# Who do you think won the debate?



## NOBama (Sep 26, 2008)

I gotta give it to McCain.


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## Ninja (Sep 26, 2008)

McCain started off shaky but finished incredibly strong.

Not being a Kool-Aid guzzling Leftist, I'll say McCain by unanimous decision. 

As I wrote in the other thread, no knockout punches from either.


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

Heh, i'm the first to vote


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## WillowTree (Sep 26, 2008)

McCain won. ticked Obama off and you could tell it.


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

Ninja said:


> McCain started off shaky but finished incredibly strong.
> 
> Not being a Kool-Aid guzzling Leftist, I'll say McCain by unanimous decision.
> 
> As I wrote in the other thread, no knockout punches from either.


i called it a tie
if pressed, i would give a slight edge to McCain
but very slight
Obama did better than i expected


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## SwingVoter (Sep 26, 2008)

I voted for Mac in this debate, but I'm voting for O Nov 4th.


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## AVG-JOE (Sep 26, 2008)

I still think Obama is the best man for the job, but it is nice to like both of them instead of neither, as per usual.

-Joe


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## Ninja (Sep 26, 2008)

The recurring themes from each candidate:

Obama:

"I agree with John McCain"

McCain:

"Senator Obama doesn't understand."


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Sep 26, 2008)

I think McCain attacked Obama too much and Obama tried to be too nice.  I won't vote on who won because I think they both lost.


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## Ninja (Sep 26, 2008)

I do think each did better than the two guys who debated in 2004.


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> I think McCain attacked Obama too much and Obama tried to be too nice.  I won't vote on who won because I think they both lost.


no, be honest
Ron Paul won in your eyes


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## DavidS (Sep 26, 2008)

Obama is the best man for the job and I agree with Obama on more policies than McCain, but in the end, McCain won the debate.


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## SwingVoter (Sep 26, 2008)

would've been more entertaining with some 3rd partiers, would have gotten a good laugh if they had Barr up there


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## GamTrak (Sep 26, 2008)

McCain looked like a old man trying to talk down to someone.  He tried to lecture on something that was a bad idea from the start....the Iraq war.

I'm happy to see that Obama held his own and attacked McCain and called him out on the Iraq war and how it has contributed to bankrupting America!

McCain needed to WIN this debate and I don't see where he did it tonight.

Can't wait to see Palin and Biden.  That's if she is still on the ticket.


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## Ninja (Sep 26, 2008)

The Obama people in spin alley aren't claiming victory.


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## Toro (Sep 26, 2008)

It was a draw.  I thought McCain did pretty well, especially on Iran, and I thought he held his own on the economy. But Obama looked more Presidential.

McCain is trailing in the election.  He has to have a decisive victory in the debates or have something turn for him dramatically elsewhere.  Since he did not win decisively tonight, the tactical edge goes to Obama.


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## Modbert (Sep 26, 2008)

Toro said:


> It was a draw.  I thought McCain did pretty well, especially on Iran, and I thought he held his own on the economy. But Obama looked more Presidential.
> 
> McCain is trailing in the election.  He has to have a decisive victory in the debates or have something turn for him dramatically elsewhere.  Since he did not win decisively tonight, the tactical edge goes to Obama.



Agreed somewhat, meanwhile McCain's advisor parrots McCain's talking points on CNN.

CNN is going to have on Joe Biden in a few.


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## Chris (Sep 26, 2008)

McCain lied repeatedly as usual.

I look forward to the fact check.


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## I Missthe North (Sep 26, 2008)

I personally think that Obama started off stronger, but McCain ended stronger.  I would say it ended in a tie, but I understand how you can argue that McCain won.  Obama held his own and McCain failed to really separate himself from somebody that has substantially less experience then him.  Obama get a bit frustrated towards the end, but McCain didn't even have the courage to look Obama in the eye.  That would frustrate me also.



GamTrak said:


> Can't wait to see Palin and Biden.  That's if she is still on the ticket.



I completely agree.  Poor Palin...


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

I Missthe North said:


> I personally think that Obama started off stronger, but McCain ended stronger.  I would say it ended in a tie, but I understand how you can argue that McCain won.  Obama held his own and McCain failed to really separate himself from somebody that has substantially less experience then him.  Obama get a bit frustrated towards the end, but McCain didn't even have the courage to look Obama in the eye.  That would frustrate me also.
> 
> 
> 
> I completely agree.  Poor Palin...


i think you are going to be quite surprised


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## Modbert (Sep 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> i think you are going to be quite surprised



That's if Palin is even on the ticket.

Joe Biden talks to the media about tonight.

Where's Sarah Palin and who is she talking to?


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## Ninja (Sep 26, 2008)

Obama supporters are so fickle.

First it was "McCain's scared, Obama's going to own him."

Charleston Chad even said the debates would be "Old Man Hunting."

Now it's "well, McCain won, but Obama's up in a couple tracking polls that oversampled Democrats and blacks, so Obama won."

I thought the Messiah was a better speaker, guys? I thought McCain was old and feebleminded?


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## Modbert (Sep 26, 2008)

Ninja said:


> Obama supporters are so fickle.
> 
> First it was "McCain's scared, Obama's going to own him."
> 
> ...



And you said the exact same opposite except for McCain's favor.

McCain didn't do as good as you thought he would whether you want to admit it or not.


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## Navy1960 (Sep 26, 2008)

Said this in the other thread, but McCain completely highlighted Obama's inexperience in this debate, especially at the end. The beginning of the debate was pretty much a tie.


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

Modbert said:


> That's if Palin is even on the ticket.
> 
> Joe Biden talks to the media about tonight.
> 
> Where's Sarah Palin and who is she talking to?


you really shouldnt be drinking at your age 
Palin will stay on the ticket
and i look forward to that debate

[youtube]NmRXH7RkCZQ[/youtube]


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## Ninja (Sep 26, 2008)

McCain won. Deal with it. 

As this we aren't in spin alley and this isn't the national arena (and I don't have to worry about swaying anyone's opinions), I'm not going to oblige you in your denail and recitation of DNC talking points you're parroting from TV. 

::;

Ladies and gentlemen, have a great night!


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## Modbert (Sep 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> you really shouldnt be drinking at your age
> Palin will stay on the ticket
> and i look forward to that debate
> 
> [youtube][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmRXH7RkCZQ[/url][/youtube]



Hell after reading some of the stuff people sprout on here I think I should start to take up drinking.


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## Missourian (Sep 26, 2008)

Ninja said:


> I do think each did better than the two guys who debated in 2004.


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## Modbert (Sep 26, 2008)

Missourian said:


>



Is that really saying that much considering it is Dubya and Kerry we're talking about?


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## Caligirl (Sep 26, 2008)

I agree with the general sentiments in the thread. I think McCain won on truthiness and Obama won on truth. So my gut says mccain won, and my head says obama won. I think Obama demonstrated better understanding of growing present day threat, and mccain demonstrated better understanding of history. 

I _like _that Obama was willing to acknowledge common ground. It really is better to start from common ground.  

