# Executive Order to forgive $50,000 in student debt



## LeftofLeft (Feb 6, 2021)

Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
					

Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.




					www.forbes.com
				




Congratulations US Taxpayer, looks like you will get to pick up the $50,000 tab of irresponsible college students and families who took on more debt than they could handle because they felt entitled to go to private elite colleges 3 time zones away and concentrate their studies in useless majors that have no demand in the job market. These students and families who feel entitled to this have the audacity to say they have been “enslaved” or victimized by student debt. 

Moving forward, there needs to be more controls in place to qualify students and their families towards state and local institutions and concentrations of study that yield good paying jobs. 

Check your race cards and class warfare bullshit at the door.


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## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 6, 2021)

dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......


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## Desperado (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


he banks made bad loans they should be the only ones on the hook for the money


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## Anathema (Feb 6, 2021)

Hey, I went to college... I want $50K of free money for nothing, too. 

Now, my entire degree didn’t even cost $50K, I personally borrowed only $2000 to cover those costs, and I had that paid back before I got my first real career job. Why aren’t these worthless shits being expected to pay their debts?


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## Shelzin (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


I have zero problem with canceling student debt.  Assuming of course its' on the colleges to take the hit, not the government paying off the loan.  It is after all partly the colleges fault for offering something it knows damn well is useless.

Well... If they don't know, then they are pretty shitty colleges...  And as such should take the hit anyway.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 6, 2021)

FREE STUFF !!!

SOCIALISM !!! YAY !!!

it's all good.....until you run out of other peoples money


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## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

Anathema said:


> Hey, I went to college... I want $50K of free money for nothing, too.
> 
> Now, my entire degree didn’t even cost $50K, I personally borrowed only $2000 to cover those costs, and I had that paid back before I got my first real career job. Why aren’t these worthless shits being expected to pay their debts?



 I already answered this. For the same reasons the banks weren't.


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## gipper (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


Yet no one seems to complain about the massive corporate welfare given to Wall Street and the MIC.


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## Moonglow (Feb 6, 2021)

I want them to wait until my last kid goes through college and gets the loans to pay off.


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## MisterBeale (Feb 6, 2021)

Harry Dresden said:


> dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......


While that is a very good point. .  perhaps the solution would be, rather enacting "student loan cancellation," if we could rewind history to the point where the special interests conned both Dems and Repubs to pass legislation to the point where folks could not declare bankruptcy and have those obligations written off and have it reflected on their financial history.

Now. . . I don't know a lot about these issues given my disability and life history, I have never owned property, so feel free to correct me. . . but, if you were in a major car wreck, became a quadriplegic, and could no longer make your note, you could, theoretically, declare bankruptcy and have that mortgage be written off, yes?  Didn't Trump himself declare bankruptcy on several properties?  Just asking here. . . I don't know everything.


. . . the same would not be true for a med student with several hundred thousand dollars in debt.  They would be disabled with that debt for the rest of their disabled lives.  The STATE, in it's infinite wisdom given by the banking interests, decided that student loans were not eligible for bankruptcy court because. . . . . . folks that take out those loans are immune to disastrous life events or something?  I dunno.   



Now, if I have made some errors in logic, please feel free to point them out.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


Does that apply retroactively?  If not, I am going on a 1000 bullet murderous rampage.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 6, 2021)

Desperado said:


> pknopp said:
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> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



Banks have nothing to do with it.  The loans are from the US government.

*Stafford Loans* are federal *loans* made by the government, meaning you're borrowing directly from the U.S. Department of Education. That's who you'll repay when it's time, too. Today, 92% of all student *loans* are made by the federal government.

www.salliemae.com


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## two_iron (Feb 6, 2021)

"by executive order"....lol

They want to be able to blame that autistic stuttering fuck for this communist shit.

Gotta give it to 'em. Those filthy fucking animals know how to play politics.


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## Moonglow (Feb 6, 2021)

Harry Dresden said:


> dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......


If your mortgage is over 50k you should be spanked er oh that's right, you live in California that rich man's paradise. But the colleges are free, no?


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## SassyIrishLass (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...



Do my husband get a refund for filling our debt and responsibilities?

No now we pay for no accounts that refuse to


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## Jim H - VA USA (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


I paid for my children's secondary education in full.  It was painful.  And now I have to pay for other kids too, I see.

I guess I should have let my kids take taxpayer-funded loans instead.

$50k for a doctorate in Gender Studies for a student who got C's and will become an activist and/or politician. Isn't that wonderful.



			https://i.ibb.co/rGN8YMP/universities01.jpg
		








			https://i.ibb.co/VDXbg96/universities02.jpg


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## airplanemechanic (Feb 6, 2021)

More like:

Were you responsible and paid off your student loan debt? You did?

YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKER!!!! HAHAHA!!!

And these students entered into a contract. I'm pretty sure no EO can override that contact and I see a federal judge somewhere stopping this as soon as its enacted.


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## Moonglow (Feb 6, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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I can remember when the interest rate was two percent in 1980 when I got my first one for a whopping one thousand dollars...


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## Moonglow (Feb 6, 2021)

airplanemechanic said:


> More like:
> 
> Were you responsible and paid off your student loan debt? You did?
> 
> YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKER!!!! HAHAHA!!!


yes, thirty five years ago.


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## progressive hunter (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


the same standard is for all of them to pay back their debts,,,

teo wrongs dont make a right,, they make it dbl bad,,


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## airplanemechanic (Feb 6, 2021)

Moonglow said:


> airplanemechanic said:
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> > More like:
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Good, what about the 20 and 30 somethings that just finished paying off their loans in December working two jobs, eating Raman noodles and tv dinners to get by so they can be responsible adults and pay back money they owe? What do you tell those people?


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

They should get it back from the universities for  their defrauding the govt. with that loan sharking scam, and from every company who  ever lied about those totally fictitious 'labor shortages' that misled many to think their majors were economically sound choices. They should also face criminal charges as well. And banks, too, should be seized and their shareholders'personal assets siezed, and refunds distributed.


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## toobfreak (Feb 6, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> FREE STUFF !!! SOCIALISM !!! YAY !!!





QUICK!  JOE!  *I'm a student of life!*  Don't age or education discriminate!  If you give me 50K I promise to study something!


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## SassyIrishLass (Feb 6, 2021)

airplanemechanic said:


> Moonglow said:
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Demoquacks: "Too bad so sad, we need votes!"


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## Desperado (Feb 6, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Then the loan qualifications need to be extremely upgraded.
The people are getting loans that are enough to buy a house  with no collateral and no job?    That is no way to run a business.  They need to hold the loan officers responsible.  Again more federal employees fucking up big time and not being held responsible for their actions


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## boedicca (Feb 6, 2021)

Stealing from the poor to give the rich!   That's the Dem way!


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## Missourian (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


Cool.

Let's take it a step further and forgive everyone's tax debt.


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## Rocko (Feb 6, 2021)

Yeah if he tries to do that with an executive order it will be struck down by the courts


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## AZrailwhale (Feb 6, 2021)

Moonglow said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......
> ...


To have a sub-fifty grand mortgage, you have to live in the middle of nowhere.  In Arizona, my house cost 260,000 three years ago.  I'm sure there are places like Detroit or Baltimore where you can get cheap houses, but does anyone really want to live there?  I seem to remember the city of Detroit being willing to sell houses for $1.00 and getting few or no takers.


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## SassyIrishLass (Feb 6, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


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Dude must live in Shantytown


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## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


I think this is much ado about nothing.  Contracts cannot be undone by EO.  Courts can do it if the contract is shown to be invalid or illegal, but they are going to have to find another way.  Lenders will not stand for it.


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## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


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There are a few towns in Kansas that will GIVE you a house if settle there.


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## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> you could, theoretically, declare bankruptcy and have that mortgage be written off, yes?


No, you could file bankruptcy, true enough, but the lien holder of the property has the right to foreclose and take the property back to be sold to recoup their losses.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


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It's $1 and you pay back taxes and required to do improvements to bring  them back up to code, hardly a 'bargain', which is why Obama and other Democrats pack immigrants into the place, to keep it corrupt and voting Democrat, usually several times each. Many precincts there had over twice the number of votes as they had residents, which is why The Big Giant Recount in Michigan in 2016 suddenly disappeared when it got to Detroit.


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## MisterBeale (Feb 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> MisterBeale said:
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> > you could, theoretically, declare bankruptcy and have that mortgage be written off, yes?
> ...


. . . well. . . O.K.  

That takes care of the principle.

So what we are saying here, is that conservatives have no problem if Biden signed an EO, wiping out all interest, and making students liable for nothing but the principle on their debt?


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


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Never met any conservative who turned down any govt. bailouts or refused to file bankruptcy and screw their debtors, or insisted in paying off what they borrowed to speculate in any of the bubbles that all crashed since the 1970's, so I don't give any credibility to their fake moral objections here. All they do is blame the Democrats as if they had guns held to their heads and were forced to leverage their imaginary equities 50 to 1. I bought three houses for pennies on the dollar from Republicans who lost their asses in the 1980's, and every one of them had weaseled out of paying them off and stampeded over widows and orphans and the elderly to get in front of the line for bankruptcy courts.


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## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


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Not at all.  A mortgage is guaranteed by the real property that backs it.  Student loans have nothing backing them.  A student has borrowed to receive a service which he/she used.  Now it is incumbent on that student to repay OR declare bankruptcy and bear all the negatives that come along with the bankruptcy.  There is no free lunch.


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## RoshawnMarkwees (Feb 6, 2021)

I want all of my kid’s student loan debt paid and I want everything we’ve already spent paid back.
Only democrats should have to pay the taxes that cover this money. Like Liberty Mutual and paying for what you need.


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## justinacolmena (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> private elite colleges 3 time zones away and concentrate their studies in useless majors that have no demand in the job market


And why do Establishment politicians continue to let the administrators and tenured faculty of these colleges off the hook?


LeftofLeft said:


> These students and families who feel entitled to this have the audacity to say they have been “enslaved” or victimized by student debt


Pick up any job application at the unemployment office — you've still got to have that degree just to get your foot in the door — along with references, letters of recommendation, verifiable employment history, two weeks notice, "eligible for rehire," no criminal or mental health history.

Basically you need absolute proof that no one who has had an opportunity to stab you in the back has ever actually stabbed you in the back before or you're screwed when you go looking for work, because somebody has family and is out on a vendetta to ruin your life.


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## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


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Well now you have.  I have NEVER taken any government bailout or welfare.  I have NEVER defaulted on a loan, indeed I have paid off four mortgages.  I served my country for four years in the USMC and did a stint in Vietnam.   I earned and saved and paid cash for  my daughter's education.  So fuck you, parasite.  What have you done, commie?


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> LeftofLeft said:
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> > private elite colleges 3 time zones away and concentrate their studies in useless majors that have no demand in the job market
> ...



 lol  corporate suck ups deserve all that and more.


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## TNHarley (Feb 6, 2021)

Hope this gets challenged immediately


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## 366h34d (Feb 6, 2021)

Rocko said:


> Yeah if he tries to do that with an executive order it will be struck down by the courts


Who will sue??
Trump and Biden both used EO to eliminate interest on student loans during pandemics. So, student loans should be under Fed jurisdiction.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


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lol go fuck yourself, shill. You can claim anything on the innernetz so fuck your anecdotal rubbish as well.


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## MisterBeale (Feb 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


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If you take out a student loan and are unable to repay, you are not allowed to easily declare bankruptcy, that was the intent of my original posting.  Sometimes the costs of declaring bankruptcy from those loans is not attainable for some folks.









						Can You Discharge Your Student Loans In Bankruptcy?
					

Can you really discharge your student loans in bankruptcy? Well, maybe.




					www.forbes.com
				




Yeah, I agree with you.  

We would not be in this mess if folks COULD declare bankruptcy if they found themselves down the line in a position where they were unable to pay off the accumulated interest on that student debt.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

366h34d said:


> Rocko said:
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> > Yeah if he tries to do that with an executive order it will be struck down by the courts
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It qualifies as defrauding the Federal govt. and should be prosecutable under RICO statutes as well, just like Hillary, Obama, Kerry, and the majority of Democrats andmost of the RNC and any company who solicited and received green cards as part of the ongoing criminal conspiracies to commit fraud. Silly Con Valley companies in particular should be made examples of.


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## d0gbreath (Feb 6, 2021)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Does that apply retroactively? If not, I am going on a 1000 bullet murderous rampage.


You stated in another thread that you could only carry 200 rounds. Will you be able to move with 1000?


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## MisterBeale (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


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If you honestly believe that this bailout is for the "students," or the borrows?  I have some wonderful lake front property in the Sahara dessert for you.

Nah bro, this is all for the bankers who know they will never see any of this bad debt, I am sure this is all Janet Yellen's idea.  


The elites loan holders are the ones that will be seeing all this money, they are the ones behind this.  Lincoln project folks probably love this idea.

Keynsians are all about helicopter money.  In the end, this will just further erode the purchasing power of the dollar.


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## noonereal (Feb 6, 2021)

Shelzin said:


> LeftofLeft said:
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> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
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You guys really are anti science/education.

Deplorable.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


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'Fake 'conservatives' don't object the limited liability scams that come with incorporation and LLC's, as those allow them to loot companies and not have to put their personal assets at risk if their businesses go bankrupt. This is one reason they have no credibility with all their hard ass blathering re student loans; they're hypocrites and liars, for the most part; Ive only seen a very few paleo- Libertarians who advocate getting rid of that scam and the 'corporate personhood' racket. You will never see a Republican advocating real 'free trade' or see an opinion supporting doing away with that on Town Hall or any 'conservative' fever swamp.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


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I have no idea what you're babbling about. I never said it was about 'The Students', it's about corporations defrauding the govt. and those who have to pay back the loans with interest being scammed. You don't read very well.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Rocko said:


> Yeah if he tries to do that with an executive order it will be struck down by the courts



Not if his Party owns the courts, and they own a lot of them.


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## Shelzin (Feb 6, 2021)

noonereal said:


> You guys really are anti science/education.
> 
> Deplorable.


*laughs*   

I'm absolutely FOR science and education.   Getting a education that won't land you a good paying job is quite the education.   Learned something really important there, make sure your kids don't make the same mistake.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> They should get it back from the universities for  their defrauding the govt. with that loan sharking scam, and from every company who  ever lied about those totally fictitious 'labor shortages' that misled many to think their majors were economically sound choices. They should also face criminal charges as well. And banks, too, should be seized and their shareholders'personal assets siezed, and refunds distributed.



There are no banks!  Learn how the system works before blathering!


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## 22lcidw (Feb 6, 2021)

I believe that all suckers in this Prog working class/retiree class warfare agenda who stay married for their whole lives should get marriage debt payoffs.  Yo other people in different nations, we sell out to the highest bidders.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


Does Biden have authority to do that?  Student loans were created by legislation from Congress.


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## Jarlaxle (Feb 6, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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And a reason, of course, that tuition costs have skyrocketed...


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 6, 2021)

366h34d said:


> Rocko said:
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> > Yeah if he tries to do that with an executive order it will be struck down by the courts
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That was interest, not the whole loan!


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## Jarlaxle (Feb 6, 2021)

airplanemechanic said:


> Good, what about the 20 and 30 somethings that just finished paying off their loans in December working two jobs, eating Raman noodles and tv dinners to get by so they can be responsible adults and pay back money they owe? What do you tell those people?



DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUM, you got suckered!


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## SassyIrishLass (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


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Beyond stupid..... you're obviously a gummit leech


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## Jarlaxle (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


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I wouldn't love it, but don't have nearly as much of a problem with that.


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## Jarlaxle (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> If you honestly believe that this bailout is for the "students," or the borrows?  I have some wonderful lake front property in the Sahara dessert for you.
> 
> Nah bro, this is all for the bankers who know they will never see any of this bad debt, I am sure this is all Janet Yellen's idea.
> 
> ...


No...it is about openly purchasing votes. No more and no less.


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## Jimmy_Chitwood (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.




What money?


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## task0778 (Feb 6, 2021)

I think Biden will sign an EO to forgive all federal student debt, and if and when the courts declare that action to be illegal (which they will), he's off the hook.  He's going to use EOs to do a lot of stuff with EOs cuz he ain't going to get much help from Congress even though the Dem control both chambers, unless they manage to eliminate the filibuster, one way or another.  A couple of Dem senators have said they won't vote for that, but I think Schumer will find a back door to get most of what he wants passed through the Senate.


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## 366h34d (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


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I understand where you are coming from. I believe Biden will deal with the department of education's direct loan first. Then, he will make his next move base on the 'woke' feedback.


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## noonereal (Feb 6, 2021)

task0778 said:


> I think Biden will sign an EO to forgive all federal student debt





Then, in truth, you are not thinking. 

Biden will forgive 10 grand and the courts will be fine with it.

You will again feel you were not put first and will be resentful.


Tough.  Deal with it.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 6, 2021)

This is highly unlikely to happen


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## Shelzin (Feb 6, 2021)

noonereal said:


> I was fortunate to not be as stupid of you.


Stupid *as* you.   Lord knows I make spelling and grammar mistakes... I wouldn't normally hold that against someone.   But... Damn son.   That's horrible timing.

*chuckles*


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 6, 2021)

Corporate incentives and bailouts are not comparable to egregious college debt. Here’s why: A corporation creates jobs. A corporation pays taxes. A corporation creates products where sales taxes are paid on those products. That all adds up for value for the economy and revenue for the State to pay for programs. How is that equivalent to the irresponsible student and parents that just TOOK $100ks of debt and emerged with skills sets for no jobs in demand? 

I am not against affordable loans that can be repaid or outright grants for students to gain skills for which there is a demand.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
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> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
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They were meant to subsidize universities  and pay for training corporations' employees for them at taxpayers expense, i.e. welfare and freebies for the middle class academics and corporate shareholders, which is why they should be forced to pay every cent of it back. If corporations want the govt. to train their employees for them they can pay for it out their own and their shareholders' pockets themselves, especially pirates like Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, AT&T, the drug companies, etc., including the ones they don't hire.


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## noonereal (Feb 6, 2021)

Shelzin said:


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so you gage intellect through grammar mistakes

Now that is a cerebral approach.


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## noonereal (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Corporate incentives and bailouts are not comparable to egregious college debt. Here’s why: A corporation creates jobs. A corporation pays taxes. A corporation creates products where sales taxes are paid on those products. That all adds up for value for the economy and revenue for the State to pay for programs. How is that equivalent to the irresponsible student and parents that just TOOK $100ks of debt and emerged with skills sets for no jobs in demand?
> 
> I am not against affordable loans that can be repaid or outright grants for students to gain skills for which there is a demand.




I swear, one post is more ignorant than the next here. 

You one upped him!


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> DudleySmith said:
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> > They should get it back from the universities for  their defrauding the govt. with that loan sharking scam, and from every company who  ever lied about those totally fictitious 'labor shortages' that misled many to think their majors were economically sound choices. They should also face criminal charges as well. And banks, too, should be seized and their shareholders'personal assets siezed, and refunds distributed.
> ...



Rubbish. They make a killing off of re-financing the debts, at high interest rates, as well as making supplemental loans to students. Learn how not to be clueless and credulous.


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


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You're just another ideological tool, is all.


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## Shelzin (Feb 6, 2021)

noonereal said:


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Maybe you should read the post again.   I just admitted I do that myself, and wouldn't normally say anything.  But I would certainly proof read a post when calling someone else stupid.  Wait... wait... Let me get that emote


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## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> MisterBeale said:
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> > If you honestly believe that this bailout is for the "students," or the borrows?  I have some wonderful lake front property in the Sahara dessert for you.
> ...



And  pols soliciting bribes.


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## Harry Dresden (Feb 6, 2021)

Moonglow said:


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> 
> 
> > dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......
> ...


dont live there anymore.....escaped in 15....


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

366h34d said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > 366h34d said:
> ...



He just might, but I think he's too crooked to go against real money for no personal gain on his part any more than your typical Republican or fair weather 'conservative' ever will.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

Harry Dresden said:


> dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......


You can do that yourself with bankruptcy.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> This is highly unlikely to happen


Yep


----------



## task0778 (Feb 6, 2021)

noonereal said:


> task0778 said:
> 
> 
> > I think Biden will sign an EO to forgive all federal student debt
> ...



_"Biden will forgive 10 grand and the courts will be fine with it."
_
I doubt that, some say the current law does not allow for mass forgiveness regardless of what the amount is.


_"You will again feel you were not put first and will be resentful."_

I have never been put first in my life, and frankly do not regret it.  I totally earned everything I've got and I like it that way.


_"Tough.  Deal with it."_

Fuck off, asshole.  Was just wondering if you've been taking lessons on how to be a dick or whether you just have a natural talent for it.


----------



## 22lcidw (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...


The costs of college should not be that  high and the professors are progs.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Corporate incentives and bailouts are not comparable to egregious college debt. Here’s why: A corporation creates jobs. A corporation pays taxes. A corporation creates products where sales taxes are paid on those products. That all adds up for value for the economy and revenue for the State to pay for programs. How is that equivalent to the irresponsible student and parents that just TOOK $100ks of debt and emerged with skills sets for no jobs in demand?
> 
> I am not against affordable loans that can be repaid or outright grants for students to gain skills for which there is a demand.



We now have fewer jobs than existed 30 years go, and a much larger population to feed, Jobs 'created' om Mexico or Red China don't mean squat here =, they're just another drain on our economy. They aren't creating any net 'value' here, and the financial sectors sucks up over 80% of profits now, and all they 'create' is debt and rent seeking, not anything 'product_ive'._


----------



## Harry Dresden (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......
> ...


really i can just declare bankruptcy?.....and 50 thousand of the loan will be gone?....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

Harry Dresden said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...


Yep! Your house, too.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


how would the house be gone?.....i would still owe money?....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

Harry Dresden said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...


It would be sold by the bank. That's how declaring on secured debt works. Think of $50K in credit card debt, though. Yes, you can declare on every penny and let the rest of us pick up the tab. Same for medical debt.


----------



## badger2 (Feb 6, 2021)

Academia can be nuts, though knowledge is not useless, but power.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


thanks but i think my post was misinterpreted by you...


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.



The point is to kick the proles around and allow them to be screwed over by corporations and loan sharks, because all profit is good profits no matter how they're made.


----------



## justinacolmena (Feb 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Well now you have. I have NEVER taken any government bailout or welfare. I have NEVER defaulted on a loan, indeed I have paid off four mortgages. I served my country for four years in the USMC and did a stint in Vietnam. I earned and saved and paid cash for my daughter's education. So fuck you, parasite. What have you done, commie?



Damn, you've got to have it made in the Marine Corps, be a millionaire by your own sweat and toil. That isn't going to go well for your daughter's classmates who aren't quite so privileged on the right track with the right families and the military and government connections to make it in this life.

That's a lot of cash for an ex-Marine to carry unless you've got a few weapons or two to defend yourself and a lot of gun control politics to keep guns out of the hands of crazies and criminals like me who aren't allowed to make earn, or keep any money anyways, and more laws to protect your wimmuns and chilluns at colleges and universities from mean scary people like me who aren't entitled to such honors and decorations.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Moonglow said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......
> ...



According to the vast majority of 'conservatives', if you borrow $200,000 to gamble with on a $15,000 house during a speculative bubble and then the market drops and the house is back to $15,000, then you shouldn't be forced to pay off the $200,000 cuz you were 'doing business'. If you borrowed a few grand to major in Computer programming because of universities and companies claiming there were big giant shortages of programmers n stuff and they pay $100,000 a year with no experience!' only to find out they won't give you an interview unless you were a foreign student and needed a visa to stay here and work for $10 an hour rather than go back to live in that shithole mud hut in Mumbai, then it's your fault, not the schools or the companies problem all of a sudden.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Well now you have. I have NEVER taken any government bailout or welfare. I have NEVER defaulted on a loan, indeed I have paid off four mortgages. I served my country for four years in the USMC and did a stint in Vietnam. I earned and saved and paid cash for my daughter's education. So fuck you, parasite. What have you done, commie?
> ...



He means he did well because he got a government job with good bennies and medical subsidies, and VA mortgage subsidies that no longer exist in the private sector and wants us to believe he did it all by himself with no help. He never paid the Marine corp back for that free paid training  he got from them either.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...


You are a typical uneducated democrat moron and I don't have anymore time to waste on you--So you are CANCELLED.  HaHaHaHaHaHa!


----------



## BlackSand (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...



Compulsory Service should take care of their debt, at least if they intend to saddle the US taxpayer with it ...   

.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> justinacolmena said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...


WRONG again moron.  I have never used a VA mortgage guarantee as the same program was offered to everyone in the nation under the FHA.  And as far as paying the Marine CorpS back,  I worked for four years at LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE, fucking moron.  It is clear that you didn't learn a fucking thing in school and probably went into debt to learn basket weaving.  You are a useless piece of skin around an asshole.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 Maybe not BUT that is not what we do. As I've long said, as long as we do for the rich, I'm going to advocate for the rest.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 6, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Well now you have. I have NEVER taken any government bailout or welfare. I have NEVER defaulted on a loan, indeed I have paid off four mortgages. I served my country for four years in the USMC and did a stint in Vietnam. I earned and saved and paid cash for my daughter's education. So fuck you, parasite. What have you done, commie?
> ...


HaHa, I know, you be a victim.  Get off of your lazy ass and work, learn a trade and maybe, just maybe you'll grow to be something besides a parasite.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

Missourian said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 Everyone? No. As long as the government is providing you millions, you should pay taxes on that.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


then youre just making sure the problem never gets solved,, in otherwords you are the problem,,


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 I'm not a history teacher. If you have had your head buried in the sand for the last few decades, whatever.


----------



## Rambunctious (Feb 6, 2021)

So maybe SBA borrowers should be forgiven as well...doesn't the constitution say we must all be treated equally?...


----------



## Rambunctious (Feb 6, 2021)

Anyone that borrowed money from uncle Sam needs to be treated the same as the students or its unconstitutional....


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.



Yeah, great idea.  If you see something that is damaging the entire country... instead of saying 'let's not do that bad thing' you say 'let's apply that bad system to absolutely everyone, and destroy our country completely!'.

Good idea.  Let's do that.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > progressive hunter said:
> ...



 I've been arguing for years to make the rich, the banks, etc to pay what they owe to no avail. So it's my fault, not those who will not insist that happens?


----------



## skews13 (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...



That's ok. We had to pick up the tab for Trumps 6 bankruptcies, while played golf. 

Oh yeah, we picked up the tab for that to.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 I've argued to not do that for years. We are doing it everyday. Not because of me.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > justinacolmena said:
> ...



lol s you did nothng a truck driver didn't do re wages, government leech boy. Quit pretending you didn't take any bennies; nobody beleives that bullshit.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...




it would help if you were specific to what and why they owe,, 
I am sure I agree mostly with what youre talking about,, but making the problem worse only insures it wont stop or change,,,


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Doing it every day?  I don't think so.

I don't know about you, but I voted against every single politician that supported the bailouts, or the stimulus package.  

So maybe instead of attacking the Tea Party that opposed that, we should have supported that ideology, instead of OWS that pushed for more government give outs.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Andylusion said:
> ...



The "Tea Party" under Ron Paul once supported that. That Tea Party no longer exists. I supported Ron Paul.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...




we are still here,,,


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Andylusion said:
> ...



 With like me, zero influence.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...




peace comes from within,,,


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > progressive hunter said:
> ...



 I'm obviously fine with my choices.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...



I quoted the truth regarding student loans.  I am sorry your lack of a GED did not hold up.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

Rambunctious said:


> Anyone that borrowed money from uncle Sam needs to be treated the same as the students or its unconstitutional....


Has that argument EVER worked in court? Ever?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Kind of  true. The servicers -- like Navient -- do what the other poster said. And they use Sallie Mae Bank to operate.


----------



## OldLady (Feb 6, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> This is highly unlikely to happen


The article in the OP says Biden doesn't believe he has the authority to forgive student loans via an E.O.  He wants Congress to pass legislation to forgive $10,000 but do you see Republicans agreeing to that?  A lot of Democrats want more, so they wouldn't agree with it either.

I agree this isn't going to happen.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

OldLady said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > This is highly unlikely to happen
> ...


When is the last time. Republicans voted to pass any legislation written by democrats? They will call it communism and be applauded for filibustering it by their base.


----------



## Flash (Feb 6, 2021)

I can't wait for China Joe's Executive Order to forgive China for stealing American jobs and technology.  It will be a duzzie.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

Flash said:


> I can't wait for China Joe's Executive Order to forgive China for stealing American jobs and technology.  It will be a duzzie.


You should hold your breath.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


Because ALL College students suck. They should WORK their way through college. No freebies.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...


When was the last time filthy Democrats sided with Americans?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

San Souci said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > OldLady said:
> ...


Election day, 2020. Thanks for asking!


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



You just quoted what other morons think, nothing original. The loans have Federal guarantees and they also re-finance them later on down the road when the McDonalds economy leaves them unable to make normal payments. Whether you know that or not is not my problem, tard.


----------



## BluesLegend (Feb 6, 2021)

Just fire up the printing press and gift every American $10 million dollars. Christ its like that Festival episode of Star Trek.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...


 He's another one pampered by Uncle Sammy and doesn't know how the private sector really works.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Americans? Or paper Ballots? We will never know. PS--Trump got 70% of Election day votes. Try again ,Comrade.


----------



## justinacolmena (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> didn't take any bennies;











						Benzodiazepine Abuse Basics
					

Benzodiazepines are a type of medication known as tranquilizers -- familiar names are Valium and Xanax -- that are easily abused. Learn more from WebMD about the effects, symptoms, and abuse of these drugs.




					www.webmd.com


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Flash said:


> I can't wait for China Joe's Executive Order to forgive China for stealing American jobs and technology.  It will be a duzzie.



He's already did that years ago. So did Republicans.


----------



## skews13 (Feb 6, 2021)

BluesLegend said:


> Just fire up the printing press and gift every American $10 million dollars. Christ its like that Festival episode of Star Trek.



Actually, it's what jubilee is in the bible.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 6, 2021)

skews13 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



A bankruptcy will still yield more revenue and ROI to the State vs. a brat grabbing debt in the name of college he/she feels entitled to because of their economic class. Prove me wrong.... using economic metrics, show me how a spoiled brat grabbing debt for a failed degree usurps a Bankruptcy?


----------



## Flash (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > I can't wait for China Joe's Executive Order to forgive China for stealing American jobs and technology.  It will be a duzzie.
> ...




Trump pushed back on the trade deals and stopped a lot of the technology transfers and that is why the Chicoms helped China Joe to steal the election.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

San Souci said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 Who is it working for the billions the fed is pumping into the markets?


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 6, 2021)

Flash said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


I agree. But establishment Republicans weren't supporters of Trump.

I don't have time to look up the complete timelines of MFN for Red China from Nixon and Carter on, but here are a couple of links detailing some it, and traitors were at work on both sides of the aisles.









						China’s Most-Favored-Nation (MFN) Status: Congressional Consideration, 1989-1998
					






					www.everycrsreport.com
				






			https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/06/normalizing-trade-relations-with-china-was-a-mistake/562403/
		


Didn't matter which Party had the majority, it somehow always benefited Red China, even after Tainmen Square. In fact it got even more lucrative for them after that.
if you find the first link confusing and seemingly see both Bush and Clinton contradicting themselves, they were; this was deliberate and intentional on their part, as it was with Congress and the Senate committees; but, it managed to work out to REd China's and Wall Street's immense benefit, no matter what atrocities had to be ignored.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

San Souci said:


> paper Ballots? We will never know


No, YOU will never know, because you have been permanently brain damaged by the orange slob's election lies. The entire world outside the Trump cult knows.


