# The Oslo murderer



## Ravi

Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?

It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).

Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.

The guy is a fucking terrorist.

What the hell.


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## strollingbones

one will drive oneself crazy trying to understand evil.....simple as that...


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## Jos

He gave The reason for his killing spree, to promote his Ebook


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## alexa

Jos said:


> He gave The reason for his killing spree, to promote his Ebook



I am not sure there is anything very new in it but I have only read 29 of the 1587 pages.  He claims to have given a copy to his 7000 facebook friends.

and sad to say he is going to give what he believes is a reason tomorrow.


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## California Girl

Depends whether it's a discussion or a bunch of bullshit to accuse every Conservative of being a terrorist. In my experience of late on this board, the latter outweighs the former. 

People who use tragedies to accuse their political opponents of wrongdoing are mentally unstable individuals.


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## Flopper

Ravi said:


> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.


You are absolutely right.  I read the radical posts filled with hate, bigotry and propaganda and wonder if am reading the words of a future terrorist.  Message boards, blogs, Twitter, Facebook and other outlets for free expression serve a very important purpose.  They give an outlet for these lunatics to express themselves, to release a lot of emotions and hostility.  As long as they are at the keyboards they aren't killing people.


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## alexa

Flopper said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely right.  I read the radical posts filled with hate, bigotry and propaganda and wonder if am reading the words of a future terrorist.  Message boards, blogs, Twitter, Facebook and other outlets for free expression serve a very important purpose.  They give an outlet for these lunatics to express themselves, to release a lot of emotions and hostility.  As long as they are at the keyboards they aren't killing people.
Click to expand...


Flopper I have doubts on what you say.  I am not trying to be nasty just genuine.  This guy apparently spent 9 years preparing for this - that is the years from 23-32.  During this time he was using the internet a great deal - so much so that he sent 7000 copies of his book to his internet friends before he went off on his murderous business on Friday.  Now I have to imagine that he at least thought he would get their approval for what he did.  Certainly in his case, far from getting things off his chest, they seem to have fuelled it.

The Norwegian government were talking about this very thing today, that how somehow they have to find a way to find these people and reintegrate them.  They believe this could be possible because they engaged I think with neo Nazi's before and they changed. They are concerned other far righters may follow him in Europe.  They see it as a very serious problem which needs to be addressed.


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## xsited1

Ravi said:


> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.



I recommend that Homeland Security arrest anyone who posts anything that can be interpreted as terrorism.


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## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Depends whether it's a discussion or a bunch of bullshit to accuse every Conservative of being a terrorist. In my experience of late on this board, the latter outweighs the former.
> 
> *People who use tragedies to accuse their political opponents of wrongdoing are mentally unstable individuals.*


Isn't that what you just did?


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## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends whether it's a discussion or a bunch of bullshit to accuse every Conservative of being a terrorist. In my experience of late on this board, the latter outweighs the former.
> 
> *People who use tragedies to accuse their political opponents of wrongdoing are mentally unstable individuals.*
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that what you just did?
Click to expand...


No. It isn't.


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## Ravi

Flopper said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely right.  I read the radical posts filled with hate, bigotry and propaganda and wonder if am reading the words of a future terrorist.  Message boards, blogs, Twitter, Facebook and other outlets for free expression serve a very important purpose.  They give an outlet for these lunatics to express themselves, to release a lot of emotions and hostility.  As long as they are at the keyboards they aren't killing people.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. But they also seem to get like minded people into believing things simply because they are repeated over and over and over again.

I hate to see this kind of thing. Not sure what can be done about it but I think it is important to talk about.


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## AllieBaba

I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.

I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.

In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.

Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.


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## Ravi

alexa said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely right.  I read the radical posts filled with hate, bigotry and propaganda and wonder if am reading the words of a future terrorist.  Message boards, blogs, Twitter, Facebook and other outlets for free expression serve a very important purpose.  They give an outlet for these lunatics to express themselves, to release a lot of emotions and hostility.  As long as they are at the keyboards they aren't killing people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Flopper I have doubts on what you say.  I am not trying to be nasty just genuine.  This guy apparently spent 9 years preparing for this - that is the years from 23-32.  During this time he was using the internet a great deal - so much so that he sent 7000 copies of his book to his internet friends before he went off on his murderous business on Friday.  Now I have to imagine that he at least thought he would get their approval for what he did.  Certainly in his case, far from getting things off his chest, they seem to have fuelled it.
> 
> The Norwegian government were talking about this very thing today and how somehow they have to find a way to find these people and reintegrate them.  They believe this could be possible because they engaged I think with neo Nazi's before and they changed. They are concerned other far righters may follow him in Europe.  They see it as a very serious problem which needs to be addressed.
Click to expand...


I doubt his 7,000 internet friends are actually really friends but just people that agree with some of his views. More than likely the majority are horrified about what he did.


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## Ravi

AllieBaba said:


> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> 
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.


You can pretend that we don't have a lot of Islamophobics if you wish. You can also pretend that we don't have a lot of people convinced that the powers that be are marxist/commie/pinko/fascists.

I guess my point is this. There is too much demonization in politics and this guy is the result on the extreme end of all the hate that gets spewed.


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## California Girl

AllieBaba said:


> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> 
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.



There are whackos in the world. Most of them justify their desire to murder others by identifying with some political stance. Sometimes they will identify with the far left, sometimes with the far right. Regardless, all they are is sick whackjobs who deserve to be treated as such. 

Sadly, instead of that, some other sick individuals will delight in using these tragedies to justify their own hatred.


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## alexa

Ravi said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely right.  I read the radical posts filled with hate, bigotry and propaganda and wonder if am reading the words of a future terrorist.  Message boards, blogs, Twitter, Facebook and other outlets for free expression serve a very important purpose.  They give an outlet for these lunatics to express themselves, to release a lot of emotions and hostility.  As long as they are at the keyboards they aren't killing people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper I have doubts on what you say.  I am not trying to be nasty just genuine.  This guy apparently spent 9 years preparing for this - that is the years from 23-32.  During this time he was using the internet a great deal - so much so that he sent 7000 copies of his book to his internet friends before he went off on his murderous business on Friday.  Now I have to imagine that he at least thought he would get their approval for what he did.  Certainly in his case, far from getting things off his chest, they seem to have fuelled it.
> 
> The Norwegian government were talking about this very thing today and how somehow they have to find a way to find these people and reintegrate them.  They believe this could be possible because they engaged I think with neo Nazi's before and they changed. They are concerned other far righters may follow him in Europe.  They see it as a very serious problem which needs to be addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt his 7,000 internet friends are actually really friends but just people that agree with some of his views. More than likely the majority are horrified about what he did.
Click to expand...


I agree they won't be real friends just facebook ones.  I went over to Stormfront today and only one of the persons replying on the European thread did not feel what he had done was wrong.  Others I am afraid thought he should have gone and done it somewhere else. 

The point I was making was that I imagine he will have thought his internet 'friends' would be impressed and, that that, having all these appearing admirers will have helped him to keep this in his mind all those 9 years. I have heard his intention was to start revolutions.  One concern obviously would be if other people followed him.

Reading the first chapter of his book, which is all stuff I have heard before, but reading it, what came to my mind is that this in it's own way is  like radical Islam. It wants to go back to the past.  Granted it is only wanting to take us back to 1950 so we are not (yet?) talking of cruel and unjust punishments, but at the same time it is giving up all the things which I believe have improved our society enormously and what struck me was that I had heard all that before on Internet Forums. (which is not to say that if I continue reading I may not come to much worse things)

Hearing how this man worked, calmly and without feeling as he killed the young people, I would have to imagine he is a person without empathy, in other words a psychopath.  

I feel like you it is worth discussing and obviously there is an enormous amount more to come to the fore.


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## R.D.

Ravi said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> *
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs*? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.
> 
> 
> 
> You can pretend that we don't have a lot of Islamophobics if you wish. You can also pretend that we don't have a lot of people convinced that the powers that be are marxist/commie/pinko/fascists.
> 
> I guess my point is this. There is too much demonization in politics and this guy is the result on the extreme end of all the hate that gets spewed.
Click to expand...

Not really an answer.   

Being conviced there are marxist/commie/pinko/fascists doesn't create a murderer and is not hate.


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## California Girl

Ravi said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> 
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.
> 
> 
> 
> You can pretend that we don't have a lot of Islamophobics if you wish. You can also pretend that we don't have a lot of people convinced that the powers that be are marxist/commie/pinko/fascists.
> 
> I guess my point is this. There is too much demonization in politics and this guy is the result on the extreme end of all the hate that gets spewed.
Click to expand...


There are also a lot of people who 'hate' Christianity. And there are a lot on here who 'hate' the right wing. Does that make them terrorists or likely to go out and murder children? 

My point. There is extremism on both sides. That is not the responsibility of the left or the right... it is the individual. 

If you were a right winger, you would be defending against the stupid accusations of the left. 

This kind of ridiculous point scoring achieves nothing, other than to pander to the pathetic rantings of those who use tragedies for their childish games. Those people are sick freaks. They are the kind of people who taunt others on FaceBook or gang up against other kids in the playground. In short, they are what they despise the most.


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## Ravi

Let me try this again.

I do not think this guy is a conservative. Rather he is a "conservative" in other words, a pretender. I should just call him a CINO (conservative in name only) or a LINO (libertarian in name only).

He's an extremely nationalistic, anti-immigrant, xenophobic, Islamophobe from what I've read of his views. Heck, he even toyed with the idea, according to his manifesto, of teaming up with those he fears (Muslims) to rid the world of those he fears the most (multiculturist leftists). 

I don't think any REAL conservative or libertarian shares his views.

But I think it is important to revile the extreme nationalists. Because really, they are no different from the terrorists that pervert religion, or Stalinists, or Nazis. And there seem to be a lot of them lately.


