# Are some people simply born evil??



## ginscpy

Like hitmen.

You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.

Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.


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## waltky

That's the point of Mt. 13.24-30...

... the parable of the wheat & tares...

... and where the term 'bad seed' comes from.

Granny says, "Born different' - or born bad?...

*Movie attack suspect got guns despite psych issues*
_November 21, 2012 - Mom: Movie attack plot Suspect 'Born Different'_


> A southwest Missouri man accused of plotting attacks at a movie theater and Walmart store legally bought the guns he allegedly planned to use, despite being forced to undergo a psychiatric exam three years ago after stalking a store clerk he said he planned to kill, authorities said. Blaec Lammers, 20, was arrested last week after his mother told police she feared he was planning an attack. Authorities say Lammers told investigators he planned to open fire during a showing last weekend of the new "Twilight" film and then inside a nearby Walmart in Bolivar, a town about 130 miles southeast of Kansas City.
> 
> Investigators determined he legally purchased two assault rifles, and also had 400 rounds of ammunition. He is charged with first-degree assault, making a terroristic threat and armed criminal action, and remained jailed Wednesday on $500,000 bond. The case has gun control advocates concerned. Daniel Vice, a senior attorney for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said Lammers' case reminds him of what happened before the Virginia Tech shooting in 2007. Student gunman Seung-Hui Cho, who fatally shot 32 people before killing himself, was able to buy two guns even though he had been ruled a danger to himself during a court hearing in 2005. "We've seen it before," Vice said. "We've been trying to fix this." The National Rifle Association didn't respond to a phone message seeking comment. Lammers' attorney, DeWayne Franklin Perry, declined to comment about the case.
> 
> Lammers' mother said her son had undergone inpatient treatment and has shown signs associated with Asperger's syndrome, borderline personality disorder and other conditions. "He didn't ask to be born different," Tricia Lammers said at a news conference this week at the National Alliance for Mental Illness in Springfield. "He wanted to be successful and be somebody. Just two weeks ago he asked me &#8212; both my kids still call me mommy &#8212; he said, 'Mommy, do you think I'm a failure?' I said, 'No, Blaec, I don't.'" Federal law has banned certain types of mentally ill people from buying guns since 1968, including those who have been deemed a danger to themselves or others, involuntarily committed, or judged not guilty by reason of insanity or incompetent to stand trial.
> 
> Lammers was involuntarily committed in 2009, after he brought a knife and rubber mask to a Walmart store and followed around a clerk, according to an arrest report. Lammers, who was 17 at the time, told investigators he was planning to kill the clerk when he heard his name over the public address system and his father hollering at him. He wasn't charged, but he was involuntarily committed for 96 hours for a mental health examination. In Missouri, hospitals, law enforcement officials and private citizens can request a person be held against his or her will for up to 96 hours if the person appears to be a threat to themselves or others. But such an involuntary hold doesn't necessarily bar someone from purchasing a firearm, because the federal law requires that a person be "adjudicated as a mental defective," said Trista K. Frederick, a special agent and spokeswoman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms office in Kansas City.
> 
> MORE


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## BreezeWood

*Are some people simply born evil??*


that does not seem likely ... but if so, my fathers side of the family fits the bill.


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## Wiseacre

I don't think so.   I think babies are born with an empty slate, their upbringing and circumstances pretty much determine their personality by the time they're 10 years old.   I do think people can change after that, but it ain't easy.


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## skye

It depends ... it's   a nature   versus  nurture debate.

If the child was abused and didn't know what love was ... that will help in him or her becoming a criminal.

People have negative genes in them when they are born... and if they grow up in an atmosphere conductive to crime ... yes .... they will become serial murders  probably.


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## Billo_Really

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.


Everyone is capable of murder.

To answer your question, no, people are not born evil.  That is something their taught.


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## rdean

Are some people simply born evil??


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## Billo_Really

Wiseacre said:


> I don't think so.   I think babies are born with an empty slate, their upbringing and circumstances pretty much determine their personality by the time they're 10 years old.   I do think people can change after that, but it ain't easy.


They're a tabla rasa.


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## skye

why the inevitable video rdean? ,,,, why not a human answer?


