# Time for bow and arrow control



## Stryder50 (Oct 14, 2021)

5 dead, 2 injured in random bow and arrow attack​Five people were killed and two others injured in an apparently random attack in Kongsberg, Norway, late Wednesday as a man roamed the city shooting people with a bow and arrow.
...




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						5 dead, 2 injured in random bow and arrow attack
					





					www.msn.com
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a test of course.  Some might clue the hidden message here.


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## Manonthestreet (Oct 14, 2021)

Not random annnnddd.........it's a radical muslim








						5 killed, 2 injured attack in Norway, suspect named in terrorist attack
					

A man killed five people and injured two others Wednesday in the Norwegian town of Kongsberg, authorities said.




					www.wsoctv.com


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## g5000 (Oct 14, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> 5 dead, 2 injured in random bow and arrow attack​Five people were killed and two others injured in an apparently random attack in Kongsberg, Norway, late Wednesday as a man roamed the city shooting people with a bow and arrow.
> ...
> 
> 
> ...


If only he had access to a rifle.  Then he could have mowed down 69 people like white supremacist Anders Behring Breivik.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 14, 2021)

g5000 said:


> If only he had access to a rifle.  Then he could have mowed down 69 people like white supremacist Anders Behring Breivik.


If the victims had been armed, he could have been stopped.


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## g5000 (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> If the victims had been armed, he could have been stopped.


Like they stopped Anders Behring Breivik?

Like they have stopped every mass shooting?  Any mass shooting?


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 14, 2021)

g5000 said:


> Like they stopped Anders Behring Breivik?
> 
> Like they have stopped every mass shooting?  Any mass shooting?


They were unarmed, too.  See a pattern?


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> If the victims had been armed, he could have been stopped.



If the victims had been armed, they might, or they might not have stopped this. The US has much worse, when people have access to guns. 

AND the US has a much higher daily murder rate. Norway has a murder rate of 0.47, the US has a murder rate of 4.97. 

Do you really think Norway is stupid enough to trade a 0.47 murder rate for one ten times higher, in exchange for this one attack not happening?


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> They were unarmed, too.  See a pattern?



US cops, armed cops, are much more likely to die in the line of service than British cops.

What does that tell you?









						2022
					

So far this year, 209 law enforcement officers have died in the line of duty.




					www.odmp.org
				




49 cops have died in the US this year from gunfire. If that were the UK, it'd be 10 cops (1/5th the population size). 

That number takes you back to 2007 in the UK. And that's including ALL cops who are killed even if they're not on duty. Includes a police officer who collapsed, and only three of these were from guns.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 14, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> If the victims had been armed, they might, or they might not have stopped this. The US has much worse, when people have access to guns.
> 
> AND the US has a much higher daily murder rate. Norway has a murder rate of 0.47, the US has a murder rate of 4.97.
> 
> Do you really think Norway is stupid enough to trade a 0.47 murder rate for one ten times higher, in exchange for this one attack not happening?


There's a 100% chance that an unarmed victim will be defenseless in an active shooter scenario.  I'd rather take my chances being armed.

Gun ownership doesn't cause people to commit murder.  This incident proves that killers will always find a way.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 14, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> US cops, armed cops, are much more likely to die in the line of service than British cops.
> 
> What does that tell you?
> 
> ...


We have 10x more people in the US.  Of course we'll have more crime.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> There's a 100% chance that an unarmed victim will be defenseless in an active shooter scenario.  I'd rather take my chances being armed.
> 
> Gun ownership doesn't cause people to commit murder.  This incident proves that killers will always find a way.



You want to discuss statistics huh? 

You'd rather take your chances being armed. That's fine. You stay in American. Meanwhile the Norwegians will see one death for every ten deaths the US has. Literally, for those five people killed, the US will have seen fifty people die. 

I didn't say gun ownership causes people to commit murder. 

However easy access to guns does empower people. The US has, for a long time, developed a more aggressive lifestyle, and with that people are more likely to resort to killing.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> We have 10x more people in the US.  Of course we'll have more crime.



This is per capita dude. I even explained this in the post. The UK has 1/5th the population of the US, so if 50 cops die in the US, you'd expect 10 cops to die in the UK. 

DOESN'T HAPPEN.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 14, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> This is per capita dude. I even explained this in the post. The UK has 1/5th the population of the US, so if 50 cops die in the US, you'd expect 10 cops to die in the UK.
> 
> DOESN'T HAPPEN.


Mexico has A lot fewer guns and way more murders, per capita.  Guns don't cause people to commit murders.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 14, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> You want to discuss statistics huh?
> 
> You'd rather take your chances being armed. That's fine. You stay in American. Meanwhile the Norwegians will see one death for every ten deaths the US has. Literally, for those five people killed, the US will have seen fifty people die.
> 
> ...


Since the US is so dangerous, you make a great argument in favor of gun ownership.


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## g5000 (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> They were unarmed, too.  See a pattern?


I sure do see a pattern.  Your fantasy of armed citizens stopping mass shootings is a delusion.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Mexico has A lot fewer guns and way more murders, per capita.  Guns don't cause people to commit murders.



Again, I told you before, I didn't say guns cause people to commit murder. 

If you're going to try and change what I say every time, there's no point in this conversation.

Mexico has problems the US and Norway don't have. The reality is that Norway has a murder rate 1/10th that of the US for a reason.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 14, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Since the US is so dangerous, you make a great argument in favor of gun ownership.



The US is dangerous because of policies in place. Norway isn't so dangerous because of policies in place. 

Your argument for the US being dangerous is to keep it dangerous because it's dangerous.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 15, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> The US is dangerous because of policies in place. Norway isn't so dangerous because of policies in place.
> 
> Your argument for the US being dangerous is to keep it dangerous because it's dangerous.


What policies?  I'm not arguing that the US is dangerous.  You are.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 15, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Again, I told you before, I didn't say guns cause people to commit murder.
> 
> If you're going to try and change what I say every time, there's no point in this conversation.
> 
> Mexico has problems the US and Norway don't have. The reality is that Norway has a murder rate 1/10th that of the US for a reason.


Then, why are you insisting that guns be highly regulated and banned?


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 15, 2021)

g5000 said:


> I sure do see a pattern.  Your fantasy of armed citizens stopping mass shootings is a delusion.


You have zero evidence that I'm wrong.


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## Stryder50 (Oct 15, 2021)

EXCERPT:
...
*Firearm injuries are a serious public health problem.* In 2019, there were 39,707 firearm-related deaths in the United States – that’s about 109 people dying from a firearm-related injury each day. Six out of every 10 deaths were firearm suicides and more than 3 out of every 10 were firearm homicides.


*More people suffer nonfatal firearm-related injuries than die*. Seven out of every 10 medically treated firearm injuries are from firearm-related assaults, and 2 out of every 10 are unintentional firearm injuries. There are few intentionally self-inflicted firearm-related injuries seen in hospital emergency departments. Most people who use a firearm in a suicide attempt, die from their injury.


*Firearm injuries affect people in all stages of life.* Firearm-related injuries are among the 5 leading causes of death for people ages 1-64 in the United States.


*Some groups have higher rates of firearm injury than others.* Males account for 86% of all victims of firearm death and 87% of nonfatal firearm injuries. Rates of firearm violence also vary by age and race/ethnicity. Firearm homicide rates are highest among teens and young adults 15-34 years of age, and among Black, American Indian/Alaskan Native, and Hispanic populations. Firearm suicide rates are highest among adults 75 years of age and older and among American Indian/Alaskan Native and non-Hispanic white populations.
...




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						Fast Facts: Firearm Violence Prevention |Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC
					

What is a firearm injury? Learn fast facts of firearm violence from the CDC Injury Center.




					www.cdc.gov
				



Red highlight by me.

The USA has a greater racial and ethnic diversity than most all nations on Earth.  It is this diversity which is a contributing factor to the social friction (source of crime and violence) one finds in the USA.  
Note I said, "contributing", as there are other factors that apply as well.


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## Stryder50 (Oct 15, 2021)

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows​ 
How many lives are actually saved by gun ownership?
...
Gun Effectiveness​
I checked online and found some fascinating numbers. A good website with footnotes and references to authoritative sources is _GunFacts.info_. There I learned the following:



Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
60 percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. Forty percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. 
Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.
Fewer than 1 percent of firearms are used in the commission of a crime.

