# Gang members lie on Federal Background check forms, get guns illegally....gun control works?



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....

gun control.....works just as expected...









						Sibling Gang Members Charged With Illegally Buying 82 Firearms
					

The twin gang member brothers bought the weapons illegally, but it appears they went through lawful gun dealers to do so.




					bearingarms.com


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Oct 10, 2021)

They usually just get someone with a clean record to buy.


----------



## Death Angel (Oct 10, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> They usually just get someone with a clean record to buy.


How do you know?

I thought they mostly stole guns.


----------



## Death Angel (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


Democrats think criminals obey the laws


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...



Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.




Why?  They did nothing wrong....they followed the law....you dumb ass.

Why not sue car makers when a drunk plows into another car?   You really are stupid beyond measure.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.


crook cons a dealer, blame the dealer.


Do you ever think before you post?

(Rhetorical question)


----------



## Slade3200 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


Whoa, that’s crazy. How did you come to hear about this?!


----------



## Otis Mayfield (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.



It would work.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


People speed all the time......speed limits work?

____________________
*341 days of orange whining*


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> It would work.



Right


sue the victim.

You guys make NO sense.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> It would work.



Yes, it would work to close down every gun outlet in the country when people could sue them out of business.  We know that's what you communists want, but we'll fight you to the end.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Why? They did nothing wrong....they followed the law....you dumb ass.
> 
> Why not sue car makers when a drunk plows into another car? You really are stupid beyond measure.



Sure they did. The gun industry knows EXACTLY who they are selling to.  

If I showed up three sheets to the wind at an autodealership, they wouldn't give me the keys. 

But these gangbangers show up at a gun store with a fake ID, and the gun shops are willing to sell them all sorts of guns. 

You see, I'm kind of agreeing with you. Government can't really do a good job of screening unless you want to put an ATF Agent in every gun store.  Otherwise they have to rely on the info the gun sellers give them. 

So simple solution.  Let the victims of gun violence sue.  

The Airlines didn't tighten up security at the airports until AFTER 9/11, and they lost a shitload of money.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure they did. The gun industry knows EXACTLY who they are selling to.
> 
> If I showed up three sheets to the wind at an autodealership, they wouldn't give me the keys.
> 
> ...




Yeah.....car dealerships and drunks vs. gang members and fake I.D.s....do you have to be stupid every day of your life?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...



They figure if Hunter can do it and nothing happen to him, why not them?  Of course they are not the sons of the President to keep them out of trouble.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> crook cons a dealer, blame the dealer.
> 
> 
> Do you ever think before you post?



The gun stores know who they are selling to.  They don't care.  They've made it abundantly clear they don't care.  Crooks having guns is GOOD FOR THEIR BUSINESS.  

Come on, there's a reason why the gun industry opposes closing the gun show loophole, tighter background checks, etc.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yeah.....car dealerships and drunks vs. gang members and fake I.D.s....do you have to be stupid every day of your life?



You don't think they can't spot a fake ID?  Come on, get real.   Of course they can, they just don't care.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You don't think they can't spot a fake ID?  Come on, get real.   Of course they can, they just don't care.


Yeah....they are going to look the other way for one sale because they don't care...

You really are stupid....not caring gets them shut down, you moron.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You don't think they can't spot a fake ID? Come on, get real. Of course they can, they just don't care.











						Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures
					

High-quality fake IDs are readily available on the internet




					www.techradar.com


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure they did. The gun industry knows EXACTLY who they are selling to.
> 
> If I showed up three sheets to the wind at an autodealership, they wouldn't give me the keys.
> 
> ...





JoeB131 said:


> Government can't really do a good job of screening unless you want to put an ATF Agent in every gun store.



They have to fill out form 4473 before they can buy the gun .









						How Do I Get My Background Check for a Firearm Purchase?
					

In most cases, you receive a state or federal background check questionnaire when you buy a gun from a federally-licensed gun dealer. The dealer then submits the form online or by phone. You'll usually be approved within a few minutes of submission. Requirements vary widely from state to state.




					legalbeagle.com


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> The gun stores know who they are selling to.  They don't care.  They've made it abundantly clear they don't care.  Crooks having guns is GOOD FOR THEIR BUSINESS.
> 
> Come on, there's a reason why the gun industry opposes closing the gun show loophole, tighter background checks, etc.




No...releasing known, repeat gun offenders is good for the democrat party..which is why they keep doing it.....by releasing the tiny number of criminals who actually shoot people, they create the fear the democrat party needs to ban and confiscate guns..

Since normal people don't use their 600 million guns to commit crimes...the democrat need to release the actual criminals to keep shooting people..


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

bodecea said:


> People speed all the time......speed limits work?
> 
> ____________________
> *341 days of orange whining*




Speed limits allow you to punish people after they break the law........we have gun laws that do the same thing...use a gun in a crime, you get punished....

What you guys want is essentially to ban and confiscate cars because some people speed...that is what you want to do to guns.....you idiot.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> They have to fill out form 4473 before they can buy the gun .
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A question....why didn't they pop on the federal background check?  They used a fake ID?   So they came back clean?   Is that how it works?


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....they are going to look the other way for one sale because they don't care...
> 
> You really are stupid....not caring gets them shut down, you moron.



Really, when does this happen.  









						'Eye-popping numbers': Chicago sues Indiana gun store tied to 850 firearms recovered from crime scenes
					

The city of Chicago is suing an Indiana gun store it says is one of the main sources of illicit firearms for the criminal market.



					www.usatoday.com
				




Check this out.  850 guns recovered from crimes in Chicago all came from ONE GUN STORE> 

I mean, one or two guns getting through, I can see.  But 850?   Do the employees all have white canes? 

And, yes, this gun store is still in business.  





__





						Westforth Sports
					





					www.westforthsports.com
				




Look at their happy employees, who apparently let at least 850 guns get into the hands of crooks from Chicago.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Speed limits allow you to punish people after they break the law........we have gun laws that do the same thing...use a gun in a crime, you get punished....
> 
> What you guys want is essentially to ban and confiscate cars because some people speed...that is what you want to do to guns.....you idiot.



Attempt to illegally buy a firearm, five years in prison.  Problem solved.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Really, when does this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah......gang members send in their baby mommas......their grand mothers....their mothers..who have clean records, you idiot...so can pass any background check...so unless you want to stop selling guns to black women, you can't say they can't sell guns to people who jump through all the hoops....


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> They have to fill out form 4473 before they can buy the gun .



Not sure what your point is here....  YOu really think that some gangbanger is getting past these measures with their less than High School education without help?


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> A question....why didn't they pop on the federal background check?  They used a fake ID?   So they came back clean?   Is that how it works?



Fake ID is pillar of society, SSN matches, picture matches, passes check.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> No...releasing known, repeat gun offenders is good for the democrat party..which is why they keep doing it.....by releasing the tiny number of criminals who actually shoot people, they create the fear the democrat party needs to ban and confiscate guns..



Uh, guy, if we can't ban and confiscate guns after Sandy Hook, we plain old aren't going to.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, guy, if we can't ban and confiscate guns after Sandy Hook, we plain old aren't going to.



He couldn't legally buy a firearm.  That's why he killed his mother, to get hers.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Not sure what your point is here....  YOu really think that some gangbanger is getting past these measures with their less than High School education without help?



it's remarkable how bright some of those gangbangers are, esp if someone is telling them how to do it, step by step.

As a former prison guard, it was amazing to see what some of those gangbangers come up with.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yeah......gang members send in their baby mommas......their grand mothers....their mothers..who have clean records, you idiot...so can pass any background check...so unless you want to stop selling guns to black women, you can't say they can't sell guns to people who jump through all the hoops....



I want to stop selling guns to everyone.   

But if you really think that if Granny is in a shop in Indiana to buy her tenth gun to take back to Chicago, and no one in the shop really has any idea what is going on, I have some Swampland in Florida I want to sell you. 

So it's really simple.  Let the gun industry run background checks, they can add the cost to the sale of the gun. 

And when their products kill someone, THEN they can take it to court and try to convince a jury.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He couldn't legally buy a firearm. That's why he killed his mother, to get hers.



You mean the gun that she kept where he could get easy access to it, and took him to the range to show him how to use it, and filled his head with crazy Prepper nonsense every day.  

Mama Lanza is a co-conspirator, not a victim.  Nobody calls her the 27th victim.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, guy, if we can't ban and confiscate guns after Sandy Hook, we plain old aren't going to.





JoeB131 said:


> y, if we can't ban and confiscate guns after Sandy Hook, we plain old aren't going to.



Why would we ban guns after Sandy Hook?

the kid actually killed his mother to get  his hands on a gun.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.



The sellers can not be sued for something they have no control over, like what the buyer decides to do with the gun.
If anyone should be sued, it is the people in government responsible for the illegal War on Drugs.
Not only does government have no authority to criminalize what is essentially a medical problem, but we know criminalization of drugs only increases the violence, as it did with alcohol prohibition.
What the War on Drug does is to increase profits, enticing more poor people into it, but at the same time preventing them from using checks, credit cards, banks, police, or anything that might reduce crime.
The War on Drugs is not just illegal, but ensured to create massive crime and murder increases.
It is government that needs to be sued.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> I want to stop selling guns to everyone.
> 
> But if you really think that if Granny is in a shop in Indiana to buy her tenth gun to take back to Chicago, and no one in the shop really has any idea what is going on, I have some Swampland in Florida I want to sell you.
> 
> ...





JoeB131 said:


> I have some Swampland in Florida I want to sell you.



I have little doubt you've been conned into buy lots of swampland.



JoeB131 said:


> Let the gun industry run background checks, they can add the cost to the sale of the gun.



They run background checks, they are added into the cost of the weapon.

are you really that naive?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Attempt to illegally buy a firearm, five years in prison.  Problem solved.




Bump that to 30 years and I am in....


JoeB131 said:


> Really, when does this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The democrat party prosecutors refuse to go after baby mommas, grandmothers, mothers and other black women who buy guns for their gang member sons...

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

*Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.*
*
--------
*
*I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. *

*In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

Read more at: America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

Read more at: America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review
======

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review
===========

The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Chicago today charged an Indiana man with federal firearm violations for allegedly conspiring to straw purchase a semi-automatic handgun that the charges allege was used to shoot two Chicago Police officers last weekend, including the fatal wounding of Officer Ella French.*
*JAMEL DANZY purchased the firearm at a federal firearms dealer in Hammond, Ind., on March 18, 2021, and falsely certified on the required forms that he was the actual buyer, according to a criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Chicago.  In reality, Danzy was a straw purchaser who bought the gun at the request of someone whom Danzy knew resided in Chicago, Ill., and was not lawfully allowed to purchase a firearm due to a felony criminal conviction, the complaint states.  Danzy gave the firearm to the Illinois resident shortly after the purchase, the complaint states.*


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The sellers can not be sued for something they have no control over, like what the buyer decides to do with the gun.
> If anyone should be sued, it is the people in government responsible for the illegal War on Drugs.
> Not only does government have no authority to criminalize what is essentially a medical problem, but we know criminalization of drugs only increases the violence, as it did with alcohol prohibition.
> What the War on Drug does is to increase profits, enticing more poor people into it, but at the same time preventing them from using checks, credit cards, banks, police, or anything that might reduce crime.
> ...




Can you imagine....a gun store refuses to sell a gun to a black woman because they are afraid she is supplying a gang member?  Joe will be back calling for the gun store to be sued for being racist...


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, guy, if we can't ban and confiscate guns after Sandy Hook, we plain old aren't going to.




And that is a good thing....a guy murders his mother, steals his guns, and you want to ban and confiscate 600 million guns from the millions of Americans who own them......who didn't use them for any crime...

Do you realize you are mentally ill and need help?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun that she kept where he could get easy access to it, and took him to the range to show him how to use it, and filled his head with crazy Prepper nonsense every day.
> 
> Mama Lanza is a co-conspirator, not a victim.  Nobody calls her the 27th victim.




Moron....he could have stabbed her to death in her sleep and then gotten the guns....you idiot.........


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> The gun stores know who they are selling to.  They don't care.  They've made it abundantly clear they don't care.  Crooks having guns is GOOD FOR THEIR BUSINESS.
> 
> Come on, there's a reason why the gun industry opposes closing the gun show loophole, tighter background checks, etc.



Sorry, that is ignorant.

First of all, less than 1% of guns in the US are used in crime, so your notion gun stores are deliberately selling to criminals is totally false.

Second is there is NO gun show loop hole.
I have purchased and sold about 20 guns, mostly at gun shows, and not once was one allowed without a full background check.
Why, because gun shows are always at government buildings, like state fair grounds, National Guard armories, etc., where they always require vendors to do full background checks.  If a small vendor does not have the license or equipment, they share with the larger dealers who do.
I have done to hundreds of gun shows in over a dozen cities, and not once was able to bypass the mandatory background checks at any gun show.
It is true these is no law requiring background checks at gun shows, but they still all do it.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> I want to stop selling guns to everyone.
> 
> But if you really think that if Granny is in a shop in Indiana to buy her tenth gun to take back to Chicago, and no one in the shop really has any idea what is going on, I have some Swampland in Florida I want to sell you.
> 
> ...




Shit head.......gun stores already run Federally mandated background checks on every single gun sale......criminals use straw buyers who can pass those background checks..

You know this....you are an extremist.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

So they falsified information. The feds should have caught this earlier than they did, but it certainly doesn’t absolve the gun shop for failing to recognize a phony ID.

But chances good they took a quick glance at the phony ID & said - Okay, you boys look legit. Have they been arrested yet


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Why?  They did nothing wrong....they followed the law....you dumb ass.
> 
> Why not sue car makers when a drunk plows into another car?   You really are stupid beyond measure.


No, not stupid. Joey is EVIL.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 10, 2021)

bodecea said:


> People speed all the time......speed limits work?


Yes...they act as the revenue source they are intended to be!


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> So they falsified information. The feds should have caught this earlier than they did, but it certainly doesn’t absolve the gun shop for failing to recognize a phony ID.
> 
> But chances good they took a quick glance at the phony ID & said - Okay, you boys look legit. Have they been arrested yet




Are you stupid?   They run full background checks on every gun sale.....the majority of the time the buyers have clean records and the gangs use them specifically because the straw buyer has a clean record.......so they will pass any background check.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun that she kept where he could get easy access to it, and took him to the range to show him how to use it, and filled his head with crazy Prepper nonsense every day.
> 
> Mama Lanza is a co-conspirator, not a victim. Nobody calls her the 27th victim.



