# Senator McCarthy: Too Soon Forgotten



## PoliticalChic (Feb 18, 2013)

One can hardly claim to be a Liberal, Progressive, Democrat, Obama-voter, and not be  prepared to rage and foam at the mouth at the mention of the American hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy.
But I'll bet that much of this post was never known...or too soon forgotten by the aforementioned folks.



1. "John Kennedy's views, on communism and the Soviet threat, were not so different from McCarthy's. Although a loyal Democrat, Kennedy had also bashed the Truman administration for its dismal China record. One night in February 1952 he heard a speaker at Harvard's Spree Club denounce McCarthy in the same breath as Alger Hiss. Kennedy shot back, *"How dare you couple the name of a great American patriot *with that of a traitor!" 

Later he would back the Communist Control Act, a measure that went far beyond anything McCarthy had ever proposed, by virtually outlawing the Communist Party in the United States. During the debate on McCarthy's censure in 1954, while most Democrats lined up against him Kennedy warned that censure might have serious repercussions for "the social fabric of this country." And when the actual censure vote came, John Kennedy carefully contrived to be in the hospital for a back operation, so that he would not have to cast a vote against a man who was wildly popular with not only his father but his Irish and Italian constituents.

2. A better comparison is not with John Kennedy (or even Richard Nixon, whom he resembled in certain other ways), but with *another Senate colleague, Lyndon Baines Johnson. It was Johnson who arranged for the Senate to censure McCarthy in December 1954, *the move that effectively ended McCarthy's career.Less than a decade after Joe McCarthy had been interred in St. Mary's cemetery, *Lyndon Johnson would learn what it was like to be the target of hostile liberals and an unsympathetic national press. *People would regularly attack him as a murderer, a tyrant, and a psychopath, and compare him to Hitler, much as they had McCarthy.







3. Then there was about *J. William Fulbright, Democratic senator,* chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and nearly secretary of state under Kennedy. He and Joe McCarthy were long-standing adversaries.*And liberal though he was on most matters, on the matter of race Fulbright was a stalwart segregationist and an ardent opponent of civil rights for black Americans. McCarthy took the opposite view. His position on race and ethnicity was recognizably "liberal" *in a fifties sense and even in a later sense (associates recalled him campaigning as vigorously in black neighborhoods in Milwaukee and other Wisconsin cities as in white ones), *Fulbright the liberal segregationist versus McCarthy the color-blind Republican --* a strange juxtaposition, but perhaps not so strange. *Most Republicans in the fifties, including Taftites, were aware that theirs was the party of Lincoln and Reconstruction, while Fulbright had learned to support his fellow Southern Democrats on Jim Crow *in order to consolidate his position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.


4. Fulbright himself nourished secret doubts about whether the United States could really resist what seemed to him an inevitable tide of historical decline, of which the rise of communism was only one part. Those doubts about America's ability to fulfill its self-imposed global mission would eventually spill over into his opposition to the Vietnam War, and filled the pages of his book on American foreign policy, The Arrogance of Power. Both McCarthy and Fulbright agreed that the fate of civilization hung in the balance in the cold war. *McCarthy believed that in the end, it and America would survive; Fulbright, in his own sardonic, cynical way, did not*.





5. *We need to remember that during the entire period, from 1947 to 1958, no American citizens were interrogated without benefit of legal counsel, none was arrested or detained without due judicial process, and no one went to jail without trial.* As George Kennan, no admirer of the investigations, stated, "Whoever could get his case before a court was generally assured of meeting there with a level of justice no smaller than at any time in recent American history." All through the "worst" of the McCarthy period, the Communist Party itself was never outlawed, membership in the party was never declared a crime, and it continued to maintain public offices, publish books and the Daily Worker, and recruit new members (admittedly a tough sell by then).

a. In fact, most of what people ordinarily mean when they talk about the "red scare"  the House Un-American Activities Committee; anti-Communist probes into Hollywood, labor unions, and America's schools and universities; the Rosenberg trial; blacklisting in the media and schoolteachers fired for disloyalty * had nothing to do with McCarthy *and he had nothing to do with them...






6.  contrast all this with the three and a half million people who, according to the KGB's own official numbers, were arrested and sent to the gulag during the six years of Stalin's Great Terror, from 1935 to 1941. None had the benefit of any genuine legal protection; Stalin's secret police seized, interrogated, and sentenced the lot. The KGB states that of that number, 681,692 were executed in 1937-1938 alone. Taken with the four or five million people who died in Stalin's Great Famine of 1932-1933, the total number of human beings executed, exiled, imprisoned, or starved to death in those years comes to ten to eleven million. These are official KGB numbers released at the end of the cold war. They are almost certainly low.

*And during all the years when this was taking place, men and women like *Trumbo, Robeson, and Hellman *insisted that Stalin was the just and compassionate father of his people, asserted that Soviet citizens enjoyed a freedom and happiness unknown in American society, and celebrated the Soviet Union as the model society for the future. *Others, such as Julius Rosenberg, Alger Hiss, Judith Coplon, Martin Sobell, and Steve Nelson, willingly served the Stalinist regime, as other espionage agents or as part of the Communist underground apparatus."
Joseph McCarthy
Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator 
By ARTHUR HERMAN
Joseph McCarthy


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## JoeB131 (Feb 19, 2013)

McCarthy became to a degree the scapegoat for the most shameful witch hunt in American History, but giving that he relished his role in that witch hunt, it is hard to feel sorry for him. 

The point is, the blacklist was a tragedy because these people had broken no laws.  They just held an unpopular political view.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> McCarthy became to a degree the scapegoat for the most shameful witch hunt in American History, but giving that he relished his role in that witch hunt, it is hard to feel sorry for him.
> 
> The point is, the blacklist was a tragedy because these people had broken no laws.  They just held an unpopular political view.



"....just held an unpopular political view."

Did you miss this, Joey?

"And during all the years when this was taking place, men and women like Trumbo, Robeson, and Hellman insisted that Stalin was the just and compassionate father of his people, asserted that Soviet citizens enjoyed a freedom and happiness unknown in American society, and celebrated the Soviet Union as the model society for the future. Others, such as Julius Rosenberg, Alger Hiss, Judith Coplon, Martin Sobell, and Steve Nelson, willingly served the Stalinist regime, as other espionage agents or as part of the Communist underground apparatus."


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## rightwinger (Feb 19, 2013)

PC defends Joe McCarthy

Begin Leftist outrage here as PC giggles


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## Truthmatters (Feb 19, 2013)

think of what she teaches the kids she teaches

very very sad


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## iolo (Feb 19, 2013)

McCarthy destroyed America, leaving brainwashed conformists to obey their masters.   That's why living standards have ceased to improve and why you have more people in prison than any other country on earth.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 19, 2013)

a nutter


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> PC defends Joe McCarthy
> 
> Begin Leftist outrage here as PC giggles




Imagine how different you'd appear if you could break free of the dogma, and uncongeal those thought processes.....

...a useful beginning would be to find any thing in error in the OP.

Assuming, of course, that there were any errors....


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Truthmatters said:


> a nutter



Imagine how different you'd appear if you could break free of the dogma, and uncongeal those thought processes.....

...a useful beginning would be to find any thing in error in the OP.

Assuming, of course, that there were any errors....


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

iolo said:


> McCarthy destroyed America, leaving brainwashed conformists to obey their masters.   That's why living standards have ceased to improve and why you have more people in prison than any other country on earth.





Although it is early in the day....this must leap forward, taking a multi-length lead, in the race to be* the most stupid and uninformed post of the day.*

Allow me to shred what you must have written while in a coma:


1. "McCarthy destroyed America,..."

If teenager's hyperbole is your attempt, you should have focused on the *fascism* of the first Progressive President, *Woodrow Wilson, *under whom America:

a. Had the worlds first modern propaganda ministry
b. Political prisoners by the thousands were harassed, beaten, spied upon and thrown in jail for simply expressing private opinions. 
c. The national leader accused foreigners and immigrants of injecting treasonous poison into the  American bloodstream
d.	Newspapers and magazines were closed for criticizing the government
e. Almost 100,000 government propaganda agents were sent out to whip up support for the regime and the war
f. College professors imposed loyalty oaths on their colleagues 
g. Nearly a quarter million goons were given legal authority to beat and intimidate slackers and dissenters
h. Leading artists and writers dedicated their work to proselytizing for the government.
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Classical_Liberalism_vs_Modern_Liberal_Conservatism.pdf p. 9


And:
"...That's why living standards have ceased to improve..."

*Au contraire, dim-wit:*

1.	 By 2001, the Census Bureau was reporting that *the poor enjoyed as much or more *of the indicia of comfortable modern standard of living as the middle class of thirty years before! As many or more cars, trucks, clothes dryers, and refrigerators in 2001 as the middle class in 1971!  
Reynolds, Income and Wealth, p. 67.

a.	And twice as many air conditioners, and color TVs and much more of such modern advances as microwaves, DVDs, VCRs, computers, and cell phones. Ibid.
b.	And, improvements in quality or capability of anything is not reflected in the price or value of a product or service. In fact, the improvements are usually accompanied by a decrease in the market price, the universal measure of consumption!
c.	As an example, Moores Law, computer power doubles every 18 months. And take a look at the advances in cell phones.

2.	Lets be clear: the broadest and *most accurate measure of living standard is real per capita consumption. That measure soared by 74% from 1980 to 2004. *The Equality Of Reaganomics - Forbes
http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb...ce=N&AllYearsChk=YES&Update=Update&JavaBox=no

a.	A study of table 7.1 would show that between 1973 and 2004,* it doubled*. And between 1929 and 2004, real per capita consumption by American workers increased five fold. *The fastest growth periods* were 1983-1990 and 1992-2004, known as *the Reagan boom.*

b.	For those who insist that wealth has fallen, this in a discussion of the recession: The decline in home prices and stock portfolios in 2008 wiped out gains in net worth from the previous three years, the Fed said. Median household net worth *increased 17.7 percent *between 2004 and 2007, but fell 3.2 percent from 2004 through last October, according to the Federal Reserve's Survey of Consumer Finances. Average American Net Worth Drops 23% - CBS News

c.Today, the country has gone a long way toward an appearance of classlessness. *Americans of all sorts are awash in luxuries* that would have dazzled their grandparents. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/national/class/OVERVIEW-FINAL.html?pagewanted=all


Wow....*even you must admit that you're an idiot.*


And, the non sequitur: "...why you have more people in prison than any other country on earth."

I'm going to suggest they're guilty of criminal behavior.
Could be?


What is left without doubt is that your picture should appear next to the term "low information voter."

Let me guess: *you voted for Obama.*


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## rightwinger (Feb 19, 2013)

I like Joe McCarthy

I think he personifies the mindset of todays Republicans


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## iolo (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> iolo said:
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> > McCarthy destroyed America, leaving brainwashed conformists to obey their masters.   That's why living standards have ceased to improve and why you have more people in prison than any other country on earth.
> ...



People who need to woofle on at such interminable length clearly have difficulty in understanding basics.   The theory behind the Republic was that it was *free*.   It isn't - from McCarthy on you've been terrified to stand up to your masters, and the 'competition' you believe in is how to be the best serf.   On almost all matters of public debate you reveal yourselves to be ignorant and terrified, relying always on mobs and 'reputations' rather than on argument, and you manifestly don't know the meaning of such words as Christianity, liberalism, socialism or communism;  your blathering about such matters as global overheating is footling fatuity (see today's Guardian) financed by anonymous thieves;  You hate your President because he is part 'black';  you believe it is 'freedom' to have the means to murder children.   You are, frankly, a bloody washout!


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> I like Joe McCarthy
> 
> I think he personifies the mindset of todays Republicans



Oh....you mean Republicans such as JFK?

" "John Kennedy's views, on communism and the Soviet threat, were not so different from McCarthy's. Although a loyal Democrat, Kennedy had also bashed the Truman administration for its dismal China record. One night in February 1952 he heard a speaker at Harvard's Spree Club denounce McCarthy in the same breath as Alger Hiss. Kennedy shot back, "How dare you couple the name of a great American patriot with that of a traitor!" 
From the OP.


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## rightwinger (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
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Even JFK got sucked in to the Red Scare

Bobby also had ties to scumbag McCarthy


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

iolo said:


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1. "....at such interminable length..."
Ripped you pretty good, huh?
Destroyed every stupid statement you made.


2. "...reveal yourselves to be ignorant and terrified,..."

Oh, man....this is the winner in the category of 'Unintentional Humor"!!
I posted a fact-filled answer to your Leftist bloviation...and you claim I'm the ignorant one?

Simple enough: show the mistakes in my post, dolt.


3. Then you went on to change the subject(s) in the hope that none will realize what a fool you are.
Too late.


But....nice of you to drop in after your jog around the mental hospital....on the psycho-path.

Heck, I almost feel guilty slappin' you around...
Almost.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 19, 2013)

'Chic is quite a cyclist; keeps recycling Tailgunner.

Was he your uncle or something?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Not you, though.

Good thing there are really smart guys like you and Alger Hiss around.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> 'Chic is quite a cyclist; keeps recycling Tailgunner.
> 
> Was he your uncle or something?



Imagine how different you'd appear if you could break free of the dogma, and uncongeal those thought processes.....

...a useful beginning would be to find any thing in error in the OP.

Assuming, of course, that there were any errors....


Have a go?


