# Outlandish: Holocaust "denier's" jail term upped



## USArmyRetired (Sep 12, 2010)

Free Speech allows one to burn bibles and burn the American flag and draw images of Muhammad and curse Christianity but don't deny the alleged holocaust. This is outlandish that a thought can land you in jail. Americans will soon be victim to this when questioning the Holocaust. 

Holocaust denier's jail term upped - General News - Austrian Times Online News - English Newspaper

An infamous neo-Nazi has had his prison sentence extended over controversial statements in two books.

Gerd Honsik was sentenced to two years in prison by Vienna Criminal Court judge Andreas Böhm yesterday (Fri).

The 68-year-old Austrian doubted the existence of gas chambers at Nazi era death camps in his books "Der Juden Drittes Reich" (The Jews&#8217;s Third Reich) and "Schelm und Scheusal" (Prankster and Monster).

Honsik was convicted of breaking Austrian laws against spreading Nazi ideology in his book "Freispruch für Hitler?"...

*Not a Homeland forumn issue, moving thread to Europe forum*


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## xotoxi (Sep 12, 2010)

USArmyRetired said:


> Free Speech allows one to burn bibles and burn the American flag and draw images of Muhammad and curse Christianity but don't deny the alleged holocaust.



Since when does Free Speech apply to Austria?

I can see why people call you USArmy_Retard_.


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## Baruch Menachem (Sep 12, 2010)

This happened in Austria.    They have different rules there.

In many european countries the display of Nazi emblems is against the law.

Personally, I would be worried about someone who thinks Hannibal Lector or Ted Bundy to be a hero.   I don't know about jail, but they defiantly would belong in a state hospital.


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## William Joyce (Sep 12, 2010)

Since they can't prove the "Holocaust" ever happened, they have to throw anyone who questions it in jail.

Funny, if something's true, that usually stands by itself!


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## xotoxi (Sep 12, 2010)

William Joyce said:


> Since they can't prove the "Holocaust" ever happened...



Please expand...

(This should be interesting)


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## Tom Clancy (Sep 12, 2010)

xotoxi said:


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I'll bring the Popcorn and beer out, preference?


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## The Rabbi (Sep 12, 2010)

xotoxi said:


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Wait for a bunch of conspiracy theory crapola.
The Holocaust is among the best attested events in history, with literally millions of documents, photographs, video, and personal memoirs on all sides.
It takes an act of sheer anti Semitism to deny it.  No wonder Germans want to put such people in jail.  They're so crazy they belong in some kind of institution.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 12, 2010)

The Holohoax is the biggest fraud in the history of the earth.

In many countries in europe a person can go to prison for questioning the validity of the Holohoax myth.

The question is: "What are the officials trying to hide"?

If the Holohoax is such an iron clad case.

Then they should welcome any and all examination and review of this alleged historical event.


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## xotoxi (Sep 12, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


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Newcastle Brown and Reddenbacher.


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## Baruch Menachem (Sep 12, 2010)

What bugs me about these crazies is the attitude of "Of course it didn't happen, but what a damn good idea."


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## Ozmar (Sep 12, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> The Holohoax is the biggest fraud in the history of the earth.
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> In many countries in europe a person can go to prison for questioning the validity of the Holohoax myth.
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If a well documented event like the holocaust can be denied, I suppose the rest of history is also bunk.


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## xotoxi (Sep 12, 2010)

Ozmar said:


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There are crazy loons who believe that the events of 9 years ago didn't happen...even though everyone saw it clearly and live-action.


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## AllieBaba (Sep 13, 2010)

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I don't know what more proof there could be. There are eyewitness accounts, the accounts of the liberators, the accounts of Germans, the records of the Nazis, photographic evidence, film, archaeological evidence...I don't think there's any type of proof that isn't available.

I could see how denying the holocaust could be considered a crime. Because denial of the holocaust isn't ignorance - it's a lie perpetrated in order to incite hatred and  violence against Jews and other people. As such, it comes under that handing heading of "hate speech". In this country, anyway.


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## Luissa (Sep 13, 2010)

National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)

    § 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a &#8211; 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years imprisonment.[14]

    § 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[15]
Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


He had to know he was breaking a law, and could face jail time.


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## Dr Grump (Sep 13, 2010)

USArmyRetired said:


> Free Speech allows one to burn bibles and burn the American flag and draw images of Muhammad and curse Christianity but don't deny the alleged holocaust. This is outlandish that a thought can land you in jail. Americans will soon be victim to this when questioning the Holocaust.