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## California Girl

Ravi said:


> Let me try this again.
> 
> I do not think this guy is a conservative. Rather he is a "conservative" in other words, a pretender. I should just call him a CINO (conservative in name only) or a LINO (libertarian in name only).
> 
> He's an extremely nationalistic, anti-immigrant, xenophobic, Islamophobe from what I've read of his views. Heck, he even toyed with the idea, according to his manifesto, of teaming up with those he fears (Muslims) to rid the world of those he fears the most (multiculturist leftists).
> 
> I don't think any REAL conservative or libertarian shares his views.
> 
> But I think it is important to revile the extreme nationalists. Because really, they are no different from the terrorists that pervert religion, or Stalinists, or Nazis. And there seem to be a lot of them lately.



In order to really understand his (totally warped) beliefs, you would need to study what is the 'far right' in Europe. Certainly, there are groups in the US who would be very similar.... but it would not be the TEA Party..... or conservatives.... it would be the NeoNazi groups that everyone - left or right - despises.


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## Ravi

California Girl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me try this again.
> 
> I do not think this guy is a conservative. Rather he is a "conservative" in other words, a pretender. I should just call him a CINO (conservative in name only) or a LINO (libertarian in name only).
> 
> He's an extremely nationalistic, anti-immigrant, xenophobic, Islamophobe from what I've read of his views. Heck, he even toyed with the idea, according to his manifesto, of teaming up with those he fears (Muslims) to rid the world of those he fears the most (multiculturist leftists).
> 
> I don't think any REAL conservative or libertarian shares his views.
> 
> But I think it is important to revile the extreme nationalists. Because really, they are no different from the terrorists that pervert religion, or Stalinists, or Nazis. And there seem to be a lot of them lately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In order to really understand his (totally warped) beliefs, you would need to study what is the 'far right' in Europe. Certainly, there are groups in the US who would be very similar.... but it would not be the TEA Party..... or conservatives.... it would be the NeoNazi groups that everyone - left or right - despises.
Click to expand...


Yes, I realize that. He did try to start a Euro version of the teaparty, but of course that could be his perverted view of what the teaparty stands for....or some of them, anyway.


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## Flopper

If you Google terrorist profile and read a bit, you'll see that most terrorist are not nut cases.  Other than being sociopathic, they're fairy normal; at least normal enough that they aren't noticed by the police.  This is what makes them so dangerous.  Most don't have criminal records or if they do, it's for minor offenses. They literal can be the guy next door.


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## AllieBaba

Ravi said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> 
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.
> 
> 
> 
> You can pretend that we don't have a lot of Islamophobics if you wish. You can also pretend that we don't have a lot of people convinced that the powers that be are marxist/commie/pinko/fascists.
> 
> I guess my point is this. There is too much demonization in politics and this guy is the result on the extreme end of all the hate that gets spewed.
Click to expand...

 
So you started a thread demonizing the right.

Way to go, Rav!


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## AllieBaba

Flopper said:


> If you Google terrorist profile and read a bit, you'll see that most terrorist are not nut cases. Other than being sociopathic, they're fairy normal; at least normal enough that they aren't noticed by the police. This is what makes them so dangerous. Most don't have criminal records or if they do, it's for minor offenses. They literal can be the guy next door.


 
And if the guy next door happens to be Muslim, the chances of him being a terrorist multiply exponentially!


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## manifold

I guess Norway's universal healthcare doesn't cover mental health.

But whatcha gonna do?


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## California Girl

Ravi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me try this again.
> 
> I do not think this guy is a conservative. Rather he is a "conservative" in other words, a pretender. I should just call him a CINO (conservative in name only) or a LINO (libertarian in name only).
> 
> He's an extremely nationalistic, anti-immigrant, xenophobic, Islamophobe from what I've read of his views. Heck, he even toyed with the idea, according to his manifesto, of teaming up with those he fears (Muslims) to rid the world of those he fears the most (multiculturist leftists).
> 
> I don't think any REAL conservative or libertarian shares his views.
> 
> But I think it is important to revile the extreme nationalists. Because really, they are no different from the terrorists that pervert religion, or Stalinists, or Nazis. And there seem to be a lot of them lately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In order to really understand his (totally warped) beliefs, you would need to study what is the 'far right' in Europe. Certainly, there are groups in the US who would be very similar.... but it would not be the TEA Party..... or conservatives.... it would be the NeoNazi groups that everyone - left or right - despises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I realize that. He did try to start a Euro version of the teaparty, but of course that could be his perverted view of what the teaparty stands for....or some of them, anyway.
Click to expand...


He may have done. But had he done his research, he wouldn't have wasted his time. His views are not compatible to those of the TEA Party.


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## xsited1

Ravi said:


> Let me try this again.
> 
> I do not think this guy is a conservative. Rather he is a "conservative" in other words, a pretender. I should just call him a CINO (conservative in name only) or a LINO (libertarian in name only).
> 
> He's an extremely nationalistic, anti-immigrant, xenophobic, Islamophobe from what I've read of his views. Heck, he even toyed with the idea, according to his manifesto, of teaming up with those he fears (Muslims) to rid the world of those he fears the most (multiculturist leftists).
> 
> I don't think any REAL conservative or libertarian shares his views.
> 
> But I think it is important to revile the extreme nationalists. Because really, they are no different from the terrorists that pervert religion, or Stalinists, or Nazis. And there seem to be a lot of them lately.



I just noticed these murderers don't usually wear hats, except for this guy:


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## AllieBaba

Ravi said:


> Let me try this again.
> 
> I do not think this guy is a conservative. Rather he is a "conservative" in other words, a pretender. I should just call him a CINO (conservative in name only) or a LINO (libertarian in name only).
> 
> He's an extremely nationalistic, anti-immigrant, xenophobic, Islamophobe from what I've read of his views. Heck, he even toyed with the idea, according to his manifesto, of teaming up with those he fears (Muslims) to rid the world of those he fears the most (multiculturist leftists).
> 
> I don't think any REAL conservative or libertarian shares his views.
> 
> But I think it is important to revile the extreme nationalists. Because really, they are no different from the terrorists that pervert religion, or Stalinists, or Nazis. And there seem to be a lot of them lately.


 
Where? You keep saying that, and implying they're on this board. Who are they, and please quote them showing they share this guy's views.

BTW, he posted stuff lifted from the unabomber's manifesto as his own....the unabomber was a one-time Harvard professor who was anti-technology, anti-government.

Who does that remind you of?


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## AllieBaba

Does it disturb anybody else but me that two Islamic groups took credit for these killings...which apparently they were not responsible for...

And yet Ravi is boo hooing about "Islamaphobia". What complete claptrap. They want us to fear and hate them. We do it because it makes them happy.


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## Ravi

AllieBaba said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> 
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.
> 
> 
> 
> You can pretend that we don't have a lot of Islamophobics if you wish. You can also pretend that we don't have a lot of people convinced that the powers that be are marxist/commie/pinko/fascists.
> 
> I guess my point is this. There is too much demonization in politics and this guy is the result on the extreme end of all the hate that gets spewed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you started a thread demonizing the right.
> 
> Way to go, Rav!
Click to expand...


Sorry that you took it to mean you, Babble.


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## Ravi

AllieBaba said:


> Does it disturb anybody else but me that two Islamic groups took credit for these killings...which apparently they were not responsible for...
> 
> And yet Ravi is boo hooing about "Islamaphobia". What complete claptrap. They want us to fear and hate them. We do it because it makes them happy.


So in your opinion the Norweigian guy is an Islamist?

Oh, my.


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## AllieBaba

Uh, no....


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## AllieBaba

I said Islamists wanted to get credit for the killings....


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## CitizenPained

I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?

He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club. 

Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.

I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations. 

So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.


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## xsited1

AllieBaba said:


> I said Islamists wanted to get credit for the killings....



They may still be involved.  There's still a lot we don't know (or may never know).  There is a backlash in Europe against Islamization at this time.


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## AllieBaba

CitizenPained said:


> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.


 
I am SO FUCKING SICK of this relativist CRAP.

Islam has killed tens of millions more than the church has. It has conquered and subjugated untold numbers of people in dozens of countries.

It is NOT comparable to *Christianity*.

This is what the ignorami do...they assume that people who kill in the name of Islam are the same as people who kill for every other cause...but happen to be Christian.

IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, and the NUMBERS DON'T COMPARE.

Wake the fuck up. 

And quit using the deaths of children to pretend that middle of the road CHRISTIAN Americans are *just as  bad*. They aren't.


----------



## Flopper

AllieBaba said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you Google terrorist profile and read a bit, you'll see that most terrorist are not nut cases. Other than being sociopathic, they're fairy normal; at least normal enough that they aren't noticed by the police. This is what makes them so dangerous. Most don't have criminal records or if they do, it's for minor offenses. They literal can be the guy next door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if the guy next door happens to be Muslim, the chances of him being a terrorist multiply exponentially!
Click to expand...

Nope. 94% of the terrorist attacks in this country are not perpetration by Muslims.  There are actually more terrorist attacks perpetrated by Jews.  Outside the US, the stories the same. Muslims are not responsible for most terrorist attacks.  The media makes this hard to believe but it's true.


All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com


----------



## Zona

California Girl said:


> Depends whether it's a discussion or a bunch of bullshit to accuse every Conservative of being a terrorist. In my experience of late on this board, the latter outweighs the former.
> 
> People who use tragedies to accuse their political opponents of wrongdoing are mentally unstable individuals.



You mean like the Ft. Hood shooter?


----------



## AllieBaba

Flopper said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you Google terrorist profile and read a bit, you'll see that most terrorist are not nut cases. Other than being sociopathic, they're fairy normal; at least normal enough that they aren't noticed by the police. This is what makes them so dangerous. Most don't have criminal records or if they do, it's for minor offenses. They literal can be the guy next door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if the guy next door happens to be Muslim, the chances of him being a terrorist multiply exponentially!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope. 94% of the terrorist attacks in this country are not perpetration by Muslims. There are actually more terrorist attacks perpetrated by Jews. Outside the US, the stories the same. Muslims are not responsible for most terrorist attacks. The media makes this hard to believe but it's true.
> 
> 
> All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com
Click to expand...

 
compare the numbers of the dead, then get back to me.


