# health insurance companies going out of business .. DUE TO OBAMACARE!!!



## healthmyths (Sep 21, 2012)

Experts were trying to tell Obamacare idiots IT wouldn't work!

Tried to point out that the fundamental premise of 50 million "uninsured" was a lie.. with 10 million NOT citizens, 14 million already covered by Medicaid and 
18 million under age 34, make over $50k that PAY their health services WITHOUT insurance cheaper.. that real number is 8 million!
BUT if the Obamacare IDIOTS didn't even get this number correct.. OMG... wait till you see what else that means!!!


The boss at one of the nations biggest health insurers recently dropped a very public bombshell about the future of his industry  *by forecasting its imminent death*.

At a February conference in Las Vegas, Aetna president Mark Bertolini told a crowd of thousands that 
*the end of insurance companies, the way weve run the business in the past, is here.*

This isnt just industry whining  its the truth. And the chief reason for the shift is Obamacare  to its critics dismay and its champions delight.

One of Obamacares most disruptive new restrictions is its *minimum medical loss ratio (MLR)*. This rule requires insurers to spend 80 to 85 percent of all premiums received on claims. The former governs the individual and small-group markets, the latter the large-group market.  

The idea is to prevent insurers from funneling excessive amounts of revenue toward administrative expenses or profit. If the company doesnt hit the 80- or 85-percent target, it must rebate its customers the difference.

This rule may sound reasonable. After all, who doesnt want to get better value for their premium dollars?

But its exerting a serious toll on insurers bottom lines. WellPoint, the countrys biggest insurer, took an estimated $300-million hit last year because of the rule. Aetna suffered $100 million in damage at the hands of the MLR.

The decline has already started. Aetna has pulled out of the individual insurance market in Colorado and Indiana and out of the small-group market in Michigan. 
The Iowa-based Principal Financial Group stopped selling health insurance entirely, leaving 840,000 people without coverage. 
And Unicare has stopped selling policies in Virginia.

These developments are just the beginning. As Obamacare locks into place, the economic pressures on insurers and taxpayers will only grow stronger. Indeed, the Congressional Budget Office just revealed that Obamacare will cost $1.76 trillion between 2012 and 2022  about $800 billion more than the Office estimated when the bill was signed in March 2010

The End of Private Health Insurance In America - Forbes

NOTE:  The Average is almost 80% of every premium $ goes to claims:

FACTS why are people so ignorant when the Internet provides this!
1) % of premiums spent on Claims:
                          Total Premium   % of Premium      
                       in billions - 2009     paid in claims   
UnitedHealth Group      $81,186               82.30% 
WellPoint                     $61,251               80.60%    
Aetna                          $30,951               76.90%    
Humana                      $28,946               83.20%   
Cigna                          $19,101               82.30%    
Health Net                   $15,367               83.90% 

AVERAGE % of Premiums paid in claims:  81.53%!!!

Fortune 500 2009: Industry: Health Care: Insurance and Managed Care


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## chikenwing (Sep 21, 2012)

That's what they want,them evil insurance dudes must go!!


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## kidrocks (Sep 21, 2012)

Good... it's called, tough love. In business, only the strong survive according to supply and demand. Let the market dictate.


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## healthmyths (Sep 21, 2012)

kidrocks said:


> Good... it's called, tough love. In business, only the strong survive according to supply and demand. Let the market dictate.



NO you f...king idiot!
If they go out then we don't have:
1) 1,300 companies to CHOOSE from.. WE have ONLY the single payer!
2) YOU have an idea where the $100 billion a year that these companies PAY in Federal/State/Local taxes (including YOUR local property taxes!) will come from?
3) Any idea where the payroll taxes which idiots like you have evidently NO IDEA will come from in that the 400,000 employees pay their SS/Medicare and now evidently 
    the BIG surprise to you and other idiots... THESE EMPLOYERS MATCH dollar for dollar!  PLUS these employers also pay for UNEMPLOYMENT CHECKS!
    Where will that money come from ??

4) finally The problem was NEVER the insurance companies!  They paid the bills that came in 80% of premiums go out in claims!
    The problem was and I wish idiots like you would look this up.. EMTALA.. it means hospitals must if they take Medicare see uninsured patients!  Well that was nice and commendable in 1986!  But today Medicare pays some hospitals' claims that are marked up 6,000% because Medicare knows hospitals are "padding and passing" on!

So...that means Medicare is paying more insurance companies paying more!

THEN the other $600 billion/lb gorilla .. DEFENSIVE MEDICINE!  Medicare/insurance are paying claims submitted for duplicate tests,specialists ALL because as a recent study of 90% physicians say they do that out of FEAR of LAWSUITS!!!


NONE of these two gorillas were addressed in Obamacare which couldn't even comprehend that 10 million of the uninsured aren't citizens.. 14 million already covered by Medicaid and 18 million counted as uninsured PAY THEIR own way and didn't want insurance OR NEED IT!

Thus 8 million that truly need coverage COULD have been covered by TAXING lawyers' $100 billion and using that to buy insurance for the 8 million uninsured!
Simple solution that would drive down defensive medicine costs/ and eliminate "PADDING AND PASSING"!!!

Too simple though... NOT a single payer system as Obama and idiots WANT without THINKING of the consequences!