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 6, 2021)

OldLady said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > This is highly unlikely to happen
> ...



Yeah, and you know who else believed he didn't have the Authority?  Obama on DACA, and a few months after openly saying he didn't have the authority to pass things via executive order, he did it anyway.


----------



## OldLady (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...


Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.


Andylusion said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...


I suppose it's possible.  And it was a big campaign promise.  Hopefully, cooler minds will prevail.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 6, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> Yeah, and you know who else believed he didn't have the Authority?  Obama on DACA, and a few months after openly saying he didn't have the authority to pass things via executive order, he did it anyway.



If Biden signs an EO he'll get challenged in court and I don't see the Trump SCOTUS okaying this authority


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 6, 2021)

OldLady said:


> Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.



It's not.  In fact, I would argue it will make college tuition even more expensive than it is now.  The way to solve this issue is stop freely doling out easily accessible student loans at astronomical amounts.  When the government started "helping" everyone go to college they created this bubble.

Bear in mind, I owe $40k in student loans still because I went all the way through grad school.  All of that debt would be wiped out, so I'd benefit from this enormously and I still oppose this.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.
> ...



 The bubble is nowhere near the problem of the financial bubble they created.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > OldLady said:
> ...



No doubt, but two wrongs don't make a right.  Where does it end?  We justify that to do this and then what's next?  We're $27 trillion in debt.  I've been saying for years our debt is going to cause us major economic problems down the road. How much longer do we have at this rate?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 6, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...



 I'm going to support those on the lower end as long as we are give those at the top billions.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 6, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...



Wrong answer again!  Are you just trolling or stupid?

The *William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan Program* (also called *FDLP*, *FDSLP*, and *Direct Loan Program*) provides "low-interest loans for students and parents to help pay for the cost of a student's education after high school.* The lender is the U.S. Department of Education ... rather than a bank or other financial institution.*





__





						Federal Direct Student Loan Program - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 6, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, and you know who else believed he didn't have the Authority?  Obama on DACA, and a few months after openly saying he didn't have the authority to pass things via executive order, he did it anyway.
> ...



Oh I do.   I have zero faith in the SCOTUS.  Everyone said the same thing about Obama care, and all the supposedly conservative judged wimped out.

No faith in the supreme court at all. Zero. None. They have lost their minds.


----------



## busybee01 (Feb 6, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...



The trouble is that even state colleges have seen huge increases in tuition because Republican governore have cut the amount of money that goes to colleges. A lot of this was never going to be paid anyway so that would be a acknowledgement of reality.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 6, 2021)

Anathema said:


> Hey, I went to college... I want $50K of free money for nothing, too.
> 
> Now, my entire degree didn’t even cost $50K, I personally borrowed only $2000 to cover those costs, and I had that paid back before I got my first real career job. Why aren’t these worthless shits being expected to pay their debts?


Trump U was that cheap?


----------



## San Souci (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


Certainly not College punks.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > paper Ballots? We will never know
> ...


Where is that great plan to disperse the Vaccine that Bad Orange Man GOT for us? Well? Seems to have slowed down. Hmmmmm.... Oh ,yes. The Dems want to impeach an Ex-President. That will really help get the Covid assistance passed.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 6, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.
> ...


Those who take on Debt and have it excused by Gov't decree will be forever dependent ON the Gov't.


----------



## Jimmy_Chitwood (Feb 6, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


 it seems you must have been public schooled let help you out

If it's not alone you don't have to pay it back

Now try and keep up and feel free to ask for more help when you need it


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 6, 2021)

OldLady said:


> Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.


Well, no, definitely not. This is us being our usual stupid. Welcome to America. We like to put bandaids on broken legs, here. $10,000? Who does that really help, anyway? How is that amortized? standard repayment on $10,000 is about $100/month. If $100/month hurts you, you aren't paying your full student loan payment, anyway. You are almost certainly on an income-based repayment program, which means you won't see a monthly savings, anyway. You would, granted, shed the income-based payment sooner. But again... if that payment stings all that much (it is as low as zero), you have bigger financial problems than this.  Go big, or go home, on this one. Do a percentage. Do maybe 1/3 annual 2020 gross income, up to $100K household income. For starters. Maybe a lower percentage for incomes > $100K to $400K.


----------



## Oldestyle (Feb 6, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......
> ...


It's a simple concept actually.  It makes no sense at all to allow a medical student fresh out of school to declare themselves bankrupt...wipe out all of their debt...and then start a career where they are getting paid huge amounts of money!


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 6, 2021)

busybee01 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



So you'd rather bankrupt the entire state?  That spend until bankrupt plan worked well for Detroit.

And by the way, that isn't even remotely true.  

You still get a degree for barely $4,800 a year, and yes that is very affordable.


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.
> ...



I would argue that you should work a job while in college, and pay your way through.  And yes you can do that because I know people who have.  

Or you can get a job that has tuition reimbursement, and have that pay your way through. And I know people who did that.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 6, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> > Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.
> ...


Those who can't pay back student loans took nothing useful in College. Like Ethnic History. Just for instance ,mind you. (snicker)


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 6, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, I went to college... I want $50K of free money for nothing, too.
> ...



Given how you never have a valid argument, and constantly resort to lame attempts at mocking, I wager you are the one who went to Trump U.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 6, 2021)

busybee01 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



The core trouble is people took on more debt than they should have. Republican or Democrat, it’s time for limits.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...


Yes. Close all the Liberal Arts Colleges. Set up Trade Schools for Regular folks. And Colleges should specialize. Why should a future Doctor learn Literature? Or a future Writer lean Biology? These should be taught in High School. And sensitivity training and Ethnic studies should be banned.


----------



## Scottish_Brexiteer_UK (Feb 7, 2021)

More free stuff.

Nice.


----------



## gtopa1 (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


Fees to go up $50000 in the next month???

Greg


----------



## Staidhup (Feb 7, 2021)

busybee01 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...


Interesting and all along I thought state colleges
were funded through land grants and state appropriations (bonds) and state taxes, now it’s the GOP that cut federal funding? What colleges and universities receive a majority of their funding from the Federal Government? The Federal government does guarantee student college loans, and yes funds some specific research.
The issue remains majoring in a discipline that, when completed, provides an income greater than that of a non degree holder would receive. Nothing in this world is free, one has to apply themselves and work for it so the government can extrapolate the sweat and toil of your labor and success. A college degree in a non marketable skill set is a waste of time, nothing more than a myth perpetuated by the liberal demigods in the ivory towers. Nice idea just doesn’t pan out.
Now when is the government going to reimburse those that paid off their loans and those that leveraged their assets to provide a child the opportunity to attend college?


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 7, 2021)

San Souci said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



You can go to a liberal arts college or state school to


Staidhup said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...





> Now when is the government going to reimburse those that paid off their loans and those that leveraged their assets to provide a child the opportunity to attend college?



Sen. Warren was asked this very question by a parent that had just finished paying loans off. She smiled at him and said “no”. Then the chicken shit turn and ran so she would not have to justify or explain.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...


A Degree in Liberal Arts and 5 bucks can get a Coffee at Starbucks.---Warren is the biggest Phony in Politics. Gets the Hillary Award!


----------



## BertramN (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


You trump Nazis shouldn't worry, another tax cut for the billionaires, and the "trickle down" will have the feds recoup that money in no time.

.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Feb 7, 2021)

Harry Dresden said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



No, current bankruptcy laws protect the lender

Once again Ft Fuck looks the imbecile


----------



## candycorn (Feb 7, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> FREE STUFF !!!
> 
> SOCIALISM !!! YAY !!!
> 
> it's all good.....until you run out of other peoples money


Did the farmers refuse their $24B in socialist support (on top of the subsidies)? 

" *Direct farm aid has climbed each year of Trump’s presidency, from $11.5 billion in 2017 to more than $32 billion this year* — an all-time high, with potentially far more funding still to come in 2020, amounting to about two-thirds of the cost of the entire Department of Housing and Urban Development and more than the Agriculture Department’s $24 billion discretionary budget, according to a POLITICO analysis. But lawmakers have taken a largely hands-off approach, letting the department decide who gets the money and how much. "









						‘Here’s your check’: Trump’s massive payouts to farmers will be hard to pull back
					

The president was already spending double his predecessor to spare farmers the cost of his trade war. Now the price is reaching unsustainable levels.




					www.politico.com


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Feb 7, 2021)

candycorn said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > FREE STUFF !!!
> ...



Farmers feed you.... worthless degrees pull your dumbass down. 

You borrow you pay it back, I have no desire to pay for anyone's poor judgement or lack of responsibility. We paid ours...you should


----------



## candycorn (Feb 7, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...



LOL....

The food should be free.  We've already paid the farmers.  Why are they able to sell stuff we've already paid for?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

Jimmy_Chitwood said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...



I think that you shouldn't be questioning the education of others.


----------



## Flash (Feb 7, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> ...




Neither party has any incentive to reduce the debt or even have anything close to a balanced budget.

Politicians controlling and spending money gives them power. 

Generally speaking Democrats spend money to buy the vote of the welfare queens.

Republicans spend money to stimulate the economy.

Members of both parties spend money to cater to foreign interest groups, that pay well.

We had a chance in the 1990s to pass a balanced budget bill but Slick Willy chickenshitted out on it and all the Democrats and a sizeable number of Republicans were all too glad he did.


----------



## Burgermeister (Feb 7, 2021)

This was inevitable when Obama took the loan program over completely with the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act. Funny how these things always describe the opposite of the effect they promote. It was going to save so much money. Like Obamacare.


----------



## Anathema (Feb 7, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Trump U was that cheap?



I said college, not a clown school. In the early 1990s I attended an accredited, small private university here in New England that was far closer to a trade school than a typical liberal arts school.

I got my Associates of Science degree in Computer Aided Design and Drafting (CADD) over two years (the standard time). I stayed on campus both years and learned at least as much in the dorms as I did in class. 

My parents paid a good portion of the tuition and fees. I had $5-8K of scholarship money each year, plus financial aid. I did have to take out a $2000 loan fo my first year.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


most evil people are,,


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

Oldestyle said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



Medical school students have plenty of options that allow them choices that get them out of college not owing a dime, so that isn;t an issue for that major. The real issue is the costs of catering to a bunch of unqualified seat warmers, some 90% of whom shouldn't be admitted to college in the first place and all the building budgets and salaries and new expenses being racked up by these colleges all based on a scam and a lie re the necessity of having to have a college degree for part time semi-skilled jobs. it is a criminal racket, and it's stupid to keep sniveling and whiining about some 18 year olds making bad decisions while the alleged 'adults' keep conning them and an entire infrastructure of liars and crooks created to keep them making bad decisions.

 It isn't 18 year olds running these scams, it's adult criminals and predators, and they need to be bankrupted and sent down the road, CEO's,' scholars', all of them.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Oldestyle said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



Who really wants lawyers, engineers, teachers, etc to get a stupid degree anyway. Just go at it.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



How about private businesses training their own employees instead of whining for govt. to do it, then sniveling about how the govt. does it.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > Oldestyle said:
> ...



Good idea. You don't need college to study for a bar exam anyway; this country did fine with self-educated professionals for over 150 years. So did Wall Street and all the big corporations. Why should the Fed train a company's employees for them? Conservatives like to make lots of noise all about 'free enterprise', yet demand taxpayers train and educate their workers. It's hypocrisy and bullshit. Companies did just fine with hiring people with liberal arts degrees and training them. John D. took a few business school courses in accounting and regular high school. Walter Chrysler learned engineering working as a blacksmith on a railroad shop floor.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...



 In some cases they shouldn't. Good luck getting corporations to train their own employee's. That's not good for stock prices.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 7, 2021)

The United States of America is in grave danger of falling apart.....

Unfortunately half the population is delighted about that.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

candycorn said:


> LOL....
> 
> The food should be free.  We've already paid the farmers.  Why are they able to sell stuff we've already paid for?



This is actually a good point.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > LOL....
> ...


no it isnt,, I'm a farmer and the government has only take from me and not given me anything but heartache,,,


----------



## BS Filter (Feb 7, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...


When you buy a house in Baltimore or Detroit for $1, you better understand that your neighbors will be Twyvon Dupree, Leroyshazamba Brodenta, and Laquishaniqua Smith, and they're all on welfare with 5 kids.  You're gonna have to co-op with Kool Aid and peanut butter on white bread, Skittles, and Colt 45.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



You're just some guy who wants the government to subsidize your Green Acres fantasy about being a 'country squire''. Big Ag feeds by far the most people, good or bad, and I know several farmers who do just great in the boutique farming niches, like aloe, etc. If you're 'experiencing nothing but heartache' it's probably because you keep trying to get away with something but aren't bright enough to pull anything off.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 7, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



So, what's the deal with Bill Gates buying up so much American farmlands ???

Clearly he knows something we don't *yet*.
  Whatever the reason.....it is NOT good for Americans I know that.
I suspect part of agenda21 is the taking of food production and placing it under strict government control.
The fools on the Left keep cheering their own demise.

*    The New York Post  *
*  Bill Gates is now the largest farmland owner in America *

Bill Gates is now the largest farmland owner in America


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

BS Filter said:


> AZrailwhale said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Actually most of them will be a transient population of squatters, and will eventually burn the houses down, even those with people living in them. It looked like  WW II Dresden years ago.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...


great another fucking mind reader,,


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...



He knows mass production is the only way ag pays, and the land is relatively cheap now, the same reasons Red Chinese are buying up west coast property like there is no tomorrow. Biden and the Democrats are going to provide them with all the cheap brown labor they could ever want with their open borders program.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

progressive hunter said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > progressive hunter said:
> ...



Your skull is wide open. Even Buck Wheat could read it that little thing.


----------



## progressive hunter (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...


what ever you say buttercup,,


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



Agreed. The only thing the government should do is provide tax incentives.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 7, 2021)

You two seem to be on the same side.........


----------



## j-mac (Feb 7, 2021)

My belief is that these Universities with their over bloated endowments, and top heavy administrations with outrageous salaries milking the middle class for abusing the trust of education, and filling these young minds with bull shit quasi Marxist theory, should have to dip into their endowments to take care of this demand....


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 7, 2021)

j-mac said:


> My belief is that these Universities with their over bloated endowments, and top heavy administrations with outrageous salaries milking the middle class for abusing the trust of education, and filling these young minds with bull shit quasi Marxist theory, should have to dip into their endowments to take care of this demand....



They won't.   You (and I) will

"All that was required for evil men to enslave free men was for free men to do nothing"


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 7, 2021)

Time to buy another "My Pillow"


----------



## task0778 (Feb 7, 2021)

OldLady said:


> Although I understand the argument for it, I don't think this is the way to handle the problem of the high cost of college education.



Frankly, I don't know of a better way.  It's probably not a one answer problem anyway, but I don't believe the federal gov't should be involved in student loans.  Or mortgages either.  Or abortions.  Or minimum wage.  Or local law and order.  Or health care.  All of these and more are best solved at the local and state level, each according to their needs and resources.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

task0778 said:


> I have never been put first in my life



yes, all Trumpists cry this tune.

It's part of their demonic liturgy.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> learn a trade




we have immigrants for that
We have a higher calling.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > Oldestyle said:
> ...



Teachers, lawyers, doctors, IT, plumbers, mechanics are what we want and are needed. What is not needed are gluts of Womens Studies majors who are $100ks in debt hoping they can get a piece of the Gender Tendencies in Pakistan program.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...



 There is no glut. Your hyperbole is ignored.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

22lcidw said:


> professors are progs



Of course they are, they are educated! WTF?

College costs are fine, who pays teh costs is not. 

This is clearly a cost that should be on business not on the student nor government.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > DudleySmith said:
> ...



More teachers and lawyers? LOL

We have way to many of these leaches as it is.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> I would argue that you should work a job while in college, and pay your way through.


A fair point, but not a solution to the problem. Pointing at people and saying, "Do better!" is a nonsolution. It is literally "doing nothing". And woth todays tuition costs, its not a viable situation for most students anyway. $15-20K per year at most State universities. Do YOU have $15-$20K annual disposable income? Did you have that when you were 19?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


No, we have. a teacher shortage.


----------



## Dagosa (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


Bet your arse it’s a good deal. Let’s PARTY !


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



we do? 

pretty much any warm body will do

that is how the last generation learned


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

task0778 said:


> Frankly, I don't know of a better way. It's probably not a one answer problem anyway, but I don't believe the federal gov't should be involved in student loans. Or mortgages either. Or abortions. Or minimum wage. Or local law and order. Or health care. All of these and more are best solved at the local and state level, each according to their needs and resources.



A better way is let them payoff their own debt like my niece and nephew just did.  HTF are these people supposed to learn anything by being bailed out when they make a mistake?  I understand the Democrat party is the party of irresponsible people, but making more irresponsible people certainly won't help this nation one bit.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



When the supply exceeds the demand, there is a glut. Please, do share where there is such high demand for these types of majors.  Please show the compelling data to go $100ks in debt for gender studies majors? Contrast that to the shortage of Cybersecurity analysts where you can get certifications at local colleges for less that than $5k and a high paying job that is in demand?


----------



## Staidhup (Feb 7, 2021)

candycorn said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > FREE STUFF !!!
> ...


You don’t know what the F your talking about, which doesn’t surprise me. Maybe you should sit down with a Rancher or Farmer and educate yourself before you make a bigger ass out of yourself.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


We do. Nearly all of those warm bodies require 6 years of education and training. That's why you cant be one.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



kinda silly to have such requirements for so menial a job, I agree.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



 You said there was a glut. Its on you to prove that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> ood idea. You don't need college to study for a bar exam anyway; this country did fine with self-educated professionals for over 150 years. So did Wall Street and all the big corporations. Why should the Fed train a company's employees for them? Conservatives like to make lots of noise all about 'free enterprise', yet demand taxpayers train and educate their workers. It's hypocrisy and bullshit. Companies did just fine with hiring people with liberal arts degrees and training them. John D. took a few business school courses in accounting and regular high school. Walter Chrysler learned engineering working as a blacksmith on a railroad shop floor.



When have the conservatives ever want government paying for anything?  We never promoted that, the left did.  We didn't steal loans from the banks and put it in governments hands, DumBama did.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


I smell jealousy.


----------



## Staidhup (Feb 7, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...



For starters how about the government expanding vocational training program options instead of the myth that a formal high school education is the ticket to ride? Teach a man or woman to fish instead of giving them a fish. Historically proven to yield better results.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Teachers, lawyers, doctors, IT, plumbers, mechanics are what we want and are needed. What is not needed are gluts of Womens Studies majors who are $100ks in debt hoping they can get a piece of the Gender Tendencies in Pakistan program.



Exactly.  This is before Covid, but makes the point of my previous career.  Industry can't find enough drivers.  









						Walmart to hire hundreds of truck drivers, raise salary to nearly $90,000
					

Walmart has announced it will hire “hundreds” of truck drivers and raise driver pay in 2019. Last year, the company saw same-store comp sales hit three percent, “which is leading …




					fox8.com


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> I smell jealousy.



I may be right. I suppose I am resentful of the exorbitant pay and benefits teachers receive for such "soft" employment.


----------



## jknowgood (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Staidhup said:


> For starters how about the government expanding vocational training program options instead of the myth that a formal high school education is the ticket to ride? Teach a man or woman to fish instead of giving them a fish. Historically proven to yield better results.



WTF does your first sentence have to do with your second sentence? 

BTW, vocational training programs are extremely robust. You come off as someone who is just anti education, likely because you have none.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

jknowgood said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



Yep, I could not agree more. Both need to STFU.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

jknowgood said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



I wasn't OK with it. Now what?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

Staidhup said:


> For starters how about the government expanding vocational training program options instead of the myth that a formal high school education is the ticket to ride? Teach a man or woman to fish instead of giving them a fish. Historically proven to yield better results.



Everybody wants to sit behind a desk.  A lot of people won't get an advanced education only to work with their hands. 

If I was young today and wanted to get a white collar job, I'd continue living at home for two or three years, get a full time job working as many hours as possible.  Save all that money during those years, and then go to college.  There is no law that states you must go to college right after graduating high school. 

Then I'd be able to pay for college with my own personal check, continue to work part-time during the school year, full time when I'm out of class, and by the time I'd graduate, the school will be paid off totally.  At worst, I may have to take a very small loan to payoff the rest.   

Most kids don't know WTF they want to go for in college.  Working a few years before going would likely give them experience and time to think about what profession they'd like to be in.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> > For starters how about the government expanding vocational training program options instead of the myth that a formal high school education is the ticket to ride? Teach a man or woman to fish instead of giving them a fish. Historically proven to yield better results.
> ...



 Many people know exactly what they want to be.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 7, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> I paid for my children's secondary education in full. It was painful. And now I have to pay for other kids too, I see.
> 
> I guess I should have let my kids take taxpayer-funded loans instead.
> 
> $50k for a doctorate in Gender Studies for a student who got C's and will become an activist and/or politician. Isn't that wonderful.



I'm just curious how many "Gender Studies" majors you think are out there, exactly. 

Here is is again... the list of top college majors for degrees given out. 

Here's a list of the top ten college majors...  Gender studies isn't anywhere on the list. 

Most of them are actually career field related. 









						Top 10 College Majors
					

These 10 college majors offer unique challenges and develop skill sets applicable to many careers.




					www.princetonreview.com


----------



## MisterBeale (Feb 7, 2021)




----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> A better way is let them payoff their own debt like my niece and nephew just did. HTF are these people supposed to learn anything by being bailed out when they make a mistake? I understand the Democrat party is the party of irresponsible people, but making more irresponsible people certainly won't help this nation one bit.



Except they didn't make a mistake.  They did exactly what our system expected them to do... go to college to get the skills required for the modern workplace.  

Except thanks to Trump Plague and Trump Recession, those jobs aren't out there.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Many people know exactly what they want to be.



Not the kids I've talked to.  My nephews ex-wife went to college and asked them what she should be.  They told her take up advertising.  She's working at a bank processing loans today.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Many people know exactly what they want to be.
> ...



Well then that settles it. Your nephews ex-wife proves the point.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Except they didn't make a mistake. They did exactly what our system expected them to do... go to college to get the skills required for the modern workplace.
> 
> Except thanks to Trump Plague and Trump Recession, those jobs aren't out there.



You must have not read my earlier post.  There is no law that says if you go to college, you must do so right after high school.  Live at home, work full time for a few years, save all that money and pay cash for your education.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 7, 2021)

I was well into my forties before finishing the pay-off of my college loans-------will I get some back?     huh?   
I was-----as my son calls it SARDONICALLY ----extremely  THRIFTY.    ------the poor kid


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Well then that settles it. Your nephews ex-wife proves the point.



Actually she's the epitome of what I've seen of younger people who went to college.  What do I go for is the biggest question they have.  If you're working for a couple of years, you learn a lot of things.  You might run into something you never thought of at the age of 18.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Well then that settles it. Your nephews ex-wife proves the point.
> ...



 You need to get out.


----------



## jknowgood (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > A better way is let them payoff their own debt like my niece and nephew just did. HTF are these people supposed to learn anything by being bailed out when they make a mistake? I understand the Democrat party is the party of irresponsible people, but making more irresponsible people certainly won't help this nation one bit.
> ...


Ole Joe is making sure they ain't coming back and getting rid of thousands of good jobs in his first day. Oh and ole Joe owns the China plague and hasn't a clue what to do.




Another campaign promise broke, what a liar.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You must have not read my earlier post. There is no law that says if you go to college, you must do so right after high school. Live at home, work full time for a few years, save all that money and pay cash for your education.



Um, yeah... Guy, it's a lot harder to start up college after you've started a career doing something else.   Sadly, the ideal time to go to college actually is in your late teens, early 20's.    Simply put, the human brain is less inclined towards learning in your thirties or forties.  









						Survey reveals why it's so hard for adults to go back to college
					

A new survey from the Nashville Chamber illuminates challenges local workers face in higher education.



					www.tennessean.com
				












						How much more difficult is it to go back to college at an older age?
					

Answer (1 of 8): It is doable, but it requires a lot of efforts.  A few of my friends went back to school after passing 35. One of the biggest problems is the discipline. When you are young (and maybe single), you have not likely had any other life and habits than being a student, so you are alre...




					www.quora.com
				





The system I would do... Everyone has to do two years of National Service.  If your performance at National Service was good, then you get a free ride in College for four years.


----------



## McRib (Feb 7, 2021)

[


Jim H - VA USA said:


> I paid for my children's secondary education in full.  It was painful.  And now I have to pay for other kids too, I see.
> 
> I guess I should have let my kids take taxpayer-funded loans instead.
> 
> $50k for a doctorate in Gender Studies for a student who got C's and will become an activist and/or politician. Isn't that wonderful.



LOL, there is only one American soldier in your picture, I think the others are Brits.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 7, 2021)

jknowgood said:


> Ole Joe is making sure they ain't coming back and getting rid of thousands of good jobs in his first day. Oh and ole Joe owns the China plague and hasn't a clue what to do.



Polluting the environment isn't a "Good Job".  

We know how this goes, buddy.  YOu'll spend the next year whining Biden didn't fix Trump's fuckups fast enough... and then when he does, you'll claim it was nothing to do with him and move on to some bullshit social issue. 

"Hey, the economy is pretty good and no one has died of Covid in years!" 

"Never mind that... There's a Dude in a dress, and he wants to use the same bathroom as your daughter!!!"


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, yeah... Guy, it's a lot harder to start up college after you've started a career doing something else. Sadly, the ideal time to go to college actually is in your late teens, early 20's. Simply put, the human brain is less inclined towards learning in your thirties or forties.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And government is still paying for it.  I didn't say stay at home until your 30's or 40's, I said stay home a couple of years.  You won't be any less sharp starting college at the age of 21 or 22.  You can continue to work part-time during school, and full-time when there are no classes.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> "Never mind that... There's a Dude in a dress, and he wants to use the same bathroom as your daughter!!!"



He is also competing against your daughter in school athletics which could rob her of a trophy she rightfully deserved, or worse yet a college scholarship since we're on the subject.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 7, 2021)

There is no Executive Order doing this. And none I know of being proposed.'
'
Straw man much?


----------



## MarathonMike (Feb 7, 2021)

Shelzin said:


> I have zero problem with canceling student debt. Assuming of course its' on the colleges to take the hit, not the government paying off the loan. It is after all partly the colleges fault for offering something it knows damn well is useless.


That is what I've been advocating. Student debt relief funded 100% by the Colleges. I would exclude science and math related degrees as they are highly marketable. If you can't get a job with an engineering or bio-chemistry degree, that's on you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

Lesh said:


> There is no Executive Order doing this. And none I know of being proposed.'
> '
> Straw man much?



From the OP: 

*Can a president cancel student loan debt?*

Warren and Schumer say that student loan cancellation will stimulate the economy, reduce disparity, increase family formation, encourage new businesses, improve retirement savings, spur homebuying, and help relieve a generation of borrowers from crushing consumer debt. Earlier this week, Warren tweeted: “Canceling student loan debt would immediately put money in the pockets of millions of Americans. It would help dig our economy out of this crisis. And we don’t have to wait for Congress: *the Biden-Harris administration can get it done with their executive authority.”*


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> That is what I've been advocating. Student debt relief funded 100% by the Colleges. I would exclude science and math related degrees as they are highly marketable. If you can't get a job with an engineering or bio-chemistry degree, that's on you.


*ponders*

You'd really have to nail down "Science" as a definition, as there are a great many courses that colleges would consider them a branch of science of phycology.  You can get a PHD in "Women's Studies" as an example...


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And government is still paying for it. I didn't say stay at home until your 30's or 40's, I said stay home a couple of years. You won't be any less sharp starting college at the age of 21 or 22. You can continue to work part-time during school, and full-time when there are no classes.



yeah, you make it sound like you never went to college, and it shows.  

Back in the 1980's, I worked my way through college.  The National Guard picked up my tuition, but I still had to pay for everything else working two minimum wage jobs.   And this was back in the 1980's, when the minimum wage was actually worth a lot more than it is now relative to inflation.


----------



## jknowgood (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> > Ole Joe is making sure they ain't coming back and getting rid of thousands of good jobs in his first day. Oh and ole Joe owns the China plague and hasn't a clue what to do.
> ...


Lol, has nothing to do with polluting the environment. Buffet ownes the railroads that transport the oil. He is a huge democrat donor. Also 18 wheelers will be transporting the oil now. The pipeline is more environmentally sound than the alternatives, ole Joe has been bought again!


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> He is also competing against your daughter in school athletics which could rob her of a trophy she rightfully deserved, or worse yet a college scholarship since we're on the subject.



Everyone gets free college.  Problem solved.  

Frankly, I've never understood this bizarre thing of making girls compete in sports no one actually wants to watch to get  money for college. 

If you got rid of Title IX and just let the colleges do sports for money, you'd be amazed how fast those scholarships would dry up.  

Instead, you have the bizarre thing of the Varsity Blues Mom faking a Rowing Team Resume for her daughter, and getting into college for it.  Well, it wasn't like anyone was going to check.   No one watches those sports.  

So what you have are dumb-as-stump athletes getting into the sports some people watch (Men's basketball and Football) and a bunch of other sports they give out scholarships and admissions for because the government makes them.


----------



## Jimmy_Chitwood (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Talk to text error sugar


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 7, 2021)

jknowgood said:


> Lol, has nothing to do with polluting the environment. Buffet ownes the railroads that transport the oil. He is a huge democrat donor. Also 18 wheelers will be transporting the oil now. The pipeline is more environmentally sound than the alternatives, ole Joe has been bought again!



Actually, it's really not, because one of those burst, the water table gets polluted for decades.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> And this was back in the 1980's, when the minimum wage was actually worth a lot more than it is now relative to inflation.


That's true.  Absolutely true.


----------



## Juicin (Feb 7, 2021)

What a shit fucking headline

Biden isn't doing this go fuck yourself OP


----------



## Juicin (Feb 7, 2021)

jknowgood said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > jknowgood said:
> ...



Why the fuck would an american nationlaist care about canadian oil sludge

let those fucking canadians ship it to their own coast and deal with it there. Not drag that fucking toxic sludge across the heartland

Fuck you retard.

"bend me over capital what is clean water and why would i care"

Wanna be nationalists like you should be hung. The worst. Just a pleb who doesn't know his place


----------



## jknowgood (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, has nothing to do with polluting the environment. Buffet ownes the railroads that transport the oil. He is a huge democrat donor. Also 18 wheelers will be transporting the oil now. The pipeline is more environmentally sound than the alternatives, ole Joe has been bought again!
> ...


Train wreck with millions of barrels will do the same. There are thousands of miles of lines already. They do well.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Feb 7, 2021)

What happened to the Constitutional prohibition against impairment of contracts?


----------



## MarathonMike (Feb 7, 2021)

Shelzin said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> > That is what I've been advocating. Student debt relief funded 100% by the Colleges. I would exclude science and math related degrees as they are highly marketable. If you can't get a job with an engineering or bio-chemistry degree, that's on you.
> ...


True. I would make the distinction between "hard sciences" and "social sciences". Women's studies would clearly be in the social sciences group.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Feb 7, 2021)

odanny said:


> [
> 
> 
> Jim H - VA USA said:
> ...


It's not my picture; it's a meme from the interwebs.

And so what. It makes a great point, and Brits are our allies.

Here is one of my pictures...


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> yeah, you make it sound like you never went to college, and it shows.
> 
> Back in the 1980's, I worked my way through college. The National Guard picked up my tuition, but I still had to pay for everything else working two minimum wage jobs. And this was back in the 1980's, when the minimum wage was actually worth a lot more than it is now relative to inflation.



