# Why we need guns?  Oregon democrat party Governor released violent gun offender serving life in prison for murdering girl.



## 2aguy (Apr 29, 2022)

One of the reasons we need guns in America?  The democrat party just simply refuses to keep violent, dangerous criminals in prison.......why do they continue to work to release the most violent monsters back to kill more people?

*Oregon’s left-wing Sen. Ron Wyden called Gov. Kate Brown’s release of convicted murderer Kyle Hedquist “grossly irresponsible.”*
*

Wyden said Brown’s decision to show mercy to Kyle Hedquist, now 45, “is wrong on every level, starting with its callousness toward the crime victim’s family and extending to all Oregonians counting on public officials to make decisions with public safety in mind.”
---
Brown released Hedquist without bothering to inform the family of Nikki Thrasher, a 19-year-old who may or may not have known that Hedquist committed several burglaries. Hedquist lured Thrasher into the woods and shot her in the back of the head to keep her quiet.

Hedquist was convicted of murder in 1995 and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. But Brown released Thrasher’s executioner because he was such a good boy while in prison.

Holly Thrasher, Nikki’s still-grieving mother, wasn’t informed of her daughter’s murderer’s release until a TV station called her for comment.
*
*“He took the life of my daughter in cold blood. It was a cold-blooded murder. He planned it,” Thrasher said.*









						Oregon Governor Grants Clemency to Man Who Executed Teen Girl in 1994
					

Oregon's left-wing Senator Ron Wyden called Governor Kate Brown's release of convicted murderer Kyle Hedquist




					pjmedia.com
				




Can any of the anti-gun fanatics here on U.S.messageboard explain to us why you guys keep releasing the most dangerous gun criminals?

An explanation would be nice.....


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## pknopp (Apr 29, 2022)

There is no evidence he is still dangerous. Now that is a separate discussion of whether or not he should have been released. He should not have been.


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## Penelope (Apr 29, 2022)

By KIMBERLEE KRUESI, Associated Press
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee on Thursday granted clemency for the first time since taking office to 17 people, among them a man who was freed in 2019 after spending 12 years in prison for a killing he has long argued he didn't commit.
Lee exonerated Adam Braseel, who was charged in the 2006 bludgeoning of Malcolm Burrows despite no physical evidence tying him to the scene. He was sentenced to life in prison.
Braseel eventually left prison after entering an Alford plea to aggravated assault. The plea allowed him to maintain his innocence but left him with a felony on his record. Only the Tennessee governor has the power to change that.
“After reviewing the unique merits of each case, I have made the decision to grant these individuals executive clemency,” Lee said in a statement. “These men and women have shown they are ready for productive lives beyond their sentences, and I appreciate the Board of Parole’s consideration in this process.”


			https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/tennessee/articles/2021-12-02/tennessee-governor-grants-clemency-to-17
		


Were the jurors wrong.


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## Penelope (Apr 29, 2022)

Why is Oregon's Kate Brown so different, oh it's because she is a democrat.


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## Mac-7 (Apr 29, 2022)

pknopp said:


> There is no evidence he is still dangerous.


he killed once and he’s capable of killing again

he should have been executed 20 years ago

but the same leftwing that released him  also does not approve of capital punishment


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## pknopp (Apr 29, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> he killed once and he’s capable of killing again


 
 As is anyone.



Mac-7 said:


> he should have been executed 20 years ago
> 
> but the same leftwing that released him  also does not approve of capital punishment



 Which doesn't address anything I've said. Nothing here shows he is still violent.


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## Mac-7 (Apr 29, 2022)

pknopp said:


> As is anyone.


No

we are all innocent till proven guilty

and he is a proven murder

as usual libs care nothing about the victim 

But bleed all over the internet for the murderer


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## pknopp (Apr 29, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> No
> 
> we are all innocent till proven guilty
> 
> ...



 Blueberries.


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## Mac-7 (Apr 29, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Nothing here shows he is still violent.


He murdered someone

he does not deserve sympathy


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## pknopp (Apr 29, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> He murdered someone
> 
> he does not deserve sympathy



 I didn't say he did.


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## Mac-7 (Apr 29, 2022)

pknopp said:


> I didn't say he did.