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## iolo (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


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Don't bother, kid.   Nobody reads such interminable rants, including me.   If you have anything to say (which I doubt) say  it in a few words or go home.   Verbosity is boring.


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## rightwinger (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


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Joe McCarthy damaged the country more than Alger Hiss did


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

iolo said:


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Ah!

There's your problem right there:
"Nobody reads such interminable rants, including me."


Too much breedin,' not enough readin.'
Although tempting, try not to blame me for your inadequacies.


No wonder you're as smart as a stump.


BTW....no one tells me what or how to post. If you can't take the heat,
stay out of the kitchen.



Drop by any time: I get that warm fuzzy feeling that only cruelty to the stupid can provide.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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When you post stuff like that, you become the punchline to your own joke.
Bet you got that here:

 The thrust is that it was McCarthyism, more than Soviet espionage or Communism infiltration of government, that was  in the words of the October 23, 1998, NYTimes editorial, a lethal threat to American democracy. This, in the same editorial that admitted that the evidence against Julius Rosenberg, and most likely Alger Hiss, was clear.


I kinda liked this:
While reacting with unblinking ennui to Soviet spies in high government office, Democrats engaged in drama queen theatrics over McCarthyism.
Ann Coulter, Treason, p. 10

I'm surprised she didn't mention your name.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


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There you go projecting again, 'Chic! What 'frozen ideas' were expressed in my post? What errors were you accused of? We (I) just wonder why you love this character so much. After all, America was not destroyed or taken over by the Soviet Union. It was never even close.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


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"It was never even close."

No greater proof necessary that you are not well versed in this area.


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## whitehall (Feb 19, 2013)

Communism was acknowledged to be the enemy of American democracy. HUAC was organized by a democrat majority in Congress under a democrat administration and it was a logical move by government. HUAC had no power other subpoena and it's mission was generally to uncover communist infiltration into segments of government and society. You gotta give credit to the liberal media even at that time. When the fight against communist infiltration turned sour they managed to blame the whole damned thing on a single republican senator.


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## iolo (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


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I've read War and Peace, Ulysses and Á la Recherche.   There was some point in those.  Sign on for an English course and ask someone to teach you précis, then people will read your posts.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

iolo said:


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You read 'em.


Sorry it hurt so much.


Advice: anytime you post such stupidity as you did, I will roll you up and smoke you like a Cuban cigar.


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## iolo (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


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Don't beat your chest  too hard, lovey!


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## Luddly Neddite (Feb 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> I like Joe McCarthy
> 
> I think he personifies the mindset of todays Republicans



And he lives on in the hearts of a small but loud minority of rw nutters. They must be thrilled with Ted Cruz. He uses the same lies and half truths in his hysteria. 

Note to PC - iola is right. Most people don't bother to try to wade through your idiotic rants. Not saying you shouldn't write them though. Heck, anything to keep you off the streets. But, you might consider this: Everyone knows exactly what you will write long before you hit the submit button. Like other rw nutters, you're a one trick pony.


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## whitehall (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks to the union based education system which replaced the study of history with some liberal conglomeration called "social studies", generations of ignorant Americans were taught that the evil Senator McCarthy blackballed the poor commie screen writers instead of Hollywood.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> rightwinger said:
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"Everyone knows exactly what you will write long before you hit the submit button."

But you just said you didn't read them.



Actually ...you've inadvertently proven that you do....

...and, the essence of your post is that you are unable to construct a coherent rebuttal.

I understand.


I'll continue as I have been, and if and when your education reaches such a level that you feel up to it, you amble on back and try.

'Til then....my condolences.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

iolo said:


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That'd hurt!


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

The mindless, uneducated and uneducatable cling to their cherished beliefs that McCarthy used his position on the HUAC to bash the innocent, blacklist Hollywood actors and start a "Red Scare" 

The facts is that McCarthy tried to warn us that US State and the White House were home to real live, verified Communist spies who were subverting US policy and assisting their masters in Moscow.

The facts speak for themselves: Joe McCarthy was an American Hero and Patriot who fought against a ruthless, vicious, inhuman enemy


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

iolo said:


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Verbosity is boring to the uninteresting


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> The mindless, uneducated and uneducatable cling to their cherished beliefs that McCarthy used his position on the HUAC to bash the innocent, blacklist Hollywood actors and start a "Red Scare"
> 
> The facts is that McCarthy tried to warn us that US State and the White House were home to real live, verified Communist spies who were subverting US policy and assisting their masters in Moscow.
> 
> The facts speak for themselves: Joe McCarthy was an American Hero and Patriot who fought against a ruthless, vicious, inhuman enemy



"...Joe McCarthy was an American Hero and Patriot..."

Just as JFK said.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > The mindless, uneducated and uneducatable cling to their cherished beliefs that McCarthy used his position on the HUAC to bash the innocent, blacklist Hollywood actors and start a "Red Scare"
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That's how far gone the new "American" Left is today


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## konradv (Feb 19, 2013)

"Have you no decency, sir?"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO2iiovYq70]JOSEPH MCCARTHY VS JOSEPH WELCH - YouTube[/ame]


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

konradv said:


> "Have you no decency, sir?"
> 
> JOSEPH MCCARTHY VS JOSEPH WELCH - YouTube



McCarthy had challenged the patriotism of one of the Senators Welsh's staffers, Fred Fisher and that's what caused Soviet asset Welsh to issue the "have you no decency" comment

And, of course, Fred Fisher was in fact working for a Communist Front Organization

McCarthy 120 - Progressives  0


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## whitehall (Feb 19, 2013)

At least until now the government could not deprive Americans of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness (a job) without due process. Now of course we learn that the Obama administration reserves the option to execute Americans anywhere on the globe if some unnamed bureaucrat pronounces them to be a terror threat but that's another issue. McCarthy wasn't even a committee chairman. His senate committee as well as HUAC had no power other than subpoena. Who blackballed the notorious commie screen writers? Hollywood thought the alleged communist affiliation might affect the movie audiences turnout and impact the outrageous salaries they paid themselves so they fired the screen writers. They couldn't blame it on democrat Harry Truman or the democrat congressional majority so they picked a republican and thanks to the left wing media it stuck.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

konradv said:


> "Have you no decency, sir?"
> 
> JOSEPH MCCARTHY VS JOSEPH WELCH - YouTube



1. A host of other right-wing Republicans had sought to dramatize the communism issue, but only McCarthy succeeded. And McCarthy succeeded while the others did not in part because of his thoroughgoing contempt for the rules of political controversy.  
Michael Paul Rogin, The Intellectuals and McCarthy: The Radical Specter, p. 251

He forced liberals to explain themselves in full view of the American people. So they made McCarthy the issue.





2. So....the gripe is not that he was wrong....just that he was mean??

a.	As a result of the Venona Papers, and declassification of KGB files *verifies pretty much all of McCarthys charges*.and no one was ruined by McCarthy revelations.*The greatest complaint against McCarthy was that he was unkind.even mean.to those in question. *





3. But, how can any Democrat lodge that complaint after this:

a.	Pelosi slams insurers as *"immoral" villains*

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is trying to unite her divided caucus around a common enemy -- the health insurance industry -- previewing an August recess line of attack by Democrats trying to maintain momentum on health care reform.

	 they've been immoral all along," she added. "They are the villains in this, they have been part of the problem in a major way. They are doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening

	"This is the fight of our lives," she added.                                        Pelosi slams insurers as "immoral" villains - On Congress - POLITICO.com





4.	On September 11 evil registered lobbyist for United Health Steve Elmendorf   
During the summer Pelosi continually *accused medical healthcare insurance companies of everything her limited intellect could dream up.*
Pelosi tripple crosses ?evil? insurance firms bribing her to kill ?public option? with a fund raiser « Coach is Right



*Sounds pretty mean*


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

McCarthy isn't a hero, he ruined people's lives. Owen Lattimore's career was ruined and he even left the country. 
He accused a lot of innocent people, and even went after the Army. 
You guys seem to forget the lives of innocent people he destroyed.


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


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People were ruined by him. If you don't think that, you are a nit wit.


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

What about people like Lena Horne etc? 
McCarthy was not a hero, he was a dangerous fool who destroyed many people lives, and our government allowed him to. You should be ashamed of yourself for even defending what he did to many innocent people. 
Oh! And Psst, it's not illegal to be a communist.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> McCarthy isn't a hero, he ruined people's lives. Owen Lattimore's career was ruined and he even left the country.
> He accused a lot of innocent people, and even went after the Army.
> You guys seem to forget the lives of innocent people he destroyed.



Of course, you are totally wrong.

1. Liberals name Owen Lattimore as a McCarthy victim.  In actuality,* McCarthy did not name Lattimore, but only referred to a Mr. X. *In his speeches, McCarthy referred to Lattimore as "Mr X... the top Russian spy... the key man in a Russian espionage ring." On 26th March, 1950, Pearson named Lattimore as McCarthy's Mr. X.   Drew Pearson : Biography




2. *Lattimore was found to be a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy by a unanimous Senate committee *(William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 274, quoting the Congressional Record) 

*As far as his life being ruined, When Lattimore was indicted, Johns Hopkins put him on leave with pay.* He continued to have use of his office and secretary but taught no classes. Owen Lattimore and the "Loss" of China "d0e11129" 

 He also lectured at Harvard.
Sound 'ruined' to you?



3. Senator Tydings  as with so many cases in his alleged "investigation" of McCarthy's charges  did a real whitewash on Lattimore, proclaiming, "There is nothing in that file to show that you were a Communist or ever had been a Communist, or that you were in any way connected with any espionage information or charges, so that the FBI file puts you completely, up to this moment, in the clear."
The ever-intrepid Evans (M. Stanton Evans, author of Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and his fight Against America's Enemies,)  has produced a memo from Lou Nichols of *the FBI saying he couldn't understand what had come over Tydings  that the Maryland Democrat knew very well that Director Hoover had said that if he had been on the Loyalty Board, he would have questioned any attempt to clear Lattimore,* and that he regarded the IPR icon as a security risk and would never have hired him at the Bureau.

	Lattimore had conferred (during the Hitler-Stalin pact) with the Soviet ambassador about Lattimore's upcoming assignment as President Roosevelt's adviser to Chiang-Kai-Shek  then trying to fend off the Communist revolution in his country.
	Credible testimony revealed "five episodes" wherein Lattimore  within the Politburo of the Communist Party  "participated as a full participant in the conspiracy."
	A former brigadier-general in the Soviet military intelligence testified to having been told that "Lattimore was one of our men."
	On page 218 of the McCarran committee's voluminous report of its year-long investigation, this bottom line: "[T]he subcommittee can come to no other conclusion but that Lattimore was for some time beginning in the 1930s a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy."
The documented truth about the McCarthy investigations





4. Possibly you don't realize that the China we see today, *Communist China, is the result of Lattimore and Institute of Public Relations *advising in favor of Mao and agaist Chaing KaiShek.

'Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin repeatedly criticized IPR and its former chairman Philip Jessup. McCarthy observed that Frederick V. Field, T.A. Bisson, and Owen Lattimore were active in IPR and claimed that they had worked to turn American China policy in favor of the Communist Party of China.'
Institute of Pacific Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

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It very simple to prove which of us is the nit-wit.....and you aren't going to like the result.


"People were ruined by him."


*OK.....name a few.*


Should be easy enough for you.

Name any who weren't communists, who were ruined by Senator McCarthy.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 19, 2013)

Did McCarthy do anything else in his career than chase script writers? What programs did he achieve for his constituency?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> What about people like Lena Horne etc?
> McCarthy was not a hero, he was a dangerous fool who destroyed many people lives, and our government allowed him to. You should be ashamed of yourself for even defending what he did to many innocent people.
> Oh! And Psst, it's not illegal to be a communist.



1. When anti-communism took its toll in Hollywood, the blacklisting took the deadly form of not having ones name in the credits, or living in Paris, or not being able to sell a teleplay for as much as three years. This for folks who had no problem with Ukrainian farmers and their children eating their shoes.



2. From blacklist survivor Norma Barzman about her exile in Paris: We had dinner with Picasso every Tuesday night when we were at our country house in Provence. It was hard, but it was the time of my life. (Dennis Hamilton, Keeper of the Flame: A Blacklist Survivor, Los Angeles Times, October 3, 2000) The horror, the horror.
Ten Hollywood scribblers who subscribed to an ideology responsible for murder by the millions refused to admit their membership in the Communist Party to a House Committee. All they had to do was fess up. But they felt they had the right not to tell the truth, so they were briefly jailed for contempt. (Ann Coulter, Treason, p.77)

Tragic, eh?



3. BTW, when the Ten claimed a First Amendment right not to answer the Houses questions, the Supreme Court refused to even hear the case. (THE SUPREME COURT: The Hollywood Ten - TIME)


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


Why does it matter If they were communist or not? It isn't illegal to hold a certain political view. And I already named two. 
Unless you think McCarthy was justified in ruining Owen Lattimore's career, who cleared of all charges? How about Lena Horne? 
Yeah you are a nit wit, and you obviously have no problem the government regulations people's political views.


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > What about people like Lena Horne etc?
> ...



Lena Horne was a black woman, she had to spend her time singing in night clubs. And you are justifying what he did because someone enjoyed being exiled in Paris?
I would rather go to Paris by choice. 

How about Arthur Miller? 