And there is nothing wrong with that.  If you served, then you earned that aid in tuition. If you got even more by joining the military full-time, good on you.  But these kids don't understand the responsibility of finances, and government giving them a free ride isn't going to help them in that area either.  They pick a study without looking at the want ads to see if there is a demand in that field of work, party for two, four or more years running up a huge debt, didn't work the entire time, and then cry about having to pay it off.  

No, I didn't go to college, but my niece and nephew did.  My niece took up biology, she's still waiting tables today.  My nephew was already working part-time, and decided to get into a profession in that company he was working for, ended up with a Masters degree, and is still working today.  But.......my sister, her ex, and both kids had a lot of debt to payoff.  My nephew is way ahead because he was working when he decided a field of work.


----------



## wamose (Feb 7, 2021)

Student loan forgiveness is about as unfair as anything could be. Another Democrat fuck up, right there with open borders and sanctuary cities.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

jknowgood said:


> rain wreck with millions of barrels will do the same. There are thousands of miles of lines already. They do well.



Irrelevant.  Who owns the trains that are going to be transporting that oil across our country?  Warren Buffet.  Who contributes big bucks to the Democrat party, and likely to Joe Biden?  You guessed it.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> Shelzin said:
> 
> 
> > MarathonMike said:
> ...


Then again... If it's the College itself taking the hit...  You can bet your sweet ass that phycology would no longer be considered a "Science" anymore.  Even if it *could* be.   I believe the implementation on how the work is applied is what makes it a science, not the foundation of the topic itself.  Money makes a for profit organization a hypocrite faster than anything else I've noticed.

So... Yeah.   I think what you propose wouldn't be so bad.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

wamose said:


> Student loan forgiveness is about as unfair as anything could be. Another Democrat fuck up, right there with open borders and sanctuary cities.



Correct, and what's next, home mortgage forgiveness?  Auto loans on electric cars?  This is a country 28 trillion in debt, and dementia Joe is about to add another 2 trillion.


----------



## Jim H - VA USA (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Jim H - VA USA said:
> 
> 
> > I paid for my children's secondary education in full. It was painful. And now I have to pay for other kids too, I see.
> ...


You don't even understand your own links.  That is not a list of the most popular majors; it is a list of what that website thinks are the best majors.

And you are right, Gender Studies, just an example I came up with off the top of my head, is not even on this list.

So thanks for backing up my point about wasting $50k on each of those majors.

For the record, I have an engineering degree. I have one child getting a Computer Science degree soon, and another who is has an Associate's degree and welding certification and employed as a welder.

You?

PS:








						Cultural & Gender Studies | Data USA
					

The locations with the highest concentration of Cultural & Gender Studies degree recipients are Columbia, MO, Los Angeles, CA, and New York, NY. The locations with a relatively high number of Cultural & Gender Studies degree recipients are Columbia, MO, Brunswick, ME, and Middletown, CT. The...




					datausa.io


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Everyone gets free college. Problem solved.
> 
> Frankly, I've never understood this bizarre thing of making girls compete in sports no one actually wants to watch to get money for college.
> 
> ...



College is an investment, and the federal government should not be funding investments.  You want taxpayers to send somebody to school to get a law degree, then when he's making the big bucks, charges that taxpayer who funded his or her education $250.00 an hour for their services.  Sorry, there is nothing equitable about that.  

Even if there is no college scholarship, people who are into sports compete to win.  They are striving to be the best and put a lot of work into it.  There is no reason to take that pride away from them because of some half-a-sissy in a dress is so Fd up in the head he actually thinks he's a girl.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > I smell jealousy.
> ...


Then go be a teacher. Since it is so easy and lucrative. But you will need a skill other than shitting on things. So you may not be qualified.


----------



## MarathonMike (Feb 7, 2021)

Shelzin said:


> Then again... If it's the College itself taking the hit... You can bet your sweet ass that phycology would no longer be considered a "Science" anymore. Even if it *could* be. I believe the implementation on how the work is applied is what makes it a science, not the foundation of the topic itself. Money makes a for profit organization a hypocrite faster than anything else I've noticed.
> 
> So... Yeah. I think what you propose wouldn't be so bad.


In a logical world, it would be reasonable for colleges (NOT the government) to "discount" less marketable degrees. But since our world is not logical, we both know my proposal would go nowhere.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> In a logical world, it would be reasonable for colleges (NOT the government) to "discount" less marketable degrees. But since our world is not logical, we both know my proposal would go nowhere.


Yep.


----------



## Missouri_Mike (Feb 7, 2021)

I’m old enough to remember the left telling me presidents can’t spend money on things like border protection without congress.

wonder what’s different this time?


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

Staidhup said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



For starters, how about companies paying for their training? Teach a conservative to actually pay his own way insread of whining about how the government should give hi free stuff and he will get better results.

A high school education is more than adequate for the vast majority of jobs created in the last 50 years. Just because some company wants a 4 year degree for its part time receptionist job opening in the lobby doesn't mean its actually a real necessity.


----------



## 22lcidw (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, has nothing to do with polluting the environment. Buffet ownes the railroads that transport the oil. He is a huge democrat donor. Also 18 wheelers will be transporting the oil now. The pipeline is more environmentally sound than the alternatives, ole Joe has been bought again!
> ...


U be a bullshit artist. Ooohhh,,,,the water table.. I would support freedom fighters blowing up the trains. Its all fun. Against the wealthy who control us and then you back them up. Three times more in cost to transport the oil.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

Missouri_Mike said:


> I’m old enough to remember the left telling me presidents can’t spend money on things like border protection without congress.
> 
> wonder what’s different this time?


I remember a time in school when they said only an act of Congress can involve us in a war.  And that is why Vietnam was a "conflict" and not a war.

Weird how we keep having conflicts because Congress isn't doing it's job, and allowing presidents to create war where none are supposed to exist.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 7, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > He is also competing against your daughter in school athletics which could rob her of a trophy she rightfully deserved, or worse yet a college scholarship since we're on the subject.
> ...



First of all, nothing is "free". That being said, I am open to government-funded or government-assisted college and technical education. However, there needs to be limits and accountability on the recipients receiving funds for college. The current system where students and their parents had access to large debt funding in the name of college education got us into this mess. Moving forward, if you need assistance, there should be a cap. Maybe that cap "limits" one to state and local college. The student should be pursuing an education that will yield skills to be met in the job market so that shortages can be addressed and the student can pay back the loan in a reasonable time frame or otherwise eliminate the need for irresponsible bailouts. Maybe also require the student to serve 5 years in the public sector in areas where skills sets are needed such as IT or healthcare.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Not at all.  A mortgage is guaranteed by the real property that backs it.



lol complete rubbish. Loans made based on the imaginary 'equity' of bubble prices aren't 'guaranteed by real property'. That's why bubbles burst, especially when ' real property' has to be marked to market when the bubbles burst. According to your dumb fantasy, nobody lost money in market crashes, cuz the 'real property' was always valued correctly., which of course is a lie.





> .  There is no free lunch.



Unless you're a corporate shareholder hiding your assets behind limited liability scams and getting protected by bankruptcy laws.


----------



## DudleySmith (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> wamose said:
> 
> 
> > Student loan forgiveness is about as unfair as anything could be. Another Democrat fuck up, right there with open borders and sanctuary cities.
> ...



That has been the case in the last four bubbles already. Why do you think it hasn't? The Feds propped up your housing values several times. No 'conservatives' stood up and refused it and insisted on paying all they borrowed back. They let the government eat all that bad paper. They will after this bubble busts, too.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

Missouri_Mike said:


> I’m old enough to remember the left telling me presidents can’t spend money on things like border protection without congress.
> 
> wonder what’s different this time?


What do you mean? Trump did it anyway. So maybe we should ask YOU what is "different" this time, since you are the one complaining about it. What's the matter? You don't like playing by the new rules, all of the sudden?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > I smell jealousy.
> ...



Exorbitant pay and benefits?  WTF is "soft" employment?   Where did you get such a silly idea?


----------



## WTH_Progs? (Feb 7, 2021)

One of their own is Eric Swallows I mean Eric Swallowswell I mean Eric Swalwell has this need.  He went to school well over his head 15 years ago to become a POLITICIAN, and apparently he's been broke since.

Sure he's well over-paid, but it doesn't help he has a need for the best gadgets, vacations, first class seats & cocaine.  But in PROG, he and those like him just feel it's too much a burden to be responsible for their own, let the people bail you out.

Of course PROGS are too STUPID to know all of this is passed down to the common citizen, results in inflation & teaches us you're not responsible for your actions. They've been convinced the filthy rich pay for this crap, but you know, they claim to be smart too.


----------



## WTH_Progs? (Feb 7, 2021)

I actually approve the Democrats for doing this.

I didn't do well at all in High School, but this is America and USC was a fucking blast.  I suppose I could have saved some money to attend college, worked part-time and/or done well in grade school, but High School was a blast too.   I was captain our cheerleading squad, all men.

I graduated with a 2.8 and became a teacher, but that sucked & I chose the wrong students to trust. I ended up as a bartender which is really good tips & most under the table.  But I have expensive tastes, habits & dependencies, so I've only managed to pay down the loan 8K since I went into debt 115K in 2009 toward a degree in Socialism.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



As over paid as teachers are it would be a significant cut from what I earn. Plus, I could never stand to have so much time off. I am a driven personality. You need to be real laid back to deal with all that idle time.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Exorbitant pay and benefits


agree


Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> "soft" employment


agree


Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> such a silly idea


also agree, no reason for such palatial benefits and sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much time off


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Exorbitant pay and benefits
> ...



Palatial benefits?  You really should lay off the drugs and alcohol while posting.  BTW, I guess you are another know-it-all talking about "time off". 

As a teacher, a typical day began with a 45 minute commute to work.  I still arrived 45 minutes to an hour before the students.  I normally did my planning for the next day after school and then coached sports, the pay for which was below minimum wage because it was paid by the season.  Another 45 minute commute, and I would often get home by 7 pm if I didn't have a game to coach.  After dinner, 2-3 hours grading homework was required.  Then, it was crawl off to bed so I could do it all again the next day.

Summers we were required to do 80 hours in-service training at our school and if the district required, even more.  Any other time I was not working, I was usually looking for another job because schools like those fresh young things straight out of college because they could hire two of them for my meager paycheck,  That should give you an idea how bad the starting pay was.

Got any other misconceptions of what a teacher's day was like?  I did it for 19 years and was an assistant principal almost 2 years.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Palatial benefits?  You really should lay off the drugs and alcohol while posting.  BTW, I guess you are another know-it-all talking about "time off".
> 
> As a teacher, a typical day began with a 45 minute commute to work.  I still arrived 45 minutes to an hour before the students.  I normally did my planning for the next day after school and then coached sports, the pay for which was below minimum wage because it was paid by the season.  Another 45 minute commute, and I would often get home by 7 pm if I didn't have a game to coach.  After dinner, 2-3 hours grading homework was required.  Then, it was crawl off to bed so I could do it all again the next day.
> 
> ...


Well... Hello.

What do you think about "No Child Left Behind" and "Every Child Succeeds"


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 7, 2021)

Shelzin said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Palatial benefits?  You really should lay off the drugs and alcohol while posting.  BTW, I guess you are another know-it-all talking about "time off".
> ...



Those programs should be controlled at the local level and should have never been implemented.  Next question!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Shelzin said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Then why weren't they? I mean... The States had 100+ years to do it.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Those programs should be controlled at the local level and should have never been implemented.  Next question!


Thank you.

*Edit*: Sorry about not raising my hand first.  It's been a while.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Then why weren't they? I mean... The States had 100+ years to do it.


They were.   However some states were falling behind.  Mainly ones with very large populations in small areas.  Had to do SOMETHING about that.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



OMG, what horse shit. "a typical day began with a 45 minute commute to work" 

Are you freakin' serious? This proves what a joke you are. Do you think none works don't commute? Seriously? 

Honest, this entire post shows how freakin SPOILED teachers are. You have no clue what a real worker goes though. 

80 hours? 80 freakin hours? For the entire summer and you have the nerve to even utter this? 

You coach sports is a choice and I know of no one with such a cushy part time job. And you have no commute to get to this job.
BTW, teachers tend to be horrible coaches. They would never be hired as coaches in club sports. This is yet another teacher perk.  

Honest, I "get" that you don't get it. Trust me, you have it better than about anyone as a teacher. 

And teh benefits are TOTALLY out of whack for such a crappy job. You could NEVER get such benefits in the private sector. 

Dude, you TOTALLY and COMPLETELY SPOILED. So much so that you do not even know it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


Then go get a job as a teacher and stop your embarrassing, jealous crybabying, ya dick.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 7, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



for someone like me it's way too big a pay cut, even given how over paid they are
Plus, like I said, I have far too much drive to settle for being a school teacher.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> for someone like me it's way too big a pay cut, even given how over paid they are
> Plus, like I said, I have far too much drive to settle for being a school teacher.


Do you really think people here believe that?


----------



## candycorn (Feb 7, 2021)

Staidhup said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...



Fuck off.  

First we subsidized these guys...then we bailed them out twice.  And we're still having to pay for food.  

As I said...fuck off.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> for someone like me it's way too big a pay cut, even given how over paid they are


My don't we think a lot of our selves huh?


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 7, 2021)

candycorn said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Of course we have to pay for food.  If you didn't have to pay for food, everyone would got take all the food they could, and everyone else would starve. 

We saw this in Venezuela.  Giving away food for free is the best, quickest, and fastest way to result in mass starvation.

Because as fast as you can blink, people will take the food, and sell it.  Gangs quickly formed, and started carting the food to the border with Columbia and sold it on the black market for a huge profit.

As for subsidizing, I agree.  The universal conservative position is to not subsidize anything.

I was against it when Obama did it.  I was in favor of cutting subsidies under Bush.  And I was against subsidies under Trump.


----------



## candycorn (Feb 7, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Staidhup said:
> ...



Yes, we paid the farmers in the form of subsidies.
Then we paid them again in the first round of bail outs
Then we paid them again in the second round of bail outs
Then we pay them again when we buy the food they harvest.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

candycorn said:


> Yes, we paid the farmers in the form of subsidies.
> Then we paid them again in the first round of bail outs
> Then we paid them again in the second round of bail outs
> Then we pay them again when we buy the food they harvest.



And farm subsidies only started when Trump took office?


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 7, 2021)

When I was in high school, I went to an upper middle class school, rated one of the best in the central Ohio area.

One day I was invited to tour a private school in the area.  At the time I was in 11th Grade.  I was around 8th graders at the private school.   What I found was that those 8th graders were using the exact same study material that I was using in 11th grade.

A few years later I got to thinking about that, and started looking up the how much money did each school system spend on students.

I looked up three school systems.  The private school, the middle class school I went to, and the inner city school.

The inner city spent more money per student by a fairly large margin.
The middle class school spent less, by about 25%.
And the school that spent the least amount of money per student, was the private school.  They spent almost 50% of as much money on students, as the inner city school.

Then I looked up test results, and academic performance.

The results were the exact opposite.  The school that spent the least amount of money on students, had the highest test results in nearly every academic area.  The school that spent the most, had the worst possible results. The school that spent the least, had the best results.

Yet in spite of this, teachers at public schools are paid more, for significantly worse academic results.

And even then, teacher at privart schools are significantly happier with their jobs, than teachers at public schools.   They are happier while earning less money, and achieving better educational results.

So why is that?






This is why.  

So in my opinion public school teachers are in fact over paid for the results they get.


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 7, 2021)

candycorn said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



As I said..... conservatives are against all bailouts.  All.  Meaning... all.  That is why the tea party was formed, was to oppose bailouts.

But yes still have to pay for food when you buy.  Always.  Whether you have a bailout or not, giving away food for free is a great way to bankrupt society and have mass starvation.  Learn from Venezuelan refugees.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> I looked up three school systems. The private school, the middle class school I went to, and the inner city school.
> 
> The inner city spent more money per student by a fairly large margin.
> The middle class school spent less, by about 25%.
> And the school that spent the least amount of money per student, was the private school. They spent almost 50% of as much money on students, as the inner city school.



I went to a private Catholic school in my primary education years.  The small school was run by Sister Dennis.  If you had a problem with your teacher, you went to Sister Dennis.  If you were late for class, the teacher sent you to Sister Dennis.  If a light bulb was burned out in one of the hallways, you reported it to Sister Dennis.  She would actually get on a ladder and change it herself.  Sister Dennis handled any and all problems.  

We didn't have lockers, we didn't change classes, we didn't have a cafeteria,  we didn't have school buses.   During the warmer months when it got hot, the nun or teacher would open up a window, and if we were lucky, the boys would be allowed to take off their tie.  

When the school needed money beyond what parishioners could fund, we had bake sales, rummage sales, went house to house and sold cookies.  

Later I attended a public school, and my Lord, what a difference.  Multiple school buses, football fields, football teams, air conditioning, a cafeteria, a principal, assistant principal, secretaries, maintenance people, several counselors, all doing the same job Sister Dennis used to do all by herself.    




Andylusion said:


> This is why.
> 
> So in my opinion public school teachers are in fact over paid for the results they get.



If you are to lay the onus on teachers alone.  My experience is if the parent(s)  doesn't care about their child's education, all the best teachers in the country won't make a difference in a failing student.


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## Turtlesoup (Feb 7, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


Because, the taxpayers are tired of picking up the tab for your lazy ass non-productive asses.   Just a thought.   You take out the loan, you pay it back dead beat.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...



I assume that was supposed to be in English.  Around here, no one drives that far unless they work in Louisville, and no one in their right mind works there.  Have you ever commuted across a time zone change?  I did that every day for three years.  I gave you a ball-park figure.  To Louisville, it was 90 minutes each way.  I had to work there because everyone else was laid off due to budget cuts.

When is summer?  For a teacher, it usually started the 2nd week of June and by mid-August you were back at work.  How many hourly workers get paid vacation?  Teachers get NOTHING.  It is all unpaid.  How many hourly workers work 10-12 hours per day and get paid for 7.5? How many hourly workers are required to have a Master's degree and the accompanying student loans?

When I was coaching, it usually started a half hour after school.  If we had games, they sometimes lasted until 10pm.  The season lasted about 10 weeks, with two to three games per week, plus practice every day.  My compensation?  About $3000, which was as a head coach. which I did for 7 years.  I would make more working with my future daughter-in-law at McDonald's!  In one of my school districts, all coaches and administrators were required to have a commercial chauffer's license, because you drove your own bus!  Guess how much you were paid for that?  No a freakin' penny!

Benefits?  I paid my own benefits with the exception of the base medical coverage.  My wife worked for a cable company and had better medical coverage than me.  Our retirement was 100% self-funded and made ineligible for social security and disability.  How is that a good deal?

I am not spoiled.  You just don't know the facts because you see NYC, Chicago, and LA sucking up all of air time on CNN and MSNBC so you don't know about 97% of us would "kill" for what they have.  Our states cannot afford it.  The most money I ever made as a teacher was about $55K.  I lost that job due to "budget cuts", which is a nice way of saying, if you stay you get tenure, so hit the road!


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## Turtlesoup (Feb 7, 2021)

Desperado said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...


they are the ones giving kickbacks to warren and Omar who are pushing for taxpayers to pay back loans of the deadbeat college kids......


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## Andylusion (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > I looked up three school systems. The private school, the middle class school I went to, and the inner city school.
> ...



No, I don't lay the onus on teachers alone.  But in any other context, would you pay more for less?

Just think about it logically, in any other context, any other at all, would you pay more money... for less product and service?

If you had two gas stations, and one was selling for $2/gallon, and the other was $3/gallon, would you go to the more expensive gas station?   If you had two burger joints selling identical burgers, and one was $5, and the other $15, would you pay $15 for an identical burger to the $5 burger?

No.

There are a ton of aspect that are why public schools are garbage, that do not include just teachers... but teachers are actually very much part of the problem, because they support the unions that oppose any of the reforms that would improve the results.

**


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 7, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...



I thought that also, until I took a $25,000 pay cut to be a teacher.  Most people would not last through lunch despite having all that drive.  My money says you would be one crying for Momma the first time some little snot-nosed run called your bluff.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 7, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> When I was in high school, I went to an upper middle class school, rated one of the best in the central Ohio area.
> 
> One day I was invited to tour a private school in the area.  At the time I was in 11th Grade.  I was around 8th graders at the private school.   What I found was that those 8th graders were using the exact same study material that I was using in 11th grade.
> 
> ...



Ever lead a horse to water?  Can you make them drink?


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## Andylusion (Feb 7, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > When I was in high school, I went to an upper middle class school, rated one of the best in the central Ohio area.
> ...



Well you can't when the horse things he's entitled to a drink for free, and that you can't kick him out of the drinking area, because people won't let the horse be expelled.

The bottom line is, the current system needs changed, and if teachers unions won't allow the changes needed to either lower the cost of education to the level of the education they are providing... then they need abolished completely.

I would privatize the entire education system.


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## candycorn (Feb 7, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, we paid the farmers in the form of subsidies.
> ...


No.  But the bailouts did.


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## candycorn (Feb 7, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Andylusion said:
> ...



But Conservatives are all for the guy who both caused the need for the bailouts and authorized the bailouts themselves?  Strange....

That is what the subsidies and bail outs did..paid for the food.  Right?  Or did they just pocket the money in return for voting for your blob?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 7, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Andylusion said:
> ...



My Mom and Dad were products of the Great Depression.  They had little education back then.  My aunts and uncles didn't graduate high school until after I came along and my Dad would celebrate his 100th birthday tomorrow had he lived.  What do you with the poor kids like me?  I joined the military out of high school and now have a BA and and MEd thanks to the GI Bill.  My "retirement" job is a defense contractor for the Army.  Your plan just guarantees your car will get stripped or stolen by those you consider unworthy of a public education.  

Those public educations suck so badly!  My youngest and I both attended college on ROTC scholarships.  She has a biology degree and is a Captain on the staff of the 101st Airborne.  My son was military, as was my daughter-in-law.  My oldest works in an optical shop and cares for my grandson who has cancer.  She did run a commercial finance company office.My son-in-law is a crash crewman with the Air National Guard and a professional firefighter full time at a military base and part time for the major city as a substitute.  Every one of those graduated from public schools.  My oldest daughter, son, and daughter-in-law all attended the high school where I taught. Every one of those graduated from public schools.

Let's hear your plan, because all I see is bitching and moaning.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 7, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> No, I don't lay the onus on teachers alone. But in any other context, would you pay more for less?
> 
> Just think about it logically, in any other context, any other at all, would you pay more money... for less product and service?
> 
> ...



I think the unions protect bad teachers too much, but to lay the blame on them for failed students is unfair.  Let me expand on that a little: 

Years ago I had a next door neighbor that bought a portable basketball hoop.  Before I knew it, I had a yard full of neighborhood kids there.  They played from the time they got home from school until past dark non-stop.  A few times I had to call the cops to get them to stop.  If I didn't, they would have played past 10:00 on a school night.  

The kids ranged from ages 6 through 17 from what I witnessed.  If they are out playing all hours of the night, HTF did they get their homework done?  How did they get ample sleep to be attentive in school the next day?  There was no possible way.  The biggest question is why were their parent(s) not out looking for them to drag them home and make sure they were prepared for the next day in class?  

So I stand by my point. The best teacher in the country can't teach a kid who's parents don't care about their education.


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## Shelzin (Feb 7, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Ever lead a horse to water?  Can you make them drink?


That's a fair point.

I believe, through my own experiences, that this is also a valid point:



> When I was in high school, I went to an upper middle class school, rated one of the best in the central Ohio area.
> 
> One day I was invited to tour a private school in the area. At the time I was in 11th Grade. I was around 8th graders at the private school. What I found was that those 8th graders were using the exact same study material that I was using in 11th grade.


I had the same kind of experience my senior year when I transferred from Iowa to Michigan.   I wasn't what you would call a from middle class family.  I always had a extreme interest in programming, and my classes reflected that even though I couldn't afford one.  But the school had some...  A room full of them.

Iowa:  
7th grade: Mandatory typing class... AWESOME.  I wanted it anyway.

8th grade: Spreadsheets...  Absolutely.  I have no idea how that would help me in life... But I wanted it.   WTF are they and how do they work?  I want to know.

10th grade: CAD...  Sign me up.  Unfortunately it was a bullshit class.  They didn't teach anything any kid couldn't figure out in a week of playing, so I just played with the program and taught myself.  Bored as hell for the next 8 weeks.  Easy A.  Disappointing.

11th grade: Programming .  FINALLY my junior year they made this class.   I was learning BASIC.  Print statements, values, loops, If statements...  That was awesome.  Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie.   Not enough people were interested in the Advanced BASIC class, so I talked them into letting me use the room during one of my study halls.  Give me the book and access to the computer room I'll teach myself.  Please and thank you.

Shit happened my senior year...  Moved to Michigan.

Computer programming class I, II, & III???? WHOOOOOO   Sign me up!

Guidance councilor:  How advanced would you say you are in computer programming?  Looking back I'm pretty sure when I said BASIC and those other classes she didn't know BASIC was a damn programming language.  Because we argued about putting me in II rather than III...  I promise, I'll catch up and figure it out.  III it is!

I get in there...   And you know what this highest computer programming class is doing?  They are teaching them how to make recipe cards in a recipe card already made fuck'n program!  This isn't PROGRAMMING it's fucking DATA ENTRY.  They have exactly zero programming courses.  This fuck'n school has so much more shit than my tiny ass one in Iowa, and I'm watching the COMPUTER PROGRAMMING teacher chicken peck with two fingers showing the class how to fuck'n enter data in their most advanced programming class.

If it wasn't for the amazingly friendly young women I wouldn't have lasted more than a week and went back to Iowa.  I can be a lot of things...  But I can't be BORED.   Trying to teach me as a senior things I learned as a freshmen in many of my classes.   I made it a quarter before I had move back or drop out of school... I couldn't take it.

And now...  Now my old school is just like that one in Michigan.   Fuck you Bush, Fuck you Obama.


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## Andylusion (Feb 8, 2021)

candycorn said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Not strange at all.  Any given politicians is not the sum of one single position.

Politicians have dozens of positions on dozens of policies and topics.

Trump was terrible on trade and terrible on government spending programs.
But he was fantastic at a dozen other factors that are extremely important to me, namely generally supporting pro-life positions, and being pro-Israel.  And other things too.

Equally, you have to remember, no one is voted for in a vacuum.

The alternative to Trump was much much worse.  By a wide margin.   Democrats celebrate evil, they celebrate infanticide, they celebrate chaos and riots, they celebrate attacking police, harming freedom of speech, and destruction of people's property, and open terrorism.

*That is what the subsidies and bail outs did..paid for the food.  Right?  Or did they just pocket the money in return for voting for your blob?*

Of course they pocket the money.  So you don't seem to understand how farm subsidies work, so I'll explain.

*Say you are Farmer Candy.  You run a Peanut Farm. (a bit fitting since most of your posts on this forum are nuts)*

The government has a subsidy for peanuts.  The subsidy is that you as a Peanut farmer are guaranteed $535 per ton of peanuts.

If the price of Peanuts on the market declines below $535, to say $435, then you get $100 per ton for your peanuts, in addition to the $435 market price.

As a result you end up making the same money you did the year before when it was $535 a ton.

But to the buyers, they still get the market price, which translates to roughly the same price at the store.

The subsidy doesn't offset the price at the store, because the people who make peanut butter, are still paying whatever the market price is.

The subsidy only goes to you the farmer.

A change in the price on the market can cause tens of millions in subsidy payments to farmers like you, while not showing up at all in the price at the store.

So the blunt answer is, it goes in the pockets of the farmers.

*There is only an indirect link between the prices you see at the store and the subsidy. *  That indirect link, is that without those subsidies, you being Farmer Candy, might decide to grow something other than peanuts.

You switching to a different crop.  That would reduce the supply of peanuts on the market, which would raise prices.  Those incremental increases in prices would eventually filter down into the price of peanut butter at the store being higher.

Not suggesting by any stretch that this justifies subsidies, only that this is the only indirect way that subsidies can over a long period of time, affect the price of products.

But back to your question... yes it goes into your pocket as Farmer Candy.  It does not go to the price of food on the shelf at the store.  The subsidy is a price guarantee to farmers, not consumers.

Again, I'm against all subsidies.  All of them.  Always have been.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > No, I don't lay the onus on teachers alone. But in any other context, would you pay more for less?
> ...


Studies show that the #1 factor in how well a kid does in life including  being educated...........is not the school that he/she goes to but WHO THEIR DAMN PARENTS ARE.    Show me a kid that can't handle basics like reading, writing, and math and I will show you its parents are failures as parents.


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## Andylusion (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > No, I don't lay the onus on teachers alone. But in any other context, would you pay more for less?
> ...



So all that you said is true.... however, there is an indirect relationship between teachers, and bad students.  

Again, it has to do with the teachers unions refusing to allow changes in the school system.

Why do kids themselves have no feeling that they need to succeed?

I would suggest to you, that a massive part of the reason is because they have been told all their lives, that they are entitled to an education, and that they can't be denied this right.

The people who promote that claim, for their own benefit, are the teachers unions, at the support of teachers, because it benefits teachers.

You don't see this in Japan.  In Japan, to even get into high school... not college... just high school... you have to pass rigorous entrance exams.   And if you don't pass the exam, then you simply don't go to high school.

And the students know this.  They know if they don't pass the exams, then their friends go off to high school, and they don't.

So the students have a huge incentive to succeed.

And the same is true of college in Japan.  There is no remedial classes in colleges in Japan. If you don't know the material, you simply don't go to college, and again you wave goodbye to your friends, while they go off, and you stay at home.

There is no "No child left behind" philosophy in other countries.  No they completely leave your butt behind.

In Finland, if you don't make the grade, they kick you out.  You go to a drop out school where you sit with all the other drop outs, and learn to do manual labor jobs.

The kids have a massive incentive to not be the loser that never sees his friends again, because he failed too many tests, and now goes to the loser school for people who can't make the grade.

Thus, few of them are staying out all night playing basket ball.

That's my point to you.  When you say it's bad students.. I say it's bad students because you have a bad system, and the biggest protectors of the system right now, are the Unions..... and the teachers support the Unions.

By the way... if you take those kids, and put them in a private school, they start acting like students from Japan.  They start caring about their grades, because they don't want to be the loser guy left behind.  Because in a private school, you don't keep up, you are out.


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## Andylusion (Feb 8, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Andylusion said:
> ...



That's true.   I do agree that there are some students that have such bad parenting, that there is absolutely nothing you can do.   Agree.

That said....  given that's the case... the people who should be the biggest proponents of forcing out all bad students, should be the Teachers and the Teachers Unions. 

But they are not.   Why are the Unions, and the Teachers, fighting so hard to keep students that will refuse to learn, in the school system? 

Money.  Job security.  Even though such students are nothing but a blight on the school system, and a complete waste of tax payer money, the Unions and the Teachers fight tooth and nail to keep those students in the schools.

All of those students should be expelled completely, and abandoned.  When they decide they want to not be stupid anymore, and actually want to be educated, then they can pay for their GED themselves.  Or they can join a private school, or a religious funded school.

So since the teachers, and the teachers unions are opposed to doing what is best for the rest of the students, and society.... then they are part of the problem.  You can't blame the students or the parents, when they are not in charge of the system that allows this to continue.  The people who are in the system, are the ones who should know better.


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## Andylusion (Feb 8, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



I've already given my plan.  Privatize the entire system.

My car has already been stripped and stolen by people who DID get a public education.  My house was ransacked by people who got a public education.   60% of all prison inmates have a high school public education, and 50% have college education at some level.

