# Mass genocide, last 100 years, incl. Holocaust (on 6 million Jews)



## Micho

* Communist Mao = 70 Million

* Islamic Turkey = 2.7 million Christians (Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks)

* Hitler/Eichmann's Nazi Holocaust = 6 millions men/women/children Jews - specifically targeted for no other reason than pertaining to a certain origin.

* eastern Pakistan/Bangladesh (by Islamic Col. Khan) = 3 million.

* Sudan (by northern Arab Islamic regime) = 3.5 million (so far).

* Nigeria (by Arab-Muslims Hausa Fulani) = over 3 million (mostly Christian).

* Uganda (by crazy fanatical-Muslim Idi Amin) 500,000 (mostly Christians).

* Papua NG 100,000 (by racist Muslim Indonesia).

* Lebanon (by Muslims, including Palestine Arabs) = 100,000 (mostly Christians).


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## Unkotare

You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.


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## Truthseeker420

You forgot all the Muslim Zombies that are eating babies brains and boiling their flesh in soup.


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## Unkotare

Truthseeker420 said:


> You forgot all the Muslim Zombies that are eating babies brains and boiling their flesh in soup.




You joke, but a large number of Muslims literally believe that about Jews.


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## BecauseIKnow

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)	49-78,000,000
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945)	12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)	8,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)	6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)	5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20)	1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)	1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)	1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)	1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)	1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)	900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)	800,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88)	600,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987)	570,000
Sukarno (Communists 1965-66)	500,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39)	500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002)	400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001)	400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979)	300,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71)	 300,000 (Bangladesh)
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII)	300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97)	?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996)	220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000)	200,000
Suharto (Aceh, East Timor, New Guinea, 1975-98)	200,000
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56)	200,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972)	150,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99)	100,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999)	100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79)	?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974)	70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83)	70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71)	60,000
Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic, 1930-61)	50,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990)	40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947)	30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20)	30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain)	30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999)	30,000
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968)	30,000
Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez (El Salvador, 1932)	30,000
Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000)	25,000
Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89)	20,000
Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority)	20,000
Bashir Assad (Syria, 2012)	14,000
Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83)	13,000
Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957)	10,000 (war in Algeria)
Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion)	10,000
Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997)	6,000
Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001)	3,500
Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973)	3,000
Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06)	2,000


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## BecauseIKnow

Did you lie there?


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## westwall

BecauseIKnow said:


> Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)	49-78,000,000
> Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945)	12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
> Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)	8,000,000
> Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)	6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
> Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)	5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
> Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20)	1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
> Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)	1,700,000
> Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)	1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
> Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)	1,500,000
> Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)	1,000,000
> Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)	900,000
> Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)	800,000
> Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88)	600,000
> Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987)	570,000
> Sukarno (Communists 1965-66)	500,000
> Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39)	500,000? (Chinese civilians)
> Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002)	400,000
> Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001)	400,000
> Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979)	300,000
> Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71)	 300,000 (Bangladesh)
> Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII)	300,000
> Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97)	?
> Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996)	220,000
> Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000)	200,000
> Suharto (Aceh, East Timor, New Guinea, 1975-98)	200,000
> Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56)	200,000
> Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972)	150,000
> Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99)	100,000
> Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999)	100,000
> Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79)	?
> Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974)	70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)
> Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83)	70,000
> Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71)	60,000
> Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic, 1930-61)	50,000
> Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990)	40,000
> Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947)	30,000 (popular uprising)
> Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20)	30,000 (dissidents executed)
> Francisco Franco (Spain)	30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
> Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999)	30,000
> Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968)	30,000
> Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez (El Salvador, 1932)	30,000
> Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000)	25,000
> Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89)	20,000
> Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority)	20,000
> Bashir Assad (Syria, 2012)	14,000
> Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83)	13,000
> Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957)	10,000 (war in Algeria)
> Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion)	10,000
> Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997)	6,000
> Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001)	3,500
> Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973)	3,000
> Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06)	2,000







You're way low on Stalin.  The collectivisation alone killed that number.  The number now generally accepted is 60-80 million.  Demographers figure China is around 150,000,000 short.


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## ekrem

Ismail Enver did not commit any genocide.
He combatted terrorists.


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## Sunni Man

The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.


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## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.




Like the way you downgraded the number of your brain cells to around 2 at the most?


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## Sunni Man

That is soo cute Ukie


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## Jroc

Sunni Man said:


> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.



Only for the wanna be muslim Jew hater..



Sunni Man said:


> My solution to the Jewish problem.
> 
> Would be to round them up world wide and find and island to quarantine them on.
> 
> There are several islands in the world that could easily contain the 13 million Jews that currently reside in various nations and Israel.
> 
> This way the Jews could build the ultimate Hebrew society they have always dreamed of.
> 
> Several gun boats would patrol the waters around the island to prevent any Jews from trying to escape.
> 
> This way the Jews could be protected from harm; and the world could finally have peace and security.
> 
> Thus a  Win = Win for both Jews and Gentiles


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## syrenn

Micho said:


> * Communist Mao = 70 Million
> 
> * Islamic Turkey = 2.7 million Christians (Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks)
> 
> * Hitler/Eichmann's Nazi Holocaust = 6 millions men/women/children Jews - specifically targeted for no other reason than pertaining to a certain origin.
> 
> * eastern Pakistan/Bangladesh (by Islamic Col. Khan) = 3 million.
> 
> * Sudan (by northern Arab Islamic regime) = 3.5 million (so far).
> 
> * Nigeria (by Arab-Muslims Hausa Fulani) = over 3 million (mostly Christian).
> 
> * Uganda (by crazy fanatical-Muslim Idi Amin) 500,000 (mostly Christians).
> 
> * Papua NG 100,000 (by racist Muslim Indonesia).
> 
> * Lebanon (by Muslims, including Palestine Arabs) = 100,000 (mostly Christians).





11 million were killed in the holocaust. Of which 6 million were jews.


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## syrenn

Khmer Rouge ...about 2 milllion


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## Saigon

It's interesting that you only seem to accurately list those in which the victims were white.

It's also interesting that several examples on your list were not really acts of genocide - Uganda, for instance. 


Your figure of 3 milion for Nigeria is entirely without basis - nor is there genocide in Nigeria.


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## Saigon

syrenn said:


> Khmer Rouge ...about 2 milllion



A marginal call for genocide ince the perpetrators were of the same ethnicity as the victims. 

Genocide does not equal mass murder.


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## Grandma

Saigon said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Khmer Rouge ...about 2 milllion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A marginal call for genocide ince the perpetrators were of the same ethnicity as the victims.
> 
> Genocide does not equal mass murder.
Click to expand...


I'm a bit confused, then. I thought the term genocide included killing those of opposing religious/political beliefs as well.


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## Saigon

Grandma - 

This is actually my field of expertise as a journalist, so I'm going to claim I actually know what I am talking about on this one!

Mot experts consider genocide to be a deliberate attempt to wipe a people off the map. So what we consider 'a people' could be defined in several different ways. 

But it's usually considered that it is one group (i.e. Germans, Australians) attacking another group (Namibian Herero, Tasmanian Aborigines). 

I do not believe Stalin, Mao nor Pol Pot committed genocide, because they did not (by and large) target specific ethnicities, religions or tribes. They committed mass murder. 

However, Rwanda did experience genocide (Hutu against Tutsi) in 1994, and there have been several other instances in this century.


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## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> I do not believe Stalin, Mao nor Pol Pot committed genocide, because they did not (by and large) target specific ethnicities, religions or tribes.




Yes they did, you ignorant dope.


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## Unkotare

Pol Pot targeted the educated, certain ethnic groups, and religious minorities.

Mao targeted several ethnic groups, and of course religious minorities.

Stalin targeted religious minorities and specific ethnic groups and nationalities. 


Crack open a book once in a while, dopey.


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## Intense

Saigon said:


> Grandma -
> 
> This is actually my field of expertise as a journalist, so I'm going to claim I actually know what I am talking about on this one!
> 
> Mot experts consider genocide to be a deliberate attempt to wipe a people off the map. So what we consider 'a people' could be defined in several different ways.
> 
> But it's usually considered that it is one group (i.e. Germans, Australians) attacking another group (Namibian Herero, Tasmanian Aborigines).
> 
> I do not believe Stalin, Mao nor Pol Pot committed genocide, because they did not (by and large) target specific ethnicities, religions or tribes. They committed mass murder.
> 
> However, Rwanda did experience genocide (Hutu against Tutsi) in 1994, and there have been several other instances in this century.



Still breaks down to "Us and Them".


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## Saigon

Intense said:


> Still breaks down to "Us and Them".



Not really, no. 

When Mao had normal Chinese people kiled or tortured, he was largely murdering his own people. Likewise a Pinochet or Stalin. 

Neither Pol Pot, Mao nor Stalin* regularly or systematically attached particular ethnic groups to any great degree. 

Pol Pot's Cambodia was not a very multi-cultural society, with only small groups of Karen, Shan and Hmong living largely along the borders. No doubt he would have targetted them had they been more sizeable, but there is no evidence that he ever sought to wipe any of the groups out prior to the Viet Namese invasion.

*Stalin did target ethnic Germans and later in his life began to target Jews, but these are more exceptions than examples of common practice. One could also claim that he oppressed Ukranians, but his inner circle included a half dozen different ethnicities (Azeris, Armenians, Latvians, etc).


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## mememe

Unkotare said:


> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.



Also, Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, another Bush, Obama and scores of British PMs.


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## mememe

Btw., in "victims of Holocaust" were counted 

1. Jews that were killed or died during WW2;
2. Jews that LEFT Europe either for US or Palestine (but they were alive);
3. Jews that after the WW2 were no longer counted as "Jews" by US Zionists because they were not religious or Christian (but they were alive).


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## mememe

BecauseIKnow said:


> Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)	6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)



Let's do simple math, shall we?

In 1926 in the USSR there lived about 147 million people;
in 1937 -- 163 million;
in 1939 -- 170 million people...

Now, according to you, "Stalin" murdered 60 million just in prisons, plus (what was the number given to you by Dr. Goebbelse for "Ukrainian Holodomor"? 7 million?) 7 million in Ukraine, plus 29 million killed during WW2, plus 3 million (according to you) killed as German POW, plus let's say 2 million who died because of old age, crimes and illnesses... It leaves us with about 69 million total Soviet population by the end of WW2????!!!!!!! And in 1959 (after 15 years!) the population of the USSR was already 209 million people!!!!!!!

You are not just STOOPID in repeating your propaganda mantras and slogans without a slightest attempt at thinking. You are INFINITELY DUMB! And clearly, in US Math is not a subject taught at schools.


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## mememe

Unkotare said:


> Stalin targeted religious minorities and specific ethnic groups and nationalities.
> 
> 
> .



Name them, please.


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## Colin

ekrem said:


> Ismail Enver did not commit any genocide.
> He combatted terrorists.



Yeh, right. I guess that's why Ismail Enver was convicted by the Turkish court and condemned to death for "the extermination and destruction of the Armenians." 




> "The Ottoman Empire should be cleansed of the Armenians and the Lebanese. We have destroyed the former by the sword, we shall destroy the latter through starvation." -- Enver Pasha, May 1916





> *The Genocide Begins*
> 
> At this time, about forty thousand Armenian men were serving in the Turkish Army. In the fall and winter of 1914, all of their weapons were confiscated and they were put into slave labor battalions building roads or were used as human pack animals. Under the brutal work conditions they suffered a very high death rate. Those who survived would soon be shot outright. For the time had come to move against the Armenians.
> 
> The decision to annihilate the entire population came directly from the ruling triumvirate of ultra-nationalist Young Turks. The actual extermination orders were transmitted in coded telegrams to all provincial governors throughout Turkey. Armed roundups began on the evening of April 24, 1915, as 300 Armenian political leaders, educators, writers, clergy and dignitaries in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were taken from their homes, briefly jailed and tortured, then hanged or shot.
> 
> Next, there were mass arrests of Armenian men throughout the country by Turkish soldiers, police agents and bands of Turkish volunteers. The men were tied together with ropes in small groups then taken to the outskirts of their town and shot dead or bayoneted by death squads. Local Turks and Kurds armed with knives and sticks often joined in on the killing.
> 
> Then it was the turn of Armenian women, children, and the elderly. On very short notice, they were ordered to pack a few belongings and be ready to leave home, under the pretext that they were being relocated to a non-military zone for their own safety. They were actually being taken on death marches heading south toward the Syrian Desert.
> 
> Armenian Genocide | United Human Rights Council



And turkey remains the only major country to deny the Armenian genocide!


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## Saigon

Colin - 

In totally agree - the Armenian Genocide is as clear an example of genocide as we are ever likely to see, and it is to the eternal shame of Turkey that they deny it.


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## Unkotare

Pol Pot targeted city-dwellers, anyone with even a moderate level of education (if you wore glasses, well...), ethnic Chinese and Vietnamese were identified and slaughtered in the hundreds of thousands, the Cham indigenous minority in Cambodia were particularly singled out and systematically exterminated, Muslims were put to death, more than half the Cambodian Catholics 'disappeared' almost overnight and all houses of worship destroyed. 

That's genocide.


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## Unkotare

Stalin targeted the Chechens and the Ingush, foreign ethnicities such as Poles, Germans, and Koreans were executed in the hundreds of thousands, mass deportations resulted in the loss of almost half of several groups subjected to such treatment (think Trail of Tears x 100,000). Hundreds of thousands of Russian Orthodox members, nuns, and priests were executed, their houses of worship destroyed. Roman Catholics, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, and other religious minorities were also targeted. 


That's genocide.


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## Unkotare

Mao targeted Tibetans, Uyghurs (ask a member of either group for details, if you have the stomach for it), Christians, ethnic Koreans were singled out, the Dai people of Yunnan were targeted as well as others of China's many ethnic minorities.


That's genocide.


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## mememe

Unkotare said:


> Stalin targeted the Chechens and the Ingush,
> 
> foreign ethnicities such as Poles,
> 
> Germans, and
> 
> Koreans were executed in the hundreds of thousands,
> 
> 
> Russian Orthodox members, nuns, and priests were executed, their houses of worship destroyed.
> 
> Roman Catholics, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims,



1. Not "deportations" but RESETTLEMENTS. For Crimean Tatars, Chechens and Ingush they were obligatory for the acts of genocide against non-Chechen/Ingush/Crimean Tatar citizens during WW2; for Poles they were VOLUNTARY. 
And yes, regarding Chechens, Ingush and Crimean Tatars Stalin demonstrated undue leniency: according to war time laws practically all males of a certain age had to be executed, instead they were simply send with their families to live in other parts of the country. 
How is that "genocide", you twat?