My friend is a self proclaimed Marxist should she be jailed or forced to live another country because of this?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Lena Horne was a government worker???


and Arthur Miller...too????


Wow.


OK...now for the truth:

1. " the House Un-American Activities Committee; anti-Communist probes into Hollywood, labor unions, and America's schools and universities; the Rosenberg trial; blacklisting in the media and schoolteachers fired for disloyalty  *had nothing to do with McCarthy and he had nothing to do with them *(although when asked, he generally approved of them, as most other Americans did). 

McCarthy's own committee in the Senate, the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which he chaired for less than two years, had *a specific duty to investigate communism in the federal government and among government employees.*"
Joseph McCarthy


You didn't know that, did you?

Did you want to say something about nit-wits?


More?

2. "That fact tends to get lost when historians dwell exclusively on the stories of harassment, professional disgrace, and other indignities suffered as a result of McCarthy's and other anti-Communist investigations. Dalton Trumbo, Dashiell Hammett, Howard Fast, Paul Robeson, Steve Nelson, Frances Farmer, and Lillian Hellman appear in standard treatments of the period in the same way in which the *names of martyrs *grace the pages of histories of the early church. Their personal ordeals are constantly presented as proof that America in those days must have been in the grip of an anti-Communist hysteria and a "witch-hunt." (In order not to be left out, Hellman told her own tale of woe in a short book of breathtaking dishonesty, entitled Scoundrel Time.)


3.	 The best and most generous estimate is that during the entire decade of the red scare, ten thousand Americans lost their jobs because of their past or present affiliation with the Communist Party or one of its auxiliary organizations. Of those who lost their jobs, *two thousand worked in the government, and in perhaps forty cases McCarthy himself was directly or indirectly responsible for their being fired.* In only one case  that of Owen Lattimore  can anyone make the argument that McCarthy's allegations led to any actual legal proceedings, and there a judge eventually threw out most of the indictment. Paradoxically, the fact that* McCarthy never sent anyone to prison* is also turned against him; opponents claimed that during his entire career, he never actually exposed a single spy or Communist  a claim that is manifestly untrue, as we will see.


4.	In fact, the number of people who did spend time in prison remained small. A grand total of *108 Communist Party members were convicted under the antisubversion provisions of the Smith Act, which Congress passed in 1941 (long before McCarthy was a member) *and applied as *equally to Nazi and fascist* organizations as it did to Communists. Another twenty Communist Party members were imprisoned under state and local laws. *Fewer than a dozen Americans went to jail for espionage activities* (one of them being Alger Hiss, who was convicted of perjury). Exactly two were sentenced to death for conspiracy to commit espionage: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg."
Ibid.



'Claiming to have been blacklisted is Hollywoods version of coming over on the Mayflower.
Thanks to brave American patriots like Senator Joseph McCarthy, today Communists in America are substantially less likely to be employed in the Code Room at the Pentagon. These days, they are more likely to be scribbling little essays in the main street media.'
Coulter


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



1. I showed you that Lattimore's life was not ruined, in fact he benefited.

2. Even the truth about Owen Lattimore, the most famous of McCarthy's "victims," has finally come out, thanks to a former Chinese espionage agent's memoirs and declassified FBI files, which go a long way* to vindicate McCarthy's original charges.* Joseph McCarthy


3."Why does it matter If they were communist or not? "
At the time, the communist party's avowed interest was the violent overthrowing of the United Stated government.

Communists like Alger Hiss was a spy for the Soviet Union, convicted of perjury. Latttimore was a spy as well.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 19, 2013)

From Wikipedia:
"It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]

He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time."

Some hero.


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



I am speaking of McCarthyism, nit wit. 
No where did I state he was involved. I am using them as examples of what his way of thinking and your way of thinking causes. And what his crusade caused? 
And you don't think McCarthy had anything to do With Arthur Miller? He went after the radio host, you don't think he had them go after Miller?

And what about Owen Lattimore? He was cleared of everything, but he lost work due to McCarthy falsely accusing him. 

So I will be clearer. His ideas and his witch hunt ruined people's lives. And if you think he had nothing to do with the house committee you are very naive.


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



What kind of dumb logic could you use to defend mccarthy falsely accusing someone? Oh! That is life benefited from it. 
How horrible for you. If you can be okay with an elected official falsely accusing someone with no proof.
And if he wasn't ruined, how come he lost his contract and moved from the US? 

Yeah you are the nit wit. If you think someone who falsely accused people, was shut down by his fellow senators and went after the US Army is a hero, you have major problems.


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## Luissa (Feb 19, 2013)

What about Val Lorwin? He spent years defending himself. He was a socialist who loathed the communist party but that didn't stop the government or McCarthy who took the word of someone he knew in college. 

So what do you think of McCarthyism PC? You okay with people being black listed And falsely accused?


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> McCarthy isn't a hero, he ruined people's lives. Owen Lattimore's career was ruined and he even left the country.
> He accused a lot of innocent people, and even went after the Army.
> You guys seem to forget the lives of innocent people he destroyed.



Owen Lattimore was a genuine fucking spy!

Holy fucking moly!!!

Name one "innocent" McCarthy destroyed.

One fucking name


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> What about people like Lena Horne etc?
> McCarthy was not a hero, he was a dangerous fool who destroyed many people lives, and our government allowed him to. You should be ashamed of yourself for even defending what he did to many innocent people.
> Oh! And Psst, it's not illegal to be a communist.



Moron.

Actually, it is illegal when you swear an oath to defend the Constitution and yet you're working to subvert it

It's called treason


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> What about Val Lorwin? He spent years defending himself. He was a socialist who loathed the communist party but that didn't stop the government or McCarthy who took the word of someone he knew in college.
> 
> So what do you think of McCarthyism PC? You okay with people being black listed And falsely accused?



Luissa is just plain fucking stupid and can't learn

There's no other explanation


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## there4eyeM (Feb 19, 2013)

More heroicism:

"In his campaign, McCarthy attacked La Follette for not enlisting during the war, although La Follette had been 46 when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He also claimed La Follette had made huge profits from his investments while he, McCarthy, had been away fighting for his country. In fact, McCarthy had invested in the stock market himself during the war, netting a profit of $42,000 in 1943. La Follette's investments consisted of partial interest in a radio station, which earned him a profit of $47,000 over two years."


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...





You were speaking of McCarthyism....not McCarthy?

Did you read the OP to which you were ostensibly responding.

No?

That's pretty much the definition of nit-wit, isn't it.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 19, 2013)

Some recognize his true contribution:

"William Bennett, former Reagan Administration Secretary of Education, summed up this perspective in his 2007 book America: The Last Best Hope:

    The cause of anti-communism, which united millions of Americans and which gained the support of Democrats, Republicans and independents, was undermined by Sen. Joe McCarthy ... McCarthy addressed a real problem: disloyal elements within the U.S. government. But his approach to this real problem was to cause untold grief to the country he claimed to love ... Worst of all, McCarthy besmirched the honorable cause of anti-communism. He discredited legitimate efforts to counter Soviet subversion of American institutions."


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Luissa said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



"...who falsely accused people,..."

Who was falsely accused by McCarthy?


You are not only ignorant....but refuse to admit when faced with the truth.


Even after the scandal of the Rosenberg cell emerging from the Army, the Army was still employing security risks. Beginning in early 1953, of a whole year, Army intelligence issued urgent warnings about Captain Irving Peress, reports stating that Peress was an active member of the Communist Party, that he was very disloyal and untrustworthy. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarty: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of Americas Most Hated Senator, p. 248) 

 He was thought to be organizing a Communist cell on the Army base. His company commander wanted him dismissed on grounds of national security.  (David Oshinsky, A Conspiracy So Immense, p. 366-367) 

 Instead the Army promoted him to Major! McCarty exposed the Armys stupidity in dealing with Peress. The result?  Honorable discharge.  And McCarty was attacked by Vermont Republican Senator Flanders, stating the Peress was merely a pink dentist in New Jersey.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 19, 2013)

The lengths to which the "American" Left goes to defend genuine Communists is simply fucking staggering.

Joe McCarthy pointed out that we had genuine spies subverting our foreign policy and Progressive hate him for pointing it out

What conclusion can you make other than Progressives are mindless useful idiots spewing defense of Communism?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> Some recognize his true contribution:
> 
> "William Bennett, former Reagan Administration Secretary of Education, summed up this perspective in his 2007 book America: The Last Best Hope:
> 
> The cause of anti-communism, which united millions of Americans and which gained the support of Democrats, Republicans and independents, was undermined by Sen. Joe McCarthy ... McCarthy addressed a real problem: disloyal elements within the U.S. government. But his approach to this real problem was to cause untold grief to the country he claimed to love ... Worst of all, McCarthy besmirched the honorable cause of anti-communism. He discredited legitimate efforts to counter Soviet subversion of American institutions."




I have no doubt that you can find folks who either know as little about the times or Senator McCarthy as you do....

...or who are simply afraid to speak the truth in fear of being attacked the way McCarthy has been.


You can take the same test as the nit-wit:

Name any innocent folks 'ruined' by Senator McCarthy.

Should be lots of 'em if you're correct.


Otherwise.....what would your excuse be?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 19, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> PC defends Joe McCarthy
> 
> Begin Leftist outrage here as PC giggles



This is useful.

If I was defending something crazy like firebombing Atlanta it would make you think less of me.

So it lets you know where folks are coming from.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 19, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> The lengths to which the "American" Left goes to defend genuine Communists is simply fucking staggering.
> 
> Joe McCarthy pointed out that we had genuine spies subverting our foreign policy and Progressive hate him for pointing it out
> 
> What conclusion can you make other than Progressives are mindless useful idiots spewing defense of Communism?



I hear a rumor we had planes overflying the Soviet Union.  Must have been a coolish war going on lol.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > PC defends Joe McCarthy
> ...





I don't know about you, but I'm coming from the educated perspective.

Did you note the offer throughout this thread for folks to *name some of those innocents 'ruined' by the good Senator McCarthy in his quest to remove communists* from sensitive positions in the United States government.


Now, if you disagree with my perspective.....

...feel free to avail yourself of the same offer.



Pretty simple test of veracity.....true?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 19, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > The lengths to which the "American" Left goes to defend genuine Communists is simply fucking staggering.
> ...



Not sure what clever point you are making....but the Soviet's wouldn't allow US planes to land....


1. "A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelts Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitlers forces, would have been defeated. The temporary congruence of interests was called an alliance, albeit a strange one. For example, when the Americans tried to find a way that long-range American bombers could land in Russia to re-fuel, so as to bomb deep into Germany, the Russians were found to be suspicious, ungrateful, secretive, xenophobic, unfriendly, in short.a great deal of take and very little give." 
John V. Fleming, The Anti-Communist Manifestos

2. "While American presence in Russia was modest and equivocal, Russian presence in wartime America was so large that they had to set up a corporate headquarters on Sixteenth Street in Washington. One of the executives in th huge staff was Victor Kravchenko, metallurgist, engineer, executive, and captain in the Red Army. And the first Soviet defector. Ibid.


Of course, Uncle Joe Stalin had a few friends in the White House at the time......


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## there4eyeM (Feb 20, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > Some recognize his true contribution:
> ...



What is it that keeps you associating my posts with what others are saying? My argument has stated nothing about McCarthy's affects upon careers. I simply point out how worthless the sick clown was.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 20, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > McCarthy became to a degree the scapegoat for the most shameful witch hunt in American History, but giving that he relished his role in that witch hunt, it is hard to feel sorry for him.
> ...



No, I didn't miss it, I ignored it because like most of your rehashed Cold War propaganda, it was kind of retarded. 

Fact is, like Saddam and Bin Laden, Stalin was great when he was killing people we didn't like. We gave him a shitload of weapons so he could do it.  And here's the ugly little secret we Americans don't like to admit.  the USA didn't win WWII, the USSR did.   We just benefited from their victory.  We really need to stop getting into bed with monsters and then complain when they turn on us.  

We had no problem with what Stalin was doing to his own people when the Red Army was handling the _Wehrmacht_ for us.  The tragedy of Robeson and Trumbo was that they kept singing the song the government wanted them to sing after they told them to stop singing it.  "OH, wait, you weren't sincere when you called him "Cuddly Uncle Joe"?"


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 20, 2013)

Progs were trained at a young age to froth at the mouth at the mention of "McCarthy".  As you can see from this thread it is impossible to retain them


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## JoeB131 (Feb 20, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Progs were trained at a young age to froth at the mouth at the mention of "McCarthy".  As you can see from this thread it is impossible to retain them



I don't think you understand the definition of the word "retain", but that's okay. 

The fact is, McCarthy was a horrible person, because he took advantage of fears to persue his own agenda.  And at the end of the day, it was his fellow Republicans, including President Eisenhower, who turned on him.  

That was when Republicans used to have integrity.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
> ...



Clearly you misunderstand.


The Senator sacrificed his own career to confront  the weakness and the attitudes of the establishment.
He should be recognized in the same way that Paul Revere is.


McCarthy is an American hero.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...





What an ignorant post you've written.
Surprisingly so, even for you.