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## chikenwing (Sep 21, 2012)

Not to mention all the lost jobs


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

At say average of $50,000 a year times 400,000 employees @ 7.65% SS/Medicare paid by employees: $1.53 billion; matched by employer $1.53 billion.
Nearly $3 billion in SS/Medicare payments.. gone!
Then we have the change from $20 billion a year going into the economy/ paying taxes to at $300/week 99 weeks: $11.8 billion unemployment checks!

Then as I pointed out the insurance companies pay local property taxes, local/state/Federal income taxes over $100 billion a year!

Who will make that up?


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## Lakhota (Sep 22, 2012)

Another lying NaziCon thread.

The only real solution is *Single-Payer*.


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## SuMar (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Another lying NaziCon thread.
> 
> The only real solution is *Single-Payer*.



Have you provided a link to contradict?


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## tyroneweaver (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Another lying NaziCon thread.
> 
> The only real solution is *Single-Payer*.




solution to what


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## editec (Sep 22, 2012)

*



health insurance companies going out of business .. DUE TO OBAMACARE!!! 

Click to expand...

 
Nonsense.

Go read a book.

*


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## hazlnut (Sep 22, 2012)

I've seen some retarded posts in my time.... but this takes the cake.

Blue Cross / Blue Shield loves the ACA.  They can't wait until 2014.


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## Political Junky (Sep 22, 2012)

ACA requires folks to buy private insurance. It's great for their business.


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## buckeye45_73 (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Another lying NaziCon thread.
> 
> The only real solution is *Single-Payer*.


 

Ah yes Lakhota and his single payer thread, wooohooo, the rich get the benefits and we get shit insurance, cant wait for single payer....God you're dumb


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## zeke (Sep 22, 2012)

The insurance companies WROTE the legislation. Now this weird dude wants to claim that the insurnace companies wrote legislation that will put them out of business?

What bull shit.


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## SniperFire (Sep 22, 2012)

tyroneweaver said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Another lying NaziCon thread.
> ...





Freedom.


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

zeke said:


> The insurance companies WROTE the legislation. Now this weird dude wants to claim that the insurnace companies wrote legislation that will put them out of business?
> 
> What bull shit.



Hey ... I am not saying it!
AGAIN READ what the 
"The boss at one of the nations biggest health insurers recently dropped a very public bombshell about the future of his industry  *by forecasting its imminent death*.

At a February conference in Las Vegas, *Aetna president Mark Bertolini *told a crowd of thousands that  *the end of insurance companies, the way weve run the business in the past, is here.*

This isnt just industry whining  its the truth. And the chief reason for the shift is Obamacare  to its critics dismay and its champions delight.

One of Obamacares most disruptive new restrictions is its *minimum medical loss ratio (MLR)*. This rule requires insurers to spend 80 to 85 percent of all premiums received on claims. The former governs the individual and small-group markets, the latter the large-group market.  

The idea is to prevent insurers from funneling excessive amounts of revenue toward administrative expenses or profit. If the company doesnt hit the 80- or 85-percent target, it must rebate its customers the difference.

This rule may sound reasonable. After all, who doesnt want to get better value for their premium dollars?

But its exerting a serious toll on insurers bottom lines. WellPoint, the countrys biggest insurer, took an estimated $300-million hit last year because of the rule. 
Aetna suffered $100 million in damage at the hands of the MLR.

The decline has already started. 
*Aetna has pulled out of the individual insurance market in Colorado and Indiana and out of the small-group market in Michigan. *
_The Iowa-based Principal Financial Group stopped selling health insurance entirely, leaving 840,000 people without coverage. 
_And Unicare has stopped selling policies in Virginia.

These developments are just the beginning. As Obamacare locks into place, the economic pressures on insurers and taxpayers will only grow stronger. Indeed, the Congressional Budget Office just revealed that Obamacare will cost $1.76 trillion between 2012 and 2022  about $800 billion more than the Office estimated when the bill was signed in March 2010

The End of Private Health Insurance In America - Forbes

BUT see ignorant SH...ts like you who have NO IDEA what a *Medlcal loss ratio* is much less the impact don't have the foggiest idea!

Tell you what... I have no idea what your job is... MINE?  I help Medicare physicians, laboratories, etc. find out if they'll get paid by Medicare!
Do you have any idea how much experience and knowledge that takes??

BUT the big difference between you and ME is I'm evidently smart enough to know that I would NEVER presume to tell YOU anything about your job!  You must know what you are doing ... even if it means being a professional fecal removal expert!

So unless YOU can COUNTER the above President of Aetna and HIS experiences AND MY experiences ... shut...the f...k UP!
YOU haven't shown ANY PROOF to your stupid idiotic statement: "the insurance companies WROTE the legislation" because idiot if they did THERE WOULD BE no :
1)Mandated Medical Loss ratio of 85% - IDIOT!
2)Pre-existing conditions would not be eliminated in ACA,...
    the foundation of ANY insurance policy i.e. WHAT are my risks as an insurer that I won't have to pay out!  Happens in all insurance EXCEPT now
   in HEALTH insurance ... AND to the idiots like you , you think that's GREAT!!!!

You guys are such f...king idiots!


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## Political Junky (Sep 22, 2012)

Perhaps if the CEOs of those insurance companies took a salary cut they could survive.
The Veteran's Administration and Medicare get the job done on far less money.


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## ba1614 (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Another lying NaziCon thread.
> 
> The only real solution is *Single-Payer*.



