# China's aircraft-carrier



## waltky (Apr 14, 2011)

China's neighbors wary of aircraft carrier...

*China aircraft carrier watched by region*
_April 14, 2011  WASHINGTON - China aircraft carrier: China bought the vessel from Ukraine more than a decade ago, and it is viewed as emblematic of the communist state's ambition to be a military power that can challenge America's decades-long supremacy in the west Pacific._


> China's first aircraft carrier could begin sea trials as early as this summer and its deployment would significantly change the perception of the balance of power in the region, the chief of U.S. forces in the Pacific said Tuesday.  China bought the vessel from Ukraine more than a decade ago, and it is viewed as emblematic of the communist state's ambition to be a military power that can challenge America's decades-long supremacy in the west Pacific. China's state news agency this month carried photos of the carrier in what it said was the final stages of reconstruction.
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> "Based on the feedback from our partners and allies in the Pacific, I think the change in perception by the region will be significant," Adm. Robert Willard told the Senate Armed Services Committee. Willard also noted the "remarkable growth" of China's military.  But he viewed that impact as largely symbolic, as there would be a long period of training, development and exercises before the carrier becomes operational.  The U.S. Pacific Command led by Willard has five aircraft carrier strike groups, which it has used to project American power across a region key to global trade. However, China's military build-up, which includes the rapid development of ballistic missiles and cyber warfare capabilities, has spooked its neighbors and could potentially crimp the U.S. forces' freedom to operate.
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## waltky (May 6, 2011)

Next thing ya know dey'll be havin' stealth helicopters...

*ANALYSIS: Chinas new aircraft carrier changes strategic map*
_Mon, May 02, 2011 - RISING THREAT:While it may be years before Chinas aircraft carrier provides any real threat, it joins the J-15 fighter jet in ratcheting up the risks for US forces in the region_


> Reports last month that Chinas first aircraft carrier could embark on its maiden voyage sometime this year, added to speculation that the Chinese navys first -carrier-based aircraft could be operational by 2015, point to the high likelihood that Taiwans security dilemma is about to become even more complex. That said, Taipei and the region need not panic just yet, analysts say.  After nearly nine years of refurbishing work at a port in Dalian, Chinese military enthusiasts and media say that the Peoples Liberation Army Navys (PLAN) first aircraft carrier  acquired from Ukraine in 1998  could set sail as early as this summer.
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> Although the Varyag, which reports claim will be renamed Shi Lang, after a Qing Dynasty admiral, has been officially advertised as a training platform, analysts say that it could also serve combat purposes.  The Varyag still lacks some of its more high-tech features, such as phased array radars and surface-to-air missiles, and those features are unlikely to be fully installed when the carrier sets out on its first journey.  Questions also remain about the engine that will be used to propel it, as the hull acquired in 1998 reportedly did not come with an engine or, if it did, it had been deliberately damaged as the result of foreign political pressure on Kiev.
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## waltky (Jun 8, 2011)

The 300m (990ft) carrier, under construction in Dalian, is thought to be nearly finished...

*China aircraft carrier confirmed by general*
_8 June 2011 - The head of China's General Staff of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) has confirmed that China's first aircraft carrier is under construction._


> Gen Chen Bingde refused to say when the carrier - a remodelled Soviet-era vessel, the Varyag - would be ready.  A member of his staff said the carrier would pose no threat to other nations.  The 300m (990ft) carrier, which is being built in the north-east port of Dalian, has been one of China's worst-kept secrets, analysts say.  Gen Chen made his comments to the Chinese-language Hong Kong Commercial Daily newspaper.
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> Symbol of power
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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm not sweating aircraft carriers.... It's the missile platforms of the subs you gotta worry about.


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## Trajan (Jun 8, 2011)

ACC ops takes time to learn and perfect. This is a long term issue.
 If they have truly  dumped the slot machines replaced the engines and are going to take this scow to sea, then they have at least made a commitment to a  true blue water navy with the ability to project. 