(For McCain, it must be hard to reach across the aisle when you are incapable of admitting that the other side did anything right. )


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## I Missthe North (Sep 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> i think you are going to be quite surprised



I really don't think I will.  Palin has done a poor job on every single show she has been on thus far.  She clearly lacks experience and knowledge.  Biden has almost forty years of experience and is clearly more polished.  I just don't see it.


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Hell after reading some of the stuff people sprout on here I think I should start to take up drinking.


i fixed the video link
go look


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## Caligirl (Sep 26, 2008)

Missourian said:


>



:metoo:


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

I Missthe North said:


> I really don't think I will.  Palin has done a poor job on every single show she has been on thus far.  She clearly lacks experience and knowledge.  Biden has almost forty years of experience and is clearly more polished.  I just don't see it.


yeah, hes so polished


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## Toro (Sep 26, 2008)

Independents give it to Obama.



> Independents in the MediaCurves focus group gave the debate to Obama 61-39. They also think he won every individual segment. Republicans gave the debate to McCain 90-10, Democrats to Obama 93-7.



FiveThirtyEight.com: Electoral Projections Done Right: Presidential Debate Post-Mortem: Live From Oxford


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## Navy1960 (Sep 26, 2008)

Great line. " Looked into his eyes and saw three letters KGB"  John McCain,, What do you think? most memorable, " I agree John"


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## notomccain (Sep 26, 2008)

consensus  is  obama won. the  only  scientific poll from cbs that  isnt an online  poll had obama winning  40-22-38. luntz  focus group on fox said  obama  won. george will said  obama won. charles krauthammer said  it was a tie


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## Modbert (Sep 26, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> Great line. " Looked into his eyes and saw three letters KGB"  John McCain,, What do you think? most memorable, " I agree John"



I thought my line on the other three disputed that. 

Obama won with independents though, good for us Democrats.


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## I Missthe North (Sep 26, 2008)

Just because Obama is willing to admit when someone else is right does not make him a weak person or a fool.  It just shows that he is willing to admit a good idea when he hears it, unlike McCain.  I appreciate a man who is willing to take the good ideas of others and incorporate them into his own.  It shows he is open minded and willing to listen to others.  Two qualities that are very important in a leader.  Just telling someone "you are wrong" is a stupid way to respond to everything someone else says.  Shows you are not willing to listen to others.


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## Caligirl (Sep 26, 2008)

Most of the heads on MSNBC gave it to McCain.


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## DavidS (Sep 26, 2008)

I found McCain to be extremely dis-respectful when he refused to even look at Obama AND when he kept smirking and scoffing. Barrack Obama is a United States Senator of the United States of America - you do NOT dis-respect that. I don't give a shit what kind of experience McCain has, you don't dis-respect Obama like that. McCain was unable to look Obama in the eyes... even though I felt McCain won the debate, McCain would make a horrible leader. If he can't look his presidential opponent in the eyes, how is he supposed to negotiate nuclear arms deals with Russia or find ways to eliminate terrorism by working with Pakistan?


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## notomccain (Sep 26, 2008)

dick morris who despises  obama said  obama won.


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## GamTrak (Sep 26, 2008)

I just saw Biden on tv and they asked him if he was going to go easy on Palin next week and he started laughing. LMAO  

Since she wants to run with the big dogs then I hope she does a little bit better then she has lately because IF she IS still on the ticket next Thursday, then she may want to withdraw after Biden have her wanting to run under the porch and hang out with the puppys. hehe


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## Navy1960 (Sep 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> Most of the heads on MSNBC gave it to McCain.



Damn Cali thats stunning, MSNBC? isnt that the channel that broadcasts from DNC headquarters everynight? lol j/k Okay someone is asking Robert Wexler who won the debate see if you can guess who he said won? I wont even tell you. lol


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## Caligirl (Sep 26, 2008)

Pat Buchanan, Chris Matthews, the pretty chick, they all gave it to mccain - The black professor guy and Harold ford were leaning Obama, but even Ford was iffy about it. I think David gregory (who anchored and should have been impartial) also thought MccAin won.


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## CA95380 (Sep 26, 2008)

I voted a tie ... because they both sidestepped some questions.

I just wish they could have a debate where they would give their *honest* opinions and what the f*uck they are going to do to fix it .....  without thinking about what their 'party' and/or 'supporters' want them to say, or what they 'should' say.  Just say what you belive and quit dancing around the issues.  With the mess this country is in it would be a breath  of fresh air to hear a stern fix for the problem and what they are going  to do about it!

 Wishful thinking that ain't gonna happen - I know.


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## Caligirl (Sep 26, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> Damn Cali thats stunning, MSNBC? isnt that the channel that broadcasts from DNC headquarters everynight? lol j/k Okay someone is asking Robert Wexler who won the debate see if you can guess who he said won? I wont even tell you. lol



I am not sure who wexler is, I keep thinking waxman. Is wexler conservative> I'm gonna guess Obama.


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## Navy1960 (Sep 26, 2008)

Modbert said:


> I thought my line on the other three disputed that.
> 
> Obama won with independents though, good for us Democrats.



You know whats really funny about that?  Did you see where Luntz focus group was for this election? Anyone? Las Vegas if there were any independants in that room they were next door at the slots.


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## Modbert (Sep 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I found McCain to be extremely dis-respectful when he refused to even look at Obama AND when he kept smirking and scoffing. Barrack Obama is a United States Senator of the United States of America - you do NOT dis-respect that. I don't give a shit what kind of experience McCain has, you don't dis-respect Obama like that. McCain was unable to look Obama in the eyes... even though I felt McCain won the debate, McCain would make a horrible leader. If he can't look his presidential opponent in the eyes, how is he supposed to negotiate nuclear arms deals with Russia or find ways to eliminate terrorism by working with Pakistan?



McCain wouldn't be able to look Putin in the eyes, he'd be too busy napping or drifting off into space with a smirk on his face. (Hey that rhymed )


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## elvis (Sep 26, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I found McCain to be extremely dis-respectful when he refused to even look at Obama AND when he kept smirking and scoffing. Barrack Obama is a United States Senator of the United States of America - you do NOT dis-respect that. I don't give a shit what kind of experience McCain has, you don't dis-respect Obama like that. McCain was unable to look Obama in the eyes... even though I felt McCain won the debate, McCain would make a horrible leader. If he can't look his presidential opponent in the eyes, how is he supposed to negotiate nuclear arms deals with Russia or find ways to eliminate terrorism by working with Pakistan?



can't or unwilling?


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## Navy1960 (Sep 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> I am not sure who wexler is, I keep thinking waxman. Is wexler conservative> I'm gonna guess Obama.



Not hardly Cali, Wexler is the S. Fl. congressmen  (D) that uses his mothers  retirement community as his residence address for Florida when he actually lives in Md.  Funny thing about him is even if he wanted to live there he couldn't it's deed restricted to 55 and over. The difference between him and waxman is something called  a sense of ethics one has it one doesn't


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## notomccain (Sep 26, 2008)

from what  i am seeing all the  objective  polls on all the  networks(not  online  polls) show  obama  the  clear winner.


