# Kaepernick Rejected...Fellow NFLers Whine



## Bush92

Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says


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## miketx

Kapernig screwed himself.


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## shockedcanadian

I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to be, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.

As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.

The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction and has in fact cost his owners money,  it isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.


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## Penelope

shockedcanadian said:


> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.



Apologize for what?


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## Penelope

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



I stand with the kneelers.


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## harmonica

> “NFL executives and owners joined NFLPA executives and player leaders to review and discuss plans to utilize our platform to promote equality and effectuate positive


they can start by having the players telling young black men and women to:
--go to school--study--finish high school
--don't have kids before you can finance them--if you do have a kid--don't have anymore until you can finance them
--nurture and teach your kids from day 1

and the main problem--the root of the problem [which is NOT the police ]:
*DON"T BE A CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!OMG--*this is basic common sense --but it's so hard for them to understand--because they don't want to/can't understand because they've been TAUGHT to hate whitey/police


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## ABikerSailor

I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.

Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong. 

Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.

The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need. 

Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.


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## Luddly Neddite

Typical. The one thing RWs hate is any Black standing up for his right to not be shot in the back. When are blacks going to learn that they actually don't have the rights they are guaranteed? 

Now if he would just suck up to trump like Kanye West did. Remember when RWNJs hated West and the Kardashians. since trump told them to love West, RWNJs are falling all over themselves to UH-DOOR him.




 But since this all started because the NFL throw trump out and refused to let him back in, that's not gonna happen.


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## miketx

ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.


He also has a right to be rejected by others expressing their rights, and to be fired if his actions are against company policy. So millions of real patriots have expressed themselves as well and kapernig is done. Long live freedom.


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## Luddly Neddite

shockedcanadian said:


> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.




Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him. 

A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.


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## Dr Grump

Another reason Con Americans make me laugh (ironically). Conservatives claim it to be a country that it isn't. Freedom my arse.


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## Zander

ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.



And the NFL fans, it's owners, and the rest of the country have the right to tell Kapernutjob to go pound sand.


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## miketx

Luddly Neddite said:


> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Trump did no such thing. Bath house barium divided the country, and you tools swallow it hook line and sinker.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben

Meh...screw off at work...get canned.


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## Penelope

A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.


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## Penelope

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.



I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really? 

We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.


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## ABikerSailor

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.



His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.


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## Penelope

Luddly Neddite said:


> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
Click to expand...


They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.


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## August West

A modern day Mohammed Ali. God bless him.


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## Dschrute3

Protest on your own time. Sports Athletes aren't 'special.' He's an employee just like the rest of us. Go ahead and try showing your ass and making political protests on your job. See what happens. He's a typical entitled Democrat Snowflake. He doesn't deserve a job in the NFL.


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## mikegriffith1

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



In any regular business, an employee has no right to express political views or engage in political activity during work hours and/or at his place of business. The owners should have just insisted on this common rule from the outset, right when this kneeling nonsense started, but most of them whimped out.


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## initforme

This is America.  America is so about the dollar first and foremost.  If he was a good quarterback he would have a job.  He is not a good qb so he has no job.  I do not agree with kneeling whatsoever but I also know if he helped a team win that stadium is beyond packed.  This is the America I know.   You want to believe otherwise that's fine keep fooling your low IQ.


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## harmonica

shockedcanadian said:


> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.


...but his principles were lies and bullshit--there is not a major, chronic problem of police brutality against blacks/etc...I've proven this many times on USMB


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## Dschrute3

mikegriffith1 said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In any regular business, an employee has no right to express political views or engage in political activity during work hours and/or at his place of business. The owners should have just insisted on this common rule from the outset, right when this kneeling nonsense started, but most of them whimped out.
Click to expand...


Dumb Democrat Snowflakes will never get that. Try showing your ass and making political protests on your job. See where that gets you. The dude's a spoiled baby. All Democrat Snowflakes are.


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## initforme

Hey deport me......born here.....


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## Pogo

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



What the fuck does football have to do with "our nation"?

Hm?

I know, I know --- you can't answer that.  No shit.


/thread


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## Pogo

Dschrute3 said:


> Protest on your own time.



"Time" begins at kickoff, Dippy.

Here's an alternative ---- run marionette fake-patriotism displays on your own _dime_.


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## Bush92

Pogo said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck does football have to do with "our nation"?
> 
> Hm?
> 
> I know, I know --- you can't answer that.  No shit.
> 
> 
> /thread
Click to expand...

FroBro is a no talent reject with anti-American political views.


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## initforme

If you don't have the decency to stand then stay in the locker room until the clock expires.  Now can you low iq folk get it?


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## Bush92

Pogo said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck does football have to do with "our nation"?
> 
> Hm?
> 
> I know, I know --- you can't answer that.  No shit.
> 
> 
> /thread
Click to expand...

Nothing because NFL has been rejected by the American people.


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## initforme

The stands will be packed next fall.  Fact.


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## Dschrute3

Pogo said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protest on your own time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Time" begins at kickoff, Dippy.
> 
> Here's an alternative ---- run marionette fake-patriotism displays on your own _dime_.
Click to expand...


He's a typical dumb Democrat Snowflake. Try showing your ass and making those political protests on your job. How much longer do you think you'll have your job?


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## Bush92

NFL ratings down. Overpaid assholes that have been pampered since high school while others had to earn their grades.
The NFL can’t blame Trump anymore: It is facing a ‘structural decline in viewership’


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## initforme

Just stand and then you get your paycheck.  How hard can it be?  Like a CEO....sit back and do a couple hours of work for a huge paycheck.


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## initforme

And I mean very little work.


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## Pogo

shockedcanadian said:


> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to be, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.



The national anthem isn't even part of NFL telecasts.  In fact before this was contrived into a fake "story", nobody who hadn't physically attended an NFL game was even aware there was a national anthem played, or that players were on the field during it, which is a recently contrived charade.  And pimped into place by taxpayer dollars until it was uncovered about 3 years ago.

And AGAIN it's not "at work".  "Work" begins at the kickoff.  Nobody's national anthem has jack friggety squat to do with football.  Or any other sport unless we're watching the Olympics, which NFL is clearly not.



shockedcanadian said:


> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction and has in fact cost his owners money,  it isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.




"Apologize" ---- for what?

Doesn't the Department of Defense (Defence in Canadian) owe the US taxpayer an apology for pimping these fake charades using players as their pawns?

Well?  Don't they?

The NFL apparently thinks so, since they sent three-quarters of a million bucks of that pimp money back.


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## Dschrute3

Bush92 said:


> NFL ratings down. Overpaid assholes that have been pampered since high school while others had to earn their grades.
> The NFL can’t blame Trump anymore: It is facing a ‘structural decline in viewership’



Yup, and the Government School/Democrat indoctrination didn't help either. The Government School System is producing millions of dumb Democrat Snowflakes just like him. Seriously, try showing your ass and making political protests on your job. See what happens. Sports athletes aren't 'special.' He's required to show up and do his job. Nothing more. Period, end of story.


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## initforme

Yep.  Show up and stand for anthem.  Then collect a huge paycheck for a couple of hours....like a typical CEO.  Both are useless.


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## Pogo

initforme said:


> Just stand and then you get your paycheck.  How hard can it be?  Like a CEO....sit back and do a couple hours of work for a huge paycheck.



You mean like a prostitute.

When you're trotted out to a public arena to play a fake marionette for the amusement of the Military Industrial Complex in a charade that has absolute Zero to do with what you're contracted for --- to play football ---- you're being used as a whore.  This guy simply said "no" to being used like that.

What??  Defy the State?  Quel horreur!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And for this the authoritarian-sycophant bootlickers want him to "apologize".  Or as it used to be called, to "know their place".


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben

ABikerSailor said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.
Click to expand...

No...he was under contract.




http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2017/08/11/0ap3000000828506.pdf
His conduct was unbecoming as it undercut public respect and support for the NFL. It could also be argued that his conduct could very well damage the reputation of others in the league.


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## initforme

But if he was good....he would have a job.  Plain and simple.


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## 80zephyr

ABikerSailor said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.
Click to expand...


Hmm. So if you work at Wal Mart, you can piss off your customers before your shift starts?

Mark


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## initforme

Unfortunately that's the way it is.  It's about the buck.


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## Pete7469

I hope he starves to death.


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## initforme

Wal-Mart doesn't provide high paying jobs so don't use it as an example.


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## Dschrute3

Show up and do your job just like the rest of us do. Fluck you and your politics! Nuff said.


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## Crixus

Penelope said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
Click to expand...



Bet you do.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben

Penelope said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
Click to expand...

In my line of work we have a saying, "shut up and color". Making an ass out of yourself in front of the country, while in the process breaking down team cohesion will get you blacklisted in any line of work.
No one likes an asshole.


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## The Original Tree

Fuck him.  He can go to a country where he respects their flag.





Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says


----------



## Crixus

Football. Not political activism. This douchewagon is nothing but a stupid haji fuck who saw that his feet and arm were going. This is nothing more then a gimmick to make money. And it does.


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## 80zephyr

initforme said:


> Wal-Mart doesn't provide high paying jobs so don't use it as an example.



Of course it matters. No one can piss off a customer base at ANY JOB and not face repercussions.

Mark


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## The Original Tree

Unless it’s prayers to God, Then your knees refuse to bend.



Penelope said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
Click to expand...


----------



## Dschrute3

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my line of work we have a saying, "shut up and color". Making an ass out of yourself in front of the country, while in the process breaking down team cohesion will get you blacklisted in any line of work.
> No one likes an asshole.
Click to expand...


You don't get to show your ass and spew your political beliefs at work. Your employer won't tolerate it. Kapernick is just a typical dumb spoiled Democrat Snowflake. He really believes he's 'special' because he plays a sport and is a Democrat. He doesn't deserve a job. It is what it is.


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## Winston

This whole affair is the clearest demonstration of the inequity in power between the owners and the players, in not just the NFL, but in every major sports league.  It is a monopsony, a market with one buyer, the owners.  And the NFL exercises every single ounce of their monopsony power.  It is no different than the NCAA, the players might get paid a token salary, and yes, I said "token", but it all operates the same.  Has Lebron James made a billion dollars?  That is a low estimate of the value of his labor to his owner.

And did you get that, "owner"--not even an attempt to avoid the legacy of slavery.  Because that is what working as a professional athlete is like in today's "capitalist" economy.  It is slavery.


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## miketx

Penelope said:


> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.


We all got together and exercised our rights and ruined him. I feel good about it.


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## Pogo

Bush92 said:


> NFL ratings down. Overpaid assholes that have been pampered since high school while others had to earn their grades.
> The NFL can’t blame Trump anymore: It is facing a ‘structural decline in viewership’



MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS and even NASCAR are all "down" too and they've all been trending that way for years, Rimjob van Winkle.

Why?  Obviously to anyone who didn't sleep through the last 20 years because other platforms are rendering TV superfluous.  And they're all advertising those various alternate platforms --- phones, tablets, streaming --- heavily.  I've been using them myself over ten years.

Time to wake up Gramps.


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## Dschrute3

Winston said:


> This whole affair is the clearest demonstration of the inequity in power between the owners and the players, in not just the NFL, but in every major sports league.  It is a monopsony, a market with one buyer, the owners.  And the NFL exercises every single ounce of their monopsony power.  It is no different than the NCAA, the players might get paid a token salary, and yes, I said "token", but it all operates the same.  Has Lebron James made a billion dollars?  That is a low estimate of the value of his labor to his owner.
> 
> And did you get that, "owner"--not even an attempt to avoid the legacy of slavery.  Because that is what working as a professional athlete is like in today's "capitalist" economy.  It is slavery.



Yeah, go ahead and show your ass and push your political protests on your job. See where that gets ya. He's just a typical entitled Democrat Snowflake. He gets paid to do a job, not push his politics on everyone. What he did was very immature and unprofessional. He doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.


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## Missouri_Mike

ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.


Isn’t that what happened? He was allowed to speak, fans spoke, he lost.


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## depotoo

He wasn’t doing it on off time.  He was doing it while employed to play on the field.   Big difference.





ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.


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## DGS49

Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).

CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.

(a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.

(b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.

(c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.

(d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.

CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.

In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.


----------



## Trumpnation

All black players who kneel should be banned for life from NFL, NBA, and all other pro sports. They are losers, and should be thankful they got jobs, which is taking taking away jobs from real American athletes. You don't see white players kneeling. Its the blacks with gang tattoos that are causing problems.


----------



## initforme

I totally agree he should stand out of respect....those of you who call 12 bucks an hour a job....you and I are miles apart on supporting each other ever.


----------



## initforme

For 12 bucks an hour be happy if I show up.


----------



## Winston

Dschrute3 said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> 
> This whole affair is the clearest demonstration of the inequity in power between the owners and the players, in not just the NFL, but in every major sports league.  It is a monopsony, a market with one buyer, the owners.  And the NFL exercises every single ounce of their monopsony power.  It is no different than the NCAA, the players might get paid a token salary, and yes, I said "token", but it all operates the same.  Has Lebron James made a billion dollars?  That is a low estimate of the value of his labor to his owner.
> 
> And did you get that, "owner"--not even an attempt to avoid the legacy of slavery.  Because that is what working as a professional athlete is like in today's "capitalist" economy.  It is slavery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, go ahead and show your ass and push your political protests on your job. See where that gets ya. He's just a typical entitled Democrat Snowflake. He gets paid to do a job, not push his politics on everyone. What he did was very immature and unprofessional. He doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.
Click to expand...


No, political activism by NFL athletes has been tolerated for more than fifty years.  Ever hear of Jim Brown?  And when the owners of a monopsony meet secretly to "black ball" an individual that is otherwise qualified to play it is called "collusion", usually illegal and always subject to civil litigation.


----------



## Dschrute3

DGS49 said:


> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.



Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?


----------



## initforme

The nice thing about being your own boss is you do what yo want.  Most bosses others work for are not all that good.


----------



## Dschrute3

Winston said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Winston said:
> 
> 
> 
> This whole affair is the clearest demonstration of the inequity in power between the owners and the players, in not just the NFL, but in every major sports league.  It is a monopsony, a market with one buyer, the owners.  And the NFL exercises every single ounce of their monopsony power.  It is no different than the NCAA, the players might get paid a token salary, and yes, I said "token", but it all operates the same.  Has Lebron James made a billion dollars?  That is a low estimate of the value of his labor to his owner.
> 
> And did you get that, "owner"--not even an attempt to avoid the legacy of slavery.  Because that is what working as a professional athlete is like in today's "capitalist" economy.  It is slavery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, go ahead and show your ass and push your political protests on your job. See where that gets ya. He's just a typical entitled Democrat Snowflake. He gets paid to do a job, not push his politics on everyone. What he did was very immature and unprofessional. He doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, political activism by NFL athletes has been tolerated for more than fifty years.  Ever hear of Jim Brown?  And when the owners of a monopsony meet secretly to "black ball" an individual that is otherwise qualified to play it is called "collusion", usually illegal and always subject to civil litigation.
Click to expand...


Do your job. It's that simple. It's how the rest of us live. He can protest on his own personal time. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat.


----------



## jknowgood

Penelope said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
Click to expand...

I bet you do.



Totally disrespectful.


----------



## initforme

In the end all the work one does in their life means little to zero....it's simply a means to a paycheck.  But standing for those who serve or who did serve keeping us safe is why one should stand.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Penelope said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
Click to expand...


  Nah...you kneel for the kneelers.


----------



## jknowgood

Penelope said:


> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.


Yes bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but you kissed his ass.


----------



## jknowgood

Penelope said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Yes, and look at our country. More hatred than ever. Thanks to liberalism.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah...you kneel for the kneelers.
Click to expand...



Why don't RWNJs "stand" with and for the constitution and the right to NOT be shot in the back? 

WTF is wrong with you people? Just because trump tells you what to think, doesn't mean you always have to blindly obey. Fact is, trump's tantrum is because the NFL ALL Americans, not just trumpkins. 

Our so-called prez constantly says he is not the president of all Americans and that's only one example. Why do trumpkins follow him so closely, if he stops, you know where your nose will end up.


----------



## jknowgood

ABikerSailor said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.
Click to expand...

You're right. If he was proud of America and to the people that lost their lives giving him the freedom he has. He would stand, but he kneels like a bitch. Like a traitor.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

jknowgood said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but you kissed his ass.
Click to expand...



You sure you wanna go there?


----------



## blackhawk

I don't believe anyone is claiming Kaepernick didn't have the right to take the knee but actions have consquences and if you work in sports, movies, music, or tv where your success is in large part determined by the support of the public making political statements is a double edged sword sometimes it helps you sometimes it doesn't in his case it has not.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

jknowgood said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right. If he was proud of America and to the people that lost their lives giving him the freedom he has. He would stand, but he kneels like a bitch. Like a traitor.
Click to expand...



Its illegal to require that. 

Law passed about 1943-1945.

Because of nazies and fascists. 

You know, like trump. 

WHY do RWs hate the constitution? You hate and want an end to the very constitution our military fought for. 

Damn anti-Americans. I'm so fed up with the lot of you. You give nothing but you always have your hand out for more.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Penelope said:


> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apologize for what?
Click to expand...


You wouldn’t understand...you’re not suppose to understand...it’s a thing only good, REAL Americans understand.



Penelope said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
Click to expand...


Of course you do...Most UnAmericans do.


----------



## jknowgood

Penelope said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
Click to expand...

Lol, ask Tebow about that one.


----------



## BrokeLoser

ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.



You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.


----------



## jknowgood

Luddly Neddite said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but you kissed his ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You sure you wanna go there?
Click to expand...

Lol, you're a Looney hoot. The last two Democrat presidents, one was a draft dodger and the other hated our military.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my line of work we have a saying, "shut up and color". Making an ass out of yourself in front of the country, while in the process breaking down team cohesion will get you blacklisted in any line of work.
> No one likes an asshole.
Click to expand...


  Yep...burning bridges is common.
Crapperdick just cut out the middle man and did it on live TV.


Luddly Neddite said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah...you kneel for the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't RWNJs "stand" with and for the constitution and the right to NOT be shot in the back?
> 
> WTF is wrong with you people? Just because trump tells you what to think, doesn't mean you always have to blindly obey. Fact is, trump's tantrum is because the NFL ALL Americans, not just trumpkins.
> 
> Our so-called prez constantly says he is not the president of all Americans and that's only one example. Why do trumpkins follow him so closely, if he stops, you know where your nose will end up.
Click to expand...


  He can do what he wants.
Just be ready to accept the consequences.
  And if you think I wouldnt have been pissed about Crapperdicks behavior before Trump you're a bigger dumbshit than I ever thought possible.


----------



## jknowgood

Luddly Neddite said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right. If he was proud of America and to the people that lost their lives giving him the freedom he has. He would stand, but he kneels like a bitch. Like a traitor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its illegal to require that.
> 
> Law passed about 1943-1945.
> 
> Because of nazies and fascists.
> 
> You know, like trump.
> 
> WHY do RWs hate the constitution? You hate and want an end to the very constitution our military fought for.
> 
> Damn anti-Americans. I'm so fed up with the lot of you. You give nothing but you always have your hand out for more.
Click to expand...

Yeah, tell that to a baker.


----------



## jknowgood

Luddly Neddite said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but you kissed his ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You sure you wanna go there?
Click to expand...


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Luddly Neddite said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but you kissed his ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You sure you wanna go there?
Click to expand...


  I see you didnt list the leftist....I'm sure it was an honest oversight.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

The Original Tree said:


> Fuck him.  He can go to a country where he respects their flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
Click to expand...


  Canadian football should be right up his alley.


----------



## Marion Morrison

Penelope said:


> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.



You going to make a "Tuck Frump" sign and walk around carrying it at your job tomorrow?

Speaking of which, I heard a rumbling of the revival of the USFL, maybe whatshisface can get a job there.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

initforme said:


> I totally agree he should stand out of respect....those of you who call 12 bucks an hour a job....you and I are miles apart on supporting each other ever.



  Fuck no 12 bucks an hour isnt a job!!!
Which is why you work harder to improve your lot in life instead of mailing it in.
   If you have kids making that wage you should be charged with child abuse.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

initforme said:


> For 12 bucks an hour be happy if I show up.



   And you'd be promptly fired.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

initforme said:


> The nice thing about being your own boss is you do what yo want.  Most bosses others work for are not all that good.



   Funny,I've never had a problem with my boss,if he refused to pay me what I'm worth then I'd simply go find someone who would.
  No drama.


----------



## Penelope

jknowgood said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but you kissed his ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You sure you wanna go there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> View attachment 190171
Click to expand...




BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
Click to expand...


I have seen several on TV.


----------



## Penelope

jknowgood said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
Click to expand...


I don't want to ask Tebow.


----------



## Pogo

80zephyr said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm. So if you work at Wal Mart, you can piss off your customers before your shift starts?
> 
> Mark
Click to expand...


Not a comparison.  Nothing in Kaepernick's (non)action 'pisses off customers'.  It's not even part of the game.

All it pisses off are the obedient zombiedrones who assume the position for whatever The State feeds them, including fake "outrage" when their own fake patriotism charades get called out.

They're obsequious that way.


----------



## Pogo

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my line of work we have a saying, "shut up and color". Making an ass out of yourself in front of the country, while in the process breaking down team cohesion will get you blacklisted in any line of work.
> No one likes an asshole.
Click to expand...


I didn't think this thread was about Rump.  But "shut up and color" would certainly apply.


----------



## frigidweirdo

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



How did he not stand up for the nation?

Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't. 

What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.


----------



## ABikerSailor

BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
Click to expand...


Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.

What you got?


----------



## BrokeLoser

ABikerSailor said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
Click to expand...


I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY! 
You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.


----------



## ABikerSailor

initforme said:


> In the end all the work one does in their life means little to zero....it's simply a means to a paycheck.  But standing for those who serve or who did serve keeping us safe is why one should stand.



I'm one of those who served in the U.S. Navy for over 20 years, and was in 4 different war zones.  And, I support Kaepernick's right to peaceful protest because it is written in the Constitution that you can do that.  I swore an oath 5 times that I would support and protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I've already done my time defending it against foreign enemies because of the 4 war zones I served in.  

Now?  I still have to defend it against stupid people who would shut down another's right to free speech.  You are the domestic enemy of the Constitution.


----------



## Dan Stubbs

shockedcanadian said:


> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to be, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction and has in fact cost his owners money,  it isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.


*You just don't understand, he is knelling before his Masters, the Progressive who ordered him to, and he was forced to.  *


----------



## BrokeLoser

frigidweirdo said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
Click to expand...


How you Loons keep yourselves so fucking confused about this is absolutely mind blowing....Read my fucking lips for the last time....The U.S. flag to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions. When someone disrespects the flag...TO GOOD AMERICANS, they are essentially shitting on all of the aforementioned. 
You’re not suppose to get it...piece of shit UnAmericans never do.


----------



## ABikerSailor

BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
Click to expand...


Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.  

But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.

But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.


----------



## ABikerSailor

BrokeLoser said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How you Loons keep yourselves so fucking confused about this is absolutely mind blowing....Read my fucking lips for the last time....The U.S. flag to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions. When someone disrespects the flag...TO GOOD AMERICANS, they are essentially shitting on all of the aforementioned.
> You’re not suppose to get it...piece of shit UnAmericans never do.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but those good Americans who serve and defend this country that you speak so highly of would disagree with you.  We understand what the Constitution represents, because it is trained into us.  And, we also understand that it gives ALL Americans the right to express their opinion peacefully in any manner they wish.  Kapernick can kneel if he wants, and  you can bitch about it if YOU want.


----------



## BrokeLoser

ABikerSailor said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
Click to expand...


Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
Look bud, I know many Veterans, and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.


----------



## ABikerSailor

BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
Click to expand...


Quick question...............how many years did YOU serve?  Me?  Did just over 20.  4 war zones were Beruit back in '83, Desert Storm Pts I and II in the early 90's and was up around Kosovo in the late 90's.  What did you do other than throw insults at veterans?  Been to 26 different countries, 49 different states, and did it all on the government dime.  Never even had to get a passport, because my ID worked just fine when we pulled into a port.

I bet you never even went outside the US.


