# Bitcoin ----- what is it EXACTLY???



## Baron Von Murderpaws (Sep 8, 2021)

I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............

But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.

By the end of the year, I plan to buy some gold coins and Bitcoin and hold on to it until retirement age.
I understand buying gold.   I still do NOT understand Bitcoin.

I have a friend thats a financial advisor, and he tried to explain Bitcoin to me.....and I didn't get anything out of it.

Is there any super simplified information online that explains what Bitcoin is, how it works, and all that???

Inquiring minds wanna know........LOL.


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## LA RAM FAN (Sep 8, 2021)

Well if you couldnt understand anything from your friend and I’m not saying I understand it,then you probably should forget it IMO.


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## Godboy (Sep 8, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...


I would suggest against it. Its possible that it could end up getting really big, but its more likely to go the other way. Bitcoin is facing several problems in the future. The first is, large companies are now getting into the cryptocurrency game. The market is going to get saturated with these and Bitcoin will take a big hit for it.

The other problem Bitcoin has is cyberwarfare. International crime syndicates are demanding bitcoin now as a ransom because, it cant be traced. Thats why governments are going to crack down on it, at which point it will be worth significantly less. The US is already looking into making a national virtual currency. If they go that route, bitcoin is over. China has already banned cryptocurrency.

I would look at bitcoin as a short term investment only, unless you have cash to spare.


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## dblack (Sep 8, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I would suggest against it. Its possible that it could end up getting really big, but its more likely to go the other way. Bitcoin is facing several problems in the future. The first is, large companies are now getting into the cryptocurrency game. The market is going to get saturated with these and Bitcoin will take a big hit for it.
> 
> The other problem Bitcoin has is cyberwarfare. International crime syndicates are demanding bitcoin now as a ransom because, it cant be traced. Thats why governments are going to crack down on it, at which point it will be worth significantly less. The US is already looking into making a national virtual currency. If they go that route, bitcoin is over. China has already banned cryptocurrency.


I don't think attempts by governments to regulate it, or supplant it, will work. The entire point of Bitcoin is to wrest control of currency away from governments. That's the reason it was created. Most bitcoin users will not be interested in a virtual currency controlled by corporations or government.


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## Godboy (Sep 8, 2021)

dblack said:


> I don't think attempts by governments to regulate it, or supplant it, will work. The entire point of Bitcoin is to wrest control of currency away from governments. That's the reason it was created. Most bitcoin users will not be interested in a virtual currency controlled by corporations or government.


The thing is, the US can ban it from being used within the US banking system, ban US companies from using it and ban it in a whole bunch of other areas, making it extremely hard to spend, which will crush its value. The moment the US decides to end Bitcoin, they can do it pretty easily.


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## dblack (Sep 8, 2021)

Godboy said:


> The thing is, the US can ban it from being used within the US banking system, US companies and a whole bunch of other areas, making it very hard to spend, which will crush its value.


Oh, yes - they can do a lot to undermine it, and I'm sure they will. But I don't think they'll be able to replace it.


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## Larsky (Sep 8, 2021)

I picked up $1000.00 at the start. It's been ok.


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## MarathonMike (Sep 8, 2021)

dblack said:


> Oh, yes - they can do a lot to undermine it, and I'm sure they will. But I don't think they'll be able to replace it.


I agree. There is too much support in the world for bitcoin to persist. It's valuation will continue to fluctuate wildly, but I don't see it or cryptocurrency in general going away.


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## Godboy (Sep 8, 2021)

dblack said:


> Oh, yes - they can do a lot to undermine it, and I'm sure they will. But I don't think they'll be able to replace it.


A US backed cryptocurrency could be used anywhere in the world. It would instantly become the big dog out there.


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## skye (Sep 8, 2021)

Nope.

Bitcoin shit not for moi.

I'm old fashioned


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## Esdraelon (Sep 8, 2021)

Godboy said:


> A US backed cryptocurrency could be used anywhere in the world. It would instantly become the big dog out there.


You are aware of our 28 TRILLION DOLLAR debt load, yeah?  I don't pretend to understand economics or cryptocurrency but I do understand the effects of creating such a massive load of Fiat currency, all being dumped into our economy over such a brief period.  The goal is to collapse the dollar and my guess is it will happen within the next year.  The ride gets VERY wild from that point forward.


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## The Irish Ram (Sep 8, 2021)

Godboy said:


> A US backed cryptocurrency could be used anywhere in the world. It would instantly become the big dog out there.


It's almost like monopoly money.  In a pretend wallet on the internet.  It can disappear like it never existed.  It can be stolen.  It's just strange.
 And I believe crypto is going to replace the dollar.  In our virtual wallet, that the government has access to.  Your crypto pay check deposits automatically, and the gov. withdraws their monthly taxes for mileage usage per vehicle, per month. And the fossil fuel use tax, unrealized capital gain tax, carbon footprint tax, climate change fund, penalty for over your limit energy usage, then you get what is left...for now.


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## Asclepias (Sep 8, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...


Since your friend couldn't explain it to you and the book was a waste, all you need to know is that its like anything else you invest in. It's worth what people believe it's worth.  The security of the transactions are way better than anything else and it leaves a digital trail. The block chain, encryption, security, and algorithms that go into it will just confuse you more.


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## Asclepias (Sep 8, 2021)

ESDRAELON said:


> The goal is to collapse the dollar


The dollar is also fiat. Its based on the same thing crypto currency is based on.


