# Glorifying the single mother?



## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.

Why?

Single mothers= women who choose poor life partners. 

What is with the attempt to turn caring for your own child into some sort of special achievement?


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## Truthmatters (Dec 10, 2012)

women are to blame for all divorce?

is that what you are claiming?


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## Truthmatters (Dec 10, 2012)

Are single dads to be trashed too?


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## martybegan (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
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> Why?
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Its not just with single moms. Parts of our society see the need for positive reinforcement with regards to just about everything. While this by itself is not bad, it is the subsequent taboo on pointing out certain life-choices can be detrimental that causes problems in my opinion.


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## del (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
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after my father died, my mom was a single mother of six.

did she choose a poor life partner?


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child. 

However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.


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## Truthmatters (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I never said we shpd trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
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> However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.



so is this 50% of the male population is the fault of women who choose to commit to taking care of their offspring


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

del said:


> AmyNation said:
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> > Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
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No I wouldnt say she did.

However I'm speaking of the majority, not the minority. I wouldn't say most single mothers are that way due to death.


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## George Costanza (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
> 
> However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.



I agree - but sometimes, making the right choice simply is not that easy.


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## martybegan (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
> 
> However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.



See? By even pointing out the concept, you are being attacked by someone from the left. 

You might have qualified you response to limit it to single mothers who give birth to kids without even considering the need for a father post conception. That would limit your critique to those who create their own situation.

However people like truthmatters will still try to deamonize you because critisizing something a progressive beleives is a "protected group" is the equivalent of secular heresy. 

plus it makes you a big meanie.


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## TNHarley (Dec 10, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> this is yet moire proof of the rights default setting of HATE for everyone and everything



Anyone that dont agree with you is repub, ey? Amy is not a republican.


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## del (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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i would say 100% of marriages come without guarantees


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## uscitizen (Dec 10, 2012)

What I have noticed is the gloryifing of unwed mothers.
Not a good thing.
We had lots less of them when they were an embaressment.


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## del (Dec 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> What I have noticed is the gloryifing of unwed mothers.
> Not a good thing.
> We had lots less of them when they were an embaressment.



i would agree with this.


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## martybegan (Dec 10, 2012)

del said:


> uscitizen said:
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I have no issue with someone trying to make an unwed mother feel better about herself, after all a person with self worth will probably be a better parent, and the situation is what it is. 

It becomes an issue when taken to an extreme, where even considering that, hey, maybe if you want to have a kid you need at least a "partner" and the means to provide for your offspring becomes being "mean."


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

del said:


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Your are correct.

However, I think there is a difference in parents who are divorced and the "single parent " status.


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## del (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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well then where does the poor choice in life partner come in, if there is no partnership to begin with?


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

martybegan said:


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Yes, exactly. 

I would never suggest that single mothers should be shunned or feel shamed. However I don't think holding the status of single parent up as something special is good either.


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

del said:


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Hmm, do you mean if a woman has invetro?


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## Rozman (Dec 10, 2012)

Single Mom's are the future of this country.
Traditional marriage is considered a joke...
Now the Democrat party is pushing gay marriage and single Mom's as the way to go..

I bet the Democrat party loves OCTOMOM....


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## Rozman (Dec 10, 2012)

What can you expect when the Democrat party controls the education system...
They are teaching 11 year old's the proper way to put a condom on their partner.
Most of the girls laugh saying that Dad already showed them how...


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## George Costanza (Dec 10, 2012)

Rozman said:


> What can you expect when the Democrat party controls the education system...
> They are teaching 11 year old's the proper way to put a condom on their partner.
> Most of the girls laugh saying that Dad already showed them how...



That is just a flat, irresponsible statement - with all due respect.


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

Gay marriage offers a two parent home, a family unit and stability. 

I think saying families come in all sizes(which is the message I think most dems go for) is different than glorifying being a single mother. You shouldn't be proud that you had a one night stand, or a 3 month fling, with some guy and poped out a kid. That's not something to brag about. Since when is not abandoning your child to the state or your parents something special?


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## alan1 (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I would never suggest that single mothers should be shunned or feel shamed. However I don't think holding the status of single parent up as something special is good either.


If you really want to see the status of a single parent held up as something special, look at single fathers.  I know this to be true because I lived it.  Divorced couples where the mother had custody and the father was mostly absent was pretty common when I was a divorced father raising two daughters.  The single mothers, teachers and daycare workers that I met through daycare, school, work, etc looked at me like a god (almost) for being one of those rare men that raised his children alone.  I would even go so far as to say it was a double-standard with me on the benefitting end.   The "mommy network" for single mothers can be pretty strong, when you are the only father in that network, it is amazing the respect a single father gets.
I'm not bragging, just telling you how it was for my situation.


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

I can see having respect for someone's struggles, however I feel as though, as a society the pendulum has swung too far. We've gone from shaming single mothers so much that women wore fake wedding rings, to holding up single mothers as a status symbol.


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## midcan5 (Dec 10, 2012)

The problem with this thread is that it starts with an unproved assumption. Personally I cannot think of a single person I know who has ever glorified single moms either as praise or as pejorative. Sometimes things happen and sometimes some single people be they man or woman do marvelous work. Ain't nuttin wrong with that. Now if there are really more single moms let's put on our thinking caps and find out why. As for glorification as if this were a goal that is BS.


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## Ravi (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
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> Why?
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I think it is a plot to keep women from aborting, this glorification of motherhood.


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## Ravi (Dec 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> What I have noticed is the gloryifing of unwed mothers.
> Not a good thing.
> We had lots less of them when they were an embaressment.



Bring back the orphanages and baby mills!


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## Sherry (Dec 10, 2012)

Consistently being a good and responsible parent is one of the biggest challenges in life...it's also one of the most rewarding. I don't feel a particular need for any praise, but if offering support and recognition to some single parents means that it will lift them up, _*and in turn that giving spirit is passed on to their kids*_, well THAT is the most important thing.


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## Ravi (Dec 10, 2012)

Kids are either precious or a burden on society.

I go with the former.


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

midcan5 said:


> The problem with this thread is that it starts with an unproved assumption. Personally I cannot think of a single person I know who has ever glorified single moms either as praise or as pejorative. Sometimes things happen and sometimes some single people be they man or woman do marvelous work. Ain't nuttin wrong with that. Now if there are really more single moms let's put on our thinking caps and find out why. As for glorification as if this were a goal that is BS.



It starts with my own personal experience. I could post the fb pic that finally broke the camels back so to speak, and I could post the million and one other pics and things hailing single mothers that pop up on my fb feed if it will make you feel better.


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## Ravi (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> midcan5 said:
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> > The problem with this thread is that it starts with an unproved assumption. Personally I cannot think of a single person I know who has ever glorified single moms either as praise or as pejorative. Sometimes things happen and sometimes some single people be they man or woman do marvelous work. Ain't nuttin wrong with that. Now if there are really more single moms let's put on our thinking caps and find out why. As for glorification as if this were a goal that is BS.
> ...


Please do.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
> 
> However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.



What should we be doing? 

Who decides what should be done? 

And how is that decision implemented and enforced?


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

Ravi said:


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

One of my fb friends often shares from a Facebook page called "proud single moms".


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

martybegan said:


> AmyNation said:
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> > Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
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Everyone gets a trophy syndrome?


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
> 
> However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.



That's a ridiculous statement. Indeed, single parent households have to work so much harder, just to get by. I think its incredibly wrong for us to judge those men and women because they ARE special.

Are you saying that single mothers and fathers CHOOSE that? If so, that's a very small percentage. 

And, its very disturbing that you seem to be talking only about single mothers. Do the single fathers get a pass?

Have we really made no progress since this example of total R stupidity - 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUbXOIOvXow]re: Thought Catalog article: Dan Quayle/Murphy Brown/LA Riots. - YouTube[/ame]


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 10, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> AmyNation said:
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> > I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
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Are single parents supposed to dump their kids at the fire station? Would THAT be more responsible than working their butts off to support them?

I'm really not getting this thread at all. 

How could we have anything BUT respect for the person who takes on the responsibility that their spouse walked out on, or, as in the case of military vets, died serving their country.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 10, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Kids are either precious or a burden on society.
> 
> I go with the former.



So do single mothers and fathers.

I just can't wrap my head around that being a bad thing. 

What's really bizarre is that these people chose not to abort. Where are all the anti-choice people in this? Or, are they doing what they always do? Deserting the kid once its born.


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> AmyNation said:
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1st I'm speaking of the majority, not the minority.


If your child only has one parent, than the other parent is obviously a poor choice, whether male or female.

I'm speaking specifically of single mothers because that is the message being promoted.


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
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> Why?
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There are many degrees of "caring" for your child. To some it is dropping the child off at day care while they go to work. To others it is making sure they are available to be there for their child and be "hands on" and involved.

Kudos do not mean much in any reality, what matters is doing the best anyone can. Life throws curve balls, sometimes what seems like a good choice in marriage partner goes wrong what matters is staying being a parent. Giving a child stability and making them feel   safe and secure. Being someone the child can look up to with respect and admiration. Life is hard, parenting is harder and at night when tucking your child and looking into their eyes you know that there is no love like that anywhere else on this earth.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm still not clear on whether its only single mothers who are being demonized? or, does this include single fathers as well?

