# Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust



## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!

Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust


> JERUSALEM (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sparked uproar in Israel on Wednesday for suggesting that a World War II-era Palestinian leader convinced the Nazis to adopt their Final Solution to exterminate European Jews.
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> *Holocaust experts slammed Netanyahu's comments as historically inaccurate and serving the interests of Holocaust deniers by lessening the responsibility of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. Critics also said the statement amounts to incitement against modern-day Palestinians in the midst of a wave of violent unrest and Israeli-Palestinian tensions.*
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## Jroc (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
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Learn some history CAIR girl


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## Jroc (Oct 21, 2015)

*The Mufti of Jerusalem salutes the Bosnian SS division*
*From the Encyclopedia of Holocaust, Edition 1990, Vol. 2, page 704. The caption under the photograph reads: Hajj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, inspecting troops in Bosnia (1943).*










> During the Second World War in Yugoslavia, as with the *Catholic Church in Croatia*, many Muslim clerics in Bosnia and Kosovo were willing accomplices in the genocide of the nations Serbian, Jewish and Roma population. From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of *Ante Pavelic in Croatia* carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, they were helped by Muslim fundamentalists in Bosnia and Kosovo who were openly supported by the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. A notorious anti-Semite, he openly encouraged Muslims to join Nazi units that would be later implicated in genocide and crimes against humanity - the infamous Hanjar (or Handschar) 13th Waffen SS division. One of these crimes was the *The Massacre at Koritska Jama Gorge, in Bosnia during 1941*. The Nazi's also established a puppet state in Serbia under General Milan Nedic, who along with the Cetniks also particapated in the Holocaust in wartime Croatia (which included Bosnia) and Serbia.
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> What united al-Husseini and the Third Reich was a common hatred of the Jewish people. The Nazis had taken al-Husseini under their protection following the wartime invasion of Iraq. He was to spend most of the war living in a luxurious suite at the Hotel Adlon in Berlin. Hitler had enjoyed quite a following among the nationalist youth of Egypt during the war, after Nassiri Nasser, the brother of the future president of Egypt, had published an Arab edition of _Mein Kampf_ in 1939, describing its author as the "strongest man of Europe". Not surprisingly, Egypt became like Argentina after the war - a safe haven for SS war criminals who fled there after the war. Many were keen to help President Nasser in his attempts to destroy the State of Israel. There is evidence that the shadowy ODESSA network helped many of them to Egypt. Apart from Syria - who still host the wanted SS war criminal Alois Brunner, it was in Egypt that the *Post-war Arab links to the ODESSA network* were strongest.



The Role of Muslim SS divisions in Yugoslavia's Holocaust


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## Hossfly (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
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FYI:  See thread - "Peace Is Their Enemy."


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Jroc said:


> *The Mufti of Jerusalem salutes the Bosnian SS division*
> *From the Encyclopedia of Holocaust, Edition 1990, Vol. 2, page 704. The caption under the photograph reads: Hajj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, inspecting troops in Bosnia (1943).*
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The OP quoted reputable historians on these claims.  The role was extremely minor, and had no impact on Hitler's decisions which were already in place.  Netanyahu's shenanigans here are just like what he did to scare voters into voting for him - whether he seriously believes it or not, it's dangerous and will only serve to increase the public's fear, anti-Palestinian sentiment, and public violence.  Is that something a leader should be doing?  We're seeing a piss poor job on the Palestinian side, looks like we are also seeing a piss poor job on the Israeli side.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
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> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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From the OP...in case you missed it:

_Netanyahu said al-Husseini played a "central role in fomenting the final solution" by trying to convince Hitler to destroy the Jews during a 1941 meeting in Berlin.

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Historians quickly noted that the Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running. Hitler had previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.

*Moshe Zimmermann, a prominent Holocaust and anti-Semitism researcher at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said Netanyahu made a "far-reaching argument" for political purposes that didn't hold water. He said the comments essentially made Netanyahu a Holocaust denier.

"Any attempt to deflect the burden from Hitler to others is a form of Holocaust denial," he told The Associated Press.

Al-Husseini was an enthusiastic Nazi supporter. But Zimmermann called him a "lightweight" who was pleading with Hitler for assistance in getting rid of the British Mandate and the Jewish immigrants coming to the Holy Land. He said there was no evidence al-Husseini had any real influence on Hitler...*_​


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## Penelope (Oct 21, 2015)

The Grand Muffit was used by the Zionist British to fight the Turks  and he along with Palestinian armies fought the Turks, and then finds out that it was already in the Plans to give Palestine to the Zionist.

He was also upset with the British, who back stabbed him and he did not want the Zionist there, and Hitler knew just what he meant, as they were taking over Berlin.

Everyone says Hitler was anti Semitic. The Arabs are more Semitic than the Russian Zionist ever thought of being.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
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How is indisputable historical fact 'uproarable?' Arabs were Nazi allies against the Jews, that iosn't in dispute. So how is mentioning it in any way controversial?


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## TNHarley (Oct 21, 2015)

He is probably just getting desperate. He cant even defend his country without dealing with some assholes bullshit lol


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## Jroc (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


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In case you missed it..Netanyahu was making a point and organizing 30,000 troops to fight for Hitler is a big thing actually..no matter what some leftist Netanyahu hater says


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 21, 2015)

Guess instead of reaching back to WWII CNN should just replay 9/11/2001 footage of Palestinians dancing in the street getting the news of the attacks in NYC huh?

False Footaging


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## Penelope (Oct 21, 2015)

Jroc said:


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shall we talk about the Jews who fought for Hitler too, and how many American were on Hitler's side, as they also didn't want communism, and the Jews were the leaders of communism, no one can even dispute that, then we got them in the US.  Poland hated Russia more than Germany.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
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> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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That is not what Netanyahu was claiming:

_Netanyahu said al-Husseini played a "central role in fomenting the final solution" by trying to convince Hitler to destroy the Jews during a 1941 meeting in Berlin.

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"_​


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Guess instead of reaching back to WWII CNN should just replay 9/11/2001 footage of Palestinians dancing in the street getting the news of the attacks in NYC huh?
> 
> False Footaging



One tiny group of Palestinians.


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## ogibillm (Oct 21, 2015)

Netanyahu is not interested in peace. That has been clear for some time


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## Hossfly (Oct 21, 2015)

Looks to me like the Palestinians are continuing the Holocaust by getting in bed with ISIS.


_*While Netanyahu demanded that the world condemn Abbas for incitement and support of terror, UN Chief Ban Ki-moon equated Palestinian terrorism with Israeli self-defense, calling for the reduction of violence on both sides.*_

*By: Aryeh Savir, World Israel News*
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu charged Palestinian Authority (PA) head Mahmoud Abbas of joining forces with extreme Islamic terror elements and of being the primary driving force behind the wave of terror attacks that has plagued Israel over the past weeks.

“Your visit comes at a troubling time,” Netanyahu told UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon at a press conference in Jerusalem on Tuesday. Ban came to Israel on a surprise visit in an attempt to calm the tensions in the country.

“In recent weeks, Israelis have been deliberately run over, shot, stabbed and hacked to death, and in large part this is because President Abbas has joined ISIS (the Islamic State terror organization) and Hamas in claiming that Israel threatens the al-Aqsa mosque,” Netanyahu declared.


Netanyahu: Abbas has joined forces with ISIS and Hamas


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## ogibillm (Oct 21, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Looks to me like the Palestinians are continuing the Holocaust by getting in bed with ISIS.
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> _*While Netanyahu demanded that the world condemn Abbas for incitement and support of terror, UN Chief Ban Ki-moon equated Palestinian terrorism with Israeli self-defense, calling for the reduction of violence on both sides.*_
> ...


i think you need to look at the body county before you start making claims of genocide.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Jroc said:


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Oh, I see.  So historians are now "leftist Netanyahu hater".



Penelope said:


> The Grand Muffit was used by the Zionist British to fight the Turks  and he along with Palestinian armies fought the Turks, and then finds out that it was already in the Plans to give Palestine to the Zionist.
> 
> He was also upset with the British, who back stabbed him and he did not want the Zionist there, and Hitler knew just what he meant, as they were taking over Berlin.
> 
> Everyone says Hitler was anti Semitic. The Arabs are more Semitic than the Russian Zionist ever thought of being.



The Grand Mufti was Arab Nationalist, but he was also antisemitic, however he was far from a central figure nor did he have anything to do with Hitler's final solution.  The purpose of those baseless claims is to demonize the palestinians further by portraying a close association with Hitler and in the context of the current conflict it is inflammatory and inciteful - hardly something I would expect from a national leader who should be working on calming tensions not inflaming them.
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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


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> > Guess instead of reaching back to WWII CNN should just replay 9/11/2001 footage of Palestinians dancing in the street getting the news of the attacks in NYC huh?
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"Palestinian celebrations[edit]

A group of Palestinians were filmed celebrating in the street in celebration of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the deaths of Americans. Fox News reported that in Ein el-Hilweh, Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, revelers fired weapons in the air, with similar celebratory gunfire heard at the Rashidiyeh camp near the southern city of Tyre as well.[25] The Palestinian National Authority (PNA) condemned the attacks and attempted to censure and discredit broadcasts and other news reports.[25] with many newspapers, magazines, websites and wire services running photographs.[31][32] The PNA claimed such celebrations were not representative of the sentiments of the Palestinian people, and the Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the PNA would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians". In an attempt to quash further reporting, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority could not "guarantee the life" of an Associated Press (AP) cameraman if footage he filmed of post-9/11 celebrations in Nablus was broadcast. Rahman's statement prompted a formal protest from the AP bureau chief, Dan Perry.[33][32]

Annette Krüger Spitta of the ARD's (German public broadcasting) TV magazine Panorama states that footage not aired shows that the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem is quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering (Nawal Abdel Fatah) stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward.[34]

There was also rumour that the footage of some Palestinians celebrating the attacks was stock footage of Palestinian reactions to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.[35] This rumour was proven false shortly afterwards,[36] and CNN issued a statement to that effect.[37] *A poll conducted by the Fafo Foundation in the Palestinian Authority in 2005 found that 65% of respondents supported the September 11 attacks.*[38]"
Reactions to the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Looks to me like the Palestinians are continuing the Holocaust by getting in bed with ISIS.
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> _*While Netanyahu demanded that the world condemn Abbas for incitement and support of terror, UN Chief Ban Ki-moon equated Palestinian terrorism with Israeli self-defense, calling for the reduction of violence on both sides.*_
> ...



That is based solely on Netanyahu's rhetoric.    Claiming that Israel threatens the mosque is not joining ISIS.  Yet another rhetorical tactic by Netanyahu to inflame fears (which Abbas is also doing).


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## Hossfly (Oct 21, 2015)

Penelope said:


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You seem to close your wax-clogged ears to information you've been exposed to a couple times in the past. There's a series about Hitler and Nazis on the American Heroes Channel and one episode is called, "The Jews Who Fought For Hitler." Please watch it and learn the truth. 
Also, I didn't know Hitler started his war because of Communism. Ever hear about Lebensraum?


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## Hossfly (Oct 21, 2015)

ogibillm said:


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Oh, but the body count won't be Jews this time around. True story.


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## ogibillm (Oct 21, 2015)

Hossfly said:


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You're right. Israel is very efficient at killing Palestinians.


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## Hossfly (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


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I saw on Twitter yesterday where ISIS is exhorting the Palestinian population to inflict as much terror and death on Israeli citizens as possible. That info was reported on All networks this morning.


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## Jroc (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


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ogibillm said:


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You moron, they must not be that efficient or there wouldn't be any "Palestinians" left in Israel...mulsims are however, very efficient at the ethnic cleansing of Christians from the middle east


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## fanger (Oct 21, 2015)

President Hoover meeting Hitler


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## Penelope (Oct 21, 2015)

Hossfly said:


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AHC, the holocaust and Zionist channel. Please. Of course not, he was anti communism and also Poland was a becoming a threat to Germany.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


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That is an interesting and comprehensive poll but if you look at the source wikipedia cites - the actual poll, you'll see that the claim is misleading and shows how easily polls can be distorted.  On page 54 is the actual question:  Support to Al Qaeda's actions like bombings in USA and Europe.  No mention of 9/11 specifically.  I'm curious about polls so I tried to find something indicating whether they supported 9/11 and to what level and I can't.  I can find support for Al Queda (which has fallen), public belief that 9/11 was a Jewish plot, etc but nothing on 9/11.


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## Hollie (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
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Yes, really. Read the Hamas Charter.


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## Penelope (Oct 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Guess instead of reaching back to WWII CNN should just replay 9/11/2001 footage of Palestinians dancing in the street getting the news of the attacks in NYC huh?
> 
> False Footaging



They are not stupid , they know the US supplies and says nothing while the Zionist kill them off and steal their land.

They say Bibi said "This is good, well not good but  the US knows who we fee now" something like that. I think this was to prove he was teaching somewhere, because, Bibi was missing in action from 9


Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
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> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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Can you please post it here, just to make sure we are all reading the same thing. thank you so much.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

,,,


Hollie said:


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We're not talking about the Hamas Charter - try to discuss the topic.


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
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Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Nuff said.


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> The OP quoted reputable historians on these claims.  The role was extremely minor, and had no impact on Hitler's decisions which were already in place.  Netanyahu's shenanigans here are just like what he did to scare voters into voting for him - whether he seriously believes it or not, it's dangerous and will only serve to increase the public's fear, anti-Palestinian sentiment, and public violence.  Is that something a leader should be doing?  We're seeing a piss poor job on the Palestinian side, looks like we are also seeing a piss poor job on the Israeli side.



Nazis, Muslims, and American leftists are all united in their bitter hatred of Jews. (and Christians.)


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Hossfly said:


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Of course ISIS is - they are doing it everywhere there is conflict because that is part of their propaganda.  That doesn't mean Palestinians are joining or part of ISIS and other than Netanyahu's baseless rhetoric - there is no evidence.  The Palestinians have been attacking Israeli's and vice versa long before ISIS.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
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You saw the picture of Hoover and Hitler, right?


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> ,,,
> We're not talking about the Hamas Charter - try to discuss the topic.



You posted something extremely stupid and fell flat.

Apparently you jumped on the latest Hamas hating point without vetting it.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
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> > The OP quoted reputable historians on these claims.  The role was extremely minor, and had no impact on Hitler's decisions which were already in place.  Netanyahu's shenanigans here are just like what he did to scare voters into voting for him - whether he seriously believes it or not, it's dangerous and will only serve to increase the public's fear, anti-Palestinian sentiment, and public violence.  Is that something a leader should be doing?  We're seeing a piss poor job on the Palestinian side, looks like we are also seeing a piss poor job on the Israeli side.
> ...



You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but considering many Jews are American Leftists I question your conclusions.


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> You saw the picture of Hoover and Hitler, right?



Hoover was an ally of Hitler? 

The amazing things you learn from the JOOOO hating left...


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## Hollie (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Throughout the islamist middle east, actions speak with the utmost clarity. The Islamist proscription is to rid that portion of the globe of competing ethnicities / religions. 

Try to be honest.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


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I posted an article, that contained statements by Netanyahu that were patently false - as pointed out by historians who specialize in Holocaust history and anti-semtism.  Are you accusing them of lying?


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


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A picture isn't everything.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Hollie said:


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Start a topic on Islamists then - I realize that is your personal obsession (how's that for honesty)?  This topic isn't about Islamists/Muslims - it's about Netanyahu's words and their accuracy and whether or not it helps the current situation at all.


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## aris2chat (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
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> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
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He is not saying anything that was not already known.  Mufti was a major influence on the "final solution".  He was given nazi gold to carry on the extermination in the middle east.  Many books and documents have stated this.  Which one actually came up with the idea, flip a coin, but the mufti was a major encouragement and advocate in eastern Europe and the middle for the massacres.

Why are people so surprised?


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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That is exactly the issue Aris - he was not.  That is per historians who research that - not popular media and opinion.

From the OP:
*"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Historians quickly noted that the Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running. Hitler had previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.
*​So what was Netanyahu's purpose in making these statements?


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## Hossfly (Oct 21, 2015)

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Did anything come out of the relationship between the Mufti and the NAZIs? And what was Hitler's reaction when the Mufti suggested Jewish genocide? Why were Arabs dressed up in SS suits?  So many questions, so little time.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

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Hitler already had Jewish Genocide in place and in action before the Mufti.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/w...red-holocaust-draws-broad-criticism.html?_r=0



> JERUSALEM — Israeli historians and opposition politicians on Wednesday joined Palestinians in denouncing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel for saying it was a Palestinian, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, who gave Hitler the idea of annihilating European Jews during World War II.
> ....Prof. Meir Litvak, a historian at Tel Aviv University, called the speech “a lie” and “a disgrace.” Prof. Moshe Zimmermann, a specialist of German history at Hebrew University, said, “With this, Netanyahu joins a long line of people that we would call Holocaust deniers.”
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> Isaac Herzog, leader of the opposition in the Israeli Parliament, said the accusation was “a dangerous historical distortion,” and he demanded that Mr. Netanyahu “correct it immediately.”
> ...


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> I posted an article, that contained statements by Netanyahu that were patently false - as pointed out by historians who specialize in Holocaust history and anti-semtism.  Are you accusing them of lying?



False?

{He said the World War II-era Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Nazi sympathizer Haj Amin al-Husseini, instigated Palestinian attacks on Jews over lies that they planned to destroy the Temple Mount, known to Muslims at the Noble Sanctuary.}

Well, that isn't "false," but rather historical fact.


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## browsing deer (Oct 21, 2015)

Hitler was a loon who was crazy beyond crazy.  He had the trains carrying munitions to the front wait for trains carrying victims (NOT exclusively jews) to the slaughter.
The mufti encouraged him, but he was going to do it anyway.


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## Humanity (Oct 21, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Looks to me like the Palestinians are continuing the Holocaust by getting in bed with ISIS.
> 
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> _*While Netanyahu demanded that the world condemn Abbas for incitement and support of terror, UN Chief Ban Ki-moon equated Palestinian terrorism with Israeli self-defense, calling for the reduction of violence on both sides.*_
> ...



As has been said previously, Netanyahu is NOT acting like a leader wanting peace...

His scare mongering is nothing more than incitement...


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## Humanity (Oct 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Fox News reported...



Oh dear boy...


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## Humanity (Oct 21, 2015)

fanger said:


> President Hoover meeting Hitler



America linked to the Holocaust???


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## Humanity (Oct 21, 2015)

Having just watched Netanyahu making his inaccurate claims...

You would think that Netanyahu and Hitler were fuck buddies the way he went on!


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Coyote said:
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That wasn't the statement under contention.  Refer to the OP.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

browsing deer said:


> Hitler was a loon who was crazy beyond crazy.  He had the trains carrying munitions to the front wait for trains carrying victims (NOT exclusively jews) to the slaughter.
> The mufti encouraged him, but he was going to do it anyway.



Agree.  The Mufti was a hateful, antisemitic man - but he was insignificant in the scope of Hitler's agenda.  Delibrately creating false statements is reprehensible given the current tensions and violence.


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## Coyote (Oct 21, 2015)

Humanity said:


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Exactly,  Just like his statements during the election.


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## Ravi (Oct 21, 2015)

Hitler didn't need convincing to destroy the Jews. Netenyahu needs a good swift kick in the ass.


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## theliq (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
> 
> ...


I always thought the NIT AND YARWHO was somewhat of a MAD BASTARD,.......always trying to rewrite History like the NUTTER ZIONISTS........well,the extermination of the Jews by Hitler and the Nazis started in 1938 and the rejected Mufti from Jerusalem(who the Palestinians had rejected earlier) didn't even have discussions with the Nazi Scum until 1941,unlike the Zionist Movement Scum,were collaborating to send Jews to the Gas Chambers much earlier..........The World think the NIT IS BONKERS,even Angala Merkle has come out and stated that Germans/Germany were responsible...So much for the Zionist Mindset in Israel today.......As I said A PACK OF RIGHT WING NUTTERS,..........There is something going badly wrong in Israel today,which is manifested in DERISION BY THE REST OF THE WORLD on the NIT today.


----------



## theliq (Oct 21, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> ...


Because the Time-Line is wrong,and the NIT said that the Mufti made the Holocaust a reality..but it was happening years before with the help of the Zionists..YOU IDIOT


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## montelatici (Oct 21, 2015)

Desperation on the part of the Zionists.  After Ban Ki-Moon stated that the cause of the uprising is the ILLEGAL occupation and accusing Israel's regular army of killing children, NetanNuthead decided to blame the Palestinians for the Holocuast.  Oh dear.


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## browsing deer (Oct 21, 2015)

The Mufti did call for the eradication of jews.  He was a pathetic useless loon, but lets not absolved him either.

The english would have taken more refugees in 1938.  The Mufti does bear some of the responsibility for what happened.


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## theliq (Oct 21, 2015)

browsing deer said:


> The Mufti did call for the eradication of jews.  He was a pathetic useless loon, but lets not absolved him either.
> 
> The english would have taken more refugees in 1938.  The Mufti does bear some of the responsibility for what happened.


Then so do,America,UK,and All European Countries,The Catholics,Proestants.......who did little or nothing,to save the Jewish people in areas under the Nazis...they were well aware what was going on........They were Shameful Indeed.just saying steve......To everyone's Shame,No One Wanted the Jews.


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## proudveteran06 (Oct 21, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Haj Amin al-Husseini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


His opposition to the British peaked during the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine. In 1937, evading an arrest warrant, he fled Palestine and took refuge in, successively, the French Mandate of Lebanon and the Kingdom of Iraq, until he established himself in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. During World War II he collaborated with both Italy and Germany by making propagandistic radio broadcasts and by helping the Nazis recruit Bosnian Muslims for the Waffen-SS. 

 Apparently she doesn't know how to read.  Her " excuse" is that Hitler's actions wouildn't have changed even if The Grand Mufti had not been an Anti Semitic Nazi Lover


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## montelatici (Oct 21, 2015)

I don't understand.  Should a leader fighting an occupying power not seek help from the enemies of the occupying power?


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## browsing deer (Oct 21, 2015)

I blame Roosevelt for his cowardly actions too.  His actions regarding the ship is worse than disgusting.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 21, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Nazis, Muslims, and American leftists are all united in their bitter hatred of Jews. (and Christians.)


I'm a leftist.

Why would I hate Jews?


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## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Nazis, Muslims, and American leftists are all united in their bitter hatred of Jews. (and Christians.)
> ...



Go to DailyKos and let us know.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 21, 2015)

montelatici said:


> I don't understand.  Should a leader fighting an occupying power not seek help from the enemies of the occupying power?


The answer is_ "yes, he should"._


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## Billo_Really (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Go to DailyKos and let us know.


Don't have to.

If you make a claim, you should be able to explain it.


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## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Go to DailyKos and let us know.
> ...



Lefties are secular.
Nothing hurts a non-observant more than spitting in his grandparents faces by turning on their religion.
The reaction-formation...hatred towards their genealogy.


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## montelatici (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Pope Francis is secular?


----------



## theliq (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Trouble is with your summation Indi,is that we live in a more ENLIGHTENED AGE......What was right for them is bizzare for us.steve


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## Billo_Really (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Lefties are secular.
> Nothing hurts a non-observant more than spitting in his grandparents faces by turning on their religion.
> The reaction-formation...hatred towards their genealogy.


What does that have to do with me?


----------



## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



You expect a follower of RC Dogma to support a Jewish State?
I think we can assume His Eminence has no such thoughts or feelings.
Jews simply don't give a damn about what the Pope thinks or feels; should we?


----------



## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Lefties are secular.
> ...



Are you dumber than usual today?
Leftists HATE Jews AND Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Are you dumber than usual today?
> Leftists HATE Jews AND Israel.


Why is that?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Since we number well over a billion people with many in the world's wealthiest and most powerful nations, you better give a damn what the Pope thinks or feels.


----------



## montelatici (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Sorry, the right wing Nazis and Fascists hate Jews.  Leftists hate Zionists.


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## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Leftists love Jews who suck up to non-Jews because that's what Leftists do.


----------



## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



I trust in God as He apportions success.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> I trust in God as He apportions success.


You need to realize the possibility exists, that God doesn't like you!


----------



## montelatici (Oct 21, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Beyond the 1.2 billion Roman Catholics, there are about 2 billion Christians in the world and 15 million Jews.  Who do you think God has apportioned success to?


----------



## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



[The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people--for ye were the fewest of all peoples--  Deuteronomy 7:7]
If you've got a lot of people on your religion, you're in the wrong camp.
We're like the Marines.


----------



## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You're equating success with fertilized eggs?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 21, 2015)

Success as a people is related to the ability to multiply as the Bible says.


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## Indeependent (Oct 21, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Success as a people is related to the ability to multiply as the Bible says.


The verse?


----------



## Jroc (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




Jewish women and children are being stabbed in the streets but, CAIR girl worries more about what Netanyahu said, and who wanted the Gas chambers first, Hitler or the Mufti


----------



## Jroc (Oct 21, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


A terrorist apologist, what else would you expect from CAIR girl


----------



## Jroc (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Too many muslims believe dead Jews are part of islam


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## Jroc (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> browsing deer said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was a loon who was crazy beyond crazy.  He had the trains carrying munitions to the front wait for trains carrying victims (NOT exclusively jews) to the slaughter.
> ...


is this part of the "current tension and violence" CAIR girl? why'd you delete it?


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Oct 22, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Success as a people is related to the ability to multiply as the Bible says.



That must be why Catholics don't believe in Birth Control. They multiply like rabbits


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## theliq (Oct 22, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > browsing deer said:
> ...


Come On Roc,you can do better than this vid,just sayin..steve


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Oct 22, 2015)

"Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust"

That Netanyahu is an idiot comes as no surprise. 

We heard the same lies and baseless nonsense concerning the accord with Iran.


----------



## Daniyel (Oct 22, 2015)

Matter of fact Netanyahu always did, *reasonably* IMHO.

Netanyahu: ‘We’ve Seen This Before. There's a Master Race; Now There's a Master Faith’


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## theliq (Oct 22, 2015)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Success as a people is related to the ability to multiply as the Bible says.
> ...


Some do ILOVE


----------



## fanger (Oct 22, 2015)




----------



## theliq (Oct 22, 2015)

fanger said:


>


Yeah,you are right Fanger......The NUT IS A COMPLETE NUTCASE


----------



## Challenger (Oct 22, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Matter of fact Netanyahu always did, *reasonably* IMHO.
> 
> Netanyahu: ‘We’ve Seen This Before. There's a Master Race; Now There's a Master Faith’


Master faith? Oh yes, Judaism as perverted by the Zionist master race.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
> 
> ...







 You cant get away from the facts that the grand mufti ran to Germany for protection, and it is documented that before that he asked Hitler for more Jews because he was running out of targets. He might have had no influence but he did become Hitler's ally and aided him in his final solution


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > *The Mufti of Jerusalem salutes the Bosnian SS division*
> ...






 So do you see the Palestinians denial of the holocaust in the same light, or do you ignore it because " we all know the Jews lied about the holocaust"


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







Did you understand that part you singled out then, as it says that Hitler gave the Mufti the go ahead to mass murder the Jews already in Palestine as there were plenty more were they came from. It was through the Mufti that the Nuremberg laws came to be passed as they are based on the pact of Omar that the mufti explained to his friends in the Nazi party.


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## Penelope (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/w...red-holocaust-draws-broad-criticism.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They have much riding on the WWII war, and the death of the Polish Jews, who were the poorer orthodox Jews, the Hasidic , that even the secular Jews wanted nothing to do with.

Also the Grand Muffi by this time knew of the plan of the Zionist and didn't want the Zionist there, and I do not believe for a minute that Hitler build all this camps just to exterminate the jews of Poland. So actually what Bibi said was right in a way,
The Grand Muffit did ally with Germany, two man meeting together for same cause, we do not want the Zionist taking over out countries, kinda like Churchill and Stalin met.

The part he is wrong about is planned genocide. This was a war, most died to starvation and typhus, and over 65 million died in the war.

The OP's post for bringing this up once again it to lay blame on the Palestinians of course and continue the fighting. He wants the fighting. He has never wanted peace.


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Penelope said:


> The Grand Muffit was used by the Zionist British to fight the Turks  and he along with Palestinian armies fought the Turks, and then finds out that it was already in the Plans to give Palestine to the Zionist.
> 
> He was also upset with the British, who back stabbed him and he did not want the Zionist there, and Hitler knew just what he meant, as they were taking over Berlin.
> 
> Everyone says Hitler was anti Semitic. The Arabs are more Semitic than the Russian Zionist ever thought of being.







 Wrong again as he fought against the British for the Ottomans, that is why he was an Ottoman officer in their army.


 You really must stop trying to rewrite history so it meets with your islamonazi propaganda


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Matter of fact Netanyahu always did, *reasonably* IMHO.
> ...







 The master race being Aryan socialists and the master faith being islam. It is all spelt out in the ideologies.


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/w...red-holocaust-draws-broad-criticism.html?_r=0
> ...







 STOP LYING


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## Challenger (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
> 
> ...



Oh, I'd like to respond to this but I'm too busy laughing. Of course as Nutandyahoo has spoken, you should expect a rash of Mufti=Evil posts from all the Zio-wannabes. Even funnier, he later had to defend himself from charges of Holocaust denial...too funny for words.

Of course the downside of all this is that Nutandyahoo is using this to demonise Palestinians in preparation for the ethnic cleansing of Jerusalem.


----------



## Challenger (Oct 22, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> ...


Because it's a myth. Like saying, look we had Oswald Mosely, Britain therefore supported Hitler or look the German-American Bund proves America was a Fascist state.


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## theliq (Oct 22, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> ...


Outstanding Post Challenger


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> ...







 That you have no evidence for but it will incite violence against the Jews and could lead to a Jew getting murdered. What a great guy you are inciting murder because you hate the Jews so much


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 Grasping at straws now as Mosely was hated and reviled by the whole British nation, and spent more time inder arrest than he did free.


----------



## theliq (Oct 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


never use spell checker,i'm too intelligent to fuck around with such nonsence lol...I have a few typo's so that people like you don't feel too inadiquat LOL


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## theliq (Oct 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


PS Please note your spelling error on Post111......Glass Houses Pheo........Glass Houses by the way it is not INDER ARREST but under arrest.....so much for your Spell Check....see Pheo you know I am far too street-wise and clever for you..........I love Australia,Hey Ho I have to let you go


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## Jroc (Oct 22, 2015)

theliq said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



the video demonstrates the heart of the problem. Jew hatred Perpetrated by the islamic nutjobs


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## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Delta4Embassy said:
> ...



As an elected MP for 11 years you might find that he was NOT "hated and reviled by the whole British nation"...

How long was he in prison for? I think a little over 3 years? 

You making shit up again Phoney?


----------



## montelatici (Oct 22, 2015)

Jroc said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



You invade a land and then hate the people you invaded because they happened to live on the land.  Makes sense.


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...





 So before he became a fascist he was an M.P. and gave it up before he was kicked out. Arrested shortly after the war began and interred until 1943 when he was placed under house arrest. Read his life story and you see he bought his way into public life.

 Unlike you I don't need the twist facts to support any of my claims the facts speak for themselves. So Mosely the fascist was not an MP was he ?


----------



## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



He was an elected MP for 11 years... You said "Mosely was hated and reviled by the whole British nation"... Thats a LIE Phoney

He was in prison for a little over 3 years... You said "spent more time inder arrest than he did free" Thats a LIE Phoney

You can see where this is leading now can't you....

You are a proven LIAR Phoney... AGAIN!

You wouldn't know a 'fact' or 'truth' if it crept up behind you and kicked you in the zionut arse!


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...







 Then the muslims should not have invaded the land should they, after all they already had 99.9% of the M.E. to destroy


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > I don't claim to be intelligent
> ...