If you doubt the objectivity of the site above, it’s worth pointing out that the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day.


Another excellent source of information on this topic (and many more current issues) is the Gun Control page at *JustFacts.org*. (Full disclosure: I serve on the board of directors of JustFacts because I believe in the organization’s objectiveness, accuracy, and integrity.)


Defensive Gun Use​
In “Defensive Gun Use is More Than Shooting Bad Guys,” James Agresti, founder and president of JustFacts, provided overwhelming evidence from multiple sources showing that defensive gun use is more common and effective than anti-gun fanatics like _The New York Times_ suggest or will admit. Agresti says that “people who use a gun for defense rarely harm (much less kill) criminals. This is because criminals often back off when they discover their targets are armed.”


John Lott, author of the book, “More Guns, Less Crime,” is president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, another outstanding source for info on this subject. He writes:




> By 66 percent to 32 percent, economists and criminologists answer that gun-free zones are “more likely to attract criminals than they are to deter them.” A 60 percent to 40 percent margin thinks that guns in the home do not increase suicides. And a 62 percent to 35 percent spread says that guns are used in self-defense to stop crime more often than in the commission of crime.



This may explain why even _The New York Times_ hasn’t yet put a billboard up by its offices that screams, “This is a Gun-Free Zone. There are No Guns Here.”
...





						Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows | Lawrence W. Reed
					

The Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be as high as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. And there is plenty more evidence showing that guns keep...



					fee.org


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## Stryder50 (Oct 15, 2021)

I would like to see a law where everyone whom advocates for NO personal ownership of firearms/guns was required to wear a 3 inch wide yellow armband on each arm so if they should every be the victim of a violent crime, or shooting, I will know they do not want me to use my concealed carry firearm to defend them.

Perhaps we need to cull the herd of these idiots whom think guns/firearms are the main source of violence and assaults?


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## Stryder50 (Oct 15, 2021)

Manonthestreet said:


> Not random annnnddd.........it's a radical muslim
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Irony is that many call Fundamental(literal) Islam "Radical".
Per not only the Koran, but also the Haddith and Surra (other Islamic scriptures/dogmas) the more non-Islamic believers=Infidels one kills, the higher the Level and rewards a Muslim will receive in Allah's Paradise (Heaven after life).  Hence this Jihadist thinks he will be gaining in his afterlife for what he did.

This concept is the key factor driving of Islamic Jihad and War Upon the West(Non-Muslims).  Killing non-Muslims/Infidels will get one greater rewards and status in the AfterLife of Muslim theology.


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## Mac-7 (Oct 15, 2021)

g5000 said:


> If only he had access to a rifle. Then he could have mowed down 69 people like white supremacist Anders Behring Breivik.


Yeah right

Only 5 people killed without using a firearm is just peanuts, right?


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 15, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> What policies?  I'm not arguing that the US is dangerous.  You are.



The gun policies that allow easy access to guns, the policies that led to inner city ghettos, the policies that lead to all this crime. 

This is a complex issue. Sometimes it's even a mindset.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 15, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Then, why are you insisting that guns be highly regulated and banned?



Because countries similar to the US are much safer when people don't have easy access to guns.


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## 2aguy (Oct 15, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> You want to discuss statistics huh?
> 
> You'd rather take your chances being armed. That's fine. You stay in American. Meanwhile the Norwegians will see one death for every ten deaths the US has. Literally, for those five people killed, the US will have seen fifty people die.
> 
> ...



Comparing Norway to the U.S is just stupid.  They have almost zero issues woth migrant crime …. Yet …..but Right next door Sweden has become a shooting gallery and their immigrant gangs like to throw grenades at each other…..so sell the lie that gun  control works to joe biden voters


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## 2aguy (Oct 15, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Because countries similar to the US are much safer when people don't have easy access to guns.



Those countries are now seeing increased gun crime as their illegal drug trade gangs become more and more violent.  But in Europe the criminals prefer fully automatic military rifles and grenades….voth are illegal in Europe… but the criminals get them easily.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 15, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Because countries similar to the US are much safer when people don't have easy access to guns.


Safer?  You know a British MP got knifed in a church today.  Right?  When's the last time a member of Congress was murdered?  Leo Ryan, in 1978?  That didn't even happen in the US.  So, I guess the winner is RFK, in 1968.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 15, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> The gun policies that allow easy access to guns, the policies that led to inner city ghettos, the policies that lead to all this crime.
> 
> This is a complex issue. Sometimes it's even a mindset.


Policies don't create crime.  A crime is a conscious decision, made by the person committing the crime.


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## g5000 (Oct 16, 2021)

Mac-7 said:


> Yeah right
> 
> Only 5 people killed without using a firearm is just peanuts, right?


Compared to what the white supremacist did with a rifle, it's a huge improvement.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 16, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Safer?  You know a British MP got knifed in a church today.  Right?  When's the last time a member of Congress was murdered?  Leo Ryan, in 1978?  That didn't even happen in the US.  So, I guess the winner is RFK, in 1968.



And yet the UK is much safer anyway.

Your argument is like "It's raining here, therefore it always rains here". 

The US has a murder rate like 5 times higher than the UK's murder rate. That's a fact that matters. How many Congressmen and women have to have armed protection? Hardly any do in the UK.


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## frigidweirdo (Oct 16, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Policies don't create crime.  A crime is a conscious decision, made by the person committing the crime.



They actually do. Just because a crime is a conscious decision, doesn't mean policies don't lead to increase or decreases in crime.









						Crime in London - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Let's take London's crime rate. London held the Olympics in 2012. One thing they did was to increase money being spent on sport.

In 2003 the murder rate was a high 3.0 per 100,000 people. 

By 2012 it was 1.3

Since then the Tories have taken money from the police, have reduced funding for sport and education, and what happened? Crime has risen again. 

Crime is at different levels in different places and different times, because of policies made.

You get millions of people making decisions, you expect to see similar statistics. So why do more people make murderous decisions in the US than the UK? Why did more people do it in London in 2003 than in 2012?


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## 2aguy (Oct 16, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> Because countries similar to the US are much safer when people don't have easy access to guns.



They arent similar moron……Britain currently has an out of wedlock birth rate of 48%.  In the U.S. African American community the out of wedlock birth rate is about 75%………it is young black males in democrat party controlled cities leading the gun crime and murder wave…..young black males are about 7% of the population….and commit well over 50% of the murders in this country, with the bulk of murder victims being other young black males.

Get back to us when Europe has those stats.

Normal Americans from unbroken homes are not shooting people….even with 600 million guns in private hands and over 21.4 million Americans carrying guns in public for self defense.

What you shitheads never understand is that European countries were destroyed by World War 2…….their cultural decline was put on hold because of the war….our cultural decline, led by democrat party policies that led to the 75% out of wedlock birth rates for black Americans began in the 1960s.  That is when our violent crime first spiked…dipshit.

Our entire history we had access to lots and lots of guns….yet the violent crime only spiked after the breakdown of the two parent home.


Now, dumbass..European social welfare states have wrecked their families to the point their young males are turning to gangs and crime….and they are starting to shoot each other more and more…no matter what their gun control laws say.

Also, idiot….they have imported millions of immigrants from 3rd world war zones where they do not value western culture, western norms, and they do not fear western cops.   They are the ones importing more and more guns to protect their illegal drug turf..

These criminals……no matter what gun control laws they have….prefer fully automatic military weapons and grenades ……..they tend not to use them as often…..yet…..but they have them and use them……

Look at Sweden….Sweden of all places…………AK-47s and grenades…….to the point Denmark closed its border with Sweden to keep the violence out of Denmark

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/world/europe/denmark-border-sweden.html…..

You and the other anti-gun asshats don’t understand human history or human nature….that makes you irresponsible and dangerous….just look at the American cities you completely control.


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## 2aguy (Oct 16, 2021)

g5000 said:


> Compared to what the white supremacist did with a rifle, it's a huge improvement.



You mean the Muslim at the Pulse Night club?  Or the Asian guy at Virginia Tech?  

Or the Muslim with the rental Truck….in Nice, France who killed more people with a rental truck than any mass shooter in the U.S. with a gun?   86 people killed with a rental truck……so, we should ban rental trucks….right?