That wasn't the point.  Nobody can condone what she did.  The point is that the system worked in stopping him from buying a firearm from a licensed dealer.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Really, when does this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Trump voters no doubt - Cha CHING! 🤑


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures
> 
> 
> High-quality fake IDs are readily available on the internet
> ...


And that's not even mentioning the "fake" IDs that are perfect...because they are made by people the DMV in exchange for cash!


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The sellers can not be sued for something they have no control over, like what the buyer decides to do with the gun.



Sure they can.  And when the jury hears that gun store sold 850 guns that were eventually recovered in crimes in Chicago, they can draw their own conclusions.  

You see, there's a reason why your iron has a label on it that says, "Do not iron clothes while wearing them".  Because some idiot did that, burned himself and sued the iron company.  




WillHaftawaite said:


> They run background checks, they are added into the cost of the weapon.
> 
> are you really that naive?



The background checks are inadequate.. that's the point. 

If they had done an adequate background check on Joker Holmes, they'd have found out he was mentally ill and his university was in the process of throwing him out.  NOT the kind of person you'd want to sell an AR-15 and a 100 round magazine to.  



2aguy said:


> Moron....he could have stabbed her to death in her sleep and then gotten the guns....you idiot.........



But he didn't have to. He just picked up the gun she left out for easy reach and shot her with it because she was going to put him in a home.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean the gun that she kept where he could get easy access to it, and took him to the range to show him how to use it, and filled his head with crazy Prepper nonsense every day.
> 
> Mama Lanza is a co-conspirator, not a victim.  Nobody calls her the 27th victim.



Nancy Lanza kept her guns locked up.
But it is just not that hard to break through locks.
No one needs to be shown how to use modern firearms, since they are so easy to use.
There is no evidence she was a "Prepper" or had filled her son with any ideas.
He simply had " Asperger syndrome and as a teenager suffered from depression, anxiety and obsessive-compulsive disorder", and was being abused in school.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> I have little doubt you've been conned into buy lots of swampland.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, he is not naive. Joey is dishonest and malicious.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Why would we ban guns after Sandy Hook?
> 
> the kid actually killed his mother to get  his hands on a gun.



When he blew away his mother, he already HAD the damn gun. Think Will - THINK!


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And that is a good thing....a guy murders his mother, steals his guns, and you want to ban and confiscate 600 million guns from the millions of Americans who own them......who didn't use them for any crime...
> 
> Do you realize you are mentally ill and need help?



But whose fault is that?  Mama Lanza was a mentally ill prepper. She was stockpiling guns.  What she needed was therapy, not more guns.  

20 children and six teachers paid a price.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> So they falsified information. The feds should have caught this earlier than they did, but it certainly doesn’t absolve the gun shop for failing to recognize a phony ID.
> 
> But chances good they took a quick glance at the phony ID & said - Okay, you boys look legit. Have they been arrested yet



What about Hunter Biden?  Everybody knew he was a drug addict that got kicked out of the military, yet he lied on a federal firearms application and illegally bought a firearm with it.  

If a dealer doesn't know somebody as famous as Hunter was not legally allowed to buy a firearm, how would they know if any Tom, Dick or Harry is?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure they can.  And when the jury hears that gun store sold 850 guns that were eventually recovered in crimes in Chicago, they can draw their own conclusions.
> 
> You see, there's a reason why your iron has a label on it that says, "Do not iron clothes while wearing them".  Because some idiot did that, burned himself and sued the iron company.
> 
> ...




Moron.....you blame the victims and want to release the criminals....you are insane...

Your god, "The Government," can't do anything right...the background checks fail because criminals get around them through people with clean records....so nothing a gun store can do will catch them.......you know this, but you want to exploit this to ban and confiscate guns....


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Sorry, that is ignorant.
> 
> First of all, less than 1% of guns in the US are used in crime, so your notion gun stores are deliberately selling to criminals is totally false.
> 
> ...


Joey is not ignorant. Joey is DISHONEST. He is a disciple of Goebbels: he likes The Big Lie.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.


That would be equivalent to victims of alcoholism suing liquor stores?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> But whose fault is that?  Mama Lanza was a mentally ill prepper. She was stockpiling guns.  What she needed was therapy, not more guns.
> 
> 20 children and six teachers paid a price.




He used one gun, you idiot.....he could have used a pistol or a shotgun.......and he could easily have murdered her with a hammer, a knife or his bare hands...

He chose the school, by the way because it was a gun free zone...created by shitheads like you and your stupid ideas...

the High school and the middle school both had police officers on campus, the grade school did not...he attended all 3 but chose the gun free zone to attack.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> But whose fault is that?  Mama Lanza was a mentally ill prepper. She was stockpiling guns.  What she needed was therapy, not more guns.
> 
> 20 children and six teachers paid a price.




And because it was a gun free zone, they became the target...because of people like you.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


Yep. I'm not a registered member of the Oath Keepers, Three Percenters, Proud Boys, BLM, Antifa, MS-13, or any of the other gangs and cartels lawfully permitted to bear arms in the United States.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Sorry, that is ignorant.
> 
> First of all, less than 1% of guns in the US are used in crime, so your notion gun stores are deliberately selling to criminals is totally false.



You miss the point. It's not the money they make off the crook, it's the money they make keeping people scared so they want to buy more guns.  



2aguy said:


> Are you stupid? They run full background checks on every gun sale.....the majority of the time the buyers have clean records and the gangs use them specifically because the straw buyer has a clean record.......so they will pass any background check.



Then the background checks are inadequate.  

Which goes back to my point.  Start hitting these gun sellers in the bottom line, they will make DAMNED sure they aren't selling to the wrong people.


----------



## Concerned American (Oct 10, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> It would work.


Just like the abortion law in TX that you libtards figure is unconstitutional.  You can't have it both ways moron.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> But whose fault is that?  Mama Lanza was a mentally ill prepper. She was stockpiling guns.  What she needed was therapy, not more guns.
> 
> 20 children and six teachers paid a price.


Just sit on the couch and talk about it. They'll drug you into a stupor for your own benefit and protection.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> And because it was a gun free zone, they became the target...because of people like you.



Uh, guy, we have gun free zones because of crazies like you... 

The fact that Mama Lanza had guns at all with a dangerous child she refused to control until he became a dangerous adult, is the problem there.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> But whose fault is that?  Mama Lanza was a mentally ill prepper. She was stockpiling guns.  What she needed was therapy, not more guns.
> 
> 20 children and six teachers paid a price.




Meanwhile....at the same time.....each year Americans use guns 1.2 million times a year to save lives...stopping rapes, beatings, stabbings, robberies, murders and yes, even mass public shootings at schools....

According to the Centers for Disease Control...

Or 1.5 million times a year if you go by the Department of Justice research...

Or 1.67 million times a year if you go by the 2020 Firearms survey research...

Can you tell which number is bigger?  How many lives are saved by guns?


----------



## Lesh (Oct 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Just like the abortion law in TX that you libtards figure is unconstitutional.  You can't have it both ways moron.


Neither can you but you want to.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, guy, we have gun free zones because of crazies like you...
> 
> The fact that Mama Lanza had guns at all with a dangerous child she refused to control until he became a dangerous adult, is the problem there.


Democrat cops see "gun free zones" as license to open fire on suspects without warning.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> That would be equivalent to victims of alcoholism suing liquor stores?




Yep.......

this is why other industries need to support the Lawful Commerce in Arms protection act......if the democrats ever manage to repeal that, it opens up every single industry to predatory lawsuits....far beyond what they face today.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure they can. And when the jury hears that gun store sold 850 guns that were eventually recovered in crimes in Chicago, they can draw their own conclusions.
> 
> You see, there's a reason why your iron has a label on it that says, "Do not iron clothes while wearing them". Because some idiot did that, burned himself and sued the iron company.



Can't find anything about that lawsuit except for what you posted which was a story at the end of April.  Currently gun stores can't be sued unless it's proven they did something wrong.  The story doesn't say these 850 people actually purchased the guns, it said they ended up in their hands.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 10, 2021)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> That would be equivalent to victims of alcoholism suing liquor stores?


More like me suing Carmax after a woman backed her Corolla into my car.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You miss the point. It's not the money they make off the crook, it's the money they make keeping people scared so they want to buy more guns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No...moron.....start keeping gang members in jail when you catch them with illegal guns....

And when you have 5 gang members in a shootout, caught on video...you arrest them and lock them up for life.....but the democrat party wants to ban guns...so they keep releasing these same guys over and over again, so they can keep shooting people....scaring uninformed people, and driving asshats like you crazy....so they can ban guns...


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 10, 2021)

bodecea said:


> People speed all the time......speed limits work?
> 
> ____________________
> *341 days of orange whining*


The world is full of criminals, or perhaps the purpose of traffic violations like speeding is more to fill the coffers.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Can't find anything about that lawsuit except for what you posted which was a story at the end of April.  Currently gun stores can't be sued unless it's proven they did something wrong.  The story doesn't say these 850 people actually purchased the guns, it said they ended up in their hands.




Yeah...not surprising.......anti-gun extremists are going to lie with every post....


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron....he could have stabbed her to death in her sleep and then gotten the guns....you idiot.........



No, we know that Mommy was extremely permissive with the guns. Adam had access any time his violent, mentally ill little ass pleased.









						Newtown report renews focus on role of Lanza's mom
					

HARTFORD, Conn. | As Adam Lanza withdrew from the world into his bedroom, the only person he appeared to be close to was his mother, who cooked his




					www.jacksonville.com


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You miss the point. It's not the money they make off the crook, it's the money they make keeping people scared so they want to buy more guns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would you find gun dealers refusing to sell to blacks anywhere near Chicago an acceptable solution? Because I suspect THAT might be the result.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You miss the point. It's not the money they make off the crook, it's the money they make keeping people scared so they want to buy more guns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hey...shithead......let's try this...

Explain to us why kim foxx, democrat party prosecutor refused to charge the 5 gang members, caught on video, shooting at each other in the middle of a chicago street...with two of the shooters injured and captured at the scene of the shooting...

You tell us why she didn't press charges against them, and why they are still out there shooting people......


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> No, we know that Mommy was extremely permissive with the guns. Adam had access any time his violent little ass pleased.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Moron...he planned the attack for about 2 years.........it didn't matter what she did, he planned on getting those guns.....you moron.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> That would be equivalent to victims of alcoholism suing liquor stores?


Guns aren't addictive like controlled substances and the don't intoxicate people or affect their brain function or judgment.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> No, we know that Mommy was extremely permissive with the guns. Adam had access any time his violent little ass pleased.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the gun's fault how?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Hey...shithead......let's try this...
> 
> Explain to us why kim foxx, democrat party prosecutor refused to charge the 5 gang members, caught on video, shooting at each other in the middle of a chicago street...with two of the shooters injured and captured at the scene of the shooting...
> 
> You tell us why she didn't press charges against them, and why they are still out there shooting people......



Because they're black, that's why.  This is a totally racist administration.  Lighthead wouldn't even allow media interviews from people unless they were not white.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> No, we know that Mommy was extremely permissive with the guns. Adam had access any time his violent little ass pleased.


A 20 year old man is of age. His guns are not subject to his mother's permission.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Meanwhile....at the same time.....each year Americans use guns 1.2 million times a year to save lives...



No, they don't... but I'm betting you aren't counting the below in that number.  



2aguy said:


> Hey...shithead......let's try this...
> 
> Explain to us why kim foxx, democrat party prosecutor refused to charge the 5 gang members, caught on video, shooting at each other in the middle of a chicago street...with two of the shooters injured and captured at the scene of the shooting...



Because the corrupt-ass CPD couldn't tell her who shot who or who fired the first shot.  

No point going to court if every suspect in there could make an argument that they were just shooting in self-defense.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Sorry, that is ignorant.
> 
> First of all, less than 1% of guns in the US are used in crime, so your notion gun stores are deliberately selling to criminals is totally false.
> 
> ...



Depends on the state Dr Rigby. In at least a couple dozen states, an unlicensed dealer may sell any and all weapons at a gun show with no BG check. All the are required to do is take a quick glance at an ID to confirm they are 18 years of age. No record keeping required.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> No, they don't... but I'm betting you aren't counting the below in that number.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Moron.....you sit there and want to persecute gun stores, then defend democrat party prosecutors who have 5 gang members, on video.....illegally carrying and shooting guns at other gang members........two injured and in custody.....and fucking outright refuses to press charges against any of them...

You truly are fucking insane....

She did the same thing with the gang member who killed the little girl...the police actually tried to go around her with a judge and she called the police Superintendent to stop them...


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure they can.  And when the jury hears that gun store sold 850 guns that were eventually recovered in crimes in Chicago, they can draw their own conclusions.
> 
> You see, there's a reason why your iron has a label on it that says, "Do not iron clothes while wearing them".  Because some idiot did that, burned himself and sued the iron company.
> 
> ...



I disagree.
If an iron company puts a warning label on an iron due to a frivolous lawsuit, that does not show there should be more frivolous lawsuits, but fewer.
Irons get a lot hotter than people realize, especially how the steam penetrates the cloth.
But no one can fail to recognized the deadly nature of firearms.

Background checks are not inadequate, but our health care system is.
Before Reagan gutted our mental health care system, we did have much better means of recognizing the mentally ill and placing them under supervision.
Background checks just get the sellers access to the databases.  That is not the problem.
The problem is no one wants to spend money on James Holmes, who clearly had to always have been totally crazy.
Everyone must have known he was crazy for years.
He was taking prescription drugs that are known to make people dangerous.
But none of the person's medical history gets into the background checks, because that would cost too much.

And I think you are mixing up cases.
James Holmes of the Aurora shooting did not get firearms from his mother, she was not in the process of throwing him out, and he did not shoot his mother.

The Aurora shooting is perfect evidence of how our for profit medical system is at fault, nothing else.
There was no one willing to pick up the cost of institutionalizing Holmes, even though it was obvious to everyone he should have been.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Depends on the state Dr Rigby. In at least a couple dozen states, an unlicensed dealer may sell any and all weapons at a gun show with no BG check. All the are required to do is take a quick glance at an ID to confirm they are 18 years of age. No record keeping required.




Wrong....a person can sell their private property to anyone they want.....any gun dealer has to do a background check.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron...he planned the attack for about 2 years.........it didn't matter what she did, he planned on getting those guns.....you moron.



He planned the attack for two years?  How do we know that?  Because they still haven't been able to tell us what his motives were, he completely destroyed his own computer that might have given us clues.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Can't find anything about that lawsuit except for what you posted which was a story at the end of April. Currently gun stores can't be sued unless it's proven they did something wrong. The story doesn't say these 850 people actually purchased the guns, it said they ended up in their hands.



