# Exposing Another Conservative Lie



## Dana7360

This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.

Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.

Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.


10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


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## OldUSAFSniper

I hope like hell that you don't live in one of those states.  Apparently, my state, the state of Oklahoma is listed as #8 on that list.  Course, the first five shootings in Tulsa for 2015 were armed robbers and home invaders that got killed while in the commission of crimes.  And I'm supposed to feel bad about this?

Don't come here.  Stay far away.  We have tornadoes, flash floods, prairie fires, rattle snakes, copper heads, tarantulas, micro bursts, baseball sized hail, and the list goes on and on.  If I was you, I'd stay in a state on one of the coasts.  Us Okies, we'll just try and survive without you.  It'll be tough to go on without another whiny assed liberal trying to tell us what to do, but we'll give it our best shot.  I mean really, how in God's name did we survive without so many of you well-intention know-it-alls sticking your finger into the festering sore of our small corner of America.  

I think I'll go out and shoot...


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## Hugo Furst

And the top most dangerous cities?

Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart

Going to claim they are also red?


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## Hugo Furst

OldUSAFSniper said:


> I hope like hell that you don't live in one of those states.  Apparently, my state, the state of Oklahoma is listed as #8 on that list.  Course, the first five shootings in Tulsa for 2015 were armed robbers and home invaders that got killed while in the commission of crimes.  And I'm supposed to feel bad about this?
> 
> Don't come here.  Stay far away.  We have tornadoes, flash floods, prairie fires, rattle snakes, copper heads, tarantulas, micro bursts, baseball sized hail, and the list goes on and on.  If I was you, I'd stay in a state on one of the coasts.  Us Okies, we'll just try and survive without you.  It'll be tough to go on without another whiny assed liberal trying to tell us what to do, but we'll give it our best shot.  I mean really, how in God's name did we survive without so many of you well-intention know-it-alls sticking your finger into the festering sore of our small corner of America.
> 
> I think I'll go out and shoot...



Spent about 2 hours at the range this morning.

Love being in the fresh air.


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## Pete7469

Stay the fuck out of Texas too you fascist pig.


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## Pete7469

WillHaftawaite said:


> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?



Take democrook controlled cities out of the picture and we'd have the crime rate of Fiji.


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## Kosh

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.



The far left always shows their debunked religious dogma with such posts..

Most of the large cities in "red" states are run by far left drones like yourself that think if they throw enough money at the problem, that will fix it. Has not worked on any level, but yet the far left continues to push for gun "control" when they want a wide open border.

Silly far left drones..


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## gipper

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


Apparently you failed to read the article you posted.  Do you work for the NY Times or WaPo?

This from the article:
*As in many other states with high gun-death rates, the vast majority of deaths were the result of suicide.*


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## Sonny Clark

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


It's NOT guns, it's the people that use guns for the wrong reasons. If guns weren't available, those same people would use knives, baseball bats, home-made bombs, bows and arrows, dart guns, lead pipes, poisons, rope, acid, and anything else they could find that would do the same job.

A loaded gun can lay on a table for years and not harm a single person. Guns are safe until human hands pick them up. I have guns in my home and they harm no one. I know many people that own guns, and those guns harm no one. The problem is PEOPLE, not guns. Besides, laws, rules, and regulations, can not keep guns out of the hands of those that really want them. Guns are sold from the trunks of cars, on the street, at gun shows, pawn shops, through private sales, traded for cash or other items, and are readily available for anyone that really wants one. I bought a Mauser rifle off the internet from an individual. All I did was sign a sales receipt.

So, say what you want about guns, but just keep in mind where the real problem lies. Also, how many guns have been given away by our own government that eventually end up in the hands of drug dealers and gangs?


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## Hossfly

Pete7469 said:


> Stay the fuck out of Texas too you fascist pig.


Don't want him anywhere near Cowtown.


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## AmericanFirst1

OldUSAFSniper said:


> I hope like hell that you don't live in one of those states.  Apparently, my state, the state of Oklahoma is listed as #8 on that list.  Course, the first five shootings in Tulsa for 2015 were armed robbers and home invaders that got killed while in the commission of crimes.  And I'm supposed to feel bad about this?
> 
> Don't come here.  Stay far away.  We have tornadoes, flash floods, prairie fires, rattle snakes, copper heads, tarantulas, micro bursts, baseball sized hail, and the list goes on and on.  If I was you, I'd stay in a state on one of the coasts.  Us Okies, we'll just try and survive without you.  It'll be tough to go on without another whiny assed liberal trying to tell us what to do, but we'll give it our best shot.  I mean really, how in God's name did we survive without so many of you well-intention know-it-alls sticking your finger into the festering sore of our small corner of America.
> 
> I think I'll go out and shoot...


Libtard facts are always screwed up.


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## AmericanFirst1

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


Obviously a libtard post being not truthful.


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## rightwinger

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


Notice they have no restrictions on handguns

Comes in handy when someone pisses you off


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## rightwinger

Sonny Clark said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> It's NOT guns, it's the people that use guns for the wrong reasons. If guns weren't available, those same people would use knives, baseball bats, home-made bombs, bows and arrows, dart guns, lead pipes, poisons, rope, acid, and anything else they could find that would do the same job.
> 
> A loaded gun can lay on a table for years and not harm a single person. Guns are safe until human hands pick them up. I have guns in my home and they harm no one. I know many people that own guns, and those guns harm no one. The problem is PEOPLE, not guns. Besides, laws, rules, and regulations, can not keep guns out of the hands of those that really want them. Guns are sold from the trunks of cars, on the street, at gun shows, pawn shops, through private sales, traded for cash or other items, and are readily available for anyone that really wants one. I bought a Mauser rifle off the internet from an individual. All I did was sign a sales receipt.
> 
> So, say what you want about guns, but just keep in mind where the real problem lies. Also, how many guns have been given away by our own government that eventually end up in the hands of drug dealers and gangs?
Click to expand...


Very true

Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people

Ask the people in Sandy Hook and Aurora


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## TemplarKormac

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.



Funny how liberals call everything a conservative says "a lie" but fail to consider that they tell them, too.


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## 2aguy

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.




Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......


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## 2aguy

WillHaftawaite said:


> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?




And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......

When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....


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## 2aguy

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.




And they are adding in police shootings as well......of course they are....


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## Pete7469

Hossfly said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stay the fuck out of Texas too you fascist pig.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't want him anywhere near Cowtown.
Click to expand...


Don't even want the sumbitch in the USA.

They've got all the gun control he wants in North Korea. He should go there.


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## 2aguy

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.




And now for the declaration..this is bullshit.......

for Wyoming....sucides....



> With the second highest firearm-related suicide rate, Wyoming residents were more than twice as likely to commit suicide as residents across the nation. More than 87% of firearm deaths in Wyoming were due to suicide, considerably higher than the 63% of all gun-related fatalities across the country.




If they don't use suicide they can't push the gun control agenda........again...Japan has 2 times our suicide rate....and extreme gun control....


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## Luddly Neddite

Pete7469 said:


> Stay the fuck out of Texas too you fascist pig.




I agree.

Texasss beats up on little kids for daring to have fun at a pool party and the racist cockroaches who ganged up on those kids are probably planning a little 2nd amendment payback for having been caught in the mess of their own making.


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## 2aguy

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.




And more crap...Arkansas....

There were 501 deaths by firearm in Arkansas, or 16.7 per 100,000, the sixth highest rate. Like other states in the country, nearly two-thirds of gun-related deaths were due to suicide.


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## Hugo Furst

rightwinger said:


> Sonny Clark said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> It's NOT guns, it's the people that use guns for the wrong reasons. If guns weren't available, those same people would use knives, baseball bats, home-made bombs, bows and arrows, dart guns, lead pipes, poisons, rope, acid, and anything else they could find that would do the same job.
> 
> A loaded gun can lay on a table for years and not harm a single person. Guns are safe until human hands pick them up. I have guns in my home and they harm no one. I know many people that own guns, and those guns harm no one. The problem is PEOPLE, not guns. Besides, laws, rules, and regulations, can not keep guns out of the hands of those that really want them. Guns are sold from the trunks of cars, on the street, at gun shows, pawn shops, through private sales, traded for cash or other items, and are readily available for anyone that really wants one. I bought a Mauser rifle off the internet from an individual. All I did was sign a sales receipt.
> 
> So, say what you want about guns, but just keep in mind where the real problem lies. Also, how many guns have been given away by our own government that eventually end up in the hands of drug dealers and gangs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people
> 
> Ask the people in Sandy Hook and Aurora
Click to expand...



Nope, people with guns dont' kill people.
I've had guns since I was 12, and never killed anyone.

The majority of my family, and most of my ancestors, have owned guns, and not one of them have killed anyone, except in a time of war.

300+ million guns in the country, and the large majority of them have never killed anyone.

150+ million gun owners, ( yes, it's a guess. I've read the number is between 100 million and 200 million), and the majority have never killed anyone.

But, keep giving up bumper sticker logic.


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## Luddly Neddite

2aguy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
Click to expand...



So prove its not true. 

You can't and you know it. 

You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.

My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.


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## 2aguy

And of course...New Mexico....a border state with Mexico.......I wonder if being next to the Mexican drug cartel country has anything to do with their gun violence rate.....and where did the guns come from.....obama and eric holder?


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## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...



The democrats have run Detroit, Baltimore and New Orleans...for decades....dittos with the 24 out of the 25 most dangerous cities......try tracking down the list of mayors of these cities...you'll see...I did it...you can do it....


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## 2aguy

Hmm....Oakland California...do the republicans run that city?


2aguy said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The democrats have run Detroit, Baltimore and New Orleans...for decades....dittos with the 24 out of the 25 most dangerous cities......try tracking down the list of mayors of these cities...you'll see...I did it...you can do it....
Click to expand...


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## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...


Memphis....democrat mayors....search List of Mayors of Memphis......


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## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...



cleveland....goes back and forth between Republicans and democrats...so the republicans try to fix things and then the democrats come back in and screw them up....


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## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...


Philadelphia....democrat mayors since 1956.......


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## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...



Kansas City, Missouri....democrat mayors...since the 1930s....


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## Derideo_Te

From the OP link...

*Educational attainment rates also tended to be lower in states with the most gun violence. *​
Says volumes, doesn't it?


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## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...



Chicago Illinois....hmmmm...I wonder which political party has held the mayors office since the 1930s?  Yes...democrats again....


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## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...



Milwaukee, Wisconsin....mostly democrats with the odd socialist thrown in....since the 30s or longer.....

Notice a pattern to the cities with the most gun violence.......


----------



## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...



And Tulsa, Oklahoma.....again...a mix of republicans and democrats.......


----------



## 2aguy

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.




And of course they have added suicides, and police shootings to make the numbers higher.....and border states with the problem of drug cartels to deal with.....

And of course.....they hide the one important fact.....more Americans own guns than ever before...they own and carry them...

and the national gun violence rate.........is going down....not up.......only 8,454 gun murders in 2013....in a country of over 90 million homes with guns in them and those murders are concentrated in gang and drug infested cities......24 out of 25 of the most violent controlled by democrats........

And with 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense...what is the total number of gun accidents in the country for 2013.....

505....in a country of over 320 million people....with over 320 million guns in private hands.....

and of course.....19 studies of self defense with guns show that if you exclude military and police shootings...which the original post does not.......the American people use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack on average 2 million times a year.......

And again....the gun murder rate is going down, not up.....and the gun accident rate is going down...not up.....

So thanks for cherry picking the data...and proving again that gun grabbers like yourself can only lie and emote on a topic.....because you fear people...and have a phobia about an object..guns.....which cause fewer deaths each year than drowning, falling and car accidents.........

Nice try...try to actually understand the topic....