1. Stalin was never 'great.'

2. He didn't handle the Nazis....he formed a pact with them.
Go back and read the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

3. Another indication of the subservience of the American communists to a foreign government can be seen during WWII. At the behest of the Commintern, as the archives reveals, the American Peace Mobilization committee was formed in April of 41. Its function was to support the Soviet line, *bring progressives aboard,* protest against the lend-lease program to aid Britainthey paraded in front of the White House, chanting FDR is a fascist, hes starting a war! *They managed to dupe the easiest group to dupe: progressive pastors.* The NYTimes article at the time said Clergyman Group Opposes War Aid!

a.	In mid-protest, on* June 22, 1941,* they became pro-war! *The Germans had broken their agreement with the Soviets, and invaded Russia!*  Suddenly the group was for lend-lease, and FDR wasnt a fascistand they changed their name to American Peoples Mobilization.

b.	The HUAC had exposed this group as one of the most seditious and subversive front groups.


Thank goodness for warriors like McCarthy.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 20, 2013)

and a peek inside the real thoughts in a cons mind shows why the party is the walking dead


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## JoeB131 (Feb 20, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> [
> 
> What an ignorant post you've written.
> Surprisingly so, even for you.
> ...



Thank goodness for cheap demagogues who smeared innocent people?  Seriously?  

Point was, a lot of people were against getting into another war.  They remember how in WWI, we went from merely providing materials to the Allies, to giving the allies material on credit, to actually going to go off and fight the war for them.  before Pearl Harbor, a lot of people thought doing it again was the wrong way to go. 

Now, to your other profound bit of historical ignorance.  You cite Ribbontrop-Molotov without mentioning Munich, and how the west threw Czechoslovakia under the bus. It was only then Stalin realized the west wasn't going to stand up to Hitler, so he might as well cut a deal. And then he quietly went about making preparations for when Hitler would inevitably turn on him. 

For the west, they wanted Hitler and Mussolini to contain stalin, which is why they ignored Hitler's multiple violations of Versailles. 

And America just wanted to stay out of it. 

But when the shit got real, the Russians did most of the real fighting. And dying. We Americans have a bad habit of thinking we are the center of the universe when we really aren't. 

NOw, all that said, if you really want to advocate taking away people's rights and dignity because they were on the losing side of a political argument, I would suggest you go back and look at what happened last November and ask if you REALLY think that's a good idea.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 20, 2013)

anyone who think Mc was a hero is not very American at heart


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

Truthmatters said:


> anyone who think Mc was a hero is not very American at heart



He opposed communist agents of the Soviet Union infiltrating the United States government.

And....you're opposed to that endeavor?


No?

Well, then, you agree that Senator McCarthy was an American hero, right?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...




1. Here is a very simple test to determine whether of not you've been brainwashed, and know not whereof you speak:


Name a few of the who  innocent people smeared.




2. "....if you really want to advocate taking away people's rights..."

Ah....I see: you are talking through your hat. And it's so very easy to prove this:

"We need to remember that during the entire period, from 1947 to 1958, no American citizens were interrogated without benefit of legal counsel, none was arrested or detained without due judicial process, and no one went to jail without trial. As George Kennan, no admirer of the investigations, stated, "Whoever could get his case before a court was generally assured of meeting there with a level of justice no smaller than at any time in recent American history." All through the "worst" of the McCarthy period, the Communist Party itself was never outlawed, membership in the party was never declared a crime, and it continued to maintain public offices, publish books and the Daily Worker, and recruit new members (admittedly a tough sell by then)."
Joseph McCarthy



3.  I can always tell when you know you've stuck your foot in your mouth....you change the subject. As in "...  You cite Ribbontrop-Molotov without mentioning..blah, blah, blah."

The pact shows that the Stalin you claimed was 'great' never intended to confront the Nazis if he could help it.




4. "It was only then Stalin realized the west wasn't going to stand up to Hitler,..."
Horsefeathers.

Stalin was fine with killing his targets, and Hitler his.....as long as they had apologists like you to make sure that he got no flak from the West.



5. Now, for the punchline....go ahead and pretend you've studied history.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

Truthmatters said:


> and a peek inside the real thoughts in a cons mind shows why the party is the walking dead



What???

You aren't a Republican???


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## NoNukes (Feb 20, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> PC defends Joe McCarthy
> 
> Begin Leftist outrage here as PC giggles



Leave it to a conservative to defend such a man.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > PC defends Joe McCarthy
> ...




Every opponent in this thread bloviates as you do.....

Take the challenge: who did he injure that wasn't a communist agent or spy or proponent of the overthrowing of the United States.


Otherwise, you're simply another Pod Person, unable to process real facts.

Or....you can simply agree that that analysis is correct, and amble on.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 20, 2013)

PC you just dont understand this country.

Its your own fault


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

Truthmatters said:


> PC you just dont understand this country.
> 
> Its your own fault




Have you been able to find anything that I've written that isn't so?


Anything?


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## there4eyeM (Feb 20, 2013)

Have you been able to find anything that I've written that isn't so?


Anything?[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Well, the part where you answer other people's comments addressed to this poster as if he were proposing something that he was and is not. I provided facts of another sort, in keeping with the title of this thread, maintaining the position that he was an ego driven man of limited capacities who is known to have lied to produce desired results.
> 
> Did I say anything wrong?
> 
> Anything?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> Have you been able to find anything that I've written that isn't so?
> 
> 
> Anything?[/quote said:
> ...


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## whitehall (Feb 20, 2013)

The modern left seems incapable of independent thought. If their 7th grade teacher said that a single republican senator was responsible for some poor commie writers being unemployed then that's the way it is. Somehow left wingers have found that they can rid themselves of guilt or anger simply by blaming a republican. I mean how much evidence do you need? Communism was the enemy of the free world in the post WW2 era and HUAC (house unamerican activities committee) was created in congress and similar committee in the senate. The political majority was democrat and the president was a democrat. Hollywood even produced a TV show called "I led three lives" and a John Wayne/James Arness movie depicting the heroic struggle against communism by HUAC. The 60's rolls around and Hollywood turns on a dime and the radicals start joining CUSA and the next thing you know the whole unpleasant era is blamed on a single republican senator.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 20, 2013)

I think the republican party should seek the new McCarthy and then run him for president.

America would be soooooo receptive to that


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## there4eyeM (Feb 20, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > Have you been able to find anything that I've written that isn't so?
> ...


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

Truthmatters said:


> I think the republican party should seek the new McCarthy and then run him for president.
> 
> America would be soooooo receptive to that



Only the intelligent ones would....

....but I get your drift: 

only 60,707,106 intelligent folks....47.3% of the population, huh.


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## NoNukes (Feb 20, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Dalton Trumbo.


----------



## konradv (Feb 20, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > anyone who think Mc was a hero is not very American at heart
> ...



Not if he runs over the innocent to do it.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

konradv said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



"if"??


Surely you don't believe he did so......do you?


You do?


Well have a very simple test to determine if your view has been programmed into you based on a Left-wing ideology....or if you can be counted on to absorb the truth, and incorporate same into your thinking.

Here is the test: name a bunch of "innocents" he 'ran over."

There are those who are prepared to receive wisdomand those who are not.
Which are you?


The names of said innocents are......


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 20, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



Who??

When did Joe McCarthy name him as a spy?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...





Wow....who'd ever thought you could pull that rabbit out of your.....hat?
Gee....did I make a mistake in challenging a well-educated guy like you: "who did he injure that wasn't a communist agent or spy or proponent of the overthrowing of the United States."

Hmmmm.....

Oh...wait!
You're just one of the herd, the Pod People who doesn't know whereof he speaks....aren't you?


1. . Trumbo was part of the anti-fascist Popular* Front coalition of communists and liberals *in the late 1930s, at the time of the Spanish Civil War. The Popular Front against Nazism and Fascism was been torn asunder in August 1939 when the USSR signed a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany. Many party members quit the CPUSA in disgust, but the true believers parroted the party line, which was now pro-peace and against US involvement in WWII. Trumbo reportedly did not join the Party until 1943 and harbored personal reservations about its policies as regards enforcing ideological conformity. However, the publication of his anti-war novel "Johnny Got His Gun" in 1939 coincided with the shift of the CPUSA's stance from anti-Hitler to pro-peace, and his novel was embraced by the Party as the type of literature needed to keep the US out of the war. Trumbo agreed with the Party's pro-peace platform."
Dalton Trumbo - Biography

2. "*Appearing before HCUA *(sic) in October 1947 with Alvah Bessie, Herbert J. Biberman, Lester Cole, John Howard Lawson, 'Ring Lardner Jr' , Albert Maltz, Adrian Scott, and Samuel Ornitz, *Trumbo - like the others - refused to answer any questions.* In a defense *strategy crafted by CPUSA lawyers,* the soon-to-be-known-as "Hollywood 10" claimed that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gave them the right to refuse to answer inquiries into their political beliefs as well as their professional associations. HCUA cited them for *contempt of Congress, *and the Hollywood 10 were tried and convicted on the charge. All were fined and jailed, with Trumbo being sentenced to a year in federal prison and a fine of $1,000. He served 10 months of the sentence. *The Hollywood 10 were blacklisted by the Hollywood studios, a blacklist enforced by the very guilds they helped create.* Trumbo and the other Hollywood 10 screenwriters were kicked out of the Screen Writers Guild (John Howard Lawson had been one of the founders of the SWG and its first president), which meant, even if they weren't blacklisted, they could not obtain work in Hollywood. Those who *continued to write for the American cinema had to do so under assumed names..."*
Ibid.

BTW, when the Ten claimed a First Amendment right not to answer the Houses questions, the Supreme Court refused to even hear the case. 

3. "In 1949, Arthur Schlesinger Jr., wrote in The Saturday Review of Books, that Trumbo was in fact NOT a free speech martyr since he would not fight for freedom of speech for ALL the people, such as right-wing conservatives, but *only for the freedom of speech of CPUSA members*.The anti-communist Schlesinger, a Pulitzer Prize-winning Harvard historian, thought *Trumbo and others like him were doctrinaire communists and hypocrites." *
Ibid.

4. "...*Trumbo wrote approximately thirty scripts under pseudonyms* and using fronts who relayed the money to him." Ibid.


And....I saved the coup de grâce for last:

5. "	In fact, most of what people ordinarily mean when they talk about the "red scare"  the *House Un-American Activities Committee; anti-Communist probes into Hollywood, labor unions, and America's schools and universities; the Rosenberg trial; blacklisting in the media and schoolteachers fired for disloyalty  had nothing to do with McCarthy *and he had nothing to do with them..."
Joseph McCarthy


To review:
1. The test was: "who did he injure that wasn't a communist agent or spy or proponent of the overthrowing of the United States."

2. Your response of Dalton Trumbo is of course wrong, because he a) was a communist, and refused to admit that to HUAC....

and, b) It was SENATOR Joseph McCarthy, hardly a member of a HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES committee.

...how about c) Trumbo continued to thrive during the 'blacklisting' by Hollywood. A very different fate from the Russians who died in gulags under his pride and joy, Joseph Stalin.


So...in offering Dalton Trumbo you have failed miserably.
My point about McCarthy.....

...proven.


Would you care to maintain your honor and admit same?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 20, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. Here is a very simple test to determine whether of not you've been brainwashed, and know not whereof you speak:
> 
> 
> Name a few of the who  innocent people smeared.



Trumbo. Robeson. They guys in the Army who wouldn't admit Roy Cohn's gay buddy to OCS. 

You do know who Roy Cohn was, don't you?  






> 2. "....if you really want to advocate taking away people's rights..."
> 
> Ah....I see: you are talking through your hat. And it's so very easy to prove this:
> 
> "We need to remember that during the entire period, from 1947 to 1958, no American citizens were interrogated without benefit of legal counsel, .....



You miss the point. The travesty is that these things happened at all.  

This is the stupidity you engage in. "Well, it was political persecution, but we didn't have gulags." 

Kind of like saying, what we did to the Japanese Americans 70 years ago was okay, because we weren't turning them into Lampshades like Hitler did to the Jews.  It was still wrong and in violation of our principles and rights. 





> 3.  I can always tell when you know you've stuck your foot in your mouth....you change the subject. As in "...  You cite Ribbontrop-Molotov without mentioning..blah, blah, blah."
> 
> The pact shows that the Stalin you claimed was 'great' never intended to confront the Nazis if he could help it.



I'm sure if Stalin could have gotten back all the territory Russia lost at Brest-Listov, that would have been fine with them, especially without a war. 






> 4. "It was only then Stalin realized the west wasn't going to stand up to Hitler,..."
> Horsefeathers.
> 
> Stalin was fine with killing his targets, and Hitler his.....as long as they had apologists like you to make sure that he got no flak from the West.



You leave out the big chunks of history- again. 

If the West had invaded Germany when Hitler re-militrized the Rhineland, Hitler would have been done in the mid 30's.  Or when he unified with Austria. Or when he dismembered Czechoslovakia.  And frankly, even when he invaded Poland (with Stalin's help) the West didn't really do anything.  They had a word for it "SitzKreig".  Stalin had every suspicion the west was putting Hitler up to a fight with him, and honestly, he had no reason to trust the west. 





> 5. Now, for the punchline....go ahead and pretend you've studied history.



I've got a degree in it, and not from a university that teaches about Talking Snakes... which is where I imagine you got your, you Home Skule Valedictorian, you.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 20, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



Are you at least willing to concede that you've been misinformed about McCarthy


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Here is a very simple test to determine whether of not you've been brainwashed, and know not whereof you speak:
> ...



