# Ford's Solar Hybrid



## Star (Jan 3, 2014)

.
*Ford To Unveil Solar Hybrid Concept Car At CES* 

The C-Max Solar Energi Hybrid's estimated combined fuel economy is 100 mpg

Posted: Jan 02, 2014 
By: Associated Press






​The Ford C-MAX Solar Energi Hybrid (Ford Motor Co.).

Ford plans to unveil at this month's International CES gadget show a solar-powered concept car that offers the same performance as a plug-in hybrid but without the need for a plug.

The C-Max Solar Energi Concept car uses a gasoline engine combined with a gizmo that acts like a magnifying glass to concentrate the sun's rays on the vehicle's roof-mounted solar panels. The automaker says the vehicle's estimated combined city-highway mileage is 100 miles (160 kilometers) per gallon.

The U.S. auto maker says that by using solar power instead of an electric plug, a typical owner will reduce their annual greenhouse gas emissions by four metric tons.

The company says it sold about 85,000 hybrid or electric vehicles in 2013, including 6,300 units of its C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid.

The sun-ray concentrator was developed by researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology and uses what is known as a Fresnel lens, which concentrates light but can be made thinner than a conventional lens. A full day of sunshine is equivalent to a four-hour battery charge, or 8 kilowatts, Ford says.

On a full charge, it should have a range of 620 miles (997 kilometers), the same as the C-Max Energi. The concept car also comes with a plug-in port for standard electric charging.

Ford says that 75 percent of all trips made by an average driver could be powered by the sun.
After showing off the concept car at the convention in Las Vegas Jan. 7-10, Ford Motor Co. says that it will test the vehicle with institute researchers to determine if it's feasible for mass production.
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## Sallow (Jan 3, 2014)

Wow.

Ain't that something.

Government says you gotta make it, and corporations respond not only by making it..but by going beyond.

This must have oil companies in a panic, however.


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## GHook93 (Jan 3, 2014)

Let's hope it succeeds. I think it's a nice first step. However I bet they well over estimated that 100 mpg. It will probably be 75 mpg, which is still awesome!


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## GHook93 (Jan 3, 2014)

Sallow said:


> Wow.
> 
> Ain't that something.
> 
> ...



It has nothing to do with the government! Remember Ford took no bailout!

It's the oil producing countries that are nervous, aka the Islamist shitholes you jerk off to, Venezuela, Nigeria, Russia and Norway!


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## Star (Jan 3, 2014)

GHook93 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.
> ...


 
.
Because Ford too was in financial hot water Ford borrowed over $20 billion - good on Ford for planning ahead but-----but by borrowing from private institutions and being ahead of the curve, Ford essentially dried up the private money supply.
Even Ford's CEO, Alan Mulally lobbied for a government loan for Chrysler and GM - why? - because being a businessman he understood what vulture capitalist Mitt Romney didn't/doesn't i.e. if Chrysler/GM go down Ford's supply line and millions of consumer's jobs go down with them but that aside... I agree it's the carbon producing polluters that have to be nervous that American carbon suckers are looking for alternatives and-----and are getting over them. 


*Ford's CEO has no regrets about call for bailout - Los Angeles Times* 
But that ["managed bankruptcy"] ignores a crucial fact: Companies that are broke require money to keep operating, even while under the protection of a Bankruptcy Court. And as Ford's chief executive, Alan Mulally, pointed out during a visit with The Times' editorial board Tuesday, "There was nobody that was going to give them money for [debtor-in-possession] financing."

Mulally's comments weren't offered as a criticism of Romney. Rather, he was defending Ford's decision to go to Congress with GM and Chrysler in 2008 to call for a federal rescue. Ford didn't need the money itself -- it had previously arranged a multibillion-dollar line of private credit. But Mulally said he believed then, just as he believes now, that GM and Chrysler threatened to drag the entire country into a depression.