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## Billo_Really

skye said:


> why the inevitable video rdean? ,,,, why not a human answer?


I second that.


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## midcan5

"We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen

*Children are not blank slates,* I do not claim to be the greatest observer of humankind but anyone who has watched babies, infants, grow, witnesses behaviors, fears, activity and especially language as part of the biological person. Watching my first granddaughter talk and talk and talk even though none of it was intelligible demonstrated for me the innate gifts of humans. Evil though requires context, experience and a whole panoply of interactions and development. It requires especially background as the Holocaust should demonstrate to anyone. Consider too Racism. Remember Cain and remember too the concept of Original sin. Now explain empathy and its opposite. Or the Golden rule. It is a topic I have read lots on and offer a few sources below.  In my database of stuff I have a listing titled Evil. 

Excellent piece. Philip Zimbardo: The psychology of evil | Video on TED.com

and if you read:  [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Evil-Ordinary-Genocide-Killing/dp/0195189493/ref=pd_cp_b_2]Amazon.com: Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing (9780195189490): James Waller: Books[/ame]


Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy: Inside a school for suicide bombers | Video on TED.com

'A replication of the famous 1961 Milgram Experiment has found that the majority of people will comply with orders to administer painful shocks to an innocent person. Recreated Study Finds that People Still Willing to Torture Others


"The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis 'Sanctions for Evil'  [old but interesting read]

"The rhetoric about hatred, about mistrust of government, about paranoia of how government operates  and to try to inflame the public on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, seven days a week  has impact on people, especially (those) who are unbalanced personalities to begin with." Sheriff Clarence Dupnik

"Terrorism require alienated individuals, a complicit community, and a legitimizing ideology motivated by a desire for revenge, renown, and reaction from the enemy." Louise Richardson

"The remarkable thing is that we really love our neighbors as ourselves: we do unto others as we do unto ourselves. We hate others when we hate ourselves. We are tolerant of others when we tolerate ourselves." Eric Hoffer

See also: 'The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature'   Steven Pinker 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-where-does-evil-come-from-6.html#post2457564


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## Unkotare

loinboy said:


> They're a tabla rasa.




Oh, and you thought you'd sound so intelligent... Nice try...


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## Wiseacre

midcan5 said:


> "We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen
> 
> *Children are not blank slates,* I do not claim to be the greatest observer of humankind but anyone who has watched babies, infants, grow, witnesses behaviors, fears, activity and especially language as part of the biological person. Watching my first granddaughter talk and talk and talk even though none of it was intelligible demonstrated for me the innate gifts of humans. Evil though requires context, experience and a whole panoply of interactions and development. It requires especially background as the Holocaust should demonstrate to anyone. Consider too Racism. Remember Cain and remember too the concept of Original sin. Now explain empathy and its opposite. Or the Golden rule. It is a topic I have read lots on and offer a few sources below.  In my database of stuff I have a listing titled Evil.
> 
> Excellent piece. Philip Zimbardo: The psychology of evil | Video on TED.com
> 
> and if you read:  Amazon.com: Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing (9780195189490): James Waller: Books
> 
> 
> Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy: Inside a school for suicide bombers | Video on TED.com
> 
> 'A replication of the famous 1961 Milgram Experiment has found that the majority of people will comply with orders to administer painful shocks to an innocent person. Recreated Study Finds that People Still Willing to Torture Others
> 
> 
> "The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis 'Sanctions for Evil'  [old but interesting read]
> 
> "The rhetoric about hatred, about mistrust of government, about paranoia of how government operates  and to try to inflame the public on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, seven days a week  has impact on people, especially (those) who are unbalanced personalities to begin with." Sheriff Clarence Dupnik
> 
> "Terrorism require alienated individuals, a complicit community, and a legitimizing ideology motivated by a desire for revenge, renown, and reaction from the enemy." Louise Richardson
> 
> "The remarkable thing is that we really love our neighbors as ourselves: we do unto others as we do unto ourselves. We hate others when we hate ourselves. We are tolerant of others when we tolerate ourselves." Eric Hoffer
> 
> See also: 'The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature'   Steven Pinker
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-where-does-evil-come-from-6.html#post2457564




I think evil requires a knowledge of right and wrong, and no one is born with that.


