# When men dont want sex



## Shadow

*When men dont want sex*

Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor and New York Times best-selling author, blogs about sex on Thursdays on The Chart. Read more from him at his website, GoodInBed.

Not tonight, honey. I have a headache. How many times has a guy heard that before? Husbands around the world are all too familiar with being sexually rejected. But now, more than ever, those words, (or some variation), are being expressed by men, to their female partners. While the conventional wisdom has been that its usually the woman in the relationship who inevitably loses interest in sex, the opposite is often true. Low male desire is at all-time high, and is likely to occur for any number of reasons:

When men don


----------



## Anachronism

I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.

Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening. 

She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.

The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.


----------



## percysunshine

*"When men don&#8217;t want sex."*


I can tell this is going to be a short thread.


----------



## dilloduck

Anachronism said:


> I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.
> 
> Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening.
> 
> She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.



Did you check with her neighbor ?


----------



## Anachronism

dilloduck said:


> Did you check with her neighbor ?



About what?


----------



## dilloduck

Anachronism said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you check with her neighbor ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About what?
Click to expand...


To see if she was intersted in the type of relationship you want.


----------



## Samson

is the main reason.




> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.



STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!


----------



## dilloduck

Samson said:


> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
Click to expand...


seriously----dudes haven't figured this one out ?


----------



## Anachronism

dilloduck said:


> To see if she was intersted in the type of relationship you want.



No. Hell, until that night I'd never even been to her place. That was one odd evening.


----------



## dilloduck

Anachronism said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> To see if she was intersted in the type of relationship you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. Hell, until that night I'd never even been to her place. That was one odd evening.
Click to expand...


Well the more you ask, the better chance you got.


----------



## Anachronism

dilloduck said:


> Well the more you ask, the better chance you got.



That's not really my style. I try to be as upfront as possible about what I'm looking for in a relationship and see what HER reaction is to it. Then go from there. I actually find it somewhat surprising to see the responses of women when I tell them that I'm not looking for a quick "hookup" in a relationship. The responses vary, but can be exceptionally interesting to see sometimes.


----------



## dilloduck

Anachronism said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the more you ask, the better chance you got.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not really my style. I try to be as upfront as possible about what I'm looking for in a relationship and see what HER reaction is to it. Then go from there. I actually find it somewhat surprising to see the responses of women when I tell them that I'm not looking for a quick "hookup" in a relationship. The responses vary, but can be exceptionally interesting to see sometimes.
Click to expand...


considering the luck you've had maybe it should be your style.


----------



## Samson

dilloduck said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> seriously----dudes haven't figured this one out ?
Click to expand...


Frankly, I think dudes know....but it's the Women that don't realize that their men enjoy Porn more than the real thing, and the men could care less if they are "depleted" by Porn, or some Sweaty Hag that rides them like a Bowl of Jello.


----------



## Anachronism

dilloduck said:


> considering the luck you've had maybe it should be your style.



No, not really. For some of us it's more important to be in the right type or relationship than it is to be in just any relationship. I'd rather spend my life as a bachelor than to spend it in and out of relationships that aren't what I'm looking for.


----------



## dilloduck

Samson said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seriously----dudes haven't figured this one out ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Frankly, I think dudes know....but it's the Women that don't realize that their men enjoy Porn more than the real thing, and the men could care less if they are "depleted" by Porn, or some Sweaty Hag that rides them like a Bowl of Jello.
Click to expand...


You can't have porn AND the real thing ?


----------



## Samson

dilloduck said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> seriously----dudes haven't figured this one out ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, I think dudes know....but it's the Women that don't realize that their men enjoy Porn more than the real thing, and the men could care less if they are "depleted" by Porn, or some Sweaty Hag that rides them like a Bowl of Jello.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't have porn AND the real thing ?
Click to expand...


From what I gleaned from the article, this is not the case....unless you count faking it the "real thing."


----------



## Douger

If she was uh murkin.........there's a good chance she looked like she belonged at a livestock auction as opposed to a theatre ( and certainly not at a restaurant).


----------



## dilloduck

Samson said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, I think dudes know....but it's the Women that don't realize that their men enjoy Porn more than the real thing, and the men could care less if they are "depleted" by Porn, or some Sweaty Hag that rides them like a Bowl of Jello.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have porn AND the real thing ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I gleaned from the article, this is not the case....unless you count faking it the "real thing."
Click to expand...


I guess the point is that women aren't very used to hearing a man say no and don't take the rejection very lightly.


----------



## HUGGY

Anachronism said:


> I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.
> 
> Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening.
> 
> She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.



*"When men don't want sex"*

When the woman has more hair on her body than I do.     OR she smells like the incense from an old hippy head shop.


----------



## Samson

dilloduck said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have porn AND the real thing ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I gleaned from the article, this is not the case....unless you count faking it the "real thing."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess the point is that women aren't very used to hearing a man say no and don't take the rejection very lightly.
Click to expand...


Well, essentially the article says that either men have a physical problem (which is Rare), or they cannot stand the woman and are jerking off to porn instead of having sex with them, so...._YEAH_, I imagine the news isn't taken lightly.


----------



## Douger

dilloduck said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have porn AND the real thing ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I gleaned from the article, this is not the case....unless you count faking it the "real thing."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess the point is that women aren't very used to hearing a man say no and don't take the rejection very lightly.
Click to expand...

You'd have to be pretty nasty, physically OR mentally, for me to turn down a quick romp.
No. I wouldn't fuck Loosely Lohand or Britney for the latter reason.


----------



## Samson

HUGGY said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.
> 
> Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening.
> 
> She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men don't want sex"*
> 
> When the woman has more hair on her body than I do.     OR she smells like the incense from an old hippy head shop.
Click to expand...


You're the picky one, ain't ya.


----------



## dilloduck

Douger said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I gleaned from the article, this is not the case....unless you count faking it the "real thing."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the point is that women aren't very used to hearing a man say no and don't take the rejection very lightly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'd have to be pretty nasty, physically OR mentally, for me to turn down a quick romp.
> No. I wouldn't fuck Loosely Lohand or Britney for the latter reason.
Click to expand...


I bet if they wanted to romp every 5mins you'd be begging for mercy.


----------



## Samson

Douger said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I gleaned from the article, this is not the case....unless you count faking it the "real thing."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the point is that women aren't very used to hearing a man say no and don't take the rejection very lightly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'd have to be pretty nasty, physically OR mentally, for me to turn down a quick romp.
> No. I wouldn't fuck Loosely Lohand or Britney for the latter reason.
Click to expand...


I don't believe you:






Even if I was jerking off 500X the norm, I could do Lindsey

Brittany would need to wear a wig:


----------



## xsited1

Shadow said:


> *When men dont want sex*
> 
> Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor and New York Times best-selling author, blogs about sex on Thursdays on The Chart. Read more from him at his website, GoodInBed.
> 
> Not tonight, honey. I have a headache. How many times has a guy heard that before? Husbands around the world are all too familiar with being sexually rejected. But now, more than ever, those words, (or some variation), are being expressed by men, to their female partners. While the conventional wisdom has been that its usually the woman in the relationship who inevitably loses interest in sex, the opposite is often true. Low male desire is at all-time high, and is likely to occur for any number of reasons:
> 
> When men don



Men decline sex?  Now that's just silly.


----------



## dilloduck

I've yet to know a man outlast a women especially a mature experienced one but we do have our pride I guess.


----------



## Samson

dilloduck said:


> I've yet to know a man outlast a women especially a mature experienced one but we do have our pride I guess.





Um........you've watched, and then taken samples.......?




Unless an octopus was involved, I'm afraid that is weird.


----------



## dilloduck

Samson said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've yet to know a man outlast a women especially a mature experienced one but we do have our pride I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um........you've watched, and then taken samples.......?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless an octopus was involved, I'm afraid that is weird.
Click to expand...


Ya Ya---all these men who can go 24/7 and not skip a beat.


----------



## Lumpy 1

dilloduck said:


> I've yet to know a man outlast a women especially a mature experienced one but we do have our pride I guess.



You must be kidding...it's simple..Let the Gal take a superior position, burn out her energy and "O's" then finish up.. sheesh...


----------



## Samson

Lumpy 1 said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've yet to know a man outlast a women especially a mature experienced one but we do have our pride I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be kidding...it's simple..Let the Gal take a superior position, burn out her energy and "O's" then finish up.. sheesh...
Click to expand...


Can I watch TV, or read the paper?


----------



## Lumpy 1

Samson said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've yet to know a man outlast a women especially a mature experienced one but we do have our pride I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be kidding...it's simple..Let the Gal take a superior position, burn out her energy and "O's" then finish up.. sheesh...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I watch TV, or read the paper?
Click to expand...


...I suppose.. you do have to think about other things at times...


----------



## AquaAthena

Anachronism said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> considering the luck you've had maybe it should be your style.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not really. For some of us it's more important to be in the right type or relationship than it is to be in just any relationship. I'd rather spend my life as a bachelor than to spend it in and out of relationships that aren't what I'm looking for.
Click to expand...


That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.


----------



## Anachronism

AquaAthena said:


> That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.



Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.


----------



## dilloduck

Anachronism said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
Click to expand...


You've nearly succeeded in making it impossible for yourself. Keep trying and you'll get there.


----------



## Samson

Anachronism said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
Click to expand...


Modern AMERICAN women.

In almost every other country on earth, including those in Europe, you'll find that women are more traditional.


----------



## AquaAthena

Anachronism said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
Click to expand...


I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Anachronism said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
Click to expand...


Just wondering... did you grow up with more of a female influence on your perspectives?


----------



## dilloduck

AquaAthena said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.
Click to expand...


Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex ?
Might be nice in theory.


----------



## American Horse

Anachronism said:


> I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.
> 
> Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening.
> 
> She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.



That incident made her feel cheap and slutty.  In that case she would never want to see or talk with you again


----------



## Samson

dilloduck said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex ?
> Might be nice in theory.
Click to expand...


You've never been there.


----------



## AquaAthena

dilloduck said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex ?
> Might be nice in theory.
Click to expand...


It actually WORKS in reality, if the guy is a decent and "real man." He respects a woman more when he feels like she isn't ready until she is ready.  In other words, it isn't for the game; it IS for real.


----------



## Anachronism

Samson said:


> Modern AMERICAN women.
> 
> In almost every other country on earth, including those in Europe, you'll find that women are more traditional.



Which would be GREAT if I wasn't both an Isolationist AND a Nationalist.



AquaAthena said:


> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.



Yes, they definitely ARE working against themselves. A good cooking class and the willingness to watch a football game on a Sunday afternoon are much more useful in attracting a PERMANENT relationship than the willingness to jump between the sheets on a moment's notice.



Lumpy 1 said:


> Just wondering... did you grow up with more of a female influence on your perspectives?



No. Though I did grow up in a very Traditional family where morals, values, and ideals were the center of pretty much everything in life.



dilloduck said:


> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex? Might be nice in theory.



Great theory. Doesn't work in reality.



American Horse said:


> That incident made her feel cheap and slutty.  In that case she would never want to see or talke with you again



She had already been told that sex was not even a topic for discussion until we had reached a point of long-term commitment. To assume somehow that the third date was a point of long-term commitment was kind of sill on her part, wouldn't you say? 

Trust me, the feelings were completely and totally mutual, then.


----------



## dilloduck

AquaAthena said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex ?
> Might be nice in theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually WORKS in reality, if the guy is a decent and "real man." He respects a woman more when he feels like she isn't ready until she is ready.  In other words, it isn't for the game; it IS for real.
Click to expand...


In other words, a test ?


----------



## Samson

AquaAthena said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex ?
> Might be nice in theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually WORKS in reality, if the guy is a decent and "real man." He respects a woman more when he feels like she isn't ready until she is ready.  In other words, it isn't for the game; it IS for real.
Click to expand...


----------



## Richard-H

The problem is that what we are socialized to believe vs. the actual realities of human sexuality are very different things:

Women are obsessed with sex, though 'sex' is much more than just copulation to a women. Society socializes women to defy their true sex drive.

Men however are not quite as obsessed with sex as we are made to believe. Society promotes sexuality in men in order to get them to be more 'animalistic'.

Now, when men are young they are sexually repressed, and therefore sexually obsessed - basically young men will do just about anything for sex. However, as men get more experience with sex they become less obsessed with sex and more desirous of relationships - their 'paternal instinct' (i.e. desire for love) kicks in. They become selective.

Meanwhile, women are ever more cravenous of sex as they gain experience - this is only throttled by their intense instinctive desire to birth and provide a safe 'nest'. The desire for relationships by women is only because of the reality that wild sex lives are contradictory to providing a safe 'nest' in a modern soceity.

Meanwhile, men reduce their sex drives thru masterbation as a defensive mechanism - women will use a man's sex drive against him.

So for a mature intelligent responsible man, selectivity in sexual relationships is not only normal and healthy - it's plain smart. Of course sexual rejection outrages women - it means that they lose control - it means that they have to put more into a relationship than just sex - it defies their tendancy to use sex for dictatorial control of the relationship.

Of course there are a majority of men who are neither mature, intelligent or responsible and who are just too plain stupid to realize how much women take advantage of them - they protect themselves psychologically thru chauvanism.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Samson said:


> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
Click to expand...


This would be a big reason why the first order any dominatrix gives a sub is, "No masturbation without permission."


----------



## Cecilie1200

dilloduck said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have porn AND the real thing ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I gleaned from the article, this is not the case....unless you count faking it the "real thing."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess the point is that women aren't very used to hearing a man say no and don't take the rejection very lightly.
Click to expand...


Well, as the article said, women are more likely to take it as a personal rejection.  After all, we've been conditioned to think that men are basically penises with bodies attached, so if they don't want sex, it MUST be us, right?  The idea that men are human beings whose sexual response is affected by life and emotions doesn't occur to us.


----------



## Cecilie1200

dilloduck said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex ?
> Might be nice in theory.
Click to expand...


Or perhaps just treating oneself with respect and expecting others to do so, as well.


----------



## Cecilie1200

American Horse said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.
> 
> Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening.
> 
> She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That incident made her feel cheap and slutty.  In that case she would never want to see or talk with you again
Click to expand...


Sounds to me like she's blaming the messenger.


----------



## Anachronism

Cecilie1200 said:


> Well, as the article said, women are more likely to take it as a personal rejection.  After all, we've been conditioned to think that men are basically penises with bodies attached, so if they don't want sex, it MUST be us, right?  The idea that men are human beings whose sexual response is affected by life and emotions doesn't occur to us.



Ok. That's reasonable. However, it still begs my question about the incident I commented on earlier...

I had told the young lady in question that sex was not going to be part of our relationship until there was a long-term commitment from both of us. Then a date and a half later she gets all pissy because I'm NOT making a move on her. 

Is it simply a belief that because I'm male, I must have been lying about not being interested in a sexual relationship until we were much further along into the relationsip, or something else?


----------



## Cecilie1200

Anachronism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Modern AMERICAN women.
> 
> In almost every other country on earth, including those in Europe, you'll find that women are more traditional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which would be GREAT if I wasn't both an Isolationist AND a Nationalist.
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand where you are coming from. Women I know, will go to bed with a guy fast! These are women looking for permanence. I tell them they are working against themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they definitely ARE working against themselves. A good cooking class and the willingness to watch a football game on a Sunday afternoon are much more useful in attracting a PERMANENT relationship than the willingness to jump between the sheets on a moment's notice.
> 
> 
> 
> No. Though I did grow up in a very Traditional family where morals, values, and ideals were the center of pretty much everything in life.
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex? Might be nice in theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great theory. Doesn't work in reality.
> 
> 
> 
> American Horse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That incident made her feel cheap and slutty.  In that case she would never want to see or talke with you again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She had already been told that sex was not even a topic for discussion until we had reached a point of long-term commitment. To assume somehow that the third date was a point of long-term commitment was kind of sill on her part, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Trust me, the feelings were completely and totally mutual, then.
Click to expand...


Just for the record, I don't watch football, and no power on Earth could make me do so.  I WILL, however, happily provide snacks for my menfolk when THEY watch football, and absent myself from the area so they can watch in peace.


----------



## Anachronism

Cecilie1200 said:


> Just for the record, I don't watch football, and no power on Earth could make me do so.  I WILL, however, happily provide snacks for my menfolk when THEY watch football, and absent myself from the area so they can watch in peace.



That works as well.


----------



## Cecilie1200

dilloduck said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh the theory of the golden pussy ?  Make them work for it and commit before any sex ?
> Might be nice in theory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It actually WORKS in reality, if the guy is a decent and "real man." He respects a woman more when he feels like she isn't ready until she is ready.  In other words, it isn't for the game; it IS for real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, a test ?
Click to expand...


No more than any other aspect of the dating-and-getting-acquainted phase of a relationship.  It IS all about finding someone you have a lot in common with, right?  And I'd say, "Respects me as a person rather than a sexual vending machine" would be at least as important as "has the same religious and political views".


----------



## Cecilie1200

Anachronism said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, as the article said, women are more likely to take it as a personal rejection.  After all, we've been conditioned to think that men are basically penises with bodies attached, so if they don't want sex, it MUST be us, right?  The idea that men are human beings whose sexual response is affected by life and emotions doesn't occur to us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. That's reasonable. However, it still begs my question about the incident I commented on earlier...
> 
> I had told the young lady in question that sex was not going to be part of our relationship until there was a long-term commitment from both of us. Then a date and a half later she gets all pissy because I'm NOT making a move on her.
> 
> Is it simply a belief that because I'm male, I must have been lying about not being interested in a sexual relationship until we were much further along into the relationsip, or something else?
Click to expand...


Well, I haven't met the woman, so I can't say for sure, but it SOUNDS as though she'd been conditioned to equate her personal worth with her ability to get men to have sex with her.  When you turned her down, you invalidated her self-esteem.


----------



## HUGGY

Samson said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.
> 
> Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening.
> 
> She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men don't want sex"*
> 
> When the woman has more hair on her body than I do.     OR she smells like the incense from an old hippy head shop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're the picky one, ain't ya.
Click to expand...


Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.

So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!


----------



## Anachronism

Cecilie1200 said:


> Well, I haven't met the woman, so I can't say for sure, but it SOUNDS as though she'd been conditioned to equate her personal worth with her ability to get men to have sex with her.  When you turned her down, you invalidated her self-esteem.



Obviously since none of us are her, we can't say for sure. I can see where your idea might hold a lot of water, though considering her appearance, intelligence, and other factors I would hope that her ability to get a guy to screw her would not totally invalidate her self-esteem; but we all know things like that DO happen.


----------



## High_Gravity

HUGGY said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men don't want sex"*
> 
> When the woman has more hair on her body than I do.     OR she smells like the incense from an old hippy head shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're the picky one, ain't ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
Click to expand...


Not everyone is a pimp like you, charge it to the game.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Anachronism said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I haven't met the woman, so I can't say for sure, but it SOUNDS as though she'd been conditioned to equate her personal worth with her ability to get men to have sex with her.  When you turned her down, you invalidated her self-esteem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously since none of us are her, we can't say for sure. I can see where your idea might hold a lot of water, though considering her appearance, intelligence, and other factors I would hope that her ability to get a guy to screw her would not totally invalidate her self-esteem; but we all know things like that DO happen.
Click to expand...


It really doesn't have much to do with looks or intelligence, though.  In fact, often the MORE attractive a woman is physically, it seems, the more likely it is that her self-esteem is tied to the reaction she gets from men.  It's just conditioning.  It's one of the reasons that a strong, positive father figure is so important to a young girl.

Furthermore (and I don't mean to hurt your feelings), given your circumstances, it's likely that she figured YOU were a "sure thing", and perhaps even thought she was doing you a favor.  Under those circumstances, it would be doubly humiliating to her for you to turn her down.


----------



## Anachronism

Cecilie1200 said:


> It really doesn't have much to do with looks or intelligence, though.  In fact, often the MORE attractive a woman is physically, it seems, the more likely it is that her self-esteem is tied to the reaction she gets from men.  It's just conditioning.  It's one of the reasons that a strong, positive father figure is so important to a young girl.



I am going to defer to your much greater experience in this particular vein.



Cecilie1200 said:


> Furthermore (and I don't mean to hurt your feelings), given your circumstances, it's likely that she figured YOU were a "sure thing", and perhaps even thought she was doing you a favor.  Under those circumstances, it would be doubly humiliating to her for you to turn her down.



No feelings hurt, whatsoever. I've been the "mercy date". I've been the "mercy ****". I went down that road several times in my high school/college years. I learned how to notice that sort of thing and avoid it at all costs. It isn't worth anyone's time. If that's truly what she expected (and it might have been), then she hadn't been paying much attention to our conversations on the three dates. Her loss.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Anachronism said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It really doesn't have much to do with looks or intelligence, though.  In fact, often the MORE attractive a woman is physically, it seems, the more likely it is that her self-esteem is tied to the reaction she gets from men.  It's just conditioning.  It's one of the reasons that a strong, positive father figure is so important to a young girl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to defer to your much greater experience in this particular vein.
Click to expand...


Thank you.  My own father thought his daughters - all his children, really - were wonderful and able to do anything we put our minds to.  I would no more have doubted my father's love, acceptance, and support than I would have doubted the sun coming up in the morning.  And he treated my mother with great respect and deference, without being in the slightest "whipped".  I'm quite sure this had a lot to do with my sister and me becoming strong, independent women as adults.



Anachronism said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore (and I don't mean to hurt your feelings), given your circumstances, it's likely that she figured YOU were a "sure thing", and perhaps even thought she was doing you a favor.  Under those circumstances, it would be doubly humiliating to her for you to turn her down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No feelings hurt, whatsoever. I've been the "mercy date". I've been the "mercy ****". I went down that road several times in my high school/college years. I learned how to notice that sort of thing and avoid it at all costs. It isn't worth anyone's time. If that's truly what she expected (and it might have been), then she hadn't been paying much attention to our conversations on the three dates. Her loss.
Click to expand...


I think it was, yes.


----------



## Anachronism

Cecilie1200 said:


> Thank you......



You're welcome.



Cecilie1200 said:


> I think it was, yes.



What she expected or her loss?


----------



## Cecilie1200

Anachronism said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What she expected or her loss?
Click to expand...


Both, actually.


----------



## Lumpy 1

HUGGY said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men don't want sex"*
> 
> When the woman has more hair on her body than I do.     OR she smells like the incense from an old hippy head shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're the picky one, ain't ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
Click to expand...


5 to 6 thousand women...... 

You SLUT......


----------



## HUGGY

Lumpy 1 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're the picky one, ain't ya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 5 to 6 thousand women......
> 
> You SLUT......
Click to expand...


Naw...only about a thousand...ya gotta slow down and take some time with a few of them.


----------



## spectrumc01

When men don't want sex???????

is that even possible?


----------



## Lumpy 1

HUGGY said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 to 6 thousand women......
> 
> You SLUT......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Naw...only about a thousand...ya gotta slow down and take some time with a few of them.
Click to expand...


I'm thinking you have a problem with commitment...Duh...


----------



## Momanohedhunter

Samson said:


> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
Click to expand...


I like sex more then porn. Those are crazy numbers.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Momanohedhunter said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I like sex more then porn. Those are crazy numbers.
Click to expand...


I think porn is comical.. just sayin


----------



## Momanohedhunter

Lumpy 1 said:


> Momanohedhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like sex more then porn. Those are crazy numbers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think porn is comical.. just sayin
Click to expand...


Porn is indeed funny.


----------



## Barb

Richard-H said:


> The problem is that what we are socialized to believe vs. the actual realities of human sexuality are very different things:
> 
> Women are obsessed with sex, though 'sex' is much more than just copulation to a women. Society socializes women to defy their true sex drive.
> 
> Men however are not quite as obsessed with sex as we are made to believe. Society promotes sexuality in men in order to get them to be more 'animalistic'.
> 
> Now, when men are young they are sexually repressed, and therefore sexually obsessed - basically young men will do just about anything for sex. However, as men get more experience with sex they become less obsessed with sex and more desirous of relationships - their 'paternal instinct' (i.e. desire for love) kicks in. They become selective.
> 
> Meanwhile, women are ever more cravenous of sex as they gain experience - this is only throttled by their intense instinctive desire to birth and provide a safe 'nest'. The desire for relationships by women is only because of the reality that wild sex lives are contradictory to providing a safe 'nest' in a modern soceity.
> 
> Meanwhile, men reduce their sex drives thru masterbation as a defensive mechanism - women will use a man's sex drive against him.
> 
> So for a mature intelligent responsible man, selectivity in sexual relationships is not only normal and healthy - it's plain smart. Of course sexual rejection outrages women - it means that they lose control - it means that they have to put more into a relationship than just sex - it defies their tendancy to use sex for dictatorial control of the relationship.
> 
> Of course there are a majority of men who are neither mature, intelligent or responsible and who are just too plain stupid to realize how much women take advantage of them - they protect themselves psychologically thru chauvanism.



The question is not, "Is she a witch?" Of course she is a witch, she's a woman, and any woman worth her salt is a witch. The question needs to be, "Is she a good witch or a bad witch?" 

One thing though, for women, it is not "all about control," although for some of us, a different type of that than you meant can be an interesting thought too. Women seek pleasure for reasons just as basic, physical, and chemical, that men do.


----------



## Phoenix

Samson said:


> Can I watch TV, or read the paper?



NASCAR, darlin'.


----------



## HUGGY

Lumpy 1 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 to 6 thousand women......
> 
> You SLUT......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naw...only about a thousand...ya gotta slow down and take some time with a few of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm thinking you have a problem with commitment...Duh...
Click to expand...


Ya think?  I've been with about three for close to five years each.  Faithful to one?  Maybe for a month.  It's hard to turn down good pussy.  I can't say I often went out looking specifically to get laid but it just seemed to happen a lot.  I wasn't even safe when I was a married mailman right out of high school.  Women would set sex traps for me if they thought I was ahead on my mail route.  It's their fault!!!   The harlots just kept throwing that pussy in my face!!!  What was I supposed to do???  They are sneaky!!!  They know just what to do to make ya want em...for a little while anyway.


----------



## Lumpy 1

HUGGY said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Naw...only about a thousand...ya gotta slow down and take some time with a few of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking you have a problem with commitment...Duh...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya think?  I've been with about three for close to five years each.  Faithful to one?  Maybe for a month.  It's hard to turn down good pussy.  I can't say I often went out looking specifically to get laid but it just seemed to happen a lot.  I wasn't even safe when I was a married mailman right out of high school.  Women would set sex traps for me if they though I was ahead on my mail route.  It's their fault!!!   The harlots just kept throwing that pussy in my face!!!  What was I supposed to do???  They are sneaky!!!  They know just what to do to make ya want em...for a little while anyway.
Click to expand...


I always wanted to be married and be a father but I also wanted to, "sew the oats", which I did. Those were wild times and  enjoyed them to the fullest... Thousand no but hundreds easy...I kinda pursued the bitchy good looking ones, no quilt when I dropped them..


----------



## HUGGY

Lumpy 1 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking you have a problem with commitment...Duh...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya think?  I've been with about three for close to five years each.  Faithful to one?  Maybe for a month.  It's hard to turn down good pussy.  I can't say I often went out looking specifically to get laid but it just seemed to happen a lot.  I wasn't even safe when I was a married mailman right out of high school.  Women would set sex traps for me if they though I was ahead on my mail route.  It's their fault!!!   The harlots just kept throwing that pussy in my face!!!  What was I supposed to do???  They are sneaky!!!  They know just what to do to make ya want em...for a little while anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I also wanted to be married and be a father but I also wanted to, "sew the oats", which I did. Those were wild times and  enjoyed them to the fullest... Thousand no but hundreds easy...I kinda pursued the bitchy good looking ones, no quilt when I dropped them..
Click to expand...


You're the man Lumpy!!  I just knew it!!!


----------



## Lumpy 1

HUGGY said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya think?  I've been with about three for close to five years each.  Faithful to one?  Maybe for a month.  It's hard to turn down good pussy.  I can't say I often went out looking specifically to get laid but it just seemed to happen a lot.  I wasn't even safe when I was a married mailman right out of high school.  Women would set sex traps for me if they though I was ahead on my mail route.  It's their fault!!!   The harlots just kept throwing that pussy in my face!!!  What was I supposed to do???  They are sneaky!!!  They know just what to do to make ya want em...for a little while anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also wanted to be married and be a father but I also wanted to, "sew the oats", which I did. Those were wild times and  enjoyed them to the fullest... Thousand no but hundreds easy...I kinda pursued the bitchy good looking ones, no quilt when I dropped them..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're the man Lumpy!!  I just knew it!!!
Click to expand...


I loved the hunt... but we played it differently... We should exchange stories sometime about the ladies in their prime...

. I think we both know what the others only dream about....


----------



## Big Black Dog

This is one of those "joke" threads, right?


----------



## Lumpy 1

Big Black Dog said:


> This is one of those "joke" threads, right?



Hey.. aren't you up past your bedtime... Skippy...


----------



## strollingbones

HUGGY said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men don't want sex"*
> 
> When the woman has more hair on her body than I do.     OR she smells like the incense from an old hippy head shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're the picky one, ain't ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
Click to expand...



your eyes are brown, eh?


----------



## strollingbones

and yall need to overcome this....got to be married to fuck.....that is the reason for the high divorce rate....marriage


----------



## Toro

Anachronism said:


> I will tell you that it can be very interesting to see the reaction of a woman when you tell her that you're not interested in having sex with her at that time.
> 
> Several years ago I dated a lady who invited me into her home after our third date. We sat around for a while in her living room talking. At which point she looked over at me and asked, quite directly... "Well, are you going to make a move on me or not?" I informed her that No, I was not intending on making "a move" on her that evening.
> 
> She was rather shocked and demanded to know why. I told her the same thing that I'd told her the first time sex had even come up, during our second date.... I don't believe casual sex is appropriate and don't engage in it. Sex is for long-term, committed relationships so far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The look of shock on her face was almost as if I'd told her that I didn't have a penis, or something to that effect. She all but bodily threw me out of her condo and told me that she didn't want to ever hear from or see me again, which at that point was fine with me.



