# 1896 Film of Palestine and Jerusalem.



## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Kind of shoots down the propaganda that claims the Europeans settled an empty country.


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## Rikurzhen (Oct 8, 2014)

What was the population breakdown in 5 AD?


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Roman citizens.


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Christian of course as of 380 AD.


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## R.D. (Oct 8, 2014)

The narrator states Jews form half the population of Jerusalem


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Well, that's a change. The Israel Firsters claim that Jews have always been a majority in Jerusalem.  They were not a majority even after the Zionist invasion it appears.  And, the narrator confirms that Muslims were 85% and Christians 10% and Jews less than 5% of the population of Palestine.  Also, it confirms that the Jews were Arab Jews that spoke Arabic.  This is a great find.  The Israel Firsters will have to find something else to deny the facts. LOL


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## JoeB131 (Oct 8, 2014)

The Zionist Answer..

But...but..but... Hitler.


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## Humanity (Oct 8, 2014)

A great piece of photographic history!

Whether the actual % Muslim/Christian/Jew is correct or not is for debate, the important part message is that Palestine was not devoid of inhabitants as is commonly suggested on this forum...

Of course Palestine was not devoid of inhabitants of ALL religions... It is a convenient 'misconception' by those who find it an easy 'point' that they feel that Palestine was empty and without ownership.

The fact remains that, by and large, the mixed culture in Palestine was, firstly mixed, secondly, on the whole, tolerant.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?



So you'd support dissolving the US and returning it the Indians?


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> montelatici said:
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> > 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?
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Too late for that.  The Indians (as you call them) were put on reservations, at least the ones we didn't kill.  There is hope for the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.


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## theliq (Oct 8, 2014)

R.D. said:


> The narrator states Jews form half the population of Jerusalem


So.....then 10% Christians and 85% Muslim in Palestine.....So your point is ???????? Jews were a miniscule Minority.........Their claim that NO ONE inhabited Palestine.....which was taught to generations of Jewish Israelis since 1948 was infactual Bullshit..steve


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Humanity said:


> A great piece of photographic history!
> 
> Whether the actual % Muslim/Christian/Jew is correct or not is for debate, the important part message is that Palestine was not devoid of inhabitants as is commonly suggested on this forum...
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It is not up for debate at all because there was only circa 4.3 % of Jews inhabiting Palestine at that time.....5% was a rounding figure


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## José (Oct 9, 2014)

It's not up for debate as theliq said... and everybody here (except Montelatici) is neglecting the fact that most of these 5% were palestinian jews, the only native Jews of Palestine...

Individuals who had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of Israel, much to the contrary... they vehemently opposed it.

For the purpose of "justifying" the state of Israel, arab Jews must be totally disregarded, ignored if you are debating the issue in good faith... and we all know a lot of people don't.

Only the european Jews who conceived the idea of a jewish state and implemented it decades later should be counted as the jewish population of Palestine as far as the zionist movement and the founding of Israel is concerned.

The askhenazim (Israel's founders) did not make up 5% of Palestine's population by any stretch.... try 0,5%.

The palestinian Jew who appears praying in Jerusalem in this extraordinary, fantastic video must be rolling in his grave seeing zionists today cynically, dishonestly (mis)using his historic presence in Palestine to justify Israel's creation, to present Palestine as the historic "homeland" of Ukrainians, Belarussians and Poles.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?





 Cant see any big badges on the people walking streets saying muslim or Christian. So how can you say that it is only muslims and Christians we can see ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Kind of shoots down the propaganda that claims the Europeans settled an empty country.





 Not really as the films narrative is unsubstantiated by history


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> > 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?
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How Silly......Now you are proposing Jews(Palestinian Jews) were Arabs......infact all these peoples and different religions were living in harmony


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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Total Rubbish.......As Usual


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> > 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?
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Only the Nazis used badges for Jews(a yellow star of David) in this footage,Palestinian Jews lived in Harmony..with others....you FOOL.


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

José_LA said:


> It's not up for debate as theliq said... and everybody here (except Montelatici) is neglecting the fact that most of these 5% were palestinian jews, the only native Jews of Palestine...
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> Individuals who had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of Israel, much to the contrary... they vehemently opposed it.
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Outstanding and True post........Well done Jose..steven


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> montelatici said:
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> > 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?
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Well it couldn't be any worse.........could it ??????


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Humanity said:


> A great piece of photographic history!
> 
> Whether the actual % Muslim/Christian/Jew is correct or not is for debate, the important part message is that Palestine was not devoid of inhabitants as is commonly suggested on this forum...
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In the 1860's the French were in the throes of a major famine,the Minister of Trade of France at the time.."Thanked the Palestinians for the exportation of FREE Wheat and Oranges"  to France.....which contributed to the famines END.  Fact


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Well, that's a change. The Israel Firsters claim that Jews have always been a majority in Jerusalem.  They were not a majority even after the Zionist invasion it appears.  And, the narrator confirms that Muslims were 85% and Christians 10% and Jews less than 5% of the population of Palestine.  Also, it confirms that the Jews were Arab Jews that spoke Arabic.  This is a great find.  The Israel Firsters will have to find something else to deny the facts. LOL


Even with all the Zionist Bullshit,for Bullshit is what it is......there were 100,000's of thousands more Palestinians in Palestine than Jews from outside,mainly Europe but these were not and NEVER have been Semitic Jews...only The Sephardic and Palestinians are Semitic People......Most Jews today are NOT SEMITIC but they surely are Anti-Semitic.


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> > 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?
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This Brilliant Original Footage Makes every pro Jewish/Israeli/Zionist poster on here over the past 5 years,who has spewed Total Shit... Ad-Nausium exactly that.....Total Lying Bullshit Artists....but I told you Guys and Ladies YEARS AGO......Vindication is a Great Thing


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## Challenger (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


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Not strictly true. The were Ottoman dress regulations for Jewish and Christian subjects of the Empire, who were supposed to wear "ghiyar" or identifying bages or symbols to denote their religion as well as restricting clothes to specific colours, although the evidence was these were not strictly enforced.


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## Challenger (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?



Nice bit of historical film, although sadly it proves very little, other than the scant Jewish presence at the time, especially Ashkenazi Europeans.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 That's if the Palestinians don't ethnically cleanse the remaining 2% of the population  of Palestinian Christians first


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Challenger said:


> montelatici said:
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One just has to nod ones head at such Drivel


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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How obnoxious and Banal!!!!!!!!!


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


> R.D. said:
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 And as monti has shown only 0.8% of the land was owned by arab muslims while the Jews owned 4.8%. Now why do you think that was ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


> Humanity said:
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 As you said because of CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW it is not up for debate. The legal land owners bequeathed the land for the RESURECTED JEWISH NATIONAL HOME and made provision for the arab muslims and Christians in the plans. It was the arab muslims that breached the rules of the mandate when they declared war on the Jews. The arab muslims were bequeathed the lands of Jordan, Syria and Iraq to turn into homelands.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

José_LA said:


> It's not up for debate as theliq said... and everybody here (except Montelatici) is neglecting the fact that most of these 5% were palestinian jews, the only native Jews of Palestine...
> 
> Individuals who had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of Israel, much to the contrary... they vehemently opposed it.
> 
> ...





 The Jews that were ethnically cleansed from the Ukraine, Belarussia and Poland were still Jews that had genetic and cultural ties to Palestine. They were invited to come to Palestine and settle first by the Ottomans and then by the LoN, so they did not found Israel as that was all down to the LoN who bequeathed the land TO ALL THE WORLDS JEWS.
 According to the links provided by team Palestine the "Zionist invaders" outnumbered the resident Jews and amounted for 32% of the population of Palestine. Now considering that under the mandate and UN res 181 the arabs were allocated 95% of the land area and the Jews just 5% it shows that the Jews were under provisioned by the wiles of the arab nationalists who stole whole tracts of Jewish owned land in 1948/1949.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


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 In 1948 Jews made up 32% of the population of Palestine as shown by the same census much loved by team palestina


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

Challenger said:


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 The dhimmi laws and the Pact of Omar dictated dress codes and were a non muslim could walk, live, eat and sleep. The Germans took these Islamic laws and altered them to suit the new National socialist workers party regime.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

Challenger said:


> montelatici said:
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> > 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?
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 Yet the many historical documants show that Jews were in the majority from 1882 to 1948 when they were forcibly evicted by the Palestinians

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



YearJewsMuslimsChristiansTotalOriginal SourceAs quoted in18829,0007,0005,00021,000WilsonKark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[12]188515,0006,00014,00035,000GoldmannKark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[12]1893>50% ? ?~40,000Albert Shaw, WriterShaw, 1894 [36]189628,1128,5608,74845,420Calendar of Palestine for the year 5656Harrel and Stendel, 1974190513,30011,0008,10032,4001905 Ottoman census (only Ottoman citizens)U.O.Schmelz[37]192233,97113,41314,66962,578Census of Palestine (British)Harrel and Stendel, 1974193151,20019,90019,30090,053Census of Palestine (British)Harrel and Stendel, 1974194497,00030,60029,400157,000 ?Harrel and Stendel, 19741967195,70054,96312,646263,307 Harrel, 1974
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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


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 Or look for the real facts and hang your head in shame



YearJewsMuslimsChristiansTotalOriginal SourceAs quoted in18829,0007,0005,00021,000WilsonKark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[12]188515,0006,00014,00035,000GoldmannKark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[12]1893>50% ? ?~40,000Albert Shaw, WriterShaw, 1894 [36]189628,1128,5608,74845,420Calendar of Palestine for the year 5656Harrel and Stendel, 1974190513,30011,0008,10032,4001905 Ottoman census (only Ottoman citizens)U.O.Schmelz[37]192233,97113,41314,66962,578Census of Palestine (British)Harrel and Stendel, 1974193151,20019,90019,30090,053Census of Palestine (British)Harrel and Stendel, 1974194497,00030,60029,400157,000 ?Harrel and Stendel, 19741967195,70054,96312,646263,307 Harrel, 1974
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Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


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 They have already ethnically cleansed Palestine of Jews in 1948/1949 and now they are ethnically cleansing Christians. They have managed to ethnically cleanse 10% of the Palestinian population in recent years, all of which have been Christians. This leaves just 2% of the Palestinian population being non muslim, a clear cut case of genocide and ethnic cleansing that team Palestine refuse's point blank to believe.


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## Challenger (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Ah, Wikipedia. Interesting how there's a sudden upsurge in 1896 and all of a sudden in 1905 a 50% drop then in 1922 a 50% rise. The reality is that there was no reliable demographic of the area until the British 1922 census. Also the "Jewish" figures do not differentiate between the native sephardic population and the European Ashkenazi colonists.


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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You stupid Prick,such inane table......I will furnish you with the truth later..........fancy you saying "Hang your head in Shame"....You Dickhead


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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O Yeah,and Jews collaborated with Hitler to EXTERMINATE innocent Jewish people......You are a Fcuking disgrace to the Jews/Israelis and everyone on this board......Prick


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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 Moron


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Phoeny all Wrong Again....here are so Real Facts for you,being as you are a total illiterate.....The British Land Statistics carried out in late 1945....below

The Land Measurement at the time was the "DUNUM" in Palestine,.... for those who only deal in inches,feet,yards,chains,furlongs and all.Of course you still have not metricated like the rest of the world..never mind.

Jews owned 1,491,699 Dunums of Land which was close to Monti's figure but slightly higher at 5.67%(mostly purchased from Palestinians by the Zionist Terrorist Movement over a 20 year period prior to 1945.

Palestinian Arabs(all religions) owned 12,574,774 Dunums of Land equating to 47.77% of the Land (Fcuk knows where Monti gets a figure of 0.8%,maybe he will explain)

The British considered 11,950,650 Dunums of Land being 45.4% to be "Public Land" most of it in the "Dry South, Arid Part"

The remaining 1.16% or 305,892 Dunums consisted of Roads,Railways,Rivers,Lakes etc,.

Basically the Jews owned fcuk all..........The trouble with Pricks like Phoeny and his Possee,they try to lie to you blatantly.......but I and many others stand like Sentinels  against their corrupt and Bullshit posts............I was born a Winner.......well against this rabble it's not too difficult.Shame they cannot be Honest,that's the trouble with people riddled with Guiltiness.....They Have To Lie Continually to Justify Their Sorry Life/ASSEs...I'm theliq keeping the bastards honest...Yet Again


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

Challenger said:


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Why are you so surprised by such DRIVEL ...........If something doesn't sound right,it's because isn't right..steve


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## teddyearp (Oct 9, 2014)

So, are you folks saying that these 'European Jews' are converts to Judaism?  That they have no ties whatsoever to the land at all?  They are not descendants of Abraham?  Never came from the area?


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## aris2chat (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Kind of shoots down the propaganda that claims the Europeans settled an empty country.




Half a million in the whole country, we knew that.  The area used to have a population was several million in the Roman period.  Mandate determined the land could sustain a population of over 7 million.  At that time 70% of the mandate swamp, desert and rocky hillsides, not suitable for cultivation.
Potential for 7 million on 30% of the mandate of palestine but it only held half a million........ a land without a people.  That is like saying a classroom the size of a football field with 2 students and at least 28 desks.  Kind of empty.
It also mentioned that half the population of Jerusalem was jewish.


>>uproar that erupted throughout the Arab world over the use of a map with Israel's name on it is yet another reminder that many Arabs still have not come to terms with Israel's existence -- and apparently are not interested in coming to terms with it.

The protestors were not demanding a two-state solution and an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They were protesting against Israel's existence; that is what really bothers them.<<
 Remove Israel from That Map


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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85% Muslim 15% Christian and 5% Jew after years of immigration by 1896.


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## José (Oct 9, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> So, are you folks saying that these 'European Jews' are converts to Judaism?  That they have no ties whatsoever to the land at all?  They are not descendants of Abraham?  Never came from the area?



Ignore the personal opinions of your fellow members, ignore "genetic tests" paid for by the state of Israel or zionist groups or pro-palestinians that are not worth a roll of toilet paper anyway.

Ignore everything and just let your eyes be the judge, teddy:

*UKRAINIAN JEWS*












You don't need any genetic test to realise the only genetic ties these 5 individuals have is to Sweden, Norway and Denmark where their viking ancestors came from.

Just a pair of functional eyes and a bit of common sense.


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## José (Oct 9, 2014)

These individuals claiming Palestine as the homeland of their ancestors would be a good joke if it weren't so tragic... if so many people hadn't died because of this fable.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?



It doesn't shoot down that Muslims invaded, like they did almost everywhere else.  So you get your numbers from youtube?  Ha ha ha.  Here are some legit numbers, retard:

*Jews as absolute or relative majority in Jerusalem*

YearJewsMuslimsChristiansTotalOriginal SourceAs quoted in18829,0007,0005,00021,000WilsonKark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[12]188515,0006,00014,00035,000GoldmannKark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[12]1893>50%??~40,000Albert Shaw, WriterShaw, 1894 [36]*1896**28,112**8,560**8,748**45,420**Calendar of Palestine for the year 5656**Harrel and Stendel, 1974*190513,30011,0008,10032,4001905 Ottoman census (only Ottoman citizens)U.O.Schmelz[37]192233,97113,41314,66962,578Census of Palestine (British)Harrel and Stendel, 1974193151,20019,90019,30090,053Census of Palestine (British)Harrel and Stendel, 1974194497,00030,60029,400157,000?Harrel and Stendel, 1974
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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

José_LA said:


> teddyearp said:
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> > So, are you folks saying that these 'European Jews' are converts to Judaism?  That they have no ties whatsoever to the land at all?  They are not descendants of Abraham?  Never came from the area?
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Not much different looking than the current Bosnian Muslim leader.


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## José (Oct 9, 2014)

So very true, Roudy... + rep coming your way.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


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Wow, the crazy asshole forgets that the Palestinian Nazi animal the Mufti of Jerusalem made Hitler kill an additional 500,000 Jews as opposed to letting them escape with their lives.  You'll only find crazy assholes like this moron on the internet, spouting shit like this.  In the real world, they lock people like him in asylums.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

Challenger said:


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Check the sources listed.  As Jewish population increased, the Muslim invasion increased.  The British encouraged it, and have documented it.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

To be fair, the Mufti was trying to avoid having 500,000 European Jews settle in Palestine AND expel his people from their lands and homes.  He would have resisted the arrival of 500,000 Hindus or Buddhists or Athiests for the same reason if they were  intent on creating their own state in Palestine by expelling the existing people.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


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This is what the British documented. What you are posting are secondary and tertiary interpretations probably effectively edited by trained Hasbara wikipedia editors.  Is the source document just too factual and contrary to the brainwashing you have received?

So, between 1922 and 1937 increase by migration was 245,433 for the Jews, 25,168 for the Muslims and 10,414 for the Christians.

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> To be fair, the Mufti was trying to avoid having 500,000 European Jews settle in Palestine AND expel his people from their lands and homes.  He would have resisted the arrival of 500,000 Hindus or Buddhists or Athiests for the same reason if they were  intent on creating their own state in Palestine by expelling the existing people.



How about you being fair.?  The land never belonged to the Arabs.  The Mufti, who is basically the God father of Islamic movements and Muslim Brotherhood, allied himself with Hitler and created a Muslim army in Bosnia that fought side by side with the Nazis.  The US state dept. declared the Mufti a Nazi, which means, the founder of the Palestinian national bowel movement was a fucking Nazi.  The Mufti was an Islamist thug who killed fellow Muslim moderates who preached coexistence, because he saw an opportunity to steal the land and make it "Muslim land", and exporting his barbaric IslamoNazi ideology to the rest of the Middle East, which he did (look up the Baath party roots).  The Mufti's jihadists were behind the genocide and ethnic cleansing of the ancient Jews of Hebron.  The Mufti was also behind the mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing of ancient Jews in Iraq  and other Arab Muslim countries.  The Mufti paid visits to Hitler's death camps and declared his pleasure with what he saw, and wanted to implement Hitler's "final solution" upon the Jews and Christians of the Middle East, that's why he successfully blended Islam with Nazism and Arab nationalism. 

This is the scum you are defending and rooting for.  Your cause is based on evil from it's inception  All mentally ill losers like .Mohomod Latici qualify as foot soldiers.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


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> > To be fair, the Mufti was trying to avoid having 500,000 European Jews settle in Palestine AND expel his people from their lands and homes.  He would have resisted the arrival of 500,000 Hindus or Buddhists or Athiests for the same reason if they were  intent on creating their own state in Palestine by expelling the existing people.
> ...



"How about you being fair.? The land never belonged to the Arabs."

Who do you think it belonged to? According to the 1946 Survey of Palestine submitted to the UN by the Mandatory 90% or more of the land was owned by the Arabs:


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

José_LA said:


> These individuals claiming Palestine as the homeland of their ancestors would be a good joke if it weren't so tragic... if so many people hadn't died because of this fable.


Deputy US Marshal Sam Gerard [looking at the forged ID]: José ... Where are you, José?


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 I wouldn't be quoting the British if I were you, when they admitted to encouraging and documenting the Arab Invasion of Palestine during that time period:

By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective_Jewish_ immigrants. 8

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922–36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.” 9

*The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is . . . due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” *10

The gates of Palestine remained closed for the duration of the war, stranding hundreds of thousands of Jews in Europe, many of whom became victims of Hitler’s“Final Solution.” After the war, the British refused to allow the survivors of the Nazi nightmare to find sanctuary in Palestine. 

The rapid growth of the Arab population was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states—constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel—by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. 15 The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. 16

The Arab population increased the most in cities where large Jewish populations had created new economic opportunities. From 1922–1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent inJerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem. 17

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine’s land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins. 18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab _fellahin,_ whom he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.” Ben-Gurion said “under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to _fellahs_ or worked by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. “Only if a _fellah_ leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.” 19

*In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness for the British government and offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.” British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government’s legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.*


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> To be fair, the Mufti was trying to avoid having 500,000 European Jews settle in Palestine AND expel his people from their lands and homes.  He would have resisted the arrival of 500,000 Hindus or Buddhists or Athiests for the same reason if they were  intent on creating their own state in Palestine by expelling the existing people.


Please show me where you read that was the reason for the Mufti associating with Hitler and Nazis


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


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You are posting propaganda and I am posting fact from an official report.  Do I have to post it again or are you so thick headed that you will believe propaganda (without any link by the way) rather than official reports? Arabs owned about 95% of the land.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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1943 after the Arab invasion had completed?  The land belonged to the OTTOMAN TURKS for 600 years, and then fell under British control.  Let's also not forget that the Ottoman Turks did their lite own version of ethnic cleansing on the Jews, as well as underreported their presence in the land INTENTIONALLY.  Remind us again, are Ottoman Turks, Arabs?  Ha ha ha.


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


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There's a difference between owning land and having sovereignty over that land. The Palestinians did not have the latter.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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So when you quote the British it's not propaganda but when I quote the Peel Commission and other British officials, it's propaganda.  Ha ha ha.  Get a life Mohomod, you're a fulla shit propagandist and liar.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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> > To be fair, the Mufti was trying to avoid having 500,000 European Jews settle in Palestine AND expel his people from their lands and homes.  He would have resisted the arrival of 500,000 Hindus or Buddhists or Athiests for the same reason if they were  intent on creating their own state in Palestine by expelling the existing people.
> ...



Don't hold your breath.  He makes up shit as he goes.  LOL


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

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But Roudy, I thought Monti was "known for posting facts" ? hahahaha


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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He thinks just because the Arabs invaded and squatted they get to own the land.  Islamist modus operandi.  Exactly what ISIS is doing now, and what Hamas intends to do.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

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How can that be when only 25,168 Muslims and 10,414 Christians migrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1937 as opposed to 245,433 Jews migrating to Palestine?  The invasion seems to be Jewish.  






_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

261,602302,294

245,433

56,86138,305

10,414

27,8913,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

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What other reason could he possibly have for not wanting Jews to flood into Palestine?


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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He sure posts a lot of FUCKTS!


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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There were Jews who had been there in their ancestral homeland since ancient times, and then there were Jews who migrated to their holy land to join their brethern, a land that was owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then under British control.  The Arabs had no control or say into the goings on of that land for at least 800 years.  Along with the migration of the Jews, the Arabs migrated under greater numbers.  In other words, a majority of the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians today (as of 1967, an invented name for an invented people) are invaders from neighboring Arab lands. 

And here are some Arabs and "Palestinians" of the time saying the same exact thing:

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.
-Former PLO Terrorist


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> How can that be when only 25,168 Muslims and 10,414 Christians migrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1937 as opposed to 245,433 Jews migrating to Palestine? ...


Very simple! Illegal immigration is an arab forte, of course.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
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> > How can that be when only 25,168 Muslims and 10,414 Christians migrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1937 as opposed to 245,433 Jews migrating to Palestine? ...
> ...



It includes illegal immigration.  The Jewish immigration was almost all illegal.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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An islamic takeover of Palestine with him as the leader, by allying himself with the Nazis.  Palestinians have a way of always choosing the wrong side.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

I see, you have run out of bullshit and are now attempting to deflect.  But, you have made fools of yourselves as usual.

As far as the old no Palestinian trick.  This is from a letter written by the Palestinian Delegation in London to the British in 1922!!!  As usual, source documents, not Wiki.

"(a) In the preamble to the Palestine Order in Council "the declaration of November 2nd, 1917, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish People" is made a basis for this Order;* the People of Palestine* cannot accept this Declaration as a basis for discussion. - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

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Legal immigration including illegal immigration "numbers"?! Now, that's hilarious!


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> I see, you have run out of bullshit and are now attempting to deflect.  But, you have made fools of yourselves as usual.
> 
> As far as the old no Palestinian trick.  This is from a letter written by the Palestinian Delegation in London to the British in 1922!!!  As usual, source documents, not Wiki.
> 
> "(a) In the preamble to the Palestine Order in Council "the declaration of November 2nd, 1917, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish People" is made a basis for this Order;* the People of Palestine* cannot accept this Declaration as a basis for discussion. - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


So you're quoting a paper that the Arabs wrote to the Brits, objecting to the intention of the creation of a Jewish national home. Who gives a shat what they thought, they want ALL LANDS to be Muslim.  It's nothing new.  

But at least you are confirming that A- The Arabs did not own the land and B- the intention of the Brits and the world was to create a Jewish national home in said land. 

While at the same time giving the land east of the Jordan river to the Arab Muslims as "Arab Palestine".  Greedy Arabs took that, called it JORDAN, and now want the rest as well.

