# Favorite Philosopher?



## Michelle420

Who is your favorite Philosopher and why?

How did you come into learning about them and what is their particular philosophical belief that struck a chord with you?

If no favorite is there one Philosopher you just can't stand, if yes who and why?


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## Mr. H.

Popeye of course...


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## Oddball

Robert Nozick.


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## Toro

Jack Handey.

Jack Handy quotes


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## Michelle420

Toro said:


> Jack Handey.
> 
> Jack Handy quotes



Because of the humor?


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> Robert Nozick.



I haven't studied him or heard of him, what made him stand out for you, was there a particular paper book or lecture on him or from him that left an impression? 

I'd like to look it up and read it.


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## Michelle420

Mr. H. said:


> Popeye of course...



Because he's a sailor or old school thought< humor seems to matter alot for some in choices of philosophy.


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## Oddball

drifter said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Nozick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't studied him or heard of him, what made him stand out for you, was there a particular paper book or lecture on him or from him that left an impression?
> 
> I'd like to look it up and read it.
Click to expand...


Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick | Questia, Your Online Research Library

I also read about 1/3 of "Invariances"...It made me look up and learn so much new stuff I sort of lost track of where the book goes...I'll pick it up again one day.

The Mises Review: Invariances: The Structure of the Objective World by Robert Nozick


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Nozick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't studied him or heard of him, what made him stand out for you, was there a particular paper book or lecture on him or from him that left an impression?
> 
> I'd like to look it up and read it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick | Questia, Your Online Research Library
> 
> I also read about 1/3 of "Invariances"...It made me look up and learn so much new stuff I sort of lost track of where the book goes...I'll pick it up again one day.
> 
> The Mises Review: Invariances: The Structure of the Objective World by Robert Nozick
Click to expand...


I can't access the data in ful from the first link I will check and see if there is a kindle version at amazon.

Per the second link I like this excerpt:





> Nozicks remarks on libertarianism, though brief, are full of interest. He distinguishes several layers of ethics: "The first layer is the ethics of respect, which corresponds to an (extended) ethics mandating cooperation to mutual benefit. Here there are rules and principles mandating respecting another (adult) persons life and autonomy, forbidding murder and enslavement, restricting interference with a persons domain of choice, and issuing in a set of (what have been termed negative) rights" (p. 280, emphasis removed).* Other layers, such as the ethics of caring, go beyond the duty of noninterference with others and call for positive aid to them.*



In particular what I put in bold.

I always have an impression that libertarians are out for themselves in a need for self-sufficiency and liberty I sometimes think they do not care for others who have a viewpoint of wanting a more cooperative society and less individualistic.

It sounds like from his brief excerpts his focus is on respecting others choices should be an interesting read.


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## Oddball

drifter said:


> I always have an impression that libertarians are out for themselves in a need for self-sufficiency and liberty I sometimes think they do not care for others who have a viewpoint of wanting a more cooperative society and less individualistic.


Problem being that these "cooperative" societies have almost always degenerated into abject tyranny....Besides that, the word "cooperation" implies consent, not compulsion.


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always have an impression that libertarians are out for themselves in a need for self-sufficiency and liberty I sometimes think they do not care for others who have a viewpoint of wanting a more cooperative society and less individualistic.
> 
> 
> 
> Problem being that these "cooperative" societies have almost always degenerated into abject tyranny....Besides that, the word "cooperation" implies consent, not compulsion.
Click to expand...


Since we are collectively socially constructed into a given society depending on where we are born sort of determines cooperation levels. 

This country promotes competition and individualism as a way of distinguishing separatism and measuring success ( a great social construct, who determines what success is? You think it is the individual or is success manufactured by media and other forms of society?) which is also determined by those consenting to the propoganda of it all.

There is absolutely no reason anyone should live in poor conditions imo since we have the ability and resources to feed clothes and shelter everyone.

Don't get me wrong, I am completely torn about it because I like my liberty and freedom to think and do what I want.


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## Oddball

Did you miss the aftermath of the 2004 earthquake/tsunami, where the charity of the American people acted more quickly and with far more money and effectiveness than did our own federal gubmint?

How about the aftermath of Katrina, when Home Depot and Wal Mart got more needed supplies to people far more quickly and efficiently than FEMA could ever hope to do on their best day?

You leave people to be free and they'll know who is truly in need and be more than willing to help.