I don't think it was one person who bought all 850, and if it was, then that's not a good sign, either. 

there were 850 transactions, and not a ONE of them raised a red flag? 

Or was this gun store really popular because they know that these guys aren't checking the IDs very hard. 

Remember, these folks drove from Chicago to Gary, IN to buy guns.  There are lots of gun stores in Chicago, why drive that extra distance, to Gary, which is kind of a shitty neighborhood to start with.


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


So it turns out stricter gun control is needed then?

Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> A 20 year old man is of age. His guns are not subject to his mother's permission.



Lol, if he lived in her house they sure as hell were. Jesus, WTF is wrong with some of you people?


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Depends on the state Dr Rigby. In at least a couple dozen states, an unlicensed dealer may sell any and all weapons at a gun show with no BG check. All the are required to do is take a quick glance at an ID to confirm they are 18 years of age. No record keeping required.



No, nothing at all to do with the state.
Laws have nothing to do with background checks at gun shows.
All gun shows always require a background check because that is part of the contract in order to be able to rent a table there.
Has nothing at all to do with laws.
I have gone to hundreds of gun show in dozens of states, and not one has ever allowed a gun sale without a background check, in the last 15 years.
I have never been to a state that required gun show background checks by law, and I don't even see how that could be possible.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Wrong....a person can sell their private property to anyone they want.....any gun dealer has to do a background check.



No. Not an unlicensed dealer at a gun show in around half the states.

I believe we’ve had this conversation before, I provided umpteen links and you STILL haven’t learned.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I disagree.
> If an iron company puts a warning label on an iron due to a frivolous lawsuit, that does not show there should be more frivolous lawsuits, but fewer.
> Irons get a lot hotter than people realize, especially how the steam penetrates the cloth.
> But no one can fail to recognized the deadly nature of firearms.


Uh, we have a lot more people die from guns than Irons.... so maybe not. 

No, wait,  2AGuy is going to come up with a statistics that more people die of Iron injuries than Rare Model Assault rifles on Tuesdays, or something.  




Rigby5 said:


> The problem is no one wants to spend money on James Holmes, who clearly had to always have been totally crazy.
> Everyone must have known he was crazy for years.
> He was taking prescription drugs that are known to make people dangerous.
> But none of the person's medical history gets into the background checks, because that would cost too much.



They wouldn't have had to seen his medical records.  His universtiy was in the process of throwing him out of his Ph.D program because of his increasing mental instability.  









						James Holmes saw three mental health professionals before shooting
					

Univ. of Colorado mental health professionals were well-aware of James Holmes before Aurora theater shooting




					www.cbsnews.com
				




Again, goes back to my point, let the gun industry be sued for the guys like Holmes who slip through the cracks, and they WILL fill in the cracks.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> So it turns out stricter gun control is needed then?
> 
> Thanks for pointing that out.



It is not and never can be illegal for people to purchase firearms just because they belong to a gang.
If that were true, then no police could carry firearms, because they obviously all belong to a gang.  They even have gang colors.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Depends on the state Dr Rigby. In at least a couple dozen states, an unlicensed dealer may sell any and all weapons at a gun show with no BG check. All the are required to do is take a quick glance at an ID to confirm they are 18 years of age. No record keeping required.


What's wrong with that?  The government does not have the right to know if or what firearms anyone owns.  Your problem is you want to blame and punish law abiding citizens because you folks are too afraid to punish and blame actual criminals.  The only person who should be punished if a felon buys a gun, is the felon.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> When he blew away his mother, he already HAD the damn gun. Think Will - THINK!





DrLove said:


> When he blew away his mother, he already HAD the damn gun. Think Will - THINK!



He didn't have the guns he need to cause his destruction......

THINK, Dr, THINK!!!


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, nothing at all to do with the state.
> Laws have nothing to do with background checks at gun shows.
> All gun shows always require a background check because that is part of the contract in order to be able to rent a table there.
> Has nothing at all to do with laws.
> ...



You are mistaken









						Gun Law Navigator: Compare States
					

Learn about hundreds of gun laws and compare laws across states




					everytownresearch.org


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> He didn't have the guns he need to cause his destruction......
> 
> THINK, Dr, THINK!!!



Yes he did. His prepper RW Mama did not have the dozens of weapons in her home locked up.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron.....you sit there and want to persecute gun stores, then defend democrat party prosecutors who have 5 gang members, on video.....illegally carrying and shooting guns at other gang members........two injured and in custody.....and fucking outright refuses to press charges against any of them...



Well, three of them have a pretty good self-defense claim, as they lived in the house that was being fired upon. If they were white people, you'd be making them into NRA heroes. 

The other two... you could make a better claim against, but the police can't tell you who fired the first shot. 

_"The detectives reached out to our office on Friday and acknowledged at the outset that given the chaotic nature at the scene, they were unable to determine how the events unfolded," the statement read. "We reviewed the evidence that was presented to us in consultation with the detectives, and they agreed we were unable to approve charges based on the evidence presented."_






2aguy said:


> She did the same thing with the gang member who killed the little girl...the police actually tried to go around her with a judge and she called the police Superintendent to stop them...



Yes, heaven forbid the cops put down the fucking donuts and do an investigation.  That 17% clearance rate is hard to maintain


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Oct 10, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> Guns aren't addictive like controlled substances and the don't intoxicate people or affect their brain function or judgment.


You would be surprised


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, we have a lot more people die from guns than Irons.... so maybe not.
> 
> No, wait,  2AGuy is going to come up with a statistics that more people die of Iron injuries than Rare Model Assault rifles on Tuesdays, or something.
> 
> ...



Wrong.
Obviously the gun industry was not the cause or cure to mental insanity like Holmes, and there is no way they can fix it.
The fix is free mental health care, paid for by our taxes.  
(Which should really be local, but since the feds are the one doing all the taxing, they should be the ones paying.)
There are no "cracks" in the firearm background check system.
The problem is there was no mental health input because no one wanted to pay for any mental health costs.
If there had been mental health input, then the dealer would have seen it and refused the sale.
The system works, but society does not.
Society is trying to ignore mental health because that would cost something.
Even is the store had refused to sell to Holmes, that would have solved nothing.
He still obviously need a huge amount of mental health care.
He could still have obtains lethal material and still have been just as dangerous.
The problem has nothing at all to do with firearms.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> He planned the attack for two years?  How do we know that?  Because they still haven't been able to tell us what his motives were, he completely destroyed his own computer that might have given us clues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





JoeB131 said:


> There are lots of gun stores in Chicago,



there are?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> I don't think it was one person who bought all 850, and if it was, then that's not a good sign, either.
> 
> there were 850 transactions, and not a ONE of them raised a red flag?
> 
> ...



Guns end up in the hands of criminals no matter what you do.  I didn't say it was one person who bought 850 guns.  What I asked is if they were sold illegally or not.  If they were sold legally and ended up in criminal hands, there is nothing any gun dealership can do about that.  Guns are purchased through straw buyers, they are often stolen, they are sold one on one just like your car or riding mower.  

Not all guns stores are the same.  Some gun stores don't have much of a selection yet alone any real deals while larger stores have a vast array of multiple weapons.  I don't know what this store has, but there is a possibility that people go there for the selection or sales.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

Learn something loophole deniers









						Gun Show Background Checks State Laws
					

View a map showing different state gun show laws.




					www.governing.com
				











						What Makes A Gun Sale Private?
					

With the debate over gun control heating up, certain terms and phrases tend to get thrown around improperly. Guns & America is here to help.




					gunsandamerica.org


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, three of them have a pretty good self-defense claim, as they lived in the house that was being fired upon. If they were white people, you'd be making them into NRA heroes.
> 
> The other two... you could make a better claim against, but the police can't tell you who fired the first shot.
> 
> ...



Almost all gang shootings are the fault of police.
Police know that drug laws are really illegal, and that like Prohibition, all they do is increase enticing profits, and cause shooting due to the cash economy and turf wars that the War on Drugs creates.
Police like the War on Drugs because it scares people and makes it easier for police to ask for raises.
They then get to charge bail, court costs, asset forfeiture of homes, etc.


----------



## San Souci (Oct 10, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> How do you know?
> 
> I thought they mostly stole guns.


They steal anything that ain't nailed down.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Yes he did. His prepper RW Mama did not have the dozens of weapons in her home locked up.



mama didn't have a gunsafe?

you sure about that?


----------



## Turtlesoup (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.


The gun sellers aren't the ones who fucked up---our corrupt FBI is.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Really, when does this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you want them to employ telepaths so they can read the minds of customers or something?
How do you expect the store to be able to predict what a buyer is going to then do with a purchased gun?
For example, I like to try different guns, and then resell them, often at a profit as the value goes up over time.
How is a gun store going to know that, or why should they even care?
You are not making any sense.
Any store has to make at least $1000/day just to be able to afford to stay open.
Assuming about half profit markup, that is $2000/day gross, which at $500/gun, is 40 guns/day.
Which is about 15k guns/year.
So then 850 is a tiny and insignificant number, that get involved in crime.
And there is nothing to indicate any criminal came to this store.
The 850 could all have been stolen from honest buyers.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Almost all gang shootings are the fault of police.
> Police know that drug laws are really illegal, and that like Prohibition, all they do is increase enticing profits, and cause shooting due to the cash economy and turf wars that the War on Drugs creates.
> Police like the War on Drugs because it scares people and makes it easier for police to ask for raises.
> They then get to charge bail, court costs, asset forfeiture of homes, etc.



Police know drug laws are illegal Dr Rigby? Did you learn this from the same folks who bequeathed upon you your vast knowledge of vaccines?


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> mama didn't have a gunsafe?
> 
> you sure about that?



i am certain that she didn’t have most if any of her arsenal locked up. This woman was as scary as her son.









						Exclusive: Probe of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza focusing  on murderer’s ‘psychotic break’ and unlocked guns
					

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanza used in his murderous rampage weren’t routinely locked up




					www.nydailynews.com


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Learn something loophole deniers
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Totally and completely wrong!

State laws have NOTHING at all to do with the fact all gun shows require background checks.
They require background checks because all gun shows are run out of public buildings, like state fair grounds, National Gurard Armories, etc.
Not once have I ever heard of any gun show that did not do background checks in the last 15 years, regardless of what the state laws may be.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Oct 10, 2021)

Need an ID to buy alcohol or a gun but not to vote….?


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Police know drug laws are illegal Dr Rigby? Did you learn this from the same folks who bequeathed upon you your vast knowledge of vaccines?



Drugs were always legal in the past, drugs are a medical problem not a criminal one, and everyone knows from Prohibition that criminalization only makes the problems worse instead of better.
Never once heard of any cop who thought the War on Drugs was legal.
In fact, even "no-knock-raids" actually are totally illegal, unless there is a hostage situation.
These facts are obvious.

As with vaccines, all the knowledge is out there to read.
There are fake opinions as well, but that is easy to detect if you keep reading enough.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> mama didn't have a gunsafe?
> 
> you sure about that?



Nancy Lanza most definitely had a gun safe.
{...
A gun safe was found in a bedroom and investigators found more than 1,400 rounds of ammunition and other firearms.
...}








						Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


This is a lie.

It fails as a confirmation bias fallacy.

No one has ever stated that a particular firearm regulatory measure will end all gun crime and violence.

The NICS background check system works as intended; that criminals attempt to circumvent the system neither mitigates its effectiveness nor justifies its being discontinued.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 10, 2021)

bodecea said:


> People speed all the time......speed limits work?
> 
> ____________________
> *341 days of orange whining*


People murder all the time – using the OP’s ‘logic’ we should do away with laws making murder illegal.


----------



## Polishprince (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.




Gun dealers aren't allowed to discriminate against someone just because they suspect they are gang-related.

BTW, should auto manufacturers be held to account if they sell vehicles to people with shitty driving records ?


----------



## Viktor (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> They have to fill out form 4473 before they can buy the gun .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


criminals use stolen guns


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

AzogtheDefiler said:


> You would be surprised


Guns are not drugs. Druggers and cops hate guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Lol, if he lived in her house they sure as hell were. Jesus, WTF is wrong with some of you people?


She can kick him out or tell him to store his guns elsewhere, but otherwise they are not her business.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

Viktor said:


> criminals use stolen guns


So do cops.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Oct 10, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> Guns are not drugs. Druggers and cops hate guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.


Again, you would be surprised. Try and take someone’s guns….


----------



## Aletheia4u (Oct 10, 2021)




----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> She can kick him out or tell him to store his guns elsewhere, but otherwise they are not her business.



Q: And DID she kick him out?
A: NO
C: Therefore it was bigly fuckup for PrepperMom giving her mentally ill son unfettered access to a literal arsenal.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Really, when does this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


According the the website YOU linked to, the gun store is in Gary Indiana, NOT Chicago.  From what I can find, there isn't a single gun store in the city of Chicago.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The sellers can not be sued for something they have no control over, like what the buyer decides to do with the gun.
> If anyone should be sued, it is the people in government responsible for the illegal War on Drugs.
> Not only does government have no authority to criminalize what is essentially a medical problem, but we know criminalization of drugs only increases the violence, as it did with alcohol prohibition.
> What the War on Drug does is to increase profits, enticing more poor people into it, but at the same time preventing them from using checks, credit cards, banks, police, or anything that might reduce crime.
> ...


According to the article, the ATF has penalized the store for improper verification and twice agents have recommended it's license be pulled.  The store owners need to be jailed and the ATF investigated to find out WHY it's ignoring the recommendations of it's own agents.  After Fast and Furious, I have my suspicions.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> The world is full of criminals, or perhaps the purpose of traffic violations like speeding is more to fill the coffers.


The purpose of writing speeding violations is to punish people exceeding the speed limit and it works to some extent.  The problem is that the speed limits are artificially low and traffic normally moves at the correct speed for road and weather conditions. I used to commute on a freeway that had a sixty five MPH limit, but people routinely ran at ninety. The CHP randomly ticketed drivers which would slow everyone else down for a few minutes and cause traffic jams.


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> It is not and never can be illegal for people to purchase firearms just because they belong to a gang.
> If that were true, then no police could carry firearms, because they obviously all belong to a gang.  They even have gang colors.


Of course it could be.  There's many carve outs to the second amendment.

The rest of your post is just insanity not worth response.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Depends on the state Dr Rigby. In at least a couple dozen states, an unlicensed dealer may sell any and all weapons at a gun show with no BG check. All the are required to do is take a quick glance at an ID to confirm they are 18 years of age. No record keeping required.