Either way, its indefensible.


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## AmyNation (Dec 10, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> I'm still not clear on whether its only single mothers who are being demonized? or, does this include single fathers as well?
> 
> Either way, its indefensible.



You make a very good point.


Is it impossible to not demonize the single parent status, while still promoting 2 parent households? There has to be a medium between shaming people and glorifying a condition that is not best for children.


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## uscitizen (Dec 10, 2012)

Rozman said:


> Single Mom's are the future of this country.
> Traditional marriage is considered a joke...
> Now the Democrat party is pushing gay marriage and single Mom's as the way to go..
> 
> I bet the Democrat party loves OCTOMOM....



Bristol Palin.


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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Attempting to demonize any responsible  parent, single or not, is a cheap shot.


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## Luddly Neddite (Dec 10, 2012)

Connery said:


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I absolutely agree and I can't imagine what Amy Nation had in mind with this thread. 

I'm remembering back to the R's attacks on single mothers - disgusting.


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


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Are the only choices abortion or single parenthood? Perhaps another choice might be to make babies(or prevent pregnancy if the sex partner is not parent material) only with men or women that you would want to be a co-parent with you? Just a thought. I kind of like to see children raised by both parents as much and as often as possible.


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

Connery said:


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True but I have known women who made babies with men knowing the men were never going to be father material but they thought and they believed that the growing life inside of them would "change" these men. It did not usually. Was that responsible thinking and or planning? I am not talking about marriages gone bad. Those happen. I am talking about babies being carelessly created before marriage or even a solid commitment from a sex partner.

Get better birth control or better men maybe?


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## April (Dec 10, 2012)

del said:


> AmyNation said:
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My thoughts the same...was going to respond with the same sentiments before reading the first part of this thread.
I became a widow to three. My husband was my everything...then he left us.


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

AngelsNDemons said:


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So sad AnD. Lost my Dad young too. Tough road sometimes.

I thought this was about women who never married but made babies with men who were good enough for sex but not so good in the fatherhood department. At least that is what I was addressing.

I see one as a choice and one as not.


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## April (Dec 10, 2012)

Dreamy said:


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Oh no, don't get me wrong...I understand what you are trying to convey...I too think a lot of women make poor choices in the men dept. when it comes to having babies.

IMO there are way too many women who 'hook up' only to end up pregnant...the fact that they end up having 3 or 4 children all fathered by different 'mates' doesn't qualify them to be praised for it...in fact, I think it's a bit sickening because it's the children that suffer, because more likely than not the mother is only out for herself...as is proven when she sets out to get pregnant or refuses to take the right action to prevent pregnancy.
Her carelessness and lack of morals only proves her to be the selfish bitch that she is. The father running off is just an addition to that selfishness.


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

Dreamy said:


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I qualified my statement with being a "responsible"  parent. Attempting to be manipulative and using emotional blackmail is hardly responsible. 

Better men is not the answer the woman who uses this to get her man has other issues which a man will not cure.


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

Connery said:


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Not sure they are manipulative as much as totally unrealistic.

I have seen the same posts on FB that Amy was addressing and yes I know the background story on at least a few of them in my circle and the women chose poorly imo and now have created a world with struggle for themselves and their children as well a world with no father figure for their child. The cutesy FB signs make light of what really happened before. For the most part they chose men whose lack of responsibility was known to them and whose warnings signs were an automatic guarantee they were going to make them "single mothers".

Too many women make it too easy for these deadbeat men. Be choosy who you bed or at least be hard ass on the BC would be my advise.


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

Dreamy said:


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Creating a situation in which to trap a man into a commitment is manipulative. It is calculating and deceptive .

Being choosy and having a crystal ball. Men are not the only deadbeats emotionally or financially. Sometimes there are no warning signs, sometimes people just fall apart and become that which we would never consciously choose to be our mate.  That is when parenthood really kicks in and there is no wiggle room to be a dead beat yourself.


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

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Connery, I am actually posting on specific cases I know so I don't pretend to speak for all cases. What burns me is these relationships last barely to the birth of the child. So he was a great guy 9 months before they say but voila he is a monster by the time baby is born. I call these women starry eyed fools. I am not blaming men as much as I am women being too quick to make babies with men who just want to get laid. Dammit use the birth control is you want to play and stop thinking a good lay is also going to be a good dad. Until men can get pregnant this falls to women to be choosy.


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

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I am  speaking of actual circumstance as well.


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

Connery said:


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And that is why I think I get what Amy is saying here about FB posts. I have seen the same and it just is laughable calling some of these women "heroes" when they made some pretty dumb ass choices about who to make their baby's Daddy.


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

Dreamy said:


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I am not concerned about dumb choices with the daddies I am concerned about the choices that will be made after the child is born.

Two things to attempt to rehabilitate this OP is senseless. Also, FB is a whole lotta nonsense.


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## MHunterB (Dec 10, 2012)

I picked my husband precisely *because* he was wonderful Daddy material - I watched him get down on the floor and play with somebody's little one who was just at the 'cruising' stage, and he was really into it.   That settled it for me!  Never gave a thought to how we'd make a living......


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

Connery said:


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I think the topic is a valid one even without the FB aspect. The trouble is the potentially poor choices made after the child is born would not be a factor if the better choices were made before the child is conceived. In the end all most of us want is to see children raised by good parents, hopefully both parents.


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## MHunterB (Dec 10, 2012)

I think we need to bring back the old T-shirts that said "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"......

Neither one of us NEEEDS the other.  But we sure do WANT to be with one another.  : ))


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

Dreamy said:


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"Glorifying the single mother?" a valid topic? Being the primary caregiver since the moment my son was born I can tell you glory means shit. It is getting into the nitty gritty of parenting, being exhausted, making lifestyle tradeoffs making sure that boy has what he needs emotionally, nutritionally, socially, educationally the list is endless.  When I hear a glint of sarcasm, especially a day that ended late while being a den leader and building a car I say keep the sarcastic nonsense and give me a soft pillow.

So I must have chosen a poor partner? Life hands you a bag of shit sometimes and it is up to me to make things work. Glorify my ass, I have a responsibility that is renewed every single day to be "present" for my son no matter how I am feeling, no matter what.  I would like to say I have my family of origin to help but I do not. This is reality not some bullshit on FB. It is about commitment, love and giving of one's self. When I put my head on my pillow and go over my day I would not change a single thing.


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## Dreamy (Dec 10, 2012)

Connery said:


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As I have stated I am addressing solely people I know in my life, not you or your life Connery.

I get your point and was never addressing you personally and never would.

By the way,many of us know about sacrifice, selfless parenting done for the love of a child.


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## Connery (Dec 10, 2012)

Dreamy said:


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Of course, I am not suggesting otherwise. Nevertheless, my premise is still the same, the woman who attempts to bamboozle a man into parenthood is being manipulative and calculating and is not a responsible parent.


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## Luissa (Dec 11, 2012)

What I think is funny is people you push for a women to keep the child, then judge her for being a single mom.


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## Meathead (Dec 11, 2012)

I don't see any reason to glorify or stigmatize single mothers. However, I think that single mothers and  irresponsible fathers who expect others to pay for their offspring decidedly objectionable. I would not find a government incentive-laden sterilization program for women who have more than 3 welfare-dependent children immoral or objectionable.


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## Kiki Cannoli (Dec 11, 2012)

I dont think the OP wishes to demonize single parents.  Amynation is questioning if the daily parade is necessary.

I guess they need that extra boost to keep going.  I am surprised they have time for facebook.


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## Noomi (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
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Single mums don't always choose poor life partners. Have you ever thought the person they believed was their soul mate was actually a piece of shit who walked out on them the second they became pregnant?


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## Meathead (Dec 11, 2012)

Noomi said:


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Still, a poor choice obviously. What is your point in response to the above?


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## Noomi (Dec 11, 2012)

Meathead said:


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Isn't my point obvious? That the OP is wrong in saying that single women choose poor life partners.


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## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


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I see that more as a pep talk.

I'm not a single mother and I am very thankful that I'm not. I can't imagine a harder job.


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## Meathead (Dec 11, 2012)

Noomi said:


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And you are countering the OP with the highlighted above?! Maybe you think the OP should have said baby-daddies?


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## Noomi (Dec 11, 2012)

I am just saying it is wrong to say women made poor life choices - half the time it wasn't there fault the man they chose was a douche bag.


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## Meathead (Dec 11, 2012)

Noomi said:


> I am just saying it is wrong to say women made poor life choices - half the time it wasn't there fault the man they chose was a douche bag.


Isn't that an obvious definition of a poor choice?!

You are trying to counter a point by validating it, do you realize that?


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## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

Kiki Cannoli said:


> I dont think the OP wishes to demonize single parents.  Amynation is questioning if the daily parade is necessary.
> 
> I guess they need that extra boost to keep going.  I am surprised they have time for facebook.



Exactly.

It's when it's held up as an achievement that concerns me. The look at me, I'm an amazing person because I make sure my child is fed every day.


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



No decent man abandons his child.


----------



## martybegan (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



That sums it up rather nicely, yes.