----------



## BrokeLoser

ABikerSailor said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Quick question...............how many years did YOU serve?  Me?  Did just over 20.  4 war zones were Beruit back in '83, Desert Storm Pts I and II in the early 90's and was up around Kosovo in the late 90's.  What did you do other than throw insults at veterans?  Been to 26 different countries, 49 different states, and did it all on the government dime.  Never even had to get a passport, because my ID worked just fine when we pulled into a port.
> 
> I bet you never even went outside the US.
Click to expand...


Like I said...BULLSHIT!
You can be whoever/whatever you want to be in cyberspace...most play that roll and act like what they’re trying to play the roll of...you’ve failed miserably at pretending to be a U.S. Veteran. Run along now...Go try to convince someone else of your awesomeness.......sorry bud.


----------



## frigidweirdo

BrokeLoser said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How you Loons keep yourselves so fucking confused about this is absolutely mind blowing....Read my fucking lips for the last time....The U.S. flag to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions. When someone disrespects the flag...TO GOOD AMERICANS, they are essentially shitting on all of the aforementioned.
> You’re not suppose to get it...piece of shit UnAmericans never do.
Click to expand...


Ah, insults.

Well, if you can manage to get through a post without insulting, I might read beyond the insult and reply.


----------



## ABikerSailor

BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Quick question...............how many years did YOU serve?  Me?  Did just over 20.  4 war zones were Beruit back in '83, Desert Storm Pts I and II in the early 90's and was up around Kosovo in the late 90's.  What did you do other than throw insults at veterans?  Been to 26 different countries, 49 different states, and did it all on the government dime.  Never even had to get a passport, because my ID worked just fine when we pulled into a port.
> 
> I bet you never even went outside the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I said...BULLSHIT!
> You can be whoever/whatever you want to be in cyberspace...most play that roll and act like what they’re trying to play the roll of...you’ve failed miserably at pretending to be a U.S. Veteran. Run along now...Go try to convince someone else of your awesomeness.......sorry bud.
Click to expand...


I got 1,000 bucks that says I'm telling the truth.  Come to Amarillo and meet me at the VA and I'll show you my retired ID card.  If you refuse, be known as a coward and a blowhard by me forever.


----------



## ABikerSailor

frigidweirdo said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How you Loons keep yourselves so fucking confused about this is absolutely mind blowing....Read my fucking lips for the last time....The U.S. flag to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions. When someone disrespects the flag...TO GOOD AMERICANS, they are essentially shitting on all of the aforementioned.
> You’re not suppose to get it...piece of shit UnAmericans never do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, insults.
> 
> Well, if you can manage to get through a post without insulting, I might read beyond the insult and reply.
Click to expand...


He even insults veterans because they don't agree with his world view.  I got news for him, veterans come in Democrat, Republican and Independent.


----------



## Pogo

BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
Click to expand...


Actually the only "disrespecting the flag" here is the way your head is up your ass about what it stands for.

I gives you a hint --- it ain't blind-ass mob mentality.


----------



## jknowgood

Penelope said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to ask Tebow.
Click to expand...

Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.


----------



## jknowgood

frigidweirdo said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
Click to expand...

Actually I spent my Sunday last year doing things, instead of watching football. I can think you kneeling assholes for that.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Pogo said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the only "disrespecting the flag" here is the way your head is up your ass about what it stands for.
> 
> I gives you a hint --- it ain't blind-ass mob mentality.
Click to expand...


Look whack-job, like I said, unAmerican filth like you don’t understand...you don’t have a clue about what the flag stands for to good Americans...
”The U.S. flag, to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions.”
You hate all that shit so you want to believe it’s about states, colonies and government....haha


----------



## Pogo

BrokeLoser said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the only "disrespecting the flag" here is the way your head is up your ass about what it stands for.
> 
> I gives you a hint --- it ain't blind-ass mob mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look whack-job, like I said, unAmerican filth like you don’t understand...you don’t have a clue about what the flag stands for to good Americans...
> ”The U.S. flag, to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions.”
> You hate all that shit so you want to believe it’s about states, colonies and government....haha
Click to expand...


Yyyyyyyyyeah we already got confirmation that y'all can't answer the question of wtf any national anthem has to do with any non-Olympic sporting event, don't give a fuck when your own government takes your tax dollars and pimps fake pat-parades to sell the MIC, are completely led around by the emotional nose, are incapable of critical thought, desire nothing more than to be led around as obedient Servants of the State by any demagogue that chooses to wrap you around his tiny little finger, don't have a clue in the world what freedom of expression, the Constitution, or manipulative coercion are, and sit around blissfully fapping to images of a mob forcing Earnest Starr to kiss a fucking flag.  But thanks for letting us know that none of that's changed in the last few minutes.

You keep us updated on that, zombiedrone.  That's an order.


----------



## BlackSand

Penelope said:


> ...
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.



Was that before or after kids started shooting their schools up ... 

.​


----------



## Penelope

BlackSand said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that before or after kids started shooting their schools up ...
> 
> .​
Click to expand...


a long time before and by the way every mass shooter is white.


----------



## Penelope

jknowgood said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to ask Tebow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
Click to expand...


Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Penelope said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that before or after kids started shooting their schools up ...
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a long time before and by the way every mass shooter is white.
Click to expand...


“*every mass shooter is white”*
Wrong again I see...haha...are you ever right?


----------



## BrokeLoser

Pogo said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the only "disrespecting the flag" here is the way your head is up your ass about what it stands for.
> 
> I gives you a hint --- it ain't blind-ass mob mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look whack-job, like I said, unAmerican filth like you don’t understand...you don’t have a clue about what the flag stands for to good Americans...
> ”The U.S. flag, to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions.”
> You hate all that shit so you want to believe it’s about states, colonies and government....haha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yyyyyyyyyeah we already got confirmation that y'all can't answer the question of wtf any national anthem has to do with any non-Olympic sporting event, don't give a fuck when your own government takes your tax dollars and pimps fake pat-parades to sell the MIC, are completely led around by the emotional nose, are incapable of critical thought, desire nothing more than to be led around as obedient Servants of the State by any demagogue that chooses to wrap you around his tiny little finger, don't have a clue in the world what freedom of expression, the Constitution, or manipulative coercion are, and sit around blissfully fapping to images of a mob forcing Earnest Starr to kiss a fucking flag.  But thanks for letting us know that none of that's changed in the last few minutes.
> 
> You keep us updated on that, zombiedrone.  That's an order.
Click to expand...


Your circle talk is so confusing....I though it was you and all your lowlife friends always begging to be owned by government...no?


----------



## irosie91

Penelope said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that before or after kids started shooting their schools up ...
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a long time before and by the way every mass shooter is white.
Click to expand...


so is every bridge player I have met.    Is that statistic mathematically significant?


----------



## iamwhatiseem

*Then why don't all of the NFL players that support him - SUPPORT HIM FINANCIALLY???*
Afterall, that is what they want the owners to do.


----------



## BlackSand

Penelope said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that before or after kids started shooting their schools up ...
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a long time before and by the way every mass shooter is white.
Click to expand...


That's what I thought ... A perfect example of how Progressive policy rots one's mind and eventually leads to disaster ... 

.​


----------



## iamwhatiseem

*NFL Players donating $10,000 each to financially support Kaepernick..*






....said no one ever.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

jknowgood said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
Click to expand...



Praying for a touchdown or thanking god for a touchdown - Now THAT is sick, sick, sick. 

And, jknowgood - You have no right to question me about my service to my country or what I have given in service to my country. I don't even have to ask you to know that. Either educate yourself or STFU.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

iamwhatiseem said:


> *NFL Players donating $10,000 each to financially support Kaepernick..*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....said no one ever.



Kaepernick donates almost all his money to the needy.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
Click to expand...



You must not know any vets then. 

You really think all vets like the way trump is screwing them?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

BrokeLoser said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were dishonorably discharged...I’m sure of it...I’ve never met a single Vet that talks like you...Congrats on being extremely unique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I retired Honorably with an RE-2 reenlistment code.  I enjoy free health care from the VA and a check from the government for the rest of my life.
> 
> What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call 100% total bullshit...no fucking way a legit Vet speaks like you do. NO FUCKING WAY!
> You should be ashamed of your disgusting self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I am a veteran, and I do speak that way.  You say that no legitimate veteran speaks like I do?  Really?  I seem to remember the second season of "60 Days In" where it's a reality show where they take civilians and put them in jail for 60 days and record their experience.  In the second season, they had a Marine who was on the show, and the next season, his wife decided to go on as well.  Well, when his wife went on the show, there was another inmate who drew a picture, and in it was an American flag with what looked like a footprint on it.  The wife got pissed and called her husband to bitch about it.  Her husband (a Marine) said that people in this country have the right to free speech, that is why he served.
> 
> But, if you wanna keep trolling me in the hopes of pissing me off, good luck.  I don't really know you, you're just a bunch of phosphor dots expressing an idea on my computer screen.  You have no influence on my retirement, my VA health care, and certainly no impact on my life what so ever.
> 
> But, like I said..................keep with the trolling if that is what blows your skirt up and makes you dance sideways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha...sold by Hollyweird huh? You believe all you see on T.V.? That’s funny shit.
> Look bud, I know many Veterans, and again, NONE speak like you...PERIOD! No good Vet stands by while the U.S. flag is disrespected...NONE.
> Your “Constitution” spin is weak, you’re an imposter....OR the type of Vet REAL Vets are ashamed of. I know this and so does everybody else.
Click to expand...



But, no one is disrespecting the flag. 

What RWs never get is that our military fought for our RIGHTS. 

THAT is what respecting our flag is really about. 

The flag is a piece of fabric but it represents RIGHTS.


----------



## Pogo

BlackSand said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that before or after kids started shooting their schools up ...
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a long time before and by the way every mass shooter is white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I thought ... A perfect example of how Progressive policy rots one's mind and eventually leads to disaster ...
> 
> .​
Click to expand...


I have a Progressive policy myself.  

It's required by law to register a car.


----------



## jknowgood

Luddly Neddite said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Praying for a touchdown or thanking god for a touchdown - Now THAT is sick, sick, sick.
> 
> And, jknowgood - You have no right to question me about my service to my country or what I have given in service to my country. I don't even have to ask you to know that. Either educate yourself or STFU.
Click to expand...

The way you can hate your fellow Americans, and the way you support unamerican ways. Makes me question your service. I wouldn't want my life in the hands of someone who can hate the way liberals do, sorry but that's my opinion.


----------



## Penelope

BlackSand said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that before or after kids started shooting their schools up ...
> 
> .​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a long time before and by the way every mass shooter is white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I thought ... A perfect example of how Progressive policy rots one's mind and eventually leads to disaster ...
> 
> .​
Click to expand...


Perfect example of how you right wing whities think.


----------



## Penelope

jknowgood said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really divided by this.  He didn't do himself any favours and in the end he had to choose to either pursue his principles in the limelight of NFL telecasts, or, have a career.  What he does outside of work is one issue, but choosing to kneel for the anthem while at work doesn't have to, nor obviously is it acceptable by his employer.
> 
> As I said if he would have come out and apologized, decided he wanted a career and signed a contract which would allow for his immediate dismissal if he disrespected the flag again, I believe he like anyone, deserved a second chance.  Appears he chose to not do so.
> 
> The best person should always get the job, but he has been a distraction as has in fact cost his owners money,  It's isn't a charity or some activist league, thus, he is unemployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Praying for a touchdown or thanking god for a touchdown - Now THAT is sick, sick, sick.
> 
> And, jknowgood - You have no right to question me about my service to my country or what I have given in service to my country. I don't even have to ask you to know that. Either educate yourself or STFU.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The way you can hate your fellow Americans, and the way you support unamerican ways. Makes me question your service. I wouldn't want my life in the hands of someone who can hate the way liberals do, sorry but that's my opinion.
Click to expand...


I doubt believe I care for you. You would not be my friend or even a causal acquaintance.


----------



## Penelope

Trumpnation said:


> All black players who kneel should be banned for life from NFL, NBA, and all other pro sports. They are losers, and should be thankful they got jobs, which is taking taking away jobs from real American athletes. You don't see white players kneeling. Its the blacks with gang tattoos that are causing problems.



No you are a loser.


----------



## Penelope

jknowgood said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you do.View attachment 190163
> Totally disrespectful.
Click to expand...


Either dead or maimed. We use to fight for the rights of American but that ended, now we fight other countries for their oil, gas and mining.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Dr Grump said:


> Another reason Con Americans make me laugh (ironically). Conservatives claim it to be a country that it isn't. Freedom my arse.



thats the UNDERSTATEMENT of the century that it is propaganda by our government this is a free country,It is actually one of the most suppressed. That is WHY when i hear that propaganda bullshit the LAND OF THE FREE,I leave for the restroom and WHY i applaud all NFL players not salutig a song that is bullshit propaganda.just wish the players in baseball,basketball and hockey would follow their stance.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



Our nation has freedoms on earth? how much the government pay you to post these lies here? you sound like USMB's resident paid troll WRONGwinger.

no surprise coming from a Bush supporter,a mass murderer of women and children so yeah,i would expect to hear that from YOU.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Penelope said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
Click to expand...


as do I until they stop singing that bullshit propaganda phrase LAND OF THE FREE when it NEEDS to be changed to Land of the OPPRESSED,


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.



stop telling lies as always that  you swore and took an oath to support and defend the constitution,you defend our corrupt government at  EVERY  chance you POSSIBLY can when they lie to the american people no matter how much they lie  and shit on the constitution shill same as Bush troll here does and WRONGwinger.


----------



## ABikerSailor

LA RAM FAN said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stop telling lies as always that  you swore and took an oath to support and defend the constitution,you defend our corrupt government at  EVERY  chance you POSSIBLY can when they lie to the american people no matter how much they lie  and shit on the constitution shill same as Bush troll here does and WRONGwinger.
Click to expand...


Hey, just because you don't think I served doesn't change the pension I get or the healthcare the VA gives me.  Doesn't change that nice little blue ID card that says I'm retired either. 

Like I've told others, your opinion of me means squat to me.  All you really are is a bunch of phosphor dots on my computer screen that shows rude posts.  If I actually knew or cared about you, then maybe your opinion would matter, but I don't, so it doesn't.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Penelope said:


> A serial draft dodger calling the kneelers SOB's.  That so pissed me off, and I'm white.



and because trump did that ONE STUPID THING you ignore all the great stuff he has done. I ALSO hated that trump called them that and it pissd me off as well and was one of factors WHY until a couple months ago, I believed he was as much a traiter to americans as Bush and Obama are but  if you would stop listening the corporate comntrolled news what THEY are telling you which is pretty obvious is the case,you would know Trump is the first president since kennedy to do the right thing and take a stand against the deep state and try and clean up the corruption in government.

I just hope we dont have another november 22nd 1963 again since like kennedy,Trump is ALSO stepping on some very powerful toes in washington while fighiting the deep state as he did and also not doing what his puppet masters tell him to do.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Pogo said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just stand and then you get your paycheck.  How hard can it be?  Like a CEO....sit back and do a couple hours of work for a huge paycheck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like a prostitute.
> 
> When you're trotted out to a public arena to play a fake marionette for the amusement of the Military Industrial Complex in a charade that has absolute Zero to do with what you're contracted for --- to play football ---- you're being used as a whore.  This guy simply said "no" to being used like that.
> 
> What??  Defy the State?  Quel horreur!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for this the authoritarian-sycophant bootlickers want him to "apologize".  Or as it used to be called, to "know their place".
Click to expand...


You mean like a prostitute.

When you're trotted out to a public arena to play a fake marionette for the amusement of the Military Industrial Complex in a charade that has absolute Zero to do with what you're contracted for --- to play football ---- you're being used as a whore. This guy simply said "no" to being used like that.

What?? Defy the State? Quel horreur!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And for this the authoritarian-sycophant bootlickers want him to "apologize". Or as it used to be called, to "know their place".


Best damn freaking post on this thread bar none,hands down,no contest.In FACT this is your BEST post EVER at this site,no contest better than ALL the posts on this thread COMBINED easily.you took the flag standing apologists to school and checkmated them all.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Trumpnation said:


> All black players who kneel should be banned for life from NFL, NBA, and all other pro sports. They are losers, and should be thankful they got jobs, which is taking taking away jobs from real American athletes. You don't see white players kneeling. Its the blacks with gang tattoos that are causing problems.



spoken like a true white racist.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BrokeLoser said:


> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How you Loons keep yourselves so fucking confused about this is absolutely mind blowing....Read my fucking lips for the last time....The U.S. flag to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions. When someone disrespects the flag...TO GOOD AMERICANS, they are essentially shitting on all of the aforementioned.
> You’re not suppose to get it...piece of shit UnAmericans never do.
Click to expand...


piece of shit unamericans? you mean all those criminals in washington and corrupt federal  judges and lawyers all over the country and the high command military brass and all these NFL owners who would murder their own MOTHERS if it meant they would become million times richer? THOSE piece of shit unamericans? you are so correct there on that on there for sure,that cant be debated..


----------



## Correll

The fans need to realize that the players have nothing but contempt for them.


THe owners showed that they feel the same, but they are willing to hide it in order to make money.


FUCK THE NFL.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Correll said:


> The fans need to realize that the players have nothing but contempt for them.
> 
> 
> THe owners showed that they feel the same, but they are willing to hide it in order to make money.
> 
> 
> FUCK THE NFL.




SECOND BEST POST on this thread.


----------



## BrokeLoser

LA RAM FAN said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How you Loons keep yourselves so fucking confused about this is absolutely mind blowing....Read my fucking lips for the last time....The U.S. flag to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions. When someone disrespects the flag...TO GOOD AMERICANS, they are essentially shitting on all of the aforementioned.
> You’re not suppose to get it...piece of shit UnAmericans never do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> piece of shit unamericans? you mean all those criminals in washington and corrupt federal  judges and lawyers all over the country and the high command military brass and all these NFL owners who would murder their own MOTHERS if it meant they would become million times richer? THOSE piece of shit unamericans? you are so correct there on that on there for sure,that cant be debated..
Click to expand...


Haha...sure...RIGHT. That’s how it goes in that backward shithole of Libtardia...Something like that.
Rich people = BAD
unAmerican piece of shits = GOOD


----------



## BlackSand

Pogo said:


> I have a Progressive policy myself.
> 
> It's required by law to register a car.



Which still doesn't make you a decent driver ... 

.​


----------



## BlackSand

Penelope said:


> Perfect example of how you right wing whities think.



I am not right wing nor left wing ... I tend to like to soar instead of favoring the idea of flying in circles ... 

.​


----------



## BlueGin

Pogo said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protest on your own time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Time" begins at kickoff, Dippy.
> 
> Here's an alternative ---- run marionette fake-patriotism displays on your own _dime_.
Click to expand...

Wrong. His job was to give the fans what they paid for. Entertainment via football. He was not paid for insulting sports fans with his political activism.


----------



## Dschrute3

BlueGin said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protest on your own time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Time" begins at kickoff, Dippy.
> 
> Here's an alternative ---- run marionette fake-patriotism displays on your own _dime_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong. His job was to give the fans what they paid for. Entertainment via football. He was not paid for insulting sports fans with his political activism.
Click to expand...


Entitled Democrat Snowflakes can't grasp that. All i tell em is to go ahead and show their asses and make political protests on their jobs. See how much longer they have their jobs. They still probably don't get it, but at least i tried.


----------



## BlueGin

Penelope said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to ask Tebow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.


----------



## BlueGin

Dschrute3 said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protest on your own time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Time" begins at kickoff, Dippy.
> 
> Here's an alternative ---- run marionette fake-patriotism displays on your own _dime_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong. His job was to give the fans what they paid for. Entertainment via football. He was not paid for insulting sports fans with his political activism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Entitled Democrat Snowflakes can't grasp that. All i tell em is to go ahead and show their asses and make political protests on their jobs. See how much longer they have their jobs. They still probably don't get it, but at least i tried.
Click to expand...

They get it. Which is why they always try to get people fired ( via boycott) that they don't agree with politically.

They just like to play dumb when it suits them.


----------



## BlueGin

Correll said:


> The fans need to realize that the players have nothing but contempt for them.
> 
> 
> THe owners showed that they feel the same, but they are willing to hide it in order to make money.
> 
> 
> FUCK THE NFL.


Which is true of all venues of the entertainment industry...which is why my support of them gets smaller every year.


----------



## Correll

BlueGin said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fans need to realize that the players have nothing but contempt for them.
> 
> 
> THe owners showed that they feel the same, but they are willing to hide it in order to make money.
> 
> 
> FUCK THE NFL.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is true of all venues of the entertainment industry...which is why my support of them gets smaller every year.
Click to expand...




A very good point.


----------



## jknowgood

Penelope said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, less qualified players have been hired over him.
> 
> A secret meeting of owners was leaked. No surprise that they hate what trump did to divide the country and attack the Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Praying for a touchdown or thanking god for a touchdown - Now THAT is sick, sick, sick.
> 
> And, jknowgood - You have no right to question me about my service to my country or what I have given in service to my country. I don't even have to ask you to know that. Either educate yourself or STFU.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The way you can hate your fellow Americans, and the way you support unamerican ways. Makes me question your service. I wouldn't want my life in the hands of someone who can hate the way liberals do, sorry but that's my opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt believe I care for you. You would not be my friend or even a causal acquaintance.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that, we are americans, right? I see, you will Kanye West anyone that won't agree with you 100%. This is what's really wrong with America, people like yourself.


----------



## Bush92

LA RAM FAN said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stop telling lies as always that  you swore and took an oath to support and defend the constitution,you defend our corrupt government at  EVERY  chance you POSSIBLY can when they lie to the american people no matter how much they lie  and shit on the constitution shill same as Bush troll here does and WRONGwinger.
Click to expand...

I am a 100% Constitutionalist. There are limits on free speech, that includes when you are a corporate employee, which is all NFL players are. Certainly not heroes or role models.


----------



## Bush92

LA RAM FAN said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> initforme said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just stand and then you get your paycheck.  How hard can it be?  Like a CEO....sit back and do a couple hours of work for a huge paycheck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like a prostitute.
> 
> When you're trotted out to a public arena to play a fake marionette for the amusement of the Military Industrial Complex in a charade that has absolute Zero to do with what you're contracted for --- to play football ---- you're being used as a whore.  This guy simply said "no" to being used like that.
> 
> What??  Defy the State?  Quel horreur!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for this the authoritarian-sycophant bootlickers want him to "apologize".  Or as it used to be called, to "know their place".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean like a prostitute.
> 
> When you're trotted out to a public arena to play a fake marionette for the amusement of the Military Industrial Complex in a charade that has absolute Zero to do with what you're contracted for --- to play football ---- you're being used as a whore. This guy simply said "no" to being used like that.
> 
> What?? Defy the State? Quel horreur!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for this the authoritarian-sycophant bootlickers want him to "apologize". Or as it used to be called, to "know their place".
> 
> 
> Best damn freaking post on this thread bar none,hands down,no contest.In FACT this is your BEST post EVER at this site,no contest better than ALL the posts on this thread COMBINED easily.you took the flag standing apologists to school and checkmated them all.
Click to expand...

If you cheer for the NFL and get wrapped up in it...you need to get a life.


----------



## Pogo

DGS49 said:


> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.



You could have put all that into a single word --- "uppity".


----------



## Pogo

BlueGin said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protest on your own time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Time" begins at kickoff, Dippy.
> 
> Here's an alternative ---- run marionette fake-patriotism displays on your own _dime_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong. His job was to give the fans what they paid for. Entertainment via football. He was not paid for insulting sports fans with his political activism.
Click to expand...


Actually my tax dollars (and yours) were not paid so that the War Department could pimp out these fake patriotism displays injected into events they have zero to do with simply because they have a captive audience to sell it.

Allllllllllllll these klowns that pretend to piss and moan about 'injecting politics into sports' that completely give the government a pass on that scandal are flaming hypocrites.  Had that not been injected in the first place there would have been nothing there for anybody to protest, OR to roll over for like an obedient marionette.  It would have left a simple football (baseball, basketball, etc) game, which is what it was *supposed to* be in the first place.

And again, the irony in all this is that while the Pentagon has pimped all the pro sports right down to soccer, the NFL is the only one that did the right thing and sent the money back.

The fact that so many drones would just go  while that happens but then turn on one guy who defies it, demonstrates the depth of Establishment mind control.


----------



## Pogo

BlackSand said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Progressive policy myself.
> 
> It's required by law to register a car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which still doesn't make you a decent driver ...
> 
> .​
Click to expand...