And speaking of 1922 this is what the Brits and the world intended:


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


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Oh dear.  I debunked this propaganda already.  But the point I was making was not this one.  The point was that the Christians and Muslims called themselves the Palestinian people, as shown in the letter to the British, back in 1922.  

As far as Trans-Jordan being part of Palestine let's review the Report of 1921 it reports on Trans-Jordania separately, in a separate section, as a separate territory and gives separate population figures, to wit:

"X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.

Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate *is the territory of Trans-Jordania.* It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. *Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people*."

furthermore, why would the Emir be said to have traveled to Palestine if Trans-Jordania was part of Palestine?

"I paid a visit to Amman on April 18th as the guest of the Emir and explained in an address to the sheikhs and notables the arrangement that had been made. *The Emir came to Palestine again in the month of May.* The political and technical officers of the Palestine Administration have made frequent visits to Trans-Jordania and have assisted the local officials with their advice" - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 

So, stop with this silly propaganda, your dog won't hunt. Another Zionist myth debunked.





- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


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## JoeB131 (Oct 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> How about you being fair.?  The land never belonged to the Arabs.  The Mufti, who is basically the God father of Islamic movements and Muslim Brotherhood, allied himself with Hitler and created a Muslim army in Bosnia that fought side by side with the Nazis.  The US state dept. declared the Mufti a Nazi, which means, the founder of the Palestinian national bowel movement was a fucking Nazi.  The Mufti was an Islamist thug who killed fellow Muslim moderates who preached coexistence, because he saw an opportunity to steal the land and make it "Muslim land", and exporting his barbaric IslamoNazi ideology to the rest of the Middle East, which he did (look up the Baath party roots).  The Mufti's jihadists were behind the genocide and ethnic cleansing of the ancient Jews of Hebron.  The Mufti was also behind the mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing of ancient Jews in Iraq  and other Arab Muslim countries.  The Mufti paid visits to Hitler's death camps and declared his pleasure with what he saw, and wanted to implement Hitler's "final solution" upon the Jews and Christians of the Middle East, that's why he successfully blended Islam with Nazism and Arab nationalism.
> 
> This is the scum you are defending and rooting for.  Your cause is based on evil from it's inception  All mentally ill losers like .Mohomod Latici qualify as foot soldiers.



A lot of folks who threw in with the Axis powers weren't Nazis.  They were simply people who wanted what was best for their countries and their people. 

The thing was, the British lied to the Arabs.  They told them, "REvolt against the Ottomans, and we'll give you your own countries."  

Instead, they handed the best parts to the Zionists.  Or they would have, if htey could find enough European Jews dumb enough to go along with the scheme.  Most didn't want any part of Israel before the war.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Who cares what the emir said!  Did you see all the Arab leaders of the time, including the PLO founder said about Palestine being a fake concept?  The point is, the Brits, the ones who controlled the land, and the League of Nations which later became the UN, had allocated israel as JEWISH Palestine, and Jordan as Arab Palestine. The end.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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Again, that is irrelevant. And the Mufti did much more than just "throw his hat in" with the Nazis:  www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com


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## MaryL (Oct 9, 2014)

My understanding is that PALISTINE was created by the British in 1919 or so, before that, Palestine was just parts of Jordan Egypt Lebanon and  god knows what other countries.  And, Jews and Muslims got along just fine in the area for a thousand years or more. Israel may be a fiction, but so is Palestine, so these two groups should be able to co exist just fine I would think. Jews fled extermination, the Arab Muslims want to exterminate Jews...We get the picture.


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## aris2chat (Oct 9, 2014)

MaryL said:


> My understanding is that PALISTINE was created by the British in 1919 or so, before that, Palestine was just parts of Jordan Egypt Lebanon and  god knows what other countries.  And, Jews and Muslims got along just fine in the area for a thousand years or more. Israel may be a fiction, but so is Palestine, so these two groups should be able to co exist just fine I would think. Jews fled extermination, the Arab Muslims want to exterminate Jews...We get the picture.



British idea for a jewish state began almost a century before that.


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

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Roudy you in your stupor of Rabid Zionism have forgotten to tell the folks how Jews and Zionists COLLABORATED with the NAZIS and sent 100,000's to the GAS CHAMBERS...you see Dumb Ass,your task today is to use you fuddled brain to source this material....it should take about 5 minutes..just type in "How the Jews COLLABORATED with the Nazis"

Now to put your and other Nutheads prose to the Garbage Bin of History,once and for all.

Ben Gurion (Israel's first Prime Minister...for those who should but don't know) stated in an article he wrote and published(big difference) "Palestine(his words...for the Drongoes on here to absorb) is not an empty(repeat for the Drongoes)empty country,on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants",... he went on to say "The Palestinian Arabs had "the full right" to an independent economic,cultural and communal life...but not political.

Do I believe what Ben Gurion wrote...Yes I do

Do I believe the Nutheads Garbage that they wear like a badge of honour on this thread...No,Fcuk do I

Palestine's population by 1914 was as follows......657,000 Muslim Arabs...81,000 Christian Arabs,and 59,000 Jews as Ben Gurion stated and by his own admission "The vast majority of Jews were NOT Zionists,but the majority were also not even citizens of the country,since most had recently fled the pogroms of Tsarist Russia"  Thank you Mr Ben Gurion for your honest analysis at the time.....regrettably your "friends" in 2014 have turned out on here to be a pack of Cretinous Lowlifes.

The Zionists destroyed deliberately a peaceful way of life between peoples who lived harmoniously together,economically sound,culturally sound and inter communially sound........This terrible Terrorist Organization then deliberately hi-jacked Judaeism to intertwine with Zionism.....to give it some harmonious credibility..........Judaesim IS NOT ZIONISM,in fact it is the complete opposite.

I found a site below,that interesting shows that you could fly from New York,America to Lydd,Palestine for $607 one way or $1095 return by KLM(Royal Dutch Airways).......You see Nutheads ,...you just have NO CLASS...but you know that already...of course.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story414.html


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

MaryL said:


> My understanding is that PALISTINE was created by the British in 1919 or so, before that, Palestine was just parts of Jordan Egypt Lebanon and  god knows what other countries.  And, Jews and Muslims got along just fine in the area for a thousand years or more. Israel may be a fiction, but so is Palestine, so these two groups should be able to co exist just fine I would think. Jews fled extermination, the Arab Muslims want to exterminate Jews...We get the picture.


You need to read and comprehend more............


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

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So did the Zionists but far worse...........as you know


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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The Zionists were declared Nazis by the US dept of state, created a Nazi army that fought side by side with the Nazis, and convinced Hitler to gas half a million people, like Hajj Hussieni the Nazi Mufti?


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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Palestine remembered?  I'll tell you what you can do with that POS site.  

The only "collaboration" that occurred between Jews and the Nazis was for them to let the Jews escape with their lives by giving up their German citizenship and all their assets. Some "collaboration".  You equate that with who and what the Mufti was?  MORON. 

Judaism is not Zionism?  There's no Judaism without Zionism. Have you opened an Old Testament, you fucking idiot?   The story of exodus and Moses leading the Jews into the promised land of Zion, and King David defeating the enemies of Zion is the opening chapters. 

You Pali Nazi lovers are fucking delusional garbage spouters with no shame.  You listen one of you assholes, you've heard them all.


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

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Roudy sadly my friend you are merely showing yourself up with your inane rhetoric......show some backbone and honesty for a change and stop dismissing Facts.....for once in your life. Viva Israel.....Viva Palestine


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## theliq (Oct 9, 2014)

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Zionist Jews stand Guilty for Crimes against Humanity........Sadly it was Jews they helped EXTERMINATE.


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## Kondor3 (Oct 9, 2014)

theliq said:


> ...Zionist Jews stand Guilty for Crimes against Humanity........Sadly it was Jews they helped EXTERMINATE.


Propaganda drivel.

In what court of law have the Jews of Israel been indicted for Crimes Against Humanity?

Hell, they haven't even been indicted, never mind adjudicated or sentenced.

Pffffffttttt.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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Ya right, "Zionism is not Judaism". Exactly where do you get this garbage from?  Talk about showing some backbone.


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## Roudy (Oct 9, 2014)

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Stand guilty where?  According to which drug induced hallucination?  LOL


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## Hossfly (Oct 9, 2014)

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The anti-Semites (playing at being just anti-Zionists) have all learned of the book The Transfer by Edwin Black, in which he explains how some equipment was going to be given to the Nazis in exchange for letting some Jews free instead of having them killed in a concentration camp.  The book is a big hit on the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and the anti-Semites use this book as proof that the Jews corroborated with the Nazis all the time.  Now Edwin Black wishes these anti-Semites would take notice of another one of his works.

Book Discussion Farhud Roots Arab-Nazi Alliance Video C-SPAN.org


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## theliq (Oct 10, 2014)

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Hoss Hi,as you know I have much respect for you,you are nothing like those two Pathetic Bastards Roudy and Condor.....but even with evident facts presented still keep up this crappy Anti-Semitic shit.......as a pragmatic man,I support the two State solution.....unlike most of the Zionist Wannabee Baboons on here,who are just virilant sic Zionists.......Not Semitic Jews but "Outsider Jews" the only Semitic people are Shepardic Jews and Palestinians....and what appeplexic virilant ANTI-SEMITES they are,..........Of course there is Judaism without Zionism......this is not what Zionist want you to believe......But Judaism has been around over 3000 years+...Zionist are a Terrorist Organization started circa 1870.....
"Jonny come lately's".......but the Mentally Depraved Roudy and Condor and their ilk want you to believe there is NO Judaism without Zionism....what absolute Shit........ask the Ultra's they hate the Zionists so do the Secular Jews in Israel and outside.As they should because their whole Mantra is a pack of lies.


As for me better an Asshole than a Zionist COMPULSIVE LAIR...........Don't get sucked in by their Shit Rhetoric Hoss...You are better,a lot better than that.steve,I will never change my opinion of you because I know you to be a thoroughly decent Guy......yep we don't always agree but we can always face each other man to man.

For you to view..    Jews who helped Hitler and the Nazis


www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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Wow, you truly are a work of art.  "Jews who helped Hitler and the Nazis" provided by Jews For Allah - Jewish Believers of Islam Submission To Elah - Accepting Jesus as the Messiah Without the Christian Trinity - Believing in Only One God

Basically a site with not a smidgen of truth or reality on it.  You realize by quoting this IslamoNazi site dedicated to anti Semetism and basic intolerance of anybody but other Muslims you expose yourself as a bald faced liar and convert to Islam.

And oh, you guys wanna laugh? Here's the homepage of this so called Jews For Allah - Jewish Believers of Islam Submission To Elah - Accepting Jesus as the Messiah Without the Christian Trinity - Believing in Only One God brought to us by this delusional fool, talk about an OBSESSION:

*Ethnically Jewish, Religiously Muslim, Jews For Allah*



*Jewish Rabbi Converts to Islam*

Watch Video »



*Jew For Jesus Converts to Islam*

Watch Video »



*Jewish Woman Converts to Islam*

Watch Video »



*Children's Quran*
"Support our newest project for parents and children"
Watch Video »

Free Islamic School





Islamic Caliph Today







Quran Answers For Bible






[TBODY]
[/TBODY]


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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I gotta ask, what the fuck is liq doing on sites like this?  Ya right, he ain't no Muslim.  LOL


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

theliq said:


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^^^^^^^^^^^
And here's Mark Weber's shiny resume.  TALK ABOUT DEPRAVED, STEVO, YOU BEAT THE CAKE:



*Southern Poverty Law Center*
*Mark Weber*
Holocaust Denial Movement Rocked by Infighting (2009)
National Alliance Leader, William Pierce, Looks to Build Far-Right Alliances (1999)
Date of Birth: 
 1952
Groups: 
Institute for Historical Review
Location: 
 Newport Beach, CA
Ideology: 
Holocaust Denial
Since 1993, Mark Weber, who has probably done more than any other American to popularize denial of the World War II Holocaust of European Jews, has directed theInstitute for Historical Review (IHR), a once prominent denial group that has recently been in decline. He also served as the editor of IHR's now-defunct _Journal of Historical Review _from 1992 to 2000 and remains the organization's leading spokesperson, giving speeches and radio interviews to promote IHR's anti-Semitic propaganda. Weber shocked his denial colleagues in early 2009, when he published an essay suggesting that Holocaust denial had become counterproductive and that the real struggle should be directed against "Jewish-Zionist power."

*In His Own Words*
"Around the world awareness is growing that the ‘Holocaust' campaign is a major weapon in the Jewish-Zionist arsenal, that it is used to justify otherwise unjustifiable Israeli policies, and as a powerful tool for blackmailing enormous sums of money from Americans and Europeans."
— "An Open Letter to Fourteen Arab Intellectuals," 2001

"The most direct and obvious victims of Jewish-Zionist power are, of course, the Palestinians who live under Israel's harsh rule. But as the IHR has made clear for years, in truth we Americans are also victims — through the Jewish-Zionist grip on the media, and the organized Jewish-Zionist corruption of our political system."
— Speech at an Institute for Historical Review meeting in Arlington, Va., 2002

"[W]hat is happening is a worldwide conflict now, a global conflict that involves all of humanity. … [W]hether you are a conservative or a liberal, whether your primary loyalties are to your religion, to your ethnic group, to your country, to your heritage in whatever form, you will come up inevitably against this great Jewish Zionist power. … [W]hat we are involved in, is a global struggle … for the interests of us all and the interests of humanity."
— Speech at a Holocaust denial rally, April 24, 2004 

"[D]espite a discouraging record of achievement, some revisionists insist that their work is vitally important because success in exposing the Holocaust as a hoax will deliver a shattering blow to Israel and Jewish-Zionist power. … In the real world struggle against Jewish-Zionist power, Holocaust revisionism has proved to be as much a hindrance as a help."
— "How Relevant is Holocaust Revisionism?", Jan. 7, 2009

*Background*
Born in Portland, Ore., and equipped with a master's degree in history from Indiana University, Mark Weber first appeared on the radical right in 1978, when he became news editor of _National Vanguard_, a publication of the National Alliance, which later evolved into one of the most important neo-Nazi groups in America. But while he remained connected to the Alliance for years, Weber was by 1979 already writing articles for _The Spotlight_, an anti-Semitic tabloid started by Willis Carto, and other Carto publications. In these articles, Weber referred to the Holocaust's Jewish "mythmakers," attacked the credibility of Anne Frank's diary, claimed the Allies used torture to extract false stories about extermination camps, and suggested that the testimony of victims of the Holocaust was unreliable at best.

"The Holocaust hoax is a religion," Weber wrote in 1989, according to the Anti-Defamation League. "[T]he rise of religions such as this generally coincides with the decline and fall of nations which tolerate them." The same year, he said he didn't believe that it was possible for black people to assimilate into American society.

In the mid-1980s, even though he was working closely with Carto, Weber remained a part of the Alliance and was listed as the treasurer of its Cosmotheist Church, which was an attempt by the basically atheistic group to win tax-exempt status. This is surprising because Carto and Alliance leader William Pierce had been bitter enemies since 1970, when they split as they worked to reconfigure the old Youth for Wallace group as the National Youth Alliance (which Pierce would officially rename the National Alliance four years later). Nevertheless, it was in this same period in the mid-1980s that Weber began taking a leading role at Carto's Institute for Historical Review (IHR). In 1984, Weber began leading the group's annual conferences. (These gatherings typically were highlighted by a "mystery guest," who in 1987 was Maj. Gen. Otto Ernst Remer, the unrepentant Nazi who helped crush a 1944 bomb plot against Hitler.) In 1985, Weber joined the IHR's editorial advisory committee and, in 1992, he took over as editor of IHR's _Journal of Historical Review_, work he did until 2000.

In 1993, with Weber's support, the IHR board ousted Carto as its leader, accusing him of interfering in editorial decisions. The next May, Carto and his wife tried to retake IHR by occupying its California offices, a situation that led to fistfights and, ultimately, Carto being forcibly removed from the building. At around the same time, another dispute between IHR and Carto broke out, with IHR leaders accusing Carto of diverting some $10 million that was allegedly left to IHR's parent company, the Legion for the Survival of Freedom.

During the decade of complex litigation that followed, Carto's _Spotlight_ characterized Weber as a "rat," a "cockroach" and a "devil," but in the end Weber's side basically won. _The Spotlight_ was shut down as a result of the litigation, although it was rapidly replaced with the look-alike _American Free Press_. Carto also created _The Barnes Review_, a Holocaust denial journal that now competes directly with IHR.

While Weber and IHR won their lawsuits, the fight with Carto proved to be a great distraction for the organization. It failed to maintain regular publication of its bimonthly _Journal of Historical Review_ (no issues were published between April 1996 and May 1997) and it was unable to hold any conferences between 1994 and 2000. IHR did manage to put on a major conference in 2000, with David Irving, Ernst Zündel, and other notable Holocaust deniers in attendance, but a planned conference on "Revisionism and Zionism" in Beirut, Lebanon, in 2001, was cancelled after authorities banned it. The Lebanese decision followed international criticism of the planned conference.

Since then, Weber's IHR has continued to decline. By 2003, it stopped publishing the _Journal of Historical Review_ and limited its conferences to mostly small, one-day affairs with speeches by Weber or other IHR staffers. In 2004, Weber did plan on attending a two-day Holocaust denial conference in Sacramento, Calif., but at the last minute, the venue refused to host the event, forcing Weber to join with representatives of the neo-Nazi National Alliance in a makeshift gathering at another location. In his keynote address, Weber went on an anti-Semitic rant, warning that all of humanity is involved in "a global struggle" against "Jewish-Zionist power."

More recently, Weber has sought publicity on James Edwards' extremist radio talk show, "The Political Cesspool," whose other guests have included Gordon Baum, head of the white supremacistCouncil of Conservative Citizens and former Klan leader and neo-Nazi David Duke. IHR also runs ads on the Cesspool.

In January 2009, Weber threw the world of Holocaust denial into turmoil with the publication of an essay asking "How Relevant Is Holocaust Revisionism?" Weber's conclusion, shocking to his colleagues on the radical right, was not very — that those on the radical right would do better to struggle against the real enemy, "Jewish-Zionist power," than on a historical debate about the Holocaust that they were largely losing. The essay set off acrimonious attacks on Weber by many of his former friends and colleagues, but hardly reflected a move by Weber to the political center. Within months of publishing the essay, he was recirculating ancient anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, complaining about those "who control political and cultural life, including the education system and the mass media." From the looks of his audience, Weber had replaced his old suit-and-tie denialist friends with hard-core anti-Semites, including open neo-Nazis and heavily tattooed racist skinheads. What this means for Holocaust denial remains an open question.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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Mark Weber:
The Professional Denier
More than any other propagandist, Mark Weber, 45, embodies the Holocaust-denial movement. An articulate, media-savvy spokesperson with a master's degree in History from Indiana University, Weber got his start in the radical right in 1978, when he took the position of news editor for_ National Vanguard_, a publication of the neo-Nazi National Alliance. In 1979, Weber also began to contribute regularly to _The Spotlight_, a weekly


Weber has warned against America's becoming "a sort of Mexicanized, Puerto Ricanized country. . . . I don't believe it's possible for Black Americans to be assimilated into white society."
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]tabloid produced by Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby organization. His involvement with the IHR also intensified steadily over the years; initially working as a contributor to the now-defunct_ IHR Newsletter_, Weber began serving as emcee for the group's annual conventions in 1984. In 1985 he became a member of IHR's Editorial Advisory Committee and in 1992 he became editor of the _Journal of Historical Review_. Following IHR's break with Carto and the subsequent departure of most professional staff members in 1993, Weber became director of the organization with one professional staff person serving under him. 

Weber's more openly extremist commitment to white supremacy has not abated during his pyrrhic ascendancy through the IHR ranks. Throughout the 1980s, he maintained his contact with the National Alliance, serving, according to official documents, as treasurer of that organization's "Cosmotheist Church."

Similarly, in 1987, graduating seniors at four private high schools in Atlanta received copies of a 584-page racist and anti-Semitic book, _The Dispossessed Majority_, with a letter signed by Weber which stated, "... You and your classmates may expect to face grave political, economic and social problems. There will be outright discrimination against you as you compete for admission to the better colleges. Less-qualified nonwhites with lower academic standing will be pushed ahead of you by means of racial quotas and four-year scholarships."

In 1989, several ROTC cadets at Auburn University received an identical mailing from Weber. In the same year, Weber was interviewed by _The Sower_, a student newspaper at the University of Nebraska. In the interview, Weber stated, " l'm concerned about the future of (the white) race and I'm concerned about the future of our country." He also warned against America's becoming "a sort of Mexicanized, Puerto Ricanized country.... I don't believe it's possible for Black Americans to be assimilated into white society."

Nonetheless, it is as a Holocaust-denier that Weber has found his niche on the radical right, and it is through the IHR that he has found the platform to pursue his increasingly solitary, yet persistently hateful propaganda mission.


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## theliq (Oct 10, 2014)

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Well I certainly are not a denier of the Holocaust Roudy.....in fact very much the reverse as is Well Noted on this Forum....but the facts remain that Jews did collaborate with the Nazis......mind you the West never really helped the Jews during the Nazi period although they knew full well what was happening.....you once said to me to "Hang my Head in Shame".....but I have nothing to hang my head for any reason because I believe in a Free Palestine and Israel....

Why don't you and your possee Ever complain about the Germans of whom at the time were complicit with the Nazis....Why don't you complain about the other Western Countries that assisted the Nazis ??????? because plenty did..........Why always the Sufferers like the Palestinians......You posted about the Boycott...Did I disagree with you....NO, I supported You......Look the Jews worldwide are on the Nose,with Anti-Semitic threats and violence on the rise.....Why....well the awful treatment of the Palestinians has not helped your cause....there has been no fairness although you will differ....But back to this Rampant Anti-Seminism world wide........Jewish friends are becoming very nervous because the type of people creating this problem are nasty hardliners.....friends in Europe and the UK feel so uncomfortable that they feel unsafe...the level of threat has become alarming to them,Australia as an Island is not a problem,the Muslims here commune well with Jews and Christians and visa-versa......We have a few ISIS wannabees but the threat is so small....all ISIS want and do is Murder anyone in their way.......but minorities and other Muslims are their main target.......this does not affect Israel,well at ISIS current evolution.

Really we can keep harping to the past....but it is todays situation that really needs our attention and motivation....other wise we just keep cat-calling each other and going round and round in ever decreasing circles......Yep I like to stir you up,but in the end it is mentally wasteful......there really are more important things to resolve......I have as you know desired a peaceful solution for the cousins,for that essensially is what they are.....for Palestine and Israel.......I understand your point of view,of course I do.....But reality is often so different.....The Palestinians are not Jews real enemy as History proves......there are darker elements afoot that harbour Real Hatred for Jews.......and these should be eliminated.and it is this danger we should really be discussing Regards.steven...ps Thanks for setting me straight about Webber....I was wrong to post that,st


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## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

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Not really if you look as that sudden upsurge is less than 30%, about the same as that of the muslims.  In 1905 wasn't there an Ottoman census that dealt only with Ottoman citizens as shown in the table, so the Jews, Muslims and Christians who were not Ottoman citizens were not counted. Did you miss the near 50% rise in muslim population for the same year ? Then the next result once again included all Jews, muslims and Christians in the figures


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## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

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What could be more truthfull than a Palestinian anti semitic Jew hater. Don't you like the fact that every true record shows the Jews to be the majority in Palestine and the arab muslims being a minority


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## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

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 No they tried to save as many Jews as they could, it was the muslims under the mufti that collaborated with the Nazi's to exterminate the Jews. And the mufti started doing so in the 1920's with the riots and massacres.


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## Phoenall (Oct 10, 2014)

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 The Palestinians have brought the treatment on themselves by being violent, terrorist child murderers who plant bombs in schools and youth disco's. When that was thwarted they made complaints to the UN about having their right to mass murder being taken away from them. Now they fire rockets at child facilities in Israel and have been found to hqave dug tunnels under Israel towards child facilities and packed them with high explosives. Those acts should not go unpunished and the people behind them should be arrested and charged in the ICJ. Not just the hamas leaders but the "civilians" that protect the terrorists from harm. We can start with team Palestine on this board and have them arrested and tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity because of their many posts inciting violence against the Jews


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## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2014)

Still waiting for one of you jokers to tell me why any of htis is my problem.... 

Thanks.


