# Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against Isis Violence



## Coyote (Sep 25, 2014)

Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence NPR







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> Sheik Abdullah bin Bayyah is interviewed about his fatwa* explaining why ISIS is wrong to claim that Islam supports violence and the establishment of a caliphate by force*.
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> Then he singled out one organization and one man leading that charge: the new Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies and Sheik Abdullah bin Bayyah. Describing the group's purpose, the sheik said, "We must declare war on war so the outcome will be peace upon peace."
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ISIS is not Islamic.

And here, once again, are Muslim voices speaking out against and doing something about this extremist group.


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## AquaAthena (Sep 25, 2014)

ISIS is an acronym for _Islamic_ State of Iraq and Syria.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 25, 2014)

If ISIS is not Islamic why are Muslims going to fight for them?


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 25, 2014)

ISIS is most certainly Islamic, so the claim in the OP simply isn't true.  Now, apologists certainly do not WANT them to be Islamic, since the entire purpose of their apologia is to defend anything and everything associated with Islam,  but one cleric issuing a fatwa does not mean they aren't Islamic -- it just means that there are disagreements within Islam, just as there are in any other religion. 

 One could just as easily engage in this ruse with Christianity or Judaism by claiming that certain elements contained within are not Christian or Jewish, but that has more to do with an internecine squabble within the religions as to purity of belief than it does objective reality.


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## shart_attack (Sep 25, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> If ISIS is not Islamic why are Muslims going to fight for them?



Lots of folks who thought they were "Christians" signed up to fight for Hitler's _wehrmacht_, you know.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 25, 2014)




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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 25, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> If ISIS is not Islamic why are Muslims going to fight for them?



We have also seen that American are fighting with them.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 25, 2014)

shart_attack said:


> High_Gravity said:
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The Nazis were not doing Gods work or focused on the Bible as far as I know.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 25, 2014)

It's from NPR.  Do you really expect something substantive?

Shieks are tribal leaders not Islamic scholars.  They can't issue fatwas.  Fatwas can only be issued by an Islamic scholar or religious leader like a mufti or ayatollah. 

NPR depends on people not understanding Islamic law or the difference between who is able to issue a fatwa or who isn't. 

fatwa - definition of fatwa by The Free Dictionary


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## High_Gravity (Sep 25, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> High_Gravity said:
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> > If ISIS is not Islamic why are Muslims going to fight for them?
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Yes, Muslim Americans sure.


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## Coyote (Sep 25, 2014)

AquaAthena said:


> ISIS is an acronym for _Islamic_ State of Iraq and Syria.



Doesn't mean it is Islamic.

North Korea's official name is Democratic People's Republic of Korea.....you see anything "democratic" about NK?


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## Coyote (Sep 25, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> If ISIS is not Islamic why are Muslims going to fight for them?



Because young people can be incredibly stupid and gullible.


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## Esmeralda (Sep 25, 2014)

I don't understand why people  don't get this. I really don't understand. It is a simple concept. Just because these people, groups like ISIS, SAY they are acting in the name of Islam, that does not mean they are. Just because very misguided and extremist people join ISIS and fight with them, that does not mean those people represent Islam.  They are misguided, they are crazy, they are terrorists and extremists...they do not represent mainstream, modern day Islam. It is a very, very simple concept. IMO, anyone who doesn't get it just doesn't want to.

I can go out and say I am fighting for Christ and mow down a dozen people with a machine gun. That does not mean I represent Christ; it just means I say I do. Anyone interested in truth knows my actions do not represent Christ.


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## Esmeralda (Sep 25, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


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## shart_attack (Sep 25, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


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Apparently you don't know much, because yeah, they were.

Hitler and his inner circle of Vril-worshipping occultists wrapped themselves under the cloak of Christianity to appeal to the volk.

Any Western Civilization II professor  will tell you that.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 25, 2014)

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Well, you have a point there.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 25, 2014)

shart_attack said:


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Yeah ok.


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 25, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


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The key word here is "represent".

The KKK represents the beliefs of a certain number of Christians. Isis/Isil and their ilk represent the beliefs of a certain number of Muslims.  What apologists consistently fail to acknowledge is HOW MANY they do, indeed, represent in either case.

 Without intellectual honesty, the entire discussion becomes bogged down by sophistry. If a person has to resort to finding something that is extremely rare in one religion in order to defend something that is quite common in another, they are indulging in just that. .


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## Coyote (Sep 25, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's from NPR.  Do you really expect something substantive?
> 
> Shieks are tribal leaders not Islamic scholars.  They can't issue fatwas.  Fatwas can only be issued by an Islamic scholar or religious leader like a mufti or ayatollah.
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Fatwa:
_A *fatwā* (Arabic: فتوى‎; plural *fatāwā* Arabic: فتاوى‎) in the Islamic faith is the term for the legal opinion or learned interpretation that *a qualified jurist* or mufti can give on issues pertaining to the Islamic law.[1] The person who issues a fatwā is called, in that respect, a Mufti, i.e. an issuer of fatwā, from the verb أَفْتَى 'aftā = "he gave a formal legal opinion on". *This is not necessarily a formal position since most Muslims argue that anyone trained in Islamic law may give an opinion (fatwā) on its teachings.* If a fatwā does not break new ground, then it is simply called a ruling.[2]

An analogy might be made to the issue of legal opinions from courts in common-law systems. Fatwās generally contain the details of the scholar's reasoning, typically in response to a particular case, and are considered binding precedent by those Muslims who have bound themselves to that scholar, including future muftis; mere rulings can be compared to memorandum opinions. The primary difference between common-law opinions and fatwās, however, is that fatwās are not universally binding; as sharia law is not universally consistent and Islam is very non-hierarchical in structure, fatwās do not carry the sort of weight that secular common-law opinions do._​Abdallah bin Mahfudh ibn Bayyah
_*Abdallah bin Mahfudh ibn Bayyah* (born 1935[1]) was born in Mauritania. He teaches at King Abdul Aziz University in Saudi Arabia.[3] He is a specialist in all four traditional Sunni schools, with an emphasis on the Maliki Madh'hab.

In his youth, he was appointed to study legal judgments in Tunis. On returning to Mauritania, he became Minister of Education and later Minister of Justice. He was also appointed a Vice President of the first president of Mauritania.[3]

Bin Bayyah is involved in number of scholarly councils including The Islamic Fiqh Council, a Saudi-based Institute, he was also the Vice-President of International Union of Muslim Scholars.[4] from which he resigned mid 2013.[5] He is also a member of the Dublin-based European Council for Fatwa and Research, a council of Muslim clerics that aims at explaining Islamic law in a way that is sensitive to the realities of European Muslims.[6]

He was ranked amongst the 500 most influential Muslims from 2009 - 2013.[7]_

_Bin Bayyah is one of the Ulama signatories of the Amman Message, which gives a broad foundation for defining Muslim orthodoxy.[8]_

_The *Amman Message* (Arabic: رسالة عمان‎) is a statement calling for tolerance and unity in the Muslim world that was issued on 9 November 2004 (27th of Ramadan 1425 AH) by King Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein of Jordan.[1] Subsequently, a three-point ruling was issued by 200 Islamic scholars from over 50 countries, focusing on issues of defining who a Muslim is; excommunication from Islam (takfir), and; principles related to delivering religious edicts (fatāwa).[2]_​

I think NPR knows more about Islam than you seem to.
​


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## AquaAthena (Sep 25, 2014)

Interesting back-n-forth:


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 25, 2014)

According to some here, this means Westboro includes all Baptists. 

And since the Oklahoma bomber was a baptist, all baptists are bombers.


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## aris2chat (Sep 25, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's from NPR.  Do you really expect something substantive?
> 
> Shieks are tribal leaders not Islamic scholars.  They can't issue fatwas.  Fatwas can only be issued by an Islamic scholar or religious leader like a mufti or ayatollah.
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> ...



Actually they can and do.  Sheiks, clerics, imams, muftis, anyone well versed that studied the quran...

Not the first and hopefully not the last
U.S. Muslim Religious Council Issues Fatwa Against Terrorism Islamic Circle of North America ICNA


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## Bleipriester (Sep 25, 2014)

BAGHDAD (AP) — A leading Shiite Muslim cleric widely followed by Iraqi militants has issued the first public religious edict permitting Shiites to fight in Syria's civil war alongside President Bashar Assad's forces.

The fatwa by Iran-based Grand Ayatollah Kazim al-Haeri, one of the mentors of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, comes as thousands of Shiite fighters mostly from Iraq and Lebanon play a major role in the battles.

The call likely will increase the sectarian tones of the war, which pits overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim rebels against members of Assad's Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam. The situation has worsened with the influx of thousands of Shiite and Sunni foreign fighters.
Shiite Cleric Issues Fatwa In Support Of Fighting In Syria War Grand Ayatollah Kazim al-Haeri Supports Assad


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## aris2chat (Sep 25, 2014)

Why Ayatollah Al-Sistani s Iraq Fatwa Is So Important
Egyptian islamic authority issues fatwa against ISIS 8211 The Islam Telegraph 8211 Latest News Muslim World Islam 
UK Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against ISIS Caravan Daily

and on the other hand...

Report ISIS Issues Pro-Rape Fatwa in Northern Iraq The Gateway Pundit
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...-order-female-genital-mutilation-in-Iraq.html


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 25, 2014)

It would be interesting to hear from the apologists who have appointed themselves arbiters as to who isn't a Muslim as to who IS a Muslim.

Is the Taliban Muslim?  

How about Hamas, Hizb'Allah, and Hizb Ut Tahrir? Do they get to be called Muslim?

Do the leaders of Iran get to be included in the Muslim club, and what about tha Wahabists in Saudia Arabia? Muslim or non Muslim?

Are the Muslim Brotherhood Muslim?  How about the hundreds upon hundreds of MILLIONS who believe a person who leaves Islam should be put to death? Muslim or non Muslim?

How about the untold millions upon millions who have had their genitals mutilated or who have supported the mutilation?  Are they in your club?

Seems to me that once a person abandons any semblance of honesty by pursuing an agenda to limit a definition in such a way to only include something palatable, they would end up leaving more Muslims outside their definition than inside.

What hubris it takes for a westerner to decide who gets to be a Muslim and who doesn't when they actual people involved are so thoroughly convinced they are Muslim that it influences their every waking thought.


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## Coyote (Sep 25, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> It would be interesting to hear from the apologists who have appointed themselves arbiters as to who isn't a Muslim as to who IS a Muslim.
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> Is the Taliban Muslim?
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I think Muslim scholars are a better source than non-Muslims in determining what is or isn't Islamic.


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## aris2chat (Sep 25, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> It would be interesting to hear from the apologists who have appointed themselves arbiters as to who isn't a Muslim as to who IS a Muslim.
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> Is the Taliban Muslim?
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Shahadah/statement of faith, salah/prayer, alms, fasting, hajj if able

as to what is islam.... that is by sect, school of though, personal understanding of the quran and which hadith you consider righteous


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## Sally (Sep 25, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> It would be interesting to hear from the apologists who have appointed themselves arbiters as to who isn't a Muslim as to who IS a Muslim.
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> Is the Taliban Muslim?
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I am sure there are many Muslims who are appalled at what ISIS is doing.  However, if so many mosques in Denmark are not condemning what is happening, you can be sure that the same thing is happening in other mosques in Europe and elsewhere.  I am curious about one thing.  During the Gaza war, protests against Israel were held around the world.  There was one right here in front of the Federal Building in West Los Angeles.  If these people took the time to protest against Israel en masse, why aren't they taking the time to hold protests against ISIS and Al Qaeda?

Minority support extremism Only 2 out... - Christian Defence League - Holland Flanders Facebook


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## irosie91 (Sep 25, 2014)

sally---you are more patient than am I in citing stuff------GOOGLE   Sheik Abdullah bin Bayyah---he is actually quite a bastard himself


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## Sally (Sep 25, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> sally---you are more patient than am I in citing stuff------GOOGLE   Sheik Abdullah bin Bayyah---he is actually quite a bastard himself



I see what you mean.  However, with all the beheadings going on and women taken as slaves, what else can he really say even if he is cheering these terrorists from the sidelines?


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## irosie91 (Sep 25, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
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well,  sally----with your talent for posting citations -----we can certainly DEBUNK the
disgusting pig as  a  putative peacenik----
someone did so present him------I am not naming names.    The shaykh was even presented as-------a fine EXAMPLE OF THE REAL BEAUTY OF ISLAM     <gag>


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## Coyote (Sep 25, 2014)

Sally said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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Interesting "source"...a facebook page.  Did you dig a bit deeper?

