# Mad Men



## Samson

5 Seasons....and a 6th coming in March...


I'm amazed there is not an entire forum here regarding the series and its political -historical implications. If you haven't seen it seasons 1-4 can be reviewed relatively cheaply on Netflix. Season 5 is available on Blueray.


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## Toro

It's amazing that this show has stayed so good for so long.  Season 5 was probably the best season yet.


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## Samson

Toro said:


> It's amazing that this show has stayed so good for so long.  Season 5 was probably the best season yet.



Obama is a fan.


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## Plasmaball

Toro said:


> It's amazing that this show has stayed so good for so long.  Season 5 was probably the best season yet.



really? I thought it was missing something.


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## Samson

Toro said:


> It's amazing that this show has stayed so good for so long.  Season 5 was probably the best season yet.



Just got through Season 5.

Thought the suicidal Jaguar scene was the best.


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## Politico

Never heard of it. Is it about the White House?


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## Delia

It's about advertising, started in the late 50's, early 60's I believe. New York, Madison Avenue.


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## Samson

See link in op


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## MikeK

I'm watching the re-runs now and looking forward to another season.  Great show.


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## Delia

MikeK said:


> I'm watching the re-runs now and looking forward to another season.  Great show.



It really is. I might have to start over from the beginning, since I stopped watching several seasons ago.


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## George Costanza

I didn't get started on Mad Men until last year.  That's usually the way I do things - ignore the series when it first comes out, let it run for five or six years, stop, and then I pick it up on reruns and watch every episode from start to finish.  I did that with both Seinfeld and The Sopranos.

I have Netflix, Vudu and Huluplus.  I was able to watch Seasons 1-4 on Netflix.  That's where Netflix stops.  Huluplus doesn't have Mad Men any more.  I didn't check Vudu and ordered Season 5 on DVD from Amazon.  38 bucks or some such.  OK - well and good.  The day after I did that, a co-worker told me that Vudu does have Season 5.  Of course, you have to pay for in on a per-episode basis, and it comes out to about the same price as the DVD's I ordered.

Anyway, I am waiting for Season 5 to arrive and will sop it all up as soon as it does.

I'm sure you all know that Robert Morse starred as J. Pierrepont Finch in "How to Succed in Business Without Really Trying" on Broadway when he was a very young man.  "How to Succeed" opened on Broadway in 1961.

The producers of Mad Men love to leave viewers hanging as to when a new season will begin.  That's what is happening this year.  Of course, there will be a Season 6.  Word is that it will commence "some time this spring," with the actual commencemnt date anticipated as being much closer to the early part of Sring than the later part.


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## George Costanza

Samson said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's amazing that this show has stayed so good for so long.  Season 5 was probably the best season yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just got through Season 5.
> 
> Thought the suicidal Jaguar scene was the best.
Click to expand...


SPOILER!!!!!


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## Samson

George Costanza said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's amazing that this show has stayed so good for so long.  Season 5 was probably the best season yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just got through Season 5.
> 
> Thought the suicidal Jaguar scene was the best.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SPOILER!!!!!
Click to expand...


No I promise I did not give anything away.

Anyway Season 6 starts in April on AMC


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## whitehall

Soaps for dopes. I find it incredible that the notoriously non-focused pop-culture can follow an adult serialized drama. It should be noted that each episode costs close to 3 million dollars to produce.


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## George Costanza

whitehall said:


> Soaps for dopes. I find it incredible that the notoriously non-focused pop-culture can follow an adult serialized drama. It should be noted that each episode costs close to 3 million dollars to produce.



Got Netflix?  Just watch Season 1, Episode 1.  Then come back and talk to us.


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## Delia

Yeah, they had me at hello, too.


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## George Costanza

Delia said:


> Yeah, they had me at hello, too.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLIZTk-T2vY



This is one of the things I like the most about MM - the way they constantly show how different the social mores were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Everyone smokes up a storm.  This plastic bag scene is CLASSIC.  Did you catch the scene where the Draper family goes on a picnic in a lovely park and, when it's over, they just leave their trash lying there on the grass?  They drink more booze than water.  Women are treated as second class citizens except when it comes to sex.

Boy, how times have changed . . . .


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## Delia

George Costanza said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they had me at hello, too.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLIZTk-T2vY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the things I like the most about MM - the way they constantly show how different the social mores were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Everyone smokes up a storm.  This plastic bag scene is CLASSIC.  Did you catch the scene where the Draper family goes on a picnic in a lovely park and, when it's over, they just leave their trash lying there on the grass?  They drink more booze than water.  Women are treated as second class citizens except when it comes to sex.
> 
> Boy, how times have changed . . . .
Click to expand...


Exactly. Like when Joan's husband raped her on the office floor because he could.


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## Delia

You know, I'm tempted to just start the series over from season one, since I've missed so much.


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## George Costanza

Delia said:


> You know, I'm tempted to just start the series over from season one, since I've missed so much.



As I said, that's what I did.  Seasons 1 through 4 are on Netflix.  I had to get DVD's for Season 5.  Haven't viewed them yet - have to do so before Season 6 kicks off.


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## Delia

Discs, or streaming?


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## TNHarley

Season 5 was the best! I hope Don goes back to his old ways! Which, by the last 2 minutes, he might be..


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## TNHarley

Delia said:


> You know, I'm tempted to just start the series over from season one, since I've missed so much.



On sundays on the AMC channel,  I think re-runs starts at 5, in order. Do not know where it is at right now, but worth checking out


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## iamwhatiseem

Never heard of it...will check it out.


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## Samson

Delia said:


> Discs, or streaming?



Streaming


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## Samson

Delia said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they had me at hello, too.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLIZTk-T2vY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the things I like the most about MM - the way they constantly show how different the social mores were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Everyone smokes up a storm.  This plastic bag scene is CLASSIC.  Did you catch the scene where the Draper family goes on a picnic in a lovely park and, when it's over, they just leave their trash lying there on the grass?  They drink more booze than water.  Women are treated as second class citizens except when it comes to sex.
> 
> Boy, how times have changed . . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. Like when Joan's husband raped her on the office floor because he could.
Click to expand...




I don't believe that scene was to demonstrate typical social behaviour.


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## Samson

George Costanza said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they had me at hello, too.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLIZTk-T2vY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the things I like the most about MM - the way they constantly show how different the social mores were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Everyone smokes up a storm.  This plastic bag scene is CLASSIC.  Did you catch the scene where the Draper family goes on a picnic in a lovely park and, when it's over, they just leave their trash lying there on the grass?  They drink more booze than water.  Women are treated as second class citizens except when it comes to sex.
> 
> Boy, how times have changed . . . .
Click to expand...


Yes, no one wears seat belts, everyone seems to be drinking WHILE driving...The smoking....THE SMOKING! Pregnate women, their doctors, people in elevators....made my skin crawl.

HOWEVER.

Everyone appears perfectly groomed in tailored clothes.


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## Delia

Samson said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the things I like the most about MM - the way they constantly show how different the social mores were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Everyone smokes up a storm.  This plastic bag scene is CLASSIC.  Did you catch the scene where the Draper family goes on a picnic in a lovely park and, when it's over, they just leave their trash lying there on the grass?  They drink more booze than water.  Women are treated as second class citizens except when it comes to sex.
> 
> Boy, how times have changed . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Like when Joan's husband raped her on the office floor because he could.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that scene was to demonstrate typical social behaviour.
Click to expand...


And I do. Women were property then. Men could do with them as they saw fit.


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## MikeK

George Costanza said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they had me at hello, too.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLIZTk-T2vY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the things I like the most about MM - the way they constantly show how different the social mores were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Everyone smokes up a storm.  This plastic bag scene is CLASSIC.  Did you catch the scene where the Draper family goes on a picnic in a lovely park and, when it's over, they just leave their trash lying there on the grass?  They drink more booze than water.  Women are treated as second class citizens except when it comes to sex.
> 
> Boy, how times have changed . . . .
Click to expand...

I've noticed that Mad Men is popular mainly with older people while younger viewers dismiss it as an irrelevant soap opera, which supports your observation.  I enjoy it because of those familiar evocations; the smoking, booze, the clothes, social attitudes, etc.


