# Relationship Discussions Thread



## Joz

I decided to start this thread because this seems to be a subject that keeps getting discussed throughout the board.  I also have been  PM'd about my "sex on demand" theory.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find that in  anything I've ever posted.  With that being said,

I still hold true to the fact that men need sex for their well being, both mentally & physically.  It is the mature man that realizes it's emotional for him  also; that's it's better with someone loved.  
Women need the emotional bond before having sex.  She needs to feel understood, appreciated, cared for, in order to express herself in this manner.  But women need it physically as well.

Sex is an integral part of a relationship.  Without it you cannot have a healthy, happy union.  Something is amiss if you donot want to share this,(on a regular basis) with your mate.  
Women withhold sex because a man won't help; or as a punishment.  Men won't help because the woman nags or complains.  The cycle has to be broken, someone has to make the first move, or nothing will ever change.  But each of us feel that if we "give in", we lose power.

There are reasons why someone doesn't want to have sex;  hormones, childhood abuse, things that need professional help.  But you will seek help if you truly love your mate, because you want them to be happy.  
Illness, stress, moods, kids, all affect libido.  But if one is in need, effort should be made by the partner to help.  That doesn't always mean intercourse.  There is oral & manual stimulation that can have the same pleasing results.   I donot believe a woman must drop her drawers the  minute a man walks in the door.  But I do believe an effort should be made by both partners to co-operate.
Should you have sex if you don't feel like it?  I don't know.  Have I ever?  I was married for 21 years.....need I say more?  But, I also changed sheets in the middle of the night because a child vomited on them, pushed a car in the ice & snow, sopped up water off the bathroom floor because the toilet overflowed---none of which I wanted to do.

In the beginning of a relationship sex is exciting.  In fact, the _whole_ relationship is.  You want to touch the person, talk with them, plan with them.  After awhile the excitement wanes.  But in it's place is a deep, heartfelt, committed love; both emotionally & physically, that words cannot express.  I wish you each that love.


----------



## NATO AIR

:clap1: Excellent.

(and your sig (which I just noticed) is quite true.  That is something I have just now begun to understand and have a long way to go before comprehending fully)


----------



## dilloduck

with all due respect Joz , I think you give sex too much priority in the myriad of things involved in relationships. I would much rather have a relationship based on friendship and sharing .


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> with all due respect Joz , I think you give sex too much priority in the myriad of things involved in relationships. I would much rather have a relationship based on friendship and sharing .



She's not 'basing' a relationship on sex...she's saying something like:

"the only difference between a lover and a friend is 'passion'.  If couples don't have passion, they may as well simply be roommates." 

Sex and or intimacy is vital to a marriage relationship.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> She's not 'basing' a relationship on sex...she's saying something like:
> 
> "the only difference between a lover and a friend is 'passion'.  If couples don't have passion, they may as well simply be roommates."
> 
> Sex and or intimacy is vital to a marriage relationship.




just throwing in my 2 cents ---intimacy doesn't require anything physical to occur


----------



## dmp

Sir Evil said:
			
		

> Sex for pleasure is always good, sex with passion is definitely more intense but it's all good!




Indeed.    Sex with somebody you are passionate about - that's the key.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Indeed.    Sex with somebody you are passionate about - that's the key.



I would think to feel passion one might want to talk with the other at least.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I would think to feel passion one might want to talk with the other at least.



I've felt passion with a woman...and neither of us have said a word.  Where there exists a certian 'chemestry' (sorry for the cliche) between a man and a woman, that chemistry, or connection can transcent language.  It's not that she and I weren't communicating.   We were very much in touch with eachother in that moment.  Things around us blurred, and for a time, we sat there, our gaze locked upon one another. Our only touch was our hands held; fingers tangled and gently rubbing.  For that instance...we knew.  This was 'the soul mate' we'd longed for our entire lives.  

At that point, mere 'talking' would have been pointless.


----------



## no1tovote4

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Indeed.    Sex with somebody you are passionate about - that's the key.




I think that it is equally important for them to be passionate about myself as well.  It is the mutual passion that makes it an experience to remember.


----------



## Mr. P

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Indeed.    Sex with somebody you are passionate about - that's the key.


If that's "All" there is to it, that key you speak of fits the jail door, I think they call that rape. :rotflmao: 

PS...I do know what ya mean.


----------



## dmp

no1tovote4 said:
			
		

> I think that it is equally important for them to be passionate about myself as well.  It is the mutual passion that makes it an experience to remember.




That's the key - I was trying to imply that passion needs to be felt by both the man and the woman.   Well-said.

Course, by John would say:

"Passed out equals passion"


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I've felt passion with a woman...and neither of us have said a word.  Where there exists a certian 'chemestry' (sorry for the cliche) between a man and a woman, that chemistry, or connection can transcent language.  It's not that she and I weren't communicating.   We were very much in touch with eachother in that moment.  Things around us blurred, and for a time, we sat there, our gaze locked upon one another. Our only touch was our hands held; fingers tangled and gently rubbing.  For that instance...we knew.  This was 'the soul mate' we'd longed for our entire lives.
> 
> At that point, mere 'talking' would have been pointless.




sounds like a great one nighter--have to talked to this chick yet to continue the relationship?


----------



## no1tovote4

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I've felt passion with a woman...and neither of us have said a word.  Where there exists a certian 'chemestry' (sorry for the cliche) between a man and a woman, that chemistry, or connection can transcent language.  It's not that she and I weren't communicating.   We were very much in touch with eachother in that moment.  Things around us blurred, and for a time, we sat there, our gaze locked upon one another. Our only touch was our hands held; fingers tangled and gently rubbing.  For that instance...we knew.  This was 'the soul mate' we'd longed for our entire lives.
> 
> At that point, mere 'talking' would have been pointless.



And then Ashlee Simpson moved on to her next set and I was snapped back into reality....


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> sounds like a great one nighter--have to talked to this chick yet to continue the relationship?



It wasn't a one-nighter...it was a woman I was involved with many many years ago.  My point in bringing it up is to say that Passion happens.  Passion between a man and a woman can be non-verbal...there are certian connections we can form with those we love - which can only be bonded (no, not bonDAGE, john...you perv!) through love-making.


----------



## Mr. P

-=d=- said:
			
		

> ...there are certian connections we can form with those we love - which can only be bonded (no, not bonDAGE, john...you perv!) through love-making.


I can't totally agree with that D. Lets all admit there is sex and there is passion.

Sex and passion, two separate things. Now, the goal is the archive passionate sex a combination, right? The way I see it if there is no bond before sex the perceived passion will only be lust, and nothing more than self gratification. Sex, passionate sex, is a result of the bond and is not the qualifier of the bond. Dillo is correct IMO, you can have the cutest girl in the world in the bed, but if ya haven't made a connection with "her" through talking it's only sex and lust masked as passion. That's my two cents.


----------



## dmp

Mr. P said:
			
		

> I can't totally agree with that D. Lets all admit there is sex and there is passion.
> 
> Sex and passion, two separate things. Now, the goal is the archive passionate sex a combination, right? The way I see it if there is no bond before sex the perceived passion will only be lust, and nothing more than self gratification. Sex, passionate sex, is a result of the bond and is not the qualifier of the bond. Dillo is correct IMO, you can have the cutest girl in the world in the bed, but if ya haven't made a connection with "her" through talking it's only sex and lust masked as passion. That's my two cents.



I wrote there are 'certain connections..which can only be formed through love-making'. 

I didn't write: "connections can ONLY be formed through love-making".


----------



## manu1959

any of you notice joz got all the men over her to talk sex.....


----------



## Avatar4321

manu1959 said:
			
		

> any of you notice joz got all the men over her to talk sex.....



Like a moth to the flame


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I wrote there are 'certain connections..which can only be formed through love-making'.
> 
> I didn't write: "connections can ONLY be formed through love-making".



I think Joz was talking about keeeping sex alive in a marriage----I just don't think simple chemistry will do it and if one partner can't do without (or just masturbate if need be ) then a LOT of things need talking about.


----------



## Joz

manu1959 said:
			
		

> any of you notice joz got all the men over her to talk sex.....


Hey manu!


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I think Joz was talking about keeeping sex alive in a marriage----I just don't think simple chemistry will do it and if one partner can't do without (or just masturbate if need be ) then a LOT of things need talking about.




Chemistry is exactly what can keep a marriage sex-life alive; and it's far from simple.  It's an attraction to the 'soul' of the other person...


----------



## Mr. P

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Chemistry is exactly what can keep a marriage sex-life alive; and it's far from simple.  It's an attraction to the 'soul' of the other person...


Ya think? Chemistry does it all?


----------



## rtwngAvngr

Woman also like their men to not be big pussies.  This thread sounds like an episode of "the view".    I guess it's sorta cool for men to talk about love, but it also seems faggy.


----------



## dmp

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Ya think? Chemistry does it all?




I think you will find a way to disagree with ANYTHING I reply with...so...good luck.

(sigh)


Your counter-points are moving closer and closer to how a liberal debates politics. 

"Chemistry can keep a marriage sex-life together"

You read that as:

"Chemistry does everything"

see where the disconnect is? You aren't reading what i'm typing, you're reading what you want to see. 

It could be that you've never had real 'chemistry' with a woman? I dunno. I've experienced it, and it was one of the most powerfull things ever...years later (now) i'm STILL talking about it. 

Chemistry between a man and a woman is VITAL for a happy, healthy sex life.  Sex without 'chemistry' between the couple is barely above masturbation in terms of 'usefullness'.  

I'm going to speculate that you will reply to that last section with something like:
"It's impossible to romance and take time with one's mate for sex. Quickies behind the shed can be just as bonding".

So - here's my reply to what I think you may be thinking:

You may not be reading.  I'm saying 'Chemistry' is a bond that brings people together...and when one has chemistry with the person one has sex with, things are amazing; I'd argue w/o chemistry, one would never GET the quickies.


----------



## dmp

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Woman also like their men to not be big pussies.  This thread sounds like an episode of "the view".    I guess it's sorta cool for men to talk about love, but it also seems faggy.




wow.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> with all due respect Joz , I think you give sex too much priority in the myriad of things involved in relationships. I would much rather have *a relationship based on friendship and sharing* .



Well, there you have it.  Any woman who wants a non-sexual relationship can contact dillo.  

YES!  THIS IS THE BASIS OF A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP. 
But when you decide that the _chemistry_ is there to take this wonderous relationship to the next level, SEX in a catalyst.  Why can't you see that this is the way we were _designed_.  I'm not saying this is the be all end all to a relationship.  All I have said it is important for a relationship to be healthy.  

If you cannot communicate to your partner you have a very sad relationship.  Period.   I think that's the reason why sex falls to the wayside.  We're too afraid to talk to the other person.  We just hope things will get better.  But they don't.  Men fall into this category far more than women.

You act like I spend my days copulating like a rabbit.  As nice as that sounds, that is far from the way things are.  But I do know the importance of it in my relationship. I get a thrill when MM & I are out & he reaches over & gives me a pat while some stranger is talking to him.  Or he puts his arm around me or winks at me when he's getting up on stage.  At that moment, he's won my heart all over again.


----------



## dmp

sometimes...I think I shoulda been a woman.   I love it as well, when my wife goes out of her way to acknowledge me with a hug, or a pat, or a kiss, or even a wink.


----------



## Nienna

-=d=- said:
			
		

> wow.


yeah, I thought so too -=d=-!



I can see what he was saying, and agree with it to a point. Perhaps he just expresses himself rather forcefully?


----------



## Shattered

:teeth:


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> sometimes...I think I shoulda been a woman.


Nah, I don't think so.  But for a man you do seem to understand that sex is not just about physical gratification.  





> I love it as well, when my wife goes out of her way to acknowledge me with a hug, or a pat, or a kiss, or even a wink.


We all want that acknowlegement; that our mate is thinking about us, wanting to touch us, let us know we are cared about.


----------



## Joz

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Woman also like their men to not be big pussies.  This thread sounds like an episode of "the view".    I guess it's sorta cool for men to talk about love, but it also seems faggy.


  I don't expect you to call up a bunch of your buddies, go out for a beer, and talk about whether you & your mate is getting it on.  But this does allow you , that if you have concerns, that you can talk about it _without_ feeling "faggy".  I don't think this qualifies any of the men as pussies.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> sex is not just about physical gratification.




Bingo.  Sex bonds people together - even the one-nighters, like John likes


----------



## Nienna

-=d=- said:
			
		

> sometimes...I think I shoulda been a woman.   I love it as well, when my wife goes out of her way to acknowledge me with a hug, or a pat, or a kiss, or even a wink.



I read a book called the _Five Love Languages_ by Gary Smalley. -=d=-, it seems like your strongest love language is physical touch. Mine too.

Here are the Five, in case anyone is interested...

*Physical Touch* Hugs, kisses, sex, any kind of touching
*Words of Praise* Saying nice things, love letters
*Acts of Service* Mending a shirt, taking out the trash, going out of your way to do it for the other person
*Gifts*Spend time picking it out, wrapping it, presenting it in a special way
*Quality Time* Special time where all the attention is focused on the other person, eye contact

All people need all five, but one or two usually "speak" louder to an individual. A person may "speak" one love language, but want to receive a different language.

Just a bite from my vault of useless knowledge!


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Bingo.  Sex bonds people together - even the one-nighters, like John likes


Yes, you leave a part of your soul with that person.  If you waste it, by the time you find the right person, you have nothing left to give.


----------



## 5stringJeff

mom4 said:
			
		

> I read a book called the _Five Love Languages_ by Gary Smalley. -=d=-, it seems like your strongest love language is physical touch. Mine too.
> 
> Here are the Five, in case anyone is interested...
> 
> *Physical Touch* Hugs, kisses, sex, any kind of touching
> *Words of Praise* Saying nice things, love letters
> *Acts of Service* Mending a shirt, taking out the trash, going out of your way to do it for the other person
> *Gifts*Spend time picking it out, wrapping it, presenting it in a special way
> *Quality Time* Special time where all the attention is focused on the other person, eye contact
> 
> All people need all five, but one or two usually "speak" louder to an individual. A person may "speak" one love language, but want to receive a different language.
> 
> Just a bite from my vault of useless knowledge!



An excellent book!  Mine is touch, my wife's is time.


----------



## dmp

mom4 said:
			
		

> I read a book called the _Five Love Languages_ by Gary Smalley. -=d=-, it seems like your strongest love language is physical touch. Mine too.
> 
> Here are the Five, in case anyone is interested...
> 
> *Physical Touch* Hugs, kisses, sex, any kind of touching
> *Words of Praise* Saying nice things, love letters
> *Acts of Service* Mending a shirt, taking out the trash, going out of your way to do it for the other person
> *Gifts*Spend time picking it out, wrapping it, presenting it in a special way
> *Quality Time* Special time where all the attention is focused on the other person, eye contact
> 
> All people need all five, but one or two usually "speak" louder to an individual. A person may "speak" one love language, but want to receive a different language.
> 
> Just a bite from my vault of useless knowledge!




Funny - gop_Jeff reccomended that book to me a week or so ago. Nice 
I think I'm *Physical Touch*, *Words of Praise*, *Gifts*,and *Quality Time*. *Acts of Service* really doesn't do much for me. 


For my wife - she's probably *Acts of Service*....


----------



## Merlin1047

Joz said:
			
		

> I don't expect you to call up a bunch of your buddies, go out for a beer, and talk about whether you & your mate is getting it on.  But this does allow you , that if you have concerns, that you can talk about it _without_ feeling "faggy".  I don't think this qualifies any of the men as pussies.



I suppose that our priorities change somewhat as we age.  That fact was brought brutally to light a number of years ago while I was still active in the National Guard.

A bunch of us "senior" pilots were sitting around in the briefing room of the flight facility hoping that no one would take a notion that we ought to go fly or something equally ridiculous.  Several junior birdmen came through hoping to talk one of us into getting off our asses to go fly with them.  (We called them "sky sharks" since they were always bugging us to go fly) They needed a pilot in command since they were not yet qualified as such.  We blew them all off since we were busy impressing each other with our war stories.

Exasperated, one of the sky sharks blurted "You know what the difference is between us young guys and all you old farts?"  We all gave him our attention, because we intended to make mincemeat out of the impertinent pup.  He continued "Us young guys come in and talk about how great the sex was last night.  You old bastards sit around and talk about how great that last shit you took was!"

We didn't say a word.  When they're right, they're right.

But to stay on topic - some folks have poo-pooed (no pun) the need for chemistry and passion in a marriage.  I maintain that is a key element.  Without an emotional connection, sex is simply a utilitarian act.  Pretty much like that trip to the toilet.


----------



## dmp

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> Without an emotional connection, sex is simply a utilitarian act.  Pretty much like that trip to the toilet.



No shit.



hehe...


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> .....
> Here are the Five, in case anyone is interested...
> *Physical Touch* Hugs, kisses, sex, any kind of touching
> *Words of Praise* Saying nice things, love letters
> *Acts of Service* Mending a shirt, taking out the trash, going out of your way to do it for the other person
> *Gifts*Spend time picking it out, wrapping it, presenting it in a special way
> *Quality Time* Special time where all the attention is focused on the other person, eye contact
> 
> All people need all five, but one or two usually "speak" louder to an individual. A person may "speak" one love language, but want to receive a different language.


Thank you mom4.  I sometimes feel like the Lone Ranger.  
This sounds like a book to help us understand our individual needs.  As I understand myself, I think mine are Physical & Quality time, Words, Service, Gifts.


----------



## Merlin1047

mom4 said:
			
		

> I read a book called the _Five Love Languages_ by Gary Smalley. -=d=-, it seems like your strongest love language is physical touch. Mine too.
> 
> Here are the Five, in case anyone is interested...
> 
> *Physical Touch* Hugs, kisses, sex, any kind of touching
> *Words of Praise* Saying nice things, love letters
> *Acts of Service* Mending a shirt, taking out the trash, going out of your way to do it for the other person
> *Gifts*Spend time picking it out, wrapping it, presenting it in a special way
> *Quality Time* Special time where all the attention is focused on the other person, eye contact
> 
> All people need all five, but one or two usually "speak" louder to an individual. A person may "speak" one love language, but want to receive a different language.
> 
> Just a bite from my vault of useless knowledge!



Dang, Mom.  That's all well and good as far as it goes, but where's the advice about the hot oil, various battery operated implements and the trapeze????

 :teeth:


----------



## Joz

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> I suppose that our priorities change somewhat as we age. ......


I know a counselor that started reading books on this very subject.  Sex had taken a different role in his life & he was concerned about what was happening to him & his libido.  He was glad to find out he was 'normal'.
I somehow feel his wife, wasn't.


----------



## Merlin1047

Joz said:
			
		

> I know a counselor that started reading books on this very subject.  Sex had taken a different role in his life & he was concerned about what was happening to him & his libido.  He was glad to find out he was 'normal'.
> I somehow feel his wife, wasn't.



Awwwww Joz.  As much as you may want to fight it, the unfortunate fact of nature is that we can't hump like bunnies until the day we die at age 85.


----------



## Nienna

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> Dang, Mom.  That's all well and good as far as it goes, but where's the advice about the hot oil, various battery operated implements and the trapeze????
> 
> :teeth:



I must have missed that chapter!




Mine were Physical Touch, Words of Praise, Acts of Service, Quality Time, and Gifts. (In the Order I like to recieve)

I easily express Words, physical touch. Acts of service... I AM a stay-at-home mom; my life IS an act of service! I have more trouble with gifts and quality time, expressing them, that is.

I haven't figured out what my husband's language is. :huh:
I guess I'm just so good at lovin' him that he doesn't feel the lack any particular one!


----------



## Joz

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> Awwwww Joz.  As much as you may want to fight it, the unfortunate fact of nature is that we can't hump like bunnies until the day we die at age 85.


 And that is precisely why I say there are other ways to be intimate.  A marriage needs *intimacy*, in _whatever_ way both can feel fulfilled.  If it is sitting on the porch swing, hand in hand, watching the sunset, so be it.


----------



## dilloduck

manu1959 said:
			
		

> any of you notice joz got all the men over her to talk sex.....


 C'mon Manu---she did't "get" us to do anything----we CHOSE to  (here's where your word works ) :teeth:


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> ....
> I guess I'm just so good at lovin' him that he doesn't feel the lack any particular one!


I'm soooo glad you can admit that.  (and maybe that's just tongue-in-cheek) That you are capable of satifying your mate dispite the fact that you are exhausted from running a house & rearing 4 children.  I sure hope he values you.  You indeed are rare.


----------



## Merlin1047

Joz said:
			
		

> And that is precisely why I say there are other ways to be intimate.  A marriage needs *intimacy*, in _whatever_ way both can feel fulfilled.  If it is sitting on the porch swing, hand in hand, watching the sunset, so be it.



Okey dokey.  You have an excellent point.

Matter of fact, I'm so impressed that I'm going to run out and have her vacuum cleaner monogrammed.

hee hee.  Sorry.  I'm in one of those moods today.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> And that is precisely why I say there are other ways to be intimate.  A marriage needs *intimacy*, in _whatever_ way both can feel fulfilled.  If it is sitting on the porch swing, hand in hand, watching the sunset, so be it.



Some couples feel that intimacy without the other even present. My mother still feels intimate with my father who died 4 years ago.


----------



## Joz

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> Okey dokey.  You have an excellent point.


You know exactly what I'm talking about.  As long as you've been married, if you haven't caught on by now.........



> Matter of fact, I'm so impressed that I'm going to run out and have her vacuum cleaner monogrammed.


You're such a romantic.


----------



## Shattered

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> Okey dokey.  You have an excellent point.
> 
> Matter of fact, I'm so impressed that I'm going to run out and have her vacuum cleaner monogrammed.
> 
> hee hee.  Sorry.  I'm in one of those moods today.



If you were *really* impressed, you'd have purchased a robotic vacuum, and had *that* monogrammed.  In diamonds.


----------



## Merlin1047

Joz said:
			
		

> You know exactly what I'm talking about.  As long as you've been married, if you haven't caught on by now.........
> 
> You're such a romantic.



Okay, okay - I'll try to be serious long enough to finish this one post.  You're absolutely on target with the intimacy thing.  The wife and I can be happy just sitting together in the same room.  We've been together for 36 years, been married for 33 and we still walk down the street holding hands.

I go off by myself for a week-long motorcycle jaunt each year and she goes off with her female friends for a week at the beach.  I think the separation does us good because it brings home the fact that when she's not around, I really miss the old broad.

Okay - lost it there at the end.  But that's the best I can do today.


----------



## dilloduck

Shattered said:
			
		

> If you were *really* impressed, you'd have purchased a robotic vacuum, and had *that* monogrammed.  In diamonds.



Buying a woman off??  does that work?


----------



## Merlin1047

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Buying a woman off??  does that work?



I dunno - you may want to ask Kobe Bryant's wife about that.  Assuming that her finger hasn't fallen off from the weight of that diamond ring.


----------



## Joz

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> Okay, okay - I'll try to be serious long enough to finish this one post.  You're absolutely on target with the intimacy thing.  The wife and I can be happy just sitting together in the same room.  We've been together for 36 years, been married for 33 and we still walk down the street holding hands.
> 
> I go off by myself for a week-long motorcycle jaunt each year and she goes off with her female friends for a week at the beach.  I think the separation does us good because it brings home the fact that when she's not around, I really miss the old broad.
> 
> Okay - lost it there at the end.  But that's the best I can do today.


I think you did VERY well.


----------



## Joz

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> I dunno - you may want to ask Kobe Bryant's wife about that.  Assuming that her finger hasn't fallen off from the weight of that diamond ring.


Yeah, I'm sure that diamond makes up for the fact that the world knows he screws around on her.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'm sure that diamond makes up for the fact that the world knows he screws around on her.



ya know---somehow I just KNEW that didn't work.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> ya know---somehow I just KNEW that didn't work.


It just might for some.  I just don't happen to be in that category.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> It just might for some.  I just don't happen to be in that category.



Don't think it's working for her either---Kobe is probably being tortured everyday. Guess he can either put up with it or leave.


----------



## dmp

re: Kobe...perhaps his wife started sleeping around years ago? It could very well be Kobe is just the one who got caught?     Kobe isn't a victim - except of extortion - but that's not to say she's any better than he.  She IS a lot hotter - that's for sure


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> re: Kobe...perhaps his wife started sleeping around years ago? It could very well be Kobe is just the one who got caught?


Perhaps this is so.  Maybe she's more discreet.  Maybe she chooses a better type of person to cheat with.  But we don't know......





> She IS a lot hotter - that's for sure


And when it comes right down to it, THAT didn't matter when he decided to cheat.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Perhaps this is so.  Maybe she's more discreet.  Maybe she chooses a better type of person to cheat with.  But we don't know......And when it comes right down to it, THAT didn't matter when he decided to cheat.



Maybe she was punishing him with lack of sex or the silent treatment so he went elsewhere.


----------



## freeandfun1

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Maybe she was punishing him with lack of sex or the silent treatment so he went elsewhere.



Yup.  In the thread about the lack of sex in Japanese marriages, one thing that didn't get covered is how it is usually the choice of the WOMAN to withold sex and that is usually what drives men to cheating.  Not always, but more often than not.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Maybe she was punishing him with lack of sex or the silent treatment so he went elsewhere.


That's a possibility.  (you're bound & determined to throw a dig in when you can) Maybe they should have tried communicating first. Maybe they found out there wasn't any real chemistry.....just attraction/lust, nothing to hold the union together.


----------



## Mr. P

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I think you will find a way to disagree with ANYTHING I reply with...so...good luck.
> 
> (sigh)
> 
> 
> Your counter-points are moving closer and closer to how a liberal debates politics.
> 
> "Chemistry can keep a marriage sex-life together"
> 
> You read that as:
> 
> "Chemistry does everything"
> 
> see where the disconnect is? You aren't reading what i'm typing, you're reading what you want to see.
> 
> It could be that you've never had real 'chemistry' with a woman? I dunno. I've experienced it, and it was one of the most powerfull things ever...years later (now) i'm STILL talking about it.
> 
> Chemistry between a man and a woman is VITAL for a happy, healthy sex life.  Sex without 'chemistry' between the couple is barely above masturbation in terms of 'usefullness'.
> 
> I'm going to speculate that you will reply to that last section with something like:
> "It's impossible to romance and take time with one's mate for sex. Quickies behind the shed can be just as bonding".
> 
> So - here's my reply to what I think you may be thinking:
> 
> You may not be reading.  I'm saying 'Chemistry' is a bond that brings people together...and when one has chemistry with the person one has sex with, things are amazing; I'd argue w/o chemistry, one would never GET the quickies.


Sometimes you're such a putz, D. :baby4:


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> I'm soooo glad you can admit that.  (and maybe that's just tongue-in-cheek) That you are capable of satifying your mate dispite the fact that you are exhausted from running a house & rearing 4 children.  I sure hope he values you.  You indeed are rare.



Thanks, Joz! I love the Words of Praise!


----------



## dilloduck

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Yup.  In the thread about the lack of sex in Japanese marriages, one thing that didn't get covered is how it is usually the choice of the WOMAN to withold sex and that is usually what drives men to cheating.  Not always, but more often than not.




I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is on punishment of any relationship "crime" for that matter.


----------



## Nienna

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Buying a woman off??  does that work?



Maybe her love language is Gifts.


----------



## dmp

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Sometimes you're such a putz, D. :baby4:




Excellent contribution! nice post!

 :bangheads


----------



## Joz

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Yup.  In the thread about the lack of sex in Japanese marriages, one thing that didn't get covered is how it is usually the choice of the WOMAN to withold sex and that is usually what drives men to cheating.  Not always, but more often than not.


 But in this country, either party withholding sex, is a 'power struggle'.  And other cultures accept the mistress more so than we do.


----------



## freeandfun1

Joz said:
			
		

> But in this country, either party withholding sex, is a 'power struggle'.  And other cultures accept the mistress more so than we do.