Correct.  My superhumanly superior reflexes, keen ability to see the big picture and anticipate, attention to vehicle maintenance and vast experience do that.

Course, I'm an excellent driver.  Yah.  Definitely an excellent driver.


----------



## Dschrute3

DO YOUR JOB!

Live like the rest of us do. Just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, does't mean he's special. He can do his political protesting on his own personal time. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.


----------



## Pogo

BlueGin said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to ask Tebow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
Click to expand...


Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.

In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?". 

And that is mind control.


----------



## Pogo

BlueGin said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> They gave him a platform and he used it.  Peaceful demonstration, kneeling, maybe he was praying.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to ask Tebow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
Click to expand...


Then the public should be up in arms about the Pentagon pimping it in there, shouldn't it.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Penelope said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you do.View attachment 190163
> Totally disrespectful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either dead or maimed. We use to fight for the rights of American but that ended, now we fight other countries for their oil, gas and mining.
Click to expand...



That is the UNDERSTATEMENT of the year.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ABikerSailor said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stop telling lies as always that  you swore and took an oath to support and defend the constitution,you defend our corrupt government at  EVERY  chance you POSSIBLY can when they lie to the american people no matter how much they lie  and shit on the constitution shill same as Bush troll here does and WRONGwinger.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, just because you don't think I served doesn't change the pension I get or the healthcare the VA gives me.  Doesn't change that nice little blue ID card that says I'm retired either.
> 
> Like I've told others, your opinion of me means squat to me.  All you really are is a bunch of phosphor dots on my computer screen that shows rude posts.  If I actually knew or cared about you, then maybe your opinion would matter, but I don't, so it doesn't.
Click to expand...


funny how you CLAIM you dont yet your actions show otherwise the fact you dont put me on ignore and take the tiime to reply which proves you a liar as always.LOL

 i would normally not waste my time with your  sick kind on the governments pay roll who worship our governments corruption all the time if it was not such fun watching you end up with egg on your face and evade facts all the time changing the topic everytime you are cornered and forced to lie for them  as always in defeat everytime their lies and corruption is exposed.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

BrokeLoser said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frigidweirdo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did he not stand up for the nation?
> 
> Wait, wait, wait.... Confederate flag wavers will be considered people who stand up for the nation, but someone who protests at an NFL game isn't.
> 
> What the fuck? You people's priorities are severely fucking screwball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How you Loons keep yourselves so fucking confused about this is absolutely mind blowing....Read my fucking lips for the last time....The U.S. flag to good Americans is an iconic representation of other good Americans, our military men and women, American culture and traditions. When someone disrespects the flag...TO GOOD AMERICANS, they are essentially shitting on all of the aforementioned.
> You’re not suppose to get it...piece of shit UnAmericans never do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> piece of shit unamericans? you mean all those criminals in washington and corrupt federal  judges and lawyers all over the country and the high command military brass and all these NFL owners who would murder their own MOTHERS if it meant they would become million times richer? THOSE piece of shit unamericans? you are so correct there on that on there for sure,that cant be debated..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha...sure...RIGHT. That’s how it goes in that backward shithole of Libtardia...Something like that.
> Rich people = BAD
> unAmerican piece of shits = GOOD
Click to expand...



Thats pretty much what the NFL owners and players think of their fans that go out and watch their games yet the sheep in american keep forking out their bucks to go out there and watch them? unreal.LOL  I was like them one time in my younger days but that i at LEAST wised up  now that i am a lot older now.too bad many never do.  Now that i see how corrupt the NFL really is now,I'll never give them another dime.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Bush92 said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stop telling lies as always that  you swore and took an oath to support and defend the constitution,you defend our corrupt government at  EVERY  chance you POSSIBLY can when they lie to the american people no matter how much they lie  and shit on the constitution shill same as Bush troll here does and WRONGwinger.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 100% Constitutionalist. There are limits on free speech, that includes when you are a corporate employee, which is all NFL players are. Certainly not heroes or role models.
Click to expand...


IF you were a 100 % constitutionalist you sure would not be a fan of that mass murderer and traiter asshole you worship in your avatar. you have as much credibility as that sailer shill liar does.LOL


----------



## PredFan

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



Is he still around? 

Is the NFL still around?


----------



## BlackSand

Pogo said:


> Correct.  My superhumanly superior reflexes, keen ability to see the big picture and anticipate, attention to vehicle maintenance and vast experience do that.
> 
> Course, I'm an excellent driver.  Yah.  Definitely an excellent driver.


I noticed you didn't happen to mention overreaching Progressive policy and the added taxes/fees as a contributing factor ... 

.​


----------



## Pogo

BlackSand said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.  My superhumanly superior reflexes, keen ability to see the big picture and anticipate, attention to vehicle maintenance and vast experience do that.
> 
> Course, I'm an excellent driver.  Yah.  Definitely an excellent driver.
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you didn't happen to mention overreaching Progressive policy and the added taxes/fees as a contributing factor ...
> .​
Click to expand...


Progressive doesn't tack on any 'added taxes/fees'.  Flo hooks me up.  

That's because I know how to treat a lady in a lab coat.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Dschrute3 said:


> DO YOUR JOB!
> 
> Live like the rest of us do. Just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, does't mean he's special. He can do his political protesting on his own personal time. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.



You know, the reason he was able to get  a job with an NFL team is because he IS "special".  Are you capable of running as fast and throwing a football as well as him?  Are you capable of the physical fitness that is required to do his job?

If you were, you would be in the NFL.  Many people want to play for a professional football team, but the problem is, not many are capable of the physical fitness requirements.  

Kaepernick earned his place in the NFL.  Too bad that some of you idiots are incapable of seeing that, as well as too  bad that you don't understand what the First Amendment stands for.


----------



## Correll

Pogo said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could have put all that into a single word --- "uppity".
Click to expand...


Not really.


----------



## BlueGin

Pogo said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, ask Tebow about that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to ask Tebow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
Click to expand...

It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.


----------



## Pogo

BlueGin said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to ask Tebow.
> 
> 
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
Click to expand...


No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.

I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.

What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies. 

The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.
> 
> I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.
> 
> What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies.
> 
> The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?
Click to expand...


And your youth games were the same as the NFL?

Look, outside of the issue of kneeling players, this idea that the players are only on the job from the start of play until the final whistle is ridiculous.  I am confident that no NFL player has a contract stipulating that they are only employees during game time.  When an NFL player is on the field wearing their team's uniform, they are doing so as employees of the NFL.  Kaepernick was kneeling while at work.

The anthem may not be during the game, but it is part of the overall package of an NFL game.

I don't care about kneeling players.  They can kneel or not during the anthem.  I don't watch the games to get their personal political or social views.  That said, if the NFL wants to require players to stand during the anthem at games, they can do so.  

There may not currently be a rule requiring players to stand, but there is a guideline saying they should stand.

If the NFL owners got together and decided as a group not to hire Kaepernick, they deserve to be punished for that.  If he isn't being hired because of the negative publicity surrounding him, and it isn't because of any sort of hidden group decision to blackball him, that's just a consequence of his own actions.

I find the tradition of playing the national anthem during sporting events a very odd one.  They seem like very unconnected events.  That doesn't mean Kaepernick (or any other player) can kneel during the anthem at games without any consequences.  If Aaron Rodgers knelt during the anthem, would he have a job?  Absolutely.  Kaepernick was not a good enough QB to get away with rocking the boat the way he did.


----------



## BlackSand

Pogo said:


> Progressive doesn't tack on any 'added taxes/fees'.  Flo hooks me up.
> 
> That's because I know how to treat a lady in a lab coat.



So you bought a car, registered it and didn't pay tax, title and license ... 


.​


----------



## BlueGin

Pogo said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you know how you treat Christians? You hate us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.
> 
> I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.
> 
> What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies.
> 
> The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?
Click to expand...

Sorry Pogo but you are wrong. If you are employed by the NFL and under contract you are on the job the second you sign on the dotted line and especially while in uniform.


----------



## jillian

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



oh nooooo! how dare someone stand up against unarmed young men being shot for no reason.

you people are so disgusting.


----------



## Correll

jillian said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh nooooo! how dare someone stand up against unarmed young men being shot for no reason.
> 
> you people are so disgusting.
Click to expand...



He disrespected the Flag and the nation is stood for, and all it's citizens.


And the fans, who are mostly citizens, did not like it.


Truly, imo, the owners are just as much fuckos as he is, because they pandered to this anti-American shit, until it started to hurt their bottom line.


----------



## Dschrute3

ABikerSailor said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO YOUR JOB!
> 
> Live like the rest of us do. Just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, does't mean he's special. He can do his political protesting on his own personal time. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the reason he was able to get  a job with an NFL team is because he IS "special".  Are you capable of running as fast and throwing a football as well as him?  Are you capable of the physical fitness that is required to do his job?
> 
> If you were, you would be in the NFL.  Many people want to play for a professional football team, but the problem is, not many are capable of the physical fitness requirements.
> 
> Kaepernick earned his place in the NFL.  Too bad that some of you idiots are incapable of seeing that, as well as too  bad that you don't understand what the First Amendment stands for.
Click to expand...


He's his own biggest problem. He's immature and unprofessional. It's why he could never advance his game to the next level. And no, just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, doesn't mean he's better than you and me. 

At best, the kid is now a bench warmer. But i can understand why teams don't wanna bring him in. Why bring a whiny Snowflake in as a backup QB? They can find numerous QB's to fill that position. Football is a business. They don't want immature unprofessional folks. Why pay someone to be a problem? I'm fine with protesting, just do it on your own personal time. When you're at work, just do your job. Period, end of story.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

I wish ALL professional athletes in ALL pro sports would start kneeling. as long as we have a corrupt evil government on our hands there is no way in hell I will ever salute the flag because when you do so you are saluting a corrupt government that is WHY when they do play the national anthem at sports,.i head for the restroom.

I am not going to salute some propaganda lie bullshit song the land of the free when the FACTS are it is the land of the OPPRESSED with everything that was taught to us in history classes to be an outright LIE that we were indoctrinated with.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.
> 
> I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.
> 
> What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies.
> 
> The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And your youth games were the same as the NFL?
Click to expand...


Same game, yup.  So were the other sports.  Underlining the point that NOWHERE is it necessary to play any national anthem in order to play a game of football (baseball, basketball, etc).  *It is not part of the game*.  It's not in any way related.  And I'm refuting those klowns here who want to pretend that it is.

Matter of fact you're about to agree that it's irrelevant later in this post.  And you'll be right. 

Why don't we have to wait through a national anthem when we go to a music concert?  A movie?  A play?  The grocery store?  It would be equally irrelevant and make the same amount of sense, i.e. Zero.  But then again the concert halls and theaters and grocery stores haven't been pimped out by the Pentagon to put on charades, have they.




Montrovant said:


> Look, outside of the issue of kneeling players, this idea that the players are only on the job from the start of play until the final whistle is ridiculous.  I am confident that no NFL player has a contract stipulating that they are only employees during game time.  When an NFL player is on the field wearing their team's uniform, they are doing so as employees of the NFL.  Kaepernick was kneeling while at work.



Again, NFL players are contractors, not 'employees'.  And of course the requirements of that contract require much more than the 60 minutes of play --- practice squads and workouts, suiting up, travel, etc.  But nobody is contracted to be a marionette for a Pentagon-pimped fake-patriotism display.  It's got (again) Zero to do with the game, with practicing for the game, with travelling to the game, or any other aspect of it.



Montrovant said:


> The anthem may not be during the game, but it is part of the overall package of an NFL game.



That's the league's problem.  They let it happen in the first place, and now they've got to deal with the consequences.  And again players weren't even ON the field during it, until less than a decade ago.  And again again, nobody who hadn't been personally TO an NFL game would have even known it was done at all, since it's also not part of the telecasts, so now we've got the naked hypocrisy of fake-outrage about fake-patriotism being obediently droned by the unwashed who were ordered to play the part, and fall all over themselves to Obey.  Which is disgusting.



Montrovant said:


> I don't care about kneeling players.  They can kneel or not during the anthem.  I don't watch the games to get their personal political or social views.  That said, if the NFL wants to require players to stand during the anthem at games, they can do so.



And yet, they don't.

I don't care about sitting/kneeling players (or fans or anybody) either.  They, and I, will do what we want.  But I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be outraged because some media hack(s) and some political demagogue(s) demand I do without giving any good reason.



Montrovant said:


> There may not currently be a rule requiring players to stand, but there is a guideline saying they should stand.
> 
> If the NFL owners got together and decided as a group not to hire Kaepernick, they deserve to be punished for that.  If he isn't being hired because of the negative publicity surrounding him, and it isn't because of any sort of hidden group decision to blackball him, that's just a consequence of his own actions.



I believe he's got a lawsuit making that case.  I don't know what its status is but that's NFL business, not mine.  As for the "negative publicity", it matters whether that "negative publicity" is real or fake.   Just as the Pentagon-pimped fake displays matter.  It's imperative to pick out the real from contrived demagoguery.  Fakery is fakery.

That's why I keep railing on these klowns to explain the "reasoning" behind the fake outrage.  They can't do it --- ergo fake.




Montrovant said:


> I find the tradition of playing the national anthem during sporting events a very odd one.  They seem like very unconnected events.  That doesn't mean Kaepernick (or any other player) can kneel during the anthem at games without any consequences.



Actually it does mean that.  Or more correctly it does NOT mean he can't.

And again Kaepernick was already sitting out the anthem for several games before anyone noticed and tried to milk a fake-outrage "story" out of t.  And those games somehow went on like any other game.  Nobody got into this fake-outrage play-acting until they were TOLD to.

Again, I've been to many a baseball game and have never once stood for a national anthem.  Nobody tried to milk a story out of me, nobody declined to sell me a ticket to another game --- matter of fact, nobody ever said or did a damn thing.  Which is as it should be.

It is indeed an odd thing to do assuming the event is not at the Olympics where it might make more sense.  It dates from a time of gross national mob mentality hysteria (1918) --- exactly the same year that another mob demanded that one Earnest Starr bend down and kiss the flag.  When he refused HE --- not the mob, but the mob's target --- was arrested and sentenced to 10-20 years hard labor ----- for refusing to go along with the mob.  That mob was charged with..... nothing.  And THAT is the lesson here, because that's where blind robotic obsequious zombified mob mentality leads.

I find it quite significant that the idea of attaching the national anthem to a sports event (read: a large gathering of a captive audience) happened at the same time people were getting arrested for "sedition" and hard labor for refusing a mob's demands.  And that in the next year more people were getting deported for their political beliefs in the infamous Palmer Raids.  That's all related.  What we really should be doing during a national anthem at a sporting event is waving flags with Earnest Starr's picture on them, with the caption "Never Again" -- and observe the real significance of what's going on.




Montrovant said:


> If Aaron Rodgers knelt during the anthem, would he have a job?



He should.  And maybe he does, or maybe somebody else does or did, but we just didn't have a hack reporter trying to milk fake-outrage out of it.




Montrovant said:


> Absolutely.  Kaepernick was not a good enough QB to get away with rocking the boat the way he did.



His skills or lack thereof are still in no way related to whether he has a right to decline to play the part of marionette.

Herein lies the irony ---- the fake-outrage dolts are bemoaning the fact that here in an exercise of mob mentality coercion, here's a guy who declines to play it, and their objection is on the basis that mob mentality coercion is a "good thing".  Because, again, they've been told it is and they can't lift a synapse to think for themselves.  So they bleat the Establishment line, all together --- an obedient mob who love them some coercion, as long as it means taking orders without being given a good reason to take them.


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.
> 
> I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.
> 
> What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies.
> 
> The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And your youth games were the same as the NFL?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same game, yup.  So were the other sports.  Underlining the point that NOWHERE is it necessary to play any national anthem in order to play a game of football (baseball, basketball, etc).  *It is not part of the game*.  It's not in any way related.  And I'm refuting those klowns here who want to pretend that it is.
> 
> Matter of fact you're about to agree that it's irrelevant later in this post.  And you'll be right.
> 
> Why don't we have to wait through a national anthem when we go to a music concert?  A movie?  A play?  The grocery store?  It would be equally irrelevant and make the same amount of sense, i.e. Zero.  But then again the concert halls and theaters and grocery stores haven't been pimped out by the Pentagon to put on charades, have they.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, outside of the issue of kneeling players, this idea that the players are only on the job from the start of play until the final whistle is ridiculous.  I am confident that no NFL player has a contract stipulating that they are only employees during game time.  When an NFL player is on the field wearing their team's uniform, they are doing so as employees of the NFL.  Kaepernick was kneeling while at work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, NFL players are contractors, not 'employees'.  And of course the requirements of that contract require much more than the 60 minutes of play --- practice squads and workouts, suiting up, travel, etc.  But nobody is contracted to be a marionette for a Pentagon-pimped fake-patriotism display.  It's got (again) Zero to do with the game, with practicing for the game, with travelling to the game, or any other aspect of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The anthem may not be during the game, but it is part of the overall package of an NFL game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the league's problem.  They let it happen in the first place, and now they've got to deal with the consequences.  And again players weren't even ON the field during it, until less than a decade ago.  And again again, nobody who hadn't been personally TO an NFL game would have even known it was done at all, since it's also not part of the telecasts, so now we've got the naked hypocrisy of fake-outrage about fake-patriotism being obediently droned by the unwashed who were ordered to play the part, and fall all over themselves to Obey.  Which is disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about kneeling players.  They can kneel or not during the anthem.  I don't watch the games to get their personal political or social views.  That said, if the NFL wants to require players to stand during the anthem at games, they can do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, they don't.
> 
> I don't care about sitting/kneeling players (or fans or anybody) either.  They, and I, will do what we want.  But I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be outraged because some media hack(s) and some political demagogue(s) demand I do without giving any good reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> There may not currently be a rule requiring players to stand, but there is a guideline saying they should stand.
> 
> If the NFL owners got together and decided as a group not to hire Kaepernick, they deserve to be punished for that.  If he isn't being hired because of the negative publicity surrounding him, and it isn't because of any sort of hidden group decision to blackball him, that's just a consequence of his own actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe he's got a lawsuit making that case.  I don't know what its status is but that's NFL business, not mine.  As for the "negative publicity", it matters whether that "negative publicity" is real or fake.   Just as the Pentagon-pimped fake displays matter.  It's imperative to pick out the real from contrived demagoguery.  Fakery is fakery.
> 
> That's why I keep railing on these klowns to explain the "reasoning" behind the fake outrage.  They can't do it --- ergo fake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find the tradition of playing the national anthem during sporting events a very odd one.  They seem like very unconnected events.  That doesn't mean Kaepernick (or any other player) can kneel during the anthem at games without any consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it does mean that.  Or more correctly it does NOT mean he can't.
> 
> And again Kaepernick was already sitting out the anthem for several games before anyone noticed and tried to milk a fake-outrage "story" out of t.  And those games somehow went on like any other game.  Nobody got into this fake-outrage play-acting until they were TOLD to.
> 
> Again, I've been to many a baseball game and have never once stood for a national anthem.  Nobody tried to milk a story out of me, nobody declined to sell me a ticket to another game --- matter of fact, nobody ever said or did a damn thing.  Which is as it should be.
> 
> It is indeed an odd thing to do assuming the event is not at the Olympics where it might make more sense.  It dates from a time of gross national mob mentality hysteria (1918) --- exactly the same year that another mob demanded that one Earnest Starr bend down and kiss the flag.  When he refused HE --- not the mob, but the mob's target --- was arrested and sentenced to 10-20 years hard labor ----- for refusing to go along with the mob.  That mob was charged with..... nothing.  And THAT is the lesson here, because that's where blind robotic obsequious zombified mob mentality leads.
> 
> I find it quite significant that the idea of attaching the national anthem to a sports event (read: a large gathering of a captive audience) happened at the same time people were getting arrested for "sedition" and hard labor for refusing a mob's demands.  And that in the next year more people were getting deported for their political beliefs in the infamous Palmer Raids.  That's all related.  What we really should be doing during a national anthem at a sporting event is waving flags with Earnest Starr's picture on them, with the caption "Never Again" -- and observe the real significance of what's going on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Aaron Rodgers knelt during the anthem, would he have a job?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He should.  And maybe he does, or maybe somebody else does or did, but we just didn't have a hack reporter trying to milk fake-outrage out of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely.  Kaepernick was not a good enough QB to get away with rocking the boat the way he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His skills or lack thereof are still in no way related to whether he has a right to decline to play the part of marionette.
> 
> Herein lies the irony ---- the fake-outrage dolts are bemoaning the fact that here in an exercise of mob mentality coercion, here's a guy who declines to play it, and their objection is on the basis that mob mentality coercion is a "good thing".  Because, again, they've been told it is and they can't lift a synapse to think for themselves.  So they bleat the Establishment line, all together --- an obedient mob who love them some coercion, as long as it means taking orders without being given a good reason to take them.
Click to expand...


We've discussed this before, and I agree that the outrage about Kaepernick kneeling seems silly and contrived.  On the other hand, I don't doubt that many people are honestly upset by his actions.

Kaepernick has a right to sit or kneel during the anthem.  NFL teams have a right to decide that his kneeling, combined with a variety of other factors, make him not worth signing.

Call NFL players employees or contractors, the point remains the same: the NFL has pretty broad authority to determine the the conduct of the players.  Players have been fired for off-the-field conduct; things that happen during the private time of players.  Players have been cut for being arrested, without having been convicted of anything.  Players may have the right to protest as citizens, but that does not mean the NFL has to allow such protest from its players.

The national anthem is not integral to playing football.  The NFL can decide that they want it played during games, and they can decide that players need to stand while it is played, regardless of how little the anthem has to do with the sport.  Put another way, the national anthem is not a part of football, but it can be part of the NFL.  Silly or not, playing the national anthem before sporting events is now a pretty normal part of American culture.  Kaepernick may not have knelt during the actual game, but he did kneel during a portion of a sports event.

I agree in large part with your take on the playing of the anthem during sports events.  I disagree with the impression you present that Kaepernick was not kneeling while representing the NFL.


----------



## Bush92

jillian said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh nooooo! how dare someone stand up against unarmed young men being shot for no reason.
> 
> you people are so disgusting.
Click to expand...

Sure. It’s a real problem in our society. BTW, last night while you slept...another cop was killed. Working high crime neighborhoods that are the result of Democrats creating them.


----------



## Bush92

LA RAM FAN said:


> I wish ALL professional athletes in ALL pro sports would start kneeling. as long as we have a corrupt evil government on our hands there is no way in hell I will ever salute the flag because when you do so you are saluting a corrupt government that is WHY when they do play the national anthem at sports,.i head for the restroom.
> 
> I am not going to salute some propaganda lie bullshit song the land of the free when the FACTS are it is the land of the OPPRESSED with everything that was taught to us in history classes to be an outright LIE that we were indoctrinated with.


 Fucking crybaby idiot.


----------



## Pogo

BlackSand said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Progressive doesn't tack on any 'added taxes/fees'.  Flo hooks me up.
> 
> That's because I know how to treat a lady in a lab coat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you bought a car, registered it and didn't pay tax, title and license ...
Click to expand...

 
Not to Flo, hell no.


----------



## Darkwind

ABikerSailor said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His job isn't to stand for the anthem, his job doesn't start until the clock start and the game begins.
Click to expand...

He is on the clock the moment he enters the stadium.


----------



## Pogo

BlueGin said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time to keep politics and religion out of sports.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.
> 
> I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.
> 
> What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies.
> 
> The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry Pogo but you are wrong. If you are employed by the NFL and under contract you are on the job the second you sign on the dotted line and especially while in uniform.
Click to expand...


And that job has nothing to do with music.  Does it.


----------



## Pogo

Dschrute3 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO YOUR JOB!
> 
> Live like the rest of us do. Just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, does't mean he's special. He can do his political protesting on his own personal time. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the reason he was able to get  a job with an NFL team is because he IS "special".  Are you capable of running as fast and throwing a football as well as him?  Are you capable of the physical fitness that is required to do his job?
> 
> If you were, you would be in the NFL.  Many people want to play for a professional football team, but the problem is, not many are capable of the physical fitness requirements.
> 
> Kaepernick earned his place in the NFL.  Too bad that some of you idiots are incapable of seeing that, as well as too  bad that you don't understand what the First Amendment stands for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's his own biggest problem. He's immature and unprofessional. It's why he could never advance his game to the next level. And no, just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, doesn't mean he's better than you and me.
> 
> At best, the kid is now a bench warmer. But i can understand why teams don't wanna bring him in. Why bring a whiny Snowflake in as a backup QB? They can find numerous QB's to fill that position. Football is a business. They don't want immature unprofessional folks. Why pay someone to be a problem? I'm fine with protesting, just do it on your own personal time. When you're at work, just do your job. Period, end of story.
Click to expand...