That can be worrisome but its decades away, if that thing sails in 2015, it will take them a few years to understand shipboard flight ops characteristics, coordination of logistics etc etc ... whats right whats wrong and then they will commit to design their own Aircraft Carrier  for their aircraft....and at the end of the day, theres always the great unknown, having no experience in naval ops of this magnitude, there will be things they don't know, _they don't know_....


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## martybegan (Jun 8, 2011)

Trajan said:


> ACC ops takes time to learn and perfect. This is a long term issue.
> If they have truly  dumped the slot machines replaced the engines and are going to take this scow to sea, then they have at least made a commitment to a  true blue water navy with the ability to project.
> 
> That can be worrisome but its decades away, if that thing sails in 2015, it will take them a few years to understand shipboard flight ops characteristics, coordination of logistics etc etc ... whats right whats wrong and then they will commit to design their own Aircraft Carrier  for their aircraft....and at the end of the day, theres always the great unknown, having no experience in naval ops of this magnitude, there will be things they don't know, _they don't know_....



They had better practice ASW as well, or all the carrier really becomes is "target number 1"


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## waltky (Jun 21, 2011)

Mebbe it'll spring a leak...

*China readies aircraft carrier for sea test*
_Wed, Jun 22, 2011 - WATERY TENSIONS:A Hong Kong newspaper said the PLA hopes the sea trials starting on July 1 will show the strength of the Chinese maritime forces to deter other nations_


> Chinas first aircraft carrier  a remodelled Soviet-era vessel  will go on sea trials next week, a report said yesterday, amid escalating tensions in the South China Sea.  Chinas top military official reportedly confirmed earlier this month that Beijing is building a huge aircraft carrier, the first acknowledgement of the ships existence.  The Hong Kong Commercial Daily, which broke the story of the vessels confirmation, quoted unnamed military sources saying the carrier will go on sea trials on July 1, but will not be officially launched until October next year.
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> The sources said the test has been expedited in view of rising tensions in the South China Sea over the Spratly Islands in recent weeks.  Chinas Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) hopes it will show the strength of the Chinese maritime forces to deter other nations which are eyeing the South China Sea in order to calm tensions, the sources said.  They added that the sea trial date was also picked to celebrate the 90th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party, but said that factors such as weather could affect the planned test run.  The PLA did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
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## Trajan (Jun 21, 2011)

this is why in the end china has opted for this route-

India-
INS Vishal-  Conventional-powered CATOBAR carrier,65,000 tonnes, laid down- Mid 2011,	sea trials-	2015 commissioning-2017. 	

its not a STOVL 'harrier carrier'AC, its the real deal. 

They have one stovl AC,  and are commissioning  another this year....


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## waltky (Jul 17, 2011)

Uncle Ferd says dey gonna neutralize all our carriers an' den dey gonna come over here an foreclose onna White House...

*Official confirms carrier killer is being developed*
_Thu, Jul 14, 2011 - GAME CHANGER: Reports claim the Dong Feng 21D anti-ship missile has a range of almost 3,000km, nearly twice as long as previously assessed by the US military_


> Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) Chief of General Staff Chen Bingde confirmed earlier this week that China was developing the Dong Feng 21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), the first Chinese official to publicly state that the missile is in development.  His comments came as the English-language China Daily reported that the DF-21D had a range of 2,700km, well beyond assessments by the Office of Naval Intelligence last year, which put it at about 1,500km.  The missile, which is capable of hitting moving targets at sea and is seen as a potential threat to aircraft carrier battle groups, would represent a powerful deterrent to the US Navy in the Pacific.
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> However, Chen said the DF-21D, which can be fired from mobile land-based launchers, was still in the research, development and testing stage, adding that such high-tech devices were difficult to bring to maturity.  The missile is still undergoing experimental testing and it will be used as a defensive weapon when it is successfully developed, not an offensive one, Chen told reporters.  Its development requires funding inputs, advanced technology and high-quality talented personnel ... these are all fundamental factors constraining its development, Xinhua news agency quoted Chen as saying, in comments that were ostensibly intended for a domestic audience.
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## waltky (Aug 9, 2011)

Uncle Ferd says dey gonna load dat 200 million man army up on it an' come over here an' repossess the White House...