With Poles and West Ukrainians actively engaged in mass murders of each other during German occupation of West Ukraine, the only sensible option to stop mutual hatred was to allow Poles to leave for Poland and to allow West Ukrainians to move from Poland to West Ukraine.
How is that "genocide", you twat?

2. Germans were also sent away from the front lines. Unlike US that put all of its people of Japanese ethnicity into the CONCENTRATION CAMPS just because of their ethnicity!
How is that "genocide", you twat?

3. Koreans were also RESETTLED, not "deported" to other parts of the USSR to remove them from zone of continuous conflicts in the Far East. 
For comparison see example with US Japanese population.
How is that "genocide", you twat?

4. Russian Orthodoxy came under repressions as part of LENIN-TROTSKY RED TERROR policy. Stalin not only stopped it, he issued a number of decrees returning the rights and the property to Russian Orthodox Church.
Try to INVESTIGATE the issue before stomping into discussion with your patent American ignorance, you stoopido!
How is that "genocide", you twat?

5. Neither of these religions came under repressions.


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## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin targeted the Chechens and the Ingush,
> 
> foreign ethnicities such as Poles,
> 
> Germans, and
> 
> Koreans were executed in the hundreds of thousands,
> 
> 
> Russian Orthodox members, nuns, and priests were executed, their houses of worship destroyed.
> 
> Roman Catholics, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Not "deportations" but RESETTLEMENTS. For Crimean Tatars, Chechens and Ingush they were obligatory for the acts of genocide against non-Chechen/Ingush/Crimean Tatar citizens during WW2; for Poles they were VOLUNTARY.
> And yes, regarding Chechens, Ingush and Crimean Tatars Stalin demonstrated undue leniency: according to war time laws practically all males of a certain age had to be executed, instead they were simply send with their families to live in other parts of the country.
> 
> 
> With Poles and West Ukrainians actively engaged in mass murders of each other during German occupation of West Ukraine, the only sensible option to stop mutual hatred was to allow Poles to leave for Poland and to allow West Ukrainians to move from Poland to West Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 2. Germans were also sent away from the front lines. Unlike US that put all of its people of Japanese ethnicity into the CONCENTRATION CAMPS just because of their ethnicity!
> 
> 
> 3. Koreans were also RESETTLED, not "deported" to other parts of the USSR to remove them from zone of continuous conflicts in the Far East.
> For comparison see example with US Japanese population.
> 
> 
> 4. Russian Orthodoxy came under repressions as part of LENIN-TROTSKY RED TERROR policy. Stalin not only stopped it, he issued a number of decrees returning the rights and the property to Russian Orthodox Church.
> 
> 
> 5. Neither of these religions came under repressions.
Click to expand...




Congratulations on being able to live with yourself being an apologist shill eagerly lying and spinning on behalf of a murderous tyrant scumbag like Stalin. Be sure and rub that shit all over yourself and deep into every pore, you sub-human son of a bitch. You are not just ignorant of history, you are willfully and actively antagonistic to humanity itself.


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## Saigon

It's a wonderful thing to watch two childish lightweights feast on each others flesh...it's like a civil war between fleas. 

Except that fleas there is always the vague chance one might have heard of the Shan or the Ingushetians.


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## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> It's a wonderful thing to watch two childish lightweights.




I can imagine how that might make someone like you feel (more) insecure.


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## Saigon

Maybe we can get back to the topic with a BBC definition of genocide:

*"It is the mass extermination of a whole group of people, an attempt to destroy an entire group and wipe them out of existence."*

To my mind this patently excludes many of the events thus far listed in this thread. I think we can assume that neither Mao nor Stalin intended to wipe their own people out of existence - though this hardly excuses the numbers they did exterminate. 

The BBC lists the the obvious cases from recent history:

    - The mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks between 1915-1920 

    - The Holocaust, during which more than six million Jews were killed

    - Rwanda, where an estimated 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus died in the 1994 genocide

Other less clear cases ilisted by the BBC nclude:

- In Bosnia, the 1995 massacre at Srebrenica has been ruled to be genocide by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).

- And others give a long list of what they consider cases of genocide, including the Soviet man-made famine of Ukraine (1932-33), the Indonesian invasion of East Timor (1975), and the Khmer Rouge killings in Cambodia in the 1970s.

- The International Criminal Court in 2010 issued an arrest warrant for the President of Sudan, Omar al-Bashir, on genocide charges. 

BBC News - Analysis: Defining genocide

I would also highlight some very clear earlier cases:

- Australian settlers wiping out the Tasmanian aborigines (early 19th century)

- German settlers wiping out the Herero people in Namibia (early 20th century)

I also think the wholesale slaughter of Congolese people by Leopold's Belgian forces in the late 19th century must come very close to genocide.


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## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Maybe we can get back to the topic with a BBC definition of genocide:
> 
> *"It is the mass extermination of a whole group of people, an attempt to destroy an entire group and wipe them out of existence."*
> 
> To my mind this patently excludes many of the events thus far listed in this thread. .




Why don't you try _reading_ some of the thread, jackass?


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## syrenn

genocide...mass murder.... who gives a flying fuck what version of semantics you want to use....

does it really matter the splinting of the hair?


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## Saigon

syrenn said:


> genocide...mass murder.... who gives a flying fuck what version of semantics you want to use....
> 
> does it really matter the splinting of the hair?



It doesn't matter to the people who died, that's for sure! 

It's just something I have become interested in because of covering Namibia, Rwanda, Nagorno-Karabakh and Cambodia. They are each so different as conflicts that I feel the need to use a different vocabulary. 

I do think the question of intention is important - that the Hutu set out with the express purpose of removing Tutsi from the face of the earth is to my mind a far deeper evil than other less planned and less mechanised and orchestrated acts of mass murder such as we have seen in so many places around the world.


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## syrenn

Saigon said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> genocide...mass murder.... who gives a flying fuck what version of semantics you want to use....
> 
> does it really matter the splinting of the hair?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter to the people who died, that's for sure!
> 
> It's just something I have become interested in because of covering Namibia, Rwanda, Nagorno-Karabakh and Cambodia. They are each so different as conflicts that I feel the need to use a different vocabulary.
> 
> I do think the question of intention is important - that the Hutu set out with the express purpose of removing Tutsi from the face of the earth is to my mind a far deeper evil than other less planned and less mechanised and orchestrated acts of mass murder such as we have seen in so many places around the world.
Click to expand...



yes... the hutu/tutsi sprung to my mind to... but was in the subsequent list. 

at this point.... i really dont care about the semantics of it...... its ALL mass murder.... i really dont give a shit what the "reason" is.


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## westwall

Sunni Man said:


> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.







Minimum 3,000,000 Jews.  300,000 Romani, 150,000 mentally and physically handicapped Germans, 1,500,000 Russian POWs, etc. etc. etc.


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## westwall

Saigon said:


> Grandma -
> 
> This is actually my field of expertise as a journalist, so I'm going to claim I actually know what I am talking about on this one!
> 
> Mot experts consider genocide to be a deliberate attempt to wipe a people off the map. So what we consider 'a people' could be defined in several different ways.
> 
> But it's usually considered that it is one group (i.e. Germans, Australians) attacking another group (Namibian Herero, Tasmanian Aborigines).
> 
> I do not believe Stalin, Mao nor Pol Pot committed genocide, because they did not (by and large) target specific ethnicities, religions or tribes. They committed mass murder.
> 
> However, Rwanda did experience genocide (Hutu against Tutsi) in 1994, and there have been several other instances in this century.







Clearly you don't know much (not surprising).  Here is the officially recognised definition of genocide as recognised by governments, researchers, and historians (not "most experts").  And for those who don't know the term Genocide didn't exist till Raphael lemkin, a Polish-Jewish lawyer, coined it.



[G]enocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; 
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; 
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. 




What is Genocide?


----------



## westwall

Saigon said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still breaks down to "Us and Them".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, no.
> 
> When Mao had normal Chinese people kiled or tortured, he was largely murdering his own people. Likewise a Pinochet or Stalin.
> 
> Neither Pol Pot, Mao nor Stalin* regularly or systematically attached particular ethnic groups to any great degree.
> 
> Pol Pot's Cambodia was not a very multi-cultural society, with only small groups of Karen, Shan and Hmong living largely along the borders. No doubt he would have targetted them had they been more sizeable, but there is no evidence that he ever sought to wipe any of the groups out prior to the Viet Namese invasion.
> 
> *Stalin did target ethnic Germans and later in his life began to target Jews, but these are more exceptions than examples of common practice. One could also claim that he oppressed Ukranians, but his inner circle included a half dozen different ethnicities (Azeris, Armenians, Latvians, etc).
Click to expand...





It was called the Culteral Revolution for a reason


----------



## westwall

Saigon said:


> It's a wonderful thing to watch two childish lightweights feast on each others flesh...it's like a civil war between fleas.
> 
> Except that fleas there is always the vague chance one might have heard of the Shan or the Ingushetians.






It's a wonderful thing to watch a pseudo-intellectual make an abject fool of himself.  Thank you for obliging on such a regular basis.


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> Congratulations on being able to live with yourself .



It's hight of ridiculous to hear a Westerner, ESPECIALLY an American to spout their OUTDATED propaganda crap passed over to them by Dr Goebbelse, as KNOWLEDGE!  

Listen, representative of a nation that plants garlic on the streets of its cities to ward off the vampires, -- you are SO IGNORANT and UNEDUCATED, that even Brzezinski (of all people!) had to state the obvious: "*Public In America Woefully Ignorant About The World*"

So, don't EVER presume that you can lecture other nations on THEIR history! EVER!


----------



## Unkotare

westwall said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wonderful thing to watch two childish lightweights feast on each others flesh...it's like a civil war between fleas.
> 
> Except that fleas there is always the vague chance one might have heard of the Shan or the Ingushetians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wonderful thing to watch a pseudo-intellectual make an abject fool of himself.  Thank you for obliging on such a regular basis.
Click to expand...




It's his speciality.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> So, don't EVER presume that you can lecture other nations on THEIR history! EVER!





If you insist on either lying or being ignorant of history (or both) you can expect to be corrected on a regular basis, fool.


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> If you insist on either lying or being ignorant of history .




"History" in US interpretation is no longer of any interest to anyone outside of US and devoted Western numpties who still look up to US for life guidance.
Live with your "knowledge" of "history", you -- nation of uneducated parasites. 

Btw., Germany and Sweden are demanding of US the return of their gold.
Couple of years back US attempted to repay own debt to Chinese with fake gold (everything that comes from America is based on fraud ), so Germany and Sweden should be careful.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you insist on either lying or being ignorant of history .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "History" in US interpretation is no longer of any interest to anyone outside of US and devoted Western numpties who still look up to US for life guidance.
> Live with your "knowledge" of "history", you -- nation of uneducated parasites.
Click to expand...





You won't pass off your lies that way, chump. Keep flailing away though, it's funny.


----------



## Saigon

westwall said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minimum 3,000,000 Jews.  300,000 Romani, 150,000 mentally and physically handicapped Germans, 1,500,000 Russian POWs, etc. etc. etc.
Click to expand...


Can you tell us which organisations, authorities or groups use the figure of 3 million Jews, and what it is based on?

Can you also explain why you reject the hillberg and Arendt figures?

Jesus wept....


----------



## Saigon

westwall said:


> Clearly you don't know much (not surprising).  Here is the officially recognised definition of genocide as recognised by governments, researchers, and historians (not "most experts").  And for those who don't know the term Genocide didn't exist till Raphael lemkin, a Polish-Jewish lawyer, coined it.
> 
> 
> 
> [G]enocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> (a) Killing members of the group;
> (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
> (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is Genocide?



Your definition is quite a well-known one - it actually appeared in one of my links earlier, I think. 

I don't think it is quite as succinct as the BBC one, but it is a perfectly good definition. 

btw. Somehow I think my CV in this topic may be just a little stronger than yours. If you think otherwise I'd be delighted to compare them.


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Somehow I think my CV in this topic may be just a little stronger than yours.





 What a fucking douchebag. You really are one sad son of a bitch.


----------



## Saigon

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow I think my CV in this topic may be just a little stronger than yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking douchebag. You really are one sad son of a bitch.
Click to expand...


Somehow I think I'm not as sad as the person who follows me around the forum like a deranged puppy.


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow I think my CV in this topic may be just a little stronger than yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking douchebag. You really are one sad son of a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Somehow I think I'm not as sad as the person who follows me around the forum like a deranged puppy.
Click to expand...




Well, if you find someone like that you can ask them, you pathetic douchebag.


----------



## westwall

Saigon said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly you don't know much (not surprising).  Here is the officially recognised definition of genocide as recognised by governments, researchers, and historians (not "most experts").  And for those who don't know the term Genocide didn't exist till Raphael lemkin, a Polish-Jewish lawyer, coined it.
> 
> 
> 
> [G]enocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> (a) Killing members of the group;
> (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
> (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is Genocide?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your definition is quite a well-known one - it actually appeared in one of my links earlier, I think.
> 
> I don't think it is quite as succinct as the BBC one, but it is a perfectly good definition.
> 
> btw. Somehow I think my CV in this topic may be just a little stronger than yours. If you think otherwise I'd be delighted to compare them.
Click to expand...







Your CV is worthless if you use the claim "most experts".  Who the hell cares about YOUR definition.  What we care about is what the ACTUAL definition is and you and your precious "experts" are flat out WRONG.  And, IT'S NOT MY DEFINITION idiot.  It is the WORLDS definition.

Thanks for playing and you can leave Jesus out of it...he doesn't care to interact with morons like you.


----------



## westwall

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow I think my CV in this topic may be just a little stronger than yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking douchebag. You really are one sad son of a bitch.
Click to expand...






Yes, his douchebaggery is becoming quite well known.


----------



## Saigon

Westwall - 

The topic here is genocide.

If a thread appears on Monologues of Outrage and Bitterness, you can perhaps put the ranting there.


----------



## westwall

Saigon said:


> Westwall -
> 
> The topic here is genocide.
> 
> If a thread appears on Monologues of Outrage and Bitterness, you can perhaps put the ranting there.









Piss off you pseudo intellectual lightweight.


----------



## Saigon

westwall said:


> Piss of you pseudo intellectual lightweight.



The term 'pseudo-intellectual' requires a hyphen. It is not two words.

If you are going to play the intelligence card, it might help to be literate.


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> If you are going to play the intelligence card, it might help to be literate.





Hasn't seemed to slow you down any.


----------



## Micho

Unkotare said:


> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.



I tried editing it, no success. You are right.

Russia's Communist, ex-student to be Catholic priest - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.

