# Ford's Electric Car



## GHook93 (Jan 7, 2011)

Ford Unveils Its First Electric Car - FoxNews.com

This is the future. All the auto makers are featuring electric cars. The end of oil is near!


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## Mad Scientist (Jan 7, 2011)

Great! Now lets talk about the electricity needed to charge all these vehicles.


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## Mr. H. (Jan 8, 2011)

What difference does it make if emmissions are coming from a tailpipe or a smokestack?

None.


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## RGR (Jan 8, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> Ford Unveils Its First Electric Car - FoxNews.com
> 
> This is the future. All the auto makers are featuring electric cars. The end of oil is near!



Yup. A few years back, peak oilers were all atwitter over how peak oil itself would cause solutions to peak oil, like EVs, from coming to market. We got 2 new ones last month, we'll get more in 2011 and 2012, and the more we make, the less oil we will use in powering them.


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## RGR (Jan 8, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> Great! Now lets talk about the electricity needed to charge all these vehicles.



Worried that the sun is going to get turned off sometime soon? What are rooftops in America work in terms of electrical energy, 500 Gw? 700 Gw? Certainly isn't a baseload solution, but at the end of the day finding the energy isn't a problem.


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## RGR (Jan 8, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> What difference does it make if emmissions are coming from a tailpipe or a smokestack?
> 
> None.



True. But there aren't alot of emissions from these things.


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## Mr. H. (Jan 8, 2011)

70% of the electricity used to charge these cars will come from coal and natural gas. 
I'm not discounting the contribution of wind and solar, nor their potential. But neither will be able to keep up with any substantial use of EV's.


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## RGR (Jan 8, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> 70% of the electricity used to charge these cars will come from coal and natural gas.



Maybe today. Certainly there is no expectation that this percentage will ever remain stable in an environment concentrating on more green sources of electrical generation.



			
				Mr.H said:
			
		

> I'm not discounting the contribution of wind and solar, nor their potential. But neither will be able to keep up with any substantial use of EV's.



Sure they can. EVs aren't going to replace 225 million ICE powered autos in America tomorrow, any more than those 225 million autos popped up all at once since the Model T was first built.

We build a few EVs, we put up some windmills. We build more EVs, we build a few nukes. We build more EVs, we mandate PVs on the roof for all new residential and commerical construction. We build a few more EVs, and we mandate PVs on all pre-existing residentail and commercial construction when new permits are issued.

Give it a quarter century or so and presto, big chunks of the American public rides around in EVs. Every spike in gasoline costs reinforces the idea that depending on our own ability to generate electricity to run our transport fleet is pretty cool...versus depending on the vulgarities of the world market and crude oil price volatility.


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## Revere (Jan 8, 2011)

There won't be any new nukes built, thanks to the same enviro cacklers who want to shove you into an electric car.


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## uscitizen (Jan 8, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> What difference does it make if emmissions are coming from a tailpipe or a smokestack?
> 
> None.



More efficient?  easier to control polloution?
Less control of America from the ME?
btw only 50% or so of our electricity involves a smokestack.


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## Revere (Jan 8, 2011)

All of the battery technology manufacturing is Chinese.  So, just substitute dependence on the middle east with dependence on the Chinese.


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## uscitizen (Jan 8, 2011)

Revere said:


> All of the battery technology manufacturing is Chinese.  So, just substitute dependence on the middle east with dependence on the Chinese.



all of it?  I just bought a new battery for my van at Wally world.  Made in the USA by Johnson Controls.

My gell cells in my power chair are also US made as well as the electric motors.


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## Revere (Jan 8, 2011)

The battery to power the starter in your gas powered vehicle, not the batteries to run EVs.

You'll be asked to do with less and pay more for it.


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## loosecannon (Jan 8, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> What difference does it make if emmissions are coming from a tailpipe or a smokestack?
> 
> None.



a lot of difference.