 Cherry picking again to make yourself look good, pity you just show how much of an immature fool you are


----------



## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Cherry picking Phoney?

No, no dear boy...

Simply quoting what you said about yourself...

And I certainly do not need to waste my time making you look like a fool to make me look good...

You do that all by yourself!


----------



## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...






 Then why not the full post, or would that not have been the same and you could not imply anything by it. Called cherry picking and one of the last resorts for disinformation taught by the Russians to discredit the west.


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



He had then interred.  The final solution came after the arrest of the jews in Europe had begun, after the meeting with the mufti.  Yes, hitler let some leave, without their funds in the early years.  The final solution was not part of his original idea, but eliminating them in the Europe was.  Most camps used the jews and other prisoners for forced labor, slaves. 
Mufti was a major encouragement of the final solution.  He did not want the jews to go to the middle east.  The mufti's fight with the jews began in the early 20's, before hitler.  He took his hate with him and wanted all jews killed, not just removed from Europe or the middle east.

We have transcript of the what the talks involved if not a word for word.  There were more meets recorded than actual releases of topics between the two.
I wish I had my library of books, There were at least two very good books that detail the relationship between the two in german that  used for reference decades ago.  I know there have been dozens in English, I'm sure many have details of the text as well.  The nazi recorded and documented everything, almost.  Hitler and mufti were not just two leaders shaking hands, there was a bond and mutual support of ideas and actions.

Towards the end Hitler gave the mufti millions in gold to carry on the final solution in the middle east.

They were both culpable, regardless who first came up with the idea.  They both were advocates of the final solution, the extermination of all jews.  Since the mufti was the first to incite the killing of jews, it is logical that he encouraged hitler to kill rather than expel the jews.  They both had great reason to want the jews dead.  They both acted and had jews killed in masses.  The both wanted the memory of jews to be erased.  They were both mass murders.  They each support the other in their goals.

Flip a coin, they are both guilt of the holocaust

How was Bibi wrong?  Palestinians and many other arabs still want the extermination of the jews.  They are still trying to wipe the jews from history.  They use the same propaganda and libels that the nazis used.  They still use the same language, they follow hitlers book, the most read after the quran. 

None of this has been a secret.  This is just what was, and still is.  Why do people fain shock as if this is a new revelation?  When the mufti was expelled by the brits, he ran to hitler.  From that point on the jewish issue change intensity.  Make a timeline and see after each meeting with the mufti how events changed.

I really don't know why this is even news.


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## montelatici (Oct 22, 2015)

You are so full of shit.  You just make things up, have you no shame? 

Palestinians just want the offspring of the Jews that took their land to go back to Europe, Russia etc.  where their ancestors came from.  They want their land back.

Can't you understand something so damn simple?

Regarding Nutty Yahoo's bullshit:

"Prof. Meir Litvak, a historian at Tel Aviv University, called the speech “a lie” and “a disgrace.” Prof. Moshe Zimmermann, a specialist of German history at Hebrew University, said, *“With this, Netanyahu joins a long line of people that we would call Holocaust deniers.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/w...red-holocaust-draws-broad-criticism.html?_r=0*


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## jillian (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
> 
> ...



while i'm sure Israel appreciates your advice, I've never seen you equipped to opine on this subject... well, except when you defend sunni ijit.


----------



## jillian (Oct 22, 2015)

montelatici said:


> You are so full of shit.  You just make things up, have you no shame?
> 
> Palestinians just want the offspring of the Jews that took their land to go back to Europe, Russia etc.  where their ancestors came from.  They want their land back.
> 
> ...



so spaketh one of the jew-hating spambots.....


----------



## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



The reason it is news is this:  A state leader is making *deliberately false remarks designed to inflame tensions, fear and further demonize people*.  What he is doing I might add - is no different than the Palestinian leadership in mixing truth and fiction to inflame.    *What is Netanyahu's purpose in pushing this at this particular time?  *

There are many people guilty of the Holocaust to greater and lesser extents, but this is an attempt to portray the Mufti, not as one of the many lesser, but as The Archetect of the Final Solution and there is little factual evidence to show it.  It's as dishonest a rewriting of history as the Holocaust Deniers  and that isn't just me saying that, it is respectable historians. No one is "white washing" the Mufti, but he was by far a lesser evil than Hitler and to make false statements such as Netanyahu made, coupled with things he said during the election make his motives questionable.  

On Mein Kampf, it's popularity varies across the Arab World.  In one Palestinian Poll it was 4th most popular, in Turkey it was 6th in the best seller list.  It also made the LA Times best seller list as an E-Book.  Given the rise of intolerance and ethnic/religious nationalism it is disturbing.  But that is no reason to use deliberate distortions to further inflame tensions.  Leaders have a duty to calm fears and keep their citizens secure (ALL their citizens).  Is ANYONE doing this?  Is this what Netanyahu is doing?

Amin al-Husseini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
_*The Holocaust*

*Al-Husseini and the Holocaust*

In post-war historiography some attempts have been made to portray Husseini as an architect of the Holocaust, a thesis revived recently by Schwanitz and Rubin.[168] In October 2015, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's revived the claim, stating that al-Husseini bore some responsibility for the Holocaust. His remarks were broadly criticized, and dismissed by Holocaust and Israeli scholars.[169][170] [171] Documents, such as the testimony of Fritz Grobba,[172] confirm that an associate of al-Husseini's, together with three associates of the former Iraqi Prime Minister certainly did visit the Sachsenhausen concentration camp as part of a German secret police "training course" in July 1942. At the time, the Sachsenhausen camp housed large numbers of Jews, but was only transformed into a death camp in the following year.[173] Their tour through the camp presented it as a re-educational institution, and they were shown the high quality of objects made by inmates, and happy Russian prisoners who, reformed to fight Bolshevism, were paraded, singing, in sprightly new uniforms. They left the camp very favourably impressed by its programme of educational indoctrination.[174]


Various sources have repeatedly alleged that he visited other concentration camps, and also the death camps of Auschwitz, Majdanek, Treblinka and Mauthausen, *but according to Höpp there is little conclusive documentary evidence to substantiate these other visits.*[175] Although some historians have questioned al-Husseini's knowledge of the Holocaust while it was in progress, Wolfgang G. Schwanitz notes that in his memoirs Husseini recalled that Heinrich Himmler, in the summer of 1943, while confiding some German war secrets, inveighed against Jewish "war guilt", and revealed the ongoing extermination (in Arabic, abadna) of the Jews.[176]


Gilbert Achcar, referring to this meeting with Himmler, observes:


The Mufti was well aware that the European Jews were being wiped out; he never claimed the contrary. Nor, unlike some of his present-day admirers, did he play the ignoble, perverse, and stupid game of Holocaust denial... . His amour-propre would not allow him to justify himself to the Jews... .gloating that the Jews had paid a much higher price than the Germans... he cites... : 'Their losses in the Second World War represent more than thirty percent of the total number of their people ...'. Statements like this, from a man who was well placed to know what the Nazis had done ... constitute a powerful argument against Holocaust deniers. Husseini reports that Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler ... told him in summer 1943 that the Germans had ‘already exterminated more than three million’ Jews: "I was astonished by this figure, as I had known nothing about the matter until then." ... Thus. in 1943, Husseini knew about the genocide... .[177]


The memoir then continues:-


Himmler asked me on the occasion: 'How do you propose to settle the Jewish question in your country?' I replied: 'All we want from them is that they return to their countries of origin.' He (Himmler) replied: 'We shall never authorize their return to Germany.'[178]


Wolfgang G. Schwanitz doubts the sincerity of his surprise since, he argues, Husseini had publicly declared that Muslims should follow the example Germans set for a "definitive solution to the Jewish problem".[179]


Subsequently, the Mufti declared in November 1943:


It is the duty of Muhammadans [Muslims] in general and Arabs in particular to ... drive all Jews from Arab and Muhammadan countries... . Germany is also struggling against the common foe who oppressed Arabs and Muhammadans in their different countries. It has very clearly recognized the Jews for what they are and resolved to find a definitive solution [endgültige Lösung] for the Jewish danger that will eliminate the scourge that Jews represent in the world.[180]


At the Nuremberg trials, one of Adolf Eichmann's deputies, Dieter Wisliceny, stated that al-Husseini had actively encouraged the extermination of European Jews, and that he had had an elaborate meeting with Eichmann at his office, during which Eichmann gave him an intensive look at the current state of the "Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe" by the Third Reich. *The allegation is dismissed by most serious historians.*[181] A single affidavit by Rudolf Kastner reported that Wisliceny told him that he had overheard Husseini say he had visited Auschwitz incognito in Eichmann's company.[182] Eichmann denied this at his trial in Jerusalem in 1961. He had been invited to Palestine in 1937 with his superior Hagen by a representative of the Haganah, Feival Polkes,[183] Polkes supported German foreign policy in the Near East and offered to work for them in intelligence. Eichmann and Hagen spent one night in Haifa but were refused a visa to stay any longer.[184] They met Polkes in Cairo instead.[184][185] Eichmann stated that he had only been introduced to al-Husseini during an official reception, along with all other department heads. The Jerusalem court accepted Wisliceny's testimony about a key conversation between Eichmann and the mufti,[186] and found as proven that al-Husseini had aimed to implement the Final Solution.[187] Hannah Arendt, who was present at the trial, concluded in her book, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil, t*hat the evidence for an Eichmann- al-Husseini connection was based on rumour and unfounded*.[188][189]


Rafael Medoff concludes that 'actually *there is no evidence that the Mufti's presence was a factor at all; the Wisliceny hearsay is not merely uncorroborated, but conflicts with everything else that is known about the origins of the Final Solution*.'[190] Bernard Lewis also called Wisliceny's testimony into doubt: 'There is no independent documentary confirmation of Wisliceny's statements, and it seems unlikely that the Nazis needed any such additional encouragement from the outside.'[191] Bettina Stangneth called Wisliceny's claims "colourful stories" that "carry little weight".[192]_​


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

jillian said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> ...


 
Do you have anything to say in relation to the OP?  Nope.  Didn't think so.  Have a good day.


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## browsing deer (Oct 22, 2015)

In 1939 jews were forbidden immigrants everywhere.  Including the US.  

Jews wanted to immigrate to the British mandate.  The Mufti started riots.  In order to calm the situation down the british forbade imigration at the muftis instigation.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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1.  No one is denying the Mufti was a hateful little antisemite who was responsible for war crimes - that isn't the issue.  He was an evil man.
2.  Do you have a link or proof for your second claim?

Reality Check:
The Nuremberg laws were passed in 1935.
There is nothing there that indicates the Mufti had anything to do with it.  His first approach to Hitler was 1940.


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

montelatici said:


> You are so full of shit.  You just make things up, have you no shame?
> 
> Palestinians just want the offspring of the Jews that took their land to go back to Europe, Russia etc.  where their ancestors came from.  They want their land back.
> 
> ...







 You cant understand something even more simple, it was never the arab muslims land in the first place. They lost it when they sided with the Ottomans  during WW1. The mandate made it very clear that the land would be 78% arab muslim ruled by a Saudi king to keep the muslims in line, and 22% to be ruled by a Jewish democracy.


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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 Did you miss this fact when you read the wiki entry

 Some scholars, such as Schwanitz and Rubin, say that Husseini was an architect of the Holocaust.[168] In October 2015, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stated that al-Husseini inspired Hitler to systematically exterminate Jews in the Holocaust, rather than deracinating the Jewish population of Nazi-occupied Europe to modern-day Israel.
Documents, such as the testimony of Fritz Grobba,[172] confirm that an associate of al-Husseini's, together with three associates of the former Iraqi Prime Minister certainly did visit the Sachsenhausen concentration camp as part of a German secret police "training course" in July 1942. At the time, the Sachsenhausen camp housed large numbers of Jews, but was only transformed into a death camp in the following year.[173] Their tour through the camp presented it as a re-educational institution, and they were shown the high quality of objects made by inmates, and happy Russian prisoners who, reformed to fight Bolshevism, were paraded, singing, in sprightly new uniforms. They left the camp very favourably impressed by its programme of educational indoctrination


 So you see he was culpable of the crime of genocide


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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 "Some scholars" -- however, did you notice the specifics that were said to have no evidence supporting the claims?

"_*The allegation is dismissed by most serious historians*"_

_What Netanyahu said was patently false and designed to further stoke fear and inflame._


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## Phoenall (Oct 22, 2015)

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 Same as the pact of Omar if you look in many ways


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## Lipush (Oct 22, 2015)

"...Dared Professor Simon blaming the six million of Jews in Europe who died by the hands of Germany's Nazis- 'their fault' said it was. Where they not wise enough to buy the friendship or love of Hitler? The danger rising from the dictator of Egypt, a state which hurt the Jews after the Nazis took over this part of the world? ... Was it not known that the Mufti was both an accomplice and advisor of the genocide plot, that in most Arabs states admiration of Hitler increased during the second world-war? Is the respected professor positive that without the IDF's strengths, we wouldn't have met the same fate?"

-David Ben-Gurion, April 5th, 1961.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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It's the same as old anti-Jewish laws in a number of European countries as well so the comparison is meaningless and there is no indicatin that the Nuremberg laws came through the Mufti.  Again, it's trying to minimize what Hitler did.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

So again - what is Netanyahu's purpose in deliberately distorting history in this manner and at this particular time?


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Mufti had been in communication with Hitler since '33.  Final solution was not even suggested till '41.  Jews were persecuted and being rounded up, but the extermination did not begin till after the Mufti and Hitler discussed it.

Make a timeline of all correspondance and meeting with Germany and the mufti, then add in the direct meeting with Hitler.  Compare that to the jewish question.

Sorry but it is not coincident when things changed.

Check the library, I'm sure there are lot of good books in English going back from the end of the war till the last decade, all connecting the mufti, hitler and holocaust.  most of my books were dated from the 50's to 80's, with copies of german documents.  I wish I still had access to them.

You expected the mufti to dissuade hitler?  To suggest alternatives?  You think the Mufti was neutral?  That he was not thrilled by the final solution?  That he took action to save masses of jews?  He had been advocating the extermination since the 20's.  The Mufti actively incited and justified massacres of jews.  Now you want to white wash his image?  Nothing suggest the mufti did not feed hitler's hate and paranoia.  Mufti was paid to carry on the holocaust in eastern Europe and the middle east, in gold.

>>Dr. Serge Trifkovic documents the similarities between Al Husseini's brand of radical Islam and Nazism in his book The Sword of the Prophet. He noted parallels in both ideologies: anti-Semitism, quest for world dominance, demand for the total subordination of the free will of the individual, belief in the abolishment of the nation-state in favor of a "higher" community (in Islam the umma or community of all believers; in Nazism, the herrenvolk or master race), and belief in undemocratic governance by a "divine" leader (an Islamic caliph, or Nazi führer).

The Nazis provided Al Husseini with luxurious accommodations in Berlin and a monthly stipend in excess of $10,000. In return, he regularly appeared on German radio touting the Jews as the "most fierce enemies of Muslims," and implored an adoption of the Nazi "final solution" by Arabs. After the Nazi defeat at El Alamein in 1942, Al Husseini broadcast radio messages on Radio Berlin calling for continued Arabic resistance to Allied forces. In time, he came to be known as the "Fuhrer's Mufti" and the "Arab Fuhrer."

In March 1944, Al Husseini broadcast a call for a jihad to "kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion."

On numerous occasions, Al Husseini intervened in the fate of European Jews, most notably blocking Adolph Eichmann's deal with the Red Cross to exchange Jewish children for German POWs.

Moreover, Al Husseini personally recruited Bosnia Muslims for the German Waffen SS, including the Skanderberg Division from Albania and Hanjer Division from Bosnia. The Hanjer (Saber) Division of the Waffen SS was responsible for the murder of over 90 percent of the Yugoslavian Jewish population.

SS leader Heinrich Himmler was so pleased with Al Husseini's Muslim Nazis that he established the Dresden-based Mullah Military School for their continued recruitment and training. In 1944, Hanjer commandos parachuted into Tel Aviv and poisoned drinking wells in Jewish communities in an effort to stir up ethnic tensions.<<

Now you want to rewrite history to soften the mufti's involvement?  The muslim brotherhood was support by hitler since the mid 30's.  The mufti living in berlin for almost five years as a special guest of hitler's forking out $12 million a year, plus paying for his muslim SS army and the MB in the middle east.

You think hitler just through the mufti was a nice guy?  You think Hitler was so generous when most germans earned maybe a couple thousand a year?

After the '41 meeting hitler made a public statement that "(the Fuhrer) would carry on the battle to the total destruction of the Judeo-Communist empire in Europe. A few months later the actual plans were drawn up to carry out the final solution and then put into play.  Hitler even gave the mufti a written declaration of support and the plans they discussed after that meeting.  How is this coincidence?


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
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>>Günther, Niklas; Zankel, Sönke (2006). Günther, Niklas; Zankel, Sönke, eds. _Abrahams Enkel Juden, Christen, Muslime und die Schoa_. Franz Steiner Verlag. ISBN 978-3-515-08979-1.<<


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## Penelope (Oct 22, 2015)

Well I do not believe there was any planned genocide, but I'm sure he is right, neither men wanted the Jews to settle or stay in their countries, but then again, no one wanted them. They either did not want to assimilate into the culture or they wanted to control the country they were in,
just like they are now in Palestine. Also its no secret they were very into national communism. the Zionist are into supremacy and capitalism, AKA, world domination using money and intimidation.


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Final solution was years after the Nuremberg laws.
and the Mufti was in correspondance with Germany since '33.  He was preaching against the jews since the early '20s.


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## Desperado (Oct 22, 2015)

Netanyahu is just trying to vilify the the  Palestinians and try to turn public opinion against them .


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## Hossfly (Oct 22, 2015)

Desperado said:


> Netanyahu is just trying to vilify the the  Palestinians and try to turn public opinion against them .


The Palestinians do a better job of vilifying themselves than Bibi ever could.


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## Alex. (Oct 22, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Netanyahu is just trying to vilify the the  Palestinians and try to turn public opinion against them .
> ...




Truer words were never spoken!


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## skye (Oct 22, 2015)

There is no historical doubt whatsoever that the Mufti of Jerusalem   overwhelmingly  agreed with Hitler's deadly policies against the Jews.

He and  Hitler  both shared rabid  antisemitic view points and had many close meetings regarding the "Jewish problem".

Hitler did not need the Mufti to formulate his policy regarding the  Holocaust  but was certainly encouraged by the Mufti's opinions.


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## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

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Not cherry picking Phoney...

Just highlighting the ONLY thing that was of any interest in your post!

What have the Russians got to do with your admittance that you aren't intelligent?

Still struggling to find the right meds?


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## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

jillian said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> ...



The 'princess' has spoken! hahahaha!


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## skye (Oct 22, 2015)

Humanity said:


> jillian said:
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And the donkey has brayed!   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Alex. (Oct 22, 2015)

skye said:


> There is no historical doubt whatsoever that the Mufti of Jerusalem   overwhelmingly  agreed with Hitler's deadly policies against the Jews.
> 
> He and  Hitler  both shared rabid  antisemitic view points and had many close meetings regarding the "Jewish problem".
> 
> Hitler did not need the Mufti to formulate his policy regarding the  Holocaust  but was certainly encouraged by the Mufti's opinions.


To me it is the chicken or egg question I believe they fed off each other.


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## montelatici (Oct 22, 2015)

Certainly, any Christian or Muslim living in Palestine would have wanted the Jewish invasion of their land to be stopped in any way possible.  Does anyone believe the Christians and Muslims of Palestine should have welcomed the invasion of the Jews,  which led to the dispossession of their land and eviction?  I don't understand why anyone thinks the Christians and Muslims should not have wished for the elimination of the threat from the European Jews that were planning to eliminate them.


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## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

Hillarious...

'Copy & Paste Brigade' zionuts who really have little understanding of 1) The OP 2) The topic 3) The grave situation in the ME

There are far too many zionuts trying to deflect this tread and 'defend' Nut&yahoo...

Zionut personified...

When prominent historians, Israelis included, Israeli ministers and opposition, the German chancellor ALL declare that it was Hitler and Germany who were responsible for the holocaust...

Nut&yahoo has 'chummed up' with Hitler in an attempt to vilify the Palestinians during a time of unrest in the ME...

He does not deserve to hold the position he holds and he is certainly not helping the situation in the region...

There is not ONE zionut who is prepared to accept that he has done an injustice to the Jews, that he has simply worsened the situation in the ME and has virtually absolved Hitler and Germany of the Holocaust by trying to pass the blame to the Palestinians!

What a 'clever' politician Mr Netanyahu is... NOT!

Anyone with half a brain would see that the Mufti was looking for support and an ally to support his quest for a Palestinian/Arab state...

Why were Americans, British, French etc, and Zionists seeking court with Hitler?

Yeah you guessed it... Looking for support, in whatever form possible! 

This has to be the biggest faux pas in Nut&yahoo's history of 'faux pas'...

He is not worthy of heading the state of Israel... He is clearly a desperate man...


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## montelatici (Oct 22, 2015)

So, Nutty Yahoo thinks Hitler was not responsible for the Holocaust and that the Palestinians were.  Desperate man.


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## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

skye said:


> Humanity said:
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Oh no...

Not another 'princess'...

Sorry your highness, I thought you said something interesting...

My mistake, it was just a fart!


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Final Solution was prior to any meeting with the Mufti and Hitler.  The Mufti's communications were rejected by Germany until 1941.

The point that everyone ignores is the deliberate distortion of history in Netanyahu's remarks - he quotes a "quote" that no one can find any reference to in historical documents.  He deliberately aligns Palestinains with Hitler and places the Mufti above Hitler in Evil, as the Architect of the Final Solution.  And he does so at this particular time.

WHY?


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## Humanity (Oct 22, 2015)

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The deliberate lie was purely to incite further violence and create a 'reason' for Israel to unleash it's mighty army against stone throwing children...

A 'great' leader... Nah, don't think so!


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

*Guys - let's take stick to the topic please - farters and princess' can go to the FZ.*


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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and the rhetoric continues..............

Netanyahou l'affirme: C'est Dark Vador qui a dit à Hitler de tuer les juifs

Go back to the facts.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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It's in French.  I can't read it.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

And again - why does Netanyahu choose this moment to say the things he said?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Google Translate


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> And again - why does Netanyahu choose this moment to say the things he said?


I can't imagine it has anything to do with Arab Serial Killers.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > And again - why does Netanyahu choose this moment to say the things he said?
> ...



So...you decide to inflame fears and tensions with deliberate distortions?  That's what a head of state is supposed to do?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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Google translate is a bit laughable with what it comes up with.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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No; that's not what you do.
But he still currently has to deal with a million potential Arab Serial Killers.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Netanyahu: Hitler Didn't Want to Exterminate the Jews



> Prime minister tells World Zionist Congress that Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews, but Jerusalem's Grand Mufti convinced him to exterminate them, a claim that was rejected by most accepted Holocaust scholars.
> 
> In a speech before the World Zionist Congress in Jerusalem, Netanyahu described a meeting between Husseini and Hitler in November, 1941: "Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jew. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here (to Palestine).' According to Netanyahu, Hitler then asked: "What should I do with them?" and the mufti replied: "Burn them."



Yet that dialogue never took place and that quote is not verified.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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He has to deal with a very tense situation where Israeli Jews are afraid of Arab attackers and Israeli Arabs are afraid of Jewish retaliation.  BOTH are Israeli citizens.  At this point - stoking fear and inflaming tensions with statements like that is sheer irresponsibility.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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Mathematically, you have stated "Israeli Jews are afraid of Arab attackers and Israeli Arabs are afraid of Jewish retaliation" in the correct order.
Morally, you are equating retaliation with deliberate murder.
You've got to be kidding yourself.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 22, 2015)

Netanyahu engages in Holocaust denial.  No surprise.  He will say absolutely anything for political expediency, no matter how outrageous or how big a lie.


"And this attack and other attacks on the Jewish community in 1920, 1921, 1929, were instigated by a call of the Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, who was later sought for war crimes in the Nuremberg trials because he had a central role in fomenting the final solution. He flew to Berlin. Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.' "​

Responding to the statement, Isaac Herzog, the Israeli leader of the opposition Zionist Union party, said the remark was *"a dangerous distortion of history [that] trivializes the Holocaust, trivializes the Nazis* and the share of the terrible dictator Adolf Hitler's terrible tragedy of our people during the Holocaust."

*Reporting on the controversy in Germany, Der Spiegel notes that several months before Hitler met with al-Husseini, the German SS had already killed tens of thousands of Jews in Lithuania and Ukraine. The newspaper also cites two Israeli history professors who disagree with Netanyahu — including one, Meir Litvak, who says Hitler was already planning a genocide in 1939.*

"Al-Husseini was an enthusiastic Nazi supporter who helped recruit Bosnian Muslims to their side and whose anti-Semitism was well-documented," the AP reports. The news agency also cites historian Moshe Zimmermann of Jerusalem's Hebrew University, who said *the mufti was a "lightweight" whose offer to form a formal treaty was rejected by Hitler.
*
With his remarks about Hitler, _Der Spiegel_ says, *Netanyahu echoed some of the sentiments of historical revisionists and Holocaust deniers who have said Hitler's main intention had been to expel Jews from Germany.*


After Netanyahu's Holocaust Remark, Germany Cites Its Own 'Break With Civilization'


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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Murder is murder, and if you disguise it as "retaliation" it is no less murder when innocent people are killed.


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## Votto (Oct 22, 2015)

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I don't think it is all that big of a deal.

Don't get me wrong, I disagree that the Grand Mufti motivated Hitler to try and exterminate the Jews.  Looking at centuries prior of anti-Semitism in Europe, I think that the Holocaust was a normal climax of Jew hatred.  Everything that Hitler did to the Jews, stars of David, ghettos, mass killings, etc., had already been done in Europe over the centuries.  Hitler simply did it on a larger scale.

What I do think is good is for people to understand that the Grand Mufti was on a Crusade against Zionists before the Zionists even obtained their land.  He was wanted for Nazi war crimes after the war but evaded capture.  His nephew was then none other than Yassar Arafat.  Yassar even changed his name so as to not be linked to his uncle, but he was discovered anyway.

In my mind, Hitler's ambition to kill Jews lives through the Grand Mufti and the Palestinian movement that has spread all over the Middle East.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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Bullshit.
Muslims are murdering humans all over the globe.
One Jew says something and you equate that with murder.
Are you an idiot?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Votto said:


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Nah.  They are in denial that the Torah has their forefather, Ishmael, being kicked out of the house Of Abraham and Sarah.
But what the hey, what's a few million murders of fellow Muslims, Christians and Jews over 1,000 year period?


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## Votto (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
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If nothing else, it will cause people to study the life of the Grand Mufti which will help them understand why Islam and fascism married each other long ago.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Votto said:


> Indeependent said:
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I hope you're right.


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> And again - why does Netanyahu choose this moment to say the things he said?



Why did the palestinians advocate and carry a spree of stabbing and killing Israelis?  "stab the jews" "kill jews", "exterminate jews", "wipe out the jews".................
It's like the mufti all over again.

Israelis are mad about this wave of attacks everyday.  Netanyahu's language reflects that.  He is not saying anything new.  It was no state secret. 
Maybe if more Palestinians, and the world realize the connection, they won't so easily dismiss events today.   They might change their course and seek different language and actions or move back to talks better yet.

People need to be reminded that security for the Israelis is vital to prevent another holocaust of jews.  Israelis have a right to protect themselves from guns, knives, cars, rocks, molotovs and any attacks.

Abbas has been inciting for months, and he was portrayed as the moderate by the world.  Hamas is giving detailed instruction on sharpening a knife and how to use it to stab jews.  Praising attacks and even offering money to remaining family for those who attack.

Why shouldn't the world remember and maybe be concerned by the wave of violence which could if it keeps growing be the beginning of another holocaust?

Why can arab incite violence over every media but Israelis have to carefully dance around their every word uttered?

Mufti was no saint and culpable for the holocaust then and the violence now.  Sorry but that is fact.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

,


Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
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You don't seem to comprehend what I wrote.  Are you an idiot?

I'm talking about Palestinians killing Jews and Jews killing Palestinians.  This is occurring.  When the people being targeted are innocent, it's usually called "murder".


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## Votto (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Votto said:
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Actually, the Grand Mufti was kicked out of Palestine by his fellow Muslims for being a murderous trouble maker.

Islam at one time had a period of tolerance and a source for higher education.  However, now it has changed into fascism and the need to suppress history as you see Muslims around the world destroy ancient relics and burn Joseph's tomb etc.  It reminds me of the Nazi book burnings.

Make no mistake, Nazism lives through radical Islam.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
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> 
> > And again - why does Netanyahu choose this moment to say the things he said?
> ...



So your argument is because the Palestinian leadership is doing it, the Israeli leadership should do it?  Great way to explode the murder rate on both sides.  Netanyahu has been inflamming the situation everybit has much as Abbas, but he gets a free pass from you.

And yes, Mufti was no saint - no one is making that argument - but he was not Hitler's mentor, as Netanyahu would have you believe.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> One Jew says something and you equate that with murder.


I equate it with Holocaust denialism.

And so do senior Israeli Rabbis.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Jews are NOT killing Palestinians; don't even TRY pulling that one off.
One crowd of Jews on edge for weeks runs after ONE Arab and you're equating them to Muslim MASS SERIAL MURDERS?
I call bullshit on you.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Synthaholic said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > One Jew says something and you equate that with murder.
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So big deal.
You want to be dropped off in Ramalah for an hour wearing the religious symbol of your choice?
Let's us know where to bury your beheaded body.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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Read the news before spouting off.


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## Votto (Oct 22, 2015)

Synthaholic said:


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> ...



I don't equate it with Holocaust denial.  Do you know why?  It is because both Hitler and the Grand Mufti were murderous Jew hating thugs.  The only question becomes, who had the idea first?  Well who really gives a damn?

Conversely, the Holocaust denial movement is based upon the assumption that the Zionists were given the land in large part because of their suffering abroad in Europe over the centuries that climaxed in Nazi Germany.  Therefore, they wish to rewrite history in order to erase the empathy towards their need to have their own country back.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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You spout this "Equal" bullshit all the time.
Muslims are murdering people all around the globe and all you do is call out when a Jew raises his voice.


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## Votto (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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I guess they want the Zionist regime to go away so that more Islamic immigrants will flee for their lives into Europe.

It seems the happiest Muslims in the Middle East are in Palestine.  None of them ever leave.


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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It is play on "father", vader, and the mufti.  It is an example of how others are joking about this.  Mufti being the father of hitler's, the fuhrer,  plans...............and the renewed anticipation of the up coming movie.

Why do jokes loose so much in explaining them?  It's just more rhetoric and dark humor around this topic.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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We're not talking about what's going on around the globe where all kinds of people are murdering all kinds of other people.  We're talking about a very specific situation but hey - it's an Israeli head of state, he gets a free pass.  Imagine if an American president made statements like that about blacks and the crime rate and threw in some faux historic distortions to scare the public.

You may have missed it but - it's JEWS who are incensed at Netanyahu's remarks.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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I don't give a crap about what Netanyahu said.
His fellow Jews are being viciously picked off 1 by 1 by Arab scum and you keep equating Jews defending themselves to this scum.


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## Votto (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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So let them be incensed.

It's really a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Who the hell cares?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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I equate the killing of innocent people with murder.  Is that a problem for you?


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## Votto (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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In the mind of a Nazi/Islamic fascist, there are no innocent Jews


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Palestinians are not Israeli citizens.  The attackers don't really care if the victim is jewish or arab or even a visitor.  It causes anger, fear and retaliation....making the palestinians victims of the Israeli response and the cycle goes round and round.