*China's First Carrier Begins Sea Trial*
_August 09, 2011 - China's first aircraft carrier has left the shipyard for a long-awaited sea trial._


> The refitted old Soviet vessel left the northeastern port of Dalian early Wednesday.   Officials said the trial was on schedule and that afterwards the ship will dock for further work.
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> Concerns were raised about China's military build-up when it purchased the stripped-down hull of the vessel from Ukraine in 1998.  China's defense ministry said last month that the carrier will be used for training and research.
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## Baruch Menachem (Aug 9, 2011)

A second hand Russian ship with a hull already 10 years out of date and no knowledge of what most of the questions are.  They are going to need lots of lessons.  I dont' know who they are going to use for teachers.   The French Aircraft carriers are a bad joke, the Indians hate their guts and the concept of a Chinese aircraft carrier is something they really wouldn't like.   Ditto for the Russians.   I think the only folks they could get lessons from would be the Brazilians.  And I don't think they would be all that hot to piss us off that way.
This is going to be a long painful learning experience.
Then there is the issue that the Chinese just plan don't trust their air force.   In order to make a useful carrier force you have to train the pilots hard in really difficult landings.   Air forces in order to be effective need independent thinkers.    A dictatorship like China fears independent thinkers.  This was the same reason the XUSSR had such a small navy, and most of its submarine assets stayed close to home.


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## waltky (Aug 11, 2011)

Uncle Ferd says, "Yea?  Well, dat's dem tellin' it...

*China's future aircraft carrier no source of tension*
_2011-08-11 -- Chinese and American military experts have said that China's future aircraft carrier is not a source of tension for the United States and other nations in the Asia-Pacific region._


> About two weeks after China's Ministry of National Defense confirmed its program to refurbish an ex-Soviet aircraft carrier, the still unfinished vessel commenced its maiden sea trial on Wednesday morning from Dalian of northeast Liaoning Province where the carrier was docked.  While some neighboring countries have expressed concern over the growth of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, such as Japan's most recent defense white paper, Peter Singer, a senior fellow in foreign policy at the Washington-based Brookings Institution, told Xinhua that he didn't believe the Chinese carrier was a source that could worsen the current situation in the Asia-Pacific region.
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> "One should not be surprised that China, whose military and economic power has grown immensely over the last decades, would want to join the 'carrier club' along with states like the US, UK, Brazil, India, France," Singer said in an email.  It's an understandable ambition from a strategic and national prestige standpoint for China to develop aircraft carrier, he said.  Currently, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, Spain, Italy, India, Brazil and Thailand, operate a total of 21 active-service aircraft carriers.  Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force currently has two 18,000-metric ton Hyuga-class helicopter carriers, although the warships are classified by Japan as "helicopter destroyers."
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## HenryBHough (Aug 11, 2011)

Remember, if America wants new fighters in a very few years it'll have to buy them from China.  After all, Our Kenyan President is doing his all to drive Boeing out of The U.S. and they gotta go somewhere or go out of business.  No, their CEO is NOT John Galt.  Maybe next week but not now.


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## waltky (Sep 10, 2011)

Granny says don't lissen to `em - dey tryin' to hornswoggle us...

