# Texas turns to Natural Gas after Wind Energy fails.



## elektra (Feb 25, 2015)

In a move that should raise many eyebrows, Texas is building nice new modern Natural Gas plants, selling the cheap plentiful electricity out of state while the public is forced to by purchase extremely expensive wind turbine electricity from politically controlled local electric utility monopolies.







Texas firm joins venture to build large natural gas-fired generating plant in Snyder County PennLive.com



> *Texas firm joins venture to build large natural gas-fired generating plant in Snyder County*
> 
> SHAMOKIN DAM-- A Texas company that is building two natural gas-fired power plants in Bradford and Lycoming counties has entered into a joint venture for a larger one in Snyder County.
> 
> ...


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## Moonglow (Feb 25, 2015)

Well it's about time, the most plentiful generation materials is hot air and natural gas of Texicans...Is the Natural Gas tube inserted into the anus for collection?


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)

Nothing new here.......they are forced to build the gas turbines as coal dies by design from the EPA and the leftist horde.........

During the California black outs I was in Mohave installing a gas turbine for electricity for Californians...........Yet it was built in Arizona only a couple of miles from the border because the utility companies refused to build in California because of their regulations and taxes.

Gas turbines aren't as cheap as coal but they are reliable plants and are really the only viable way to replace the power losses from coal.  There will be a increased cost to the consumer for this situation.  The people will pay for these plants caused by the EPA doing back door legislation to KILL COAL.


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## Moonglow (Feb 25, 2015)

Actually gas is soooo cheap, it makes using coal a loss in the long run...


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Actually gas is soooo cheap, it makes using coal a loss in the long run...


The gas is compatible, but replacing the plants if VERY EXPENSIVE.


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## Moonglow (Feb 25, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Actually gas is soooo cheap, it makes using coal a loss in the long run...
> ...


Sure, but gas is cheaper to transport from point of origin..


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## ClosedCaption (Feb 25, 2015)

Why dont republicans links ever say what they say it says?

The link doesnt say ONE thing about green energy, wind energy or anything the OP claims


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


That means pipelines...........and we can't even get Keystone.........

They have to fight tooth and nail to get the gas there.........unless they only build the power plants right next to the drilling sites for gas.


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## elektra (Feb 25, 2015)

ClosedCaption said:


> Why dont republicans links ever say what they say it says?
> 
> The link doesnt say ONE thing about green energy, wind energy or anything the OP claims


Ahhh, again another drone does not like the truth, what is there to say about wind or green energy, should I include an article that shows the billions of dollars spent on wind energy, should I include an article that shows the claims made by wind in Texas.

We see all the threads proclaiming the greatness of Wind Power, yet we are building Natural Gas plants that will provide 10,000x's the power that Wind Power proclaims they provide? Why and how is that.

Texas is turning to Natural Gas. As my OP states. Would Texas need Natural Gas if Wind is a success?


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## ClosedCaption (Feb 25, 2015)

elektra said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > Why dont republicans links ever say what they say it says?
> ...



Your article doesnt say what the OP says it says.  Thats not my problem thats a OP credibility problem


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## elektra (Feb 25, 2015)

ClosedCaption said:


> Your article doesnt say what the OP says it says.  Thats not my problem thats a OP credibility problem


I guess that is what makes this an OP, Opinion Piece. 

Either way, the fact remains, after spending Billions on Wind Energy, Texas is building Natural Gas power plants. 
My OP, is stating a fact. Texas would not need Natural Gas if Wind Energy was capable of providing electricity.


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## ClosedCaption (Feb 25, 2015)

elektra said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > Your article doesnt say what the OP says it says.  Thats not my problem thats a OP credibility problem
> ...



So now you're saying the linked article doesnt mention anything about what you said it did because its your opinion?  We used to call that by a simpler name...a lie.

Here's an article that shows you're a liar: Bonobo - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Dont mind the fact that it doesnt mention you at all.  Its an OPINION PIECE you see


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## ScienceRocks (Feb 25, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Well it's about time, the most plentiful generation materials is hot air and natural gas of Texicans...Is the Natural Gas tube inserted into the anus for collection?



When natural gas is gone in 80 to 100 years. We will still have wind and solar!


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## elektra (Feb 25, 2015)

Matthew said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Well it's about time, the most plentiful generation materials is hot air and natural gas of Texicans...Is the Natural Gas tube inserted into the anus for collection?
> ...


Industrial Solar Panels last 10 years, Wind Turbines 7 years. How will you replace these monstrosities without fossil fuel to build more? 

Further, without Natural Gas, how will you turn on your Wind Turbine, they require a constant source of power. How will you pump water to a Solar Plant without natural gas? 

How will you run a Steel Foundry to build the replacement panels and parts without Fossil Fuels? 

Why do you advocate using more natural gas now to create less power through a secondary source as in Solar and Wind. 
Yes Matthew, you advocate using up all the Fossil fuel in short span building Solar and Wind which at best last 10 years, not the 80-100 years you have just made a claim of.


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## ClosedCaption (Feb 25, 2015)

elektra is that another opinion?  Solar panels last 25 years on average and wind turbines the same. You know according to something called google.

it would help you a lot if you didn't outright lie about things and pretend you want a real discussion


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)

Clean Power Rule Could Cause Electricity Shortage RealClearPolitics

What’s at stake is “grid reliability” -- whether supply exists to meet the current, massive U.S. demand for electricity. For much of the country, the EPA’s mandate is troubling because, right now, roughly 40 percent of electricity in the United States comes from coal-fired generation.

Under new regulations from the EPA, many of these plants would be effectively forced out of operation. And to date, no one is saying how that power will be otherwise produced. Wind, solar, and natural gas have all been suggested, but none is capable of providing reliable and affordable electricity like coal can. While some states are able to rely on alternative sources such as wind and hydropower, that simply isn't an option for much of the country.

The importance of coal in generating electricity was demonstrated very clearly last winter when coal-fired plants worked overtime to heat homes and businesses during a deep freeze. In fact, American Electric Power, a major utility company, reported that 90 percent of its coal plants slated for retirement under pending EPA rules were running at full speed just to meet peak demand.

Despite record-setting production in the Marcellus Shale formation and elsewhere, natural gas simply can’t compensate for a shortage of coal plants. This is due in part to a lack of infrastructure to deliver gas where it’s needed. But more importantly, natural gas has already been prioritized for home use, not power generation.