That must be the reason for the Canadian lawsuits that are arguing their "single payer" system doesn't guarantee medical treatment, all it guarantees is a spot in the waiting line.

 After spending most of this year up there and talking to people, they can have that bullshit.

Four B.C. patients, private clinics owner sue gov't over long waits for health care


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## francoHFW (Sep 22, 2012)

Just a bit biased LOL


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## francoHFW (Sep 22, 2012)

Canada approval rate 86%, ours 34% 2007


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Perhaps if the CEOs of those insurance companies took a salary cut they could survive.
> The Veteran's Administration and Medicare get the job done on far less money.



WHAT a f...king IDIOT!!

Again YOU show absolute IGNORANCE about how health insurance works AND even MORE ignorance about MEDICARE.. I won't say anything about VA because I'm NOT an expert on that but I am on Medicare and for your information you dumb. ff...k!!

1) Medicare itself in D.C. as part of HHS DOES NOT process ONE single CLAIM!
    Now I'm going to SHARE with you some INSIDE information about Medicare!
    Download this fileartBAllowedServicesAllowedChargesPayment2008  look it up on Google
    A.  the MEDICARE ADMINISTRATIVE CONTRACTORS (9 private for profit companies that BID to manage the 50 states in Medicare Part B (little inside knowledge for you idiots... Part B are physicians, etc.  NOT hospitals which are Part A!)
These 9 contracts (known as MACs) received claims for 4,276,198,985 SERVICES performed by Part B!
The total claims submitted: $113,135,699,782 and the MACs paid $87,623,828,908 or 77% of ALL Part B claims!

SO dumb...f..k without MAKING any further stupid statements PROVE DIFFERENTLY that Medicare gets the job done!!!
YOU don't know crap because each of the 9 MACs that MANAGE Medicare MAKE A Profit!

NOW you dumb..f...k!!!
How about explaining further your dumb ass comment in LIGHT of THIS FACT again I have access to 6,000+ hospitals and WHAT THEY Charged Medicare and what it COST them!  YOUR dumb ass comment is so far off the mark!

In 2009 the University Community Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 2,110 claims for CAT scan no contrast  :Each claim averaged: at $2,635  billed Medicare... 
But the hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN:  $43    a mark up 6,127.91%

AGAIN dumb.ffl..k  tell me how efficient a system is if it PAYS knowingly 6,000% MARKUP?????

So without one shred of proof for your stupid comment: "Medicare get the job done on far less money."

I mean YOU think that Medicare paying a 6,000% markup is EFFICIENT??????


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

francoHFW said:


> Canada approval rate 86%, ours 34% 2007



So why do Canadians keep coming to the USA for health care?

Maybe you should use the internet like I did and find a web site like this: Timely Medical Services
Timely Medical Alternatives is the only medical brokerage company of its kind in all of Canada. 
We help Canadians from every province obtain urgently needed diagnostic imaging and surgical procedures. 
If you are in need of anything from a routine MRI to a medically necessary surgery, we are here to help.
Since 2003, Timely Medical Alternatives has helped thousands of Canadians leave the increasingly long public waiting lists, and take matters into their own hands. 
We help Canadians from every province obtain virtually any type of medical procedure.
If you are in need of a surgical or diagnostic procedure, contact us and we can give you a quote within 24 hours.

Fact No. 1:  Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.
 Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom.  
Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway.  
The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Fact No. 2:  Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. 
Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

Fact No. 3:  Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.  
Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease.  By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

 Fact No. 4:  Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.  
Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

    * Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
    * Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
    * More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
    * Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

Fact No. 5:  Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.  Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent).  Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."[5]

WOULD YOU LIKE MORE FACTS especially about how poor 308 million Americans are vs 33 million Canadians
because Canada's health system is superior???

10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care | NCPA

NOW is the SOURCE (where is yours for this statement: Canada approval rate 86%,"
Are Patients in Universal Healthcare Countries Less Satisfied? &#8211; denialism blog

60% of Canadians say a fundamental changes needed!   57% UK... 48% USA!
Note in this study that 28% of Canadians receive the best medical technology  vs USA 38%
28% Canadians very confident they get hig-quality safe care...... 35% USA

NOW because of the USA according to a survey 90% of physicians say they because of fear of lawsuits spend $600 billion in defensive medicine..
and as a result in Canada 12% say doctors treatments were no benefit.. 20% for USA!  Directly relates to Americans KNOW their physicians practicing $600 billion waste out of fear!


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

*health insurance companies going out of business .. DUE TO OBAMACARE!!! *

As it should be.


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## Amazed (Sep 22, 2012)

kidrocks said:


> Good... it's called, tough love. In business, only the strong survive according to supply and demand. Let the market dictate.



Too fucking funny.
You don't even know how stupid you look typing that.

The market isn't "dictating" anything you moron, the Goverment is, god liberals are stupid.

The 80-85 cents of every dollar for claims and the no pre-existing clause were the first shots fired.

Next comes the Gov dictating WHAT policies can be sold by regulating them through the State Exchanges....

In this little nugget they begin  telling the Companies WHAT must be covered by EVERY policy and how much they can CHARGE for evey policy.....all designed to do what the OP is saying, drive private companies out.

Oh yes...and as for that policy Obama said you can keep if you want to?

You can...until the moment ANY change is applied to it...whether its a coverage change...or a premium hike...then guess what happens????

The policy goes away and if they wish to stay in the marketplace....they must submit to the exchange rules.