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## Old Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

GHook93 said:


> Let's hope it succeeds. I think it's a nice first step. However I bet they well over estimated that 100 mpg. It will probably be 75 mpg, which is still awesome!



I think that they are basing the 100 mpg figure on urban driving where most trips are well under 8 miles. With that setup, everybody's mileage would be differant due to differant driving patterns. But all would benefit. A very good idea, hope the cost is within reason.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 6, 2014)

Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.

Cute -- but I don't think it does anything to overcome the issues of range or cost. Particularly for URBAN driving..


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## RGR (Jan 6, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.
> 
> Cute -- but I don't think it does anything to overcome the issues of range or cost. Particularly for URBAN driving..



What works for me was employer giving away fuel from their PV array for free!! Unfortunately, I then moved on and that free fuel is no longer available to me. Damn!

EVing works great in my urban world, when I am forced to go there. I prefer EVing suburbia.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 6, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.
> 
> Cute -- but I don't think it does anything to overcome the issues of range or cost. Particularly for URBAN driving..



Never could see beyond the nose on your face, could you, Flat. The range with everything full up is 620 miles. It is a hybrid, not a pure EV. And that setup on the roof uses concentrating lenses, Fresnel lenses, so the angle of the sun is less critical. Anytime the vehicle is sitting outside it is collecting power. And for most urbanites, and suburbenites, that is enough to eleiminate the use of a lot of gasoline.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 6, 2014)

RGR said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.
> ...



Better not get used to tapping that free fuel..  They just busted one of you EV hoodlums for stealing 5 cents of juice from a grade school..


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## RGR (Jan 6, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> > What works for me was employer giving away fuel from their PV array for free!! Unfortunately, I then moved on and that free fuel is no longer available to me. Damn!
> ...



I did! Unfortunately, then I switched jobs and my new employer no longer has PV provided fuel.



			
				flacaltenn said:
			
		

> They just busted one of you EV hoodlums for stealing 5 cents of juice from a grade school..



I wasn't stealing. It was provided for employees, me and a Tesla guy were the only takers.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 6, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.
> ...



Bullshit..  indirect sunlight is worthless for charging.  So just "sitting outside " aint gonna do crap.  If youre parked in the shadow of a building or even a McDs Golden Arch, its gonna be less than a tenth of direct sunlight.

I think the engineering is very cool.  But its utility is akin to putting a spoiler on a Mini Cooper.

OK  --- maybe like buying 3 buck golf balls to give your driver a 10 yard edge.. At least that works sometimes...


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## Old Rocks (Jan 6, 2014)

A mini-cooper with a top end of 150 mph can use a spoiler to good effect.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 6, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> A mini-cooper with a top end of 150 mph can use a spoiler to good effect.



Now theres a good calibration point on your judgement 

Wouldnt want to get that Mini ass end airborne...  Would we?


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## keyboardwarrior (Jan 11, 2014)

wow. Nice car ...


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## Old Rocks (Jan 11, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > A mini-cooper with a top end of 150 mph can use a spoiler to good effect.
> ...



No, we wouldn't.

Electric Mini: 0-60 in 4 Seconds: It Has Motors In Its Wheels : TreeHugger

A British engineering firm has put together a high-performance hybrid version of BMW's Mini Cooper. The PML Mini QED has a top speed of 150 mph, a 0-60 mph time of 4.5 seconds. The car uses a small gasoline engine with four 160 horsepower electric motors  one on each wheel. The car has been designed to run for four hours of combined urban/extra urban driving, powered only by a battery and bank of ultra capacitors. The QED supports an all-electric range of 200-250 miles and has a total range of about 932 miles (1,500 km). For longer journeys at higher speeds, a small conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) is used to re-charge the battery. In this hybrid mode, fuel economies of up to 80mpg can be achieved.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 11, 2014)

Just for you..  I figured pink would cut down your speeding tickets..


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## westwall (Jan 11, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...