A recent report from PJM Interconnection, the regional power transmission group for a dozen states (including Pennsylvania) and the District of Columbia, concluded that without coal plants there could be insufficient electricity to meet peak winter demand.

Under the EPA’s “Clean Power Plan,” consumers will undoubtedly pay higher electricity bills. But the more tragic problem is the possibility of widespread power outages during the coldest parts of winter.

These worrisome scenarios have so far been swept aside by the federal government. The shift away from coal is moving ahead with no regard for the consequences. And so, in light of the recent PJM report, the EPA's regulatory plan amounts to very reckless toying with the nation's power grid.

The truth is that there’s simply no way around the use of coal to help ensure affordable and reliable power in the current market. That's why state utility commissions and regulators from 22 states have sent formal comments to the EPA expressing concerns that the Clean Power Plan will jeopardize reliable and affordable electricity. That’s why the U.S. needs a diversified power portfolio that includes coal in order to meet the nation's electricity needs.

Those seeking to eliminate coal under the guise of improving the environment need to adopt a realistic plan. Modern coal-fired generators are cleaner now than they ever have been. And with technology under development today, even cleaner coal plants will soon be attainable. Any move away from coal that can add sufficient alternative sources of power generation will require many years to implement. Thus, it makes no sense for the EPA to rush ahead with a foolhardy plan that will effectively undermine the ability to generate reliable and affordable electricity in America.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)

U.S. forecasts natural gas boom through 2040

EIA's 2014 forecast says low prices will make natural gas increasingly attractive so in some areas, it will replace power once supplied by nuclear or coal plants. In 2040, it expects natural gas will account for 35% of the nation's electricity generation while coal will account for 32%.

The department of energy forecasts 35% by 2040.  It is booming via the death of coal.  aka replacing the coal burners by then, which now supply 40% of the power down from 55% under Obama.

Obama promised the end of Coal burning plants and that is happening.

Please forward your utility bills to Obama and the leftist brigades when they go up up and away.  Surely they'll pay for all these power plants.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)




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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)




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## elektra (Feb 25, 2015)

ClosedCaption said:


> elektra is that another opinion?  Solar panels last 25 years on average and wind turbines the same. You know according to something called google.
> 
> it would help you a lot if you didn't outright lie about things and pretend you want a real discussion


Google?


ClosedCaption said:


> elektra is that another opinion?  Solar panels last 25 years on average and wind turbines the same. You know according to something called google.
> 
> it would help you a lot if you didn't outright lie about things and pretend you want a real discussion


Instead of offering your opinion, which as you state is nothing but a lie, put your money where your mouth is and put that deck of cards that you call Google to use. Otherwise we can just continue to exchange flames.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 25, 2015)

As the chart shows, solar costs 3 times the cost of coal and 5 times the cost of Natural Gas...............per kwh

The Coal infrastructure is in place.  The Natural Gas infrastructure is not in place.  It can be built, but it is being built as the Gov't has targeted coal for destruction. 

It figures the gov't favors the highest cost method of producing power.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 25, 2015)

elektra said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...


A link for your claims that solar panels last only 10 years, and wind turbines only 7. Otherwise stand as a liar, once again.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 25, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> As the chart shows, solar costs 3 times the cost of coal and 5 times the cost of Natural Gas...............per kwh
> 
> The Coal infrastructure is in place.  The Natural Gas infrastructure is not in place.  It can be built, but it is being built as the Gov't has targeted coal for destruction.
> 
> It figures the gov't favors the highest cost method of producing power.


*What figures is that you are too lazy to research what is the current costs of energy.*

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. *Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.*


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## ClosedCaption (Feb 26, 2015)

elektra said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > elektra is that another opinion?  Solar panels last 25 years on average and wind turbines the same. You know according to something called google.
> ...



Let me google that for you


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## elektra (Feb 26, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> A link for your claims that solar panels last only 10 years, and wind turbines only 7. Otherwise stand as a liar, once again.



I made a thread under Solar, to address your concern. Have a good day.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 26, 2015)

No, you created a thread that shows some manufacturors have defective products. Because your Yugo fails, does not mean the Mercedes is going to fail.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 26, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > As the chart shows, solar costs 3 times the cost of coal and 5 times the cost of Natural Gas...............per kwh
> ...


Cost of Solar Panels

Current data about the cost of solar power have some inconsistency for a variety of reasons.

These reasons include a lack of standardized reporting due to the relative infancy of the solar industry, geographical differences in sun exposure, geographical differences in costs of equipment and solar panel installation, and different government policies.installed capacity in Germany, *$4.70 per watt in Japan*, and ranging from *$5-$10.50 per watt across the United States* [1][3]. The figures are for residential (2-5kW) systems, and before any government incentives.

On that basis, a 2Kw capacity solar panel system would cost between $9,400 and $21,000 installed – depending on your location.majorly turbulent year for the solar industry, with early indications showing average solar panel prices dropped by 50%.



*Solar Power Cost Per kWh*


A useful figure to use when looking at solar is cost per kWh, as this can be directly compared to your current power bill. A National Renewable Energy Laboratory report spanning 7 U.S states, gives a levelised cost of solar of between *$0.28 and $0.46 per kWh* for residential solar systems. This excludes the U.S federal tax credit and other subsidies [3].

Solar costs per kWh hour are calculated by dividing the total expected cost of a system (modules, inverters, installation etc) by the expected total energy output. Obviously there isn’t an ongoing per kWh cost as the electricity trickles in.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 26, 2015)

Once solar panels are installed, the price is now free...........so my main question is the calculation methods to determine the time period used to factor the overall cost of a system over the lifespan of the system.

If a company says it is good for 25 years, and uses this data for the cost per Kwh hour the data will be skewed............

Those who push the product will give it high marks............It all depends on how you rate the life of the panels and system.

I priced a 10 kva system, installed for about 35k a little over a year ago...........that didn't include the battery bank...................according to the article the low end is $5 bucks a watt.............or 50k for the system.  that's not a cheap system unless it lasts you a lifetime.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 26, 2015)

EIA - Electricity Data

shows the average price per kwh across the country.

average residential at 12.46 cents


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## Old Rocks (Feb 26, 2015)

Well, if you priced a 10 kw system for 35 K a year ago, you were having someone else install it. That same system, doing the installation yourself would cost about 13.5 K. And that includes wracking.

Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 3,120 Watts 3,120/2,827 Included up to 424 kWh 12 1 SMA Sunny Boy 3000TL-US-22 1890400
$5,353
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 5,200 Watts 5,200/4,712 Included up to 707 kWh 20 1 SMA Sunny Boy 5000TL-US-22 1890405
$8,443
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,500 Watts - Pallet Special
6,500/5,890 Included up to 884 kWh 25 1 SMA Sunny Boy 6000TL-US-22 1890406
$9,685
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,760 Watts 6,760/6,126 Included up to 919 kWh 26 1 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890409
$10,738
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 10,140 Watts
10,140/9,188 Included up to 1,378 kWh 39 1 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1891416
$13,509
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 13,520 Watts
13,520/12,251 Included up to 1,838 kWh 52 2 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890429
$19,488
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 16,900 Watts
16,900/15,314 Included up to 2,297 kWh 65 1 SMA SB7000TL-US-12
1 SMA SB9000TL-US-12 1890434
$23,260
Solar Sky Astronergy Grid-tie Solar System 20,280 watts 20,280/18,377 Included up to 2,757 kWh 78 2 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1890439
$26,911
1. STC is Standard Test conditions or factory ratings. PTC is PV-USA Test Ratings which are closer to real world conditions. Your unique conditions will affect your system output. Read more...
2. What is a kilowatt hour (kWh) and how to find it on your power bill.
3. Please be aware that these prices may change daily. Call for current pricing: 1 (800) 472-1142.

sales@wholesalesolar.com .




Solar Sky Gridtie System Array Size Watts
STC / PTC [1] Racking  Monthly Output based on 5 sun hours per day [2] # of Solar
Panels SMA
Inverter Product
Number Price [3]
Solar Sky SolarWorld Gridtie System 3,360 Watts
3,360/3,014 Included up to 452 kWh 12 1 SMA Sunny Boy 3000TL-US-22 1891400
$6,488
Solar Sky SolarWorld Gridtie System 5,600 Watts
5,600/5,024 Included up to 754 kWh 20 1 SMA Sunny Boy 5000TL-US-22 1891405
$10,290
Solar Sky SolarWorld Gridtie System 7,280 Watts
7,280/6,531 Included up to 980 kWh 26 1 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1891409
$13,290
Solar Sky SolarWorld Gridtie System 10,920 Watts
10,920/9,797 Included up to 1,470 kWh 39 1 SMA Sunny Boy 10000TL-US-12 1891417
$17,030
Solar Sky SolarWorld Gridtie System 14,560 Watts
14,560/13,062 Included up to 1,959 kWh 52 2 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1891419
$24,020
Solar Sky SolarWorld Gridtie System 18,200 Watts
18,200/16,328 Included up to 2,449 kWh 65 2 SMA SB9000TL-US-12 1891424
$28,530
Solar Sky SolarWorld Gridtie System 21,840 Watts
21,840/19,594 Included up to 2,713 kWh 78 2 SMA Sunny Boy 10000TL-US-12 1891429
$33,472
1. STC is Standard Test conditions or factory ratings. PTC is PV-USA Test Ratings which are closer to real world conditions. Your unique conditions will affect your system output. Read more...
2. What is a kilowatt hour (kWh) and how to find it on your power bill.
3. Please be aware that these prices may change daily. Call for current pricing: 1 (800) 472-1142.

Call Wholesale Solar 
to order:
1 (800) 472-1142

This is a grid parallel system and does not have to have batteries. Batteries would be a bad investment at the present time, within five years or less, much better batteries for home systems will be on the market for less than you can get the present ones.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 26, 2015)

Also, as noted in the OP, we are speaking of utility solar, much cheaper when you are buying by the megawattage.


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## Old Rocks (Feb 26, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


>


*Eagle, that is solar thermal, PV solar is down around 7.2 cent now.*

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 26, 2015)

The system prices have gone down................But I wouldn't install the system without the batteries as you need to store  power for use at night.

The battery bank and racks bring the system up to about 22k to 25k......

I've looked into this before, and have decided not to proceed...........I've actually bought the videos and manuals to build my own...........but by the time you buy all the stuff it wasn't worth building my own.....................

Also, to power a house you have to go higher than your usage in Watts as you must have the battery power at night............These systems don't produce power at night.

I still look at it, and if I see the feasible cost versus install I will probably eventually put in a whole house system.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 26, 2015)

Okay, now my memory of whole grid comes back to play..........Looked at the Inverter that comes with the 10k system...............Maximum output current of 37.5 amps...........which is why I stated that your system would have to be larger than a normal KW rated generator or power supply............

A 5 ton a/c unit will draw roughly 30 amps continuous when running and is considered a continuous load.......

Which uses most of the inverters capacity when running............which is why you must go to higher KW's on your panels to produce standard power for a whole house system.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 26, 2015)

I could make a good case for spending serious money on solar under certain conditions.  This is for instances where "the grid" is available; much different for remote locations where having powerlines strung might be impossible or prohibitively expensive.

1.  Age.  Are you young enough that you can recoup your up-front costs in your lifetime.

2.  System durability.  Are you sure the system will not have broken down beyond economical repair before your initial costs are covered.

3.  Personal stability.  No negative there; most people move several times through their middle years.  Bigger house; smaller house; change of jobs; extended family needs.  It is proven impossible to recoup initial investment (even residual) when selling a solar equipped house with one not so equipped.  A little more?  Yes.  Full recovery?  Nope.

4.  Personal ability/skill to maintain the system?  Even if just to get up on the roof and clear the snow off the panels in season and clean them in other seasons.  Not something that has to be done often but it does have to be done.  If lacking the ability, willingness to undertake the hassle of finding somebody to do it and pay them appropriately.

Having worked with solar and wind systems since 1996 I can say that solar systems (and I'm just talking electrical, no hot water, etc.) ARE practical under the right circumstances.  I can also say that wind machines are fun but more demanding.  Again, experience, most solar systems I've seen give very good long term service.  ALL wind systems have suffered badly from mechanical failure.

Others may have different experience and I hope we'll hear from them.  But from experience; not rah-rah-rah-buy-mine websites.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 26, 2015)

HenryBHough said:


> I could make a good case for spending serious money on solar under certain conditions.  This is for instances where "the grid" is available; much different for remote locations where having powerlines strung might be impossible or prohibitively expensive.
> 
> 1.  Age.  Are you young enough that you can recoup your up-front costs in your lifetime.
> 
> ...