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## fncceo (Sep 9, 2021)

Like all fiat money ... it's a worthless entity that people agree to accept in exchange for goods or services


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 9, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I would suggest against it. Its possible that it could end up getting really big, but its more likely to go the other way. Bitcoin is facing several problems in the future. The first is, large companies are now getting into the cryptocurrency game. The market is going to get saturated with these and Bitcoin will take a big hit for it.
> 
> The other problem Bitcoin has is cyberwarfare. International crime syndicates are demanding bitcoin now as a ransom because, it cant be traced. Thats why governments are going to crack down on it, at which point it will be worth significantly less. The US is already looking into making a national virtual currency. If they go that route, bitcoin is over. China has already banned cryptocurrency.
> 
> I would look at bitcoin as a short term investment only, unless you have cash to spare.



Governments can do jack-shit about Crypto, several have made it completely illegal, and that has done nothing to prevent people from exchanging in it. Most people have multiple Crypto wallets, so that even if they are EXTREMELY careless with their information and the Government somehow gets a hold of it, they can only try to seize a small amount of their Crypto assets(In which case, it's their fault for giving out information that people shouldn't actually have). Secondly, Crypto HAS to be decentralized, so big companies can't actually make it, since their involvement would mean that they MUST be able to control it. Additionally, if a company is intending to actually involve themselves in Crypto, they have to make it taxable, in which case it's not Crypto, because that means it's not secure. Facebook already tried making fake Crypto, called Ripple, which nobody seems to exchange in.

"International Crime Syndicates" may exchange in Crypto, however if you're referring to the recent 'oil hacking', the supposed purchase that took place didn't actually affect the Crypto market, so I'm pressing X to doubt.

I recommend researching into Crypto more, since you don't seem to actually know anything about about it. I'm not trying to be rude, but there's too much false information going around about crypto that comes entirely from people wanting to comment without actually knowing what it is, and it's extremely irksome.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 9, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Like all fiat money ... it's a worthless entity that people agree to accept in exchange for goods or services


Fiat is created by Government, with no supply cap, no utility, is completely centralized, and is only used due to Government force.  

Crypto is secure, decentralized, has a supply cap, and is used voluntarily. 

They are absolutely not the same thing.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 9, 2021)

Godboy said:


> The thing is, the US can ban it from being used within the US banking system, ban US companies from using it and ban it in a whole bunch of other areas, making it extremely hard to spend, which will crush its value. The moment the US decides to end Bitcoin, they can do it pretty easily.


You mean the White Market. People can absolutely exchange in Crypto without the Government's consent, and that's one of the reasons it has utility. You can avoid taxes and regulations, making your exchanges cheaper, and for a wider variety of things. Russia and China have both attempted to ban it, with zero success.

Governments pretending they can control it is amusing at best, and pathetic at worst.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 9, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> I agree. There is too much support in the world for bitcoin to persist. It's valuation will continue to fluctuate wildly, but I don't see it or cryptocurrency in general going away.


Fluctuations are a result of comparing it to fiat, which has no utility outside of what's forced by the Government, and no supply cap.

Although, if we wanted to pretend that the fluctuations matter, those fluctuations are always at a higher value than fiat.

EDIT: Fiat trending downward, as it always has, because all fiat eventually crashes.


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## the other mike (Sep 9, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...


I'm not an economist or a financial wizard but I watch the historical numbers, so I do remember less than 20 years ago, that gold was holding steady at about $300 an ounce......then sometime shortly after 9/11 and the Iraq War and all that good stuff , gold skyrocketed to approaching $2000 by 2008.....

And if I'm not mistaken, gold held steadily above $1500 ever since. Again don't take my word for it but at $1800 and climbing, I don't think it's a great time to buy gold. Like oil and other commodities it could go back down anytime.


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## the other mike (Sep 9, 2021)

skye said:


> Nope.
> 
> Bitcoin shit not for moi.
> 
> I'm old fashioned


Smart lady. Invest in timberland and a place with clean well water, someplace where property taxes aren't too high.


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## fncceo (Sep 9, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> Fiat is created by Government, with no supply cap, no utility, is completely centralized, and is only used due to Government force.
> 
> Crypto is secure, decentralized, has a supply cap, and is used voluntarily.
> 
> They are absolutely not the same thing.



Fiat literally means "let it be done", something created by decree.  Traditionally issued by a government or financial institution, it applies to any non-valuable asset used as a means of exchange.

Bitcoin creators set a supply cap of 21 Million bitcoins ... however, that limit could be rescinded by changing the source code and pushing that change out to service nodes.  Doing so would severely impact the perceived value of Bitcoin, but government issued currencies face the same risk from over issue as well.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm not saying I'm completely obtuse about Bitcoin, I understand SOME things about it, like the places you can keep it.  I plan to keep it in a "personal wallet" which is saved on a flash drive.  Or so they claim.  Which is the safest way, as it can't be altered or stolen that way.

I learn in weird way.  I can be given a ton of info, like being given a box of puzzle pieces.......but if the pieces don't fit together, then it just doesn't make sense to me.  I have to be shown how, at least, some of the pieces fit together......then all the other pieces start connecting in my head.  But if all I'm given is pieces and not shown how they are put together, then I'm not going to "get it".  I might eventually figure it out on my own, but when I'm ready to learn something, I need to learn it THEN, not later.