Yes, you are right.  Here it is more about power than anything else.  In many marriages the struggles for power include contolling either money or sex or both.


----------



## dilloduck

mom4 said:
			
		

> Maybe her love language is Gifts.




"Love language"---that must explain oral sex


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> Maybe her love language is Gifts.


VERY good point.


----------



## Joz

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Yes, you are right.  Here it is more about power than anything else.  In many marriages the struggles for power include contolling either money or sex or both.


But why is that????


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> But why is that????



Equal rights


----------



## freeandfun1

Joz said:
			
		

> But why is that????



Each person's reason is different and usually can be traced back to some childhood experiences.


----------



## freeandfun1

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Each person's reason is different and usually can be traced back to some childhood experiences.



Oh, that and maturity.  For one to overcome their problems all they need to do is grow up a bit and look at things differently.  but we all tend to hold onto at least some part of our "inner-child".


----------



## dilloduck

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Oh, that and maturity.  For one to overcome their problems all they need to do is grow up a bit and look at things differently.  but we all tend to hold onto at least some part of our "inner-child".



Woman have taken it on the chin for years but now that we are all supposed to be equal there is no designated "submisive" one. Hence the battles.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Equal rights


We've come a long way, Baby, haven't we?


----------



## no1tovote4

mom4 said:
			
		

> Maybe her love language is Gifts.




My wife's is the amount of back-breaking work that I do around the house.

Not vacuuming, not mowing, nooo...

I have to dig a pond.  Put up a fence, build a barn....

I love it.  shhh don't tell her I said so.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> We've come a long way, Baby, haven't we?


I guess---submission at ANY time seems to be quite the betrayal of the whole gender I guess.


----------



## freeandfun1

no1tovote4 said:
			
		

> I have to dig a pond.  Put up a fence, build a barn....
> 
> I love it.  shhh don't tell her I said so.



That is the kind of stuff men should be doing.  But instead, most wives want their husband to lessen THEIR loads.  I hate washing the dishes, but I do it.  I hate folding clothes, but I do it.  All in an effort to keep harmony in the home.  I would much rather be outside splitting wood, plowing a field, etc.  Damn, I gotta convince my wife to move to the country!


----------



## Joz

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Oh, that and maturity.  For one to overcome their problems all they need to do is grow up a bit and look at things differently.  but we all tend to hold onto at least some part of our "inner-child".


That inner-child WILL be with each of us, always.  It is a part of who we are.  But we also need to recognize when the "child' surfaces by our reactions, and not let it take over.  Indeed, we are now adults.


----------



## dilloduck

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> That is the kind of stuff men should be doing.  But instead, most wives want their husband to lessen THEIR loads.  I hate washing the dishes, but I do it.  I hate folding clothes, but I do it.  All in an effort to keep harmony in the home.  I would much rather be outside splitting wood, plowing a field, etc.  Damn, I gotta convince my wife to move to the country!



It appears as maybe BOTH sexes tend to take each others contributions for granted.


----------



## Joz

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> That is the kind of stuff men should be doing.  But instead, most wives want their husband to lessen THEIR loads.  I hate washing the dishes, but I do it.  I hate folding clothes, but I do it.  All in an effort to keep harmony in the home.  I would much rather be outside splitting wood, plowing a field, etc.  Damn, I gotta convince my wife to move to the country!


See, the roles of men & women have become blurred.  I don't want to turn this into a homosexual thread, please, but I think this has alot to do with the increase in homosexuality.   Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that men cannot/should not help his wife.  But women are being taught that in order to survive in a man's world, she must become man-like.  She has forgotten the gentle power she possesses.


----------



## freeandfun1

Joz said:
			
		

> That inner-child WILL be with each of us, always.  It is a part of who we are.  But we also need to recognize when the "child' surfaces by our reactions, and not let it take over.  Indeed, we are now adults.



That is why I mentioned maturity.  Maturity is what helps one control their "inner-child" and not let it take over.


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> See, the roles of men & women have become blurred.  I don't want to turn this into a homosexual thread, please, but I think this has alot to do with the increase in homosexuality.   Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that men cannot/should not help his wife.  But women are being taught that in order to survive in a man's world, she must become man-like.  She has forgotten the gentle power she possesses.






When did feminism become unfemiNINE? I love being a girl! I'll take the Biblical roles any day. A Wife is told to submit to her husband. A husband is told to love his wife as Christ loves the Church. Unconditional love, patience, protection even to the point of giving his life. I tell you, I got no problem submitting to that!


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> See, the roles of men & women have become blurred.  I don't want to turn this into a homosexual thread, please, but I think this has alot to do with the increase in homosexuality.   Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that men cannot/should not help his wife.  But women are being taught that in order to survive in a man's world, she must become man-like.  She has forgotten the gentle power she possesses.



I agree--maybe folks should just try to be themselves instead of societys' role model how your gender should act.


----------



## freeandfun1

I agree with you both.  The roles have been merged, blurred, whatever and that causes a lot of problems.  In the old days, the men went out and worked their asses off to support the family while the woman stayed home an worked her ass off to feed, cloth and care for the family.  Nowadays, nobody cares for the family and everybody is focused on making money.


----------



## Nienna

mom4 said:
			
		

> When did feminism become unfemiNINE? I love being a girl! I'll take the Biblical roles any day. A Wife is told to submit to her husband. A husband is told to love his wife as Christ loves the Church. Unconditional love, patience, protection even to the point of giving his life. I tell you, I got no problem submitting to that!



And I certainly don't begrudge the poor guy a few ego strokes either!


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> See, the roles of men & women have become blurred.  I don't want to turn this into a homosexual thread, please, but I think this has alot to do with the increase in homosexuality.   Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that men cannot/should not help his wife.  But women are being taught that in order to survive in a man's world, she must become man-like.  She has forgotten the gentle power she possesses.




My wife wants to build a patio...install the cobblestone...she wants to put in a fire-pit.  She wants and does build furniture around the house...she wants a 'shop'.

Agreed, however...there has been a blurring of roles...and it sucks.


----------



## dmp

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Nowadays, nobody cares for the family and everybody is focused on making money.




Right - it's sad to me to hear couples say 'We don't want kids until we can afford them' - as they drive away in their $60K SUV, and park it at their $450k house..


----------



## dilloduck

mom4 said:
			
		

> And I certainly don't begrudge the poor guy a few ego strokes either!



Submission is only bad when done by the same person all the time---when neither will EVER submit it is a constant war--not fun.


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> And I certainly don't begrudge the poor guy a few ego strokes either!


So, that's what you're calling it now? :wank: Ego strokes?     :happy2:


----------



## Nienna

mom4 said:
			
		

> And I certainly don't begrudge the poor guy a few ego strokes either!


 or a hot meal when he comes home from work.


----------



## dilloduck

mom4 said:
			
		

> or a hot meal when he comes home from work.


 and--------------------??????? lets get to the juicy stuff, MOM. :rotflmao:


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Submission is only bad when done by the same person all the time---when neither will EVER submit it is a constant war--not fun.


If it isn't a give & take proposition, resentment builds up, like a pyramid, brick by brick.


----------



## dmp

women? If you want to really take care of your man...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19569


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> If it isn't a give & take proposition, resentment builds up, like a pyramid, brick by brick.



humility and admission of guilt are becoming a lost art.


----------



## no1tovote4

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> I agree with you both.  The roles have been merged, blurred, whatever and that causes a lot of problems.  In the old days, the men went out and worked their asses off to support the family while the woman stayed home an worked her ass off to feed, cloth and care for the family.  Nowadays, nobody cares for the family and everybody is focused on making money.




This is how I knew that she was the lady for me.  She stays at home with the kids at the sacrifice of the riches we had before we had the kids.  Now that is sacrifice that can be measured, I'll do the hard work to keep her happy and never complain.  All I have to do is think about it for a little...


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> women? If you want to really take care of your man...
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19569


 Don't turn this into a, blow by blow, battle of the sexes.   :happy2:


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Don't turn this into a, blow by blow, battle of the sexes.   :happy2:



lol 

Indeed.  This is the Topic about Sex Discussions.


----------



## freeandfun1

-=d=- said:
			
		

> lol
> 
> Indeed.  This is the Topic about Sex Discussions.



fun how she used the term "blow by blow"


----------



## Said1

no1tovote4 said:
			
		

> This is how I knew that she was the lady for me.  She stays at home with the kids at the sacrifice of the riches we had before we had the kids.  Now that is sacrifice that can be measured, I'll do the hard work to keep her happy and never complain.  All I have to do is think about it for a little...




Think about what?


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> lol
> 
> Indeed.  This is the Topic about Sex Discussions.


Well, if that's what you want to talk about, I think this is the thread for it.  What do you want to know? :rotflmao:


----------



## dilloduck

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> fun how she used the term "blow by blow"




Joz doesn't miss a lick


----------



## no1tovote4

Said1 said:
			
		

> Think about what?




The fact that she stays home with the kids.  That job is harder than building a barn!


----------



## Said1

no1tovote4 said:
			
		

> The fact that she stays home with the kids.  That job is harder than building a barn!




Just checking.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Joz doesn't miss a lick


 :rotflmao: Don't get nasty, now. :rotflmao:


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Well, if that's what you want to talk about, I think this is the thread for it.  What do you want to know? :rotflmao:





I'd like to know how it all works...I just don't get it.


----------



## Merlin1047

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Yup.  In the thread about the lack of sex in Japanese marriages, one thing that didn't get covered is how it is usually the choice of the WOMAN to withold sex and that is usually what drives men to cheating.  Not always, but more often than not.



I really don't agree at all with that assessment.

Look at Bill Clinton, JFK, and any number of famous philanderers.  Cheating is about a me-first attitude.  It's about lack of respect for the spouse.  It's about lack of morals.  It's about lack of regard for the marriage vows.  Cheating is rarely IF EVER attributable to anything the other party in the marriage did or did not do.  Sometimes cheating happens when a marriage is already doomed to failure and either or both parties no longer care about the relationsip.

In all our married years I have never cheated, not even once.  Being away from home a lot, I've had many opportunities to indulge if I took a notion to do that.  And keep in mind that I'm your basic party animal, so I tend to gravitate to situations where cheating opportunites abound.  But several things always stopped me.  First, when I spoke my marriage vows, I was dead serious about it.  I've watched my mother go through husbands faster that I go through socks and I'm determined not to fall into that mold.  Second, I love my wife and value our marriage.  I know that although she feels the same, if she ever caught me cheating, my ass would be out in the street and our marriage would be over.  Third, trust is an absolute necessity to me.  My wife goes out with the girls whenever she pleases, I go out with the guys.  I know that she isn't going to do anything that I wouldn't and I believe that she trusts me in the same way.  

Then I have watched people who cheat regularly.  They live in constant fear that someone will speak to their wives and unintentionally say something which will cause their entire web of lies to unravel.  I can't live like that.

So I guess the bottom line is that I believe that cheating is a personal choice that someone makes and that choice is usually unrelated to anything that the other spouse may or may not have done.


----------



## dilloduck

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> I really don't agree at all with that assessment.
> 
> Look at Bill Clinton, JFK, and any number of famous philanderers.  Cheating is about a me-first attitude.  It's about lack of respect for the spouse.  It's about lack of morals.  It's about lack of regard for the marriage vows.  Cheating is rarely IF EVER attributable to anything the other party in the marriage did or did not do.  Sometimes cheating happens when a marriage is already doomed to failure and either or both parties no longer care about the relationsip.
> 
> In all our married years I have never cheated, not even once.  Being away from home a lot, I've had many opportunities to indulge if I took a notion to do that.  And keep in mind that I'm your basic party animal, so I tend to gravitate to situations where cheating opportunites abound.  But several things always stopped me.  First, when I spoke my marriage vows, I was dead serious about it.  I've watched my mother go through husbands faster that I go through socks and I'm determined not to fall into that mold.  Second, I love my wife and value our marriage.  I know that although she feels the same, if she ever caught me cheating, my ass would be out in the street and our marriage would be over.  Third, trust is an absolute necessity to me.  My wife goes out with the girls whenever she pleases, I go out with the guys.  I know that she isn't going to do anything that I wouldn't and I believe that she trusts me in the same way.
> 
> Then I have watched people who cheat regularly.  They live in constant fear that someone will speak to their wives and unintentionally say something which will cause their entire web of lies to unravel.  I can't live like that.
> 
> So I guess the bottom line is that I believe that cheating is a personal choice that someone makes and that choice is usually unrelated to anything that the other spouse may or may not have done.



I would agree--one can always choose abstinance or masturbation.


----------



## freeandfun1

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> I really don't agree at all with that assessment.
> 
> Look at Bill Clinton, JFK, and any number of famous philanderers.  Cheating is about a me-first attitude.  It's about lack of respect for the spouse.  It's about lack of morals.  It's about lack of regard for the marriage vows.  Cheating is rarely IF EVER attributable to anything the other party in the marriage did or did not do.  Sometimes cheating happens when a marriage is already doomed to failure and either or both parties no longer care about the relationsip.
> 
> In all our married years I have never cheated, not even once.  Being away from home a lot, I've had many opportunities to indulge if I took a notion to do that.  And keep in mind that I'm your basic party animal, so I tend to gravitate to situations where cheating opportunites abound.  But several things always stopped me.  First, when I spoke my marriage vows, I was dead serious about it.  I've watched my mother go through husbands faster that I go through socks and I'm determined not to fall into that mold.  Second, I love my wife and value our marriage.  I know that although she feels the same, if she ever caught me cheating, my ass would be out in the street and our marriage would be over.  Third, trust is an absolute necessity to me.  My wife goes out with the girls whenever she pleases, I go out with the guys.  I know that she isn't going to do anything that I wouldn't and I believe that she trusts me in the same way.
> 
> Then I have watched people who cheat regularly.  They live in constant fear that someone will speak to their wives and unintentionally say something which will cause their entire web of lies to unravel.  I can't live like that.
> 
> So I guess the bottom line is that I believe that cheating is a personal choice that someone makes and that choice is usually unrelated to anything that the other spouse may or may not have done.



When a spouse witholds sex, it is shows a lack intimacy.  After a while, the spouse that the sex is being withelf from is going to feel unloved and is likely to look elsewhere for that compassion/intimacy.


----------



## freeandfun1

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> I really don't agree at all with that assessment.
> 
> Look at Bill Clinton, JFK, and any number of famous philanderers.  Cheating is about a me-first attitude.  It's about lack of respect for the spouse.  It's about lack of morals.  It's about lack of regard for the marriage vows.  Cheating is rarely IF EVER attributable to anything the other party in the marriage did or did not do.  Sometimes cheating happens when a marriage is already doomed to failure and either or both parties no longer care about the relationsip.
> 
> In all our married years I have never cheated, not even once.  Being away from home a lot, I've had many opportunities to indulge if I took a notion to do that.  And keep in mind that I'm your basic party animal, so I tend to gravitate to situations where cheating opportunites abound.  But several things always stopped me.  First, when I spoke my marriage vows, I was dead serious about it.  I've watched my mother go through husbands faster that I go through socks and I'm determined not to fall into that mold.  Second, I love my wife and value our marriage.  I know that although she feels the same, if she ever caught me cheating, my ass would be out in the street and our marriage would be over.  Third, trust is an absolute necessity to me.  My wife goes out with the girls whenever she pleases, I go out with the guys.  I know that she isn't going to do anything that I wouldn't and I believe that she trusts me in the same way.
> 
> Then I have watched people who cheat regularly.  They live in constant fear that someone will speak to their wives and unintentionally say something which will cause their entire web of lies to unravel.  I can't live like that.
> 
> So I guess the bottom line is that I believe that cheating is a personal choice that someone makes and that choice is usually unrelated to anything that the other spouse may or may not have done.



Also, I was mainly speaking of the Asian cultures in the post you replied to.  It is that way in Korea and Japan.  Often it is the women that do not want to have sex with their husbands (as they are taught it makes them into "whores" if they enjoy it) so they, for all intents and purposes, encourage the men to go elsewhere so they will be "respected" as "good" wives that don't _enjoy_ sex.

Sounds crazy I know, but that is the way it is.


----------



## Joz

Merlin1047 said:
			
		

> I really don't agree at all with that assessment.....
> So I guess the bottom line is that I believe that cheating is a personal choice that someone makes and that choice is usually unrelated to anything that the other spouse may or may not have done.


Cheating is more aboout yourself than the other person.  Usually it comes from low esteem; a feeling of defeat; something in your life, either from childhood or something more recent that makes you do this.  As much as you want to place the blame on the other person, _they are NOT the cause_.


----------



## Joz

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Also, I was mainly speaking of the Asian cultures in the post you replied to.  It is that way in Korea and Japan.  Often it is the women that do not want to have sex with their husbands (as they are taught it makes them into "whores" if they enjoy it) so they, for all intents and purposes, encourage the men to go elsewhere so they will be "respected" as "good" wives that don't _enjoy_ sex.
> Sounds crazy I know, but that is the way it is.


Shame the wives are cheated this way.  All the work and no benefits.  Isn't it something what a woman will do for respect?


----------



## dmp

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> When a spouse witholds sex, it is shows a lack intimacy.




also - witholding is the same as cheating; it's simply a breaking of a marriage vow; Love/Cherrish, etc...  It often goes over-looked however, as people focus on the more 'dramatic' vow - the one about forsaking all others.


----------



## Joz

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> When a spouse witholds sex, it is shows a lack intimacy.  After a while, the spouse that the sex is being withelf from is going to feel unloved and is likely to look elsewhere for that compassion/intimacy.


Even tho' I said the other person is not the cause, you can see where they are definately a contributer.  Without the intimacy of your partner, your self worth/esteem begins to diminish.  It's hard to feel good about yourself when you are constantly rejected.  Thus you go elsewhere for the boost.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I'd like to know how it all works...I just don't get it.


You have to start.  I'm not about to take that bite.


----------



## Avatar4321

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I would agree--one can always choose abstinance or masturbation.



I don't think id recommend the second one. I know some men who caused the lack of sex between them and their wives cause they spent their time looking to poor and taking care of themselves. That stuff can cause serious problems in relationships and rob couples of time they deserve together. 

My suggestion, just work at fixing the problem in the marriage that is causing the lack of passion. My parents have a rule that they go out on a date everyweek. If the courtship never ends you can never grow apart.


----------



## dmp

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> I don't think id recommend the second one. I know some men who caused the lack of sex between them and their wives cause they spent their time looking to poor and taking care of themselves. That stuff can cause serious problems in relationships and rob couples of time they deserve together.
> 
> My suggestion, just work at fixing the problem in the marriage that is causing the lack of passion. My parents have a rule that they go out on a date everyweek. If the courtship never ends you can never grow apart.




Where 'none' exists, there's nothing to rob.  I think it's better than living days on end w/o any sort of 'release'...I know plenty of guys who have gone months without...their wives - one wife in particular - who has simply said she no longer wants or will allow for sex with him.  He's not big on divorce; and he can't see moving to POVERTY this state's child-support Nazis invoke...so he lives with her...miserable...and praying for change.

He's a better man than I.


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> She's not 'basing' a relationship on sex...she's saying something like:
> 
> "the only difference between a lover and a friend is 'passion'.  If couples don't have passion, they may as well simply be roommates."
> 
> Sex and or intimacy is vital to a marriage relationship.



Absolutely vital!!  The difference seems to be that couples who make sure their relationship is good outside the bedroom, will have a great steamy realtionship in the bedroom.  Both kind of feed off each other.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Where 'none' exists, there's nothing to rob.  I think it's better than living days on end w/o any sort of 'release'...I know plenty of guys who have gone months without...their wives - one wife in particular - who has simply said she no longer wants or will allow for sex with him.  He's not big on divorce; and he can't see moving to POVERTY this state's child-support Nazis invoke...so he lives with her...miserable...and praying for change.
> 
> He's a better man than I.


I know a man whose first wife died.  This woman he now has, has not had sex with him for 10 years.  She has no desire to go to the doctor or therapy or any other solution; she doesn't want to have sex with Everett.   She tells him to go into the bathroom with a magazine.  I find her to be a hateful woman.  
He says he out lived the first wife, he'll out live this one.  He has no intentions of letting her take any of his hard earned money/pension.  So he lives in misery.  Seems to now cry "victim" because of the situation.  But it's his choice.

The shame is that women grab a man by his b*lls and the courts squeeze.  I believe a man has a responsibility to his children...no matter how much he hates their mother.  There are plenty of "dead-beat dads", really scummy men.  But that doesn't make the woman always right, either.  When does the man get a break?


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> I know a man whose first wife died.  This woman he now has, has not had sex with him for 10 years.  She has no desire to go to the doctor or therapy or any other solution; she doesn't want to have sex with Everett.   She tells him to go into the bathroom with a magazine.  I find her to be a hateful woman.
> He says he out lived the first wife, he'll out live this one.  He has no intentions of letting her take any of his hard earned money/pension.  So he lives in misery.  Seems to now cry "victim" because of the situation.  But it's his choice.
> 
> The shame is that women grab a man by his b*lls and the courts squeeze.  I believe a man has a responsibility to his children...no matter how much he hates their mother.  There are plenty of "dead-beat dads", really scummy men.  But that doesn't make the woman always right, either.  When does the man get a break?



I do suppose we could have a lengthy thread about 'child support = riches for mom, poverty for dad" in some cases...sorry to steer your thread that way..

re: the Widdower...

Yeah - honestly? if my kids were grown, or we had never had kids, I doubt my wife would be my wife today.  But Everett is to be applauded...for 'better or WORSE' right?


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Absolutely vital!!  The difference seems to be that couples who make sure their relationship is good outside the bedroom, will have a great steamy realtionship in the bedroom.  Both kind of feed off each other.


I still don't know why this is so hard to understand.  The engery bounces back and forth.  Sometimes the scales tip one way more than the other, but needs of all sorts are constantly being met.  The theory is very simple.  Accomplishing it is a great task.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I do suppose we could have a lengthy thread about 'child support = riches for mom, poverty for dad" in some cases...sorry to steer your thread that way..


 Hey, start your own thread.


> Yeah - honestly? if my kids were grown, or we had never had kids, I doubt my wife would be my wife today.  But Everett is to be applauded...for 'better or WORSE' right?


For better or for worse?  I would agree if this woman had a chronic illness, sick from the treatment, that when she wan't in bed she was hanging her head in a toilet.  This is not the case.  *She doesn't have the slightest concern for Everett*.  She has broken the marriage covenant many years ago.


----------



## Joz

Sir Evil said:
			
		

> A boy has a penis and a girl has a vagina!


Gee, I don't know how we made it this far into the thread without you.


----------



## Trinity

Sir Evil said:
			
		

> A boy has a penis and a girl has a vagina!


----------



## Shattered

Sir Evil said:
			
		

> A boy has a penis and a girl has a vagina!




Reeeeeeaaaaaaallllllllllyyyyy..  That's outstanding..  Now, do you know where babies come from?


----------



## Mr. P

Shattered said:
			
		

> Reeeeeeaaaaaaallllllllllyyyyy..  That's outstanding..  Now, do you know where babies come from?


The Stork of course..


----------



## dmp

o re: Women who 'refuse sex' to their husbands...

I think it can be because women like to 'brag' about not having sex w/ their mates. There's a sense of power and control there. Today, especially women, are taught to not be 'dependant' and a man who is 'dependant' on a woman has 'issues'. I say marriage is ALL about co-dependancy to a point. I have to depend on my wife for keeping the house running; she depends on me to keep 'employed'. I depend on her for love and affection. She depends on me for spiritual support/guidance, etc...


----------



## dmp

Shattered said:
			
		

> Now, do you know where babies come from?



www.ebayKids.com ?


----------



## Trinity

dilloduck said:
			
		

> and--------------------??????? lets get to the juicy stuff, MOM. :rotflmao:





You'll have to wait for the juicy stuff, Mom4 is still sitting on the soccer fields!


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> o re: Women who 'refuse sex' to their husbands...
> 
> I think it can be because women like to 'brag' about not having sex w/ their mates. There's a sense of power and control there. Today, especially women, are taught to not be 'dependant' and a man who is 'dependant' on a woman has 'issues'. I say marriage is ALL about co-dependancy to a point. I have to depend on my wife for keeping the house running; she depends on me to keep 'employed'. I depend on her for love and affection. She depends on me for spiritual support/guidance, etc...


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> www.ebayKids.com ?


This didn't take me where I think you intended.   
(I guess that's appropriate in this thread. huh?)


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> This didn't take me where I think you intended.
> (I guess that's appropriate in this thread. huh?)




shouldnt take you anywhere...I made it up! lol..didnt check it though..   Hope it's not porn.


----------



## Shattered

Heh.. Guess eBay's looking to expand, huh..


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> shouldnt take you anywhere...I made it up! lol..didnt check it though..   Hope it's not porn.


No, it wasn't porn.  But you ought to check out stuff before you link ME to it.  I'm fragile.  It just said that the domain was reserved.


----------



## Nienna

dilloduck said:
			
		

> and--------------------??????? lets get to the juicy stuff, MOM. :rotflmao:



The juicy stuff is private!    :


----------



## Said1

-=d=- said:
			
		

> o re: Women who 'refuse sex' to their husbands...
> 
> I think it can be because women like to 'brag' about not having sex w/ their mates.



I think that's very true of _some_ women, (not me of course!) bizzare really??


----------



## Trinity

mom4 said:
			
		

> The juicy stuff is private!    :




Why is the embarrased smilie not surprising although I was expecting to see something more like this......................


----------



## Nienna

Trinity said:
			
		

> Why is the embarrased smilie not surprising although I was expecting to see something more like this......................



well, I know he was just teasing!  :funnyface


----------



## Said1

mom4 said:
			
		

> well, I know he was just teasing!  :funnyface




Ha, don't count on it!


----------



## Nienna

Said1 said:
			
		

> Ha, don't count on it!



I like to give the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## Avatar4321

Shattered said:
			
		

> Reeeeeeaaaaaaallllllllllyyyyy..  That's outstanding..  Now, do you know where babies come from?



No. Where do they come from miss?


----------



## Shattered

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> No. Where do they come from miss?



   :funnyface


----------



## NATO AIR

I wonder how you have a successful relationship with someone that you hardly ever see or get to spend time with.  How do you have intimacy, how do you build and hold trust?
That's what sucks about being in the Navy as far as relationships go, you're out to sea so much (6-8 months of the year for us) how in the hell do you find the time to be with the one you love?  I always admire those who are able to pull it off, but I cannot, and that's why I refuse to date or have a relationship until I've left the service.
And in a sense, it isn't just the navy this relates to, but also people who are traveling businessmen, government employees, etc etc.


----------



## freeandfun1

NATO AIR said:
			
		

> I wonder how you have a successful relationship with someone that you hardly ever see or get to spend time with.  How do you have intimacy, how do you build and hold trust?
> That's what sucks about being in the Navy as far as relationships go, you're out to sea so much (6-8 months of the year for us) how in the hell do you find the time to be with the one you love?  I always admire those who are able to pull it off, but I cannot, and that's why I refuse to date or have a relationship until I've left the service.
> 
> And in a sense, it isn't just the navy this relates to, but also people who are traveling businessmen, government employees, etc etc.



What you do is make the time you do have together very special.  You also communicate as much as possible when traveling.  Either by email, snail-mail or telephone.  It is possible and lots of people do it.  The old adage is true in the case (IMO) - it isn't the quantity of time together, but the quality of time together.  

There are many that are together every day but do not share intimacy with each other.  That, in my opinion, is worse than being apart.


----------



## Bonnie

Said1 said:
			
		

> I think that's very true of _some_ women, (not me of course!) bizzare really??



That's that whole sex as a weapon, I never really understood that either, seems like your doing more harm than good.  There's a saying that asks.."would you rather be right or happy?"  Besides real power over a man requires them respecting you.  IMO


----------



## NATO AIR

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> What you do is make the time you do have together very special.  You also communicate as much as possible when traveling.  Either by email, snail-mail or telephone.  It is possible and lots of people do it.  The old adage is true in the case (IMO) - it isn't the quantity of time together, but the quality of time together.
> 
> There are many that are together every day but do not share intimacy with each other.  That, in my opinion, is worse than being apart.