And even the 40% who don't have a high school education, that's because they stopped going, not because I deemed them unworthy.  They all had access to your precious utopian free public education AND WERE STILL CRIMINALS.

So spare me your false virtue signalling as if your theory works.  It does not.  The proof is all around us, that your system does not work.  So with all due respect.... all due respect.... STUFF IT.


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## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 LOL, when unable to address my point make it about me even though it has nothing to do with me. LOL


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 8, 2021)

jknowgood said:


> Train wreck with millions of barrels will do the same. There are thousands of miles of lines already. They do well.



Those lines don't go over a major aquifer like the Keystone one does. 

And, no, a rail car will not pollute nearly as much as a pipeline rupture would.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 8, 2021)

Jim H - VA USA said:


> And you are right, Gender Studies, just an example I came up with off the top of my head, is not even on this list.
> 
> So thanks for backing up my point about wasting $50k on each of those majors.



Except nobody is.  they are wasting 50K on degrees and there aren't the jobs there to pay them off.  That's the problem.   

The real problem is that we have too many jobs that require a bachelor's degree for jobs that don't really need one.   For instance, my background is in purchasing and procurement.   30 years ago, you really didn't need a degree to get into that field.   Today, you do, and I know a lot of buyers who won't get considered for jobs because the applicant tracking software they use to sort resumes won't even consider them.  



LeftofLeft said:


> First of all, nothing is "free". That being said, I am open to government-funded or government-assisted college and technical education. However, there needs to be limits and accountability on the recipients receiving funds for college. The current system where students and their parents had access to large debt funding in the name of college education got us into this mess.



No, stupid, what got us into this mess is big business demanding people have bachelor degrees for anything that pays above minimum wage.  

A lot of people aren't cut out for college and are kind of wasting their time going, but the system INSISTS they get a degree.  

then you have a scholarship system where the people who are paying are also paying for the Athletes.   This was one of the things that pissed me off when I went to college.  I didn't have to pay tuition, thanks to the Army, but I did have to pay for fees. The biggest ticket item on the fees?  Our wonderful Title IX required athletics programs where we were paying the tuition for mediocre student athletes.  



LeftofLeft said:


> The student should be pursuing an education that will yield skills to be met in the job market so that shortages can be addressed and the student can pay back the loan in a reasonable time frame or otherwise eliminate the need for irresponsible bailouts. Maybe also require the student to serve 5 years in the public sector in areas where skills sets are needed such as IT or healthcare.



Or maybe we should get rid of the requirement that you need a bachelor's degree for an entry level purchasing job.


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## Claudette (Feb 8, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Yup which means we tax payers will be footing the bill. Bush the elder did away with Fed college loans cause they weren't being paid back. Clinton reinstituted them and here we are. 

If you take the loan then YOU should be the one paying it back. Not the tax payers. More bullshit brought to you by a pack of imbeciles.


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## jknowgood (Feb 8, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> > Train wreck with millions of barrels will do the same. There are thousands of miles of lines already. They do well.
> ...


Yeah right.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 8, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Jim H - VA USA said:
> 
> 
> > And you are right, Gender Studies, just an example I came up with off the top of my head, is not even on this list.
> ...



Bachelors Degrees and Certificates are not a problem provided they are in an area for which there is market demand for those skills sets. What is so stupid about that?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

Claudette said:


> Yup which means we tax payers will be footing the bill. Bush the elder did away with Fed college loans cause they weren't being paid back. Clinton reinstituted them and here we are.
> 
> If you take the loan then YOU should be the one paying it back. Not the tax payers. More bullshit brought to you by a pack of imbeciles.



I thought it was DumBama that forced all school loans to be handled by the government.


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## Claudette (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> > Yup which means we tax payers will be footing the bill. Bush the elder did away with Fed college loans cause they weren't being paid back. Clinton reinstituted them and here we are.
> ...



I'm sure he did but Clinton is the one who reinstituted Fed loans after Bush the elder got rid of them.


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## Biff_Poindexter (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > No, I don't lay the onus on teachers alone. But in any other context, would you pay more for less?
> ...


Yup...sorta like police unions protect bad cops...

But I never see these union hating conservatives demonize police unions like they love to demonize teachers unions...

Probably due to the disdain conservatives have for public education and/or education in general.....


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> So all that you said is true.... however, there is an indirect relationship between teachers, and bad students.
> 
> Again, it has to do with the teachers unions refusing to allow changes in the school system.
> 
> ...



In my opinion kids will always be kids.  They need adults around to steer them in the proper direction.  I (like many kids) hated school.  My mother laughs until this day when she talks about us as children.  The first day she woke me up early in the morning for kindergarten, I asked her how old I had to be before I could quit school.  

My sister sent her two children to a private Catholic school.  She got a letter from the school about my niece.  It stated she was missing class and failing, and unless something is done immediately, she would be thrown out.  My sister got on her ass like flies on honey.  She grounded her, she was not allowed to leave the house for any recreational purposes.  She was even limited to phone and television usage.  My sister sat up with her every night to not only catch up on current studies, but to go back and learn what she missed while she was goofing off.  She ended up graduating with an A+.  

The difference between people like my sister and parents of public educated kids is that my sister was paying 12K a year for that education.  She had to write out checks and made sure she was going to get every dimes worth.  Public school parents?  Their involvement in their kids education stops the second they throw them on the bus.  It's not their problem, it's the schools problem.  The taxpayers are paying for it so why should they care?  

We both live in the same state, so we know how our schools are funded.  That should change.  I nor any of my tenants ever had kids in our school system, yet we are paying more to fund that public school than the woman down the street with four kids in the system.  Perhaps if people like myself got lower taxes for not having kids in the school system, and parents had to write a check to educate their kids, they would get much more involved in their child's education as my sister did.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Yup...sorta like police unions protect bad cops...
> 
> But I never see these union hating conservatives demonize police unions like they love to demonize teachers unions...
> 
> Probably due to the disdain conservatives have for public education and/or education in general.....



Correct, we don't like unions period, especially government unions.  But our backing of police officers is not because of the unions, it's because we see people like you demonize police when they do things you don't approve of.  

What is this whole kneeling thing all about?  It's about a bunch of stupid jocks that are ignorant of our laws.  There is no law that states a police officer can only use deadly force when confronted with deadly force.  There is no law that I can only use deadly force under those same circumstances.  By law, I can use deadly force to protect another person.  I can use deadly force if I have reason to believe somebody will cause me serious bodily harm.  So do police officers.  I can use deadly force if somebody is trying to break into my car while I'm in it, even if they are not armed.  All perfectly legal.  

The unions protect their officers under such circumstance.  All shootings and deaths are thoroughly investigated by several different law agencies.  In cases of potential civil rights violations, they are also investigated by our federal government.  

Maybe you heard of the situation that took place here a couple of years ago.  It was the Tamir Rice story.  Police went to a call about a person with a gun pointing it at people in a park.  When the police got there, the person started pulling a realistic looking gun out of his pants, and one of the officers shot and killed him.  It ended up that the person pulling the gun was a very adult looking 12 year old.  

There was video of the entire event.  The grand jury went through the video frame by frame.  It was determined that the officer broke no laws.  The Cleveland police fired him for some error he made on his original job application. Now the union is suing the city for the officer to get his job back.  And why shouldn't he?  He didn't break any laws or violate police procedure.  He shot a 12 year old for pulling a realistic gun on him.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 8, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I had to work there



If you refused to work there you were jailed? 



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I am not spoiled.



Dude, you have NO CLUE. Honest. None. None at all. 


Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The most money I ever made as a teacher was about $55K.



Well, you lived 90 miles outside of Louisville. That put you in the top 10% of earners. 


Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> tenure



another insane "perk" unique to the spoiled child, I mean teacher. 


Dude, like I said, I totally understand how you have no clue how soft you had it. 
Peace


----------



## noonereal (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I (like many kids) hated school



Who wouldn't?  Surrounded by spoiled, self centered, rotten teachers all day.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> we don't like unions period, especially government unions.



For you not to make a distinction between public and private unions is extremely ignorant. 

Public unions are a blight. No doubt about it. Teacher unions, cop unions, Postal government.... they should be outlawed. 

However, private unions are as important as public unions are bad.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 8, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I took a $25,000 pay cut to be a teacher.



ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And why did you do this? 

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

noonereal said:


> For you not to make a distinction between public and private unions is extremely ignorant.
> 
> Public unions are a blight. No doubt about it. Teacher unions, cop unions, Postal government.... they should be outlawed.
> 
> However, private unions are as important as public unions are bad.



Yes, important if you want to see less work getting done.  Important if your goal is to see your job leave the state or country.  

If I had a pickup or delivery at a new company I knew nothing about, I could tell you in five minutes if they were union or not.  In fact my employer quit taking jobs delivering to the auto plants.  A non-union company could have my trailer loaded or unloaded in 30 to 45 minutes.  At the UAW plants, up to four hours.  My employer couldn't tie any of us up that long.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > For you not to make a distinction between public and private unions is extremely ignorant.
> ...



I acknowledge the down side of unions but without them capitalism is less bridled and that is never good for the masses. 
I have seen many a fine American worker be seduced to a lazy obnoxious ass through the influence of unions, your point it valid.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 8, 2021)

Shelzin said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Ever lead a horse to water?  Can you make them drink?
> ...



What do Obama and Bush have to do with your local school board?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 8, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > I had to work there
> ...



Still spewing your lies?


----------



## noonereal (Feb 8, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



You are soft dude. Soft and spoiled. 

Teachers are GROSSLY overpaid. 

We won't get education fixed until we get rid of the unions and let the free market dictate the teacher pay. 
I'll never understand why a teacher gets paid more than a McDonald's workers. 
At least the McDonald's guy serves me hot fries.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 8, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...



Grossly overpaid?  How much did i earn with 20 years experience  3 years ago in Hart County, KY?

Clueless, man!  You are fucking clueless.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 8, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Grossly overpaid
> ...



Now. you just had to go prove you cannot read either and misquoted my post.  That is a TOS violation.  Consider yourself reported and placed on "ignore" for stupidity above and beyond the fall of duty.


----------



## Desperado (Feb 8, 2021)

MisterBeale said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......
> ...


Biden is the one that pushed for the 2005 bill that made Student Loans bankruptcy proof for the benefit of Bank of America.








						Joe Biden Backed Bills That Keep Students In Loan Debt - The Ring of Fire Network
					

Via America’s Lawyer: Biden was one of the key proponents of the 2005 legislation that’s now bearing down on student loan debt, which prevents the $150 billion worth of private student loan debt from being discharged, rescheduled, or renegotiated. Steve Malzberg joins Farron Cousins to discuss...




					trofire.com


----------



## jbrownson0831 (Feb 8, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


Pinochijoe is an idiot.


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.


Because there are those of us that paid our debt off.

I did not agree with saving those that are too big to fail.

 I also don't agree with the fact that my neighbor (6 houses down the block) took out student loans for his 3 kids and went on vacation every 3 months and bought a boat, whereas I took out a HELOC to pay tuition for my boys and opposed to going on vacation for 3 years, I paid that HELOC off.

And now he will go on vacation again (April Cruise to Alaska) and get a free ride for his debt.

It isnt right.


----------



## MisterBeale (Feb 8, 2021)

Desperado said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...


Yeah, I have noticed he is the one that caused many of the problems he now wants to fix.

He made the crime bill, and now wants to try to fix the problems of the black community.

His office gave us the Omnibus Anti-terror bill which was the template for the Patriot Act which created ICE, and now?  He and his cohorts want to scale that back or get rid of it? 

Like, wtf?  Create a problem, then run on a platform to solve the problem YOU created a decade or more ago?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...


 
It doesn't matter, we did it. We are still doing it.



> I also don't agree with the fact that my neighbor (6 houses down the block) took out student loans for his 3 kids and went on vacation every 3 months and bought a boat, whereas I took out a HELOC to pay tuition for my boys and opposed to going on vacation for 3 years, I paid that HELOC off.
> 
> And now he will go on vacation again (April Cruise to Alaska) and get a free ride for his debt.
> 
> It isnt right.



 Lots of stuff isn't. Unfortunately we get all upset at our neighbors as opposed to those getting billions.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

candycorn said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


Right, because a stable food supply is essential to our standard of living, economy, and national security.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

candycorn said:


> But Conservatives are all for the guy who both caused the need for the bailouts and authorized the bailouts themselves? Strange....


Well of course. That was decided before any of them even knew what was being discussed.


----------



## danielpalos (Feb 8, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> FREE STUFF !!!
> 
> SOCIALISM !!! YAY !!!
> 
> it's all good.....until you run out of other peoples money


I guess it should be more fiscally responsible to abolish our alleged and endless, free wars on crime, drugs, and terror first.  We don't want to run out of the Other Peoples' money!


----------



## OldFlame (Feb 8, 2021)

Andylusion said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



Exactly... my husband works at a state university that is in very bad financial shape due to enrollment reductions for the last 10 years.  And guess what, said 'president' of this university has done NOTHING to prepare for the coming budget disaster, just kept kicking it down the road every year.  Said president, a 'highly educated (PhD)' liberal democrat, is one of the state's highest paid employees, like either number 1 or number 2, makes more money than the governor of the state.  He's been completely derelict in his duties to run an operation that is within budget, while accepting unethical pay increases (an $80,000 raise last year!).  He just put out a video last week about the up coming layoffs that are an evil necessary to get the university within budget because of, you guessed it, COVID!!!  Let's ignore the prior 9 plus years of running the place into the ground while accepting more and more money in your own salary every year.  You don't see him taking a reduction to save jobs when he's literally the one person responsible for the dire condition the university is in.  These are the elite liberal assholes that look down their noses at you and preach about big corps and Wall Street while stealing money from tax payers to do a job they're not even qualified to do. And this scenario is just one microcosm of exactly how everything is run from a democrat standpoint at both the state and federal levels. They had several ethical violations of tenured professors over the last several  years that got put on 'special assignment', i.e. not teaching, not even in the state, but sitting around collecting their full professor salary while doing nothing.  It's the same swamp that you see every where else, getting paid to teach your children their bullshit liberal propaganda, and it's all coming from tax payer  money, yet nothing is done to stop it.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 8, 2021)

22lcidw said:


> DudleySmith said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


If the cost of the car you want is too high, you lower your expectations and purchase a lower priced car.  What is different about college.  Learning the finer things about responsible spending are part of a well rounded education.  If you are not capable of something as simple as that than maybe colleges aren't the problem.  In regard to progressive professors, I couldn't agree with you more.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 8, 2021)

OldFlame said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


You know the old cliche', "If you can't do, teach."


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 8, 2021)

I think Joe wants Congress to act to relieve 10,000 dollar worth for each student.  An EO will be challenged until forever,


----------



## Richard-H (Feb 8, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...



The roots of this problem are:

1. College Tuition is way too high - yet colleges do not provide a quality product. Too many degrees are offered in subjects that have no corresponding jobs. 

2. Employers have stopped promoting from within. They hire empty shirts with college degrees to fill jobs that existing personnel could do better.

3. Easy credit - like student loans, mortgages and car loans - have just served to inflate the costs of these items. The same is true of health insurance. Imagine if everyone had to pay for these things with cash on hand? The prices would drop like a rock. But it would be a true 'free market' based on supply & demand, not the phony capitalism that's nothing but a massive scam to keep people defacto slaves.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

Richard-H said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



 Maybe you could list all these "worthless degrees" with no corresponding jobs and tell us what percentage of degrees they are?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Richard-H said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...


Of course he cannot.  This is just a part of the right wing lexicon for shitting on educated people and on education in general. Who needs education, when you know more about war than the generals? This is Trumpism, on parade.


----------



## Richard-H (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Richard-H said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



No, but it would be a good homework assignment for you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Maybe you could list all these "worthless degrees" with no corresponding jobs and tell us what percentage of degrees they are?



My nephews ex got conned by the college to take up advertising.  Until today she works in a bank processing loans.  I had a friend that took up photography.  Last I talked to her was years ago.  She was a receptionist at a TV repair shop.  My niece took biology and graduated top of her class.  She's waiting tables in Florida.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

Richard-H said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Richard-H said:
> ...



 One can't research what doesn't exist. As you know.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you could list all these "worthless degrees" with no corresponding jobs and tell us what percentage of degrees they are?
> ...



 Right, there are no jobs for biology majors........sheesh.

Nobody cares about your deadbeat relatives.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Right, there are no jobs for biology majors........sheesh.
> 
> Nobody cares about your deadbeat relatives.



They are far from deadbeats.  They are law abiding upstanding citizens who are at least trying in life.


----------



## Nostra (Feb 8, 2021)

two_iron said:


> "by executive order"....lol
> 
> They want to be able to blame that autistic stuttering fuck for this communist shit.
> 
> Gotta give it to 'em. Those filthy fucking animals know how to play politics.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 8, 2021)

danielpalos said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > FREE STUFF !!!
> ...



That makes no sense.

Are you yet another "Socialist" who has absolutely no clue what Socialism is ???


----------



## danielpalos (Feb 8, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...


You have no sense.  Right wingers only allege to be for Capitalism in socialism threads.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> danielpalos said:
> 
> 
> > BasicHumanUnit said:
> ...



 Lots of people refuse to see the socialism they support.


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 8, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> > Train wreck with millions of barrels will do the same. There are thousands of miles of lines already. They do well.
> ...



You just make up stuff.  Nothing in this world, is dumber than a partisan idiot, parroting stupidity.










Now please please please, continue to explain how none of the rail lines cross aquifers.  By all means.  Let's hear your brilliant explanation.

*And, no, a rail car will not pollute nearly as much as a pipeline rupture would.*

Factually wrong.   Oil tankers leak too.  Anything that carries a liquid, especially a corrosive liquid, is going to leak at some point.   And even more likely is a container being dragged down rails and roads.









						Trucks, Trains, or Pipelines – The Best Way to Transport Petroleum | OilPrice.com
					

a review of the different methods via which most of the petroleum products in the US are transported around the country, and the different threats that each one poses, along with the benefits




					oilprice.com
				




Fact is, every report ever done on various methods of oil transport has consistently found that the most dangerous, and highest pollution method for transporting crud oil is by truck, followed by train.  The top safest, and least polluting method, is boat, followed by pipe.

Facts over opinion.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


When the so-called Education is Ethnic studies and sensitivity ,the Degree is worthless.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

San Souci said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...



 Tell us more. What degrees are we talking about specifically and what percentage of degrees are we talking about?


----------



## Dragonlady (Feb 8, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...



Most taxpayers will be a lot happier helping kids get out of debt than they are about the half billion dollars taxpayers are spending to defend the nation and insurrectionists stirred up by Donald Trump.  What a fucking waste of money that has been.


----------



## Shelzin (Feb 8, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> What do Obama and Bush have to do with your local school board?


No Child Left Behind, Every Child Succeeds.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 8, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



The kids need to have their debt limits reduced. How about the kids who don’t take on debt by either paying for college themselves through work, savings, military service or by not going to college but working? You are asking them all to pay for the sense of frivolous entitlement that resulted in egregious debt. Good luck with that one.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> Most taxpayers will be a lot happier helping kids get out of debt than they are about the half billion dollars taxpayers are spending to defend the nation and insurrectionists stirred up by Donald Trump. What a fucking waste of money that has been.



No, most taxpayers will not.  We are 28 billion in debt right now, and Dementia Joe wants to add another 2 trillion to buy votes, bailout liberal cities and states, and payoff his union friends from the teachers union.  My niece and nephew just paid off their college loans, so how are they supposed to feel if something like that would ever pass?  All that work for nothing?


----------



## danielpalos (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> BasicHumanUnit said:
> 
> 
> > danielpalos said:
> ...


Like our Big Government nanny-State, alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror?  Abolish those extra-Constitutional wasteful spending policies before we run out of the Other Peoples' tax monies!


----------



## San Souci (Feb 8, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...


Stirred up by TRUMP? You mean filthy BLM? Those pigs riot no matter WHO is president. Antifa? HA! Usually COLLEGE punks. Wonder where they LEARN their Commie crap? And I am NOT happy getting them out of debt. Did the punks not have a Socio-Economics class in High School? If you acquire debt ,you PAY it back. Besides ,colleges suck anyway. Nowadays they teach more "Divirsity" and "sensitivity" than Math and Science. And they give more admissions to the unfit in the NAME of Divirsity.


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 8, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Jim H - VA USA said:
> 
> 
> > And you are right, Gender Studies, just an example I came up with off the top of my head, is not even on this list.
> ...



*Except nobody is.  they are wasting 50K on degrees and there aren't the jobs there to pay them off.  That's the problem.* 

First I don't believe that.  But if you do, then you should support lowering taxes and deregulation, to increase job creation.

*The real problem is that we have too many jobs that require a bachelor's degree for jobs that don't really need one.   For instance, my background is in purchasing and procurement.   30 years ago, you really didn't need a degree to get into that field.   Today, you do, and I know a lot of buyers who won't get considered for jobs because the applicant tracking software they use to sort resumes won't even consider them.*

All of that is somewhat true.  I do know of people who got jobs without a degree, because they had prior experience.  And you can get positions in purchasing and procurement, without a degree.  I just did a job search no Indeed, and there were a dozen that did not require degrees.

That said, you are correct.  Here's the irony.  

It is exactly because we subsidize and promote degrees so much, that results in them being required.

If we did not encourage people to get degrees, and use the government to subsidies them, fewer people would have degrees.

As a result, companies would be far more willing to hire people without degrees, because otherwise, they would never hire anyone.

It is exactly because so many have degrees they don't need.... that companies are filtering out based on degrees.

Think about it another way.  If you have 100 applicants for a job, and only 3 of them have degrees, unless those three are the perfect candidates, you are likely going to consider those without degrees.

But if 50 of the 100 have degrees, you are just going to filter out the other 50, and focus on those with degrees.

So it is almost exclusively because government and the public has pushed having a degree so much, that makes it difficult for anyone without.   We shouldn't be subsidizing higher education at all.

*No, stupid, what got us into this mess is big business demanding people have bachelor degrees for anything that pays above minimum wage.*

No.  That would be wrong, you mindless unthinking idiot.  (dish it out, get it back).
*
A lot of people aren't cut out for college and are kind of wasting their time going, but the system INSISTS they get a degree.*

I would disagree.  There are many ways to get a very well paying jobs without a degree.  I know people who have done it.   I know a lady right now that started working at bank while she was in high school, and never went to college.  Today she's a bank manager, making six figures.

I know a guy that worked his way up, from being an minimum wage employee, and now is a branch manager of a auto parts company.  No degree.

I know a lady that became a district manager for a large retail chain.  No degree.

Now obviously there is a benefit to having a degree, in that you can skip steps.  If you have a degree, you usually don't have to start at an entry level job, and work your way up.  You can skip starting at the bottom rung on the ladder.

* I didn't have to pay tuition, thanks to the Army, but I did have to pay for fees. The biggest ticket item on the fees?  Our wonderful Title IX required athletics programs where we were paying the tuition for mediocre student athletes. *

Agreed.  We should completely and entirely deregulate everything.    If schools had to compete against each other for students, then the school with the best deal (because students would be paying for their own education), would end up with the students.   A school that forced students to pay for ridiculous crap they don't want, would lose students.... and thus be forced to eliminate those unnecessary fees for things they don't want.

*Or maybe we should get rid of the requirement that you need a bachelor's degree for an entry level purchasing job.*

How exactly do you plan on doing that?   If you personally are going to hire someone to do anything for you, are you suggesting the government ban you from considering their qualifications?

Really?  You are going to have the government make a rules "Employers are not allowed to consider the qualifications of an applicant"?


----------



## RandomPoster (Feb 8, 2021)

A kid who doesn't go to college and gets a full time job is working his ass off to pay for another kid to go to college and party for 9 years in pursuit of a degree in Intersectional Feminist Studies.  If your education doesn't pay for itself, its not worth it.  If you disagree, pay for it yourself.


----------



## Andylusion (Feb 8, 2021)

San Souci said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Jimmy_Chitwood said:
> ...



Not exactly 'worthless'.  But not worth much.

Even the most stupid of degrees, has a value.

This is because if 20 people apply for a job, and zero have a degree except for you... even if that degree is with Lesbian Dance theory, you still have a qualification that others don't have.

Now of course, if anyone does have a degree, and that person is


Biff_Poindexter said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Andylusion said:
> ...



Because the majority of claims about bad cops.... aren't.   Most of the examples people point to as bad cops, are really just police doing exactly what they are paid, and trained to do, and stupid whining about it.

Now I agree that Police should not be Unionized, and I would even support privatizing the police departments.

The only reason I haven't brought up the topic of police and unions, isn't because I support them... but rather because the topic of this thread is education.

I have no problem with education in general, but we can see clearly that public education is terrible.  So logically we would disdain something that costs billions a year, and results in a poor education.

The fact left-wingers promote clearly awful education, at extremely high costs, shows how much left-wingers want to destroy the country.


----------



## RandomPoster (Feb 8, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


  If you're borrowing from the government, you're borrowing from the taxpayers.


----------



## RandomPoster (Feb 8, 2021)

This is a huge money grab for the Educational Industrial Complex.  They want everyone going to school for 10 years, even if they wind up doing a job that does not require college.  Imagine the trillions of dollars when everyone goes to college AND there is no longer any incentive to keep costs down.


----------



## Papageorgio (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.



So should all VA loans be cancelled?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

Papageorgio said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 Sure. If some get free money from the government, all should.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you could list all these "worthless degrees" with no corresponding jobs and tell us what percentage of degrees they are?
> ...


Haha, there goes Ray again, making up stories. You always have an anecdote ready for the topic at hand. I imagine that,if someone were to add them all up, we would find you know more people than there are people on the planet.

Tell us another one, Ray.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

San Souci said:


> When the so-called Education is Ethnic studies and sensitivity ,the Degree is worthless.


Translation: you know nothing about that subject or what careers are open to such a person. You just like to shit on anything you don't understand and that you think adds to your white victimhood.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 8, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > When the so-called Education is Ethnic studies and sensitivity ,the Degree is worthless.
> ...


They have NO future. Divirsity sucks. I would rather be in 1958 when this country was Moral.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

San Souci said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > San Souci said:
> ...


You, of course, are just making this up as you go. You know nothing about that subject or the careers available.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

Papageorgio said:


> So should all VA loans be cancelled?



That's different.  Veterans worked for any benefit they get.


----------



## Papageorgio (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



My opinion is that no one should get free money from the government, banks, businesses, students or anyone else. We have a financial crisis and it is getting worse as our debt swells. We need to quit the rich vs. poor BS and tax all and cut spending to the bone to reduce debt, not increase it.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 8, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


I know anything to do with 'Social Justice" sucks. Just another way to put down those who really BUILT America.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 8, 2021)

Papageorgio said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



 That's great for you to believe that but it's not what is happening nor is it going to happen until it all blows up.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

San Souci said:


> I know anything to do with 'Social Justice" sucks.


Exactly. And you use that self defense mechanism just justify not knowing shit about shit about it, yet having a strong opinion anyway. Uh... good for you.

By the way, at the university where I teach sometimes, the Diversity Office lead position was just filled at a 6-figure salary. And this was after the gentleman lost out on a similar position at a locally based bank for over double that salary. So you keep pounding that nail and complaining about things you know nothing about.


----------



## jackflash (Feb 8, 2021)

Desperado said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...


We already had a bank bailout a few years ago.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

Desperado said:


> he banks made bad loans they should be the only ones on the hook for the money


Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The banks don't have that money. They are lending out other people's money. Guess who insures that money? FDIC and NCUA. But only up to $2 mil per household (if you game it right, using ESI, at a credit union. $250K for most individuals). Guess who covers the rest?

Nobody. Because those funds do not exist.


----------



## AFrench2 (Feb 8, 2021)

_Congratulations US Taxpayer, looks like you will get to pick up the $50,000 tab of irresponsible college students and families who took on more debt than they could handle because they felt entitled to go to private elite colleges 3 time zones away and concentrate their studies in useless majors that have no demand in the job market. -LeftofLeft_

Why is going to college irresponsible? And what do you mean "more debt than they could handle"? That's not really up to you, that is up to the banks and loaners of said debt...I mean c'mon. Give these folks a break, they wanted to get an education for a better life. This $50k forgiveness will allow us to stop spending so much on student loans to the Department of NEDucation...and go spent it on groceries.


----------



## AFrench2 (Feb 8, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> > Good, what about the 20 and 30 somethings that just finished paying off their loans in December working two jobs, eating Raman noodles and tv dinners to get by so they can be responsible adults and pay back money they owe? What do you tell those people?
> ...


I've been paying student loans since 2013 (7 years) - and I am fine with brand new college kids getting loan forgiveness. Good for them, hope they get educated and provide great labor to our workforce for the next 30+ years.

That's my 2 cents


----------



## Papageorgio (Feb 8, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


I know that and even after it blows up, we won’t learn.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

AFrench2 said:


> I've been paying student loans since 2013 (7 years) - and I am fine with brand new college kids getting loan forgiveness. Good for them, hope they get educated and provide great labor to our workforce for the next 30+ years.
> 
> That's my 2 cents



And where do you think that money is going to come from?  I'll give you a hint: we are 27 trillion dollars in debt, and Biden is going to put us 29 trillion in debt very soon.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

Papageorgio said:


> My opinion is that no one should get free money from the government, banks, businesses, students or anyone else. We have a financial crisis and it is getting worse as our debt swells. We need to quit the rich vs. poor BS and tax all and cut spending to the bone to reduce debt, not increase it.



I couldn't agree more.  My suggestion is a consumption tax; 10 cents on the dollar exclusively to repay the debt.  If we go more into debt, raise it.


----------



## AFrench2 (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> AFrench2 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been paying student loans since 2013 (7 years) - and I am fine with brand new college kids getting loan forgiveness. Good for them, hope they get educated and provide great labor to our workforce for the next 30+ years.
> ...


It will come from other things. They can cut welfare and military!


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 8, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Bachelors Degrees and Certificates are not a problem provided they are in an area for which there is market demand for those skills sets. What is so stupid about that?



A lot. 

Having a Bachelor's in history did not make me any better at Purchasing than buyers who had more experience, but when 2008 came, I had a much easier time finding a new gig than two of my colleagues.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

AFrench2 said:


> It will come from other things. They can cut welfare and military!



We can cut military.   Nothing would make China happier.  But who is going to cut welfare?  Isn't the federal government paying for your school loan enough welfare?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I couldn't agree more. My suggestion is a consumption tax; 10 cents on the dollar exclusively to repay the debt. If we go more into debt, raise it.


That will have to be a progressive tax.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> And where do you think that money is going to come from? I'll give you a hint: we are 27 trillion dollars in debt, and Biden is going to put us 29 trillion in debt very soon.


Thik about that, a 2 trillion dollar investment would bring the economy back in less than a year (producing jobs and tax revenue) but you're concerned because we're already 27 trillion in debt? That's a 7.4% increase dumbass


----------



## Orangecat (Feb 8, 2021)

Yes, let's buy some more votes by rewarding deadbeats who borrow money and don't pay it back. What a f'n fantastic precedent that sets.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 8, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Thik about that, a 2 trillion dollar investment would bring the economy back in less than a year (producing jobs and tax revenue) but you're concerned because we're already 27 trillion in debt? That's a 7.4% increase dumbass



Sure I'm concerned, and no, none of that money will help us with the economy.  What would have helped us with the economy is the commie cities and states not shutting down.  In that bill is an additional $400 a week on top of state unemployment.  Who would want to go back to work getting all that?  It's like somebody making 50K or more a year depending on what your state unemployment pays.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Sure I'm concerned, and no, none of that money will help us with the economy.


None of it!  Absolutely none!

Ray has SPOKEN!

Good god man...