The 'alleged' Holocaust?? How quaint and ill-formed...


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## The Rabbi (Sep 13, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> The Holohoax is the biggest fraud in the history of the earth.
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> In many countries in europe a person can go to prison for questioning the validity of the Holohoax myth.
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People like you are so crazy they belong in some kind of instutution.  Prison is an acceptable one.


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## DiveCon (Sep 13, 2010)

xotoxi said:


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stranger still, is how many believe both


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## Sunni Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Luissa said:


> National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
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> § 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a  3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years imprisonment.[14]
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Being forced to accept the Holohoax Myth in todays europe.

Is NO different than in ancient Rome where the citizens were forced to believe in Zeus or some other myth under penalty of law.


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## The Rabbi (Sep 13, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


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Except that the existence of Zeus wasn't among the best attested events of all time.
FAIL.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 13, 2010)

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So you believe that Zeus is real!!!   

No wonder you accept the Holohoax Myth as a real event.


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## DiveCon (Sep 13, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


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thats what you got from what he said????

you lack reading comprehension skills


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## The Rabbi (Sep 13, 2010)

DiveCon said:


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Actually he lacks more than 2 functioning brain cells.  He can't be a Sunni.  I've known Sunnis and they are generally smart people.  This one must have gotten dropped on his head.


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## DiveCon (Sep 13, 2010)

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if i remember correctly, he is a late life convert


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## Luissa (Sep 13, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


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One can be proven easily. You are comparing apples to a car.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 13, 2010)

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I agree with you Luissa

The existence of Zeus is easier to believe.

Than the outlandish fantasy call the Holocaust.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 13, 2010)

The Rabbi said:


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As a professional psychologist I can assure you that non-belief in the so called Holocaust is NOT listed by the APA as a mental disorder.


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## DiveCon (Sep 13, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


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it SHOULD be

but then it would likely be classified as living in a state of denial of reality


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## Sunni Man (Sep 13, 2010)

A couple of hundred years from now.

Holocaust Museums will no longer open for lack of attendence.

And people who insist there was this absurd pseudo event nicknamed the Holocaust.

Will be thought of as odd and grouped together with the flat earth belief people.


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## manifold (Sep 13, 2010)

Only a serious tard would deny the holocaust.  But I still don't believe it should be a crime, anywhere.


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## The Rabbi (Sep 13, 2010)

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I think it falls under the larger category of delusional thinking.
And I don't think you can get a professional psychologist license at WalMart.  So I doubt you are one.


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## germanguy (Sep 13, 2010)

My oh my,

this subject is like the Hydra...

To my american friends one has to explain, that there is a little difference in the understanding of what a free society should and can accept by it´s citizens.

In Anglo-Saxon societies a citizen has the right to express a lot of very radical things. Limit is mostly the penal code. This ensures, that a lot of radicals are loud and nasty, but they do not throw bombs (at least the idea). Therefore, only if you actively threaten a jew i.e. you will get in trouble. 

In Germany, after the war, the fathers and mothers of the Basic Law, our constitution, formulated as Article 1 

Article 1 GG

(1) Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.

(2) The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world.

(3) The following basic rights shall bind the legislature, the executive, and the judiciary as directly applicable law.

Later on, the Constitutional Court has filled this article with life.
So, as the dignity of man is inconsistent with the death penalty, torture and life-long sentences without the chance of a return to a free life, it was also stated, that also the freedom of speech is limited by this "dignity of man". 
Having doubts about the Holocaust may be repulsive or at least strange, but it is not seen as a crime. Denying it by using platforms adressed to a larger audience can change this. 
By doing so, most Germans believe, that this is already a kind of violence and considered already as a kind of violence. 

So, while Americans start to draw a line later, Germans do it earlier. Perhaps if you experienced Nazism already you start to become suspicious much earlier.

regards
ze germanguy

Germany simply has decided to draw a line in this case much earlier


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## Sunni Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for the post Germanguy


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## germanguy (Sep 18, 2010)

If I see what you, Sunni Man, has written and stated around here, I do not know for what you thank me. 

Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.

regards
ze germanguy


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## Sunni Man (Sep 18, 2010)

germanguy said:


> If I see what you, Sunni Man, has written and stated around here, I do not know for what you thank me.


Because, even if I don't agree with Germany's stance on this issue.

I just wanted to Thank You for telling the other side from a German citizens perspective.