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> Did you miss the aftermath of the 2004 earthquake/tsunami, where the charity of the American people acted more quickly and with far more money and effectiveness than did our own federal gubmint?
> 
> How about the aftermath of Katrina, when Home Depot and Wal Mart got more needed supplies to people far more quickly and efficiently than FEMA could ever hope to do on their best day?
> 
> You leave people to be free and they'll know who is truly in need and be more than willing to help.



That must not be entirely true, otherwise during the depression people would have helped each other and FDR would not have responded to a need by creating social programs.

I found the book State, and Utopia: Robert Nozick on google scholar for free if anyone else reading the thread would like to peruse through it.


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## Oddball

drifter said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss the aftermath of the 2004 earthquake/tsunami, where the charity of the American people acted more quickly and with far more money and effectiveness than did our own federal gubmint?
> 
> How about the aftermath of Katrina, when Home Depot and Wal Mart got more needed supplies to people far more quickly and efficiently than FEMA could ever hope to do on their best day?
> 
> You leave people to be free and they'll know who is truly in need and be more than willing to help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That must not be entirely true, *otherwise during the depression people would have helped each other and FDR would not have responded to a need by creating social programs.*
Click to expand...

Fallacious affirmation of the consequent argument...People tired and did help one another, and FDR's programs were an unqualified disaster, let alone completely unconstitutional.

Great Myths of the Great Depression [Mackinac Center]


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## uscitizen

Favorite philosopher?

Maybe Gallagher?


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss the aftermath of the 2004 earthquake/tsunami, where the charity of the American people acted more quickly and with far more money and effectiveness than did our own federal gubmint?
> 
> How about the aftermath of Katrina, when Home Depot and Wal Mart got more needed supplies to people far more quickly and efficiently than FEMA could ever hope to do on their best day?
> 
> You leave people to be free and they'll know who is truly in need and be more than willing to help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That must not be entirely true, *otherwise during the depression people would have helped each other and FDR would not have responded to a need by creating social programs.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fallacious affirmation of the consequent argument...People tired and did help one another, and FDR's programs were an unqualified disaster, let alone completely unconstitutional.
> 
> Great Myths of the Great Depression [Mackinac Center]
Click to expand...


No possible way for me to read all that in this moment and reply to your post.

Tell me a synopsis in your own words so I can respond.


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## Oddball

Read it at your own leisure.

A lot of "facts" about the Great Depression are myths and outright political propaganda.


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> Read it at your own leisure.
> 
> A lot of "facts" about the Great Depression are myths and outright political propaganda.



I am going to read Robert first.

It may be a while before I get to the other.

I recommend to anyone who likes reading "Class & Power in the new deal, Corporate Moderates, Southern democrats and the Liberal -Labor coalition" by Domhoff & Webber.


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## Mr. H.

drifter said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Popeye of course...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because he's a sailor or old school thought< humor seems to matter alot for some in choices of philosophy.
Click to expand...


It was the first thing that popped into my noggin'. 
40 years ago I was taking a Philosophy test in college. I forget who we were studying at the time, or the question on the test. But in my answer, I referenced Popeye and his famous quote. It was an accurate analogy to that philosopher's teachings. I was right, but the prof gave me a failing grade LOL.


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## del

Oddball said:


> Read it at your own leisure.
> 
> A lot of "facts" about the Great Depression are myths and outright political propaganda.








you tell em, fraudy


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## Michelle420

del said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read it at your own leisure.
> 
> A lot of "facts" about the Great Depression are myths and outright political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you tell em, fraudy
Click to expand...


I like your signature quote.


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## Michelle420

Mr. H. said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Popeye of course...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because he's a sailor or old school thought< humor seems to matter alot for some in choices of philosophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was the first thing that popped into my noggin'.
> 40 years ago I was taking a Philosophy test in college. I forget who we were studying at the time, or the question on the test. But in my answer, I referenced Popeye and his famous quote. It was an accurate analogy to that philosopher's teachings. I was right, but the prof gave me a failing grade LOL.
Click to expand...


I hate Professors that get caught up in systematic institutionalized thinking, good for you in bucking that system.


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## del

to be is to do. kant

to do is to be. sartre

do be do be do. sinatra


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## Mr. H.

drifter said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because he's a sailor or old school thought< humor seems to matter alot for some in choices of philosophy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was the first thing that popped into my noggin'.
> 40 years ago I was taking a Philosophy test in college. I forget who we were studying at the time, or the question on the test. But in my answer, I referenced Popeye and his famous quote. It was an accurate analogy to that philosopher's teachings. I was right, but the prof gave me a failing grade LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate Professors that get caught up in systematic institutionalized thinking, good for you in bucking that system.
Click to expand...


Like you say, humor seems to matter for some. 

