# Who got the 2 billion that JP Morgan lost?



## uscitizen

It had to go somewhere....


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## zonly1

being knaive is no excuse


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## waltky

Congress `bout to crawl up dey's butt with a microscope...

*JPMorgan Trading Losses Prompts New Probe, Concerns About Wall Street*
_May 16, 2012 - JPMorgan is facing increasing pressure to explain recent losses.  Last week, the world's largest bank disclosed a loss of at least $2 billion from trades that were supposed to protect the firm from risk.  Now the FBI is looking into whether any laws were broken, and shareholders are looking for assurances that it won't happen again._


> Just days after JPMorgan Chase reported the loss, Jamie Dimon, the bank's embattled CEO, apologized to shareholders. "This should have never happened.  I can't justify it.  Unfortunately, these mistakes were-self inflicted," Dimon said.  Tuesday, the FBI said it was launching a probe. And, on Wednesday, lawmakers held a hearing to determine if new regulations are needed.  New laws that go into effect in July would limit some banks from making proprietary bets with publicly-insured money.  Financial strategist Peter Cardillo blames the new regulations on Wall Street's appetite for high-risk gambles. "There's no question, derivatives have turned Wall Street into a casino. There's no question about that," Cardillo said.
> 
> Although Cardillo has concerns about a rush to over-regulate, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner says the JPMorgan fiasco makes a powerful case for stronger financial oversight.  "The test of reform is not whether you can prevent banks from making mistakes, errors of judgement  Risk management, that's going to happen.  That's inevitable.  The test of reform should be do those mistakes put at risk the broader economy, the financial system or the taxpayer?," Geithner said.  Ironically, JPMorgan's Dimon has been among the harshest critics of Wall Street reform.  But shareholder Peter Skillern wonders who's watching their CEO -- who also happens to be the company's chairman.  "So who oversees that unit?  Jamie.  Who oversees Jamie?  Jamie. That's the problem.  He's his own boss," Skillern said.
> 
> Despite their concerns, shareholders demonstrated support for their chairman -- voting against a proposal to split his position into two separate jobs.  Outside, protesters threw eggs at a picture of Dimon and expressed a litany of complaints against what they call the "fat cats" of Wall Street.  "The big banks need to be broken up, as well as reducing principal for homeowners that are underwater with their mortgages and clearly for them to stay out of, keep their money out of politics, which is really destroying our democracy right now," one protester said.  JPMorgan's trading blunder has already prompted several resignations.  Analysts say more employees are likely to lose their jobs.
> 
> Source


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## maxroe

I'm pretty sure we didn't get any of anything anybody lost. :T


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## whitehall

Good question. We will get to it as soon as we find out what M.F. Global CEO and former democrat governor of N.J. Jon Corzine did with 1.2 Billion dollars.


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## Jroc

This was great I must say


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3gGCrjVdwA]Mitt Romney Solyndra Fremont California (May 31, 2012) - YouTube[/ame]


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## whitehall

Hooah for Mitt. Put the pressure on.


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## JimBowie1958

Bet the Sock Monster got it....


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## percysunshine

uscitizen said:


> It had to go somewhere....



The other side of the trade. 

It is an interesting topic. Some group like Chase, or Barclays loses a couple billion dollars, but the money did not evaporate, it just changed hands. Someone is always on the other side of the trade, or there would never be a trade in the first place.


All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands. People who bought a house in California for $50,000,  and then sold it 7 years later for $500,000 were the other hands.


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## uscitizen

Actually a lot of "money" never does exist.


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## ABikerSailor

uscitizen said:


> Actually a lot of "money" never does exist.



True, most of the "money" traded on Wall St. is actually imaginary numbers that only exist as computer readouts and phosphor dots.


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## percysunshine

Money is a convenient medium for the exchange of goods and services. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## ABikerSailor

percysunshine said:


> Money is a convenient medium for the exchange of goods and services. Nothing more, nothing less.



Yeah..............but now that medium is all computer programs and readouts.  Have you ever had a whole paycheck in cash in your hand on payday?  

I did, for about the first year I was in the Navy, but then it went to Direct Deposit System.