When electric vehicles can actually race under the same rules as an ICE vehicle I'll begin to take notice.  Right now the Isle of Man TT has an electric division so it's nice to see the level of progress they have made.  The sad truth of it is that their progress isn't much.

The regular bikes make 6 laps of the island at an average speed of around 128 mph.  The electric bikes make ONE circuit of the island and it took them three years to go from 89 mph average to breaking 100 mph average speed.  Now into 2014 they are up to 109 mph.  But, they still only have to make one circuit of the 37.7 mile course.

They have a LONG way to go.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 11, 2014)

Not expecting a  NASCAR EV circuit anytime soon.  If it dont roar, its not gonna draw.

Besides, im having conceptual issues with how you race a circuit with intense braking and motors in the wheels.  Ever see the wheels glow after a couple laps at Sonoma or Watkins Glen?  Even with regen braking ----  thats a whole level above street performance....


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## westwall (Jan 12, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Not expecting a  NASCAR EV circuit anytime soon.  If it dont roar, its not gonna draw.
> 
> Besides, im having conceptual issues with how you race a circuit with intense braking and motors in the wheels.  Ever see the wheels glow after a couple laps at Sonoma or Watkins Glen?  Even with regen braking ----  thats a whole level above street performance....








Yup.  I do like the what McLaren and some of the others are doing with their hybrid supercars however.  They run the normal high performance power pack but they are supplemented with electric motors in the front wheels that give a very efficient (notice greenies the emphasis on efficiency?) method of enjoying 4 wheel drive capability.

Of course they're bloody expensive (around a million for the P1) but they are the absolute cutting edge of hybrid tech.


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## longknife (Jan 12, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.
> 
> Cute -- but I don't think it does anything to overcome the issues of range or cost. Particularly for URBAN driving..



Yeah, makes me wonder how it would do in Portland, Seattle, or other places with heavy cloud covers.


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## RandomVariable (Jan 12, 2014)

There all kinds of ways the one vehicle does not solve the problem but I believe it signifies a huge milestone in the right direction. Score one for Ford.


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## Star (Jan 12, 2014)

longknife said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.
> ...


 

Reading comprehension problem?
The OP article and the article below addresses your projected - read that, made up problems/issues... the Ford C-MAX Hybrid even allows carbon-suckers to continue to suck.

*Ford estimates* that the sun could power about 75 percent of the trips taken by the average driver, all with same range and MPGe ratings of the C-MAX Hybrid. That means a full charge will have a range of 620 miles, 21 of those miles being purely electric with no support from the gasoline engine.

In case youre wondering what will happen if youre in a cloudy region of the country or have a few overcast days in your forecast, there is still a charging port. Owners can still plug it into the grid if they prefer.

.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 12, 2014)

Star said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



There is no reading comp problem on my part.  YOU might be susceptable to abuse from marketing and advertising because of math issues however...  

The only problem here,  is as you just pointed out,  there is no REAL NEED for this feature because it will not work for folks in highly urban settings or if they live in 60% of the geography of  America.   IDEALLY you COULD get about 20  solar miles a day.  IN REALITY, expect more like 15.   Not in the big city,  and in the burbs,  7 miles out and 7 miles back is not "average trip lengths. So my question to you is  Star  -----

How much more are you willing to PAY for this "feature???????


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## flacaltenn (Jan 12, 2014)

Hey Star..   Im not really trying to destroy any new brilliant ideas.. Truly im not.  Probably a Ford Cmax Hybrid is my next car...  BUT

Just found a better description of this solar version concept car..  I thought the lenses they were talking about were BUILT IN to the panels (ala Solyndra)   But in this article, theyy expllain the lenses are in a separate PARKING STRUCTURE    !!! !  !  