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## Big Fitz (Jan 8, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> Ford Unveils Its First Electric Car - FoxNews.com
> 
> This is the future. All the auto makers are featuring electric cars. The end of oil is near!


I won't buy one.


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## GHook93 (Jan 9, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> What difference does it make if emmissions are coming from a tailpipe or a smokestack?
> 
> None.



I don't care about emission! I care more about getting off foreign oil and reducing the black crack that terrorist states are holding the west hostage with!


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## Mr. H. (Jan 9, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> Mr. H. said:
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Me too. But it appears Obama is doing nothing but trying to stifle domestic oil and gas production and not addressing imports.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 9, 2011)

Revere said:


> All of the battery technology manufacturing is Chinese.  So, just substitute dependence on the middle east with dependence on the Chinese.



Typical ignorant stupidity from Revere.

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## Mr. H. (Jan 9, 2011)

Expectations high for Argonne's battery technology
Material might double drive time for electric cars

Argonne battery: New Argonne battery material holds promise - chicagotribune.com

_It's nothing more than a piece of a battery that powers electric cars, but the technology developed at Argonne National Laboratory may be a turning point on the road to more efficient electric cars, experts say.

The reason: The material may enable them to travel twice as far as they do now before recharging by boosting the voltage of batteries, lightening their weight and extending their lives.

It's a patented composite cathode material Argonne scientists have been refining since inventing it in 2001. About a year ago, General Motors and LG Chem Ltd., a Korean battery-maker with a subsidiary in Michigan, approached Argonne and started negotiating licensing agreements that were announced last week at a teleconference.

"""This is the beginning of what would be a transformation of our transportation system,""" Argonne director Eric Isaacs said. """And that's huge. &#8230; The dawn of a new era."""_


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## loosecannon (Jan 10, 2011)

> Argonne, which emphasizes turning scientific breakthroughs into mainstream use, receives """a few million dollars a year""" in revenue from licensing agreements, Isaacs said. He declined to provide financial terms of Argonne's deal with GM and LG Chem.
> 
> """We're not looking to make a buck,""" he said.
> 
> ...



Interesting, hope it proves useful.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 10, 2011)

Swiss Zinc-Air Battery Company, ReVolt, Chooses Portland, Oregon For US Headquarters &#8211; Wants $30M in Stimulus Funding. &#8211; Gas 2.0

Setting its sights on the burgeoning US market for car batteries, cutting-edge Swiss zinc-air battery company, ReVolt, has decided to take advantage of Oregon&#8217;s generous business tax credits for development of next generation car technologies.


Announcing that it has selected Portland, Oregon as the location for its US headquarters and manufacturing center, ReVolt said it expects to create as many as 250 new jobs there. The partnership represents a coup for Oregon and Portland in the race to be the future electric car capital of the world.

............................................................................................................................

When it comes to next generation battery technologies, zinc-air holds a ton of promise. Purportedly, if you were to compare a zinc-air battery to a lithium-ion battery of the same size, the zinc-air battery would be able to hold 3 times the amount of energy as the lithium-ion battery. Also, given that zinc is a much more abundant material than lithium, it would not only make for cheaper batteries, it would also be a wiser choice for battery material to avoid future shortages.


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## Revere (Jan 10, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Swiss Zinc-Air Battery Company, ReVolt, Chooses Portland, Oregon For US Headquarters  Wants $30M in Stimulus Funding.  Gas 2.0
> 
> Setting its sights on the burgeoning US market for car batteries, cutting-edge Swiss zinc-air battery company, ReVolt, has decided to take advantage of Oregons generous business tax credits for development of next generation car technologies.
> 
> ...



Now the corporate welfare takers are coming from overseas.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 10, 2011)

If they build and manufacture a battery here that extends the range of a Leaf from 100 miles to 300 miles, who cares where they come from. We need manufacturing jobs, and we need an affordable long range EV battery.