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## Hossfly (Oct 10, 2014)

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Steve, if you want to portray yourself as neutral and an advocate of a two state solution, then please don't post links from sick Jew-haters and Holocaust deniers. Plus, the fact that you slam Zionism and exclude Palestinian terror and crimes gives me doubts about your sincerity. Another  item is the Jews who fought for Hitler. That is a known fact but if you watch the American Heroes Channel, formerly The Military Channel, a series on Hitler and the Nazis are shown periodically. One episode is "Jews Who Fought For Hitler." Most people will understand why they did and not make it a spectacular discovery. If you don't get the channel I can post the episode. Carry on.


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## Hossfly (Oct 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Still waiting for one of you jokers to tell me why any of htis is my problem....
> 
> Thanks.


Are you some sort of VIP?


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

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The Palestinians, Christians and Muslims, have only resisted the settlement and subsequent theft of land and their removal on the part of Europeans.  They have done no less or no more than the IRA has done to establish the Republic of Ireland.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians, Christians and Muslims, have only resisted the settlement and subsequent theft of land and their removal on the part of Europeans.  They have done no less or no more than the IRA has done to establish the Republic of Ireland.


The Grand-Sheikh of Palestine delivered land transfer papers to Ben Gurion personally!


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## Challenger (Oct 10, 2014)

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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

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Oh, bog off.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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Notice Mohomod Latici always refers to "Palestinians" as Muslims and Christians. As if the Jews had nothing to do with the land, and were non existent at the time. While the truth is that the label "Palestinian" ONLY referred to Jews of the region before 1948.  If you walked up to an Arab before that and called him a Palestinian he'd punch you in the face for insulting him by calling him a Jew.  These propagandists are so full of it you truly don't know where to start.


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

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You surely are the king of the propagandists:  Do you really think that ridiculous assertions like  "While the truth is that the label "Palestinian" ONLY referred to Jews of the region before 1948"  are believed by even your Jewish brethren?  

I understand that the facts can only confirm that there were hardly any Jews in Palestine before 1850 and Europeans of the Jewish faith settled in great numbers in the area and expelled the people that were living there. And, I know this fact disturbs you, but that is the fact. But, making outrageous claims doesn't change the facts available from Government Archives, which I have linked very often.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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Oh so you finally sobered up. Ok....

What do you mean by "collaborate"?  You really can't expect a sane person to accept the blood libel you promoted that "Jews wanted the Nazis to kill more Jews", now can you?  If anything the Zionists would want MORE Jews, not less to populate their Holyland.  The only so called "collaboration" neo Nazis keep harping about is when the Jews have up their German citizenship and all their belongings in exchange for leaving to Israel with their lives.  Only a scumbag would demonize Jews for that, and call it collaborate.

Ever heard of the saying those who forget about the past are destined to repeat it.  The Muslim world in today general are behaving like a mafia, bunch of hypocrites and thugs with no control.  The last time we saw a supremacist movement like this it was Nazi Germany.  And many like you want to keep ignoring it.


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

It seems to me that you are projecting.  The supremacist movement I see is the Zionist one.  The Muslims are fighting mostly among themselves.  The Zionists are the latter day Nazis.  They are holding millions of non-Jews in virtual concentration camps killing thousands of them every year or so.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> It seems to me that you are projecting.  The supremacist movement I see is the Zionist one.  The Muslims are fighting mostly among themselves.  The Zionists are the latter day Nazis.  They are holding millions of non-Jews in virtual concentration camps killing thousands of them every year or so.



The supremacist movement is the Zionist one, that is home to 2 billion Muslim and Christian Arabs living with the same rights as the rest of the Israelis?

It's not Islamists like Hamas, ISIS, Al Queda, Islamic Jihad, Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Al Shabab, Taliban, etc. who want to establish an ISLAMIC KALIFATE under SHARIAH LAW, where non-Muslims get to either SUBMIT TO ISLAM OR DIE?  And in the process committing massacres, mass bombings, killing hundreds of thousands.  Yup, dem Zionist Jooos are da problem in the world today.

Gee, coulda fooled me, PROPOGANDACITI!  Ha ha ha.


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

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> ...



The Jews are the problem in Palestine. This forum is about Palestine and Israel.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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The Jews, not Arabs and Muslims are the problem.  Yup.  It's never the Muslims or Palestinians fault, is it?  

  Palestinians haven't been ruled by one Islamic Jihadi terrorist thief or another  like Hamas or Arafat, since the invention of a Palestinian people.


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## MaryL (Oct 10, 2014)

Palestine is a fiction, just like Israel. Muslims and jews coexisted  for a millennium in this area....The British mandate of Palestine that divided Lebanon from Ottoman Syria was created in 1922, and nobody was the wiser. Really, who in the hell is going to care if Jews flee to that almost genetic  homeland and  WHO is going to object if they flee extermination? Americans wouldn't even  let these people in, I don't blame the jews for  going back to square one and creating a homeland from their past as a form of self protection....what else could they do?  Palestinians? They could (hint hint) accept their brothers and live in harmony, not be hateful reactionaries. Muslims are like that. suicide bombers, crash planes into buildings. But that is a different  story...is it? Muslims are always poor little victims, all the time always forever.


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

I think it is the Jews who play the victims profiting from the millions that were killed by the Germans.  But, I agree, the Jews of Palestine should agree to a secular democratic state where Palestinians of all religions have equal rights.  If this were done, Hamas would disappear.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> I think it is the Jews who play the victims profiting from the millions that were killed by the Germans.  But, I agree, the Jews of Palestine should agree to a secular democratic state where Palestinians of all religions have equal rights.  If this were done, Hamas would disappear.



Wrong again, Mohomod.  Israel is a democracy.  People of all religions and races enjoy equal rights in Israel.  Not one Muslim shithole can say that about itself.  You think it has anything to do with the religion?


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

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> ...



Israel is not a democracy, far from it.  It controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews and gives the vote to only a small percentage of non-Jews it rules over.  Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey and even Lebanon are more democratic than Israel.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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You get a PHD in bullshit.  Israel is a democracy where all people are treated equally.  Your beloved Palestinian Muslim Arabs enjoy such a high standard of living in Israel that they aren't even willing to leave Israel to go live anywhere else. Eat that.

  Lebanon, a country taken over by Hezbollah terrorist thugs that want to Islamicize it, is DEMOCRATIC? And didn't the Arab spring start in Tunisia because people were sick and tired of the corruption and oppression? Ha ha ha.  Have you thought of taking your comedy show on the road?


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

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None of the countries you mention are holding millions of people in virtual Gulags as the Israelis are.


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## Roudy (Oct 10, 2014)

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Virtual gulag, open concentration camp, blah blah blah...got any more stupid made up labels that are based on lies?  You are so predictable.  There, I threw a stick, go fetch it.  LOL


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

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Just a fact that you can't handle.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 10, 2014)

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Well, if you are going to keep insisting that we need to keep paying to subsidize the Zionists playing "God Loves me the Very bestest", over there, with thousands of boys coming home in body bags to take out whoever is scaring them this week, I think you guys really need to define why it's my problem before asking me to pay for it.


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## Hossfly (Oct 10, 2014)

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Dayam! What happened, when did it happen and who died?


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## theliq (Oct 11, 2014)

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I'm RIGHT Roudy


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## toastman (Oct 11, 2014)

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You have this habit of referring to bullshit as facts


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## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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> Dayam! What happened, when did it happen and who died?



Rachel Corey. Rachel Corey died when she asked why it was necessary to demolish the home of an innocent pharmacist. 

That's when it became okay for me to ask why these religious fuckers get to dictate policy.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

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Palistanians are all "innocent pharmasists", of course


JoeB131 said:


> That's when it became okay for me to ask why these religious fuckers get to dictate policy.


Obscure and vague drivel.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> None of the countries you mention are holding millions of people in virtual Gulags as the Israelis are.


Then palistanians must run. Run!


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> I think it is the Jews who play the victims profiting from the millions that were killed by the Germans.  But, I agree, the Jews of Palestine should agree to a secular democratic state where Palestinians of all religions have equal rights.  If this were done, Hamas would disappear.


With palistanian rights more equal, than those of others, of course.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Israel is not a democracy, far from it.  It controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews and gives the vote to only a small percentage of non-Jews it rules over.  Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey and even Lebanon are more democratic than Israel.


Palistanians must definitely run to those democracies to escape their virtual gulags!


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## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

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I present only facts, you deny facts.


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## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

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Equal rights for all.


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## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

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Probably it is better that the Jews go back to Europe.  There are fewer of them.


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## Roudy (Oct 11, 2014)

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Majority of board posters would disagree with that, habibi.


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## toastman (Oct 11, 2014)

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Sure you do Monti 

Constantly saying o doesn't make it true.


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## Roudy (Oct 11, 2014)

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Majority of Jews in Israel are either Sephardic or descendants of Jews who fled Muslim shitholes.  Where do you suggest they go?  According to your theory, since they aren't "European" they are back in the homeland of their ancestors which Muslims invaders squatted.

You see what a fulla shit propagandist you are?


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## Roudy (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> I think it is the Jews who play the victims profiting from the millions that were killed by the Germans.  But, I agree, the Jews of Palestine should agree to a secular democratic state where Palestinians of all religions have equal rights.  If this were done, Hamas would disappear.


Yup. Them greedy Jooooos, always profiting, even from the Holocaust!  Why don't they just lie down and let the Muslim savages stampede all over them?  It's all about the Jooooooooooos ain't it?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

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Nah, there's palistan for palistanians in Australia!


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

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Nah, islamic supremacism forbids that, of course.


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## Hossfly (Oct 11, 2014)

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Rachel Corrie died because she put herself in front of a bulldozer.  Do you have any concern about the armed terrorist who hid in the offices of the group which Rachel Corrie belonged?  This armed terrorist went into Mike's Place in Tel Aviv, blowing himself up, and in the process managed to kill people and injure others.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 11, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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> Rachel Corrie died because she put herself in front of a bulldozer.  Do you have any concern about the armed terrorist who hid in the offices of the group which Rachel Corrie belonged?  This armed terrorist went into Mike's Place in Tel Aviv, blowing himself up, and in the process managed to kill people and injure others.



Ooooh, Terrorists... 

Frankly, if a bunch of space Aliens occupied America tomorrow, we'd have a lot of "Terrorists', too.


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## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

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He made an excellent point.  I know if a bunch of Jews came to Martinsburg and threw my parents and grand parents out in 1948, they would have certainly fought back to get their land back.  Hell, they would have used quarry and mine dynamite and would have blown the shit out of them.  Yes, asshole I am from West Virginia.


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## toastman (Oct 11, 2014)

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Terrorists don't exist, right Joe ?? They are a made up phenomenon, right?
Or maybe a figment of our imagination?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


> Terrorists don't exist, right Joe ?? They are a made up phenomenon, right?
> Or maybe a figment of our imagination?



I'll make it really easy for you. 

There was this guy in Afghanistan, who went around attacking Russians who had invaded the country. And Ronald Reagan went about praising him and his comrades as "Freedom Fighters".  

Then after the Russians went home, he and his comrades started attacking Americans.  Then we started calling him a "Terrorist". 

His name was Usama bin Laden!  You might have heard of him. 

Same guy. Same tactics. Different targets.  

Hamas might be "Terrorists" to the Zionists who stole the land of the Palestinians, but they are "Freedom Fighters" to those Palestinians.


----------



## Lipush (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> 1896 film showing the people in Palestine and Jerusalem in particular.  Notice how Christians and Muslims are the clear majority walking the streets of Jerusalem.  Will a film convince the Israel Firsters?



Would it have been nice if the three communities could live in one state, happy? Why did the Arabs need to force upon us all the war in 1948, just to destroy the Jews?

That's just the saddest thing...


----------



## Lipush (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Terrorists don't exist, right Joe ?? They are a made up phenomenon, right?
> ...



Freedom fighters. I bet all those poor innocent guys in Gaza Hamas beheaded for no apparent reason, would agree with you


----------



## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Terrorists don't exist, right Joe ?? They are a made up phenomenon, right?
> ...



What land was stolen?


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

*Folks - please remember to include some content along with flames.  Banter back and forth is fine, off topic flaming not so much.*


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Lipush said:


> [
> 
> Freedom fighters. I bet all those poor innocent guys in Gaza Hamas beheaded for no apparent reason, would agree with you



Hamas is beheading people?  I thought that was ISIL.  Is this like that Ice Bucket Challenge thing where all the cool kids are doing it? Am I openly mocking your ass?

Actually, I did a quick google search, and no, Hamas is not beheading people like a fad now.  

I did find this though...

Man who beheaded maid wanted to fight Hamas - The Local

Federico Leonelli, 35, was shot outside a gated house in Rome on Sunday morning, after allegedly beheading 38-year-old Oksana Martseniuk.

Homeowner Giovanni Ciallella has now said that his guest Leonelli was obsessed with “the military world” and wanted to fight in Gaza alongside the Israeli army.

“He told me that he had met a rabbi in Rome and was ready to join the Israeli army against Hamas and terrorists armed with missiles,” Ciallella told La Repubblica.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...





toastman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



You know, the land that as called "Palestine" before 1948.


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Right before 1948 it was called Mandatory Palestine. I'm not denying that Palestinian lived there, but it was not a sovereign state and the Palestinian Arabs did not have any sovereignty over the land. 
The Jews completed the steps prepatory to self determination and declared independence legally on the land allotted to them in resolution 181. 
THE EXACT SAME WAY the Palestinian did so in 1988


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


> [
> Right before 1948 it was called Mandatory Palestine. I'm not denying that Palestinian lived there, but it was not a sovereign state and the Palestinian Arabs did not have any sovereignty over the land.
> The Jews completed the steps prepatory to self determination and declared independence legally on the land allotted to them in resolution 181.
> THE EXACT SAME WAY the Palestinian did so in 1988



What makes a state "sovereign" is that other states recognize it.  Since most of the states in the region do not recognize the Zionist Entity, haven't you already delegitamized it by your own standard?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Hamas might be "Terrorists" to the Zionists who stole the land of the Palestinians, but they are "Freedom Fighters" to those Palestinians.




A person would have to be remarkably stupid to think the only thing that distinguishes freedom fighting from terrorism is point of view.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Hamas might be "Terrorists" to the Zionists who stole the land of the Palestinians, but they are "Freedom Fighters" to those Palestinians.
> ...



No, a person would really have to be stupid to think that guys who were fighting the Russians because they wanted to teach girls how to read were really all that concerned about "Freedom".  

To the Palestinians, 'Freedom" would be defined as getting the Zionists to go back to Europe where they came from and reclaiming their land.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Hamas might be "Terrorists" to the Zionists who stole the land of the Palestinians, but they are "Freedom Fighters" to those Palestinians.
> ...



What do you consider the difference between a "freedom fighter" and a "terrorists" and what groups do think fit into each category?

I don't think the line is always so clear.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


In Israel's case, terrorist is a propaganda campaign.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Terrorist has a distinct definition.

It is anyone we do not like.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> What do you consider the difference between a "freedom fighter" and a "terrorists" and what groups do think fit into each category?
> 
> I don't think the line is always so clear.




The line is only malleable for propagandists who wish to pursue a dishonest agenda, or for those such as yourself who are incapable of moral reasoning 

A freedom fighter is motivated by just that -- the desire for freedom. They engage in guerilla actions that target those who are actually preventing them from expressing their freedom by selecting military and strategic targets. 

 Palestinian terrorists are motivated by their  desire to kill Jews above all else, as their entire culture rewards those who succeed in killing the most. They target innocent people just going about their business, and do so BECAUSE they are innocent civilians.

Any person with a working brain and a scrap of human decency should be able to see the difference.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Ah! Illegal aliens! They'd get a pardon, of course.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> [
> 
> The line is only malleable for propagandists who wish to pursue a dishonest agenda, or for those such as yourself who are incapable of moral reasoning
> 
> A freedom fighter is motivated by just that -- the desire for freedom. They engage in guerilla actions that target those who are actually preventing them from expressing their freedom by selecting military and strategic targets.



But you don't think the Palestinian defines freedom as not being oppressed by the Zionists? 



Dogmaphobe said:


> Palestinian terrorists are motivated by their  desire to kill Jews above all else, as their entire culture rewards those who succeed in killing the most. They target innocent people just going about their business, and do so BECAUSE they are innocent civilians.
> 
> Any person with a working brain and a scrap of human decency should be able to see the difference.



Tell me, how many Palestinians died in the last round of fighting compared to how many Jews?  If you are going to define "terrorism" by how many "innocents" are being killed, the Zionists are going to have a real problem.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> You know, the land that as called "Palestine" before 1948.


Maybe our honorable joeb131 knows who was that shakh, sheikh, emir, sultan, pasha, president, prime-minister of that "palestine"?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Tell me, how many Palestinians died in the last round of fighting compared to how many Jews?  If you are going to define "terrorism" by how many "innocents" are being killed, the Zionists are going to have a real problem.


Funny! What was the american/iraqi ratio? Must've been disproportionate. A real problem, indeed.


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > What do you consider the difference between a "freedom fighter" and a "terrorists" and what groups do think fit into each category?
> ...



Just can't make an argument without insults can you?  Ok, I can play along.



> A freedom fighter is motivated by just that -- the desire for freedom. They engage in guerilla actions that target those who are actually preventing them from expressing their freedom by selecting military and strategic targets.



Ok.  That's a reasonable distinction.



> Palestinian terrorists are motivated by their  desire to kill Jews above all else, as their entire culture rewards those who succeed in killing the most. They target innocent people just going about their business, and do so BECAUSE they are innocent civilians.



You claim to know the motivation of all the Palestinians?  That's quite an achievement.  But it's also a distraction from the questions asked.

You defined "freedom fighters":  [those who] _engage in guerilla actions that target those who are actually preventing them from expressing their freedom by selecting military and strategic targets._

But you gave yourself a nice little loophole didn't you?  "strategic targets" which could justify civilian targets and the killing of civilians with "strategic" being in the mind of the bomber.

You define terrorists as: [those who] _target innocent people just going about their business, and do so BECAUSE they are innocent civilians. _I would add to that definition: _with the intent of creating terror to force their agenda._

I agree with the definitions but submit it's not always so clear as many "freedom fighters" end up employing terrorist tactics to accomplish their goals.  I can't think of any group that has not ended up employing some form of terrorism.

What groups do you consider examples of "freedom fighters"?  
What groups do you consider examples of "terrorists"?

I will state - and I have done so *many times on this board* - that I categorically oppose the deliberate targeting of civilians.



> Any person with a working brain and a scrap of human decency should be able to see the difference.



Yes.  I'm holding high hopes for you


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > You know, the land that as called "Palestine" before 1948.
> ...



Why is that relevent in any way?  

the point is, there was a nationality of Palestinians, as opposed to "Israelis", who were a cobble of refugees attracted from all over the world with the promise of "Free Stuff">


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Tell me, how many Palestinians died in the last round of fighting compared to how many Jews?  If you are going to define "terrorism" by how many "innocents" are being killed, the Zionists are going to have a real problem.
> ...



Yeah, it was, especially considering the Iraqis hadn't actually done anything wrong other than not overthrowing Saddam.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


While arabs did, in 1948, of course.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Well, there have never been a nationality of "palestinians", of course. But major arab settlers and squatters from the hood did swoop in on jewish development opportunities and "free stuff", indeed.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Guy, did anyone teach you "capitalization" in Home Skule?  

Anyway, there were Palestinians before 1948.  There were not Israelis before 1948.  There were Polish Jews and German Jews and Hungarian Jews who all joined the British Jews who were already there.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You defined "freedom fighters":  [those who] _engage in guerilla actions that target those who are actually preventing them from expressing their freedom by selecting military and strategic targets._
> 
> But you gave yourself a nice little loophole didn't you?  "strategic targets" which could justify civilian targets and the killing of civilians with "strategic" being in the mind of the bomber.
> 
> ...



You and your typical Arab double talk.

You claim to oppose terrorism immediately after offering your intentional sophistry by way of attempting to create the impression that innocent people can be considered strategic as long as your murderous friends think they are.  Again, you fall back on the point of view ruse to justify terrorism.  

 .


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## Lipush (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Hamas beheaded people who resisted it without any trial.

Don't you find that kind of hypocritical, when it constantly blames Israel for cutting TV channels, but then goes and kills of palestinian randomly?


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## Lipush (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



There were no "Palestinians" before 48, there were the Jews and Arabs of the place called "Palestine" by foreign occupiers.

If you go with the "Palestine existed while Israel didn't" then ALL the residents should have been 'Palestinians'. including the Jews of that time.

Following THAT logic, I am a Palestinian.

But no, thankfully, Im not. We're just Israelis.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> [
> 
> You and your typical Arab double talk.
> 
> ...



So when we bombed Dresden, Hiroshima, Hanoi, Baghdad and killed a lot of innocent people, was that okay because they were "strategic"?   

THere was this great film about the Algerian uprising against France, and they had an Algerian leader, and they asked him why they delivered bombs in women's baskets, and he replied, "You deliver bombs in planes. I'll gladly trade you our baskets for your planes."


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Lipush said:


> [
> 
> Hamas beheaded people who resisted it without any trial.
> 
> Don't you find that kind of hypocritical, when it constantly blames Israel for cutting TV channels, but then goes and kills of palestinian randomly?



I tried to find a link to what you are babbling about and couldn't. 

The last forray into Gaza, the Zionists killed 2191 Palestinians. 76% of them were civilians.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Lipush said:


> There were no "Palestinians" before 48, there were the Jews and Arabs of the place called "Palestine" by foreign occupiers.
> 
> If you go with the "Palestine existed while Israel didn't" then ALL the residents should have been 'Palestinians'. including the Jews of that time.
> 
> ...



And what are you "Israelis" going to do when Palestinians are in the majority.  Because they are having more babies than you are and a lot of your folks are going back to Europe.


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## Lipush (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > There were no "Palestinians" before 48, there were the Jews and Arabs of the place called "Palestine" by foreign occupiers.
> ...



That's where you're wrong, you see.

Growing education and differences between the Arabs and Jews are actually in favor of the Jews. Most Arabs surrounding us now have about 3-4 kids, when in past days they had around 7.

While Jewish birth rates were around 2-3 children in the past, Israeli birth rates among the Jews is totally on the rise.

If anything, Jews are going to be in majority in the future to come, so, sorry to burst your bubble.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > You defined "freedom fighters":  [those who] _engage in guerilla actions that target those who are actually preventing them from expressing their freedom by selecting military and strategic targets._
> ...



I have consistently opposed the murder of civilians.
I have never supported terrorism as a tactic.
Innocent people can never be considered a target - that is *your* loophole, not mine.

Unless you can find a link showing I have in any way supported or justified terrorism as a tactic, let's move beyond this attempted deflection of yours.

You did not answer the question.


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## Lipush (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Actually, that's also incorrect. among 2100 dead Palestinians, the civilians where not even 800. 

How is that 76%, I don't know, but your sources are either not accurate, or lying.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Lipush said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Wow, you actaully believe Bibi's propaganda.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Interesting point.

I can see that bombing Dresden and Hiroshima would be considered "stratigic targets" in a war that imo was justifiable.  The intent was not to kill civilians, but win the war and those were major centers of industry etc important to the war effort or important in claiming a decisive victory.

That's also an interesting point on Algiers - I hadn't thought of it in that way.


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


And the moment Israel declared independence, countries started recognizing her. One year later, Israel became a member of the U.N
Oh, and Israel is recognized by Egypt and Jordan as well as the PA. But since when does ISrael need to be recognized by Muslim governments to be legit? If Israel was another Arab Muslim state, do you think


P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You can say that all you want, but it still won't make it true. 

Are all those countries who named Hamas a terrorist organization also part of this propaganda campaign??


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > There were no "Palestinians" before 48, there were the Jews and Arabs of the place called "Palestine" by foreign occupiers.
> ...



You can't ethnically cleanse people like that.  Everyone seems to be fixated on ethnicly cleansing their opponents.  Jews have lived there for generations now.  Israel is here to stay and demographics won't substantially change that.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> I have consistently opposed the murder of civilians.
> I have never supported terrorism as a tactic.
> Innocent people can never be considered a target - that is *your* loophole, not mine.
> 
> .



and here I thought you had already plumbed the depths of your Arab dishonesty.  I did not list any loopholes. That was you who tried doing so.  

I simply didn't buy it because of the level of deceitfulness.


----------



## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Wow, you actually believe in Palestinian propaganda. Did you know that Hamas choose which media can and cannot come into Gaza? Also, the Palestinian death toll comes from Palestinian sources.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > I have consistently opposed the murder of civilians.
> ...