In that case keep him in jail where he belongs


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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the reasons we need guns in America?  The democrat party just simply refuses to keep violent, dangerous criminals in prison.......why do they continue to work to release the most violent monsters back to kill more people?
> 
> *Oregon’s left-wing Sen. Ron Wyden called Gov. Kate Brown’s release of convicted murderer Kyle Hedquist “grossly irresponsible.”*
> 
> ...



Hedquist was sentenced at age 18 to a much harsher sentence than he would be today.  He's served 28 years and in that time:  _“Over the next 28 years, he worked to rehabilitate himself, and exemplifies the type of personal transformation we should all hope to see from people incarcerated in our criminal justice system,” she wrote in an email. “Granting clemency is an extraordinary act that the Governor generally reserves for individuals who have made incredible changes to rehabilitate themselves, take accountability for their crimes, and dedicate themselves to making their communities a better place.” (__SOURCE__)_

Now I'm not a fan of murder and I'm always amazed that ANY murder conviction doesn't get mandatory life but since they don't it requires us to treat people fairly and rationally.  If the goal is ETERNAL PUNISHMENT then so be it, get everyone to vote for the death penalty (won't pass).  Otherwise this is what happens...people actually work to better themselves in prison from time to time.  Should they be punished forever or should there be some benefit to being kept alive in prison?


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## 2aguy (Apr 29, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Why is Oregon's Kate Brown so different, oh it's because she is a democrat.



Because it isn't just releasing this violent criminal.......democrats like her are releasing violent criminals at all levels of the justice system......this is just one of the thousands they are releasing every day, after attacking the police to the point the police can't do their jobs...big difference....


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## pknopp (Apr 29, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> In that case keep him in jail where he belongs



 I said they should have. I was objecting to the words used by the OP.


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## TroglocratsRdumb (Apr 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the reasons we need guns in America?  The democrat party just simply refuses to keep violent, dangerous criminals in prison.......why do they continue to work to release the most violent monsters back to kill more people?
> 
> *Oregon’s left-wing Sen. Ron Wyden called Gov. Kate Brown’s release of convicted murderer Kyle Hedquist “grossly irresponsible.”*
> 
> ...


criminals are highly prized voters in the democrat party
brown is just trying to grow the democrat party voter base


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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Because it isn't just releasing this violent criminal.......democrats like her are releasing violent criminals at all levels of the justice system



Would it be possible for someone to find an actual breakdown of how many "democrats" release violent offenders vs "republicans"?  Because I doubt very highly there is a measurable difference between the two.

And WHO, exactly, is "releasing" them?  Governors?  That's rare.  In most cases the release is a complex function of a large number of systems including parole boards etc.

So where do you get this stupid "democrats releasing violent criminals" cannard.  I'm sure you can find a few cherry-picked examples but for it to actually be meaningful it would have to be a study across the board of a significant sample to see if your "hypothesis" is even remotely acquainted with reality.



2aguy said:


> ......this is just one of the thousands they are releasing every day, after attacking the police to the point the police can't do their jobs...big difference....



So someone is convicted at age 18 and NOT given the death penalty.  They work to improve themselves and get released.  Should we just have killed him at the start?  If there's no hope for reform then why do we even have prisons?  Should we just kill all the criminals?


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## 2aguy (Apr 29, 2022)

PV System said:


> Would it be possible for someone to find an actual breakdown of how many "democrats" release violent offenders vs "republicans"?  Because I doubt very highly there is a measurable difference between the two.
> 
> And WHO, exactly, is "releasing" them?  Governors?  That's rare.  In most cases the release is a complex function of a large number of systems including parole boards etc.
> 
> ...



Yeah….I gave you a long list of democrats and their policies that release violent criminals and you bitched about it…..in typical leftist behavior……call for links….you are given links….then you bitch about the links


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## 2aguy (Apr 29, 2022)

PV System said:


> Would it be possible for someone to find an actual breakdown of how many "democrats" release violent offenders vs "republicans"?  Because I doubt very highly there is a measurable difference between the two.
> 
> And WHO, exactly, is "releasing" them?  Governors?  That's rare.  In most cases the release is a complex function of a large number of systems including parole boards etc.
> 
> ...



No reform for murderers…..if we can’t execute them then they need to stay in prison for life…..their victim doesn’t get to come back to life after 40 years.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Apr 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No reform for murderers…..if we can’t execute them then they need to stay in prison for life…..their victim doesn’t get to come back to life after 40 years.