*Only 2 out of 14 Mosques (14%) in Denmark were willing to distance themselves from the Islamic State*"

The facebook page quotes a "blog" of sorts that makes the claim "



> The actual article claims: _TV2 East television station contacted a number of mosques in East Jutland and asked them the simple question whether they would denounce the Islamic State._
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> _A mosque in Horsens took clear and unambiguous distance from IS and called it a terrorist organization. Two mosques in Randers and Silkeborg did not respond. In Aarhus, only one in six mosques say that they distance themselves from the Islamic State.
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East Jutland only - not Denmark.

Out of 14 Mosques...2 refused to comment, 3 could not be contacted, and the author takes that to mean they "support" ISIS.

What a load of rubbish - it's a piss poor study.  You've been complaining that Muslims do nothing, here is a good example that they are doing something and instead of applauding it you vomit up crap.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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I vomit up  "crap"   filthy dog?    wrong again -----you justify murder and rape in the name of the stink you worship.      What a load of excrement are you.     Objection to isis somwhow---in your perverted sick head---- defines ALL JIHADIST stink was sweet.    Saudai Arabia objects to ISIS------so you can kiss their filth too


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


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Is your name Sally?  Was I talking to you?  I prefer to ignore your spew.

You really are a nutcase with a foul mouth.

I've never justified murder or rape except in your delusional mind.

And, of course - you have nothing to say about the actual post or the validity of the study do you?


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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good point---just as jewish scholars are better sources for a discussion of Zionism than are islamo Nazi pigs-----getting back to the issue of   FATWAH------I learned about that issue more than 40 years ago when  Pakistani muslim scholars----those of WEST PAKISTAN----issued fatwahs regarding the
status of  east Pakistani muslims whom they
declared   "TAKFIR" -----which simply speaking means   "not muslim"     This fatwah
rendered  all east Pakistanis -----liable for legal rape and murder----regardless of age or gender in the conflict between east and west Pakistan.    The Red cross figures----1/4 million girls raped.       At that time I was working with several young Pakistani physicians and surgeons----I was horrified 
(well----I was young)     An outcome of the many rapes was that the FAMILIES of the raped girls were abandoning them and they were dying in droves from either suicide or
neglect.    Silly little chickee that I was----I suggested that the muslim CLERICS intervene-----and get the people to----change their ways------my muslim colleagues were HORRIFIED at my suggestion-----they said
 "YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND----those girls are finished.....they have no future"      since that time----not one rapist of the group was
prosecuted------rape of an  "enemy girl"  is legal in Islamic jurisprudence even if she is a muslim.     If she is not a muslim---it is rarely considered a crime----never a serious crime--mostly legal

Abdallah bin Mahfudh ibn Bayyah<<< check him out carefully in order to understand that which coyote considered the   JESUS CHRIST  (in reference to morality---not divinity)  in the mind of  Coyote-----it ain't a
pretty picture.    He is the big shot "MODERATE"-------the bestest of the best islam has to offer in MODERATENESS-----check out just what he DOES actually support----(not a pretty picture)


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


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If I want to learn about Judaism, I would talk with Jews from various sects, including scholars.  If I want to learn about Christianity, I would do the same with Christians.  If I want to learn about Islam, same thing.

I don't no what you mean by "Jesus Christ" or what you are going on about.  He's an Islamic scholar and he has the credentials to issue a fatwah and he has done so in regards to ISIS along with other respected Islamic clerics and figures.  That is what I have been talking about.


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## aris2chat (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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*“Minority support extremism? Only 2 out of 14 Mosques (14%) in Denmark were willing to distance themselves from the Islamic State,” The Muslim Issue, September 24, 2014*


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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*
Read Post 32.*


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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My goodness, I didn't expect you to vomit up anything about what this Imam in the U.S. was preaching  (as well as the other members of the clergy in the Muslim world who preach the same)..

What this Muslim Imam said while 8220 preaching 8221 in TENNESSEE about Christians and Jews should be national news 8230 

Nor do I ever see you vomiting up anything about the anti-Semitic stuff dragged up by posters.  Nor did I expect you to find an excuse for the Muslims not protesting all the killing being done by fellow Muslims in the Middle East.  Maybe they just took enough time off from work and didn't have any more vacation time or sick leave to do this since they used it all up protesting the Israelis. As a civilized person, I would have expected you to at least have had a word for the people and their travails in Iraq and Syria, people like the Tazidis, the Christians, and the Kurds.  Yetr there was not a word from you, and as per usual you were going into your public relations mode for the Muslims.  Nobody said that all the Muslims (including members of the clergy) are for ISIS and there are many who are ashamed at what is happening.  There are Muslims, however, who are for ISIS and try as you want to deny it, they are there.

One in six French people say they support ISIS - Vox


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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Geez Sally, you can't even stay on topic on your own thread can you?  You must hate the fact that Muslims in large numbers do not consider ISIS Islamic nor do they support ISIS and clerics, religious scholars are trying to stem the propaganda promoted by IS.  I would have thought this would have made you glad.

Interesting bit from your Vox article:



> This is alarming, in part because a growing number of Europeans, often from predominantly Muslim immigrant communities, are not just expressing their support for ISIS in polls: they are traveling to Syria and Iraq to join up. The ISIS fighter who killed American journalist James Foley on video last week spoke with a strong London accent. * European governments are rightly worried about the implications of this for their own national security.*
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> But there's more going on here.* It's no secret that far-right politics have been on the rise in Western Europe, which includes a growing willingness to embrace extremism and greater intolerance of all kinds. It is ironic but by no means impossible that far-right Islamophobia would rise in Europe alongside a greater approval of the Islamist group ISIS. Extremism is often reactive and ideologically contradictory.*
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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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Yeah, I can see why the Europeans are worried.  Who even knows how many more in Europe support ISIS or Al Qaeda.  We can even throw in Africa and Southeast Asia and wonder how many support these groups.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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I think an equally bad worry is the rise of radical/nationalist rightwing politics that is helping fuel tensions and alienation in immigrant and minority communities. It's an explosive combination.


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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Well you can think what you want to.  Perhaps if the immigrants assimiliated like immigrants around the world did before, maybe there wouldn't be such tensions.  Meanwhile, I hope you don't mind if I ask you where was your compassion and sympathy for the Tazidis, the Christians, and the Kurds who have been and are still going through such travails in their native lands?  I think this is more important than you running over here trying to give good publicity to the Muslims.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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In my heart.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

You do realize that many Kurds are also Muslim don't you?


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*Muslim Leaders Worldwide Condemn ISIS Global Research*




> *Many Americans Want to Know Why Muslims Aren’t Condemning ISIS*
> ABC News’ Laura Ingraham, Fox News’ Sean Hannity, Fox & Friends and other U.S. media commentators say that Muslims are silent and complicit in the barbarian crimes of ISIS.  Fox News host Andrea Tantaros said that all Muslims are the same as ISIS, and implied that all Muslims should be met “with a bullet to the head”.
> 
> Why _don’t_ we hear Muslims condemning the barbarian ISIS terrorists?
> ...


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You do realize that many Kurds are also Muslim don't you?



Of course I do.  Do you think I ask what the religion of the children are when I send money to UNICEF?  However, you have been very quiet about what is happening to the people in Iraq and Syria no matter what their religion might be.  If appears that you only now jumped on this forum to be the Public Relations agent for the Muslims even though Muslims have been and are still being murdered by other Muslims in these areas.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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I don't respond to 99% of the threads in USMB,* including most of the threads here*.  Every now and then I post something.  And no Sally, I didn't "just jump" here - I've posted here as long as you have - maybe longer.  I just don't spend all my time churning out article after article after article thinking that is some sort of indication that a person is "concerned".

Why do you have *such a problem *with any attempts to show a positive aspect of Islam or Muslims?  Why do attack it every time even when they do the right thing?  Why do you want to shut down those voices?  I would think that you for one would appreciate the fact that more and more influential leaders are loudly and publically speaking out.  But you don't.


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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Blah, blah blah goes the Public Relations agent for Islam.  So many people have been suffering in Iraq and Syria, and she felt she did her duty by trying to persuade us that there are really only just a few Muslims involved, and all the rest of the Muslims are against ISIS.  Meanwhile, regardless of what she posted, for all that has been going in in Iraq and Syria, has anyone seen Coyote give a mention as to what is happening to the people there?  One would think that she would at least have mentioned incidents where Muslims were killing other Muslims.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

You've pretty much confirmed once again,  that attempting to converse with you is a complete and utter waste of time as you seem to be nothing more than a troll.  

*More Than 100 Muslim Clerics Sign Letter Condemning ISIS*

Top Muslim leaders in the United States on Wednesday released a detailed refutation of claims by the terrorist group ISIS that its actions in Iraq and Syria are in keeping with Islamic law. The letter, signed by 111 prominent clerics from around the world, lists dozens of ways in which the clerics assert that ISIS has consistently violated Islamic law.

More Than 100 Muslim Clerics Sign Letter Condemning ISIS - Yahoo News


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You've pretty much confirmed once again,  that attempting to converse with you is a complete and utter waste of time as you seem to be nothing more than a troll.
> 
> *More Than 100 Muslim Clerics Sign Letter Condemning ISIS*
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It has become clear to many of the rational readers that you don't want to hear anything bad against the Muslims no matter how many thousands and thousands of people they kill.  Speaking of trolls, I have to laugh at you saying that, and it only shows how ridiculous you are.

Just because someone signs something doesn't mean that in his heart he thinks opposite.  Meanwhile, I think we are quite aware of the many clerics who are inciting the people to become terrorists.  You know we can keep this up all day long, but the fact of the matter is that regardless what these clerics say, innocent people are still dying and that is the important thing.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*A spark of good news from the Mideast*
Opinion Muslims are tired of extremism - CNN.com



> A recent poll of 14 Muslim-majority countries by the Pew Research Center has come up with startling, highly encouraging results: Muslims are becoming increasingly opposed to extremism.
> 
> Muslims are turning against organizations that support violence and terrorism. Public approval for suicide bombings is way down, and so is support for the likes of al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas and Boko Haram.
> 
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Concerns about Islamic Extremism on the Rise in Middle East Pew Research Center s Global Attitudes Project


Middle East Concerns about Islamic Extremism Grow
Negative Views of al Qaeda Common
Boko Haram Reviled in Nigeria
Pakistanis Have No Love for Taliban
Hezbollah Disliked in Middle East
Hamas Viewed Negatively, Even in Palestinian Territories


Tolerance for extremism is declining in areas where people have lived with and suffered under it.  Perhaps that's why groups like ISIS have to recruit foriegners - usually young men who feel disenfranchised and are seduced by incredibly sophisticated and professionally produced propaganda into thinking they are fighting for Islam.  When they get there, they are executed if they try to leave or have no where to return to because they have joined a terrorist group.  

Even some women have been recruited and gone to join them.  They are a cult.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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So now you're a psychic Sally - you claim to know what's in their hearts?  The only thing you are making obvious is that you hate Muslims and even when something good is presented you'll find some way to negate it.  

You don't care about innocent people dying.  If you did, you wouldn't confine your "concern" to just one area.

Thank you for clarity.


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## Meathead (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Because young people can be incredibly stupid and gullible.


I would like to believe someone with wisdom would not be so gullible to claim that the likes of ISIS and Al Qaeda are not Islamic. That would be the foolishness of self-righteous youth.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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> > Coyote said:
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Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Because young people can be incredibly stupid and gullible.
> ...




I have worked with muslims educated muslims for more than 40 years-----MOST from south east asia-----thus I have a very clear picture of their thoughts on   AL QUEIDA and  TALIBAN  etc   ---In fact I had been in mosques DECADES  ago---but not since-----still muslims were not adverse to telling me in fair detail the WISDOM
imparted at the last Khutbah Jumaat.    Here is the real story----until  9-11-01----even educated muslims had a very high EXPRESSED opinion of Osama bin Laden----after 9-11----they did not want to talk about it      They still love the Taliban.
CALIPHATE  is the only legitimate government in
Islamic ideology


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Because young people can be incredibly stupid and gullible.
> ...



It's not me making the "claims" - I'm merely *quoting what Islamic scholars and clerics are saying.*

Are you an expert or...is that the "foolishness of self-righteous youth"?


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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I wish to thank you for showing us what a hard-working public relations agent you are for Islam.  There has been so much in the news about how innocent people have been suffering in iraq and Syria, but you deemed it more important to blabber about people against ISIS.  What is more important -- the lives of innocent people or what some Muslim clerics are saying?  Regardless what they are saying, the killings will still be going on.

By the way, I was reading the other day how Muslims in Jordan were saying they were against ISIS because they were afraid to say they were for them as the government would be keeping tabs to see who was for terrorism.  If I find the article again, I'll show it to you.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
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You don't think it's important news that people are against ISIS?


