# General energy news



## ScienceRocks

New electric cars? New power plants??? Wind farms, solar farms, nuclear plants??? New products.  Post them! Post news on the Chevy volt, Telsa s, x, etc. 

This isn't so much for the newest innovation in energy tech as the other thread is all about that.  

*Cree Releases Highest Efficacy Color LEDs, & More&#8230;*


June 27, 2013  Zachary Shahan	



> XPE2_Warm_medCree, a leader in LEDs, recently announced the commercial availability of XLamp® XP-E2 color LEDs. According to the company, XP-E2 color LEDs produce up to 88% higher maximum light output than competing high-power color LEDs.



Read more at Cree Releases Highest Efficacy Color LEDs, & More... | CleanTechnica


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## ScienceRocks

*Volkswagen Passat TDI scores non-hybrid world record with trip average of 78MPG*

Volkswagen Passat TDI scores non-hybrid world record with trip average of 78MPG - SlashGear
Brittany Hillen, Jun 27th 2013 Discuss [1]	


> When someone talks about high gas mileage, most consumers think of hybrid vehicles and the generous MPG ratings they offer. That isn&#8217;t always the case, however, as Volkswagen proved this month with its VW Passat TDI Clean Diesel passenger car. The car began its trip through the 48 lower US states on June 7, and ended its journey earlier this week, having traveled 8,122 miles on just under 105 gallons of gas.
> 
> In doing so, the auto maker earned a Guinness World Record under &#8220;Lowest fuel consumption &#8212; 48 U.S. states for a non-hybrid car,&#8221; a record that was previously held at 67.9MPG. The highest rating achieved by a hybrid vehicle in its own category was 64MPG, quite a bit lower than both. The manual six-speed version of this car has an EPA estimated rating of 43MPG on the highway.


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## RGR

TDI's rock. If it weren't for that VW label on the front, it would be worth buying. Maybe when the Mazda diesel comes out this fall it will be worth the plunge.


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## ScienceRocks

*The Mayor of Indianapolis Is Electrifying his City *
The Mayor of Indianapolis Is Electrifying his City : Compass


> Ever wonder how fueling a gasoline car compares in cost to fueling a plug-in electric car? At this week's annual Electric Drive Transportation Association (EDTA) conference in Washington, D.C., the Department of Energy&#8217;s David Danielson announced a handy new web tool called eGallon that allows you to do just that. The site shows that on average in the U.S., it costs $3.65 per gallon in gasoline to fuel a car and the equivalent of only $1.14 per gallon to fuel a car with electricity.


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## ScienceRocks

*World's first hybrid wind/current generator could generate double the power* 


World's first hybrid wind/current generator could generate double the power : TreeHugger


> Combining a three-bladed Darrieus turbine on top, a Savonius turbine underneath, and a generator in between, the SKWID power generation concept is claimed to be the world's first hybrid system "capable of maximizing the harvesting of ocean energy from wind and current".
> 
> The SKWID, from the Japanese company Mitsui Ocean Development & Engineering Company (MODEC), is designed to capitalize on the energy potential available both in the winds above the ocean, and in the currents flowing beneath the waves. The device uses an omnidirectional Darrieus wind turbine sitting 47 meters above the sea on one end of a vertical shaft, with a different type of omnidirectional turbine design, a 15 meter diameter Savonius, spinning at the other end under the surface.


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## ScienceRocks

*1776-2012: Main sources of energy in the U.S. since the first Independence Day*

1776-2012: Main sources of energy in the U.S. since the first Independence Day : TreeHugger



> 4th of July edition!
> Birthdays are a good time to look back and reflect on the road traveled thus far. On July 4th, the U.S. is celebrating one more year, so why not look back at how the country's energy usage has evolved over time? On the graph above, based on data compiled by the U.S. Energy Information Administration, you can clearly see all the major trends of the past 2+ centuries.



Like to see Nuclear, renewables and hydro go up!


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## ScienceRocks

*EU Parliament Approves Backloading Fix To Cap And Trade Market*


July 3, 2013  Silvio Marcacci	


> Big news for global carbon markets today, as the European Parliament voted to approve a &#8220;backloading&#8221; plan to reduce the glut of unsold carbon allowances in the EU&#8217;s Emissions Trading System (ETS).


Read more at EU Parliament Approves Backloading Fix To Cap And Trade Market


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## ScienceRocks

*1.445 GW More Geothermal For The Philippines By 2030*


July 3, 2013  Jake Richardson	




> The Philippines Energy Department is planning to grow their total geothermal energy capacity another 1.445 GW by 2030. They already have an installed capacity of 1.848 GW, so the additional gigawatts would be a 75% increase. Their Energy Department website says employing geothermal has saved billions of dollars since the 1970s, because they did not not have to purchase as much foreign fuel oil to run power generators.


Read more at 1.445 GW More Geothermal For The Philippines By 2030 | CleanTechnica


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## ScienceRocks

*UK Prime Minister Launches World&#8217;s Largest Offshore Wind Farm*


July 4, 2013  Timothy B. Hurst	




> London Array Turbines smallIt&#8217;s been a long time in the making &#8212; 12 years to be precise &#8212; but the London Array, the world&#8217;s largest offshore wind farm, is officially up and running. At a launch event today in Margate, Kent, UK Prime Minister David Cameron called the project &#8220;A win for Kent&#8230; a win for renewable energy&#8230; and most of all, a very big win for Britain.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;We are making this country incredibly attractive to investment,&#8221; Prime Minister Cameron added.



Read more at UK Prime Minister Launches World's Largest Offshore Wind Farm | CleanTechnica


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## ScienceRocks

*&#8220;Stella&#8221; is first solar-powered family car, will race in World Solar Challenge*

?Stella? is first solar-powered family car, will race in World Solar Challenge - SlashGear


> Students at the Eindhoven University of Technology have developed a solar-powered car they call &#8220;Stella,&#8221; which is claimed to be the first-ever family car that runs off the sun. The vehicle is designed to seat four individuals, and utilizes power drawn from the sun via solar panels that are located on its roof. We have a video of it in action after the break.
> 
> As you can see in the image above, the car is very long, as well as short in terms of roof height, tapering down to a thin tail for aerodynamics. According to the students who created it, Stella is capable of traveling up to a distance of 600 kilometers, something that will be put to the test in Australia&#8217;s World Solar Challenge, which is a 3,000 kilometer race that starts in Darwin and goes all the way to Adelaide.






> &#8220;Stella&#8221; is an &#8220;energy-positive car&#8221; (reportedly the first in the world). It has space for four people as well as a trunk. It has a range of 600 kilometers (373 miles) and can go up to 120 kilometers per hour (75 mph).


Read more at http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/06/solar-powered-car-for-families/#9VJWA1viWZVKRLRV.99 

I wonder if such could have a battery system for night time?


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## Mr. H.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLQRKnZ2cK8]STELLLAAA!!! - YouTube[/ame]


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## ScienceRocks

How do you think about the solar car?


*High School Girl Invents Flashlight Powered By Body Heat*


July 6, 2013  Nicholas Brown	


> I remember when I powered a small electric motor with heat (and a good amount of it) using a thermoelectric module. However, I had a hard time achieving more than 1 volt. A 15-year-old girl in tenth grade from Victoria, British Columbia, Canada recently got around this problem using a circuit that she discovered on the internet. She was able to power a flashlight/torch that produced 5 lumens of light per square foot (5 foot candles) using only heat from the human hand, which could be useful.



Read more at High School Student Invents Torch Powered By The Human Hand


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## ScienceRocks

*Pakistan approves budget for two 1100 MW China built nuclear reactors and Vietnam progresses on discussions for their planned nuclear reactors*



> Pakistan's Cabinet Executive Committee approved Thursday setting up two 1,100 megawatt nuclear power plants at the Karachi coast, Finance Minister Ishaq Dar said. Budget documents had revealed the setting up of only one 1,100 megawatt coastal power plant at Karachi, with Chinese assistance.
> 
> 
> 2. Vietnam is considering offers from established nuclear countries as it seeks to introduce nuclear energy technology.
> 
> The project is pursued by the JINED consortium including METI, nine utilities (led by Chubu, Kansai & Tokyo Electric Power Company) and three manufacturers (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Toshiba and Hitachi). Part of the offer is finance and insurance for up to 85% of the total cost of the Vinh Hai project, which could include four large reactors.
> 
> Separately, Vietnam is progressing a Russian offer based on a four-unit VVER-1000 plant at Phuoc Dinh, also in Ninh Thuan province. No firm dates for construction have been set for either project and they could progress in parallel, seeing full operation of all units in the late 2020s.



Pakistan approves budget for two 1100 MW China built nuclear reactors and Vietnam progresses on discussions for their planned nuclear reactors

Well, Pakistan seems to think more logical then America. lol


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## ScienceRocks

*Concentrated Solar Set To Change How We Think About Energy Sources*


July 6, 2013  Giles Parkinson	



> The 110MW Crescent Dunes Solar Energy Plant, a concentrated solar power project due to be completed in Nevada early next year, will not just be the largest solar power tower plant with fully integrated energy storage built &#8211; it could also challenge the way the world thinks about renewable energy. Or even energy sources in general.
> 
> The $1 billion Crescent Dunes project near Tonopah in the Central Nevada Desert, some 300kms north of Las Vegas, was developed by the Santa Monica-based SolarReserve and features the company&#8217;s market leading molten salt power tower technology with fully integrated energy storage.
> 
> What makes it unique and a potential game changer in the electricity industry is the flexibility and dispatchability of its power, meaning that it can deliver electricity whenever it is needed by customers; and its cost, which already beats diesel, is competitive with new build coal and gas generation.
> 
> The Crescent Dunes facility will have 10 hours of molten salt storage, which on average will allow it to deliver 110MW of baseload capacity to Las Vegas between the hours of 12 noon and midnight each day, when the city needs it most to power the lights and air conditioning of its casinos and entertainment palaces. It has signed a 25-year power contract with NV Energy, Nevada&#8217;s largest utility, to  do that.



Read more at Concentrated Solar Set To Change How We Think About Energy Sources | CleanTechnica


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## ScienceRocks

*SolePower charges smartphones by harnessing walking power*

Looking to solve the issue of a dead phone battery and no power outlet in sight, a new invention on Kickstarter says it can capture, generate, and store power within a shoe insole.

SolePower charges smartphones by harnessing walking power | Cutting Edge - CNET News


> What if people could charge their phones by going for a walk? No electricity, no power outlets, no more dealing with dead phone batteries. This idea actually isn't too farfetched.
> 
> A new Kickstarter campaign is focused on getting funding for a power generating shoe insert that lets users charge portable devices -- like smartphones, music players, and GPS devices -- while they walk.
> 
> The device is called SolePower and is currently in an alpha prototype phase. The company is looking to raise $50,000 by July 18 to start working toward finalizing a mass producible product.
> 
> SolePower founders Matthew Staton and Hahna Alexander came up with the idea as mechanical engineering students at Carnegie Mellon University.
> 
> "We initially designed SolePower to simply light an LED on the shoe so students walking to and from campus at night would be more visible," Stanton told CNET. "After we developed a proof of concept prototype for the class we realized that there were many more applications for the device."


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## ScienceRocks

*US Interior Department Approces 500 MW Arizona Wind Farm*


July 8, 2013  Joshua S Hill	



> The US Department of the Interior announced on Wednesday that they had approved a plan to build a 500 MW wind project in Arizona. Upon completion, the wind farm will provide enough electricity to the grid to power up to 175,000 houses.
> 
> The announcement comes in the wake of President Obamas climate action plan, a comprehensive set of plans and actions to reduce US and global carbon pollution and energy inefficiency.
> 
> The Arizonan wind project, known as the Mohave County Wind Farm, was proposed by BP Wind Energy North America, and will see 243 wind turbines erected on Federal lands approximately 40 miles northwest of Kingman. The decision paves the way for the provision of right-of-way grants for the use of approximately 35,000 acres of BLM (Bureau of Land Management) managed land as well as another 2,800 of Bureau of Reclamation land. The development includes a 1.2 mile buffer zone to protect nearby nesting locations for golden eagles and an assurance that no turbine will be erected within a quarter-mile of private property.



Read more at US Interior Department Approces 500 MW Arizona Wind Farm | CleanTechnica


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## ScienceRocks

*BMW Board Member: EV Driving Range To Double Within 5 Years*


July 8, 2013  Tim Tyler	


> Editor&#8217;s Note: BMW has been a little late to the electric car game. Or maybe it&#8217;s coming in right on time. One might think BMW isn&#8217;t that bullish on electric cars since its first electric car, the BMW i3, is yet to be released (it&#8217;s coming on July 29). However, at least one BMW board member is confident that EV driving range is going to double within the next five years. That would be a game-changer within the automobile industry. Here&#8217;s more from EV Obsession:
> 
> Recently, at a conference in Paris, BMW board member Ian Robertson made a claim that, within 5 years, EVs would double their single-charge driving range.
> 
> This statement came alongside the soon to be released BMW i3 EV. While some feel this claim was just to get publicity for the upcoming i3 release, others are not so sure.
> 
> If this advancement would happen within 5 years, that would give a typical EV a range of 150 &#8211;200 miles from a single charge. This would definitely be a game changer for the EV market. Having an extended driving range has already shown to have a huge impact on EV sales. For example, part of Tesla&#8217;s success can be attributed to the Model S and its EPA estimated 265-mile single-charge range.


Read more at BMW Board Member: EV Driving Range To Double Within 5 Years | CleanTechnica


*40% Drop In EV Battery Prices From 2010 To 2012*


July 8, 2013  Zachary Shahan	




> Following up on the article we just published about a BMW board member&#8217;s bullish projections for EV battery range, here&#8217;s a positive find on EV battery price trends from EV Obsession:
> 
> One of the hardest and most critical factors to project when it comes to electric vehicles is the price of batteries, which make up a huge portion of an EV&#8217;s price. However, the trend is pretty obvious.
> 
> As this graph below shows, EV battery prices have fallen 40% since 2010. Regarding the future, BMW board member Ian Robertson says, &#8220;in the next three to four years there will be more progress in battery development than in the previous 100 years.&#8221; Here&#8217;s a Bloomberg New Energy Finance graph on recent and projected trends:








Read more at http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/08...prices-from-2010-to-2012/#MOt1Cm0UJ6wbWTTB.99


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## Old Rocks

At least double, possibly at half the price, and twice the longevity. That is where the current research is headed. As the EV comes to be much more common, and head on price competative with the ICE up front, and at the same time the price of home solar continues to go down, even as efficiencies go up, there will come a time when owning an ICE is considered a sign of stupidity.


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## ScienceRocks

*US Passes 10 GW Installed Solar PV Capacity Milestone*


July 9, 2013  Silvio Marcacci	



> America&#8217;s solar market has broken through the clouds to shine as only the fourth nation to pass the 10 gigawatts (GW) installed solar capacity milestone.
> 
> Fast-growing solar photovoltaic (PV) deployment levels since 2010 pushed the US into the ultra-exclusive 10 GW club, reports NPD Solarbuzz in the latest North America PV Market Quarterly report.
> 
> &#8220;The US has now joined an elite group of maturing solar PV markets,&#8221; said Christopher Sunsong of NPD Solarbuzz. &#8220;Only Germany, Italy, and China have more installed PV capacity than the US.&#8221;



Read more at US Passes 10GW Installed Solar PV Capacity Milestone


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## ScienceRocks

*World's biggest offshore wind farm with 300 turbines will be built in Lincolnshire *



> Work on the Triton Knoll site can now begin after the £3.6bn project was given the go ahead
> It will dwarf Britain's current largest offshore facility unveiled last week by David Cameron
> 
> When complete the windfarm will generate enough power for 820,000 homes



Read more: World's biggest offshore wind farm with 300 turbines will be built in Lincolnshire | Mail Online 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

1.2 gw of electricy!!!!


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## Mr. H.

Matthew said:


> *World's biggest offshore wind farm with 300 turbines will be built in Lincolnshire *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Work on the Triton Knoll site can now begin after the £3.6bn project was given the go ahead
> It will dwarf Britain's current largest offshore facility unveiled last week by David Cameron
> 
> When complete the windfarm will generate enough power for 820,000 homes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: World's biggest offshore wind farm with 300 turbines will be built in Lincolnshire | Mail Online
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
> 
> 1.2 gw of electricy!!!!
Click to expand...

Those poor birds...


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## ScienceRocks

*Solar Modules 20% Lower Than Last Year*

Solar Modules 20% Lower Than Last Year | CleanTechnica
July 23, 2013  Giles Parkinson 



> Two of the key metrics that will be watched closely in the global solar industry reporting season that has just commenced are the price of panels sold, and the cost of manufacture. The difference is what the industry calls the margin.
> 
> For the past few years, the surplus of capacity meant that margins were mostly negative, but the rebalancing of the market, as some manufacturers go out of business, and the Chinese, Japanese and US markets drive strong growth, mean most manufacturers are in positive territory.


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## ScienceRocks

*US Halts Mining In Designated Solar Energy Zones*


July 25, 2013  Jo Borrás 

US Halts Mining In Designated Solar Energy Zones | CleanTechnica


> The US Department of the Interior has put a stop to new mining claims across 17 newly-defined solar energy zones, further emphasizing the Obama administrations commitment to clean, sustainable energy.
> 
> The 17 no mining sites are spread across the western states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah. Each was selected as being an area of public land highly suited for solar developments thanks to high irradiation, access to planned and existing transmission lines, and the ability install large solar arrays with a minimal biological, cultural, and historical or landmark impact.


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## Mr. H.

Matthew said:


> *US Halts Mining In Designated Solar Energy Zones*
> 
> 
> July 25, 2013  Jo Borrás
> 
> US Halts Mining In Designated Solar Energy Zones | CleanTechnica
> 
> 
> 
> The US Department of the Interior has put a stop to new mining claims across 17 newly-defined solar energy zones, further emphasizing the Obama administrations commitment to clean, sustainable energy.
> 
> The 17 no mining sites are spread across the western states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah. Each was selected as being an area of public land highly suited for solar developments thanks to high irradiation, access to planned and existing transmission lines, and the ability install large solar arrays with a minimal biological, cultural, and historical or landmark impact.
Click to expand...


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## ScienceRocks

*Charge to go: The EP Tender portable EV range extender*


Charge to go: The EP Tender portable EV range extender


> While electric vehicle charging networks continue to evolve and expand, there is another approach to reducing range anxiety: taking the charger with you. The EP Tender range-extender system is designed to give an extra lease of life to EV batteries with the addition of a trailer mounted generator system.
> 
> Applying the same principle that we've seen in the ebuggy and Rinspeed Dock+Go concepts, the EP Tender portable charging system is essentially a mobile commercial generator that's been pared down for consumer use. The 200 kg (440 lb) system utilizes a trailer mounted 600 cc engine that resides in standby mode until a low charge signal is received from the vehicle. While the vehicle is being driven, the tethered trailer activates the generator, which in turn recharges the EV battery. The idea is that this charge on the go system could negate the need for lengthy charging stops.


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## ScienceRocks

*BMW i3 Officially Unveiled (27-Minute Video From NYC, Beijing, & London World Premiere)*

This article was first published on EV Obsession.



> After years of development and countless teasers, the commercial-production BMW i3 has finally been unveiled. The BMW i3 electric car was simultaneously unveiled in London, New York, and Beijing yesterday.


CleanTechnica | Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More.

Interesting looking car


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## ScienceRocks

*$23 Million Energy Storage Research Center Launched In New York State*




> New York State is making an aggressive push to expand smart grid and renewable energy, and now a public-private project could combine the two through energy storage innovations.
> 
> New York&#8217;s Battery and Energy Storage Technology Consortium (NY-BEST) and Dutch company DNV Kema have announced a $23 million joint investment to build the Battery and Energy Storage Technology (BEST) testing and commercialization center in Rochester, New York.
> 
> Construction has already begun on the BEST center in an abandoned section of the former Eastman Kodak business park, and when complete, it will boast 17,000 square feet of world-class testing and commercialization facilities designed to accelerate commercial deployment of energy storage technologies.



CleanTechnica | Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More.


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## ScienceRocks

*Clip-on wind turbine aims to supplement solar panels*



> Crowdfunding has come to the small wind generation field with an Indiegogo campaign intended for an interesting target niche: a small wind generator designed to be clipped onto solar panels. According to its pitch, Cleantec Wind has not only created a prototype, but calculated possible energy returns, targeted a price point and lined up suppliers for initial deliveries and has turned to Indeigogo to get his small startup off the launch pad.



Clip-on wind turbine aims to supplement solar panels


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## ScienceRocks

*Deepwater Wind Wins America&#8217;s First Offshore Wind Competitive Lease Sale*



> America&#8217;s nascent offshore wind industry cleared a major hurdle yesterday, successfully holding the first-ever competitive lease sale for offshore wind energy development.
> 
> Deepwater Wind was declared the provisional winner in the Interior Department&#8217;s auction of two leases, totaling 164,750 acres roughly 9 miles offshore Rhode Island and Massachusetts, with the potential for 3,395 megawatts (MW) of wind power.
> 
> Deepwater&#8217;s $3.8 million bid wins it the right to build the Deepwater Wind Energy Center (DWEC), a 1,000MW utility-scale wind farm with 200 turbines and a regional transmission system linking to New York State and southeastern New England. Construction is expected to start as early as 2017, and power production could begin as early as 2018.



Read more at CleanTechnica | Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More.


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## ScienceRocks

*Growth Of Global Solar & Wind Energy Continues To Outpace Other Technologies*



> Global use of solar and wind energy continued to grow significantly in 2012. Solar power consumption increased by 58 percent, to 93 terrawatt-hours (TWh), and the use of wind power increased by 18 percent, to 521 TWh. Although hydropower remains the world&#8217;s leading renewable energy, solar and wind continue to dominate investment in new renewable capacity and are quickly becoming the highest-profile renewable energy sources, write Worldwatch staff in the Institute&#8217;s latest Vital Signs Online trend.
> 
> Global solar and wind energy capacities continued to grow even though new investments in these energy sources declined during 2012. Global investment in solar energy in 2012 was $140.4 billion, an 11 percent decline from 2011, and wind investment was down 10 percent, to $80.3 billion.But due to lower costs for both technologies, total installed capacities grew sharply.
> 
> Solar photovoltaic (PV) installed capacity grew by 41 percent in 2012, reaching 100 gigawatts (GW). Over the past five years alone, installed PV capacity grew by 900 percent from 10 GW in 2007. The countries with the most installed PV capacity today are Germany (32.4 GW), Italy (16.4 GW), the United States (7.2 GW), and China (7.0 GW).



Read more at CleanTechnica | Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More.


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## ScienceRocks

Electric Cars Are Doing Better Than Hybrids Did in Their First Three Years | MIT Technology Review

Advances in Electric cars


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## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> *US Halts Mining In Designated Solar Energy Zones*
> 
> 
> July 25, 2013  Jo Borrás
> 
> US Halts Mining In Designated Solar Energy Zones | CleanTechnica
> 
> 
> 
> The US Department of the Interior has put a stop to new mining claims across 17 newly-defined solar energy zones, further emphasizing the Obama administrations commitment to clean, sustainable energy.
> 
> The 17 no mining sites are spread across the western states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah. Each was selected as being an area of public land highly suited for solar developments thanks to high irradiation, access to planned and existing transmission lines, and the ability install large solar arrays with a minimal biological, cultural, and historical or landmark impact.
Click to expand...


WTF?? This is the superior Democrat science that RDean raves about??? 

So if a billion tons of rare earth materials were to be discovered in one of those zones, we should just STFU and be dependent on China to make our wind turbines, and EVs??? 

What do they think GOES INTO making those solar panels anyway?? Geeeezzz... the stupidity and arrogance is astounding.. 

A decade more of this "revolution" and we are un-retrivievely DOOMED...


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## ScienceRocks

*New Membrane Could Be Game Changer For Fuel Cell Vehicles*


> The last time we caught up with 3M, the expert in all things sticky was busy at work on a federal grant to improve solar energy technologies, so it&#8217;s no surprise to find the company charging ahead on other clean tech projects. In the latest endeavor, 3M has just received a $3 million grant from the Department of Energy to develop a new fuel cell membrane that is more efficient and durable than current technology. That doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean a duct tape fuel cell is in our future, but 3M already has a track record in the fuel cell field and considerable experience in thin films under its belt.
> 
> Also getting in on the new round of funding is the Colorado School of Mines, which will also be developing a new low cost, high performance fuel cell membrane under a $1.5 million grant.
> 
> If these two R&D projects bear fruit, they are bound to heat up the battery vs. fuel cell debate, as the two platforms vie for a share of the electric vehicle market.



Read more at CleanTechnica | Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More.


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## ScienceRocks

*New Method For Producing &#8216;Electronic Ink&#8217; &#8212; Solar Cells As Cheap As Roof Shingles In The Near-Future?*



> A new method for producing &#8220;electronic ink&#8221; &#8212; a specialized form of ink from non-toxic nanometer-sized crystals of silicon &#8212; has been developed by researchers from the University of Minnesota&#8217;s College of Science and Engineering and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. The researchers say that their new technology brings the possibility of solar-cells-as-cheap-as-roof-shingles one step closer to reality, as well as the means to lower the production costs of a variety of other electronics.
> 
> &#8220;Imagine a world where every child in a developing country could learn reading and math from a touch pad that costs less than $10 or home solar cells that finally cost less than fossil fuels,&#8221; stated Uwe Kortshagen, a University of Minnesota mechanical engineering professor and one of the authors of a new paper detailing the research.
> 
> The reason that the electronic ink is so valuable, is that the &#8216;ink&#8217; can be used to, essentially, &#8220;print out&#8221; electronics &#8212; potentially a much cheaper way to produce many commonly used electronic devices.



Read more at CleanTechnica | Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More.


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## ScienceRocks

*Graphene-based supercapacitor a step closer to commerical reality*



> Graphene-based supercapacitors have already proven the equal of conventional supercapacitors &#8211; in the lab. But now researchers at Melbourne&#8217;s Monash University claim to have developed of a new scalable and cost-effective technique to engineer graphene-based supercapacitors that brings them a step closer to commercial development.
> 
> With their almost indefinite lifespan and ability to recharge in seconds, supercapacitors have tremendous energy-storage potential for everything from portable electronics, to electric vehicles and even large-scale renewable energy plants. But the drawback of existing supercapacitors has been their low energy density of around 5 to 8 Wh/liter, which means they either have to be exceedingly large or recharged frequently.
> 
> Professor Dan Li and his team at Monash University&#8217;s Department of Materials Engineering has created a graphene-based supercapacitor with an energy density of 60 Wh/liter, which is around 12 times higher than that of commercially available supercapacitors and in the same league as lead-acid batteries. The device also lasts as long as a conventional battery.



Graphene-based supercapacitor a step closer to commerical reality


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## ScienceRocks

*Enercon win Swedish deal for E92*



> The 2.3MW turbines, produced by German manufacturer Enercon, and designed for inland sites with low to medium wind speeds, will be delivered to the wind farm&#8217;s Skogberget.
> 
> It will be financed jointly with EUR 84.5 million from Germany&#8217;s KfW IPEX bank and Swedish bank SEB, and loan financing will be provided by both banks in equal shares.
> 
> SEB head of project, asset and export finance, Christoph Tomas, said: "Financing projects aimed at protecting the environment and climate is an integral part of both bank&#8217;s business spectrum."
> 
> KfW IPEX managing director, Markus Scheer, said his bank was supporting "a promising flagship project in the growing market for renewable energy in Sweden".
> 
> Markbygden is expected to generate 4GW by 2021 from more than 1,100 wind turbines.



http://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1194041/enercon-win-swedish-deal-e92


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## ScienceRocks

*Electric Car Sales Up 530% Over 2012*


Electric Car Sales Up 530% for July 2013


> They may not be the 1% of overall sales that the government wants to see, but there is denying that electric cars are starting reach the mainstream. Year over year sales for elctric cars were up 530% in July, and while some of that can be attributed to new players in the market, Nissan and Mitsubishi&#8217;s EVs (out for more than a year) showed significant gains, while the Chevy Volt was down nearly 10% as &#8220;Pure EV&#8221; enthusiasts flocked to the Spark.
> 
> You can get all the gory details on the recent surge in electric car sales in the original article, below, which originally appeared on Cleantechnica and EV Obsession


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Korea unveils electric buses that charge up while on the road*
Korea unveils electric buses that charge up while on the road | DVICE



> When Elon Musk unveiled his battery swapping service months ago it was the Tesla founder's bid to help mainstream electric vehicles by making charging that much easier. But as previous battery swapping projects have proven, the dynamic isn't necessarily a sure-fire answer to wider adoption of electric cars. However, a new effort from Korea is offering a complication-free solution that could point the way for electric charging in major cities around the world in the near future.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Exciting Developments A Hydrogen And Ammonia Pilot Plant In Minnesota*



> The West Central Research and Outreach Center has recently turned what was just a dream in 2002 into a reality today. The project began with a vision of capturing wind energy and using it in an innovative way; the end product was the completion of the Renewable Hydrogen and Ammonia Pilot Plant located in Morris, Minnesota.
> 
> The plant&#8217;s function is to ultimately create NH3 (ammonia). How does it work? Nitrogen and hydrogen are created using wind, air, and water. Nitrogen is pulled out of the air by pressurizing air to vent out the oxygen, carbon dioxide, and other chemicals to leave behind the nitrogen molecules. A current of electricity produced by the wind turbine is put into water, splitting the hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen is vented off to leave behind pure hydrogen. After a process of mixing the nitrogen and hydrogen and then heating and cooling, liquid ammonia is created and stored at a low temperature



Read more at CleanTechnica | Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*633 Energy Storage Projects Now Underway Worldwide*



> Government funding for energy storage technology is creating serious returns on investment around the world with distinctly focused industries taking shape in Europe, North America, and Asia.
> 
> 633 advanced energy storage projects encompassing 865 separate systems are currently in operation or under development worldwide, according to Navigant Research&#8217;s &#8220;Energy Storage Tracker 3Q13.&#8221; The industry added 38 new projects during the first half of 2013.
> 
> Even though global energy storage markets are growing fast, up from 562 projects at the end of 2012, they remain fragmented in both technologies in use and applications in each region. France&#8217;s Alstom leads all vendors with 19% of total market share, closely followed by Germany&#8217;s Voith with 16%, and America&#8217;s Gridflex with 13%



Read more at 633 Advanced Energy Storage Projects Now Underway Worldwide


----------



## ScienceRocks

*1st Tesla Model S Delivered In Europe*

By Nathan August




> Tesla&#8217;s nearly universally lauded Model S is now finally available in the European market! The first deliveries of the award-winning EV began earlier this week. The first man on the continent to get his Model S was apparently a Norwegian man by the name of Frederic Hauge &#8212; who was also, apparently, the first man to have an electric car imported into Norway, all the way back in 1989!
> 
> Shortly after the delivery of his new Tesla Motors Model S Signature Edition car, Mr Hauge was quoted as saying: &#8220;As Europe&#8217;s first owner of the Tesla Model S, I am very proud to be a pioneer.&#8221; With such a nice car, who wouldn&#8217;t be?


Tesla Model S Hits The European Market | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Record Solar PV Shipment Levels in Q2&#8217;2013*



> The latest NPD Solarbuzz Module Tracker Quarterly has been released and shows that quarterly solar photovoltaic (PV) module shipments for the second quarter of 2013 exceeded 5.8 GW, a 21% growth over second quarter-2012 levels.
> 
> The figures released in the latest report represent the shipping levels for the leading 20 PV manufacturers around the world, and will finalised over the coming weeks.
> 
> It is expected that many Chinese tier-one manufacturers broke their quarterly module shipment records this most recent quarter, including companies Yingli Green Energy, Trina Solar, Jinko Solar, Renesola, and Hanwha SolarOne.
> 
> Furthermore, it is believed that Yingli Green Energy have reached 0.8 GW of shipments in the second quarter, a figure which would represent a new world record for any one single PV provider.



Read more at Record Solar PV Shipment Levels in Q2'2013 | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

$77 Billion from the Sun: The Truth About Solar: Video - Bloomberg


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Hybrids Take 7% of California Market, Tesla Outsells Buick, Fiat, Land Rover, Lincoln*



> Articles about sales figures are always weird, especially when they&#8217;re broken down into regions. Consider that Tesla&#8217;s Model S is out-selling Buick, Fiat, Land Rover, and Lincoln in California &#8212; the most populous state in the union and home to about 1 in 8 of all Americans. It&#8217;s a trend-setter, in other words, and had Ferraris named after it years before the Midwest knew what a Ferrari was. What do these numbers mean, then? No idea, but they&#8217;re neat to look at!
> 
> The state of California has just released its new vehicle sales numbers for the first half of 2013, and the big winner so far is the Tesla Model S, with 0.6% of the overall market share. That may not sound like much, but &#8212; in California &#8212; it&#8217;s more than Buick (0.5%), FIAT (0.5%), Land Rover (0.5%), Lincoln (0.3%), and Mitsubishi (0.3%) did in the same time, with stronger dealer networks, more existing customers, and a lower initial pricetag!
> 
> Also of note in the California New Car Dealers Association (CNCDA) report, hybrids accounted for just over 7% of overall sales for the first time, up from 6.2% in 2012 and 4.8% in 2011. TreeHugger writer Michael Graham Richard also noticed that, &#8220;Somewhat surprisingly, pure electric cars are doing better than plug-in hybrids with 1.1% of the market and 9,708 units vs 0.7% and 5,736 units,&#8221; giving more evidence to my claim that many EV buyers consider plug-in hybrids like the Toyota Prius and Chevy Volt as &#8220;half-measures&#8221; towards an electric-car future.