I respect that Free and that is the "ideal", but it doesn't take into account her/his friends that don't like you, scheming people on the side that want you out of the picture, doubts caused by rumors and heresay, etc etc.  Hell, and if the family doesn't like you, you're fucked (not just my case but many others I've known as well, not only in the military but also in college)


----------



## freeandfun1

NATO AIR said:
			
		

> I respect that Free and that is the "ideal", but it doesn't take into account her/his friends that don't like you, scheming people on the side that want you out of the picture, doubts caused by rumors and heresay, etc etc.  Hell, and if the family doesn't like you, you're fucked (not just my case but many others I've known as well, not only in the military but also in college)



Yes, but if the woman you marry is that weak, her family is that cruel and her friends are that fucked up, in my opinion, you shouldn't marry her in the first place.  Never ever marry a woman whose family dislikes you.  That is a sure fire way to ensure a marriage doesn't work.  Same for you, never ever marry a woman that your family doesn't like.


----------



## NATO AIR

freeandfun1 said:
			
		

> Yes, but if the woman you marry is that weak, her family is that cruel and her friends are that fucked up, in my opinion, you shouldn't marry her in the first place.  Never ever marry a woman whose family dislikes you.  That is a sure fire way to ensure a marriage doesn't work.  Same for you, never ever marry a woman that your family doesn't like.



Its not for marriage, but just for a good relationship for a while.

If you dated only women/men you would marry, it would be more than likely be one brutal heartbreak after another over and over again.


----------



## Avatar4321

NATO AIR said:
			
		

> I wonder how you have a successful relationship with someone that you hardly ever see or get to spend time with.  How do you have intimacy, how do you build and hold trust?
> That's what sucks about being in the Navy as far as relationships go, you're out to sea so much (6-8 months of the year for us) how in the hell do you find the time to be with the one you love?  I always admire those who are able to pull it off, but I cannot, and that's why I refuse to date or have a relationship until I've left the service.
> And in a sense, it isn't just the navy this relates to, but also people who are traveling businessmen, government employees, etc etc.



Ive seen someone do it through writing each other. keeping the communication channels open. It is alot tougher though.


----------



## dmp

This was a great thread with good discussion - I hope it doesn't fade out.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> This was a great thread with good discussion - I hope it doesn't fade out.



with Joz around??---not a chance. :tng:


----------



## no1tovote4

dilloduck said:
			
		

> with Joz around??---not a chance. :tng:




Redheads are like that...


----------



## Avatar4321

no1tovote4 said:
			
		

> Redheads are like that...



I like red heads. they are hott. well alot of them are.


----------



## Shattered

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> I like red heads. they are hott. well alot of them are.



We're "hot", too.  :tng:


----------



## no1tovote4

Shattered said:
			
		

> We're "hot", too.  :tng:




 :hail:


----------



## Avatar4321

Shattered said:
			
		

> We're "hot", too.  :tng:



Its all the same to me


----------



## dmp

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> Its all the same to me




itts all tthe same tto me, ttoo!


----------



## dilloduck

Shattered said:
			
		

> We're "hot", too.  :tng:



hopefully "hot" women are prepared for hot consequences


----------



## Shattered

dilloduck said:
			
		

> hopefully "hot" women are prepared for hot consequences



I'll trust that's merely a flippant comment from someone who is irritated at being totally ignored, rather than the veiled threat it sounds like.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> with Joz around??---not a chance. :tng:


Mornin' boys!


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> o re: Women who 'refuse sex' to their husbands...
> 
> I think it can be because women like to 'brag' about not having sex w/ their mates. There's a sense of power and control there. Today, especially women, are taught to not be 'dependant' and a man who is 'dependant' on a woman has 'issues'. I say marriage is ALL about co-dependancy to a point. I have to depend on my wife for keeping the house running; she depends on me to keep 'employed'. I depend on her for love and affection. She depends on me for spiritual support/guidance, etc...


The term you're referring to here is "interdependance"; independant in a relationship.


----------



## no1tovote4

Joz said:
			
		

> Mornin' boys!




Mornin', Lady.


----------



## Joz

So, what's it gonna be today?

I see Avatar & -=d=- are starting the day _lying_, saying "It's all the same to me".


----------



## dmp

hurm...

You come up with a topic. 

I'm too shy.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> hurm...
> You come up with a topic.  I'm too shy.


 :rotflmao: 

When or at what moment did you realize your partner was THE ONE?  Or did it just evolve and marriage was the next step?

We had dated a few months & were on the way to a gig.  We were talking religion and MM made reference to something in particular that shocked me he even knew about.  _I_ knew then.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> :rotflmao:
> 
> When or at what moment did you realize your partner was THE ONE?  Or did it just evolve and marriage was the next step?




I realized it a few days ago, honestly.

Up until that point, a few days ago, I'd was hoping she'd 'be' the one...Now...there's no doubt she is.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I realized it a few days ago, honestly.
> Up until that point, a few days ago, I'd was hoping she'd 'be' the one...Now...there's no doubt she is.


We are talking about your wife, aren't we?


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> We are talking about your wife, aren't we?



Indeed.


----------



## Nienna

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I realized it a few days ago, honestly.
> 
> Up until that point, a few days ago, I'd was hoping she'd 'be' the one...Now...there's no doubt she is.



Okay, so what happened a few days ago?


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

-=d=- said:
			
		

> hurm...
> 
> You come up with a topic.
> 
> I'm too shy.


Butt sex....
Yes or No???
I say No


----------



## Avatar4321

Joz said:
			
		

> So, what's it gonna be today?
> 
> I see Avatar & -=d=- are starting the day _lying_, saying "It's all the same to me".



I dont lie. Ill see you in court for defamation. jk (atleast about the court stuff. i really dont lie)


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> hopefully "hot" women are prepared for hot consequences


Rape is about power.  It doesn't matter the age, dress, or anything else about the victim.  Only that she was.

But what about, just plain attention?  I like looking at pretty girls; those that take pride in the way they look.    Are you flirtier with a woman who's dressed more provocatively?  What do you _really_ think of a woman who shows off her 'goods'?  Do you tag her more "easy"?  Does your wife dress seductively to go out?  Does she at home?  Is it important to you that she look her 'best' at home?  Does it affect your libido?


----------



## dmp

mom4 said:
			
		

> Okay, so what happened a few days ago?




...that I realized she's the 'one'.  


However - understand I don't believe in there being 'a' person for everyone...I think there are thousands of men - probably more - who could make my wife just as happy or happier than I have...and vice versa.

I'm saying, it was only a few days ago that I started thinking of her as 'the one' in terms of being 'what I've wanted in a wife'.  Up until recently, I was in the marriage believing she could 'become' the woman she is.  God honored that faith, it seems.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Rape is about power.  It doesn't matter the age, dress, or anything else about the victim.  Only that she was.




True rape...perhaps. "legal" rape, maybe not.


----------



## Joz

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> I dont lie. Ill see you in court for defamation. jk (atleast about the court stuff. i really dont lie)


You made a false statement.  It DOES matter to you what the girl is like. It matters to each one of us.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> True rape...perhaps. "legal" rape, maybe not.


Ok, now I'm confused.  You're gonna have to expalin this.


----------



## Avatar4321

Joz said:
			
		

> You made a false statement.  It DOES matter to you what the girl is like. It matters to each one of us.



I wasn't saying it didnt matter what a girl is like. What I said is it doesnt matter if you call them hott or hot:


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> You made a false statement.  It DOES matter to you what the girl is like. It matters to each one of us.





yeah - I'm confused too - When did I say 'it doesn't matter what the girl is like" or whatever...in your first post today? dunno what that means..


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Ok, now I'm confused.  You're gonna have to expalin this.



There have been men wrongly convicted of rape.  There are times when this is the scenario:

Guy and girl are in the act of doing it...during the moaning and groaning...the woman mumbles...no...no...he 'continues' for a second or so...then they complete the deed.  Later, she calls the police, because she said 'no'.  


I also remember reading about a guy who was asleep in bed. A drunk woman came into his room, got on top of him and rode him like a banshee.  She pressed rape charges, because he 'should have known' she was drunk, and he 'took advantage' of the situation.

:-/


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> yeah - I'm confused too - When did I say 'it doesn't matter what the girl is like" or whatever...in your first post today? dunno what that means..


Post 163 Avatar said, "It's all the same to me".  Post 164 -=d=- agreed.  I realize you both were talking about hair color.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Post 163 Avatar said, "It's all the same to me".  Post 164 -=d=- agreed.  I realize you both were talking about hair color.




I was just giving him crap for his typo...and yeah...hair colour does NOT matter, in my view  


'having' hair, however, generally DOES matter a little bit.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> There have been men wrongly convicted of rape.....
> Guy and girl are in the act of doing it...during the moaning and groaning...the woman mumbles...no...no...he 'continues' for a second or so...then they complete the deed.  Later, she calls the police, because she said 'no'....
> I also remember reading about a guy who was asleep in bed. A drunk woman came into his room, got on top of him and rode him like a banshee.  She pressed rape charges, because he 'should have known' she was drunk, and he 'took advantage' of the situation.:-/


 MM sometimes walks to the bar to see me.  And there have been women (& men)  that have offered a ride.  I fear one of these women ( a couple in particular)will holler rape.  There would be no truth to it, but I'm afraid he could be charged with _attempted rape_.  It would be the "he said, she said"  propsition.

A girl gets the guilts mid-coitus.  Should a guy have to have a signed affadavit before proceeding?  What do we do aboutit?


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> ....'having' hair, however, generally DOES matter a little bit.


Depends on where it's at, wouldn't you agree?  I, personally, don't see a 'hairy cleavage' all that appealing.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> MM sometimes walks to the bar to see me.  And there have been women (& men)  that have offered a ride.  I fear one of these women ( a couple in particular)will holler rape.  There would be no truth to it, but I'm afraid he could be charged with _attempted rape_.  It would be the "he said, she said"  propsition.
> 
> A girl gets the guilts mid-coitus.  Should a guy have to have a signed affadavit before proceeding?  What do we do aboutit?




Yup - there just aren't any easy answers.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Depends on where it's at, wouldn't you agree?  I, personally, don't see a 'hairy cleavage' all that appealing.




Indeed.   Hair, of substantial amount, should be regulated to the top of a woman's head.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Yup - there just aren't any easy answers.


Yes, a man is at a disadvantage when it comes to this.  But then, how does a wife prove that she was indeed raped by her husband?   A friend of my mother's had this happen to her.  She was seperated from her husband, he came to her house one night.


----------



## Nienna

Has anyone ever heard of a man being raped by a woman? I can see why this would be less likely, since men are generally stronger (physically) than women.


----------



## Joz

Mom4 brought up a book about the "language of love".  Different people need different kinds of love in varying degrees.  So what if you're one who needs "physical touch".  How do you go about getting your needs met?  What happens when they aren't?
And if you're a "gift" person, what kinds of gifts do you need?  Diamonds, flowers, a candy bar?  Is it just the act or does the gift really matter?
And if you're a "quality time" person, how do you spend your time?


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever heard of a man being raped by a woman? I can see why this would be less likely, since men are generally stronger (physically) than women.


As a matter of fact, yes I have.


----------



## no1tovote4

mom4 said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever heard of a man being raped by a woman? I can see why this would be less likely, since men are generally stronger (physically) than women.




Men are usually raped by men, however a weapon can even the playing field and when in fear a man can often provide the needed equipment.


----------



## padisha emperor

The men are often the rapers, but the women can be too.
it is rare, but I heard also one of this affair.

Everybody think usually that the sexual obsession of a ot of men and their physical strength do that it is impossible for a woman to rape a man. But it is possible, of course.
And a man raped by a woman feels not really better than a woman raped by a man.


----------



## Joz

padisha emperor said:
			
		

> .....
> And a man raped by a woman feels not really better than a woman raped by a man.


*Anything* forced on a person isn't & doesn't feel good.  But this is the ultimate wrong.
If we speak in terms of men being raped in the 'natural' sense (penis/vagina) there's not too many men on the board that would complain.  But if you realize that women have raped men rectally, with _objects_, it takes on whole different perspective.


----------



## -Cp

I think it's a sad state when folks go around discussing their sex lives on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD! LOL...


----------



## Joz

-Cp said:
			
		

> I think it's a sad state when folks go around discussing their sex lives on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD! LOL...


Could it be that you don't have one to discuss?

Besides, we've been discussing sex.  No one had discussed their sex life.


----------



## padisha emperor

> Anything forced on a person isn't & doesn't feel good. But this is the ultimate wrong.
> If we speak in terms of men being raped in the 'natural' sense (penis/vagina) there's not too many men on the board that would complain. But if you realize that women have raped men rectally, with objects, it takes on whole different perspective.



sure, a rectal rape is more problematic for the men. but there is probably men who were forced to have a sexual relation penis/vagina with a woman, who didn't wish it - maybe they were forced by fear, violence, threaten..... - .
It is a rape.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Could it be that you don't have one to discuss?


 some are just more famous than others :funnyface


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> some are just more famous than others :funnyface


I'm not following you line of thinking.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I'm not following you line of thinking.




My bad----tried to make a joke on a serious thread. :coffee3:


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> My bad----tried to make a joke on a serious thread. :coffee3:


I KNOW it was a joke.  I just didn't get it.  So....explain.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I KNOW it was a joke.  I just didn't get it.  So....explain.



Cmon Joz---if it was THAT bad there's no point.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Cmon Joz---if it was THAT bad there's no point.


Yeah, if you have to explain, it sort of loses it's zing.  Still, I'm bored. I could use a good sex joke.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Yeah, if you have to explain, it sort of loses it's zing.  Still, I'm bored. I could use a good sex joke.




hint--humor section ! :teeth:


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> hint--humor section ! :teeth:


Are you referring to nipples?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Are you referring to nipples?



ya I see you were already there--nevermind


----------



## Avatar4321

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I was just giving him crap for his typo...and yeah...hair colour does NOT matter, in my view
> 
> 
> 'having' hair, however, generally DOES matter a little bit.



It wasn't a typo.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> ya I see you were already there--nevermind


So what about them?  They are necessary, you know.  And when they're visible WHY does it have to be brought to everyone's attention?


----------



## Avatar4321

-Cp said:
			
		

> I think it's a sad state when folks go around discussing their sex lives on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD! LOL...



I have a sex like? who knew!


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> So what about them?  They are necessary, you know.  And when they're visible WHY does it have to be brought to everyone's attention?



You mean why do women want to accentuate them?


----------



## Said1

dilloduck said:
			
		

> You mean why do women want to accentuate them?




Are we talking nipples or boobs here?


----------



## dilloduck

Said1 said:
			
		

> Are we talking nipples or boobs here?




I think Joz was referring to nipples


----------



## Said1

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I think Joz was referring to nipples




OMG, I'm too tired for this discussion. I'm going home.  :coffee3:


----------



## dilloduck

Said1 said:
			
		

> OMG, I'm too tired for this discussion. I'm going home.  :coffee3:


walk safely !


----------



## Said1

dilloduck said:
			
		

> walk safely !



It's ok, I'm not going far!


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> You mean why do women want to accentuate them?


No.  Some women want to accentuate them strictly because men like it.
I'm just wondering why some people have to comment when in fact nipples are visible.  I think the 'average' woman prefers no comment.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> No.  Some women want to accentuate them strictly because men like it.
> I'm just wondering why some people have to comment when in fact nipples are visible.  I think the 'average' woman prefers no comment.




Ya got any "average " people where ya work?


----------



## Joz

Speaking of nipples.....
Has anyone ever taken a nude or semi-nude pictures of themselves and sent it to someone?  Would you?

I had a neighbor, who went to a photo booth, dropped his drawers, took a picture, and sent it to his girlfriend.   Her dad got ahold of it...the picture, I mean.  It was ugly...(I mean the incident)


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Ya got any "average " people where ya work?


A couple.  The rest are _crazy_


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Speaking of nipples.....
> Has anyone ever taken a nude or semi-nude pictures of themselves and sent it to someone?  Would you?
> 
> I had a neighbor, who went to a photo booth, dropped his drawers, took a picture, and sent it to his girlfriend.   Her dad got ahold of it...the picture, I mean.  It was ugly...(I mean the incident)


  Doesn't everybody? :teeth:


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Speaking of nipples.....
> Has anyone ever taken a nude or semi-nude pictures of themselves and sent it to someone?  Would you?
> 
> I had a neighbor, who went to a photo booth, dropped his drawers, took a picture, and sent it to his girlfriend.   Her dad got ahold of it...the picture, I mean.  It was ugly...(I mean the incident)





Trust me when I say...NOBODY....I mean "No Person alive" would want to see anything CLOSE a to 'nude' photo of me.   I've not found anyone I've hated enough to send a nude or semi-nude picture of me.

Where's that :vomit or uke smiliey?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> A couple.  The rest are _crazy_




well there's your answer!!


----------



## Joz

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> I have a sex like? who knew!


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

>




For some reason, I think Joz knows .


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Trust me when I say...NOBODY....I mean "No Person alive" would want to see anything CLOSE a to 'nude' photo of me.   I've not found anyone I've hated enough to send a nude or semi-nude picture of me.
> 
> Where's that :vomit or uke smiliey?


You guys tell me, 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".  So.....I'll look for you in the picture forum, or the adult?         :tng: 

SometimesI look at a person and wonder what they see in the person they're with.  Maybe that's why I feel sorry for MM.  I think people are doing the same thing with us.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> For some reason, I think Joz knows .


How the heck would _I_ know anything about Avatar's sex life???


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> You guys tell me, 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".  So.....I'll look for you in the picture forum, or the adult?         :tng:
> 
> SometimesI look at a person and wonder what they see in the person they're with.  Maybe that's why I feel sorry for MM.  I think people are doing the same thing with us.




Got that close to right..

Beauty is in the eye of the BEER-holder... 

And yeah...I have NO part of my body, below my eyes, which any normal person would have ANY interest in seeing. 

I *detest* my body.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Got that close to right..
> 
> Beauty is in the eye of the BEER-holder...


 Ha ha.


> I have NO part of my body, below my eyes, which any normal person would have ANY interest in seeing.


That's your opinion. People find different things attractive. 





> I *detest* my body.


But that's YOU.  Are you telling me you keep the lights off when you have sex, or stay under the covers?


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Ha ha.
> That's your opinion. People find different things attractive. But that's YOU.  Are you telling me you keep the lights off when you have sex, or stay under the covers?




Regardless of whether it's my opinion or not, I have objective eyes, and know what I see.  I know beauty. I know form. I know where things are supposed to be.  I know what a proper, attractive male body resembles.  Mine doesn't happen to resemble that.  I don't suffer from unhealthy self-esteem; rather I can look in the mirror and critique what I see.    I don't keep the lights off, and never stay under covers.  Frankly, I prefer dim lighting and just a couple/three pillows.  

Honestly, when 'in bed', I'm more focused on my wife's body; I sorta feel bad she has to look at mine. 

But...she puts up with it...I 'am' trying to slim down; although I doubt I'll ever be 'skinny'.


----------



## Annie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Regardless of whether it's my opinion or not, I have objective eyes, and know what I see.  I know beauty. I know form. I know where things are supposed to be.  I know what a proper, attractive male body resembles.  Mine doesn't happen to resemble that.  I don't suffer from unhealthy self-esteem; rather I can look in the mirror and critique what I see.    I don't keep the lights off, and never stay under covers.  Frankly, I prefer dim lighting and just a couple/three pillows.
> 
> Honestly, when 'in bed', I'm more focused on my wife's body; I sorta feel bad she has to look at mine.
> 
> But...she puts up with it...I 'am' trying to slim down; although I doubt I'll ever be 'skinny'.



Get ready -=D=- support from unlikely quarters!  I accept your assessment of the 'ideal' form for the male physique. I accept your reflection that you fall a bit short. 

Within those given, do you really think that more than a few, probably narcissitic guys or on the other side, women do? Unlikely. Which is where I've never understood those that think that pics or displays with less clothing is a wonderful idea.

Candles are always a good idea.   If your mate loves you, the rest is not seen! What you see as shortcomings are not noticed.


----------



## Annie

-Cp said:
			
		

> I think it's a sad state when folks go around discussing their sex lives on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD! LOL...



Something to be said for this post!


----------



## Joz

Kathianne said:
			
		

> .....


Wow, K in the sex thread.  And with good observation, too.  Glad to have you aboard.

And -=d=-, we all fall short.  On Dr Phil's show a woman was on there wanting to look like Jessica Simpson.  (why I don't know) But this woman tho't she was absolutely  beautiful.  Phil said he's met Simpson and _she_ doesn't even look like what we see.  She's pretty, but no great beauty.  

But, I do know exactly how you feel, tho'.  I can look in the mirror.  I know what I see.  I'm always amazed when some man even speaks to me.  I can't figure it out.


----------



## NATO AIR

-Cp said:
			
		

> I think it's a sad state when folks go around discussing their sex lives on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD! LOL...



That's those of you who have sex lives


----------



## Joz

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Something to be said for this post!


I don't think so.  Relationships are tough sometimes.  Sex is just a fun part of that.  And surely you understand, men need all the help they can get.   :happy2:


----------



## Annie

NATO AIR said:
			
		

> That's those of you who have sex lives



We all have a sex life, whether it's what we want or not is another subject altogether.


----------



## Joz

NATO AIR said:
			
		

> That's those of you who have sex lives


You're on a boat.  You don't need a sex life.    :tng:


----------



## NATO AIR

Kathianne said:
			
		

> We all have a sex life, whether it's what we want or not is another subject altogether.



The price of sex is too high right now (and I"m not talking about money)

Unless Selma Hayek wants to have my out of wedlock child....


----------



## NATO AIR

Joz said:
			
		

> You're on a boat.  You don't need a sex life.    :tng:



 :teeth: I know some folks on the boat who have a sex life on the boat at sea.


----------



## -Cp

Joz said:
			
		

> Could it be that you don't have one to discuss?
> 
> Besides, we've been discussing sex.  No one had discussed their sex life.



Nope... that's me - no sex life.... 

Tell that to my wife who has birthed four kids.. lol

Still "odd" to be talking about "sex" w/ strangers on a forum that keeps what you type up there...


----------



## Said1

-Cp said:
			
		

> Nope... that's me - no sex life....
> 
> Tell that to my wife who has birthed four kids.. lol
> 
> Still "odd" to be talking about "sex" w/ strangers on a forum that keeps what you type up there...



What's so odd about it, and what makes you so sure were all strangers to one another?


----------



## Joz

Said1 said:
			
		

> What's so odd about it, and what makes you so sure were all strangers to one another?


Hey Said, I'm glad you joined, too.  Glad you made it home safely from work.

Maybe -Cp means some of us are stranger than others not we're stranger to each other!!!


----------



## Said1

Joz said:
			
		

> Hey Said, I'm glad you joined, too.  Glad you made it home safely from work.



That's was the joke, I work from home, long walk to the couch! 
As for -Cp...whatever. :huh:


----------



## Trinity

Said1 said:
			
		

> What's so odd about it, and what makes you so sure were all strangers to one another?





Yeah what she said!


----------



## dmp

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Get ready -=D=- support from unlikely quarters!  I accept your assessment of the 'ideal' form for the male physique. I accept your reflection that you fall a bit short.
> 
> Within those given, do you really think that more than a few, probably narcissitic guys or on the other side, women do? Unlikely. Which is where I've never understood those that think that pics or displays with less clothing is a wonderful idea.
> 
> Candles are always a good idea.   If your mate loves you, the rest is not seen! What you see as shortcomings are not noticed.




I agree with you in principle;  I know there are very few truly beautiful people out there - compared to a LOT of 'average' people.  Women who are attracted to me, are attracted to 'me'; how i make them feel...not what I 'feel like', I suppose.


I'm a realist, I suppose.


----------



## dmp

-Cp said:
			
		

> Nope... that's me - no sex life....
> 
> Tell that to my wife who has birthed four kids.. lol
> 
> Still "odd" to be talking about "sex" w/ strangers on a forum that keeps what you type up there...




Often it's EASIER chatting with strangers - albeit for the whole world to see.  I wouldn't discuss it with you because it'd be difficult to sit across the table from you knowing that you know I'm hung like a squirrel or something.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> But, I do know exactly how you feel, tho'.  I can look in the mirror.  I know what I see.  I'm always amazed when some man even speaks to me.  I can't figure it out.




I get that way sometimes.  While walking through the Mall, I'll 'notice' people.  Often I'll wonder 'does that person REALLY feel attractive?  Is somebody REALLY attracted to them - physically?'  When I look in the mirror - or at me in pictures I think, sometimes, "eek...if I were a 'real' woman, there's not much chance I'd be hot for a guy like me."


----------



## -Cp

Said1 said:
			
		

> What's so odd about it, and what makes you so sure were all strangers to one another?



If you're not strangers - and know each other in real life then this is ULTRA GEEKY  - ROFLMAO


----------



## 5stringJeff

-=d=- said:
			
		

> 'having' hair, however, generally DOES matter a little bit.




Don't hate the playa... hate the game!


----------



## dmp

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Don't hate the playa... hate the game!




Hey - you look like RightSaidFred...you're too sexy for your Shirt.  M.Campbell, however...


----------



## Said1

-Cp said:
			
		

> If you're not strangers - and know each other in real life then this is ULTRA GEEKY  - ROFLMAO




Well, it would take one to know one - ROFLMAO 

Now I'm going to go make fun of your royal geekness in a thread you started, geek.


----------



## 5stringJeff

-=d=- said:
			
		

> you know I'm hung like a squirrel


----------



## 5stringJeff

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Hey - you look like RightSaidFred...you're too sexy for your Shirt.



You're the first person to ever say that to me.  Honestly.  No sarcasm.  Thanks! 



> M.Campbell, however...



True story: about a year ago, I was talking to her, and she said that she was leaving early that day to go get a haircut.  I wasn't sure if she was joking or not, so I just had to politely nod... talk about your wierd situations.


----------



## Trinity

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZU' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_2_25.gif' border=0></a>


----------



## dmp

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> True story: about a year ago, I was talking to her, and she said that she was leaving early that day to go get a haircut.  I wasn't sure if she was joking or not, so I just had to politely nod... talk about your wierd situations.




wow...that would be HORRIBLE...talk about uncomfortable.


----------



## dmp

Sir Evil said:
			
		

>




He's all balls....


----------



## Trinity

Sir Evil said:
			
		

>




 :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:


----------



## Trinity

Sir Evil said:
			
		

>




Oh my God, my stomach hurts from laughing so hard!


----------



## Joz

Sir Evil said:
			
		

> ......


I knew it had to be you who posted it, without even looking!


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> "eek...if I were a 'real' woman, there's not much chance I'd be hot for a guy like me."


You sell yourself waaaaay to short.  You're a very nice looking man.  
So you're not built like Arnold.  I don't particularly like that.  You have NO REASON to ever hang your head.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> You sell yourself waaaaay to short.  You're a very nice looking man.
> So you're not built like Arnold.  I don't particularly like that.  You have NO REASON to ever hang your head.




Thanks Joz...I don't hang my head...but I have accurate vision.  I know what I like like.  I know how my body is.  Not very physically attractive.  No worries...just reality


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Hey - you look like RightSaidFred...you're too sexy for your Shirt.  M.Campbell, however...


So, we don't get let in on the joke?!


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> So, we don't get let in on the joke?!




no joke...just a coworker...woman who is nearly bald on top.  Perhaps one or two hair strands every inch or three.  it's weird.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Thanks Joz...I don't hang my head...but I have accurate vision.  I know what I like like.  I know how my body is.  Not very physically attractive.  No worries...just reality


Maybe that's the problem.  You're looking thru _your_ eyes.  You ought to try looking thru someone else's eyes.  Someone who loves you.  I think you'd see something different.