You might want to ask for a refund.  The invasion of Poland was the official start of WWII

Also your Uncle Joe did dick in helping to conquer Poland, he moved in after the fighting was all done


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 20, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Here is a very simple test to determine whether of not you've been brainwashed, and know not whereof you speak:
> ...



Trumbo???

See post #95; it proves how very little you know.


And...
Now to take care of Curly, Moe and Shemp:

"contrast all this with the three and a half million people who, according to the KGB's own official numbers, were arrested and sent to the gulag during the six years of Stalin's Great Terror, from 1935 to 1941. None had the benefit of any genuine legal protection; Stalin's secret police seized, interrogated, and sentenced the lot. The KGB states that of that number, 681,692 were executed in 1937-1938 alone. Taken with the four or five million people who died in Stalin's Great Famine of 1932-1933, the total number of human beings executed, exiled, imprisoned, or starved to death in those years comes to ten to eleven million. These are official KGB numbers released at the end of the cold war. They are almost certainly low. *And during all the years when this was taking place, men and women like Trumbo, Robeson, and Hellman insisted that Stalin was the just and compassionate father of his people, asserted that Soviet citizens enjoyed a freedom and happiness unknown in American society, and celebrated the Soviet Union as the model society for the future. *Others, such as Julius Rosenberg, Alger Hiss, Judith Coplon, Martin Sobell, and Steve Nelson, willingly served the Stalinist regime, as other espionage agents or as part of the Communist underground apparatus."
Joseph McCarthy


Takes care of Trumbo, Robeson, and you.


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## Luissa (Feb 20, 2013)

You want an innocent victim? How about the US Army? 
He went after them and it ruined his career. I am glad this sort of thing can't happen again... Oh! Wait.


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## waltky (Feb 21, 2013)

Granny says, "Dat's right...

... he was gonna clean alla commonists outta the gubmint...

... anna wimpy limp wrist lib'rals made him stop...

... now look what we got."


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## JoeB131 (Feb 21, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> You might want to ask for a refund.  The invasion of Poland was the official start of WWII
> 
> Also your Uncle Joe did dick in helping to conquer Poland, he moved in after the fighting was all done



Hitler wouldn't have moved against Poland if he thought he'd have to fight Russia and France.  

This is what Germany wanted to avoid- a two front war.  

Of course, at that point, Stalin didn't trust the west, given they were treating him like he was a bigger threat than Hitler was.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 21, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Trumbo???
> 
> See post #95; it proves how very little you know.
> 
> ...



So, um, how was Trumbo personally responsible for what the winners did to the losers of Russia's Civil War?  

It was a civil war, dumbass. And frankly, we didn't have a problem with it either.  Kind of like how we didn't have a problem with what Saddam did to the Kurds until he invade Kuwait and made us pay a massive $2.00 a gallon for gasoline. 

Please, conditional morality is kind of phony, don't you think?  Being on the "Wrong" side of history is not a reason to lose your basic rights and decency. 

Again, saying that what Stalin did was worse was like saying it was okay we threw the Japanese Americans into concentration camps, because, hey, at least we weren't killing them like Hitler was doing to the Jews in his. 

What we did was still wrong. We let ourselves get scared into giving up our principles.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 21, 2013)

Luissa said:


> You want an innocent victim? How about the US Army?
> He went after them and it ruined his career. I am glad this sort of thing can't happen again... Oh! Wait.



The problem there was that the Army could hit back.  

I think the thing was, much like the TEA Party, McCarthy was a useful tool when the GOP was out of power to beat up on the Truman Administration, but when Ike got in, he had outlived his usefullness.  And Roy Cohn's attempts to get his buddy, G. David Schine, special privilages kind of irked the Army to no end.


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## NoNukes (Feb 21, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



No, I think you are afraid to admit failure. Simply being a Communist did not meet the criteria of your challenge.


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## editec (Feb 21, 2013)

The following is what REPUBLICANS thought about Jos, McCathy/

Those of you who are now trying to make a hero of this drunken villian ought to read it closely.





> "Mr. President:
> 
> I would like to speak briefly and simply about a serious national condition. It is a national feeling of fear and frustration that could result in national suicide and the end of everything that we Americans hold dear. It is a condition that comes from the lack of effective leadership in either the Legislative Branch or the Executive Branch of our Government.
> 
> ...



Margaret Chase Smith Library - Library


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## NoNukes (Feb 21, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You are afraid to admit that you are wrong. Dalton Trumbo did not meet the criteria of your challenge,

How about Martin Ritt?


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## konradv (Feb 21, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Owen Lattimore
Born and raised in Shanghai, Owen Lattimore was the former editor for the Institute of Pacific Relations Journal. He was the United States government liaison to Chiang Kai-Shek before the Nationalists' defeat in their civil war with China. From 1938 to 1950, Lattimore was directed the Page School of International Relations a Johns Hopkins University.

Lattimore's outspokenness, liberal views and acquaintance with Chiang Kai-Shek made him an easy target for McCarthy's anti-Communist campaigns. In 1950, McCarthy accused Lattimore of being the number one spy for the Soviets. After facing 12 days of intense questioning by McCarthy and his committee, Lattimore was charged with seven counts of perjury. Even though these charges were dismissed three years later, Lattimore's reputation and credibility among people was destroyed. Even after his death in 1989, many still questioned his loyalty to his country.

Val Lorwin
Val Lorwin was a State Department employee who had served in the labor section. When Joe McCarthy first brandished his list of alleged Communists, Lorwin was number 54 on the list. At this time, Lorwin was working as a labor economist in Paris.

Lorwin landed on the government's radar when his old friend Harold Metz testified that Lorwin had shown him a red card for the Communist Party and had hosted some "strange-looking people" at his house. Metz had actually made a mistake. Lorwin was later cleared in 1952 by the Loyalty Board when he testified that the red card was for the Socialist Party and the "strange-looking people" were Socialists.

Despite this, Lorwin was still indicted before the State Department for perjury. It wasn't until two years later did the Assistant Attorney General dismissed these charges. By then, Lorwin's reputation was tainted and Lorwin even said he felt like "several years of my own and my wife's life" were taken away. He even wrote, "I was thankful that we have no children".


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

editec said:


> The following is what REPUBLICANS thought about Jos, McCathy/
> 
> Those of you who are now trying to make a hero of this drunken villian ought to read it closely.
> 
> ...





Hold back those crocodile tears.
Who cares what any wrote THEN...when time has revealed that Senator McCarthy was correct and you...and the others are and were wrong.


1. Senator Joe McCarthy confronted *government officials concealing communist involvement* and excessively lax security with regards to Communists in sensitive U.S. Government posts. In many cases he was on target, with over 81 of the names he gave the Tydings committee resulting in resignations or movement of security risks. Given that over 200 of the spies uncovered in the Venona decrypts were never identified, we can only speculate as to the national security impact of removing Communists from key DoD and State Dept posts. Arthur Herman, author of "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator," says that *the accuracy of McCarthy's charges "was no longer a matter of debate," that they are "now accepted as fact." *And The New York Post's Eric Fettmann has noted: *"growing historical evidence underscores that, whatever his rhetorical and investigative excesses - and they were substantial - McCarthy was a lot closer to the truth about Communism than were his foes."*

2. Whittaker Chambers wrote in his book WITNESS that *liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs. In short, Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals. *The revisionist is aware of the horrors of Communism; the tortures, the Gulags, the over 100 million persons done to death. She is even aware that the *American Communists were taking their orders from Moscow and were attempting to impose the Red Utopia upon the United States. If successful, this would have led to millions tortured, enslaved, starved and murdered.* It would have led to the death of human freedom for untold years. As the US was the bulwarked of freedom and Democracy, it's communization would have turned the entire world into an abatoir. 



3. '*The Venona papers, together with these archives, made it absolutely clear that the American Communist Party was from its beginning the willing agent of Soviet intelligence, obedient to its orders, financed by its contributions, and serving not only as a propaganda organ for Soviet policies but as a generous source for the recruitment of agents who would thereupon influence American policy and gladly commit espionage as well. It is now plain that by 1945 every important branch of the American government, from the White House itself to the State Department, the Defense Department, the Justice Department, the Treasury Department, the Office of Strategic Services (predecessor to the CIA), and the Office of War Information, to name only a few, was infested with Communists busily doing the work of the Soviet Union.*

Moreover, it is obvious that* a penetration so complete *would have been impossible if the Communists had not been able to depend on the blindness or indifference of many of the far larger number of *ordinary liberals *who dominated the Roosevelt Administration. As early as the late 1930s, even known Communists in government were often regarded by their colleagues as merely "liberals in a hurry." And during the war, of course, they could be excused as simply enthusiasts for America's doughty ally, "good old Joe."
The Claremont Institute - A Closer Look Under The Bed



I hate for you to embarrass yourself.....so....

Here's your homework:

Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America (Yale Nota Bene) [Paperback]
John Earl Haynes (Author), Harvey Klehr (Author)


In Denial: Historians, Communism, and Espionage [Paperback]
John Earl Haynes (Author), Harvey Klehr (Author)


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

konradv said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...





This is from post #44:

1. Liberals name Owen Lattimore as a McCarthy victim. In actuality, *McCarthy did not name Lattimore,* but only referred to a Mr. X. In his speeches, McCarthy referred to Lattimore as "Mr X... the top Russian spy... the key man in a Russian espionage ring." On 26th March, 1950, Pearson named Lattimore as McCarthy's Mr. X. Drew Pearson : Biography




2.* Lattimore was found to be a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy by a unanimous Senate committee* (William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 274, quoting the Congressional Record) 

As far as his life being ruined, When Lattimore was indicted, Johns Hopkins put him on leave *with pay*. He continued to have use of his office and secretary but taught no classes. Owen Lattimore and the "Loss" of China "d0e11129" 

He also lectured at Harvard.
Sound 'ruined' to you?



3. Senator Tydings  as with so many cases in his alleged "investigation" of McCarthy's charges  did a real whitewash on Lattimore, proclaiming, "There is nothing in that file to show that you were a Communist or ever had been a Communist, or that you were in any way connected with any espionage information or charges, so that the FBI file puts you completely, up to this moment, in the clear."
The ever-intrepid Evans (M. Stanton Evans, author of Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and his fight Against America's Enemies,) has produced a memo from Lou Nichols of the FBI saying he couldn't understand what had come over Tydings  that the Maryland Democrat knew very well that Director Hoover had said that if he had been on the Loyalty Board, he would have questioned any attempt to clear Lattimore, and that he regarded the IPR icon as a security risk and would never have hired him at the Bureau.

	Lattimore had conferred (during the Hitler-Stalin pact) with the Soviet ambassador about Lattimore's upcoming assignment as President Roosevelt's adviser to Chiang-Kai-Shek  then trying to fend off the Communist revolution in his country.
	Credible testimony revealed "five episodes" wherein Lattimore  within the Politburo of the Communist Party  "participated as a full participant in the conspiracy."
	*A former brigadier-general in the Soviet military intelligence testified to having been told that "Lattimore was one of our men."*
	On page 218 of the McCarran committee's voluminous report of its year-long investigation, this bottom line: "[T]he subcommittee can come to no other conclusion but that Lattimore was for some time beginning in the 1930s a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy."
The documented truth about the McCarthy investigations





4. Possibly you don't realize that the China we see today, *Communist China, is the result of Lattimore and Institute of Public Relations advising in favor of Mao and agaist Chaing KaiShek.*

'Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin repeatedly criticized IPR and its former chairman Philip Jessup. McCarthy observed that Frederick V. Field, T.A. Bisson, and Owen Lattimore were active in IPR and claimed that they had worked to turn American China policy in favor of the Communist Party of China.'
Institute of Pacific Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 21, 2013)

Perhaps the issue is how angry folks do get about communism.

Stalin was a monster...

We had troops fighting against his side as early as the Russian Revolution so naturally he distrusted the west.

If you support the Red Scare, does that mean you think the Communist Party should be banned from the U.S.?  A socialist party?


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Perhaps the issue is how angry folks do get about communism.
> 
> Stalin was a monster...
> 
> ...



I understand why you would wish to change the focus of the discussion, as your side is being thoroughly thrashed.

I don't care to; I have a specific purpose with this OP, and, based on how poorly your side is doing, I seems pretty clear that I've won.

My premise is that Senator Joseph McCarthy performed the role he set out for himself, i.e., he revealed how poor a job the Roosevelt administration did in preventing spies, paid agents and supporters of virulent communists/Soviet  from controlling and dictating government policy and reporting to Stalin.
FDR actually promoted same when they were revealed.

He acted against said individuals in the United States government.

His accuracy has been proven over time.

The smears and libels have been against the Senator, not by him.



Now...if you wish to begin a thread called "If you support the Red Scare,...." 

...go for it.





As an aside, your comment "so naturally he (Stalin) distrusted the west." proves beyond doubt that you have been infected, are biased, and 

....are the perfect example of a dupe.

I suggest you read "Dupes: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century" [Hardcover]
Paul Kengor (Author)


I feel certain that you'll find your name in there.....


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...





You are a fraud.

You selected Trumbo as your champion.

I proved that he was guilty as charged....

...and, his case was not related to Senator McCarty.




I am disappointed in your lack of character.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...






You reveal abject ignorance of the subject about which you claim strong opinions by suggesting that Martin Ritt had anything to do with Senator Joseph McCarthy.


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## NoNukes (Feb 21, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You did not prove the criteria of the challange, and you know that I have you with Martin Ritt. I accept your capitulation and ignore your lack of character.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...





