# That Gun Totting Evil White Man that shot that poor black teen.



## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Is actually hispanic.

suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also. 

The asshole was out to kill somebody. Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. When you are in that positon, and you initiate the conflict, you are automatically wrong. When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, you have committed murder.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .  

 Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, .



I deleted out the bullshit, so that doesn't leave me much except to agree with you that the circumstances are important.

a witness say Zimmerman on his back and heard someone yelling for help.

Zimmerman was beaten.  Busted face and grass stains on his back.

he was armed with a pistol and won against a teen with a can as a weapon.

but like I said

He isn't white, so the race baiters, like the teens family, are fucked.


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## LogikAndReazon (Mar 20, 2012)

Epidemic minority violence is "society's" fault...........

the blame belongs to everyone except the perpetrators


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

Really? Here the perpetrator has been let go. For now.


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## old navy (Mar 20, 2012)

The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> 
> Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, .
> 
> ...



Boy, you are way out of line. Zimmerman was twice the size of the kid. He initiated the conflict. The boy had done nothing at all wrong. All the boy had on him was a sack of candy and a can of iced tea. 

There are a bunch of questions here. Why, with Zimmerman's background, did he have a concealed carry permit at all? Why did not the police take him in for questioning, and arrest him just on the evidence of the recording on the 9-11 call? 

And why are you defending a murderer?


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Really? Here the perpetrator has been let go. For now.



Actually he was detained, questioned and released.

seems more facts keep coming out.

but don't let that get in the way of a good race bait.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Two Thumbs said:
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> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
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WOW

That's some good rhetoric!!

YOU are INNOCENT until proven guilty.

unless people think you are white and a black kid dies, then you are guilty by assumption and should be executed.



liberals, just gotta love it when they prove they care nothing for the law or our rights.


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## LogikAndReazon (Mar 20, 2012)

and it wasnt just a murder, it was a "hate" murder..................that makes it even more terrible


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

old navy said:


> The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.



It most certainly is an issue. This crime was committed by a person with the permit. And that permit has certain responsibilities attached to it. One is that you do not initiate hostilities.

Also an issue here, is why this particular person had such a permit.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> old navy said:
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> > The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.
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Could you link that please.

I know it's complete bullshit, I just want to see you flounder.

Since we have the right to bear arms and all that, permits are unconstitutional.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



I don't really care about his race, but did people presume he was white because of his last name Zimmerman? not really a common Hispanic last name from what I know.


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## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> old navy said:
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> > The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.
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It does? then post that law.

The lefts lying hysteria is what opened many more States to concealed carry then from the original 7.  You dont have a damn clue.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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yes

Look at the links that are hating on him.  as of yesterday they all called him white.

If he was Zimose, this would not be news, as the family of the teen would not be screaming hate crime.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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The guy was more than likely still racist, there are plenty racist Hispanics who hate Blacks, this guy is probably one of them.


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## del (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> 
> Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, .
> 
> ...


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> 
> Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, .
> 
> ...



Another witness says the victim was trying to get away from the killer; I posted a link.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 20, 2012)

Is this the part where Obama calls him up, asks him how he's doing and apologizes for the media mistakes of calling him white?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Is this the part where Obama calls him up, asks him how he's doing and apologizes for the media mistakes of calling him white?



No, you'd only get an apology if the guy was Muslim.


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## California Girl (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
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> > Is this the part where Obama calls him up, asks him how he's doing and apologizes for the media mistakes of calling him white?
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Or a 'slut'.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> 
> Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . *When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here*



Are you fucking insane?  The shooter was recorded on 911 tapes telling the the dispatcher that the kid was running away, and that he was pursuing him.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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reports have it that he called the cops on white people as well.

so


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## California Girl (Mar 20, 2012)

I have avoided reading any coverage on this, mainly because it appears the media are not reporting the story accurately and, again, are filling in their own facts where it suits them. It is always wise not to accept the version that the media run with early on. 

My prayers are with the victim's family.


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## old navy (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> old navy said:
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> > The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.
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Why or how he got the permit is a seperate issue. On cue, the anti-gunners want to correlate the permit and the crime. One who sets out to commit a gun crime will do so regardless of being permitted or not. The fact remains that the majority of gun crimes are committed by persons who are not legally permitted to carry firearms. So far this dude looks like a turd but I will wait until the matter is resolved before I declare him guilty of any crime.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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c'mon rocky!


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## old navy (Mar 20, 2012)

California Girl said:


> High_Gravity said:
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or a lawyer or law professor


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> seems more facts keep coming out.
> 
> but don't let that get in the way of a good race bait.



The facts indicate that Zimmerman was acting like an vigilante, and got entirely carried away.  Forget race.  You don't get to claim self defense when you pursue someone who is running away, and instigate a conflict with them.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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Dude sounds like he was an asshole.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


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you are assuming he instigated a conflict.

are you trying to tell me that a 28 y/o pudgy man ran down a thin teenager?



And I just LOVE the assumption of guilt coming from so many here.


remember this when you want to cry about someone taking away something from you.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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I'd bet my last penny that he was a real gas at parties.

assuming he would ever get an invite.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.


Than, why would you call him an Evil White Man...especially when it's pretty-damned-obvious he's of Latin-descent?






If you never heard about the friction, *between Blacks & Hispanics*, in Florida....you....



> ....*don't know FLORIDA**!!!!*


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## Truthmatters (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



with a name like zimmerman I bet he is not 100% latino.

there are white latinos btw


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## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Two Thumbs said:
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LOL  It has to be racist, it just has to be.....


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


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that's racist and irrelevant.

His FAMILY says they are hispanic.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also.
> 
> The asshole was out to kill somebody. Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. When you are in that positon, and you initiate the conflict, you are automatically wrong. When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, you have committed murder.


What's *most* bizarre, is....cops insisted he had no record of being a problem (besides, *attacking a cop*), yet.....the *photos* shown, of him, *aren't* a mug-shot*??!!!*









​


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## Truthmatters (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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and my family calls themselves Irish even though there is english and german in their too.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


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They call him white b/c that will foment race hate on a national level.

If he was noted as he is, hispanic, then it wouldn't have made it past the local news stations.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


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good lord


That's b/c it's cool to be Irish.

Since nazi germany and the english always suck.

but hey

never let the race bait go.  Stay on that hook until you are in the boat and get whatever it is you want.

crazy ass people.

assume;  Zimmerman is guilty
assume; he's white
assume; he started it
assume; the cops are stoopud
assume; the teen did nothing
assume; etc etc...


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2012)

The media is testing various stories to find out which one would portray white people in the worst possible way.  They are contriving facts for public consumption.   Unless you know someone who lives in the vicinity of this shooting you just won't learn what really happened but what the media wishes had happened.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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Ah, yes.....much *un*like the _Old South_....*and*, the _New_ South, *obviously*.....where the "lighter-skinned" dude _evidently_ got an *auto*-pass. 

Bad analogy, there, *Goober*.​


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> you are assuming he instigated a conflict.



I'm not assuming.  I'm applying logic and common sense to the information provided to come to reasonable conclusions.  The man admitted the kid was running away from him, Zimmerman was recorded on 911 that he was pursuing the kid as he ran away.  The kid's girlfriend was on the phone with the kid at the time, and heard Zimmerman confronting the kid while the kid asked to be left alone.  When you pursue and corner someone, you are instigating whatever conflict ensues.  This is not self defense.  



> are you trying to tell me that a 28 y/o pudgy man ran down a thin teenager?



ZIMMERMAN ADMITS IT!



> And I just LOVE the assumption of guilt coming from so many here.



What "assumption"?  The only assumption here is coming from you.  Actually, no, you're not assuming.  You're outright ignoring the facts.  It's pretty pathetic that you'll defend the murder of a child in order a futile attempt to make a score a political point.

remember this when you want to cry about someone taking away something from you.[/QUOTE]


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## ducks102 (Mar 20, 2012)

he is mexican? lol


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## ducks102 (Mar 20, 2012)

white people are a big fan of killing blacks for no reason. American history proves this.


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## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> white people are a big fan of killing blacks for no reason. American history proves this.



Whites have killed all races. Interestingly recent history places them as democrats.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> white people are a big fan of killing blacks for no reason. American history proves this.



Stop with the fucking race bullshit!!


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## GoneBezerk (Mar 20, 2012)

One stupid non-black person shoots and kills a black teen, then it makes headline news and the NAACP goes nuts. 

Meanwhile thousands of black teens are killed each year by other blacks......not a peep from the national news or the NAACP.

You can't shakedown whitey for black people killing black people.....


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Two Thumbs said:
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[/QUOTE]

holykrist multi-quotes
i hate those, so annoying, but anyway

I'm not assuming.  I'm applying logic and common sense to the information provided to come to reasonable conclusions.  The man admitted the kid was running away from him, Zimmerman was recorded on 911 that he was pursuing the kid as he ran away.  The kid's girlfriend was on the phone with the kid at the time, and heard Zimmerman confronting the kid while the kid asked to be left alone.  When you pursue and corner someone, you are instigating whatever conflict ensues.  This is not self defense.

Unless Zimmerman physically attached the teen, and it's teen, not child, we have no idea who started what.  But this teen had the skill to put a grown man on his back and maybe make him call for help.

ZIMMERMAN ADMITS IT.    The only way this occurred was if the teen stopped to face off with him.


What "assumption"?  The only assumption here is coming from you.  Actually, no, you're not assuming.  You're outright ignoring the facts.  It's pretty pathetic that you'll defend the murder of a child in order a futile attempt to make a score a political point.


again, not a child.  and per the law, Innocence is ASSUMED.  we are all innocent until PROVEN guilty, but YOU assume he's guilty b/c you ASSUMED he's WHITE.

pathetic

Hows the hate for the Constitution working for you?


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> he is mexican? lol



It's Florida, so he's most likely Cuban.

but that's just an assumption.


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## GoneBezerk (Mar 20, 2012)

It is pathetic when a hispanic that does a crime and is labeled a "white person," but as soon as there is some political angle like being out of work or losing a job.....that same hispanic person is a minority against the white population.


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## ducks102 (Mar 20, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> One stupid non-black person shoots and kills a black teen, then it makes headline news and the NAACP goes nuts.
> 
> Meanwhile thousands of black teens are killed each year by other blacks......not a peep from the national news or the NAACP.
> 
> You can't shakedown whitey for black people killing black people.....



main point is not the fact he got shot  its that white cops  are covering it up. lol

white racist conservatives dont understand.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> he is mexican? lol



If he's in Florida my bet is either Puerto Rican or Cuban heritage.


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## Missourian (Mar 20, 2012)

Folks with CCW's generally are not the aggressors in physical assaults on strangers for two very simple reasons.

1)  They have a gun.  Why would they attack someone with their fists?

2)  When you carry a gun,  you always assume your opponent has a gun.

Supposition?  Zimmerman follows Martin,  perhaps questions Martin,  verbal altercation ensues,  Martin attacks Zimmerman,  Zimmerman getting beaten calls for help,  none is forthcoming.  Zimmerman pulls gun,  fires one shot.  Martin is killed.

If this were not a gated community,  Zimmerman is in the wrong...but in a gated community,  if you do not have business in the community you are guilty of trespassing.  Zimmerman,  as a member of the community,  has every right to question strangers.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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You mean, like, O'Brien?


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## GoneBezerk (Mar 20, 2012)

No shithead, there probably isn't enough evidence to arrest him....yet. There needs to be solid witnesses to make charges stick. 

But meanwhile more black people probably have died in Orlando and not a tear from you scumbag. 



ducks102 said:


> GoneBezerk said:
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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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It was a hate-crime.

Anyone, in Florida, would admit that.​


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Unless Zimmerman physically attached the teen, and it's teen, not child, we have no idea who started what.



That is where you are wrong.  Zimmerman admits to pursuing Martin.  And Martin's girlfriend was on the phone with him at the time that Zimmerman caught up with him.  Even if Martin "threw the first punch" Zimmerman still instigated the situation by pursuing Martin.  Zimmerman cannot possibly make a legal claim to self defense, because self defense requires a reasonable attempt at retreat.



> But this teen had the skill to put a grown man on his back and maybe make him call for help.



Okay, now YOU ARE making assumptions after all.  What do you base this claim on?



> The only way this occurred was if the teen stopped to face off with him.



Again, that's a wild assumption.  You have nothing to base this on, other than your presumption of Martin's guilt.



> again, not a child.  and per the law, Innocence is ASSUMED.  we are all innocent until PROVEN guilty, but YOU assume he's guilty b/c you ASSUMED he's WHITE.



Where have I said anything regarding the race of either individual?  I don't care if he's purple with orange polka-dots.  Zimmerman admits to shooting Martin.  And his claim of self defense is bullshit and disproven by the evidence.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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....And, *Florida* is *FULL*-of-'em.....and, the *White-Trash*, down there, *LOVE it that way!!!!*

I've got a Sister who lives in Broward County. *None* of this is any big secret to the folks who know how *Florida* "works".​


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


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California is the same way maybe even worse, theres alot of Brown on Black violence down there.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Is this the part where Obama calls him up, asks him how he's doing and apologizes for the media mistakes of calling him white?


I'd imagine that'd be the impression of *most* ignorant, White-Trash bigots.​


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## ducks102 (Mar 20, 2012)

white people just dont like blacks
1. slavery
2. civil rights murders
3. equal rights
4. racism in hiring
5. white cops killing unarmed black men
6. whites have the most hangings of blacks. whites would take their kids to hangigns


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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....But, you _forgot _to post any evidence (of _those reports_), right?


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## Si modo (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> white people just dont like blacks
> 1. slavery
> 2. civil rights murders
> 3. equal rights
> ...


And I don't like retards.  Oh well.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


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there's link all over the place, find one that's updated and have some fun.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

California Girl said:


> I have avoided reading any coverage on this, mainly because it appears the media are not reporting the story accurately and, again, are filling in their own facts where it suits them. It is always wise not to accept the version that the media run with early on.


So....what you're saying, is.....you know *better* than the media.....because you've "avoided reading any coverage on this".





Stupid Fuckin' *Teabaggin' Bimbo*​


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks all, but the circle jerk has begun.

face these facts please

he is not white
The cops know more about what happened than you, so if you "know" he's guilty, you are wrong.


thank you all for posting.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

old navy said:


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....*AND*, the fact he'd (already) been busted for attacking a cop.

How is someone (who's *obviously* got no regard for law-enforcement) allowed to carry-a-gun??​


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

old navy said:


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Awwwwwwwwwwwwww.....those poor *White-Trash*......


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

LogikAndReazon said:


> and it wasnt just a murder, it was a "hate" murder..................that makes it even more terrible



like when those two black boys poured gasoline on the white kid and set him on fire? Has that been labeled a Hate/race crime yet? don't let's be hypocritical here now.


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## old navy (Mar 20, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


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I don't know. Seperate issue.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


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He sounds too-much like a wannabe-cop....who couldn't pass psychological-testing (*always* required)....



> ....*of stable-candidates*....



....for entry into law-enforcement.

I knew a guy, in Colorado, *exactly* like him.....who failed just-*such* that test*!!! *​


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## Lovebears65 (Mar 20, 2012)

I dont care if the man was black,brown, green or purple.He killed this child he needs to be in jail..  I have heard the 911  calls and this was no self defense case.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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Yeah....I'd say *following someone* (around), *with your vehicle*, qualifies.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


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Hell.....there are *Blonde*-ones....in *Cuba!!!*​


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Lovebears65 said:


> I dont care if the man was black,brown, green or purple.He killed this child he needs to be in jail..  I have heard the 911  calls and this was no self defense case.



It's really difficult to imagine someone the size of Zimmerman being beat up by a skinny teenager so badly that he had to scream out bloody murder loud enough to be overheard on the 911 tapes, yet not so badly as to prevent him from being able to pull out his weapon and use it before it could be wrestled away from him.  Funny, how those screams came to an abrupt end at the same time that gunshot was heard.


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## Sweet Willy (Mar 20, 2012)

This guy's name sounds white because it is white.  His father,  Robert Zimmerman,  is white.  His mother is Hispanic.  He could claim to be either.


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> LogikAndReazon said:
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That was an exercise in civil rights.  Specifically the right to pursue happiness and seeing the boy on fire made them very happy.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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That's what *Porky Limbaugh* says, huh??


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The media is testing various stories to find out which one would portray white people in the worst possible way.  They are contriving facts for public consumption.   Unless you know someone who lives in the vicinity of this shooting you just won't learn what really happened but what the media wishes had happened.



That's what *Porky Limbaugh* says, huh??


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2012)

So far, no state charges have been filed because Zimmerman's injuries have been consistent with his story.   It will be up to the Feds to phony up a case.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

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Thats ridiculous.


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


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> ...


....And, a safe-one.​


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> One stupid non-black person shoots and kills a black teen, then it makes headline news and the NAACP goes nuts.
> 
> Meanwhile thousands of black teens are killed each year by other blacks......not a peep from the national news or the NAACP.
> 
> You can't shakedown whitey for black people killing black people.....