----------



## Zona

Ravi said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it disturb anybody else but me that two Islamic groups took credit for these killings...which apparently they were not responsible for...
> 
> And yet Ravi is boo hooing about "Islamaphobia". What complete claptrap. They want us to fear and hate them. We do it because it makes them happy.
> 
> 
> 
> So in your opinion the Norweigian guy is an Islamist?
> 
> Oh, my.
Click to expand...


Nope, he was a right wing extremist christian nut.


----------



## AllieBaba

Riiight.

One of those damn anti-Nazis! You knew they were crazy!


----------



## Flopper

AllieBaba said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if the guy next door happens to be Muslim, the chances of him being a terrorist multiply exponentially!
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. 94% of the terrorist attacks in this country are not perpetration by Muslims. There are actually more terrorist attacks perpetrated by Jews. Outside the US, the stories the same. Muslims are not responsible for most terrorist attacks. The media makes this hard to believe but it's true.
> 
> 
> All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> compare the numbers of the dead, then get back to me.
Click to expand...

Your statement was about the likelihood of a person being a terrorist, not the number killed.  The number killed is not a very good measure of the extent of terrorist activity because the number killed is mostly a matter of chance.


----------



## Sallow

CitizenPained said:


> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with *Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. *or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.



What the heck?

Roman Catholics and Protestants are out of the Christianity club?

Because they weren't "chilling out" during WWII. They were shoving Jewish people into ovens.


----------



## R.D.

Flopper said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you Google terrorist profile and read a bit, you'll see that most terrorist are not nut cases. Other than being sociopathic, they're fairy normal; at least normal enough that they aren't noticed by the police. This is what makes them so dangerous. Most don't have criminal records or if they do, it's for minor offenses. They literal can be the guy next door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if the guy next door happens to be Muslim, the chances of him being a terrorist multiply exponentially!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope. 94% of the terrorist attacks in this country are not perpetration by Muslims.  There are actually more terrorist attacks perpetrated by Jews.  Outside the US, the stories the same. Muslims are not responsible for most terrorist attacks.  The media makes this hard to believe but it's true.
> 
> 
> All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com
Click to expand...


It is certainly true that not all Muslims are terrorists, however, sadly we say that the majority of terrorists in the world are Muslims -  Abd al-Rahman al-Rashid 

 Or at least they want to be


----------



## Flopper

AllieBaba said:


> Does it disturb anybody else but me that two Islamic groups took credit for these killings...which apparently they were not responsible for...
> 
> And yet Ravi is boo hooing about "Islamaphobia". What complete claptrap. They want us to fear and hate them. We do it because it makes them happy.


Two Islamic groups??  Do you realize there are over 1.5 billion Muslims.  That's about 1 in every 4 people in the world.  Within that group you will find every conceivable position on terrorism from outright terrorist to those that have dedicated their lives to fighting terrorism.  So no I'm not surprised.


----------



## Dr Grump

AllieBaba said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am SO FUCKING SICK of this relativist CRAP.
> 
> Islam has killed tens of millions more than the church has. It has conquered and subjugated untold numbers of people in dozens of countries.
> 
> It is NOT comparable to *Christianity*.
> 
> This is what the ignorami do...they assume that people who kill in the name of Islam are the same as people who kill for every other cause...but happen to be Christian.
> 
> IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, and the NUMBERS DON'T COMPARE.
> 
> Wake the fuck up.
> 
> And quit using the deaths of children to pretend that middle of the road CHRISTIAN Americans are *just as  bad*. They aren't.
Click to expand...


Fuck you're a moron....you really are.....


----------



## mal

Ravi said:


> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.



So why say it?...



peace...


----------



## jillian

mal said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why say it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...


because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons. 

the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...


----------



## rdean

AllieBaba said:


> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> 
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpb4nwfiaPY]&#x202a;Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer : "Don't feed the poor. They'll 'breed.'" FULL AUDIO&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

Republican Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer : "Don't feed the poor. They'll 'breed.'"

The GOP's tough stance on tornado aid: 'Heartless'?
Eric Cantor says he won't OK aid money for Missouri tornado victims unless Democrats agree to an equal amount of spending cuts. Goodbye, "compassionate conservatism"?

The GOP's tough stance on tornado aid: 'Heartless'?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kgnE1Xvec]&#x202a;Paul Ryan gets booed for supporting wealthy tax breaks&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

Arizona Transplant Patients Die After State Cuts Medical Insurance - ABC News

Two Dead Since Arizona Medicaid Program Slashed Transplant Coverage

They eliminated heart transplants for non-ischemic cardiomyopathy, lung transplants, pancreatic transplants, some bone marrow transplants, and liver transplants for patients infected with hepatitis C. Arizona also restricted coverage of prosthetics, eliminated podiatric services, preventive dental services, and wellness and physical exams for adult Medicaid enrollees.

----------------------------

How dare you accuse Liberals of being like the disgusting right wing.  Another damned dirty lie.


----------



## Tank

jillian said:


> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...


They believe  they get a bunch of virgins when they die.


----------



## Dr.House

jillian said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why say it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
Click to expand...


Lots of stuff push people over the edge...  Hell, that woman who cut off her husband's penis and shoved it into the garbage disposal certainly got pushed over the edge...

Wakkos are wakkos...


----------



## Flopper

jillian said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why say it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
Click to expand...

I think every situation is different.  Most successful terrorist attacks such as the one in Norway, 911, or the Oklahoma City bombing are carefully planned attacks.  These guys didn't suddenly go over the edge, they've been there for years.  Attacks such as the one that injured Gabrielle Giffords or the Muslim Army Doctor who shot a number of people on the base are in different class altogether.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

jillian said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why say it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
Click to expand...


Ravi was asked to name them and can not, can you? The two of you made a claim back it up.


----------



## elvis

Ravi said:


> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.



which views?  can you be more specific?


----------



## Dude111

They were not buying this fake "war on terror" and were going to pull out of Libya IN AUGUST so someone wanted to try to get them to believe it.....

Heres an excellent video on it..... ALL 5 POINTS SCREAM LOUDILY!! (Especially #5)

www.youtube.com/v/kXdtIsigOd8



			
				AllieBaba said:
			
		

> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.


Some say someone hacked into his FB account and added that in (That he was an extremist)


----------



## AllieBaba

Flopper said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. 94% of the terrorist attacks in this country are not perpetration by Muslims. There are actually more terrorist attacks perpetrated by Jews. Outside the US, the stories the same. Muslims are not responsible for most terrorist attacks. The media makes this hard to believe but it's true.
> 
> 
> All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> compare the numbers of the dead, then get back to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your statement was about the likelihood of a person being a terrorist, not the number killed. The number killed is not a very good measure of the extent of terrorist activity because the number killed is mostly a matter of chance.
Click to expand...

 
It doesn't matter. Your Muslim neighbor is more likely to be a terrorist than your Jewish neighbor, trust me.


----------



## CitizenPained

AllieBaba said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am SO FUCKING SICK of this relativist CRAP.
> 
> Islam has killed tens of millions more than the church has. It has conquered and subjugated untold numbers of people in dozens of countries.
> 
> It is NOT comparable to *Christianity*.
> 
> This is what the ignorami do...they assume that people who kill in the name of Islam are the same as people who kill for every other cause...but happen to be Christian.
> 
> IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, and the NUMBERS DON'T COMPARE.
> 
> Wake the fuck up.
> 
> And quit using the deaths of children to pretend that middle of the road CHRISTIAN Americans are *just as  bad*. They aren't.
Click to expand...


Calm the fuck down. I didn't say it was the _same_, but certain parts of the world's timeline, it is comparable. Seeing as how Islam and Christianity are the two biggest dominating world religions, I think it's worth mentioning. America has only been pleasant to all world religions since WWI-IIish.

Dreyfus Affair, anyone? 
Outlawing Mormon practices, eg, polygamy, on the basis that it was 'of non-civilized peoples'?
Indian ethnic cleansing?
Manifest Destiny?! 

hellooo? 

It isn't the same bloodshed, no, but like I said, _some other countries in this world haven't caught on to this democracy thing_.

chiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.

Plus I'd like a cite that says Islam has killed millions more than Christianity and overtook more people. That's not how I learned it. It wasn't _that_ long ago that Jews in Christian countries weren't citizens (Prussia, Germany, France), and the ones that were (like here) were still subjugated.

Muslim countries have _always_ dominated over their minorities, but 'radical Islam' as we know it today is a more recent explosion - or rather, a resurfacing of of something that was once a pastime.


----------



## CitizenPained

AllieBaba said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> compare the numbers of the dead, then get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement was about the likelihood of a person being a terrorist, not the number killed. The number killed is not a very good measure of the extent of terrorist activity because the number killed is mostly a matter of chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Your Muslim neighbor is more likely to be a terrorist than your Jewish neighbor, trust me.
Click to expand...


Flopper thinks that everything Israel does is a terrorist action, so his numbers are skewed.


----------



## CitizenPained

Sallow said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with *Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. *or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the heck?
> 
> Roman Catholics and Protestants are out of the Christianity club?
> 
> Because they weren't "chilling out" during WWII. They were shoving Jewish people into ovens.
Click to expand...


hence the 'or so', depending on location.


