# Liberal antisemitism etc in Quebec



## novasteve (Mar 16, 2014)

Typical lefty, the "kosher tax" and all the other nonsense liberal antisemites learned from the nazis.

Marois defends PQ candidate accused of spouting anti-Semitic myths - Winnipeg Free Press


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## LonBabby (Mar 16, 2014)

If liberals are antisemites, why do so many Jews vote liberal?


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## Delta4Embassy (Mar 17, 2014)

novasteve said:


> Typical lefty, the "kosher tax" and all the other nonsense liberal antisemites learned from the nazis.
> 
> Marois defends PQ candidate accused of spouting anti-Semitic myths - Winnipeg Free Press



Not sure equating Canadian political parties with American ones as to liberal/conservative is accurate or fair. So trying to equate a Candian party with American liberals probably doesn't make sense.


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## Daktoria (Mar 18, 2014)

Actually, if you know anything about Quebecer politics, you know they're multicultural Catholics who oppose the Blue Tory neoconservative tradition in Canada.

These aren't Nazis.  They're inquisitors, and they have nothing in common with Nazis who adhered to Protestant Values from the Protestant Reich Church.

The idea is to oppose big business, free trade, and social alienation of native French-Canadians.  The Bloc Quebecois is a conservative movement for the sake of self-determination.

Likewise, if you know anything about liberalism in Quebec, you know it can't stand on its own two legs because it's built around welfare state economics that ignore social values.


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## MHunterB (Mar 19, 2014)

The 'kosher tax' meme emanates directly from the likes of 'Creativity Alliance' and 'Christian Identity':  it's no secret that it's ant-Jewish hate speech and has zero factual basis.

Regardless of the 'craziness' of politics, there's no excuse nor apology for such blatant bigotry to be tolerated by ANY responsible individuals nor groups.  While it's nice to understand the 'hook' (anti-big-business?) upon which this bit o' filth has been hung - there just IS no excusing the bit o' filth NOR the total irresponsibility of the 'politician' using it.  If nothing else, the pol has fucktards for fact-checkers on his staff.

And NO! - the inclusion of similar disgusting charges against Islamic clerics and 'halal' certification is really no different.  Nor does it excuse the bigotry.

What this actually appears to be, is an 'anti-religion' rant by some idiot left-winger (probably a 'moderate in Canuckistanian terms).  It's as though the self-proclaimed "progressive" is a 'True Believer' of the party line which is anti-whatever is perceived to be 'in power' that doesn't kiss 'party line' ass....  to be consistent, they should also be screaming about First Nations' spiritual expressions as well.

This isn't primarily about sincere heart-felt (though bigoted!) beliefs - but about one more pol's cynical attempts to manipulate what they view as their constituency.  

It does NOT, however, excuse the usage of such vile hate speech to inflame some and seek to intimidate others.  Those who DO espouse belief in such hateful memes have committed murder for that 'cause' (look up 'Matthew Hale') - and more than once - so the 'message' is toxic.


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## Daktoria (Mar 20, 2014)

Right... because there's nothing "bigoted" about a group proclaiming oneself to be the "chosen people" as if everyone in society doesn't universally deserve to be treated with respect based on who they are on the inside that counts.  Instead, the chosen people are entitled to judge how everyone ought to live their lives.

Uh huh.  Maybe Quebec's Catholics have a reason to inquire against Jewish culture.

Oh by the way, Jews are liberal:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/02/jewish-americans-vote-democratic

Maybe Quebecers do what they do because they don't want Quebec to follow in America's footsteps like the rest of Blue Tory neocon Canada has?


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## MrMax (Mar 23, 2014)

Daktoria said:


> Actually, if you know anything about Quebecer politics, you know they're multicultural Catholics who oppose the Blue Tory neoconservative tradition in Canada.
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> These aren't Nazis.  They're inquisitors, and they have nothing in common with Nazis who adhered to Protestant Values from the Protestant Reich Church.
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Multicultural Catholics in Quebec? Uh... no. Quebec is only multicultural on the island of Montreal, and is trying to pass a secularism charter to get rid of hijabs... in the public service. As for being Catholic, less and less since the Quiet Revolution in the 1960s. Pretty much nobody goes to church anymore in Quebec.