It's *ALWAYS* helpful when you *Romney-fans* chime-in*!!*


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > One stupid non-black person shoots and kills a black teen, then it makes headline news and the NAACP goes nuts.
> ...


You're *assuming* *White*-cops are covering-up.

*Florida* has *PLENTY* of cops, of Cuban-descent*!!!!!*​


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Missourian said:


> Folks with CCW's generally are not the aggressors in physical assaults on strangers for two very simple reasons.
> 
> 1)  They have a gun.  Why would they attack someone with their fists?
> 
> ...



*Supposition 2:* Zimmerman follows Martin,  perhaps questions Martin,  verbal altercation ensues, Zimmerman flashes gun, Martin *hauls-ASS!!!*, Zimmerman pulls gun,  fires one shot.  Martin is killed.​


Missourian said:


> If this were not a gated community,  Zimmerman is in the wrong...but in a gated community,  if you do not have business in the community you are guilty of trespassing.  Zimmerman,  as a member of the community,  has every right to question strangers.



....And, Martin.....who was visiting friends....has *EVERY FUCKIN' RIGHT TO BE THERE!!!!*

If a gated-community *HAS* no security, you *CALL THE COPS!!!!*

Hell.....ya' gotta be _marginally_-*paranoid* to live in a gated-community, anyhow.

(Not exactly the kind o' people you want running-free, *armed*, anyhow.)​


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## Mr. Shaman (Mar 20, 2012)

Si modo said:


> ducks102 said:
> 
> 
> > white people just dont like blacks
> ...


Then you'd have been no big fan of the *good ol' days*, in.....



> .....*The Old South**.*


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## g5000 (Mar 20, 2012)

Sweet Willy said:


> This guy's name sounds white because it is white.  His father,  Robert Zimmerman,  is white.  His mother is Hispanic.  He could claim to be either.



Like Obama?


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## g5000 (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> white people are a big fan of killing blacks for no reason. American history proves this.



*sprinkles magic fairy dust*

And therefore...Zimmerman is a murderer.


Say no more!  That's all the evidence *I* need.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uDCoN-gCmw]15 Year Old Kid Set on FIRE because of 40 Dollors,family Speak Out !!! Fla - YouTube[/ame]











I have searched desperately to find a story that tells me eric holder, al sharpton of the fdle have even paid a wit of attention to this case of hate crime.. sadly I am unable to find anything. nada.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> I have searched desperately to find a story that tells me eric holder, al sharpton of the fdle have even paid a wit of attention to this case of hate crime.. sadly I am unable to find anything. nada.



Perhaps you missed it, but the perpetrators in that case were arrested and charged.


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## g5000 (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.





> *Police have described Zimmerman as white*; his family says he is Hispanic and not racist.



The Associated Press: Feds, local grand jury to probe Fla. teen&#39;s death


In the exact same story:



> In this undated file family photo, Trayvon Martin poses for a family photo. College students around Florida rallied Monday, March 19, 2012, to demand the arrest of a *white neighborhood watch captain* who shot unarmed teen Martin last month, though authorities may be hamstrung by a state law that allows people to defend themselves with deadly force. (AP Photo/Martin Family Photos, File)



So the AP is calling him white, too.


Trayvon Martin's death gains national attention | wtsp.com


> Sybrina Fulton, Martin's mom was asked on Monday what she thought Zimmerman was reacting to.
> 
> "He was reacting to the color of (my son's) skin." Fulton noted her son had committed no crime and wasn't doing anything wrong -- just walking on the sidewalk.





> On Thursday civil rights leader Rev. Al Sharpton is scheduled to appear at an event as the case draws more national attention.



Greeeeeat...


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## Sweet Willy (Mar 20, 2012)

g5000 said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > This guy's name sounds white because it is white.  His father,  Robert Zimmerman,  is white.  His mother is Hispanic.  He could claim to be either.
> ...



No,  not like Obama.  White father,  Hispanic mother.  He can ultimately choose his own race on forms.  Would be interesting if some forms turned up and we could see how Mr. Zimmerman chose his race when asked.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > I have searched desperately to find a story that tells me eric holder, al sharpton of the fdle have even paid a wit of attention to this case of hate crime.. sadly I am unable to find anything. nada.
> ...



did al sharpton arrive on the scene yet? how about holder? they there yet? where is the outrage? oh  sorry there is none, it was a white kid so it's okay to burn him alive.. we got it.


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## BlindBoo (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



What difference does that make?  He was a wanna-be-cop on a neighborhood watch.  He's called the police 46 times this year.  He chased down the kid for no other reason than he was black.  He was told by the police to not pursue the kid.  Now the kid is dead. I call that a hate crime.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Why in the name of all things unholy does the conversation continue to swirl around whether Zimmerman is "white" or "hispanic"?  What does it accomplish?  Does him being Hispanic alleviate the allegations of racism on his part?  Do they alleviate the allegations of the police department being racist in not prosecuting Martin's murder?  Do they change the fact that Zimmerman pursued Martin?  Do they change the fact that Zimmerman shot Martin?


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## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

BlindBoo said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Is actually hispanic.
> ...



Hate crimes are a fallacy.......

Sure in some instances hate may be involved but we couldnt prosecute him under the law and we just dont like the guy.

There is the justification.  Happy?


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



To you.  But to the ones who set the boy on fire, it makes perfect sense.  A lot of criminal conduct has at its core, a belief that there is some kind of right to commit that crime.  They were just having fun, it was a prank, they have a right.   If we didn't have a bizarre and twisted concept of "rights" and taught the public a decent civics class we might not have these problems.

The way it is now, everyone adopts their "rights" and doesn't find out its wrong until they get stepped on somehow.

As it stands, Zimmerman is not likely to face prosecution under state law.  It will be up to the Feds to manufacture a case, without regard to the facts and state law.    You are an intelligent person.  Surely you can see what happened.   For whatever rearson Zimmerman in his capacity of Neighborhood Watch started following this young man.  The young man, realizing he is being followed by someone for some reason, panics.   Zimmerman is terrified himself.  We have two very frightened individuals.   Believing he is about to be mugged, the teen bops Zimmerman with the can of soda he's carrying.  Zimmerman now knows that he is under attack and shoots the kid.   Tragic.  An unfortunately and horrible end to an unfortunate and horrible situation.  

We have a new culture, one in which every person not known personally is a threat.  In this case BOTH of them were threats to one another.  They BOTH made 911 calls.  They were BOTH scared out of their minds.  Sometimes it really is a good idea to say "Halt, Who Goes There".  But, each one was exercising a right and neither one would give it up.

They say an armed society is a polite society.   We are seeing that made a lie.  There's a right to not be polite.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



I see you've forgotten to take your tax payer provided medications again.

The reason the Feds have gotten involved is because of the lack of action by the police, and the failure to arrest and charge the perpetrator.  You, of course, already know that.  But since it doesn't support your race baiting, you have to babble on about unconnected BS and try to manufacture something that isn't there.  Shut up and swallow already.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> A lot of criminal conduct has at its core, a belief that there is some kind of right to commit that crime.



And you have a link right here:



I'm sorry could you repeat that?


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## washamericom (Mar 20, 2012)

i was wondering where this would be politically if it had happened in maricopa county.

smacks of vigilantism... not a good trend...


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS


1. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument, even if it isn't loaded or you never intend to use it. 

2. The amount of force that you use to defend yourself must not be excessive under the circumstances. 

Never use deadly force in self-defense unless you are afraid that if you don't, you will be killed or seriously injured; 
Verbal threats never justify your use of deadly force; 
If you think someone has a weapon and will use it unless you kill him, be sure you are right and are not overreacting to the situation. 
3. The law permits you to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense. Carrying a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman or a "good samaritan."

4. Never carry your concealed weapon into any place where the statute prohibits carrying it. 

This is not a complete summary of all the statutes and court opinions on the use of deadly force. Because the concealed weapons statute specifies that concealed weapons are to be used for lawful self-defense, we have not attempted to summarize the body of law on lawful defense of property. This information is not intended as legal advice. Every self-defense case has its own unique set of facts, and it is unwise to try to predict how a particular case would be decided. It is clear, however, that the law protects people who keep their tempers under control and use deadly force only as a last resort.


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



It doesn't matter, I don't think. One person unjustly shot and killed another person. He needs to be arrested and put on trial.


----------



## BlindBoo (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > One stupid non-black person shoots and kills a black teen, then it makes headline news and the NAACP goes nuts.
> ...



Of course they understand.  It's most important to say nothing is ever racially motivated.  Ever.


----------



## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of criminal conduct has at its core, a belief that there is some kind of right to commit that crime.
> ...


----------



## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



What an asshole you are. A 17 kid was murdered and you justify it. You are really low scum.


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## koshergrl (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > old navy said:
> ...


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...









I know I know,, it's hard for you and your ilk to shoulder your hypocrisy.. but that's just the way it is,, innit?


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## koshergrl (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...


 
Nope, murder is a legal definition. At this point, he was killed. And it appears the cops and DA think the guy who killed him was justified.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...








where did I justify it you dumbass of a tampon? that's qute a stretch. I know I know,, you don't like for me to mention that black kids set a white kid on fire and told him it's what he deserved.. do ya?


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



What white kid?  This is about a black kid.  The only thing you seem to "got" is a drive to turn everything into a false equivalency.  The fact that we're talking about this tells you NOTHING about the other incident.  And the wingnuts wonder why we call them racist so often!!!


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

remember that case in Memphis where the black people kidnapped a young white teenage couple? they sodomized them raped them, set them on fire, and we were'nt allowed to mention race.. you choking on your hypocrisy yet?


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## LockeJaw (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> 
> Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, .
> 
> ...



This sounds like an incident that could've been avoided. Doesn't matter what race the shooter or the kid were. The neighborhood watch guy apparently was within his rights if he was attacked, but all of this could've been avoided if nwg wouldntve confronted the kid.


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Because it has nothing to do with this incident, ya racist bitch.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> So far, no state charges have been filed because Zimmerman's injuries have been consistent with his story.   It will be up to the Feds to phony up a case.



Dumb fuck, by Florida's own laws, he is guilty of homocide. He has no legal defense by Florida's own laws, because the kid was far smaller than him, he initiated the conflict, that the kid was not armed in any way.

Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS

Q. What if I see a crime being committed? 

A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> remember that case in Memphis where the black people kidnapped a young white teenage couple? they sodomized them raped them, set them on fire, and we were'nt allowed to mention race.. you choking on your hypocrisy yet?



Who said you weren't allowed to mention race?  When the incident was discussed, race was mentioned repeatedly, ya lying racist.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



I know I know it never does you hypocrite racist bastard.


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

LockeJaw said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> ...



Sure it could have been avoided, if he did as told and stopped following the boy.  He should have been arrested on that basis alone.


----------



## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > remember that case in Memphis where the black people kidnapped a young white teenage couple? they sodomized them raped them, set them on fire, and we were'nt allowed to mention race.. you choking on your hypocrisy yet?
> ...



no you bastard racist we weren't,, we were told over and over that race didn't have a damn thing to do with it.. you lying racist


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



So, by your own words, one horrible criminal act justifies another one? You are one sick bitch.


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Nothing whatsoever, except in the minds of wingnut racists.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...





quote those word you lying racist sick bastard.. go ahead we will wait.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

LockeJaw said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> ...



No, by Florida law, he was not in his rights in any manner.

Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS

When can I use my handgun to protect myself? 

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are: 

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm; 
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping. 
Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse. 

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



you shouldn't talk about yourself in such unflattering terms..racist.


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



You were told?  I thought you said you weren't ALLOWED to talk about it.  Did moderators tell you so?  Was there a threat to have you kicked off the board?  Give us some evidence.  PUT UP OR SHUT UP.


----------



## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



No dumb fuck, Willow is pointing out a double standard, as no hate crime charges have been filed in the case of which she speaks, No fbi investigation nadda.

Get it yet?


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



See above


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



double standards and hypocrisy you racist bastard,, that's why sharpton didn't show up for the burned up white kid.. or the murdered white teens in memphis,, nope no al sharpton anywhere to be seen..


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...





You shouldn't write checks that your ass can't cash.


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Is Sharpton one of the board moderators now?  Who said you couldn't talk about it?  Sounds like you're making things up.  If you were telling the truth, you'd provide proof.  The fact that you have to bring up Sharpton speaks volumes.


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## LockeJaw (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> LockeJaw said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...


Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you. He was probably playing wannabe cop and following the kid, the kid got irritated or creeped out by the guy. Then the kid decided to walk over and ask what his problem was, words were exchanged, fight ensued, old nwg couldn't physically win and was being hit in the head with the soda can, pulled his pistol and shot him.

And he's safe under florida law for shooting him, but he should be charged with manslaughter at the least for initiating the confrontation in the first place.


----------



## GuyPinestra (Mar 20, 2012)

ducks102 said:


> white people are a big fan of killing blacks for no reason. American history proves this.



Fuck you ducks, you racist bag o' shit!!


----------



## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



I think I won this round.. sorry racist you lose.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

I knew that some of these people that post here were racists and really sick, I did not realize how many. 

Justification of the murder of a 17 boy by a man twice his size, when the boy was doing absolutely nothing wrong is just about as low as it gets. These are the kind of people that allowed the ovens to be fired up in Germany.


----------



## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



Yes highlighting a race pimp meets your disapproval, that does speak volumes.


----------



## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



provide yer own damn prooof I anit yer damn slave.


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## beagle9 (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. *The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. *Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also.
> 
> The asshole was out to kill somebody. Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. When you are in that positon, and you initiate the conflict, you are automatically wrong. When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, you have committed murder.



Havn't read the news report on this yet, but your above statement that I have embolded, is an idiotic statement as is written on your part, and undoubtedly it is a statement written by a possible racist also.

So no matter what goes on in the south eh, if it involves a black and white, then racism is always the case to be involved no matter what ? Kidding me right?

This ideology in thinking, is what opens the door wide open for the devil himself to walk right on through it, and with ease... Like Martin Luther King once said himself, "judge a man based upon his character, and not upon his skin color", then the facts can be truly found out in these cases in a more fair and balanced way..

It could have been just a case of bullyism and chest pounding that got totally out of control between these two individuals who came together in life at the wrong time, where as the shooter could have been just preying on a supposed weaker victim in life (i.e. just was looking for an excuse, because he had finally broke in a volital economy and/or due to many hardships he has had in life), where as if it would have been anyone else, and of any other color to have push this person's button in life at the wrong time, the results & outcome still could have been the same if be the case. Unfortunately for this young man, he may have become a victim of a person who finally broke in his life, where as the results were traggic once this happened, where as it was an anything goes after that type of event or situation takes place in ones life sadly enough. Will be interesting to learn what has happened in this situation....

If it is racism, then the guy needs to be evaluated as such based upon the strong evidence as to be found within what is known to be racism, and yes the investigation should go federal yes, but your blanket statement above is rediculous & reveals your bias in life against white people whom live in the south... I hope you know that !


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Whatever you say.  You don't really have much of a grasp on reality anyway!


----------



## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> I knew that some of these people that post here were racists and really sick, I did not realize how many.
> 
> Justification of the murder of a 17 boy by a man twice his size, when the boy was doing absolutely nothing wrong is just about as low as it gets. These are the kind of people that allowed the ovens to be fired up in Germany.



again you lying hypocrite,, no one justified anything,, we just pointed out al sharpton's fucking hypocrisy..


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## konradv (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



You're the one making the assertion.  I don't have to prove yours.  I'm just making one of my own, that you're a racist and all the evidence is in this thread.  QED


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > I knew that some of these people that post here were racists and really sick, I did not realize how many.
> ...



And succeeded in highlighting your obvious racism and bigotry. And the fact that you care nothing for justice. I stand by my comments concerning your character.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. *The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. *Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also.
> ...



Well fellow, in the '40s and 50s, when I was a child, lynching in the South was a weekend sport. And it was just one race that was the target of the lynchings. While much change has taken place, from the comments on this board, you can see that there are many that would that we could return to the "good old days".


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## beagle9 (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> ...


No one defending a murderer I don't think, but just analyzing the circumstances and the case as was put up on here for debate and to engauge in conversation over... Hopefully a get to the bottom of the case will be reached, and justice will soon prevail finally..


----------



## beagle9 (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


Your opinion is closed minded due to your personal life experiences and/or teachings, but you need to come forward and join the rest of us in modern day society finally (if you can somehow do that).. The very thing that you are using as an excuse, could also serve as this guy's defence just as well if not careful... Ever think about that one ?


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

konradv said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



you think calling me a racist is going to damage me>> then dew it.  racist.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...






tough tittle said the little kittie


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 20, 2012)

Full-Auto said:


> There is much truth in his statement.



And no doubt, the link will be coming any time.



> Yet if you were to probe psychology papers you wouldnt have responded as such.



And you think you know so much about what I have and have not read.  But you don't.  Because, you are, yourself, not well versed in what you both are trying to talk about.