Paul Pot, sometimes described as "the Hitler of Cambodia", killed between 1 and 3 million.


----------



## Saigon

Micho said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried editing it, no success. You are right.
> 
> Russia's Communist, ex-student to be Catholic priest - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.
> 
> Paul Pot, sometimes described as "the Hitler of Cambodia", killed between 1 and 3 million.
Click to expand...


Why would anyone called Pol Pot the "Hitler of Cambodia"?


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Micho said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried editing it, no success. You are right.
> 
> Russia's Communist, ex-student to be Catholic priest - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.
> 
> Paul Pot, sometimes described as "the Hitler of Cambodia", killed between 1 and 3 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone called Pol Pot the "Hitler of Cambodia"?
Click to expand...


Come back when you finish high school, idiot.


----------



## Saigon

Oh dear, Bauble - you have got it bad, haven't you?!

Let me explain:

Hitler was a right wing fascist.
Pol Pot was a left wing Communist or Nihilist, promoting a Year Zero return to Khmer roots.

Hitler desired an industralised, militarised future. 
Pol Pot desired a rural, pre-industralised past. 

Hitler wished to enslave lesser, other peoples.
Pol Pot wishes to enslave his own people. 

Hitler promoted education and learning.
Pol Pot dismissed education and learning as being western contaminants.

Hitler was expansionist. 
Pol Pot's focus was always internal, cutting Cambodia off from the rest of the world. 

Thus, the two have remarkably little on common.


----------



## Indofred

Sunni Man said:


> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.



Bollocks.

My Polish uncle was in a camp and I've met several Jewish survivors.
They'd have to be bloody good actors to fake those expressions.

No, I'm with 'around 6 million dead in Nazi camps' and won't accept any political bullshit that says otherwise.


----------



## Two Thumbs

BecauseIKnow said:


> Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)	49-78,000,000
> Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945)	12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
> Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)	8,000,000
> Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)	6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
> Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)	5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
> Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20)	1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
> Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)	1,700,000
> Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)	1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
> Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)	1,500,000
> Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)	1,000,000
> Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)	900,000
> Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)	800,000
> Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88)	600,000
> Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987)	570,000
> Sukarno (Communists 1965-66)	500,000
> Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39)	500,000? (Chinese civilians)
> Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002)	400,000
> Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001)	400,000
> Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979)	300,000
> Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71)	 300,000 (Bangladesh)
> Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII)	300,000
> Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97)	?
> Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996)	220,000
> Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000)	200,000
> Suharto (Aceh, East Timor, New Guinea, 1975-98)	200,000
> Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56)	200,000
> Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972)	150,000
> Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99)	100,000
> Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999)	100,000
> Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79)	?
> *Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974)	70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)*
> Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83)	70,000
> Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71)	60,000
> Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic, 1930-61)	50,000
> Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990)	40,000
> Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947)	30,000 (popular uprising)
> Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20)	30,000 (dissidents executed)
> Francisco Franco (Spain)	30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
> Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999)	30,000
> L*yndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968)	30,000*
> Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez (El Salvador, 1932)	30,000
> Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000)	25,000
> Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89)	20,000
> Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority)	20,000
> Bashir Assad (Syria, 2012)	14,000
> Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83)	13,000
> Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957)	10,000 (war in Algeria)
> Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion)	10,000
> Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997)	6,000
> Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001)	3,500
> Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973)	3,000
> Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06)	2,000



Your list missed some obvious and needed people.

FDR; 418,500 Americans
JFK; 58,282 KIA  1,664 MIA  65-119 died in captivity Americans
Truman; 128,650  Americans
Wilson; 320,518  Americans


Can anyone tell me what all these men have in common?


----------



## Two Thumbs

Saigon said:


> Micho said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried editing it, no success. You are right.
> 
> Russia's Communist, ex-student to be Catholic priest - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.
> 
> Paul Pot, sometimes described as "the Hitler of Cambodia", killed between 1 and 3 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone called Pol Pot the "Hitler of Cambodia"?
Click to expand...


charismatic leaders with large body counts?


----------



## Saigon

Two Thumbs said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Micho said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tried editing it, no success. You are right.
> 
> Russia's Communist, ex-student to be Catholic priest - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.
> 
> Paul Pot, sometimes described as "the Hitler of Cambodia", killed between 1 and 3 million.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would anyone called Pol Pot the "Hitler of Cambodia"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> charismatic leaders with large body counts?
Click to expand...


True enough with the body counts, but Pol Pot was more mysterious than charismatic - many Cambodians never saw as much as a picture of him while he was in power.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Saigon said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would anyone called Pol Pot the "Hitler of Cambodia"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charismatic leaders with large body counts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True enough with the body counts, but Pol Pot was more mysterious than charismatic - many Cambodians never saw as much as a picture of him while he was in power.
Click to expand...


Try imagine the body count he had then 

w/o

The mass appeal hitler had.

That's another level of leadership skills.


----------



## editec

Perhaps the question of genocide can be parced out to better describe the MOTIVE of the mass killing?

For example, assume that people start killing people of the same nationality, but of different ethnic values.

Ethnocide might be the better decriptive term.


But whatever we call these events, and whatever the motive behind those events, I think we can all agree that these events are MASS KILLINGS on an industrial scale.


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Oh dear, Bauble - you have got it bad, haven't you?!
> 
> Let me explain:
> 
> Hitler was a right wing fascist.
> Pol Pot was a left wing Communist or Nihilist, promoting a Year Zero return to Khmer roots.
> 
> Hitler desired an industralised, militarised future.
> Pol Pot desired a rural, pre-industralised past.
> 
> Hitler wished to enslave lesser, other peoples.
> Pol Pot wishes to enslave his own people.
> 
> Hitler promoted education and learning.
> Pol Pot dismissed education and learning as being western contaminants.
> 
> Hitler was expansionist.
> Pol Pot's focus was always internal, cutting Cambodia off from the rest of the world.
> 
> Thus, the two have remarkably little on common.





You suck at spin, Mr. Limpet, and it speaks to your character that you would even try to play at such games, considering the topic, just to protect your incredibly fragile little ego.


----------



## Micho

Saigon said:


> Micho said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried editing it, no success. You are right.
> 
> Russia's Communist, ex-student to be Catholic priest - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.
> 
> Paul Pot, sometimes described as "the Hitler of Cambodia", killed between 1 and 3 million.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone called Pol Pot the "Hitler of Cambodia"?
Click to expand...

Why would you ask that?


----------



## Saigon

Micho - 

See #64. 

Hitler and Pol Pot have very, very little in common, either in terms of ideology or practice.


----------



## Unkotare

It's funny to watch the Finnish Cliff Clavin stutter, stammer, and try to spin his way out of yet another stupid declaration.


----------



## Micho

Indofred said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bollocks.
> 
> My Polish uncle was in a camp and I've met several Jewish survivors.
> They'd have to be bloody good actors to fake those expressions.
> 
> No, I'm with 'around 6 million dead in Nazi camps' and won't accept any political bullshit that says otherwise.
Click to expand...

There were at least 6 million Jews massacred. But don't try and convince Islamo nazis... Oh that's exactly why are they are so termed... Starting with that garbage al-Husseini, Hitler's buddy buddy.


----------



## Saigon

Unkotare said:


> You suck at spin, Mr. Limpet, and it speaks to your character that you would even try to play at such games, considering the topic, just to protect your incredibly fragile little ego.



If anyone ever wanted to hear what a spanked child sounded like, here is a pretty good example. 


Perhaps if you stopped stalking me around the board I might not be so tempted to humiliate you?

Stop stalking, address topics instead of posters and I imagine you might find posting a little more enjoyable. As it is you have this huge sign above your post that says "Kick Me".


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Perhaps if you stopped stalking me around the board I might not be so tempted to humiliate you?





Perhaps if you weren't so busy humiliating yourself you might get around to it, Cliffy. Its fun to watch someone who wants so badly to be arrogant make a fool of himself.


----------



## westwall

Saigon said:


> Oh dear, Bauble - you have got it bad, haven't you?!
> 
> Let me explain:
> 
> Hitler was a right wing fascist.
> Pol Pot was a left wing Communist or Nihilist, promoting a Year Zero return to Khmer roots.
> 
> Hitler desired an industralised, militarised future.
> Pol Pot desired a rural, pre-industralised past.
> 
> Hitler wished to enslave lesser, other peoples.
> Pol Pot wishes to enslave his own people.
> 
> Hitler promoted education and learning.
> Pol Pot dismissed education and learning as being western contaminants.
> 
> Hitler was expansionist.
> Pol Pot's focus was always internal, cutting Cambodia off from the rest of the world.
> 
> Thus, the two have remarkably little on common.









Both were collectivists (look it up), both murdered vast quantities of their own citizens, both felt that individual rights and responsibilities were cute but didn't apply to their countries.  

You see dear boy, there are only two types of governmental system, collectivist and individualist.  It matters not what they call themselves, the only thing that matters is how the individual is treated within the boundaries of that government.


----------



## westwall

Unkotare said:


> It's funny to watch the Finnish Cliff Clavin stutter, stammer, and try to spin his way out of yet another stupid declaration.







Oh, he's not a Finn.  They are far smarter than this clown.  He's an American imposter at best.


----------



## Saigon

Westwall - 

The fact that extreme right wing dictatorships and extreme left wing dictatorships are both dictatorships does not mean they are the same thing.


----------



## Unkotare

Cliffy's incredibly fragile little ego makes him dance in the most amusing ways!


----------



## Unkotare

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gku_xU2BXBs]Cheers Cliff&#39;s big mouth - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## westwall

Saigon said:


> Westwall -
> 
> The fact that extreme right wing dictatorships and extreme left wing dictatorships are both dictatorships does not mean they are the same thing.







Yes, it does.  One looks at the effect a governmental system has on the individual and goes from there.  You tell me, what difference did it make to be a serf under Stalin or under Hitler?  Other than Stalin murdered way more that is...


----------



## Saigon

Westwall -

No it doesn't - otherwise Stalin and Hitler would have been on the same side; likewise Cristiani and FSLN or Franco and the Spanish Communists.

There are entire worlds of pihilosophical difference between Hitler and Stalin, and even more so between Hitler and Pol Pot, and the post you quote outlines what they are. 

This is very subjective, of course, but the effect on the individual is less important to me than the ideology, intentions and policies of the state. I do agree that the life of a peasant under Hitler or Stalin may not have been terribly different - but the ideologies driving those changes were in total and direct opposition.


----------



## Unkotare

LOL Look at Cliffy dance! He'll dance himself to death before admitting he was wrong. Too funny. The fragile little ego is wagging the bitch!


----------



## Unkotare

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZag1zlecGI]Cheers - Cliff&#39;s Electric Button - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Indofred

Turns out the US of Arse makes Hitler look like a bit of an amateur.



> This study reveals that U.S. military forces were directly responsible for about 10 to 15 million deaths during the Korean and Vietnam Wars and the two Iraq Wars. The Korean War also includes Chinese deaths while the Vietnam War also includes fatalities in Cambodia and Laos.



That's just a few of the US's wars and doesn't even consider murders of true Americans, the Indians, striking miners, black people for being black and so on.


----------



## Unkotare

That was a load of off-topic, pointless anti-americanism.


----------



## Saigon

Indofred said:


> Turns out the US of Arse makes Hitler look like a bit of an amateur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This study reveals that U.S. military forces were directly responsible for about 10 to 15 million deaths during the Korean and Vietnam Wars and the two Iraq Wars. The Korean War also includes Chinese deaths while the Vietnam War also includes fatalities in Cambodia and Laos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just a few of the US's wars and doesn't even consider murders of true Americans, the Indians, striking miners, black people for being black and so on.
Click to expand...



That's true enough. 

I don't think that makes the US generals guilty of genocide, though, because they never appeared to have the intention of wiping out the Viet Namese or Korean peoples, but it does suggest that they did little to protect civilian lives.


----------



## mememe

Micho said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried editing it, no success. You are right.
> 
> Russia's Communist, ex-student to be *Catholic priest* - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.
> 
> *Paul *Pot, .
Click to expand...



You fucking American MORONS!!!!!!!!!

Stalin was studying to be a CATHOLIC priest?????!!!!!!!

And the name of POL Pot was "PAUL"??????!!!!!!!!

And after that you are trying to lecture the world on its history?????!!!!!

You -- nation of idiots!  

Crawl back into your box "USA" and don't dare showing your stupid faces outside of your own borders!


----------



## mememe

Indofred said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bollocks.
> 
> My Polish uncle was in a camp and I've met several Jewish survivors.
> They'd have to be bloody good actors to fake those expressions.
> 
> No, I'm with 'around 6 million dead in Nazi camps' and won't accept any political bullshit that says otherwise.
Click to expand...


And you are wrong.

Zionists counted as "victims of Holocaust" Jews who were killed during WW2; Jews that LEFT Europe (but were not dead); Christian and non-religious Jews -- those Jews who were alive, but whom Zionists refused to call "Jews" after the WW2.


----------



## westwall

Saigon said:


> Westwall -
> 
> No it doesn't - otherwise Stalin and Hitler would have been on the same side; likewise Cristiani and FSLN or Franco and the Spanish Communists.
> 
> There are entire worlds of pihilosophical difference between Hitler and Stalin, and even more so between Hitler and Pol Pot, and the post you quote outlines what they are.
> 
> This is very subjective, of course, but the effect on the individual is less important to me than the ideology, intentions and policies of the state. I do agree that the life of a peasant under Hitler or Stalin may not have been terribly different - but the ideologies driving those changes were in total and direct opposition.








  Gosh but you're clueless.  Why on earth would two ego manicale absolutists care to "share" anything?  Absolutists are selfish and they want it all.  That's why they fight silly person.  You_ reaaaally_ need to take some psycholgy and sociology classes.
Oh, yes, you still havn't explained the differences to an individual living in Hitlers Germany or Stalins CCCP.  What were they?  With details please.  And by all means include the ideology....what are the differences idelogically speaking, between to two countries and how did that effect the treatment of the individual?


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> Micho said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You left out Stalin and Pol Pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried editing it, no success. You are right.
> 
> Russia's Communist, ex-student to be *Catholic priest* - turned atheist - Joseph Stalin killed at least 20,000,000.
> 
> *Paul *Pot, .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You fucking American MORONS!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Stalin was studying to be a CATHOLIC priest?????!!!!!!!
> 
> And the name of POL Pot was "PAUL"??????!!!!!!!!
> 
> And after that you are trying to lecture the world on its history?????!!!!!
> 
> You -- nation of idiots!
> 
> Crawl back into your box "USA" and don't dare showing your stupid faces outside of your own borders!
Click to expand...






While we may be a nation of idiots you bring the defintion of idiot to a whole new level.