Palestinians can do what they want and Israelis have to tiptoe around political correctness?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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You are so worthless.
You have been spouting your bullshit equating proactive violence by Arabs and Jews reactively defending themselves in reaction to the murders since I started here 2 years ago.
You're just a Jew Hating hypocrite and we all recognize that.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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Who said that?

Arab Israeli's are Israeli citizens.  Netanyahu has a responsibility to them as the head of state.  Jews can do what they want and non-Jewish citizens have to suck it up?

Netanyahu's words are also causing anger, fear and retaliation and the victims cover all demographics.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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Thank you for finally being honest enough to state that you support murdering innocent people as long as they aren't Jews.


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Palestinians are told by their leaders they are righteous targets for attacks regardless of religion or age.  "Kill the jews" and instructions are being broadcast on Palestinian media to incite more attacks

............but Israelis are being chastised?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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Thank you for equating a one time attempted killing in self defense to dozens of first degree murders in the span of a month.
Asshole.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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Again, read the news.  This is not a one-time attempted killing and they were not in self defense: When Israelis Kill Innocents for the Crime of Looking Arab - Opinion

Asshole?  Jew hater?  Look at your own bigotry when you start resorting to that.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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Oh, I see - so if they hate, or spread hate, or incite the get a free pass?  The Palestinians are held accountable but not the Israeli's?  Come on Aris - this is a HEAD OF STATE - he is responsible for ALL his citizens, and for insuring the peace and security and well being of all his people - why is he saying crap like that which is designed only to inflame and spread fear and violence????  How is that being responsible?  The excuses I hear are - well, Abbas is doing it...well, the Palestinians teach hate...well, does that make it right?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Me: Did you READ the article?
You: No, I read the headline.

If the Arabs want to stir up a frenzy, they better be able to handle the reaction from the would be "helpless" Jews.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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Me:  I read the article.   Where was the self-defense in attacking people because they looked like Arabs?
_
The worst part is, this isn’t the first case in recent days of an innocent getting killed by misdirected Israeli Jewish vigilante justice — and, if things keep going the way they’ve been going, it probably won’t be the last.


As violence spirals in the region, Israeli Jews are increasingly taking matters into their own hands. Of course, it’s not hard to understand the psychology at work here, where a climate of fear pushes people to extreme, impulsive behavior. But the cost is very high, and the people bearing the brunt of it, aside from the Palestinians, are the “others” of Israeli society: African asylum seekers and Mizrahi (Arab) Jews.


On October 13, in the Haifa suburb of Kiryat Ata, an Israeli Jew who was seeking to avenge the deaths of other Israeli Jews stabbed a young man, believing him to be an Arab. In fact, this man was an Arab — only not the kind that the assailant took him for._​


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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You try to kill my people, you're fucking dead.
I won't sacrifice one college educated Jew for a kindergarten dropout knife wielding piece of slime.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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The psychological effect of living in constant fear.
Why not take a trip to Remallah and we'll see how cool, calm and collected you remain?


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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but Palestinians are not Israeli citizens.  The palestinian attackers don't ask for religious ID before stabbing them.  They don't care who might be in the cars they force off the roads or who they throw molotovs at, same way they don't care who they fire rockets and mortars at, even when they end up killing their own.

The intent is to cause panic and terror, to set nerves on edge and force a response by Israel.  Palestinians are stabbing people while Israelis are saving the lives of Palestinian children in hospitals.  So who it the real villain?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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Nice attempt to distract from the issue.  Yes, living in constant fear does have a psychological impact - both for the Palestinians and for the Israeli's.  So what is the job of a nation's leader?  To inflame those fears?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Muslims murder Muslims and the world freaks when a Jew speaks!


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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The West Bank Jordanians are the aggressors and you damn well know that.
Are you a Jew Hater or just plain stupid as all hell.
No...you're a Liberal!


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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The villains are complex.  There are non-Jewish Israeli's - Arab Israeli's.  And they are getting attacked as well in retaliation.  The Israeli's aren't all angels in this either - and again, look at Netanyahu's statements Aris.  Is that going to calm fears or do anything to help ease the national stress?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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How cute.  I love it when people can't discuss the issues.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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I have an idea...tell me when...
the 1st attack occurred and who did it
the 2nd attack occurred and who did it
the 3rd attack occurred and who did it
the 4th attack occurred and who did it
the 5th attack occurred and who did it

Go all the way to the 10th and you STILL won't get to where a Jew did it.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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Keep it up, when you start devolving into frothing at the mouth with "joooooo haters" - you have nothing coherent to add.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Take the challenge...I just posted.
Tell me when you realize you're an asshole.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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All that to say it's ok if Jews murder and it's ok if the head of state inflames those fears and tensions?  What a hypocrite you are.  Murder is murder and no one should be absolved. Everything should be geared towards calming the fears and improving the security but neither side seems to be doing that and you are applauding it.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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Not until you explain why murder gets a free pass.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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You won't take the challenge because you know you're dead in the water.
Take the challenge and see that it took almost a MONTH and a few DOZENS murders for panic to set in.


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Israelis get mad and vent, but they get criticized over the meaning of every word, while palestinians blatantly say what ever they want and the world does not even blink.

Mufti was convicted for his part after the war but you just pass over that fact. Documents and books have been written on his involvement and suddenly no one is supposed to mention him?
Palestinians can bring up every libel and spread disinformation inciting violence and Israelis have to get preapproval before opening their mouth?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> You try to kill my people, you're fucking dead.
> I won't sacrifice one college educated Jew for a kindergarten dropout knife wielding piece of slime.


What if the knife wielding piece of slime, is your college educated Jew?

What are you gonna do then?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > You try to kill my people, you're fucking dead.
> ...


Take the challenge and eat shit, Jew Hater.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Israelis get mad and vent, but they get criticized over the meaning of every word, while palestinians blatantly say what ever they want and the world does not even blink.
> 
> Mufti was convicted for his part after the war but you just pass over that fact. Documents and books have been written on his involvement and suddenly no one is supposed to mention him?
> Palestinians can bring up every libel and spread disinformation inciting violence and Israelis have to get preapproval before opening their mouth?


You erected over 500 roadblocks and checkpoints on land that isn't yours and that's making the Palestinian's daily life a living hell.

Let's get one thing straight, Israeli's are not the victim.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Take the challenge and eat shit, Jew Hater.


I never back down from a challenge.

And why would I hate Jews?


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Yet the mufti was convicted for his part in the holocaust, so why is Netanyahu off base?  The mufti was paid in gold to carry on the extermination of jews.

Hitlers own speech after the '41 meeting with the mufti call for the elimination of jews and their agreement on the subject.

............but Netanyahu is the liar?


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Israelis have a right to respond to attack.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Everybody gets mad and vents, including the Palistinians.  The Palistinians get criticized every time they spout over the top rhetoric - it's in the news.  Statements about destroying Israel, etc etc - you've posted as much.  But when Israel does the same - everyone defends it.

Yes, the Mufti was convicted but no - I'm not passing over the fact - you are distorting what I'm saying.  NO ONE is arguing that the Mufti was evil - ok?  No one.  But he wasn't Hitler's mentor, he did not give Hitler the idea for the final solution.  He was, in fact, repeatedly rejected by Hitler at first.  Netanyahu is deliberately repeating what is essentially disinformation (and note - historians have repudiated Netanyahu's statements) and conspiracy theory to inflame tensions and you think this is acceptable because it's Israel?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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Hitler had already started killing Jews several years before meeting with the Mufti so yes, he is a liar.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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They have the right to kill innocent civilians?

Do the Palestinians have a right to respond to attack then?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

I thought it was against the rules to talk about Mufti without* Roudy* present?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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You're no longer making sense.

Are you saying you agree with murder?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Israelis have a right to respond to attack.


And when the attack is not a response?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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Here are Netanyahu's words:

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Lie or truth?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


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> > You try to kill my people, you're fucking dead.
> ...



Why bring up fantasy; it would NEVER happen.


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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If Jews go out of their way to Murder ANYONE, the attacked have the right to full force defense.

But you are deflecting my SPECIFIC challenge in the hope that I will post something that will allow you to go off on some irrelevant tangent.


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## jillian (Oct 22, 2015)

Humanity said:


> skye said:
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not only a jew-haters. but a vulgar one.

cool... living up to type.


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## jillian (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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no jew hater... if a terrorist group commits terrorist acts, israel has the right to retaliate

see how that works, jew-hater?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Why bring up fantasy; it would NEVER happen.


So you're the only one who can have fantasy's?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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How is attacking an innocent passerby "defense"?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

Coyote said:


> How is attacking an innocent passerby "defense"?


Be careful, he might feel attacked by questions like that?


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## Indeependent (Oct 22, 2015)

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My last post for the evening.

You are completely full of shit as always.
I challenged you to connect the dots and you deflected over and over.
You are a Jew Hating asshole and have been for at least the last two years.
You are dismissible.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> My last post for the evening.
> 
> You are completely full of shit as always.
> I challenged you to connect the dots and you deflected over and over.
> ...


Can you be anymore condescending?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

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You can't answer a simple question? How is attacking an innocent passerby "defense"?


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Hitler came out the meeting with the mufti and spoke of the agreement to eliminate the jews.  With in moths the formal plan was laid out and implemented.

So hitler lied about the agreement with the mufti in '41?

How was Netanyhu wrong about the mufti's concerns regarding the jews being deported and going to Israel or wanting hitler to burn them?


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## aris2chat (Oct 22, 2015)

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Palestinians were attacking innocents.  There was one mistake where an Israeli officer was trying to protect the suspect and the Israeli attack him.  They did not know it eritrean was innocent.

Palestinians are being told to attack civilians.


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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This is what he said:

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said,

.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"​From the article I quoted earlier in this thread:

But the book says that the mufti “met Hitler in person for the first time” on Nov. 28, 1941 — two months before the Final Solution was formalized and the construction of extermination camps accelerated, according to historians, but after the mass murder of Jews had begun, and roughly one million had perished.

Professor Zimmermann, the Hebrew University historian, said on Israel Radio that Mr. Netanyahu was “doing something he must not do,” and that *in “the protocol” of the 1941 meeting between the mufti and Hitler, “the text that Netanyahu speaks of does not appear.”*

*“He moves the responsibility of the Holocaust, for the destruction of the Jews, to the mufti and the Arab world,” Professor Zimmermann said. “This is a trick intended to stain the Arabs of today because of the Arabs of the past. To pile on the Arabs of the past by easing up on the Germans of the past.”*

Professor Litvak of Tel Aviv University said the speech was* “the height of the distortion of history.”*

“Hitler did not need Husseini to convince him.” he said on Army Radio. *“Hitler spoke of the destruction of the Jews in his famous speech in 1939, in which he prophesied that if war will break out and the Jews started it, the result will be the destruction of the Jewish race. He repeated these declarations.”*​1. Hitler's genocide of the Jews had been rationalized and started well before he met with the Mufti, according to historians quoted - one million had already perished by then and Hitler had spoke about the destruction of the Jewish race in 1939.
2. There is no historic record for the quote Netanyahu claims the Mufti made.

So yes, I would say Netanyahu's statements were lies.  What else would you call them?


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## Coyote (Oct 22, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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There was more than "one mistake" - several Arab looking Jews were attacked because they looked like Arabs.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Why bring up fantasy; it would NEVER happen.


Never happen?

This man is college educated.  A doctor in fact.  He was also a peace activist and the IDF killed him.  He didn't have a knife.  He wasn't stabbing anyone.  He spoke the truth about the IDF protecting about 500 settlers who were terrorizing the Palestinian's in Hebron.






_*Azzeh was the Israeli government’s worst nightmare.*_

_*First, he was Palestinian. Second, he was educated, a medical doctor. Third, he was a leader in his community. Which brings us to his next offense, he was a peace activist.* Finally, and perhaps most aggravating for the Israeli state, he adamantly refused to be forced from his home in Hebron’s Old City – though the IDF and Israeli settlers, who lived in houses perched right above his, never tired of using intimidation and violence to try and push Hashem and his young family from their home.
_​
This is the people you said would never happen...

_"Israeli settlers poisoned his trees, cut off the water supply, fired upon his home, they broke into his house and beat him and his wife, Nisreen, causing her to miscarry her baby on two separate occasions."
_​Read it again...

_"Israeli settlers poisoned his trees, cut off the water supply, fired upon his home, they broke into his house and beat him and his wife, Nisreen, causing her to miscarry her baby on two separate occasions."
_​*Read it again!*

_"Israeli settlers poisoned his trees, cut off the water supply, fired upon his home, they broke into his house and beat him and his wife, Nisreen, causing her to miscarry her baby on two separate occasions."
_​Never happen? 

Fuck you!


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## Humanity (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> ............but Netanyahu is the liar?



Yep, thats right...

And if you don't get why Netanyahu is "off base" then you need to take a break from your zionut thinking and look at what he did!


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


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 No it is trying to apportion blame to those guilty of the crime. Did the fact that 100's of Germans were found guilty of carrying out mass murders minimise what they did. Did the fact that the Turks in their thousands mass murdered the Armenians minimise the crime committed by each one. NO in both cases, and placing the blame were it belongs on the heads of the Palestinians does not minimise what Hitler did, in fact it increases the crime to that of genocide by the Palestinians and their part in the holocaust. That is why you oppose the report because it paints the Palestinians as the heartless mass murdering psychopathic scum they are. It shows that they have carried on the attacks just so they can carry on with the elimination of the Jews that they started in the 1930's.
 Why are you denying the holocaust and the part played by the Palestinians, and deny that they were allies of the Nazis and assisted in the mass murder of "untermensch" in the M.E. and Balkans


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> So again - what is Netanyahu's purpose in deliberately distorting history in this manner and at this particular time?






 He isn't distorting history at all he is making it very clear that the Palestinians have had a hand in the holocaust and are carrying on the mass murder of the "untermensch" for the Nazi's. What next that Hitler did not sanction the mass murders of 12 million innocents, or the experiments  carried out to see what effects certain compounds had on the human body. The evidence says that the mufti was involved in the holocaust and he enlisted muslim troops to fight for the Nazi's during WW2.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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 Also proving that the Nuremberg laws were based on the pact of Omar, sharia and dhimmi laws because the mufti informed hitler and his Generals how the muslim dealt with the Jews and other undesirables


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Well I do not believe there was any planned genocide, but I'm sure he is right, neither men wanted the Jews to settle or stay in their countries, but then again, no one wanted them. They either did not want to assimilate into the culture or they wanted to control the country they were in,
> just like they are now in Palestine. Also its no secret they were very into national communism. the Zionist are into supremacy and capitalism, AKA, world domination using money and intimidation.






 So in your opinion where should the Jews of the world went if no one wanted them in their countries. What should have been done with the oldest Abrahamic religion that all others are just a shallow facsimile of. The only people that really did not want the Jews were those like you who were greedy, lazy, arrogant and jealous. They saw the Jews working hard and being the best in their fields and straight away started the blood libels, some shown above about how the refused to assimilate, wanted to control the country, were communists, supremacists etc. Yet fail to produce any evidence of this apart from that found on Jew hate sites. The vast majority of people in the west welcome the Jews as they do assimilate and mix with non Jews, have no interest in controlling the world, are not communists and do not see themselves as being supremacists.

 You are just a green eyed monster that sees the Jews working longer and harder than you ever would and as a result getting paid more and being promoted more frequently. The Jews I know are were they are because they have proven they are the best persons for that job, not because they know someone at head office. You are an underachiever that thinks the world owes them a living and complains when they have to do that little bit more and demands they Jews be made to do it instead. Then you moan again when the Jews get promoted because they did the little extra and you are still at the bottom. You re just JEALOUS of what others achieve through hard work and think that you should be given the chance to earn more money even though you are not qualified or capable of the job.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Why bring up fantasy; it would NEVER happen.
> ...







 And how did they kill him then ?

 Will you accept a Palestinian version of events that shows you to be a fool and to believe everything that Jew Haters say



Palestinian activist beloved by journalists dies after tear gas inhalation


Alexandra Halaby, spokeswoman for the Palestinian news group International Middle East Media Center (IMEMC), told Middle East Eye that Azzeh began feeling chest pains in his home on Wednesday and needed medical help.

However, since Israeli forces do not allow ambulances into the closed off area near his house, Azzeh made his way to Bab al-Zawiya in order to find transportation to a hospital.

But intense clashes had broke out between local Palestinian youths and Israeli forces in the area, and Azzeh began "suffocating" from tear gas that soldiers had fired at protesters, Halaby told MEE.

He was finally picked up and brought to the hospital, but didn't survive, she added.

The clashes in the area came after two Palestinian teenagers were shot dead in the city on Tuesday evening following an alleged stabbing attack on an Israeli soldier.

An Israeli army spokeswoman told MEE she was familiar with reports of Azzeh's death, but said the military was in no way responsible and that he died of heart failure.


 So he died as a result of Palestinian terrorism and natural causes, he was not a doctor completed a first aid course if you read the Palestinian reports.


 Finally what was he doing in a town that in 1948 was Jewish owned and populated, did he steal the Jews land and property as many Palestinians did after the 1948-49 war that the arab league lost for them.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Humanity said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > ............but Netanyahu is the liar?
> ...







 Are you denying the holocaust and the deaths of 12 million innocents as a result. because to deny that the Mufti had a hand in it is to den all those deaths.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...







 Then why not the full post, or would that not have been the same and you could not imply anything by it. Called cherry picking and one of the last resorts for disinformation taught by the Russians to discredit the west.

You fail again because you don't have the intelligence to know when to back off


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Certainly, any Christian or Muslim living in Palestine would have wanted the Jewish invasion of their land to be stopped in any way possible.  Does anyone believe the Christians and Muslims of Palestine should have welcomed the invasion of the Jews,  which led to the dispossession of their land and eviction?  I don't understand why anyone thinks the Christians and Muslims should not have wished for the elimination of the threat from the European Jews that were planning to eliminate them.







 Why not as they were also invaders themselves, just as you are


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Hillarious...
> 
> 'Copy & Paste Brigade' zionuts who really have little understanding of 1) The OP 2) The topic 3) The grave situation in the ME
> 
> ...







 ON TO *HOLOCAUST DENIAL* NOW


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

montelatici said:


> So, Nutty Yahoo thinks Hitler was not responsible for the Holocaust and that the Palestinians were.  Desperate man.







 No he says that the Nazi's and the Palestinians were equally responsible for the holocaust and the genocide of 12 million innocents


 Are you being a *HOLOCAUST DENIER*


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 If the evidence shows that the mufti was in contact with the Nazi's as far back as 1932 then it shows that he most probably passed ideas to the Nazi's on how to deal with their problems. I saw books that said the same thing 30 + years ago, just because you cant find these books now does not mean they don't exist.

 Will you accept the word of a holocaust survivor then

Dutch Holocaust Survivor - "I Saw How The Mufti Of Jerusalem

 Or the catholic church

Hitler's Mufti: The Dark Legacy of Haj Amin al-Husseini - Crisis Magazine

And not just the mufti but other high ranking Palestinian leaders who went with the mufti to Germany to evade arrest, then fled at wars end to evade arrest for his part in the holocaust


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...







 Like your deliberate lie  DENYING THE HOLOCAUST and those culpable for it


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> And again - why does Netanyahu choose this moment to say the things he said?







 Why do the Palestinians choose the time they make accusations against Israel, because they believe that it is the right time. 2 weeks ago the Palestinian leader called on the muslims to rise up and attack the Jews, to stop any support from loopy liberals Netanyahu has made this statement based on facts. People don't want to be seen as holocaust deniers so will side with the Jews.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > And again - why does Netanyahu choose this moment to say the things he said?
> ...






 Or the call to arms by Abu Mazen that called the Jews filthy


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 Like Abu Mazen did 2 weeks ago when he called the Palestinians to arms with his dirty Jews speech ?  Or have you forgotten about that already


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 But the stoking fear and inflaming tensions from Abu Mazen is somehow acceptable to you. At least Netanyahu is using the truth to show why we should be against the Palestinians.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> ,
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> ...






 The Palestinians are the murderers as the Jews are retaliating to the existential threat of being murders by Palestinians. If Black September announced that African Americans would be killing random white Americans you could bet that the rate of black American deaths would go through the roof. And the lawyers would use the threat as the reason for the deaths and that is why they were all self defence. The same applies to Jerusalem and the deaths of Palestinians are self defence because the threat has been made


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 NO only some Jews who don't want to rock the boat. Most agree with Netanyahu and so do the majority of the world. He is making the holocaust outcome equal on all parties that had a hand in it, so not letting the world forget that the Palestinians are also culpable of the holocaust.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 No you equate the killing of murderers as murder when it is self defence.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 And the arab Israeli's are not the ones attacking Jews in the west bank are they, it is the arab muslim Palestinians doing that. But there are some Israeli muslims that are vocal on the matter of killing Jews and they are the ones causing the problems


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 And how many innocents have been killed then, I bet you can count on one hand. Now compare that to how many Jews have been attacked in the last month and you will get the picture


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 No comment on the war mongering coming from Abu Mazen every month ? Isnt he a head of state responsible for the Palestinians ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 And don't you think that if the Palestinians did not resort to violence and terrorism all the time that this would not have happened ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 Which Abu Mazen does every month, and you stay silent on this. Hypocrisy or double standards, which ?


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
> 
> ...



That was hilarious.

Merkel had to come in and clear the record.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Hitler was talking about a "Final Solution" in Mein Kampf.


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## Penelope (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Well as we are aware there are several versions of Mein Kampf out:

What I read is he originally wanted to ship families out together, as a family unit, and the final solution would be individuals will be sent out, splitting families up just to get them out.

Did you actually read him discussing genocide as a final solution?


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



before WWII, hitler did was willing to expel the jews and after the '41 face ti face with the mufti hitler was ready to draw up plans for the final solution.  It coincides with mufti's visit and was stated by hitler after the meeting.

What is happening today is a carry over of the hate and violence the mufti created.

Netanyahu Wrong About Hitler, Right About Palestinian Mufti

The holocaust was for the two of them a mutual necessity


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## Penelope (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



I am not going to even read that, if Hitler wanted the Jews dead, half a million would not of survived,, and also he could of just set fire to the ghettos, instead he hauled them to work camps , and then to sick camps , also there was no evidence of Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, Chelmno and Auschwitz and Majdanek were forced labor camps. So many lies. 6 million is the biggest lie.

This is not to say, many Jews did not died in WWII, as many lived in Poland, being kicked out of Russia, but planned genocide, no evidence of that at all and it does not add up.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 Is there, then you will be able to produce the evidence to back this up.

From when he was arrested and thrown into prison he wanted to wipe out the Jews who he blamed for the Germans getting beaten in WW1. He wrote this down in the only version of Mein Kamf, and it is now the second highest selling book in islamonazi nations next to the koran.

 Yes in his book that he wrote while in prison


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 What a load of crap you can only kill so many people a day, and you can only dispose of so many bodies a day. Unless you want to infect a whole country/continent with a plague. Setting fire to the ghettos would have created a logistics nightmare and could have spread to the surrounding areas killing millions of allies. So he sent them to camps out of the towns and cities and they were forced to work until they dropped down dead.  Like your LIE as 12 million plus people are supposed to have been murdered by the final solution, not all were Jews you see. There were those who spoke out against the Nazi's, the disabled, the mentally ill, the old, the intellectuals, the foriegners, the Gypsies, homosexuals and a whole host of other untermensch. Then there were the allied POW,s that were mown down rather than capture and inter, usually those of countries already captured.
Read your history books and see how many Jews from Poland survived, and then read the recent reports on the same anti Semitism rising in Poland as was there during the 1940's. The Russians had already had their holocaust only it was called the holidor. when 10 million were starved to death many of them Jews. But because this was carried out by communists the Left around the world hushed it up and swept it under the carpet. So no Jews were left after the pogroms that wiped most of them out.

 All the evidence you could want, you just need an open mind and a need to know the truth.


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## fanger (Oct 23, 2015)

The *Haavara Agreement* (Hebrew: הסכם העברהTranslit.:_heskem haavara_Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.[1][2]
Hitler's support of the Haavara Agreement varied throughout the thirties. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but shortly reversed his opinion, and continued to support it, in the face of opposition, through 1939.[6]

After the invasion of Poland and the onset of World War II in 1939, the practical continuation of the Haavara agreement became impossible. In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine
Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

fanger said:


> The *Haavara Agreement* (Hebrew: הסכם העברהTranslit.:_heskem haavara_Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.[1][2]
> Hitler's support of the Haavara Agreement varied throughout the thirties. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but shortly reversed his opinion, and continued to support it, in the face of opposition, through 1939.[6]
> 
> After the invasion of Poland and the onset of World War II in 1939, the practical continuation of the Haavara agreement became impossible. In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine
> Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




and by the start of '42 the final solution was begun, not just at Chelmno.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Prove it because I can find no historical records of that and historians seem to be refuting your claim.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > So, Nutty Yahoo thinks Hitler was not responsible for the Holocaust and that the Palestinians were.  Desperate man.
> ...



Netanyahu seems to be.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > ,
> ...




That makes no sense.  Murder is murder.  When you killed a person who is not threatening you - it's murder.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Hitler was very clear that he wanted the "destruction of the Jewish race" - most people would consider that threats of genocide, and he certainly acted on it.  Please don't try to white wash him.


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## Challenger (Oct 23, 2015)

...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?


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## Synthaholic (Oct 23, 2015)

Votto said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


*Netanyahu echoed some of the sentiments of historical revisionists and Holocaust deniers who have said Hitler's main intention had been to expel Jews from Germany.*


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 23, 2015)

Ravi said:


> Hitler didn't need convincing to destroy the Jews. Netenyahu needs a good swift kick in the ass.




Is that why you democrats gave Iran the Obamanuke?


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 23, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> I'm a leftist.
> 
> Why would I hate Jews?



Because your allies in Al Qaeda do.

democrats and radical Islamists have a common enemy - America.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



There is no evidence that that came out  of his meeting with the Mufti  *and the quote Netanyahu claims can not be authenticated by historians.*  The Mufti was a minor figure to Hitler, not the architect of his final solution.  Hitler was *already killing Jews before he met the Mufti  - *in 1940 he was slaughtering Jews in Poland.

The claim that he just wanted to expel them is partially true, when his sites were set on Germany only but he had already turned to his final solution before the Mufti.

If the Mufti gave him the idea - where is the evidence - documents of the meeting don't show it.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

fanger said:


> The *Haavara Agreement* (Hebrew: הסכם העברהTranslit.:_heskem haavara_Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.[1][2]
> Hitler's support of the Haavara Agreement varied throughout the thirties. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but shortly reversed his opinion, and continued to support it, in the face of opposition, through 1939.[6]
> 
> After the invasion of Poland and the onset of World War II in 1939, the practical continuation of the Haavara agreement became impossible. In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine
> Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






 Which was all scrapped when the mufti told Hitler he did not want the Jews and he should " BURN THEM "


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 Since Abu Mazen made the threat 2 weeks ago then every Palestinian became a possible murderer. So the threat is there no matter how hard you try and hide it.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...







 You mean the ones that you are prepared to read because they support your POV. I have just linked to a Wiki article on another thread that states that the Mufti was heavily involved with the Nazis as far back as 1932.


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.


They're painting themselves as well.
You must have missed the current "Kill the Jews" fest.


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Challenger said:


> ...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?




They did try.  Mufti was living in Cairo for years before he was deported and went to Beirut.  Camps were protected areas.  While alive, his home was considered under the same protection as a "representative" of the Palestinians, like a de facto embassy.  Jordan also was hunting him.

His offspring continued the connection to violence and hate.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 HOW when he is placing the blame partly on the Palestinians. He is not saying that the Germans did not take part is he, or that Hitler did not order the mass murders. All he is saying is that the mufti had a part in the holocaust and he is reminding the world that he was not tried for his war crimes. Maybe if he had been then none of the problems in Palestine would be in evidence now.


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## montelatici (Oct 23, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a leftist.
> ...




Right-wingers and radical Islamists have a common enemy, secular Syria.  Left wingers despise religious fundies you moron.


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## montelatici (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > ...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?
> ...



His offspring continued resisting the Jewish invasion and dispossession of the Christian and Muslim lands colonized by the Europeans.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



No one is absolving Abbas of stirring the flames, but Netanyahu gets a free pass.

Now every Jew becomes a potential murderer since Netanyahu told them to take up arms.

So where is this going to go?  Who's going to act the part of statesman and calm fears?

Not Bibi.  Not Abu Mazen.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.






 And he is partly correct in this as islam is the mother and father of Nazism, it is the founding of Nazism as shown by the koran, hadiths and sharia laws


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 No they were psychopathic mass murderers that gloried in the rape and murder of Christians. Or don't you know about Arafat and Lebanon.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.
> ...



No, it isn't.  That's just more hate mongering and avoiding responsibility for genocide.  Nazism sprang out of European anti-semitism, eugenics and ideals of racial "superiority" and "purity".


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







And it all started with Abu Mazen calling for the Palestinians to take up arms and kill the Jews, don't forget that when the real fighting starts. Once again the Palestinians are eager for a fight and don't care how many innocents they kill in the process.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 No that was German national socialism which was based on islam and the koran . I advise you to read them and see just how close they are to what the Germans preached in the 1930's


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.
> ...




Actually...I kind of see why, from their perspective:  
they are living under an unending occupation
they have few rights and little say about the conditions in which they live
they have no state or citizenship and are at the complete mercy of the occupying power
they see their children being killed (and whether the percpetion is accurate or not, that is how they are seeing it)
from Netanyahu's own mouth they know they will never gain a state or any kind of equality (makes me wonder how Arab non-Jewish Israeli's feel, hearing his fear-mongering tactics).
They are stuck with corrupt unaccountable leadership (when was the last election?)
They see no path to a future that is liveable.
What have they to lose?  

Where I am sympathetic to the average Israeli's fears now, with these attacks coming out of nowhere, that sympathy is tempered by Netanyahu's words and actions in fanning flames, fear, and hatred in a deliberate manner.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



It doesn't matter where it started.  Netanyahu is the PM of a nation that consists of multiple ethnic and religious groups.  His duty to his citizens is to keep things as calm and secure as he can rather than pitting them against each other.


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## Phoenall (Oct 23, 2015)

Challenger said:


> ...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?







 Because the allies were not prepared to try him for war crimes. Where he was he was protected and he could not of been spirited away. To all intents and purposes the allies were keeping him safe from harm. His home was considered a refugee camp by the UN and so they gave himn round the clock armed protection.


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## Penelope (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Prove it. and not with Jewish writings.  He did not like Jews, no one did and no one wanted them in their country, but there is not a shred of evidence he wanted to kill them all. None and most of the Jew WWII stories are false and made up. Hey lots of money is riding on the fake planned genocide story, but your thread is now about how the muffi was really the cause of Hitler was not. Shows how much Bibi believe in the big hoax, and now blaming it on the Palestinians, what a nightmare. Hey , the Hebrews change their story like the wind. 

Anyway its proof positive like you said, that Bibi wants riots and fighting to justify their own slow genocide.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



No. Actually it was based on Christianity and the Christian faith.

This is not the first time the Christians tried to purge Europe of Jews. They've been at it for a very long time.


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## fanger (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


I wonder why?


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


Prove what?

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

*-Adolf Hitler*, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Not the extermination in the camps of jewish prisoners.  That was not begun till late Dec of '41 and Jan of '42.

The Einsatzgruppen task force in Poland were shooting jews and gypsies but that was not the mass extermination of jews in the prison camps throughout nazi Europe.  It preceded the final solution it was not "the" final solution.

By then then WWII had started and the jews were not allowed to leave.

Did you read any of the sites, books and documents suggested on this thread about the mufti?