I'm actually not averse to that position.  But I also realize that not all murderers serve life sentences.  And since that has been the case regardless of any political party over the past century or so I assume that is what we do.

Once you accept that the question comes:  who deserves early release?  As I noted that's not just one politician.  That's an entire part of the prison system including parole boards.  Surely you don't think all parole boards are raving liberals everywhere.


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## AZrailwhale (May 11, 2022)

pknopp said:


> As is anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Which doesn't address anything I've said. Nothing here shows he is still violent.


It doesn't matter.  He committed murder;  his life is forfeit.  LWOP is a very poor second and this is one of many reasons why.


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## AZrailwhale (May 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Would it be possible for someone to find an actual breakdown of how many "democrats" release violent offenders vs "republicans"?  Because I doubt very highly there is a measurable difference between the two.
> 
> And WHO, exactly, is "releasing" them?  Governors?  That's rare.  In most cases the release is a complex function of a large number of systems including parole boards etc.
> 
> ...


You can't rehabilitate criminals.  Prisons work to punish people for their crimes. Minor crimes deserve minor punishment, major crimes like murder deserve major punishment.


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## AZrailwhale (May 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I'm actually not averse to that position.  But I also realize that not all murderers serve life sentences.  And since that has been the case regardless of any political party over the past century or so I assume that is what we do.
> 
> Once you accept that the question comes:  who deserves early release?  As I noted that's not just one politician.  That's an entire part of the prison system including parole boards.  Surely you don't think all parole boards are raving liberals everywhere.


What murderer doesn't deserve the death penalty?  I'd agree that some KILLERS don't deserve the death penalty, but all murderers do.


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## 2aguy (May 11, 2022)

pknopp said:


> As is anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Which doesn't address anything I've said. Nothing here shows he is still violent.




Wrong....90% of murderers have long histories of crime and violence....

He showed that unlike most people, he is actually is capable of murder.......he should have been executed.


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## pknopp (May 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wrong....90% of murderers have long histories of crime and violence....
> 
> He showed that unlike most people, he is actually is capable of murder.......he should have been executed.



 So many times people claim I am wrong about something but then "correct" me on something I never said. Not one did I say he hadn't been violent in the past but we will not your desire for violence.


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## Polishprince (May 30, 2022)

pknopp said:


> There is no evidence he is still dangerous. Now that is a separate discussion of whether or not he should have been released. He should not have been.




The criminal here is only 45 years old.

I'd say that men of that age can still be quite dangerous.

If someone is in their mid 80's or above, and has served 40 or 50 years, you might have a point.


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## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> The criminal here is only 45 years old.
> 
> I'd say that men of that age can still be quite dangerous.
> 
> If someone is in their mid 80's or above, and has served 40 or 50 years, you might have a point.




80s is the knew 70s......more than enough juice left in the tank for murder...

​
*Italian man, 80, stabbed wife to death after she decided not to have sex with him *
*Natalia Kyrychok, 61, refused to have sex with Vito Cangini after he took Viagra*
*The incident happened in Fanano di Gradara, Italy, on the night of December 25*










						80-year-old Italian husband 'killed wife when she refused to have sex'
					

Vito Cangini, 80, was accused of killing his wife Natalia Kyrychok, 61, because she refused to have sex with him after he took a Viagra pill while at home (pictured) in the Marche, eastern Italy.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




And....

*AUBURN, Maine — A man who served decades in prison for stabbing his wife 14 times in front of her daughter was convicted Wednesday in a nearly identical crime — stabbing a woman at least 11 times while her twin children watched.*

*Albert Flick, 77, whom a judge previously deemed too old to be a threat, was convicted in the 2018 death of Kimberly Dobbie. Jurors deliberated less than an hour before reaching the guilty verdict.*









						Man, released from prison after being deemed too old to be a threat, convicted in another killing
					

The 77-year-old man served decades in prison for stabbing his wife and is now being convicted of an almost identical crime.



					www.usatoday.com


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## Failzero (May 30, 2022)

pknopp said:


> I didn't say he did.


Unless he a Minority or LGBTQPN or an Illegal ?


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## pknopp (May 30, 2022)

Failzero said:


> Unless he a Minority or LGBTQPN or an Illegal ?



 Believe whatever you wish.