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> While we may be a nation of idiots you bring the defintion of idiot to a whole new level.



Darling, there is no other "new" level of idiocy past an "American" one.


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> While we may be a nation of idiots you bring the defintion of idiot to a whole new level.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darling, there is no other "new" level of idiocy past an "American" one.
Click to expand...





Sure there is, and you're the living embodiment of it!


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> Sure there is, !



No, there isn't.

In 1970-s your power elites destroyed your mass education as a system, replacing it with JUNK education, and begun dismemberment of your society along liberal paradigm.

And now you are a society of loners that occupies itself with consuming junk food, junk education and junk information. You became a society of lonely morons -- a substance easily manipulated and incapable of any meaningful self-organisation.

Beyond this point there is only a complete destruction.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Crawl back into your box "USA" and don't dare showing your stupid faces outside of your own borders!




"Don't dare"? LOL  And just what would a flea like you from whatever dump of a country spawned you do about that?


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> And just what would a flea like you



Me?!

It's not about "me". You, Americans, done so much evil to every nation in this world that it is now coming back to you. And it's only the beginning...


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And just what would a flea like you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me?!...
Click to expand...




Yes you, flea.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And just what would a flea like you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me?!
> 
> It's not about "me". You, Americans, done so much evil to every nation in this world that it is now coming back to you. And it's only the beginning...
Click to expand...




What ever hell-hole spawned you will not exist long enough to do a tiny fraction of the good the US has done and continues to do in the world, flea.


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> What ever hell-hole spawned you .



The hell-hole is one and only -- US, but I have nothing to do with it.

And on a question of existence: some of your intellectual rivals do feel it coming even though they can not articulate it -- u.s. prepper -- the most hilarious program on British TV!


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> What ever hell-hole spawned you .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hell-hole is one and only -- US, but I have nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...




So, what jerk-water cess pool gets the blame for spawning you?


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> What ever hell-hole spawned you .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hell-hole is one and only -- US, but I have nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what jerk-water cess pool gets the blame for spawning you?
Click to expand...


americans are sooooo slow...

None. Because there is ONLY ONE CESSPOOL -- USA, and fortunately I have no connection to it.


----------



## Unkotare

Ashamed to say where you're from? I don't blame you.


----------



## Colin

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is, !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, there isn't.
> 
> In 1970-s your power elites destroyed your mass education as a system, replacing it with JUNK education, and begun dismemberment of your society along liberal paradigm.
> 
> And now you are a society of loners that occupies itself with consuming junk food, junk education and junk information. You became a society of lonely morons -- a substance easily manipulated and incapable of any meaningful self-organisation.
> 
> Beyond this point there is only a complete destruction.
Click to expand...


It's easy to see that you studied incredibly hard to become a moron. You're just so good at it. Morons around the world will be proud of you.


----------



## mememe

Colin said:


> It's easy to see that you studied incredibly hard to become a moron. You're just so good at it. Morons around the world will be proud of you.



Darling, if Britain will continue to remain in US shadow aping it and toeing its line for a decade longer, British will turn into their distant cousins. Have you seen the latest statistics for UK edumacation level? But I suppose, you are part of this statistics...


----------



## Colin

mememe said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's easy to see that you studied incredibly hard to become a moron. You're just so good at it. Morons around the world will be proud of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darling, if Britain will continue to remain in US shadow aping it and toeing its line for a decade longer, British will turn into their distant cousins. Have you seen the latest statistics for UK edumacation level? But I suppose, you are part of this statistics...
Click to expand...


For someone who keeps on about the standard of education you sure don't write very well.


----------



## mememe

Colin said:


> For someone who keeps on about the standard of education you sure don't write very well.



Darling, English is my THIRD language; and I still write better than some English-speakers on this forum.


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> Colin said:
> 
> 
> 
> For someone who keeps on about the standard of education you sure don't write very well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darling, English is my THIRD language; and I still write better than some English-speakers on this forum.
Click to expand...






Only three?  What a poor, uneducated, lout you are.


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> uneducated,.



Nation that can't find Pacific Ocean on a map and doesn't know how many sides triangle has, but believes in zombies, vampires, skywalkers and other pokemons!..   

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LVz4VweMqFE]Stupid Americans.. - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7ZKzzVstfC8]Zombie Apocalypse Training: HALO Corp. To Stage Emergency Response Exercise - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4bNvt-z0QiM]Lawndale, California vampire problem... - YouTube[/ame]


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...hkcjR-aLHoPZxTkvg&sig2=ZDVTUnhfPbXAKqSt8sq5LQ


----------



## koshergrl

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not believe Stalin, Mao nor Pol Pot committed genocide, because they did not (by and large) target specific ethnicities, religions or tribes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they did, you ignorant dope.
Click to expand...

 
Well he did call himself a *journalist* lololol...


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> uneducated,.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nation that can't find Pacific Ocean on a map and doesn't know how many sides triangle has, but believes in zombies, vampires, skywalkers and other pokemons!..
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LVz4VweMqFE]Stupid Americans.. - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7ZKzzVstfC8]Zombie Apocalypse Training: HALO Corp. To Stage Emergency Response Exercise - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4bNvt-z0QiM]Lawndale, California vampire problem... - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...hkcjR-aLHoPZxTkvg&sig2=ZDVTUnhfPbXAKqSt8sq5LQ
Click to expand...






Yes, the Public School system is terrible, that's for sure.  They are dumbing down the American population so that they are more easily controlled like you and yours are.   It's sad, as bad as this country is, it still has flush toilets that actually funcion unlike most of Europe (with the exception of Germany that is) and the simple fact that we pretty much rebuilt the European continent and still you clowns can't seem to get an economy up to even half of what we produce...even though we are such morons, we STILL outproduce the likes of you fools.


How do you account for that?


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> 1. Yes, the Public School system is terrible, that's for sure.  They are dumbing down the American population so that they are more easily controlled like you and yours are.   It's sad, as bad as this country is, it still has flush toilets that actually funcion unlike most of Europe (with the exception of Germany that is)
> 
> 2. and the simple fact that we pretty much rebuilt the European continent and
> 
> 3. still you clowns can't seem to get an economy up to
> 
> 4. even half of what we produce..



1. Correct.

2. Correction: as US was LENDING it's "help" (much of it US made during WW2), it ensured that European economies will work on US and will be tied up to US $. So, in fact, Europe built your economy. Oh, and US also dismantled British Empire and took over from UK.

3. Remind me, please, what country this crisis of capitalist system begun?

4. And what is it that US produce?!


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> uneducated,.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nation that can't find Pacific Ocean on a map and doesn't know how many sides triangle has, but believes in zombies, vampires, skywalkers and other pokemons!..
Click to expand...



"Other pokemons"? That makes even less sense than you usually do. Now, where was it you said you were from, loser?


----------



## Unkotare

koshergrl said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not believe Stalin, Mao nor Pol Pot committed genocide, because they did not (by and large) target specific ethnicities, religions or tribes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they did, you ignorant dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well he did call himself a *journalist* lololol...
Click to expand...


  lol


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> 4. And what is it that US produce?!





  What did you say your third language was again?


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. And what is it that US produce?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you say your third language was again?
Click to expand...


US PRODUCED English language? Are you sure?


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. And what is it that US produce?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did you say your third language was again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> US PRODUCED English language? Are you sure?
Click to expand...


Well, we know you're good at missing the point. 

You still can't produce a proper sentence. Care to try again, or do you just want to shut the fuck up and go back to English class?


----------



## Sandoka

Sunni Man said:


> The so called Holocaust needs to be down graded from 6 million to around 2 hundred thousand at the most.



Sunni, you lose cred when you make such outrageous claims.  We have the German census figures and Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, Russian  and Ukrainian counts to go by, and the Jewish people who disappeared between 1930 to 1940 to 1950 come to 5.78 Million.  They just were no longer there or anywhere to be counted. Granted, more of them could have died of natural causes,  than has been estimated, but the number is accurate within one percent.  So many super-highly intelligent people, and they are just gone, poof!

That is such a horribly sad reality.  

The United States should have opened its doors to any Jew who wanted to immigrate here. The average IQ in this country would have soared by at least ten points.


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Yes, the Public School system is terrible, that's for sure.  They are dumbing down the American population so that they are more easily controlled like you and yours are.   It's sad, as bad as this country is, it still has flush toilets that actually funcion unlike most of Europe (with the exception of Germany that is)
> 
> 2. and the simple fact that we pretty much rebuilt the European continent and
> 
> 3. still you clowns can't seem to get an economy up to
> 
> 4. even half of what we produce..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Correct.
> 
> 2. Correction: as US was LENDING it's "help" (much of it US made during WW2), it ensured that European economies will work on US and will be tied up to US $. So, in fact, Europe built your economy. Oh, and US also dismantled British Empire and took over from UK.
> 
> 3. Remind me, please, what country this crisis of capitalist system begun?
> 
> 4. And what is it that US produce?!
Click to expand...







Your language skills are failing there buckwheat.

The US supported the UK for 6 years of WWII.  The US GAVE the Soviet Union 600,000 trucks alone, plus thousands of airplanes, tanks, tons of food and munitions etc.  Germany was destroyed thanks to US productivity.  And lives, we lost 300,000 people as well.

I must confess that I have no clue what your question number 3 is...perhaps you were drunk when you composed it...

The US still outproduces the world in most things.  Even as screwed up as we are, and we really are screwed up.  China is catching up though, soon it will surpass us.  Of course it has 4 times as many people so it should outproduce us...no?


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> Well, we know you're good at missing the point.



That's because no matter how hard you try, you can't make a point.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we know you're good at missing the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because no matter how hard you try, you can't make a point.
Click to expand...




There it goes again. Have you ever thought about NOT being stupid for a while? Just to try it out?


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> 1. The US supported the UK for 6 years of WWII.
> 
> 2. The US GAVE the Soviet Union 600,000 trucks alone, plus thousands of airplanes, tanks, tons of food and munitions etc.
> Germany was destroyed thanks to US productivity.  And lives, we lost 300,000 people as well.
> 
> 3. I must confess that I have no clue what your question number 3 is...perhaps you were drunk when you composed it...
> 
> 4. The US still outproduces the world in most things.  Even as screwed up as we are, and we really are screwed up.  China is catching up though, soon it will surpass us.  Of course it has 4 times as many people so it should outproduce us...no?



1. In exchange for UK dismantling its empire after the war.

2. US did NOT give anything. USSR (and other countries) PAID BACK for US help. And US help to the USSR was a FRACTION of what the Soviet Union produced for war-time needs.
Nazi Germany was destroyed thanks to the Soviet people. As for US war contribution, don't forget to mention US help to Hitler that lasted until the end of 1944. While 300 000 Americans were giving their lives fighting Hitler, US corporations were making profits on helping Hitler to continue with the war efforts.

3. Current crisis is more than "economic and financial" crisis. It is a crisis of the system, the capitalist system. And it started in 2008 in the USA.

4. What is it that US produces that matters to the world outside of US?!


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The US supported the UK for 6 years of WWII.
> 
> 2. The US GAVE the Soviet Union 600,000 trucks alone, plus thousands of airplanes, tanks, tons of food and munitions etc.
> Germany was destroyed thanks to US productivity.  And lives, we lost 300,000 people as well.
> 
> 3. I must confess that I have no clue what your question number 3 is...perhaps you were drunk when you composed it...
> 
> 4. The US still outproduces the world in most things.  Even as screwed up as we are, and we really are screwed up.  China is catching up though, soon it will surpass us.  Of course it has 4 times as many people so it should outproduce us...no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. In exchange for UK dismantling its empire after the war.
> 
> 2. US did NOT give anything. USSR (and other countries) PAID BACK for US help. And US help to the USSR was a FRACTION of what the Soviet Union produced for war-time needs.
> Nazi Germany was destroyed thanks to the Soviet people. As for US war contribution, don't forget to mention US help to Hitler that lasted until the end of 1944. While 300 000 Americans were giving their lives fighting Hitler, US corporations were making profits on helping Hitler to continue with the war efforts.
> 
> 3. Current crisis is more than "economic and financial" crisis. It is a crisis of the system, the capitalist system. And it started in 2008 in the USA.
> 
> 4. What is it that US produces that matters to the world outside of US?!
Click to expand...








The UK's empire was allready failing.  English historians often say the "British Empire died on the Somme battlefield" when a generation of its finest was killed.  80,000 are _still_ missing from that battle alone.

As of this year the only countries EVER to have paid back their war loans are Finland and the UK.

The crisis began in 1913 with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act.

What we produce affects the world.

You know, for a person who claims to be so educated, you sure are ignorant.  Simple concepts and relatively well known history eludes you.  I suggest you go back and finish Primary school before you make an even greater fool of yourself.


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> 1. The UK's empire was allready failing.  English historians
> 
> 2. As of this year the only countries EVER to have paid back their war loans are Finland and the UK.
> 
> 3. The crisis began in 1913 with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act.
> 
> 4. What we produce affects the world.
> 
> Simple concepts and relatively well known history



1. Was it failing, was it not failing is irrelevant. US agreed a dismantlement of UK empire as a pre-requisite to it entering the war on UK side.

2. Then why did you say US *GAVE* its help?! The US SOLD its help!

3. Who cares what was going on within the US borders BEFORE $ became a world currency not supported by anything apart from "the word" of US bankers?! 
The latest crisis goes beyond the usual for capitalist system economic and financial crisis. What we have now, is the crisis of the whole of capitalist system! And it started in US in 2008.

4. So what is it that US produces that affects the world?!


I have no time for US concocted "history".


----------



## Unkotare

Hey, you never told me where you were from.


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The UK's empire was allready failing.  English historians
> 
> 2. As of this year the only countries EVER to have paid back their war loans are Finland and the UK.
> 
> 3. The crisis began in 1913 with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act.
> 
> 4. What we produce affects the world.
> 
> Simple concepts and relatively well known history
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Was it failing, was it not failing is irrelevant. US agreed a dismantlement of UK empire as a pre-requisite to it entering the war on UK side.
> 
> 2. Then why did you say US *GAVE* its help?! The US SOLD its help!
> 
> 3. Who cares what was going on within the US borders BEFORE $ became a world currency not supported by anything apart from "the word" of US bankers?!
> The latest crisis goes beyond the usual for capitalist system economic and financial crisis. What we have now, is the crisis of the whole of capitalist system! And it started in US in 2008.
> 
> 4. So what is it that US produces that affects the world?!
> 
> 
> I have no time for US concocted "history".
Click to expand...






Yes, it was failing.  Regardless of WWII, the British Empire was coming to an end.  WWII merely sped up the process, though not by much.