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## Truthmatters

brain wiring.

yes some people are born with improper brain wiring for human compassion.


Evil is not the same as having improper brain wiring.


The actions of such people are not always evil.


These people are about 4 in 100 people.

1 will be female and 3 will be males.


They dont have any emotional response to the pain or joy of another human being.


They spend all the time you spend thinking about your loved ones thinking about how to get what they want out of people.


sociopaths.


The republican party calls them their heros.


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## midcan5

Wiseacre said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....*Children are not blank slates,* I do not claim to be the greatest observer of humankind but anyone who has watched babies, infants, grow, witnesses behaviors, fears, activity and especially language as part of the biological person. Watching my first granddaughter talk and talk and talk even though none of it was intelligible demonstrated for me the innate gifts of humans. Evil though requires context, experience and a whole panoply of interactions and development. It requires especially background as the Holocaust should demonstrate to anyone. Consider too Racism. Remember Cain and remember too the concept of Original sin. Now explain empathy and its opposite. Or the Golden rule. It is a topic I have read lots on and offer a few sources below.  In my database of stuff I have a listing titled Evil.
> 
> Excellent piece. Philip Zimbardo: The psychology of evil | Video on TED.com
> 
> and if you read:  Amazon.com: Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing (9780195189490): James Waller: Books
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think evil requires a knowledge of right and wrong, and no one is born with that.
Click to expand...


Neither would we say a child is born good for the same reason. But that is too simple and sometimes we need to look at extremes. Consider gays or transsexuals or any number of behaviors that are rooted in the person and not some learned or reasoned behavior. What is the source of these behaviors?  What leads to good or bad people and if it is only learned then can we say anyone is good or bad. Nature v Nurture returns.

Consider Capgras or the person who feels their leg does not belong to them and they must get rid of it or psychopaths. In some cases brain injuries cause these actions but why in this particular form. Here's a piece to ponder.

VS Ramachandran: 3 clues to understanding your brain | Video on TED.com


Apotemnophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sherry

Everyone is born with the potential to commit evil acts.


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## Dreamy

I think the hardest thing to comprehend for me is that a child might be evil but I don't dismiss they could be.

I would love to know what studies or examinations on the actual physical aspects of the brain have shown if anything.


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## Wiseacre

midcan5 said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....*Children are not blank slates,* I do not claim to be the greatest observer of humankind but anyone who has watched babies, infants, grow, witnesses behaviors, fears, activity and especially language as part of the biological person. Watching my first granddaughter talk and talk and talk even though none of it was intelligible demonstrated for me the innate gifts of humans. Evil though requires context, experience and a whole panoply of interactions and development. It requires especially background as the Holocaust should demonstrate to anyone. Consider too Racism. Remember Cain and remember too the concept of Original sin. Now explain empathy and its opposite. Or the Golden rule. It is a topic I have read lots on and offer a few sources below.  In my database of stuff I have a listing titled Evil.
> 
> Excellent piece. Philip Zimbardo: The psychology of evil | Video on TED.com
> 
> and if you read:  Amazon.com: Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing (9780195189490): James Waller: Books
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think evil requires a knowledge of right and wrong, and no one is born with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither would we say a child is born good for the same reason. But that is too simple and sometimes we need to look at extremes. Consider gays or transsexuals or any number of behaviors that are rooted in the person and not some learned or reasoned behavior. What is the source of these behaviors?  What leads to good or bad people and if it is only learned then can we say anyone is good or bad. Nature v Nurture returns.
> 
> Consider Capgras or the person who feels their leg does not belong to them and they must get rid of it or psychopaths. In some cases brain injuries cause these actions but why in this particular form. Here's a piece to ponder.
> 
> VS Ramachandran: 3 clues to understanding your brain | Video on TED.com
> 
> 
> Apotemnophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...



I think sexual preference is more likely to be a genetic disposition you're born with.   Not so sure about socio- or psychopaths, but it could also be genetic.   But that leads to a question about evil - is it evil if you don't realize what you're is wrong?


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## midcan5

Wiseacre said:


> I think sexual preference is more likely to be a genetic disposition you're born with.   Not so sure about socio- or psychopaths, but it could also be genetic.   But that leads to a question about evil - is it evil if you don't realize what you're is wrong?