His claim is flawed at best.  He is, clumsily, trying to the tendencies of many people with criminal histories to demonstrate anti-social behavior tendencies, while confusing anti social behavior with psychopathic behavior.  The problem is that anti-social personality disorder is not the same thing as psychopathy, and while a large portion of prison populations may indeed meet the criteria of that condition, only a small minority could be considered to meet the definition of psychopathy.  Furthermore, psychopathy is not now, nor has it ever been, a recognized disorder by the psychiatric community.  The recognized and accepted diagnoses criteria of anti social personality disorder is an evaluation of behavior based on clinical evidence and research, while the label of psychopathy is one that is used in the law enforcement setting to evaluate a person's morality.  That is something that psychiatric practice will not do, nor has a need to do.  Furthermore, the use of the label of psychopathy in the law enforcement setting itself carries a circular presumption, whereby behavior is deemed "immoral" based on the assumption that the person's character is altogether "immoral" and that his motivations are purely "immoral" without any possibility of more in depth explanations being given.  In short, the label is a writing off of the person as being incapable of anything other than evil.  In the clinical setting, a person with anti social personality disorder is regarded as having the ability to make decisions to engage in proper social behaviors, and as being responsible for those decisions.  It's ironic that that law enforcement practices at times utilize the label of psychopathy to prosecute crimes, when the concept itself presumes a mental state by the actor that would make them incapable of being criminally responsible for their actions.

Next time you want to belittle someone, make sure you're armed with more than parlor talk.


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> 
> Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, .
> 
> ...



Link?  Or lie?



> Zimmerman was beaten.  Busted face and grass stains on his back.



Link?  Or lie?



> he was armed with a pistol and won against a teen with a can *as a weapon*.



Link?  Or lie?


----------



## Lonestar_logic (Mar 20, 2012)

Sounds like a cse of self defense.


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Sounds like a cse of self defense.


Based on what information?


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Sounds like a cse of self defense.



Figures your ignorant ass would say that.


----------



## Lonestar_logic (Mar 20, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a cse of self defense.
> ...



Based on Zimmermans statement and witness statements that collaborate it. 

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - OrlandoSentinel.com


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## washamericom (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



those breasts are monumental...


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

washamericom said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Yes they are, I plan to marry that girl/


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## Lonestar_logic (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a cse of self defense.
> ...



Can you prove it wasn't self defense?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Lonestar_logic said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



So the kid attacked Zimmerman with skittles and a can of sweet tea?


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## washamericom (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



it occured to me that one day this great country will have a black republican president, will render democrats all racist..


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## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Full-Auto said:
> 
> 
> > There is much truth in his statement.
> ...



I have made zero claims to know or even to pretend to guess the knowledge you have acquired. I do know that many people operate with the presumption it is a right to break the law, That is my only claim.

So take your butt hurt and apply some preparation H OK


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## whitehall (Mar 20, 2012)

Ever listen to the "ad.-council-federal government" radio message featuring "McGruff the crime dog"? It's weird and vaguely offensive that the federal government would try for an awkwardly funny and yet serious advice about neighborhood crime watch. Of course McGruff doesn't advise shooting a stranger but the message is clear, take action and inform on strangers in the neighborhood.


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a cse of self defense.
> ...



Only because the injuries were consistent with self defense.  We are never going to know what really happened anyway.   The government has too much invested in finding the shooter guilty of something.   The State wants to uphold their stand your ground law.

To me, if I was in charge and someone made 40 911 calls within such a short period of time, it seems like there would be a review to see if he had a CCW permit and get an evaluation to see if he should keep it.   The man is obviously some kind of nervous nellie who doesn't have the judgment to be on any kind of neighborhood watch program.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

washamericom said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > konradv said:
> ...



democrats will NEVER allow a black Republican to become President.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



Thats the biggest problem, and it cost someone their life.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

why did they even have a neighborhood watch program?


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



I always knew you were not too bright, but now I think you are just a hate filled monster. There really is something seriously wrong with you.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> why did they even have a neighborhood watch program?



I wasn't aware those guys were even allowed to carry fire arms.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Rinata said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...



I know,, I know.. I'm wrong for seeing the hypocrisy of the left.. more power to meeeee.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > why did they even have a neighborhood watch program?
> ...



why did they have a neighborhood watch program?


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



There is no reason to mention it. What's the point?? It was just as wrong as this was, you ignorant bitch. I swear, you have rocks in your idiot head.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Don't know, but it looks like the guys running it have their heads jammed up their asses.


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## NLT (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Wow what an exaggeration.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



I bet yu don't wanna know either.


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> remember that case in Memphis where the black people kidnapped a young white teenage couple? they sodomized them raped them, set them on fire, and we were'nt allowed to mention race.. you choking on your hypocrisy yet?



So your logic is that because of that incident, what happened to Trayvon Martin is justified. You are so sick.


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## WillowTree (Mar 20, 2012)

Rinata said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > remember that case in Memphis where the black people kidnapped a young white teenage couple? they sodomized them raped them, set them on fire, and we were'nt allowed to mention race.. you choking on your hypocrisy yet?
> ...



you guys got stretch o matic on high today don'tya?


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...


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## NLT (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Ever been beat upside of the head with a can? He couldve had a bottle of coke and some mentos ! Now thats a deadly weapon.


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## washamericom (Mar 20, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a cse of self defense.
> ...



apparently zimmerman was bloodied...


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Sure I do, educate me.


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



You are an embarrassment to right wingers everywhere, I'm sure. You have zero critical thinking skills and zero human feelings. Just an empty head parading as a human being.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

NLT said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



Do you really think thats what happened?


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

Full-Auto said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Good Lord!!! It is you and your idiot pal that don't get it. But you just don't see that.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Peach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


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## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...


What witness statements?

Zimmerman's is merely his ass-protecting version.

His dad is irrelevant.


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## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > why did they even have a neighborhood watch program?
> ...


It's Florida.  Everyone can carry a firearm, if you get the license.


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## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

This Zimmerman will be Federally charged with a hate crime.  Mark my words.


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## GuyPinestra (Mar 20, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



From the link: 





> Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> ...


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## GuyPinestra (Mar 20, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> This Zimmerman will be Federally charged with a hate crime.  Mark my words.



You don't think that pronouncement is a little premature?


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Because whites do not need anyone to fight for them, dumb ass. It's hardly brain surgery. Even though I am whiter than the driven snow, people like you make me ashamed of my own race. I wish you and others like you would just go away. What a better world it would be.


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## washamericom (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> washamericom said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



we'll all be your best man in spirit amigo !!


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

Just by Florida law, the least he should be charged with is manslaughter.


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Oh, please!!! You have never won in your entire useless life.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

washamericom said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > washamericom said:
> ...



Sounds good!


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> NLT said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Something happened!  I really doubt that the guy was out looking for some target practice.  I doubt that Trayvon was out looking for someone to bop with a soda can.  We have a culture that is divided and each side is terrified of the other.   If I was out after dark and it became obvious to me that I was being followed, you can bet your bootie that I would take some kind of action.  BOTH of them called 911.   The dispatcher should have known that this was a volatile situation and someone was going to get hurt if not dead.   

Having seen this before, the dispatcher would have told Party 2, that Party 1 had called and reported suspicious activity.  Then called Party 1 back and said that Party 2 was worriied that he was being followed.  He was on his way home from having gone to the store.  Even if it were two 911 operators, they are both looking at the same screen and know exactly what's going on.   A patrol car should have been out there right away to stop BOTH of them and defuse this situation.  This was a monumental FU of the most major proportions but not a hate crime.


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> This Zimmerman will be Federally charged with a hate crime.  Mark my words.



MURDER is perhaps an option. I HOPE so.


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## Clementine (Mar 20, 2012)

LogikAndReazon said:


> and it wasnt just a murder, it was a "hate" murder..................that makes it even more terrible



Wow, no more need for police investigations and fair trials decided by a jury of one's peers.    Let's just assume and judge because of skin color.   No other information needed.   

Why does the left see color and make judgements based solely on that in almost every case?    I find that racist.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

The monumental fuckup was that someone with mental problems was allowed a concealed weopons permit, and that he was not told to cease and desist after so many useless calls to 9-11. The man has a history of obvious problems.

Now he has a major problem. He committed a high profile murder. And the Sanford Police Department apparently was going to let him get away with it. I don't care what law or method they use to take this guy down, he has to come down. He committed murder for no reason at all.


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## Claudette (Mar 20, 2012)

Think I'll just wait for all the facts to come out. 

I live down her in Florida and this shit has been on the news all day. 

Sharpton and everyother bs artist has been on the news. 

Still don't have all the facts and probably won't until if and when it goes to trial.


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## GuyPinestra (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> The monumental fuckup was that someone with mental problems was allowed a concealed weopons permit, and that he was not told to cease and desist after so many useless calls to 9-11. The man has a history of obvious problems.
> 
> Now he has a major problem. He committed a high profile murder. And the Sanford Police Department apparently was going to let him get away with it. I don't care what law or method they use to take this guy down, he has to come down. He committed murder for no reason at all.



Care to prove your accusation of 'mental problems'? Or maybe just the accusation of 'murder'? 

The truth is, none of us know what actually happened and it doesn't look like we will any time soon. Rushing around hysterically screaming 'Murder' is just a little over the top right now. Let the authorities do their jobs and we'll see where we are at in a week or 2...


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > NLT said:
> ...



The Police told him not to pursue Trayvon, Zimmerman really should have listened to the Police.


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## Contumacious (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> I*s actually hispanic.*
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



That is correct.

He came from one of the following "LATIN" Countries:

*Zimmerman Family Origin*

 Germany (670)
Switzerland (108)
Preussen (53)
France (39)
Russia (34)
Württemberg (22) 


Who would have thunketh?

.

.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Contumacious said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > I*s actually hispanic.*
> ...



His mother is Hispanic fuck face, no go back and play with your Ron Paul blow up doll.


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## Contumacious (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...



I noticed that you are a tad belligerent. 

I take it that you Mandingo BFF hasn't given you a cum facial yet. He is more than likely two-timing you.

.


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## uptownlivin90 (Mar 20, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> ...



Shut up!

Forget facts.

It was the black kids fault. It always is.

The black kid obviously was a criminal.

Obviously stole the food from the 7-eleven.

Obviously mercilessly beat the flashlight cop and was going to kill him if he didn't take out his weapon and shoot the kid.

Look, the only place I put race in this discussion ANYWHERE is the fact that because the young kid was an African American there are certain segments of society that will not accept that the kid was innocently walking down the street.

African American males don't innocently walk down the street at night. We just don't. It's the law of nature. Cop vs black kid, obviously the black kid did something wrong. Even though Mr. Zimmerman has a criminal past and has a history of calling the police for bogus situations... it was the black kids fault.

Race may have had something to do with this case. I don't pretend to know how Zimmerman feels about black people. I don't care. I don't believe he's a racist I believe he's a complete idiot and was probably drunk.

If anyone should claim self-defense it was the kid. You do not pursue someone who looks suspicious walking down the street unless you are a trained law enforcement officer, period. If I could pursue and kill every person that looked suspicious in my neighborhood, I'd have no neighbors.

Seriously there are some segments of society that WILL NOT accept that an innocent young black teenager would ever have to defend himself against anyone. We are always wrong. Because we to them are an inferior race. And crime prone. THEY are the racists, whether or not Zimmerman was a racist I have no clue.

It is unfortunate, if nothing else that a FATHER lost his son in all this.

But of course the internet freaks don't care. Comments like "minority crime strikes again" or whatever will continue, because we are not human nor do we have emotion, we are vicious crime ridden "minorities". We are animals. I thank God, that I had a praying mother, who woke up morning by morning and prayed for an hour before work every day for my safety growing up or this very well could have been me. I'm a registered republican, I believe in self-determination, responsability, and accountability. But I don't JUST believe in it for black people. This Mr. Zimmerman needs to be held accountable for his actions. A life is lost. A family is mourning and people simply just want to call the kid a thug, not because he was or they know him.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Contumacious said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Contumacious said:
> ...



You would know all about cum facials wouldn't you faggot?


----------



## J.E.D (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> He isn't white, so the race baiters, like the teens family, are fucked.



It seems the person doing the race-baiting, is you; so, I guess you fucked yourself. BTW, nice attack on the murdered teen's family. You must be very proud of yourself.


----------



## washamericom (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> washamericom said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



in fact i'm giving another rep because they're real and they're spectacular !! 

ok  i'll try to move on .....


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

washamericom said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > washamericom said:
> ...



That girl is a dime piece, any woman who can handle a 40 ounce like that has my respect.


----------



## washamericom (Mar 20, 2012)

JosefK said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > He isn't white, so the race baiters, like the teens family, are fucked.
> ...



it's nice to see the race baiter assholes outside of my birther maelstrom...

remember assholes there _will _be a black republican president someday...

this relatively new political/messageboard race hatred all belongs to obama..  _divide and concur..._


----------



## GuyPinestra (Mar 20, 2012)

uptownlivin90 said:


> Shut up!
> 
> Forget facts.
> 
> ...



What the hell are you ranting about? Nobody here has called that kid anything, let alone a thug.


----------



## uptownlivin90 (Mar 20, 2012)

GuyPinestra said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> > Shut up!
> ...






> Epidemic minority violence is "society's" fault...........
> 
> the blame belongs to everyone except the perpetrators



The kid is being blamed for this by people who feel that this should be used as a political ploy. I don't like race baiting, but Republicans do it AS MUCH as democrats. Both sides completely ignore facts to support their beliefs about others. 

Stupid Democrats: white cops are evil...
Stupid Republicans: minorities are violent...


----------



## Mustang (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



The kid had skittles concealed on his person.  Clearly, he was a danger to a helpless grown man with only a gun to protect himself.


----------



## J.E.D (Mar 20, 2012)

washamericom said:


> JosefK said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...



fail


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

GuyPinestra said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Lonestar_logic said:
> ...



So?




> Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> ...



Again, so?  The audio 911 tapes show that he was told not to persue, and he did anyway.  Since the kid was not following him, that means he confronted the kid.

You do not get to confront someone, then shoot them dead when they object to being confronted.  This guy was not a law enforcement officer and had no authority whatsoever.

That's why it's called a "Neighborhood *Watch*'.  You watch, and call the police.


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## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

GuyPinestra said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > This Zimmerman will be Federally charged with a hate crime.  Mark my words.
> ...


Nope.


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

washamericom said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > washamericom said:
> ...


But really, when you think of it, they are only spectacular because they are accompanied by a very slender waist.  Put those ta-tas on a fat chick and it's ho-hum.


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> GuyPinestra said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Not involuntary manslaughter, manslaughter, or 2nd degree murder? Why not? Of course evidence has grown cold as he wasn't tested for anything...............................


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## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

uptownlivin90 said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...



From what I have gathered so far, it does appear the shooter instigated the entire affair.

If some guy was in my face for just walking down the street I may have clocked him too.


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Full-Auto said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...




Being honest will not help the killer if an INVESTIGATION is conducted. I don't see why DOJ & the FBI need to be involved at this point though. FDLE should be able to handle it.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 20, 2012)

Peach said:


> Full-Auto said:
> 
> 
> > uptownlivin90 said:
> ...



Well they haven't done anything, so maybe the FBI and DOJ should get involved.


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## Full-Auto (Mar 20, 2012)

Peach said:


> Full-Auto said:
> 
> 
> > uptownlivin90 said:
> ...



I must agree with that. It was turned over to the prosecutors office because the police are not sure how the new law applies in this case.  It certainly is a tragedy.

If the justice dept applied all laws equally I may feel different, but that remains doubtful.


----------



## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Full-Auto said:
> ...




It just got turned over to the SA; it is the Seminole County Sheriff that did -0-.


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## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

Peach said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > GuyPinestra said:
> ...


Perhaps.  I just think that's the angle that the Feds will pursue.


----------



## Synthaholic (Mar 20, 2012)

Peach said:


> Full-Auto said:
> 
> 
> > uptownlivin90 said:
> ...


If FDLE had been interested, they would have moved on this a lot earlier.


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## rdean (Mar 20, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



George Zimmerman.  Hmmm, Mexican or Puerto Rican?  Sounds more Mexican to me.


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## Mustang (Mar 20, 2012)

Sign the petition if you care about justice.

Criminal Justice Petition: Prosecute the killer of our son, 17-year-old Trayvon Martin | Change.org


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## rdean (Mar 20, 2012)

Only a Republican can listen to a black child screaming in terror for help and hear a "threat" that needs a good shooting.


----------



## GuyPinestra (Mar 20, 2012)

rdean said:


> Only a Republican can listen to a black child screaming in terror for help and hear a "threat" that needs a good shooting.



It galls me to even read some of the vile shit you post, and believe me you're a vile sonofabitch, deano.


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## uptownlivin90 (Mar 20, 2012)

GuyPinestra said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > Only a Republican can listen to a black child screaming in terror for help and hear a "threat" that needs a good shooting.
> ...



It was an extremely inappropriate comment to make. It's disgusting to make this a political issue.

Just as disgusting as it is to say things like "one more criminal gone"... "give him a darwin award and say good riddance"... which has been said on this board (mostly outside of this thread).