From then on?  I have to trust that the money is real on the computer, otherwise I can't get it.


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## JimBowie1958

percysunshine said:


> Money is a convenient medium for the exchange of goods and services. Nothing more, nothing less.



No, gotta disagree.

It is also the scoring mechanism for those involved in the ultimate ego war; whose got more dollars.


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## Flopper

waltky said:


> Congress `bout to crawl up dey's butt with a microscope...
> 
> *JPMorgan Trading Losses Prompts New Probe, Concerns About Wall Street*
> _May 16, 2012 - JPMorgan is facing increasing pressure to explain recent losses.  Last week, the world's largest bank disclosed a loss of at least $2 billion from trades that were supposed to protect the firm from risk.  Now the FBI is looking into whether any laws were broken, and shareholders are looking for assurances that it won't happen again._
> 
> 
> 
> Just days after JPMorgan Chase reported the loss, Jamie Dimon, the bank's embattled CEO, apologized to shareholders. "This should have never happened.  I can't justify it.  Unfortunately, these mistakes were-self inflicted," Dimon said.  Tuesday, the FBI said it was launching a probe. And, on Wednesday, lawmakers held a hearing to determine if new regulations are needed.  New laws that go into effect in July would limit some banks from making proprietary bets with publicly-insured money.  Financial strategist Peter Cardillo blames the new regulations on Wall Street's appetite for high-risk gambles. "There's no question, derivatives have turned Wall Street into a casino. There's no question about that," Cardillo said.
> 
> Although Cardillo has concerns about a rush to over-regulate, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner says the JPMorgan fiasco makes a powerful case for stronger financial oversight.  "The test of reform is not whether you can prevent banks from making mistakes, errors of judgement  Risk management, that's going to happen.  That's inevitable.  The test of reform should be do those mistakes put at risk the broader economy, the financial system or the taxpayer?," Geithner said.  Ironically, JPMorgan's Dimon has been among the harshest critics of Wall Street reform.  But shareholder Peter Skillern wonders who's watching their CEO -- who also happens to be the company's chairman.  "So who oversees that unit?  Jamie.  Who oversees Jamie?  Jamie. That's the problem.  He's his own boss," Skillern said.
> 
> Despite their concerns, shareholders demonstrated support for their chairman -- voting against a proposal to split his position into two separate jobs.  Outside, protesters threw eggs at a picture of Dimon and expressed a litany of complaints against what they call the "fat cats" of Wall Street.  "The big banks need to be broken up, as well as reducing principal for homeowners that are underwater with their mortgages and clearly for them to stay out of, keep their money out of politics, which is really destroying our democracy right now," one protester said.  JPMorgan's trading blunder has already prompted several resignations.  Analysts say more employees are likely to lose their jobs.
> 
> Source
Click to expand...

Chase has been leading the charge in trying to reduce risk for over 10 years and apparently not very successfully.  Of course, if they did what they should be doing, managing customer deposits and making loans instead speculating in currency and derivatives markets, there wouldn't be any need for the elaborate risk management.


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## Oddball

percysunshine said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> It had to go somewhere....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the trade.
> 
> It is an interesting topic. Some group like Chase, or Barclays loses a couple billion dollars, but the money did not evaporate, it just changed hands. Someone is always on the other side of the trade, or there would never be a trade in the first place.
> 
> 
> All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands. People who bought a house in California for $50,000,  and then sold it 7 years later for $500,000 were the other hands.
Click to expand...

Or vanished because of overvaluation by appraisers.


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## ABikerSailor

I'm still wondering why the Republicans were all but on their knees blowing Diamon when he's the one that did the fucked up thing in the first place?

Does he contribute THAT much money to their campaigns?


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## uscitizen

Yes he and his buddies do.

and then jobs after DC for them and their families.


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## zonly1

ABikerSailor said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually a lot of "money" never does exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, most of the "money" traded on Wall St. is actually imaginary numbers that only exist as computer readouts and phosphor dots.
Click to expand...


It must be trig identities on those HFT'ers.