Read more at Hybrids Take 7% of California Market, Tesla Outsells Buick, Fiat


----------



## ScienceRocks

*BMW X5 Hybrid Spied In South Carolina*


> A BMW X5 hybrid has been spotted with a distinctive-patterned test vehicle paint job. It was known to be a hybrid because of the presence of a hybrid emblem and an electrical receptacle for charging, which also makes it seem likely the BMW X5 will be a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV).
> 
> BMW intends to unveil the eDrive version of the X5 (the very first one at that) at the 2013 Frankfurt Motor Show. According to BMWBlog, the hybrid version of the X5 will be very similar to the gasoline and diesel versions. It has a turbocharged 4-cylinder engine and an electric motor. If production of this vehicle commences, it is likely to be available in the US next year, following the release of the BMW i3 and BMW i8 (which was also just recently spied testing) to become BMW&#8217;s third electric car. Below is one photo. For more, check out BMWBlog.



Read more at BMW X5 Hybrid Spotted


----------



## ScienceRocks

*100% Of New Australian Power Plants Are Wind Or Solar*



> The rapidly changing nature of Australia&#8217;s coal-fired electricity grid has been highlighted by a new report from the Australian Energy Market Operator, which reports that all new electricity generation proposals received in the last 12 months have been either for large scale wind farms or solar facilities.
> 
> In its annual assessment of Energy market opportunities (known in the industry as ESOO, or Electricity Statement of  Opportunities), AEMO notes the pivotal of renewable energy sources in the National Electricity Market, and in particular the influence of rooftop solar.
> 
> In the past year, the building out of residential rooftop solar totaled 774MW across the NEM (which includes the eastern states and South Australia, but excludes WA, the Northern Territory,Mt Isa and other isolated networks). Solar analysts expect a similar amount of rooftop solar to be installed in 2013/14, despite the removal of most subsidies.



Read more at 100% Of New Australian Power Plants Are Wind Or Solar | CleanTechnica


----------



## Mr. H.

_Around 89 per cent of Australia&#8217;s electricity is generated from fossil fuels, with 74 per cent from coal and 15 per cent from natural gas._

Australia's energy sources - Origin Energy


----------



## ScienceRocks

*A Solar System Is Installed in the US Every 4 Minutes*

The industry will soon install one solar system every minute and a half.

Stephen Lacey: August 19, 2013

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/america-installs-a-solar-system-every-four-minutes


> A lot happens in America every four minutes. During that short time period, 30 babies are born, 4,080 McDonald's Big Macs are consumed, and 48,000 tons of CO2 are emitted.
> 
> And as it turns out, the U.S. is now installing one solar photovoltaic (PV) system every four minutes as well. If market growth continues at its current pace, the American solar industry could be installing a system every minute and twenty seconds by 2016.
> 
> That's a dramatic difference from 2006, when installers were only putting up one system every 80 minutes. Shayle Kann, vice president of GTM Research, documents the accelerating speed of solar deployment in the chart below:


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Refrigerated trucks to keep their cool thanks to fuel cell technology*

8 hours ago 



> Grocery merchants in Texas, California and New York will soon have ice cream, frozen foods and fresh produce delivered by tractor trailers whose refrigeration units are powered by fuel cells, a clean technology that makes energy silently and with dramatically reduced emissions.




 Read more at: Refrigerated trucks to keep their cool thanks to fuel cell technology


----------



## ScienceRocks

*KLD updates electric motor for 21st-century cars*
Startup company KLD Energy Technologies developed OneDrive, a new electric drivetrain for cars that the company insists is much more efficient than those currently on the market.


KLD updates electric motor for 21st-century cars | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews


> Out in a parking lot by the San Francisco Giants' ballpark, KLD CEO Christian Okonsky explains that the basic electric motor, that used by automakers like Tesla in its electric cars, has not changed much in 100 years. Then he shows me a teardown of KLD's electric motor, this one employing radical features such as a stator broken down into multiple, modular components.
> 
> Okonsky's chief scientific officer, Ray Caamano, takes over, diving deep into electrical engineering terminology of which I can follow a bit before my brain starts humming the theme song from "Speed Racer." It's heady stuff but it seems to make sense.
> 
> KLD has not only developed a new electric motor, but also come up with a battery pack and power control module, tying the whole system together as a drivetrain for electric  cars. This approach, developing battery, control, and motor together, is something I've also heard from Tesla engineers. In an electric car, the pieces are just too interdependent to develop separately, then mix and match.
> 
> And Okonsky thinks he has something more efficient than Tesla's, or any other automaker's, drivetrain.
> 
> To back it up, he says that KLD's electric drive system, called OneDrive*, can get the same range from a 3-kilowatt-hour battery pack as other systems get off of a 5-kilowatt-hour pack.* Because of this greater efficiency, KLD uses what Okonsky tells me are power cells, rather than energy cells, for the OneDrive battery.


----------



## ScienceRocks

* Nearly 40,000 New Green Jobs Created Across America During 2Q 2013*



> Clean energy and sustainable transportation projects launched this year created nearly 40,000 new green jobs in America during the second quarter (2Q) of 2013.
> 
> From renewables to energy efficiency and public transportation, America&#8217;s transition to a clean energy economy is well underway, reports the latest green jobs report from Environmental Entrepreneurs (E2).


Read more at Nearly 40,000 New Green Jobs Created Across America During 2Q 2013


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Next Toyota Prius Will Hopefully Achieve 55 MPG*



> For more than ten years the Toyota Prius has been the overwhelming champion of fuel-efficient cars, with no competitors coming even close to its 50 mpg combined mileage. But the competition among fuel-efficient cars has grown exponentially in the past few years, and in order to stay on top Toyota needs to deliver more efficiency for less money, with a goal of 55 mpg.
> 
> The new Toyota Prius has been hinted to arrive around 2015, and will be the first to roll on Toyota&#8217;s New Global Architecture platform that includes a lower center of gravity and better structural rigidity. To put it simply, this new platform is stronger, and less likely to roll over. The new architecture will also allow Toyota to lower the price of the Prius by spreading development costs over a wider range of models.
> 
> But who cares about safety when we can talk sexier advancements, like a smaller electric motor that makes more power, and a gasoline engine that could achieve 40% thermal efficiency. That would make it one of the most efficient engines in the world (many gas engines have around 28 to 30% thermal efficiency, losing a lot of energy via heat). Toyota is also said to be working on a new kind of electric motor that uses fewer rare earth elements, decreasing the automaker&#8217;s reliance on China.


Read more at The Next Prius Will Hopefully Achieve 55 MPG


----------



## Mr. H.

Matthew said:


> *Next Toyota Prius Will Hopefully Achieve 55 MPG*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For more than ten years the Toyota Prius has been the overwhelming champion of fuel-efficient cars, with no competitors coming even close to its 50 mpg combined mileage. But the competition among fuel-efficient cars has grown exponentially in the past few years, and in order to stay on top Toyota needs to deliver more efficiency for less money, with a goal of 55 mpg.
> 
> The new Toyota Prius has been hinted to arrive around 2015, and will be the first to roll on Toyotas New Global Architecture platform that includes a lower center of gravity and better structural rigidity. To put it simply, this new platform is stronger, and less likely to roll over. The new architecture will also allow Toyota to lower the price of the Prius by spreading development costs over a wider range of models.
> 
> But who cares about safety when we can talk sexier advancements, like a smaller electric motor that makes more power, and a gasoline engine that could achieve 40% thermal efficiency. That would make it one of the most efficient engines in the world (many gas engines have around 28 to 30% thermal efficiency, losing a lot of energy via heat). Toyota is also said to be working on a new kind of electric motor that uses fewer rare earth elements, decreasing the automakers reliance on China.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at The Next Prius Will Hopefully Achieve 55 MPG
Click to expand...


Diesel cars get 55+ mpg. Without the bullshit.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*US Adds 976MW New Solar PV Capacity In 2Q As California Sets Record*


> The US solar photovoltaic (PV) industry just keeps shining, with rising demand across the country pushing installed capacity in second quarter (2Q) 2013 up 24% compared to first quarter (1Q) 2013.
> 
> America added 976 megawatts (MW) of new solar PV capacity in 2Q 2013, according to the NPD Solarbuzz North America PV Markets Quarterly report.
> 
> Solar PV demand is expected to continue growing through 2013, but roughly 75% of this new capacity is concentrated in just five states &#8211; evidence of the impact smart state policy can have on renewable energy.



Read more at US Adds 976MW New Solar PV Capacity In 2Q As California Sets Record


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Ethiopia Has Added 13,200 Off-grid Solar Power Systems Since December 2012*




> In a recent announcement, the Ethiopian Ministry of Water and Energy claimed that around 13,200 solar systems have been installed in rural Ethiopia over the past nine months. These systems are based on distributed power technology as there is no grid connectivity in those areas.
> 
> The program is a part of a project launched in December last year at a cost of about $11 million secured from the World Bank. The project aims to power a total of 25,000 households across the country by the end of November this year. With current installation of 13,200, the project has successfully crossed the halfway milestone.
> 
> The Ministry&#8217;s Director of Public Relations, Bizuneh Tolcha said that the installation &#8220;will provide enough power for lighting, mobile phones, computers and a solar fridge for each home.&#8221;
> 
> Ethiopia has suffered badly over the last few years from energy crises due to depletion of its oil and natural gas reserves. In 2009, less than 10% households had access to electricity. To overcome this situation, the government had come out with an ambitious dam building program which aimed to produce 1.18 GW from three dams. The current program of solar system installation in the rural areas will further improve energy access in the country.



Read more at Ethiopia Has Added 13,200 Off-grid Solar Power Systems Since December 2012 | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Development of Tiny Thorium Reactors Could Wean the World Off Oil In Just Five Years*


> An abundant metal with vast energy potential could quickly wean the world off oil, if only Western political leaders would muster the will to do it, a UK newspaper says today. The Telegraph makes the case for thorium reactors as the key to a fossil-fuel-free world within five years, and puts the ball firmly in President Barack Obama's court.
> 
> Thorium, named for the Norse god of thunder, is much more abundant than uranium and has 200 times that metal's energy potential. Thorium is also a more efficient fuel source -- unlike natural uranium, which must be highly refined before it can be used in nuclear reactors, all thorium is potentially usable as fuel.
> 
> The Telegraph says thorium could be used as an energy amplifier in next-generation nuclear power plants, an idea conceived by Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia, former director of CERN.


Development of Tiny Thorium Reactors Could Wean the World Off Oil In Just Five Years | Popular Science


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## Old Rocks

I have been aware for many years of the possibility of thorium reactors. The proposed gen 5 reactors are based on thorium. However, if the ongoing disaster at Fukushima goes really bad, there will be little chance of convincing anyone that we need more nukes, of any kind.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Nissan Leaf & Chevy Volt Both Break Their US Monthly Sales Records*


> The month of August was a good one for plug-in electric car companies. Two of the three leading electric cars (in terms of sales) broke their US monthly sales records last month (we don&#8217;t have monthly sales numbers for the other one).
> 
> The Nissan Leaf&#8217;s new all-time best is 2,420, while the Chevy Volt&#8217;s new all-time best is 3,351
> 
> The August sales results also now put the Chevy Volt (14,994) ahead of the Nissan Leaf (14,123) in cumulative 2013 sales. The two cars have been trading places at the top for the past few months or so. It feels like the last stretch of an important race in a Hollywood movie, imho.
> 
> 2013 Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt sales are leagues above their 2012 sales. As regular readers know, the US Leaf tantalized the market with a $6,400 price cut in January (thanks to the start of production within the US, which cut costs tremendously), while the Chevy Volt finally did the same last month with a $5,000 price cut (which may not have been as warranted as the Leaf&#8217;s).


Read more at Nissan Leaf & Chevy Volt Both Break Their US Monthly Sales Records | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*A $1.6 Million Win In America&#8217;s Second Offshore Wind Lease Auction*



> Offshore wind took another major step toward becoming reality in America yesterday with the second-ever competitive lease sale to develop renewable energy in federal waters.
> 
> Virginia Electric and Power Company, a subsidiary of Dominion Virginia Power, won the Department of the Interior&#8217;s (DOI) auction to develop 112,800 acres about 23 miles from Virginia Beach with a final bid of $1.6 million.
> 
> Wednesday&#8217;s auction was the second successful DOI offshore wind lease sale held in a month, after a July 31st auction of 164,750 acres in New England, and could signal the start of a rush to develop new tracts of wind-rich areas off the Atlantic coast.



Read more at A $1.6 Million Win In America's Second Offshore Wind Lease Auction


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## ScienceRocks

*Potential Breakthrough In Waste Heat Recovery &#8212; Vehicle Mileage Boosted By 5% And Power Plant Performance By As Much As 10%*

A





> potential breakthrough has been made with regard to waste heat recovery &#8212; potentially boosting vehicle mileage by around 5% and boosting power plant and industrial processing performance by up to 10% &#8212; thanks to new research from the University of Houston&#8217;s physics department and the Texas Center for Superconductivity.
> 
> The researchers there have found a non-toxic substitute for the lead that&#8217;s used in thermoelectric devices based on lead-containing telluride. Such devices &#8212; while possessing great thermoelectric properties &#8212; can&#8217;t be used on the commercial scale because of the significant health issues that accompany the use of lead. The non-toxic substitute &#8212; tin telluride, doped with the chemical element indium &#8212; is nearly as effective as the lead-containing telluride


.

Read more at Potential Breakthrough In Waste Heat Recovery -- Vehicle Mileage Boosted By 5% And Power Plant Performance By As Much As 10% | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Lab reports big advance in laser fusion quest*

The latest experimental run at the National Ignition Facility produced as many as one quarter of the neutrons needed to trigger sustained fusion.

By David Kramer



> Researchers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory say they have tripled the number of neutrons produced by fusion in tiny capsules of deuterium and tritium and thus have moved the National Ignition Facility a step closer to its goal of sustained nuclear fusion. The 13 August firing of NIF's 192-beam laser yielded 3&#8201;×&#8201;1015 neutrons, whose total energy reached 8 kilojoules. That output was nearly twice the 5 kJ of energy that produced the plasma in the peppercorn-sized sphere of fusion fuel, says Ed Moses, the lab's principal associate director for NIF.
> 
> The result puts NIF a factor of four to five away from ignition, says Moses; last fall the Department of Energy reported that NIF was an order of magnitude away from its goal. Only a factor-of-two increase in plasma energy will be needed to attain alpha heating, an intermediate milestone at which alpha particles from fusion reactions contribute twice as much energy to the plasma as the laser does.


Lab reports big advance in laser fusion quest | Politics and Policy - Physics Today


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## Mr. H.

Fishing for electrons...

New battery uses microbes to turn sewage into energy


----------



## Old Rocks

Mr. H. said:


> Fishing for electrons...
> 
> New battery uses microbes to turn sewage into energy



Anytime you can address two problems at once, it is a plus. Cleaning waste water and generating electricity at the same time is an excellant twofer.


----------



## Mr. H.

The small scale is the beginning scale.


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## Mr. H.

Ladder up!


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## ScienceRocks

*Ivanpah solar plant in California starts energy feed to grid*

Sep 27, 2013 by Nancy Owano weblog



> The world's largest solar thermal plant began to feed energy into the power grid on Tuesday, considered a solar energy milestone, in a project scheduled to be fully operational by the end of the year. The system delivered its first kilowatts of power Tuesday to Pacific Gas & Electric in California, from one of three central-tower units, with the remaining two to be activated next. Power generated from Ivanpah's initial sync testing to PG&E is under a power purchase agreement for energy produced out of the plant's Unit 1 station. Power generated from the Unit 3 station is also for PG&E. Unit 2 is under an agreement with Southern California Edison. Proof-of-concept testing will also be conducted at Units 2 and 3 in the coming months.


 Read more at: Ivanpah solar plant in California starts energy feed to grid


----------



## ScienceRocks

*1000MW Geothermal Plant in Ethiopia to Double Africa&#8217;s Electricity Access*
1000MW Geothermal Plant in Ethiopia to Double Africa?s Electricity Access




> Prime Minister Hailemariam Desalegn and Reykjavik Geothermal have announced plans to develop a 1000MW geothermal plant in Ethiopia -one of the largest in the world.
> 
> US-Icelandic geothermal development company, Reykjavik Geothermal (RG) has agreed to develop one the world&#8217;s largest geothermal power projects in the Corbetti area in Ethiopia to help East African communities harness their own energy. Becoming Ethiopia&#8217;s first independent power project, and the largest in Africa, the plant would double energy supply in Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Liberia, Nigeria and Tanzania.


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> *1000MW Geothermal Plant in Ethiopia to Double Africas Electricity Access*
> 1000MW Geothermal Plant in Ethiopia to Double Africa?s Electricity Access
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Hailemariam Desalegn and Reykjavik Geothermal have announced plans to develop a 1000MW geothermal plant in Ethiopia -one of the largest in the world.
> 
> US-Icelandic geothermal development company, Reykjavik Geothermal (RG) has agreed to develop one the worlds largest geothermal power projects in the Corbetti area in Ethiopia to help East African communities harness their own energy. Becoming Ethiopias first independent power project, and the largest in Africa, the plant would double energy supply in Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Liberia, Nigeria and Tanzania.
Click to expand...


Well damn I'm proud to help... You're gonna end up paying for most of this one.. Just to keep Africa clean and US corporations fat..... ((Yes it IS a joint US Iceland corp))



> First Power Africa Transaction Moves Forward with Landmark Agreement between Ethiopian Government and Reykjavik Geothermal | U.S. Agency for International Development
> 
> The Corbetti project is part of the Power Africa Initiative announced by President Obama this past summer which seeks to add more than 10,000 megawatts of cleaner, more efficient electricity in six priority countries in sub-Saharan Africa.  A key thrust of the Power Africa strategy is to accelerate the development of the vast and renewable geothermal potential in the Rift Valley which extends through both Ethiopia and Kenya. Corbetti was identified early on by USAID as a priority transaction that could showcase the innovative Power Africa model: combining private sector expertise and investment with U.S. government tools to mitigate risk and build local government expertise.  USAID technical advice at the transaction level has been instrumental in moving the Corbetti project towards agreement.  At the same time, the USAID-sponsored Geothermal Risk Mitigation Facility (GRMF), funded by KfW and managed by the African Union, will provide the Corbetti project with grant funding to defray the costs and risk of exploratory drilling.  The Corbetti agreement is also a significant signal to the private sector and international investors that the Ethiopian energy sector is looking at new generation models beyond the dominant role that the public sector has played until now.  This is also a critical objective of Power Africa: compelling African governments to institute appropriate reforms to create the right enabling environment for private sector activities.



Hope they translate the phrase "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help" before their part of the bills come due..


----------



## Mr. H.

Mass. approves building of gas-fired power plant - Yahoo Finance

BOSTON (AP) -- _The Patrick administration has signed off on construction of a new 692-megawatt gas-fired power plant to be located the site of the existing Salem Harbor Station. 

The facility is expected to be one of the most efficient and lowest-emitting large gas-fired power plants in New England, Massachusetts Energy and Environmental Affairs Secretary Rick Sullivan said Thursday. _


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Oklahoma Utility Buys 600 MW Of Wind Power To &#8216;Provide Substantial Savings To Our Customers&#8217;*



> Oklahomans will soon be paying less for their electricity because their utility looked at the market and decided that wind power would be the most cost-effective option.
> 
> On Thursday, the 100-year-old Public Service Company of Oklahoma (PSO) &#8212; a division of American Electric Power (AEP) &#8212; signed an agreement to buy 600 megawatts of power from wind farms being developed in the northwestern part of the state. Currently there is just one large-scale wind farm in the Panhandle and in almost two years, there will be three more.
> 
> &#8220;The Panhandle of Oklahoma truly is one of the mother lodes of wind in this country,&#8221; said Clean Line Energy Partners President Michael Skelly.


Oklahoma Utility Buys 600 MW Of Wind Power To 'Provide Substantial Savings To Our Customers' | ThinkProgress


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Number of planned new onshore wind farms has doubled since 2011*



> Record numbers of onshore wind farms have been approved for construction this year as power companies cash in on hundreds of millions of pounds in subsidies.
> 
> The number of turbine projects granted planning permission has more than doubled over the last two years, according to the latest figures, prompting fears that hand-outs for energy firms are too high.
> A growing public backlash against green energy levies on household bills, and the spread of wind turbines across the countryside, has led senior Tories to plot radical steps to protect the landscape and cut costs for customers.


Number of planned new onshore wind farms has doubled since 2011 - Telegraph


----------



## Mr. H.

Hydrocarbons. Kick. Ass. 

Matthew take nap.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*1.8 GW Of New Solar For Japan In Q2*



> Japan keeps strongly increasing solar capacity and racked up another 1.8 GW of projects completed in the second quarter of this year. Most of this (1.4 GW) was commercial installations. Residential PV solar for the same period was just 410 MW. For Q2 this ratio was a reversal of the prior period, which favored residential solar installations over commercial.


Read more at 1.8 GW Of New Solar For Japan In Q2 | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Third Quarter 2013 Solar PV Installations Reach 9 GW*



> Third quarter global solar installations in 2013 reached 9 GW, according to a recent report. NPD Solarbuzz Quarterly said demand increased 6% compared to the second quarter, while advancing 20% above a year earlier.
> 
> Price stabilization provided some underlying support in the third quarter, analysts said. &#8220;The record levels of mid-year demand in 2013 have been critical to the overall recovery of the solar PV sector,&#8221; said NPD Solarbuzz senior analyst Michael Barker. &#8220;Restored confidence in end-market growth is allowing leading solar PV manufacturers to pursue aggressive shipment strategies within both established and emerging territories, despite earlier concerns that trade wars could dampen growth.&#8221;




Read more at Third Quarter 2013 Solar PV Installations Reach 9 GW | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Ford To Partner With University Of Michigan On Electric-Car Battery Lab*



> To launch its Chevrolet Volt range-extended electric car, General Motors chose to build and expand its very own battery lab.
> 
> Crosstown rival Ford is taking a different route.
> 
> According to the Detroit News, it will partner with the University of Michigan by helping to fund a laboratory where car makers can test prototype battery cells for future plug-in electric cars.
> 
> 
> The university is to announce the plan today. Total funding of $8 million will be split among the university's engineering department, Ford, and the Michigan Economic Development Corp.
> 
> Ford now sells two types of plug-in vehicles: its Fusion Energi and C-Max Energi plug-in hybrids, with rated electric range of 21 miles, and its low-volume Focus Electric battery-electric vehicle.


Ford To Partner With University Of Michigan On Electric-Car Battery Lab


----------



## ScienceRocks

Lowering the cost of solar installation with robots and cleaning technology

California-based startup company, Alion Energy, has developed a new automated system that is seven times faster than conventional solar installation. In addition, its cleaning technology can boost the efficiency of the panels. It is hoped this new system could significantly lower costs, making solar more competitive with fossil fuels
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nIDks4A3GC8]Solar Robots Designed to Make Photovoltaics as Cheap as Fossil Fuels - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Dubai inaugurates first phase of mega solar energy project*


> Dubai inaugurated the first phase of a solar energy park on Tuesday as the Gulf emirate seeks to diversify its energy sources, official Emirati news agency WAM reported.
> 
> The park, named the "Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum Park" after the emirate's ruler, will produce 1,000 megawatts of electricity when completed, and will cost 12 billion dirhams ($3.3 billion), WAM said.
> 
> The first plant of the solar energy megaproject is 30 kilometres (18 miles) from the city of Dubai and can produce 10 megawatts of energy on its own.




 Read more at: Dubai inaugurates first phase of mega solar energy project


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Wireless Electric Buses Developed In Utah*


> It&#8217;s easy to understand why some people hate public transportation. Most city buses use large diesel engines that are are loud and smelly, but pure-electric buses are too expensive for most cash-strapped cities to afford. Utah-based electric bus company WAVE might have a solution for electric buses, using a clever wireless-charging system that drastically reduces battery size and cost.
> 
> Developed in conjunction with the University of Utah and commercialized first in Park City, Utah, WAVE got its start powering buses around the university campus. The technology uses inductive charging to wirelessly transfer energy between the charger and the bus. This is nothing exactly groundbreaking here, with other projects in places like South Korea displaying similar ideas.



Read more at Wireless Electric Buses Developed In Utah | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*New York Manhole Covers To Deliver Power to Electric Vehicles*



> Electric vehicles are a pretty good solution for the very serious problem of particulate and carbon pollution that cars and trucks pour into the air. But adoption has been slow because drivers aren&#8217;t willing to risk running out of juice mid-trip. Until charging stations are nearly as easy to find as gasoline, the problem of vehicular pollution will remain stalled.
> 
> hevo-chargerNew York startup HEVO is offering one clever improvement, making it easier to recharge electric vehicles, or EVs, in cities. It&#8217;s offering reservable parking spots featuring what look like manholes in the pavement, but are in fact wireless charging devices that will give the trucks a little more juice while they sit.
> 
> Wireless charging eliminates the clumsiness of cords in a crowded city environment. And because the parking spaces can be reserved, they reduce the chances that delivery truck drivers will rack up costly parking tickets.
> 
> But, no, a few minutes of charging while the driver unloads a couple dollies of office supplies or soda will not fully charge a truck.


New York Manhole Covers To Deliver Power to Electric Vehicles | Singularity Hub


----------



## ScienceRocks

*8 States Teaming Up to Support Electric Cars*




> WASHINGTON &#8212; In an effort to spur lackluster sales of electric cars, California, New York and six other states said on Thursday that they would work jointly to adopt a range of measures, including encouraging more charging stations and changing building codes, to make it easier to own an electric car.
> 
> The goal, they said, was to achieve sales of at least 3.3 million vehicles that did not have any emissions by 2025.




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/25/b...-seeks-to-spur-use-of-electric-cars.html?_r=0


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Africa's biggest wind farm opens in Ethiopia *




> The $290m Ashegoda Wind Farm is expected to generate 120MW of electricity, easing Ethiopia's dependence on hydropower.
> Africa's biggest wind farm has begun production in Ethiopia, aiding efforts to diversify electricity generation from hydropower plants and help the country become a major regional exporter of energy
> 
> Africa's second most populous country - plagued by frequent blackouts - plans to boost generating capacity from 2,000 MW to 10,000 MW within the next three to five years.
> 
> Much of the increase would come from the 6,000 MW Grand Renaissance Dam under construction on the Nile.



Africa's biggest wind farm opens in Ethiopia - Africa - Al Jazeera English

Good for Africa  Lots of renewable energy!


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Panasonic to release solar LED lantern for people living in areas without electricity*



> Panasonic Corporation today announced that it will start selling a solar LED lantern that doubles as a charger for people living in areas without electricity. With a built-in rechargeable battery to store solar energy during the day, the lantern provides light at night and can also be used as a power source to charge small mobile devices, such as mobile phones. The company plans to bring the lantern to regions without electricity, starting from Asia and Africa in December this year. The functions of the BG-BL03 Solar LED Lantern, such as 360-degree illumination and a charging time of approximately 6 hours, make it practical and convenient for everyday use in these areas.


 Read more at: Panasonic to release solar LED lantern for people living in areas without electricity


----------



## ScienceRocks

*General Fusion targeting commercializing nuclear fusion in about 2020*



> General Fusion has opened up its website. Previously much of website required passwords to access.
> 
> General Fusion has the near-term goal of developing a full-scale prototype fusion power plant for the comparative bargain of $500 million. In September, General Fusion added some serious scientific muscle to its team, appointing two renowned names in energy and technology circles to its board. Frederick W. Buckman, a PhD in nuclear engineering from MIT, is a veteran energy executive and CEO of Powerlink Transmission Co.; Jacques Besnainou is the former president and CEO of Areva Group North America, a global player in nuclear power.
> 
> General Fusion&#8217;s system uses a sphere, filled with molten lead-lithium that is pumped to form a vortex. Plasma is injected into the vortex, and an array of pistons drives a pressure wave into the centre of the sphere to compress the plasma into fusion conditions. It would use abundant raw materials and produce no emissions or radioactive waste.
> 
> There have been delays that have disrupted the company&#8217;s ideal timeline, but &#8220;that&#8217;s science.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;We&#8217;re working hard to have a full prototype system in the next few years,&#8221; says Delage. &#8220;The goal we&#8217;re focused on right now is getting to the point where we can build that full-size complete prototype.&#8221;
> 
> If General Fusion succeeds they plan to produce fusion system that generate power at about 3-5 cents per kWh. This would be competitive with coal and natural gas.



General Fusion targeting commercializing nuclear fusion in about 2020


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Tesla's west coast Supercharger corridor extended to Vancouver*



> Elon Musk has given Model S owners living on the US/Canadian west coast an early Christmas present with the announcement that its fast-charging &#8220;Supercharger&#8221; network will now extend all the way from California right up into British Columbia.
> 
> Earlier this year, Gizmag reported Tesla&#8217;s development of its &#8220;West Coast Supercharger Network.&#8221; The corridor that previously only included California and Oregon has now expanded to include San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, San Francisco, Sacramento, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver. Model S&#8217; equipped with the 85 kWh battery receive supercharging access for free, while owners of 60 kWh models can optionally purchase station time for US$2,000 - $2,500 after delivery.



Tesla's west coast Supercharger corridor extended to Vancouver


----------



## ScienceRocks

*VIA Motors Launches First High-Volume EV Assembly Plant In San Luis Potosi, Mexico*


> VIA Motors, makers of the VTRUX brand of extended-range plug-in trucks, just launched its first high-volume electric vehicle assembly plant this week, located in a new facility in San Luis Potosi, Mexico.
> 
> The facility &#8212; which is strategically placed in a free-trade zone, and also near a number of important automakers and suppliers &#8212; will now serve as the site where new vehicles sent from the General Motors production facility in Silao are transformed into electric vehicles, a transformation that is accomplished via the integration of VIA&#8217;s proprietary extended range electric power train.



Read more at VIA Motors Launches First High-Volume EV Assembly Plant In San Luis Potosi, Mexico | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Germany Solar PV (Report) &#8212; A Must-Read For Any Energy Reporter*



> One of our Dutch readers, Remco van der Horst of Better Energy, recently passed along an excellent report on various aspects of Germany&#8217;s solar power boom. The report actually reads more like a fact-checking of common claims (in media and politics) regarding Germany&#8217;s rapid energy transition. It is easy to read, organized by common questions/claims, and full of interesting facts. I actually learned a few things from this one that have been itching at my mind for awhile.
> 
> I definitely recommend checking out every question and at least the short answer for it. However, I&#8217;m pulling out a few of the key ones and sharing them below. Have a look!



Read more at Germany Solar PV (Report) -- A Must-Read For Any Energy Reporter | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*UK Offshore Wind Capacity Grows 80% In A Year, Expect More To Come*



> The United Kingdom&#8217;s offshore wind sector installed capacity has grown by 79% over the period of July 2012 to June 2013, according to a new report released by trade group RenewableUK.
> 
> The installed capacity of the UK&#8217;s offshore wind sector grew from 1,858 MW to 3,321 MW over the period, thanks in part to four massive wind farms going operational at Greater Gabbard, Gunfleet Sands III, Sheringham Shoal, and London Array. It helped that the London Array is the world&#8217;s largest offshore wind farm, measuring in at 630 MW.
> 
> Including onshore wind into the equation, a growth of over 40% was seen over the period in the UK, but the real prize was offshore, with more wind capacity installed offshore than onshore for the first time ever. Onshore did OK, but only managed a growth of 25%, measuring in at 1,258 MW of new capacity coming into operation over the July&#8217;12-June&#8217;13 period.