Mufti was not just an ornament for the nazis.  He had a driving cause.

Both of them were vicious killers, no one should white wash them.  Mufti carried on even after Hitler was gone.  He fed much of the hate that is so prevalent in the middle east against the jews.  Mufti wanted to carry on the "extermination".  You think his influence was not felt well before and during black September or the civil war in Lebanon?  You think he was not a banner for every war against Israel?  You think he was not widely responsible for the sale of htler's book in the region?

Mufti and hitler were two peas on the pot were the jews were concerned after the beginning of WWII.  They are both guilty of the holocaust.

That legacy is still being carried on


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

fanger said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Christianity is an extremely intolerant religion.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
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> > aris2chat said:
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Bullshit


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Penelope said:
> 
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> > Coyote said:
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hitler used a lot of imagery and justification, including christianity, occultism, paganism, mythology and nationalism.  He was a master manipulator and orator.


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> aris2chat said:
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> > Coyote said:
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Littering is illegal in most places.  Please clean up after yourself.............and try something for the gas.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Sallow said:
> 
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> > Penelope said:
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Were the Crusaders, "master manipulators"?

How about those in the Spanish Inquisition? Master Manipulators, as well?


Martin Luther - "The Jews & Their Lies" | Jewish Virtual Library


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## montelatici (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



You are lying propagandist.  The only ones carrying on the legacy of the Nazis are the Zionists, with their outdoor prison/concentration camps where they periodically perform mass killings of the people they are oppressing.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
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Onward Christian Soldiers!


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Go Christ!


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition!


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> aris2chat said:
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> > Sallow said:
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The inquisition attacks almost any one that did not tow the "approved" line.  Anyone could be brought before the Inquisitors for just about any reason.  They were seeking to extermination all other beliefs, including other types of Christians.

They manipulated confessions and punishments.

Inquisition did not use other mythology to advance their cause, they attacked it, they tried to wipe it out

around a quater of a million people were brought up for judgement.  The plague was also during the same period and contributed to many accusations.  The second plague took out half the population in Europe


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## Penelope (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



I never said he liked the Jews, but prove he planned on mass genocide of them. He wanted rid of them no doubt, as most countries did.


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## Penelope (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Jews thrive on anti jewishism, gives them a excuse for their behavior. I am sick of their sob story. Want to talk about WWII, over 65 mil died, never hear about them, all we hear is about the jews.


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


You are correct.
We need to concentrate on the Muslims and Christians who have proactively murdered hundreds of millions of people in the last 1,000 years in God's name.
We Jews are ametuers in comparison.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



It's outlandish propaganda to say that Muslim, particularly the Palestinians were actively engaged in trying to get rid of the Jews. Quite the opposite. Prior to Israel, Jews and Arabs got along pretty well. The cultures in the middle east are very similar. They share the same dietary constraints and have many of the very same dishes on the Menu. The largest population of Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel is in Iran. And during the Holocaust, Turkey was actively trying to rescue Jews.

Judaism and Islam are much closer in culture and practice than Islam and Christianity or Judaism and Christianity.

And in fact many Christians who support Israel will tell you that eventually Jews will convert.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
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They don't "thrive" on it.

It's the history.


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

ah, yes.........the holocaust never happened so how could the "sainted" mufti have had anything to do with it.

hate feeding hate feeding violence feeding extermination and genocide across decades and around the world

round and round we go

'it's the jews", they are the devils the cause of everything from a flower dying to natural disasters..............the jews, the jews, they do nothing but lie and cause all evil..................

Netanyahu is just letting others know there is a tie from the holocaust to event today and the trail involves the mufti that should not be dismissed.


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## jillian (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Penelope said:
> 
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> > Sallow said:
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I think it's certainly an overstatement. that said, I didn't hear the statements and only know about them as paraphrased by the o/p and other anti-semites. that doesn't mean he didn't say it. and in fact I think it was a silly statement.

but really, encouraging anti-semites like the trash who populate this thread really never appeals to me.

Christians are wrong about conversion.


----------



## fanger (Oct 23, 2015)

YEAR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PLACE

*250 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Carthage
415 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alexandria
554 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Diocese of Clement (France)
561 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Diocese of Uzzes (France)
612 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visigoth Spain
642 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visigoth Empire
855 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Italy
876 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sens
1012 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1182 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1182 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Germany
1276 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Upper Bavaria
1290 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - England
1306 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1322 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France (again)
1348 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Switzerland
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hielbronn (Germany)
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Saxony
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1360 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1370 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Belgium
1380 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Slovakia
1388 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Strasbourg
1394 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Germany
1394 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1420 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lyons
1421 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Austria
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fribourg
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Zurich
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cologne
1432 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Savoy
1438 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1439 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Augsburg
1442 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1444 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1446 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria
1453 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1453 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Breslau
1454 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurzburg
1462 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1483 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1484 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Warsaw
1485 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vincenza (Italy)
1492 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spain
1492 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Italy
1495 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lithuania
1496 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1496 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Portugal
1498 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nuremberg
1498 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Navarre
1510 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenberg
1510 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prussia
1514 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Strasbourg
1515 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Genoa
1519 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Regensburg
1533 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1541 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1542 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague & Bohemia
1550 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Genoa
1551 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria
1555 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pesaro
1557 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague
1559 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Austria
1561 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague
1567 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurzburg
1569 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Papal States
1571 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenburg
1582 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1582 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1593 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenburg, Austria
1597 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cremona, Pavia & Lodi
1614 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Frankfort
1615 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Worms
1619 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Kiev
1648 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ukraine
1648 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Poland
1649 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hamburg
1654 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Little Russia (Beylorus)
1656 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lithuania
1669 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Oran (North Africa)
1669 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vienna
1670 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vienna
1712 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sandomir
1727 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russia
1738 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurtemburg
1740 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Little Russia (Beylorus)
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague, Bohemia
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Slovakia
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Livonia
1745 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Moravia
1753 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Kovad (Lithuania)
1761 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bordeaux
1772 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Deported to the Pale of Settlement (Poland/Russia)
1775 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Warsaw
1789 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alsace
1804 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Villages in Russia
1808 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Villages & Countrysides (Russia)
1815 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - L™beck & Bremen
1815 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Franconia, Swabia & Bavaria
1820 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bremen
1843 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russian Border Austria & Prussia
1862 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Areas in the U.S. under General Grant's Jurisdiction[1]
1866 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Galatz, Romania
1880s - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russia
1891 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Moscow
1919 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria (foreign born Jews)
1938-45 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nazi Controlled Areas
1948 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Arab Countries*
Jews expelled, for no reason?


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

fanger said:


> YEAR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PLACE
> 
> *250 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Carthage
> 415 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alexandria
> ...



Who was doing the expelling in most cases?


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## fanger (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> > YEAR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PLACE
> ...


People who understood the jews?


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## Penelope (Oct 23, 2015)

jillian said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Your an anti semite yourself, so don't know what your talking about. Calling yourself trash is not really a nice thing to do.


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## Sallow (Oct 23, 2015)

fanger said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > fanger said:
> ...



Yep. The Christians "understood" they wouldn't convert.

But they way? When they weren't expelling Jews? They were killing each other.


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## Penelope (Oct 23, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Sure they do, bibi just had to being it up, they bring it up everyday just about . If there is not an anti Jewish attack , they themselves will do one, either defacing cars like in France, or all kinds of stuff over the years. They do it in Israel, the zealots do stuff and  blame it on the Palestinians.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 23, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Because your allies in Al Qaeda do.
> 
> democrats and radical Islamists have a common enemy - America.


I'm sorry, I'm an American.  Which means I embrace American values.  Of which, starting wars of aggression and defending Israeli war crimes, are not one of them.


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## ogibillm (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Netanyahu is just letting others know there is a tie from the holocaust to event today and the trail involves the mufti that should not be dismissed.


what tie is that? the mufti still around?


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

Part of me says, "What the f***. These assholes are saying I'm a bully, I'll be a bully."
It's sad how gullible Jew Haters think non-Jews are; except, of course, for those 8 or 9 of them to be perceptive enough to be spending their productive time here.
It must really suck for Jew Haters knowing that the Golus Jew is gone.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Part of me says, "What the f***. These assholes are saying I'm a bully, I'll be a bully."
> It's sad how gullible Jew Haters think non-Jews are; except, of course, for those 8 or 9 of them to be perceptive enough to be spending their productive time here.
> It must really suck for Jew Haters knowing that the Golus Jew is gone.



It must really suck labeling everyone who disagrees with you a "jew hater".


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## ogibillm (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Part of me says, "What the f***. These assholes are saying I'm a bully, I'll be a bully."
> It's sad how gullible Jew Haters think non-Jews are; except, of course, for those 8 or 9 of them to be perceptive enough to be spending their productive time here.
> It must really suck for Jew Haters knowing that the Golus Jew is gone.


It's sad that you can't separate disapproval of Netanyahu and Israel.from "jew hatred'


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Part of me says, "What the f***. These assholes are saying I'm a bully, I'll be a bully."
> ...



Only those like yourself who constantly equate Jews defending themselves with Arabs committing premeditated murder.
All one needs to do is peruse your trail of postings on this issue.


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

ogibillm said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Part of me says, "What the f***. These assholes are saying I'm a bully, I'll be a bully."
> ...



Excuse me, the ONLY people who are posting anti-Netti messages here are the same posters who constantly accuse all Jew residing in Israel of proactively murdering non-Jews.
Read all of your postings, Jew Hater; unless you're THAT stupid.


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

ogibillm said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Netanyahu is just letting others know there is a tie from the holocaust to event today and the trail involves the mufti that should not be dismissed.
> ...



Through Arafat, Abbas, PLO, MB, hamas and even the other factions calling for the extermination of Israelis

Hamas: An Islamic Nazi Party


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Attacking an innocent civilian because he fits a "profile" is murder, no matter how you rationalize it.  You seem to think that is perfectly acceptable.  Tell that to the dead person's family and explain to them how the murderer was just "defending" himself against someone who wasn't even attacking him.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Who's accusing all Jews residing in Israel of proactively murdering non-Jews?


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Police everywhere follow leads based on profiles.  When they run or act suspiciously upon seeing a policeman, it can be dangerous.

How many times in the last year have people been told not to run from cops and politely answer their question to avoid getting hurt?  It is the same in every country.

Run or resist police and you look suspicious.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



We are not talking about police.  *We're talking about civilians taking vigilante action against other civilians.*  When it comes to police, that's a different matter.


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



You.  You are equating Jews defending themselves with proactive murderers of Jews.
I gave you an assignment to list the murders and who did them and you haven't started yet.
I want you to provide this list for all on this forum too see and to expose you for the Jew Hater you are.
Now stop deflecting compile the list.


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Bathroom tissue (instead of asswipe), perform your assignment and stop deflecting from your beloved Arab murderers of Jews.


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## Indeependent (Oct 23, 2015)

I just realized that's it's a great idea not to fight back when being attacked; just wait until you're dead and a cop shows up.


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## Jroc (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Wrong, the bulk of world violence is happening in muslim countries. Don't make excuses, or belittle that fact CAIR girl


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



..........and four jews were arrest for the crime and there are three others suspect being sought.

Oh wait, there was a terrorist attack at that bus station and everyone was scared and adrenaline was soaring, the place was chaos...............and a Bedouin guard shot him, not a jews

What?  Does that mean an arab muslim shot at another muslim just a few miles south of the WB?

War, terror attack, emergency..................things can be a panic and it is hard to get a clear image of event till after the fact, sometimes days even months.

Anyone recall Durrah?

Sometimes it's not the jews................oh, we have to whisper that so we are not heard


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

>>The roots of Palestinian incitement come from Haj Amin al-Husseini, the former grand mufti of Jerusalem. In his ... [Damascus memoirs], written only in Arabic and not translated into English until 2014, when a book came out called _Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East_, we see that the grand mufti himself describes the protocols of his meetings with Hitler  ... trying to claim responsibility for incitement that took place in North Africa and in the Middle East, even taking responsibility for the Farhud, which was the June 1941 pogrom against Jews in Baghdad.<<



..........but Netanyahu lied??????

.........mufti can speak from his book and Netanyahu can't speak out it?


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...




PS............the IDF soldier stabbed at the bus station was a muslim Bedouin as well


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



*And you completely miss the point* and like others turn it into Jews and Palestinians and who's worse and who's right and all the usual derailments.

You have a situation where Israeli citizens are being attacked, with no provocation and no warning, out of the blue.  People are scared and panicked.  Jews are scared because they are attacked in a place they should be safe and have no way of knowing who their attacker might be in the people around them.  Arab Israeli's and Palestinian residents - who have not engaged in anything wrong - are just as scared only it's of retaliation, either by frightened fellow citizens or nervous authorities.  It's not just Jews who are frightened - everyone is because no one knows what is going to happen next and it has repercussions on everyone - Jew and non-Jew.

Then, what does the PM do?  He urges citizens to go armed - possibly helpful, possibly not - we'll see.  What does he follow it up with?  Statements - containing inflammatory quotes that historians have said are not true or are deliberate distortions.  *This is the same PM who inflammed fears of Arab voting power during his election*.  It's not me saying this - *it's well respected, not fringe, historians of the Holocaust and of Anti-Semitism.*  His statements have only one purpose:  aligning the Palestinians (and along with it, all Arabs) with Hitler and the Holocaust. *What purpose does that serve? *It's only purpose is to further inflame tensions, fan fear, and create unrest - *what responsible leader does this?*

Netanyahu is not above criticism, but instead of discussing the issue - were his comments accurate, where they a responsible thing to say - you leap up to defend it and accuse critics of being jew haters and how unfair it is.

You critisize, rightly, Abbas for fanning the flames, but not Netanyahu? 

No wonder there is no prospect of peace when you have war mongering bigots in position of leadership.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Provide a link then or admit you are lying.   The examples, I gave in the article I quoted were civilians attacked by Jews who thought they were Arabs - they were not attacking anyone - there was no self defense involved.  How on earth do you construe and unprovoked attack as "self defense" ?

You are not my boss.  Take your assignment and stuff it.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> >>The roots of Palestinian incitement come from Haj Amin al-Husseini, the former grand mufti of Jerusalem. In his ... [Damascus memoirs], written only in Arabic and not translated into English until 2014, when a book came out called _Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East_, we see that the grand mufti himself describes the protocols of his meetings with Hitler  ... trying to claim responsibility for incitement that took place in North Africa and in the Middle East, even taking responsibility for the Farhud, which was the June 1941 pogrom against Jews in Baghdad.<<
> 
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The book, by Rubin and Schwanitz is controversial in it's scholarship:

Did Zionism Cause the Holocaust? A New Biography Says Yes.

That al-Husaini was a radical anti-Semite is not the real news in _Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East_. We knew that already. Though al-Husaini was put in power by Britain, he eagerly embraced Nazism and rivaled Hitler in his fanatical anti-Semitism—and frequently proclaimed that the Middle East needed to rid itself of its Jews. Al-Husaini spent the war years in Berlin enjoying the high life: The Nazis put him up in luxurious fashion, with the equivalent of a $12 million a year salary. Hitler, who admired the mufti for his manly ardor and his “Aryan” blue eyes, promised him that extermination would occur in Palestine as soon as Rommel’s tanks broke through the British lines in Egypt and rolled into Zionist territory.

Where Rubin and Schwanitz depart from the known historical record* is in their dubious causal assertion that Hitler’s commitment to al-Husaini to keep Jews out of Palestine was in turn a major motivation for the fuehrer’s decision, sometime in 1941, to exterminate European Jewry*. It’s true, as Rubin and Schwanitz make clear, that the mufti advocated genocide against the Jews even before Hitler did. Like Hitler, he thought of Jews as subhuman and evil parasites. *But the notion that al-Husaini played a key role in Hitler’s settling on the Final Solution is based on one piece of thin hearsay evidence*: comments that the controversial Hungarian Jewish leader Rudolf Kastner attributed to Eichmann’s subordinate Dieter Wisliceny. (Rubin and Schwanitz oddly credit the comments to Eichmann himself.)

As Christopher Browning has argued, Hitler’s opting for genocide can much more plausibly be traced to his exultation over what looked like a _blitzschnell_ conquest of Russia in midsummer 1941. The fuehrer dropped his earlier vague notion of getting rid of millions of Jews by shipping them “beyond the Urals”; in the joy of what he thought was victory, he set about to make his new Eastern empire _Judenfrei_ in the most direct and terrible way imaginable.


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
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>>The Mufti also made numerous pro-Nazi propaganda broadcasts to the Arab world. For example, in a broadcast from Germany on March 1, 1944, he urged Arabs everywhere to commit genocide against the Jews:

Rise as one and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion. This serves your honor. God is with you. (Jeffrey Herf, _Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World_, p213, Yale University Press, 2009)<<

>>
The Mufti was both persistent and indefatigable in his efforts to prevent the Jews from leaving, in whatever form. Legationsrat Wilhelm Melchers said in his evidence taken during the Nuremberg trial, August 6, 1947: "The Mufti was making protests everywhere-in the Office of the [Foreign] Minister, in the antechamber of the Secretary of State, and in other Departments, such as Home Office, Press, Radio, and in the S.S. headquarters. It goes without saying that the [Reich] Foreign Ministry was expecting protest demarches in matters concerning Balkan Jews, just on the part of the Mufti. They were, of course, welcome in certain places....The Mufti was an accomplished foe of the Jews and did not conceal that he would love to see all of them liquidated." His main concern, however, was the liquidation of Palestine Jewry. "The Jewish National Home must disappear and the Jews [there] must get out he once told Melcher, and he "did not care where they would go": _Ils peuvent aller s'ils veulent au diable_" (They are free to go to hell)


As a rule, the Mufti's demarches had an immediate effect. On May 13, 1943, he personally delivered to Von Ribbentrop a letter of protest against the plan to arrange the emigration of 4,000 Jewish children:

It has come to my attention from reliable sources that the English and American Governments asked their representatives in the Balkans (especially in Bulgaria) to intervene with the governments and request that they be given permission to allow Jews to emigrate to Palestine. In connection with this, the British Minister of Colonies, Sir Oliver Stanley, announced in the British Parliament that the discussions for the emigration of 4,000 children escorted by 500 adults from Bulgaria have been ended successfully and he hopes that similar occurrences will be achieved in Rumania and Hungary. The Arabs see in this emigration a great danger to their lives and existence. The Arab peoples put themselves at the disposal of the Axis without any hesitation in the fight against communism and international Jewry. The Jews will take out with them from the Balkans many military secrets and will give them to Allied agents who are waiting their arrival at the port. I re-quest your Excellency to act with all possible effort to avoid this plan of the international Jewry and Anglo-Americans without delay. This service will never be forgotten by the Arab people.
Following this request, Horst Wagner of the _Abteilung_ II of the German Foreign Office forthwith sent a telegram to the German ambassador in Sofia instructing him to draw the attention of the Bulgarian government to the common German-Arabian interest in preventing this rescue action.

Discussing with engineer Endre Steiner at Bratislava the prospects for emigration of a group of Polish Jewish children, S.S. Hauptsturmfuhrer Dieter Wisliceny, Eichmann's deputy for Slovakia and Hungary, insisted that "the destination of [their] possible emigration may under no circumstances be Palestine." To the question as to why such limitation had been imposed, Wisliceny laughingly asked whether Steiner "had not heard of the Grand Mufti whose name was Hussein ... [and who] was in closest contact and collaboration with Eichmann.... In order not to have this action disapproved by the Mufti, Palestine could not be accepted by any German authority as the final destination. Somewhat later, Eichmann himself told Dr. Rudolf Kastner in Budapest: "I am a personal friend of the Grand Mufti. We have promised him that no European Jew would enter Palestine any more. Do you understand now?"

In every case connected with the emigration of Jews from Germany's "vital space," there always was mention of some promises given to, or an agreement concluded with, the Mufti not to permit the exit of any numbers of Jews, large or small. A document submitted at the Eichmann trial by the prosecution established that when the German minister to Bucharest had formally objected to an order by Marshal Antonescu, the Rumanian prime minister, to allow the emigration of 80,000 Rumanian Jews, he did so "in accordance with our agreement with the Mufti." In answer to questions put to him at the Jerusalem trial, Eichmann said on June 27, 1961, that though even before the Mufti's arrival there had been "objections to emigration to Palestine because this might strengthen the country [Palestine] and create in the field of foreign relations a new factor which would one day join the enemies of the Reich," a consistent "policy of the Foreign Ministry ... began after the agreement with the Grand Mufti"; he also spoke of an "agreement between Mufti and [head of the Gestapo] Himmler." (From _The Mufti and the Fuehrer_, Joseph B. Schechtman, p 157-159)

One of the excuses used by Arab partisans is that bad as the Holocaust may have been, why should the Arabs pay the price for a European crime?

But the Grand Mufti, the leader of the Palestinian national movement, was a Nazi war criminal who literally got away with murder. <<



............his legacy of murder and violence still is going on


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
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You still miss the point.


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

...........and the mufti and this generation want the middle east and the world _Judenfrei_


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> ...........and the mufti and this generation want the middle east and the world _Judenfrei_



I'm not convinced of that.  I think if the Palestinian situation were resolved equitably, some tensions would begin to calm down - as it is, it's a constant festering sore.  At the moment - with the problems of Islamic extremism rising - it would be beneficial to all if some of those Arab countries and Israel formed closer ties.


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

>>Kanaan published an article in Haaretz in 1970 in which he reviewed the senior Muslim clergyman's actions in 1942, when the Jewish community in then-British Mandate Palestine was preparing for the possibility of a Nazi invasion. Kanaan said that in 1968, while researching his article, he met with Faiz Bay Idrisi, a senior Arab officer in the Mandate Police, who spoke of *al-Husseini's intention to build a crematorium in the northwest Samarian hills.*



"Even today, as I recall what I heard from police officials and mufti supporters, chills go through my body," Idrisi told Kanaan at the time, recalling how in case of a German invasion "Haj Amin Husseini was gearing to enter Jerusalem at the head of the Muslim Arab Legion squadron he'd created for the Third Reich. The mufti's plan was to build a huge Auschwitz-like crematorium in the Dotan Valley, near Nablus, to which Jews from Palestine, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and North Africa would be imprisoned and exterminated, just like the Jews in the death camps in Europe." <<


>>Wolfgang Schwanitz, who penned the book "Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East." Schwanitz also argues that Hitler's meeting with al-Husseini played a critical role in inspiring the Holocaust.

"It's a historical fact that the grand mufti was an accomplice in this. ... *He was the top non-European adviser to Hitler on the process of eliminating Europe's Jews*," Schwanitz said. "*It would be absurd to discount the mufti's role in encouraging Hitler and other Nazi officials to carry out the final solution*."<<




Sultan Knish: When Muslims Burn Jews Alive


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> >>Kanaan published an article in Haaretz in 1970 in which he reviewed the senior Muslim clergyman's actions in 1942, when the Jewish community in then-British Mandate Palestine was preparing for the possibility of a Nazi invasion. Kanaan said that in 1968, while researching his article, he met with Faiz Bay Idrisi, a senior Arab officer in the Mandate Police, who spoke of *al-Husseini's intention to build a crematorium in the northwest Samarian hills.*
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Schwanitz's scholarship in those claims has been disputed.  No other historians back him.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

*Netanyahu’s fairytale about Hitler and the mufti is the last thing we need *
_
..*.But there is no solid evidence to suggest that he played any role in the decision to exterminate the Jews. For, as Bernard Lewis wrote in Semites and Anti-Semites, it “seems unlikely that the Nazis needed any such additional encouragement from outside”.*


It is equally implausible that Husseini was given a guided tour of the Auschwitz gas chambers in operation.* In fact, his meeting with Hitler, which has been established in both Arab and German records, did not go very well for the mufti*, who sought a statement of support for the Palestinian national rights: a kind of German Balfour declaration for the Arabs. Hitler refused to sign such a document. Foolishly Husseini agreed to have his picture taken with Hitler, which has haunted the Palestinian cause ever since.


The mufti’s support for Nazi Germany demonstrated the evils of extremist nationalism. However, the Arabs were not the only ones who were seeking a deal with the Nazis. At the end of 1940 and again at the end of 1941, before the Holocaust reached its height in the extermination camps, a small Zionist terrorist organisation – Fighters for the Freedom of Israel, also known as the Stern Gang – made contact with Nazi representatives in Beirut, hoping for support for the struggle against the British. One of the Sternists, in a British jail at the time, was Yitzhak Shamir, a future Israeli prime minister.

Netanyahu’s fictitious dialogue between Husseini and Hitler *has come at an extremely delicate moment, with a new wave of Palestinian terror once again raising fear and hatred in both Israel and the Palestinian territories*. Involving the Holocaust once again can only make matters worse. *This should be a moment for responsible leadership and restraining language.* The last thing the present situation needs is a fairytale about Hitler and the mufti._​


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

*7 of the funniest reactions to Netanyahu’s Hitler-mufti theory*


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > >>Kanaan published an article in Haaretz in 1970 in which he reviewed the senior Muslim clergyman's actions in 1942, when the Jewish community in then-British Mandate Palestine was preparing for the possibility of a Nazi invasion. Kanaan said that in 1968, while researching his article, he met with Faiz Bay Idrisi, a senior Arab officer in the Mandate Police, who spoke of *al-Husseini's intention to build a crematorium in the northwest Samarian hills.*
> ...




Kanaan published an article in Haaretz in 1970........
*Faiz Bay Idrisi, a senior Arab officer in the Mandate Police*, who spoke of *al-Husseini’s intention to build a crematorium* in the northwest Samarian hills.



Now your pulling "only my sources are good and all yours are bad"?

I expect that from other posters

Gad, I wish I had my library of books I left in Lebanon.  Many I would have to translate but the documentation and references would be invaluable right now.  Even my old notes and personal papers would have been a major help.

The authors of all those books you are dismissing so casually spent a long time on their research.  You've spend a few hours trying to refute them all today?

You thing a german, a jews and even the mufti's own writings or the witnesses quoted and interviews in all these decades are all fabricating everything?

I wish you understood german and arabic.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

This article has an interesting analysis of Netanyahu's statements: 

The real problem with Netanyahu’s mufti speech | +972 Magazine

_Despite the festival of mockery taking place on social media, Benjamin Netanyahu clearly does not believe that Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini is more responsible than Hitler for the Holocaust. (Although that is exactly what the prime minister said in his speech at the World Zionist Conference on Tuesday.) Netanyahu is a smart guy who knows World War II history better than most of his critics. The idea that the mufti is responsible for the extermination of European Jewry is completely absurd, and Netanyahu knows that. Just like he explained the next day, he wasn’t even talking about the Nazis, and he certainly never meant to absolve them for the Holocaust. The prime minister was trying to make a statement about the Palestinians and that’s the real problem.

Saying that the Palestinians are Nazis — very much like the comparison between Israel and the Nazis — has no place in a fact-based or historically accurate discourse. That should go without saying. The only reason to do so would be to illustrate that it is impossible to negotiate, or even speak with, the other side — that they must be fought to the bloody end. That is the historical historical context and significance of comparing somebody to the Nazis. They are one of the few regimes in all of history whose illegitimacy is absolute — to everyone in the world. Even those who had the most remote ties with the Nazis, even those who tried to make deals with them to save Jews, were later classified as traitors. Because one wages only war against Nazis. Look at every WWII film ever made — there is no such thing as a good Nazi.


The Palestinians, of course, are not Nazis. Their resistance to the establishment of Jewish settlements in Palestine in the first half of the 20th century is similar to the resistance of nearly every indigenous group to European settlers who arrived in their lands. The fact that the Jews felt they had no other choice and were being persecuted, the fact that they believed this was their homeland, that changed nothing for the Palestinians. It may unpleasant, but it’s also not _incomprehensible.​
The article is long - and a good read, it concludes with:

_Benjamin Netanyahu’s “mufti speech” was not delivered in a vacuum. *It comes in the midst of the worst deterioration of relations between Jews and Arabs inside the Green Line since October 2000. And Netanyahu is no observer on the sidelines. He is the prime minister. His exegeses and commentary help shape the world around us.*


There is also another way of looking at things. The situation is very, very bad but it is not irreparable. Violence is taking place here and there, but millions of Jews and Palestinians are going about their lives. Anxious and suspicious, but going about their lives. This is not Syria. It is not a religious war. It’s important to look around every once in a while and remember that. There are no Nazis here.

_
*The conflict is still taking place in a political framework, a framework over which Israel still has control. The vision of living together — in two states, one state or a confederation — has not vanished. The problem is that for Netanyahu there is no such vision. There are only Arabs in droves. There is Islamic State. There are Nazis. And a prime minister’s speech carries weight and has dramatic influence over the world.*​


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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No, I'm not - but I'm pointing out* one only* -  that Shwanitz and Rubin lie outside the mainstream of Holocaust historians and no one else seems to support their conclusion that Hitler had no intentions of exterminating Jews until the Mufti told him to.  The authors may have spent a long time but so have other researchers.  Do any other historians support that conclusion?  I see dispute from people who I imagine know just as much as do Shwanitz and Rubin.  The argument is not that the Mufti didn't desie to do those things or that he wasn't a fervent Nazi - he was.  The argument that is at fault is the claim that the Mufti was the Architect of the Final Solution and was responsible for the Holocaust.


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## montelatici (Oct 23, 2015)

However evil the Mufti was, the European Jews did exactly what the Mufti feared.  The Jews dispossessed his people of their lands and forced a large part of them into a diaspora while subjugating the remainder under Jew rule.  As a leader of the Palestinians, was he wrong to try to prevent the disaster that befell the Palestinians as a result of the Jewish invasion of Palestine?