I don't intend to buy much, only about $100.00 worth.  I plan to buy about $1800.00 in gold Canadian coins, as online info seems to claim Canadian gold is the most pure gold on the market.  I may buy more, or I may invest in some stock somewhere.  

Lots of good points you guys have made, lots of interesting things I can research further..........
BUT........

None of it answers my question(s).


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## Godboy (Sep 9, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> Governments can do jack-shit about Crypto, several have made it completely illegal, and that has done nothing to prevent people from exchanging in it. Most people have multiple Crypto wallets, so that even if they are EXTREMELY careless with their information and the Government somehow gets a hold of it, they can only try to seize a small amount of their Crypto assets(In which case, it's their fault for giving out information that people shouldn't actually have). Secondly, Crypto HAS to be decentralized, so big companies can't actually make it, since their involvement would mean that they MUST be able to control it. Additionally, if a company is intending to actually involve themselves in Crypto, they have to make it taxable, in which case it's not Crypto, because that means it's not secure. Facebook already tried making fake Crypto, called Ripple, which nobody seems to exchange in.
> 
> "International Crime Syndicates" may exchange in Crypto, however if you're referring to the recent 'oil hacking', the supposed purchase that took place didn't actually affect the Crypto market, so I'm pressing X to doubt.
> 
> I recommend researching into Crypto more, since you don't seem to actually know anything about about it. I'm not trying to be rude, but there's too much false information going around about crypto that comes entirely from people wanting to comment without actually knowing what it is, and it's extremely irksome.


China CAN and DID do shit about cryptocurrency, which is why it took a big hit in its value. As more countries join China, it will begin to crumble.

Governments dont need to seize crypto if they simply make it worthless.

Big companies CAN and WILL make it. Youre delusional.

Who said "oil hacking" effected the market? I said they are going to crack down on crypto because of crime, and when they do it will crush its value.

Your thoughts on this subject are silly.


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## dblack (Sep 9, 2021)

Godboy said:


> China CAN and DID do shit about cryptocurrency, which is why it took a big hit in its value. As more countries join China, it will begin to crumble.
> 
> Governments dont need to seize crypto if they simply make it worthless.
> 
> ...


We'll see. Like I said, governments (and their corporations) will fight Bitcoin with everything they can muster. But I think the notion that they can "replace" it misunderstands what crypto is all about. The whole point is to remove the ability of governments and bankers to manipulate the economy through control of currency. A crypto currency controlled by a government, or JP Morgan, won't fly.


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## Mr Natural (Sep 9, 2021)

I have no idea what it is or how it works so I’ll stay far away from it and put my money into something I understand.


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## Godboy (Sep 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> We'll see. Like I said, governments (and their corporations) will fight Bitcoin with everything they can muster. But I think the notion that they can "replace" it misunderstands what crypto is all about. The whole point is to remove the ability of governments and bankers to manipulate the economy through control of currency. A crypto currency controlled by a government, or JP Morgan, won't fly.


Again, if nations ban bitcoin from being used in their banks and businesses, the value of Bitcoin will plummet. If you cant spend it, what is it worth?


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 9, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Fiat literally means "let it be done", something created by decree.  Traditionally issued by a government or financial institution, it applies to any non-valuable asset used as a means of exchange.
> 
> Bitcoin creators set a supply cap of 21 Million bitcoins ... however, that limit could be rescinded by changing the source code and pushing that change out to service nodes.  Doing so would severely impact the perceived value of Bitcoin, but government issued currencies face the same risk from over issue as well.


In this case, non-valuable would be referring to fiat because of its unlimited supply and forced utility. Its centralized nature is what makes it that way, as well as its lack of security. You can TRY to apply the same rules to a Crypto Currency, however it's still inaccurate because Crypto is not centrally controlled, so someone can't just go out and make a bunch of a Crypto, hand them out to people, and inflate it massively, it instead has to be obtained as a proof of work by lending out processing power, or through exchange. 

Point being that you can compare them all you like, but it's apples to oranges.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 9, 2021)

Godboy said:


> China CAN and DID do shit about cryptocurrency, which is why it took a big hit in its value. As more countries join China, it will begin to crumble.
> 
> Governments dont need to seize crypto if they simply make it worthless.
> 
> ...


Ah yes, it traced untraceable Crypto Currency and did... oh wait, if you can't trace it, you can't do anything. A boot-licker walks up to you on the street and demands you hand over your Crypto... "What Crypto?". As much as you seem to like to imply that Government is omnipotent, Crypto is very much like 3D-printed guns in the sense that without psychic super-soldiers, you cannot prevent people from obtaining and exchanging with them. 

They can't make it worthless, the black market will always exist, and will always provide. When fiat currency collapses, like it always does, those who are exchanging in Crypto will be laughing at you while you hold onto your worthless paper.

Your statement that big companies can and will make Crypto kind of proves my point that you don't understand what MAKES a Crypto Currency. If a business controls it, it is not Crypto, so they literally can't unless they're just making it for shits and giggles, and doesn't actually care to profit off of it, and the Government doesn't care that one of their corporations is exchanging in something it can't control or tax. So, stating that they can and will is ignoring the entire point of what a Crypto Currency is.

I mentioned the oil hacking as a reference to international crime organizations, but that appears to have flew over your head. I was pointing out that in that specific instance, I would have been able to see their effect on the market if that exchange actually took place, given its large scale, but didn't see any effect at all. I mentioned it, not because you directly referenced it, but because I thought that this specific incident is why you mentioned International Crime Organizations. Although, regardless of reason, as mentioned above, the idea that Governments can do anything about Crypto is outright laughable.