What's her phone number?


----------



## Toro

Anachronism said:


> Yes, they definitely ARE working against themselves. *A good cooking class* and the willingness to watch a football game on a Sunday afternoon are much more useful in attracting a PERMANENT relationship than the willingness to jump between the sheets on a moment's notice.



Maybe that's your problem.

You might want to take a cooking class (if you don't know how to cook).  A man knowing how to cook can be a powerful aphrodisiac for some women.


----------



## Toro

AquaAthena said:


> It actually WORKS in reality, if the guy is a decent and "real man." He respects a woman more when he feels like she isn't ready until she is ready.  In other words, it isn't for the game; it IS for real.



The funny thing was, the more I was interested in a woman, the less I wanted to hop into bed with her right away.  Plus, taking your time made it better later.


----------



## Samson

strollingbones said:


> and yall need to overcome this....got to be married to fuck.....that is the reason for the high divorce rate....marriage





Yes with out Marriage, there'd be NO divorce rate!

By Golly, SB, I think you've hit the nail on its pointy little head!!!


----------



## strollingbones

samson i got all the answers


----------



## Samson

strollingbones said:


> samson i got all the answers



Well, then I hope you don't mind if I bounce a theory off you that I've been kickin' around:

Without Life, there be NO Death?


----------



## editec

Want him to be more of a man?

Try being more of a woman.


----------



## George Costanza

Barb said:


> One thing though, for women, it is not "all about control," although for some of us, a different type of that than you meant can be an interesting thought too. Women seek pleasure for reasons just as basic, physical, and chemical, that men do.



Perhaps.  But would you agree that women are wired differently than men when it comes to how they handle their approach to sex in general?


----------



## HUGGY

strollingbones said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're the picky one, ain't ya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your eyes are brown, eh?
Click to expand...


Green.  Why the doubter?  It is simply a matter of opportunity..and common sense.  Spend most of your time in places where people have most of their clothes off already..outside bars in the hot sun put people in the mood. Preferably one with a hot tub or bar side pool.  Have enough money and time to entertain...If you go to an outside bar/restaurant get the best table with shade..order two of the best appetizers and don't pig out.  If someone interesting comes along it's good to have something tasty and pleasing already there.  It's no mystery cupcake.  It doesn't hurt to have symmetrical features and perfect teeth, perfect complexion.  Shower two or three times a day.  Get your hair styled professionally... minimum jewelry, top name clothing but simple..not gaudy.  Get a tan..a real one.  Drive a nice car or be driven in a nice car.  Tip generously...ALWAYS!  Be kind in public.  Learn how to dance.  Be selective with whom you are seen.  Women are jealous by nature..they always want what the most beautiful girl in the room is having.  In some circles it also helps to have good taste in party favors..best wine, weed..cocaine and don't be stingy with it.  For Christ sake learn how to please a woman physically.  Don't waste time when the green light is on.  Tell her what is on your mind and have a private place to go to.  She will probably tell you before you bring it up if you are what she has in mind.  Never talk about other women..not even if she asks.  NEVER take her to a fast food place!  If you must have crap food always have it brought to you by room service or courier..that makes it appear you are selective.  When in the best restaurant you can afford tell her what's good there but always tell her to order anything she wants.  Don't EVER order a drink with an umbrella in it or any fruit.  For Gods sake go out and buy the best tailored 3 piece suit you can afford... I look good in a French dark chocolate velvet.  Men ALWAYS look better in western boots. EXCEPT when you are wearing only swim trunks!   Your choice in sun glasses is important.  Either have the most expensive understated ones or Rayban "Aviators".  Smell good!  Find the deodorant or cologne that works for you and stick with it.  DON"T EVER WHINE!!! EVER!!! Find the most interesting features of your surroundings and talk about THAT...If the most interesting feature of your surroundings is her..talk about her.  Point out her best features.  She didn't spend all that time on herself in front of the mirror for nothing.  NEVER groom yourself in public.  There is more but those are some of the basics.  Follow these tips and you will get laid CONSTANTLY!


----------



## High_Gravity

HUGGY said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your eyes are brown, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green.  Why the doubter?  It is simply a matter of opportunity..and common sense.  Spend most of your time in places where people have most of their clothes off already..outside bars in the hot sun put people in the mood. Preferably one with a hot tub or bar side pool.  Have enough money and time to entertain...If you go to an outside bar/restaurant get the best table with shade..order two of the best appetizers and don't pig out.  If someone interesting comes along it's good to have something tasty and pleasing already there.  It's no mystery cupcake.  It doesn't hurt to have symmetrical features and perfect teeth, perfect complexion.  Shower two or three times a day.  Get your hair styled professionally... minimum jewelry, top name clothing but simple..not gaudy.  Get a tan..a real one.  Drive a nice car or be driven in a nice car.  Tip generously...ALWAYS!  Be kind in public.  Learn how to dance.  Be selective with whom you are seen.  Women are jealous by nature..they always want what the most beautiful girl in the room is having.  In some circles it also helps to have good taste in party favors..best wine, weed..cocaine and don't be stingy with it.  For Christ sake learn how to please a woman physically.  Don't waste time when the green light is on.  Tell her what is on your mind and have a private place to go to.  She will probably tell you before you bring it up if you are what she has in mind.  Never talk about other women..not even if she asks.  NEVER take her to a fast food place!  If you must have crap food always have it brought to you by room service or courier..that makes it appear you are selective.  When in the best restaurant you can afford tell her what's good there but always tell her to order anything she wants.  Don't EVER order a drink with an umbrella in it or any fruit.  For Gods sake go out and buy the best tailored 3 piece suit you can afford... I look good in a French dark chocolate velvet.  Men ALWAYS look better in western boots. EXCEPT when you are wearing only swim trunks!   Your choice in sun glasses is important.  Either have the most expensive understated ones or Rayban "Aviators".  Smell good!  Find the deodorant or cologne that works for you and stick with it.  DON"T EVER WHINE!!! EVER!!! Find the most interesting features of your surroundings and talk about THAT...If the most interesting feature of your surroundings is her..talk about her.  Point out her best features.  She didn't spend all that time on herself in front of the mirror for nothing.  NEVER groom yourself in public.  There is more but those are some of the basics.  Follow these tips and you will get laid CONSTANTLY!
Click to expand...




You need to write a book on how to pick up women.


----------



## Anachronism

Toro said:


> Maybe that's your problem.
> 
> You might want to take a cooking class (if you don't know how to cook).  A man knowing how to cook can be a powerful aphrodisiac for some women.



I cook sufficiently well for my own needs as a bachelor. The sort of woman that's an aphrodisiac for are probably NOT the sort of women that I'm looking for, Toro.


----------



## Tech_Esq

HUGGY said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya probably.  I've turned down more requests for sex than most guys ever had the chance to.  Maybe I've just been spoiled on great sex with very desirable women.  It's hard to count up the times but I've likely nixed intercourse probably a thousand times in the last 50 years and participated willingly something like 5-6 times that number.
> 
> So go ahead..call me a slut!  BUT I'm a selective one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your eyes are brown, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Green.  Why the doubter?  It is simply a matter of opportunity..and common sense.  Spend most of your time in places where people have most of their clothes off already..outside bars in the hot sun put people in the mood. Preferably one with a hot tub or bar side pool.  Have enough money and time to entertain...If you go to an outside bar/restaurant get the best table with shade..order two of the best appetizers and don't pig out.  If someone interesting comes along it's good to have something tasty and pleasing already there.  It's no mystery cupcake.  It doesn't hurt to have symmetrical features and perfect teeth, perfect complexion.  Shower two or three times a day.  Get your hair styled professionally... minimum jewelry, top name clothing but simple..not gaudy.  Get a tan..a real one.  Drive a nice car or be driven in a nice car.  Tip generously...ALWAYS!  Be kind in public.  Learn how to dance.  Be selective with whom you are seen.  Women are jealous by nature..they always want what the most beautiful girl in the room is having.  In some circles it also helps to have good taste in party favors..best wine, weed..cocaine and don't be stingy with it.  For Christ sake learn how to please a woman physically.  Don't waste time when the green light is on.  Tell her what is on your mind and have a private place to go to.  She will probably tell you before you bring it up if you are what she has in mind.  Never talk about other women..not even if she asks.  NEVER take her to a fast food place!  If you must have crap food always have it brought to you by room service or courier..that makes it appear you are selective.  When in the best restaurant you can afford tell her what's good there but always tell her to order anything she wants.  Don't EVER order a drink with an umbrella in it or any fruit.  For Gods sake go out and buy the best tailored 3 piece suit you can afford... I look good in a French dark chocolate velvet.  Men ALWAYS look better in western boots. EXCEPT when you are wearing only swim trunks!   Your choice in sun glasses is important.  Either have the most expensive understated ones or Rayban "Aviators".  Smell good!  Find the deodorant or cologne that works for you and stick with it.  DON"T EVER WHINE!!! EVER!!! Find the most interesting features of your surroundings and talk about THAT...If the most interesting feature of your surroundings is her..talk about her.  Point out her best features.  She didn't spend all that time on herself in front of the mirror for nothing.  NEVER groom yourself in public.  There is more but those are some of the basics.  Follow these tips and you will get laid CONSTANTLY!
Click to expand...


I agree with Huggy about NOTHING. However, when the truth is spoken, you must give it its due. You're right, and it does work just as you say. 

Even if you don't have all of those things working, it just lowers the number a trifle, but not enough to worry about.


----------



## Toro

Anachronism said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's your problem.
> 
> You might want to take a cooking class (if you don't know how to cook).  A man knowing how to cook can be a powerful aphrodisiac for some women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cook sufficiently well for my own needs as a bachelor. The sort of woman that's an aphrodisiac for are probably NOT the sort of women that I'm looking for, Toro.
Click to expand...


Why?  The women I dated were all educated, intelligent and attractive. Almost all liked to have a man who could cook. And I wasn't a particularly good cook when I was single. Why wouldn't a guy want that?


----------



## Anachronism

Toro said:


> Why?  The women I dated were all educated, intelligent and attractive. Almost all liked to have a man who could cook. And I wasn't a particularly good cook when I was single. Why wouldn't a guy want that?



I'm a Traditionalist, Toro. They haven't made the model of woman that I prefer in any significant numbers since the 1930's...... You know, the traditional 1950's housewife.


----------



## Toro

I hope you find what you're looking for then.


----------



## High_Gravity

Anachronism said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  The women I dated were all educated, intelligent and attractive. Almost all liked to have a man who could cook. And I wasn't a particularly good cook when I was single. Why wouldn't a guy want that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a Traditionalist, Toro. They haven't made the model of woman that I prefer in any significant numbers since the 1930's...... You know, the traditional 1950's housewife.
Click to expand...


Those are still available in the Middle East and Korea but you don't want to go there.


----------



## Barb

George Costanza said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing though, for women, it is not "all about control," although for some of us, a different type of that than you meant can be an interesting thought too. Women seek pleasure for reasons just as basic, physical, and chemical, that men do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps.  But would you agree that women are wired differently than men when it comes to how they handle their approach to sex in general?
Click to expand...


I'm on the fence as to what parts of that are socialization, and what parts are actual wiring. Nature versus nurture. I believe it is a mix.


----------



## Samson

Barb said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing though, for women, it is not "all about control," although for some of us, a different type of that than you meant can be an interesting thought too. Women seek pleasure for reasons just as basic, physical, and chemical, that men do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps.  But would you agree that women are wired differently than men when it comes to how they handle their approach to sex in general?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence as to what parts of that are socialization, and what parts are actual wiring. Nature versus nurture. I believe it is a mix.
Click to expand...




Ya think?


----------



## Samson

Toro said:


> I hope you find what you're looking for then.



I think they still have some 1950 models on the shelf in Bulgaria.

Anachronism needs a catalog.


----------



## George Costanza

Barb said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing though, for women, it is not "all about control," although for some of us, a different type of that than you meant can be an interesting thought too. Women seek pleasure for reasons just as basic, physical, and chemical, that men do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps.  But would you agree that women are wired differently than men when it comes to how they handle their approach to sex in general?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence as to what parts of that are socialization, and what parts are actual wiring. Nature versus nurture. I believe it is a mix.
Click to expand...


Rogers and Hammerstein considered this one.  There is a song in "The King and I" called "Song of the King."  The King is pontificating on his double standard analysis of man's pursuit of woman.  At the close of the song, he says: 

A girl must be like a blossom
With honey for just one man. 
A man must be like honey bee 
And gather all he can. 
To fly from blossom to blossom 
A honey bee must be free, 
But blossom must not ever fly 
From bee to bee to bee.

I love that guy . . . 

George


----------



## Barb

George Costanza said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps.  But would you agree that women are wired differently than men when it comes to how they handle their approach to sex in general?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence as to what parts of that are socialization, and what parts are actual wiring. Nature versus nurture. I believe it is a mix.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rogers and Hammerstein considered this one.  There is a song in "The King and I" called "Song of the King."  The King is pontificating on his double standard analysis of man's pursuit of woman.  At the close of the song, he says:
> 
> A girl must be like a blossom
> With honey for just one man.
> A man must be like honey bee
> And gather all he can.
> To fly from blossom to blossom
> A honey bee must be free,
> But blossom must not ever fly
> From bee to bee to bee.
> 
> I love that guy . . .
> 
> George
Click to expand...


Well, isn't that convenient...for men


----------



## Grace

dilloduck said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how I feel. If one is *only* interested in casual sex, the whole experience is diminished and much less satisfying. It would leave one feeling empty, I think. There has to be other things in common that don't involve carnality. The more meaningful the experience the greater the pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. The problem in my case being that what I'm seeking is much more of a traditional type relationship than most modern women are seeking, which adds a second strike against me, for most of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've nearly succeeded in making it impossible for yourself. Keep trying and you'll get there.
Click to expand...


There are women out there that feel the same way he does. Not impossible. Just more picky and secure in what he wants...and she wants.


----------



## Meister

Shadow said:


> *When men dont want sex*
> 
> Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor and New York Times best-selling author, blogs about sex on Thursdays on The Chart. Read more from him at his website, GoodInBed.
> 
> *Not tonight, honey. I have a headache*. How many times has a guy heard that before? Husbands around the world are all too familiar with being sexually rejected. But now, more than ever, those words, (or some variation), are being expressed by men, to their female partners. While the conventional wisdom has been that its usually the woman in the relationship who inevitably loses interest in sex, the opposite is often true. Low male desire is at all-time high, and is likely to occur for any number of reasons:
> 
> When men don



I used that one time with an ex live-in girlfriend after she hit me in the head with a glass of ice tea, then wanted make-up sex.


----------



## Anachronism

IMEURU said:


> There are women out there that feel the same way he does. Not impossible. Just more picky and secure in what he wants...and she wants.



Nice to see that at least somebody gets it.


----------



## Shadow

Meister said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> *When men dont want sex*
> 
> Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor and New York Times best-selling author, blogs about sex on Thursdays on The Chart. Read more from him at his website, GoodInBed.
> 
> *Not tonight, honey. I have a headache*. How many times has a guy heard that before? Husbands around the world are all too familiar with being sexually rejected. But now, more than ever, those words, (or some variation), are being expressed by men, to their female partners. While the conventional wisdom has been that its usually the woman in the relationship who inevitably loses interest in sex, the opposite is often true. Low male desire is at all-time high, and is likely to occur for any number of reasons:
> 
> When men don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used that one time with an ex live-in girlfriend after she hit me in the head with a glass of ice tea, then wanted make-up sex.
Click to expand...


What is with men,and dating women who bean them with glass objects?  Or Women who pull their arms out of sockets?  It the make up sex THAT good?


----------



## Momanohedhunter

High_Gravity said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> your eyes are brown, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green.  Why the doubter?  It is simply a matter of opportunity..and common sense.  Spend most of your time in places where people have most of their clothes off already..outside bars in the hot sun put people in the mood. Preferably one with a hot tub or bar side pool.  Have enough money and time to entertain...If you go to an outside bar/restaurant get the best table with shade..order two of the best appetizers and don't pig out.  If someone interesting comes along it's good to have something tasty and pleasing already there.  It's no mystery cupcake.  It doesn't hurt to have symmetrical features and perfect teeth, perfect complexion.  Shower two or three times a day.  Get your hair styled professionally... minimum jewelry, top name clothing but simple..not gaudy.  Get a tan..a real one.  Drive a nice car or be driven in a nice car.  Tip generously...ALWAYS!  Be kind in public.  Learn how to dance.  Be selective with whom you are seen.  Women are jealous by nature..they always want what the most beautiful girl in the room is having.  In some circles it also helps to have good taste in party favors..best wine, weed..cocaine and don't be stingy with it.  For Christ sake learn how to please a woman physically.  Don't waste time when the green light is on.  Tell her what is on your mind and have a private place to go to.  She will probably tell you before you bring it up if you are what she has in mind.  Never talk about other women..not even if she asks.  NEVER take her to a fast food place!  If you must have crap food always have it brought to you by room service or courier..that makes it appear you are selective.  When in the best restaurant you can afford tell her what's good there but always tell her to order anything she wants.  Don't EVER order a drink with an umbrella in it or any fruit.  For Gods sake go out and buy the best tailored 3 piece suit you can afford... I look good in a French dark chocolate velvet.  Men ALWAYS look better in western boots. EXCEPT when you are wearing only swim trunks!   Your choice in sun glasses is important.  Either have the most expensive understated ones or Rayban "Aviators".  Smell good!  Find the deodorant or cologne that works for you and stick with it.  DON"T EVER WHINE!!! EVER!!! Find the most interesting features of your surroundings and talk about THAT...If the most interesting feature of your surroundings is her..talk about her.  Point out her best features.  She didn't spend all that time on herself in front of the mirror for nothing.  NEVER groom yourself in public.  There is more but those are some of the basics.  Follow these tips and you will get laid CONSTANTLY!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to write a book on how to pick up women.
Click to expand...


You mean there is a better way then ruphi's ?


----------



## ekrem

Samson said:


> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
Click to expand...



If the Japanese invent a female Cyborg with power-off and power-on, women in society will revert to a more traditionalist role. Out of free will.
Unless the 1st generation of Cyborgs have a software malfunction and behave like a moody creature with a lot of headaches once they are powered on.


----------



## ekrem

Richard-H said:


> The problem is that what we are socialized to believe vs. the actual realities of human sexuality are very different things:
> 
> Women are obsessed with sex, though 'sex' is much more than just copulation to a women. Society socializes women to defy their true sex drive.
> 
> Men however are not quite as obsessed with sex as we are made to believe. Society promotes sexuality in men in order to get them to be more 'animalistic'.
> 
> Now, when men are young they are sexually repressed, and therefore sexually obsessed - basically young men will do just about anything for sex. However, as men get more experience with sex they become less obsessed with sex and more desirous of relationships - their 'paternal instinct' (i.e. desire for love) kicks in. They become selective.
> 
> Meanwhile, women are ever more cravenous of sex as they gain experience - this is only throttled by their intense instinctive desire to birth and provide a safe 'nest'. The desire for relationships by women is only because of the reality that wild sex lives are contradictory to providing a safe 'nest' in a modern soceity.
> 
> Meanwhile, men reduce their sex drives thru masterbation as a defensive mechanism - women will use a man's sex drive against him.
> 
> So for a mature intelligent responsible man, selectivity in sexual relationships is not only normal and healthy - it's plain smart. Of course sexual rejection outrages women - it means that they lose control - it means that they have to put more into a relationship than just sex - it defies their tendancy to use sex for dictatorial control of the relationship.
> 
> Of course there are a majority of men who are neither mature, intelligent or responsible and who are just too plain stupid to realize how much women take advantage of them - they protect themselves psychologically thru chauvanism.



Social standards improve with time.
The law-giver says, that women are equal and have a self-esteem, which is guaranteed and to be respected.
This was not always the case.
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8408/oldtmes.jpg


----------



## ekrem

Cecilie1200 said:


> After all, we've been conditioned to think that men are basically penises with bodies attached, so if they don't want sex, it MUST be us, right?  The idea that men are human beings whose sexual response is affected by life and emotions doesn't occur to us.



+18
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/6985/7c631481f60ae6652eeb079.jpg


----------



## HUGGY

Momanohedhunter said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Green.  Why the doubter?  It is simply a matter of opportunity..and common sense.  Spend most of your time in places where people have most of their clothes off already..outside bars in the hot sun put people in the mood. Preferably one with a hot tub or bar side pool.  Have enough money and time to entertain...If you go to an outside bar/restaurant get the best table with shade..order two of the best appetizers and don't pig out.  If someone interesting comes along it's good to have something tasty and pleasing already there.  It's no mystery cupcake.  It doesn't hurt to have symmetrical features and perfect teeth, perfect complexion.  Shower two or three times a day.  Get your hair styled professionally... minimum jewelry, top name clothing but simple..not gaudy.  Get a tan..a real one.  Drive a nice car or be driven in a nice car.  Tip generously...ALWAYS!  Be kind in public.  Learn how to dance.  Be selective with whom you are seen.  Women are jealous by nature..they always want what the most beautiful girl in the room is having.  In some circles it also helps to have good taste in party favors..best wine, weed..cocaine and don't be stingy with it.  For Christ sake learn how to please a woman physically.  Don't waste time when the green light is on.  Tell her what is on your mind and have a private place to go to.  She will probably tell you before you bring it up if you are what she has in mind.  Never talk about other women..not even if she asks.  NEVER take her to a fast food place!  If you must have crap food always have it brought to you by room service or courier..that makes it appear you are selective.  When in the best restaurant you can afford tell her what's good there but always tell her to order anything she wants.  Don't EVER order a drink with an umbrella in it or any fruit.  For Gods sake go out and buy the best tailored 3 piece suit you can afford... I look good in a French dark chocolate velvet.  Men ALWAYS look better in western boots. EXCEPT when you are wearing only swim trunks!   Your choice in sun glasses is important.  Either have the most expensive understated ones or Rayban "Aviators".  Smell good!  Find the deodorant or cologne that works for you and stick with it.  DON"T EVER WHINE!!! EVER!!! Find the most interesting features of your surroundings and talk about THAT...If the most interesting feature of your surroundings is her..talk about her.  Point out her best features.  She didn't spend all that time on herself in front of the mirror for nothing.  NEVER groom yourself in public.  There is more but those are some of the basics.  Follow these tips and you will get laid CONSTANTLY!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to write a book on how to pick up women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean there is a better way then ruphi's ?
Click to expand...


I suppose to some that may be humorous.  Not to be a wet blanket but I don't think it is funny to joke about putting any woman or man at a chemical, drug or alcohol disadvantage to coerce them into doing something they wouldn't do of their own free will with a clear mind.

If you are dancing with a woman in a club and the woman says..."hey let's go get blind drunk and see if we can fuck" ....that's one thing..but I have never given anyone any substance or liquid in an attempt to make them "loose" or more inclined to do something based on bad judgment.  In fact when meeting a woman in the company of others and reaching a mutual attraction that may lead to something physical it is ALWAYS a good idea to be open with the whole group as to yours and hers intentions. Get their names also.  People do a lot of things willingly that based on conditions you don't know anything about may get flaky when having to deal with the consequences later...like if he or she is married or has a jealous significant other. 

I've seen some very crazy conversations in a bar turn into more but be careful.  One girl I was dancing with used the line.."I'm so horny but my boyfriend won't fuck me because my pussy is too tight."  She was with two friends and acted single.  Really beautiful but a little ditsy and intoxicated.  So I said to her.."Wow !..so you have a tight pussy.  I can't imagine that being a problem....Well I believe I can help you out with that.  I live close by.  Let's go tell your friends we are leaving."  Of course as I am telling her that she is practically jacking me off out there on the dance floor.  It all worked out ok but that was definitely thin ice.  And ya she had an incredibly tight pussy.  It was very juicy though so the pressure was not uncomfortable.  I was not injured.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Barb said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence as to what parts of that are socialization, and what parts are actual wiring. Nature versus nurture. I believe it is a mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rogers and Hammerstein considered this one.  There is a song in "The King and I" called "Song of the King."  The King is pontificating on his double standard analysis of man's pursuit of woman.  At the close of the song, he says:
> 
> A girl must be like a blossom
> With honey for just one man.
> A man must be like honey bee
> And gather all he can.
> To fly from blossom to blossom
> A honey bee must be free,
> But blossom must not ever fly
> From bee to bee to bee.
> 
> I love that guy . . .
> 
> George
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, isn't that convenient...for men
Click to expand...


Apparently not, or they wouldn't ever get married.  But most of them do.

Do you think behaving the way the song prescribes for men would be more convenient for WOMEN?


----------



## Meister

Shadow said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> *When men dont want sex*
> 
> Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor and New York Times best-selling author, blogs about sex on Thursdays on The Chart. Read more from him at his website, GoodInBed.
> 
> *Not tonight, honey. I have a headache*. How many times has a guy heard that before? Husbands around the world are all too familiar with being sexually rejected. But now, more than ever, those words, (or some variation), are being expressed by men, to their female partners. While the conventional wisdom has been that its usually the woman in the relationship who inevitably loses interest in sex, the opposite is often true. Low male desire is at all-time high, and is likely to occur for any number of reasons:
> 
> When men don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used that one time with an ex live-in girlfriend after she hit me in the head with a glass of ice tea, then wanted make-up sex.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is with men,and dating women who bean them with glass objects?  Or Women who pull their arms out of sockets?  It the make up sex THAT good?
Click to expand...


No, not that good but it was easy....I'm not saying that I was the brightest star in the sky during that period.  I learned that after she had knifed me....changed the way I thought.


----------



## dilloduck

Meister said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used that one time with an ex live-in girlfriend after she hit me in the head with a glass of ice tea, then wanted make-up sex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is with men,and dating women who bean them with glass objects?  Or Women who pull their arms out of sockets?  It the make up sex THAT good?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, not that good but it was easy....I'm not saying that I was the brightest star in the sky during that period.  I learned that after she had knifed me....changed the way I thought.
Click to expand...


I might have dated her--did she ever throw whiskey bottles at ya ?


----------



## George Costanza

Barb said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence as to what parts of that are socialization, and what parts are actual wiring. Nature versus nurture. I believe it is a mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rogers and Hammerstein considered this one.  There is a song in "The King and I" called "Song of the King."  The King is pontificating on his double standard analysis of man's pursuit of woman.  At the close of the song, he says:
> 
> A girl must be like a blossom
> With honey for just one man.
> A man must be like honey bee
> And gather all he can.
> To fly from blossom to blossom
> A honey bee must be free,
> But blossom must not ever fly
> From bee to bee to bee.
> 
> I love that guy . . .
> 
> George
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, isn't that convenient...for men
Click to expand...


I don't judge.  I just report . . .


----------



## George Costanza

On this issue of men being wired differently than women when it comes to sex . . . 

Guy is talking to another guy.  He says: "Hey, I just found the best bar in the world.  You go in there, get free drinks and then you can go in the back and have all the sex you want."

Other guy says: "Holy cow!  Where is this place?"

First guy says: "I don't know.  My sister told me about it."


----------



## Meister

dilloduck said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is with men,and dating women who bean them with glass objects?  Or Women who pull their arms out of sockets?  It the make up sex THAT good?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not that good but it was easy....I'm not saying that I was the brightest star in the sky during that period.  I learned that after she had knifed me....changed the way I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I might have dated her--did she ever throw whiskey bottles at ya ?
Click to expand...


Never wasted any good whiskey, dillo but you may have dated her.


----------



## HUGGY

Meister said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> *When men dont want sex*
> 
> Ian Kerner, a sexuality counselor and New York Times best-selling author, blogs about sex on Thursdays on The Chart. Read more from him at his website, GoodInBed.
> 
> *Not tonight, honey. I have a headache*. How many times has a guy heard that before? Husbands around the world are all too familiar with being sexually rejected. But now, more than ever, those words, (or some variation), are being expressed by men, to their female partners. While the conventional wisdom has been that its usually the woman in the relationship who inevitably loses interest in sex, the opposite is often true. Low male desire is at all-time high, and is likely to occur for any number of reasons:
> 
> When men don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used that one time with an ex live-in girlfriend after she hit me in the head with a glass of ice tea, then wanted make-up sex.
Click to expand...


Wtf is make up sex?  That's crazy!  Where is the door?


----------



## Meister

Geeze, Huggy...haven't you ever lived life on the edge?


----------



## HUGGY

Meister said:


> Geeze, Huggy...haven't you ever lived life on the edge?



UH...Ya...like my whole life pretty much but hang out with a psychotic woman?  Not a chance.  No pussy is THAT good.  Would you hang out with a guy that threw glass objects at you or stabbed you?  The important thing to keep in mind is that there are several billion women out there.  If only one in a thousand is up to your standards that means that there are still several million available.


----------



## Meister

HUGGY said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> Geeze, Huggy...haven't you ever lived life on the edge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UH...Ya...like my whole life pretty much but hang out with a psychotic woman?  Not a chance.  No pussy is THAT good.  Would you hang out with a guy that threw glass objects at you or stabbed you?  The important thing to keep in mind is that there are several billion women out there.  If only one in a thousand is up to your standards that means that there are still several million available.
Click to expand...


The strange part was that all my male friends envied me.....until the knifing went down.


----------



## HUGGY

Meister said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> Geeze, Huggy...haven't you ever lived life on the edge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UH...Ya...like my whole life pretty much but hang out with a psychotic woman?  Not a chance.  No pussy is THAT good.  Would you hang out with a guy that threw glass objects at you or stabbed you?  The important thing to keep in mind is that there are several billion women out there.  If only one in a thousand is up to your standards that means that there are still several million available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The strange part was that all my male friends envied me.....until the knifing went down.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't be able to face my friends if I had a girlfriend that crazy.  People go to prison hanging around nut cases like that.  Someone like that is a liability.  I wonder why your friends envied you.