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 8, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Bachelors Degrees and Certificates are not a problem provided they are in an area for which there is market demand for those skills sets. What is so stupid about that?
> ...



Did you assume $100ks in debt on it and hop 3 time zones to attend a private college and whine like a bitch about it for the US taxpayer to bail you out because you couldn’t find a job? That is what needs to stop.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 8, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Did you assume $100ks in debt on it and hop 3 time zones to attend a private college and whine like a bitch about it for the US taxpayer to bail you out because you couldn’t find a job? That is what needs to stop.


The average State university (not private, not even one time zone over) tuition is about $10K/yr. Another $10K (very) basic living expense figured in, that's $20K/yr basic financial need. What was your annual, disposable income at age 18? 19? 20?

We always say people should try harder, get more skills, more education, get better jobs. That's what these people are generally doing. Do you realize how many people HAVE student debt? As Tywin would say: "A tremendous amount".


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> AFrench2 said:
> 
> 
> > It will come from other things. They can cut welfare and military!
> ...


Cut everything. Fire up the chainsaws and start slashing.


----------



## San Souci (Feb 9, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > I know anything to do with 'Social Justice" sucks.
> ...


I know this was a great country once. Now it is Sodom and Gomorrah because of "Social Justice".


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 9, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Did you assume $100ks in debt on it and hop 3 time zones to attend a private college and whine like a bitch about it for the US taxpayer to bail you out because you couldn’t find a job? That is what needs to stop.
> ...



Exactly. You made my point. Why would a student or parent want to go triple the numbers in debt on the numbers you posted for state and local universities by going to private colleges three time zones away concentrating in a major with little or no path to a job market that will help them manage their debt? 

I am not opposed to government assistance or access to debt financing for the scenario and numbers you site for State and Local universities. I am opposed to facilitating the abuses in the scenarios I provide where the debt can be 3X of State and Local scenarios you provide. I am saying there needs to be more limits and controls to prevent out of control debt.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We can cut military. Nothing would make China happier. But who is going to cut welfare? Isn't the federal government paying for your school loan enough welfare?



For those playing along at home, Ray is on a disability because he can't drive a truck, even though he can sit down for 8 hours a day complaining about "Those welfare people".


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 9, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Did you assume $100ks in debt on it and hop 3 time zones to attend a private college and whine like a bitch about it for the US taxpayer to bail you out because you couldn’t find a job? That is what needs to stop.



No, because 35 years ago, you could afford college because the state picked up most of the operating expenses of the University.   So it actually made sense to go to a state college.  Also, inflation hadn't eaten up the minimum wage and you could actually afford to go to college working a minimum wage job. 

For instance, when I went to UIC in the 1980's, tuition and fees were about $500 a quarter (They weren't' actually quarters, they were more like trimesters, but never mind.)  So I could pay for a four year degree spending about $6000.00.   Today, In-state tuition at UIC is $15,214.  It costs $60,000 to stay in state.  

Now, I'd be happy to go back to what we had back then.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

jackflash said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



 We are bailing the banks out every single day. We have been for years.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> We are bailing the banks out every single day. We have been for years.



Because Banks are federally insured.   They kind of have to be.  Otherwise people would keep their money in their mattresses


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Papageorgio said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



 Every day we see examples of where we never learn.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > We are bailing the banks out every single day. We have been for years.
> ...



Deposits are insured. Investments are not. We are bailing out the investments. You would only bail out deposits after the fact.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Deposits are insured. Investments are not. We are bailing out the investments. You would only bail out deposits after the fact.



So you think they are keeping all those deposits in a big vault like Scrooge McDuck?  

Ah, we dodged a bullet with you Bernie Bros.... you have no idea how the real world works.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Deposits are insured. Investments are not. We are bailing out the investments. You would only bail out deposits after the fact.
> ...



On your knee's for the 1%. You are as bad as the Capitalists who pretend to not support Socialism.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> On your knee's for the 1%. You are as bad as the Capitalists who pretend to not support Socialism.



Hey, guy, I'm a realist.  Banks can't operate by putting money in a vault. They have to loan it out, whether it be in investments, credit cards, mortgages.  

And frankly, it works out.  Try buying a house or a car cash on the barrel.  

So I go back to my metaphor. 

I look at Capitalism as being like a Pitt Bull.   

The Conservative wants the Pit Bull to be able to roam the neighborhood, and if he mauls the local children, it's their own damned fault for getting in the way. 

The Socialist wants to take the pit bull out into the woods and shoot it. 






Me.  I want the pit bull kept on a leash, and sent to obedience school.  I recognize it has its uses and it's owner has rights.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > On your knee's for the 1%. You are as bad as the Capitalists who pretend to not support Socialism.
> ...



It all worked before Clinton and the GOP overturned Glass Steagall.

 Obama, Dodd and Frank created a bill to institutionalize "To Big to Fail" as opposed to simply reinstating G/S.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Most taxpayers will be a lot happier helping kids get out of debt than they are about the half billion dollars taxpayers are spending to defend the nation and insurrectionists stirred up by Donald Trump. What a fucking waste of money that has been.
> ...



You mean "trillion" I hope?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

RandomPoster said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Desperado said:
> ...



Thank you Mister MOTO.  That was the point!  No banks are involved in the vast majority of loans.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

AFrench2 said:


> _Congratulations US Taxpayer, looks like you will get to pick up the $50,000 tab of irresponsible college students and families who took on more debt than they could handle because they felt entitled to go to private elite colleges 3 time zones away and concentrate their studies in useless majors that have no demand in the job market. -LeftofLeft_
> 
> Why is going to college irresponsible? And what do you mean "more debt than they could handle"? That's not really up to you, *that is up to the banks and loaners of said debt...I* mean c'mon. Give these folks a break, they wanted to get an education for a better life. This $50k forgiveness will allow us to stop spending so much on student loans to the Department of NEDucation...and go spent it on groceries.



There are no banks.  The money is from the taxpayer.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

AFrench2 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > airplanemechanic said:
> ...



That is what it is worth!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

AFrench2 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > AFrench2 said:
> ...



Yeah, right!

I work for the military, as does my daughter and son-in-law.  Are you going to put us out of work?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> We are bailing the banks out every single day. We have been for years.



How are we bailing banks out every single day?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > We are bailing the banks out every single day. We have been for years.
> ...



The Fed's money-pumping efforts are driving a new economic cycle that's reminiscent of 2009, Canaccord Genuity says


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> For those playing along at home, Ray is on a disability because he can't drive a truck, even though he can sit down for 8 hours a day complaining about "Those welfare people".



Yes, disability is a government program I paid into my entire working life.  Kids don't pay into a government program for college loans they don't want to pay back stupid.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > For those playing along at home, Ray is on a disability because he can't drive a truck, even though he can sit down for 8 hours a day complaining about "Those welfare people".
> ...



 They pay taxes the rest of their lives.


----------



## Desperado (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


What is the criteria for obtaining a student loan?
How can you loan someone that amount of money when they have no job and no collateral?   Seems that is what needs to be overhauled


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



What's the criteria for giving an entity that should be filing for bankruptcy millions in loans?

 While it's improper to answer a question with a question my reply is still going to be the same. As long as we continue to give failed entities billions of dollars I'm going to support those on the other end.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> Cut everything. Fire up the chainsaws and start slashing.



So you are a politician.  Like most politicians, you became one and want to stay a politician for as long as possible.  To do that, you need people to keep electing you.   

Now you come out and say you're going to cut welfare programs. What do you think the MSM and Democrat politicians will do to you next time you run for reelection?  Even if you don't care that you'll likely won't keep your job, you still need a majority of your fellow representatives to go along with your plan to get enough votes to pass it.  So what do you think your chances of doing that are?  

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm on your side.  My lowlife Arab neighbor bought a property next door to me.  He way overcharges for the place, so the only people that will pay him that amount are HUD people.  They've been nothing but problems since.  They are dirty, noisy, violent people.  There is no reason government should be funding housing in the suburbs for ghetto people.  They obviously have way too much of our tax money.  

However I'm just posting reality here is all.  

Here is a vintage ad the commies ran when the Republicans suggested making Medicare private instead of government run.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.



The main thing is, this will cover all the banks who wrote those loans with a government bailout. Can't have the banksters losing money.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



Well, covering the bank's losses is the whole point here, eh?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



 Already covered. It's not the banks money.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Desperado said:
> ...



The banks wrote the loans, with their money. They collect the interest payments.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

This a bailout for those who have been profiting from the GSL gravy train all these years - the banks and the schools who push these loans on kids in the first place.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 The "banks" money is the trillions the Fed has created out of nothing. Yeah, they collect the interest. Quite a sweet deal. 

 The banks get it for next to nothing but gets back many times over the going rates.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Point being - if we cancel student loans, who's covering the losses? The people who profited from the loan gravy train? Or hapless taxpayers?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 Taxpayers are on the hook for everything. Taxpayers have funded Bezo's and Musk's billions. I support spreading it around. If we are going to do one, I'm going to support doing the other also.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Good for you. I'm supporting none of it.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 That's fine but It's not going to stop and I will get some for the rest.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Also (and I'm sure someone brought this up - but I'm not reading 435 posts this morning), do people who worked through college and paid their own tuition get the bene? Or just those who went in over their head in debt? What about those who have already paid back their student debt, or refinanced it? Are they just taking one for the team?


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Then welcome to "part of the problem".


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Also (and I'm sure someone brought this up - but I'm not reading 435 posts this morning), do people who worked through college and paid their own tuition get the bene? Or just those who went in over their head in debt? What about those who have already paid back their student debt, or refinanced it? Are they just taking one for the team?



 Did the thousands of businesses that went bankrupt all get bailed out?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 You are pissing into the wind. I've argued many times that I would support ending programs all around. When do you suppose that will happen?


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Also (and I'm sure someone brought this up - but I'm not reading 435 posts this morning), do people who worked through college and paid their own tuition get the bene? Or just those who went in over their head in debt? What about those who have already paid back their student debt, or refinanced it? Are they just taking one for the team?
> ...



I'm sure all kinds of corrupt bailouts have happened. Again, part of the problem, or part of the solution? Take your pick.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 There is no pick.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


Are you going all metaphysical on me? (there is no spoon) Just to weasel out of a political debate?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 Simply stating facts..........if Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden all have been on board, what exactly do you suggest?


----------



## Agit8r (Feb 9, 2021)

After Biden voted to make loans to attend predatory educators like ITT Tech unforgivable back in 2005, it is the least he can do within the realm of reasonableness.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Facts? "There is no pick" isn't a fact. It's a silly quip.





> if Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden all have been on board, what exactly do you suggest?




I don't know what previous presidents have to do with the discussion, but I'd suggest we let bankruptcy courts decide who wins. If it's up to Congress or the feds, I know who will win - the folks with the best lobbyists (ie the banks and schools who've been profiting from the student loan gravy train).


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 Empty rhetoric because you do understand my reason for bringing up the presidents.


----------



## Papageorgio (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Dragonlady said:
> ...


I wished it was 28 billion, that would be much easier to get out of debt.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



For about the 4th time in this thread, student loans do NOT come from banks.  They come from the federal government.  Banks have NOTHING to do with this topic.  NONE!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> This a bailout for those who have been profiting from the GSL gravy train all these years - the banks and the schools who push these loans on kids in the first place.



Student loans do NOT come from banks.  Educate yourself.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



 As I recall they do manage the loans and keep the interest.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



They're not talking about bank loans.  They're talking specifically about federal student loans.


----------



## Desperado (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


Get over yourself,  Student loans used to come from banks.
However back in 2010

President Obama will sign a bill today that ends a 45-year-old program under which banks and other private-sector lenders such as Sallie Mae receive a federal subsidy for making government-guaranteed college loans.
Instead, the U.S. Department of Education - which already makes roughly a third of these loans through its direct-lending program - will make 100 percent of them starting July 1.








						Feds take over student loan program from banks
					

With a single lender providing all guaranteed loans, some fear that customer service could...




					www.sfgate.com


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 Get over yourself? People were stating things that were wrong. He was pointing that out. It doesn't matter when it happened, just that it has happened.

 Get over himself for correcting wrong statements?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

Shelzin said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



The colleges won't take the hit, because they aren't the ones who loaned the money.  The federal government did - in this case - and the Democrats are basically just talking about writing it off the books and never bothering to collect OUR money back.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

airplanemechanic said:


> More like:
> 
> Were you responsible and paid off your student loan debt? You did?
> 
> ...



Well, since the contracts in question were with the federal government itself, one assumes no judge is going to stop the creditor from writing off the debt without repayment.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Basically.  "You're old, and either already vote for us or are never going to.  We need to bribe these shiny new incoming potential voters!"


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Desperado said:
> ...



I think it would be completely fair and sensible for people applying for student loans to be asked for a business/financial plan by which they intend to pay the loan back, the same way one does for any other loan.  Hey, they're going to college to learn, so the first lesson they need to learn is how to research and present a plan for their frigging future.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



Did you bother to read the linked article?  They're not talking about wiping out loans held by other institutions (yet); they're talking about wiping out loans held by the federal government.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



 Bernie had a plan where there was a small fee on the trade of stocks. Since there really is no such thing as pensions any longer most people will contribute to a 401k after they graduate and pay into the program themselves.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


No, I don't. It's irrelevant to the discussion.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Before 2011, they most certainly did.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



Neither Bush, Obama or Trump insisted on that. You expect some imaginary being is all of a sudden going to demand it. Solutions that aren't even being proposed is not a solution.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.



The banks paid back their debt when they were bailed out in 2008. That's no defense of them.  I've been against every stimulus ever proposed. Govt is to blame for creating these problems. They do never ending bailouts, never ending stimulus and expect good results.  This is lunacy on an epic scale.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...


Guaranteed Student Loans issued before 2011 were from banks. If those are off the table, I'd like to see it in writing.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.
> ...



 No they did not. I have done this many times also. They paid back some but they also used programs like HARP to pretend to pay back TARP. 

 They paid it back by the Fed pumping trillions of dollars into the markets which greatly benefitted the entities that supposedly was "paying this back". They paid it back by getting billions and the Federal Reserve paying them interest on these billions.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


Do people who worked through college and paid their own tuition get the bene? Or just those who went in over their head in debt? What about those who have already paid back their student debt, or refinanced it? Why are the people who were fiscally responsible left out?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 I've answered this already. Did every business that made bad decisions get bailed out? No.

 How is that fair?


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Shelzin said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



True, they just received the money. And happily spent it.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Bailoutsfor those fucked over by the covid response are a different issue. Student loans have nothing to do with covid.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



That's right. What about those of us who were responsible and accountable.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 We've been bailing entities out for a long time but yes, it's all the same. Tom Brady's company got a million dollars. How much did the standard student get?


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



So, it seems your entire argument is: There's lots of stupid, corrupt bailouts, we should have more!


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



It's not right to payoff loans for people who knew what they were signing. They had an obligation.  Students, banks, whatever. Why are you ok with some being bailed out and not others?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 My argument is that they should not just go to the well connected. As long as we continue to do that I'm going to support it for all. Don't argue with me, argue with those who protect the well connected.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 I've answered that many times. You want to argue to give every single person 50K? Go ahead. I'll not argue against it.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



They just played the game but they did
 pay them back regardless of how the fed stepped in. The fed pumped 8 trillion dollars during the O years and we have people.saying it was a wonderful real economy.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



I'll argue with anyone who supports any of it.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LordBrownTrout said:
> ...



 They paid taxpayers bailouts with other taxpayer funded bailouts. That's no different than what many who took student loans will be doing. 

 Yes, there are a ton of hypocritical Obama supporters. Obama failed at every aspect of being a president.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Is there any raid of taxpayer money you _would _argue against? Where does the 'free shit' mentality end?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 And accomplish nothing.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LordBrownTrout said:
> ...



 I would argue to stop it all but since that is not going to happen, I am going to support it for all. 

 Most of this "free shit" has went to the very few.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Uh... so what? Is this just your way of spitting on the floor and walking away?


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any raid of taxpayer money you _would _argue against? Where does the 'free shit' mentality end?
> ...



Wow, that's pretty fucked up ... "I'd argue to end all police brutality, but since that's not going to happen, let's bash some heads!"


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 I've not thought of it in that way, but I suppose one could look at it like that.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 We have made gains there. 13 years and the pumping continues. Why shouldn't all benefit more equally there?


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



No, you don't get it.  That's not my argument. The states that locked down their own citizens owe them compensation for what they did to them.  If you took out a loan for a car note, tuition and signed. You need to be held responsible. Same as banks and big corporations.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


What???


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LordBrownTrout said:
> ...



I don't think liberals care much about the reasoning behind it. Free shit is free shit!


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

LordBrownTrout said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LordBrownTrout said:
> ...


 
 It isn't the states that bailed them out. The Federal Government is the one that gave a million dollars to Tom Brady ( yes I understand what I'm doing here by picking on one example but it works)

 Sue your state. I'll not argue.



> If you took out a loan for a car note, tuition and signed. You need to be held responsible. Same as banks and big corporations.


 
 That isn't what happened nor is it what is still happening. When that happens, let me know and I'll reconsider my position.


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


It is not an issue of bailout, I is an issue of fairness.
I, too, took out student loans for both of my boys....Actually, not student loans....I took out a HELOC...a lien against my house. I have since paid that off, but it took about 5 years to do so at a sacrifice. What sacrifice? No vacations, no luxuries, no 65 inch TV's for 5 years. Why? I made a commitment and I stuck to it.
If I went with FASFA, I will get a pass....giving me 50K more to spend....either now or over the last 5 years.
But no one is saying "we will give a pass to  those that did the responsible thing"  like I did....all I am hearing is how  they will give a pass to those that shot the dice and hoped for the best.

That is what makes it wrong.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



 I'm the one that argues to stop with the bailing out and I'm the liberal? I've argued it for years. I was with those who initially killed TARP.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 Tom Brady's company got a million dollars. The student got nothing. How is that fair?


----------



## OldFlame (Feb 9, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> San Souci said:
> 
> 
> > I know anything to do with 'Social Justice" sucks.
> ...



And that's why the cost to get a degree is so over inflated, appointing bloviated, self important SJW's to high paying positions that result in nothing from a productive standpoint. Why do you need a Diversity Office at universities that are 98% run by leftists and attended by a generation that has already been brain washed by the SJW propaganda?


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



You're not following the argument: See, lots of other things are wrong too, so that makes it ok. Got it?


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


If I am not following the debate, I take blame as I did not read every post.

I apologize for interjecting from a position of ignorance..

It happens. Especially on a message board.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



I was being sarcastic. The "argument" is a pathetic excuse. As you said, it's wrong.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



 No, what you did was make it an issue of "fairness". You just didn't take it far enough. Nothing wrong with your argument but to continue you need to answer my question. 

 You argued for fairness. With the last bail out Tom Brady's company got a million dollars while students got nothing. Do you see that as fair?


----------



## OldFlame (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



We have Parent Plus loans that we are currently paying back, but I'm guessing that most responsible parents that are diligently repaying their loans will not be included in any reductions of loan totals, so I really doubt that I will 'get a pass', and certainly didn't decide to borrow that way hoping that in the future the debt would be erased. It will be the people that borrowed and for whatever reason haven't gotten good paying jobs that will get the reduction, I would be shocked if it is not income driven, if it happens at all.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



So any and every fucking government bailout is OK, 'cause Tom Brady'?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



 If you wish to answer my question, answer it. I'm not addressing you ranting.


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


If I knew more about it, I would offer my opinion. But I don't.
And not that I care about Tom Brady. He does not need me to care about him.
I just truly know nothing of what you are talking about and I, for one, will never debate a topic I am uneducated on.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Ok, dumbass - I'll answer your question. Let's see, I guess you're talking about this one - "Do you see that as fair?"  Answer: no.

Now, getting back to the topic, why should students who chose to go into debt be rewarded for it? (hint: it has nothing to do with Tom Brady)


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



Tom Brady's company TB12 took nearly $1MILLION in federal PPP funding


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


As it pertains to fairness.....Tom Brady has 7 rings, a great life, a beautiful intelligent wife.
Me? All I have is a decnet life and a beautiful wife....albeit, not like Giselle.
So.....so much for fairness,.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 I've answered that many times. As long as some get bailed out, I support it for all. How many times do I need to answer this?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



 Yeah well, avoid the point I suppose. You said you supported fairness.


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


I also said I was naive to what you are referring to so for me to comment would be childish.

Sorry. Unlike many on here, I do not try to debate topics I know little about.


----------



## task0778 (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> It is not an issue of bailout, it is an issue of fairness.



True, but it is also a question of rewarding fiscal irresponsibility.  One of the primary lessons I learned from my father was to live within your means and avoid debt if at all possible.  It was a question of honor and integrity to pay off your debts, and those who didn't do that were viewed as unreliable - obviously something you didn't want to be known for.  It was seen as a question of character to live responsibly and not be a burden on anyone else;  a person's self esteem and the esteem of others were tied to that concept.  So, you avoided taking on a debt if you could, and if you couldn't then you were duty-bound to pay it off.

Younger generations do not seem to hold that same idea.  Nowadays, nobody cares.  And a policy of paying off student debts just adds to the notion that being a responsible person is no big deal cuz the gov't will take care of it so no problem, right?  I don't think that notion is good for "The Soul of America".  Where is the honor and integrity in passing on our national debt to future generations?  SOMEBODY ends up paying for what we over-spend on today, sooner or later the interest payments grow to be so large that we can't cover the rest of our federal gov'ts obligations, what happens then?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



 I provided context. Is it fair for Tom Brady to get a million dollars and for students to get nothing?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

task0778 said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > It is not an issue of bailout, it is an issue of fairness.
> ...



 You are assuming that many are not paying off their loans. 

 Are you willing to pay more in taxes to cover our $28 trillion debt?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



Oh, like Congress has the stones and self-respect to object to having their powers usurped.  They LIKE having other people do their jobs, so they don't have to take any of the heat.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 9, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Did you assume $100ks in debt on it and hop 3 time zones to attend a private college and whine like a bitch about it for the US taxpayer to bail you out because you couldn’t find a job? That is what needs to stop.
> ...



No argument here that the state schools are expensive enough and a challenge to manage that debt. Why open it up to put the burden up to 3X that for a private college and major that does not have more clearly defined job paths? That is my argument .... more restrictions and controls.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Shelzin said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...



Odds are good that if you can't manage 4th-grade grammar and vocabulary (the age at which literate people learned to spell "gauge"), you didn't gain enough education to have anything useful to say.

Did you think the "cerebral approach" was to communicate as though you just arrived in this country?


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


Fascinating. So, you support free shit for everyone? Doesn't it occur to you that that's not viable? Are you just taking a kind of nihilist position?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 Viable? Why not? There are tons of things we aren't paying for. Trump said that the debt is meaningless.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



You're a Trumpster now! That would explain the idiotic arguments.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 9, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Shelzin said:
> ...



You do not recognize intellect because it eludes you. 

This is common.

Peace


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 Why address me when you refuse to answer questions concerning your positions? If you really believe something, defend those things. I understand why you can't.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


Actually the argument is that you say nothing about bailouts for corporations but are appalled at bailouts that help regular people


----------



## blackhawk (Feb 9, 2021)

So those who are financially responsible should have to pick up the bill for those who were financially irresponsible personally I call that royally fucked up.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



So, tell me where I was wrong?  If you are still paying on student loans from banks, you are a slacker to the maximum!


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

Ever hear the expression "no skin off my nose"?

It hurts you not at all if student loans are forgiven.

And oh yea...the thread title is bogus. There is no such Executive Order.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



If you have loans from before 2011, you are incompetent to start with!


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

And oh yea...most student loans are private loans that are Federally guarantied. They are guaranteeing that the BANKS will get repaid... 

Are those low interest loans? For the most part they are at market rates but the banks are guaranteed repayment.
ANd oh yea...should you go bankrupt...you still have to pay off these loans.

Talk about a sweet deal


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> If you have loans from before 2011, you are incompetent to start with!


Que? Care to explain that?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



The federal government cannot write off loans to private institutions.  What part of that are you simply not getting?


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> The federal government cannot write off loans to private institutions. What part of that are you simply not getting?


Why not? They guaranteed them in the first place.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Ever hear the expression "no skin off my nose"?
> 
> It hurts you not at all if student loans are forgiven.
> 
> And oh yea...the thread title is bogus. There is no such Executive Order.



The money to repay them has to come from somewhere.  We are approaching 28 trillion in debt, and by the time we get there, the Democrats are going to add an additional 2 trillion putting us over 30 trillion in debt.  It's skin off everybody's nose.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Lesh said:
> 
> 
> > Ever hear the expression "no skin off my nose"?
> ...


Amazing how fast the Trumpers did a 180 and became debt scolds.

Happens every time they are OUT of power


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


I haven't refused to answer a fucking thing. You're saying that because government has done things that are unfair, they should do more. That's not rational, nor moral.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

blackhawk said:


> So those who are financially responsible should have to pick up the bill for those who were financially irresponsible personally I call that royally fucked up.



It's the Democrat way.  Before Ears, I always got 0% interest credit cards with no transfer fees.  The banks made their money off of irresponsible borrowers in increased interest rates and late penalties.  Then that idiot rode into the White House, and stopped banks from charging those fees.  The banks had no choice but to charge their responsible borrowers instead.  I still get 0% interest rate, but anytime I transfer a balance, they charge me a fee based on how much I'm carrying over to the new card.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


You win the award for the "dumbest post of the month."

No, free shit for everyone is not viable.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



Thanks for clarifying. If that's the argument, then it's simply a lie and invalid on that basis.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Ever hear the expression "no skin off my nose"?
> 
> It hurts you not at all if student loans are forgiven.
> 
> And oh yea...the thread title is bogus. There is no such Executive Order.


Of course it hurts me, douchebag.  Who do you imagine will have to pay off your debt?

You just made it plain why people become leftwingers:  they are stupid.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Amazing how fast the Trumpers did a 180 and became debt scolds.
> 
> Happens every time they are OUT of power



We always were. However at least when Trump spent money, it was on things that benefit the entire country like a stronger military.  With the Democrats, it's all about vote buying: Sending money to Pakistan for gender studies, 80 million to the Kennedy center.  Taking care of their union friends at the post office and teachers unions, now college kids who generally vote Democrat due to the indoctrination.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Lesh said:
> ...


When did  any Trump supporter say he was opposed to allowing people to get away with not paying their debts?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 The government is not designed to be fair to all? It was created to look after the needs of the few?


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 You failed to answer why not? Trump said debt doesn't matter. Are you willing to pay more taxes to address our $28 trillion in debt?


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> task0778 said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...


No one is assuming they are not paying off their loans. That is a diversion from reality.
Most are.
The problem is, many of us did not go through FASFA....we went with HELOCS. Likewise, many of us did not want to pay the 10 years of interest and instead sacrificed to pay it off sooner.
If We were aware that we would have those loans forgiven, we would have taken out FASFA loans and made the minimum payment each month. 
Lets look short term:

My wife and have an account where we deposit 250 a month to my granddaughters education. An automatic ACH by our investment frim. My son and daughter in law match it...so over the past 3 years, there is now 18K saved for her education plus the increase in market....about 22K. Good for us. Can we afford it? Yes. Would I prefer a bigger boat instead? Yes. But we are doing what we can to meet the needs of my granddaughters education 15 years from now.

In the meantime, my neighbor (not factual, but for a point to be made) takes that 500 a month and vacations, buys what he/she wants and will worry about the grandkids education when the time comes.

So in 15 years, I pay in full for my grandaughters education, and my neighbor (with a bigger boat) takes out a loan.

My neighbor pays his monthly bill for 6 months and then is told...."dont worry about it.  You and Your neighbor down the block will pay higher taxes to cover your debt"

Did my neighbor do anything wrong? No. Never said he did.

Was I screwed?

You tell me.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > task0778 said:
> ...



 My daughter is in her second year of college. As soon as she was born we started paying into the states pre-paid college program. Her college is covered because we paid for it. Its not about me.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


I haven't seen any evidence that Trump said any such thing.  Economics is what you can't give everyone unlimited free shit.


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## task0778 (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp:  _" You are assuming that many are not paying off their loans. "_

Dude!  They're talking about forgiving approx $1.6 trillion in student loan debt.  SOMEBODY isn't paying off their loan!


pknopp:  _" Are you willing to pay more in taxes to cover our $28 trillion debt? "
_
I'm not willing to pay for somebody else's debts.  If you sign a loan contract to borrow X dollars for a student loan or any other reason, then that's totally on you to pay it off, not me or anyone else.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



 And yet that is exactly what we do.........for some.


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## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


No. Its not about you. It is about those that do not take responsibility for themselves and make commitments and then vote to have people like you and mail assist them in bailing themselves out.


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## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



Again, you are assuming they are not paying off their loans.

 Is what you are complaining about exactly what Trump did with the farmers? Gave them billions to make sure he got their vote?


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


And that is the point.

Yes, for some. That is how it is supposed to be. Help those that cant help themselves...whether it be a disability, an unexpected loss of a spouse, a natural disaster.

But we are slowly becoming a nation where we help those that CAN help themselves. becuase they toss the dice and enjoy life the best their finances allow and when the shit hits the fan, they turn to the rest of us to bail them out

That is the problem.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



 How is it that Tom Brady couldn't help himself? 

Investment banks will all go bust without the continued pumping of the Federal Reserve?


----------



## SC Patriot (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> SC Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


wow.

My post started off making it clear that my assumption is they ARE paying off their loans....and I explained that in detail.

SO you obviously ignored what I wrote and opted to simply rant about Trump. I dont go there.

SO I am done with you.

Cya.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> You failed to answer why not? Trump said debt doesn't matter. Are you willing to pay more taxes to address our $28 trillion in debt?



If we all had to pay a tax for the debt, you'd see how fast we could get congressional spending under control.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't refused to answer a fucking thing. You're saying that because government has done things that are unfair, they should do more. That's not rational, nor moral.
> ...



That's not my position. If it's yours, then I suppose that's where we disagree.


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## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



I'm not getting why you're ignoring guaranteed student loans, issued before 2011, which were issued by banks and that the government will cover. If the proposal doesn't cover those, then it's not a concern, but I've seen no indication that it doesn't.


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## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



 You speak out of both sides of your mouth. 

_is about those that do not take responsibility for themselves....._


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## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

SC Patriot said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > SC Patriot said:
> ...



 You speak out of both sides of your mouth. 

_is about those that do not take responsibility for themselves....._


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## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


This discussion would be moot if everyone would just agree that when you commit to borrow AND pay back a sum with interest, you make the decision yourself with no coercion.  The fact that after you receive the benefit you choose to default should land your parasite ass in prison or your wages should be garnished.  The borrower signed their name and all other parties lived up to their commitments--now it is the borrower who must perform.


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## Orangecat (Feb 9, 2021)




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## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



 I understand, you aren't interested in fair.


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## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



I do think there's a valid case for "predatory lending", on the part of the government and the schools that wanted the money (and were willing to throw students under the bus to get it). But that's not what this is about. This is being pursued by Democrats because it's one step away from their bigger soapbox issue of "free college".


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

pknopp said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...


Fuck you troll. You've been disingenuous in our every exchange. Piss off.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


To which I say,  Nothing is FREE.  If it doesn't come out of their pockets (they are the ones that benefit, after all) then it comes out of someone else's pockets--Yours, mine or some other taxpayer.


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## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...


Agreed. I think the schools should be held accountable. But mostly, the practice should be ended.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


Cannot agree with predatory lending either.  These are people wanting a college education and as such are assumed to have completed 12 years of education successfully.  They are supposed to be able to make informed decisions if they can pass an SAT.  Additionally, they jumped at the idea of a low interest loan with extended terms.  What is next--consumer credit card debt should be forgiven because they charge interest rates that are usuary while demanding minimum payments that are less than the interest--that happens too--talk about predatory lending.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > learn a trade
> ...