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Meathead said:
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actually you picking and choosing random virtually meaningless comments and
OVER INTERPRETING them     
A comment----I AM AGAINST TERRORISM ---
from a muslim cleric is virtually meaningless
unless he DEFINES   "TERRORISM"
For a muslim   QADI    to deplore "murder"---does not mean he deplores grabbing a four year old
jewish girl  by the hair and blowing her brains out-------in Islamic law that is not "MURDER".  
It is jihadism for allah.      In fact in Islamic law such an act cannot  be called a  "capital crime"


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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I think we can use our heads that there are Muslims again ISIS -- whether it is because they either genuinely don't like to see innocent people killed or they don't like to see Islam's reputatioin stained so now they are speaking out.  However, I will reiterate -- what is more important -- the lives of people or others just speaking out against ISIS whether they are genuinely concerned or not?


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
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I am "picking" statements from well respected religious figures who represent many Muslims.  I'm quoting directly, not "interpreting" anything.  Any "interpretation" is coming from you, as you have amply demonstrated.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You do realize that many Kurds are also Muslim don't you?


 
The Kurds are indeed Muslim, but they face pure hell fire from the Turks, Arabs and Iranians who honestly just want them dead. They are one of our only friends in the Middle East.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

You don't think it's important news that people are against ISIS?[/QUOTE]


for anyone who knows anything at all about muslims and islam  ----IT IS NOT NEWS----and it is CERTAINLY not a vote against Islamic
barbarism.      It is the typical sectarian crap that
has characterized islam for  1400 years-----bloody and barbaric  and the sluts will continue to
ululate and wiggle their fat asses every time their "brothers"   mutilate babies to death


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## Meathead (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Meathead said:
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I simply have a grasp of the obvious which prevents me from making or believing,silly statements like radical Islamic groups are not Islamic.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
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I think we can "use our heads" that ISIS is committing atrocities but that doesn't stop you Sally 

What is more important?  Well that depends.  I think what is important to you is not the "lives of people".  If it were, you might be interested in solutions and in what's going on around the world to try and make those lives a little safer and combat ISIS, and that means more people than just the West getting involved and that also means influential Muslim figures and religious leaders speaking out against Islamic extremism and ISIS.  That is what is happening and that is the only thing that is going to change the situation on the ground long term for these people you profess to care about.  So is that important?  I think it's very important.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Meathead said:


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Check.  "foolishness of self-righteous youth"


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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wrong----you are INTERPRETING   -----
   in the absence of a DEFINITION of 
  "INNOCENT" person and "TERRORISM"
  being "'"against it"   is meaningless----the filthy
  pig you "quoted"   as some kind of saint----has
  endorsed many  terrorist pigs just like himself.

  In Islamic law     "murder"  refers only to the
  illegal killing of a  "MUSLIM"       "rape"   refers
  to illegal sex with a MUSLIM woman---or the
  of a muslim ----whatever her creed. assuming
  she has not been placed under an edict of
  TAKFIR-----how many of the   1/4 million rapes
  committed by the west Pakistani army were
  prosecuted?     How many of the hundreds of
  thousands in   south sudan.   Unganda?  
  Nigeria?       the question is silly since those
 actions are not crimes.    The pig you quoted is
 a  QADI


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > You do realize that many Kurds are also Muslim don't you?
> ...



Agree.  They are our only friends and look at how many times we've let them down.

It also goes to show that the conflicts in that area are much more complex than simple religion.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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Agreed we have totally fucked the Kurds more than once, but if it was not for our no fly zone established in the North after the first Gulf War the Kurds would have been all but exterminated, but I do agree we have let them down.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

The Kurds really deserve their own state.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Meathead said:


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Is the Lords Resistence Army Christian?


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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Amazing!!!  Just a while ago she was telling me I couldn't read the minds of people, but right now she thinks she is reading my mind as to what I think.  If you were so interested in the lives of innocent people yourself, you wouldn't have waited this long to jump on this forum only with the intention of telling the readers that there are clergy against ISIS.  Don't you think that rational viewews can figure you out?  Meanwhile, Coyote thinks that if "all" this Muslim clergy speak out against ISIS, there will be no Muslim clergy left to incite others to join ISIS.  What a dreamer she is?  Evidently she doesn't think that there are clergy and other Muslims who are dreaming of this glorious Caliphate to come.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
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yes-----true ----kurds are ok       In fact there are jewish kurds.       I had a friend who was a KURD---Iranian kurd-----jewish.     Salaadin was a kurd. 
He has a reputation for being a fair minded person------MAIMONIDES was his personal physician and he used his position with Saaladin do protect the jews of Egypt from the kind of filth that   coyote regularly endorses.    An interesting history-----the synagogue that Maimonides
used-----he was the rabbi there-----is  still in Egypt-----there is a statue of Maimonides over there.    -----a bit weird for jews---but there it is.

recently the Egyptian government has decided to "ALLOW"  jews to visit the synagogue but they cannot pray there.------perverse but true.

More on Maimonides-----he was the person who
endorsed  FAKE CONVERSION----he even detailed ways to fake a conversion to islam.   His stuff was later used by the jews of spain 

all interesting????


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Is the Lords Resistence Army Christian?[/QUOTE]


the lord's resistant army is an exception that proves the rule------a muslim who rejects the  
BEAUTY OF SLUTS TYING BOMBS ON THEIR ASSES  in order to murder hindus or Christians or jews endangers his life-----he is a DISSIDENT---and a BLASPHEMER AGAINST ALLAH


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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Oh gee, are we back to the Lords Resistance Army once again from you, Coyote?  If you research far enough back, you will find an article that states they are funded by Muslims.  Regardless of this,  is the Boko Haram a Christian group, Coyote?  They are the ones who are being active right now.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
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Where did you come up with such a stupid statement Sally?  That's not even remotely what I said.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
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Let's simplify this a little and see if we can figure out what you really think.

Are all groups who claim to be Islamic Islamic?
Are all groups who claim to be Christian Christian?


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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you are over simplifying and stretching sophistry to the point of obscenity.     In fact---in every discussion in which you  struggle to support your sick  POV-----you search out the exceptional case to  PROVE your point.   and grossly over interpret and over emphasize any tidbit that has a semblance of supporting your filth       I am reminded of the first muslim I knew well----a Shiite physician from New dehli------whose first
comment to me was
  "ISLAM HAS THE MOST TOLERATION"   ----
I was young and willing to believe it----but then got to know so much more-----and from whom?----from muslims.     Their hatred of HINDUS 
was so thick it seemed like a sea of jello whenever the two groups were together.   Most impressive was the ISLAMIC impression that as a jew----I was SUPPOSED to harbor similar feelings against   HINDU IDOL WORSHIPPERS.
and have absolutely no negative sense of their
disdain for Christianity   (anyone who wants to know what muslims think of Christianity --tell them you are jew)


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*Local Muslims condemn ISIS*
Local Muslims condemn ISIS - Our Region - The Sacramento Bee



> At Friday’s Jumah – the main weekly Muslim service – Imam M.A. Azeez told his 1,000 congregants at the Salam Islamic Center in Sacramento that “everything that ISIS stands for is the antithesis of Islamic teaching.”
> 
> “It seems that those thugs who have attached themselves to Islam are doing the exact opposite of everything Muslims are supposed to be doing in the months leading up to the hajj pilgrimage,” Azeez added.
> 
> ...


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## Meathead (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Is the Lords Resistence Army Christian?


Of course they are. They're batshit crazy, but they're Christians.
Muhammad himself was psychotic and fanatic, but certainly a Muslim.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

I was in mosques in the USA   long before anyone cared and long before the FBI was
LISTENING IN.     for the record---mosques used by muslims from  --muslim countries---mostly south east asia------they spoke in English because  southeast Asians have ONLY English as a common language


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*Do 1 in 6 French citizens really support Islamic State?*
Do 1 in 6 French citizens really support Islamic State - The Washington Post

Food for thought.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Is the Lords Resistence Army Christian?
> ...




there are crazy people in all groups------It does not take a  "crazy"  muslim to grab a kid and behead it.     ----it takes a HIGHLY HONORED 
MUJAHAD.       I have never encountered a non crazy Christian who was into beheading  infidels----lately


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
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> 
> > Is the Lords Resistence Army Christian?
> ...




What makes them "Christian" then?  Mainstream Christians and religious leaders don't regard them as Christians.


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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Really, Coyote???  It seems to me that you insinuated I was reading the minds of those who are condemning ISIS when i said that they could condemn and not really mean it.  Meanwhile, it is amusing to see how you are so determined to let this thread go on and on and on while innocent people are still dying even today and no matter how many Muslims are condemning it, this doesn't mean that the killiong will stop, the same way you don't see the killing stop when we hear about Shia and Sunnis suicide and car bombing each other in the Muslim world before ISIS even reared its ugly head....

Gosh, do I wish when I was a working gal, I had all the time in the world to fool around.  There was no Internet in my time, but I could have wasted time hanging around the water cooler gabbing with co-workers instead of coincentrating on my work.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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And yet...here you are


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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I'm retired.  How about you?  At least I gave my bosses my all for my paycheck.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*To prevent homegrown Islamist radicalism, drop the media hysteria*
The disproportionate attention given to radicalism feeds into ongoing misrepresentations of Muslims in the west. How about engaging with the Muslim community instead?

To prevent homegrown Islamist radicalism drop the media hysteria Kavita Bedford Comment is free theguardian.com


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## Meathead (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> What makes them "Christian" then?  Mainstream Christians and religious leaders don't regard them as Christians.


People do not look to you to define their religions, nor do I.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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Pathetic comeback.

And...here you are while innocent people are dying


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Meathead said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > What makes them "Christian" then?  Mainstream Christians and religious leaders don't regard them as Christians.
> ...



Again, I'll repeat - I'm not defining anyone's religion.  *I'm quoting what religious leaders have to say*.  I think they would *know more than either you or I* on what constitutes their religion.


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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Well here you are Coyote.  While people are dying, you can't even give your bosses an honest day's work.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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sunni muslims do not consider Shiites to be  "MUSLIMS"         lots of muslim sects do not
consider  SUFIS  to be muslims.      In the case of Shiites, and Sunnis and Sufis------you are talking about   LARGE GROUPS----actual MAJOR SECTS OF ISLAM for more---or in the case of sufi----almost  1000 years.     "lord's resistence army"    is nothing but an aberration.    ------like
MORMONS  to  regular Protestantism.     I would not be surprised if some people considered Mormons----not Christian.      I have been told that Mormons have their doubts.    Lots of people do not consider   JEHOVAH WITNESSES  to be Christian because they do not consider a cross
a symbol of their religion.  -----then there are
SCIENTOLOGISTS----who are all nuts.

I have known many many muslims from all parts of the world.      and many many jews from all parts of the world.         Jews is jews and muslims is muslims.          Jews from Afghanistan do the same things that jews from Germany do in their synagogues ---and share lots of customs.    
Muslims from Nigeria do the same things in their mosques that muslims from Pakistan do   
Jews from all over the world sing the same prayers and muslims from all over the world---sing the same prayers

My impression of Christians is that they are far more DIVERSE  in custom,  AND THEOLOGY


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
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You know nothing about my jobs or working hours even if you think you do. 

Now...don't you think you need to run around doing something about innocent people dying...post a bunch more threads and wring your hands?

In the meantime - there are people who really are trying to do something - aid workers out there helping people, religious leaders trying to stem the rise in radicalism, foreign leaders getting together to push back ISIS...and....here you are telling me I should be concerned about innocent people dying


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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coyote---   I have encountered some people who know as little as do you.      in fact lots.     You are no more ignorant of Islam and Judaism than are most  people of the USA.       The difference is that you pretend to know.      you don't


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## Meathead (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Again, I'll repeat - I'm not defining anyone's religion.  *I'm quoting what religious leaders have to say*.  I think they would *know more than either you or I* on what constitutes their religion.


Belief is not defined by others. If I choose to call myself a Catholic, I would not look to the Pope for validation, much less as a Muslim with no religious hierarchy.

It's simply babble.


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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Of course I know nothing about your job.  You might be working for some Muslims for all we know and they give you all the time in the world to post.   If you really cared about innocent people dying, you certainly would have been posting about all the atrocities which were happening to them and not just appear here to tell about some clergy who were against ISIS.  However, if you think you are fooling everyone, go for it.


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## aris2chat (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


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I was giving the source....other than facebook.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

So "caring" about innocent people dying means sitting on your ass all day in front of an internet messageboard churning out article after article ?

It doesn't get any better


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
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Ok, I misunderstood - I also located the source and I was quoting from it in my post - the study was weak.


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## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


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Yeah I have a little bit to say about the venomous one, Sally.

Sally is the worst kind of pretender. One who PRETENDS to care for different peoples in the M.E. while knowing full well her country, Israel, is killing/maiming children IN HUGE NUMBERS!! THOUSANDS!!

Oh wait, but they're Palestinian kids. That makes it OKAY (for her). They're future terrorists.  They're not worth as much as her precious Jewish kids, she thinks.