Read more at UK Offshore Wind Capacity Grows 80% In A Year, Expect More To Come | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Alaskan Wave Energy Project Receives Project Management Support*



> Located on the Gulf of Alaska, the 750 kW Yakutat Wave Energy Project is set to make life easier for locales who have so far had to rely on diesel prices as high as $8 per gallon, thanks to the 1,000 mile journey the fuel has to make by road to get there.
> 
> And now, Resolute Marine Energy (RME) have announced that Ocean Renewable Power Company&#8217;s subsidiary, ORPC Solutions, will be providing project management and regulatory services for the project.
> 
> The remote community of 650 inhabitants have had their economic and social viability threatened by the absurdly priced diesel costs, but the self-sufficiency program based around the Yakutat Wave Energy Project is set to make this problem disappear, hopefully.
> 
> 
> 
> RME will be installing its SurgeWEC wave energy converters at an ocean site nearby the existing Yakutat Power municipal power grid. RME has already obtained a Federal Energy Regulatory Commission preliminary permit for the site, and is now working on obtaining a formal license application to the commission.
> 
> &#8220;I&#8217;m very pleased to see the progress that&#8217;s being made on the Yakutat Wave Energy Project and we&#8217;re very excited that ORPC is now a part of the team,&#8221; said Scott Newlun, General Manager of the City and Borough of Yakutat Power Company. &#8220;I strongly believe that ocean energy will eventually become a large part of the world&#8217;s renewable energy mix, and we&#8217;re hopeful that Yakutat will be the site of the first commercial wave energy project in the United States.&#8221;



Read more at Alaskan Wave Energy Project Receives Project Management Support | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Fossil Fuels Receive $500 Billion A Year In Government Subsidies Worldwide*




> Producers of oil, gas and coal received more than $500 billion in government subsidies around the world in 2011, with the richest nations collectively spending more than $70 billion every year to support fossil fuels.
> 
> Those are the findings of a recent report by the Overseas Development Institute, a think tank based in the United Kingdom.
> 
> &#8220;If their aim is to avoid dangerous climate change, governments are shooting themselves in both feet,&#8221; the report, headed by ODI research fellow Shelagh Whitley, said. &#8220;They are subsidizing the very activities that are pushing the world towards dangerous climate change, and creating barriers to investment in low-carbon development and subsidy incentives that encourage investment in carbon-intensive energy.&#8221;
> 
> While the report acknowledges there is currently no globally agreed definition of what constitutes a subsidy, it cites the World Trade Organization&#8217;s approach: &#8220;a subsidy is any financial contribution by a government, or agent of a government, that confers a benefit on its recipient.&#8221;



Read more at Fossil Fuels Receive $500 Billion A Year In Government Subsidies Worldwide | CleanTechnica


----------



## RGR

USGS announces 500+ billion barrels of oil available in future reserve growth.

USGS Release: USGS Releases Global Oil & Gas Reserve Growth Estimates (6/18/2012 11:42:10 AM)

and another 500+ billion barrels of oil yet to be discovered, just waiting around for when it is needed.

World?s Oil and Gas Endowment | Science Features

Next 40+ years of oil ready to go....


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Beijing To Fight Air Pollution By Making 40% Of All New Cars Hybrids*



> China&#8217;s rapid commercial growth has led to almost inconceivable air pollution in its major cities. In the last month alone, high levels of pollution have forced China to all but shut down the northeastern city of Harbin, a major city with a population of nearly 11 million people. In addition to threatening the country&#8217;s deadliest polluters with heavy fines and, hilariously, the death penalty, Beijing is taking another step to clean its air: by 2017, a full 40% of new vehicle number plates will be set aside for &#8220;new energy&#8221; vehicles, effectively acting as a 40% hybrid/electric mandate.
> 
> In addition to the &#8220;clean car mandate&#8221; that I just invented, Beijing will take the somewhat drastic step of cutting the number of new plates it will issue. Beijing will issue only 150,000 new license plates, down from 240,000 each year now. As in the US, all cars must carry plates before they can be driven on public roads.



Beijing to Fight Air Pollution by Making 40% of All New Cars Hybrids


----------



## PMZ

Video of how the Tesla is assembled. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8_lfxPI5ObM&desktop_uri=/watch?v=8_lfxPI5ObM

The future of the auto industry.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Alstom Completes World&#8217;s Largest Offshore Wind Turbine*



> French engineering company Alstom have announced the completion of their at-sea installation of its new-generation offshore wind turbine, the 6-MW Haliade 150, located off Ostend Harbour at the Belwind site in Belgium.
> 
> The turbine, the largest offshore wind turbine ever installed in sea waters, boasts a 78 metre tower, a nacelle that stands 100 metres above the waves, blades over 73 metres in length, and pillars sunk over 60 metres into the seabed to support the mammoth construction.
> 
> As a result of its impressive specifications, the Haliade sports a yield 15% better than existing offshore turbines, allowing it to power approximately 5,000 households on its own.



Read more at Alstom Completes World's Largest Offshore Wind Turbine | CleanTechnica


----------



## PMZ

Matthew said:


> *Alstom Completes Worlds Largest Offshore Wind Turbine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French engineering company Alstom have announced the completion of their at-sea installation of its new-generation offshore wind turbine, the 6-MW Haliade 150, located off Ostend Harbour at the Belwind site in Belgium.
> 
> The turbine, the largest offshore wind turbine ever installed in sea waters, boasts a 78 metre tower, a nacelle that stands 100 metres above the waves, blades over 73 metres in length, and pillars sunk over 60 metres into the seabed to support the mammoth construction.
> 
> As a result of its impressive specifications, the Haliade sports a yield 15% better than existing offshore turbines, allowing it to power approximately 5,000 households on its own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at Alstom Completes World's Largest Offshore Wind Turbine | CleanTechnica
Click to expand...


We are limited only by our imagination.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Limitless it is...Only stoppable from idiots on the right.

*Battery-powered clothes draw power from the sun*



> As a science fiction fan, I&#8217;ve spent my life waiting for the day the government offers matching silver bodysuits to everyone. Instead, said government spends its time barely operating, and all we get is battery-powered clothing.
> 
> On second thought, electronic clothing is way cooler than matching bodysuits. That industry is slowly gaining momentum, and it includes a fairly vast array of possibilities. At present, it&#8217;s almost totally speculation, because there&#8217;s always been the issue of powering electronic clothing. That hurdle may have finally been jumped. A journal piece in ACA Journal Nano Letters announced the creation of solar-powered batteries that can be woven into textiles. The electrode composite and nickel would literally be inside the fiber strands woven into a shirt.


Battery-powered clothes draw power from the sun | DVICE


----------



## PMZ

Matthew said:


> Limitless it is...Only stoppable from idiots on the right.
> 
> *Battery-powered clothes draw power from the sun*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a science fiction fan, Ive spent my life waiting for the day the government offers matching silver bodysuits to everyone. Instead, said government spends its time barely operating, and all we get is battery-powered clothing.
> 
> On second thought, electronic clothing is way cooler than matching bodysuits. That industry is slowly gaining momentum, and it includes a fairly vast array of possibilities. At present, its almost totally speculation, because theres always been the issue of powering electronic clothing. That hurdle may have finally been jumped. A journal piece in ACA Journal Nano Letters announced the creation of solar-powered batteries that can be woven into textiles. The electrode composite and nickel would literally be inside the fiber strands woven into a shirt.
> 
> 
> 
> Battery-powered clothes draw power from the sun | DVICE
Click to expand...


What makes conservatives so is lack of imagination.  If it wasn't real in the past,  it can't be in the future.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Matthew said:


> New electric cars? New power plants??? Wind farms, solar farms, nuclear plants??? New products.  Post them! Post news on the Chevy volt, Telsa s, x, etc.
> 
> This isn't so much for the newest innovation in energy tech as the other thread is all about that.
> 
> *Cree Releases Highest Efficacy Color LEDs, & More*
> 
> 
> June 27, 2013  Zachary Shahan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XPE2_Warm_medCree, a leader in LEDs, recently announced the commercial availability of XLamp® XP-E2 color LEDs. According to the company, XP-E2 color LEDs produce up to 88% higher maximum light output than competing high-power color LEDs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at Cree Releases Highest Efficacy Color LEDs, & More... | CleanTechnica
Click to expand...


Toyota Honda and others are offering hydrogen fuel celled electric cars this

next year

ends the battery problem that most consumers do not like 

Toyota Challenges Tesla With Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Car - Yahoo Finance


----------



## jon_berzerk

Honda FCX Clarity - Videos and Commercials - Official Web Site


----------



## PMZ

jon_berzerk said:


> Honda FCX Clarity - Videos and Commercials - Official Web Site



Is it available here?


----------



## RGR

jon_berzerk said:


> Toyota Honda and others are offering hydrogen fuel celled electric cars this
> 
> next year
> 
> ends the battery problem that most consumers do not like



Except those of us who own them anyway.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Toyota Honda and others are offering hydrogen fuel celled electric cars this
> 
> next year
> 
> ends the battery problem that most consumers do not like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except those of us who own them anyway.
Click to expand...


Hard to understand people throwing away twice as much on gasoline, as they need to, waiting for perfect technology. 

I expect that every new car that I buy from now on will be substantially different technology.


----------



## jon_berzerk

PMZ said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Toyota Honda and others are offering hydrogen fuel celled electric cars this
> 
> next year
> 
> ends the battery problem that most consumers do not like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except those of us who own them anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard to understand people throwing away twice as much on gasoline, as they need to, waiting for perfect technology.
> 
> I expect that every new car that I buy from now on will be substantially different technology.
Click to expand...


as long as i can refill it quick and fast 

and get at least a couple of hundred miles at a go 

oh and have heat 

i am all for it


----------



## PMZ

jon_berzerk said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except those of us who own them anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to understand people throwing away twice as much on gasoline, as they need to, waiting for perfect technology.
> 
> I expect that every new car that I buy from now on will be substantially different technology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> as long as i can refill it quick and fast
> 
> and get at least a couple of hundred miles at a go
> 
> oh and have heat
> 
> i am all for it
Click to expand...


Prius.  Volt.  Corolla hybrid.  Civic hybrid.  Lots of choice.


----------



## jon_berzerk

PMZ said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to understand people throwing away twice as much on gasoline, as they need to, waiting for perfect technology.
> 
> I expect that every new car that I buy from now on will be substantially different technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as long as i can refill it quick and fast
> 
> and get at least a couple of hundred miles at a go
> 
> oh and have heat
> 
> i am all for it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prius.  Volt.  Corolla hybrid.  Civic hybrid.  Lots of choice.
Click to expand...


all dependent on fossil fuel 

a no go 

battery lives to short 

another no go


----------



## PMZ

jon_berzerk said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> as long as i can refill it quick and fast
> 
> and get at least a couple of hundred miles at a go
> 
> oh and have heat
> 
> i am all for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prius.  Volt.  Corolla hybrid.  Civic hybrid.  Lots of choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> all dependent on fossil fuel
> 
> a no go
> 
> battery lives to short
> 
> another no go
Click to expand...


Using less fossil fuel is a necessary step towards no fossil fuels.


----------



## ScienceRocks

More nuclear and fusion would end co2 emissions.


----------



## RGR

jon_berzerk said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I expect that every new car that I buy from now on will be substantially different technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as long as i can refill it quick and fast
> 
> and get at least a couple of hundred miles at a go
> 
> oh and have heat
> 
> i am all for it
Click to expand...


I can do all of those things. And...when I don't require ALL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME, I can motor around for months not even needing to stop in at the local extortion store to buy liquid fuels.


----------



## RGR

jon_berzerk said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prius.  Volt.  Corolla hybrid.  Civic hybrid.  Lots of choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all dependent on fossil fuel
> 
> a no go
> 
> battery lives to short
> 
> another no go
Click to expand...


My battery in the Volt is working just fine. Just like the ones in the two hybrids I had before it. And "dependent" is relative....I can motor around for months and not need to fill my tank up. The good news in all of this is that, obviously, we have plenty of fossil fuels around, but as good alternatives become available, we can CHOOSE to not use them for doing something so stupid as random personal transport with such a valuable chemical feedstock.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Using less fossil fuel is a necessary step towards no fossil fuels.



BINGO!! Not only necessary, but COMPLETELY NATURAL. For example, most folks won't jump right from their 12 mpg F350 dually into a Prius...maybe they try out something like an F150 with ecoboost first, using half the fuel. Then they move on to a Fiesta, using half the fuel again. Then they realize that when it is nice in the summer, they can bicycle or ride a scooter, eliminating even the use of the cage for months at a time.

And then one day they can graduate! Electric Focus, C-Max, plugable Prius or Fusion, Volt, Leaf, the choices on how NOT to use liquid fuels are piling up pretty fast as of late.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using less fossil fuel is a necessary step towards no fossil fuels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BINGO!! Not only necessary, but COMPLETELY NATURAL. For example, most folks won't jump right from their 12 mpg F350 dually into a Prius...maybe they try out something like an F150 with ecoboost first, using half the fuel. Then they move on to a Fiesta, using half the fuel again. Then they realize that when it is nice in the summer, they can bicycle or ride a scooter, eliminating even the use of the cage for months at a time.
> 
> And then one day they can graduate! Electric Focus, C-Max, plugable Prius or Fusion, Volt, Leaf, the choices on how NOT to use liquid fuels are piling up pretty fast as of late.
Click to expand...


People seem oblivious to the undeniable fact that we are pioneers in a huge change for all mankind that will be going on for 100+ years.  The more we do now the less traumatic the change will be,  but no matter what we do,  it will not be easy. 

Many of us can do things today that actually save us money.  But before it's over there will be a dent in everyone's wallet.  

Humanity has been the beneficiary of a huge but temporary gift of low cost energy from the sun's past.  

It's nearly over.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*US Solar PV Pipeline Grows To 43 GW*



> The United States currently has in excess of 43 GW currently waiting in its solar PV project pipeline awaiting completion, up 7% during the past 12 months and &#8212; upon completion &#8212; enough to power 6 million US homes. Furthermore, where previously it was large projects sized over 100 MW that dominated the US PV pipeline, that has shifted, according to research done by NPD Solarbuzz, shifting to smaller projects up to 30 MW in size.
> 
> &#8220;The increase in new solar PV projects being planned or under construction is driving double-digit annual growth forecasts for PV adoption within the United States,&#8221; said Michael Barker, senior analyst at NPD Solarbuzz. &#8220;Large-scale PV projects exceeding 20 megawatts continue to dominate the pipeline, in terms of installed capacity, stimulated by state-based renewable portfolio mandates. Projects of all sizes have become increasingly viable, due to declines in solar PV system pricing in the past year.&#8221;


Read more at US Solar PV Pipeline Grows To 43 GW | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Japan Attains 3.9 GW Of PV Installations Since FiT Introduction*




> Since Japan&#8217;s feed-in tariff (FiT) was introduced (July 2012), its solar photovoltaic generation capacity installed has amounted to 3.9 GW. In all, approximately 4.086 GW of renewable power generation capacity was added since July 2012, including solar, wind, small and medium-sized hydroelectric, biomass, and geothermal.
> 
> Solar accounted for 90% of the renewable energy capacity added in that time period, according to the Japanese Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI), which sees this is an indication that its adoption of solar power is proceeding smoothly. 3.9 GW of growth over 16 months is at the top of the league. (This is an average of about a quarter of a GW per month).



Read more at Japan Attains 3.9 GW Of PV Capacity Since FiT Introduction


----------



## jon_berzerk

RGR said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prius.  Volt.  Corolla hybrid.  Civic hybrid.  Lots of choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all dependent on fossil fuel
> 
> a no go
> 
> battery lives to short
> 
> another no go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My battery in the Volt is working just fine. Just like the ones in the two hybrids I had before it. And "dependent" is relative....I can motor around for months and not need to fill my tank up. The good news in all of this is that, obviously, we have plenty of fossil fuels around, but as good alternatives become available, we can CHOOSE to not use them for doing something so stupid as random personal transport with such a valuable chemical feedstock.
Click to expand...


*My battery in the Volt is working just fine*

im sure it is 

for the first 40 miles 

then it is done for the rest of the trip 

until a several hour recharge 

if it is good for you great 

not for me though

 im going to go with the hydrogen fuel cell 

zero harmful emissions 

does not use fossil fuels 

refills as quick as a jack rabbit 

the advantages of hydrogen/electric fuels 

far out weigh the volt


----------



## PMZ

jon_berzerk said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> all dependent on fossil fuel
> 
> a no go
> 
> battery lives to short
> 
> another no go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My battery in the Volt is working just fine. Just like the ones in the two hybrids I had before it. And "dependent" is relative....I can motor around for months and not need to fill my tank up. The good news in all of this is that, obviously, we have plenty of fossil fuels around, but as good alternatives become available, we can CHOOSE to not use them for doing something so stupid as random personal transport with such a valuable chemical feedstock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *My battery in the Volt is working just fine*
> 
> im sure it is
> 
> for the first 40 miles
> 
> then it is done for the rest of the trip
> 
> until a several hour recharge
> 
> if it is good for you great
> 
> not for me though
> 
> im going to go with the hydrogen fuel cell
> 
> zero harmful emissions
> 
> does not use fossil fuels
> 
> refills as quick as a jack rabbit
> 
> the advantages of hydrogen/electric fuels
> 
> far out weigh the volt
Click to expand...


Your choice.  Enjoy it.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Humanity has been the beneficiary of a huge but temporary gift of low cost energy from the sun's past.
> 
> It's nearly over.



If by "nearly over" you mean "we've only used 1/6 of the stuff we can build gasoline with" then okaysure. But it took us more than a century to go through the first 1/6, that other 5/6 laying around might look "temporary" but "temporary" will reach well beyond your lifetime, or mine.


----------



## RGR

jon_berzerk said:


> *My battery in the Volt is working just fine*
> 
> im sure it is
> 
> for the first 40 miles



Yup. And fortunately, in America where 75% of folks are commuting less than 40 miles a day, this isn't just a touchdown, its a win!

And this is good.



			
				jon_berzerk said:
			
		

> then it is done for the rest of the trip



Yup. Which is why it only solves the commuting problem for 75% of Americans. The other 25% should KNOW better than to live far away from work, it WASTES fuel!



			
				Jon_berzerk said:
			
		

> im going to go with the hydrogen fuel cell
> 
> zero harmful emissions
> 
> does not use fossil fuels
> 
> refills as quick as a jack rabbit
> 
> the advantages of hydrogen/electric fuels
> 
> far out weigh the volt



You know what they make the hydrogen from, right? Mostly natural gas. Sorry about your dreams of not using fossil fuels.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Humanity has been the beneficiary of a huge but temporary gift of low cost energy from the sun's past.
> 
> It's nearly over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If by "nearly over" you mean "we've only used 1/6 of the stuff we can build gasoline with" then okaysure. But it took us more than a century to go through the first 1/6, that other 5/6 laying around might look "temporary" but "temporary" will reach well beyond your lifetime, or mine.
Click to expand...


We have used up all of the affordable to obtain supply of fossil fuels.  We are working down the back side of the supply curve while developing countries are driving demand to record levels every year. 

I don't have that many years left but it is going to take 100+ years to completely retool the entire energy system to sustainable.  I personally think much longer.  It takes nearly 20 years to design,  permit,  construct and commission one nuke plant. 

So doing more nothing will be catastrophic to civilization.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My battery in the Volt is working just fine*
> 
> im sure it is
> 
> for the first 40 miles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. And fortunately, in America where 75% of folks are commuting less than 40 miles a day, this isn't just a touchdown, its a win!
> 
> And this is good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then it is done for the rest of the trip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup. Which is why it only solves the commuting problem for 75% of Americans. The other 25% should KNOW better than to live far away from work, it WASTES fuel!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im going to go with the hydrogen fuel cell
> 
> zero harmful emissions
> 
> does not use fossil fuels
> 
> refills as quick as a jack rabbit
> 
> the advantages of hydrogen/electric fuels
> 
> far out weigh the volt
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know what they make the hydrogen from, right? Mostly natural gas. Sorry about your dreams of not using fossil fuels.
Click to expand...


If you make hydrogen from natural gas the carbon in it ends up in the atmosphere just like burning it. 

A better supply is the electrolysis of water using more electricity than is needed to power the same electric cars from batteries.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Citing Too Many Deaths From Air Pollution, Polish City Says Goodbye To Coal*



> From the years 1038 to 1569, the ancient city of Krakow was known as the capital of Poland. In 2000, it became known as the official European Capital of Culture. Now, it known for having some of the most polluted air in Europe.
> 
> This is largely because of emissions from coal, a fuel that makes up about 90 percent of the country&#8217;s electricity. The majority &#8212; about 50 percent &#8212; of Krakow&#8217;s winter air pollution comes from coal-powered domestic stoves. The other half comes from traffic and power plants.
> 
> But despite winter fast approaching, Krakow has taken an unprecedented step of banning coal for the purpose of home-heating. On Monday, local Krakow officials voted to ban residential wood and coal-burning come 2018. As of now, 35,000 households in the central area of Krakow use coal for heating, according to the BBC.
> 
> &#8220;Hundreds of people are dying each year because of air pollution,&#8221; Deputy Marshal of the assembly Wojciech Kozak said in a statement. &#8220;This resolution is a precedent on a national scale, it will introduce many changes in Poland and the region.&#8221;
> 
> The vote was a partially a result of a two-year campaign by the Krakowski Alarm Smogowy, a human health advocacy group dedicated to improving air quality in the city. But they were not the only ones fighting against coal use and air pollution.
> 
> &#8220;People in Krakow actually hate coal,&#8221; Andrzej Gula, a campaigner for cleaner air in the city, told the BBC. &#8220;They know it is the major source of the problem, they are demanding that politicians do something about this.&#8221;



Citing Too Many Deaths From Air Pollution, Polish City Says Goodbye To Coal | ThinkProgress


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> We have used up all of the affordable to obtain supply of fossil fuels.



Bullshit. Or, if you prefer, a comment that even the 3rd grade level understanding of resources peak oilers employ would be embarrassed to make, and they are REALLY stupid.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> We are working down the back side of the supply curve while developing countries are driving demand to record levels every year.



To which supply curve do you refer?



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> I don't have that many years left but it is going to take 100+ years to completely retool the entire energy system to sustainable.  I personally think much longer.  It takes nearly 20 years to design,  permit,  construct and commission one nuke plant.
> 
> So doing more nothing will be catastrophic to civilization.



Whoever confuses the transition happening all around us Americans as "nothing"? A decade ago I was forced to buy mid sized sedans that only got only 30mpg. Nowadays I can buy multiple forms of transport from multiple manufacturers that don't even NEED liquid fuels to transport my butt around town, and my newest mid sized car is returning 38mpg and isn't even broken in yet.

It is difficult to see change while it is happening all around us, and I suppose those who haven't been to a car dealership to see the transition laid out before joe consumer, or who hasn't driven through Kansas to see the horizon to horizon windmill construction, could be fooled into thinking nothing is happening.

But that is ityou are being fooled if you think a transition isn't already afoot, and some of us early adopters are quite happy with how much we can reduce our fossil fuel consumption without even a change in lifestyle, while saving money at the same time! And this is good! Please sir, don't throw me into the transition briar patch again!


----------



## ScienceRocks

*US' Biggest Landfill To Become New York City's Biggest Solar Project*



> New Hampshire, USA -- What was once the largest landfill on the planet is being partly reinvented, and solar energy will be playing a big role in that.
> 
> New York City will convert roughly 47 acres of land at the Freshkills Park on Staten Island into a 10-MW solar installation, five times bigger than any other system in the city and boosting the city's renewable energy by 50 percent, according to officials. SunEdison, which won the public bidding process, will lease the land to design, build, and operate the facility, with construction reportedly beginning in late 2015 and online within a year.
> 
> Freshkills opened more than half a century ago and quickly became the largest landfill in the world; at its peak in the 1980s it took in tens of thousands of garbage per day as the city's primary solid waste landfill, with four landfill mounds amounting to 150 million tons of solid waste. At one point it was the largest man-made structure, taller than the Statue of Liberty and reportedly visible from space. It was officially closed in 2001, though it was brought back to temporary service to help sort through Sept. 11 material. A landfill gas recovery operation has been in place since then.



US' Biggest Landfill To Become New York City's Biggest Solar Project

Good use for the land!


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have used up all of the affordable to obtain supply of fossil fuels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. Or, if you prefer, a comment that even the 3rd grade level understanding of resources peak oilers employ would be embarrassed to make, and they are REALLY stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are working down the back side of the supply curve while developing countries are driving demand to record levels every year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To which supply curve do you refer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have that many years left but it is going to take 100+ years to completely retool the entire energy system to sustainable.  I personally think much longer.  It takes nearly 20 years to design,  permit,  construct and commission one nuke plant.
> 
> So doing more nothing will be catastrophic to civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whoever confuses the transition happening all around us Americans as "nothing"? A decade ago I was forced to buy mid sized sedans that only got only 30mpg. Nowadays I can buy multiple forms of transport from multiple manufacturers that don't even NEED liquid fuels to transport my butt around town, and my newest mid sized car is returning 38mpg and isn't even broken in yet.
> 
> It is difficult to see change while it is happening all around us, and I suppose those who haven't been to a car dealership to see the transition laid out before joe consumer, or who hasn't driven through Kansas to see the horizon to horizon windmill construction, could be fooled into thinking nothing is happening.
> 
> But that is ityou are being fooled if you think a transition isn't already afoot, and some of us early adopters are quite happy with how much we can reduce our fossil fuel consumption without even a change in lifestyle, while saving money at the same time! And this is good! Please sir, don't throw me into the transition briar patch again!
Click to expand...


I'm on your side.  There is a lot of good stuff going on but also stiff resistance from those who have been recruited by big oil to help keep the status quo. There are still huge profits to be made on the dregs of fossil fuels but every sustainable energy generator and every energy efficient consumer is a threat to that money. 

We can't let up on progress.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*New Solar Cell Is More Efficient, Less Costly *





> American innovators still have some cards to play when it comes to squeezing more efficiency and lower costs out of silicon, the workhorse of solar photovoltaic (PV) cells and modules worldwide.
> 
> 
> A recent breakthrough &#8212; the product of a partnership between manufacturer TetraSun and the Energy Department's National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) &#8212; could spark U.S. solar manufacturing when the approach hits the assembly line next year. The innovative design, simple architecture, and elegant process flow for fabricating the cells make the technology a prime candidate for large-scale production.
> 
> Solar industry leader First Solar acquired TetraSun in April 2013, about the time R&D Magazine honored TetraSun and NREL with one of its coveted R&D 100 Awards for the year's top innovations.
> Potentially Disruptive Technology Attracted Attention of PV Incubator Program
> 
> Typically, silicon PV cell manufacturers add a grid of thin silver lines to the cell via a screen-printing process to form the front contacts.
> 
> The TetraSun cell instead loads 50-micron-wide copper electrodes on its front contacts in a way that prevents diffusion of the metal &#8212; which can degrade performance. The new process exceeds the performance of traditional heterojunction cells without the need of any special equipment, complicated module assembly, or costly transparent conductive oxides. That adds up to a significant cost advantage when it comes to high-volume manufacturing.
> 
> "It's a potentially disruptive technology, and that's why we decided to work with TetraSun," said NREL's Martha Symko-Davies, who headed the Energy Department's SunShot Initiative PV Incubator program when TetraSun received a grant from it back in 2010. "The Incubator program supports potentially disruptive innovations from small startups.


New Solar Cell Is More Efficient, Less Costly


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Report: record 3rd quarter for world PV demand*
Report: record 3rd quarter for world PV demand - Solar Tribune




> According to the latest NPD Solarbuzz Quarterly report, global solar demand reached a Q3 record of 9 GW in the third quarter of 2013.
> 
> That&#8217;s up 6 percent from Q2 2013, and almost 20 percent higher year-on-year, and when combined, demand from Q2 and Q3 exceeded 17 GW.
> 
> &#8220;The record levels of mid-year demand in 2013 have been critical to the overall recovery of the solar PV sector,&#8221; said Michael Barker, a senior analyst at NPD Solarbuzz.
> 
> &#8220;Restored confidence in end-market growth is allowing leading solar PV manufacturers to pursue aggressive shipment strategies within both established and emerging territories, despite previous concerns that trade wars could dampen growth,&#8221; he said, referring to the tariffs and countervailing duties that have been imposed across the U.S., Europe and China.
> 
> The report also noted that the price of PV is moderating after a solid decline over the past few years. Module prices fell 12 percent between Q2 and Q3 2012, compared to just a one percent decline over the same period in 2013.
> 
> Global solar PV revenue is forecast to be around $65 &#8211; $75 billion for 2013, compared to $68 billion in 2012, and $92 billion in 2011. In 2011, PV system prices were up to 50 percent higher than in 2013; the bounce back in revenue expected this year is testament to strong demand.
> 
> The research firm predicts that next year, global PV demand will reach around 45-55 GW, with over half coming from the Asia Pacific region, and ten percent from emerging regions.
> 
> NPD Solarbuzz also expects strong demand in the UK and Japan in the first quarter of 2014, with firms taking up advantageous policy incentives due to change in April 2014.



Report: record 3rd quarter for world PV demand - Solar Tribune


----------



## ScienceRocks

Solar is kicking ass and isn't going anywhere!


----------



## ScienceRocks

*US Plug-in Electric Vehicle Sales Blow Past 150,000*



> In May, US plug-in electric vehicle sales hit the 100,000 marker, with an Alabama Mitsubishi i owner purchasing the 100,000 plug-in electric vehicle (more or less). Just about 6 months later, US plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) sales have passed the 150,000 marker, according to Plug In America&#8217;s PEV sales counter. No word on who bought the 150,000th PEV or what the model was &#8212; maybe we should check with Plug In America.
> 
> All in all, that&#8217;s pretty rapid growth, and it indicates that we&#8217;d be on track to double the number of plug-in electric vehicles in one year&#8217;s time. However, I&#8217;d bet all my savings that we will actually hit 200,000 in less than 6 months. Electric vehicles sales growth is&#8230; growing. Furthermore, new EV models are continuously being added. The BMW i3 (which I love) is getting ready for rollout in the US, as is the Volkswagen e-Golf and perhaps the Volkswagen e-Up!, and probably several other PEVs.
> 
> 
> At the moment, though, we&#8217;re already seeing about 361% year-over-year sales growth of 100% electric vehicles and 34% year-over-year sales growth of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles in the US. Not too shabby, eh?


Read more at US Plug-in Electric Vehicle Sales Blow Past 150,000 | CleanTechnica


----------



## ScienceRocks

Things I'd like to see for my state Oregon
1. The last coal plant shut down
2. 1gw solar farm in eastern Oregon over the desert. We're failing in solar 
3. Get to 5 gw wind by 2015 
4. Start shutting down the natural gas plants as new power comes on board.


----------



## PMZ

Matthew said:


> Things I'd like to see for my state Oregon
> 1. The last coal plant shut down
> 2. 1gw solar farm in eastern Oregon over the desert. We're failing in solar
> 3. Get to 5 gw wind by 2015
> 4. Start shutting down the natural gas plants as new power comes on board.



The world has gone from fits and starts to relentless progress.  The rate of that progress will pick up every year.  Of course the impact of AGW fueled extreme weather ramps up unremittingly also. 

Common sense will ultimately prevail but we will undoubtedly spend more than had to be, due to denier politics.


----------



## Old Rocks

Matthew said:


> Things I'd like to see for my state Oregon
> 1. The last coal plant shut down
> 2. 1gw solar farm in eastern Oregon over the desert. We're failing in solar
> 3. Get to 5 gw wind by 2015
> 4. Start shutting down the natural gas plants as new power comes on board.



The basins in Eastern Oregon have hot aquifers under them. Hot water geo-thermal in conjunction with wind and solar would make that region a major power producer,.


----------



## PMZ

Old Rocks said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Things I'd like to see for my state Oregon
> 1. The last coal plant shut down
> 2. 1gw solar farm in eastern Oregon over the desert. We're failing in solar
> 3. Get to 5 gw wind by 2015
> 4. Start shutting down the natural gas plants as new power comes on board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The basins in Eastern Oregon have hot aquifers under them. Hot water geo-thermal in conjunction with wind and solar would make that region a major power producer,.
Click to expand...


So many fuel-less and waste-less sources.


----------



## ScienceRocks

PMZ said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Things I'd like to see for my state Oregon
> 1. The last coal plant shut down
> 2. 1gw solar farm in eastern Oregon over the desert. We're failing in solar
> 3. Get to 5 gw wind by 2015
> 4. Start shutting down the natural gas plants as new power comes on board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The basins in Eastern Oregon have hot aquifers under them. Hot water geo-thermal in conjunction with wind and solar would make that region a major power producer,.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So many fuel-less and waste-less sources.
Click to expand...


Limitless renewables that our nation could use to make our country much more efferent and independent. Imagine how much less long term cost an infrastructure of wind, solar, hydro-thermal and hydro would be? No trains, no trucks, no problem!

Build + attach to grid = 20-40 years of not worrying. 
No digging holes
No fracking 
No fucking up the oceans and air
No risking men in mines
Less air pollution = less disease and death.
= winning.

Heck our congress could mandate all new homes to have solar units on their roofs. Possibly 1 kw of energy(1/3rd of typical energy needs) to start out with...A package of solar windows could also be added "if" the buyer wants it.