----------



## AllieBaba

CitizenPained said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am SO FUCKING SICK of this relativist CRAP.
> 
> Islam has killed tens of millions more than the church has. It has conquered and subjugated untold numbers of people in dozens of countries.
> 
> It is NOT comparable to *Christianity*.
> 
> This is what the ignorami do...they assume that people who kill in the name of Islam are the same as people who kill for every other cause...but happen to be Christian.
> 
> IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, and the NUMBERS DON'T COMPARE.
> 
> Wake the fuck up.
> 
> And quit using the deaths of children to pretend that middle of the road CHRISTIAN Americans are *just as bad*. They aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calm the fuck down. I didn't say it was the _same_, but certain parts of the world's timeline, it is comparable. Seeing as how Islam and Christianity are the two biggest dominating world religions, I think it's worth mentioning. America has only been pleasant to all world religions since WWI-IIish.
> 
> Dreyfus Affair, anyone?
> Outlawing Mormon practices, eg, polygamy, on the basis that it was 'of non-civilized peoples'?
> Indian ethnic cleansing?
> Manifest Destiny?!
> 
> hellooo?
> 
> It isn't the same bloodshed, no, but like I said, _some other countries in this world haven't caught on to this democracy thing_.
> 
> chiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
> 
> Plus I'd like a cite that says Islam has killed millions more than Christianity and overtook more people. That's not how I learned it. It wasn't _that_ long ago that Jews in Christian countries weren't citizens (Prussia, Germany, France), and the ones that were (like here) were still subjugated.
> 
> Muslim countries have _always_ dominated over their minorities, but 'radical Islam' as we know it today is a more recent explosion - or rather, a resurfacing of of something that was once a pastime.
Click to expand...

 
Don't tell me to chill, you little fucking dweeb. 

what the hell do mormons have to do with anything?

You have a little bit of information, you run with it, based on your own fantasies and the pap that was fed to you in grade school. Great.


----------



## AllieBaba

And I see you didn't reference  what I said about people killing in the name of Islam, and people who happen to be Christian killing NOT being the same thing...


----------



## AllieBaba

How Many People Have Been Killed By Muslims? | UNCOVERAGE.net

Be sure to click on the links that verify. Primarily wiki, lol.


----------



## AllieBaba

"
*80 MILLION HINDUS *
*Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the &#8220;funeral pyre of the Hindus.&#8221;\*

*I don't think *Christianity* has killed 80 million people since the advent of Christianity.*
*How Many People Have Been Killed By Muslims? | UNCOVERAGE.net*


----------



## CitizenPained

Yes, that has largely died down...save for some Christians in bfe Africa that like torturing dissidents. 

We (US) haven't killed in the name of God since Westward Expansion, and Europe...hmm...Wars of German Unification?

Any European historians out there? It's 1am.

I still think Christianity has slaughtered more than Islam.


----------



## CitizenPained

80 MILLION Hindus? Dayum.

Okay, relative to world's population then. There just weren't 80 million infidels nearby for Christians to slaughter.


----------



## Jos

AllieBaba said:


> Does it disturb anybody else but me that two Islamic groups took credit for these killings...which apparently they were not responsible for...
> 
> And yet Ravi is boo hooing about "Islamaphobia". What complete claptrap. They want us to fear and hate them. We do it because it makes them happy.



What disturbs me more is that someone says that a certain group have claimed responsibility, And YOU believe it


----------



## alexa

Maybe it would be good to try and keep to what we know.

He seems to have 'London Connections'. His book also says London after his name at the beginning, inferring a conection.

Muslims in London feel they may be under attack and mosques are being given special protection

His attitude 


> It reveals an obsession with the Crusades and a supposed threat to Christian Europe posed by Muslim immigrants and mainstream political leaders. Breivik predicts a European civil war will take place in three stages, ending in 2083 with the execution of "cultural Marxists" and the deportation of all Muslims.



Norway gunman claims a London connection and links to the EDL | World news | The Guardian

The execution it would appear will be of all liberal minded people, basically all those who do not share their view. Here a hint how he allowed himself to murder on Friday.  He already saw them as 'cultural marxist' traitors.  Cultural Marxists being basically people who believe in multiculturalism and equal rights.

the fear



> The Norway attacks have raised concerns copycat operations may take place in Europe. British Muslim leaders announced on Sunday increased security at mosques. Mohammed Shafiq, the leader of Ramadhan Foundation, one of Britain's largest Muslim groups, says mosques were being extra vigilant.
> 
> Shafiq said he was also discussing the need to take extra precautions with other European Muslim leaders, adding that he has spoken to the police about extra protection.
> 
> Concerns the UK remains vulnerable to such an attack were aired by the foreign secretary, William Hague, who warned that Britain's security forces may not be able to stop a Norway-style terror attack.
> 
> However, security experts said the events in Norway last Friday would refocus how far-right groups are dealt with.
> 
> Dr John Bew, director of the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation and Political Violence at King's College London, admitted there had been a lack of focus on far-right extremism, with research into Islamism often taking precedence. "We have looked at lone wolves in relation to Islamism but I think we haven't taken far-right extremism seriously enough."
> 
> James Brandon, research head at London's Quilliam thinktank, said: "The horrific events in Norway are a reminder that white far-right extremism is also a major and possibly growing threat."



Norway gunman expected to plead not guilty to terrorism charges in court | World news | The Guardian

According to the Guardian the Police are still trying to ascertain he  was the only person involved. Seems preparation time has gone down from the 9 years said yesterday to 18 months

This represents the areas where I have come again and again and again in the internet the same hatred 





> Online writings attributed to Mr Breivik suggest he believes Muslims are trying to "colonise" Western Europe and that he blames multiculturalism and "cultural Marxism" for permitting this.




BBC News - Profile: Norway attacks suspect Anders Behring Breivik

The cultural Marxism is an interesting one as I have come across it before particularly from a BNP member who mentioned that all the PC stuff came from the Frankfurt School which is indeed what he goes on to claim by in his ebook .


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Jillian and Ravi both claimed that certain posters here had made similar posts to this killer that they seemed to believe as he did and were a potential threat. Neither can or will name anyone on this board though. Usual tactics of the left make a vague reference to others in the community then go silent when pressed for examples or evidence.

Stand by your claim or withdraw them. Name names or admit you are just demonizing the right cause you are left of center.


----------



## Ravi

AllieBaba said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am SO FUCKING SICK of this relativist CRAP.
> 
> Islam has killed tens of millions more than the church has. It has conquered and subjugated untold numbers of people in dozens of countries.
> 
> It is NOT comparable to *Christianity*.
> 
> This is what the ignorami do...they assume that people who kill in the name of Islam are the same as people who kill for every other cause...but happen to be Christian.
> 
> IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, and the NUMBERS DON'T COMPARE.
> 
> Wake the fuck up.
> 
> *And quit using the deaths of children to pretend that middle of the road CHRISTIAN Americans are *just as  bad*. They aren't.*
Click to expand...

No one said that they were, Allie.


----------



## AllieBaba

See Citizen Pained posts.


----------



## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> Jillian and Ravi both claimed that certain posters here had made similar posts to this killer that they seemed to believe as he did and were a potential threat. Neither can or will name anyone on this board though. Usual tactics of the left make a vague reference to others in the community then go silent when pressed for examples or evidence.
> 
> Stand by your claim or withdraw them. Name names or admit you are just demonizing the right cause you are left of center.



Pale Rider


----------



## Ravi

Dr.House said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why say it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lots of stuff push people over the edge...  Hell, that woman who cut off her husband's penis and shoved it into the garbage disposal certainly got pushed over the edge...
> 
> Wakkos are wakkos...
Click to expand...


So they should just be dismissed as whackos, huh? I suppose we should also just dismiss whacko Muslims as well?


----------



## Ravi

elvis said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which views?  can you be more specific?
Click to expand...


Creeping sharia, marxist leaders, etc. Surely you aren't going to tell me you haven't seen these things discussed here?


----------



## Ravi

RetiredGySgt said:


> Jillian and Ravi both claimed that certain posters here had made similar posts to this killer that they seemed to believe as he did and were a potential threat. Neither can or will name anyone on this board though. Usual tactics of the left make a vague reference to others in the community then go silent when pressed for examples or evidence.
> 
> Stand by your claim or withdraw them. Name names or admit you are just demonizing the right cause you are left of center.


Another one that claims no one here goes on and on about marixists, lefties, muslims, etc. taking over the country.

And what about the few that called for revolution before the last election?


----------



## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jillian and Ravi both claimed that certain posters here had made similar posts to this killer that they seemed to believe as he did and were a potential threat. Neither can or will name anyone on this board though. Usual tactics of the left make a vague reference to others in the community then go silent when pressed for examples or evidence.
> 
> Stand by your claim or withdraw them. Name names or admit you are just demonizing the right cause you are left of center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pale Rider
Click to expand...

Thanks. I didn't really want to name names because he's not here to defend him self. He certainly isn't alone in his views.


----------



## Ravi

Here are two of them in action:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...e-liberals-guardians-of-evil.html#post3908891


----------



## del

AllieBaba said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> compare the numbers of the dead, then get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement was about the likelihood of a person being a terrorist, not the number killed. The number killed is not a very good measure of the extent of terrorist activity because the number killed is mostly a matter of chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Your Muslim neighbor is more likely to be a terrorist than your Jewish neighbor, *trust me.*
Click to expand...


----------



## California Girl

jillian said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why say it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
Click to expand...


And yet, the only person that I have seen on this site who has actually stated 'I hate' towards a group of people is a left winger.


----------



## del

California Girl said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why say it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, the only person that I have seen on this site who has actually stated 'I hate' towards a group of people is a left winger.
Click to expand...


please


----------



## alexa

Ravi said:


> Here are two of them in action:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...e-liberals-guardians-of-evil.html#post3908891



that link seemed to express classically what he discuses at the beginning of his book.

Here a WN tries to surmise his views



> - Cultural Conservatism (anti-multiculturalism)
> - Against Islamization
> - Anti-racist
> - Anti-authoritarian (resistance to all authoritarian ideologies of hate)
> - Pro-Israel/forsvarer of non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries
> - Defender of the cultural aspects of Christianity



http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t818918-4/#post9420599

He declares he has nothing to do with WN because he is anti-racist.


----------



## Douger

Norwegian mass-killer says he is a righteous


----------



## alexa

He is going to be in court soon.  The have sensibly decidedly not to let him speak live.


----------



## jillian

CitizenPained said:


> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.



We need to call people what they are. If this were a musllim, we would be referring to him as a terrorist. Whenever the perpetrator of an act of terrorism is a white, rightwing, christian, the right refuses to use that term. He is a terrorist... as was Timothy McVeigh and as was the loon who flew his plane into an IRS office building.