What you're (deliberately) misstating is that he's not "doing" a damn thing.  He's *refusing to* do something.  Something expected by coercion, for no good reason, that has ZERO to do with what he's actually there to do.

You're whining because here's  guy who refuses to be a sheep, something for which you don't have the stones.


----------



## Rambunctious

I still contend he didn't stand for the Anthem that first day partly because he had just been told he would not be starting the game...he was pissed and that is the real reason he didn't stand...it was only the next day he came out with this anti cop shit and his girlfriend bought the pig socks for him and helped pushed his ass right out of any chance of playing in the NFL again....


----------



## Pogo

Correll said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh nooooo! how dare someone stand up against unarmed young men being shot for no reason.
> 
> you people are so disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He disrespected the Flag and the nation is stood for, and all it's citizens.
Click to expand...


And yet you cannot explain *HOW*.  And there's a reason you can't.  It's because your entire butthurt is based on emotion, not on rationality.  And that means you have no argument.




Correll said:


> And the fans, who are mostly citizens, did not like it.


Congratulations on the appointment as official spokescreature for "the fans" but to the extent the description fits any of them ---- same thing applies.




Correll said:


> Truly, imo, the owners are just as much fuckos as he is, because they pandered to this anti-American shit, until it started to hurt their bottom line.



Now you're getting it.  Had the owners now bent over for these fake Pentagon charades, there would have been no national anthem to sit out in the first place and none of this demagoguery would exist.  That blame can be shared with whoever the hack reporter was who first tried to milk a story out of seeing a player sitting out the anthem (horrors) ---- a reporter who, it should be noted, must have himself been ignoring the whole fake robot-genuflection exercise in order to find Kaepernick in the first place.  Wasn't that reporter "disrespecting the flag" (your term) by trolling around for bullshit stories to sell papers?

Oh but that's OK right?  And the Pentagon  pimping fake-patriotism charades, that's OK too right?  And the NFL running an irrelevant anthem before its games --- none of these things is "injecting politics into football", right?  Not when you have an uppity you can single out, hell no.

Having it both ways: Priceless.  Freaking hypocrite.


----------



## BlueGin

Pogo said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Exactly why this asshole is out of a job. The public doesn't like political statements during sports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.
> 
> I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.
> 
> What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies.
> 
> The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry Pogo but you are wrong. If you are employed by the NFL and under contract you are on the job the second you sign on the dotted line and especially while in uniform.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that job has nothing to do with music.  Does it.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. They are in the stadium wearing an NFL uniform. Hence...on the job.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN it's not 'during sports" at all.  There is nothing in a football (baseball, soccer etc etc) game that requires or even suggests anybody's national anthem, NOR is it done during any game, which begins at the kickoff (or first pitch etc).  And when NFL does it it's not even part of the broadcast, nor should it be.  Which means nobody even sees any of this unless they happen to be at the game and happen to be looking around for something to whine about.  The vast majority watching on some electronic device didn't even know football players were out there for a national anthem, which has only been going on less than a decade anyway.
> 
> In other words these are robots playing the "I'm offended" game only because the System ordered them to do that, and it never occurred to them to say, "yeah? Why?".
> 
> And that is mind control.
> 
> 
> 
> It's part of the opening of the game. Fans who paid to see the game are in the stadium for said game ( a captive audience). To imply that it's not part of "the game" is dishonest semantics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No dear.  It isn't.  The game begins with the kickoff.  PERIOD.
> 
> I played football (and baseball) all through my youth and not one had a frickin' national anthem in it.  And guess what --- they all counted.
> 
> What's going on here is a jingoistic charade for zombies.
> 
> The baseball iteration is the most ironic, where a stadium full of zombies obediently go through the motions and then sit down to watch a field of players from Panama and Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and Japan and Korea and Australia and Curaçao and Colombia and Taiwan and the DR and Canada, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And your youth games were the same as the NFL?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Same game, yup.  So were the other sports.  Underlining the point that NOWHERE is it necessary to play any national anthem in order to play a game of football (baseball, basketball, etc).  *It is not part of the game*.  It's not in any way related.  And I'm refuting those klowns here who want to pretend that it is.
> 
> Matter of fact you're about to agree that it's irrelevant later in this post.  And you'll be right.
> 
> Why don't we have to wait through a national anthem when we go to a music concert?  A movie?  A play?  The grocery store?  It would be equally irrelevant and make the same amount of sense, i.e. Zero.  But then again the concert halls and theaters and grocery stores haven't been pimped out by the Pentagon to put on charades, have they.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, outside of the issue of kneeling players, this idea that the players are only on the job from the start of play until the final whistle is ridiculous.  I am confident that no NFL player has a contract stipulating that they are only employees during game time.  When an NFL player is on the field wearing their team's uniform, they are doing so as employees of the NFL.  Kaepernick was kneeling while at work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, NFL players are contractors, not 'employees'.  And of course the requirements of that contract require much more than the 60 minutes of play --- practice squads and workouts, suiting up, travel, etc.  But nobody is contracted to be a marionette for a Pentagon-pimped fake-patriotism display.  It's got (again) Zero to do with the game, with practicing for the game, with travelling to the game, or any other aspect of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The anthem may not be during the game, but it is part of the overall package of an NFL game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the league's problem.  They let it happen in the first place, and now they've got to deal with the consequences.  And again players weren't even ON the field during it, until less than a decade ago.  And again again, nobody who hadn't been personally TO an NFL game would have even known it was done at all, since it's also not part of the telecasts, so now we've got the naked hypocrisy of fake-outrage about fake-patriotism being obediently droned by the unwashed who were ordered to play the part, and fall all over themselves to Obey.  Which is disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about kneeling players.  They can kneel or not during the anthem.  I don't watch the games to get their personal political or social views.  That said, if the NFL wants to require players to stand during the anthem at games, they can do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, they don't.
> 
> I don't care about sitting/kneeling players (or fans or anybody) either.  They, and I, will do what we want.  But I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be outraged because some media hack(s) and some political demagogue(s) demand I do without giving any good reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> There may not currently be a rule requiring players to stand, but there is a guideline saying they should stand.
> 
> If the NFL owners got together and decided as a group not to hire Kaepernick, they deserve to be punished for that.  If he isn't being hired because of the negative publicity surrounding him, and it isn't because of any sort of hidden group decision to blackball him, that's just a consequence of his own actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe he's got a lawsuit making that case.  I don't know what its status is but that's NFL business, not mine.  As for the "negative publicity", it matters whether that "negative publicity" is real or fake.   Just as the Pentagon-pimped fake displays matter.  It's imperative to pick out the real from contrived demagoguery.  Fakery is fakery.
> 
> That's why I keep railing on these klowns to explain the "reasoning" behind the fake outrage.  They can't do it --- ergo fake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find the tradition of playing the national anthem during sporting events a very odd one.  They seem like very unconnected events.  That doesn't mean Kaepernick (or any other player) can kneel during the anthem at games without any consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it does mean that.  Or more correctly it does NOT mean he can't.
> 
> And again Kaepernick was already sitting out the anthem for several games before anyone noticed and tried to milk a fake-outrage "story" out of t.  And those games somehow went on like any other game.  Nobody got into this fake-outrage play-acting until they were TOLD to.
> 
> Again, I've been to many a baseball game and have never once stood for a national anthem.  Nobody tried to milk a story out of me, nobody declined to sell me a ticket to another game --- matter of fact, nobody ever said or did a damn thing.  Which is as it should be.
> 
> It is indeed an odd thing to do assuming the event is not at the Olympics where it might make more sense.  It dates from a time of gross national mob mentality hysteria (1918) --- exactly the same year that another mob demanded that one Earnest Starr bend down and kiss the flag.  When he refused HE --- not the mob, but the mob's target --- was arrested and sentenced to 10-20 years hard labor ----- for refusing to go along with the mob.  That mob was charged with..... nothing.  And THAT is the lesson here, because that's where blind robotic obsequious zombified mob mentality leads.
> 
> I find it quite significant that the idea of attaching the national anthem to a sports event (read: a large gathering of a captive audience) happened at the same time people were getting arrested for "sedition" and hard labor for refusing a mob's demands.  And that in the next year more people were getting deported for their political beliefs in the infamous Palmer Raids.  That's all related.  What we really should be doing during a national anthem at a sporting event is waving flags with Earnest Starr's picture on them, with the caption "Never Again" -- and observe the real significance of what's going on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Aaron Rodgers knelt during the anthem, would he have a job?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He should.  And maybe he does, or maybe somebody else does or did, but we just didn't have a hack reporter trying to milk fake-outrage out of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely.  Kaepernick was not a good enough QB to get away with rocking the boat the way he did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His skills or lack thereof are still in no way related to whether he has a right to decline to play the part of marionette.
> 
> Herein lies the irony ---- the fake-outrage dolts are bemoaning the fact that here in an exercise of mob mentality coercion, here's a guy who declines to play it, and their objection is on the basis that mob mentality coercion is a "good thing".  Because, again, they've been told it is and they can't lift a synapse to think for themselves.  So they bleat the Establishment line, all together --- an obedient mob who love them some coercion, as long as it means taking orders without being given a good reason to take them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We've discussed this before, and I agree that the outrage about Kaepernick kneeling seems silly and contrived.  On the other hand, I don't doubt that many people are honestly upset by his actions.
Click to expand...


Clearly there are those who profess to be, as represented in this thread.  That, we already knew.  But do they have a good _reason _---- or are they just doing what they're told?

That's why my first question to them has always been, and still is, to EXPLAIN it.  To give some _rational basis_.  No such basis has ever appeared, and (again) to be expected.  When the mob assembles for the purpose of burning a witch it's running on emotion, and not reason.  The two are incompatible.



Montrovant said:


> Kaepernick has a right to sit or kneel during the anthem.  NFL teams have a right to decide that his kneeling, combined with a variety of other factors, make him not worth signing.
> 
> Call NFL players employees or contractors, the point remains the same: the NFL has pretty broad authority to determine the the conduct of the players.  Players have been fired for off-the-field conduct; things that happen during the private time of players.  Players have been cut for being arrested, without having been convicted of anything.  Players may have the right to protest as citizens, but that does not mean the NFL has to allow such protest from its players.



Once AGAIN, what's being described here is_ not an 'action_' but an _inaction_. It's _declining to take_ an action.  When Earnest Starr refuses the mob's demand to kiss a flag, _Earnest Starr is not the one taking an action_.  The actor is the mob; Starr is just its target.

As far as the NFL, obviously the owners therein can staff their teams as they see fit, on whatever criteria they have.  My interest here has nothing to do with that, but rather with the coercion of forced behaviour by the mob and why that is unacceptable.





Montrovant said:


> The national anthem is not integral to playing football.  The NFL can decide that they want it played during games, and they can decide that players need to stand while it is played, regardless of how little the anthem has to do with the sport.  Put another way, the national anthem is not a part of football, but it can be part of the NFL.  Silly or not, playing the national anthem before sporting events is now a pretty normal part of American culture.  Kaepernick may not have knelt during the actual game, but he did kneel during a portion of a sports event.



There is nothng "normal" about blind robotic mob mentality unless we live in North Korea.  The fact that something has happened repeatedly in the past is in no way a reason it needs to continue, and in no way a reason nobody should dare to ask, "wait-- _*why*_ are we doing this?"

And no, the national anthem cannot be described as "a sports event" so nobody knelt during a sports event except those quarterbacks with possession of the ball and a lead with 31 seconds left --- now that kind of kneeling I can actually make a case to be offended by.  _That _kind of kneeling is cowardice, and it disrespects the game and the spirit of competition.  



Montrovant said:


> I agree in large part with your take on the playing of the anthem during sports events.  I disagree with the impression you present that Kaepernick was not kneeling while representing the NFL.



I don't think I said that and it's not what I think was going on.  Rather (again see above) I think he was *declining *to engage in a pretentious flummery.  And again the NFL _does not require it_ anyway.  Just as there was no law _requiring _Earnest Starr to kiss a flag. _ That's the mob talking_.

I really don't get how the mob acquired so many apologists.  Mob mentality is *NEVER* a good thing.  That's where lynchings come from.  That's where Earnest Starr going to prison for being a victim of one comes from.  That's where taking a Dachshund from its owner and stoning it to death on the street because the breed has a German name comes from. That's where the Third Reich came from.  ANY time a mob is calling the shots it is the *duty *of any and every citizen to at the very least question it and if appropriate, defy them.  "We are a nation of laws", not mobs.


----------



## Dr Grump

Bush92 said:


> [
> FroBro is a no talent reject with anti-American political views.




FroBro is a talented player with anti-Conservative political view.

There, fixed it for you..


----------



## Pogo

Rambunctious said:


> I still contend he didn't stand for the Anthem that first day partly because he had just been told he would not be starting the game...he was pissed and that is the real reason he didn't stand...it was only the next day he came out with this anti cop shit and his girlfriend bought the pig socks for him and helped pushed his ass right out of any chance of playing in the NFL again....



Could be, but whatever his reason was for sitting out the anthem (and it wasn't "that day", it was a regular thing until some hack reporter contrived a fake 'story' out of it) is irrelevant.  Could have been meditating.  Maybe he had to fart.  Who knows or cares.

The relevant part of your post though is at the end, where you suggest the mob can and will punish those who decline to fall in line with the prescribed attitude through blackballing.  Shades of the "Red Scare".  Isn't Joe McCarthy supposed to be dead?


----------



## BlackSand

Pogo said:


> Not to Flo, hell no.



What you and Flo do in the privacy of your bedroom is none of our business.


.​


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Once AGAIN, what's being described here is_ not an 'action_' but an _inaction_. It's _declining to take_ an action. When Earnest Starr refuses the mob's demand to kiss a flag, _Earnest Starr is not the one taking an action_. The actor is the mob; Starr is just its target.
> 
> As far as the NFL, obviously the owners therein can staff their teams as they see fit, on whatever criteria they have. My interest here has nothing to do with that, but rather with the coercion of forced behaviour by the mob and why that is unacceptable.



The semantics of this don't really matter to the overall point.  Further, while not standing may be an inaction, it was something he did as a conscious decision.  It's not like he just didn't feel like standing up at that moment; sitting was an intentional act of protest, per his own words.

The NFL already coerces certain behaviors from its players, almost certainly based on an attempt to create a particular perception in the fans.  I don't see why this is all that different.  As far as how people react to players not standing for the anthem, people will think and feel about that what they will.  



Pogo said:


> There is nothng "normal" about blind robotic mob mentality unless we live in North Korea. The fact that something has happened repeatedly in the past is in no way a reason it needs to continue, and in no way a reason nobody should dare to ask, "wait-- _*why*_ are we doing this?"
> 
> And no, the national anthem cannot be described as "a sports event" so nobody knelt during a sports event except those quarterbacks with possession of the ball and a lead with 31 seconds left --- now that kind of kneeling I can actually make a case to be offended by. _That _kind of kneeling is cowardice, and it disrespects the game and the spirit of competition.



Now you're just being silly.  There are all kinds of pointless activities and rituals that are part of any given culture.  They often don't make sense, yet they remain.  That's just the apparent reality of having human societies.  Why do Americans consider tipping important, almost a requirement, at a restaurant?  Why are men mostly limited to a suit and tie when it comes to formal clothing?  Why are women in skirts and dresses acceptable, but not men?  Why is nudity taboo in some places but not others?  There are all kinds of cultural quirks.  Having the national anthem played at sporting events is a cultural quirk in the US.

It isn't that the anthem is a sports event, it is that the anthem is *part* of professional sporting events.  You can complain about it as much as you like, the reality is that playing the national anthem is a regular part of sporting events in the US.  If you don't understand that basically from the moment someone enters a stadium to see a game they are part of a sports event, I don't know what to say.



Pogo said:


> I don't think I said that and it's not what I think was going on. Rather (again see above) I think he was *declining *to engage in a pretentious flummery. And again the NFL _does not require it_ anyway. Just as there was no law _requiring _Earnest Starr to kiss a flag. _ That's the mob talking_.
> 
> I really don't get how the mob acquired so many apologists. Mob mentality is *NEVER* a good thing. That's where lynchings come from. That's where Earnest Starr going to prison for being a victim of one comes from. That's where taking a Dachshund from its owner and stoning it to death on the street because the breed has a German name comes from. That's where the Third Reich came from. ANY time a mob is calling the shots it is the *duty *of any and every citizen to at the very least question it and if appropriate, defy them. "We are a nation of laws", not mobs.



Holy hyperbole, Batman!  Equating some people being upset at NFL players kneeling during the national anthem to lynchings is one hell of a stretch.  And clearly the "mob" isn't calling the shots, as the NFL has not implemented a rule that players must stand during the anthem.  In fact, players continued to sit, kneel, and raise fists during the anthem well after Kaepernick stopped playing.  It hasn't been limited to the NFL, either.  So this isn't lynching, this isn't the Nazis, this is some people getting upset over a perceived disrespect.  Sure, there are some idiots who call for making it a law to stand during the anthem; there are internet tough guys who claim they'd assault someone who didn't stand during the anthem; there are those who equate not standing to spitting on the memory of every fallen US soldier.  What you mostly find are people who don't like when someone doesn't stand during the anthem, who find it disrespectful, and perhaps have stopped watching the NFL because of the protesting players.

This issue doesn't even have anything to do with the law.  This is about professional football players, NFL team owners, and fans.  No laws have been broken that I know of, no new laws have been implemented.  And the reality is that, in some contexts, we *are* a nation of mobs.  One might argue that mobs are what determine what gets on television, or in the newspaper.  Mobs determine who gets elected when it's based on popular vote.  And mobs can determine what the NFL decides is proper conduct for its players.

You want to *defy* the people who are upset about kneeling players?  OK, watch the NFL, and buy NFL merchandise, I guess.


----------



## Correll

Pogo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh nooooo! how dare someone stand up against unarmed young men being shot for no reason.
> 
> you people are so disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He disrespected the Flag and the nation is stood for, and all it's citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet you cannot explain *HOW*.  And there's a reason you can't.  It's because your entire butthurt is based on emotion, not on rationality.  And that means you have no argument.
Click to expand...



How? Seriously?

During a ritual where standing is requested as a show of respect, he choose to KNEEL. 

And if you had any doubt, he clarified in his words, that he was doing that, because he did not want to show respect to America, the country.

Do I need to explain to you the connection between America, and Americans?


My offense is emotional. I am offended by blatant anti-Americanism, especially by Americans. 









Correll said:


> And the fans, who are mostly citizens, did not like it.





> Congratulations on the appointment as official spokescreature for "the fans" but to the extent the description fits any of them ---- same thing applies.



As I explained before, the same thing does apply. Kaepernick disrespected all of them.

People who's money, supports the whole industry that Kaepernick, the anti-Americans asshole, and his anti-American asshole fellow players, and the anti-Americans asshole owners, who benefit from that support.

FUCK THEM ALL.






Correll said:


> Truly, imo, the owners are just as much fuckos as he is, because they pandered to this anti-American shit, until it started to hurt their bottom line.



Now you're getting it.  Had the owners now bent over for these fake Pentagon charades, there would have been no national anthem to sit out in the first place and none of this demagoguery would exist.  That blame can be shared with whoever the hack reporter was who first tried to milk a story out of seeing a player sitting out the anthem (horrors) ---- a reporter who, it should be noted, must have himself been ignoring the whole fake robot-genuflection exercise in order to find Kaepernick in the first place.  Wasn't that reporter "disrespecting the flag" (your term) by trolling around for bullshit stories to sell papers?

Oh but that's OK right?  And the Pentagon  pimping fake-patriotism charades, that's OK too right?  And the NFL running an irrelevant anthem before its games --- none of these things is "injecting politics into football", right?  Not when you have an uppity you can single out, hell no.

Having it both ways: Priceless.  Freaking hypocrite.[/QUOTE]


Your issue with the inclusion of the National Anthem in the pre game rituals, is noted. 


It does not excuse Kaepernick's assholeness, nor the assholeness of his fellow players or the owners. 


FUCK THEM ALL.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Dr Grump said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> FroBro is a no talent reject with anti-American political views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FroBro is a talented player with anti-Conservative political view.
> 
> There, fixed it for you..
Click to expand...

If you actually knew anything at all about the N.F.L., you would realize that were he talented enough, he would have a job.  He is wildly inaccurate and has yet to learn how to read a defense. He is demanding a starters salary yet does bring enough to the table to make signing him worth all the negative crap he brings with him.


----------



## Montrovant

Dogmaphobe said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> FroBro is a no talent reject with anti-American political views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FroBro is a talented player with anti-Conservative political view.
> 
> There, fixed it for you..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you actually knew anything at all about the N.F.L., you would realize that were he talented enough, he would have a job.  He is wildly inaccurate and has yet to learn how to read a defense. He is demanding a starters salary yet does bring enough to the table to make signing him worth all the negative crap he brings with him.
Click to expand...


How do you know he is demanding a starter's salary?


----------



## CHAZBUKOWSKI

ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.


You are obviously a liberal commie scum, and not a true Patriot like Donald Trump and his followers.


----------



## Pogo

BlackSand said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to Flo, hell no.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​What you and Flo do in the privacy of your bedroom is none of our business..​
Click to expand...


As far as car insurance I guess you could say I go with the Flo....


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to Flo, hell no.​
> 
> 
> 
> What you and Flo do in the privacy of your bedroom is none of our business..​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as car insurance I guess you could say I go with the Flo....
Click to expand...


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Now you're just being silly. There are all kinds of pointless activities and rituals that are part of any given culture. They often don't make sense, yet they remain. That's just the apparent reality of having human societies.



Of course there are, but if there isn't a valid reason behind them, then there isn't a valid reason behind them.  And if that's the case it means they're *optional*.  And if they're _optional_, then that means "the mob" does NOT have the right to force whatever the behavior is on OTHER people who may choose to opt out of it.

Again --- that's why I immediately ask these klowns to provide a logical basis for their demands that (in this case) everybody has to stand for this jingoism charade that has ZERO to do with what the audience came there for.  And if we're at all honest about causations, the only reason that charade is in there is specifically because there IS an audience, and they're assembled there for a totally different purpose.  Opportunism writ large.

To paraphrase a Sixties meme, what if they had a game and nobody played a national anthem?  Would anybody notice?  And if they did notice and complained that they wanted it, what would be the reasoning behind it?  Again ---- it does not exist.  And if it does not exist, then the mob has no right to demand it.  That's probably as simple as it can be distilled to.




Montrovant said:


> It isn't that the anthem is a sports event, it is that the anthem is *part* of professional sporting events.



Again --- No, it is not.  In the example just stated above where they "forgot" to play the anthem, the game works the same way and the results count the same way too.  It has no bearing on the game whatsoever.

It bears repeating that, until this fake Kaepernick "you will be outraged on command" story bubbled up, the general public _wasn't even aware that the national anthem was played at football games at all_.  There would be no reason to expect that it would, specifically BECAUSE OF its complete irrelevance to playing the game.  And it's not part of a typical NFL telecast.  All of which describes a superfluous event that has no logical reason to exist.

In that, the fake 'story' at least did us a service by exposing that this national anthem charade is out there, in the same way two (Republican) Senators exposed the Pentagon staged-patriotism scandal.  It's helpful to know that this crapola is going on.  And yet none of this apologist mob wants to wag a finger at the government staging Jingo Theater on the taxpayer's dime, nor will they point that finger at the NFL for allowing it to take place in the first place, preferring to look right past all that and accuse the uppity player of "injecting politics into football" ----- when it was provably already there.





Montrovant said:


> Holy hyperbole, Batman! Equating some people being upset at NFL players kneeling during the national anthem to lynchings is one hell of a stretch.



It's disingenuous to suggest I'm equating message board posters whining about somebody who won't go along with their coercion with lynching, witch burnings or any ot my other examples --- but this is the same exclusively emotion-based mentality that cannot be rationally justified, that *leads to* the witch burnings.  The point here is not the_ end result_ ---- it's the *thought process* that _produced _the end result.