Spoken like someone who's never contributed a damned thing to the world by his existence except more hot air.

By all means, tell us about this "higher calling" you think you have, and what tangible benefit it produces to anyone.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


I am not opposed to that.  Maybe some sort of like-term compulsory service to the country to pay the bill is appropriate.  Similar to our military academies providing education for officers.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...


Often they're naive teenagers, with no one advising them outside of college recruiters - who want that money.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


There are also high school counselors and advisors that provide them with advice.  If these "kids" are so naive, they would be up to their eyeballs in consumer or payday loan debt inside of a year after high school and there would be not relief from that either.  Brings up 'payday loans'--talk about predatory/usury.  460%, but that is another story LOL  Bottom line--Bad decisions have bad consequences.


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



Yeah, I hear ya. All of this kind of sidesteps the issue that most of the folks this will help aren't poor - they're lower middle class at worst. If we're going to drop a trillion dollars on "free shit", I'd rather it go to the people who are hurting the worst, people who can't feed their kids, etc..


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> 22lcidw said:
> 
> 
> > professors are progs
> ...



Um, no, the business isn't getting the education; the student is.  The business pays for the part of the student's education that it uses by way of the salary they pay him as an employee.  Since the student can - and most likely will - pick up and take that education to some other business and use it for THEIR benefit at some point in his career, I think it's logical to any sane person who has actually worked that it's HIS property and he should be the one to pay for it.


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## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

For almost all college students there is no alternative BUT loans. And for them to be Federally guaranteed (which they should be) they should be super low interest. They are anything but that


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## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


Agreed.  I knew an MIT graduate that parried her $250K engineering degree into a mediocre-paying graveyard HR position in a factory.  Good use of a prestigious engineering degree, eh?


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## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> For almost all college students there is no alternative BUT loans. And for them to be Federally guaranteed (which they should be) they should be super low interest. They are anything but that


Yeah, that's what I was saying - you just want free college. This isn't really about that.


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## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Yeah, that's what I was saying - you just want free college. This isn't really about that.


First off that's NOT what I said nor what you quoted. A low interest loan is NOT free.

Second there SHOULD be more free secondary education ...this is the richest country in the world and an educated work force is essential.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Orangecat said:


> View attachment 455169



Exactly.  You're supposed to work all your life, pay taxes so somebody can be a doctor or a lawyer.  Then after you're done funding their education and you need a lawyer, he or she charges you $200.00 an hour.  I'm sorry, but I don't think that's equitable.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> This discussion would be moot if everyone would just agree that when you commit to borrow AND pay back a sum with interest, you make the decision yourself with no coercion. The fact that after you receive the benefit you choose to default should land your parasite ass in prison or your wages should be garnished. The borrower signed their name and all other parties lived up to their commitments--now it is the borrower who must perform.



This is true but remember a lot of high school kids are ignorant when it comes to finances.  They don't understand how long it will take them to repay the loan, how much it's going to take out of their paychecks for X amount of years, and how much in actual dollars they will be paying to have that loan.  This is where high school should come in; a class to teach them the fundamentals of borrowing money for school, the benefits of considering a trade instead, and how much further ahead they'd be.


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## Orangecat (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Exactly.  You're supposed to work all your life, pay taxes so somebody can be a doctor or a lawyer.  Then after you're done funding their education and you need a lawyer, he or she charges you $200.00 an hour.  I'm sorry, but I don't think that's equitable.


It's really quite simple: If you borrow money, you pay it back.
That's what adults who were raised right do.
Liberals hate that kind of integrity.


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## Orangecat (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> For almost all college students there is no alternative BUT loans.


How about the alternative of not purchasing something you can't afford? Everyone has that option.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > This discussion would be moot if everyone would just agree that when you commit to borrow AND pay back a sum with interest, you make the decision yourself with no coercion. The fact that after you receive the benefit you choose to default should land your parasite ass in prison or your wages should be garnished. The borrower signed their name and all other parties lived up to their commitments--now it is the borrower who must perform.
> ...


What are they teaching in high school these days?  I was a freshman in 1965 and they offered a class in business--taught about basic finance, check writing, interest rates, what constituted usury etc.   But all of that being said, these college loans are not payday loans and they are far from being usury.  Low interest rates with liberal terms in regard to repayment.  Also, they are HS kids when they enter the school, after the first they are college students and shouldn't have to have their hands held.  Sorry for my lack of empathy, I come from a military family that lived on the financial edge, I and my three siblings scrimped and saved and paid for our educations and worked long careers, retiring with no debts.  It takes ambition and perseverance.  Things that are seriously lacking in today's world.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

Orangecat said:


> Lesh said:
> 
> 
> > For almost all college students there is no alternative BUT loans.
> ...


Which would mean that only the rich have college educations. I don't think you'd actually like that country


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Second there SHOULD be more free secondary education ...this is the richest country in the world and an educated work force is essential.



And educated and non-educated workforce is essential, however we don't buy the carpenter a van so he can haul his tools to work every morning.


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Agreed. I knew an MIT graduate that parried her $250K engineering degree into a mediocre-paying graveyard HR position in a factory. Good use of a prestigious engineering degree, eh?


You think he's stupid or lazy? MIT grads are rarely either. That's all he could find.



Concerned American said:


> Low interest rates with liberal terms in regard to repayment.


What planet do YOU live on? My daughter in law is carrying $60K in loans at 6%


----------



## Lesh (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Lesh said:
> 
> 
> > Second there SHOULD be more free secondary education ...this is the richest country in the world and an educated work force is essential.
> ...


So where's the vocational training? Is there any?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> What are they teaching in high school these days? I was a freshman in 1965 and they offered a class in business--taught about basic finance, check writing, interest rates, what constituted usury etc. But all of that being said, these college loans are not payday loans and they are far from being usury. Low interest rates with liberal terms in regard to repayment. Also, they are HS kids when they enter the school, after the first they are college students and shouldn't have to have their hands held. Sorry for my lack of empathy, I come from a military family that lived on the financial edge, I and my three siblings scrimped and saved and paid for our educations and worked long careers, retiring with no debts. It takes ambition and perseverance. Things that are seriously lacking in today's world.



I was in high school in the 70's and we had civics which did the same thing.  It was optional however and most only took it for extra credit. 

I have no idea WTF they teach these kids today.  They don't even know cursive.  If they ever had to write a check, I don't know how they would accomplish it, or how they would sign their name.  I do remember when my nephew was in college.  He told us he didn't pay any interest on his credit card.  Strange.  It took me years of good credit until I started getting offers like that.  I asked to see his credit card bill, and showed him the interest he was paying.  Now, my nephew is no dumb kid.  He graduated college with a Masters, but he had no concept of money.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> So where's the vocational training? Is there any?



Sure, but like anything else, they pay for it themselves if that's the career they choose.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 9, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> the business isn't getting the education; the student is.



The business is teh one profiting on the education of the student. The education being the toil of the student. The business should be obligated to pay for that toil in addition to the actural education. Yes, business should pay a salary to the student while they are in school. 




Cecilie1200 said:


> The business pays for the part of the student's education that it uses by way of the salary they pay him as an employee.



Immoral horse shit. 
For example,
the military pays the soldier and pays to train the soldier. Why not business?

Business has more an obligation to so this as they PROFIT on  the worker. 

To also allow the non working investor class to profit on student loans while not have to pay to train their employees is positively an immoral system. 

Put 18 year old's in debt while they train to make a profit for the non working investor class? And then profiting on those loans also? What can be more immoral?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Lesh said:


> What planet do YOU live on? My daughter in law is carrying $60K in loans at 6%



Okay, but should that be a burden on the taxpayer or her?  

I don't know how long you've been on this thread, but earlier I posted the truth.  There is no law that states you have to enter college right out of high school.  Live with mom and dad.  Get a job and work for a few years to save money for school.  Go to college when you're 21 and pay cash.  While you're doing that, get a part-time job during school, and a full-time job when classes are out.  Even if you have to take a loan, it wouldn't be for very much.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Immoral horse shit.
> For example,
> the military pays the soldier and pays to train the soldier. Why not business?



How would you force business to do this?  Because after all, force is the only way they would do it.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They don't even know cursive.



What a dumb thing to say. 

Honest, WTF?

Why on earth should a kid learn cursive? Why? 
Just because you did? Time is change and cursive is simply not needed today. This is a fact. 

As to your nephew. He is an idiot or a lazy slob who never bothered to look at his bill and understand it. 
A 3rd grader could figure out if there was an extra change on his bill if he simply looked at it. 

Maybe he is like you? Maybe that is the problem. That is sure as hell what he sounds like to me.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Immoral horse shit.
> ...



I am glad you ask this because it acknowledges that you agree that this is their rightful cost. 

How to accomplish this? Simple, whatever educational requirements a business has should be collected as a tax. 
So if a company requires an MBA, a company must pay a tax amount comparable to that cost.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

task0778 said:


> pknopp:  _" You are assuming that many are not paying off their loans. "_
> 
> Dude!  They're talking about forgiving approx $1.6 trillion in student loan debt.  SOMEBODY isn't paying off their loan!
> 
> ...


This idiot actually believes that letting these deadbeats off the hook will lower my taxes.  He's a typical Biden voter.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> What a dumb thing to say.
> 
> Honest, WTF?
> 
> ...



He's a very bright kid.  You can't be dumb and earn a Masters degree.  The point that flew over your head is they don't teach this kind of stuff in high school anymore and they should.  They should be teaching kids about stuff like that.  They should be teaching them about investments like the stock market, the commodities market, real estate, and the basics to opening up your own business.  So it seems, high schools are failing these kids, and I don't mean in a grading way.  

You don't need cursive?  I'd love to see you fill out a police report and see what it looks like when you're done.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


How about if we just keep the government out of it altogether?  Abolish government funding of education.  Then businesses will have to pay to educate their workers.  The worker is the one who receives the education, not the business.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


No he doesn't, and it isn't.  the company pays for the skill in salary.  Why should the government get anything out of the business?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> I am glad you ask this because it acknowledges that you agree that this is their rightful cost.
> 
> How to accomplish this? Simple, whatever educational requirements a business has should be collected as a tax.
> So if a company requires an MBA, a company must pay a tax amount comparable to that cost.




Okay.  So you and I are trying for the same job.  I have a college education in which to do the job immediately.  You apply for the job and the employer would have to fund your education first.  Who do you think would get that job, you or me?


----------



## Billy000 (Feb 9, 2021)

Anathema said:


> Hey, I went to college... I want $50K of free money for nothing, too.
> 
> Now, my entire degree didn’t even cost $50K, I personally borrowed only $2000 to cover those costs, and I had that paid back before I got my first real career job. Why aren’t these worthless shits being expected to pay their debts?


Hey moron maybe it’s because their degree didn’t cost 2000 like yours. God republicans are stupid lol


----------



## noonereal (Feb 9, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



You need to think of the education as a capital investment. Just as business needs to buy software for it's computer hardware, it needs to buy software (education) for it's hardware (employees).


----------



## noonereal (Feb 9, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> No he doesn't, and it isn't. the company pays for the skill in salary.



The company is getting over like a fat rat. 

They need to pay for the tools they need in all aspects of the business by not in human needs? This is an immoral template which has evolved., It needs to change.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad you ask this because it acknowledges that you agree that this is their rightful cost.
> ...



So you understand how broken the system is. 

Time for business to pay their fair share, especially the non working investor class.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > What are they teaching in high school these days? I was a freshman in 1965 and they offered a class in business--taught about basic finance, check writing, interest rates, what constituted usury etc. But all of that being said, these college loans are not payday loans and they are far from being usury. Low interest rates with liberal terms in regard to repayment. Also, they are HS kids when they enter the school, after the first they are college students and shouldn't have to have their hands held. Sorry for my lack of empathy, I come from a military family that lived on the financial edge, I and my three siblings scrimped and saved and paid for our educations and worked long careers, retiring with no debts. It takes ambition and perseverance. Things that are seriously lacking in today's world.
> ...


IDK, People just don't think critically.  I use a credit card that has something like 14% interest, but I chose one that has no annual fee and uses simple API--not the bank-preferred two month average.  I pay it off in total every month and I haven't paid a dime of interest in over 10 years--they even give me miles.  The banks don't like it, but it is legal.  It beats an ATM card in that I get an extended warranty on purchases too.  You have to pay attention, but there are some good deals to be had still.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> So you understand how broken the system is.
> 
> Time for business to pay their fair share, especially the non working investor class.



It's not broken at all.  What's broke about it?  If you want something, you have to work for it.  Let's be realistic here.  You need a job more than an employer needs you.  Why?  Because there are less employers needing workers than there are workers needing jobs.  It's why the employer interviews you, and not the other way around. 

Without a doubt in most cases, somebody with a college degree will earn more money than somebody without.  In other words, it's an investment.  An investment is when you take your own money, put it into something, get that money back with hopefully a profit.  I don't think government nor business should be funding anybody's investments.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad you ask this because it acknowledges that you agree that this is their rightful cost.
> ...


Why should a business fund your education when you can go get a better job the minute you complete your studies?


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


Businesses pay far more than their fair share, you NAZI numbskull.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


The business does pay for the education--directly to the educated candidate that holds the higher paying job.  If said candidate didn't have that education, the business would pay him minimum wage for the job that had less education required.  It is the student that benefits as he can go from job to job, city to city, country to country--how would you tax a business that uses a US educated candidate in, say, Hong Kong?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Why should a business fund your education when you can go get a better job the minute you complete your studies?



Another great point.  If I need an employee, I don't have two, three or four years to wait for an employee.  I need one right now.  That's why I placed the ad now.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > No he doesn't, and it isn't. the company pays for the skill in salary.
> ...


Why should your employer be on the hook for your needs?  A business pays for a labor of a certain type and of a certain quality.  It pays the market rate. Now you demand that it pay an additional amount.  Where's the logic behind that?  Your need?  Only a snake uses logic like that.

Your "template" is "from each according to his ability and to each according to his need." where have we heard the before?


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 9, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


Many do, my former employer would pay tuition and books for any employee without a post graduate degree.  They also would fund post-grad degrees if they benefited the company.  Not all companies do this, but there are a few.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2021)

noonereal said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


It's not an investment if it disappears the minute it's completed.   Unless you are going to prevent people from quitting their jobs, paying for their education is just flushing money down the toilet.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Feb 9, 2021)

Where did these loans come from?

If the government didn't make those loans, then the government is in no position to forgive those loans...


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Canon Shooter said:


> Where did these loans come from?
> 
> If the government didn't make those loans, then the government is in no position to forgive those loans...



That's the loans we're talking about.  After Ears became President, he had government takeover the school loan system.  Now you don't owe any bank, you owe government.


----------



## Desperado (Feb 9, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Fuck you Dic.... That is when the Feds took control of the Student loans


----------



## Desperado (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Canon Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Where did these loans come from?
> ...


And Biden made them bankrupt proof


----------



## dblack (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Shooter said:
> ...



The more sensible relief would be to revoke that aspect, allow students in over their head to file bankruptcy, like anyone else in that spot.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> And Biden made them bankrupt proof



There is only one possible reason DumBama did that, and it was for the next Democrat President to pull a stunt like this.  Tax money being used to buy Democrat votes.


----------



## Anathema (Feb 9, 2021)

Billy000 said:


> Hey moron maybe it’s because their degree didn’t cost 2000 like yours. God republicans are stupid lol



So what you’re saying is that they overpaid for their education. My $40,000 Associates of Science degree got me a $30,000 a year job right outta the gate. I now make close to three times that with a pension and great benefits 25 years later with no additional education requirements.

Whereas these kids today spend $300K and 5 years of their life to get a degree that doesn’t qualify them to do much more than work at McDonalds.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 9, 2021)

Anathema said:


> Billy000 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey moron maybe it’s because their degree didn’t cost 2000 like yours. God republicans are stupid lol
> ...



 Such as? List these degrees and tell us what percentage of degrees these are.


----------



## Billy000 (Feb 9, 2021)

Anathema said:


> Billy000 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey moron maybe it’s because their degree didn’t cost 2000 like yours. God republicans are stupid lol
> ...


Okay so your degree cost 40k but you only borrowed 2k? Hmm I wonder how you paid for the rest lol. I’m guessing you won’t tell me. 

I know old fucks like you like to pull stats out of your ass, but the average college student obviously doesn’t pay 300k for one degree.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



The loans are guaranteed and why would anyone have loans that old?  If I recall, 10 years was the payback on those.  Why would they be bailing out banks?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

dblack said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



Hey moron!  They owed the money to the taxpayers.  What part are you not getting?  You are just incredibly thick in the head or trolling. Which is it?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > What a dumb thing to say.
> ...



Cursive is useless.  I have not used it since high school and I am 60 years old.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 9, 2021)

Desperado said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



Hey shit head!  What did I say that was wrong?  If you have loans from before 2011, you are incompetent to start with!


----------



## Lesh (Feb 10, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> If I recall, 10 years was the payback on those.


You recall wrong. My kid graduated in 2006. The loan won't be repaid for another 8 years...at 6%. It's Federally guarantee and can't be wiped out by bankruptcy.. That's a scam if I ever heard one


----------



## justinacolmena (Feb 10, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Congratulations US Taxpayer, looks like you will get to pick up the $50,000 tab of irresponsible college students and families who took on more debt than they could handle because they felt entitled to go to private elite colleges 3 time zones away and concentrate their studies in useless majors that have no demand in the job market. These students and families who feel entitled to this have the audacity to say they have been “enslaved” or victimized by student debt.


Back to the original question, are the students -- in exchange for debt forgiveness -- going to give up their degrees from those bankrupt diploma mills or financially exigent educational institutions and agree that they have no bona fide academic accomplishments to their name, and are no longer qualified for anything but unskilled labor?


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It all worked before Clinton and the GOP overturned Glass Steagall.
> 
> Obama, Dodd and Frank created a bill to institutionalize "To Big to Fail" as opposed to simply reinstating G/S.



Did it? Did you forget the 1990 Saving and Loan Crisis, that happened even though Glass Seagel was in place? 





__





						Savings and loan crisis - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




One third of S&L's failed in that time period.  The problem wasn't regulations, it was lax enforcement.   Same with the 2008 crisis.  

I remember when my mortgage got sold to another company because the guy who ran the place that gave me my initial mortgage had bought himself a huge yacht with the proceeds of his S&L.  

I love the child-like view of economics of Bernie Bros.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, disability is a government program I paid into my entire working life. Kids don't pay into a government program for college loans they don't want to pay back stupid.



So what you are arguing is we should give you money even though you've outlived your usefulness to the one Percent, 

But we shouldn't invest in these kids who have futures of productivity. 

Does this make sense to you in your mindset.  

Good thing you have liberalism to save you from... yourself.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > It all worked before Clinton and the GOP overturned Glass Steagall.
> ...



The S&L thing did not crash the economy did it? Why is that?

Also, we prosecuted those (largely) involved in that unlike the 2008 debacle. Why was that?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 10, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > If I recall, 10 years was the payback on those.
> ...



The normal term is 10 years.  The only exceptions are consolidation loans.  Your 'kid' is obviously lacking in intelligence like someone else we all know.

Now, kiss my ass you dumb cock holster!


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > the business isn't getting the education; the student is.
> ...



No, dumbass, THE STUDENT is profiting from the education more than anyone.  THEY are the ones getting better-paying jobs - assuming they've spent their college time learning something useful - and THEY are the ones taking that education with them wherever they go.

The business, on the other hand, is RENTING the use of that student's education, and that student can pick up and take that education to their competitors whenever they like.  So you tell me how the business "has more of an obligation" to an education they can't really control and keep for themselves.  The student OWNS that education; the business does not.

Trying to make a moral argument for "someone else should give me whatever I want, with no obligation on my part" only demonstrates that you wouldn't recognize an actual moral if it crawled up your pants leg.

You mention the military in one of your posts.  First of all, the military trains the soldier because they tend to require specialized skills that aren't readily available in and don't necessarily translate to the civilian world.  Also, you might notice, the military requires you to work for them, non-negotiable, for a period of time in exchange for that training.  Choosing to take your skills and pick up and leave before that time is up is actually a criminal offense.  Are you suggesting that private businesses should be allowed to operate the same way?

Are 18-year-olds adults, or aren't they?  You think it's perfectly fine to give them the responsibilities of voting for the leader of the free world, marrying, buying property, joining the military and risking their lives - one assumes - but when it comes to understanding debt before they take it on, they're suddenly dribbling babies who can't be trusted to feed themselves properly.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


 
 Businesses can create an agreement where the student gets educated and then agree's to work for that company for X years. I know Pharmacies used to take advantage of this quite a bit  (I have no idea if they still do). 



> Trying to make a moral argument for "someone else should give me whatever I want, with no obligation on my part" only demonstrates that you wouldn't recognize an actual moral if it crawled up your pants leg.
> 
> Are 18-year-olds adults, or aren't they?  You think it's perfectly fine to give them the responsibilities of voting for the leader of the free world, marrying, buying property, joining the military and risking their lives - one assumes - but when it comes to understanding debt before they take it on, they're suddenly dribbling babies who can't be trusted to feel themselves properly.


 
 We "give" billions to the markets every year. Do they not understand that profits were not supposed to be guaranteed year after year?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...



Education may be a capital investment, but it's YOUR investment as a student, because it's YOUR capital.  The vast majority of people these days have multiple employers throughout their lives.  All of those employers benefit from the education of the employee, so which one of them has the "responsibility" of paying for the education for all of them to use?

Human beings are not software; they are not hardware.  My employer purchases inanimate equipment and supplies, and those objects become their property forever.  I, on the other hand, still belong to me.  What is in my head belongs to me.  They rent my services, which I can easily take to their competitors whenever I feel like it.  You are suggesting that humans be treated like property when it comes to paying for things you want to be given without obligation on your part, but I doubt you are willing to carry that analogy out to its conclusion.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...



He doesn't seem to be aware that tuition reimbursement programs ALWAYS contain a clause specifying that the employee MUST work for the company for X amount of time after the education in order to pay it off.  If they leave before that time is up, they have to pay it back, because the company has not used those skills sufficiently to pay back their investment.  Also, you have to already BE an employee for a certain amount of time first; they aren't going to hire you off the street and then send you to school.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



And I'm guessing they also required the employee to remain in their employ for a certain amount of time to justify the cost to the company.  They didn't just let them get the degree and then prance off to their competitors.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> He doesn't seem to be aware that tuition reimbursement programs ALWAYS contain a clause specifying that the employee MUST work for the company for X amount of time after the education in order to pay it off. If they leave before that time is up, they have to pay it back, because the company has not used those skills sufficiently to pay back their investment. Also, you have to already BE an employee for a certain amount of time first; they aren't going to hire you off the street and then send you to school.



Yep, that's what my employer did for his employees that have been with him for years.  We had tractor-trailer drivers and straight truck drivers which are two different licenses.  He always had one or two straight truck drivers with a Class A (tractor-trailer) license as a backup for when one of us were off for illness or vacation.  

The straight truck driver had to get his temps.  An experienced driver took him out on weekends to teach him how to drive a T/T.  When our experienced driver felt he drove good enough to pass the test, they both went out to get him his written and road test complete.  When he passed, we always had him as backup.  They would advance to full time T/T job when one became available.  The guy that took my job when I left was our backup.  

My employer also realized that with a Class A, that straight truck driver could find a better paying job driving T/T full-time somewhere else.  So he made them sign a three year contract in order to be trained and get his Class A license.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Businesses can create an agreement where the student gets educated and then agree's to work for that company for X years. I know Pharmacies used to take advantage of this quite a bit (I have no idea if they still do).



But they are still able to do the job until that education is complete.  That doesn't apply to most industries.  If a company needs an engineer, they can't pay for all the education for that person to become an engineer and then start working.  They needed an engineer that can start immediately.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Businesses can create an agreement where the student gets educated and then agree's to work for that company for X years. I know Pharmacies used to take advantage of this quite a bit (I have no idea if they still do).
> ...



 There is all kinds of work done in an office setting not actually done by the engineer. Both the engineer and the pharmacist student would be spending most of their time in class.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> So what you are arguing is we should give you money even though you've outlived your usefulness to the one Percent,
> 
> But we shouldn't invest in these kids who have futures of productivity.
> 
> ...



Yes, that's the way it works in our society.  You work all your life and then get back what you paid into the government in the end if you live long enough.  If you don't, you paid all that money for nothing.  Yep, socialism.  It's not an optional program.  When you work, you are mandated to be part of it.  

While I don't want to be repetitive, it makes no sense for a taxpayer to fund the education of a doctor, and when that taxpayer needs that doctor they paid to educate, gets charged $200.00 for a 20 minute office visit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> There is all kinds of work done in an office setting not actually done by the engineer. Both the engineer and the pharmacist student would be spending most of their time in class.



But most jobs are not like that.  If a drug store needs a pharmacist, they don't have six years to wait for one.  They need one right now.  I don't know anything about that line of work, but I'm assuming that somebody that isn't a pharmacist won't be able to do at least some of the work a pharmacist does while still being profitable to the drug store.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > There is all kinds of work done in an office setting not actually done by the engineer. Both the engineer and the pharmacist student would be spending most of their time in class.
> ...


 
 They are perfectly capable of planning for the future.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > He doesn't seem to be aware that tuition reimbursement programs ALWAYS contain a clause specifying that the employee MUST work for the company for X amount of time after the education in order to pay it off. If they leave before that time is up, they have to pay it back, because the company has not used those skills sufficiently to pay back their investment. Also, you have to already BE an employee for a certain amount of time first; they aren't going to hire you off the street and then send you to school.
> ...



The year that I spent as a truck driver, I got my CDL training through my prospective employer.  I had to sign a contract agreeing that I would work for them for a certain amount of time to pay off the cost of training me.  It's not the first time I've availed myself of employer-paid training, although it's the only time it was ever done as a new hire.  Because of that, I also had to accept getting paid less per mile than a new hire who already had a CDL and experience.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Cursive is useless. I have not used it since high school and I am 60 years old.



I still write checks for tax deductible items so I have a paper trail.  My bank sends back photo copies of the canceled checks.  Then I can categorize them, do the math, and present the results to my tax preparer.  The more work I can do on taxes myself, the less she charges.  

If I get audited, I don't have to show the IRS all my bank statements with selected deductions.  I can give them photo copies of the checks of questionable payments only showing who I sent money to and why.  

But as I said earlier, if somebody had to fill out a police report, I'd love to see one written by a person that doesn't know cursive.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > So what you are arguing is we should give you money even though you've outlived your usefulness to the one Percent,
> ...



Twenty minutes?  Damn, aren't YOU the optimist.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > There is all kinds of work done in an office setting not actually done by the engineer. Both the engineer and the pharmacist student would be spending most of their time in class.
> ...



Pharmacists, like doctors, have to be licensed.  Much of the work in a pharmacy is done by pharmacy assistants, but they have to be supervised by a licensed pharmacist, and only the pharmacist can explain the use and possible side effects of medicines to a patient, or make possible pharmaceutical suggestions (such as generic substitutes) or give advice.  I believe there are some medications that can only be dispensed by the pharmacist, as well, but I won't swear to that.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Twenty minutes? Damn, aren't YOU the optimist.



Sometimes less.  All my followups are the same way every time.  The nurse takes my weight and blood pressure.  The doctor comes in, checks the heart and breathing, looks at my eyes, asks the same ole questions while I nod my head yes, and I'm out of there in 15 minutes. $280.00. 

Today is the eye doctor.  Same thing.  Nurse will give me eye drops, ask a bunch of dumb questions, do some vision tests, and the doctor will come in and look in my eyes with that scope, and tell me when my cataract surgery is going to be. From the time she walks in until I leave, less than 20 minutes.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Businesses can create an agreement where the student gets educated and then agree's to work for that company for X years. I know Pharmacies used to take advantage of this quite a bit  (I have no idea if they still do).



I've been saying for many years we need to get back into apprenticeships and less classroom schooling.  I have an Associate's Degree from a business school and then a Bachelor's and MBA from two different universities.  I learned a lot from the business school because it had a more practical focus.  I learned some stuff from the higher degree education at the universities, but most of what I do today I learned on the job.  

Universities need to cut out the bullshit two years of liberal arts requirements.  Shorten those requirements to one year with a focus more towards the major you're wanting and then your senior year should be mostly apprenticing at an actual company doing a job in your field.  You get the experience they want and you need to get a job and they get more affordable labor while you're apprenticing.  It's a win win.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


They extend them past the ten years--at least they did for my son-in-law.  The guarantee may end and the lender figures if they can keep the student paying, it is better than collections or a total loss.  IDK.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Businesses can create an agreement where the student gets educated and then agree's to work for that company for X years. I know Pharmacies used to take advantage of this quite a bit  (I have no idea if they still do).
> ...



 I support the idea of making electives less of getting your education to bring costs down. In some cases an apprenticeship can work and in many other it can't so we are just generalizing. 

 Using the Pharmacy example while I support things like the Pharmacy offering paid schooling for X years of the employee's services we all have seen how busy a pharmacist generally is. He does not have the time to teach everything that is needed to be learned to become a pharmacist.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


There were NO strings attached to undergrad degrees, post grad degrees had some requirements, chief among them, the degree had to advance them in their chosen field in the company.  There were no length of employment requirements.  I have worked for a few larger companies and a couple of smaller ones that provided this benefit.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Twenty minutes? Damn, aren't YOU the optimist.
> ...



The last time I spent twenty whole minutes in a room with a medical professional was when I got a root canal.  Not sure I've ever done so without getting a major procedure done.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



So they were willing to pay out the money for you to get a degree, and then have you immediately jump ship to their competitors before the ink was dry on the diploma?  I'm really dubious about that.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > What a dumb thing to say.
> ...



Cursive? What is this, 1960? I haven't used cursive in 20 years.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


I've worked at companies that have educational benefits.  That's the way they look at it, as a benefit.  They will pay for one or two classes per year.  It's a relatively small amount of money.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> I am glad you ask this because it acknowledges that you agree that this is their rightful cost.
> 
> How to accomplish this? Simple, whatever educational requirements a business has should be collected as a tax.
> So if a company requires an MBA, a company must pay a tax amount comparable to that cost.


This is weapon-grade stupid.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> The last time I spent twenty whole minutes in a room with a medical professional was when I got a root canal. Not sure I've ever done so without getting a major procedure done.



No, not major procedures.  But regular checkups are about that give or take five minutes.  Everything they need to know about you is on their computer screen.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Be dubious all you want.  There are numerous companies that do it.  I worked for my last employer for 33 years, but I attended school during my time with other smaller companies for sometimes less than two years.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...


The companies I worked for paid all tuition and books.  It was a substantial amount--you were required to pay the taxes if any.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > He doesn't seem to be aware that tuition reimbursement programs ALWAYS contain a clause specifying that the employee MUST work for the company for X amount of time after the education in order to pay it off. If they leave before that time is up, they have to pay it back, because the company has not used those skills sufficiently to pay back their investment. Also, you have to already BE an employee for a certain amount of time first; they aren't going to hire you off the street and then send you to school.
> ...


How long do these classes last, three months?  It's not the same as paying for 4 years to get a bachelor's degree.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


It's a lot less than your medical benefits.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > He doesn't seem to be aware that tuition reimbursement programs ALWAYS contain a clause specifying that the employee MUST work for the company for X amount of time after the education in order to pay it off. If they leave before that time is up, they have to pay it back, because the company has not used those skills sufficiently to pay back their investment. Also, you have to already BE an employee for a certain amount of time first; they aren't going to hire you off the street and then send you to school.
> ...