Just trying to be unbiased here.


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## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

Progressive nitwits and populist mobs want to lynch the guy before all the facts are even presented. gawd bless America. The black community hates gays and people who carry legal guns.

Maybe, aaaaaaaaaaaaaah, maybe if gays armed themselves they could get the cons to support their issues?


----------



## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

uptownlivin90 said:


> GuyPinestra said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...


dump the faux outrage.  you sound like Newt doing his 'I'm appalled" routine

ideologues on all sides make shit ideological. 

that said, who cares?


----------



## Salt Jones (Mar 20, 2012)

rdean said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Is actually hispanic.
> ...



His dad is white, mother Latina. But for the right-wing crowd, he's "Hispanic".

But to them, Obama having a black father and a white mother means he's not black, but "half white".

Spin it to fit your cause.

Priceless.

P.S. Hispanics and black gang members hate and kill each other all the time. Being part Hispanic doesn't absolve you from hating blacks.


----------



## Salt Jones (Mar 20, 2012)

Dante said:


> Progressive nitwits and populist mobs want to lynch the guy before all the facts are even presented. gawd bless America. The black community hates gays and people who carry legal guns.
> 
> Maybe, aaaaaaaaaaaaaah, maybe if gays armed themselves they could get the cons to support their issues?



You are in the Yidnar realm of stupidity.


----------



## Salt Jones (Mar 20, 2012)

uptownlivin90 said:


> GuyPinestra said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...



Life is a political issue. Choose your side and fight for your team, because I guarantee you the other side is.


----------



## Old Rocks (Mar 20, 2012)

I have been a gun owner all of my life. And have packed on many occasions, once even came very close to shooting someone in a case of clear self defense. 

The fact that Zimmermann confronted this kid for only looking suspicious, then shot him, tells all that needs to be said. The police told him to cease and desist, he did not. The boy had no way of knowing what kind of person Zimmermann was, only that he was being followed by a very large man that was aggressive. They fought, the very large man was getting the worst of it, and shot the kid. 

But here we have a bunch of fruitcakes spinning it as self defense. A clear case of murder is what it is.


----------



## Ariux (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> The fact that Zimmermann confronted this kid for only looking suspicious, then shot him, tells all that needs to be said.



It's not a fact that Zimmerman confronted the black.

The story, that I have no reason to doubt, is that the black jumped Zimmerman, and Zimmerman shot in self-defense.   I have no reason to think that Zimmerman would have confronted the black, given that the police were on their way and given that the police told him not follow the black.  Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head, which strongly supports his story that the black jumped him from behind.  Zimmerman had no shooting motive except self-defense.



> But here we have a bunch of fruitcakes spinning it as self defense. A clear case of murder is what it is.



Your racial hatred and delusions are not facts.  You don't have a case that this isn't self-defense.


----------



## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that Zimmermann confronted this kid for only looking suspicious, then shot him, tells all that needs to be said.
> ...


*
exactly:*



Dante said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> > This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.
> ...


----------



## Ariux (Mar 20, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Is actually hispanic.
> ...



It's standard to identify Hispanics as whites when they're accused of attacking non-whites.


----------



## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> The fact that Zimmermann confronted this kid for only looking suspicious, then shot him, tells all that needs to be said.



that is not verifiable. I can confront (whatever that means in any given situation) and shoot a man. Maybe that man was trying to rob and kill me. 

Your report explains nothing that would warrant a condemnation or arrest of the man.


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...



not true. Mexicans and Blacks have had a running turf war in LA. No one refers to it as white/black

next


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



I suppose the last name Zimmerman made the racist left go bonkers...

I wonder how those racist fucks will spin this one...

We already got Jesse and Al bringing down the whole black KKK Jenna 6 team...

Will the DOJ charge the Hispanic wanna b cop with a hate crime?? naw ...

Meanwhile in other news - a white kid was set on fire by a black kid but that doesn't make news...

Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy' - New York Daily News

"that's what you get white boy."

No media coverage...


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Sounds like a cse of self defense.



Since when does self defense involve chasing after someone who is running away from you?


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The State wants to uphold their stand your ground law.



Zimmerman lost any claim to a stand your ground defense when he chased after the kid who was running away from him, against the instructions of police no less.


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a cse of self defense.
> ...



chase? even the girlfriend says the young man confronted the Hispanic guy asking him "why are you following me?"  

where did you get the term 'chase' from?

Al Tawana Brawley Sharpton?  
*
Stop the hate! Stop the lies! Stop Al Sharpton's Lynch Mob!  Justice! Justice! Justice!*


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The State wants to uphold their stand your ground law.
> ...



chased? even the girlfriend says the young man confronted the Hispanic guy asking him "why are you following me?"

where did you get the term 'chased' from?

Al _Tawana Brawley _Sharpton? 

*Stop the hate! Stop the lies! Stop Al Sharpton's Lynch Mob! Justice! Justice! Justice!*


----------



## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

If the young innocent teenage boy victim asked "why are you following me?" does that not mean that the murdering racist pursued and gunned down his prey like the vicious murdering killer he is?

I want his ass to fry...yesterday.


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Meanwhile in other news - a white kid was set on fire by a black kid but that doesn't make news...
> 
> Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy' - New York Daily News
> 
> ...



Which is exactly why you were able to provide a link, and why 89 results pop up on google news search.


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> chase? even the girlfriend says the young man confronted the Hispanic guy asking him "why are you following me?"
> 
> where did you get the term 'chase' from?



No, the girlfriend said that Zimmerman caught up with Martin and cornered him, at which point Martin asked Zimmerman that question.  Her account is consistent with Zimmerman's on admission to chasing after Martin.  So that's where I get the word "chase" from.  Zimmerman's own account.


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Meanwhile in other news - a white kid was set on fire by a black kid but that doesn't make news...
> ...



No major media coverage racist fuck..

A fucking blurb, a buried story.

You didn't know about that case until now but this case is MAJOR....

Funny how that works..

Racist motherfucker...


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Apparently a black life is worth more than a white life to racist progressives...

Kinda like when the media here in Chicago ignored the white woman who was raped then thrown out an 8th story project window by a - guess what? - black criminal murderer who was living on the dole... 

I suppose the black idiot was only mimicing the idiot 12-year-old that dropped a baby out of a high-rise project window a decade earlier only a couple projects down...


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> A fucking blurb, a buried story.
> 
> You didn't know about that case until now but this case is MAJOR....



Yet, someone else provided a link to CNN earlier.  



> Racist motherfucker...



I'm a racist for pointing out that your claims are factually incorrect and were directly contradicted by your own actions?  It seems that "racism" is the new "fascism."  It's a word thrown around thoughtlessly, to refer to anything whatsoever the speaker wishes to attach a negative connotation to, and has effectively no meaningful definition anymore.


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Eye witness observed Zimmerman straddling a prone Martin on the ground at time of shooting.

I'm sure that Martin's kick-ass kung-fu skills still made him a threat, even in that position.


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > chase? even the girlfriend says the young man confronted the Hispanic guy asking him "why are you following me?"
> ...



_boo hoo hoo,_ why did the kid run from an old fat Hispanic male? He confronted the Hispanic male and initiated a verbal confrontation that led to his death.

tragic yes. a crime? not by my book - so far. more evidence would be needed that showed a crime actually happened.

--

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"

*Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > A fucking blurb, a buried story.
> ...



Show me how much the media is paying attention to this story...


----------



## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

What if someone later finds Zimmerman to be suspicious and pumps some lead into his back claiming self-defense.

Wouldn't that be something?


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Eye witness observed Zimmerman straddling a prone Martin on the ground at time of shooting.
> 
> I'm sure that Martin's kick-ass kung-fu skills still made him a threat, even in that position.



witness to aftermath?  LOL     they saw nothing but a snap shot in time.


zimmerman didn't seem guilty of anything according to these people


----------



## Wry Catcher (Mar 21, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



Point?


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> _boo hoo hoo,_ why did the kid run from an old fat Hispanic male? He confronted the Hispanic male and initiated a verbal confrontation that led to his death.



The fact that you are incapable of being honest is pathetic.  Zimmerman himself said that Martin was running away from him.  Why do you insist on ignoring this fact?


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

MarcATL  is obviously just trolling to start shit. I won't reply to him. what a douche.

but if you want to see a thread go haywire ... reply to the dipshit.


----------



## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> What if someone later finds Zimmerman to be suspicious and pumps some lead into his back claiming self-defense.
> 
> Wouldn't that be something?





			
				Dante said:
			
		

> Hi, you have received -122 reputation points from Dante.
> Reputation was given for *this* post.
> 
> Comment:
> ...




Tsk, tsk, tsk.


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > _boo hoo hoo,_ why did the kid run from an old fat Hispanic male? He confronted the Hispanic male and initiated a verbal confrontation that led to his death.
> ...



running away? what does that mean? people can walk away and others say they are running away.

the young man confronted Zimmerman and started a verbal confrontation that got out of hand. fact


----------



## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


No one is reporting this made-up "confrontation" but you liar.

Where's your links?


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> running away? what does that mean? people can walk away and others say they are running away.



Well, let's see.....Zimmerman can be heard breathing heavily on the 911 tapes while in pursuit, with loud wind sounds on top of that, indicating a high speed of travel.  Would suggest that Zimmerman was himself running in order to keep up with Martin, whom Zimmerman said was running.



> the young man confronted Zimmerman and started a verbal confrontation that got out of hand. fact



Pathetic.  The fact is that Zimmerman chased Martin down.  Zimmerman admits this.  Why can't you?


----------



## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

No one can produce a single report, not one single, solitary shred of evidence that states that Martin "confronted" Zimmerman.

The fact that we all know is true is that Zimmerman, a big fat heavy man gunned down Martin, an unarmed teenage boy in cold blood, with nothing but _Skittles _and tea in his hands.


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> ...



more hysterical rantings deleted -- for the sake of the children.


the girlfriend said the young man confronted the Hispanic guy who was following him - no crime there - 

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"

*Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

---

According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.* so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.  

where is the crime?


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

if a crime has been committed I would want Zimmerman charged and if found guilty punished.  but where is the crime?


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

This Zimmerman guy was an authoritarian nut..

The guy called the cops 22 other times reporting "suspicious people."

I probably would have called the cops on him.

"yeah there is some weird dude following me."


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

IMO, it wasn't "race related" it was "dumb shit related."


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> This Zimmerman guy was an authoritarian nut..
> 
> The guy called the cops 22 other times reporting "suspicious people."
> 
> ...



yep. But I would have gotten in an argument with him but NEVER a physical confrontation. People like him can get crazy paranoid. But if he said wait for the police, I would, just to find out who he was.

but the teen being a teen, looks like he sized the guy up, had girlfriend on phone and said let's go at it. 

who knows?

and if the guy only asked me what I was doing, I'd tell him, visiting. now fuck off.


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> IMO, it wasn't "race related" it was "dumb shit related."



thing is when progressives and other nitiwts hear us say it's not race related as far as we can see, they hear us saying we defend white racism.


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > This Zimmerman guy was an authoritarian nut..
> ...



I have a gun too...

None of this nonsense would ever happen where I live...


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



In my neighborhood I am for the first time in my life, afraid of a group within the PD. The city has a tough rep. Snoop Dawg's city. I live downtown, so carrying would get me killed either by criminals or cops. 

but I choose to live dangerously.


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Oh yeah?? you think I like cops???

Here is my dad getting tased...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lupF3XCtFzk]Tased Execution Style at Home... (Full Video) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## copsnrobbers (Mar 21, 2012)

On the surface it does appear that the shooter is wrong. The surface is always a starting point. I get the feeling there is a much deeper issue to this episode than what we have heard. 

The media will circle jerk us as long as they can. They want the viewers watching. This kind of misery sells ads.

This investigation has just begun. They aren't telling anyone anything. Especially the fat jewish hyspanic white guy and the media.

I think there's a strong possiblity the fat guy and the kid knew each other.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 21, 2012)

That is pulled from your asshole. What suggests a "strong possibility" to you?


----------



## mudwhistle (Mar 21, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> 
> Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. . When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, .
> 
> ...



One of my buddies got 7 stitches from some 20 year old punk that hit him in the forehead with a can of spray paint he was carrying around inside his baggy pants.

He made the mistake of wearing a cowboy hat in eye-shot of this trouble-maker.

We beat the crap out of him and his other two buddies. A crowd of folks sitting at an outside bar were watching it and when I stopped stomping this punk's ass I heard them cheering us. 

I guess those kids were well known in the area.


----------



## J.E.D (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Liar


----------



## LoneLaugher (Mar 21, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> ...



Yeah......you really are a tough guy. A real internet tough guy.


----------



## mudwhistle (Mar 21, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...



Ditto


----------



## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



Lied to the Police, obstructed Justice, son is a thief - - - - - he deserved it, your Dad provoked the whole incident. 

The Officer stated he had an Active Warrant, your Dad did not comply. Then, he resisted arrest.


----------



## rdean (Mar 21, 2012)

GuyPinestra said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > Only a Republican can listen to a black child screaming in terror for help and hear a "threat" that needs a good shooting.
> ...



Come on.  You know that George Zimmerman is a Republican.  He has to be.


----------



## rdean (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that Zimmermann confronted this kid for only looking suspicious, then shot him, tells all that needs to be said.
> ...



Perfect.  See, this is what I'm talking about.  Someone who is honest.  Even when the tapes show a kid screaming for help and begging for his life, it's he who is the aggressor.  You guys are priceless.  You represent.


----------



## rdean (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



And a another one.  Gotta love it.


----------



## rdean (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a cse of self defense.
> ...



If the person you're chasing is black, obviously.  Seems to be what these right wingers are saynig.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2012)

rdean said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...



Ariux is a racist fucking retard with his head jammed up his ass all the way to his shoulders, so is that faggot Dante.


----------



## Old Rocks (Mar 21, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> ...



Oh Gawd!!! another internet tough guy.


----------



## mudwhistle (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > running away? what does that mean? people can walk away and others say they are running away.
> ...



You don't breath hard when you're scared or excited7????

Btw, I heard no heavy breathing in the rexordings. 

You must be making this up.


----------



## mudwhistle (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that Zimmermann confronted this kid for only looking suspicious, then shot him, tells all that needs to be said.
> ...



Grass stains on your back and bleeding from the back of the head usually indicates a fall, not an attack from behind.


----------



## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...


ZOMG!!! 

The family that goes to jail together, stays together.

Why they had a warrant for your arrest dude?

You guys are some kinda awesome.

LoL!!


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 21, 2012)

Dante said:


> the girlfriend said the young man confronted the Hispanic guy who was following him



Factually untrue.  Why do you keep lying?



> where is the crime?



In killing a person for no good reason.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > the girlfriend said the young man confronted the Hispanic guy who was following him
> ...



Dante is a fucking racist idiot, he will be on the side of the shooter no matter what.


----------



## copsnrobbers (Mar 21, 2012)

I think both side of this thread have valid arguments. But, it's to early on to decide if there is a case here. I suspect the two of them knew one another.


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



My brother was charged with "failure to take measures to return property" NOT THEFT..

We don't steal - we weren't raised that way..

My brother found an Ipod and 6 months later pawned it because it was a piece of shit.

NO - you see - the POLICE LIE...

The police lie so fucking much that the prosecutors closing argument was LITERALLY VERBATIM: "FIND THIS GUY GUILTY OR HE WILL SUE."

My dad wanted to see the fucking warrant - that's it - that's all.

Using the logic of the general public - I could show up to your house dressed as a cop or an official of "authority" claim I have a warrant for your arrest, then abduct you.

The shit has happened before..

We have a web site that explains the whole event and its going back up tonight..


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



That's not me, that's my brother...

Pretty much what happened was my brother found an Ipod, pawned it 6 months later - he gets a call from the cops telling him to come down to the police department to discuss the issue, he pretty much tells the cop "finders keepers" and several months later these storm troopers show up at our door claiming they have a non-existent warrant...

Thats what happened..

They were trying to arrest him so he could formally be charged on "FAILURE TO TAKE MEASURES TO RETURN PROPERTY."

The Goddamn Ipod in question wasn't even reported stolen - it was reported MISSING..

Not only that, but when my brother found out the Ipod was seized from the pawn shop he actually went back and paid them the money out of guilt of their loss..

The cops are fucking lunatics and the system is fucked..

All this shit over a fucking Ipod.


----------



## BlindBoo (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> IMO, it wasn't "race related" it was "dumb shit related."



Dumb shit is right but also race!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNI5CA5jijw]Trayvon Martin 911 Call - Did George Zimmerman Say &#39;F*ng Coons&#39;? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



 _FOUND AN IPOD. _

Your story before was that it was found in the store in a bathroom stall and so he was accused of trying to steal it. I have a great memory. 

You guys seem a bit loony in that video.

two drops of little blood and the woman screeeaming "heee's bleeeeding! they'd probably taze a baby!!"

your brother going "constitution! constitution!!"




meanwhile, as you admitted above - he was charged. 

so you lemme know what rights were violated - did the warrant not exist? I'll bet.