> http://mobile.extremetech.com/#/ele...-hybrid-car-can-charge-up-without-plugging-in
> 
> A Fresnel lens is a type of compact lens originally developed for use in lighthouses that acts as a magnifying glass. If you&#8217;re picturing a canopy of breakable glass ready to rain down on your car, think again. Frensel lenses are usually made from plastics like acrylic, so they are light and durable while also being cheap to make. When parked under the Fresnel lens canopy, the C-Max Solar Energi will track the sun and roll slowly backward or forward to keep the most intense area of solar energy concentrated on the panels.
> 
> Ford says that using this system the car can gain the equivalent of a four-hour plug-in charge (about 8 kilowatts) over the course of the day.*



I only looked it up because the charging rate didnt make sense for the panel size.

so im Really Sorry for being a buzz kill.  But this just went from interesting to "No Thanks".....


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## whitehall (Jan 29, 2014)

If the junk worked we would all be buzzing around in them. Nuff said.


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## Stephanie (Jan 29, 2014)

Sallow said:


> Wow.
> 
> Ain't that something.
> 
> ...



wow, you love you some government

Ford didn't need any money from YOUR DADDY government to come with this idea...they aren't like Gm.

How weird they can come up with idea's on THEIR OWN


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## Delta4Embassy (Jan 29, 2014)

Star said:


> .
> *Ford To Unveil Solar Hybrid Concept Car At CES*
> 
> The C-Max Solar Energi Hybrid's estimated combined fuel economy is 100 mpg
> ...



This'll be good if they actually make them sans gas engine. The weight savings would dramatically increase the appeal as it increases the electric-powered range and efficiency.

Trouble with electric cars that 'plug-in' is the electricity still has to come from either nuclear power or coal-burning power plants. So the benefit is probably negated by the fact that coal's still getting burned, and would necessitate more coal plants or nuclear power stations. 

But if you can power an electric vehicle purely from the sun, that's the best solution. Given the average driving range for commuters or shoppers, a 4 hour charge is more than sufficient to start. Get rid of the gasoline engine and that'd go up considerably.


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## whitehall (Jan 30, 2014)

It's easy to sense the desperation behind posts that pretend to drool over electric cars. The radical left has a lot of political capital riding on the concept. If you take away the political implications it seems that the public is lukewarm and the technology isn't there yet. If the junk works everybody will be using it so save your emotion lefties and let it happen or not.


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## Delta4Embassy (Jan 30, 2014)

If there's any political aspect to alt fuel vehicles it's only in how most politicians on both sides take money from energy companies be they oil or not. So trying to get the same level of governmental support for hybrid tech or all electric vehicles is an uphill climb. Fact remains though, we're gonna run out of oil eventually. Trying to design a new fuel vehicle and get it mass produced when everyone's stalled on the freeway is too late though. Like trying to de-ice Atlanta's freeways now instead of days ago.


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## westwall (Jan 30, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> If there's any political aspect to alt fuel vehicles it's only in how most politicians on both sides take money from energy companies be they oil or not. So trying to get the same level of governmental support for hybrid tech or all electric vehicles is an uphill climb. Fact remains though, we're gonna run out of oil eventually. Trying to design a new fuel vehicle and get it mass produced when everyone's stalled on the freeway is too late though. Like trying to de-ice Atlanta's freeways now instead of days ago.








We have enough oil for at least 150 years.  The problem with the current research is there is no punishment for failure.  The government, because the politicians are involved as investors, will throw good money after bad so that the investors don't lose their cash.  

This has the effect of slowing and in some cases reversing legitimate research programs.  The current EV technologies are no better than they were 25 years ago.  There has been VERY little innovation because they don't need to innovate, they just need to get a politician on their board of directors and they can milk the taxpayer.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 30, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> If there's any political aspect to alt fuel vehicles it's only in how most politicians on both sides take money from energy companies be they oil or not. So trying to get the same level of governmental support for hybrid tech or all electric vehicles is an uphill climb. Fact remains though, we're gonna run out of oil eventually. Trying to design a new fuel vehicle and get it mass produced when everyone's stalled on the freeway is too late though. Like trying to de-ice Atlanta's freeways now instead of days ago.