Godboy said:


> Again, if nations ban bitcoin from being used in their banks and businesses, the value of Bitcoin will plummet. If you cant spend it, what is it worth?


Russia and China both banned Crypto, and people in both geographical locations still exchange in Crypto. You really lack cause for your claim. I also doubt your knowledge on the subject even more, due to you specifically only mentioning Bitcoin, when there are NUMEROUS different kinds of Crypto. 

If you really want an example, the newest Graphics Cards, think it was AMD, is attempting to prevent people from mining with their Graphics cards, and the best they can come up with is requiring something be placed in a specific port in order to use it. Solution? Plug in a dummy one. Yeah, there's no actual way to prevent mining or exchanging, people can and have even done it offline, such as when the power was out in Venezuela.


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## Ridgerunner (Sep 9, 2021)

Angelo said:


> Smart lady. Invest in timberland and a place with clean well water, someplace where property taxes aren't too high.


Wise decision...

Types of Wood - American Hardwood Information Center



Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> Lots of good points you guys have made, lots of interesting things I can research further..........
> BUT........
> 
> None of it answers my question(s).



My son who is doing quite well for himself, his family and Company in the Money World thinks bitcoin is the next best thing since sliced bread... I don't have a clue...


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## EvMetro (Sep 9, 2021)

There are several good crypto trading platforms out there, such as crypto.com , voyager, coin base, binance, etc.  I use several crypto exchanges, since certain crypto currencies are only available on certain platforms.  Right now, I am enjoying the Solana ride.


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## fncceo (Sep 9, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> however it's still inaccurate because Crypto is not centrally controlled, so someone can't just go out and make a bunch of a Crypto, hand them out to people, and inflate it massivelly...



Of course it's centrally controlled.  More centrally controlled than any currency on Earth. The Bitcoin source code and blockchain was created,  presumably, by a single person ... an anonymous person at that.  The value of Bitcon rest solely on the idea that the person who controls that code and blockchain database will stick to the rules he (or she) devised.

There is no reason to believe that they will.  It's just as conceivable that the inventor(s) of Bitcoin created it to destroy global commerce as it is that it was crated to promote global commerce.


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## fncceo (Sep 9, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> Crypto is very much like 3D-printed guns



In that 3D printed guns are totally useless and creating a gun from traditional materials at home is far simpler and more practical.

And yes ... people can steal your Bitcoin ... and never be prosecuted because there is no record that you ever owned it in the first place...


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## dblack (Sep 9, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Of course it's centrally controlled.  More centrally controlled than any currency on Earth. The Bitcoin source code and blockchain was created,  presumably, by a single person ... an anonymous person at that.  The value of Bitcon rest solely on the idea that the person who controls that code and blockchain database will stick to the rules he (or she) devised.
> 
> There is no reason to believe that they will.  It's just as conceivable that the inventor(s) of Bitcoin created it to destroy global commerce as it is that it was crated to promote global commerce.


Any code changes have to be accepted by a majority of the nodes on the network or they won't fly. So, no, it's not controlled in the way you're suggesting.


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## fncceo (Sep 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Any code changes have to be accepted by a majority of the nodes on the network or they won't fly.



The nodes operate autonomously... the person who controls the blockchain controls what is pushed out to them.


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## dblack (Sep 9, 2021)

fncceo said:


> The nodes operate autonomously... the person who controls the blockchain controls what is pushed out to them.


Yep. And they can reject any transactions created with the new code. The only way someone could pull off what you're talking about is if they somehow gained control of more than half the nodes on the network, and even then, the best they could do is fork the network - ie break away and create an alternative currency.


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## fncceo (Sep 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Yep. And they can reject any transactions created with the new code. The only way someone could pull off what you're talking about is if they somehow gained control of more than half the nodes on the network, and even then, the best they could do is fork the network - ie break away and create an alternative currency.



This is what you've been told.  You haven't seen the source code (no one using it has) and you have no idea what it can do. 

You're a missionary for Bitcoin ... you have faith in Bitcoin.  Like any missionary, the more converts you make, the more your stock in your faith rises (in this case, the more users of Bitcoin, the more its potential value of your Bitcoin).

I believe there is only one fate suitable for missionaries of any faith ...


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## dblack (Sep 9, 2021)

fncceo said:


> This is what you've been told.  You haven't seen the source code (no one using it has) and you have no idea what it can do.


Actually, I have. It's completely accessible. It's here: GitHub - bitcoin/bitcoin: Bitcoin Core integration/staging tree



fncceo said:


> You're a missionary for Bitcoin ... you have faith in Bitcoin.  Like any missionary, the more converts you make, the more your stock in your faith rises (in this case, the more users of Bitcoin, the more its potential value).


Nope, I'm not. I don't own any bitcoin at all. I do like its intent though. Government control over currency is huge.

I appreciate your skepticism, but it sounds like you just don't have the facts.


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## Godboy (Sep 9, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> Ah yes, it traced untraceable Crypto Currency and did... oh wait, if you can't trace it, you can't do anything. A boot-licker walks up to you on the street and demands you hand over your Crypto... "What Crypto?". As much as you seem to like to imply that Government is omnipotent, Crypto is very much like 3D-printed guns in the sense that without psychic super-soldiers, you cannot prevent people from obtaining and exchanging with them.
> 
> They can't make it worthless, the black market will always exist, and will always provide. When fiat currency collapses, like it always does, those who are exchanging in Crypto will be laughing at you while you hold onto your worthless paper.
> 
> ...