----------



## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

lmaooooo

"theyre trying to kill him!!!"


aaahahaha. wowza


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

BlindBoo said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, it wasn't "race related" it was "dumb shit related."
> ...



Funny how the young turks don't give a fuck about the white kid that was set on fire..

That is without question a "hate crime."

No they focus on a questionable motive that those fucking retards can only speculate on.

The media bias is outright insulting...

Not to mention I love how this Zimmerman guy is painted as "white" because it suits the media's racist agenda (because they jumped the gun)...

All this shit the media plays is downright disgusting...

These days the media views themselves as promoters of an agenda - NOT tellers of the truth.

The young turks are blatant propagandists and liars - their goal is to promote an agenda.


----------



## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...


LoL!!!

You guys are awesome man.

I gotta give you points for posting something so personal.

I have some kinda new found respect for you.

LOL!!!

I'm laughing b/c nobody got hurt.


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



How fucking dumb are you??

My brother FOUND AN IPOD IN A BATHROOM THEN THIS SHIT HAPPENS..

YES I KNOW ITS HARD TO BELIEVE, THE REACTION IS IRRATIONAL...

Some people just cant get it through their fucking head that the cops were insane here, and certainly overreaching with their authority.

No, the warrant DIDN'T EXIST - that is the most fucked up part..

Now go get butt-fucked by a cop..


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



If the warrant didn't exist have you ever thought about suing the police department? I would.


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...



Yeah I know - My dad got tyrannical dicks on his jury just like you and GT..

You think that shit is funny..

Yeah? well wait until it happens to you motherfucker...

Oh and if you keep voting the way you do IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.. 

Then you will be singing a different story..


----------



## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...





So, how much did you win on the settlement then, if the Warrant didn't exist?

You did sue right? And prove that it didn't exist?

You dopes are the class-a cop provokers - cameras all around just asking for it, posting on message boards about "police state this" and socialism that all the time, etc. etc. shit makes me giggle. 

my aDVIce is to go out of the house. turn off the news and political message boards.

forget about politics completely, altogether. your brain isn't strong enough to stay hinged and handle it.


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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> > G.T. said:
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There is a lawsuit pending...


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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First off the cops were outside of my parents home for a good 5-10 minuets before they even pulled the fucking camera out. Second, it's a good idea to document police contact for your own records. Third my dad owns his own audio/video business - why wouldn't he have cameras??? He would want evidence if someone broke into his house - not to mention MANY PEOPLE have cameras for security.

I mean you would think someone who installs security cameras for a living (among other AV stuff) would have security cameras themselves.


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## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Yeah I know - My dad got tyrannical dicks on his jury just like you and GT..
> 
> You think that shit is funny..
> 
> ...


Nick, I'm actually on your side on this.

I wasn't laughing at you and/or your family per se, just laughing at the situation, mainly the fact that you actually posted this thing. Something so personal, and you are all so serious about...like an entire family of Tea Partiers....<--- see, I even used the proper term.

Chill fam...I come in peace.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah I know - My dad got tyrannical dicks on his jury just like you and GT..
> ...



Well, this may be personal but it's a perfect example of how fucked up the police are.

The police in my county have a good track record of abusing their power to the point of killing people and framing others (when they know they have the wrong guy).

Look up Lake County Illinois...

The cops just beat a guy to death and the prosecutors are refusing to charge the cops with ANY CRIME, meanwhile the coroner found that the beating contributed to the guys death.

In my county the cops get their jollies off playing storm trooper. It's tase and beat first and ask questions later. 

This isn't even a high crime county...

A small misunderstanding can turn into a cop killing someone really fast around here - it has happened several times.

If you cry Bill of Rights or civil liberties around here during police contact these cowboys will crack you over your heads with their clubs, then tase you - then pretend to be justified in doing such while they pathologically lie and purger themselves.

The cops around here are seriously rogue cowboys that do whatever the fuck they want and they're never held accountable for their actions, so they get more authoritarian.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Dante said:
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he was obstructing the officers in the execution of an active warrant. He put his hand on an officer. He got tazed for his trouble.

So?


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

I mean how would someone feel if the cops came to your door, broke into your house and tased you??

Meanwhile your wife thinks you have been shot because there is blood pooling out your back?

I stand for the constitution - that was totally out of line.

The tyrant republicans apparently want a police state - because in their mind the police can do no wrong. Really dumb shits??? come to Illinois - they'll beat your ass if you look at them wrong or have the audacity to point to the Bill of Rights..


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## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> I mean how would someone feel if the cops came to your door, broke into your house and tased you??
> 
> Meanwhile your wife thinks you have been shot because there is blood pooling out your back?
> 
> ...



This kind of thing happens alot in bad neighborhoods.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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> > Dante said:
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A) He didn't touch that motherfucker - that bully actually grabbed my dads arm and put it on him to justify his bullshit tyranny. Not to mention he punched my dad in the back of his head in the video and knocked him out cold.

B) You must show an individual a warrant - that fat fuck "claimed" he had a warrant - he didn't show it.

C) The warrant didn't exist in the first place.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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Sue the pants off those motherfuckers Nick!


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > I mean how would someone feel if the cops came to your door, broke into your house and tased you??
> ...


.

My parents neighborhood isn't bad...

The cops around here are just crazy...

Remember this insane shit is over a MISSING (NOT STOLEN BUT MISSING IPOD) That my brother found in a fucking Panara Bread bathroom..


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> I mean how would someone feel if the cops came to your door, broke into your house and tased you??
> If I obstructed the officers in the execution of an active warrant, I'd expect to be tased. Also, no one broke in... the door was opened from the inside, according to the video posted.
> 
> Meanwhile your wife thinks you have been shot because there is blood pooling out your back?
> ...



My comments in BLUE above.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Not to mention the Ipod was a first gen Ipod - the thing was a broken piece of shit... I saw it first hand. I remember asking my brother if it worked when he had it (because I was interested in what type of music the guy who lost it liked) and he was like NO it doesn't work..

Meanwhile we all had the newest Ipods..

Quite frankly I don't even understand why the pawn shop gave my brother a dime for such a piece of shit Ipod...

I wouldn't have bought it for a dollar - it was literally junk...


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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see above comments.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > I mean how would someone feel if the cops came to your door, broke into your house and tased you??
> ...



They didn't have a warrant...

My dad asked to SEE THE WARRANT and he was denied.

No warrant - no son - it is that simple.

My dad didn't do anything wrong - when the cops got fed up with my dads patriotism the asshole grabbed my dads hand and pushed it towards him.

If you can show me where he pushed the cop - then you will see he his hand was grabbed first and pushed towards the 250 lb fat ass.

Oh and if it matters the same cop that pulled that bullshit is also the same cop being sued for gross interrogations and literally the mastermind behind the Jerry Hobbs Cleared: Dad Charged In Girls' Murder To Go Free, DNA Evidence Links Another Man case.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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see above


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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I cant sue anyone - I have nothing to do with any of this - I wasn't even there.

My dad and brother are suing them tho.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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The warrant DOES NOT EXIST LITERALLY..


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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and they will have to prove that in court.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Do idiots really believe cops can just take you off to jail for no reason??

If there is a warrant for my arrest I would A) want to READ WHAT FOR, B) would want a copy for my own records..

I suppose that is too much to ask...


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Do idiots really believe cops can just take you off to jail for no reason??
> 
> If there is a warrant for my arrest I would A) want to READ WHAT FOR, B) would want a copy for my own records..
> 
> I suppose that is too much to ask...



It is apparently too much to ask that you understand that legally, the arrest warrant does not HAVE to be shown to you.


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## ducks102 (Mar 21, 2012)

1. who care what color he is
2. he is half white
3. it white cops covering which the main story


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
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> > Conservative said:
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The case is over, and my dads idiot attorney didn't even make that argument because according to them this was a "slam dunk case" until the prosecutor said "find this man guilty or he will sue."

My dad hired a bunch of arrogant ambulance chasers (who believed they had a multi-million dollar lawsuit on their hands) who were so arrogant in court it was pathetic.

They weren't even criminal court attorneys..


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Do idiots really believe cops can just take you off to jail for no reason??
> ...



And that is illegal.........

It is called a Fifth Amendment violation..


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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I meant, now that the case is over, if your dad still claims there never was a warrant, he has to prove it in court by having the case reopened, or by suing the police.

Also, for you to talk about arrogant with the attitude shown by the man in that video... it is almost laughable.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
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scroll back a few posts. ARREST WARRANTS need not be show. Unreasonable search and seizure doesnt apply here.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
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> > Conservative said:
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Illinois didn't take his appeal despite the evidence..

No, now the county is being sued...


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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and if they find in his favor, more power to him. If not, oh well. The end result is that the man in the video handled the situation poorly, to say the least.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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> > Conservative said:
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Are you ignorant to the constitution??

Yes warrants damn well do need to be shown..........

Sorry to explain that the Bill of Rights cannot be contradicted and the Bill of Rights is the basis of law - hence the supreme law of the land.


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## Mustang (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
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Who's bathroom was it?


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
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It was a public bathroom - it was in a restaurant.

His girlfriend was working there, my bro was hanging out talking to her goes into the PUBLIC bathroom and finds an Ipod.

It's not exactly like first gen Ipods have nameplates...


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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You apparently are. And of existing legal precedent as well.

You're telling me that nearly every arrest made in this country is illegal, because the arrest warrant was not shown to the arrested person?

You really wanna go that way, Sparky?

BTW...


Mr.Nick said:


> And that is illegal.........
> 
> It is called a Fifth Amendment violation..


You meant 4th amendment, not 5th.
So much for YOUR constitutional prowess.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

The case is very simple (and insane)..

Brother finds Ipod in a public bathroom, owner of ipod reports the object MISSING, brother pawns ipod 6 months later, pawn shop gets audited and ipod is found to be missing, cops call brother, brother says finders keepers, 5 months later storm troopers show up with an alleged "arrest warrant", storm troopers violate Bill of Rights, storm troopers invade home tase dad and arrest brother.

Yeah, it is that simple...


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## Mustang (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
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Does whoever owns the Ipod agree that's what happened, or are the circumstances and facts in dispute?  I ask that question for a good reason.  And that's because it's extremely common for a person who takes something that doesn't belong to him to lie about the circumstances.  In fact, the most common reason that people lie is to escape punishment.  Everyone does it at one time or another.  

So, have you ever considered the possibility that you're brother isn't telling the truth?


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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> > Conservative said:
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Serving a warrant is a different story.

You can't walk up to a house and serve a warrant without the warrant Nazi..

In one case one is being singled out and in the other is a case of circumstance..

And if I was arrested on a warrant I would certainly want a copy of the warrant while being booked... 

In this case the warrant doesn't even exist.................PERIOD


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> The case is very simple (and insane)..
> 
> Brother finds Ipod in a public bathroom, owner of ipod reports the object MISSING, brother pawns ipod 6 months later, pawn shop gets audited and ipod is found to be missing, cops call brother, brother says finders keepers, 5 months later storm troopers show up with an alleged "arrest warrant", storm troopers violate Bill of Rights, storm troopers invade home tase dad and arrest brother.
> 
> Yeah, it is that simple...



They deserved what they got in the Video. It's that simple. 

If you're told that there's a Warrant, you have to abide and prove there is or isn't one later. That's a fact.

The guy who answered the door acted like a fucking loon, and Cops can't take chances with loons, such as the guy (already being uncooperative and loony) slamming the door in their face to go "get something."

Yea, no. How about we dont risk this whackadoodle going to get a shot-gun, even if it happens to ACTUALLY only be a stick of gum. That's retarded. 

The guy who said "finders keepers" is also behaving retarded.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
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We don't even know who the guy who lost the Ipod is...Through investigation apparently he is some guy who lives 2 towns over (if it is the right guy)..

A guy just left his Ipod in a bathroom accidentally and my brother found it.

The Ipod was reported missing - this is the key here - it was reported missing..

People lose shit all the time..

It's not exactly like it was a wallet w/ID.. It was an Ipod..


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## Mustang (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> The case is very simple (and insane)..
> 
> Brother finds Ipod in a public bathroom, owner of ipod reports the object MISSING, brother pawns ipod 6 months later, pawn shop gets audited and ipod is found to be missing, cops call brother, brother says finders keepers, 5 months later storm troopers show up with an alleged "arrest warrant", storm troopers violate Bill of Rights, storm troopers invade home tase dad and arrest brother.
> 
> Yeah, it is that simple...



Finders keepers?  What kind of BS is that?  Once the rightful owner is known, if you're brother doesn't turn it over, he is guilty of theft.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > The case is very simple (and insane)..
> ...



Good, maybe I will take the official police badge I found, show up at your door and claim you have a warrant - throw you in my caprice then............

Oh while we're at it we can burn the Bill of Rights...


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > The case is very simple (and insane)..
> ...



No one knew who the owner was dummy..

6 months later the junk was pawned, I assume the pawn shop was audited by the cops and only THEN THEY FIGURED OUT THE OWNER IDIOT...

How the hell do you think they found my brother??? 

Because he pawned it with his ID...

Nothing was stolen, nothing was reported stolen...

How can my brother give the fucking Ipod back when it's already in police possession??

What my brother did do is go down to the pawn shop and reimburse them for their loss out of honesty..


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
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He wasn't there to serve a warrant, he was there to make an arrest, and was TOLD the arresstee was in the home.

As for the warrant not existing, again, court.


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
> 
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> > Mr.Nick said:
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Yea, that'll work slick - and then you can go to jail for:

impersonating a police officer
kidnapping

(see - there's already laws against those things, dipshit)


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
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> > Conservative said:
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He was not there to make an arrest he was there to serve a non-existent arrest warrant. 

Do you think this happened in the span of 2 days??

Do you think some kid my brother knows is accusing him of stealing his Ipod?

That tyrant cop was there to serve a non-existent warrant... 

Imagine finding a 10 dollar bill on the ground and 10 months later there are 5 cops at your door attempting to serve a warrant which a) doesn't even exist and b) they cant show you..

What the fuck would you say dummy?


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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> > G.T. said:
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Which is why I wouldn't do it dummy - because I'm not a criminal. However, most criminals wouldn't give a fuck. That scenario has happened before numerous times. As a matter of fact Chicago cops were just indicted for robbing gangster drug dealers while using the same moniker.


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
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You're not getting it.

You dont live with the threat of "people faking to be cops" simply because of warrant or no warrant. Your point was irrelevant.

A fake badge maker can make a fake warrant, and a KIDNAPPER can just use "gunpoint."

Your argument is infantile.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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I'd say you have a lot of issues... anger management being chief. A penchant for absurdity being next.


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## Mustang (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Mustang said:
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Something's not adding up.  Where does reimbursing the pawn shop come in?  That's stands in stark contrast from telling the police that this was an issue of finders keepers.

Here's the bottom line.  Once the rightful owner was found, your brother had an obligation to either return the item or reimburse the pawn shop since I assume the pawn shop owners were not allowed to profit from any merchandise that shows up as either reported lost or stolen and was therefore not legally your brother's property to sell.  He definitely should have cleared up any misunderstanding with the police instead of just blowing them off which is what it sounds like he did.

Personally, whenever I find something of value, I either turn it in to someone with the understanding that I can claim it later if the owner fails to come forward, or I put an ad on Craigslist.  Maybe that's just me.  

You're brother probably could have kept that Ipod forever without any repercussions because, let's face it, who's gonna know?  But once your brother decided to sell the Ipod to a pawn shop (as opposed to a private party), and gave his ID as a condition of pawning the item, he was basically setting up the circumstances for something like this to happen.  And once the Ipod was discovered to be reported lost and the police became involved, your brother should have bent over backwards to make sure everything was cleared up even IF it ended up costing him money in the process.  To me, it sounds like your brother's childish attitude set everything in motion that ended happening later, and he pulled the rest of your family into the mess, as well.

If the police didn't have a valid warrant, AND if your father didn't put his hands on the cop, you guys have a valid complaint.  But your whole family's attitude about the original matter of the Ipod is little more than a rationalization.  Your brother made this all happen.  You should all try to face that fact.


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
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> > Conservative said:
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He gets that a ton on here.

Must be us. 

Then - - you see the video and you're like - "ahhhhh, elle ohhh elle."


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
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and you can then serve time in jail for impersonating a police officer. I see we have to add stupidity to your list of issues.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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My point is very relevant.........

Using your tyrannical logic one could impersonate a cop and rob you, kill you or rob you and kill you under the ruse of having a warrant and under the gullibility of those on the other side of the farce warrant... 

Crooked cops use the "I have a warrant" bullshit all the time here in Illinois just to rob drug dealers - many have been caught. They don't only use it on drug dealers they use that shit to rape woman..


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
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This might be the dumbest comment I've read on here in weeks. And you're competing with some fuggin AIR heads.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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Do you think those who would give a fuck??? that is why they're criminals idiot.

If going to prison was a deterrent to crime we wouldn't have any.