What the market dictates my ass....


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> *health insurance companies going out of business .. DUE TO OBAMACARE!!! *
> 
> As it should be.



So you are willing to put 400,000 more people on unemployment checks 99 weeks for $11 billion?
You willing to pay MORE in Federal/state/local income taxes that would remove $100 billion a year?
You willing to explain where Medicare/SS would get the $3 billion a year that comes from the employees AND employers if they are bankrupt?

I can't believe how f..king stupid people like you  are!
Where did YOU ever get your anti-capitalism attitude that ALL businesses are evil.  ALL profits are evil!

Private insurance companies PAY for a FACT under penalty of LAW 80% of every dollar in premium out in claims!

LIKE other idiots YOU are so bassackwards!  The insurance companies pay the claims submitted you idiot!
The insurance companies MUST make a profit to build RESERVES UNDER LAW!

And again you idiots that WANT businesses to go bankrupt!  HOw. f...king DUMB!

IDIOTS... the $100 billion in taxes will come from YOU!  How stupid!


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

Why don't you idiots that HATE insurance companies get as angry at lawyers?
I mean they according to a survey of 1,300 physicians are the reason doctors submit duplicate tests,
refer to specialists.. to the tune of $600 billion a year!  All out of fear of lawsuits!

So when that $600 billion in services HIT Medicare/private insurance are they paid?  Of course they are!

And so you idiots that believe there are 50 million "uninsured" EVEN though 10 million are not citizens, 14 million are Already covered by Medicaid and 18 million PAY their own way.. which means there is less then 8 million truly need insurance... you idiots BLAME insurance companies!

How many times does it take to explain  INSURANCE CoMPANIES on average pay 80% of all premiums out in claims!  that is NOW by idiot Obamacare required 85%!
And as a result.. this will as the President of Aetna cause health insurance companies to stop offering health insurance!

A simple solution would REDUCE the $600 billion in defensive medicine AND reduce the "padding and passing" by hospitals to cover their "uncompensated" costs!

BUT most of you idiots HAVE NO idea of what I'm describing do you???


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## Bfgrn (Sep 22, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> Experts were trying to tell Obamacare idiots IT wouldn't work!
> 
> Tried to point out that the fundamental premise of 50 million "uninsured" was a lie.. with 10 million NOT citizens, 14 million already covered by Medicaid and
> 18 million under age 34, make over $50k that PAY their health services WITHOUT insurance cheaper.. that real number is 8 million!
> ...



*Koch Brothers Financed 'Research' Institute Steps Up Misleading Obamacare Attacks - Forbes*

Sally Pipes, the President & CEO of the Koch Brothers funded Pacific Research Institute (which also received or currently receives hefty amounts of cash from corporations such as PhRMA, Pfizer and Exxon Mobile), recently shared her view of the findings of a Deloitte survey of Americas physicians, offering the study up as the latest proof of how Obamacare is destroying the nations health care system.

Having reviewed the survey prior to reading Ms. Pipes article, I came away from the Pipes piece wondering if I had, somehow, misread the results of the Deloitte poll. Or, I wondered, was it possible that Ms. Pipes was simply cherry-picking the data to continue her ever-escalating tirade against the Affordable Care Act?  Such a move would hardly come as a shock given the Pacific Research Institutes history of questionable studies such as those presented in their failed effort to get rid of Californias clean air regulations or the Institutes early efforts to fabricate research in support of the tobacco companies (although the highly suspect relationship with Phillip Morris began prior to Ms. Pipes arrival at the Institute.)

I also could not help but notice that Pipes never actually linked to the report she had chosen to write about so that readers could review the findings on their own  often a sure sign that the author might be a little uncomfortable with all the data included in such a study.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that Ms. Pipes did not accurately represent the findings she chose to include in her piece. I am, however, saying that her report stops well short of conveying all of the findings in the surveyfindings that cast the studys results in a much different light.


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## uscitizen (Sep 22, 2012)

the end of insurance companies, the way weve run the business in the past, is here.

Umm the way they have run the business not the end of the company.


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## Greenbeard (Sep 22, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> At a February conference in Las Vegas, *Aetna president Mark Bertolini *told a crowd of thousands that  *the end of insurance companies, the way weve run the business in the past, is here.*



Bertolini didn't suggest insurance companies are going _out_ of business, he said the business model they've been operating under (built around medical underwriting, which will no longer be allowed) will have to change. That's correct. Changing the way health insurers do business was one of the points of passing the Affordable Care Act.

Bertolini sees new (and, I think, more productive) roles for health insurers in the future:



> So what will the health insurers look like in the future? Bertolini offered a strong endorsement of the accountable health organization model, positioning health insurers as uniquely suited to usher in an era of coordinated care. We need to move the system from underwriting risk to managing populations, he said. We want to have a different relationship with the providers, physicians and the hospitals we do business with.
> 
> Technology is crucial to redefining this relationship, he said, noting that Aetna recently purchased health information exchange Medicity. Part of rationale behind the deal, he said was Medicitys software development kit for mobile app creation. Bertolini said Aetna will give away the SDK to the public domain for free, hoping to spur a marketplace for healthcare-centric mobile apps.
> 
> ...


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > *health insurance companies going out of business .. DUE TO OBAMACARE!!! *
> ...



Yes.  Making huge profits off of the suffering of fellow human beings is immoral.  11 billion is less that the combined income of the top health care insurance companies executives.