By unlicensed dealer, you mean a private party.  And I don't know of any gun show that allows private parties to sell on the premises.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I disagree.
> If an iron company puts a warning label on an iron due to a frivolous lawsuit, that does not show there should be more frivolous lawsuits, but fewer.
> Irons get a lot hotter than people realize, especially how the steam penetrates the cloth.
> But no one can fail to recognized the deadly nature of firearms.
> ...


Reagan didn't gut the mental health system, the ACLU did by suing and winning a case that resulting in not being able in incarcerate the mentally ill against their will unless they are a clear, present and immediate danger to themselves or others.  Reagan moved the funds into Block Grants so the states could fund mental health treatments however they wanted to.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> According the the website YOU linked to, the gun store is in Gary Indiana, NOT Chicago.  From what I can find, there isn't a single gun store in the city of Chicago



Do you know how long it takes to drive from Chicago to Gary? 34 fucking minutes.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, three of them have a pretty good self-defense claim, as they lived in the house that was being fired upon. If they were white people, you'd be making them into NRA heroes.
> 
> The other two... you could make a better claim against, but the police can't tell you who fired the first shot.
> 
> ...


They didn't have a self-defense excuse if they were convicted felons.  The simple possession of a firearm by a convicted felon is a felony.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Q: And DID she kick him out?
> A: NO
> C: Therefore it was bigly fuckup for PrepperMom giving her mentally ill son unfettered access to a literal arsenal.



Willy, you didn’t respond to my last link about Mama Lanza - Why come?


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 10, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Of course it could be.  There's many carve outs to the second amendment.
> 
> The rest of your post is just insanity not worth response.


Nope, there are not carve outs, there are just a whole bunch of commie scum that pretend there are.  You for instance.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Obviously the gun industry was not the cause or cure to mental insanity like Holmes, and there is no way they can fix it.
> The fix is free mental health care, paid for by our taxes.
> (Which should really be local, but since the feds are the one doing all the taxing, they should be the ones paying.)
> ...


The problem is that the HIPPA laws protect the privacy of mentally ill people so they can't be entered into the database of people forbidden to posses guns.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> By unlicensed dealer, you mean a private party.  And I don't know of any gun show that allows private parties to sell on the premises.



Then you are not paying the fuck attention. Kindly read links prior to responding.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Willy, you didn’t respond to my last link about Mama Lanza - Why come?



which one?


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 10, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Nope, there are not carve outs


Sorry, kid.  That's blatantly incorrect.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Nancy Lanza most definitely had a gun safe.
> {...
> A gun safe was found in a bedroom and investigators found more than 1,400 rounds of ammunition and other firearms.
> ...}
> ...


1400 rounds of ammo isn't a lot.  When I was a active target shooter, I'd go through several hundred rounds a day and I practiced at least four times a week.  I got my ammo from my reserve unit since I shot military matches and I kept my ammo in my house.  Since I only had one weekend a month reserve duty, I kept a full month's ammo on hand which was at least three thousand rounds  for ONE gun. Serious shooters go through more than I did.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> which one?



Who am I fooling - You don’t read! 









						Exclusive: Probe of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza focusing  on murderer’s ‘psychotic break’ and unlocked guns
					

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanza used in his murderous rampage weren’t routinely locked up




					www.nydailynews.com


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Q: And DID she kick him out?
> A: NO
> C: Therefore it was bigly fuckup for PrepperMom giving her mentally ill son unfettered access to a literal arsenal.


Unfettered? The kid was supposed to be kept in handcuffs day and night from when he was born until the day he died, just to keep him away from guns?


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Nancy Lanza most definitely had a gun safe.
> {...
> A gun safe was found in a bedroom and investigators found more than 1,400 rounds of ammunition and other firearms.
> ...}
> ...


Lanza's mother had at least seven firearms.  1400 rounds was only two hundred rounds per gun plus the three hundred Lanza took with him.


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 10, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Sorry, kid.  That's blatantly incorrect.


You are incorrect, as usual. Keep spewing your incorrect commie nonsense.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Who am I fooling - You don’t read!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Paywall.

no thanks


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Lanza's mother had at least seven firearms.  1400 rounds was only two hundred rounds per gun plus the three hundred Lanza took with him.



Seven, you are FOS .. PrepperMom had DOZENS!









						Exclusive: Probe of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza focusing  on murderer’s ‘psychotic break’ and unlocked guns
					

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanza used in his murderous rampage weren’t routinely locked up




					www.nydailynews.com


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Paywall.
> 
> no thanks



Did see this, before the demand for money came up.

"“They weren’t under lock and key,” said the friend, who last saw the guns months before the Dec. 14 rampage. "

"who last saw the guns months before'?

Yea, that's conclusive.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Paywall.
> 
> no thanks