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## zonly1

Flopper said:


> waltky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congress `bout to crawl up dey's butt with a microscope...
> 
> *JPMorgan Trading Losses Prompts New Probe, Concerns About Wall Street*
> _May 16, 2012 - JPMorgan is facing increasing pressure to explain recent losses.  Last week, the world's largest bank disclosed a loss of at least $2 billion from trades that were supposed to protect the firm from risk.  Now the FBI is looking into whether any laws were broken, and shareholders are looking for assurances that it won't happen again._
> 
> 
> 
> Just days after JPMorgan Chase reported the loss, Jamie Dimon, the bank's embattled CEO, apologized to shareholders. "This should have never happened.  I can't justify it.  Unfortunately, these mistakes were-self inflicted," Dimon said.  Tuesday, the FBI said it was launching a probe. And, on Wednesday, lawmakers held a hearing to determine if new regulations are needed.  New laws that go into effect in July would limit some banks from making proprietary bets with publicly-insured money.  Financial strategist Peter Cardillo blames the new regulations on Wall Street's appetite for high-risk gambles. "There's no question, derivatives have turned Wall Street into a casino. There's no question about that," Cardillo said.
> 
> Although Cardillo has concerns about a rush to over-regulate, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner says the JPMorgan fiasco makes a powerful case for stronger financial oversight.  "The test of reform is not whether you can prevent banks from making mistakes, errors of judgement  Risk management, that's going to happen.  That's inevitable.  The test of reform should be do those mistakes put at risk the broader economy, the financial system or the taxpayer?," Geithner said.  Ironically, JPMorgan's Dimon has been among the harshest critics of Wall Street reform.  But shareholder Peter Skillern wonders who's watching their CEO -- who also happens to be the company's chairman.  "So who oversees that unit?  Jamie.  Who oversees Jamie?  Jamie. That's the problem.  He's his own boss," Skillern said.
> 
> Despite their concerns, shareholders demonstrated support for their chairman -- voting against a proposal to split his position into two separate jobs.  Outside, protesters threw eggs at a picture of Dimon and expressed a litany of complaints against what they call the "fat cats" of Wall Street.  "The big banks need to be broken up, as well as reducing principal for homeowners that are underwater with their mortgages and clearly for them to stay out of, keep their money out of politics, which is really destroying our democracy right now," one protester said.  JPMorgan's trading blunder has already prompted several resignations.  Analysts say more employees are likely to lose their jobs.
> 
> Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chase has been leading the charge in trying to reduce risk for over 10 years and apparently not very successfully.  Of course, if they did what they should be doing, managing customer deposits and making loans instead speculating in currency and derivatives markets, there wouldn't be any need for the elaborate risk management.
Click to expand...


Can't keep a lid on it because they can't help but create a new speculation.  Kick the can.  YEEEHAW


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## Jroc

ABikerSailor said:


> I'm still wondering why the Republicans were all but on their knees blowing Diamon when he's the one that did the fucked up thing in the first place?
> 
> Does he contribute THAT much money to their campaigns?








> He was also one of President Barack Obama&#8217;s most prominent Wall Street friends, a rare high-profile Democrat in an industry dominated by low-tax, free-market Republicans. Dimon spent several years in Obama&#8217;s hometown of Chicago, where he ran Bank One after a nasty breakup with his one-time mentor. He got to know Rahm Emanuel. He hired Bill Daley as a top executive before Daley became Obama&#8217;s second chief of staff. He gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions to Democrats.
> 
> Obama returned all the love, at least at first. Dimon made at least 16 trips to the White House and met at least three times with Obama &#8212; a bond that allowed the president to appear business-friendly. The New York Times in 2009 called Dimon Obama&#8217;s &#8220;favorite banker.&#8221;




Read more: The Jamie Dimon - President Obama saga - POLITICO.com


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## percysunshine

Oddball said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> It had to go somewhere....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the trade.
> 
> It is an interesting topic. Some group like Chase, or Barclays loses a couple billion dollars, but the money did not evaporate, it just changed hands. Someone is always on the other side of the trade, or there would never be a trade in the first place.
> 
> 
> All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands. People who bought a house in California for $50,000,  and then sold it 7 years later for $500,000 were the other hands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or vanished because of overvaluation by appraisers.
Click to expand...