----------



## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Kiki Cannoli said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think the OP wishes to demonize single parents.  Amynation is questioning if the daily parade is necessary.
> ...


Sometimes it is an achievement.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Kiki Cannoli said:
> ...






Right?  I guess some people get too upset when single mothers proceed with a positive approach to difficult circumstances by offering each other daily encouragement and support.  Damn all those evil women to hell lest they "glorify" themselves!


----------



## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

Women attacking women always pisses me off.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Women attacking women always pisses me off.






You and me both, sistah!


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 11, 2012)

del said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
> ...



That wasn't what she meant, but of course, you already knew that.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
> 
> However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.



Or the father chose a poor mother.  Don't automatically assume that the man was the bad half of the apple here.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 11, 2012)

del said:


> i would say 100% of marriages come without guarantees



Agreed, but more and more of them seem to be failing as time goes on and what of the single parents who were never married to begin with?  That number is rapidly increasing and is one of the top causes of "poverty" in America.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 11, 2012)

Valerie said:


> Right?  I guess some people get too upset when single mothers proceed with a positive approach to difficult circumstances by offering each other daily encouragement and support.  Damn all those evil women to hell lest they "glorify" themselves!



I think you're missing the OPs point.  I'm also wondering if you are a single mother since you happen to be taking a lot of offense to her viewpoint.


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

This thread is a great example of my point. 

Suggest that a child having only 1 parent is not something to aspire to, and the uproar is ridiculous. I don't think we should shame or demonize single parents, simply that in an attempt to take the shame out of it, we have swung too far and that we forget that being a single parent is not a good family model.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Right?  I guess some people get too upset when single mothers proceed with a positive approach to difficult circumstances by offering each other daily encouragement and support.  Damn all those evil women to hell lest they "glorify" themselves!
> ...







Make up whatever you want, Bro... I got the big "point".  


FTR - I'm guessing the OP probably isn't even a woman, so there you go!  






AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? *At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
> *
> Why?
> 
> ...


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

Ha! Not only am I a crazy rightwinger, but I must not own a vagina if I think children deserve 2 parents and that single mothers don't deserve a medal for getting knocked up?


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



Well being a single mother is really hard, having to do everything by yourself with kids.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. *I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child. *
> However, I don't think we should be holding up the status of single parent as something wonderful or that caring for your own child as something special.



Thats true in some cases but not all the time, I know several women whos husband have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't think they chose poorly in the father of their children.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Ha! Not only am I a crazy rightwinger, but I must not own a vagina if I think children deserve 2 parents and that single mothers don't deserve a medal for getting knocked up?





Aaah putting words in mouths and playing make-pretend is SO much fun!!!


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. *I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child. *
> ...


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



I know, I know. lol


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Right?  I guess some people get too upset when single mothers proceed with a positive approach to difficult circumstances by offering each other daily encouragement and support.  Damn all those evil women to hell lest they "glorify" themselves!
> ...



There has definitely been a disconnect by a few on what the OP is offering here.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Women attacking women always pisses me off.



Attacking women?  It's a freakin' discussion board discussing a premise not attacking actual people. 

Dammit, how dare we not applaud those people who make babies with known deadbeats, sometimes over and over.

Trophies for everyone!! Woo Hoo.


----------



## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> This thread is a great example of my point.
> 
> Suggest that a child having only 1 parent is not something to aspire to, and the uproar is ridiculous. I don't think we should shame or demonize single parents, simply that in an attempt to take the shame out of it, we have swung too far and that we forget that being a single parent is not a good family model.



It is usually better than the alternative.


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

I do understand there are exceptions to every rule, and that when speaking in generalities, not all people fit that description. 

Less than 2% of single mothers are widows.


----------



## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

Maybe you should have titled your thread Glorifying the Single Slut Mother? Because when you have to qualify it it takes away from your point.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Let me break this down for the confused.

Being a single mother or father does not grant you automatic "hero status". 

Let's just take parenting on a case by case basis and not presume any parent is a "hero" simply because the "single" parent chose a runaway/absentee dad or mom as the sperm and egg donor.


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Let me break this down for the confused.
> 
> Being a single mother or father does not grant you automatic "hero status".
> 
> Let's just take parenting on a case by case basis and not presume any parent is a "hero" simply because the "single" parent chose a runaway/absentee dad or mom as the sperm and egg donor.



Amen!


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



Sorry, I missed the posts where you addressed this.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Maybe you should have titled your thread Glorifying the Single Slut Mother? Because when you have to qualify it it takes away from your point.



Whats wrong with single slut mothers?


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Maybe you should have titled your thread Glorifying the Single Slut Mother? Because when you have to qualify it it takes away from your point.



I'm not speaking of only women who sleep around. I think if you married an asshole and hoped that getting knocked up would bind him to you, you shouldn't be basking in your single parent status either.

However, I clearly failed in my OP, I will try not to start with a rant in the future.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...






Oh but of course the OP has no "disconnect" whatsoever with the single mothers she sees on Facebook and the OPs big "point" is not taking any "offense to _their_ viewpoints" _at all_...riiiiiiiight?  Maybe the OP should speak-up directly to those women on Facebook and get back to us about how well that goes toward making her precious "point".


----------



## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Let me break this down for the confused.
> 
> Being a single mother or father does not grant you automatic "hero status".
> 
> Let's just take parenting on a case by case basis and not presume any parent is a "hero" simply because the "single" parent chose a runaway/absentee dad or mom as the sperm and egg donor.



A single parent that strives to provide a good life for their child/children IS A HERO. They could walk away from their responsibilities just like countless thousands of people.


----------



## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



no. i haven't seen anyone "glorify" single-motherhood.

neither have you.

and i find it odd that "once a day" something i've never seen on facebook would pop up in your feed.

i don't know why you even think it's an issue. if someone works their butt off taking care of a kid, there's nothing wrong with recognizing the effort.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you should have titled your thread Glorifying the Single Slut Mother? Because when you have to qualify it it takes away from your point.
> ...



Take this one out to the woodshed please.


----------



## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you should have titled your thread Glorifying the Single Slut Mother? Because when you have to qualify it it takes away from your point.
> ...


When you put it that way, it sounds as if your Facebook friend is the target of your ire, not single parents in general.


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

When did "not abandoning your child" become a hero worthy status?


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Let me break this down for the confused.
> ...



Case by case basis. The OP's point was simply that being a single mother does not mean you are automatically a good mother. Add in the fact that some women and men truly pick some obvious losers  to make babies with adds to the premise.


----------



## Ravi (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> When did "not abandoning your child" become a hero worthy status?



Probably right around the time people started demonizing single mothers.


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

jillian said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
> ...



Per usual, I'm always grateful when people tell me what I know


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Let me break this down for the confused.
> ...



Um, any parent could walk away. Being a single parent(not discussing widowed people)can sometimes be avoided but some people leave their brains far away from their libidos and really should not be surprised when they end up alone raising the children because the dirtbag they so "loved" was nothing more than someone looking to get laid...by any fool who would have him or her.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Dec 11, 2012)

I'm a single father who was raised by a single mom.
I think anything that glamorizes single-parent homes is a bad thing. You want to avoid it at almost all costs. We are not heros or heroines - we are cautionary tales.

But it IS hard work and when people recognize that - well ... I think it's OK to tell someone that you appreciate their hard work.


----------



## HUGGY (Dec 11, 2012)

*Glorifying the single mother? 
*

What is she wearing?


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, we live in a culture that hands out trophies for last place...

The bar has definitely been lowered.  But, that is liberalism... a lowering tide lowers all boats.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



Don't let it bother you... Jillian exists in a perpetual state of pissed off and has this weird need to tell everybody what they are saying or  thinking.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

nodoginnafight said:


> I'm a single father who was raised by a single mom.
> I think anything that glamorizes single-parent homes is a bad thing. You want to avoid it at almost all costs. We are not heros or heroines - we are cautionary tales.
> 
> But it IS hard work and when people recognize that - I think it's OK to tell someone that you appreciate their hard work.



Valid observation.

What I want to add is that I know one girl I greatly admire. Pregnant at 18, lots of help from family. Baby father is a jerk and father of convenience. When he can he shows up to be a Dad. Good times only of course. She works and goes to school and is raising a beautiful young girl of seven now. I truly admire her and I tell her so often. However she herself would tell you that her path has been a tough one. She is seeing a wonderful man now but she has never touted her single parent status as anything more than something she does because she loves her child. She said she wants better for her own child and hopes she one day avoids the same pitfalls.

She is one.

I can also think of several other women who are failing at the same situation for various reasons. They are no heroes to their children or the world. They are suckers and fools for crappy men, some more than once. One will not be certain of the paternity of her child until it is born. Single parents as heroes? Not always, anymore than all married parents are heroes and very few married parents get called heroes. They should for giving their children stability and both parents when possible.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a single father who was raised by a single mom.
> ...



The word "hero" is overused to the point of meaningless these days. But are you making an assuption that a single-parent home is less stable?