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## 2aguy (Oct 16, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> And yet the UK is much safer anyway.
> 
> Your argument is like "It's raining here, therefore it always rains here".
> 
> The US has a murder rate like 5 times higher than the UK's murder rate. That's a fact that matters. How many Congressmen and women have to have armed protection? Hardly any do in the UK.



Moron….Britain had a lower murder rate when they were allowed to have guns……..gun access had nothing to do with their murder rate.

You are so fucking blinded by your fixation on guns you can’t see truth,facts or reality…and that is why you and the other idiots running democrat party cities have turned them into hell holes.


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## Mac-7 (Oct 16, 2021)

g5000 said:


> Compared to what the white supremacist did with a rifle, it's a huge improvement.


Yes, I suppose so

But in France a couple of years ago a muslim terrorist killed dozens of people with a truck

Which means it doesnt take a gun to be a mass murderer


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## Circe (Oct 16, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Since the US is so dangerous, you make a great argument in favor of gun ownership.


Darn right! And that's the answer everyone sensible is taking from these Muslim crime events. And the crazies. We have to be able to defend ourselves, so we're buying guns and ammo.


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## 2aguy (Oct 16, 2021)

Mac-7 said:


> Yes, I suppose so
> 
> But in France a couple of years ago a muslim terrorist killed dozens of people with a truck
> 
> Which means it doesnt take a gun to be a mass murderer




87 people in about 5 minutes of driving...more people killed with that truck than any mass public shooter in the U.S. with a gun......

And yet the anti-gun extremists do not call for banning rental Trucks...


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## Mac-7 (Oct 16, 2021)

2aguy said:


> 87 people in about 5 minutes of driving...more people killed with that truck than any mass public shooter in the U.S. with a gun......
> 
> And yet the anti-gun extremists do not call for banning rental Trucks...


And if libs in Denmark ban bows and arrows the next crazy will use an auto

Or poison

Whatever it takes


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## g5000 (Oct 16, 2021)

2aguy said:


> You mean the Muslim at the Pulse Night club?  Or the Asian guy at Virginia Tech?
> 
> Or the Muslim with the rental Truck….in Nice, France who killed more people with a rental truck than any mass shooter in the U.S. with a gun?   86 people killed with a rental truck……so, we should ban rental trucks….right?


The Pulse night club shooter and the Va Tech shooter both used guns and thus achieved a higher body count than they would have with a bow and arrow.

I fail to see your point.


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## g5000 (Oct 16, 2021)

Mac-7 said:


> Yes, I suppose so
> 
> But in France a couple of years ago a muslim terrorist killed dozens of people with a truck
> 
> Which means it doesnt take a gun to be a mass murderer


You don't hear about mass murders by truck very often.  But we have mass shootings at least once a week here in MAGAland.


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## 2aguy (Oct 16, 2021)

g5000 said:


> The Pulse night club shooter and the Va Tech shooter both used guns and thus achieved a higher body count than they would have with a bow and arrow.
> 
> I fail to see your point.



A Muslim using a rental truck in Nice, France murdered 86, more than the Pulse and Virginia tech combined….so you want trucks banned too…right?


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## 2aguy (Oct 16, 2021)

g5000 said:


> You don't hear about mass murders by truck very often.  But we have mass shootings at least once a week here in MAGAland.



No, moron, we don’t.

We had 12 in 2019, and 2 in 2020, 10in 2018……

Over 330 million people in the country and 12 nuts in 2019.

Can you see how dumb you are with numbers like that?


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## Mac-7 (Oct 17, 2021)

g5000 said:


> You don't hear about mass murders by truck very often.


True

Guns are the preferred choice of mass murderers in the US

But mass murder is the result of mass insanity brought on by our modern liberal society

Take away the guns and you still have crazies with a grudge against humanity


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## Smokin' OP (Oct 17, 2021)

Stryder50 said:


> I would like to see a law where everyone whom advocates for NO personal ownership of firearms/guns was required to wear a 3 inch wide yellow armband on each arm so if they should every be the victim of a violent crime, or shooting, I will know they do not want me to use my concealed carry firearm to defend them.
> 
> Perhaps we need to cull the herd of these idiots whom think guns/firearms are the main source of violence and assaults?





2aguy said:


> 87 people in about 5 minutes of driving...more people killed with that truck than any mass public shooter in the U.S. with a gun......
> 
> And yet the anti-gun extremists do not call for banning rental Trucks...


It was 86.
So, From his 32nd-floor suites in the Mandalay Bay Hotel Stephen Paddock, fired more than 1,000 bullets, killing 60 people[a] and wounding 411, with the ensuing panic bringing the number of injured to 867.

Were 867 people injured with the rental truck? (202)


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## 2aguy (Oct 17, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> It was 86.
> So, From his 32nd-floor suites in the Mandalay Bay Hotel Stephen Paddock, fired more than 1,000 bullets, killing 60 people[a] and wounding 411, with the ensuing panic bringing the number of injured to 867.
> 
> Were 867 people injured with the rental truck? (202)




Yes...the guy with the rental truck actually murdered more people than the shooter in las vegas......and most of the injured people were injured by the stampede...not the  shooting...

All of the 434 injured by the truck...were injured by the Truck....

22,000 people......and he killed 60.  Injuring by gun fire 411.

The rental truck killed 86, and injured 434......

You have no argument against banning Trucks.


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## Smokin' OP (Oct 18, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yes...the guy with the rental truck actually murdered more people than the shooter in las vegas......and most of the injured people were injured by the stampede...not the  shooting...
> 
> All of the 434 injured by the truck...were injured by the Truck....
> 
> ...


No.
Why would you think people would want to ban trucks?


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## Turtlesoup (Oct 18, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> If the victims had been armed, they might, or they might not have stopped this. The US has much worse, when people have access to guns.
> 
> AND the US has a much higher daily murder rate. Norway has a murder rate of 0.47, the US has a murder rate of 4.97.
> 
> Do you really think Norway is stupid enough to trade a 0.47 murder rate for one ten times higher, in exchange for this one attack not happening?


First off, the stats are kept different in the US from Europe-----Secondly, they don't have Chicago, Detroit etc which is why we have a higher murder rate.


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## 2aguy (Oct 18, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> No.
> Why would you think people would want to ban trucks?




Because of their potential to murder a lot of people...more people were murdered in Nice, France....86, than in any mass public shooting with guns in the U.S........they are mass murder machines.


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## Smokin' OP (Oct 18, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Because of their potential to murder a lot of people...more people were murdered in Nice, France....86, than in any mass public shooting with guns in the U.S........they are mass murder machines.


Mass murder machines?
Then, of course we must ground all planes too.
265 people died just on the planes on 9/11/2001.


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## 2aguy (Oct 18, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Mass murder machines?
> Then, of course we must ground all planes too.
> 265 people died just on the planes on 9/11/2001.



According to you guys, sure.  Your logic has never been logic….it is simple emotion fueled by the desire to control other people.


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## Smokin' OP (Oct 18, 2021)

2aguy said:


> According to you guys, sure.  Your logic has never been logic….it is simple emotion fueled by the desire to control other people.


No, that's according to you.
Banning weapons with 20-60 round magazines, high velocity that shoot tumble bullets, is suddenly a mandate to ban *ALL *guns.


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## 2aguy (Oct 18, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> No, that's according to you.
> Banning weapons with 20-60 round magazines, high velocity that shoot tumble bullets, is suddenly a mandate to ban *ALL *guns.



Its one step on the way


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## Smokin' OP (Oct 18, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Its one step on the way


Sure, like when the Ford  Pinto was killing people?
They are STILL trying to ban all cars.


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 18, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Banning weapons with 20-60 round magazines, high velocity that shoot tumble bullets, is suddenly a mandate to ban *ALL *guns.


The anti-gun loons know they have to start someonwere, and think they can sufficiently prey upon the emotions orf the ignorant to garner the  support to start with 'assault weapons'.
Low-hanging fruit, as it were.

There is no sound argument for the necessity for, and efficacy of, a ban on such weapons, see...


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 18, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> The anti-gun loons know they have to start someonwere, and think they can sufficiently prey upon the emotions orf the ignorant to garner the  support to start with 'assault weapons'.
> Low-hanging fruit, as it were.
> 
> There is no sound argument for the necessity for, and efficacy of, a ban on such weapons, see...