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## Navy1960 (Sep 26, 2008)

I have a prediction,

Democrats _ OBAMA CLEAR WINNER

Republicans _ McCAIN CLEAR WINNER

Independants _ WHERE'S THE FREE BEER THEN I WILL TELL YOU? 

Seriously though, your going to get who won the debate from who the person is bascially supporting.  Thats unless they trip and fall off the stage or stand there and say I'm sorry what, or look at your watch. Things like that.


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## rayboyusmc (Sep 26, 2008)

Already one poll of 500 independent voters who gave Obama the win with 38% undecided.


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## jschuck12001 (Sep 26, 2008)

notomccain said:


> from what  i am seeing all the  objective  polls on all the  networks(not  online  polls) show  obama  the  clear winner.



I see the same thing, I'm trying to look for a poll that said John Mccain won.  Foreign Policy was supposed to be Mccains strength but I did see Obama step up and challenge him right back and stand his ground.  I dont think I can really say anyone lost or won but a tie for Obama is a win.  I know people are going to talk about Obama agreeing on some points with Mccain but I still dont see why that is an issue because he doesnt agree with him on the key points so there is no doubt where these candidates differ in opinion.  The one thing about Mccain is he didnt answer the question on what the republicans want in the new bailout bill and Obama pointed out the 4 points the dems were looking for.  I felt like Obama did most of the talking and Mccain didnt really say anything of substance.  Another thing is why didnt Mccain ever look at Obama in the eye, his body language was annoying like he had jock itch or something, he seemed so uncomfortable being around Obama, I think its cowardly.  I dont know if he is insecure or just not used to being around black folks.


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## NOBama (Sep 26, 2008)

Obama appeared to get annoyed quickly and often, trying to cut McCain off in mid sentence several times, but McCain stood his ground and didn&#8217;t let him interrupt. 

Beyond that I thought they both held their ground. I found it particularly interesting that Obama didn&#8217;t attempt to justify his budget plan in more detail.

Overall, I still give it to McCain, but, in all honesty, it wasn't the slam-a-rama on Obama I wanted it to be and McCain NEEDED it to be.


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## Tristan (Sep 26, 2008)

I voted and believe that McCain won. (shocker! lol)

The biggest shock to me was that McCain won points on the economy IMO. When Lehrer asked about the effect of passing the big bailout (likely a $700B bailout) Obama could not commit to one thing in his plan to cut money from and shockingly talked about more spending! Just damn, but that was dumb. On foreign policy Obama screwed up and pretended he never wanted to withdrawal from Iraq in 2007 (pre-surge) though he clearly did. (that's on the record) And not only that, he attacked Hillary on that point all through the Dem nominating process.

Add to that the more trivial style points that McCain won. for example, Obama called McCain "John" most of the night while McCain refered to "senator Obama" much more correctly. "John also never got flustered while "Barry" clearly did on a few occasions. All in all, a nice win for McCain who I've always thought of as a "hold your nose and vote" alternative to the foolishly nieve Obama.

*The real test of who won will come in the next few days. My guess is McCain gets a bounce of at least 4 points.*

Time will tell.


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## jschuck12001 (Sep 26, 2008)

NObama said:


> Obama appeared to get annoyed quickly and often, trying to cut McCain off in mid sentence several times, but McCain stood his ground and didnt let him interrupt.
> 
> Beyond that I thought they both held their ground. I found it particularly interesting that Obama didnt attempt to justify his budget plan in more detail.
> 
> Overall, I still give it to McCain, but, in all honesty, it wasn't the slam-a-rama on Obama I wanted it to be and McCain NEEDED it to be.



At least I know where the dems stand on what they want, I didnt hear any clear explanation of what the Republicans want.


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## Psychoblues (Sep 26, 2008)

Hands down, Obama gave McCain an education in foreign affairs and the economy!!!!!!!!


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## notomccain (Sep 26, 2008)

cnn scientific  poll has  it  51-38 obama.

in a stunning development, mccains  best friend, fred thompson, said  mccain missed an opportunity tonight.


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## leahKat (Sep 26, 2008)

No surprise from me Obama  won the debate he talked about  real things he was going to do and his plans. McCain all he talked about was his record.  It was close though  but I have to tell you that this was supposed to be McCains  thing foreign policy .


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## CA95380 (Sep 26, 2008)

leahKat said:


> No surprise from me Obama  won the debate he talked about  real things he was going to do and his plans. McCain all he talked about was his record.  It was close though  but I have to tell you that this was supposed to be McCains  thing foreign policy .



Yeah .... McCain does have a BIG hang'up about the past.  As I told my husband during the debate .... He is still living in  Viet Nam.  McCain is bound and determined to win a war!  He doesn't care which country he is in a war with ... just as long as he wins  one - before he dies!  Scary! 

 It really is sad when you come to think about it.


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## Tristan (Sep 26, 2008)

Oh my...

The Weekly Standard


> Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."



On one point I feared Obama may have scored on McCain it turns out Obama was full of crap. 


Thank you Al Gore for inventing the internet.


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## leahKat (Sep 26, 2008)

CA95380 said:


> Yeah .... McCain does have a BIG hang'up about the past.  As I told my husband during the debate .... He is still living in  Viet Nam.  McCain is bound and determined to win a war!  He doesn't care which country he is in a war with ... just as long as he wins  one - before he dies!  Scary!
> 
> It really is sad when you come to think about it.



Was it just me or did McCain never look at Obama? what was that about?


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## Caligirl (Sep 26, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> I see the same thing, *I'm trying to look for a poll that said John Mccain won*.



Silly you are posting to a poll that says John McCain won.


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## DiveCon (Sep 26, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> Silly you are posting to a poll that says John McCain won.


whats even funnier, all those polls used to claim Ron Paul won


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## Missourian (Sep 26, 2008)

IMO, McCain clearly won the debate, although Obama also did very well,  much better than I expected.  I didn't see McCain make any overt mistakes.  Obama lost big point on Iran.  McCain said "What are you going to do? Say 'No your not'?".  Obama seemed to me at times to be running against George Bush, and I don't think that helped him.  The only misstep I saw from McCain was the no eye contact with Obama, but I don't thing he was intentionally showing a lack of respect.  I think Obama's bigest misstep was agreeing so often with McCain.


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## Navy1960 (Sep 26, 2008)

leahKat said:


> No surprise from me Obama  won the debate he talked about  real things he was going to do and his plans. McCain all he talked about was his record.  It was close though  but I have to tell you that this was supposed to be McCains  thing foreign policy .



Well theres a big surprise, if you had said McCain had won I think I would have fallen over in shock!


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## jschuck12001 (Sep 26, 2008)

Tristan said:


> Oh my...
> 
> The Weekly Standard
> 
> ...



Wrong, CNN played video of what kissinger said and Obama was right on.  Kissinger put out a statement tonight (probably because Johnny boy harassed him) and said that he didnt think it would be good for a 1st year President so he flopped on what he originally said.  Go find the video of what Kissinger said and you will find the facts.


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## leahKat (Sep 26, 2008)

Navy1960 said:


> Well theres a big surprise, if you had said McCain had won I think I would have fallen over in shock!



quiet you or i'll put another Obama sticker on your car.