If you have been foolish enough to be employed in an unneccesary service then you need to make better choices.  Health insurance companies are like ticket scalpers.  They do nothing to add value to the customer.


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## Amazed (Sep 22, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> > At a February conference in Las Vegas, *Aetna president Mark Bertolini *told a crowd of thousands that  *the end of insurance companies, the way weve run the business in the past, is here.*
> ...



Aetna just bought Coventry...what we are seeing is the planned contraction of the market place...

I've been saying this since 2010...the Mndate wasa red herring...they couldn't care less about it...the fact that it survived urprised them as mush as it did us.

The thrust has ALWAYS been a single payor system and the ACA is the instrument being used to further that aim.


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

everyone is missing the point.  

If the hospitals and doctors weren't ripping off the insurance companies with every maxed out bill. (20$ for a tylanol? / what is the cut off before an insurance company questions the bill?)

If the insurance companies weren't dry fucking us in the ass with skyrocketing premium costs.  Although it could be argued that medical fraud by doctors and insurance companies is part of the reason for higher and higher premiums.

Than there would have been no need for the ACA.  It is the greed on the part of Hospitals and insurance companies that has brought us to this point.  Now that the government has stepped in to lessen their greed, they are whinning and threatening to take it out on the public.  I say Fuck them.


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## Greenbeard (Sep 22, 2012)

Amazed said:


> Aetna just bought Coventry...what we are seeing is the planned contraction of the market place...
> 
> I've been saying this since 2010...the Mndate wasa red herring...they couldn't care less about it...the fact that it survived urprised them as mush as it did us.
> 
> The thrust has ALWAYS been a single payor system and the ACA is the instrument being used to further that aim.



And that single payer is going to be Aetna?


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

The last thing to remember is this.  Those that don't have Insurance and can't afford it don't really give a shit who else looses it, because no one cares that the uninsured are uninsured.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 22, 2012)

Doctors are closing up too.   This is what dictatorship is like.  The government takes over an industry and drives out all competition.   That was the goal all along.   It shouldn't be surprising.


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## Amazed (Sep 22, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> Amazed said:
> 
> 
> > Aetna just bought Coventry...what we are seeing is the planned contraction of the market place...
> ...



Not neccessarily, what I am seeing is a consolidation of the largest corps....Aetna, Blue Cross, and United to name a few...it may become  regional administrative thing meaning the largest 4 or whatever the regional divisions might be.

The only upside is the use of these companies administratively will help keep the new buracracies to a minimum.


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## Amazed (Sep 22, 2012)

The thing is that unles the ACA is in fact repealed, we will end up where the Left wants us...in a single payor system.


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## onecut39 (Sep 22, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> At say average of $50,000 a year times 400,000 employees @ 7.65% SS/Medicare paid by employees: $1.53 billion; matched by employer $1.53 billion.
> Nearly $3 billion in SS/Medicare payments.. gone!
> Then we have the change from $20 billion a year going into the economy/ paying taxes to at $300/week 99 weeks: $11.8 billion unemployment checks!
> 
> ...



Obama care will deliver several million young healthy  kids to the insurance companies.  It is a windfall for them.  Many of these kids are now being kept on their parents  insurance  until age 26. When Obamacare is in full effect all young people will be required to have insurance.

There is nothing in Obamacare that will drive insurance companies out of business.  Quite the opposite, it is a gift.


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## WillowTree (Sep 22, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> Experts were trying to tell Obamacare idiots IT wouldn't work!
> 
> Tried to point out that the fundamental premise of 50 million "uninsured" was a lie.. with 10 million NOT citizens, 14 million already covered by Medicaid and
> 18 million under age 34, make over $50k that PAY their health services WITHOUT insurance cheaper.. that real number is 8 million!
> ...







*That was the plan stan.*


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## Amazed (Sep 22, 2012)

I might add that Agent and Broker appointments ar also being cancelled.


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## WillowTree (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Another lying NaziCon thread.
> 
> The only real solution is *Single-Payer*.



One rich person can't pay for all that you ask for leech.


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

spectrumc01 said:


> everyone is missing the point.
> 
> If the hospitals and doctors weren't ripping off the insurance companies with every maxed out bill. (20$ for a tylanol? / what is the cut off before an insurance company questions the bill?)
> 
> ...



YOU total ignored the $600 billion in defensive medicine practiced out of fear of lawsuits!
GREED at insurance companies? 

What is the NET profits for most health insurance companies???

CLUE  they are 22 on a list of the 50 industries net profits at an average of 4%

Top industries: Most profitable  2008 Profits as % of Revenues
1     Network and Other Communications Equipment     20.4%  Why aren't you so angry at this industry??? 20%!!!
2     Internet Services and Retailing                                19.4
3     Pharmaceuticals                                                      19.3
4     Medical Products and Equipment                            16.3
5     Railroads                                                                  12.6
6     Financial Data Services                                            11.7
7     Mining, Crude-Oil production                                    11.5
8     Securities                                                                  10.7
9     Oil and Gas Equipment, Services                             10.2
10     Scientific, Photographic, and Control Equipment     9.9
11     Household and Personal Products                           8.7
12     Utilities: Gas and Electric                                         8.7
13     Aerospace and Defense                                          7.6
14     Food Services                                                          7.1
15     Industrial Machinery                                                6.9
16     Food Consumer Products                                       6.7
17     Electronics, Electrical Equipment                            6.5
18     Commercial Banks                                                  5.2
19     Telecommunications                                               5.1
20     Chemicals                                                               5.0
21     Construction and Farm Machinery                         5.0
*22     Insurance: Life, Health (stock)                           4.6%*
23     Information Technology Services                           4.5
24     Computers, Office Equipment                                4.3
25     Metals                                                                     3.9

So why not attack lawyers $100 billion that DRIVES the $600 billion in defensive medicine!