----------



## jillian

Tank said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
> 
> 
> 
> They believe  they get a bunch of virgins when they die.
Click to expand...


This one was one of yours, racist.


----------



## BoycottTheday

[opinion mode on]

I just read a post here which the poster wants to euthanize half the republican party.

No threat of terrorism there i guess because its Left on Right.

I also just read a thread about how hate crimes dont apply to whites.

The Unions on thier websites, front page stuff not on a forum chat,

 have been calling on their members to become "ungovernable"

because of the budget crises .

 Sounds like a threat of terrorism there tbh.


When the hate blows up in everyones face,

 let it be known it was the "Progressives" that encouraged it.

And wanted it,

 so they could rebuild a new existence from the ashes of what is left of the Western World.

[/opinion mode]


----------



## RetiredGySgt

jillian said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
> 
> 
> 
> They believe  they get a bunch of virgins when they die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This one was one of yours, racist.
Click to expand...


Still waiting, you claimed posters here were the same as the Oslo terrorist. Name them or withdraw the attack on what you called the right.


----------



## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> They believe  they get a bunch of virgins when they die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one was one of yours, racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still waiting, you claimed posters here were the same as the Oslo terrorist. Name them or withdraw the attack on what you called the right.
Click to expand...


PubliusInfinitum
Glockmail


----------



## mal

The Distinction here is that there are no Mainstream Christian Leaders who are Calling for these kinds of Terrorist Attacks...

Throw a Dart in the Middle East and you will Find Mainstream Islamic Leaders and Governments who are.



peace...


----------



## RetiredGySgt

mal said:


> The Distinction here is that there are no Mainstream Christian Leaders who are Calling for these kinds of Terrorist Attacks...
> 
> Throw a Dart in the Middle East and you will Find Mainstream Islamic Leaders and Governments who are.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...



That of course is different. Worldwide organized Muslim terror is compared to lone wolf nuts that happen to have some Christian beliefs. The left can not help attacking Christians.


----------



## Ravi

RetiredGySgt said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Distinction here is that there are no Mainstream Christian Leaders who are Calling for these kinds of Terrorist Attacks...
> 
> Throw a Dart in the Middle East and you will Find Mainstream Islamic Leaders and Governments who are.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That of course is different. Worldwide organized Muslim terror is compared to lone wolf nuts that happen to have some Christian beliefs. The left can not help attacking Christians.
Click to expand...

He didn't do it because he's Christian. He did it, apparently, because he is a xenophobic nationalistic fucktard.


----------



## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> This one was one of yours, racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting, you claimed posters here were the same as the Oslo terrorist. Name them or withdraw the attack on what you called the right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PubliusInfinitum
> Glockmail
Click to expand...


Looks like your answers don't count.


----------



## Article 15

Ravi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Distinction here is that there are no Mainstream Christian Leaders who are Calling for these kinds of Terrorist Attacks...
> 
> Throw a Dart in the Middle East and you will Find Mainstream Islamic Leaders and Governments who are.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That of course is different. Worldwide organized Muslim terror is compared to lone wolf nuts that happen to have some Christian beliefs. The left can not help attacking Christians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He didn't do it because he's Christian. He did it, apparently, because he is a xenophobic nationalistic fucktard.
Click to expand...


I think he killed because he's nutter and that his views were just a focus point or vehicle for his insanity.


----------



## mal

Ravi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Distinction here is that there are no Mainstream Christian Leaders who are Calling for these kinds of Terrorist Attacks...
> 
> Throw a Dart in the Middle East and you will Find Mainstream Islamic Leaders and Governments who are.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That of course is different. Worldwide organized Muslim terror is compared to lone wolf nuts that happen to have some Christian beliefs. The left can not help attacking Christians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He didn't do it because he's Christian. He did it, apparently, because he is a xenophobic nationalistic fucktard.
Click to expand...


Yet Christianity is being Discussed... His Possible Adoration of the Tea Party has made it into News Stories by the same "Free Press" Organizations who Refuse to pin almost ANY of the Worldwide Islamic Terror on Islam...

Islamic Governments Execute Homosexuals for being Homosexual while they Advocate for and Fund Terrorists around the World, yet the "Free Press" will go out of their way to say it's not about Islam if they mention Islam at all...

One of these Rightwing Christian Fucktards pops up, and somehow it IS a Discussion about Religion and it's Influence...

Influence?... It's Fucking LAW in Iran... In the Kingdom... Almost everywhere Islam is.

And Islamic Leaders in the ME Advocate for this Jihad on the West while the Western Liberal "Free Press" Apologizes for it or simply Refuses to Report on it...



peace...


----------



## mal

Let me Digress a bit...

This guy looks like someone from a Movie...

Or in the Bigger Script of this Life, the Powers that be have already used him for something else...

The first pic I saw of this shitbag I though, I've seen him in a Diehard movie or one of those Movies where the Terrorists are White Europeans, because we know how big those Cells are...

Anyway, Digressing done.



peace...


----------



## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> That of course is different. Worldwide organized Muslim terror is compared to lone wolf nuts that happen to have some Christian beliefs. The left can not help attacking Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't do it because he's Christian. He did it, apparently, because he is a xenophobic nationalistic fucktard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think he killed because he's nutter and that his views were just a focus point or vehicle for his insanity.
Click to expand...

So in reality, he's no different than Muslims that do the same thing.


----------



## Colin

RetiredGySgt said:


> Jillian and Ravi both claimed that certain posters here had made similar posts to this killer that they seemed to believe as he did and were a potential threat. Neither can or will name anyone on this board though. Usual tactics of the left make a vague reference to others in the community then go silent when pressed for examples or evidence.
> 
> Stand by your claim or withdraw them. Name names or admit you are just demonizing the right cause you are left of center.



Are you telling us that there are NO USMB members from either left or right who do not show themselves to have extreme ideas by making racist, homophobic, xenophobic or just plain hateful posts?  How does one say it...oh yeh...RETARD ALERT!

And having read both the posts you refer too, I see no sign of them saying anyone here was a potential threat. Now wipe the spittle of your screen and calm down gramps.


----------



## mal

Ravi said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't do it because he's Christian. He did it, apparently, because he is a xenophobic nationalistic fucktard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he killed because he's nutter and that his views were just a focus point or vehicle for his insanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So in reality, he's no different than Muslims that do the same thing.
Click to expand...


Name the Christian Country like Iran or Saudi Arabia that Executes Homosexuals, has Mainstream Religious Leaders who Advocate for Terrorism Against the West, and who not only Advocate for this crap, they Teach it to Children as a Matter of Law.

I'll be here.



peace...


----------



## Article 15

Ravi said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't do it because he's Christian. He did it, apparently, because he is a xenophobic nationalistic fucktard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he killed because he's nutter and that his views were just a focus point or vehicle for his insanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So in reality, he's no different than Muslims that do the same thing.
Click to expand...


I would agree that's he no different than a guy like say Hassan from Ft. Hood but I think the OBL types of the world are a different animal.


----------



## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he killed because he's nutter and that his views were just a focus point or vehicle for his insanity.
> 
> 
> 
> So in reality, he's no different than Muslims that do the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would agree that's he no different than a guy like say Hassan from Ft. Hood but I think the OBL types of the world are a different animal.
Click to expand...

How so? More organized, certainly. But where he uses nationalism they use Islam. Both pervert ideologies.


----------



## Article 15

Ravi said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in reality, he's no different than Muslims that do the same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree that's he no different than a guy like say Hassan from Ft. Hood but I think the OBL types of the world are a different animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so? More organized, certainly. But where he uses nationalism they use Islam. Both pervert ideologies.
Click to expand...


Agreed that they both pervert ideologies and in that regard they are alike.  But yes, I think organization is a difference.  To me, guys like Hassan and Anders were preprogrammed to explode one day.  The perverted ideology is what triggers it.  I see guys like OBL and the like as those who do the perverting of the ideology in order to feed on weaker minds and get THEM to die for the cause.  I think those people are much more aware or their actions and the consequences of them and therefor should be looked at differently than the lone wolf type.


----------



## Si modo

I don't care what his views were and are.  Anyone who does this sort of crap to get a point made is an animal.  My apologies to the animals.


----------



## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree that's he no different than a guy like say Hassan from Ft. Hood but I think the OBL types of the world are a different animal.
> 
> 
> 
> How so? More organized, certainly. But where he uses nationalism they use Islam. Both pervert ideologies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed that they both pervert ideologies and in that regard they are alike.  But yes, I think organization is a difference.  To me, guys like Hassan and Anders were preprogrammed to explode one day.  The perverted ideology is what triggers it.  I see guys like OBL and the like as those who do the perverting of the ideology in order to feed on weaker minds and get THEM to die for the cause.  I think those people are much more aware or their actions and the consequences of them and therefor should be looked at differently than the lone wolf type.
Click to expand...

Okay, I see what you're saying. Kind of like the difference between someone like Hitler and those he got to do his dirty work.


----------



## Article 15

Si modo said:


> I don't care what his views were and are.  Anyone who does this sort of crap to get a point made is an animal.  My apologies to the animals.



You not caring about what killer's views were....before we knew them:



Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This report says the site of the explosion was a tabloid newspaper.
> 
> 
> 
> AN explosion took place Friday local time in the building of Norway's biggest tabloid newspaper VG located near the government's headquarters in Oslo, local media reported.
> 
> 
> 
> Explosion at tabloid newspaper VG near Norwegian PM's office | Herald Sun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did they print cartoons?
Click to expand...


----------



## mal

mal said:


> Let me Digress a bit...
> 
> This guy looks like someone from a Movie...
> 
> Or in the Bigger Script of this Life, the Powers that be have already used him for something else...
> 
> The first pic I saw of this shitbag I though, I've seen him in a Diehard movie or one of those Movies where the Terrorists are White Europeans, because we know how big those Cells are...
> 
> Anyway, Digressing done.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...









WTF?...