Youre just saying shit. You arent backing up any of it though with


Idalia Ravenwood said:


> Ah yes, it traced untraceable Crypto Currency and did... oh wait, if you can't trace it, you can't do anything. A boot-licker walks up to you on the street and demands you hand over your Crypto... "What Crypto?". As much as you seem to like to imply that Government is omnipotent, Crypto is very much like 3D-printed guns in the sense that without psychic super-soldiers, you cannot prevent people from obtaining and exchanging with them.
> 
> They can't make it worthless, the black market will always exist, and will always provide. When fiat currency collapses, like it always does, those who are exchanging in Crypto will be laughing at you while you hold onto your worthless paper.
> 
> ...


Strawman argument after strawman argument. Why did you spend so much time on THAT ^ utter horse shit?


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## fncceo (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm sure, if you have any familiarity with software, you're aware of the AN0N app. The app was available on the Google and Apple stores since 2018.

A hypersecure text-based communication app that would allow people to send highly encrypted instant messages whose content couldn't be read or the users identified.  Like cryptocurrency, its a highly useful tool for those engaged in less than legal enterprises.

It was revealed earlier this year that the app was actually created by the FBI who could de-encrypt all the messages in real time and used the app to monitor the communications of thousands of users.

The FBI shared this data with law enforcement in the US and many countries overseas ... resulting in thousands of criminal indictments.


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## dblack (Sep 9, 2021)

fncceo said:


> I'm sure, if you have any familiarity with software, you're aware of the AN0N app. The app was available on the Google and Apple stores since 2018.
> 
> A hypersecure text-based communication app that would allow people to send highly encrypted instant messages whose content couldn't be read or the users identified.  Like cryptocurrency, its a highly useful tool for those engaged in less than legal enterprises.
> 
> It was revealed earlier this year that the app was actually created by the FBI who could de-encrypt all the messages in real time and used the app to monitor the communications of thousands of criminals.


That wasn't open source. The code used by bitcoin is public - anyone and everyone can, and does, scour it for bugs and backdoors.

Again, I appreciate your skepticism - I'm skeptical too, or I'd have my entire retirement in bitcoin. There's no guarantee it will retain its value, and the banksters and governments will be doing everything in their power to crush it. I'm just saying that the concerns you're raising aren't valid.


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## the other mike (Sep 9, 2021)

fncceo said:


> It's just as conceivable that the inventor(s) of Bitcoin created it to destroy global commerce as it is that it was crated to promote global commerce.


A  plot to crash the US dollar is conceivable for sure. If the right players conspired at the right time it could be the perfect storm that would accomplish just that. 

Not like we haven't created some powerful enemies over the past few decades.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Sep 9, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> I recommend researching into Crypto more, since you don't seem to actually know anything about about it. I'm not trying to be rude, but there's too much false information going around about crypto that comes entirely from people wanting to comment without actually knowing what it is, and it's extremely irksome.



Hence my post.


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## Turtlesoup (Sep 10, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...


It's basically a computer math equation.


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## Turtlesoup (Sep 10, 2021)

Angelo said:


> A  plot to crash the US dollar is conceivable for sure. If the right players conspired at the right time it could be the perfect storm that would accomplish just that.
> 
> Not like we haven't created some powerful enemies over the past few decades.


George Soros makes money crashing nations economies....he is looking to destroy the US's economy before he dies as are the Chinese who btw, have their own cyber currency that they hope and probably is more likely to become the world cybercurrency.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 10, 2021)

fncceo said:


> Of course it's centrally controlled.  More centrally controlled than any currency on Earth. The Bitcoin source code and blockchain was created,  presumably, by a single person ... an anonymous person at that.  The value of Bitcon rest solely on the idea that the person who controls that code and blockchain database will stick to the rules he (or she) devised.
> 
> There is no reason to believe that they will.  It's just as conceivable that the inventor(s) of Bitcoin created it to destroy global commerce as it is that it was crated to promote global commerce.


Well, first, it's not controlled. Changes aren't manually made to it, unlike fiat. Secondly, you do understand there's more than one type of Crypto, right? In addition to that, there isn't actually any real way for them to modify what coins people have, since there's no back door. Calling it centralized is straight-up misleading, and kind of betrays that you, again, no nothing about Crypto. 

Okay, maybe you don't realize there's more than one crypto. Yeah, if Bitcoin somehow became defunct, there are so many different kinds of Crypto that it wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 10, 2021)

fncceo said:


> In that 3D printed guns are totally useless and creating a gun from traditional materials at home is far simpler and more practical.
> 
> And yes ... people can steal your Bitcoin ... and never be prosecuted because there is no record that you ever owned it in the first place...
> 
> View attachment 537117


Okay, so I guess you don't know what Cryptography is either. Yeah, no, you'd have to hand out your wallet information like a complete retard for that to conceivably happen. Literally mathematically impossible otherwise. You're way more likely to, say, have your wallet stolen, your credit card hacked, etc. 