You gave yourself a loophole with "strategic".  I just wonder how you are going to use it.

So answer the question?  What groups do you consider "freedom fighters" and which ones "terrorists"


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> [
> 
> You can't ethnically cleanse people like that.  Everyone seems to be fixated on ethnicly cleansing their opponents.  Jews have lived there for generations now.  Israel is here to stay and demographics won't substantially change that.



Sadly, we ethnically cleanse people all the time. 

At some point, Arabs will be in the majority.  Which means one of three things will happen. 

1) THey will split Israel and Palestine into two states that will constantly be squabbling over territory. 

2) Israel will have to either ethnically cleanse the Palestinians, or reduce them to a Apartheid State like the South Africans tried (and failed) to do with Homelands. 

3) The Palestinians will vote Israel out of existence, and a lot of the Europeans will go back to Europe where they belong.  

And it never should have gotten this far.  

You see, the amazing thing about South Africa was that the blacks didn't seek revenge once they had the upper hand.  they even let white folks  keep most of their stuff. 

I just can't see the Palestinians being so accommedating.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Actually, that's also incorrect. among 2100 dead Palestinians, the civilians where not even 800.
> 
> .



 and, of course, it was not the civilians (so many of whom share the same agenda) who were the targets. Hamas was.

ANY number coming from Pallywood land is suspect to begin with since the propaganda war is always front and center.


----------



## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > There were no "Palestinians" before 48, there were the Jews and Arabs of the place called "Palestine" by foreign occupiers.
> ...



Jews make up 75% of Israel. A Palestinian majority in Israel proper is a looooooong time away, IF it ever occurs. And Israelis aren't going back to Europe, as much as you would like them too. 
BTW, should Japanese living in America go back to Japan ?
Should Filipino's living in Canada go back to the Philippines ?
Should Germans living in Guatemala go back to Germany ?


----------



## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Where they belong lol. Israelis belong wherever they want to go to.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> [
> 
> 
> I can see that bombing Dresden and Hiroshima would be considered "stratigic targets" in a war that imo was justifiable.  The intent was not to kill civilians, but win the war and those were major centers of industry etc important to the war effort or important in claiming a decisive victory.
> ...



I would go so far to argue that Dresden and HIroshima were in fact acts of terrorism.  The intent was to intimidate enemies already on the verge of surrender to give up.  

Especially Hiroshima, which was spared conventional bombing  just so we could see what kind of damage these new nuclear weapons could do.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You gave yourself a loophole with "strategic".  I just wonder how you are going to use it.
> 
> So answer the question?  What groups do you consider "freedom fighters" and which ones "terrorists"



I did not give myself any loophole at all. The word strategic was used in conjunction with the recognized distinctions between guerilla war and terrorism, in this case strategic referring to the sorts of targets already listed.

If Palestinians targeted a military, governmental or intelligence gathering operation, that would be considered strategic. Targeting civilians and individuals isn't.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


A Common Core victim, publik skool, that is, solly.


JoeB131 said:


> Anyway, there were Palestinians before 1948. ...


[yawn] And they have been jews. Arabs knew that a _palestinian_ meant a _jew_ and preferred to be just arabs, of course.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


> [
> 
> Jews make up 75% of Israel. A Palestinian majority in Israel proper is a looooooong time away, IF it ever occurs. And Israelis aren't going back to Europe, as much as you would like them too.



Again, you are engaging in selective math. 

There are 6 million Jews in Israel proper (pre-1967 borders) and 1 million Arabs within those borders. 

There are 1.6 million  people in Gaza and 2.5 million on the west bank. 

There are another 2 million or so Palestinian refugees living in surrounding countries. 




toastman said:


> [
> BTW, should Japanese living in America go back to Japan ?
> Should Filipino's living in Canada go back to the Philippines ?
> Should Germans living in Guatemala go back to Germany ?



if they started insisting that they were living in their own countries instead of the ones they were living in, um, yeah, I'd seriously consider it.


----------



## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



What countries are they living in then ? I'm talking about those born in Israel


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Sadly, we ethnically cleanse people all the time.



We do.

That doesn't mean it should be supported or that we shouldn't fight against it.



> At some point, Arabs will be in the majority.  Which means one of three things will happen.
> 
> 1) THey will split Israel and Palestine into two states that will constantly be squabbling over territory.



That is the most likely to happen - 2 states.  And who knows - they may come to peace once the Palestinians have a state and something worth preserving and growing.  It also means that as a state - they will be held to the same standards as any other state in the International Community.



> 2) Israel will have to either ethnically cleanse the Palestinians, or reduce them to a Apartheid State like the South Africans tried (and failed) to do with Homelands.



The West Bank and Gaza has upwards of...what...4.5 million or so?  You can't move that many people with out huge international and humanitarian repercussions.



> 3) The Palestinians will vote Israel out of existence, and a lot of the Europeans will go back to Europe where they belong.



Where they "belong"???  They've lived in Israel for generations now.  If you view that as a solution, then you have to untangle the non-indiginous Palestinian Arabs who migrated there and send them "back where they belong".  You'd have to move something like 5 million people to "Europe".  Again.  A humanitarian nightmare and an action that would provoke a huge international response.



> And it never should have gotten this far.
> 
> You see, the amazing thing about South Africa was that the blacks didn't seek revenge once they had the upper hand.  they even let white folks  keep most of their stuff.
> 
> I just can't see the Palestinians being so accommedating.



The amazing thing about South Africa is they had Nelson Mandela.  Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis have a Mandela.  And they need one.


----------



## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



We are talking about Israel proper. Jews make up 75% of the population. What does the West Bank and Gaza have to do with it ?


----------



## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



No actually you are an idiot. America never call Bin Laden a freedom fighter, however it did indirectly AND KNOWINGLY support jihadists to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan, which did occur.  At no time was America under the delusion that they were freedom fighters.  They were Jihadists from OTHER Arab or Muslim countries who came into Afghanistan to drive the infidels out.  

At that time it was in America's NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST to do that.  You should look it up. Just like America is now contemplating cooperating with Iran or Assad INDIRECTLY in order to destroy ISIS.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > You gave yourself a loophole with "strategic".  I just wonder how you are going to use it.
> ...



Ok.  That I agree with.

Now answer the question.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> ... There are another 2 million or so Palestinian refugees living in surrounding countries. ...


Professional "refugees", indeed.


----------



## MaryL (Oct 12, 2014)

Edmund Burke said:"All that is necessary for the *triumph* of *evil* is that *good* *men* *do* *nothing*."  Where are all these so called "good" Muslims?


----------



## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



I hesitate to go so far when it's easy to argue historical events in hindsight.

Dresden: Bombing of Dresden in World War II - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
_Dresden was Germany's seventh-largest city and, according to the RAF at the time, the largest remaining unbombed built-up area.[27] Taylor writes that an official 1942 guide to the city described it as "one of the foremost industrial locations of the Reich" and in 1944, the German Army High Command's Weapons Office listed 127 medium-to-large factories and workshops that were supplying the army with materiel.[28] The contribution to the German war effort may not have been as significant as the planners thought.[29]_​
Hiroshima was even more complicated - we were at war and we needed an end quickly and decisively.  Japan's emporor was not going to surrender otherwise.  At least that was the thinking at the time.

I don't think I'd consider it terrorism.  But it does show that maybe the line isn't always clear.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...





 What theft of land they did not own any, they lost it all in 1099 when the crusaders beat them to a pulp. The last muslims to own the land of Palestine were the Ottomans who transferred it to the LoN as reparations for WW1. The Lon transferred the land to make Iraq, Syria, Transjordan and the RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS. No mention in any treaty or agreement of the Palestinian arab muslims other than to say they could stay as peaceful citizens of Eretz Ysrael or they could move to Jordan, Syria or Iraq.
 You show your complete lack of understanding as to why the IRA mass murdered many people including children, they had nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland that was formed before the IRA was invented. The IRA killed for the simple reason they are racist scum who did not want anyone else to live in N.I. but themselves, they killed atheists, catholics and protestants in equal numbers because they could. They are still killing innocents today because they want to be dictators of Ireland and have failed to unite the republic of Ireland with the five counties. It was the catholics that called in the British because of sectarianism and they turned against them when they would not wipe out the protestants for them, that is how the IRA was formed.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Ok.  That I agree with.
> 
> Now answer the question.




Well, let's see here. One of the two groups in question here rewards mass murdering terrorists with streets being named after them, posters glorifying their actions and much celebration.

One of the group doesn't.

You figure it out.


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights


It is important to point out that political rights to self-determination as a polity for Arabs were guaranteed by the same League of Nations in four other mandates – in Lebanon and Syria (The French Mandate), Iraq, and later Trans-Jordan [The British Mandate].
Any attempt to negate the Jewish people’s right to Palestine - Eretz-Israel, and to deny them access and control in the area designated for the Jewish people by the League of Nations is a serious infringement of international law.


PALESTINE
INTRODUCTORY.
POSITION, ETC.
Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.
On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -
_ North_. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.
_ East_. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.
_ South_. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.
_ West_. – The Mediterranean Sea.


In a report by His Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations on the administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan for the year 1938, the British made it clear: Palestine is not a State, it is the name of a geographical area.13
Palestine is a name coined by the Romans around 135 CE from the name of a seagoing Aegean people who settled on the coast of Canaan in antiquity – the Philistines. The name was chosen to replace Judea, as a sign that Jewish sovereignty had been eradicated following the Jewish Revolts against Rome.
In the course of time, the Latin name Philistia was further bastardized into Palistina or Palestine.14 During the next 2,000 years Palestine was never an independent state belonging to any people, nor did a Palestinian people distinct from other Arabs appear during 1,300 years of Muslim hegemony in Palestine under Arab and Ottoman rule. During that rule, local Arabs were actually considered part of, and subject to, the authority of Greater Syria ( Suriyya al-Kubra).15
Historically, before the Arabs fabricated the concept of Palestinian peoplehood as an exclusively Arab phenomenon, no such group existed. This is substantiated in countless official British Mandate-vintage documents that speak of the Jews and the Arabs of Palestine – not Jews and Palestinians.16
In fact, before local Jews began calling themselves Israelis in 1948 (when the name “Israel” was chosen for the newly-established Jewish State), the term “Palestine” applied almost exclusively to Jews and the institutions founded by new Jewish immigrants in the first half of the 20th century, before the state’s independence.
Some examples include:
_The Jerusalem Post_, founded in 1932, was called _The Palestine Post _until 1948.
Bank Leumi L’Israel, incorporated in 1902, was called the “Anglo-Palestine Company” until 1948.
The Jewish Agency – an arm of the Zionist movement engaged in Jewish settlement since 1929 – was initially called the Jewish Agency for Palestine.
Today’s Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, founded in 1936 by German Jewish refugees who fled Nazi Germany, was originally called the “Palestine Symphony Orchestra,” composed of some 70 Palestinian Jews.17
The United Jewish Appeal (UJA) was established in 1939 as a merger of the United Palestine Appeal and the fund-raising arm of the Joint Distribution Committee.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> The amazing thing about South Africa is they had Nelson Mandela.


If that keeps them happy and stuff, of course.


Coyote said:


> Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis have a Mandela.  And they need one.


No thanks, jews don't need that comrade, and palistanians have their own one, Abu Mazen, with a doctorate from the Moscow Oriental Studies, of course.


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## Friends (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


 
The Moslems should have been expelled right after Israel's thrilling victory in the Six Day War. Few Americans would have cared. We were too busy celebrating the Israeli victory.


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> It seems to me that you are projecting.  The supremacist movement I see is the Zionist one.  The Muslims are fighting mostly among themselves.  The Zionists are the latter day Nazis.  They are holding millions of non-Jews in virtual concentration camps killing thousands of them every year or so.





 The arab muslims have no legal or moral claim to the land of Palestine, they did not even want to go there until the Jews from Europe had made the desert fertile again.


There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
The artificiality of a Palestinian identity is reflected in the attitudes and actions of neighboring Arab nations who never established a Palestinian state themselves.
The rhetoric by Arab leaders on behalf of the Palestinians rings hollow. Arabs in neighboring states, who control 99.9 percent of the Middle East land, have never recognized a Palestinian entity. They have always considered Palestine and its inhabitants part of the great “Arab nation,” historically and politically as an integral part of Greater Syria – Suriyya al-Kubra – a designation that extended to both sides of the Jordan River.20 In the 1950s, Jordan simply annexed the West Bank since the population there was viewed as the brethren of the Jordanians. Jordan’s official narrative of “Jordanian state-building” attests to this fact:


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Ok.  That I agree with.
> ...



You are still ducking and dodging.

What groups do you consider "freedom fighters"?
What groups do you consider "terrorists"?


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Not since you started to bring South Africa, Rhodesia and other far flung nations into the equation. So this means that we can throw in the many ISLAMONAZI and ISLAMOFACIST TERRORIST groups into the pot as examples.

 YOU LOSE AGAIN Mohamed.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

"What theft of land they did not own any"

Owned over 90% of the land per the deeds and land registries as audited by the Mandatory in 1943 and reported to the UN in 1946 in the Survey of Palestine prior to partition.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



We are concerned with ZIONAZIs like you.


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

MaryL said:


> Palestine is a fiction, just like Israel. Muslims and jews coexisted  for a millennium in this area....The British mandate of Palestine that divided Lebanon from Ottoman Syria was created in 1922, and nobody was the wiser. Really, who in the hell is going to care if Jews flee to that almost genetic  homeland and  WHO is going to object if they flee extermination? Americans wouldn't even  let these people in, I don't blame the jews for  going back to square one and creating a homeland from their past as a form of self protection....what else could they do?  Palestinians? They could (hint hint) accept their brothers and live in harmony, not be hateful reactionaries. Muslims are like that. suicide bombers, crash planes into buildings. But that is a different  story...is it? Muslims are always poor little victims, all the time always forever.





 Another ill educated STOOGE that has not heard of the Pact of Umar or the laws of dhimmi that were in evidence from 627 C.E. till the founding of Israel in 1948


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > It seems to me that you are projecting.  The supremacist movement I see is the Zionist one.  The Muslims are fighting mostly among themselves.  The Zionists are the latter day Nazis.  They are holding millions of non-Jews in virtual concentration camps killing thousands of them every year or so.
> ...



As indiginous peoples they have the same claim as the Jews.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine is a fiction, just like Israel. Muslims and jews coexisted  for a millennium in this area....The British mandate of Palestine that divided Lebanon from Ottoman Syria was created in 1922, and nobody was the wiser. Really, who in the hell is going to care if Jews flee to that almost genetic  homeland and  WHO is going to object if they flee extermination? Americans wouldn't even  let these people in, I don't blame the jews for  going back to square one and creating a homeland from their past as a form of self protection....what else could they do?  Palestinians? They could (hint hint) accept their brothers and live in harmony, not be hateful reactionaries. Muslims are like that. suicide bombers, crash planes into buildings. But that is a different  story...is it? Muslims are always poor little victims, all the time always forever.
> ...



Better "ill educated" than uneducated like you ZIONAZI psychopath.


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...





 Freedom fighters are those fighting against terrorists who are trying to wipe out one group and destroy their land

 Terrorists are the group that have it as their charter that they will wipe out the other group and destroy their country.

 Freedom fighters do not target children with high explosives or surround their fighters with civilians so threy wont be the target of return fire.   terrorists do all this and more.


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "What theft of land they did not own any"
> 
> Owned over 90% of the land per the deeds and land registries as audited by the Mandatory in 1943 and reported to the UN in 1946 in the Survey of Palestine prior to partition.




Not according to your original link that showed they only owned 0.8% while the Jews owned 4.8%. What you are trying to pass of as ownership is nothing more than land rented from others and worked for gain.

 Produce the link in full and the web address so I can pick it clean and show your LIES for all to see. Or would you like to admit your LIES now regarding who owned what and were the data came from in the first place...........


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 ANOTHER MASSIVE FAIL BY MR MOHAMED THE ISLAMONAZI LYING PROPAGANDIST


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Not according to CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW they don't, unless you can produce a treaty signed by the LEGAL LAND OWNERS giving the land to the arab muslims.

 Something like this will do

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights


*“In Palestine as of Right and Not on Sufferance ...”*
“When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance.” 

Winston Churchill
British Secretary of State for the Colonies 
June 1922

Recognition of the Historical Connection to Palestine
Fifty-one member countries – the entire League of Nations – unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
“Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.”6
Unlike nation-states in Europe, modern Lebanese, Jordanian, Syrian, and Iraqi nationalities did not evolve. They were arbitrarily created by colonial powers.
In 1919, in the wake of World War I, England and France as Mandatory (e.g., official administrators and mentors) carved up the former Ottoman Empire, which had collapsed a year earlier, into geographic spheres of influence. This divided the Mideast into new political entities with new names and frontiers.7
Territory was divided along map meridians without regard for traditional frontiers (i.e., geographic logic and sustainability) or the ethnic composition of indigenous populations.8
The prevailing rationale behind these artificially created states was how they served the imperial and commercial needs of their colonial masters. Iraq and Jordan, for instance, were created as emirates to reward the noble Hashemite family from Saudi Arabia for its loyalty to the British against the Ottoman Turks during World War I, under the leadership of Lawrence of Arabia. Iraq was given to Faisal bin Hussein, son of the sheriff of Mecca, in 1918. To reward his younger brother Abdullah with an emirate, Britain cut away 77 percent of its mandate over Palestine earmarked for the Jews and gave it to Abdullah in 1922, creating the new country of Trans-Jordan or Jordan, as it was later named.
The Arabs’ hatred of the Jewish State has never been strong enough to prevent the bloody rivalries that repeatedly rock the Middle East. These conflicts were evident in the civil wars in Yemen and Lebanon, as well as in the war between Iraq and Iran, in the gassing of countless Kurds in Iraq, and in the killing of Iraqis by Iraqis.
The manner in which European colonial powers carved out political entities with little regard to their ethnic composition not only led to this inter-ethnic violence, but it also encouraged dictatorial rule as the only force capable of holding such entities together.9
The exception was Palestine, or Eretz-Israel – the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, where:
“The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country [ Palestine] under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”10


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## Phoenall (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...





 Better educated than you will ever be Mohamed, and I know the history of Palestine better than you ever could as I look at all sides of the problem


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## aris2chat (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


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## aris2chat (Oct 12, 2014)

ripping people limb from limb is also done, very public


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Thanks for posting a map showing Palestine's international boundaries. And also saying that Palestine was a country.

Too bad about the Jewish Palestine though. Britain cut and ran without accomplishing that goal.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Good spoof, very funny.


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## aris2chat (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



can't have international boundries of a state that never existed, only boundries of lands that do exist.  Till the creation of Israel, the land was under the rule of the mandate which was tasked in dividing and preparing the people to govern a state.  Palestinians were ill prepared and the arabs states refused them a state.  The people were told by those arab states to leave the land, they were put in refugee camps by those arabs, prevent from returning after the war by those arabs, left in poverty and denied absorptions into those arab states.  They still live on the charity, or lack of, by those arab states.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


You should write a book.

Gullible's Travels


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "What theft of land they did not own any"
> ...



Why are you making things up.  Arabs owned more than 90% of the land and the Jews stole it. Here is the table. from the original link for the hundreth time.  You just can't accept reality and continue with your propaganda and lies:


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## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



No actually Hamas, Islamic jihad and many other Palestinian groups have been clearly designated as a terrorist organization


aris2chat said:


> ripping people limb from limb is also done, very public



Animals.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> No actually you are an idiot. America never call Bin Laden a freedom fighter, however it did indirectly AND KNOWINGLY support jihadists to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan, which did occur.  At no time was America under the delusion that they were freedom fighters.  They were Jihadists from OTHER Arab or Muslim countries who came into Afghanistan to drive the infidels out.
> 
> At that time it was in America's NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST to do that.  You should look it up. Just like America is now contemplating cooperating with Iran or Assad INDIRECTLY in order to destroy ISIS.



Bin Laden was one of the guys specifically fighting the Russians, and Ronald Reagan collectively called those guys freedom fighters.  

He didn't say, "Freedom fighters except for that guy." 

Oh, we knew exactly what kind of assholes we were climbing into bed with. But we had to beat them damned commies!


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## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Said chart comes from the following bullshit propaganda site.

Land Ownership in Palestine Israel 1920-2000 

  I thought you said you link to legitimate sources?  Besides, the fact that large numbers of people from South America immigrated into the US and therefore "own" a majority of property in certain US cities doesn't make them the legal "owners" of that city or state, now does it?  Idiot.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


> [
> 
> We are talking about Israel proper. Jews make up 75% of the population. What does the West Bank and Gaza have to do with it ?



You mean the Zionists still aren't building "Settlements" in the West bank?


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 12, 2014)

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


You should know that I don't buy into that terrorist propaganda crap.


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## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Ronald Reagan was referring to the Taliban, who were Pakistani invaders in Afghanistan, not Bin Ladan who was a Saudi Jihadi. Reagan did what he had to do to ensure that the Russians were kicked out of Afghanistan. Like I said, its call National Security and sometimes you have to sleep with the devil that is the lesser of two evils. 

History proves that Reagan made the right call, and successfully removed the Russians, but later administrations and presidents dropped the ball and ignored Afghanistan, until it became a failed state ruled by Islamists and terrorist organizations from which the plot for 9-11 was launched.


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## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



West Bank as in Judeah and Samaria of ancient Israel, the name for that land for 3000 years until the Arabs changed it to "West Bank" after 1948?  

What right do Jews have to build in their ancient homeland, a land they won in a defensive war in 1967?!  

Build baby build!


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## Hossfly (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Tinmore, every country in the world has been surveyed to determine borders and boundaries. Each country's Bureau of Land Management has topographical maps and plats of the  country, states, counties, and townships. Also of reservations, parks and government lands. These are registered with the UNs Topographical Department and are availabe to all. Could you please end this bickering and provide those Palestinian maps? Here's a little info about surveying. You'll note that surveys started with the Ancient Egyptians.


http://www.vermessungsseiten.de/englisch/vermtech/introduction.htm


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## Hossfly (Oct 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Of course you wouldn't, Miss Goodie Two Shoes.


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## Lipush (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



No, far from it.

We have a list of names, and they're conveniently "civilians" on those reports, but also "Activists" in others.

That's factually the case. I don't believe Natanyahu's propaganda, I can do my own self checking.

Maybe YOU'RE the one believing Palestinian propaganda. Sounds more logical.


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


I was talking about Israel proper


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



Some people say the bombing saved lives because had it not happened, the war would continue and more people would die.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

They called these women freedom fighters.  When the Palestinians do anything similar they are called terrorists.  Why, because the targets are Jews rather than French.  Get the hypocrisy?


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> They called these women freedom fighters.  When the Palestinians do anything similar they are called terrorists.  Why, because the targets are Jews rather than French.  Get the hypocrisy?



Palestinians aren't terrorists. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are Palestinian terrorist groups.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Were the FLN (National Liberation Front), the people in the clip that organized bombings of the French civilians, Algerian terrorists or Freedom Fighters?


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



That is what I heard.  I also remember reading, somewhere, that the Japanese would not have surrendered with out a strong, powerful statement like that.

Either way...I would hate to have been the one to make that choice...that is why I dislike passing judgement on something in hindsight like that


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > The amazing thing about South Africa is they had Nelson Mandela.
> ...



It has nothing to do with "keeping them happy".  It's about having a well respected leader who is able to convince his people - ALL his people - that unity and reconciliation is more important than revenge.

I don't think that is something to trivialize - whether for Jews or Palestininans.


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



I don't think that definition of "freedom fighters" exists anywhere outside your own head.



> Terrorists are the group that have it as their charter that they will wipe out the other group and destroy their country.



Terrorists have charters?  Fancy that.



> Freedom fighters do not target children with high explosives or surround their fighters with civilians so threy wont be the target of return fire.   terrorists do all this and more.



Ok.  Give me some examples of freedom fighter groups then since Dogma seems unable to.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> Ronald Reagan was referring to the Taliban, who were Pakistani invaders in Afghanistan, not Bin Ladan who was a Saudi Jihadi. Reagan did what he had to do to ensure that the Russians were kicked out of Afghanistan. Like I said, its call National Security and sometimes you have to sleep with the devil that is the lesser of two evils.
> 
> History proves that Reagan made the right call, and successfully removed the Russians, but later administrations and presidents dropped the ball and ignored Afghanistan, until it became a failed state ruled by Islamists and terrorist organizations from which the plot for 9-11 was launched.