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## Captain Caveman (May 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the reasons we need guns in America?  The democrat party just simply refuses to keep violent, dangerous criminals in prison.......why do they continue to work to release the most violent monsters back to kill more people?
> 
> *Oregon’s left-wing Sen. Ron Wyden called Gov. Kate Brown’s release of convicted murderer Kyle Hedquist “grossly irresponsible.”*
> 
> ...


Where did the Right to Bear arms come from in America? I know, but do you.


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## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Where did the Right to Bear arms come from in America? I know, but do you.




Yep...British tradition....


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## Captain Caveman (May 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep...British tradition....


Yup, the Bill of Rights brought over by the Pilgrims and you have the stupidity to cry about the British. Idiot much


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## pknopp (May 30, 2022)

According to the Founders they were endowed by the creator.


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## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Yup, the Bill of Rights brought over by the Pilgrims and you have the stupidity to cry about the British. Idiot much




I wouldn't even concern myself with a 3rd rate power like Britain, but the left wing, anti-gun fascists here use you idiots as a reason to ban and confiscate guns...


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## Captain Caveman (May 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I wouldn't even concern myself with a 3rd rate power like Britain, but the left wing, anti-gun fascists here use you idiots as a reason to* ban and confiscate guns*...


You are still brain dead with the gun topic.

The British put the retards on the Mayflower, check your family tree, looks like you're directly descended from them.

The anti gun fascists you speak of are the sensible ones who don't want their kids and relatives murdered by the pro gun fruit loops.


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## Failzero (May 30, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You are still brain dead with the gun topic.
> 
> The British put the retards on the Mayflower, check your family tree, looks like you're directly descended from them.


The Retards are the Swarthy Uncut Heathens from Turd world and the homegrown Dazzling Urbanite Knuckleheads


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> pjmedia


Unreliable source.

This fails as both a confirmation bias fallacy and a hasty generalization fallacy.

Moreover, no one opposes citizens possessing firearms for lawful self-defense, the idea that anyone does is a lie.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (May 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I wouldn't even concern myself with a 3rd rate power like Britain, but the left wing, anti-gun fascists here use you idiots as a reason to ban and confiscate guns...


Another lie.

No one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns – no one is ‘anti-gun,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.

And fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum, the sole purview of conservatives.


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## Hollie (May 30, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Another lie.
> 
> No one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns – no one is ‘anti-gun,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.
> 
> And fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum, the sole purview of conservatives.



No one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns? That's odd. This would appear to fail as both a confirmation bias fallacy and a hasty, ''I never looked for the facts'' generalization fallacy. Biden is advocating an ''assault weapons'' ban. I'm guessing neither you nor Biden can even define an ''assault weapon''.

That's strange because banning what you can't define would seem to be a problem.




			Biden points to assault weapons ban as a 'rational' option for gun control
		




And then there's this:









						Biden calls 9mm ‘high-caliber weapons,’ suggests banning them
					

President Biden spoke to reporters about his thoughts on 9mm handguns, calling them "high-caliber" and claiming that the Constitution is not "absolute."




					www.foxnews.com


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## Hollie (May 30, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Another lie.
> 
> No one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns – no one is ‘anti-gun,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.
> 
> And fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum, the sole purview of conservatives.



But,... but.... but.... but....

This is what happens when democrats get a roll and their inner fascist is unleashed.

But remember, democrats aren't looking to ban guns.










						Biden calls 9mm ‘high-caliber weapons,’ suggests banning them
					

President Biden spoke to reporters about his thoughts on 9mm handguns, calling them "high-caliber" and claiming that the Constitution is not "absolute."




					www.foxnews.com
				




President Biden on Monday took aim at 9mm handguns, appearing to suggest that the "high-caliber weapons" ought to be banned.


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## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Another lie.
> 
> No one advocates for ‘banning’ or ‘confiscating’ guns – no one is ‘anti-gun,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.
> 
> And fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum, the sole purview of conservatives.



Except the entire leadership of the democrat party....


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## Dragonlady (Jun 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the reasons we need guns in America?  The democrat party just simply refuses to keep violent, dangerous criminals in prison.......why do they continue to work to release the most violent monsters back to kill more people?
> 
> *Oregon’s left-wing Sen. Ron Wyden called Gov. Kate Brown’s release of convicted murderer Kyle Hedquist “grossly irresponsible.”*
> 
> ...