It didn't vanish. It just traded hands.

When people decide to use financial markets as a casino, and get burned, they have no further place to look other than a mirror.


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## signelect

Must not be a big deal down at the bank.  The CEO got the stockholders to approve his 23million dollars a year pay raise about a week later.  This is the same industry who said they had to pay the big bonuses to keep the good employees.  In the world where I live good employees don't get bonuses for losing over 2 billion.


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## Flopper

zonly1 said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waltky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congress `bout to crawl up dey's butt with a microscope...
> 
> *JPMorgan Trading Losses Prompts New Probe, Concerns About Wall Street*
> _May 16, 2012 - JPMorgan is facing increasing pressure to explain recent losses.  Last week, the world's largest bank disclosed a loss of at least $2 billion from trades that were supposed to protect the firm from risk.  Now the FBI is looking into whether any laws were broken, and shareholders are looking for assurances that it won't happen again._
> 
> 
> 
> Chase has been leading the charge in trying to reduce risk for over 10 years and apparently not very successfully.  Of course, if they did what they should be doing, managing customer deposits and making loans instead speculating in currency and derivatives markets, there wouldn't be any need for the elaborate risk management.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't keep a lid on it because they can't help but create a new speculation.  Kick the can.  YEEEHAW
Click to expand...

Here is a description of the trading that lost all the money.  "It&#8217;s incredibly complicated, but basically he was selling a form of insurance to other investors based on his belief that certain U.S. corporate bonds would be very secure. He sold so much of it that any blip in the market could have caused him enormous pain. The market blipped. JPMorgan suffered losses of at least $2 billion, and potentially much more." 

How the JPMorgan trade happened and what it means - The Washington Post

My neighbor who has an account at Chase asked the question, "What's my bank doing gambling on moves in interest rates, currencies, and commodities"?   The US Congress needs to answer that question.

Damin has admitted that JP Morgan Chase, the largest casino in world, didn't know how much risk they were taking.  That's pretty scary when you consider Chase holds over trillion dollars in deposits, 15% of the nation's GNP.


----------



## zonly1

percysunshine said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the trade.
> 
> It is an interesting topic. Some group like Chase, or Barclays loses a couple billion dollars, but the money did not evaporate, it just changed hands. Someone is always on the other side of the trade, or there would never be a trade in the first place.
> 
> 
> All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands. People who bought a house in California for $50,000,  and then sold it 7 years later for $500,000 were the other hands.
> 
> 
> 
> Or vanished because of overvaluation by appraisers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It didn't vanish. It just traded hands.
> 
> When people decide to use financial markets as a casino, and get burned, they have no further place to look other than a mirror.
Click to expand...


THat's dumbest thing I ve heard in some time.  You forget Glass steagal and the uptick rule, furthermore, High Frequency traders are 2% of the mkt while making 70+% vol sales.  The game is rigged with that high of control....todays financial markets that are the movers are involved with fabinucci curve trading principles puss others. Stock mkt puss for fears on the private investor and anticipate the guppies in the pond...like shooting fish in a barrel.


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## editec

> Dimon declined on the call to discuss the specific transactions or people involved. Synthetic credit products are *derivatives that generate gains and losses tied to credit performance without the owner buying or selling actual debt*. JPMorgan used the instruments to hedge exposure on loans and other credit risks to corporations, banks and sovereign governments. The losses emerged after the firm tried to reduce that position and unwind the portfolio, Dimon said.


 
Who won against JP Morgan?

Those players (unnamed because by law dereivatives are NOT regulated) who bet against JP Morgan's hedge positions.

Please note here that these BETS were NAKED derivatives.

That means that the BETS really don't serve anybody's interests but the winners of the  bet.  They certainly do NOTHING to advance our economy, generally. (especially since these BETS happened in LONDON_

These bets don't help build factories or home.  These are bets on whether other LOANS (loans made by people other than those involved in this NAKED DERIVATIVE *GAMBLE*) will get paid off.