NOT one response!
Why are you people protecting lawyers that are driving so much abuse of the legal system it is being felt ALL OVER!

http://facesoflawsuitabuse.org/facts/


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > everyone is missing the point.
> ...



Protecting lawyers?  Here is the problem with medical lawsuits, and it starts with the doctor.  The Hospital hires the doctor at some astronomical salary, because the doctor says he is worth it (thinks he's god or should at least be paid like one).  The insurance company knows how much he makes so they set their premiums accordingly.  The suing lawyer who has caught the doctor in a mistake that cost life and/or limb also knows how much the doctor makes, and sets the lawsuit accordingly.
No one else gets sued like this in any other profession, why? No one makes the kind of obscene money a hospital makes.
If there were tort reform, costs still would not come down.  My proof...have any of your bills ever gone down by themselves? no.
If a doctor wants to be treated like a normal person perhaps he should be paid like a normal person.


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Doctors are closing up too.   *This is what dictatorship is like*.  The government takes over an industry and drives out all competition.   That was the goal all along.   It shouldn't be surprising.



No.  This is what a free market is like.  If your bloated salaries and no added value to a product can't compete..then you perish.


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## WillowTree (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Doctors are closing up too.   *This is what dictatorship is like*.  The government takes over an industry and drives out all competition.   That was the goal all along.   It shouldn't be surprising.
> ...



Nothing "free" about this market, shitforbrains, this is now strictly "gubbmint" market, the gubbmint calls the shot and the IRS is the policman.


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## Amazed (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Doctors are closing up too.   *This is what dictatorship is like*.  The government takes over an industry and drives out all competition.   That was the goal all along.   It shouldn't be surprising.
> ...



Stupidity on display.


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



I don't want useless overpaid banksters coming between me and my physician.  Somebody stopped filling the piggies feed trough?  Oh my!  Looks like they will have to find another tit to suck on.


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## WillowTree (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



so now yer straight, it's a "gubbmint" run enterprise. Thanks for playing.


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## AmericanFirst (Sep 22, 2012)

kidrocks said:


> Good... it's called, tough love. In business, only the strong survive according to supply and demand. Let the market dictate.


Let the free market decide...get rid of the stupid socialist bill obamaturdcare.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



What you want is not a useless banker, but a 20 year old bureaucrat whose last government job was at the post office.


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## AmericanFirst (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Now you just have the gov't. coming between you and your sugar tit.


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

What we have is the government shutting down avenues of excessive greed, and the medical community who has been raping the general public for decades doesn't like it.  A doctor isn't going to give up his 100k salary or better to come work in a machine shop with me for 35k.  Not happening, they will adapt and they will still be doctors, the insurance companies will adapt as well.  We will still get taken advantage of but hopefully not as bad.  What is going on now is the temper tantrum by the medical community trying to scare everyone, just like your four year old holding their breath.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 22, 2012)

We should have government oversight of medical care because the TSA has worked out so well.


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

Consequences.  Everyone has them.

The ACA is the consequence for decades of greed and graft.


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



The VA..Medicare are the most efficient medical care outlets in the country.  Ask any of your senators or congressmen or congresswomen about government managed health care.   It can't be THAT bad.  THEY all use it.


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## Full-Auto (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



Why dont you post the comparative health plans.

The ones for congress then the ones for you and I.

The confusion should be easy to clear up.......


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

The fattest piglets squeel the loudest when they are pulled off the tit.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> The fattest piglets squeel the loudest when they are pulled off the tit.



Good idea, let's end welfare and see who squeals.


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## CrazedScotsman (Sep 22, 2012)

We all know ObamaCare is a power grab. It's not about helping people, it's about power and control, that's it. We all know it and what's more disturbing, so many people don't care. They want to be told how to live their lives. It's freaking mind boggling that their are people who want this.


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The fattest piglets squeel the loudest when they are pulled off the tit.
> ...



I love it, lets end corprate welfare and see who squeals the loudest.  Than the corprate welfare people buy more politicians and get right back on the tit.


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

A) Medicare does NOT pay or administer ONE single claim!
B) Insurance companies pay bills presented to them.
C) Doctors agree: $600 billion a year unnecessary because they order duplicate tests, refer to specialists.  All from fear of being sued!
    WHY are Lawyers sacred? They make $100 billion most from lawsuits!
D) Hospitals pad and pass "uncompensated " services.. 

ALL of which add nearly $1 trillion unnecessary to health care!

But you idiots who have NO idea think the evil insurance companies are the hogs here!
They just pay the bills and after FACTUALLY using 80% of premium to pay claims the remain 15% used for administration and 4% net profit!

But NONE of you idiots want FACTS you just throw up the same cliched stupid comments about insurance companies!

WHY are YOU not as angry then with Lawyers as you are with insurance companies?