----------



## Joz

I just got in from listening to the first set the band played tonight.  There's this little thing that's there tonight, has been out a couple other nights, too.  Looks about 15, but she's soon to be 25.   But, she has already  'offered' herself to the lead singer, Bobby.  This is the 2nd one (that I know) and I'm sure many more, who have met him, and offered to take him home.  I am also aware that some women are crazy just because a man is on the stage.  I've seen women wrap their legs around MM.  I've seen women unzip their pants for him.  And I sit by & watch all this unfold.

But  what is wrong with these girls?  Maybe you fellows looked for this kind of girl when you were single.  But I don't get it, I'm sorry.  In my entire life, I have never had a one-night stand.  I couldn't imagine having a casual sexual relationship with someone.  I don't consider myself a prude. And I will discuss any aspect of sex with anyone, providing it's on an adult level.  I just don't understand this behavior.  Especially with the disease that's out there now.  Please explain it to me.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I just got in from listening to the first set the band played tonight.  There's this little thing that's there tonight, has been out a couple other nights, too.  Looks about 15, but she's soon to be 25.   But, she has already  'offered' herself to the lead singer, Bobby.  This is the 2nd one (that I know) and I'm sure many more, who have met him, and offered to take him home.  I am also aware that some women are crazy just because a man is on the stage.  I've seen women wrap their legs around MM.  I've seen women unzip their pants for him.  And I sit by & watch all this unfold.
> 
> But  what is wrong with these girls?  Maybe you fellows looked for this kind of girl when you were single.  But I don't get it, I'm sorry.  In my entire life, I have never had a one-night stand.  I couldn't imagine having a casual sexual relationship with someone.  I don't consider myself a prude. And I will discuss any aspect of sex with anyone, providing it's on an adult level.  I just don't understand this behavior.  Especially with the disease that's out there now.  Please explain it to me.




It's the theory of the magic dick-----if you screw someone "famous", you are famous


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> It's the theory of the magic dick-----if you screw someone "famous", you are famous


Well that makes everything alright, then.  I understand if you have the groupie mentality.  But not all of them do.

There is this one( I forgot about her) who wants Bobby soooo badly.   I think it's become an obsession.   She says she would be so good for him.  Just how good can you be for someone if they aren't attracted to you?!  She wears his favorite perfume, got hair extentions, has lost 30 lbs, and comes dressed in outfits she thinks he will like.  He just isn't attracted to her.  Why does she think persistence will work?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Well that makes everything alright, then.  I understand if you have the groupie mentality.  But not all of them do.
> 
> There is this one( I forgot about her) who wants Bobby soooo badly.   I think it's become an obsession.   She says she would be so good for him.  Just how good can you be for someone if they aren't attracted to you?!  She wears his favorite perfume, got hair extentions, has lost 30 lbs, and comes dressed in outfits she thinks he will like.  He just isn't attracted to her.  Why does she think persistence will work?



I never said it was OK--I just answered you

She's desperate


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I never said it was OK--I just answered you


I know you never said it was ok.  



> She's desperate


She's not a bad looking lady; older than I  expected.  Has a grown daughter.  Works.  I think something's amiss.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was OK--I just answered you[/quoote]I know you never said it was ok.
> 
> She's not a bad looking lady; older than I  expected.  Has a grown daughter.  Works.  I think something's amiss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> desperate to feel young and "attractive" again?
Click to expand...


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> desperate to feel young and "attractive" again?


Well who doesn't??  Still I don't go inviting men home I just met.  Nor wiggle my ass for them.  Whatever happened to ladies being ladies.  I know this sounds like  the 'pregnant & barefoot theory" & I don't mean it like that.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Well who doesn't??  Still I don't go inviting men home I just met.  Nor wiggle my ass for them.  Whatever happened to ladies being ladies.  I know this sounds like  the 'pregnant & barefoot theory" & I don't mean it like that.


Times are a changing ,Joz----Hell, I pick my kid up from school and all the girls thongs are hanging out and boobs bouncing all over the damn place.


----------



## Annie

Joz said:
			
		

> Well who doesn't??  Still I don't go inviting men home I just met.  Nor wiggle my ass for them.  Whatever happened to ladies being ladies.  I know this sounds like  the 'pregnant & barefoot theory" & I don't mean it like that.



One would wonder if the one asking such a question ever felt worthy of someone attractive? LOL More than likely, not.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Times are a changing ,Joz----Hell, I pick my kid up from school and all the girls thongs are hanging out and boobs bouncing all over the damn place.


But is this how we want our daughters to behave?  My son teaches guitar to a girl 15 years old.  He's afraid to be in the same room with her; keeps the door open a bit.  When her mom signed her up, she asked the store personnel if the teacher was "good looking"?  What difference did that make if she was there to learn the guitar?  Aaron says she dresses _quite_ provocatively; would never let his daughter out of the house looking like that.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> But is this how we want our daughters to behave?  My son teaches guitar to a girl 15 years old.  He's afraid to be in the same room with her; keeps the door open a bit.  When her mom signed her up, she asked the store personnel if the teacher was "good looking"?  What difference did that make if she was there to learn the guitar?  Aaron says she dresses _quite_ provocatively; would never let his daughter out of the house looking like that.



All you can do is raise you own the best ya can--and THAT's no guarantee


----------



## Annie

I just realized that what I posted after sounded not so nice. Wanted to make clear it was not to JOZ:

Originally Posted by dilloduck
desperate to feel young and "attractive" again?

Don't think Joz has a problem with the sentiments. Don't know anyone that would.


----------



## dilloduck

Kathianne said:
			
		

> I just realized that what I posted after sounded not so nice. Wanted to make clear it was not to JOZ:
> 
> Originally Posted by dilloduck
> desperate to feel young and "attractive" again?
> 
> Don't think Joz has a problem with the sentiments. Don't know anyone that would.



with all due respect, I think a hell of a lot of women are trying to look young again. Check out the make-up ads.


----------



## Avatar4321

Joz said:
			
		

> How the heck would _I_ know anything about Avatar's sex life???



Good question. I dont even know about it.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> with all due respect, I think a hell of a lot of women are trying to look young again. Check out the make-up ads.


Is that so bad?  Why not look the best you can?  I don't think I would have an _extreme_ makeover, but a nip & tuck maybe if I weren't such a chicken.  I'm waiting for lasers to do the trick or an 'at-home' kit.  By then, I'll be too old to care.


----------



## dilloduck

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> Good question. I dont even know about it.



well she sure gave ya the multi sarcastic look----I'd flame her for it


----------



## Avatar4321

Joz said:
			
		

> Whatever happened to ladies being ladies.  I know this sounds like  the 'pregnant & barefoot theory" & I don't mean it like that.



Men stopped being men. If Men started being men again, ladies would be ladies.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> well she sure gave ya the multi sarcastic look----I'd flame her for it


Well, you piss wad, you.  Thanks for taking my side.


----------



## Joz

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> Men stopped being men. If Men started being men again, ladies would be ladies.


Maybe not but that would be a good place to start.  Didn't I say that a long time ago?  In fact haven't some of us argued that point before?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Well, you piss wad, you.  Thanks for taking my side.



I'm fair, balanced and unbiased---just the facts maam---keep emotion and religion out of everything !!!


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Maybe not but that would be a good place to start.  Didn't I say that a long time ago?  In fact haven't some of us argued that point before?



I'm going to get my club :cof:


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I'm going to get my club :cof:


Anytime.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Anytime.




there ya go----forgettin that female role again !


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> there ya go----forgettin that female role again !


----------



## -Cp

SWEET MOTHER OF MOSES - can someone please just make the madness of this thread stop?!??!


----------



## Trinity

Joz said:
			
		

> I just got in from listening to the first set the band played tonight.  There's this little thing that's there tonight, has been out a couple other nights, too.  Looks about 15, but she's soon to be 25.   But, she has already  'offered' herself to the lead singer, Bobby.  This is the 2nd one (that I know) and I'm sure many more, who have met him, and offered to take him home.  I am also aware that some women are crazy just because a man is on the stage.  I've seen women wrap their legs around MM.  I've seen women unzip their pants for him.  And I sit by & watch all this unfold.




You are a brave women don't know if I would be able to sit through that! I would have to get up and say something, like, do you realize that you are acting like a Whore!

Never could understand the whole groupie thing, jeez just thinking about how many women some of those band members have been with was enough to make me keep my distance!


Looking forward to that set tonight though!


----------



## Trinity

-Cp said:
			
		

> SWEET MOTHER OF MOSES - can someone please just make the madness of this thread stop?!??!




Are you having a hard time dealing with this thread?


----------



## Nienna

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Thanks Joz...I don't hang my head...but I have accurate vision.  I know what I like like.  I know how my body is.  Not very physically attractive.  No worries...just reality




Different women are attracted to different things. I personally prefer a man with a meatier build. (Now, guys, don't go making comments about _meat_ !) Those shiny, hairless body builders just don't do it for me. 

Your pictures are very attractive. Ask your wife.


----------



## Nienna

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Times are a changing ,Joz----Hell, I pick my kid up from school and all the girls thongs are hanging out and boobs bouncing all over the damn place.



I had a conversation with my pastor about this. He also teaches ISS at the high school. He is a rather portly man, and he still has half-dressed girls coming up and hugging him. He says if it is a struggle for him, how hard is it for all the hormone-ridden teen boys?

He thinks the girls are looking for daddies. Their daddies just aren't there for them. Like I have said before, it is sooooo important for a girl to have a good relationship with her father in order to see herself as a woman who is worth something.


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> Well who doesn't??  Still I don't go inviting men home I just met.  Nor wiggle my ass for them.  Whatever happened to ladies being ladies.  I know this sounds like  the 'pregnant & barefoot theory" & I don't mean it like that.




I know exactly what you mean. Women are so sexually aggressive these days. Not that a woman shouldn't enjoy it, but don't you find it more exciting to be pursued than to pursue? How do the men feel about this? Do you really respect a woman who chases you?


----------



## dilloduck

mom4 said:
			
		

> I know exactly what you mean. Women are so sexually aggressive these days. Not that a woman shouldn't enjoy it, but don't you find it more exciting to be pursued than to pursue? How do the men feel about this? Do you really respect a woman who chases you?



Subtle aggression is sort of enjoyable and I respect it. I think a woman who is willing to take a few risks in the dating game shows some confidence.


----------



## Nienna

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Subtle aggression is sort of enjoyable and I respect it. I think a woman who is willing to take a few risks in the dating game shows some confidence.



*SUBTLE* is the key word. That used to be the feminine mystique, the subtle maneuvers of which women used to be mistress. Women would dangle a carrot instead of shoving down a man's throat.


----------



## dilloduck

mom4 said:
			
		

> *SUBTLE* is the key word. That used to be the feminine mystique, the subtle maneuvers of which women used to be mistress. Women would dangle a carrot instead of shoving down a man's throat.




Some still do Mom, lets not write of the whole female gender


----------



## Trinity

mom4 said:
			
		

> *SUBTLE* is the key word. That used to be the feminine mystique, the subtle maneuvers of which women used to be mistress. Women would dangle a carrot instead of shoving down a man's throat.



Hey remember me! :funnyface  I don't like to shove carrot's! dangling is much nicer!


----------



## dilloduck

Trinity said:
			
		

> Hey remember me! :funnyface  I don't like to shove carrot's! dangling is much nicer!



See Mom---there's still hope !!!


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Subtle aggression is sort of enjoyable and I respect it. I think a woman who is willing to take a few risks in the dating game shows some confidence.




for me, it's not her confidence; it's just seeing her desire to be with/around me, which 'works' for me. 

I like to be persued a bit...course...I'm about 33% woman I suppose.


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> I know exactly what you mean. Women are so sexually aggressive these days. Not that a woman shouldn't enjoy it, but don't you find it more exciting to be pursued than to pursue? How do the men feel about this? Do you really respect a woman who chases you?


I have heard over & over, "Yeah, I'd like a woman to ask me out."  But when it came right down to it.....The women that do, are far too aggressive and the men go running..  It's the women who have learned the 'art of flirting' that men take to.  The smile, the bit longer eye contact, laughter,the quick exchange of witicisms; AND the half dozen trips to the bathroom alone, so he can make his move.  I'm sure that sounds like it's from the dark ages.  But it's a mighty good feeling to set your sights on a man and then have him choose you out of all the others.  
And if he's just looking to "hook up" for the night, and you're not he'll be on his way.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> for me, it's not her confidence; it's just seeing her desire to be with/around me, which 'works' for me.
> 
> I like to be persued a bit...course...I'm about 33% woman I suppose.


Just HOW do you like to be persued?  
Somehow I don't see the phrase, "Hey, you wanna go do it" coming out of my mouth.  
But I do know a couple this worked for.  They did it & have been together since.  The man is an arrogant ass tho',  a retired cop.  He's become diabetic and parts arent' working as well.  Some thinks she's hanging around for a place to live and the money.  So many think it just couldn't be for him!  Maybe now that his performance isn't stellar that may be the case.


----------



## Joz

Trinity said:
			
		

> Looking forward to that set tonight though!


I called my son & told him not to go far tonight.  We might need bail money!!!

PS> I also told Bobby that we had some "hot momma" coming out to see the band tonight!  Hey, no pressure, huh?


----------



## Joz

Trinity said:
			
		

> ..... jeez just thinking about how many women some of those band members have been with was enough to make me keep my distance!
> ...


There are some musicians who have behaved that way & some that still do, dispite the fact they are married.  But then there are also some who have taken their vows/relationship seriously and have been faithful to their wives for many, many years.  Not that they didn't have the opportunity.  They just _chose_ not to.  I highly respect these men.


----------



## Nienna

-=d=- said:
			
		

> for me, it's not her confidence; it's just seeing her desire to be with/around me, which 'works' for me.
> 
> I like to be persued a bit...course...I'm about 33% woman I suppose.



-=d=-, just being sensitive doesn't mean you are a woman.
And anyway, what's with the sad emoticon? Being a woman is great! :


----------



## -Cp

Trinity said:
			
		

> Are you having a hard time dealing with this thread?




I find it friggin hilarious that folks need to drag it out so damn much.. lol


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> ..... Being a woman is great! :


You think so, so do I.  But -=d=- posted a picture of himself with quite a nice set of boobs.  It wasn't pretty.


----------



## Nienna

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Some still do Mom, lets not write of the whole female gender



I'd have to write off myself, and I'm not that far gone yet!


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> You think so, so do I.  But -=d=- posted a picture of himself with quite a nice set of boobs.  It wasn't pretty.




LOL! :rotflmao:


----------



## Trinity

Joz said:
			
		

> I called my son & told him not to go far tonight.  We might need bail money!!!



Bail money might be a good idea!



			
				Joz said:
			
		

> PS> I also told Bobby that we had some "hot momma" coming out to see the band tonight!  Hey, no pressure, huh?




 :shocked:


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Just HOW do you like to be persued?
> Somehow I don't see the phrase, "Hey, you wanna go do it" coming out of my mouth.
> But I do know a couple this worked for.  They did it & have been together since.  The man is an arrogant ass tho',  a retired cop.  He's become diabetic and parts arent' working as well.  Some thinks she's hanging around for a place to live and the money.  So many think it just couldn't be for him!  Maybe now that his performance isn't stellar that may be the case.



Just seeing a woman putting forth an affort to be close to me...I like when women are attracted to me as much as I am to them; and nobody has to play hard-to-get, etc.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Just seeing a woman putting forth an affort to be close to me...I like when women are attracted to me as much as I am to them; and nobody has to play hard-to-get, etc.


I understand wanting someone to return the attraction.  But HOW do you want her to do it?  Be forward & tell you what's on her mind.  Or would you like her to be a bit coy?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I understand wanting someone to return the attraction.  But HOW do you want her to do it?  Be forward & tell you what's on her mind.  Or would you like her to be a bit coy?




yes


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> I understand wanting someone to return the attraction.  But HOW do you want her to do it?  Be forward & tell you what's on her mind.  Or would you like her to be a bit coy?




Honesty and openess.  If she's attracted to me, she should exhibit normal signs - flirting, smiling, eye-contact, giggling, etc...humping my leg...you know...the usual


----------



## Avatar4321

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Honesty and openess.  If she's attracted to me, she should exhibit normal signs - flirting, smiling, eye-contact, giggling, etc...humping my leg...you know...the usual



is a some kind of dog or a woman?:


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Honesty and openess.  If she's attracted to me, she should exhibit normal signs - flirting, smiling, eye-contact, giggling, etc...humping my leg...you know...the usual


Is there _anything_ you don't like?  I hate it when a man snorts & drools.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Is there _anything_ you don't like?  I hate it when a man snorts & drools.



Women look sorta gross when the pick their noses :gross2:


----------



## Trinity

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Honesty and openess.  If she's attracted to me, she should exhibit normal signs - flirting, smiling, eye-contact, giggling, etc...humping my leg...you know...the usual




*Humping your Leg!! *  


Would you like to explain that one?


----------



## 5stringJeff

Trinity said:
			
		

> *Humping your Leg!! *
> 
> 
> Would you like to explain that one?



1. Straddle the guy's leg.

2. Move your hips back and forth at a moderate to fast tempo.

3. Optional - moan a little bit.


----------



## Trinity

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> 1. Straddle the guy's leg.
> 
> 2. Move your hips back and forth at a moderate to fast tempo.
> 
> 3. Optional - moan a little bit.





 :rotflmao: 

Is this done to music or just whenever?


----------



## dmp

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> 1. Straddle the guy's leg.
> 
> 2. Move your hips back and forth at a moderate to fast tempo.
> 
> 3. Optional - moan a little bit.


Nothing I've read from you has turned me on quite so much, jeff..

itchingatent:


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Is there _anything_ you don't like?  I hate it when a man snorts & drools.




While I was single and looking I didn't have esteem enough to be bothered by anything a woman did.  I'd pretty much like her, if she liked me, and she were attractive in most any respect.



lol


----------



## sitarro

Joz said:
			
		

> I just got in from listening to the first set the band played tonight.  There's this little thing that's there tonight, has been out a couple other nights, too.  Looks about 15, but she's soon to be 25.   But, she has already  'offered' herself to the lead singer, Bobby.  This is the 2nd one (that I know) and I'm sure many more, who have met him, and offered to take him home.  I am also aware that some women are crazy just because a man is on the stage.  I've seen women wrap their legs around MM.  I've seen women unzip their pants for him.  And I sit by & watch all this unfold.
> 
> But  what is wrong with these girls?  Maybe you fellows looked for this kind of girl when you were single.  But I don't get it, I'm sorry.  In my entire life, I have never had a one-night stand.  I couldn't imagine having a casual sexual relationship with someone.  I don't consider myself a prude. And I will discuss any aspect of sex with anyone, providing it's on an adult level.  I just don't understand this behavior.  Especially with the disease that's out there now.  Please explain it to me.




 Things have changed a lot. In the olden days , far far away , in another space and time , it was amazing how easy it was to have a one night stand . Drugs made a big difference , a quaalude would always get you some and coke was also good for a sure thing especially when mixed with some alcohol.
 I liked to dance and hung around a favorite band . They were a progressive cajun band and were great to dance dirty , nasty , cajun swing to.It was basically geat foreplay for a one nighter .Of course those were the days before AIDS , the absolute worst thing you could get was the big H and that wouldn't kill you .There was still a lot of heart ache though , sex has never really been "free".
 I am amazed at how incredibly lucky I was when I consider the things I did . Never arrested , no diseases , never got beat up or shot , no overdoses (except on alcohol) , no DUIs , no wrecks and no kids . . . I had to have been born under a good sign . I have calmed down a great deal since then , too many friends that didn't make it (makes you reflect) .


----------



## Joz

sitarro said:
			
		

> Things have changed a lot. In the olden days , far far away , in another space and time , it was amazing how easy it was to have a one night stand . Drugs made a big difference , a quaalude would always get you some and coke was also good for a sure thing especially when mixed with some alcohol.


I don't drink & I've never done drugs.  I like to know where my feet are planted.  I'm wondering what's wrong with me?!
Too many of the people I serve tell me they like to hide behind the 'excuse' of  alcohol, for bad behavior.   So, you think that without this extra stimuli things would have been different?


> ....... the absolute worst thing you could get was the big H and that wouldn't kill you .


I can't understand why someone would want herpes for their entire life.  And there was always pregnancy to worry about also.  Still, as you said, they weren't life threatening. 





> There was still a lot of heart ache though , sex has never really been "free".


This is the main point exactly.  


> I am amazed at how incredibly lucky I was when I consider the things I did.....


Glad you were able to stick around.  Who else would take such beautiful pictures of those golf courses?


----------



## sitarro

Joz said:
			
		

> I don't drink & I've never done drugs.  I like to know where my feet are planted.  I'm wondering what's wrong with me?!
> Too many of the people I serve tell me they like to hide behind the 'excuse' of  alcohol, for bad behavior.   So, you think that without this extra stimuli things would have been different?
> I can't understand why someone would want herpes for their entire life.  And there was always pregnancy to worry about also.  Still, as you said, they weren't life threatening. This is the main point exactly.
> Glad you were able to stick around.  Who else would take such beautiful pictures of those golf courses?


 Joz,
 Being in the Arts in school , I studied Architecture , and the fact that it was the 70s , drugs were plentiful and many of my friends were dealing . That is the falicy of the drug war , most people know friends that not only do drugs but also do fine in their lives . When a kid is constantly told that pot is as bad as heroin and all of their friends are doing it , it makes it hard to believe that anything said by authorities is true . I tried most everything in college that you didn't stick into your arm , easily the most dangerous was alcohol . Pot was the least destructive and that includes the prescription drugs like valium or many painkillers. And yet it is demonized as the gateway drug , BS ,alcohol and nicotine are the gateway drugs , they just have great lobbiest.
 I guess I got off on a tangent there but yes , I think that the added stimulis makes a huge difference . Alcohol and any other downers , lower inhibitions tremendously . A drug like quaalude takes away all inhibition , I remember plenty of times ,doing it in the park with cars driving by and not caring . The problem with alcohol is how it effects both your motor skills and your ability to think correctly . A lot of people feel they are invincible when high on alcohol , they drive faster than they are capable of when they are straight , much less impaired , and the same is true with sex . The concequences are blown off and the animal instinct takes over , the younger and less experienced , the worse the effect . Alcohol is not an excuse because unless you have alcohol poisoning to the point of passing out you probably know what you are doing , you just don't care.
 I think one of the things that made me lucky is my tolerance to drugs in general . I have never become addicted to any except maybe caffein , not even nicotine . I smoke cigars and pipes and can take or leave them . I smoked pot for 30 years and stopped when I ran out and didn't feel like paying the rediculous prices , no effect . All of the others had very little interest for me . From psilocybin mushrooms to a 4-way hit of windowpane acid at Mardi Gras in New Orleans , most I could take or leave . 
 I guess I got off on the drug tangent because I see that the misinformation adds to the problem . If parents had more of a clue about the real effects of drugs they would be able to speak with more knowledge to their kids and possibly avoid the things that can happen . The same should go for sex education and education about the legal drugs out there , if the parent doesn't tell their kids about these things they are depending on the kid's friends to tell them ,not good for something so important .


----------



## Joz

I appreciate you adding to this thread. 





			
				sitarro said:
			
		

> Joz,
> .... the fact that it was the 70s , drugs were plentiful and many of my friends were dealing . That is the falicy of the drug war


 I was around for the 70's too.     ...... ,





> alcohol and nicotine are the gateway drugs , they just have great lobbiest.


And if the government can figure a way  to make money off the other stuff, it'll be legal, too.


> I think that the added stimulis makes a huge difference . Alcohol and any other downers , lower inhibitions tremendously . A drug like quaalude takes away all inhibition ...., and the same is true with sex . The concequences are blown off and the animal instinct takes over , the younger and less experienced , the worse the effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never knew this, really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alcohol is not an excuse because unless you have alcohol poisoning to the point of passing out you probably know what you are doing , you just don't care.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate your honesty.  So, let me ask you this.  Does alcohol make you say things you don't want to?  I mean,if I get a phone call in the middle of the night, with someone on the other end saying "I love you",  Do they really feel that way, just that moment they're feeling that way, or just alcohol, period?
> 
> 
> 
> ......... The same should go for sex education and education about the legal drugs out there , if the parent doesn't tell their kids about these things they are depending on the kid's friends to tell them ,not good for something so important .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe, some young person and/or parent will be spared alot of heartache by what you have said.  Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## sitarro

Joz said:
			
		

> I appreciate you adding to this thread.  I was around for the 70's too.     ...... ,And if the government can figure a way  to make money off the other stuff, it'll be legal, too.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the added stimulis makes a huge difference . Alcohol and any other downers , lower inhibitions tremendously . A drug like quaalude takes away all inhibition ...., and the same is true with sex . The concequences are blown off and the animal instinct takes over , the younger and less experienced , the worse the effect.
> 
> 
> 
> I never knew this, really. I appreciate your honesty.  So, let me ask you this.  Does alcohol make you say things you don't want to?  I mean,if I get a phone call in the middle of the night, with someone on the other end saying "I love you",  Do they really feel that way, just that moment they're feeling that way, or just alcohol, period?
> Maybe, some young person and/or parent will be spared alot of heartache by what you have said.  Thanks.
Click to expand...


Thanks Joz, 
 I have found that most people are brutally honest when they are drunk , they will say what they would normally be too shy to say . That said , alcohol being a depressant for most people will possibly intensify feelings that may be repressed normally like those "I love you man." commercials .I wouldn't say it makes you say something , it is probably more like . . . it lets you say something you wouldn't normally say . Does that make sense?


----------



## Bonnie

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> 1. Straddle the guy's leg.
> 
> 2. Move your hips back and forth at a moderate to fast tempo.
> 
> 3. Optional - moan a little bit.




 :shocked:


----------



## Joz

sitarro said:
			
		

> Thanks Joz,
> I have found that most people are brutally honest when they are drunk , they will say what they would normally be too shy to say . That said , alcohol being a depressant for most people will possibly intensify feelings that may be repressed normally like those "I love you man." commercials .I wouldn't say it makes you say something , it is probably more like . . . it lets you say something you wouldn't normally say . Does that make sense?


Yeah, it makes sense.  Working around this so much, I've been quite curious about this.  
So, you're saying that they may feel a particular way, but sober the circuits are working and they have control over whether or not to say what's on their mind.  Alcohol causes them to short-circuit, so the ability to control tho't to speech doesn't work as well. Thus, "I love you man".


----------



## 5stringJeff

Bonnie said:
			
		

> :shocked:



Yeah... my wife peeked over my shoulder and said the same thing...


----------



## Shattered

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Yeah... my wife peeked over my shoulder and said the same thing...



...and did she leave a handprint on the back of your head?


----------



## 5stringJeff

Shattered said:
			
		

> ...and did she leave a handprint on the back of your head?



She was less than thrilled about the post...


----------



## Shattered

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> She was less than thrilled about the post...



_...but did she leave a handprint on the back of your head?_ 

I woulda..  :tng:


----------



## 5stringJeff

No.


----------



## Shattered

Drat.  That woulda been worth a picture in itself.


----------



## dilloduck

Shattered said:
			
		

> Drat.  That woulda been worth a picture in itself.



getting anxious for show and tell day ?


----------



## Mr. P

dilloduck said:
			
		

> getting anxious for show and tell day ?


Isn't that what this thread is all about..which I find disgusting..same as when guys hang and talk about their sex life at work.


----------



## dilloduck

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Isn't that what this thread is all about..which I find disgusting..same as when guys hang and talk about their sex life at work.



says sexual discussion but seems to be heading towards naked pics---sorry to hear your offended


----------



## Shattered

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Isn't that what this thread is all about..which I find disgusting..same as when guys hang and talk about their sex life at work.



 I think it's deviated somewhat from that, in to a joking thread now.  A pop to the back of the head for a comment obviously made in jest just doesn't qualify as sex talk, or even alluding to nude photos - tho, in some peoples minds, who knows...