Confused?

Yeah, that is the IDEA.


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## midcan5

ABikerSailor said:


> I'm still wondering why the Republicans were all but on their knees blowing Diamon when he's the one that did the fucked up thing in the first place?
> 
> Does he contribute THAT much money to their campaigns?



That was unreal, sycophant doesn't quite reach the level of spineless pandering the republicans demonstrated. Mice have a larger backbone. Corporate puppets extraordinaire. 

Bank Yankers - Jamie Dimon on Capitol Hill - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/14/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central


"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home -but not for housing. They are strong for labor - but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage - the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all - but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine - for people who can afford them. They consider electrical power a great blessing - but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They think American standard of living is a fine thing - so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it." Harry S. Truman


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## uscitizen

My neighbor who has an account at Chase asked the question, "What's my bank doing gambling on moves in interest rates, currencies, and commodes"? The US Congress needs to answer that question.

They gamble on toilets?????'
No wonder it all went down the crapper.


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## usmcstinger

uscitizen said:


> It had to go somewhere....


 Get off your lazy butt and find out!


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## Flopper

If you wanna be a bank, take deposits and lend money and be part of the FDIC, that's great.  If you want to be a hedge fund and take investor money and speculate, have at it. But putting the two together can be disastrous as we have seen in the 2008 financial crisis. The financial health of a large banking institution should not be tied to hedge-fund-type activity.  Thanks to financial deregulation, what should be the most solid and conservative segments of business has become the most speculative.  If the banks are successful in their risk management schemes, they will make huge profits.  If they fail, the taxpayer has to bail them out.


----------



## percysunshine

zonly1 said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or vanished because of overvaluation by appraisers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't vanish. It just traded hands.
> 
> When people decide to use financial markets as a casino, and get burned, they have no further place to look other than a mirror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THat's dumbest thing I ve heard in some time.  You forget Glass steagal and the uptick rule, furthermore, High Frequency traders are 2% of the mkt while making 70+% vol sales.  The game is rigged with that high of control....todays financial markets that are the movers are involved with fabinucci curve trading principles puss others. Stock mkt puss for fears on the private investor and anticipate the guppies in the pond...like shooting fish in a barrel.
Click to expand...


Let me guess. You are 22 years old and have neither bought, nor sold, anything of value in your entire life.


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## Toro

editec said:


> Please note here that these BETS were NAKED derivatives.



You don't know that.


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## uscitizen

usmcstinger said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> It had to go somewhere....
> 
> 
> 
> Get off your lazy butt and find out!
Click to expand...


It was not my money, I have no money invested with that outfit.


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## ABikerSailor

Flopper said:


> If you wanna be a bank, take deposits and lend money and be part of the FDIC, that's great.  If you want to be a hedge fund and take investor money and speculate, have at it. But putting the two together can be disastrous as we have seen in the 2008 financial crisis. The financial health of a large banking institution should not be tied to hedge-fund-type activity.  Thanks to financial deregulation, what should be the most solid and conservative segments of business has become the most speculative.  If the banks are successful in their risk management schemes, they will make huge profits.  If they fail, the taxpayer has to bail them out.



So what made Bush Jr. think it was a good idea?

Investments in HalliBurton perhaps?


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## waltky

Mebbe it was dat bus monitor lady...

... dat got picked on by dem kids...

... onna school bus.


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## California Girl

ABikerSailor said:


> I'm still wondering why the Republicans were all but on their knees blowing Diamon when he's the one that did the fucked up thing in the first place?
> 
> Does he contribute THAT much money to their campaigns?



He's actually pretty pally with Obama... funny how you pretend that's not true. Makes you look like a jack ass when you ignore the truth.