I will answer that later with a reference to Hitler, our favorite evil. 

It may be that there are propensities rather than specific traits or genes. I have read that many CEO have psychopathic type personalities. Their behavior presents, by some interpretations a kind of careless, thoughtless activity that forgets moral boundaries. Having meet a few ceos I'd have to disagree, but then how do I know deep down where they get their emotions and ideas from? I was fascinated by how quickly Americans lost their sense of reflection after 911. 'Turn the other cheek' may be in the bible but few consider it. Any study of history shows fear, intolerance, excessive faith in one's own beliefs, dehumanization of others, victimizing, group think, ethnocentrism, xenophobia lead to bad places. When does empathy enter the conversation, I was listening to a conversation the other day on the so called fiscal cliff and the importance of a balanced approach. Now consider what that means morally. It means that some handicapped or poverty level children must give up some care and the wealthy person must forgo another Bentley. Exaggeration yes, but who suffers more. 

"Evil is not to be traced back to the individual but to the collective behavior of humanity." Reinhold Niebuhr


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## Dante

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.



Hard to say, but the hit men I've known were not evil when we were younger


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## Dante

waltky said:


> That's the point of Mt. 13.24-30...
> 
> ... the parable of the wheat & tares...
> 
> ... and where the term 'bad seed' comes from.
> 
> Granny says, "Born different' - or born bad?...



The Bible has made more people become evil than any book I can imagine.


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## Dante

Wiseacre said:


> I don't think so.   I think babies are born with an empty slate, their upbringing and circumstances pretty much determine their personality by the time they're 10 years old.   I do think people can change after that, but it ain't easy.



agreed. Even counting flaws in brain chemistry and development, evil is a human concept.


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## Dante

skye said:


> It depends ... it's   a nature   versus  nurture debate.
> 
> If the child was abused and didn't know what love was ... that will help in him or her becoming a criminal.
> 
> People have negative genes in them when they are born... and if they grow up in an atmosphere conductive to crime ... yes .... they will become serial murders  probably.



negative genes?




methinks you misspeak


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## Dante

midcan5 said:


> "We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen
> 
> *Children are not blank slates...Evil though requires context, experience and a whole panoply of interactions and development. It requires especially background as the Holocaust should demonstrate to anyone.
> 
> Consider too Racism. Remember Cain and remember too the concept of Original sin. Now explain empathy and its opposite. Or the Golden rule.
> *


*

The other. Us versus them.  God.   Moral clarity? I detest and despise most all self-appointed moralists. 

The concept of original sin helped make mankind into a killing machine. It allows us to blame others for life gone astray. It demonized women. It demonized symbolic rituals and myths that used to celebrate the snake and nature as anything but evil and dangerous.

Evil is a human construct and concept. It's evil. *


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## Dreamy

Dante said:


> waltky said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the point of Mt. 13.24-30...
> 
> ... the parable of the wheat & tares...
> 
> ... and where the term 'bad seed' comes from.
> 
> Granny says, "Born different' - or born bad?...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bible has made more people become evil than any book I can imagine.
Click to expand...


How do words in a book make anyone become evil? Do you believe music has that same power Mrs. Gore?


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## KudoZ

Evil is a discriptive word which is open to subjective analysis.  I'd rather use the term anti-social.  Yes, abosoutely it is an inborn trait.  I've watch 3 generations of children grow up and right from the start you can see the agressive ones who have no remorse for anything that they do.  And you cannot teach how wrong that is to them.
   I walk pass schoolyards full of bouncing, lively children and ask myself...which ones will be the thieves, the robbers, the killers?  You can't tell, but you know they are out there right in front of you.


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## skye

Dante said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> It depends ... it's   a nature   versus  nurture debate.
> 
> If the child was abused and didn't know what love was ... that will help in him or her becoming a criminal.
> 
> People have negative genes in them when they are born... and if they grow up in an atmosphere conductive to crime ... yes .... they will become serial murders  probably.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> negative genes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> methinks you misspeak
Click to expand...



What I meant is... some people are predisposed to become criminals because of their genetic disposition.... if we add to that an abusive childhood  and all what that implies .... then all factors will lead them to become  a  murder, a serial killer or worse.