I would argue that is not always the case. In some cases a divorce is what provides a more stable home.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

nodoginnafight said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I agree it is overused. And no I make no assumptions and that is exactly what I am addressing here. The assumption that a single parent is automatically a hero. As I stated, take parenting on a case by case basis.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


----------



## ScienceRocks (Dec 11, 2012)

This is why there's so MANY single mothers.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_Th35NomQ]David Allan Coe-I made Linda Lovelace Gag - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 11, 2012)

I support single mothers.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



I agree with you here. Case-by-case is a good rule of thumb for virtually everything. (But I do apply case-by-case analysis on a case-by-case basis).


----------



## del (Dec 11, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> I support single mothers.



how many and was it voluntary or court ordered?


----------



## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



and yet there are huge percentages of men who do.

so there ya go.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 11, 2012)

del said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > I support single mothers.
> ...


----------



## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

martybegan said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > I never said we should trash single mothers, and I never said they were to blame for divorce. I said if you're a single mother, you choose poorly in a father for your child.
> ...



hijacked?

you mean unless we blow sunshine up her butt and pretend she's correct, the thread is being hijacked?

i'd suggest that it's an intentionally provocative thread intended to troll for responses.


----------



## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

martybegan said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



yet you think the woman's reproductive choice should be abridged so that she has to carry a child to term whether she wants one or not.

maybe you can't have it both ways. (and let's not play the 'well she shouldn't have sex' game, ok... because that's silliness).


----------



## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

Rozman said:


> Single Mom's are the future of this country.
> Traditional marriage is considered a joke...
> Now the Democrat party is pushing gay marriage and single Mom's as the way to go..
> 
> I bet the Democrat party loves OCTOMOM....



that's as stupid as anything i've seen on this board.

thanks for the laugh.

but, please, tell us again how bristol is supposed to be the poster child for abstinence.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

jillian said:


> Rozman said:
> 
> 
> > Single Mom's are the future of this country.
> ...






  Haven't you read any of mal's posts...???


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Valerie said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Rozman said:
> ...






Ooops, my bad... I thought you said it was The Stupidest.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

> Prevalence: Single motherhood is very common. Around half of today&#8217;s mothers will spend at least some time as the sole custodial parent.
> 
> Update: *As of 2011, 11.7 million families in the US were headed by a single parent*, 85.2% of which were headed by a female.1
> 
> Characteristics: Around 45% of single mothers have never married, around 55% are divorced, separated or widowed. Half have one child, 30% have two. About two fifths are White, one third Black, one quarter Hispanic. One quarter have a college degree, one sixth have not completed high school.




Single Mother Statistics


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Don't let it bother you... Jillian exists in a perpetual state of pissed off and has this weird need to tell everybody what they are saying or  thinking.






^ Ironic post is ironic.   







Anything to say about single mothers being bad bad bad, Soggy?


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Valerie said:


> > Prevalence: Single motherhood is very common. Around half of todays mothers will spend at least some time as the sole custodial parent.
> >
> > Update: *As of 2011, 11.7 million families in the US were headed by a single parent*, 85.2% of which were headed by a female.1
> >
> ...


 
Why so many today?


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

Only having one parent is bad for children. Being a single mother isnt an achievement.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > > Prevalence: Single motherhood is very common. Around half of todays mothers will spend at least some time as the sole custodial parent.
> ...







Because of all the sluts on welfare who glorify single motherhood on Facebook, silly!


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Valerie said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


 
Troll much?


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Only having one parent is bad for children. Being a single mother isnt an achievement.


 
The point in all this is the odd thinking that because someone had sex and makes a baby and gets dumped early on or never even had an earnest healthy relationship with the sex partner that they get enrolled in some hero status for doing it alone. Weird. How about hero status for those who use BC sensibly and make babies with better partners. You know the kind that actually want to be a parent and are willing to behave with some sense of responsibility when a pregnancy occurs.


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

We Need To Stop Glorifying Single Mothers | Right Wing News

"Because most of us know single mothers, know how hard they&#8217;re working, and wish them well, we do what we can to support them and build them up. That&#8217;s very understandable and it undoubtedly does some good. However, because we&#8217;re constantly talking about how wonderful single mothers are, we&#8217;re also making the option look a lot less scary than it should be to young girls &#8212; and that&#8217;s a very bad thing for them and for society."

I figured someone out there would have said it better than me


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

I see where AmyNation is coming from. Too often there is this gender bias of the "strength" of single mothers without acknowledging single fathers as well. I believe the acknowledgment is often misplaced, however there are those that do deserve some acknowledgment of their endurance. For example in Los Angeles urban communities there are a lot of impoverished women who've made bad life choices in mate selection. This becomes a psychological pattern and it continues over and over.* My question on this matter is, when acknowledging single motherhood, are we also acknowledging the women who continue to make obvious bad choices in mate selection, despite their ability to keep their family afloat?*

What I mean by 'obvious bad choices' I am referring to those women in the urban community who consciously get involved with gangsters, drug dealers, pimps, parole violators, etcetera, and for those who are color conscious, this question is cross-racial lines.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I see where AmyNation is coming from. Too often there is this gender bias of the "strength" of single mothers without acknowledging single fathers as well. I believe the acknowledgment is often misplaced, however there are those that do deserve some acknowledgment of their endurance. For example in Los Angeles urban communities there are a lot of impoverished women who've made bad life choices in mate selection. This becomes a psychological pattern and it continues over and over.* My question on this matter is, when acknowledging single motherhood, are we also acknowledging the women who continue to make obvious bad choices in mate selection, despite their ability to keep their family afloat?*
> 
> What I mean by 'obvious bad choices' I am referring to those women in the urban community who consciously get involved with gangsters, drug dealers, pimps, parole violators, etcetera, and for those who are color conscious, this question is cross-racial lines.


 
How does one's ability to keep their family afloat solely using government assistance a badge of honor I wonder? Some believe it is. 

Getting laid? Easy
Getting laid by a loser? Easy
Getting pregnant? Often easy.
Not using BC-Easy.
Getting pregnant by a loser? Pretty easy for some.
Raising child on the public dole? Easier than working.
Getting hero status for all of the above-Easy in a "everyone gets a trophy society."


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > I see where AmyNation is coming from. Too often there is this gender bias of the "strength" of single mothers without acknowledging single fathers as well. I believe the acknowledgment is often misplaced, however there are those that do deserve some acknowledgment of their endurance. For example in Los Angeles urban communities there are a lot of impoverished women who've made bad life choices in mate selection. This becomes a psychological pattern and it continues over and over.* My question on this matter is, when acknowledging single motherhood, are we also acknowledging the women who continue to make obvious bad choices in mate selection, despite their ability to keep their family afloat?*
> ...




I don't think raising a child on public assistance is as easy as you think, in fact if you've lived in the urban community as I have its quite the opposite. For instance many single mothers in impoverished communities also live in crime riddled communities. Not only are you worried about the food you put on the table for your children you also have to worry about the kids being subject to the influence of gangs and drugs, as many women on public assistance were in fact out working and looking for other jobs. There are many cases where siblings were raising siblings while the mother was out working, this leaves kids susceptible to the influence of drugs and gangs. Also schools within these communities that lack funding and after school programs may also push the influence of a life of crime upon the children. So while you may say getting government assistance is easy what about the surrounding influence? Many single mothers cannot just pick up and go to another neighborhood. Moving requires time and money.

I think you also misunderstood my question. Let me rephrase it for you in a different manner:

Upon acknowledging the strength of single motherhood, do we also acknowledge those mothers in those communities who make conscious bad choices in mate selection which produces children?


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...


 
Worrying is part of parenthood. Different worries for different parents perhaps but worries all the same.

Working outside of the home fulltime and raising children is much more difficult imo. I have seen both sides of the coin in my world. Does each side have their own distinct issues? Sure but my issue is that the choice was there before pregnancy and a poor choice was made by some and therefore the consequences will be what they will be. Unless a parent truly fights and claws to have only one baby with one jerk and then work at upward mobility plan they have chosen to keep failing.

Some bad lots in life are preventable and based on the stats of single mothers out there we have some serious issues with women choosing their dismal strife filled existance all because they did not prevent pregnancy by using any and all of the means available. They suffer but more importantly baby suffers. Having a baby before you can give it a fair decent life is selfish and foolish. Having several is shameful.


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



On that note dreamy you and I are saying the same thing and the way you worded it I am in total agreement. Which is why the question I posed was more towards questioning people who champion single motherhood without acknowledging womwn who've made, and continue to make bad choices while producing children.


----------



## uscitizen (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Kiki Cannoli said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think the OP wishes to demonize single parents.  Amynation is questioning if the daily parade is necessary.
> ...


Yes and likely their child will grow up with the same attitude

ON the other hand more and more grandchildren are being raised by grandparents.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Aristotle said:
> ...






You mean to say single mothers who champion themselves and encourage each other however difficult their lives may be? ..And all you guys can do is plod on as if they need to be reminded to feel ashamed of themselves...


----------



## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

No one said they should be ashamed, in fact I've repeatedly said the opposite. However, as another poster said, single parent status should be seen as a cautionary tale.


----------



## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Valerie said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...


 
The stats you posted earlier are very telling about the dismal state of single motherhood. The children pay for the careless choices of the parents. Sad.

Encouraging people in life to rise above adversity is fine. Making single motherhood look like a choice to aspire to achieve is both foolish and silly.