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## Revere (Jan 10, 2011)

If it was viable it would not need corporate welfare.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 10, 2011)

Revolt Technology to manufacture eco-friendly zinc-air batteries in Portland - Portland Sustainable Living | Examiner.com

Zinc-air batteries are twice as efficient as Li-ion batteries but haven&#8217;t been practical in the past because of problems related to recharging. ReVolt seems to have solved the problems using technology first developed at the SINTEF research institute in Norway.

Zinc-based batteries are far less expensive to manufacture than lithium-based batteries and because zinc is more plentiful than lithium, the likelihood of future materials shortages are remote. 

The ReVolt zinc-air batteries should have a life of between 2,000 and 10,000 cycles and could substantially extend the range of electric vehicles. ReVolt, says that the batteries degrade into environmentally-safe substances won&#8217;t need a specialized battery recycling program, though the zinc could be reclaimed.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Continue reading on Examiner.com: Revolt Technology to manufacture eco-friendly zinc-air batteries in Portland - Portland Sustainable Living | Examiner.com Revolt Technology to manufacture eco-friendly zinc-air batteries in Portland - Portland Sustainable Living | Examiner.com


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## Revere (Jan 10, 2011)

Any company that's can't pony up $30M for R&D doesn't belong in the business of manufacturing technology like this.

Just a bunch of welfare tit suckers with suits on.


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## Flopper (Jan 10, 2011)

*The Volt was also named car of the year.  I think it should be obvious the electric and hybrid vehicles are the cars of the future and nothing is going to turn back the clock.  Yes, there will be problems with electrical capacity to support these new electric vehicles.  Hopefully new sources of electric power will be solar, wind, or nuclear, but even if oil is used in generating plants, their will be less pollution and greenhouse gases than produced gasoline vehicles.

Also, the efficiency of electric motors is much higher than the internal combustion engine, about 90% versus 30%. This means most of the energy in a gasoline engine is radiated as heat or it goes out the tailpipe.*


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## Old Rocks (Jan 10, 2011)

30% in the most efficient of ICEs. Most much less than that.


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## Flopper (Jan 10, 2011)

Revere said:


> All of the battery technology manufacturing is Chinese.  So, just substitute dependence on the middle east with dependence on the Chinese.


It's not too lake for the US to become the leader in this market if we invest in it.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 10, 2011)

Yep. This is where the Luddites like Revere are a pain in the ass. They cannot differentiate investment from waste. Waste is continueing to subsidize the oil and coal companies. Investment is investing in power that does not destroy our land and the quality of our life.


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## mdn2000 (Jan 10, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Swiss Zinc-Air Battery Company, ReVolt, Chooses Portland, Oregon For US Headquarters  Wants $30M in Stimulus Funding.  Gas 2.0
> 
> Setting its sights on the burgeoning US market for car batteries, cutting-edge Swiss zinc-air battery company, ReVolt, has decided to take advantage of Oregons generous business tax credits for development of next generation car technologies.
> 
> ...



Where are you going to get the electricity, Wind power is too weak to make Zinc.


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## Mr. H. (Jan 10, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Yep. This is where the Luddites like Revere are a pain in the ass. They cannot differentiate investment from waste. Waste is continueing to subsidize the oil and coal companies. Investment is investing in power that does not destroy our land and the quality of our life.



What kind of an investment is it when the government kicks back thousands of dollars to someone willing to buy an electric vehicle? It helps sales??

The dealer gets his sticker price, the consumer gets a heavily discounted vehicle, and the government is out millions upon millions of dollars. 

I'm fine with EV's, PV's, windmills and the like.  But subsidies for alternatives and renewables isn't an investment - it's a giveaway. These energy generators have little hope of ever competing in the marketplace with hydrocarbons. 

Alternatives/renewables do in their own way affect land, sea, and air and therefor our "quality of life". 

And re: oil company "subsidies". I've sunk hundreds of thousands of dollars into deep  vertical holes in the ground over the past 20 years and have yet to see a check in my mailbox with an Uncle Sam return address.