Disgusting attempt to hide your lack of character.

Ritt was not involved with McCarthy.


McCarthy's committee in the Senate, the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which he chaired for less than two years, had a specific duty to investigate communism in t*he federal government and among government employees*


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## Truthmatters (Feb 21, 2013)

and hyped it for political gain


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

Truthmatters said:


> and hyped it for political gain








Heck, I was sure you'd support the hero, Senator McCarthy.....after all, truth matters, doesn't it?


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 21, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



It's a shame that Progressive can't learn anything new. Once they are taught something, no facts can change it


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 21, 2013)

An Ode to Luissa, Editec, Toronado, Konny, NoNoodles, Ms.Truthie:

An Arab stood on the weighing machine
In the light of a lingering day.
A counterfeit penny he slipped in the slot....

And silently stole a weigh.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 21, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps the issue is how angry folks do get about communism.
> ...



Oh no.  Earlier I admitted the Soviets were spying on us as we were spying on them.

Figuring out the limits of your acceptable witch hunt was my new goal.

I will say the Japanese should not have been put in internment camps.  You will say.....?


Or do you have no opinion on if certain political parties should be legal.  Don't be shy.  Communism sucks.  

As a Conservative I know you could care less if the socialist party wins elections?????


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## Political Junky (Feb 21, 2013)

McCarthy was a drunk and died of liver disease at 48.


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## NoNukes (Feb 22, 2013)

Political Junky said:


> McCarthy was a drunk and died of liver disease at 48.



If he killed himself drinking at such an early age, you know that he was not just drinking casually in his time off.


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## editec (Feb 22, 2013)

What this debate and the attempts by some self proclaiming republicans to apologise for Tail gunner Joe is REALLY showing us is how much the GOP has changed since the mid 50s.

The GOP quite rightly and much to its credit, sanctioned this drunken bully.

But todays radically ignorant cons don't have a clue what that GOP was really all about.

That GOP truly was a nationalist movement that loved this nation.

Not at all like today's typical GOPer


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## gipper (Feb 22, 2013)

editec said:


> What this debate and the attempts by some self proclaiming republicans to apologise for Tail gunner Joe is REALLY showing us is how much the GOP has changed since the mid 50s.
> 
> The GOP quite rightly and much to its credit, sanctioned this drunken bully.
> 
> ...



Yes Tailgunner Joe as a drunk and a bully, but he was RIGHT.  Will you concede that his warnings about commies who infiltrated D administrations was RIGHT?

Funny how you blame the GOP, when it was the Ds who allowed Stalin to essentially know much of what our government was doing...all thanks to those two idiots FDR and Truman.  Will you place any blame on those two fools or is it all the GOP's fault?


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## konradv (Feb 22, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Totally unproven allegations that have been repeatedly contradicted by the facts.  Apparently running over the innocents continues into the present and is the reason why we need to be on guard against revisionists of every stripe.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 22, 2013)

Political Junky said:


> McCarthy was a drunk and died of liver disease at 48.



Thank you for providing the "Cat In The Hat" level of analysis.

Keep up the good work.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 22, 2013)

konradv said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
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You are as burned as Edgar Winter on an Ecuadorian beach!

Yours is the kind of post one writes when confronted with a mountain of evidence....but has the fear of appearing to know nothing.

lush analytic frameworksmashing crescendoagain, a fanatics ideology trumps his intellect

You know nothing.
And worse....in trying to hide the fact that you have been co-opted by Left-wing propaganda, you have been self-identified as both ignorant and dishonorable.



The half-dozen of you have yet to provide even one.....one!...." innocent run over" by the great Senator McCarthy.

*Not one!!!*




As a wise wag said:  

"Not facts, nor data, nor experience, nor rational debate will convince Liberals."

Once the disease has infected you.....Liberalism.....there seems to be no recovery for the weak.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 22, 2013)

editec said:


> What this debate and the attempts by some self proclaiming republicans to apologise for Tail gunner Joe is REALLY showing us is how much the GOP has changed since the mid 50s.
> 
> The GOP quite rightly and much to its credit, sanctioned this drunken bully.
> 
> ...





1. If you are including moi in "some self proclaiming republicans..." you would be more accurate to specify 'conservative.'
I favor the US Constitution.

a. To be clear as to the distinction, read Codevilla's new article in Forbes. In fact, I may even post it for your edification.



2. And as for "to apologise (sic) for Tail gunner Joe" you appear either less than articulate, or lacking comprehension.

The OP is not an apology....it is hagiography.



3. I certainly agree "how much the GOP has changed since the mid 50s," but you might also mention how, over the period, the Democrat party has altered it's essence from the party of segregation and slavery to the vassal of the Far Left.

This, in fact, is the reason that Democrats hate the great Senator McCarthy: he exposed their affection for communism.

Don't you agree?


I expect more from you.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 22, 2013)

The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated


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## konradv (Feb 22, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You're just spouting right wing propaganda.  The facts prove otherwise, if you dared to check into what really happened and not cherry-pick your info.


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## gipper (Feb 22, 2013)

konradv said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



Can you outline the facts for us oh great one?  Just saying so means nothing, you must prove your position with FACTS.  Do you have any or are you merely a propagandist or a dupe for the Left?


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## NoNukes (Feb 22, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > McCarthy was a drunk and died of liver disease at 48.
> ...



In other words, you are correct and she has no intelligent reply, so resort to a childish, stupid insult.


----------



## NoNukes (Feb 22, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated



We have named victims of this witch hunt that was headed by McCarthy. Even if he was not on both committees, his name is synonymous with these attacks. How many Americans can name any of the others politicians involved in these witch hunts?


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## konradv (Feb 22, 2013)

gipper said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Read the thread.  I'm not going to spoon feed you over and over again.  The reasons for what I said were already given.  Just because some chose to keep believing false info, doesn't make it anymore right.  Allegations don't rise to the level of proof, no matter how much you want it to be so.


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## Luissa (Feb 22, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated



It doesn't matter if they were ruined or not, he falsely accused them with no evidence to back them up. You okay with that sort of thing?


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 22, 2013)

Luissa said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated
> ...



Accused who?

Can you stop your mindless spewing of Liberal Talking point and think for 10 seconds


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 22, 2013)

Luissa said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated
> ...



"he falsely accused them with no evidence"


Names?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



Fine fine fine. I will go hunt during craps and post from my phone.

If you will be honest enough to answer (and you usually are)

What counts as guilty?  

Being a spy?

Having gone to a socialist meeting?

Being an actor and talking about helping he poor?

Set the bar for me.


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## gipper (Feb 22, 2013)

konradv said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



I went through the entire thread and you offered nothing to refute the facts laid out in the OP.  PC is the only one to provide documented credible sources proving her position.  

The Venona Papers confirmed McCarthy's accusations were correct FUCKING years ago.  Why do you refuse to accept the truth, when it is right in front of you?  

Could be that since Joe was so BIG and so MEAN, that he could not possibly be right?  Since you leftists "think" with your emotions (how do you do that anyway?), that big meanie Joe McCarthy.....he is so....like ah so....like ah nasty and mean....boohoo

....said with a limp leftist wrist.....


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

gipper said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



Wow.  Settle down lol.

What is the bar here we are trying to meet as I asked above?

Ruined as in suicide?

Black listed?

Guilty as in being an actual spy?  

Or guilty of being a socialist or having been to a meeting or known one?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

Ok, I'm bored.

Does the Johnny Got His Gun blacklistdd writer Dalton Trumbo count?

Seems his career and life were negatively afftected.  

He was a Communist for some time.  As a Conservative I note few remarks of him doing anything illegal.

He was a pacifist but seems to have had second thoughts on that.  But man, after writing the book which inspired the Metallica crown jewel I might even be a pacifist lol.

So if he is up for consideration I vote he was hurt.  But I fear the OP and others may feel his political leanings make that acceptable?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

In these waters does the National Lawyer's Guild or membership in it count as a reason to be McCarthied?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...




Got it.  Being a law abiding member of a political party makes him guilty.  May I apologize for misunderstanding your views.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 22, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



So you don't have the name of one single innocent individual ruined by McCarthy?

Not Zero Mostel? Woody Allen? Owen Lattimore? John Stewart Service? No one?


----------



## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

Haldore Hanson, 80, Chronicler Of China and Victim of McCarthy - NYTimes.com

This is actually fairly interesting to me.

McCarthy did mostly figure out who was actually a member of the socialist party in the 30's.  I mean the FBI may have told everyone or it may have been public knowledge.

My apologies for running up the post count.  Darned cell posting while riding around.

I am gonna post a few more.  Tomorrow I will be too busy to respond for a bit so post away back at me.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



Hey, don't be overly critical here.  I keep asking for the yardstick of guilty and ruined.  Set either far enough one way or another and even Ann Coulter will be hung lol.  So just set me straight why don't ya!


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 22, 2013)

John Stewart Service was probably more a defeatist than a real Communist in regards to China.  He lost a couple jobs and got rehired but never promoted.

He's another one who was suspected before McCarthy called him out a bit too publicly.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> John Stewart Service was probably more a defeatist than a real Communist in regards to China.  He lost a couple jobs and got rehired but never promoted.
> 
> He's another one who was suspected before McCarthy called him out a bit too publicly.



Um, no. John Stewart Service was a real spy


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

Progs were trained to hate McCarthy and froth at the mouth at the mention of his name because they were told that he used his HUAC to create a "Red Scare" (the timing of this Red Scare was curious: 6 months after the USSR tried to start WWIII with the Berlin Blockade, and 6 months before the ChiCom gave NoKO the go ahead to start killing US solders) and ruin the lives of the innocent.

What happens when you can't name a single innocent, when you see the Communists themselves started the Red Scare, when you realize it was McCarthy that was slandered and lied about?

It is the people who named up McCarthyism that are the liars


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## gipper (Feb 23, 2013)

Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s.  They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.  

They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government.  Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.

That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives.  It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 23, 2013)

Facts were shown in this thread that McCarthy was a liar and do-nothing congressman. What he represents is antithetical to the true American spirit. One need not be 'leftist' to see this, and being accused of that is merely an excuse for lack of refutation.


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## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Ok, I'm bored.
> 
> Does the Johnny Got His Gun blacklistdd writer Dalton Trumbo count?
> 
> ...



I brought his name up, but they are claiming that he was not directly hurt by McCarthy. That is like saying that Hitler was not responsible for what his associates and henchmen were doing, and doing in the name of Germany.


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## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

gipper said:


> Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s.  They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.
> 
> They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government.  Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.
> 
> That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives.  It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.



McCarthy and his associates went too far and hurt anyone in their way, innocent or guilty.


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## gipper (Feb 23, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s.  They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.
> ...



Maybe so, but why do you fail to recognize that commies HAD infiltrated our government?  JM identified them.  Why demonize him?  Why not demonize the commie spies?


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## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Progs were trained to hate McCarthy and froth at the mouth at the mention of his name because they were told that he used his HUAC to create a "Red Scare" (the timing of this Red Scare was curious: 6 months after the USSR tried to start WWIII with the Berlin Blockade, and 6 months before the ChiCom gave NoKO the go ahead to start killing US solders) and ruin the lives of the innocent.
> 
> What happens when you can't name a single innocent, when you see the Communists themselves started the Red Scare, when you realize it was McCarthy that was slandered and lied about?
> 
> It is the people who named up McCarthyism that are the liars



We have been naming them. You guys are just going off with your revisionist history.


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## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

gipper said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



We demonize both. Those of us on the left can do more than one thing at a time.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

gipper said:


> Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s.  They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.
> 
> They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government.  Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.
> 
> That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives.  It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.



They don't ignore it, they support it


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> Facts were shown in this thread that McCarthy was a liar and do-nothing congressman. What he represents is antithetical to the true American spirit. One need not be 'leftist' to see this, and being accused of that is merely an excuse for lack of refutation.



What did he lie about?

He was understated in his assessment that State and the White House were overrun with Communist spies


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## gipper (Feb 23, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



I have NEVER seen liberals or leftists condemn the commie spies.  NEVER and that includes this thread.  But you are very good at condemning anyone who speaks out and names names.


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## gipper (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s.  They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.
> ...



Yes some do...the really hard core leftist will.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I'm bored.
> ...



Once Libs are taught something, even 2+2=5, they can never unlearn it.

Trunbo had NOTHING to do with Joe McCarthy, NOTHING

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING


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## there4eyeM (Feb 23, 2013)

For those with a short memory or haven't read the thread, this from earlier posts and unanswered:

"From Wikipedia:
"It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]

He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time."

Some hero."



there4eyeM said:


> More heroicism:
> 
> "In his campaign, McCarthy attacked La Follette for not enlisting during the war, although La Follette had been 46 when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He also claimed La Follette had made huge profits from his investments while he, McCarthy, had been away fighting for his country. In fact, McCarthy had invested in the stock market himself during the war, netting a profit of $42,000 in 1943. La Follette's investments consisted of partial interest in a radio station, which earned him a profit of $47,000 over two years."


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## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

gipper said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



We are good at pointing out when something is wrong in the government, yes. 

The fact that these communist spies were bad is a given for Americans, this thread is about McCarthy.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 23, 2013)

gipper said:


> [
> I went through the entire thread and you offered nothing to refute the facts laid out in the OP.  PC is the only one to provide documented credible sources proving her position.
> 
> The Venona Papers confirmed McCarthy's accusations were correct FUCKING years ago.  Why do you refuse to accept the truth, when it is right in front of you?
> ...