And it is deeper than that....

If you give them "Assault weapons," you are giving them a semi-automatic weapon...that is no different in operation than any other semi-auto rifle, pistol or shotgun...you have given them the point they believe.....that semi-automatic rifles are uniquely dangerous, and if you can ban one of them, then all of them must also be banned....since the argument was already given up that they should be banned by giving them "Assault Rifles/semi-automatic rifles."

Then, they will likely come back for revolvers...since they too are "semi-automatic" weapons...

They do nothing without prior planning...


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 18, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And it is deeper than that....
> If you give them "Assault weapons," you are giving them a semi-automatic weapon...that is no different in operation than any other semi-auto rifle,


Of course.    
Everyone knows 'assautl weapons' are just the start - and if they tell you otherwise, they are lying.


----------



## frigidweirdo (Oct 18, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> First off, the stats are kept different in the US from Europe-----Secondly, they don't have Chicago, Detroit etc which is why we have a higher murder rate.



How are stats kept differently? And what difference does it make?

Or are you just throwing this out there hoping you've got something when you have no idea if you do or not? 

They don't have Chicago or Detroit.... Why don't they? Perhaps because they have sensible policies instead of policies made by people on the take?


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 19, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> The anti-gun loons know they have to start someonwere, and think they can sufficiently prey upon the emotions orf the ignorant to garner the  support to start with 'assault weapons'.
> Low-hanging fruit, as it were.


Sure it is, just like when they banned (license and registration required)  the tommy gun in 1934. 
77 years later, the US has banned almost every gun.


M14 Shooter said:


> There is no sound argument for the necessity for, and efficacy of, a ban on such weapons, see...


YES, there is.
There isn't a sound argument for the lack of sportsmanship.
Innocent people are getting killed and injured because retards can't shoot.
Why do the morons need 20-60 round magazines to wound a turtle?
It's like lighting a candle with a flamethrower.
The least the idiots could do is take a basic shooting course, instead, because they suck, they *need *those 60 rounds for shredded turtle soup.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 19, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And it is deeper than that....
> 
> If you give them "Assault weapons," you are giving them a semi-automatic weapon...that is no different in operation than any other semi-auto rifle, pistol or shotgun...you have given them the point they believe.....that semi-automatic rifles are uniquely dangerous, and if you can ban one of them, then all of them must also be banned....since the argument was already given up that they should be banned by giving them "Assault Rifles/semi-automatic rifles."
> 
> ...


Your stupidity is deeper than that.
Semi-automatic hunting rifles, pistols and shotguns don't have 20-60 round magazines.
They don't fire tumble bullets either.

'if you can ban one of them, then all of them must also be banned'.
Just like the tommy gun?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Your stupidity is deeper than that.
> Semi-automatic hunting rifles, pistols and shotguns don't have 20-60 round magazines.
> They don't fire tumble bullets either.
> 
> ...




Are you stupid? 

Tumble bullets?

Do you understand that the 5.56 round is underpowered......it is one of the weaker rounds for rifles?

And magazine capacity?  What is it in your malformed brains that focuses on magazines when it is the location of the attack that is the actual issue?

A pump action shotgun in Russia was used to murder 20 and wound 70.......with the local police station 100 yards away from the school.....the shotgun had a 5 shot capacity....you doofus.....


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 19, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Are you stupid?
> 
> Tumble bullets?
> 
> ...


I *know *you are, an idiot.

5.56 round travels at 3200 ft. per second.
'It's underpowered'?
Which means what?
It can't penetrate a Trumptards thick skull?

Location? 
Yeah, where people are at you moron.

'A pump action shotgun in Russia was used to murder 20 and wound 70'.

Of course you don't have link.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> I *know *you are, an idiot.
> 
> 5.56 round travels at 3200 ft. per second.
> 'It's underpowered'?
> ...



Moron Ive linked to it before it was as the Kerch, Russia Polytechnic school shooting .

The Navy Yard shooter used a pump action shotgun and killed 12 you idiot.

The shooter in Cumbria, England used a sawed off double barreled shot fun and a .22 bolt action rifle and killed 12.

Also, shithead….When I dont post an immediate link you morons say I didnt link, then when I oink and quote you start crying about copy and paste…..you are such pathetic excuses for human beings.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> I *know *you are, an idiot.
> 
> 5.56 round travels at 3200 ft. per second.
> 'It's underpowered'?
> ...



Moron….. you know nothing.  The 5.56 is often not allowed for hunting deer because it is under powered you moron.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> I *know *you are, an idiot.
> 
> 5.56 round travels at 3200 ft. per second.
> 'It's underpowered'?
> ...




Hey...shithead...

*The Kerch Polytechnic College massacre was a school shooting and bomb attack that occurred in Kerch, Crimea, on 17 October 2018. 18-year-old student Vladislav Roslyakov shot and killed 20 people and wounded 70 others before committing suicide. It was the deadliest school attack in the former Soviet Union since the 2004 Beslan school siege.**[2]*
*----*

*Hatsan Escort Aimguard 12 gauge pump-action shotgun[1]*









						Kerch Polytechnic College massacre - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> I *know *you are, an idiot.
> 
> 5.56 round travels at 3200 ft. per second.
> 'It's underpowered'?
> ...




Moron...

*The Cumbria shootings was a shooting spree which occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, taxi driver Derrick Bird, killed twelve people and injured eleven others before killing himself in Cumbria, England, United Kingdom. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 1996 Dunblane school massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history. The shootings ended when Bird was found dead in a wooded area after abandoning his car in the village of Boot.*


*Sawn-off**[2][3] George Fisher 12 gauge double-barreled shotgun[4]*
*CZ 452-2E ZKM .22-calibre bolt-action rifle[5]*









						Cumbria shootings - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Sure it is, just like when they banned (license and registration required)  the tommy gun in 1934.


Thank you for agreeing the ani-gun loons are going afert the low-hanging fruit.


Smokin' OP said:


> There isn't a sound argument for the lack of sportsmanship.


This is not  a sound argument for the banning of 'assault weapons'


Smokin' OP said:


> Innocent people are getting killed and injured because retards can't shoot.


This is a lie.   Accidental deaths are absolutely minuscule.


Smokin' OP said:


> Why do the morons need 20-60 round magazines to wound a turtle?


A question is not a sound argument.


Smokin' OP said:


> It's like lighting a candle with a flamethrower.


Hyperignorant hyperbole is not a sound argument


Smokin' OP said:


> The least the idiots could do is take a basic shooting course, instead, because they suck, they *need *those 60 rounds for shredded turtle soup.


This is not a sound argument for banning 'assault weapons'


> YES, there is.


This has been demonstrated a lie.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Your stupidity is deeper than that.
> Semi-automatic hunting rifles, pistols and shotguns don't have 20-60 round magazines.
> They don't fire tumble bullets either.


Um...   wut?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 19, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> I *know *you are, an idiot.
> 5.56 round travels at 3200 ft. per second.
> 'It's underpowered'?


For a great many things.
This is why many, maybe most, states will not allow its use for hunting deer or larger game.


Smokin' OP said:


> 'A pump action shotgun in Russia was used to murder 20 and wound 70'.
> Of course you don't have link.


Speaking of shotguns...
Every mass shooting in the US, save one, could have been equally perpetrated with a pump-action shotgun.


----------



## theHawk (Oct 19, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> US cops, armed cops, are much more likely to die in the line of service than British cops.
> 
> What does that tell you?


It tells me we have way too many thugs on the streets.  Harsher sentences are needed to keep our streets safe.


----------



## theHawk (Oct 19, 2021)

frigidweirdo said:


> The US is dangerous because of policies in place. Norway isn't so dangerous because of policies in place.
> 
> Your argument for the US being dangerous is to keep it dangerous because it's dangerous.


The US is dangerous because of all the minority thugs in it.  Places like Norway don’t have that problem, hence why killings are so rare.

White America’s crime statistics are very similar to Europe’s.  The difference is our diversity, which brings crime way up.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron Ive linked to it before it was as the Kerch, Russia Polytechnic school shooting .
> 
> The Navy Yard shooter used a pump action shotgun and killed 12 you idiot.
> 
> ...


Because the crime is 3 years old, in Russia, moron.
I don't trust people links anyway, so I look it up, regardless.
A three year old crime doesn't just pop up.