Also, 3D Printing guns isn't useless at all, you can print all of the same materials that anyone would use for guns. There are printers for metal, plastic, etc. So, I guess that, in addition to Crypto, you know nothing about 3D Printing and still feel the need to comment.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 10, 2021)

Godboy said:


> Youre just saying shit. You arent backing up any of it though with
> 
> Strawman argument after strawman argument. Why did you spend so much time on THAT ^ utter horse shit?


'I didn't feel like reading your post.'
Anyone can claim that a person made something up or created a strawman, without getting into any specifics. I'll just take the lack of content in your response as an admission that you can't refute my arguments. That's fine, I went into a Crypto discussion fully expecting old people to defend fiat, as if it had any value, while complaining about Crypto just because it's new and they don't understand it.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> 'I didn't feel like reading your post.'
> Anyone can claim that a person made something up or created a strawman, without getting into any specifics. I'll just take the lack of content in your response as an admission that you can't refute my arguments. That's fine, I went into a Crypto discussion fully expecting old people to defend fiat, as if it had any value, while complaining about Crypto just because it's new and they don't understand it.


I was very exhausted from lack of sleep yesterday when i read your response. After rereading your post, i take it back. Those werent strawman arguments,even though i disagree with your premises.


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## iamwhatiseem (Sep 11, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I would suggest against it. Its possible that it could end up getting really big, but its more likely to go the other way. Bitcoin is facing several problems in the future. The first is, large companies are now getting into the cryptocurrency game. The market is going to get saturated with these and Bitcoin will take a big hit for it.
> 
> The other problem Bitcoin has is cyberwarfare. International crime syndicates are demanding bitcoin now as a ransom because, it cant be traced. Thats why governments are going to crack down on it, at which point it will be worth significantly less. The US is already looking into making a national virtual currency. If they go that route, bitcoin is over. China has already banned cryptocurrency.
> 
> I would look at bitcoin as a short term investment only, unless you have cash to spare.


Nothing to add to this.
Well said.


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## Asclepias (Sep 11, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I would suggest against it. Its possible that it could end up getting really big, but its more likely to go the other way. Bitcoin is facing several problems in the future. The first is, large companies are now getting into the cryptocurrency game. The market is going to get saturated with these and Bitcoin will take a big hit for it.


You're a fucking idiot. Please stay in your lane. The more big companies get into it the more people will accept it and the more Bitcoin will be worth.









						Who Accepts Bitcoins in 2022? List of 20+ Major Companies
					

Who accepts bitcoins? A list of the biggest names accepting bitcoin as a currency. From Microsoft to Expedia. Where Can You Spend Bitcoins?



					99bitcoins.com


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## Asclepias (Sep 11, 2021)

I dropped $5k into Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Litecoin about 6 years ago. Last time I checked it had almost tripled.  Still kicking myself for not investing more.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2021)

Asclepias said:


> You're a fucking idiot. Please stay in your lane. The more big companies get into it the more people will accept it and the more Bitcoin will be worth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to ANY subject. Youre nothing more than a moron racist who we mock for our own amusement. That is YOUR lane.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2021)

Asclepias said:


> I dropped $5k into Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Litecoin about 6 years ago. Last time I checked it had almost tripled.  Still kicking myself for not investing more.


Your fantasy world is a very sad thing, but i fucking LOVE IT!! You are the most transparent fool at USMB. You being pathetic makes me laugh.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 11, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I was very exhausted from lack of sleep yesterday when i read your response. After rereading your post, i take it back. Those werent strawman arguments,even though i disagree with your premises.


Oh wow. I appreciate you saying that. I'll admit that I was pretty annoyed that you disregarded all of that with such a brief post, but I think you're pretty cool for changing your mind later on and clarifying. I feel like responding without any content like this is a bit silly, but I also feel like not letting you know that I appreciate you would be doing you a disservice, since most people I've conversed with aren't big enough say what you said.


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## Dekster (Sep 11, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...



Okay well first, don't ask what NFT's are if you want to still believe people make reasonable financial decisions.   As for both, they are largely money laundering schemed sold as ways to get around banks.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 13, 2021)

Dekster said:


> Okay well first, don't ask what NFT's are if you want to still believe people make reasonable financial decisions.   As for both, they are largely money laundering schemed sold as ways to get around banks.


Like the OP I have looked into this a bit and like the OP I am still none the wiser. My nephews are both heavily into this and are huge evangelists for it.

It reminds me of the South Sea Bubble where normally sensible people threw proper money into a scheme that basically produced nothing. The promoters of the scheme were hugely positive about it because their own wealth was linked to encouraging new money into the scheme.

I can buy everything I need with boring old cash. And I can use that cash to divest into other assets. Im not sure that Bitcoin is as versatile. Who do you complain to ? 

The Bubble was 300 years ago but there have been regular occurrences ever since. If it looks too good to be true then it probably is.

Best of luck to anyone in on it but take care.


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## DudleySmith (Sep 13, 2021)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> You mean the White Market. People can absolutely exchange in Crypto without the Government's consent, and that's one of the reasons it has utility. You can avoid taxes and regulations, making your exchanges cheaper, and for a wider variety of things. Russia and China have both attempted to ban it, with zero success.
> 
> Governments pretending they can control it is amusing at best, and pathetic at worst.



The first one to disappear with a couple hundred billion into a rabbit hole somewhere on a Russian server and the whole scam collapses, 'legit' ones or not.


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## DudleySmith (Sep 13, 2021)

Dekster said:


> Okay well first, don't ask what NFT's are if you want to still believe people make reasonable financial decisions.   As for both, they are largely money laundering schemed sold as ways to get around banks.