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## Missourian (Sep 26, 2008)

Tristan said:


> Oh my...
> 
> The Weekly Standard
> 
> ...



That doesn't bode well for Obama.


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## Tristan (Sep 26, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> Wrong, CNN played video of what kissinger said and Obama was right on.  Kissinger put out a statement tonight (probably because Johnny boy harassed him) and said that he didnt think it would be good for a 1st year President so he flopped on what he originally said.  Go find the video of what Kissinger said and you will find the facts.



I already posted what Kissinger said with a link. Find your own vids if you can.

I don't have to prove your argument pal.


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## CA95380 (Sep 26, 2008)

leahKat said:


> Was it just me or did McCain never look at Obama? what was that about?



Never looked at him once!  Like he was afraid he would forget his script ... or lines.  /shrug


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## oreo (Sep 26, 2008)

Ninja said:


> McCain started off shaky but finished incredibly strong.
> 
> Not being a Kool-Aid guzzling Leftist, I'll say McCain by unanimous decision.
> 
> As I wrote in the other thread, no knockout punches from either.




I am listening to some talking heads, govenor of Miss.--who has watched hundreds of debates over the years.  

He states he's never seen a knockout in a debate.  This is the first time we have witnessed a total knockout.

Obama continually interrupting, wearing that frown, after many visual warnings regarding his interruptions, was extremely frustrated.  He could not regain any composure, he did not look like Presidential material.  I have to agree--this wasn't even close---it was a knockout.

*I'll bet Obama wishes he would have agreed to postpone this debate & work on this bail-out plan, ha.ha.*


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## CA95380 (Sep 26, 2008)

Missourian said:


> IMO, McCain clearly won the debate, although Obama also did very well,  much better than I expected.  I didn't see McCain make any overt mistakes.  Obama lost big point on Iran.  McCain said "What are you going to do? Say 'No your not'?".  Obama seemed to me at times to be running against George Bush, and I don't think that helped him.  The only misstep I saw from McCain was the no eye contact with Obama, but I don't thing he was intentionally showing a lack of respect.  I think Obama's bigest misstep was agreeing so often with McCain.



Interesting .... but I do agree that Obama agreed with him too much.  Maybe he was checking to see if he was paying attention or was awake? and could get a reaction?  ..... because McCain wouldn't look at him?   Just kidding.


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## Missourian (Sep 26, 2008)

CA95380 said:


> Interesting .... but I do agree that Obama agreed with him too much.  Maybe he was checking to see if he was paying attention or was awake? and could get a reaction?  ..... because McCain wouldn't look at him?   Just kidding.



LOL


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## WillowTree (Sep 26, 2008)

oreo said:


> I am listening to some talking heads, govenor of Miss.--who has watched hundreds of debates over the years.
> 
> He states he's never seen a knockout in a debate.  This is the first time we have witnessed a total knockout.
> 
> ...





now that sounds like what I saw.


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## elvis (Sep 26, 2008)

oreo said:


> I am listening to some talking heads, govenor of Miss.--who has watched hundreds of debates over the years.
> 
> He states he's never seen a knockout in a debate.  This is the first time we have witnessed a total knockout.
> 
> ...



That's how I saw it.  From what I hear, it's not how the country saw it.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Sep 26, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no, be honest
> Ron Paul won in your eyes



Nope, Bob Barr.


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## jschuck12001 (Sep 26, 2008)

I just watched a nice size group of independents from Nevada on the Republican news network(Fox) and the majority thought Obama won.  Greta didnt know what to say.


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## random3434 (Sep 26, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> I just watched a nice size group of independents from Nevada on the Republican news network(Fox) and the majority thought Obama won.  Greta didnt know what to say.




That's some funny stuff right there!  

Fox  News must have died!


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## Silence (Sep 26, 2008)

It's funny to see the Cons trying to spin this as some big win for McCain.

McCain should have handed Obama his ass on a platter, the fact that even insider Republicans are seeing this as an Obama win isn't a good sign for McCain AT ALL!  

McCain with his endless smirking and refusal to address Obama directly, as the moderator requested and encouraged, IMO, shows how stubborn McCain is.  That's NOT a quality we need in our next President.

I'll say this...Obama certainly didn't umm and uh his answers tonight.. he was clear and concise and thoughtful.  

All McCain kept saying was Obama doesn't understand...but what it looked like to me was that McCain doesn't understand that the world doesn't want us displaying naked aggression from the white house anymore... McCain showed his true colors tonight.  He's disrespectful, dismissive and ill-prepared to speak even on a topic that he should excel at.  

Obama wasn't expected to win this debate... the fact that it's even up for debate means that Obama won in the one way that counts... He held his own and if the polls are accurate that he's polling better with independents that's excellent news for the Democrats that's for sure... McCain NEEDS those voters to win in November and he's been steadily losing them since 9/15/08 when he uttered the words "the fundamentals of the economy are strong"  

and can I just say that I LOL'd at McCain saying Obama was being irresponsible for publically saying he'd strike pakastan if necessary and then Obama calling him out on saying he'd exterminate North Korea and then singing songs about bombing Iran... McCain...that's your ass... it just got handed to you dude...


----------



## Missourian (Sep 26, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> I just watched a nice size group of independents from Nevada on the Republican news network(Fox) and the majority thought Obama won.  Greta didnt know what to say.




I imagine they are in the minority.


----------



## random3434 (Sep 26, 2008)

You make some good points Silence.

The people who were voting for McCain or Obama aren't going to change their minds after any debates, so really these are for the undecided voters. 

Just look at the opinions of the dems/rep. on here, nothing has changed.

I love the fact that the undecided/independent voters are leaning toward Obama after tonight. 

That's a huge win I'd say!


----------



## random3434 (Sep 26, 2008)

Missourian said:


> I imagine they are in the minority.



What, people who watch Fox news?


----------



## jschuck12001 (Sep 26, 2008)

Missourian said:


> I imagine they are in the minority.



I can only go off what I see. People on the boards including myself dont like poll data so much so I thought some real people will give us some idea.  There was also a landslide victory on MSNBC by a mix of Rep, Dem, IND voters but I didnt want to bring that up because MSNBC is the Dem network and I knew nobody would give it any attention.


----------



## random3434 (Sep 26, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> I can only go off what I see. People on the boards including myself dont like poll data so much so I thought some real people will give us some idea.  There was also a landslide victory on MSNBC by a mix of Rep, Dem, IND voters but I didnt want to bring that up because MSNBC is the Dem network and I knew nobody would give it any attention.



Who won the presidential debate?   * 329475 responses * MSNBC*

 John McCain
35%  

 Barack Obama
51%  

 Tie
6.3%


----------



## jschuck12001 (Sep 26, 2008)

Missourian said:


> I imagine they are in the minority.



What I can tell you is that Clark county in Nevada is one of the worst areas in the nation for foreclosures  and the people there are hurting badly so opposition by the Republicans to buck the bailout bill could swing their vote.


----------



## Silence (Sep 26, 2008)

I have so much respect for the fact that Obama is able to give credit were credit is due...even to an opponent that he disagrees with... that shows a leader who is willing to work across party lines... 