Our federal government has the power to force businesses to attach calorie information and regulate. --->  http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/22/solar-mandate-approved-by-sebastopol-california/

Buy new home and get the choice to get 
Solar windows
and added solar on top of the 1 kw.

This would do more to cut down on grid energy then anything and this would go a long ways in ending our dependence on middle east anything.

For the grid energy we should set a goal of 
1. 10, 2 gw nuclear plants by 2035
2. 200 gw more of wind power by 2025
3. industrial solar of 100 gw more by 2030
4. 30 gw more of hydro-thermal by 2030
5. 10 gw of wave

As we get new energy resources on line = shutting down coal and other co2 admitting sources. 

Maybe we could add more but this is a general outline of a good plan. My estimate is it would cost about as much as the Iraq war/nation building over the decade.

Of course we will have to develop a energy storage system to spread the load throughout time.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But that is ityou are being fooled if you think a transition isn't already afoot, and some of us early adopters are quite happy with how much we can reduce our fossil fuel consumption without even a change in lifestyle, while saving money at the same time! And this is good! Please sir, don't throw me into the transition briar patch again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on your side.  There is a lot of good stuff going on but also stiff resistance from those who have been recruited by big oil to help keep the status quo. There are still huge profits to be made on the dregs of fossil fuels but every sustainable energy generator and every energy efficient consumer is a threat to that money.
> 
> We can't let up on progress.
Click to expand...


Stiff resistance will be crushed by the economics of change, natural or manmade. 

Tax imported crude oil to $250/bbl tomorrow afternoon. That should provide a nice floor under which alternatives can flourish. Double the price of electricity for everyone, and use those revenues to put panels on the roofs of anyone who asks for them. Unfortunate that basic economics gets ignored in our world of NIMBYs and fools, but certainly that doesn't mean we can't make our individual choices. 

Myself, it started with paying extortion to the jihadist support centers on every street corner with those little numbers setting the daily contribution to folks who want to kill us. Give me freedom from liquid fuels or give me death!


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> Solar is kicking ass and isn't going anywhere!



Good. 

Now if only the morons who disparage natural gas would just stop whining and let us phase out more coal fired plants, or better yet get some decent CNG distribution points going, it would be ALL good!


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> As we get new energy resources on line = shutting down coal and other co2 admitting sources.



As long as that isn't the excuse. Otherwise it just becomes yet another way to off the people we don't likeyou are as much a CO2 emitter as our power systems.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*China Coal-Fired Economy Dying of Thirst as Mines Lack Water*



> At first glance, Daliuta in northern China appears to have a river running through it. A closer look reveals the stretch of water in the center is a pond, dammed at both ends. Beyond the barriers, the Wulanmulun&#8217;s bed is dry.
> 
> Daliuta in Shaanxi province sits on top of the world&#8217;s biggest underground coal mine, which requires millions of liters of water a day for extracting, washing and processing the fuel. The town is the epicenter of a looming collision between China&#8217;s increasingly scarce supplies of water and its plan to power economic growth with coal.


China Coal-Fired Economy Dying of Thirst as Mines Lack Water - Bloomberg

There isn't one damn thing good about coal. China should mandate all homes install solar energy....


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we get new energy resources on line = shutting down coal and other co2 admitting sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as that isn't the excuse. Otherwise it just becomes yet another way to off the people we don't likeyou are as much a CO2 emitter as our power systems.
Click to expand...


Earth's atmosphere started off CO2 rich.  The evolution of plant life turned it oxygen rich.  That promoted animal life.  As animal life grew,  some oxygen was turned back into CO2. Then,  during the Carboniferous Period much of that carbon  became sequestered underground in plant material that was buried and or frozen before it could rot.  That created roughly the current atmospheric balance. The two life forms have kept the current balance in effect  for 100s of million years. 

As we burn fossil fuels,  that sequestered carbon is put back in the atmosphere,  creating,  to some degree,  the pre Carboniferous climate. 

Fortunately,  technology exists today to replace those fossil fuels before the carbon genie is completely out of the bag, giving us the potential to mitigate some of the AGW powered extreme weather that's been so costly. 

We just have to do it.


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> There isn't one damn thing good about coal. China should mandate all homes install solar energy....



Advocating fascism as a solution to how people generate their power doesn't sound like a good idea to me.


----------



## ScienceRocks

I have my doubt we could save our selves from a asteroid. Truly we can't do it over many decades against global warming.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't one damn thing good about coal. China should mandate all homes install solar energy....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advocating fascism as a solution to how people generate their power doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
Click to expand...


Not burning dirty fuels is fascism????


----------



## ScienceRocks

*California Has Now Mandated (Some) Energy Storage*




> After two and half years of debate, the California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) has finalized a decision that the state&#8217;s investor-owned utilities must  begin buying a combined 200 megawatts of energy storage technology by 2014 and reaching 1.3 gigawatts (1,325 megawatts) by the end of 2020.
> 
> All 5 CPUC Commissioners approved the landmark decision. In her introductory comments, Commissioner Carla Peterman stated, &#8220;I believe energy storage has great potential to help us address grid reliability and renewables integration issues. This decision is an important and appropriate step, especially considering the leadership role California has and continues to play in advancing progressive energy policy.&#8221;
> 
> PG&E, SCE and SDG&E will soon be directed to file a procurement application on or before March 1, 2014 that would contain a proposal for the first energy storage procurement cycle, including the first competitive solicitation.



Read more at California Has Now Mandated (Some) Energy Storage


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> *California Has Now Mandated (Some) Energy Storage*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After two and half years of debate, the California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) has finalized a decision that the states investor-owned utilities must  begin buying a combined 200 megawatts of energy storage technology by 2014 and reaching 1.3 gigawatts (1,325 megawatts) by the end of 2020.
> 
> All 5 CPUC Commissioners approved the landmark decision. In her introductory comments, Commissioner Carla Peterman stated, I believe energy storage has great potential to help us address grid reliability and renewables integration issues. This decision is an important and appropriate step, especially considering the leadership role California has and continues to play in advancing progressive energy policy.
> 
> PG&E, SCE and SDG&E will soon be directed to file a procurement application on or before March 1, 2014 that would contain a proposal for the first energy storage procurement cycle, including the first competitive solicitation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at California Has Now Mandated (Some) Energy Storage
Click to expand...


The true costs of trying to integrate larger percentages of sketchy power onto the the grid are gonna astound and amaze the public.  See the thread on "Renewables now more expensive in Cali"  Literally Calis are looking at BILLIONS for building football field size storage barns all over the state..   Think these costsmare gonna be properly added to the renewable costs of operation?  NAWWW.......

Go look at that thread and see what 500Mill dollar battery srorage facility looks like..  What an enviro nightmare that is gonna be....


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> *California Has Now Mandated (Some) Energy Storage*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After two and half years of debate, the California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) has finalized a decision that the states investor-owned utilities must  begin buying a combined 200 megawatts of energy storage technology by 2014 and reaching 1.3 gigawatts (1,325 megawatts) by the end of 2020.
> 
> All 5 CPUC Commissioners approved the landmark decision. In her introductory comments, Commissioner Carla Peterman stated, I believe energy storage has great potential to help us address grid reliability and renewables integration issues. This decision is an important and appropriate step, especially considering the leadership role California has and continues to play in advancing progressive energy policy.
> 
> PG&E, SCE and SDG&E will soon be directed to file a procurement application on or before March 1, 2014 that would contain a proposal for the first energy storage procurement cycle, including the first competitive solicitation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at California Has Now Mandated (Some) Energy Storage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The true costs of trying to integrate larger percentages of sketchy power onto the the grid are gonna astound and amaze the public.  See the thread on "Renewables now more expensive in Cali"  Literally Calis are looking at BILLIONS for building football field size storage barns all over the state..   Think these costsmare gonna be properly added to the renewable costs of operation?  NAWWW.......
> 
> Go look at that thread and see what 500Mill dollar battery srorage facility looks like..  What an enviro nightmare that is gonna be....
Click to expand...


I suspect that we'll end up solving this problem with smart metering.  High prices for zero flexibility and bargain prices when low cost power is available.  No new technology.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Juwi to construct 86 MW solar PV plant in South Africa*



> Sonnedix BV (Amsterdam) has chosen Juwi AG (Wörrstadt, Germany) to provide engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) services for an 86 MW solar photovoltaic (PV) plant in South Africa's Northern Cape province.
> 
> The Mulilo Sonnedix Prieska will be larger than any PV plant currently on line in the African continent, and was awarded through the third round of the South Africa's Renewable Energy Independent Power Producer Programme (REIPPP). Financial close on the project is targeted for July 2014, with commissioning planned for the second half of 2015.
> 
> &#8220;We are happy to be working with Juwi, one of the world&#8217;s most experienced EPC providers in the field of renewable energies to build our solar park,&#8221; states Sonnedix Solar President Franck Constant. &#8220;We feel confident that our project construction shall be in very good hands.&#8221;



KW48*|*Juwi to construct 86 MW solar PV plant in South Africa*-*SolarServer

It's good to see the black man investing in his country 

Here's the current largest solar farm in Africa.

*Scatec Solar commissions Africa's largest solar plant, the 75 MW Kalkbult solar PV plant*

http://www.solarserver.com/solar-ma...-plant-the-75-mw-kalkbult-solar-pv-plant.html


> On September 13th, 2013 Scatec Solar AS (Oslo, Norway) connected a 75 MW solar photovoltaic (PV) plant in South Africa's Northern Cape region to the grid, as the first PV project to be completed under the nation's Renewable Energy Independent Power Producer Programme (REIPPP).
> 
> Construction on the Kalkbult PV plant began immediately after financial close in November 2012. The Kalkbult plant is also the largest solar plant in operation on the African continent, and five times larger than the next-largest PV plant in Mauritania.
> 
> &#8220;I am very proud of our staff and contractors who have been able to complete this substantial project three months ahead of schedule, demonstrating how swiftly utility-scale solar energy plants could be built and put in operation,&#8221; said Scatec Solar CEO Raymond Carlsen.
> 
> &#8220;South African authorities are committed to implementing an ambitious renewable energy program, and we find great satisfaction in being able to contribute to its success through our own projects which we have actively been developing in South Africa over the last four years.&#8221;


 

*Enel to build 314 MW of solar PV projects in South Africa*



> South Africa's Department of Energy (DoE) has awarded Enel Green Power SpA (Rome) four solar photovoltaic (PV) projects totaling 314 MW through the third round of the nation's Renewable Energy Independent Power Producer Programme (REIPPP), as well as 199 MW of wind projects.
> 
> This represents 70% of the 450 MW of PV projects awarded in the third round, however DoE has stated that it may award additional PV projects to bidders. Per the rules of the REIPP, Enel is partnering with South African organizations that hold a 60% stake in the projects.



http://www.solarserver.com/solar-ma...-mw-of-solar-pv-projects-in-south-africa.html


*Ethiopia plans 300MW of solar*

http://www.rechargenews.com/solar/europe_africa/article1345203.ece
Updated: Friday, November 29 2013 
.



> US headquartered Global Trade and Development Consulting and project development partner Energy Ventures have been awarded a contract by the Ethiopian Ministry of Energy and state utility EEPCO to build a trio of 100MW solar farms in the eastern region of the country.
> 
> A feasibility study completed earlier this year has received both technical and financial approval from the government.
> 
> No date for groundbreaking on the projects was given.
> 
> &#8220;This project represents a significant advance in our Ethiopian energy initiative and is now part of our comprehensive Energy Plan," says energy minister Alemayehu Tegenu.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*China became the world's largest solar PV market in Q3; nation is poised to additional multi-GW deployment*


Solar Report*|*China became the world's largest solar PV market in Q3; nation is poised to additional multi-GW deployment*-*SolarServer


> In October 2013 NPD Solarbuzz Inc. (Santa Clara, California, U.S.) published a new analysis which estimates that China represented 25% of the 9 GW of solar photovoltaic (PV) demand in the third quarter of 2013.
> 
> &#8220;The emergence of China in driving PV demand is impacting both global end-market figures and is also having a profound impact on the financial health of the remaining domestic suppliers,&#8221; Solarbuzz Senior Analyst Michael Barker comments. Solarbuzz estimates that China's share of global demand will more than double in 2013 as compared to 2011, when it was 10%.
> 
> Plans for 12 GW of new solar PV in 2014
> 
> In November 2013 China's Bureau of Energy has released a draft plan for 12 GW of solar photovoltaic (PV) deployment in 2014, according to NPD Solarbuzz. This includes 8 GW of distributed generation. Jiangsu will be the leading province, with 1.3 GW of PV in its pipeline, followed by Shandong Province at 1.2 GW and Zhejiang Province at 1.1 GW. These plans show a shift in emphasis towards rooftop PV and to densely populated Eastern China from the far Western regions.



12gw in one fucking year. America has around 8 gw as of 2012 in total!


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Global Renewable Energy Charts & Facts*

Here&#8217;s an estimate of renewable energy&#8217;s share of electricity production at the end of 2012:







Non-hydro renewable being at 5.2% can be seen in a positive or a negative way. It&#8217;s much higher than it was just a few years ago, but it&#8217;s still a relatively small percentage. However you look at it, though, definitely realize that it is growing fast and will for years to come. We&#8217;re just getting started!

Here&#8217;s an even closer look at global renewable energy capacity, showing the totals by country at the end of the past 3 years:







Here&#8217;s a look at the world&#8217;s non-hydro renewable energy capacity leaders (again, in terms of total not relative capacity):







18 Renewable Energy Charts, Fun Renewable Energy Facts


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> *China became the world's largest solar PV market in Q3; nation is poised to additional multi-GW deployment*
> 
> 
> Solar Report*|*China became the world's largest solar PV market in Q3; nation is poised to additional multi-GW deployment*-*SolarServer
> 
> 
> 
> In October 2013 NPD Solarbuzz Inc. (Santa Clara, California, U.S.) published a new analysis which estimates that China represented 25% of the 9 GW of solar photovoltaic (PV) demand in the third quarter of 2013.
> 
> &#8220;The emergence of China in driving PV demand is impacting both global end-market figures and is also having a profound impact on the financial health of the remaining domestic suppliers,&#8221; Solarbuzz Senior Analyst Michael Barker comments. Solarbuzz estimates that China's share of global demand will more than double in 2013 as compared to 2011, when it was 10%.
> 
> Plans for 12 GW of new solar PV in 2014
> 
> In November 2013 China's Bureau of Energy has released a draft plan for 12 GW of solar photovoltaic (PV) deployment in 2014, according to NPD Solarbuzz. This includes 8 GW of distributed generation. Jiangsu will be the leading province, with 1.3 GW of PV in its pipeline, followed by Shandong Province at 1.2 GW and Zhejiang Province at 1.1 GW. These plans show a shift in emphasis towards rooftop PV and to densely populated Eastern China from the far Western regions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12gw in one fucking year. America has around 8 gw as of 2012 in total!
Click to expand...


As I explained before -- that 8GW USA total *DELIVERS* under 2GW of average power.. ((That's GENEROUS and it's probably much closer to 1.5 GW))

If it was all about marketing hype --- we'd have to include LIGHTNING on the list of Renewables. Because it's installed RATINGS would be fantastic..


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> *China became the world's largest solar PV market in Q3; nation is poised to additional multi-GW deployment*
> 
> 
> Solar Report*|*China became the world's largest solar PV market in Q3; nation is poised to additional multi-GW deployment*-*SolarServer
> 
> 
> 
> In October 2013 NPD Solarbuzz Inc. (Santa Clara, California, U.S.) published a new analysis which estimates that China represented 25% of the 9 GW of solar photovoltaic (PV) demand in the third quarter of 2013.
> 
> The emergence of China in driving PV demand is impacting both global end-market figures and is also having a profound impact on the financial health of the remaining domestic suppliers, Solarbuzz Senior Analyst Michael Barker comments. Solarbuzz estimates that China's share of global demand will more than double in 2013 as compared to 2011, when it was 10%.
> 
> Plans for 12 GW of new solar PV in 2014
> 
> In November 2013 China's Bureau of Energy has released a draft plan for 12 GW of solar photovoltaic (PV) deployment in 2014, according to NPD Solarbuzz. This includes 8 GW of distributed generation. Jiangsu will be the leading province, with 1.3 GW of PV in its pipeline, followed by Shandong Province at 1.2 GW and Zhejiang Province at 1.1 GW. These plans show a shift in emphasis towards rooftop PV and to densely populated Eastern China from the far Western regions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12gw in one fucking year. America has around 8 gw as of 2012 in total!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I explained before -- that 8GW USA total *DELIVERS* under 2GW of average power.. ((That's GENEROUS and it's probably much closer to 1.5 GW))
> 
> If it was all about marketing hype --- we'd have to include LIGHTNING on the list of Renewables. Because it's installed RATINGS would be fantastic..
Click to expand...


8GW is just that.  What the average is,  is of little concern.  You use whatever the full output is when it's available.  It's not using fuel or making waste. If there are times when demand can be met without all sources you back off on the fuel users and waste producers.  Or you incentivize demand to match supply.  

Start thinking outside your little box.


----------



## ScienceRocks

The reality of china is coal is killing their people as it is shorting life spans by over 5 years. Cancer rates have want through the roof. They can't build more hydro as portions of their rivers are so low at times that it simply doesn't work...

So they're turning to wind, solar and solar water heaters(80% of all are in China) to power their country. This doesn't have anything to do with global warming. 

This is the only way they see to improve life in China.


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> The reality of china is coal is killing their people as it is shorting life spans by over 5 years. Cancer rates have want through the roof.



Good enough for miners in Pennsylvania and West Virginia which made YOUR lifestyle possible, if that is the way the Chinese wish to proceed, your opinion on the topic is probably irrelevant. Unless you plan on relocating?



			
				Matthew said:
			
		

> So they're turning to wind, solar and solar water heaters(80% of all are in China) to power their country. This doesn't have anything to do with global warming.
> 
> This is the only way they see to improve life in China.



And full development of their unconventional shale oil and gas resources, if the last conference I was at where the Chinese were advocating exactly that, is any indication.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't one damn thing good about coal. China should mandate all homes install solar energy....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advocating fascism as a solution to how people generate their power doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not burning dirty fuels is fascism????
Click to expand...


No. Forcing people to do what you want without regard to what they want is.


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> I have my doubt we could save our selves from a asteroid. Truly we can't do it over many decades against global warming.



Already have. Have profited from it quite handsomely, as a species. Without global warming we wouldn't have Canada, and without Canada, we wouldn't have Pamela Lee Anderson. Or any other Canadian.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Advocating fascism as a solution to how people generate their power doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not burning dirty fuels is fascism????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Forcing people to do what you want without regard to what they want is.
Click to expand...


Nobody is forced to live here.  The world is pretty much an open market in terms of where you live. 

If being an American is too responsible a position for you,  bail out.  Go where people don't care about the future.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not burning dirty fuels is fascism????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. Forcing people to do what you want without regard to what they want is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody is forced to live here.  The world is pretty much an open market in terms of where you live.
Click to expand...


Sure..which is why the WORLD is trying to force CO2 emissions as an issue, because they can thereafter regulate people, people being massive CO2 emitters. Our very exhalation is being labeled a pollutant!

Tricky little game they are putting into motion, don't you think?



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> If being an American is too responsible a position for you,  bail out.  Go where people don't care about the future.



Are you KIDDING? One of the entire points of the "help stop human CO2 exhalation!" is that the thing is GLOBAL. It isn't as though California's hopes for less CO2 emissions means anything unless the folks to their west take up the same attitude.

As far as ME, I'm about as green a guy as you can find nowadays!! I make some of my own electricity, and also make some of my own fuel for the car. I insulate, live close to work, schools are all close enough for the kids to walk to, as are the movie theaters and grocery stores and most of everything else American suburbanites might need.

And my entire career has been spent in the procurement, quantification and study of, oil and natural gas. And I ADMIT that oil is obsolete. Why would I want to live somewhere else?

My objection has to do with idiots who don't know diddly about any of these issues FORCING me to do  things. Us Americans aren't required to be happy about being FORCED to do stuff we don't want to.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. Forcing people to do what you want without regard to what they want is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is forced to live here.  The world is pretty much an open market in terms of where you live.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure..which is why the WORLD is trying to force CO2 emissions as an issue, because they can thereafter regulate people, people being massive CO2 emitters. Our very exhalation is being labeled a pollutant!
> 
> Tricky little game they are putting into motion, don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If being an American is too responsible a position for you,  bail out.  Go where people don't care about the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you KIDDING? One of the entire points of the "help stop human CO2 exhalation!" is that the thing is GLOBAL. It isn't as though California's hopes for less CO2 emissions means anything unless the folks to their west take up the same attitude.
> 
> As far as ME, I'm about as green a guy as you can find nowadays!! I make some of my own electricity, and also make some of my own fuel for the car. I insulate, live close to work, schools are all close enough for the kids to walk to, as are the movie theaters and grocery stores and most of everything else American suburbanites might need.
> 
> And my entire career has been spent in the procurement, quantification and study of, oil and natural gas. And I ADMIT that oil is obsolete. Why would I want to live somewhere else?
> 
> My objection has to do with idiots who don't know diddly about any of these issues FORCING me two do things. Us Americans aren't required to be happy about being FORCED to do stuff we don't want to.
Click to expand...


It's typically conservative to demand irresponsibility as a right, and to try to patriotize ignoring critical problems. 

AGW fueled extreme weather is unaffordable.  The downside of the global fossil fuel supply curve, up against the rising developing world demand curve is unaffordable.  Yet your recommendation is if we buck up,  and give up enough other things,  we can keep your career going. 

No thanks.


----------



## ScienceRocks

What conservatives don't seem to get is the fact that renewables will always be here for humanity. No pollution, no health effects from that pollution, little environmental damage comparably and cheaper.

20 years from now solar will be seen as the conservative energy as it will be common sense. Simply economic.


----------



## PMZ

Some people disparage solar and wind as being "unreliable".  It's not,  of course,  but it is available based on nature's whims and not ours.  

However,  by good fortune, both sources tend to be available when most needed. 

Here's a short article on daily demand curves. 

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=12711


----------



## PMZ

A long and complete look at the energy strategy choices for the US.  Generally comparing the Republican do nothing strategy,  with a well thought out transition to sustainable energy integration into the present structure. 

www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/52409-3.pdf


----------



## PMZ

From   
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...KbJD5q5SMB6wtix7Q&sig2=qSM8nL9zhqf5kY_Wbc1y2Q
"Abstract "

"The electric power system in the US developed with the assumption of exogenous, inelastic demand.  The resulting evolution of the power system reinforced this assumption as nearly all controls, monitors, and feedbacks were implemented on the supply side.  Time invariant, averaged retail pricing was a natural extension of the assumption of exogenous demand and also reinforced this condition.  As a result, the market designs and physical control of the system exclude active participation by consumers.  Advances in information and communications technologies enable cost effective integration of demand response.  Integrating demand into the US electricity system will allow the development of a more complete market and has the potential for large efficiency gains.  Without feedbacks between supply and demand, attempts to develop competitive markets for electricity will suffer from a greater potential for market power and system failure.  This thesis provides an analysis of the technical, regulatory, and market issues to determine a system structure that provides incentives for demand response.  An integrated, dynamic simulation model is utilized to demonstrate the effects of large scale adoption of demand response technologies.  The model includes distributed decision making by both consumers and investors in generation capacity, the effects of their decisions on market prices, and the feedbacks between them.   Large scale adoption of demand response technology is simulated to quantify the potential benefits of responsive demand. The effects of technology improvement via learning, long term demand elasticity, and policies to promote adoption are considered.  The simulations show that diminishing returns for adopters and free rider effects limit the attractiveness of individual adoption.  A subsidy to alleviate the costs to adopters can be justified by the significant system level savings from widespread participation.  Several pernicious effects can emerge from large scale demand response, however, including increased price volatility due to reductions in generation capacity reserve margin, increases in long term demand, and increased emissions from the substitution of peak generation capacity, such as natural gas and renewables by intermediate capacity.  Significant rent transfers will also occur, and stakeholder analysis is conducted to determine interests and distributional effects of large scale demand response. "


----------



## ScienceRocks

The simple fact the cost of solar is close to purity with the grid and going down = big trouble for the fossil fuel industry. 

Last year alone doubled the rate of growth in America, japan and a few other European countries. Won't need much more of this to start kicking total ass.


----------



## PMZ

Matthew said:


> The simple fact the cost of solar is close to purity with the grid and going down = big trouble for the fossil fuel industry.
> 
> Last year alone doubled the rate of growth in America, japan and a few other European countries. Won't need much more of this to start kicking total ass.



As EVs and charging stations are so synergistic with PV energy, that has to be the next thing that we have to inventize.


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> What conservatives don't seem to get is the fact that renewables will always be here for humanity. No pollution, no health effects from that pollution, little environmental damage comparably and cheaper.
> 
> 20 years from now solar will be seen as the conservative energy as it will be common sense. Simply economic.



20 years from now -- folks with common sense will be seeking you idiots out who claimed "no pollution" from renewables and forcing them to dump the waste stream from *THIS *into THEIR backyards.. 







THAT'S the massive battery barns that have to be built to cope with more than a few percent of flaky, intermittent renewables on the grid.. HUNDREDS of TONS of batteries with limited lifetimes and a list of toxic contents.. That little number there is about sufficient to handle a couple dozen wind turbines. Or the brown-out from a mid-size cloud passing overhead for a medium size commercial solar farm..


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> What conservatives don't seem to get is the fact that renewables will always be here for humanity. No pollution, no health effects from that pollution, little environmental damage comparably and cheaper.
> 
> 20 years from now solar will be seen as the conservative energy as it will be common sense. Simply economic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years from now -- folks with common sense will be seeking you idiots out who claimed "no pollution" from renewables and forcing them to dump the waste stream from *THIS *into THEIR backyards..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT'S the massive battery barns that have to be built to cope with more than a few percent of flaky, intermittent renewables on the grid.. HUNDREDS of TONS of batteries with limited lifetimes and a list of toxic contents.. That little number there is about sufficient to handle a couple dozen wind turbines. Or the brown-out from a mid-size cloud passing overhead for a medium size commercial solar farm..
Click to expand...



Q: How often do you have to replace the batteries? 

A: Nickel Metal Hydride batteries (NiMH) are proving to be very long lived. Several cars with over 130,000 miles have been reported with virtually no range degradation. Estimates of 150,000  200,000 miles are predicted. Lithium Ion (LiIon) is thought by most experts to be the chemistry that will supplant NiMH. The testing of battery life is continuing, but its too early to tell how long LiIon will last.

Q: What if electric cars get their energy from dirty sources like coal  how clean are they then?

A: The Argonne National Labs have looked into this issue and report that the mix of power in the electrical grid, not all of which is coal, results in a 32% decrease in greenhouse gases with EVs. The other pollutants similarly meet the stringest standards for the cleanest gas cars today, even charging completely from an ordinary coal plant. Many states such as California are much cleaner, with a grid mix at 29% coal. EVs also allow you to use 100% clean renewable electricity from sources such as the sun or wind. In addition, EVs get cleaner as the electrical grid gets cleaner. Gas cars only get dirtier as they age. We support replacing all fossil-fuel electricity generation with clean and renewable generating methods.

Q: Arent all those batteries full of toxic chemicals and precious metals that will just end up in a landfill?

A: Not at all. Every car in the world has a lead-acid battery, the most toxic metal used for batteries. Even with its low value as scrap, the recycling rate for lead-acid batteries is about 98% in the U.S. EVs will use newer chemistries such as NiMH and LiIon. Both of these metals are inherently more valuable than lead, and since the batteries are quite large, the value of the spent battery packs will be such that the recycling rate will approach 100%. It is illegal to dispose of these batteries in a landfill and their value will ensure that is not their fate. Nickel, while mildly toxic, will be reclaimed during the recycling process. Lithium is even less toxic and more valuable than nickel.

Q: How viable are hydrogen cars? Many seem to think they are the "cars of the future. 

A: There are two types of hydrogen cars. Fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) are EVs, but instead of getting their electricity from batteries charged from the grid, they get their power from fuels cells using hydrogen as the energy carrier. FCVs use four times as much electricity on a per mile basis as a battery EV if the hydrogen is obtained through the process called electrolysis. So you would need four times the number of solar panels to go the same distance as you would in a battery EV. Hydrogen obtained through reformation of hydrocarbon fuels releases massive quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere, and even that dirty process uses more energy than merely charging a battery. FCVs have many seriously difficult and expensive engineering challenges to solve before they will ever be widely available, and even then, the energy required per mile will probably still be substantially higher than with battery EVs.

Internal combustion engines (ICE) can be made to burn hydrogen instead of gasoline. Even these fairly simple conversions are expensive, and the energy required is again, much higher per mile than with EVs. In addition, ICE burning hydrogen (H2) cars still have some emissions albeit low but they cannot be considered ZEVs, not even taking into consideration how one gets the hydrogen.

The bottom line is that there is no advantage to using FCVs or H2 ICE technologies over battery EVs.


From   http://www.evnut.com/ev_faq2.htm


----------



## ScienceRocks

We're capable of recycling the batteries...  Like part way through the post above shows ....


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> We're capable of recycling the batteries...  Like part way through the post above shows ....



We are also capable of burning coal cleanly.. But there are reasons why this doesn't happen. And the toxic waste stream from 12 facilities in Cali that look like that picture is gonna be MASSIVE. Toss in the additional waste stream and mining operations and battery factories and you are designing an enviro holocaust of toxic material and escalating cost.

You post these little gems as tho they are "done deals". Instead of reading the tech news as simple road markers of capabilities that MIGHT make it to the general marketplace. 

Cali is about blow BILLIONS on those battery barns because they JUST DISCOVERED they cant continue to add flaky unreliable renewables to the grid. They COULD have just asked the Germans and the Chinese. That picture is from CHINA. The largest battery storage facility ever built by man.. $500Mill facility.. And Cali ALREADY needs 12 of them.. Just to handle the solar and wind they already have.. That's Idiocracy.. They DIDN'T read the tech road markers, same mistake as you're making..


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're capable of recycling the batteries...  Like part way through the post above shows ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are also capable of burning coal cleanly.. But there are reasons why this doesn't happen. And the toxic waste stream from 12 facilities in Cali that look like that picture is gonna be MASSIVE. Toss in the additional waste stream and mining operations and battery factories and you are designing an enviro holocaust of toxic material and escalating cost.
> 
> You post these little gems as tho they are "done deals". Instead of reading the tech news as simple road markers of capabilities that MIGHT make it to the general marketplace.
> 
> Cali is about blow BILLIONS on those battery barns because they JUST DISCOVERED they cant continue to add flaky unreliable renewables to the grid. They COULD have just asked the Germans and the Chinese. That picture is from CHINA. The largest battery storage facility ever built by man.. $500Mill facility.. And Cali ALREADY needs 12 of them.. Just to handle the solar and wind they already have.. That's Idiocracy.. They DIDN'T read the tech road markers, same mistake as you're making..
Click to expand...


What's a "flaky unreliable renewable"?


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Fed Report Says Solar Leads All New U.S. Capacity Except Gas*




> The U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission's (FERC) Office of Energy Projects reports new natural gas dominated the first three quarters of the year with 5.85 GW, representing 54.6% of new capacity. However, renewable energy sources accounted for 30% of all new domestic electrical generating capacity over the same period.
> 
> Among renewable energy sources,* solar led the way for the first nine months of the year with 1.94 GW of added capacity. In calling attention to the new report, the Sun Day Campaign, a renewable energy advocacy group*, points out that new solar capacity is 77.4% higher than that for the same period in 2012.
> 
> New wind capacity accounted for 961 MW, followed by biomass with 192 MW, hydropower with 116 MW, and geothermal steam with 14 MW.
> 
> The renewables tally, totaling 3.22 GW, is more than that provided thus far this year by the 1.54 GW provided by coal. There was only 27 MW of oil-fired capacity added, and no new nuclear power.
> 
> Renewable sources now account for 15.7% of total installed U.S. operating generating capacity - more than nuclear (9.2%) and oil (4.1%) combined.



SolarIndustryMag.com: Fed Report Says Solar Leads All New U.S. Capacity Except Gas

Solar is starting to lead as parts of California and Az are reaching grid parity.  Simply a home owner can now look at the his/her energy bill and come to the conclusion that solar maybe the better choice and allows them to have freedom. Can't do that for wind power. Globally solar is already more then 1/3rd the gw of wind and catching up as nations like Spain, Italy and India are at that stage. Japan is blowing the floor and China wants to go to 35 gw by 2020  

If current trends of decreasing cost keep up=fast growth of the rate. I like nuclear but it is more expensive then solar/wind.

The limitless amounts of solar is mind blowing when you think about it.