Man, that is messed up, and you know it Sally.  You should be condemning YOUR country, Israel and quit talking out of both sides of your a**.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

forrester------in its war against the baby killers of allah------Israel had not come close in the past
65 years to the number of dead kids thrown into the gutter for the glory of allah in the past single year----just in the middle east.    If you consider the rest of the world in its WORSHIP OF ALLAH----Israel is not even a factor in  the dead kids toll---   TENS OF MILLIONS           try to cope with reality


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## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> forrester------in its war against the baby killers of allah------Israel had not come close in the past
> 65 years to the number of dead kids thrown into the gutter for the glory of allah in the past single year----just in the middle east.    If you consider the rest of the world in its WORSHIP OF ALLAH----Israel is not even a factor in  the dead kids toll---   TENS OF MILLIONS           try to cope with reality


What about Israel's claim that they're so "Western-ish", democratic, CIVILIZED??  Israel does the same s*** that the so-called "barbarians" do. Israel is NO better. No respect for human life (of non-Jews).


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Meathead said:
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yes----you are right Coyote-----they do.    I learned about islam from muslims.    I learned about Judaism from jews.    I learned about Christianity from Christians------and Hinduism from hindus------there are lots of religions about which I know almost nothing-----I never had a close Buddhist informant.     Another important way to learn about   different cultures and religions is from  people NOT of that religion who lived amongst "them"     I was close with a Christian surgeon (female) from Bombay.   -----
and  ---lots of jews from muslim countries.  
and some muslims from HINDU INDIA   ---two
Zoroastrians from Bombay----(not really mu


Forester said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > forrester------in its war against the baby killers of allah------Israel had not come close in the past
> ...




forrester-----you and whatever is the group that spawned are barbaric  baby murderers----who enjoy mutilating children to death----you are filth.      What  about YOU?


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## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

You're completely psychotic to think I'm part of ANY group.  Hasbara technique.  
We all know the Zionists salivate at the thought of coercing the Americans to bomb Iran for them...so keep dishing dirt on Iran.

But most Americans don't really worry about Iran or the way they spank their kids or WHATEVER! Who cares?? It's not OUR AGENDA like it is your personal mission to forge opinion of Israel as a VICTIM.

Israel doesn't have International Acceptance to have nukes anyway does it? Israel is not a member of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel is GROUPED TOGETHER WITH NORTH KOREA, PAKISTAN, AND INDIA. Now that's mainstream.

Oh, but you won't admit it. You don't have to.
It's easy to spot though.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> So "caring" about innocent people dying means sitting on your ass all day in front of an internet messageboard churning out article after article ?
> 
> It doesn't get any better



That which Sally does ---at an advanced age---is certainly a LOT BETTER than your
vulgar filth and lies and sophistry In support of the  barbarity that OBVIOUSLY TURNS YOU ON.    coyote


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Forester said:


> You're completely psychotic to think I'm part of ANY group.  Hasbara technique.
> We all know the Zionists salivate at the thought of coercing the Americans to bomb Iran for them...so keep dishing dirt on Iran.
> 
> But most Americans don't really worry about Iran or the way they spank their kids or WHATEVER! Who cares?? It's not OUR AGENDA like it is your personal mission to forge opinion of Israel as a VICTIM.
> ...




for someone NOT A MEMBER OF A GROUP-----you certainly have no problem
employing that typical  ISLAMO NAZI  
   *****WE ALL KNOW*****
technique.         My all time fave use of 
the  "we all know"   and  "everyone knows.."
thing came about decades ago when a Pakistani trained in an islamo Nazi medical school INFORMED me that then governor of New York ---Nelson Rockefeller   "is a jew"----
I said  "no---protestant"     HE INSISTED---
"WE all know'       I said  "how do you know"----      answer
     ****HE HAS ALL THAT MONEY---WE
  ALL KNOW THAT IT'S  THE JEWs WHO HAVE ALL THE MONEY""""

I was impressed----a Pakistani----a land with
no jews and this guy could quote ---chapter and verse ---the Nazi propaganda I read as a child.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
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this is a messageboard,   coyote.     at no point did sally ever TELL YOU to go out and aid the dying.      Of course since she is not a vulgar disgusting person she did not describe you as  "SITTING ON YOUR ASS ALL DAY"--------      She very properly questions your PREOCCUPATION  with shitting on jews whilst defending the Islamic murders of hundreds of millions.       I will help you out on this one with a very apt  example.    -----the recent murders  in Israel-----three Israeli boys and a kind of-----apparent retribution murder of a muslim teen.        YOU ---in your usual vulgar style-----referred to the jewish reaction to the murder of a muslim teen as 
  "DISGUSTING"   -----whereas the muslim reaction to the murder of the jewish boys--according to YOU was---'loving and sympathetic'       so what was the reaction??
The jewish reaction was an immediate arrest and imprisonment of the murdering jews.----
The "loving and sympathetic"  reaction of the
muslims was  "HIDE THE MURDERERS"----
Israel found them-----now they have been sent to  JANNAH as celebrated heroes of
YOUR  HOLY CAUSE----THE FUNERAL OF THE HEROES ATTRACTED THOUANDS OF HAPPY ORGIASTIC ADMIRERS OF THE FILTH YOU SO LOVE.......


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## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > So "caring" about innocent people dying means sitting on your ass all day in front of an internet messageboard churning out article after article ?
> ...



What I find amusing is that Coyote doesn't tell all those who are anti-Israel/anti-Jews that they sit on their backsides all day long posting.  Perhaps Coyote can check out the times these people are on these forums as against the times I am on these forums.  And how much time does it take for me to cut and paste an article when most of my articles just come from one news site?  As you can guess, IRosie, Coyote would rather I not post any articles telling what Muslims are doing.  She would just rather that this particular forum die out.  Hey, maybe Coyote's friends have hemorrhoids  posting hours and hours on these various forums.


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> *To prevent homegrown Islamist radicalism, drop the media hysteria*
> The disproportionate attention given to radicalism feeds into ongoing misrepresentations of Muslims in the west. How about engaging with the Muslim community instead?
> 
> To prevent homegrown Islamist radicalism drop the media hysteria Kavita Bedford Comment is free theguardian.com



Sheeesh--------shades of father Charles
Coughlin and his fellow American pro Nazis of the 1930s-----_DA JOOOOS IS WAR MONGERING----hitler aint so bad


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## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
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> > Coyote said:
> ...




sally-----coyote does not like either you or me-------we know too much.      When a person gets into    "you sit on your ass..." 
   it is clear that the person is very concerned
   about the dissemination of truth

      do you think she posts standing on her head?


----------



## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



Oh, IRosie, forrester is just a two-bit anti-Semitic  cucaracha estúpido who crawls out of the woodwork every now and then.  You really think he cares about anyone being killed???


----------



## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Forester said:
> 
> 
> > You're completely psychotic to think I'm part of ANY group.  Hasbara technique.
> ...


Rosie, your parents/leaders made you read Nazi propaganda as a child?  Well that explains it then, the reason why you're "somewhat" radicalized. 
What else did they read to you? Haven't they ever heard of Mother Goose, etc.?  
We outsiders need to know more about Jewish upbringings (assuming you're Jewish)  to determine why things "are what they are".


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

[QUOTE="Sally, post: 9866743, member: 36253"

Oh, IRosie, forrester is just a two-bit anti-Semitic  cucaracha estúpido who crawls out of the woodwork every now and then.  You really think he cares about anyone being killed???[/QUOTE]

sally-----the Nazi literature that was all over my little childhood town   WAY back in the 1950s was    UTTERLY PRO ARAB AS IN
   "DA JOOOOS IS PERSECUTING THEM"

 at that time----the local inebriates did not know what an arab was-------in fact when I first encountered it----neither did I----being about nine years old.    I learned over time---
forrester probably still does not know


----------



## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Guess you don't care to respond to the "double-speak" accusation? What, you're speechless?  Snake.


----------



## aris2chat (Sep 26, 2014)

You could go to some of the news sites online and comment on each article and wait for an email saying that some has replied or go back and try to find you comment and anything that comes after.
On a message board like this it is easier to get your news and comment in one place.
I usually tweet articles that I find, which sends a link to facebook automatically, but when you have 100 or so posting everything from jokes to appointments it is time consuming going through all the tweets and posts on your pages.
I read a lot of sources and to copy and paste each one onto a message board take dedication.  I find things that are good topics to stimulate a conversation.  Some are little more that a head line with a few details, usually yearly sources of something.  It might take days for more information to come out, at least to mainstream news.  I have a few news sources that "follow" me and use sites that I find in their stories.
I can't imagine everyone on this board spending as much time reading papers/sites from around the world (some not in english) everyday.  The middle east is only one of the topics I like to read up on.  The one closest to my heart.  I like science, medicine, environment and archeology as well.
I know Sally follows some of my links from twitter or facebook.  She also finds form other sources and her own searches.  It is good for people to read from a variety of opinions and sites.  From tweets you are sent, emails/egroups from friends, radio and even faxes.  They should be cross checked with other reports if possible, but some are truly live events or hot off the wire.  It might take minutes or days for a well reported story to be mainstream news.
Sally is doing every one a service.  It keeps her mind busy and she likes to see the comments of other people to the stories.  Let her be.  You can just read or ignore what she posts but they should be left for everyone to have a chance to see them.
We all through experience or taught prejudices have our point of view.  We all have an opinion about posts, and even posters.  Eventually we might even get so fed up we block a person, that does not mean that posts should not be on the forum.  The more information, the more opinions, the better we can form our own opinions and hopefully some will be creative enough to offer up constructive ideas as solutions.
We don't need the cursing and we could use fewer snide attack on posters but the rest should be edited by the read not management.  We don't have to respond to each post on each thread but we should have the option to read and post when we have something to say or some across something new that is happening.


----------



## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Forester said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



As far as I am concerned, Senor Cucaracha Estúpido, when he crawls out of the woodwork and comes to this forum, has really not contributed anything except showing rational readers that all he is is a two-bit anti-Semite.


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Forester said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Forester said:
> ...



No----as a kid I was an AVID reader----my parents did not have lots of books in the house------I got tired of reading my mom's 
book of  THE POEMS OF SHELLEY.     My brothers did have superman comics.     ----
but the whole town was LITTERED with little pamphets about  JEWS -------yes I am a jew--but never attended any sectarian instruction---not even the standard ----two hours a week
"Hebrew school" ----and never went to a summer camp.     I got the pamphlets from ----the discards of your fellow Nazis       I will say about my mom----she was liberal about my need for READING------she did not even interfere when I found a copy of LOLITA at age eleven--------for the record----I did not see anything wrong with the book-------I was clueless.      It might also interest you that as a kid----I was in church sunday school with my protestant playmate a lot more than I  was in a synagogue-----as   a child.--------gee you are dim


----------



## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> [QUOTE="Sally, post: 9866743, member: 36253"
> 
> Oh, IRosie, forrester is just a two-bit anti-Semitic  cucaracha estúpido who crawls out of the woodwork every now and then.  You really think he cares about anyone being killed???



sally-----the *Nazi literature that was all over my little childhood town   WAY back in the 1950s was    UTTERLY PRO ARAB AS IN
   "DA JOOOOS IS PERSECUTING THEM*"

at that time----the local inebriates did not know what an arab was-------in fact when I first encountered it----neither did I----being about nine years old.    I learned over time---
forrester probably still does not know[/QUOTE]
Hell there was an Arab guy who owned a liquor store in my hometown. He never broke any laws or caused trouble. THAT JUST BLOWS YOUR MIND DOESN'T IT?


----------



## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Forester said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > [QUOTE="Sally, post: 9866743, member: 36253"
> ...


Hell there was an Arab guy who owned a liquor store in my hometown. He never broke any laws or caused trouble. THAT JUST BLOWS YOUR MIND DOESN'T IT?[/QUOTE]

What are you finding so troublesome about what she read?  We had Nazis in New York too in Yorkville on 86th Street in Manhattan.  Maybe some of those old Nazis are still alive.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 26, 2014)

AquaAthena said:


> ISIS is an acronym for _Islamic_ State of Iraq and Syria.


And?


It means nothing.


That they call themselves 'Islamic' doesn't mean they're representative of Islam, or comport with Islamic dogma.


Islamic scholars and leaders denouncing ISIS render the 'argument' you and others on the right attempt to make, that terrorists who happen to be Muslim are 'representative' of all Islam and Muslims, a fallacy.


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Forester said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > [QUOTE="Sally, post: 9866743, member: 36253"
> ...


Hell there was an Arab guy who owned a liquor store in my hometown. He never broke any laws or caused trouble. THAT JUST BLOWS YOUR MIND DOESN'T IT?[/QUOTE]

why should it   "blow my mind"   ???    Your
comment  indicates just what an idiot you are.
I lived in a  NAZI TOWN.      My family was among the first jewish family in town.   The place was LILY WHITE  and------generally
"restricted"        Chances are at the we got our little house------as POST WAR BABY BOOM FAMILY ----with VA mortgage-----the wasps would not have allowed an "arab" in.