I'm an electrician, installing or maintaining, and or trouble shooting the system is no problem.  I have installed small panel mount systems at work all with small battery banks.  As it was cheaper to put in the solar versus the long runs of conduit and cable to power the area up.

On a normal house, say 2400 square foot, with a 4 ton unit and standard appliances..............what size system would be needed to be independent of the grid.............and what size battery rack would you need for when the sun is down................

Under my last post I looked a the 10k grid with 40 panels..............which is a lot of surface area...........I again noticed the maximum output of the inverter supplied is 37.7 amps..............I used a 5 ton a/c unit for amperage draw example........which would use 75% of the power when running................foot note a Horse power per ton of a/c could be used to get the ball park amps for a/c unit per ton.............
746 watts per horse............

It looks to me that you would nearly have to double the wattage of the solar grid to get amperages capable of sustaining the home load.

Any input on that...........


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 26, 2015)

Equipment Wattage
Baseboard Heater 1,600
Clothes Dryer 4,900
Dishwasher 1,200
Frost-Free Deep Freeze 500
Frost-Free Refrigerator 615
Furnace 500
Garbage Disposal 450 to 950
Oven 4,000 to 8,000
Range 4,000 to 5,000
Room Heater 1,350
Standard Deep Freeze 400
Standard Refrigerator 325
Washing Machine 500
Water Heater 2,000 to 5,000

Home Appliance Amp Reference Chart Electric Safety Georgia Power

http://www.kingslocal.net/Departments/Business/Documents/Appliance_energy_consumption.pdf

site shows general amperage draws


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## Old Rocks (Feb 27, 2015)

Good figures, Eagle. But here in Oregon, the climate is such that, for most areas, you don't need the airconditioner on full blast for months at a time. In fact, for the are most heavily populated area, about two months out of the year, and partial capacity for most of those months. If you are grid parallel, a battery backup is not needed. However, given the present progress being made in batteries, in five years I expect that a backup will be on par with the cost of an ICE generating system. That would make the backup feasable even in a grid parallel situation. 

Since you are an electrician, you would have zero problems doing your own installation. In five years, the panels will be far less costly than they are today, and probably nearly double the efficiency. Kind of like upgrading a computer. Balance of what you need now, versus what you are going to need later, knowing the price for more power will be much less later.


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## elektra (Feb 28, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Also, as noted in the OP, we are speaking of utility solar, much cheaper when you are buying by the megawattage.


Trillions of Dollars is much cheaper?


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## elektra (Feb 28, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Good figures, Eagle. But here in Oregon, the climate is such that, for most areas, you don't need the airconditioner on full blast for months at a time. In fact, for the are most heavily populated area, about two months out of the year, and partial capacity for most of those months. If you are grid parallel, a battery backup is not needed. However, given the present progress being made in batteries, in five years I expect that a backup will be on par with the cost of an ICE generating system. That would make the backup feasable even in a grid parallel situation.
> 
> Since you are an electrician, you would have zero problems doing your own installation. In five years, the panels will be far less costly than they are today, and probably nearly double the efficiency. Kind of like upgrading a computer. Balance of what you need now, versus what you are going to need later, knowing the price for more power will be much less later.



So, all installed Solar is obsolete, which needs to be replaced in 5 years or less, but cost $70K! The computer is replaced for $500.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 1, 2015)

My, what a lying little fuck you are, Elektra.

Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 3,120 Watts 3,120/2,827 Included up to 424 kWh 12 1 SMA Sunny Boy 3000TL-US-22 1890400
$5,353
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 5,200 Watts 5,200/4,712 Included up to 707 kWh 20 1 SMA Sunny Boy 5000TL-US-22 1890405
$8,443
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,500 Watts - Pallet Special
6,500/5,890 Included up to 884 kWh 25 1 SMA Sunny Boy 6000TL-US-22 1890406
$9,685
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,760 Watts 6,760/6,126 Included up to 919 kWh 26 1 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890409
$10,738
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 10,140 Watts
10,140/9,188 Included up to 1,378 kWh 39 1 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1891416
$13,509
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 13,520 Watts
13,520/12,251 Included up to 1,838 kWh 52 2 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890429
$19,488
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 16,900 Watts
16,900/15,314 Included up to 2,297 kWh 65 1 SMA SB7000TL-US-12
1 SMA SB9000TL-US-12 1890434
$23,260
Solar Sky Astronergy Grid-tie Solar System 20,280 watts 20,280/18,377 Included up to 2,757 kWh 78 2 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1890439
$26,911
1. STC is Standard Test conditions or factory ratings. PTC is PV-USA Test Ratings which are closer to real world conditions. Your unique conditions will affect your system output.Read more...
2. What is a kilowatt hour (kWh) and how to find it on your power bill.
3. Please be aware that these prices may change daily. Call for current pricing: 1 (800) 472-1142.

sales@wholesalesolar.com .


----------



## eagle1462010 (Mar 1, 2015)

http://www.alabamapower.com/residential/pricing-rates/pdf/sp-pae.pdf

6. All metering equipment necessary to meter two-way electric energy flow in excess of metering necessary for a similar consumer who does not operate electric generating equipment in parallel with the Company's electric system shall be provided, installed, and maintained by the Company at the expense of the Customer. This expense is included in the base charge portion of the rate.

13. (a). For Customers with an electric generating facility that has a nameplate capacity of 25 kW or less (regardless of whether such Customer is a residential, commercial, or industrial Customer), prior to the start of any interconnection work, the Company may recommend that the Customer obtain liability insurance protecting the Customer from liability resulting from any injuries or damages caused by the Customer’s installation or operation of such electric generating facilities and equipment or by the Customer’s failure to maintain such electric generating facilities and equipment in satisfactory and safe operating condition.

There are rules for installing to the grid.........permits..........new metering..........and insurance via the utility company.

As usual, when I get into something I'm researching I dig............couple of points for comment on......

1.  Standard smart meters are NOT 2 WAY.........Old meters run backwards the new smart meters do not...........they only measure POWER............and I've been reading that some of these meters actually have been charging customers for sending power back to the grid....................Not only that many states are using the smart meters to RAISE RATES FOR PEAK OPERATING TIMES OF DAY............

Especially in Western States........In these states you can reduce your overall bill by not running as much electricity during  peak hours..............

2.  You can and probably will be charged for the new meter that is installed to measure your kwh's going back to the grid.