----------



## Valerie (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> No one said they should be ashamed, in fact I've repeatedly said the opposite. However, as another poster said, single parent status should be seen as a cautionary tale.







No one said they should be "glorified" either or all the other projections being made in this thread, but I'm sure single mothers everywhere appreciate your pointing to them for your most earnest warnings in life...  Maybe if single moms project a more dismal and less inspirational public existence the next generation will be better off for that cautionary tale.


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

Valerie said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...




I'm not doing anything just highlighting a societal fact. Personally I don't think a woman who makes the conscious decision to bear a child by men who are worthless worthy of being acknowledgment.


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## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

I'd settle for society being more honest about the abject poverty single mothers live in, that their children are more likely to abuse drugs/alcohol, to be sexually active teenagers and to be convicted of a crime.


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## Katzndogz (Dec 11, 2012)

If they lived in abject poverty I might agree. My slut step granddaughter chose single motherhood as a career and has an income of well over $5,000 a month.  If her kids grow up taking drugs it is because the slut is an addict.


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## arKangel (Dec 11, 2012)

Communists have been explaining why they glorify single motherhood for over a hundred years.

It's no secret.
The pinko's hate families.


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## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

I have a question for the forum. Do we deny personal responsibility?


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## Katzndogz (Dec 11, 2012)

arKangel said:


> Communists have been explaining why they glorify single motherhood for over a hundred years.
> 
> It's no secret.
> The pinko's hate families.



The state is both mother and father.


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## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

arKangel said:


> Communists have been explaining why they glorify single motherhood for over a hundred years.
> 
> It's no secret.
> The pinko's hate families.



that must be it


----------



## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I'd settle for society being more honest about the abject poverty single mothers live in, that their children are more likely to abuse drugs/alcohol, to be sexually active teenagers and to be convicted of a crime.



all true.

then isn't the answer to teach kids about birth control and safe sex and then to have abortion be readily available and, hopefully, infrequently used?

yet the places where the rate of single motherhood is the highest are the places where those things aren't the norm.


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## alan1 (Dec 11, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> I have a question for the forum. Do we deny personal responsibility?



The moment the government forces me to support another person via taxation and welfare, my decision on that matter has been revoked.


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

alan1 said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question for the forum. Do we deny personal responsibility?
> ...



Well I do agree with the above but in retrospect the government does not force you but I see your point.


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## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

jillian said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > I'd settle for society being more honest about the abject poverty single mothers live in, that their children are more likely to abuse drugs/alcohol, to be sexually active teenagers and to be convicted of a crime.
> ...


 
Jillian, I live in the real world and know far too many girls who do not use BC. Men are even worse. BC is available. I am not pro-abortion but the choice is there. We are talking about people who don't practice responsibility. Some of these women want to "make new families" and think having a baby with some jerk is the way to get this family.

What burns me is there are many good young fathers and mothers, working hard to give their family a decent life and no one calls them heroes or points to them but a woman who gets pregnant by a loser of her choosing is suddenly a role model. Bleh.


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## jillian (Dec 11, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



you'll forgive me if i look at statistical reality and not your anecdotal "evidence".

again, do you want people to make that effort? or do you think they should have abortion and birth control available.

i spent a lot of time in the bronx family court early in my career. i think that's pretty "real world". 

but the reality is that the largest group of people on welfare are white single mothers... and by leaps and bounds they exist in the bible belt more than in any other geographic area.

that's what happens when you spend a decade teaching abstinence only.


----------



## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

To add to Dreamy's point I meet far too many women (my mother included) who have celebrated single motherhood. I mean, if you are a single mother and that is the card you've been delt with there is nothing much you can do. However I have met far too many women who are ok with having "baby daddies" who are known gang bangers and who, still live in the slums and still seek the "bad boys" who have no jobs or any credible skills for a trade. This just pisses me off that we tend to lump these women along with the actual deserving women who've struggled to make it.


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## Aristotle (Dec 11, 2012)

jillian said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



And if you don't mind my own statistical evidence (which you are free to challenge) that whites make up 74% of the U.S population.

The Bible belt is pro life and in the south there is only 1 abortion clinic in Mississippi.

The use of contraceptives is discouraged and education especially sex education is poor in the south


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## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> To add to Dreamy's point I meet far too many women (my mother included) who have celebrated single motherhood. I mean, if you are a single mother and that is the card you've been delt with there is nothing much you can do. However I have met far too many women who are ok with having "baby daddies" who are known gang bangers and who, still live in the slums and still seek the "bad boys" who have no jobs or any credible skills for a trade. This just pisses me off that we tend to lump these women along with the actual deserving women who've struggled to make it.


 
Exactly. Not all single mothers are the same. Some should not be admired nor looked up to at all. I am not of the mindset that everyone gets a trophy.


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## AmyNation (Dec 11, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



Is that clinic still open? With the governor gloating that Mississippi would be abortion free, I was sure they has closed up shop by now.


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## Dreamy (Dec 11, 2012)

jillian said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


 
Are you offering statistical information(don't see it) here or just your own ancedotal "evidence"?

So you are blaming most pregnancies on abstinence teachings not on women and men not using BC because they are irresponsible?


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## arKangel (Dec 12, 2012)

Trolls be trollin'


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## arKangel (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Has anyone noticed in the last few years, the glorifying of the single mother? At least once a day my Facebook feed shows yet another "single mothers are superheroes" or some such thing.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



First,
Caring for your own child is the ultimate of all achievements.

Second,
This is not some new thing.  Pinko scum have been preaching for quite some time their agenda as to the destruction of families.  They have been publishing this for over 100 years.

Third,
How do we stop it?
Please, lets make this a clean discussion on how to stop this abomination.


Those who take this opportunity to preach hate, who preach that mothers should kill their children. Do you want to feed their agenda?

I think most would agree that the baby-hater is the lowest of the low.  

Do not play into their game.  Notice the attempt by a resident puppet to steer this discussion as to manipulate the turning of a blind eye to their profiting from destroying the life of some child who had parents making "poor" choices?
It's rather obvious if one takes an objective gander.

Pinko's hate the poor, the middle class, and  they absolutely hate everyone who is humane.  Don't let their propaganda affect your judgement of individuals. 

In short, don't feed the trolls.


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## R.C. Christian (Dec 12, 2012)

67% percent of black children are born out wedlock but that's because they were already way behind to begin with. 

The same is already happening in every other demographic.

The commies did a great job tearing apart the American family.


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## arKangel (Dec 12, 2012)

R.C. Christian said:


> 67% percent of black children are born out wedlock but that's because they were already way behind to begin with.
> 
> The same is already happening in every other demographic.
> 
> The commies did a great job tearing apart the American family.



Eh, considering the amount of time they have had to work with...
I'd say a so-so job at best.

Lets face it, pinko's are wealthy, viscous and absolutely evil, but they are still pretty darn stupid.

So what do we do to turn the tide?
We could just wait them out.  Not let their propaganda bother us so much.
Seems more and more that is the only effect they really have.

It's easy to defeat an opponent if all you have to do is ignore them.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Dec 12, 2012)

arKangel said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > 67% percent of black children are born out wedlock but that's because they were already way behind to begin with.
> ...



No. These bastards won't let up, and they're smarter than you think they are. They calculate in terms of decades and not weeks or months. Unlike Americans, their historical memory is vast. Americans are a "have it right now" kind of culture. 

I don't have the all the answers but I can say for certain that we would have to employ the same tactics to take back the country as they used to enslave it. 

It took them roughly 48 years to get this far so It will take us along time to recover it from a generational standpoint. 

Lenin said, and I paraphrase "give me a child for 8 years and I'll make him a socialist for life". Welcome to AmerIka. 
Unfortunately we don't have that kind of time  because he world is too small.

I, personally, believe that bloodshed is inevitable although unfortunate.


----------



## arKangel (Dec 12, 2012)

R.C. Christian said:


> arKangel said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...



And I personally disagree.
Their only successful weapon (at least in this country) has been propaganda.
Lets face it,  they want bloodshed.  Their only joy is hate, their goal is death..

I also disagree that they are "smart".  They are not.  What they are is wealthy and evil. 
Two things that are not hard to beat.  That is if one thinks past the emotional, or conditioned response.
They think in decades? so what? we think in millennium!

Fighting fire with fire is bull-hooey, you really want to beat a fire? Don't feed the fire!
Starve the pinko.  
They are parasites, so when they want blood? give them salt!

Let's douse their propaganda with reason.

For example, I have convinced everyone I've spoken with personally to cancel their cable.  It was surprisingly easy.
And guess what?

Yep, happy families.


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## Ravi (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> We Need To Stop Glorifying Single Mothers | Right Wing News
> 
> "Because most of us know single mothers, know how hard theyre working, and wish them well, we do what we can to support them and build them up. Thats very understandable and it undoubtedly does some good. However, because were constantly talking about how wonderful single mothers are, were also making the option look a lot less scary than it should be to young girls  and thats a very bad thing for them and for society."
> 
> I figured someone out there would have said it better than me



Amy, are you a concern troll? Serious question.

People normally don't become single mothers by choice and single motherhood is not a danger to society.


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## Valerie (Dec 12, 2012)

Ravi said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > We Need To Stop Glorifying Single Mothers | Right Wing News
> ...