*China seeking to ease US worries over tense Pacific*
_Sat, Sep 10, 2011 - The US should view Chinas growing role in the Pacific as grounds for cooperation rather than concern, a top Chinese official said yesterday, amid anxiety over Beijings new assertiveness._


> Washington and Chinas neighbors have expressed increasing fears about Beijings claims in the South China Sea, military spending and new high-tech equipment, including an aircraft carrier that underwent a sea trial last month.  However, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Cui Tiankai, speaking on the sidelines of the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) in Auckland, sought to ease the concerns.  We are just part of the Pacific region, thats a geographical fact, nobody can change it  Chinas also part of Asia, thats also quite true, Cui said.  He said Washington and Beijing shared a common interest in helping Pacific island nations cope with issues such as climate change and economic development, so they should work together.  China has become increasingly active in impoverished Pacific island nations in recent years, offering soft loans on easy credit terms and providing aid for projects such as hospitals and roads.
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> However, Washington has viewed Chinas involvement with suspicion and responded by increasing its own diplomatic presence in the region.  Asked if China wanted to cooperate more with the US in the Pacific, Cui said: I would certainly hope so.  Of course, the United States is on the other side of the Pacific, so I dont think the Pacific Ocean is something that should separate us, China and the US, he said. Rather, I would hope that the Pacific Ocean would be kind of a link to bring us together ... I dont know why anyone should have any reservations about Chinas role in the Pacific, were just part of it.
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## akiboy (Sep 10, 2011)

China's aim is to have a blue water naval capability and exert considerable influence over the shipping lanes from the straits of malacca to the pacific. The chinese have nuclear capable submarines carrying DF-21 warheads. They have a monitoring station in the Burmese cocos islands which monitors Indian missile tests in Balasore , Orissa (India). The only other power that can counter the Chinese in the Asia Pacific region is India. They hate our guts and we..basically just hate them for many reasons.


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## ekrem (Sep 10, 2011)

akiboy said:


> The only other power that can counter the Chinese in the Asia Pacific region is India. They hate our guts and we..basically just hate them for many reasons.




*India Measures Itself Against a China That Doesnt Notice*
Whatever the reasons, Indians compare virtually every aspect of their nation with China. Infrastructure (China is acknowledged as being many kilometers ahead). The armed forces (China is more powerful). Universities (China has invested more in its institutions). 
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/business/global/india-looks-to-china-as-an-economic-model.html



There is nothing in India worthy fighting for from Chinese point of view.


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## akiboy (Sep 10, 2011)

In India the people have the power to speak up against he government. We don't support regimes in the world accused of genocide. we don't back shady third world governments and oppress Buddhist monks. We don't put our citizens into prison if they speak up against the military or the ruling party. We don't break the Missile Control Treaties and sell missiles to countries (In reference to China's missile sales to Pakistan , Saudi Arabia).
Yes , India has a long way to go when it comes to infrastructure. And please don't talk about education. India produces smarter , better and more english speaking professors than China. Our universities may lack infrastructure but we sure as hell don't lack the talent or brain. India is booming. if you've followed the indian economy you'd notice the trend. And our military may not be as large as the PLA but we've got better pilots (The USAF themselves have acknowledged) , a strong army and some of the best sailors in Asia. 
The way i see it it is in the interest of the world that India and not China become the Asian regional power. i rest my case.


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## waltky (Sep 11, 2011)

Rising China becoming domestic political issue...

*Fear of a rising China is uniting US politicians*
_Mon, Sep 12, 2011  Washington - With next years election cycle heating up, US politicians last week harnessed worries over a rising China to power support for everything from patent law reform to debt reduction  and their own ambitions._


> US President Barack Obama led the pack, warning on Thursday that crumbling US infrastructure threatened Washingtons standing as an economic superpower as he laid out a battle plan for assaulting 9.1 percent unemployment.  And now were going to sit back and watch China build newer airports and faster railroads? Obama said in a -campaign-style speech that was aimed at shoring up his embattled re-election prospects, which have been weighted down by the sluggish US economy.
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> Fighting much the same battle, Republican White House hopeful Mitt Romney on Tuesday made confronting China over its alleged currency manipulation and rampant theft of US intellectual property a cornerstone of his economic plan.  I have no interest in starting a trade war with China, but I cannot accept our current trade surrender, said the former Massachusetts governor, who trails Texas Governor Rick Perry in the fight for the partys presidential nomination.
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## Baruch Menachem (Sep 11, 2011)

China has the same issue that the Xussr had.   they can't trust their big toys outside the control of the party bosses.   Most of the PLA is used for keeping Chinese in line.  They don't have enough trust in their military to allow any kind of independent action.   India can have a powerful air force that has lots of training time and allows independent action among the troops.