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

In Defense of Al-Aqsa: The Islamic Movement inside Israel and the Battle for Jerusalem by Craig Larkin, Michael Dumper

This one you have to buy




>>The 1929 Riots
The horrifying massacre of the Jews of Hebron, known as the “1929 Riots,” resembles the most brutal of pogroms against Jewish communities in Europe. It dealt the Hebron community a devastating blow, from which it is still trying to recover and led to the destruction of the Jewish presence on the central mountain area of Judea, which was rendered Judenrein.
The traditional Jewish community in Hebron was far removed from any political confrontation or national conflict. Jews and Arabs had inhabited the town for many generations, at times in peaceful coexistence and as good neighbors. The Jews had done much for the town’s economy and its development, of which the main beneficiaries had been their Arab neighbors. The wave of terror was set in motion by Amin al-Husseini, who, after being appointed by the British to the post of Mufti of Jerusalem in 1921, launched a campaign of systematic incitement against the country’s Jewish population in order to inflate his personal status. (The Nazi tendencies of the Mufti - “founder of the Palestinian National Movement” - were revealed later on, during the Holocaust. In 1941, Husseini visited Berlin, met with Hitler and established a Muslim division in the Nazi SS for the ultimate purpose of annihilating the Jews of Eretz Israel. He is considered one of the most notorious war criminals of the time.) The Mufti exploited Jewish demands for worship rights at the Western Wall as a pretext to incite the country’s Arab population, calling for a jihad against the Jews for ostensibly conspiring to demolish Al-Aqsa Mosque. The Jews of Hebron, having nothing to do with any such matter, could not believe that the malevolence would find its way to city of the Patriarch Abraham. Indeed, on the eve of the riots, a squad of Hagana fighters visited Hebron to offer its assistance but was asked to leave in order not to fan the flames.
The bloodshed in Hebron began after riots erupted in Jerusalem on Friday, August 23, 1929. Inflammatory sermons were delivered in mosques and rioters began to attack Jewish homes and the Slobodka Yeshiva. The devoted yeshiva student Shmuel Rosenholz was stabbed and stoned to death as he labored over his Talmud. The British police did nothing to protect the Jews. Their commander, Major Raymond Cafferata, reprimanded Jewish community leaders who hade come to plead for protection and instructed them to hole up in their homes, which were then turned into death traps.
The next morning, August 24, 1929, on Shabbat, a ghastly massacre ensued. Thousands of Arabs carrying knives, hatchets and pitchforks attacked the Jews’ homes. The bloodthirsty Arab mobs found the Jews to be easy prey. They broke into one home after another, with compassion for no one. The aged Rabbi Yosef Castel was tortured to death and his home was set ablaze. Rabbi Hanoch Hasson, chief rabbi of the Sephardic community and his wife were murdered. Benzion Gershon, a pharmacist at the Hadassah clinic who helped anyone who fell ill, Jew or Arab, without any discrimination, was tortured to death after dozens of rioters raped and murdered his daughter before his very eyes. His wife died in agony, her hands amputated. All members of the Slonim family were butchered except for one-year-old Shlomo, who survived despite his having sustained serious injuries. Rabbi Abraham Orlansky, rabbi of Zikhron Ya’akov, father of Hannah Slonim, was murdered by hammer blows to the head; his wife was also murdered. The principal of Tel Nordau School in Tel Aviv, the author Haim Eliezer Bobnikov and his wife Penina, visiting Hebron with their children on vacation, were tortured to death; their children, an eight-year-old boy and a twelve-year-old girl, hid in an adjacent
cupboard and heard their parents being murdered. Rabbi Zvi Drabkin was stabbed with daggers until his intestines spilled out. Bezalel Lazerowski and his five-year-old daughter, Devora, were butchered. Eliyahu Abushadid and his son Yitzhak were murdered as Yitzhak’s younger brother, nine-year-old Yehuda, witnessed. The marauders raped Liba Segal before the eyes of her husband and son and then murdered them both as she looked on, then amputating her fingers. The baker Noah Immerman was shoved into a sizzling oven and burned to death. R. Moshe Goldschmid’s daughter stepped out of her hiding place and saw a ghastly spectacle: her father suspended, his eyes gouged out, over the flame of his burning primus stove.
The Jews pleaded for mercy, wailing and beseeching at the top of their lungs. The Arab monsters responded by shouting “Allahu akbar” (G-d is great) and “Itbah al Yahud” (Slaughter the Jews), mercilessly tormenting and butchering old people, babies, women and children. The streets echoed with cries of terror and filled with blood and feathers. It must be acknowledged that a small number of Arabs, from among a murderous population of many thousands, did conceal and rescue some Jews.
The Hebron police, composed largely of Arab patrolmen and British commanders, turned a blind eye. Several Arab police even participated in the massacre. Only several hours later did a British officer fire in the air and force the marauders to begin to scatter. The battered and frightened remnants of the community, as well as the brutalized corpses, were taken to the British police post at Beit Romano. The seriously wounded were moved to the healthcare facilities, where they received little aid or medical care and then died in their agony. The next day, fifty-nine fatalities were buried in a mass grave in the town’s old Jewish cemetery; the stunned survivors were not even allowed to give them a proper funeral. Subsequently, eight additional Jews died. The survivors were banished from town, defeated and destitute and the Arab murderers looted and appropriated their homes and property.
The Arab terror wave spread to all parts of the country - Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Motza, Hulda, Safed and other places. In its ghastly course, 133 Jews were murdered, half of them - 67 - in Hebron. The gruesome event totally transformed the nature of Jewish settlement in Eretz Israel. Of all Jewish communities that the rioters had targeted, only the Jewish community in Hebron was not immediately revitalized.
Thus, the brutal terror and atrocities at the hands of a murderous Arab mob, with collaboration from the Mandate government which finished the job off by deporting the survivors, succeeded in obliterating the community of Hebron, the oldest Jewish community in Eretz Israel. The Mufti’s evil plan had come to pass. In addition to Hebron, the Jewish communities of Shechem, Migdal Eder (near today’s Etzion Bloc) and other villages were destroyed in the riots and the central mountain area was emptied of its Jews. This outcome shaped the geographic reality in Eretz Israel in a manner that has lasted to this day. The main Jewish presence in the country is compressed into the greater Tel Aviv - coastal area, whereas the central mountain area - the source of control, security and water - was abandoned.
IV.  The Attempt to Recover from the Devastation
The remnants of the Hebron community were dispersed around Jerusalem in paupers’ shelters, hospitals, schools and relatives’ homes. Those associated with the Sephardic community maintained their community framework. They held conventions and gatherings in which they demanded the right to return to their town. The chief rabbis, Rabbi A.I. Hacohen Kook and the Rishon Lezion, Rabbi Ya’akov Meir, embraced the survivors, bolstered their morale and called for their return to Hebron. Several Zionist leaders, too, including Chaim Weizmann and Haim Arlosorov, favored such an initiative. A group of families led by R. Hayyim Bejano returned to Hebron in 1931. They labored prodigiously to re-establish the community even though they received no material support from official sources. At this time, another storey was built atop Beit Hasson and a beit midrash named for R. Amram b. Divan, a Moroccan Jewish leader, was opened there. In 1936, however, when the Arabs launched their next round of riots, the British again drove the Jews out of Hebron. A solitary Jewish family stayed on - the cheesemaker Yaakov Ezra and his son Yosef. After the 1947 UN partition resolution, they, too, were forced to leave, marking the demise of the ancient Jewish community of Hebron.
The Jewish property remained easy prey for the Arab murderers, who looted the homes and desecrated and destroyed the tombstones that had been erected in the cemetery for the 1929 martyrs.
In the decade preceding Israel’s War of Independence (1948–1949), an attempt was made to correct a small extent of the injustice and establish a Jewish foothold on the mountain crest: four communities – ‘Kefar Etzion’, ‘Massuot Yitzhak’, ‘Ein Tsurim’ and ‘Revadim’ - were founded between Hebron and Jerusalem. The Arabs were unwilling to acquiesce in the existence of even these tiny communities in this strategic area. On the eve of the establishment of the State of Israel, these communities fell after a valorous battle. The defenders of Kefar Etzion were all murdered; the other fighters were taken prisoner. The last Jews to pass through the abandoned City of the Patriarchs were the hundreds of POWs, settlers and defenders of the Etzion Bloc, who were interned at the former British police fortress in Hebron for three weeks or so until they were taken to captivity in Transjordan. Due to their immensely heroic struggle, it was the Etzion Bloc victims who saved Jerusalem from destruction.

After the Kingdom of Transjordan (later Jordan) occupied the area in 1948, it began to level the Jewish sites systematically in order to obliterate every trace of the Hebron Jewish community. The Jewish quarter was razed to the ground. A wholesale “market” was built in its southern section; its central area became a garbage dump, an abattoir and a public latrine. The ancient Avraham Avinu Synagogue was reduced to a mound of refuse and debris and was used as a pen for sheep and goats. The Jewish cemetery was demolished: the plot reserved for the 1929 martyrs was totally obliterated, the tombstones shattered and the area was planted over with trees and vegetables. The Chabad parcel was defiled and destroyed, as were the graves of the rabbis and kabbalists. Beit Hadassah and Beit Romano became Arab schools. A central bus station was erected on the Chabad property south of Beit Romano; the Jewish homes in the northern section, including those of the Hausmanns and the Klonskys, were demolished and replaced with shops. The “kabbalists’ courtyard” became a cowshed; other Jewish homes were seized and became Arab residences, shops and warehouses. Spacious Arab homes were built on some of the Jewish land at Tel Rumeida. The City of the Patriarchs seemed to have met its demise, its offspring uprooted by an evil, malevolent hand.
Although the situation seemed worse than dispiriting, the Jews did not give up their property. They produced and kept lists of properties and owners. After having been driven out of their homes, most of the Jewish refugees from Hebron refused to sell their properties to Arabs, despite their dire economic situation and the seemingly scanty likelihood of restitution. The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Yosef Yitzhak, adamantly refused to sell his holdings - including Beit Romano and the land next to it - and ceaselessly demanded their recovery.<<
Hebron - The Foundation of Jewish History by Noam Arnon



The Grand Mufti’s Nazi connection




>>According to Dr. Yuval Arnon-Ohanna of Ariel University, who headed the Palestinian Desk at the Mossad Research Division, the secretary-general of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, stated in September 1947 that the core problem was not a Palestinian state or Jewish expansionism. The only priority was the duty to uproot the Jewish presence from Palestine, which was defined by Muslims as “Waqf” — an area divinely endowed to Islam and not to the “infidel.”

The elimination of Jews was the top priority of the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, the founder and president of the (Palestinian) Arab Higher Committee and a collaborator with Nazi Germany. In September 1941, he submitted a memo to Adolf Hitler on “the resolution of the Jewish problem in the Middle East in the same manner it is resolved in Europe,” planning the construction of Auschwitz-like crematoriums in the Dothan Valley, adjacent to Nablus in Samaria. In fact, Mahmoud Abbas recently expressed his admiration for al-Husseini as a hero and martyr. Abbas appointed the current grand mufti of Jerusalem, who continues al-Husseini’s anti-Jewish hate education.<<


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> In Defense of Al-Aqsa: The Islamic Movement inside Israel and the Battle for Jerusalem by Craig Larkin, Michael Dumper
> 
> This one you have to buy
> 
> ...



Aris, I don't think we're arguing about the same thing - I don't dispute what the Mufti did, in the above, that he was an evil man or that he was a Nazi collaborator - there is no dispute there.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2015)

Aris - what do you think of the analysis in the article from 972 Magizine?


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## montelatici (Oct 23, 2015)

Cutting and pasting Zionist propaganda seems to be your hobby Aris.  As all neutral historians have noted, the targets were European Jew colonists who intended to and eventually dispossessed the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.  Even the Jewish Virtual Library confirms this fact.  Were the Palestinians wrong in trying to prevent their dispossession by the European Jews?

"Rabbi Slonim, who had tried to shelter the Jews, was approached by the rioters and offered a deal. If all the Ashkenazi yeshiva students were given over to the Arabs, the rioters would spare the lives of the Sephardi community."

The Hebron Massacre of 1929 | Jewish Virtual Library


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## Billo_Really (Oct 23, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> I just realized that's it's a great idea not to fight back when being attacked; just wait until you're dead and a cop shows up.


Why?  The cops will just kill you to.

People like you, should be hated.  People like you, kill people like this...







...in cold blood.

And you're too much of a fuckin' pussy to even comment on it.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 23, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Wrong, the bulk of world violence is happening in muslim countries. Don't make excuses, or belittle that fact CAIR girl


And the bulk of the violence happening in this part of the world, is due to the occupation.


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## Hossfly (Oct 23, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > I just realized that's it's a great idea not to fight back when being attacked; just wait until you're dead and a cop shows up.
> ...




​


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz, "Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East" (Yale UP, 2014)

Much of the material to support this comes from Fritz Grobba (former German envoy to Kabul, Baghdad and Riyadh, and Muslim-Arab affairs officer in the Nazi foreign ministry)


>>Haj Amin had visited Auschwitz extermination camp, drawing upon a sinister document recording the Palestinian Grand Mufti’s 1943 visit to Himmler at the Ukrainian village of Zhitomir (near Kiev), which is geographically close to the Polish town of Oswiencim (Auschwitz). Haj Amin visited the death camp on his way to Zhitomir, and that Treblinka and Majdanek camps<<



>>Who was Haj Amin al-Husseini and what was his historical significance? A relative of Yasser Arafat as well as ally of Hassan al-Banna, originator of Hamas’ parent organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Grand Mufti was a moving force behind Palestinian Jew hatred, from the riots of 1920 and 1929 through the 1936-1939 bloody Arab Uprising against the Holy Land’s Jewish community, long before his WWII support of Nazi Germany.

According to Historian Robert Wistrich’s _Hitler and the Holocaust _(2001), the Mufti escaped British scrutiny in Jerusalem after the war’s outbreak for the more friendly confines of Berlin, where, in November, 1941, he had tea with Hitler who asked him “to lock in the innermost depths of his heart” that he (Hitler) “would carry on the battle to the total destruction of the Judeo-Communist Empire in Europe.” In 1942, Fred Grobba wrote approvingly of the Mufti’s visit with members of the Nazi elite to “the concentration camp Oranienburg . . . . The visit lasted about two hours with very satisfying results . . . . the Jews aroused particular interest among the Arabs. . . . It [the visit] . . . made a very favorable impression on the Arabs.”

In 1943, the Mufti extended his relations with the German Foreign Office and Abwehr directly to the SS Main Office. Gottlob Berger arranged a meeting between al-Husayni and SS chief Heinrich Himmler on July 3, 1943. Al-Husayni sent Himmler birthday greetings on October 6, and expressed the hope that “the coming year would make our cooperation even closer and bring us closer to our common goals.” The Grand Mufti also helped organize a Muslim Waffen SS Battalion, known as the Hanjars, that slaughtered ninety percent of Bosnia’s Jews, and were dispatched to Croatia and Hungary. The Mufti also made broadcasts to the Middle East urging Arabs and Muslims to honor Allah by implementing their own Final Solution. <<




Dana Husseini, the Mufti's granddaughter, thinks it could swing the pendulum in favor of the Palestinians not hurt them


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## Hossfly (Oct 23, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong, the bulk of world violence is happening in muslim countries. Don't make excuses, or belittle that fact CAIR girl
> ...




​


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## montelatici (Oct 23, 2015)

Hoss is ridiculous.


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## Hossfly (Oct 23, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hoss is ridiculous.


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## theliq (Oct 23, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> In Defense of Al-Aqsa: The Islamic Movement inside Israel and the Battle for Jerusalem by Craig Larkin, Michael Dumper
> 
> This one you have to buy
> 
> ...


Rubbish,the Palestinians attacked the Jews(after the Zionists continued to attack Palestinians) moreover they realized that the Illegal Zionists were stealing Palestinian land and were a threat to Palestinians/Palestine which proved to be correct.....and for your information the Jews murdered 100,000's of Palestinian up to and after 1948 and over 78,000 since 1948 .......Aris you are a shallow and corrupt Zionist...........and a complete liar.Shameless is what you are...VIVA PALESTINE..VIVA ISRAEL


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## theliq (Oct 23, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Hoss is ridiculous.


Monte,I like Hoss.......I know he can seem Zionist Brainwashed but he has a good heart.........steve


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## aris2chat (Oct 23, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Aris - what do you think of the analysis in the article from 972 Magizine?




Konrad writes for haaretz

and you think he is unbias?  Same thing just repeated.

did you watch the Al-Jazeera piece?

al-Husseini is perhaps an issue I am too close to and it seems one we will not agree on.  At this point nothing will change my personal or professional opinion of him or his nephew.  All the white wash and ribbons can't separate them or the legacy we have to deal with.  Maybe it's the eyes, the voice or just the horror I've seen in them.  I wish I had the original text of the mufti's book with me.  Right now I could probably sell just the cove page on Ebay, or the satisfaction of watching it burn.
He used his association with Hitler and how he was depended on every chance he got.  He would probably be the one agreeing the loudest with Netanyahu not disagreeing.


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## Jroc (Oct 23, 2015)

Good piece somes it up well. The mufti and Hitler had the same goal extermination, of the Jewish people




> _“_If a man was a Jew, it was good enough for him to be killed or stamped out,” wrote a senior British official serving abroad to his superiors in London in 1929.
> 
> From where was this gentleman—Major Alan Saunders—writing his dispatch? From Munich or Berlin or any of the other German cities where Hitler’s Nazi Party was gaining supporters and street thugs? In fact, no. Major Saunders was the head of the British Police in Palestine during the mandate period, and his statement concerned the massacre by Arabs, in August 1929, of 69 Jews in Hebron, a city where their community had been a consistent presence for at least two millennia.






> The first is that while Hitler unarguably remains the most powerful and devastating anti-Semite to ever hold state power, he was far from the only one at that time to approach the “Jewish question” in exterminationist terms. As Major Saunders related from faraway Palestine, about an episode that presaged the Nazi atrocities that were to follow in Germany and then in occupied Europe and North Africa, the same hatred of Jews simply for being Jews was in painful evidence there. For there were thousands, even millions, of ordinary people in Europe and the Middle East who regarded the Jews as a social and religious poison and wanted them—all of them—dead. In that sense, the Fuhrer was their representative and their master.





> And yet, when they spoke about the war, their anger really flowed when they remembered the locals who had assisted the Germans. Like Netanyahu now, what they found hardest to stomach was the spectacle of those non-Jews who lived alongside them collaborating with the Nazi extermination program.
> 
> In the pantheon of Nazi collaborators, Mufti Hajj Amin al-Husseini is right up there with Pavelic in Croatia, Petain in France, Horthy in Hungary, and all the other quislings—their name comes from the collaborationist leader in Norway, Vidkun Quisling—who implemented Hitler’s will. It was, ironically, the British authorities who appointed him to his position in 1921. During the 1929 massacre in Hebron, as during the openly anti-Semitic 1936-39 Arab revolt in Palestine, al-Husseini proved himself a confirmed Jew-hater and the natural ally of Hitler in the Arab and Muslim worlds.






> It wasn’t until November 1941 that the Mufti met Hitler in person. Significantly, in the view of many historians, that encounter in Berlin took place two months before the Wannsee conference, where leading Nazis led by Hitler’s security chief, Reinhard Heydrich, plotted the implementation of the “Final Solution”—the extermination of the Jews.
> 
> In the official German record of their discussions (not an exact transcript, but a summary of what was said), it was clear that both Hitler and the Mufti were already in agreement that the Holocaust had to be visited upon the Jews. For his part, the Mufti expressed his appreciation of Germany’s commitment to the “elimination of the Jewish national home,” while Hitler restated his “active opposition to the Jewish national home in Palestine, which was nothing other than a center, in the form of a state, for the exercise of destructive influence by Jewish interests.”





> During the 1930s, both Germany and Palestine were the sites of mob violence, boycotts, and discriminatory laws and regulations against Jews. The Nazi consolidation of power in the 1930s was what enabled them to launch their campaign of war and genocide at the end of that decade.
> 
> Had Palestine been conquered by the Germans from the British, there is no doubt that the Mufti would have been installed as the local quisling, and that the entire Jewish population would have been shipped to concentration and death camps in Europe—assuming that the Germans and their Arab militias didn’t build similar camps in the vicinity, of course. That was the mutual vision expressed in Berlin in 1941, the distinctly Arab contribution to the achievement of the “Thousand Year Reich.”
> 
> *As the German historian Matthias Kuentzel has noted, the 700,000 Jews in the Middle East were in Hitler’s sights when he received the Mufti*.



The Mufti and the Holocaust, Revisited


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## montelatici (Oct 23, 2015)

theliq said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Hoss is ridiculous.
> ...



Yeah, he is just unaware.  Not evil like most of the Zionists here.  But I do see him like the piggy in the GIF.


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## theliq (Oct 24, 2015)

montelatici said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Yeah Monte,it's a very funny vid, but I wouldn't use it for Hossie,because I like him too much.....but...any of the others Great.....fuck,it's is a Funny Vid., mind you Monte.......by the way, I trust the family are all well Mont......steve


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## aris2chat (Oct 24, 2015)

A bit of light read for anyone interested



Kenneth W. Stein, “My Problem with Jimmy Carter’s Book,” _Middle East Quarterly_

Joseph S. Spoerl, “What a Muslim Brotherhood State Looks Like,” _New English Review_

Joseph S. Spoerl, “The World View of Hasan al-Banna and the Muslim Brotherhood,” _New English Review,_

Meir Litvak, “The Anti-Semitism of Hamas,” _Palestine-Israel Journal of Politics, Economics, and Culture_ 12:2-3

Bettina Gräf and Jakob Skovgaard Petersen, _Global Mufti: The Phenomenon of Yusuf al-Qaradawi_

Matthias Küntzel, “Das Erbe des Mufti,” _Tribune: Zeitschrift zum Verständnis des Judentums_ 46

Matthias Küntzel, _Jihad and Jew-Hatred: Islamism, Nazism, and the Roots of 9/11_

Andrew Bostom, _The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism_

Andrew Bostom, _The Mufti’s Islamic Jew-Hatred: What the Nazis Learned from the ‘Muslim Pope’_

Jeffrey Herf, _Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World_ (New Haven and London

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2676.htm

http://www.memri.org/clip_transcript/en/2415.htm

http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/2430.htm

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1609.htm

http://www.memri.org/report/en/print3006.htm


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## theliq (Oct 24, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> A bit of light read for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never read Zionist/Nazi Propaganda


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## Challenger (Oct 24, 2015)

With apologies to Coyote, but I just had to share...

Netanyahu: 'Palestinians Killed The Dinosaurs'


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## Challenger (Oct 24, 2015)

theliq said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > A bit of light read for anyone interested
> ...



I should, if you get the chance. A lot of it is pure Zionist wet-dream fantasy, but there are some nuggets worth looking for.


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## Kondor3 (Oct 24, 2015)

Challenger said:


> With apologies to Coyote, but I just had to share...
> 
> Netanyahu: 'Palestinians Killed The Dinosaurs'


A ridiculous premise.

Everybody knows that Neanderthal Man (_as exemplified by their close kindred gene-pool_) - a.k.a. Palestinians - evolved _long_ after dinosaurs went extinct.


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## Challenger (Oct 24, 2015)

Kondor3 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > With apologies to Coyote, but I just had to share...
> ...



Some people just have no sense of humour, that's Zionists for you.


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## Phoenall (Oct 24, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 There is more to Nazism than just wiping out the Jews you know.



*Nazi Ideology*
*Key elements of the Nazi ideology*

National Socialist Program
Racism
Especially anti-Semitism, which eventually culminated in the Holocaust.
The creation of a _Herrenrasse_ (_Master Race_= by the Lebensborn (_Fountain of Life_; A department in the Third Reich)
Anti-Slavism
Belief in the superiority of the White, Germanic, Aryan or Nordic races.

Euthanasia and Eugenics with respect to "Racial Hygiene"
Anti-Marxism, Anti-Communism, Anti-Bolshevism
The rejection of democracy, with as a consequence the ending the existence of political parties, labour unions, and free press.
Führerprinzip (_Leader Principle_) /belief in the leader (Responsibility up the ranks, and authority down the ranks.)
Strong show of local culture.
Social Darwinism
Defense of _Blood and Soil_ (German: _"Blut und Boden"_ - represented by the red and black colors in the Nazi flag)
"Lebensraumpolitik", "Lebensraum im Osten" (The creation of more living space for Germans)
Related to Fascism



 Now compare the tenets of islam


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## Phoenall (Oct 24, 2015)

fanger said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...







 Because they preach that the murdered their God, that is why


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## Phoenall (Oct 24, 2015)

Sallow said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






Is that why he started his own religion based on Aryan myths and legends, and then converted to islam.


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## Coyote (Oct 24, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Aris - what do you think of the analysis in the article from 972 Magizine?
> ...



Thanks for the response Aris, even though we disagree I do respect your opinions.  I like this editorial, it makes sense to me.  I think Netanyahu is making a point and that point is he is going to align all Palestinians (and potentially all Arabs) with the Nazi's.  In doing so, is he accurate?  No,  I don't think so.  What he is doing is creating a very dangerous dichotomy that is certainly not conducive to peace.  He has his agenda and I do think it is a bigoted anti-Arab agenda - his statements prior to his election victory give one pause:  that there will NEVER be two states, and stoking the flames of Jewish fear of Arab Israeli votes.  That is dangerously divisive, as is this speech.


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## Coyote (Oct 24, 2015)

Jroc said:


> Good piece somes it up well. The mufti and Hitler had the same goal extermination, of the Jewish people
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No one is saying they had the same goal - no one is saying the Mufti wasn't a Nazi or an anti-semite.  But that's a far cry from placing him above Hitler as the architect of the final solution.


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## Coyote (Oct 24, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Phoenall, stick to reality.  He never converted to Islam.


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## aris2chat (Oct 24, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




Every group if asked will trace their movement and the Palestinian cause as the mufti, and after mohammed and allah they would likely say hitler.
Mufti prided his ties to hitler and took full advantage of it. 
Every bit of hate and violence goes back to the mufti.  He was the Palestinian cause till he died, followed by Arafat.
Palestinians might be divided in so many other ways but as to the origin of "all this", they will all praise and, even worship, the mufti.

Have you been listening to the outcry?  Burn the jews, exterminate the jews?  They want to finish what hitler was trying to do.   They tried to do just that burn 5 including a little girl.
Who do you thing the crematorium was going to be for?  Muslims don't cremate their dead, they are buried in a shroud.

You can't separate the Palestinian action from the motivation to exterminate the jews on the earth.  We might wish they followed in the footsteps of a Ghandi with non-violence, tolerance and peaceful co-existence.  Didn't work so good for Ghandi in the end.  Now India and Pakistan are in a nuclear stand off, and fuel from Pakistan is now n the market to arabs.

Pretending "the final solution" plays no part in the mess is lying to yourself.  I wish the mufti's and hitler's ghosts had no involvement.  We can all wish a lot of things.  First we have to assess the situation and decide what kind of goal we would like and make a plan and hope we find some half way point that might end the cycle.  Think of how many of the best from around the world have tried and failed.  Palestinians have to accept Israel and the jews before there can be any movement.  As long as they believe that they will exterminate Israel and all trace of the jews from the face of the earth we really can't begin to find common ground.  Why do you think security is so important to Israel, vitally important.  A ceasefire or temporary talking points won't change the long term ambitions for the extermination.

Israel could not and would not destroy all arabs or all muslims , we all know that.  But you can't say the arab/Palestinians have or would ever give up their ambitions.

We have seen by other groups in the area that jews/Israelis are not the only targets of their extermination ambitions, or even other muslims viewed as heretics.

Why do you think Mein Kampf is the second most popular book for them?  That is a book I would like to burn.  I'd love to separate the mufti and hitler, but I couldn't and I can't.  They are too imbedded in this mess.  The organization and training and the rhetoric is modeled on hitler.  It not Buddha or Krishna, it's hitler.
You think Mohammed trained his army in anyway like that, or organized the people and towns like that?


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## Coyote (Oct 24, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



The Mufti was a Nazi - but, he was also an Arab Nationalist, so that at least is understandable in the context of the times.



> Have you been listening to the outcry?  Burn the jews, exterminate the jews?  They want to finish what hitler was trying to do.   They tried to do just that burn 5 including a little girl.



And the Jews burned a Palestinian family, including a toddler boy.  They burned to death an Arab-Israeli youth earlier.



> Who do you thing the crematorium was going to be for?  Muslims don't cremate their dead, they are buried in a shroud.



I don't disagree with the Mufti's Nazi ambitions.



> You can't separate the Palestinian action from the motivation to exterminate the jews on the earth.



Yes.  You can.  Refusing to do so shows an unwillingness to understand the complexities of the situation.  For a long time Palestinian popular opinion polls indicated a strong support for a two-state solution - that means two states, one of which was Jewish.  That is not a motivation to "exterminate the jews on earth".  In fact, I can't find anything indicating the Palestinians want to exerminate all the Jews on earth. Their main focus has always been and still is a Palestinian homeland.



> We might wish they followed in the footsteps of a Ghandi with non-violence, tolerance and peaceful co-existence.  Didn't work so good for Ghandi in the end.  Now India and Pakistan are in a nuclear stand off, and fuel from Pakistan is now n the market to arabs.



And Hindu nationalism is reaking havoc  with a tradition of democratic secularism.  Welcome to the world.



> Pretending "the final solution" plays no part in the mess is lying to yourself.



No, I don't think so.  I think that is a scare tactic designed to further marginalize any effort of the Palestinians to achieve a state.  WW2 is coming on to a century past.



> I wish the mufti's and hitler's ghosts had no involvement.  We can all wish a lot of things.  First we have to assess the situation and decide what kind of goal we would like and make a plan and hope we find some half way point that might end the cycle.  Think of how many of the best from around the world have tried and failed.  Palestinians have to accept Israel and the jews before there can be any movement.  As long as they believe that they will exterminate Israel and all trace of the jews from the face of the earth we really can't begin to find common ground.  Why do you think security is so important to Israel, vitally important.  A ceasefire or temporary talking points won't change the long term ambitions for the extermination.



Yes, I agree - the Palestinians have to accept Israel.  Likewise - Israel has to accept the right of the Palestinians to have a state as well.  Thus far there has been no progress there.



> Israel could not and would not destroy all arabs or all muslims , we all know that.  But you can't say the arab/Palestinians have or would ever give up their ambitions.



Yes, I think I can.  If the Arab world wanted to destroy Israel, it could have.



> We have seen by other groups in the area that jews/Israelis are not the only targets of their extermination ambitions, or even other muslims viewed as heretics.
> 
> Why do you think Mein Kampf is the second most popular book for them?  That is a book I would like to burn.  I'd love to separate the mufti and hitler, but I couldn't and I can't.  They are too imbedded in this mess.  The organization and training and the rhetoric is modeled on hitler.  It not Buddha or Krishna, it's hitler.
> You think Mohammed trained his army in anyway like that, or organized the people and towns like that?


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## aris2chat (Oct 24, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




Three major wars with between five and nations lining against Israel, backed by European and russian weapons in 25 yrs and several smaller one and a continuous stream of attack against the country.

That was the arabs just inviting Israel to the prom?  Arabs thought because they far out numbered and out armed Israel and on all sides it would be an easy victory.


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## pbel (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
> 
> ...


The outright distortion of History is the usual ploy of not only Nut&Yahoo but you can see this hijacking of truth by our-own ZioNazis who post nonsense daily on these boards...

Sure Israel has a lot of Money and Power with her backers worldwide, but money has yet to win a battle with people power.

Read History.


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## fanger (Oct 25, 2015)

Full official record: What the mufti said to Hitler


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Good piece somes it up well. The mufti and Hitler had the same goal extermination, of the Jewish people
> ...







 But he was not paced above Hitler was he, he was placed at Hitlers side as an equal in the holocaust and what happened to ALL the "untermensch"


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...







 How do you know, did he confide in you personally. The rumour after the war was that he had converted shortly before the fall of Germany


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...







 And that is all you have just those two incidents, compared to the thousands of incidents committed by the muslims.

 The koran which is the book of commands for all muslims tells them to KILL THE JEWS. How much more direct could it be.
 I have not found any Palestinian calls for a two state solution unless it also included the right to wipe out the Jews and make it all one islamonazi state. When they talk of two states they mean Palestine and Jordan

 So the fact that the Palestinians declared a state and Israel did nothing to stop them is not progress. The fact that the Palestinians just refuse to take the next step is not Israel's fault. The fault lies with the UN and the west giving them money to bail themselves out all the time.

 They have tried many times and failed, and Israel comes out richer and better able to fight the next time. If Israel wanted they could wipe out the Palestinians or have them running for the hills and take over the whole of the west bank.


 Where do you think Hitler got his ideas from if not from islam. It is basic divide and conquer tactics used by mo'mad all the time. Take Medina where he knew he could not hope to win against all the Jews so he went after them a tribe at a time. This meant he outnumbered them and could easily defeat them if it came to a war. What was it Hitler called his tactics again ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

pbel said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> ...








 How about some examples then and the "real history" posted to show that it has been altered. Must be from a proven historical document that is not islamic


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

Not quite as he held the title according to the muslims until 1948, want proof



Grand Mufti of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mohammad Amin al-Husayni from 1921 to 1937, dismissed by the British,[8] but kept the title in the Arab world until 1948


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



It is more complex than that - invoking Hitler is dishonest.  There are Jews in multiple Arab countries still, though far fewer now.  They haven't been killed, put into concentration camps, etc.  The issue with Israel is one of who does the region belong to, and the unresolved status of Palestinians.