----------



## Luddly Neddite

WillHaftawaite said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonny Clark said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> It's NOT guns, it's the people that use guns for the wrong reasons. If guns weren't available, those same people would use knives, baseball bats, home-made bombs, bows and arrows, dart guns, lead pipes, poisons, rope, acid, and anything else they could find that would do the same job.
> 
> A loaded gun can lay on a table for years and not harm a single person. Guns are safe until human hands pick them up. I have guns in my home and they harm no one. I know many people that own guns, and those guns harm no one. The problem is PEOPLE, not guns. Besides, laws, rules, and regulations, can not keep guns out of the hands of those that really want them. Guns are sold from the trunks of cars, on the street, at gun shows, pawn shops, through private sales, traded for cash or other items, and are readily available for anyone that really wants one. I bought a Mauser rifle off the internet from an individual. All I did was sign a sales receipt.
> 
> So, say what you want about guns, but just keep in mind where the real problem lies. Also, how many guns have been given away by our own government that eventually end up in the hands of drug dealers and gangs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people
> 
> Ask the people in Sandy Hook and Aurora
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, people with guns dont' kill people.
> I've had guns since I was 12, and never killed anyone.
> 
> The majority of my family, and most of my ancestors, have owned guns, and not one of them have killed anyone, except in a time of war.
> 
> 300+ million guns in the country, and the large majority of them have never killed anyone.
> 
> 150+ million gun owners, ( yes, it's a guess. I've read the number is between 100 million and 200 million), and the majority have never killed anyone.
> 
> But, keep giving up bumper sticker logic.
Click to expand...




_"... people with guns dont' [sic] kill people."_

I've had guns my entire life and have never shot anyone but that argument is ridiculous.

People with guns DO shoot people.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

2aguy said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And Tulsa, Oklahoma.....again...a mix of republicans and democrats.......
Click to expand...



IOW, you're desperate to change the subject so no one will notice that you cannot prove what you said. 

Prove the quote is, as you so eloquently stated, _"bullshit"_. 

Thanks.


----------



## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
Click to expand...




> So prove its not true.




Luddly...if you didn't have lies and emotion......how would you communicate to your handlers it was feeding time...?

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208


Accidental gun deaths 2013......505


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

"Exposing Another Conservative Lie"

An entire message board would be needed to accommodate such a subject.


----------



## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And Tulsa, Oklahoma.....again...a mix of republicans and democrats.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you're desperate to change the subject so no one will notice that you cannot prove what you said.
> 
> Prove the quote is, as you so eloquently stated, _"bullshit"_.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...



Luddly...they add police shootings and suicides....the whole thread is crap.......the post that shows the most violent cities is correct...and they are controlled by democrats...also the truth.....


----------



## hipeter924

There was one apartment building that used to have tenants that took pot shots at moving cars in outer D.C.*

I get the feeling they were turfed out for the noise, as it hasn't happened at all recently.

*Which is an annoyance, as replacing a tire and getting new glass put in, costs a bit. Came close to that.


----------



## Hugo Furst

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> "Exposing Another Conservative Lie"
> 
> An entire message board would be needed to accommodate such a subject.


Fear not.

I'm sure there will be more than ample bandwidth remaining to expose liberal lies


----------



## 2aguy

WillHaftawaite said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Exposing Another Conservative Lie"
> 
> An entire message board would be needed to accommodate such a subject.
> 
> 
> 
> Fear not.
> 
> I'm sure there will be more than ample bandwidth remaining to expose liberal lies
Click to expand...



You can't get that much bandwidth for liberal lies.....it is part of their DNA and just about everything they do is full of lies....


----------



## Luddly Neddite

2aguy said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly...if you didn't have lies and emotion......how would you communicate to your handlers it was feeding time...?
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......35,369
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
> 
> 
> Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
Click to expand...



Here we go again with the lamest excuse of all:

People die of other reasons so its okay that they die from gun violence. 

don't forget your fave - Children drown so its okay to shoot them. 

And you still can't prove the quote was "bullshit".


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
Click to expand...

Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy


----------



## Luddly Neddite

2aguy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Exposing Another Conservative Lie"
> 
> An entire message board would be needed to accommodate such a subject.
> 
> 
> 
> Fear not.
> 
> I'm sure there will be more than ample bandwidth remaining to expose liberal lies
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You can't get that much bandwidth for liberal lies.....it is part of their DNA and just about everything they do is full of lies....
Click to expand...



Says the rabid RW who can't prove his own lie that the quote above is "bullshit"?


----------



## bripat9643

Pete7469 said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take democrook controlled cities out of the picture and we'd have the crime rate of Fiji.
Click to expand...


Aside from Alaska, Wyoming and Montana they are all poor states with large concentrations of blacks or Hispanics.  Wyoming, Montana and Alaska are the last of the frontier states and sparsely populated.  They have always had high crime rate.  I recall when I 18 I worked in Wyoming for my summer job.  At the time the town of Rock Springs had the highest crime rate of any city in the entire country.  At the time Wyoming was experiencing an oil boom and the population of the town had quadrupled overnight.  Most of the residences in the town were mobile homes.  That kind of environment tends to attract criminals.


----------



## bripat9643

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
Click to expand...


They don't count because they are self-inflicted.  There is no victim.


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
Click to expand...



And in countries like Japan....and South Korea....they hang themselves at 2 times the rate our people use guns.......and those countries with strict gun control...they use rope, or poison, or jumping in front of trains......so no....the method does not count...suicidal people will commit suicide with what they have....


----------



## 2aguy

Luddly Neddite said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the top most dangerous cities?
> 
> Gun Homicides in America 11 U.S. Cities With Double-Digit Rates of Gun Homicides TakePart
> 
> Going to claim they are also red?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And from the first three on the list...all democrat run cities with democrat policies toward the police and crime.......
> 
> When you see a post with Thinkprogress as the source of the quote it will be bullshit.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> You can't and you know it.
> 
> You guys hiding behind your computer screens are all just so big and bad and mean and tough.
> 
> My bet is that not of you silly twits can get it up and spend your time caressing your guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prove its not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly...if you didn't have lies and emotion......how would you communicate to your handlers it was feeding time...?
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......35,369
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
> 
> 
> Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again with the lamest excuse of all:
> 
> People die of other reasons so its okay that they die from gun violence.
> 
> don't forget your fave - Children drown so its okay to shoot them.
> 
> And you still can't prove the quote was "bullshit".
Click to expand...



Remind me dud.....which quote was it again?  and yes...it was bullshit whatever it was...


----------



## rightwinger

bripat9643 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't count because they are self-inflicted.  There is no victim.
Click to expand...

There is a dead body...and a smoking gun


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And in countries like Japan....and South Korea....they hang themselves at 2 times the rate our people use guns.......and those countries with strict gun control...they use rope, or poison, or jumping in front of trains......so no....the method does not count...suicidal people will commit suicide with what they have....
Click to expand...

Different culture

We are talking about the good ole USA and it's love of guns killing 34,000 a year


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't count because they are self-inflicted.  There is no victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a dead body...and a smoking gun
Click to expand...



And in Japan and south Korea there is a dead body....and a taut rope........or a stopped train........or a messy sidewalk.....


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And in countries like Japan....and South Korea....they hang themselves at 2 times the rate our people use guns.......and those countries with strict gun control...they use rope, or poison, or jumping in front of trains......so no....the method does not count...suicidal people will commit suicide with what they have....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Different culture
> 
> We are talking about the good ole USA and it's love of guns killing 34,000 a year
Click to expand...



No.....you guys have to add suicide to get your numbers up...knowing that they will just use rope, jump off bridges or use pills.........and gun murders for 2013...only 8,454......gun accidents...505.....in a country of over 320 million people....which is why you have to use siucide.........505...not a big number....


----------



## Hugo Furst

A year ago, it was 30,000...


and dropping.


----------



## eagle1462010

Alabama is 4th on the list...............Stay away Liberals it's not safe here...............PRAY for us Gun Toting, Bible carrying red neck southerners..............................For your own safety................

BTW I've been doing an experiment..............My 9 is in the drawer.............I've been scared it would jump out of the dresser drawer and kill us all..............Pray the experiment turns out well.................because as you people say guns kill people................scary shit liberals.


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.



What a hilarious thread that the moronic OP doesnt even realize her link destroys her own argument.

Number 1 on the list is Alaska 19.6 deaths per 100,000 people in 2013.

That's .000196% chance of being killed by firearm.

In the deadliest state

By coincidence New Orleans was THE deadliest city in that same year with you guessed in NINETEEN fucking deaths per 100,000 citizens. Anyone wanna argue that New Orleans is or was a red city?

But pointing out that 19 firearm deaths per 100K is neither red nor blue is just icing on the cake of stupidity.

The cake is this.

Leading Cause of Death by Census Area Alaska

The overall death rate in Alaska in 2013 was 713 per 100K people. So let's do a little math, shall we. Yep 2.5% of deaths in Alaska in 2013 were the result of firearms

You are an idiot Dana


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And in countries like Japan....and South Korea....they hang themselves at 2 times the rate our people use guns.......and those countries with strict gun control...they use rope, or poison, or jumping in front of trains......so no....the method does not count...suicidal people will commit suicide with what they have....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Different culture
> 
> We are talking about the good ole USA and it's love of guns killing 34,000 a year
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No.....you guys have to add suicide to get your numbers up...knowing that they will just use rope, jump off bridges or use pills.........and gun murders for 2013...only 8,454......gun accidents...505.....in a country of over 320 million people....which is why you have to use siucide.........505...not a big number....
Click to expand...

Get the numbers up?
We have 34,000 dead bodies a year

Gun accidents?  only 505 a year

That's because the other 33,500 are "on purpose"


----------



## eagle1462010

Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout

*Rank* *City*
30 Baton Rouge, LA
29 Youngstown, OH
28 San Bernardino, CA
27 Oakland, CA
26 Barberton, OH
25 Poughkeepsie, NY
24 Cincinnati, OH
23 Petersburg, VA
22 Wilmington, DE
21 York, PA
20 East Palo Alto, CA
19 Jackson, MS
18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
17 Birmingham, AL
16 East Point, GA
15 East Chicago, IN
14 Compton, CA
13 Baltimore, MD
12 St. Louis, MO
11 Harvey, IL
10 Newark, NJ
9 New Orleans, LA
8 Trenton, NJ
7 Detroit, MI
6 Flint, MI
5 Saginaw, MI
4 Chester, PA
3 Gary, IN
2 Camden, NJ
1 East St. Louis, IL


----------



## rightwinger

eagle1462010 said:


> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL


Lot of guns.....lot of dead people


----------



## eagle1462010

rightwinger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
Click to expand...

They are banning guns in the NYC area.....................are there still gun deaths there................

There are laws against speeding.............people still speed................

BTW..............why would you punish the innocent for the acts of the criminals......................

and if we create a gun ban will the criminals give up their guns..........I think not.........

and so the soap opera goes on.


----------



## Iceweasel

Dana hollowed out her brain on pot. There's not much left except regurgitate what she sees on HuffPo.


----------



## rightwinger

eagle1462010 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are banning guns in the NYC area.....................are there still gun deaths there................
> 
> There are laws against speeding.............people still speed................
> 
> BTW..............why would you punish the innocent for the acts of the criminals......................
> 
> and if we create a gun ban will the criminals give up their guns..........I think not.........
> 
> and so the soap opera goes on.
Click to expand...

I didn't see NYC on your list

It has a lower homicide rate than the Red States in the OP


----------



## Steinlight

There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.


----------



## bripat9643

rightwinger said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't count because they are self-inflicted.  There is no victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a dead body...and a smoking gun
Click to expand...


There's no victim, moron.


----------



## rightwinger

Steinlight said:


> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.


Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation


----------



## rightwinger

bripat9643 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't count because they are self-inflicted.  There is no victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a dead body...and a smoking gun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no victim, moron.
Click to expand...


Never heard of a suicide victim?
Their family, friends and loved ones are also victims


----------



## bripat9643

rightwinger said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
Click to expand...


You blamed the negroes, moron, only you didn't realize it.