HOWEVER    things did change rapidly-----and nearby---were lots of  "arabs" ---so many Syrian and Lebanese Christians that I ASSUMED  that both Lebanon and Syria were Christian countries

circa----1975----long after I left----my mom told me that she had to rescue a new comer to town----a Pakistani family moved in and the local children of the Nazis  were chasing a little Pakistani kid and screaming  "n*gg*r.  ----when she got to them they screamed at her    OLD JEW

  some things never change---including you --forrester


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > ISIS is an acronym for _Islamic_ State of Iraq and Syria.
> ...



in order to know if a person acts in accordance with Islamic dogma---one has
to know Islamic dogma.    I would be happy to discuss it with you.     My husband is a jew born in ----a  SHARIAH SOCIETY---using the same  DOGMA   that   ISIS supports.
From his relatives------he was rescued from
that  shariah cesspit as a baby----I did learn the details of-----Islamic dogma as it pertains to non muslims in an Islamic society.

Thus   ---I am not at all surprised about the DOGMA  of isis-------it is classical islam


----------



## skye (Sep 26, 2014)

Don't forget Saudi Arabia is a   major  sponsor of the rebel-terrorist groups fighting in Syria and Iraq against the Shiites.

Now the Islamic State is so powerful and independent that  Sunni Saudi Arabia and this particular Saudi  sheik is frightened that IS poses a real threat to Saudi Arabia itself, hence the current criticism.

Islamic State does represent the current version of Islam at its most frightening and aggressive, make no mistake. Pious staments from sheiks and others will make little difference.

Of course the useful donkeys still don't understand what is really happening and still think that the Islamic State is not Islamic...whatever that is supposed to mean!


----------



## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Forester said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



why should it   "blow my mind"   ???    Your
comment  indicates just what an idiot you are.
I lived in a  NAZI TOWN.      My family was among the first jewish family in town.   The place was LILY WHITE  and------generally
"restricted"        Chances are at the we got our little house------as POST WAR BABY BOOM FAMILY ----with VA mortgage-----the wasps would not have allowed an "arab" in.

HOWEVER    things did change rapidly-----and nearby---were lots of  "arabs" ---so many Syrian and Lebanese Christians that I ASSUMED  that both Lebanon and Syria were Christian countries

circa----1975----long after I left----my mom told me that she had to rescue a new comer to town----a Pakistani family moved in and the local children of the Nazis  were chasing a little Pakistani kid and screaming  "n*gg*r.  ----when she got to them they screamed at her    OLD JEW

  some things never change---including you --forrester[/QUOTE]
Hey don't blame me for your biases and prejudices. I was raised "colorblind" thank you very much.  That's why I can see through you and Sally's scheme to poison the public's view of peaceful Arabs.


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> Forester said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



What are you finding so troublesome about what she read?  We had Nazis in New York too in Yorkville on 86th Street in Manhattan.  Maybe some of those old Nazis are still alive.[/QUOTE]

some of the stuff I read as a kid----came to my little town-----not in new York-------from that very area------in Manhattan.     The entire HUDSON valley  was chock full of nazis


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Forester said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Forester said:
> ...


Hey don't blame me for your biases and prejudices. I was raised "colorblind" thank you very much.  That's why I can see through you and Sally's scheme to poison the public's view of peaceful Arabs.[/QUOTE]


what a joke you are    FORRESTER----you were  "COLOR BLIND"   like my Nazi neighbors.------your Nazism is obvious to me----I grew up with people like you----and KNOW the lingo


----------



## Forester (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Forester said:
> 
> 
> > You're completely psychotic to think I'm part of ANY group.  Hasbara technique.
> ...





Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...





irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Forester said:
> ...


You have NO idea what you are talking about. You were taught to fear and hate from a young age. 
That's YOUR lingo, not mine. You're using the standard pro-Israeli tactic to demonize the other side, it's clear. All the while you're wrong.
That's why there's no hope for ME peace with all the OLD JEWS spewing their fears/prejudices to the younger citizens.  
To your embarrassment, your and my great great great great grandkids will probably fix this ME/2 state Israel problem. The Old Guard has failed.


----------



## Tresha91203 (Sep 26, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> I don't understand why people  don't get this. I really don't understand. It is a simple concept. Just because these people, groups like ISIS, SAY they are acting in the name of Islam, that does not mean they are. Just because very misguided and extremist people join ISIS and fight with them, that does not mean those people represent Islam.  They are misguided, they are crazy, they are terrorists and extremists...they do not represent mainstream, modern day Islam. It is a very, very simple concept. IMO, anyone who doesn't get it just doesn't want to.
> 
> I can go out and say I am fighting for Christ and mow down a dozen people with a machine gun. That does not mean I represent Christ; it just means I say I do. Anyone interested in truth knows my actions do not represent Christ.



It is the same reason people said abortion bombers were christians. When it fits "your" ideology (your being general, referring to the many people who think this way), lump them all together. When it goes against "your" ideology, distance the offender from the group.

Some wymyn view all men as pigs; some athiests view all religious as morons or tyrants; and on and on. Us vs them. People prefer to look outward.


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Forester said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Forester said:
> ...




ROFLMAO ----you islamo Nazi pigs are all the same


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



I would suggest Sally deal with her own hemmerhoids


aris2chat said:


> You could go to some of the news sites online and comment on each article and wait for an email saying that some has replied or go back and try to find you comment and anything that comes after.
> On a message board like this it is easier to get your news and comment in one place.
> I usually tweet articles that I find, which sends a link to facebook automatically, but when you have 100 or so posting everything from jokes to appointments it is time consuming going through all the tweets and posts on your pages.
> I read a lot of sources and to copy and paste each one onto a message board take dedication.  I find things that are good topics to stimulate a conversation.  Some are little more that a head line with a few details, usually yearly sources of something.  It might take days for more information to come out, at least to mainstream news.  I have a few news sources that "follow" me and use sites that I find in their stories.
> ...



Why don't you suggest to Sally that she stop attacking others?  I started this thread as something positive.  She started the attacks. I responded POSITIVELY to her nice thread on the Syrian man feeding stray cats and she starts the attacks.

She likes to see the comments?  I'd like to hear that from her because from what I"ve seen *she attacks those who disagree* equating them with terrorists and claiming they are unconcerned or uncaring or making comments about their employment.

I enjoy a variety of topics.  And I try to treat others as they treat me.  I appreciate a variety of view points and even enjoy some of Sally's threads.  But regardless of what I post she attacks the person - not the submect matter.  It gets old.


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence NPR
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We found one!!


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence NPR
> ...



More than one of you read the articles.


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

skye said:


> Don't forget Saudi Arabia is a   major  sponsor of the rebel-terrorist groups fighting in Syria and Iraq against the Shiites.
> 
> Now the Islamic State is so powerful and independent that  Sunni Saudi Arabia and this particular Saudi  sheik is frightened that IS poses a real threat to Saudi Arabia itself, hence the current criticism.
> 
> ...




So you consider Islamic clerics, scholars and leaders to be "useful donkeys"?  I suppose you are some sort of expert on Islam?


----------



## irosie91 (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



I suggest you do a bit of checking on your spelling   ----more important---you are not what you imagine yourself to be----you are a disgusting bigoted bitch.     In fact,   you regularly attack sally in a very vulgar manner---consistent with the filth that you are


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 26, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > ISIS is an acronym for _Islamic_ State of Iraq and Syria.
> ...



They are as much of a muslim as any man who claims to be woman.


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



Sally is a proper name and should be capitalized.  If you are going to be a spelling Nazi - at least try and make sure your own posts are free of error.


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Yay.. a few..Should I be excited?


----------



## skye (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget Saudi Arabia is a   major  sponsor of the rebel-terrorist groups fighting in Syria and Iraq against the Shiites.
> ...




It's not a matter of being an expert, it's a matter of understanding the complex issues, which clearly some  don't.

"Useful donkeys"   are people from the West who swallow Islamic  propaganda hook, line and sinker.They are merely helping the enemy.


----------



## dilloduck (Sep 26, 2014)

skye said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



So which Muslim is telling the truth ? Which can be trusted in this instance ?


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

* Hundreds of Muslim Scholars Sign Letter Officially Denouncing ISIS as ‘UnIslamic’ *
September 25, 2014 2:22 pm· 
Hundreds of Muslim Scholars Sign Letter Officially Denouncing ISIS as 8216 UnIslamic 8217 









> A newly-drafted letter, crafted and signed by 125 Sunni Muslim scholars and dignitaries from around the world, is directed at ISIS’s self-described “Caliph Ibrahim,” also better known as Al-Baghdadi.
> 
> The letter decries the so-called “Caliph’s” criminality, and the misnamed “Islamic State’s” crimes against humanity.
> 
> ...


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

skye said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



...and clearly, you don't.


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

dilloduck said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Someday I hope to see massive protest against these muslim extremist...I wont hold my breath


----------



## saveliberty (Sep 26, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


>



Might be the praying five times a day to Allah thing?

...or using the Koran to justify their actions.

...or calling it Jihad.

...or calling themselves Muslims.

...or instituting Sharia Law on their captured territories.

You'd think a reasonable person would at least consider them possibly Muslim.  Not Luddly...


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> * Hundreds of Muslim Scholars Sign Letter Officially Denouncing ISIS as ‘UnIslamic’ *
> September 25, 2014 2:22 pm·
> Hundreds of Muslim Scholars Sign Letter Officially Denouncing ISIS as 8216 UnIslamic 8217
> 
> ...


Shia protesting against Sunni is that rare?...a couple people anyway... You're reaching


----------



## saveliberty (Sep 26, 2014)

It is a good sign at least one Islamic leader is standing up.  Hopefully others will follow.  Hey look at Jroc's post!


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Britain s Largest Mosques Condemn Un-Islamic ISIS Radicals

*Britain’s Largest Mosques Condemn “Un-Islamic” ISIS Radicals*


> Britain’s 12 largest mosques announced on Wednesday they “condemn” the actions of militant group Islamic State today, telling Newsweek the group is “un-Islamic to the core”.
> 
> "Leading Islamic centres condemn the inexcusable actions of the group calling itself “Islamic State” (IS), and the indefensible murders of James Foley and Steven Sotloff. We hope that any other hostages who may be held by IS will be released unharmed," the statement reads
> 
> "We urge our youth not to contemplate going to Iraq or Syria to join IS or any similar groups that spread violence and hatred, nor to give them any kind of support whatsoever."


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*British Imams appeal to ISIS terrorists to release aid worker Alan Henning*

British Imams appeal to ISIS terrorists to release aid worker Alan Henning Daily Mail Online



> More than 100 Muslim leaders have signed a statement pleading with ISIS to release British aid worker Alan Henning.
> 
> Mr Henning is currently facing death at the hands of ISIS's British executioner 'Jihadi John' and was paraded before the cameras in a video of fellow hostage David Haines's murder.
> 
> Dozens of Imams from around the UK today criticised the terror group as 'monsters' for the brutal murder of Mr Haines and insisted killing Mr Henning would be 'un-Islamic'.


----------



## skye (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



We could spend all day swapping childish  abuse.... but it's rather pointless.


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Britain s Largest Mosques Condemn Un-Islamic ISIS Radicals
> 
> *Britain’s Largest Mosques Condemn “Un-Islamic” ISIS Radicals*
> 
> ...


So *British muslims* have to "urge their youth" not to go cut off people's heads and rape women?....Still not impressed sorry


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*‘Not in my name’: French Muslims rally to denounce ISIS beheadings*
* Not in my name French Muslims rally to denounce ISIS beheadings RT News*

*



*



> Hundreds of Muslims have gathered near the Grand Mosque in Paris to condemn the execution of the French tourist, Herve Gourdel, by Islamic State-linked jihadists and the rise of Islamophobia caused by it.
> 
> The demonstrators were holding up placards, reading “"Tribute to Herve Gourdel” and "God is merciful" as well as signs with NotInMyName hastag.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

> *Hundreds of Muslims have gathered* near the Grand Mosque in Paris to condemn the execution of the French tourist, Herve Gourdel, by Islamic State-linked jihadists and the rise of Islamophobia caused by it.
> The demonstrators were holding up placards, reading “"Tribute to Herve Gourdel” and "God is merciful" as well as signs with NotInMyName hastag.
> The crowd chanted _“Islam for peace,”_ with French officials and representatives from the Parisian Arab community present at the event.
> _
> "We French Muslims say stop to barbarism, stop to terrorism,"_ Dalil Boubakeur, head of the French Council of the Muslim Faith, said during the rally.