----------



## Meister

HUGGY said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> UH...Ya...like my whole life pretty much but hang out with a psychotic woman?  Not a chance.  No pussy is THAT good.  Would you hang out with a guy that threw glass objects at you or stabbed you?  The important thing to keep in mind is that there are several billion women out there.  If only one in a thousand is up to your standards that means that there are still several million available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The strange part was that all my male friends envied me.....until the knifing went down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be able to face my friends if I had a girlfriend that crazy.  People go to prison hanging around nut cases like that.  Someone like that is a liability.  I wonder why your friends envied you.
Click to expand...


You would have had to see her, Huggy.
The wrapping was priceless, the contents were spoiled


----------



## Lumpy 1

HUGGY said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> UH...Ya...like my whole life pretty much but hang out with a psychotic woman?  Not a chance.  No pussy is THAT good.  Would you hang out with a guy that threw glass objects at you or stabbed you?  The important thing to keep in mind is that there are several billion women out there.  If only one in a thousand is up to your standards that means that there are still several million available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The strange part was that all my male friends envied me.....until the knifing went down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be able to face my friends if I had a girlfriend that crazy.  People go to prison hanging around nut cases like that.  Someone like that is a liability.  I wonder why your friends envied you.
Click to expand...


T & A and looks .. would be my guess..


----------



## HUGGY

Meister said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meister said:
> 
> 
> 
> The strange part was that all my male friends envied me.....until the knifing went down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be able to face my friends if I had a girlfriend that crazy.  People go to prison hanging around nut cases like that.  Someone like that is a liability.  I wonder why your friends envied you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You would have had to see her, Huggy.
> The wrapping was priceless, the contents were spoiled
Click to expand...


Maybe it's me that's spoiled.  All of my steady girlfriends and wives have been drop dead gorgeous.  Sally(3yrs) took me on an Alaskan cruise on our first date. Her body would make you drool.  One of the cutest girls I've ever seen.  PERFECT tits. Huge and they totally defied gravity.  Somebody started a rumor on the ship that we were the King and Queen of Sweden...  The captain of the boat ate at our table.  We laughed our asses off.  Rhonda(5yrs) was runner up junior miss America.  Every time we went to a nice restaurant the owner would come over and give us a nice bottle of wine.  She was so beautiful that when we entered a room EVERY guy would just stop what he was doing and stare at her and many got slapped by their girlfriend right on the spot for acting like such fools.  A woman that knows she is attractive and can't keep her head is worthless...and in your case dangerous.  I had enough danger built into my life in the past...a woman like that would have got us both killed.


----------



## AquaAthena

*"When men dont want sex"*

It's time to look at yourself in a mirror??


----------



## Grace

You got knifed, meister?? omg.


----------



## waltky

Uncle Ferd says at some point...

... the hormones calm down...

... an' den men figger out...

... womens is more trouble dan dey's worth.


----------



## HUGGY

AquaAthena said:


> *"When men dont want sex"*
> 
> It's time to look at yourself in a mirror??



AA...I know you mean well and just wanna join the conversation but PUUULLEEEZZZ!!!!!

You have no business entering a conversation about the relative attractiveness of mere mortals.  Ya know how many people get a mirror looking back at them with your stunning beauty?  NOBODY!!!!  You are a vision...a dream.. beauty so out of reach that what most women, even the prettiest, try to achieve with make up and surgery is rude and obscene.
You have NO idea what a mere mortal sees or should see in a mirror.  Compared to you 99% of the women on this planet should just go ahead on and kill themselves.  They have no hope of remotely seeing what you see in a mirror.  And men?  What a man sees in a mirror when thinking of you is that he would happily die for your attention.  He doesn't see handsome or ugly..he sees in his own eyes the challenge to his own soul to be worthy of your favor.  He sees himself as already dead because that is what it will cost to be near you.

OK..truth be told I don't "know" you.  But I do know you.  Several of my women were you.  So beautiful that to be with you is beyond all riches and treasure.  So beautiful that Bill Gates envies the man in your company.  Kings desire you and queens look away from from the threat of your goddess light.

Ya..tell us again what we should see in a mirror.  That's rich.

You Goddesses are crazy!


----------



## Lumpy 1

HUGGY said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men don&#8217;t want sex"*
> 
> It's time to look at yourself in a mirror??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AA...I know you mean well and just wanna join the conversation but PUUULLEEEZZZ!!!!!
> 
> You have no business entering a conversation about the relative attractiveness of mere mortals.  Ya know how many people get a mirror looking back at them with your stunning beauty?  NOBODY!!!!  You are a vision...a dream.. beauty so out of reach that what most women, even the prettiest, try to achieve with make up and surgery is rude and obscene.
> You have NO idea what a mere mortal sees or should see in a mirror.  Compared to you 99% of the women on this planet should just go ahead on and kill themselves.  They have no hope of remotely seeing what you see in a mirror.  And men?  What a man sees in a mirror when thinking of you is that he would happily die for your attention.  He doesn't see handsome or ugly..he sees in his own eyes the challenge to his own soul to be worthy of your favor.  He sees himself as already dead because that is what it will cost to be near you.
> 
> OK..truth be told I don't "know" you.  But I do know you.  Several of my women were you.  So beautiful that to be with you is beyond all riches and treasure.  So beautiful that Bill Gates envies the man in your company.  Kings desire you and queens look away from from the threat of your goddess light.
> 
> Ya..tell us again what we should see in a mirror.  That's rich.
> 
> You Goddesses are crazy!
Click to expand...


I think even I'm in Love....


----------



## HUGGY

Lumpy 1 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men dont want sex"*
> 
> It's time to look at yourself in a mirror??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AA...I know you mean well and just wanna join the conversation but PUUULLEEEZZZ!!!!!
> 
> You have no business entering a conversation about the relative attractiveness of mere mortals.  Ya know how many people get a mirror looking back at them with your stunning beauty?  NOBODY!!!!  You are a vision...a dream.. beauty so out of reach that what most women, even the prettiest, try to achieve with make up and surgery is rude and obscene.
> You have NO idea what a mere mortal sees or should see in a mirror.  Compared to you 99% of the women on this planet should just go ahead on and kill themselves.  They have no hope of remotely seeing what you see in a mirror.  And men?  What a man sees in a mirror when thinking of you is that he would happily die for your attention.  He doesn't see handsome or ugly..he sees in his own eyes the challenge to his own soul to be worthy of your favor.  He sees himself as already dead because that is what it will cost to be near you.
> 
> OK..truth be told I don't "know" you.  But I do know you.  Several of my women were you.  So beautiful that to be with you is beyond all riches and treasure.  So beautiful that Bill Gates envies the man in your company.  Kings desire you and queens look away from from the threat of your goddess light.
> 
> Ya..tell us again what we should see in a mirror.  That's rich.
> 
> You Goddesses are crazy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think even I'm in Love....
Click to expand...


Maybe I was out O line... It is just so unnecessarily cruel when someone so beautiful whispers down from the heavens about mortals and mirrors.  Do you have any idea how hard it is to love a goddess like her? Been there done that.   She should just be unattainable even on the internet..out of reach ...a myth...  a rumor.  A woman so desirable is like the Hope Diamond.  All other stones are trinkets..bobbles.  She holds your spirit in her hands and with a careless motion ...a look not meant to injure crushes you flat as a pancake.  The Greeks had it right.  Gods..Goddesses and mortals should not mingle.


----------



## Grace

(Although AA is indeed very beautimus).


----------



## HUGGY

IMEURU said:


> (Although AA is indeed very beautimus).



SEE WHAT I MEAN!!!!!!!!

I get the boot and the Goddess STILL gets compliments!!!!!

Life is not fair...

That you in the Avie? Kinda cute...whatcha wearin?


----------



## Grace

Green leaves to match my green hair, of course.


----------



## HUGGY

IMEURU said:


> Green leaves to match my green hair, of course.



So the best time to see you is in the fall?

I'm a little concerned about the bird.   You do know that most of the influenza and other respiratory illness is brought into this country by birds...you know that right?


----------



## Grace

HUGGY said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Green leaves to match my green hair, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the best time to see you is in the fall?
> 
> I'm a little concerned about the bird.   You do know that most of the influenza and other respiratory illness is brought into this country by birds...you know that right?
Click to expand...


Spring, actually. Its my fav time of year. And no, thats not my avie. Is that you in yours?

The bird is fine. Its not real, ya know. Neither are the ones Im feeding in my sigline.


----------



## Lumpy 1

HUGGY said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> AA...I know you mean well and just wanna join the conversation but PUUULLEEEZZZ!!!!!
> 
> You have no business entering a conversation about the relative attractiveness of mere mortals.  Ya know how many people get a mirror looking back at them with your stunning beauty?  NOBODY!!!!  You are a vision...a dream.. beauty so out of reach that what most women, even the prettiest, try to achieve with make up and surgery is rude and obscene.
> You have NO idea what a mere mortal sees or should see in a mirror.  Compared to you 99% of the women on this planet should just go ahead on and kill themselves.  They have no hope of remotely seeing what you see in a mirror.  And men?  What a man sees in a mirror when thinking of you is that he would happily die for your attention.  He doesn't see handsome or ugly..he sees in his own eyes the challenge to his own soul to be worthy of your favor.  He sees himself as already dead because that is what it will cost to be near you.
> 
> OK..truth be told I don't "know" you.  But I do know you.  Several of my women were you.  So beautiful that to be with you is beyond all riches and treasure.  So beautiful that Bill Gates envies the man in your company.  Kings desire you and queens look away from from the threat of your goddess light.
> 
> Ya..tell us again what we should see in a mirror.  That's rich.
> 
> You Goddesses are crazy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think even I'm in Love....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe I was out O line... It is just so unnecessarily cruel when someone so beautiful whispers down from the heavens about mortals and mirrors.  Do you have any idea how hard it is to love a goddess like her? Been there done that.   She should just be unattainable even on the internet..out of reach ...a myth...  a rumor.  A woman so desirable is like the Hope Diamond.  All other stones are trinkets..bobbles.  She holds your spirit in her hands and with a careless motion ...a look not meant to injure crushes you flat as a pancake.  The Greeks had it right.  Gods..Goddesses and mortals should not mingle.
Click to expand...


No doubt, a classy and desirable Gal with all the charms any man would cherish in mind, body, heart and soul. Beware though.. to high on the pedestal and distance is to difficult to bridge... but eh.. not so bad to love the dream I suppose..

Sheesh.. you big gush ball romantic...


----------



## Grace

Huggy needs to be a romance novelist. All I was waiting for in his...um....commentary of AA's goddessness was him wanting to pierce her mount of venus with his manhood sword and spill his seed.


----------



## HUGGY

IMEURU said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Green leaves to match my green hair, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the best time to see you is in the fall?
> 
> I'm a little concerned about the bird.   You do know that most of the influenza and other respiratory illness is brought into this country by birds...you know that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spring, actually. Its my fav time of year. And no, thats not my avie. Is that you in yours?
> 
> The bird is fine. Its not real, ya know. Neither are the ones Im feeding in my sigline.
Click to expand...


Ya..That's me 5 years ago when I was in Honolulu for the Pro Bowl.  I don't see why everyone doesn't just post their own pic. The internet is too impersonal.  Ya..I saw your view on "trust"... I just don't care any more about trying to be coy.  I learned a long time ago that what will be will be.  Life is strange.  Back on topic...Just an hour ago I had a knock on the door(third floor room)..ODD..the place is locked up tight with a tall chain link fence.  It was a woman admirer..never seen her before.  She must have been watching me from afar.  Seriously..Ya know what she said after I asked her what she was doing there outside my door?  Get this..."I just want to touch you and make you happy".  Huh?  WTF?  This was one of those moments *when a man did not feel like sex.*  She was pretty and sexy but I mistook her for a hooker that got lost and wandered over a 7 foot chain link fence and three flights of stairs to get my attention.  I told her to leave ..very rudely I have to admit.  So when she finally left after I unlocked the gate  she gets in this nice new truck and threatens to drive through the fence...then said again.."I just wanted to touch you"...and drove away..  I guess she just wanted to touch me..

Now I feel bad because she really had to go to incredible lengths to get my attention and her reward was a rude asshole.

Life is strange.


----------



## Lumpy 1

IMEURU said:


> Huggy needs to be a romance novelist. All I was waiting for in his...um....commentary of AA's goddessness was him wanting to pierce her mount of venus with his manhood sword and spill his seed.



Well, sure enough.. that would  be some great readin...


----------



## HUGGY

Lumpy 1 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huggy needs to be a romance novelist. All I was waiting for in his...um....commentary of AA's goddessness was him wanting to pierce her mount of venus with his manhood sword and spill his seed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, sure enough.. that would  be some great readin...
Click to expand...


I am writer ya goofs!  I wrote a book called "The Pilot" about my smugglin days. ALL TRUE!!! I'll send ya both the passage about how I seduced a for real female FBI agent back in Virginia.  It's HOT!


----------



## Grace

I dont know whether to chuckle or roll my eyes, Huggy. But I do have to admit you are charismatic in a certain warped way. And you scare the bejesus outta me.


----------



## Grace

warped....wrong word. ENTERTAINING. Thats better. But ya still skeer me.


----------



## Grace

btw....most dont post their pics publicly because it IS the net. Some folks' cheese has slid off their cracker and nothing is worse than having a fruitloop having a pic of ya. I did post mine awhile back but removed them. I never leave pics up. Unless its in my private profile. Even then I get antsy with one online. Why? Because some have a tendency to steal pics, warp them into something gross, or worse..use them and try to pass themself off as that person.

Just sayin'.


----------



## Anachronism

AquaAthena said:


> *"When men dont want sex"*
> 
> It's time to look at yourself in a mirror??



Sometimes. More often in the mirror of the soul, rather than the mirror on the wall, though.



waltky said:


> ... womens is more trouble dan dey's worth.



In a lot of cases, you're totally right, waltky.



IMEURU said:


> btw....most dont post their pics publicly because it IS the net. Some folks' cheese has slid off their cracker and nothing is worse than having a fruitloop having a pic of ya. I did post mine awhile back but removed them. I never leave pics up. Unless its in my private profile. Even then I get antsy with one online. Why? Because some have a tendency to steal pics, warp them into something gross, or worse..use them and try to pass themself off as that person.



For some of us that's not a problem. When you have a face that shatters plexiglass, wrecks cameras and breaks petrified wood with a single strong stare, like I do, that's not too much of a problem. Not a whole lot of people out there stealing my photo for their facebook profile or anything like that.


----------



## The Gadfly

Anachronism said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men don&#8217;t want sex"*
> 
> It's time to look at yourself in a mirror??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes. More often in the mirror of the soul, rather than the mirror on the wall, though.
> 
> 
> 
> waltky said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... womens is more trouble dan dey's worth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a lot of cases, you're totally right, waltky.
> 
> 
> 
> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw....most dont post their pics publicly because it IS the net. Some folks' cheese has slid off their cracker and nothing is worse than having a fruitloop having a pic of ya. I did post mine awhile back but removed them. I never leave pics up. Unless its in my private profile. Even then I get antsy with one online. Why? Because some have a tendency to steal pics, warp them into something gross, or worse..use them and try to pass themself off as that person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For some of us that's not a problem. When you have a face that shatters plexiglass, wrecks cameras and breaks petrified wood with a single strong stare, like I do, that's not too much of a problem. Not a whole lot of people out there stealing my photo for their facebook profile or anything like that.
Click to expand...

Well now, it seems to me that you're in need of a little advice. Now our friend Huggy, here, is a real pro, but I can assure you, he didn't get there without a little practice. Neither did I. I know, right about now, you're asking yourself "How can I compete with guys like that?" Better than you might think. Of course, by his own account, he has certain advantages, with regard to looks, and so on. However, while the beautiful people do tend to flock to one another, I can tell you that those of us who are more frog than prince, can still manage to catch a princess, or two, or three.  I'm certainly no 6'4" Hollywood "hunk", and even in my younger days, I was a bit rough and tattered myself; stuff happens. In spite of that, when I was just a bit younger and single, I've gone up against Huggy's type in more than one bar, and come out with the girl, so it can be done. A lot of it is in the presentation, and while a lot of Huggy's basics still apply, there are some details we frogs can add to improve our odds. With that in mind, let's see if we can improve your morale a bit. Grace, if you and Athena and the other ladies here can chime in with the feminine perspective on these comments, please do so, it will be helpful.

Now, the first thing we need to do, is improve that dreadful confidence level of yours; faint heart never won fair maiden, and as the French say, whether in love or battle, _"L'Audace, l'Audace, toujours, l'Audace! _. Let's make the best of what you have first. Handsome or not , we can all be fit and trim, so if need be, slim down, and shape up. You can't do your best through a night in the sack if you're out of shape anyway, so that's objective number one.

Next, there's the wardrobe. Clothes don't totally make the man, but they help. The three piece suit, well-taiored, is a must, for those places it's needed, but you can be well packaged in a polo shirt, sport coat,  and chinos in more casual surroundings; well-pressed, and neat, of course, not slovenly. Your dress shoes should be properly shined, and not run down at the heels. I suggest you get your dress shirts with French cuffs, and wear cufflinks (I'lll explain why later). Do learn to wear black tie when appropriate; it looks good on almost all of us, is no trouble at all with practice, and the ladies like it; besides, it's become something of a lost art these days. In this connection, learn to hand tie the bowtie that goes with it; only a pimp in a cheap whorehouse would wear a clip-on tie. Always wear formal and dress trousers with suspenders, they hang better that way, and there's another reason we'll discuss later. It should go without saying, but personal hygiene is a must; shower before you go out, find a deodorant, and a cologne that suits you ( preferably something light, so as not to overwhelm the lady's perfume) and wear it. Remember,* the lady is the centerpiece*; your function (as a desirable accessory) is to make HER look stunning, and the center of attention!

No matter what your face looks like, find a good stylist, and get a haircut that suits you (it should look good, even if a bit windblown; you don't want to be fiddling with it). Consider a beard and/or mustache (neatly trimmed, of course) to cover imperfections. If at all possible, wear contacts instead of eyeglasses. Huggy's advice on sunglasses is good when you need them, a basic aviator style is usually best. Now that you look better, stand and walk like it; head up, eyes front, shoulders squared, confident walk, NO SLOUCHING! Do this until it becomes natural, not stiff or forced; it's called "bearing" and indicates confidence (which you should be starting to feel, now). The ladies spend considerable time fixing themselves up, and so, your date (or target, as the case may be), expects a modest effort on your part; do NOT disappoint her!

Now that we have you cleaned up, well dressed, and confident, I'll tell you in the next post what to do with that.


----------



## HUGGY

The Gadfly said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"When men dont want sex"*
> 
> It's time to look at yourself in a mirror??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes. More often in the mirror of the soul, rather than the mirror on the wall, though.
> 
> 
> 
> In a lot of cases, you're totally right, waltky.
> 
> 
> 
> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw....most dont post their pics publicly because it IS the net. Some folks' cheese has slid off their cracker and nothing is worse than having a fruitloop having a pic of ya. I did post mine awhile back but removed them. I never leave pics up. Unless its in my private profile. Even then I get antsy with one online. Why? Because some have a tendency to steal pics, warp them into something gross, or worse..use them and try to pass themself off as that person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For some of us that's not a problem. When you have a face that shatters plexiglass, wrecks cameras and breaks petrified wood with a single strong stare, like I do, that's not too much of a problem. Not a whole lot of people out there stealing my photo for their facebook profile or anything like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well now, it seems to me that you're in need of a little advice. Now our friend Huggy, here, is a real pro, but I can assure you, he didn't get there without a little practice. Neither did I. I know, right about now, you're asking yourself "How can I compete with guys like that?" Better than you might think. Of course, by his own account, he has certain advantages, with regard to looks, and so on. However, while the beautiful people do tend to flock to one another, I can tell you that those of us who are more frog than prince, can still manage to catch a princess, or two, or three.  I'm certainly no 6'4" Hollywood "hunk", and even in my younger days, I was a bit rough and tattered myself; stuff happens. In spite of that, when I was just a bit younger and single, I've gone up against Huggy's type in more than one bar, and come out with the girl, so it can be done. A lot of it is in the presentation, and while a lot of Huggy's basics still apply, there are some details we frogs can add to improve our odds. With that in mind, let's see if we can improve your morale a bit. Grace, if you and Athena and the other ladies here can chime in with the feminine perspective on these comments, please do so, it will be helpful.
> 
> Now, the first thing we need to do, is improve that dreadful confidence level of yours; faint heart never won fair maiden, and as the French say, whether in love or battle, _"L'Audace, l'Audace, toujours, l'Audace! _. Let's make the best of what you have first. Handsome or not , we can all be fit and trim, so if need be, slim down, and shape up. You can't do your best through a night in the sack if you're out of shape anyway, so that's objective number one.
> 
> Next, there's the wardrobe. Clothes don't totally make the man, but they help. The three piece suit, well-taiored, is a must, for those places it's needed, but you can be well packaged in a polo shirt, sport coat,  and chinos in more casual surroundings; well-pressed, and neat, of course, not slovenly. Your dress shoes should be properly shined, and not run down at the heels. I suggest you get your dress shirts with French cuffs, and wear cufflinks (I'lll explain why later). Do learn to wear black tie when appropriate; it looks good on almost all of us, is no trouble at all with practice, and the ladies like it; besides, it's become something of a lost art these days. In this connection, learn to hand tie the bowtie that goes with it; only a pimp in a cheap whorehouse would wear a clip-on tie. Always wear formal and dress trousers with suspenders, they hang better that way, and there's another reason we'll discuss later. It should go without saying, but personal hygiene is a must; shower before you go out, find a deodorant, and a cologne that suits you ( preferably something light, so as not to overwhelm the lady's perfume) and wear it. Remember,* the lady is the centerpiece*; your function (as a desirable accessory) is to make HER look stunning, and the center of attention!
> 
> No matter what your face looks like, find a good stylist, and get a haircut that suits you (it should look good, even if a bit windblown; you don't want to be fiddling with it). Consider a beard and/or mustache (neatly trimmed, of course) to cover imperfections. If at all possible, wear contacts instead of eyeglasses. Huggy's advice on sunglasses is good when you need them, a basic aviator style is usually best. Now that you look better, stand and walk like it; head up, eyes front, shoulders squared, confident walk, NO SLOUCHING! Do this until it becomes natural, not stiff or forced; it's called "bearing" and indicates confidence (which you should be starting to feel, now). The ladies spend considerable time fixing themselves up, and so, your date (or target, as the case may be), expects a modest effort on your part; do NOT disappoint her!
> 
> Now that we have you cleaned up, well dressed, and confident, I'll tell you in the next post what to do with that.
Click to expand...


All good advice.  I had a mustache in my twenties and thirties.  Had the Tom Selleck look DOWN!  

Ya confident LOOKING is real important.  Never sit at the bar.  Why? because your feet don't lay flat on the ground from a bar stool unless you are 6'8".  Sit in a chair and NEVER cross your legs. 

 No matter how "groovy" the music is NEVER tap your fingers or hands to the beat on your table or body.

Women ALWAYS check out your hands and feet.  Don't ask why.  You will find out later. 

If you spot a hottie in a club and she is sitting with a few other gals..introduce yourself to ALL of them with equal interest and ask their names.  Take note of what they are drinking and send them a round with your compliments..try to have the drinks delivered while you are dancing with miss hottie.   Don't be pushy.  Maintain your own spot until THEY offer for you to join them.  If they still seem friendly ask the ugliest girl to dance next.  That will force a response from miss hottie if she has any interest.  What she will see in that is that you are there to have a good time and you are not a snob.  

If the occasion arises help miss hottie or any other girl at the table to seat herself but ONLY after you just danced with them.  It's a nice touch.  A step higher than opening a door for a woman.  Don't make a big deal of it.  Do it like you are a waiter and it is expected of you as part of your job.  It is.  If she turns and says she would rather seat herself ..no big...just sit down and carry on like nothing happened.  Not every woman is used to being treated that way.  They all LOVE it when they are comfortable with it.

Every woman wants to be treated specially.  Be nice to ALL of them as long as you can stand to.  

If it doesn't work out after a good effort on your part do not give up.  Try to be aware of feedback you get so you can learn what makes a woman feel more comfortable and desirable and soon your batting percentage will be better than you have time to fulfill.


----------



## Anachronism

The Gadfly said:


> Well now, it seems to me that you're in need of a little advice. Now our friend Huggy, here, is a real pro, but I can assure you, he didn't get there without a little practice. Neither did I. I know, right about now, you're asking yourself "How can I compete with guys like that?" Better than you might think. Of course, by his own account, he has certain advantages, with regard to looks, and so on. However, while the beautiful people do tend to flock to one another, I can tell you that those of us who are more frog than prince, can still manage to catch a princess, or two, or three.  I'm certainly no 6'4" Hollywood "hunk", and even in my younger days, I was a bit rough and tattered myself; stuff happens. In spite of that, when I was just a bit younger and single, I've gone up against Huggy's type in more than one bar, and come out with the girl, so it can be done. A lot of it is in the presentation, and while a lot of Huggy's basics still apply, there are some details we frogs can add to improve our odds. With that in mind, let's see if we can improve your morale a bit. Grace, if you and Athena and the other ladies here can chime in with the feminine perspective on these comments, please do so, it will be helpful.



Oh, this ought to be REALLY good..... I'm generally told that I'm a great DATE and a terrible BOYFRIEND / RELATIONSHIP PARTNER.



The Gadfly said:


> Now, the first thing we need to do, is improve that dreadful confidence level of yours; faint heart never won fair maiden, and as the French say, whether in love or battle, _"L'Audace, l'Audace, toujours, l'Audace! _. Let's make the best of what you have first. Handsome or not , we can all be fit and trim, so if need be, slim down, and shape up. You can't do your best through a night in the sack if you're out of shape anyway, so that's objective number one.



I'm 5'-6" and weigh 153 lbs. I'm in the best shape of my life, and work out 4-5 times a week. I'm stronger, fitter, quicker, and have better stamina than any other time in my life. That's not a problem, thankfully.



The Gadfly said:


> Next, there's the wardrobe. Clothes don't totally make the man, but they help. The three piece suit, well-taiored, is a must, for those places it's needed, but you can be well packaged in a polo shirt, sport coat,  and chinos in more casual surroundings; well-pressed, and neat, of course, not slovenly. Your dress shoes should be properly shined, and not run down at the heels. I suggest you get your dress shirts with French cuffs, and wear cufflinks (I'lll explain why later). Do learn to wear black tie when appropriate; it looks good on almost all of us, is no trouble at all with practice, and the ladies like it; besides, it's become something of a lost art these days. In this connection, learn to hand tie the bowtie that goes with it; only a pimp in a cheap whorehouse would wear a clip-on tie. Always wear formal and dress trousers with suspenders, they hang better that way, and there's another reason we'll discuss later. It should go without saying, but personal hygiene is a must; shower before you go out, find a deodorant, and a cologne that suits you ( preferably something light, so as not to overwhelm the lady's perfume) and wear it. Remember,* the lady is the centerpiece*; your function (as a desirable accessory) is to make HER look stunning, and the center of attention!



The "black tie" or "dressed up" look is one thing that I can do pretty well. I generally go for the 2 piece rather than the 3 piece suit, and I've never even owned a pair of cufflinks. I used to have a job that required a tie every day. I can tie a tie without any problem. Never really been into suspenders, but then again they generally cause issues with the main accessory I do have when going out.... a gun. That does require a little more attention to what one is wearing and how one moves when dressed up. I've never really found a cologne that I terribly care for. 

The idea of the lady being the centerpiece of the evening is not a problem for me.



The Gadfly said:


> No matter what your face looks like, find a good stylist, and get a haircut that suits you (it should look good, even if a bit windblown; you don't want to be fiddling with it). Consider a beard and/or mustache (neatly trimmed, of course) to cover imperfections. If at all possible, wear contacts instead of eyeglasses. Huggy's advice on sunglasses is good when you need them, a basic aviator style is usually best. Now that you look better, stand and walk like it; head up, eyes front, shoulders squared, confident walk, NO SLOUCHING! Do this until it becomes natural, not stiff or forced; it's called "bearing" and indicates confidence (which you should be starting to feel, now). The ladies spend considerable time fixing themselves up, and so, your date (or target, as the case may be), expects a modest effort on your part; do NOT disappoint her!



I don't have enough hair left to style it. What small amount is left goes straight back and ever week I look a little more like a German monk. Facial hair is a disaster. It grows in red, and not a shade that is complimentary to the color of the birthmark. It looks AWFUL. I don't need glasses, thankfully. I have a couple pairs of sunglasses that I wear from time to time. My posture is decent, though not always perfect. I should probably put a little more time into my preparations, but most of the time these days I'm not hunting, so I don't bother.



The Gadfly said:


> Now that we have you cleaned up, well dressed, and confident, I'll tell you in the next post what to do with that.



I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## Anachronism

HUGGY said:


> Ya confident LOOKING is real important.  Never sit at the bar.  Why? because your feet don't lay flat on the ground from a bar stool unless you are 6'8".  Sit in a chair and NEVER cross your legs.
> 
> No matter how "groovy" the music is NEVER tap your fingers or hands to the beat on your table or body.
> 
> Women ALWAYS check out your hands and feet.  Don't ask why.  You will find out later.



I rarely sit at the bar. Generally the larger tv screens, which are better for viewing the game are not AT the bar. I generally look for an empty 2-4 person table somewhere in the area around the bar.  



HUGGY said:


> If you spot a hottie in a club and she is sitting with a few other gals..introduce yourself to ALL of them with equal interest and ask their names.  Take note of what they are drinking and send them a round with your compliments..try to have the drinks delivered while you are dancing with miss hottie.   Don't be pushy.  Maintain your own spot until THEY offer for you to join them.  If they still seem friendly ask the ugliest girl to dance next.  That will force a response from miss hottie if she has any interest.  What she will see in that is that you are there to have a good time and you are not a snob.