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## healthmyths (Sep 22, 2012)

spectrumc01 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



Are you aware that employers actually pay MORE to SS/Medicare on behalf of employees?

Did you know that? More importantly..
YOU said "let's end corporate welfare"... OK!
Who is going to pay the payroll taxes that employers pay?

I don't think you understand that do you?

See your employer in deducting payments to SS/Medicare on your behalf.. PAYS actually MORE today on your behalf then you do!


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## uscitizen (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



Yep kinda like putting the tax preparers out of jobs if we passed a pure flat personal income tax.
A parasitic industry nothing more nothing less.


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## Greenbeard (Sep 22, 2012)

Full-Auto said:


> Why dont you post the comparative health plans.
> 
> The ones for congress then the ones for you and I.
> 
> The confusion should be easy to clear up.......



Nationally, the three largest (by enrollment) Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan offerings are:


Blue Cross Blue Shield Standard Option PPO
Blue Cross Blue Shield Basic Option PPO (same link)
Government Employees Health Association (GEHA)

What's significant about the plan offerings federal employees get to choose from is not that they're "government" plans--they aren't. They're private insurance plans that compete against each other in a health insurance exchange operated by the federal Office of Personnel Management. It's a competitive, organized, and user-friendly market. That's why they like it and why many folks are envious of them.

Flash forward about 15 months from now and non-federal employees will have a competitive, organized, and user-friendly market (exchange) of their own to shop for plans in. It'll be designed and organized by their state, not the federal OPM, but it'll be a rather similar experience to what federal employees enjoy.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 22, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



HUGGY, you must always keep in mind who and what you are arguing with...


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > The fattest piglets squeel the loudest when they are pulled off the tit.
> ...



The "fatest" piglets?  That would be CORPORATE welfare.  BP(multinational oil companies), Wallstreet, etc... The health care insurance scam operators...


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## Katzndogz (Sep 22, 2012)

That's right.  End corporate welfare.   Let some other country attract these corporations.   After all, these corporations pay employees.  Oh, excuse me, exploit workers.   Corporations that aren't here, won't pay taxes, and won't support the welfare state so the entitled class can look to one another to fulfill their entitlement fantasies.


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> That's right.  End corporate welfare.   Let some other country attract these corporations.   After all, these corporations pay employees.  Oh, excuse me, exploit workers.   Corporations that aren't here, won't pay taxes, and won't support the welfare state so the entitled class can look to one another to fulfill their entitlement fantasies.



How well does "too big to fail" work for us? Yes I say.  Whittle corporate welfare down and break up the monopolies until we have true market forces at play again.


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> That's right.  End corporate welfare.   Let some other country attract these corporations.   After all, these corporations pay employees.  Oh, excuse me, exploit workers.   Corporations that aren't here, won't pay taxes, and won't support the welfare state so the entitled class can look to one another to fulfill their entitlement fantasies.



let some other country attract these corporations? Let em.  It is my understanding that the rest of the world (being socialist) would not attract these corporations, as my conservative friends like to point out.   We don't want to be like European socialists.


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## Moonglow (Sep 22, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



You are aware that when a company files taxes it can write off SS paid on wages against their gross income?


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## Political Junky (Sep 22, 2012)

Health Insurance CEO Compensation

The nation&#8217;s larger health insurance companies, based on earnings, have also kept their CEOs well paid. Some companies have followed the MLR regulations a slight amount, though most evidence shows significant raises being issued among executives. The following is a list of the top salaries among health insurance CEOs in 2011:

Cigna Corp., David Cordani: $19.1 million(total 2011 revenue: $22 billion)
UnitedHealth Group Inc., Stephen Hemsley: $13.4 million(total 2011 revenue: $101.9 billion)
Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $13.3 million(total 2011 revenue: $60.7 billion)
Health Care Service Corp., Patricia Hemingway Hall: $12.9 million(total 2011 revenue: $49 billion)
Aetna Inc., Mark Bertolini: $10.6 million(total 2011 revenue: $33.8 billion)
Humana Inc., Michael McCallister: $7.3 million (total 2011 revenue: $36.8 billion)


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## Bfgrn (Sep 22, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Health Insurance CEO Compensation
> 
> The nations larger health insurance companies, based on earnings, have also kept their CEOs well paid. Some companies have followed the MLR regulations a slight amount, though most evidence shows significant raises being issued among executives. The following is a list of the top salaries among health insurance CEOs in 2011:
> 
> ...



Yea, but they're going out of business...they are destitute, don't you know?


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## HUGGY (Sep 22, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Health Insurance CEO Compensation
> 
> The nations larger health insurance companies, based on earnings, have also kept their CEOs well paid. Some companies have followed the MLR regulations a slight amount, though most evidence shows significant raises being issued among executives. The following is a list of the top salaries among health insurance CEOs in 2011:
> 
> ...



AND THAT is just the CEOs of the biggest HMOs.  A mountain of cash wasted on useless middlemen.  I wonder how many Americans died needlessly to over pay these vultures?  How many cancers left to kill?  How many transplants or other life saving operations denied so these people that add nothing to health care could have a third or fourth home or a big yaght or a jet airplane?


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## spectrumc01 (Sep 22, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> Health Insurance CEO Compensation
> 
> The nations larger health insurance companies, based on earnings, have also kept their CEOs well paid. Some companies have followed the MLR regulations a slight amount, though most evidence shows significant raises being issued among executives. The following is a list of the top salaries among health insurance CEOs in 2011:
> 
> ...