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## George Costanza

Delia said:


> You know, I'm tempted to just start the series over from season one, since I've missed so much.



So get this - the DVD's arrived a couple of days ago.  Last night, I thought I would watch the last episode of Season 4, even though I had already seen it, just to get a good start on watching the start of Season 5.  I play the last episode of Season 4.  It's the one where Don goes to California with his kids and takes his secretary along to watch over the kids while Don attends to business.  Wait a minute - they (Don and his secretary) weren't even married at this point, and I have seen a number of episodes where they ARE married.

So this morning, I put Disk 1 of the DVD series in and, after wading through what seemed like several hours of flipping commercials and hype, I finally got to episode 1 of Season 5.  It's the one that starts out with the young ad guys dropping water bombs on the group of black protesters several stories down on the street.  Seen that.  On to episode 2.  Seen that.  Episode 3 - that's where Betty finds out she has a lump on her thyroid.  Seen that.

At this point, I am thinking, WTF?  Looks like, one way or another (first run or rerun) I DID see many of the episodes of Season 5.  I will go through the DVD episode by episode.  There HAVE to be at least a couple of episodes I missed.  38 bucks, down the drain.  Grrrrr!


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## George Costanza

Delia said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Like when Joan's husband raped her on the office floor because he could.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that scene was to demonstrate typical social behaviour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I do. Women were property then. Men could do with them as they saw fit.
Click to expand...


Yes . . . . those were the days, weren't they?


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## George Costanza

In Episode 3, Season 5, we see that Betty has become very, very fat.  As I recall, this is the first episode where she is depicted as being so chubby.
There is one scene where she gets out of a bathtub and the camera shows her back.  She's HUGE.  She's got the double chin, the fat face, the whole nine yards.

How did they do that?  I'm sure the actress herself didn't actually put on all that weight, yet it looks so real.  Expert makeup artists?  Shrewd camera work?  A double?

(I really don't like Betty.  Didn't from the get go.)


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## AquaAthena

whitehall said:


> Soaps for dopes. I find it incredible that the notoriously non-focused pop-culture can follow an adult serialized drama. It should be noted that each episode costs close to 3 million dollars to produce.



I love this show and am watching reruns until April 7th when season 6 is _supposed_ to air.

George, season 5 is available for streaming at Amazon. $1.99 an ep. It was awesome. I loved the cliffhanger and I say, "he will."


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## AquaAthena

George Costanza said:


> In Episode 3, Season 5, we see that Betty has become very, very fat.  As I recall, this is the first episode where she is depicted as being so chubby.
> There is one scene where she gets out of a bathtub and the camera shows her back.  She's HUGE.  She's got the double chin, the fat face, the whole nine yards.
> 
> How did they do that?  I'm sure the actress herself didn't actually put on all that weight, yet it looks so real.  Expert makeup artists?  Shrewd camera work?  A double?
> 
> (I really don't like Betty.  Didn't from the get go.)



She was, in reality, pregnant.


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## George Costanza

AquaAthena said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Episode 3, Season 5, we see that Betty has become very, very fat.  As I recall, this is the first episode where she is depicted as being so chubby.
> There is one scene where she gets out of a bathtub and the camera shows her back.  She's HUGE.  She's got the double chin, the fat face, the whole nine yards.
> 
> How did they do that?  I'm sure the actress herself didn't actually put on all that weight, yet it looks so real.  Expert makeup artists?  Shrewd camera work?  A double?
> 
> (I really don't like Betty.  Didn't from the get go.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was, in reality, pregnant.
Click to expand...


No.  Really?  Are you sure of that or are you just guessing?

Edit note: I did some Googling.  Looks like her chubbiness was due to POST-birth weight gain.

http://www.huliq.com/10061/mad-mens-betty-draper-fat-or-fat-suit

Do you have other information?


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## AquaAthena

George Costanza said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Episode 3, Season 5, we see that Betty has become very, very fat.  As I recall, this is the first episode where she is depicted as being so chubby.
> There is one scene where she gets out of a bathtub and the camera shows her back.  She's HUGE.  She's got the double chin, the fat face, the whole nine yards.
> 
> How did they do that?  I'm sure the actress herself didn't actually put on all that weight, yet it looks so real.  Expert makeup artists?  Shrewd camera work?  A double?
> 
> (I really don't like Betty.  Didn't from the get go.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was, in reality, pregnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  Really?  Are you sure of that or are you just guessing?
Click to expand...


If I were guessing, I would have said that, George.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...line-concealing-January-Joness-pregnancy.html


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## iamwhatiseem

Watched the first episode - interesting. Will watch more.
I was born in 1965, so obviously the time period is before my time - however the large gap between women and men and the treatment of women in the workplace when I began my career in the late 80's was still similar to how it was in this show, just not quite as blatant. It was nothing for guys to comment all kinds of sexual innuendos to "office girls" back then (80's)....not now.


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## Samson

whitehall said:


> Soaps for dopes. I find it incredible that the notoriously non-focused pop-culture can follow an adult serialized drama. It should be noted that each episode costs close to 3 million dollars to produce.



Why should we note the production cost per episode?


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## Samson

iamwhatiseem said:


> Watched the first episode - interesting. Will watch more.
> I was born in 1965, so obviously the time period is before my time - however the large gap between women and men and the treatment of women in the workplace when I began my career in the late 80's was still similar to how it was in this show, just not quite as blatant. It was nothing for guys to comment all kinds of sexual innuendos to "office girls" back then (80's)....not now.



Actually, the show protrays much more sexism than innuendo...you'll see: The behaviours toward women were astonishingly appalling....almost Clintonesque.


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## Samson

George Costanza said:


> In Episode 3, Season 5, we see that Betty has become very, very fat.  As I recall, this is the first episode where she is depicted as being so chubby.
> There is one scene where she gets out of a bathtub and the camera shows her back.  She's HUGE.  She's got the double chin, the fat face, the whole nine yards.
> 
> How did they do that?  I'm sure the actress herself didn't actually put on all that weight, yet it looks so real.  Expert makeup artists?  Shrewd camera work?  A double?
> 
> (I really don't like Betty.  Didn't from the get go.)



Both Betty and Peggy get fat for different reasons: With Betty, the purpose seems to be to develop the plot around how bored she becomes after....um.....

Ok I won't spoil anything.


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## George Costanza

Samson said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watched the first episode - interesting. Will watch more.
> I was born in 1965, so obviously the time period is before my time - however the large gap between women and men and the treatment of women in the workplace when I began my career in the late 80's was still similar to how it was in this show, just not quite as blatant. It was nothing for guys to comment all kinds of sexual innuendos to "office girls" back then (80's)....not now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the show protrays much more sexism than innuendo...you'll see: The behaviours toward women were astonishingly appalling....almost Clintonesque.
Click to expand...


Here, here . . . Order!  This is a Mad Men thread, not a political thread.


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## Samson

George Costanza said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watched the first episode - interesting. Will watch more.
> I was born in 1965, so obviously the time period is before my time - however the large gap between women and men and the treatment of women in the workplace when I began my career in the late 80's was still similar to how it was in this show, just not quite as blatant. It was nothing for guys to comment all kinds of sexual innuendos to "office girls" back then (80's)....not now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the show protrays much more sexism than innuendo...you'll see: The behaviours toward women were astonishingly appalling....almost Clintonesque.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here, here . . . Order!  This is a Mad Men thread, not a political thread.
Click to expand...


Well, if you can think of a better term for the expectation that females will sexually service men in positions of professional authority, I'll be happy to apply it.

While you're at it....

Define "is."


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## George Costanza

Samson said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the show protrays much more sexism than innuendo...you'll see: The behaviours toward women were astonishingly appalling....almost Clintonesque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, here . . . Order!  This is a Mad Men thread, not a political thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you can think of a better term for the expectation that females will sexually service men in positions of professional authority, I'll be happy to apply it.
> 
> While you're at it....
> 
> Define "is."
Click to expand...


Well played.  Twas ever thus, hey?  And I refer not only to the expectation, but also to the reality.