I saw these all weekend on my Droid... I see the next Cooking Show Host or whatever...



peace...


----------



## mal

Si modo said:


> I don't care what his views were and are.  Anyone who does this sort of crap to get a point made is an animal.  My apologies to the animals.



How about Religious Leaders who Advocate for it and Nations who Support and Fund it?...



peace...


----------



## Article 15

Ravi said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so? More organized, certainly. But where he uses nationalism they use Islam. Both pervert ideologies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed that they both pervert ideologies and in that regard they are alike.  But yes, I think organization is a difference.  To me, guys like Hassan and Anders were preprogrammed to explode one day.  The perverted ideology is what triggers it.  I see guys like OBL and the like as those who do the perverting of the ideology in order to feed on weaker minds and get THEM to die for the cause.  I think those people are much more aware or their actions and the consequences of them and therefor should be looked at differently than the lone wolf type.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay, I see what you're saying. Kind of like the difference between someone like Hitler and those he got to do his dirty work.
Click to expand...


No, not exactly.  I think if you took some people who Hitler got to do his dirty work out of Germany before Hitler came to power and put them in the US they wouldn't have just started gassing Jews one day.  However, if you took Hassan from Ft. Hood and put him anywhere, or Anders from Norway and put him anywhere, their minds were going to cook up a reason for them to kill.  It was inevitable with them.


----------



## Article 15

mal said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me Digress a bit...
> 
> This guy looks like someone from a Movie...
> 
> Or in the Bigger Script of this Life, the Powers that be have already used him for something else...
> 
> The first pic I saw of this shitbag I though, I've seen him in a Diehard movie or one of those Movies where the Terrorists are White Europeans, because we know how big those Cells are...
> 
> Anyway, Digressing done.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF?...
> 
> I saw these all weekend on my Droid... I see the next Cooking Show Host or whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...


I see a guy trying to recover a lost Continuum Transfunctioner


----------



## Si modo

Article 15 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree that's he no different than a guy like say Hassan from Ft. Hood but I think the OBL types of the world are a different animal.
> 
> 
> 
> How so? More organized, certainly. But where he uses nationalism they use Islam. Both pervert ideologies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed that they both pervert ideologies and in that regard they are alike.  But yes, I think organization is a difference.  To me, guys like Hassan and Anders were preprogrammed to explode one day.  The perverted ideology is what triggers it.  I see guys like OBL and the like as those who do the perverting of the ideology in order to feed on weaker minds and get THEM to die for the cause.  I think those people are much more aware or their actions and the consequences of them and therefor should be looked at differently than the lone wolf type.
Click to expand...


----------



## Si modo

mal said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what his views were and are.  Anyone who does this sort of crap to get a point made is an animal.  My apologies to the animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about Religious Leaders who Advocate for it and Nations who Support and Fund it?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...

I think Article15 covers that succinctly.  They know what they are doing - they trigger the unstable to do the atrocity.  That makes them more subhuman, IMO because they are manipulating those vulnerabilities for mass murder and terrorism.


----------



## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed that they both pervert ideologies and in that regard they are alike.  But yes, I think organization is a difference.  To me, guys like Hassan and Anders were preprogrammed to explode one day.  The perverted ideology is what triggers it.  I see guys like OBL and the like as those who do the perverting of the ideology in order to feed on weaker minds and get THEM to die for the cause.  I think those people are much more aware or their actions and the consequences of them and therefor should be looked at differently than the lone wolf type.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I see what you're saying. Kind of like the difference between someone like Hitler and those he got to do his dirty work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, not exactly.  I think if you took some people who Hitler got to do his dirty work out of Germany before Hitler came to power and *put them in the US they wouldn't have just started gassing Jews one day. * However, if you took Hassan from Ft. Hood and put him anywhere, or Anders from Norway and put him anywhere, their minds were going to cook up a reason for them to kill.  It was inevitable with them.
Click to expand...


Except they had it in them to do it.


----------



## Article 15

Ravi said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I see what you're saying. Kind of like the difference between someone like Hitler and those he got to do his dirty work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not exactly.  I think if you took some people who Hitler got to do his dirty work out of Germany before Hitler came to power and *put them in the US they wouldn't have just started gassing Jews one day. * However, if you took Hassan from Ft. Hood and put him anywhere, or Anders from Norway and put him anywhere, their minds were going to cook up a reason for them to kill.  It was inevitable with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except they had it in them to do it.
Click to expand...


Agreed but that was a case of the entire fabric of a society turning rotten over a period of time through propaganda and fear.  Their entire culture was transformed with a gun to its head.  I don't see that as an inevitability if you take some of them out of that world like I do a killer with faulty wiring.


----------



## Ravi

True enough.


----------



## manifold

The Ravi School of Statistics Rule 1:  Correlation and causation may be concluded from a single data point, as long as it supports Ravi's confirmation bias and partisan agenda.  On the other hand, there is never enough data to conclude correlation or causation that conflicts with Ravi's agenda and confirmation bias.  The school motto - We don't work for stats, stats work for us!

True story


----------



## Ravi

manifold said:


> The Ravi School of Statistics Rule 1:  Correlation and causation may be concluded from a single data point, as long as it supports Ravi's confirmation bias and partisan agenda.  On the other hand, there is never enough data to conclude correlation or causation that conflicts with Ravi's agenda and confirmation bias.  The school motto - We don't work for stats, stats work for us!
> 
> True story


Except....I started this discussion with some questions and they got answered.

So, fail on your part.


----------



## alexa

He is claiming to belong to an organisation which has 2 other cells.

Apart from that he said basically that the Labor Party had gone against the culture of the people so needed  to start recruiting again and also roughly that any country which believes in allowing Muslims to immigrate like Norway should expect this.

He is being kept in solitary confinement and one of the reasons the trial was not made public was for fear he might in some disguised way send a message to others.  More investigations going on including into the supposed 2 more cells of the 'organisation'.


----------



## manifold

Ravi said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ravi School of Statistics Rule 1:  Correlation and causation may be concluded from a single data point, as long as it supports Ravi's confirmation bias and partisan agenda.  On the other hand, there is never enough data to conclude correlation or causation that conflicts with Ravi's agenda and confirmation bias.  The school motto - We don't work for stats, stats work for us!
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> Except....I started this discussion with some questions and they got answered.
> 
> So, fail on your part.
Click to expand...


Want a tissue?


----------



## Dr.House

Ravi said:


> Dr.House said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of stuff push people over the edge...  Hell, that woman who cut off her husband's penis and shoved it into the garbage disposal certainly got pushed over the edge...
> 
> Wakkos are wakkos...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they should just be dismissed as whackos, huh? I suppose we should also just dismiss whacko Muslims as well?
Click to expand...


I missed the word "dismissed" in my post....  Could you point it out?

Wakkos don't always wear a T-Shirt proclaiming their wakkoness (I mean, other than anyone wearing an 0bama shirt today...)  

Unless you have special fortune teller like powers, you won't always see the wakko for what s/he truly is...  Best thing you can do is pay attention to your neighbors and co-workers...


----------



## freedombecki

CitizenPained said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was mentally unstable. He sounds like the kind of man who'd be inspired by conspiracy theorists - you know, the kind of people who latch on to those crazy ideas as long as it meshes with their viewpoint?
> 
> He was a xenophobe, for sure, and I'm very sorry Norway had to join our club.
> 
> Extremism, be it from the left or right, always boils down to one thing: _us_ versus _them_, with _them_ being the enemy and all that is wrong with the world.
> 
> I don't think Islam has had this much of backlash since Queen Isabella, yet it still pales to what other religions/peoples have had to suffer. And like it or not, people have suffered under Islam and Christianity for centuries, what with Christianity finally chilling out in the 20th C. or so. Muslim countries just haven't followed suit in regards to how they treat their minority populations.
> 
> So I think this terrorist whackjob may have envisioned a problem much larger than what it was and it was amplified in his xenophobia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am SO FUCKING SICK of this relativist CRAP.
> 
> Islam has killed tens of millions more than the church has. It has conquered and subjugated untold numbers of people in dozens of countries.
> 
> It is NOT comparable to *Christianity*.
> 
> This is what the ignorami do...they assume that people who kill in the name of Islam are the same as people who kill for every other cause...but happen to be Christian.
> 
> IT'S NOT THE SAME THING, and the NUMBERS DON'T COMPARE.
> 
> Wake the fuck up.
> 
> And quit using the deaths of children to pretend that middle of the road CHRISTIAN Americans are *just as  bad*. They aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calm the fuck down. I didn't say it was the _same_, but certain parts of the world's timeline, it is comparable. Seeing as how Islam and Christianity are the two biggest dominating world religions, I think it's worth mentioning. America has only been pleasant to all world religions since WWI-IIish.
> 
> Dreyfus Affair, anyone?
> Outlawing Mormon practices, eg, polygamy, on the basis that it was 'of non-civilized peoples'?
> Indian ethnic cleansing?
> Manifest Destiny?!
> 
> hellooo?
> 
> It isn't the same bloodshed, no, but like I said, _some other countries in this world haven't caught on to this democracy thing_.
> 
> chiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
> 
> Plus I'd like a cite that says Islam has killed millions more than Christianity and overtook more people. That's not how I learned it.* It wasn't that long ago that Jews in Christian countries weren't citizens (Prussia, Germany, France), and the ones that were (like here) were still subjugated.*
> 
> Muslim countries have _always_ dominated over their minorities, but 'radical Islam' as we know it today is a more recent explosion - or rather, a resurfacing of of something that was once a pastime.
Click to expand...


Jews in America are not subjugated since the very beginning.

A very jewish Mr. Solomon funded the American Revolution. In reciprocity, the founders decided not to allow religious laws and feelings override the law. It's the *rule of law here*, and may the best man win. That's how America has been since General Washington kicked British butts outta here.


----------



## AllieBaba

This guy is rolling out not as primarily a fundamentalist Christian, or anything that looks like America's right wing.