I often inerject humor throughout my expressions and observations in life. 

Even Alfred Hitchcock is quoted as saying Puns are the highest form of literature.


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## Michelle420

Mr. H. said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the first thing that popped into my noggin'.
> 40 years ago I was taking a Philosophy test in college. I forget who we were studying at the time, or the question on the test. But in my answer, I referenced Popeye and his famous quote. It was an accurate analogy to that philosopher's teachings. I was right, but the prof gave me a failing grade LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate Professors that get caught up in systematic institutionalized thinking, good for you in bucking that system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like you say, humor seems to matter for some.
> 
> I often inerject humor throughout my expressions and observations in life.
> 
> Even Alfred Hitchcock is quoted as saying &#8220;Puns are the highest form of literature.&#8221;
Click to expand...


Sure, I remember when a friend of our family was murdered and we were all in shock and feeling pretty bad, that right in the middle of that pain someone speculated about who did the murder and for some reason humorous suggestions were made, ( it wasn't really funny) but it was like a laughing over the crying kind of thing.

Humor is pretty powerful.


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## Mr. H.

Yup.

Anyhow- sorry to sidetrack your thread. I've got nothing substantive to contribute. Other than required college reading, I've not studied philosophy. 

Carry on...


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## Dreamy

Some humorists and stand-up comedians are very much the equivalent of what would be termed philosophers of today. Alive and dead.

Will Rogers
George Carlin
Bill Cosby



First to come to mind for me on the favorite list:

John Stuart Mill


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## Michelle420

Mr. H. said:


> Yup.
> 
> Anyhow- sorry to sidetrack your thread. I've got nothing substantive to contribute. Other than required college reading, I've not studied philosophy.
> 
> Carry on...



I let my threads go wherever they go.....

Be well !


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## Mr. H.

Dreamy said:


> Some humorists and stand-up comedians are very much the equivalent of what would be termed philosophers of today. Alive and dead.
> 
> Will Rogers
> George Carlin
> Bill Cosby
> 
> 
> 
> First to come to mind for me on the favorite list:
> 
> John Stuart Mill



Like Sam Clem aka Mark Twat?


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## Missourian

Marcus Aurelius
Augustine of Hippo


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## dblack

drifter said:


> I always have an impression that libertarians are out for themselves in a need for self-sufficiency and liberty I sometimes think they do not care for others who have a viewpoint of wanting a more cooperative society and less individualistic.
> 
> It sounds like from his brief excerpts his focus is on respecting others choices should be an interesting read.



I suspect a good many libertarians would surprise you on this front. Most of those I've known and associated with aren't individualists in the sense you're referring to (rugged, self-sufficient, loners, etc...). And most of us are very pro-community. We're just anti-bullying, in all its forms, even if it supposedly benefits society.


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## Michelle420

dblack said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always have an impression that libertarians are out for themselves in a need for self-sufficiency and liberty I sometimes think they do not care for others who have a viewpoint of wanting a more cooperative society and less individualistic.
> 
> It sounds like from his brief excerpts his focus is on respecting others choices should be an interesting read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect a good many libertarians would surprise you on this front. Most of those I've known and associated with aren't individualists in the sense you're referring to (rugged, self-sufficient, loners, etc...). And most of us are very pro-community. We're just anti-bullying, in all its forms, even if it supposedly benefits society.
Click to expand...


I don't mean to give the wrong impression my best friend is a libertarian.

I told him our ideologies may clash so much that it could effect our relationship.

This is why I have to come here to talk about things on my mind philosophically or politically, because here it is impersonal. 

Libertarians say they want the states rights to rule.

But did you know that 13 states never ratified the era for women?

Why not break away from the union and have your own country then?

There are benefits to the Federal Government in my opinion and one of them is protecting the underdog, something I haven't seen very many states talk about.

What are your feelings on civil laws?


Tell me about your favorite philosopher.....


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## dblack

drifter said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always have an impression that libertarians are out for themselves in a need for self-sufficiency and liberty I sometimes think they do not care for others who have a viewpoint of wanting a more cooperative society and less individualistic.
> 
> It sounds like from his brief excerpts his focus is on respecting others choices should be an interesting read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect a good many libertarians would surprise you on this front. Most of those I've known and associated with aren't individualists in the sense you're referring to (rugged, self-sufficient, loners, etc...). And most of us are very pro-community. We're just anti-bullying, in all its forms, even if it supposedly benefits society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't mean to give the wrong impression my best friend is a libertarian.
> 
> I told him our ideologies may clash so much that it could effect our relationship.
> 
> This is why I have to come here to talk about things on my mind philosophically or politically, because here it is impersonal.
> 
> Libertarians say they want the states rights to rule.
> 
> But did you know that 13 states never ratified the era for women?
> 
> Why not break away from the union and have your own country then?
> 
> There are benefits to the Federal Government in my opinion and one of them is protecting the underdog, something I haven't seen very many states talk about.
> 
> What are your feelings on civil laws?
> 
> 
> Tell me about your favorite philosopher.....
Click to expand...