----------



## PMZ

Matthew said:


> *Fed Report Says Solar Leads All New U.S. Capacity Except Gas*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission's (FERC) Office of Energy Projects reports new natural gas dominated the first three quarters of the year with 5.85 GW, representing 54.6% of new capacity. However, renewable energy sources accounted for 30% of all new domestic electrical generating capacity over the same period.
> 
> Among renewable energy sources,* solar led the way for the first nine months of the year with 1.94 GW of added capacity. In calling attention to the new report, the Sun Day Campaign, a renewable energy advocacy group*, points out that new solar capacity is 77.4% higher than that for the same period in 2012.
> 
> New wind capacity accounted for 961 MW, followed by biomass with 192 MW, hydropower with 116 MW, and geothermal steam with 14 MW.
> 
> The renewables tally, totaling 3.22 GW, is more than that provided thus far this year by the 1.54 GW provided by coal. There was only 27 MW of oil-fired capacity added, and no new nuclear power.
> 
> Renewable sources now account for 15.7% of total installed U.S. operating generating capacity - more than nuclear (9.2%) and oil (4.1%) combined.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SolarIndustryMag.com: Fed Report Says Solar Leads All New U.S. Capacity Except Gas
> 
> Solar is starting to lead as parts of California and Az are reaching grid parity.  Simply a home owner can now look at the his/her energy bill and come to the conclusion that solar maybe the better choice and allows them to have freedom. Can't do that for wind power. Globally solar is already more then 1/3rd the gw of wind and catching up as nations like Spain, Italy and India are at that stage. Japan is blowing the floor and China wants to go to 35 gw by 2020
> 
> If current trends of decreasing cost keep up=fast growth of the rate. I like nuclear but it is more expensive then solar/wind.
Click to expand...


The economics of energy are changing fast as predicted.  Fossil fuels will lead the way to unaffordable.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> What's a "flaky unreliable renewable"?



One that can't deliver 120 megawatts to a specific wire between 10PM and 2AM on a given night.

The folks that operate the power systems for the rest of us expect it to be that reliable. Most wind and solar systems cause problems because they are variablei.e. unreliable. So is distributed power, if all the households in an area pump out megawatts on a given afternoon, this is good, in the overall mix. But tomorrow, when it is cloudy, they pump out less. So the grid would have to swing output, hard, to make up for this natural variability.

Natural gas can do this really, REALLY well. 

So the game plan would be nukes and coal for base load, and instant on natural gas generation to make up for "unreliable" renewables. It is a reasonable complaint on the part of power engineers, this renewable stuff will make their lives more difficult. 

They will complain and whine, like flacaltenn does, but I have faith that as time goes on, they will find better and better ways to handle the variability. Obviously they already are, as evidenced by wind power springing up all over the place.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> The economics of energy are changing fast as predicted.  Fossil fuels will lead the way to unaffordable.



What does that mean? Fossil fuels are currently affordable and don't look to change from that condition anytime soon.


----------



## ScienceRocks

So much for solar being uncompetive and dead  Solar is picking up pace and growing very fast...

*Japan Solar PV Industry Reaches 10 GW Milestone*



> New research conducted by NPD Solarbuzz and featured on their blog this past week shows that Japanese solar photovoltaic &#8220;PV&#8221; installations have now passed 10 GW for cumulative PV capacity, only the fifth country to reach the mark. Of the previous four &#8212; Germany, Italy, China, and the US &#8212; the latter two only reached the milestone within the past few months, highlighting Japan&#8217;s achievement.
> 
> 
> 2013 Sees Regular Growth
> 
> There is a litany of Japanese solar stories covered here on CleanTechnica to back up these numbers, not the least of which was a report published in March of this year that predicted the number of Japanese solar installations would overtake the US and Germany this year.
> 
> As mentioned earlier, IMS Research &#8212; a part of IHS &#8211; predicted earlier this year that &#8220;[the] Japanese [PV] market is set to grow by 120 percent in 2013 and install more than 5 gigawatts (GW) of new capacity &#8230; with installations expected to exceed 1 GW in the first quarter alone.&#8221; At the end of May, IHS followed up their earlier report, revealing that not only had Japan reached the 1 GW mark for installations in the first quarter, but that they had installed 1.5 GW, &#8220;a stunning 270 percent in the first quarter of 2013&#8243;, and were on track to become the &#8220;world&#8217;s largest solar revenue market in 2013&#8243;. While the Japanese Agency for Natural Resources and Energy reported that Japan had added 1,240 MW  of solar installations in April and May.
> 
> 
> 
> Again borrowing from Colville&#8217;s piece on the Solarbuzz website, Japan&#8217;s PV industry has benefited greatly from renewed interest in the sector, resulting in;
> &#8226;Cumulative solar PV installed in Japan broke through the 10 GW barrier during August 2013 and exceeded 10.5 GW at the end of August.
> &#8226;Until the end of 2012, the Japanese PV market had been heavily weighted towards the rooftop segment, with 97% of PV capacity.
> &#8226;During the first eight months of 2013, the ground-mount segment has accounted for 27% of new solar PV capacity installed.
> &#8226;Over the first three quarters of calendar year 2013, Japan is forecast to install more PV capacity than during the entire three-year period spanning 2010 to 2012.
> &#8226;At the end of August 2013, rooftop solar PV installations remain the dominant type of PV installations by project number and by MW volume, with 89% of market share by capacity. The remaining 11% is spread across the ground-mount and off-grid segments.










> Japanese Solar in the Future
> 
> Looking forward, new figures from the Mercom Capital Group reiterate their earlier estimations of a global installation forecast for solar PV of approximately 38 GW by the end of the year, including 8.5 GW installed in China, 7 in Japan, and another 4.5 in the US.


Read more at Japan Solar PV Industry Reaches 10 GW Milestone | CleanTechnica

*US Passes 10 GW Installed Solar PV Capacity Milestone*




> America&#8217;s solar market has broken through the clouds to shine as only the fourth nation to pass the 10 gigawatts (GW) installed solar capacity milestone.
> 
> 
> Fast-growing solar photovoltaic (PV) deployment levels since 2010 pushed the US into the ultra-exclusive 10 GW club, reports NPD Solarbuzz in the latest North America PV Market Quarterly report.
> 
> &#8220;The US has now joined an elite group of maturing solar PV markets,&#8221; said Christopher Sunsong of NPD Solarbuzz. &#8220;Only Germany, Italy, and China have more installed PV capacity than the US.&#8221;
> 
> 
> 
> Solar Growing Fast With No Slowdown In Sight
> 
> *Solar PV has become one of America&#8217;s fastest-growing energy sources in recent years. NPD reports the solar PV market has expanded at a compound annual growth rate of 50% since 2007, and 83% of the 10 GW capacity was installed within the past 14 quarters. During the first half of 2013, more than 1.8 GW of new solar PV capacity was installed in the US.*
> 
> But instead of peaking, NPD predicts installations will accelerate over the next 18 months. Cumulative solar PV installations are forecast to grow an additional 80% by the end of 2014, putting the US on track to pass 17 GW installed solar PV capacity.
> 
> This dramatic growth is attributed to the drastic decline of solar system prices that began in 2011. *The average cost of an installed system has fallen from $6 per watt in 2011 to $4.25 per watt residential and $3 per watt utility-scale solar PV projects today.*



Read more at US Passes 10GW Installed Solar PV Capacity Milestone


----------



## PMZ

Matthew said:


> So much for solar being uncompetive and dead  Solar is picking up pace and growing very fast...
> 
> *Japan Solar PV Industry Reaches 10 GW Milestone*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New research conducted by NPD Solarbuzz and featured on their blog this past week shows that Japanese solar photovoltaic PV installations have now passed 10 GW for cumulative PV capacity, only the fifth country to reach the mark. Of the previous four  Germany, Italy, China, and the US  the latter two only reached the milestone within the past few months, highlighting Japans achievement.
> 
> 
> 2013 Sees Regular Growth
> 
> There is a litany of Japanese solar stories covered here on CleanTechnica to back up these numbers, not the least of which was a report published in March of this year that predicted the number of Japanese solar installations would overtake the US and Germany this year.
> 
> As mentioned earlier, IMS Research  a part of IHS  predicted earlier this year that [the] Japanese [PV] market is set to grow by 120 percent in 2013 and install more than 5 gigawatts (GW) of new capacity  with installations expected to exceed 1 GW in the first quarter alone. At the end of May, IHS followed up their earlier report, revealing that not only had Japan reached the 1 GW mark for installations in the first quarter, but that they had installed 1.5 GW, a stunning 270 percent in the first quarter of 2013&#8243;, and were on track to become the worlds largest solar revenue market in 2013&#8243;. While the Japanese Agency for Natural Resources and Energy reported that Japan had added 1,240 MW  of solar installations in April and May.
> 
> 
> 
> Again borrowing from Colvilles piece on the Solarbuzz website, Japans PV industry has benefited greatly from renewed interest in the sector, resulting in;
> Cumulative solar PV installed in Japan broke through the 10 GW barrier during August 2013 and exceeded 10.5 GW at the end of August.
> Until the end of 2012, the Japanese PV market had been heavily weighted towards the rooftop segment, with 97% of PV capacity.
> During the first eight months of 2013, the ground-mount segment has accounted for 27% of new solar PV capacity installed.
> Over the first three quarters of calendar year 2013, Japan is forecast to install more PV capacity than during the entire three-year period spanning 2010 to 2012.
> At the end of August 2013, rooftop solar PV installations remain the dominant type of PV installations by project number and by MW volume, with 89% of market share by capacity. The remaining 11% is spread across the ground-mount and off-grid segments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese Solar in the Future
> 
> Looking forward, new figures from the Mercom Capital Group reiterate their earlier estimations of a global installation forecast for solar PV of approximately 38 GW by the end of the year, including 8.5 GW installed in China, 7 in Japan, and another 4.5 in the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read more at Japan Solar PV Industry Reaches 10 GW Milestone | CleanTechnica
> 
> *US Passes 10 GW Installed Solar PV Capacity Milestone*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americas solar market has broken through the clouds to shine as only the fourth nation to pass the 10 gigawatts (GW) installed solar capacity milestone.
> 
> 
> Fast-growing solar photovoltaic (PV) deployment levels since 2010 pushed the US into the ultra-exclusive 10 GW club, reports NPD Solarbuzz in the latest North America PV Market Quarterly report.
> 
> The US has now joined an elite group of maturing solar PV markets, said Christopher Sunsong of NPD Solarbuzz. Only Germany, Italy, and China have more installed PV capacity than the US.
> 
> 
> 
> Solar Growing Fast With No Slowdown In Sight
> 
> *Solar PV has become one of Americas fastest-growing energy sources in recent years. NPD reports the solar PV market has expanded at a compound annual growth rate of 50% since 2007, and 83% of the 10 GW capacity was installed within the past 14 quarters. During the first half of 2013, more than 1.8 GW of new solar PV capacity was installed in the US.*
> 
> But instead of peaking, NPD predicts installations will accelerate over the next 18 months. Cumulative solar PV installations are forecast to grow an additional 80% by the end of 2014, putting the US on track to pass 17 GW installed solar PV capacity.
> 
> This dramatic growth is attributed to the drastic decline of solar system prices that began in 2011. *The average cost of an installed system has fallen from $6 per watt in 2011 to $4.25 per watt residential and $3 per watt utility-scale solar PV projects today.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more at US Passes 10GW Installed Solar PV Capacity Milestone
Click to expand...


Of course there is a limit as to what percent of total power can be from intermittent sources without storage.  We're a long way from that limit now.  

As we approach it,  we will need to think of the best combination of energy storage,  and flexible demand.  Demand flexibility can be incented by variable pricing.  Reward off peak demand. 

Lots of options.


----------



## PMZ

Of course all hydro power is energy recovered from the sun,  which adds potential energy to water by evaporation,  transport as vapor,  and condensation into higher altitude reservoirs. 

We can use the same general process for energy storage (exept it's probably more efficient to pump it compared to evaporate and condense it).


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> So much for solar being uncompetive and dead  Solar is picking up pace and growing very fast..]



Nobody said it was uncompetitive (in the being used sense anyway) or dead.

There is no need to assemble straw men to pretend you are "winning" anything. There are reasons why simple charts of installed GW aren't the proof you might hope, and certainly don't have the kind of scalability that NG fired generation has. And we have plenty of NG around to boot, it is being touted as a clean fuel, can be used to power jet aircraft, run trucks, cars and other forms of personal transport, has a distribution system already built into many American homes, is wonderfully less expensive on a BTU basis than crude oil, and is basically the work creating elixir of the 21st century. Solar is&#8230;.nice.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> So much for solar being uncompetive and dead  Solar is picking up pace and growing very fast..]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody said it was uncompetitive (in the being used sense anyway) or dead.
> 
> There is no need to assemble straw men to pretend you are "winning" anything.
Click to expand...


I think that lots of people believe that it's uncompetitive,  because it was in the past.  The government investment in it was the impetus that drove it down the cost curve.


----------



## flacaltenn

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's a "flaky unreliable renewable"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One that can't deliver 120 megawatts to a specific wire between 10PM and 2AM on a given night.
> 
> The folks that operate the power systems for the rest of us expect it to be that reliable. Most wind and solar systems cause problems because they are variablei.e. unreliable. So is distributed power, if all the households in an area pump out megawatts on a given afternoon, this is good, in the overall mix. But tomorrow, when it is cloudy, they pump out less. So the grid would have to swing output, hard, to make up for this natural variability.
> 
> Natural gas can do this really, REALLY well.
> 
> So the game plan would be nukes and coal for base load, and instant on natural gas generation to make up for "unreliable" renewables. It is a reasonable complaint on the part of power engineers, this renewable stuff will make their lives more difficult.
> 
> They will complain and whine, like flacaltenn does, but I have faith that as time goes on, they will find better and better ways to handle the variability. Obviously they already are, as evidenced by wind power springing up all over the place.
Click to expand...


Well u have the roadmap correct. But im not whining.  Im trying to save our society big bucks by pointing out that solar is merely a peaker technology. Not an alternative, like Matthew  is fraudently selling it.  All those claims about installed capacity are blatantly false. As the amout PRODUCED by those methods is a small fraction of the hype.  In addition, I suggest you look up my thread  "Renewables now more expensive in Cali".  Because the $Bills about to be spent to accomodate MORE flaky power on the the grid in that state, WAS PREDICTABLE and avoidable. In fact Japan,  where they value engineering over hype,  never allowed renewableson their grid without a token amount of battery storage.


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's a "flaky unreliable renewable"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One that can't deliver 120 megawatts to a specific wire between 10PM and 2AM on a given night.
> 
> The folks that operate the power systems for the rest of us expect it to be that reliable. Most wind and solar systems cause problems because they are variablei.e. unreliable. So is distributed power, if all the households in an area pump out megawatts on a given afternoon, this is good, in the overall mix. But tomorrow, when it is cloudy, they pump out less. So the grid would have to swing output, hard, to make up for this natural variability.
> 
> Natural gas can do this really, REALLY well.
> 
> So the game plan would be nukes and coal for base load, and instant on natural gas generation to make up for "unreliable" renewables. It is a reasonable complaint on the part of power engineers, this renewable stuff will make their lives more difficult.
> 
> They will complain and whine, like flacaltenn does, but I have faith that as time goes on, they will find better and better ways to handle the variability. Obviously they already are, as evidenced by wind power springing up all over the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well u have the roadmap correct. But im not whining.  Im trying to save our society big bucks by pointing out that solar is merely a peaker technology. Not an alternative, like Matthew  is fraudently selling it.  All those claims about installed capacity are blatantly false. As the amout PRODUCED by those methods is a small fraction of the hype.  In addition, I suggest you look up my thread  "Renewables now more expensive in Cali".  Because the $Bills about to be spent to accomodate MORE flaky power on the the grid in that state, WAS PREDICTABLE and avoidable. In fact Japan,  where they value engineering over hype,  never allowed renewableson their grid without a token amount of battery storage.
Click to expand...


Solar and wind energy are super reliable but intermittent. There are two ways to mitigate that when mitigation is required which is many years from now.  

Storage to shift the supply to when the demand dictates. 

Demand shifting to when the supply dictates.  

There is great potential for both approaches.  And fuel and waste-less energy energy is a great motivation.


----------



## RGR

flacaltenn said:


> Well u have the roadmap correct.



Sure I do. You have explained it well, and as someone with my own kind of deliverable schedule, it makes reasonable sense from the engineering side.



			
				flacaltenn said:
			
		

> Im trying to save our society big bucks by pointing out that solar is merely a peaker technology. Not an alternative, like Matthew  is fraudently selling it.



The eco-hopeful would just as soon not pay attention to the practical side of things. I mean really, the instant the regular folks figure out that all of us are CO2 emitters and next up in the grand scheme of regulation in that regard, the less enthusiastic they might be. So Matthew is doing some pimping....not a surprise...he certainly can't sell the practical side of his solution because...it isn't the solution he thinks it is. Or he is just plain stupid and doesn't even understand why it isn't the solution he thinks it is.



			
				flacaltenn said:
			
		

> In addition, I suggest you look up my thread  "Renewables now more expensive in Cali".  Because the $Bills about to be spent to accomodate MORE flaky power on the the grid in that state, WAS PREDICTABLE and avoidable. In fact Japan,  where they value engineering over hype,  never allowed renewableson their grid without a token amount of battery storage.



The Japanese have different problems then we do in the states. The resources available to their country versus ours is like night versus day.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well u have the roadmap correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I do. You have explained it well, and as someone with my own kind of deliverable schedule, it makes reasonable sense from the engineering side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im trying to save our society big bucks by pointing out that solar is merely a peaker technology. Not an alternative, like Matthew  is fraudently selling it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The eco-hopeful would just as soon not pay attention to the practical side of things. I mean really, the instant the regular folks figure out that all of us are CO2 emitters and next up in the grand scheme of regulation in that regard, the less enthusiastic they might be. So Matthew is doing some pimping....not a surprise...he certainly can't sell the practical side of his solution because...it isn't the solution he thinks it is. Or he is just plain stupid and doesn't even understand why it isn't the solution he thinks it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, I suggest you look up my thread  "Renewables now more expensive in Cali".  Because the $Bills about to be spent to accomodate MORE flaky power on the the grid in that state, WAS PREDICTABLE and avoidable. In fact Japan,  where they value engineering over hype,  never allowed renewableson their grid without a token amount of battery storage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Japanese have different problems then we do in the states. The resources available to their country versus ours is like night versus day.
Click to expand...


Some people are science people and some more attuned to politics. 

I believe that they have nothing in common.  Science is about truth and politics about what factions want.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Fracking appears to fuck up the water table and cause earth quakes. Ban it.

*Massachusetts seeks 10-yr ban on gas fracking after series of Texas quakes*



> An environmental committee at Massachusetts Statehouse has approved a bill, imposing a 10-year ban on fracking for natural gas. The move comes as a wave of earthquakes in Texas has raised new concerns over the controversial drilling technique.
> 
> The Massachusetts fracking moratorium bill is designed to protect the state&#8217;s drinking water from possible contamination and thus "ensure that the health and prosperity of our communities is maintained," according to one of the legislation's sponsors, Northampton Democratic state Rep. Peter Kocot, cited by AP.
> 
> 
> To become law, the temporary ban on fracking has yet to be approved by the lawmakers and signed by the Democratic Governor, Deval Patrick.
> 
> 
> The Massachusetts legislative move was taken on Friday, the day after Texas was stuck by a 3.6 magnitude earthquake, one in a row of similar episodes during the last three weeks. The finger of blame is being pointed at fracking. The series of small earthquakes caused no casualties, but left local Texas residents fearing worse could be in store.



http://rt.com/usa/fracking-texas-activists-concerned-510/


----------



## ScienceRocks

Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)


----------



## elektra

Matthew said:


> Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)



And like a true politician Democrat Reid will give a fracking exemption to the geothermal industry. 

So looks like in addition to proposing a ban that kills Solar, you have now proposed a ban that will kill The Geysers Geothermal plants as well as the Geothermal Plants on the Salton Sea.

Nice work, who's side are you on?


----------



## PMZ

elektra said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And like a true politician Democrat Reid will give a fracking exemption to the geothermal industry.
> 
> So looks like in addition to proposing a ban that kills Solar, you have now proposed a ban that will kill The Geysers Geothermal plants as well as the Geothermal Plants on the Salton Sea.
> 
> Nice work, who's side are you on?
Click to expand...


Is there some connection between Mathew's post and yours?


----------



## elektra

PMZ said:


> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And like a true politician Democrat Reid will give a fracking exemption to the geothermal industry.
> 
> So looks like in addition to proposing a ban that kills Solar, you have now proposed a ban that will kill The Geysers Geothermal plants as well as the Geothermal Plants on the Salton Sea.
> 
> Nice work, who's side are you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there some connection between Mathew's post and yours?
Click to expand...


Yes, Fracking, which if banned, should be banned for geothermal power as well as oil. The Geysers uses Fracking as does the Salton Sea geothermal plants.


----------



## PMZ

elektra said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elektra said:
> 
> 
> 
> And like a true politician Democrat Reid will give a fracking exemption to the geothermal industry.
> 
> So looks like in addition to proposing a ban that kills Solar, you have now proposed a ban that will kill The Geysers Geothermal plants as well as the Geothermal Plants on the Salton Sea.
> 
> Nice work, who's side are you on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some connection between Mathew's post and yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, Fracking, which if banned, should be banned for geothermal power as well as oil. The Geysers uses Fracking as does the Salton Sea geothermal plants.
Click to expand...


Good point.  Thats always the way with politics,  isn't it.  Every possibility helps some people,  and inconveniences others.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Let's just say that I support pushing away from the 3 energy sources that will run out.

Coal, oil and natural gas....

I am a big supporter of nuclear and I am shocked to see how anti-nuclear the warming movement is even through they want to get away from co2. Makes me sick. 100 more gw of nuclear would remove 100 gw of coal or natural gas from the grid.

Why do I support geo-thermal? Same reason.
Why do I support solar? Same reason.

There's no reason why 20-30% of our energy mix can't be renewable or sources like nuclear. Places like Briton, Germany and parts of the eastern sea board of this country have already hit peak in those finite sources.

Does solar pollute??? Yes. Does your computer or car battery...Thank god for regulations that you whine about. Remember we're NOT china and the epa is why we're not.


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> Fracking appears to fuck up the water table and cause earth quakes. Ban it.



Jesus here we go, yet another oilignoramous.

And Jesus said....Here Yea Frack Fluid! Osmosis through inches of steel and concrete, one after the other and I say unto you...sneak into fresh water aquifer and sit there invisible...unable to be found....and I shall deliver oilignoramouses to proclaim your presence...!!


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)



says the guy using both to say that both should be stopped....


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> There's no reason why 20-30% of our energy mix can't be renewable or sources like nuclear. Places like Briton, Germany and parts of the eastern sea board of this country have already hit peak in those finite sources.



And the other 70-80% from those finite resources that are oh so capable of running throughout this century, and which you have no trouble using to tell the rest of us that everyone should be as solar oriented and EVed as the likes of I?

Please...just another blue sky dreamer without a damn clue how to power the planet, let alone stop using fossil fuels themselves.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no reason why 20-30% of our energy mix can't be renewable or sources like nuclear. Places like Briton, Germany and parts of the eastern sea board of this country have already hit peak in those finite sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other 70-80% from those finite resources that are oh so capable of running throughout this century, and which you have no trouble using to tell the rest of us that everyone should be as solar oriented and EVed as the likes of I?
> 
> Please...just another blue sky dreamer without a damn clue how to power the planet, let alone stop using fossil fuels themselves.
Click to expand...


Clearly you have found a cure for AGW other than eliminating GHGs.  Can't wait to read all about it.


----------



## ScienceRocks

> Yet, because no fracking company has existed without being subsidized, others believe this argument cannot be substantiated. *The former Vice President of Mitchell Energy, Dan Steward even acknowledged the role of federal support in developing natural gas: "They did a hell of a lot of work and I can't give them enough credit for that. DOE (Department of Energy) started it, and other people took the ball and ran with it. You can't diminish DOE's involvement."* Steward went on to add, "Government has to be looking down the road. We really cannot wait to develop those other energies. Industry doesn't look as far down the road as the government should."
> 
> In 2011, the New Alternative Transportation to Give Americans Solutions Act (NAT GAS Act) was proposed. This would grant billions of dollars to the development of vehicles run on compressed natural gas. Again, just like those arguing on behalf of solar or wind power, NAT GAS supporters have claimed that the bill will add thousands of jobs, cut energy prices, and lessen America's energy dependence.
> 
> President Obama has openly supported government subsidies for natural gas and fracking, taking credit for its recent successes. And like his support for "clean coal," *Obama's support for subsidies for these fossil fuels has drawn criticism from many supporters of increased renewable energy.* Meanwhile, others have criticized the President's support for the alternative energy sector. The history of government subsidies for energy research, development and production makes the current discussion very complicated and reveal the many nuances behind it. What the Guys Who Want to be President Want to Do on the Environment - The Wire
> 
> The recent boom in natural gas and fracking in light of significant government support help make the debate over the government's role in energy very interesting. The key, however, in this debate, as in most debates, is finding consistency. *All forms of energy in America have long been subsidized.* Should this continue to be the case? There have certainly been successes and failures in all energy fields. But would America be better off with less regulation, fewer subsidies, but increased risk? When attempting to come to a conclusion over this, it is crucial that the full history be examined and assessed. The current state of affairs does not provide sufficient evidence for a conclusion to this question.


 Fracking: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Bigger Pie Forum

The Breakthrough Institute - Interview with Dan Steward, Former Mitchell Energy Vice President

Also we have want from 1% in 2000 to 25%(some sources say 30%+) in 2012 of using shale natural gas. The old sources no longer draw the profit. Shows that nothing is forever and that we should develop infite resources of energy generation. I strongly believe they will allow us to have a more solid footing of not worrying about rather that resource will run out tomorrow. The economics over the long term make sense.


----------



## ScienceRocks

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no reason why 20-30% of our energy mix can't be renewable or sources like nuclear. Places like Briton, Germany and parts of the eastern sea board of this country have already hit peak in those finite sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the other 70-80% from those finite resources that are oh so capable of running throughout this century, and which you have no trouble using to tell the rest of us that everyone should be as solar oriented and EVed as the likes of I?
> 
> Please...just another blue sky dreamer without a damn clue how to power the planet, let alone stop using fossil fuels themselves.
Click to expand...


Silicon will never run out as it is a huge part of our crust. Those rare metals are all over the solar system and will give us a reason to move off of this planet.


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)



So lemme get this straight. You cant sell your junk without intimidation.. so you want folks to be cold enough and hungry enough to bend over and just take it....


----------



## flacaltenn

elektra said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And like a true politician Democrat Reid will give a fracking exemption to the geothermal industry.
> 
> So looks like in addition to proposing a ban that kills Solar, you have now proposed a ban that will kill The Geysers Geothermal plants as well as the Geothermal Plants on the Salton Sea.
> 
> Nice work, who's side are you on?
Click to expand...


ABSOLUTELY correct. We LEARNED how to frack from GeoThermal Mining.. 

Bet Matthew had no idea he was supporting a dirty ole mining operation..


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time for majority leader Reid to push a bill banning fracking and coal ;0)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So lemme get this straight. You cant sell your junk without intimidation.. so you want folks to be cold enough and hungry enough to bend over and just take it....
Click to expand...


People will be cold and hungry if we do nothing.  That's why it's not an option.


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> There's no reason why 20-30% of our energy mix can't be renewable or sources like nuclear. Places like Briton, Germany and parts of the eastern sea board of this country have already hit peak in those finite sources.



I hope to heaven that we we're not stupid or pig-headed enough to repeat the mistakes that Germany has made.. They have torn up entire Alpine Mountain Sides to build pumped water storage for their token renewable load.. And in many cases, after all the money and enviro damage this causes --- they shut it down.. 



> For U.S., Germany Offers a Cautionary Clean Energy Tale - World Report (usnews.com)
> 
> Lesson 3: It's important to coordinate energy storage and renewables.
> 
> One of the generally accepted truths when adding more intermittent renewable energy to the grid is that the grid must either gain more capacity to store energy or become &#8220;smarter&#8221; to better match supply and demand. Germany has been a leader in energy storage, boasting almost two dozen pumped storage hydroelectric plants. One of the largest, Niederwartha, has been in operation for over eighty years. During times of low electricity demand and prices, the plant uses cheap energy to pump water into storage. When peak prices hit during times of high demand, the plant releases pent up water, generating electricity and profit.
> 
> Sounds ideal, and it is, as long as the timing is right &#8212; but oftentimes it isn't. *Too often, pumped storage plants are timed to release energy during peak daylight hours, when they end up competing directly with subsidized solar energy generation. And so Niederwartha, profitable for many years, may be shut down. Without this previously compelling business model, new designs slated for construction may never be built, despite a need for future energy storage.*
> 
> *While Germany's amount of electricity from renewable energy rose 10.2 percent in 2012, electricity generated by coal plants also grew by 5 percent. So even with all of the growth in renewables, the bottom-line need for baseload generation means that total carbon dioxide emissions increased from 2011 to 2012.*
> 
> The U.S. should learn from Germany's pollution-increasing shutdown of its nuclear fleet by improving its regulatory environment and loan programs for nuclear power. While the U.S. isn't shutting down nuclear power stations by the handful, as is happening in Germany, low natural gas prices combined with solar and wind subsidies have led some companies to decommission plants.



Think tearing up pristine mountain sides is clean and green Matthew?


----------



## ScienceRocks

It increased because they done away with nuclear.

More fossil fuel use.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Quarterly Japanese solar PV module demand rises above 2 GW, imports more than half*


> Demand for solar photovoltaic (PV) modules in Japan rose 27% sequentially to 2.07 GW from July through September 2013, according to figures released by the Japan Photovoltaic Energy Association (JPEA).
> 
> This represents a more than four-fold increase from a year ago. Imported PV again met more than half of demand during the quarter, rising to 58% or 1.20 GW.
> 
> This puts Japan at 5.45 GW of demand in the first nine months of 2013. If this level of demand continues during the fourth quarter the nation will ship the 7 GW that analysts have predicted for 2013, making Japan the world's second-largest market in 2013 after China.



KW49*|*Quarterly Japanese solar PV module demand rises above 2 GW, imports more than half*-*SolarServer


----------



## ScienceRocks

> Germany saw increased emissions in greenhouse gases last year due to more coal and gas usage while the country seeks to develop its renewable energy sources, officials said Monday.
> 
> 
> Germany, which has *committed to phase out nuclear power*, emitted the equivalent of around 931 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2012, or 14 million tonnes more than a year earlier, the federal environment agency said.



 Read more at: German greenhouse gas emissions rose in 2012

This is why it is idiotic to phase out nuclear if you hate co2.


----------



## PMZ

Matthew said:


> Germany saw increased emissions in greenhouse gases last year due to more coal and gas usage while the country seeks to develop its renewable energy sources, officials said Monday.
> 
> 
> Germany, which has *committed to phase out nuclear power*, emitted the equivalent of around 931 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2012, or 14 million tonnes more than a year earlier, the federal environment agency said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at: German greenhouse gas emissions rose in 2012
> 
> This is why it is idiotic to phase out nuclear if you hate co2.
Click to expand...


Hopefully,  all of the resistance to nuclear will have everyone searching for design solutions.


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> Germany saw increased emissions in greenhouse gases last year due to more coal and gas usage while the country seeks to develop its renewable energy sources, officials said Monday.
> 
> 
> Germany, which has *committed to phase out nuclear power*, emitted the equivalent of around 931 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2012, or 14 million tonnes more than a year earlier, the federal environment agency said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more at: German greenhouse gas emissions rose in 2012
> 
> This is why it is idiotic to phase out nuclear if you hate co2.
Click to expand...


WHY did they have to increase coal when they've invested so heavily in wind/solar? 

Easy --- Wind and solar are NOT backbone generators... .  Solar is a Peaker.. Wind is a pesky gimmick..


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Flying power plant concept harvests energy from the sky*

.
Flying power plant concept harvests energy from the sky | DVICE



> When Hurricane Sandy swept across the East Coast last year, millions of people were without power after the initial onslaught of the storm. Restoring power takes time, but leaving people in the dark is never a good option. What if there was a way to give people the electricity they need while technicians work on downed power lines and boxes? What if drones could take to the skies and convert solar and wind energy to electricity for the people on Earth below it? Thats exactly what UK-based New Wave Energy hopes to do with its solar and wind collecting drones. Thats right, drones aren't just for warfare and delivering your Amazon packages any more.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Underwater Tidal Kites Are Producing Large Amounts Of Electricity Off The Coast Of Northern Ireland

Underwater Tidal Kites Are Producing Large Amounts Of Electricity Off The Coast Of Northern Ireland | Minds


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> Underwater Tidal Kites Are Producing Large Amounts Of Electricity Off The Coast Of Northern Ireland
> 
> Underwater Tidal Kites Are Producing Large Amounts Of Electricity Off The Coast Of Northern Ireland | Minds



What will these be tethered to? All their pics show it tethered at the surface.