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## Colin (Sep 18, 2010)

It never ceases to make me laugh. Muslims who deny the Holocaust...one of the most factually recorded events of history...yet believe every word written in a book by a bloke who heard voices in his head. Says a lot, doesn't it!


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## Sunni Man (Sep 18, 2010)

It take's MORE of a leap of "Faith" to believe in the so called Holocaust than to believe in any religion.


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## global (Sep 18, 2010)

I was telling my Librarian the other day to put Schindler's list on the Comedy or Fiction section...it's a nice little fairy tale, but the Jew's are getting rather predictable with their holohoax...


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## Naz1Mick (Sep 18, 2010)

There was no Holocau$t It is a Lie, made up by the juden!


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## global (Sep 18, 2010)

Baruch Menachem said:


> In many european countries the display of Nazi emblems is against the law.



I've never understood how people can be so butthurt over a symbol.  Wasn't it an old Buddhist symbol that originated in India or Tibet or something?


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## blu (Sep 18, 2010)

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not much for free speech are you?


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## blu (Sep 18, 2010)

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this was a pretty weak rebuttal


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## blu (Sep 18, 2010)

when people 'deny the holocaust' what exactly do they mean? are there people who really don't think there were concentration camps? or that people didn't die there or that jews werent heavily targetted along with catholics, gays, etc? what exactly are they denying? I usually find conspiracy theories interesting, but this one has always been a bit too out there for me.


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## blu (Sep 18, 2010)

global said:


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yea its been used in tens of cultures


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## blu (Sep 18, 2010)

Colin said:


> It never ceases to make me laugh. Muslims who deny the Holocaust...one of the most factually recorded events of history...yet believe every word written in a book by a bloke who heard voices in his head. Says a lot, doesn't it!



ummm you realize every religion basically believes in a person who heard voices in his head right? jesus, joseph smith, and so on....


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## The Rabbi (Sep 18, 2010)

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You need to be in  padded cell right next to his!  It has nothing to do with free speech.  It has to do with insanity.  People who deny the Holocaust occurred as provably insane.  Insane people belong in an institution.


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## blu (Sep 18, 2010)

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most of the world's population would be locked up if denying reality got you sent to the loony bin


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## The Rabbi (Sep 18, 2010)

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Most of the world's population does not deny the Holocaust occurred.  Only sick assholes like some posters here, yourself included, do that.
And they need to be medicated.


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## blu (Sep 18, 2010)

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lol. what a dumbass you are. many times in this same thread I talked about how ridiculous the idea of denying the holocaust is and my free speech post was about the fact that you want to shut people up who deny it, which is fully in their rights. too bad you are too stupid to realize all of this so I have to spell it out for you.


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

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When you defend Holocaust denial you enable it.
FAIL.


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## DiveCon (Sep 19, 2010)

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he's not defending the denial
he is defending the right for asswipes to prove they are asswipes


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

DiveCon said:


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That's enabling it.


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## DiveCon (Sep 19, 2010)

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its enabling them to show what they are so they can be ridiculed for it


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

DiveCon said:


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So where are there still Holocaust deniers?
It is because merely ridiculing people does not destroy their views.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 19, 2010)

The Rabbi said:


> Most of the world's population does not deny the Holocaust occurred.  Only sick assholes like some posters here, yourself included, do that.
> And they need to be medicated.


Spoken like a true ZioNazi

Rabbi, why aren't you living in IsraHell with your 4th Reich buddies???


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


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You need to be medicated.  And committed.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 19, 2010)

xotoxi said:


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Well, I was going to say the same thing, but I figured I'd scroll down to see if I had been beaten to the punch.  

I think Free Speech is better, but I can understand why Austria might be a little sensitive on the manner of spreading Nazi Propaganda.



> Honsik was convicted of breaking Austrian laws against spreading Nazi ideology in his book "Freispruch für Hitler?" (Acquittal for Hitler?) and sentenced to a year and a half in prison in 1992, but fled to Spain, where he gained a reputation as a leading far-right publicist.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 19, 2010)

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Exactly the response I expected from you Dr. Mengele, ah, I mean Rabbi.


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## Ringel05 (Sep 19, 2010)

Dr Grump said:


> USArmyRetired said:
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Agent Orange Syndrome......


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

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OK.  Medicated, committed, and put in a padded cell.


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## blu (Sep 19, 2010)

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nope, just like you don't become gay when you defend gay rights and I don't get a lifetime of free weed when I say it should be decriminalized


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## blu (Sep 19, 2010)

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your statement implies that every holocaust denier has been ridiculed about it. do you think this is true?