My favorites are Daniel Dennett and Douglas Hofstadter. Though my son refers to them (derisively) as 'scientists' and not philosophers. (he's working on his PhD in the topic.)

Hofstadter wrote my favorite book ("Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid"), and Dennett has written several books on the nature of consciousness, religion, free will, etc...


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## emptystep

One of the very few books I kept from my college days.


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## emptystep




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## Big Black Dog

My father.  He had everything all figured out.


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## emptystep

Big Black Dog said:


> My father.  He had everything all figured out.



Wait until you hit your teenage years.


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## Michelle420

dblack said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect a good many libertarians would surprise you on this front. Most of those I've known and associated with aren't individualists in the sense you're referring to (rugged, self-sufficient, loners, etc...). And most of us are very pro-community. We're just anti-bullying, in all its forms, even if it supposedly benefits society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean to give the wrong impression my best friend is a libertarian.
> 
> I told him our ideologies may clash so much that it could effect our relationship.
> 
> This is why I have to come here to talk about things on my mind philosophically or politically, because here it is impersonal.
> 
> Libertarians say they want the states rights to rule.
> 
> But did you know that 13 states never ratified the era for women?
> 
> Why not break away from the union and have your own country then?
> 
> There are benefits to the Federal Government in my opinion and one of them is protecting the underdog, something I haven't seen very many states talk about.
> 
> What are your feelings on civil laws?
> 
> 
> Tell me about your favorite philosopher.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My favorites are Daniel Dennett and Douglas Hofstadter. Though my son refers to them (derisively) as 'scientists' and not philosophers. (he's working on his PhD in the topic.)
> 
> Hofstadter wrote my favorite book ("Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid"), and Dennett has written several books on the nature of consciousness, religion, free will, etc...
Click to expand...



Looks interesting science and zen


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## Michelle420

emptystep said:


>



Lucy sure was bossy, Snoopy cracks me up


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## waltky

Granny...

... hands down...

... `cause she been around the block an' back.


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## Michelle420

waltky said:


> Granny...
> 
> ... hands down...
> 
> ... `cause she been around the block an' back.



Grandmothers have a lot of great insight, I wish mine were still living.


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## emptystep

That right there is the philosophy of mud or as my wife calls it, my 'redneck tendencies'. In our culture we have 87 different words for 'mud'. That is boot-suckin' mud.


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## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> That right there is the philosophy of mud or as my wife calls it, my 'redneck tendencies'. In our culture we have 87 different words for 'mud'. That is boot-suckin' mud.




Liber mud 

LIBER MUD: The MUD as a Basis for Western Mysticism

Liber MUD: The MUD as a Basis for Western Mysticism


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## Oddball

Here's one from French revolutionary Frédéric Bastiat...Easy to read and digest.

*The Law, by Frederic Bastiat*


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> Here's one from French revolutionary Frédéric Bastiat...Easy to read and digest.
> 
> *The Law, by Frederic Bastiat*



Very Cool, Thanks


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## Sherry

Dreamy said:


> Some humorists and stand-up comedians are very much the equivalent of what would be termed philosophers of today. Alive and dead.
> 
> Will Rogers
> George Carlin
> Bill Cosby
> 
> 
> 
> First to come to mind for me on the favorite list:
> 
> John Stuart Mill



The first one who came to my mind was Steven Wright.


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## emptystep

drifter said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> That right there is the philosophy of mud or as my wife calls it, my 'redneck tendencies'. In our culture we have 87 different words for 'mud'. That is boot-suckin' mud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liber mud
> 
> LIBER MUD: The MUD as a Basis for Western Mysticism
> 
> Liber MUD: The MUD as a Basis for Western Mysticism
Click to expand...


No, No, dude. Mud, as in dirt + water = mud. (I'm just messing with ya. )


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## emptystep

Sherry said:


> Dreamy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some humorists and stand-up comedians are very much the equivalent of what would be termed philosophers of today. Alive and dead.
> 
> Will Rogers
> George Carlin
> Bill Cosby
> 
> 
> 
> First to come to mind for me on the favorite list:
> 
> John Stuart Mill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first one who came to my mind was Steven Wright.
Click to expand...