----------



## ScienceRocks

I am guessing they will drill a couple meter hole into the ground and rig it to the surface.

*Solar PV, CSP represent 3.6% of Spanish electricity in November 2013*
KW49*|*Solar PV, CSP represent 3.6% of Spanish electricity in November 2013*-*SolarServer




> Solar photovoltaics (PV) provided 2.5% of Spain's electricity generation with concentrating solar power (CSP) providing another 1.1% in November 2013, according to grid operator REE.
> 
> These figures show PV and CSP supplementing Spanish electricity generation even in the winter months. Over the first 11 months of the year, Spain's PV and CSP plants together represented 5.1% of electricity generation, with all renewables together at 43% of generation.
> 
> Critics of wind and solar have stated concerns over the seasonal variability of these forms of generation. However, similar to other winter months, Spanish PV and CSP production was still relatively strong in November 2013 despite the nation's location between the 36th and 44th parallels.
> 
> Spain is at the same longitude as much of the United States and Japan, and slightly north of the center of China. These are the three largest PV markets in 2013.
> Spain: High penetrations of wind and solar
> 
> The nation has also shown that it is possible to integrate large amounts of wind and solar even with a relatively isolated grid. In the first twelve months of 2013 wind provided 21% of Spanish electricity, meaning that wind and solar together have produced more than a quarter of the nation's electricity over the full year to date.
> 
> Spain has one of the highest percentages of wind generation of any nation in the world, and the third-highest portion of solar electric generation of any large nation, after Germany and Italy.





*German solar PV, wind peak at 59.1% of electricity production on October 3rd, 2013*



> German solar photovoltaics (PV) and wind peaked at 59.1% of the nation's hourly electricity production slightly before 12:00 PM on October 3rd, 2013, according to an analysis by renewable energy consultant Bernard Chabot.
> 
> This was the result of healthy PV output on a particularly windy day, combined with reduced electricity use on a German holiday. At peak production PV provided 20.5 GW, with wind peaking at 16.6 GW, and the peak of the two combined was 34.6 GW.
> 
> Over the 24-hour period PV and wind delivered 36.4% of total electricity production, with PV alone contributing 11.2%.



KW41*|*German solar PV, wind peak at 59.1% of electricity production on October 3rd, 2013*-*SolarServer

I'll admit if you want to decrease co2 and enjoy electricy at all hours without worry...DON"T be anti-nuclear.


----------



## Old Rocks

There is no reason to be anti-nuclear. There is reason to spend the money to store the rods in dry casks rather than in ponds, at 5 times the density the ponds were designed for. Had the rods in the pond at Fukushima been in dry casks, they would not have the problem they are dealing with now.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*U.S. PV Market Installs 930 Megawatts in Q3 2013; Second Largest Quarter Ever*



> The third quarter of 2013 was the second largest on record for the U.S. solar industry. There were 930 MW of new photovoltaic capacity installed in Q3 2013, representing a 35 percent increase in deployment over the third quarter of 2012. The strong third quarter keeps the U.S. market on pace for another record year. SEIA and GTM Research forecast that an additional 1,780 MW of PV and 800 MW of concentrating solar (CSP) will be installed in the fourth quarter of 2013 alone, bringing the total for the year to over 5,000 MW of new solar electric capacity. (All data from SEIA/GTM Research &#8220;U.S. Solar Market Insight: Q3 2013&#8221; unless otherwise noted.)


Solar Industry Data | SEIA



*Installations Continue to Boom*

&#8226;There are now over 10,250 MW of cumulative solar electric capacity operating in the U.S., enough to power more than 1.7 million average American homes. 

&#8226;The residential segment had its best quarter on record with 186 MW installed.

&#8226;The utility market made up over half of all new Q3 capacity installed. There were 52 utility projects completed in the third quarter, totaling 539 MW.


*Falling Costs Make Solar More Affordable*
&#8226;The average cost of a completed PV system dropped by 16 percent over the past year to $3.00/W.
&#8226;The average price of a solar panel has declined by 60 percent since the beginning of 2011.
&#8226;While these price drops are beneficial for solar consumers, the sharp fall in prices, due in part by a global oversupply, has put a serious strain on solar manufacturers worldwide


*Another Record Year of Installations*
&#8226;4,300 MW of PV are forecasted to come online throughout 2013, which represents 27% growth over 2012 installation totals.
&#8226;2013 will be a record year for CSP as 800 MW are expected to be commissioned by year's end.
&#8226;Together, new solar electric capacity added in 2013 will generate enough clean energy to power over 850,000 average American homes.


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> *Flying power plant concept harvests energy from the sky*
> 
> .
> Flying power plant concept harvests energy from the sky | DVICE



Call us up when you happen to power some part of your house with this scheme.


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> I am guessing they will drill a couple meter hole into the ground and rig it to the surface.
> 
> *Solar PV, CSP represent 3.6% of Spanish electricity in November 2013*



Real forms of power represent 96.4% of Spanish electricity in November 2013.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am guessing they will drill a couple meter hole into the ground and rig it to the surface.
> 
> *Solar PV, CSP represent 3.6% of Spanish electricity in November 2013*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Real forms of power represent 96.4% of Spanish electricity in November 2013.
Click to expand...


What makes ancient plants and animals that were not allowed to properly rot,  and are in limited supply,  a real form of power,  compared to the the sun,  the original source of all energy here?


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am guessing they will drill a couple meter hole into the ground and rig it to the surface.
> 
> *Solar PV, CSP represent 3.6% of Spanish electricity in November 2013*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Real forms of power represent 96.4% of Spanish electricity in November 2013.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes ancient plants and animals that were not allowed to properly rot,  and are in limited supply,  a real form of power,  compared to the the sun,  the original source of all energy here?
Click to expand...


Assuming you are looking for actual REAL answer to where human power generation comes from, ultimately it derives from only two places. Solar, in the form of carbon matter then converted into all the fossil fuels for example, wind, tides, all driven by the big convection engine that in turn is driven by the sun, and radioactive decay.

Ultimately, those are the only two. This angle makes eco-lunatics uncomfotable, because it squarely deposits wind and solar in with fossil fuels (historical stored sunlight and radioactive decay in the form of increased temperatures upon burial and conversion).

This happens because they have bought into the propaganda side of renewables without actually considering certain facts, those being...given time...all fossil fuels will be unearthed and released into the atmosphere, one way or another. Be it through simple erosion, as has happened in California oil fields already, or the Canadian tar sands, or tectonic activity as the fossil fuels are boiled away, subsumed within magma and released through volcanic activity, humans are just accelerating a natural process.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Real forms of power represent 96.4% of Spanish electricity in November 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes ancient plants and animals that were not allowed to properly rot,  and are in limited supply,  a real form of power,  compared to the the sun,  the original source of all energy here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Assuming you are looking for actual REAL answer to where human power generation comes from, ultimately it derives from only two places. Solar, in the form of carbon matter then converted into all the fossil fuels for example, wind, tides, all driven by the big convection engine that in turn is driven by the sun, and radioactive decay.
> 
> Ultimately, those are the only two. This angle makes eco-lunatics uncomfotable, because it squarely deposits wind and solar in with fossil fuels (historical stored sunlight and radioactive decay in the form of increased temperatures upon burial and conversion).
> 
> This happens because they have bought into the propaganda side of renewables without actually considering certain facts, those being...given time...all fossil fuels will be unearthed and released into the atmosphere, one way or another. Be it through simple erosion, as has happened in California oil fields already, or the Canadian tar sands, or tectonic activity as the fossil fuels are boiled away, subsumed within magma and released through volcanic activity, humans are just accelerating a natural process.
Click to expand...


The formation of fossil fuels was a natural process that sequestered much carbon away from the atmosphere,  creating the climate that life has adapted to.  I see no evidence that anything less than cataclysmic earthly events would have naturally undone what nature did in that respect. 

The fusion going on in the sun, whose energy is shared with the planets,  is the least limited supply of energy available to us.  It's renewed every day. 

Every other conceivable energy source on earth is temporary in comparison. 

We have the technology available right here and now to start harvesting this least limited source directly,  or through wind and hydro. 

It makes no economic sense not to maximise this fuel and waste free resource first and foremost. 

Then fill in only where we have to.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Why not let people get solar if they wish? Why so butt hurt???? Truly a limitless resource for us all.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> We have the technology available right here and now to start harvesting this least limited source directly,  or through wind and hydro.
> 
> It makes no economic sense not to maximise this fuel and waste free resource first and foremost.
> 
> Then fill in only where we have to.



Well, apparently Spain has to fill in 96%+ of the time, in terms of electrical generation. But you don't have to sell me, I'm already doing just what you suggest because I think it is a completely reasonable position to take.

Even more so now that I can fill my cars fuel tank with free solar.

From each fuel according to its ability, to each use according to need....YES! 

The first thing Karl Marxx was ever right about, it just doesn't work with people but makes perfect sense for fuels!


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> Why not let people get solar if they wish? Why so butt hurt???? Truly a limitless resource for us all.



Then use it that way. And we won't have to see posts advertising investor hopes and dreams cluttering up the energy forum after dark.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not let people get solar if they wish? Why so butt hurt???? Truly a limitless resource for us all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then use it that way. And we won't have to see posts advertising investor hopes and dreams cluttering up the energy forum after dark.
Click to expand...


Are you the same RGR that posted above?


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Chicago Quits Coal, Cuts Electricity Bills*





> Everyone knows quitting coal saves millions in externalities like healthcare, but what about when quitting coal also saves millions for utility ratepayers?
> 
> The city of Chicago recently showed how moving past coal can achieve both ideal outcomes, by inking a unique power supply deal with the utility Constellation that sources municipal demand exclusively from non-coal generation facilities.
> 
> But best of all, the two-year deal will actually cut Chicago&#8217;s utility bills by hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, adding quantifiable benefits to the esoteric environmental and climate impacts of cutting coal consumption.



Read more at Chicago Quits Coal, Cuts Electricity Bills


----------



## ScienceRocks

*The Peak Oil Crisis: California&#8217;s Bubble Pops
Production *


> There was an important study released by the Post Carbon Institute last week that gives us an insight into how long our great shale oil bonanza or more likely bubble is going to last. As you might suspect, the thrust of the new report is bad news so we are unlikely to ever read much about it in the mainstream media which continues to tell us about the bright energy-rich future ahead.
> 
> By now we should all know about the technological wonder of &#8220;fracking&#8221; that has raised America&#8217;s oil production by over 2 million barrels a day (b/d) in the last few years and has reversed the decline of our conventional natural gas production. The speed with which this has happened has been amazing and shows that if oil prices get high enough (oil has risen from $20 to $100+ a barrel in the last decade), then we can have all the oil we will ever want.
> 
> Rapid increases in production, however, mean that the faster we use up something the sooner will come the day when production starts to decline and that may not be very far away. In the case of North Dakota, new drilling seems to be concentrating in four counties, known as sweet spots, which may be the only places where it is profitable to drill at today&#8217;s prices. With new drilling concentrated in a small geographical area it may soon be the case that there are no new places to drill &#8211; but since this is probably at least a couple of years off, there is no sense in worrying about it.
> 
> While areas in Texas and North Dakota are where spectacular increases in oil production have taken place, less well known is that our energy future really is supposed to rest in California, where the government says some two-thirds of America&#8217;s shale oil will be found. Should North Dakota and south Texas ever start running dry, all we will need to do is move the drilling rigs to California and there will be enough new oil to last for many years. Energy independence, millions of jobs and a bonanza of tax revenue will come when California&#8217;s oil production revives.
> 
> To make sure there was no mistake about the good times ahead, the U.S. Department of Energy hired a contractor to examine America&#8217;s shale oil reserves to make sure there really was a bonanza of oil and gas out there that could be accessed by horizontal drilling and fracking. To no one&#8217;s surprise, the contractor came back and said &#8220;Yes America&#8221; there are 24 billion barrels of oil there for the taking.


The Peak Oil Crisis: California?s Bubble Pops *|* Peak Oil News and Message Boards


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> *The Peak Oil Crisis: Californias Bubble Pops
> Production *



Oh now you are like waving a red flag of ignorance with the words "peak oil". Might as well tattoo "resource retarded" on your forehead.



			
				Matthew said:
			
		

> There was an important study released by the Post Carbon Institute last week that gives us an insight.
Click to expand...


That didn't take long to prove it now, did it? Do you know who PCI is? Where they originated, and from whom, and the proclamations of the natural gas cliff in 2005 in America? Yeahthey won't talk about that much for obvious reasons.

If you want to reference flat earthers, fine by me, just don't do your normal whining when folks notice that you obviously can't tell the difference between real sources and advocacy group always predicting the end..and then hoping idiots like you don't notice how many other times they have claimed the same crap and it didn't work out.



			
				PIC-i.e.THE OIL IGNORANT said:
			
		

> By now we should all know about the technological wonder of fracking that has raised Americas oil production by over 2 million barrels a day (b/d) in the last few years and has reversed the decline of our conventional natural gas production.



Notice the cute, and misleading, sidestep right here. PCI was founded by the "Natural Gas Cliff in America in 2005" gangand increased gas production didn't just reverse decline, it created an all time, NEW, high of gas production in the US, 40 years after the last one predicted by Hubbert. Discrediting HUbbert's method at the same time it does PCI.

But PCI doesn't state the facts now do they? And the oil-ignorant, like you Matthew, don't have a CLUE as to the difference between real sources and other oil-ignorant like yourself.



			
				PCI-i.e.Oil-Ignorant said:
			
		

> The speed with which this has happened has been amazing and shows that if oil prices get high enough (oil has risen from $20 to $100+ a barrel in the last decade), then we can have all the oil we will ever want.



Here PCI demonstrates ignorance in the basics of economic theory. (Critical thinking lesson MatthewPCI has neither a petroleum engineer, nor an economist, on staff to explain these things to themtake note if you ever wish to not be classed as just as dumbass as the public at large).

Cost supply curves are rarely linear, and explicitly demonstrate that high prices do not unlock all the oil we ever want, and obviously those who understand and have done resource estimates  can even provide numbers to back up that idea.

But the oil ignorantlike PCIalways miss this one as well.



			
				PCI-i.e.Oil-Ignorant said:
			
		

> To make sure there was no mistake about the good times ahead, the U.S. Department of Energy hired a contractor to examine Americas shale oil reserves to make sure there really was a bonanza of oil and gas out there that could be accessed by horizontal drilling and fracking. To no ones surprise, the contractor came back and said Yes America there are 24 billion barrels of oil there for the taking.


The Peak Oil Crisis: California?s Bubble Pops *|* Peak Oil News and Message Boards[/QUOTE]

Oh now you have GOT to be kidding, PO.com? 

So first you collect oil-ignorant advocacy groups, then you demonstrate you are oil-ignorant with zero knowledge of how poor your source is, and now you reference another gang of oil ignorant like yourself to provewhat? That there are BUNCHES of oil-ignorant folks out there!!???

Congratulationsyou have succeeded in proving that you, nor your sources, know anything about oil. Well done!


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Peak Oil Crisis: Californias Bubble Pops
> Production *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh now you are like waving a red flag of ignorance with the words "peak oil". Might as well tattoo "resource retarded" on your forehead.
> 
> 
> That didn't take long to prove it now, did it? Do you know who PCI is? Where they originated, and from whom, and the proclamations of the natural gas cliff in 2005 in America? Yeahthey won't talk about that much for obvious reasons.
> 
> If you want to reference flat earthers, fine by me, just don't do your normal whining when folks notice that you obviously can't tell the difference between real sources and advocacy group always predicting the end..and then hoping idiots like you don't notice how many other times they have claimed the same crap and it didn't work out.
> 
> 
> 
> Notice the cute, and misleading, sidestep right here. PCI was founded by the "Natural Gas Cliff in America in 2005" gangand increased gas production didn't just reverse decline, it created an all time, NEW, high of gas production in the US, 40 years after the last one predicted by Hubbert. Discrediting HUbbert's method at the same time it does PCI.
> 
> But PCI doesn't state the facts now do they? And the oil-ignorant, like you Matthew, don't have a CLUE as to the difference between real sources and other oil-ignorant like yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCI-i.e.Oil-Ignorant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The speed with which this has happened has been amazing and shows that if oil prices get high enough (oil has risen from $20 to $100+ a barrel in the last decade), then we can have all the oil we will ever want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here PCI demonstrates ignorance in the basics of economic theory. (Critical thinking lesson MatthewPCI has neither a petroleum engineer, nor an economist, on staff to explain these things to themtake note if you ever wish to not be classed as just as dumbass as the public at large).
> 
> Cost supply curves are rarely linear, and explicitly demonstrate that high prices do not unlock all the oil we ever want, and obviously those who understand and have done resource estimates  can even provide numbers to back up that idea.
> 
> But the oil ignorantlike PCIalways miss this one as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PCI-i.e.Oil-Ignorant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To make sure there was no mistake about the good times ahead, the U.S. Department of Energy hired a contractor to examine Americas shale oil reserves to make sure there really was a bonanza of oil and gas out there that could be accessed by horizontal drilling and fracking. To no ones surprise, the contractor came back and said Yes America there are 24 billion barrels of oil there for the taking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Peak Oil Crisis: California?s Bubble Pops *|* Peak Oil News and Message Boards
Click to expand...


Oh now you have GOT to be kidding, PO.com? 

So first you collect oil-ignorant advocacy groups, then you demonstrate you are oil-ignorant with zero knowledge of how poor your source is, and now you reference another gang of oil ignorant like yourself to provewhat? That there are BUNCHES of oil-ignorant folks out there!!???

Congratulationsyou have succeeded in proving that you, nor your sources, know anything about oil. Well done![/QUOTE]

I noticed the zero evidence that you offered.  A lot of words,  all about what you wish was true. 

While you can wish for the moon,  people who solve problems and make progress have to be more grounded in reality.  

Feel free to carry on wishing.  We just won't expect anything from you.


----------



## ScienceRocks

> A creative application of a method previously used to analyze data at Mars also revealed that *Ligeia Mare is about 560 feet (170 meters) deep.* This is the first time scientists have been able to plumb the bottom of a lake or sea on Titan. This was possible partly because the liquid turned out to be very pure, allowing the radar signal to pass through it easily. The liquid surface may be as smooth as the paint on our cars, and it is very clear to radar eyes.
> The new results indicate the liquid is mostly methane, somewhat similar to a liquid form of natural gas on Earth.
> 
> "Ligeia Mare turned out to be just the right depth for radar to detect a signal back from the sea floor, which is a signal we didn't think we'd be able to get," said Marco Mastrogiuseppe, a Cassini radar team associate at Sapienza University of Rome. "The measurement we made shows Ligeia to be deeper in at least one place than the average depth of Lake Michigan."
> 
> One implication is that Cassini scientists now can estimate the total volume of the liquids on Titan. Based on Mastrogiuseppe's work, calculations made by Alexander Hayes, of Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y., *show there are about 2,000 cubic miles (9,000 cubic kilometers) of liquid hydrocarbon, about 40 times more than in all the proven oil reservoirs on Earth. *



http://phys.org/news/2013-12-cassini-spacecraft-reveals-clues-saturn.html

Just for the people that think there's nothing worth going after in space.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> I noticed the zero evidence that you offered.  A lot of words,  all about what you wish was true.



Experience, with oil and gas, or po.com, is the basis for the words.

You want evidence? Surehere is PO.com terrified of the great natural gas cliff in 2005. Geewhat foresight, right? 

Without even trying hardtook 1 minute.and look, they even talk about Darley! Quick fact checkwhere do the roots of PCI come from?

You can just SMELL the same sort of fear mongering that peak oilers manufacture by the boatload, and PCI is desperately trying to sell in their trips to Washington to try and convince the professionals.



			
				A PO.com Halfwit circa 2005 when they were really scared! said:
			
		

> As Julian Darley described so well in his recent book High Noon For Natural Gas, North America is now in the early stages of a continent-wide natural gas supply crisis.
> 
> The Energy Potential of Geopressurized Brine : Energy Technology - Peak Oil News and Message Boards



and here is PCI hoping, wishing, DREAMING for some credibility, and just not being able to sell their hopes and wishes

Post Carbon Institute Goes to Washington



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> While you can wish for the moon,  people who solve problems and make progress have to be more grounded in reality.



Damn straight. Those of us who have drilled wells, purchased commercial power, delivered CH4 to the burner tip, done the science, explained the analysis to the world and others know darn well the value of solving these problems.

And we don't pimp the latest investor hopes and dreams when it comes to keeping the lights on, and the power flowing.


----------



## ScienceRocks

> In the meantime, its radar passes will continue to fill in gaps in the scientists' surface map. One key flyover next year will allow the probe to take similar bathymetric measurements at Kraken.
> 
> "Kraken's area is four to five times the size Ligeia, so if it has a similar depth profile you would expect it to have about *200 times the proven oil reserves on Earth*," said Alex Hayes from Cornell University.
> 
> "By way of comparison, the estimate for the volume of Ligeia is twice that of Lake Michigan. And for all the [seas on Titan], it is 15 times the volume of Lake Michigan."



BBC News - Titan moon's colossal methane seas

You fossil fuel fuckers must be licking your fucking lips  This is the only way you can honestly compete with solar in the long run.


----------



## Politico

Matthew said:


> Why not let people get solar if they wish? Why so butt hurt???? Truly a limitless resource for us all.



Yeah. Show us your setup.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed the zero evidence that you offered.  A lot of words,  all about what you wish was true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Experience, with oil and gas, or po.com, is the basis for the words.
> 
> You want evidence? Surehere is PO.com terrified of the great natural gas cliff in 2005. Geewhat foresight, right?
> 
> Without even trying hardtook 1 minute.and look, they even talk about Darley! Quick fact checkwhere do the roots of PCI come from?
> 
> You can just SMELL the same sort of fear mongering that peak oilers manufacture by the boatload, and PCI is desperately trying to sell in their trips to Washington to try and convince the professionals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A PO.com Halfwit circa 2005 when they were really scared! said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Julian Darley described so well in his recent book High Noon For Natural Gas, North America is now in the early stages of a continent-wide natural gas supply crisis.
> 
> The Energy Potential of Geopressurized Brine : Energy Technology - Peak Oil News and Message Boards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and here is PCI hoping, wishing, DREAMING for some credibility, and just not being able to sell their hopes and wishes
> 
> Post Carbon Institute Goes to Washington
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While you can wish for the moon,  people who solve problems and make progress have to be more grounded in reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damn straight. Those of us who have drilled wells, purchased commercial power, delivered CH4 to the burner tip, done the science, explained the analysis to the world and others know darn well the value of solving these problems.
> 
> And we don't pimp the latest investor hopes and dreams when it comes to keeping the lights on, and the power flowing.
Click to expand...


Investors live in the future,  you in the past.  Here's a hint.  The past is not coming back.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Investors live in the future,  you in the past.  Here's a hint.  The past is not coming back.



Yes. Those of us who invest are well aware of that. Those of us actually providing a majority of the energy used in the country, and world, are also aware of this. 

Feel free to find as many Solyndras as possible and invest in them.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Investors live in the future,  you in the past.  Here's a hint.  The past is not coming back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Those of us who invest are well aware of that. Those of us actually providing a majority of the energy used in the country, and world, are also aware of this.
> 
> Feel free to find as many Solyndras as possible and invest in them.
Click to expand...


Your comment reveals the majestic depth of your ignorance in the business risk inherent in new technology,  and why,  if we waited for people like you to fund it,  we'd be decades behind the rest of the world. 

Conservatism is always unaffordable.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*CPI completes massive hybrid solar PV/hydro plant in Western China*



> A subsidiary of China Power Investment Corp. (CPI, Beijing) has completed 320 MW solar photovoltaic (PV) plant co-located with an existing hydroelectric dam in Qinghai Province, Northwestern China.
> 
> Through this design, the 1.28 GW Longyangxia Hydro Power Station will smooth the output of the PV portion of the plant. This is one of the largest PV plants in the world, as well as the largest PV/hydro project to date.
> 
> Hydroelectric generation has been used successfully in other regions of the world to balance the variable output of renewable energy sources cheaply on a very large scale. The very high rate of wind penetration on the Danish grid &#8211; around a third of electricity demand &#8211; is made possible by balancing the variable output with hydroelectric generation in Sweden and Norway.



KW50*|*CPI completes massive hybrid solar PV/hydro plant in Western China*-*SolarServer


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to find as many Solyndras as possible and invest in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your comment reveals the majestic depth of your ignorance in the business risk inherent in new technology,  and why,  if we waited for people like you to fund it,  we'd be decades behind the rest of the world.
> 
> Conservatism is always unaffordable.
Click to expand...


While you might be correct, that with experience in an industry that has been around since, and itself lifted mankind out of the wonders of a horse powered world, I am less experienced in risk of a new business, that is basically irrelevant to the point.

I have no objection to solar, wind, tide, dairy farms and land fill methane projects in the least. But no objection does not translate to either Matthews whole hearted pimping of investor presentations of things that are not ready for prime time, let alone pretending that spectacular failures to date, backed by the US government and possibly financed because they were pimping the ignorant in that government.

FUNDING is not the issue, the ability to meet the criteria laid down by flacaltenn is.

Tell me about your particular favorite technologies ability to deliver my 150 MW at 10PM on next Thursday night to the northern Arkansas power grid. And after you convince me that you can deliver said power, tell me how much you would like for said power.

Make it cheaper than the folks I normally would buy such power from, and undoubtedly you will succeed. Your hopes and dreams can not yet be counted on to fulfill this basic requirement of power sales, even after how many decades of government funded, and wasted, monies?

Pimp investors all you'd like, answer the above question with a number less than that provided by NG and you are golden and require no idiots like Matthew to pimp uniform farts and hopium.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to find as many Solyndras as possible and invest in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your comment reveals the majestic depth of your ignorance in the business risk inherent in new technology,  and why,  if we waited for people like you to fund it,  we'd be decades behind the rest of the world.
> 
> Conservatism is always unaffordable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While you might be correct, that with experience in an industry that has been around since, and itself lifted mankind out of the wonders of a horse powered world, I am less experienced in risk of a new business, that is basically irrelevant to the point.
> 
> I have no objection to solar, wind, tide, dairy farms and land fill methane projects in the least. But no objection does not translate to either Matthews whole hearted pimping of investor presentations of things that are not ready for prime time, let alone pretending that spectacular failures to date, backed by the US government and possibly financed because they were pimping the ignorant in that government.
> 
> FUNDING is not the issue, the ability to meet the criteria laid down by flacaltenn is.
> 
> Tell me about your particular favorite technologies ability to deliver my 150 MW at 10PM on next Thursday night to the northern Arkansas power grid. And after you convince me that you can deliver said power, tell me how much you would like for said power.
> 
> Make it cheaper than the folks I normally would buy such power from, and undoubtedly you will succeed. Your hopes and dreams can not yet be counted on to fulfill this basic requirement of power sales, even after how many decades of government funded, and wasted, monies?
> 
> Pimp investors all you'd like, answer the above question with a number less than that provided by NG and you are golden and require no idiots like Matthew to pimp uniform farts and hopium.
Click to expand...


Of course,  there is no long term solution to your future energy needs.  Only past memories.  Thats why government is the only man standing in developing a long term solution. 

To not squeeze all that can be from fuel-less and waste-less sources would be monumental foolishness. 

Especially when it's so clear that the first major problem to be solved is in transportation. Which requires built in energy storage. 

We can't move to EVs charged by intermittent energy sources load matched by variable pricing quick enough.  Any progress saves diminishing oil reserves for things that we have no alternative for like airplanes.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Of course,  there is no long term solution to your future energy needs.  Only past memories.  Thats why government is the only man standing in developing a long term solution.



Government is the gang throwing money into Solyndra. That isn't called last man standing, but how much taxpayer funds will be used to pay off the loans on ideas that don't work.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> To not squeeze all that can be from fuel-less and waste-less sources would be monumental foolishness.



Of course it would be. And to recognize that renewables have a real, REAL problem with providing base load is the same.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> Especially when it's so clear that the first major problem to be solved is in transportation. Which requires built in energy storage.



Transportation is kids stuff. I already do it, other folks at my kids school do it, the solutions are easy as walking down to your favorite car dealer and buying one. My UPS delivery truck isn't even powered by liquid fuels anymore but compressed natural gas.you could turn entire communities into places transported without needing crude oil from countries either contributing to the US trade imbalance or just want to kill Americansbut noAmericans can't even be counted on to do the right thing when it really is the right thing, now can they?

But that is why the solution to much of this is generational in nature.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> We can't move to EVs charged by intermittent energy sources load matched by variable pricing quick enough.  Any progress saves diminishing oil reserves for things that we have no alternative for like airplanes.



Oil reserves haven't "diminished" in decades, and certainly aren't showing signs of doing it anytime soon either.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed the zero evidence that you offered.  A lot of words,  all about what you wish was true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Experience, with oil and gas, or po.com, is the basis for the words.
> 
> You want evidence? Surehere is PO.com terrified of the great natural gas cliff in 2005. Geewhat foresight, right?
> 
> Without even trying hardtook 1 minute.and look, they even talk about Darley! Quick fact checkwhere do the roots of PCI come from?
> 
> You can just SMELL the same sort of fear mongering that peak oilers manufacture by the boatload, and PCI is desperately trying to sell in their trips to Washington to try and convince the professionals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A PO.com Halfwit circa 2005 when they were really scared! said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Julian Darley described so well in his recent book High Noon For Natural Gas, North America is now in the early stages of a continent-wide natural gas supply crisis.
> 
> The Energy Potential of Geopressurized Brine : Energy Technology - Peak Oil News and Message Boards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and here is PCI hoping, wishing, DREAMING for some credibility, and just not being able to sell their hopes and wishes
> 
> Post Carbon Institute Goes to Washington
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While you can wish for the moon,  people who solve problems and make progress have to be more grounded in reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damn straight. Those of us who have drilled wells, purchased commercial power, delivered CH4 to the burner tip, done the science, explained the analysis to the world and others know darn well the value of solving these problems.
> 
> And we don't pimp the latest investor hopes and dreams when it comes to keeping the lights on, and the power flowing.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you're trying to keep your job in a dying industry. You're obsolete.  Wishing otherwise is not going to cut it.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Sounds like you're trying to keep your job in a dying industry.



Ohdoesn't strike me as dying quite yet, if measured in terms of who makes the most QUADS of BTUs for human use. And will for the foreseeable future. You have seen the IEA estimates on such things I assume? Funnythey don't assume that everything will be run by windmills and solar over the next quarter century any more then I do.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> You're obsolete.  Wishing otherwise is not going to cut it.



Oil is obsolete. That doesn't mean it, and me, don't have plenty of time left because folksthey just keep asking for the stuff.

Renewables at 14% in 2035go renewables!!


----------



## ScienceRocks

I am not fighting to replace fossil fuels but to use less of them.

Why not 20% of our electricy from wind, solar, wave and hydro? Less imports from the middle east that hates us.


----------



## PMZ

The oil reserves might last,  if we stretch them,  for 100 years. Probably less.  We can burn them up in devices for which we have options,  or save them for things with no options.  We can also decide not to waste what we burn in ridiculous cars. 

We can also save ourselves a ton of money by not putting all of that sequestered carbon back into the atmosphere as GHG.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Something like this would do the trick 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energy/297526-advances-in-batteries-energy-thread-9.html#post8294025


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> I am not fighting to replace fossil fuels but to use less of them.



Why do you need to "fight" to use less fossil fuels? It's so easy, you walk, you mass transit, you go EV and put panels on the roof. Pimping investor hopium to the masses certainly isn't fighting.



			
				Matthew said:
			
		

> Why not 20% of our electricy from wind, solar, wave and hydro? Less imports from the middle east that hates us.



20% is fine. Or even the 14% in the graphic I provided. And then after that bring in the nukes and natural gas!!!


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> The oil reserves might last,  if we stretch them,  for 100 years.



Stretching them, they might go 200.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> We can burn them up in devices for which we have options,  or save them for things with no options.  We can also decide not to waste what we burn in ridiculous cars.



Plenty folks are already covering that base!! They even reduced the price this year so others can join in on the boycotting of any fuels from outside the country!








			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> We can also save ourselves a ton of money by not putting all of that sequestered carbon back into the atmosphere as GHG.



We can save ourselves a ton of money by using the products that cost us the least money! Bring on more CH4!! Burn it and get the work out of it before it becomes CO2 using natural processes anyway!


----------



## PMZ

Why do you believe methane after these millennia underground will,  all of a sudden pop out? 

You believe that your denial of AGW will turn it off.  I don't think that you have anywhere near that much power. 

It is already taking hundreds of lives and costing billions of dollars every year.  That's a drop in the bucket compared to what it will do, whether or not you deny it.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Why do you believe methane after these millennia underground will,  all of a sudden pop out?



I don't. But just as geologic time (not all of a sudden by human measure) will unroof oil and gas fields in time, it will do the same for the hydrates. Might as well get the work out of them before all of this happens.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> You believe that your denial of AGW will turn it off.  I don't think that you have anywhere near that much power.