3.  A smart meter detects any changes and they will know if you tie into the grid with power immediately.

4.  They can shut down your power via computer, and will do so if you don't go through the proper channels.

5.  Average costs associated to the permitting and new meters are a little over $2,000 to the cost of the system grid tie...............


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 1, 2015)

More notes....................

My bill is 8.4 cents per kwh for first 1000 kwh's
My bill is 8.6 cents per kwh for over 1000 kwh's of usage.

The ONLY THING that really matters in SOLAR POWER OUTPUT is *t*he KWH's it can produce when calculating Load for your home.....................

And as I stated the capacity for said usage for a 10k system is inadequate for all of your power needs for the cost.

A 24k Solar system will produce under IDEAL conditions around 2200 kwh's per month.  It requires 60 Solar Panels that are roughly 65 inches by 40 inches to produce this approx 2200 kwh's based on 5 sun hours a day.

My average usage per month are 3,000 kwh's per month on average for the year.

That system cost from site provided is approximately $35,000 without installation..........and would have further wire and conduit cost to tie in the system to the grid.............With local permits and having to pay for the metering it goes up by roughly $3500 making the install cost approximately $38,500 to install and tie.

Any system installed over 25,000 Watts in Alabama require you to have a 1 MILLION DOLLAR INSURANCE POLICY on your system.

Now, this would produce roughly 2/3rd's of the average power used at my home..............Meaning I'll still have a 1/3rd power bill even after installing a nearly $40,000 system.

Now, the surface area......................60 panels......................will take roughly 60 foot by 24 foot of space to handle the panels.  aka roughly 1440 square foot area.

As I stated I priced some systems a year or so to try and figure out the cost of a system, and after I get the cob webs out of my head I start to figure out the real cost versus value of the system...............

It has a VERY HIGH INITIAL COST to get the kind of power you need to stop paying the utility companies....................It has RISK and LIABILITY from these utility companies if you TIE TO GRID.............aka you can get sued by these guys if they claim you damaged the system with your power...........................

So if you can off grid some of your applications you are better off in the long run.................

Solar Power has risks and rewards..................BUT PLEASE STOP SAYING HOW CHEAP IT IS.................

I've considered putting  some in, and I am thinking about it now.................as I got some high electric bills this winter and I'm kinda pissed about it.....................
But I have to look at the COST versus VALUE..............the good and the bad............

I welcome input or challenges to my data...................I'm very experienced in Electrical and calcs.............I do it for a living........................But the Solar is a new twist..................

So tell me how to do this cheaper, and tell me about the kwh's from your own experiences...............No bs on it.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 1, 2015)

fyi............http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5695.pdf

This is the federal form needed to get the tax credit if you were to decide to put in a solar panel system grid.................

Up until 2016 you get 30% tax credits for the full install of the system.  aka at the end of the year when you file taxes you use this form to get the credits and payments for installing the system.

At $38,500 for a 60 panel 24k system in my example............

$11,550 Tax Credit at the end of the year, which brings the cost down to $26,950.

Alabama gives  a $1,000 tax credit..........bringing the cost down to $25,950 for the install if you do it yourself.....................

How do you get the install approved is the next question................Does it have to be installed by a company for the credit?


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## longknife (Mar 1, 2015)

Natural gas is the solution to energy in the USA.

I will repeat - for 5 years, I drove a taxi here in Vegas powered by natural gas. It performed as well as a gasoline powered  vehicle and the engine lasted twice as long - an average 450,000 miles before replacement - and the old was rebuilt.

Far less emissions too. 

I've also noticed far more city buses converted to natural gas and it's a joy driving behind them without the black, noxious cloud of fumes coming from diesel engines.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 1, 2015)

longknife said:


> Natural gas is the solution to energy in the USA.
> 
> I will repeat - for 5 years, I drove a taxi here in Vegas powered by natural gas. It performed as well as a gasoline powered  vehicle and the engine lasted twice as long - an average 450,000 miles before replacement - and the old was rebuilt.
> 
> ...


We are the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas here in the United States.  So Natural Gas is the only viable alternative to Coal and or Gasoline from Oil.  With Fracking we will produce as much oil as Saudi Arabia in as little as 5 years.

In regards to Coal burning plants the power companies have retrofitted all the EPA required  devises at a great expense only to be basically wiped out by the New EPA regulations.  These regulations have dropped production from 55% to 45% in all electricity in the nation in a few years.  We have the best emitting coal burners in the world already, and a 200 year supply of the coal.  Which is a waste of a energy supply.

The cost of building the new plants will FORCE utility bills up by at least 50% to customers by replacing them.  This will effect the poor more than anyone else, especially the elderly living on a fixed income.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 1, 2015)

My power bill has gone up steadily as the utility builds new plants and passes the buck on to the people.  One being the Kemper Plant in Mississippi, which is the first of it's kind.  It is a gasification plant for COAL.  The cost overruns for this plant already exceed 3 BILLION dollars as they try to make the experimental process work.

Even though it is with Mississippi Power, they are part of Gulf Power and they are passing the new costs on across the region.

Since my bills have gone up, I've considered alternatives which is why I'm almost ready to slap solar panels up, but the UP FRONT COST is VERY HIGH irregardless of what the other poster is saying.  If I start with the lower cost version being discussed it will only power 1/3rd of my bill.  That cost will actually make my over all power bill go up rather than down for at least 10 years when you calculate the costs versus benefits over time.

Either way the green machine is determined to KILL COAL..............so we can expect higher and higher rates............basically FORCING US ON TO THEIR BAND WAGON due to higher costs.

Which is part of their plan anyway.  Make Solar more affordable by driving up the costs of the other power sources.


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## elektra (Mar 2, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> My, what a lying little fuck you are, Elektra.
> 
> Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 3,120 Watts 3,120/2,827 Included up to 424 kWh 12 1 SMA Sunny Boy 3000TL-US-22 1890400
> $5,353
> ...


Show us the picks from your system, on your home Old Crock, with a copy of the Bill, otherwise your Google search means nothing.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 6, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> More notes....................
> 
> My bill is 8.4 cents per kwh for first 1000 kwh's
> My bill is 8.6 cents per kwh for over 1000 kwh's of usage.
> ...



A better investment would be to spend some money reducing the energy consumption of your house.  Buy Led bulbs for all the fixtures in your house.  Install triple pain windows and add additional insulation.  Make sure your house is weather tight.  Solar panels are good for heating hot water, but not for much else.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 7, 2015)

bripat9643 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > More notes....................
> ...