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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and if demanding a warrant is a deterrant to kidnapping, than your point isn't retarded.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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Feds: Two Chicago cops took orders from Latin Kings - Chicago Sun-Times


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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That is why you ask to see the fucking warrant idiot - not only that but it is your Fifth Amendment right.......

You can disagree all you want like a tyrant but that would just make you wrong.

You have the right to know a) what you're being charged with and b) the accuser and c) the judge who signed the warrant.

You just cant arrest people because "the warrant is in the computer." Anyone who believes that is a justifiable excuse to attack an innocent man for standing up for the Fifth Amendment is NO GODDAMN CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL - THEY"RE TYRANTS.


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

you dont know the law, you're ignorant of it.

and secondly - demanding a warrant doesn't prevent a kidnapping. that's a retarded point. sorry you just cant see that but uh, I know why tbh.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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My brother felt bad when the pawn shop was out of money - he did that out of his own free will (honestly I think my parents pushed him to do it, being small business owners themselves)..

Do you not understand my brother didn't have the fucking Ipod and the cops had it because it was pawned??? The Ipod hadn't been in his possession for 6 months.

I don't have any idea how to be any more simple than that.

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE WARRANT WAS NOT VALID...

Do I have to write the aforementioned 100 times like Bart Simpson???

People here are either retarded or just like to argue. That or they're pro-cops to the point they're in denial that cops could ever do anything wrong..


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> you dont know the law, you're ignorant of it.
> 
> and secondly - demanding a warrant doesn't prevent a kidnapping. that's a retarded point. sorry you just cant see that but uh, I know why tbh.





Really??



As a libertarian I resent that notion. I've read more law books than you have read books in general.

I probably would have been a lawyer but that would have fucked my morals and put them through a cheese grader......

Don't even attempt to tell me what I know...

You're so dumb you don't even understand why I fly the flag upside down.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > you dont know the law, you're ignorant of it.
> ...



yet still you confused the 4th and 5th amendments earlier in the thread. How is that?


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > you dont know the law, you're ignorant of it.
> ...



ahhahaha

you lemme know the next time a criminal impersonating an officer who wants to kidnap you....................leaves you alone when you ask for a warrant   dope


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

The entire modern classical liberal philosophy is based on law...

We ask ourselves and ponder; "what can the government legally do within contexts of the Constitution", "what limitations does the government have."

Meanwhile the rest of society knee-jerk kicks our rights and liberties to the curb - hence freedom.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
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> > G.T. said:
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I'm not confused you're confused...


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Using some of your logic "authority" can pick a man up, try him and hang him without the individual knowing what exactly he is being accused of...

What the fuck is this the Salem Witch Trial era??

You don't need to explain and supply documentation to a man why he is being arrested and on what charge?

Really?

What a wonderful backwards-ass world..


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Good shoot.  Physical / forensic evidence and eyewitness corrorborate.

PD and DA have been through it with fine tooth comb = no arrest.

Let grand jury decide and be the bearer of news.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Good shoot.  Physical / forensic evidence and eyewitness corrorborate.
> 
> PD and DA have been through it with fine tooth comb = no arrest.
> 
> Let grand jury decide and be the bearer of news.


'


Where did you learn the State attorney's office has been through this with a fine tooth comb? I have read it was just turned over to the stare in the last few days? The Sheriff's offense spent an hour or so, let the killer go after determining "self defense".


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
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nope, still you who is confused...



Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
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> > Mr.Nick said:
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you claim here that not showing you an arrest warrant is a 5th amendment violation.

Here is a link to the 5th amendment text on wiki...
Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation


none of that applies to your not seeing an arrest warrant.

Now, the 4th amendment might at least have been more relevant to your comment...
Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


...but it still does not say that you are required to be SHOWN an arrest warrant upon arrest.

You confused the 5th and 4th amendments.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Good shoot.  Physical / forensic evidence and eyewitness corrorborate.
> ...



That is not how it works.   PD is not the determinor or arbitrator of self-defense it involves consultation of their counsel.....DA.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...




I refer to the prosecution as SA, PD I thought meant Sheriff's department. Where are the opinions of the public defender AND prosecutor? It just got turned over TO the prosecutor a few days ago.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...




Assistant State Attorney Pat Whitaker told the students it would take several weeks to look at the case, but that the "investigation of the Sanford police needs to be greatly supplemented," Jasmine Rand, the FAMU professor, said after the meeting.

Justice Department, FBI to probe Florida teen's death - CNN

The State Attorney's office said it would take WEEKS to go through the evidence; of course the Public Defender's office isn't involved yet: NO CHARGES. Florida uses the words "State Attorney".


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Was a police department = PD

The decision to not arrest has been turned over to Feds.

Will take weeks for review of PD/SA actions.

April 10 to be exact for grand jury.


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## Sallow (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Good shoot.  Physical / forensic evidence and eyewitness corrorborate.
> 
> PD and DA have been through it with fine tooth comb = no arrest.
> 
> Let grand jury decide and be the bearer of news.



A kid with no record, not involved in any crime was shot.

It's sickening that anyone thinks this was a "good shoot".

Human beings are not sport.


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## Sallow (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...



Meanwhile the police have no idea where the shooter is..and whether or not he's still armed.

He can very possibly do this again. One of the charges of the police is to protect the public.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Sallow said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Good shoot.  Physical / forensic evidence and eyewitness corrorborate.
> ...



Evidence demonstrates different thus far.

Arizona Iced Tea can which bashed Zimmerman's head.  What will that show when the _Sanford PD investigation is greatly supplemented _with forensic evidence on that can and of those recordings ?


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Was a police department = PD
> 
> The decision to not arrest has been turned over to Feds.
> 
> ...



Yes, it will take until 4/10 or longer. State Attorney, then the feds. Has any agency been over the facts yet?


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...




Had Zimmerman drawn his gun before that "fact"?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Was a police department = PD
> ...



Enough to pass detainment / arrest test.

Absent forensic and voice analysis which is forthcoming.


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## Sallow (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



What evidence?

At some point they got into a fight. Zimmerman, who was armed with a 9mm gun and weighing 250 lbs was chasing this kid around the neighborhood. The 911 tapes confirm that. They also confirm Zimmerman used a racial epithet and was concerned he "got away". Martin's girlfriend confirms that Zimmerman confronted him and asked what he was doing in the neighborhood. He did this without first identifying himself. Which, in this case, would have been sort of silly, since he wasn't part of any registered neighborhood watch. Zimmerman's story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You'd have to suspend belief to go with it.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



The stitches in the back of the head are indicative of an ambuscade type attack to the rear.

His testimony is he drew while his attacker was on top of him as the witness corroborated.

I suspect powder residue supported this and the PD/SA decision.


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## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> Assistant State Attorney Pat Whitaker told the students it would take several weeks to look at the case, but that the "investigation of the Sanford police needs to be greatly supplemented," Jasmine Rand, the FAMU professor, said after the meeting.
> 
> Justice Department, FBI to probe Florida teen's death - CNN



The police should arrest those protesters for attempting to incite violence, such as by holding signs saying "No peace for Sanford."  It's that kind of animal mentality that provoked the black to attack the Jewish Mr. Zimmerman, resulting in the death of the black.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Sallow said:


> What evidence?
> 
> At some point they got into a fight. Zimmerman, who was armed with a 9mm gun and weighing 250 lbs was chasing this kid around the neighborhood. The 911 tapes confirm that. They also confirm Zimmerman used a racial epithet and was concerned he "got away". Martin's girlfriend confirms that Zimmerman confronted him and asked what he was doing in the neighborhood. He did this without first identifying himself. Which, in this case, would have been sort of silly, since he wasn't part of any registered neighborhood watch. Zimmerman's story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You'd have to suspend belief to go with it.



Where do the racist cops and states attorneys covering it up enter the scene ?


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



The "arrest" test of a couple officers in the Seminole County Sheriff's Department. Not a good measure particularly if the firearm wasn't taken, and Zimmerman was not required to  take  BAC & drug tests either.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> The "arrest" test of a couple officers in the Seminole County Sheriff's Department.



Your assertion that it was investigator level decision abscent counsel is faulty.

Im sorry.

It is.


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## bodecea (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Oh my!   Is Mr. Nick playing Constitutional Expert again?    He fails everytime when he does that.


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## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Zimmerman's story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You'd have to suspend belief to go with it.



What makes absolutely no sense is accusing Zimmerman of coon hunting without a dog.  Who ever heard of anyone hunting coons without a dog?


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## Sallow (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > What evidence?
> ...



What?

What are you talking about?

By the way..the cops screwed up royally. They never gave Zimmerman an alcohol or drug test. They also kept Murphy's body for 3 days without calling the family.


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## Sallow (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Zimmerman's story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You'd have to suspend belief to go with it.
> ...



Enjoy your time here while it lasts..


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



This wasn't a search warrant it was an arrest warrant dummy..

This is a Fifth Amendment issue because it violates due process procedure.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Sallow said:


> By the way..the cops screwed up royally. They never gave Zimmerman an alcohol or drug test. They also kept Murphy's body for 3 days without calling the family.



Zimmerman did not give rise to any indication of intoxication, nor was he placed under arrest where one could be demanded.

Tell me more about Murphy's body.


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## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Where do the racist cops and states attorneys covering it up enter the scene ?



Liberals are racist bigots.  Their reasoning is based on racism and they think this is how everyone else reasons, through bigotry.  So, they are always quick to accuse others of racism.  

Look at how those racist retards reason.  They actually think Zimmerman's obesity is evidence of his guilt:  "At some point they got into a fight. Zimmerman, who was armed with a 9mm gun and weighing 250 lbs was chasing this kid around the neighborhood."  And, why would a man with a gun get start a fight with a man without one?  Why the total idiocy?  Because the only function of their argument is to support their already accepted racist conclusion.


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## Rozman (Mar 21, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



You just gotta believe a few here are so disappointed that it 
wasn't a white guy that did this.I'm sure they moved onto
something else by now.

What gets lost is that a young man had his life taken from him
by someone who needs to be locked up for a very long time.
This need to make sure that white people get fingered for 
being racist before all the facts are in is bullshit.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Where do the racist cops and states attorneys covering it up enter the scene ?
> ...



Good points but Zimmerman is still a nut.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Would anyone here attack some random kid eating Skittles having a drink while he is talking on his phone?

That is anything BUT suspicious given our youth of today...


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Would anyone here attack some random kid eating Skittles having a drink while he is talking on his phone?
> 
> That is anything BUT suspicious given our youth of today...



Do you think there is any other reasonable and plausible set of circumstances ?


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



which is why I never CALLED it a search warrant, dipshit.

The 5th amendment you cited DOES NOT APPLY in regards to an ARREST warrant not being shown to someone when they are arrested.

God.. you even FAIL at FAILing


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## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Would anyone here attack some random kid eating Skittles having a drink while he is talking on his phone?



The black looked like he was casing the neighborhood, hence the 911 call.

The skittle-eater wasn't attacked.  He did the attacking.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



You're just interpreting ideas through your own logic...

NOT PROVIDING A WARRANT IS A FIFTH AMENDMENT VIOLATION.

Never mind anything else that happened - the fact the cop said "we don't have the warrant - it's in the computer" then that idiot should have gone and got a copy...

End of story...

Everything after that is defunct..


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## IHBF (Mar 21, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.








Classic example of Irony In Politics (IIP). 

Liberal heads are spinning.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> You're just interpreting ideas through your own logic...
> 
> NOT PROVIDING A WARRANT IS A FIFTH AMENDMENT VIOLATION.
> 
> ...



I am reading the text of the 5th amendment, and NONE of it applies.

If not providing an arrest warrant at the moment of arrest is a 5th amendment violation, then almost every arrest in the US...EVER... is unconstitutional. Even YOU can't be mind bogglingly stupid enough to believe that. Can you?


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Would anyone here attack some random kid eating Skittles having a drink while he is talking on his phone?
> ...



The victim was on his cell phone while attacking? The killer had called 911; told not to follow the kid while he cursed "these a**holes" . No mention of any threat from the victim, just the killer's rage. Who is delusional enough to believe the teenager was the attacker?


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Not to mention, in what universe are legal documents housed in a computer??

Now these days the cops are like "trust me take my word for it you have a warrant."

Only a dumb republican would accept such bullshit...


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## bodecea (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



Just a troll.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > You're just interpreting ideas through your own logic...
> ...



That's because you don't have the mental capacity to click the link "due process" on your wiki page..


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



Criminal Procedure (Encyclopedia of Everyday Law) - eNotes.com


> Case Law Interpreting the Fifth Amendment
> 
> Once a suspect has been arrested or taken into CUSTODY, the rights guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment are triggered



5th amendment...POST arrest, not PRE arrest.

moron.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

bodecea said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...




Thanks Bodecea. Odd bunch, those trolls...................................


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## Mustang (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



I've never heard of a court case which set a precedent that in order to make an arrest, an arrest warrant had to be physically presented to someone first.

Search warrants?  Yes.  Arrest warrants? No.  Could that be because people who are about to get arrested aren't likely to wait for a warrant to be presented or read?


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## Salt Jones (Mar 21, 2012)

The kid was black, that's enough for him to be murdered according to a few posters on this thread. They just are too sissified to say so.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



He's confusing amendments, and refuses to admit his error.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Police have fill in the blank warrants in their pockets I gather.............................but NOT in FLORIDA.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



A) your reading comprehension sucks, B) you are retarded to the term "due process."

Strike 13

How many times have I said "due process" now???


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



you can say it as many times as you like, it doesn't suddenly make you right.

I have linked twice now to sources showing you you're wrong. Live with the shame, asshat.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

Salt Jones said:


> The kid was black, that's enough for him to be murdered according to a few posters on this thread. They just are too sissified to say so.



Salt, that is what scares me. The victim is now the the bad guy.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 21, 2012)

Eventually the libtards will give up trying to sell this shit like they did that Flucke BS.

Try dropping it.....maybe there wouldn't be so much anonymous.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Eventually the libtards will give up trying to sell this shit like they did that Flucke BS.
> 
> Try dropping it.....maybe there wouldn't be so much anonymous.



Will the pity for Dharun Ravi ever end with the hard right?


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## Ariux (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> The victim was on his cell phone while attacking?



Neither the victim nor the black were on a cell phone at the time the black attacked the Jewish Mr. Zimmerman.  The only one on the phone at the time was someone overhearing the attack, who called 911.



> The killer had called 911; told not to follow the kid



Your use of the term "killer" is prejudicial.  Please try to keep prejudice out of this.

It could be argued that Zimmerman thought the police wanted him to follow the black.  The operator told him to relay what was happening.  Following someone for the purpose of reporting to the police is no evidence of attacking someone.  

However, the black told his girlfriend on the phone "Som whitte muddafucker id on mu six.  I'm gonna fuck 'im up.  Beatch."  The girlfriend hasn't admitted to this, but you know it was said.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



I'm not wrong.... You odd precedence.

Showing up at an individuals door without a warrant is a Fifth Amendment violation.

Breaking into ones home is a Fourth Amendment violation..

Both occurred in the video.

Attacking an individual when they want to consult with an attorney - priceless..


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## mudwhistle (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Eventually the libtards will give up trying to sell this shit like they did that Flucke BS.
> ...



Hun. My nephew is black. Florida is a bad place for blacks, dependent on where you live. I was his legal guardian after his mother died. 

Like I've been saying all along......I don't go for all of this selective moral-outrage.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



coming from a man that cannot figure out that 5th amendment protections begin AFTER an arrest, I find your comments about mental capacity rather amusing.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > The victim was on his cell phone while attacking?
> ...



Yeah. because that's how you imagined it happen as you sit with your tissues and Jergen's.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

If they wanted my brother like he was "Billy the fucking kid" they could have provided a warrant.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



the police said there was an arrest warrant on file. The Supreme Court has held that the actual physical arrest warrant need not be shown immediately at the time of arrest. The 5th amendment protections begin POST arrest, not PRE arrest. No one broke into the home, as the door was opened from the inside. Had the man in the video not placed his hand on the officer (as I pointed out to you earlier) it would have gone much differently. The police did not attack the man in the video, they reacted accordingly, given his attitude and aggression.

Again, on all counts, you FAIL.


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## Mustang (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> If they wanted my brother like he was "Billy the fucking kid" they could have provided a warrant.



Really?  From what I've read, you seem to make it quite clear that your brother wasn't giving himself up, and your father denied that he was even there.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



They were serving an ARREST warrant idiot...

You have to tell people WHY they are being arrested in WRITING...

"Trust me" is for dumb republicans and Arnold Schwarzenegger - no pun intended..


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> If they wanted my brother like he was "Billy the fucking kid" they could have provided a warrant.



arrest warrants need not be provided at the time of arrest. get the fuck over it.


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## rdean (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



So are you defending the circumstances that led to the death of this kid?  Seems that way.


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also.
> 
> The asshole was out to kill somebody. Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. When you are in that positon, and you initiate the conflict, you are automatically wrong. When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, you have committed murder.



The result of Republican gun madness run wild.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



quite siply, you're a moron. You are confusing the procedures for a SEARCH warrant, with an ARREST warrant. Like your amendments, you've mixed them up.