Uh, no, guy.  The world is NOT better off because we funded religious fanatics in Afghanistan. We lit a fire that eventually came back and  burned us.  The Soviets were not the "Lesser evil".  The Jihadists were. 

And Ronnie Raygun never made a distinction between the native afghan resistance fighters (funded and manipulated by Pakistani intelligence) and the thousands of Arab Jihadists who migrated their to fight the unbelievers. Nor did the CIA< who armed and trained both.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

The ANC bombed shopping centers, hotels, court houses etc.  They are considered Freedom Fighters.  The Muhajedin in Afghanistan bombed girls schools, markets and restaurants, especially in Kabul.  The U.S. considered them Freedom Fighters and armed them since they were fighting the Russians.  Dogma is so full of shit it AIN'T FUNNY.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> West Bank as in Judeah and Samaria of ancient Israel, the name for that land for 3000 years until the Arabs changed it to "West Bank" after 1948?
> 
> ...



So when the Arabs eventually drive them out- and they will - you will be cool with that?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 12, 2014)

Lipush said:


> [
> 
> No, far from it.
> 
> ...



Wow, seriously?  Someone is an "activist", that makes it okay to kill them?

And Zionists wonder why the whole world hates you.


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

It's hard coming up with a definition of "freedom fighter" or "terrorist" that doesn't overlap.

Freedom fighters often use terrorist tactics.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> It's hard coming up with a definition of "freedom fighter" or "terrorist" that doesn't overlap.
> 
> Freedom fighters often use terrorist tactics.



I did, but since you are dishonest by nature, you ignored the definition and engaged in underhanded speciousness, instead.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Defensive war my ass. Israel started the war and it was not pre-emptive (which is an excuse warmongering nations like Nazi Germany and Israel use to justify starting wars)

"
*Israel’s attack on Egypt in June ’67 was not ‘preemptive’*
*by Jeremy R. Hammond   |  July 4, 2010

It is often claimed that Israel’s attack on Egypt that began the June 1967 “Six Day War” was a “preemptive” one. Implicit in that description is the notion that Israel was under imminent threat of an attack from Egypt. Yet this historical interpretation of the war is not sustained by the documentary record.....the CIA assessed that Nasser’s military presence in the Sinai was defensive"

Israel s attack on Egypt in June 67 was not preemptive - Foreign Policy Journal*


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > It's hard coming up with a definition of "freedom fighter" or "terrorist" that doesn't overlap.
> ...



And, you are full of crap by nature.  You define any group whose ends you disagree with as terrorists and those whose ends you agree with as Freedom Fighters.  Your kind posts here all the time.


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



LOL of course it was a pre emptive strike. Egypt massed troops on the border, expelled the peacekeeping troops that were placed there after the last war, made threats of annihalation to Israel. These are all facts. You see what I mean when I say you spew propaganda? LOL

And your Nazi comparison is as pathetic as you.


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
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> > Coyote said:
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You're a Muslim who supports terrorism. You are pure Nazi scum


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


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Of course, you won't read a neutral link which documents exactly why the Israeli attack was not pre-emptive.  The CIA indicated that the Egyptians were defensive, fearful of an Israeli attack, which the U.S. Ambassador had warned Nasser of.  The warmongering savages did in fact attack the Egyptians.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> And, you are full of crap by nature.  You define any group whose ends you disagree with as terrorists and those whose ends you agree with as Freedom Fighters.  Your kind posts here all the time.



I provided a definition so as to distinguish between the two.

You are terrorist supporter, so you you seek to justify your hatred. I am not, so I can be objective.


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > It's hard coming up with a definition of "freedom fighter" or "terrorist" that doesn't overlap.
> ...



You're back! 

Maybe now you can actually answer the questions you've been dodging.  Can you provide some examples of groups you consider to be freedom fighters and groups you consider to be terrorists?


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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Warmongering savages LOL !! More propaganda and   and history distortion. Why would Israel want to attack Egypt and provoke other states surrounding her?

How does it feel to be so full of shit?


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > And, you are full of crap by nature.  You define any group whose ends you disagree with as terrorists and those whose ends you agree with as Freedom Fighters.  Your kind posts here all the time.
> ...



No, you are the terrorist supporter.  You support the murder of Palestinian children by the Israelis.  That is terrorism.


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


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I forgot to mention that Egypt also closed the Straits of Tiran, which itself is an act of war and Israel had said previously that doing so would be an act of aggression.


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


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I don't support murder and I never have. Civilian getting killed as a result of collateral damage is not murder. Unless you can prove that Israel launched strikes in order to intentionally kill civilians. Can you??


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## aris2chat (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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Egypt had declared war on Israel, prevented access to the Suez canal, threw UN peace keepers out and amassed an army ready to invade.  Israel's actions were not pre-emptive.  Israel responded to the war egypt started.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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You didn't read that bit I guess.

"*.the CIA assessed that Nasser’s military presence in the Sinai was defensive"*


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## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Rrrrrrrright, why it's Jeremy Hammond!  Who?  Yes, another professional liar for Pali-Nazis. This must be one more of your "legit" sources.  Ha ha ha.


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## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Yep, why "them" poor Arabs never wanted to harm Israel.  All those exclamations of "driving the  Jews into the sea" and "destroying Israel"were all fiction, made up. What a lying fulla shit ahole you are.


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## Roudy (Oct 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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News flash to Joe Moron, THE ARABS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DRIVE THE JEWS OUT FOR 70 YEARS.

I'm cool with that as long as you're cool with Israel having the same ability to determine its destiny, and annexing the West Bank, land it conquered in a defensive war,  and getting this BS over with once and for all.  Let the games begin.


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## montelatici (Oct 12, 2014)

Roudy said:


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NEWSFLASH THE JEWS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DRIVE OUT THE CHRISTIANS AN MUSLIMS FOR 125 YEARS.  (SINCE THE EUROPEAN JEWS BEGAN INVADING)


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You're back!
> 
> Maybe now you can actually answer the questions you've been dodging.  Can you provide some examples of groups you consider to be freedom fighters and groups you consider to be terrorists?



 I don't jump through hoops, especially at the behest of patently dishonest Arab posters.

I provided descriptions of the differences between actions that are terrorist in nature and those that would constitute freedom fighting.  

deal with it.


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## Coyote (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
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> > You're back!
> ...



Ok.  You're full of shit then.

You provide definitions (after much obfuscation) that sound pretty in theory.  Yet you can't answer a simple direct question and give real life examples..


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 12, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Ok.  You're full of shit then.
> 
> You provide definitions (after much obfuscation) that sound pretty in theory.  Yet you can't answer a simple direct question and give real life examples..



No obfuscation, and the descriptions I offered are well recognized as forming the distinctions between the two actions.

Like any Pallywood propagandist, though, you are a  lowlife who is unwilling to apply consistent standards to evaluate actions because doing so would cause your entire lowlife house of cards to come crashing down.


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## theliq (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


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Gee Toastie,Israel are so caring and understanding to everyone except themselves.....shit how could I have been SO WRONG......I may owe you a profound apologie.........NOT..steve


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## theliq (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
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> > Ok.  You're full of shit then.
> ...


Dogmaphobe =/means IGNORE..........BIGTIME


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## theliq (Oct 12, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
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To dissect your comment further...did you mean Christian or Muslim Arabs or both ???????


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## toastman (Oct 12, 2014)

theliq said:


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WTF are you blabbing about now ? You are such a waste of space.


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## theliq (Oct 12, 2014)

toastman said:


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No.......just sarcastically reminding you how inaccurate some of your outrageous comments really are.....it was the Israelis that pre-empted and started the 6 Day War...steve,I think you have good motive but your knowledge of Israeli-Arab History has a lot to be desired


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

O


montelatici said:


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montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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NEWSFLASH, THE JEWS HAVE BEEN THERE & HAD TIES TO THE LAND FOR OVER 3000 YEARS, WAY BEFORE YOUR INVADING ARABS OF (ACCORDING TO YOU) 125 YEARS AGO.


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## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


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An invasion is a military offensive. I have proved this 100 times with links already, yet you still resort to lying to further your agenda.
Now, show me some proof that Jews were trying to drive out Christians and Muslims lets says 100 years ago....give me at least 2 specific incidents


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

theliq said:


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Why do you guys keep repeating this tired old garbage?  What is so hard for you to understand, the Arabs by their own actions declared war and threatened the existence of Israel, and Israel responded the way it had to. The Arabs asked for it, and got what they deserved.  No closing of the straight by Egypt, no five Arab nations ganging up with massive lineup of troops on Israel's borders, no Arabs getting their asses kicked.  Capiche?


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


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In fact the first recorded genocide and ethnic cleansing is when Arab animals attacked and massacred the ancient a Jews of Hebron in 1929.  It was then that the Jews realized that they need to arm and defend themselves from these savages who cannot coexist with anybody.

In essence the Hebron massacre was the opening salvo of the civil war between Jews and Arabs, and as we can see the Arabs are still whining over the fact that they lost this war, not once, but many times.  Low learning curve.  LOL


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## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

theliq said:


> toastman said:
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I know Israel pre emptively struck Egypt. But what was so ridiculous about what I said about Egypt massing troops by the border, expelling peacekeeping troops, closing the straits of Tiran etc.... ?


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## aris2chat (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


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Israel was outnumbered 2/1 by just the egyptians and 4/1 by all the other forces against Israel.


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


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 Thanks for saying it was Jewish Palestine and that the arab muslims had no right to be there



montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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 Yes the country of JEWISH PALESTINE until it became Eretz Ysrael, it was never to be arab muslim Palestine. Could still happen if the Palestinians don't get their act together and start talking peace and mutual borders. Israel holds all the aces so the best hope for Palestine is to fold


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Were is table 1 and the link that shows you to be a fool and a LIAR, you know table 1 that says that the arabs owned 0.8% of the land and the Jews owned 4.8% of the land. Because table 1 spelt out the facts you now don't include it in your ISLAMONAZO PROPAGANDA LIES. Once table 2 is shown to be saying something different to what you are claiming this will be dropped as well. Now look closely at the bottom and tell the board why if the arabs are allegedlt supposed to own 90% of the land they don't pay 9 times more tax than the Jews, instead they pay much less than the Jews. Just another nail in the coffin of your LIES


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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On Jewish owned land stole by the Palestinians in 1948/1949. Have you heard of the right of return, and do you think it only applies to arab muslims who have lived in the west bank for the last two years.


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


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 Not forgetting they also threatened to wipe out the Jews and destroy Israel just two days before Israel struck, which was 1 day before the planned invasion of Israel by the arab muslims


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Absolutely not.

It applies to everyone.


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


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 So you have no problem with the Jews taking it up and reclaiming their land in the west bank ?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> News flash to Joe Moron, THE ARABS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DRIVE THE JEWS OUT FOR 70 YEARS.
> 
> I'm cool with that as long as you're cool with Israel having the same ability to determine its destiny, and annexing the West Bank, land it conquered in a defensive war,  and getting this BS over with once and for all.  Let the games begin.



200 Million Arabs vs. 6 Million Jews.  Yeah, that's going to work out really well for you. 

Especially when you have these young Israelis who are truly wondering what their grandparents were thinking. 

You see, here's the thing I don't get.  If my neighbors announced their intent to kill me at every oppurtunity, I'd seriously move out of that neighborhood.  

But the Zionists... welp, nope.  They are totally going to fight to the last man.  And they'll hold the rest of the world hostage, like they did in 1973 when the Arabs were going to push them into the sea, and they threatened to use nukes if Nixon didn't bale them out. (The thing Tricky Dick should have been impeached for.)  

Israel will be eliminated, sooner or later, and the world will cheer when it happens.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


> O
> 
> NEWSFLASH, THE JEWS HAVE BEEN THERE & HAD TIES TO THE LAND FOR OVER 3000 YEARS, WAY BEFORE YOUR INVADING ARABS OF (ACCORDING TO YOU) 125 YEARS AGO.



No, the Zionists are a bunch of Russian Europeans.  They have nothing in common with the Judeans other than a Religion.  The Palestinians are closer in relation to the Judeans.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 13, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Not at all. Many Jews got screwed from places like East Jerusalem, Hebron, and even Gaza. I believe, for the most part, that they were native Palestinian Jews. When the RoR is approved, they should be able to return also.


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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Yeah, amazing, how dare the Jews defending themselves from savage IslamoNazis.

You anti Semites keep jerking off to Israel's destruction.  Been keeping up with the news, have you?  Muslims are too busy killing themselves by the hundreds of thousands in a sectarian war, as usual.  This one may even last a few centuries, and will decimate the entire region with no real "states", infrastructure and militaries left standing.  

And the only ones that will remain, will be naturally become Israel's allies.

That means Israel will still be here many generations after dogs are done peeing on your grave.


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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At this point, a majority of Israelis are Sephardic (Jews from the Middle East or descendants of) who fled Muslim savagery.  The Palestinians are Arab invaders from neighboring countries and are no more natives of the land than the Jews that migrated from Europe.


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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Yeah, after all, Muslims have shown such warmth and hospitality towards Jews and others in Palestine and elsewhere in the Middle East. 

Non Muslims should truly embrace the idea of ISOP, Islamic Kaifate of Palestine, led by Hamas animals. Why not?  Ha ha ha.


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> toastman said:
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Problem with Arabs / Muslims is they never learn and think they have this God given right to keep committing atrocities against others, with no consequence.


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## Coyote (Oct 13, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Ok.  You're full of shit then.
> ...



More talking point insults and still unable to provide any examples of "freedom fighters".

Definitions look pretty on paper - kind of like Communism sounds great in theory.  But in real life they are usually messy and far less clear cut.  That's why I'm curious to see who you consider to be legitimate "freedom fighters".  Why are you so unwilling to provide some examples _Dogma_?


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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 You can of course produce the evidence that Israel threatened to use nuclear weapons, from a non partisan source of course


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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The Palestinians were the Judeans until Arafat was told to steal the name by his Russian minders.


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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 So who has to approve it, the UN has already put it in place. It is the arab league that is stopping the Palestinians from taking it up.


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## Phoenall (Oct 13, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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 I gave my answer, not my fault it wasn't the one you wanted to see


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## aris2chat (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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>>At no time in modern history did the Palestinians have legal control over their land until the creation of the Palestinian Authority in 1994. Now their representatives have control of land ownership in the territories from which Israel has withdrawn; that is, zones A and B (30% of the West Bank and 70% of Gaza).<<

This information predates the withdrawal of gaza

>>However, in terms of preventing Palestinians from selling land to Israelis, the PA has been less successful. In addition to the confiscated land, much West Bank land was sold to Israelis during the occupation. Purchases by the Hemanuta company, a subsidiary of the Jewish National Fund, began in 1971 and sales to private Israelis started in 1979. The company claims, in particular, to own the land on which stands the Palestinian refugee camp of Deheisheh, near Bethlehem, as well as a large area between the town and the settlement of Gilo (1). Statistics are hard to find, but some 100 sq km was sold between 1971-83 alone. Sometimes land was sold knowingly, with the Palestinian vendors provided with new homes in the West Bank, Jordan or even abroad. On other occasions, the sales took place through forged documents.

Sales have continued after the establishment of the PA. For instance, the Tel Aviv-based Bat-Hen Tshuva Group raised $35m from foreign Jews in autumn 1996 to buy land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. It also made purchases in and near Hebron and East Jerusalem at astronomical prices.<<  Who owns what - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

>>... judicial and administrative structure assumed Israeli control over 52% of the area of the West Bank by 1986 (Benvenisti et al., 1986). 41% of this area is under direct Israeli possession, while
the other II % is placed under severe restrictions<<  http://scholar.najah.edu/sites/default/files/conference-paper/historical-review-land-tenure.pdf


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## Coyote (Oct 13, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Is your name Dogma?


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## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
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Can you believe this idiot Nazi Joe? He asked why didn't the Jews leave when they were threatened by Arabs. 
Maybe because they aren't pussies like him. What an idiot. 
Let you masturbate to Israel's destruction like he always has. You can't debate with a person as hateful as him.


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## toastman (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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How did Israel hold the world hostage in 1973 ?


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

toastman said:


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Yeah what's wrong with those Jews?  Why are they fighting and winning?  Why can't they be like before, just get up and leave, or better yet, let people annihilate them. This is basically what has dumbfounded all the Jew haters out there.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 13, 2014)

Coyote said:


> More talking point insults and still unable to provide any examples of "freedom fighters".
> 
> Definitions look pretty on paper - kind of like Communism sounds great in theory.  But in real life they are usually messy and far less clear cut.  That's why I'm curious to see who you consider to be legitimate "freedom fighters".  Why are you so unwilling to provide some examples _Dogma_?



If you consider my telling the truth to be an insult, perhaps it is time for you to do a little soul searching as to why that is. I would recommend a course of action where you develop truth as your goal rather than deception.

 At that point, you cease to be a lowlife and begin your path towards something better. 

  For now, though, you can continue all your Arab bullshit all you want, but at the end of the day, the intentional killing of innocent people is still terrorism, and targeting those who are doing this intentional killing isn't -- even if the demands of your hateful propaganda tries to say otherwise.


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## Coyote (Oct 13, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > More talking point insults and still unable to provide any examples of "freedom fighters".
> ...



Still at it with the childish insults I see

" the intentional killing of innocent people is still terrorism, and targeting those who are doing this intentional killing isn't" - I agree, I don't think I've said anything different in that regard.  Feel free to provide some quotes of my "hateful propaganda".  As I recall, that is another one of your typical failures.  Make claims about a person then fail to back it up.

*So what examples of freedom fighters can you come up with?*


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## Hossfly (Oct 13, 2014)

theliq said:


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## Lipush (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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"Activists" means Hamas people.

No, the whole world doesn't hate us. Clueless people do.


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## Lipush (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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Nobody will drive the Jews out.

So land back in reality. Sorry, but your dreams about another Exodus won't happen


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 13, 2014)

Lipush said:


> No, the whole world doesn't hate us. Clueless people do.




Some are certainly clueless, but I  would say malevolence is also a reason.

It usually boils down to some combination of stupid and evil. The more of one, the less necessary the other.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 13, 2014)

[QUOTE="Coyote, post: 9963525, member: 19170" ]



*So what examples of freedom fighters can you come up with?*[/QUOTE]

You are certainly as belligerent as you are dishonest..

 AS to one example, however, I will offer something that would only result in their being killed were it to occur in Arab lands,  but the Stonewall riots are a good example of freedom fighting.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Yeah, amazing, how dare the Jews defending themselves from savage IslamoNazis.
> 
> ...



Israel will be gone by the end of the century.  And good riddance.  

And the Jews wouldn't have a problem with "IslamoNazis"" (Seriously do you read comic books or something) if they stayed the fuck in Europe and didn't steal their land.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> At this point, a majority of Israelis are Sephardic (Jews from the Middle East or descendants of) who fled Muslim savagery.  The Palestinians are Arab invaders from neighboring countries and are no more natives of the land than the Jews that migrated from Europe.



Well, true. to a degree, the Europeans who started Zionism have moved back to Europe, leaving those poor people holding the bag for the inevitable ass-kicking.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 13, 2014)

Lipush said:


> [
> 
> "Activists" means Hamas people.
> 
> No, the whole world doesn't hate us. Clueless people do.



Hamas is a political party.  

So 9/11 was okay as an act of war becaue most of the folks in that building were either Republicans or Democrats.  

Oh, sorry, Israel is really hated in those parts of the world where the Zionists don't control the media like this one. 

Even the Jerusalem Post admits this. 

Israel retained its position as one of the world's most negatively-viewed countries, according to BBC's annual poll published Wednesday night.

With 50 percent of respondents ranking Israel negatively, Israel keeps company with North Korea, and places ahead of only Iran (55% negative) and Pakistan (51% negative).

This was BEFORE the latest slaughter in Gaza, BTW.


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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Vegas money has it that Moooslems will keep slaughtering each other like they have been for the last 1400 years, until the entire region turns into failed states and Mooooslem supremacists too busy trying to figure out new ways to kill more of each other to determine which version of barbaric Islamic is the true one.


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## Roudy (Oct 13, 2014)

Where do you get your


JoeB131 said:


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"


JoeB131 said:


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I wonder where Joe Blow gets his facts?  From the same place as Monty I bet.  In his world "all the Europeans who started Zionism have moved back to Europe".  Ha ha ha. What entertainment, and imagine its FREE!  

My question is, which asylum is it that allows patients like Joe Blow such  unrestricted computer access?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Vegas money has it that Moooslems will keep slaughtering each other like they have been for the last 1400 years, until the entire region turns into failed states and Mooooslem supremacists too busy trying to figure out new ways to kill more of each other to determine which version of barbaric Islamic is the true one.



Wow, I imagine a Nazi saying something like that about the Jews and other "_Untermensch_". 

Lovely.  After years of denouncing the Nazis, the Zionists have become the Nazis.  Awesome. 

the Star of David will be as hated as the Swastika some day.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> I wonder where Joe Blow gets his facts?  From the same place as Monty I bet.  In his world "all the Europeans who started Zionism have moved back to Europe".  Ha ha ha. What entertainment, and imagine its FREE!
> 
> My question is, which asylum is it that allows patients like Joe Blow such  unrestricted computer access?



Which is it, guy. Are the Zionists Middle Eastern Jews wanting to breathe free or just the Jews of Europe who stole someone else's land?


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


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Nope, it's the Muslims that are trying to complete what the Nazis couldn't. After all they were best buddies, and nazism has been blended with Islamism perfectly, thanks to the Palestinian Mufti. 

Amin Al Husseini Nazi Father of Jihad Al Qaeda Arafat Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder where Joe Blow gets his facts?  From the same place as Monty I bet.  In his world "all the Europeans who started Zionism have moved back to Europe".  Ha ha ha. What entertainment, and imagine its FREE!
> ...



The land did not belong to the Arabs, it was Ottoman territory for 600 years, and after that fell under the control if the British. And majority of Israelis today are Jews who fled Muslim shitholes, or descendants of.  That is a fact, look it up.  Parroting Islamist propaganda out of Uranus won't make it true.  

And oh, can you show us how "Europeans who started Zionism have moved back to Europe"' , Joe Blow?  Can't wait to see that one.


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## Coyote (Oct 14, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> [QUOTE="Coyote, post: 9963525, member: 19170" ]
> 
> You are certainly as belligerent as you are dishonest..
> 
> AS to one example, however, I will offer something that would only result in their being killed were it to occur in Arab lands,  but the Stonewall riots are a good example of freedom fighting.




Belligerant?  Dishonest?  That's funny coming from you 

Yup.  That is a good example - thanks for providing one.  Finally.

Here is my opinion on the whole thing - there is little difference many so-called "freedom fighters" and terrorists.  Most "freedom fighters" - particularly those with nationalistic aims - end up resorting to terrorist tactics at some point in their campaign.  Once that happens - they've lost any claim to their being a "distinction" because there isn't.  What ends up happening is that the victor gets to white-wash his side in history and the loser becomes the "terrorist".  My argument (and despite your assholery it has been consistent) - is that there is no moral justification for targeting civilian populations for the sole purpose of terrorizing a group into complying with an agenda.  There is no moral justification in bombing public markets, shooting buses of school children, shooting or bombing churches, synagogues ,mosques or other places of worship, suicide bombing public cafes or kidnapping and beheading journalists.  If a group is going to use terrorist tactics then be honest about it - don't white wash it in "freedom fighter" clothing.


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## teddyearp (Oct 14, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> 200 Million Arabs vs. 6 Million Jews.  Yeah, that's going to work out really well for you



The problem with that theory is that many of the Arabs are too busy arguing and fighting amongst themselves.  The rest are getting sick and tired of Hamas' antics.



JoeB131 said:


> <SNIP>  And they'll hold the rest of the world hostage, like they did in 1973 when the Arabs were going to push them into the sea, and they threatened to use nukes if Nixon didn't bale them out.



A tiny stretch of the truth there?  Maybe?


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land, bozo.


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## teddyearp (Oct 14, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> So 9/11 was okay as an act of war becaue most of the folks in that building were either Republicans or Democrats.
> 
> Oh, sorry, Israel is really hated in those parts of the world where the Zionists don't control the media like this one.
> 
> ...



Do you have any links to back these claims?


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## teddyearp (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land, bozo.
> 
> View attachment 32854



Oh for crying out loud!!!! How many times are you going to bring this one out???? No body believes it but you.  Everyone else sees right through it.

As it clearly shows* who paid the most taxes* and therefore were most productive!


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land, bozo.
> ...