There is PLENTY of natural competition in the technologies. The govt doesn't NEED to be Daddy Warbucks for Fisker or Tesla.. In FACT -- the Koreans plan to skip battery wagon vehicles entirely and go to hydrogen fuel cells. Which I think is SPECTACULAR competition. 

THIS particular Ford car is a marketing gimmick and doesn't really add any solutions.. 
If you look at the blue diagram I posted on PG 2, you'll see the claims are based on a special "car port" with fresnel optics to get even the token 15 miles a day from a solar charge. Having to park under this structure and have the car roll itself back and forth to minimize the sun angle --- is NOT what America wants.


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## Stephanie (Jan 30, 2014)

whitehall said:


> It's easy to sense the desperation behind posts that pretend to drool over electric cars. The radical left has a lot of political capital riding on the concept. If you take away the political implications it seems that the public is lukewarm and the technology isn't there yet. If the junk works everybody will be using it so save your emotion lefties and let it happen or not.



no kidding, hey their Dear Leader pushes it so they march


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## bianco (Jan 30, 2014)

Star said:


> .
> *Ford To Unveil Solar Hybrid Concept Car At CES*
> 
> The C-Max Solar Energi Hybrid's estimated combined fuel economy is 100 mpg
> ...



Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Georgia Institute of Technology is to be congratulated.

Bet the oil companies nearly choked on their cornflakes when they read that.

Unfortunately, when they eventually go on sale in Australia I won't be buying one, because when they convert them to right hand drive they have the windscreen wiper stalk on the driver's door side where 'proper Australian cars' cars have the turn indicator stalk there.
I/we rest the gap between the large bone and smaller bone of our right elbows on the door, our hand on the wheel, and flick the turn indicator stalk with our finger/s.
In Ford Focus car the windscreen wipers come on instead of the turn lights!
It's veeeeery annoying!

Not in Toyotas.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 31, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> > If there's any political aspect to alt fuel vehicles it's only in how most politicians on both sides take money from energy companies be they oil or not. So trying to get the same level of governmental support for hybrid tech or all electric vehicles is an uphill climb. Fact remains though, we're gonna run out of oil eventually. Trying to design a new fuel vehicle and get it mass produced when everyone's stalled on the freeway is too late though. Like trying to de-ice Atlanta's freeways now instead of days ago.
> ...



Well, I guess we will see which the market chooses. Right now, the batteries seem to be winning hands down.


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## mamooth (Jan 31, 2014)

westwall said:


> We have enough oil for at least 150 years.



World total proven reserves, 1.64 trillion barrels.

World current consumption, 85 million barrels/day.

Doing the math ... 53 years. That's assuming no consumption increase.



> The current EV technologies are no better than they were 25 years ago.



GM EV1, 1996. Practical range of around 50 miles. Reliability sucked. Torque, 110 foot-pounds. 3-star safety rating.

Nissan Leaf, 2013. Practical range of around 100 miles. Good reliability. Torque, 187 foot-pounds. 4-star safety rating.


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## mamooth (Jan 31, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Well, I guess we will see which the market chooses. Right now, the batteries seem to be winning hands down.



The fuel cells only make sense if you make hydrogen out of natural gas, instead of using electricity to split water. Otherwise, it's

Fuel cell -- turn electricity to hydrogen, then turn hydrogen back to electricity.

Battery -- use electricity directly.

But then, if you're going to use natural gas, may as well use a natural gas combustion engine, as the bus fleets do in my city.


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## westwall (Jan 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > We have enough oil for at least 150 years.
> ...








How about the 1909 Bailey EV?  And that's oil that's already being pumped!  That does not include the newly found oil shales that number a further trillion or so barrels.

"Electric cars were cleaner, quieter and easier to drive than gasoline or steam automobiles. S.R. Bailey & Company built the Bailey Electric Phaeton in Amesbury, Massachusetts from 1907-1915. The company promoted its machines as cross-country vehicles capable of driving 100 miles on full charge under ideal conditions. This was an impressive claim since most electrics of the time had a limited drive time of 20-2 miles between battery charges."