100s? 1.6 billion muslims in the world, and we get a protest with hundreds? not very impressive


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*German Muslims hold day of protest against ISIS jihadists*






http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/2e/2f/00/00/german-muslims-protest-isis.si.jpg


> Some two thousand mosques across Germany were called upon by top Muslim clerics to use their Friday rituals to rally against the Islamic State and speak out against beheadings in Syria and Iraq.
> 
> On Friday, the chairman of the Central Council of Muslims in Germany, Aiman Mazyek, told the country’s Muslim population that they shouldn’t stay quiet about the misuse of the Islamic faith, describing the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) as “_in truth terrorists and murderers_" who have dragged Islam “_through the mud_.”


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Muslims Protest Islamic State In Norway

*Muslims Protest Islamic State In Norway*



> STOCKHOLM (AP) — Norway's prime minister and other politicians have joined Muslim leaders and thousands of other people for a demonstration in Oslo against radical Islamists.
> 
> Monday's rally was an initiative by young Norwegian Muslims who wanted to show a united front against Islamic State militants in Syria and Iraq and their sympathizers in Norway.
> 
> ...


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*Hundreds of Calgary Muslims protest ISIS violence in Iraq*
*Sunni, Shia Muslims gathered outside Calgary City Hall to protest sectarian violence in Iraq*

*



*


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Muslims Protest Islamic State In Norway
> 
> *Muslims Protest Islamic State In Norway*
> 
> ...



Well for every protest with hundreds or even couple thousand I can find protest of tens of thousands, even 100's of thousands wanting the infidels dead . I have a test for you, draw a cartoon offending the "Profit mohammed" and see have many you get protesting ready to kill


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*Muslims in Europe rally against extremist violence*

Muslims in Europe rally against extremist violence - CBS News


> The same debate played out elsewhere. The hashtag campaign #notinmyname - or #pasenmonnom in French - initiated by British Muslims who wanted to show their opposition to extremist violence, spawned a #MuslimApologies backlash by those who thought the sense of regret was overwrought. Tweets "apologized" for algebra, soap and coffee.
> 
> "Nowhere does the Quran say other religions or nations must be attacked. Cutting people's heads off is really the most despicable. If airstrikes can stop these fundamentalist, aggressive ideas from spreading, I am all for it," said 65-year-old Enes Mustafic.
> 
> ...


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Muslims Protest Islamic State In Norway
> ...



Nothing will be enough for you Jroc - you realize that don't you?  There is nothing that they can do that will be enough.


----------



## Sally (Sep 26, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Britain s Largest Mosques Condemn Un-Islamic ISIS Radicals
> ...



I'm not impressed either.  So many innocent have been killed in months past, and all of a sudden these Muslims are protesting against ISIS.  The Muslims certainly were quick enough to rise up and protest against Israel right away where Gaza was concerned so how come they couldn't have quickly protested against ISIS when ISIS started up with their killings?


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> *Muslims in Europe rally against extremist violence*
> 
> Muslims in Europe rally against extremist violence - CBS News
> 
> ...


Are you public relations?..... Those protest are pretty pathetic actually. Do  you have any in the Middle East?


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Oklahoma Muslims Rally against ISIS KFOR.com

*Oklahoma Muslims Rally against ISIS*


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Sally said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Coyote is on a mission....The muslim religion is just like any other religion


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)




----------



## dilloduck (Sep 26, 2014)

The verdict is in---since no muslim can be believed we have to assume they are all lying.


----------



## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Oklahoma Muslims Rally against ISIS KFOR.com
> 
> *Oklahoma Muslims Rally against ISIS*



WOW!!!.....a dozen people


----------



## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*Global Protests Against ISIS Attack on Christians*
*Global Protests Against ISIS Attack on Christians*


> COPENHAGEN, Denmark — Protests are ramping up around the world against Islamic extremists who have purged Iraqi Christians from lands they have inhabited for 2,000 years.
> 
> Demonstrations against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) have been held in England, Canada, Germany, France, Unites States, Sweden, Denmark and Australia since the militia began threatening Christians in Mosul to convert or be killed and blew up a tomb believed to be the burial place of the Biblical prophet Jonah last week. ISIS took control of Iraq’s second-largest city, where Christians have lived for the past 2,000 years, in June.
> 
> In many protests the demonstrators displayed the Arabic letter "N" for "Nasrani," which means Christian in Arabic. With slogans such as “Save the Christians of Iraq" and “Stop ISIS!” the protests have also attracted many Arab and Kurdish Sunni and Shia Muslims, Yezidis, Faylis and other minorities showing solidarity with persecuted Christians.


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## dilloduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Oklahoma Muslims Rally against ISIS KFOR.com
> ...



So you really don't want to hear from any moderate Muslims condemning ISIS ?


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## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

dilloduck said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Sure... Doesn't mean much in the big scheme of thing does it? Are there any in the middle east?


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

*The Arab World's Version of the Ice Bucket Challenge: Burning ISIS Flags*
The Arab World s Version of the Ice Bucket Challenge Burning ISIS Flags Mother Jones



> On Saturday, three Lebanese young men in Beirut protested the Islamic State by burning the extremist group's flag, a black banner emblazoned with the Muslim tenet "there is no god but God and Muhammed is his prophet." The teens then posted a video of the flag-burning online, exhorting others to do the same to demonstrate their opposition to the movement led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. In recent weeks, the Islamic State has allegedly beheaded a Lebanese army sergeant and kidnapped about 20 Lebanese soldiers. The flag-burning campaign, modeled on the viral "Ice Bucket Challenge," quickly took off on social media under the hashtag #BurnISISFlagChallenge. "I nominate the whole world to #Burn_ISIS_Flag_Challenge. You have 24 hours. GO!!" wrote one Lebanese YouTube user.


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

No2 ISIS protest held outside Saudi Embassy in London Demotix.com

*No2 ISIS" protest held outside Saudi Embassy in London*

*



*


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## dilloduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Jroc said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



ahhhh  now it needs to be a moderate Muslim from the middle east ?


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## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> *The Arab World's Version of the Ice Bucket Challenge: Burning ISIS Flags*
> The Arab World s Version of the Ice Bucket Challenge Burning ISIS Flags Mother Jones
> 
> 
> ...



3 men!!!..OMG it's a revolution!!!


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Demonstrators hold signs during a protest against militants of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria group in Arbil, north of Baghdad July 24, 2014. (Reuters)


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## Jroc (Sep 26, 2014)

I think they aget a


Coyote said:


> No2 ISIS protest held outside Saudi Embassy in London Demotix.com
> 
> *No2 ISIS" protest held outside Saudi Embassy in London*
> 
> ...




I think they get a better turn out protesting Jews....

*England: 100,000 march in London for pro-Palestine rally

*


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

Anti-ISIS protesters gathered in Iran's capital Tehran 





Anti-ISIS protest in Kashmir


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## flacaltenn (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


>



Of course.. 1/2 of Arab Muslims want to kill the other half..
You'll find PLENTY of Muslims in Iraq (and especially SHia Iran) to speak out about getting CONQUERED by ISIS.. Nothing surprising or revealing there.

The KKK was/is NOT a Global operation with 20,000 affiliates. All interested in establishing orthodox Sharia practices and theocracies.
You've got EVERY COUNTRY in the Middle East lit up with conflict and a large portion of Africa effectively run by extremist Muslim gangs.

Don't really care about academics at the moment unless they are DOING something about the raping, abductions, and pillaging that is sweeping the globe...


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

A number of countries are cracking down on extremist groups.

Indonesia cracks down on suspected jihadists as Islamic State fears mount - Washington Times

Saudi Arabia intensifies crackdown on extremist groups World news The Guardian

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323864604579067223037486970


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Coyote said:
> 
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> >
> ...



What do you actually expect them to *do*?  They aren't a monolithic entity. Half those countries have conflicts that are more complicated than just religion, have ineffective, corrupt, incompetent or non-existant government (Africa in particular) and yet the entire Muslim world is called on to condemn it and when they do it's not enough?


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## flacaltenn (Sep 26, 2014)

News was they killed that idiot leader of Boko Harum.. Think those girls are coming home now? The government THERE is impotent to deal with these gangs.. Same in Somalia, Yemen and newly disfigured Libya.

The list of ORGANIZED muslim govts that have the capability to CONTROL these bastards is getting smaller every day Coyote.. 

Is it OUR problem? Pretty sure it is not... UNLESS we don't pre-empt threats to America.. ISIL declared war on US. We should declare war right back. Because last time some cheezy rebel group declared war on us and we did NOTHING --- you KNOW how that turned out..


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## Coyote (Sep 26, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> News was they killed that idiot leader of Boko Harum.. Think those girls are coming home now? The government THERE is impotent to deal with these gangs.. Same in Somalia, Yemen and newly disfigured Libya.
> 
> The list of ORGANIZED muslim govts that have the capability to CONTROL these bastards is getting smaller every day Coyote..
> 
> Is it OUR problem? Pretty sure it is not... UNLESS we don't pre-empt threats to America.. ISIL declared war on US. We should declare war right back. Because last time some cheezy rebel group declared war on us and we did NOTHING --- you KNOW how that turned out..



I don't disagree - in most of those examples we are dealing with failed states.  We can declair war on ISIL but it will amount to little unless the nations in that area throw in their support to show that they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.  Otherwise we're just another foreign invader and it will happen again and again.


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## flacaltenn (Sep 26, 2014)

Coyote said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Our crappy foreign policy has a perfect record of making this worse. We've bombed enough countries in my lifetime. 

What I expect them to do -- is to REORGANIZED under the structure that kept them from tearing each other to bits for 60 years. And that is to find a good strong despotic leader that can FORCE secularized govt and not allow these groups to fester. We ought to kiss Assad's Ass right now and beg forgiveness. And ask him nicely not to be such a tool to Iran..

And we should have our heads examined if any American policy-maker talks about bringing open Democracy to these countries...


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## JimH52 (Sep 27, 2014)

Yes, I know many Muslims who find ISIS abhorrent and basically a terrorist group that is hiding behind Islam.


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## Two Thumbs (Sep 27, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence NPR
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let us know when he actually does something


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## irosie91 (Sep 27, 2014)

dilloduck said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



to what statement do you refer?


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## irosie91 (Sep 27, 2014)

JimH52 said:


> Yes, I know many Muslims who find ISIS abhorrent and basically a terrorist group that is hiding behind Islam.



if you know any number of muslims---you will find that lots of muslims consider this or that OTHER group of muslims to be  "not muslims".     I encountered lots of muslims long ago-----before islam was an issue in the USA----it was never an issue in my life----until---I ENCOUNTERED real live muslims who hailed from various different countries--educated new comers to the USA----from India,  Pakistan,  two from Afghanistan  ---Iran---and various arab countries.  etc    My first observation was muslims HATE hindus---my second----Iranians HATE arabs and Pakistanis   (and indian muslims)  ---then I also discovered that turks hate arabs----and are generally indifferent to most other people.
That this or that muslim hates ISIS ----is to be expected.    Saudis also hate Isis----Isis is sunni so Iranians hate isis.   ----in yemen---there is active violence ongoing in the capital city  SANAA right now-----in general---over isis and over the general hatred sunnis and
Shiites bear each other   (in that country north and south hate each other too)


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## irosie91 (Sep 27, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
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coyote----you are DESPERATE ----are your hemmeroids itchy?


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 29, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Coyote is on a mission....The muslim religion is just like any other religion




 Well, Coyote does know one thing about Islam, anyway -- she absolutely has to defend it.

By defending Islam with such vigor, she earns cred as "tolerant".   Sure, it is an ignorant tolerance, lacks any semblance of moral reasoning, intellectual honesty or rational method, but for apologists, those sorts of things do not matter. All that matters is appearance and whether or not the statements are received with approval by those from which they seek such.  To a dogmatic leftist, the conditioned response of defending Islam is an act of solidarity and helps provide a sense of belonging to the club. "Hard leftists do this. I am a hard left, therefore I will do it to"

At its heart, these sorts of apologetics only reflect upon an extremely conformist nature, as the very purpose it serves is to align ones views with that of others. People derive comfort from falling in line, especially inasmuch as there are so many disincentives that act to punish intellectual clarity, independence, or original thought.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote is on a mission....The muslim religion is just like any other religion
> ...



I will say little-----but say it I must------those people who like to say   "all  PEOPLES  (as in
groups of people)    are the same"-----are extremely stupid.....those who so engage----
are generally  self righteous scum


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> I will say little-----but say it I must------those people who like to say   "all  PEOPLES  (as in
> groups of people)    are the same"-----are extremely stupid.....those who so engage----
> are generally  self righteous scum



 I usually see it as a combination of stupidity and dishonesty, myself.

 All a person has to do is ask some basic questions such as "what percentage of Christians or Jews think people should be killed if they leave their religion and what percentage of Muslims think so?"