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## fanger (Oct 25, 2015)

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



The OP and other articles linked here were not "islamic", and it quoted quoted well established Holocaust historians, including Israeli historians.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Where do you think Hitler got his ideas from if not from islam. It is basic divide and conquer tactics used by mo'mad all the time. Take Medina where he knew he could not hope to win against all the Jews so he went after them a tribe at a time. This meant he outnumbered them and could easily defeat them if it came to a war. What was it Hitler called his tactics again ?



Those ideas are not uniquely Islamic - they are standard doctrine for warfare.  There is no historical evidence supporting the claim that Hitler got his ideas from Islam.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Yes he was placed above Hitler - he was designated as the architect of the final solution, specifically, it was claimed that before he met the Mufti, Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews.  That is not supported by evidence.  The Mufti wasn't even close to Hitler as an "equal" - he was one of a number of avid Nazi's and collaborators who were minor figures.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Ahhhh "rumor".... like the "rumor" that 9/11 was an Israeli plot?  Let's not deal in conspiracy theory rumors.  How about stuff that is supported by historical records?


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## pbel (Oct 25, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Perhaps I would comply with dozens of History Books, however how would truth ever enter that delusional mind you posses?

You really are a Fruit Loop!


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## Indeependent (Oct 25, 2015)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



Why don't you list some of the history books you read and perhaps a link to them on Amazon or another book store if possible.


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




>>
At various times, Jews in Muslim lands lived in relative peace and thrived culturally and economically. The position of the Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death.

When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results. On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in “an offensive manner.” The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by the Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830; and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran’s prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).

The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.

As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:

It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.24

The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: “Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world.”25

More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940’s in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen.26 This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.<<


Norman Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands
G.E. Von Grunebaum, “Eastern Jewry Under Islam
24New York Times, February 19, 1947
Norman Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands in Modern Timesz
Vamberto Morais, A Short History of Anti-Semitism
Maurice Roumani, The Case of the Jews from Arab Countries: A Neglected Issue


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

fanger said:


> Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







 Invented to show up holocaust deniers and anti semites who always resort to Hitler and the holocaust when they are being defeated.


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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Historical record or arab historical record?


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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I used articles that quoted historians who specialized in Holocaust and anti-semitism research - most were Israeli I believe.  None were Arabs.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 So because Benny Morris writes a book it is accurate is it, even when first hand accounts say he is lying. The tone of the post shows that the poster is not able to act in an unbiased manner and will resort to any lengths to demonise the Jews. Which is why I asked him to provide the evidence.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > Where do you think Hitler got his ideas from if not from islam. It is basic divide and conquer tactics used by mo'mad all the time. Take Medina where he knew he could not hope to win against all the Jews so he went after them a tribe at a time. This meant he outnumbered them and could easily defeat them if it came to a war. What was it Hitler called his tactics again ?
> ...






 Apart from the beliefs of people who where there and knew Hitler and his generals. They said it was probable and who are we to say they don't know what they are talking about. Because you don't want to believe that the Palestinians were involved in the holocaust does not mean they weren't.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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And they were treated the same in Christian lands...I don't think that history is a good argument for claiming that modern Palestinians are like Hitler or want to kill all Jews in the world.  Until recently the vast majority SUPPORTED a two-state solution with both sides co-existing.  What changed that support?  The realization that, with increased settlement expansions, that Israel the current Israeli PM had no intent of making that a reality ever.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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VERY few here are unable to act in an unbiased manner...and will resort to any length's to demonize either Jews or Palestinians.  IP is not an arena conducive to rational discourse over passion...just saying...


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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Please, show me an unbiased historical record supporting this claim.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 No he was placed on an equal footing as an architect of the mass murder of the "untermensch". He spen many years in Germany with a price over his head, yet at wars end he was not arrested and thrown into prison. Do you think he had a story to tell that painted the allies blacker than black ?. Why place him inside a UN refugee camp for one person and place armed guards all the way round. There is a lot from WW2 that we don't know about as it is still highly secret and will never be divulged. He visited the worst camps and enlisted muslims to fight for Hitler so hardly a minor figure, he was on a par with Mussolini


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 Exactly ! ! ! ! !


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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They steal the jewish god and jewish stories and then hate the jews.
We all know the jews had it hard in most of Europe.  In a few areas they thrived.  In Prussia they were invited to settle in relative peace.
Jewish life in the middle east, muslim world, was problematic and subject to the local rulers and events.
There were famous jews honored in both worlds, but the vast majority lived with a suitcase at the door.


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## fanger (Oct 25, 2015)

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Rabbi Abraham ibn Daud describes Joseph in highly laudatory terms, saying that he lacked none of his father's good qualities, except that he was not quite as humble, having been brought up in luxury.[8]

The 1906 edition of the _Jewish Encyclopedia_ states that "Arabic chroniclers relate that he believed neither in the faith of his fathers nor in any other faith. It may also be doubted that he openly declared the principles of Islam to be absurd.[9] Arabic poets also praised his liberality.[10]

The _Jewish Encyclopedia_ also reports that Joseph "controlled" the King and "surrounded him with spies."."[11]

He was also accused of several acts of violence, which drew upon him the hatred of the Berbers, who were the ruling majority at Granada.
1066 Granada massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And there you have it, another upperty Jew


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## fanger (Oct 25, 2015)

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If you are going to copy/paste, at least post the link otherwise you might be accused of plagiarism
Myths & Facts: Treatment of Jews in the Arab World (Chapter 11) | Jewish Virtual Library


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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You mean he did not grovel on the floor before all muslims for his very breath every moment of everyday?  Don't like one person so you wipe out a whole community, or two or more?
What weapons did the jews have except their minds?  What army?  What fortifications?  Muslims had horses and jews had to walk beside a donkey in the gutter


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## fanger (Oct 25, 2015)

He was also accused of several acts of violence, and thought he was above the law


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## fanger (Oct 25, 2015)

“Do not consider it a breach of faith to kill them, the breach of faith would be to let them carry on. They have violated our covenant with them, so how can you be held guilty against the violators? How can they have any pact when we are obscure and they are prominent?” — Abu Ishaq, poem, 1066
December 30: The Granada Massacre


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 No not islamonazi propaganda that had no basis in reality, but overheard conversations. Objects found that were not "normal", a copy of the koran in German, a small mat that looked out of place and  that sort of thing. They were written down and then the books went out of favour as other more ludicrous theories were bandied around


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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They don't steal anything.  All religions are built upon older faiths, and borrow myths and stories from each other.

The conflict is not simply a one-sided Angelic and Blameless Israel vs the Evil and Demonic Muslims.

Jewish life in Europe was also very problematic and subject to local rulers, pograms etc.  Relatively speaking - they flourished under the Ottoman's, compared to surrounding regions - and it's a pity that those who so hate Muslims can't at least recognize that: History of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.  Was it perfect?  No.  They were always subject to the whims of autocratic rulers. But they did better than many other areas, particularly Christian Europe, even Prussia: Prussia Virtual Jewish History Tour | Jewish Virtual Library


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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Provide a historical source then.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 Simples if the accounts match the general history books contain then they must be true. If the facts stand up then you will have won, if they fall down because they are unsupported then you have lost.

 But going by the tone of your post you know you have lost already


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 If that was the case then why did they elect two different groups that had it as their basic manifesto that they would fight to the last Palestinian before giving up one inch of Palestinian land. That was from north to south from the river to the sea, and was the Palestinians mantra since 1988.  What you are spouting is islamonazi propaganda that has no roots in the truth. Again how can Israel actually stop the Palestinians from declaring a state and their intentions to negotiate peace and mutual borders with their neighbours, at the most all they can do is refuse to meet the Palestinian representatives and be left with egg on their face.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

fanger said:


> He was also accused of several acts of violence, and thought he was above the law







 Who?    the Mufti..............


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

History is interesting, particularly in these extremely fractured times where religious intolerance and a willingness to believe in conspiracy theories or poorly documented "history" seems to abound (like Hitler converting to Islam, or the Mufti being Hitler's mentor).  This article is a bit surprising, and describes a fascinating history - worth the read.


*So, what did the Muslims do for the Jews?*


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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Look at Palestinian public opinion polls.



> What you are spouting is islamonazi propaganda that has no roots in the truth. Again how can Israel actually stop the Palestinians from declaring a state and their intentions to negotiate peace and mutual borders with their neighbours, at the most all they can do is refuse to meet the Palestinian representatives and be left with egg on their face.



Everytime someone points out where you're wrong you claim it's "islamonazi propoganda" (you have yet to show a historical source showing Hitler converted to Islam or that Islam informed Hitlers policies).

Israel can easily prevent the Palestinians from having a state by maintaining a permanent state of invasive occupation.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 I cant other than my recollections of what I read 40 to 50 years ago, now the books are out of print and as rare as hens teeth. In fact even rarer than a Jewish Deli in Mecca serving hot pulled pork to the faithful.

 But try this



Islam Watch - "Why Muslims Love Hitler, Not Mozart" by Fjordman


 As one Muslim living in Germany  said, “Jews are the enemy of Allah.”  Referring to Adolf Hitler he stated: “The man was a hero, almost a Muslim. I'm one of his fans.”

In 2005, Hitler’s autobiography _Mein Kampf _was among the top  bestsellers in Turkey, behind a book about a Turkish national hero detonating a nuclear bomb in Washington D.C. Adolf Hitler remains widely popular in many other Islamic countries, too. At the same time, Turkish PM Erdogan stressed that Islamophobia must be treated as “a crime against humanity.” It is banned by law to discuss the Armenian genocide in Turkey, a genocide that allegedly inspired the Nazis in their Holocaust against Jews. Would a country the size of Germany, with a history of a thousand years of continuous warfare against its neighbors and where Adolf Hitler is a bestselling author, be hailed as a moderate, Christian country?


FrontPage Magazine - Tolkien, Hitler, and Nordic Heroism

While *Adolf Hitler* was careful at first to conceal his *neo-pagan agenda**,* his followers were not: Heinrich Himmler created the SS explicitly as a pagan parody of the Society of Jesus, conducted extensive research attempting to rehabilitate medieval witchcraft, and held torchlit liturgies to Odin and other Norse gods. Hitler’s ideologist, Alfred Rosenberg, issued tracts denouncing the Gospels. Josef Goebbels aspired to wipe out "after the last Jew, the last priest." Hitler’s ally, General Erich Ludendorff, called for the abolition of Christianity in Germany. By 1936, Hitler was suppressing Catholic trade unions, movements and schools, and forming amongst Protestants a militaristic "German Christian" church that would sanction the regime’s savage anti-Semitism. Hitler opined to Albert Speer that he wished Germany had been converted to Islam instead of Christianity, the better to suit it to ruthless warfare.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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How convenient....



> But try this
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Islamwatch? FrontPage?  How about a non-biased source?

" Hitler opined to Albert Speer that he wished Germany had been converted to Islam instead of Christianity, the better to suit it to ruthless warfare"  - that's historically verified, but what is this supposed to support?


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> History is interesting, particularly in these extremely fractured times where religious intolerance and a willingness to believe in conspiracy theories or poorly documented "history" seems to abound (like Hitler converting to Islam, or the Mufti being Hitler's mentor).  This article is a bit surprising, and describes a fascinating history - worth the read.
> 
> 
> *So, what did the Muslims do for the Jews?*







 ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IF YOU READ THE WORKS OF JEWS UNDER THE MUSLIM JACKBOOT


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > History is interesting, particularly in these extremely fractured times where religious intolerance and a willingness to believe in conspiracy theories or poorly documented "history" seems to abound (like Hitler converting to Islam, or the Mufti being Hitler's mentor).  This article is a bit surprising, and describes a fascinating history - worth the read.
> ...



You can't bring yourself to even read it can you?  It's fascinating.  And it's not an Islamonazi source.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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 And who publishes the polls ?

 As you have been told the books went out of fashion, and so cant be found

 How will that prevent the Palestinians from declaring state, all it will mean is they will have to operate under occupation. They will have to generate their own income and set taxes on everyone, Then inform Israel that they will set the laws in future and will, police the areas they are in control of and arrest any criminals. Once they show they are capable of doing this and they keep the peace then Israel will be asked to vacate the west bank by the UN.
 But of course the Palestinians wont do this as it will cost them a lot of money in aid and they wont have an excuse to attack Israeli children anymore.


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## Phoenall (Oct 25, 2015)

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   Who wrote and for who


Coyote said:


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 Did you as I see this

 A long series of enactments deprived Jewish people of their rights as citizens, prevented them from fulfilling their religious obligations, and excluded them from the society of their fellows.

 Political change was partnered by change in the legal status of the Jewish population: although it is not always clear what happened during the Muslim conquests, one thing is certain. The result of the conquests was, by and large, to make the Jews second-class citizens.


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## CMike (Oct 25, 2015)

Netanyahu was spot on...as usual.

His point is this isn't about land. The arab leadership wanted to kill all the Jews before Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza, and even before Israel became a state.

Adelson-linked think tank article preceded Netanyahu’s Hitler-Mufti claim - Israel News

_Adelson-linked Think Tank Article Preceded Netanyahu’s Hitler-Mufti Claim
New Hampshire philosophy professor wrote in March that in his 1941 meeting with the Nazi leader, the Mufti insisted on the Final Solution.


_

_

At press time, Spoerl could not be reached for comment and the Prime Minister’s Office did not return queries on whether the article was read by Netanyahu or served as a historical source for his speech.

Spoerl traces the Mufti’s call to murder Jews to the 1920’s and 30’s, saying that his genocidal ideology developed separately from that of the Nazis. He describes al-Husseini as having single-handedly compelled Hitler in 1941 to stop the emigration of Jews to Palestine and elsewhere. Moving on the Berlin meeting between the two, he writes “Immediately after his meeting with al-Husseini, Hitler ordered Heydrich to organize a conference within ten days to prepare 'the final solution of the Jewish question.' This was to be the infamous Wannsee Conference, which was postponed to January 1942 because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Germany’s subsequent declaration of war on the United States.” 


...
“The widespread adoption of Hajj Amin al-Husseini’s anti-Semitic rhetoric by Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim leaders shows another kind of complicity in the Holocaust. When Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood leaders say that Hitler gave the Jews the punishment they deserved, they are vicariously participating in and endorsing the Holocaust.” These Palestinians, he writes, are Hitler’s “soul-mates”._


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## CMike (Oct 25, 2015)

Netanyahu was spot on.

Important too.

Netanyahu: Arab Leader Made Pact with Hitler Against Jews

_Netanyahu later clarified that his greater point was to say that, far before the concept of an Arab-Muslim Palestinian ever existed or before the modern state of Israel was declared, Islamic leaders in the land still sought to eliminate the Jews.

“My intention was not to absolve Hitler of his responsibility,” he later explained. “But rather to show that the forefathers of the Palestinian nation, without a country and without the so-called occupation, without land and without settlements, even then aspired to systematic incitement to exterminate the Jews.”

“Hitler was responsible for the Final Solution to exterminate six million Jews; he made the decision,” a statement from the Israeli Prime Minister’s office added. “It is equally absurd to ignore the role played by the mufti, Haj Amin al -Husseini, a war criminal, for encouraging and urging Hitler.”

The Israeli Prime Minister is speaking of the same Mufti who once said, broadcasting in Arabic from Berlin, “Kill the Jews wherever you find them – this is Allah’s will.”

Whether or not the Mufti actually convinced Hitler to go forward with his plans is a fair topic for debate.

However, the Mufti did support and encourage Hitler in his quest for worldwide Jewish extermination, as proven through historical transcripts provided by the U.S. Holocaust Museum.

In November 1941, the two leaders met in Berlin to discuss the future of the Jewish people living in British Mandate Palestine. Hitler told Husseini that the “struggle against a Jewish homeland in Palestine” would be part of his larger efforts against the Jews. Hitler assured him that when the German army advanced on the Middle East, he would announce to the Arab world that “the hour of liberation is at hand.” Their only goal, Hitler said, “would be the annihilation of Jewry living in Arab space under the protection of British power.”

Moreover, according to the prosecution team during the Nuremberg trials, the Mufti did indeed play a role in facilitating the annihilation of European Jews.

“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry for the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan… According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews,” an SS officer admitted during the trials.
_
*The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a man who is revered by some as the founding father of the Palestinian movement, was undoubtedly a supporter of the extermination of Jews, an uncomfortable fact that the international pro-Palestinian Left has not addressed in its criticism of Netanyahu.*


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## CMike (Oct 25, 2015)

More


The protocols of the Hitler -Mufti pact were presented as evidence against the Mufti in the Nuremberg war crimes trials, explicitly state that Hitler would exterminate the Jews in Europe, while the Mufti would enlist Nazi aid to exterminate Jews in Palestine, so as to establish a “JudenRein” state of Palestine.

To that end, the Mufti ensconced himself in Hitler’s bunker, from where he recruited an Islamic unit of the Waffen SS, which actively engaged in the mass murder of Jews, while issuing Arabic language appeals on Nazi radio which incited Moslems to join the Nazi cause and to prepare for mass murder of Jews in Palestine.

The Protocols of the Nuremberg conviction of the Mufti were published in the 1946 book, MUFTI OF JERUSALEM, authored by Journalist Maurice Pearlman, who was appointed in 1948 as the first director of the Israel Government Press Office.

Pearlman cited affidavits of senior SS prosecution witnesses who testified that the Mufti, working directly under Eichmann and Himmler, identified the Mufti’s instrumental role in making sure that millions of Jews were murdered, and not ransomed.

No one denies the Mufti’s Arabic language radio broadcasts, his recruitment of the Islamic SS unit, and his active involvement in SS round ups of Jews in Yugosolvia.

And there is no doubt that Mufti was aware of the Final Solution, fully supported it, and sought to extend it to the Arab world

The affidavit of one of Eichmann’s subordinates, SS Hampsturmfuerer Dieter Wisliceny, who appeared as a witness for the Nuremberg prosecution, speaks for itself:

“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry for the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan…According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews, the importance of which must not be disregarded, He had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with who had been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem. In his messages broadcast from Berlin, he surpassed us in anti-Jewish attacks. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures…”

In 1961, when Eichmann was brought to justice in Jerusalem, Israel’s then foreign minister,, Golda Meir, called for the Mossad to apprehend the Mufti and to sit him alongside Eichmann on trial in Jerusalem

Maurice Pearlman traces the Mufti’s escape to Cairo, where Pearlman reported how the Mufti influenced the newly formed Arab League to spawn the charter of the Arab League, with an explicit statement that its purpose was to wipe out any Zionist entity that would soon come about.

_Indeed, the Mufti inspired charter of the Arab League would soon form the basis of the Arab league declaration of war to destroy the nascent state of Israel in 1948.

The refusal of the UK to arrest the Mufti in Cairo, described by Pearlman, caused the head of the Zionist revisionists in the United States at the time, Ben Zion Netanyahu, father of Israel’s current Prime Minister, to launch an unsuccessful campaign to push the US to demand the arrest of the Mufti in Cairo.

A little known fact concerns the Mufti’s special relationship with a young relative in Cairo, who to the Mufti would affectionately give the name “Yassir Arafat”. In December 1996, Haaretz interviewed Yassir Arafat’s younger brother and sister, who said that the Mufti performed the role of a surrogate father figure and mentor to the young Arafat.

The failure of the Arab League, in 1948, to mobilize the Arabs of Palestine into an active war against the newly formed Jewish state led the Mufti to urge the Arab League, in 1964, to launch the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization, whose stated covenant of purpose was almost identical in language to the charter of the Arab League: to exterminate new state of Israel. Yet the focus of the PLO was to organize Arabs who remained in Israel along with the Arab refugees who languished in UNRWA refugee camps to organize an effective grass roots effort to liberate Palestine, all of Palestine, from Jewish rule._
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/legacy-of-the-mufti-and-hitler-the-facts-that-are-known/


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## Book of Jeremiah (Oct 25, 2015)

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Absolutely it is not a simple conflict because behind all of this there is the history of the Vatican and their Jesuits that have been manipulating the Arabs, even started the trouble of distrust between Arab and Jew back in the time of Augustine(before the occultist / Catholic Ignatius Loyola founded the Jesuits and the Illuminati)!   The Vatican has used the Muslims for many centuries to fight their wars against the Jews and Protestants because the reality is they want Jerusalem for themselves.  Not for the Muslims.  For their own religion of Catholicism and to move their headquarters (Vatican) to Jerusalem.  That has been the plan all along, Coyote.  It is a sad fact that most Muslims do not realize what has been going on.  One day we will learn the truth of just how great the deception was against the Arabs and how diabolical.  Truly what has happened is despicable and tragic.  The Arabs have been used as political pawns.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Oct 25, 2015)

CMike said:


> More
> 
> 
> The protocols of the Hitler -Mufti pact were presented as evidence against the Mufti in the Nuremberg war crimes trials, explicitly state that Hitler would exterminate the Jews in Europe, while the Mufti would enlist Nazi aid to exterminate Jews in Palestine, so as to establish a “JudenRein” state of Palestine.
> ...



While this is all true, Mike, keep in mind that Hitler was a faithful Roman Catholic doing the bidding of the Vatican and the Pope and this is not the first time the Vatican has used the Muslims in this way - even rewarding them - secretly meeting with them and indoctrinating them with every kind of deception and scheme in order to keep those flames of hatred going!  What the Grand Mufti had in mind was carefully crafted behind the scenes all along by the Roman Catholic Empire.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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Multiple groups - if they are done well, they provide a more accurate look at public opinion amongst Palestinians or any other group of people.  



> As you have been told the books went out of fashion, and so cant be found



Historical data doesn't "go out of fashion" - if there is evidence supporting it, it would be out there.  Surely you can find it.



> How will that prevent the Palestinians from declaring state, all it will mean is they will have to operate under occupation. They will have to generate their own income and set taxes on everyone, Then inform Israel that they will set the laws in future and will, police the areas they are in control of and arrest any criminals. Once they show they are capable of doing this and they keep the peace then Israel will be asked to vacate the west bank by the UN.



I doubt Israel will vacate the West Bank.  Israel's actions have not been helpful in any of this and frankly it's not up to Israel to determine whether or not  they should have the state.  After all, the UN gave it to Israel.  They should set down representatives from both sides, tell them no more diddlying around - settle it.  Set 1967 "borders" for a starting point, negotiate landswaps.  Palestinians will have to forget about "right of return" and Israeli's will have to forget about settlements other than what they negotiate in swaps.  Until then there won't be peace because neither side is willing to give up enough to want it enough.



> But of course the Palestinians wont do this as it will cost them a lot of money in aid and they wont have an excuse to attack Israeli children anymore.



And neither will the Israeli's.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

CMike said:


> Netanyahu was spot on.
> 
> Important too.
> 
> ...



Netanyahu's claim was that the Mufti gave Hitler the idea for the Final Solution, using a quote that *can not be verified*.  Netanyahu minimized Hitlers culpability in order to demonize the Palestinians by saying Hitler only sought to expel the Jews when he met the Mufti.  He was already exterminating Jews.  This attempt to reorganize history is little different from that of Holocaust Deniers, with a different but equally sinister motive.


Did Zionism Cause the Holocaust? A New Biography Says Yes.:  
_Where Rubin and Schwanitz depart from the known historical record* is in their dubious causal assertion that Hitler’s commitment to al-Husaini to keep Jews out of Palestine was in turn a major motivation for the fuehrer’s decision, sometime in 1941, to exterminate European Jewry*. It’s true, as Rubin and Schwanitz make clear, that the mufti advocated genocide against the Jews even before Hitler did. Like Hitler, he thought of Jews as subhuman and evil parasites. *But the notion that al-Husaini played a key role in Hitler’s settling on the Final Solution is based on one piece of thin hearsay evidence*: comments that the controversial Hungarian Jewish leader Rudolf Kastner attributed to Eichmann’s subordinate Dieter Wisliceny. (Rubin and Schwanitz oddly credit the comments to Eichmann himself.)_​
The argument is not whether or not the Mufti was a Nazi, and sought to exterminate Jews in Palestine, that's well supported - the argument is the false attribution of his role in Hitler's plans and *WHY did Netanyahu make such inflammatory and divisive statements at this time when things are very tense?*

http://theconversation.com/netanyah...rtant-to-get-the-historical-facts-right-49617

_*Why has Netanyahu arrived at this interpretation?*


*It is not the first time Netanyahu tried to suggest that the Arab leader was somehow behind the idea of the physical extermination of the European Jews. He did so before, in 2012.* There have been some scholarly attempts exploring the role of al-Husseiny that Netanyahu might feel support his claim, among them most recently by Middle East scholars Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz in their book Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East.

Netanyahu’s comments are not so much a trivialisation of the Holocaust or even a denial,* but a deliberate and dangerous distortion of historical facts.* Netanyahu no doubt feels that by accusing a prominent Palestinian leader during the Nazi period of being somehow behind the Holocaust, perhaps even being the inspiration for it, *he can successfully discredit today’s Palestinian leadership and their concerns and worries.*


By claiming that there exists a century-old tradition of anti-semitism among Palestinians culminating in active participation in the annihilation of the Jewish people, *Netanyahu wants to establish a line of direct and straight-forward historical continuity from the Holocaust to today’s ongoing tensions. He implies that today’s Intifada has nothing to do with Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, the separation barrier, the question of Jewish settlements on Palestinian lands or the general socio-economic situation of the Palestinians, but that at its core is simply ingrained anti-semitism*.


There’s no doubt: Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini was anti-semitic and anti-Israel. He collaborated with Nazi Germany as a broadcaster and propagandist, and he helped recruit Balkan Muslims to fight for the Nazis. There is little doubt that he knew about the Holocaust and did not object when he learned about it (probably following a meeting with Himmler in 1943): however, he was not the inspiration behind the Holocaust. This must never be confused.


As the German chancellor Angela Merkel emphasised again after Netanyahu’s comments: the Holocaust is and remains the sole responsibility of the Germans.


*The history of the Holocaust is too sensitive a topic to be allowed to be exploited and abused in inflammatory speeches. Netanyahu’s comments are not supported by scholarly evidence*. But now that the genie is out of the bottle, academics will find it much more difficult to get through with their evidenced arguments. *Holocaust deniers and right-wing extremists could well hijack Netanyahu’s comments for their agenda as proof that they were right: the Holocaust was not Germany’s original doing*, and they can now cite an Israeli prime minister as suggesting exactly that.


The damage that this poses to an *evidence-based discussion* of the Holocaust is as yet immeasurable – but it could well be a very high price to pay for what Netanyahu probably hoped would give him a short-term political advantage in the upcoming negotiations._

_ 
 

_ ​


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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You didn't really read it did you?  You just picked out what you wanted?  Historical context was brought up, you can't compare what happened then to the world of today - freedom, like exists now - did not exist in the ancient world.  Jews, in many parts of the world were non-citizens.  In the context of that - being second class citizens was better than being non-citizens with greater rights and protections, even though it wasn't equality.


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## CMike (Oct 25, 2015)

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That is inaccurate. 

Netanyahu said that at the time Hitler met the Mufti, Hitler was working on expelling the Jews not murdering them.

The Mufti, said that if you expel them they will come here, and that Hitler should burn them.

Obviously, Hitler is responsible for attempting and coming close to exterminate all Jews, however, the mufti was complicit.

The point that I understood from Netanyahu's speech is that this isn't about the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. 

The arabs were trying to kill all the Jews in Israel before those areas were even captured. 

The arabs were trying to kill the Jews before the Jews even formed the state.

The Mufti's collaboration with Hitler is proof of this. The Mufti was part of the Nuremberg trials. He also used the same arguement that the Jews are trying to destroy the mosque on the Temple Mount that the arabs are spewing today. 

That was Netanyahu's point, and his point was a good one. It was also the truth


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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You take someone's books and history and then can them heretics.  It is not just some ideas borrowed.   Calling jews early fathers or on the right track but not complete might in Christian and Islamic terms be more accurate, but to  call them devils, spawns of satan, occult blood drinkers and ritual murders, evil and blame them for every natural and unnatural act through history how they viewed jews for far too long.  Christians are the one that drink the blood and eat the flesh of their god, symbolically, not the jews.  Christians idolize the suffering man on the cross so they can have a spiritual rebirth after death.  These are pagan concepts not jewish, but they use the jewish text as their own.  How are jews heretics if they follow the fist half of the bible?  Are children heretics till they pass advanced calculous in school?  In jewish terms Jetsus would not have used blood and flesh imagery but might have used other terms for life or energy for the apostles to carry on the teachings.  Blood and flesh would be pagan terms in worship and practice.  The idea of human sacrifice to god I also against jewish beliefs.  The sacrifice of Jesus in those terms is not jewish but pagan.  But jews are the ones seen as heretics and evil?  Why take the OT as part of the bible at all if jews were heretics?  Yet Judaism is the foundation of both Christianity and Islam.  In the grand scheme of things, the jews were just a small cult.  Jesus is accepted but not the religion he was born into and taught?

Romans borrowed the greek and Egyptian god but they did not use their text and rituals or the names of their gods the way the jewish faith was stolen.  Rome did not try to wipe out the Egyptian and greek faiths but let them die out.  Romans tried to execute masses of jews and scatted or enslaved much of the rest.  Other people were allowed to keep their faiths, but the jews had to do so in secret, their temple destroyed and items stolen?  But Christians worship a jewish man as god while killing jews.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

CMike said:


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Netanyahu said this (from the OP):

_"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Historians quickly noted that the *Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running.* Hitler had* previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.*_​The problem is - there is no historical evidence or record  for that conversation.

Netanyahu's speech is very much about the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jeruselum.  By putting modern day Arabs and Palestinians in the same league as Hitler is defining them the same way as the Nazi's - a scrouge that can only be fought, killed, eradicated - never negotiated with.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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I'm not sure what you mean Aris - all religions borrow from what proceeds them - particularly if the one who started the new religion, was of the old.  It's not stealing - it's incorporating parts of the old into the new.  I don't understand why it is an issue.  Even Judaism was built from earlier religions.


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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"The history of the Holocaust " was the story of the jews in Europe.  It is a large part of the jewish need for security today.  That history is still being advocated by Iran and others on every media form around the world.  The diaspora was history, the holocaust was yesterday.  People from those camps are still alive to remember the horrors, to remember the numbers of the dead jews and how close the jews came to being exterminated from the earth.  They remember just how close hitler and the mufti came to their final solution.  That extermination is still a real threat today.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

By the way, even Judiasm "stole" from earlier religions.  Where do you think many of their "demons" came from?  They were from older, polytheistic deities transformed into the Jewish pantheon of demons.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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And that is why it shouldn't be used lightly, for political purposes or to demonize, and that is especially why the events shouldn't be distorted in the same manner that Holocaust Deniers do.  If politicians start doing that over and over it in this manner, becomes like the boy who cried wolf.


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> By the way, even Judiasm "stole" from earlier religions.  Where do you think many of their "demons" came from?  They were from older, polytheistic deities transformed into the Jewish pantheon of demons.



Jews did not try to wipe them out.


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## CMike (Oct 25, 2015)

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Coyote said:


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There is historical evidence of what Netanyahu stated.

Netanyahu: Arab Leader Made Pact with Hitler Against Jews


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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What does that have to do with "stealing a religion"?  Jews in ancient times were pretty warlike, just like everyone else.


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## CMike (Oct 25, 2015)

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That is true. This is a religious war, not a political one.

This was well said by this female guest.

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/b...very-person-blaming-israel-for-muslim-terror/


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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Not some wolf, the followers of "the wolf".  A wolf that was a partner in madness with hitler.  The pack is still threatening and killing jews today.

It is not some imaginary wolf.  Listen to the speeches, preaching and rhetoric from across the region on any given day.  Listen to the broadcasts, videos and news casts.  Read the news.

Mufti might be as dead as hitler but their ideas, their "final solution" is not.


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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Brietbart is not a very accurate source when it comes to history and it doesn't really address the issue.