To search, a SEARCH WARRANT must be provided at the time of search.
To arrest, an ARREST WARRANT need not be immediately provided.

Again, get over it.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 21, 2012)

Chris said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also.
> ...



He was hispanic. 

Which means he probably voted Democrap.


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...




Often law enforcement wants to surprise the suspect; rights are to be read after apprehension.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > If they wanted my brother like he was "Billy the fucking kid" they could have provided a warrant.
> ...



Yes they do via the FIFTH FUCKING AMENDMENT..

Just because a county is sued so much that they cant afford paper doesn't mean they don't have to provide the accused with the document... Which in this case didn't even exist...


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



no, they do not, as I have repeatedly shown you.

The arrest warrant must be shown to the arrestee, but it is not required at the instant of arrest. You're either too stubborn or too stupid to understand this basic fact.

Question: Are you saying that the majority of arrests in this country are unconstitutional and a violation of the 5th amendment, since the arrest warrant is not shown at the time of arrest? Yes, or no???


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



Yeah in this case an adult 25-year-old adult male with no criminal history over a LOST IPOD IN A PUBLIC BATHROOM -- without a warrant.

Yeah taxpayer dollars at work.

Embarrass the constitution, tase a guy and retrieve the perp on an alleged charge of "failure to return property."

Of course in your mind we have no Constitution... Of course until you get tased.

Look at my sig dickhead - I believe it applies here...


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## G.T. (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



5th amendment is for after arrest, it guarantees due process.

4th amendment addresses warrants.

you're wrong, you're an idiot, and you use CAPS LOCK because you LOSE YOUR SHIT WAAAY TOO EASILY, PSYCHO,


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## Salt Jones (Mar 21, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Half-Hispanics cant be prejudice towards blacks? Ever been to the Costa Chica area of Mexico.

Ever hear of Memin Pinguin?

Memín Pinguín - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



It's a good thing he didn't become a lawyer... he'd give them a bad name


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## Mustang (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



You're behaving as if your brother was the equivalent of some kind of political prisoner.  He's just a guy with bad judgement.  And it looks like it might just be hereditary.


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 21, 2012)

Ariux said:


> "At some point they got into a fight. Zimmerman, who was armed with a 9mm gun and weighing 250 lbs was chasing this kid around the neighborhood."  And, why would a man with a gun get start a fight with a man without one?  Why the total idiocy?



Zimmerman's family says he is Hispanic and he is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He may have resorted to use deadly force because he was overpowered by the teen during the confrontation which police advised him against and he should have remained inside his vehicle as he was told by authorities to stay out of trouble.


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

G.T. said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Wow, now I have two arm-chair criminal defense attorneys preaching Latin in English.

You don't know anything about criminal law...

It is ridiculous both of you BELIEVE you do...


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

5th amendment rights are commonly referred to as Miranda rights.

Know Your Miranda Rights

They do not kick in until AFTER you are in custody....meaning POST ARREST.

Nick, is a moron, and is wrong.

END.


----------



## bodecea (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> 5th amendment rights are commonly referred to as Miranda rights.
> 
> Know Your Miranda Rights
> 
> ...



So, what else is new?


----------



## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Wow, now I have two arm-chair criminal defense attorneys preaching Latin in English.
> 
> You don't know anything about criminal law...
> 
> It is ridiculous both of you BELIEVE you do...



And it's not ridiculous to believe YOU do? Putz.

You've been shown to be utterly wrong several times in this thread, with links to law firms, etc. Why should we believe YOU, not them? THEY finished law school and made something of themselves. You read some books.

You seem to be avoiding a question I asked you several times... I wonder why?


Are you stating that nearly every arrest ever made in the US is a violation of the 5th amendment, because an physical copy of the arrest warrant was not shown to the suspect immediately upon arrest? Yes, or no???


----------



## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...



My brother didn't do anything wrong.......... He found a fucking Ipod in a Goddam public restroom...

I found a fucking quarter outside the gas station today - should I turn it in???

When I was a kid I found 20 bucks on the floor of Walgreens...

This broken first gen Ipod was worth 15 bucks....


----------



## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



Are you stating that nearly every arrest ever made in the US is a violation of the 5th amendment, because an physical copy of the arrest warrant was not shown to the suspect immediately upon arrest? Yes, or no???


----------



## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



That leaves out suspects shot, knocked out, and those that do not speak English. More free space in detention centers!


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



No, I'm stating that A) in this case THERE WAS NO WARRANT, B) THERE WAS NO WARRANT and C) THERE WAS NO WARRANT..

To this day I have NOT SEEN THE FUCKING WARRANT..

I expect that the police give you the fucking warrant..

Illinois is an authoritarian state...


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## Mr.Nick (Mar 21, 2012)

If I was a police officer I would present the warrant - it would be the right thing to do...


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## WillowTree (Mar 21, 2012)

sheesh,,


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## Chris (Mar 21, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > "At some point they got into a fight. Zimmerman, who was armed with a 9mm gun and weighing 250 lbs was chasing this kid around the neighborhood."  And, why would a man with a gun get start a fight with a man without one?  Why the total idiocy?
> ...



He resorted to deadly force because he is a nutcase.

Stand your ground laws are bullshit.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 21, 2012)

Vote of no confidence for Sanford, FL police chief.


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## bodecea (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



Oh Geesh!    This sea lawyer again?


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

Salt Jones said:


> Vote of no confidence for Sanford, FL police chief.



I'll second THAT motion.


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Mr.Nick said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Nick said:
> ...



And if you were not the person being arrested, you have no legal RIGHT to see the warrant, unless you are the arrestees lawyer. ARE you the arrestees lawyer?

You can 'expect' the police to give you a million dollars in small, unmarked, non-sequential bills too. Doesn't mean the have to.

The end result here is you're pissed that the police did not behave in the manner YOU wanted them to. It has nothing to do with the law, the Constitution, etc. You're miffed because you did not get your way. Doesn't matter that the law doesn't say what YOU want it to, you want what you want, and you think the rest of the world should just fucking give it to you, you self important little snot.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Vote of no confidence for Sanford, FL police chief.
> ...



No, Really.

The Sanford City Commission passed a vote of "no confidence" in police Chief Bill Lee Wednesday night.
City Manager Norton N. Bonaparte Jr. will decide whether to ask for the chief's resignation or fire him. If Bonaparte decides to do neither, he can then be held accountable for any future problems with the chief.

Read more: Sanford Commission Votes 'No Confidence' In Chief Lee - Orlando News Story - WESH Orlando


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

salt jones said:


> peach said:
> 
> 
> > salt jones said:
> ...



thank you salt jones!


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## Peach (Mar 21, 2012)

Salt Jones said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Salt Jones said:
> ...




A lot of it is BS, like an officer is PROHIBITED from arresting someone if they claim self defense and the "physical evidence" appears to back that up. The police are not judge & jury. I note it was the CITY OF SANFORD that got DOJ involved. The picture of the young man makes it more heartbreaking every time I see it. ( Please remember, those who "feel" for the killer, the young man killed had NO record, and there have been NO reports he was anything but a 17 year high school old student. )


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## Conservative (Mar 21, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...


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## Political Junky (Mar 21, 2012)

We've not heard the end of a law that allows anyone to kill anyone else, as long as the shooter claims he was in danger.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...



Trayvon  had no record that the courts will release. Since he is a juvenile he is not supposed to have his records made public, right?

But whatever Travnors record is, Zimmerman had an arrest or two with no plea bargains or technical fouls. So he is as innocent in the eyes of the law as Tavnor.

And at what point do you think it is OK to shoot in self-defense?

When the riminal has you fading out of consciousness from kicking you in your head? 

When you get knocked down to the ground on your back?

You people are engaged in prejudice aagainst Zimmerman when you do not have all the facts.

According to Zimmermans testimony and a third party, Tavnor hit Zimmerman in the back of the head from behind, knocking him to the ground, where Travnor commenced to kicking Zimmerman and pounding him with their fists. 

Untill someone can do better than just 'Whites ar racists and secretly want to kill a black man, any black man' there is no evidence that contradicts Zimmermans tale and a third person witnessed the assault. Travnor had Zimmerman on his back and was pounding the guy with his feet and fists.


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## beagle9 (Mar 22, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> What if someone later finds Zimmerman to be suspicious and pumps some lead into his back claiming self-defense.
> 
> Wouldn't that be something?



And what makes you at this point, any different than what you are accusing another of ? Hatred is simply hatred, and it cuts both ways when applied before the facts are all in...........

Lets take a look at your suspect or suspicious analogy above, and lets think about what you have written, then apply it to the street... What makes you any different from Zimmermen in your alledged hatred and suspicions you accuse him of before all the facts are in on the case ? Otherwise if were to encounter someone you then suspect could be a bad guy or gal (like Zimmerman in your statements written above) and/or are then suspicious of out on the street, I mean with your mindset given, and then accompanied by your hatred as shown above (pumping led into his back, claiming self defence), wouldnot the outcome be the same in which you claim against Zimmerman, having not yet the full facts of the case still ?

Why not take the high road always, and speak about the facts needing to be known totally now in such a case, and if there is a serious misjudgement on Zimmerman's part, and he did things that wrongfully led to the teens death, then we can only hope that justice will prevail in such a case, and that it should definitely be reviewed by a grand jury, and with indictments given out next.

People if not careful, can lower themselves to the very thing by which they are accusing another of, thus placing themselves also as the very thing in which they are accusing another of, and thus should excuse themselves from the jury due to extreme (racial) bias just as well in such a case..

Didnot they take the handcuff's off of OJ Simpson when first captured, sighting that he had not been proven guilty as of yet (i.e. didnot prove to be a flight risk)??? So why then were the handcuffs used on OJ was the question posed (even under the weight of the overwhelming situation found in the pursuit and/or chase) he was still required by law to be treated as innocent until proven guilty. So what happened to "Innocent until proven Guilty in a court of law" ? I'm asking you....................................

In this case as it were with OJ Simpson (remember), Zimmerman is now being tried in the court of public opinion or by the media, and is "guilty" first by interent and media standards that have been set, and this until he is somehow proven innocent ?? 

This can make a lot of people eat crow quickly if not careful, so it best to let the courts handle it from here on out, don't cha think ?


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## bucs90 (Mar 22, 2012)

Wait, I'm confused. So he's hispanic, and murdered a black kid. But the murder was racially motivated, so he must be white. So how can he be both racist (white) and hispanic (not racist) at the same time?


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## zeke (Mar 22, 2012)

Will the NRA be funding the defense of Zimmerman?


> We've not heard the end of a law that allows anyone to kill anyone else, as long as the shooter claims he was in danger.



.....and as long as there are no wittnesses.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> Wait, I'm confused. So he's hispanic, and murdered a black kid. But the murder was racially motivated, so he must be white. So how can he be both racist (white) and hispanic (not racist) at the same time?



I'm not sure what your color has to do with if you're racist or not. He was calling the kid a coon.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > What if someone later finds Zimmerman to be suspicious and pumps some lead into his back claiming self-defense.
> ...



This smells of media hysteria so bad, it reminds me of the early Duke case.

Most of the hypocrital 'hang-em-high' race-baiting fools in the media are ignorant of Zimmermans side of the story.

They have no idea that Martin was seen on top of Zimmeran pounding him with his feet and fists. They have no idea that Zimmerman had bleeding wounds to the back of his head and his face and was covered in grass from Martin having put him on the ground.

But the libtards dont care as long as they get their pound of flesh.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

G.T. said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, I'm confused. So he's hispanic, and murdered a black kid. But the murder was racially motivated, so he must be white. So how can he be both racist (white) and hispanic (not racist) at the same time?
> ...



So Clint Eastwood is a racist for calling a black a 'spook'?

Saying the word coon is proof that Zimmerman had murderous intent?

Do you ever bother to connect the dots you present?

How does one reasonably go from 'he called him a coon' to 'he killed him in cold blood'?


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

zeke said:


> Will the NRA be funding the defense of Zimmerman?
> 
> 
> > We've not heard the end of a law that allows anyone to kill anyone else, as long as the shooter claims he was in danger.
> ...



There WERE witnesses.


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## bucs90 (Mar 22, 2012)

G.T. said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, I'm confused. So he's hispanic, and murdered a black kid. But the murder was racially motivated, so he must be white. So how can he be both racist (white) and hispanic (not racist) at the same time?
> ...



Well, because I finally allowed the liberal community to educate my dumb self, and I now know that white people are racist by default until proven not racist, and minorities are not racist...ever. Ever.

So how can he be both hispanic and racist? 

But reading more on the case, I saw they said Zimmerman is half white, half hispanic. So then it made perfect sense. His racist white half did the profiling. His violent hispanic half did the kiling. 

See? Without racial assumptions we'd never solve anything I'm sure Al Sharpton and his ilk who have flocked to Orlando for the "Million Hoodie March" aren't making any racial assumptions yet though.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



How does one go from "he said a racial epithet" to "he killed him in cold blood?"

Do YOU ever respond to what's posted, and not some blatant assumption based on what's NOT even there?


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



Well, just because you heard it on TV doesn't make it true.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

G.T. said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



Then what the hell does "He was calling the kid a coon" have to do with the price of shit in China?

Why do you bring it up like it is somehow relevant?

Of course we both know that you are a lying shit and just ducking away from your idiotic implication.


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## Sallow (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Salt Jones said:
> ...



Predjuiced against what?

At this point, Zimmerman seems to be the aggressor. He was chasing Martin, a minor by the way.

At the very least..Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged with Homicide. Then the forenics could take their course while the public is assured safety.

This also points out why that "No Retreat" law is so bad. It's very vague as to what counts as "self defense". And it allows anyone with a grief or beef to construe it's okay to go vilgilante.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

G.T. said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



But the libtards on TV are true when they report the libtard view of this case, because they are themselves libtards.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I was responding to a post about race, dipshit.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



Ok, so "jimbowie" is another unhinged radical who has the "us versus them" mentality like all the leftist and righty loons here. 

I'll put that "check" in my head and remember never to take you seriously. Thnx.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Predjuiced against what?



Any man that defends himself with a gunespecially if the shooter is 'white' and the dead man a black.



Sallow said:


> At this point, Zimmerman seems to be the aggressor.



He only seems to be the aggressor if you ignore the bleeding wounds Zimmerman had to the back of his head where MArtin hit him, and the bleeding wounds he had to his face where Martin then stood over him and beat and kicked  him on the ground.



Sallow said:


> He was chasing Martin, a minor by the way.




He *followed* Martin, apparently stopped after the dispatcher said to, and then got blindsided by this 17 year old young adult. (it is amazing how libtards like to call late teenagers 'young adults' but they magically become 'children' when it suits to use them as victims). 



Sallow said:


> At the very least..Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged with Homicide. Then the forenics could take their course while the public is assured safety.



You werent there and you dont know jack shit except for what the MSM spoon feeds you.



Sallow said:


> This also points out why that "No Retreat" law is so bad. It's very vague as to what counts as "self defense". And it allows anyone with a grief or beef to construe it's okay to go vilgilante.



BINGO!

The repeal of 'stand your ground' laws are the real point here.

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Take my guns bitch.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

G.T. said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



So why dont you answer the fucking questions instead of using that bullshit for cover?

You lying fucktard. 

You dont give a shit about Martin or Zimmerman. 

You just want to help lynch an innocent man because you are too lazy or stupid to get the facts straight.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

G.T. said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



No shit, you were responding to the post.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

WHY do you think it relevant is the question, POS.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Nobody asked me a question, loon. 

You don't know if he's innocent yet, loon. 

Seems someone is using Politics to decide the case for them - and it's you - right here - in this post. Strong work, loon.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 22, 2012)

This whole debate is horse-shit.

My guess is the race-baiters are stewing for riots in L.A. 

They already got them going in NYC.

What is this????

It's media-driven racism condoned by government.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 22, 2012)

G.T. said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > G.T. said:
> ...



I have asked you several questions, but so what? You wont answer the questions NOW either.

And yes, the politics here is the anti-gun effort to roll back stand your ground laws, nothing more than that.

And I do know that there is insufficient evidence to arrest this guy according to local police and the FBI as well.

But you want the guy lynched anyway?

Piss off.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Don't tell me what I want. You're a sucker, I'm a sucker free b-o-s-s.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



As long as he's white. If it becomes known by all that he's hispanic their argument shifts to gun rights. This guy has to be labled a white guy, possibly conservative. They desperately need a Rush Limbaugh type to start busting caps in the hood.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)

lol @ this "they" talk.


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## Sallow (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Predjuiced against what?
> ...



Um..aside from your blather..the Germane points here are:

-Zimmerman was chasing Martin.
-Martin's girlfriend's interview conflicts with Zimmerman's in that she heard him confront Martin.
-Martin had the very same right to defend himself.
-Zimmerman is not a trained LEO. He wasn't registered as Neighborhood watch either.
-Zimmerman has shown that he has the capacity to take human life.


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## bodecea (Mar 22, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



Who is it that told you that white people were racist by default and what about their argument was so compelling to you?