 The dishonesty comes in to play as soon as the answers reveal anything that contradicts the assumptions as people rush to explain away the results.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > I will say little-----but say it I must------those people who like to say   "all  PEOPLES  (as in
> ...



yes------but then again---sometimes  "no".....
it is very difficult to determine what people "believe"  or "think" ----lots of people if ASKED----will simply answer in the way they
think they are SUPPOSED TO.      I saw a
DRAMATIC   transformation in that which muslims I know or knew or at least conversed-----were willing to say------after 9-11-01.  
BIG CHANGE        and I have no doubt that a poll ----would reflect a similar BIG CHANGE.
I believe that such changes  "happen"   in lots of situations with lots of people    

Polls are very limited in usefulness

the only conversations I trust as being a reflection of what "muslims think"----are those I had before 9-11   and in some cases  BEFORE the late  1980s       For Iranians---before  1979.     In some cases---the only conversations I had with muslims regarding
jews----are those I had with muslims who
thought I am Christian..      I got it all so well from conversations----that  ISIS is absolutely no surprise to me------I predict some action
in Saudi Arabia   (and have been so predicting for several years now-----you read it here)


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote is on a mission....The muslim religion is just like any other religion
> ...



What a bunch of drivel.


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

Young Muslims speak out against ISIS on social media - ANN



> Over the last two weeks, young Muslims from various countries have been posting messages on Twitter and other social media platforms denouncing ISIS' actions as un-Islamic, with the hashtag #notinmyname.
> 
> "ISIS does not represent Islam, we condemn it," Malaysian Aizat Amdan (@MuhdAizatAmdan) said in a tweet on Sept 18.
> 
> ...




More and more of those "non-existent" Muslim groups protesting, demonstrating, speaking out....

there is a mad scramble to move the goal posts


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



what part of the  "bunch"  do you consider "drivel"??


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

*Muslim Scholars Make the Theological Case Against the Islamic State*

More than a hundred Muslim scholars and leaders from around the world released an open letter addressed to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Wednesday, telling the self-proclaimed caliph, in no uncertain terms, that the group's use of Islamic scripture is illegitimate and perverse.

Muslim Scholars Make the Theological Case Against the Islamic State VICE News


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Young Muslims speak out against ISIS on social media - ANN
> 
> 
> 
> ...




the  "UMMAH"  began engaging in internecine BLOODY conflict before the carcass of   AL NABI  was cold----logically one would expect the stuff to show up on
social network too.------what does it really mean in the context of intermuslim relation--
over the past  1400 years?    Isis is not for every muslim------iran is not for every muslim---Jordan is certainly not for every muslim


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Young Muslims speak out against ISIS on social media - ANN
> 
> 
> 
> ...




ROFLMAO----oh gee----I actually went to the site and read it------what a BUNCH OF DRIVEL   ---from Pakistan   "ISLAM TEACHS TOLERANCE AND COMPASSION"---which is why they execute Christians for touching the Koran----or giving a bible to a muslim---etc etc ------of course they also have been doing drive by HITS on Shiites for as long as I can remember------uhm----I first learned about it  about 45 years ago.--------near the time I objected to the   1/4 million rapes committed by the WEST PAKISTANI army at the behest of   muslim clerics


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## Sally (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Young Muslims speak out against ISIS on social media - ANN
> ...



I certainly wish the Pakistanis would protest to do away with those blasphemy laws.  What a way to get rid of a Christian neighbor that you don't like.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
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there is a problem------Pakistanis like having the option of   "getting rid of" -----they are big on "getting rid of"       Of all places they seem to be most at east "getting rid of"  Shiites      
Of those I have known----they would be delighted to   "get rid"   of hindus


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## Sally (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



I remember that Muslim poster living here in the States, but from a Western state in India, saying that she wanted to see 850 million Hindus eradicated just so Islam could rule India again.  Imagine wanting to see 850 million people done away with just so your religion could rule!!!


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## SAYIT (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence NPR
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, ISIS says they are Islamists but I am withholding opinion pending real action by the Muslim World in the war against ISIS.
So far a number of credible Muslim voices have condemned them - a hopeful sign - and the US is cooperating with a number of Mideast states on military action and on saving civilian lives. On the other hand Iran - a key ally of Syria - not only rejects joining the coalition, they mock Obama's strategy.

Farsnews

Iran rejects American request for cooperation against ISIS - CBS News


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence NPR
> ...



The problem with combatting ISIS is that there are many other complicated regional issues underlying forming a coalition.  Not joining a coalition doesn't necessarily mean they support or are even neutral to ISIS - but that there are other conflicts and alliences at hand.  It's a complicated mess


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



  Buddhists want to slaughter Muslims in Myanmar, Hindus in India are just as eager to slaughter Muslims.  Religions over all are not known for promoting tolerance. George Carlin said it best in one his routines..."Do you believe in God"?  "Yes"  "Good....do you believe in MY God"? "No".  BANG.


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## SAYIT (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
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It means that a key ally of Syria - one that could make a real difference in that mess - is willing toss Syria and hundreds of thousands of civilians under the bus for political purposes. Pathetic.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



nothing new       the very first muslim I knew well-----was from New Dehli---which is in the western part of  India------a kinda WELL DEVELOPED CITY.     He was obsessed with the GLORIOUS MOGHUL EMPIRE  and
regarding hindus he commented  "someday
we will drink their blood"-----I was horrified----
he could not understand why----afterall----
THEY MAKE IDOLS        That  "we"   had more floored-----I thought it might have
included  ME !!!!!!     (more than 40 years ago----seems like a standard-----but don't tell coyote)


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## High_Gravity (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> *Muslim Scholars Make the Theological Case Against the Islamic State*
> 
> More than a hundred Muslim scholars and leaders from around the world released an open letter addressed to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Wednesday, telling the self-proclaimed caliph, in no uncertain terms, that the group's use of Islamic scripture is illegitimate and perverse.
> 
> Muslim Scholars Make the Theological Case Against the Islamic State VICE News


 
Thats all fine and good, now how about some help on the ground to take those bastards out? last time I checked besides a few Gulf Countries doing air strikes its been the Kurds doing all the heavy lifting and sacrificing on the ground.


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## Sally (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



But it is your friendly Muslims who appear to be operating all over the place, not just in one location.


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



There are conflicts all over the world Sally,  not all of which involve Muslims as aggressors and not all of which are based on religious differences.


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > *Muslim Scholars Make the Theological Case Against the Islamic State*
> ...



It's a start.

People have been going on and on about "why don't they speak out, protest, yada yada yada".  They do.  They are.  Now the goal posts must be moved because it is quite obvious that meme isn't true.


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## High_Gravity (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


 
My question is how many of them are going to criticize us for the air strikes in Syria and Iraq and the Kurds for doing all the heavy lifting? Muslims criticized Saddam Hussein too but loathed us for invading Iraq.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



lets just FORGET  about history------an interesting factoid-----Jews ran from muslims to India.      Zoroastrians ran from muslims to India  ----in fact long before  MUSLIMS got there-------There is no history of hindus killing jews or Zoroastrians-------to this day.   but muslims have been killing jews and Zoroastrians in the Indian subcontinent for more than 1000 years------and ----historians estimate   100 million hindus in their first 100 years in the indian subcontinent.    A very interesting factoid----there still exists UNDER a mosque----a synagogue----in Lahore Pakistan----decorative elements and materials were incorporated into the mosque------from the synagogue-----yet ancient synagogues STILL STAND  in Mumbai and Kerala.    Lets not mention the
sacred Buddhist art of Afghanistan.   So the Buddhists finally managed to get angry after 1000 years.....gee         really makes a case for the virtue of being  "slow to anger"


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




so?    this discussion is about  conflict in the middle east which IS galvanized by religious
differences.       I would like to lose 15 lbs-----
it is not ALL related to pizza-----just most of it


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



We criticize our Presidents - god knows I despised Bush, and other despise Obama - but I don't think any of us would support or thank Putin for invading us and imposing "regime change".  Few countries want foreign interference or troops on their soil.  It might be a dictator, and they might be happy accepting arms - but troops and invasion are a whole 'nother issue.  I'm sure we will get some criticism for airstrikes.  I think that's just the way it goes.  No matter what happens, air strikes kill non-combatants and that puts pressure on local leaders and politicians.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




yes----it is a very complicated mess-----with one single common denominator------islam


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



What point are you struggling to make?


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## High_Gravity (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


 
So it sounds like we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. When ISIS first started steam rolling through Iraq we took heat for not getting involved sooner, now with the air strikes we will take even more criticism.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



I object to the  bigoted and RACIST  comments about  AIR STRIKES.     The
WRIGHT BROTHERS ----were good
American boys.     What makes bomb on ass operatives better than AIR STRIKES?

I would prefer-----ground stuff----like long range missiles------originating in the POCONO MOUNTAINS-----jettisoned to the
head of   AL BAGHDADI -------even if it happens to miss


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## Sally (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




I think people who read newspapers realize that there are conflicts all over the world, but it seems like the Peace-loving Muslims happen to be involved in many different places -- whether it is in Africa, the Middle East or Southeast Asia.


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



Yet, sometimes their involvement is as victims, not aggressors.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



Sally------do not ponder the words of ----you
know who------you will get a headache


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## Sally (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



No one would say that the Muslims haven't been victims; however, most of the victims of today have been done in by Muslims.  You can make all the excuses for them that you want to, but people are not that dumb to fall for your excuses.  All over the Muslims world, innocent people have been killed, even Muslims by other Muslims if they happen to belong to a different sect.  I


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## Sally (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



I know what you mean.  While she is busy at her job right now, I am going to lunch with a friend.  I just wish I had figured out how to fool around when I was working and still collected my paycheck.  About all we had was occasional long lunches when there was a successful launch.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



yes-----relatively speaking----rarely.    ----
When was the last time KAFFIRIN attacked
Saudi Arabia?       Saudi Arabia was ALWAYS  an important place-----it was on the path----the gateway to trade ----west east west and the gateway to  AFRICA .     From the standpoint of  economics------control on Arabia was a very important asset----an easy camel ride to the world.    When was the first and last time Buddhists went out of their way
to destroy mosques-----or attack the big black turd in the sand?


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



Kinda amusing----I was SO horrified by the
information I got about Shiites being murdered by sunnis in  Pakistan   -----when I first learned about it-----I just assumed that the SHIITES must be the GOOD GUYS.----
I shocked many sunni Pakistanis with my
sympathy for Shiites-------they did not see the point


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> I would like to lose 15 lbs-----
> it is not ALL related to pizza-----just most of it




 Not all pizza is fattening, irosie!  I have been scouring the net trying to find articles sympathetic to pizza, and have found some proclaiming the many health benefits of broccoli, kale and edamame pizza made without any cheese products and with gluten free dough.

 If you would like, I would be happy to dump article after article into this thread as I attempt to distract people away from all that other pizza with its bothersome Mozzarella, Pepperoni and sugar-laden tomato sauce.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to lose 15 lbs-----
> ...



gee-------thanks........    ----I cannot describe the MAGNITUDE of my enthusiasm......


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> gee-------thanks........    ----I cannot describe the MAGNITUDE of my enthusiasm......



You are most welcome.

Just remember that any time you need somebody whose agenda does not involve looking at the health risks of Pizza in an honest fashion, I'll be right there for you.


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



I think there are more non-Muslim conflicts going on than you realize.  The media just doesn't pay as much attention to them.  Even some, that you ascribe to as "Muslim" are really ethnic or civil wars, not religious wars.  Calling those "Muslim conflicts" would be like calling all conflicts in the Christian world "Christian conflicts".

List of ongoing armed conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

You might be astounded at some of the cumulative death tolls of some of these conflicts.

The Afghan Civil War (started 1978) 1,405,111 - 2,084,468
The Columbian Conflict (started 1964) 220,000 - 600,000
Darfur (started 2003)  178,258-461,520
Lords Resistance Army (started 1987, covering Uganda, CAR, DRC, South Sudan)  200,000 - 500,000
Mexican Drug War (started 2006) 150,000+
Syrian Civil War (started 2011) 260,000
Papua Conflict (started 1963) 400,000
Somali Civil War (started 1991) 500,000+

So these are a list of ongoing conflicts with the highest death tolls - all those over 100,000 killed.  The Afghan Civil War started when the PDPA took power in a military coup, resulting in uprising, and then the Soviet Invasion in 1979 to replace the existing communist government, then the Taliban and then the US invasion.  It's not strictly a religious conflict, though it is now.  The conflicts in Columbia, Mexico, Darfur and Papua are also not religious but ethnic, racial, resources, political insurgencies, drugs.

If you look over the list of ongoing conflicts - 17 have nothing to do with religion or Islam. 11 involve religious conflicts, of which one in which aggressors are Christian,  another Buddhist and the rest Muslim.  The majority of the conflicts inovolve nationalist/seperatist groups and ethnic disputes.

That's what is really going on around the world.  The media, of course pays little attention to these despite well documented atrocities and pretty huge death tolls.  That doesn't mean Islamic extremism isn't an issue - it certainly is in the Mid East and N. Africa, where the stability of nations is at risk and human rights abuses are flagrant.  But world wide, there is a lot more than Islam in conflict.