  It's all the pinko commies fault and bloodshed is inevitable!!!


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## Connery (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I'd settle for society being more honest about the abject poverty single mothers live in, that their children are more likely to abuse drugs/alcohol, to be sexually active teenagers and to be convicted of a crime.



I have yet to see where anyone is denying that. In fact that is the cause of much concern and controversy. Rather than castigate these parents for being single, considering this as a societal problem is paramount. We are all effected by this situation looking down the nose at a family with one parent is ignoring the problem altogether.



"63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census)  5 times the average.

    90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes  32 times the average.

    85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes  20 times the average.  (Center for Disease Control)

    80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes 14 times the average.  (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

    71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes  9 times the average.  (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education - Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

    Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.

    Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.

    Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get As in school.

    Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.

    75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes  10 times the average.
Father Factor in Child Abuse  Compared to living with both parents, living in a single-parent home doubles the risk that a child will suffer physical, emotional, or educational neglect. The overall rate of child abuse and neglect in single-parent households is 27.3 children per 1,000, whereas the rate of overall maltreatment in two-parent households is 15.5 per 1,000.

Daughters of single parents without a Father involved are 53% more likely to marry as teenagers, 711% more likely to have children as teenagers, 164% more likely to have a pre-marital birth and 92% more likely to get divorced themselves.

Adolescent girls raised in a 2 parent home with involved Fathers are significantly less likely to be sexually active than girls raised without involved Fathers.


43% of US children live without their father [US Department of Census]

    90% of homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]

    80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes. [Criminal Justice & Behaviour, Vol 14, pp. 403-26, 1978]

    71% of pregnant teenagers lack a father. [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services press release, Friday, March 26, 1999]

    63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]

    85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes. [Center for Disease Control]

    90% of adolescent repeat arsonists live with only their mother. [Wray Herbert, Dousing the Kindlers, Psychology Today, January, 1985, p. 28]

    71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. [National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools]

    75% of adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes. [Rainbows f for all Gods Children]

    70% of juveniles in state operated institutions have no father. [US Department of Justice, Special Report, Sept. 1988]

    85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. [Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections, 1992]

    Fatherless boys and girls are: twice as likely to drop out of high school; twice as likely to end up in jail; four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems. [US D.H.H.S. news release, March 26, 1999]"

Statistics « The Fatherless Generation


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## jknowgood (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm a single father, people try to make me out to be special, i'm not. I did make a poor choice for a partner, so i'm just doing what is right, nothing special.


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## Connery (Dec 12, 2012)

jknowgood said:


> I'm a single father, people try to make me out to be special, i'm not. I did make a poor choice for a partner, so i'm just doing what is right, nothing special.



There is nothing wrong with a nice compliment, however, if it is exultation I agree.


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## wavingrl (Dec 12, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> What I have noticed is the gloryifing of unwed mothers.
> Not a good thing.
> We had lots less of them when they were an embaressment.



Single mothers, at times I infer this  term implies 'unwed mothers'?


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## Katzndogz (Dec 12, 2012)

It starts with YOU.   It's your choice.  Stop glorifying them, patronizing them, helping them, in your own personal life.  If millions of people did that, just a simple and small act of rebellion, it would not go unnoticed.


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## Valerie (Dec 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> It starts with YOU.   It's your choice. * Stop* glorifying them, patronizing them, *helping them, in your own personal life. *
> 
> 
> 
> If millions of people did that, just a simple and small act of rebellion, it would not go unnoticed.







^


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## Katzndogz (Dec 12, 2012)

As long as individuals make it easy and pleasant for irresponsible single mothers to be irresponsible, they have no complaint.  They are complicit.


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## Valerie (Dec 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> As long as individuals make it easy and pleasant for irresponsible single mothers to be irresponsible, they have no complaint.  They are complicit.






Hell, single mothers shouldn't even be allowed on Facebook, for gawd sake!


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## Katzndogz (Dec 12, 2012)

Valerie said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > As long as individuals make it easy and pleasant for irresponsible single mothers to be irresponsible, they have no complaint.  They are complicit.
> ...



It depends, did you friend a single mother on Facebook?   Every time someone helps an irresponsible woman, they are helping her to be irresponsible. 

We had a way of dealing with the problem of thoughtless and feckless girls.  It was called ostracism and it worked.


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## AmyNation (Dec 12, 2012)

Ravi said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > We Need To Stop Glorifying Single Mothers | Right Wing News
> ...



Single motherhood is often a choice. They chose the men, they chose to have sex, often without using protection, and they choose to give birth. No one woke up one day with a baby on their doorstep.

As to "not a danger to society" that depends on how you define it. As has already been pointed out, the children of single mothers have higher risks of drug use, criminal behavior , poverty and are more likely to be single mothers themselves(in the case of girls). Those aren't good for society.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Single mothers are fun.


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## Ravi (Dec 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> It starts with YOU.   It's your choice.  Stop glorifying them, patronizing them, helping them, in your own personal life.  If millions of people did that, just a simple and small act of rebellion, it would not go unnoticed.



Seig Heil!


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## Katzndogz (Dec 12, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...



Of course they are.   They have already indicated a willingness to fuck around and won't even blame the man for the disease or pregnancy!  How could they not be fun.   No matter what the result, it can be shuffled off to "society".


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## Aristotle (Dec 12, 2012)

I know what I've stated was anecdotal evidence, but from as a child to working in the hospital I have seen so much irresponsible people coming and going. Not only do young girls here in California treat the emergency room as a doctor's office, along with young girls using their child as leverage to either keep a man or use it against him all at my hospital. If I could, I could turn my hospital into a real life soap opera.


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

As a single mom I don't feel proud that I am a single mom. I made a bad choice but we all make bad choices. It isn't something that shouldn't be encouraged, but the new war on single moms by some on the right is very sad. 
The stereotypes and judgements I have read in this thread are laughable and very sad.


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.



If they don't like you Luissa fuck them. You are a good person.


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## AmyNation (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.



Your sensitive to this issue. I'm sorry that you feel judged. Perhaps you shouldn't have clicked the thread if you can't discuss the topic because your too close to the subject matter.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.




Who is judging you? I don't even know you. 


My posts are discussing a topic in a general sense as we often do on these boards and based on people I have known IRL, my life, I have discussed separately based on first hand knowledge.


http://www.usmessageboard.com/6480849-post165.html


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.
> ...



I see my point flew over your head. 
You and other have made quite a few judgements about women you don't know. I have read that single moms are whores, use their children to stick it to men, take advAntage of the system, and are horrible at choosing life partners. 
Then there are the ones who feel that society should look down on them. So like I said, you guys are judging people you do not know. People become single moms due to many reasons. Instead of judging someone and making them feel bad for their lot in life, try to show some compassion. That might go farther than judgment. Plus it is more Christian like.


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## Ravi (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.
> ...


And you could adjust your facebook feed if reading about single mothers upsets you.


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.
> ...



You guys are judging single moms in general. You guys have been since the OP.


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

Ravi said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Exactly!! Many people I know on Facebook annoy me, I just hide them in my newsfeed. 
I will also say I have never posted how I am so awesome because I am single mom. 
Like most moms I spend most of my time wondering if I am doing this right.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 12, 2012)

If someone on your Facebook annoys you why not just delete them?


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> If someone on your Facebook annoys you why not just delete them?



Some are people I have known forever. This way you don't offend anyone.


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## Valerie (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.





Yes, and I'll be sure to shun my own sister who divorced her bully of a husband because the bastard cheated on her after she bore his children.  How dare she, and the millions and MILLIONS of women just like her, try to empower themselves by projecting positivity for single mothers on the interwebs!  


I'd be more ashamed to be the OP of this thread...


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

How about we judge the moms who raised the men who can't take care of their kids? My kids father was raised in a two parent household. Should I pass judgement on his mom? 
Or should I just judge the person for what they do, and not apply stereotypes or lump them into a group?


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## Ravi (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> How about we judge the moms who raised the men who can't take care of their kids? My kids father was raised in a two parent household. Should I pass judgement on his mom?
> Or should I just judge the person for what they do, and not apply stereotypes or lump them into a group?



I hate it when you're sensible.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Luissa, since you don't know me how are you certain you have never discussed a topic that applies to my life? Have you possibly "offended me"? lol

We all discuss many topics on this board. I do not post thinking about "OMG, who might this discussion offend who posts here!"

I have discussed two types of single Moms I know IRL. I know that not all Moms, single or married are all bad or all good. Life is more complex than that of course. I certainly would never post to offend any member personally here about their life. However I would hope that we are free to discuss reality and the reality is that there are single Moms as I have discussed. I prefer not to bring the real lives of USMB posters into controversial discussions because what would be the point? You are a stranger. Why would I want to diss or judge you and your life of which I know nothing.


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## Connery (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> How about we judge the moms who raised the men who can't take care of their kids? My kids father was raised in a two parent household. Should I pass judgement on his mom?
> Or should I just judge the person for what they do, and not apply stereotypes or lump them into a group?