In case of  a nuke war between India and China all bets are off.  And the only real result would be  a huge decrease in the world's population.    In a conventional war India would probably take the PLA apart much in the way the US took Iraq apart in Gulf War I.

As for the aircraft carrier, it is probably again mostly going to stick real close to the coast and under severe party supervision.  In order to make it work they need like 100 training hours per pilot per month but that would lead to to much independence which they can't afford.   They will probably be stuck with a huge white elephant and a naval air arm that has a prohibitive level of training casualties.


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## pgm (Sep 12, 2011)

waltky said:


> Rising China becoming domestic political issue...



It's been that way for a while. Politicians also like to use China as a scapegoat for America's problems.


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## waltky (Sep 28, 2011)

China gettin' ready to Pearl Harbor us...

*China looks to be on the warpath*
_Tue, Sep 27, 2011 - In a disturbing parallel, China this year seems to have started down the same warpath that led Japan to attack the US at Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941._


> The emergence of this similarity has not gone unnoticed. A Washington think tank, for instance, has suggested that Chinas Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) has devised a strategy that mimics the Japanese Imperial strategy of 1941-1942.  The Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (CSBA), whose researchers have working ties with the Pentagon, has even speculated on possible Chinese targets  US air bases on Guam in the central Pacific, Kadena on Okinawa and Misawa in northeastern Japan.  Just as Japan sought to knock out the US fleet based at Pearl Harbor, so the PLAs objective would be to deny US forces the ability to generate substantial combat power from its air bases in the Western Pacific.  The think tank says researchers based their findings on extensive PLA writings.  The evident similarities between the China of today and the Japan of yesteryear are striking:&#8231;
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> The highly nationalistic PLA has become increasingly independent of the Chinese Communist Party. Like the Japanese Imperial Army, the PLA has struck off on its own foreign and military policy even as it pledges loyalty to the party in the same way the Japanese Imperial Army pledged loyalty to the emperor.&#8231; The objective of the PLA is to drive US forces and interests out of East Asia, just as the Japanese intended to drive the French, British, Dutch, Portuguese and US colonialists from Asia. (Even though Japan was defeated in 1945, the European and US colonies in Asia became independent.)&#8231; Japan intended to impose its own colonial rule in Asia under the guise of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. China today appears to be reviving the ancient concept of the Middle Kingdom in which the nations surrounding China become vassal states and the rest are outer barbarians.&#8231; The Japanese saw themselves as the rightful rulers of Asia, but tried to persuade other Asians that they came as protectors, not as masters. The Chinese have taken somewhat the same stance, asserting that as a big country they are only seeking to protect Asian nations from outside exploitation.&#8231;
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## Baruch Menachem (Sep 28, 2011)

How?   The US has 8 carrier groups all over the world, plus the pilots who get more training time in a month than the average chinese pilot gets in a year.  The US has a better collection of the types of aircraft that China can fly than China does.  (We collected a nice set of modern aircraft from Iraq and we use them to train US pilots in Red style tactics.)    Plus we have aircraft two generations ahead of what the Chinese have.  We have a huge submarine fleet that can sink their Navy in their harbors.

The Chinese can want all they want.   They can't even project off their own coast.  Let alone in the blue ocean.  

Of course, they have a ton of cash and can probably buy the toys, but they can't do the training or allow the thinking that makes for an effective military beyond a police force.


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## Unkotare (Sep 28, 2011)

but they're working on it...


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## waltky (Oct 1, 2011)

China goin' for the Spratly Islands?...