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## George Costanza

Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms.  I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.

Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men.  Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it.  Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is."  As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's.  It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then.  Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.

At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that."  This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart."  Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall.  This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.

I love anachronisms in movies.  You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff.  Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920.  Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."

Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .


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## Samson

George Costanza said:


> Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms.  I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.
> 
> Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men.  Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it.  Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is."  As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's.  It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then.  Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.
> 
> At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that."  This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart."  Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall.  This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.
> 
> I love anachronisms in movies.  You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff.  Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920.  Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."
> 
> Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .





The only anachronism I've caught is, "Look at you! You,..."

All the characters say this. I was, and am still not sure if this is a REGIONAL thing, or a PERIOD thing, or both...

Look at you! You, all dressed up.


My favorite character is Roger. My favorite line is:

Roger Sterling: Remember Don  when God closes a door, he opens a dress.


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## MikeK

George Costanza said:


> Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms.  I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.
> 
> Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men.  Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it.  Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is."  As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's.  It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then.  Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.


I think you're right.  Good observation.



> At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that."  This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart."  Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall.  This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.
> 
> I love anachronisms in movies.  You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff.  Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920.  Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."


I've always liked Tony Curtis because his speech mannerism is so perfectly Brooklyn.  His good looks were such as to transcend his Brooklyn accent, which was present even in his part in _Spartacus._ 



> Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .


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## MikeK

Samson said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another fun thing to do with Mad Men is keep an eye out for the anacronisms.  I was catching up on Season 5 last night (Episodes 8 and 9, I believe), and caught two in the same episode.
> 
> Joan is talking with Peggy about their relationships with men.  Joan has just had her husband leave her - or she kicked him out, whichever way you want to look at it.  Of all this, she says, philisophically: "It is what it is."  As I recall, "it is what it is" was not part of our language in the 1960's.  It is quite popular today, and has been for some time, but not back then.  Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.
> 
> At another point in one of these two episodes, one of the characters (I think it was Don) said, "Sorry about that."  This expression (of which I am totally sick, by the way) came to us from Agent Maxwell Smart in the t.v. series, "Get Smart."  Trouble is, that series didn't start until 1965 and the expression really didn't catch on until several years later, as I recall.  This is a close one, but I think it was a bit too early for the time frame of the episode I was watching.
> 
> I love anachronisms in movies.  You know, a western which has to be set in the late 1800's or early 1900's with a couple of jet streams up in the sky as the hero rides up on the bluff.  Or young women talking Valley Talk in a flick that is supposed to be set in 1920.  Or (the classic) Tony Curtis in full, 15th Century knight armor, pointing with his lance to a distant castle and intoning: "Yondah lies da castle of my foddah."
> 
> Not a bad idea for a thread of its own - anachronisms we have seen . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only anachronism I've caught is, "Look at you! You,..."
> 
> All the characters say this. I was, and am still not sure if this is a REGIONAL thing, or a PERIOD thing, or both...
> 
> Look at you! You, all dressed up.
> 
> 
> My favorite character is Roger. My favorite line is:
> 
> Roger Sterling: Remember Don  when God closes a door, he opens a dress.
Click to expand...

I like Roger, too.  He is about as smooth as it gets.  The perfect Madison Avenue figure in every way.

Re: anachronisms; except for the most blatant of them I suppose they always get past me.


----------



## George Costanza

MikeK said:


> I've always liked Tony Curtis because his speech mannerism is so perfectly Brooklyn.  His good looks were such as to transcend his Brooklyn accent, which was present even in his part in _Spartacus._



Just an aside - I think Ray Liota is the living reincarnation of Tony Curtis.  They don't look exactly alike, but it's very close.  Their mannerisms, way of talking - Liota really reminds me of a present-day Tony Curtis.

Interestingly, the "younder lies da castle of me foddah" story is largly urban myth, I Googled it, and it would appear that Tony Curtis never said it or, if he did, it wasn't anywhere near what the quote has turned into.  Sorry, I don't have time now to link the Web sites on it, but if you have time, just Google the quote and read about it.  Interesting stuff.


----------



## Samson

George Costanza said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've always liked Tony Curtis because his speech mannerism is so perfectly Brooklyn.  His good looks were such as to transcend his Brooklyn accent, which was present even in his part in _Spartacus._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just an aside - I think Ray Liota is the living reincarnation of Tony Curtis.  They don't look exactly alike, but it's very close.  Their mannerisms, way of talking - Liota really reminds me of a present-day Tony Curtis.
> 
> Interestingly, the "younder lies da castle of me foddah" story is largly urban myth, I Googled it, and it would appear that Tony Curtis never said it or, if he did, it wasn't anywhere near what the quote has turned into.  Sorry, I don't have time now to link the Web sites on it, but if you have time, just Google the quote and read about it.  Interesting stuff.
Click to expand...


Tony Curtis, Sean Connery, Sinatra, Martin...I could go on, but we all know that these guys added a certain pinache to their characters which simply cannot be found within modern characters....perhaps this is why Mad Men is so popular: Roger's and Don's characters symbolize traits that we miss.

Of course, there's always the other side of the coin. I understand Dean Martin was one of the greatest guys we could imagine, then and now. Sinatra....not so much. 

Tony Curtis definately had his demons, and was lucky not to have inherited Schizophenia (his mother and brother were diagnosed....you can imagine his homelife), 6 marriages, and hospitalization for alcohol and drug abuse, certainly speak to his qualifications to the Mad Men's club.


----------



## MikeK

George Costanza said:


> Interestingly, the "younder lies da castle of me foddah" story is largly urban myth, I Googled it, and it would appear that Tony Curtis never said it or, if he did, it wasn't anywhere near what the quote has turned into.  Sorry, I don't have time now to link the Web sites on it, but if you have time, just Google the quote and read about it.  Interesting stuff.


I never heard that particular barbarism, either.  But in spite of the fact that producers of Curtis' movies hired a speech coach to polish his pronunciations, he was incurably Brooklyn and nothing short of a five year residency in London would eliminate his unmistakable Flatbush inflection.


----------



## MikeK

Samson said:


> Of course, there's always the other side of the coin. I understand Dean Martin was one of the greatest guys we could imagine, then and now. Sinatra....not so much.


That's what I've heard (or read).  Dean Martin was the archetypal _nice guy_ while Sinatra was an arrogant, nasty, snob.


----------



## George Costanza

MikeK said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, there's always the other side of the coin. I understand Dean Martin was one of the greatest guys we could imagine, then and now. Sinatra....not so much.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I've heard (or read).  Dean Martin was the archetypal _nice guy_ while Sinatra was an arrogant, nasty, snob.
Click to expand...


You guys both have this one right - at least, based on what I have heard about Dino and Sinatra as well as my personal impressions gleaned from just watching them over the years.


----------



## George Costanza

I love Roger's character as well.  Getting head from Don's mother-in-law at a posh awards dinner.  Priceless.

A common thread among all of these types of series is super excellent casting.  Seinfeld.  The Sopranos.  Mad Men.  Downton Abbey.  All of them are SUPERBLY cast in every significant role.


----------



## Samson

George Costanza said:


> I love Roger's character as well.  Getting head from Don's mother-in-law at a posh awards dinner.  Priceless.
> 
> A common thread among all of these types of series is super excellent casting.  Seinfeld.  The Sopranos.  Mad Men.  Downton Abbey.  All of them are SUPERBLY cast in every significant role.



I found the head scene a little disturbing because Don's daughter watched.


----------



## Samson

George Costanza said:


> I love Roger's character as well.  Getting head from Don's mother-in-law at a posh awards dinner.  Priceless.
> 
> A common thread among all of these types of series is super excellent casting.  Seinfeld.  The Sopranos.  Mad Men.  Downton Abbey.  All of them are SUPERBLY cast in every significant role.



Interesting....when I think about it, none of the main characters are 20-somethings either.

Perhaps you must have _developed_ a character to _really play_ a character.


----------



## George Costanza

Season 5 - Episode 12: Lane commits suicide.  The closing song chosen for that episode is "Butchie's Tune" by the Lovin' Spoonful.  It plays as Don is allowing Sally's friend, Glen, to drive his (Don's) new Jaguar as he takes the kid home.  Obviously, the song has more to do with Lane's suicide than Don's being a good guy by letting Glen drive the car.