The US gave 300,000 of our finest, and we gave millions of dollars in munitions to the UK alone.  We accepted 50 useless destroyers (they were so obsolete and old that many were not capable of sailing) as payment for modern weapons and munitions.   We built hundreds of airfields in the UK and after the war we GAVE them to the UK.  We rebuilt vast areas of Europe post war for FREE.

The backers of the Federal Reserve Act were EOROPEAN BANKERS nimrod.

Because when the US fails (as it will if it keeps following the path of European Socialism) then the whole world will collapse, that's why.  Even the Chinese realise that.

At least we have a history...unlike you.  You are brainless and ignorant and that's no way to go through life buckwheat.


----------



## westwall

Unkotare said:


> Hey, you never told me where you were from.






He's eurotrash.  I deal with them all of the time when I travel to Europe.  They are the poor white trash of the continent.  Closely akin to the Romani.


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> 1. Yes, it was failing.  Regardless of WWII, the British Empire was coming to an end.  WWII merely sped up the process, though not by much.
> 
> 2. The US gave 300,000 of our finest, and we gave millions of dollars in munitions to the UK alone.
> We accepted 50 useless destroyers (they were so obsolete and old that many were not capable of sailing) as payment for modern weapons and munitions.   We built hundreds of airfields in the UK and after the war we GAVE them to the UK.  We rebuilt vast areas of Europe post war for FREE.
> 
> 3. The backers of the Federal Reserve Act were EOROPEAN BANKERS nimrod.
> 
> 4. Because when the US fails (as it will if it keeps following the path of European Socialism) then
> 
> 5. the whole world will collapse, that's why.
> 
> 6. At least we have a history...unlike you.



1. You can speculate as much as you want, but you can't ignore a simple fact: an agreement of dismantlement of the British empire was a PREREQUISITE to US joining the war on UK side!

2. US did it in exchange for dismantlement of the British empire.
Besides, US made money on "helping BOTH sides of the WW2, making sure the war continues; 
and after the war tied ALL economies that eccepted US "help" to the $; 
and made it one of the conditions of the Marshal Plan that the economies of the recipients will become orientated on US economy!

3. Once more, Federal Reserve is controlled by 9 Jewish families, most of them based in US. Please, tell me, have you ever heard of Rockfellers? Are they European?

4. How brain DEAD (not even brain-washed!) one should be to even suggest that US had ever stepped on a path of socialism???!!!!! Apart from your media, where else did you see anything at least remotely socialist?!

5.  How did the world live PRIOR to US? 
Not "the world" would collapse, but the CAPITALIST SYSTEM!!! And you know why? Because for the past 40 years this system is held in place exclusively by US dollar system and US military + aggressive foreign policy.  
And it WILL collapse because it has reached its NATURAL end. The same way slavery ended, feudalism ended...

6. America has everything, apart from the past and the future


----------



## Unkotare

westwall said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you never told me where you were from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's eurotrash.  I deal with them all of the time when I travel to Europe.  They are the poor white trash of the continent.  Closely akin to the Romani.
Click to expand...



I wonder why he's so clearly afraid to say specifically where he's from though. Must be something he's ashamed of. Rightly so, I'd imagine.


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Yes, it was failing.  Regardless of WWII, the British Empire was coming to an end.  WWII merely sped up the process, though not by much.
> 
> 2. The US gave 300,000 of our finest, and we gave millions of dollars in munitions to the UK alone.
> We accepted 50 useless destroyers (they were so obsolete and old that many were not capable of sailing) as payment for modern weapons and munitions.   We built hundreds of airfields in the UK and after the war we GAVE them to the UK.  We rebuilt vast areas of Europe post war for FREE.
> 
> 3. The backers of the Federal Reserve Act were EOROPEAN BANKERS nimrod.
> 
> 4. Because when the US fails (as it will if it keeps following the path of European Socialism) then
> 
> 5. the whole world will collapse, that's why.
> 
> 6. At least we have a history...unlike you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You can speculate as much as you want, but you can't ignore a simple fact: an agreement of dismantlement of the British empire was a PREREQUISITE to US joining the war on UK side!
> 
> 2. US did it in exchange for dismantlement of the British empire.
> Besides, US made money on "helping BOTH sides of the WW2, making sure the war continues;
> and after the war tied ALL economies that eccepted US "help" to the $;
> and made it one of the conditions of the Marshal Plan that the economies of the recipients will become orientated on US economy!
> 
> 3. Once more, Federal Reserve is controlled by 9 Jewish families, most of them based in US. Please, tell me, have you ever heard of Rockfellers? Are they European?
> 
> 4. How brain DEAD (not even brain-washed!) one should be to even suggest that US had ever stepped on a path of socialism???!!!!! Apart from your media, where else did you see anything at least remotely socialist?!
> 
> 5.  How did the world live PRIOR to US?
> Not "the world" would collapse, but the CAPITALIST SYSTEM!!! And you know why? Because for the past 40 years this system is held in place exclusively by US dollar system and US military + aggressive foreign policy.
> And it WILL collapse because it has reached its NATURAL end. The same way slavery ended, feudalism ended...
> 
> 6. America has everything, apart from the past and the future
Click to expand...






Here's your girlfriend Natalya...


----------



## westwall

Unkotare said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you never told me where you were from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's eurotrash.  I deal with them all of the time when I travel to Europe.  They are the poor white trash of the continent.  Closely akin to the Romani.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why he's so clearly afraid to say specifically where he's from though. Must be something he's ashamed of. Rightly so, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...






Based on the way he butchers the language I would guess he's baltic states.  Possibly Russian.  Though Russians, in general, are brighter than him.  Plenty of drunk Lithuanians and Latvians though  Estonians seem to be more level headed than this nimrod.


----------



## ERGO

*Jews created lies about pertinent aspects of World War 2 European history *and have used it as a political tool in order to *manipulate *with (emotional appeals) and a lot non-Jewish "Historians" have helped to disseminate those lies and have helped to further the Jewish manipulation of gullible non-Jews (Goyim). The alleged "holocaust" has been turned into a religion known to some as Holocaustianity.  Denial of the Holocaust is illegal in Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Switzerland. *Why has debate and investigation into the claims about the alleged "holocaust' been made illegal in these countries? *The truth does not need a law to protect it. The truth stands on the merits of it's arguments and is able to withstand scrutiny. A lie...a deception, on the other hand, would require a law to protect inquiry into the lies and deceptions. Lies and deception are unable to stand up to any scrutiny.
You always know when the true believers of Holocaustianity are losing the argument when they begin with the invective name calling and ad hominem attacks and are no longer able to argue on the merits of the issue.

Author Don Heddesheimer&#8217;s book (Don Heddesheimer: The First Holocaust) is an important piece of the revisionist puzzle. Heddesheimer cogently documents the slew of previous attempts by Jews to disseminate deceitful and untrue atrocity propaganda before, during and after World War I. (That's World War One).


*The First Holocaust *features an amazing collection of press clippings and propaganda articles dating back to the late 19th century that make claims of the suffering and imminent extermination of European Jewry. Among such articles we find that Jews have, dozens of times before WWII, invoked the cabalisitc &#8220;6,000,000&#8243; number as the amount of Jews on the verge of death and destruction during various periods of turmoil and conflict in Europe and Russia. Undoubtedly, this book exposes the deliberate fraudulence of these sinister Zionist campaigns and media blitzes, long before Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in 1933, designed to elicit public sympathy and financial support for Jewish political ambitions, principally the establishment of the State of Israel.

The obsessive invocation of the cabalistic fable of &#8220;6,000,000 dead or dying Jews&#8221; dating back at least four decades prior to the events of WWII directly undermines and betrays the notion that 6,000,000 Jews perished in Europe between 1939-1945, as Jews have claimed. *It was a lie the first time, and it is a lie today!*

A question that you might ask is: &#8220;what is the significance of the &#8216;Six Million&#8217; figure and where did it originate?&#8221;

*The mythical &#8220;Six Million&#8221; figure has intriguing origins indeed*. Jews have staunchly emphasized the 6,000,000 figure in atrocity propaganda, from the years 1890 through 1945. World War II ended in 1945, and since that time the cabalistic 6,000,000 figure has now reached sacrosanct status. 

The mythical &#8220;Six Million&#8221; figure has intriguing origins indeed. Jews have staunchly emphasized the 6,000,000 figure in atrocity propaganda from the years 1890 through 1945. World War II ended in 1945, and since that time the cabalistic 6,000,000 figure has now reached sacrosanct status. This was achieved through a sleazy and deceptive campaign of repetitive HoloHoax swindlespeak in the news and entertainment media, centered in Jewish Hollywood How Jewish is Hollywood? - latimes.com As the Jewish-Communist mass murderer, Vladimir Lenin, once said: &#8220;a lie told often enough becomes the truth.&#8221; This campaign of Jewish deceit has steadily intensified over the years. When Jews sense an increase in awareness of their treachery and global crimes against humanity amongst the Gentile public (a natural reaction of which is resentment and hostility), the louder they begin to wail about their invented holocaust in the octopus of media organs they control. That&#8217;s why they are always gauging the pulse of public opinion.


World leaders, Presidents, Prime Ministers, ceremonial Kings and Queens, Popes, Priests and Holy Men of all faiths, genuflect in groveling reverence of the mythical &#8220;6,000,000 Jews&#8221; who didn&#8217;t perish in &#8220;Nazi gas chambers&#8221;, as such chambers did not exist and were impossible. 
(http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/12/no-real-evidence-for-gas-chambers.html)

*Source article*:The &#8220;Six Million&#8221; Myth | The Works and Research of ZionCrimeFactory

*More info on the "holocaust" myth:*

Friedrich Paul Berg's "NaziGassings.com"

The Gas Chambers: Truth or Lie?

* Auschwitz. Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth *
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcHni-Im1lw&bpctr=1352995877]Auschwitz. Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth - YouTube[/ame]

* Holohoax Completely Exposed by David Cole *
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeG89gyV_LU&feature=related]Holohoax Completely Exposed by David Cole - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Unkotare

Oh look, just what we needed: another history-denying, anti-semitic douchebag.


----------



## ERGO

You always know when the true believers of Holocaustianity (the brainwashed) are losing the argument...it's when they begin with the invective name calling and ad hominem attacks and are no longer able to counter your facts or argue on the merits of the issue.Name calling and ad hominem... it's all you have left. Pretty pathetic!

What you call denial of World War 2 history, I and many others call World War 2 fables...stories...LIES!... FABRICATED STORIES!

...there's antisemitism because there's ethnocentric chauvinistic Semitism!

*The Last Days of the Big Lie *
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tHB8tD34s]The Last Days of the Big Lie - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Unkotare

Take it to stormfront, adolph, where your idiotic bullshit will be appreciated. Fucking douchebag.


----------



## ERGO

Unkotare said:


> Take it to stormfront, adolph, where your idiotic bullshit will be appreciated. Fucking douchebag.



*Ahhhhhh Too bad.*..poor baby getting mad...not able to handle facts or refute with anything factual. I understand you're frustrated because you probably have the IQ of a doorknob and aren't able to muster anything intellectual in response, must be tough...Well I'll tell you what I'm going to do... I am going to keep posting here and if you don't like it...well... go fuck yourself, I won't be intimidated by low IQ asswipes such as yourself.


----------



## Unkotare

Do you and the rest of the girls dress up in your little nazi costumes and play make-believe history? Or is that just what vile, idiotic scum like you do online? GTFO.


----------



## ERGO

Unkotare said:


> Do you and the rest of the girls dress up in your little nazi costumes and play make-believe history? Or is that just what vile, idiotic scum like you do online? GTFO.



Again, I understand you're not able to engage in an intellectual debate or refute with facts because you're evidently mentally deficient (low intelligence)...must be tough being a low IQ monkey who slings his dung at people and then picks his nose. 

*Because I like you, I going to recommend this for you.*






See ya stinky monkey butt...


----------



## Unkotare

Do you girls giggle and have pillow fights in your little pink nazi pajamas? How precious.


----------



## ERGO

Unkotare said:


> Do you girls giggle and have pillow fights in your little pink nazi pajamas? How precious.



*Because I like you so much stinky monkey butt...it's back to stating my case about the holohoax:*

Perhaps you're a Jewzi stinky monkey butt...here goes

*Is it just coincidental that the flimsy and farcical story of &#8220;6,000,000 Jews&#8221; being murdered in &#8220;gas chambers&#8221; and burned up in &#8220;ovens&#8221; in concentration camps during WWII gave the Jews the impetus and PR ammunition they needed to make their &#8220;gallant return&#8221; to the &#8220;promised land&#8221; at the war&#8217;s end*, *occupying and ethnically cleansing much of Palestine through terrorism and force of arms, establishing a racist/apartheid &#8220;Jewish state&#8221; called &#8220;Israel&#8221; in 1948? And this all just happens to fit the previously cited ancient Torah prophecy to the letter? I hardly think so!*

TOWNS DESTROYED AND/OR ETHNICALLY CLEANSED
BY THE JEWZIS/ISRAELIS. 

Towns Destroyed and/or Ethnically Cleansed by the Jews/Israelis.

EARLY ZIONIST JEWZI TERRORIST GANGS.

Jewish-Zionist Terror.

Today, the "holocaust" tall tale has taken the form of a bizarre cult-like State-enforced and protected religious dogma of the West (i.e. Holocaustianity), as it is illegal to question, dispute or deny in over a dozen European countries, under punishment of heavy fines and imprisonment! This farfetched Zionist-trumpeted conspiracy theory is being utilized by Jewish hucksters and scam artists as a money-making enterprise, a larcenous con of near-planetary proportions which Jewish professor Norman Finkelstein dubbed &#8220;The Holocaust Industry&#8221;. (The Holocaust Industry: Reflection on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering. London: VERSO, 2000.) *On top of that, this myth has been wielded by Jewish zealots as an ideological sledgehammer to club Gentiles over the head with any time non-Jews dare criticize or oppose the global banditry and menacing influence of the self-professed &#8220;Chosen People&#8221;.*

Below are reproductions of many press clippings and articles featuring the cabalistic 6,000,000 number, dating back to the year 1900. Note the ceaseless references to &#8220;6,000,000 Jews&#8221;, the continuous begging for money and land (Palestine), and the term &#8220;holocaust&#8221; used well before the events of the 1940s. It is also noteworthy that the authors of the vast majority of these propaganda articles were the richest of Wall Street&#8217;s Jewish bankers as well as leaders of Zionist pressure groups, Schiffs and Warburgs among them. 