*Chinese analyst calls for war in South China Sea*
_Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - SEA OF FIRE: Long Tao wrote that Beijing should strike the Philippines and Vietnam, the two noisiest troublemakers, to strike fear into other claimants_


> The Ministry of Foreign Affairs yesterday reaffirmed Taiwans sovereignty over disputed islands in the South China Sea and called on all claimants to peacefully resolve the impasse.  The comments came after an editorial published in the Chinese-language edition of the Chinese Communist Party-run Global Times called on the Beijing government to declare war on Vietnam and the Philippines, two countries that have been proactive in defending their claims over the islets.  The op-ed, titled A good time to take military action in the South China Sea, was penned by Long Tao, a strategic analyst at the non-governmental China Energy Fund Committee and also at Zhejiang Universitys Non-Traditional Security and Peace Development Research Center.
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> Do not worry about small-scale wars; it is the best way to release the potential of war. Play a few small battles and big battles can be avoided, Long wrote, adding that military action should be focused on striking the Philippines and Vietnam, the two noisiest troublemakers, to achieve the effect of killing one chicken to scare the monkeys.  Through military action, he wrote, China could transform the South China Sea into a sea of fire, an act made possible by the fact that of the more than 1,000 oil rigs and four airfields on the Spratly Islands, none belongs to China.  On the risks of military action inviting intervention by the international community, the author took an optimistic note.
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## mawlarky (Oct 2, 2011)

"Currently, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, Spain, Italy, India, Brazil and Thailand, operate a total of 21 active-service aircraft carriers"

The U.K has not got a single aircraft carrier to its name, its last aircraft carrier was scrapped 2 years ago along with all its naval aircraft which were either scrapped or sold to India (harriers).


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## waltky (Nov 29, 2011)

Uncle Ferd says dey gonna park it inna South China Sea...

*Chinese aircraft carrier begins second sea trial*
_FEARS: China has insisted that its first carrier is only for training and research, which underwent further refitting and testing following its first sea trial in August_


> Chinas first aircraft carrier began its second sea trial yesterday after undergoing refurbishment and testing, the government said, amid heightened regional tensions over maritime territorial disputes.  The 300m ship, a refitted former Soviet carrier called the Varyag, underwent five days of trials in August that sparked international concern about Chinas widening naval reach.  Chinas aircraft carrier platform, after successfully completing its first sea trial in August, returned to the shipyard as planned for further refitting and testing, the Chinese defense ministry said in a statement. The work has been carried out and it set sail again on Nov. 29 to carry out relevant scientific and research experiments.
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> The announcement comes against a background of growing tensions over maritime disputes in the Asia-Pacific region.  China has become increasingly assertive in its claims over the East China Sea and South China Sea, most of which it views as its maritime territory, but where several other Asian nations have competing claims.  Last week, Beijing said it would conduct routine naval exercises in the Pacific Ocean, following a major diplomatic campaign by US President Barack Obama to assert the US as a Pacific power.  Beijing only confirmed this year it was revamping the old Soviet ship and has repeatedly insisted that the carrier poses no threat to its neighbors and will be used mainly for training and research purposes.
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## waltky (Dec 6, 2011)

Granny wonderin' what dey gonna do with dat 200 million man army?...

*US seeks 'transparency' in growth of Chinese military power*
_Dec 7, 2011,  WASHINGTON: Amid growing uneasiness in the US over the rapid growth of Chinese military power, Washington on Tuesday asserted that Beijing has the right to develop its military but underlined the need for full "transparency"._


> "The United States views the Asia-Pacific region as a top priority. Our policy is focused on the region and not on any one country in particular," George Little, the Pentagon press secretary told reporters during an off camera news conference.  "With respect to China, they have the right to develop military capabilities and plan just as we do and we repeatedly call for transparency from the Chinese and that's part of the relationship we are continuing to build with the Chinese military. That's important and transparency is the key," Little said.
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> The remarks came after the Chinese President Hu Jintao urged his navy to prepare for military combat and advance naval modernization as part of effort to safeguard world peace.  The navy should "accelerate its transformation and modernization in a sturdy way, and make extended preparations for military combat in order to make greater contributions to safeguard national security and world peace," Hu said in a speech.
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