----------



## dilloduck

Shattered said:
			
		

> I think it's deviated somewhat from that, in to a joking thread now.  A pop to the back of the head for a comment obviously made in jest just doesn't qualify as sex talk, or even alluding to nude photos - tho, in some peoples minds, who knows...



True--I think Joz was intending it to be a bit more serious than what it's evolved into---but it sure won't be the first time. I guess it's offensive to some and just play to others


----------



## dmp

This thread should flow...from serious discussion to jovial banter....and back


----------



## Mr. P

dilloduck said:
			
		

> says sexual discussion but seems to be heading towards naked pics---sorry to hear your offended


Find the word "offended" in my post, dillo.


----------



## Shattered

-=d=- said:
			
		

> This thread should flow...from serious discussion to jovial banter....and back



I agree.


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> This thread should flow...from serious discussion to jovial banter....and back



And I think it has quite nicely


----------



## Bonnie

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Yeah... my wife peeked over my shoulder and said the same thing...



Not that I was feeling prudish, just like a voyeur temporarily.


----------



## dilloduck

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Find the word "offended" in my post, dillo.



Sorry Mr. P--I should have used the word disgusted !


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Sorry Mr. P--I should have used the word disgusted !




Toe-MAY-toe....toe-MAH-toe my friend...



dis·gust    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ds-gst)
tr.v. dis·gust·ed, dis·gust·ing, dis·gusts 
To excite nausea or loathing in; sicken. 
To offend the taste or moral sense of; repel. 

n. 
Profound aversion or repugnance excited by something *offensive.*


----------



## manu1959

did she want a pick of gop getting smacked in the back of the head?


----------



## Bonnie

manu1959 said:
			
		

> did she want a pick of gop getting smacked in the back of the head?



More likely a shot of the hand imprinted on the back of his head..........J/K Shattered!!! :


----------



## Shattered

Bonnie said:
			
		

> More likely a shot of the hand imprinted on the back of his head..........J/K Shattered!!! :




No, that's what I wanted.  The imprint.


----------



## manu1959

Bonnie said:
			
		

> More likely a shot of the hand imprinted on the back of his head..........J/K Shattered!!! :



or was it the chest shots of all the olde men when they were young and fit?


----------



## Joz

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Isn't that what this thread is all about..which I find disgusting..same as when guys hang and talk about their sex life at work.


Not one of us have talked about our intimate lives.  That would not be cool.  Just sex, and it's significance in our lives.
Disgusted?!?  Hasn't kept you out of the thread, tho' has it?


----------



## Avatar4321

Joz said:
			
		

> Not one of us have talked about our intimate lives.  That would not be cool.  Just sex, and it's significance in our lives.
> Disgusted?!?  Hasn't kept you out of the thread, tho' has it?



Seriously though who ignores threads based on sex.

BTW whats with the new title?


----------



## Joz

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> BTW whats with the new title?


Contct your friendly neighborhood moderator.


----------



## dmp

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> BTW whats with the new title?




If you click on Edit Thread you'll see my notes. 

o re: Discussion....

somebody once said anything worth doing is worth doing well.  To that end, a number of participants in this thread choose to interact with e-friends (little more than strangers, really) in attempts to better certain aspects of their lives.   In this thread a few people have acknowledge sex, and the actions leading up to coitus as a form of 'group therapy'.  Sort of.  I guess it's more about gaining insights to our lives.  Frank discussion often leads to immesurable personal growth.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> If you click on Edit Thread you'll see my notes.


 I don't have one.      



> .......  Frank discussion often leads to immesurable personal growth.


I've yet to hear someone say, "I have too much knowledge....about _anything_.  This is just a small part.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> I don't have one.



 You already know why, silly 



			
				Joz said:
			
		

> I've yet to hear someone say, "I have too much knowledge....about _anything_.  This is just a small part.



Please...in a Sex discussion...don't use the words small and parts.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I don't have one.
> 
> I've yet to hear someone say, "I have too much knowledge....about _anything_.  This is just a small part.




There have been a few times when I wish I didn't know what know !

can temporary ignorance be temporary bliss ??


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> You already know why, silly


Still, I don't have one.


> Please...in a Sex discussion...don't use the words small and parts.


 :happy2:  Sorry.  :happy2:


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Still, I don't have one.
> :happy2:  Sorry.  :happy2:





d----you're supposed to assume she's talking about some ELSE.


----------



## Joz

I'm in a rush to get MM to the gig so my hair is more than damp from the shower.  We get there & he asks me to come in because he got a new drum anchor and might need some help.  So I figure I can dart in & out before it gets crowded.  
Helen, Bobby's mom asks me to stay for a little bit; I hated leaving her.  I'm not cleaned up.  Eventually I get my hair tied back so it isn't just stringing in my face.  

I'm getting ready to leave when MM tells me I need to go over to this couple and introduce myself.  MM said they know a musician he & I know.  So I do.  And yes, the man knows Danny, from waaaaaay back. I tho't they knew MM from way back, too, but just heard him 3 weeks ago.  She thinks MM is the greatest singer she's ever heard.  I'm proud. 
Then this woman tell me she & Bill are _dating_, about 4 months now.  I think this is cool!  They've been friends for 50 years; she introduced Bill to his first wife.  She is recently divorced at age 63 after almost 44 years of marriage.  
She tells me she hasn't had a date in almost 46 years..... and she'd like to "get lucky", but she doesn't know how to go about it.  I laugh. I'm assuming she is shy because Bill has been married twice & has also dated.  She said, "He's experienced'.  So, dumb me says, "You were married"!
Then I'm told she was married to a preacher and apparently there was no  sex ALL THOSE YEARS.  She whispered to me she just learned what a dildo was, and I hope the look on my face didn't reveal the shock!  
She said she didn't have one, but needed a younger sister to help her out.  I asked if she had a computer (she does) so I told her she could find info on *anything* she needed to, there.  She asked if she should type www.sex.com?  I told her to go to Yahoo or Google, type in what she wanted to learn to do & it would tell her.  She hugged & thanked me, then left.    
MM thinks I was there for this reason tonight...I don't know.  What I do know is that tho' some people think this 'sex talk' is inappropriate, sex & intimacy is a vital part of our lives, our relationships, our well-being.  

Bill better brace himself.  He's got one hot momma on his hands!


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I'm in a rush to get MM to the gig so my hair is more than damp from the shower.  We get there & he asks me to come in because he got a new drum anchor and might need some help.  So I figure I can dart in & out before it gets crowded.
> Helen, Bobby's mom asks me to stay for a little bit; I hated leaving her.  I'm not cleaned up.  Eventually I get my hair tied back so it isn't just stringing in my face.
> 
> I'm getting ready to leave when MM tells me I need to go over to this couple and introduce myself.  MM said they know a musician he & I know.  So I do.  And yes, the man knows Danny, from waaaaaay back. I tho't they knew MM from way back, too, but just heard him 3 weeks ago.  She thinks MM is the greatest singer she's ever heard.  I'm proud.
> Then this woman tell me she & Bill are _dating_, about 4 months now.  I think this is cool!  They've been friends for 50 years; she introduced Bill to his first wife.  She is recently divorced at age 63 after almost 44 years of marriage.
> She tells me she hasn't had a date in almost 46 years..... and she'd like to "get lucky", but she doesn't know how to go about it.  I laugh. I'm assuming she is shy because Bill has been married twice & has also dated.  She said, "He's experienced'.  So, dumb me says, "You were married"!
> Then I'm told she was married to a preacher and apparently there was no  sex ALL THOSE YEARS.  She whispered to me she just learned what a dildo was, and I hope the look on my face didn't reveal the shock!
> She said she didn't have one, but needed a younger sister to help her out.  I asked if she had a computer (she does) so I told her she could find info on *anything* she needed to, there.  She asked if she should type www.sex.com?  I told her to go to Yahoo or Google, type in what she wanted to learn to do & it would tell her.  She hugged & thanked me, then left.
> MM thinks I was there for this reason tonight...I don't know.  What I do know is that tho' some people think this 'sex talk' is inappropriate, sex & intimacy is a vital part of our lives, our relationships, our well-being.
> 
> Bill better brace himself.  He's got one hot momma on his hands!




Look out DR. Ruth !!!----you've got some serious competition !!!!


----------



## Avatar4321

Joz said:
			
		

> So, dumb me says, "You were married"!
> Then I'm told she was married to a preacher and apparently there was no  sex ALL THOSE YEARS.



Well then the preacher really needs to repent a bit. I mean I would think that preachers should be the ones having the wildest craziest sex with their wives. I mean after all they are the ones that supposedly have studied the scriptures the most and should take it a delight to fulfill the first commandment of God to multiply and replenish the earth. I would think having sex with ones wife would be the easiest and most fun of all the commandments to keep. 



> She whispered to me she just learned what a dildo was, and I hope the look on my face didn't reveal the shock!



A what? Do I want to know or should my virgin ears just close right now.


----------



## dilloduck

Avatar4321 said:
			
		

> Well then the preacher really needs to repent a bit. I mean I would think that preachers should be the ones having the wildest craziest sex with their wives. I mean after all they are the ones that supposedly have studied the scriptures the most and should take it a delight to fulfill the first commandment of God to multiply and replenish the earth. I would think having sex with ones wife would be the easiest and most fun of all the commandments to keep.
> 
> 
> 
> A what? Do I want to know or should my virgin ears just close right now.


 Since Dr. Joz the sex therapist isn't here now, you may want to just google it !


----------



## dmp

yowsers.

I could understand, however.  I know a couple who was married for 9 years before they consumated the marriage.   She was always afraid it'd hurt to badly. Her husband is a good man...but finally said "If we hit our 10 year, and still haven't done it, I'm gone."

Now, they have a year old baby!


----------



## musicman

-=d=- said:
			
		

> yowsers.
> 
> I could understand, however.  I know a couple who was married for 9 years before they consumated the marriage.   She was always afraid it'd hurt to badly. Her husband is a good man...but finally said "If we hit our 10 year, and still haven't done it, I'm gone."
> 
> Now, they have a year old baby!





That reminds me of the guy whose wife was afraid of the same thing. He promised to only put it in halfway, and she agreed to give it a try. Of course, once he's in, our hero goes ALL in. She says, "Mmm, that feels nice. Put it in the rest of the way." Thinking quickly, he says, "No, no, my darling - a promise is a promise!"


----------



## Bonnie

> Avatar....Well then the preacher really needs to repent a bit. I mean I would think that preachers should be the ones having the wildest craziest sex with their wives. I mean after all they are the ones that supposedly have studied the scriptures the most and should take it a delight to fulfill the first commandment of God to multiply and replenish the earth. I would think having sex with ones wife would be the easiest and most fun of all the commandments to keep.




I would think so too!!!


----------



## sitarro

Joz said:
			
		

> I'm in a rush to get MM to the gig so my hair is more than damp from the shower.  We get there & he asks me to come in because he got a new drum anchor and might need some help.  So I figure I can dart in & out before it gets crowded.
> Helen, Bobby's mom asks me to stay for a little bit; I hated leaving her.  I'm not cleaned up.  Eventually I get my hair tied back so it isn't just stringing in my face.
> 
> I'm getting ready to leave when MM tells me I need to go over to this couple and introduce myself.  MM said they know a musician he & I know.  So I do.  And yes, the man knows Danny, from waaaaaay back. I tho't they knew MM from way back, too, but just heard him 3 weeks ago.  She thinks MM is the greatest singer she's ever heard.  I'm proud.
> Then this woman tell me she & Bill are _dating_, about 4 months now.  I think this is cool!  They've been friends for 50 years; she introduced Bill to his first wife.  She is recently divorced at age 63 after almost 44 years of marriage.
> She tells me she hasn't had a date in almost 46 years..... and she'd like to "get lucky", but she doesn't know how to go about it.  I laugh. I'm assuming she is shy because Bill has been married twice & has also dated.  She said, "He's experienced'.  So, dumb me says, "You were married"!
> Then I'm told she was married to a preacher and apparently there was no  sex ALL THOSE YEARS.  She whispered to me she just learned what a dildo was, and I hope the look on my face didn't reveal the shock!
> She said she didn't have one, but needed a younger sister to help her out.  I asked if she had a computer (she does) so I told her she could find info on *anything* she needed to, there.  She asked if she should type www.sex.com?  I told her to go to Yahoo or Google, type in what she wanted to learn to do & it would tell her.  She hugged & thanked me, then left.
> MM thinks I was there for this reason tonight...I don't know.  What I do know is that tho' some people think this 'sex talk' is inappropriate, sex & intimacy is a vital part of our lives, our relationships, our well-being.
> 
> Bill better brace himself.  He's got one hot momma on his hands!



 I fell in love with a lady that had been married for 4 years and had never achieved a big O with her husband . . . she needed to go to the shower massage to get what was due(they were close friends , I was in the wedding and caught her garter, she told me everything) . She had named that shower massage and depended on it for her 4 years of marriage. I , of course , was more that happy to help her be less dependent on the shower after she was divorced . For that she was responsible for all the grey that you see in my avatar. I guess that is what happens when you live with someone for 6 years without a ring , she never gave me any rest on that marriage question . I would tell her I was married but she wanted the paper that proved it. She left me for an electrical engineer !


----------



## Joz

sitarro said:
			
		

> I fell in love with a lady that had been married for 4 years ..... I would tell her I was married but she wanted the paper that proved it. She left me for an electrical engineer !


Now, I'm curious.  Apparently you were able to helpthis woman grow sexually, you lived with her for 6 years, she wanted a lifetime commitment from you, you say you loved her.....So what's up?


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> yowsers.
> I could understand, however.  I know a couple who was married for 9 years before they consumated the marriage.   She was always afraid it'd hurt to badly. Her husband is a good man...but finally said "If we hit our 10 year, and still haven't done it, I'm gone."Now, they have a year old baby!


Well this man has an _awful lot of patience!_  Most men would not have hung around that long.  I'm happy they now have a family.  It does show that a relationship is not just about sex; just that it's important.  More to some, than others.


----------



## sitarro

Joz said:
			
		

> Now, I'm curious.  Apparently you were able to helpthis woman grow sexually, you lived with her for 6 years, she wanted a lifetime commitment from you, you say you loved her.....So what's up?


 
 I was the second man she had ever had any experience with and she had already found out how easy it was to get out of that "lifetime commitment" the first time . I believe that marriage that , a lifetime commitment , and didn't have faith in her to remain around. I felt she would always wonder about other men since she had so little experience and didn't trust that she believed the lifetime commitment thing . After all that piece of paper didn't keep her commited the first time , why did she suddenly believe in it again.  
 I guess I always believed in the proverb  . . .
If you love something let it go , if it returns it is yours ...if it doesn't , it was never yours to begin with . . . .or something like that .
 I am still waiting for the return but I guess that's not gonna happen . We broke up 19 years ago and now she is married to an "alternative" preacher in Portland ,Oregon . I made a point to remain friends all of these years but she decided to quit speaking to me last year because I was backing President Bush and she feels I am just another idiot from a red state . Typical liberal mentality , she spent 10 years going to a therapist to find out that the woman she was when she was with me wasn't her at all and that the real one is much more progressive and intelligent  . OK sure . The last time I spoke to her she was with a group of women baking pies for peace , they sold pies to raise money for the poor Iraqi civilians that our soldiers were hurting  ! I told she should be baking pies for OUR soldiers who were defending us . . . we haven't spoken since.


----------



## Said1

sitarro said:
			
		

> I was the second man she had ever had any experience with and she had already found out how easy it was to get out of that "lifetime commitment" the first time . I believe that marriage that , a lifetime commitment , and didn't have faith in her to remain around. I felt she would always wonder about other men since she had so little experience and didn't trust that she believed the lifetime commitment thing . After all that piece of paper didn't keep her commited the first time , why did she suddenly believe in it again.
> I guess I always believed in the proverb  . . .
> If you love something let it go , if it returns it is yours ...if it doesn't , it was never yours to begin with . . . .or something like that .
> I am still waiting for the return but I guess that's not gonna happen . We broke up 19 years ago and now she is married to an "alternative" preacher in Portland ,Oregon . I made a point to remain friends all of these years but she decided to quit speaking to me last year because I was backing President Bush and she feels I am just another idiot from a red state . Typical liberal mentality , she spent 10 years going to a therapist to find out that the woman she was when she was with me wasn't her at all and that the real one is much more progressive and intelligent  . OK sure . The last time I spoke to her she was with a group of women baking pies for peace , they sold pies to raise money for the poor Iraqi civilians that our soldiers were hurting  ! I told she should be baking pies for OUR soldiers who were defending us . . . we haven't spoken since.



Oh well, all is well that ends well....eh?


----------



## sitarro

Said1 said:
			
		

> Oh well, all is well that ends well....eh?



 That's right , I guess I had some of that men's intuition about her . I knew there was a problem when I had a once in a lifetime chance to caddy for my brother in The Masters and she was really upset that I went . . . yea sure I'm not going to go experience the holy fairways and greens of Augusta National from inside the ropes because she doesn't want me to . . .right.


----------



## Said1

sitarro said:
			
		

> That's right , I guess I had some of that men's intuition about her . I knew there was a problem when I had a once in a lifetime chance to caddy for my brother in The Masters and she was really upset that I went . . . yea sure I'm not going to go experience the holy fairways and greens of Augusta National from inside the ropes because she doesn't want me to . . .right.



LOL, no kidding. Sounds like you made the right choice! My friends neice died of cancer at 4 yrs old, and I would bet money that his fiancee was jealous of the little girl. It became really obvious when she asked him not to spend so much time with her and his brother's family. He married her anyway, amazing!


----------



## dmp

Speaking about spouses who get upset...

Jealousy...anyone here have an over-protective spouse?  My wife is very cool about things...she and I rarely feel competition when another flirts with one of us, etc...


----------



## Joz

sitarro said:
			
		

> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I felt she would always wonder about other men since she had so little experience and didn't trust that she believed the lifetime commitment thing . After all that piece of paper didn't keep her commited the first time , why did she suddenly believe in it again.
> 
> 
> 
> Experience has nothing to do with committment.  I went from the care of my parents-to marriage-to the relationship I'm in now.
> I didn't cheat before & have no intentions on behaving that way now.  You're right.  Committment doesn't come from a piece of paper.
> 
> 
> 
> I am still waiting for the return but I guess that's not gonna happen . We broke up 19 years ago and now she is married to an "alternative" preacher in Portland ,Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WHY have you been waiting???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she spent 10 years going to a therapist to find out that the woman she was when she was with me wasn't her at all and that the real one is much more progressive and intelligent  . OK sure .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my hat, too sexy for my......Hahhahhah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last time I spoke to her she was with a group of women baking pies for peace , they sold pies to raise money for the poor Iraqi civilians that our soldiers were hurting  ! I told she should be baking pies for OUR soldiers who were defending us . . . we haven't spoken since.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Personally, I think you're better off.  But then, love doesn't always make snese.
Click to expand...


----------



## Said1

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Speaking about spouses who get upset...
> 
> Jealousy...anyone here have an over-protective spouse?  My wife is very cool about things...she and I rarely feel competition when another flirts with one of us, etc...




Had. 
Not me though.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Speaking about spouses who get upset...
> 
> Jealousy...anyone here have an over-protective spouse?  My wife is very cool about things...she and I rarely feel competition when another flirts with one of us, etc...


I suffer from this more than MM does.  Most of the time I'm real cool about it but there's always one that gets under my skin.  I've talked to other musician's partners and they say the same thing; there's always that _one_.  But there are some that really go ballistic when a woman behaves 'friendly' towards their man.  Some have gone so far as to be escorted off the premises.

Like last night.  I was sitting at a table with Helen & the band went on break.  MM was talking to Bobby up by the bar.  There was this woman that was gyrating to the CD playing not far from where MM was standing.  Cute.  But then when he turned his head while talking to look at what was going on around him,  _she began her 'humping movement' &  motioned for him to come the her._  So I got up, walked over to him, and whispered tenderly in his ear, "I'll kick her ass".  To which MM looks at me & says, "What are you talking about"?  And I said, "Nothing dear, I know what I'm doing".


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> I suffer from this more than MM does.  Most of the time I'm real cool about it but there's always one that gets under my skin.  I've talked to other musician's partners and they say the same thing; there's always that _one_.  But there are some that really go ballistic when a woman behaves 'friendly' towards their man.  Some have gone so far as to be escorted off the premises.
> 
> Like last night.  I was sitting at a table with Helen & the band went on break.  MM was talking to Bobby up by the bar.  There was this woman that was gyrating to the CD playing not far from where MM was standing.  Cute.  But then when he turned his head while talking to look at what was going on around him,  _she began her 'humping movement' &  motioned for him to come the her._  So I got up, walked over to him, and whispered tenderly in his ear, "I'll kick her ass".  To which MM looks at me & says, "What are you talking about"?  And I said, "Nothing dear, I know what I'm doing".



lol  

Honestly, it's nice to feel a bit protected by one's spouse.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I suffer from this more than MM does.  Most of the time I'm real cool about it but there's always one that gets under my skin.  I've talked to other musician's partners and they say the same thing; there's always that _one_.  But there are some that really go ballistic when a woman behaves 'friendly' towards their man.  Some have gone so far as to be escorted off the premises.
> 
> Like last night.  I was sitting at a table with Helen & the band went on break.  MM was talking to Bobby up by the bar.  There was this woman that was gyrating to the CD playing not far from where MM was standing.  Cute.  But then when he turned his head while talking to look at what was going on around him,  _she began her 'humping movement' &  motioned for him to come the her._  So I got up, walked over to him, and whispered tenderly in his ear, "I'll kick her ass".  To which MM looks at me & says, "What are you talking about"?  And I said, "Nothing dear, I know what I'm doing".


well???????  did you kick her ass?????


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> well???????  did you kick her ass?????


I've never been in a fight.  Can't now, my bones are brittle!!! : 
I think handling it the way I did was better.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I've never been in a fight.  Can't now, my bones are brittle!!! :
> I think handling it the way I did was better.



I'm still confused--was your whisper a warning to MM ??


----------



## manu1959

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Speaking about spouses who get upset...
> 
> Jealousy...anyone here have an over-protective spouse?  My wife is very cool about things...she and I rarely feel competition when another flirts with one of us, etc...



nope....my wife points out the hot women to me and says...."i would do her...don't you think she is cute?"

by the the correct response is NO.

and god help whoever flirts with my wife....she is brutal....


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I'm still confused--was your whisper a warning to MM ??


Oh no. I tho't he may have actually seen what this woman was doing, but he was just as clueless as he usually is when it comes to women's advances.  I  was just letting the woman know there was someone around.  It just seemed like the thing to say......just in case.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Oh no. I tho't he may have actually seen what this woman was doing, but he was just as clueless as he usually is when it comes to women's advances.  I  was just letting the woman know there was someone around.  It just seemed like the thing to say......just in case.



ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh   sprayed him !!!!!


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh   sprayed him !!!!!


Exactly.


----------



## 5stringJeff

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Speaking about spouses who get upset...
> 
> Jealousy...anyone here have an over-protective spouse?  My wife is very cool about things...she and I rarely feel competition when another flirts with one of us, etc...



I don't think I'm allowed to answer this question honestly...


----------



## dmp

way to kill a conversation, jeff! 







Next Question:

If your spouse suddenly gains 100lbs of fat, would you still find them attractive?


----------



## 5stringJeff

-=d=- said:
			
		

> If your spouse suddenly gains 100lbs of fat, would you still find them attractive?



Am I allowed to respond?


----------



## 5stringJeff

And why don't you just start a new thread instead of resurrecting this behemoth?


----------



## dmp

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Am I allowed to respond?







Pregnancy = not 100lbs of Fat.  Frankly, I doubt Angela could literally DOUBLE her body weight...


----------



## dmp

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> And why don't you just start a new thread instead of resurrecting this behemoth?




To keep the subject matter contained... 

Why didn't you just edit your post instead of a new reply, you post-whore?


----------



## 5stringJeff

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Pregnancy = not 100lbs of Fat.  Frankly, I doubt Angela could literally DOUBLE her body weight...



Not talking about that... I meant, if I replied, would it kill the thread?  And would that cause more grief?

I hope Angela gains about 10-15 pounds permanently from this pregnancy.  I would like to have a wife who is 5'11" and ~150 lbs.


----------



## 5stringJeff

-=d=- said:
			
		

> To keep the subject matter contained...
> 
> Why didn't you just edit your post instead of a new reply, you post-whore?



Say what you want about me... but at least I don't suck!


----------



## GotZoom

Joz said:
			
		

> :rotflmao:
> 
> When or at what moment did you realize your partner was THE ONE?  Or did it just evolve and marriage was the next step?
> 
> We had dated a few months & were on the way to a gig.  We were talking religion and MM made reference to something in particular that shocked me he even knew about.  _I_ knew then.



I knew she was "the one" when I realized that I couldn't imagine myself waking up in the morning without her next to me.


----------



## Joz

GotZoom said:
			
		

> I knew she was "the one" when I realized that I couldn't imagine myself waking up in the morning without her next to me.


Are you serious or did you read this somewhere?


----------



## Joz

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Not talking about that... I meant, if I replied, would it kill the thread?  And would that cause more grief?
> 
> I hope Angela gains about 10-15 pounds permanently from this pregnancy.  I would like to have a wife who is 5'11" and ~150 lbs.


I just talked to a woman at the grocery.  She told me her daughter gained *90 lbs*!  This was her first.  Whew!!


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> way to kill a conversation, jeff!


 :rotflmao:  Tho't the same thing myself!!



> If your spouse suddenly gains 100lbs of fat, would you still find them attractive?


There has to be a reason for the weight gain.  Alot of medication can do that.  But if it's overeating from emotional issues, that's something that needs to be gotten to the bottom of.  I would still love them but still finding them attractive?  Boy, am I going to sound shallow, but I'd probably have a problem with that.


----------



## GotZoom

Joz said:
			
		

> Are you serious or did you read this somewhere?



Lol.....no, I will take credit for that one.  I have always known that there is "someone" out there for me (as far as that goes, someone for everyone).  You go through your younger days, dating, breaking up, but it doesn't destroy you.  I just figured that when I knew that I couldn't imagine that person in my life (waking up next to them), then I knew she was it.


----------



## Joz

GotZoom said:
			
		

> Lol.....no, I will take credit for that one.  I have always known that there is "someone" out there for me (as far as that goes, someone for everyone).  You go through your younger days, dating, breaking up, but it doesn't destroy you.  I just figured that when I knew that I couldn't imagine that person in my life (waking up next to them), then I knew she was it.


So you're telling me you're unattached? :huh: 

I understand your thinking.  And it's quite romantic, I might add.  But you know, everything comes to an end.  Everything.  My advice.  Choose someone you love enough & is strong enough to go thru all this shit with you.  Not someone you can't "live without".


----------



## GotZoom

Joz said:
			
		

> So you're telling me you're unattached? :huh:
> 
> I understand your thinking.  And it's quite romantic, I might add.  But you know, everything comes to an end.  Everything.  My advice.  Choose someone you love enough & is strong enough to go thru all this shit with you.  Not someone you can't "live without".



Had a practice wife.  

Married now to "the one" for 10 years (this July)


----------



## Joz

GotZoom said:
			
		

> Had a practice wife.
> 
> Married now to "the one" for 10 years (this July)


Nowadays that's quite a milestone.  Congrats!


----------



## GotZoom

Joz said:
			
		

> Nowadays that's quite a milestone.  Congrats!



But if I wasn't........well, you know.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> If your spouse suddenly gains 100lbs of fat, would you still find them attractive?


Well, apparently no one else is going to bite on this topic so here's something.

Any message board.  
We meet here, we talk & sometimes flirt.  We exchage ideas & views & problems & joys & concerns.....we exchange our lives.