My company gave me time to go (4-day workweek) and paid for (reimbursed) about half the cost of driving school to get my class A license.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Cursive is useless. I have not used it since high school and I am 60 years old.
> ...


Last police reports I saw were typed.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



My sister got her Master's degree in Health Administration through her company's tuition reimbursement program.  She had to agree to put that degree to use with that company for X number of years (I don't remember how long, off the top of my head) if she doesn't want to become responsible for paying it back.  Of course, I don't think that's much of a hardship, since she works for one of the best companies in our area for that field, and they pay her obscene amounts of money AND happily let her work from home even without Covid.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > The last time I spent twenty whole minutes in a room with a medical professional was when I got a root canal. Not sure I've ever done so without getting a major procedure done.
> ...



When I say "medical professional", I'm talking a doctor or nurse practitioner.  My checkups are performed by a medical assistant, maybe a nurse, with a quick five-minute visit for the doctor to come in and read the results at me.  Of course, I'm obscenely healthy, so my checkups rarely involve much.

I guess we could count my annual Pap smear, which is performed by a gynecologist.  I prefer not to think about those (bleh).


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



Oh, I plan to be incredibly dubious, unless and until you provide something other than your word for it.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> My company gave me time to go (4-day workweek) and paid for (reimbursed) about half the cost of driving school to get my class A license.



My employer just decided to put his other employees to work to train the new drivers.  It worked out real well for both employees and himself.  The straight truck guys already knew our customers, knew our operation, knew what to expect.  When he did it the old way like hiring guys he didn't know, they were either a pain in the ass or quit in a couple of months.  He knew what he was getting by training our current staff.  I guess driving schools are okay, but what can they do that one of our employees couldn't?  It saved my employer money at the same time.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > My company gave me time to go (4-day workweek) and paid for (reimbursed) about half the cost of driving school to get my class A license.
> ...



I couldn't. One driver tried, but another driver bitched and got it stopped. (I'd never train with that prick.)


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> When I say "medical professional", I'm talking a doctor or nurse practitioner. My checkups are performed by a medical assistant, maybe a nurse, with a quick five-minute visit for the doctor to come in and read the results at me. Of course, I'm obscenely healthy, so my checkups rarely involve much.



Yeah, it was always that way, but these nurse practitioners do a lot of what a doctor does.  In relation to paying for the education of a doctor, you only really see him or her for about 20 minutes.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Last time I had to interact with the police (as a witness), the initial report was hand-written, because the officer was doing it on the scene.  The later, more official and comprehensive report was done on a computer.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> e couldn't. Mostly: our lease with Ryder explicitly prohibits permit drivers from using the trucks.



We never dealt with them.  We used Penske, and we carried our own insurance so their only requirement is that we bring back the truck at the end of the lease in the same shape they gave it to us.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > When I say "medical professional", I'm talking a doctor or nurse practitioner. My checkups are performed by a medical assistant, maybe a nurse, with a quick five-minute visit for the doctor to come in and read the results at me. Of course, I'm obscenely healthy, so my checkups rarely involve much.
> ...



Which is fine, if you're just getting a wellness checkup.  Of course, one assumes you're also paying for his expertise in reviewing your file and what his employees did.  I would hope so, anyway.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Last time I had to interact with the police (as a witness), the initial report was hand-written, because the officer was doing it on the scene.  The later, more official and comprehensive report was done on a computer.



The guy typed his report out on the laptop in his car.  Witness statements were handwritten, then typed and saved to the report.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> We never dealt with them.  We used Penske, and we carried our own insurance so their only requirement is that we bring back the truck at the end of the lease in the same shape they gave it to us.



Also, another driver bitched and got it stopped, because he was the only "official" driver trainer. Unfortunately, by the time he was gone, the no-permit-drivers thing was in the lease contract.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> Also, another driver bitched and got it stopped, because he was the only "official" driver trainer. Unfortunately, by the time he was gone, the no-permit-drivers thing was in the lease contract.



I only dealt with Ryder once when I first got my Class A back in the 90's.  I got the tractor and they made me take a road test with one of their guys.  How Fn stupid.  Penske is pretty liberal, especially once you get to know the guys.  When we first started to use them, they wouldn't even let me install my radio.  They demanded to install it, even though it was only a few screws.  The power cord and antenna were already on the thing.  When I switched trucks and asked them if I could transfer my CB to the new one, they said "Sure!  Go ahead.  Our guys can do better things."


----------



## Orangecat (Feb 10, 2021)

Lesh said:


> Orangecat said:
> 
> 
> > How about the alternative of not purchasing something you can't afford? Everyone has that option.
> ...


No. There would still be scholarships for the intellectually adept and, gasp, saving up for college.


> I don't think you'd actually like that country


Then you don't think. Not my problem.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


The military has like requirements for students that attend their academies as well.  Those students attend full time, however and must perform compulsory military service for an equal amount of time.  Some states have programs that pay for medical professionals' education in return for a like number of years that the students provides services to underserved areas.  The companies that I referred to had no such requirements--I actually knew of a case where a mediocre employee earned a BA on the company's dime.  After graduating, he threw a fit and they fired him.  But for every one like him the company had easily 50 success stories--I was one.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


The company that I worked for paid tuition and books for four year schools.  These classes were taken while you were a full time employee, but they could be from any accredited school, community college or university.  Among larger companies, I don't think it is unusual, but many smaller companies have tuition reimbursement programs.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


I don't normally do research for those disbelievers who are too lazy to do their own, but I'll make an exception this time--   25+ Companies with Tuition Reimbursement Programs      SMH.


----------



## justinacolmena (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> One third of S&L's failed in that time period. The problem wasn't regulations, it was lax enforcement. Same with the 2008 crisis.


Sure. Enforce the laws fairly. Lately the IRS has been targeting conservative and Republican businesses, political organizations, and charities to bleed them dry, while refusing to enforce the law against Democrats.


JoeB131 said:


> I remember when my mortgage got sold to another company because the guy who ran the place that gave me my initial mortgage had bought himself a huge yacht with the proceeds of his S&L.


Why do you work so hard for someone else to own a yacht and fuck your wife? The 30-year mortgage with a diamond wedding ring is wholly a Democrat institution. There's a lady sporting a pair of diamond earrings, the man is "house-bound" under all that debt with a ball and chain on his foot, and they only have kids as the economy, their lifestyle, and the woman's "choice" as mediated by the OB/GYN pimp at the local hospital permit.


JoeB131 said:


> I love the child-like view of economics of Bernie Bros.


It's just bread-and-circuses, isn't it? Pull the wool over our eyes, steal our money, and revoke our rights. Damn.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I only dealt with Ryder once when I first got my Class A back in the 90's.  I got the tractor and they made me take a road test with one of their guys.  How Fn stupid.  Penske is pretty liberal, especially once you get to know the guys.  When we first started to use them, they wouldn't even let me install my radio.  They demanded to install it, even though it was only a few screws.  The power cord and antenna were already on the thing.  When I switched trucks and asked them if I could transfer my CB to the new one, they said "Sure!  Go ahead.  Our guys can do better things."



I hate Ryder. The trucks are absolute shit, from the specs to the service. We have had 2 trucks with CEL on for months. One of those and another tractor doesn't power trailer ABS. Another is dripping DEF.  Two of our rentals are totally used up...one with 450,000 miles (DEF leak, bad ABS) and one with 519,000 (CEL). The mileage isn't too bad for OTR, but these are city trucks (One has 30,000 engine hours.)

Whoever spec'd our three new tractors is an idiot. They are Freightliner M2s with 350HP Cummins L9 engines...and 5.38 gears, and Allison automatics...that start in second gear. (Wait, what?)  Result: they're slow, noisy, and guzzle fuel (about the same mileage as our twin screw, with its 500HP 15-litre Cummins and 490,000 miles), because they're spinning 1900RPM at 65. With bigger engines, more power (410HP DD13, 400HP ISX12,, 375HP ISM), and physically larger, the Cascadias and our one International LT use less fuel.


----------



## Orangecat (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> I pay it off in total every month and I haven't paid a dime of interest in over 10 years--they even give me miles.


That's how I roll, too. All the conveniences of credit cards and they actually refund a percentage every time you to use them.


----------



## Orangecat (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Your "template" is "from each according to his ability and to each according to his need." where have we heard the before?


They're all the useful idiots of the marxist equation.


----------



## Orangecat (Feb 10, 2021)

dblack said:


> The more sensible relief would be to revoke that aspect, allow students in over their head to file bankruptcy, like anyone else in that spot.


Education loans are not like car loans, the lender who you're fucking over can't repossess your education as a partial mitigation of their loss.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



Newsflash, Mensa Boy:  you still haven't "done research".  What you did was find a link that "proved"companies offer tuition assistance programs - which only a shitbrained moron would think I ever disputed - and then triumphantly declared that it "proved" the point I did dispute - that companies offer tuition assistance without expecting any commitment in return.

Congratulations.  You have now achieved thinking and debating like a leftist.  If you still have any pretensions of actually being a person, with a functioning cerebral cortex, you should be very ashamed of your existence at this point.

If you can stop wagging your head mindlessly back and forth a moment, let me show you how research and proof are ACTUALLY done (always assuming you haven't pussied out and run away because I talked mean to you).

From your list:

AT&T - program does not apply to courses that begin before you have been employed for six months (page 2); if you quit two years or less after you receive the tuition assistance, you have to repay the funds (page 10).



			https://www.cwa3207.org/forms/ATT%20TAP.pdf#:~:text=The%20AT%26T%20Non-Management%20Tuition%20Assistance%20Plan%20provides%20reimbursement,the%20responsibility%20of%20the%20AT%26T%20Tuition%20Assistance%20Center
		

.

BP - only covers approved courses which benefit BP (page 2); if you quit within a certain time period after completing the course, you repay the funds (page 6).



			https://hr.bpglobal.com/LifeBenefits/getfile/a9f5a2f9-538b-43ea-a47b-f83239c04b1a/JAS_08-28-06_educational_assistance.aspx
		


Now, those are just the first two which made their entire tuition program available online, and already they prove ME right, rather than you.  Shall I go on, or would you like to apologize in abject humiliation?


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> Sure. Enforce the laws fairly. Lately the IRS has been targeting conservative and Republican businesses, political organizations, and charities to bleed them dry, while refusing to enforce the law against Democrats.



I am so sick of the "just make up persecution stories" from Trumpism. 

I really think we need the 
trumpist problem dealt with before anything else can be addressed.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


I tried to maintain a semblance of civility with your ignorant ass.  Of course, they do not pay for education you received before you were employed there.  Use some common sense you useless piece of skin around a kunt.  sp


----------



## justinacolmena (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> I am so sick of the "just make up persecution stories" from Trumpism.


I'm sick and tired of being blackballed and shitlisted by Democrats.


noonereal said:


> I really think we need the
> trumpist problem dealt with before anything else can be addressed.


And I don't appreciate the Democrats attitude of murder-for-hire or the overt attempts to murder me.

DEMOCRATS ARE MURDERERS.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> They should be teaching kids about stuff like that.



They should teach that you pay interest on credit cards? I sure as hell never had a course like this and neither did you, if you are honest.


----------



## justinacolmena (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You don't need cursive? I'd love to see you fill out a police report and see what it looks like when you're done.


That's the problem with Democrats right there.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > So you understand how broken the system is.
> ...




Why do you prefer the non working investor class profit on the backs of our youth? 

Listen, I know the answer, you don't but you should be able to follow along to my bias neutral breakdown of the system.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...


It's your research, NAZI.  We aren't required to produce the evidence to support your claims.


----------



## justinacolmena (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Why do you prefer the non working investor class profit on the backs of our youth?


Somebody's got to have the money to invest ina business to put the youth to work, and let them make money to get started.


noonereal said:


> Listen, I know the answer, you don't but you should be able to follow along to my bias neutral breakdown of the system.


Oh, yeah, businesses have to make a profit, to, well, you know, stay in business.

People got to be honest. You can't just put in your hours and draw a wage with lip service like that.








						Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 6:6-13 - King James Version
					

Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye...




					www.biblegateway.com
				



Masters and servants, employers and employees, come on, we're not talking about slavery here, only that a man's word is is his bond when he agrees to do a certain job for a certain wage, or else he gives his notice and quits.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


When I need lip from your trolling ass, I'll rattle my zipper.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Cursive is useless. I have not used it since high school and I am 60 years old.
> ...



I am still not seeing the significance here.  Most documents such as an police report require you to print.  I have never seen one conducive to cursive.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...


The investor class doesn't profit off of anyone's back, moron.  In fact, there isn't even such a thing as an "investor class."  Anyone who has a retirement fund is an investor.  They provide the capital that creates jobs.  Our youth benefit from investement that creates jobs.  Only minions of the Democrat Reich are too stupid to understand that.  People like you are destroying the world because you promote this horseshit.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...


You'll get my lip whether you want it or not.  In fact, whining about it only motivates me to dish out a lot more of it.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


I've never seen a signature that was printed.  What do you propose to do about that?


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Your immaturity is noted. 

Peace


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Yeah, I realized you were a troll a long time ago.  When I get tired of your bullshit, I'll just cancel your ass, like I do every other trolling moron on this board that ceases to entertain me.  Rave on.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



You are an idiot.
A Kool-Aid drenched idiot at that. 

You can always enrolled in school. you don't need stay so ignorant.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



I am sorry, you are so sheltered.  Many signatures are just printed.  Also, you can teach someone to do a signature in cursive in about 5 minutes.  Why take all that class time to learn something you never never use?


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



"I tried to be nice, and you just REFUSED to agree with me.  So now I'm going to piss and whine and wait for it to be hugely important to you, because I'm SURE it is!"

Hold your breath while you wait.

No one said anything about education before you were employed there, you fucking moron, and that isn't even a GOOD attempt at dodging away from the fact that you made an ass of yourself.  Too bad for you that I'm not in the mood to let you get away with it today.

From the post thread:

You said this - There were NO strings attached to undergrad degrees, post grad degrees had some requirements, chief among them, the degree had to advance them in their chosen field in the company.  There were no length of employment requirements.  I have worked for a few larger companies and a couple of smaller ones that provided this benefit.

I responded - So they were willing to pay out the money for you to get a degree, and then have you immediately jump ship to their competitors before the ink was dry on the diploma?  I'm really dubious about that.

You then proceeded to "prove" me wrong by posting a list of companies with tuition reimbursements . . . which do NOT allow you to get your education paid for and then immediately leave to work somewhere else, nor do they offer the programs with no strings attached.

I demonstrated that, in fact, your "no strings attached" was wrong WITH YOUR OWN LIST . . . and now you're coming back and trying to pretend that someone, somewhere, claimed that they paid for education prior to employment.

As far as I'm concerned, you just admitted to the whole world that A) you're a fucking moron, if not a liar, and B) you're a tiny-dicked chickenshit who can't admit when he's just had his ass kicked.

I'm done with you.  You may crawl back and attempt to be worthy of more of my attention at a later date, but for this conversation, you have failed and are beneath my notice.  Begone.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



And if he ever has anything behind that zipper, it'll be a miracle.


----------



## ChemEngineer (Feb 10, 2021)

gipper said:


> Yet no one seems to complain about the massive corporate welfare given to Wall Street and the MIC.



Let me inform you and others about "corporate welfare."
1.  It is often used to incentivize hiring people out of work.
2.  It is often used to keep money out of the hands of our enemies, such as Muslim oil states who hate us and are committing terror on a global basis.
3. It is often used to bring businesses into a state where they will generate hundreds of millions in sales tax and income.
You don't like "corporate welfare," vote out the politicians who enacted it.  When it benefits a state or a group, they don't seem to complain.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Anytime someone in a debate forum makes a claim and then tells you to produce the evidence to support it, you know you're talking to a brain damaged moron.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Concerned American said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


Tsk Tsk Tsk, moronic bitch is triggered.  Oh my, whatever shall I do.  I really don't care how long you hang out in your basement world of denial.  I worked for the company and I know how my education was paid for.  You can go on all of the little rants you want, it still will not change the facts.  Carry on little girl, go get you pussy swabbed.


----------



## Concerned American (Feb 10, 2021)

bripat9643 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...


Your feeble attempts to make a valid point failed again.  Enjoy your life, might get those teeth fixed though.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Concerned American said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerned American said:
> ...



Another dumb post.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I am still not seeing the significance here. Most documents such as an police report require you to print. I have never seen one conducive to cursive.



I've filled out a few in my life, and I've always used handwriting.  Never had a problem submitting them.


----------



## gipper (Feb 10, 2021)

ChemEngineer said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Yet no one seems to complain about the massive corporate welfare given to Wall Street and the MIC.
> ...


1. Agreed it does incentivize the 1%. 
2. We have no enemies who can harm the homeland. Stop believing propaganda from the MIC.
3. Corporate welfare can benefit workers if done right. Usually it benefits the 1%, who are donors to the two criminal gangs.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Why do you prefer the non working investor class profit on the backs of our youth?
> 
> Listen, I know the answer, you don't but you should be able to follow along to my bias neutral breakdown of the system.



That's how businesses make money, by having labor do the work.  It's that way today and always has been that way in this country.  If you want to do a particular job, then it's up to you to get the education to do that job.  A lot of jobs require experience.  It's up to you to find a way to get that experience, not the employer being obligated for you to get experience.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> They should teach that you pay interest on credit cards? I sure as hell never had a course like this and neither did you, if you are honest.



I did have a class like that.  It was called Civics.  They taught you about interest rates, how to write checks, how to balance a check book, compound interest, how house loans work and what you end up paying in interest by the time the loan is repaid, just a load of great information.  Today it seems younger people were never taught things like that.  They don't even manually deduct expenses when they spend money.  I see them in the store use their debit card, and then throw the receipt in the garbage when they leave the checkout line.  I keep my receipts, and when I get home, write down what I purchased and deduct it from my checking account.  I usually use cash to buy most stuff, but if I didn't bring enough, I end up using my debit card.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> I really think we need the
> trumpist problem dealt with before anything else can be addressed.



I think you're going to be real disappointed.  Trump was not just a President, Trump is a movement.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Maybe you should realize it's 2021 not 1961? 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Civics. They taught you about interest rates, how to write checks, how to balance a check book, compound interest, how house loans work



WTF has any of this to do with civics? 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Today it seems younger people were never taught things like that.



I repeat, either were we. You learned it in the home. Parents actually taught kids stuff, just like today. That your family does not teach their kids is on you, them, not school or sociaty. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> They don't even manually deduct expenses when they spend money.



Why on earth should anyone? It's 2021, I have all this info immediately available to me without doing anything manually.



Ray From Cleveland said:


> They don't even manually deduct expenses when they spend money.



It would be wasting time if they did. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I see them in the store use their debit card, and then throw the receipt in the garbage when they leave the checkout line.



And why would you? I know I do the same. 


Ray From Cleveland said:


> I keep my receipts, and when I get home, write down what I purchased and deduct it from my checking account.



Honest, this is fuckin insane . Like I said earlier, it is 2021. You should join the rest of us. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> I usually use cash to buy most stuff, but if I didn't bring enough, I end up using my debit card.



I stopped carrying cash 10 years ago. Why you haven't just means you have not adjusted to life in the new century. 

Last century I always carried 10 $100 bills. Why on earth would I do that now? I wouldn't. 

You realize, all you are saying in this post is that you have let time pass you by. 

Peace brother, thank God I am not like you. I like living in 2021. It rocks!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> I hate Ryder. The trucks are absolute shit, from the specs to the service. We have had 2 trucks with CEL on for months. One of those and another tractor doesn't power trailer ABS. Another is dripping DEF. Two of our rentals are totally used up...one with 450,000 miles (DEF leak, bad ABS) and one with 519,000 (CEL). The mileage isn't too bad for OTR, but these are city trucks (One has 30,000 engine hours.)
> 
> Whoever spec'd our three new tractors is an idiot. They are Freightliner M2s with 350HP Cummins L9 engines...and 5.38 gears, and Allison automatics...that start in second gear. (Wait, what?) Result: they're slow, noisy, and guzzle fuel (about the same mileage as our twin screw, with its 500HP 15-litre Cummins and 490,000 miles), because they're spinning 1900RPM at 65. With bigger engines, more power (410HP DD13, 400HP ISX12,, 375HP ISM), and physically larger, the Cascadias and our one International LT use less fuel.



That's what our was, Cascadia.  I don't know much about automatic transmissions.  In fact if I got in a tractor today with one, I'd probably be lost for a while.  My employer offered to get me one, and I refused.  I'm old school.  I don't know how you get out of a snow covered inclined dock with those things.  That and bob-tailing were my two biggest concerns.  The drivers that used them told me there is good and bad with automatic transmissions.  When bob-tailing, I skip gears and get that tractor going like a race car.  I'd start off in 4th gear and go like hell.  I didn't want to bob-tail staring off in first gear.  The drivers that had the later models said they improved on that. 

The only complaint I really had about Penske tractors is they had a 70mph governor on the transmission.  I asked the mechanic one time if he could remove it, and he said it's company policy they all have them.  He told me they do so to make the oil last longer.  Staying under 70 doesn't break the oil down as much.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> WTF has any of this to do with civics?



Hey, I don't know.  I'm just telling you what the class was called. 



noonereal said:


> I repeat, either were we. You learned it in the home. Parents actually taught kids stuff, just like today. That your family does not teach their kids is on you, them, not school or sociaty.



Well what about the parents that don't?  I believe high school is to prepare a kid for adult life in anyway they can.  Nothing can be more important than finances.  They don't know anything about it.  That's how credit card companies reel them in.  They get their first credit card and spend like they never have to pay it back.  Then they get buried in debt for the next four or five years paying a ton of interest on crap they didn't need.  

Look at this thread for instance.  People with so much debt because they went to school.  If people were taught finances, they'd get the calculator out to see where they will stand if or when they graduate, and weigh if it was worth it or not.  You see, if I was younger and wanted to go to college, by understanding debt, interest, actual numbers, I would have never taken school loans out right out of high school.  I probably would have lived with mom and pop for a few years, saved all my money, and go to college at 21.  After graduation and getting into the field of work I studied for, I would be debt free or nearly debt free.  




noonereal said:


> It would be wasting time if they did.



It doesn't waste my time.  I know what I have in the bank the minute I get home.  I can better plan my spending that way. 




noonereal said:


> Honest, this is fuckin insane . Like I said earlier, it is 2021. You should join the rest of us.



I don't call being lazy joining 2021. 



noonereal said:


> I stopped carrying cash 10 years ago. Why you haven't just means you have not adjusted to life in the new century.
> 
> Last century I always carried 10 $100 bills. Why on earth would I do that now? I wouldn't.
> 
> ...



When you pay with cards you expose your identity to strangers.  They caught one guy working at a Burger King drive-thru window using his phone to take snapshots of credit cards.  While it never happened to me, I understand identity theft can take a long time to clear up.  

That's besides the fact most of my tenants pay me in cash, and instead of running to the bank to make deposits, I use the cash instead.  In fact in late summer, I had a furnace replaced.  The guy shit himself when I laid out $3,200 in cash.  He said as long as he's been in business, nobody has every paid that way for a major purchase.


----------



## Rambunctious (Feb 10, 2021)

If our government is going to forgive students of their debt shouldn't they do the same for other folks that have loans with uncle Sam?...aren't we suppose to be treated equally by our government in America?...how about SBA loan forgiveness and VA home loan forgiveness why are students being singled out?...I smell an unconstitutional act here...


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Rambunctious said:


> If our government is going to forgive students of their debt shouldn't they do the same for other folks that have loans with uncle Sam?...aren't we suppose to be treated equally by our government in America?...how about SBA loan forgiveness and VA home loan forgiveness why are students being singled out?...I smell an unconstitutional act here...




now mind you, I do not support forgiving student loans but this post of yours which conflates all loans as the same is inane. 

You need to learn to debate and not run to a fallacy because you can't express yourself like an educated poster.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Hey, I don't know. I'm just telling you what the class was called.



I think your memory is bad. Civic class does not teach personal banking. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Well what about the parents that don't? I believe high school is to prepare a kid for adult life in anyway they can. Nothing can be more important than finances. They don't know anything about it. That's how credit card companies reel them in. They get their first credit card and spend like they never have to pay it back. Then they get buried in debt for the next four or five years paying a ton of interest on crap they didn't need.
> 
> Look at this thread for instance. People with so much debt because they went to school. If people were taught finances, they'd get the calculator out to see where they will stand if or when they graduate, and weigh if it was worth it or not. You see, if I was younger and wanted to go to college, by understanding debt, interest, actual numbers, I would have never taken school loans out right out of high school. I probably would have lived with mom and pop for a few years, saved all my money, and go to college at 21. After graduation and getting into the field of work I studied for, I would be debt free or nearly debt free.



My kids were never confused about any of this. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> It doesn't waste my time. I know what I have in the bank the minute I get home. I can better plan my spending that way.



Well, the kids you seem to feel superior to know their balance before they get home. It's called technology. 


Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't call being lazy joining 2021.



Nothing lazy about it. That you perceive it as such just shows how stuck you are in yesteryear. 
Technology frees our time to pursue more substantive pursuits.  I have no desire stay put in utilitarian tasks when it's not needed. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> When you pay with cards you expose your identity to strangers. They caught one guy working at a Burger King drive-thru window using his phone to take snapshots of credit cards. While it never happened to me, I understand identity theft can take a long time to clear up.
> 
> That's besides the fact most of my tenants pay me in cash, and instead of running to the bank to make deposits, I use the cash instead. In fact in late summer, I had a furnace replaced. The guy shit himself when I laid out $3,200 in cash. He said as long as he's been in business, nobody has every paid that way for a major purchase.



My cards have been lifted. You pay at a restaurant and someone grabs your number. Happens every day. It's decidedly no big deal. Literally, 99 out of 100 times your bank will alter you this has happened. The security algorithms are so sophisticated that banks use today that they find use way before you ever could. 
You never skip a beat even if someone grabs your card number. 
You sound like you simply don't understand how things work... like you are scared of the dark, what you don't understand. 
Not for nothing, $3,200 in cash was a big thing for your guy? I always keep cash around for stuff like this and have never had anyone blink. Car repairs, electricians, plumbers... many times. 
Heck, I paid $20,000 in cash for an engagement dinner for my daughter and no one blinked an eye. 

Also, how did you get a furnace replaced for $3,200? No such deals like that around here available.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> > If our government is going to forgive students of their debt shouldn't they do the same for other folks that have loans with uncle Sam?...aren't we suppose to be treated equally by our government in America?...how about SBA loan forgiveness and VA home loan forgiveness why are students being singled out?...I smell an unconstitutional act here...
> ...



This is your idea of "how to debate", where you just declare his post inane and tell him he's not educated?  Seems to me if you were half as good as your ego thinks you are, you might know enough to explain WHY his post is "inane" and "a fallacy".

YOU need to learn to debate and not run to condescending insults because you can't express yourself like an educated poster.

I'll even give you some guidelines, since I'm pretty sure you're new to this whole "logic and reason" concept.

In what way are federal student loans different from and more special than VA or SBA loans, and therefore more deserving of allowing their intelligent, sane adult borrowers to just blow off the repayment?  Why is it not preferential treatment, and therefore a violation of equal treatment by the federal government, to pat some borrowers on the head and say, "Oh, poor thing.  It's much too hard for you to have to pay the debts you knowingly incurred?  We'll just eat that cost for you", while pointing at other borrowers and saying, "You!  Pay up every cent, or else!"?

Take your time.  I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself on your first outing in the new territory of thinking.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> This is your idea of "how to debate",



No, it is teh universally accepted method of debate. Fallacy is unacceptable in debate and that is what you defaulted to. 



Cecilie1200 said:


> you might know enough to explain WHY his post is "inane" and "a fallacy".




I did explain, read my post again. Maybe more slowly?



Cecilie1200 said:


> In what way are federal student loans different from and more special than VA or SBA loans, and therefore more deserving of allowing their intelligent, sane adult borrowers to just blow off the repayment?



I did not say student loans were "more special" or that they should be allowed to be blown off. 
I guess if you can't follow the written word, I should not expect you to be able to logically reply. 

You are not a bright person is what you have written here. Not that you understand at all.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > This is your idea of "how to debate",
> ...



"The problem can't be my post.  It must be that you can't understand my brilliance.  Anyone who disagrees with me is automatically too stupid for me to ever explain myself."

Your surrender is accepted.  You may run away now, and try again later.  Because I can keep humiliating you all day long, otherwise.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



You are a dumb fuck. My advise to you.  heed this:
*Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt*


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> The S&L thing did not crash the economy did it? Why is that?
> 
> Also, we prosecuted those (largely) involved in that unlike the 2008 debacle. Why was that?



Actually, it DID Crash the economy, it's why we had the 1991 Recession.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > The S&L thing did not crash the economy did it? Why is that?
> ...



 It didn't crash the economy. Neither would have the crash in 2008 if G/S hadn't been overturned.


----------



## Bush92 (Feb 10, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


It's called "Marxism." Won't happen. Just more showboat shit to indoctrinate young leftist guppies.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, that's the way it works in our society. You work all your life and then get back what you paid into the government in the end if you live long enough. If you don't, you paid all that money for nothing. Yep, socialism. It's not an optional program. When you work, you are mandated to be part of it.



That's not the system you advocate, buddy.  You advocate a system where the rich get most of the profits of your labor and when you are no longer useful to them, they throw you aside for a younger guy who will work for less.  Unless he's a Mexican, that really upsets you. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> While I don't want to be repetitive, it makes no sense for a taxpayer to fund the education of a doctor, and when that taxpayer needs that doctor they paid to educate, gets charged $200.00 for a 20 minute office visit.



Sure it does.  You aren't really paying for that doctor's education.  You are paying for those ladies who figure out the insurance and billing,  keeping the lights on in the office, all the equipment in the office designed to figure out what wrong with you. ("Nurse, he suffers a severe case of bitteroldwhiteguyitis! I'm afraid it's terminal." ) 

Now, I'd be all for free college and socialized medicine, so you don't have to pay $200.00.  You get sick, you go in, get treated done and done.


----------



## Bush92 (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > The S&L thing did not crash the economy did it? Why is that?
> ...


I never though it but I agree with you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It didn't crash the economy. Neither would have the crash in 2008 if G/S hadn't been overturned.



I'm going to assume like most Bernie Bros... you weren't around back then and saw what a shit storm the 1991 recession was.  Otherwise you wouldn't say retarded shit like that.   

I remember getting out of the Army in 1992, and the job market SUCKED.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > It didn't crash the economy. Neither would have the crash in 2008 if G/S hadn't been overturned.
> ...



 I was 30 years old and selling cars. It was nothing like 2008. Also....you skipped the part where people involved in the S&L mess actually went to prison.


----------



## Bush92 (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that's the way it works in our society. You work all your life and then get back what you paid into the government in the end if you live long enough. If you don't, you paid all that money for nothing. Yep, socialism. It's not an optional program. When you work, you are mandated to be part of it.
> ...


Now you just went back to your communist ways. You live in the greatest nation on earth with the best economic and educational opportunity in the world. Get a fucking job and pay for your famial responsibility. If the United is so bad economically than why are people wanting to immigrate here by the millions? If you are born in the United States and can't make-it without a government crutch of special treatment...FUCK YOU BUM.


----------



## Bush92 (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > It didn't crash the economy. Neither would have the crash in 2008 if G/S hadn't been overturned.
> ...


I went from Marines to employment in 5 days. No connections. Just me.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> That's not the system you advocate, buddy. You advocate a system where the rich get most of the profits of your labor and when you are no longer useful to them, they throw you aside for a younger guy who will work for less. Unless he's a Mexican, that really upsets you.