1909 Bailey Electric | Conceptcarz.com


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## westwall (Jan 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I guess we will see which the market chooses. Right now, the batteries seem to be winning hands down.
> ...








Once again you think small.  HFC technology will advance to the point where they can hopefully just add water and boom, you're off.  For people who claim to be all about science and technology, you sure think 1880's.


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## mamooth (Jan 31, 2014)

westwall said:


> HFC technology will advance to the point where they can hopefully just add water and boom, you're off. For people who claim to be all about science and technology, you sure think 1880's.



Speaking of the 1880's, that would be when snake oil salesmen were attributing various types of magic to plain water. If you're going to invoke free endless energy from water, you may as well invoke a Mr. Fusion to power the Delorean.


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## mamooth (Jan 31, 2014)

westwall said:


> How about the 1909 Bailey EV?



As long as you're willing to drive a glorified horsecart in a circle on a smooth track at 20 mph with no heat, headlights or accessories, you could get 100 miles. The first time. Lead-acid batteries are degraded quickly by deep discharges, which is why the EV1's quickly dropped from their 100 mile spec to a 50 mile range.


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## westwall (Jan 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > HFC technology will advance to the point where they can hopefully just add water and boom, you're off. For people who claim to be all about science and technology, you sure think 1880's.
> ...








Tell that to Tesla why don't you?  Mankind's history is littered with people like you...what was it that Einstein said?????

Oh YEAH!.......................


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## westwall (Jan 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > How about the 1909 Bailey EV?
> ...







You mean just like the LEAF today?

*Car driven from London to Edinburgh for FREE thanks to new network of electric charging points (but it did take 12 hours and needed recharging nine times)*


Nissan Leaf electric car driven from London to Edinburgh for FREE | Mail Online


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## jon_berzerk (Jan 31, 2014)

Star said:


> .
> *Ford To Unveil Solar Hybrid Concept Car At CES*
> 
> The C-Max Solar Energi Hybrid's estimated combined fuel economy is 100 mpg
> ...



*plug-in hybrid but without the need for a plug*

miles ahead of government motors


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## jon_berzerk (Jan 31, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Typical EV uses about 1/3KWhr per mile.. So 8KWhr for "a full day in the sunshine" is about 24 miles or 0.6 gallon of gasoline. That's OK -- but its no freaking solution.. Particularly if you cant park in direct sunshine for 6 or 8 hours a day.. Even ANGLE of incidence and partial shade will destroy that advantage.
> 
> Cute -- but I don't think it does anything to overcome the issues of range or cost. Particularly for URBAN driving..



range is the problem 

that is why i like electric hydrogen fuel cells 

uses absolutely no fossil fuels 

and gets a couple of hundred miles between fills 

fills which btw takes minutes not hours


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## Indofred (Jan 31, 2014)

westwall said:


>



History is full of narrow minded cretins - so is the world today.
I see absolutely no downside to trying to reduce oil consumption and lots of positives.

Yes, solar cars aren't that great today but, with research and investment, they will be tomorrow.
The Boeing 747's wingspan is longer than the Wright brother's first flight.


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## jon_berzerk (Jan 31, 2014)

Indofred said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



*solar cars aren't that great today but, with research and investment*

this car is pretty neat 

the solar set up is different capable of recharging the battery 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhfnKlampBI]2014 Ford C-MAX Solar Energi Concept - YouTube[/ame]


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## westwall (Jan 31, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...







Did you bother to even read this thread?  Go back a page and you will see that the car needs a SPECIAL car port to be functional.  Useless, absolutely useless.


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## westwall (Jan 31, 2014)

Indofred said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...