I'm actually ordering some LED's and CFL's right now to see how I like them...........Did a cost comparison on the savings for their use and came up with like $75 to $100 a year in savings for the year if they work as designed..........aka spending more than the savings up front already.

I'm also going to seal up any air leaks soon and add insulation to see if it lowers the bill.  Even considering a Hot Water Blanket to stop those losses as well...........

I'm still looking to grid tie............even though the bang for the buck is low.

Watching these video's.........on calculations and configuration of grid systems.  He's pretty good.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 7, 2015)

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/syste...icroinverter-grid-tie-solar-panel-system.html

After watching the videos, I became interested in the mircroinverters...........aka one inverter per panel...........As otherwise you must series the wiring for 13 panels in the other package............If you get a single cell to go bad in any of the 13 panels the whole series circuit opens and you lose 13 panels while you repair them.  Given that they have about 60 cells each, you have 780 cells in series...........The microinverters prevent you from losing all of that power when 1 of 780 cells goes out.

This package is expensive..........It doesn't include the railing system, or flashing...........doesn't include the extra charges via the power company, and the wire and conduit and disconnects to the grid............So it would take a couple of decades to recoup the expense of it on the cost now.

Noting that the EPA is causing our bills to rise......15% last year......and another 7% possible due to the dang Kemper Power Plant that they can't get to work..............gasification of coal.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 7, 2015)

Video on micro inverters............versus string inverters............

You can add to the grid at any time and any numbers.........So you can just start with a small number of panels and then add to it.............1 at a time............If you are stringing series loads you have to add possibly 10 or more at a time.............to get the voltage input needed for the converter.............In an earlier post I noted minimum inputs at 300 volts DC...........

This video shows how you can start small and slowly work the total system package up..


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 8, 2015)

Ok.......seems interest in this thread is dying, but I will continue to post information I am finding............

Here's the Alabama costs per Kilowatt produced as an EXTRA FEE for tying to the grid.

http://www.alabamapower.com/business/pricing-rates/pdf/rgb.pdf

1. *The Capacity Reservation Charge of $5.00/kW (secondary service) or $4.46/kW (primary service) shall be added to the applicable rate schedule*. The Capacity Reservation Charge shall be applied to the nameplate capacity of the Customer’s installed on-site, non-emergency electric generating capacity. The Customer may request the Company to calculate its actual capacity requirement to which the Capacity Reservation Charge shall be applied if the Customer believes the nameplate capacity of its installed on-site, non-emergency electric generating capacity exceeds its actual capacity needs. The monthly bill minimum shall be adjusted to include the Capacity Reservation Charge plus the Minimum Bill provisions of the applicable rate schedule. All other terms and conditions of the applicable rates shall continue to apply.

2. In lieu of the Capacity Reservation Charge in 1. above, qualifying customers may take service under Rate RTA with the following modification.

a. During the months of June through September, *the energy charge shall be 70¢/kWh during the weekday hours of 3:00 pm – 5:00 pm*, excluding holidays as outlined in Rate RTA. All other terms and conditions of Rate RTA shall continue to apply.

Alabama Power.........and my brother works for these guys.

So, I put in a 10KW system.......that doesn't provide enough power for my home.......to pay $50 a month just for tying to the grid..................

Let there be light How solar could radically disrupt electric utilities business models opinion AL.com

mong those regulations is "net metering," which is required in 43 states, but not Alabama. Net metering allows your power meter to run backwards when you generate more electricity than you use, and at the end of the month, you pay the power company for the difference, or if you have generated more, they pay you.

Again, we don't have that here in Alabama. Instead, solar users sell their excess power to utilities at wholesale prices but buy it back with a retail mark-up.

However, there has been one major regulatory change in anticipation of a solar surge. Last year, the Alabama Public Service Commission approved a fee for new solar hookups at a rate of $5 per kilowatt per month. What that means for the typical home solar user is a fee of $15 or $20 per month.

Alabama power officials have told me that they aren't afraid of solar, and when the day comes that their customers demand it, the company will be there to sell it to them. When they asked for the regulatory change, known as a capacity reservation charge, they followed the legal process for soliciting that adjustment.

A fee like that might be reasonable, but when it passed in 2013 there was no public input and no discussion, and that's the thing that Alabamians should be unnerved about.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 8, 2015)

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/48969.pdf

Information on solar power systems, rebates, and listings for individual States etc............

In Alabama, there is no legislative standard for NET METERING...........Which means you must APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE UTILITY.............and get permission to tie from that same utility............

Then you must pay for a Net Meter and installation..............

Then you must pay a monthly charge for rated capacity..........at $5 per KW produced......

Then you send back to the grid at a 4 cent pay back, to be charged at regular rates at night.

My purpose is to save money on my bill...................these rules in Alabama have got me.....................................



the savings would be cut in half as they bill me more................

Nice Fing set up isn't it...............Time to speak to my Senator.........again.............


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 8, 2015)

For Alabama Power.............


Bitches.........I'll put a damned system and tell you to get your shit off my property and put in a 10 KW generator for back up...............

Bitches.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 9, 2015)

Well Eagle, in those states that cave to the utilities and try to prevent grid parallel, I think that as the prices of home batteries come down, see Tesla, you will see many people doing just that. Unfortunetly, the utility execs have their heads up their asses, and instead of welcoming a new source of generation, and trying to make it work for all concerned, they are doing their best to prevent it. And will destroy their business as a result.


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## longknife (Mar 9, 2015)

Okay, here's a question for all - can anything be done about the monopolies public utilities currently have? Is there a way to allow other companies to step in and offer the same services?

I truly wonder if it's possible. An example is trash collecting. Here in the Vegas Valley, there is only one company that picks up trash from everywhere! But, the service that company provides varies from which government it serves.

Explanation:

I lived in the city/county are and the trucks that came by were old and manned by a driver and assistant to manually collect from a variety of trash containers.

I now live in North Las Vegas where the same company has new vehicles and each house as two standard trash containers - one specifically for recyclables. It has a single driver and all is done by machine.

Why just one company? Why not two? Or more?

Just curious.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 9, 2015)

longknife said:


> Okay, here's a question for all - can anything be done about the monopolies public utilities currently have? Is there a way to allow other companies to step in and offer the same services?
> 
> I truly wonder if it's possible. An example is trash collecting. Here in the Vegas Valley, there is only one company that picks up trash from everywhere! But, the service that company provides varies from which government it serves.
> 
> ...