The *Kerch Polytechnic College massacre* was a school shooting and bomb attack that occurred in Kerch, Crimea, on 17 October 2018. 18-year-old student Vladislav Roslyakov shot and killed 20 people and wounded 70 others before committing suicide. It was the deadliest school attack in the former Soviet Union since the 2004 Beslan school siege.

Vladislav Roslyakov purchased a shotgun on 8 September and bought 150 rounds legally at a gun shop on 13 October.
 He entered the grounds of Kerch Polytechnic College on 17 October at about 11:45 a.m. and shortly after began shooting.
 A survivor of the incident said that the shooting lasted for more than 15 minutes.

'with the local police station 100 yards away from the school.....the shotgun had a 5 shot capacity....you doofus.....'

Surveillance footage of the incident shows Roslyakov wearing black trousers and a white T-shirt emblazoned with the Russian word "НЕНАВИСТЬ" (hatred) as he carries an eight-shot 12 gauge Hatsan Escort Aimguard pump-action shotgun with a pistol grip'

 A large nail-bomb was detonated during the attack, and local police said that they deactivated more explosives on the campus.

Could it be that's why the police hesitated?

15 minutes?
20 killed.
70 Injured.
Plus a bomb?

The Las Vegas shooter was firing for only 10 minutes.
With 15 minutes plus a bomb  Roslyakov  could have doubled the amount of people killed and injured, if he would have had a military style assault weapon.

'


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron Ive linked to it before it was as the Kerch, Russia Polytechnic school shooting .
> 
> The Navy Yard shooter used a pump action shotgun and killed 12 you idiot.
> 
> ...


'
The Navy Yard shooter used a pump action shotgun and killed 12'.

The *Washington Navy Yard shooting* occurred on September 16, 2013, when 34-year-old Aaron Alexis fatally shot 12 people and injured three others in a mass shooting at the headquarters of the Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) inside the Washington Navy Yard in southeast Washington, D.C. The attack took place in the Navy Yard's Building 197; it began around 8:16 a.m. EDT and ended when police killed Alexis around 9:25 a.m. It was the second-deadliest mass murder on a U.S. military base, behind the 2009 Fort Hood shooting.

Wow, around an hour and 15 minutes. 

He tried to fire at them with his shotgun but realized that he was out of ammunition; he switched to the Beretta, killing one of the men, and the other man escaped without injury.
 Reports indicated that the victim in the alleyway was hit by a "stray bullet". The shooter's use of the pistol in the alleyway led police to initially believe that a second gunman was involved.

On the day of the shooting, Washington Chief of Police Cathy L. Lanier initially said that police were searching for a white male wearing khaki military fatigues and a beret, who had allegedly been seen with a handgun, and a black male wearing olive military fatigues and carrying a long gun.
 The white male was later identified and deemed not to be a suspect. The black male was not identified.[63] At 7:00 p.m., officials ruled out the possibility of other shooters, but were still seeking one other person for possible involvement.

Around an hour and 15 minutes and confused police?

Alexis  could have done a lot more if Aaron  had a military type assault weapon with two or three 60 round magazines.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron Ive linked to it before it was as the Kerch, Russia Polytechnic school shooting .
> 
> The Navy Yard shooter used a pump action shotgun and killed 12 you idiot.
> 
> ...


'The shooter in Cumbria, England used a sawed off double barreled shot fun and a .22 bolt action rifle and killed 12'.

The *Cumbria shootings* was a shooting spree which occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, taxi driver Derrick Bird, killed twelve people and injured eleven others before killing himself in Cumbria, England.

The shootings began in mid-morning in Lamplugh and moved to Frizington, Whitehaven, Egremont, Gosforth, and Seascale, sparking a major manhunt by the Cumbria Constabulary, with assistance from Civil Nuclear Constabulary officers. Thirty crime scenes across Copeland were investigated.

That was random, not exactly a mass shooting, just a murder spree lasting from 10:13am to 12:15pm.

Two hours.
All of your responses are lame comparisons and *YEARS *apart.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Hey...shithead...
> 
> *The Kerch Polytechnic College massacre was a school shooting and bomb attack that occurred in Kerch, Crimea, on 17 October 2018. 18-year-old student Vladislav Roslyakov shot and killed 20 people and wounded 70 others before committing suicide. It was the deadliest school attack in the former Soviet Union since the 2004 Beslan school siege.**[2]*
> *----*
> ...


Yeah, you didn't mention it took 15 minutes to do it, idiot.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron...
> 
> *The Cumbria shootings was a shooting spree which occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, taxi driver Derrick Bird, killed twelve people and injured eleven others before killing himself in Cumbria, England, United Kingdom. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 1996 Dunblane school massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history. The shootings ended when Bird was found dead in a wooded area after abandoning his car in the village of Boot.*
> 
> ...


*LAME *Comparison.


----------



## Frankeneinstein (Oct 20, 2021)

g5000 said:


> I sure do see a pattern.  Your fantasy of armed citizens stopping mass shootings is a delusion.


then why did you choose to use unarmed citizens as an example instead of armed ones? the delusion is yours...you provided proof that it is the unarmed shot en masse and not the armed citizenry and then claimed it is delusional to see it that way...though loathe to admit it, I'm sure that even you can see the delusion there.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Um...   wut?


Tumbling or ricocheting on impact or shortly thereafter usually a bone or heavy muscular tissue.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> For a great many things.
> This is why many, maybe most, states will not allow its use for hunting deer or larger game.
> 
> Speaking of shotguns...
> Every mass shooting in the US, save one, could have been equally perpetrated with a pump-action shotgun.


*COULD *have, but without the same capacity as a military style assault weapon and without the bulkiness.
Don't see many shotguns used on drive-bye's.
Given their reduced muzzle energy, the shotgun (not using a slug) is worthless too, unless they are used , close range.
You aren't going to use either as a sniper.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron….. you know nothing.  The 5.56 is often not allowed for hunting deer because it is under powered you moron.


What a fucking retard.
Who would try to shoot a human, as far away as you would normally have to be, to shoot a deer?
You could kill a deer out of a deer stand with a 5.56.
Don't forget your three, 30 round magazines.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Thank you for agreeing the ani-gun loons are going afert the low-hanging fruit.


Not anti-guns, moron.
Anti gun nut who think they are entitled.


M14 Shooter said:


> This is not  a sound argument for the banning of 'assault weapons'


Pointing out a fact.



M14 Shooter said:


> This is a lie.   Accidental deaths are absolutely minuscule.


*That is a lie.*


M14 Shooter said:


> A question is not a sound argument.


Pointing out another fact, if gun nuts need 60 rounds to hit or kill something they need to reconsider their choice of weapon, maybe learn to use a slingshot first.


M14 Shooter said:


> Hyperignorant hyperbole is not a sound argument


See above.
If people cant operate the weapon responsibly, then remove the weapon.
Trumptards would take that person hunting (Dick Cheney)


M14 Shooter said:


> This is not a sound argument for banning 'assault weapons'





M14 Shooter said:


> This has been demonstrated a lie.


Sure it is, by who?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> What a fucking retard.
> Who would try to shoot a human, as far away as you would normally have to be, to shoot a deer?
> You could kill a deer out of a deer stand with a 5.56.
> Don't forget your three, 30 round magazines.




Apparently the experts don't agree with you, you dumb fuck, since the 5.56 is banned for deer hunting in a lot of states.....


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> *COULD *have, but without the same capacity as a military style assault weapon and without the bulkiness.
> Don't see many shotguns used on drive-bye's.
> Given their reduced muzzle energy, the shotgun (not using a slug) is worthless too, unless they are used , close range.
> You aren't going to use either as a sniper.



Actually, you do......what you never see in drive bys is AR-15 rifles......you idiot.

You really do know nothing about this topic...yet you keep posting on it........


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> 'The shooter in Cumbria, England used a sawed off double barreled shot fun and a .22 bolt action rifle and killed 12'.
> 
> The *Cumbria shootings* was a shooting spree which occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, taxi driver Derrick Bird, killed twelve people and injured eleven others before killing himself in Cumbria, England.
> 
> ...




Moron.....he still murdered 12 people with a bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun...you idiot.......