Yes it is.  And right now those narrow minded cretins are the green pushers.  I agree that oil consumption reduction is a laudable goal.  The problem is right now the production methods for the EV's are more polluting and far less efficient than the fossil fueled cars they wish to replace.

That is a huge problem.  And your politicians are making it worse because they continue to reward failure.


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## jon_berzerk (Jan 31, 2014)

westwall said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



*Go back a page and you will see that the car needs a SPECIAL car port to be functional.  Absolutely useless*

LOL

thanks for the info 

i will have to check into that 

--LOL


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## jon_berzerk (Jan 31, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Hey Star..   Im not really trying to destroy any new brilliant ideas.. Truly im not.  Probably a Ford Cmax Hybrid is my next car...  BUT
> 
> Just found a better description of this solar version concept car..  I thought the lenses they were talking about were BUILT IN to the panels (ala Solyndra)   But in this article, theyy expllain the lenses are in a separate PARKING STRUCTURE    !!! !  !
> 
> ...



yeah that is a real buzz kill


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## Indofred (Jan 31, 2014)

I see my point is proven.
Narrow minded fools dismiss technology because it isn't perfect first time.

Get your horses out of the stable, it's time to go shopping.
Remember, no cart because the first wheel wasn't perfectly round.


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## westwall (Jan 31, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I see my point is proven.
> Narrow minded fools dismiss technology because it isn't perfect first time.
> 
> Get your horses out of the stable, it's time to go shopping.
> Remember, no cart because the first wheel wasn't perfectly round.








Normal people don't waste their time with inefficient systems.  This is not just "imperfect", it's downright awful.


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## Indofred (Jan 31, 2014)

westwall said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > I see my point is proven.
> ...



QED.
I don't suppose you have a computer because the early ZX80 was crap.
That was also downright awful, but it still introduced millions to home computers.

In years to come, we'll look at oil technology and wonder why we were so slow at getting rid of it.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 31, 2014)

mamooth said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I guess we will see which the market chooses. Right now, the batteries seem to be winning hands down.
> ...



Youre missing out on several oppotunities here.  The amount of electricity used in water separation goes down drastically if you raise the temperature high enough. Thus theres been solar thermal and hybrid solar thermal/solar PV hydrogen facilities for over a decade.

New water splitting technique efficiently produces hydrogen fuel -- ScienceDaily

Furthermore, this is MUCH BETTER use of wind and solar as OFFGRID fuel producers.
This solves the storage and reliability issues of those electric generators and allows them to produce at that average flaky rates. 

I agree that using nat gas or alcohols for fuel cell feed stock is a bad bait and switch. Not worth going there.  But you missed the part where nat gas in a fuel cell is much cleaner than combusting it in an engine.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 31, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



it would be perfectly fine for Ford to do concept cars like this that are never going to market, if the media wasnt so lazy and gullible.  Not only is solar charging energy this much energy from panels that small -- a gimmick, but it misses the mark of a marketable feature by a wide margin.

I was very disappointed that the press release got this much coverage, without reavealing the math and carport realities..  Dissapointing, but the effort gives Ford all this attention with the green crowd.  Pitch them SOLAR CARS, and sell them Hybrids.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 31, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Star..   Im not really trying to destroy any new brilliant ideas.. Truly im not.  Probably a Ford Cmax Hybrid is my next car...  BUT
> ...



I wonder if those SOLYNDRA solar panels with the built in optical concentrators would have deleted the need for that parking structure.  How ironic would that be?


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## jon_berzerk (Feb 1, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



im not sure they even worked


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## jon_berzerk (Feb 1, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



to me so far 

as an alternative fuel 

nothing compares to the electric hydrogen fuel cell

200 + miles on a fill 

refills take minutes not hours 

the by product is H2O


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## Politico (Feb 1, 2014)

Star said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



And those same drivers will need to have a second car around.


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## Mr. H. (Feb 18, 2015)

Who needs the hybrid hype? 

Who needs a hybrid when there s a diesel Jetta - Yahoo News


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