People who favour sane and sensible gun laws are not "anti-gun fanatics".  They're not "fanatics" at all.  They're smart people who know that in jursidictions where handgun ownership is restricted, crime rates, and in particular, gun crime rates, are MUCH, MUCH lower.


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> People who favour sane and sensible gun laws are not "anti-gun fanatics".  They're not "fanatics" at all.  They're smart people who know that in jursidictions where handgun ownership is restricted, crime rates, and in particular, gun crime rates, are MUCH, MUCH lower.




Yes...they are.....the "sensible" gun laws they want aren't sensible.....they take guns away from people who don't use them for crime, and do nothing to stop actual criminals or mass public shooters......

You lie so smoothly........nothing you posted about crime rates is true.....the democrat party controlled cities with the strictest gun control laws have the highest gun murder rates.............


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## Dragonlady (Jun 24, 2022)

Hollie said:


> But,... but.... but.... but....
> 
> This is what happens when democrats get a roll and their inner fascist is unleashed.
> 
> ...



So you think that individuals have the right to own nuclear weapons?????  At what point is a weapon too dangerous for general public sale.

When the police are afraid to take on mass shooters because they have deadlier weapons than the police, it's time to take those weapons off the market.

Banning the sale of certain types of weapons, is not "banning guns".


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> So you think that individuals have the right to own nuclear weapons?????  At what point is a weapon too dangerous for general public sale.
> 
> When the police are afraid to take on mass shooters because they have deadlier weapons than the police, it's time to take those weapons off the market.
> 
> Banning the sale of certain types of weapons, is not "banning guns".




No.

We have a Right to own and carry ....

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. 

We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001), 

*the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.*


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> So you think that individuals have the right to own nuclear weapons?????  At what point is a weapon too dangerous for general public sale.
> 
> When the police are afraid to take on mass shooters because they have deadlier weapons than the police, it's time to take those weapons off the market.
> 
> Banning the sale of certain types of weapons, is not "banning guns".




The police were not afraid to take on the mass public shooter....as the Border Patrol agent who actually entered the room demonstrates......

They were not outgunned...they outgunned the shooter by about 20 rifles, body armor and ballistic shields...you dumb ass...

They were ordered by an agent of your god, government, a democrat party supporter, to not enter the classroom....

And because they followed those orders, they will lives of shame until they die....

A woman in West Virginia, armed with her concealed carry pistol stopped a mass public shooter, armed with an AR-15 rifle, the exact same week....

She didn't have help....she didn't have a rifle.....she didn't have body armor....she didn't have a ballistic shield...

She just had her handgun...and she stopped the shooter...

West Virginia mass shooting stopped...

People like this West Virginia woman who stopped what could have become a mass shooting just a day after Uvalde.

*Police said a woman who was lawfully carrying a pistol shot and killed a man who began shooting at a crowd of people Wednesday night in Charleston.
Dennis Butler was killed after allegedly shooting at dozens of people attending a graduation party Wednesday near the Vista View Apartment complex. No injuries were reported from those at the party.
Investigators said Butler was warned about speeding in the area with children present before he left. He later returned with an AR-15-style firearm and began firing into the crowd before he was shot and killed.
“Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night,” Charleston Police Department Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett said.
Officers did not go into detail, but said Butler did have an extensive criminal history.*

West Virginia armed citizen stops potential mass shooting
=======

Banning weapons just "cause," doesn't stop mass public shooters.............you use the dead children to push your agenda, having been shown over and over again that nothing that you demand would have done anything to stop the shooter, and you fight against everything that would have stopped the shooter.....

You are an irrational and irresponsible human being.


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## Dragonlady (Jun 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yes...they are.....the "sensible" gun laws they want aren't sensible.....they take guns away from people who don't use them for crime, and do nothing to stop actual criminals or mass public shooters......
> 
> You lie so smoothly........nothing you posted about crime rates is true.....the democrat party controlled cities with the strictest gun control laws have the highest gun murder rates.............



Bullshit.  You're passing laws to allow anyone to carry at any time.  That's insanity and it's why you have the highest murder rate in the first world.

If guns kept you safe, the USA would be the safest country in the world, instead of one where people fear to go to the mall or send their kids to school.  When you churches need armed guards to keep people "safe" from mass shooters, your gun laws are a total and complete failure.


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## Dragonlady (Jun 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No.
> 
> We have a Right to own and carry ....
> 
> ...