And run by government intelligence agencies in the first place. It's a nice honey trap for the greedy and stupid.


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## Deplorable Yankee (Sep 13, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...



I kept telling yas buy etheriums


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## Dekster (Sep 13, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> And run by government intelligence agencies in the first place. It's a nice honey trap for the greedy and stupid.



I've seen no evidence of it, but I have thought they would be a hell of a way for the government to track people attempting to circumvent normal financial channels.  I personally think NFT's, which are even more off the beaten path that crypto, has to be a money laundering scheme.  It would be one thing if you got some right to the art or whatever (which occasionally happens), but when you get nothing but a block chain token, surely it is a rigged game


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## Dekster (Sep 13, 2021)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Like the OP I have looked into this a bit and like the OP I am still none the wiser. My nephews are both heavily into this and are huge evangelists for it.
> 
> It reminds me of the South Sea Bubble where normally sensible people threw proper money into a scheme that basically produced nothing. The promoters of the scheme were hugely positive about it because their own wealth was linked to encouraging new money into the scheme.
> 
> ...



Your cat about why he is starving to death if you don't keep your crypto in a secure offline wallet apparently.  I have read also that these huge prices are the hold value.  If you try to sell more than a coin or two at a time, your proceeds will be much lower.


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## Idalia Ravenwood (Sep 13, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> The first one to disappear with a couple hundred billion into a rabbit hole somewhere on a Russian server and the whole scam collapses, 'legit' ones or not.


So, Crypto is stored on the blockchain you're using. In other words, it's not stored in "a server", but a vast network. What you're describing is literally impossible. That's why when I responded to the previous poster suggesting that was a thing that could happen, I said "if that were possible". 

If you want to talk about scams, we could talk about fiat, and how nobody would want to exchange in it if the Government weren't threatening people into using it. Case in point; The Government stealing people's gold so that they'd use their monopoly money. It can be stolen, traced, inflated, manipulated, and without Government force, it has no utility to speak of. Its value decreases over time, it collapses... like the Zimbabwean dollar. 

Point being, any criticism you have towards Crypto applies to fiat, times a thousand, and is usually projection besides.


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## DudleySmith (Sep 14, 2021)

Dekster said:


> I've seen no evidence of it, but I have thought they would be a hell of a way for the government to track people attempting to circumvent normal financial channels.  I personally think NFT's, which are even more off the beaten path that crypto, has to be a money laundering scheme.  It would be one thing if you got some right to the art or whatever (which occasionally happens), but when you get nothing but a block chain token, surely it is a rigged game



The art market is indeed a long running scam, both for money laundering and tax dodging via ridiculous valuations on art pieces being donated to frauds like MOMA. Good catch on the NFT thing; it's already been used in several high dollar frauds already.


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## skews13 (Oct 6, 2021)

Godboy said:


> The thing is, the US can ban it from being used within the US banking system, ban US companies from using it and ban it in a whole bunch of other areas, making it extremely hard to spend, which will crush its value. The moment the US decides to end Bitcoin, they can do it pretty easily.



Not going to happen. To many big players own it.


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## dblack (Nov 30, 2021)

skews13 said:


> Not going to happen. To many big players own it.


I think they may have succeeded in creating digital gold. Short of complete meltdown (no internet, no nodes processing transactions) bitcoin is here to stay.

Of course, I could be wrong.


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## Larsky (Nov 30, 2021)




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## dblack (Nov 30, 2021)

Larsky said:


> View attachment 570074


Bitcoin isn't destabilizing us. It's just showing how unstable we really are.


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## justoffal (Dec 1, 2021)

Asclepias said:


> Since your friend couldn't explain it to you and the book was a waste, all you need to know is that its like anything else you invest in. It's worth what people believe it's worth.  The security of the transactions are way better than anything else and it leaves a digital trail. The block chain, encryption, security, and algorithms that go into it will just confuse you more.


The blockchain linears have become so complex that it is no longer possible to mine them competitively with anything but an industrial machine that uses on the average about 3,000 Watts of 220v current.

I do see a lot of support for virtual currency that's not manipulated by a central bank and one that depends on community input to keep it going and make it valuable. But I do not see support for an ever-increasing energy consumption that will eventually become so expensive that it will outmatch the value of the currency itself.


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## Opie (Dec 2, 2021)

There are only 21 million Bitcoins that can ever be mined. if the dollar fails which it will think of all the millionaires plus billionaire that will be fighting to own the 21 million which will only drive the price up as you seen last year during Covid. Took money out of stocks and put into Crypto


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## candycorn (Dec 2, 2021)

Crypto is the Scientology of currencies and investments. 

The money in your wallet is backed by the full faith and credit of the government that issues it.  Crypto is backed by almost nothing.


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## dblack (Dec 2, 2021)

candycorn said:


> The money in your wallet is backed by the full faith and credit of the government that issues it.  Crypto is backed by almost nothing.


LOL - that's funny stuff right there.


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## Captain Caveman (Dec 3, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...


This link explains what cryptocurrency is -









						Cryptocurrency: What is it and how does it work? - CBBC Newsround
					

Cryptocurrency has been increasing in popularity in recent years, but what exactly is it and how does it work?