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## blu (Sep 19, 2010)

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I haven't seen anyone look as dumb as you do in this thread in a long time


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## Zack (Sep 19, 2010)

The Rabbi said:


> Wait for a bunch of conspiracy theory crapola.
> The Holocaust is among the best attested events in history, with literally millions of documents, photographs, video, and personal memoirs on all sides.
> It takes an act of sheer anti Semitism to deny it.  No wonder Germans want to put such people in jail.  They're so crazy they belong in some kind of institution.



Then you should have no problem presenting a German wartime document proving a gassing of Jews took place.


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

Zack said:


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Those are in abundance.


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## Zack (Sep 19, 2010)

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Good.  Present _one_.


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

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Google is your friend.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 19, 2010)

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Translation: I can not come up with one because it doesn't exist.


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## The Rabbi (Sep 19, 2010)

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Medicated, committed, strait jacketed with no access to the INternet.


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## Zack (Sep 23, 2010)

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More dodging.


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## islam4ever (Sep 23, 2010)

The word Holocaust has been stolen.

The true Holocaust is to do with Africans not Jews.

I do not deny that Germans gassed Jews, but I view with disgust the exclusive use of the word holocaust.

A holocaust is an adjective, not Jew-specific.

I support the USA for killing the evil Serbians who tried to do a holocaust on Muslims.

I support Kashmiri Muslims defending themselves from a Holocaust by cow-worshipping Hindus.

Also I support Muslims in the USA from a Holocaust that the Tea Party are planning.

Allah hu akbar!

May Allah support pigs in the war against pig eaters !!!


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## DiveCon (Sep 23, 2010)

islam4ever said:


> The word Holocaust has been stolen.
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what about the Muslims that did a holocaust on the Serbians?


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## islam4ever (Sep 23, 2010)

DiveCon said:


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No, the Muslims executed Serb holocausters. This was OK.


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## DiveCon (Sep 23, 2010)

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what a fucking joke
it was Serbian LAND dipshit


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## Godboy (Sep 23, 2010)

islam4ever said:


> The word Holocaust has been stolen.
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Are all muslims dumb enough to try and define a word they dont know the meaning of? Theres a difference between the definition of genocide and holocaust you dumb fucking islamotard.

Holocaust is used to describe the jew situation for one reason only.... because holocaust means to "to destroy by fire". The Nazis incinerated hundreds, and even thousands of jews in a single day. Were the Africans destroyed by fire? If not, you probably should just use the word genocide.

Maybe if you put down that ridiculous Qur'an and spent some time reading a worthwhile book, you might not look so stupid in the future.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 23, 2010)

Godboy said:


> [
> Holocaust is used to describe the jew situation for one reason only.... because holocaust means to "to destroy by fire". The Nazis incinerated hundreds, and even thousands of jews in a single day.


The Nazis didn't kill any Jews or anyone else by means of fire.

That's just more Holohoax nonsense to try and keep the myth going.


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## Godboy (Sep 23, 2010)

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Oh, dumbass muslim number 2 has questions now too? No one ever said they died by fire dipshit, though i have no doubt there must have been some at some point. The jews were killed, then they were destroyed by fire. Its a really easy concept. Why is it hard fo or you?


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## Colin (Sep 25, 2010)

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Are you really as stupid as you are trying to make out? Ever heard of the Holocaust archives held in the North German town of Bad Arolsen. Official Nazi files, which make up one of the largest Holocaust archives in the world, are more than 15 miles long and hold up to 50 million documents, some seized by the Allies as they liberated concentration camps.

The archive was formerly only used as a tracing service for lost relatives, but in 2006 the German government agreed to open it up to historians and researchers. Must be bad news for you ant-semite holocaust deniers.



> The archive, known formally as the International Tracing Service (ITS), comprises meticulous Nazi documentation of death camp inmates, conscription workers and others. The records were seized by the Allied forces after the German regime fell in 1945; they also include postwar records the Allies kept on resettling refugees.
> 
> They have been central to people searching for loved ones after World War II, especially for Jews whose relatives were sent to Nazi concentration camps, where many millions died.
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## Ozmar (Sep 25, 2010)

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The bodies of Muslims were dunked in vats of pig blood for the same reason, but the Muslims whined and said they would go to eternal damnation over allah's creation: The pig.

Women's equality, yo!