Generally I'm not looking for miss hottie. Miss hottie is generally the last person who is going to have anywhere near the personality or attitude that I'm looking for in a woman. I'm generally looking for the one who is as uncomfortable there as I am. The one whose dress is not too long but not too short. Who is probably being dragged out by her gf's or co-workers.

Probably not a bad idea on pay attention to the whole crowd, though my memory for names tends to kill me at times. I try not to act like "all that" at any time, so that's not a real big deal. 



HUGGY said:


> If the occasion arises help miss hottie or any other girl at the table to seat herself but ONLY after you just danced with them.  It's a nice touch.  A step higher than opening a door for a woman.  Don't make a big deal of it.  Do it like you are a waiter and it is expected of you as part of your job.  It is.  If she turns and says she would rather seat herself ..no big...just sit down and carry on like nothing happened.  Not every woman is used to being treated that way.  They all LOVE it when they are comfortable with it.



I've done that in the past with some very mixed reactions. Though you're right it's a step up from opening the door, and it does take a little practice.



HUGGY said:


> Every woman wants to be treated specially.  Be nice to ALL of them as long as you can stand to.



I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.



HUGGY said:


> If it doesn't work out after a good effort on your part do not give up.  Try to be aware of feedback you get so you can learn what makes a woman feel more comfortable and desirable and soon your batting percentage will be better than you have time to fulfill.



The problem being that the feedback is generally on my appearance, or my attitude/personality; two things that I really don't have much of an opportunity to change.


----------



## High_Gravity

Huggys advice on this thread is Aces, I concur with pretty much everything he said.


----------



## The Gadfly

OK, Anachronism, we've actually got a pretty good foundation here, You're in shape, you know how to dress; doesn't look like you're terribly shy; so actually we have a lot of positives to work from; so most of this is going to be fine-tuning some things.

Some little things: If the gun is a professional requirement you may not have much choice in what you carry; if you do, one of the smaller Glocks, or even a Walther PPK works in a shoulder holster, or perhaps even an ankle holster.

I had to look up S-W. How's you mobility? If that's OK, how about your dancing skills? If OK you could work on improving those, can't hurt.

Cologne-can you think of something you almost liked? Maybe we can work from there.
Hair-any chance you could use a hairpiece or weave; some they have now, you can even swim in; they've gotten better.

Now on to some more important issues. How about we take your appearance as what it is, and focus on personality and attitude. What have you gotten positive feedback on? Do you have a good sense of humor? Women love guys who can make them laugh. Have you got a quick wit?Can you put a woman at ease in conversation? Do you maintain eye contact when conversing? How are your converation skills-can you converse intelligently on a variety of subjects? I'm betting the answer on some of these are yes, so let's focus first,on what makes you a "great date", and see if we can polish those up just a bit. By the way, while there ARE shallow women, women generally look beyond the superficial better than we guys do. See, we frogs, have a prince inside, and the key is to get them focusing on that, instead of the frog exterior. It can be done. I have a friend who's totally blind, yet within five minutes of being around him, most people forget Chris can't see; he has them focused on what he's saying, not his eyes.The thing is, you want them to focus on YOUR strong points; if that's personality, that's where you want them to focus.

One more little thing. You should NEVER be "Not hunting". Of course you are. Even when not at a bar or a party, opportunities arise, and you want to be prepared for them. Don't laugh; I know one guy, who met his "dream girl" (now his wife), quite literally by bumping into her when he rounded a corner on a busy sidewalk. He helped her pick up some things she dropped, asked her to have a cup of coffee, and the rest, as they say, is historyAlways be ready...because you just never know.

Oh and by the way, the girl you think you want, out of a group of women, isn't your only target. Huggy's advice still applies. Approach her first; if she responds dance with her, buy them all a round, then dance with one of her friends. Don't obviously zero in on one right away; instead, spread some attention and conversation around the group, and watch her reaction. The key to the door to a woman's heart is often the comments of her friends Make them all feel special, and the focus of your attention, one at a time, while observing your primary target's body language. Look for things like leaning toward you when you speak, "preening gestures" like playing with her hair, and so on. Watch the others too; there's always the possibility the one you really want, is not the first one you picked out.


----------



## HUGGY

Anachronism said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya confident LOOKING is real important.  Never sit at the bar.  Why? because your feet don't lay flat on the ground from a bar stool unless you are 6'8".  Sit in a chair and NEVER cross your legs.
> 
> No matter how "groovy" the music is NEVER tap your fingers or hands to the beat on your table or body.
> 
> Women ALWAYS check out your hands and feet.  Don't ask why.  You will find out later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rarely sit at the bar. Generally the larger tv screens, which are better for viewing the game are not AT the bar. I generally look for an empty 2-4 person table somewhere in the area around the bar.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you spot a hottie in a club and she is sitting with a few other gals..introduce yourself to ALL of them with equal interest and ask their names.  Take note of what they are drinking and send them a round with your compliments..try to have the drinks delivered while you are dancing with miss hottie.   Don't be pushy.  Maintain your own spot until THEY offer for you to join them.  If they still seem friendly ask the ugliest girl to dance next.  That will force a response from miss hottie if she has any interest.  What she will see in that is that you are there to have a good time and you are not a snob.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Generally I'm not looking for miss hottie. Miss hottie is generally the last person who is going to have anywhere near the personality or attitude that I'm looking for in a woman. I'm generally looking for the one who is as uncomfortable there as I am. The one whose dress is not too long but not too short. Who is probably being dragged out by her gf's or co-workers.
> 
> Probably not a bad idea on pay attention to the whole crowd, though my memory for names tends to kill me at times. I try not to act like "all that" at any time, so that's not a real big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> I've done that in the past with some very mixed reactions. Though you're right it's a step up from opening the door, and it does take a little practice.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every woman wants to be treated specially.  Be nice to ALL of them as long as you can stand to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it doesn't work out after a good effort on your part do not give up.  Try to be aware of feedback you get so you can learn what makes a woman feel more comfortable and desirable and soon your batting percentage will be better than you have time to fulfill.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem being that the feedback is generally on my appearance, or my attitude/personality; two things that I really don't have much of an opportunity to change.
Click to expand...


Think Gorbachev.  That guy looked like he had the map of China tattooed on his head in red.  Still women found him attractive.

Ya the young ones are still looking for the guy that will spawn good looking children and provide for them to some extent.  If you are past the prime breeding years you don't have to look perfect.  Women still have dreams as they age into the mid 30's-40's plus..they are just different and more realistic than the baby makers. 

The women you might find most fun can be pretty...they have received the most attention so they have seen all the games.  

They want to wake up with someone they can feel comfortable with. 

They don't care about your balding head or blemishes as long as they are not directly attributable to bad hi-gene.  

Accentuate your best features.  A sincere smile...an infectious laugh... sensitive eyes.

Shave close and for gods sakes trim those eyebrows down a bit.  Don't forget nose and ear hair!  Pluck if necessary..but do it early on enough that you don't have red marks showing the damage from your maintenance.

Keep those nails clean and trimmed..a professional manicure is not a bad idea.  

A three piece suit is out of place in most sports bars...unless it is late and you could be coming from a place where it is more appropriate.  In which case it does make you stand out from the crowd in a good way.   The important part is that your clothes fit you well and that they are clean and don't look like you have been wearing them for a week straight.    Always check your clothing for B O BEFORE you put them on.  That's a deal killer and one that can ruin your chances in an establishment.  You might be surprised to discover a "scent" you have grown accustomed to is offensive to a stranger.


----------



## High_Gravity

HUGGY said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya confident LOOKING is real important.  Never sit at the bar.  Why? because your feet don't lay flat on the ground from a bar stool unless you are 6'8".  Sit in a chair and NEVER cross your legs.
> 
> No matter how "groovy" the music is NEVER tap your fingers or hands to the beat on your table or body.
> 
> Women ALWAYS check out your hands and feet.  Don't ask why.  You will find out later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rarely sit at the bar. Generally the larger tv screens, which are better for viewing the game are not AT the bar. I generally look for an empty 2-4 person table somewhere in the area around the bar.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally I'm not looking for miss hottie. Miss hottie is generally the last person who is going to have anywhere near the personality or attitude that I'm looking for in a woman. I'm generally looking for the one who is as uncomfortable there as I am. The one whose dress is not too long but not too short. Who is probably being dragged out by her gf's or co-workers.
> 
> Probably not a bad idea on pay attention to the whole crowd, though my memory for names tends to kill me at times. I try not to act like "all that" at any time, so that's not a real big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> I've done that in the past with some very mixed reactions. Though you're right it's a step up from opening the door, and it does take a little practice.
> 
> 
> 
> I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it doesn't work out after a good effort on your part do not give up.  Try to be aware of feedback you get so you can learn what makes a woman feel more comfortable and desirable and soon your batting percentage will be better than you have time to fulfill.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem being that the feedback is generally on my appearance, or my attitude/personality; two things that I really don't have much of an opportunity to change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Think Gorbachev.  That guy looked like he had the map of China tattooed on his head in red.  Still women found him attractive.*
> Ya the young ones are still looking for the guy that will spawn good looking children and provide for them to some extent.  If you are past the prime breeding years you don't have to look perfect.  Women still have dreams as they age into the mid 30's-40's plus..they are just different and more realistic than the baby makers.
> 
> The women you might find most fun can be pretty...they have received the most attention so they have seen all the games.
> 
> They want to wake up with someone they can feel comfortable with.
> 
> They don't care about your balding head or blemishes as long as they are not directly attributable to bad hi-gene.
> 
> Accentuate your best features.  A sincere smile...an infectious laugh... sensitive eyes.
> 
> Shave close and for gods sakes trim those eyebrows down a bit.  Don't forget nose and ear hair!  Pluck if necessary..but do it early on enough that you don't have red marks showing the damage from your maintenance.
> 
> Keep those nails clean and trimmed..a professional manicure is not a bad idea.
> 
> A three piece suit is out of place in most sports bars...unless it is late and you could be coming from a place where it is more appropriate.  In which case it does make you stand out from the crowd in a good way.   The important part is that your clothes fit you well and that they are clean and don't look like you have been wearing them for a week straight.    Always check your clothing for B O BEFORE you put them on.  That's a deal killer and one that can ruin your chances in an establishment.  You might be surprised to discover a "scent" you have grown accustomed to is offensive to a stranger.
Click to expand...


The thing about Gorbachev is he was a man of power and had  money so of course he will have women, women are attracted to power and success. Rapper Notorious B.I.G is another example, Gorbachev and Biggie broke with no money would have a hard time getting the women they did with their success and riches.


----------



## Cecilie1200

High_Gravity said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> I rarely sit at the bar. Generally the larger tv screens, which are better for viewing the game are not AT the bar. I generally look for an empty 2-4 person table somewhere in the area around the bar.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally I'm not looking for miss hottie. Miss hottie is generally the last person who is going to have anywhere near the personality or attitude that I'm looking for in a woman. I'm generally looking for the one who is as uncomfortable there as I am. The one whose dress is not too long but not too short. Who is probably being dragged out by her gf's or co-workers.
> 
> Probably not a bad idea on pay attention to the whole crowd, though my memory for names tends to kill me at times. I try not to act like "all that" at any time, so that's not a real big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> I've done that in the past with some very mixed reactions. Though you're right it's a step up from opening the door, and it does take a little practice.
> 
> 
> 
> I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem being that the feedback is generally on my appearance, or my attitude/personality; two things that I really don't have much of an opportunity to change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Think Gorbachev.  That guy looked like he had the map of China tattooed on his head in red.  Still women found him attractive.*
> Ya the young ones are still looking for the guy that will spawn good looking children and provide for them to some extent.  If you are past the prime breeding years you don't have to look perfect.  Women still have dreams as they age into the mid 30's-40's plus..they are just different and more realistic than the baby makers.
> 
> The women you might find most fun can be pretty...they have received the most attention so they have seen all the games.
> 
> They want to wake up with someone they can feel comfortable with.
> 
> They don't care about your balding head or blemishes as long as they are not directly attributable to bad hi-gene.
> 
> Accentuate your best features.  A sincere smile...an infectious laugh... sensitive eyes.
> 
> Shave close and for gods sakes trim those eyebrows down a bit.  Don't forget nose and ear hair!  Pluck if necessary..but do it early on enough that you don't have red marks showing the damage from your maintenance.
> 
> Keep those nails clean and trimmed..a professional manicure is not a bad idea.
> 
> A three piece suit is out of place in most sports bars...unless it is late and you could be coming from a place where it is more appropriate.  In which case it does make you stand out from the crowd in a good way.   The important part is that your clothes fit you well and that they are clean and don't look like you have been wearing them for a week straight.    Always check your clothing for B O BEFORE you put them on.  That's a deal killer and one that can ruin your chances in an establishment.  You might be surprised to discover a "scent" you have grown accustomed to is offensive to a stranger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The thing about Gorbachev is he was a man of power and had  money so of course he will have women, women are attracted to power and success. Rapper Notorious B.I.G is another example, Gorbachev and Biggie broke with no money would have a hard time getting the women they did with their success and riches.
Click to expand...


Well, it is a fact that men are biologically programmed to like qualities in a woman that translate to "can bear me healthy children".  Women are biologically programmed to like qualities in a man that translate to "can support and protect me and my offspring".  It's not a bad thing, so long as your intellect is capable of overriding your instinct when necessary.


----------



## HUGGY

High_Gravity said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> I rarely sit at the bar. Generally the larger tv screens, which are better for viewing the game are not AT the bar. I generally look for an empty 2-4 person table somewhere in the area around the bar.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally I'm not looking for miss hottie. Miss hottie is generally the last person who is going to have anywhere near the personality or attitude that I'm looking for in a woman. I'm generally looking for the one who is as uncomfortable there as I am. The one whose dress is not too long but not too short. Who is probably being dragged out by her gf's or co-workers.
> 
> Probably not a bad idea on pay attention to the whole crowd, though my memory for names tends to kill me at times. I try not to act like "all that" at any time, so that's not a real big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> I've done that in the past with some very mixed reactions. Though you're right it's a step up from opening the door, and it does take a little practice.
> 
> 
> 
> I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem being that the feedback is generally on my appearance, or my attitude/personality; two things that I really don't have much of an opportunity to change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Think Gorbachev.  That guy looked like he had the map of China tattooed on his head in red.  Still women found him attractive.*
> Ya the young ones are still looking for the guy that will spawn good looking children and provide for them to some extent.  If you are past the prime breeding years you don't have to look perfect.  Women still have dreams as they age into the mid 30's-40's plus..they are just different and more realistic than the baby makers.
> 
> The women you might find most fun can be pretty...they have received the most attention so they have seen all the games.
> 
> They want to wake up with someone they can feel comfortable with.
> 
> They don't care about your balding head or blemishes as long as they are not directly attributable to bad hi-gene.
> 
> Accentuate your best features.  A sincere smile...an infectious laugh... sensitive eyes.
> 
> Shave close and for gods sakes trim those eyebrows down a bit.  Don't forget nose and ear hair!  Pluck if necessary..but do it early on enough that you don't have red marks showing the damage from your maintenance.
> 
> Keep those nails clean and trimmed..a professional manicure is not a bad idea.
> 
> A three piece suit is out of place in most sports bars...unless it is late and you could be coming from a place where it is more appropriate.  In which case it does make you stand out from the crowd in a good way.   The important part is that your clothes fit you well and that they are clean and don't look like you have been wearing them for a week straight.    Always check your clothing for B O BEFORE you put them on.  That's a deal killer and one that can ruin your chances in an establishment.  You might be surprised to discover a "scent" you have grown accustomed to is offensive to a stranger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The thing about Gorbachev is he was a man of power and had  money so of course he will have women, women are attracted to power and success. Rapper Notorious B.I.G is another example, Gorbachev and Biggie broke with no money would have a hard time getting the women they did with their success and riches.
Click to expand...


Knowledge and moxie are also wealth and power.


----------



## High_Gravity

HUGGY said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Think Gorbachev.  That guy looked like he had the map of China tattooed on his head in red.  Still women found him attractive.*
> Ya the young ones are still looking for the guy that will spawn good looking children and provide for them to some extent.  If you are past the prime breeding years you don't have to look perfect.  Women still have dreams as they age into the mid 30's-40's plus..they are just different and more realistic than the baby makers.
> 
> The women you might find most fun can be pretty...they have received the most attention so they have seen all the games.
> 
> They want to wake up with someone they can feel comfortable with.
> 
> They don't care about your balding head or blemishes as long as they are not directly attributable to bad hi-gene.
> 
> Accentuate your best features.  A sincere smile...an infectious laugh... sensitive eyes.
> 
> Shave close and for gods sakes trim those eyebrows down a bit.  Don't forget nose and ear hair!  Pluck if necessary..but do it early on enough that you don't have red marks showing the damage from your maintenance.
> 
> Keep those nails clean and trimmed..a professional manicure is not a bad idea.
> 
> A three piece suit is out of place in most sports bars...unless it is late and you could be coming from a place where it is more appropriate.  In which case it does make you stand out from the crowd in a good way.   The important part is that your clothes fit you well and that they are clean and don't look like you have been wearing them for a week straight.    Always check your clothing for B O BEFORE you put them on.  That's a deal killer and one that can ruin your chances in an establishment.  You might be surprised to discover a "scent" you have grown accustomed to is offensive to a stranger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing about Gorbachev is he was a man of power and had  money so of course he will have women, women are attracted to power and success. Rapper Notorious B.I.G is another example, Gorbachev and Biggie broke with no money would have a hard time getting the women they did with their success and riches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Knowledge and moxie are also wealth and power.
Click to expand...


I am not saying it is not possible but a broke man has to put in more work than a guy who has his pockets right, I have seen guys living on friends coaches who pulled in women and had them paying for everything, it all depends how tight your game is.


----------



## HUGGY

High_Gravity said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing about Gorbachev is he was a man of power and had  money so of course he will have women, women are attracted to power and success. Rapper Notorious B.I.G is another example, Gorbachev and Biggie broke with no money would have a hard time getting the women they did with their success and riches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Knowledge and moxie are also wealth and power.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not saying it is not possible but a broke man has to put in more work than a guy who has his pockets right, I have seen guys living on friends coaches who pulled in women and had them paying for everything, it all depends how tight your game is.
Click to expand...


Women are expensive.  Entertaining is expensive.  I never advocate for "scamming" a meal ticket by playing women for money.  

I know times are tough ..but in these times one of the most attractive things one can do for themselves and for the perception they display is do whatever it takes to get a decent job before worrying about getting laid.

If you are truly desperate to have party money...grow some balls and rob a bank.

No...seriously.


----------



## High_Gravity

HUGGY said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Knowledge and moxie are also wealth and power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying it is not possible but a broke man has to put in more work than a guy who has his pockets right, I have seen guys living on friends coaches who pulled in women and had them paying for everything, it all depends how tight your game is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Women are expensive.  Entertaining is expensive.  I never advocate for "scamming" a meal ticket by playing women for money.
> 
> I know times are tough ..but in these times one of the most attractive things one can do for themselves and for the perception they display is do whatever it takes to get a decent job before worrying about getting laid.
Click to expand...


100% right, you won't lose any women chasing money.


----------



## The Gadfly

Women are attracted to power, and money and power are never too far apart; and you're right Huggy, women ARE expensive, but what that's really fine in life isn't? It just costs more to keep up a thoroughbred than a mule, but the thoroughbred is faster, and a hell of a lot more attractive to look at!

As for living off women, that's one of those items on my "don't ever" list with regard to the ladies. They are:

(1) NEVER use booze or drugs to get a woman into bed! Aside from legal ramifications, this is distinctly bad form, and besides, a drunk woman is a lousy lay.

(2) NEVER, EVER, use the THREE MAGIC WORDS to get a woman into bed. The THREE MAGIC WORDS are "I love you".  Women take them far more seriously than we do, so NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, use them unless you are completely sober, have thought about it, and are absolutely sure you mean it! This is the ultimate hook into female emotions, and women get extremely hurt, angry, and irrational, if they discover you didn't mean it. "Hell hath no fury....." BELIEVE IT!

(3) NEVER leech off a woman...EVER. That's disgraceful! You deserve to lose your "Man Card" for this one!

(4) NEVER kiss(or screw) and tell!  That's adolescent! Real men do not do this under any circumstances! I don't care if everyone around both of you "knows" you're sleeping together. Officially, you know nothing, you did nothing, and you say nothing! (If SHE wants to advertise it, fine, but YOU better not!)

(5) NEVER treat a lady as anything but a lady in public. Whatever you do in the bedroom, no matter how much of a freak or a whore she is there, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, she's a LADY!

(6) NEVER use a woman! They hate that! Get a reputation for it, and your romantic life is dead, anywhere in the immediate vicinity and possibly beyond; they do share information! Take good care of her needs, and you shall be rewarded; a thoroughly satisfied woman is the most giving creature known to man, and will do virtually ANYTHING to please you! Trust me on this one!

(7) NEVER put your hands on your woman except to love her, comfort her, or carry her to bed. No matter how angry you are, real men don't abuse a woman under any circumstances, EVER! Your Man Card will be permanently revoked for violating this one!


----------



## Cecilie1200

The Gadfly said:


> Women are attracted to power, and money and power are never too far apart; and you're right Huggy, women ARE expensive, but what that's really fine in life isn't? It just costs more to keep up a thoroughbred than a mule, but the thoroughbred is faster, and a hell of a lot more attractive to look at!
> 
> As for living off women, that's one of those items on my "don't ever" list with regard to the ladies. They are:
> 
> (1) NEVER use booze or drugs to get a woman into bed! Aside from legal ramifications, this is distinctly bad form, and besides, a drunk woman is a lousy lay.
> 
> (2) NEVER, EVER, use the THREE MAGIC WORDS to get a woman into bed. The THREE MAGIC WORDS are "I love you".  Women take them far more seriously than we do, so NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, use them unless you are completely sober, have thought about it, and are absolutely sure you mean it! This is the ultimate hook into female emotions, and women get extremely hurt, angry, and irrational, if they discover you didn't mean it. "Hell hath no fury....." BELIEVE IT!
> 
> (3) NEVER leech off a woman...EVER. That's disgraceful! You deserve to lose your "Man Card" for this one!
> 
> (4) NEVER kiss(or screw) and tell!  That's adolescent! Real men do not do this under any circumstances! I don't care if everyone around both of you "knows" you're sleeping together. Officially, you know nothing, you did nothing, and you say nothing! (If SHE wants to advertise it, fine, but YOU better not!)
> 
> (5) NEVER treat a lady as anything but a lady in public. Whatever you do in the bedroom, no matter how much of a freak or a whore she is there, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, she's a LADY!



I know some exceptions to this rule, but even with them, the key is to ALWAYS treat a woman like she's important.  It's amazing how fast a woman who gets a thrill from being a slave can turn on a man when she's not treated like a VALUED slave.



The Gadfly said:


> (6) NEVER use a woman! They hate that! Get a reputation for it, and your romantic life is dead, anywhere in the immediate vicinity and possibly beyond; they do share information! Take good care of her needs, and you shall be rewarded; a thoroughly satisfied woman is the most giving creature known to man, and will do virtually ANYTHING to please you! Trust me on this one!



And never, ever forget that WOMEN TALK TO EACH OTHER!  Mistreat one, and the rest of us will know about it in short order.



The Gadfly said:


> (7) NEVER put your hands on your woman except to love her, comfort her, or carry her to bed. No matter how angry you are, real men don't abuse a woman under any circumstances, EVER! Your Man Card will be permanently revoked for violating this one!



And do not tolerate a woman who thinks it's okay to abuse YOU, especially if she believes she should be able to do it and then hide behind the "men shouldn't hit women" thing.  It may look good in the movies for a woman to slap a man for insulting her, but in real ife, that shit don't fly.


----------



## Si modo

What 'men' don't want sex?

Never met one.

I'm confused.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Si modo said:


> What 'men' don't want sex?
> 
> Never met one.
> 
> I'm confused.



ALL men have times when they're just not in the mood.  Can you imagine getting horny while you're in the hospital, trying to pass kidney stones?


----------



## Si modo

Cecilie1200 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What 'men' don't want sex?
> 
> Never met one.
> 
> I'm confused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ALL men have times when they're just not in the mood.  Can you imagine getting horny while you're in the hospital, trying to pass kidney stones?
Click to expand...

Well, ya got me there.  LOL!

Brava!


----------



## xsited1

Cecilie1200 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What 'men' don't want sex?
> 
> Never met one.
> 
> I'm confused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ALL men have times when they're just not in the mood.  Can you imagine getting horny while you're in the hospital, trying to pass kidney stones?
Click to expand...


Nonsense.  Men would find a way to pass the kidney stone and have sex at the same time.


----------



## Si modo

xsited1 said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What 'men' don't want sex?
> 
> Never met one.
> 
> I'm confused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ALL men have times when they're just not in the mood.  Can you imagine getting horny while you're in the hospital, trying to pass kidney stones?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.  Men would find a way to pass the kidney stone and have sex at the same time.
Click to expand...

Or at a minimum, take a rain check.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Si modo said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ALL men have times when they're just not in the mood.  Can you imagine getting horny while you're in the hospital, trying to pass kidney stones?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.  Men would find a way to pass the kidney stone and have sex at the same time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or at a minimum, take a rain check.
Click to expand...


Well, yeah.  No one said not being in the mood at the moment precludes rainchecks.


----------



## The Gadfly

Cecilie, 
Was it rule #5 you "know of some exceptions to"? What would those be? I'm not sure I get where you're going with that.


----------



## Anachronism

The Gadfly said:


> OK, Anachronism, we've actually got a pretty good foundation here, You're in shape, you know how to dress; doesn't look like you're terribly shy; so actually we have a lot of positives to work from; so most of this is going to be fine-tuning some things.



All true, except possibly the last. Never been terribly good at approaching women. Probably has a lot to do with getting shot down so many times early in life.



The Gadfly said:


> Some little things: If the gun is a professional requirement you may not have much choice in what you carry; if you do, one of the smaller Glocks, or even a Walther PPK works in a shoulder holster, or perhaps even an ankle holster.



The gun is a lifestyle necessity. I don't go many place without it. Generally a compact semi-auto or small frame revolver. They all tuck in nicely to the hip, but it does limit clothing options to a certain degree. I'm not "deep" enough for a shoulder rig, and ankle holsters are a lot better in movies than in reality. I have started moving towards IWB (inside the waistband) holsters for at least one of the guns.



The Gadfly said:


> I had to look up S-W. How's you mobility? If that's OK, how about your dancing skills? If OK you could work on improving those, can't hurt.



My mobility is fine. As I said, I've got a minor case of it, thankfully. I can slow dance decently, but any sort of modern dancing, I'm so far out of my element it isn't even funny. 



The Gadfly said:


> Cologne-can you think of something you almost liked? Maybe we can work from there. Hair-any chance you could use a hairpiece or weave; some they have now, you can even swim in; they've gotten better.



I've got something around here somewhere (I have to find it again), but once that runs out I'll be back to square one, since I don't think it's made anymore. The hair is gonna be what it's gonna be. I don't have the time, energy, or money to fool around with that stuff.



The Gadfly said:


> Now on to some more important issues. How about we take your appearance as what it is, and focus on personality and attitude. What have you gotten positive feedback on? Do you have a good sense of humor? Women love guys who can make them laugh. Have you got a quick wit?Can you put a woman at ease in conversation? Do you maintain eye contact when conversing? How are your converation skills-can you converse intelligently on a variety of subjects? I'm betting the answer on some of these are yes, so let's focus first,on what makes you a "great date", and see if we can polish those up just a bit. By the way, while there ARE shallow women, women generally look beyond the superficial better than we guys do. See, we frogs, have a prince inside, and the key is to get them focusing on that, instead of the frog exterior. It can be done. I have a friend who's totally blind, yet within five minutes of being around him, most people forget Chris can't see; he has them focused on what he's saying, not his eyes.The thing is, you want them to focus on YOUR strong points; if that's personality, that's where you want them to focus.



The positive feedback generally comes on my dress, my attention to details, politeness, ability to carry on a conversation, and the attention that I pay to whomever I'm out with. The "friendship" qualities, if you will. 

What tends to kill me is the fact that I am upfront and honest about the fact that I'm looking for a long-term relationship, not some sort of casual dating thing, and that I'm something of a traditionalist/misogynist. I don't go out of my way to bring these things up, but when the topics do come up, I don't lie or tell half-truths about them either.  



The Gadfly said:


> One more little thing. You should NEVER be "Not hunting". Of course you are. Even when not at a bar or a party, opportunities arise, and you want to be prepared for them. Don't laugh; I know one guy, who met his "dream girl" (now his wife), quite literally by bumping into her when he rounded a corner on a busy sidewalk. He helped her pick up some things she dropped, asked her to have a cup of coffee, and the rest, as they say, is history. Always be ready...because you just never know.



My roommates met in a similar fashion. My parents were set up on a blind date by my uncle. I understand the concept. I just kind of have a hard time with this "hunter" mentality. Maybe it has something to do with not being able to bring home "dinner" over the years.



The Gadfly said:


> Oh and by the way, the girl you think you want, out of a group of women, isn't your only target. Huggy's advice still applies. Approach her first; if she responds dance with her, buy them all a round, then dance with one of her friends. Don't obviously zero in on one right away; instead, spread some attention and conversation around the group, and watch her reaction. The key to the door to a woman's heart is often the comments of her friends Make them all feel special, and the focus of your attention, one at a time, while observing your primary target's body language. Look for things like leaning toward you when you speak, "preening gestures" like playing with her hair, and so on. Watch the others too; there's always the possibility the one you really want, is not the first one you picked out.



Ok. I'll keep that in mind.



HUGGY said:


> Think Gorbachev.  That guy looked like he had the map of China tattooed on his head in red.  Still women found him attractive.



Gorby's tattoo is a backyard pond compared to my Atlantic Ocean. 