This all has been scientifically proven.


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## AquaAthena

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.



This video addresses your question and was recently aired on 60 minutes, and I learned much, from it. 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRvVFW85IcU]Born good? Babies help unlock the origins of morality - YouTube[/ame]


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## Bill Angel

Two Headed Infant (good and evil)​
 In each of us, two natures are at war  the good and the evil. All our lives the fight goes on between them, and one of them must conquer. But in our own hands lies the power to choose  what we want most to be, we are.  &#8213; Robert Louis Stevenson

 We've all got both light and dark inside us. What matters is the part we choose to act on. That's who we really are.  &#8213; J.K. Rowling.


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## waltky

Dante wrote: _The Bible has made more people become evil than any book I can imagine._

Granny says you should know...

... takes one to call one.


Sherry wrote: _Everyone is born with the potential to commit evil acts._

Some more so than others.


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## midcan5

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/0/b/1/0b15a3...1ce3dae902ea1d01cd8334d6cd5815d5&c_id=1778986


"If the Lord must be disappointed in us men and our ways, so must be the Devil in the face of such courage, love, and companionship as plain people show." Norman Thomas


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## jan

skye said:


> It depends ... it's   a nature   versus  nurture debate.
> 
> If the child was abused and didn't know what love was ... that will help in him or her becoming a criminal.
> 
> People have negative genes in them when they are born... and if they grow up in an atmosphere conductive to crime ... yes .... they will become serial murders  probably.



Negative genes?  Okay...we'll call it that...but I'll go on record right now and say that I believe some kids are born bad.  I know that's not a politically correct way to think of children...but what about people like Jeffery Dahmer and so forth?  Doctors have stated that his parents were pretty normal, all American, middle class folks and that Jeffery had a pretty normal upbringing.  That flies in the face of nuture only.  Nature has to have something to do with it...negative genes or whatever. 



Wiseacre said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think evil requires a knowledge of right and wrong, and no one is born with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither would we say a child is born good for the same reason. But that is too simple and sometimes we need to look at extremes. Consider gays or transsexuals or any number of behaviors that are rooted in the person and not some learned or reasoned behavior. What is the source of these behaviors?  What leads to good or bad people and if it is only learned then can we say anyone is good or bad. Nature v Nurture returns.
> 
> Consider Capgras or the person who feels their leg does not belong to them and they must get rid of it or psychopaths. In some cases brain injuries cause these actions but why in this particular form. Here's a piece to ponder.
> 
> VS Ramachandran: 3 clues to understanding your brain | Video on TED.com
> 
> 
> Apotemnophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *I think sexual preference is more likely to be a genetic disposition you're born with.   Not so sure about socio- or psychopaths, but it could also be genetic.*   But that leads to a question about evil - is it evil if you don't realize what you're is wrong?
Click to expand...


If sexual orientation can be genetic...and a tendency to certain diseases genetic...why not a propensity towards evil as well?  I see no difference with calling it genetic...although I can also understand how environment may aggravate a sitiation with a child as well.



midcan5 said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think sexual preference is more likely to be a genetic disposition you're born with.   Not so sure about socio- or psychopaths, but it could also be genetic.   But that leads to a question about evil - is it evil if you don't realize what you're is wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will answer that later with a reference to Hitler, our favorite evil.
> 
> It may be that there are propensities rather than specific traits or genes. I have read that many CEO have psychopathic type personalities. Their behavior presents, by some interpretations a kind of careless, thoughtless activity that forgets moral boundaries. Having meet a few ceos I'd have to disagree, but then how do I know deep down where they get their emotions and ideas from? I was fascinated by how quickly Americans lost their sense of reflection after 911. 'Turn the other cheek' may be in the bible but few consider it. Any study of history shows fear, intolerance, excessive faith in one's own beliefs, dehumanization of others, victimizing, group think, ethnocentrism, xenophobia lead to bad places. When does empathy enter the conversation, I was listening to a conversation the other day on the so called fiscal cliff and the importance of a balanced approach. Now consider what that means morally. It means that some handicapped or poverty level children must give up some care and the wealthy person must forgo another Bentley. Exaggeration yes, but who suffers more.
> 
> "Evil is not to be traced back to the individual but to the collective behavior of humanity." Reinhold Niebuhr
Click to expand...