I didn't pay as much attention to the music of the 1960's as I should have.  Judging by this great tune, that was probably a mistake.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B56XwHiDrWc]The Lovin' Spoonful - 11 - Butchie's Tune (by EarpJohn) - YouTube[/ame]

While we're on the subject of the closing songs for each of the Mad Men episodes, how about the closer for Episode 13 of Season 5, the last show of the season?  Nancy Sinatra sings "You Only Live Twice" as Don sits at the bar, being approcahed by a beautiful woman, interested in more than just conversation.  I felt right from the start that Jon Hamm would have been a better James Bond than just about anyone who ever played the role - yes, including Sean Connery, believe it or not.  (OK, maybe not Sean Connery, but certainly better than any of the other Bonds.)

An obvious attempt to play on Hamm's Bond-like appearance.  Very well done, I thought.

Here, this should keep Mad Men fans busy for a while:

http://www.amctv.com/shows/mad-men/ultimate-fan-game/all-quizzes


----------



## Samson

George Costanza said:


> Season 5 - Episode 12: Lane commits suicide.  The closing song chosen for that episode is "Butchie's Tune" by the Lovin' Spoonful.  It plays as Don is allowing Sally's friend, Glen, to drive his (Don's) new Jaguar as he takes the kid home.  Obviously, the song has more to do with Lane's suicide than Don's being a good guy by letting Glen drive the car.



Yes, obviously the song can easily be about Lane's suicide, which let's face it, was amusing for several reasons:

1. The failed suicide attempt in the infamous mechanically inferiour Jaguar
2. The ultimate hypocracy of Don (Dick) asking for the resignation of Lane because Lane pretended to be Don, forging his signature
3. The astonishing frequency of people in Don's life hanging themselves. Lane is #2 after Don's half brother. I predict we will see a lot of Lane's ghost season 6.
4. Amazingly, Don is allowing Glen to drive...pretending to be something he is not: an adult and licensed driver, while his conscious is ....Where? Dead?.....



IMHO the song is also very much about _*Don's conscious*_

Don't give me a place for my memories to stay
 Don't show me an inn or a light to find the way
 I ain't got time for the things on your mind
 And I'm leavin´ you today on my way

Please don't you cry when the time to part has come
 It's not for what you've said or anything that you've done
I gotta go anywhere anytime
And I'm leavin´, gone today, on my way 
I'm goin´ home

 Please don't stick around to see me when I'm feelin´ low
 Don't pass the cards to me to deal the crashing blow
 I'll leave and close the door so you won't see me go
 When I'm leavinÂ´, gone today, I'm on my way

I'll walk away like a shadow in the night
 I won't give cause for you to feel we have to fight
 I'll make it easy so that you won't really quite 
Know I'm leavin´ you today on my way
 And now I'm going




George Costanza said:


> While we're on the subject of the closing songs for each of the Mad Men episodes, how about the closer for Episode 13 of Season 5, the last show of the season?  Nancy Sinatra sings "You Only Live Twice" as Don sits at the bar, being approcahed by a beautiful woman, interested in more than just conversation.  I felt right from the start that Jon Hamm would have been a better James Bond than just about anyone who ever played the role - yes, including Sean Connery, believe it or not.  (OK, maybe not Sean Connery, but certainly better than any of the other Bonds.)
> 
> An obvious attempt to play on Hamm's Bond-like appearance.  Very well done, I thought.



I think you must be a male adult from 1960 to qualify to be James Bond.

Sean Connery ACTUALLY was THE real deal: Jon Hamm ACTS like the real deal. Both make terrific Bonds.

Don is actually being aproched by TWO women at the bar, thus making "You Only Live Twice" have the double (pun intended) sexual context, as well as the promise of another affair in which Don will need _YET ANOTHER IDENTITY_, and another season of Mad Men.


You only live twice or so it seems
*One life for yourself and one for your dreams* 
You drift through the years and life seems tame
 Till one dream appears and love is it's name
 And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
 Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone


This dream is for you, so pay the price
 Make one dream come true, you only live twice
 And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
 Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone
 This dream is for you, so pay the price

Make one dream come true, you only live twice


----------



## George Costanza

Samson said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> Season 5 - Episode 12: Lane commits suicide.  The closing song chosen for that episode is "Butchie's Tune" by the Lovin' Spoonful.  It plays as Don is allowing Sally's friend, Glen, to drive his (Don's) new Jaguar as he takes the kid home.  Obviously, the song has more to do with Lane's suicide than Don's being a good guy by letting Glen drive the car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, obviously the song can easily be about Lane's suicide, which let's face it, was amusing for several reasons:
> 
> 1. The failed suicide attempt in the infamous mechanically inferiour Jaguar
> 2. The ultimate hypocracy of Don (Dick) asking for the resignation of Lane because Lane pretended to be Don, forging his signature
> 3. The astonishing frequency of people in Don's life hanging themselves. Lane is #2 after Don's half brother. I predict we will see a lot of Lane's ghost season 6.
> 4. Amazingly, Don is allowing Glen to drive...pretending to be something he is not: an adult and licensed driver, while his conscious is ....Where? Dead?.....
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO the song is also very much about _*Don's conscious*_
> 
> Don't give me a place for my memories to stay
> Don't show me an inn or a light to find the way
> I ain't got time for the things on your mind
> And I'm leavin´ you today on my way
> 
> Please don't you cry when the time to part has come
> It's not for what you've said or anything that you've done
> I gotta go anywhere anytime
> And I'm leavin´, gone today, on my way
> I'm goin´ home
> 
> Please don't stick around to see me when I'm feelin´ low
> Don't pass the cards to me to deal the crashing blow
> I'll leave and close the door so you won't see me go
> When I'm leavinÂ´, gone today, I'm on my way
> 
> I'll walk away like a shadow in the night
> I won't give cause for you to feel we have to fight
> I'll make it easy so that you won't really quite
> Know I'm leavin´ you today on my way
> And now I'm going
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> While we're on the subject of the closing songs for each of the Mad Men episodes, how about the closer for Episode 13 of Season 5, the last show of the season?  Nancy Sinatra sings "You Only Live Twice" as Don sits at the bar, being approcahed by a beautiful woman, interested in more than just conversation.  I felt right from the start that Jon Hamm would have been a better James Bond than just about anyone who ever played the role - yes, including Sean Connery, believe it or not.  (OK, maybe not Sean Connery, but certainly better than any of the other Bonds.)
> 
> An obvious attempt to play on Hamm's Bond-like appearance.  Very well done, I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you must be a male adult from 1960 to qualify to be James Bond.
> 
> Sean Connery ACTUALLY was THE real deal: Jon Hamm ACTS like the real deal. Both make terrific Bonds.
> 
> Don is actually being aproched by TWO women at the bar, thus making "You Only Live Twice" have the double (pun intended) sexual context, as well as the promise of another affair in which Don will need _YET ANOTHER IDENTITY_, and another season of Mad Men.
> 
> 
> You only live twice or so it seems
> *One life for yourself and one for your dreams*
> You drift through the years and life seems tame
> Till one dream appears and love is it's name
> And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
> Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone
> 
> 
> This dream is for you, so pay the price
> Make one dream come true, you only live twice
> And love is a stranger who'll beckon you on
> Don't think of the danger or the stranger is gone
> This dream is for you, so pay the price
> 
> Make one dream come true, you only live twice
Click to expand...


You show remarkable insight into the nuances of this show.  I am impressed.

As an aside - speaking of Hamm as Bond, I'm sure you are aware that Hamm made a brief appearance in some chick flick ("Bridesmaids") where he played an absolute male bimbo; just a total idiot.  It was so completely out of character for him, it not only fell flat for me, I actually found it repulsive.  (Not that I watch chick flicks, of course . . . ahem . . . )


----------



## MikeK

Samson said:


> [...]
> 
> Tony Curtis definately had his demons, and was lucky not to have inherited Schizophenia (his mother and brother were diagnosed....you can imagine his homelife), 6 marriages, and hospitalization for alcohol and drug abuse, certainly speak to his qualifications to the Mad Men's club.