HUGGY said:


> Ya the young ones are still looking for the guy that will spawn good looking children and provide for them to some extent.  If you are past the prime breeding years you don't have to look perfect.  Women still have dreams as they age into the mid 30's-40's plus..they are just different and more realistic than the baby makers.



I'm past the prime breeding years. I'll be 37 in mid-July. They may be more realistic, but they're still looking for someone who holds the same ideals and isn't going to embarass them by being seen with them. 



HUGGY said:


> The women you might find most fun can be pretty...they have received the most attention so they have seen all the games.
> 
> They want to wake up with someone they can feel comfortable with.



True. The problem is that they're also likely the ones who have used their appearance to get ahead in business and other places. They're not generally the type who enjoy playing second fiddle to the guy in their life.



HUGGY said:


> They don't care about your balding head or blemishes as long as they are not directly attributable to bad hi-gene.



Hygeine isn't an issue for me, thankfully.



HUGGY said:


> Accentuate your best features.  A sincere smile...an infectious laugh... sensitive eyes.



Once I find a couple of decent features I'll keep that in mind.



HUGGY said:


> Shave close and for gods sakes trim those eyebrows down a bit.  Don't forget nose and ear hair!  Pluck if necessary..but do it early on enough that you don't have red marks showing the damage from your maintenance.
> 
> Keep those nails clean and trimmed..a professional manicure is not a bad idea.



I should shave a bit more often than I do, though "close" is a relative term since I have to use an electric razor. The eyebrows are a little better now than in the photo I posted a while back. Ear hair is something I have to deal with from time to time. With a face like mind I've just never really seen the point. I pay more attention to it when I'm going out, or if I have a woman in my life, but for the most part it's a waste of time for me.



HUGGY said:


> A three piece suit is out of place in most sports bars...unless it is late and you could be coming from a place where it is more appropriate.  In which case it does make you stand out from the crowd in a good way.   The important part is that your clothes fit you well and that they are clean and don't look like you have been wearing them for a week straight.    Always check your clothing for B O BEFORE you put them on.  That's a deal killer and one that can ruin your chances in an establishment.  You might be surprised to discover a "scent" you have grown accustomed to is offensive to a stranger.



I do need to go out and get some new clothes. I've lost over 50 lbs in the last 18 months, so there is a bit of wardrobe shopping that needs to be done. The problem being that I have absolutely ZERO style/fashion sense. I could be on one of those TV makeover shows when it comes to my everyday wear. It's generally slacks and either button-down flannel shirts, pull-over/sweatshirt type stuff, or polo shirts come the warmer weather with my hiking boots.


----------



## Anachronism

High_Gravity said:


> The thing about Gorbachev is he was a man of power and had  money so of course he will have women, women are attracted to power and success. Rapper Notorious B.I.G is another example, Gorbachev and Biggie broke with no money would have a hard time getting the women they did with their success and riches.



Success, Riches, and Power are three things that are not really part of my life. I make a decent living, but I'm never going to be a 6-figure earner or some high profile celebrity type. That's just not my personality, nevermind my luck.



Cecilie1200 said:


> Well, it is a fact that men are biologically programmed to like qualities in a woman that translate to "can bear me healthy children".  Women are biologically programmed to like qualities in a man that translate to "can support and protect me and my offspring".  It's not a bad thing, so long as your intellect is capable of overriding your instinct when necessary.



For me the "healthy children" thing isn't a big deal. I don't want kids. I'm too old to become a first-time parent and I would make a totally wretched father in this day and age. I'm really more interested in someone who takes care of themselves physically and who has a very similar mental viewpoint to my own. That's what's "sexy" to me.



HUGGY said:


> Knowledge and moxie are also wealth and power.



That really depends on the woman, Huggy. At least in my experience.


----------



## Anachronism

High_Gravity said:


> I am not saying it is not possible but a broke man has to put in more work than a guy who has his pockets right, I have seen guys living on friends coaches who pulled in women and had them paying for everything, it all depends how tight your game is.



That's the thing.... I'm not interested in "Game". I'm out there trying to get this thing done with Honesty, and Decency. Obviously that isn't working, but I really don't want to go down the "Game" road. In my experience "Game" tends to lead to people thinking you're somebody that you're not. I make a decent living. I'm not the type who saves every penny though. I don't mind spending money, but there has to be some sort of return on the investment.



HUGGY said:


> Women are expensive.  Entertaining is expensive.  I never advocate for "scamming" a meal ticket by playing women for money.
> 
> I know times are tough ..but in these times one of the most attractive things one can do for themselves and for the perception they display is do whatever it takes to get a decent job before worrying about getting laid.
> 
> If you are truly desperate to have party money...grow some balls and rob a bank.
> 
> No...seriously.



I've got a decent job. I make a little over $30 an hour on a straight 40 hour workweek. I do tend to spend more than I save. I'm a believer that "you can't take it with you". I've got no problem spending money on things, so long as there's a return on the investment. I'm not into throwing money around/away without getting something back in return.


----------



## Grace

The only advice I can give is for Anachronism to:

 throw away his "what Im looking for" list and burn any backup copies he may have.

Be himself. When he sees a woman he want to talk to, talk to her like shes someone he already knows. In short..be at ease.

Dont keep ragging on himself. He seems insecure on his looks. Women are like wolves. They can smell that insecurity and dont find it attractive.

You look the way you were intended to look from the genes of your parents, and their parents parents on down the line. Being eye candy is a plus, but it isnt the most important thing.

Hygene is important. So is clean teeth even if they are crooked. CLEAN is the key word.

Not seeing a pic of you, I cant give you tips, nor would even if you did post one. Dorky as it sounds, INSIDE far outweighs the OUTSIDE....except in certain scenarios ie morbidly obese where he cant even walk....or has rotten teeth...or extreme lack of hygene, etc.


----------



## Grace

And not all women are expensive. Ex tried very hard to get me to go with him to get a brand new pc for me. I declined. I dont want one. He tries to get me to go shopping with me to try to get me out of hermit mode. I refuse. I like being here at home. I like being who I am. I earned it. 
Jetsetters and active women CAN be expensive. But not all are.


----------



## FuelRod

Who knows?  They're deranged.


----------



## HUGGY

Anachronism said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, Anachronism, we've actually got a pretty good foundation here, You're in shape, you know how to dress; doesn't look like you're terribly shy; so actually we have a lot of positives to work from; so most of this is going to be fine-tuning some things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All true, except possibly the last. Never been terribly good at approaching women. Probably has a lot to do with getting shot down so many times early in life.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some little things: If the gun is a professional requirement you may not have much choice in what you carry; if you do, one of the smaller Glocks, or even a Walther PPK works in a shoulder holster, or perhaps even an ankle holster.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The gun is a lifestyle necessity. I don't go many place without it. Generally a compact semi-auto or small frame revolver. They all tuck in nicely to the hip, but it does limit clothing options to a certain degree. I'm not "deep" enough for a shoulder rig, and ankle holsters are a lot better in movies than in reality. I have started moving towards IWB (inside the waistband) holsters for at least one of the guns.
> 
> 
> 
> My mobility is fine. As I said, I've got a minor case of it, thankfully. I can slow dance decently, but any sort of modern dancing, I'm so far out of my element it isn't even funny.
> 
> 
> 
> I've got something around here somewhere (I have to find it again), but once that runs out I'll be back to square one, since I don't think it's made anymore. The hair is gonna be what it's gonna be. I don't have the time, energy, or money to fool around with that stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> The positive feedback generally comes on my dress, my attention to details, politeness, ability to carry on a conversation, and the attention that I pay to whomever I'm out with. The "friendship" qualities, if you will.
> 
> What tends to kill me is the fact that I am upfront and honest about the fact that I'm looking for a long-term relationship, not some sort of casual dating thing, and that I'm something of a traditionalist/misogynist. I don't go out of my way to bring these things up, but when the topics do come up, I don't lie or tell half-truths about them either.
> 
> 
> 
> My roommates met in a similar fashion. My parents were set up on a blind date by my uncle. I understand the concept. I just kind of have a hard time with this "hunter" mentality. Maybe it has something to do with not being able to bring home "dinner" over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. I'll keep that in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Gorby's tattoo is a backyard pond compared to my Atlantic Ocean.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm past the prime breeding years. I'll be 37 in mid-July. They may be more realistic, but they're still looking for someone who holds the same ideals and isn't going to embarass them by being seen with them.
> 
> 
> 
> True. The problem is that they're also likely the ones who have used their appearance to get ahead in business and other places. They're not generally the type who enjoy playing second fiddle to the guy in their life.
> 
> 
> 
> Hygeine isn't an issue for me, thankfully.
> 
> 
> 
> Once I find a couple of decent features I'll keep that in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shave close and for gods sakes trim those eyebrows down a bit.  Don't forget nose and ear hair!  Pluck if necessary..but do it early on enough that you don't have red marks showing the damage from your maintenance.
> 
> Keep those nails clean and trimmed..a professional manicure is not a bad idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I should shave a bit more often than I do, though "close" is a relative term since I have to use an electric razor. The eyebrows are a little better now than in the photo I posted a while back. Ear hair is something I have to deal with from time to time. With a face like mind I've just never really seen the point. I pay more attention to it when I'm going out, or if I have a woman in my life, but for the most part it's a waste of time for me.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> A three piece suit is out of place in most sports bars...unless it is late and you could be coming from a place where it is more appropriate.  In which case it does make you stand out from the crowd in a good way.   The important part is that your clothes fit you well and that they are clean and don't look like you have been wearing them for a week straight.    Always check your clothing for B O BEFORE you put them on.  That's a deal killer and one that can ruin your chances in an establishment.  You might be surprised to discover a "scent" you have grown accustomed to is offensive to a stranger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do need to go out and get some new clothes. I've lost over 50 lbs in the last 18 months, so there is a bit of wardrobe shopping that needs to be done. The problem being that I have absolutely ZERO style/fashion sense. I could be on one of those TV makeover shows when it comes to my everyday wear. It's generally slacks and either button-down flannel shirts, pull-over/sweatshirt type stuff, or polo shirts come the warmer weather with my hiking boots.
Click to expand...


I hope you don't think I am trying to be glib.  As far as the face thing...have you explored laser or other techniques to mitigate the color mismatch?  Hair can be "installed" quite successfully.  It is expensive but these issues seem serious to you and there are ways to correct much of it.  Your confidence IS at issue.  Seeing as how genealogy is not..as far as passing your dna on to an unsuspecting child..  I have to admit you have quite a mountain placed in your path.  It also appears you are level headed about the realities and make enough to invest in yourself to make the playing field more level.


----------



## Anachronism

The Gadfly said:


> Women are attracted to power, and money and power are never too far apart; and you're right Huggy, women ARE expensive, but what that's really fine in life isn't? It just costs more to keep up a thoroughbred than a mule, but the thoroughbred is faster, and a hell of a lot more attractive to look at!



Very true. However, the farmer has no use for a fast, pretty horse. He needs one that he can plow the field with, can take the kids for rides, and can pull the wagon to town. He doesn't want the thoroughbred or the mule. He wants the Norwegian Fjord... workmanlike, attractive, fun, and sensible all rolled into one.



The Gadfly said:


> (1) NEVER use booze or drugs to get a woman into bed! Aside from legal ramifications, this is distinctly bad form, and besides, a drunk woman is a lousy lay.



I don't drink much myself, so that one's not a big deal for me.



The Gadfly said:


> (2) NEVER, EVER, use the THREE MAGIC WORDS to get a woman into bed. The THREE MAGIC WORDS are "I love you".  Women take them far more seriously than we do, so NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, use them unless you are completely sober, have thought about it, and are absolutely sure you mean it! This is the ultimate hook into female emotions, and women get extremely hurt, angry, and irrational, if they discover you didn't mean it. "Hell hath no fury....." BELIEVE IT!



I don't really believe in romantic Love, so that's even less of an issue than #1.



The Gadfly said:


> (3) NEVER leech off a woman...EVER. That's disgraceful! You deserve to lose your "Man Card" for this one!



True. Very true. Though I will suggest that there are certain times and places where it is more than acceptable, and occasionally only right that she foots the bill for certain things.



The Gadfly said:


> (4) NEVER kiss(or screw) and tell!  That's adolescent! Real men do not do this under any circumstances! I don't care if everyone around both of you "knows" you're sleeping together. Officially, you know nothing, you did nothing, and you say nothing! (If SHE wants to advertise it, fine, but YOU better not!)



REALLY not my style. I'm not even a huge proponent of public displays of affection, so that's not something I have to worry much about.



The Gadfly said:


> (5) NEVER treat a lady as anything but a lady in public. Whatever you do in the bedroom, no matter how much of a freak or a whore she is there, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, she's a LADY!



True, so long as she acts like a Lady. If she's going to act like something other than a Lady in public, then all bets are off.



The Gadfly said:


> (6) NEVER use a woman! They hate that! Get a reputation for it, and your romantic life is dead, anywhere in the immediate vicinity and possibly beyond; they do share information! Take good care of her needs, and you shall be rewarded; a thoroughly satisfied woman is the most giving creature known to man, and will do virtually ANYTHING to please you! Trust me on this one!



Thankfully I've never been down that road. I've been used, but not the user. I do my best to meet the needs and desires of the Lady in my life (when there is one).



The Gadfly said:


> (7) NEVER put your hands on your woman except to love her, comfort her, or carry her to bed. No matter how angry you are, real men don't abuse a woman under any circumstances, EVER! Your Man Card will be permanently revoked for violating this one!



This one we will have to disagree on to a certain degree. I agree that abuse is beyond the limits of acceptability, but I come from a slightly older mentality where appropriate level of discipline need to be maintained throughout the home. Sometimes that means a certain level of physical discipline is necessary. Not abuse, but discipline. It's also something that as a relationship goes on, I try to explain and make clear to potential long-term partners.




Cecilie1200 said:


> I know some exceptions to this rule, but even with them, the key is to ALWAYS treat a woman like she's important.  It's amazing how fast a woman who gets a thrill from being a slave can turn on a man when she's not treated like a VALUED slave.



Very true, Cecilie. It has to always be a partnership. Maybe not a 50/50 partnership, but both sides always have a value. When one stops seeing that in another it's time to part company. That's a large part of why my living arrangement will be changing soon.



Cecilie1200 said:


> And never, ever forget that WOMEN TALK TO EACH OTHER!  Mistreat one, and the rest of us will know about it in short order.



True. Though all too often you ladies seem to focus solely on the negatives in the men in your lives and very rarely let your girlfriends know about their good points. Especially at the end of a relationship. If he screwed up one thing out of fifteen items in the relationship, that seems to be all you Ladies focus on when talking to each other.



Cecilie1200 said:


> And do not tolerate a woman who thinks it's okay to abuse YOU, especially if she believes she should be able to do it and then hide behind the "men shouldn't hit women" thing.  It may look good in the movies for a woman to slap a man for insulting her, but in real ife, that shit don't fly.



My father taught me a simple lesson.... "You never strike the first blow to a woman in anger. However, if she chooses to throw the first blow, ALL BETS ARE OFF."


----------



## Anachronism

IMEURU said:


> throw away his "what Im looking for" list and burn any backup copies he may have.
> 
> Be himself. When he sees a woman he want to talk to, talk to her like shes someone he already knows. In short..be at ease.



Believe it or not, this is the shortened, more open-minded version of the list. It used to be a lot longer and much more stringent than it is these days. Besides, most of what I'm looking for has more to do with finding the sort of woman who is going to be able to put up with me than anything else. I'm not a big believer in Romantic Love, if that explains it a little better.

Being at ease around people is NOT easy for me. I live my life constantly expecting the worst. I'm a die hard pesimist and have been for three decades now. Especially when it comes to women.



IMEURU said:


> Dont keep ragging on himself. He seems insecure on his looks. Women are like wolves. They can smell that insecurity and dont find it attractive.
> 
> You look the way you were intended to look from the genes of your parents, and their parents parents on down the line. Being eye candy is a plus, but it isnt the most important thing.



There's being average, and then there's being unique, IREURU. I fall into the latter category, and not necessarily in a good way. People don't ever forget having seen me. Then again, considering there are probably less than 1,000 men in the United States who have a face like mine, that shouldn't be a surprise. I could spend an hour just sitting here typing the derogatory names/labels/comments that have been made about my face over the years. I'll simply go straight to the top of the list and leave you with one... "I'd rather date and mate with MY DOG, than with someone who looks like you." (she then slammed the door in my face, thus ending our blind date before it even started).



IMEURU said:


> Hygene is important. So is clean teeth even if they are crooked. CLEAN is the key word.
> 
> Not seeing a pic of you, I cant give you tips, nor would even if you did post one. Dorky as it sounds, INSIDE far outweighs the OUTSIDE....except in certain scenarios ie morbidly obese where he cant even walk....or has rotten teeth...or extreme lack of hygene, etc.



My teeth all come out at night. Full upper and lower plate dentures. Another wonderful present from the birthmark. 

I really wish that I could believe the "Inside outweight Outside" line, IMEURU. I really wish I could. It's just that my experience over the years tells me differently. 



IMEURU said:


> And not all women are expensive. Ex tried very hard to get me to go with him to get a brand new pc for me. I declined. I dont want one. He tries to get me to go shopping with me to try to get me out of hermit mode. I refuse. I like being here at home. I like being who I am. I earned it. Jetsetters and active women CAN be expensive. But not all are.



True. Not all women are expensive. At least not in the way you're talking about. However, courting and romancing a woman is not a cheap experience. Not if you want to do it right. Just as most guys will never understand how much the ladies shell out for Prom Night, there are a lot of ladies who I don't think quite realize how expensive 2-3 nights out a week can be. Not even always in terms of strictly money, either. Rearranging schedules, missing out on other things, etc... also come into play. Now obviously he has to make a decision on what is more important to him, but when her only free time on the weekend is Saturday afternoons and he's a huge college football fan, fall weekends can be tough.



HUGGY said:


> I hope you don't think I am trying to be glib.  As far as the face thing...have you explored laser or other techniques to mitigate the color mismatch?  Hair can be "installed" quite successfully.  It is expensive but these issues seem serious to you and there are ways to correct much of it.  Your confidence IS at issue.  Seeing as how genealogy is not..as far as passing your dna on to an unsuspecting child..  I have to admit you have quite a mountain placed in your path.  It also appears you are level headed about the realities and make enough to invest in yourself to make the playing field more level.



Not glib at all, HUGGY. 

The type of birthmark and the deepness of the color do not lend itself to the current array of laser techniques. Especially since the chance of scarring and the amount of time it would take to get anything done (probably 3-4 years worth of treatments on a birthmark my size) would make it unrealistic. Besides, even if I could wake up tomorrow and have it gone permanently, I'd look in the mirror and not know who that person was. I HAVE had two surgeries to reduce some of the enlargement of the nose. In fact the second one was just two weeks ago. That has worked nicely, thankfully.

The hair thing is mostly a matter of expense. I just can't see the sense in spending thousands of dollars to have something like that done.

My confidence will probably always be an issue. After almost 37 years of being the odd person, the one who all the girls like as a friend, but who is never good enough to be the boyfriend, I'm not really sure the issue will ever fully go away. It is going to take a very special and saintly woman to be willing to spend her life with me. I've known that for a very long time.


----------



## HUGGY

OK...now on to some housekeeping.  I thought I was supposed to be on your ignore list!!!  WTF???     

Good luck finding that saint...  Try Church based on line dating.  You can get a chance to display your personality and prepare the gal for your face.  If she likes you and then see's a pic and is still interested you are well ahead.


----------



## Grace

Well, the more I read, the more I dont think you are looking for a mate at all. You want a Little house On The Prairie woman what will pull the plow, feed the chickens, wash the clothes in the water trough outside, stable the horses, clean the stalls then run in at dinner time to make sure you have a nice hot meal she just made from scratch that she grew herself in your garden (I say you, because it sure wouldnt be hers from what Ive gathered so far), have a nice hot drawn bath she heated the water from the fireplace she stoked and make sure your pipe is stuffed with tobaccy and your slippers on your feet after giving them a good massage with Bagbalm that was used on the cows in the barn. And for those efforts, she doesnt get a kiss, a hug, told she is loved and appreciated. Its her job as your mate. And shes nothing more.

Good luck in your hunt, dude.


----------



## The Gadfly

Ok, then from the top
"Never been good at approaching women"
In that case, we need to get you doing it until you get some more confidence in doing so. A little success will do wonders for that.

The gun-IWB it is, with whatever fits you most comfortably.

"I can slow dance decently, but..." Two words-dance lessons. Invest in yourself.

"I've got something(cologne) around here somewhere" Find it, see if you still like it; maybe I can suggest something similar to try.

"...I'm upfront and honest about looking for a long term relationship...and that I'm something of a misogynist/ traditionalist" That, we might have to temporarily modify; could just be, you're spooking some potential candidates for that by going straight for it from the beginning. Most of these women are used to guys not wanting to commit, so when they get the opposite, that might be making them uncomfortable. BTW, what age women we talking about? Early to mid thirties, maybe? You might have to get to your goal by degrees, rather than in one fell swoop. You sure you want the June Cleaver type? Could you deal with more of an equal, rather than a subordinate?

"I have a problem with this hunter mentality concept...." Because so far, it hasn't worked? . Never mind that; remember, you only have to get lucky ONCE....

The clothes I can help you with warmer season-Chinos (khakis), polo shirt (several colors), button-down, long-sleeve cotton oxford cloth shirts (I suggest the traditional light blue), sleeves rolled up to  the elbow for a more casual look, topped with a sportcoat on cooler evenings. Three piece suit for dressier surroundings, . Shoes, 1 pair dress loafers-brown or cordovan, 1 or 2 pair penny loafers or similar casual shoes-rotate these daily. Socks, khaki or black crew type, black or dark brown dress socks for dress shoes (with suit).. Cooler months-replace khakis with british tan cavlry twill trousers, or grey wool flannel trousersLong-sleeve cotton oxford shirts (flannels get to looking sloppy) topped with sweater, and outer jacket (Filson or Barber wax cotton jacket would be good in all weather, and will last a lifetime.) You're slim, so your trousers should be flat--front (no pleats) enough socks and underwear for at least a daily change, plus a change for the evening.Kepp the trousers and shirts neatly pressed. This look id basic classic, and should suit youI think I'd suggest a mid gray or navy suit, possibly with a vertical pinstripe (makes you look taller. No horizontal patternsDress shirts for suit-plain collar, light or French blue, French cuffs. Again basic classic, never out of style. Ties-relatively narrow (current style, several colors, simple club pattern or solid (No stripes with pinstripe suit!) That should work.

How's that, for a beginning?


----------



## The Gadfly

IMEURU said:


> Well, the more I read, the more I dont think you are looking for a mate at all. You want a Little house On The Prairie woman what will pull the plow, feed the chickens, wash the clothes in the water trough outside, stable the horses, clean the stalls then run in at dinner time to make sure you have a nice hot meal she just made from scratch that she grew herself in your garden (I say you, because it sure wouldnt be hers from what Ive gathered so far), have a nice hot drawn bath she heated the water from the fireplace she stoked and make sure your pipe is stuffed with tobaccy and your slippers on your feet after giving them a good massage with Bagbalm that was used on the cows in the barn. And for those efforts, she doesnt get a kiss, a hug, told she is loved and appreciated. Its her job as your mate. And shes nothing more.
> 
> Good luck in your hunt, dude.



Easy, Grace,
He's had a rough hill to climb. Let's see if we can square him away a little, and see if any of his wants are amenable to change.

BTW, sending you a PM


----------



## HUGGY

OK...this may sound out of place but????.......

Get all dressed up to the nines and paint black squares on all the red in diagonals.  You walk up to the gal in a bar and with a straight face  ..a poker face...with a calm demeanor ask her deadpan......"do ya want to play checkers?".   OK..OK..It's a long shot!  But Hey!  If it works you've found your gal!  This may take more than one try....


----------



## Anachronism

IMEURU said:


> Well, the more I read, the more I dont think you are looking for a mate at all. You want a Little house On The Prairie woman what will pull the plow, feed the chickens, wash the clothes in the water trough outside, stable the horses, clean the stalls then run in at dinner time to make sure you have a nice hot meal she just made from scratch that she grew herself in your garden (I say you, because it sure wouldnt be hers from what Ive gathered so far), have a nice hot drawn bath she heated the water from the fireplace she stoked and make sure your pipe is stuffed with tobaccy and your slippers on your feet after giving them a good massage with Bagbalm that was used on the cows in the barn. And for those efforts, she doesnt get a kiss, a hug, told she is loved and appreciated. Its her job as your mate. And shes nothing more.



I can definitely see how you would come to that conclusion. I'm not even going to deny that there are some parts of it that are correct. I am definitely looking for a much more Traditional woman than most women today tend to be. You've gone more than a little over the top with your description, though. 

Yes, the domestic chores are more a part of the female role so far as I'm concerned, but I have no interest in living on a farm, the garden would most definitely be hers (I have a black thumb), and I'm more than capable of taking a shower by myself with the hot and cold running water in the bathroom. In return she gets financially and emotionally supported, and does not have to deal with the unpleasantness of the outside world if she doesn't want to.

I really don't believe in romantic love because I can honestly say that at almost 37 years old, I've never experienced it. Not from my end or towards me by someone else. I would love to be proven wrong, but until I actually experience the sensation, I have a hard time believing it actually exists. That does not mean that there shouldn't be an emotional and physical bond between two people in a relationship.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> What tends to kill me is the fact that I am upfront and honest about the fact that I'm looking for a long-term relationship, not some sort of casual dating thing, and that I'm something of a traditionalist/*misogynist*.


 
Umm ... you might want to rethink that attitude if you're serious about having a relationship with a woman.


----------



## Grace

Im sorry if I offended you with my bluntness, anachronism, but maybe what you think and what you say is what is turning women away? I have no clue. But I DO wish for you to experience love in the way you have not found. Yet. Youre only 37. In your prime.
Im no Gods Gift to Men, but I can pull an engine with or without the bellhousing intact (easier with it in...all one whack as long as you aim correctly and turn here and there), I can build a room, I can put up fences, I can climb trees (ask Lumpy, lol), I have a brain that functions quite well, a great problem solver, dont much like sex cuz I forgot what its all about (my choice) and am pretty much secure in who I am and what I can do...or choose to do. Im old enough to be your ma...so Im telling you like a ma would....take down your armor, toss the list, and open your heart. Youll get stabbed, yes. But being stabbed is at least feeling. You are shutting yourself off and its coming across to women. Like you have a big ol note on your shirt that says DISS ME! I KNOW YOU WILL! Take it off. Because someone IS out there. You just havent found her yet. Stop looking. And she might find YOU.


----------



## Grace

Anguille said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tends to kill me is the fact that I am upfront and honest about the fact that I'm looking for a long-term relationship, not some sort of casual dating thing, and that I'm something of a traditionalist/*misogynist*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm ... you might want to rethink that attitude if you're serious about having a relationship with a woman.
Click to expand...


Yeah. That part is what threw me for a loop. Misogynists DO NOT LIKE WOMEN. So describing yourself as that is totally.....weird.


----------



## HUGGY

IMEURU said:


> Im sorry if I offended you with my bluntness, anachronism, but maybe what you think and what you say is what is turning women away? I have no clue. But I DO wish for you to experience love in the way you have not found. Yet. Youre only 37. In your prime.
> Im no Gods Gift to Men, but I can pull an engine with or without the bellhousing intact (easier with it in...all one whack as long as you aim correctly and turn here and there), I can build a room, I can put up fences, I can climb trees (ask Lumpy, lol), I have a brain that functions quite well, a great problem solver, dont much like sex cuz I forgot what its all about (my choice) and am pretty much secure in who I am and what I can do...or choose to do. Im old enough to be your ma...so Im telling you like a ma would....take down your armor, toss the list, and *open your heart. Youll get stabbed, yes. But being stabbed is at least feeling.* You are shutting yourself off and its coming across to women. Like you have a big ol note on your shirt that says DISS ME! I KNOW YOU WILL! Take it off. Because someone IS out there. You just havent found her yet. Stop looking. And she might find YOU.



Now who is being Skeery??????


----------



## Grace

HUGGY said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im sorry if I offended you with my bluntness, anachronism, but maybe what you think and what you say is what is turning women away? I have no clue. But I DO wish for you to experience love in the way you have not found. Yet. Youre only 37. In your prime.
> Im no Gods Gift to Men, but I can pull an engine with or without the bellhousing intact (easier with it in...all one whack as long as you aim correctly and turn here and there), I can build a room, I can put up fences, I can climb trees (ask Lumpy, lol), I have a brain that functions quite well, a great problem solver, dont much like sex cuz I forgot what its all about (my choice) and am pretty much secure in who I am and what I can do...or choose to do. Im old enough to be your ma...so Im telling you like a ma would....take down your armor, toss the list, and *open your heart. Youll get stabbed, yes. But being stabbed is at least feeling.* You are shutting yourself off and its coming across to women. Like you have a big ol note on your shirt that says DISS ME! I KNOW YOU WILL! Take it off. Because someone IS out there. You just havent found her yet. Stop looking. And she might find YOU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now who is being Skeery??????
Click to expand...


Sorry.