How are people supposed to believe that McCain can work with Democrats if he can't even acknowledge that Obama has some valid points?

and sorry, didn't McCain at one point say that he'd want Obama in his cabinet?  hmmmm that's interesting... so he'd put someone in his cabinet that he thinks is a total idiot?  good plan Johnnie...


----------



## Missourian (Sep 27, 2008)

> The two men were pointed but polite, although at least once McCain sought to depict his rival as naive on foreign policy. That was in response to Obama's statement that it might become necessary to send U.S. troops across the Pakistani border to pursue terrorists.
> 
> "You don't say that out loud," retorted McCain. "If you have to do things, you do things."
> 
> ...



Link


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 27, 2008)

Missourian said:


> Link


i still think it was so close i'd call it a tie, because McCain didnt pound a single nail in the coffin for Obama
but that one was a tipping point where if i HAD to pick who came out on top, it would be McCain
Obama looked agitated almost from the begining


----------



## glockmail (Sep 27, 2008)

Silence said:


> ....
> .... didn't McCain at one point say that he'd want Obama in his cabinet?  hmmmm that's interesting... so he'd put someone in his cabinet that he thinks is a total idiot?  good plan Johnnie...


 He meant laundry cabinet.


----------



## oreo (Sep 27, 2008)

*932 MILLION dollars*-close to 1 BILLION dollars-Obama has asked for in ear marks during the last 3 years.

McCain has _never asked for money _ for his home state of Arizona & he has been in the senate for decades.

_How does Obama give a tax break to 95% of the public, when only 60% actually pays federal income tax?_


----------



## Foxfyre (Sep 27, 2008)

I was listening to Krauthammer earlier saying that if it was a tie, Obama wins given the current economic crisis.  (The media is being successful convincing the public that it is the Republicans who are responsible for that.)

The AOL straw poll at this hour (a little after 11 pm MDT) though was interesting with something over 100,000 chiming in.  Who won the debate?  Obama by a narrow margin.  Who was the most presidential?  Obama by a narrow margin.  Who will better handle the economy?  McCain by a somewhat larger margin.  Who will better handle Iraq?  McCain by a fairly large margin.

So I don't know WHO won by the numbers.  It was a boring debate but I did think McCain had the more definite and convincing answers.


----------



## Chris (Sep 27, 2008)

oreo said:


> *932 MILLION dollars*-close to 1 BILLION dollars-Obama has asked for in ear marks during the last 3 years.
> 
> McCain has _never asked for money _ for his home state of Arizona & he has been in the senate for decades.
> 
> _How does Obama give a tax break to 95% of the public, when only 60% actually pays federal income tax?_



No, McCain asked for $700 BILLION DOLLARS FOR IRAQ. And he wants us to stay there indefinitely and continue to spend $120 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. The man is an idiot.


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 27, 2008)

Foxfyre said:


> I was listening to Krauthammer earlier saying that if it was a tie, Obama wins given the current economic crisis.  (The media is being successful convincing the public that it is the Republicans who are responsible for that.)
> 
> The AOL straw poll at this hour (a little after 11 pm MDT) though was interesting with something over 100,000 chiming in.  Who won the debate?  Obama by a narrow margin.  Who was the most presidential?  Obama by a narrow margin.  Who will better handle the economy?  McCain by a somewhat larger margin.  Who will better handle Iraq?  McCain by a fairly large margin.
> 
> So I don't know WHO won by the numbers.  It was a boring debate but I did think McCain had the more definite and convincing answers.


but the truth is getting out

[youtube]H5tZc8oH--o[/youtube]

thanks to AlGore inventing the internet


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 27, 2008)

Chris said:


> No, McCain asked for $700 BILLION DOLLARS FOR IRAQ. And he wants us to stay there indefinitely and continue to spend $120 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. The man is an idiot.


no, you are an idiot for parroting those words that have been shown by everyone to be taken out of context


----------



## Ninja (Sep 27, 2008)

I LMAO'd at Frank Luntz Las Vegas focus group.

"McCain mumbled and stuttered" 

Why the fuck do they find these dumbshits (they were Las Vegas vacation-goers).

I'll bet there were a couple members of the USMB Leftist Regiment. 

::;

Anyway, had dinner and re-watched the debate. McCain actually did a bit better than I remember. And just when Luntz' focus group had me down, I saw a bunch of other ones on other stations consisting of people who WERE undecided and had McCain winning. P.S. These ones were from FLA and PA  Was worried the media might successfully spin it for Obama, now it looks like McCain may actually come out the victor. I also read a few editorials declaring McCain the victor and watched this ad:

[youtube]Ec3aC8ZJZTc[/youtube]


----------



## Mauser (Sep 27, 2008)

I'd like to be able to say McCain won, but I thought it was a tie.


----------



## Jon (Sep 27, 2008)

The general consensus is that it was McCain's night, but not that it was a knockout. I think both did well, but neither dazzled me. I voted for a tie.


----------



## Ravi (Sep 27, 2008)

It was boring, I actually fell asleep.

They both seemed nervous, which I guess is normal for their first debate, though I would have thought with all of McCain's "experience" talking in front of national audiences he would have been more up for it.

McCain came off as a know-it-all unwilling to actually make a coherent statement and Obama looked pained at McCain's dithering answers.


----------



## Ninja (Sep 27, 2008)

Obama looked like he was trying to contain a giant fart.


----------



## newpolitics (Sep 27, 2008)

I think it was a Tie, in actuality, but that kind of makes it a victory for Obama, because it was McCain's strong suit to be discussing foregin policy, not to mention, Obama maintained a more presidential posture, while McCain gave into his feelings, showing a poor temperament.  Yes, Obama seemed agitated, and perhaps that  is something he needs to work on, but just because McCain got under his skin, doesn't mean that he won, or more importantly, would be a better a President.  Also, given McCain's polling before the debate, he really needed to hit this one out of the park, and he didn't.

I mean, Obama had to deal with an opponent who showed no signs of respect, and seemed only wanted to hurt him, personally.  McCain made it personal.


----------



## Jon (Sep 27, 2008)

Ninja said:


> Obama looked like he was trying to contain a giant fart.



He always looks that way.


----------



## newpolitics (Sep 27, 2008)

DavidS said:


> If he can't look his presidential opponent in the eyes, how is he supposed to negotiate nuclear arms deals with Russia or find ways to eliminate terrorism by working with Pakistan?




Exactly.  That is the pertinent information here.


----------



## Ravi (Sep 27, 2008)

newpolitics said:


> I think it was a Tie, in actuality, but that kind of makes it a victory for Obama, because it was McCain's strong suit to be discussing foregin policy, not to mention, Obama maintained a more presidential posture, while McCain gave into his feelings, showing a poor temperament.  Yes, Obama seemed agitated, and perhaps that  is something he needs to work on, but just because McCain got under his skin, doesn't mean that he won, or more importantly, would be a better a President.  Also, given McCain's polling before the debate, he really needed to hit this one out of the park, and he didn't.
> 
> I mean, Obama had to deal with an opponent who showed no signs of respect, and seemed only wanted to hurt him, personally.  McCain made it personal.