The Trump Court was bought and paid for with dark money, to destroy the country.  Keep clinging to your guns.  It's all you have left.


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Bullshit.  You're passing laws to allow anyone to carry at any time.  That's insanity and it's why you have the highest murder rate in the first world.
> 
> If guns kept you safe, the USA would be the safest country in the world, instead of one where people fear to go to the mall or send their kids to school.  When you churches need armed guards to keep people "safe" from mass shooters, your gun laws are a total and complete failure.




No....we have high gun murder rates because of the democrat party.

How do I know you are wrong and I am right?

27 years of history....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
*

This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

*What changed in 2015?

The democrat party did 3 things...*
*
1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes
*
*3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.*


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## Failzero (Jun 24, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> People who favour sane and sensible gun laws are not "anti-gun fanatics".  They're not "fanatics" at all.  They're smart people who know that in jursidictions where handgun ownership is restricted, crime rates, and in particular, gun crime rates, are MUCH, MUCH lower.


Like Chicago , Los Angeles , Sacramento , Camden , Newark , Flushing / Queens , Baltimore , ...


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Bullshit.  You're passing laws to allow anyone to carry at any time.  That's insanity and it's why you have the highest murder rate in the first world.
> 
> If guns kept you safe, the USA would be the safest country in the world, instead of one where people fear to go to the mall or send their kids to school.  When you churches need armed guards to keep people "safe" from mass shooters, your gun laws are a total and complete failure.




Last time I checked....our government didn't murder 15 million innocent men, women and children in a period of 6 years...........the governments of Europe, where they banned and confiscated guns did that....

We average around 10,000 gun murders a year...most of the victims of that gun murder are criminals...not innocent people....then, of the rest, who are innocent victims...the majority are the friends and family of the criminals hit by mistake...

So...from 1939 to 2022 that would equal....83 years.....

83 years X 10,000 = 830,000 majority criminals murdered....

Over a period of 83 years......

In 1939, the German socialists began the murder of 15 million people...which didn't end until 1945....*.after they followed your advice and banned and confiscated guns from normal people...*

6 years.....

so....if you can do the math....can you tell which countries actually murdered more innocent people ?

83 years, 830,000

6 years. 15 million

So.....I'll keep our guns....cause your god, government, slaughters more people in less time than all of our gun murderers do over 83 years......

Can you dig that?


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> The Trump Court was bought and paid for with dark money, to destroy the country.  Keep clinging to your guns.  It's all you have left.




Now you are just trying to be funny....


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## miketx (Dec 15, 2022)

Penelope said:


> By KIMBERLEE KRUESI, Associated Press
> NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee on Thursday granted clemency for the first time since taking office to 17 people, among them a man who was freed in 2019 after spending 12 years in prison for a killing he has long argued he didn't commit.
> Lee exonerated Adam Braseel, who was charged in the 2006 bludgeoning of Malcolm Burrows despite no physical evidence tying him to the scene. He was sentenced to life in prison.
> Braseel eventually left prison after entering an Alford plea to aggravated assault. The plea allowed him to maintain his innocence but left him with a felony on his record. Only the Tennessee governor has the power to change that.
> ...


If there is any justice the next person he kills will be a democrat.


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## Moonglow (Dec 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the reasons we need guns in America?  The democrat party just simply refuses to keep violent, dangerous criminals in prison.......why do they continue to work to release the most violent monsters back to kill more people?
> 
> *Oregon’s left-wing Sen. Ron Wyden called Gov. Kate Brown’s release of convicted murderer Kyle Hedquist “grossly irresponsible.”*
> *
> ...


I highly doubt anyone on USMB is a top level admin in the government of the state of Oregon.


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## Papageorgio (Dec 15, 2022)

Penelope said:


> By KIMBERLEE KRUESI, Associated Press
> NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee on Thursday granted clemency for the first time since taking office to 17 people, among them a man who was freed in 2019 after spending 12 years in prison for a killing he has long argued he didn't commit.
> Lee exonerated Adam Braseel, who was charged in the 2006 bludgeoning of Malcolm Burrows despite no physical evidence tying him to the scene. He was sentenced to life in prison.
> Braseel eventually left prison after entering an Alford plea to aggravated assault. The plea allowed him to maintain his innocence but left him with a felony on his record. Only the Tennessee governor has the power to change that.
> ...