----------



## bripat9643

rightwinger said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...adding suicides......don't count....Japan has no civilian gun ownership and 2 times the suicide rate...also...Tennessee....the six largest cities including 2 of the most violent cities in the country,Memphis and Nashville....are all run by democrats....even in a red state......
> 
> 
> 
> Suicides count and a readily accessible gun makes it soooooo easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't count because they are self-inflicted.  There is no victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a dead body...and a smoking gun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no victim, moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never heard of a suicide victim?
> Their family, friends and loved ones are also victims
Click to expand...


No, I never heard of a suicide victim.  Look up the definition of "victim."


----------



## Hugo Furst

rightwinger said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
Click to expand...



300 million guns in circulation

30,000 deaths.

Wonder what percentage that is?


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.



Thing we emphasize the tool too much and not the actual issue - violence. The links between various things and violence is well understood. Religion, sexual repression and suppression, poverty, and education. Instead of blaming the car for drunk driving we blame the drunk driver. As it should be with guns. Isn't the gun's fault, but the operator of the gun.


----------



## Steinlight

rightwinger said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
Click to expand...

Yea basically. There is no evidence that a high gun ownership rate correlates to a higher murder rate. Whereas the states the op listed like Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama etc have large black populations,  and new Mexico a large Hispanic one.


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are banning guns in the NYC area.....................are there still gun deaths there................
> 
> There are laws against speeding.............people still speed................
> 
> BTW..............why would you punish the innocent for the acts of the criminals......................
> 
> and if we create a gun ban will the criminals give up their guns..........I think not.........
> 
> and so the soap opera goes on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see NYC on your list
> 
> It has a lower homicide rate than the Red States in the OP
Click to expand...



they used to have a Republican Mayor named Rudy Guiliani.....he instituted policies that cut the crime rate and his successors followed his lead.........except......for the new socialist deblasio....he stopped stop and frisk and has come out against his own police force...

So......home invasions are already up in New York...and the murder rate is going up as well...the criminals are no longer afraid they will be stopped when they are carrying a gun.....

thanks lefty gun grabbers....a Republican turned New York around...and you are turning it back....


----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

rightwinger said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
Click to expand...


Hypothetical.

Which of these scenarios do you think would have the most impact on the crime stats in this country.

Removing 300 million guns

or

Removing 30 million negroes?


----------



## 2aguy

WillHaftawaite said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
Click to expand...



And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......


----------



## rightwinger

WillHaftawaite said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
Click to expand...

Good god...are you really going there?

What number would you be satisfied with?
50,000?
100,000?


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
Click to expand...


505 "accidental gun deaths"
31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"


----------



## Steinlight

rightwinger said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good god...are you really going there?
> 
> What number would you be satisfied with?
> 50,000?
> 100,000?
Click to expand...

We should go there since your intent on promoting falsehoods.  Your promoting the idea reducing the number of guns will reduce the murder rate, when there is no correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership rate. Whereas Blacks commit half of the murders, and this is a fact as shown by FBI data


----------



## eagle1462010

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
Click to expand...

Which is .00987% of the population of the United States............as we have 318.9 million people here.


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
Click to expand...



You mean 22, 541 suicides....and in Japan that would be 45,082 deaths by hanging, jumping in front of trains and poison....no guns used at all......a person taking their own life will take it using whatever is at hand....a girl my mother worked with did it with a can of gasoline in her car.....so adding suicides into the number is a lame attempt to increase your numbers.......

only 8,454 gun murders....mostly by gang members and drug dealers in the inner cities....concentrated in small, multi block areas....

and 505 accidental gun deaths.............

again...drowning, falling and cars kill way more people...and you don't care about those deaths.....


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
Click to expand...



And now again, the truth and reality....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*


*Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*

*
So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......

Gun murder 2013....8,454....*


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505


----------



## Hugo Furst

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hypothetical.
> 
> Which of these scenarios do you think would have the most impact on the crime stats in this country.
> 
> Removing 300 million guns
> 
> or
> 
> Removing 30 million negroes?
Click to expand...


Hypothetically...trying to take 300 million guns from their owners is going to create MAJOR problems.

and increase the underground gun sale business.

Doubt you will be able to get 30 million blacks to leave either.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


So when you see a gun toting criminal about to break into your home, call the cops. And remind them to send the county coroner.
Statistics can be skewed any way one wants to in order to fulfill an agenda.
Troll thread.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


Go bake cookies, you twit.


----------



## 2aguy

Do you anti-gun nuts realize that non firearm suicides are 19,974 in 2013.....that means no guns used.....

With guns 21,175......so tell us again that people will stop committing suicide if they don't have a gun.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


----------



## 2aguy

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.




And again...for new arrivals....more Americans own guns today and actually carry them for self defense.....there are over 320 million people...and over 320 million guns in private hands.....and 90 million homes with guns in them....and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense..........

And the gun murder rate is going down.....not up.....and the accidental gun death rate is going down...not up....

Again....more people own and carry guns than ever before.....

And the crime rate as well as the gun murder rate is going down......your post is stupid......but....as an anti gunner...that is to be expected.....


----------



## rightwinger

Steinlight said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good god...are you really going there?
> 
> What number would you be satisfied with?
> 50,000?
> 100,000?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should go there since your intent on promoting falsehoods.  Your promoting the idea reducing the number of guns will reduce the murder rate, when there is no correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership rate. Whereas Blacks commit half of the murders, and this is a fact as shown by FBI data
Click to expand...

Of course there is a correlation

No other civilized nation has the number of guns we have in open circulation 
No other nation has to endure our murder rate

Most have a murder rate one fifth of ours


----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

WillHaftawaite said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hypothetical.
> 
> Which of these scenarios do you think would have the most impact on the crime stats in this country.
> 
> Removing 300 million guns
> 
> or
> 
> Removing 30 million negroes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hypothetically...trying to take 300 million guns from their owners is going to create MAJOR problems.
> 
> and increase the underground gun sale business.
> 
> Doubt you will be able to get 30 million blacks to leave either.
Click to expand...



To be clear, I don't think EITHER should happen. I was merely setting up a hypothetical.

It is clear from the statistics that all the whining and wailing about guns is partisan bullshit. Even when counting ALL gun deaths in the equation , i the state with the HIGHEST gun deaths per , gun deaths still only account for 2.5% of all deaths.

2.5% is a statistical error, I mean of course every death matters, but the fact remains we cant even say with any certainty that most of those who die from guns every year wouldn't die from other means if guns weren't available.

That's just the non partisan truth.


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
Click to expand...


Accidental deaths?
Are you serious?

With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good god...are you really going there?
> 
> What number would you be satisfied with?
> 50,000?
> 100,000?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should go there since your intent on promoting falsehoods.  Your promoting the idea reducing the number of guns will reduce the murder rate, when there is no correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership rate. Whereas Blacks commit half of the murders, and this is a fact as shown by FBI data
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there is a correlation
> 
> No other civilized nation has the number of guns we have in open circulation
> No other nation has to endure our murder rate
> 
> Most have a murder rate one fifth of ours
Click to expand...



And those other nations had less murder before they banned their guns.........and since Britain banned their guns their violent crime rate is now 2 times our violent crime rate......without guns......

Culture is the factor....inner city gangs and drug dealers cause our gun murder problem...get them under control and our gun murder rate is the same or lower than Europe...

And again.....in France....a country you anti-gun nuts love....which has extreme gun control....no gun stores, no access to guns for civilians......they had 3 terrorists....2 on a government terrorist watch list, one a convicted felon.....bought fully automatic rifles, hand grenades, pistols, a rocket propelled grenade and 30 round magazines....by crossing an international border into a country that also has extreme gun control laws...crossed back....and did it easily...and used those guns when they wanted to...

And that same week.....masked gunmen shot up a Marseilles neighborhood with fully automatic weapons hours before the French Prime Minister was going there to give a speech on successful crime prevention......

Criminals in Europe can get whatever guns they want, when they want or need them easily.......with gun laws that are extreme compared to our.....


----------



## Hugo Furst

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
Click to expand...



Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.


----------



## Toro

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Don't come here.  Stay far away.



Will do.

You don't have to tell me twice!


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
Click to expand...



Suicides don't count...they can commit suicide with anything they want and do so in Japan, South Korea and other countries with strict gun control laws....rope is the preferred method.....

and we only had 8,454 gun murders.......intentional taking of a life with a gun.......in 2013 and that number is way down from past years.....

With our increased gun ownership our gun murder rate is going down, not up.....


----------



## Hugo Furst

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Suicides don't count...they can commit suicide with anything they want and do so in Japan, South Korea and other countries with strict gun control laws....rope is the preferred method.....
> 
> and we only had 8,454 gun murders.......intentional taking of a life with a gun.......in 2013 and that number is way down from past years.....
> 
> With our increased gun ownership our gun murder rate is going down, not up.....
Click to expand...



But, but, but....if they don't have a gun, they aren't going to kill themselves.

They aren't going to jump off a building, drink poison, cut their wrists, etc...

The gun MADE them commit suicide.


----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

WillHaftawaite said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
Click to expand...


I hate to tell you Sparky but there are all manner of accidental deaths , including accidental gun deaths, and all manner of intentional deaths, including drownings and overdoses


----------



## jillian

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.



they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.


----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

jillian said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
Click to expand...


bullshit.

Name the last mass shooting committed by a white Christian with a legal gun


----------



## Steinlight

rightwinger said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no statistical correlation between the gun ownership rate and the murder rate state to state. But I am not surprised many southern red states have high murder rates, given their sizable black populations.
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good god...are you really going there?
> 
> What number would you be satisfied with?
> 50,000?
> 100,000?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should go there since your intent on promoting falsehoods.  Your promoting the idea reducing the number of guns will reduce the murder rate, when there is no correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership rate. Whereas Blacks commit half of the murders, and this is a fact as shown by FBI data
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there is a correlation
> 
> No other civilized nation has the number of guns we have in open circulation
> No other nation has to endure our murder rate
> 
> Most have a murder rate one fifth of ours
Click to expand...

In the US, state by state, there is no correlation between gun ownership and the murder rate
For example, the District of Columbia has the lowest gun ownership rate(3.7%), but the highest gun murder rate of the 50 states and D.C.(16 per 100,000) Wyoming has the highest gun ownership rate(59.7%), but the 7th lowest gun murder rate at 0.9 per 100,000(behind Iowa, Idaho, and Utah who tie for 6th at 0.8 per 100,000). The gun ownership rates in those three states respectively are 42.9%(16th highest gun ownership rate), 55.3%(6th highest gun ownership rate), and 43.9%(14th highest gun ownership).

This is just to give you idea there is no statistical correlation between gun ownership rate and the gun murder rate on a state by state basis. 

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

You are simply wrong, there is no correlation between gun ownership rates and murder rate between Western nations. The US is a statistical anomaly because of our large black population. 

If you actually look within the countries of the Western world, there is no correlation between the gun ownership rate and the gun murder rate. 

For example, if we look at table six in this Harvard Study I will link below, Czech Republic has the highest gun murder rate at .92 per 100,000, but about 27 guns per 100,000 in the population, whereas Finland and Sweden have respective 411 guns person 100,00 in the population and 246.65, and have respective gun murder rates of .87 per 100,000 in Finland and .31 per 100,000 in Sweden. 


http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf


----------



## rdean

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


The majority of gun deaths are suicide in Red States by white guys.  I have posted the statistics a dozen times.


----------



## rdean

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bullshit.
> 
> Name the last mass shooting committed by a white Christian with a legal gun
Click to expand...

I'm guessing most of them?  Course, Timothy McVeigh holds the record and though he was both a Christian and a Republican, he didn't actually use a gun.


----------



## SmarterThanTheAverageBear

rdean said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bullshit.
> 
> Name the last mass shooting committed by a white Christian with a legal gun
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm guessing most of them?  Course, Timothy McVeigh holds the record and though he was both a Christian and a Republican, he didn't actually use a gun.
Click to expand...