He picked the location of the shootings.......as I have pointed out, and you are too stupid to understand.......the weapon wasn't the deciding factor in how many died...the choice of target location was....you dumb ass......

The weapon doesn't matter, especially in the case of mass public shootings where the distance is rarely longer than the average room.......you dumbass....


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Yeah, you didn't mention it took 15 minutes to do it, idiot.




Are you really this stupid.............?

Yes.

He killed 20 people, wounded 70...with the local police station 100 yards away......

Most mass public shootings happen in less than 10 minutes....you moron.  And the sooner you get a good guy with a gun shooting or engaging the attacker, the faster the attack is stopped......


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

g5000 said:


> I sure do see a pattern.  Your fantasy of armed citizens stopping mass shootings is a delusion.



Fact, not delusion

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

*Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.*
*
Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.*

BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday *before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------*

*The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.*


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Apparently the experts don't agree with you, you dumb fuck, since the 5.56 is banned for deer hunting in a lot of states.....





2aguy said:


> Apparently the experts don't agree with you, you dumb fuck, since the 5.56 is banned for deer hunting in a lot of states.....


They were banned because dumbasses needed 30 rounds to wound it.
That was the issue, they were wounded not killed, because retards, never got shooting lessons.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Actually, you do......what you never see in drive bys is AR-15 rifles......you idiot.
> 
> You really do know nothing about this topic...yet you keep posting on it........


'Actually, you do'
You're FOS.
You're the one touting the the accodlades of the weapon.

'what you never see in drive bys is AR-15 rifles'.

Sure, I'll take your word for it.........................*NOT.*


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Are you really this stupid.............?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> ...


Fucking retard.
Trumptards and the NRA, always touting 'a good guy with gun' that never seems to be around  98% of the time.

'He killed 20 people, wounded 70...with the local police station 100 yards away'
With the belief there were bombs involved you retard, even the military would have hesitated.

He would have killed a *LOT * more if he had a 30 round magazine and a lighter weapon.
Your 'whataboutisms' isn't even debatable.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 20, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron.....he still murdered 12 people with a bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun...you idiot.......
> 
> He picked the location of the shootings.......as I have pointed out, and you are too stupid to understand.......the weapon wasn't the deciding factor in how many died...the choice of target location was....you dumb ass......
> 
> The weapon doesn't matter, especially in the case of mass public shootings where the distance is rarely longer than the average room.......you dumbass....


See above, moron.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> They were banned because dumbasses needed 30 rounds to wound it.
> That was the issue, they were wounded not killed, because retards, never got shooting lessons.



You arent even trying to hide your stupidity and ignorance… you are simply tolling at this point.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Fucking retard.
> Trumptards and the NRA, always touting 'a good guy with gun' that never seems to be around  98% of the time.
> 
> 'He killed 20 people, wounded 70...with the local police station 100 yards away'
> ...



He killed more than the Boulder shooter who had n AR-15….why?  Because in Boulder the police went right in and he stopped shooting people……it isnt the gun it is the gun free zone locaton, you idiot


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Fucking retard.
> Trumptards and the NRA, always touting 'a good guy with gun' that never seems to be around  98% of the time.
> 
> 'He killed 20 people, wounded 70...with the local police station 100 yards away'
> ...



It isnt what about when it actually happened you dipshit.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> The Las Vegas shooter was firing for only 10 minutes.


Indeed.  Expended 1100 rounds.   Killed only 59 people.
Had he made a better choice for a weapon, he could have expanded that by a factor of 5 -- maybe 10.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Tumbling or ricocheting on impact or shortly thereafter usually a bone or heavy muscular tissue.


Ah yes - the instability of the M193 round after impact.
You know that a heavier, slower bullet - like 7.62x51 - does a lot more damage -- right?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> '
> The Navy Yard shooter used a pump action shotgun and killed 12'.


Indeed.
Every mass shooting in the US - save one - could have been equally perpetrated with a pump-action shotgun.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> *COULD *have, but without the same capacity as a military style assault weapon and without the bulkiness.


The obvious point you missed:
If all (but one) of the mass shootings cperpetraed withan 'assault weapon' could have been equallp perpetraed with a pump-action shotgun, then rate of fire and magazine capacity does no thave an effect on the number of casualties in mass shootings.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Not anti-guns, moron.
> Anti gun nut who think they are entitled.


Entitled to...  exercise their right to keep and bear arms without infringement?
You bet.  Constitution says so.
Why do you hate the constitution?


Smokin' OP said:


> Pointing out a fact.


And still not a sound argument for banning 'assault weapons'


Smokin' OP said:


> *That is a lie.*


1999-2019, accidental gun deals average 612 per year.
Thus:  minuscule
And has nothing to do with a sound argument against 'assault weapons'.


Smokin' OP said:


> Pointing out another fact,


A question is not a fact, and does not constitute as sound argument against 'assault wepaons'


Smokin' OP said:


> f gun nuts need 60 rounds to hit or kill something...


Fallacy:  Straw man.


Smokin' OP said:


> If people cant operate the weapon responsibly, then remove the weapon.


20,000,000 AR15s in the US
Over the last 40 years, 16 of them have been used to kill 266 people in 'mass shootings'
That's 0.4 rifles per year, to kill 6.65 people per year.
Out of 20,000,000 guns, over 40 years.
There's no rational basis for your "if" proposition; this being the case, the "then" is moot.


Smokin' OP said:


> Sure it is, by who?


By me.   
You have not, and can not, present a sound argument against 'assault weapons' because there is none.
Thus, your statement is a lie.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 20, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> They were banned because dumbasses needed 30 rounds to wound it.


This is a lie, as it is so wrong you cannot help but be aware of it.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> It isnt what about when it actually happened you dipshit.


Yes, it is, lying, moron.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> He killed more than the Boulder shooter who had n AR-15….why?  Because in Boulder the police went right in and he stopped shooting people……it isnt the gun it is the gun free zone locaton, you idiot



The police wouldn't have if there was a suspicion of a bomb in the school.
Moron.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> You arent even trying to hide your stupidity and ignorance… you are simply tolling at this point.


Sure Q NUT.
How useful are these various kinds of AR-15's for hunting? Well, the claim that you wouldn't hunt a deer with one is only sometimes true — if, and only if, you are talking about .223 chambered AR-15's, and more critically, depending on where you live. In many states — but not all — it's not legal to hunt deer with this round because some believe the round isn't powerful enough to kill a deer, but just badly wound it. But some states allow deer hunting with .223 bullets for a variety of reasons and differing circumstances. At any rate, a .223 is perfect for small-game hunting, like coyote, fox, prairie dog, or other similar small-sized game. This is also sometimes referred to varmint hunting and many AR-15's are designed and marketed specifically as varmint hunting rifles. These typically have longer barrels to give the bullet better accuracy at the longer ranges typically involved when hunting this kind of game.

So while many AR-15's are chambered for .223 (5.56 metric), they can also be chambered for .204 Ruger, 5.7x28, .243 WIN, .260 REM, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.8SPC, 7mm, .30 REM, 7.62x39, .308, .338 Lapua, .338 Federal, .450 Bushmaster, .458, .50 Beowulf, .50 BMG and even 9mm, .40 and .45ACP handgun cartridges.

2 days of back and forth, you are a waste of my time.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 21, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> This is a lie, as it is so wrong you cannot help but be aware of it.


See above.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 21, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Indeed.
> Every mass shooting in the US - save one - could have been equally perpetrated with a pump-action shotgun.


*Could *have been but not equally, they don't have the same capacity.
Granted you could change magazines in 5 seconds, times 6 but imagine if you didn't have change them but twice.
More efficient in that regard.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 21, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> The obvious point you missed:
> If all (but one) of the mass shootings cperpetraed withan 'assault weapon' could have been equallp perpetraed with a pump-action shotgun, then rate of fire and magazine capacity does no thave an effect on the number of casualties in mass shootings.


See above.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 21, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Entitled to...  exercise their right to keep and bear arms without infringement?
> You bet.  Constitution says so.
> Why do you hate the constitution?


Sure, what militia do you belong to?
Break out your musket.



M14 Shooter said:


> And still not a sound argument for banning 'assault weapons'


You're opinion.


M14 Shooter said:


> 1999-2019, accidental gun deals average 612 per year.
> Thus:  minuscule
> And has nothing to do with a sound argument against 'assault weapons'.