He was essentially a neo-Nazi who saw the influx of Muslims in Norway as a threat to their culture and democracy. He also fostered hate towards jews and blacks...but was concerned with Islam at this time because Norway has had such a massive influx of them and it has become a primary cultural influence in a very short period of time.

But other people who are concerned about this viewed him as an extremist. This isn't the way the majority of people who are concerned about the encroachment of Islam in western society feel. I am concerned about Islam..but I have no problem with semitic peoples in general. I don't care if our country changes color to brown, white, yellow...or if the primary religion in the country changes from Christianity to Buddhism, Hindu, Jew....it's the political and physical oppression of Islam that is the problem.

But of course I would never advocate acts of terrorism, especially against our own people, wtf is up with that??? Where does this mentality come from? And why is it spreading? I'm sorry, but I honestly think it's the pervasive attitude that terrorism is ok in some cases (middle east) if people are intimidated enough by the *threat* of freedom and democracy. We have people on this site who regularly support the use of terrorism based  upon their view that it's reasonable retaliation against the west. Of course it makes sense that nuts are going to take that and run with it....

Anyway, check this out:

"
One day I had a friend request on Facebook from Anders Breivik. There wasn't anything odd about that: when I was a member of SD I was magnetically attractive to everyone who called himself a nationalist: both those for whom it was a game, and the real extremists. Those were, in fact, the people who drove me away from the party. A machine of hate propaganda pumped through my feed on Facebook. There were YouTube clips of massacre victims, demands that all the "fucking *******" should get out of the country, and far more horrible things."

Norway attacks: Breivik was my friend on Facebook. I've seen what fed his hatred | Camilla Ragfors | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


----------



## BoycottTheday

I was pondering this thought so here goes:

How would you feel if you found out the OBama administration gave this guy the weapons he
 used in order to try to discredit the "Right Wing" knowing he probably would use the weapons
 to kill?

Worse Than Gunwalker? State Dept. Allegedly Sold Guns to Zetas


----------



## alexa

AllieBaba said:


> This guy is rolling out not as primarily a fundamentalist Christian, or anything that looks like America's right wing.
> 
> He was essentially a neo-Nazi who saw the influx of Muslims in Norway as a threat to their culture and democracy. He also fostered hate towards jews and blacks...but was concerned with Islam at this time because Norway has had such a massive influx of them and it has become a primary cultural influence in a very short period of time.
> 
> But other people who are concerned about this viewed him as an extremist. This isn't the way the majority of people who are concerned about the encroachment of Islam in western society feel. I am concerned about Islam..but I have no problem with semitic peoples in general. I don't care if our country changes color to brown, white, yellow...or if the primary religion in the country changes from Christianity to Buddhism, Hindu, Jew....it's the political and physical oppression of Islam that is the problem.
> 
> But of course I would never advocate acts of terrorism, especially against our own people, wtf is up with that??? Where does this mentality come from? And why is it spreading? I'm sorry, but I honestly think it's the pervasive attitude that terrorism is ok in some cases (middle east) if people are intimidated enough by the *threat* of freedom and democracy. We have people on this site who regularly support the use of terrorism based  upon their view that it's reasonable retaliation against the west. Of course it makes sense that nuts are going to take that and run with it....
> 
> Anyway, check this out:
> 
> "
> One day I had a friend request on Facebook from Anders Breivik. There wasn't anything odd about that: when I was a member of SD I was magnetically attractive to everyone who called himself a nationalist: both those for whom it was a game, and the real extremists. Those were, in fact, the people who drove me away from the party. A machine of hate propaganda pumped through my feed on Facebook. There were YouTube clips of massacre victims, demands that all the "fucking *******" should get out of the country, and far more horrible things."
> 
> Norway attacks: Breivik was my friend on Facebook. I've seen what fed his hatred | Camilla Ragfors | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk



I have not heard anyone discussing him as a neo nazi 

from your own article



> I don't think that the hot-blooded nationalists who push this line in the name of the Sweden Democrats, on Facebook and elsewhere on the net, have understood the consequences. But Anders Breivik was one of them.
> -snip
> 
> *Everyone who is critical of aspects of our immigration policies must wake up and realise what their endless talk about dangers and hatred can lead to.** Even though no one wanted to fuel this terrible act in Norway, that's what they actually did. *And there are more people out there who are looking for reasons to justify their actions by being able to refer to what "others" have written, above all on the net.
> 
> There are two things we learned on Friday afternoon. One: extremists are found in all groups, and all are at least as dangerous. Two: hatred breeds hate. Never help to spread it unless you are ready to take the consequences. Did anyone &#8211; even you people who hate me for everything else, and belong to the far right &#8211; did anyone, even you, really want something this terrible to happen? Surely everyone can see this could never work to anyone's advantage.



Norway attacks: Breivik was my friend on Facebook. I've seen what fed his hatred | Camilla Ragfors | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

His point is about people being responsible on the web for the hate they promote.  AB's own manifesto contains work by Melanie Phillips, Daniel Pipes, Mark Styne. Are you suggesting they are neo nazi's?

I could not believe the sort of thing I started coming in contact with when I came on the web.  I have a hunch about what may have happened.

The BNP who were pretty neo nazi, turned around after 9/11.  Opportunism allowed them to go after Muslims instead of Jews and Blacks, whom their hatred towards was not giving much back in the form of votes.  Almost overnight they changed from being Jew hating anti zionist party to become what they used to refer to as the most pro Israeli party in the UK.  Off they went to the US in search of funds and seemed to meet up with anti Muslim pro Israelis who then started providing the funds and they started the ant Muslim rhetoric against Muslims in the UK, aided and abetted by Melanie Phillips articles,  who always just, only just, kept her distance.  I have been on forums where zealous pro Israelis have backed the BNP seemingly unaware that under their jumpers all the old timers had Hitler tattoos and the sort.

Then along comes the EDL, even worse as it proves to be just violence and football thugs.  But the EDL becomes ever more pro Israel on it's marches. Although they are understandably claiming no relationship he was clearly impressed by them

http://www.channel4.com/news/edl-in-full-control-of-breiviks-norwegian-cell

Now I believe that somewhere within this disgusting make up of hatred there seems to have been a coming together between some just Muslim haters who were also pro Israeli in the States and people who originally had a neo nazi mentality from Europe.

The message from your article is that we should all take care of our hate. We should all take care not to demonise any particular people.

Just as we should not believe every member of far right parties are the same as him, people should get their act together and stop blaming all Muslims for 9/11 ...or god alone knows where that eventually will go.


----------



## CitizenPained

mal said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he killed because he's nutter and that his views were just a focus point or vehicle for his insanity.
> 
> 
> 
> So in reality, he's no different than Muslims that do the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name the Christian Country like Iran or Saudi Arabia that Executes Homosexuals, has Mainstream Religious Leaders who Advocate for Terrorism Against the West, and who not only Advocate for this crap, they Teach it to Children as a Matter of Law.
> 
> I'll be here.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...


Uganda.

DING DING DING!! I get smart points!


----------



## AllieBaba

Uganda's erstwhile leader is a psychopath, and his policies are not Christian, but tribal.


----------



## strollingbones

o come on allie....we can speculate ..cant we?

i mean there was a whole bunch of speculators that said it was muslims etc

so let's speculate on this christians motives and how this reflects on all christians


which is doesnt


----------



## CitizenPained

It's a majority Christian state. No one is saying that Christianity advocates death (though early Nazarenes had no problem ushering the death of Hellenistic society and civilization). Just pointing out that people kill in the name of the Christian god, too.

Can't handle it? Find a tiny unpopular religion that exercises no control over any governmental force in the world and is completely in harmony with their local ruling government. Those are about the only ones that aren't guilty of bigotry or xenophobia at one point or another.

The only religion that I can think of that fits that description are the Druze - a Muslim sect -  who advocate being loyal to their government.


----------



## AllieBaba

Nobody said they didn't kill in the name of Christianity. 

Just said the numbers don't compare. And they don't. And a variety of different idealogies and groups who kill and are incidentally Christian is NOT the same as a worldwide movement, that is Islam, that kills in the name, specifically, of ISLAM.

The psychopath in Uganda says he's Christian, but he has been denounced by Christian leaders everywhere. We can't even get Sunni to denounce bin Laden. Do you see the difference, puppet?


----------



## strollingbones

come on allie....we all know christians are all about killing.....i am speculating here


----------



## CitizenPained

Clearly you don't know much about the politics of Bin Laden. He's not revered by Sunnis worldwide, and he's had some clashes. And Sunnism isn't without its own conflicts - there is much debate over the status of hadith. Look at what Iran was just a generation ago.











My friend's parents live in Saudi Arabia. They're very Western underneath all that garb.  

And Turkey is actually very liberal for a Muslim state. And it supports the war on terrorism. 

So don't lump everyone in the same group and make sweeping generalizations about billions of people. Xenophobia doesn't look good on anyone.


----------



## CitizenPained

AllieBaba said:


> We can't even get Sunni to denounce bin Laden. Do you see the difference, puppet?



Sunni is not a uniform movement any more than traditional Judaism is. 

I see no puppet. Just an ignorant internet hack who hates Muslims. Your attitude is not very Christian.


----------



## strollingbones

allie is talking about another poster...sunni...


damn allie...using psychopath  and sunni right next to each other?


----------



## AllieBaba

CitizenPained said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> We can't even get Sunni to denounce bin Laden. Do you see the difference, puppet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni is not a uniform movement any more than traditional Judaism is.
> 
> I see no puppet. Just an ignorant internet hack who hates Muslims. Your attitude is not very Christian.
Click to expand...

 
You're a troll.

What was your name before?


----------



## Dot Com

Reminds me of the right-wing, christian militia in Michigan that Nepolitano busted up last year


----------



## strollingbones

CitizenPained said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> We can't even get Sunni to denounce bin Laden. Do you see the difference, puppet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni is not a uniform movement any more than traditional Judaism is.
> 
> I see no puppet. Just an ignorant internet hack who hates Muslims. Your attitude is not very Christian.
Click to expand...


well shes got you there allie.....