He wasn't a Christian Rdean, he had renounced his Catholic faith LONG before he blew up the Murrah building, stop lying if you can

and guessing most of them doesn't cut it. name some white christian male mass shooters


----------



## gipper

Anyone or any organization wanting to take away gun rights from law abiding Americans, is tyrannical and ignorant.  

Hence the Left is all about taking away guns.  They will lie and misinform all they can to get what they want.


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good god...are you really going there?
> 
> What number would you be satisfied with?
> 50,000?
> 100,000?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should go there since your intent on promoting falsehoods.  Your promoting the idea reducing the number of guns will reduce the murder rate, when there is no correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership rate. Whereas Blacks commit half of the murders, and this is a fact as shown by FBI data
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there is a correlation
> 
> No other civilized nation has the number of guns we have in open circulation
> No other nation has to endure our murder rate
> 
> Most have a murder rate one fifth of ours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And those other nations had less murder before they banned their guns.........and since Britain banned their guns their violent crime rate is now 2 times our violent crime rate......without guns......
> 
> Culture is the factor....inner city gangs and drug dealers cause our gun murder problem...get them under control and our gun murder rate is the same or lower than Europe...
> 
> And again.....in France....a country you anti-gun nuts love....which has extreme gun control....no gun stores, no access to guns for civilians......they had 3 terrorists....2 on a government terrorist watch list, one a convicted felon.....bought fully automatic rifles, hand grenades, pistols, a rocket propelled grenade and 30 round magazines....by crossing an international border into a country that also has extreme gun control laws...crossed back....and did it easily...and used those guns when they wanted to...
> 
> And that same week.....masked gunmen shot up a Marseilles neighborhood with fully automatic weapons hours before the French Prime Minister was going there to give a speech on successful crime prevention......
> 
> Criminals in Europe can get whatever guns they want, when they want or need them easily.......with gun laws that are extreme compared to our.....
Click to expand...

 
Once again you have to point to single case of gun crime to declare failure

I point to France having one fifth our homicide rate to declare success


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## rightwinger

WillHaftawaite said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
Click to expand...

 
Very true

And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate

Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person

Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy


----------



## M14 Shooter

Dana7360 said:


> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.


Oh look...  and anti-gun loon who either doesn't understand the difference between correlation and causation. or refuses to do so.

In all of these states, it is still illegal to commit a crime with a gun
In all of these states, it is still illegal for felons, etc, to buy, own and possess a gun.
In all of these states, gun buyers must still undergo a background check to purchase a gun
How do the *uncredited *numbers presented prove that the "losening of restrictions" in these states lead to more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them?

Don't worry -- I don't expect a sensible answer.


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## M14 Shooter

Oh...  and lets not forget the benefits of what anti-gun loons call "reasonable" gun control...

CA gun laws require that:
-All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
-All transfers undergo a background check
-All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
-All firearms must be registered
-Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate- a permit.that requires training and a test
-Ban on assault weapons, effective 1 JUN 1989
-Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-Ban on NFA machineguns

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879)   

% US population in CA: 12.12% 
% US murders in CA: 14.71 
% US murders with a gun in CA 14.72  

Citations available at the original post.
The benefit of reasonable gun control..... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## M14 Shooter

jillian said:


> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.


Another meaningless post from our resident shoeshineologist.
Thank you for wasting valuable space.


----------



## M14 Shooter

rdean said:


> I'm guessing most of them?


Of course you are.
You have no reason for this guess, however, other than you hope it is the truth.


----------



## rightwinger

M14 Shooter said:


> Oh...  and lets not forget the benefits of what anti-gun loons call "reasonable" gun control...
> 
> CA gun laws require that:
> -All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
> -All transfers undergo a background check
> -All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
> -All firearms must be registered
> -Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate- a permit.that requires training and a test
> -Ban on assault weapons, effective 1 JUN 1989
> -Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
> -Ban on NFA machineguns
> 
> % of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
> % of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879)
> 
> % US population in CA: 12.12%
> % US murders in CA: 14.71
> % US murders with a gun in CA 14.72
> 
> Citations available at the original post.
> The benefit of reasonable gun control..... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


 
Looks like California has a reason to try to do something about its firearm murder rate


----------



## EverCurious

*sigh* poor Alaska, again the Native Alaskan domestic violence issue rears it's head...  I think they're just mean drunks honestly, I mean the dry cities don't have as big a problem. 

And again I'll note that out poverty rates are a bit out of whack because of the subsistence == money factor the government uses.  A lot of natives are not only piss poor, but they have practically zero chance of finding a job because of distance and travel (a lot of these villages are so far off the grid you can't even land a plane within 50 miles of them,) then they have to deal with domestic violence issues in a situation where they /can't/ get away from their abuser and often get no help or sympathy from their community (we have villages that consist of two families,) then there's prohibition or lack there of, relationship complexities (aka not enough women or men in their village of 50), and perhaps the most ruthless of all; nature. 

It's even worse when their tribal leaders, or the state or feds, decide they've done such a wrong that they have to be shipped 600-800 miles to Anchorage, where the jail is, to do time; then they get out of jail and have no way to get home, often only speak their dialect, and there is pretty much no hope for them - if they even /want/ to go home at all (in cases of domestic abuse.)  They get in trouble for killing moose in town (to eat), they get in trouble for setting up tents on vacant unused (and even unseen) land, they can go to jail for begging, plus our shelter has no choice but to turn away a bunch even when it's fourty below because of fire codes; there just isn't enough room. (And Bean's doesn't even take in the drunk ones; hopefully they get picked up and taken to smaller local jails to sleep it off for the night if someone calls on them, otherwise they oft pass out somewhere and some one finds them frozen a week or two later...)  Then there's the ones who get sick, or have a family member get sick, so they have to come to Anchorage or Wasilla to the Native Hospital's; then get stranded in the same situation, or worse they simply give up on life because their loved one died. 

It's a big problem that we haven't found a solution to yet.  I wish it was as easy as throwing money at it, but even that wouldn't resolve it...   

That said, outside of domestic violence we're a pretty safe state.  Almost everyone has a gun for the "right" reasons as well, bears, wolves, even moose, are a serious threat to human life up here.  Even in the big city you'll run into Grizzly's with cubs.  We lose at least two bikers a year to bears on our extensive bike trails alone; "Hey guyz!  Lets run a bunch of near silent rolling bikes through the middle of a completely wild area where bears are known to raise their cubs. Stellar idea! Yeah! Then we can bill it as a tourist attraction for people who don't know to ring bells, talk loudly, whistle, or pack a gun or even bear spray!!"  Bunch of dorks, but uhm I digress...


----------



## Hugo Furst

rightwinger said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And only 8,454 are gun murder, and only 505 are accidental gun deaths...the rest suicide....and if you were to ban guns....you would have 21,041 people hanging themselves...which is the most popular method around the world, or jumping off bridges...you could have suicide tourism for the Golden Gate Bridge......and taking pillls or poison......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
Click to expand...



"And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"

and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.


----------



## rightwinger

WillHaftawaite said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
Click to expand...

 
Actually there aren't.
We have the same number of motor vehicle deaths as we do firearms. Drownings in no way even approaches the number of firearm deaths
But the big difference is that drowning and car fatalities are ACCIDENTS
Firearms deaths are ON PURPOSE


----------



## Hugo Furst

rightwinger said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually there aren't.
> We have the same number of motor vehicle deaths as we do firearms. Drownings in no way even approaches the number of firearm deaths
> But the big difference is that drowning and car fatalities are ACCIDENTS
> Firearms deaths are ON PURPOSE
Click to expand...



"Firearms deaths are ON PURPOSE"

not according to CDC, FBI, etc, or they wouldn't have a separate listing  'accidental shootings'.

I'll take THEIR word over yours, or Bloombergs.


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## 2aguy

Steinlight said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the negroes.......not the 300 million guns we have in circulation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good god...are you really going there?
> 
> What number would you be satisfied with?
> 50,000?
> 100,000?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should go there since your intent on promoting falsehoods.  Your promoting the idea reducing the number of guns will reduce the murder rate, when there is no correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership rate. Whereas Blacks commit half of the murders, and this is a fact as shown by FBI data
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there is a correlation
> 
> No other civilized nation has the number of guns we have in open circulation
> No other nation has to endure our murder rate
> 
> Most have a murder rate one fifth of ours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the US, state by state, there is no correlation between gun ownership and the murder rate
> For example, the District of Columbia has the lowest gun ownership rate(3.7%), but the highest gun murder rate of the 50 states and D.C.(16 per 100,000) Wyoming has the highest gun ownership rate(59.7%), but the 7th lowest gun murder rate at 0.9 per 100,000(behind Iowa, Idaho, and Utah who tie for 6th at 0.8 per 100,000). The gun ownership rates in those three states respectively are 42.9%(16th highest gun ownership rate), 55.3%(6th highest gun ownership rate), and 43.9%(14th highest gun ownership).
> 
> This is just to give you idea there is no statistical correlation between gun ownership rate and the gun murder rate on a state by state basis.
> 
> Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> You are simply wrong, there is no correlation between gun ownership rates and murder rate between Western nations. The US is a statistical anomaly because of our large black population.
> 
> If you actually look within the countries of the Western world, there is no correlation between the gun ownership rate and the gun murder rate.
> 
> For example, if we look at table six in this Harvard Study I will link below, Czech Republic has the highest gun murder rate at .92 per 100,000, but about 27 guns per 100,000 in the population, whereas Finland and Sweden have respective 411 guns person 100,00 in the population and 246.65, and have respective gun murder rates of .87 per 100,000 in Finland and .31 per 100,000 in Sweden.
> 
> 
> http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
Click to expand...



And it isn't really a race issue....it is a party affiliation issue.....those areas with the most gun murders....vote democrat........


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually there aren't.
> We have the same number of motor vehicle deaths as we do firearms. Drownings in no way even approaches the number of firearm deaths
> But the big difference is that drowning and car fatalities are ACCIDENTS
> Firearms deaths are ON PURPOSE
Click to expand...


Again.....

Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*


*Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*

* 
So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......

Gun murder 2013....8,454....*


almost half of all suicides in the United States are comitted with something other than a gun....take out guns and those other people will still kill themselves...the most popular method around the world...hanging......

and there were 8,454 gun murders in the U.S. in 2013.....and on average Americans used guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 2 million times.....

Even you should be able to tell which number is bigger.....


----------



## 2aguy

rdean said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bullshit.
> 
> Name the last mass shooting committed by a white Christian with a legal gun
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm guessing most of them?  Course, Timothy McVeigh holds the record and though he was both a Christian and a Republican, he didn't actually use a gun.
Click to expand...



mcveigh was not a christian or a repbulican.....


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 300 million guns in circulation
> 
> 30,000 deaths.
> 
> Wonder what percentage that is?
> 
> 
> 
> Good god...are you really going there?
> 
> What number would you be satisfied with?
> 50,000?
> 100,000?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We should go there since your intent on promoting falsehoods.  Your promoting the idea reducing the number of guns will reduce the murder rate, when there is no correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership rate. Whereas Blacks commit half of the murders, and this is a fact as shown by FBI data
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there is a correlation
> 
> No other civilized nation has the number of guns we have in open circulation
> No other nation has to endure our murder rate
> 
> Most have a murder rate one fifth of ours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And those other nations had less murder before they banned their guns.........and since Britain banned their guns their violent crime rate is now 2 times our violent crime rate......without guns......
> 
> Culture is the factor....inner city gangs and drug dealers cause our gun murder problem...get them under control and our gun murder rate is the same or lower than Europe...
> 
> And again.....in France....a country you anti-gun nuts love....which has extreme gun control....no gun stores, no access to guns for civilians......they had 3 terrorists....2 on a government terrorist watch list, one a convicted felon.....bought fully automatic rifles, hand grenades, pistols, a rocket propelled grenade and 30 round magazines....by crossing an international border into a country that also has extreme gun control laws...crossed back....and did it easily...and used those guns when they wanted to...
> 
> And that same week.....masked gunmen shot up a Marseilles neighborhood with fully automatic weapons hours before the French Prime Minister was going there to give a speech on successful crime prevention......
> 
> Criminals in Europe can get whatever guns they want, when they want or need them easily.......with gun laws that are extreme compared to our.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again you have to point to single case of gun crime to declare failure
> 
> I point to France having one fifth our homicide rate to declare success
Click to expand...