You're opinion.


M14 Shooter said:


> A question is not a fact, and does not constitute as sound argument against 'assault wepaons'
> 
> Fallacy:  Straw man.


You're opinion.


M14 Shooter said:


> 20,000,000 AR15s in the US
> Over the last 40 years, 16 of them have been used to kill 266 people in 'mass shootings'
> That's 0.4 rifles per year, to kill 6.65 people per year.
> Out of 20,000,000 guns, over 40 years.
> ...


You're opinion.

Take it up with the courts, theirs is the only one that matters.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 21, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> *Could *have been but not equally, they don't have the same capacity.
> Granted you could change magazines in 5 seconds, times 6 but imagine if you didn't have change them but twice.
> More efficient in that regard.




Shithead.....do you even do any actual research....

Magazine capacity has no impact on mass public shootings, you doofus........

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary  Kleck :: SSRN

*I.*

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings? 
========
*In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading. 

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========*

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading. 


*LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings. *

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

 There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload. 

*In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change. 


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.*
*
--------
*
We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

 LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

 Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


 For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1). 

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

 Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011. 

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

 Specifically, we searched for 

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession, 

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine, 

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident, 

(4) the types of guns possessed, 

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident, 

(6) the number of rounds fired,

 (7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter. 

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

 We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


 Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper. 

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----



-----

The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds. 

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents. 

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines. 

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents. 

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children. 

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded. 

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

 If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

 On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading. 

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 21, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> *Could *have been but not equally, they don't have the same capacity.


Aside from LV, what mass US mass shooting comitted with an 'assault weapon' could not have been equally perpetrated -- that is, the same number of people killed - with a pump action shotgun - and why?
The "and why" is what matters here, BTW.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 21, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> See above.


Your repsonse is meaningless.
I accept your concession.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 21, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Sure Q NUT.
> How useful are these various kinds of AR-15's for hunting?


Funny how you answer your own question, and negate your own position.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 21, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> See above.


Your response is meaningless.
I accept your concession.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 21, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Sure, what militia do you belong to?
> Break out your musket.


Ah.  You are (willfully) ignorant of the fact the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms is unrelated to service in the militia.
And thus, my response stands.
So does my question:  Why do you hate the constitution?
And another question:
Why do you believe the law abiding are NOT entitled to.exercise their right to keep and bear arms without infringement?


Smokin' OP said:


> You're opinion.
> You're opinion.
> You're opinion.
> You're opinion.


"YOUR" opinion.
Your inability to provide a meaningful response forces me to accept your concession of the points made.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Shithead.....do you even do any actual research....
> 
> Magazine capacity has no impact on mass public shootings, you doofus........
> 
> ...


Even your own evidence proves my point idiot.

'On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds'.

*IF *they fire their guns every 2-4 seconds.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

Depends?
Typically?

'It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire'.

Every situation in mass shooting is different, slightly or obvious.
To claim a weapons bullet capacity is definitely not a factor is ridiculous.

You think magazine capacity is a non-factor to this guy?


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 22, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Aside from LV, what mass US mass shooting comitted with an 'assault weapon' could not have been equally perpetrated -- that is, the same number of people killed - with a pump action shotgun - and why?
> The "and why" is what matters here, BTW.



The 2019 Dayton shooting in Ohio
Investigators are working through evidence as they grapple with the aftermath of the deadly shooting in downtown Dayton, Ohio, and what it means to have citizens armed with powerful weaponry.
The suspected shooter, identified by police as 24-year-old Connor Stephen Betts, allegedly carried out the massacre with a .223-caliber rifle that he legally purchased.
Evidence is still being collected, but if all of the shooter's magazines were full at the time of the shooting, the suspect would have had "a maximum of 250 rounds in his possession at the time" of the shooting. He added that investigators have found "at least 41 spent shell casings".
On Sunday, officials said that 30 seconds after the gunman fired the first shots, he was killed by an officer in front of the Ned Peppers bar.
41 Shots fired, 9 dead, 27 injured in under 30 seconds?

On February 14, 2018, an expelled student entered Parkland, Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and opened fire, killing 17 people and wounding 17 others, in what became the deadliest shooting at a high school in United States history.

In all, Cruz’s attack lasted less than four minutes and left 17 dead. 


In the *Sutherland Springs church shooting*, Devin Patrick Kelley shot and killed dozens of people at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas on November 5, 2017. Kelley killed 25 people and wounded 22 others before dying of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. 

Around 11:20 a.m., Kelley stepped out of the SUV, wearing black tactical gear, a ballistic vest, and a black face-mask featuring a white skull, and wielding a Ruger AR-556 semi-automatic rifle.

Inside, he yelled, "Everybody dies, motherfuckers," as he proceeded up and down the center aisle and shot at people in the pews. Police found 15 empty magazines capable of holding 30 rounds each. Authorities stated Kelley fired approximately 700 rounds during the estimated 11 minute long shooting.
 According to investigators, the shooting was captured on a camera set up at the back of the church to record regular services for uploading online. The footage shows Kelley methodically shooting the victims, pausing only to reload his rifle.

700 rounds in 11 minutes?

'The "and why" is what matters here, BTW'.
*OK.*


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 22, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Funny how you answer your own question, and negate your own position.


Funny how it didn't.

So while many AR-15's are chambered for .223 (5.56 metric), they can also be chambered for .204 Ruger, 5.7x28, .243 WIN, .260 REM, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.8SPC, 7mm, .30 REM, 7.62x39, .308, .338 Lapua, .338 Federal, .450 Bushmaster, .458, .50 Beowulf, .50 BMG and even 9mm, .40 and .45ACP handgun cartridges.

So the *stock * AR-15 has be be modified to kill a deer, but not a human.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 22, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Ah.  You are (willfully) ignorant of the fact the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms is unrelated to service in the militia.
> And thus, my response stands.


So, go out and buy a Howitzer, a 50. cal. and a RPG.


M14 Shooter said:


> So does my question:  Why do you hate the constitution?


Just the gun nuts that take advantage of and twist it to suit their needs.



M14 Shooter said:


> And another question:
> Why do you believe the law abiding are NOT entitled to.exercise their right to keep and bear arms without infringement?


Gun nuts, that's why.
Who needs 4500 rounds and 60 weapons?


M14 Shooter said:


> "YOUR" opinion.
> Your inability to provide a meaningful response forces me to accept your concession of the points made.



No, it doesn't.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Even your own evidence proves my point idiot.
> 
> 'On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds'.
> 
> ...




Get back to us when a mass public shooter uses a crew served, tripod mounted, belt fed, fully automatic machine gun.....you moron.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Get back to us when a mass public shooter uses a crew served, tripod mounted, belt fed, fully automatic machine gun.....you moron.


Holy fuck you're a moron, just the way your fat, orange, dear leader loves his cult.

That wasn't the point, you ignorant imbecile.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> The 2019 Dayton shooting in Ohio
> Investigators are working through evidence as they grapple with the aftermath of the deadly shooting in downtown Dayton, Ohio, and what it means to have citizens armed with powerful weaponry.
> The suspected shooter, identified by police as 24-year-old Connor Stephen Betts, allegedly carried out the massacre with a .223-caliber rifle that he legally purchased.
> Evidence is still being collected, but if all of the shooter's magazines were full at the time of the shooting, the suspect would have had "a maximum of 250 rounds in his possession at the time" of the shooting. He added that investigators have found "at least 41 spent shell casings".
> ...




Hey...shithead...again, you didn't prove anything with the Dayton shooting except to prove us right....

The location of each shooting that was a gun free zone ended up with the higher death count...gun free zones, and how long it took to engage the attacker with a gun changed the number dead, not the weapon...you dumb ass, since any of those attacks could just have easily been done with pistols or a shotgun....because the ranges involved were not a factor with a rifle since the range was close and not long distance....

The Parkland shooting could have been done with pistols or a shotgun.......the range of the shooting was the length of rooms or confined hallways...you doofus......and the cops stayed outside, unlike Dayton, so he had more time to shoot people...you idiot...

The Sutherland Springs shooting...again.....he could have used pistols or a shotgun and killed the same number.....the length of the church was short range, and the weapons made no difference...

For example...you dumb ass....