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## Colin (Sep 25, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


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Such moronic denial in the face of overwhelming evidence and testament simply positions you as a Jew hater. I thought you were better than that. Clearly I was wrong. Go peddle your anti-semite garbage with the rest of the lowlifes and scumbags on something like Stormfront. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms...muslim or not!


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## Douger (Sep 25, 2010)

Pearl harbor
Holohoax
Gulf of Tonkin
USS Liberty
PNAC
911

Nexxxxxxxt ?


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## islam4ever (Sep 25, 2010)

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There are many theories about holocaust.

This is a forum for debate.

Sunni Man debates a point and you get emotional. This is a sign of the weakness of your position.

The real Holocaust is what USA did to Iraq, since the facts are undeniable. Also what the Israelians are doing to Palestine is a Holocaust.


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## Colin (Sep 25, 2010)

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Ah yes. Another Jew hater who can't see the wood for the trees. There is no debate arsehole! The facts are there. Photographic. Testimonial. Documents from Hitler's government. You just carry on denying it. I wouldn't expect a muslim to do anything but.

And just for your information, this thread is about the WW2 holocaust. Wanna talk about any others go make a fucking thread!


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 25, 2010)

The holocaust was real, it was catastrophically immense, and it is thoroughly and carefully documented.  

So none of these points are open for any debate.  What is open for debate is why anyone would question these points.  That answer is that such people are either woefully ignorant, mentally feeble, or intentionally malignant.

Every one of you deniers here fall into one of those three categories.  No excuses, amigos.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 25, 2010)

No room for debate exists.  The matter of its existence, its immensity, and its causes are fully, carefully, and objectively documented.  The only reason to debate is why the deniers deny.


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## Sunni Man (Sep 25, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> No room for debate exists.  The matter of its existence, its immensity, and its causes are fully, carefully, and objectively documented.  The only reason to debate is why the deniers deny.


As with all wars, the winners write the history.

Hence, it is a one sided view.

To say there is NO rooom for debate is idiotic.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 25, 2010)

Your comment is silly, Sunni Man.  

Yes, holocaust history has been written by the scholars, among others, of the only informed democracies in history committed to freedom of the press and expression.  So, once again, there is nothing to debate about the Holocaust.  The story has been completely and fully explored and vetted.  There is only the denial by the deniers.

We are going to debate here the reasons for the non-debate.  The real issue is that you hate the Jews and the state of Israel.  Get over it.  They are going nowhere, period.  The US, even with Obama, is not going to let the state of Israel be even remotely threatened by Israel's enemies.


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## Colin (Sep 25, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > No room for debate exists.  The matter of its existence, its immensity, and its causes are fully, carefully, and objectively documented.  The only reason to debate is why the deniers deny.
> ...



Idiot! By such a statement you deny the existence of the millions of archived documents from the Nazis themselves. Those held in Germany. The Russians have also released documents held by them. As I said there is NO fucking debate! And certainly not with those who are Jew haters!


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## Sunni Man (Sep 25, 2010)

Once again, I DO NOT hate the Jews.

They are a wonderful, clever, and inventive people.

And I totally respect their beautiful religion of Judiasm.

But yes, I do have an issue with the Zionist's who rule the terrorist base camp called Isreal.


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## DiveCon (Sep 25, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > No room for debate exists.  The matter of its existence, its immensity, and its causes are fully, carefully, and objectively documented.  The only reason to debate is why the deniers deny.
> ...


there is no room to debate, water is wet
if you deny it, then you are seriously fucked up


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 25, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> Once again, I DO NOT hate the Jews.
> 
> They are a wonderful, clever, and inventive people.
> 
> ...



Thank you for that.

The Holocaust happened in all of its awful immensity, and it will take centuries to fully describe the horror of a people and the degradation of the most civilized nation in the world.  OK, enough of that.

Why exactly do you resent "the terrorist base camp" of the Zionists who rule Israel?


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## The Rabbi (Sep 25, 2010)

islam4ever said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



You clearly need to be medicated.
At the very least educated.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

Godboy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



The eyewitnesses themselves said it.  They said the SS threw children alive into the incineration pits.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

Colin said:


> Zack said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



Show the Nazi documents that prove Jews are to gassed at Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Auschwitz, Chelmno, Stutoff, and Majdanek.  You can't.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> The holocaust was real, it was catastrophically immense, and it is thoroughly and carefully documented.
> 
> So none of these points are open for any debate.  What is open for debate is why anyone would question these points.  That answer is that such people are either woefully ignorant, mentally feeble, or intentionally malignant.
> 
> Every one of you deniers here fall into one of those three categories.  No excuses, amigos.