					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Deplorable Yankee (Dec 3, 2021)

Bitcoins in 56 k per coin

Etheriums we're all waiting on 2

Trading in the range 4500.00......told yas lol


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## EvMetro (Dec 3, 2021)

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Bitcoins in 56 k per coin
> 
> Etheriums we're all waiting on 2
> 
> Trading in the range 4500.00......told yas lol


Stake some CRO...


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 4, 2021)

Bitcoin just dropped $10,000 in value.

And for no apparent reason.


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## CrusaderFrank (Dec 4, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I would suggest against it. Its possible that it could end up getting really big, but its more likely to go the other way. Bitcoin is facing several problems in the future. The first is, large companies are now getting into the cryptocurrency game. The market is going to get saturated with these and Bitcoin will take a big hit for it.
> 
> The other problem Bitcoin has is cyberwarfare. International crime syndicates are demanding bitcoin now as a ransom because, it cant be traced. Thats why governments are going to crack down on it, at which point it will be worth significantly less. The US is already looking into making a national virtual currency. If they go that route, bitcoin is over. China has already banned cryptocurrency.
> 
> I would look at bitcoin as a short term investment only, unless you have cash to spare.


Governments will use quantum computing to eradicate Bitcoin, it's an existential threat to central banks


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## iamwhatiseem (Dec 4, 2021)

Bitcoin doesn't exist. But it has value because people are willing to invest in "nothing" -  if they can make a profit off of someone else who is willing to buy that nothing at a higher price. 
You could just as easily call it fairy dust.
Which, BTW, is how dogecoin happened. Some guy started it as a joke. It now has a market value of $54 Billion. A joke.
There is a lesson in that.
   Bitcoin is likely to collapse at some point. It has zero intrinsic value. It's value is wholly dependent on people willing to play the game of buying nothing.
As the world markets have become more volatile and inflation is beyond the point of scary... the first thing investors will do is remove assets that have no actual value.

 And that is why Bitcoin fell 7% in one day.


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## Rodimus (Dec 9, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> I've ready the "For Dummies" information, I've watched the Youtube videos, I've read several online sites about Bitcoin information..............
> 
> But I'm not a banker or financier, so none of this stuff has been explained to me where I can understand it............at ground level.
> 
> ...


i think you should just stick to buying gold and not bitcoin. just like the stock market is a scam to make wall street tycoons rich, if you invest in bitcoin, you are just giving your money to criminals with nothing in return.


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## candycorn (Jan 11, 2022)

‘Looking Ugly’: Crypto Market Crash Intensifies After $300 Billion Sell-Off—How Low Can Bitcoin Prices Go?
					

Bitcoin fell below $40,000 for the first time since September on Monday.




					www.forbes.com


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## the other mike (Jan 11, 2022)

Rodimus said:


> i think you should just stick to buying gold ....



The problem with gold is that only around 20 years ago, it was $300 an ounce.....since 9/11 and the wars in the ME, gold has hovered between $1500 and $2000 an ounce.

Just saying. You can invest in it, hoping it will keep jumping - some say it will go to $10K an oz , but you don't know if it could go back down .....if anyone knows it's the wealthiest speculators.

It would be interesting to know where most of the gold really is right now.


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## Ridgerunner (Jan 11, 2022)

the other mike said:


> where most of the gold really is right now











						Which Countries Own the Most Gold? | SchiffGold
					






					schiffgold.com


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## the other mike (Jan 11, 2022)

Ridgerunner said:


> Which Countries Own the Most Gold? | SchiffGold
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When was Fort Knox last audited ?


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## Ridgerunner (Jan 11, 2022)

Do they have DuckDuckgo.com in the secret city under the Airport?


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## Godboy (May 17, 2022)

Asclepias said:


> You're a fucking idiot. Please stay in your lane. The more big companies get into it the more people will accept it and the more Bitcoin will be worth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hows that Bitcoin working out for you? You are ALWAYS wrong!


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## Turtlesoup (May 17, 2022)

Idalia Ravenwood said:


> You mean the White Market. People can absolutely exchange in Crypto without the Government's consent, and that's one of the reasons it has utility. You can avoid taxes and regulations, making your exchanges cheaper, and for a wider variety of things. Russia and China have both attempted to ban it, with zero success.
> 
> Governments pretending they can control it is amusing at best, and pathetic at worst.


They can control it and will---look at China who now forbids their people from buying Bitcoin.  

There will be a cybercurrency---but it will be controlled by the one world order eventually.   Bitcoin ain't it.


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## DudleySmith (May 17, 2022)

the other mike said:


> The problem with gold is that only around 20 years ago, it was $300 an ounce.....since 9/11 and the wars in the ME, gold has hovered between $1500 and $2000 an ounce.
> 
> Just saying. You can invest in it, hoping it will keep jumping - some say it will go to $10K an oz , but you don't know if it could go back down .....if anyone knows it's the wealthiest speculators.
> 
> It would be interesting to know where most of the gold really is right now.



It is still the only truly global currency, and it is indeed a good measure of the real worth of paper money relative to its value, and it will remain so for the foreseeable future. It doesn't go up or down much at all, outside some short speculative bubble in retail prices here and there.

Most of it is stashed in govt. treasuries, and they're still buying, which is why it's retailing between 1600 and 2000 per oz. India, the Pac Rim, Africa, the ME, Russia, and South America deal in it extensively.

It is an excellent judge of real inflation as well. From $35-$37 an oz. in 1970 to current wholesale prices in dollars it measure it quite accurately


----------