Virginia Tech.....32 killed with 2 pistols...

Luby's Cafe.....24 killed, 2 pistols.

Kerch, Russia Shooting 20 killed, 70 wounded, 5 shot, pump action shotgun.

Fort Hood shooter....13 killed with 2 pistols.....

Navy Yard shooter.....12 killed, 5 shot, pump action shotgun and stolen 9 mm pistol.

The Dayton shooter  picked a location with cops right there, you moron, so his gun didn't matter ..........good guys started shooting at him right away...

He killed 9......with or without those cops there, he could have killed the exact same number with a pump action shotgun....you doofus.....

Since the Church was a gun free zone, until the NRA instructor stopped the shooter with his own AR-15 rifle, the gun free zone, and lack of someone with a gun in the church allowed him to shoot those people, and a shotgun or pistols would have accomplished the same thing.....

You have no idea what you are talking about...

The only shooting where having a rifle mattered was Las Vegas where the range was over 400 yards...you idiot.

And, idiot...you should actually link to the information......just like you shitheads demand whenever I post things.....you moron.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Holy fuck you're a moron, just the way your fat, orange, dear leader loves his cult.
> 
> That wasn't the point, you ignorant imbecile.




You have no point...you moron........

What makes the difference in the number of people killed is not the weapon....it is the gun free zone location.  The reason for this, you idiot...is because the killing of unarmed people stops as soon as the good guys arrive with guns to attack the shooter...

The shootings you picked...

Dayton...he could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun or pistols.......but he was stopped by guns.........

*On August 4, 2019, 24-year-old Connor Betts shot and killed nine people and injured 17 others near the entrance of the Ned Peppers Bar in the Oregon District of Dayton, Ohio.[3] Betts was fatally shot by responding police officers 32 seconds after the first shots were fired.[3][5] A total of 27 people were taken to area hospitals.**[5]*

*








						2019 Dayton shooting - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Parkland, 17 killed......again, shotgun or pistols...since the police did not enter the building.....Kerch, Russia, another shooting, 20 killed with the 5 shot, pump action shotgun....the police didn't enter the building though they were only 100 yards away...









						Kerch Polytechnic College massacre - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Sutherland Springs.....25 killed....again, a pump action shotgun or pistols could have been used to achieve the same effect since no one had a gun, and the police did not arrive at the scene until after the killer was driven off by the NRA instructor with the AR-15.....

The sutherland springs shooter stopped murdering the wounded when the NRA instructor with the AR-15 rifle called to him from outside the church....ending the attack......driving him out of the area...you dumb ass.....






						Sutherland Springs church shooting - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





Dayton....AR-15 rifle, 9 killed........
Parkland....AR-15 rifle, 17 killed
Sutherland Springs...AR-15 24 killed


Virginia Tech....32 killed with 2 pistols.

Luby's Cafe....24 killed with 2 pistols...

Kerch, Russia....20 killed, pump action shotgun.

Dunblane, Scotland shooting....2 pistols...18 killed.

Navy Yard shooting...12 killed, pump action shotgun.

You idiot.*


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Hey...shithead...again, you didn't prove anything with the Dayton shooting except to prove us right....
> 
> The location of each shooting that was a gun free zone ended up with the higher death count...gun free zones, and how long it took to engage the attacker with a gun changed the number dead, not the weapon...you dumb ass, since any of those attacks could just have easily been done with pistols or a shotgun....because the ranges involved were not a factor with a rifle since the range was close and not long distance....
> 
> ...


So, you deflect from magazine capacity to gun free zones, now.
Q NUTs taught you well.

41 Shots fired, 9 dead, 27 injured in under 30 seconds?
Lasted less than four minutes and left 17 dead?
700 rounds in 11 minutes?

What Rambo is going to accomplish that with a pump-action shotgun, moron?

I'm DONE.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> So, you deflect from magazine capacity to gun free zones, now.
> Q NUTs taught you well.
> 
> 41 Shots fired, 9 dead, 27 injured in under 30 seconds?
> ...




Moron.....I am the one who posted the research on magazine capacity, and I am the one who stated, from the start, that location, not weapon was the factor that mattered the most, you dumb ass....

I showed you the deaths in each shooting and the weapons used......... each of the shootings you listed...you chose....could have been done with shotguns or pistols and achieved the same or higher death rates....as I showed you with the actual shootings that did have higher death rates...

You idiot.

The location, the time  it takes for someone to get to the scene with a gun and confront the shooter, determines how many die..........you idiot.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> 41 Shots fired, 9 dead, 27 injured in under 30 seconds?


Killing 9 people in 30 seconds with a pump action shotgun?
Easy peasy.
What makes you think otherwise?


Smokin' OP said:


> On February 14, 2018, an expelled student entered Parkland, Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and opened fire, killing 17 people and wounding 17 others, in what became the deadliest shooting at a high school in United States history.
> In all, Cruz’s attack lasted less than four minutes and left 17 dead.


Killing 17 people in 4 minutes with a pumnp-action shotgun?
Easy peasy
What makes you think otherwise?


> In the *Sutherland Springs church shooting*, Devin Patrick Kelley shot and killed dozens of people at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas on November 5, 2017. Kelley killed 25 people... in 11 minutes?


Kiilling 25 people in 11 minutes - with a pump action shotgun?
Easy peasy.
What makes you think otherwise?


Smokin' OP said:


> *OK.*


I thank you for poving my point.  Well done.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Funny how it didn't.
> So while many AR-15's are chambered for .223 (5.56 metric), they can also be chambered for .204 Ruger, 5.7x28, .243 WIN, .260 REM, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.8SPC, 7mm, .30 REM, 7.62x39, .308, .338 Lapua, .338 Federal, .450 Bushmaster, .458, .50 Beowulf, .50 BMG and even 9mm, .40 and .45ACP handgun cartridges.
> So the *stock * AR-15 has be be modified to kill a deer, but not a human.


-snort-
You don;t know much about deer, do you?
They are generally both smaller and lighter than the average person; the western Mule deer are more akin to people in weight and size.
Why do you think the "stock" AR15 has to be "modified" to kill a deer, but not a human?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> So, go out and buy a Howitzer, a 50. cal. and a RPG.


Again, you demonstrate your (willful) ignorance of the right to keep and bear arms.
Well done.


Smokin' OP said:


> Just the gun nuts that take advantage of and twist it to suit their needs.
> Gun nuts, that's why.
> Who needs 4500 rounds and 60 weapons?


As expected, you have no rational reasoned reponse to my questions.
Well done.


Smokin' OP said:


> No, it doesn't.


It does.
If you had meaningful counterpoints to what I said, you would have posted them.
You didn't.
Thus.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> Lasted less than four minutes and left 17 dead?
> 700 rounds in 11 minutes?


The fact he fired 700 rounds and only killed 17 people in 11 minutes proves magazone capacity has nothing to do with body counts


Smokin' OP said:


> I'm DONE.


You have been done for some time.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Oct 22, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> The fact he fired 700 rounds and only killed 17 people in 11 minutes proves magazone capacity has nothing to do with body counts


700 rounds.
So, you could do that with a shotgun, Rambo?
You couldn't do 70, numbnuts.


M14 Shooter said:


> You have been done for some time.


Yeah, done with both of you dumbasses.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> 700 rounds.


17 killed in 11 minutes.
You can do that with a pump-action shotgun.
Thus, magazone capacity has nothing to do with body counts        


Smokin' OP said:


> Yeah, done with both of you dumbasses.


Your surrender, accepted.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> 700 rounds.
> So, you could do that with a shotgun, Rambo?
> You couldn't do 70, numbnuts.
> 
> Yeah, done with both of you dumbasses.



No, shithead...a pump action shotgun wouldn't waste that much ammo...and could have killed the same number of people.....

You are done because you have no sane, rational arguments, and you have been schooled over and over again....


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## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

Smokin' OP said:


> 700 rounds.
> So, you could do that with a shotgun, Rambo?
> You couldn't do 70, numbnuts.
> 
> Yeah, done with both of you dumbasses.



Hey...really stupid human....

Luby's cafe shooting...

the attack lasted from 12:39 to 12:51

October 16, 1991; 30 years ago
12:39 – 12:51 p.m.[1]

12 minutes.....2 pistols.....

24 killed....you dumb ass....









						Luby's shooting - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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