----------



## California Girl

Flopper said:


> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chase has been leading the charge in trying to reduce risk for over 10 years and apparently not very successfully.  Of course, if they did what they should be doing, managing customer deposits and making loans instead speculating in currency and derivatives markets, there wouldn't be any need for the elaborate risk management.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't keep a lid on it because they can't help but create a new speculation.  Kick the can.  YEEEHAW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is a description of the trading that lost all the money.  "Its incredibly complicated, but basically he was selling a form of insurance to other investors based on his belief that certain U.S. corporate bonds would be very secure. He sold so much of it that any blip in the market could have caused him enormous pain. The market blipped. JPMorgan suffered losses of at least $2 billion, and potentially much more."
> 
> How the JPMorgan trade happened and what it means - The Washington Post
> 
> My neighbor who has an account at Chase asked the question, "What's my bank doing gambling on moves in interest rates, currencies, and commodities"?   The US Congress needs to answer that question.
> 
> Damin has admitted that JP Morgan Chase, the largest casino in world, didn't know how much risk they were taking.  That's pretty scary when you consider Chase holds over trillion dollars in deposits, 15% of the nation's GNP.
Click to expand...




> Jamie Dimon was once the silver-haired hero of Wall Street, scooping up failing banks during the worst of the financial crisis and avoiding the kind of toxic mortgage bonds that sent competitors into bankruptcy and pushed the American economy to the brink.
> He was also one of President Barack Obamas most prominent Wall Street friends, a rare high-profile Democrat in an industry dominated by low-tax, free-market Republicans. Dimon spent several years in Obamas hometown of Chicago, where he ran Bank One after a nasty breakup with his one-time mentor. He got to know Rahm Emanuel. He hired Bill Daley as a top executive before Daley became Obamas second chief of staff. He gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions to Democrats.
> 
> Obama returned all the love, at least at first. Dimon made at least 16 trips to the White House and met at least three times with Obama  a bond that allowed the president to appear business-friendly. The New York Times in 2009 called Dimon Obamas favorite banker.



Read more: The Jamie Dimon - President Obama saga - POLITICO.com

Love the way the left rewrite facts that don't suit them.


----------



## Jroc

California Girl said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't keep a lid on it because they can't help but create a new speculation.  Kick the can.  YEEEHAW
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a description of the trading that lost all the money.  "Its incredibly complicated, but basically he was selling a form of insurance to other investors based on his belief that certain U.S. corporate bonds would be very secure. He sold so much of it that any blip in the market could have caused him enormous pain. The market blipped. JPMorgan suffered losses of at least $2 billion, and potentially much more."
> 
> How the JPMorgan trade happened and what it means - The Washington Post
> 
> My neighbor who has an account at Chase asked the question, "What's my bank doing gambling on moves in interest rates, currencies, and commodities"?   The US Congress needs to answer that question.
> 
> Damin has admitted that JP Morgan Chase, the largest casino in world, didn't know how much risk they were taking.  That's pretty scary when you consider Chase holds over trillion dollars in deposits, 15% of the nation's GNP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jamie Dimon was once the silver-haired hero of Wall Street, scooping up failing banks during the worst of the financial crisis and avoiding the kind of toxic mortgage bonds that sent competitors into bankruptcy and pushed the American economy to the brink.
> He was also one of President Barack Obamas most prominent Wall Street friends, a rare high-profile Democrat in an industry dominated by low-tax, free-market Republicans. Dimon spent several years in Obamas hometown of Chicago, where he ran Bank One after a nasty breakup with his one-time mentor. He got to know Rahm Emanuel. He hired Bill Daley as a top executive before Daley became Obamas second chief of staff. He gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions to Democrats.
> 
> Obama returned all the love, at least at first. Dimon made at least 16 trips to the White House and met at least three times with Obama  a bond that allowed the president to appear business-friendly. The New York Times in 2009 called Dimon Obamas favorite banker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more: The Jamie Dimon - President Obama saga - POLITICO.com
> 
> Love the way the left rewrite facts that don't suit them.
Click to expand...


umm...check post #21


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## Paulie

percysunshine said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> It had to go somewhere....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the trade.
> 
> It is an interesting topic. Some group like Chase, or Barclays loses a couple billion dollars, but the money did not evaporate, it just changed hands. Someone is always on the other side of the trade, or there would never be a trade in the first place.
> 
> 
> All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands. People who bought a house in California for $50,000,  and then sold it 7 years later for $500,000 were the other hands.
Click to expand...