Fucking nonsense Willy!
~~~~~

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanzaused in his murderous rampage weren't routinely locked up in his home even though his mother knew he had serious psychological problems, a close family friend told the Daily News.

Investigators are focusing on whether Lanza had a “psychotic break” before he murdered his mother, then shot to death 26 children and staffers at Sandy Hook Elementary School last month, the friend said.

Nancy Lanza had brought her son to a psychiatrist and pushed him to get out of the house as he became increasingly antisocial, according to the friend.

“He would act like a child. He would scream and shout when she brought up getting out of the house (instead of) spending hours and hours playing video games,” the friend said.

Newtown killer Adam Lanza had a "psychotic break," investigators believe before he killed his mom Nancy Lanza and 26 students and staffers at the Sandy Hook Elementary School last month. (NBC 4 NEW YORK)

Despite the warning signs, in the months before the massacre, Nancy Lanza didn’t secure her arsenal, which included the Bushmaster XM-15 used by her son in the slaughter, along with a 10-mm. Glock handgun, a 9-mm SIG Sauer handgun and four rifles.

“They weren’t under lock and key,” said the friend, who last saw the guns months before the Dec. 14 rampage. “She kept her stuff (the guns) all together in a closet.”

Lanza’s mental health was the focus of a recent interview the Connecticut State Police conducted with the family friend as authorities investigate the Sandy Hook slaughter.

“They told me they think he had a psychotic break and were asking if Nancy mentioned anything (to me) about Adam not taking his medications,” the friend told The News.

Experts say a psychotic break occurs when a person experiences a loss of contact with reality that usually includes delusions or hallucinations.

The friend couldn’t provide the police with any new information.

“He was on some serious medications to help deal with his issues, but (Nancy) never told me what they were or if he stopped taking them,” the friend said.

Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) said the importance of securing weapons is “well recognized by responsible gun owners.”

If Nancy Lanza’s failure to secure her guns played a role in the Newton tragedy, he said, “Maybe it serves as a lesson for people who may not follow those basic rules of safety that responsible gun owners follow.”

Lanza, 20, fatally shot his mother before blasting his way into the Newtown, Conn., school.

After he murdered 20 children and six staffers with a military-style rifle, he committed suicide as police approached.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Do you know how long it takes to drive from Chicago to Gary? 34 fucking minutes.


It's still not in Chicago.  It's not even in the same state.  All I corrected was your inaccuracy, I would have accepted Chicago area as accurate.  Where there is demand there will be supply and Chicago and Illinois as a whole has done everything possible to limit or eliminate legal gun ownership and ignored illegal gun ownership.  Hell even the article points out that the lawsuit is being brought by a private anti-gun group, not the city of Chicago or the state of Illinois. At one point, Chicago banned firearms ownership unless you had a city license and to get the license you had to put in a certain number of training and shooting hours at a city approved range within the city limits.  Sounds good right?  The catch 22 was that there wasn't a single range inside the city limits so it was impossible (deliberately so) to get a license.  If you wonder why pro gun people as suspicious about anti-gunners this is just one example.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Seven, you are FOS .. PrepperMom had DOZENS!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm just going by what the linked article said.  If she had dozens, it weakens your argument even further.  1400 rounds split among dozens of weapons is a few rounds per gun.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Fucking nonsense Willy!
> ~~~~~
> 
> The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanzaused in his murderous rampage weren't routinely locked up in his home even though his mother knew he had serious psychological problems, a close family friend told the Daily News.
> ...



I read it, Dr.

Why are you ignoring:


DrLove said:


> They weren’t under lock and key,” said the friend, who last saw the guns months before the Dec. 14



The neighbor hadn't seen them for months before.


HTF would she know if they were locked up or not?


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> I read it, Dr.
> 
> Why are you ignoring:
> 
> ...



Oh for the love of GOD, we have dozens of testimonial accounts as to Nancy’s unsecured arsenal. How many more would you like in addition to the weapons we know she GAVE to her son.

Of course in the last couple of years she allowed no one in her house (including repairmen she called) and when the cops broke in, there were dozens more entirely unsecured.

You are losing this argument - Go away.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Oh for the love of GOD, we have dozens of testimonial accounts as to Nancy’s unsecured arsenal. How many more would you like in addition to the weapons we know she GAVE to her son.
> 
> Of course in the last couple of years she allowed no one in her house (including repairmen she called) and when the cops broke in, there were dozens more entirely unsecured.
> 
> You are losing this argument - Go away.



You LOST the argument.


"Of course in the last couple of years she allowed no one in her house (including repairmen she called) and when the cops broke in, there were dozens more entirely unsecured.'


No one had been in the house for months, but they KNEW she had guns just laying around?
there were dozens unsecured?

Maybe Adam left them laying around after he got what he wanted, and didn't bother to put them back in the safe.

Give this on a thumbs down too, dr.

Prove you can't think.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> You LOST the argument.
> 
> 
> "Of course in the last couple of years she allowed no one in her house (including repairmen she called) and when the cops broke in, there were dozens more entirely unsecured.'
> ...



So lemme get this straight Willy Go Round in Circles - Your contention is that Adam Lanza blew away Prepper Mama in order get keys to a gun safe? 









						'Arsenal' Found At Newtown Shooter's Home; Read The Police Reports
					

Just hours after 20 children and six educators were killed in December at Sandy Hook Elementary School, investigators started gathering evidence at gunman Adam Lanza's home.




					www.npr.org


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> So lemme get this straight Willy Go Round in Circles - Your contention is that Adam Lanza blew away Prepper Mama in order get keys to a gun safe?



Yes

Because he had his OWN gun safe in his bedroom.


He just didn't have the firepower he wanted.

Mommy did.


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 10, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> You are incorrect, as usual. Keep spewing your incorrect commie nonsense.


Ok squid, how come felons can't own weapons in many places?  Why can't you carry your pistol into the airport?  Or the post office?  Or the court house?

There are shitloads or carve outs.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> I'm just going by what the linked article said.  If she had dozens, it weakens your argument even further.  1400 rounds split among dozens of weapons is a few rounds per gun.



Jesus yer dumb









						'Arsenal' Found At Newtown Shooter's Home; Read The Police Reports
					

Just hours after 20 children and six educators were killed in December at Sandy Hook Elementary School, investigators started gathering evidence at gunman Adam Lanza's home.




					www.npr.org


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Yes
> 
> Because he had his OWN gun safe in his bedroom.
> 
> ...



Link Twink? No, you don’t. There were - Per the GD POLICE REPORT - DOZENS of unsecured weapons just laying the fuck around.

But maybe you could link me to Prepper Mamas “safe“ or any evidence whatsoever that he killed her for “the keys”?

Nope, now take your butt whipping like a GD MAN!!


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Link Twink? No, you don’t. There was - Per the GD POLICE REPORT - DOZENS of unsecured weapons just laying the fuck around.
> 
> But maybe you could link me to Prepper Mamas “safe“ or any evidence whatsoever that he killed her for “the keys”?
> 
> Nope, now take your butt whipping like a GD MAN!!





DrLove said:


> Link Twink?



Did you even read the Police Report you recently linked?

"And they came upon an "Adam Lanza National Rifle Association certificate." While some computers, gaming consoles and other electronic devices were recovered, there was "a smashed hard drive on top of a desk in what is believed to be Adam Lanza's bedroom." He had a gun safe in the room, as well."

"On the morning of December 14, 2012, Adam Lanza, the shooter, age 20, of 36 Yogananda St., Newtown, shot his mother, Nancy Lanza, age 52, in her bed with a .22 caliber rifle. There was no indication of a struggle."


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 10, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Ok squid, how come felons can't own weapons in many places?  Why can't you carry your pistol into the airport?  Or the post office?  Or the court house?
> 
> There are shitloads or carve outs.


Squid? What's that about, pinko? Obviously felons should never be released if they aren't responsible enough to exercise all their rights, that's a product of liberal coddling.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Did you even read the Police Report you recently linked?
> 
> "And they came upon an "Adam Lanza National Rifle Association certificate." While some computers, gaming consoles and other electronic devices were recovered, there was "a smashed hard drive on top of a desk in what is believed to be Adam Lanza's bedroom." He had a gun safe in the room, as well."
> 
> "On the morning of December 14, 2012, Adam Lanza, the shooter, age 20, of 36 Yogananda St., Newtown, shot his mother, Nancy Lanza, age 52, in her bed with a .22 caliber rifle. There was no indication of a struggle."



The point being WHAT exactly?

That Mama “Prepper” Lanza bought him violent video games, guns, & left dozens of guns laying around when the cops rolled in?

Or was it that Adam was able to lock the best ones up in the safe in his bedroom??

Dude, I'm in stitches!!


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 10, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> Squid? What's that about, pinko? Obviously felons should never be released if they aren't responsible enough to exercise all their rights, that's a product of liberal coddling.



Squid = dictating to phone with a month full of french fries.

It's still.a.carve out


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Yes
> 
> Because he had his OWN gun safe in his bedroom.
> 
> ...




Only fair - I’ve provide several!


----------



## Rogue AI (Oct 10, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Squid = dictating to phone with a month full of french fries.
> 
> It's still.a.carve out


I don't get it. You are clearly a troubled individual.


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 10, 2021)

Rogue AI said:


> I don't get it. You are clearly a troubled individual.


LOL, I'm not the RWNJ here.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> The point being WHAT exactly?
> 
> That Mama “Prepper” Lanza bought him violent video games, guns, & left dozens of guns laying around when the cops rolled in?
> 
> ...





DrLove said:


> Or was it that Adam was able to lock the best ones up in the safe in his bedroom??



What he had was crap compared to mommys arsenal.



DrLove said:


> Dude, I'm in stitches!!



an admission you're coming apart at the seams?


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Only fair - I’ve provide several!











						Arsenal of weapons including guns, a gun safe with shotgun shells, a bayonet and several swords found in home of Newtown killer Adam Lanza
					

Newtown mass killer Adam Lanza left his NRA certificate at home with his slain mother’s body before going on his bloody Dec. 14 rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School.




					www.nydailynews.com
				




"Antisocial son Lanza, 20, kept a gun safe holding four weapons inside the bedroom where he holed up playing "Call of Duty" and other violent video games, according to documents released Thursday."

4 weapons....

None of which he wanted to take to school with him that day..

so he raided mommies safe.

information which was probably in one of your links..

if you had bothered to read them.


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> What he had was crap compared to mommys arsenal.
> 
> an admission you're coming apart at the seams?



Will, I always admit it when I’m wrong. So WTF has happened to you?


----------



## DrLove (Oct 10, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Arsenal of weapons including guns, a gun safe with shotgun shells, a bayonet and several swords found in home of Newtown killer Adam Lanza
> 
> 
> Newtown mass killer Adam Lanza left his NRA certificate at home with his slain mother’s body before going on his bloody Dec. 14 rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
> ...



Link to mommies safe?

Meh, u ain’t got. In desperation scrounged one in Adam’s bedroom.

Pathetic (and fucking sad man)


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Will, I always admit it when I’m wrong. So WTF has happened to you?



I've corrected several of your misconceptions, and I've seen no admission of errors.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Oct 10, 2021)

DrLove said:


> Link to mommies safe?
> 
> Meh, u ain’t got. In desperation scrounged one in Adam’s bedroom.
> 
> Pathetic (and fucking sad man)





DrLove said:


> Link to mommies safe?



what link do you need that you haven't posted yourself?


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Simple enough solution.  Let victims of gun violence sue the gun sellers... betcha they'll watch who they sell to after that.


What about that story would have told the shop owner that they bad guys were lying on the forms?  Had the shop owner refused to sell them guns it would have been headlines on ABC, MSNBC, and CNN about the racist gun shop that refused to sell guns to black men.  Suing the gun seller makes no sense.  Suing Democrats, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense.  Sue prosecutors, sue politicians who keep guns out of the hands of the innocent.  Sue the Feds for the open border through which the drugs that funded those 82 gun purchases comes.


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, it would work to close down every gun outlet in the country when people could sue them out of business.  We know that's what you communists want, but we'll fight you to the end.


Various reports state from 400 million to 600 million guns in the United States.  I know that I never need to go into a gun store again as long as I live.  Shutting down gun stores is not going to yield the left's stated goals of reducing gun crime.  I have no plans of participating in a revolution or committing a crime but, even if I had such plans, shutting down gunshops wouldn't stop me.  The left are idiots.

But there are guns I would like to own.  I can't get any of them now.  And stupid gun laws are making some very cool, historic guns illegal - such as rifles or shotguns with revolver mechanisms.

So the only persons hurt by shutting down gun shops, really seriously hurt, are gun shop owners and employers, and leftists who are too late into the gun ownership crowd - like leftist women who suddenly realize they can't count on the police to come running when they're being raped (they never could count on it but the police defunding is bringing it to their attention).  Have we had a thread on just how much the left hates women?


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> He planned the attack for two years?  How do we know that?  Because they still haven't been able to tell us what his motives were, he completely destroyed his own computer that might have given us clues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Shithead.......they went into his room and saw the flow charts and other plans he made...you doofus.....they know exactly why he did it.......he saw the attack as a video game and he wanted a high score....and he targeted the smallest children at the school because they couldn't protect themselves or escape.......this is all known, you idiot......


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, we have a lot more people die from guns than Irons.... so maybe not.
> 
> No, wait,  2AGuy is going to come up with a statistics that more people die of Iron injuries than Rare Model Assault rifles on Tuesdays, or something.
> 
> ...




None of those professionals did anything, yet you want gun stores to do complete mental health checks before they sell guns....

You are a fucking moron....


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, three of them have a pretty good self-defense claim, as they lived in the house that was being fired upon. If they were white people, you'd be making them into NRA heroes.
> 
> The other two... you could make a better claim against, but the police can't tell you who fired the first shot.
> 
> ...




No...they don't....they were convicted criminals with no legal right to the guns they had...you idiot......

Kim Foxx called the Superintendent to get the investigation stopped...you idiot..


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 10, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> People murder all the time – using the OP’s ‘logic’ we should do away with laws making murder illegal.




Wrong, shithead....

You guys claim gun control reduces gun crime...they do not since criminals get around them so easily....

Laws define punishment for breaking them.......we want long prison sentences for gun criminals while democrat party judges and prosecutors release known, repeat gun offenders, like these 5 gang members, over and over again....then democrat party politicians use the shootings created by the criminals they release as the reason to increase the red tape, and legal peril for law abiding gun owners...


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 10, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Various reports state from 400 million to 600 million guns in the United States. I know that I never need to go into a gun store again as long as I live. Shutting down gun stores is not going to yield the left's stated goals of reducing gun crime. I have no plans of participating in a revolution or committing a crime but, even if I had such plans, shutting down gunshops wouldn't stop me. The left are idiots.
> 
> But there are guns I would like to own. I can't get any of them now. And stupid gun laws are making some very cool, historic guns illegal - such as rifles or shotguns with revolver mechanisms.
> 
> So the only persons hurt by shutting down gun shops, really seriously hurt, are gun shop owners and employers, and leftists who are too late into the gun ownership crowd - like leftist women who suddenly realize they can't count on the police to come running when they're being raped (they never could count on it but the police defunding is bringing it to their attention). Have we had a thread on just how much the left hates women?



Leftist women could care less.  Look at what Biden did.  He re-instituted a policy that Trump rescinded which forced schools to allow weirdos in dresses to compete against real girls for trophies and potential college scholarships in school athletics.  They stood behind policies that allowed those adult weirdos into their bathrooms and dressing rooms in stores and gyms.  He even put them back in the military.  Now they are going to flood our American schools with kids that don't know a word of the language retarding their kids from learning. 

The Democrats are not stupid, they only act like it.  They know by disarming the public, we would have a society where only the criminals and police have the guns.  Violent crime would skyrocket and how do you fight big crime?  The same way we fought against big tobacco, big business, big pharma and others, and that's with a bigger government.


----------



## evenflow1969 (Oct 10, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


Lol horrible argument on this one. Gun control worked in this case these ducks are going to jail.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Obviously the gun industry was not the cause or cure to mental insanity like Holmes, and there is no way they can fix it.
> The fix is free mental health care, paid for by our taxes.
> (Which should really be local, but since the feds are the one doing all the taxing, they should be the ones paying.)
> There are no "cracks" in the firearm background check system.



Um, no.   The fact is, the gun industry has taken the position that they should be able to sell a gun to anyone they want to because the Second Amendment says they can. 

The problem is, the gun industry WANTS crazy people and crooks to have guns.  

Crime and random violence means that insecure people will want guns to defend themselves.  Of course, DGU's never actually happen, an act of violence is usually over before anyone can react to it. But the fear means sales. 

So Joker Holmes can walk into a gun store with his crazy behavior and his orange hair and they'll happily sell him an AR-15 and a 100 round magazine.  

Now, alternative.  The relatives of the 17 people he killed can sue over that.   After the big judgement against the gun store and the manufacturers, you bet they'll do honest to god background checks.  



Rigby5 said:


> Even is the store had refused to sell to Holmes, that would have solved nothing.
> He still obviously need a huge amount of mental health care.
> He could still have obtains lethal material and still have been just as dangerous.
> The problem has nothing at all to do with firearms.



Bullshit.  A gun made him more lethal than other materials could have. that's the point.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> So you want them to employ telepaths so they can read the minds of customers or something?



Works for me.  




Rigby5 said:


> How do you expect the store to be able to predict what a buyer is going to then do with a purchased gun?
> For example, I like to try different guns, and then resell them, often at a profit as the value goes up over time.
> How is a gun store going to know that, or why should they even care?



That's the point. To make them care.  If you can be sued because you sold to a gangbanger or a person who thinks they are the Joker, you are going to care who gets your guns. 

The problem is, right now, the gun industry DOESN'T care. 



Rigby5 said:


> Any store has to make at least $1000/day just to be able to afford to stay open.