People died from disease, malnutrition, and overwork.  But no Jews were murdered in any gas chamber.  Feel free to prove that one was using a Nazi document.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> Your comment is silly, Sunni Man.
> 
> Yes, holocaust history has been written by the scholars, among others, of* the only informed democracies in history committed to freedom of the press and expression. * So, once again, there is nothing to debate about the Holocaust.  The story has been completely and fully explored and vetted.  There is only the denial by the deniers.
> 
> We are going to debate here the reasons for the non-debate.  The real issue is that you hate the Jews and the state of Israel.  Get over it.  They are going nowhere, period.  The US, even with Obama, is not going to let the state of Israel be even remotely threatened by Israel's enemies.



No, you're wrong.  Revisionists are put in jail for "Holocaust denial" in Europe, have been assaulted and even killed.  They are also socially ostracized.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

Colin said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Then show the Nazi documents that prove an extermination program.


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## GHook93 (Oct 19, 2010)

William Joyce said:


> Since they can't prove the "Holocaust" ever happened,


LOL, get your facts right douche bag, there is more evidence on the Holocaust then any other event in history. Its so proven that they toss scum bags like you in jail in Europe for being dumb enough to deny the undeniable!


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Once again, I DO NOT hate the Jews.
> ...



Those "horrors" you speak of in the "Holocaust" photos are of typhus victims, and not of anyone that was gassed.   Several of those photos are also cropped, forged. or manipulated.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

DiveCon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



If there's no room for debate, why are you in this thread?


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

Godboy said:


> islam4ever said:
> 
> 
> > The word Holocaust has been stolen.
> ...



And why is the focus almost exclusively on Jewish suffering and not the suffering of non Jews?  What about the Germans that died in the Dresden bombing?  What about the Germans that died in the camps after the war set up by the Allies?  Why are Jews so important?


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



The National Socialists were accused of several other murder methods including gassing with diesel engines, hot steam, electrocution, burning Jews alive, machine gunning Jews to death, lethal injections, quicklime, vacuum chambers, etc.  All of these claims are false and nothing more than the fruit of propaganda.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> William Joyce said:
> 
> 
> > Since they can't prove the "Holocaust" ever happened,
> ...



You have no material or documentary evidence of gassing or an extermination program.  The story rests on eyewitnesses and forced confessions.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

Zack is simply a troll who can prove nothing against the incontrovertible fact that the Holocaust was real and occured as described in mainstream histories.

I sent some of his stuff off just now to a history professor friend of mine at the U.  He collects this type of denial.


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## GHook93 (Oct 19, 2010)

Zack said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> > Zack said:
> ...



i have a better idea: Why not you go fuck yourself! Why would anyone waste any time doing that?

It's been so overly proven that its insulting to even request a person has to prove it!


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## Sunni Man (Oct 19, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> William Joyce said:
> 
> 
> > Since they can't prove the "Holocaust" ever happened,
> ...


No, they put people in jail because they are afraid that the Holohoax Myth will be exposed for the outright fraud that it is.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

Sunni Man, I believe in free speech, I don't believe people should be jailed for telling lies about the holocaust being a myth, so that the light of the truth shines forth against the darkness of denial.


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## britishbulldog (Oct 19, 2010)

Holocaust deniers should be executed. Which is why we should nuke Iran; they all deny it there.



USArmyRetired said:


> Free Speech allows one to burn bibles and burn the American flag and draw images of Muhammad and curse Christianity but don't deny the alleged holocaust. This is outlandish that a thought can land you in jail. Americans will soon be victim to this when questioning the Holocaust.
> 
> Holocaust denier's jail term upped - General News - Austrian Times Online News - English Newspaper
> 
> ...


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> Zack is simply a troll who can prove nothing against the incontrovertible fact that the Holocaust was real and occured as described in mainstream histories.
> 
> I sent some of his stuff off just now to a history professor friend of mine at the U.  He collects this type of denial.