1900-
American Zionist leader, Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, let slip the Zionist agenda behind the Holocaust Hoax: to promote public sympathy for Zionism (Jewish takeover of Palestine).
&#8220;There are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism.&#8221;

ZIONISTS' MASS MEETING - Leaders in the Movement Arouse Enthusiasm at Cooper Union. A PLEA FOR HUMAN JUSTICE Israel's Great Gift to Mankind Recalled -- Dreyfus and European Persecution Mentioned in Convention. - View Article - NYTimes.com

1902-
Under its entry on &#8220;anti-Semitism&#8221;, the tenth edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica references &#8220;Six Million Jews&#8221; of Rumania and Russia being &#8220;systematically degraded.&#8221;

Source link:Holohoax » Prothink.org

* Holocaust Lies exposed again! 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnAXOh0UdM]Holocaust Lies exposed again! - YouTube[/ame]

 The great Jewish lie holocaust truth exposed breaking news 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPc899uUb-A&feature=related]The great jewish lie holocaust truth exposed breaking news - YouTube[/ame]*


----------



## Sallow

Interesting.

Nothing about about the Philippines were 220,000 people were killed.
Or Korea where about 3 million people were killed.
Or Vietnam where about 2 million people were killed.
Or, most recently, Iraq, where about 200,000 people were killed.

Guess it was because, America was doing the killing.


----------



## Unkotare

Oh, the America-hating leftist and the little nazi girl make such an 'interesting' couple...


----------



## westwall

ERGO said:


> You always know when the true believers of Holocaustianity (the brainwashed) are losing the argument...it's when they begin with the invective name calling and ad hominem attacks and are no longer able to counter your facts or argue on the merits of the issue.Name calling and ad hominem... it's all you have left. Pretty pathetic!
> 
> What you call denial of World War 2 history, I and many others call World War 2 fables...stories...LIES!... FABRICATED STORIES!
> 
> ...there's antisemitism because there's ethnocentric chauvinistic Semitism!
> 
> *The Last Days of the Big Lie *
> The Last Days of the Big Lie - YouTube








Yes, the stories are so fabricated that they have virtually the entire series of reports filed by the Einsatzgruppen in the Bundesarchiv, where they detail every bullet used to kill every person.  It was done so that the 3,000 riflemen could get more R&R because, as Lothar Beutel (leader of one of the gruppen) said, "we wouldn't treat our dogs like this" and it was bothering the men involved, hence the request for more R&R.

You are a ignorant troll.


----------



## westwall

Sallow said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Nothing about about the Philippines were 220,000 people were killed.
> Or Korea where about 3 million people were killed.
> Or Vietnam where about 2 million people were killed.
> Or, most recently, Iraq, where about 200,000 people were killed.
> 
> Guess it was because, America was doing the killing.








Your numbers are way off Sallow.  Those figures are derived as an average per ton of bombs dropped and in Korea and Vietnam the MAJORITY of those bombs were dropped in empty areas.  The Phillipines were under Japanese control and the overwhelming  majority of the Filipinos were killed by the Japanese.

Once again the figures for casualties in Iraq bear no semblence to reality.  Those numbers are promulgated by extremist activists.  Even the UN doesn't use those numbers.  Wikileaks reports half that number of casualties which is still horrible don't get me wrong, but you must remember that Saddam was killing 35,000 per year for the hell of it.  That has stopped.


----------



## Political Junky

Unkotare said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot all the Muslim Zombies that are eating babies brains and boiling their flesh in soup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You joke, but a large number of Muslims literally believe that about Jews.
Click to expand...

Lots of Christians believe that about Jews.


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> Take it to stormfront, adolph, .



Is it OK to remind you that Adolph (Hitler) was a Jew? Can you live with it or are you about to burst with hysteria?


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take it to stormfront, adolph, .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it OK to remind you that Adolph (Hitler) was a Jew? Can you live with it or are you about to burst with hysteria?
Click to expand...




I'm sure they'd love to hear all about it over on stormfront. Get going, headcase.


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> I'm sure they'd love to hear all about it over on stormfront. Get going, headcase.



As I thought, your pea-brain has melted down...

"Adolf Hitler is likely to have had Jewish and African roots, DNA tests have shown."

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...-Q-j_EH-yCD0vy1UA&sig2=0ipb-r7MStEdkYShvklBCA


----------



## Unkotare

They're all there waiting for you to tell them about it. Better hurry.


----------



## mememe

Unkotare said:


> They're all there waiting for you to tell them about it. Better hurry.



It means, you read the article, but your pea-brain can not accommodate the information, thus your current incoherent verbal diarrhea.

I'm satisfied with your reaction.


----------



## Unkotare

Why keep your natural friends waiting? By the way, you never did say where you're from. Are you still too ashamed to mention it? It must be a real shit hole.


----------



## ERGO

westwall said:


> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> You always know when the true believers of Holocaustianity (the brainwashed) are losing the argument...it's when they begin with the invective name calling and ad hominem attacks and are no longer able to counter your facts or argue on the merits of the issue.Name calling and ad hominem... it's all you have left. Pretty pathetic!
> 
> What you call denial of World War 2 history, I and many others call World War 2 fables...stories...LIES!... FABRICATED STORIES!
> 
> ...there's antisemitism because there's ethnocentric chauvinistic Semitism!
> 
> *The Last Days of the Big Lie *
> The Last Days of the Big Lie - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the stories are so fabricated that they have virtually the entire series of reports filed by the Einsatzgruppen in the Bundesarchiv, where they detail every bullet used to kill every person.  It was done so that the 3,000 riflemen could get more R&R because, as Lothar Beutel (leader of one of the gruppen) said, "we wouldn't treat our dogs like this" and it was bothering the men involved, hence the request for more R&R.
> 
> You are a ignorant troll.
Click to expand...


The Jewish inmate's and black soldiers stories about what happened at Auschwitz and the other labor camps were shown to be lies. Jewish inmates contradict themselves in a lot of their stories and the black soldiers, as shown in the documentary Last Days of The Big Lie just flat out lie about their true whereabouts near and at the end of the war. Army records proved that the battalions they were assigned weren't anywhere near any of the labor camps. The black soldiers were paid to lie by Jewish organizations

it is you that is ignorant about the truths of World War 2. *You're an ignoramus posting sophistry.*

* Holocaust Hoax Exposed! listen and learn!*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haev1hExU2g]Holocaust Hoax Exposed! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ERGO

Unkotare said:


> Oh, the America-hating leftist and the little nazi girl make such an 'interesting' couple...



it is quite evident you are incapable of engaging in an adult scholarly debate about World War 2 history. I surmise this is because you are intellectually incapable of engaging in an adult scholarly debate because of a chemical lobotomy and your low IQ stymies any real intellectual investigations and/or debates. You first tried to intimidate me and when that didn't work you resorted to sophomoric ridicule. The sophomoric ridicule is not working either.


----------



## westwall

ERGO said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> You always know when the true believers of Holocaustianity (the brainwashed) are losing the argument...it's when they begin with the invective name calling and ad hominem attacks and are no longer able to counter your facts or argue on the merits of the issue.Name calling and ad hominem... it's all you have left. Pretty pathetic!
> 
> What you call denial of World War 2 history, I and many others call World War 2 fables...stories...LIES!... FABRICATED STORIES!
> 
> ...there's antisemitism because there's ethnocentric chauvinistic Semitism!
> 
> *The Last Days of the Big Lie *
> The Last Days of the Big Lie - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the stories are so fabricated that they have virtually the entire series of reports filed by the Einsatzgruppen in the Bundesarchiv, where they detail every bullet used to kill every person.  It was done so that the 3,000 riflemen could get more R&R because, as Lothar Beutel (leader of one of the gruppen) said, "we wouldn't treat our dogs like this" and it was bothering the men involved, hence the request for more R&R.
> 
> You are a ignorant troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish inmate's and black soldiers stories about what happened at Auschwitz and the other labor camps were shown to be lies. Jewish inmates contradict themselves in a lot of their stories and the black soldiers, as shown in the documentary Last Days of The Big Lie just flat out lie about their true whereabouts near and at the end of the war. Army records proved that the battalions they were assigned weren't anywhere near any of the labor camps. The black soldiers were paid to lie by Jewish organizations
> 
> it is you that is ignorant about the truths of World War 2. *You're an ignoramus posting sophistry.*
> 
> * Holocaust Hoax Exposed! listen and learn!*
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haev1hExU2g]Holocaust Hoax Exposed! - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...







Had to look in the dictionary for that insult did you?  Here's the deal idiot.  The BUNDESARCHIV has the actual documents.  I've actually read them.  You have not, you are an ignorant fool, you will allways be an ignorant fool.  You are flirting with trolldom.  When you finish devolving to that level I will no longer bother responding to you as that is the equivalent of responding to the carpet.

The intellectual level is the same you see.


----------



## ERGO

westwall said:


> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the stories are so fabricated that they have virtually the entire series of reports filed by the Einsatzgruppen in the Bundesarchiv, where they detail every bullet used to kill every person.  It was done so that the 3,000 riflemen could get more R&R because, as Lothar Beutel (leader of one of the gruppen) said, "we wouldn't treat our dogs like this" and it was bothering the men involved, hence the request for more R&R.
> 
> You are a ignorant troll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish inmate's and black soldiers stories about what happened at Auschwitz and the other labor camps were shown to be lies. Jewish inmates contradict themselves in a lot of their stories and the black soldiers, as shown in the documentary Last Days of The Big Lie just flat out lie about their true whereabouts near and at the end of the war. Army records proved that the battalions they were assigned weren't anywhere near any of the labor camps. The black soldiers were paid to lie by Jewish organizations
> 
> it is you that is ignorant about the truths of World War 2. *You're an ignoramus posting sophistry.*
> 
> * Holocaust Hoax Exposed! listen and learn!*
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haev1hExU2g]Holocaust Hoax Exposed! - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had to look in the dictionary for that insult did you?  Here's the deal idiot.  The BUNDESARCHIV has the actual documents.  I've actually read them.  You have not, you are an ignorant fool, you will allways be an ignorant fool.  You are flirting with trolldom.  When you finish devolving to that level I will no longer bother responding to you as that is the equivalent of responding to the carpet.
> 
> The intellectual level is the same you see.
Click to expand...


No, I didn't have to look in the dictionary for the word sophistry, I have a pretty good command of the English language and the word sophistry is an appropriate description of your posts in response to my posts questioning the alleged "holocaust". I believe you had to look up the definition of sophistry and perhaps ignoramus, which would have been a self-revelation for you I'm sure.
Why don't you post a summary of these Bundesarchiv documents you have claimed to have read that makes you the unquestionable pompous authority about the alleged "holocaust". 

I could care less if you respond to my posts or not. I could get sidetracked and start an exchange of insults with you about your lack of intelligence or your know-nothingisms, but that's sophomoric...childish ad hominem. 
I realize the "holocaust' is a hot button issue and taboo to even question in the main stream. Most people tend to be governed by their emotions on this issue and will not even look into the information from people who have honest questions about the alleged "holocaust". Most people that have been indoctrinated (brainwashed) into this alleged "holocaust" do respond in a very hostile redneck manner (being governed by their emotions). Instead of arguing on the merits of the argument a lot of people will engage in a vicious attack on your character and won't even attempt to refute the information in a civil manner, which tells me a lot.


----------



## westwall

ERGO said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ERGO said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish inmate's and black soldiers stories about what happened at Auschwitz and the other labor camps were shown to be lies. Jewish inmates contradict themselves in a lot of their stories and the black soldiers, as shown in the documentary Last Days of The Big Lie just flat out lie about their true whereabouts near and at the end of the war. Army records proved that the battalions they were assigned weren't anywhere near any of the labor camps. The black soldiers were paid to lie by Jewish organizations
> 
> it is you that is ignorant about the truths of World War 2. *You're an ignoramus posting sophistry.*
> 
> * Holocaust Hoax Exposed! listen and learn!*
> 
> Holocaust Hoax Exposed! - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had to look in the dictionary for that insult did you?  Here's the deal idiot.  The BUNDESARCHIV has the actual documents.  I've actually read them.  You have not, you are an ignorant fool, you will allways be an ignorant fool.  You are flirting with trolldom.  When you finish devolving to that level I will no longer bother responding to you as that is the equivalent of responding to the carpet.
> 
> The intellectual level is the same you see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I didn't have to look in the dictionary for the word sophistry, I have a pretty good command of the English language and the word sophistry is an appropriate description of your posts in response to my posts questioning the alleged "holocaust". I believe you had to look up the definition of sophistry and perhaps ignoramus, which would have been a self-revelation for you I'm sure.
> Why don't you post a summary of these Bundesarchiv documents you have claimed to have read that makes you the unquestionable pompous authority about the alleged "holocaust".
> 
> I could care less if you respond to my posts or not. I could get sidetracked and start an exchange of insults with you about your lack of intelligence or your know-nothingisms, but that's sophomoric...childish ad hominem.
> I realize the "holocaust' is a hot button issue and taboo to even question in the main stream. Most people tend to be governed by their emotions on this issue and will not even look into the information from people who have honest questions about the alleged "holocaust". Most people that have been indoctrinated (brainwashed) into this alleged "holocaust" do respond in a very hostile redneck manner (being governed by their emotions). Instead of arguing on the merits of the argument a lot of people will engage in a vicious attack on your character and won't even attempt to refute the information in a civil manner, which tells me a lot.
Click to expand...







Arguing what based on what arguments?  The Germans were anal about records and photographic records of their conquests and solutions to problems.  The Wansee Conference meeting minutes are extant, thus for those who wish to read them they can.

The German records state unequivocally that the holocaust occured.  The people around the camps acknowledge the history.  The only ones who don't are anti-semitic revisionists with a political agenda.

Thank you but I'll read the real history, not the manufactured nonsense you choose to believe.


----------



## koshergrl

Interesting thread. I continue to be amazed at how revoltingly depraved some are.


----------



## AbeBird

ekrem said:


> Ismail Enver did not commit any genocide.
> He combatted terrorists.[/IMG]



Ismail Enver Pesha was an instigator of the Aramenian Genocide. He played a major role and took the first steps to implement the CUP blueprint for genocide by ordering the Armenians recruits in the in the Ottoman forces to be disarmed and reassigned to labor battalions before their summery executions.  http://www.turkeyswar.com/whoswho/enver/0710.JPG


----------



## eots

its very unfortunate but the suffering of Jews in ww2 has been shamelessly exploited and used as a propaganda tool


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICL12z9XIiY]The Last Days of the Big Lie - (Part 2 of 9) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9kq287M7-E&feature=relmfu]The Last Days of the Big-Lie - (Part 5 of 9) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## AbeBird

ERGO said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the America-hating leftist and the little nazi girl make such an 'interesting' couple...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is quite evident you are incapable of engaging in an adult scholarly debate about World War 2 history. I surmise this is because you are intellectually incapable of engaging in an adult scholarly debate because of a chemical lobotomy and your low IQ stymies any real intellectual investigations and/or debates. You first tried to intimidate me and when that didn't work you resorted to sophomoric ridicule. The sophomoric ridicule is not working either.
Click to expand...