Why should humanity take the blame for a child being born bad?  If we limit reproduction among "at risk" people with "iffy" genes...that's playing God.  I kind of think of it as a hit or miss thing.

I don't want anyone to think that I'm excusing the parents...cause good parenting is essential in raising productive human beings.  But I also think that parents can bang their heads against the wall trying to do everything right and low and behond that child turns out to be a Jeffery Dahmer.  Go figure!  I think it's something in the genetic makeup.


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## RoccoR

ginscpy,  _et al,_

This "may" _(repeat "may")_ be more genetic than moral or ethical in your conscience.  It might be amplified by your environment.



ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.


*(COMMENT)*

These are just two examples (MAO-A and VMAT-2) that, in conjunction, they could produce a religious fanatic or terrorist.  In some measure, they may produce hundreds --- out of millions --- a cadre of spiritual followers ready to activate.

We "may" be all hard-wired to be what we are; amplified by our environment and teachings.  The clergyman, tinker, tailor, soldiers, or terrorist.

*(QUESTION)* 


Are some people simply born evil?

*Answer:*  It is very possible; built into your genetic code.​
Most Respectfully,
R

*NOTES:*

Abstract:
Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) has earned the nickname warrior gene because it has been linked to aggression in observational and survey-based studies. However, no controlled experimental studies have tested whether the warrior gene actually drives behavioral manifestations of these tendencies. We report an experiment, synthesizing work in psychology and behavioral economics, which demonstrates that aggression occurs with greater intensity and frequency as provocation is experimentally manipulated upwards, especially among low activity MAOA (MAOA-L) subjects. In this study, subjects paid to punish those they believed had taken money from them by administering varying amounts of unpleasantly hot (spicy) sauce to their opponent. There is some evidence of a main effect for genotype and some evidence for a gene by environment interaction, such that MAOA is less associated with the occurrence of aggression in a low provocation condition, but significantly predicts such behavior in a high provocation situation. This new evidence for genetic influences on aggression and punishment behavior complicates characterizations of humans as altruistic punishers and supports theories of cooperation that propose mixed strategies in the population. It also suggests important implications for the role of individual variance in genetic factors contributing to everyday behaviors and decisions.
SOURCE:  Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) predicts behavioral aggression following provocation​
Entrez Gene summary for MAOA:
This gene is one of two neighboring gene family members that encode mitochondrial enzymes which catalyze the oxidative deamination of amines, such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Mutation of this gene results in Brunner syndrome. This gene has also been associated with a variety of other psychiatric disorders, including antisocial behavior. Alternatively spliced transcript variants encoding multiple isoforms have been observed. (provided by RefSeq, Jul 2012)
SOURCE: MAOA monoamine oxidase A [Homo sapiens] - Gene - NCBI​
Vmat2, or the God Gene: Reading Spirituality in the Human Genome:
As the research is still premature, it is difficult to formulate an opinion regarding the matter. The discovery of vmat2 seems to imply that spirituality is equivalent to a genetic phenomenon, such as eye color or the inherited predisposition for a particular disease. Incomplete penetrance could account for why some individuals are more spiritual than others, Mendel's 1st law of segregation could account for why spirituality may skip a few generations in a family, and genetic mutations could account for religious fanaticism. 
SOUrCE:  

Vmat2, or the God Gene: Reading Spirituality in the Human Genome | Serendip Studio
SLC18A2 Gene - GeneCards | VMAT2 Protein | VMAT2 Antibody


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## lizzie

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.


 
I don't believe that people are "born" evil, but rather become highly dysfunctional as a result of negative experiences, bad parenting, and predisposing factors which bring out a higher tendency toward horrendous actions.


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## Samson

Truthmatters said:


> brain wiring.
> 
> yes some people are born with improper brain wiring for human compassion.



I don't suppose you'd like to address the issue of "improper wiring" for logical thought?


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## Connery

I do not believe anyone is born  "evil", rather, depending on a variety of factors they simply have disregard for the rights of others. That "disregard" can manifest itself in severity depending on what societal mores are. For example, polygamy may be considered evil by some cultures and may be the norm in others. In the society that condemns polygamy the person may be considered evil. 