Good points. This is the debate McCain was afraid to attend, remember. One has to wonder why, it seemed pretty soft-ball to me.


----------



## Jon (Sep 27, 2008)

Ravi said:


> This is the debate McCain was afraid to attend, remember.



No, I don't remember. Got proof?


----------



## plt42 (Sep 27, 2008)

It seemed to me that McCain's forte is war and winning, war and winning... .  There appeared to be no concern about world opinion of the US, which I consider to be important as no one wants to align with a bully.  I think Obama showed great restraint as McCain spun his web of deliberate misinterpretation.  Obama's panoramic view of the Middle East far outshined McCain's narrow scope.  Negotiation doesn't seem to exist in McCain's vocabulary.  I give the debate edge to Obama.  JMHO


----------



## Otter_Creek (Sep 27, 2008)

I pick McCain, and yes, I'm partial.

I do believe Obama is a likable fellow, but when it comes to running a country he's inexperienced and has not really even done much as a senator yet. He's just to young, ideals are fine and good, but this is a dangerous world we live in whether people want to believe it or not.
McCain is the best of the two evils ... once again, and his experience is what we need in the White House.
It was refreshing to see such a civil debate.
Maybe I'll vote for Obama in 16 years after McCain and Palin have done both their terms as President.


----------



## newpolitics (Sep 27, 2008)

plt42 said:


> I think Obama showed great restraint as McCain spun his web of deliberate misinterpretation.



I really, really, really... agree, and wholeheartedly


----------



## newpolitics (Sep 27, 2008)

Otter_Creek said:


> Maybe I'll vote for Obama in 16 years after McCain and Palin have done both their terms as President.



Ughh... I think I'm going to be sick


----------



## jillian (Sep 27, 2008)

newpolitics said:


> Ughh... I think I'm going to be sick



Don't worry, I expect if Sarah Palin ever gets near the white house, it will be a moot point.


----------



## glockmail (Sep 27, 2008)

jillian said:


> Don't worry, I expect if Sarah Palin ever gets near the white house, it will be a moot point.


 She's smarter than you. Probably a lot better looking too.


----------



## Otter_Creek (Sep 27, 2008)

newpolitics said:


> Ughh... I think I'm going to be sick



LOL! That's okay, I know it hurts, but it's important to put adults in the White House. At this time anyway.


----------



## Ravi (Sep 27, 2008)

jsanders said:


> No, I don't remember. Got proof?


Yes. He tried to get out of it and then when he finally psyched himself up to attend, he couldn't bring himself to address Obama directly. He couldn't even look at him. Classic fear.


----------



## WillowTree (Sep 27, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Yes. He tried to get out of it and then when he finally psyched himself up to attend, he couldn't bring himself to address Obama directly. He couldn't even look at him. Classic fear.











moving the goalposts, moving the goalposts, moving the goalposts, moving the goalposts


----------



## Care4all (Sep 27, 2008)

NObama said:


> I gotta give it to McCain.



i just couldn't watch it live....couldn't stomach it....

watched the 24/7's afterwards, then finally caught a good deal of it on replay...., wish i hadn't....  i hate the divisive stuff....


----------



## Paulie (Sep 27, 2008)

I switched back and forth between the Phillies game and CNN, because CNN had the focus group graph at the bottom.  I noticed the indies and even the republicans weren't showing much enthusiasm when McCain spoke.  

In fact, I saw indies line moving DOWN more than up with McCain.


----------



## random3434 (Sep 27, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I switched back and forth between the Phillies game and CNN, because CNN had the focus group graph at the bottom.  I noticed the indies and even the republicans weren't showing much enthusiasm when McCain spoke.
> 
> In fact, I saw indies line moving DOWN more than up with McCain.



Interesting. I just watched NBC, and they didn't have all that. 

Wonder why the republicans weren't showing much enthusiasm while McCain spoke?


----------



## Jennifer.Bush (Sep 27, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> McCain won. ticked Obama off and you could tell it.


...................


obama had good points, but mccain was better


----------



## Missourian (Sep 27, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I switched back and forth between the Phillies game and CNN, because CNN had the focus group graph at the bottom.  I noticed the indies and even the republicans weren't showing much enthusiasm when McCain spoke.
> 
> In fact, I saw indies line moving DOWN more than up with McCain.




That is why I don't like the graph.  It's like the network saying "Ok, here is what you should think".  Plus, I don't know anything about those people.  At least with our unscientific poll, we somewhat know the lay of the land.


In this poll from 2 days ago, USMB is split right down the middle, just like the rest of the country.


----------



## NOBama (Sep 27, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> At least I know where the dems stand on what they want, I didnt hear any clear explanation of what the Republicans want.



What issue(s), did Obama give you a clear explanation of and what issue(s) were you expecting McCain to clarify?

Personally, I was disappointed because I didnt hear much new information offered up by either of these buffoons.

As far as knowing where the Dems stand on what they want, nothings changed in my mind. Does anybody really believe that Obama can or will change the spots of the Tax and Spend Democratic Party? I think not, but if he wins, Id support him for trying.


----------



## Epsilon Delta (Sep 27, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I switched back and forth between the Phillies game and CNN, because CNN had the focus group graph at the bottom.  I noticed the indies and even the republicans weren't showing much enthusiasm when McCain spoke.
> 
> In fact, I saw indies line moving DOWN more than up with McCain.



I noticed this too and it was really striking. It was a serious drop on the little line every time Obama finished and McCain started. In fact, I was pretty sure that the next day most would be touting an Obama victory, but I guess I was wrong. I pretty much thought he canned McCain on almost every question, even if I completely disagreed with some of the garbage he was talking about.


----------



## Paulie (Sep 27, 2008)

Epsilon Delta said:


> I noticed this too and it was really striking. It was a serious drop on the little line every time Obama finished and McCain started. In fact, I was pretty sure that the next day most would be touting an Obama victory, but I guess I was wrong. I pretty much thought he canned McCain on almost every question, even if I completely disagreed with some of the garbage he was talking about.



This is a crazy election.  I agree with McCain on most of his issues besides his foreign policy, but I can't stand the guy.  I don't trust him.  I think he's lying, and it's really irritating when he has that little grin on his face like a 10 year old when someone else is speaking.  He does it all the time.  It's a real turn off, if you ask me.

I don't want just about ANY of Obama's domestic policies, but I'll admit that it wouldn't bother me that much if he won.  I will NEVER vote for McCain.  EVER.  I'm writing in Ron Paul, that was probably always going to be my move, but if Obama wins I'm not going to lose sleep over it.  I can't stand Palin either.  She's too religious for me.  Saying anything is "god's will" is automatically going to lose my vote, ESPECIALLY saying it in regards to a war.

I'll take 4 years of liberalism if it means the Republican Party gets their act together and figures out how to put a REAL conservative on a ticket.  They DESERVE it.  It's not like it's been very conservative with Bush anyway.


----------



## Caligirl (Sep 27, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I'll take 4 years of liberalism if it means the Republican Party gets their act together and figures out how to put a REAL conservative on a ticket.  They DESERVE it.  It's not like it's been very conservative with Bush anyway.