Well, mainstream historians put far too much stock in eyewitness testimonies, which in this case, are full of contradictions (i.e. they can't agree on the number of Zyklon B openings) and technical absurdities (i.e. collecting fat from burning corpses to use as fuel).  They also ignore the hierarchy of evidentiary value (and it is pretty universal) which places material evidence at the top (which has the highest value), followed by documents (which have intermediate value), and last by testimonies (which have the lowest value).  Where is most of the "evidence" for the "Holocaust" concentrated?  That's right - the testimonies and "confessions" of National Socialists (which were brought about by torture [i.e. sleep deprivation, physical abuse]).  You have no smoking gun in either material or evidentiary form, and you know it.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> Zack said:
> 
> 
> > Colin said:
> ...



It has _not _been proven.  If this matter can be brought to a (fair) court, you would be defeated by the revisionists.

Since this thread is a waste of time for you, leave.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

Nope, Zach and Sunni Man, the histories are clear and convincing with contemporary records and other evidence, besides the interviews.  There is no question of what happened and the extent of what happened.  So keep posting for all of us who do know better so that we can have fun here.


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## Sunni Man (Oct 19, 2010)

All I would like to see is an open discussion by historians and scholars concerning the so called Holocaust.

With out calling people anti-semitic and nazi for discussing the event.

In every other historical event; Alamo, Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg, Tet, etc

There has always been a lively debate between historians, scholars, and academics on various aspects of the event.

Except the so called Holocaust.

There is NO debate or questioning allowed or tolerated.

Which brings up the question: Why? Is there something to hide??


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

The discussion is open to critical thinking.  What is not open to question is (1) that it happened, and (2) that it happened to such an awful, catastrophic extent.  What is not open is a re-examination of the contemporary evidence.

What you can do is bring new evidence to the debate that clearly limits the catastrophe and its effects.

No one has ever done that.


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## Sunni Man (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> The discussion is open to critical thinking.  What is not open to question is (1) that it happened, and (2) that it happened to such an awful, catastrophic extent.  What is not open is a re-examination of the contemporary evidence.
> 
> What you can do is bring new evidence to the debate that clearly limits the catastrophe and its effects.
> 
> No one has ever done that.


Many people have tried but are instantly labeled as anti semitic or nazis.

For any historian or scholar to question even the smallest detail of the so called Holocaust is career suicide.

Which basically leaves the Holocaust unexamined by modern historians.

The alleged event took place over 65 years ago. 

So critical examination is way over due and sorely needed.


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## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The discussion is open to critical thinking.  What is not open to question is (1) that it happened, and (2) that it happened to such an awful, catastrophic extent.  What is not open is a re-examination of the contemporary evidence.
> ...



The Turkish Muhammadan denies his role in the genocide of 2 million Armenians.   If you do not deny the Armenian holocaust in Turkey, you go to jail. 

Maybe, if you focused more on lifting your backward Medieval ass out of the Middle Ages, Arabs and Muslims wouldn't be the laughing stock of the world


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

Until the Muslims on the wack denial patrol get straightened out, this nonsense continues.


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## MikeK (Oct 19, 2010)

What happened in Germany during the rise of the Third Reich is correctly referred to as a pogrom.  But in using that proper term one necessarily refers to a number of victim categories, including Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, habitual criminals, the insane and hopelessly disabled, disloyal Germans, communists and Catholics, all of whom were eventually identified, arrested and sent to concentration camps.  

But Professor Norman Finkelstein, himself a Jew whose parents survived the pogrom, explains in his controversial book, *The Holocaust Industry,* that the term _Holocaust_ was adopted by Zionists to achieve the obvious and specific purpose of implicitly assigning exclusive ownership of the exceptional victim status imparted by the Nazi pogrom to Jews.  

The effort has been undeniably successful because the word _holocaust_ is now capitalized in common usage and is universally associated with Jews and their status as victims.  The world has effectively forgotten that it was not only Jews who suffered in the Nazi pogrom.  

Professor Finkelstein, who now is popularly denounced by Zionists as a "self-hating Jew," goes on to explain how the so-called _Holocaust_ is being perpetuated by a surreptitiously active and exceptionally effective public relations campaign which maintains _Holocaust_ museums in nearly every major city in the developed world, including three in Manhattan, one of which is taxpayer funded.   For a list of these museums, go here: Holocaust Museums


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

Professor Finkelstein peddles horse crap for notoriety.

This is something the wacks on the far left and the far right try to do all the time: create new definitions so they can recreate "reality."

Peddle it elsewhere, MikeK.  No buyers here.


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## DiveCon (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> Professor Finkelstein peddles horse crap for notoriety.
> 
> This is something the wacks on the far left and the far right try to do all the time: create new definitions so they can recreate "reality."
> 
> Peddle it elsewhere, MikeK.  No buyers here.