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## irosie91 (Sep 29, 2014)

check again   coyote---islam is  VERY MUCH disproportionately represented-----in fact----virtually no other RELIGIONS are factors ---
you can throw in TAMIL TIGERS if you wish---
they are hindus-----the things going on in the
Philippines is islam-------ok----so its drugs and
muslims----mostly     Sometimes its  muslims with drugs----my very intelligent Mexican neighbor-----still very linked to mexico----tells me that the south American ---(mostly he knows Mexican)   drug trade is very muslim
infiltrated


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## SAYIT (Sep 29, 2014)

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > We criticize our Presidents - god knows I despised Bush, and other despise Obama - but I don't think any of us would support or thank Putin for invading us and imposing "regime change".  Few countries want foreign interference or troops on their soil.  It might be a dictator, and they might be happy accepting arms - but troops and invasion are a whole 'nother issue.  I'm sure we will get some criticism for airstrikes.  I think that's just the way it goes.  No matter what happens, air strikes kill non-combatants and that puts pressure on local leaders and politicians.
> ...



You can't tell the players without a scorecard. Yesterday Pakistanis protested American military action in Syria and last week some Syrians did the same. Had we allowed ISIS to continue their slaughter of Yazidis and other civilians they would have been protesting our inaction.


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

SAYIT said:


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In the end, I think - we have to act against genocide...and that is what ISIS represents - kill anything that does not submit.


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## SAYIT (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> I think there are more non-Muslim conflicts going on than you realize.  The media just doesn't pay as much attention to them.  Even some, that you ascribe to as "Muslim" are really ethnic or civil wars, not religious wars.  Calling those "Muslim conflicts" would be like calling all conflicts in the Christian world "Christian conflicts".
> 
> List of ongoing armed conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...



Remarkably you cut off the casualty figure from the first conflict on that list ... Israeli/Palestinian conflict (since 1948) - fewer than 23,000!
It is staggering how much time and money the UN spends on that conflict while virtually ignoring the carnage elsewhere.
Is that why you truncated it?


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> check again   coyote---islam is  VERY MUCH disproportionately represented-----in fact----virtually no other RELIGIONS are factors ---
> you can throw in TAMIL TIGERS if you wish---
> they are hindus-----the things going on in the
> Philippines is islam-------ok----so its drugs and
> ...



I provided a link and went through the list of conflicts.  The drug trade is not "Muslim" other than opiates that come from Muslim areas and the people involved at that end.  It's Mexican and South American to blame there and they are predominatly Catholic.  The cartels responsible for the conflicts are local mafia groups.


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## Coyote (Sep 29, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > I think there are more non-Muslim conflicts going on than you realize.  The media just doesn't pay as much attention to them.  Even some, that you ascribe to as "Muslim" are really ethnic or civil wars, not religious wars.  Calling those "Muslim conflicts" would be like calling all conflicts in the Christian world "Christian conflicts".
> ...



More remarkable that you feel the need to derail a discussion that has nothing to do with IP isn't it?

What I said in my post: _So these are a list of ongoing conflicts with the highest death tolls - *all those over 100,000 killed*.

Last I heard 23,000 doesn't even come close.  A number of other conflicts were omitted for the same reason (gee - should I have included them?).  The only other one I could have included was the Korean War - but that goes so far back, and seems more of an outlier, I did not include it.  My bad._


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## SAYIT (Sep 29, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
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> > Coyote said:
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I cut my pasta and bread intake by half and eliminated over-the-counter sugar drinks and lost 25 lbs (12% of my body weight) over 2 years (20 lbs of that in the first 6 months). It's not a weight-loss diet but rather a permanent change in diet.


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## SAYIT (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


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Good point but we've had so many discussions about the Mideast I thought some perspective was in order. My bad.


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## Jroc (Sep 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Young Muslims speak out against ISIS on social media - ANN
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some are easily impressed, and believe what they wish were true is the actually the realty of the entirety. They are known as moral equivalency pushers...You're the queen on this subject


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

SAYIT said:


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No---Pakistanis would be delighted to knock off
yazidis ---themselves.      Yazidis seem to be something like left over  Zoroastrians------and interesting bit>>>>>>    Long ago---when I was young   (and beautiful)    I saw ZUBIN MEHTA---
interviewed on TV--------he described life in
Bombay  (now Mumbai)        Mumbai is culturally very diverse. ------just me-----little old me----had been acquainted with a whole array FROM MUMBAI-----hindus,  Zoroastrians,  Christians and  jews.   ---------Zubin said----"we all get along fine----well---of course, now and then trouble with the muslims"       (long ago-----about 35 years ago)      A few years ago -----if you recall----Islamic terrorism----in the fine culturally diverse city-----even the ancient synagogue was attacked----of course the rabbi and his wife murdered.


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > check again   coyote---islam is  VERY MUCH disproportionately represented-----in fact----virtually no other RELIGIONS are factors ---
> ...



stick to what you know-----the big issue THESE days is not marijuana-----it is  HEROIN---of the Islamic variety.     The stuff is actually brought into mexico and thence to
the USA-----Canada and direct is no longer all that easy------ ----for laughs----some idiots tried to make a living out of KHAT-----I did try that stuff once when in Israel----bitter and no effect-------chewing on it just made me nauseated         ---(ps ---it is not exactly illegal there----the stuff grows all over the place---but it is illegal in the USA)


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## aris2chat (Sep 30, 2014)

https://twitter.com/Aris2chat/status/516970486228480000
Muslim pilgrims denounce ‘Islamic State’ atrocities#*Genieo*http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=68262…

Muslims are speaking out but no one is listening#*Genieo*http://www.watoday.com.au/comment/muslims-are-speaking-out-but-no-one-is-listening-20140930-10nktr.html…

then again....

New Jihad Group In Egypt: “Caliphate Army of Egypt” Pledges Allegiance To Caliph Al-Baghdadihttp://pamelageller.com/2014/09/new-jihad-group-in-egypt-caliphate-army-of-egypt-pledges-allegiance-to-caliph-al-baghdadi-warns-of-attacks-on-u-s-embassy-and-americans.html/…


The Islamic State to open its first consulate in Istanbul, Turkey#*Genieo*http://pamelageller.com/2014/09/the-islamic-state-to-open-its-first-consulate-in-istanbul-turkey.html/…


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## Sally (Sep 30, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> check again   coyote---islam is  VERY MUCH disproportionately represented-----in fact----virtually no other RELIGIONS are factors ---
> you can throw in TAMIL TIGERS if you wish---
> they are hindus-----the things going on in the
> Philippines is islam-------ok----so its drugs and
> ...



Your Mexican neighbor might be on to something.  A few years back there was an article in the Los Angeles Times about money from the drug cartels supporting Islamic terrorism.  In fact, down at the border were found Korans and prayer rugs so perhaps some of those Muslims sneaking in here were being enabled by the Mexican cartels.


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > check again   coyote---islam is  VERY MUCH disproportionately represented-----in fact----virtually no other RELIGIONS are factors ---
> ...



he is the kind of person who KNOWS what is going on-----very sober---very intellectual----
but not particularly fortunate in life.-----an
impoverished childhood.     A very credible person


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Muslim pilgrims denounce ‘Islamic State’ atrocities#*Genieo*http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=68262…
> 
> Muslims are speaking out but no one is listening#*Genieo*http://www.watoday.com.au/comment/muslims-are-speaking-out-but-no-one-is-listening-20140930-10nktr.html…
> 
> ...




ISIS is a CALIPHATE  movement-----caliphate means  ISLAMIC SHARIAH (cesspit)   ----very imperialistic.     That some
muslim groups oppose THIS PARTICULAR 
CALIPHATE movement ---BY NO MEANS---comes even close to opposition to the vulgar and disgusting caliphate ideology.     Hundreds of millions of muslims were brought up believing that the stinking caliphate was---and WILL BE----     by the will of the damned black rock-----THE CENTER OF WORLD MUSLIM RULE
----  The little ferret---Achmadinejad so stated in a speech at that UN


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## Coyote (Sep 30, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
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That is pretty much what I said Rosie.  "Opiates" - that means Heroin and it's deriviatives and a lot comes from the ME.    However, the cartels controlling it's flow in and out of South America, and committing all these murders (and beheadings) are South American - not Muslim.


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## Coyote (Sep 30, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > check again   coyote---islam is  VERY MUCH disproportionately represented-----in fact----virtually no other RELIGIONS are factors ---
> ...



I seriously question the veracity of that report - I can't imagine a Muslim leaving behind a Koran.  Do you have a link for that?


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## Coyote (Sep 30, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Young Muslims speak out against ISIS on social media - ANN
> ...



Yet here they are - not just a few, but more and more around the world protesting, denouncing, even Islamic big wigs doing some serious soul searching.  Looks like you're frantic to find a way to marginalize it.  There's no "moral equivalency" going on - simply a reporting of the news.  Keep on moving the goal posts


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## aris2chat (Sep 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
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In the levant, most of the drugs were controlled by Syrian or Hezbullah for decades.


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## Coyote (Sep 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
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Afghanistan has a big hand in also, but when it crosses the ocean control is with other groups.  It's a very lucrative enterprise for terrorists of all stripes and even governments.


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


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not according to my Mexican neighbor----in fact-----another interesting point he made is
the big effort going on in mexico to attract
CONVERTS     ------just a few years ago----
with my very limited Spanish-----I noted all sorts of ISLAMIC propaganda in the newspaper    EL DIARIO   (spelling?)    ---its the Spanish newspaper popular over here with Spanish speaking people.    The HEROIN trade-----according to my cop informant------is an ISLAMIC BUSINESS---in fact he claimed that the black cakes of
----heroin   (???)   come stamped with an insignia of  Islamic terrorism----crossed scimitars   (???)   <<<heresay of course----
I never saw the black cakes----something like disks------then something else is done to them for use in recipes.    Not just from the middle east       Heroin production is a bit AFghani THING


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


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YES IT IS-----AND IT EXPLAINS WHY MUSLIMS ARE DOING THEIR THING IN MEXICO-------IT GOT TOUGH FOR THEM TO CHANNEL IT THRU THE USA AND CANADA


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
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HOW COME THEY GET ALL THE GOOD STUFF?          ----ALL I EVER GOT WAS THREE GREEN BITTER KHAT LEAVES----
AND NO EFFECT.      ---ok ok-----I have to confess-----I chewed on three khat leaves----
from a bush-----------I DID IT!!!!!!

I have no idea why anyone would want to chew those damned leaves.  ---marijuana---
well-----I was offered ----but I cannot inhale----so I didn't.     I feel deprived


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## Coyote (Sep 30, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
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The drug trade has always had an intermix of gangs, cartels and "mafias" from all over.  Drug money finances a lot of illegal activities, guerilla groups, terrorist groups, seperatist groups and even governments and it's hard to stop it.  The Russian and eastern European mafias are also big players.  However - what's going on in South America and Mexico has been going on for some time and the major players are the local cartels.  They are responsible for the deaths.


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
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so says coyote         I am tempted to say 
   *****PROVE IT******       I do not get my
   information from   WIKKI-----   If I want to
   know---and even if I do not want to know---
   the persons whose information on drugs in
   my city ----that I credit----is-----the drug  
   cops -----HEROIN in my city is ----Islamic,
   No one needs khat


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## aris2chat (Sep 30, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> aris2chat said:
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When they burn the brush that grows in and around orchards you can't help but inhale.
Sheets hung to dry during that time smell so nice to sleep on.
Chewing the leaves of cannibals used for minor surgery like stitching cuts, setting bones and also offered by some midwives for childbirth.
It is good in tea.  It used to be added to wine.
I used to laugh at some of the students in college with that familiar aroma clinging to their clothes and hair.  Not so much when friends of my children, middle and high school, had that same aroma.  Angered when some tried to give my children in elementary bags of powdered sugar or dried herbs pass off as drugs.  School took actions when I brought it to their attention after I found out when they returned home and showed me the zipbags and told me who had given them on the bus.


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## irosie91 (Sep 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> irosie91 said:
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remember the time of stickers laced with LSD----sort on what is supposed to be the glue part.........?         is that kind of stuff still
happening?


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## Sally (Sep 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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> > irosie91 said:
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All you have to do is research it on Google.  I am telling you the newspaper it appeared in.  If you can't find it on Google, write to the managing editor of the Los Angeles Times and ask him if he can E-mail a copy of the article to you or else he will tell you where to go into the Los Angeles Times Archives and for a small amount of money can pull up the article.  I don't keep copies of stuff I have read in my newspaper.


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## Jroc (Oct 1, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
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Call me a realist. You? not so much. the "Goal posts" are where they've always been. You're the one with the lame attempt at a field goal. Pathetically lame actually


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## Coyote (Oct 1, 2014)

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
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Realist? I'm sure you like to think so....

Keep moving those goalposts


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