I agree - I have figured out (duh) that power draws corrupt politicians and so all sorts of crap got into the republican party in the last fifteen years. Now that Dems are moving ahead crap will be attracted to that party.  Finally "get" the whole pendulum thing. The dems will go down hard in a few years, but they deserve a shot since the repubs blew it.


----------



## Paulie (Sep 27, 2008)

I didn't answer the original question either.  I think Obama won this debate.  

Granted, I didn't watch much of it, but I saw the meat and potatoes.  McCain says the same tired crap every single time he speaks.  His monotonous tone, his lack of enthusiasm, and his general boringness kills it for me.  I'm tired of hearing about his veto pen that he knows damn well he'll never have the balls to use.  I'm tired of hearing about his "reform" when it's well known he's got lobbyists lined up on his dick.  I'm tired of hearing about how he'll cut wasteful spending, when we all know he won't be vetoing MOST of the bills he says he will, because there needs to be earmark reform FIRST, and no one in congress is going to do it.  He's talking out his ass.

I'm sure Obama is talking out his ass as well, but I'm not on his side of the aisle anyway.  I'm holding my own side to account here, and we picked a HORRIBLE candidate to sit in the Oval Office.


----------



## slackjawed (Sep 27, 2008)

I think the American people actually won the debate, here is why;
Each candidate was very effective at presenting his views on the issues that were presented. Each candidate has views and philosophies that are fundamentally different. The fact is that these differences were very well presented. That is the intended purpose of the debates, to present the positions of the candidates. The purpose is not to "win" the debate. The purpose is supposed to be to present the candidates views on the issues. In this regard, I think the debate was a good one. The proof of that is that the people who had already made up their minds are claiming victory for their candidate of choice. I take this to mean that both men were effective at presenting their position, and that the people that had already made up their minds both recognize that and do not understand how anyone could agree with the other candidate's views.
I beleive this is a clear demonstration of how divided this country has become.
No matter who you support, the fact is that both men presented their views in a clear and polite manner. IMHO both men are to be commended on their knowledge and statesmanship. Both men demonstrated they are qualified for the job. The debate was a success in demonstrating a clear difference of political philosophy between the two.
We the people actually won the debate because, unlike past debates, the difference between the two becomes more pronounced. It is hard to believe, but we actually won something- how about that for change.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Sep 27, 2008)

slackjawed said:


> I think the American people actually won the debate, here is why;
> Each candidate was very effective at presenting his views on the issues that were presented. Each candidate has views and philosophies that are fundamentally different. The fact is that these differences were very well presented. That is the intended purpose of the debates, to present the positions of the candidates. The purpose is not to "win" the debate. The purpose is supposed to be to present the candidates views on the issues. In this regard, I think the debate was a good one. The proof of that is that the people who had already made up their minds are claiming victory for their candidate of choice. I take this to mean that both men were effective at presenting their position, and that the people that had already made up their minds both recognize that and do not understand how anyone could agree with the other candidate's views.
> I beleive this is a clear demonstration of how divided this country has become.
> No matter who you support, the fact is that both men presented their views in a clear and polite manner. IMHO both men are to be commended on their knowledge and statesmanship. Both men demonstrated they are qualified for the job. The debate was a success in demonstrating a clear difference of political philosophy between the two.
> We the people actually won the debate because, unlike past debates, the difference between the two becomes more pronounced. It is hard to believe, but we actually won something- how about that for change.



Well _that's_ a pretty reasonable god damned attitude!  Where the hell did _you_ come from?!?



-Joe


----------



## Otter_Creek (Sep 27, 2008)

slackjawed said:


> I think the American people actually won the debate, here is why;
> Each candidate was very effective at presenting his views on the issues that were presented. Each candidate has views and philosophies that are fundamentally different. The fact is that these differences were very well presented. That is the intended purpose of the debates, to present the positions of the candidates. The purpose is not to "win" the debate. The purpose is supposed to be to present the candidates views on the issues. In this regard, I think the debate was a good one. The proof of that is that the people who had already made up their minds are claiming victory for their candidate of choice. I take this to mean that both men were effective at presenting their position, and that the people that had already made up their minds both recognize that and do not understand how anyone could agree with the other candidate's views.
> I beleive this is a clear demonstration of how divided this country has become.
> No matter who you support, the fact is that both men presented their views in a clear and polite manner. IMHO both men are to be commended on their knowledge and statesmanship. Both men demonstrated they are qualified for the job. The debate was a success in demonstrating a clear difference of political philosophy between the two.
> We the people actually won the debate because, unlike past debates, the difference between the two becomes more pronounced. It is hard to believe, but we actually won something- how about that for change.



That's a great post  Especially for your first one.


----------



## slackjawed (Sep 27, 2008)

I live in Arizona and celebrate the fact that we live in a country where we are actually encouraged to disagree.


----------



## Otter_Creek (Sep 27, 2008)

slackjawed said:


> I live in Arizona and celebrate the fact that we live in a country where we are actually encouraged to disagree.



I don't agree with that...


----------



## Shadow (Sep 27, 2008)

CA95380 said:


> Never looked at him once!  Like he was afraid he would forget his script ... or lines.  /shrug




You mean the way Oblabla couldn't remember John McCain's name and kept calling him "Tom" and "Jim"  as he sweated up a storm and nearly locked his eyes up in side his head LOL.

BTW what does "Kilt" mean in Obama's universe. As in " They are "Kilt".


----------



## Article 15 (Sep 27, 2008)

I'd call it a tie.


----------



## Otter_Creek (Sep 27, 2008)

Shadow said:


> BTW what does "Kilt" mean in Obama's universe. As in " They are "Kilt".



I'd guess something like..." I'd have chose Paul Wellstone as a running mate but he got hisself _Kilt._

Maybe?


----------



## Missourian (Sep 27, 2008)

Shadow said:


> You mean the way Oblabla couldn't remember John McCain's name and kept calling him "Tom" and "Jim"  as he sweated up a storm and nearly locked his eyes up in side his head LOL.




I was like, who the heck is Tom?


----------



## Ninja (Sep 27, 2008)

SpewsWeak admits McCain won:

Stumper : McCain Won. But Will It Matter?

Ouch.

Though their premise is correct, the debates aren't usually a game-changer.


----------



## Stoner (Sep 27, 2008)

This was a big win for McCain.  Hussein Obama really hurt himself by looking so inexperienced.  He's behind the eight-ball now and will be even further behind after Biden follows in Comrade's footsteps.


----------



## Missourian (Sep 27, 2008)

Ninja said:


> SpewsWeak admits McCain won:
> 
> Stumper : McCain Won. But Will It Matter?
> 
> ...




Thanks for the link.


I think this paragragh sums it up pretty well:




*"Tonight, John McCain was the more effective combatant.