The Utility companies are monopolized but since they have a monopoly they are supposed to be Regulated by the Federal, State and Local Gov'ts........which is why they must apply for rate increases...........and to incorporate the laws I've just described..............These boards pretty much give the utility companies what they want................and let them get away with it.......................

Only by pushing it through your own Government trying to force changes through the legislature to end these problems can you put an end to it..................but when the Gov't is in bed with them......you have an even greater challenge..............

I live in a rural area........In the country............I have a choice of 3 different garbage services...........a pay for service.............In the city areas...............they have a monopoly as they are city workers................and the only way is to again approach the city council...........and demand improvements........most of these have open public meetings where you can ask them questions and bring it up while they are being filmed by local news and put them on the spot..............

Don't know if that helped you out, but it's what we have.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 9, 2015)

Battery Desulfators - Fact or Fiction - Import Tuner Magazine

*Battery Desulfators - Fact or Fiction*

*The Claim: Battery Desulfators Can Bring Dead Batteries To Life.

When it comes to our cars’ electrical systems, most of us know just what we need to get by. This is especially true of battery maintenance: Keep your terminals clean, jumpstart it if you park with your lights on, let the alternator take care of the rest, and you’ll be good to go for a long while. Until the battery eventually refuses to hold a charge and you have to fork over hard-earned loot for a replacement, right? Not necessarily, say the makers of battery desulfators.














*


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 9, 2015)

Perhaps it's time to buy one of those..............and buy dead batteries..................BATTERY BANK MAYBE,,,,,,,,,,'

Question.............Forklift batteries.............has anyone tried them yet........even though most have a 5 hour rating only instead of 20 hour.........

I'm seeing them much cheaper than the high dollar ones.................with massive ampere hour capacities...........for a fraction of the cost of building a new bank.......

Anybody tried these............Looking at old chargers for them as well............some of these old rack chargers look like some of the ones I repaired in the Navy............floating ideas...............I used to run the Safety shop on the USS Wasp back in the day.............which included running the Battery Shop and forklift batteries for our forklifts............

Need a forklift to move them though our chainfall.  As they weigh a few thousand pounds.......LOL

Anyway............anyone tried that yet...............


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## Old Rocks (Mar 9, 2015)

The Home Power magazine has many good articles concerning batteries. Here is another one from the net;

Our Simple DIY Home Solar Power System Eartheasy Blog

I have heard of people getting used forklift batteries from the Postal Service, and bringing them back to 80% level. According to the article, all they had to do was sign an agreement they they would dispose of them in an approved, recycle, fashion.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 10, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> The Home Power magazine has many good articles concerning batteries. Here is another one from the net;
> 
> Our Simple DIY Home Solar Power System Eartheasy Blog
> 
> I have heard of people getting used forklift batteries from the Postal Service, and bringing them back to 80% level. According to the article, all they had to do was sign an agreement they they would dispose of them in an approved, recycle, fashion.


Forklift batteries can be sent out for repair.  Installing new plates for some of the bigger ones I dealt with.  I didn't see the ones I worked on yet, but they are very high capacity banks.  The cost would be high for the overhaul, but they would smoke the total ampere hours on the listed Solar batteries............

Was seeing some cheap prices on 900 ampere hour battery sets online.  I'm also looking at Military disposal sites,


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## Old Rocks (Mar 11, 2015)

Military disposal sites, now I didn't think of that. Might be a very good source.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 14, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Military disposal sites, now I didn't think of that. Might be a very good source.


Government Surplus Auctions at Government Liquidation

Looking at the military surplus generators right now.  Just browsing.............30 kw military grade generators and the bids are only $650.....................I could power 3 houses for that, but Diesel isn't so cheap...............but for a back up power system and a road trip with a heavy trailer you can have a large generator for a fraction of the cost.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 14, 2015)

GSA Auctions General Services Administration Government Site for Auctions

You can go to these auctions and bid direct on late model vehicles with the inspections the week before..........of course you'll be bidding against car dealers who try to buy the lot and drive the dang prices up.


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## 1stRambo (Mar 14, 2015)

Yo, its cheaper, and this Administration is crying that Texas stood up to them! The Anti-Christ is dirt mad!!!

"GTP"


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 14, 2015)

1stRambo said:


> Yo, its cheaper, and this Administration is crying that Texas stood up to them! The Anti-Christ is dirt mad!!!
> 
> "GTP"
> View attachment 37833


The cost of a solar grid is Very Expensive.............I've shown that already in this thread.............Natural Gas is cheaper but the infrastructure, aka Gas Turbines aren't cheap...............The cost of conversion will ramp up utility bills........even more as they keep going up.  which is why I'm simply looking into this stuff again at all............The bang for the buck is not there.

YO.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 14, 2015)

Ametek Model SS12300-13-12-60 30KVA Inverter System sn S931110111 DC Input 120 VDC 287.4 Amps Bypass AC Input 120 V - Government Liquidation

This is an Industrial Grade Inverter.  2 cabinets and very heavy............Standard UPS power back up system with a very large bank...............Standard banks for these are 48vdc..............charged at 52vdc................We have installed these systems and battery chargers at work many times.............I've mounted them and hooked them up.

Again, they are HEAVY............need a hoist for this type of inverter.............but it will beat any thing that the Solar guys are pushing right now............Only downfall is the bank has to be VERY LARGE.............as does the system charging it.................but the output power capabilities of these cabinets are the best out there.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 14, 2015)

Thank you, Eagle.This is why I continue to come to these boards. Every once in a while, somebody posts real information that could be useful to me.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 14, 2015)

Old Rocks said:


> Thank you, Eagle.This is why I continue to come to these boards. Every once in a while, somebody posts real information that could be useful to me.


Your Welcome.............Just posting data as I continue my research to see how I can build a cheap battery bank and inverter system..................

Looking at Locomotive battery banks now.............checked amperhour draws versus the one's listed at the Solar company's stuff............So far it seems the Solar companies amperage draws are winning out in the end.........even though I could buy the locomotive batteries cheaper...........

Still looking and browsing.............found the inverters and though it would be worth posting..........as I did on the Generator sets...........I'm getting very interested in one of those...............They will easily power a house..............

I'm also looking for submarine batteries.........haven't found yet...........so far the best prices I've found is the forklift batteries.............