RRGO , When we are talking about "adult scholarly debate about World War 2 history" you better be silent !!!!!

You better educate yourself by reading the truth and not surrending to your antisemitic feelings!

Holocaust Facts - 33 Facts You Should Know About the Holocaust
BBC - Press Office - Auschwitz facts
Auschwitz &mdash; History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts
 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANEYUQ22VSE&feature=relmfu]Rudolf Hoess, former Auschwitz commandant, testifying at the Nuremberg trial, April 15, 1946 - YouTube[/ame]
Rudolf Hoess, the first commander of Auschwitz extermination camp, admits applying the "Final solution for the Jewish people" started in Auschwitz, 1941.


----------



## mememe

AbeBird said:


> Rudolf Hoess, the first commander of Auschwitz extermination camp, admits applying the "Final solution for the Jewish people" started in Auschwitz, 1941.



I trust you can read English?

Please, point me to the words of Rudolf Hoess that say the "final solution" was about EXTERMINATION of Jews!!!!!

On the other hand, Nazis were working alongside US Zionist Jewish organisations on RESETTLEMENT of European Jews into Palestine. The very Jews that later on were included into the figure of "6 million" as "victims of Holocaust"!
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...UTB4tQNv70LWY-Myg&sig2=k9Qm_kiPCImY-fmSvo_qjA


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> AbeBird said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rudolf Hoess, the first commander of Auschwitz extermination camp, admits applying the "Final solution for the Jewish people" started in Auschwitz, 1941.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I trust you can read English?
> 
> Please, point me to the words of Rudolf Hoess that say the "final solution" was about EXTERMINATION of Jews!!!!!
> 
> On the other hand, Nazis were working alongside US Zionist Jewish organisations on RESETTLEMENT of European Jews into Palestine. The very Jews that later on were included into the figure of "6 million" as "victims of Holocaust"!
> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...UTB4tQNv70LWY-Myg&sig2=k9Qm_kiPCImY-fmSvo_qjA
Click to expand...











The term was coined here.  Read the minutes and learn something.

"In conclusion the different types of possible solutions were discussed, during which discussion both Gauleiter Dr. Meyer and State Secretary Dr. Bühler took the position that certain preparatory activities for the final solution should be carried out immediately in the territories in question, in which process alarming the populace must be avoided."


MINUTES OF THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE: Where the "Final Solution" was planned over lunch


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> The term was coined here.  Read the minutes and learn something.
> 
> "In conclusion the different types of possible solutions were discussed, during which discussion both Gauleiter Dr. Meyer and State Secretary Dr. Bühler took the position that certain preparatory activities for the final solution should be carried out immediately in the territories in question, in which process alarming the populace must be avoided."
> 
> 
> MINUTES OF THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE: Where the "Final Solution" was planned over lunch



Once again: POINT ME TO THE WORDS THAT STATE THAT "FINAL SOLUTION" MEANT EXTERMINATION!!!!!!!


----------



## koshergrl

ERGO said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you girls giggle and have pillow fights in your little pink nazi pajamas? How precious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Because I like you so much stinky monkey butt...it's back to stating my case about the holohoax:*
> 
> Perhaps you're a Jewzi stinky monkey butt...here goes
> 
> *Is it just coincidental that the flimsy and farcical story of 6,000,000 Jews being murdered in gas chambers and burned up in ovens in concentration camps during WWII gave the Jews the impetus and PR ammunition they needed to make their gallant return to the promised land at the wars end*, *occupying and ethnically cleansing much of Palestine through terrorism and force of arms, establishing a racist/apartheid Jewish state called Israel in 1948? And this all just happens to fit the previously cited ancient Torah prophecy to the letter? I hardly think so!*
> 
> TOWNS DESTROYED AND/OR ETHNICALLY CLEANSED
> BY THE JEWZIS/ISRAELIS.
> 
> Towns Destroyed and/or Ethnically Cleansed by the Jews/Israelis.
> 
> EARLY ZIONIST JEWZI TERRORIST GANGS.
> 
> Jewish-Zionist Terror.
> 
> Today, the "holocaust" tall tale has taken the form of a bizarre cult-like State-enforced and protected religious dogma of the West (i.e. Holocaustianity), as it is illegal to question, dispute or deny in over a dozen European countries, under punishment of heavy fines and imprisonment! This farfetched Zionist-trumpeted conspiracy theory is being utilized by Jewish hucksters and scam artists as a money-making enterprise, a larcenous con of near-planetary proportions which Jewish professor Norman Finkelstein dubbed The Holocaust Industry. (The Holocaust Industry: Reflection on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering. London: VERSO, 2000.) *On top of that, this myth has been wielded by Jewish zealots as an ideological sledgehammer to club Gentiles over the head with any time non-Jews dare criticize or oppose the global banditry and menacing influence of the self-professed Chosen People.*
> 
> Below are reproductions of many press clippings and articles featuring the cabalistic 6,000,000 number, dating back to the year 1900. Note the ceaseless references to 6,000,000 Jews, the continuous begging for money and land (Palestine), and the term holocaust used well before the events of the 1940s. It is also noteworthy that the authors of the vast majority of these propaganda articles were the richest of Wall Streets Jewish bankers as well as leaders of Zionist pressure groups, Schiffs and Warburgs among them.
> 
> 1900-
> American Zionist leader, Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, let slip the Zionist agenda behind the Holocaust Hoax: to promote public sympathy for Zionism (Jewish takeover of Palestine).
> There are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism.
> 
> ZIONISTS' MASS MEETING - Leaders in the Movement Arouse Enthusiasm at Cooper Union. A PLEA FOR HUMAN JUSTICE Israel's Great Gift to Mankind Recalled -- Dreyfus and European Persecution Mentioned in Convention. - View Article - NYTimes.com
> 
> 1902-
> Under its entry on anti-Semitism, the tenth edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica references Six Million Jews of Rumania and Russia being systematically degraded.
> 
> Source link:Holohoax » Prothink.org
> 
> *Holocaust Lies exposed again! *
> *[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnAXOh0UdM"]Holocaust Lies exposed again! - YouTube[/ame]*
> 
> * The great Jewish lie holocaust truth exposed breaking news
> 
> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPc899uUb-A&feature=related"]The great jewish lie holocaust truth exposed breaking news - YouTube[/ame]*
Click to expand...

*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K08akOt2kuo]Springtime for Hitler - The Producers(1968) - YouTube[/ame]*


----------



## mememe

koshergrl

Yours is a typical response of a propaganda damaged imbecile.


----------



## koshergrl

I thought it was right in keeping with the garbage you've posted so far.


----------



## mememe

koshergrl said:


> I thought it was right in keeping with the garbage you've posted so far.



The only person posting garbage here is you. Even westwall attempted to support his views with some evidence (pity he didn't bother reading his own link).


----------



## koshergrl

"The Great Jewish Lie"...lololol...

Everything you and your fellow nazi ergo have posted is garbage. westwall is giving you a lot more credit than I ever will. I don't think extremist wackos deserve carefully considered response.

You belong in jail.


----------



## mememe

koshergrl said:


> "The Great Jewish Lie"...lololol...
> 
> Everything you and your fellow nazi ergo



Some of the top Nazis were Jews.


----------



## mememe

koshergrl said:


> You belong in jail.



Why?

Because we do not subscribe to Zionist propaganda?

In what definition of "democracy" and "freedom of thought or speech" is there a postulate that one has to obey Zionist dogmas?


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The term was coined here.  Read the minutes and learn something.
> 
> "In conclusion the different types of possible solutions were discussed, during which discussion both Gauleiter Dr. Meyer and State Secretary Dr. Bühler took the position that certain preparatory activities for the final solution should be carried out immediately in the territories in question, in which process alarming the populace must be avoided."
> 
> 
> MINUTES OF THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE: Where the "Final Solution" was planned over lunch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again: POINT ME TO THE WORDS THAT STATE THAT "FINAL SOLUTION" MEANT EXTERMINATION!!!!!!!
Click to expand...






READ the minutes moron.  For a person who claims to read English you sure have a serious problem with comprehension.  The minutes spell it out very clearly. That's why they wanted to initiate the process early to avoid scaring the targets.


----------



## westwall

mememe said:


> koshergrl
> 
> Yours is a typical response of a propaganda damaged imbecile.








Pot, meet kettle....


----------



## westwall

koshergrl said:


> "The Great Jewish Lie"...lololol...
> 
> Everything you and your fellow nazi ergo have posted is garbage. westwall is giving you a lot more credit than I ever will. I don't think extremist wackos deserve carefully considered response.
> 
> You belong in jail.







No, not in jail.  It's better he spew his bile so we can better identify the idiots like him who "believe".


----------



## mememe

westwall said:


> READ the minutes moron.  .



All right, moron, let's read them together since you clearly did not bother reading your own link before posting it.

"...The Reichsführer-SS and the Chief of the German Police (Chief of the Security Police and the SD) was entrusted with the official central handling of *the final solution of the Jewish question* without regard to geographic borders. The Chief of the Security Police and the SD then gave a short report of the struggle which has been carried on thus far against this enemy, the essential points being the following:

a) *the expulsion* of the Jews from every sphere of life of the German people,

b) *the expulsion *of the Jews from the living space of the German people.

In carrying out these efforts, an increased and planned acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory was started, as the only possible present solution.

By order of the Reich Marshal, a *Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration* was set up in January 1939 and the Chief of the Security Police and SD was entrusted with the management. Its most important tasks were

a) to make all necessary arrangements for the preparation for an *increased emigration* of the Jews,

b) to direct the flow of *emigration*,

c) to speed the procedure of *emigration* in each individual case..."

I don't know what you read, but the words in YOUR link say "expulsion" and "emigration". Not "execution" or "extermination".

Let's continue...
"...*The Jews themselves, or their Jewish political organizations, financed the emigration.*... Up to 30 October 1941, these foreign Jews donated a total of around 9,500,000 dollars..."
In other words, Jews living outside of Europe (in US) PARTICIPATED in the "final solution" for their European brothers. Interesting "Holocaust", isn't it?

But let's continue...
"...Under proper guidance, *in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival *(see the experience of history.)..."

Well? Where are the plans for "extermination" or "execution"?


----------



## mememe

Statistics for Auschwitz:

Out 1.1 million Jews approximately 960 000 were killed. That would be 87%.

In the same Auschwitz out of 15 000 Soviet POW all 15 000 were killed. 100%
Out of 23 000 Gipsies 21 000 were killed -- 91%.

Do we hear about "Soviet POW Holocaust" or "Gipsy Holocaust"?!


----------



## koshergrl

mememe said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> You belong in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because we do not subscribe to Zionist propaganda?
> 
> In what definition of "democracy" and "freedom of thought or speech" is there a postulate that one has to obey Zionist dogmas?
Click to expand...

 
No, because you defend and deny the criminal acts of one of the foulest regimes that ever marched across the face of the earth.

Pukes.


----------



## mememe

koshergrl said:


> No, because you defend and deny the criminal acts of one of the foulest regimes that ever marched across the face of the earth.
> 
> .




Where?!
Quote MY WORDS in defence or denial of criminal acts of Nazis? How can I if that war took the lives of 29 million of Soviet people alone! And millions of others!

I do not deny nor defend the crimes committed by Nazis. Neither do I deny or defend crimes committed by Zionists, one of these crimes is Zionist privatisation of the tragedy suffered by people all over Europe at the hands of Nazis (many of whom were Jews) during WW2!

You on the other hand condone Zionist criminals!
So, by your own standards, pack your bags and fuck off to prison. Better yet, jump off the roof to spare the world your genepool. Zionist morons like you do not deserve to be called human.


----------



## koshergrl

ho hum. Same old same old. I do appreciate the fact that you consider those who disagree with you to be less than human...another trait you share with the nazi monsters.


----------



## Sallow

Two Thumbs said:


> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)	49-78,000,000
> Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945)	12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
> Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)	8,000,000
> Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)	6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
> Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)	5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
> Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20)	1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
> Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)	1,700,000
> Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)	1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
> Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)	1,500,000
> Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)	1,000,000
> Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)	900,000
> Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)	800,000
> Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88)	600,000
> Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987)	570,000
> Sukarno (Communists 1965-66)	500,000
> Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39)	500,000? (Chinese civilians)
> Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002)	400,000
> Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001)	400,000
> Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979)	300,000
> Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71)	 300,000 (Bangladesh)
> Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII)	300,000
> Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97)	?
> Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996)	220,000
> Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000)	200,000
> Suharto (Aceh, East Timor, New Guinea, 1975-98)	200,000
> Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56)	200,000
> Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972)	150,000
> Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99)	100,000
> Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999)	100,000
> Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79)	?
> *Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974)	70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)*
> Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83)	70,000
> Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71)	60,000
> Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic, 1930-61)	50,000
> Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990)	40,000
> Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947)	30,000 (popular uprising)
> Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20)	30,000 (dissidents executed)
> Francisco Franco (Spain)	30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
> Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999)	30,000
> L*yndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968)	30,000*
> Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez (El Salvador, 1932)	30,000
> Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000)	25,000
> Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89)	20,000
> Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority)	20,000
> Bashir Assad (Syria, 2012)	14,000
> Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83)	13,000
> Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957)	10,000 (war in Algeria)
> Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion)	10,000
> Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997)	6,000
> Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001)	3,500
> Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973)	3,000
> Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06)	2,000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your list missed some obvious and needed people.
> 
> FDR; 418,500 Americans
> JFK; 58,282 KIA  1,664 MIA  65-119 died in captivity Americans
> Truman; 128,650  Americans
> Wilson; 320,518  Americans
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me what all these men have in common?
Click to expand...


You left out Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, and George W. Bush..why is that?

And Eisenhower.

Those numbers on Johnson and Nixon are way off. They were responsible for millions of deaths. At least 2 to 3 million.