Montrovant said:


> And clearly the "mob" isn't calling the shots, as the NFL has not implemented a rule that players must stand during the anthem.



The "mob" in this example is the body of complainants, posters here and in the general public ---- who want to control the behavior of others, with no valid reason for doing so.  At this point I'm saying the same thing over and over so I'm pretty sure I'm consistent on this.




Montrovant said:


> In fact, players continued to sit, kneel, and raise fists during the anthem well after Kaepernick stopped playing. It hasn't been limited to the NFL, either.



Indeed they did.  That was a beautiful thing, for it shows that there still exist those who *won't* be coerced by a mob, or in that case directly, by a demagogue ("fire the sumbitches").  That's a healthy sign.  And its opposite *un*healthy sign is the body of authoritarian-passives who insist that 'all must conform".  That's what we're up against.  It's also what Donald Rump was trying to milk in Alabama, to an audience who largely just obediently swallowed whole without a single critical thought about what was going on there.




Montrovant said:


> You want to *defy* the people who are upset about kneeling players? OK, watch the NFL, and buy NFL merchandise, I guess.



That would be irrelevant.  I really don't care about the NFL or any particular player(s).  My focus is on mob mentality, i.e. to what extent the general public is willing to not only just bend over on command but to then do the commander's bidding and demand that everybody else bend over too.

To quote post 196 above, "Fuck them all".  That post is a perfect example of exactly what I'm pointing out --- a ocmpletely emotion-based diatribe with no rationality to get to its conclusion.

Or take this more succinct example:


CHAZBUKOWSKI said:


> You are obviously a liberal commie scum, and not a true Patriot like Donald Trump and his followers.



See what I mean?  The emotion veritably drips off the page, with no logical content whatsoever.

And that's complete bullshit.

It is (again) the same way --- the same _thought process_ --- that the mob who accosted Earnest Starr was drunk on.  That would be the mob who were charged with nothing while Starr got hard labor.  You can plug in any example you like, light or heavy -- obviously not all of them result in a lynching, not all of them result in people being herded to gas chambers, not all of them result in whiny message board posts about a football player who won't go along with a specious pretense, not all of them result in a hard-labor prison sentence for refusing to kiss a flag ---- all different results.  But they all got to where they got via the same highway.

Another example -- for six decade "the mob" of public standards banned black players from baseball.  "The mob" declared it was wrong, and enforced it until Branch Rickey jabbed a thumb in the eye of the mob and said, "fuck that, meet Jackie Robinson".

(Okay Branch Rickey didn't really talk like that; I'm paraphrasing)

And when Robinson arrived he was opposed by that same mob, in the stands and on the field.  The thumb had to remain in the eye of the mob until it backed down.

That mob never had a valid reason behind its mobbery.  All emotion with no logic.  "Because we've always done it this way" is in no way a valid reasoning.

Happily the mob had to suck it up and accept reality but for the previous six decades it called the shots and excluded black players.  For no good reason whatsoever.

Whelp --- I'm on the side of Branch Rickey.  At some point some sentient being has to stand up and say --- "wait --- *why *are we doing this?"


----------



## Dschrute3

Pogo said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO YOUR JOB!
> 
> Live like the rest of us do. Just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, does't mean he's special. He can do his political protesting on his own personal time. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the reason he was able to get  a job with an NFL team is because he IS "special".  Are you capable of running as fast and throwing a football as well as him?  Are you capable of the physical fitness that is required to do his job?
> 
> If you were, you would be in the NFL.  Many people want to play for a professional football team, but the problem is, not many are capable of the physical fitness requirements.
> 
> Kaepernick earned his place in the NFL.  Too bad that some of you idiots are incapable of seeing that, as well as too  bad that you don't understand what the First Amendment stands for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's his own biggest problem. He's immature and unprofessional. It's why he could never advance his game to the next level. And no, just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, doesn't mean he's better than you and me.
> 
> At best, the kid is now a bench warmer. But i can understand why teams don't wanna bring him in. Why bring a whiny Snowflake in as a backup QB? They can find numerous QB's to fill that position. Football is a business. They don't want immature unprofessional folks. Why pay someone to be a problem? I'm fine with protesting, just do it on your own personal time. When you're at work, just do your job. Period, end of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you're (deliberately) misstating is that he's not "doing" a damn thing.  He's *refusing to* do something.  Something expected by coercion, for no good reason, that has ZERO to do with what he's actually there to do.
> 
> You're whining because here's  guy who refuses to be a sheep, something for which you don't have the stones.
Click to expand...


Immature and unprofessional. That sums him up. At best, he can only be a bench warmer now. He perfectly epitomizes the entitled Democrat Snowflake mentality. Businesses don't want them.


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're just being silly. There are all kinds of pointless activities and rituals that are part of any given culture. They often don't make sense, yet they remain. That's just the apparent reality of having human societies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there are, but if there isn't a valid reason behind them, then there isn't a valid reason behind them.  And if that's the case it means they're *optional*.  And if they're _optional_, then that means "the mob" does NOT have the right to force whatever the behavior is on OTHER people who may choose to opt out of it.
> 
> Again --- that's why I immediately ask these klowns to provide a logical basis for their demands that (in this case) everybody has to stand for this jingoism charade that has ZERO to do with what the audience came there for.  And if we're at all honest about causations, the only reason that charade is in there is specifically because there IS an audience, and they're assembled there for a totally different purpose.  Opportunism writ large.
> 
> To paraphrase a Sixties meme, what if they had a game and nobody played a national anthem?  Would anybody notice?  And if they did notice and complained that they wanted it, what would be the reasoning behind it?  Again ---- it does not exist.  And if it does not exist, then the mob has no right to demand it.  That's probably as simple as it can be distilled to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't that the anthem is a sports event, it is that the anthem is *part* of professional sporting events.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again --- No, it is not.  In the example just stated above where they "forgot" to play the anthem, the game works the same way and the results count the same way too.  It has no bearing on the game whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy hyperbole, Batman! Equating some people being upset at NFL players kneeling during the national anthem to lynchings is one hell of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's disingenuous to suggest I'm equating message board posters whining about somebody who won't go along with their coercion with lynching, witch burnings or any ot my other examples --- but this is the same exclusively emotion-based mentality that cannot be rationally justified, that *leads to* the witch burnings.  The point here is not the_ end result_ ---- it's the *thought process* that _produced _the end result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> And clearly the "mob" isn't calling the shots, as the NFL has not implemented a rule that players must stand during the anthem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "mob" in this example is the body of complainants, posters here and in the general public ---- who want to control the behavior of others, with no valid reason for doing so.  At this point I'm saying the same thing over and over so I'm pretty sure I'm consistent on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, players continued to sit, kneel, and raise fists during the anthem well after Kaepernick stopped playing. It hasn't been limited to the NFL, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed they did.  That was a beautiful thing, for it shows that there still exist those who *won't* be coerced by a mob, or in that case directly, by a demagogue ("fire the sumbitches").  That's a healthy sign.  And its opposite *un*healthy sign is the body of authoritarian-passives who insist that 'all must conform".  That's what we're up against.  It's also what Donald Rump was trying to milk in Alabama, to an audience who largely just obediently swallowed whole without a single critical thought about what was going on there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to *defy* the people who are upset about kneeling players? OK, watch the NFL, and buy NFL merchandise, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be irrelevant.  I really don't care about the NFL or any particular player(s).  My focus is on mob mentality, i.e. to what extent the general public is willing to not only just bend over on command but to then do the commander's bidding and demand that everybody else bend over too.
> 
> To quote post 196 above, "Fuck them all".  That post is a perfect example of exactly what I'm pointing out --- a ocmpletely emotion-based diatribe with no rationality to get to its conclusion.
> 
> And that's complete bullshit.
> 
> It is (again) the same way --- the same _thought process_ --- that the mob who accosted Earnest Starr was drunk on.  That would be the mob who were charged with nothing while Starr got hard labor.  You can plug in any example you like, light or heavy -- obviously not all of them result in a lynching, not all of them result in people being herded to gas chambers, not all of them result in whiny message board posts about a football player who won't go along with a specious pretense --- all different results.  But they all got to where they got on the same highway.
Click to expand...


Whether or not there is a valid reason to stand during the anthem is entirely subjective.  Valid and rational or logical are not the same thing.

It isn't disingenuous to say you are comparing message board posters with lynchings, when you do exactly that.  You have called those who want players to stand during the anthem a mob, then compared their thinking (which, in effect, is comparing them) to people who committed lynchings, and to Nazis.  What is disingenuous is to claim that when you compare the way one person (or a group of people) thinks to the way another person (or group of people) thinks, that you are not comparing those people.

You continue to have an issue understanding that a sporting event is not simply the game being played.  To use the Olympics as an example, since you have brought it up before, the opening ceremony of the Olympics is part of that sporting event.  It isn't a sport, nor a competition, yet it is still part of the sports event.

Playing the national anthem does not have to happen at every professional sports event to be a normal part of professional sports events.  

I think, at this point, you're doomed to be disappointed when it comes to national anthems at sports events; they are here to stay for at least the immediate future.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're just being silly. There are all kinds of pointless activities and rituals that are part of any given culture. They often don't make sense, yet they remain. That's just the apparent reality of having human societies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there are, but if there isn't a valid reason behind them, then there isn't a valid reason behind them.  And if that's the case it means they're *optional*.  And if they're _optional_, then that means "the mob" does NOT have the right to force whatever the behavior is on OTHER people who may choose to opt out of it.
> 
> Again --- that's why I immediately ask these klowns to provide a logical basis for their demands that (in this case) everybody has to stand for this jingoism charade that has ZERO to do with what the audience came there for.  And if we're at all honest about causations, the only reason that charade is in there is specifically because there IS an audience, and they're assembled there for a totally different purpose.  Opportunism writ large.
> 
> To paraphrase a Sixties meme, what if they had a game and nobody played a national anthem?  Would anybody notice?  And if they did notice and complained that they wanted it, what would be the reasoning behind it?  Again ---- it does not exist.  And if it does not exist, then the mob has no right to demand it.  That's probably as simple as it can be distilled to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't that the anthem is a sports event, it is that the anthem is *part* of professional sporting events.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again --- No, it is not.  In the example just stated above where they "forgot" to play the anthem, the game works the same way and the results count the same way too.  It has no bearing on the game whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy hyperbole, Batman! Equating some people being upset at NFL players kneeling during the national anthem to lynchings is one hell of a stretch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's disingenuous to suggest I'm equating message board posters whining about somebody who won't go along with their coercion with lynching, witch burnings or any ot my other examples --- but this is the same exclusively emotion-based mentality that cannot be rationally justified, that *leads to* the witch burnings.  The point here is not the_ end result_ ---- it's the *thought process* that _produced _the end result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> And clearly the "mob" isn't calling the shots, as the NFL has not implemented a rule that players must stand during the anthem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "mob" in this example is the body of complainants, posters here and in the general public ---- who want to control the behavior of others, with no valid reason for doing so.  At this point I'm saying the same thing over and over so I'm pretty sure I'm consistent on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, players continued to sit, kneel, and raise fists during the anthem well after Kaepernick stopped playing. It hasn't been limited to the NFL, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed they did.  That was a beautiful thing, for it shows that there still exist those who *won't* be coerced by a mob, or in that case directly, by a demagogue ("fire the sumbitches").  That's a healthy sign.  And its opposite *un*healthy sign is the body of authoritarian-passives who insist that 'all must conform".  That's what we're up against.  It's also what Donald Rump was trying to milk in Alabama, to an audience who largely just obediently swallowed whole without a single critical thought about what was going on there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to *defy* the people who are upset about kneeling players? OK, watch the NFL, and buy NFL merchandise, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be irrelevant.  I really don't care about the NFL or any particular player(s).  My focus is on mob mentality, i.e. to what extent the general public is willing to not only just bend over on command but to then do the commander's bidding and demand that everybody else bend over too.
> 
> To quote post 196 above, "Fuck them all".  That post is a perfect example of exactly what I'm pointing out --- a ocmpletely emotion-based diatribe with no rationality to get to its conclusion.
> 
> And that's complete bullshit.
> 
> It is (again) the same way --- the same _thought process_ --- that the mob who accosted Earnest Starr was drunk on.  That would be the mob who were charged with nothing while Starr got hard labor.  You can plug in any example you like, light or heavy -- obviously not all of them result in a lynching, not all of them result in people being herded to gas chambers, not all of them result in whiny message board posts about a football player who won't go along with a specious pretense --- all different results.  But they all got to where they got on the same highway.
> 
> Another example -- for six decade "the mob" of public standards banned black players from baseball. "The mob" declared it was wrong, and enforced it until Branch Rickey jabbed a thumb in the eye of the mob and said, "fuck that, meet Jackie Robinson".
> 
> (Okay Branch Rickey didn't really talk like that; I'm paraphrasing)
> 
> And when Robinson arrived he was opposed by that same mob, in the stands and on the field. The thumb had to remain in the eye of the mob until it backed down.
> 
> That mob never had a valid reason behind its mobbery. All emotion with no logic. "Because we've always done it this way" is in no way a valid reasoning.
> 
> Happily the mob had to suck it up and accept reality but for the previous six decades it called the shots and excluded black players. For no good reason whatsoever.
> 
> Whelp --- I'm on the side of Branch Rickey. At some point some sentient being has to stand up and say --- "wait --- why are we doing this?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whether or not there is a valid reason to stand during the anthem is entirely subjective.  Valid and rational or logical are not the same thing.
> 
> It isn't disingenuous to say you are comparing message board posters with lynchings, when you do exactly that.  You have called those who want players to stand during the anthem a mob, then compared their thinking (which, in effect, is comparing them) to people who committed lynchings, and to Nazis.  What is disingenuous is to claim that when you compare the way one person (or a group of people) thinks to the way another person (or group of people) thinks, that you are not comparing those people.
> 
> You continue to have an issue understanding that a sporting event is not simply the game being played.  To use the Olympics as an example, since you have brought it up before, the opening ceremony of the Olympics is part of that sporting event.  It isn't a sport, nor a competition, yet it is still part of the sports event.
> 
> Playing the national anthem does not have to happen at every professional sports event to be a normal part of professional sports events.
> 
> I think, at this point, you're doomed to be disappointed when it comes to national anthems at sports events; they are here to stay for at least the immediate future.
Click to expand...


What I get from this is an image of throwing up one's hands and capitulating instead of facing the issue.  Banning black baseball players was "here to stay at least for the immediate future" too.  So was burning witches, etc etc etc etc etc.  Again that is in no way a reason for it to _continue_.  You're basically falling back on the old "because we've always done it this way".  And that is simply not good enough.  It is in fact, not a reason at all.




Montrovant said:


> It isn't disingenuous to say you are comparing message board posters with lynchings, when you do exactly that. You have called those who want players to stand during the anthem a mob, then compared their thinking (which, in effect, is comparing them) to people who committed lynchings, and to Nazis.



Actually I already covered that, explaining above that the comparison was one of _thought processes_, not people.  You've acknowledged here that I said that and then gone back and called the the same thing.  Well NO they're NOT the same thing; you're ignoring the point.  If they were the same thing it would not have been necessary (or possible) to delineate the distinction.

When a rhetorical comparison isn't being heard it's necessary to invoke the extreme to demonstrate that comparison, because the more extreme the example, the more obvious is the comparative point..  In our culture and time Hitler is about as extreme as there is.  Yet you're still not hearing it.

The distinction is that the mentality DRIVES the people.  To use my previous metaphor they're "drunk" on it.  That doesn't mean the alcohol is "the same thing" as the alcohol*ic*.

Follow me?

Ever heard the expression, "love the sinner, hate the sin"?


----------



## Pogo

Dschrute3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO YOUR JOB!
> 
> Live like the rest of us do. Just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, does't mean he's special. He can do his political protesting on his own personal time. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the reason he was able to get  a job with an NFL team is because he IS "special".  Are you capable of running as fast and throwing a football as well as him?  Are you capable of the physical fitness that is required to do his job?
> 
> If you were, you would be in the NFL.  Many people want to play for a professional football team, but the problem is, not many are capable of the physical fitness requirements.
> 
> Kaepernick earned his place in the NFL.  Too bad that some of you idiots are incapable of seeing that, as well as too  bad that you don't understand what the First Amendment stands for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's his own biggest problem. He's immature and unprofessional. It's why he could never advance his game to the next level. And no, just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, doesn't mean he's better than you and me.
> 
> At best, the kid is now a bench warmer. But i can understand why teams don't wanna bring him in. Why bring a whiny Snowflake in as a backup QB? They can find numerous QB's to fill that position. Football is a business. They don't want immature unprofessional folks. Why pay someone to be a problem? I'm fine with protesting, just do it on your own personal time. When you're at work, just do your job. Period, end of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you're (deliberately) misstating is that he's not "doing" a damn thing.  He's *refusing to* do something.  Something expected by coercion, for no good reason, that has ZERO to do with what he's actually there to do.
> 
> You're whining because here's  guy who refuses to be a sheep, something for which you don't have the stones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Immature and unprofessional. That sums him up. At best, he can only be a bench warmer now. He perfectly epitomizes the entitled Democrat Snowflake mentality. Businesses don't want them.
Click to expand...


Whatever.  I know absolutely zero about Colin Kaepernick's skills, never seen him play and would not have ever heard of him if some hack reporter hadn't contrived this whole fake story about him.  Nor do I have any idea, or interest, what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one.  I could literally not care less.   The point is about mob coercion, and the dangers therein.  In effect, not so much about him, far more about *you*.

And by way of comparison, as noted I've been to many a baseball game and never once stood for the national anthem.  I'm not sitting it out because I have a reason to not-stand; I'm sitting it out because nobody has ever given me a reason TO stand. 

That too can be read as an act of protest, since I'm aware that most people are standing and I consciously decline to go along.  When I do it it's not any comment on "America" or on "police" or anything else --- t's a protest against mob mentality.  It's a protest not against what went on in history, but against what's going on right in front of me.  In the _moment_.


----------



## Dschrute3

Pogo said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO YOUR JOB!
> 
> Live like the rest of us do. Just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, does't mean he's special. He can do his political protesting on his own personal time. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve a job in the NFL. Period, end of story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the reason he was able to get  a job with an NFL team is because he IS "special".  Are you capable of running as fast and throwing a football as well as him?  Are you capable of the physical fitness that is required to do his job?
> 
> If you were, you would be in the NFL.  Many people want to play for a professional football team, but the problem is, not many are capable of the physical fitness requirements.
> 
> Kaepernick earned his place in the NFL.  Too bad that some of you idiots are incapable of seeing that, as well as too  bad that you don't understand what the First Amendment stands for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's his own biggest problem. He's immature and unprofessional. It's why he could never advance his game to the next level. And no, just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, doesn't mean he's better than you and me.
> 
> At best, the kid is now a bench warmer. But i can understand why teams don't wanna bring him in. Why bring a whiny Snowflake in as a backup QB? They can find numerous QB's to fill that position. Football is a business. They don't want immature unprofessional folks. Why pay someone to be a problem? I'm fine with protesting, just do it on your own personal time. When you're at work, just do your job. Period, end of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you're (deliberately) misstating is that he's not "doing" a damn thing.  He's *refusing to* do something.  Something expected by coercion, for no good reason, that has ZERO to do with what he's actually there to do.
> 
> You're whining because here's  guy who refuses to be a sheep, something for which you don't have the stones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Immature and unprofessional. That sums him up. At best, he can only be a bench warmer now. He perfectly epitomizes the entitled Democrat Snowflake mentality. Businesses don't want them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever.  I know absolutely zero about Colin Kaepernick's skills, never seen him play and would not have ever heard of him if some hack reporter hadn't contrived this whole fake story about him.  Nor do I have any idea, or interest, what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one.  I could literally not care less.   The point is about mob coercion, and the dangers therein.  In effect, not so much about him, far more about *you*.
> 
> And by way of comparison, as noted I've been to many a baseball game and never once stood for the national anthem.  I'm not sitting it out because I have a reason to not-stand; I'm sitting it out because nobody has ever given me a reason TO stand.
> 
> That too can be read as an act of protest, since I'm aware that most people are standing and I consciously decline to go along.  When I do it it's not any comment on "America" or on "police" or anything else --- t's a protest against mob mentality.  It's a protest not against what went on in history, but against what's going on right in front of me.
Click to expand...


Immature and unprofessional. That sums up all Snowflakes. They don't make for valuable employees. Why hire a whiny mediocre QB that's only gonna sit on the bench? Not worth it. He's done.


----------



## Pogo

Dschrute3 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the reason he was able to get  a job with an NFL team is because he IS "special".  Are you capable of running as fast and throwing a football as well as him?  Are you capable of the physical fitness that is required to do his job?
> 
> If you were, you would be in the NFL.  Many people want to play for a professional football team, but the problem is, not many are capable of the physical fitness requirements.
> 
> Kaepernick earned his place in the NFL.  Too bad that some of you idiots are incapable of seeing that, as well as too  bad that you don't understand what the First Amendment stands for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's his own biggest problem. He's immature and unprofessional. It's why he could never advance his game to the next level. And no, just because he's a Democrat Snowflake and athlete, doesn't mean he's better than you and me.
> 
> At best, the kid is now a bench warmer. But i can understand why teams don't wanna bring him in. Why bring a whiny Snowflake in as a backup QB? They can find numerous QB's to fill that position. Football is a business. They don't want immature unprofessional folks. Why pay someone to be a problem? I'm fine with protesting, just do it on your own personal time. When you're at work, just do your job. Period, end of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you're (deliberately) misstating is that he's not "doing" a damn thing.  He's *refusing to* do something.  Something expected by coercion, for no good reason, that has ZERO to do with what he's actually there to do.
> 
> You're whining because here's  guy who refuses to be a sheep, something for which you don't have the stones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Immature and unprofessional. That sums him up. At best, he can only be a bench warmer now. He perfectly epitomizes the entitled Democrat Snowflake mentality. Businesses don't want them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever.  I know absolutely zero about Colin Kaepernick's skills, never seen him play and would not have ever heard of him if some hack reporter hadn't contrived this whole fake story about him.  Nor do I have any idea, or interest, what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one.  I could literally not care less.   The point is about mob coercion, and the dangers therein.  In effect, not so much about him, far more about *you*.
> 
> And by way of comparison, as noted I've been to many a baseball game and never once stood for the national anthem.  I'm not sitting it out because I have a reason to not-stand; I'm sitting it out because nobody has ever given me a reason TO stand.
> 
> That too can be read as an act of protest, since I'm aware that most people are standing and I consciously decline to go along.  When I do it it's not any comment on "America" or on "police" or anything else --- t's a protest against mob mentality.  It's a protest not against what went on in history, but against what's going on right in front of me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Immature and unprofessional. That sums up all Snowflakes. They don't make for valuable employees. Why hire a whiny mediocre QB that's only gonna sit on the bench? Not worth it. He's done.
Click to expand...


You completely failed to address the quoted post in any way, shape or form.  Complete whiff.


----------



## Borillar

initforme said:


> But if he was good....he would have a job.  Plain and simple.


He was good enough to get the SF 49ers to the Super Bowl a few years ago. He has enough talent and ability to play. Nobody wants all the negative media attention. Dude is PR poison.


----------



## Borillar

Dschrute3 said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my line of work we have a saying, "shut up and color". Making an ass out of yourself in front of the country, while in the process breaking down team cohesion will get you blacklisted in any line of work.
> No one likes an asshole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get to show your ass and spew your political beliefs at work. Your employer won't tolerate it. Kapernick is just a typical dumb spoiled Democrat Snowflake. He really believes he's 'special' because he plays a sport and is a Democrat. He doesn't deserve a job. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

Then why all the right wing pearl clutching when it comes to right wingers spewing political beliefs at work at getting in trouble for it? Like the clerk who wouldn't issue marriage licenses to same sex couples? Like the teacher who banned MAGA hats? Is it because the right wing only cares about freedom of speech when it is their speech?


----------



## Dschrute3

Borillar said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my line of work we have a saying, "shut up and color". Making an ass out of yourself in front of the country, while in the process breaking down team cohesion will get you blacklisted in any line of work.
> No one likes an asshole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get to show your ass and spew your political beliefs at work. Your employer won't tolerate it. Kapernick is just a typical dumb spoiled Democrat Snowflake. He really believes he's 'special' because he plays a sport and is a Democrat. He doesn't deserve a job. It is what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why all the right wing pearl clutching when it comes to right wingers spewing political beliefs at work at getting in trouble for it? Like the clerk who wouldn't issue marriage licenses to same sex couples? Like the teacher who banned MAGA hats? Is it because the right wing only cares about freedom of speech when it is their speech?
Click to expand...