Of course the Israel Firsters won't accept the facts.  This is from the final survey of Palestine before partition and the deeds and land registries.  What can you see through?  Jews owned more valuable land based on more recent sales price information (this happens where land value is based on actual sales price, not assessments), so they paid higher real estate taxes, it has nothing to do with productivity. The fact is, the Arabs owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition:


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## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

take away foreign owned, church and public land it is more like a 4/1 of arab owned land, yet jews are paying 4 times the tax.

what people seem to forget is the map of the world as we know it was a post war creation.  It was not just a division of mandate land but africa, southern asia, europe and even south/central america.
Jordan, Israel and the offer of a palestine was just a part of the changes after the fall of the axis powers.  There had never been a state of palestine with a palestinian people.  It was an offer that the arabs refuse.

In 1943 the war was still going on.  It was a time of people from the region, arab and jew, seeking refuge in the european mandate.  They also moved seeking jobs in the oil industry.  Oil vital to the war effort, both axis and ally.

Lebanon had autonomy since the 19th C.  The rest of the middle east was a creation after the fall of the empire.  Those states are no less legitimate that Israel or any post WWI or WWII country.  Maps changed with the fall of the USSR and still in flux with the Islamist movements.

Palestine can exist but the PA needs to sit down with Israel and negotiate what the state will consist of.  It is not for the PA to lay down demands, especially not that might threaten the security of Israel.
A palestine cannot have an armed militia (hamas) in gaza and Israel must be recognized by palestinians and the arab world.  It should also not be a "jew free" apartheid state.  Jews were forced out of the arab world and from the west bank under jordan.  Jews that returned to those palestinian lands should be allowed to stay, but as palestinian jews.  They should be allowed if they choose to return to gaza.  Christians should also be protected.  Hostility of other religions must be loudly condemned.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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So?  They invaded and squatted.  Doesn't make them the "owners of the land" as much as it doesn't make Mexicans the owners of Arizona, California, or Texas, just because they immigrated and populated certain areas of these states in abnormally high numbers. 

The LAND was owned by the Ottoman Turks, that is indisputable historical fact.  And I'm still waiting on Joe Blow to show us how "Europeans who started Zionism have moved back to Europe"'?


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land, bozo.
> ...



He has this bullshit chart from a Moooslem site that he keeps posting.  That's all he has, repetitive garbage propaganda.


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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No, they owned the land as per the land ownership registries and deeds, as audited by the British prior to partition.  They owned the land for over 2 millenia. The squatters are the Jews that invaded from Europe and stole the land from the rightful and legal owners.

It is not Islamist propaganda, it is fact as reported by the Mandatory, as requested by the UN, prior to partition. As reported, the land was not owned by the Ottomans, it was owned by the Palestinian Arabs, over 9% of it was.  As documented.  You see little punk Ruddy, you scream and stamp your feet all you want, but the facts are the facts and none of your silly propaganda is fact, just Zionist lies.


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> teddyearp said:
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No, it is the 1946 Survey of Palestine a UN document available from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive, a Jewish site.  Why are you always lying?

*A Survey of Palestine Volume 1*
Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946

The material assembled in this publication is a survey of Palestine and was prepared between the middle of December, 1945, and the end of January, 1946. The object of the survey was to examine the conditions in Palestine with special attention to subjects bearing on absorptive capacity.
Topic: History, Israeli-Arab Relations, Farming, Demography, Refugees, Politics, Israeli Settlements,Political Behavior, Arab-Israeli Relations, Management and Administration, Agriculture, Immigration,Law, Finance, Geography, Government

Genre: Report

Coverage: Israel

Language: English

Copyright Holder: Publisher

Copyright Information: Download for personal use, freely distribute link


A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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Blah blah blah.  It was Ottoman territory for 600 years, you fucking ignorant moron. And then when the Ottoman Empire collapsed after WWI, the conquerers, IE the British and the French, decided to do whatever they pleased with conquered land. That means the land had not been Arab controlled or owned for about 700 years.  Out of this conquered land, 99.99% ended up becoming Arab Muslim shitholes, and ONE tiny Jewish state.  

You assholes are upset about that?  Too fucking bad.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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And yet, it was the Anglo-British, the people who controlled the land, that decided it would be fair and rightful to create a Jewish state.  Ha ha ha.  God you are so stupid.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 14, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, I imagine a Nazi saying something like that about the Jews and other "_Untermensch_". Lovely.  After years of denouncing the Nazis, the Zionists have become the Nazis.  Awesome. the Star of David will be as hated as the Swastika some day.


Drivel.


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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You are making things up, with nothing to back up your claims.  I am linking to an actual survey, performed by an independent organization that determined who owned the land and reported this to the UN prior to partition. Let me remind you.  Arabs owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  This land was stolen from them by the European settlers.  This is just a fact, see below and reconfirm, if you like by going to this Jewish site that hosts the survey:

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner



 .


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## docmauser1 (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land, bozo.


Yeah, all of them settling-squatting "sheiks"! Hilarious!


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Well, that doesn't change the fact that the land was stolen by the European Jews.  Since the Palestinians have never stopped demanding that their land be returned, not even squatter's rights come into the picture for the Jews.  Oh dear.


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Arabs owned more than 90% of the land, bozo.
> ...



As it says, the Arabs, not sure how many of them were titular sheiks,  owned more than 90% of the land.  Since they had the deeds and the land was registered as their property, the Arabs cannot possibly be squatters, the Jews are the thieves and squatters, as the record demonstrates.


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## teddyearp (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> teddyearp said:
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Yeah, notice he had to post it again in the reply.  Tell the lie enough times . . . .


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## docmauser1 (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Since the Palestinians have never stopped demanding that their land be returned, not even squatter's rights come into the picture for the Jews.  Oh dear.


Arab settlers, calling others settlers.


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Since the Palestinians have never stopped demanding that their land be returned, not even squatter's rights come into the picture for the Jews.  Oh dear.
> ...



As the Mandatory confirms, the Jews are the settlers (invaders), the Christian and Muslims have always been there whatever their religion was prior to conversion to their current religions:

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years.* Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


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## Phoenall (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...






 So the land is legally owned by the Jews and as such they can build on it. So were is the problem in this.


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## Phoenall (Oct 14, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
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 Did you address the poster by name ?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
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Cool! Show us the deeds! hehe


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## Coyote (Oct 14, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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You make no sense.  I made no response to your answer and you are answering a question presented to another member as if it were relevant to you.

It wasn't. 

Now is your confusion eased?


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## teddyearp (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> No, it is the 1946 Survey of Palestine a UN document available from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive, a Jewish site.  Why are you always lying?
> 
> *A Survey of Palestine Volume 1*
> Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946
> ...


Monti, none of those links gets me to the table you keep posting.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
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Gee, the Arabs "owned" land in Ottoman territory, wow, who woulda thunk that?

Now show us how that makes "Palestine" an Arab entity?  It doesn't, moron.  Actually Arabs didn't have much say in what happens to territory the Ottomans, their enemies, invaded and conquered, did they?

And why did Jews pay more taxes?  Could it be because the Moooooslems were intolerant apartheid like assholes towards the Jooooooos? Yup, that's it.  They charged the "dirty" Jooooos more taxes.   Maybe that's why the Arabs invaded, eh?  They squat on Ottoman land, and get to pay no taxes.  Ha ha ha.  Oh Gawd, you are too easy.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > No, it is the 1946 Survey of Palestine a UN document available from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive, a Jewish site.  Why are you always lying?
> ...



The table comes from an Arab propaganda bullshit site.  google "search this document" and it will take you straight to the POS site.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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"Stolen"?  The British decide what to do with territory they conquered from the Ottomans.  The Arabs have no say in land they don't control, moron.  The British could have given Palestine to Martians from Area 51 if they felt like it.  LOL


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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No, it is a Jewish site from which you can download the document in pdf. Nothing Arab about it. Quit lying. Everyone can see you are lying.

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
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The Arabs owned over 90% of the land as per below.  The Mandatory did not own the land.  The land was clearly stolen by the Jews.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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Ha ha ha.  You is funny.  Are you telling us that the Ottomans didn't own and control that territory?  What an ignorant, lying, shameless dipshit you are.


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## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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> > montelatici said:
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Land registration in the Ottoman did not even exist till the 19th century.  Land ownership was simply recorded as transfers as part of death records through the churches.  Though still incomplete and missing pages, many of the tapu, BMLRR, DLS in Amman and UNCCP records are now digital.  Locals arabs did not register land to avoid conscription or taxation.  Many that did register land lost title due to unpaid taxes.
Most of the early jews that bought land when the Ottoman permitted acquired land that was uncultivated and uninhabited.  There were limits on the amount of land any one could own.  Land sold by churches and land holders from arabs in Beirut, Damascus, Cairo, Amman and even Jerusalem sold to land companies on behalf of jews and not directly to private jewish individuals.


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## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
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no, just that it was not owned by "jews".  It does not by default mean all the land was privately owned by (palestinian) arabs.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
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Why can't you admit you got it from a bullshit Arab site?  The link you posted doesn't show the chart, however, interestingly, it contains articles like this.  What an ignoramus you are: 

http://www.bjpa.org/Publications/downloadFile.cfm?FileID=8737


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## Penelope (Oct 14, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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It never becomes the truth, people just believe the lie.


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## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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> > montelatici said:
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stomp your foot and whine like a toddler in a toy store "me, me , me, me, ......." , it is not going to make you right.


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## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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Bought not stolen.  Considering the jews often paid 8x the real value of the land , you could say it was the arab doing the stealing.


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
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Of  course it was stolen. Jews owned less than 10% and are now squatting on 100%


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## Penelope (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Is there a listing of all the purchases of land bought by the Zionist?


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## Penelope (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Provide proof and not from a Jewish source. If you can't do that then well the Jews have no right to any land without deeds.


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## AugmentedDog (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Right On!
I've been reading, with dismay, through this entire thread. All I have to say is this:
The ignorance of history is staggering and those few who consistently accuse Jews and the pro Israel folks of buying "the propaganda" are, themselves, drowning in kool-aid. 
Most of us who defend Israel are painfully aware of the failings of the current govt. leadership. I, myself, have never agreed with, or supported Likud, or Netenyahu. However, so many of the anti-Israel crowd are so concerned with appearing to be moralists and humanitarians that any semblance of intelligent interpretation of events and objectivity are non-existent.
You are the ones who have been consumed by propaganda. 
Open your damn eyes! There is more than enough unconscionable behavior to go around.
Also, all of you folk who are exclusively pro Palestinian, unless you are Palestinian, and even so, Learn Some History.


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## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You can apply in person to the agencies for access to their digital archives.  I know much as been scanned, but I expect there might still be a few inputs missing because of documents missing or too badly damaged.  Even digital it will be tedious search, especially if you don't have some basic details.  I do not know if the information is databased.  
It has to be a lot easier than sitting in a musty dungeon searching through ledgers and loose documents that made up the ottoman archives.  They were not all in one language.


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## Penelope (Oct 14, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



Well I guess I will have to go by what the British said in 1947 as they would know better than us, who should have what.


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## Hossfly (Oct 14, 2014)

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


Argued with your teachers in school did ye?


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

AugmentedDog said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
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You should learn some history.


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## AugmentedDog (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> AugmentedDog said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


This particular segment of history has been my life for 50 years. I also lived a small part of it. You?


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

AugmentedDog said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > AugmentedDog said:
> ...



Yes.  If you have lived a small part of it you should be able to discern that at one time Christians and Muslims and a very small number of Jews (a handful before 1850 as reported by the Britsh Mandatory) lived in the area which was called Palestine.  A large number of Europeans began arriving in the late 1800s.  By 1948 the Europeans  had expelled most of the non-Jews. That's just a fact.  No matter of excuses, reasons, justifications can change this basic fact.


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## AugmentedDog (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> AugmentedDog said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


No excuses. Facts are just fine. So,
I'm certain, then, that you are aware that prior to the time you reference, what you call "a small number of Jews" was a somewhat larger population living in areas later taken by Arabs forcing the indigenous Jewish population out and into other countries in the M.E.
Much of the so-called disputed areas were populated by Jews for the aforementioned 2 millennia before stronger Arab populations took over that land.
Property claims have been "exchanged" in that region practically forever. No one cultural/ethnic group owns exclusive moral rights to any of it.
Immediately after the formation of Israel, if the Arab nations would not have invaded, Israel would have been a tiny island home for the Jews in the new country as well as for the Arabs that still lived there on their own land. I knew and shared meals with Arab families in Israel who did not leave in 1948 when told to do so and who still own and live on their ancestral land in Jerusalem and elsewhere.
You, and others here, seem to me to be assigning blame for 70+ years of war and social upheaval exclusively on Israelis AND the world community of Jews. This is wholly unacceptable and an unconscionable manipulation of events and facts.


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## toastman (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> AugmentedDog said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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I just LOVE how you left out a massive event that occurred PRIOR to Palestinian getting expelled. Hahahaha the propaganda king strikes again


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## aris2chat (Oct 14, 2014)

AugmentedDog said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > AugmentedDog said:
> ...



Beirut, Damascus, Cairo and Alexandria were the havens for jews during that time.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> The land did not belong to the Arabs, it was Ottoman territory for 600 years, and after that fell under the control if the British. And majority of Israelis today are Jews who fled Muslim shitholes, or descendants of.  That is a fact, look it up.  Parroting Islamist propaganda out of Uranus won't make it true.
> 
> And oh, can you show us how "Europeans who started Zionism have moved back to Europe"' , Joe Blow?  Can't wait to see that one.



Imperial invaders don't get to dictate who the land belongs to.


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## Hossfly (Oct 14, 2014)

AugmentedDog said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > AugmentedDog said:
> ...





JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > The land did not belong to the Arabs, it was Ottoman territory for 600 years, and after that fell under the control if the British. And majority of Israelis today are Jews who fled Muslim shitholes, or descendants of.  That is a fact, look it up.  Parroting Islamist propaganda out of Uranus won't make it true.
> ...


Who does it belong to at this time?


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

AugmentedDog said:


> Immediately after the formation of Israel, if the Arab nations would not have invaded, Israel would have been a tiny island home for the Jews in the new country as well as for the Arabs that still lived there on their own land. I knew and shared meals with Arab families in Israel *who did not leave in 1948 when told to do so and who still own and live on their ancestral land in Jerusalem and elsewhere.*
> You, and others here, seem to me to be assigning blame for 70+ years of war and social upheaval exclusively on Israelis AND the world community of Jews. This is wholly unacceptable and an unconscionable manipulation of events and facts.



x2!


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > The land did not belong to the Arabs, it was Ottoman territory for 600 years, and after that fell under the control if the British. And majority of Israelis today are Jews who fled Muslim shitholes, or descendants of.  That is a fact, look it up.  Parroting Islamist propaganda out of Uranus won't make it true.
> ...



Ah really, very interesting so the Arab invaders who Jihaded across the Middle East and shoved Islam down people's throats should give those lands back. 

Islam = Arab imperialism.  True story


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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I would think that with people speaking English in Australia, in the Americas and elsewhere and people speaking Spanish in the Americas Arab imperialism is quite bland comparatively.  Heck, it got stopped cold by the Turks, the Spanish and the Normans (Sicily).


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 15, 2014)

AugmentedDog said:


> This particular segment of history has been my life for 50 years. I also lived a small part of it. You?



I will turn 60 in several weeks, and so I am old enough to have watched the events leading up to the six day war, which I did every day on the news. I heard all the Nasser talk about pushing the Jews to the sea,  saw the ships blockading the straits of Tiran, and kept up with the events as the leaders of three Arab Supremacist states positioned thousands of troops in preparation for the invasion.

To listen to some of these antisemitic children, though, and you would think a whole different history somehow existed. They wouldn't be born for decades after, but goodness can they ever rattle off all the propaganda they read at their hate sites!

As far as I'm concerned, this rabid pro-Palestinianism is little more than a cult. It is a huge cult, mind you, and is extremely well financed, but it operates on the same principles where mindless obedience is all that is required of the devotees, and absolute group think prevails.It is impossible to ever get through to these hateful children since it is their hatred that binds them so tightly and their hatred of Jews is the crutch they use to avoid any sort of honest look at their own shortcomings.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> AugmentedDog said:
> 
> 
> > This particular segment of history has been my life for 50 years. I also lived a small part of it. You?
> ...



I know your type, and I bet you watched the coup in Chile unfolding and were sure that it was the Chilean people wanting to overthrow a cruel dictator (no matter that he was elected democratically) and replace him with a freedom loving Pinochet.  You probably also believed that it was a spontaneous coup and the U.S. was not involved.  LOL


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## toastman (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Personal attacks is all you got Monti. Pathetic


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## AugmentedDog (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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> > AugmentedDog said:
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Really??
As opposed to your type who, lacking anything of substance to respond with, resorts to unwarranted and unsubstantiated character assignations and churlish retort?
You lose your bet.
You don't know me and you happen to be entirely wrong in your characterization of me. 
I'll leave it there as I have no need to defend myself against such empty and ineffectual  offensive as you have launched.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



The only time Arab Imperialism gets stopped is when Islamism is stopped.  Even countries that are not Arab by race or ethnicity are in fact practicing a religion and culture forced upon them by  Arabs Islamists.  

Islam is not only a religion, it is a cult with a political component which dictates how people should live, or else.  In the process it destroys the national identity, history and culture of the nation it infects. Such is the story with Iran and Egypt for example. With Arab / Muslim countries, it is all about being an ARAB or a MUSLIM rather than being nationalistic.  

You will never see a Muslim cleric preaching nationalism or pride in their country's history, as you see in other faiths. Islam minimizes and supersedes all.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > AugmentedDog said:
> ...



As opposed to your type, the terrorist ass kisser liar extraordinaire for IslamoFacism.  You've seen one of your types you've seen them all. The streets of Pakistan and all backwards ass Islamic shitholes are littered with delusional ignorant morons like you.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Call down little wanker, or seek help.


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## Coyote (Oct 15, 2014)

*Let's get back to something remotely related to the topic guys...remember, Flame Zone is available for personal discussions and we offer free accommodations.*


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## JoeB131 (Oct 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Ah really, very interesting so the Arab invaders who Jihaded across the Middle East and shoved Islam down people's throats should give those lands back.
> 
> Islam = Arab imperialism.  True story



You need to read some history.  The regions that the Muslims took from the Byzantines welcomed them with open arms, because the Byzantines were kind of dicks.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

It's impossible to reason with fanatics.  They deny the historical record and only believe Zionist propaganda.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
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> ...



Ha ha ha.  "Muslim conquerering Jihadists were welcomed"  Thanks for the entertainment.  Perhaps it is you that should read some Muslim history.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> It's impossible to reason with fanatics.  They deny the historical record and only believe Zionist propaganda.



Yeah and we all know that Muslims aren't fanatical at all, nor do they "spread false propaganda". No, no, not at all.

 I'm wondering which alternate universe you live in.


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## toastman (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > It's impossible to reason with fanatics.  They deny the historical record and only believe Zionist propaganda.
> ...


Isn't it funny when Monti accuse others of literally exactly what he is guilty of


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Mohomod Latici is an expert at Nazi Turnspeak.  Accusing others of exactly what they themselves are guilty of.  I love it when they start calling the Jews "Nazis"...while forgetting that it was the Palestinians who had a love affair with Hitler, and still do.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Ha ha ha.  "Muslim conquerering Jihadists were welcomed"  Thanks for the entertainment.  Perhaps it is you that should read some Muslim history.



I have a degree in history.  

There was a reason why they overran the Sassinid and Byzantine Empires in less than a century.


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## aris2chat (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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> > [
> ...



An AA from SBU Tehran?
Do you think you are the only poster on this forum with higher education?


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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Others don't present fact.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Yeah you're the only that does. 

Insanity, another common denominator among Pali terrorist lovers.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
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Asshole, Arabs invaded and shoved Islam down the throats of Persian / Iranian people. It was not a "welcome" process, and even Pope Benedict caused Muslim animals to burn down half of Europe when he alluded to the Persian Emperor's comments at the time about Arab behavior and what islam represents.  

Go get your money back from those who claim they educated you.  Ha ha ha.

Islam spread through violence. True story dude


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Degree in  history from the Taliban Madrassa. I bet he was honor student at the Mad-r-ASSa.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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Mohomod: "How have most religions spread?  Ever considered that?"

Your friend Joe Blow was telling us that how Islam was welcomed all over the world.  Why don't you let Mr. History Major  answer that one himself? 

"How Iran welcomed the Arab Islamic invasion with open arms" Ha ha ha.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
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Degree from the University of Stupidity at Karachi?  LOL, here is some REAL HISTORY,  as a favor, just so you don't embarrass yourself the next time.  Here is your "welcome party":

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion Alien in Their Homeland CAIS 
*
IRANIAN HISTORY: POST-SASANIAN*

*The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion;* *Alien in Their Homeland*

The history of Zoroastrians of Iran after the Arab conquest can be summarized in three words: oppression, misery and massacre.

The Arabs invaded Persia not only for its reputed wealth, but to bring into the faith new converts and to impose Islam as the new state religion. They were religious zealots who believed that “in a religious war if one kills or is killed, one’s place in heaven is secure”. To impose the new religion, the old culture and creed had to be destroyed. Therefore first they targeted the libraries, universities and schools. Only few examples reflect the enormity of the calamity that befell upon Persia at 630 A.D. Although some events and figures appear legendary, nevertheless are considered to be true, as they have been recorded by many historians of the Islamic era.


When the Arab commander (Saad ibn-e Abi Vaghas) faced the huge library of Cteciphon, he wrote to Omar: what should be done about the books. Omar wrote back “If the books contradict the Koran, they are blasphemous and on the other hand if they are in agreement with the text of Koran, then they are not needed, as for us only Koran is sufficient”. Thus, the huge library was destroyed and the books or the product of the generations of Persian scientists and scholars were burned in fire or thrown into the Euphrates.[1] By the order of another Arab ruler (Ghotaibeh ibn-e Moslem) in Khwarezmia, those who were literate with all the historians, writers and Mobeds were massacred and their books burned so that after one generation the people were illiterate.[2] Other libraries in Ray and Khorassan received the same treatment and the famous international University of Gondishapour declined and eventually abandoned, and its library and books vanished. Ibn-e Khaldoun, the famous Islamic historian summarizes the whole anihilation and conflagration:” where is the Persian science that Omar ordered to be destroyed?” Only few books survived, because the Persian scholars translated them into Arabic.

To conquer Persia and force Islam, the Arab invaders resorted to many inhumane actions including massacre, mass enslavement of men, women and children, and imposition of heavy taxes (Jezyeh=Jizya) on those who did not convert. By the order of “Yazid ibn-e Mohalleb” in Gorgan so many Persians were beheaded that their blood mixed with water would energize the millstone to produce as much as one day meal for him, as he had vowed.[3] The event of blood mill has been quoted by the generations of Iranian Zoroastrian families to this day, yet our books of history have been silent about it. In recent years however, disenchanted Iranian scholars have been writing about the blood mills and in fact this event has been reported by our historians of the Islamic era. On the way to Mazandaran the same commander ordered 12,000 captives to be hanged at the two sides of the road so that the victorious Arab army pass through. Upon arrival, many more were massacred in that province and heavy tax (Jizya) was imposed on the survivors who did not convert. Some historians have estimated that a total of 400,000 civilians were massacred.[4]Even though the figure appears inflated, nevertheless it reflects the extent of atrocities committed by the Arab conquerors. After the battle of Alis, the Arab commander (Khalid ibn-e Valid) ordered all the prisoners of war be decapitated so that a creek of blood flows. When the city of Estakhr in the south put up stiff resistance against the Arab invaders, 40,000 residents were slaughtered or hanged.[5] One of the battles by the Arabs has been named, Jelovla (covered), because an estimated 100,000 bodies of the slain Iranian soldiers covered the desert.[6] It is reported that 130,000 Iranian women and children were enslaved and sold in the Mecca and Medina markets and large amount of gold and silver plundered. One respected Iranian scholar recently wrote, “Why so many had to die or suffer? Because one side was determined to impose his religion upon the other who could not understand ”.[7] The Arabs colonized, exploited and despised the population. In this context they called the Persians “Ajam” or mute. They even named the Iranian converts “Mavali” or “liberated slaves”. According to the Arab classification, this caste could not receive wages or booties of the war; they were to be protected and at times rewarded by their protectors. Mavalis were not allowed to ride horses and sometimes they were given away as gifts. One of the Umayyad Caliphs was quoted “milk the Persians and once their milk dries, suck their blood”.[8] With so much atrocities committed in the name of religion, how much truly the Arab invaders knew about Islam? By the order of Omar 1000 warriors who knew one Ayah of the Koran were to be selected to receive the booties of the war. But the problem was that among the Arab army there were not even 1,000 soldiers who could read one Ayah.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Can't you ever post anything that is not from a biased source? 