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## Revere (Jan 10, 2011)

It's not investment when government does it. It's a bailout.


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## uscitizen (Jan 10, 2011)

Old Rocks said:


> Yep. This is where the Luddites like Revere are a pain in the ass. They cannot differentiate investment from waste. Waste is continueing to subsidize the oil and coal companies. Investment is investing in power that does not destroy our land and the quality of our life.



He is merely a parrot for his corporate masters.


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## mdn2000 (Jan 10, 2011)

When you make Zinc you need a constant source of electricity, that is not wind. That is not solar. 

You cannot make an electric car with wind or sun.


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## Revere (Jan 10, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> > Yep. This is where the Luddites like Revere are a pain in the ass. They cannot differentiate investment from waste. Waste is continueing to subsidize the oil and coal companies. Investment is investing in power that does not destroy our land and the quality of our life.
> ...



No, just not stupid enough to dump my used Ford Mustang for something that requires endless infusions of corporate welfare to keep viable.


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## Flopper (Jan 11, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> Old Rocks said:
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> > Yep. This is where the Luddites like Revere are a pain in the ass. They cannot differentiate investment from waste. Waste is continueing to subsidize the oil and coal companies. Investment is investing in power that does not destroy our land and the quality of our life.
> ...


*Not all subsidies are bad.  A subsidy for a new technology that benefits the nation, such as the hybrid car subsidy, which expired in 2010 is a good thing providing it's phased out as sales increase and the technology matures.  When hybrid cars first came on the market, they had many deficiencies and only one manufacture willing to build them.  Subsides helped increase sales and improvements.  Today there are at least a dozen models of hybrids from a number of manufactures.

Electric cars have the potential for reducing our dependence on foreign oil, and decreasing pollution, and greenhouse gases.  Subsides can improve sales and profitability and stimulate development of improvements.  Greater sales will mean lower prices.  The amount of the subsidy decreases each year the model is on the market and is eventually phased out.  The hybrid car subsidy worked quite well.  I expect the EV subsidy will also be successful.*


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## mdn2000 (Jan 11, 2011)

Flopper said:


> Mr. H. said:
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Takes more energy to build and run a hybrid so that kind of makes it less efficient. The subsidy is because it is not profitable. No profit means its a failure. Always will be.


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## westwall (Jan 11, 2011)

RGR said:


> Mr. H. said:
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> > What difference does it make if emmissions are coming from a tailpipe or a smokestack?
> ...







Not while they are operating but making them creates a crapload of emissions.  And not just of CO2 but of some real noxious gases.


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## SFC Ollie (Jan 11, 2011)

When they have one that will get me to my kids house 600 miles away I might think about it.


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## Flopper (Jan 11, 2011)

mdn2000 said:


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*Of course it takes more energy to build the car because it has a battery and an electric motor in addition to a gas engine.  The additional energy used in manufacture is small compared to the energy saved driving the vehicle.  The less we rely on internal combustion engines the more energy we will save.  Electric motors such as in a hybrid or a manufacturing plant have an efficiency in order of 90% or higher.  The internal combustion engine typical has an efficiency in order of 20 to 30%.   The more we use electric motors in place internal combustion engines, the more energy the country will save.

The hybrid is a stepping stone to full electric vehicles.*


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## Revere (Jan 11, 2011)

Flopper said:


> mdn2000 said:
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Wrong.  The construction of facilities to create energy needed to convert 225 million cars to electric isn't in the cards for the left.

This is about us getting by with less.


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## mdn2000 (Jan 11, 2011)

Flopper said:


> mdn2000 said:
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The energy saved is nothing compared to the energy used, I throw enough batteries away as it is, now we get to throw more away. Get rid of the battery I say it sounds great, I have no problem with an electric motor. Still, does it really save energy when you have to recharge the battery. Where is that electricity coming from, today it comes from fossil fuels. Does it take less fossil fuel to make electricity that is than stored into a battery then later used to move a car that weighs a ton. I am actually asking at this point, what is the energy that is used to move one ton. 