Go ahead and show your Snowflake ass at work. Go ahead and make your political protests. See how much longer you have that job. Again, he isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Period, end of story.


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> What I get from this is an image of throwing up one's hands and capitulating instead of facing the issue. Banning black baseball players was "here to stay at least for the immediate future" too. So was burning witches, etc etc etc etc etc. Again that is in no way a reason for it to _continue_. You're basically falling back on the old "because we've always done it this way". And that is simply not good enough. It is in fact, not a reason at all.



Here we have a ridiculous comparison again.  Banning black players?  Burning witches?  Those are the things you compare playing the national anthem at sporting events to?

No one is banned from attending games for not standing during the anthem, are they?  Has anyone been burned for not standing during the anthem?  Are games at which the anthem is not played banned in this country?  Are stadiums that don't play the anthem before a game burned to the ground?

Who is hurt by people wanting others to stand during the playing of the anthem, if no one is forced to do so?  I've sat during the national anthem before, and done so at a sports event.  You know what happened?  Nothing.  Nothing at all.  I was not banned, I was not burned, I was not harmed in any way.

I didn't say that "because it's been done that way" is the reason the anthem is played at sporting events.  I merely pointed out that it's a cultural tradition unlikely to stop any time soon.  I also don't consider it an issue, as you do.  I think it's fairly silly, but harmless.  If someone calls for legislation to make standing during the anthem obligatory, I'll be all in opposing that.  If people start getting burned or lynched for not standing, I'll vehemently oppose that.  If Colin Kaepernick can't get a job in the NFL, in part, because he kneels during the anthem?  Again, it's a bit silly, but that's up to the NFL teams.

And you know what?  "Because we've always done it this way" actually IS a good enough reason for the anthem to be played at sports events.  That's because there doesn't have to be *any* reason, or any good reason, for that to be done.  If professional leagues, or teams, or stadiums want to play the anthem before games, they don't need a reason to do it.  There is not a law against it, nor should there be.  You or I may not see a good reason for it, but so what?  Others do see what they consider a good reason for the anthem to be played, apparently, just as people see what they consider good reasons for people to stand during the anthem.

I may not understand why the national anthem is played at sports events, but I'm not going to try linking it to lynchings or Nazis.  



Pogo said:


> Actually I already covered that, explaining above that the comparison was one of _thought processes_, not people. You've acknowledged here that I said that and then gone back and called the the same thing. Well NO they're NOT the same thing; you're ignoring the point. If they were the same thing it would not have been necessary (or possible) to delineate the distinction.
> 
> When a rhetorical comparison isn't being heard it's necessary to invoke the extreme to demonstrate that comparison, because the more extreme the example, the more obvious is the comparative point.. In our culture and time Hitler is about as extreme as there is. Yet you're still not hearing it.
> 
> The distinction is that the mentality DRIVES the people. To use my previous metaphor they're "drunk" on it. That doesn't mean the alcohol is "the same thing" as the alcohol*ic*.
> 
> Follow me?
> 
> Ever heard the expression, "love the sinner, hate the sin"?



You are arguing that when you compare an aspect of one person's personality with a similar aspect in another person's personality, you aren't comparing the people.  That is ridiculous.  Yes, you've covered that; I responded by giving my opinion that you are wrong.  When you say person X has personality trait A, and person Y has personality trait A, you are comparing those people.  When you compare the actions of a group (message board posters) with the actions of another group (those who committed lynchings), you are comparing those groups. 

I am hearing your comparison to Hitler.  Again, I'm telling you it is ridiculous hyperbole.  One might describe cheering at a sporting event as a form of mob mentality; people follow along with the wave, or group cheers, etc.  Shall I now compare that to the Holocaust?  It's the same thought process!  Should any sort of group think be compared to Hitler and the Nazis? 

Of course I've heard the expression "love the sinner, hate the sin."  I find it to often be used as an excuse, a way for people to claim they don't hate a person when they actually do; or at least to claim not to hate something about a person when they do.  In fact, I think it is often similar to the way you've compared groups of people but claimed only to be comparing their thought processes, as though those are somehow completely separate from the people involved. 

TL DR - If I tell you I tried to be a professional artist and failed at it, and you reply with, "Did you know Hitler was a failed artist?" you have compared me to him, you have not simply compared failed artistry.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I get from this is an image of throwing up one's hands and capitulating instead of facing the issue. Banning black baseball players was "here to stay at least for the immediate future" too. So was burning witches, etc etc etc etc etc. Again that is in no way a reason for it to _continue_. You're basically falling back on the old "because we've always done it this way". And that is simply not good enough. It is in fact, not a reason at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we have a ridiculous comparison again.  Banning black players?  Burning witches?  Those are the things you compare playing the national anthem at sporting events to?
Click to expand...


Here we have another example of not-listening.  Are you deliberately playing obtuse?  I've delineated the distinction here over and over, and you continue to ignore that distinction.

Why are you doing that?

I could explain it all over again but since you ignored the first two times ---- what's the point?





Montrovant said:


> No one is banned from attending games for not standing during the anthem, are they?  Has anyone been burned for not standing during the anthem?  Are games at which the anthem is not played banned in this country?  Are stadiums that don't play the anthem before a game burned to the ground?



I have no idea how many games are played without an anthem but I guarantee you they happen; I've participated in them.  Fatter o' mact I've never participated in a sporting event where the national anthem *was* played.  Nor would I expect it to happen, since that's not what I'm there for and it has no connection to the game.

I don't know of people being "banned" but I do see, all over this thread and others, those who see fit to punish -- or ban, or "fire the sumbitches", or worse, those who decline to do the dance ON THAT BASIS.  That's why I keep using the term "coercion". Please confirm that you know what _coercion _means.

*co·er·cion*
kōˈərZHən,kōˈərSHən/
_noun_
noun: *coercion*; plural noun: *coercions*
the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
"it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"
synonyms: force, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, enforcement, harassment, intimidation, threats, arm-twisting, pressure
"Johnson claims the police used coercion to extract a confession"​
Blackballing is coercion.  Demanding a citizen kiss the flag is coercion.  Sending that citizen to prison for not bending over for that mob is coercion.  The "gentleman's agreement" that kept black players out of baseball for six decades, was coercion.  "Thoughtcrime" is coercion.  Terrorism is coercion.  Distribution of Ku Klux Klan warning flyers is coercion.  "Break their windows -- break them now" is coercion when the order is followed.

There's a specific reason I've been using that term, and there it is.




Montrovant said:


> Who is hurt by people wanting others to stand during the playing of the anthem, if no one is forced to do so?  I've sat during the national anthem before, and done so at a sports event.  You know what happened?  Nothing.  Nothing at all.  I was not banned, I was not burned, I was not harmed in any way.



And I've done the same thing and experienced the same nothing.  And that's how it SHOULD work.

Now let's see if we can convey that concept to the zombified parrots squawking at football players (or anyone else) who chooses to opt out.

That's the whole bottom line --- it's _optional_, so one can _opt in_ or _opt out_.  When the zombified parrots decide that 'no you CAN'T opt out", that's when we have a problem.  And here we are, aren't we.  The question being, how come you or I can sit out the national anthem, yet Colin Kaepernick can't?

That question has no answer.  And the zombified parrots know it has no answer, which is why they keep running away from it.

As for TL/DR, I'll simply chop this post up into separate posts if it leads to finally being heard.  No you're not allowed to use eye fatigue as an excuse.

_-- continued --_​


----------



## TNHarley

ABikerSailor said:


> I served this country for over 20 years and through 4 different war zones.  I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
> 
> Supporting the Constitution means that you support the things that are written in it.
> 
> Defending the Constitution means that you understand the concepts written in it, and you will speak out whenever someone is using it wrong.
> 
> Free speech is one of those things that is contained in the Constitution.  Kaepernick was simply exercising his right to free speech by taking a knee.
> 
> The NFL, fans and people who watch are entitled to have their opinion about his actions and voice them if they feel the need.
> 
> Kaepernick has a right to do what he did.  Even if I don't agree with what he does, he still has the right to do it.


Dude, you support unconstitutional practices on here all the time. 
The 1st has nothing to do with what he does at his job. Sure, he can do it but he shouldnt whine, and others whine for him, over the consequences.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> I didn't say that "because it's been done that way" is the reason the anthem is played at sporting events.  I merely pointed out that it's a cultural tradition unlikely to stop any time soon.



Then you just DID say that.  And later in this very post, you'll proceed to re-confirm it.




Montrovant said:


> I also don't consider it an issue, as you do.  I think it's fairly silly, but harmless.  If someone calls for legislation to make standing during the anthem obligatory, I'll be all in opposing that.



It is indeed silly --- but "legislation" is hardly the only way to get something done, is it.  See the section on "coercion"  above.  Mob Mentality is a *classic* way to get something done.  It got the rabble to accept witches being burned, it sent Earnest Starr to prison and hard labor for not capitulating to a mob, it kept black ballplayers, and black people in general, "in their place"..... and it was being mined by Chief Zombified Parrot Rump with his "fire the sumbitches".  That doesn't make somebody's firing required by law; it employs the Mob to pressure for it.  Which is exactly what's going on here, and we both know I could go quote right now myriad posts saying exactly that.




Montrovant said:


> If people start getting burned or lynched for not standing, I'll vehemently oppose that.  If Colin Kaepernick can't get a job in the NFL, in part, because he kneels during the anthem?  Again, it's a bit silly, but that's up to the NFL teams.



That's not the scope here.  There's a lawsuit alleging that, and it will go wherever it goes.  My purpose here has really nothing to do with what the NFL or Colin Kaepernick does.  It's all about the coercion from the zombified parrots.





Montrovant said:


> And you know what?  "Because we've always done it this way" actually IS a good enough reason for the anthem to be played at sports events.



Et voilà --- you just confirmed "because we've always done it this way".  It would appear not only are you not reading my words, you're not even reading _your own_.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> That's because there doesn't have to be any reason, or any good reason, for that to be done.  If professional leagues, or teams, or stadiums want to play the anthem before games, they don't need a reason to do it.



Everything needs a function.  If they "don't need a reason", then the practice has no function.  If the practice has no function, then it must be *optional *at the actor's discretion.  If the act is optional at the actor's discretion, then said actor has the right to engage in it or not engage.  And that makes "fire the sumbitches" an(other) fraudulent incitement.  CLEARLY you can't 'fire' somebody for opting out of an optional act.





Montrovant said:


> There is not a law against it, nor should there be.  You or I may not see a good reason for it, but so what?  Others do see what they consider a good reason for the anthem to be played, apparently, just as people see what they consider good reasons for people to stand during the anthem.



These "others" are of course free to see whatever reason they see fit.  There's no issue there.

Where there IS an issue is when those others decide "this is how I see it and I'm going to persecute anybody who doesn't see it that way".

"There's no law against it" is a prepostorous assertion to use as a basis for mob coercion to force behavior because "there's no law against it".  Really?  The Montana mob was correct to try to force Earnest Starr to kiss a flag because "there's no law against" kissing a flag?  THAT's what you want to plant your flag on?

This reminds me of how when I first came to this site and the hot topic (then as somewhat now) was what to do about mass gun violence, I observed at the time what certain voices of the same coercion persuasion were saying about media commentators who dared question Gun Culture.

They said,
"David Gregory must be *arrested*".....
"Piers Morgan must be *deported*"......
"Bob Costas must be *fired*"......
"the White Plains Journal-News must be *shut down*" .....​See the pattern here?

Some if not all of these entities received more than a few threats.  The Journal-News had to hire an armed guard.

    >> some reporters have received notes saying they would be shot on the way to their cars; bloggers have encouraged people to steal credit card information of Journal News employees; and two packages containing white powder have been sent to the newsroom and a third to a reporter’s home. .... The reaction did not stop at the local paper: Gracia C. Martore, the chief executive of Gannett, also received threatening messages.<< --- Newspaper Targeted​

Again -----  coercion.  No "legislation" required.  Not everything that happens is a result of "legislation".

Another simple example --- I receive a note on my car windshield advising that "people around here have guns" based on what that note's writer thought about my bumper sticker.  Again --- coercion.




Montrovant said:


> I may not understand why the national anthem is played at sports events, but I'm not going to try linking it to lynchings or Nazis.



More to the point you're also not going to try understanding how that came up.  Either that or are deliberately trying to deflect it.





Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I already covered that, explaining above that the comparison was one of thought processes, not people. You've acknowledged here that I said that and then gone back and called the the same thing. Well NO they're NOT the same thing; you're ignoring the point. If they were the same thing it would not have been necessary (or possible) to delineate the distinction.
> 
> When a rhetorical comparison isn't being heard it's necessary to invoke the extreme to demonstrate that comparison, because the more extreme the example, the more obvious is the comparative point.. In our culture and time Hitler is about as extreme as there is. Yet you're still not hearing it.
> 
> The distinction is that the mentality DRIVES the people. To use my previous metaphor they're "drunk" on it. That doesn't mean the alcohol is "the same thing" as the alcoholic.
> 
> Follow me?
> 
> Ever heard the expression, "love the sinner, hate the sin"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are arguing that when you compare an aspect of one person's personality with a similar aspect in another person's personality, you aren't comparing the people.  That is ridiculous.  Yes, you've covered that; I responded by giving my opinion that you are wrong.  When you say person X has personality trait A, and person Y has personality trait A, you are comparing those people.  When you compare the actions of a group (message board posters) with the actions of another group (those who committed lynchings), you are comparing those groups.
Click to expand...


We're not talking "personality traits" here.  And we never were.  We're talking, *as I said from the beginning*, THOUGHT PROCESSES.  You're ignoring that, and changing the point to something completely different, and that just ain't honest.





Montrovant said:


> I am hearing your comparison to Hitler.  Again, I'm telling you it is ridiculous hyperbole.  One might describe cheering at a sporting event as a form of mob mentality; people follow along with the wave, or group cheers, etc.  Shall I now compare that to the Holocaust?  It's the same thought process!  Should any sort of group think be compared to Hitler and the Nazis?



SMGDH  

Once again, ignoring the words plainly on the page and plugging in one's own.  Not valid argument.





Montrovant said:


> Of course I've heard the expression "love the sinner, hate the sin."  I find it to often be used as an excuse, a way for people to claim they don't hate a person when they actually do; or at least to claim not to hate something about a person when they do.  In fact, I think it is often similar to the way you've compared groups of people but claimed only to be comparing their thought processes, as though those are somehow completely separate from the people involved.



They ARE separate.  Always have been, always will be. "Hate" isn't involved here; its presence in the maxim is metaphorical.

Have you ever met a human being who "IS" a thought process?  Are thought processes some kind of fixed entity that cannot ever adjust?  You're dabbling into the realm of the absurd here apparently for no other purpose than Contrarianism.

Here's another famous line you've probably heard that applies to all this, or rather a paraphrase thereof:

"When they came for the football players I said nothing because I was not a football player...."

Think about it.




Montrovant said:


> TL DR - If I tell you I tried to be a professional artist and failed at it, and you reply with, "Did you know Hitler was a failed artist?" you have compared me to him, you have not simply compared failed artistry.




It would be irrelevant too.  If the implicit suggestion is that "those who attempt artistry are mass genocidists", that would be a classic and blatant Association Fallacy,   Completely irrelevant here.  And a further attempt to deflect the point about thought process --- which on no planet is pronounced "personality trait".


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I get from this is an image of throwing up one's hands and capitulating instead of facing the issue. Banning black baseball players was "here to stay at least for the immediate future" too. So was burning witches, etc etc etc etc etc. Again that is in no way a reason for it to _continue_. You're basically falling back on the old "because we've always done it this way". And that is simply not good enough. It is in fact, not a reason at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we have a ridiculous comparison again.  Banning black players?  Burning witches?  Those are the things you compare playing the national anthem at sporting events to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we have another example of not-listening.  Are you deliberately playing obtuse?  I've delineated the distinction here over and over, and you continue to ignore that distinction.
> 
> Why are you doing that?
> 
> I could explain it all over again but since you ignored the first two times ---- what's the point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is banned from attending games for not standing during the anthem, are they?  Has anyone been burned for not standing during the anthem?  Are games at which the anthem is not played banned in this country?  Are stadiums that don't play the anthem before a game burned to the ground?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no idea how many games are played without an anthem but I guarantee you they happen; I've participated in them.  Fatter o' mact I've never participated in a sporting event where the national anthem *was* played.  Nor would I expect it to happen, since that's not what I'm there for and it has no connection to the game.
> 
> I don't know of people being "banned" but I do see, all over this thread and others, those who see fit to punish -- or ban, or "fire the sumbitches", or worse, those who decline to do the dance ON THAT BASIS.  That's why I keep using the term "coercion". Please confirm that you know what _coercion _means.
> 
> *co·er·cion*
> kōˈərZHən,kōˈərSHən/
> _noun_
> noun: *coercion*; plural noun: *coercions*
> the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
> "it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"
> synonyms: force, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, enforcement, harassment, intimidation, threats, arm-twisting, pressure
> "Johnson claims the police used coercion to extract a confession"​
> Blackballing is coercion.  Demanding a citizen kiss the flag is coercion.  Sending that citizen to prison for not bending over for that mob is coercion.  The "gentleman's agreement" that kept black players out of baseball for six decades, was coercion.  "Thoughtcrime" is coercion.  Terrorism is coercion.  Distribution of Ku Klux Klan warning flyers is coercion.  "Break their windows -- break them now" is coercion when the order is followed.
> 
> There's a specific reason I've been using that term, and there it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is hurt by people wanting others to stand during the playing of the anthem, if no one is forced to do so?  I've sat during the national anthem before, and done so at a sports event.  You know what happened?  Nothing.  Nothing at all.  I was not banned, I was not burned, I was not harmed in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I've done the same thing and experienced the same nothing.  And that's how it SHOULD work.
> 
> Now let's see if we can convey that concept to the zombified parrots squawking at football players (or anyone else) who chooses to opt out.
> 
> That's the whole bottom line --- it's _optional_, so one can _opt in_ or _opt out_.  When the zombified parrots decide that 'no you CAN'T opt out", that's when we have a problem.  And here we are, aren't we.  The question being, how come you or I can sit out the national anthem, yet Colin Kaepernick can't?
> 
> That question has no answer.  And the zombified parrots know it has no answer, which is why they keep running away from it.
> 
> As for TL/DR, I'll simply chop this post up into separate posts if it leads to finally being heard.  No you're not allowed to use eye fatigue as an excuse.
> 
> _-- continued --_​
Click to expand...


You seem to be assuming that "because it has been done that way" is the only reason any of the examples in this post ever happened, as though there was no underlying reason those things became commonplace in the first place.  You are also, again, using ridiculous hyperbole whether you have "delineated the distinction" or not.  I understand that you are trying to use extreme examples to make your point.  I am trying to tell you that rather than making your point, you are detracting from it: you portray yourself as having an unrealistic view of the national anthem at sports events.

If you want to describe people saying that players should be cut if they kneel during the anthem as coercion, I can buy that.  On the other hand, the same could be said of people saying the NFL should not do anything to players who kneel during the anthem.  The same could be said of just about any opinion a person expresses.

Now you are comparing people giving their opinion that players who kneel should be fired to terrorism.  Again, not helping with credibility here.  Using the most extreme example seems to be your go-to tactic here.

Colin Kaepernick can sit out the anthem.  He did, multiple times.  He can continue to do so.  Where has he been prevented from doing so?

Kaepernick has not been signed by another NFL team since he opted out of his contract with the 49ers.  That doesn't mean he isn't able to sit or kneel during the anthem.  It means that the combination of controversy surrounding him, his limited ability as an NFL QB, and any other factors which may be involved (his asking salary is possible), have made him a less-than-optimal choice for teams looking for a QB.  Again, I think it's silly, but it's up to the teams to decide if they want his services.  I don't think anyone is running away from that question of why Kaepernick can't sit out the national anthem, because it is invalid.


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say that "because it's been done that way" is the reason the anthem is played at sporting events.  I merely pointed out that it's a cultural tradition unlikely to stop any time soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you just DID say that.  And later in this very post, you'll proceed to re-confirm it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also don't consider it an issue, as you do.  I think it's fairly silly, but harmless.  If someone calls for legislation to make standing during the anthem obligatory, I'll be all in opposing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is indeed silly --- but "legislation" is hardly the only way to get something done, is it.  See the section on "coercion"  above.  Mob Mentality is a *classic* way to get something done.  It got the rabble to accept witches being burned, it sent Earnest Starr to prison and hard labor for not capitulating to a mob, it kept black ballplayers, and black people in general, "in their place"..... and it was being mined by Chief Zombified Parrot Rump with his "fire the sumbitches".  That doesn't make somebody's firing required by law; it employs the Mob to pressure for it.  Which is exactly what's going on here, and we both know I could go quote right now myriad posts saying exactly that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> If people start getting burned or lynched for not standing, I'll vehemently oppose that.  If Colin Kaepernick can't get a job in the NFL, in part, because he kneels during the anthem?  Again, it's a bit silly, but that's up to the NFL teams.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not the scope here.  There's a lawsuit alleging that, and it will go wherever it goes.  My purpose here has really nothing to do with what the NFL or Colin Kaepernick does.  It's all about the coercion from the zombified parrots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you know what?  "Because we've always done it this way" actually IS a good enough reason for the anthem to be played at sports events.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Et voilà --- you just confirmed "because we've always done it this way".  It would appear not only are you not reading my words, you're not even reading _your own_.
Click to expand...


No, I did NOT say that the anthem is played at sporting events "because it's been done that way."  Again, just because it is a cultural tradition and unlikely to end soon, does not mean the reason is "because it's been done that way."  I'm sure that plays a part for at least some people, but do you honestly think that no one has a reason for wanting the national anthem played at sports events other than "because it's been done that way"?

Popular pressure is just a reality of human society.  And I'd like to point out that, despite your railing against it, the mob coercion you are so concerned about *has not prevented players from kneeling during the anthem*.  

You know what else might be considered coercive?  Comparing people (or their thought processes, if that makes you feel better) to Nazis, or lynchings, or terrorism.  You seem to be trying to coerce people into not being coercive.  

I did not confirm "because we've always done it this way" as the reason the anthem is played at sports events.  I merely put forth the opinion that that would be sufficient reason, were it the case.  I'm not sure why you decided to break that paragraph off here, when it goes on to explain my point.