I didn't know that about his parents, or the six marriages, etc.  

I also like his daughter, Jamie Lee Curtis, very much.  She seems to be a very nice person off camera, and it comes across in the characters she plays -- her role in the movie, _My Girl,_ being the best example (in my opinion).


----------



## George Costanza

Mad Men Theme . . . . with a twist . . . 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEj0z0maxzM]Mad Men Theme Song ... With a Twist - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Samson

George Costanza said:


> Mad Men Theme . . . . with a twist . . .
> 
> Mad Men Theme Song ... With a Twist - YouTube



I need an Old Fashioned.






I'm surprised how many bartenders know exactly what I'm talking about, and also that the drink is actually pretty good.


----------



## George Costanza

All right, gang - new season getting started, two episodes in.  Time to start analyzing, praising, criticizing and generally kibitizing.  I'll lead off:

So - Don's banging the doc's wife, I see.  Got to admit, that one snuck up on me.  Here everything's going along fine and then, all of a sudden, Don is walking down this strange, dark hallway, a female grabs him by the hand and leads him somewhere and - viola! - there he is in bed with the doc's wife.

How in the hell did that get started?  Shouldn't there have been some kind of lead-in?  You know - glances exchanged over cocktails while both spouses are also present, a sly remark made in passing, SOME kind of hint to let us know what was coming?

Or did I miss it?  Talk to me, Madmen people!


----------



## Zoom-boing

George Costanza said:


> You show remarkable insight into the nuances of this show.  I am impressed.
> 
> As an aside - speaking of Hamm as Bond, I'm sure you are aware that Hamm made a brief appearance in some chick flick ("Bridesmaids") where he played an absolute male bimbo; just a total idiot.  *It was so completely out of character for him, it not only fell flat for me, I actually found it repulsiv*e.  (Not that I watch chick flicks, of course . . . ahem . . . )




Jon Hamm is very funny, irl.  He's been on 30 Rock and SNL several times.  He's nothing like Don Draper.


----------



## Trajan

I was wondering where they were going with the 2 hour premiere, I have to say they did it nicely,  they framed the season to come.


I already like this better than last season, in that the last closing scene with Don in bed with the Doctors wife got us right back down to it, Dons war with himself and the better angels of his nature......hes a cad struggling with himself, a guy who cannot or refuses to remain happy as he recognizes no limits to his behavior.


----------



## Zoom-boing

George Costanza said:


> All right, gang - new season getting started, two episodes in.  Time to start analyzing, praising, criticizing and generally kibitizing.  I'll lead off:
> 
> So - Don's banging the doc's wife, I see.  Got to admit, that one snuck up on me.  Here everything's going along fine and then, all of a sudden, Don is walking down this strange, dark hallway, a female grabs him by the hand and leads him somewhere and - viola! - there he is in bed with the doc's wife.
> 
> How in the hell did that get started?  Shouldn't there have been some kind of lead-in?  You know - glances exchanged over cocktails while both spouses are also present, a sly remark made in passing, SOME kind of hint to let us know what was coming?
> 
> Or did I miss it?  Talk to me, Madmen people!



Did you think the first episode in this season was weird?  The entire episode I was kind of waiting for it to start and felt that most of the scenes were all individual and disjointed, rather than part of a whole (if that makes sense). And who the heck was sleeping on the couch at SCDP?  Who is the violin playing kid and why does Betty care enough about her to go chasing after her?  And since when does Betty let Sally call her Betty, rather than mom?  Is this the same Betty who locked Sally in the closet for smoking??

I hate that the show is leaving the 60's and entering the70's, fashion/style wise.  Blech.  It was ugly then and it's still ugly.


----------



## Trajan

Zoom-boing said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> All right, gang - new season getting started, two episodes in.  Time to start analyzing, praising, criticizing and generally kibitizing.  I'll lead off:
> 
> So - Don's banging the doc's wife, I see.  Got to admit, that one snuck up on me.  Here everything's going along fine and then, all of a sudden, Don is walking down this strange, dark hallway, a female grabs him by the hand and leads him somewhere and - viola! - there he is in bed with the doc's wife.
> 
> How in the hell did that get started?  Shouldn't there have been some kind of lead-in?  You know - glances exchanged over cocktails while both spouses are also present, a sly remark made in passing, SOME kind of hint to let us know what was coming?
> 
> Or did I miss it?  Talk to me, Madmen people!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you think the first episode in this season was weird?  The entire episode I was kind of waiting for it to start and felt that most of the scenes were all individual and disjointed, rather than part of a whole (if that makes sense). And who the heck was sleeping on the couch at SCDP?  Who is the violin playing kid and why does Betty care enough about her to go chasing after her?  And since when does Betty let Sally call her Betty, rather than mom?  Is this the same Betty who locked Sally in the closet for smoking??
> 
> I hate that the show is leaving the 60's and entering the70's, fashion/style wise.  Blech.  It was ugly then and it's still ugly.
Click to expand...


C my post


----------



## AquaAthena

George Costanza said:


> All right, gang - new season getting started, two episodes in.  Time to start analyzing, praising, criticizing and generally kibitizing.  I'll lead off:
> 
> So - Don's banging the doc's wife, I see.  Got to admit, that one snuck up on me.  Here everything's going along fine and then, all of a sudden, Don is walking down this strange, dark hallway, a female grabs him by the hand and leads him somewhere and - viola! - there he is in bed with the doc's wife.
> 
> How in the hell did that get started?  Shouldn't there have been some kind of lead-in?  You know - glances exchanged over cocktails while both spouses are also present, a sly remark made in passing, SOME kind of hint to let us know what was coming?
> 
> Or did I miss it?  Talk to me, Madmen people!



Okay, George, I'll talk you. 

I'm done with Don Draper and Mad Men. The first double ep. and the second one, left me with negative feelings for many reasons. I watched the first five seasons TWICE and really looked forward to the same consistency but alas, it hasn't happened for me. None of the veteran characters even looked as they did months ago and the new characters looked boring. They should have wrapped this show after the 5th season, in my opinion. 

I have picked up on two others to replace Mad Men.

ARROW is something I am enjoying very much and so is The Americans. Happy trails Don. I will not miss you but will miss Roger....

The Americans:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtPw01n3HWU]The Americans S01 Sneak Peek [Official] - YouTube[/ame]

Arrow:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViFb0paKdgg]CW - Arrow - Trailer - YouTube[/ame]

And of course if one can find when Revenge is on, I will still watch that.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Roger is one of the best characters _evah_ ... and wildly under used.


----------



## Samson

AquaAthena said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> All right, gang - new season getting started, two episodes in.  Time to start analyzing, praising, criticizing and generally kibitizing.  I'll lead off:
> 
> So - Don's banging the doc's wife, I see.  Got to admit, that one snuck up on me.  Here everything's going along fine and then, all of a sudden, Don is walking down this strange, dark hallway, a female grabs him by the hand and leads him somewhere and - viola! - there he is in bed with the doc's wife.
> 
> How in the hell did that get started?  Shouldn't there have been some kind of lead-in?  You know - glances exchanged over cocktails while both spouses are also present, a sly remark made in passing, SOME kind of hint to let us know what was coming?
> 
> Or did I miss it?  Talk to me, Madmen people!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, George, I'll talk you.
> 
> I'm done with Don Draper and Mad Men. The first double ep. and the second one, left me with negative feelings for many reasons. I watched the first five seasons TWICE and really looked forward to the same consistency but alas, it hasn't happened for me. None of the veteran characters even looked as they did months ago and the new characters looked boring. They should have wrapped this show after the 5th season, in my opinion.
> 
> I have picked up on two others to replace Mad Men.
> 
> ARROW is something I am enjoying very much and so is The Americans. Happy trails Don. I will not miss you but will miss Roger....
> 
> And of course if one can find when Revenge is on, I will still watch that.
Click to expand...


I'm astonished that anyone could watch 5 seasons TWICE.

Could it be......Burnout? Maybe?