"*Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996*

*and the World Zoroastrian congress in Houston 2000-2001"
*
Even if entirely accurate, which I doubt, it can't be taken seriously.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Degree in  history from the Taliban Madrassa. I bet he was honor student at the Mad-r-ASSa.



Just because you Zionists pissed the Muslims off doesn't make it MY Problem.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> *
> IRANIAN HISTORY: POST-SASANIAN*
> 
> ...



So it sounds to me that no one was all that keen to fight that hard for Ahura-Mazda. Throw him on the pile of "Rejected Sky Pixies!" 

I did get to know a Zoroastrian once.  Nice guy, as far as that goes.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Mohomod: "How have most religions spread?  Ever considered that?"
> 
> Your friend Joe Blow was telling us that how Islam was welcomed all over the world.  Why don't you let Mr. History Major  answer that one himself?
> 
> "How Iran welcomed the Arab Islamic invasion with open arms" Ha ha ha.



Okay, I guess if you want to go to the old religion that has about 10,000 members left today, because it was kind of a silly religion... you could. 

Let's look at an unbiased source. 

Zoroastrians were made to pay an extra tax called Jizya, failing which they were either killed, enslaved or imprisoned. Those paying Jizya were subjected to insults and humiliation by the tax collectors.[61][62][63] *Zoroastrians who were captured as slaves in wars were given their freedom if they converted to Islam*.[61][64]

*Muslim leaders in their effort to win converts encouraged attendance at Muslim prayer with promises of money and allowed the Quran to be recited in Persian instead of Arabic so that it would be intelligible to all.*[65] Islam was readily accepted by Zoroastrians who were employed in industrial and artisan positions because, *according to Zoroastrian dogma, such occupations that involved defiling fire made them impure.[65]* Moreover, Muslim missionaries did not encounter difficulty in explaining Islamic tenets to Zoroastrians, as there were many similarities between the faiths. According to Thomas Walker Arnold, for the Persian, he would meet Ahura Mazda and Ahriman under the names of Allah and Iblis.[65] In Afghanistan, Islam was spread due to Umayyad missionary efforts particularly under the reign of Hisham ibn Abd al-Malik and Umar ibn AbdulAziz.[65]

There were also large and thriving Christian and Jewish communities, along with smaller numbers of Buddhists and other groups. However, there was a slow but steady movement of the population towards Islam. The nobility and city-dwellers were the first to convert. Islam spread more slowly among the peasantry and the _dihqans_, or landed gentry. By the late 10th century, the majority of the Persians had become Muslim. Until the 15th century, most Persian Muslims were Sunni Muslims[_citation needed_], though today Iran is known as a stronghold of the Shi'a Muslim faith, recognizing Islam as their religion and the prophet's son in law, Ali as an enduring symbol of justice.[_citation needed_]

According to Amoretti in Cambridge History of Islam, the conquestors brought with them a new religion and a new language, but they did not use force to spread it. *While giving freedom of choice, however, the conquestors designated privileges for those who converted*.[66]

Sounds a lot better than Christian actions like the Spanish Inquisition and the Albigensian Crusade.  

The latter was famous for the Papal Legate how said when asked how to tell a Christian from a Heretic, "Kill them all, for God will know his own."  (Sometimes repeated as, "Kill them all and Let God sort them out.")


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Can't you ever post anything that is not from a biased source?
> 
> "*Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996*
> 
> ...



It can't?  Why not, because a terrorist loving Islamist says so?  Many Persians consider themselves Zoorastrians, you fucking moron, and many Zoorastrian traditions such as the Persian New Year are still celebrated as a national celebrations, despite the efforts by the Islamist animals in charge.  Look it up.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Mohomod: "How have most religions spread?  Ever considered that?"
> ...



Ha ha ha you are even more fulla shit than Mohomod latici.  The Islamist takeover of Iran was anything but peaceful and welcoming.  What frauds you are.  I don't think you even have a degree in toilet cleaning. LOL

READ AGAIN!

* On the way to Mazandaran the same commander ordered 12,000 captives to be hanged at the two sides of the road so that the victorious Arab army pass through. Upon arrival, many more were massacred in that province and heavy tax (Jizya) was imposed on the survivors who did not convert. Some historians have estimated that a total of 400,000 civilians were massacred.[4]Even though the figure appears inflated, nevertheless it reflects the extent of atrocities committed by the Arab conquerors. After the battle of Alis, the Arab commander (Khalid ibn-e Valid) ordered all the prisoners of war be decapitated so that a creek of blood flows. When the city of Estakhr in the south put up stiff resistance against the Arab invaders, 40,000 residents were slaughtered or hanged.[5] One of the battles by the Arabs has been named, Jelovla (covered), because an estimated 100,000 bodies of the slain Iranian soldiers covered the desert.[6] It is reported that 130,000 Iranian women and children were enslaved and sold in the Mecca and Medina markets and large amount of gold and silver plundered. One respected Iranian scholar recently wrote, “Why so many had to die or suffer? Because one side was determined to impose his religion upon the other who could not understand ”.[7] The Arabs colonized, exploited and despised the population. In this context they called the Persians “Ajam” or mute.*


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Then fuck off this forum and stop posting IslamoNazi lies and crap.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> It can't?  Why not, because a terrorist loving Islamist says so?  Many Persians consider themselves Zoorastrians, you fucking moron, and many Zoorastrian traditions such as the Persian New Year are still celebrated as a national celebrations, despite the efforts by the Islamist animals in charge.  Look it up.




Demographics of Iran - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Muslims74,682,93899.4Christians117,7040.2Zoroastrians25,2710.0
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]
Yup.  Those Zoroasterians they are just sweeping the nation.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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As opposed to ZionNazi lies and crap?  

You don't get it.  I think ANY belief in a magic fairy in the sky makes you kind of stupid.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Ha ha ha you are even more fulla shit than Mohomod latici. The Islamist takeover of Iran was anything but peaceful and welcoming. What frauds you are. I don't think you even have a degree in toilet cleaning. LOL



Again, peaceful compared to WHAT? 

CHristians slaughtered a lot more people than that fighting over whether Jesus was made of Wafers or not, right after they went to the New World and Genocided the shit out of the Americas. "Happy Columbus Day".


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Here's what Peace Loving CHristians did just taking ONE FUCKING CITY. 

Massacre at B ziers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

While discussions were still going on with the barons about the release of those in the city who were deemed to be Catholics, the servants and other persons of low rank and unarmed attacked the city without waiting for orders from their leaders. To our amazement, crying "to arms, to arms!", within the space of two or three hours they crossed the ditches and the walls and Béziers was taken. Our men spared no one, irrespective of rank, _*sex or age, and put to the sword almost 20,000 people*_. After this great slaughter the whole city was despoiled and burnt...[4]

About twenty years later Caesarius of Heisterbach relates this story about the massacre,

When they discovered, from the admissions of some of them, that there were Catholics mingled with the heretics they said to the abbot “Sir, what shall we do, for we cannot distinguish between the faithful and the heretics.” The abbot, like the others, was afraid that many, in fear of death, would pretend to be Catholics, and after their departure, would return to their heresy, and is said to have replied “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius - *Kill them all for the Lord knoweth them that are His”* (2 Tim. ii. 19) and so countless number in that town were slain.[5][6]​


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
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Yeah, that's what Arabs do, they are like locusts.  Can you imagine, Iran was an entirely Zoorastrian nation not too long ago? Arab Islamic History: Invade a country, then transform it into yet another Islamic Shariah shithole of intolerance and violence.  Almost every Muslim shithole you see today, this same exact thing happened.  So much for "Muslim tolerance of other faiths".  Ha ha ha. 

Yet, despite all of this.  Iranians have still managed to hold on to their identity and Zoorastrian based traditions.  Kudos to the Iranians for not allowing Arab savages change their cultural identity.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's what Peace Loving CHristians did just taking ONE FUCKING CITY.
> 
> Massacre at B ziers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...



Irrelevant crap.  FYI the Crusades started because Muslim invaders were taking over Europe and something had to be done.  Muslims drew first blood and started invading Christian lands.  True story dude.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



But you are promoting crap on behalf of those who think a Saudi Arabian illiterate terrorist theif was "God's final messenger" eh.  I mean you are here like one of their foot soldiers. And failing.  LOL


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Yeah, that's what Arabs do, they are like locusts.  Can you imagine, Iran was an entirely Zoorastrian nation not too long ago? Arab Islamic History: Invade a country, then transform it into yet another Islamic Shariah shithole of intolerance and violence.  Almost every Muslim shithole you see today, this same exact thing happened.  So much for "Muslim tolerance of other faiths".  Ha ha ha.



And what happened to the worshipers of Odin, Jupiter, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Pachacamac, or dozens of other Gods who ran afoul of Naked dude on a stick?  





Roudy said:


> [
> Yet, despite all of this.  Iranians have still managed to hold on to their identity and Zoorastrian based traditions.  Kudos to the Iranians for not allowing Arab savages change their cultural identity.



Christians hold on to a lot of PAGAN ideas.  The names of our weekdays are all pagan Gods.  Christmas was a Mithra holiday. 

But we don't spend a lot of time worshiping Jupiter or Thor...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Irrelevant crap.  FYI the Crusades started because Muslim invaders were taking over Europe and something had to be done.  Muslims drew first blood and started invading Christian lands.  True story dude.



The Albigisian crusade was not against "Muslims".  It was against the Cathars, a sect of Christianity that mixed Christianity, Gnosticism, and... wait for it... Zoroastrianism

Unlike the Zoroastrians, Mandeans, Samaritans and Yazidis- all odd sects that sprung from Abrahamic religions and still thrive in the Islamic World, the Christians wiped out the Cathars so completely that not much is known about their beliefs today.  Not a one is left alive.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> But you are promoting crap on behalf of those who think a Saudi Arabian illiterate terrorist theif was "God's final messenger" eh.  I mean you are here like one of their foot soldiers. And failing.  LOL



Well, we can be reasonably sure Mohammed actually existed.  

Unlike Jesus, Zarathustra, and Moses, who might well have been made up. 

But none of these guys were "God's Messenger" because - THERE IS NO GOD!!!!


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
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Yeah so?  And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China.  You stated that "Islam was welcomed in Iran" and it wasn't.  Arabs were infamous for their brutality and savagery, that's why many nations capitulated before they invaded, they were afraid of the savages.  If you want to see how Muslim animals behaved back then, look at ISIS they are a photocopy of Islam.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > But you are promoting crap on behalf of those who think a Saudi Arabian illiterate terrorist theif was "God's final messenger" eh.  I mean you are here like one of their foot soldiers. And failing.  LOL
> ...



Yes, Mohamads savagery and barbarism as well as his followers is well documented.  Carry on.  Bash Judaism and Christianity, but not Islam. 
Your true colors are showing.  I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of these Muslims who claims they are no longer Muslim, while still holding on to backwards ass medieval Islamic stupidity and barbarism.  There's plenty of those out there too, you know.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Yeah so?  And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China.  You stated that "Islam was welcomed in Iran" and it wasn't.  Arabs were infamous for their brutality and savagery, that's why many nations capitulated before they invaded, they were afraid of the savages.  If you want to see how Muslim animals behaved back then, look at ISIS they are a photocopy of Islam.



Point of the matter is- 1400 years after the conquest of Persia by the Muslims, there are STILL people who are Zoroasterians if they want to be. And across the rest of the Islamic world, people can still be Yazidis (People who think that Satan is still an Angel). Or Mandeans (people who think that that John the Baptist was the Messiah) or Samaritans (people who think that God didn't bless the House of David.) Mind you, not many, because when you worship an imaginary sky pixie, you usually want to go with a winning imaginary sky pixie. 

Meanwhile, CHristians completely exterminated the Cathars to the last man, woman and child. 

As well as worshipers of the Norse, Greek, Celtic, Aztec and Inca Gods, along with a lot of other tribal dieties too numerous to mention.  That's when they weren't killing off Jesus worshipers who didn't worship Jesus the right way like the Monophysites and the Arians-  Sects heavily oppressed by the Byzantines  in Egypt and North Africa before the Muslims kicked them out.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> Yes, Mohamads savagery and barbarism as well as his followers is well documented.  Carry on.  Bash Judaism and Christianity, but not Islam.
> Your true colors are showing.  I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of these Muslims who claims they are no longer Muslim, while still holding on to backwards ass medieval Islamic stupidity and barbarism.  There's plenty of those out there too, you know.



No, guy. I grew up Catholic.  And if you really want to know how to get a kid to HATE religion, just put his ass in Catholic school for 12 years.  

The thing is, we only have a "problem" with Muslims because we keep going into their part of the world and fucking with them.  the same problem aliens from Alpha Centauri would hvae with Americans if they invaded New York and fucked with us.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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As a representative of the Jews, you do them no favors. LOL


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## JoeB131 (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> [QUO
> 
> As a representative of the Jews, you do them no favors. LOL



A lot of Jews I know are Mortified by the Zionists. 

Zionism is like Crazy Uncle Moshe who screams about Hitler to your _Goyim_ friends at your bat-Mitzvah. 

"Uncle Moshe, you're embarrassing meeeeee!"


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
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As representative of Islamists, you act and talk just like those assholes.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> montelatici said:
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Yeah sure.  Typical anti semetic response.  I know a lot of Jews blah blah blah.  Shove it up your Mohamad.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
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Well that explains it.  Catholic replacement theologist neo Nazi.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
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Ahh, when desperate use the old anti semitism accusation with the usual personal insult. Well done.  You just don't realize what a fool you are making of yourself, do you.


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## toastman (Oct 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > [QUO
> ...




Ah yes. The obligatory "I know many Jews !" comment.


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## toastman (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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There you go again, accusing others of what you are guilty of ....


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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> > Roudy said:
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I have never accused anyone of antisemitism what are you talking about?


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

toastman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Yeah, I know many Christians and Muslims too, and they would all be so embarrassed by Mohomod Latici, they would be devastated.  LOL


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## toastman (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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That's not what I meant. 

nvmd...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > No, guy. I grew up Catholic.  And if you really want to know how to get a kid to HATE religion, just put his ass in Catholic school for 12 years.
> ...



Well, yeah, imagine my shock when I got to college and found out that Pope Pius XII was so in bed with the Nazis that there wasn't room for the Altar Boy he was sodomizing.  

My reason for hating Zionists is that they've become the Nazis.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I always find their claims of "antisemitism" rather amusing, because the Arabs are a Semitic people as well as the Jews.  

You become an antisemite if you support the claims of one Semitic people over another?  Doesn't that make everyone involved in this argument an "anti-semite?


----------



## Roudy (Oct 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



It's actually exactly the opposite. The closest to the Nazis are today's Muslims who openly show intolerance and kill in the name of their warped ideology.

Hitler s Mufti Catholic Answers


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## Roudy (Oct 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Well there goes your education money down the toilet again.  Even though Arabs are Semetic, anti Semetism refers distinctly to hatred of Jews. You get an F.


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## Indofred (Oct 17, 2014)

R.D. said:


> The narrator states Jews form half the population of Jerusalem



But only 5% of the total population of Palestine.... and they used Arabic as an everyday language.


----------



## Indofred (Oct 17, 2014)

Apart from the fact this totally fist fucks the Israeli Zionist idiots' lies, it's also a very interesting piece of history.
One the Zionist bastards will want to destroy.


----------



## Indofred (Oct 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



 Roudy, totally fucked at this clear evidence proving he's a lair, tries smug comments.
Waste of time, bub, the Zionist lies are fucked.


----------



## DriftingSand (Oct 17, 2014)

Rikurzhen said:


> What was the population breakdown in 5 AD?



Some men of Judah. Some men of Benjamin. Some folks of Edom. Some people of Babylon. Some Romans (European nation).


----------



## Indofred (Oct 17, 2014)




----------



## montelatici (Oct 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Not really.  Muslims do not have a racial/ethnic superiority component as the Nazis had and the Zionists have.  There are far more non-Arab Muslims than Arab Muslims, for example.


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## Roudy (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Yeah sure, that's why they force religious minorities to live under their barbaric Shariah law as second class citizens in apartheid like conditions, which they oppress and kill from time to time.


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## aris2chat (Oct 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



They barely exist, they are not thriving.  If they submit, pay the tax and don't advertize or proselytize their faith, good muslims will leave them alone.  When passions are raised over "what ever", those groups become scapegoats and that tolerance turns to persecution.
Those non-muslims walked a tightrope in the muslim world.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2014)

Indofred said:


> But only 5% of the total population of Palestine.... and they used Arabic as an everyday language.


And?


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Apart from the fact this totally fist fucks the Israeli Zionist idiots' lies, it's also a very interesting piece of history. One the Zionist bastards will want to destroy.





Indofred said:


> Roudy, totally fucked at this clear evidence proving he's a lair, tries smug comments. Waste of time, bub, the Zionist lies are fucked.


Drivel.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> There are far more non-Arab Muslims than Arab Muslims, for example.


Yeah, ages and ages of forced conversions to islam can do wonders, can't they?


----------



## toastman (Oct 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Riiggght. Keep telling yourself that. 

Do you check for Zionists under your bed at night?


----------



## Roudy (Oct 17, 2014)

toastman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Ssshhhhh...don't tell him about the closet.  LOL


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [Q
> 
> Well there goes your education money down the toilet again.  Even though Arabs are Semetic, anti Semetism refers distinctly to hatred of Jews. You get an F.



Just because that's how YOU use the word doesn't mean that's what it means.  

If the "Semites" all want to murder each other over who their magic Sky Fairy gave a strip of desert to, that's fine with me.  Just don't pick my pocket to pay for it.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2014)

Did Hossy have something to say, or did he get confused?


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## Hossfly (Oct 17, 2014)

For JoeB131

Merriam-Webster Dictionary



*an·ti–Sem·i·tism*
_noun_ \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\
: hatred of Jewish people

*Full Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM*
*:*  hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
— *an·ti–Se·mit·ic* _adjective_
— *an·ti–Sem·ite* _noun_



 See anti–Semitism defined for English-language learners »
*First Known Use of ANTI-SEMITISM*
1882


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## JoeB131 (Oct 17, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> For JoeB131
> 
> Merriam-Webster Dictionary
> 
> ...



So what's your point.  

Semitic people - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

In linguistics and ethnology, *Semitic* (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎) was first used to refer to a language family of West Asian origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Ahlamu, Akkadian, Amharic, Ammonite, Amorite, Arabic, Aramaic/Syriac, Canaanite (Phoenician/Carthaginian/Hebrew), Chaldean, Eblaite, Edomite, Ge'ez, Old South Arabian, Modern South Arabian, Maltese, Mandaic, Moabite, Sutean, Tigre and Tigrinya, and Ugaritic, among others.

As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution.[1] Today, the word "Semite" may be used to refer to any member of any of a number of peoples of ancient Southwestern Asia descent including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews (Jews), Arabs, and their descendants.[2]

SO a bunch of Semites fight over who an Imaginary Pixie in the Sky gave strip of desert to, and we are all "anti-Semites" if we think one group of Semites- the ones who've lived there for thousands of years - have a better claim than some interlopers from Europe?


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## Hossfly (Oct 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Did Hossy have something to say, or did he get confused?


No dearie. Sometimes when you hit Reply it doesn't transfer your post.


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## montelatici (Oct 17, 2014)

If you dislike Semites that happen to be of the Jewish religion, you are an Anti-Semite.

If you dislike Semites that are Christians or Muslims, you are a patriot, like Hoss.

Get with the program Joeb.


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## Hossfly (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> If you dislike Semites that happen to be of the Jewish religion, you are an Anti-Semite.
> 
> If you dislike Semites that are Christians or Muslims, you are a patriot, like Hoss.
> 
> Get with the program Joeb.


*Semite*
_noun_ _(Concise Encyclopedia)_
Person speaking one of a group of related languages, presumably derived from a common language, Semitic (_see_Semitic languages). The term came to include Arabs, Akkadians, Canaanites, some Ethiopians, and Aramaean tribes including Hebrews. Semitic tribes migrated from the Arabian Peninsula, beginning _c._ 2500 BC, to the Mediterranean coast,Mesopotamia, and the Nile River delta. In Phoenicia, they became seafarers. In Mesopotamia, they blended with the civilization of Sumer. The Hebrews settled at last with other Semites in Palestine.


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## Roudy (Oct 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > For JoeB131
> ...



So like I said, while Arabs are also considered Semites, the word ANTI SEMETISM, strictly means hatred of Jews.  Even a third grader would understand this simple concept. But not nitwit Joe Blow. Ha ha ha. 

  Go get your money back.


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## Roudy (Oct 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> If you dislike Semites that happen to be of the Jewish religion, you are an Anti-Semite.
> 
> If you dislike Semites that are Christians or Muslims, you are a patriot, like Hoss.
> 
> Get with the program Joeb.


And if you are an enemy-within, IslamoTerrorist ass kissing, false propagandist on Hamas payroll like you, Mohomod?


----------



## toastman (Oct 17, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Apart from the fact this totally fist fucks the Israeli Zionist idiots' lies, it's also a very interesting piece of history.
> One the Zionist bastards will want to destroy.




Blah blah blah Zionist lies blah blah. 

Your extreme Muslim hate has clouded your mind . You are a dime a dozen Jew/Israeli hating pig, like so many Muslims are. You must be proud of yourself


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## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> So like I said, while Arabs are also considered Semites, the word ANTI SEMETISM, strictly means hatred of Jews.  Even a third grader would understand this simple concept. But not nitwit Joe Blow. Ha ha ha.
> 
> Go get your money back.



So your an anti-semite if you are cheering for the wrong group of Semites in their fight over who an imaginary man in the sky gave a strip of desert to?  

It's fun to make up your own words and give them your own definition.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Ha ha ha. Still don't get it, do you?  Well there's nothing i can do to help this nincompoop. 

I don't think you even graduated from high school, truly.


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

Ruddy making observations with respect to the education of others.  Now, that's funny.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Ruddy making observations with respect to the education of others.  Now, that's funny.



Yeah it's funny. He doesn't understand that the definition of an anti Semite is a Jew hater like you.


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## Indofred (Oct 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Apart from the fact this totally fist fucks the Israeli Zionist idiots' lies, it's also a very interesting piece of history.
> ...



Not at all, but I can't stand pointless morons such as yourself.


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## Indofred (Oct 18, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> Drivel.



Some thick bastards only seem able to post single words, never managing to actually argue using valid points.
The videos PROVE there was a thriving Palestinian community, and Jews were able to prey in peace, well, until the Zionist pillocks came along and started their violent campaign to take the land.


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## Indofred (Oct 18, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > But only 5% of the total population of Palestine.... and they used Arabic as an everyday language.
> ...



There were very few Jews, it wasn't a Jewish homeland.
And/ what a daft twat.


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## Indofred (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Ruddy making observations with respect to the education of others.  Now, that's funny.
> ...



I rather enjoy the forum morons claiming anything against Israel's mass murder is anti Jewish.
One assumes from that, Jews enjoy mass murder.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2014)

Indofred said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Drivel.
> ...


Driiiivel.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2014)

Indofred said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill.
So, how did those major arab settlers&squatters get to be "indifenous"?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I rather enjoy the forum morons claiming anything against Israel's mass murder is anti Jewish. One assumes from that, Jews enjoy mass murder.


Drivel.


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## toastman (Oct 18, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



But anyone can see that the only people that enjoy mass murder and do it on a daily basis are Muslims.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





Indofred said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



But it's not Israelis that are mass murdering, it's Muslim animals like ISIS, Hamas and Al Queda, practicing true Islam all across the globe. Are you upset that Israel won't let the Hamas Koranimals slaughter all the Jews?  Good.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

Indofred said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Drivel.
> ...



Yeah, under Ottoman and British rule. Fast forward to when the JORDANIANS controlled West Bank and Jerusalem, and you will see the desecration of Jewish and Christian sites.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Ruddy making observations with respect to the education of others.  Now, that's funny.
> ...



No, I just don't buy that you get to make up definitions. 