WOW you actually said something negative about some on the left

thats a first


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## Sunni Man (Oct 19, 2010)

Professor Finkelstein is a brave patrioitic America who risks his life daily by standing up to the evil ZOG cabal that has take over our country.


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## MikeK (Oct 19, 2010)

Living in contemporary America with a German last name is meaningless and irrelevant.  But I can assure that this was not so during the War years and for awhile thereafter.  And the main reason why many German/Americans came to wish their last names were Smith or Jones are some of the things we heard and read about what the Germans did to the Jews.  We heard it on the radio, read it in the newspapers, heard it discussed by our parents and their friends and the ultimate effect was to quietly wish we were Irish or Italian or anything other than German.  

I grew up believing that Germans were innately sadistic people and the only reason my paternal grandparents weren't like that is because they became Americans.  I actually had that worked out in my mind.  

Among other incredibly cruel things I believed the Germans actually boiled Jews in big vats so to render the fat from their bodies to make soap with.  I believed they stripped the skin from Jews and used their tattooed skin to make lampshades.  I believed these things throughout my childhood, throughout my teens and twenties and well into my thirties, which is when I first began hearing that the soap and lampshade stories were myths and those things never happened.  Soap Story

The point I'm making here, and which is referenced in the article, is when you find out there really is no Santa Claus it is natural to wonder about the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, the Hallowe'en Witch and a lot of other things you've been led to believe.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

Sunni Man said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The discussion is open to critical thinking.  What is not open to question is (1) that it happened, and (2) that it happened to such an awful, catastrophic extent.  What is not open is a re-examination of the contemporary evidence.
> ...



Bring new evidence (not new analysis) and then analyze all of it.  That has never been done.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> Nope, Zach and Sunni Man, the histories are clear and convincing with contemporary records and other evidence, besides the interviews.  There is no question of what happened and the extent of what happened.  So keep posting for all of us who do know better so that we can have fun here.



Then give me the name of one Jew that was gassed with documentary or material proof.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



What _hasn't_ been done is the complete unearthing of the ground at Treblinka with a complete soil analysis by forensic experts.  If the story is true, there should be a massive disturbance of the soil along with enormous amounts of bone fragments and wood ash (all resulting from the monumental task of burying, then exhuming, and finally cremating hundreds of thousands of human beings).  You have nothing like that.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

Because you say it has never happened?  Has any part of the grounds been dug up and analyzed?  You need to bring new evidence.  I don't see it.


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> Because you say it has never happened?  Has any part of the grounds been dug up and analyzed?  You need to bring new evidence.  I don't see it.



The burden of proof is on the one who makes the positive claim.  You are saying these monstrous things happened.  What do you have to show for it?  Why wasn't this done 65 years ago?


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 19, 2010)

The positive claim has been proved.

The burden of proof now rests with the denier.  Whatcha got?


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## Zack (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> The positive claim has been proved.
> 
> The burden of proof now rests with the denier.  Whatcha got?



So give me the name of one Jew that was gassed with documentary or material proof.  You're dodging and you know it.  No one has to believe your story if you don't show any proof.


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## MikeK (Oct 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> [...] The US, even with Obama, is not going to let the state of Israel be even remotely threatened by Israel's enemies.


Presuming that you are American I wonder how thoroughly you have thought out that statement before making it.

What you've said implies the use of military force on the part of the U.S. to intervene on Israel's behalf.  That necessarily will incur not only enormous economic cost but the loss of quite possibly thousands of American lives.  So the first question I have is are you eligible for military service?  Or do you have sons or brothers who are?  And if so, are you prepared to die, or to have your sons or brothers die while defending Israel?    

If your answer is yes I will assume it's because you are a Jew and are therefore devoted to the preservation of Israel.  But do you think the average American gentile shares your concern?  If so you are in for a rude awakening.

Speaking for myself and I'm quite sure the majority of American gentiles, the U.S. has done quite enough for Israel, too much in fact, and enough is enough.  Israel is a foreign country.  It is not the 51st state of our Union and it's time we stopped treating it as if it were.  But if you feel differently I'd like you to tell us why.  

*Why* should the U.S. continue to support and defend Israel?


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 20, 2010)

Zack said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The positive claim has been proved.
> ...



You deny the official records of the camps exist?  You deny that first hand contemporary interviews of prisoners, camp guards and administrators, etc, exist?  They are more than proof positive.  So, once again, whatch got.  That means, Zach, what do _you _have?


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