Except the people that McCarthy accused were not named in Venona... 

A lot of these people were just on the wrong side of the political argument.


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## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



It was all part if the witch hunt. Whose name is synonymous with that witch hunt?


----------



## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > John Stewart Service was probably more a defeatist than a real Communist in regards to China.  He lost a couple jobs and got rehired but never promoted.
> ...



From this?

" Eventually FBI investigators broke into in the offices of*Amerasia, and found hundreds of government documents, many labeled "secret," "top secret," or "confidential," Service was arrested as a suspect.[10]*None of the documents Service gave Jaffe were classified; the documents the government found with various labels of classification were given to Jaffe by others.[citation needed]*Nevertheless, FBI Director*J. Edgar Hoover*wrote that he thought he had an "airtight case" against Service.[11]*However, when the Justice Department submitted its evidence to a Federal Grand Jury, they elected to indict Jaffe, but refused to indict Service by a vote of 20 - 0."

Wiki quote there.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Haldore Hanson, 80, Chronicler Of China and Victim of McCarthy - NYTimes.com
> 
> This is actually fairly interesting to me.
> 
> ...



This probably got lost in all the replies.  Was this Hanso. fella a spy also?  I'll meet you in the middle on the Service fella.

Oh, and I can not find your reply with the goal posts I.am trying to kick through here.  What counts as ruined or guilty?


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## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



Please do not confuse things with the facts.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



I used his guy to try to figure out the ground rules here for "guilty".  Thats fine.

FWIW Conservapedia is harder on Service.  Of course you should read the crazy discussion thread going on in their back pages about how to present or hide McCarthy's alcoholism.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



Because you've been lied to your entire life.

Grow up and get educated


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## konradv (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



You're just making an attempt at revising history.  Not going to work.  The videos don't lie.  People at the time knew he was out of control and any good he did by pointing out Communists was more than offset by the harm he was doing to the social fabric of the country.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 23, 2013)

What? No one denies Joe lied about his service record and lied about his political opponent? No one wishes to acclaim this individual for this courage and valor?


----------



## NoNukes (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



Prove that I have been lied to. 

You are just spewing right wing revisionist history.


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## regent (Feb 23, 2013)

The one individual McCarthy hurt most was McCarthy. He died in disgrace and his name has become a symbol for everything American's dislike in loudmouth polticians.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 23, 2013)

regent said:


> The one individual McCarthy hurt most was McCarthy. He died in disgrace and his name has become a symbol for everything American's dislike in loudmouth polticians.



1. "The one individual McCarthy hurt most was McCarthy."

So very glad you've decided to testify for the defense.



2."...his name has become a symbol for everything American's dislike..."

Only those Americans who fail to research, and would rather have others do their 
thinking for them......as has been demonstrated in this thread.

Don't you agree?


----------



## PoliticalChic (Feb 23, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> What? No one denies Joe lied about his service record and lied about his political opponent? No one wishes to acclaim this individual for this courage and valor?



Thank heaven that Barack never "lied about his political opponent."!
Heck....where would we be then???



As a book reviewer commented:

Senator Joe McCarthy confronted government officials concealing communist involvement and excessively lax security with regards to Communists in sensitive U.S. Government posts. In many cases he was on target, with over 81 of the names he gave the Tydings committee resulting in resignations or movement of security risks. 

Given that over 200 of the spies uncovered in the Venona decrypts were never identified, we can only speculate as to the national security impact of removing Communists from key DoD and State Dept posts. 

Arthur Herman, author of "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator," says that the accuracy of *McCarthy's charges "was no longer a matter of debate," that they are "now accepted as fact." *

And The New York Post's Eric Fettmann has noted: "growing historical evidence underscores that, *whatever his rhetorical and investigative excesses - and they were substantial - McCarthy was a lot closer to the truth about Communism than were his foes."*


----------



## PoliticalChic (Feb 23, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> Facts were shown in this thread that McCarthy was a liar and do-nothing congressman. What he represents is antithetical to the true American spirit. One need not be 'leftist' to see this, and being accused of that is merely an excuse for lack of refutation.



 Logic is not your strong suit, is it.  If he were  a "do-nothing congressman" the Left wouldn't have tried so hare to destroy him.....would they?


----------



## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > Haldore Hanson, 80, Chronicler Of China and Victim of McCarthy - NYTimes.com
> ...



Hey hey.  Does this guy count and what are our yardsticks for guilt and ruined again?

Sorry to yell and all that


----------



## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

I am being impatient I know.  Just I have about ten minutes over lunch here for concentration.


----------



## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

Hey, I found a source which claims the galaxy is seven thousand years old and that McCarthy did and did not accuse Harold Shapely (of globular cluster fame) of being a communist.  

Is he one of the 57 or not?  I assume he was as it was part of the larger article with citations.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



Haldore Hanson....

Interesting.

"Does this guy count."

Well, if he was as the NYTimes suggests....states....certainly counts as an 'innocent run over by McCarthy."

What the heck would I do then?



But what if the NYTimes is dissembling? 
What if it isn't telling the truth about Haldore Hanson?


What would your response be? 
Would you agree that everything I've said about the Senator is true?

That you've been lied to, mislead, propagandized?
Interesting question, huh?


Is Haldore Hanson the definitive example, one way or the other?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



I don't even know what yardstick of guilty and ruined he has to meet.  Is the NY Times full of it?

If I seem like a Haldore Hanson expert I have some DDT to sell ya.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



I'm wondering why you seem to be avoiding the question.

After all, you selected Hanson....not I.

That seems to suggest that his nomination would offer support for your view of McCarthy.


I simply ask....what if it doesn't.

And you begin to tap dance.


Strange.


If the NYTimes....the voice of Liberalism....misinformed about Hanson....well...
...what should you suspect about the attacks on McCarthy...???


Stand erect, or be made to stand erect.
Marcus Aurelius


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



No really.  I just tried finding a list of McCarthy victims and then checked Conservipedia to see who the most anti communist folks I could think of accused of anything.  

That led me tk.skme entertaining reading on conservipedia not wanting to mention alcoholism but nothing else.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

konradv said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



No, it's setting the record straight.

You see how absurd it is that you Liberals run into this thread making accusations about McCarthy, none of which you can back up

You have no idea what McCarthy actually said, all you "know" is that his HUAC ruined "innocent people"

And you haven't named one single innocent person ruined by McCarthy

You might want to take a moment and reflect on what happened in this threqad


----------



## PoliticalChic (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



The NYTimes published many articles by Duranty during the Stalin genocide of the Ukrainians.....
...and accepted a Pulitzer for covering for Stalin.
"For some fourteen years Walter Duranty, then the most famous and respected foreign correspondent in the world  also, as it happens, a Brit  hitewashed the repressive evil deeds of the Soviet Union, leading to that countrys recognition by none other than Franklin D. Roosevelt, while winning a 1932 Pulitzer Prize for his efforts."
The Walter Duranty Prizes - By Patrick Brennan - The Corner - National Review Online


Here's the lowdown on Hanson.

1.	Before joining the State Department, Haldore Hanson, had been a reporter in China for the Associated Press in the 30s. At that time he had written a book on Maos communist guerrillas called Humane Endeavor, which supported same, and spoke glowingly of their democratic revolution in Yenan, and of Mao as  the most selfless man I had ever met, and a genius fifty years ahead of his time.

2.	He had been employed by Owen Lattimore at Pacific Affairs, along with numerous pro-communist journalists, putting the best face on communism in China, and attempting to have the United States support same in opposition to the Chang KaiShek nationalists.

3.	Louis Budenz had *identified him as a member of the Communist Party *in testimony before the Tydings Committee.

a.	Louis Francis Budenz (July 17, 1891  April 27, 1972) (Pronounced "byew-DENZ") was an American activist and writer, as well as a Soviet espionage agent and head of the Buben group of spies. He began as a labor activist and became a member of the Communist Party USA.[1] In 1945 Budenz renounced Communism and became a vocal anti-Communist, appearing as an expert witness at various governmental hearings and authoring a series of books on his experiences. Louis F. Budenz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4.	General Conrad Snow, chairman of the State Department Loyalty-Security Board, studied McCarthys charges and evidence about Hanson, and* Snow stated that the charges were not, in fact, baseless. In fact, Snow concluded that none of McCarthys represented unfounded smearing of individuals.*
Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of Americás Most Hated Senator By Arthur Herman, p. 187-188.

a. Snow never fired anyone. He allowed suspects to quit or retire. When Hiram Bingham took over as chairman, he found The place was full of Alger Hsses. See The Cold War Romance of Lillian Hellman and John Melby, by Robert P. Newman, p. 221-222


Compare the above with the NYTimes whitewash.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

Ok. So if our bar is:

Open to communist/socialist ideals yet not convicted of being a spy

and

Was not ruined enough to commit suicide

then I hope McCarthy was 100% right.  It seems he copied some FBI sources and yelled alot and socialist were not difficult to find after the great depression.

Am I about right on the bar?  My description is unduely short I fear.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Ok. So if our bar is:
> 
> Open to communist/socialist ideals yet not convicted of being a spy
> 
> ...



Gee....after offering Hanson as your poster boy....

Now you seem to forget all about him.



Let's take a gander at two 600 lb. gorillas in the room:

1. Throughout the thread, I've challenged you slanderers of McCarthy to name any innocent ruined by the Senator....and none of you have been able to do so.

Yet....none seem able to draw the obvious conclusion.
He must have been correct.


2. And the second 'gorilla'...any honest participant would comment on how the last few posts have destroyed the credibility of the most prominent leader of Left wing thought, the NYTimes......

....and muse on what must be true of lesser McCarthy attackers.


Yet....these considerations seem unworthy of comment by you and others.


Strange, huh?



Pod People are like that.....


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFnSxeDfENk]Invasion of the Body Snatchers - Official Trailer [1956] - YouTube[/ame]


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> Ok. So if our bar is:
> 
> Open to communist/socialist ideals yet not convicted of being a spy
> 
> ...



Amazing how you know McCarthy's HUAC blacklisted people but are real short on specifics


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok. So if our bar is:
> ...



PC, your reading comprehension skills must be worked upon if you read my posts that way.  He is not someone I have an emotional childhood attachment to whih would make him my hero or nuttin.

IMO your bar is set too low.  Remember six pages ago when I started asking about that?

Hanson was some guy I Conservipediad, remember that comment?  I made a joke about it?

But yeah, if your bar is that low McCarthy was hopefully 100% in his accusations.   What more do you want me to say?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok. So if our bar is:
> ...



Frankiepoo.  Answer the tough question about what bar of standards you hold for this.  I asked a half dozen times.  Perhaps I keep missing your reply or I am being too polite to get one?


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



Why do I have to set any bar?  You're the one who's convinced that McCarthy's HUAC blacklisted people, give us some names. 

The ones you threw out so far either had NOTHING to do with Joe McCarthy or were real Communist spies, back before they took over the Democrat Party, when it was serious stuff

You were as convinced that McCarthy's HUAC blacklisted people as you were that Einstein was a great scientist. Where's the McCarthy e=mc^2?


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Toronado3800 said:
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Frank..... perhaps we are having two different conversations.  If Hanson's non conviction but accusation was guilt in your eyes then you are 100% correct.

I had a page that said Stewart was found innocent.  You say he was guilty.  You would think he at least qualifies as suspicious and meets your standars then?

So by your bar McCarthy is a hero and 100% right.  Am I more conservative?  I think so but then again I am one of them who wonders about the Patriot Act so that does not make you unusual in your opinion.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 23, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Toronado3800 said:
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I did not think the "acceptable level of guilt" question was that tricky btw.  I just got pissed when no one would say "party members" or "convicted of espionage" or "voted for FDR" LOL or whatever.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 23, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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Hanson and Stewart were definitely playing for the other team.


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## NoNukes (Feb 24, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Toronado3800 said:
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What if you are full of it. Hmmmm. What if everything that you believe in is false?


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## there4eyeM (Feb 24, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > What? No one denies Joe lied about his service record and lied about his political opponent? No one wishes to acclaim this individual for this courage and valor?
> ...



Your whimsy is not up to usual, 'Chic. I'm disappointed. You respond to your own ghosts, not my posts.

Your equating Obama's lying to McCarthy's a) does nothing to exonerate 'Tailgunner' and b) infers that I am somehow a fan of the current president and, thus, attackable about veracity. Wrong on both counts is at least consistent, however.

But the best is that side dancing to another issue rather than confronting the clear evidence of your boy's misbehavior.

To address your next _maladresse_, the do-nothing charge was about service to constituents, not national grandstanding.

Wake up and smell the Koolaid, 'Chic; with heros like this guy, you don't need villains.


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## editec (Feb 24, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> For those with a short memory or haven't read the thread, this from earlier posts and unanswered:
> 
> "From Wikipedia:
> "It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]
> ...



Chickenhawks rightwingers  on this board whine about STOLEN VALOR all the time.

But when they encounter a perfect example of it in one of their heros?

Well, then, that's okay.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 24, 2013)

editec said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > For those with a short memory or haven't read the thread, this from earlier posts and unanswered:
> ...