----------



## Anachronism

The Gadfly said:


> In that case, we need to get you doing it until you get some more confidence in doing so. A little success will do wonders for that.[/qoute]
> 
> True. The other part of it being that I'm not really often in situations where I'm around a lot of single women, which obviously doesn't help things a whole lot either.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I can slow dance decently, but..." Two words-dance lessons. Invest in yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I'm not sure I could fit them into the schedule, but it's something I'll keep in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Find it, see if you still like it; maybe I can suggest something similar to try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's called "Stampede". Apparently made by a company called "Annie Oakley" in Ligonier, IN. I got it at a tack shop (equine equipment) probably 5-6 years ago. The ladies seem to like the smell of it.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> That, we might have to temporarily modify; could just be, you're spooking some potential candidates for that by going straight for it from the beginning. Most of these women are used to guys not wanting to commit, so when they get the opposite, that might be making them uncomfortable. BTW, what age women we talking about? Early to mid thirties, maybe? You might have to get to your goal by degrees, rather than in one fell swoop. You sure you want the June Cleaver type? Could you deal with more of an equal, rather than a subordinate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We're talking late twenties/early thirties through late thirties in age. I'm sure that in some cases I am spooking some women with the idea that what I'm looking for is a relationship, not a one-night stand, or a casual dating arrangement. However, at my age I really can't afford to waste a whole lot more time.
> 
> As for the June Cleaver thing... I have always been a believer that there has to be one person in charge of any endeavour. Someone who holds the responsibility of making those final decisions and taking the blame when things go wrong. It doesn't mean they don't take other people's opinions into account, but when the decision has to be made, someone has to have the Veto power or a lot of votes end up 1 - 1. Whether that split is 65/35 or 52/48 or 100/0 really ends up depending on the individuals involved. But in my experience 50/50 does not work.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because so far, it hasn't worked? . Never mind that; remember, you only have to get lucky ONCE....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Luck is not something I've ever had much success with.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> The clothes I can help you with warmer season-Chinos (khakis), polo shirt (several colors), button-down, long-sleeve cotton oxford cloth shirts (I suggest the traditional light blue), sleeves rolled up to  the elbow for a more casual look, topped with a sportcoat on cooler evenings. Three piece suit for dressier surroundings, . Shoes, 1 pair dress loafers-brown or cordovan, 1 or 2 pair penny loafers or similar casual shoes-rotate these daily. Socks, khaki or black crew type, black or dark brown dress socks for dress shoes (with suit)..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually have most of that already. Some of it needs to be replaced due to wear and sizing issues. Loafers don't work on my feet, they're too narrow and I have no heel. I tend to wear my hiking boots a lot and have two pairs (black and brown) of dress shoes that I'll wear when I dress up.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cooler months-replace khakis with british tan cavlry twill trousers, or grey wool flannel trousersLong-sleeve cotton oxford shirts (flannels get to looking sloppy) topped with sweater, and outer jacket (Filson or Barber wax cotton jacket would be good in all weather, and will last a lifetime.) You're slim, so your trousers should be flat--front (no pleats) enough socks and underwear for at least a daily change, plus a change for the evening.Kepp the trousers and shirts neatly pressed. This look id basic classic, and should suit youI think I'd suggest a mid gray or navy suit, possibly with a vertical pinstripe (makes you look taller. No horizontal patternsDress shirts for suit-plain collar, light or French blue, French cuffs. Again basic classic, never out of style. Ties-relatively narrow (current style, several colors, simple club pattern or solid (No stripes with pinstripe suit!) That should work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll have to look into the trousers. Outside of that, I have a fair amount of what you're suggesting. I think I've got 4 sportscoats or suit jackets right now. Two grey, one black, and one khaki. Probably have to replace a couple of the sweaters with newer, lighter styles. Ties are not a problem. I've got a drawerful and they're a pretty good variety. Not a lot of real narrow ones though.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> How's that, for a beginning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a good start. I'm going to be sorting clothing in the next 4-6 weeks anyway so I'll be trying to keep this all in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's had a rough hill to climb. Let's see if we can square him away a little, and see if any of his wants are amenable to change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are some things that are maleable and there are others which are set in stone more firmly than the pyramids.
Click to expand...


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> As for the June Cleaver thing... I have always been a believer that there has to be one person in charge of any endeavour. Someone who holds the responsibility of making those final decisions and taking the blame when things go wrong. It doesn't mean they don't take other people's opinions into account, but when the decision has to be made, someone has to have the Veto power or a lot of votes end up 1 - 1. Whether that split is 65/35 or 52/48 or 100/0 really ends up depending on the individuals involved. But in my experience 50/50 does not work.


 Do you actually have any experience?


----------



## The Gadfly

Anachronism said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the more I read, the more I dont think you are looking for a mate at all. You want a Little house On The Prairie woman what will pull the plow, feed the chickens, wash the clothes in the water trough outside, stable the horses, clean the stalls then run in at dinner time to make sure you have a nice hot meal she just made from scratch that she grew herself in your garden (I say you, because it sure wouldnt be hers from what Ive gathered so far), have a nice hot drawn bath she heated the water from the fireplace she stoked and make sure your pipe is stuffed with tobaccy and your slippers on your feet after giving them a good massage with Bagbalm that was used on the cows in the barn. And for those efforts, she doesnt get a kiss, a hug, told she is loved and appreciated. Its her job as your mate. And shes nothing more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can definitely see how you would come to that conclusion. I'm not even going to deny that there are some parts of it that are correct. I am definitely looking for a much more Traditional woman than most women today tend to be. You've gone more than a little over the top with your description, though.
> 
> Yes, the domestic chores are more a part of the female role so far as I'm concerned, but I have no interest in living on a farm, the garden would most definitely be hers (I have a black thumb), and I'm more than capable of taking a shower by myself with the hot and cold running water in the bathroom. In return she gets financially and emotionally supported, and does not have to deal with the unpleasantness of the outside world if she doesn't want to.
> 
> I really don't believe in romantic love because I can honestly say that at almost 37 years old, I've never experienced it. Not from my end or towards me by someone else. I would love to be proven wrong, but until I actually experience the sensation, I have a hard time believing it actually exists. That does not mean that there shouldn't be an emotional and physical bond between two people in a relationship.
Click to expand...


I understand your feeling, but what you need to understand, is that love (the romantic kind) really DOES exist. For the moment, you're just going to have to take my word for that. Now, whether you are going to get to experience that, depends on you. It depends on whether or not you can bring yourself to be open to some new ideas and some new possibilities, and take a leap of faith to get there.

Now I'm gonna be just a bit tough here. Life handed you a mountain. It isn't fair; but it's there, and you're still climbing it. It's like that hole life dropped me in years ago called PTSD. That wasn't fair, and I didn't ask for it either, but it happened. I stayed in that hole, until I realized I was the only one who could get me out of it. I started climbing, and while I'm not quite out of it yet, I can see the top; I haven't quit, and I won't quit. Now you've climbed a long way up that mountain. We just threw you some more rope, so now, you have a choice; you can keep climbing, or you can stop where you are and quit. We can throw you some more rope and pitons, but we can't pull you up. I'm hoping you choose to keep climbing, because you have come too damn far to quit.


----------



## HUGGY

Me thinks "Anachronism" needs to see the movie "Pay It Forward"


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> Umm ... you might want to rethink that attitude if you're serious about having a relationship with a woman.



So should I lie about the fact that I believe in traditional gender roles and the place of both men and women in society, or should I just ignore it until I'm far enough along in the relationship that we'll both get hurt even worse when she finds out? I ask that because I really don't see my viewpoints on that topic changing any time soon.

It might take a Saint to live with me, but it'll take a Divinely Inspired MIRACLE to change my mind on that particular subject.



IMEURU said:


> Im sorry if I offended you with my bluntness, anachronism, but maybe what you think and what you say is what is turning women away?



No offense taken at all, IMEURU. I have no doubt that my viewpoints, attitudes, and socio-political bent have a lot to do with what is precluding me from finding a permanent relationship. I've never doubted that at all. What I've also never done is to meet a woman who has made me feel a need to reconsider any one of those views in order to maintain a relationship with her.  



IMEURU said:


> But I DO wish for you to experience love in the way you have not found. Yet. Youre only 37. In your prime.



I don't know about this being my "Prime". I'm in the best physical shape of my life, but other than that everything else in life seems to be hanging on by threads or held together with duct tape and chicken wire.



IMEURU said:


> Im no Gods Gift to Men, but I can pull an engine with or without the bellhousing intact (easier with it in...all one whack as long as you aim correctly and turn here and there), I can build a room, I can put up fences, I can climb trees (ask Lumpy, lol), I have a brain that functions quite well, a great problem solver, dont much like sex cuz I forgot what its all about (my choice) and am pretty much secure in who I am and what I can do...or choose to do.



Absolutely nothing wrong with any of that, IMEURU. Personally I like an intelligent and strong woman. In fact I would suggest that any woman who would have me would have to have both in extreme abundance. However, even if you were in my age bracket, we wouldn't be a good fit, relationship-wise.



IMEURU said:


> Im old enough to be your ma...so Im telling you like a ma would....take down your armor, toss the list, and open your heart. Youll get stabbed, yes. But being stabbed is at least feeling. You are shutting yourself off and its coming across to women. Like you have a big ol note on your shirt that says DISS ME! I KNOW YOU WILL! Take it off. Because someone IS out there. You just havent found her yet. Stop looking. And she might find YOU.



The armor/walls were built because of a prior "open heart" policy that led to nothing more than pain, suffering, and a whole lot of heartache in my younger years. I've seen the blackness inside the human heart and the willingness of people to tear another's heart out. "Thank you Ma'am, may I have another" only works for so long. It's going to take something very unusual to get the armor/wall to come down. I hope it will someday, but I'm not holding my breath on it. 



IMEURU said:


> Yeah. That part is what threw me for a loop. Misogynists DO NOT LIKE WOMEN. So describing yourself as that is totally.....weird.



No. Misogynists believe that women, like men, have a proper role in society and that role is the subordinate role.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism, you are your own worst enemy.


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> Do you actually have any experience?



Relationship experience, yes. Long-term relationship experience, no.



The Gadfly said:


> I understand your feeling, but what you need to understand, is that love (the romantic kind) really DOES exist. For the moment, you're just going to have to take my word for that. Now, whether you are going to get to experience that, depends on you. It depends on whether or not you can bring yourself to be open to some new ideas and some new possibilities, and take a leap of faith to get there.



You know, I'd really like to believe that it does exist. I've been told it does by a lot of very good friends and people that I both trust and respect a whole lot. Even more than that I'd really like to experience it, even just for a moment. To find that one person who I just can't be without. The one who is my other half of my soul. I'm just not certain that I can do it. That I can open up that much. I'm willing to give it a shot, but I'm not sure how many more unpleasant experiences I'm going to be able to deal with.



The Gadfly said:


> Now I'm gonna be just a bit tough here. Life handed you a mountain. It isn't fair; but it's there, and you're still climbing it. It's like that hole life dropped me in years ago called PTSD. That wasn't fair, and I didn't ask for it either, but it happened. I stayed in that hole, until I realized I was the only one who could get me out of it. I started climbing, and while I'm not quite out of it yet, I can see the top; I haven't quit, and I won't quit. Now you've climbed a long way up that mountain. We just threw you some more rope, so now, you have a choice; you can keep climbing, or you can stop where you are and quit. We can throw you some more rope and pitons, but we can't pull you up. I'm hoping you choose to keep climbing, because you have come too damn far to quit.



I'm quite well aware that I'm not the only one who got handed a shit-sandwich for lunch by the Fates. More than likely the same experience that gave you your PTSD ended up killing my father ten years ago (though the doctors won't admit that his cancer had anything to do with exposure to Agent Orange, of course). 

My issue is that every time I've gotten to the top of the hole in this lifetime, it's turned out to be one of the spots in a Whack-A-Mole game and before I even get to take in the scenery I get slammed right back down to the bottom of the hole. Makes one much less interested in sticking your head up again after a while. 

I willing to take a chance at least one more time, but I'm not sure how many more lumps this thick skull can take before it's just not worth sticking the head up anymore.



HUGGY said:


> Me thinks "Anachronism" needs to see the movie "Pay It Forward"



What I've been "paying forward" over the years has been exactly what I've gotten from most of society.... the worst parts of human nature and the blackest parts of the human heart.


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> Anachronism, you are your own worst enemy.



Probably; but most of the time I'm also my only ally; so it's kind of a mixed bag as to whether I love myself or want to strangle myself.


----------



## Grace

Anguille said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the June Cleaver thing... I have always been a believer that there has to be one person in charge of any endeavour. Someone who holds the responsibility of making those final decisions and taking the blame when things go wrong. It doesn't mean they don't take other people's opinions into account, but when the decision has to be made, someone has to have the Veto power or a lot of votes end up 1 - 1. Whether that split is 65/35 or 52/48 or 100/0 really ends up depending on the individuals involved. But in my experience 50/50 does not work.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually have any experience?
Click to expand...


Well now. Can I ask which one makes the final decision? My ex tried that. See, he was married before just as I was. His ex wife walked two steps behind him like the submissive one she was. When he said they needed new furniture, HE picked it out. Anything she liked, was dismissed.
Alas...that didnt work too slick on me. We went to get a new couch. He wanted that one. I wanted the other one. He said he was boss, put the bread on the table and it was his choice. I said ok. But when you get home tomorrow, that fucking couch is going to be out front, smoldering because Im gonna set the sob on fire. Guaranteed. So we got a different couch then the ones we originally picked out and we BOTH agreed on. Soon after that, i got a job. So his "whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine" changed real fast, lemme tell ya.
He tried all thru our marriage to pull that crap. Id just flick a lighter in his direction and smile.

Anywho..I tend to digress.
Gotta have a meeting of the mind. One having "more power" over the other one or insisting 50/50 doesnt work never tried it. Or bent enough to MAKE it 50/50. It does indeed work. And it shouldnt be that anyway. Each person should put 110 percent EACH in.


----------



## Anachronism

IMEURU said:


> Well now. Can I ask which one makes the final decision? My ex tried that. See, he was married before just as I was. His ex wife walked two steps behind him like the submissive one she was. When he said they needed new furniture, HE picked it out. Anything she liked, was dismissed.
> Alas...that didnt work too slick on me. We went to get a new couch. He wanted that one. I wanted the other one. He said he was boss, put the bread on the table and it was his choice. I said ok. But when you get home tomorrow, that fucking couch is going to be out front, smoldering because Im gonna set the sob on fire. Guaranteed. So we got a different couch then the ones we originally picked out and we BOTH agreed on. Soon after that, i got a job. So his "whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine" changed real fast, lemme tell ya.
> He tried all thru our marriage to pull that crap. Id just flick a lighter in his direction and smile.



Grace, I'm pretty sure you're a bright enough person to figure out which one gets to make the final decision in my mind. I'm not going to insult you by thinking that you don't. That's just one of the reasons why a relationship between someone like you and someone like me wouldn't work out very well.

Now, I'm a lot more open to her opinion on things of the nature that you're describing. At least in part because I have no fashion sense and couldn't care much less about furniture, curtains, carpet, and the like. However, there are going to be times in any relationship where there will be two disparate opinions and there needs to be a means for breaking that tie.... and I'm not a big believer in Compromise.



IMEURU said:


> Anywho..I tend to digress.
> Gotta have a meeting of the mind. One having "more power" over the other one or insisting 50/50 doesnt work never tried it. Or bent enough to MAKE it 50/50. It does indeed work. And it shouldnt be that anyway. Each person should put 110 percent EACH in.



I will willingly admit that I've never tried the 50/50 thing. It's not something that I'm interested in. It's not how my parents relationship worked. It's definitely not how either of my sets of grandparents' relationships worked. It's not how my brother and sister-in-law's relationship works (her vows included.... With this ring I thee wed, with this body I thee worship, with all my worldly possessions I thee endow). It's not about how much energy each person puts in. I agree with your 100% comment there. It's about control and power. Who has the final say in things.


----------



## High_Gravity

HUGGY said:


> Me thinks "Anachronism" needs to see the movie "Pay It Forward"
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjkJDu0B-1U



Actually I would recommend this movie for him.


----------



## Grace

Control and power, huh? No further comment.
Just a "good luck".


----------



## Anachronism

IMEURU said:


> Control and power, huh? No further comment.
> Just a "good luck".



Control and Power are what life is about, Grace. That's not popular to say, and doesn't fit into the PC, 21st Century mold, but that IS what life is actually about. Anyone who tells you differently is either naive or lying to themselves and to you.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> and I'm not a big believer in Compromise.


 Well then you are on a wild goose chase for a meaningful relationship with anything other than a robot. You may as well give up on that and put your energies toward achieving something else.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Control and power, huh? No further comment.
> Just a "good luck".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Control and Power are what life is about, Grace. That's not popular to say, and doesn't fit into the PC, 21st Century mold, but that IS what life is actually about. Anyone who tells you differently is either naive or lying to themselves and to you.
Click to expand...

 Control and power are what part of life is about but not all of it. You are not living life to it's fullest if you limit yourself to fufilling your need to be the boss. Good luck with that.


----------



## Barb

Anachronism said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well now. Can I ask which one makes the final decision? My ex tried that. See, he was married before just as I was. His ex wife walked two steps behind him like the submissive one she was. When he said they needed new furniture, HE picked it out. Anything she liked, was dismissed.
> Alas...that didnt work too slick on me. We went to get a new couch. He wanted that one. I wanted the other one. He said he was boss, put the bread on the table and it was his choice. I said ok. But when you get home tomorrow, that fucking couch is going to be out front, smoldering because Im gonna set the sob on fire. Guaranteed. So we got a different couch then the ones we originally picked out and we BOTH agreed on. Soon after that, i got a job. So his "whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine" changed real fast, lemme tell ya.
> He tried all thru our marriage to pull that crap. Id just flick a lighter in his direction and smile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grace, I'm pretty sure you're a bright enough person to figure out which one gets to make the final decision in my mind. I'm not going to insult you by thinking that you don't. That's just one of the reasons why a relationship between someone like you and someone like me wouldn't work out very well.
> 
> Now, I'm a lot more open to her opinion on things of the nature that you're describing. At least in part because I have no fashion sense and couldn't care much less about furniture, curtains, carpet, and the like. However, there are going to be times in any relationship where there will be two disparate opinions and there needs to be a means for breaking that tie.... and I'm not a big believer in Compromise.
> 
> 
> 
> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anywho..I tend to digress.
> Gotta have a meeting of the mind. One having "more power" over the other one or insisting 50/50 doesnt work never tried it. Or bent enough to MAKE it 50/50. It does indeed work. And it shouldnt be that anyway. Each person should put 110 percent EACH in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will willingly admit that I've never tried the 50/50 thing. It's not something that I'm interested in. It's not how my parents relationship worked. It's definitely not how either of my sets of grandparents' relationships worked. It's not how my brother and sister-in-law's relationship works (her vows included.... With this ring I thee wed, with this body I thee worship, with all my worldly possessions I thee endow). It's not about how much energy each person puts in. I agree with your 100% comment there. It's about control and power. Who has the final say in things.
Click to expand...


Control and power, or trust? 
See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT be about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.


----------



## Anachronism

Barb said:


> Control and power, or trust?
> See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.



Trust is simply the opposite side of the same coin that I'm discussing, Barb. One side has the Control/Power and the other side has to Trust that the one with the Control/Power is going to wield it appropriately. That's why this sort of relationship is not to be entered into lightly or quickly. You really need to know that the other person is either worthy of that Trust, or willing to give that Trust, depending on which side of the equation you are on yourself.


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> Well then you are on a wild goose chase for a meaningful relationship with anything other than a robot. You may as well give up on that and put your energies toward achieving something else.



If they would come up with a cuddly teddy bear that could cook, clean, and do laundry, I'd be in my glory, Anguille. Until they do, I'm pretty much stuck looking at flesh and blood women. Robots are just too clunky and metalic to cuddle with for my tastes.



Anguille said:


> Control and power are what part of life is about but not all of it. You are not living life to it's fullest if you limit yourself to fufilling your need to be the boss. Good luck with that.



I gave up on "living life to its fullest" when I was about 10 and realized that my 25 & 40 month younger than me brothers were already bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, and better at pretty much everything they touched than I was. At that point I realized it was going to be "low hanging fruit" for Scott in this lifetime.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Control and power, or trust?
> See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust is simply the opposite side of the same coin that I'm discussing, Barb. One side has the Control/Power and the other side has to Trust that the one with the Control/Power is going to wield it appropriately. That's why this sort of relationship is not to be entered into lightly or quickly. You really need to know that the other person is either worthy of that Trust, or willing to give that Trust, depending on which side of the equation you are on yourself.
Click to expand...

 You want a slave, not a wife.


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> You want a slave, not a wife.



So you're suggesting that my mother, both my grandmothers, and my sister-in-law are simply "slaves". That's an interesting take on things, Anguille. I can guarantee you that none of them see it that way.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well then you are on a wild goose chase for a meaningful relationship with anything other than a robot. You may as well give up on that and put your energies toward achieving something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they would come up with a cuddly teddy bear that could cook, clean, and do laundry, I'd be in my glory, Anguille. Until they do, I'm pretty much stuck looking at flesh and blood women. Robots are just too clunky and metalic to cuddle with for my tastes.
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Control and power are what part of life is about but not all of it. You are not living life to it's fullest if you limit yourself to fufilling your need to be the boss. Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I gave up on "living life to its fullest" when I was about 10 and realized that my 25 & 40 month younger than me brothers were already bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, and better at pretty much everything they touched than I was. At that point I realized it was going to be "low hanging fruit" for Scott in this lifetime.
Click to expand...


----------



## Barb

Anachronism said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Control and power, or trust?
> See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust is simply the opposite side of the same coin that I'm discussing, Barb. One side has the Control/Power and the other side has to Trust that the one with the Control/Power is going to wield it appropriately. That's why this sort of relationship is not to be entered into lightly or quickly. You really need to know that the other person is either worthy of that Trust, or willing to give that Trust, depending on which side of the equation you are on yourself.
Click to expand...


Would you agree that there needs to be mutual respect as to the reasons and points on each side of any issue? That people need to argue fairly and reasonably? The reason I think one person should have the last word is because where no agreement is reached, arguments last forever, and that resentment destroys relationships. If one person, and it doesn't always have to be the man (but like I said, I'm tired), is chosen to have that last word, that is a position of great responsibility. That is why I have a problem with the words "control and power," because they convey privilege, rather than responsibility. Where one approaches that power from a stance of responsibility for someone elses well being and happiness, rather than from a place of control and personal gratification is where the trustworthiness for holding that position stems.


----------



## Samson

Anguille said:


> I gave up on "living life to its fullest" when I was about 10 and realized that my 25 & 40 month younger than me brothers were already bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, and better at pretty much everything they touched than I was. At that point I realized it was going to be "low hanging fruit" for Scott in this lifetime.




I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


>



Sarcasm doesn't look good on you, and I'm not looking for a pity party. It's simply the reality of the situation. I know what my strengths, weaknesses, and limitations are. Not everyone can say that about themselves. I'm just a lot more open and honest about them.


----------



## Barb

Anguille said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Control and power, or trust?
> See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust is simply the opposite side of the same coin that I'm discussing, Barb. One side has the Control/Power and the other side has to Trust that the one with the Control/Power is going to wield it appropriately. That's why this sort of relationship is not to be entered into lightly or quickly. You really need to know that the other person is either worthy of that Trust, or willing to give that Trust, depending on which side of the equation you are on yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want a slave, not a wife.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that is entirely fair. Given the ideal (intellectually and emotionally) male, it wouldn't be a bad bargain. That's hard to locate though.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm doesn't look good on you, and I'm not looking for a pity party. It's simply the reality of the situation. I know what my strengths, weaknesses, and limitations are. Not everyone can say that about themselves. I'm just a lot more open and honest about them.
Click to expand...

 You need therapy. I mean that with no malice intended.


----------



## Anachronism

Samson said:


> I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.



Sarcasm doesn't look good on you either, Samson. As I alluded to, I grew up with two younger brothers who were pretty much better at everything physical, mental, and social than I was. Everything they touched turned to gold. Everything I touched turned into dog crap. After a while it's not worth even bothering to try anymore. I can honestly say it was High School before I ever really succeed at anything, and even then it was as a member of a team, not an individual.


----------



## Anguille

Barb said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trust is simply the opposite side of the same coin that I'm discussing, Barb. One side has the Control/Power and the other side has to Trust that the one with the Control/Power is going to wield it appropriately. That's why this sort of relationship is not to be entered into lightly or quickly. You really need to know that the other person is either worthy of that Trust, or willing to give that Trust, depending on which side of the equation you are on yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> You want a slave, not a wife.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not sure that is entirely fair. Given the ideal (intellectually and emotionally) male, it wouldn't be a bad bargain. That's hard to locate though.
Click to expand...

 Not my idea of the ideal male!  Maybe as a father figure but not as a mate. I think two heads are better than one. (In a relationship, I'm not saying I like two headed men.  )


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm doesn't look good on you either, Samson. As I alluded to, I grew up with two younger brothers who were pretty much better at everything physical, mental, and social than I was. Everything they touched turned to gold. Everything I touched turned into dog crap. After a while it's not worth even bothering to try anymore. I can honestly say it was High School before I ever really succeed at anything, and even then it was as a member of a team, not an individual.
Click to expand...

 There is nothing that doesn't look good on Samson. Have you seen his avatar?


----------



## Samson

Anguille said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want a slave, not a wife.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that is entirely fair. Given the ideal (intellectually and emotionally) male, it wouldn't be a bad bargain. That's hard to locate though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not my idea of the ideal male!  Maybe as a father figure but not as a mate. I think two heads are better than one. (In a relationship, I'm not saying I like two headed men.  )
Click to expand...


Speaking of head.......


The more the merrier.


----------



## Samson

Anachronism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm doesn't look good on you either, Samson. As I alluded to, I grew up with two younger brothers who were pretty much better at everything physical, mental, and social than I was. Everything they touched turned to gold. Everything I touched turned into dog crap. After a while it's not worth even bothering to try anymore. I can honestly say it was High School before I ever really succeed at anything, and even then it was as a member of a team, not an individual.
Click to expand...


Thanks, now I'm giving up just a little more.



I'm a delicate flower, damnit.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm doesn't look good on you either, Samson. As I alluded to, I grew up with two younger brothers who were pretty much better at everything physical, mental, and social than I was. Everything they touched turned to gold. Everything I touched turned into dog crap. After a while it's not worth even bothering to try anymore. I can honestly say it was High School before I ever really succeed at anything, and even then it was as a member of a team, not an individual.
Click to expand...

 You keep saying you don't want a pity party but that's the vibe I get from many of your posts. Whether you want it or not, you have my pity. You seem sincere enough in wanting a better life but you aren't willing to compromise or put your convictions to the test. You also seem smart enough that someday you will.


----------



## Barb

Anachronism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm doesn't look good on you either, Samson. As I alluded to, I grew up with two younger brothers who were pretty much better at everything physical, mental, and social than I was. Everything they touched turned to gold. Everything I touched turned into dog crap. After a while it's not worth even bothering to try anymore. I can honestly say it was High School before I ever really succeed at anything.
Click to expand...


Well, hell. It was High school before lots of us succeeded at anything. K-12 is NOT the be all or end all of anything. Its a VERY small part of life, and if you let it color everything that follows, you're selling life, and yourself, very short. 

I was ugly, and my mother dressed me funny. She cut my hair herself, too. My bangs were stubs lots of times. There's a whole WORLD out there. You're only 37, but at 37 you're judging that world on reactions you got in K-12?! You wasted 25 YEARS of your life shackled to a lunchroom you don't even eat in anymore. That's fucked up, dude.


----------



## Barb

Anguille said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want a slave, not a wife.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that is entirely fair. Given the ideal (intellectually and emotionally) male, it wouldn't be a bad bargain. That's hard to locate though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not my idea of the ideal male!  Maybe as a father figure but not as a mate. I think two heads are better than one. (In a relationship, I'm not saying I like two headed men.  )
Click to expand...


All men are two headed. I wouldn't have them any other way. And I don't have daddy issues. I never let anyone have what I proposed, simply because none of the men I've known could handle it without one of their heads inflating. And not the right one. Still, two people can't drive at the same time, and even if its a shared task, only one can drive at any one time.


----------



## Grace

Ive given up. Dude, you need to see someone about your issues. And you DO have issues.


----------



## Anachronism

Barb said:


> I'm not sure that is entirely fair. Given the ideal (intellectually and emotionally) male, it wouldn't be a bad bargain. That's hard to locate though.



Trust me, it isn't exactly easy to locate the sort of woman who would succeed/excell in that sort of situation either these days.



Anguille said:


> You need therapy. I mean that with no malice intended.



It's been tried, to no avail. Once when I was about 11 years old and again a couple years ago. As both therapists have said.... "Until you decide there's a need to change, there's nothing we can do for you."; and I've never found a sufficient reason to even consider changing.


----------



## Grace

Is that really samson in his avie???
Go easy on me. Im still semi sorta new and have no clue.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that is entirely fair. Given the ideal (intellectually and emotionally) male, it wouldn't be a bad bargain. That's hard to locate though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me, it isn't exactly easy to locate the sort of woman who would succeed/excell in that sort of situation either these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need therapy. I mean that with no malice intended.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's been tried, to no avail. Once when I was about 11 years old and again a couple years ago. As both therapists have said.... "Until you decide there's a need to change, there's nothing we can do for you."; and I've never found a sufficient reason to even consider changing.
Click to expand...

 How's has being so inflexible worked out for you so far? Not too good, it seems. 

Sometimes good things come to people later in life and then they are even more cherished. I think you have potential once life has taught you to be more open minded.

How about puttting some trust in your therapists in the way you expect a woman to put trust in you?


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> Not my idea of the ideal male!  Maybe as a father figure but not as a mate. I think two heads are better than one. (In a relationship, I'm not saying I like two headed men.  )



Two heads, yes; but there can only be ONE Voice or nothing gets done. 



Anguille said:


> You keep saying you don't want a pity party but that's the vibe I get from many of your posts. Whether you want it or not, you have my pity. You seem sincere enough in wanting a better life but you aren't willing to compromise or put your convictions to the test. You also seem smart enough that someday you will.



Please save it for someone who actually wants it and can use it, Anguille. There are plenty of people out there much more deserving of your sympathy than I am. As for compromising or changing, that I kind of doubt. I'm open to the idea, but it's definitely going to take something extroridnary to make it happen, and I just don't see that sort of positive luck/karma/energy coming my way any time soon.