Anti-Zionists is not anti-Semitic. A lot Jews have no use for Israel.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Nobody's making up definitions. Look up ANTI SEMITE in any dictionary (not Semite) and get back to us, dipstick. Isn't there like an adult night school in your neighborhood for trash like you to to get his middle school diploma?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Nobody's making up definitions. Look up ANTI SEMITE in any dictionary (not Semite) and get back to us, dipstick. Isn't there like an adult night school in your neighborhood for trash like you to to get his middle school diploma?



I did. It didn't limit it to anti-Jewish.  

Sorry, man.  YOu are totally barking up the wrong tree.  

People don't have Israel because they hate Jews, they just hate racist assholes oppressing brown people... you know.  Semites.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



First of all, "Semites" aren't necessarily brown people, there are also very light skin / hair / eyes as well, and in fact can pass as European, such as Greek, Spaniards, Italian, etc. very easily. 

Second of all, an "anti Zionist" is someone who is against the existence of a Jewish state, period.  Anti Zionism is the new anti Semitism, as Dr, Martin Luther King Jr. noted eloquently "when people speak of anti Zionism, they mean anti Semitism..."

We are not talking about someone who is critical or against Israeli govt. actions, or some if its officials, as there are plenty of critics, INCLUDING IN ISRAEL, since it is a democracy with free speech.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> First of all, "Semites" aren't necessarily brown people, there are also very light skin / hair / eyes as well, and in fact can pass as European, such as Greek, Spaniards, Italian, etc. very easily.
> 
> Second of all, an "anti Zionist" is someone who is against the existence of a Jewish state, period. Anti Zionism is the new anti Semitism, as Dr, Martin Luther King Jr. noted eloquently "when people speak of anti Zionism, they mean anti Semitism..."
> 
> We are not talking about someone who is critical or against Israeli govt. actions, or some if its officials, as there are plenty of critics, INCLUDING IN ISRAEL, since it is a democracy with free speech.



Really, are some of them saying, "Hey, maybe we need to pack up and go back to Europe?"  

Uh, no, in fact, they get really pissy when you do that.  



A group of young Israeli expats have unleashed controversy back home by encouraging others to join them in Berlin, touching on two of the most sensitive issues in Israel: the country’s high cost of living and Jews’ tortured history with Germany.

While Israelis have been angered after learning that food prices are much lower in Germany, they are also outraged that the youngsters’ form of protest has been to give up on the Zionist dream by leaving the Jewish state, and relocate to the birthplace of the Nazi Party to boot. It rankles many in a society that once considered emigration shamefully akin to treason, at a time when many Israelis want to stick together after a brutal summer war in Gaza underscored greater political and security woes in Israel.

The uproar began several weeks ago when a 25-year-old former Israeli army officer flaunted photos of his grocery receipts — including those of a popular chocolate pudding that sells in Germany for one-third the price in Israel — and boasted about the good life in the German capital.

Read more: Berlin exodus campaign sparks outrage in Israel | The Times of Israel Berlin exodus campaign sparks outrage in Israel The Times of Israel

But..but..but.. Hitler.


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## toastman (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > First of all, "Semites" aren't necessarily brown people, there are also very light skin / hair / eyes as well, and in fact can pass as European, such as Greek, Spaniards, Italian, etc. very easily.
> ...




You're a hateful moron.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2014)

Oooh, hit a sore spot, did I, that a lot of Young Israelis are wondering why the fuck they are living in a place surrounded by people who want to kill them and paying three times too much for the privilege?


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## Hossfly (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Oooh, hit a sore spot, did I, that a lot of Young Israelis are wondering why the fuck they are living in a place surrounded by people who want to kill them and paying three times too much for the privilege?


How do you know that, Infidel?


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## toastman (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Oooh, hit a sore spot, did I, that a lot of Young Israelis are wondering why the fuck they are living in a place surrounded by people who want to kill them and paying three times too much for the privilege?



Riiggghtt. I'm gonna lose so much sleep over it.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > First of all, "Semites" aren't necessarily brown people, there are also very light skin / hair / eyes as well, and in fact can pass as European, such as Greek, Spaniards, Italian, etc. very easily.
> ...



But but but so what. You have no point. Israeli expats are living all over the world including here in the US. 

That of course doesn't mean jackshit , especially when it comes to your inability to concede that you don't know the real meaning of anti Semite.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Oooh, hit a sore spot, did I, that a lot of Young Israelis are wondering why the fuck they are living in a place surrounded by people who want to kill them and paying three times too much for the privilege?
> ...



I think you lose sleep every night knowing that Zionism is the modern equivlent of the Crusader States.  

Eventually, people will stop doing it because it's stupid.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Aside from making up his own definitions and other assorted neo Nazi / Anti Semitic shit about Jews and Israel, I think he probably "hangs out" a lot at the local mosque. How do you think he got the name "Joe Blow"?


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Reeeeeally Joe Blow?  And what of your beloved Islamist  Jihadi gorillas?


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## toastman (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



One thing all you anti Zionists have in common, besides sheer stupidity, is you have a habit of making the most ridiculous comparisons.

I think you lose sleep every night knowing that some of your tax money goes to Israel hahahaha


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## toastman (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Joe doesn't believe in Islamic terrorism.


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## aris2chat (Oct 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Oooh, hit a sore spot, did I, that a lot of Young Israelis are wondering why the fuck they are living in a place surrounded by people who want to kill them and paying three times too much for the privilege?



They don't wonder, they know it is the homeland of their ancestors.  It was the home of their temple.


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Toast doesn't believe in Israeli terrorism.


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## Hossfly (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Ditto


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## toastman (Oct 18, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Oooh, hit a sore spot, did I, that a lot of Young Israelis are wondering why the fuck they are living in a place surrounded by people who want to kill them and paying three times too much for the privilege?
> ...



He's underestimating the patriotism of ISraelis


montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



What's the definition of terrorism ?


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

Of course you don't.  Killing Christians and Muslims is what you enjoy, athiest.


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## toastman (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Of course you don't.  Killing Christians and Muslims is what you enjoy, athiest.



Why must you put words in peoples mouths to fit your agenda??

You are the one who said Palestinians are supposed to kill settlers.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Of course you don't.  Killing Christians and Muslims is what you enjoy, athiest.



You have him mixed up with yourself and the Islamic savages you support.


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## Indofred (Oct 19, 2014)

toastman said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



That's only true if you ignore everything, except the bits you want to see.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Reeeeeally Joe Blow?  And what of your beloved Islamist  Jihadi gorillas?



What about them? 

I don't like them, but I don't think it's really smart to go to THEIR part of the world and fuck with them. 

Our Middle East Policy is sticking our hands in a hornet's nest and complaining about getting stung. 

Palestine is Arab land.  Has been for 1600 years.  It's fucking insane to go over there and try to put in a beachhead because Your Magic Sky Fairy Said So.  It was insane 1000 years ago when the Crusaders did it, it was insane now when the Zionists did it.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

toastman said:


> What's the definition of terrorism ?



That's a very good question. 

When Osama Bin Laden was blowing up Russians who were trying to teach Afghan Girls how to read, Ronald Reagan gave him Stinger Missles and guns and called him a "Freedom Fighter".  

When Osama Bin Laden started attacking American Embassies and Ships and Office buildings, we called him a "Terrorist". 

Same guy, doing the same thing for the same reason... he wanted foreigners out of his part of the world. 

"Terrorist' is a word I would love to see expunged from the language.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

toastman said:


> Joe doesn't believe in Islamic terrorism.



Nope, I don't, for the reasons stated above.  One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It would be best to expunge such pejoratives from the language and just call these folks what they are, irregular forces or guerrillas.  

Now, there are cases where you should take a side against them.  I have no problem with the fact we are hunting down Al Qaeda.  But let's also consider, Al Qaeda only exists because of our stupid policies.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Reeeeeally Joe Blow? And what of your beloved Islamist Jihadi gorillas?



Invetiably, they are going to win.  Why?  Same reason the Vietcong did.  Same reason the Afghans drove out first the British then the Russians and soon us. 

You see, Zionism might have seemed like a wonderful idea to Jews 70 years ago, when the ones who survived Hitler were just happy to have a place where they could go. 

But today, 70 years later, they are still fighting the Arabs, and you can go to Europe or America and no one is trying to kill you and you can get consumer goods at a reasonable price?  

Poll One-third of Israelis think about leaving - National Israel News Haaretz

_*Some 30 percent of Israelis would seriously consider leaving if they could, according to a poll commissioned by Israel's Channel 2, Israeli website Globes reported Sunday. 

While the majority – 56 percent - responded that they would not leave Israeli even if they had the opportunity to do so, emigration is no longer the stigma in Israel it once was. Only 36 percent of respondents said they had a negative view of emigrants, according to Globes. The remainder was either neutral about emigration or even viewed it positively. 

"I came to the conclusion that I simply couldn't take it anymore," explained Elad, who moved to Munich, Globes reported. "I can't explain it, but in Israel there's a feeling… I wouldn't say that there's no future, but that there's pressure, severe pressure all the time, wherever it comes from - rockets, taxes, the atmosphere in the streets, the overdraft at the bank. One day I just said to myself that I'd like something else."*_


Not going to get better for you guys.


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## Hossfly (Oct 19, 2014)

Indofred said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


The bits I want to see is the translation of your signature line into English. Do you mind if I post it?


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## aris2chat (Oct 19, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



>>Israel is like sex with a pig; No reasonable people want it<<


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Joe Blow, you ignorant buffoon, when you go back to school, they will show you that Palestine has been Ottoman land for the last 700 years and the Ottomans called the area Southern Syria.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Reeeeeally Joe Blow? And what of your beloved Islamist Jihadi gorillas?
> ...



Lots of Jews from all over the world moving to Israel as well, keep up, Joe Blow. 

Despite Mideast Turmoil More French Jews Are Moving To Israel Parallels NPR

*Despite Mideast Turmoil, More French Jews Are Moving To Israel*





i
A restaurant in Sarcelles, a northern Paris suburb, is damaged after a July 20 rally against Israel's Gaza offensive descended into violence.

Miguel Medina/AFP/Getty Images
Jews are leaving France and moving to Israel in unprecedented numbers this year.

With the departures expected to surpass 5,000, France could pull ahead of the U.S. for Jewish emigration to Israel, known as _aliya_. Usually, making _aliya_ is a cause for celebration. But in France this year, it's tinged with bitterness.

The country, which has Western Europe's largest Muslim and Jewish populations, is experiencing repercussions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In Paris, pro-Palestinian demonstrations have turned violent, as some demonstrators attacked a synagogue and clashed with riot police.

But even before the latest Mideast flare-up, French Jews say there's been a rise in anti-Semitism in France and across Europe.

Four people were gunned down outside the Jewish museum in neighboring Belgium in May, and three Jewish schoolchildren and a teacher were killed in the southern city of Toulouse in 2012. Both attacks were carried out by young Frenchmen of North African descent, who recently had returned from fighting alongside extremists in places like Syria.

The combination of this violence and the stagnant French economy is fueling the emigration. So far this year, more than 2,000 French Jews have left, up from 580 during the same period last year.

Earlier this month, a Paris synagogue overflowed during a goodbye ceremony for the latest group of Jews to move to Israel.

Among them are Steven Taieb and Meyer Zouari. Both are leaving their families to move to Israel this summer. Armed with computer science degrees, they hope to find good jobs.

Though both young men claim they've always wanted to move to the Holy Land to fully live their faith, they say the recent climate precipitated their departure. Zoauri's father David believes his son made the right decision.

"France is no longer the beautiful country it was," he said. "It's being invaded. Its secularism is being compromised. All you see are women wearing veils in the streets, and mosques are sprouting up everywhere."

France, Zoauri says, is turning into a Muslim country.

Both of the young Jewish men say they grew up in the Paris suburbs, in mixed communities where Jews, Muslims and Christians co-existed.

Taieb said his family never had any problems: "We all said hello to each other and respected each other."

But Zouari had a different experience living amid his Muslim peers.

"I never knew if someone might try to do something to me just because I was Jewish," he said. "For example, I never felt comfortable wearing my skull cap outside. That would have been a provocation."

After singing a beautiful ballad about Jerusalem, the Paris congregation listened to France's head rabbi, who reminded them of their attachment to France, the first country to give Jews full rights as citizens in 1791. Aside from the tragic deportations during the World War II, France generally has been a haven for Jews. Since the that war, the French government has redoubled efforts to make Jewish families feel welcome.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Joe Blow, you ignorant buffoon, when you go back to school, they will show you that Palestine has been Ottoman land for the last 700 years and the Ottomans called the area Southern Syria.



Palestine is a corruption of "Philistine".  they've been there a lot longer than that. 

But here's your biggest problem.  The Arabs are having babies.  The Jews are having abortions and trying to move to Europe... 

Buh-bye Zionists.  Have a nice swim.


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## Hossfly (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Joe Blow, you ignorant buffoon, when you go back to school, they will show you that Palestine has been Ottoman land for the last 700 years and the Ottomans called the area Southern Syria.
> ...



*Pal·es·tine*
_geographical name_ \ˈpa-lə-ˌstīn\
*Definition of PALESTINE*
1
ancient region SW Asia bordering on E coast of the Mediterranean & extending E of Jordan River
2
region bordering on the Mediterranean on W & Dead Sea on E; a part of the Ottoman Empire 1516–1917, a British mandate 1923–48; now approx. coextensive with Israel and the West Bank
— *Pal·es·tin·ian* _adjective or noun_
*Variants of PALESTINE*
*Pal·es·tine* or Latin *Pal·aes·ti·na* 
*Rhymes with PALESTINE*
aerodyne, agate line, alkaline, androgyne, anodyne,anticline, Apennine, aquiline, argentine, asinine, auld lang syne, Aventine, Ballantyn...
[+]more
*Palestine*
_(Concise Encyclopedia)_
Region, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. It extends east to the Jordan River, north to the border between Israel and Lebanon, west to the Mediterranean, and south to the Negev desert, reaching the Gulf of Aqaba. The political status and geographic area designated by the term have changed considerably over the course of three millennia. The eastern boundary has been particularly fluid, often understood as lying east of the Jordan and extending at times to the edge of the Arabian Desert. A land of sharp contrasts, Palestine includes the Dead Sea, the lowest natural point of elevation on Earth, and mountain peaks higher than 2,000 ft (610 m) above sea level. In the 20th and 21st centuries it has been the object of conflicting claims by Jewish and Arab national movements. The region is sacred to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Settled since early prehistoric times, mainly by Semitic groups, it was occupied in biblical times by the kingdoms of Israel, Judah, and Judaea. It was subsequently held by virtually every power of the Middle East, including the Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Byzantines, Crusaders, and Ottomans. It was governed by Britain after the end of World War I (1914–18)—from 1922, under a League of Nations mandate—until 1948, when the State of Israel was proclaimed. Armies from Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, and Iraq attacked the next day. They were defeated by the Israeli army. _See_ Israel, Jordan, West Bank, and Gaza Stripfor later history of the region.

*Variants of PALESTINE*
*Palestine* biblical *Canaan*


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Joe Blow, you ignorant buffoon, when you go back to school, they will show you that Palestine has been Ottoman land for the last 700 years and the Ottomans called the area Southern Syria.
> ...



Hah?  Philistines?!  They were a sea faring people who were closer to Greeks, who are also an extinct people.  

So, all you got going against Israel is "the Arabs are having babies"? 

We have breaking news,  our correspondent Joe Blow is on the ground in the ME blowing hard, and he is reporting to us that...wait for it....wait for it...THE ARABS ARE HAVING BABIES! 

Oh the horror, the horror. Israel's total destruction is imminent.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Hah? Philistines?! They were a sea faring people who were closer to Greeks, who are also an extinct people.
> 
> So, all you got going against Israel is "the Arabs are having babies"?
> 
> ...



200 million Arabs vs. 6 million Jews.  Yup... you guys are toast.  It will be fun to watch.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Hah? Philistines?! They were a sea faring people who were closer to Greeks, who are also an extinct people.
> ...



600 million Arabs get their asses kicked regularly by 6 million Jews!  It looks like the Arabs are outnumbered!  Ha ha ha.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> 600 million Arabs get their asses kicked regularly by 6 million Jews! It looks like the Arabs are outnumbered! Ha ha ha.



The Zionists haven't won a war since 1967 without crying to the Americans to bail them out.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > 600 million Arabs get their asses kicked regularly by 6 million Jews! It looks like the Arabs are outnumbered! Ha ha ha.
> ...



Joe your factoids are great. FYI Israel fought and won five wars without any US support or help.  The US only teamed up with Israel due to American national security interests, after 1967 after it realized all the Arab states had in effect become Soviet client puppet states.  True story dude 

So tell us Joe Blow, does the 131 you have in your member name stand for your personal record of people blown at the local mosque on a single day?


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## Hossfly (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Hah? Philistines?! They were a sea faring people who were closer to Greeks, who are also an extinct people.
> ...


The 6 million Jews have 200 million Ayrabs surrounded where they can keep an eye out for mischief.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



200 million Arabs will unite with one trillion cockroaches and 10 trillion ants, they will multiply fast and then just by the sheer numbers of it, deal a fatal blow to Israel. 

Sounds like a plan to me.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> [
> 
> Joe your factoids are great. FYI Israel fought and won five wars without any US support or help.  The US only teamed up with Israel due to American national security interests, after 1967 after it realized all the Arab states had in effect become Soviet client puppet states.  True story dude
> ?



Uh, no, actually it didn't.  It won the 1948 war, and it won the 1967 war. 

The 1956 War was a loss.  The Egyptians won, they got control of the Canal. 

The 1973 War resulted in the Israelis realizing they couldn't hold on to the Sinai, they had to withdraw further back, and if Nixon hadn't rushed in a bunch of military aid at the last minute, they'd have probably been pushed into the sea.  

1982- Total loss. America had to bail them out.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



It didn't?  Then why are Arabs still whining?  Why do we keep hearing from jerkoffs that "all Arabs need to do is win one war against Israel"

Your donkey braying reminds me of Arab Moooslem Baghdad Bob types bragging about winning wars in which they suffered humiliating defeats in.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> It didn't? Then why are Arabs still whining? Why do we keep hearing from jerkoffs that "all Arabs need to do is win one war against Israel"
> 
> Your donkey braying reminds me of Arab Moooslem Baghdad Bob types bragging about winning wars in which they suffered humiliating defeats in.



The Arabs don't have to "win" a war.  

All they need to do is wait for young Israelis to finally figure out that it just isn't worth it. 

Eventually, they'll be in the majority, and much like their soul brothers, the Afrikaners in South Africa, Zionism will fall of its own weight.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 19, 2014)

*Najla Said, **The Israeli/Palestinian Conflict Isn't About Religion *


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > It didn't? Then why are Arabs still whining? Why do we keep hearing from jerkoffs that "all Arabs need to do is win one war against Israel"
> ...



Oh so we went from Arabs multiplying like cockroaches to banking on young Israelis not caring about their homeland. Ha ha ha

FYI young Israelis are much more nationalistic than the older generation. The Israeli economy is booming and creating good paying high tech jobs , defense industry, entrepreneurship and startups are also booming.  And you think young Israelis are going to give up their homeland. and let a bunch of medeival savages walk all over them?

Maybe you and Latici should start an Epic Fail Club?  Ha ha ha.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Oh so we went from Arabs multiplying like cockroaches to banking on young Israelis not caring about their homeland.



But that's the problem. It's not their "Homeland". It's a place their grandparents moved to from Europe because Hitler was a meanyhead. 

Which isn't really relevant to them at this point. Certainly not worth living next to people who want to kill you and paying three times as much for the privilage. 

Now, here's the thing.  If I lived in a place where my neighbors hated me so much that they were strapping bombs onto their kids to try to kill me... 

I'd move.  

Faster than that family in Poltergeist did.


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## Hossfly (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Oh so we went from Arabs multiplying like cockroaches to banking on young Israelis not caring about their homeland.
> ...


Move? Move? I'd burn their stinkin' house down. Let them move.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Okay, burn the house down.  they just want you gone. that's the point.  

The Palestinians tore down the houses of Jewish Settlers in Gaza.


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## toastman (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Oh so we went from Arabs multiplying like cockroaches to banking on young Israelis not caring about their homeland.
> ...



That's because you're a fuckin pussy


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

toastman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Well, no, I just don't endanger my life for something that is not worth it.  

You see, this is what I don't get about Zionists.  Is a Jewish "Homeland" really worth dying for?  Are you guys so insecure about your belief in sky fairies you can't live side by side with people who believe in other sky fairies?


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## toastman (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


You have a serious obsession with sky fairies lol. Most Israelis are secular..But to think that Israelis should move because of the attacks they've endured is ridiculous. 
Israel is relatively safe to live in anyway. Israel has found ways to block off the savage rabid animals that wish to harm her.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 19, 2014)

toastman said:


> [
> You have a serious obsession with sky fairies lol. Most Israelis are secular..But to think that Israelis should move because of the attacks they've endured is ridiculous.
> Israel is relatively safe to live in anyway. Israel has found ways to block off the savage rabid animals that wish to harm her.



Yes, and all they had to do to get there is live in an apartheid Police State. 

To get away from Nazis, become Nazis. 

Kind of defeats the point, doesn't it?


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## Indofred (Oct 19, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> The bits I want to see is the translation of your signature line into English. Do you mind if I post it?



I've already posted it, but it you want to be all last week, go ahead.


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## Hossfly (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Good grief!


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## Hossfly (Oct 19, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > The bits I want to see is the translation of your signature line into English. Do you mind if I post it?
> ...


Touch of class, Fred.


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## Indofred (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> The Arabs don't have to "win" a war.
> 
> *All they need to do is wait for young Israelis to finally figure out that it just isn't worth it. *
> 
> Eventually, they'll be in the majority, and much like their soul brothers, the Afrikaners in South Africa, Zionism will fall of its own weight.



Not really; they have to wait until Americans work out it isn't worth it.


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## Indofred (Oct 19, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



One tries.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Oh so we went from Arabs multiplying like cockroaches to banking on young Israelis not caring about their homeland.
> ...



Idiot when are you going to learn?  It's their homeland, they were born and bred there, their religion, culture and identity is rooted in Israel. And they will fight and protect it just as much as you or any American born patriot will defend their homeland from genocidal Islamic savages. You severely misunderstand and underestimate Israeli nationalism.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> *Najla Said, **The Israeli/Palestinian Conflict Isn't About Religion *



Ya right, the West Bank and Gaza were under the control of Egypt and Jordan for 20 years from 48 to 67, and there wasn't a peep from any Arab on any side about this mythical Palestine. Why?  Because it was under Moooooslem control, and they themselves laughed st the idea of an Arab Palestine. 

 The whole objection Mooooslems had against the  British and League of Nations proposal pre 48 was "why should it be a JEWISH state?  There's so many of us Arab Muslim invaders here!"  

Sure sure, it's not about Muslim intolerance and inability to coexist. And I'm the Queen of England.


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## Roudy (Oct 19, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...





Indofred said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



Fred's idea of class is the material that comes out of ones ass.


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## toastman (Oct 20, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



There is no connection between them and Nazis. That's your extreme hate speaking.
And explain where in Israel proper is there apartheid?


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## Penelope (Oct 20, 2014)

Many of the Hamas leaders were born and raised there, the Israelites left centuries ago. The Pals have been there longer than the Israelites, and that is their home.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Idiot when are you going to learn? It's their homeland, they were born and bred there, their religion, culture and identity is rooted in Israel. And they will fight and protect it just as much as you or any American born patriot will defend their homeland from genocidal Islamic savages. You severely misunderstand and underestimate Israeli nationalism.



When 30% of your population wants to immigrate, its no longer worth the bother. 

Also, all those same thing can be said of the Palestinians. 

Why is this OUR problem again?


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## Indofred (Oct 20, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Fred's idea of class is the material that comes out of ones ass.



No, I dislike Israeli propaganda.


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## Roudy (Oct 20, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Many of the Hamas leaders were born and raised there, the Israelites left centuries ago. The Pals have been there longer than the Israelites, and that is their home.



Yeah, that's what you say.  Hamas are terrorist animals.


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## Roudy (Oct 20, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Idiot when are you going to learn? It's their homeland, they were born and bred there, their religion, culture and identity is rooted in Israel. And they will fight and protect it just as much as you or any American born patriot will defend their homeland from genocidal Islamic savages. You severely misunderstand and underestimate Israeli nationalism.
> ...



Rrrrrright. Israel is a successful prosperous country. They aren't going anywhere.  They want their kids to grow up where they did. Wars are no longer fought the way they were before.


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## Roudy (Oct 20, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Fred's idea of class is the material that comes out of ones ass.
> ...



Whereas you Islamists aren't into propaganda.


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