So you gave up producing that "List of Innocents Ruined by McCarthy" and are now back to character assassination

Oh and ask the Democrat Senator from CT if he still has Nam Flashbacks


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 24, 2013)

Progs: We hate McCarthy because he used his HUAC to Start a Red Scare and Blacklist innocent people like Owen Lattimore!

Facts: McCarthy had nothing to do with the HUAC and Lattimore was a Soviet asset

Progs: We hate McCarthy


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Toronado3800 said:
> ...



Wow....NoNoodles is getting angry.....

Means I'm getting to you, huh?

You're realizing that everything you've imbibed is false.

*Post #187 shows what a lying rag the NYTimes is .....*

So who ya' gonna believe now?


Oh...right: you'll still believe the NYTimes, 'cause that's what Pod People....Liberals....do.



I love it.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

editec said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > For those with a short memory or haven't read the thread, this from earlier posts and unanswered:
> ...





We you Libs start to run from "McCarthy ruined innocent Americans by smearing them with no evidence"...

...to "McCarthy was mean! He was a meanie!!!!"


...it shows what non-thinking robots you are.
The truth is coming out......just not from you.


BTW....being 'mean' to 'em is the least I want for America-haters.

A host of other right-wing Republicans had sought to dramatize the communism issue, but *only McCarthy succeeded.* And McCarthy succeeded while the others did not in part *because of his thoroughgoing contempt for the rules of political controversy. * 
Michael Paul Rogin, The Intellectuals and McCarthy: The Radical Specter, p. 251

He forced liberals to explain themselves in full view of the American people. So they made McCarthy the issue.
And still do.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 24, 2013)

So, it is agreed he lied and did nothing for his constituency and that this is a basis for admiration.


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## NoNukes (Feb 24, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> NoNukes said:
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Not at all mad, and you never 'get to me', darling. I just think that people who believe in their infallibility might be fools.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 24, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


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So was Hanson ever found guilty of anything?  Or are we just quoting whoever gave McCarthy the idea to chase Hanson around?

Look, something had to set Joe off on these folks.  Some source he thought was credible.  

I fear the cause for the disagreements is the level of proof various posters want.  Those who "hate the reds more" have a more liberal, pro big government view.  The small government lovers say "no conviction, McCarthy ruined this man for nothing".  

That is why I kept asking about the where the bar of guilt was.  

If no conviction is necessary then there is some evidence against all these folks which big brother lovers can use against them and McCarthy is right unless he pulled names from a telephone book.  (remember those?)


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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1. "So was Hanson ever found guilty of anything?"
Was O.J. guilty?


For your edification:

2. The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, Witness, Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and from any human point of view, the pact was evil. 

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelts assistant Secy of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, *naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelts administration, *including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f---  himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of Americas Most Hated Senator, p. 60) 

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss. Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented  four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) 

And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.



3. Democrat perfidy: President Roosevelt laughed off the charges against Hiss.  Dean Acheson, then undersecretary of Treasury, not only vouched for Hiss and his brother, Donald, also charged by Whitaker, but Acheson immediately requested Donald as his assistant. 

Right on cue, *the press vilified HUAC for persecuting Hiss.* President Truman denounced the Hiss investigation as a red herring by do-nothing Republicans (Whitaker Chambers, Witness, p. 564-74) *Felix Frankfurter and Adlai Stevenson offered to be character witnesses for Hiss. *(McCarthy began referring to Stevenson as Alger Stevenson.)  Eleanor Roosevelt said she believed Hiss. 

But the American public listened to the hearings, and they believed Chambers: a Gallup poll found 4 out of 5 supported the HUAC.
(Alan Weinstein, "Perjury," p. 58) 
And the poll included 71% of Democrats who also agreed- just not the Democrat Party!


Yet....steeped in half a century of Liberal propaganda, folks like you are unable to recognize truth.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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"What if everything that you believe in is false?"
Did you notice that I provided sources?
Didn't matter to you, did it.
Mind like a steel trap...but a rusted closed one.



" I just think that people who believe in their infallibility might be fools."
Well, if that reflects your slander of Senator McCarthy, it is certainly true.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 24, 2013)

My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.


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## Vandalshandle (Feb 24, 2013)

McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

Vandalshandle said:


> McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!



Could you explain the "harm"?

Based on your posts....I'll accept small words.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.



Contemptible is your subjective judgement....

...I've yet to see you apply that to Obama....or Reid..etc.

Now for your attempt at obfuscation:

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 24, 2013)

Vandalshandle said:


> McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!



Progs: We hate McCarthy because he used his HUAC to Start a Red Scare and Blacklist innocent people like Owen Lattimore!

Facts: McCarthy had nothing to do with the HUAC and Lattimore was a Soviet asset

Progs: We hate McCarthy


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

Vandalshandle said:


> McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!



Just curious.....would a dolt like you have any clue as to why Agnew was elected in his home state?

Here, let me help:

For 100 years, the Democrat Party was the party of segregation and slavery. In fact, the Republican Party was formed in exact opposition: to fight segregation and slavery.


Now, get this:

'It is interesting that one reason that Nixon chose Spiro Agnew as VP, was that he had passed some of the nations first bans on racial discrimination in public housing- before federal laws. He had beaten Democrat segregationist George Mahoney for governor of Maryland in 1966.'
Coulter, "Mugged."


Bet you  didn't know that, did you.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 24, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.
> ...



This thread was started about McCarthy (not Reid or..what's the other guy's name again?). If you wish to now redefine it to exclude anything that refutes your position, you may do so (to your embarrassment). It is not my job to equally praise or criticize anyone or anything. I doubt you'll see me defending much that is essentially Republican or Democrat.

At least you accept that this man, the subject of this thread that you started, was a miserable character and no one to look up to, even if (big if) he was right that boogey men were in the closet.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 24, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
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The thread proves that there was no "if."

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.


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## CrusaderFrank (Feb 24, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
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> > there4eyeM said:
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Well he was right and in fact understated about the boogey man in the closet because those were the people who convinced FDR to support Mao over Shek and surrender Eastern Europe to Uncle Joe Stalin

See, it mattered


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## there4eyeM (Feb 24, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> there4eyeM said:
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Sure....


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 25, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
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For all the McCarthy opponents in the thread, although the weight of the argument is clearly against what they propound....

....there is a massive resistence to overcome in admitting they were wrong.

But you.....I'll bet that you'll think about things that you learned about which you were unaware.
And may even- in the privacy of your own thoughts- reconsider things you came in most certain of.

'Sure' of.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 25, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
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I learned some folks here and a writer named Ann have a pretty liberal definition of the word guilty.

But hey, set your bar low, set big government loose on a witch hunt and you can claim a victory.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 25, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> there4eyeM said:
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Now before you get all excited in blind constitution tearing fury read me out.

Stalin was a monster like I said.  The cold war was real.

Spies were all over the place.  We were fighting Russia all over the place.

Heck, starting before the Commies were in power we were fighting them.  Go look up some unit histories if you don't believe me.  (seperate incarnations of the HMS Erebus shelled both our and Russian revolutionaries oddly enough) Even the Brits were in on it.

I just don't think Europe in 45 was a good battle for us.  Korea against the newly formed Chinese went poorly enough.  Maybe we could have nuked Amsterdam in August of 45 to pull pressure off our troops in Dunkirk.  Man, that is another five years of an unsure war between the west and Russia after the world was at war for a decade of the previous three.  

FDR, more Truman, had faith our system would winout and it did.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 26, 2013)

Luissa said:


> McCarthy isn't a hero, he ruined people's lives. Owen Lattimore's career was ruined and he even left the country.
> He accused a lot of innocent people, and even went after the Army.
> You guys seem to forget the lives of innocent people he destroyed.



Um, honey, Owen Lattimore's career SHOULD have been ruined, because he wasn't innocent.  He was guilty.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 26, 2013)

Luissa said:


> What about people like Lena Horne etc?
> McCarthy was not a hero, he was a dangerous fool who destroyed many people lives, and our government allowed him to. You should be ashamed of yourself for even defending what he did to many innocent people.
> Oh! And Psst, it's not illegal to be a communist.



1)  What does Lena Horne have to do with McCarthy?

2)  Pssst!  No one ever said it WAS illegal to be a Communist, but thank you so very much for the straw man.  McCarthy wasn't investigating CRIMES, you dimwit.  He was investigating security leaks in the government.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 26, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> Did McCarthy do anything else in his career than chase script writers? What programs did he achieve for his constituency?



Did McCarthy do any "chasing script writers" in his career, or are you just a dumbass who doesn't know jack shit about McCarthy?

That's a rhetorical question.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 26, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> From Wikipedia:
> "It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]
> 
> He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time."
> ...



Some source.  Wikipedia?  Why not just wear a t-shirt that says, "I'm a gullible fucking moron" and be done with it?


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 26, 2013)

Luissa said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Really?  How can you be "speaking of McCarthyism" when you're talking about things that happened before McCarthy ever took office . . . NITWIT?



Luissa said:


> No where did I state he was involved. I am using them as examples of what his way of thinking and your way of thinking causes. And what his crusade caused?



What part of "Thread about Joseph McCarthy, asked to name specific people whose lives Joseph McCarthy ruined, started babbling about Lena Horne" makes you think - and as always, I use the term loosely when I refer to that farrago that takes place inside your head - you "weren't stating he was involved""?  If he wasn't involved, you ignorant sow, what the fuck are you doing bringing it up AT ALL?

His crusade couldn't have "caused" anything with the Hollywood blacklisting, insofar as it took place BEFORE MCCARTHY EVER TOOK OFFICE.  It's called "linear time", and is clearly beyond your comprehension . . . as so many things are.



Luissa said:


> And you don't think McCarthy had anything to do With Arthur Miller? He went after the radio host, you don't think he had them go after Miller?
> 
> And what about Owen Lattimore? He was cleared of everything, but he lost work due to McCarthy falsely accusing him.



Unsurprisingly, since it's something that YOU said, this is competely, totally, and laughably wrong.



Luissa said:


> So I will be clearer. His ideas and his witch hunt ruined people's lives. And if you think he had nothing to do with the house committee you are very naive.



So I will be clearer.  The more you talk, the more of an ignoramus you appear to be.  And if you think a SENATOR had fuck-all to do with a HOUSE investigation that took place BEFORE HE TOOK OFFICE - there's that "passage of time" thing that so confuses both of your brain cells again - you're . . . well, you're Luissa, which pretty much says it all.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 26, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...



In order to "accept a capitulation", you would first have to be correct, and as usual, you're talking out of your ass.  You don't "have" anyone with Martin Ritt, shitforbrains.

Even the leftist-worshipped Wikipedia knows that Martin Ritt had exactly two things to do with Joseph McCarthy:  fuck and all.

_After working as a playwright with the Works Progress Administration, acting on stage, and directing hundreds of plays, Ritt became a successful television director.
In 1952, Ritt was acting, directing, and producing teleplays and television programs when he was caught up by the Red Scare and investigations of communist influence in Hollywood and the movie industry. Although not directly named by the *House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC)*, Ritt was mentioned in an anti-communist newsletter called Counterattack, published by American Business Consultants, a group formed by three former FBI agents.
Counterattack alleged that Ritt had helped Communist Party-affiliated locals of the New York-based Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union stage their annual show. Also cited was a show he had directed for Russian War Relief at Madison Square Garden. His associations with the Group Theater, founded on a Russian model, and the Federal Theater Project (which Congress had stopped funding in 1939 because of what some anti-New Deal congressmen claimed to be a left-wing political tone to some productions), were also known to HUAC. He was finally blacklisted by the television industry when a Syracuse grocer charged him with donating money to Communist China in 1951._

House Un-American Activities Committee.  Wait, what position did McCarthy hold with the US government?  Senator, wasn't it?

I don't need your fucking surrender, because you were just conquered.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 26, 2013)

NoNukes said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Progs were trained to hate McCarthy and froth at the mouth at the mention of his name because they were told that he used his HUAC to create a "Red Scare" (the timing of this Red Scare was curious: 6 months after the USSR tried to start WWIII with the Berlin Blockade, and 6 months before the ChiCom gave NoKO the go ahead to start killing US solders) and ruin the lives of the innocent.
> ...



"Revisionist history"?  You mean like blaming a SENATOR for the actions of a HOUSE committee?  THAT sort of revision?


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## there4eyeM (Feb 26, 2013)

there4eyeM said:


> From Wikipedia:
> "It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]
> 
> He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time."
> ...



Proud to be 'negged for the above by the poster identified as 'something1200', a weak individual who finds facts counter to his/her preconceptions intolerable.

Childish and petty.

Somewhat like McCarthy. Guess it's from 'heros' such as he that the 'person' got it.


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## PoliticalChic (Feb 26, 2013)

Toronado3800 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
> ...



What our instruction provided was proof that Senator McCarthy ruined no innocents, and performed the heroic task of shining the light on day both on enemies in government, and on the Liberals who were letting those enemies find comfort.


If you haven't learned that, then you are far less intelligent than I had believed.


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## Toronado3800 (Feb 26, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Perhaps our disagreement is rising from a difference in political philosophy.

You want to be labeled as a conservative but for some reason get quite liberal with this whole judicial guilt issue. (and a Reagan love but that was another post)

Me, I am all over the place and thus free to have opinions of right and wrong.  Guns, love em.  Human rights, love em, keep governemnt out of my bedroom.

Change your slogan and join me!


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