----------



## westwall

Sallow said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BecauseIKnow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)	49-78,000,000
> Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945)	12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
> Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)	8,000,000
> Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)	6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
> Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)	5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
> Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20)	1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
> Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)	1,700,000
> Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)	1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
> Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)	1,500,000
> Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)	1,000,000
> Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)	900,000
> Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)	800,000
> Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88)	600,000
> Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987)	570,000
> Sukarno (Communists 1965-66)	500,000
> Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39)	500,000? (Chinese civilians)
> Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002)	400,000
> Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001)	400,000
> Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979)	300,000
> Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71)	 300,000 (Bangladesh)
> Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII)	300,000
> Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97)	?
> Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996)	220,000
> Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000)	200,000
> Suharto (Aceh, East Timor, New Guinea, 1975-98)	200,000
> Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56)	200,000
> Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972)	150,000
> Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99)	100,000
> Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999)	100,000
> Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79)	?
> *Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974)	70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)*
> Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83)	70,000
> Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71)	60,000
> Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic, 1930-61)	50,000
> Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990)	40,000
> Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947)	30,000 (popular uprising)
> Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20)	30,000 (dissidents executed)
> Francisco Franco (Spain)	30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
> Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999)	30,000
> L*yndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968)	30,000*
> Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez (El Salvador, 1932)	30,000
> Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000)	25,000
> Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89)	20,000
> Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority)	20,000
> Bashir Assad (Syria, 2012)	14,000
> Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83)	13,000
> Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957)	10,000 (war in Algeria)
> Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion)	10,000
> Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997)	6,000
> Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001)	3,500
> Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973)	3,000
> Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06)	2,000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your list missed some obvious and needed people.
> 
> FDR; 418,500 Americans
> JFK; 58,282 KIA  1,664 MIA  65-119 died in captivity Americans
> Truman; 128,650  Americans
> Wilson; 320,518  Americans
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me what all these men have in common?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You left out Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, and George W. Bush..why is that?
> 
> And Eisenhower.
> 
> Those numbers on Johnson and Nixon are way off. They were responsible for millions of deaths. At least 2 to 3 million.
Click to expand...






How do you figure that for Nixon?  As much as I detest the man he got us out of Vietnam.  You should reserve your ire for Johnson who perpetrated that particular outrage.


----------



## Unkotare

ERGO said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the America-hating leftist and the little nazi girl make such an 'interesting' couple...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is quite evident you are incapable of engaging in an adult scholarly debate about World War 2 history. I surmise this is because you are intellectually incapable of engaging in an adult scholarly debate because of a chemical lobotomy and your low IQ stymies any real intellectual investigations and/or debates. You first tried to intimidate me and when that didn't work you resorted to sophomoric ridicule. The sophomoric ridicule is not working either.
Click to expand...



How are you two getting along? Do you think it will last? Are you catcher or pitcher? Nevermind, I don't really want to know.


----------



## AbeBird

mememe said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again: POINT ME TO THE WORDS THAT STATE THAT "FINAL SOLUTION" MEANT EXTERMINATION!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Rudolf Franz Höss *
> In his Prison Memoirs, written by Adolf Eichmann shortly before his execution for crimes against humanity, Eichmann recounts how he was assigned in early 1942 to visit the Auschwitz death camp and* report back to superiors on the killing of Jews. Methods were still crude, but represented a gruesome foretaste of the factory-style gas chambers and crematoria that were to follow. * _*Höss, the Kommandant, told me that he used sulfuric acid to kill. Round cotton wool filters were soaked with this poison and thrown into the rooms where the Jews were assembled. The poison was instantly fatal. He burned the corpses on an iron grill, in the open air. He led me to a shallow ditch where a large number of corpses had just been burned.*_
> *Rudolf Höss found that gassing by carbon monoxide, the recommended method, was inefficient and introduced the cyanide gas Zyklon B. He later recalled:*
> 
> *The gassing was carried out in the detention cells of Block 11. Protected by a gas mask, I watched the killing myself. In the crowded cells, death came instantaneously the moment the Zyklon B was thrown in. A short, almost smothered cry and it was all over*... *I must even admit that this gassing set my mind at rest, for the mass extermination of the Jews was to start soon, and at that time neither Eichmann nor I was certain as to how these mass killings were to be carried out. It would be by gas, but we did not know which gas and how it was to be used. Now we had the gas, and we had established a procedure.*
> *Rudolf Höss related before his execution in 1947 (in Auschwitz death camp itself) how he often felt weak-kneed at having to push hundreds of screaming, pleading children into the gas chambers: "I did, however, always feel ashamed of this weakness of mine after I talked to Adolf Eichmann. He explained to me that it was especially the children who have to be killed first, because where was the logic in killing a generation of older people and leaving alive a generation of young people who can be possible avengers of their parents and can constitute a new biological cell for the reemerging of this people."*
> 
> _These are excerpts from Höss' signed testimony given at the Post-War Nuremberg War Crime trials: _
> RUDOLF FRANZ FERDINAND HÖSS, being first duly sworn, depose and say as follows:
> 
> "I am forty* six years old, and have been a member of the NSDAPI since 1922; a member of the SS since 1934; a member of the Waffen*SS since 1939. I was a member from 1 December 1934 of the SS Guard Unit, the so*called Deathshead Formation (Totenkopf Verband).
> 
> I have been constantly associated with the administration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachsenhausen from 1938 - 5/1/1940, when I was appointed Kommandant of Auschwitz. *I commanded Auschwitz until 12/1/1943 and estimate that at least 2.5 million victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease making a total dead of about 3 million. This figure represents about 70-80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries; included among the executed and burned were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of prisoner-of-war cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens, mostly Jewish, from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.*
> 
> until 12/1/1943 and know by reason of my continued duties in the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps, WVHA, that these mass executions continued as stated above.* All mass executions by gassing took place under the direct order, supervision, and responsibility of RSHA. I received all orders for carrying out these mass executions directly from RSHA.*
> _*The 'Final Solution' of the Jewish question meant the complete extermination of all Jews in Europe. I was ordered to establish extermination facilities at Auschwitz in 6/1941. *_ *At that time, there were already in the General Government three other extermination camps: Belzek, Treblinka and Wolzek. These camps were under the Einsatzkommando of the Security Police and SD.* I visited Treblinka to find out how they carried out their exterminations. The camp commandant at Treblinka told me that he had liquidated 80,000 in the course of one-half year. He was principally concerned with liquidating all the Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto. *He used monoxide gas, and I did not think that his methods were very efficient. So when I set up the extermination building at Auschwitz, I used Zyklon B, which was a crystallized prussic acid which we dropped into the death chamber from a small opening. It took from 3-15 minutes to kill the people in the death chamber, depending upon climatic conditions. We knew when the people were dead because their screaming stopped. We usually waited about one-half hour before we opened the doors and removed the bodies. After the bodies were removed our special Kommandos took off the rings and extracted the gold from the teeth of the corpses.*
> 
> Another improvement we made over Treblinka was that *we built our gas chamber to accommodate 2000 people at one time whereas at Treblinka their 10 gas chambers only accommodated 200 people each. * *The way we selected our victims was as follows: We had two SS doctors on duty at Auschwitz to examine the incoming transports of prisoners. The prisoners would be marched by one of the doctors who would make spot decisions as they walked by. Those who were fit for work were sent into the camp.* *Others were sent immediately to the extermination plants.* *Children of tender years were invariably exterminated since by reason of their youth they were unable to work. Still another improvement we made over Treblinka was that at Treblinka the victims almost always knew that they were to be exterminated and at Auschwitz we endeavored to fool the victims into thinking that they were to go through a delousing process.*
> *Of course, frequently they realized our true intentions and we sometimes had riots and difficulties due to that fact. Very frequently women would hide their children under the clothes, but of course when we found them we would send the children in to be exterminated. We were required to carry out these exterminations in secrecy but of course the foul and nauseating stench from the continuous burning of bodies permeated the entire area and all of the people living in the surrounding communities knew that exterminations were going on at Auschwitz.*
> We received from time to time special prisoners from the local Gestapo office. The SS doctors killed such prisoners by injections of benzine. Doctors had orders to write ordinary death certificates and could put down any reason at all for the cause of death.
> 
> From time to time we conducted medical experiments on women inmates, including sterilization and experiments relating to cancer. Most of the people who died under these experiments had been already condemned to death by the Gestapo.
> 
> *I understand English as it is written above. The above statements are true; this declaration is made by me voluntarily and without compulsion; after reading over the statement I have signed and executed the same at Nuremberg, Germany, on the 4/5/1946.  - Rudolf Höss."*
> 
> This findings were and still located in Auschwitz concentration camp today. If you visit there you can see it by your own eyes.
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## AbeBird

*Nurenberg Trial Testimony of Rudolf Hoess, Commandant of Auschwitz *


DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it true that in 1941 you were ordered to Berlin to see Himmler? Please state briefly what was discussed. 
HOESS: Yes. In the summer of 1941 1 was summoned to Berlin to Reichsfáhrer SS Himmler to receive personal orders. He told me something to the effect--I do not remember the exact words--*that the Fuffrer had given the order for a final solution of the Jewish question. We, the SS, must carry out that order. If it is not carried out now then the Jews will later on destroy the German people. He had chosen Auschwitz on account of its easy access by rail and also because the extensive site offered space for measures ensuring isolation. *
DR. KAUFFMANN: During that conference did Himmler tell you that this planned action had to be treated as a secret Reich matter? 
HOESS: Yes. He stressed that point. He told me that I was not even allowed to say anything about it to my immediate superior Gruppenfáhrer Glácks. This conference concerned the two of us only and I was to observe the strictest secrecy.
DR. KAUFFMANN: What was the position held by Glácks whom you have just mentioned? 
HOESS: Gruppenfáhrer Glácks was, so to speak, the inspector of concentration camps at that time and he was immediately subordinate to the Reichsfáhrer. 
DR. KAUFFMANN: Does the expression "secret Reich matter" mean that no one was permitted to make even the slightest allusion to outsiders without endangering his own life? 
HOESS: Yes, "secret Reich matter" means that no one was allowed to speak about these matters with any person and that everyone promised upon his life to keep the utmost secrecy. 
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did you happen to break that promise? 
HOESS: No, not until the end of 1942. 
DR. KAUFFMANN: Why do you mention that date? Did you talk to outsiders after that date? 
HOESS: At the end of 1942 my wife's curiosity was aroused by remarks made by the then Gauleiter of Upper Silesia, regarding happenings in my camp. She asked me whether this was the truth and I admitted that it was. That was my only breach of the promise I had given to the Reichsfáhrer.  Otherwise I have never talked about it to anyone else. 
DR. KAUFFMANN: When did you meet Eichmann? 
HOESS: *I met Eichmann about 4 weeks after having received that order from the Reichsfáhrer.  He came to Auschwitz to discuss the details with me on the carrying out of the given order. As the Reichsfáhrer had told me during our discussion, he had instructed Eichmann to discuss the carrying out of the order with me and I was to receive all further instructions from him. *
DR. KAUFFMANN: Will you briefly tell whether it is correct that the camp of Auschwitz was completely isolated, describing the measures taken to insure as far as possible the secrecy of carrying out of the task given to you. 
HOESS: The Auschwitz camp as such was about 3 kilometers away from the town. About 20,000 acres of the surrounding country had been cleared of all former inhabitants, and the entire area could be entered only by SS men or civilian employees who had special passes. *The actual compound called "Birkenau," where later on the extermination camp was constructed, was situated 2 kilometers from the Auschwitz camp. The camp installations themselves, that is to say, the provisional installations used at first were deep in the woods and could from nowhere be detected by the eye.* In addition to that, this area had been declared a prohibited area and even members of the SS who did not have a special pass could not enter it. Thus, as far as one could judge, it was impossible for anyone except authorized persons to enter that area. 
DR. KAUFFMANN: And then the railway transports arrived. During what period did these transports arrive and about how many people, roughly, were in such a transport? 
HOESS: During the whole period up until 1944 certain operations were carried out at irregular intervals in the different countries, so that one cannot speak of a continuous flow of incoming transports.  It was always a matter of 4 to 6 weeks. During those 4 to 6 weeks two to three trains, containing about 2,000 persons each, arrived daily. These trains were first of all shunted to a siding in the Birkenau region and the locomotives then went back.* The guards who had accompanied the transport had to leave the area at once and the persons who had been brought in were taken over by guards belonging to the camp. 
They were there examined by two SS medical officers as to their fitness for work. The internees capable of work at once marched to Auschwitz or to the camp at Birkenau and those incapable of work were at first taken to the provisional installations, then later to the newly constructed crematoria. *
DR. KAUFFMANN: During an interrogation I had with you the other day you told me that about 60 men were designated to receive these transports, and that these 60 persons, too, had been bound to the same secrecy described before. Do you still maintain that today? 
HOESS: Yes, these 60 men were always on hand to take the internees not capable of work to these provisional installations and later on to the other ones. This group, consisting of about ten leaders and subleaders, as well as doctors and medical personnel, had repeatedly been told, both in writing and verbally, that they were bound to the strictest secrecy as to all that went on in the camps.

* Read the full Testimony:*
Testimony of Rodolf Hoess in the Nuremberg Trial


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## AbeBird

German &#8220;intellectuals&#8221;, as Alfred Rosenberg and Julius Streicher, arranged the theft of fine art, assets and furniture from the Jews who were sent to be executed in the concentration and extermination camp all over Europe. Nuremberg court found them guilty by their own admission and by their part testimonies.   

Ernst Kaltenbrunner, Chief of RSHA (an organization which includes offices of the Gestapo, the SD, and the Criminal Police) and Chief of Security Police admitted in Nuremberg Tribunal that the Gestapo was the main contractor to apply the &#8220;Final Solution&#8221; which achieved the murder of 6 million Jews whom 2 million of them were killed by the Einsatzgruppen and the rest 4 million in various concentration camps (most of them at Auschwitz).


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## mememe

AbeBird said:


> *Rudolf Franz Höss *
> In his Prison Memoirs, written by Adolf Eichmann shortly before his execution for crimes against humanity, Eichmann recounts how he was assigned in early 1942 to visit the Auschwitz death camp and* report back to superiors on the killing of Jews. Methods were still crude, but represented a gruesome foretaste of the factory-style gas chambers and crematoria that were to follow. *


*

Are you deliberately acting an idiot, or are you an idiot by nature?

No one is disputing that Nazis were killing people of all ethnicities. No one is disputing that Nazis were committing mass murders of people of all ethnicities.

But "mass murder" doesn't mean "genocide". And the so called "final solution" WAS NOT a plan for genocide of the Jews.

More to the point: American wealthy Jews, especially of Wall Street were COLLABORATING with the Nazis on "final solution". They were financing Nazi's "activities" in Europe, in particular against European Jews, so that Nazis continue making life for European Jews living hell forcing them to emigrate to Palestine. 

Do you understand that?*


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## koshergrl

soooo...are you arguing that the holocaust wasn't really a holocaust? Just mass murder? And the jews were in on it?

That's...interesting.....


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