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## MrMax (Mar 23, 2014)

Daktoria said:


> I've discussed the craziness of Quebec politics here by the way:
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> Quebec, Feminism, and Multiculturalism - Discussion World Forum[/url]



Stompin' Tom Connors said it best: "Let's all separate together!"


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## Daktoria (Mar 23, 2014)

MrMax said:


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You're talking about the Quebecois liberals.

The problem is Quebec is realizing how problematic liberalism is.  If Quebec was to realize independence, it wouldn't be able to support itself.  Liberalism doesn't encourage productive attitudes.  It encourages people to be charming, charismatic, clever, witty yes-man suck-ups who deliberately screw around in playing language games, and outcast others as being impractical according to their emotional relationships.  Those who are outcast are expected to be enslaved, and those who refuse to endure slavery are abused and neglected.  

The problem is this doesn't work when people aren't willing to endure slavery anyway.  It also discourages production since productive people will be regulated.

Therefore, multicultural Catholicism is the answer in order to rally people together in a productive way instead of simply leeching off the system.  People are universally respected for who they are on the inside that counts, and they're allowed to behave diversely as long as they don't judge each other by interfering in each other's lives without consent.

The problem is Judaism takes this one step too far in basically treating people as if they're guilty before proven innocent.  It denies the diversity of human nature on an individual level, expecting people to be practically normal in the judgment of people's good works to represent a predestined calling which the chosen people can obviously detect.  In reality, Judaism turns society into perpetual paranoia where everyone's judging each other in a balance of powers, so those who are goodwilling in refusing to bully others around end up getting bullied.  That is those who refuse to judge end up getting judged.

That is Jews believe in rugged individualism whereas Catholics believe in methodological individualism.  Liberalism, on the other hand, believes in methodological holism which denies the individuality of who people are on the inside that counts.

Without believing in internal individuality, Quebec will not be productive enough to stand on its own.


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## MrMax (Mar 23, 2014)

Daktoria said:


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Wow, that sure is a lot of hot air to say that Quebec can't make it on its own. Of course it could, but the best solution for Quebec and Canada is to enter into a confederation of independent states, like in Europe, where every province would be independent but still attached to each other. That would kill separatism because you'd play their cards for them.


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## guno (Mar 23, 2014)

novasteve said:


> Typical lefty, the "kosher tax" and all the other nonsense liberal antisemites learned from the nazis.
> 
> Marois defends PQ candidate accused of spouting anti-Semitic myths - Winnipeg Free Press



Funny how we Jews are Liberal and look down on you  rightwing garbage


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## Daktoria (Mar 24, 2014)

MrMax said:


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Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

If you believe Quebec can make it on its own as it is, prove it.


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## Daktoria (Mar 24, 2014)

guno said:


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Funny how "rightwing garbage" prevents Israel from being pushed into the sea.

Maybe rightwing garbage wouldn't exist in the first place if it wasn't for Jewish attitudes that deconstruct social fabric.  Maybe rightwing garbage wouldn't exist if some people didn't believe they were chosen by God to be elected for salvation in judging other people's performance of good works to represent a predestined calling...

...because maybe rightwing garbage wouldn't have had its lives interfered in without consent, and then it would have had the peace of mind required to develop its talents.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 24, 2014)

Anti-Semitism comes in liberal and conservative flavors.


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## Daktoria (Mar 24, 2014)

The weirdest part about it is how much of anti-Semitism comes from self-hatred.

There are neocons who hate liberals for regulating others even though neocons believe in rugged individualism where people can be abusive and blame the victim.  That is some liberals believe in historicist, emotivist, relativist pragmatism, but anti-intellectual neocons who are stuck in their ways still oppose them.