Alot of us are in relationships, be it, some not as healthy as they should be.  People can be _anything_ they want on a board, on the phone.  Hell, people can be different in real life; example: Scott Peterson.  But we get a mental picture of someone, their personality,  & fantasizing can follow.  How far should it be taken?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Well, apparently no one else is going to bite on this topic so here's something.
> 
> Any message board.
> We meet here, we talk & sometimes flirt.  We exchage ideas & views & problems & joys & concerns.....we exchange our lives.
> 
> Alot of us are in relationships, be it, some not as healthy as they should be.  People can be _anything_ they want on a board, on the phone.  Hell, people can be different in real life; example: Scott Peterson.  But we get a mental picture of someone, their personality,  & fantasizing can follow.  How far should it be taken?


 As far as both people agree.


----------



## GotZoom

Joz said:
			
		

> Well, apparently no one else is going to bite on this topic so here's something.
> 
> Any message board.
> We meet here, we talk & sometimes flirt.  We exchage ideas & views & problems & joys & concerns.....we exchange our lives.
> 
> Alot of us are in relationships, be it, some not as healthy as they should be.  People can be _anything_ they want on a board, on the phone.  Hell, people can be different in real life; example: Scott Peterson.  But we get a mental picture of someone, their personality,  & fantasizing can follow.  How far should it be taken?



Excellent question. 

Some might use the "consenting adults" reasoning.  Others might say that there shouldn't be anything like what you described.  Teasing and flirting is a bad thing.  Others would disagree and say it is a healthy part of life. 

I think that regardless of what people do, they should know what they are getting into.  And really get to know the person they are talking to.  Once that comfort level has been attained, then the conversation can be had.

Just my .02.


----------



## dilloduck

GotZoom said:
			
		

> Excellent question.
> 
> Some might use the "consenting adults" reasoning.  Others might say that there shouldn't be anything like what you described.  Teasing and flirting is a bad thing.  Others would disagree and say it is a healthy part of life.
> 
> I think that regardless of what people do, they should know what they are getting into.  And really get to know the person they are talking to.  Once that comfort level has been attained, then the conversation can be had.
> 
> Just my .02.


 Isn't conversation the only way that your going to get to know the other person?


----------



## GotZoom

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Isn't conversation the only way that your going to get to know the other person?



Conversation is the best way to get to know someone. 

Do you put limits on those conversations though?


----------



## dilloduck

GotZoom said:
			
		

> Conversation is the best way to get to know someone.
> 
> Do you put limits on those conversations though?


 
depends on your curiosity level--guess either person could shut it down anytime they got too uncomfortable to carry it any further.


----------



## 5stringJeff

Joz said:
			
		

> Any message board.
> We meet here, we talk & sometimes flirt.  We exchage ideas & views & problems & joys & concerns.....we exchange our lives.
> 
> Alot of us are in relationships, be it, some not as healthy as they should be.  People can be _anything_ they want on a board, on the phone.  Hell, people can be different in real life; example: Scott Peterson.  But we get a mental picture of someone, their personality,  & fantasizing can follow.  How far should it be taken?



I'll go as far as I feel comfortable going.  But I'm not going to talk about some stuff on here, just for the simple fact that it's my business, and no one else's.  But that's no different than people's friends IRL.


----------



## Joz

GotZoom said:
			
		

> Excellent question....
> Some might use the "consenting adults" reasoning.  Others might say that there shouldn't be anything like what you described.  Teasing and flirting is a bad thing.  Others would disagree and say it is a healthy part of life....
> I think that regardless of what people do, they should know what they are getting into.....


Teasing & flirting is _always_ good.  It's fun, boosts the ego, should be harmless.   We are all tempted,; some maybe just once.  But there's the  person that just happens into your life that takes your breath away.  You seem to have so much more in common than you do with your spouse/partner.  What about committment?  We wouldn't do it in person?  Is it harmless on a message board?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Teasing & flirting is _always_ good.  It's fun, boosts the ego, should be harmless.   We are all tempted,; some maybe just once.  But there's the  person that just happens into your life that takes your breath away.  You seem to have so much more in common than you do with your spouse/partner.  What about committment?  We wouldn't do it in person?  Is it harmless on a message board?


 
You are the only one who knows what your set of morals and values are--listen to them.


----------



## GotZoom

Joz said:
			
		

> Teasing & flirting is _always_ good.  It's fun, boosts the ego, should be harmless.   We are all tempted,; some maybe just once.  But there's the  person that just happens into your life that takes your breath away.  You seem to have so much more in common than you do with your spouse/partner.  What about committment?  We wouldn't do it in person?  Is it harmless on a message board?



I will refer back to what has been posted above.  I think that there are instances where someone finds someone who you have a lot in common with.  It is rare - sometimes it even happens in almost an instant; other times it has to grow (co-worker, etc). 

I think when you find someone who you have that connection with, you need to keep them, at a minimum, as a dear friend.  People like that are very hard to find - and when you do, you shouldn't lose them.

Do something in person?  Harmless on a message board?  Again, I think it is up to the two people.  Everybody is different.


----------



## Joz

GotZoom said:
			
		

> I will refer back to what has been posted above.  I think that there are instances where someone finds someone who you have a lot in common with.  It is rare - sometimes it even happens in almost an instant; other times it has to grow (co-worker, etc).
> I think when you find someone who you have that connection with, you need to keep them, at a minimum, as a dear friend.  People like that are very hard to find - and when you do, you shouldn't lose them.
> Do something in person?  Harmless on a message board?  Again, I think it is up to the two people.  Everybody is different.


I've made some real good friends here, both male & female.  There are always some you click with better than others.  It's funny how that happens over a board.  BUT that's also why you have to be even MORE careful.  These realtionships can be fun.  But, I believe that cheating can also occur  in this form.  I'd be VERY careful.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I've made some real good friends here, both male & female.  There are always some you click with better than others.  It's funny how that happens over a board.  BUT that's also why you have to be even MORE careful.  These realtionships can be fun.  But, I believe that cheating can also occur  in this form.  I'd be VERY careful.


 Answered you own question , Joz?


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Answered you own question , Joz?


Yep, guess I did.  But this is MY answer.  It may not be _YOURS_.  I guess I just wondered if I was alone in this line of thinking?


----------



## manu1959

GotZoom said:
			
		

> Had a practice wife.
> 
> Married now to "the one" for 10 years (this July)



i call em starter wives.....like starter homes....you trade up


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Yep, guess I did.  But this is MY answer.  It may not be _YOURS_.  I guess I just wondered if I was alone in this line of thinking?


 Nope--I think that the energy one spends here should not be used at the expense of loved ones at home.


----------



## GotZoom

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Answered you own question , Joz?



It would appear that she did.


----------



## GotZoom

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Nope--I think that the energy one spends here should not be used at the expense of loved ones at home.



Definitely agree.  Nothing worse than the "family" being home and mom/dad sitting in front of the computer for hours chatting with other people. 

Kids, spouse, all of the above, deserve the attention the computer is getting.

Perhaps if more people spent that time at home with their family instead of in front of the computer, relationships would be better off,...

and the world would be a better place.

(I had to throw that in.  I like puppies and whirled peas too).


----------



## Joz

GotZoom said:
			
		

> It would appear that she did.


So much for this conversation.  
Now one of you come up with something.


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> So much for this conversation.
> Now one of you come up with something.



how is the wee one?


----------



## GotZoom

Joz said:
			
		

> So much for this conversation.
> Now one of you come up with something.



OK...here is one.

You are married/committed/involved.  

Do you have a problem with your "significant other" going out with their friends to party at the bars/clubs on a Friday night (whatever night) while you stay home?


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> So much for this conversation.
> Now one of you come up with something.




Ok---how about" Why don't some people get through all the pain and anger of a relationship gone bad BEFORE they start another one?"


----------



## manu1959

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Ok---how about" Why don't some people get through all the pain and anger of a relationship gone bad BEFORE they start another one?"



no clue ....why can't you do that.............oh ya .....you like to suffer....


----------



## dilloduck

manu1959 said:
			
		

> no clue ....why can't you do that.............oh ya .....you like to suffer....



It's fun being the target of your envy Manu !!! :teeth:


----------



## manu1959

GotZoom said:
			
		

> OK...here is one.
> 
> You are married/committed/involved.
> 
> Do you have a problem with your "significant other" going out with their friends to party at the bars/clubs on a Friday night (whatever night) while you stay home?



my wife can do as she likes .... if she decides to hook up and or bail ...... nothing i can do ..... we'll miss ya


----------



## Joz

GotZoom said:
			
		

> OK...here is one.
> 
> You are married/committed/involved.
> 
> Do you have a problem with your "significant other" going out with their friends to party at the bars/clubs on a Friday night (whatever night) while you stay home?


My situation is different.  MM is always in this atmosphere, working.  Do I trust him?  Explicitly.
Now, if he wants time with the boys, good, get out of my face for a couple hours.  

*BUT* don't come home falling down drunk.  Don't leave me for hours on end.  If you do get tied up, please make a phone call.  Not like calling home to mommy, but out of sheer consideration.  Have a good time.  Be safe.  (You get the kids NEXT Friday night!!)


----------



## manu1959

dilloduck said:
			
		

> It's fun being the target of your envy Manu !!! :teeth:



damn i wish i could suffer like you.......ya narcissistic olde bastada....


----------



## dilloduck

manu1959 said:
			
		

> damn i wish i could suffer like you.......ya narcissistic olde bastada....


 You can----use that old mind control trick of yours !  :rotflmao:


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Ok---how about" Why don't some people get through all the pain and anger of a relationship gone bad BEFORE they start another one?"


People don't realize that even if THEY are the ones who ended the relationship, and they are happy about the ending, there is still some _grieving_.  It's natural.  You need down time.  You may even need counselling.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  And if you are the other part of the realtionship, there are probably _more_ issues/anger you need to work thru.

We don't want to face our failings.  We're lazy.  We figure the person we meet will be the answer to our problems.  You know, the "knight in shining armor" syndrome.  Maybe you do find a connection with someone that will help you.  But you need to go into a new relationship, fresh, with something to offer.  Not something to get.


----------



## manu1959

dilloduck said:
			
		

> You can----use that old mind control trick of yours !  :rotflmao:



i prefer talking to you....


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> People don't realize that even if THEY are the ones who ended the relationship, and they are happy about the ending, there is still some _grieving_.  It's natural.  You need down time.  You may even need counselling.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  And if you are the other part of the realtionship, there are probably _more_ issues/anger you need to work thru.
> 
> We don't want to face our failings.  We're lazy.  We figure the person we meet will be the answer to our problems.  You know, the "knight in shining armor" syndrome.  Maybe you do find a connection with someone that will help you.  But you need to go into a new relationship, fresh, with something to offer.  Not something to get.



people like other people to feel sorry for them.....plus you get the pity fook that way


----------



## Joz

manu1959 said:
			
		

> people like other people to feel sorry for them.....plus you get the pity fook that way


Sure, we all like a little sympathy.  But when you carry this baggage around with you from relationship to relationship, it gets tiring.  You begin to alienate yourself from people & relationships and you never seem to figure out why they just don't work.  Why do I keep getting those same kind of guys who treat me (fill in the blank)? You need to take pause.  Heal.  Get rid of that garbage.  Stop doing the same dance.


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

manu1959 said:
			
		

> people like other people to feel sorry for them.....plus you get the pity fook that way


I like the Make-up fook better.
(don't think I've never played the pitty fook card though)
 :teeth:


----------



## Joz

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> I like the Make-up fook better.
> (don't think I've never played the pitty fook card though)
> :teeth:


You guys are nasty,  I tho't it was a _typo_!!!


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

Joz said:
			
		

> You guys are nasty,  I tho't it was a _typo_!!!


 :teeth: 
Who????
ME?????

NEVER!!!!


----------



## Joz

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> :teeth:
> Who????
> ME?????
> 
> NEVER!!!!


I apologize.  I must have mistaken you for some other ASS.


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

Joz said:
			
		

> I apologize.  I must have mistaken you for some other ASS.


Are you sure???
My ass is hard to mistake being so sexy and all.
J/K

You really think I'm an ass???


----------



## Shattered

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> :teeth:
> Who????
> ME?????
> 
> NEVER!!!!



Wow..  Nasty, a pig, and an ass all in an hour.. You're on a roll.


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

Shattered said:
			
		

> Wow..  Nasty, a pig, and an ass all in an hour.. You're on a roll.


Guess what's on my mind today???


----------



## Joz

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> Are you sure???
> My ass is hard to mistake being so sexy and all.
> J/K...You really think I'm an ass???


If I _really_ tho't that....you'd know.


----------



## Shattered

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> Guess what's on my mind today???



I can't imagine.. Why don't you share with the class?


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

Shattered said:
			
		

> I can't imagine.. Why don't you share with the class?


I've tried but you all have turned me down.
Guess I have to buy you dinner first huh? :teeth:


----------



## Joz

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> Guess what's on my mind today???


Should I call and *warn* your wife?


----------



## Shattered

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> I've tried but you all have turned me down.
> Guess I have to buy you dinner first huh? :teeth:



Pig.  :tng:


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

Joz said:
			
		

> Should I call and *warn* your wife?


Oh she knows.....
She found out this morning.


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

Shattered said:
			
		

> Pig.  :tng:


mmmmm BACON.......
Sounds good.
is that all I have to buy you first?


----------



## Shattered

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> mmmmm BACON.......
> Sounds good.
> is that all I have to buy you first?



  :bat:


----------



## Shattered

JOKER96BRAVO said:
			
		

> mmmmm BACON.......
> Sounds good.
> is that all I have to buy you first?



Nice edit, punk.


----------



## JOKER96BRAVO

Uh oh....
SE is back.

Thought the nasty talk was done for the night didn't you?


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> People don't realize that even if THEY are the ones who ended the relationship, and they are happy about the ending, there is still some _grieving_.  It's natural.  You need down time.  You may even need counselling.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  And if you are the other part of the realtionship, there are probably _more_ issues/anger you need to work thru.
> 
> We don't want to face our failings.  We're lazy.  We figure the person we meet will be the answer to our problems.  You know, the "knight in shining armor" syndrome.  Maybe you do find a connection with someone that will help you.  But you need to go into a new relationship, fresh, with something to offer.  Not something to get.



Exactly. Loving is about giving, not getting!


----------



## manu1959

mom4 said:
			
		

> Exactly. Loving is about giving, not getting!



totally agree....if you love me yall give me some....where you been all my life


----------



## no1tovote4

mom4 said:
			
		

> Exactly. Loving is about giving, not getting!



Loving is about both giving and getting.  A truly healthy relationship will have give and take.  If it is only about giving a girl/guy can truly be taken advantage of by one who is not willing to give any at all.


----------



## dmp

..actually...

Love is 'not' about getting.  Love is purely unselfish.  




			
				God said:
			
		

> Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. Love is never glad about injustice, but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.


Id Est...



			
				God said:
			
		

> Love does not give up. Love is kind. Love is not jealous. Love does not put itself up as being important. Love has no pride.
> Love does not do the wrong thing. Love never thinks of itself. Love does not get angry. Love does not remember the suffering that comes from being hurt by someone.
> Love is not happy with sin. Love is happy with the truth.
> Love takes everything that comes without giving up. Love believes all things. Love hopes for all things. Love keeps on in all things.
> Love never comes to an end.



Id Est....


			
				God said:
			
		

> Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self.  Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love doesn't strut, Doesn't have a swelled head,
> Doesn't force itself on others, Isn't always "me first," Doesn't fly off the handle, Doesn't keep score of the sins of others, Doesn't revel when others grovel, Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth, Puts up with anything,  Trusts God always, Always looks for the best, Never looks back, But keeps going to the end.  Love never dies


----------



## no1tovote4

-=d=- said:
			
		

> ..actually...
> 
> Love is 'not' about getting.  Love is purely unselfish.
> 
> 
> 
> Id Est...
> 
> 
> 
> Id Est....



It depends on what you are taking.  If you truly love somebody what they give will be taken in the way it was given rather than judged.

For example, it is love when somebody gives you a gift that is accepted gratefully and willingly recognizing the motive behind the gift, even if it is something you already have, didn't like to begin with, and were ready to throw away yesterday but didn't have the time.

Love is recognizing the personal value of a gift even though the intrinsic value may be "too large" for you to accept politely, or "too small" to be of monetary value to yourself.

There is more to love than simply giving.

In short, it is important to realize that love can be accepting what others are giving as much as giving of yourself.


----------



## Joz

no1tovote4 said:
			
		

> .......In short, it is important to realize that love can be accepting what others are giving as much as giving of yourself.



"Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want, doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have".


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> "Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want, doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have".




That REALLY makes me feel bad about resenting my wife!

lol


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> That REALLY makes me feel bad about resenting my wife!
> 
> lol


WHY??  Just because you love someone or someone loves you, doesn't mean a thing.  Love is......just love.
But if you or someone else is in a relationship where their needs aren't being met, then I think that it should be looked at very carefully.  I'm not talking about being waited on and your every whim met.  Each of us needs certain things that make us feel good/complete/connected/loved/etc.  If you can't get them from the person you're with, what good is the relationship???


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> WHY??  Just because you love someone or someone loves you, doesn't mean a thing.  Love is......just love.
> But if you or someone else is in a relationship where their needs aren't being met, then I think that it should be looked at very carefully.  I'm not talking about being waited on and your every whim met.  Each of us needs certain things that make us feel good/complete/connected/loved/etc.  If you can't get them from the person you're with, what good is the relationship???


 alright--what needs are you talking bout here??


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> alright--what needs are you talking bout here??


Some people require their partner to have in-depth conversations with them, for example.  If they get a partner who'd rather be by themselves, problems erupt.  NO person can be EVERYTHING to their partner.....that's why we have friends.  But if important needs aren't or won't be met by your partner, then, unintentionally, you get those needs met....however you can.....and _that_ can be REAL trouble.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Some people require their partner to have in-depth conversations with them, for example.  If they get a partner who'd rather be by themselves, problems erupt.  NO person can be EVERYTHING to their partner.....that's why we have friends.  But if important needs aren't or won't be met by your partner, then, unintentionally, you get those needs met....however you can.....and _that_ can be REAL trouble.



UNINTENTIONALLY ???


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> UNINTENTIONALLY ???


Scenario:  Man & woman are togehter.  Man comes home & eats dinner, then watches TV for the night.......EVERY night.  The woman just wants adult conversation,  for her hubby to act like he's slightly interested in her; and not just to bang her when he needs a release.  
So, one day, she's at the library.  Picks up a book, some man comments it's good, they chat a minute, they go their seperate ways.  Maybe next week, she's at the library again, and lo & behold who does she run in to.  A little more conversation.  
Eventually, this woman begins to look forward to going to the library because someone finds her interesting, someone is paying attention to her.   See where I'm going?


----------



## Nienna

no1tovote4 said:
			
		

> It depends on what you are taking.  If you truly love somebody what they give will be taken in the way it was given rather than judged.
> 
> For example, it is love when somebody gives you a gift that is accepted gratefully and willingly recognizing the motive behind the gift, even if it is something you already have, didn't like to begin with, and were ready to throw away yesterday but didn't have the time.
> 
> Love is recognizing the personal value of a gift even though the intrinsic value may be "too large" for you to accept politely, or "too small" to be of monetary value to yourself.
> 
> There is more to love than simply giving.
> 
> In short, it is important to realize that love can be accepting what others are giving as much as giving of yourself.



My grandma tole my mama... "Being a gracious receiver is a gift in and of itself." It's still giving. 

I am not talking about allowing someone to walk all over you. In a case like that, the most loving/giving thing to do is to stand up for yourself. Giving doesn't always mean giving them their own way. It means giving them what is good.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Scenario:  Man & woman are togehter.  Man comes home & eats dinner, then watches TV for the night.......EVERY night.  The woman just wants adult conversation,  for her hubby to act like he's slightly interested in her; and not just to bang her when he needs a release.
> So, one day, she's at the library.  Picks up a book, some man comments it's good, they chat a minute, they go their seperate ways.  Maybe next week, she's at the library again, and lo & behold who does she run in to.  A little more conversation.
> Eventually, this woman begins to look forward to going to the library because someone finds her interesting, someone is paying attention to her.   See where I'm going?


  Ya  to get a room


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> WHY??  Just because you love someone or someone loves you, doesn't mean a thing.  Love is......just love.
> But if you or someone else is in a relationship where their needs aren't being met, then I think that it should be looked at very carefully.  I'm not talking about being waited on and your every whim met.  Each of us needs certain things that make us feel good/complete/connected/loved/etc.  If you can't get them from the person you're with, what good is the relationship???





At this point its a matter of:

 Commitment > Needs


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Ya  to get a room


Hopefully it stops before there, but you've got the picture!


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> At this point its a matter of:
> 
> Commitment > Needs


What happens when the other person has already broken that committmen/covenant by their behavior/treatment, etc?


----------



## Nienna

-=d=- said:
			
		

> At this point its a matter of:
> 
> Commitment > Needs



This is true. As long as you make sure you are committed to the right thing.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> What happens when the other person has already broken that committmen/covenant by their behavior/treatment, etc?



I can only answer for 'my' actions.  In spite of everything, I have to do what 'darin' thinks is right...regardless.


----------



## dmp

mom4 said:
			
		

> This is true. As long as you make sure you are committed to the right thing.



Committed to live up to one's 'promise'...


----------



## Nienna

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Committed to live up to one's 'promise'...



This is a good thing, given that I assume you are a Christian. (Others might see this as nonsense.) You can rely on God to fill your other needs. 

But...and this might be too personal, please don't be offended... if your wife is also a Christian, she needs to understand that she is responsible for giving of herself in this way, in a way that doesn't make you feel that you are imposing on her. She must have some emotional issues that keep her from enjoying the Father's gift of sex. As a husband, you need to encourage her to figure this out, for _her_ sake as well as _yours._


----------



## dmp

mom4 said:
			
		

> This is a good thing, given that I assume you are a Christian. (Others might see this as nonsense.) You can rely on God to fill your other needs.
> 
> But...and this might be too personal, please don't be offended... if your wife is also a Christian, she needs to understand that she is responsible for giving of herself in this way, in a way that doesn't make you feel that you are imposing on her. She must have some emotional issues that keep her from enjoying the Father's gift of sex. As a husband, you need to encourage her to figure this out, for _her_ sake as well as _yours._




She enjoys it...I know...she's not THAT good of an actor! :




or is she??? GasP!


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> This is a good thing, given that I assume you are a Christian. (Others might see this as nonsense.) You can rely on God to fill your other needs.
> 
> But...and this might be too personal, please don't be offended... if your wife is also a Christian, she needs to understand that she is responsible for giving of herself in this way, in a way that doesn't make you feel that you are imposing on her. She must have some emotional issues that keep her from enjoying the Father's gift of sex. As a husband, you need to encourage her to figure this out, for _her_ sake as well as _yours._


Finally.  Somone on my side!


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> Finally.  Somone on my side!


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Finally.  Somone on my side!




and what side would that be??


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> and what side would that be??


You have to ask????  The _right_ side, of course.


----------



## Joz

I'm going to try to explain my stance on sex in marriage a bit clearer.

Moe loves dessert.  Moe eats dessert everyday, every meal.  Moe is very happy.  But one day, Moe realizes that even tho' he gorges on dessert, he gets waaay to hungry before it's time to eat again.  So Moe decides to eat something else with his dessert.  Little by little Moe realizes that by eating a full meal with his dessert, he stays satisfied much longer and is still happy.
You can't live by sex--the dessert-- alone in any relationship.  You much have the meat & potatoes of a relationship first; the deep committment,friendship, conversation, mutual goals, faith, trust.....You can survive forever without ever having dessert, but by having both, you have a full & balanced union.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> I'm going to try to explain my stance on sex in marriage a bit clearer.
> 
> Moe loves dessert.  Moe eats dessert everyday, every meal.  Moe is very happy.  But one day, Moe realizes that even tho' he gorges on dessert, he gets waaay to hungry before it's time to eat again.  So Moe decides to eat something else with his dessert.  Little by little Moe realizes that by eating a full meal with his dessert, he stays satisfied much longer and is still happy.
> You can't live by sex--the dessert-- alone in any relationship.  You much have the meat & potatoes of a relationship first; the deep committment,friendship, conversation, mutual goals, faith, trust.....You can survive forever without ever having dessert, but by having both, you have a full & balanced union.



Why can't ya just have em all at the same time?


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Why can't ya just have em all at the same time?


Isn't that what I said?


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> I'm going to try to explain my stance on sex in marriage a bit clearer.
> 
> Moe loves dessert.  Moe eats dessert everyday, every meal.  Moe is very happy.  But one day, Moe realizes that even tho' he gorges on dessert, he gets waaay to hungry before it's time to eat again.  So Moe decides to eat something else with his dessert.  Little by little Moe realizes that by eating a full meal with his dessert, he stays satisfied much longer and is still happy.
> You can't live by sex--the dessert-- alone in any relationship.  You much have the meat & potatoes of a relationship first; the deep committment,friendship, conversation, mutual goals, faith, trust.....You can survive forever without ever having dessert, but by having both, you have a full & balanced union.



I agree - this is how I explain it:

There comes from love-making a certain bond which cannot be formed through other means.  That isn't to say a marriage can't be secure, it's to say the marriage won't be as strong as it 'could' or maybe even 'should' be.  

Do we want an 'adequate' marriage?

Do we want a marriage of a 'higher standard'?

We have to ask ourselves that question...


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> I'm going to try to explain my stance on sex in marriage a bit clearer.
> 
> Moe loves dessert.  Moe eats dessert everyday, every meal.  Moe is very happy.  But one day, Moe realizes that even tho' he gorges on dessert, he gets waaay to hungry before it's time to eat again.  So Moe decides to eat something else with his dessert.  Little by little Moe realizes that by eating a full meal with his dessert, he stays satisfied much longer and is still happy.
> You can't live by sex--the dessert-- alone in any relationship.  You much have the meat & potatoes of a relationship first; the deep committment,friendship, conversation, mutual goals, faith, trust.....You can survive forever without ever having dessert, but by having both, you have a full & balanced union.



Great analogy, Joz!
I agree with -=d=-, too. The sexual bond was created to be a unique and very strong thing. Without getting too graphic, I have read that body chemistry actually changes after this act. It's my belief that it should be a regular and frequent action in a marriage. I find that I get much less frustrated, resentful, or irritated with my husband if it is. I think it's God's way of holding you together, because, Heaven knows, living together is a VERY difficult thing!  :bangheads:


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> Great analogy, Joz!
> I agree with -=d=-, too. The sexual bond was created to be a unique and very strong thing. Without getting too graphic, I have read that body chemistry actually changes after this act. It's my belief that it should be a regular and frequent action in a marriage. I find that I get much less frustrated, resentful, or irritated with my husband if it is. I think it's God's way of holding you together, because, Heaven knows, living together is a VERY difficult thing!  :bangheads:


I don't think alot of women understand this.  We are always told how much men need the physical release sex offers.  But women need it too.  The experience is just more emotional for women.  Yet men need it for that reason also.  I posted once about women and orgasms and Sir Evil had to delete it because of some complaints.  I tho't it was very enlightening; something men should have read.

PS>  *FYI*  It was an article/stats taken from the book, The Big O.  Forgot the author.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Isn't that what I said?



my bad---I thought it was necessary to eat X number of meals WITHOUT desert first.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> my bad---I thought it was necessary to eat X number of meals WITHOUT desert first.


No, it's just possible.  But not nearly as enjoyable!!


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> I don't think alot of women understand this.  We are always told how much men need the physical release sex offers.  But women need it too.  The experience is just more emotional for women.  Yet men need it for that reason also.  I posted once about women and orgasms and Sir Evil had to delete it because of some complaints.  I tho't it was very enlightening; something men should have read.



Now...if you girls could have an 'intervention' with a lot of our wives....



woot!


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> I posted once about women and orgasms and Sir Evil had to delete it because of some complaints.



?...........wait didn't god invent orgasms


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Now...if you girls could have an 'intervention' with a lot of our wives....woot!