Good and evil are very subjective measures for which society has punishment and reward systems.


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## Brawd

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.



No, people are not born evil.


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## waltky

Granny says lil' babies is like a blank slate...

... it depends on what kind of environment dey is born into...

... an' what dey are taught an' experience in dat environment...

... an' what dey are allowed or not allowed to get away with.


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## auditor0007

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.



Some people are born mentally unstable.  This may lead them to not have a conscience which could lead to a career as a hit man.  They just wouldn't care.  Some people turn evil because of abuse.  I don't know what the numbers are, but I do know that the majority of rapists were sexually abused themselves at some point, usually as children.  As for being born evil, I don't think so.


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## Liberal.Scott

The real question for me, is what is evil?


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## Billo_Really

No one is born evil.

That is programmed into them by the republican right.


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## PrometheusBound

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.




All criminals are enemies of the human race and must be exterminated even before they kill anybody.  We have no moral obligation to give them a second chance.  That usually means a second chance to harm more people, so we are abetting crime with that attitude.

This includes the mentally defective who commit crime.  Letting them off because "it's not their fault" is also ignoring their victims.  We should not let them live, because life is a right that has to be earned.

The ruling class turns loose criminals to distract us from our duty to overthrow a ruling class that would do that.


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## Esmeralda

skye said:


> It depends ... it's   a nature   versus  nurture debate.
> 
> If the child was abused and didn't know what love was ... that will help in him or her becoming a criminal.
> 
> People have negative genes in them when they are born... and if they grow up in an atmosphere conductive to crime ... yes .... they will become serial murders  probably.





Wiseacre said:


> I don't think so.   I think babies are born with an empty slate, their upbringing and circumstances pretty much determine their personality by the time they're 10 years old.   I do think people can change after that, but it ain't easy.



I know from first hand experience, that people can be born of the same parents, raised together all of their childhoods by the same parents in the same environment, and be very different people, including one being very messed up, very bad (a social misfit, sociopathic behavior, end up in prison for violent crimes, etc.) and the other children in the family lead very normal lives with no sociopathic behavior or violence.  What accounts for this?  It isn't down to abuse, and the child, the 'bad seed,' had the same home life and parenting as his/her siblings.  

I think it has to do with a weakness of character that the child is born with.  It's a roulette roll basically, what we end up with genetically.  I don't think any child is born bad, but everyone is born with certain weaknesses, and in some people those weaknesses lead to very bad choices which snowball or accumulate into more bad choices and more bad choices until pathology develops and they become a sociopath or psychopath.  

I agree with the idea that you can often see that this process has begun and implanted itself in the person by the time they are ten years old.

However, there is also true mental illness,  like schizophrenia, which is most likely somewhere in the genes but hidden until the person reaches young adulthood and then it develops.  I think people with untreated  schizophrenia do very evil things but they are mentally ill and  having true delusions.  We hear stories of such people, like the guy who did the massacre in the theater in Arizona.  By all accounts he was a normal person until a year or so before the massacre.  If he indeed has schizophrenia, it means he went insane with it and was controlled by the illness and the delusions of the illness.  (I'm not trying to excuse his behavior or even say with certainty he has schizophrenia; I'm saying if he does.)

It may also be that people can make themselves appear normal, but be harboring very bad (I don't like the word evil as it has religious connotations), sociopathic behavior, inside and their actions are restrained until a time when they lose control and the sociopathic behavior emerges in full force, like the Craig's List killer.  

But, for the most part, in my opinion, people are born with personality characteristics that develop as we develop and weaknesses or strengths develop due to a combination of those characteristics and personal choices.


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## Politico

Holy resurrection Batman!

And hitmen are not automatically evil.


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## HUGGY

ginscpy said:


> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.



Everyone in the armed forces is capable of being a murderer in theory.  A hitman is just a soldier for hire.  He gets his orders just like a private in a land war that is ordered to kill an "enemy" without remorse or any investigation as to whether his victim is guilty of anything.

At least a hitman is usually well aquainted with his assigned target.  