I don't care if he's a Mexican, I care if he's an illegal Mexican. 

Correct, when a company has no use for you, they get rid of you, just like when your company is useless to you, you get rid of them.  So the trick is to continue to make your employer money and you won't have to worry about being replaced.



JoeB131 said:


> Sure it does. You aren't really paying for that doctor's education. You are paying for those ladies who figure out the insurance and billing, keeping the lights on in the office, all the equipment in the office designed to figure out what wrong with you. ("Nurse, he suffers a severe case of bitteroldwhiteguyitis! I'm afraid it's terminal." )
> 
> Now, I'd be all for free college and socialized medicine, so you don't have to pay $200.00. You get sick, you go in, get treated done and done.



Correct, you are paying for all that, but only the doctor is making the big bucks.  I don't deny them the money they make.  They paid for their education, was out of the workforce all the years it took them to become a doctor, they spent the best years of their life learning the profession while the rest of us were out partying and getting drunk.  They deserve what they make.  However that's part of the deal.  it's an investment.  Taxpayers should not be funding investments.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> I was 30 years old and selling cars. It was nothing like 2008. Also....you skipped the part where people involved in the S&L mess actually went to prison.



I didn't skip it, it just wasn't important to the point I was making.  

You had laws on the books, people broke the law and caused a recession.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I don't care if he's a Mexican, I care if he's an illegal Mexican.
> 
> Correct, when a company has no use for you, they get rid of you, just like when your company is useless to you, you get rid of them. So the trick is to continue to make your employer money and you won't have to worry about being replaced.



Well, given you are on welfare now, I guess that didn't work out.   



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Correct, you are paying for all that, but only the doctor is making the big bucks. I don't deny them the money they make. They paid for their education, was out of the workforce all the years it took them to become a doctor, they spent the best years of their life learning the profession while the rest of us were out partying and getting drunk. They deserve what they make. However that's part of the deal. it's an investment. Taxpayers should not be funding investments.



Actually, they should because our current system doesn't produce enough doctors, and we keep having to import them from India.   I had one point where I had three different Doctors all named Patel.


----------



## pknopp (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > I was 30 years old and selling cars. It was nothing like 2008. Also....you skipped the part where people involved in the S&L mess actually went to prison.
> ...



 And in 2008 they all skated.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

pknopp said:


> And in 2008 they all skated.



yeah, kind of hard to prosecute them for doing exactly what we all wanted them to do. 

"Aw, you loaned me money to buy that McMansion I couldn't afford and I didn't get out and flip it in time!!!"  

So what was the crime here again?


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > I was 30 years old and selling cars. It was nothing like 2008. Also....you skipped the part where people involved in the S&L mess actually went to prison.
> ...



Giving mortgages to people who failed financial criteria and risk factors caused the recession.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> My kids were never confused about any of this.



Are they in massive debt from college loans?  If so, they were very confused about it.  Anybody that thinks it out a little better wouldn't have massive education debt. 



noonereal said:


> Well, the kids you seem to feel superior to know their balance before they get home. It's called technology.



Yes, I know technology.  You have to sign into your bank if your internet and site is working.  Then you have to type in your password and email.   Some like my bank often won't allow you to sign in unless you answer an email or text with a special number they give you from time to time.  

Me, I just take the receipt, deduct it from my balance, and I know what I have.  When I get my bank statement, I go through each item to make sure my deductions match theirs.  They are not infallible.  Computers make mistakes too.  



noonereal said:


> Nothing lazy about it. That you perceive it as such just shows how stuck you are in yesteryear.
> Technology frees our time to pursue more substantive pursuits. I have no desire stay put in utilitarian tasks when it's not needed.



Technology is fine.  I use it every day.  But I use it for practical things.  



noonereal said:


> My cards have been lifted. You pay at a restaurant and someone grabs your number. Happens every day. It's decidedly no big deal. Literally, 99 out of 100 times your bank will alter you this has happened. The security algorithms are so sophisticated that banks use today that they find use way before you ever could.
> You never skip a beat even if someone grabs your card number.
> You sound like you simply don't understand how things work... like you are scared of the dark, what you don't understand.
> Not for nothing, $3,200 in cash was a big thing for your guy? I always keep cash around for stuff like this and have never had anyone blink. Car repairs, electricians, plumbers... many times.
> ...



It doesn't happen to me every day.  In fact it's never happened once.  The waitress can't get even get my name from the cash I use to pay for my meal.  Yes, it is a disaster when somebody steals your identity.  That's why companies like LifeLock have a business; to keep people from stealing your information, and it's a monthly fee to do it.  Therefore it's obviously a big enough problem to pay a service like that.  

The furnace was a pretty good deal, but I got his number from a friend who highly recommended him.  He and his worker were here for two full days because of all the duct work that needed to be done.  I don't know where you live at, but if you're in a blue state, everything is twice as expensive there as it is here.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > And in 2008 they all skated.
> ...



The “flip” side are those that felt entitled to a McMansion in the name of equality (class envy) and failed to keep up with payments. Don’t bite off more than you can chew. Same with college loans.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Well, given you are on welfare now, I guess that didn't work out.



It worked out fine.  My employer didn't want to lose me.  Government put me out of a career for health issues.  Not my fault.  I tried everything to stay. 



JoeB131 said:


> Actually, they should because our current system doesn't produce enough doctors, and we keep having to import them from India. I had one point where I had three different Doctors all named Patel.



We don't import people from anywhere.  Many get their education here and don't go back once they become a doctor in the US.  They can't make any money with their socialized healthcare system.  It's low paying and the only people that go back are those who barely got by to be a doctor.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Giving mortgages to people who failed financial criteria and risk factors caused the recession.


.
Except that isn't what happened.   It wasn't poor people buying houses that caused the 2008 crash, it was middle class people who thought they could buy a McMansion, hold on to it for a few years, and then watch it's value go up and sell out. 



LeftofLeft said:


> The “flip” side are those that felt entitled to a McMansion in the name of equality (class envy) and failed to keep up with payments. Don’t bite off more than you can chew. Same with college loans.



Except that much like the colleges who sell overpriced degrees, no one was interesting in building sensible bungalows in the Oughts or even now.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Are they in massive debt from college loans?



My youngest, she went to a big name school on a full athletic scholarship. When she got out she had actually saved several thousand and put it in the bank!  She is so cheap. Not only do athletes get everything paid for but they are given a small amount of cash for expenses too. She banked it. The perks she got were ridiculous. 
My oldest daughter got her MBA from one of the countries best business schools. She just bought a million dollar home on her own so the debt incurred was well worth it. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, I know technology. You have to sign into your bank if your internet and site is working. Then you have to type in your password and email. Some like my bank often won't allow you to sign in unless you answer an email or text with a special number they give you from time to time.



only the first time you sign in and use a new device
dude, you just don't want to change. You have all kinds of reasons to not change that are just not valid. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, it is a disaster when somebody steals your identity.



Like I said, I have had my card numbers stolen a couple times and it took less than two minutes for me to get it squared away with the bank calling me and asking me to verify what were my charges and what were bogus. 
Bam, over. No questions no charges, no problem. 

Like I said, when we lived in  a cash sociaty I was all in. Now, that just makes you old before your time. 




Ray From Cleveland said:


> in a blue state, everything is twice as expensive



I would never live in a red state, that is true. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. 

You are a nice guy, just stuck in the past. We are probably the same age but you are definitely old enough to be my father.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Except that isn't what happened. It wasn't poor people buying houses that caused the 2008 crash, it was middle class people who thought they could buy a McMansion, hold on to it for a few years, and then watch it's value go up and sell out.



It was the poor people that started the entire thing.  

Bill Clinton wanted to address the poor and blacks not being able to get home loans due to bad credit, not large enough down payment, or both.  So they lowered the federal guidelines that banks use to issue loans.  You can't have one set of standards for blacks and poor, and another standard for everybody else, so they lowered the standards for everybody.  

The blacks and poor were buying homes under 0% down with no credit check.  This greatly increased the activity in the housing market.  As supply and demand dictates, the less supply and more demand, the higher the price.  

The middle-class and wealthy seen an opportunity, and they were going to get their piece of the pie.  So yes, they bought houses to flip them and make 20% or more profit.  The more homes and buildings they bought, the more money they made. Investors seen the opportunity to build homes for a large profit, and they built condos and erected new housing.  It finally hit the wall.  

Blame who you like because there is a lot of blame to go around, but the truth of the matter is this all started because the blacks and the poor were complaining to their politicians they couldn't get loans.  If not for that, the standards would have never been lowered, and the bubble would have never taken place, which means the bubble burst could have never happened.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Giving mortgages to people who failed financial criteria and risk factors caused the recession.
> ...



What did happen was that people - poor, middle class, rich, white, black, Latino, Asian, Indian, citizen, non-citizen- all had the opportunity to get into homes they could not afford because Democrats felt compelled to relax financial risk factors in the name of racial and economic equality..... even mandated banks to do so.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> My youngest, she went to a big name school on a full athletic scholarship. When she got out she had actually saved several thousand and put it in the bank! She is so cheap. Not only do athletes get everything paid for but they are given a small amount of cash for expenses too. She banked it. The perks she got were ridiculous.
> My oldest daughter got her MBA from one of the countries best business schools. She just bought a million dollar home on her own so the debt incurred was well worth it.



Well okay then.  Your kids did it the right way.  Why would you be for bailing out kids that did it the wrong way.  Something doesn't make sense here.  You should be on our side. 



noonereal said:


> only the first time you sign in and use a new device
> dude, you just don't want to change. You have all kinds of reasons to not change that are just not valid.



I did change.  My personal bills I pay online.  I write checks for my tax deductible items unless I pay cash and get a receipt like the new furnace for one of my rental units.  I shop at Amazon for most of the items I buy.  There are no stores nearby.  However to manually deduct a debit card receipt is the least inconvenience.  I bet if we were to have a race, I could deduct my bill faster than it would take you to sign on, find the debit, and get the balance.  

For extra security, the bank I use (New York Community Bank) doesn't recognize your computer any longer.  I called to complain about it after they changed their internet format.  The other format had a check mark box to do that, but their new format doesn't. I asked the person on the phone how to get it to recognize my computer, and she said they don't do that anymore.  I will get those security codes all the time no matter what I use.  Look for this to spread to other banks as time goes on. 



noonereal said:


> Like I said, I have had my card numbers stolen a couple times and it took less than two minutes for me to get it squared away with the bank calling me and asking me to verify what were my charges and what were bogus.
> Bam, over. No questions no charges, no problem.
> 
> Like I said, when we lived in a cash sociaty I was all in. Now, that just makes you old before your time.



Maybe, but I'm assured security that way unless somebody robs me out in the parking lot.  Anything with my name or account number on it goes in the shredder. 



noonereal said:


> I would never live in a red state, that is true. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.
> 
> You are a nice guy, just stuck in the past. We are probably the same age but you are definitely old enough to be my father.



I never said you should live in a red state.  What I said is everything is cheaper in non-blue states.  My state of Ohio is considered purple.  If you want to see the true cost of living difference, watch HGTV.  Take note of what you can get for the same money when it comes to buying or renovating a house.  An 800K house where you live you could buy here for 400K.  

I never said I was old enough to be your father.  I'm 60 years old right now.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Feb 10, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Giving mortgages to people who failed financial criteria and risk factors caused the recession.
> ...



Colleges - or Big Education- is largely dominated by Liberals who vote Democrat and who feel entitled to no longer being held accountable for this thing called “tenure”. Yet, you wonder why colleges are overpriced.


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I never said I was old enough to be your father. I'm 60 years old right now.




lol, you did not understand me. I meant your reluctant to change makes you much older than you are. 



I could never live in OH but I have the upmost respect for it's residents. I always considered it one of the healthiest states  in the country as far as wholesomeness, values. 

I am a NYer through and through. I need the sophistication of NYC.  

Peace


----------



## noonereal (Feb 10, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Why would you be for bailing out kids that did it the wrong way.



I never said I was. 

However, I do think the system is bad and should be changed. Kids should not enter the workplace with the investor class not only profiting off their toil but collecting interest on the loans they had to take to train themselves for the profits for the non working investor class. It's an immoral system.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 10, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> Cursive? What is this, 1960? I haven't used cursive in 20 years.



How do you sign your name?  With an X?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 10, 2021)

noonereal said:


> I never said I was.
> 
> However, I do think the system is bad and should be changed. Kids should not enter the workplace with the investor class not only profiting off their toil but collecting interest on the loans they had to take to train themselves for the profits for the non working investor class. It's an immoral system.



Okay, then what do you suggest that we can do in a free country protected by a Constitution?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 11, 2021)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > Cursive? What is this, 1960? I haven't used cursive in 20 years.
> ...


My signature (seldom used) is the only "cursive" I use. Also note: many, even most, signatures are not legible.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Feb 11, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > I am still not seeing the significance here. Most documents such as an police report require you to print. I have never seen one conducive to cursive.
> ...



I am sorry, but that is just plain weird!


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Bill Clinton wanted to address the poor and blacks not being able to get home loans due to bad credit, not large enough down payment, or both. So they lowered the federal guidelines that banks use to issue loans. You can't have one set of standards for blacks and poor, and another standard for everybody else, so they lowered the standards for everybody.



Except the CRA loans weren't the root of the problem, it was middle class people buying McMansions that caused the losses, and the banks were happy to go along with it, because they could repossess the home after collecting interest payments, and then flip the house for even more money.   The idea that the banks were "made" to do this is just silly on it's face.   No one made them give a loan to a middle class person who couldn't afford the monthly payments.  No one made them take these loans, exaggerate their value and sell them as investments. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Blame who you like because there is a lot of blame to go around, but the truth of the matter is this all started because the blacks and the poor were complaining to their politicians they couldn't get loans.



Tell us again how you aren't racist, Ray, that shit never gets old.


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## pknopp (Feb 11, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



 The relaxation of financial rules were as bipartisan as things get.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> What did happen was that people - poor, middle class, rich, white, black, Latino, Asian, Indian, citizen, non-citizen- all had the opportunity to get into homes they could not afford because Democrats felt compelled to relax financial risk factors in the name of racial and economic equality..... even mandated banks to do so.



Okay, let's look at that.  

Why do homes cost what they cost?  Because of the labor and materials put into them?  or because their value is artificially set by the real estate market?  

I inherited a property in Northern Wisconsin from my parents my father initially paid $800.00 for the land and built the structure on it himself.   Today that property is worth Probably $600,000 dollars.    It was probably worth more before the Crash.  

The problem was the banks were told they couldn't discriminate due to someone's race or where they lived. That's all the CRA did. The banks didn't go bust because poor black folks were buying sensible bungalows in the city.  The banks went bust because White People were buying McMansions in the Exurbs until they had more McMansions than they had people willing to buy them.  

There was a whole row of Half Built McMansions near where I live, all work stopped on them in 2008 and no one took them up again until 2012.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 11, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > What did happen was that people - poor, middle class, rich, white, black, Latino, Asian, Indian, citizen, non-citizen- all had the opportunity to get into homes they could not afford because Democrats felt compelled to relax financial risk factors in the name of racial and economic equality..... even mandated banks to do so.
> ...



You insist on saying the core reason for the Financial crisis of 2008 was the years leading up to that, white people bought McMansions until there was a glut. What is your source(s) to back up that statement?


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 11, 2021)

pknopp said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



In order for financial institutions to be able to comply with the Community Reinvestment Act, regulators at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to back subprime loans that were more risky because credit worthiness criteria was relaxed. This was pushed primarily by Democrats like Barney Frank and Jamie Gorelick. Who weee the Republicans pushing this alongside them? Because the Community Reinvestment Act reduced credit worthiness criteria and included potential punishment from regulators for non-compliance, it opened the door across the board for all taxes and all economic classes to take advantage regardless of their credit worthiness.


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## noonereal (Feb 11, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > I never said I was.
> ...



ROTFLMAO! What a bone head post. 

You are an idiot.


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## pknopp (Feb 11, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



Bush pushes home ownership opportunities for minorities - The Boston Globe


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 11, 2021)

noonereal said:


> ROTFLMAO! What a bone head post.
> 
> You are an idiot.



I'm an idiot because you can't answer my question?


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## noonereal (Feb 11, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I'm an idiot because you can't answer my question



 you are an idiot for many reasons, don't sell yourself short

(btw, your question made no sense, what does one have to do with the other... to a reasoned mind?)

to an idiot, maybe an association can be drawn.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 11, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Except the CRA loans weren't the root of the problem, it was middle class people buying McMansions that caused the losses, and the banks were happy to go along with it, because they could repossess the home after collecting interest payments, and then flip the house for even more money. The idea that the banks were "made" to do this is just silly on it's face. No one made them give a loan to a middle class person who couldn't afford the monthly payments. No one made them take these loans, exaggerate their value and sell them as investments.



I didn't say anything about CRA's.  They've been around since Carter.  What I said is they lowered the home loan requirements which they did.  I'd post links on it but I know you can't stand reading the truth.  You like to live in your own little world. 

Look.......I lost a few really good tenants when this took place.  They both were over extended on their credit, and both got home loans with 0% down.  One of them was actually renting his big screen because he couldn't afford to buy one.  Banks didn't make any money on the interest. Banks made money by processing the loans, and then selling them off.  It was less risk to them because even they knew those loans weren't secure.  But government changed the rules, so what bank didn't get in on the action?  They all did. 



JoeB131 said:


> Tell us again how you aren't racist, Ray, that shit never gets old.



How is truth racist?  You can Google it if you like.  Blacks were claiming discrimination because they couldn't get home loans due to their credit history and lack of income.  There was no other reason for the feds to lower qualifiers for home loans.  But the banks had a higher standard for everybody, it's just that blacks didn't meet those standards.  Clinton came up with the idea to lower those standards to boost black home ownership.  There was no other way to do it.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 11, 2021)

noonereal said:


> you are an idiot for many reasons, don't sell yourself short
> 
> (btw, your question made no sense, what does one have to do with the other... to a reasoned mind?)
> 
> to an idiot, maybe an association can be drawn.



Typical commie.  When you can't explain yourself, resort to personal insults.  If you can't explain your stupidity, then don't post stupidity.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 11, 2021)

pknopp said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...





pknopp said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > pknopp said:
> ...



How does pushing for more home ownership among minorities align to fully supporting government-backed subprime mortgages where the creditworthiness criteria is practically ignored? You might want to also note that while Bush pushed for abs celebrated minority home ownership, he was at odds with Frank, Gorelick, and Raines who decided creditworthiness was merely a “nice to have.”


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## Brain357 (Feb 11, 2021)

Let’s do mortgage debt next.  Why not?


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## pknopp (Feb 11, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



 If you say so.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 11, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...



My "advise [sic]" to you:  Don't give "advise [sic]" on being intelligent to people who think you're mindless dog shit, and then prove them right while doing it.

But if I ever need "advise [sic]" on being a puling moron, I'll definitely call you as the resident expert.

In the meantime,  you already received my permission to run like a crying bitch.  Hanging around, trying to make it look noble is just making you look more pathetic.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 11, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> noonereal said:
> 
> 
> > ROTFLMAO! What a bone head post.
> ...



Yup, that's about the size of it.  Noone - boy, is THAT accurate - is a big fan of the leftist standard retreat tactic.


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## noonereal (Feb 11, 2021)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > noonereal said:
> ...




I find noonereal  to be brilliant! Totally brilliant. The man is impeccable. Even handed, educated, ethical, moral... a man amongst men.   I applaud him!


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> You insist on saying the core reason for the Financial crisis of 2008 was the years leading up to that, white people bought McMansions until there was a glut. What is your source(s) to back up that statement?



Not playing the citation game with you... you nuts just scream "Fake news" or some other such shit.   It's not a productive use of my time. 



Ray From Cleveland said:


> Look.......I lost a few really good tenants when this took place. They both were over extended on their credit, and both got home loans with 0% down. One of them was actually renting his big screen because he couldn't afford to buy one. Banks didn't make any money on the interest. Banks made money by processing the loans, and then selling them off. It was less risk to them because even they knew those loans weren't secure. But government changed the rules, so what bank didn't get in on the action? They all did.



So the banks screwed working people, got themselves into trouble, and then went to the government for a bailout after they wrecked the economy... and Ray blames... Poor people.  



LeftofLeft said:


> In order for financial institutions to be able to comply with the Community Reinvestment Act, regulators at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to back subprime loans that were more risky because credit worthiness criteria was relaxed. This was pushed primarily by Democrats like Barney Frank and Jamie Gorelick. Who weee the Republicans pushing this alongside them?




Actually, it was - GEorge W. Bush.  

I guess I have to play the citation game with you.  Here's Bush praising how wonderful it was all these poor people were buying houses.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > You insist on saying the core reason for the Financial crisis of 2008 was the years leading up to that, white people bought McMansions until there was a glut. What is your source(s) to back up that statement?
> ...



How is praising people owning homes validation of Barney Frank’s egregious reduction of financial risk and credit worthiness? Is that the only path to home ownership?


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## pknopp (Feb 12, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



 It's also a huge misnomer to note that all the people who lost their houses were credit risks. Many were making their payments until the crash. That happened and people lost their jobs. It's hard to make a house payment when you loose your job. 

 Some markets housing crashed. Values dropped. Many people still would have been able to make their payments if the banks had worked with them. Banks wouldn't do it because they were upside down on their loans. If they could have been able to refinance at 3% like others they may have been able to make their payments. The taxpayers saw to it that the banks got billions for nothing but they would not help homeowners out.

 HARP was supposed to address this but it was nothing more than another corrupt bank bail out. 

 We place all this blame on small homeowners when many tried to stay in their homes. Greedy banks and the politicians that looked out for only the banks interests are mostly to blame.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 12, 2021)

pknopp said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Large house, small house or shack, financial criteria and egregious reduction in creditworthiness should have never happened. Lesson learned. I hope the government and the banks never go down that path again.


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## pknopp (Feb 12, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > LeftofLeft said:
> ...



 People were making their payments until the banks and the government crashed the economy. Why is it we never argue to stop the bubbles that inevitably crash?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 12, 2021)

pknopp said:


> It's also a huge misnomer to note that all the people who lost their houses were credit risks. Many were making their payments until the crash. That happened and people lost their jobs. It's hard to make a house payment when you loose your job.



That may have happened to some responsible borrowers, but what happened to the people that never should have gotten a loan in the first place is they were high risk, and banks put high risk people on adjustable rate mortgage loans.  Many of those people were uneducated and didn't have common sense, so they never bothered to hire somebody to read the contract and explain what an interest rate increase could mean for them.  Their house payment was $800.00 a month, and they can pay that living paycheck to paycheck.  

When the interest rate doubled or more, the house was no longer affordable, and they just sat back until the bank kicked them out of the house, thus the housing collapse.  

What happened here is that we got invaded by people from the inner-city who could never afford the house under any circumstance.  Moving to the suburbs was just a vacation from the projects.  They had no intention on paying the mortgage, and it was a free place to live until the banks foreclosed. They lucked out by the banks having so many it took a year or two to get to them.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> So the banks screwed working people, got themselves into trouble, and then went to the government for a bailout after they wrecked the economy... and Ray blames... Poor people.



No, I don't blame the poor people.  Poor people are poor for a reason.  They're uneducated or just plain stupid.  They heard what the banks were doing and decided to get in on a good thing like their friends and family did. 

Who I blame are the Democrats.  Blacks and the poor are a huge voting base for them, and catering to their voters is what is politically expedient for them, even if it meant destroying the country.  Vote buying is everything for Democrats.  Nobody would vote for them otherwise.


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## pknopp (Feb 12, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > It's also a huge misnomer to note that all the people who lost their houses were credit risks. Many were making their payments until the crash. That happened and people lost their jobs. It's hard to make a house payment when you loose your job.
> ...



 Corrupt bankers should have never put them into those loans. They did because they paid better.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 12, 2021)

pknopp said:


> Corrupt bankers should have never put them into those loans. They did because they paid better.



They did because government said it was now okay.  So they either made those loans or their competitor did and made all the money.


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## pknopp (Feb 12, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > Corrupt bankers should have never put them into those loans. They did because they paid better.
> ...



 With none of it being OK.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 12, 2021)

pknopp said:


> With none of it being OK.



Maybe, but this is called learning from your mistakes which doesn't happen very often with Democrats.  It all started with their desire to pander to their voters. It began as a snowball going down a hill.  When it finally crashed at the bottom, it was 10 feet around.  Did we learn anything?  The answer to that is look who is entirely in charge of our federal government today.

Biden has a similar plan.  He's been working on it with Booker since he got the nomination.  The plan is to force nice middle-class suburbs to foster low income housing.  Again, pandering to their voters.  What that will do is take nice safe suburbs and turn them into crime infested ghettos.  Stores will close down, schools will get dangerous for your children to attend, property values will be cut in half or more within a matter of time, police won't be able to keep up with the crime.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2021)

noonereal said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray From Cleveland said:
> ...



I'm sure you do.  You're wrong about everything else in the world, so why not that as well?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> How is praising people owning homes validation of Barney Frank’s egregious reduction of financial risk and credit worthiness? Is that the only path to home ownership?



Bush did more than that.  He made it easier to get loans and loosened regulations on the banks. 

You see, the banks don't really want the people with GOOD credit.  They want the people with more iffy credit, who they can charge a higher interest rate to.  This is why "Sub-Prime" loans were such big business, not because the government "made them", but because they could make more money charging a higher interest rate to people with lower credit scores.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 12, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> No, I don't blame the poor people. Poor people are poor for a reason. They're uneducated or just plain stupid. They heard what the banks were doing and decided to get in on a good thing like their friends and family did.



For those playing along at home... Ray is currently on disability, complaining about "Poor People".


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## harmonica (Feb 12, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...


---this should be being reported as one of the stupidest ideas ever--but it's not


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## pknopp (Feb 12, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> pknopp said:
> 
> 
> > With none of it being OK.
> ...



 We are in another huge bubble. No one learns.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 12, 2021)

pknopp said:


> We are in another huge bubble. No one learns.



What huge bubble are we in?  I see no bubble.  The economy is terrible.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> For those playing along at home... Ray is currently on disability, complaining about "Poor People".



I'm not poor.  If I am, tell the IRS before I file my taxes and send them a check for last year.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Bush did more than that. He made it easier to get loans and loosened regulations on the banks.
> 
> You see, the banks don't really want the people with GOOD credit. They want the people with more iffy credit, who they can charge a higher interest rate to. This is why "Sub-Prime" loans were such big business, not because the government "made them", but because they could make more money charging a higher interest rate to people with lower credit scores.



Utter stupidity.  Banks only go by the guidelines established for house loans by Freddy/ Fanny.  If they don't, they won't be able to find underwriters and be able to sell them off.  The movement started under Bill Clinton.  Banks could make everybody use an ARM if they wanted, but they only do that for less than par applicants, you know, people that don't have the money to pay higher interest rates.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 12, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > How is praising people owning homes validation of Barney Frank’s egregious reduction of financial risk and credit worthiness? Is that the only path to home ownership?
> ...



If lots of people default on their loans, how much money is the bank going to make? Do you have any sense of business risk?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> What huge bubble are we in? I see no bubble. The economy is terrible.



Funny how the economy became "terrible" the minute Trump left. 



LeftofLeft said:


> If lots of people default on their loans, how much money is the bank going to make? Do you have any sense of business risk?



I do.  the banks clearly didn't.  That was the point.  Or they realized that the government would bail them out. 

So we had a system of capitalizing reward and socializing risk.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Utter stupidity. Banks only go by the guidelines established for house loans by Freddy/ Fanny. If they don't, they won't be able to find underwriters and be able to sell them off. The movement started under Bill Clinton. Banks could make everybody use an ARM if they wanted, but they only do that for less than par applicants, you know, people that don't have the money to pay higher interest rates.



My first mortgage when I was on an E-4's salary was on an ARM.  I couldn't get to a fixed rate fast enough.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> > What huge bubble are we in? I see no bubble. The economy is terrible.
> ...



The banks did realize the government would bail them out when the government mandated that financial risk criteria and metric be relaxed in order for the government to reach it’s social goal. Ask yourself why would a bank engage in such risk without the government backing it up? There is no
Reward without the government assuming the risk. Absent government owning the risk and absent a reward, banks will not create such an instrument on its own. Why would they? Hence, the government created this, not the banks.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> My first mortgage when I was on an E-4's salary was on an ARM. I couldn't get to a fixed rate fast enough.



Same with me. In spite of my excellent credit rating, savings, work history, because I was investing in income property, they still considered the loans high risk.  But the interest rate was not 1% likely to go higher, it was 7% and likely to drop which it did.  After successfully making payments for a year, I was able to refinance to fixed rate mortgages.  To be honest, only one bank would actually give me the loans.  All other banks rejected my application, and that was with a co-signer. 

Back then, only very credit worthy people were able to get a home or investmet loan, and that's the way it should have stayed.  We would have never had the housing bubble and bust if not for vote buying politics. But as I've said so many times, we unfortunately have this voting system that allows the stupid to vote, and that's why we are under Democrat leadership today.  If only the informed were allowed to vote, we wouldn't have people voting for Obama money and free college.  Vote buying would be nearly impossible.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 13, 2021)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > My first mortgage when I was on an E-4's salary was on an ARM. I couldn't get to a fixed rate fast enough.
> ...



Careful with the term “creditworthiness”. Some might consider that to be racist.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Feb 13, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Careful with the term “creditworthiness”. Some might consider that to be racist.



Without a doubt Joe will reply with such a comment.  We could be talking about the new iPhone 12, and Joe would find a way to make it racial.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 13, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> The banks did realize the government would bail them out when the government mandated that financial risk criteria and metric be relaxed in order for the government to reach it’s social goal. Ask yourself why would a bank engage in such risk without the government backing it up? There is no
> Reward without the government assuming the risk. Absent government owning the risk and absent a reward, banks will not create such an instrument on its own. Why would they? Hence, the government created this, not the banks.



I bet you go down to the Rape Crisis Center and tell those women they were asking for it by wearing sexy dressed. 

The difference is, pre-Bush, the rules against making risky loans were enforced...   

Not so much under Bush, who really saw the housing bubble as propping up his otherwise dismal economic performance.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 13, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > The banks did realize the government would bail them out when the government mandated that financial risk criteria and metric be relaxed in order for the government to reach it’s social goal. Ask yourself why would a bank engage in such risk without the government backing it up? There is no
> ...





> bet you go down to the Rape Crisis Center and tell those women they were asking for it by wearing sexy dressed.



That is some sick-fuck mentality right there. We are having a seemingly healthy debate about banks, financial criteria, risk management and you lead in with this to drive home how much you want to blame Bush????


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## Toro (Feb 13, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> 
> 
> Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.
> ...



This didn't happen.


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## LeftofLeft (Feb 13, 2021)

Toro said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order
> ...



Not yet. Nor should it.


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## the other mike (Feb 14, 2021)

Student debt in the US accumulated in the past 20 years --*$1.5 trillion*.

Cost of pointless, endless wars in the Middle East and keeping 900 military bases 
to police the planet for the last 20 years-- *$10 trillion *(and that's a very conservative estimate)

Just sayin.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 14, 2021)

LeftofLeft said:


> That is some sick-fuck mentality right there. We are having a seemingly healthy debate about banks, financial criteria, risk management and you lead in with this to drive home how much you want to blame Bush????



It kind of stands.   The only crooks here were the banks.  Yes, Blame Bush for not enforcing the laws on the books, but at the end of the day, the Banks screwed working people because they KNEW THEY COULD. 

Nobody MADE the banks give out bad loans, and then sell them as investments by misrepresenting their value. The Banks did that all on their own, because they thought the party would never end.


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