There are two reasons why. The first is that he constantly--obsessively, really--spiked his responses with small but pointed jabs at Obama that unfailingly related to subjects he (McCain) wanted to talk about, whatever the original topic of discussion. This tactic had a dual effect. First, Obama couldn't help but take the bait; he must've said "that's not true," "let me correct the record" or "I just have to respond" a dozen times over the course of the evening. Second, Obama's defensiveness immediately shifted the conversation to McCain's home turf--where it remained, often for minutes at a time."*


----------



## Silence (Sep 27, 2008)

Let's be honest here... if 24 think Obama won and 11 think that it was a tie that's basically like saying Obama won considering that McCain should've won handily on this topic.  

That's what every major pundit is saying today... if it's a virtual tie then the win goes to Obama.  

Obama had to show up, look Presidential, show that he knew what he was talking about (or at least appear to know) and not make any major mistakes.  He also needed to tie McCain to Bush, which he did successfully by reminding everyone that McCain voted in favor of Bush's budgets and with Bush's failed policies 90% of the time.


----------



## Ravi (Sep 27, 2008)

Silence said:


> Let's be honest here... if 24 think Obama won and 11 think that it was a tie that's basically like saying Obama won considering that McCain should've won handily on this topic.
> 
> That's what every major pundit is saying today... if it's a virtual tie then the win goes to Obama.
> 
> Obama had to show up, look Presidential, show that he knew what he was talking about (or at least appear to know) and not make any major mistakes.  He also needed to tie McCain to Bush, which he did successfully by reminding everyone that McCain voted in favor of Bush's budgets and with Bush's failed policies 90% of the time.


Yep. What are the next two debates about? One is about the economy, IIRC. This was supposed to be Johnnyboys one easy shot.


----------



## DiveCon (Sep 27, 2008)

Silence said:


> Let's be honest here... if 24 think Obama won and 11 think that it was a tie that's basically like saying Obama won considering that McCain should've won handily on this topic.
> 
> That's what every major pundit is saying today... if it's a virtual tie then the win goes to Obama.
> 
> Obama had to show up, look Presidential, show that he knew what he was talking about (or at least appear to know) and not make any major mistakes.  He also needed to tie McCain to Bush, which he did successfully by reminding everyone that McCain voted in favor of Bush's budgets and with Bush's failed policies 90% of the time.


you cant add those that said it was a tie to obama without giving them also to McCain
:doh:


----------



## IndieVisible (Sep 27, 2008)

I think it was pretty much a tie. Neither had any knock out punches. I watched the first 2/3 of the debate on TV and concluded a tie. HOWEVER listening to the last 30 minutes in the car on the radio McCain sounded more Presidential and better. Obama sounded like a kid getting defensive and frustrated.

Both candidates did well but not as well as they could have. Obama's problem is he has trouble "closing the deal", McCain's problem is he says the right stuff it just lacks excitement.

Still I think McCain will see a "slight" boost in the polls making the race even closer. I still support McCain.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 27, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no, you are an idiot for parroting those words that have been shown by everyone to be taken out of context




He can't help himself,that is his job and he is a good parrot....if nothing else.


----------



## MichaelCollins (Sep 27, 2008)

I was totally shocked at how deeply inarticulate both men were.

I always thought that Obama was brighter than that...perhaps he was a little nervous.  As for McCain ..he has all the presence of a tired tortoise...so not presidential....and that squeaky little voice!

I think that it is a sad reflection on US Politics..if this is all that you can offer...one elderly midget who simply regurgitates what he has been told to say from previous scripts..and changes all questions into military answers...

and a surprisingly inarticulate Obama...who had all the ammunition to go for McCain but didnt use it..or was too scared to use it?

McCain was there for the taking... an extremely weak little opponent...but Obama failed to destroy him...as any reasonably intelligent person would have been able to do.

Poor Poor showing from both...

obvioulsy Obama won the debate...but that is hardly an achievement and against a senile, educationally very limited midget.


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## Shadow (Sep 27, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Yep. What are the next two debates about? One is about the economy, IIRC. This was supposed to be Johnnyboys one easy shot.



What would be Obama's one easy shot..since he is a expert on nothing?


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## glockmail (Sep 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> I'd call it a tie.


 Even you admit Obama lost.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 29, 2008)

I believe McCain eeked out one... He started to shaky, but he dominated on actual points.

Obama may have "held his own" but it was with jabs and not any truthful or real substance. Obama did better than I expected because of his poise... but in actuality did nothing to impress


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## busara (Sep 29, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> I believe McCain eeked out one... He started to shaky, but he dominated on actual points.
> 
> Obama may have "held his own" but it was with jabs and not any truthful or real substance. Obama did better than I expected because of his poise... but in actuality did nothing to impress



no truth? both candidates lied several times about the other's policies. and both screwed up on the georgia situation. it was a very painful debate to watch. 

i would say mccain "won" in that he made obama seem inexperienced with his constant "you dont understand" line. at least for people who are easily manipulated by what they hear


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## Silence (Sep 29, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> you cant add those that said it was a tie to obama without giving them also to McCain
> :doh:



I can when Obama should've been blown out of the water by McCain so the fact that people actually think it was a tie is a benefit to Obama not McCain.  Obama is the inexperienced newcomer.  McCain the veteran politican with experience on his side.... if they tied that means that either Obama rose to McCain's level of expertise or McCain sank to the level of Obama's inexperience...which would you prefer?


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## sealybobo (Sep 29, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> I believe McCain eeked out one... He started to shaky, but he dominated on actual points.
> 
> Obama may have "held his own" but it was with jabs and not any truthful or real substance. Obama did better than I expected because of his poise... but in actuality did nothing to impress



What the fuck are you talking about?  Obama was right on the money.  Here is an example:

1. After the bad guys are gone, Iraqi's will greet us as liberators
2. There won't be sectarian violence
3. It will be easy
4. The war will pay for itself
5. We will find WMD's.

McCain was wrong all 5 times.

I can't wait for the debate on the economy, because then Obama can bring up the fact that just a week ago McCain said our economy was strong. And today he still calls for less regulations and more tax breaks to the rich. 

You are a buffoon.


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## Shogun (Sep 29, 2008)

a NEEWSWEEK BLOG?



good source!!

Oh NOeZ!  GOP shills insist Mccain won!    Gosh, didn't see THAT coming a mile away like a retarded jolly green giant.

You people crack me up.


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## DiamondDave (Sep 29, 2008)

Agreed sho... people who use blogs as 'proof' are laughable...


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## glockmail (Sep 29, 2008)

Shogun said:


> a NEEWSWEEK BLOG?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not all blogs are equal. 



> Andrew Romano was named Associate Editor and Political Blogger in December 2007. He travels with the 2008 presidential candidates covering the daily roadshow for his blog, Stumper, and reports on politics for the National Affairs section of the magazine.
> 
> Prior to his current assignment, Romano was a junior reporter in Newsweek's New York headquarters contributing to the magazine's National Affairs coverage. Since April 2006, he has profiled Al Franken, interviewed Paul McCartney, reported on the Howard Dean alums in charge of John Edwards' and Barack Obama's Internet campaigns, revealed how MySpace and police officers are working together to solve crimes, pieced together the story of a cannibalistic New Orleans murder-suicide, discovered the U.S. military recruiting at paintball events and memorialized the Virginia Tech victims.
> 
> ...


Andrew Romano | Newsweek.com


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