On the disposal site for Alabama their are 3 pallet jacks for sale now...........2 of them have 947 ampere hour battery banks that are operational.........


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 14, 2015)

fyi.........If you buy one of these inverter sets............they have scr's in them..........gated to pulse for a/c output...........which is how many give you a/c from d/c................

How to test one of those scr's with a flashlight............the video doesn't show the hook up..inside the battery.........2 wires attack to the postive of the flashlight battery.......and one to the negative.........
the yellow wire is the negative...........


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 14, 2015)

Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University

Found this site.............a lot of articles on batteries.........found it looking for desulfating chargers........
Battery Tech Solutions Battery Desulfator News Reviews


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## percysunshine (Mar 14, 2015)

.
The price of electricity...

West South Central (Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas);

Lowest in the nation at 8.66 cents per kwh.

EIA - Electricity Data

 New England is 15.45 cents per kwh.

.


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## eagle1462010 (Mar 22, 2015)

bump.

FYI you can buy the battery acid at local auto parts stores..........

Didn't know that...........passing it on.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 3, 2015)

More information as I see useful sites.

Pssst Wanna Buy A Free Solar Powered Carport CleanTechnica

This site seems more reasonable than most and is showing ways to finance systems.  Rebates and Tech Updates.

Renewable Energy Lending Admirals Bank

This bank finances 0 down up to $40,000 for Renewable Energy Loans...........at a 4.95% rate up to 20 years.  Note:  There is no limit to the Tax Credit from the Federal Gov't.  So if you got $40,000 you would get $12,000 back in Tax Credits on the next Tax Return.

Will The Tesla Gigafactory Turn On Early CleanTechnica

Tesla's Giga Battery Factory is ahead of schedule..........teaming up with Panasonic.

What Does A SolarCity Tesla Storage System Cost 

Even so, he did get some figures that would apply to his case if he was an existing SolarCity customer (he has solar but got it elsewhere, btw). He could (hypothetically) get a 10-kWh Tesla battery (to power the refrigerator, lights, etc. in a power outage) under a 10-year lease for a $1500 upfront cost + $15/month. That amounts to $3300 over 10 years. Not super cheap, but is actually less than I would have guessed off the top of my head. I’m curious to see how much the price for this comes down by the time the Tesla & Panasonic Gigafactoryis pumping out batteries. I imagine it will come down a lot, as SolarCity has said that it plans to sell battery storage with every solar system within 5-10 years.

You will soon if not now be able to LEASE the battery bank...........as the article states $1500 up front and $15 a month............for renting it...............for a 10 kwh battery bank...............Which wouldn't be a bad deal as batteries tend to have to be replaced every 5 years or so now.............

You wouldn't get the Federal Tax Credit...........I believe.............since it's a Lease..........If you Lease a system the tax credits go to the company leasing it to you.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 3, 2015)

Solar System Battery Backup Emergency Solar Power Inverter

Stackable Racking systems to add on.............kinda like this stuff..........allows easier installation going off grid with power and power back up systems.


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## ScienceRocks (Apr 3, 2015)

Turing to something for your energy needs that will run out within a few hundred years at the most is dumb.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 3, 2015)

Matthew said:


> Turing to something for your energy needs that will run out within a few hundred years at the most is dumb.


How so..................as in 200 years you don't think we'll find something else...............some new power source..............We have Gas.............we have Coal............both with 200 years of Service.............That's 400 years.................

I'm seeing a going trend on the attack of these industries.............I see the prices going up by design from the Green Machine...............

I've been getting a few high Power Bills...............so I'm considering producing some of my own Green Power even though I don't buy into the Rhetoric..............My biggest money saving event next winter will about 5 cords of wood..........which will minimize my 57,000 btu electric heater.................which draws  16.7 kwh EVERY HOUR.................

I'm just posting some of my research and findings..............feel free to do the same.


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## westwall (Apr 3, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Once solar panels are installed, the price is now free...........so my main question is the calculation methods to determine the time period used to factor the overall cost of a system over the lifespan of the system.
> 
> If a company says it is good for 25 years, and uses this data for the cost per Kwh hour the data will be skewed............
> 
> ...







I've had a solar array for 30 years now.  When I first put it together I was getting about 14% efficiency.  Now I'm down to about 8%.  I keep them as clean as possible but they were never able to power the whole house.  I do have a water wheel as well and that has been the best investment I ever made for electricity.  We're screwed when the water freezes up but other than that it is solid 24/7 power.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 3, 2015)

westwall said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Once solar panels are installed, the price is now free...........so my main question is the calculation methods to determine the time period used to factor the overall cost of a system over the lifespan of the system.
> ...


I've been watching my power consumption trying to figure the way to use less power...........My mega bills were in the winter............one of the key problems being the large heater...........and the insulation had loosened on the wall causing it to suck partially into the side of the blower motor.............Causing it to be a major flow problem.............reglued it...................but it's still a 57k btu heater which uses a lot of power................

I'm considering doing this.........and would probably do it sooner until I found out that Alabama power has figured a way to steal the electricity you produce...........a $5 per K a month...............so I'm looking for off grid options.................to keep from paying for power I'm producing..................but the batteries are VERY EXPENSIVE...............

I'm thinking of possibly going for it later this year..............but I have to sell my wife and that ain't no easy sell.....................LOL..........End of the year to get the Tax Credits in only a few months............Your getting 30% back on the taxes................so I continue to do the research............

Thanks for the input..........any suggestions and help would be appreciated.......primarily with who has the best panels and inverters...............


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## westwall (Apr 3, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...








30 years ago I was THE guy to go to for that info!  I am far, far from current now though!


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 3, 2015)

westwall said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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> 
> > westwall said:
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I'm keeping this thread going to post some of my findings..................Too many sites out there claiming to be the BEST SOLAR SYSTEM there is.......................LOL.......................

I'm pretty much sold on the Mono Crystaline design.........as they are the most reliable it seems..............tried and tested.................but I'm unsure of the impact resistance of the outer glass...............That does make a difference in the ability to survive a storm which we have down here...................

So far the best contenders are Solar City.............Canadian Solar............and Grape Solar.............as they are getting some good reviews.................but it's still in the air on which ones are the ones that will last................and are better built...............just improper QC on the solder joints could make the panels fail early............

So I'll keep looking until I make the leap.............and possibly have to live in the dog house for a while.........LOL


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