If we had enough Nuclear power and you do not mind creating more waste, as in an electric car or hybrid does not last as long as a regular car, but still, you got to throw them out more often and if we are to save all our resources I just cannot see how you save money or resources by using more resources. 

Keep your old car, you buy a new one even if it runs on laughing gas you have used resources we will not get back. 

I say get rid of the battery and let the commuters run electric slot cars. Batteries, my battery is already bad in my three year old truck. I have half a dozen car batteries at home. I cannot throw them away, I have to take them to a special dump, not even the normal dump. Maybe I can pay Auto Zone to take them, but I figure maybe I can sell the lead one day.

Hell, I cannot even sit in one of those tiny boxes let alone risk my life in one. So are people in hybrid hypocrites when they drive over 55?


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## Flopper (Jan 11, 2011)

Revere said:


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When we are able to replace all gas powered cars with electric, America would realize a cost saving $63 billion dollars a year or about 1.2 trillion over 20 years.  The actual savings would be more if gas prices rise.  At $3 billion/power plant, we could build all the power plants and supporting infrastructure we would need.

Not only would America be energy independent but the billions of dollars we spent polluting our air could be used to rebuild America's infrastructure.


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## Flopper (Jan 11, 2011)

mdn2000 said:


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*I don't know the amount energy it takes to move one ton.  However, I do know the amount energy used by an electric motor to move that ton is approximately one third of what an internal combustion engine uses.

Your points about batteries are valid, however battery technology is improving and costs are going down as economies of scale have their effect.

Electric power plants are very efficient at convert fuels to electricity, either nuclear or fossil fuels.  Also the pollution control in power plants are far better than automobiles.

Regarding the pollution problem of fossil fuels versus nuclear fuels, I would rather have the byproducts buried in metal containers than have to breath them.*


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## mdn2000 (Jan 11, 2011)

westwall said:


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Taking them down also requires a tremendous amount of energy. The worlds largest electrical power plant in material size that produces a fraction of energy becomes the worlds largest pile of garbage after twenty years if not sooner. 

Piles of garbage are not pollution, no CO2 produced, its clean, even as garbage it gives to the environment.


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## mdn2000 (Jan 11, 2011)

Flopper said:


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I am not an expert on Hybrids. I will most likely take a little time to look into them. Improved batteries are great and all but seems like building high rise housing in downtown Los Angeles would save much more energy than if everyone drove Hybrids. To drive a hundred miles into LA for me can take three or four hours. 

Housing on top of the industry. Biggest  energy savings we could ever dream of.

I am all for cleaning things up, I have seen the difference between night and day in my life time. I just cannot see hybrids as anything more than a passing fad.


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## mdn2000 (Jan 11, 2011)

I was not looking for this but saw it on MSN when I signed out of my account. It seems Hybrid vehicles do suck.

Porsche Is Back - MSN Autos



> Porsche 918 RSR
> Click to enlarge picture
> 
> Porsche 918 RSR
> ...


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## Flopper (Jan 12, 2011)

mdn2000 said:


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I use to think hybrids were a fad and would be replaced by EV's but not anymore.  I doubt the EV's will ever replace trucks, SUV's, and higher performance vehicles.  They just don't develop the torque and I don't see how they ever will.  On the other hand, hybrid versions of SUV'S, small trucks, sports cars and full size cars are now on the market.  Within 5 years, I think we will see hybrid versions of just about ever car on the market.  With the improvements in battery technology, I would bet that it will difficult to find a new card that isn't a hybrid in 10 years.