And their criminals use guns when they want to and they get them easily even with extreme gun control laws......the countries in Europe had low murder rates before their gun bans and they have low murder rates with weapons other than guns as well...it is a culture issue...they had a history of feudalism which we never had, and they also experienced World War 1 and 2.......it created a huge pacifism in the culture of Europeans.........

And if you add Murder by the STate in their murder numbers they have a much higher murder rate than we do....with just a long pause until the next one.......


----------



## 2aguy

WillHaftawaite said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 505 "accidental gun deaths"
> 31,500 "on purpose gun deaths"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
Click to expand...



Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*

*Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505

*


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now again, the truth and reality....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> guns, drowning and poisoning....
> 
> If you cared about people....you would  push to ban the following...
> 
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> Poisons...accidental deaths 2013...*.38,851*
> 
> Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...*29,001*
> 
> gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013..*.30,208*
> 
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013.*....*.505*
> 
> *
> So even suicides are outnumbered by cars, alcohol,, gravity and poisons.......
> 
> Gun murder 2013....8,454....*
> 
> 
> 2012...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> *
Click to expand...

 
I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case


Accidental car deaths = 35,000

Accidental gun deaths = 500
On purpose gun deaths= 34,500


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Accidental deaths?
> Are you serious?
> 
> With guns we are dealing with "On purpose deaths"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case
> 
> 
> Accidental car deaths = 35,000
> 
> Accidental gun deaths = 500
> On purpose gun deaths= 34,500
Click to expand...



Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....

So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....

And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....

you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just like drownings are on purpose, overdoses are on purpose, vehicular deaths are on purpose, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case
> 
> 
> Accidental car deaths = 35,000
> 
> Accidental gun deaths = 500
> On purpose gun deaths= 34,500
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
Click to expand...

 
Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"

I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"

Why would you equate those two things?


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate
> 
> Gun deaths, for the most part, are not "accidents". Someone intentionally picks up the weapon, aims it at another person and decides to pull the trigger to kill another person
> 
> Yet, when we try to limit that activity....the gun nuts go batshit crazy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case
> 
> 
> Accidental car deaths = 35,000
> 
> Accidental gun deaths = 500
> On purpose gun deaths= 34,500
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
Click to expand...



I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....

You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......


----------



## 2aguy

Now...your stupid point is that guns cause high suicide rates in this country...and that is a stupid point because the United States has more gun ownership than other countries...but we only rank 30 on the list for suicide rates........

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Guns are not the issue.....mental health is.......


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> "And we pass laws to reduce the numbers of accidental drownings, we have thousands of motor vehicle laws to reduce vehicular deaths....all which have resulted in a lower "accidental" death rate"
> 
> and yet, with all those laws on the books, there are more drownings, more vehicular deaths, than there are with firearms.
> You have to pass a test to get a drivers license, and it's higher rate is higher than firearms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case
> 
> 
> Accidental car deaths = 35,000
> 
> Accidental gun deaths = 500
> On purpose gun deaths= 34,500
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
Click to expand...

 
8454 murders is "really, really low"?

Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case
> 
> 
> Accidental car deaths = 35,000
> 
> Accidental gun deaths = 500
> On purpose gun deaths= 34,500
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
Click to expand...



We have over 320 million people.....8,454 gun murders is a low number.....and if you stopped the crime by gangs and drug dealers in our cities.....then our numbers would be better than Europe...

And of course you forgot to include state controlled murder in the equation......if you add in the number of people in Europe murdered by their government.....our 8,454 is nothing compared to that.....and that happened because the people were disarmed and just let the police and military have the guns........which is exactly what you fools want.....


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cars,  Accidental deaths 2013......*35,369*
> 
> *Accidental gun deaths 2013......505
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf
> 
> Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...
> 
> 2010...606
> 2011...591
> 2012...548
> 2013...505
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case
> 
> 
> Accidental car deaths = 35,000
> 
> Accidental gun deaths = 500
> On purpose gun deaths= 34,500
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
Click to expand...



We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....

We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....

These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates


----------



## M14 Shooter

RW will only lie to you.


----------



## Derideo_Te

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you keep posting those stats. They don't help your case
> 
> 
> Accidental car deaths = 35,000
> 
> Accidental gun deaths = 500
> On purpose gun deaths= 34,500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
Click to expand...


Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?

Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?


----------



## rightwinger

Derideo_Te said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
Click to expand...

EU with the same population has one third of the murders

Of course, they don't have 300 million guns handy


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EU with the same population has one third of the murders
> 
> Of course, they don't have 300 million guns handy
Click to expand...



They have a history of national pacifism brought on by the devastation of World War 1 and 2.....their criminals...get guns easily when they want them....and Britian has 2 times the violent crime that the United States has.....their victims are just told by their government to submit quietly.....and to not use any method of defense that might harm their attacker....and I am not making that up......


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## 2aguy

Derideo_Te said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again...when people without access to guns kill themselves at 2 times the rate that we do..with rope, and poison and jumping in front of trains....sucides don't count.....
> 
> So you are left with the criminal use of a gun.....taking a gun and breaking the law, and even then it is only 8,454 gun murders a year.....in isolated, small, multi block areas of major cities......while the rest of the country is safe.....and even with that....gun murders are going down, not up.....
> 
> And again with over 320 million people, and over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them, and over 11.1 million people carrying guns for protection....
> 
> you have a grand total of 505 accidental deaths......and that number is going down as more and more people own and carry guns......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
Click to expand...


I am simply pointing out that those countries mentioned...all have strict gun control laws....and according to you guys....merely having gun control laws and keeping civilians from having guns lowers the gun murder rate...and that isn't true......culture...not guns...are the issue....


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EU with the same population has one third of the murders
> 
> Of course, they don't have 300 million guns handy
Click to expand...



This is how easy a criminals get guns in Europe, Canada and Puerto Rico.....

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles

aanother story on ease terrorists get guns....

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard but terrorists have little trouble - The Washington Post

Canada gangs get guns easily

Guns too easy for Ottawa gangs to get police say - Ottawa - CBC News

Puerto Rico...stricter gun control...highest gun murder rate..

VICE News Report Guns in Puerto Rico - The Truth About Guns


----------



## 2aguy

And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......



> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”



So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....


----------



## 2aguy

And this is another article on how easily criminals in Europe can get weapons...even with their extreme gun control laws...

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard but terrorists have little trouble - The Washington Post





> In Paris and Copenhagen, the attacks were carried out by former small-time criminals turned violent extremists who obtained military-grade illicit weapons with apparent ease.




Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


*But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.*

“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

European leaders have made tighter controls on weapons trafficking a priority in recent weeks, following the killing of 17 people in Paris by three attackers. The shootings in Copenhagen this past weekend, which left two people dead, raised the ominous prospect of copycat attacks across Europe.


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## Derideo_Te

2aguy said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why concentrate on "accidental" gun deaths when the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are "on purpose"
> 
> I "accidentally" died in a car crash when my car skidded off the road
> Someone intentionally picked up a gun, pointed it at me and pulled the trigger "on purpose"
> 
> Why would you equate those two things?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am simply pointing out that those countries mentioned...all have strict gun control laws....and according to you guys....merely having gun control laws and keeping civilians from having guns lowers the gun murder rate...and that isn't true......culture...not guns...are the issue....
Click to expand...


Comparing apples to oranges is meaningless.

I notice you aren't even trying to compare the USA to the EU. Why not given that they are so similar in so many aspects?


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EU with the same population has one third of the murders
> 
> Of course, they don't have 300 million guns handy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They have a history of national pacifism brought on by the devastation of World War 1 and 2.....their criminals...get guns easily when they want them....and Britian has 2 times the violent crime that the United States has.....their victims are just told by their government to submit quietly.....and to not use any method of defense that might harm their attacker....and I am not making that up......
Click to expand...

Total fantasy....but quite amusing

They are far from pacifists and have fought devastating wars. Unlike our gun nuts, they know the real effects of war....but they are not jumping at alleged enemies like our gun community is


----------



## Derideo_Te

2aguy said:


> And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....
Click to expand...


And yet criminals in the EU nation don't need AK47's to commit crimes. Why is that?


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....
Click to expand...

They can get them?  but for some reason they don't

Their gun crimes are infantessimal when compared to ours


----------



## 2aguy

Derideo_Te said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stated....gun murder for 2013 was 8,454...those were on purpose and breaking the law to do it....it was a criminal act.....
> 
> You want to add in suicide because if you don't your number is really, really low.....the problem you have is that suicide is an action by an individual not caused by a gun...that is why in countries without guns, they can still commit suicide at twice our rate and even with our gun ownership we aren't even in the top 10 for suicide.....so adding suicide into the count is lying.....which you gun grabbers have to do since the truth and reality make you wrong on gun issues......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am simply pointing out that those countries mentioned...all have strict gun control laws....and according to you guys....merely having gun control laws and keeping civilians from having guns lowers the gun murder rate...and that isn't true......culture...not guns...are the issue....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comparing apples to oranges is meaningless.
> 
> I notice you aren't even trying to compare the USA to the EU. Why not given that they are so similar in so many aspects?
Click to expand...



they aren't similar in important ways...particularly crime.....we have a higher crime rate overall...due to the gangs in our inner cities.....and our gangs are far more violent...


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can get them?  but for some reason they don't
> 
> Their gun crimes are infantessimal when compared to ours
Click to expand...



The main point being they can get all the guns they want or need, when they want or need them....their culture keeps them from using them.....as I noted the cultural pacifism helps keep that down....they came through fuedalism, World War 1 and World War 2.....traumatic events for their cultures....


----------



## 2aguy

Derideo_Te said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet criminals in the EU nation don't need AK47's to commit crimes. Why is that?
Click to expand...



Culture differences.....for example when the gun was introduced in Japan, the warrior class rejected them in favor of the sword....they were even more violent then than we were, since they were still in their fuedal period...but they clung to their shintoism and their swords...over guns.....


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can get them?  but for some reason they don't
> 
> Their gun crimes are infantessimal when compared to ours
Click to expand...



But British violent crime is twice ours......I haven't looked up the violent crime levels in other countries...but most of those countries were peaceful and less violent long before our country had so many guns.....guns are not the factor...culture is....


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## 2aguy

And with waves of muslim immigrants, with an entirely different culture from the EU natives....they're bringing violence to formerly peaceful countries in Europe.....


----------



## 2aguy

For example...this look at crime in France...does anyone in the U.S. think our criminals would narrow their predation to just pickpocketing like they do in France......

France 2014 Crime and Safety Report Paris

Crime in Paris is similar to that in most large cities. Pickpockets are by far the most significant problem. In addition to purses and wallets, smart phones, and small electronic devices are particular targets. In Paris, pickpockets can be any gender, race, or age but are commonly children under the age of 16 because they are difficult to prosecute. 

Pickpockets are very active on the rail link (RER B) from Charles de Gaulle Airport to the city center. In addition, passengers on the Metro line 1, which traverses the city center from east to west and services many major tourist sites, are often targeted. Thieves often time their pickpocket attempts to coincide with the closing of the automatic doors on the Metro, leaving the victim on the departing train. Many thefts also occur at major department stores (e.g., Galeries Lafayette, Printemps, and Le Bon Marché), where tourists may leave wallets, passports, and credit cards on cashier counters during transactions. Popular tourist sites are also popular with thieves, who favor congested areas to mask their activities. 