I don't know. I watched the season opener, and was pissed off that I couldn't program to record more episodes in advance. Now I'm not even sure I recorded the second episode of this season, AND worse, I'm not sure I care.

I agree that the opener seemed to have been written by everyone and anyone that wanted credits to role with their name. Why would Don vomit at Roger's Mom's funeral? Who is the guy that is stalking him? And like someone mentioned What's up with Betty accusing her husband of wanting to screw around with his niece(?). I found it SHOCKING that Betty would talk about this: totally out of character.

Perhaps the disjointed plot is supposed to characterise the societal movement from the 60's into the 70's....A time of chaos, generally and particularly...the stage is set: 


Anything Goes.


----------



## George Costanza

Samson said:


> What's up with Betty accusing her husband of wanting to screw around with his niece(?). I found it SHOCKING that Betty would talk about this: totally out of character.



That's the one that stuck out for me.  TOTALLY out of character for Betty.  To boot, we had seen no indication whatsoever that Betty's hubby was lusting after the niece.  And, in passing, the niece isn't that good looking anyway, not that this would be relevant to a child molestor, which I don't think Betty's husband is.

I agree with all who have commented negatively on the season opener.  Disjointed describes it quite well.  But I, for one, am most certainly not giving up on Madmen.  I suspect, as you, that much will be tied up in future episodes.

I thought Don's line about "wanting to stop doing this" was a good one, although I'm not sure that I even want Don to have a conscience.  So far, he's done just fine for me without one.


----------



## Zoom-boing

Violin girl is Henry's niece?  Are you sure?  I thought she was a neighbor/friend of Sally's.  Ewww, Betty was telling him to go rape her.  wtf?


----------



## Samson

Zoom-boing said:


> Violin girl is Henry's niece?  Are you sure?  I thought she was a neighbor/friend of Sally's.  Ewww, Betty was telling him to go rape her.  wtf?



I'm not sure.

But I am sure Betty volunteered to hold down violin girl's arms while her husband raped the girl.



WEIRD!!


----------



## Samson

George Costanza said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's up with Betty accusing her husband of wanting to screw around with his niece(?). I found it SHOCKING that Betty would talk about this: totally out of character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the one that stuck out for me.  TOTALLY out of character for Betty.  To boot, we had seen no indication whatsoever that Betty's hubby was lusting after the niece.  And, in passing, the niece isn't that good looking anyway, not that this would be relevant to a child molestor, which I don't think Betty's husband is.
> 
> I agree with all who have commented negatively on the season opener.  Disjointed describes it quite well.  But I, for one, am most certainly not giving up on Madmen.  I suspect, as you, that much will be tied up in future episodes.
> 
> I thought Don's line about "wanting to stop doing this" was a good one, although I'm not sure that I even want Don to have a conscience.  So far, he's done just fine for me without one.
Click to expand...


In the next episode we see why Don is a little over-sexed.

After his father commits suicide, he and his adoptive mother move into a bordello where he watches as his pregnant adoptive mother is forced to have sex with the pimp. As we recall that Don's biological mother was a prostitute his father knocked up, the scene is darkly ironic.

Thus, Don learns a lot about women during his formative adolescence.....


----------



## Trajan

the Americans


----------



## George Costanza

Samson said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's up with Betty accusing her husband of wanting to screw around with his niece(?). I found it SHOCKING that Betty would talk about this: totally out of character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the one that stuck out for me.  TOTALLY out of character for Betty.  To boot, we had seen no indication whatsoever that Betty's hubby was lusting after the niece.  And, in passing, the niece isn't that good looking anyway, not that this would be relevant to a child molestor, which I don't think Betty's husband is.
> 
> I agree with all who have commented negatively on the season opener.  Disjointed describes it quite well.  But I, for one, am most certainly not giving up on Madmen.  I suspect, as you, that much will be tied up in future episodes.
> 
> I thought Don's line about "wanting to stop doing this" was a good one, although I'm not sure that I even want Don to have a conscience.  So far, he's done just fine for me without one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the next episode we see why Don is a little over-sexed.
> 
> After his father commits suicide, he and his adoptive mother move into a bordello where he watches as his pregnant adoptive mother is forced to have sex with the pimp. As we recall that Don's biological mother was a prostitute his father knocked up, the scene is darkly ironic.
> 
> Thus, Don learns a lot about women during his formative adolescence.....
Click to expand...


Thanks.  Hate to admit this, but I didn't have the slightest idea as to what that was all about.  I don't do flashbacks very well.  I was wondering - why are they just tossing this seemingly unrelated stuff in here with whore houses, strange looking people, etc.?


----------



## George Costanza

Not too crazy about Episode 3.  Again, a little disjointed without good seque between event lines.


----------



## George Costanza

Several days ago, Christina Hendricks (Joan) was the guest on "The Daily Show."  One of the points she made was to emphasize how "Mad Men" is a lot about consequences - the consequences of smoking, drinking, lusting, etc.  We get to see how these various activities affect the various people involved in the plot, i.e., consquences.

She also commented on how the way women are treated today isn't really all that much better than back in the 1960's.  Not sure I agree with that one - I know a doctor who got sued because he addressed a group of women in his office as "gals."  Seems to me women are doing just fine in the War of the Sexes these days.  But that's another issue . . .


----------



## Zoom-boing

George Costanza said:


> Several days ago, Christina Hendricks (Joan) was the guest on "The Daily Show."  One of the points she made was to emphasize how "Mad Men" is a lot about consequences - the consequences of smoking, drinking, lusting, etc.  We get to see how these various activities affect the various people involved in the plot, i.e., consquences.
> 
> She also commented on how the way women are treated today isn't really all that much better than back in the 1960's.  Not sure I agree with that one - *I know a doctor who got sued because he addressed a group of women in his office as "gals." * Seems to me women are doing just fine in the War of the Sexes these days.  But that's another issue . . .



For real?  What a bunch of whiners.  People really need to grow a thicker skin.


----------



## editec

MikeK said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they had me at hello, too.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLIZTk-T2vY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the things I like the most about MM - the way they constantly show how different the social mores were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Everyone smokes up a storm.  This plastic bag scene is CLASSIC.  Did you catch the scene where the Draper family goes on a picnic in a lovely park and, when it's over, they just leave their trash lying there on the grass?  They drink more booze than water.  Women are treated as second class citizens except when it comes to sex.
> 
> Boy, how times have changed . . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've noticed that Mad Men is popular mainly with older people while younger viewers dismiss it as an irrelevant soap opera, which supports your observation.  I enjoy it because of those familiar evocations; the smoking, booze, the clothes, social attitudes, etc.
Click to expand...



I suspect that is because we REMEMBER that period and marvel at how well this show has modeled itself AND THE BEHAVIOR OF THE CHARACTERS, with that time gone by.

More typically when a period piece is done, the characters live in that period, but their POVs are modern.

In this case, the people THINK like WE THOUGHT and act out their values in the way WE REMEMBER ourselves acting out.

Being able to replicate not only the fashions of the time, but the Zietgeist of the time?

That _is_ rather impressive.

And then too, there's the fact that the plot actually makes sense, the characters are three dimensional..that too makes MM one of the best thing ever done on TV.


----------



## George Costanza

Any good series (and there are a lot of them these days) always leaves you wondering what's going to happen in the next episode.  You can't wait for a week (or whatever) to go by, so more can be revealed.  I remember feeling that way with The Sopranos.  I very much feel that way with Mad Men.

Good observation there, Edit, about younger folks not really being able to identify with Mad Men.  I agree.


----------



## George Costanza

Here is an interesting Web site that offers up 18, Mad Men anacronisms.  As the article points out, anacronisms are few and far between in this great series, but they are there.  Take a look:

18 Mad Men Anachronisms Spotted by the Internet -- Vulture


----------



## PredFan

Two words:

Christina Hendricks

'nuff said right there.


----------



## George Costanza

On the topic of anacronisms in Mad Men - I have noticed that several of the characters will sometimes use the phrase, "Sorry about that."  

That (annoying) phrase began with the character of Maxwell Smart in the 1960's television series, "Get Smart," which ran for 5 years from 1965 to 1970.  OK, I know that Mad Men is set in the 1960's - but I swear I heard the phrase used in what I am pretty sure were a couple of pre-1965 episodes.