My wife got me to buy a hybrid last year.  I had my doubts but after driving it for a year on long and short trips, I love it.  It's got lots pickup, great gas mileage, and it's fun to drive.  It also has some advantages over gas vehicles.  When running in electric mode, it's so quiet you can't hear it.  When it switches back and forth between electric and gas, it's so smooth you don't even notice.  You get great mileage out of the brakes because it uses the brakes to help charge the high voltage battery.  The electric motor is maintenance free. Since the electric motor and gas engine each run about half the time, they should last a long time.  If the gasoline engine or the electric motor fails you still drive the car using the other engine or motor.


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## mdn2000 (Jan 12, 2011)

Flopper said:


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Do you live in a cold climate, just wondering if there is any effect on the battery in the cold. Like I said I do do not know too much about them. Hope you have good luck with the maintenance. If people can keep their cars a long time that will make a big difference as far as the amount of raw material we use. 

Its good to conserve.


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## Mr. H. (Jan 12, 2011)

I've got a couple of cold-climate hybrid-owning friends. Yes the mileage plummets in winter.


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## Flopper (Jan 12, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> I've got a couple of cold-climate hybrid-owning friends. Yes the mileage plummets in winter.


The efficiency of internal combustion engines are lower when they are cold.  This applies to both hybrids and non-hybrids.


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## Flopper (Jan 12, 2011)

mdn2000 said:


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I don't believe there is any significant effect on the battery, however the gas engine uses more gas when it's cold but that applies to any gas engine.  My gas mileage runs 39.6 in warm months and 38.5 in cold months.  I have a Ford Fusion which has a 2 liter gas engine, larger than the Prius gas engine, so I would expect that the Prius gas mileage which is near 50 mpg would drop less in winter.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 12, 2011)

Flopper said:


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I have a very large 1 ton van. Were I to pull the engine, transmission, and the guts out of the third member, and put high torque hub motors on the back wheels, the amount of batteries I could put in the engine compartment, and underneath, would probably give me a longer range than the present double tanks. If they can get the price of batteries down, that would be the way to go. A company that makes hub motors did this a few years ago.

Electric Mini: 0-60 in 4 Seconds: It Has Motors In Its Wheels : TreeHugger

A British engineering firm has put together a high-performance hybrid version of BMW's Mini Cooper. The PML Mini QED has a top speed of 150 mph, a 0-60 mph time of 4.5 seconds. The car uses a small gasoline engine with four 160 horsepower electric motors  one on each wheel. The car has been designed to run for four hours of combined urban/extra urban driving, powered only by a battery and bank of ultra capacitors. The QED supports an all-electric range of 200-250 miles and has a total range of about 932 miles (1,500 km). For longer journeys at higher speeds, a small conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) is used to re-charge the battery. In this hybrid mode, fuel economies of up to 80mpg can be achieved.


Explains Martin Boughtwood, PMLs MD: Until now, most electric vehicles have been little more than souped-up milk floats, limited by range and speed, with compromised performance. For those with a green conscience who also value an enhanced motoring experience, there is still something missing.

Working in partnership with our customer, Synergy Innovations, we set out to demonstrate what our electric wheel technology is capable of. We simply took a standard BMW Mini One, discarded the engine, the disc brakes, the wheels, and the gearbox. These components were replaced by four of our electric wheels, a lithium polymer battery, a large ultra capacitor, a very small ICE with generator (so small it almost fits alongside the spare wheel), an energy management system and a sexy in-car display module.


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## chikenwing (Jan 12, 2011)

Its a good start,they are spendy now and out of reach for most,but as with anything electrical/electronic they will come down in price. It will be a long time before they replace big trucks and such develop a mini nuke plant for your car then you will have something.The sun and the atom are our energy future,for that matter the sun always has been anyways.


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## mdn2000 (Jan 13, 2011)

chikenwing said:


> Its a good start,they are spendy now and out of reach for most,but as with anything electrical/electronic they will come down in price. It will be a long time before they replace big trucks and such develop a mini nuke plant for your car then you will have something.The sun and the atom are our energy future,for that matter the sun always has been anyways.