Not entirely accurate.  When a bank writes down a mortgage in default, that money extinguishes from existence.  It was just debt money assumed to exist that the bank created in the first place by offering the loan.


----------



## ABikerSailor

California Girl said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't keep a lid on it because they can't help but create a new speculation.  Kick the can.  YEEEHAW
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a description of the trading that lost all the money.  "Its incredibly complicated, but basically he was selling a form of insurance to other investors based on his belief that certain U.S. corporate bonds would be very secure. He sold so much of it that any blip in the market could have caused him enormous pain. The market blipped. JPMorgan suffered losses of at least $2 billion, and potentially much more."
> 
> How the JPMorgan trade happened and what it means - The Washington Post
> 
> My neighbor who has an account at Chase asked the question, "What's my bank doing gambling on moves in interest rates, currencies, and commodities"?   The US Congress needs to answer that question.
> 
> Damin has admitted that JP Morgan Chase, the largest casino in world, didn't know how much risk they were taking.  That's pretty scary when you consider Chase holds over trillion dollars in deposits, 15% of the nation's GNP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jamie Dimon was once the silver-haired hero of Wall Street, scooping up failing banks during the worst of the financial crisis and avoiding the kind of toxic mortgage bonds that sent competitors into bankruptcy and pushed the American economy to the brink.
> He was also one of President Barack Obamas most prominent Wall Street friends, a rare high-profile Democrat in an industry dominated by low-tax, free-market Republicans. Dimon spent several years in Obamas hometown of Chicago, where he ran Bank One after a nasty breakup with his one-time mentor. He got to know Rahm Emanuel. He hired Bill Daley as a top executive before Daley became Obamas second chief of staff. He gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions to Democrats.
> 
> Obama returned all the love, at least at first. Dimon made at least 16 trips to the White House and met at least three times with Obama  a bond that allowed the president to appear business-friendly. The New York Times in 2009 called Dimon Obamas favorite banker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more: The Jamie Dimon - President Obama saga - POLITICO.com
> 
> Love the way the left rewrite facts that don't suit them.
Click to expand...


Nice cherry picking, here's something else from that same link as well, please note the bolded parts........................



> Obama returned all the love, at least at first. Dimon made at least 16 trips to the White House and met at least three times with Obama  a bond that allowed the president to appear business-friendly. The New York Times in 2009 called Dimon Obamas favorite banker.
> 
> But in the wake of a $2 billion trading loss, Dimons reputation as a blunder-free Master of the Universe is badly tarnished. *And Dimons connection to the president, which the JPMorgan CEO now says was never all that strong, seems gone for good*. Dimon has joined the loud chorus of Obamas Wall Street critics, calling himself a barely Democrat who is turned off by what he views as the administrations anti-business rhetoric and policies.
> 
> 
> Read more: The Jamie Dimon - President Obama saga - POLITICO.com



Besides, he was named Obama's favorite banker back in 2009, and it is now 2012.


----------



## percysunshine

Paulie said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> It had to go somewhere....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the trade.
> 
> It is an interesting topic. Some group like Chase, or Barclays loses a couple billion dollars, but the money did not evaporate, it just changed hands. Someone is always on the other side of the trade, or there would never be a trade in the first place.
> 
> 
> All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands. People who bought a house in California for $50,000,  and then sold it 7 years later for $500,000 were the other hands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not entirely accurate.  When a bank writes down a mortgage in default, that money extinguishes from existence.  It was just debt money assumed to exist that the bank created in the first place by offering the loan.
Click to expand...



An unpaid loan is an unpaid loan. Someone got the money up front.


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## Paulie

percysunshine said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other side of the trade.
> 
> It is an interesting topic. Some group like Chase, or Barclays loses a couple billion dollars, but the money did not evaporate, it just changed hands. Someone is always on the other side of the trade, or there would never be a trade in the first place.
> 
> 
> All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands. People who bought a house in California for $50,000,  and then sold it 7 years later for $500,000 were the other hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not entirely accurate.  When a bank writes down a mortgage in default, that money extinguishes from existence.  It was just debt money assumed to exist that the bank created in the first place by offering the loan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An unpaid loan is an unpaid loan. Someone got the money up front.
Click to expand...