The crowded elevators at the Eiffel Tower, escalators at museums, and the area surrounding the Sacre Coeur Basilica in Montmartre are all favored by pickpockets and snatch-and-run thieves. There have also been some instances of tourists being robbed and assaulted near less populated Metro stations. Other areas in Paris where extra security precautions are warranted after dark are Les Halles and the Pigalle area. 

*Violent crime is relatively uncommon in the city center.*

It is their criminal culture that is non violent...but when they decide to be violent...they get guns easily.......


----------



## Derideo_Te

2aguy said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8454 murders is "really, really low"?
> 
> Most nations would be in shock if they had that many murders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am simply pointing out that those countries mentioned...all have strict gun control laws....and according to you guys....merely having gun control laws and keeping civilians from having guns lowers the gun murder rate...and that isn't true......culture...not guns...are the issue....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comparing apples to oranges is meaningless.
> 
> I notice you aren't even trying to compare the USA to the EU. Why not given that they are so similar in so many aspects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they aren't similar in important ways...particularly crime.....we have a higher crime rate overall...due to the gangs in our inner cities.....and our gangs are far more violent...
Click to expand...


Because they more guns, duh! 

If it wasn't for gun fetishists obstructing all forms of reasonable controls there would be fewer guns.

So it is you gun fetishists who have to assume your share of the blame for making America into a violent society with a high crime rate. 

But none of you have the honesty and integrity to admit as much. 

In essence you lack the manhood which is why you have to purchase such large substitutes and walk around the streets carrying them.


----------



## 2aguy

Derideo_Te said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have the highest murder rate either....other countries with strict gun control do.....
> 
> We aren't even in the top 10......with all of our guns....
> 
> These 10 Countries Have The World s Highest Murder Rates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am simply pointing out that those countries mentioned...all have strict gun control laws....and according to you guys....merely having gun control laws and keeping civilians from having guns lowers the gun murder rate...and that isn't true......culture...not guns...are the issue....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comparing apples to oranges is meaningless.
> 
> I notice you aren't even trying to compare the USA to the EU. Why not given that they are so similar in so many aspects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they aren't similar in important ways...particularly crime.....we have a higher crime rate overall...due to the gangs in our inner cities.....and our gangs are far more violent...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they more guns, duh!
> 
> If it wasn't for gun fetishists obstructing all forms of reasonable controls there would be fewer guns.
> 
> So it is you gun fetishists who have to assume your share of the blame for making America into a violent society with a high crime rate.
> 
> But none of you have the honesty and integrity to admit as much.
> 
> In essence you lack the manhood which is why you have to purchase such large substitutes and walk around the streets carrying them.
Click to expand...



Moron....there are countries in Europe with more guns than France that have lower crime rates than France...guns aren't the problem.....


----------



## 2aguy

And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....

 Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person

Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.

Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.

Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.

All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.


----------



## Derideo_Te

2aguy said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you compare the USA to the 3rd world nations when it comes to murder rates?
> 
> Why not compare it to the EU since that is about the same size as the USA in population?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am simply pointing out that those countries mentioned...all have strict gun control laws....and according to you guys....merely having gun control laws and keeping civilians from having guns lowers the gun murder rate...and that isn't true......culture...not guns...are the issue....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comparing apples to oranges is meaningless.
> 
> I notice you aren't even trying to compare the USA to the EU. Why not given that they are so similar in so many aspects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they aren't similar in important ways...particularly crime.....we have a higher crime rate overall...due to the gangs in our inner cities.....and our gangs are far more violent...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they more guns, duh!
> 
> If it wasn't for gun fetishists obstructing all forms of reasonable controls there would be fewer guns.
> 
> So it is you gun fetishists who have to assume your share of the blame for making America into a violent society with a high crime rate.
> 
> But none of you have the honesty and integrity to admit as much.
> 
> In essence you lack the manhood which is why you have to purchase such large substitutes and walk around the streets carrying them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron....there are countries in Europe with more guns than France that have lower crime rates than France...guns aren't the problem.....
Click to expand...


That is right!

Gun fetishists like you are the problem.


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can get them?  but for some reason they don't
> 
> Their gun crimes are infantessimal when compared to ours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The main point being they can get all the guns they want or need, when they want or need them....their culture keeps them from using them.....as I noted the cultural pacifism helps keep that down....they came through fuedalism, World War 1 and World War 2.....traumatic events for their cultures....
Click to expand...


Sounds like bullshit doesn't it?

Here their criminals have free access to all the high powered weaponry, yet don't use it
Meanwhile, our criminals only have access to 300 million measly guns


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how easy it is to get fully automatic weapons in an EU country when you want one....it isn't that hard...and even with their extreme gun control.....it only took this police rookie 2 hours to get a fully automatic AK-47......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Europe struggles to crack down on illegal weapons, some police recruits face a new training exercise: Go buy a Kalashnikov rifle. Donald says that in “a city in Europe,” which he would not name, “very young officers with no training or experience” were recently told to go find an assault weapon on the streets from an illegal arms dealer. “One came back two hours later with an AK-47,” Donald says. “He bought it for €1,000.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So again....European criminals can get guns easily when they want or need them and none of the extreme gun laws in France, Belgium, Denmark or Sweden can stop them......like any gun control...the best way to control guns is to arrest and lock up the criminals who use them to hurt people.....since nothing else stops them....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can get them?  but for some reason they don't
> 
> Their gun crimes are infantessimal when compared to ours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The main point being they can get all the guns they want or need, when they want or need them....their culture keeps them from using them.....as I noted the cultural pacifism helps keep that down....they came through fuedalism, World War 1 and World War 2.....traumatic events for their cultures....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like bullshit doesn't it?
> 
> Here their criminals have free access to all the high powered weaponry, yet don't use it
> Meanwhile, our criminals only have access to 300 million measly guns
Click to expand...


That shows culture, not guns are the problem...our gangs are extremely violent...as are the drug gangs in Mexico.....and Mexico has stricter gun laws than we do....


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....
> 
> Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person
> 
> Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.
> 
> Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.
> 
> Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.
> 
> All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
> It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.



You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....
> 
> Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person
> 
> Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.
> 
> Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.
> 
> Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.
> 
> All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
> It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
Click to expand...



I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...

And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....


----------



## 2aguy

And of course....gun crime is going up in Europe.....from Britain...

1 400 shots fired and 29 dead Shocking scale of London gun crime revealed - Crime - News - London Evening Standard

They are taking their time...but their criminals are starting to use guns more and more.....and they get them easily.....


----------



## rightwinger

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....
> 
> Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person
> 
> Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.
> 
> Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.
> 
> Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.
> 
> All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
> It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
Click to expand...

Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.


----------



## Derideo_Te

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....
> 
> Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person
> 
> Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.
> 
> Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.
> 
> Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.
> 
> All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
> It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
Click to expand...


That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....
> 
> Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person
> 
> Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.
> 
> Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.
> 
> Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.
> 
> All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
> It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
Click to expand...



Sorry...you nutters say the mere presence of guns leads to gun violence....that's not the case......our society, our inner city criminal culture is far more violent than the criminal culture in Europe...and that is changing.....


----------



## 2aguy

Hmmmm...the Frech want to send the military in to Marseilles....to deal with escalating gun violence......when was this written.....?

French want army to combat gun crime in Marseille - France - RFI




> Police say most of the murders in Marseille are linked to turf wars between multiple rival gangs battling for control of the drugs trade in the city's poorest neighbourhoods.
> 
> The violence, they say, is aggravated by the easy availability of high-calibre weapons, with the street price of a Kalashnikov automatic rifle, the murder instrument of choice, reported to be as little as 500 euros.



You anti-gun nuts should be happy....in Europe...their criminals are using fully automatic weapons......and oh yeah....those are illegal in France...as are almost all guns...but as the article says...they are the weapon of choice for French criminals....


----------



## 2aguy

Hmmm...I guess the violent crime rate in France isn't as low as we were led to believe...and it is getting worse...

France - Rising crime piles pressure on French government - France 24


----------



## turtledude

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


more than half the gunshot murders in the USA are committed by blacks.  almost always black males.  6% of the population commits more than HALF the murders.  and guess what is the voting patterns of black males?  95% for Obama.  

conclusion-the group most likely to commit murders with firearms is also the group most likely to have voted for OBAMA


----------



## turtledude

Luddly Neddite said:


> I agree.
> 
> Texasss beats up on little kids for daring to have fun at a pool party and the racist cockroaches who ganged up on those kids are probably planning a little 2nd amendment payback for having been caught in the mess of their own making.



well hello Luddly-haven't seen you since you got banned for sock puppetry on the other forum you polluted with your anti gun drivel.  Its funny but fruitcakes like you whine about cops and yet want a society where the only people who can legally own guns are cops


----------



## turtledude

WillHaftawaite said:


> Nope, people with guns dont' kill people.
> I've had guns since I was 12, and never killed anyone.
> 
> The majority of my family, and most of my ancestors, have owned guns, and not one of them have killed anyone, except in a time of war.
> 
> 300+ million guns in the country, and the large majority of them have never killed anyone.
> 
> 150+ million gun owners, ( yes, it's a guess. I've read the number is between 100 million and 200 million), and the majority have never killed anyone.
> 
> But, keep giving up bumper sticker logic.



If the bed wetting gun haters really believed gun owners were as bad and dangerous as they said, they wouldn't spend so much time insulting gun owners since they would be terrified that the gun owners would go postal.  Since they know gun owners are not unhinged killers, they feel safe to insult us


----------



## turtledude

Derideo_Te said:


> From the OP link...
> 
> *Educational attainment rates also tended to be lower in states with the most gun violence. *​
> Says volumes, doesn't it?



yet legal gun owners tend to be better educated and wealthier than non legal gun owners.  if you are a serious shooter (as I am) that is expensive.  Its a sport for those who are well to do


----------



## turtledude

rightwinger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
Click to expand...

 Lots of democrat run areas-lots of criminals.  democrats pander to criminals and criminals vote for Democrats.  want safer cities-get rid of Democrat leadership


----------



## turtledude

jillian said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
Click to expand...


Like Lanza who killed his mother to get her registered guns
or Klebold and Harris who had someone engage in a felony straw purchase?
or the killer at VT-oh wait he was Asian
or the DC sniper-nope he was black

we don't get upset with you morons because know crime control has nothing to do with your rants


----------



## sealybobo

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.


these Lebanese terrorist sympathizers went in and bought thousands of rounds of ammo without question the next week same thing and every week after that the only thing that got them caught was the owner of the gun store saw them texting in Arabic so he called the FBI. even then nothing was done and the owner of the gun store continue to sell to the Lebanese people. it turned out they were shipping the weapons to Lebanon terrorists. amazing you can buy thousands of rounds of ammo without question


----------



## sealybobo

turtledude said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of democrat run areas-lots of criminals.  democrats pander to criminals and criminals vote for Democrats.  want safer cities-get rid of Democrat leadership
Click to expand...

are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?


----------



## turtledude

2aguy said:


> Culture differences.....for example when the gun was introduced in Japan, the warrior class rejected them in favor of the sword....they were even more violent then than we were, since they were still in their fuedal period...but they clung to their shintoism and their swords...over guns.....



Samurai also had the habit of hacking commoners to death for the hell of it and if you owned a sword they killed you as fast as they could

do you know how the Okinawan martial arts weapons were derived? because the Japanese overlords banned swords and spears and pikes and battle axes

the tonfa is a rice grinder, the Sai a hoe for planting rice, the Kama was the sickle for harvesting rice, the BO the staff farmers used to carry pails and the Nunchaku was a flail for separating rice from the hulls.  farm tools turned into somewhat effective weapons


----------



## Hugo Furst

sealybobo said:


> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of democrat run areas-lots of criminals.  democrats pander to criminals and criminals vote for Democrats.  want safer cities-get rid of Democrat leadership
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
Click to expand...


Really?

"Funding for state police will be cut by $23.3 million under the executive order. About $16 million of that money would be pulled from a disaster assistance program that the administration says has seen fewer claims than anticipated.