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's because there doesn't have to be any reason, or any good reason, for that to be done.  If professional leagues, or teams, or stadiums want to play the anthem before games, they don't need a reason to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything needs a function.  If they "don't need a reason", then the practice has no function.  If the practice has no function, then it must be *optional *at the actor's discretion.  If the act is optional at the actor's discretion, then said actor has the right to engage in it or not engage.  And that makes "fire the sumbitches" an(other) fraudulent incitement.  CLEARLY you can't 'fire' somebody for opting out of an optional act.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is not a law against it, nor should there be.  You or I may not see a good reason for it, but so what?  Others do see what they consider a good reason for the anthem to be played, apparently, just as people see what they consider good reasons for people to stand during the anthem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These "others" are of course free to see whatever reason they see fit.  There's no issue there.
> 
> Where there IS an issue is when those others decide "this is how I see it and I'm going to persecute anybody who doesn't see it that way".
> 
> "There's no law against it" is a prepostorous assertion to use as a basis for mob coercion to force behavior because "there's no law against it".  Really?  The Montana mob was correct to try to force Earnest Starr to kiss a flag because "there's no law against" kissing a flag?  THAT's what you want to plant your flag on?
> 
> This reminds me of how when I first came to this site and the hot topic (then as somewhat now) was what to do about mass gun violence, I observed at the time what certain voices of the same coercion persuasion were saying about media commentators who dared question Gun Culture.
> 
> They said,
> "David Gregory must be *arrested*".....
> "Piers Morgan must be *deported*"......
> "Bob Costas must be *fired*"......
> "the White Plains Journal-News must be *shut down*" .....​See the pattern here?
> 
> Some if not all of these entities received more than a few threats.  The Journal-News had to hire an armed guard.
> 
> >> some reporters have received notes saying they would be shot on the way to their cars; bloggers have encouraged people to steal credit card information of Journal News employees; and two packages containing white powder have been sent to the newsroom and a third to a reporter’s home. .... The reaction did not stop at the local paper: Gracia C. Martore, the chief executive of Gannett, also received threatening messages.<< --- Newspaper Targeted​
> 
> Again -----  coercion.  No "legislation" required.  Not everything that happens is a result of "legislation".
> 
> Another simple example --- I receive a note on my car windshield advising that "people around here have guns" based on what that note's writer thought about my bumper sticker.  Again --- coercion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may not understand why the national anthem is played at sports events, but I'm not going to try linking it to lynchings or Nazis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More to the point you're also not going to try understanding how that came up.  Either that or are deliberately trying to deflect it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I already covered that, explaining above that the comparison was one of thought processes, not people. You've acknowledged here that I said that and then gone back and called the the same thing. Well NO they're NOT the same thing; you're ignoring the point. If they were the same thing it would not have been necessary (or possible) to delineate the distinction.
> 
> When a rhetorical comparison isn't being heard it's necessary to invoke the extreme to demonstrate that comparison, because the more extreme the example, the more obvious is the comparative point.. In our culture and time Hitler is about as extreme as there is. Yet you're still not hearing it.
> 
> The distinction is that the mentality DRIVES the people. To use my previous metaphor they're "drunk" on it. That doesn't mean the alcohol is "the same thing" as the alcoholic.
> 
> Follow me?
> 
> Ever heard the expression, "love the sinner, hate the sin"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are arguing that when you compare an aspect of one person's personality with a similar aspect in another person's personality, you aren't comparing the people.  That is ridiculous.  Yes, you've covered that; I responded by giving my opinion that you are wrong.  When you say person X has personality trait A, and person Y has personality trait A, you are comparing those people.  When you compare the actions of a group (message board posters) with the actions of another group (those who committed lynchings), you are comparing those groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We're not talking "personality traits" here.  And we never were.  We're talking, *as I said from the beginning*, THOUGHT PROCESSES.  You're ignoring that, and changing the point to something completely different, and that just ain't honest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am hearing your comparison to Hitler.  Again, I'm telling you it is ridiculous hyperbole.  One might describe cheering at a sporting event as a form of mob mentality; people follow along with the wave, or group cheers, etc.  Shall I now compare that to the Holocaust?  It's the same thought process!  Should any sort of group think be compared to Hitler and the Nazis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SMGDH
> 
> Once again, ignoring the words plainly on the page and plugging in one's own.  Not valid argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I've heard the expression "love the sinner, hate the sin."  I find it to often be used as an excuse, a way for people to claim they don't hate a person when they actually do; or at least to claim not to hate something about a person when they do.  In fact, I think it is often similar to the way you've compared groups of people but claimed only to be comparing their thought processes, as though those are somehow completely separate from the people involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They ARE separate.  Always have been, always will be. "Hate" isn't involved here; its presence in the maxim is metaphorical.
> 
> Have you ever met a human being who "IS" a thought process?  Are thought processes some kind of fixed entity that cannot ever adjust?  You're dabbling into the realm of the absurd here apparently for no other purpose than Contrarianism.
> 
> Here's another famous line you've probably heard that applies to all this, or rather a paraphrase thereof:
> 
> "When they came for the football players I said nothing because I was not a football player...."
> 
> Think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> TL DR - If I tell you I tried to be a professional artist and failed at it, and you reply with, "Did you know Hitler was a failed artist?" you have compared me to him, you have not simply compared failed artistry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It would be irrelevant too.  If the implicit suggestion is that "those who attempt artistry are mass genocidists", that would be a classic and blatant Association Fallacy,   Completely irrelevant here.  And a further attempt to deflect the point about thought process --- which on no planet is pronounced "personality trait".
Click to expand...


Everything needs a function?  Based on what?
Playing the national anthem at sports events IS optional.  I wasn't talking about kneeling in that paragraph, but the playing of the anthem.  That might have been clearer had you not broken up the paragraph.  

Have you ever met a person who is not made up of the functions of their mind?  Their thought processes, personality traits, quirks and beliefs?  I didn't say that a person's thought processes are the entirety of that person.  However, just because something is only an aspect does not mean it is separate.  Just because something can change doesn't mean it is not a part of a person.  Again you seem to be using an all-or-nothing thought process.  

And yes, one can have sin separate from the sinner.  My point was that the people who use that expression often seem to be trying to excuse their hate for a person or an aspect of a person by claiming it is only the sin they hate.

Is your name Godwin?  You continuously go back to the Nazis and Nazi related statements.  

If a person tends to follow the group, would you not consider that a personality trait?

What is it you are trying to get across here?  Apparently it's not that people who oppose NFL players kneeling are comparable to Nazis, despite your continued use of Nazi examples.  Are you just saying you disagree with the anthem being played at sports events?  That you disagree with people feeling any obligation to stand during the anthem?  That you disagree with people expressing their opinions that players should be fired for kneeling during the anthem?  Do you think people should not be allowed to express such an opinion?


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> If you want to describe people saying that players should be cut if they kneel during the anthem as coercion, I can buy that. On the other hand, the same could be said of people saying the NFL should not do anything to players who kneel during the anthem. The same could be said of just about any opinion a person expresses.



Ummm.... nnnno.  You can't make a case that somebody opining that "nothing should happen" is trying to control other people's behaviour.  That just will not compute.  Again, absurdity.  There's only one camp trying to control what somebody else is doing here, and that is the _active_ one.

This is so elementary as to not even need to be pointed out.  One would think.  Yet here it is.




Montrovant said:


> Now you are comparing people giving their opinion that players who kneel should be fired to terrorism. Again, not helping with credibility here. Using the most extreme example seems to be your go-to tactic here.



Made necessary  by your ignoring the point.  Clearly it's not working as you continue to ignore it.  I can only lead the horse to water; I can't control the horse denying that the water is there.

If one is making (as am I) the point that some thought process is detrimental, then one has the responsibility (as do I) to explain WHY it's detrimental.  Once I do that, "waah your brought up Hitler (terrorism, witches, baseball, whatever) is not a valid argument.




Montrovant said:


> Colin Kaepernick can sit out the anthem. He did, multiple times. He can continue to do so. Where has he been prevented from doing so?



I don't know if he has.  It's not even relevant.
Again, already mentioned this, this is the basis of a lawsuit he apparently filed.  I don't know what happened or is happening with that suit, and I'm really not concerned with it.  That's business stuff and it's not my interest.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> No, I did NOT say that the anthem is played at sporting events "because it's been done that way." Again, just because it is a cultural tradition and unlikely to end soon, does not mean the reason is "because it's been done that way." I'm sure that plays a part for at least some people, but do you honestly think that no one has a reason for wanting the national anthem played at sports events other than "because it's been done that way"?



I wouldn't know what reason "no one" has, but it's what you gave as a basis immediately after denying that's what you were doing.  And like before, you're about to do it again in the same post (below).




Montrovant said:


> Popular pressure is just a reality of human society. And I'd like to point out that, despite your railing against it, the mob coercion you are so concerned about *has not prevented players from kneeling during the anthem*.



You have no way to know that, nor do I, but to the extent it's true, that's a good thing.  Any time anyone stands up to mob coercion and says "no, I will not be coerced" --- we all win that game.

Conversely, when that coercion works and a player doesn't sit out what he would prefer to sit out, or a citizen doesn't sport a piece of clothing or a bumpersticker he/she would prefer to sport --- the mob wins. (Obviously I could say "the terrorists win" here and convey the same thing but you might get all fixated on the tree and miss the forest) 

Personally I'm against the idea of the coercion mob winning.  Maybe it's just me.

Check out the way coercion was handled in that link just above.  The response was _perfect_. 





Montrovant said:


> I did not confirm "because we've always done it this way" as the reason the anthem is played at sports events. I merely put forth the opinion that *that would be sufficient reason*, were it the case. I'm not sure why you decided to break that paragraph off here, when it goes on to explain my point.



And there it is, reconfirmed yet again.  You're saying here (again) that "because we've always done it this way" *IS* sufficient reason.  Those are _your own words_.


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Have you ever met a person who is not made up of the functions of their mind? Their thought processes, personality traits, quirks and beliefs? I didn't say that a person's thought processes are the entirety of that person. However, just because something is only an aspect does not mean it is separate. Just because something can change doesn't mean it is not a part of a person. Again you seem to be using an all-or-nothing thought process.



Umm --- I think it's the other way 'round if you can't separate "thought process" from "personality trait", doncha think?

Again, personality traits are what each of us are made of; _thought processes_ can be adopted, abandoned, modified, tweaked, improved, revised, introduced, whatever fits the occasion.  

An old saying goes, "when the known facts change, I change my mind.  What do you do, sir?"  Far as I know there is no old or new saying  that goes "when the known facts change, I change my entire personality".  We live, we learn, we adapt as necessary.  When we found out that smoking brings cancer --- we stopped.  No personality change needed.  One believes X, one finds out X is not valid, one abandons X  Natural progression.





Montrovant said:


> And yes, one can have sin separate from the sinner. My point was that the people who use that expression often seem to be trying to excuse their hate for
> a person or an aspect of a person by claiming it is only the sin they hate.



Regardless what might "seem", it's got nothing to do with anything I expressed, does it.




Montrovant said:


> If a person tends to follow the group, would you not consider that a personality trait?



Of course not.  How would it be?

Some of us are more gullible, others more cynical.  Those would be personality traits.  But neither one is incapable of adapting their thought process as needed.  

Matter of fact the former, the gullible may be more susceptible to adopting some bogus belief but by the same token they're also more open to tweaking it as necessary.




Montrovant said:


> What is it you are trying to get across here? Apparently it's not that people who oppose NFL players kneeling are comparable to Nazis, despite your continued use of Nazi examples. Are you just saying you disagree with the anthem being played at sports events? That you disagree with people feeling any obligation to stand during the anthem? That you disagree with people expressing their opinions that players should be fired for kneeling during the anthem? Do you think people should not be allowed to express such an opinion?



Sigh...............................................................................


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Ummm.... nnnno. You can't make a case that somebody opining that "nothing should happen" is trying to control other people's behaviour. That just will not compute. Again, absurdity. There's only one camp trying to control what somebody else is doing here, and that is the _active_ one.
> 
> This is so elementary as to not even need to be pointed out. One would think. Yet here it is.



I see.  So you cannot compel someone to not do something?  If a child is looking as if they are ready to grab a cookie from the kitchen counter, let's say, and I say "Don't!" I'm not compelling them to not act?

If the NFL is considering making a rule that players must stand during the playing of the national anthem, you don't think that anyone could compel them not to implement such a rule?



Pogo said:


> Made necessary by your ignoring the point. Clearly it's not working as you continue to ignore it. I can only lead the horse to water; I can't control the horse denying that the water is there.
> 
> If one is making (as am I) the point that some thought process is detrimental, then one has the responsibility (as do I) to explain WHY it's detrimental. Once I do that, "waah your brought up Hitler (terrorism, witches, baseball, whatever) is not a valid argument.



That would be important.....if I were arguing that your point is entirely invalid because you keep using Nazi comparisons.  I have not done that.  I said that using those comparisons is ridiculous, and it is.  I've said that using those comparisons hurts your point, and it does, because it makes you seem less credible.  It doesn't mean you are completely wrong, it means you are *making a bad argument*.



Pogo said:


> I don't know if he has. It's not even relevant.
> Again, already mentioned this, this is the basis of a lawsuit he apparently filed. I don't know what happened or is happening with that suit, and I'm really not concerned with it. That's business stuff and it's not my interest.



It isn't relevant?  You said this: 


Pogo said:


> That's the whole bottom line --- it's _optional_, so one can _opt in_ or _opt out_. When the zombified parrots decide that 'no you CAN'T opt out", that's when we have a problem. And here we are, aren't we. *The question being, how come you or I can sit out the national anthem, yet Colin Kaepernick can't?*



You are the one who brought it up.  Maybe you shouldn't bring up irrelevant points.


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I did NOT say that the anthem is played at sporting events "because it's been done that way." Again, just because it is a cultural tradition and unlikely to end soon, does not mean the reason is "because it's been done that way." I'm sure that plays a part for at least some people, but do you honestly think that no one has a reason for wanting the national anthem played at sports events other than "because it's been done that way"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't know what reason "no one" has, but it's what you gave as a basis immediately after denying that's what you were doing.  And like before, you're about to do it again in the same post (below).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Popular pressure is just a reality of human society. And I'd like to point out that, despite your railing against it, the mob coercion you are so concerned about *has not prevented players from kneeling during the anthem*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have no way to know that, nor do I, but to the extent it's true, that's a good thing.  Any time anyone stands up to mob coercion and says "no, I will not be coerced" --- we all win that game.
> 
> Conversely, when that coercion works and a player doesn't sit out what he would prefer to sit out, or a citizen doesn't sport a piece of clothing or a bumpersticker he/she would prefer to sport --- the mob wins. (Obviously I could say "the terrorists win" here and convey the same thing but you might get all fixated on the tree and miss the forest)
> 
> Personally I'm against the idea of the coercion mob winning.  Maybe it's just me.
> 
> Check out the way coercion was handled in that link just above.  The response was _perfect_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not confirm "because we've always done it this way" as the reason the anthem is played at sports events. I merely put forth the opinion that *that would be sufficient reason*, were it the case. I'm not sure why you decided to break that paragraph off here, when it goes on to explain my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there it is, reconfirmed yet again.  You're saying here (again) that "because we've always done it this way" *IS* sufficient reason.  Those are _your own words_.
Click to expand...


OMG.

"Because we've always done it this way" is *sufficient reason*.  I find it hard to believe that someone who so often fixates on language would not see the difference between saying that "because we've always done it this way" is the reason, and saying "because we've always done it this way" is sufficient reason, particularly when I also qualified with "were it the case."  So, again, I did NOT say that the reason the anthem is played is merely "because we've always done it this way."  I said that that reason would be good enough, because pretty much *any* reason would be good enough, because the NFL can do what it wants in regards to playing the anthem or not.  Sheesh.

As to the mob coercion: Do you think that, if the NFL were to consider whether or not to make standing during the anthem mandatory for players, and the NFL decided not to based on the opinions of a large percentage of the fans, that would constitute coercion?


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Umm --- I think it's the other way 'round if you can't separate "thought process" from "personality trait", doncha think?
> 
> Again, personality traits are what each of us are made of; _thought processes_ can be adopted, abandoned, modified, tweaked, improved, revised, introduced, whatever fits the occasion.
> 
> An old saying goes, "when the known facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" Far as I know there is no old or new saying that goes "when the known facts change, I change my entire personality". We live, we learn, we adapt as necessary. When we found out that smoking brings cancer --- we stopped. No personality change needed. One believes X, one finds out X is not valid, one abandons X Natural progression.



Now personality traits cannot be adopted, abandoned, modified, tweaked, improved, revised, introduced, etc.?  Trait theory may consider them to be mostly stable, but even there I don't think they are considered completely unchanging.

But you know what?  Who cares.  Ignore the term personality traits.  Doesn't matter.



Pogo said:


> Regardless what might "seem", it's got nothing to do with anything I expressed, does it.



Since you are the one that brought up the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin," yeah, it has to do with that.    You keep saying things, then wondering why I comment about them.



Pogo said:


> Of course not. How would it be?
> 
> Some of us are more gullible, others more cynical. Those would be personality traits. But neither one is incapable of adapting their thought process as needed.
> 
> Matter of fact the former, the gullible may be more susceptible to adopting some bogus belief but by the same token they're also more open to tweaking it as necessary.



Again, doesn't matter.  Thought processes, not personality traits, fine.



Pogo said:


> Sigh...............................................................................



You've clearly gone beyond simply saying you don't like mob mentality, so I'm trying to narrow things down a bit.  Even with that, are you proposing a way to prevent the sort of mob mentality you don't like, or just saying "it's bad" in an extremely long-winded fashion?


----------



## Montrovant

It turns out that Eric Reid, former 49ers safety, is filing his own collusion suit against the NFL with the same lawyer as Kaepernick.  Reid also regularly knelt during the anthem, although apparently he's said he won't be doing so anymore.

I'm very curious what evidence they may have.

Free-agent safety Eric Reid files grievance under CBA


----------



## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm.... nnnno. You can't make a case that somebody opining that "nothing should happen" is trying to control other people's behaviour. That just will not compute. Again, absurdity. There's only one camp trying to control what somebody else is doing here, and that is the _active_ one.
> 
> This is so elementary as to not even need to be pointed out. One would think. Yet here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see.  So you cannot compel someone to not do something?  If a child is looking as if they are ready to grab a cookie from the kitchen counter, let's say, and I say "Don't!" I'm not compelling them to not act?
Click to expand...


Are you being deliberately obtuse?  That's not in ANY way the same thing.

If your example's parent issues that no-cookie edict, then that parent is _actively doing something_ to control them.  If that parent simply ignores it and leaves it up to the child, THAT is opining "nothing should happen" and doing nothing. 




Montrovant said:


> If the NFL is considering making a rule that players must stand during the playing of the national anthem, you don't think that anyone could compel them not to implement such a rule?



Same mischaracterization of what I posted.  You seem to be doing this a lot.




Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Made necessary by your ignoring the point. Clearly it's not working as you continue to ignore it. I can only lead the horse to water; I can't control the horse denying that the water is there.
> 
> If one is making (as am I) the point that some thought process is detrimental, then one has the responsibility (as do I) to explain WHY it's detrimental. Once I do that, "waah your brought up Hitler (terrorism, witches, baseball, whatever) is not a valid argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be important.....if I were arguing that your point is entirely invalid because you keep using Nazi comparisons.  I have not done that.  I said that using those comparisons is ridiculous, and it is.  I've said that using those comparisons hurts your point, and it does, because it makes you seem less credible.  It doesn't mean you are completely wrong, it means you are *making a bad argument*.
Click to expand...



"Bad" in the sense that you cannot --- dare I say will not --- listen to it, preferring to veer off into "Look!  Nazis!".  Which is a deflection.




Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if he has. It's not even relevant.
> Again, already mentioned this, this is the basis of a lawsuit he apparently filed. I don't know what happened or is happening with that suit, and I'm really not concerned with it. That's business stuff and it's not my interest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't relevant?  You said this:
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the whole bottom line --- it's _optional_, so one can _opt in_ or _opt out_. When the zombified parrots decide that 'no you CAN'T opt out", that's when we have a problem. And here we are, aren't we. *The question being, how come you or I can sit out the national anthem, yet Colin Kaepernick can't?*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Once AGAIN unrelated to the quote cited.  You're asking about whether teams as a collective won't hire the guy on this basis.  Again, I don't know and I don't care.  It's not related to my bolded quote above at all.  A second fatally flawed comparison.  So no, of course it's not relevant.


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Once AGAIN unrelated to the quote cited. You're asking about whether teams as a collective won't hire the guy on this basis. Again, I don't know and I don't care. It's not related to my bolded quote above at all. A second fatally flawed comparison. So no, of course it's not relevant.



Unrelated?!  You claim that Kaepernick has been prevented from kneeling during the anthem.  I respond that he can kneel during the anthem if he wants to, and continued doing so while he was still employed in the NFL.  How can my responding directly to something you stated be unrelated?

You made a claim, I pointed out it is incorrect.  What other relationship is required?    Why not just say something like: "I was mistaken that Kaepernick can't sit out the anthem, oops.  It isn't my point."  I don't see how pointing out that Kaepernick isn't prevented from sitting out the anthem is unrelated to a quote claiming Kaepernick can't sit out the anthem.


----------



## Slimdugger99

Penelope said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
Click to expand...


His protest had nothing to do with the anthem until Trump saw political advantage in claiming that it did.  Every white entity in the country jumped on that big fat lie with both feet because they sure weren’t prepared to address the immense race problems Kaepernick was referencing.  That fact has been pointed out from the beginning but all the talking heads want to discuss is Trumps big fat lie.   Give me a break.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Penelope

jknowgood said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you do.View attachment 190163
> Totally disrespectful.
Click to expand...


Who are in those graves, dead from Vietnam, Iraq, WWII or WWI. Now that I think about it we really had no reason to fight any of those wars.


----------



## Penelope

Bush92 said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck does football have to do with "our nation"?
> 
> Hm?
> 
> I know, I know --- you can't answer that.  No shit.
> 
> 
> /thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing because NFL has been rejected by the American people.
Click to expand...


You do like Trump does, speak for all americans, I'm an American and I watch the NFL.


----------



## Penelope

Everyone here that is against the kneelers, I wonder if  at home you stand to attention and put their hand over their heart when the SSB is played on TV.  I bet you do not do that. Case closed.


----------



## Montrovant

Penelope said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
Click to expand...


NFL players don't have to stand every time they go to work.  They work far more than just game days, so even if they had to stand as part of those 16 games per year, it would be a small percentage of their working days.


----------



## Montrovant

Slimdugger99 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His protest had nothing to do with the anthem until Trump saw political advantage in claiming that it did.  Every white entity in the country jumped on that big fat lie with both feet because they sure weren’t prepared to address the immense race problems Kaepernick was referencing.  That fact has been pointed out from the beginning but all the talking heads want to discuss is Trumps big fat lie.   Give me a break.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Kaepernick's protest may not have been about the national anthem, but he did choose to use the anthem for his protest.


----------



## Penelope

Montrovant said:


> Slimdugger99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His protest had nothing to do with the anthem until Trump saw political advantage in claiming that it did.  Every white entity in the country jumped on that big fat lie with both feet because they sure weren’t prepared to address the immense race problems Kaepernick was referencing.  That fact has been pointed out from the beginning but all the talking heads want to discuss is Trumps big fat lie.   Give me a break.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kaepernick's protest may not have been about the national anthem, but he did choose to use the anthem for his protest.
Click to expand...


Well he was forced into the platform by the NG and Army , they are looking for recruits, I read they have lowered their standards.


----------



## Penelope

Montrovant said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NFL players don't have to stand every time they go to work.  They work far more than just game days, so even if they had to stand as part of those 16 games per year, it would be a small percentage of their working days.
Click to expand...


Only when on display, take politics out of football and all sports.  Do you stand for the SSB at home?


----------



## Montrovant

Penelope said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NFL players don't have to stand every time they go to work.  They work far more than just game days, so even if they had to stand as part of those 16 games per year, it would be a small percentage of their working days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only when on display, take politics out of football and all sports.  Do you stand for the SSB at home?
Click to expand...


I don't necessarily stand at an event, let alone at home.  That doesn't change the fact that even if players were forced to stand for the national anthem at every game (which they are not), they would not "have to stand for the NA every time [they] go to work," as you said in the post I quoted.


----------



## Montrovant

Penelope said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slimdugger99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His protest had nothing to do with the anthem until Trump saw political advantage in claiming that it did.  Every white entity in the country jumped on that big fat lie with both feet because they sure weren’t prepared to address the immense race problems Kaepernick was referencing.  That fact has been pointed out from the beginning but all the talking heads want to discuss is Trumps big fat lie.   Give me a break.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kaepernick's protest may not have been about the national anthem, but he did choose to use the anthem for his protest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well he was forced into the platform by the NG and Army , they are looking for recruits, I read they have lowered their standards.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I understand this post.  How was Kaepernick forced to use the national anthem as a platform for his protest?


----------



## Penelope

Montrovant said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NFL players don't have to stand every time they go to work.  They work far more than just game days, so even if they had to stand as part of those 16 games per year, it would be a small percentage of their working days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only when on display, take politics out of football and all sports.  Do you stand for the SSB at home?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't necessarily stand at an event, let alone at home.  That doesn't change the fact that even if players were forced to stand for the national anthem at every game (which they are not), they would not "have to stand for the NA every time [they] go to work," as you said in the post I quoted.
Click to expand...


They are forced to stand at every game, they never use to even come out of the dugout for the SSB.  You are right, only at games when they are on display, showing their loyalty to a song about when they (the blacks) were still slaves.