The inherent issues within this thread are endless. To simplify that which can go back generations is ridiculous.  There are many questions about the family of origin, customs of the area in which both mother and absentee father were born, poor mental hygiene, education, religion etc etc etc. It can  takes years to find out, some find out quickly then get castigated in this thread. Bottom line is rarely do we know the individual we are sleeping with until it is too late to reverse an event like the birth of a child.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> How about we judge the moms who raised the men who can't take care of their kids? My kids father was raised in a two parent household. Should I pass judgement on his mom?
> Or should I just judge the person for what they do, and not apply stereotypes or lump them into a group?



Do you ever make judgments about people or types of people? Do you have an opinion about bad parenting?


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## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

Valerie said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > And I get enough judgment from my Grandma, I don't need a person whom I don't know judging me. You all should be so proud of yourselves.
> ...



How horrible of your sister. 
I could judge my own mom. She was a single mom of two boys before she married my dad because her ex cheated in her. 
Of course the two boys she raised turned out to be great husbands and fathers. And I will say this, my mom is a super mom.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

Connery said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > How about we judge the moms who raised the men who can't take care of their kids? My kids father was raised in a two parent household. Should I pass judgement on his mom?
> ...





> Bottom line is rarely do we know the individual we are sleeping with until it is too late to reverse an event like the birth of a child.



Case by case but I don't think it is that rare. I think the being in love, the passion and the hormones cause lack of brain power and common sense for people. That is fine as long as there is enough time before baby making to make sure the lover is worthy of being a father or mother. Even years don't promise anything but it beats getting into baby making before you really know who will be your child's other parent.


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## AmyNation (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...


Most people go out of their way to make single moms feel good. Society as a whole makes a lot of concessions for single mothers in an attempt to make up for the times when it used to be a shameful thing.

I am not judging you. 

Saying that single mothers should be a cautionary tale, that it's bad for children and that we shouldnt glamorize it but show compassion to those children born in to a difficult circumstance is not judgement.


----------



## Luissa (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...



You see what you want to see.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 12, 2012)

Luissa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > If someone on your Facebook annoys you why not just delete them?
> ...



I almost started a riot talking shit about my ex on Facebook, I learned to never under estimate Facebook.


----------



## Connery (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > AmyNation said:
> ...




We should not stigmatize either. Life happens, those that have the wherewithal stay in it for the long haul, _no matter what_. Single parenthood has been around as long as humans have inhabited the earth. As a society we pat our selves on the back because we have institutions that seemingly have answers for various lifestyles. Someone strays from that "formula" and they are social outcasts. What a bunch of tripe.


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## AmyNation (Dec 12, 2012)

I believe I said earlier in the thread, there has to be a middle ground between shame and superhero status.


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## Connery (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I believe I said earlier in the thread, there has to be a middle ground between shame and superhero status.



Then you waffled back into your former stance  of chiding and castigating.


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## AmyNation (Dec 12, 2012)

That's your opinion.


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## Connery (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> That's your opinion.



Nope that is the plain meaning of the words you are using.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

I have seen what the bad choices made by some selfish parents has caused innocent children and I will not apologize for knowing this personally IRL and believing that not all single parents deserve a trophy. If you are on this thread and you have never met the type of parents I am discussing then you are lucky. That is all this thread was about to me. I don't applaud bad behavior especially where children are concerned.


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## AmyNation (Dec 12, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> I have seen what the bad choices made by some selfish parents has caused innocent children and I will not apologize for knowing this personally IRL and believing that not all single parents deserve a trophy. If you are on this thread and you have never met the type of parents I am discussing then you are lucky. That is all this thread was about to me. I don't applaud bad behavior especially where children are concerned.



Exactly.

Do some single mothers deserve a trophy? Absolutely. However simply being a single mother isn't an achievement and shouldn't be praised.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen what the bad choices made by some selfish parents has caused innocent children and I will not apologize for knowing this personally IRL and believing that not all single parents deserve a trophy. If you are on this thread and you have never met the type of parents I am discussing then you are lucky. That is all this thread was about to me. I don't applaud bad behavior especially where children are concerned.
> ...


 
And I believe that is all you were stating from the start.

When I discuss a topic I would hope intelligent people would realize that we know that there is no "ALL" in any group we may discuss. I try to avoid ever saying:

All liberals
All conservatives
All men
All women
All single mothers
All Jews
All Christians

...and on and on.

But I will be damned if I am going to pussyfoot around reality. The reality is there are people in society who think we should never have strong opinions or dare speak out against bad behavior lest we "offend" someone who may be reading or hearing our words.

Not every single parent is a good parent. In fact some have hurt their children in many ways. I do want to add, that wedded parents have also failed miserably sometimes but the topic was not about parenting in general. It was about women(and men) knowingly choosing to make babies with men(and women) that one should probably not even be making dinner with never mind making babies.

If posting potentially offensive (to some) viewpoints here is frowned upon then it might mean it is time to shut down USMB.  Seriously.


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## Katzndogz (Dec 12, 2012)

That's the issue.  No one should judge anyone else.  Just accept what ever rolls down.  That's nonsense.  Of course we should make judgments on what kinds of people we will allow into our lives.  We don't do it enough.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> That's the issue. No one should judge anyone else. Just accept what ever rolls down. That's nonsense. Of course we should make judgments on what kinds of people we will allow into our lives. We don't do it enough.



**********Breaking News**********​ 
Message boards are full of opinions and opposing viewpoints, some judgmental and some even offensive to others.  If your skin is thin or you cry easily when the harsh reality of the big bad world is presented or if you assume every thread is speaking directly to you personally then perhaps message boards are not a healthy place for you.


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## Connery (Dec 12, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen what the bad choices made by some selfish parents has caused innocent children and I will not apologize for knowing this personally IRL and believing that not all single parents deserve a trophy. If you are on this thread and you have never met the type of parents I am discussing then you are lucky. That is all this thread was about to me. I don't applaud bad behavior especially where children are concerned.
> ...



Whether one person's efforts are noteworthy or not is fact sensitive and should be weighed individually.  A trophy in any reality does not address any issues that have arisen in this thread, but, speaks to a smug, self satisfied segment of the population who do not realize they may find themselves in those shoes one day. An appreciation for the predicament people find themselves in is a smart move. The issues here are very ordinary ones that effect all of us on some level whether directly on a societal level or more remotely through taxation and the like.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

Connery said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...


 
Watching children pay for the sins of their parents brings out the passion in some of us. I don't believe that is a smugness as much as it is a pissed off attitude at people who choose knowingly to saddle up with partners who often times others have warned them to run from asap.

Seeing children abused by boyfriends and assorted live ins that some single dating Moms drag through the lives of their children 
is worthy of condemnation.

Does anyone deny that what I describes exists?


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## arKangel (Dec 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> It starts with YOU.   It's your choice.  Stop glorifying them, patronizing them, helping them, in your own personal life.  If millions of people did that, just a simple and small act of rebellion, it would not go unnoticed.



I doubt many are glorifying single mothers in their personal lives.  The only ones doing the glorifying are the pinko types.  Unfortunately, the family-haters are wealthy so the media and education systems are saturated with their propaganda.  Yet still, these are easy things to tune out if one takes an objective approach.

I like your train of thought, rebellion on an individual level is an excellent idea, though not the proposed actions.

There is nothing wrong with helping people, even if the darn fools got themselves into the predicament they are in.  People do have the ability to learn from their mistakes.


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## Arthur (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't know about "glorifying" single mothers.  Many of the ones I know are worthy of respect.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

Arthur said:


> I don't know about "glorifying" single mothers. Many of the ones I know are worthy of respect.


 
Good to know Arthur. I wish all were. Some I know are not.


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## jillian (Dec 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> That's the issue.  No one should judge anyone else.  Just accept what ever rolls down.  That's nonsense.  Of course we should make judgments on what kinds of people we will allow into our lives.  We don't do it enough.



oh.. you can make judgments of sorts... 

but they should be intelligent and well-reasoned judgments...

and, frankly, if something has no effect on you, its really not your business.


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## Dreamy (Dec 12, 2012)

jillian said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > That's the issue. No one should judge anyone else. Just accept what ever rolls down. That's nonsense. Of course we should make judgments on what kinds of people we will allow into our lives. We don't do it enough.
> ...


 
Woah, we can only discuss things or have opinions on this board about things that affect us directly? Really Jillian? Who has the power to determine what affects each of our personal lives? How much does anyone here know about anyone else IRL? 

This board is filled with people posting about all kinds of things and some are pretty intrusive in nature into the actual poster's personal lives and you say the above with a straight face?



> and, frankly, if something has no effect on you, its really not your business


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## Aristotle (Dec 13, 2012)

First off Luissa I think you're being overly sensitive on this topic. If you scroll back myself and Dreamy were basically discussing the fine line between champion single motherhood and irresponsible mothers. Thus is why we used the word "some" which I also stated that in acknowledging men and women in their struggles and triumphs in single parenthood there needs to be that fine distinction to greatly separate those women who constantly make bad decisions. As mentioned before, most of us discussing this topic have submitted personal accounts, but I think the personal accounts I've submitted focused on the urban community mothers who dwell in the slums with no realistic outlook on life and who get with guys with no future.