Aren't you the comedian?  
Somehow I don't think, "Hi, I'm Joz from the USMB.  I think you should put-out more for your hubby"  would go over quite so well.


----------



## Joz

manu1959 said:
			
		

> ?...........wait didn't god invent orgasms


 We all know how basic men are.  Sorry.   But women can be more difficult.  I tho't it was very interesting; natural. I should have checked, I guess.  In fact, there's alot who don't approve of this thread. (Got a few PM's from some women, tho'.)


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Aren't you the comedian?
> Somehow I don't think, "Hi, I'm Joz from the USMB.  I think you should put-out more for your hubby"  would go over quite so well.




I'd settle for '...just HOLD Him more....after you put out!"

:


----------



## Bonnie

manu1959 said:
			
		

> ?...........wait didn't god invent orgasms




Yes !!!!!   As an inticement for marriage and family


----------



## Nienna

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Yes !!!!!   As an inticement for marriage and family


And as a special gift just for our pleasure! That's the way it is with God!


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I agree - this is how I explain it:
> 
> There comes from love-making a certain bond which cannot be formed through other means.  That isn't to say a marriage can't be secure, it's to say the marriage won't be as strong as it 'could' or maybe even 'should' be.
> 
> Do we want an 'adequate' marriage?
> 
> Do we want a marriage of a 'higher standard'?
> 
> We have to ask ourselves that question...



I think your right.  the whole point of sex and intimacy in a marriage is to keep a bond between husband and wife that no one else can share in, and creates a kinship that others can't intrude on.  Marriage only gets better when intimacy is good.  Problem is though is popular culture has many convinced that if they are not having sex all the time like bunnies hanging from chandeliers or over the kitchen sink their not having great sex.  People need to find their own way towards what they find sexy and passionate.  I also think men are told that if they aren't sex machines all the time there must be something wrong with them, this of course isn't true at all.  Balance is the key, marriage first, family a close second, then jobs etc. JMO


----------



## Bonnie

mom4 said:
			
		

> And as a special gift just for our pleasure! That's the way it is with God!




Absolutely!!


----------



## dmp

There's an old joke...

A husband and wife created a code-word for when they wanted to let the other know they were feeling frisky.  "Washing Machine".

Monday night, after the kids were in bed, the husband whispers to the wife...
"washing machine, dear..."

The reply came, "Oh, I'm SOO tired after my long day...not tonight, honey."

Tuesday night, when the house was quiet, the husband leaned over again with the code word.

Again he was shot down, thanks to a head ache.

This happened for a few more nights until saturday night, after things had settled down for the evening, the wife finally returned the call to the husband, "Honey, Washing Machine!!"

The husband turned to the wife with, "It was a small load, so I did it by hand..."

I'm convinced there is something that happens in a relationship when one partner's 'appitites' are met in ANY other way than with the non-hungry spouse.   Even 'hand-washing' can create distance between a couple...


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> .....I'm convinced there is something that happens in a relationship when one partner's 'appitites' are met in ANY other way than with the non-hungry spouse.   Even 'hand-washing' can create distance between a couple...


YES!  That's why I say that helping with the 'handwashing' does wonders!!


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> YES!  That's why I say that helping with the 'handwashing' does wonders!!




...except one hates to feel like a charity case...has to be done sensatively...


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> I think your right.  the whole point of sex and intimacy in a marriage is to keep a bond between husband and wife that no one else can share in, and creates a kinship that others can't intrude on.....  People need to find their own way towards what they find sexy and passionate.....


This is where I get confused.  
**If two people stay virgins 'til marriage, then they learn each other completely.  No other influence.  They adjust to each others wants/needs/desires.  Maybe that's only in utopia.

**What if you do stay virginal and then find out he or she isn't interested in sex?  That they indeed really don't care about your needs?  They didn't marry for that privilege?

**Being intimate _is_ a bond.  You can't go around bonding with just anyone because you have the desire.

**When Mary was pregnant with Jesus, Joseph was advised to get rid of her because she was not carrying HIS child.  NOT that she was pregnant.  Could it be that sex is ok when you're betrothed?  What happens during this time if you find out you are incompatible?  Have you committed fornication?


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> There's an old joke...
> 
> A husband and wife created a code-word for when they wanted to let the other know they were feeling frisky.  "Washing Machine".
> 
> Monday night, after the kids were in bed, the husband whispers to the wife...
> "washing machine, dear..."
> 
> The reply came, "Oh, I'm SOO tired after my long day...not tonight, honey."
> 
> Tuesday night, when the house was quiet, the husband leaned over again with the code word.
> 
> Again he was shot down, thanks to a head ache.
> 
> This happened for a few more nights until saturday night, after things had settled down for the evening, the wife finally returned the call to the husband, "Honey, Washing Machine!!"
> 
> The husband turned to the wife with, "It was a small load, so I did it by hand..."
> 
> I'm convinced there is something that happens in a relationship when one partner's 'appitites' are met in ANY other way than with the non-hungry spouse.   Even 'hand-washing' can create distance between a couple...



back to the meal analogy---one wants a lot of potatoes--ones doesn't--how is the one who eats more potatoes taking anything away form the one who wants less?  (please not the hobbit avatar again d) ! lol


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> *When Mary was pregnant with Jesus, Joseph was advised to get rid of her because she was not carrying HIS child.  NOT that she was pregnant.  Could it be that sex is ok when you're betrothed?  What happens during this time if you find out you are incompatible?  Have you committed fornication?




Marriage is a committment between two people and God.  Marriage is 'not' a ceremony or a license.  Compatability IS as compatability DOES I believe; but can't prove, nor even argue at this point...lol   You know me pretty well Joz...I've got a PhD in Compatability Issues...lol..


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> This is where I get confused.
> **If two people stay virgins 'til marriage, then they learn each other completely.  No other influence.  They adjust to each others wants/needs/desires.  Maybe that's only in utopia.
> 
> **What if you do stay virginal and then find out he or she isn't interested in sex?  That they indeed really don't care about your needs?  They didn't marry for that privilege?
> 
> **Being intimate _is_ a bond.  You can't go around bonding with just anyone because you have the desire.
> 
> **When Mary was pregnant with Jesus, Joseph was advised to get rid of her because she was not carrying HIS child.  NOT that she was pregnant.  Could it be that sex is ok when you're betrothed?  What happens during this time if you find out you are incompatible?  Have you committed fornication?



ask your conscience---if it says yes, ask for forgiveness and don't do it again.



> **If two people stay virgins 'til marriage, then they learn each other completely. No other influence. They adjust to each others wants/needs/desires. Maybe that's only in utopia.


yuck--turns 2 people into one mess------if I adjust to you then you don't know who I really am because I'm too busy adjusting---how about learning how to accept the parts of the other person that doesn't exactly fit with you.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> This is where I get confused.
> **If two people stay virgins 'til marriage, then they learn each other completely.  No other influence.  They adjust to each others wants/needs/desires.  Maybe that's only in utopia.



I'm not wanting to advocate fornication...however...I think its not wise to assume they will adjust to eachother's needs.   People only recognize what they need after time.  I can't see being virgins-till-marriage helping avoid the inevetable; sexual conflict.

(sigh).


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> YES!  That's why I say that helping with the 'handwashing' does wonders!!



Exactly!  Sex doesn't always have to be about both people being in the mood, sometimes just doing the warmup gets you in the mood and if not at least one partner is happy, next time who knows??


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> yuck--turns 2 people into one mess------if I adjust to you then you don't know who I really am because I'm too busy adjusting---how about learning how to accept the parts of the other person that doesn't exactly fit with you.


I'm not talking about tap dancing to please the other.  Changing who you are to please someone.

I'm talking about for example, If you like to be touched gently, then why would I want to _smack_ you on the behind?  If  you want to change positions once in a while, why would you (or I)  stay on their back every single time?  THOSE kinds of adjustments.  You learn to 'please' the other person in ways that feel good to them.  You do things because _they want it_ not because YOU THINK they should like it.


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Exactly!  Sex doesn't always have to be about both people being in the mood, sometimes just doing the warmup gets you in the mood and if not at least one partner is happy, next time who knows??




Can someone PLEASE explain why mastubation hurts anyone? ( besides going blind of course)


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Exactly!  Sex doesn't always have to be about both people being in the mood, sometimes just doing the warmup gets you in the mood and if not at least one partner is happy, next time who knows??


Thank you,  Bonnie!!!!!  Why is this so hard to understand???!!!


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Thank you,  Bonnie!!!!!  Why is this so hard to understand???!!!



It's not---it just isn't always the answer.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> It's not---it just isn't always the answer.


Isn't always the answer to what?

Do you think I'm advocating sex as a solution to marital problems?  If so, you've misunderstood _every one_ of my comments, this whole thread.


----------



## dilloduck

Joz said:
			
		

> Isn't always the answer to what?
> 
> Do you think I'm advocating sex as a solution to marital problems?  If so, you've misunderstood _every one_ of my comments, this whole thread.



Sex really solves very little unless someone thinks sex also means acceptance,security, friendship etc. If sex is synonymous with any of these you got yourself some trouble brewing. All of these are and should be attainable with no sex at all!  (oh ya--why is it bad to masturbate by yourself)


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> This is where I get confused.
> **If two people stay virgins 'til marriage, then they learn each other completely.  No other influence.  They adjust to each others wants/needs/desires.  Maybe that's only in utopia.
> 
> **What if you do stay virginal and then find out he or she isn't interested in sex?  That they indeed really don't care about your needs?  They didn't marry for that privilege?
> 
> **Being intimate _is_ a bond.  You can't go around bonding with just anyone because you have the desire.
> 
> **When Mary was pregnant with Jesus, Joseph was advised to get rid of her because she was not carrying HIS child.  NOT that she was pregnant.  Could it be that sex is ok when you're betrothed?  What happens during this time if you find out you are incompatible?  Have you committed fornication?



Well i can only tell you form my religion/perspective that the whole reason for that is if you are intimate with many people then there really is no reason to marry any of them. Also I don't believe in sexual compatability being something that you need to experiment with many people to know where you stand.  My own opinion is that sex comes naturally to those who want to be with another person, as far as finding the perfect sexual partner I don't think is realistic because people undoubtedly change over a lifetime, pressure from jobs, money, inlaws, kids etc can distract people from maintaining a good sex life. The measure of a good marriage and sex life is the willingness of each partner to adapt and be consdierate of eachother's desires as best you can.  If it happens that one person is completley shut off then counseling might help, if one is unwilling to admit there is a problem then maybe the marriage is unsalvagable, however the point is this that should be an absolute last resort after doing everything you can to save the marriage.. You can't change someone but you can change how you react to that person.

Beleive me Im not one to say virginity till marriage is easy or even realistic, but I also don't think sleeping around is the answer either if your actually looking for the right one.

Best thing people can do is really be committed to the marriage in the first place and *make time * to have a good sex life so the marriage never deteriorates into something that even needs help.

JMO??

*Theres another saying that goes something like" the one who shares your bed is the one that comes first always" 
* (no pun intended.)


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Can someone PLEASE explain why mastubation hurts anyone? ( besides going blind of course)



Masturbating opens doors for lusting after what you don't have.  Frankly, I'd get my feelings hurt if my wife took to Bzzzzzzzz LightYear....a 'toy rocket'....because I wasn't giving her what she needed.  Not to say those things can't be incorporated - it's to say i feel it's my duty to be that release, both physical AND emotional, for my spouse.   

Wackin' it, especially in front of dirty pics/vids, can create desires for what one doesn't have...Plus, one may not only resent their spouse for their spouses lack of attention, they may add-on resentment for 'making a grown, married adult have to revert back to age 15." etc..


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Marriage is a committment between two people and God.  Marriage is 'not' a ceremony or a license.  Compatability IS as compatability DOES I believe; but can't prove, nor even argue at this point...lol   You know me pretty well Joz...I've got a PhD in Compatability Issues...lol..


That is precisely my POINT.  COMPATIBILITY IS IMPORTANT, I don't care how you slice it.  In many more ways than just sex, I might add.  That's what dating is all about.  We seem to all understand that we need to have the same belief system, a few things in common, that sort of thing.  But what happens when someone misrepresents themselves?   I know a person who got involved with another as they portrayed themselves as a good 'christan, wants a family' person.  But in reality had their own selfish, self-serving agenda. Marriage IS a commitment, not entered into lightly.

But we seem to keep coming back to the sex thing is the only reason I talk about it.  If you want to talk about  something else, I'm game.


----------



## dilloduck

IMHO, the very worst you can do in a relationship is expect the other person to take care of needs that are your own responsibilty. After you're married you don't swap pink slips-----you still own you and your mate still owns him/herself. Relationships are for two people to bring different things into and share, not just take care of the other so the other takes care of you.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> But we seem to keep coming back to the sex thing is the only reason I talk about it.  If you want to talk about  something else, I'm game.



I Feel sex is a subject MUCH deeper than most people will admit too. I believe it's a powerful tool towards a healthy relationship.  Yes, when we are old and gray and the passion is gone, we still have to LIVE with that person, but sex while we are young can cement the foundations of our marriages which will do wonders to hold us together, when old-and-gray becomes real.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> IMHO, the very worst you can do in a relationship is expect the other person to take care of needs that are your own responsibilty. After you're married you don't swap pink slips-----you still own you and your mate still owns him/herself. Relationships are for two people to bring different things into and share, not just take care of the other so the other takes care of you.




Sort of right...except Marriages are for two individuals to become ONE.  It's about blending yourself and your spirit with your spouse.  It's about some measure of co-dependency, I suppose.


----------



## Joz

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Can someone PLEASE explain why mastubation hurts anyone? ( besides going blind of course)


Masturbation is a totally selfish act.  Tho' there may be a place for it, _constantly_ indulging yourself you alienate yourself from your partner and their needs.  Intimacy is lost.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Masturbating opens doors for lusting after what you don't have.  Frankly, I'd get my feelings hurt if my wife took to Bzzzzzzzz LightYear....a 'toy rocket'....because I wasn't giving her what she needed.  Not to say those things can't be incorporated - it's to say i feel it's my duty to be that release, both physical AND emotional, for my spouse.
> 
> Wackin' it, especially in front of dirty pics/vids, can create desires for what one doesn't have...Plus, one may not only resent their spouse for their spouses lack of attention, they may add-on resentment for 'making a grown, married adult have to revert back to age 15." etc..



Mastubating is going to lead me to the "hard stuff" ?   Naaaaaa--May keep me AWAY from the "hard stuff " tho. MAy give my partner a break when she wants one too.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Sort of right...except Marriages are for two individuals to become ONE.  It's about blending yourself and your spirit with your spouse.  It's about some measure of co-dependency, I suppose.


  

And that's referred to as *inter-dependency*.  You are independant AND dependant at the same time.  Co-dependancy is not healthy.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Mastubating is going to lead me to the "hard stuff" ?   Naaaaaa--May keep me AWAY from the "hard stuff " tho. MAy give my partner a break when she wants one too.




Whether or not you believe Joz won't affect how true her words are:



			
				Joz said:
			
		

> Masturbation is a totally selfish act.  Tho' there may be a place for it, _constantly_ indulging yourself you alienate yourself from your partner and their needs.  Intimacy is lost.




Sometimes people have no choice...better masturbating than seeking 'an outsider' to assist, in my book.   Still, chronic monkey-spanking is a sure sign something may not be 'right'.


----------



## Bonnie

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Can someone PLEASE explain why mastubation hurts anyone? ( besides going blind of course)



I don't think it is necessarily bad unless your in a marriage with someone you love and who is a willing and passionate person...because when you do that instead of being with your partner your shutting them out, also if your looking at other women it can make your partner feel very inadaquit even if they don't say so, most are afraid of seeming too jealous, I have counsled women on this and usually I recommend a book called the Centerfold Complex which talks about the dangers of men going outside the marriage for sexual fullfillment, even if it's just emotionally or mentally.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Whether or not you believe Joz won't affect how true her words are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes people have no choice...better masturbating than seeking 'an outsider' to assist, in my book.   Still, chronic monkey-spanking is a sure sign something may not be 'right'.



I'm not talking about chronic spankin here---I'm merely suggesting it as a method to balance out sexual drive. If mastubating harms intimacy then something is already pretty weak in that department. I don't know how many times I've heard woman say that they wished thier hubby would just roll over and wank sometimes.


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Masturbating opens doors for lusting after what you don't have.  Frankly, I'd get my feelings hurt if my wife took to Bzzzzzzzz LightYear....a 'toy rocket'....because I wasn't giving her what she needed.  Not to say those things can't be incorporated - it's to say i feel it's my duty to be that release, both physical AND emotional, for my spouse.
> 
> Wackin' it, especially in front of dirty pics/vids, can create desires for what one doesn't have...Plus, one may not only resent their spouse for their spouses lack of attention, they may add-on resentment for 'making a grown, married adult have to revert back to age 15." etc..




As would I if I had a husband telling me how beautiful he thought I was but he was constantly lusting after other women, and using them as a substitute for me if I was ready willing and able and kept my physical self in good shape for him and myself.


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> As would I if I had a husband telling me how beautiful he thought I was but he was constantly lusting after other women, and using them as a substitute for me if I was ready willing and able and kept my physical self in good shape for him and myself.



How do you know that he isn't thinking about you when he masturbates ???


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> I don't think it is necessarily bad unless your in a marriage with someone you love and who is a willing and passionate person...because when you do that instead of being with your partner your shutting them out, also if your looking at other women it can make your partner feel very inadaquit even if they don't say so, most are afraid of seeming too jealous, I have counsled women on this and usually I recommend a book called the Centerfold Complex which talks about the dangers of men going outside the marriage for sexual fullfillment, even if it's just emotionally or mentally.




You nailed it.  bravo.


----------



## Bonnie

dilloduck said:
			
		

> How do you know that he isn't thinking about you when he masturbates ???



Well if he is indeed thinking of me then have at it!!   As long as I wasn't in the mood to play.


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Well if he is indeed thinking of me then have at it!!   As long as I wasn't in the mood to play.


  WEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAA  you got it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bonnie

dilloduck said:
			
		

> IMHO, the very worst you can do in a relationship is expect the other person to take care of needs that are your own responsibilty. After you're married you don't swap pink slips-----you still own you and your mate still owns him/herself. Relationships are for two people to bring different things into and share, not just take care of the other so the other takes care of you.



That's exactly right, even as far as liking certain movies, or foods, but I am a firm believer in compromise when you enter a marriage you know this going in, so I think seeing a movie you don't particularly care for just to please the other then the next time they see a movie you'd like to see etc, because the important thing is enjoying each other's company, and that goes a long way to a good marriage.


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> As would I if I had a husband telling me how beautiful he thought I was but he was constantly lusting after other women, and using them as a substitute for me if I was ready willing and able and kept my physical self in good shape for him and myself.


I have top agree with Bonnie.  When masturbation is used _as a subsitiute_ for being intimate with their partner THEN _a problem exists_.  If I'm puking my guts out with the flu, I'd like to think I would be 'off the hook' for the night.  So...... 
But if this is the course of action night after night........
Most people don't want to feel undesireable to their mate.  If your spouse is drooling over some air-brushed beauty in a book, HE/SHE NEEDS HELP.


----------



## Nienna

dilloduck said:
			
		

> IMHO, the very worst you can do in a relationship is expect the other person to take care of needs that are your own responsibilty. After you're married you don't swap pink slips-----you still own you and your mate still owns him/herself. Relationships are for two people to bring different things into and share, not just take care of the other so the other takes care of you.



Being a Christian, of course, this is the exact opposite of what I believe.

ICorinthians 7

4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> That's exactly right, even as far as liking certain movies, or foods, but I am a firm believer in compromise when you enter a marriage you know this going in, so I think seeing a movie you don't particularly care for just to please the other then the next time they see a movie you'd like to see etc, because the important thing is enjoying each other's company, and that goes a long way to a good marriage.



Agreed--but lets do the compromising when necessary--not when it's sorta  "suck up" behavior or it has those damn "strings" attatched.


----------



## Bonnie

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Agreed--but lets do the compromising when necessary--not when it's sorta  "suck up" behavior or it has those damn "strings" attatched.



Of course not when it's at the expense of the other partner.

I think there are levels of compatability as well, and for each person it's different.  For me having the same beliefs in morality spirituality, etc are the most important, and the rest will fall into place, taste in foods doesn't matter as much to me, different movie taste is not a deal breaker, but infidelity is.


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> I have top agree with Bonnie.  When masturbation is used _as a subsitiute_ for being intimate with their partner THEN _a problem exists_.  If I'm puking my guts out with the flu, I'd like to think I would be 'off the hook' for the night.  So......
> But if this is the course of action night after night........
> Most people don't want to feel undesireable to their mate.  If your spouse is drooling over some air-brushed beauty in a book, HE/SHE NEEDS HELP.



You know Joz here's where I say that society is not very supportive of marriage.  And there are many beautiful women that don't pose in Playboy that are just taken for granted by their husbands becuase they are too engrossed or even addicted to pull their noses out of the magazines and appreciate what they have.

Ill never forget this, I was dating a guy and we went to a sporting event and of course the girls were there handing out brochures for a strip club.  I knew it was coming because the girls generally don't have the commonsense to respect the guys that are there with their girlfriends and not give them out to them.  Sure enough this girl handed him one, and I wasn't jealous but I was annoyed at the lack of repsect she showed for me in too many ways to count. My boyfriend gave it back to her and said "no thanks I've got much better right here" and he kissed me and winked.  I will forever remeber that.
There is this general acceptance in society that if you don't pose nude your not as pretty or as sexy as those that do.


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> My boyfriend gave it back to her and said "no thanks I've got much better right here" and he kissed me and winked.  I will forever remeber that.


How VERy sweet.  I NEVER minded my husband looking at a well-built, put-together woman.  Hell, I like to look, too.  You know, hair & nails are perfect, dressed to the nines, sexy, in her own way.  What I DID mind was when he was with me and he turned his head or all the way around to look.  I felt disrespected, and embarrassed.  I'm no beauty, by a long shot.  Don't ever have to worry about me being competition, but he was with me!  That should have been enough.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> How VERy sweet.  I NEVER minded my husband looking at a well-built, put-together woman.  Hell, I like to look, too.  You know, hair & nails are perfect, dressed to the nines, sexy, in her own way.  What I DID mind was when he was with me and he turned his head or all the way around to look.  I felt disrespected, and embarrassed.  I'm no beauty, by a long shot.  Don't ever have to worry about me being competition, but he was with me!  That should have been enough.




That's an understanding Mary and I share...we both know the difference between noticing a beautiful person of either sex and 'gawking'...


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> That's an understanding Mary and I share...we both know the difference between noticing a beautiful person of either sex and 'gawking'...



Very true, we all as people look at others... it's human nature, but when the line is crossed that's trouble.


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Very true, we all as people look at others... it's human nature, but when the line is crossed that's trouble.



I know an (ableit troulbed) young lady who told her boyfriend "If you love somebody, it's impossible to think of another person as good-looking"

wow...the misery of that young lady was palatable.


----------



## dilloduck

mom4 said:
			
		

> Being a Christian, of course, this is the exact opposite of what I believe.
> 
> ICorinthians 7
> 
> 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.



With all due respect mom--Some Christians also believe as I do so I guess a certain GROUP of Christians believe as you. Or would you just say they are not REAL Christians?


----------



## Joz

mom4 said:
			
		

> Being a Christian, of course, this is the exact opposite of what I believe.
> 
> ICorinthians 7
> 
> 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.


I don't think this is talking about ownership.  But when you join yourselves in marriage you are AS ONE.  Everything you do you consider the other person.  The way you behave, spend money, that sort of thing.  There is no way your body can belong to another person.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> With all due respect mom--Some Christians also believe as I do so I guess a certain GROUP of Christians believe as you. Or would you just say they are not REAL Christians?




No one can be a christian and not believe the Bible...it's like...claiming to be a democrat yet consistantly voting republican...sorta.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> No one can be a christian and not believe the Bible...it's like...claiming to be a democrat yet consistantly voting republican...sorta.



Right--and it all can only be interpreted in one way---never mind d--let's save it for another thread. My bad.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Right--and it all can only be interpreted in one way---never mind d--let's save it for another thread. My bad.




...there just is no way to interpret somethings but 'one' way... 

Start a new thread re: Interpretations of the Bible, etc.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> ...there just is no way to interpret somethings but 'one' way...
> 
> Start a new thread re: Interpretations of the Bible, etc.



I'm game but too tired to start it tonight. Maybe we'll all learn something


----------



## dmp

FAVOURITE song...it's about the 'ideal' relationship, imo....to 'feel' this way with a woman...that my friends...Utopia...


Phil Vassar - I take that as a Yes (the Hot Tub song)


You like a dozen wine red roses
Candle lights on porcelain set tables
And that's fine
Well, I'll go out of my way for you anytime, that's right

The fire's warm so you take off your sweater
Now it's my turn and I'll do you one better
That's the game we both like to play

(Chorus)
You wink, I laugh 'cause we know
A little hug leads to a foot rub
Then a hot tub
Then a french kiss on a bear rug
Do you like it
Do you like it
How about this
Wanna try it?
Oh, oh, oh
I'll take that as a yes

You like snugglin' with your pillow
With my arms tight holdin' us together
Breathin' deep
Driftin' like a feather in a stream

Then I touch you on the shoulder
Feel your skin soft underneath my fingers
And I know we'll never get to sleep

(chorus)

more:

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/vassar-phil/ill-take-that-as-a-yes-14144.html


----------



## Bonnie

Darin you romantic fool you !!


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Darin you romantic fool you !!




Guilty as charged....lock me up...throw away the key...


----------



## dmp

Love at first sight....ready????


DISCUSS!


----------



## Shattered

Love at first sight is possible.  Love without ever initially setting eyes on someone is possible.  It may or may not be lasting, and complete, but it is possible to a certain degree.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Love at first sight....ready????
> 
> 
> DISCUSS!




impossible without a firm definition of "love".


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> impossible without a firm definition of "love".




use your definition.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> use your definition.


 
then most definately yes-----one can give to someone they have never seen.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> one can give to someone they have never seen.




give love? or be 'in-love? either? both?


----------



## Bonnie

Maybe lust at first sight, not sure about actual love, maybe love without sight made thru another type of connection.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> give love? or be 'in-love? either? both?


in my definition of love is verb-----loving is giving


----------



## dmp

I guess I agree with Bonnie - but I'd say it's not 'sight'...perhaps it'd be more correct to call it 'Love at first encounter'.   There have been one or two precious ladies I've encountered where everything about the first meeting stirred my soul - not just my loins...I'm talking about an intense, nearly 'chemical' or (get ready for sappy) 'magical' attraction to them.  The kinda thing where my palms get sweaty, and my head starts spinning and i know, from that moment on, she and me would be wonderful together.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I guess I agree with Bonnie - but I'd say it's not 'sight'...perhaps it'd be more correct to call it 'Love at first encounter'.   There have been one or two precious ladies I've encountered where everything about the first meeting stirred my soul - not just my loins...I'm talking about an intense, nearly 'chemical' or (get ready for sappy) 'magical' attraction to them.  The kinda thing where my palms get sweaty, and my head starts spinning and i know, from that moment on, she and me would be wonderful together.



I'll buy "attraction at first sight" ! Chemistry does strange things.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I'll buy "attraction at first sight" ! Chemistry does strange things.




...but at least a couple times in my life...it's MUCH more than mere attraction.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> ...but at least a couple times in my life...it's MUCH more than mere attraction.



well what the hell happened to this love?


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> well what the hell happened to this love?



Nothing.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Nothing.


 I would have thought love to be more powerful than that.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I would have thought love to be more powerful than that.



...Only if it was acted on.  Sometimes one has to exercise good-sense. 

One girl I nearly married....She taught me more about life and love in 3 short years, than I learned in the 20 years prior.  She'll always be special to me.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> ...Only if it was acted on.  Sometimes one has to exercise good-sense.
> 
> One girl I nearly married....She taught me more about life and love in 3 short years, than I learned in the 20 years prior.  She'll always be special to me.