Richard Pryor - parental discretion advised 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjD4PHojNBU]It's Richard Pryor running down the street. - YouTube[/ame]


> On June 9, 1980, Pryor set himself on fire after freebasing cocaine while drinking 151-proof rum. He ran down Parthenia St. from his Northridge, California home until subdued by police. He was taken to the hospital, where he was treated for the burns covering more than half of his body. Pryor spent six weeks in recovery at the Grossman Burn Center at Sherman Oaks Hospital.
> 
> .......At the end of the bit, he poked fun at people who told jokes about it by waving a lit match and saying, "What's this? It's Richard Pryor running down the street."


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## Michelle420

The Truth Contest | What is the Ultimate Truth?


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## Michelle420

[ame=http://youtu.be/uX9Z9V21SwI]Alan Watts - The Million Masks Of God. - YouTube[/ame]


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## hjmick

My dad.


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> Here's one from French revolutionary Frédéric Bastiat...Easy to read and digest.
> 
> *The Law, by Frederic Bastiat*



He's an economist


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## midcan5

Lots of Favorites and whys and quotes. May just change the way you see the world. 

Ludwig Wittgenstein - we only know (understand) the world through language
Derek Parfit - complexity of moral choices - ethics for the heavy
Jeremy Waldron - arguments for liberalism
Mark Kingwell - contemporary observer of culture
Stanley Fish - you only agree if you already agree if you
John Rawls - what justice would be if we could choose
Peter Singer - extreme choices 
Isaiah Berlin - types of liberty
Karl Popper - society and conformity 
Adam Swift - educator 
Roland Barthes - power of images and their references
Michel Foucault - changing ideas of madness etc
Jean-Paul Sartre - existentialism
Albert Camus - novelist of the absurd

Dislikes:  Robert Nozick - narcissistic materialist with empty excuses for why. 

A few excellent blogs. Check top four.

Leiter Reports: A Philosophy Blog
Rust Belt Philosophy
The Contemporary Condition
The Philosopher's Stone

Others:
The Partially Examined Life | A Philosophy Podcast and Philosophy Blog
The Splintered Mind
Crooked Timber ? Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made
3:AM Magazine
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
The Ethical Werewolf
Flickers of Freedom
Samir Chopra « A brain-droppings collection space
logicandlanguage.net

"One thinks that one is tracing the outline of the thing's nature, and one is merely tracing round the frame through which we look at it"  Wittgenstein

"Ideally citizens are to think of themselves as if they were legislators and ask themselves what statutes, supported by what reasons satisfying the criterion of reciprocity, they would think is most reasonable to enact." John Rawls

"Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron

"Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs." Isaiah Berlin 

"It is not enough to ask, Will my act harm other people? Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people? The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit 

"I hold to the idea that civility, understood as the willingness to engage in public discourse, is the first virtue of citizens."  Mark Kingwell

"Philosophers should consider the fact that the greatest happiness principle can easily be made an excuse for a benevolent dictatorship. We should replace it by a more modest and more realistic principle  the principle that the fight against avoidable misery should be a recognized aim of public policy, while the increase of happiness should be left, in the main, to private initiative." Karl Popper

"People know what they do; they frequently know why they do what they do; but what they dont know is what what they do does." Michel Foucault

"I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy." Albert Camus

"Language is legislation, speech is its code. We do not see the power which is in speech because we forget that all speech is a classification, and that all classifications are oppressive."  Roland Barthes 

"Can we be sure that our donation will really get to the people who need it? Doesnt most aid get swallowed up in administrative costs, or waste, or downright corruption? Isnt the real problem the growing world population, and is there any point in saving lives until the problem has been solved? These questions can all be answered: but I also point out that even if a substantial proportion of our donations were wasted, the cost to us of making the donation is so small, compared to the benefits that it provides when it, or some of it, does get through to those who need our help, that we would still be saving lives at a small cost to ourselves  even if aid organizations were much less efficient than they actually are."  Peter Singer 

"It is of no help to us that there is an absolute truth of the matter of things because unfortunately, none of us are in a position to say definitively what that is - although we all think that we are."  Stanley Fish 

"I know. I know that I shall never again meet anything or anybody who will inspire me with passion. You know, it's quite a job starting to love somebody. You have to have energy, generosity, blindness. There is even a moment, in the very beginning, when you have to jump across a precipice: if you think about it you don't do it. I know I'll never jump again."  Sartre 'Nausea'


"Adam Swifts Political Philosophy: A Beginners Guide for Students and Politicians"  Adam Swift?s Political Philosophy: A Beginner?s Guide for Students and Politicians ? Crooked Timber


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## Oddball

You forgot your favorite....Karl Marx.

dickweed.