This case there was circumstantial evidence not hard evidence, I could see commuting this sentence. The. Oregon case is that he did murder but he has been a good boy in prison, the two cases are not in anyway shape or form alike.


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## Failzero (Dec 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Last time I checked....our government didn't murder 15 million innocent men, women and children in a period of 6 years...........the governments of Europe, where they banned and confiscated guns did that....
> 
> We average around 10,000 gun murders a year...most of the victims of that gun murder are criminals...not innocent people....then, of the rest, who are innocent victims...the majority are the friends and family of the criminals hit by mistake...
> 
> ...


Abortion has killed more Blacks in America since 1974 than Blacks died from War ,Famine ,Natural Disaster ,Auto Accidents ,Lynchings ,Animal Attacks ,electrocution ,STDs ,exposure , Cancer, slip & fall , Sporting Accidents ,execution as Criminals , in last 400 years


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## Dragonlady (Dec 15, 2022)

miketx said:


> If there is any justice the next person he kills will be a democrat.



Another day, another right winger wishing death on Democrats. Is it any wonder the right has become so violent that they’re a danger to the nation?


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## Failzero (Dec 15, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Another day, another right winger wishing death on Democrats. Is it any wonder the right has become so violent that they’re a danger to the nation?


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 15, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Bullshit.  You're passing laws to allow anyone to carry at any time.


This is, of course, a lie.


Dragonlady said:


> That's insanity and it's why you have the highest murder rate in the first world.


This is also a lie.


Dragonlady said:


> If guns kept you safe, the USA would be the safest country in the world,


1993-2019 gun-related violent crime in the US fell 55%
1993-2019, the number of guns in the US invreased 40%
Guns make us safer.


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## miketx (Dec 15, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Another day, another right winger wishing death on Democrats. Is it any wonder the right has become so violent that they’re a danger to the nation?


You all need to be purged. You are all filth.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 15, 2022)

miketx said:


> You all need to be purged. You are all filth.


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## Dragonlady (Dec 15, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> This is, of course, a lie.
> 
> This is also a lie.
> 
> ...



Americans keep citing American crime statistics as evidence of the value of guns in crime prevention instead of properly comparing your numbers against those of other first world countries.


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## 2aguy (Dec 15, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Bullshit.  You're passing laws to allow anyone to carry at any time.  That's insanity and it's why you have the highest murder rate in the first world.
> 
> If guns kept you safe, the USA would be the safest country in the world, instead of one where people fear to go to the mall or send their kids to school.  When you churches need armed guards to keep people "safe" from mass shooters, your gun laws are a total and complete failure.




You have to explain this....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*
*======
*
*The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974. *


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

*
The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974. *


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

*What changed in 2015?*

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.


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## 2aguy (Dec 15, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Americans keep citing American crime statistics as evidence of the value of guns in crime prevention instead of properly comparing your numbers against those of other first world countries.




Here....a comparison between us and other First World countries that banned and confiscated guns....

Europe.... between 1939-1945 the governments of Europe under socialist control murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children....not casualties of war, but people taken into forests and sent to death camps.......

15 million people murdered in 6 years.

United States...... 246 years of gun murder.....total murdered....around 2,460,000....these are majority criminals murdered by criminals...not innocent people.


Soooo...Comparison.

Europe.... 6 years....15 million murdered

United States.....246 years....gun murder 2,460,000

That is the truth...that is an accurate comparison.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 16, 2022)

Dragonlady said:


> Americans keep citing American crime statistics...


I'm sorry you don't like the fact more guns = less gun violence.


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## JoeB131 (Yesterday at 5:59 PM)

2aguy said:


> Can any of the anti-gun fanatics here on U.S.messageboard explain to us why you guys keep releasing the most dangerous gun criminals?
> 
> An explanation would be nice.....



Sure.. You wingnuts keep jamming people in jail for selling pot and other minor non-crimes, that's why they have to let murderers out.

IN this case, he got a life sentence at 18 years old, a sentence that would not be given to an 18 year old today under current sentencing guidelines.


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## Failzero (Yesterday at 6:34 PM)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure.. You wingnuts keep jamming people in jail for selling pot and other minor non-crimes, that's why they have to let murderers out.
> 
> IN this case, he got a life sentence at 18 years old, a sentence that would not be given to an 18 year old today under current sentencing guidelines.


Drugs are legal in Oregon


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