----------



## AllieBaba

strollingbones said:


> allie is talking about another poster...sunni...
> 
> 
> damn allie...using psychopath and sunni right next to each other?


 
I know, what was I thinking...


----------



## strollingbones

on a serious note...he can only get 21 years

i am glad the deathcount has lowered


----------



## Ravi

strollingbones said:


> on a serious note...he can only get 21 years
> 
> i am glad the deathcount has lowered


Well, there was some talk that not everyone at the camp was a Norwegian citizen so perhaps some other jurisdiction will also be charging him with murder.


----------



## AllieBaba

What's unChristian about standing against a movement that is violent and oppressive?

I don't see a problem.

My language, however, that's a problem from a Christian standpoint. I'll own that.


----------



## mal

CitizenPained said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So in reality, he's no different than Muslims that do the same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Name the Christian Country like Iran or Saudi Arabia that Executes Homosexuals, has Mainstream Religious Leaders who Advocate for Terrorism Against the West, and who not only Advocate for this crap, they Teach it to Children as a Matter of Law.
> 
> I'll be here.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uganda.
> 
> DING DING DING!! I get smart points!
Click to expand...


_According to human rights organisations, about 500,000 homosexuals live in Uganda out of a total population of 31 million.[3] Existing laws criminalise homosexual behavior with prison sentences lasting up to 14 years. These laws are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed unnatural sex among local Ugandan people.[4][5] Although many societies in Africa and elsewhere view homosexuality as a decadent practice imported by outsiders, it existed before European colonisation, often varying in practice depending on individual cultures. In some, male homosexuality was age-stratified, similar to ancient Sparta and Athens where warriors purchased boys as brides, common when women were not available, or manifested as fleeting encounters as in prostitution.[6]_

Do the Muslim Countries in Africa Execute Homosexuals?...



peace...


----------



## AllieBaba

The whole situation in Uganda is tribal, NOT Christian. The tribal whackjob who is in power has decided he's Christian now, but he's crazy and his whole viewpoint is based upon TRIBAL tradition, not Christian tradition.


----------



## mal

AllieBaba said:


> The whole situation in Uganda is tribal, NOT Christian. The tribal whackjob who is in power has decided he's Christian now, but he's crazy and his whole viewpoint is based upon TRIBAL tradition, not Christian tradition.



Of course... But don't tell a Liberal that. 



peace...


----------



## Flopper

AllieBaba said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> compare the numbers of the dead, then get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement was about the likelihood of a person being a terrorist, not the number killed. The number killed is not a very good measure of the extent of terrorist activity because the number killed is mostly a matter of chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Your Muslim neighbor is more likely to be a terrorist than your Jewish neighbor, trust me.
Click to expand...

The facts speak for themselves. Only 6% of the terrorist attacks in the US have been carried out by Muslim extremist.  These statistics  support the conclusion that although Muslim extremest are responsible for the most devastating attacks, their activities are not pervasive.


----------



## jillian

RetiredGySgt said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> They believe  they get a bunch of virgins when they die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one was one of yours, racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still waiting, you claimed posters here were the same as the Oslo terrorist. Name them or withdraw the attack on what you called the right.
Click to expand...


i don't really care what you're waiting for.

who are you again?


----------



## BoycottTheday

I doubt im going out on a limb to post Jesus wouldnt call that nut one of the faithful.


----------



## AllieBaba

Flopper said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement was about the likelihood of a person being a terrorist, not the number killed. The number killed is not a very good measure of the extent of terrorist activity because the number killed is mostly a matter of chance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Your Muslim neighbor is more likely to be a terrorist than your Jewish neighbor, trust me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The facts speak for themselves. Only 6% of the terrorist attacks in the US have been carried out by Muslim extremist. These statistics support the conclusion that although Muslim extremest are responsible for the most devastating attacks, their activities are not pervasive.
Click to expand...

 
Tell that to the people facing extinction in Somalia. A great example of what happens when you let Islam get a foothold.

Or France.

You're leaving those people out.


----------



## Tank

jillian said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> because there are posters here that sound like the same type of extremist loons.
> 
> the question then becomes what pushes people over the edge...
> 
> 
> 
> They believe  they get a bunch of virgins when they die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This one was one of yours, racist.
Click to expand...

Ya, he joins the long list of Norwegian terrorists.


----------



## CitizenPained

AllieBaba said:


> The whole situation in Uganda is tribal, NOT Christian. The tribal whackjob who is in power has decided he's Christian now, but he's crazy and his whole viewpoint is based upon TRIBAL tradition, not Christian tradition.



Is this a bad time to remind her that Christianity was once a tribal religion?

Christian tradition has largely changed, but people fought in the name of God the Father not _that_ long ago. And what we know as 'extremist' Christianity was alive and well through much of Europe until fairly recent times. Stop acting as though it was something done in medieval times. It's just history. It shows your religion is a powerful one. Is that a bad thing?


----------



## mal

CitizenPained said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole situation in Uganda is tribal, NOT Christian. The tribal whackjob who is in power has decided he's Christian now, but he's crazy and his whole viewpoint is based upon TRIBAL tradition, not Christian tradition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a bad time to remind her that Christianity was once a tribal religion?
> 
> Christian tradition has largely changed, but people fought in the name of God the Father not _that_ long ago. And what we know as 'extremist' Christianity was alive and well through much of Europe until fairly recent times. Stop acting as though it was something done in medieval times. It's just history. It shows your religion is a powerful one. Is that a bad thing?
Click to expand...


Once Islam has seen a Reformation, ALL of Humanity will be better for it. 

So, who are you?...

You aren't New, regardless of your Sign-up Date...

Where you from?...



peace...


----------



## emilynghiem

Dear AllieBaba: thank you for trying to be fair. speaking as a progressive liberal Constitutionalist who works within the Democratic Party, I can tell you there is hypocrisy and corruption, willingness to sell out principle for party politics and political gain.

As for conservative Christians, the things I will cite that remind me of the hypocrisy
with this shooting
A. when I ask my Republican friends about holding gun owners to the Constitution, they shirk. They also hesitate at the idea of holding Corporations to the Constitution while they are invoking rights underneath the same laws! This open the door to abuses without adequate check; you are right to point out this hypocrisy with liberal pro-choice who want the choice of abortion but fail to take responsibility for the consequences while blaming the right for the same. there is a similar issue with conservatives not wanting any legislation or regulation at all of guns by government because it crosses a line with them.

B. Also Herman Cain was willing to compromise Constitutional equality by supporting the legal banning of mosques; again I believe the solution woudl be to hold religious organizations to uphold the same Constitutional protections as government to ensure no people are abused by how laws are enforced, including religious policies. Other groups should equally benefit from such a standard beign enforced across all organizations, including profit corporations as well as religious institutions that otherwise run a risk of abusing authority or policies to violate rights or due process of individuals. Cult or religious abuse as well as legal and judicial abuse could be prevented by requiring uniform standards of civil due process and protection for any organization registered under the state.

I believe Constitutionalists from any and all parties will eventually come to an agreement on how to enforce laws consistently, REGARDLESS of our political beliefs on each issue.

But in the meantime there is hypocrisy on all side.

Thanks again for pointing out it is equally on the Left.



AllieBaba said:


> I don't see anything about this guy that even remotely reminds me of the right wingers on this board.
> 
> I see more people from the left who state their comfort with the idea of killing children, reducing population, withholding assistance from those who need it outside of the US, and oppressing people based upon their color and religion than I see people on the right doing the same thing.
> 
> In fact, kindly share exactly who exactly mirrors this guys. Specifics please. Exactly what have they said, and how does it line up with his beliefs? Links please.
> 
> Otherwise I'll just assume it's more revolting fear mongering and lying.


----------



## alexa

mal said:


> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole situation in Uganda is tribal, NOT Christian. The tribal whackjob who is in power has decided he's Christian now, but he's crazy and his whole viewpoint is based upon TRIBAL tradition, not Christian tradition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a bad time to remind her that Christianity was once a tribal religion?
> 
> Christian tradition has largely changed, but people fought in the name of God the Father not _that_ long ago. And what we know as 'extremist' Christianity was alive and well through much of Europe until fairly recent times. Stop acting as though it was something done in medieval times. It's just history. It shows your religion is a powerful one. Is that a bad thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once Islam has seen a Reformation, ALL of Humanity will be better for it.
> *
> So, who are you?...
> 
> You aren't New, regardless of your Sign-up Date...*
> 
> Where you from?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...


Interesting point.  

She is certainly an extremely experienced forum user.  That occurred to me very early on ...but what would make you feel that she was experienced in this particular forum?


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## Quantum Windbag

Ravi said:


> Are we allowed to discuss his motivations yet?
> 
> It seems obvious from his writings that he sees himself as some kind of martyr advocating for a revolution against his country because of his Islamophobic views. (Even though the population of Norway is only 3% Muslim).
> 
> Many of his views are similar to views of posters here and I find that disturbing. Not that I think anyone here would go on a murderous rampage and kill innocent people, especially children.
> 
> The guy is a fucking terrorist.
> 
> What the hell.



Seriously, do you know how to think?

His views are not at all similar to anyone I have seen posting here. He believes that devout Muslims should be able to run their own countries exactly the way they want to, including killing women who look at men. Can you point to a single of the anti Islam crowd here, including myself, who has ever come close to saying anything like that? I think that, upon reflection, you will see that most of the anti Islam crowd here advocate blowing them off the face of the planet. I will also bet that, upon reflection, you will realize that none of us advocate gong out and killing non Muslims to make our point.

If, that is, you are capable of both honesty and reflection.

Or either one.


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## alexa

This story still has a way to go



> On Friday, Mr Breivik's lawyer, Geir Lippestad, told Aftenposten newspaper that his client had harboured "several projects of different scale for that Friday".
> 
> "Things happened that day, which I don't want to go into, which meant events unfolded differently from what he had planned," he added.



BBC News - Norway attacks: Breivik 'had other targets'


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