Regardless, "sorry about that" is with us to this day.  You hear people use it all the time.  It has become a classic, non-apoology, because it trivializes whatever wrong has just been committed and makes it clear that the offending person does not consider what he/she just did as anything that _really_ deserves an apology.

It is currently very near the top of my "most annoying expressions" list, just below "no problem" as a substitute for "you're welcome."


----------



## Mr Natural

What the heck happened to Bets?


----------



## Zoom-boing

Mr Clean said:


> What the heck happened to Bets?



She done and gots herself a bad case of the chubbs.

Watch, Henry will get the Senate seat and she will slim down.  Pretty sure that's all padding and makeup.  Pretty good though.

Oh, and she somehow got sane too. No more locking Sally in the closet or Betty shooting pigeons.  Bummer.


----------



## Samson

Zoom-boing said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the heck happened to Bets?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She done and gots herself a bad case of the chubbs.
> 
> Watch, Henry will get the Senate seat and she will slim down.  Pretty sure that's all padding and makeup.  Pretty good though.
> 
> Oh, and she somehow got sane too. No more locking Sally in the closet or Betty shooting pigeons.  Bummer.
Click to expand...


Everyone has gotten too sane this season.

They seem to be compensating for the disjointed, and worse, humorless plot, which has, I see, extended into the 4th episode.

I'm bored. 

I need someone to use a lawnmower to run over a snobby Englishman's foot during a Christmas party.

Anyway, the good news is I found a place in Calgary, Earl's Restaurant, that makes a FANTASTIC Old Fashioned. Sadly, for most of you, the only restaurants of the Canadian chain in the USA are in Denver and Bellvue, WA


----------



## Zoom-boing

^  Yup.

I'm tired of Don's angst.  He had a crappy childhood, he stole Don Drapper's identity, he screws around on every woman he's ever been with, his face frequently looks like he smells something bad ...  yeah, six years and it's getting old.  

And why oh WHY don't they use Roger more?  Remember in the first few seasons?  He was half the show!  (it's always darkest before the Dawn over there )  Now?  He mumbled something last week.  Boo hiss.


----------



## Samson

Zoom-boing said:


> ^  Yup.
> 
> I'm tired of Don's angst.  He had a crappy childhood, he stole Don Drapper's identity, he screws around on every woman he's ever been with, his face frequently looks like he smells something bad ...  yeah, six years and it's getting old.
> 
> And why oh WHY don't they use Roger more?  Remember in the first few seasons?  He was half the show!  (it's always darkest before the Dawn over there )  Now?  He mumbled something last week.  Boo hiss.



There is one thing that does not get old about Draper: His infinate capacity for hypocracy.

This manifested itself most recently when he found his wife, ACTING IN CHARACTER, having an affair, and was appalled at the behaviour....pretending to be someone she was not _FOR MONEY!!!!_

No wonder he always appears to be smelling something bad: The stench is from his soul.

BTW: Correct about Roger. I wish they'd do an episode where Roger goes to Bangkok.


----------



## Trajan

Zoom-boing said:


> ^  Yup.
> 
> I'm tired of Don's angst.  He had a crappy childhood, he stole Don Drapper's identity, he screws around on every woman he's ever been with, his face frequently looks like he smells something bad ...  yeah, six years and it's getting old.
> 
> And why oh WHY don't they use Roger more?  Remember in the first few seasons?  He was half the show!  (it's always darkest before the Dawn over there )  Now?  He mumbled something last week.  Boo hiss.





Samson said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^  Yup.
> 
> I'm tired of Don's angst.  He had a crappy childhood, he stole Don Drapper's identity, he screws around on every woman he's ever been with, his face frequently looks like he smells something bad ...  yeah, six years and it's getting old.
> 
> And why oh WHY don't they use Roger more?  Remember in the first few seasons?  He was half the show!  (it's always darkest before the Dawn over there )  Now?  He mumbled something last week.  Boo hiss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is one thing that does not get old about Draper: His infinate capacity for hypocracy.
> 
> This manifested itself most recently when he found his wife, ACTING IN CHARACTER, having an affair, and was appalled at the behaviour....pretending to be someone she was not _FOR MONEY!!!!_
> 
> No wonder he always appears to be smelling something bad: The stench is from his soul.
> 
> BTW: Correct about Roger. I wish they'd do an episode where Roger goes to Bangkok.
Click to expand...




when Don is in his cups and starts getting uber maudlin and confessional,  dredging up his childhood etc. , exit visas are imminent.....his 'marriage' is ready to blow....


hes letting himself get hooked on the doctors wife-  rinse, repeat...


----------



## Zoom-boing

I miss the Mad Men of the first four seasons.  I hate that they're entering into the 70's.  Gaaa, the fashion is just killing me.  U-G-L-Y.


----------



## Trajan

well,  the next big show stopper social event will be rfk getting shot...


----------



## Samson

Trajan said:


> when Don is in his cups and starts getting uber maudlin and confessional,  dredging up his childhood etc. , exit visas are imminent.....his 'marriage' is ready to blow....
> 
> 
> hes letting himself get hooked on the doctors wife-  rinse, repeat...



The interesting thing is, he seems to like and respect the doctor, 

......so he fucks around with his wife?

Hypocracy; thy name is Don Draper.


----------



## George Costanza

Keep in mind, gentlemen, Mad Men is all about _consequences_.  Aren't you interested in seeing the consequences that await Don and many of the other characters for their actions as the show progresses?  For me, that is the interesting part.


----------



## George Costanza

What the hell was this with Don suddenly becoming the dominating order-giver with the doc's wife?  "Stay here.  Don't move.  Don't call me.  Put this on.  Take this off.  You're not going anywhere."  What was that all about?  A little (not much, but enough) out of character for Don.  It was almost as if he had read something somewhere about heightening his sex life by becoming an authoritarian order-giver, and he thought he would give it a go with his girl friend there.  Was he trying to end the affair the only way he knew how?


----------



## Mr Natural

George Costanza said:


> What the hell was this with Don suddenly becoming the dominating order-giver with the doc's wife?  "Stay here.  Don't move.  Don't call me.  Put this on.  Take this off.  You're not going anywhere."  What was that all about?  A little (not much, but enough) out of character for Don.  It was almost as if he had read something somewhere about heightening his sex life by becoming an authoritarian order-giver, and he thought he would give it a go with his girl friend there.  Was he trying to end the affair the only way he knew how?



Maybe Don was just trying to get some hand.


----------



## George Costanza

Mr Clean said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell was this with Don suddenly becoming the dominating order-giver with the doc's wife?  "Stay here.  Don't move.  Don't call me.  Put this on.  Take this off.  You're not going anywhere."  What was that all about?  A little (not much, but enough) out of character for Don.  It was almost as if he had read something somewhere about heightening his sex life by becoming an authoritarian order-giver, and he thought he would give it a go with his girl friend there.  Was he trying to end the affair the only way he knew how?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Don was just trying to get some hand.
Click to expand...


Over 40,000 really good comedians out of work, and we get this . . .


----------



## MikeK

George Costanza said:


> What the hell was this with Don suddenly becoming the dominating order-giver with the doc's wife?  "Stay here.  Don't move.  Don't call me.  Put this on.  Take this off.  You're not going anywhere."  What was that all about?  A little (not much, but enough) out of character for Don.  It was almost as if he had read something somewhere about heightening his sex life by becoming an authoritarian order-giver, and he thought he would give it a go with his girl friend there.  Was he trying to end the affair the only way he knew how?


George,

The impression I have is Don has a bit of an _S_ streak in his libido and when he detected an _M_ response in the woman he locked on it.  Because that transaction seemed to be a classic S&M (master/slave) scenario.  

If she hadn't tired of playing and quit, the act might have developed into a full scale B&D (bondage and domination) fantasy and out would come the leather underwear, the handcuffs, the cat-o'-nine tails, etc.  Some of those people tend to get really freaky.  (I could tell a tale about one I met when I was stationed at Camp LeJeune in the '50s.)   