They already developed the mini-nuke, they even had a Nuclear powered airplane.

Nuclear powered Aircraft Carriers get refueled once every 20 years, just a guess, but its pretty amazing.

Nuclear power is the only way to go. Problem is if we went that route we would be the strongest country forever and the Liberals will just not allow that.


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## Flopper (Jan 13, 2011)

chikenwing said:


> Its a good start,they are spendy now and out of reach for most,but as with anything electrical/electronic they will come down in price. It will be a long time before they replace big trucks and such develop a mini nuke plant for your car then you will have something.The sun and the atom are our energy future,for that matter the sun always has been anyways.


That long time is getting a lot shorter.

Hybrid Truck Unveiled by Kenworth

Hybrid Truck Unveiled by Kenworth : TreeHugger


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## westwall (Jan 13, 2011)

Flopper said:


> Mr. H. said:
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Yes but the ICE vehicles' efficiency drops by maybe 2-3%  Whereas the hybrid will drop by up to 30%.  A pure EV will drop by more than 50% in some cases.  The technology however is improving all the time so within the next ten years or so I think we will see a reasonably efficient EV that the average person could afford and actually want.  Currently it's not there.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 13, 2011)

We have had efficient hybrids hauling major tonnage since before WW2. They are call diesel locomotives. 

Walleyes, you made a statement about the efficiency dropping 30% on hybrids on cold days. Care to back that up? I don't think most regard you as a trusted source here.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 13, 2011)

Electric Gullwing: Mercedes Previews a Shockingly Awesome Sports Car | Popular Science

After a week of rumor-mill musings online, Mercedes-Benz and its high-performance specialist division AMG offered a first look at a prototype all-electric sports car. And by "first look" we mean "better use your imagination." The company released some details on a version of its upcoming SLS AMG roadster with an electric drive system. Propelling the concept car are four in-wheel electric motors providing 526 horsepower and a maximum torque of 649 lb-ft. That means, when the SLS AMG electric hits the streets -- rumored to happen in 2015 -- it'll likely be quite a performer.

Why the in-wheel motors instead of wheel-hub electric motors, as in some prototypes? Mercedes says it's all about reducing unsprung mass. The company says it's also engineered the car to have the same low center of gravity and balanced weight distribution as the gasoline-powered model. Also, a software-controlled all-wheel-drive system, dubbed AMG eDrive, micromanages torque delivery down to the individual wheel. The first prototype will get a liquid-cooled 48 kWh, 400-volt lithium-ion battery that can be charged by a plug-in system as well as regenerative braking. More details to be announced.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 13, 2011)

*With the number of EVs coming on the market, a battery manufacturer that could increase the capacity of a battery by a factor of two or three would have a ready made market.*

A Bmw Megacity EV sports car next?

BMW sales and marketing boss Ian Robertson has confirmed the soon to arrive EV Sports car which is one of the many variants of BMW&#8217;s Megacity Electric four-seater cars. More of such variants is also expected from BMW in near future. 

Different formats of the Megacity would be launched in 2013 as per Robertson. The completely different design that the sports car beholds with its Vision Efficient Dynamics would make this car a pure electric sports car, he has stated. It would he stated sport and be sold under the BMW badge. Name of the vehicle is yet under consideration but would be an aggressive one. The Megacity itself is made of carbon fiber and about 30% weight reduction has been achieved by this instead of using aluminum which once again is lighter by 30% when compared to steel body cars. Megacity has been set to achieve high targets but it would not be low priced given the high development costs that it has gone through in its making


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## Flopper (Jan 13, 2011)

westwall said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. H. said:
> ...