There are liberals who hate paleocons for believing in culture even though liberals believe in creative thinking.  That is some paleocons believe in recognizing the ingenuity of human nature, but liberals who are all about diversity and equality still oppose them.

It's all very weird.  Those who believe in predestined callings end up hating others who believe in the same thing.


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## Indeependent (Mar 24, 2014)

Funny how the Chosen People lack a doctrine that sends all non-Jews to eternal hell.


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## MrMax (Mar 24, 2014)

Daktoria said:


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Independent Quebec would be world?s 27th-richest country, Marceau says


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## Daktoria (Mar 24, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Funny how the Chosen People lack a doctrine that sends all non-Jews to eternal hell.



That's rather easy when the recognition of good works allows for a denial of eternalism.  

"Good works" are subjectively defined according to people's emotions which denies people's internal sense of time in thinking about how to get things done.  Therefore, Jews can identify people who are talented and goodwilling, and tell them they're not entitled to respect unless they do what others want.  Until then, they haven't performed sufficient good works to represent a predestined calling.  

It's kind of like how the bully on the schoolyard playground tells the nerd, "Do my homework or I'm going to beat you up and take your lunch money."  You don't need to threaten eternal hell when the present as awful, especially if you make the present awful again and again.

Simply put, Jews don't need to threaten people with an eternal hell when they just make people's lives hell one moment after the next in the present.


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## Daktoria (Mar 24, 2014)

MrMax said:


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What convinces you that the mere size of an economy determines its sustainability?


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## MHunterB (Mar 24, 2014)

Daktoria said:


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The above makes absolutely no sense.  Judaism does not suggest that 'good works' are of any salvific value - nor is there any 'predestination' in Judaism.

The second and third paragraphs are simply anti-Jewish ravings ..........


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## MrMax (Mar 24, 2014)

Daktoria said:


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There are about 200 economies under that, that survived, why shouldn't Quebec?


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## MHunterB (Mar 24, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Anti-Semitism comes in liberal and conservative flavors.



And the just plain 'wedged', as exemplified below:

"The problem is Judaism takes this one step too far in basically treating people as if they're guilty before proven innocent. It denies the diversity of human nature on an individual level, expecting people to be practically normal in the judgment of people's good works to represent a predestined calling which the chosen people can obviously detect. In reality, Judaism turns society into perpetual paranoia where everyone's judging each other in a balance of powers, so those who are goodwilling in refusing to bully others around end up getting bullied. That is those who refuse to judge end up getting judged."

For someone who's entirely ignorant of Judaism, Daktoria certainly has a lot to say about it..... I was unaware that either Judaism or Catholicism were *political* systems:  I've always thought of them as religions.

Oh, and since Judaism is not a 'race' - anyone can be a 'chosen people' if they wish to join.  It's no worse than the Catholics calling themselves 'the people of GOD' (which they do in the liturgy)........

Anyway, there aren't enough Jews in anyplace outside of Israel to have any real effect on the political system - even IF that poster's words bore any resemblance to facts and reality regarding Judaism.

Although I suppose it's POSSIBLE that Jews in Canada have an entirely different practice of religion than American Jews do, and that somehow in all the years I've been observing the world political scene nobody has ever commented upon that total disconnect before.....but I do not think it's very likely at all.


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## Daktoria (Mar 24, 2014)

MHunterB said:


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...so what does it mean to be the "chosen people" if it has nothing to do with good works or predestined callings?

For example, what's the relevance of being "goyim"?


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## Daktoria (Mar 24, 2014)

MrMax said:


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What convinces you those economies survived independently?


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## MHunterB (Mar 24, 2014)

Daktoria said:


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The only importance of 'chosen' is that YHVH chose the Jews to receive the Sinai Covenant.  In reading the Torah, one comes across references to other Covenants with other peoples - so it's only logical to assume that YHVH had different 'jobs' for different peoples.... The Torah does not claim to be a complete history of  YHVH's dealings with any people, although it is focused on His dealings with the (spiritual) descendants of the Jewish patriarchs.