The bank creates the money out of thin air and it becomes an asset on their balance sheet.  If that loan is written off in the event of a default, the bank's balance sheet contracts, and the money supply decreases.  

You're looking at in too simplistic a way.


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## Flopper

California Girl said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't keep a lid on it because they can't help but create a new speculation.  Kick the can.  YEEEHAW
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a description of the trading that lost all the money.  "Its incredibly complicated, but basically he was selling a form of insurance to other investors based on his belief that certain U.S. corporate bonds would be very secure. He sold so much of it that any blip in the market could have caused him enormous pain. The market blipped. JPMorgan suffered losses of at least $2 billion, and potentially much more."
> 
> How the JPMorgan trade happened and what it means - The Washington Post
> 
> My neighbor who has an account at Chase asked the question, "What's my bank doing gambling on moves in interest rates, currencies, and commodities"?   The US Congress needs to answer that question.
> 
> Damin has admitted that JP Morgan Chase, the largest casino in world, didn't know how much risk they were taking.  That's pretty scary when you consider Chase holds over trillion dollars in deposits, 15% of the nation's GNP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jamie Dimon was once the silver-haired hero of Wall Street, scooping up failing banks during the worst of the financial crisis and avoiding the kind of toxic mortgage bonds that sent competitors into bankruptcy and pushed the American economy to the brink.
> He was also one of President Barack Obamas most prominent Wall Street friends, a rare high-profile Democrat in an industry dominated by low-tax, free-market Republicans. Dimon spent several years in Obamas hometown of Chicago, where he ran Bank One after a nasty breakup with his one-time mentor. He got to know Rahm Emanuel. He hired Bill Daley as a top executive before Daley became Obamas second chief of staff. He gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions to Democrats.
> 
> Obama returned all the love, at least at first. Dimon made at least 16 trips to the White House and met at least three times with Obama  a bond that allowed the president to appear business-friendly. The New York Times in 2009 called Dimon Obamas favorite banker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more: The Jamie Dimon - President Obama saga - POLITICO.com
> 
> Love the way the left rewrite facts that don't suit them.
Click to expand...

Jamie Dimon is not the problem.  He's probably the most competent all the big bank CEOs.  25 years of bank deregulation has created businesses that are not just too big to fail, but are too big to manage.  The only way the big banks can generate the profits demanded by investors is to balance off the relatively low return of conventional banking with highly speculative investments.  If they can manage their risk, which they have not done very effectively, they become very profitable but it they blow it, they can bring down the whole economy.


----------



## g5000

percysunshine said:


> All that housing money that supposedly evaporated in the 2008 realestate bubble? It just traded hands.



Completely false.


----------



## dilloduck

Flopper said:


> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chase has been leading the charge in trying to reduce risk for over 10 years and apparently not very successfully.  Of course, if they did what they should be doing, managing customer deposits and making loans instead speculating in currency and derivatives markets, there wouldn't be any need for the elaborate risk management.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't keep a lid on it because they can't help but create a new speculation.  Kick the can.  YEEEHAW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is a description of the trading that lost all the money.  "Its incredibly complicated, but basically he was selling a form of insurance to other investors based on his belief that certain U.S. corporate bonds would be very secure. He sold so much of it that any blip in the market could have caused him enormous pain. The market blipped. JPMorgan suffered losses of at least $2 billion, and potentially much more."
> 
> How the JPMorgan trade happened and what it means - The Washington Post
> 
> My neighbor who has an account at Chase asked the question, "What's my bank doing gambling on moves in interest rates, currencies, and commodities"?   The US Congress needs to answer that question.
> 
> Damin has admitted that JP Morgan Chase, the largest casino in world, didn't know how much risk they were taking.  That's pretty scary when you consider Chase holds over trillion dollars in deposits, 15% of the nation's GNP.
Click to expand...


Our economy is a shell game. Do you realize how much money people make just manipulating money or just plain gambling. They don't do a damn thing that a normal person would interpret as "work".


----------