A CIA type killer is also usually well informed of his enemy.   It's not like TV.  It's not like in the movies.  CIA assassins ferret out spies and other enemy assassins and kill them and dispose of the corpses. 

I knew such a man.  He was a good man and a hero to our country in my eyes.  I liked him and respected him.  He was one of my dads best friends.  They knew each other in college before the man was recruited by the government to do this kind of work.

Yes some people are evil.  It depends on who you care about protecting that decides who is evil sometimes.


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## Esmeralda

HUGGY said:


> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone in the armed forces is capable of being a murderer in theory.  A hitman is just a soldier for hire.  He gets his orders just like a private in a land war that is ordered to kill an "enemy" without remorse or any investigation as to whether his victim is guilty of anything.
> 
> At least a hitman is usually well aquainted with his assigned target.
> 
> A CIA type killer is also usually well informed of his enemy.   It's not like TV.  It's not like in the movies.  CIA assassins ferret out spies and other enemy assassins and kill them and dispose of the corpses.
> 
> I knew such a man.  He was a good man and a hero to our country in my eyes.  I liked him and respected him.  He was one of my dads best friends.  They knew each other in college before the man was recruited by the government to do this kind of work.
> 
> Yes some people are evil.  It depends on who you care about protecting that decides who is evil sometimes.
Click to expand...


What about this guy?


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## HUGGY

Esmeralda said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ginscpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like hitmen.
> 
> You could never pay me enough/any  money to take another human life.
> 
> Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone in the armed forces is capable of being a murderer in theory.  A hitman is just a soldier for hire.  He gets his orders just like a private in a land war that is ordered to kill an "enemy" without remorse or any investigation as to whether his victim is guilty of anything.
> 
> At least a hitman is usually well aquainted with his assigned target.
> 
> A CIA type killer is also usually well informed of his enemy.   It's not like TV.  It's not like in the movies.  CIA assassins ferret out spies and other enemy assassins and kill them and dispose of the corpses.
> 
> I knew such a man.  He was a good man and a hero to our country in my eyes.  I liked him and respected him.  He was one of my dads best friends.  They knew each other in college before the man was recruited by the government to do this kind of work.
> 
> Yes some people are evil.  It depends on who you care about protecting that decides who is evil sometimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about this guy?   [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vn7Hz2PK7s]Serial Killer / Hitman - Richard Kuklinski (The Iceman) - Documentary - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


I don't know him.  I was merely offering an example of someone that killed people that I did not consider evil.

I'm sure there are evil people.  I've met several.  Usually they are so disoriented and out of control that they are obvious to all but the natural born victim.  I am more fascinated that someone would hire a killer and not do it themselves.  It seems that if someone needs eliminating it would be less complicated to involve as few people as possible.

Let's say someone raped your sister or mother.  You gained knowledge of who that person was and how to locate him.  Do you call the police and risk an unfavorable verdict?  Do you waste taxpayers money by housing the piece of shit?  Sex offenders can't be cured or rehabilitated so what happens when he gets out of prison?  Do you hire a "hitman" to do the job?  If you do you are forever linked to the crime of murder.  Do you have the guts and intelligence to make the person dissappear on your own in such a way that there is no evidence?  Are you evil for even thinking about this revenge?

These days with the wiretaps and such it is stupid to hire a hitman.  One hears every day almost about some dumbass getting caught by the police trying to hire a killer.  Sometimes it is impossible to figure out what evil is.


----------



## editec

Liberal.Scott said:


> The real question for me, is what is evil?



Thank you for saving me the trouble of asking the same question.

But if we define evil in that most pedestrian way that pretty much everybody can agree to?

I* think the answer is YES, some people are born damaged such that they are VERY MUCH prone to antisocial behaviors.
*

I add "very much" because most of us have _SOME_ inclination to anti-social behavior.


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## Unkotare

HUGGY said:


> Everyone in the armed forces is capable of being a murderer in theory. .





Only to the extent that every human being is so capable, and no further.


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## Unkotare

It's not a matter of being "born evil." We are all born with the capacity to exercise free will to the extent that the circumstances we are born into permit. "Evil" exists in the world, and some people - the weak, the defective, those conditioned a certain way - all too often choose to embrace it rather than what they know is right.


----------