 Maybe this experience is like seeing an open door that you can either go thru or not. Guess that's why I wouldn't really use the word love. Love takes effort.


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> ...Only if it was acted on.  Sometimes one has to exercise good-sense.
> 
> One girl I nearly married....She taught me more about life and love in 3 short years, than I learned in the 20 years prior.  She'll always be special to me.



Why nearly??? If she was that great?   Just wondering not trying to put you on the spot.


----------



## dmp

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Maybe this experience is like seeing an open door that you can either go thru or not. Guess that's why I wouldn't really use the word love. Love takes effort.




I disagree.  Love doesn't take effort - Love emerges in one's life, and love happens.  Love exists and one can't help it a lot of times.  'relationships', however do take work.  I don't lump together relationships with 'love'.


----------



## dilloduck

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I disagree.  Love doesn't take effort - Love emerges in one's life, and love happens.  Love exists and one can't help it a lot of times.  'relationships', however do take work.  I don't lump together relationships with 'love'.



Guess that's why "love at first sight" on the relationship thread threw me and I asked for a definition.


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Why nearly??? If she was that great?   Just wondering not trying to put you on the spot.



She had no use for God; had no desire to bring kids up in Church. No desire to even learn.   She and I weren't compatable in terms of faith, upbringing....but we did share a very tight bond; just wasn't what either of us wanted in a spouse.  I was 'in love'...and I loved her with my whole heart.  I just had to be true to my faith and my standards for a wife. 

Thanks for bringing up a hard memory, Bonnie...

:

(j/k) hehe


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I disagree.  Love doesn't take effort - Love emerges in one's life, and love happens.  Love exists and one can't help it a lot of times.  'relationships', however do take work.  I don't lump together relationships with 'love'.



Love is easy, but relationships take work and effort.


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> She had no use for God; had no desire to bring kids up in Church. No desire to even learn.   She and I weren't compatable in terms of faith, upbringing....but we did share a very tight bond; just wasn't what either of us wanted in a spouse.  I was 'in love'...and I loved her with my whole heart.  I just had to be true to my faith and my standards for a wife.
> 
> Thanks for bringing up a hard memory, Bonnie...
> 
> :
> 
> (j/k) hehe



Well good to walk away from her then. Your love would have soured over the years from constant unresolvable  conflict...

Feel better?? LOL Sorry didn't mean to open old wounds, Ill slap my own hands


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Well good to walk away from her then. Your love would have soured over the years from constant unresolvable  conflict...
> 
> Feel better?? LOL Sorry didn't mean to open old wounds, Ill slap my own hands






No wounds opened, really... 

It's really can hurt to choose the hard 'right' over the easy 'wrong'.


----------



## Nienna

dilloduck said:
			
		

> With all due respect mom--Some Christians also believe as I do so I guess a certain GROUP of Christians believe as you. Or would you just say they are not REAL Christians?



It is not for me to say who is a "real" Christian and who is not. I have a hard enough time reining in my own worst impulses. I just mentioned that to illustrate what I believe about responsibility within a marriage. I would think that all Christians would view the Bible as an authoritative source. Wives and husbands have a _duty_ to "put out," as well as to fill some of their spouses' needs. Just a contrasting view from your opinion that people are responsible for filling their own needs.

And, just as an aside, I am not saying that people should expect their spouses to meet _all_ of their needs. But they can expect them to work with them at the relationship.


----------



## manu1959

mom4 said:
			
		

> It is not for me to say who is a "real" Christian and who is not. I have a hard enough time reining in my own worst impulses. I just mentioned that to illustrate what I believe about responsibility within a marriage. I would think that all Christians would view the Bible as an authoritative source. Wives and husbands have a _duty_ to "put out," as well as to fill some of their spouses' needs. Just a contrasting view from your opinion that people are responsible for filling their own needs.
> 
> And, just as an aside, I am not saying that people should expect their spouses to meet _all_ of their needs. But they can expect them to work with them at the relationship.



 :rotflmao: i can just see this tonight......  "honey.....the bible says you need to put out!"  :rotflmao:  grabs pillow and balnket and heads for the sofa


----------



## Nienna

manu1959 said:
			
		

> :rotflmao: i can just see this tonight......  "honey.....the bible says you need to put out!"  :rotflmao:  grabs pillow and balnket and heads for the sofa


LOL! Well, it's worth a try! 
I don't think it means every single time. That would not be a loving thing, say, if the wife is 9 1/2 months pregnant, and hubby wanted some. He might forgo it for awhile, just for her sake. But as a trend, the wife is responsible for putting out, and so is hubby. In that situation, where one is not "giving it up" for an extended period of time, one could bring the Bible into it, if they were both believers. Christians can be expected to live by the words in the Book.


----------



## Bonnie

mom4 said:
			
		

> LOL! Well, it's worth a try!
> I don't think it means every single time. That would not be a loving thing, say, if the wife is 9 1/2 months pregnant, and hubby wanted some. He might forgo it for awhile, just for her sake. But as a trend, the wife is responsible for putting out, and so is hubby. In that situation, where one is not "giving it up" for an extended period of time, one could bring the Bible into it, if they were both believers. Christians can be expected to live by the words in the Book.



LOL You would think that one would go over well with the men..... But honey God says you must put out....If younger guys were smart...WEll never mind.......

Kidding aside both partners are supposed to respect each other bodies but also not be stingy with them.  God really does get that sex is important in a marriage..


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> No wounds opened, really...
> 
> It's really can hurt to choose the hard 'right' over the easy 'wrong'.


And the hard 'right' might be just as wrong.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> And the hard 'right' might be just as wrong.




I feel like I'm reading a chinese proverb now...lol 

essplain? help?


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> LOL You would think that one would go over well with the men..... But honey God says you must put out....If younger guys were smart...WEll never mind.......
> 
> Kidding aside both partners are supposed to respect each other bodies but also not be stingy with them.  God really does get that sex is important in a marriage..


I know you were joking Bonnie, but what happens when you marry a person that DOESN'T want sex?  I think that a mother telling this to her daughter isn't r-e-a-l out of line.  The only way a man & woman stay connected is thru the act of sex.  It is a *bond designed by GOD*.  As couples age, they find other ways to be intimate--stay connected
Sex is _suppose_ to be a benefit, a perk of marriage.  But now a days, it's not too difficult to find a partner for the night.  So, who gives a rat's ass whether you're getting any at home or not?


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> I know you were joking Bonnie, but what happens when you marry a person that DOESN'T want sex?  I think that a mother telling this to her daughter isn't r-e-a-l out of line.  The only way a man & woman stay connected is thru the act of sex.  It is a *bond designed by GOD*.  As couples age, they find other ways to be intimate--stay connected
> Sex is _suppose_ to be a benefit, a perk of marriage.  But now a days, it's not too difficult to find a partner for the night.  So, who gives a rat's ass whether you're getting any at home or not?



if you knew the person didn't want sex when you married them.....then you got what you picked.....if you didn't know then you should have found out....

my wife and i discussed everything and i mean everthing we could think of before we decided to get married


----------



## dmp

manu1959 said:
			
		

> if you knew the person didn't want sex when you married them.....then you got what you picked.....if you didn't know then you should have found out....
> 
> my wife and i discussed everything and i mean everthing we could think of before we decided to get married





But people do change; but not at others' request.  What I believed I wanted when I was 23 is not what I believe I 'need' at age (gulp) 32. 

Same goes for my spouse - she's not exactly opposite of who she was when we wed - but she has changed her views on things about marriage, intimacy, and junk and stuff...or whatever.


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> I know you were joking Bonnie, but what happens when you marry a person that DOESN'T want sex?  I think that a mother telling this to her daughter isn't r-e-a-l out of line.  The only way a man & woman stay connected is thru the act of sex.  It is a *bond designed by GOD*.  As couples age, they find other ways to be intimate--stay connected
> Sex is _suppose_ to be a benefit, a perk of marriage.  But now a days, it's not too difficult to find a partner for the night.  So, who gives a rat's ass whether you're getting any at home or not?



If you marry a person who decides to shut out sex after marriage and they in no way will go for couseling or any kind help in this area then their partner should proabably decide if they can live with that without going outside the marriage, if not get a divorce or an anullment. Just like that would be the answer in cases of abuse, infidelity etc.

As couples age yes the sex is less frequent but they still do have it and want it especially if they are closely married.  You are right though older couples do find other ways of expressing closeness as should younger couples.

Im not clear about your last comment though?


----------



## Joz

manu1959 said:
			
		

> if you knew the person didn't want sex when you married them.....then you got what you picked.....if you didn't know then you should have found out....
> 
> my wife and i discussed everything and i mean everthing we could think of before we decided to get married


Alot of couples get married for the wrong reasons.  Do you know that about 65% marry the person they do because their 'family or friends' like the person?  We go on feelings (which are good) sometimes more than what is in actuality.  How many times a woman has married thinking ,"oh, when wer'e married, he'll _change_.  He'll change for me because he _l-o-v-e-s_ me".  She becomes a nag & he resents her for not accepting him for who/what he is.


----------



## dmp

For the record....

When my wife and I wed, we made vows.  Among those vows wer promises to:

Love.
Cherrish.
Take Care Of.
Forsake all Others.


Withholding sex is violating at least two of those vows.  It's the same as what society traditionally calls 'cheating'.  That is to say, sleeping with somebody outside one's marriage violates the promise to forsake all others.  'Not' loving or Cherrishing the person you vowed to also violates that promise.

We tend to focus on 'adultry' in my mind, because we as creatures love Drama.  There is very little drama for the rest of us when one poor woman or man cries themself to sleep each night because their mate won't acknowldge them in a real, intimate way.


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> If you marry a person who decides to shut out sex after marriage and they in no way will go for couseling or any kind help in this area then their partner should proabably decide if they can live with that without going outside the marriage, if not get a divorce or an anullment. Just like that would be the answer in cases of abuse, infidelity etc.
> 
> As couples age yes the sex is less frequent but they still do have it and want it especially if they are closely married.  You are right though older couples do find other ways of expressing closeness as should younger couples.
> 
> Im not clear about your last comment though?


I was aggravated.  
You have given some very good solutions.


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> Alot of couples get married for the wrong reasons.  Do you know that about 65% marry the person they do because their 'family or friends' like the person?  We go on feelings (which are good) sometimes more than what is in actuality.  How many times a woman has married thinking ,"oh, when wer'e married, he'll _change_.  He'll change for me because he _l-o-v-e-s_ me".  She becomes a nag & he resents her for not accepting him for who/what he is.



i am sure would agree that people such as those you describe are stupid....i would guess they put more effort into buying a car...getting married is the scond most important decission you will make in life ....people should put some effort into the decission process...


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> But people do change; but not at others' request.  What I believed I wanted when I was 23 is not what I believe I 'need' at age (gulp) 32.
> 
> Same goes for my spouse - she's not exactly opposite of who she was when we wed - but she has changed her views on things about marriage, intimacy, and junk and stuff...or whatever.


Yes, people DO change.  We're _suppose_ to change, grow.  But as a loving spouse we are to adapt to that change. A relationship is to ebb & flow; and sometimes the sea gets real rough, but you ride the waves to calmer water.


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> Yes, people DO change.  We're _suppose_ to change, grow.  But as a loving spouse we are to adapt to that change. A relationship is to ebb & flow; and sometimes the sea gets real rough, but you ride the waves to calmer water.



well said but the success of this is also dependant on how far apart the two of you were in the first place....the less common ground you have to reatreat to.... the harder finding the calm seas will be....


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I feel like I'm reading a chinese proverb now...lol
> 
> essplain? help?


You got the hots for this sweet young thing, but she doesn't have the same values as you do, so you pass her by.

The other girl has the same beliefs, morals values, and you have a few 'feelings' towards her.  

Which is the right choice?


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> You got the hots for this sweet young thing, but she doesn't have the same values as you do, so you pass her by.
> 
> The other girl has the same beliefs, morals values, and you have a few 'feelings' towards her.
> 
> Which is the right choice?



how olde am I and have i been to russia yet?


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> Yes, people DO change.  We're _suppose_ to change, grow.  But as a loving spouse we are to adapt to that change. A relationship is to ebb & flow; and sometimes the sea gets real rough, but you ride the waves to calmer water.



And there is a very definite difference when someone outright lies or misrepresents themselves before marriage then changes after to  those who before getting married really get to know eachother by being totally honest about where they stand on everything.  Small or larger changes are easily adapted to if both partners love each other enough to make adjustments, but sometimes the larger problems are just not solvable.


----------



## Nienna

Joz said:
			
		

> You got the hots for this sweet young thing, but she doesn't have the same values as you do, so you pass her by.
> 
> The other girl has the same beliefs, morals values, and you have a few 'feelings' towards her.
> 
> Which is the right choice?



One would hope to find a person who has both beliefs/morals in common with you, as well as "the hots." But once you're actually IN the amrriage, I think the right thing to do is stick it out, and PRAY!


----------



## manu1959

Bonnie said:
			
		

> And there is a very definite difference when someone outright lies or misrepresents themselves before marriage then changes after to  those who before getting married really get to know eachother by being totally honest about where they stand on everything.  Small or larger changes are easily adapted to if both partners love each other enough to make adjustments, but sometimes the larger problems are just not solvable.



well said....but if you date long enough.....won't you find most of this out?


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> You got the hots for this sweet young thing, but she doesn't have the same values as you do, so you pass her by.
> 
> The other girl has the same beliefs, morals values, and you have a few 'feelings' towards her.
> 
> Which is the right choice?



Maybe neither one??
Why settle?  Find someone that is compatable with you on many levels *and* turns you on big time.  Just a thought?


----------



## Bonnie

manu1959 said:
			
		

> well said....but if you date long enough.....won't you find most of this out?



You would think so wouldn't you.  But I can tell you from personal experience that there are some very diabolical people out there that only care about a person as a conquest, and keep very important secrets to themselves knowing if you knew you would do the right thing and leave them before the marriage.  Makes great reasons for anullments.


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Maybe neither one??
> Why settle?  Find someone that is compatable with you on many levels *and* turns you on big time.  Just a thought?


I couldn't agree, more.

But what if you're getting pressured by family or firends?  What happens when insecurity rears it's ugly head and I begin to think that if I pass this one up, I'll be alone the rest of my life?  This may be my one chance.


----------



## archangel

Bonnie said:
			
		

> I don't think it is necessarily bad unless your in a marriage with someone you love and who is a willing and passionate person...because when you do that instead of being with your partner your shutting them out, also if your looking at other women it can make your partner feel very inadaquit even if they don't say so, most are afraid of seeming too jealous, I have counsled women on this and usually I recommend a book called the Centerfold Complex which talks about the dangers of men going outside the marriage for sexual fullfillment, even if it's just emotionally or mentally.



This is a funny topic...all I can add is that in my golden years is that:Sex is like eating icecream...taste very good but melts fast..I'm more into the kids,camping,fishing,boating and occassionally flying..alot more work,however it does tend to last longer...lol :happy2:


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> You got the hots for this sweet young thing, but she doesn't have the same values as you do, so you pass her by.
> 
> The other girl has the same beliefs, morals values, and you have a few 'feelings' towards her.
> 
> Which is the right choice?



Touché, my friend....Touché.


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> I couldn't agree, more.
> 
> But what if you're getting pressured by family or firends?  What happens when insecurity rears it's ugly head and I begin to think that if I pass this one up, I'll be alone the rest of my life?  This may be my one chance.




Family and friends are never agood reason to marry someone, after all you the one that has to wake up with that person everyday the don't.


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Maybe neither one??
> Why settle?  Find someone that is compatable with you on many levels *and* turns you on big time.  Just a thought?




Bingo.  Lessons Learned.


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> You would think so wouldn't you.  But I can tell you from personal experience that there are some very diabolical people out there that only care about a person as a conquest, and keep very important secrets to themselves knowing if you knew you would do the right thing and leave them before the marriage.  Makes great reasons for anullments.


This is exactly why I'm wary of internet relationships.  People can be anything they want in this situation.  Bonnie is a prime example of being mislead.  The other side is Scott Peterson.  I've known several marriages to end shortlly after the "I do's" for this very reason.  

I was told that in 6 months you should know whether you want to carry the relationship to the next level or end it.  It's a pretty good standard of measure.  

So, if I decide I like this person well enough to continue, how long should I date?


----------



## manu1959

Bonnie said:
			
		

> You would think so wouldn't you.  But I can tell you from personal experience that there are some very diabolical people out there that only care about a person as a conquest, and keep very important secrets to themselves knowing if you knew you would do the right thing and leave them before the marriage.  Makes great reasons for anullments.



my wife's starter husband was like that....all i can say is i am glad i kissed a lot of frogs and waited till i was 35 to get married and untill i was 38 to have kids


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> This is exactly why I'm wary of internet relationships.  People can be anything they want in this situation.  Bonnie is a prime example of being mislead.  The other side is Scott Peterson.  I've known several marriages to end shortlly after the "I do's" for this very reason.
> 
> I was told that in 6 months you should know whether you want to carry the relationship to the next level or end it.  It's a pretty good standard of measure.
> 
> So, if I decide I like this person well enough to continue, how long should I date?



There is a geat book called "Date or Soulmate" by Dr Neil Clark Warren  it's more than just pop psychology, very good quick read for anyone who might be having doubt about compatability.

And I should add that i dated that person for five years, I should have figured it out.  Thank God for anullments!!


----------



## dmp

I find Internet relationships - even those not romantic - to be more-often-than-not fairly safe...Couple of reasons:

1) People tend to be MORE honest and Open online...there are things I've said to people here I'd not say to people I see face-to-face...for better or worse.

2) It's easy for me to keep my Male SuperModel status hidden from the droves of women who'd otherwise be beating down my door.


----------



## manu1959

Joz said:
			
		

> This is exactly why I'm wary of internet relationships.  People can be anything they want in this situation.  Bonnie is a prime example of being mislead.



damn bonnie i am sorry to hear that ..... 

internet realtionships....you might as well randomly pick up a stanger on the street corner


----------



## Bonnie

manu1959 said:
			
		

> damn bonnie i am sorry to hear that .....
> 
> internet realtionships....you might as well randomly pick up a stanger on the street corner




LOL mine wasn't an internet relationship, I actually met him in a rock club, which is probably just as bad but we dated for five years prior to marrying.  He was extremely smart, sophisticated, kept his secrets very close to the vest, it happens.  I should have known better, maybe paid more attention to the little things??   Hind sight is always better.


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> I find Internet relationships - even those not romantic - to be more-often-than-not fairly safe...Couple of reasons:
> 1) People tend to be MORE honest and Open online...there are things I've said to people here I'd not say to people I see face-to-face...for better or worse.


I agree that you may be able to be more open & honest with a person not looking them square in the eye while saying the words your are.  But you need that 'connection' with a person.  You can even feel it over the web.  You just 'click' better with one person over another.  Still to run off & meet this person......time would have to pass.


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> LOL mine wasn't an internet relationship, I actually met him in a rock club, which is probably just as bad but we dated for five years prior to marrying.  He was extremely smart, sophisticated, kept his secrets very close to the vest, it happens.  I should have known better, maybe paid more attention to the little things??   Hind sight is always better.




How long were you married? Any of our business to ask?


----------



## manu1959

Bonnie said:
			
		

> LOL mine wasn't an internet relationship, I actually met him in a rock club, which is probably just as bad but we dated for five years prior to marrying.  He was extremely smart, sophisticated, kept his secrets very close to the vest, it happens.  I should have known better, maybe paid more attention to the little things??   Hind sight is always better.



sorry to hear that.....hopefully you will trade up!


----------



## Bonnie

-=d=- said:
			
		

> How long were you married? Any of our business to ask?



7 years, I was very young when I got married, I don't think I knew myself very well either, but I know one thing, if he had told me what I found out after years of marriage I would have run for the hills.  His problems rendered him incapable of having a happy normal marriage, but he wanted me to marry him so he kept it secret and so did his family which also bothers me a little.  Insert heads in sand makes all problems go away......Yeah right!


----------



## Bonnie

manu1959 said:
			
		

> sorry to hear that.....hopefully you will trade up!



Yeah before I give up my independance and autonomy again I will be sure and be sure this time.


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Yeah before I give up my independance and autonomy again I will be sure and be sure this time.



Inde-what? Autono-whozzit???

Are you just making up words now???

:


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Yeah before I give up my independance and autonomy again I will be sure and be sure this time.



I don't believe you have to totally chuck those out the window to get married


----------



## Bonnie

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I don't believe you have to totally chuck those out the window to get married



Of course not but right now Im in total independence mode, happier that way for now.  Who knows if mr wonderful comes along I would be willing to give up some of that but Im not rushing things either.


----------



## dmp

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Of course not but right now Im in total independence mode, happier that now for now.  Who knows if mr won*-=d=-*erful comes along I would be willing to give up some of that but Im not rushing things either.



why BONNIE!!! I'm sooooo FLATTERED!!!! 


 :funnyface  :funnyface  :funnyface  :funnyface  :funnyface  :funnyface 

hehe...just joshin with ya....


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> why BONNIE!!! I'm sooooo FLATTERED!!!!
> .


Give me a break.


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> Give me a break.



He's just getting punchy from work.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Give me a break.




Oh c'mon...it was clever..and I bet you giggled a LITTLE bit...and I bet bonnie only got a LITTLE nausiated...

:


----------



## Joz

-=d=- said:
			
		

> Oh c'mon...it was clever..and I bet you giggled a LITTLE bit...and I bet bonnie only got a LITTLE nausiated...


Yeah, I tho't it was _quite_ clever.  I just didn't want you to get the big-head.


----------



## dmp

Joz said:
			
		

> Yeah, I tho't it was _quite_ clever.  I just didn't want you to get the big-head.



pshaww...you know me better than that, I hope.



Just making a funny... 

 :funnyface


----------



## Joz

Bonnie said:
			
		

> ....we dated for five years prior to marrying.  He was extremely smart, sophisticated, kept his secrets very close to the vest......


I've been sitting here looking at this and it's really been bothering me.  Young or not, in the _5 years of dating_, you would think that someplace along the way this ass would have slipped up.  But he didn't.  Whatever his motives, what he did to Bonnie was _deliberate & calculated_.  It goes to show you to what extent someone this evil will go to get what it is they want, no matter the cost.  Twelve years of Bonnie's life.


----------



## Bonnie

Joz said:
			
		

> I've been sitting here looking at this and it's really been bothering me.  Young or not, in the _5 years of dating_, you would think that someplace along the way this ass would have slipped up.  But he didn't.  Whatever his motives, what he did to Bonnie was _deliberate & calculated_.  It goes to show you to what extent someone this evil will go to get what it is they want, no matter the cost.  Twelve years of Bonnie's life.



The good news Joz is that I still have my youth and sense of humor..... :tng:   Happily most men are not like that most are very sweet.  My parents are very happily married so that's the model I use.


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> The good news Joz is that I still have my youth and sense of humor..... :tng:   Happily most men are not like that most are very sweet.  My parents are very happily married so that's the model I use.




I keep tryig to click that Twelve Years of Bonnies' Life link but it doesn't work. :teeth:


----------



## 007

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Of course not but right now Im in total independence mode, happier that way for now.  Who knows if mr wonderful comes along I would be willing to give up some of that but Im not rushing things either.



"Independence mode"... yeah... I know what that's all about... especially after being single for the last 19 years.

Sure there's been girl friends, but I'm not settling down with anyone either, unless I know for sure it's for the rest of our lives, and that person is a hard one to find.


----------



## Bonnie

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I keep tryig to click that Twelve Years of Bonnies' Life link but it doesn't work. :teeth:




 


That was a good one though!! :teeth:


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> That was a good one though!! :teeth:




ty  guess I'll wait til the movie comes out


----------



## Bonnie

dilloduck said:
			
		

> ty  guess I'll wait til the movie comes out



Sorry to dissapoint but it'll most likely be a snoozer...


----------



## dilloduck

Bonnie said:
			
		

> Sorry to dissapoint but it'll most likely be a snoozer...



perfect for late night TV :teeth:


----------



## Joz

Joz said:
			
		

> 1)Are you flirtier with a woman who's dressed more provocatively?
> 2)What do you _really_ think of a woman who shows off her 'goods'?  Do you tag her more "easy"?
> 3)Does your wife dress seductively to go out?  Does she at home?  Is it important to you that she look her 'best' at home?  Does it affect your libido?



No man ever answered these questions.  I'm still curious.


----------



## Joz

Joz said:
			
		

> Mom4 brought up a book about the "language of love".  Different people need different kinds of love in varying degrees.
> 
> 1) So what if you're one who needs "physical touch".  How do you go about getting your needs met?  What happens when they aren't?
> 
> 2)And if you're a "gift" person, what kinds of gifts do you need?  Diamonds, flowers, a candy bar?  Is it just the act or does the gift really matter?
> 
> 3)And if you're a "quality time" person, how do you spend your time?


I'm a person who needs physical touch.  I'll touch, just in passing.  Even when I'm upset or pissed, I still do the touching thing.


----------



## ninja007




----------



## ninja007




----------



## Delta4Embassy

Joz said:


> I decided to start this thread because this seems to be a subject that keeps getting discussed throughout the board.  I also have been  PM'd about my "sex on demand" theory.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find that in  anything I've ever posted.  With that being said,
> 
> I still hold true to the fact that men need sex for their well being, both mentally & physically.  It is the mature man that realizes it's emotional for him  also; that's it's better with someone loved.
> Women need the emotional bond before having sex.  She needs to feel understood, appreciated, cared for, in order to express herself in this manner.  But women need it physically as well.
> 
> Sex is an integral part of a relationship.  Without it you cannot have a healthy, happy union.  Something is amiss if you donot want to share this,(on a regular basis) with your mate.
> Women withhold sex because a man won't help; or as a punishment.  Men won't help because the woman nags or complains.  The cycle has to be broken, someone has to make the first move, or nothing will ever change.  But each of us feel that if we "give in", we lose power.
> 
> There are reasons why someone doesn't want to have sex;  hormones, childhood abuse, things that need professional help.  But you will seek help if you truly love your mate, because you want them to be happy.
> Illness, stress, moods, kids, all affect libido.  But if one is in need, effort should be made by the partner to help.  That doesn't always mean intercourse.  There is oral & manual stimulation that can have the same pleasing results.   I donot believe a woman must drop her drawers the  minute a man walks in the door.  But I do believe an effort should be made by both partners to co-operate.
> Should you have sex if you don't feel like it?  I don't know.  Have I ever?  I was married for 21 years.....need I say more?  But, I also changed sheets in the middle of the night because a child vomited on them, pushed a car in the ice & snow, sopped up water off the bathroom floor because the toilet overflowed---none of which I wanted to do.
> 
> In the beginning of a relationship sex is exciting.  In fact, the _whole_ relationship is.  You want to touch the person, talk with them, plan with them.  After awhile the excitement wanes.  But in it's place is a deep, heartfelt, committed love; both emotionally & physically, that words cannot express.  I wish you each that love.




Men/Women don't need sex to maintain good health, just climaxes and orgasms respectively.  God made our arms able to reach everywhere on our bodies for a reason. Compared to masturbation, sex with another person is risky. Whereas masturbation's only good stuff as well as numerous physical as well as psychological benefits.


----------



## ninja007




----------



## auditor0007

dilloduck said:


> -=d=- said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's not 'basing' a relationship on sex...she's saying something like:
> 
> "the only difference between a lover and a friend is 'passion'.  If couples don't have passion, they may as well simply be roommates."
> 
> Sex and or intimacy is vital to a marriage relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just throwing in my 2 cents ---intimacy doesn't require anything physical to occur
Click to expand...


I disagree, unless you are over the age of 90.  Actually, I've told my gf that I fully expect to be having sex when I turn 100.


----------



## Mindful

It's the oxytocin, you know.


----------