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## Wry Catcher

"By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth."
George Carlin

"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
Will Rogers

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain


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## Michelle420

midcan5 said:


> Lots of Favorites and whys and quotes. May just change the way you see the world.
> 
> Ludwig Wittgenstein - we only know (understand) the world through language
> *Derek Parfit - complexity of moral choices - ethics for the heavy*
> Jeremy Waldron - arguments for liberalism
> Mark Kingwell - contemporary observer of culture
> Stanley Fish - you only agree if you already agree if you
> John Rawls - what justice would be if we could choose
> Peter Singer - extreme choices
> *Isaiah Berlin - types of liberty*
> *Karl Popper - society and conformity *
> Adam Swift - educator
> *Roland Barthes - power of images and their references
> Michel Foucault - changing ideas of madness etc*
> *Jean-Paul Sartre - existentialism*
> Albert Camus - novelist of the absurd
> 
> Dislikes:  Robert Nozick - narcissistic materialist with empty excuses for why.
> 
> A few excellent blogs. Check top four.
> 
> Leiter Reports: A Philosophy Blog
> Rust Belt Philosophy
> The Contemporary Condition
> The Philosopher's Stone
> 
> Others:
> The Partially Examined Life | A Philosophy Podcast and Philosophy Blog
> The Splintered Mind
> Crooked Timber ? Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made
> 3:AM Magazine
> Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
> The Ethical Werewolf
> Flickers of Freedom
> Samir Chopra « A brain-droppings collection space
> logicandlanguage.net
> 
> "One thinks that one is tracing the outline of the thing's nature, and one is merely tracing round the frame through which we look at it"  Wittgenstein
> 
> "Ideally citizens are to think of themselves as if they were legislators and ask themselves what statutes, supported by what reasons satisfying the criterion of reciprocity, they would think is most reasonable to enact." John Rawls
> 
> "Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron
> 
> "Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs." Isaiah Berlin
> 
> "It is not enough to ask, Will my act harm other people? Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people? The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit
> 
> "I hold to the idea that civility, understood as the willingness to engage in public discourse, is the first virtue of citizens."  Mark Kingwell
> 
> "Philosophers should consider the fact that the greatest happiness principle can easily be made an excuse for a benevolent dictatorship. We should replace it by a more modest and more realistic principle  the principle that the fight against avoidable misery should be a recognized aim of public policy, while the increase of happiness should be left, in the main, to private initiative." Karl Popper
> 
> "People know what they do; they frequently know why they do what they do; but what they dont know is what what they do does." Michel Foucault
> 
> "I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy." Albert Camus
> 
> "Language is legislation, speech is its code. We do not see the power which is in speech because we forget that all speech is a classification, and that all classifications are oppressive."  Roland Barthes
> 
> "Can we be sure that our donation will really get to the people who need it? Doesnt most aid get swallowed up in administrative costs, or waste, or downright corruption? Isnt the real problem the growing world population, and is there any point in saving lives until the problem has been solved? These questions can all be answered: but I also point out that even if a substantial proportion of our donations were wasted, the cost to us of making the donation is so small, compared to the benefits that it provides when it, or some of it, does get through to those who need our help, that we would still be saving lives at a small cost to ourselves  even if aid organizations were much less efficient than they actually are."  Peter Singer
> 
> "It is of no help to us that there is an absolute truth of the matter of things because unfortunately, none of us are in a position to say definitively what that is - although we all think that we are."  Stanley Fish
> 
> "I know. I know that I shall never again meet anything or anybody who will inspire me with passion. You know, it's quite a job starting to love somebody. You have to have energy, generosity, blindness. There is even a moment, in the very beginning, when you have to jump across a precipice: if you think about it you don't do it. I know I'll never jump again."  Sartre 'Nausea'
> 
> 
> "Adam Swifts Political Philosophy: A Beginners Guide for Students and Politicians"  Adam Swift?s Political Philosophy: A Beginner?s Guide for Students and Politicians ? Crooked Timber



Thanks for the reply, I bolded the one's that interest me off the bat, mostly because of the why's you listed for liking them.


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## Unkotare

If you've got a 'favorite,' you're missing the point.


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## Michelle420

Unkotare said:


> If you've got a 'favorite,' you're missing the point.



So there is a point, I knew it !