It ranks right up there with the CEO pay of non profits like the Red Cross and the United Way.


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## auditor0007 (Sep 24, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> Experts were trying to tell Obamacare idiots IT wouldn't work!
> 
> Tried to point out that the fundamental premise of 50 million "uninsured" was a lie.. with 10 million NOT citizens, 14 million already covered by Medicaid and
> 18 million under age 34, make over $50k that PAY their health services WITHOUT insurance cheaper.. that real number is 8 million!
> ...



So according to your own numbers, Aetna was the only insurer who did not pay at least 80% of revenue for medical claims.  The law had no effect at all on any of the other insurers because they already met the requirement, but because Aetna did not meet the requirement, they are bitching.  Funny how that works, don't you think?  

There is so much money tied up in insurance that these companies will do just fine.  If there are a few who can't run their businesses effectively, then their demise will be picked up by the companies that can get the job done.


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## tomfrankjon (Oct 16, 2012)

This medical insurance factor has been a hot topic in the Obama sector for so long, and it would be keenly seen as what it turns out in the next few months, with the election in sight. But i don't see a decline of the insurance sector, as how much it has shaped up through the decades.


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## HUGGY (Oct 16, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > *health insurance companies going out of business .. DUE TO OBAMACARE!!! *
> ...



Oh? ...where to start?...  

How about the top?

Yes.  Those jobs are a waste of health care dollars.  There are lot's of jobs in the "insurance business".  Let em apply at State Farm and Geico.   

Yes.  Being a frequent owner of small businesses (I invent and prototype tools then liscense the inventions for manufacture and sale) I know the value that universal health care offers business.  It creates a level playing field and more stability making it more possible to create new jobs.  Universal "taxes" don't affect job growth as the taxes are assessed after profits are made and wages paid.  

Bankruptsys happen.  Approximately three out of four startups fail for a variety of reasons.  That is the nature of capitalism and trying to find a niche in the market.

"Stupid"?  Maybe...but I don't start off by voting against mine nor the countries best interests.  

The only profits I see as "evil" are Bains profits off of the hard work and invested retirement accounts.  AND the contrived profits from gasoline sales by self restricted supply do to a conspiracy to not bring new refineries on line..  Oh ya...and the wasted money and "profits" taken out of the health care system by people that do not provide any benefit to our citizens.

The rest of your babbling rant will go unaddressed.


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## healthmyths (Oct 30, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


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## Luddly Neddite (Oct 30, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Another lying NaziCon thread.
> ...



... but, the pub SOCIALIST system doesn't need "one rich person". That's what all us peon tax payers are for.

Our job is to pay for you rw LEECHES who refuse to buy health care insurance and pay your own way.


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## Luddly Neddite (Oct 30, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Doctors are closing up too.   This is what dictatorship is like.  The government takes over an industry and drives out all competition.   That was the goal all along.   It shouldn't be surprising.



For the first time in their careers, they don't have to chase down dead beat rw's who refuse to buy their own health care insurance so they're quitting?

You need to find a new lie because even the most ignorant knows that this a mind numbingly stooopid thing to say.

ACA increases competition. THINK.

80 cents out of every dollar MUST be spent on patient care. THINK.

The OP is incorrect. Insurance companies are not going out of business although they have no choice but to actually SERVE their clients. THINK.

All the O'Reilly bull shit about going to jail if you don't have health insurance is patently untrue. THINK. 

Oh never mind. You've never used your brain before and really, I have no right to expect you to suddenly start now.

You don't want facts. You just want reason to hate the black guy. And, you are a fool.

===

BTW, anyone else had their scrips get a LOT less expensive?


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## Politico (Oct 30, 2012)

Damn that Obamacare making them go out of business. When 2014 comes around and it actually kicks in it will be a disaster!


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## Luddly Neddite (Oct 30, 2012)

Politico said:


> Damn that Obamacare making them go out of business. When 2014 comes around and it actually kicks in it will be a disaster!



Sarcasm?

Or, ignorant rw?


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## dblack (Oct 30, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> For the first time in their careers, they don't have to chase down dead beat rw's who refuse to buy their own health care insurance so they're quitting?
> 
> You need to find a new lie because even the most ignorant knows that this a mind numbingly stooopid thing to say.
> 
> ...



You seem a little confused about this 'facts' business. Nothing you claim in your post is fact. It's all opinion, your predictions of what will happen as the law takes effect. Other people, more reasonable people in my view, disagree. They predict this bill will create results opposite to what you imagine. Health care consumers will be more powerless than ever, having lost the freedom to even say "no" to the very same insurance companies that drove us into this dead end in the first place.


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## GHook93 (Oct 30, 2012)

I said it from the beginning. They learned from hilliarycare, UHC is impossible to get passed, so they created Obaminationcare to bankrupt the industry and slowly but surly move everyone to the government roles!


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## LogikAndReazon (Oct 31, 2012)

The National Healthcare Network for Comrades, a bureaucratically run monopoly that seeks fairness and justice for all is the only utopian solution........

Civil Servant Socialists to the rescue !!!!!!!!


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## Uncensored2008 (Oct 31, 2012)

The goal of Obama's fascist care is to create a government managed monopoly. Why do you think Blue Cross and Kaiser poured millions into promoting Obamacare? Because with it in place, the government will force all of their competitors out of business.


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