"Goyim" is simply the Hebrew version of the Latin 'gens' from which we derive 'gentile' and 'genus':  it means simply 'people' or 'nation' in Torah and is not inherently a pejorative.

In the famous passage from Michah ch 4:  "They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more " - the word used in the Hebrew text for 'nation' is 'goy'

This is duplicated in Isaiah 2:4: " They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

And it's also a popular song:   [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePYRxPVio5s]Lo Yisa Goy J Settel - YouTube[/ame]


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## MrMax (Mar 25, 2014)

Daktoria said:


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No economy can survive in a vacuum. Now you know.


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## Daktoria (Mar 25, 2014)

MHunterB said:


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...so put simply, Jews believe in a caste system, and those who aren't liked in society are obligated to endure menial labor rather than being entitled to manage their own lives.  Those who don't like them can simply say it's practically obvious they're not chosen by God to do something even though what's practical is subjective.  Therefore, their property rights can be neglected.

Why is it no surprise that Jews organize themselves in kibbutzes and bunds as well as sympathize with Indian foreign policy?


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## Daktoria (Mar 25, 2014)

MrMax said:


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Does mankind on Earth trade with other civilizations on other planets?

The definition of an "economy" is subject to the level of magnification you look at.  Don't forget the great vacuum of outer space.

Likewise, there's a difference between a symbiotic relationship versus a parasite-host relationship.

In fact, if you read the source you mentioned before:



> Coiteux noted that Quebec accounts for 23 per cent of Canada&#8217;s population, but only 20 per cent of gross domestic product and 27 per cent of public spending.



Quebec is a parasite.  It produces less than its fair share, and consumes more than its fair share.


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## MHunterB (Mar 25, 2014)

Daktoria said:


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That is NOT 'put simply':  that is put WRONGLY. 

"Different 'jobs' for different peoples"  is my wording.  Jews have A 'job' as spelled out in the Sinai Covenant.  YHVH may - or may not! - have assigned other peoples the same tasks, but *Torah does not discuss those other Covenants, so a Jew doesn't claim to know anything about their contents.  WE didn't need to know, or He would have told us.*

To be distinct and unique does NOT mean to be 'better' or 'worse':  Is vanilla ice cream 'better' than chocolate?  Are they both 'better' than strawberry?   WHO CARES?  It's all good!!!!!

 Judaism is about YHVH's relationship with the Jewish people.  It is NOT about 'saving' non-Jewish people. or 'using' non-Jewish people.  It is NOT about non-Jewish people - although it is certainly not closed to anyone who wishes to join.

Jews were chosen for the Sinai Covenant.  Other peoples were evidently chosen for other Covenants:  the Torah does not discuss the details of those Covenants.  So there is NO WAY that Jews could have a 'caste system' as you are thinking of it:  we do not claim to have any knowledge of the nature of His relationships with other peoples.  For a Jew to suggest ANYTHING about GOD's choices for other people is against Torah completely.

There is not only no support for those ideas you attribute to Jews in Torah:  those ideas are absolutely AGAINST Torah, and to seek to do any such thing as that would see those Jews shunned completely (we don't really 'excommunicate').

The Jews who organized themselves in kibbutzim were socialists following a socialist ideal:  they were very seldom religious at all.  And kibbutzim are only PART of the Israeli landscape:  I know of no kibbutzim outside of Israel.   

Your words about 'property rights' are bizarre and there is no support for such a claim in Torah.

I would suggest that the 'bonding' of Israel and India has far more to do with the FACT that neither Judaism nor Hinduism makes any claim to be 'the One True TRUTH' for everyone - as opposed to Christianity and Islam - than anything else.

Generally, the best way to understand religions is to regard each as sui generis and learn the basics of each one *before* rushing into 'conclusions' about perceived similarities between them.....  Many of the most important concepts - salvation, prophet, prophesy, idolatry - do not have the same meaning from one religion to the next.


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