Barb said:


> Well, hell. It was High school before lots of us succeeded at anything. K-12 is NOT the be all or end all of anything. Its a VERY small part of life, and if you let it color everything that follows, you're selling life, and yourself, very short.
> 
> I was ugly, and my mother dressed me funny. She cut my hair herself, too. My bangs were stubs lots of times. There's a whole WORLD out there. You're only 37, but at 37 you're judging that world on reactions you got in K-12?! You wasted 25 YEARS of your life shackled to a lunchroom you don't even eat in anymore. That's fucked up, dude.



No. I've judged the world on 37 years worth of seeing the absolute worst in people a hundred times more often than I see even the least bit of the positive. Especially in their interactions with me. I've judged the world on the world's reaction to me. I learned early on in life that the only person I could count on to my best interests first was ME; and that doing so left precious little time or energy to do anything for anyone else. I've softened on that a little bit over the years, but I still weigh every decision based on what I'm going to get out of it compared to what I put into it.  



Barb said:


> Still, two people can't drive at the same time, and even if its a shared task, only one can drive at any one time.



Exactly/



IMEURU said:


> Ive given up. Dude, you need to see someone about your issues. And you DO have issues.



I definitely have issues. You won't get any arguement from me on that. I've been down the therapy road and it doesn't work for me. The issues are too deeply ingrained and nobody has ever been able to show me a significant, guaranteed benefit to changint any of them. So unless you know someone who has a time machine and a DNA-altering device, there really isn't any help for me.


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> How has being so inflexible worked out for you so far? Not too good, it seems.



It has its advantages. Mostly as a means of defending myself against the world. 



Anguille said:


> Sometimes good things come to people later in life and then they are even more cherished. I think you have potential once life has taught you to be more open minded.



I would not bank on my ever becoming significantly more open minded than I am now. As I mentioned earlier, it is going to take some pretty drastic event or a very special person in my life to even make me consider changing who I am to any significant degree.



Anguille said:


> How about puttting some trust in your therapists in the way you expect a woman to put trust in you?



In my youth, I spent a year's worth of Thursday nights with a therapist and it did absolutely nothing. In the last two years I've periodically seen someone else (mostly for my anger management issue). In both cases they provided really nothing of substance or value in showing me any real reason to change things in my life. No REAL, TANGIBLE, positive value that would be experienced as a result. Oh, there's a lot of.... Maybe's and If's and Possibly's but at this point in my life that's not what I'm interested in.


----------



## HUGGY

Anachronism said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> How has being so inflexible worked out for you so far? Not too good, it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has its advantages. Mostly as a means of defending myself against the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes good things come to people later in life and then they are even more cherished. I think you have potential once life has taught you to be more open minded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would not bank on my ever becoming significantly more open minded than I am now. As I mentioned earlier, it is going to take some pretty drastic event or a very special person in my life to even make me consider changing who I am to any significant degree.
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about puttting some trust in your therapists in the way you expect a woman to put trust in you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my youth, I spent a year's worth of Thursday nights with a therapist and it did absolutely nothing. In the last two years I've periodically seen someone else (mostly for my anger management issue). In both cases they provided really nothing of substance or value in showing me any real reason to change things in my life. No REAL, TANGIBLE, positive value that would be experienced as a result. Oh, there's a lot of.... Maybe's and If's and Possibly's but at this point in my life that's not what I'm interested in.
Click to expand...


I've tried...I've listened...I put my hand to god that no effort has been spared.

Put me back on ignore please ..I can't take any more of this.


----------



## Cecilie1200

The Gadfly said:


> Cecilie,
> Was it rule #5 you "know of some exceptions to"? What would those be? I'm not sure I get where you're going with that.



It was rule #5.  I know some women who get off on being treated . . . well, a little less ladylike in public, let us say.


----------



## Cecilie1200

IMEURU said:


> Well, the more I read, the more I dont think you are looking for a mate at all. You want a Little house On The Prairie woman what will pull the plow, feed the chickens, wash the clothes in the water trough outside, stable the horses, clean the stalls then run in at dinner time to make sure you have a nice hot meal she just made from scratch that she grew herself in your garden (I say you, because it sure wouldnt be hers from what Ive gathered so far), have a nice hot drawn bath she heated the water from the fireplace she stoked and make sure your pipe is stuffed with tobaccy and your slippers on your feet after giving them a good massage with Bagbalm that was used on the cows in the barn. And for those efforts, she doesnt get a kiss, a hug, told she is loved and appreciated. Its her job as your mate. And shes nothing more.
> 
> Good luck in your hunt, dude.



Aside from the "not getting a kiss or a hug" part of this (which I haven't seen even implied in Anachronism's posts, FYI), what do you think a mate IS, precisely?


----------



## Anguille

One of the benefits of being a woman in our society is that when the not in the mood issue comes up. It's considered acceptable for women to not want it all the time whereas a man might feel less of a man if he's not randy 24/7.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Barb said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well now. Can I ask which one makes the final decision? My ex tried that. See, he was married before just as I was. His ex wife walked two steps behind him like the submissive one she was. When he said they needed new furniture, HE picked it out. Anything she liked, was dismissed.
> Alas...that didnt work too slick on me. We went to get a new couch. He wanted that one. I wanted the other one. He said he was boss, put the bread on the table and it was his choice. I said ok. But when you get home tomorrow, that fucking couch is going to be out front, smoldering because Im gonna set the sob on fire. Guaranteed. So we got a different couch then the ones we originally picked out and we BOTH agreed on. Soon after that, i got a job. So his "whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine" changed real fast, lemme tell ya.
> He tried all thru our marriage to pull that crap. Id just flick a lighter in his direction and smile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grace, I'm pretty sure you're a bright enough person to figure out which one gets to make the final decision in my mind. I'm not going to insult you by thinking that you don't. That's just one of the reasons why a relationship between someone like you and someone like me wouldn't work out very well.
> 
> Now, I'm a lot more open to her opinion on things of the nature that you're describing. At least in part because I have no fashion sense and couldn't care much less about furniture, curtains, carpet, and the like. However, there are going to be times in any relationship where there will be two disparate opinions and there needs to be a means for breaking that tie.... and I'm not a big believer in Compromise.
> 
> 
> 
> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anywho..I tend to digress.
> Gotta have a meeting of the mind. One having "more power" over the other one or insisting 50/50 doesnt work never tried it. Or bent enough to MAKE it 50/50. It does indeed work. And it shouldnt be that anyway. Each person should put 110 percent EACH in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will willingly admit that I've never tried the 50/50 thing. It's not something that I'm interested in. It's not how my parents relationship worked. It's definitely not how either of my sets of grandparents' relationships worked. It's not how my brother and sister-in-law's relationship works (her vows included.... With this ring I thee wed, with this body I thee worship, with all my worldly possessions I thee endow). It's not about how much energy each person puts in. I agree with your 100% comment there. It's about control and power. Who has the final say in things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Control and power, or trust?
> See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT be about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.
Click to expand...


And furthermore, getting to make the decision doesn't mean that's he's stupid and arrogant enough to ignore any and all input from the woman, who he hopefully chose in part because she has a brain.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Barb said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that is entirely fair. Given the ideal (intellectually and emotionally) male, it wouldn't be a bad bargain. That's hard to locate though.
> 
> 
> 
> Not my idea of the ideal male!  Maybe as a father figure but not as a mate. I think two heads are better than one. (In a relationship, I'm not saying I like two headed men.  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All men are two headed. I wouldn't have them any other way. And I don't have daddy issues. I never let anyone have what I proposed, simply because none of the men I've known could handle it without one of their heads inflating. And not the right one. Still, two people can't drive at the same time, and even if its a shared task, only one can drive at any one time.
Click to expand...


My husband DOES get that arrangement, and I can tell you he generally considers it more of a pain-in-the-ass chore than an ego-inflating power trip.  I deal with the world outside my home and family primarily because hermithood just ain't practical, by and large, not because I have any real desire to.  It is a tremendous relief to be able to say, "YOU handle it.  I'm going to go make dinner", and then come back and find out that my husband has worked everything out and rearranged the world to take care of me.


----------



## Cecilie1200

IMEURU said:


> Is that really samson in his avie???
> Go easy on me. Im still semi sorta new and have no clue.



Not unless Samson is a professional actor.


----------



## Anachronism

Cecilie1200 said:


> And furthermore, getting to make the decision doesn't mean that's he's stupid and arrogant enough to ignore any and all input from the woman, who he hopefully chose in part because she has a brain.



Gee, it's nice to see that someone actually does READ what I type on occasion; considering that I've said something to that effect in multiple posts over the last two days and it seems to be going in one eye and out the other for some people.



Cecilie1200 said:


> My husband DOES get that arrangement, and I can tell you he generally considers it more of a pain-in-the-ass chore than an ego-inflating power trip.  I deal with the world outside my home and family primarily because hermithood just ain't practical, by and large, not because I have any real desire to.  It is a tremendous relief to be able to say, "YOU handle it.  I'm going to go make dinner", and then come back and find out that my husband has worked everything out and rearranged the world to take care of me.



You know, I don't think I could have said it any better myself, Cecilie. Anyone who thinks that being the individual who gets to make the decisions, make it all work, and sort it all out is a fun and pleasant chore has never had to do it.


----------



## Samson

IMEURU said:


> Ive given up. Dude, you need to see someone about your issues. And you DO have issues.





Just send me another rubber ducky.


----------



## masquerade

Phoenix said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I watch TV, or read the paper?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NASCAR, darlin'.
Click to expand...


Football dahlin'!


----------



## masquerade

IMEURU said:


> The only advice I can give is for Anachronism to:
> 
> throw away his "what Im looking for" list and burn any backup copies he may have.  Hold on now.  I say keep a list of all the qualities you want in your mate, and be sure to express those same qualities in yourself.
> 
> Be himself. When he sees a woman he want to talk to, talk to her like shes someone he already knows. In short..be at ease.  Accept yourself as you are now and know you are adequate for all situations.
> 
> Dont keep ragging on himself.  Never EVER criticize yourself!  Ever!   He seems insecure on his looks. Women are like wolves. They can smell that insecurity and dont find it attractive.
> 
> You look the way you were intended to look from the genes of your parents, and their parents parents on down the line. Being eye candy is a plus, but it isnt the most important thing.
> 
> Hygene is important. So is clean teeth even if they are crooked. CLEAN is the key word.  Nails kept short and no spitting in front of the woman!
> 
> Not seeing a pic of you, I cant give you tips, nor would even if you did post one. Dorky as it sounds, *INSIDE far outweighs the OUTSIDE....*except in certain scenarios ie morbidly obese where he cant even walk....or has rotten teeth...or extreme lack of hygene, etc.



~


----------



## High_Gravity

I don't want to be crude but, if you have a reputation for being very skilled at orally pleasuring the ladies, you will get girls to come to you. Just sayin.


----------



## masquerade

IMEURU said:


> Im sorry if I offended you with my bluntness, anachronism, but maybe what you think and what you say is what is turning women away? I have no clue. But I DO wish for you to experience love in the way you have not found. Yet. Youre only 37. In your prime.
> Im no Gods Gift to Men, but I can pull an engine with or without the bellhousing intact (easier with it in...all one whack as long as you aim correctly and turn here and there), I can build a room, I can put up fences, I can climb trees (ask Lumpy, lol), I have a brain that functions quite well, a great problem solver, dont much like sex cuz I forgot what its all about (my choice) and am pretty much secure in who I am and what I can do...or choose to do. Im old enough to be your ma...so Im telling you like a ma would....take down your armor, toss the list, and open your heart. *Youll get stabbed, yes. But being stabbed is at least feeling. *You are shutting yourself off and its coming across to women. Like you have a big ol note on your shirt that says DISS ME! I KNOW YOU WILL! Take it off. Because someone IS out there. You just havent found her yet. Stop looking. And she might find YOU.



Ahhhh the old cliche .... it is better to have loved and lost, then never to have loved at all.  So true.


----------



## masquerade

Anachronism said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm doesn't look good on you either, Samson. As I alluded to, I grew up with two younger brothers who were pretty much better at everything physical, mental, and social than I was. Everything they touched turned to gold. Everything I touched turned into dog crap. After a while it's not worth even bothering to try anymore. I can honestly say it was High School before I ever really succeed at anything, and even then it was as a member of a team, not an individual.
Click to expand...


Your beliefs in lack and limitation towards yourself and life, are being reflected.  Can you see that?  What you belief about life and about yourself, becomes true for you.


----------



## masquerade

Anguille said:


> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave up when I was 4 and lost my rubber ducky.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarcasm doesn't look good on you either, Samson. As I alluded to, I grew up with two younger brothers who were pretty much better at everything physical, mental, and social than I was. Everything they touched turned to gold. Everything I touched turned into dog crap. After a while it's not worth even bothering to try anymore. I can honestly say it was High School before I ever really succeed at anything, and even then it was as a member of a team, not an individual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying you don't want a pity party but that's the vibe I get from many of your posts. Whether you want it or not, you have my pity. *You seem sincere enough in wanting a better life but you aren't willing to compromise or put your convictions to the test. *You also seem smart enough that someday you will.
Click to expand...


Or to look within to find changes that need to be made there.


----------



## masquerade

Okay, after reading .... most of this colorful thread, I still don't know any man who isn't interested in sex.  But, I do know a woman who thinks about it and wants it more often than her man does.


----------



## High_Gravity

masquerade said:


> Okay, after reading .... most of this colorful thread, I still don't know any man who isn't interested in sex.  But, I do know a woman who thinks about it and wants it more often than her man does.



Wheres this marvelous woman?


----------



## masquerade

High_Gravity said:


> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, after reading .... most of this colorful thread, I still don't know any man who isn't interested in sex.  But, I do know a woman who thinks about it and wants it more often than her man does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wheres this marvelous woman?
Click to expand...


She's located in the northeast.


----------



## High_Gravity

masquerade said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, after reading .... most of this colorful thread, I still don't know any man who isn't interested in sex.  But, I do know a woman who thinks about it and wants it more often than her man does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wheres this marvelous woman?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's located in the northeast.
Click to expand...


Hmm, might have to meat her one of these days.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Anachronism said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And furthermore, getting to make the decision doesn't mean that's he's stupid and arrogant enough to ignore any and all input from the woman, who he hopefully chose in part because she has a brain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, it's nice to see that someone actually does READ what I type on occasion; considering that I've said something to that effect in multiple posts over the last two days and it seems to be going in one eye and out the other for some people.
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My husband DOES get that arrangement, and I can tell you he generally considers it more of a pain-in-the-ass chore than an ego-inflating power trip.  I deal with the world outside my home and family primarily because hermithood just ain't practical, by and large, not because I have any real desire to.  It is a tremendous relief to be able to say, "YOU handle it.  I'm going to go make dinner", and then come back and find out that my husband has worked everything out and rearranged the world to take care of me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I don't think I could have said it any better myself, Cecilie. Anyone who thinks that being the individual who gets to make the decisions, make it all work, and sort it all out is a fun and pleasant chore has never had to do it.
Click to expand...


Also, taking on the traditional male role means that he's responsible for funding the extravaganza that is our home and family.  Sometimes, that has meant working 80 hours a week for him, in order to allow me to fulfill the belief we both hold that it is OUR job to raise our children, not some paid flunky.  One of the reasons I have worked so hard on my fledgling event production business is because it's a way to help ease the financial burden on him without abandoning, in whole or in part, my traditional job as mother and housewife.

Sure, I sometimes feel like that plow horse that got mentioned earlier, scrambling between throwing laundry in the washer, emptying the dishwasher, making phone calls, writing ad copy, and hauling a two-year-old with one hand while toting a list of errands with the other.  But it still beats HIS half of the deal, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Anachronism

High_Gravity said:


> I don't want to be crude but, if you have a reputation for being very skilled at orally pleasuring the ladies, you will get girls to come to you. Just sayin.



Sex is about at the BOTTOM of the list of things that have any importance to me when it comes to a relationship. 



masquerade said:


> Ahhhh the old cliche .... it is better to have loved and lost, then never to have loved at all.  So true.



I would tend to disagree. Never been a fan of that cliche, or the mentality it embraces.



masquerade said:


> Your beliefs in lack and limitation towards yourself and life, are being reflected.  Can you see that?  What you belief about life and about yourself, becomes true for you.



That's kind of a "Chicken & Egg" arguement, masque. Which came first? In my case, since the cause of a lot of this is a genetic birth defect, I'd say it's the limitations that came first before the attitude.



masquerade said:


> Or to look within to find changes that need to be made there.



As I said before, I have yet to be shown any convincing evidence that changing anything in my attitude, personality, or worldview would make any significant change in my life. I have never met anyone or anything worth changing for, and I kind of doubt at this point in my life that I will.


----------



## Anachronism

masquerade said:


> Okay, after reading .... most of this colorful thread, I still don't know any man who isn't interested in sex.



Then you missed at least one of my posts. For me sex is an absolute after-thought to the relationship. I don't believe casual sex is appropriate, nor am I a fan of PDA's. Never have been and likely never will be.



Cecilie1200 said:


> Also, taking on the traditional male role means that he's responsible for funding the extravaganza that is our home and family.  Sometimes, that has meant working 80 hours a week for him, in order to allow me to fulfill the belief we both hold that it is OUR job to raise our children, not some paid flunky.  One of the reasons I have worked so hard on my fledgling event production business is because it's a way to help ease the financial burden on him without abandoning, in whole or in part, my traditional job as mother and housewife.
> 
> Sure, I sometimes feel like that plow horse that got mentioned earlier, scrambling between throwing laundry in the washer, emptying the dishwasher, making phone calls, writing ad copy, and hauling a two-year-old with one hand while toting a list of errands with the other.  But it still beats HIS half of the deal, as far as I'm concerned.



Gee, you mean you don't feel abused, enslaved, or completely degraded? You must really not know what's happening to you, Cecilie. I mean no self-respecting woman in the 20th/21st Century could EVER willingly choose that sort of lifestyle over being a jetsetting, nightlife loving individual who can't be chained down by any mere mortal man.


----------



## masquerade

Anachronism said:


> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or to look within to find changes that need to be made there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said before, I have yet to be shown any convincing evidence that changing anything in my attitude, personality, or worldview would make any significant change in my life. I have never met anyone or anything worth changing for, and I kind of doubt at this point in my life that I will.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry.  It's too bad you feel that way.
Y'know, you could go out on a limb and actually try it to see what happens.  Just sayin'.

Good luck to you Anachronism.


----------



## Cecilie1200

Anachronism said:


> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, after reading .... most of this colorful thread, I still don't know any man who isn't interested in sex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you missed at least one of my posts. For me sex is an absolute after-thought to the relationship. I don't believe casual sex is appropriate, nor am I a fan of PDA's. Never have been and likely never will be.
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, taking on the traditional male role means that he's responsible for funding the extravaganza that is our home and family.  Sometimes, that has meant working 80 hours a week for him, in order to allow me to fulfill the belief we both hold that it is OUR job to raise our children, not some paid flunky.  One of the reasons I have worked so hard on my fledgling event production business is because it's a way to help ease the financial burden on him without abandoning, in whole or in part, my traditional job as mother and housewife.
> 
> Sure, I sometimes feel like that plow horse that got mentioned earlier, scrambling between throwing laundry in the washer, emptying the dishwasher, making phone calls, writing ad copy, and hauling a two-year-old with one hand while toting a list of errands with the other.  But it still beats HIS half of the deal, as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee, you mean you don't feel abused, enslaved, or completely degraded? You must really not know what's happening to you, Cecilie. I mean no self-respecting woman in the 20th/21st Century could EVER willingly choose that sort of lifestyle over being a jetsetting, nightlife loving individual who can't be chained down by any mere mortal man.
Click to expand...


I'm NOT chained down by a mere mortal man, for two reasons:  the first is that my husband loves me and considers it part of his job as my husband and head of the household to facilitate and encourage my growth, accomplishment, and fulfillment as a person, just as I feel it my job as his wife to do the same for him, just as both of us feel it our job as their parents to do the same for our children.  That's what family is supposed to be FOR.

The second reason is that there is nothing "mere mortal" about my husband.  

Seriously, I have a bright, loving, often helpful and frequently infuriating 15-year-old and the cutest, most charismatic 2-year-old on the planet.  If anyone wants to suggest that there could or should be anything in the world more important, meaningful, and rewarding that I could do with myself than help them develop into adults and provide a comfortable, nurturing fortress of safety for all of us, then I'm sorry, but I don't even comprehend the language that person is speaking.


----------



## sitarro

Samson said:


> Douger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the point is that women aren't very used to hearing a man say no and don't take the rejection very lightly.
> 
> 
> 
> You'd have to be pretty nasty, physically OR mentally, for me to turn down a quick romp.
> No. I wouldn't fuck Loosely Lohand or Britney for the latter reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe you:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if I was jerking off 500X the norm, I could do Lindsey
> 
> Brittany would need to wear a wig:
Click to expand...


Hey Samson....... is this the type of wig you want Britney to wear?    






Or this one...........


----------



## Anachronism

masquerade said:


> I'm sorry.  It's too bad you feel that way.
> Y'know, you could go out on a limb and actually try it to see what happens.  Just sayin'.
> 
> Good luck to you Anachronism.



Thank you for the kind words, masque. 

Really, it's just what my experience in life has taught me. I can honestly say there's really one thing I've succeeded at over the years, and that's something I do almost totally by myself.... working out at the gym. I'm there generally five days a week and three of those five I'm by myself. The fourth I'm there with my personal trainer and the last day (Saturday) I'm there for a group class. 

I'm really at a point where I've probably got one more attempt in me, masque. If whatever the next thing or person I open up to doesn't work out, it's probably over for good, so I really want to try and make sure it's the right person or thing before I blow it.



Cecilie1200 said:


> I'm NOT chained down by a mere mortal man, for two reasons:  the first is that my husband loves me and considers it part of his job as my husband and head of the household to facilitate and encourage my growth, accomplishment, and fulfillment as a person, just as I feel it my job as his wife to do the same for him, just as both of us feel it our job as their parents to do the same for our children.  That's what family is supposed to be FOR.
> 
> The second reason is that there is nothing "mere mortal" about my husband.



I think you know that was as close as I get to joking, Cecilie. Obviously you and I have a much more common viewpoint on this than most of the others do. It's not exactly the same, but it's relatively close anyway.



Cecilie1200 said:


> Seriously, I have a bright, loving, often helpful and frequently infuriating 15-year-old and the cutest, most charismatic 2-year-old on the planet.  If anyone wants to suggest that there could or should be anything in the world more important, meaningful, and rewarding that I could do with myself than help them develop into adults and provide a comfortable, nurturing fortress of safety for all of us, then I'm sorry, but I don't even comprehend the language that person is speaking.



If we had more women like you in this country, I might actually think there was still some hope for the future generations of Americans.


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.  It's too bad you feel that way.
> Y'know, you could go out on a limb and actually try it to see what happens.  Just sayin'.
> 
> Good luck to you Anachronism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the kind words, masque.
> 
> Really, it's just what my experience in life has taught me. I can honestly say there's really one thing I've succeeded at over the years, and that's something I do almost totally by myself.... working out at the gym. I'm there generally five days a week and three of those five I'm by myself. The fourth I'm there with my personal trainer and the last day (Saturday) I'm there for a group class.
> 
> I'm really at a point where I've probably got one more attempt in me, masque. If whatever the next thing or person I open up to doesn't work out, it's probably over for good, so I really want to try and make sure it's the right person or thing before I blow it.
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm NOT chained down by a mere mortal man, for two reasons:  the first is that my husband loves me and considers it part of his job as my husband and head of the household to facilitate and encourage my growth, accomplishment, and fulfillment as a person, just as I feel it my job as his wife to do the same for him, just as both of us feel it our job as their parents to do the same for our children.  That's what family is supposed to be FOR.
> 
> The second reason is that there is nothing "mere mortal" about my husband.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you know that was as close as I get to joking, Cecilie. Obviously you and I have a much more common viewpoint on this than most of the others do. It's not exactly the same, but it's relatively close anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, I have a bright, loving, often helpful and frequently infuriating 15-year-old and the cutest, most charismatic 2-year-old on the planet.  If anyone wants to suggest that there could or should be anything in the world more important, meaningful, and rewarding that I could do with myself than help them develop into adults and provide a comfortable, nurturing fortress of safety for all of us, then I'm sorry, but I don't even comprehend the language that person is speaking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we had more women like you in this country, I might actually think there was still some hope for the future generations of Americans.
Click to expand...

Wait till you get to know Cecilie better.  

BTW Anach, I forgot to tell you are wrong about the definition of misogyny. Look it up in the dictionary.
If you've been telling women you're a traditional misogynist no wonder you don't get very far.


----------



## Grace

Cecilie1200 said:


> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the more I read, the more I dont think you are looking for a mate at all. You want a Little house On The Prairie woman what will pull the plow, feed the chickens, wash the clothes in the water trough outside, stable the horses, clean the stalls then run in at dinner time to make sure you have a nice hot meal she just made from scratch that she grew herself in your garden (I say you, because it sure wouldnt be hers from what Ive gathered so far), have a nice hot drawn bath she heated the water from the fireplace she stoked and make sure your pipe is stuffed with tobaccy and your slippers on your feet after giving them a good massage with Bagbalm that was used on the cows in the barn. And for those efforts, she doesnt get a kiss, a hug, told she is loved and appreciated. Its her job as your mate. And shes nothing more.
> 
> Good luck in your hunt, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from the "not getting a kiss or a hug" part of this (which I haven't seen even implied in Anachronism's posts, FYI), what do you think a mate IS, precisely?
Click to expand...


Your other half. If you need more info on what that means, Im sorry to disappoint but continuing this is solving nothing. I wish Anachronism the best of luck, and I mean that sincerely.


----------



## Grace

Cecilie1200 said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anachronism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grace, I'm pretty sure you're a bright enough person to figure out which one gets to make the final decision in my mind. I'm not going to insult you by thinking that you don't. That's just one of the reasons why a relationship between someone like you and someone like me wouldn't work out very well.
> 
> Now, I'm a lot more open to her opinion on things of the nature that you're describing. At least in part because I have no fashion sense and couldn't care much less about furniture, curtains, carpet, and the like. However, there are going to be times in any relationship where there will be two disparate opinions and there needs to be a means for breaking that tie.... and I'm not a big believer in Compromise.
> 
> 
> 
> I will willingly admit that I've never tried the 50/50 thing. It's not something that I'm interested in. It's not how my parents relationship worked. It's definitely not how either of my sets of grandparents' relationships worked. It's not how my brother and sister-in-law's relationship works (her vows included.... With this ring I thee wed, with this body I thee worship, with all my worldly possessions I thee endow). It's not about how much energy each person puts in. I agree with your 100% comment there. It's about control and power. Who has the final say in things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Control and power, or trust?
> See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT be about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And furthermore, getting to make the decision doesn't mean that's he's stupid and arrogant enough to ignore any and all input from the woman, who he hopefully chose in part because she has a brain.
Click to expand...


Huh???? Isnt that what I just said???


----------



## Anachronism

Anguille said:


> Wait till you get to know Cecilie better.



Actually, I've had the pleasure of several extended conversations with Cecilie, and find that she and I share more than a few ideas in common.



Anguille said:


> BTW Anach, I forgot to tell you are wrong about the definition of misogyny. Look it up in the dictionary. If you've been telling women you're a traditional misogynist no wonder you don't get very far.



Actually, when it comes to modern women, the definition fits perfectly well. Hatred would probably be a polite version of the emotions that I feel towards modern/feminits women. Now traditional women and ladies, that's another topic entirely.


----------



## The Gadfly

Anachronism said:


> What I've been "paying forward" over the years has been exactly what I've gotten from most of society.... the worst parts of human nature and the blackest parts of the human heart.



You, kid  (I am more than old enough to be your father, and yes, he and I served in the same place), are beginning to remind me more and more of myself when I came home and left the army. What that says about you, and me, is NOT a good thing. Now I don't look like you, but let's just say my tour didn't improve my appearance, and there's enough visible evidence for people to ask "You get that in 'Nam?", and the answer sometimes got followed up with, "Then you deserve it, __________!" (insert appropriate epithet). I didn't like that much; besides, being, among other things, so hyper-alert you have to tell everyone around you not to approach you from behind without announcing themselves, or touch you when you are not fully awake (because you will attack anyone who does), does not exactly make one attractive to women either.  I reacted to all that just about like you; if people rejected me, than I rejected them; "Go ahead, hate me, I can hate too! It ain't fair! Screw the world; you don't like me, it's YOUR problem! Meet me on MY terms, or leave me the hell alone! I know the drill, I lived it, and now here you are for a different reason, doing the same damn thing! That little sentence of yours said it all; it sounds enough like me to be a direct quote.

You know what that got me? Exactly what it's gotten you, as far as I can tell-NOTHING! Well, except that you break up every relationship you start, you ask for help, but in the end, you push most of your friends away, and you put up one defensive wall after another. Nobody is going to get to you, no way. No one, is going to get a chance to hurt you, or insult you, ever again! You get some counseling, but change anything? Why? It's those other people who need to change, not you! THEY are the ones, that don't accept you, just the way you are! To hell with them; nothing in it for you, anyhow! I mean, who the hell out there has done YOU any favors, huh? Rejected, ejected, and kicked to the curb, all for something you can't help, and the best part is, it's not your fault!

Yeah, I did it too, right down to expecting someone to come along, understand, and get me out of this damn pit (never mind that I was digging it deeper) Oh, I need that magic person to come tear down MY walls! I need someone, to make ME happy. No one will do that-see, no one wants me, no one cares, and no one is going to care!

Keep it up; with the exception of a few of my own little personal touches (not really necessary, they just speed the process) you're well on the road to oblivion. Stay on it, and I think you know where it ends. The question is, do you have the intestinal fortitude, to get off it, before it's too late, or at least, too late to matter much? Well, DO YOU?

You think I'm being mean? I AM administering a kick in the butt, the one I wish to God someone had given ME! I needed one, and so do you! It would have saved me a lot of time, and a lot of wasted grief, and I hope it will do the same for you.