Nobody who has taken Geology 101 can deny climate warming, it can be proven with the glacial boulders and other evidence in Central Park to anyone silly enough to not believe that the planet has warmed substantially. Apparently, more than a few times since the last ice age.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> It is already taking hundreds of lives and costing billions of dollars every year.  That's a drop in the bucket compared to what it will do, whether or not you deny it.



Warming has already opened up more opportunities and land for humans than the "warm is bad" gang will ever admit. People have been getting killed by weather events during the Little Ice Age as well as prior periods of warming, so pretending that the death toll is some sort of measure is just standard fear mongering.


----------



## PMZ

AGW is what we control.  We're doing it and we can stop doing it.  Anybody who tries to sell that changes to the climate that mankind has adapted to in everything that we've built will be a piece of cake is guilty of dreaming rather than planning. 

We can put all of the carbon that nature sequestered for us back into the atmosphere and recreate the hostile climate that existed then,  then move to sustainable energy sources,  or we can move more rapidly to sustainable and spend less on adaptation to a new climate. 

I choose the less expensive route,  you,  the more costly. 

The only reason that I can imagine that you'd do that is to kick the can down the road to our grandchildren.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> AGW is what we control.



Thinking humans "control" the climate is hubris at its worst.

Maybe we effect it, maybe our presence causes it to be different in certain ways, but we no more "control" climate than we can "destroy" the planet.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> We're doing it and we can stop doing it.



You first. Please. Because only if you can do it, do you get to insist that everyone else do the same. And obviously, if you succeed, you won't be able to do that. Call it a win-win!



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> We can put all of the carbon that nature sequestered for us back into the atmosphere and recreate the hostile climate that existed then,  then move to sustainable energy sources,  or we can move more rapidly to sustainable and spend less on adaptation to a new climate.



You miss the point. You are already IN a new climate, and are now arguing about adapting from a position that you have adapted to quite well. Do you consider yourself poor from having been forced to adapt? Certainly the global standard of living has changed as we've adapted, and I have news, it hasn't been for the worse.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> I choose the less expensive route,  you,  the more costly.



Yes, the solar panels putting fuel in the tank of my car says I have certainly spent more than my neighbors on their ICE powered machines. Silly me, taking the much more expensive route of a much more expensive car than they drive and those panels on the roof. Goodness knows your way is so much cheaper than mine. What are you advocating that is so cheap again, versus my expensive methods of solar panels and the electrification of personal transport?



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> The only reason that I can imagine that you'd do that is to kick the can down the road to our grandchildren.



Maybe not yours, if I can get you to try out your position of not emitting CO2, at the personal level.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> AGW is what we control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking humans "control" the climate is hubris at its worst.
> 
> Maybe we effect it, maybe our presence causes it to be different in certain ways, but we no more "control" climate than we can "destroy" the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're doing it and we can stop doing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You first. Please. Because only if you can do it, do you get to insist that everyone else do the same. And obviously, if you succeed, you won't be able to do that. Call it a win-win!
> 
> 
> 
> You miss the point. You are already IN a new climate, and are now arguing about adapting from a position that you have adapted to quite well. Do you consider yourself poor from having been forced to adapt? Certainly the global standard of living has changed as we've adapted, and I have news, it hasn't been for the worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I choose the less expensive route,  you,  the more costly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the solar panels putting fuel in the tank of my car says I have certainly spent more than my neighbors on their ICE powered machines. Silly me, taking the much more expensive route of a much more expensive car than they drive and those panels on the roof. Goodness knows your way is so much cheaper than mine. What are you advocating that is so cheap again, versus my expensive methods of solar panels and the electrification of personal transport?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason that I can imagine that you'd do that is to kick the can down the road to our grandchildren.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe not yours, if I can get you to try out your position of not emitting CO2, at the personal level.
Click to expand...


AGW is 100% man caused. And that's what's changing and that's the only cause of the current climate change. The climate that we're experiencing now has not caught up to the GHG concentrations in the atmosphere today.  We don't know how long that takes. Could be decades. And by the time the climate change stabilizes from this load of GHGs we'll be well beyond.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> AGW is 100% man caused.



That is because it is DEFINED that way. Give me a break, the folks making the all human, all the time claims having been having a difficult time as of late. 

First they claim to know the system well enough to predict temperature, and then get cranky when others noticed that the past decade hasn't gone quite as hoped, others decide that temperature is still within the bounds of natural variability within the system and could stay that way for the rest of the century (Kobashi, et al 2011) and when folks make the most basic of requests, say, please show me how well your model works over the known ice ages and other warm periods (like the one we are naturally in now) ..and the models can'twellgetting a wee bit difficult to accept the definition PMZ.

If you can't even define what is, or is not, natural, then you don't get to whine about how much is manmade without admitting that of the possible range of answers, one in that solution set might be NONE.

I recommend doing the science first, drawing the conclusions second.




			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> And that's what's changing and that's the only cause of the current climate change.



Yes, I understand that religions require belief in things. And that there are more than a few missionaries out there. Go knock on someone else's door please.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> The climate that we're experiencing now has not caught up to the GHG concentrations in the atmosphere today.  We don't know how long that takes. Could be decades. And by the time the climate change stabilizes from this load of GHGs we'll be well beyond.



Humans, doing everything from breathing to combusting stuff certainly creates CO2 as a byproduct. What appears to be in question is the amount of hysteria people think this should generate.


----------



## PMZ

I 





vyxen said:


> _Originally posted by janeeng _
> *Well, I wasn't with the Canadians either when they sent that damn SARS here and claimed of no dangers of it there, and that travel should continue there, regardless of the outbreak of SARS there, and no one can tell me no.  A student of mine brought SARS back from Canada after they were told NOT to go, but refused to listen! *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was confined to 3 hospitals, not to the community, not to the airport or any other community place. But you seem to have your head so far up your right-wing ass that you're willing to believe whatever you want to believe. So are you saying this "student" of yours went to a hospital and brought back SARS to New Jersey?
> 
> Besides, according to the CDC, only one person in New Jersey had SARS. They were 40 years old and didn't die from it. Are you saying that that person was your student? And btw, they don't even know where that person got SARS from.  I suspect, no, I KNOW you're lying. As a supposed teacher, you should know better, sweetheart.
Click to expand...


AGW is easily and precisely defined.  It's the consequence of changeable human activities that put GHGs into the atmosphere. They inexorably change planet earth's energy balance such that warming is required to restore a stable climate.


----------



## ScienceRocks

100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year)
Read more at 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year) | CleanTechnica


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year)
> Read more at 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year) | CleanTechnica



and what percent of power was generated by natural gas, nukes and coal last month? 90%+? 95%+?

Let us know when loads of capacity actually becomes generation.


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year)
> Read more at 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year) | CleanTechnica



Do you really lack the critical thinking to evaluate propaganda such as this?   Thats a shame really..  Detracts from all the hard blogging you attempt to do here...  That and your  unfounded political commentaries make all your work subject to skepticism...


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year)
> Read more at 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year) | CleanTechnica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really lack the critical thinking to evaluate propaganda such as this?   Thats a shame really..  Detracts from all the hard blogging you attempt to do here...  That and your  unfounded political commentaries make all your work subject to skepticism...
Click to expand...


Fear of change is an awful affliction in a world constantly on the move.


----------



## flacaltenn

PMZ said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year)
> Read more at 100% Of New Power Capacity In US Came From Renewable Energy In November (2nd Month This Year) | CleanTechnica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really lack the critical thinking to evaluate propaganda such as this?   Thats a shame really..  Detracts from all the hard blogging you attempt to do here...  That and your  unfounded political commentaries make all your work subject to skepticism...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fear of change is an awful affliction in a world constantly on the move.
Click to expand...


I've finally figured you out PMZ.  The only thing youve read in the pasr 30 yrs are Chinese Fortune cookies.  I got your last post with Mu Shu Pork just last week...


----------



## PMZ

flacaltenn said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really lack the critical thinking to evaluate propaganda such as this?   Thats a shame really..  Detracts from all the hard blogging you attempt to do here...  That and your  unfounded political commentaries make all your work subject to skepticism...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fear of change is an awful affliction in a world constantly on the move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've finally figured you out PMZ.  The only thing youve read in the pasr 30 yrs are Chinese Fortune cookies.  I got your last post with Mu Shu Pork just last week...
Click to expand...


Now we know where your education came from. Chinese fortune cookies. 

Ask for your money back. It turns out that you are not educated at all.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear of change is an awful affliction in a world constantly on the move.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've finally figured you out PMZ.  The only thing youve read in the pasr 30 yrs are Chinese Fortune cookies.  I got your last post with Mu Shu Pork just last week...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now we know where your education came from. Chinese fortune cookies.
> 
> Ask for your money back. It turns out that you are not educated at all.
Click to expand...


You know, one of the things you learn throughout life is that whether you agree with folks or not, it is important to recognize the difference between quality opinions (whether you agree with them or not) and those based on hope or an ignorance of reality.

I don't agree with flacaltenn all that much, but when I read what he says, and the information he provides, and I think about it, it is my estimate that his opinions are firmly grounded in the same sort of engineering reality that I am familiar with. Education, no education, his writing reflects an understanding of reality.

It might be a limited reality, but engineers are not known for being wildly creative, other than within the confines of their problem solving specialty. 

flacaltenn has ably explained and demonstrated that there is quite a difference between capacity and what might called EFFECTIVE capacity, loosely defined as that capacity that can meet contractual power delivery requirements. 

It does not matter what his education is, your opinion of it, or him. The reality of his point can not be dismissed that way. Trying to substitute name calling for refuting the reality of how power distribution works is nothing more than an admission that you aren't smart enough to work around the real world problem he has outlined.

This is the mark of the pie in the sky true believer types, those who have never been held accountable for real world results. Project managers MUST know when to recognize the reality that will prevent their pie in the sky idea from becoming reality, solve that problem, estimate the cost, and deliver those kwh on time, and on target.

Those who have never worked in that kind of environment, or those who cannot think well enough to recognize real world constraints, are free to rely on hopium and unicorn farts to power their fantasy world any way they'd wish. Matthew falls for this one every time. 

But engineers aren't paid to hope and dream and then NOT provide what is required. It isn't their job to specialize in whining and name calling and pretending that this is an acceptable replacement for getting the job done.

Your opinion on flacaltenn's education is irrelevant in light of what he knows and can explain, versus what you obviously do not.

Don't whine and moan and name call like Matthew does when it becomes obvious he is pitching uniform farts and hopium, square up against the problem and SOLVE it already. And that includes telling us all what it will cost, because from an economists point of view I can GUARANTEE you that the answer to that question is just as important as meeting the power generation requirement itself.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've finally figured you out PMZ.  The only thing youve read in the pasr 30 yrs are Chinese Fortune cookies.  I got your last post with Mu Shu Pork just last week...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now we know where your education came from. Chinese fortune cookies.
> 
> Ask for your money back. It turns out that you are not educated at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, one of the things you learn throughout life is that whether you agree with folks or not, it is important to recognize the difference between quality opinions (whether you agree with them or not) and those based on hope or an ignorance of reality.
> 
> I don't agree with flacaltenn all that much, but when I read what he says, and the information he provides, and I think about it, it is my estimate that his opinions are firmly grounded in the same sort of engineering reality that I am familiar with. Education, no education, his writing reflects an understanding of reality.
> 
> It might be a limited reality, but engineers are not known for being wildly creative, other than within the confines of their problem solving specialty.
> 
> flacaltenn has ably explained and demonstrated that there is quite a difference between capacity and what might called EFFECTIVE capacity, loosely defined as that capacity that can meet contractual power delivery requirements.
> 
> It does not matter what his education is, your opinion of it, or him. The reality of his point can not be dismissed that way. Trying to substitute name calling for refuting the reality of how power distribution works is nothing more than an admission that you aren't smart enough to work around the real world problem he has outlined.
> 
> This is the mark of the pie in the sky true believer types, those who have never been held accountable for real world results. Project managers MUST know when to recognize the reality that will prevent their pie in the sky idea from becoming reality, solve that problem, estimate the cost, and deliver those kwh on time, and on target.
> 
> Those who have never worked in that kind of environment, or those who cannot think well enough to recognize real world constraints, are free to rely on hopium and unicorn farts to power their fantasy world any way they'd wish. Matthew falls for this one every time.
> 
> But engineers aren't paid to hope and dream and then NOT provide what is required. It isn't their job to specialize in whining and name calling and pretending that this is an acceptable replacement for getting the job done.
> 
> Your opinion on flacaltenn's education is irrelevant in light of what he knows and can explain, versus what you obviously do not.
> 
> Don't whine and moan and name call like Matthew does when it becomes obvious he is pitching uniform farts and hopium, square up against the problem and SOLVE it already. And that includes telling us all what it will cost, because from an economists point of view I can GUARANTEE you that the answer to that question is just as important as meeting the power generation requirement itself.
Click to expand...


I am first, a scientist and second, an engineer. My experience is diametrically different than yours in "but engineers are not known for being wildly creative". I'm not much of a politician. 

The science is very clear on AGW. It's indisputable. That, however, is inconvenient to the politics of many people. 

We have long past peak oil. We are close to peak natural gas and coal. That is also indisputable and inconvenient for the entire human race. 

Mankind was very fortunate to have been bequeathed the gift of cheap abundant energy from past suns. However, inconveniently, the time has come when Christmas is over. Over the short time left that we have to accomplish the largest project by far in human history, we will have to get all of our energy from the current sun.

None of this is my opinion. 

No matter other people's opinions, educations, preferences, race, color or creed, doing nothing now is unaffordable. 

Perhaps that can be said in more effective ways for and by some other people, but it has to be said as loudly and compellingly as possible by those who have invested in the background necessary to understand the science. 

It really is that black and white. Denial is not an option.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> I am first, a scientist and second, an engineer. My experience is diametrically different than yours in "but engineers are not known for being wildly creative". I'm not much of a politician.



To hell with being a politician, how about demonstrating that you can THINK to the standards your claimed profession would imply.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> The science is very clear on AGW. It's indisputable. That, however, is inconvenient to the politics of many people.



As far as I am concerned, a scientist who says that something as disputable as the claims of "only we can explain warming" gang has just convinced me that they know NOTHING about how science works. A scientist/engineer who says this immediately implies they also know NOTHING about signal to noise ratio, let alone something about natural variability in systems not fully understood.

So do me a favor, you want to be taken seriously arenas how about you act as though you have experience in these those fields and the capability to understand why those who are so certain on this topic are probably the least likely to be right.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> We have long past peak oil. We are close to peak natural gas and coal. That is also indisputable and inconvenient for the entire human race.



How much ignorance do you want to display at once? Long past peak oil is ridiculous, and solidifies my impression that whatever science or engineering you are involved in, it certainly has nothing to do with the geosciences. You don't have a clue about natural gas either, because certainly only a fool confuses the available estimates of the CH4 molecule around the globe, with expected future usage, and thinks that means "close to peak".

So what science and engineering are you familiar with that doesn't understand signal to noise issues? Doesn't know anything about the geosciences? Isn't familiar with geology or climatology? Doesn't understand natural variability in systems? Certainly your expertise isn't in physics, those guys deal with probability all the time, and you are way too absolute to be in that game.

Computer science? 



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> Mankind was very fortunate to have been bequeathed the gift of cheap abundant energy from past suns.



Cheap oil disappeared during the late 60's, early 70's and has been trending upwards ever since. And as of today, is more abundant than at any time in human history. Learn your facts before introducing chicken little propaganda into the conversation. So scratch economics from the list of things you have no experience in. And it isn't a GIFT, it does not spring from the ground in three grades of unleaded, it takes technology, CapEx, ingenuity, brilliant chemical engineers, and is then MANUFACTURED. 

Would be nice if the sun handed us 3 grades of unleaded. It doesn't. So this rules out you being a chemical engineer. You want to keep talking and I'll keep eliminating specialties just based on what you reveal you don't know?



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> No matter other people's opinions, educations, preferences, race, color or creed, doing nothing now is unaffordable.



You don't have to prove you don't understand economics again. How about you even TRY to define "unaffordable".



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> Perhaps that can be said in more effective ways for and by some other people, but it has to be said as loudly and compellingly as possible by those who have invested in the background necessary to understand the science.
> 
> It really is that black and white. Denial is not an option.



Platitudes. Generalizations. Grandiose PR statements. Hopes and dreams.

I need 120 MW delivered at 10PM on Thursday night. Tell me the plan for building out your favorite renewable to meet that need, at a competitive price. Square up and face the problem and tell us your solution because if you ARE an engineer, you should know better than to try and skate by on platitudes and generalizations. If you ARE a scientist, dear lord let you stay in your lab around only things you might know something about, because so far it isn't the geosciences, economics, physics, statistics or probability, chemical engineering and obviously nothing to do with power generation or distribution.

Comp Sci is about the only thing I can think of right off the top of my head that would allow you to not know anything about all these items and still claim what you do.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am first, a scientist and second, an engineer. My experience is diametrically different than yours in "but engineers are not known for being wildly creative". I'm not much of a politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To hell with being a politician, how about demonstrating that you can THINK to the standards your claimed profession would imply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The science is very clear on AGW. It's indisputable. That, however, is inconvenient to the politics of many people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I am concerned, a scientist who says that something as disputable as the claims of "only we can explain warming" gang has just convinced me that they know NOTHING about how science works. A scientist/engineer who says this immediately implies they also know NOTHING about signal to noise ratio, let alone something about natural variability in systems not fully understood.
> 
> So do me a favor, you want to be taken seriously arenas how about you act as though you have experience in these those fields and the capability to understand why those who are so certain on this topic are probably the least likely to be right.
> 
> 
> 
> How much ignorance do you want to display at once? Long past peak oil is ridiculous, and solidifies my impression that whatever science or engineering you are involved in, it certainly has nothing to do with the geosciences. You don't have a clue about natural gas either, because certainly only a fool confuses the available estimates of the CH4 molecule around the globe, with expected future usage, and thinks that means "close to peak".
> 
> So what science and engineering are you familiar with that doesn't understand signal to noise issues? Doesn't know anything about the geosciences? Isn't familiar with geology or climatology? Doesn't understand natural variability in systems? Certainly your expertise isn't in physics, those guys deal with probability all the time, and you are way too absolute to be in that game.
> 
> Computer science?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap oil disappeared during the late 60's, early 70's and has been trending upwards ever since. And as of today, is more abundant than at any time in human history. Learn your facts before introducing chicken little propaganda into the conversation. So scratch economics from the list of things you have no experience in. And it isn't a GIFT, it does not spring from the ground in three grades of unleaded, it takes technology, CapEx, ingenuity, brilliant chemical engineers, and is then MANUFACTURED.
> 
> Would be nice if the sun handed us 3 grades of unleaded. It doesn't. So this rules out you being a chemical engineer. You want to keep talking and I'll keep eliminating specialties just based on what you reveal you don't know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter other people's opinions, educations, preferences, race, color or creed, doing nothing now is unaffordable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have to prove you don't understand economics again. How about you even TRY to define "unaffordable".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps that can be said in more effective ways for and by some other people, but it has to be said as loudly and compellingly as possible by those who have invested in the background necessary to understand the science.
> 
> It really is that black and white. Denial is not an option.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Platitudes. Generalizations. Grandiose PR statements. Hopes and dreams.
> 
> I need 120 MW delivered at 10PM on Thursday night. Tell me the plan for building out your favorite renewable to meet that need, at a competitive price. Square up and face the problem and tell us your solution because if you ARE an engineer, you should know better than to try and skate by on platitudes and generalizations. If you ARE a scientist, dear lord let you stay in your lab around only things you might know something about, because so far it isn't the geosciences, economics, physics, statistics or probability, chemical engineering and obviously nothing to do with power generation or distribution.
> 
> Comp Sci is about the only thing I can think of right off the top of my head that would allow you to not know anything about all these items and still claim what you do.
Click to expand...


I see a lot of what you wish was true as it would be convenient to your politics. There is not even a scrap of science by anybody that supports it.

How can any intelligent professional fall for zero scientific evidence in support of trying to stop progress on the most essential project mankind has ever been required to pull off?

I am a mechanical eng but spent most of my life in process control, and project management in service of some of the most complex manufacturing processes the world has seen. 

If you disagree, don't whine about me, show the science. Show me any science that denies AGW as a consequence of putting fossil fuel carbon sequestered in the ground for millions of years back into the atmosphere. 

Show me any engineering that says the we are not past peak oil. 

Show me any source that shows more than 100 years of proven fossil fuel reserves more economical than nuclear. 

Show me a plan as to how we are going to replace all of the energy presently supplied by oil for transportation in less than 100 years with electricity, the only viable option. 

Show me the economics of the world competing for declining supplies of fossil fuels because people like you prevented them from preparing.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> How can any intelligent professional fall for zero scientific evidence in support of trying to stop progress on the most essential project mankind has ever been required to pull off?



Zero scientific evidence? I would volunteer you are not familiar with the evidence, to make such a ridiculous statement.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> I am a mechanical eng but spent most of my life in process control, and project management in service of some of the most complex manufacturing processes the world has seen.



Excellent. Then why in the world would you ignore the obvious requirements of power distribution as they have been laid out by flacaltenn? Why is it when he mentions perfectly valid considerations for how power is made, bought and sold, do you reply by calling him names rather than explaining how your solution provides something as simple as the base load requirements in the US?



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> If you disagree, don't whine about me, show the science. Show me any science that denies AGW as a consequence of putting fossil fuel carbon sequestered in the ground for millions of years back into the atmosphere.



disagree with you about what? You aren't claiming, that I have seen anyway, that you know of any way to generate power requirements with renewables. You certainly aren't familiar with the geologic basics involved with climate change and usually ignored by those who claim "the science is settled" when speaking of it, proving they know as little about science as Matthew.

As far as putting carbon in the ground, in the air, that is exactly what would have happened in due time with natural geologic processes. Are we doing it faster? Sure. Does that automatically correlate to climate change of the kind predicted by, inaccurately, Hansen and his ilk? Well, that would depend on on well the same folks making the prediction understand the natural variation in the system, and to date? They can only prove that they DON'T understand such variation.

Process engineer you say? Finethen you know about the resolution of sensors. Tell me, when the resolution of a given censor is only +/- 1 units, and the full range of the sensor is from 10-20 units, and some dumbass puts a digital readout on this thing, and it spends all day swinging between 4.2 and 4.4 units, what do you do to the new control room technician who wakes you up at night when he suddenly sees the gauge jump to 4.5? OMG!!!! What do we do!! Do you begin plotting the trend thinking it has meaning? Do you rush to the office to investigate? Or do you tell the newby to wake you when it hits either 3, or 5?

Climate works this way to. And folks don't understand it near as well as a process engineer can trust his equipment, sensors and machinery. Climate modelers doing so poorly with their predictions are trying to use 37 seconds of day somewhere within a 24 hour day to model the future. Try it sometime, hell I'll send you the data, and you can apply all the analytic scientificness you want and I'll send you $100 if you can even tell me the time of day I collected the data, and I'll send you $200 if you can predict the high and low from the day using it.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> Show me any engineering that says the we are not past peak oil.



Sure. How about a graph showing the peaks claimed for 2005 and 2008 that weren't peak oil, but as usually were claimed to be, as we made our way to the current high today?








			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> Show me any source that shows more than 100 years of proven fossil fuel reserves more economical than nuclear.



That I can't do, mostly because folks don't predict much of anything out that far, and the cost curve can change to fast with nothing more than government loan guarantees and insurance on nuke generation. Can you explain why you think this even matters? Certainly the fossil fuels themselves, or the uranium supply isn't a concern for the next 100 years.



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> Show me a plan as to how we are going to replace all of the energy presently supplied by oil for transportation in less than 100 years with electricity, the only viable option.



What plan? You want to try and predict the way the market works now? Sure..you come up with someone who can predict the stock market tomorrow, and we'll use that algorithm for the entire species. In the meantime, we have 100 years of liquid fuels, so we don't need to replace it all, certainly those of us already driving EVs know exactly how well they work for us and could care less if the rest of the fools want to contribute to jihadists, and sure, nuke plants would be great for generating the additional electricity I need to fuel my EV besides my local generation capacity.

And a cluethe species isn't going to STOP doing something one afternoon, and do something else, based on some PLAN. 



			
				PMZ said:
			
		

> Show me the economics of the world competing for declining supplies of fossil fuels because people like you prevented them from preparing.



What declining supplies, we are at all time production highs (again), and can stay there for under $150/bbl in 2008 dollars for all of this century. Go sell peak oil pablum to the oil-ignorant.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can any intelligent professional fall for zero scientific evidence in support of trying to stop progress on the most essential project mankind has ever been required to pull off?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero scientific evidence? I would volunteer you are not familiar with the evidence, to make such a ridiculous statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a mechanical eng but spent most of my life in process control, and project management in service of some of the most complex manufacturing processes the world has seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent. Then why in the world would you ignore the obvious requirements of power distribution as they have been laid out by flacaltenn? Why is it when he mentions perfectly valid considerations for how power is made, bought and sold, do you reply by calling him names rather than explaining how your solution provides something as simple as the base load requirements in the US?
> 
> 
> 
> disagree with you about what? You aren't claiming, that I have seen anyway, that you know of any way to generate power requirements with renewables. You certainly aren't familiar with the geologic basics involved with climate change and usually ignored by those who claim "the science is settled" when speaking of it, proving they know as little about science as Matthew.
> 
> As far as putting carbon in the ground, in the air, that is exactly what would have happened in due time with natural geologic processes. Are we doing it faster? Sure. Does that automatically correlate to climate change of the kind predicted by, inaccurately, Hansen and his ilk? Well, that would depend on on well the same folks making the prediction understand the natural variation in the system, and to date? They can only prove that they DON'T understand such variation.
> 
> Process engineer you say? Finethen you know about the resolution of sensors. Tell me, when the resolution of a given censor is only +/- 1 units, and the full range of the sensor is from 10-20 units, and some dumbass puts a digital readout on this thing, and it spends all day swinging between 4.2 and 4.4 units, what do you do to the new control room technician who wakes you up at night when he suddenly sees the gauge jump to 4.5? OMG!!!! What do we do!! Do you begin plotting the trend thinking it has meaning? Do you rush to the office to investigate? Or do you tell the newby to wake you when it hits either 3, or 5?
> 
> Climate works this way to. And folks don't understand it near as well as a process engineer can trust his equipment, sensors and machinery. Climate modelers doing so poorly with their predictions are trying to use 37 seconds of day somewhere within a 24 hour day to model the future. Try it sometime, hell I'll send you the data, and you can apply all the analytic scientificness you want and I'll send you $100 if you can even tell me the time of day I collected the data, and I'll send you $200 if you can predict the high and low from the day using it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. How about a graph showing the peaks claimed for 2005 and 2008 that weren't peak oil, but as usually were claimed to be, as we made our way to the current high today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That I can't do, mostly because folks don't predict much of anything out that far, and the cost curve can change to fast with nothing more than government loan guarantees and insurance on nuke generation. Can you explain why you think this even matters? Certainly the fossil fuels themselves, or the uranium supply isn't a concern for the next 100 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a plan as to how we are going to replace all of the energy presently supplied by oil for transportation in less than 100 years with electricity, the only viable option.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What plan? You want to try and predict the way the market works now? Sure..you come up with someone who can predict the stock market tomorrow, and we'll use that algorithm for the entire species. In the meantime, we have 100 years of liquid fuels, so we don't need to replace it all, certainly those of us already driving EVs know exactly how well they work for us and could care less if the rest of the fools want to contribute to jihadists, and sure, nuke plants would be great for generating the additional electricity I need to fuel my EV besides my local generation capacity.
> 
> And a cluethe species isn't going to STOP doing something one afternoon, and do something else, based on some PLAN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me the economics of the world competing for declining supplies of fossil fuels because people like you prevented them from preparing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What declining supplies, we are at all time production highs (again), and can stay there for under $150/bbl in 2008 dollars for all of this century. Go sell peak oil pablum to the oil-ignorant.
Click to expand...


Do you believe that carbon dioxide and water are the main products of combustion from fossil fuels?


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Do you believe that carbon dioxide and water are the main products of combustion from fossil fuels?



My "beliefs" have nothing to do with the equations involving the combustion of stuff. 

CH4(g) + 2O2(g) &#8594; CO2(g) + 2H2O(g)

My beliefs also have nothing to do with people breathing doing about the same thing. No reason to be specific to just combustion.


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe that carbon dioxide and water are the main products of combustion from fossil fuels?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My "beliefs" have nothing to do with the equations involving the combustion of stuff.
> 
> CH4(g) + 2O2(g) &#8594; CO2(g) + 2H2O(g)
> 
> My beliefs also have nothing to do with people breathing doing about the same thing. No reason to be specific to just combustion.
Click to expand...


Do you believe that co2 is a greenhouse gas? Do you accept the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what makes a gas a greenhouse gas?


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> Do you believe that co2 is a greenhouse gas? Do you accept the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what makes a gas a greenhouse gas?



Again, it doesn't matter what I believe. Of course CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Nearly inconsequential when compared to, say, water vapor, but it doesn't matter what I believe, CO2 is certainly a trace greenhouse gas like CH4 and NO2.

Do you accept that the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what is a greenhouse gas has nothing to do with climate change, and only provides some basis for the folks who model climate change...and fail?


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe that co2 is a greenhouse gas? Do you accept the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what makes a gas a greenhouse gas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it doesn't matter what I believe. Of course CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Nearly inconsequential when compared to, say, water vapor, but it doesn't matter what I believe, CO2 is certainly a trace greenhouse gas like CH4 and NO2.
> 
> Do you accept that the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what is a greenhouse gas has nothing to do with climate change, and only provides some basis for the folks who model climate change...and fail?
Click to expand...



"Do you accept that the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what is a greenhouse gas has nothing to do with climate change, and only provides some basis for the folks who model climate change...and fail?"

You hit the nail right on the head. This is what I've never seen. Here's your opportunity to educate me. 

Post it.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> "Do you accept that the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what is a greenhouse gas has nothing to do with climate change, and only provides some basis for the folks who model climate change...and fail?"
> 
> You hit the nail right on the head. This is what I've never seen. Here's your opportunity to educate me.
> 
> Post it.



While I certainly agree that you need an education, at the very least on the basics of  geosciences, what do you want me to post?

Certainly the things that need answered to make the science on the topic "settled" I CAN'T find, which is the entire point of my beef about climate change modelers.

Here is the climate changing in a heavily studied area. I am looking for the model that uses first order principles to replicate it. If folks have already done this, I haven't seen it. In which case I am ignorant, and am the one needing the education.


----------



## flacaltenn

What PMZ doesnt under RGR is that physics tells us what the CO2 warming SHOULD be for a doubling of conc. From 250 to 500 ppm.  THAT value of warming is about 1.2degC.  But his theory AGW doesnt stop there.  His brain does tho.

Because all the doomy 4 and 8 degC predictions are NOT SIMPLY DUE to man putting some CO2 into the atmos.  ITs due to the AGW Magic Multipliers that say a small trigger event, like the CO2 rise from fossil fuel will cause the Earths climate to commit suicide.

Apparently the majority of rabid warmers dont understand that part their own AGW theory..  PMZ is the worst, because he will never even admit his theory says those things...


----------



## PMZ

RGR said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Do you accept that the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what is a greenhouse gas has nothing to do with climate change, and only provides some basis for the folks who model climate change...and fail?"
> 
> You hit the nail right on the head. This is what I've never seen. Here's your opportunity to educate me.
> 
> Post it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I certainly agree that you need an education, at the very least on the basics of  geosciences, what do you want me to post?
> 
> Certainly the things that need answered to make the science on the topic "settled" I CAN'T find, which is the entire point of my beef about climate change modelers.
> 
> Here is the climate changing in a heavily studied area. I am looking for the model that uses first order principles to replicate it. If folks have already done this, I haven't seen it. In which case I am ignorant, and am the one needing the education.
Click to expand...


It's done in eighth grade science by learning about bodies in space and the conservation of energy, the simple chemistry of the oxidation of hydrocarbons, the quantum mechanics of dipole molecules, and the properties of electromagnetic energy.

Ask any recently educated high schooler on a science track.


----------



## RGR

PMZ said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Do you accept that the laboratory and theoretical explanation of what is a greenhouse gas has nothing to do with climate change, and only provides some basis for the folks who model climate change...and fail?"
> 
> You hit the nail right on the head. This is what I've never seen. Here's your opportunity to educate me.
> 
> Post it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I certainly agree that you need an education, at the very least on the basics of  geosciences, what do you want me to post?
> 
> Certainly the things that need answered to make the science on the topic "settled" I CAN'T find, which is the entire point of my beef about climate change modelers.
> 
> Here is the climate changing in a heavily studied area. I am looking for the model that uses first order principles to replicate it. If folks have already done this, I haven't seen it. In which case I am ignorant, and am the one needing the education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's done in eighth grade science by learning about bodies in space and the conservation of energy, the simple chemistry of the oxidation of hydrocarbons, the quantum mechanics of dipole molecules, and the properties of electromagnetic energy.
> 
> Ask any recently educated high schooler on a science track.
Click to expand...