----------



## Montrovant

Penelope said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meh...screw off at work...get canned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know of any job where you have to stand for the NA every time you go to work.  Do you stand and put your hand on your heart every game at home, yet someone may go to a few games a season, but they are working and have to do it every game. Really?
> 
> We quit the Pledge of Allegiance in schools a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NFL players don't have to stand every time they go to work.  They work far more than just game days, so even if they had to stand as part of those 16 games per year, it would be a small percentage of their working days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only when on display, take politics out of football and all sports.  Do you stand for the SSB at home?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't necessarily stand at an event, let alone at home.  That doesn't change the fact that even if players were forced to stand for the national anthem at every game (which they are not), they would not "have to stand for the NA every time [they] go to work," as you said in the post I quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are forced to stand at every game, they never use to even come out of the dugout for the SSB.  You are right, only at games when they are on display, showing their loyalty to a song about when they (the blacks) were still slaves.
Click to expand...


They are not forced to stand.  If they were, how could there have been such controversy from players not standing during the playing of the anthem?


----------



## jknowgood

Penelope said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you do.View attachment 190163
> Totally disrespectful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are in those graves, dead from Vietnam, Iraq, WWII or WWI. Now that I think about it we really had no reason to fight any of those wars.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.


----------



## Pogo

jknowgood said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you do.View attachment 190163
> Totally disrespectful.
Click to expand...


Ummmmm  yeah.  Unfortunately pimping the national anthem at sporting events has nothing to do with cemeteries and everything to do with selling obedience, which is no doubt the hook that grabs y'all authoritarian-passives whose mission in life is to take orders without a second thought.  

Once again you've demonstrated how your entire argument is an attempted Appeal to Emotion shaming with no rational basis to justify it.


----------



## Pogo

jknowgood said:


> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.



I understand he had some "very fine people".


----------



## jknowgood

Pogo said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you do.View attachment 190163
> Totally disrespectful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummmmm  yeah.  Unfortunately pimping the national anthem at sporting events has nothing to do with cemeteries and everything to do with selling obedience, which is no doubt the hook that grabs y'all authoritarian-passives whose mission in life is to take orders without a second thought.
> 
> Once again you've demonstrated how your entire argument is an attempted Appeal to Emotion shaming with no rational basis to justify it.
Click to expand...

No, showing your respect for your country, should be something you want to do. Now following orders without a second thought is what Kanye did till last week. Now look at what you liberals are doing to him. Liberalism is a mental disorder.


----------



## jknowgood

Pogo said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
Click to expand...

Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.


----------



## Pogo

Dschrute3 said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
Click to expand...


Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.

See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.


----------



## Pogo

jknowgood said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand with the kneelers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet you do.View attachment 190163
> Totally disrespectful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ummmmm  yeah.  Unfortunately pimping the national anthem at sporting events has nothing to do with cemeteries and everything to do with selling obedience, which is no doubt the hook that grabs y'all authoritarian-passives whose mission in life is to take orders without a second thought.
> 
> Once again you've demonstrated how your entire argument is an attempted Appeal to Emotion shaming with no rational basis to justify it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, showing your respect for your country, should be something you want to do.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY.  You just hit the nail squarely on the head and in the process destroyed your own position.

Exactly right, a patriotism display has to be voluntary and not a robotic prescribed exercise under penalty of public shaming or, as in the last post, "JAIL" because that's fucking fascism.  That's why foisting it on a captive audience who only came out to enjoy a sporting event is fucking BULLSHIT.

Thank you for letting that sink in.  Finally.

Indeed, this is the whole point here --- standing up to salute something because you genuinely FEEL it is a whole different ball game, pun intended, from standing up because you're _*following orders*_ to do so.  The latter cheapens and delegitimizes the entire process.  THERE is where the disrespect is.  Yet I don't see you hammering the Pentagon for spending taxpayer money to pimp this kind of shit, and I don't see you calling out fascists like Donald Rump for rousing other fascists with "fire the sumbitches".  Can you link me to those posts?





jknowgood said:


> Now following orders without a second thought is what Kanye did till last week.



I have no idea what that means or "what Kanye did last week", whoever that is.




jknowgood said:


> Now look at what you liberals are doing to him. Liberalism is a mental disorder.



Liberalism founded this country, wrote its Constitution, guarantees freedom of expression and OPPOSES fascism whenever it rears its head.  THAT is where your "respect" belongs, not in some demagoguery about pimed fake-patriotism charades.  If that's what gets you wet, go live in North Fucking Korea.


----------



## harmonica

Pogo said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.
> 
> See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.
Click to expand...

he is an emplyee
em·ploy·ee
emˈploiē,emˌploiˈē/
_noun_

a person employed for wages or salary, especially at nonexecutive level.
..employees get fired a lot for actions/words/etc on and off the job---the NFL players are no different....


----------



## Pogo

harmonica said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.
> 
> See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he is an emplyee
> em·ploy·ee
> emˈploiē,emˌploiˈē/
> _noun_
> 
> a person employed for wages or salary, especially at nonexecutive level.
> ..employees get fired a lot for actions/words/etc on and off the job---the NFL players are no different....
Click to expand...


Pro athletes are not "employees".  They work on contracts.  The lady who takes your ticket at the stadium gate is an "employee".


----------



## Pogo

jknowgood said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
Click to expand...


Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.


----------



## harmonica

Pogo said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.
> 
> See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he is an emplyee
> em·ploy·ee
> emˈploiē,emˌploiˈē/
> _noun_
> 
> a person employed for wages or salary, especially at nonexecutive level.
> ..employees get fired a lot for actions/words/etc on and off the job---the NFL players are no different....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pro athletes are not "employees".  They work on contracts.  The lady who takes your ticket at the stadium gate is an "employee".
Click to expand...

they don't get wages or salaries?


----------



## Pogo

harmonica said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.
> 
> See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he is an emplyee
> em·ploy·ee
> emˈploiē,emˌploiˈē/
> _noun_
> 
> a person employed for wages or salary, especially at nonexecutive level.
> ..employees get fired a lot for actions/words/etc on and off the job---the NFL players are no different....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pro athletes are not "employees".  They work on contracts.  The lady who takes your ticket at the stadium gate is an "employee".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they don't get wages or salaries?
Click to expand...


Correct.

Someday when you're old enough to fill out a 1040 this will all become clear.  Maybe.  Meanwhile you may want to look up "contract" to see how they work.  For example if you hire an athlete on a contract, you can break that contract, but you still have to pay him.  If you did so on as silly a basis as this malarkey, you'd only be shooting yourself in the foot.


----------



## harmonica

Pogo said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.
> 
> See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he is an emplyee
> em·ploy·ee
> emˈploiē,emˌploiˈē/
> _noun_
> 
> a person employed for wages or salary, especially at nonexecutive level.
> ..employees get fired a lot for actions/words/etc on and off the job---the NFL players are no different....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pro athletes are not "employees".  They work on contracts.  The lady who takes your ticket at the stadium gate is an "employee".
Click to expand...

Top Ford executive fired after misconduct allegations
Zoeller said the words ''fried chicken'' and his *contracts *were nullified --for free speech!!! 
Zoeller Learns Race Remarks Carry a Price
Fall from grace: When bad behavior costs celebrities their endorsements
etc etc


----------



## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.
> 
> See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.
Click to expand...


To begin with, you're quoting two different posters there, but doing it as if it is only one person talking.

Anyway, to start at the end, the poster is comparing Kaepernick to a reporter jailed for contempt.  He did not explicitly call for protesters to be jailed.  If that was his intent, then sure, I see the Nazi comparison.  Of course, you made those comparisons in regards to the entire group of people who oppose sitting/kneeling during the anthem, but if you want to ignore that, go ahead.  

It is not "personal time" when the national anthem is being played; NFL players are working at that point.  That is clearly the context here: whether a person is working or not.  When NFL players are wearing their uniforms at a stadium prior to the start of a game, they are "at work."  

I don't know if Kaepernick has ever claimed a particular political affiliation, you're right with that.  

Players are not required to stand during the anthem; or at least they are not required to do so by the league.  Again, you're right there.

If your point was that some people think standing for the anthem should be legally mandatory, or that failure to stand should result in physical punishments/assault, or similar sentiments, I've never even attempted to deny that such people are out there.  I have said, and continue to say, that trying to compare everyone who thinks people should stand during the playing of the national anthem to Nazis, or lynchings, etc. is a poor tactic which hurts your argument.


----------



## jknowgood

Pogo said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
Click to expand...

He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.


----------



## Montrovant

jknowgood said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
Click to expand...


He's getting threatened by someone who has no idea what you are talking about when you bring him up?


----------



## jknowgood

Montrovant said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's getting threatened by someone who has no idea what you are talking about when you bring him up?
Click to expand...

Lol, y'all just can't fathom a black man thinking for himself. Keep it up though, blacks support for Trump has doubled since this happened.


----------



## toobfreak

Bush92 said:


> Dirt bag is rejected by fans and the NFL owners. Hey asshole...should have stood up for our nation which offers the most opportunities and freedoms on earth.
> NFL players slam owners in heated meeting for leaving Colin Kaepernick ‘hung out to dry,' report says



Kaepernick is so triggered, I'd like to spark a BIC lighter next to the edge of his Afro----  I bet it would go off like those old WWII camera flash bulbs!  Poof!


----------



## Montrovant

jknowgood said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's getting threatened by someone who has no idea what you are talking about when you bring him up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, y'all just can't fathom a black man thinking for himself. Keep it up though, blacks support for Trump has doubled since this happened.
Click to expand...


Wonderful way to not respond to what was said.


----------



## Pogo

jknowgood said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
Click to expand...


*WHO*?  Wtf are you yammering about?  
Quote me somewhere, I have no idea where you're going with this shit.


----------



## jknowgood

Pogo said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, we should've let Hitler just continue on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *WHO*?  Wtf are you yammering about?
> Quote me somewhere, I have no idea where you're going with this shit.
Click to expand...

If a brother steps off the plantation he will ruined. The bounce 105.1 in Detroit quit playing his music. How dare a negro thinks for himself. Please keep up this hate. The midterms are just around the corner!


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## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Dschrute3 said:
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> 
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> 
> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standing "at attention" is a customary practice that is intended to indicate the players' love of country, patriotism, respect for the country's institutions (national anthem and flag).
> 
> CK chose to conspicuously decline to stand "at attention" during the playing of the Anthem because he felt he could not display "love" of country "as long as" Blacks - especially young Black men - remain the targets of a homicidal campaign by the national constabulary.
> 
> (a). He is entitled to his opinion, and if the First Amendment means anything,  it means you can criticize the government without being criminally prosecuted for it.  So no government instrumentality, acting in its official capacity, may prosecute CK for his opinion or the expression thereof, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> 
> (b). His employer is a private business.  His employer may take action against him if his public conduct is offensive to the customer base, unless such action is prohibited by his contract.  But in this case, his employer TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST HIM.  HE CHOSE to opt out of the remain years of his contract.
> 
> (c). Prospective employers may not discriminate against him for his membership in legally protected classes, to wit, race, gender, ethnicity, religion, and so on.  The protected classes are determined by local law. But nobody is discriminating against him because of his race, whatever that may be.  They are discriminating against him because to hire him would be to invite the ire of a large percentage of the customer base.
> 
> (d). Clearly, he is the victim of discrimination.  He is a more talented, and more accomplished football player than many others who have found jobs in the league.  But not all discrimination is illegal or inappropriate.  An NFL team could, for example discriminate against a quarterback if they conclude that he is not intelligent enough to do the job.  No problem.
> 
> CK COULD, if he chose to, make a public statement that he will no longer express his political or quasi-political views in the context of his employment (when playing for or representing the team).  HE COULD make a public statement that he has analyzed the relevant data and concluded that there is no statistical evidence to indicate that America's constabulary is killing Black people is disproportionate numbers, hence his protests will not be repeated.
> 
> In short, like the reporter who is jailed for contempt because he won't reveal his Source, he holds the keys to his own jail cell.  If he won't use them, fuck him.  He deserves what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Democrat Snowflake illogic. He's an employee. He can save his political protests for his personal time. That's how the rest of us live. He isn't special just because he's an athlete and Democrat. Capisce?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once AGAIN no he's not an "employee", he's a contractor; once AGAIN standing for any national anthem is not required; once AGAIN there's no relationship in any of this to a "jail cell", once AGAIN you don't know what his political party affiliation is or if he even has one, and once AGAIN it already *IS* his personal time,the anthem being not only foisted there by fake-patriotism pimps but also not in any way part of the game he's contracted to play.
> 
> See what I mean Montrovant ?  Here's another kkklown who wants to JAIL --- literally JAIL, his own term --- a United States citizen for refusing to kiss (up to) the flag.  _*Exactly*_ the same thing that Montana mob did to Earnest Starr.  Go ahead and pretend not to understand how it's the same thing.  Bring all the Nazi deflections you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To begin with, you're quoting two different posters there, but doing it as if it is only one person talking.
> 
> Anyway, to start at the end, the poster is comparing Kaepernick to a reporter jailed for contempt.  He did not explicitly call for protesters to be jailed.  If that was his intent, then sure, I see the Nazi comparison.  Of course, you made those comparisons in regards to the entire group of people who oppose sitting/kneeling during the anthem, but if you want to ignore that, go ahead.
> 
> It is not "personal time" when the national anthem is being played; NFL players are working at that point.  That is clearly the context here: whether a person is working or not.  When NFL players are wearing their uniforms at a stadium prior to the start of a game, they are "at work."
> 
> I don't know if Kaepernick has ever claimed a particular political affiliation, you're right with that.
> 
> Players are not required to stand during the anthem; or at least they are not required to do so by the league.  Again, you're right there.
> 
> If your point was that some people think standing for the anthem should be legally mandatory, or that failure to stand should result in physical punishments/assault, or similar sentiments, I've never even attempted to deny that such people are out there.  I have said, and continue to say, that trying to compare everyone who thinks people should stand during the playing of the national anthem to Nazis, or lynchings, etc. is a poor tactic which hurts your argument.
Click to expand...


We may be getting closer here.  Yes absolutely such people are out there and they have been my very target the entire time --- it is their, here it comes again, _thought process_ that I've been criticizing.  To the extent that _thought process _approaches universality we have a social pressure exerted by mob mentality ..... which is, again, the same_ thought process_ that brings about Earnest Starr, a North Korean military parade, burning witches, or any of the other analogies I've offered, out of which you seem to want to fixate on "Nazis".

If one is making the point that a particular _thought process_ is dangerous, obviously one does not draw an analogy that sends that thought process into a bucolic meadow of unicorns and rainbows.  When I say it's dangerous, it's incumbent on me to explain WHY it's dangerous.


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## Pogo

jknowgood said:


> Pogo said:
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> jknowgood said:
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> jknowgood said:
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> Pogo said:
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> I understand he had some "very fine people".
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *WHO*?  Wtf are you yammering about?
> Quote me somewhere, I have no idea where you're going with this shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a brother steps off the plantation he will ruined. The bounce 105.1 in Detroit quit playing his music. How dare a negro thinks for himself. Please keep up this hate. The midterms are just around the corner!
Click to expand...


"His" ***WHO***?

"How dare a negro think for himself.  Please keep up this hate" indeed.  Are you schizophrenic?  Because you seem to alternate between getting and not getting my point.  "Thinking for oneself" is indeed the very nub of my gist.  I strongly STRONGLY recommend it.

Whatever the rest of this dump is about, obviously you're conversing with some voice in your head.  I don't live in Detroit, or a plantation, I don't listen to commercial radio, certainly not "the bounce 105.1" whatever the fuck that is, I've posted nothing even vaguely resembling anything even tangentially related to whatever the fuck you're droning on and on and on and on about.   Yanno it's posssible that might just be why you _can't_ quote me saying whatever it is you're pulling out of your ass.


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## jknowgood

Pogo said:


> jknowgood said:
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> jknowgood said:
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> Pogo said:
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> jknowgood said:
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> Yes, ask Kanye liberals are no different than Hitler. Stay on the plantation, or we will destroy you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *WHO*?  Wtf are you yammering about?
> Quote me somewhere, I have no idea where you're going with this shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a brother steps off the plantation he will ruined. The bounce 105.1 in Detroit quit playing his music. How dare a negro thinks for himself. Please keep up this hate. The midterms are just around the corner!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "His" ***WHO***?
> 
> "How dare a negro think for himself.  Please keep up this hate" indeed.  Are you schizophrenic?  Because you seem to alternate between getting and not getting my point.  "Thinking for oneself" is indeed the very nub of my gist.  I strongly STRONGLY recommend it.
> 
> Whatever the rest of this dump is about, obviously you're conversing with some voice in your head.  I don't live in Detroit, or a plantation, I don't listen to commercial radio, certainly not "the bounce 105.1" whatever the fuck that is, I've posted nothing even vaguely resembling anything even tangentially related to whatever the fuck you're droning on and on and on and on about.   Yanno it's posssible that might just be why you _can't_ quote me saying whatever it is you're pulling out of your ass.
Click to expand...

Like I said YOUR party needs to keep up spewing your hate. It got us Trump and it will get us the midterm. Even if you're to dumb to understand it.


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## Pogo

jknowgood said:


> Pogo said:
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> jknowgood said:
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> jknowgood said:
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> Pogo said:
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> Once again, no idea what you're yammering about here.
> 
> 
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *WHO*?  Wtf are you yammering about?
> Quote me somewhere, I have no idea where you're going with this shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a brother steps off the plantation he will ruined. The bounce 105.1 in Detroit quit playing his music. How dare a negro thinks for himself. Please keep up this hate. The midterms are just around the corner!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "His" ***WHO***?
> 
> "How dare a negro think for himself.  Please keep up this hate" indeed.  Are you schizophrenic?  Because you seem to alternate between getting and not getting my point.  "Thinking for oneself" is indeed the very nub of my gist.  I strongly STRONGLY recommend it.
> 
> Whatever the rest of this dump is about, obviously you're conversing with some voice in your head.  I don't live in Detroit, or a plantation, I don't listen to commercial radio, certainly not "the bounce 105.1" whatever the fuck that is, I've posted nothing even vaguely resembling anything even tangentially related to whatever the fuck you're droning on and on and on and on about.   Yanno it's posssible that might just be why you _can't_ quote me saying whatever it is you're pulling out of your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said YOUR party needs to keep up spewing your hate. It got us Trump and it will get us the midterm. Even if you're to dumb to understand it.
Click to expand...


Once again, I have no "party".  I don't believe in 'em.  I also have no radio capable of receiving "Bouncy bouncy 105", have posted nothing about "hate" or "midterms", and have no idea where you're trying to go with this endless march of aimless word salads.  Take your medications.


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## Montrovant

Pogo said:


> jknowgood said:
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> Pogo said:
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> jknowgood said:
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> Pogo said:
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> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> He says something nice about Trump. Now he is getting threatened by you loons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WHO*?  Wtf are you yammering about?
> Quote me somewhere, I have no idea where you're going with this shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a brother steps off the plantation he will ruined. The bounce 105.1 in Detroit quit playing his music. How dare a negro thinks for himself. Please keep up this hate. The midterms are just around the corner!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "His" ***WHO***?
> 
> "How dare a negro think for himself.  Please keep up this hate" indeed.  Are you schizophrenic?  Because you seem to alternate between getting and not getting my point.  "Thinking for oneself" is indeed the very nub of my gist.  I strongly STRONGLY recommend it.
> 
> Whatever the rest of this dump is about, obviously you're conversing with some voice in your head.  I don't live in Detroit, or a plantation, I don't listen to commercial radio, certainly not "the bounce 105.1" whatever the fuck that is, I've posted nothing even vaguely resembling anything even tangentially related to whatever the fuck you're droning on and on and on and on about.   Yanno it's posssible that might just be why you _can't_ quote me saying whatever it is you're pulling out of your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said YOUR party needs to keep up spewing your hate. It got us Trump and it will get us the midterm. Even if you're to dumb to understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, I have no "party".  I don't believe in 'em.  I also have no radio capable of receiving "Bouncy bouncy 105", have posted nothing about "hate" or "midterms", and have no idea where you're trying to go with this endless march of aimless word salads.  Take your medications.
Click to expand...


You know, this is actually a pretty good example of what I'm saying about your argument.  jknowgood is lumping you in with Democrats, or liberals, because he thinks you and that group (those groups) use the same thought process regarding blacks.  He's talking about Kanye West, a rapper/entertainer, who has recently been praising Trump and has gotten flack for it.  I believe jknowgood is saying that liberals tend to think of blacks as all being basically the same; all following liberal/Democrat philosophy.  

That you don't even know who Kanye West is doesn't matter, because he's pegged you as having the same thought processes as the people who are acting toward Kanye West the way he believes they are acting.

Of course this isn't an exact analogy, but I would guess that the majority of people who oppose sitting during the anthem are not also wanting that to be enshrined in law or forced upon others.  However, you seem to be lumping all people together who want Americans to stand during the anthem, because somehow the thought process involved in wanting people to stand is the same.  When you then make your extreme comparisons, you are comparing both the person who wants kneelers to be shot and the person who would prefer people to stand but would never think of forcing someone to do so.

If, instead, you are only discussing those who would see standing for the anthem forced upon others, then you have not been clear in making that distinction, and that's where the problem has arisen.  Your posts have seemed to include everyone who is opposed to kneeling during the anthem, whatever form that opposition takes.


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## Pogo

Montrovant said:


> Pogo said:
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> 
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> jknowgood said:
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> 
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> Pogo said:
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> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *WHO*?  Wtf are you yammering about?
> Quote me somewhere, I have no idea where you're going with this shit.
> 
> 
> 
> If a brother steps off the plantation he will ruined. The bounce 105.1 in Detroit quit playing his music. How dare a negro thinks for himself. Please keep up this hate. The midterms are just around the corner!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "His" ***WHO***?
> 
> "How dare a negro think for himself.  Please keep up this hate" indeed.  Are you schizophrenic?  Because you seem to alternate between getting and not getting my point.  "Thinking for oneself" is indeed the very nub of my gist.  I strongly STRONGLY recommend it.
> 
> Whatever the rest of this dump is about, obviously you're conversing with some voice in your head.  I don't live in Detroit, or a plantation, I don't listen to commercial radio, certainly not "the bounce 105.1" whatever the fuck that is, I've posted nothing even vaguely resembling anything even tangentially related to whatever the fuck you're droning on and on and on and on about.   Yanno it's posssible that might just be why you _can't_ quote me saying whatever it is you're pulling out of your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said YOUR party needs to keep up spewing your hate. It got us Trump and it will get us the midterm. Even if you're to dumb to understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again, I have no "party".  I don't believe in 'em.  I also have no radio capable of receiving "Bouncy bouncy 105", have posted nothing about "hate" or "midterms", and have no idea where you're trying to go with this endless march of aimless word salads.  Take your medications.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, this is actually a pretty good example of what I'm saying about your argument.  jknowgood is lumping you in with Democrats, or liberals, because he thinks you and that group (those groups) use the same thought process regarding blacks.  He's talking about Kanye West, a rapper/entertainer, who has recently been praising Trump and has gotten flack for it.  I believe jknowgood is saying that liberals tend to think of blacks as all being basically the same; all following liberal/Democrat philosophy.
> 
> That you don't even know who Kanye West is doesn't matter, because he's pegged you as having the same thought processes as the people who are acting toward Kanye West the way he believes they are acting.
> 
> Of course this isn't an exact analogy, but I would guess that the majority of people who oppose sitting during the anthem are not also wanting that to be enshrined in law or forced upon others.  However, you seem to be lumping all people together who want Americans to stand during the anthem, because somehow the thought process involved in wanting people to stand is the same.  When you then make your extreme comparisons, you are comparing both the person who wants kneelers to be shot and the person who would prefer people to stand but would never think of forcing someone to do so.
> 
> If, instead, you are only discussing those who would see standing for the anthem forced upon others, then you have not been clear in making that distinction, and that's where the problem has arisen.  Your posts have seemed to include everyone who is opposed to kneeling during the anthem, whatever form that opposition takes.
Click to expand...


Seems to me the poster's blanket generalization ass-sumption as you describe above, is closely related to the mob mentality I describe, in that it dismisses any variation of expectations and lumps entire (perceived) groups together.  It is the enemy of the Open Mind.  Blanket generalization fallacies always are.

I've clearly and repeatedly distinguished the difference between those who want to *enforce *the flag fascism under pain of (torture, loss of employment, etc) and those who do not.  The former have been my target throughout.  If you can cite somewhere I lumped them together, please quote me.

I seem to have heard the name Kanye West somewhere, though I have no idea who he is and really don't care.  If he wants to praise Rump, that's his business. Unless of course he's advocating enforcing mob mentality as my targets are.


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