You have a choice, pure and simple, and just like anyone else, just like every so-called "normal" human being, you are going to have to make it. There is no special exemption for you, me, or anyone else who got handed a shit sandwich instead of a box of chocolates, and decided to take the slow boat to hell because of it. That's right, I said "decided", because by God, by what you've done to this point, that is what you did, that is what I did, and YOU OWN THAT PART, just like I did. You might have had a little help, but you did the rest. All that, by the way, does not make you gutless, or less of a man, or a sorry human being, but it does mean you quit, you settled and you're digging, instead of climbing. You know what I think? I think you're better than that. I think, you're more of a man, than that, and I think, that something inside you, knows that! Otherwise, you wouldn't be here asking.

You can't do any more with the outside of you, but you damn well CAN fix the inside, and you are going to have to. You are going to have to learn to trust. Everybody, "normal" or otherwise, has to do that, to find love, or happiness, or contentment, or anything else that makes life mean being alive, not just existing. You are not a special case. You are going to have to take a chance! You are even going to have to crawl out of the shell you put yourself in; the one you hide in, just like I had to. I have a sign on my wall, a picture of a turtle crawling along, with a caption "Behold the turtle; he makes progress, ONLY when his neck is out!" I keep that to remind me that life is taking chances, life is full of risk- and you don't get where you want to go, closed up in a shell snug, safe, and stationary.

You and I, whatever else we did or didn't get, got issued a life, one each, and one chance to get it right. USE IT, or LOSE IT! You're in a hurry? So is everyone else, but whether it's a month from now, or three years,or forty years, from now, if you don't fix your attitude, and your outlook, and focus on what you can do, and need to do, instead of what you want somebody to do for you, I will GUARANTEE*you will be right where you are*. You will NOT get the girl, you will NOT get the prize, and you will have totally WASTED whatever chance at being happy you have. Of course, you won't get hurt, either. Now, on the other hand, if you work on yourself, and you're willing to take a chance, and willing to trust, well, you might get hurt, but you know what-that's the WORST that can happen, and you already know what that is, because you have already felt that, and dealt with that...and survived that-it is not going to kill you, or it already would have. What the hell do you think you have to lose?

That is the best I can do for you. Take it for what it's worth. Don't tell me what you CAN'T DO! I am not interested in the word "CAN'T"! "CAN"T" has no place in my life, not anymore; I learned that, way, way back, and if I hadn't forgotten that, I could have spared myself a LOT of pain. I've been farther down than you, and not all that much younger than you at the time. All the things I thought I could never have, again, I've had. I've had love (many times), I've been married (still am), had FIVE wonderful kids, and I've been successful beyond what I could have hoped for. Luck? I've had some, good and bad. Am I blessed? Yes, I am. And one night, years ago, I could have missed out on it all. I had to choose-die, or try to learn to live again. You know what I chose. If I can do it, SO CAN YOU!


----------



## Grace

I think you are awesome Gadfly. Kudos to you.


----------



## Grace

> "You get that in 'Nam?", and the answer sometimes got followed up with, "Then you deserve it



Im so sorry that was said to you. To all who served in Nam. It makes me angry...but now it just makes me sad.


----------



## Cecilie1200

IMEURU said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMEURU said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the more I read, the more I dont think you are looking for a mate at all. You want a Little house On The Prairie woman what will pull the plow, feed the chickens, wash the clothes in the water trough outside, stable the horses, clean the stalls then run in at dinner time to make sure you have a nice hot meal she just made from scratch that she grew herself in your garden (I say you, because it sure wouldnt be hers from what Ive gathered so far), have a nice hot drawn bath she heated the water from the fireplace she stoked and make sure your pipe is stuffed with tobaccy and your slippers on your feet after giving them a good massage with Bagbalm that was used on the cows in the barn. And for those efforts, she doesnt get a kiss, a hug, told she is loved and appreciated. Its her job as your mate. And shes nothing more.
> 
> Good luck in your hunt, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from the "not getting a kiss or a hug" part of this (which I haven't seen even implied in Anachronism's posts, FYI), what do you think a mate IS, precisely?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your other half. If you need more info on what that means, Im sorry to disappoint but continuing this is solving nothing. I wish Anachronism the best of luck, and I mean that sincerely.
Click to expand...


Actually, yeah, I WOULD like some idea what this romantic claptrap is actually supposed to mean in real-world terms.  It might be nice if marriage meant holding hands, gazing soulfully into each other's eyes in front of a sunset while doves fly over your head, but the reality is that the majority of the time, it means getting out of bed at 3 because one of the kids is puking, sorting the laundry according to which hamper the cat pissed in because someone left the door open by accident, and having to run out to the supermarket at the last minute because one of the ingredients for dinner somehow didn't make it into the grocery bag.  In other words, mundane everyday LIFE.

What the hell is "your other half" supposed to mean?


----------



## Anachronism

The Gadfly said:


> You, kid  (I am more than old enough to be your father, and yes, he and I served in the same place), are beginning to remind me more and more of myself when I came home and left the army. What that says about you, and me, is NOT a good thing. Now I don't look like you, but let's just say my tour didn't improve my appearance, and there's enough visible evidence for people to ask "You get that in 'Nam?", and the answer sometimes got followed up with, "Then you deserve it, __________!" (insert appropriate epithet). I didn't like that much; besides, being, among other things, so hyper-alert you have to tell everyone around you not to approach you from behind without announcing themselves, or touch you when you are not fully awake (because you will attack anyone who does), does not exactly make one attractive to women either.  I reacted to all that just about like you; if people rejected me, than I rejected them; "Go ahead, hate me, I can hate too! It ain't fair! Screw the world; you don't like me, it's YOUR problem! Meet me on MY terms, or leave me the hell alone! I know the drill, I lived it, and now here you are for a different reason, doing the same damn thing! That little sentence of yours said it all; it sounds enough like me to be a direct quote.



First off, and I apologize for not stating this in the last post..... Thank you very much for your service to this country. Thank you for everything you gave to the service of this nation when it called upon you. I know you'll probably disagree with me, but every single one of you Vietnam Veterans is a hero in my book, and always will be. 

It does sound like we've been down very similar roads for very different reasons, Gadfly.



The Gadfly said:


> You know what that got me? Exactly what it's gotten you, as far as I can tell-NOTHING! Well, except that you beak up every relationship you start, you ask for help, but in the end, you push most of your friends away, and you put up one defensive wall after another. Nobody is going to get to you, no way. No one, is going to get a chance to hurt you, or insult you, ever again! You get some counseling, but change anything? Why? It's those other people who need to change, not you! THEY are the ones, that don't accept you, just the way you are! To hell with them; nothing in it for you, anyhow! I mean, who the hell out there has done YOU any favors, huh? Rejected, ejected, and kicked to the curb, all for something you can't help, and the best part is, it's not your fault!



I can't speak for you obviously, but this life has gotten me a number of things over the years. It's gotten me a unique insight into other people.... Their reactions to seeing me for the first time. Their second reactions, immediately after that first moment. It's made me a much stronger and more self-reliant person. Someone who doesn't need to have a gaggle of friends and acquaintances around in order to survive. It's also brought me a very small core of good, solid, loyal friends who I would kill or die for. 

No it hasn't been a lot of fun, and I could have typed that paragraph just as easily as you did. It's just the reality of the situation.



The Gadfly said:


> Yeah, I did it too, right down to expecting someone to come along, understand, and get me out of this damn pit (never mind that I was digging it deeper) Oh, I need that magic person to come tear down MY walls! I need someone, to make ME happy. No one will do that-see no one wants me, no one cares, and no one is going to care!



Yep. That's pretty much where I'm at and where I have been for about the last 20-25 years.



The Gadfly said:


> Keep it up; with the exception of a few of my own little personal touches (not really necessary, they just speed the process) you're well on the road to oblivion. Stay on it, and I think you know where it ends. The question is, do you have the intestinal fortitude, to get off it, before it's too late, or at least, too late to matter much? Well, DO YOU?



Oh, I passed Oblivion about 5 miles back, Gadfly. It's a cute little town and the waitress in the diner's got some nice milk jugs, if you catch my drift. It might have been a nice place to settle down, but it seemed a little crowded for my tastes.



The Gadfly said:


> You think I'm being mean? I AM administering a kick in the butt, the one I wish to God someone had given ME! I needed one, and so do you! It would have saved me a lot of time, and a lot of wasted grief, and I hope it will do the same for you.



No, I don't think you're being mean. I know exactly what you're doing, and I have to congratulate you on doing a very good job at it. Part of the problem is three letters you stuck into that paragraph.... "God". The Christian God and I parted company almost 10 years ago. In fact it'll be 10 years exactly on 8/22/2011 at 12:53 pm Eastern time. 



The Gadfly said:


> You have a choice, pure and simple, and just like anyone else, just like every so-called "normal" human being, you are going to have to make it. There is no special exemption for you, me, or anyone else who got handed a shit sandwich instead of a box of chocolates, and decided to take the slow boat to hell because of it. That's right, I said "decided", because by God, by what you've done to this point, that is what you did, that is what I did, and YOU OWN THAT PART, just like I did. You might have had a little help, but you did the rest. All that, by the way, does not make you gutless, or less of a man, or a sorry human being, but it does mean you quit, you settled and you're digging, instead of climbing. You know what I think? I think you're better than that. I think, you're more of a man, than that, and I think, that something inside you, knows that! Otherwise, you wouldn't be here asking.



Again, we're 100% in agreement. If you're looking for an arguement from me on any of this, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Yes, I have "quit" on life. I did that a long time ago. Doesn't really matter why, or whose fault it is at this point. 

There something/someone inside who would like to think I'm better than that. His/It's voice pokes its head up every once in a while and generally gets shouted down by the other voices (it's an analogy, no I don't really hear voices in my head). The problem is that every time we've listened to it over the years, things turn out less than wonderfully....

In general this is how it goes..... I find something I like/enjoy. I find out I might even have a modecrum of success or fun at it. I take it as far as whatever minimal amount of natural ability will get me. I invest a bunch of time and energy and money into it. Then, due to my lack of patience and unrealistic expectations for level and speed of success, I end up getting pissed off when I don't meet those expectations and I end up quitting or at least seriously reducing my level of participation in whatever the activity is. That is really about the story of my life, repeated time and again, in a single paragraph.



The Gadfly said:


> You can't do any more with the outside of you, but you damn well CAN fix the inside, and you are going to have to. You are going to have to learn to trust. Everybody, "normal" or otherwise, has to do that, to find love, or happiness, or contentment, or anything else that makes life mean being alive, not just existing. You are not a special case. You are going to have to take a chance! You are even going to have to crawl out of the shell you put yourself in; the one you hide in, just like I had to. I have a sign on my wall, a picture of a turtle crawling along, with a caption "Behold the turtle; he makes progress, ONLY when his neck is out!" I keep that to remind me that life is taking chances, life is full of risk- and you don't get where you want to go, closed up in a shell snug, safe, and stationary.



Trust and Faith are things that do not come easily to me, Gadfly. They haven't for a lot of years. Friendship, sure, Faith and Trust, uh uh. Very tough to build with me and very easy to lose. 

Part of the issue with love, happiness, joy, etc... is that I've literally built a world for myself where those things don't have much of any meaning. They aren't the point of life, so far as I am concerned. That makes it much more difficult to buy into a philosophy that says one should be sticking one's neck out in order to find them.

I think I made the Whack-A-Mole analogy earlier in the thread. That's really the way I feel most of the time... like the moment I stick my head out it's going to get smacked with a stick, or cut clean off. As you well know, it's much easier to stay in that safe hole than to stick one's head up.

Another part of the issue is that I really don't have much of a physical support base right now. You folks here online have been very kind and helpful, but there really isn't much of anyone in my immediate real-life who is any level of support. There are a few people, but they're not in this area, so short of phone calls and emails there's not much they can do; and I'm the sort of person who really does need that type of support a lot of the time when trying new and potentially frustrating/annoying things in my life. I don't work well without a safety net and right now I don't have one.



The Gadfly said:


> You and I, whatever else we did or didn't get, got issued a life, one each, and one chance to get it right. USE IT, or LOSE IT! You're in a hurry? So is everyone else, but whether it's a month from now, or three years,or forty years, from now, if you don't fix your attitude, and your outlook, and focus on what you can do, and need to do, instead of what you want somebody to do for you, I will GUARANTEE *you will be right where you are*. You will NOT get the girl, you will NOT get the prize, and you will have totally WASTED whatever chance at being happy you have. Of course, you won't get hurt, either. Now, on the other hand, if you work on yourself, and you're willing to take a chance, and willing to trust, well, you might get hurt, but you know what-that's the WORST that can happen, and you already know what that is, because you have already felt that, and dealt with that...and survived that-it is not going to kill you, or it already would have. What the hell do you think you have to lose?



All totally true and 100% correct, Gadfly. What I have to lose is the small amount of my personal self-esteem and sanity I actually have left. I also have to consider my temper issues. They're different but similar to what you described above. I tend to react poorly when things don't go my way. I also tend to act violently. Thankfully in general it's directed against inanimate objects, but I fear that someday I could slip. It's something I've been working on and gotten more under control in the last 6 months, but I won't say it's cured by any means.



The Gadfly said:


> That is the best I can do for you. Take it for what it's worth. Don't tell me what you CAN'T DO! I am not interested in the word "CAN'T"! "CAN"T" has no place in my life, not anymore; I learned that, way, way back, and if I hadn't forgotten that, I could have spared myself a LOT of pain. I've been farther down than you, and not all that much younger than you at the time. All the things I thought I could never have, again, I've had. I've had love (many times), I've been married (still am), had FIVE wonderful kids, and I've been successful beyond what I could have hoped for. Luck? I've had some, good and bad. Am I blessed? Yes, I am. And one night, years ago, I could have missed out on it all. I had to choose-die, or try to learn to live again. You know what I chose. If I can do it, SO CAN YOU!



I don't believe I've used the word "Can't" anywhere in this reply.

Congratulations on what you've accomplished. You obviously worked hard for it and deserve it. 

I've had that night myself. If someone else hadn't walked into the room while I had the gun in my hands you and I would have never met (even virtually). I still wonder some days if that wouldn't have been the better option.

Honestly, I would love to change my life. I just don't know how, and I'm not sure that I have the support structure around me to make it work. I sure as hell know I'm not strong enough to do it on my own. It's like moving a pile of rocks... which one do you move first to do it the most efficient way possible without having the entire pile end up on your head?


----------



## Anguille

Anachronism said:


> Actually, when it comes to modern women, the definition fits perfectly well. Hatred would probably be a polite version of the emotions that I feel towards modern/feminits women. Now traditional women and ladies, that's another topic entirely.



You did mention you had anger management issues.


----------



## Cecilie1200

IMEURU said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Control and power, or trust?
> See, to my mind, where there is a total disagreement, SOMEBODY has to drive. I'm tired. Maybe lazy...but I do believe that in the ideal relationship, I would TRUST the man in my life not to abuse the last word. That is not to say I wouldn't have ANY words, but that I would trust him enough not to be an asshole about it if he were given that. Haven't been in that relationship yet. Should have held out for it from jump. But it should NOT be about control and power, but about trusting someone to drive, to give them the trust to have that final say on any given issue, and to really know that they would only and always have your best interests at heart, even if that meant giving up a little ground himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And furthermore, getting to make the decision doesn't mean that's he's stupid and arrogant enough to ignore any and all input from the woman, who he hopefully chose in part because she has a brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Huh???? Isnt that what I just said???
Click to expand...


Could be.  I was taking a bit of a different, albeit complimentary, point from you.


----------



## The Gadfly

Anachronism,
 In no particular order; 

Thanks for the thanks, but I'm no hero, though I served with men who were. I'm just one more man who walked into hell, and was lucky enough to walk out of it.

One of the first things I lost in Vietnam, was my religion. It didn't seem like there was any God looking over anyone in that place. I couldn't imagine anything resembling the God I was taught of allowing human suffering. or human depravity like I saw there. Horrors beyond words, or comprehension, things you couldn't imagine in the blackest hottest pit in hell, much less on earth; the kind as stark and vivid after forty years, as when they were fresh. This one village, and what the Cong did there; I wouldn't want my worst enemy to see that, not ever. When it makes the most hardened professional soldiers puke....not a thing you even want to imagine. No atheists in a foxhole? Well, after that, there sure was one Agnostic in mine! It was only years later I got my faith back and it was a struggle to ever believe again, but now, I do, and it is a great comfort to me, I don't know how you lost yours, but somehow, some way, I really hope you find it again. It really does ease the burden, and there is a comfort in it, that's not to be had elsewhere. I was so terribly angry with God, maybe you are too; but maybe, as mine was, your God is too small.

You move a pile of rocks, carefully, one at a time, until you have them all flat on the ground; THEN, you can rearrange them.

That voice in your head, the one that tries to tell you you're better than that-start listening to it; that's the part of you that still hopes speaking.

Changing your outlook is scary, and hard, learning to trust is scary, and hard. You need guidance, and maybe some emotional tools. Get a good therapist, and this time, listen to him/her. You are going to really have to want to do this, and commit yourself to a real, hard effort. It may not come quickly, but it will come. They can guide you, but YOU still have to do the work.

If you're bouncing from hobby to hobby, and interest to interest to feel good, something is missing. I have a pretty good idea what, but you're going to have to figure that out for yourself (and when you do, you will understand why).

I know what you think giving, and caring about others, got you. That happens to everyone, actually; the world is full of ungrateful people. Here's a hint, when you think you're given and cared,all you can, give and care more. Sooner or later, it will bring something good your way; it doesn't always go quite so unnoticed as you think. If nothing else, if you genuinely care about others, (not just for what you think you might get from it) it's hard to think about yourself so much, and that's a good thing. Just remember: a kind word, costs you exactly nothing; a bit of encouragement, costs you nothing.A little compassion, costs you nothing. Try it; it takes getting used to, when your focus is on you, but you might even like it. Our little conversations here, have cost me the time it took to write, and a bit of thought, for which I want....not the first thing from you, not a thing. You see, caring for others only takes up time I might spend worrying about my own problems (I still have some, of course), and that is of more than enough benefit to me, to be worth it.

I know this is a stupid suggestion, but go to church anyway, no matter how angry you are with God. It may feel useless, but the fact is, it can't hurt you; besides, you know the kind of woman you think you want? Well, you're more likely to find one of those, in a church, than in a bar. Sorry, but that's where the more "traditional " women are. If the mountain will not come to Mohammed, then Mohammed must go to the mountain, and all that. Not the quickest place to get laid, but since that's not your priority.....As a matter of fact, guess where I met my wife?

P.S. That date, 8/22/01 and time; Was that when you lost your dad?  I think you said that was ten years ago . Is that, why you're so angry with God, or is it something else? Anyway, I meant to tell you earlier that I'm sorry for your loss, and sorry another one of my brothers left us far too soon. Every man and woman who served there, is special to me.


----------



## Anachronism

The Gadfly said:


> Thanks for the thanks, but I'm no hero, though I served with men who were. I'm just one more man who walked into hell, and was lucky enough to walk out of it.



Everyone who puts on the uniform of the US Military during wartime in a hero, Gadfly. 



The Gadfly said:


> One of the first things I lost in Vietnam, was my religion. It didn't seem like there was any God looking over anyone in that place. I couldn't imagine anything resembling the God I was taught of allowing human suffering. or human depravity like I saw there. Horrors beyond words, or comprehension, things you couldn't imagine in the blackest hottest pit in hell, much less on earth; the kind as stark and vivid after forty years, as when they were fresh. This one village, and what the Cong did there; I wouldn't want my worst enemy to see that, not ever. When it makes the most hardened professional soldiers puke....not a thing you even want to imagine. No atheists in a foxhole? Well, after that, there sure was one Agnostic in mine! It was only years later I got my faith back and it was a struggle to ever believe again, but now, I do, and it is a great comfort to me, I don't know how you lost yours, but somehow, some way, I really hope you find it again. It really does ease the burden, and there is a comfort in it, that's not to be had elsewhere. I was so terribly angry with God, maybe you are too; but maybe, as mine was, your God is too small.



In my case it's a matter of my God being too BIG, not too small. Too big to give a shit about silly little old me, or my dad. I'm not actually mad at God. I'm actually pretty much relieved that I only wasted 27 years on him before recongizing that he wasn't worth my time or energy because he doesn't give a damn about anyone. My dad wasted all 54 years of his life on religion and got nothing out of it in the end. 



The Gadfly said:


> You move a pile of rocks, carefully, one at a time, until you have them all flat on the ground; THEN, you can rearrange them.



Interesting take on the subject. 



The Gadfly said:


> That voice in your head, the one that tries to tell you you're better than that-start listening to it; that's the part of you that still hopes speaking.



I'm trying to listen more and more, but his ideas have turned out so wretchedly badly so many times in the past that it's not an easy thing to do again.



The Gadfly said:


> Changing your outlook is scary, and hard, learning to trust is scary, and hard. You need guidance, and maybe some emotional tools. Get a good therapist, and this time, listen to him/her. You are going to really have to want to do this, and commit yourself to a real, hard effort. It may not come quickly, but it will come. They can guide you, but YOU still have to do the work.



Part of the problem is that I have very little faith in the mental health profession. Due to some things going on right now, that's probably going to have to wait a little while, until I'm hopefully relocated to a different area of the country (later this year, with any luck). I will keep that advice in mind. 



The Gadfly said:


> If you're bouncing from hobby to hobby, and interest to interest to feel good, something is missing. I have a pretty good idea what, but you're going to have to figure that out for yourself (and when you do, you will understand why).



Yes something is missing.... success and/or a feeling of achievement sufficient to make me feel that the effort is worthwhile. 



The Gadfly said:


> I know what you think giving, and caring about others, got you. That happens to everyone, actually; the world is full of ungrateful people. Here's a hint, when you think you're given and cared,all you can, give and care more. Sooner or later, it will bring something good your way; it doesn't always go quite so unnoticed as you think. If nothing else, if you genuinely care about others, (not just for what you think you might get from it) it's hard to think about yourself so much, and that's a good thing. Just remember: a kind word, costs you exactly nothing; a bit of encouragement, costs you nothing.A little compassion, costs you nothing. Try it; it takes getting used to, when your focus is on you, but you might even like it. Our little conversations here, have cost me the time it took to write, and a bit of thought, for which I want....not the first thing from you, not a thing. You see, caring for others only takes up time I might spend worrying about my own problems (I still have some, of course), and that is of more than enough benefit to me, to be worth it.



This is one of those things where I'm something of a dicotomy. There are a certain, select few people who I am very giving and caring and wonderful to. Those few close friends and acquaintances of mine that I really do care about. These are people who I believe deserve my friendship, my assistance, and my caring. The people who I would kill and/or die for. There aren't many of them, but there are a few. No, they aren't all middle class yuppie suburbanites either. In fact most of them tend to be lower middle class people who do need a hand, and a friend. However, I will go out of my way to avoid giving any assistance to anyone who I don't believe deserves it. 



The Gadfly said:


> I know this is a stupid suggestion, but go to church anyway, no matter how angry you are with God. It may feel useless, but the fact is, it can't hurt you; besides, you know the kind of woman you think you want? Well, you're more likely to find one of those, in a church, than in a bar. Sorry, but that's where the more "traditional " women are. If the mountain will not come to Mohammed, then Mohammed must go to the mountain, and all that. Not the quickest place to get laid, but since that's not your priority.....As a matter of fact, guess where I met my wife?



I attend services occasionally with family and friends. I don't go on my own anymore. I enjoy the liturgy and the message, but I can't get past what I see as the philosophical disconnect between a loving God and one who can allow some of the things that happen here on Earth to occur. Besides, I'm more a fan of the Old Testament God than the New Testament God. Thanks for the suggestion, though; and I know that's where I'm more likely to find the sort of woman I'm looking for.



The Gadfly said:


> P.S. That date, 8/22/01 and time; Was that when you lost your dad?  I think you said that was ten years ago . Is that, why you're so angry with God, or is it something else? Anyway, I meant to tell you earlier that I'm sorry for your loss, and sorry another one of my brothers left us far too soon. Every man and woman who served there, is special to me.



You're 100% correct, Gadfly. 8/22/1947 - 8/22/2001. Within about three hours on the TOB and TOD as well. 54 years, almost to the hour, after almost three years of pain and suffering that were caused because he put the needs of his country, his family, his God, his church, and his friends about his own interests. At the moment in his life when he was finally going to be able to start living for himself and my mom; their duties as parents finally pretty much over, the most truly Faithful and Good person I've ever met is cut down. If HE didn't deserve any amount of divine Mercy or Blessing, there's sure as hell no way that someone like me, who will never be 1/10th the man my father was could ever get anything good from God.

Thank you for the kind words.


----------



## HUGGY

The Gadfly said:


> Anachronism,
> In no particular order;
> 
> Thanks for the thanks, but I'm no hero, though I served with men who were. I'm just one more man who walked into hell, and was lucky enough to walk out of it.
> 
> *One of the first things I lost in Vietnam, was my religion.* It didn't seem like there was any God looking over anyone in that place. I couldn't imagine anything resembling the God I was taught of allowing human suffering. or human depravity like I saw there. Horrors beyond words, or comprehension, things you couldn't imagine in the blackest hottest pit in hell, much less on earth; the kind as stark and vivid after forty years, as when they were fresh. This one village, and what the Cong did there; I wouldn't want my worst enemy to see that, not ever. When it makes the most hardened professional soldiers puke....not a thing you even want to imagine. No atheists in a foxhole? Well, after that, there sure was one Agnostic in mine! It was only years later I got my faith back and it was a struggle to ever believe again, but now, I do, and it is a great comfort to me, I don't know how you lost yours, but somehow, some way, I really hope you find it again. It really does ease the burden, and there is a comfort in it, that's not to be had elsewhere. I was so terribly angry with God, maybe you are too; but maybe, as mine was, your God is too small.
> 
> You move a pile of rocks, carefully, one at a time, until you have them all flat on the ground; THEN, you can rearrange them.
> 
> That voice in your head, the one that tries to tell you you're better than that-start listening to it; that's the part of you that still hopes speaking.
> 
> Changing your outlook is scary, and hard, learning to trust is scary, and hard. You need guidance, and maybe some emotional tools. Get a good therapist, and this time, listen to him/her. You are going to really have to want to do this, and commit yourself to a real, hard effort. It may not come quickly, but it will come. They can guide you, but YOU still have to do the work.
> 
> If you're bouncing from hobby to hobby, and interest to interest to feel good, something is missing. I have a pretty good idea what, but you're going to have to figure that out for yourself (and when you do, you will understand why).
> 
> I know what you think giving, and caring about others, got you. That happens to everyone, actually; the world is full of ungrateful people. Here's a hint, when you think you're given and cared,all you can, give and care more. Sooner or later, it will bring something good your way; it doesn't always go quite so unnoticed as you think. If nothing else, if you genuinely care about others, (not just for what you think you might get from it) it's hard to think about yourself so much, and that's a good thing. Just remember: a kind word, costs you exactly nothing; a bit of encouragement, costs you nothing.A little compassion, costs you nothing. Try it; it takes getting used to, when your focus is on you, but you might even like it. Our little conversations here, have cost me the time it took to write, and a bit of thought, for which I want....not the first thing from you, not a thing. You see, caring for others only takes up time I might spend worrying about my own problems (I still have some, of course), and that is of more than enough benefit to me, to be worth it.
> 
> I know this is a stupid suggestion, but go to church anyway, no matter how angry you are with God. It may feel useless, but the fact is, it can't hurt you; besides, you know the kind of woman you think you want? Well, you're more likely to find one of those, in a church, than in a bar. Sorry, but that's where the more "traditional " women are. If the mountain will not come to Mohammed, then Mohammed must go to the mountain, and all that. Not the quickest place to get laid, but since that's not your priority.....As a matter of fact, guess where I met my wife?
> 
> P.S. That date, 8/22/01 and time; Was that when you lost your dad?  I think you said that was ten years ago . Is that, why you're so angry with God, or is it something else? Anyway, I meant to tell you earlier that I'm sorry for your loss, and sorry another one of my brothers left us far too soon. Every man and woman who served there, is special to me.



You couldn't find God in yo little fox hole?


----------



## The Gadfly

Anachronism,

I see that there are some things I need to explain to you further, that I believe may be helpful. I want to think, just a bit, before I do, because I want to find the clearest way to get the concepts across. I'll respond, in a little while.


----------



## Momanohedhunter

I am a married man and I have been well behaved. I think if I play my cards right I may have some sex tonight.


----------



## High_Gravity

Momanohedhunter said:


> I am a married man and I have been well behaved. I think if I play my cards right I may have some sex tonight.



Married people have sex?


----------



## Momanohedhunter

High_Gravity said:


> Momanohedhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a married man and I have been well behaved. I think if I play my cards right I may have some sex tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Married people have sex?
Click to expand...


Yes. a bunch of it for the whole 17 years we have been married.


----------



## percysunshine

When men don't wan't sex? 

During the final four...unless she can sink a half court shot....


----------



## beamoflites

awesome thread!


----------



## avos

Samson said:


> is the main reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porn. The Internet has made porn much more accessible - and the frequent masturbation it triggers may be making men too worn out for sex with a real partner. As Ive discussed before in this blog, men are masturbating 50 to 500 percent more than they would normally without Internet porn. So if a guy normally masturbated once a day, he might now be doing it two or three times a day. If he masturbated three times a week, he might now be getting graphic with his graphics 15 times a week. If youre 17 and single, this might not be a problem.
> 
> 
> But if youre 40 and toting a gut, its an issue - a real issue. Some guys may still feel mentally like theyre 17 years old, but they cant have sex that way. Their bodies have changed and so have their refractory periods, the natural interval between erections. Guys with low desire may simply lack the mojo for real sex because theyre depleted from masturbation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STOP JERKING OFF DAMNIT!!!
Click to expand...


Porn is basically the reason why men nowadays, usually refuses to have sex with their partners. Since they can do their own thing. Though I think that its a good thing because this can somehow ruin a good relationship.


----------