No one is denying that the Mufti collaborated with Hitler (and was a Nazi) or that he wanted to eradicate the Jews of Palestine.  No one is denying he was an evil man.

What the argument is, and where Netanyahu is wrong - is that the Mufti was not the architect for the Final Solution, there is no record of the conversation between the Mufti and Hitler that Netanyahu quotes, and that the only evidence implying that the Mufti influenced Hitler at all is hearsay.


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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for the sake of argument............
do you believe the mufti knew?
do you believe the mufti encourage hitler and the final solution?
do you believe they discussed it?
do you believe the mufti want the jews dead before hitler?
do you believe the mufti did not want the jews deported or allowed to escape the nazis?
do you believe the mufti supported or told others to kill jews?

Do you believe the mufti ever said not to kill the jews but to live in peace with them as brothers, fellow human beings?


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## CMike (Oct 25, 2015)

Coyote said:


> By the way, even Judiasm "stole" from earlier religions.  Where do you think many of their "demons" came from?  They were from older, polytheistic deities transformed into the Jewish pantheon of demons.


What demons?


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

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Yes
unknown
unknown
unkown
he did not want them deported and ending up in Palestine, deliberately prevented it and caused them to be killed
supported yes
of course not


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## Coyote (Oct 25, 2015)

CMike said:


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Aamon and Astaroth, for example were dieties from other religions recast as demons.


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## aris2chat (Oct 25, 2015)

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do you believe the mufti encourage hitler and the final solution?  (unknown?)
What of all the broadcasts made by the mufti?  What of being paid in gold to carry on the final solution in the middle east?

do you believe they discussed it?     (unknown?)
Why would hitler pay the mufti to kill jews if it was never discussed?  Why was the mufti giving orders to his muslim SS troops if it was not discussed?  And the Bosnian death camps under the mufti's SS?  Just a potatoes farm?

do you believe the mufti want the jews dead before hitler?
He ordered the killing of jews back in the '20s.  He preaching the killing in the mosque and on radio.

They both wanted the jews dead but they never spoke of their vision of a jew free world?  Never mentioned it would be better to kill the jews instead?  Never spoke of how to kill so many jews?
I'm sure you are smarter than that.  You believe the change came by coincidence right after meeting the mufti?  Something so critical to them both?
I suppose
Rashid 'Ali al-Kailani and Fawzi al-Qawuqji we just as ignorant of the jewish fate as the mufti?  Hitler used them and they used hitler against the allies and against the jews.


Jewish conspiracy, world Jewry, jewish seizure of all Arab lands, enslave and exploit Arabs, corrupting the moral fabric of society, immutable characteristics and behaviors, infectious disease, microbes or bacilli, kill Jews wherever found,"removing" all the jews from the earth, the common interests of Germany and Italy with those of Arabs and Muslims. Nazi Germany was the natural ally of the Arab and Muslim world, Germany alone recognized the global threat of the "Jewish problem" and took steps to "solve" it globally......................  Not exactly bothers of the book or an ofter to share mint tea and honey cakes.  Hitler is burning down synagogues and lets the mufti build an Islamic center in Berlin months after their first face to face.

Why do you thing the mufti was such a wanted man after the nazi surrender?  Someone so well know using fake papers till he made it to cairo, even then they ended kicking him to the curb.

But the mufti and hitler did never collude in exterminating jews in europe or the middle east?  Like hiter and mussolini never colluded either?   Hitler had a better knack for organization but the anti-Semitism and desire for extermination was mutal.
But that was just coincidence as well?

>>During the Nuremberg Trials that followed World War II, Dieter Wisliceny, a deputy of Adolph Eichmann, described the Mufti as one of Eichmann’s closest confidants: “The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry...and had been the permanent collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of the plan. According to my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who had been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews. He had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities...the extermination of European Jewry. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures.” When Eichmann was captured and tried in Israel in 1961, Golda Meir called for Al Husseini to be tried, as well.<<



another book for you
Icon of Evil: Hitler's Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam By David G. Dalin, John F. Rothmann, Alan M. Dershowitz


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## Challenger (Oct 26, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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You know, every time I do that, I get accused of being a salesperson for Amazon.


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## Challenger (Oct 26, 2015)

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Most of this is complete fabrication, and anything Dershowitz is involved with, doubly so.


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## Phoenall (Oct 26, 2015)

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 And your evidence of the Israeli's targeting children with illegal weapons to instill terror in the arab muslim's is what.

 The Palestinians have already done the hard work of declaring a state, now they just need to take the last 2 baby steps towards full statehood and all that goes with it, which will mean they will have to start paying for goods and services instead of lining pockets and paying terrorists. Then they would no longer be able to blame Israel for the state of their country, and the world would see their terrorist attacks for what they are and turn against them


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## Phoenall (Oct 26, 2015)

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Because you are, which is why instead of providing links to scientific papers you give links to works of fiction


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## Phoenall (Oct 26, 2015)

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 Only in your fantasy world as the minutes of the Nuremburg trials are freely avaiable


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## pbel (Oct 26, 2015)

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Would a list of Freudian writings help or perhaps some B.F. Skinner's Operant Conditioning might ease your confusion in constantly posting nonsensical sputtering?


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## Phoenall (Oct 26, 2015)

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 What are you rambling on about now, could I ask the mods to check the IP address of this poster against others from team Palestine as I believe that there is a possibility of split personality disorder here.


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## aris2chat (Oct 26, 2015)

Challenger said:


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The trial was not dubious or fabricated and states the Mufti was the "initiator" of the extermination.

Th mufti's radio broadcasts from Berlin or his sermons and speeches in arab radio are not in doubt

Dotan Valley, near Nablus where the mufti planned his "crematoriums of the Auschwitz kind, to which the Jews of the Land of Israel as well as the Jews of Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and even North Africa would be brought, so as to annihilate them with the methods used by the SS in the death camps of Europe"
Haviv Canaan, “Hamufti Tichnen Misrafot l’Yehudim b’Emek Dotan”

But any book, document or evidence be it in English, German, French or Hebrew is suspect to you?  Even the Arabic broadcasts by the mufti are somehow fabricated?

The same things the mufti said were repeated time an again by Arafat





You can't absolve the mufti or Arafat from the killing of all the jews "wherever you find them" then or now.


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## montelatici (Oct 26, 2015)

I am sure Native Americans had leaders that said the same thing about the invading Europeans in the Americas.  It's quite normal for people undergoing an invasion to wish for the death of the invader.


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## Coyote (Oct 26, 2015)

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Are all these historians wrong?  Are they lying?

In Netanyahu’s mufti-Holocaust allegation, echoes of his father’s maverick approach to history

Netanyahu bases his contentious assertion on historical sources, which — taken at face value — indeed support the claim that the mufti played an integral part in the fuhrer’s plan to annihilate the Jewish people. These sources are vehemently disputed by most serious scholars. But then, the prime minister is not the first member of his family to swim against the scholarly current.

...
Defending his contentious remarks Wednesday as he made his way to Berlin, the prime minister said: “There is much evidence about this, including the testimony of [Adolf] Eichmann’s deputy at the Nuremberg trials — not now, but after World War II.”

Netanyahu then cited two statements attributed to SS-Hauptsturmführer Dieter Wisliceny, who served under Eichmann in the Jewish affairs department of the Reich Security Main Office and who from 1940 acted as adviser on Jewish affairs to the Slovakian government, participating in the deportation of Jews from Slovakia, Greece, and Hungary:

_“In my opinion, the Grand Mufti, who has been in Berlin since 1941, played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews, the importance of which must not be disregarded. He has repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he has been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution for the Palestine problem.”_

That quote comes from the 1946 Nuremberg trials. Netanyahu also cited a sentence that Wisliceny is believed to have uttered in Bratislava while the Holocaust was raging, in 1944:

_“The Mufti was one of the instigators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and was a partner and adviser to Eichmann and Hitler for carrying out this plan.”_

“The attempt by certain scholars and people to be apologists for the key and important role of Haj Amin al-Husseini is clear,” an unrepentant Netanyahu said Wednesday. “Many other researchers cite this testimony and others regarding the role of Haj Amin al-Husseini.”

Netanyahu is not the first to cite the Wisliceny quotes. They feature, for instance, in a 2012 book, “Israel: The Will to Prevail,” by the man Netanyahu recently appointed as his ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Danon.* But Danon acknowledges the problematics of the claim: “Some historians have cast doubt on al-Husseini’s involvement in the ‘final solution,’” he writes, “since it was already under way after [sic] al-Husseini’s arrival on the scene.”*

*In fact, it is not some, but rather most serious historians who doubt the veracity of Wisliceny’s account.*

Yehuda Bauer, Israel’s preeminent Holocaust scholar, is a prominent case in point. “After the war, they caught him (Wisliceny) and tried him at Nuremberg, *where he tried to eschew all responsibility, saying: ‘It wasn’t Hitler, it wasn’t me, it was the mufti,'”* Bauer told The Times of Israel on Thursday. “I am not sure if Wisliceny ever met the mufti. I doubt it, but it’s doesn’t matter. *It’s clear that his account is untrue: the Germans had started annihilating the Jews half a year before Hitler and the mufti met*. Netanyahu’s story is entirely baseless.” (Wisliceny was executed for war crimes in 1948.)

Bauer, a professor emeritus of history and Holocaust Studies at Hebrew University and an academic advisor to Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial, *is far from alone among elite historians in rejecting Netanyahu’s reliance on Wisliceny’s testimony.*

*The “Wisliceny hearsay is not merely uncorroborated, but conflicts with everything else that is known about the origins of the Final Solution,”* Rafael Medoff, the head of the Washington, DC-based David Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, wrote in a 1996 article for the Journal of Israeli History.

“*There is no independent documentary confirmation of Wisliceny’s statements*, and it seems unlikely that the Nazis needed any such additional encouragement from the outside,” historian Bernard Lewis, an eminent Islam scholar, wrote in 1997.

There are some scholars who are willing to believe Wisliceny’s testimony. David Dalin and John Rothmann, in their 2008 book “Icon of Evil: Hitler’s Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam,” wrote that by recruiting Muslims in Bosnia for the Waffen-SS, “al-Husseini played an important role in Hitler’s extermination of the Europe Jews. It was not, however, his only direct contribution to Hitler’s Final Solution. In other ways, the mufti contributed actively to the Holocaust.” In his review for The New York Times, however, Israeli historian Tom Segev *dismissed the book as “of little scholarly value” due to the “lack of solid evidence” for its theories*.

Last year, Barry Rubin and Wolfgang Schwanitz published “Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East,” in which they contend that during their 1941 meeting in Berlin, Hitler and al-Husseini “concluded the pact of Jewish genocide in Europe and the Middle East, and immediately afterward, Hitler gave the order to prepare for the Holocaust. The next day invitations went out to thirteen Nazis for the Wannsee Conference to begin organizing the logistics of this mass murder.” *The assertion in that book, too, was rejected in reviews. *“The claim that al-Husaini was the hidden hand behind Adolf Hitler is implausible, even silly,” the University of Houston’s David Mikics wrote in Tablet. “Rubin and Schwanitz are historians with a political agenda: *They want to show that eliminationist anti-Semitism animates the Islamic Middle East, and so they paint al-Husaini as so devilishly anti-Semitic that he can contend with Hitler himself.”*

Bauer, the Israeli Holocaust historian, echoed the critique that the book makes unconvincing assertions *based on “unreliable sources.”*
​*It's a very dangerous game to misuse history, especially Holocaust history in this manner.*


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## Coyote (Oct 26, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> do you believe the mufti encourage hitler and the final solution?  (unknown?)
> What of all the broadcasts made by the mufti?  What of being paid in gold to carry on the final solution in the middle east?
> 
> do you believe they discussed it?     (unknown?)
> ...



You asked me specific questions and I gave answers.  

Did the Mufti encourage Hitler in the final solution?  I'm saying unknown because I don't know what transpired between them.  What I DO know, based on what historians have written, is that Hitler was already applying the final solution before he ever met the Mufti.  The Mufti might have encouraged him but it made no difference - he was already doing it.

If you were asking if the Mufti supported the final solution?  I would say yes - it's quite clear he wanted Jews killed and was willing to do it for Hitler.

Do you believe they discussed it?  I put unknown, but you are right they would have discussed it.

Do you believe the Mufti wanted the Jews dead before Hitler?  I put unknown because I did not know.

I'm not saying they never spoke of killing Jews - that is a big difference from saying the Mufti gave Hitler the idea and that Hitler was only innocently going to deport them prior to the Mufti.  That is not supported by evidence and that is where Netanyahu's statements fall apart.


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## Lipush (Oct 26, 2015)

Desperado said:


> Netanyahu is just trying to vilify the the  Palestinians and try to turn public opinion against them .



How do you like them apples?


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## CMike (Oct 26, 2015)

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Those were not Netanyahu s statements.

The mufti encouraged hitler to murder Jews.

That's hard to legitimately deny.


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## aris2chat (Oct 26, 2015)

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Nothing innocent about Hitler, but persecution, killing an arrests came prior to the final solution.  After the mufti, there were written plans not just of the camps but for the building of the chambers and oven that would be active in the final solution holocaust.  Hitler had not problem killing jew, but to burn in mass numbers leading to the death of 6 million was not part of his original plan.
Hitler had not plans for the middle east other than to keep the british frustrated by the arabs.
Mufti had been calling for the extermination of jews before hitler.  Mufti was even by german accounts active in the planning of the extermination.
Just because the mufti suggested or instigated or just encouraged, he was an avid supporter of the death camps.  Plans were put in place or accelerated after the mufti's face to face.  Mufti carried on what hitler began even after the nazi surrender.  They were both guilty, very guilty.

The same rhetoric begun by the mufti was used in Germany and still used by Palestinians.  It goes full circle.  The same calls for the total extermination of jews were ever they are found, not just in Palestine or Germany.  Same calls that are coming from Iran and threatening Israel today.

It is all woven together with the same goal, another holocaust of jews, and in some cases of Christian as well.

Mufti is far from innocent in the planning of the final solution and just become the mufti want the jews dead and not deported does not absolve hitler of any guild what so ever.  Same target, same goal, and same cremation, same solution.  Hitler, Mufti, Himmler and the others were all part of the formal plans begin in Dec of '41.  It was a collaborative effort.

Arafat, hamas and other carry on the same desire for not just the killing of jews but the extermination.  You can't take the mufti out of the equation, and including the mufti in no way absolves hitler or the nazis. It just gives a clearer picture of event today.

The question everyone should be considering is how to break the cycle, not excuse it or justify it.  How to teach people to end the anti-Semitism and accept them as humans with ties to the land no less than the claims the Palestinians want.  How to get each a sense of security and get them each to make compromises that will lead to an agreement and future cooperation between the two groups.  First decide who actually has a right to speak for the Palestinians.  Can't have twenty groups each with the own very different demands.  They also have to agree to recognize Israel and willingness to talk to them.

Jews are not demons, devils, pig, monsters, parasites or mass murders.  Palestinians have to stop thinking in terms of wipe Israel and the jews off the face of the earth.  Children are taught words don't hurt, but in the middle east calls for violence and kills do.  Get the Palestinians to stop teaching every child that can walk how to kill jews, by any means.

Till you can un-teach the lessons of hitler and the mufti, you can't end the fear the jews have for their very existence.


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## aris2chat (Oct 26, 2015)

The Role of Palestinians and Arabs in the Holocaust

yet another piece on the mufti's guilt


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## pbel (Oct 26, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
> 
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> ...


When you mix money and Politics, bad things happen. End the occupation...


aris2chat said:


> The Role of Palestinians and Arabs in the Holocaust
> 
> yet another piece on the mufti's guilt


The Zionist Invasion of Palestine into an area of 5-6 hundred million angry Arabs was a stupid move it will never pan out...


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## aris2chat (Oct 26, 2015)

pbel said:


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It was their home and the arabs were the invaders.  Jews had a right to a homeland where they can protect themselves.  Their holy sites was the temple long before Mohammed had a dream of a place he never went to.
If muslims want access to the mount they will have to share it.
Israel is not giving back land it paid for either.  Land abandoned by the arabs for so long without paying taxes or maintaining it is lost to them.  Arabs could have stayed but they preferred to see the jews exterminated by the arab armies instead.
Israel controls the land, so if Palestinians want a state they have to work with Israel not against it.

Firing rockets again at Israel is not way to end this cycle of violence but that is what hamas has done again.  Teaching kids to stab, throw rocks or burn cars has to stop.

If the Palestinians want a state they have to show Israel they are ready to be good neighbors, not terrorists and killers forever at war with the jews.


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## CMike (Oct 26, 2015)

Coyote said:


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They are people with an agenda.

Netanyahu was spot on and he made a great point.

The arabs wanted to destroy Israel before Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt.

They wanted to destroy Israel when Israel was just a little sliver of land when it declared a state.

The arabs wanted to kill all the Jews before there was even an Israeli state in 1948.

This isn't a political war this is a religious one.

The arabs want to kill all the Jews because they exist.


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## CMike (Oct 26, 2015)

Coyote said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
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> > do you believe the mufti encourage hitler and the final solution?  (unknown?)
> ...


That's not what Netanyhu said. He said at the time Hitler wanted to expel the Jews. The Mufti said he wanted Hitler to kill the Jews.

Hitler is still responsible for the Holocaust. The Mufti was an accomplice.


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## pbel (Oct 26, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Look, you are a simple puppet for Zionist propaganda...The Romans invaded and changed the course of History...Euro Jews were absent for two thousand years...Your distortion of History makes you look foolish.


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## aris2chat (Oct 26, 2015)

pbel said:


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I grew up around Palestinians, I worked with Palestinians, I've only known a few score jews in person and most were not even Israeli.  Why would you assume my views or experience is because of Zionists and not Palestinians?


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## pbel (Oct 26, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> pbel said:
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Are you serious, you sound like a Zionist mouth piece day in and out, even though you hate the  Palestinians dispersed by Israel to Lebanon.

You blame the wrong group for your misery


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## aris2chat (Oct 26, 2015)

pbel said:


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I don't hate. I strongly disagree with policies, rhetoric, violence and lies calling for the destruction of Israel.  There are some leaders that might come close to hating, but it is their words and actions, not them as people.

I hate what is happening in the middle east


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## Billo_Really (Oct 27, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> I don't hate. I strongly disagree with policies, rhetoric, violence and lies calling for the destruction of Israel.


That's the biggest lie of all.  They are not calling for the destruction of Israel, they are calling for the end of occupation and allowing the Palestinian's to live in freedom, not tyranny.

You just "say" they are trying to destroy you, so you can continue to force them to live under martial law.  It's just an excuse, not the problem.





aris2chat said:


> There are some leaders that might come close to hating, but it is their words and actions, not them as people.


That door swings both ways.





aris2chat said:


> I hate what is happening in the middle east


I don't think you do.

If you truly hated what is happening in the ME, you wouldn't be in such denial about what's causing the problems.

_Hint: Neither group is 100% the cause of the problems, but one group is more to blame the other and it's not even close._


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## Humanity (Oct 27, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> The Role of Palestinians and Arabs in the Holocaust
> 
> yet another piece on the mufti's guilt



Well, that was a waste of 30 seconds...

A pointless post, with a pointless link!


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## Challenger (Oct 27, 2015)

CMike said:


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CMike said:


> They are people with an agenda.



Quite right. Just like Zionist Israeli "historians" have an agenda. 

The rest of your post, however, clearly demonstrates you have no idea what you are talking about.


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## Challenger (Oct 27, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> The Role of Palestinians and Arabs in the Holocaust
> 
> yet another piece on the mufti's guilt


Yet another piece of Zionist Hasbara.


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## Challenger (Oct 27, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Challenger said:
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aris2chat said:


> The trial was not dubious or fabricated and states the Mufti was the "initiator" of the extermination.



Which trial are you referring to Nureburg or Eichmann's? Have you actually read Dieter Wisliceny's affidavit and trial testimony? Allow me The Avalon Project : Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 4 - Twenty-Sixth Day



aris2chat said:


> Th mufti's radio broadcasts from Berlin or his sermons and speeches in arab radio are not in doubt



Well yes they are. The BBC closely monitored and recorded German radio broadcasts throughout the war and many of the broadcasts attributed to the Mufti were announced as made by "a distinguished Arab personality" by the Germans which is a bit bizarre if you are trying to promote the idea that The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is on your side. In cases wher the Mufti is positively identified, some parts of the speechs have been "miss-translated",  fabricated, or "spun" in a negative way.  Guides to Translation Services: FBIS, BBC, and World News Connection



aris2chat said:


> Dotan Valley, near Nablus where the mufti planned his "crematoriums of the Auschwitz kind, to which the Jews of the Land of Israel as well as the Jews of Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and even North Africa would be brought, so as to annihilate them with the methods used by the SS in the death camps of Europe"
> Haviv Canaan, “Hamufti Tichnen Misrafot l’Yehudim b’Emek Dotan”



Interesting, given your quoted source, is there an independant verification of this? It's curious that Faiz Bay Idrisi is cast as a senior officer in the Mandate Police, given that all senior ranks in the Palestine Police were held exclusively by British officers throughout the priod of the Mandate. Care to elaborate as to his rank and service number so he can be traced?


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## Phoenall (Oct 27, 2015)

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 First end the violence as history proves that ending the occupation increases the violence

 What Zionist invasion was that then, is it like the arab muslim invasions into Palestine that resulted in bloody noses for the arabs ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 27, 2015)

pbel said:


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 But Palestinian Jews were not and they were the ones who had the birthright going back 4,500 years. The arab muslims could barely go back 1 generation


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## Phoenall (Oct 27, 2015)

Challenger said:


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 According to islamonazi propaganda and blood libels, isn't that right rat boy ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 27, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
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> > I don't hate. I strongly disagree with policies, rhetoric, violence and lies calling for the destruction of Israel.
> ...







 The hamas charter states

*Article Five: Dimensions of Time and Space of the Hamas*
As the Movement adopts Islam as its way of life, its time dimension extends back as far as the birth of the Islamic Message and of the Righteous Ancestor. Its ultimate goal is Islam, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution.

 And the koran commands the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS"

*Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences*
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” 

 They will never accept any peace so showing that your claims are bullshit islamonazi propagands



 As shown by your proven Jew hatred and Nazism

 Because it would mean that it was you who was wrong.

 It is the intransigence of extremist islam that is causing the problems, and idiots like you stoking the fires because of Jew hatred


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## Phoenall (Oct 27, 2015)

Humanity said:


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> > The Role of Palestinians and Arabs in the Holocaust
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 Like your non existent links do you mean, still waiting for 137 links from you that you have refused to supply.


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## Phoenall (Oct 27, 2015)

Challenger said:


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 What about the islamonazi history then that is used in most cases to show the muslims are the cause of the problems


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## Humanity (Oct 27, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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Like I said earlier Phoney...

Zionut... "levels of extreme irrationality and potential insanity"

When was the last time you posted ANYTHING to support your insane, slightly freakish rantings?


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## Challenger (Oct 27, 2015)

Humanity said:


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He never has. Generally not worth the effort to engage with Phoney, he's just another internet troll.


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## pbel (Oct 27, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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Lets all go back to our birthright places of 4,500 years ago? You are truly Nuts!


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## Challenger (Oct 27, 2015)

pbel said:


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Good idea, I quite fancy a nice villa overlooking the Great Rift Valley...sadly those black skinned chaps that live there at the moment will have to go...


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## Coyote (Oct 27, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Almost no historians lay the Final Solution at the Mufti's feet and that is what Netanyahu's statement does and by implication - tars all Palestinians as people that can never be negotiated with and can only be exterminated.  There is plenty of hatred towards the Palestinians and Arabs from the Jews.  It is taught.  It is encouraged - perhaps not to the degree it is among the Palestinians, who are also living under an Occupation which I am sure colors their perception of the Jews, but it is there and statements like that of Netanyahu - the country's leader - validate that.  How responsible is that?  Is he any different from the Palestinian leaders?  No.

Jews are not demons, devils, pigs, monsters, parasites or mass murderers.  Neither are Palestinians.


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## Coyote (Oct 27, 2015)

CMike said:


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No.  Otherwise they'd be killing them all over the world.  The war is a political one stemming from the founding of Israel and Arab nationalism.  To say otherwise is to ignore history and white wash Israel's own contributions to the conflict.

Before Israel was a state - before the rise of Zionism, Jews and Arabs got along as well as any mixed religious group.


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## CMike (Oct 27, 2015)

On what planet were they getting along before Israel became a state?

As Netanyahu said the mufti wanted the Jews exterminated and they were consistently attacked by Arabs.


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## montelatici (Oct 27, 2015)

The Mufti wanted the Zionist invasion of Palestine to cease.  As far as Zionist invaders being attacked by the Christians and Muslims, of course, foreign invaders are normally attacked by the native people being invaded.


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## CMike (Oct 27, 2015)

The mufti wanted all Jews dead.


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## Coyote (Oct 27, 2015)

CMike said:


> On what planet were they getting along before Israel became a state?
> 
> As Netanyahu said the mufti wanted the Jews exterminated and they were consistently attacked by Arabs.




_*How did Zionism and the establishment of the State of Israel divide Jews and Muslims?*_

In Europe in the 19th century, Jews, faced with a new form of racial and political anti-Semitism (building on the older, religiously-based anti-Semitism), sought solutions to what was called “the Jewish problem.” Zionism, as a means of escaping anti-Semitism, was one of the proposed remedies. *The idea of a Jewish state in Palestine was one of several factors driving a wedge between Muslims and Jews in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, as Arabs, too, began to be imbued with the nationalist spirit. European-style anti-Semitism, a phenomenon imported from the Christian West, combined with Muslim anti-Zionism to erode whatever remained of the age-old coexistence of Jews and Muslims*, even though Zionism, in its political form, was essentially a European-Jewish phenomenon and not deeply entrenched in the belief system of the Jews of the Arab world.

- See more at: Mark R. Cohen on ‘A History of Jewish-Muslim Relations’ (Book Q & A)   : ISLAMiCommentary




http://www.worldreligionnews.com/?p=10424


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## aris2chat (Oct 27, 2015)

Coyote said:


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and yet there are scores of book in various languages, some in print others would be out of print by now, that very much do lay shared responsibility at the mufti's feet, even text of the mufti's own words.

Not all historians published I the last ten years or choose to soften history and its consequences today for "political correctness" (gad I'm getting sick of PC)

Jordan and Syrian, even Palestinians, had no problem with the Mufti's nazi connection or his plans to carry on the extermination.  Why are westerners so touchy about it?  Political charters still advocate the extermination.  Modern broadcast is full of arab and muslims parroting hiter and the mufti.

Arafat's devotion to his uncle was never hidden or minimized.  Why do people want to whitewash the mufti after so long?  Check the streets of gaza or any moderate town and they will have pamphlets and tapes of the mufti's sermons and speeches and broadcasts.  Probably right next to mien kamph, PoEZ and the little green book.

If Palestinians wanted to clean up their image, they would denounce violence and stop calling for the death of all jews and paying murders like war heroes.


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## montelatici (Oct 27, 2015)

That would be like the Native Americans denouncing Sitting Bull.  Don't you see how silly you are. Of course people being invaded wish for the elimination of the invader.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
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 Yesterday which is more than you have done in the last 12 months to support your insane freakish rantings and disinformation. Now 138 requests for proof of your claims that have not been answered.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

Challenger said:


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 Only in your fantasy world rat boy, and seeing as you are the accredited TROLL you would know.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

Coyote said:


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 Then you have read a different report to the rest of us as we see it as the mufti being placed on an equal footing with Hitler, Himmler, Goering, Bormann, Hess and Speer and many others. If it was a Jew that was being reported in this way you would be all for him and the rest of the Jews being branded as mass murderers wouldn't you.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
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 I am at that place so why did you leave your birthright ?   The Jews have a proven longevity of living in Palestine, the muslims don't as they did not exist before 627 C.E. Now when did the "Palestinians " get granted the land of Judaea and Samaria by international treaty again ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

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 What you mean is that none of the historians you are prepared to read place partial blame on the mufti for his part in the final solution. As that is what was actually said, not as you claim that the mufti was the one who issued the command to "KILL THE JEWS"


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
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 They are killing them all over the world, which is why the numbers are dropping in so many nations. The increasing numbers of hate crimes against the Jews are as a result of increased muslim migration as they parallel each other.
 Before Israel was a state the muslims often went on murderfests to decimate the numbers of Christians and Jews in the M.E and Africa and these are well documented and have been produced on here, and still you deny the truth.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

montelatici said:


> The Mufti wanted the Zionist invasion of Palestine to cease.  As far as Zionist invaders being attacked by the Christians and Muslims, of course, foreign invaders are normally attacked by the native people being invaded.







 What about the Christian invasion then, as the arab muslims have also ethnically cleansed 90% of them from Palestine in the last 10 years.  Cant have been Israel as they would have also cleansed 90% of the arab muslims.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

CMike said:


> The mufti wanted all Jews dead.






 The fact is that mo'mad wanted all the Jews dead and made it a religious command


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

Coyote said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > On what planet were they getting along before Israel became a state?
> ...







You do realise that you have linked to a purely Islamic propaganda site that will of course push Islamic propaganda and ignore the truth. Here is a map showing just a few of the massacres of Jews by muslims  since 11C


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## Challenger (Oct 28, 2015)

CMike said:


> The mufti wanted all Jews dead.



Prove it.


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## Challenger (Oct 28, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> nd yet there are scores of book in various languages, some in print others would be out of print by now, that very much do lay shared responsibility at the mufti's feet, even text of the mufti's own words.



Really? Care to share? Most biographies of the Mufti have been written by Zionists, determined to make a perpetual bogey man of him to demonise Palestinians. Those written by Muslims tend to take the opposite course and deify him as a saintly patriot, valiantly defending his homeland against the evil Jewish invader. Both are politically motivated, primarily because despite some appalling decisions, seen with hindsight,  he is still seen as a hero to most Palestinians. 

If the Mufti was as bad as he's painted, all Zionist Israel has to do is publish the Mufti's archive, which was stolen by Phalangists from the Mufti's Beirut home and transported to Israel, that will settle the matter once and for all, wouldn't it?


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

Challenger said:


> CMike said:
> 
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> > The mufti wanted all Jews dead.
> ...






 Read the koran for starters, and then read the hadiths for clarification on what is meant by kill the unbeliever


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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I think accusing historians - well established and respected historians of "political correctness" is a cheap shot frankly.  We're not talking about new revionists - altering history in the face of  "political correctness" which is a modern phenomenum.  In fact, the few historians who are trying to make the case that the Mufti surpassed or even equalled Hitler are products of a new "revisionist" trend.  

It's not being "touchy" it's being honest, and it's calling Netanyahu out for spreading his own side's distorted message of hate.  You'll call out the Palestinian leadership but never the Israeli's?


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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Himmler, Goering etc are not on equal footing with Hitler but even they were bigger figures than the Mufti.  I read reports by reputable historians.

And your only response is  that criticism of Netanyahu is "it's da JOoooooooooos"?  Get over it.  They aren't any more angelic or demonic than the rest of us


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## Indeependent (Oct 28, 2015)

Don't we all want to have serial killers as neighbors?


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## montelatici (Oct 28, 2015)

Indeependent said:


> Don't we all want to have serial killers as neighbors?



Israeli Jews as neighbors?  Of course not.


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## Indeependent (Oct 28, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > Don't we all want to have serial killers as neighbors?
> ...


Most people are terrified by Jews.


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## montelatici (Oct 28, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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If you happen to live close to them, are unarmed and they have tanks and F16s known to bomb schools and murder 100s of children at a time you would be afraid too.


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## Indeependent (Oct 28, 2015)

montelatici said:


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Especially when your "brothers" won't lift a hand to help you because they're too busy murdering each other AND closing their borders in your face.