> Assuming about half profit markup, that is $2000/day gross, which at $500/gun, is 40 guns/day.
> Which is about 15k guns/year.



You work on the assumption that I care if gun stores CAN stay in business selling death and suffering. I really don't.  



Rigby5 said:


> So then 850 is a tiny and insignificant number, that get involved in crime.
> And there is nothing to indicate any criminal came to this store.
> The 850 could all have been stolen from honest buyers.



one gun getting into a crook's hand, I can give them a pass.   850?  they're in on it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Leftist women could care less. Look at what Biden did. He re-instituted a policy that Trump rescinded which forced schools to allow weirdos in dresses to compete against real girls for trophies and potential college scholarships in school athletics. They stood behind policies that allowed those adult weirdos into their bathrooms and dressing rooms in stores and gyms. He even put them back in the military. Now they are going to flood our American schools with kids that don't know a word of the language retarding their kids from learning.



Oh, my God, Welfare Ray, there's a whole army of Trannies and they are out to get you!!!!   








Ray From Cleveland said:


> The Democrats are not stupid, they only act like it. They know by disarming the public, we would have a society where only the criminals and police have the guns. Violent crime would skyrocket and how do you fight big crime? The same way we fought against big tobacco, big business, big pharma and others, and that's with a bigger government.



Once again- Western Europe, Japan and Canada limit who can own guns.  They have nowhere near our crime rates.  Their police rarely shoot civilians or suspects.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> According the the website YOU linked to, the gun store is in Gary Indiana, NOT Chicago. From what I can find, there isn't a single gun store in the city of Chicago.



There are a bunch of gun stores in Chicago now, after the McDonald Decision.  









						Top 10 Best Gun Store in Chicago, IL - December 2022 - Yelp
					

Reviews on Gun Store in Chicago, IL - North American Firearms, Suburban Sporting Goods, Shore Galleries, Eagle Sports Range, DMZ Sporting Gear, Maxon Shooters Supplies & Indoor Range, The Range At 355, Illinois Protect and Conceal, Midwest Guns, Sporting Arms & Supply




					www.yelp.com
				




The reason why this gun store in Indiana is so popular with the crooks is that they don't ask for FOID cards.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2021)

2aguy said:


> they went into his room and saw the flow charts and other plans he made...you doofus.....they know exactly why he did it.......he saw the attack as a video game and he wanted a high score....and he targeted the smallest children at the school because they couldn't protect themselves or escape.......this is all known, you idiot......



Do you have a link?  Oh, wait, no you don't.  

While they did find he had a fascination with other mass shootings, they didn't find elaborate plans. 









						Sandy Hook shootings: Four things revealed by FBI files
					

The FBI declassifies 1,500 pages relating to the 2012 school shooting in Newtown that left 26 dead.



					www.bbc.com
				






2aguy said:


> None of those professionals did anything, yet you want gun stores to do complete mental health checks before they sell guns....



Works for me.  Hey, you start holding those gun stores accountable, they'll be doing ink blot tests before they open the show case.  





2aguy said:


> No...they don't....they were convicted criminals with no legal right to the guns they had...you idiot......
> 
> Kim Foxx called the Superintendent to get the investigation stopped...you idiot..



I find the CPD's hatred of Foxx to be amusing, since they put her into office.  She won because of the CPD's criminal conduct in the Laquan McDonald Shooting so outraged people they threw out Anita Alverez (who apparently couldn't bring charges against a rogue cop when she had videotape of him shooting a kid 16 times as he was lying on the ground.)


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 11, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> The reason why this gun store in Indiana is so popular with the crooks is that they don't ask for FOID cards.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 11, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, my God, Welfare Ray, there's a whole army of Trannies and they are out to get you!!!!



Not me OCD Shmoe, but they are out to further decay our society until it gets so low, so disgusting, so deplorable it meets Democrat standards.



JoeB131 said:


> Once again- Western Europe, Japan and Canada limit who can own guns. They have nowhere near our crime rates. Their police rarely shoot civilians or suspects.



And once again, OCD Shmoe is comparing


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 11, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> That's the point. To make them care. If you can be sued because you sold to a gangbanger or a person who thinks they are the Joker, you are going to care who gets your guns.
> 
> The problem is, right now, the gun industry DOESN'T care.



So do you know who gangbangers are?  Do they wear a jacket or shirt stating they are gangbangers?  To me all blacks look like gangbangers.  If I owned a gun store, would I be able to get away with not selling them any guns?


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not me OCD Shmoe, but they are out to further decay our society until it gets so low, so disgusting, so deplorable it meets Democrat standards.



Really? I thought they were just out to live their lives.  

Please tell me how Trannies make your life worse in any way, shape or form. 

Thanks. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> So do you know who gangbangers are? Do they wear a jacket or shirt stating they are gangbangers? T*o me all blacks look like gangbangers.* If I owned a gun store, would I be able to get away with not selling them any guns?



Tell us again how not racist you are, Ray.  That shit never gets old.


----------



## Independentthinker (Oct 12, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...


The left are idiots. They work on the assumption that gun control laws will keep guns out of the hands of criminals. The whole thing relies on criminals being honest and following the laws. How stupid is that?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Really? I thought they were just out to live their lives.
> 
> Please tell me how Trannies make your life worse in any way, shape or form.
> 
> Thanks.



They don't have to affect me personally.  They are adding to the decay of a normal society which is what you leftists want.    



JoeB131 said:


> Tell us again how not racist you are, Ray. That shit never gets old.



Dodge noted.  Good move on your part since you can't debate the substance of it.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Do you have a link?  Oh, wait, no you don't.
> 
> While they did find he had a fascination with other mass shootings, they didn't find elaborate plans.
> 
> ...




You are a dipshit....the Sandy Hook shooter planned it out.....I have relatives in law enforcement who went to seminars on mass public shooters and other killers, you dipshit......they were told what they found....


*The Courant obtained the spreadsheet along with more than 1,000 pages of documents from Lanza’s Newtown home, gathered by state police as part of their investigation into the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. The Courant waged a five-year legal battle for the records, culminating in a state Supreme Court decision that ordered their release.*
*----*
*The Courant obtained the spreadsheet along with more than 1,000 pages of documents from Lanza’s Newtown home, gathered by state police as part of their investigation into the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. The Courant waged a five-year legal battle for the records, culminating in a state Supreme Court decision that ordered their release.*









						Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza's spreadsheet detailing centuries of mass violence served as a road map to murder
					

Among the documents obtained by The Courant is Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza's mass murder spreadsheet that contains hundreds of killers.




					www.courant.com


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Do you have a link?  Oh, wait, no you don't.
> 
> While they did find he had a fascination with other mass shootings, they didn't find elaborate plans.
> 
> ...




Yeah....so the democrat party voters in Illinois, voted out one incompetent democrat party stooge over that one case.....so now kim foxx let's even more assholes loose....

You keep showing how dumb Chicago democrat party voters are...


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> There are a bunch of gun stores in Chicago now, after the McDonald Decision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Moron...none of those are in the city....you dumb shit....the first one is in a town called Lombard....not Chicago.....you idiot.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> There are a bunch of gun stores in Chicago now, after the McDonald Decision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Moron...Maxon shooting is in Des plaines, not Chicago...you really are an idiot.....

None of those gun stores is in Chicago, you dope.....the First one is in a suburb 36 miles away from Chicago, Maxon's in Desplaines......you are an idiot....Suburban Sporting goods is in Melrose Park.......

You really, truly, are an idiot...the next one is in Lincolnwood....the next one is in Oak Park......


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, no.   The fact is, the gun industry has taken the position that they should be able to sell a gun to anyone they want to because the Second Amendment says they can.
> 
> The problem is, the gun industry WANTS crazy people and crooks to have guns.
> 
> ...



There are already honest-to-God background checks.  Holmes got his guns after passing background checks. 

There are a lot of problems with the idea of background checks but one major problem is that it only stops people who have already been convicted of a crime from buying a gun.  Background checks do nothing to stop those who are planning their first crime as a mass shooting, or those who have been robbing liquor stores and killing drug dealing competition for years, but have just not yet been convicted.

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, a US Government agency, less than 5% of guns used in crimes were purchased by the criminal legally at retail.  Background checks are not intended to reduce crime but are, instead, very explicitly a tool of the left in their gun confiscation plans.



			https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 13, 2021)

evenflow1969 said:


> Lol horrible argument on this one. Gun control worked in this case these ducks are going to jail.


They bought 82 guns... How many people are dead because of those 82 guns?  Gun control didn't work because gun control doesn't work.


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> There are a bunch of gun stores in Chicago now, after the McDonald Decision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You cannot buy a handgun in Indiana if you don't have Indiana ID.  FOID cards are required in Illinois but Indiana has no such legal requirement.  It would be a Federal crime for a gun shop in Indiana to sell a gun to someone with an Illinois FOID used as identification.  

Geeze, you're such a fucking idiot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They don't have to affect me personally. They are adding to the decay of a normal society which is what you leftists want.



How?  

Frankly, the same things were said about the Civil Rights movement, the Women's liberation movement and the gay rights movement.  Society turned out to be fine. 

The only thing that contributes to the decay of society is wealth inequality, aggravated by stupid white people voting against their own economic interests because of their racial, religious and sexual fears. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dodge noted. Good move on your part since you can't debate the substance of it.


You didn't present substance, you just said something dumb and racist again.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2021)

2aguy said:


> You are a dipshit....the Sandy Hook shooter planned it out.....I have relatives in law enforcement who went to seminars on mass public shooters and other killers, you dipshit......they were told what they found....



It just said they found 2000 pages of clipping on mass shootings.  I mean, it's horrible that we live in a country where you actually CAN collect 2000 pages of material on mass shootings because they happen so often.  

But what they don't have is a floor plan of Sandy Hook or anything like a "Plan".  Because Lanza was a high-functioning retard who wasn't really capable of "Planning".  



woodwork201 said:


> There are already honest-to-God background checks. Holmes got his guns after passing background checks.



Uh. No.  

I'll try to make this simple for you.  Within 24 hours of the shooting, the press was able to find out that Holmes was mentally ill, had a fascination with violence, and was being removed from his university for mental problems.  

Now, imagine a world where we do that kind of investigation BEFORE we give someone a Military Grade Assault Rifle and a 100 round clip of ammo.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....so the democrat party voters in Illinois, voted out one incompetent democrat party stooge over that one case.....so now kim foxx let's even more assholes loose....
> 
> You keep showing how dumb Chicago democrat party voters are...



You guys had every opportunity to run against her in 2020. 

And failed.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> It just said they found 2000 pages of clipping on mass shootings.  I mean, it's horrible that we live in a country where you actually CAN collect 2000 pages of material on mass shootings because they happen so often.
> 
> But what they don't have is a floor plan of Sandy Hook or anything like a "Plan".  Because Lanza was a high-functioning retard who wasn't really capable of "Planning".
> 
> ...



Its called a police state….that is what you want…. but it will be used by thugs like you not to stop crime but to impose your will on innocent people.

2019…12 people committed mass public ahootings

2020…2 people comitted mass public shootings

We have over 330 million people…..and you want to ban and confiscate guns 

you are insane


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> You guys had every opportunity to run against her in 2020.
> 
> And failed.



Hey if  you want to vote for the slave rapist party that is your right…. But the blood of those victims is on you


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> How?
> 
> Frankly, the same things were said about the Civil Rights movement, the Women's liberation movement and the gay rights movement. Society turned out to be fine.



Society is not fine.  You have ugly guys running around in dresses, guys kissing each other in the park in front of our children, weirdos in dresses reading stories to our chldren at the library, even gays adopting children normal couples could get.  That's not fine, that's turning our country into a circus freak show.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 13, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> There are a lot of problems with the idea of background checks but one major problem is that it only stops people who have already been convicted of a crime from buying a gun. Background checks do nothing to stop those who are planning their first crime as a mass shooting, or those who have been robbing liquor stores and killing drug dealing competition for years, but have just not yet been convicted.



Leftists hate our Constitution and justice system.  In their commie world, everybody should be considered guilty until they prove their innocence, especially when it comes to leftist causes. That's why Biden's gun proposal was every gun owner need a federal license which includes a psychological check from some anti-gun shrink.  They would not only interview you, but your neighbors, your family, your ex, your coworkers.  

The cost of this psychological test and interviews would be $800.00.  Leftists are fine with that until you ask them if we can do the same with voter-ID.  You can't vote until some shrink interviews you and everybody in your circle.  The cost is $800.00 and then you can obtain a voter-id. 

The entire concept is complete stupidity because many people have issues with their coworkers or ex, and even some with their neighbors.  It was a commie backdoor method to stop good people from being able to buy a firearm.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Its called a police state….that is what you want…. but it will be used by thugs like you not to stop crime but to impose your will on innocent people.



We lock up 2 million people and have trigger happy cops armed like soldiers...  we already have a police state, buddy.   Just not a well-directed one.  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Society is not fine. You have ugly guys running around in dresses, guys kissing each other in the park in front of our children, weirdos in dresses reading stories to our chldren at the library, even gays adopting children normal couples could get. That's not fine, that's turning our country into a circus freak show.



Oh, noes, not guys kissing!!!    Yes, treating gays with dignity is a horrible thing. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Leftists hate our Constitution and justice system. In their commie world, everybody should be considered guilty until they prove their innocence, especially when it comes to leftist causes. That's why Biden's gun proposal was every gun owner need a federal license which includes a psychological check from some anti-gun shrink. They would not only interview you, but your neighbors, your family, your ex, your coworkers.



Um, yeah, that's what they do when you apply for a job.   They give you an interview, they talk to your coworkers...  



Ray From Cleveland said:


> The cost of this psychological test and interviews would be $800.00. Leftists are fine with that until you ask them if we can do the same with voter-ID. You can't vote until some shrink interviews you and everybody in your circle. The cost is $800.00 and then you can obtain a voter-id.



When you can kill someone with a vote, you might have a point.   

While Trump did manage to kill 700,000 people, you can't blame the voters for that one, they said no.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 14, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, yeah, that's what they do when you apply for a job. They give you an interview, they talk to your coworkers...



This isn't about a job, it's about exercising your constitutional rights.  I've had over a half-dozen jobs in my life and not once did any potential employer interview my former coworkers.  

You cannot deny constitutional rights over the opinion of a fellow commie.  That's not how it works.  Even the other commies in the Congress didn't entertain Dementia's plans because they are so unconstitutional.  



JoeB131 said:


> When you can kill someone with a vote, you might have a point.
> 
> While Trump did manage to kill 700,000 people, you can't blame the voters for that one, they said no.



And Biden killed even more.  Put that feather in your hat and dance on the street.


----------



## Claudette (Oct 14, 2021)

JoeB131 
Holy shit. You really are dumber than dirt. In fact I'd say the dirt is smarter than your stupid ass. Good Lord.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 14, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> We lock up 2 million people and have trigger happy cops armed like soldiers...  we already have a police state, buddy.   Just not a well-directed one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Trump didn't kill anyone....the Communist Chinese released a virus that killed millions, and you are still shilling for them...


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 15, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> This isn't about a job, it's about exercising your constitutional rights. I've had over a half-dozen jobs in my life and not once did any potential employer interview my former coworkers.



And today you live in a slum and collect welfare.  

Just because you didn't know about a background check doesn't mean there wasn't one.  Most companies do background checks.  




Ray From Cleveland said:


> You cannot deny constitutional rights over the opinion of a fellow commie. That's not how it works. Even the other commies in the Congress didn't entertain Dementia's plans because they are so unconstitutional.



Again, only a matter of time before we start doing it, buddy.  The rest of us are sick of watching small children being wheeled out in body bags.  




2aguy said:


> Trump didn't kill anyone....the Communist Chinese released a virus that killed millions, and you are still shilling for them...



Ah, when all else fails, be a racist.  I'm hoping you don't go shooting up Happy Ending Massage Parlors like that other racist did to get the evil Chinese.


----------



## 22lcidw (Oct 15, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> We lock up 2 million people and have trigger happy cops armed like soldiers...  we already have a police state, buddy.   Just not a well-directed one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have points about locking up people. We are a self abusive society though. And about Trump killing people. Stop it. Old Joe has killed more and he had the answers. 50 years of Joe. ..And when he is evicted, we get what is worse...the Ho! We owe no allegiance to this.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 15, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> They usually just get someone with a clean record to buy.


In violation of federal law.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 15, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> And today you live in a slum and collect welfare.
> 
> Just because you didn't know about a background check doesn't mean there wasn't one. Most companies do background checks.



They don't ask former coworkers anything.  Quit moving the goalposts when you're backed into a corner. 



JoeB131 said:


> Again, only a matter of time before we start doing it, buddy. The rest of us are sick of watching small children being wheeled out in body bags.



Most of those kids in body bags are victims from gang wars.  You idiots think that by disarming law abiding citizens that's going to stop.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They don't ask former coworkers anything. Quit moving the goalposts when you're backed into a corner.