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## Oddball

drifter said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's one from French revolutionary Frédéric Bastiat...Easy to read and digest.
> 
> *The Law, by Frederic Bastiat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's an economist
Click to expand...

Would that necessarily preclude such a person from holding forth on matters of philosophy?.... The Law is a philosophical treatise, not at all unlike  F. A. Hayek's (an economist) seminal political philosophy work *The Road To Serfdom*.


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## midcan5

drifter said:


> Thanks for the reply, I bolded the one's that interest me off the bat, mostly because of the why's you listed for liking them.



Also check out A.C. Grayling's writing, good stuff. Lots on web, 'The Meaning of Things' is a good read. A.C. Grayling Quotes (Author of The Meaning of Things)

For specific topics, Oxford Shorts are usually excellent.  Oxford University Press: Very Short Introductions

Dig into this stuff slowly, some very heavy lifting. A few suggestions.

Parfit - Check 'Reasons and Persons' first. Parfit has allowed his current book, which is now two volumes, to be edited while providing the ongoing text on the internet free. His arguments are often long and dense. http://commonweb.unifr.ch/artsdean/pub/gestens/f/as/files/4610/17613_101712.pdf

Berlin - I especially enjoyed 'The Sense of Reality' check out 'The Hedgehog and the Fox.'  But his books on liberty and crooked timber are good also. Home page
http://berlin.wolf.ox.ac.uk/lists/onib/crowder/IBVPREL2003.pdf

Popper - 'Selections' or maybe browse 'Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledge' or 'The Poverty of Historicism.' Popper Selections by Karl R. Popper - Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists

Barthes - Since I do photography 'Camera Lucida: Reflections on Photography' was a must read. 'Image, Music, Text' too. I once owned most of his books but since gave to library. Roland Barthes (Author of Camera Lucida)

Foucault - 'Madness and Civilization: A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason' Books by Michel Foucault (Author of Discipline and Punish)

Sartre - Nausea and No Exist are interesting piece of the literature of existentialism. What do we mean by saying that existence precedes essence? We mean that man first of all exists, encounters himself, surges up in the world  and defines himself afterwards. If man as the existentialist sees him is not definable, it is because to begin with he is nothing. He will not be anything until later, and then he will be what he makes of himself. JPS


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## uscitizen

Why be a follower of anyone?
Be a leader if only a leader of yourself.


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## rightwinger

Yogi Berra


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## emptystep

drifter said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you've got a 'favorite,' you're missing the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there is a point, I knew it !
Click to expand...




"There are two sides to every argument, including this one."
- anonymous


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## emptystep

drifter, am I going too far off thread if I ask to also include favorite philosophical phrases/one-liners?

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it does it make a sound?" 
How the Hell would I know?
(Just made that one up. )


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## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> drifter, am I going too far off thread if I ask to also include favorite philosophical phrases/one-liners?
> 
> "If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it does it make a sound?"
> How the Hell would I know?
> (Just made that one up. )





It's a free-for-all type of thread


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## Michelle420

Oddball said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's one from French revolutionary Frédéric Bastiat...Easy to read and digest.
> 
> *The Law, by Frederic Bastiat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's an economist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would that necessarily preclude such a person from holding forth on matters of philosophy?.... The Law is a philosophical treatise, not at all unlike  F. A. Hayek's (an economist) seminal political philosophy work *The Road To Serfdom*.
Click to expand...


I am still reading your first recommendation. 

It takes me time because I read and then ponder and read.

Of course there are all kinds of philosophers, they all contribute something to think about.

I am just going through a life changing type of thing so I seem to gravitate to metaphysical philosophy right now.

But I really do appreciate your contribution


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## Unkotare

drifter said:


> I am just going through a life changing type of thing so I seem to gravitate to metaphysical philosophy right now.
> 
> But I really do appreciate your contribution





Ah yes, you've been in the news quite a bit:

Massachusetts judge rules for inmate's sex-change surgery - CNN.com


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## Michelle420

Unkotare said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am just going through a life changing type of thing so I seem to gravitate to metaphysical philosophy right now.
> 
> But I really do appreciate your contribution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah yes, you've been in the news quite a bit:
> 
> Massachusetts judge rules for inmate's sex-change surgery - CNN.com
Click to expand...


What a smart inmate change your sex change your prison, lots of sex


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## uscitizen

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you've got a 'favorite,' you're missing the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there is a point, I knew it !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There are two sides to every argument, including this one."
> - anonymous
Click to expand...


Often there are 3 sides.
both opposing views and the truth.