Your turn.


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## montelatici (Oct 28, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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Europeans don't murder each other anymore and their Governments (if not the people)  and  Americans support Israel, so there is no one with the requisite armed force to help the Palestinians.  So the Israeli Jews are able to continue their wanton murdering of Christian and Muslim children..


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

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 I never say " its da joooos" as I find it degrading and racist. It was the allies that refused to act against the Mufti and until the documents are released we will never know why. My personal view is he had something on the allies that could bring down nations to this day and open up cans of worms that the governments cant have made public knowledge


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## Roudy (Oct 28, 2015)

Don't fuck with Israelis, they will have nothing to do with you.  Israelis don't joke around, nor do they ask permission for protecting their people.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

montelatici said:


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 Arab league with over 1 million armed services and state of the art weapons systems


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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I'll stick to known historical accounts.


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## Indeependent (Oct 28, 2015)

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From Arab web sites.
Yep!


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

montelatici said:


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 They do when the muslims take over, and then the new Jews will be the eastern European states defending against Islamic invaders.


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## Phoenall (Oct 28, 2015)

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 ALL KNOWN HISTORICALL ACCOUNTS or just the ones that support your POV


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## aris2chat (Oct 28, 2015)

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Mufti was convicted and escaped "dressed as a woman".  He would have been sentenced to dead.

He was no innocent.


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## aris2chat (Oct 28, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
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Apparently any historian when any kinds of ties with jews are incapable of publishing any of their research or taken seriously.
???????


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## aris2chat (Oct 28, 2015)

Coyote said:


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Since the fall of the nazis is not revisionism.  Not including the Mufti because of Palestinian sensibilities is.

Mufti's own words call for the death of all jews, He wanted to build a crematorium for all the jews in the middle east and Africa, but that revisionism too?

They are in Arabic, but go to the library and get copies of his broadcasts.


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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No one is not including the mufti.



> Mufti's own words call for the death of all jews, He wanted to build a crematorium for all the jews in the middle east and Africa, but that revisionism too?



*That's  not the argument being made*.  Netanyahu's words were false and the intent behind why he made those statements at that particular time, using
"revisionism" to portray modern day Palestinians as akin to Nazi's is the issue and it keeps being ducked.  No one is white washing the Mufti - but let's be accurate about history and call Netanyahu's deciet for what it is.  If you want to call all those historians liars and revisionists - do so.



> They are in Arabic, but go to the library and get copies of his broadcasts.



Again - for I don't know how many times - no one is saying the Mufti didn't want the destruction of the Jews.  *That is not the argument.*


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Phoenall said:
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Most of the historians I quoted or were quoted in the articles I used as sources were themselves Jews.  *DID YOU MISS THAT PART?*


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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Did anyone say he was?


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## aris2chat (Oct 28, 2015)

>>
Lost in the discussion about how much the Mufti influenced Hitler is the inescapable fact that the Mufti and the Führer shared the same goal, the destruction of the Jews.

Hitler and Nazi Party philosopher Alfred Rosenberg were focused on eliminating the Jews of Europe. Haj Amin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti, was focused on eliminating the Jews of the Arab world.

_How much the Mufti had to do with Hitler’s Final Solution of the Jewish Question is unfortunately a diversion from the basic issue. The Mufti then, like Palestinians today, sought to slaughter Jews. _

The Mufti arrived in Berlin as a personal guest of the Führer after he had precipitated the infamous pogrom against the Jews of Iraq known as the Farhud, Arabic for violent uprising or dispossession. The Mufti came to Berlin with Jewish blood on his hands, a fact barely mentioned in the discussion of the Mufti’s role in the Holocaust. Moreover, the Mufti recruited 20,000 Bosnian Muslims for the SS, the Schutzstaffel, the group that was implementing Hitler’s Final Solution.

The Farhud was the Arab Kristallnacht, and it remains, to this day, the forgotten pogrom despite the incredible and detailed research of historian Edwin Black. The Farhud was the outcome of a fusion of Arab nationalism with Nazism as cultivated by Nazi propaganda disseminated via broadcasts in Arabic from Berlin. Anyone who thinks that the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic propaganda of the modern mainstream media with their continued mistakes and routine apologies for bias is harmless has no sense of history.

The Nazis were able to convince Iraqi Arab leaders that the Jews controlled both the British and the godless Soviet Union. When it came to the Jews, the Nazis were able to accuse them of everything and anything, and get people to believe them.

The affinity of the Arabs for a strong leader and a monolithic hierarchical movement also helped in the appeal of Nazism as did financial and other resources from Baghdad’s German Embassy. Hitler wanted the oil. The Arabs wanted the British out, and for those inclined to follow the Nazi example, they wanted to vent their hatred toward the Jews, who had lived peacefully among them for 2,600 years.

The Arab-Nazi movement in Iraq launched an uprising against the British, which was defeated. The British regent was returned on the first day of the Jewish holiday of Shavouth, June 1, 1941. The defeated Arab-Nazis, a movement that comprised diverse components including one that was modeled on the Hitler Youth, took their frustrations out on the Jews. The Farhud, which lasted two days, could have easily served as model for ISIS, with people slaughtered in front of their families, women and girls repeatedly raped, and then having their breasts slashed off. The death toll estimates vary, but it is generally thought that over 600 Jews were killed in two days.

The Mufti was one of the most prominent leaders in the Nazi movement in Iraq and responsible for the Farhud. For the Mufti, the Farhud was the harbinger of the larger goal for which he sought Hitler’s help, the destruction of the Jews of the Middle East.

The one uplifting and hidden story in accounts of the Farhud is the extent to which ordinary Arabs helped their Jewish neighbors escape death at risk of their own lives. It was a time when many Muslims had not been impregnated with the anti-Semitism of Europe and the fundamentalist interpretation of the Koran.

The most important aspect of the controversy surrounding Netanyahu’s statements is that then as now, the Nazi vision of a Europe free of Jews was shared by the leader of Palestinian nationalism, who sought a Middle East free of Jews, and was as willing as was Hitler to accomplish that through mass murder. When it came to Palestinians finding their salvation in the slaughter of Jews, Netanyahu is at least correct about there being ample precedent.<<
Abraham H. Miller


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## aris2chat (Oct 28, 2015)

>>
The words spoken by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the Mufti and Hitler have been taken out of context. The speech was devoted not to the Holocaust and who was responsible for it, but to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

It is a historical fact that the Palestinian national movement then headed by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, favored a alliance with Nazi Germany in the hope of eliminating the Jewish presence in Palestine.

It is also a fact that for the first seven years after Hitler’s assumption of power, the policy followed by him with regard to Jews was to force them out of Germany, by making their life as miserable as possible.

This is sometimes referred as the forced emigration policy – and did not include murder.

With this in mind, the Nazi regime came to an understanding, known as the Transfer Agreement, with the Zionist organization in Palestine that facilitated the emigration of thousands of Jews to that country. The horrific Kristallnacht pogrom of November 1938 was also largely prompted by the Nazi frustration at, in their estimation, the too-slow emigration of Jews. After that pogrom the Nazi regime, still adhering to the emigration policy, actively participated in what became known as the Rublee- Schacht plan to allow most remaining Jews to leave the country, even allowing as many children as possible to leave in what became known as the Kindertransport.

Even into the war, the Nazis toyed with the idea of the Madagascar Plan, whereby all of Europe’s Jews would be transferred, and in Vienna Adolf Eichman urged the Jewish Berthold Storfer and the Zionist Mossad Le’Aliyah Bet (Institute for Aliya B) to speed up the emigration of Jews, legally or not. In fact, they allowed a certain Josef Schleich to organize the illegal crossing of Jews into Yugoslavia – that is, until the German invasion of that country in April 1941.

It was only on the eve of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, on June 22, 1941, that the Nazi regime, frustrated at the apparent unwillingness of the major democracies to allow the ingress of Jews into their countries, and not willing to be “loaded down” with millions of additional Jews in the conquered countries, that it switched to a policy of mass extermination.

So, if Netanyahu meant that the original Nazi plan, pursued for over seven years, was to encourage emigration of Jews, he was right. At the same time, when Hitler met with the Mufti in late November 1941, he needed no advice from him regarding what to do with the Jews, as the killing of Jews had been proceeding at full speed for the past five months on the Soviet front with the help of the Einsatzgruppen.

Hundreds of thousands of Jews had already been shot to death over open pits and ravines, such as took place in Babi Yar, outside Kiev, Ukraine, in September 1941.

The Mufti nevertheless asked of Hitler to help free the Arab world from the so-called British stranglehold, which would also finish off the half a million Jews in then Palestine.

Hitler responded that first the military campaign against the Soviet Union had to be completed, and then Palestine would be no problem for the German military, and the Mufti would be positioned as the leader of all Arabs. The Mufti settled down in Berlin, with a hefty Nazi salary and a radio station, on which he called for all Muslims within and outside the German sphere to rise and kill Jews.

He then journeyed to Bosnia, to encourage local Muslims to join special SS-supported military units. When reviewing these troops, he was careful to give the Nazi salute – something that even Petain in France and Horthy in Hungary, both allies of Nazi Germany, refrained from doing when meeting with their Nazi overlords.

Furthermore, the Mufti’s strong opposition to allowing Jews to leave German-controlled countries for fear they would head to Palestine led to the German scuttling of a plan favored by its ally Bulgaria to allow some 5,000 Jewish children to leave for Palestine. Interestingly, Eichmann, in his talks with Joel Brand in the famous “blood for goods” deal was careful to indicate that the Jews that would be freed under this arrangement would all have to leave German- controlled countries via Spain, not any Balkan country, for fear of undermining the agreement with the Mufti not to allow any Jews access to Palestine.

In summary, had Netanyahu devoted his talk to the Holocaust and Hitler’s role in it, he undoubtedly would have underlined Hitler’s role in initiating the mass murder of Jews; a determination by him that needed no prompting by anyone else – although, for the first seven years of Hitler’s 12-year rule the policy was not extermination, but forced emigration.

At the same time, the Mufti’s constant prodding, probably strengthened Hitler’s resolve that he was on the right track when he had already abandoned emigration in favor of extermination. No wonder the Palestinian social media hardly mentions the Mufti, an unrepentant pro-Nazi collaborator who escaped justice during the Nuremberg trials of 1946 by fleeing Germany.

It should not be forgotten that Haj Amin al-Husseini was the leading spokesman for the Palestinian national movement during its formative years, beginning in 1920, and right up to the creation of Israel in 1948.<<

_The author was formerly head of the Righteous Among the Nations Department of Yad Vashem, and currently teaches about the Holocaust at Yeshiva University-Stern College and Touro College, New York._


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## aris2chat (Oct 28, 2015)

You worry about inciting violence?  Mufti Hussein is still saying there was never a temple, the mount was always a mosque since the world began.  Talk about revisionism.

>>“However until 1948, when they re-wrote history, their own Wakf guidebooks stated clearly that the Dome of the Rock is situated on the indisputable and universally accepted site of Solomon’s Temple".  <<


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> >>
> Lost in the discussion about how much the Mufti influenced Hitler is the inescapable fact that the Mufti and the Führer shared the same goal, the destruction of the Jews.
> 
> Hitler and Nazi Party philosopher Alfred Rosenberg were focused on eliminating the Jews of Europe. Haj Amin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti, was focused on eliminating the Jews of the Arab world.
> ...



It is by no means a diversion.  It's a deliberate attempt by Netanyahu to distort history and paint modern day Palestinians as Nazi's - a people who can not be negotiated with but only conquered or exterminated.  The Palestinian fight was a land issue, if it is becoming a religious issue we need to ask why?

It's  not just the Palestinians who are driving this, it's the Israeli's.  From their refusal or lack of political will to curb their own extremists to their expansion of religious (Jewish only) settlements in the Occupied Territories.   Netanyahu is trying to change the old dynamic in to a new one, where the Palestinian cause is lined it up with the Holocaust.  What a great way to make them non-people.  That is a disgusting misuse of history for political gains and he is no better than the Palestinian leadership in spreading hatred.

Religious War Has Moved to the Forefront of the Israel-Palestine Conflict  | VICE News

_Yet while both Israeli and Palestinian politicians have been quick to hijack religion for political ends, as the adage goes: "If you play with fire, you get burnt." Sitting in his east Jerusalem study, Dr. Ekrima Sa'eed Sabri, the former grand mufti of Al-Aqsa Mosque, starkly outlines the dangers of the new blend of theology and politics. 

"Politicians are weak and self-interested, people with religious motives are pure," Sabri told VICE News. Behind him is a framed black-and-gold Arabic typography of the 99 names given to God in Islam. "A religious conflict is much stronger than a national one, people will go further because religion is the most important thing [to them]," he warns._​




> The Mufti arrived in Berlin as a personal guest of the Führer after he had precipitated the infamous pogrom against the Jews of Iraq known as the Farhud, Arabic for violent uprising or dispossession. The Mufti came to Berlin with Jewish blood on his hands, a fact barely mentioned in the discussion of the Mufti’s role in the Holocaust. Moreover, the Mufti recruited 20,000 Bosnian Muslims for the SS, the Schutzstaffel, the group that was implementing Hitler’s Final Solution.
> 
> The Farhud was the Arab Kristallnacht, and it remains, to this day, the forgotten pogrom despite the incredible and detailed research of historian Edwin Black. The Farhud was the outcome of a fusion of Arab nationalism with Nazism as cultivated by Nazi propaganda disseminated via broadcasts in Arabic from Berlin. Anyone who thinks that the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic propaganda of the modern mainstream media with their continued mistakes and routine apologies for bias is harmless has no sense of history.
> 
> ...





What makes Netanyahu's posturing any different than the hate mongering of Hamas?  Nothing.  Nothing at all.

*Attacks and anti-Arab bigotry 'more acceptable' in Israel*

*Does Israel teach anti-arab bigotry?*

_Over the last ten years, there have been periodic outbursts of rage over the alleged anti-Semitic nature of Palestinian textbooks. Most of these episodes have been instigated by an Israeli-based organization called the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (aka, the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education).

However, the Center’s conclusions have been corroborated only by other Israeli institutions such as Palestinian Media Watch. And, not surprisingly, almost all independent investigations examining the same issue have come up with very different conclusions.

These non-Zionist sources include The Nation magazine, which published a report on Palestinian textbooks in 2001; the George Eckert Institute for International Textbook Research, reporting in 2002; the Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information, reporting in 2004; and the U.S. State Department Report of 2009. *They all found that Palestinian textbooks did not preach anti-Semitism.*_​
*2012 Survey: A majority supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank*.

_Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.

A majority also explicitly favors discrimination against the state's Arab citizens, a survey shows...

...The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.

A third of the Jewish public wants a law barring Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset and a large majority of 69 percent objects to giving 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank. _

..._Secular Israelis appear to be the least racist - 68 percent of them would not mind having Arab neighbors in their apartment building, 73 percent would not mind Arab students in their children's class and 50 percent believe Arabs should not be discriminated against in admission to workplaces.

The survey indicates that a third to half of Jewish Israelis want to live in a state that practices formal, open discrimination against its Arab citizens. An even larger majority wants to live in an apartheid state if Israel annexes the territories. _​

These are the views that Netanyahu represents and promotes when he makes the sort of statements he made.


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## CMike (Oct 28, 2015)

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Netyanhu was spot on. You are putting words in his mouth that he never said.

Quoting anti-Israel/Jewish books really doesn't help your case. Even Jewish have acted against Jews throughout Jewish history.

Netanyahu's point was clear to me.

This isn't about territory.

This isn't about settlements

This isn't about the "palestinians" having their own state.

This isn't about the Temple Mount.

This is a holy religious war.

The arabs tried to kill all the Jews before they captured the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem in 1967.

The arabs tried to kill all the Jews when they were awarded a tiny sliver of land in 1948.

The arabs tried to kill the Jews before Israel had a state.

The arabs tried to kill all the Jews in the 1930s.

That is the reason that Netanyahu brought up the Grand Mufti's collaboration with Hitler.

The Mufti may not have been responsible for the Holocaust however, he was an active collaborator in it.


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## Coyote (Oct 28, 2015)

CMike said:


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I haven't quoted any anti-Israel/Jewish books.


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## montelatici (Oct 28, 2015)

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Why wouldn't the Christians and Muslims being invaded by European Zionists intent on dispossessing and evicting them resist the invasion?


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## aris2chat (Oct 28, 2015)

Ending a Century of Palestinian Rejectionism


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## Phoenall (Oct 29, 2015)

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 So you don't see the Palestinians as being akin to Nazis even after reading their charters. Don't forget that only about 5% of all Germans were Nazis, while 60% of all muslims are Nazis .


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## Phoenall (Oct 29, 2015)

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 You are trying to because the truth is being told now. He was as much to blame as any Nazi officer that lined the Jews up and chose which ones would die


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## Humanity (Oct 29, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> 60% of all muslims are Nazis


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## Phoenall (Oct 29, 2015)

montelatici said:


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 WHAT INVASION ?


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## Coyote (Oct 29, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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No I do not.  60% of all Muslims are Nazi's?  I'd like to see the data on that claim.


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## Challenger (Oct 29, 2015)

aris2chat said:


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aris2chat said:


> ...They are in Arabic, but go to the library and get copies of his broadcasts.



No need the BBC has copies of the broadcasts and credible translations.


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## Coyote (Oct 29, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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There were many Nazi's and Nazi collaborators involved in the atrocities that marked WW2.  Their crimes and actions are not all equal.  That doesn't mean they were innocent and for some bizarre reason that is what you guys are trying to turn this argument into.  It's isn't about whether the Mufti was innocent of evil - he wanted to kill all the Palestinian Jews.  But he was no Hitler, he was a minor figure in comparison to Hitler and some of his closest collaborators.  Netanyahu flat out lied using made-up quotes that can't be found in any historical records.


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## Challenger (Oct 29, 2015)

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Well actually quite a lot of people, not all of them Palestinians.


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## montelatici (Oct 29, 2015)

The Zionists had announced in writing and in speeches and had demonstrated through facts on the ground, that they intended to go to Palestine and eliminate the non-Jews living there.  Can the leader of a people that are the intended victims, be faulted for wanting the destruction of the people bent on the destruction of his people?


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## Phoenall (Oct 29, 2015)

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 That is the number that follow the teachings of islam explicitly in the koran, it is the number that support the use of terrorism against islams enemies it an attempt at changing their minds. It is the number that support the fight by the Palestinians started by the mufti in 1929 to eliminate the Jews.




Muslim Opinion Polls - Challenging the 'Tiny Minority of Extremists' Myth


 World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans

83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose
NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was “very important for the government” to “apply traditional punishments for crimes such as stoning adulterers.”
And so it goes all the above are Nazi tendencies and there are more in the link provided.


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## aris2chat (Oct 29, 2015)

Leading Palestinian Organization Promotes Nazi-Era Children’s Book on Twitter


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## Phoenall (Oct 29, 2015)

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 He was as much to blame as any of the others that faced the courts in Nuremberg, and he also should have faced the courts and answered for his crimes. You are defending a war criminal that mass murdered Jews on his own admittance, and then ran to Germany were he assisted in the holocaust. You are trying to cover up his part in the holocaust because you don't like the Jews and would rather they did not exist. He was as much a monster as Hitler and should have been put on trial and then hung for his part in the genocide of the Jews. The quotes have been proven to be correct from other sources and still you only believe the histories that meet with you POV and approval. The Jew hatred in the Palestinians all stems from the mufti and his family members that set out to eliminate Judaism from the world at large and teamed up with the Nazis


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## Challenger (Oct 29, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Leading Palestinian Organization Promotes Nazi-Era Children’s Book on Twitter



Promotes? This book is widely available in Palestine? Oh, the report says, "The tweet of the book’s cover and antisemitic message emanated from what is *purportedly *Fatah’s official Twitter account."


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## aris2chat (Oct 29, 2015)

The role of Arabic-language Nazi-era propaganda


Nazi Roots of Palestinian Nationalism - Discover the Networks


The difference between Hamas and the Nazis ⋆ Conservative Firing Line


Palestinians Use Nazi ‘Sieg Heil’ Salute During Fatah Celebration in Lebanon


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## montelatici (Oct 29, 2015)

The Palestinians, of all people, have every right to be anti-Semitic after what the Jews have done and are doing to them.  Does anyone complain that Kosovars are anti-Serbian?


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## montelatici (Oct 29, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> The role of Arabic-language Nazi-era propaganda
> 
> 
> Nazi Roots of Palestinian Nationalism - Discover the Networks
> ...



Gee, anti-invader material how unusual.


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## aris2chat (Oct 29, 2015)

Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World
Jeffrey Herf

Nazi Palestine: The Plans for the Extermination of the Jews in Palestine
Klaus-Michael Mallmann, ‎Martin Cüppers

Islamism and Islam
Bassam Tibi

Nazi Germany and the Arab World 
Francis R. Nicosia

The Secret War for the Middle East: The Influence of Axis ... -
Youssef H. Aboul-Enein, ‎Basil H. Aboul-Enein

The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism: Adolf Hitler and ..
Chuck Morse

The Arabs and the Holocaust: The Arab-Israeli War of ...
Gilbert Achcar

The Death of Judeo-Christianity: Religious Aggression and ...
Lawrence Swaim

The Third Reich and the Palestine Question 
Francis R. Nicosia

Nazis in the Holy Land 1933-1948
Heidemarie Wawrzyn

The Mufti of Jerusalem: Al-Hajj Amin Al-Husayni and the ...
Philip Mattar

Islam and Nazi Germany's War
David Motadel


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## montelatici (Oct 29, 2015)

"Zionist plan for ethnic cleansing"
Dave Alpert

"Oded Yinon Plan"
Israel Shahak

"Zionist Founding Fathers’ Plans for Transfer of the Palestinian Arabs"
Neil Godfrey

"The Weizmann Plan to “Transfer” the Palestinians"
Neil Godfrey

"Planning the terror that created Israel
_The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine"_
Ilan Pappé

"We must expel Arabs and take their place"
 1937 Ben-Gurion letter advocating the expulsion of Palestinians -


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## Humanity (Oct 29, 2015)

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Oh look....

Was that Phoney deflecting again? YEP!

Was that Phoney NOT answering a question again? YEP!

Was that Phoney providing a link in some kind of attempt to support his BS zionut claims? YEP!

So, a question from a member of this forum...

"60% of all Muslims are Nazi's?  I'd like to see the data on that claim."

And Phoney provides a link to some 'opinion poll' that, guess what, has NO mention of the word NAZI in it!

Once a failed neo marxist zionut, ALWAYS a failed neo marxist zionut!


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## Phoenall (Oct 29, 2015)

Humanity said:


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## Phoenall (Oct 29, 2015)

When will you be providing any form of links after asking for 140 times now, you are in no position to complain about anyone are you idiot.


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## Coyote (Oct 29, 2015)

Humanity said:


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Indeed.  All I see is a massive deflection.  Phoenall - what data do you have?


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## Coyote (Oct 29, 2015)

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I think there is a pretty good body of evidence concerning his views including his own writing.


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## Humanity (Oct 29, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> When will you be providing any form of links after asking for 140 times now, you are in no position to complain about anyone are you idiot.



Ok Phoney...

I really have no idea of the 140 links that you are looking for... I guess its that voice in your head again...

However, I will humour you...

Let me know what the 140 links you are looking for or, as the good lord above once said...

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FREAK!


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## Indeependent (Oct 29, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > When will you be providing any form of links after asking for 140 times now, you are in no position to complain about anyone are you idiot.
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Hyperbole is the last refuse of the weak minded.
And when it comes to refuse, refuse is all you spout.


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## Humanity (Oct 29, 2015)

Indeependent said:


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If you want to communicate in English that would really help in making a reply!

Until then....


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## Phoenall (Oct 30, 2015)

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 See the link above that shows opinion polls from all over, and do your homework


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## Phoenall (Oct 30, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > When will you be providing any form of links after asking for 140 times now, you are in no position to complain about anyone are you idiot.
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 The now 141 requests I have made for you to provide any links at all to support your claims over the last 2 weeks. If you want to know go back and read the board, should take you another 2 weeks to answer all the requests. Many are simple because they are numbered so you can see where you have refused to provide links.


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## Humanity (Oct 30, 2015)

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In typical Phoney style, your link shows 'opinions' and does nothing to support your comments! It doesn't even mention the word "Nazi"!

So, another crock of shit post from Phoney!


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## Humanity (Oct 30, 2015)

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So another utter BS post...

Let's make it real easy...

Give me just one claim that I have made that you want a link for!


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## Challenger (Oct 30, 2015)

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That he hated the Zionist project taking over his country is beyond doubt, he was a fervent Palestinian nationalist after all. But did he hate Jewish people just for being Jewish (anti-Semite) or did he hate Jewish people trying to colonise his country (anti-Zionist)? In his old age, did he end up just conflating the two? The Mufti's archive was stolen by Lebanese Phalangists (close allies of Israel) after his death, during Lebanon's civil war so we have no real idea what his writings might reveal. His memoires were subsequently published, edited by Abd al-Karim al-Umar but those who have tried to trace the editor or see the original documents have hit brick walls.

Evidence can be manufactured, remember the famous "Hitler diaries" that managed to fool eminent experts and academics in the 1980's?

It is no co-incidence that most of the negative spin about the Mufti comes from Israeli, pro-Israeli or Right wing Islamophobic sources, and no coincidence that most of the positive spin comes from Muslim admirers of the Mufti.

Was the Mufti as evil as he is depicted? I don't know, but until I see conclusive proof one way or another I will keep an open mind.

I've recently acquired a book that is widely considered "neutral" towards the Mufti, "The Mufti of Jerusalem: Al-Hajj Amin Al-Husayni and the Palestinian National Movement" by Phillip Mattar (I note aris2ochat recommends it in #574); I'll let you know what I think when I've read it.


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## Phoenall (Oct 30, 2015)

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 Read back and find out, you can start by proving the claims you made about what I posted


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## Humanity (Oct 30, 2015)

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Why am I going to prove claims that you posted?

Thats YOUR job Phoney...

You don't understand how this works do you!


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## Phoenall (Oct 30, 2015)

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 You don't it seems as I ask you for evidence of your claims and you don't produce it at any time. The ball is in your court to prove your false claims.       So 142 now as I am asking you to prove your claims  AGAIN


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## Humanity (Oct 30, 2015)

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> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Ok Phoney...

Last chance...

Give me an example of what you actually want a link for...

Otherwise shut the fuck up you trolling freak!


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## Phoenall (Oct 30, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...







Well start by producing a link to substantiate your claim above, your word is not good enough as you are the proven troll


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## pbel (Oct 30, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




There once was
A guy named Phoney,
Everything he posted was

Full of Baloney

He squealed like
A pig when
Caught in

Lies, He danced
In a jig defending
His cries,

An asylum protects from
The truth he defies,...
That's why

We call him Phoney Baloney!


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## CMike (Oct 30, 2015)

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


For one reason is because it never happened.


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## montelatici (Oct 30, 2015)

CMike said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > CMike said:
> ...



Do you live in an alternate universe?  Believe it or not, people from Europe of the Jewish religion went to Palestine and evicted the Christians and Muslims living there and declared their own state on the land where previously Christians and Jews were living.


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## Humanity (Oct 30, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



So you can't give me one single link that you have asked for?

What a trolling freak you are Phoney!


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## CMike (Oct 30, 2015)

montelatici said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



It seems that you are in a different.

That hasn't happened on earth.


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## montelatici (Oct 30, 2015)

Cognitive dissonance is a terrible affliction.  Denying the existence of Israel is truly an astonishing position to take.


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## Phoenall (Oct 30, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...






 LINK proving your claim


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## Humanity (Oct 30, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Which claim troll?

Seems you fail again!

A link to which claim Phoney?

Come on your troll freak...


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## Phoenall (Oct 30, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...






 The one you keep making, 4 times on this one post you have made it without providing any evidence to prove your LIE


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## Humanity (Oct 30, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



This really IS the last time of asking Phoney...

What the fuck are you going on about?

What "LIE" do you consider I have told?


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## Phoenall (Oct 31, 2015)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...








Quite a few actually, but you can start with your claims that you are not authorised to make. You are now on the spot and need to alter your attitude or be ridiculed by everyone when you make your false claims because you cant answer the points raised.


 As I said 4 times you made the same false claim and LIED so why wont you provide the evidence that you base your false claims and LIES on ?


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## Humanity (Oct 31, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> claims that you are not authorised to make



Not authorised by whom?

YOU?

Don't make me laugh you freak!


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## Humanity (Oct 31, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



As I said Phoney, it was your last chance to tell me where I had lied...

You failed!

Now, stop trolling you freak and see if you can make a real contribution to this forum!


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## docmauser1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Really Bibi? Really?  I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!
> 
> Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
> 
> ...


Funny how palistanians always want to con others into fighting their wars for them.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Penelope said:


> The Grand Muffit was used by the Zionist British to fight the Turks  and he along with Palestinian armies fought the Turks, and then finds out that it was already in the Plans to give Palestine to the Zionist. He was also upset with the British, who back stabbed him and he did not want the Zionist there, and Hitler knew just what he meant, as they were taking over Berlin. Everyone says Hitler was anti Semitic. The Arabs are more Semitic than the Russian Zionist ever thought of being.


Funny bullish!


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## docmauser1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Coyote said:


> The Mufti was a hateful, antisemitic man - but he was insignificant in the scope of Hitler's agenda.


Like a small-time aspiring thug of the Hitler epoch?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Ravi said:


> Hitler didn't need convincing to destroy the Jews. Netenyahu needs a good swift kick in the ass.


Interesting. What would a Netaniyaho vs our dear Ravi hand-to-hand be?


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## Penelope (Oct 31, 2015)

docmauser1 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > The Grand Muffit was used by the Zionist British to fight the Turks  and he along with Palestinian armies fought the Turks, and then finds out that it was already in the Plans to give Palestine to the Zionist. He was also upset with the British, who back stabbed him and he did not want the Zionist there, and Hitler knew just what he meant, as they were taking over Berlin. Everyone says Hitler was anti Semitic. The Arabs are more Semitic than the Russian Zionist ever thought of being.
> ...



dispute it. Zionist begun their movement before WWI. When I see how corrupt yous have been in entirely, it makes me ill, your plotting and planning, and covert activities to control the events. Hitler was just another pawn in the Zionist scheme.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 31, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Sorry, the right wing *Nazis and Fascists* hate Jews.  Leftists hate Zionists.


Funny. They were, actually, leftists, members of the national-socialist workers' party. hehe So, leftists + leftists = montelatici, the rest are palistanian "saudi sheikhs", of course.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 31, 2015)

Penelope said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


yous have me lost in entirely ...


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## CMike (Oct 31, 2015)

Sound familiar?

Egyptian TV host, historian agree: burning Jews the solution


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## montelatici (Oct 31, 2015)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, the right wing *Nazis and Fascists* hate Jews.  Leftists hate Zionists.
> ...



Communism and Socialism are internationalist ideologies.  National Socialism is a contradiction in terms.  There is nothing "leftist" about National Socialism or Fascism, from where National Socialism came.  But, we can hear it from the horse's mouth.

"In Russian Bolshevism we must see the attempt undertaken by the Jews in the twentieth century to achieve world domination. Just as in other epochs they strove to reach the same goal by other, though inwardly related processes. Their endeavor lies profoundly rooted in their essential nature. Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent, and to stop the inner contamination of our blood, in order that the forces of the nation thus set free can be thrown in to safeguard our nationality, and thus can prevent a repetition of the recent catastrophes down to the most distant future."

Adolf Hitler

But then the right-wing nuts that post here are uneducated loons.


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## Synthaholic (Nov 6, 2015)




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## CMike (Nov 8, 2015)

Link?


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