Again, if you want a real job, you have to get a job that does background checks... but you probably already knew this which is why you refused to leave Bottom Feeder Trucking....  

Yes, part of a background check is talking to coworkers and former bosses.  Now, most employers will limit themselves to just saying that you worked there and whether or not you are eligible for rehire... anything more would get them into trouble.    But coworkers can say anything. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Most of those kids in body bags are victims from gang wars. You idiots think that by disarming law abiding citizens that's going to stop.



Actually, of the 16,000 homicides we have a year, only 2000 are considered "Gang Related" according to the National Gang Task force 






Meanwhile, most victims of homicides either live with or know their killers.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 16, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, if you want a real job, you have to get a job that does background checks... but you probably already knew this which is why you refused to leave Bottom Feeder Trucking....
> 
> Yes, part of a background check is talking to coworkers and former bosses. Now, most employers will limit themselves to just saying that you worked there and whether or not you are eligible for rehire... anything more would get them into trouble. But coworkers can say anything.



Nobody talks to coworkers in background checks.  I've worked for over a half-dozen companies in my life and not once did anybody call me asking about a coworker, and I don't know anybody that has.  Supervisors?  Yes they do, but not coworkers.  



JoeB131 said:


> Actually, of the 16,000 homicides we have a year, only 2000 are considered "Gang Related" according to the National Gang Task force



Now that you know lying doesn't work, your new strategy is moving the goal posts.  You started out with "kids" in body bags and quickly moved that to all homicides.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Nobody talks to coworkers in background checks. I've worked for over a half-dozen companies in my life and not once did anybody call me asking about a coworker, and I don't know anybody that has. Supervisors? Yes they do, but not coworkers.



Okay, when you work for a real company where they give you medical benefits and don't make you live in a slum, they do real background checks...   



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Now that you know lying doesn't work, your new strategy is moving the goal posts. You started out with "kids" in body bags and quickly moved that to all homicides.



Kids in body bags are the most horrific part of the gun culture, guy.  

Most homicides are not gang bangers.  Most of them are people who shoot friends and families over petty arguments.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 16, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, when you work for a real company where they give you medical benefits and don't make you live in a slum, they do real background checks...



Which doesn't include talking to coworkers. 



JoeB131 said:


> Kids in body bags are the most horrific part of the gun culture, guy.
> 
> Most homicides are not gang bangers. Most of them are people who shoot friends and families over petty arguments.



Never said they weren't the most horrific.  What I said is those kids are involved in gang wars or live in a community where those wars go on and are innocent victims.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Which doesn't include talking to coworkers.



It does if you want a real job where they check references.  

Right now, I am trying to get a mortgage for a new place.  Holy shit, are they doing a background check on me right now.   Not sure why. This is my fourth mortgage (sixth if you count home equity loans) I've taken out and all the ones previously I've successfully completed.  I've also completed five car loans over the years, have no debt on my credit cards, etc.  

They STILL want to see every aspect of my economic life right now. 

We really need to hold gun sellers to the same standards. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Never said they weren't the most horrific. What I said is those kids are involved in gang wars or live in a community where those wars go on and are innocent victims.



You mean Sandy Hook Conneticutt?  Yup, that sounds like a real slum.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 17, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> It does if you want a real job where they check references.
> 
> Right now, I am trying to get a mortgage for a new place. Holy shit, are they doing a background check on me right now. Not sure why. This is my fourth mortgage (sixth if you count home equity loans) I've taken out and all the ones previously I've successfully completed. I've also completed five car loans over the years, have no debt on my credit cards, etc.
> 
> ...



Maybe they are giving you such a hard time because you can't understand the difference between the seriousness of borrowing money and a stupid job applicant.  



JoeB131 said:


> You mean Sandy Hook Conneticutt? Yup, that sounds like a real slum.



What I'm talking about takes place every month of every year in this country.  You need to dig up a 15 year old story to try and counter my point?  Fail!


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Maybe they are giving you such a hard time because you can't understand the difference between the seriousness of borrowing money and a stupid job applicant.


Not at all. 

I get why the banks are taking this seriously.. in 2008, they made a bunch of bad loans to wannabee house flippers.  

Same reason why employers do thorough background checks... bad employees cost money.  

When we make the gun industry pay for their bad behavior, they'll start taking it seriously, too. 

Now, I'd probably have had an easier time if I waited for the sale of my current place to go through before trying to buy a new place...  But that's not going to happen until January. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> What I'm talking about takes place every month of every year in this country. You need to dig up a 15 year old story to try and counter my point? Fail!


Sandy Hook was 9 years ago... math is obviously not your strong point, Welfare ray.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 17, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Sandy Hook was 9 years ago... math is obviously not your strong point, Welfare ray.



Fine, 9 years ago OCD Joe.  Same point.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Fine, 9 years ago OCD Joe. Same point.



We've had hundreds of mass shootings since, same point.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Oct 18, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> We've had hundreds of mass shootings since, same point.



Not of children that end up in body bags.  That happens on the streets in liberal places like you and I live in.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Not of children that end up in body bags. That happens on the streets in liberal places like you and I live in.



You mean, places with people in them? 

So why haven't you  moved out of your slum to one of these supposedly nice places?  

(Incidentally, suburb I live in has a very low crime rate.)


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 19, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> While Trump did manage to kill 700,000 people, you can't blame the voters for that one, they said no.


Trump killed 700,00 people?  More people died from the China Virus after Biden took office than did during the Trump administration.  And Biden started with 3 vaccines ready to go.  And those who died during the Trump administration were killed by leftists, not Trump.  Either the Communist Chinese killed them or, for those who might otherwise have survived, the left killed them by denying treatment that could have saved their lives.  No, 700000 deaths are on Biden, either directly or as China's paid enabler.


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 19, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, only a matter of time before we start doing it, buddy.  The rest of us are sick of watching small children being wheeled out in body bags.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just any day now, the left is going to start caring about babies being shot in their mother's arms.  You be sure to let us know when that day comes, OK?  Because we've been waiting for decades and, so far, that day hasn't arrived.  No one knows the day and the hour in which the left will care more about babies than about their communist agenda.

Your suggestion that any criticism of China is based on the race of the people who live there is simply asinine.  We're not blaming Orientals from Japan, Korea, Vietnam, or other nations.  It's not the race, it's the actions.  You're such a racist that you only see race in everything - which is why you're missing the threats because you can't see past the race.


----------



## maybelooking (Oct 19, 2021)

bodecea said:


> People speed all the time......speed limits work?
> 
> ____________________
> *341 days of orange whining*


we should start fining those who obey the speed limit to punish them for the actions of the law breakers!!

that's how gun control works!!!


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Your suggestion that any criticism of China is based on the race of the people who live there is simply asinine. We're not blaming *Orientals* from Japan, Korea, Vietnam, or other nations. It's not the race, it's the actions. You're such a racist that you only see race in everything - which is why you're missing the threats because you can't see past the race.



Okay, guy, when you refer to Asian people as "Orientals",  you really don't get to deny your racism.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> We've had hundreds of mass shootings since, same point.




No...we haven't....gang members, who you seem to love......shooting each other are not mass public shootings.......you have to include them in order to scare uninformed people into giving you power...

US mass shootings, 1982–2021: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases. 
-------


Here is a description of the criteria we use:

The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)* Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).*
Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
----------------------
Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017:  11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


Total killed in each mass public shooting....

Keep in mind....

Deer kill 200 people a year.

Ladders kill 300 people a year.

Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people a year.

Bathtubs kill 350 people a year...

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013..*.29,001*

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...*30,208*
Accidental drowning*.....3,391*
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames*.....2,760*


Someone drowns in a tub nearly every day in America

2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
*2016......71*
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

maybelooking said:


> we should start fining those who obey the speed limit to punish them for the actions of the law breakers!!
> 
> that's how gun control works!!!




Actually......

If you want to use gun grabber logic....

Since so many people speed.....all cars must be banned and confiscated....

Cars killed 39,107 people in 2019......


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.



Why is four dead a magic number?  Why not three. Or two? Why does anyone have to die at all if there are  lot of wounded?  

I mean, I get why you want to define it down buddy. Makes it all look a lot less bad than it actually is.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Actually......
> 
> If you want to use gun grabber logic....
> 
> ...



Wow, do you keep running the same lame arguments hoping they'll work this time? 

Cars aren't designed to kill people.  Guns are.  

But if you want guns regulated like cars, I'm all for mandating licensing, strict policing, mandatory insurance and confiscation of your car if you are an irresponsible twit.  

(This is the part where you whine, BUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!!!"


----------



## woodwork201 (Oct 19, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, guy, when you refer to Asian people as "Orientals",  you really don't get to deny your racism.


Wrong, once again.  There are different races of people in Asia and to lump them all together, pretending there are no differences, denying their race, is racist, racist.  Using a word that describes the general set of people within Asia, the oriental people - orient means East, idiot -

_*Orient : regions or countries lying to the east of a specified or implied point : the eastern regions or countries of the world : EAST sense 2 —formerly understood to include regions (such as the Middle East) lying to the east and southeast of southern Europe but now usually understood to refer to regions and countries of eastern Asia*_​
Many improperly refer orientals as occidentals but occident means west.

If Orient means East, or East Asia in common use, then a person who lives in East Asia is Oriental just as a person who lives in the Americas is American.  

The Wikipedia article on Oriental actually states that some people, like you, are offended when the word is used to refer some people from East Asia.  What the article fails to mention is that the "some people" who are offended are a bunch of American, white, elitist, leftist, Americans.  Sort of like the Washington Redskins.  No Native American or American Indian was offended at the honor of having a team of athletes use them as the warrior symbol of a sports team; only leftist, white, privileged, elitist, Democrats were offended.

Take your offense and stick it up your lily-white ass.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Why is four dead a magic number?  Why not three. Or two? Why does anyone have to die at all if there are  lot of wounded?
> 
> I mean, I get why you want to define it down buddy. Makes it all look a lot less bad than it actually is.



Ask the FBI.  They created the definition you fucking dumb ass.  It was 4 dead, and then obama ordered that it be lowered to 3 since they didnt have enough mass public shootings at 4.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, do you keep running the same lame arguments hoping they'll work this time?
> 
> Cars aren't designed to kill people.  Guns are.
> 
> ...



Now that I have called you out for voting for the actual political party of the slave rapists, you stopped calling the Founders slave rapists….. you idiot.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 19, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, do you keep running the same lame arguments hoping they'll work this time?
> 
> Cars aren't designed to kill people.  Guns are.
> 
> ...



Those arguments show you to be the idiot you are…..you want guns banned when cars kill more people….you have no logical argument


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2021)

woodwork201 said:


> Wrong, once again. There are different races of people in Asia and to lump them all together, pretending there are no differences, denying their race, is racist, racist. Using a word that describes the general set of people within Asia, the oriental people - orient means East, idiot -



Wow, we knew you'd try to justify your racism..  









						'Oriental': Rugs, Not People
					

It's an adjective that used to describe rugs, not people. That's the message New York Gov. David Paterson turned into law this week when he signed a bill that bans state documents from using the term "oriental" when referring to people of Asian or Pacific heritage. Jeff Yang, an Asian Pop...




					www.npr.org
				






2aguy said:


> Ask the FBI. They created the definition you fucking dumb ass. It was 4 dead, and then obama ordered that it be lowered to 3 since they didnt have enough mass public shootings at 4.



Again, the FBI is really good at trying to understate crime in this country... so they don't look as inept as they are. 



2aguy said:


> Now that I have called you out for voting for the actual political party of the slave rapists, you stopped calling the Founders slave rapists….. you idiot.



No, I just didn't say it in that sentence... I'll keep using that phrase for years to come, trust me. 

I was just trying to imitate your inevitable whiny response to the kind of sane gun laws that would probably exclude... you.


----------



## Abatis (Oct 20, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> I mean, I get why you want to define it down buddy. Makes it all look a lot less bad than it actually is.



No matter which numbers you use it is an indictment of leftist gun policy.  

If one uses the restrictive *Mother Jones criteria* *, there just aren't enough shootings to generate hysteria in the gen-pop (125 "mass shootings" in *39 years)*. 

There are other organizations that use different criteria, they might add a few more but it still doesn't give the anti's the shock headlines they want and need.

Well, the number that has been settled on by most DEMedia and politicians is the tally kept by the *Gun Violence Archive* ** because that gives the anti-gunner's the easy headlines like "_there have been 572 "mass shootings" to date this year_" (that's the actual total as of Oct. 18th) or the ubiquitous "_there's been a "mass shooting" a day this year_" . . .  

Problem is, using GVA's number destroys the left's "Whitey on a rampage" narrative because most of those "mass shooting" _shooters_, are POC's . . .  So, anti-gunners are caught in a dilemma; herald the GVA's number, frame it in as shocking manner as you can but whatever you do, don't _ever _suggest anyone look at the particulars of the incidents!  


* Mother Jones criteria:  3+ shot and killed in one incident, excluding the perpetrator(s), at a public place, excluding gang-related killings

** Gun Violence Archive criteria: a minimum of four victims shot, either injured or killed, not including any shooter who may also have been killed or injured in the incident.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 20, 2021)

Abatis said:


> * Mother Jones criteria:  3+ shot and killed in one incident, excluding the perpetrator(s), at a public place, excluding gang-related killings


It was 4+ killed; MJ changed it to 3+ to follow along with The Obama administrations change of definition.
He dropped it from 4+ to 3+ because 4+ wasn't generating enough outrage.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2021)

Abatis said:


> No matter which numbers you use it is an indictment of leftist gun policy.
> 
> If one uses the restrictive *Mother Jones criteria* *, there just aren't enough shootings to generate hysteria in the gen-pop (125 "mass shootings" in *39 years)*.



Well, I don't.   It's a horseshit criteria.  Mass shooting should be when more than one person gets shot, and we have hundreds of those a year.  

We have 600 mass shootings every year. 
We have 16,000 gun homicides
We have 43,000 gun deaths
We have 70,000 gun injuries
We have 400,000 gun crimes committed a year
We have 280 BILLION in economic losses. 
We have to build our whole society around the fetish of a minority, from Active Shooter Drills in our schools to Security Doors in our workplaces.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, I don't.   It's a horseshit criteria.  Mass shooting should be when more than one person gets shot, and we have hundreds of those a year.
> 
> We have 600 mass shootings every year.
> We have 16,000 gun homicides
> ...




We don't have 600 mass public shootings every year...you are lying....

US mass shootings, 1982–2021: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases. 
-------


Here is a description of the criteria we use:

The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)* Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).*
Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
----------------------
Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017:  11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1

*US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation*




Deaths in actual mass public shootings... ( someone do the math and tell us what percent of 10,235 the number 73 equals.....)



2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
*2016......71*
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, I don't.   It's a horseshit criteria.  Mass shooting should be when more than one person gets shot, and we have hundreds of those a year.
> 
> We have 600 mass shootings every year.
> We have 16,000 gun homicides
> ...




You are an idiot....

600 million guns in private hands......over 21.25 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



American use those legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Gun suicides... 23,491...





Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.



Lives saved....based on research?  By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





 that makes for _at least_ 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 _trillion_ per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns


----------



## Abatis (Oct 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, I don't.   It's a horseshit criteria.



Well, I don't either.  The Mother Jones is one criteria of many and if one only wants to look at incidents of a random public shooter committing mass murder, (not involving family or gang activity), it is a useful, worthwhile compilation.  

It is useful because if you polled ordinary people on the street and asked them how they defined a "mass shooting", it would be a Parkland or Texas Walmart or San Bernadino . . .   It wouldn't be the drug corner drive-by's or stash house rip-squad clean-outs that happen twice a week in damn near every Democrat-run urban hellhole.



JoeB131 said:


> Mass shooting should be when more than one person gets shot, and we have hundreds of those a year.



If "more than one shot not necessarily killed"  was the criteria, we would have thousands . . .   like you say at the current criteria being 4 shot (not necessary killed), it pushes the number up into the 600's.  

I doubt if lowering the criteria would help your "side".  If anything, it would shine a spotlight on the current high levels of urban gun crime, and focus it on the racial disparity in victims (and offenders) which, to reasoned, thinking people, shows that the gun control you want to enact and enforce, would do nothing to reduce that crime.

The 2019 gun homicide rate for young Black males is nearly 17 times that for young non-Hispanic White males.  

Screengrabs from the CDC's WISQARS tool, WISQARS Fatal Injury Reports .


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 21, 2021)

Abatis said:


> Well, I don't either.  The Mother Jones is one criteria of many and if one only wants to look at incidents of a random public shooter committing mass murder, (not involving family or gang activity), it is a useful, worthwhile compilation.