Corrections spending will be cut by $17.8 million, with reduced funding for an electronic monitoring center and several individual prisons. Funding for the Department of Community Health will be reduced by $16.55 million, including reduced graduate medical education payments to Michigan hospitals."

About $8 million for the fiscal year from police .

Not good news, but hardly going to cause the increase of crime you're talking about.

And, if the shortfall is taken care of, the money will be back in the next budget.


----------



## turtledude

sealybobo said:


> [
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?




Detroit is the epitome of a Democrat run cesspool with all sorts of violent crimes


----------



## sealybobo

WillHaftawaite said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of democrat run areas-lots of criminals.  democrats pander to criminals and criminals vote for Democrats.  want safer cities-get rid of Democrat leadership
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> "Funding for state police will be cut by $23.3 million under the executive order. About $16 million of that money would be pulled from a disaster assistance program that the administration says has seen fewer claims than anticipated.
> 
> Corrections spending will be cut by $17.8 million, with reduced funding for an electronic monitoring center and several individual prisons. Funding for the Department of Community Health will be reduced by $16.55 million, including reduced graduate medical education payments to Michigan hospitals."
> 
> About $8 million for the fiscal year from police .
> 
> Not good news, but hardly going to cause the increase of crime you're talking about.
> 
> And, if the shortfall is taken care of, the money will be back in the next budget.
Click to expand...

basically you're saying to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs


----------



## Hugo Furst

To remove a shortfall, you have to cut a few extras.

And the police dept wasn't the only area seeing cuts.


----------



## sealybobo

turtledude said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is the epitome of a Democrat run cesspool with all sorts of violent crimes
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I think Detroit is Michigan's embarrassment and Michigan's fault and let's not kid ourselves Michigan is run by white people. American ghettos are America's embarrassment around the world. we say we're great and other countries point to our ghettos and say your not so great. but the Conservatives love the cheap labor


----------



## sealybobo

in tru free market unregulated capitalism you need lots and lots of poor people. it keeps wages down


----------



## sealybobo

WillHaftawaite said:


> To remove a shortfall, you have to cut a few extras.
> 
> And the police dept wasn't the only area seeing cuts.


great excuse to go after police unions and teacher unions basically government unions. almost seems like they did it on purpose


----------



## Hugo Furst

Ghettos are American?


----------



## M14 Shooter

sealybobo said:


> these Lebanese terrorist sympathizers went in and bought thousands of rounds of ammo without question the next week same thing and every week after that the only thing that got them caught was the owner of the gun store saw them texting in Arabic so he called the FBI. even then nothing was done and the owner of the gun store continue to sell to the Lebanese people. it turned out they were shipping the weapons to Lebanon terrorists. amazing you can buy thousands of rounds of ammo without question


Not just that...  you can buy thousands of rounds on line and have UPS deliver it.  No questions.
Freedom is a beautiful thing.


----------



## M14 Shooter

sealybobo said:


> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit....


Becaise the population is falling like a rock, and the city government is run by imbeciles.


> maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?


Detroit's chief of police believes that armed law-abiding citizens is a good thing.
Detroit police chief James Craig says more citizens should be armed Fox News
Detroit police chief says armed citizens are curbing crime - Washington Times
Detroit Police Chief Armed Citizens Fighting Off Crime


----------



## turtledude

M14 Shooter said:


> Detroit's chief of police believes that armed law-abiding citizens is a good thing.
> Detroit police chief James Craig says more citizens should be armed Fox News
> Detroit police chief says armed citizens are curbing crime - Washington Times
> Detroit Police Chief Armed Citizens Fighting Off Crime


IIRC Chief Craig was the Cincinnati Police Chief.  I thought he was doing a pretty good job here.  There was controversy over him not taking some exam for LEOs but that never bothered me much.


----------



## turtledude

sealybobo said:


> I don't think so. I think Detroit is Michigan's embarrassment and Michigan's fault and let's not kid ourselves Michigan is run by white people. American ghettos are America's embarrassment around the world. we say we're great and other countries point to our ghettos and say your not so great. but the Conservatives love the cheap labor


are you saying blacks are not competent enough to be incompetent when it comes to running a city?  the soft racism of low expectations? its the white "adults" who are to blame, not the black "children"?


----------



## jillian

turtledude said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like Lanza who killed his mother to get her registered guns
> or Klebold and Harris who had someone engage in a felony straw purchase?
> or the killer at VT-oh wait he was Asian
> or the DC sniper-nope he was black
> 
> we don't get upset with you morons because know crime control has nothing to do with your rants
Click to expand...


all legal guns idiot. but we understand that the rabid wacky rightwingnut NRA brainwashed freaks don't have a clue.

and as was pointed out, the most gun violence is in red states, along with poverty, low education and single white mothers on welfare.


----------



## rightwinger

Derideo_Te said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....
> 
> Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person
> 
> Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.
> 
> Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.
> 
> Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.
> 
> All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
> It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
Click to expand...

Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license 
Seems like a good plan


----------



## rightwinger

turtledude said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of democrat run areas-lots of criminals.  democrats pander to criminals and criminals vote for Democrats.  want safer cities-get rid of Democrat leadership
Click to expand...

Stop the unrestricted influx of guns into cities


----------



## 2aguy

sealybobo said:


> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is the epitome of a Democrat run cesspool with all sorts of violent crimes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think so. I think Detroit is Michigan's embarrassment and Michigan's fault and let's not kid ourselves Michigan is run by white people. American ghettos are America's embarrassment around the world. we say we're great and other countries point to our ghettos and say your not so great. but the Conservatives love the cheap labor
Click to expand...



No....the world points out to our poor and say..."Your poor have T.V.s....and cars....and air conditioning...our poor live in mud huts and use dung for heat....."


----------



## 2aguy

sealybobo said:


> in tru free market unregulated capitalism you need lots and lots of poor people. it keeps wages down




Moron.....that isn't a part of capitialism...that is marxist propaganda as they congratulate themselves as they fill the mass graves with class enemies.......


----------



## sealybobo

2aguy said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is the epitome of a Democrat run cesspool with all sorts of violent crimes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think so. I think Detroit is Michigan's embarrassment and Michigan's fault and let's not kid ourselves Michigan is run by white people. American ghettos are America's embarrassment around the world. we say we're great and other countries point to our ghettos and say your not so great. but the Conservatives love the cheap labor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No....the world points out to our poor and say..."Your poor have T.V.s....and cars....and air conditioning...our poor live in mud huts and use dung for heat....."
Click to expand...

you like to compare us to the world's worst countries how about Germany France Australia Switzerland? Those countries look at us and laugh


----------



## 2aguy

rightwinger said:


> Derideo_Te said:
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> rightwinger said:
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> 2aguy said:
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> rightwinger said:
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> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as tired as it gets...Switzerland has the most guns in Europe...and some of the lowest violence rates....guns are not the issue....the culture is....most of Europe is homogeneous...that is changing and the violence levels are changing as well....
> 
> Safest Place On Earth Is Country With Most Guns Per Person
> 
> Switzerland is Europe's gun capital. It has more firepower per person than any other country in the world yet it is said to be one of the safest places on Earth.
> 
> Despite the prevalence of lethal hardware, the country has virtually no violent crime, there are only minimal controls at public buildings, and politicians rarely have police protection, although yesterday's events are bound to bring about a review of that situation.
> 
> Year after year, Switzerland has one of the world's lowest murder rates while sending machine guns to every member of their citizen army.
> 
> All males between 20 and 42 are required to keep rifles and pistols at home for the purposes of national defence and they are not kept in safes or with trigger locks. They are kept at the ready.
> It was the Swiss passion for guns matched by their determination to keep their liberty that kept the Nazi war machine at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license
> Seems like a good plan
Click to expand...



Yeah...the criminals in Europe don't bother with that crap....they just by their guns more quickly in Belgian train stations......and shoot up cartoonists or the neighborhoods in Marseilles.......with illegal fully automatic weapons.....


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## M14 Shooter

jillian said:


> all legal guns idiot....


One was stolen.
One was obtained via straw purchase
Thus _illegal_.

You're probably too high from sniffing your most popular shoeshine polish to understand that not only are you wrong, but also your supremely ironic use of the term "idiot"


> and as was pointed out, the most gun violence is in red states, along with poverty, low education and single white mothers on welfare.


Says the angry white girl that dropped out of a backwater Mississippi middle school because she was pregnant.


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## 2aguy

sealybobo said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is the epitome of a Democrat run cesspool with all sorts of violent crimes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think so. I think Detroit is Michigan's embarrassment and Michigan's fault and let's not kid ourselves Michigan is run by white people. American ghettos are America's embarrassment around the world. we say we're great and other countries point to our ghettos and say your not so great. but the Conservatives love the cheap labor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No....the world points out to our poor and say..."Your poor have T.V.s....and cars....and air conditioning...our poor live in mud huts and use dung for heat....."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you like to compare us to the world's worst countries how about Germany France Australia Switzerland? Those countries look at us and laugh
Click to expand...



Yeah...they laugh at us as we provide their security with our Military as they spend as much as they want on their social programs....now that obama is wrecking the U.S. and we will no longer be able to afford to protect the pampered socialist nations of Europe...they will actually have to build their own militaries....or learn to speak Russian.....

Let's see how wonderful these European countries are when they actually have to support a viable military, and once all the muslim immigrants start declaring entire countries "no go' zones.....


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## Hugo Furst

Do that once or twice a year.


jillian said:


> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like Lanza who killed his mother to get her registered guns
> or Klebold and Harris who had someone engage in a felony straw purchase?
> or the killer at VT-oh wait he was Asian
> or the DC sniper-nope he was black
> 
> we don't get upset with you morons because know crime control has nothing to do with your rants
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> all legal guns idiot. but we understand that the rabid wacky rightwingnut NRA brainwashed freaks don't have a clue.
> 
> and as was pointed out, the most gun violence is in red states, along with poverty, low education and single white mothers on welfare.
Click to expand...


Blue cities in red states, as was also shown.


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## sealybobo

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license
> Seems like a good plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...the criminals in Europe don't bother with that crap....they just by their guns more quickly in Belgian train stations......and shoot up cartoonists or the neighborhoods in Marseilles.......with illegal fully automatic weapons.....
Click to expand...

shipped to them from some gun shows in the United States lol


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## sealybobo

2aguy said:


> sealybobo said:
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> 
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> 2aguy said:
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> 
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> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is the epitome of a Democrat run cesspool with all sorts of violent crimes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think so. I think Detroit is Michigan's embarrassment and Michigan's fault and let's not kid ourselves Michigan is run by white people. American ghettos are America's embarrassment around the world. we say we're great and other countries point to our ghettos and say your not so great. but the Conservatives love the cheap labor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No....the world points out to our poor and say..."Your poor have T.V.s....and cars....and air conditioning...our poor live in mud huts and use dung for heat....."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you like to compare us to the world's worst countries how about Germany France Australia Switzerland? Those countries look at us and laugh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...they laugh at us as we provide their security with our Military as they spend as much as they want on their social programs....now that obama is wrecking the U.S. and we will no longer be able to afford to protect the pampered socialist nations of Europe...they will actually have to build their own militaries....or learn to speak Russian.....
> 
> Let's see how wonderful these European countries are when they actually have to support a viable military, and once all the muslim immigrants start declaring entire countries "no go' zones.....
Click to expand...

boy I really can't argue with you there


----------



## 2aguy

sealybobo said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> 
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license
> Seems like a good plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...the criminals in Europe don't bother with that crap....they just by their guns more quickly in Belgian train stations......and shoot up cartoonists or the neighborhoods in Marseilles.......with illegal fully automatic weapons.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> shipped to them from some gun shows in the United States lol
Click to expand...



No....the fully automatic weapons come from Europe and are now coming from Africa............they don't need our guns...they can get fully automatic weapons easily in their own countries...........