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## Unkotare

drifter said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am just going through a life changing type of thing so I seem to gravitate to metaphysical philosophy right now.
> 
> But I really do appreciate your contribution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah yes, you've been in the news quite a bit:
> 
> Massachusetts judge rules for inmate's sex-change surgery - CNN.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a smart inmate change your sex change your prison, lots of sex
Click to expand...




but...


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## Unkotare

uscitizen said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> So there is a point, I knew it !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There are two sides to every argument, including this one."
> - anonymous
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Often there are 3 sides.
> both opposing views and the truth.
Click to expand...




How very Hegelian of you.


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## newpolitics

Alan Watts


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## Michelle420

newpolitics said:


> Alan Watts



nice choice


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## Jimmy_Jam

I will go out on a limb and say Carl Jung. I know, not exactly a philosopher, but his work profoundly influenced, and was influenced by, philosophy. Philosophy guided his work, both physical and metaphysical aspects of it.

I particularly like his commentary on individual rights and the state. The following excerpt from Wikipedia provides a pretty decent summary:



> Jung stressed the importance of individual rights in a person's relation to the state and society. He saw that the state was treated as "a quasi-animate personality from whom everything is expected" but that this personality was "only camouflage for those individuals who know how to manipulate it", and referred to the state as a form of slavery. He also thought that the state "swallowed up [people's] religious forces", and therefore that the state had "taken the place of God"&#8212;making it comparable to a religion in which "state slavery is a form of worship". Jung observed that "stage acts of [the] state" are comparable to religious displays: "Brass bands, flags, banners, parades and monster demonstrations are no different in principle from ecclesiastical processions, cannonades and fire to scare off demons". From Jung's perspective, this replacement of God with the state in a mass society led to the dislocation of the religious drive and resulted in the same fanaticism of the church-states of the Dark Ages&#8212;wherein the more the state is 'worshipped', the more freedom and morality are suppressed; this ultimately leaves the individual psychically undeveloped with extreme feelings of marginalization.


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## Michelle420

Jimmy_Jam said:


> I will go out on a limb and say Carl Jung. I know, not exactly a philosopher, but his work profoundly influenced, and was influenced by, philosophy. Philosophy guided his work, both physical and metaphysical aspects of it.
> 
> I particularly like his commentary on individual rights and the state. The following excerpt from Wikipedia provides a pretty decent summary:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jung stressed the importance of individual rights in a person's relation to the state and society. He saw that the state was treated as "a quasi-animate personality from whom everything is expected" but that this personality was "only camouflage for those individuals who know how to manipulate it", and referred to the state as a form of slavery. He also thought that the state "swallowed up [people's] religious forces", and therefore that the state had "taken the place of God"making it comparable to a religion in which "state slavery is a form of worship". Jung observed that "stage acts of [the] state" are comparable to religious displays: "Brass bands, flags, banners, parades and monster demonstrations are no different in principle from ecclesiastical processions, cannonades and fire to scare off demons". From Jung's perspective, this replacement of God with the state in a mass society led to the dislocation of the religious drive and resulted in the same fanaticism of the church-states of the Dark Ageswherein the more the state is 'worshipped', the more freedom and morality are suppressed; this ultimately leaves the individual psychically undeveloped with extreme feelings of marginalization.
Click to expand...


I like Jung to, humans are unique in that they have a conscience and they are aware of their own mortality.


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## Unkotare

Only the good die Jung.


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## Jimmy_Jam

Unkotare said:


> Only the good die Jung.



What shape? 

(rep to anybody who can show that they get that joke)


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## Koios

drifter said:


> *Who is your favorite Philosopher and why?*
> 
> How did you come into learning about them and what is their particular philosophical belief that struck a chord with you?
> 
> If no favorite is there one Philosopher you just can't stand, if yes who and why?



Me.  I nearly always agree with him.


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## PretentiousGuy

Bertrand Russell at the moment... However I must confess; I really don't form philosophical crushes either an idea sticks with me or it doesn't.


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## Michelle420

PretentiousGuy said:


> Bertrand Russell at the moment... However I must confess; I really don't form philosophical crushes either an idea sticks with me or it doesn't.



[ame=http://youtu.be/OziPcicgmbw]Bertrand Russell 1/3 - YouTube[/ame]


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## M.D. Rawlings

Descartes, Locke and Berkeley.


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## ZenBubba

Two of my favorites are Wittgenstein and George Carlin.


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## rightwinger

Yogi Berra


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## edthecynic

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKkazr8M-n4]The Old Philosopher - Eddie Lawerence - YouTube[/ame]


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