> 
> It is useful because if you polled ordinary people on the street and asked them how they defined a "mass shooting", it would be a Parkland or Texas Walmart or San Bernadino . . .   It wouldn't be the drug corner drive-by's or stash house rip-squad clean-outs that happen twice a week in damn near every Democrat-run urban hellhole.
> 
> ...




Yep......

leftists like joe realize that gang and other criminal shootings occur in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......most normal people do not live in those places and they also realize that the violence in these democrat party controlled areas does not affect them........

Mass public shootings, however, can be spun in a way to make it seem that they can happen anywhere, at anytime....reaching normal people .....when, in fact, this is not true...

In a country of over 330 million people...12 people committed mass public shootings in 2019....so the rarest of rare events...but the type of event leftists like joe need to lie about in order to get normal people to give them the power to ban and confiscate guns.....


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 21, 2021)

Abatis said:


> Well, I don't either.  The Mother Jones is one criteria of many and if one only wants to look at incidents of a random public shooter committing mass murder, (not involving family or gang activity), it is a useful, worthwhile compilation.
> 
> It is useful because if you polled ordinary people on the street and asked them how they defined a "mass shooting", it would be a Parkland or Texas Walmart or San Bernadino . . .   It wouldn't be the drug corner drive-by's or stash house rip-squad clean-outs that happen twice a week in damn near every Democrat-run urban hellhole.
> 
> ...




That is the danger they face...when they have to include daily criminal shootings in the mass public shooting number, they reveal that young black males are doing almost all of them.....since 12 people committed mass public shootings in 2019, not all of them were white males....but with a population of 7%....young black males shooting other young black males is over 50% of the murder rate...including spray and pray shootings at neighborhood parties, nightclubs and other on the street acts of violence by criminals and gangs...


----------



## Abatis (Oct 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Yep......
> 
> leftists like joe realize that gang and other criminal shootings occur in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......most normal people do not live in those places and they also realize that the violence in these democrat party controlled areas does not affect them........
> 
> Mass public shootings, however, can be spun in a way to make it seem that they can happen anywhere, at anytime....reaching normal people .....when, in fact, this is not true..



That's the magic of using the ''4 or more shot" criteria', it permits the use of the large total to shock the public and sway opinion but nobody on the left ever want to discuss what's under the hood of the number.  

Doing that would expose the fact that what drives most "mass shootings" is what drives most murder, young male urban criminals shooting *AT* other young male urban criminals over shit that only young male urban criminals care about.  

Problem is, they hit a high number of innocent bystanders and 'non-combatants'.

There is another compiler of mass shooting incidents (*Mass-Shootings Info*) that is useful because it puts together a mosaic mug shots of every person convicted, charged or wanted in connection with the shooting of 4+ people or who died before they could be charged.  

That makes for an extremely interesting visual representation, here's 2019:


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 21, 2021)

Abatis said:


> That's the magic of using the ''4 or more shot" criteria', it permits the use of the large total to shock the public and sway opinion but nobody on the left ever want to discuss what's under the hood of the number.
> 
> Doing that would expose the fact that what drives most "mass shootings" is what drives most murder, young male urban criminals shooting *AT* other young male urban criminals over shit that only young male urban criminals care about.
> 
> ...




The problem with that one is it aids the anti-gunners in perpetuating the lie that "Mass public shootings," where an individual goes to a public place with the sole intent on murdering innocents, with the actual criminal shootings.......where they are simply shooting at other criminals....with no connection to normal people.......


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> We don't have 600 mass public shootings every year...you are lying....



Sure we do...  you just want to define it up to exclude anything where less than 4 people die. 

I kind of get that... if every mass shooting made the news, we might actually do something about it. 

The sad thing is, we hear, "Well, they shot 10 people, but only 3 of them dies... so no big deal."


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2021)

Abatis said:


> That's the magic of using the ''4 or more shot" criteria', it permits the use of the large total to shock the public and sway opinion but nobody on the left ever want to discuss what's under the hood of the number.
> 
> Doing that would expose the fact that what drives most "mass shootings" is what drives most murder, young male urban criminals shooting *AT* other young male urban criminals over shit that only young male urban criminals care about.
> 
> Problem is, they hit a high number of innocent bystanders and 'non-combatants'.



So it doesn't count if it's only darkies getting shot. 

Got it.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure we do...  you just want to define it up to exclude anything where less than 4 people die.
> 
> I kind of get that... if every mass shooting made the news, we might actually do something about it.
> 
> The sad thing is, we hear, "Well, they shot 10 people, but only 3 of them dies... so no big deal."




Tell that to the FBI, shithead they defined mass public shooting.....they are members of your god, "The government," so you should obey what they tell you...........even when obama lowered the number  to 3 killed they couldn't get enough to scare people ....so they continue to mix gang shootings in with mass public shootings......

12 in 2019.

10 in 2018.

2 in 2020.

Out of over 330 million people...


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> So it doesn't count if it's only darkies getting shot.
> 
> Got it.




Funny how you are the one constantly using the word "darkie" when referring to black Americans....your racism is showing...


----------



## Abatis (Oct 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> So it doesn't count if it's only darkies getting shot.
> 
> Got it.



It isn't that it "doesn't count", it's that your remedy won't work.  

Just throwing "gun control" on the problem of urban gun violence is futile, given the places where these problems are worst, already have plenty of laws restricting the possession and carriage in public of guns.

.


----------



## marvin martian (Oct 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Two gang members went into gun stores, filled out the Federally mandated paperwork.....and were allowed to buy guns.....
> 
> gun control.....works just as expected...
> 
> ...



Hunter Biden did the same thing.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Tell that to the FBI, shithead they defined mass public shooting.....they are members of your god, "The government," so you should obey what they tell you...........even when obama lowered the number to 3 killed they couldn't get enough to scare people ....so they continue to mix gang shootings in with mass public shootings......



This is the same FBI that denied for years that the Mafia was a real thing.  The same FBI that was less than forthcoming about using incendiaries at Waco.  

The FBI needs serious reform.... which has nothing to do with the fact that we have 600 incidents year where more than one person is shot... hence a mass shooting.  



2aguy said:


> Funny how you are the one constantly using the word "darkie" when referring to black Americans....your racism is showing...



I'm not the one downplaying the human carnage inflicted on people of color by your fetish.. that would be you. 




Abatis said:


> It isn't that it "doesn't count", it's that your remedy won't work.
> 
> Just throwing "gun control" on the problem of urban gun violence is futile, given the places where these problems are worst, already have plenty of laws restricting the possession and carriage in public of guns.



Except gun control works just fine in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Japan and every other advanced country that does it.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> This is the same FBI that denied for years that the Mafia was a real thing.  The same FBI that was less than forthcoming about using incendiaries at Waco.
> 
> The FBI needs serious reform.... which has nothing to do with the fact that we have 600 incidents year where more than one person is shot... hence a mass shooting.
> 
> ...




No...gun control is not working in those countries.....the British police state that guns are flooding into Britain, the weapon of choice for French criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, Canada has seen a spike in shootings, and Japan finally took action against the Yakuza...who used fully automatic weapons in their last gang war that ended around 2013.....they now put people who use guns in prison for life....while in the U.S.....the democrat prosecutor kim foxx won't even press charges against 5 gang members caught on video shooting at each other...

It isn't guns or normal gun owners causing our gun crime issues.....we have a problem with the democrat party attacking the police...something you won't see in Japan, and releasing violent gun criminals no matter how many times they are arrested...something you also won't see in Japan since their conviction rate is over 95%....and criminals caught with mere possession of an illegal gun actually go to prison for 15 years.......if they use the gun for a crime it is life........

We have a democrat party problem...


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> This is the same FBI that denied for years that the Mafia was a real thing.  The same FBI that was less than forthcoming about using incendiaries at Waco.
> 
> The FBI needs serious reform.... which has nothing to do with the fact that we have 600 incidents year where more than one person is shot... hence a mass shooting.
> 
> ...




Those "advanced," countries?  Germany murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children over about a 6 year period....Britain, France and the other Europeans took guns away from their citizens then handed people over to the socialists for murder...

More people were murdered by the government of Germany, with the submission of the other European countries, than in 82 years of U.S. criminals murdering each other with guns....

We have nothing to learn from the Europeans, or Japan, who murdered 3 million innocent men, women and children and conducted medical experiments on those same civilians.......sell that to biden voters...


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 23, 2021)

2aguy said:


> No...gun control is not working in those countries.....the British police state that guns are flooding into Britain, the weapon of choice for French criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, Canada has seen a spike in shootings, and Japan finally took action against the Yakuza...who used fully automatic weapons in their last gang war that ended around 2013.....they now put people who use guns in prison for life....while in the U.S.....the democrat prosecutor kim foxx won't even press charges against 5 gang members caught on video shooting at each other...



Japan can throw assholes who use gun in prison for life because owning a gun is illegal in Japan.  Has been since the Meiji Restoration. 

Kim Foxx can't throw gang members in prison because they had a GOD GIVEN RIGHT to a gun and the cops can't tell her who shot first. 






2aguy said:


> Those "advanced," countries? Germany murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children over about a 6 year period....Britain, France and the other Europeans took guns away from their citizens then handed people over to the socialists for murder...
> 
> More people were murdered by the government of Germany, with the submission of the other European countries, than in 82 years of U.S. criminals murdering each other with guns....



Uh, guy, we enslaved black people and genocided the Native Americans.  At least the Germans have the decency to be sorry about it.    We can't even take major cocksucker Andrew Jackson off the $20 bill.  

Oh, the Germans had plenty of guns during the war... and most of them fought for Hitler to the last old man and little boy.  The Allies had to take their guns away.  




2aguy said:


> We have nothing to learn from the Europeans, or Japan, who murdered 3 million innocent men, women and children and conducted medical experiments on those same civilians.......sell that to biden voters...



Again. Slavery. Native American Genocide.  The Philippine War, Vietnam, Iraq. Every country has something really shitty in it's history. 

Guns don't stop people from acting shitty, they sometimes make it easier.


----------



## Abatis (Oct 23, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Except gun control works just fine in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Japan and every other advanced country that does it.



You provided an answer that proves you have no clue.

The gun control in many nations, especially European, has been in effect for a long, long time and was put in place for political control not crime control.

Yes, it is a fact that nations with disarmed homogeneous, obedient and compliant subjects don't use guns to kill each other, but that isn't really a case study for enacting gun control *here*. Even in those nations the recent remedy of more "gun control" as a response to increased criminal misuse of guns, are ineffective and stupid.

Population sectors in those nations who do not have a nationalistic, instilled deference to the government, simply don't pay attention to those centuries old norms and the criminally inclined seek to evade and exploit those mere statutory hurdles.  Just look at the Jamaican Yardies and Eastern European crime syndicates in the UK and the Assyrian Kings gang and its offshoots in Australia, they are not impacted in the least by the home nation's strict gun control . . .

The thought that the gun crime that is heavily concentrated in certain population sectors could be reduced by enacting more statutory prohibitions on everyone, including those who are not perpetrating the crime, shows a real lack of critical thinking a profound misunderstanding of crime and human nature. 

High gun crime within insular population sectors is immune to blanket gun control.

To just say we (in the USA) need gun control while refusing to examine the behavioral and cultural reasons why gun crime is so prevalent, is dumb and will be celebrated by criminals and resented by the law-abiding who are not part of the problem.

Why did 1.7% of the US population experience 29.4% of the gun murders in 2019? 

Is it just the availability of guns?  If it was just the availability of guns why isn't the gun murder rate a constant across all demographic sectors?  Why do young White men have a gun murder rate that is 20X lower than young Black men?


Screengrabs from CDC WISQARS Fatal Injury Reports:


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 23, 2021)

Abatis said:


> You provided an answer that proves you have no clue.
> 
> The gun control in many nations, especially European, has been in effect for a long, long time and was put in place for political control not crime control.



Oh, look, you are doing the Dick2Tiny method of spamming the board with garbage.  

Actually, 1920 Germany probably had as many guns as 1920 America.  While they were passing sensible gun laws (or having gun laws imposed on them after WWII), we had the National Rampage Association flooding our street with Assault Rifles and Saturday Night Specials. 



Abatis said:


> Yes, it is a fact that nations with disarmed homogeneous, obedient and compliant subjects don't use guns to kill each other, but that isn't really a case study for enacting gun control *here*. Even in those nations the recent remedy of more "gun control" as a response to increased criminal misuse of guns, are ineffective and stupid.



Wait, wait..





I'll take their gun numbers against our any day of the week, thank you. 



Abatis said:


> Population sectors in those nations who do not have a nationalistic, instilled deference to the government, simply don't pay attention to those centuries old norms and the criminally inclined seek to evade and exploit those mere statutory hurdles. Just look at the Jamaican Yardies and Eastern European crime syndicates in the UK and the Assyrian Kings gang and its offshoots in Australia, they are not impacted in the least by the home nation's strict gun control . . .



The UK had 32 Gun homicides in 2015, the last year we have numbers for on GunPolicy.org
Australia had 39 in 2019. 
The US had 14389 in 2019. 

The problem here isn't "the gangs"... your perpetual fear of "the other", which yes, is engrained in this racist country.   

The problem is that 87% of homicides are committed by family members or people the victim knows... 

Guns just make that a lot easier.... 

So will it stop the gangs fighting over who gets to run the Crystal Meth trade on the west side? Nope.
Will it stop that murder that resulted from a fight in the morning over who ate the last donut?  Probably. 



Abatis said:


> Is it just the availability of guns? If it was just the availability of guns why isn't the gun murder rate a constant across all demographic sectors? Why do young White men have a gun murder rate that is 20X lower than young Black men?



I was wondering how long it was going to take the racism to take hold.


----------



## Abatis (Oct 23, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, look, you are doing the Dick2Tiny method of spamming the board with garbage.
> 
> Actually, 1920 Germany probably had as many guns as 1920 America.  While they were passing sensible gun laws (or having gun laws imposed on them after WWII),



So you call my points garbage spam and then proceed to confirm my point.  I'm not certain a thank you is in order though.



JoeB131 said:


> I'll take their gun numbers against our any day of the week, thank you.



And no doubt you would welcome the lack of restrictions on the police power those nations enjoy, allowing them to throw people in jail for life, without any of the rights of the accused US citizens enjoy.  As much as you would prefer not announcing it, your statist authoritarian tyranny is a package deal . . .  It ain't just altruistic, caring, we're just looking out for your health and safety, "gun control" you are promoting . . .



JoeB131 said:


> The problem here isn't "the gangs"... your perpetual fear of "the other", which yes, is engrained in this racist country.



Effectively addressing crime is being handicapped by so much of the governing structure being preoccupied with avoiding at all cost, being called racist . . .  This of course forces a policing and prosecutorial agenda that refuses to deal with criminals and they congratulate themselves on that "progress".



JoeB131 said:


> The problem is that 87% of homicides are committed by family members or people the victim knows...



Citation please, with links and provide an official definition of terms and if you would like, your personal definition of terms.



JoeB131 said:


> So will it stop the gangs fighting over who gets to run the Crystal Meth trade on the west side? Nope.
> Will it stop that murder that resulted from a fight in the morning over who ate the last donut?  Probably.



And that is a guess based on wishful thinking at best and a blatant fabrication to advance an agenda hostile to the rights of the citizen at worst.



JoeB131 said:


> I was wondering how long it was going to take the racism to take hold.



I was wondering what rote leftist gruel you would throw out so you could dance around and evade answering my questions.

Facts aren't racist.


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 23, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Japan can throw assholes who use gun in prison for life because owning a gun is illegal in Japan.  Has been since the Meiji Restoration.
> 
> Kim Foxx can't throw gang members in prison because they had a GOD GIVEN RIGHT to a gun and the cops can't tell her who shot first.
> 
> ...




No......the Yakuza ignored the laws until they increased the actual prison time for using illegal guns....how do we know?  The Yakuza tell us.........

Here, in the U.S...again......5 gang members engage in a shootout...on video......two of them are found at the scene on the ground wounded....and kim foxx, the democrat party prosecutor, refuses to press charges against any of them....

In Japan, they would go to prison for life........they would be off the streets for life........

The democrat party here in the U.S. allows violent gun crime to continue...you would have to explain that one.......normal gun owners aren't shooting anyone....

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols

*Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.*
*
“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”


The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.
Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.


Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. 

If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.
-----*
*A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. 

You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”*

The democrat party prosecutors and judges keep releasing, often without bail.....repeat gun offenders...

In Japan, if you are caught with an illegal gun, you are not released, you are not put on an ankel monitor that you can simply get rid of so you can go out and keep shooting people.....

In Japan, mere possession is 10 years...and you do the 10 years....you do not get released the day after you are arrested...you are not given home confinement...you are not diverted to an anti-violence program...you do 10 years....and if you fire that gun....life in prison...


*Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.


Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. *


----------



## 2aguy (Oct 23, 2021)

Abatis said:


> You provided an answer that proves you have no clue.
> 
> The gun control in many nations, especially European, has been in effect for a long, long time and was put in place for political control not crime control.
> 
> ...




Thank you......you explained it in a way I never am able to explain it....thanks....


----------