I know that is not true, at least it isn't for my Ford Fusion.  While the engine is cold the ICE runs until the engine is warm.  After that it runs in electric mode most of the time.  My mileage drops in winter about  4% compared to summer and we get some really cold winters.  I don't see how there can be a significant decrease in efficiency.  The high voltage battery stays quite warm.  In fact there is a fan to keep it cool.  There should be almost no difference in the efficiency of electric motor/battery.  The Atkinson-cycle engine is up to 10% more efficient than a conventional four-stroke gas engines.  I researched the Atkinson engine and could not find any difference in cold weather performance of the Atkinson versus other ICE's.


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## GHook93 (Feb 5, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> Great! Now lets talk about the electricity needed to charge all these vehicles.



I think Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear, Hydro, while trying to make solar and wind more useful, efficient, effective, less expense and real alternatives (because as much as I wish they were right now, they aren't!).

We have more than enough coal to last us a very long time. We have an abundance of natural gas, we have already made hydro a very effective source and we need to start building some new nuclear plants (didn't Obama campaign on building more nuclear plants, yet not one more new one )!


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## Trajan (Feb 5, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> Great! Now lets talk about the electricity needed to charge all these vehicles.



yup...hers san frans answer-

    *

      Expedited permitting and installation of electric vehicle charging outlets at homes, businesses, parking lots, and other buildings throughout the Bay Area;
    *

      Incentives for employers to install EV charging systems in their workplaces and provide similar incentives to parking facilities and other locations where EV charging stations can be installed;
    *

      Harmonize local regulations and standards across the region that govern EV infrastructure to achieve regulatory consistency for EV companies as well as expanded range for EV consumers;
    *

      Establish common government programs that promote the purchase of EVs;
    *

      Link EV programs and infrastructure to regional transit and air quality programs;
    *

      Establish programs for aggressive pooled-purchase orders for EVs in municipal, state government, and private sector fleets, and future commitment of purchasing preference for EV vehicles;
    *

      Expedited permitting and approval for facilities that provide extended-range driving capability for EVs in the region through battery exchange locations or fast-charging;
    *

      Identify and secure suitable standard (110V) electric outlets for charging low-voltage EVs in every government building in 2009;
    *

      Identify roll-out plan for placement of 220V EV-charging equipment throughout each city including city parking lots and curbside parking.


Read more: SF Bay Area vies to be country's electric vehicle capital | Digital Media - CNET News


guess who gets  to pay for this? 

and they plan on subsidizing house installations too....

and the logistics. quick charges still take approx 2-4 hours, the amperage they pull will be supplied by what? unlike gas, you pull in and in 3 minutes later you're full,  what if you don't have 2-4 hours to sit around waiting for the charge to get you home? what? you'll need what again?

and where do the cars that don't require this park? you now the evil old fossil fuel cars? because we know whats next, a code that says each lot, co. lot, apt bldgs etc. will be required to have spaces ala handicapped dedicated to elec. cars only......yea, you can always count on the gov eh? the gov. could fu* up a wet dream.


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## whitehall (Feb 5, 2011)

End of oil? How would you like to fly in an electric 747? Stop and plug it in every ten miles? While lefties are salavating about little electric cars nobody wants to buy we are mortgaging our grandkids future to buy oil from tyrants instead of drilling it ourselves.


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## GHook93 (Feb 6, 2011)

whitehall said:


> End of oil? How would you like to fly in an electric 747? Stop and plug it in every ten miles? While lefties are salavating about little electric cars nobody wants to buy we are mortgaging our grandkids future to buy oil from tyrants instead of drilling it ourselves.



How about killing two birds with one stone. Americans are in an obesity epidemic. Have all seats in planes transferred into exercise bikes. Have all the passengers power the airplane, while getting into shape.  How does that sound? 

Did I say end of oil or foreign oil? Oil is used in a lot of manufactured items, such as asphalt! Of course airplanes can't go off oil anytime soon!

But if we can get our cars off oil, then we will have enough oil reserves from our current domestic locations (which isn't including all the rich oil reserves that the liberals won't let us drill in) for centuries! 

My man desire is to see our cars go off of oil and more specifically foreign oil!


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