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## Hugo Furst

sealybobo said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> 
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license
> Seems like a good plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...the criminals in Europe don't bother with that crap....they just by their guns more quickly in Belgian train stations......and shoot up cartoonists or the neighborhoods in Marseilles.......with illegal fully automatic weapons.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> shipped to them from some gun shows in the United States lol
Click to expand...


fully automatics at a gun show?

You really are uninformed, aren't you?


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## gipper

sealybobo said:


> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 30 Highest Murder Rate Cities in the U.S. 2015 - NeighborhoodScout
> 
> *Rank* *City*
> 30 Baton Rouge, LA
> 29 Youngstown, OH
> 28 San Bernardino, CA
> 27 Oakland, CA
> 26 Barberton, OH
> 25 Poughkeepsie, NY
> 24 Cincinnati, OH
> 23 Petersburg, VA
> 22 Wilmington, DE
> 21 York, PA
> 20 East Palo Alto, CA
> 19 Jackson, MS
> 18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
> 17 Birmingham, AL
> 16 East Point, GA
> 15 East Chicago, IN
> 14 Compton, CA
> 13 Baltimore, MD
> 12 St. Louis, MO
> 11 Harvey, IL
> 10 Newark, NJ
> 9 New Orleans, LA
> 8 Trenton, NJ
> 7 Detroit, MI
> 6 Flint, MI
> 5 Saginaw, MI
> 4 Chester, PA
> 3 Gary, IN
> 2 Camden, NJ
> 1 East St. Louis, IL
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of guns.....lot of dead people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of democrat run areas-lots of criminals.  democrats pander to criminals and criminals vote for Democrats.  want safer cities-get rid of Democrat leadership
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and  Theso crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
Click to expand...

No need to arm them, they already are armed.  They have to be armed, to survive in a city overwhelmed by crime.

Detroit has been politically controlled by the D party for over 50 years and most of the that time, by black Ds.  They bear much of the responsibility for the cesspool it is today.


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## gipper

sealybobo said:


> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> are you kidding? Rick Snyder government governor of Michigan Republican has cut police funding in Detroit and so crime has gone up because of it. maybe we should arm all of the black people in Detroit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detroit is the epitome of a Democrat run cesspool with all sorts of violent crimes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think so. I think Detroit is Michigan's embarrassment and Michigan's fault and let's not kid ourselves Michigan is run by white people. American ghettos are America's embarrassment around the world. we say we're great and other countries point to our ghettos and say your not so great. but the Conservatives love the cheap labor
Click to expand...

Detroit is an embarrassment to the entire nation, but neither political party has done much to fix it.  This applies to nearly all our big cities with high black populations.

And cheap labor is not just a con thing.  It is something both corrupt party's desire.


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## Derideo_Te

2aguy said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You still trying that Switzerland myth even though you have been repeatedly corrected
> Switzerland has a whole lot of guns. But like Barney Fife, they need to go to the government for bullets and account for all of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license
> Seems like a good plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...the criminals in Europe don't bother with that crap....they just by their guns more quickly in Belgian train stations......and shoot up cartoonists or the neighborhoods in Marseilles.......with illegal fully automatic weapons.....
Click to expand...


You know your position is pathetically weak when all you have are anecdotes.


----------



## 2aguy

Derideo_Te said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you are that stupid....you really believe if a criminal wanted bullets for his select fire, fully automatic weapon or government issued pistol...they couldn't get them.....considering three terrorists in France, 2 on a government terrorist watch list and on a convicted criminal easily got not only bullets, but fully automatic rifles, grenades, pistols and a rocket propelled grenade...easily....crossing an international border into Belgium to do it...
> 
> And you think gettin bullets would be hard in a country full of military hardware....you really are dumb....
> 
> 
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license
> Seems like a good plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...the criminals in Europe don't bother with that crap....they just by their guns more quickly in Belgian train stations......and shoot up cartoonists or the neighborhoods in Marseilles.......with illegal fully automatic weapons.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know your position is pathetically weak when all you have are anecdotes.
Click to expand...



Not anectdotes...from actual European police sources...

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles

Despite the Paris attacks, *it seems the weapons are still flowing freely through Europe. Brian Donald, chief of staff for Europol,* which coordinates cross-border actions among police forces in the E.U.’s 28 countries, says there have been two “large seizures” of assault weapons in Europe during the past two weeks, but would not give details about where they were, since the investigations were still ongoing. In all, he says police had seized “several vanloads of 30 or 40 weapons at a time,” during the past few weeks, including “AK-47s, Scorpions, handguns and semiautomatic rifles.”

another story on ease terrorists get guns....

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard but terrorists have little trouble - The Washington Post

Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife. 

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


*But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash. *


“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”


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## Derideo_Te

2aguy said:


> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derideo_Te said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again you are exchanging fantasy for reality. Switzerland has very strict gun rules .......are you willing to adopt the Swiss gun rules you admire so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That works for me! Make everyone do military service in order to have a firearm and hold them 100% accountable for their weapons at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the government for your bullets, shoot at ranges, get a license
> Seems like a good plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...the criminals in Europe don't bother with that crap....they just by their guns more quickly in Belgian train stations......and shoot up cartoonists or the neighborhoods in Marseilles.......with illegal fully automatic weapons.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know your position is pathetically weak when all you have are anecdotes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not anectdotes...from actual European police sources...
> 
> This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....
> 
> European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles
> 
> Despite the Paris attacks, *it seems the weapons are still flowing freely through Europe. Brian Donald, chief of staff for Europol,* which coordinates cross-border actions among police forces in the E.U.’s 28 countries, says there have been two “large seizures” of assault weapons in Europe during the past two weeks, but would not give details about where they were, since the investigations were still ongoing. In all, he says police had seized “several vanloads of 30 or 40 weapons at a time,” during the past few weeks, including “AK-47s, Scorpions, handguns and semiautomatic rifles.”
> 
> another story on ease terrorists get guns....
> 
> Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard but terrorists have little trouble - The Washington Post
> 
> Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.
> 
> “There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”
> 
> 
> *But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash. *
> 
> 
> “It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”
Click to expand...


Anecdote Define Anecdote at Dictionary.com


----------



## prison/con.net

the only real answer is to pay as yet childless young women to be sterilized. say, 5k each. In the third world, that's the sme as paying  100k to a US woman. it's a life changing amount. population growth is fueling all our problems. we need to reduce the world's population by 90%. in order for all to have a CHANCE at a decent life. People need to learn to suicide when they can no longer support themselves. it's the only decent thing to do


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## 2aguy

prison/con.net said:


> the only real answer is to pay as yet childless young women to be sterilized. say, 5k each. In the third world, that's the sme as paying  100k to a US woman. it's a life changing amount. population growth is fueling all our problems. we need to reduce the world's population by 90%. in order for all to have a CHANCE at a decent life. People need to learn to suicide when they can no longer support themselves. it's the only decent thing to do




Sorry...population is not too high....we have more than enough room for everyone.......that is a left wing lie....the left hates people.....you can see it in all their policies..and the way they talk here on USMB...they think people can't control themselves, can't take care of themselves and most important that there are too many people...funny how if you talk to a lefty it always gets down to population control...especially in the 3rd World countries......

never, ever trust a lefty....to a lefty...you are one person too many on the earth....and they know the solution......they tried it in the 20th century.....


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## rdean

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bullshit.
> 
> Name the last mass shooting committed by a white Christian with a legal gun
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm guessing most of them?  Course, Timothy McVeigh holds the record and though he was both a Christian and a Republican, he didn't actually use a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He wasn't a Christian Rdean, he had renounced his Catholic faith LONG before he blew up the Murrah building, stop lying if you can
> 
> and guessing most of them doesn't cut it. name some white christian male mass shooters
Click to expand...

Prove it or shut up:

Here's what he said:

Time: Are you religious?

McVeigh: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.

Time: Do you believe in God?

McVeigh: I do believe in a God, yes. But that's as far as I want to discuss. If I get too detailed on some things that are personal like that, it gives people an easier way [to] alienate themselves from me and that's all they are looking for now.

All this text discloses is that *McVeigh distanced himself from Catholicism, not Christianity.* It also reveals that he did not want to discuss his faith further because he knew most people would find it repulsive. What was repulsive about his faith? Was he an atheist? No. Was he a secular humanist? No. What do we know about his beliefs at the time he was bombing the federal building in Oklahoma City?

There is no doubt that Timothy McVeigh was deeply influenced by the Christian Identity movement. Christian Identity is a profoundly racist and theocratic form of faith that developed in the late 1970s and spread like wildfire through rural communities throughout the U.S. in the 1980s.

An Accurate Look at Timothy McVeigh s Beliefs - EthicsDaily.com

------------------------------------------

The dialog was from Time magazine. 

OK, prove what you said.


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## 2aguy

rdean said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> rdean said:
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> 
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> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> jillian said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they get upset when you point out that most mass shootings are committed by white christian men with legal guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bullshit.
> 
> Name the last mass shooting committed by a white Christian with a legal gun
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm guessing most of them?  Course, Timothy McVeigh holds the record and though he was both a Christian and a Republican, he didn't actually use a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He wasn't a Christian Rdean, he had renounced his Catholic faith LONG before he blew up the Murrah building, stop lying if you can
> 
> and guessing most of them doesn't cut it. name some white christian male mass shooters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it or shut up:
> 
> Here's what he said:
> 
> Time: Are you religious?
> 
> McVeigh: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.
> 
> Time: Do you believe in God?
> 
> McVeigh: I do believe in a God, yes. But that's as far as I want to discuss. If I get too detailed on some things that are personal like that, it gives people an easier way [to] alienate themselves from me and that's all they are looking for now.
> 
> All this text discloses is that *McVeigh distanced himself from Catholicism, not Christianity.* It also reveals that he did not want to discuss his faith further because he knew most people would find it repulsive. What was repulsive about his faith? Was he an atheist? No. Was he a secular humanist? No. What do we know about his beliefs at the time he was bombing the federal building in Oklahoma City?
> 
> There is no doubt that Timothy McVeigh was deeply influenced by the Christian Identity movement. Christian Identity is a profoundly racist and theocratic form of faith that developed in the late 1970s and spread like wildfire through rural communities throughout the U.S. in the 1980s.
> 
> An Accurate Look at Timothy McVeigh s Beliefs - EthicsDaily.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> The dialog was from Time magazine.
> 
> OK, prove what you said.
Click to expand...



From a lefty source on mcveigh...he was an agnostic.....

McVeigh faces day of reckoning World news The Guardian


In his letter, McVeigh said he was an agnostic but that he would "improvise, adapt and overcome", if it turned out there was an afterlife. "If I'm going to hell," he wrote, "I'm gonna have a lot of company." His body is to be cremated and his ashes scattered in a secret location.

I don't know a lot of Agnostic christians......and of course the whole murder thing means he wasn't a christian when he killed those people...it is against the rules for being a christian to kill innocent people......seems to be fine with a lot of atheists though....


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## 9thIDdoc

Dana7360 said:


> This board is filled with threads from conservatives about guns. They claim that having more guns makes people more safe. That "gun free zones" or places with proper regulation of guns are more dangerous and have more people hurt by guns.
> 
> Here's a list of the 10 states with the most gun violence. While the conservatives lie the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Notice all but one state is a red state. New Mexico is a purple state. I don't know what the gun laws are in New Mexico but we all know that red states have loosened their laws on guns which has put more guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
> 
> 
> 10 States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.



Once again you use semantics rather than attempt to engage in honest debate. Gun violence! Oh the horror! Get a clue, I (and many others) am highly in favor of some gun violence. I am in favor of gun violence that keeps my family alive and unharmed. I am in favor of gun violence that puts food on the tables of hungry people. I am in favor of gun violence that brings our boys home from foreign conflicts. I am in favor of gun violence done to targets for sport, recreation, and practice. I am even in favor of people having a quick and painless option for suicide. Drop the "gun violence" BS. Only idiots would mistake that as a real issue.


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