Sure. That is why the climate modelers can't do it, because it is special knowledge only taught to high schoolers who then don't become climate modelers. Got it.


----------



## Old Rocks

That is Richard Alley's graph. So what does Dr. Alley have to say about CO2?

Richard Alley: "The Biggest Control Knob: Carbon Dioxide in Earth's Climate History" on Vimeo


----------



## RGR

Old Rocks said:


> That is Richard Alley's graph. So what does Dr. Alley have to say about CO2?
> 
> Richard Alley: "The Biggest Control Knob: Carbon Dioxide in Earth's Climate History" on Vimeo



Do you have any videos showing how Richard Alley demonstrates his model matching those temperatures, thereby establishing that someone, at the very least, accounts for the variability in the system? Or does he not participate in the "gee I don't understand why temperature hasn't increased recently either" games?

Or is he just a fan of a particular trace greenhouse gas, versus real heavy hitters like water vapor and methane?


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Renewable Energy Is Now The Source Of 40 Percent Of Scotlands Electricity*



> In 2012, Scotland got 40.3 percent of its electricity from renewable sources  up from 36.3 percent in 2011 and just 24.1 percent in 2010. The Scottish government plans to get half of its electricity from renewable energy by 2015  a target it said it was on track to meet  and 100 percent of its electricity by 2020. Scotlands renewable energy numbers are much higher than many other U.K. countries  renewables produced only 8.2 percent of Englands electricity in 2012, and in Wales, 8.7 percent of electricity comes from renewable sources.
> 
> Renewable electricity in Scotland is going from strength to strength, confirming that 2012 was a record year for generation in Scotland and that 2013 looks set to be even better, said Scotlands energy minister Fergus Ewing.
> 
> Lang Banks, Director of WWF Scotland, told the BBC that if Scotland is to meet its target of renewable energy generating 100 percent of electricity by 2020, the country will need to invest more in offshore wind.



Renewable Energy Is Now The Source Of 40 Percent Of Scotland's Electricity | ThinkProgress


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> *Renewable Energy Is Now The Source Of 40 Percent Of Scotlands Electricity*l]



Scotland raising power prices in 2011.

BBC News - Scottish Power raises gas and electricity prices

Scotland raising power prices in 212.

Scottish Power raises gas and electricity prices | Money | theguardian.com

Scotland raising power prices in 2013.

BBC News - Scottish Power to raise prices by 8.6% from 6 December

So looks like Scotland has decided that energy poverty is the way to go for their people?

https://www.orcadian.co.uk/2013/10/...e-hike-will-see-more-slide-into-fuel-poverty/

So whatever happened to the idea of this kind of power being comparable to fossil fuel fired power? My electric and gas bills aren't going up 10% per year for years in a row? Matter of fact, mine have been pretty stable, and pretty inexpensive for about half a decade, corresponding roughly with the onslaught of cheap and abundant fracked shale natural gas? If renewables are designed to just make sure some big chunk of the population is dependent on government handouts to pay their electric bills, it sounds like a success! Go Scotland! While you are taking money out of your pocket and paying ever increasing electrical rates, Americans will be using abundant natural gas to drop CO2 emissions by substituting for coal, pass along the lower costs to American citizens in the form of cheaper home heating and electrical power, lure businesses and manufacturing back to the States to create jobs, grow the economy, etc etc.

Cheap Natural Gas Pumping New Life Into U.S. Factories : NPR

Someone tell me who sold renewables to Scotland on the basis of it being an improvement for those poor, unfortunate folks?


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> *Renewable Energy Is Now The Source Of 40 Percent Of Scotlands Electricity*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2012, Scotland got 40.3 percent of its electricity from renewable sources  up from 36.3 percent in 2011 and just 24.1 percent in 2010.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Renewable Energy Is Now The Source Of 40 Percent Of Scotland's Electricity | ThinkProgress
Click to expand...


ThinkProgress eh?? Not very deep analysis..  The amount of money flowing out of govt coffers to subsidize this circus is causing the GOVERNMENT OF SCOTLAND to be an unreliable a source of information. Especially when the fluffheads at ThinkProgress are taking their word verbatim.. 

I TRIED to get a better handle on this "claim"..  But Govt hasnt published a new statement listing the breakdown of this renewable record. First piece of evidence that the numbers are rigged is ... 



                        National Average                     ScottishPower
coal                         34.8%                                    59%
gas                          27.7%                                    26%
nuclear                    20.6%                                    1.3%
renewables              11.3%                                    12.9%
other                        2%                                        1.2%

Something stinks.. Now ScottishPower serves the broader UK market. So maybe the 
National Average is not just Scotland. 

But even the Scotland gov figures are telling a story.. 


> Energy - Electricity Generation
> 
> In 2012, Scotland generated a total of 49,498 GWh of electricity, a decrease of 3.4% on 2011. The main source of electricity generation in 2012 was nuclear power, accounting for 34% of the electricity generated. Output from nuclear power was particularly low in 2006 and 2007 due to unplanned condition related outages. *Coal accounted for 25.0% of the total electricity generation in Scotland in 2012 - up from 21.1% in 2011*.
> 
> Renewable sources accounted for 29.8% of electricity generated in 2012, an increase of 7.3% in the amount of electricity generated by renewables since 2011. The share of electricity generated from non-Hydro renewable sources (wind, wave, tidal, solar power and thermal renewables) has consistently increased every year from 0.6% in 2000 to 20.0% in 2012.



1) Why has COAL INCREASED DRAMATICALLY --- if "renewables" are on such a tear? 
Because renewables CANNOT INCREASE peak generation capacity.. Simply cant.

2) Hydro was a 1/3 of the renewable miracle.. And it comes at continuing cost as Scotland dams every river and stream available to acheive it's goal. SIGNIFICANT amounts of environmentally disasterous hydro have been added since 2000. Doing damage to the CO2 sequestration of the land they sink under water and becoming a significant source of CO2 emissions for years after starting operation.

3) These clowns are counting "pumped hydro" as a GENERATOR. This is bookkeeping fraud because it double counts the energy required to PUMP the water and should be a NEGATIVE generator of electric power. 

4) Another LARGE and Growing "renewable" in Scotland is the burning of garbage and calling it "green and clean".. They are burning animal waste, chicken droppings, and literally garbage and SOMEHOW --- that's cleaner than coal. Ask the folks of UK how they feel about being DUPED into believing that "biomass conversion" was a clean alternative.

All of this phoney accounting for renewables and the lack of mention of how much in subsidies it's costing would be bad enough.. ((RGR covered the price issue nicely)) But the very statistic of how much wind generates on a yearly average is a distraction for the ThinkProgress crowd -- who could never comprehend that you CANT close old fossil plants EVEN IF wind produces 25% of your annual power. Because there are days when wind generates NOTHING. And even more days where it's SOOOO SPORADIC that the coal plants HAVE TO OPERATE to back up wind --- even if the power gets dumped to ground. A cost that never entered the "thinking process" of dupes like ThinkProgress.. 



> BBC News - Ofgem warns danger of power shortages has increased
> 
> The danger of power shortages in the UK by the middle of the decade has risen, according to industry regulator Ofgem. Spare electricity power production capacity could fall to 2% by 2015, increasing the risk of blackouts.
> 
> More investment in power generation and other action is needed to protect consumers, Ofgem said. "Ofgem's analysis indicates a faster than anticipated tightening of electricity margins toward the middle of this decade," it said in a report.
> 
> Andrew Wright, the regulator's chief executive, said: "Britain's energy industry is facing an unprecedented challenge to secure supplies."
> 
> The global financial crisis, tough emissions targets, the UK's increasing dependency on gas imports, and the closure of ageing power stations were all contributing to the heightened risk of shortages, Ofgem said.



Most american grids operate on MINIMUMS of 12% margins. If you're projecting 2% margins --- people are gonna die...


----------



## flacaltenn

There is no Environmental support for this push to "renewables".. The Govts will sink forests and meadows underwater for hydro, kill off raptors in wide denials of habitat with wind, and even MORE importantly --- kill human beings with pollution JUST AS BAD AS COAL with "biomass".. 

*Ask the TRUE enviros in Scotland how they feel about having MORE of their energy budget generated by burning dead animal guts and trees imported from Finland.. FIND ONE SCOT Enviro group that wants MORE of this madness so that the politicians can "reach their goals"....  *



> Crunch time for big biomass in Scotland | Bright Green
> 
> With these proposed changes looking certain to be approved and support for big biomass already in existence, it&#8217;s no surprise that energy companies are rushing to get in on it. In Scotland, Forth Energy have three applications for 100MWe biomass power stations at Grangemouth, Dundee and Rosyth, and withdrew a hotly-contested application in Leith. The new ROCs would make Forth Energy eligible for some £220 million a year in subsidies, or a whopping £5.5 billion over the 25 year life span of the plants.
> 
> Unsurprisingly, this funding will be sucked out of the consumer and paid for by people&#8217;s energy bills, where most of the energy used is from non-renewable generation &#8211; which is most of Scotland. A move which, incidentally, coincides with rising fuel poverty and at a time when energy companies are making record profits and communities are spending record amounts of their meagre incomes on energy bills.
> 
> So what would these new power stations mean, other than increased energy bills for those who can least afford it? *Firstly, biomass power stations are as polluting as coal power stations (emitting more of some pollutants and less of others). This means that they have many of the same negative impacts on air quality and community health. For places like Grangemouth where communities already live close to the UK&#8217;s second biggest coal power station and a petrochemical works/oil refinery, further increases in air pollution only make these impacts worse.*
> 
> While the withdrawal of the Leith biomass application was a substantial victory, the fate of the remaining three applications is much less certain. The result of a Public Inquiry over the plant at Grangemouth is overdue and expected any time. Almost 1,000 people in Grangemouth signed a petition against the application and Grangemouth Community Council co-ordinated strong evidence being heard against it at the Public Inquiry.
> 
> x
> x
> x
> x
> 
> 
> *These statistics quickly turn a supposedly clean and green alternative to fossil-fuels into a climate disaster.
> 
> Friends of the Earth Scotland are currently running an e-campaign, asking people to write to their MSP to get them to tell Fergus Ewing (Energy Minister) to put a stop to Forth Energy&#8217;s devastating biomass plans.* You can find this here.




The ministry of Scotland have created an enviro monster.. And it's called "BIG RENEWABLES".. Dedicated to the proposition that we will RAPE the environment and bankrupt the citizenry and leave them cold and dark --- as long as we reach our goals..


----------



## ScienceRocks

Burn baby burn


----------



## ScienceRocks

*As gas prices rise, U.S. utilities to burn more coal*




> Dec 12 (Reuters) - A recent rise in U.S. natural gas prices is set to further dent demand for gas as utilities are expected to use more coal to generate power, energy traders said on Thursday.
> 
> The relative price difference between NYMEX Central Appalachian coal and NYMEX Henry Hub gas has widened to more than $2 per million British thermal units for the first time since early July 2010, according to Reuters data.
> 
> Since the beginning of December, NYMEX gas has climbed almost 12 percent to $4.434 per mmBtu early Thursday, the highest since early May.
> 
> Traders said gas prices are climbing on forecasts for cold weather over the next week or two, which is expected to boost heating demand.
> 
> NYMEX Central Appalachian coal meanwhile has gained 5 percent since the start of December to $57.25 per ton, or $2.39 per mmBtu.
> 
> The traders said coal was the cheaper fuel even though gas plants are about 25 percent more efficient than coal plants, and despite an estimated $1 per mmBtu cost to transport coal by rail from the mine to the plant.
> 
> In 2012, the price of gas, which has historically been more expensive than coal, dropped to a more than 10-year low due primarily to record shale gas production.
> 
> Even though that record shale gas production is continuing, traders noted power companies have used more coal in 2013 than in 2012 because gas has been more expensive this year.
> 
> The U.S. Energy Information Administration in December forecast that coal used for power generation will rise to 39.3 percent in 2013 and 39.9 percent in 2014, from 37.4 percent in 2012.
> 
> With the forecast rise in gas prices, natural gas used for power generation is expected to decline to 27.5 percent in 2013 and 27.2 percent in 2014, from 30.3 percent in 2012, EIA said.



As gas prices rise, U.S. utilities to burn more coal | Reuters

Ouch for the fight to reduce carbon emissions...


----------



## flacaltenn

Matthew said:


> *As gas prices rise, U.S. utilities to burn more coal*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dec 12 (Reuters) - A recent rise in U.S. natural gas prices is set to further dent demand for gas as utilities are expected to use more coal to generate power, energy traders said on Thursday.
> 
> The relative price difference between NYMEX Central Appalachian coal and NYMEX Henry Hub gas has widened to more than $2 per million British thermal units for the first time since early July 2010, according to Reuters data.
> 
> Since the beginning of December, NYMEX gas has climbed almost 12 percent to $4.434 per mmBtu early Thursday, the highest since early May.
> 
> Traders said gas prices are climbing on forecasts for cold weather over the next week or two, which is expected to boost heating demand.
> 
> NYMEX Central Appalachian coal meanwhile has gained 5 percent since the start of December to $57.25 per ton, or $2.39 per mmBtu.
> 
> The traders said coal was the cheaper fuel even though gas plants are about 25 percent more efficient than coal plants, and despite an estimated $1 per mmBtu cost to transport coal by rail from the mine to the plant.
> 
> In 2012, the price of gas, which has historically been more expensive than coal, dropped to a more than 10-year low due primarily to record shale gas production.
> 
> Even though that record shale gas production is continuing, traders noted power companies have used more coal in 2013 than in 2012 because gas has been more expensive this year.
> 
> The U.S. Energy Information Administration in December forecast that coal used for power generation will rise to 39.3 percent in 2013 and 39.9 percent in 2014, from 37.4 percent in 2012.
> 
> With the forecast rise in gas prices, natural gas used for power generation is expected to decline to 27.5 percent in 2013 and 27.2 percent in 2014, from 30.3 percent in 2012, EIA said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As gas prices rise, U.S. utilities to burn more coal | Reuters
> 
> Ouch for the fight to reduce carbon emissions...
Click to expand...


It's a temporary increase in price.. Largely due to delivery bottlenecks and seasonal demands. If you'd get the global warming to stop the snow and ice --- things would clear up.. OR if you weren't standing in the way of new pipeline construction..


----------



## ScienceRocks

*UK power squeeze avoided as tougher coal rules rejected*



> (Reuters) - MPs rejected an amendment on Wednesday that would have forced tougher rules on old coal-fired power plants, sparing the energy market from an even tighter squeeze as ageing nuclear plants shut later this decade.
> 
> The amendment would have extended the so-called emissions performance standard (EPS) to cover old and inefficient coal plants, as well as new ones, unless they were fitted with costly carbon capture and storage technology.
> 
> It will now go back to the House of Lords to be discussed again and possibly reworked.
> 
> Supporters say the move would have delivered rapid and cheap carbon emissions reductions.



UK power squeeze avoided as tougher coal rules rejected | Reuters


----------



## ScienceRocks

*New coal-fired generation to top 112 GW globally*



> In 2014, about 112 GW of new coal-fired generating capacity will begin operations with most of the investments happening in Asia, according to a report from the McIlvaine Co.
> 
> The report, &#8220;Fossil & Nuclear Power Generation: World Analysis & Forecast,&#8221; also says countries under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) will build 500 MW of new coal-fired generation. In total, 112,099 MW of new capacity is expected to come online next year. East Asia has the most with 60,774 MW; followed by West Asia with 41,335. Africa will bring online 4,100 MW of coal, followed by Western Europe, South & Central America and Eastern Europe.
> 
> The report says almost all of the power plants, with the exception of a few in West Asia and the former Soviet Union will also add sulfur dioxide control equipment. All of the Chinese power plants will also have NOx controls, and European plants are being modified to co-fire with biomass.



New coal-fired generation to top 112 GW globally - Power Engineering


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Lawrenceville Plasma Physics Latest Update and Plans to Demonstrate Net Gain Nuclear Fusion in 2014 and a commercial reactor in 2018*



> Eric Lerner presented at the 2013 Fusion Energy Symposium.
> 
> What Has Lawrenceville Plasma Physics (LPP) achieved so far ?
> 
> * Ion temperature&#8212;goal achieved&#8212;over 1.8 billion degrees, enough to ignite pB11
> * &#8239;Confinement time&#8212;goal achieved 20 ns&#8212;more than 8 ns goal
> * &#8239;Energy transfer to plasmoid&#8212;over 50% of goal
> * Density&#8212;must increase by 10,000
> 
> Steps To Increase Density
> * &#8239;50x-- Achieve theoretical density&#8212;tungsten electrodes to eliminate impurity
> * &#8239;10x-- Increase current to 2.8 MA
> * 20x-- Better compression with heavier pB11
> 
> A committee of researchers was led by Dr. Robert Hirsch, a former director of fusion research for the US Atomic Energy Commission and the Energy Research and Development Agency gave a positive assessment of LPP, their research and recommended funding. Other members of the committee were Dr. Stephen O. Dean, President of Fusion Power Associates and former director of fusion Magnetic Confinement Systems for the Department of Energy; Professor Gerald L. Kulcinski, Associate Dean for Research, College of Engineering, University of Wisconsin-Madison; and Professor Dennis Papadopoulos, Professor of Physics, University of Maryland. The committee was organized by Dr. Hirsch at the request of Mr. Alvin Samuels, an investor in LPP&#8217;s effort, to give an objective assessment of the program. Neither Mr. Samuels nor LPP had any control over the committee&#8217;s conclusions.



Lawrenceville Plasma Physics Latest Update and Plans to Demonstrate Net Gain Nuclear Fusion in 2014 and a commercial reactor in 2018


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Perovskite solar cells become even more promising with cheaper materials*

(





> Phys.org) &#8212;Due to their rapid improvements in a short amount of time, perovskite solar cells have become one of today's most promising up-and-coming photovoltaic technologies. Currently, the record efficiency for a perovskite solar cell is 15% and expected to improve further. Although the perovskite material itself is relatively inexpensive, the best devices commonly use an expensive organic hole-conducting polymer, called spiro-OMeTAD, which has a commercial price that is more than 10 times that of gold and platinum.
> 
> In a new study, Jeffrey A. Christians, Raymond C. M. Fung, and Prashant V. Kamat from the University of Notre Dame in Indiana have found that copper iodide, an inexpensive inorganic hole-conducting material, may serve as a possible alternative to spiro-OMeTAD. Although the efficiency of perovskite solar cells containing copper iodide measured in this study is not quite as high as those containing spiro-OMeTAD, the copper iodide devices exhibit some other advantages that, overall, suggest that they could lead to the development of inexpensive, high-efficiency perovskite solar cells.



Perovskite solar cells become even more promising with cheaper materials


----------



## ScienceRocks

*More rooftop solar was added in California in 2013 than in the past 30 years combined!*


> From 1 gigawatt to 2 gigawatts in a single year
> It took the residents of California about 30 years to reach 1,000MW of rooftop solar. And during 2013, that number doubled to just over 2,000MW. The previous record for rooftop solar was in 2012 with 500MW. Let that sink in: In a single year, as much rooftop solar was installed as during the previous 30 combined. If that's not a good sign for clean energy, I don't know what is.
> 
> While California is the leader for solar power in the US, other states are also doing well. Bloomberg recently reported: "About 200,000 U.S. homes and businesses added rooftop solar in the past two years alone &#8211; about 3 gigawatts of power and enough to replace four or five conventionally-sized coal plants."



More rooftop solar was added in California in 2013 than in the past 30 years combined! : TreeHugger


----------



## ScienceRocks

*US New Solar PV Installations Reach Record 4.2 GW*





> NPD Solarbuzz have released their first news of the new year, unexpectedly looking back at the year just gone. According to the NPD analysts, the new solar photovoltaic (PV) installations in the United States throughout 2013 reached a record 4.2 GW.
> 
> This figure is a 15% growth on 2012 figures, and places the country as the leading solar market outside of the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> The news comes courtesy of the company&#8217;s latest North America PV Markets Quarterly report, which not only looked back at the year in total, but is the first report to look back at last quarter of 2013.
> 
> Fourth quarter installations for 2013 also reached a new record, hitting 1.4 GW.
> 
> &#8220;Each year, the final quarter in the U.S. results in a new quarterly record for solar PV installed,&#8221; saidMichael Barker, senior analyst at NPD Solarbuzz. &#8220;The solar PV industry in the U.S. is, on average, now installing more than one gigawatt of solar PV each quarter.&#8221;
> 
> 
> 
> The news comes as no real surprise given the way things had been looking throughout much of 2013 for the US solar industry. Large-scale projects had dominated the scene all through the year, ending up accounting for over 80% of new solar capacity deployed for the yer.
> 
> Happily, the small-scale solar segment &#8212; comprising primarily of residential and small non-residential rooftop installations &#8212; accounted for approximately 700 MW in 2013, an increase of 10% compared to the previous year&#8217;s tally.
> 
> And, completely unsurprisingly, California lead the way for US states in terms of total installed solar PV, but saw hot contention from North Carolina which rocketed up 3 spots thanks to strong utility-scale activity. Texas jumped four spots overall to come in 5th, while New Mexico and New York were new entrants to the top ten, displacing Maryland and Colorado



US New Solar PV Installations Reach Record 4.2 GW | CleanTechnica


----------



## RGR

Matthew said:


> *US New Solar PV Installations Reach Record 4.2 GW*



Excellent! I want to fuel my EV this evening...say 6PM. Can ANY of those GW's do that? I only need a few kWh, surely out of all those GW there are some that can give me a little juice when I plug in my car? This evening?


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Report: solar PV demand to grow 36% in 2014*

Solar Industry News | January 7, 2014 by Brian | 0 Comments 



> Global demand for solar PV is set to reach 49 GW this year, up from 36 GW in 2013, with almost half coming from the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> The prediction comes from research firm NPD Solarbuzz&#8217; latest quarterly report, which finds that the last quarter of 2013 and first quarter of 2014 will be record breaking periods.
> 
> &#8220;The solar PV industry has reached a critical tipping point, with end-market demand hitting record levels almost every quarter,&#8221; said Finlay Colville, vice-president at NPD Solarbuzz.
> 
> &#8220;This growth is being driven by leading module suppliers and project developers that returned to profitability during 2013, and which have now established highly-effective global sales and marketing networks.&#8221;
> 
> From October 2013 to March 2014, almost 22 GW of solar photovoltaics will be installed worldwide. That month period will have more installations than 2005 to 2009 put together, and equivalent to one new 5 MW solar farm completed every hour for six months.



Report: solar PV demand to grow 36% in 2014 - Solar Tribune


----------



## mamooth

Tesla has completed a cross-USA supercharger network, in addition to covering the east and west coasts. That means at least one supercharger station (30 minute charges) every 200 miles. 

By the way, a Tesla has a bigass battery and can go 200 miles in the winter, but lesser electrics like the Leaf can't. Subzero temps will knock 40% off the battery range. It's one of the issues EV's have to work on.

Superchargers


----------



## ScienceRocks

*China&#8217;s Solar Market Beat All Expectations For 2013*
China's Solar Market Beat All Expectations For 2013 | CleanTechnica




> Despite predictions all through 2013 suggesting that Japan would walk away the dominant solar PV market, Bloomberg New Energy Finance has revealed that China &#8220;outstripped even the most optimistic forecasts&#8221; to install a record 12 GW of photovoltaic projects in 2013.
> 
> In fact, a massive boom at the end of the year could even have pushed the nation&#8217;s market up to 14 GW, a phenomenal feat considering that no country has ever added more than 8 GW in a year.
> 
> Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) had predicted that Japan would come out on top in 2013, ahead of China and then the US, but with a feed-in tariff for large PV projects ending on the first of 2014, the year-end rush will not be wholly understood until March.
> 
> &#8220;The 2013 figures show the astonishing scale of the Chinese market, now the sleeping dragon has awoken&#8221; said Jenny Chase, head of solar analysis at Bloomberg New Energy Finance. &#8220;PV is becoming ever cheaper and simpler to install, and China&#8217;s government has been as surprised as European governments by how quickly it can be deployed in response to incentives.&#8221;



So much for solar being a liberal tree hugger energy source. LOL I really don't believe hating it because it is liberal is going to stop it.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*India Nearly Doubled Its Solar Power Capacity In 2013*




> India added just over 1 gigawatt of solar energy to its electrical grid last year, a major milestone that nearly doubles the country&#8217;s cumulative solar energy capacity to 2.18 gigawatts. After a slow start to the year, solar installation picked up rapidly &#8212; a good sign that India will be able to meet its ambitious solar targets going forward. India hopes to install 10 GW of solar by 2017 and 20 GW by 2022.
> 
> The Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission, launched in 2010 by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, aims to help the country achieve success with solar energy deployment. India is currently in the planning stages of building the world&#8217;s largest solar plant, which would generate 4 gigawatts in the northwestern state of Rajasthan.




India Nearly Doubled Its Solar Power Capacity In 2013 | CleanTechnica


----------



## mamooth

Largest-ever wind turbine prototype now generating.

Giant Vestas wind turbine swings into gear - 28 Jan 2014 - News from BusinessGreen

The Vestas V164-8.0 MW is about 220 meters from base to full upright blade tip, though exact height varies a little, based on the site. Blade diameter is 164 meters, and capacity is 8 megawatts. It's designed for the high-wind conditions of the North Sea offshore sites.


----------



## Old Rocks

RGR said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US New Solar PV Installations Reach Record 4.2 GW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent! I want to fuel my EV this evening...say 6PM. Can ANY of those GW's do that? I only need a few kWh, surely out of all those GW there are some that can give me a little juice when I plug in my car? This evening?
Click to expand...


Hmmmmmmmmm.............  Really? You have never heard of grid parrallel? You put juice in during the day, and draw from the grid at night. Perhaps too complicated to understand?


----------



## RGR

Old Rocks said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US New Solar PV Installations Reach Record 4.2 GW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent! I want to fuel my EV this evening...say 6PM. Can ANY of those GW's do that? I only need a few kWh, surely out of all those GW there are some that can give me a little juice when I plug in my car? This evening?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmm.............  Really? You have never heard of grid parrallel? You put juice in during the day, and draw from the grid at night. Perhaps too complicated to understand?
Click to expand...


I do this all the time. The problem being, during the evening I can only get some wind power. The PV stuff doesn't work so good at night in my neck of the woods.

But it is nice that most renewables can do stuff intermittently.now if we can just get folks to only watch TV or charge their cars when the sun is shining, or the wind blowing. Those near a coast might be luckier, the tides are always doing their thing.


----------



## ScienceRocks

*Viewpoint: Encouraging Signs on the Path to Fusion*

Physics - Encouraging Signs on the Path to Fusion


Steven J. Rose, Blackett Laboratory, Department of Physics, Imperial College London, London SW7 2AZ, United Kingdom 

Published February 5, 2014  |  Physics 7, 13 (2014)  |  DOI: 10.1103/Physics.7.13 

By adopting a new strategy toward laser fusion, researchers at the National Ignition Facility have produced the highest energy output to date.



> For four years, researchers at the National Ignition Facility (NIF) have worked toward an ambitious goal: using powerful lasers to ignite fusion in a tiny target of nuclear fuel. If the fusion reaction releases more energy than the lasers provide&#8212;corresponding to a &#8220;gain&#8221; of greater than 1&#8212;NIF could have the makings of a new energy source. But so far, NIF hasn&#8217;t been able to pass this gain threshold. And because experiments haven&#8217;t matched up with the predictions of simulations, it has been difficult to figure out what to change. Now, researchers (Park et al.) at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, California, where NIF is located, report in Physical Review Letters the first laser ignition experiment that appears to be behaving according to the predictions of current models [1]. The researchers used a different laser pulse shape to heat the target, producing the highest yield of neutrons&#8212;and therefore the largest energy output&#8212;seen to date. Their result is a major achievement because it gives hope NIF will ultimately find a path to achieving gain greater than 1.


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## RGR

Matthew said:


> By adopting a new strategy toward laser fusion, researchers at the National Ignition Facility have produced the highest energy output to date.



And I can use wonderful new laser fusion energy to charge up my car....when...exactly? And I didn't see a mention of the cost curve...gee....I wonder why? 

As we all know, for anything to work it has to actually WORK in the real world (versus, say, a lab) and its cost curve must be superior to things that DO work...natural gas, coal, heating fuel, propane, nukes utilizing fission, PV and wind, etc etc.

Why is it these grand proclamations are always talking about things that don't work yet, and no one can provide a cost curve for? Huh....maybe next pimped item will contain the parts that MATTER?


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## RGR

Come on Matthew....give us some more!


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## ScienceRocks

Most advancing comes this way. You republicans are just retarded.

Research takes money
Being number one in science takes money
Investment is the only choice if America wants to lead.


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## Old Rocks

RGR said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> RGR said:
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> Excellent! I want to fuel my EV this evening...say 6PM. Can ANY of those GW's do that? I only need a few kWh, surely out of all those GW there are some that can give me a little juice when I plug in my car? This evening?
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> Hmmmmmmmmm.............  Really? You have never heard of grid parrallel? You put juice in during the day, and draw from the grid at night. Perhaps too complicated to understand?
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> Click to expand...
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> I do this all the time. The problem being, during the evening I can only get some wind power. The PV stuff doesn't work so good at night in my neck of the woods.
> 
> But it is nice that most renewables can do stuff intermittently.now if we can just get folks to only watch TV or charge their cars when the sun is shining, or the wind blowing. Those near a coast might be luckier, the tides are always doing their thing.
Click to expand...


Net Metering | SEIA

Net Metering
Net metering allows residential and commercial customers who generate their own electricity from solar power to feed electricity they do not use back into the grid. Many states have passed net metering laws. In other states, utilities may offer net metering programs voluntarily or as a result of regulatory decisions. Differences between states' legislation and implementation mean that the benefits of net metering can vary widely for solar customers in different areas of the country.
What Is Net Metering?

Net metering is a billing mechanism that credits solar energy system owners for the electricity they add to the grid. For example, if a residential customer has a PV system on the home's rooftop, it may generate more electricity than the home uses during daylight hours. If the home is net-metered, the electricity meter will run backwards to provide a credit against what electricity is consumed at night or other periods where the home's electricity use exceeds the system's output. Customers are only billed for their "net" energy use. On average, only 20-40% of a solar energy systems output ever goes into the grid. Exported solar electricity serves nearby customers loads.


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## RGR

Matthew said:


> Most advancing comes this way. You republicans are just retarded.
> 
> Research takes money
> Being number one in science takes money
> Investment is the only choice if America wants to lead.



I know how advancing comes, and that wasn't my comment. If I draw you cost/supply/demand curves in crayon, will you understand then?

And I'm a registered independent thank you very much. Have a difficult time choosing between Democans and Republicrats, so I vote for the person rather than the party.


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## ScienceRocks

*We&#8217;re One Step Closer to Nuclear Fusion Energy*



> Scientists with the National Ignition Facility (NIF) at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announced today that they have achieved a critical step in fusion research: For the first time, their hydrogen fuel has given off more energy than it took in.
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> Though an important milestone, the result does not mean that your Delorean is soon going to sport a Mr. Fusion reactor. NIF would need to sustain temperatures and pressures much greater than they are currently capable of before they can harness fusion energy.
> 
> Nuclear fusion is the energy source of the stars. Deep in our sun&#8217;s belly, hydrogen atoms slam into one another at high speed, getting mashed together to form helium atoms and releasing copious amounts of energy. Creating viable fusion energy here on Earth has been a dream since the dawn of the Atomic Age. With true fusion power, the amount of water you use in a single shower could provide all your energy needs for a year. But for six decades, fusion has remained a far-off dream.
> 
> Because of this convoluted process, only 1/200th of the energy that the lasers generate is imparted to the hydrogen fuel, compressing it enough to produce a small amount of fusion. *Until now, the energy given off by the fusing hydrogen hasn&#8217;t been enough to set off a chain reaction. The hydrogen fuel also always consumed more energy than it put out. But during experiments late last year, NIF researchers were finally able to get the hydrogen to give off as much as 1.7 times more energy than it had taken in, a result that appears today in Nature. In subsequent experiments last month, the team was able to produce as much as 2.6 times more energy than was put into the hydrogen fuel.*
> 
> &#8220;The physics is a breakthrough,&#8221; said physicist Riccardo Betti of the University of Rochester, who was not involved in the work. &#8220;If fusion will ever become a viable source of energy, we may look back and say that in 2013, for the first time, a plasma produced more energy out than it took in.&#8221;




We're One Step Closer to Nuclear Fusion Energy - Wired Science

The one true way to energy independence! The first big victory to that road!


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