Most recently, and without violating HIPAA I will say that my hospital recently received a GSW (Gunshot wound) at our emergency department. I was paged to come and standby to counsel any incoming family members. When the guy came in a woman who rode in the ambulance later identified as the mother of the victim's child. Soon after another woman came also a mother of the victim's child. The man who was shot is a known gang member but of course many of our visitors come from those communities and unfortunately bring those elements to our hospital. You see whenever you deal with the public as I, you encounter the whole gamit of personalities. Due to the area my hospital is based in we get incoming victims from Compton, Watts, South Central, South Gate and other surrounding cities where crime is rampant. So yes for over a decade I have seen single mothers come and go. I have seen young single hispanic young girls with no real family support except extended families champion the mother in the fact that she has a baby but if one evaluates the mother, one finds she has no real income, she lives at home, the childs father is in and out of jail. The mother herself has.no education and now as she brings in a life she.must depend on society to keep her afloat.

So my point in all this is no, women who live in these lifestyles ought to not be celebrated with women who struggled to make ends meet and made it work. In addition I firmly believe its important that a child has an active father in his or her life. I think women like the ones I deal with daily who actively seek out dangerous irresponsible for men are asking to be plunge in the darkness of their own despair of failure because when you're 25, and 28 (like the two baby mommas that came to visit the gunahot victim) and you seek out dangerous men because they seem cool and rebellious all the while you are harming your children because there isn't a second responsible parent there, you dont deserve to be acknowledged as a triumphant single mother.


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## Arthur (Dec 13, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Arthur said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know about "glorifying" single mothers. Many of the ones I know are worthy of respect.
> ...



Some single parents are overwhelmed and they aren't praise worthy.  They need to ask for more help and they don't.

I've got a single mom who is telling her five year old it's ok if she pees on her clothes in class because the school will give her new clothes.  This mom is several generations culture of poverty, and she has low intelligence.  The five year old is being taught to scam.

The kid will pick up and take home anything that isn't nailed down.


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## Katzndogz (Dec 13, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> First off Luissa I think you're being overly sensitive on this topic. If you scroll back myself and Dreamy were basically discussing the fine line between champion single motherhood and irresponsible mothers. Thus is why we used the word "some" which I also stated that in acknowledging men and women in their struggles and triumphs in single parenthood there needs to be that fine distinction to greatly separate those women who constantly make bad decisions. As mentioned before, most of us discussing this topic have submitted personal accounts, but I think the personal accounts I've submitted focused on the urban community mothers who dwell in the slums with no realistic outlook on life and who get with guys with no future.
> 
> Most recently, and without violating HIPAA I will say that my hospital recently received a GSW (Gunshot wound) at our emergency department. I was paged to come and standby to counsel any incoming family members. When the guy came in a woman who rode in the ambulance later identified as the mother of the victim's child. Soon after another woman came also a mother of the victim's child. The man who was shot is a known gang member but of course many of our visitors come from those communities and unfortunately bring those elements to our hospital. You see whenever you deal with the public as I, you encounter the whole gamit of personalities. Due to the area my hospital is based in we get incoming victims from Compton, Watts, South Central, South Gate and other surrounding cities where crime is rampant. So yes for over a decade I have seen single mothers come and go. I have seen young single hispanic young girls with no real family support except extended families champion the mother in the fact that she has a baby but if one evaluates the mother, one finds she has no real income, she lives at home, the childs father is in and out of jail. The mother herself has.no education and now as she brings in a life she.must depend on society to keep her afloat.
> 
> So my point in all this is no, women who live in these lifestyles ought to not be celebrated with women who struggled to make ends meet and made it work. In addition I firmly believe its important that a child has an active father in his or her life. I think women like the ones I deal with daily who actively seek out dangerous irresponsible for men are asking to be plunge in the darkness of their own despair of failure because when you're 25, and 28 (like the two baby mommas that came to visit the gunahot victim) and you seek out dangerous men because they seem cool and rebellious all the while you are harming your children because there isn't a second responsible parent there, you dont deserve to be acknowledged as a triumphant single mother.



It sounds like you are either at Harbor UCLA, or St. Francis in Inglewood.


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## Ravi (Dec 13, 2012)

Arthur said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Arthur said:
> ...



How can she be of low intelligence if she's a con artist? Con artists are known for their intelligence.


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## Katzndogz (Dec 13, 2012)

She's not a con artist and it was never claimed she was.  She's a beggar and like beggars all over the world, they increase their income the more pitiful they are.   In India beggars break their children's bones and let them heal as twisted limbs.  It makes the children more pathetic.   Now that indicates SOME level of intelligence, but not much.


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## Dreamy (Dec 13, 2012)

Arthur said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Arthur said:
> ...



I could give many examples of single mothers and fathers failing badly over and over and sometime baby after baby. Most have been offered help and assistance from government and family. Some have failed to learn from their own hard lessons. Normally I would simply shrug but when innocent children are involved I do not.

Ex. Mom-age 18 makes oops baby with 18 year old Dad
Tries to play house but both can't stand each other just months after little daughter is born. Money woes are the driving force. Teenage angst is also in play. They split.

4 years later same Mom gets pregnant again with new Dad. She is working at some dead end low paying job and he is unemployed dealing drugs at low levels. She lives with her own Mom and gives birth to new baby boy. Woo Hoo.

Same Mom gets out of control at low level job and gets fired. Same Dad is still unemployed. 

Same Mom gets preggos again within one year by 2nd Dad who is now doing no drug dealing or working. 

Welfare is now their source of income and they move into crappy apartment in bad side of town. He moves in. Still no jobs. Oldest child starts school.

They get evicted from apartment and now move into his mother's basement. Oldest child must change schools.

Mom and Dad sit home and play video games and eat too much. Post lots of pics on FB of their growing family. How proud she is of her ability to screw men and birth babies. Said Mother had several meltdowns on FB when anyone dares to comment in a negative manner to her IRL apparently. C*nt is her favorite word.  Dammit she wants her single Mommy trophy!! How dare you think she is a loser. How dare anyone judge her!!

How about this novel idea. Let's praise the parents who are truly good parents and stop pretending everyone deserves a freaking trophy because they had sex and birthed a child!


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## Aristotle (Dec 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Aristotle said:
> 
> 
> > First off Luissa I think you're being overly sensitive on this topic. If you scroll back myself and Dreamy were basically discussing the fine line between champion single motherhood and irresponsible mothers. Thus is why we used the word "some" which I also stated that in acknowledging men and women in their struggles and triumphs in single parenthood there needs to be that fine distinction to greatly separate those women who constantly make bad decisions. As mentioned before, most of us discussing this topic have submitted personal accounts, but I think the personal accounts I've submitted focused on the urban community mothers who dwell in the slums with no realistic outlook on life and who get with guys with no future.
> ...



Very good guess.....!

Actually St. Francis is in Lynwood not inglewood and yes I work at both hospitals. I work per deim at Harbor UCLA.


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## Arthur (Dec 13, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Arthur said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...


There are low intelligence criminals.

She doesn't need genius IQ to figure out the school will give her kids clothes if she wets them.


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## Arthur (Dec 13, 2012)

Dreamy said:


> Arthur said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamy said:
> ...



Anti-abortion fanatics don't get to complain about crappy parents.  Some people shouldn't have kids and they do.  That's life.


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## syrenn (Dec 13, 2012)

Arthur said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Arthur said:
> ...




sad isnt it? 

At one point in time.... parents would do anything it took to so that their children would live a better life then the ones they have..

Now.... with entitlements, why bother when you can make a living scamming.


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## Arthur (Dec 13, 2012)

Most single parents I know are praise worthy.  A few are not.


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## arKangel (Dec 13, 2012)

Arthur said:


> Anti-abortion fanatics don't get to complain about crappy parents.  Some people shouldn't have kids and they do.  That's life.



The parent who kills their own child isn't "crappy"?


I guess we could chalk that up as another fine example of pinko logic.

Pro-Abortion baby butchering zealots can't kill every "undesirable" child, yep that's life.  
Those horrible poor people will still keep on having babies.


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## Dreamy (Dec 13, 2012)

Arthur said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> > Arthur said:
> ...


 
No one is stopping people from aborting their unborn children. It has been legal for decades. What is your point exactly Arthur? You are blaming crappy parenting on....people who have a right to personally oppose abortion in a free country? Wha??


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## syrenn (Dec 13, 2012)

Arthur said:


> Most single parents I know are praise worthy.  A few are not.




most people i know treat their pets better then some parents treat their children.


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## Arthur (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't know that I'd take it that far.


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## AmyNation (Dec 13, 2012)

No, I agree with her. I know people who treat their pets waaaay better than some people treat their kids.

Parenting isn't all instinctive, a lot of it is learned behavior.


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## Arthur (Dec 13, 2012)

It's just not a statement I'd make.  That's all.  People who aren't good parents often don't care for their pets well either.


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## Dreamy (Dec 13, 2012)

What creates the parenting mindset of people like Casey Anthony? How do you party while your child is missing?

Or this latest case near me:

He, her freaking loser boyfriend, beat the crap out of her toddler and she, the other loser, flees with him to an amusement park while her son lays badly injured in the hospital.

Plaistow couple that were on the run, will appear in Florida court today | New Hampshire NEWS03

No trophy for you bitch.


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