If that wasn't it I can't imagine what it was about.


----------



## Zoom-boing

What the heck was last night's episode?  lol, trippy.

Roger "Why don't you take a nap?  Your face looks like a bag of walnuts".   He cracks me up.  They are stupid for so under-utilizing him.

Is Don running from his past, trying to figure it out, or trying to rationalize what he does/the way he is now with his past?  His whole sex preoccupation is rooted in his upbringing.  Imagine, the mom beats him with a spoon cause he wonked the hooker ... who lives in the house they are living in.  Like, duh, what did she expect.

Fat Betty is no longer fat!  Or brunette!  

At first I thought that the black 'grandmother' was the real Don Draper's relative.  Turns out she was a burglar.  lol  

Overall, another episode that left me perplexed with unanswered questions.

I used to love DD ... even his womanizing, philandering ways.  Now?  I find him more and more offputting.  Instead of the brilliant ad-man he is coming across (to me, anyway) more as arrogant and on his high-horse ... he seems to see others as being 'down there'.  Anyone else get a sense of that from him?

Who else misses the good old days of drinking on the job and calling in the "doctor" to give a shot of speed?


----------



## Smilodonfatalis

I don't get why critics like this show.

The only reason I like to watch it is to look at Christine Hendricks and play with myself.


----------



## editec

George Costanza said:


> On the topic of anacronisms in Mad Men - I have noticed that several of the characters will sometimes use the phrase, "Sorry about that."
> 
> That (annoying) phrase began with the character of Maxwell Smart in the 1960's television series, "Get Smart," which ran for 5 years from 1965 to 1970.  OK, I know that Mad Men is set in the 1960's - but I swear I heard the phrase used in what I am pretty sure were a couple of pre-1965 episodes.
> 
> Regardless, "sorry about that" is with us to this day.  You hear people use it all the time.  It has become a classic, non-apoology, because it trivializes whatever wrong has just been committed and makes it clear that the offending person does not consider what he/she just did as anything that _really_ deserves an apology.
> 
> It is currently very near the top of my "most annoying expressions" list, just below "no problem" as a substitute for "you're welcome."



It was our troops in Veit Nam who took "sorry 'bout that" from _Get Smart_ and made it part of the venacular of the late 60s.

And yes, the phase was nearly always used ironically as a way of saying _NOT sorry bout that_

Reminds me of my HS's class of 65 whose slogan was_ "Ask me if I care"_ meaning ironically..._I do NOT care_


----------



## MikeK

Smilodonfatalis said:


> I don't get why critics like this show.
> 
> The only reason I like to watch it is to look at Christine Hendricks and play with myself.


If you are referring to "Joan," she is very well packaged.  But I don't think you'd find her nearly as appealing without clothes.  That is unless you are into extreme Rubenesque figures.


----------



## Smilodonfatalis

MikeK said:


> Smilodonfatalis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get why critics like this show.
> 
> The only reason I like to watch it is to look at Christine Hendricks and play with myself.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to "Joan," she is very well packaged.  But I don't think you'd find her nearly as appealing without clothes.  That is unless you are into extreme Rubenesque figures.
Click to expand...


I am.

You don't think I'd like her naked?

How would you know what my sexual tastes are?

I ddn't realize internet clowns could read my mind.


----------



## strollingbones

MikeK said:


> Smilodonfatalis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get why critics like this show.
> 
> The only reason I like to watch it is to look at Christine Hendricks and play with myself.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to "Joan," she is very well packaged.  But I don't think you'd find her nearly as appealing without clothes.  That is unless you are into extreme Rubenesque figures.
Click to expand...


the average size in the us for a woman is 14....get a gripe there mike...only a dog wants a bone


----------



## editec

Samson said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the heck happened to Bets?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She done and gots herself a bad case of the chubbs.
> 
> Watch, Henry will get the Senate seat and she will slim down.  Pretty sure that's all padding and makeup.  Pretty good though.
> 
> Oh, and she somehow got sane too. No more locking Sally in the closet or Betty shooting pigeons.  Bummer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone has gotten too sane this season.
> 
> They seem to be compensating for the disjointed, and worse, humorless plot, which has, I see, extended into the 4th episode.
> 
> I'm bored.
> 
> I need someone to use a lawnmower to run over a snobby Englishman's foot during a Christmas party.
> 
> Anyway, the good news is I found a place in Calgary, Earl's Restaurant, that makes a FANTASTIC Old Fashioned. Sadly, for most of you, the only restaurants of the Canadian chain in the USA are in Denver and Bellvue, WA
Click to expand...


Back the early 70's a tended bar in an officers club.

That was back before American DECLARED WAR on drunks.

I make a mean old fashioned.  They were quite popular in those days.

As an aside, a few years back a bar opened that touted itself as  MARTINI EXPERTS.

I ordered an Old Fashioned from the MARTINI EXPERT.

1. She'd never heard of it

2. She had no Aragosta bitters behind the bar

3. She had no powdered sugar

4. She did know what the term muddler was.

Now I have absolutely no doubt she knew a LOT about modern drink like _sex on the beach _and so forth, but she really knew almost nothing about CLASSIC COCKTAILS.

More examples?

Didn't know what a sidecar was 

Didn't know what a "perfect" Martini was.


I don't know what happened to this modern generation, but they don't know jackshit about mixology.


----------



## Samson

Smilodonfatalis said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smilodonfatalis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get why critics like this show.
> 
> The only reason I like to watch it is to look at Christine Hendricks and play with myself.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to "Joan," she is very well packaged.  But I don't think you'd find her nearly as appealing without clothes.  That is unless you are into extreme Rubenesque figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am.
> 
> You don't think I'd like her naked?
> 
> How would you know what my sexual tastes are?
> 
> I ddn't realize internet clowns could read my mind.
Click to expand...


Yeah, well, ya learn something new every day.


----------



## Samson

George Costanza said:


> What the hell was this with Don suddenly becoming the dominating order-giver with the doc's wife?  "Stay here.  Don't move.  Don't call me.  Put this on.  Take this off.  You're not going anywhere."  What was that all about?  A little (not much, but enough) out of character for Don.  It was almost as if he had read something somewhere about heightening his sex life by becoming an authoritarian order-giver, and he thought he would give it a go with his girl friend there.  Was he trying to end the affair the only way he knew how?



Role Playing is "Don Draper's" specialty. What would actually be IN Character would be unusual.

At any rate, he seems to actually be infatuated with the Dr's wife, who finally has to explain that standing outside her door piling up cigarette butts was bound to cause suspicion.


----------



## George Costanza

Samson said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell was this with Don suddenly becoming the dominating order-giver with the doc's wife?  "Stay here.  Don't move.  Don't call me.  Put this on.  Take this off.  You're not going anywhere."  What was that all about?  A little (not much, but enough) out of character for Don.  It was almost as if he had read something somewhere about heightening his sex life by becoming an authoritarian order-giver, and he thought he would give it a go with his girl friend there.  Was he trying to end the affair the only way he knew how?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Role Playing is "Don Draper's" specialty. What would actually be IN Character would be unusual.
> 
> At any rate, he seems to actually be infatuated with the Dr's wife, who finally has to explain that standing outside her door piling up cigarette butts was bound to cause suspicion.
Click to expand...


Wow!  Don banging Betty one more time!  Who'd have thought?  And, in keeping with the disjointed plot develpment this season, we move right on to the next episode with no reference whatsoever to the events of the previous episode in this regard.

Most recent episode?  Disjointed.  Vapid.  Not all that interesting.  We get the idea that the agency gains and loses clients.  We get it.  How about some plot development invoving the characters, rather than the firm's client status?


----------



## George Costanza

Anachronism alert!  In the most recent episode, Don turns off the television set using a remote.  I don't remember remotes being in vogue in the 1960's.


----------



## noose4

George Costanza said:


> Anachronism alert!  In the most recent episode, Don turns off the television set using a remote.  I don't remember remotes being in vogue in the 1960's.



I remember seeing them when I was a little kid in the early 70's and Don is a wealthy man so he may have gotten one of the first ones put out there. Just googled and remote control was patented in mid 50's.


----------