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## GuyPinestra (Mar 22, 2012)

There's a lot of folks claiming Zimmerman called this guy a 'coon', but I've listened to all the 911 calls I can find and don't hear it or see it in any transcripts. Can anyone provide a link that PROVES this assertion, or is it just being made up to further your agenda?


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2012)

*So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. * 

it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.

The reports say Zimmerman was attacked and had a bad bruise on his face from being hit in the face with a soda can. A witness said the young man was on top of him beating the older man. That tells you the kid wasn't innocent in this either and there was a confrontation.


The chief listened to what Zimmerman said, there are reports that Zimmerman had wounds on him, and there is an eyewitness who saw him on the ground before he shot the kid.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/


According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"

*Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

---

According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.* 

so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.  

where is the crime?


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## Douger (Mar 22, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FjVsApOm44]Hadza Monkey Hunt and Pot Smoking - YouTube[/ame]


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## mudwhistle (Mar 22, 2012)

Sallow said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



So which side of the family does this criminality come from?

His white side or hispanic side?

Is this bull shit worth starting a nationwide race-riot?

Is this justification of any black asshole in the country to begin showing their ass in public? 

Trust me, it's already started. 

Does it feel good to foment racial unrest, giving Obama the turmoil he wanted this Summer?


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

Dante said:


> According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.*
> 
> so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.
> 
> where is the crime?



In what fucking universe does asking a guy following you 'why are you following me' considered 'starting a verbal confrontation'?

In what fucking universe does the hispanic/white/what fucking eva guy have the right to just walk up to someone and ask 'what are you doing around here?'

I am not fully supporting either side until all the facts are out. 

That being said, I'm not entirely convinced that an unofficial self-appointed neighborhood watch captain who carries a gun and follows 'suspicious characters' around late at night and doesn't listen to the 911 operator, can be completely trusted to give an honest account of what happened.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.*
> ...



Dante suffers from confirmation bias. And he likes to spam the board with facts that aren't facts.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



seems to be a rash of that going around the board lately.

I wonder if there's a cream or something to cure it?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> In what fucking universe does the hispanic/white/what fucking eva guy have the right to just walk up to someone and ask 'what are you doing around here?'



When its private property he holds an ownership interest in.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > What if someone later finds Zimmerman to be suspicious and pumps some lead into his back claiming self-defense.
> ...



Are you really that much of an idiot, or are you just so desperate to maintain a BS position that you've already abandoned all sense of reason?  Nobody is advocating that Zimmerman be murdered.  The point was that the interpretation of law that is required to believe Zimmerman is innocent by self defense is both absurd and extremely dangerous to society.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > In what fucking universe does the hispanic/white/what fucking eva guy have the right to just walk up to someone and ask 'what are you doing around here?'
> ...



And was the guy on private property? I was under the understanding that he was walking down the street.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Private street, dedicated privately per condo plat.

You cant have public right-of-way behind gates in Florida.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > In what fucking universe does the hispanic/white/what fucking eva guy have the right to just walk up to someone and ask 'what are you doing around here?'
> ...


You keep saying that with no proof to back yourself up.

A property search in Seminole County returns no results for George Zimmerman.

You also can't seem to back up your claim that the boy had no right to be on the property.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Got it.  Keep thinking you know everything.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 22, 2012)

I find it incomprehensible that so many are defending Zimmermann's actions. 

And there are some other issues here, also. Why, with Zimmermann's record, was he given a concealed carry permit? Why did not the Sanford Police Department tell him to cease and desist after about his 20th bogus call? Why at his 40th bogus call did they not pull him in, and realize that he was packing and dangerous? This is one fucked up situation, and a 17 year old kid that had done nothing at all wrong has paid for it with his life.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



There you go with that dumb shit again.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Most of the hypocrital 'hang-em-high' race-baiting fools in the media are ignorant of Zimmermans side of the story.



Zimmerman's side of the story:

_Yes, I chased that "fucking coon" down.

Yes, I shot him.

Let's just call it self defense._



> They have no idea that Martin was seen on top of Zimmeran pounding him with his feet and fists.



EVIDENCE!!!!

And you better come up with something good to justify you sucking Zimmerman's dick.  You know damn well that you have nothing to back that up, and that you're simply inventing out of thin air.

Even if it were true, the fact still remains that Zimmerman chased after Martin.  Self defense does not apply to a situation you put yourself into by chasing down what you have already told police you think is a "suspicious" person "up to no good."



> They have no idea that Zimmerman had bleeding wounds to the back of his head and his face and was covered in grass from Martin having put him on the ground.



Evidence.



> But the libtards dont care as long as they get their pound of flesh.



What's remarkable is that this issue is one where most of the right and left on this board are in agreement.  On this board, that's saying something HUGE.  You're in the fringe minority, with even some severe wing nuts of both sides being able to find agreement that Zimmerman was in the wrong.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Zimmerman owned the gated community?


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> How does one reasonably go from 'he called him a coon' to 'he killed him in cold blood'?



Let's see.....pursuit, gun shot, and dead body seem to connect those dots pretty well.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



that appears to be your job.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Calls mount for police chief's firing in Trayvon Martin case


> The unarmed youth was shot Feb. 26 *as he was returning to a gated community* after buying candy at a convenience store.



Difficult to return to a place you don't belong in... unless of course you do.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Leasehold interest to the extent the undivided interest in rights-of-way and common areas are divided amongst the owners and managed by an association with a Board comprised of duly elected owners.

_The Retreat at Twin Lakes Community and Condo Association_ in this case


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> I find it incomprehensible that so many are defending Zimmermann's actions.
> 
> And there are some other issues here, also. Why, with Zimmermann's record, was he given a concealed carry permit? Why did not the Sanford Police Department tell him to cease and desist after about his 20th bogus call? Why at his 40th bogus call did they not pull him in, and realize that he was packing and dangerous? This is one fucked up situation, and a 17 year old kid that had done nothing at all wrong has paid for it with his life.


Was Zimmerman convicted of a crime?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



According to this retarded cocksucker oopa loofa yes he did.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Yes? what else retard? the boys father lived in that community as well, he had a right to be there, is your head that filled up with your boyfriends sperm that you can't comprehend that?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Difficult to return to a place you don't belong in... unless of course you do.



He was an invitee or guest who belonged there to the extent he complied the obligation to validate the resident granting them guest status.

Just as the kids you dont know horseplaying in your condo pool can be asked who they are visting or be kicked out.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> You werent there and you dont know jack shit except for what the MSM spoon feeds you.



You, of course, were not there, and know jack shit, ( . )

But you're more than happy to make up things out of thin air.  I can't comprehend why you would feel the need to take such a ridiculous stance in the first place.  Even the majority of far rightists on this board, even the majority of those who initially started off defending Zimmerman off the bat, have transitioned into holding him accountable for what he's done.  Even the Republican lawmakers who wrote and sponsored the FL statute are calling for Zimmerman's arrest.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Is Hip-Hop Going To Stand Up For Trayvon Martin? | Global Grind


> This incident involves Trayvon Martin: a young black teenager *visiting his father in a gated Florida community.*



Does anyone know if the boys father actually did live in this gated community? If so, would seem to me he 'belonged' there, as much as anyone else.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
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My understanding is that Martin's dad was visiting his fiancee, who lives there, and the 17 yo was with his dad.  They were guests of a resident in the community.  Totally allowed to be there.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> I find it incomprehensible that so many are defending Zimmermann's actions.
> 
> And there are some other issues here, also. Why, with Zimmermann's record, was he given a concealed carry permit? Why did not the Sanford Police Department tell him to cease and desist after about his 20th bogus call? Why at his 40th bogus call did they not pull him in, and realize that he was packing and dangerous? This is one fucked up situation, and a 17 year old kid that had done nothing at all wrong has paid for it with his life.



Zimmerman is said to have a concealed weapon permit. How many false 911 calls is another question; I have never heard of anyone "picked up" because of unfounded 911 calls.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > You werent there and you dont know jack shit except for what the MSM spoon feeds you.
> ...



The city manager has released a statement that says the evidence and witness supported an attack by Martin.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
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This faggot oopa loopa keeps saying the kid didn't belong there even though his father lived there, this moron is just as dumb as the idiots who keep repeating Zimmerman is white.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> My understanding is that Martin's dad was visiting his fiancee, who lives there, and the 17 yo was with his dad.  They were guests of a resident in the community.  Totally allowed to be there.



So if your kids are visitors and asked by an adult what they are doing there....


answer = head bashed with soda can and jump on top of adult ?


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## Old Rocks (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > I find it incomprehensible that so many are defending Zimmermann's actions.
> ...



Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman: Who is neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman? - Orlando Sentinel

In 2005, George Zimmerman was twice accused of either criminal misconduct or violence.

That July, Zimmerman  21 at the time  was at a bar near the University of Central Florida when a friend was arrested by state alcohol agents on suspicion of serving underage drinkers, according to an arrest report.

Zimmerman was talking with his friend, became profane and pushed an agent who tried to escort him away, the report said. Authorities said he was arrested after a short struggle.

Charged with resisting arrest without violence, he avoided conviction by entering a pretrial-diversion program, something common for first-time offenders.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > I find it incomprehensible that so many are defending Zimmermann's actions.
> ...


Zimmerman made false calls to 9/11?  I'm not finding that information:  ....

As for George Zimmermans 911 calls, its hard to tell whether he ever made a false report or harassed dispatchers. All we know is that he was very vigilant, and that unto itself is not illegal.​
Too Many 911 Calls Can Get You Arrested | Reuters

He made a lot, but I don't know if they were false.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Difficult to return to a place you don't belong in... unless of course you do.
> ...


But they can't be shot.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
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If they bash your head in with a blunt object, jump on you and beat you .....the police and state attorney think they can.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > My understanding is that Martin's dad was visiting his fiancee, who lives there, and the 17 yo was with his dad.  They were guests of a resident in the community.  Totally allowed to be there.
> ...



Thats not what happened faggot, you are making things up.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

homophobic slurs are not necessary, HG.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 22, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



I'm a landlord. 

My wife won't rent to folks that have kids dressed in hoodies and baggy pants regardless of their race. They tend to get involved in drugs, mouth off, get drunk, stay up raising hell waking up my other tenants. 

Every single time we have in the past they became bad tenants in a matter of months. 

Just an observation.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...




Some calls were about open windows & garage doors. I still cannot see the police picking HIM up because his panic over everything HE thought an emergency.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


So, he wasn't convicted of a crime.

That explains one of the reasons why he can own and carry a firearm - no conviction.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

*"Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony.... By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time." * 

Sanford City Manager - Norton Bonaparte Jr - Wed March 22, 2012


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
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There's no reason to believe that Martin attacked Zimmerman first, and there's no proof that he even attacked him at all. Zimmerman has a bit of a history of laying the blame on others:

Trayvon Martin case: Details revealed in George Zimmerman domestic-violence court records


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> homophobic slurs are not necessary, HG.



They do provide a window into the mindset and understanding of the XBox 360 Live level of exchange.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

Trayvon Martin Shooting: 13-Year-Old Witness Still Hears Screams


> A day after the 911 calls in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., were released, a 13-year-old witness is recounting his experience that night...





> The police claim that Austin told them Zimmerman was the one screaming. Although Austin couldn't tell exactly who it was, he believes that it was Martin.





> Meanwhile, other witnesses are now saying that the police tried to twist their testimony to support Zimmerman's claims of self-defense.


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## G.T. (Mar 22, 2012)




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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
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> > Peach said:
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Not all his calls to police were to 9/11.  He also made calls to their non-emergency number, and this one in particular was to the non-emergency number.

"The calls released this afternoon were made to the non-emergency line. The Sheriff's Office handles dispatching for Sanford Police."


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> *"Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony.... By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time." *
> 
> Sanford City Manager - Norton Bonaparte Jr - Wed March 22, 2012



And now, as more information is being uncovered and witnesses making statements, that may change.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
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Except for that physical evidence and witness testimony.

Whatcha' feeling forensics on the ice tea can, Martin's hands and ballistic residue when revealed to the grand jury might show ?


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Trayvon Martin Shooting: 13-Year-Old Witness Still Hears Screams
> 
> 
> > A day after the 911 calls in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., were released, a 13-year-old witness is recounting his experience that night...
> ...



An investigation at the time of the killing would have precluded some of the endless speculation.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > *"Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony.... By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time." *
> ...



Oh the witness has already changed several times but signed a statement.

Hmmm.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
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witness testimony that may be getting reported incorrectly by the police, it would appear.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


According to the parents of the victim.

So, who knows?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Trayvon Martin Shooting: 13-Year-Old Witness Still Hears Screams
> 
> 
> > A day after the 911 calls in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., were released, a 13-year-old witness is recounting his experience that night...
> ...



By golly its the racist police everytime.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
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We can only hope that the cops didn't throw the evidence away.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



And forensics on Zimmerman's hand at the scene? Is the the gun even in the custody of the Sheriff's Department?


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...


Where are the signed statements?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> homophobic slurs are not necessary, HG.



My bad, I'll just call him a bitch than.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > homophobic slurs are not necessary, HG.
> ...



I don't even own an XBOX 360 Bitch, Its all about the PS3.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> We can only hope that the cops didn't throw the evidence away.



The once righteous indignation jumps the track when challenged by law, evidence and testimony.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Trayvon Martin Shooting: 13-Year-Old Witness Still Hears Screams
> ...



where did I mention race, dipshit?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

ravi said:


> ooda_loop said:
> 
> 
> > conservative said:
> ...



g_r_a_n_d    j_u_r_y


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Well you can still be involved in drugs, mouth off, get drunk and stay up all night raising hell without worrying a hoodie, I never thought a hoodie was stereotyped this way.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> ravi said:
> 
> 
> > ooda_loop said:
> ...



You are the dumbest motherfucker on this board, hands down.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Elaborate on the police / state motivation...you already casted the aspersions.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Neighborhood Watch Shooting of Trayvon Martin: Probe Reveals 'Questionable Police Conduct' - ABC News
ABC News has uncovered questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white neighborhood watch captain in Florida, including the alleged "correction" of at least one eyewitness' account. 

Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.

The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



i cast nothing, dipshit. I listed what was in the linked piece. if YOU want to see race in that, that's your major malfunction, not mine.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > We can only hope that the cops didn't throw the evidence away.
> ...



Where is the evidence and why wasn't a investigation conducted? That's the problem here.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Means nothing.  Every capital testimony is video taped in Florida.

Another note the wording "_ ABC News has uncovered questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white neighborhood watch captain in Florida, including the alleged "correction" of at least one eyewitness' account. "_

ABC News has uncovered an accusation of that from a witness and perhaps with certainty, but as now..... not with certainty.

America is finished.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Still the most important question.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



No America is not finished but your dumb ass definently is, shut the fuck up.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Enough with this gated community BS.  What gives Zimmerman the right to be the one to evaluate whether people have a right to be there?  What gives Zimmerman the right to CONFRONT with hostility someone who might not belong there?  Absolutely nothing would have even indicated to Zimmerman that Martin was trespassing.  And as we know, Martin in fact was _not_ trespassing.

If we were to accept your theory, we would have to believe that the intent of FL's law is to grant Zimmerman special privileges whereby he could chase down every resident of the community as they enter and confront them in a hostile manner and shoot them with immunity from prosecution if they were to react with an intention to defend themselves, where his rights to self defense were paramount over those of other people, and where he enjoyed police powers that extend beyond those granted to actual police officers.  The whole thing is an absolutely ludicrous proposition.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



The City Manager has released a statement.

Was investigated.  Witness, Physical Evidence at the time = No arrest.

Perhaps the forensics will defy the physical.  Ya think ?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Ooopa loopa is just a racist idiot siding with the shooter no matter what, its that simple.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> If we were to accept your theory, we would have to believe that the intent of FL's law is to grant Zimmerman special privileges whereby he could chase down every resident of the community as they enter and confront them in a hostile manner and shoot them with immunity from prosecution if they were to react with an intention to defend themselves, where his rights to self defense were paramount over those of other people, and where he enjoyed police powers that extend beyond those granted to actual police officers.  The whole thing is an absolutely ludicrous proposition.



Private property rights gave him the right to question and pursue unknowns.

Just like your property.

The shooting part came after an attack as the evidence and witness testimony has shown thus far.

Which is why he is free and the City Manager confirms the evidence and testimony didnt rise to arrest while maintaining the integrety of evidence until presented to the grand jury.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



What capital testimony do you speak of?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > If we were to accept your theory, we would have to believe that the intent of FL's law is to grant Zimmerman special privileges whereby he could chase down every resident of the community as they enter and confront them in a hostile manner and shoot them with immunity from prosecution if they were to react with an intention to defend themselves, where his rights to self defense were paramount over those of other people, and where he enjoyed police powers that extend beyond those granted to actual police officers.  The whole thing is an absolutely ludicrous proposition.
> ...



The gated community was not Zimmerman's private property ya dumb bitch.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Yes, I read his excuse. He based it on this:



> According to Florida Statute 776.032 :776.032
> 
> Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.(1)
> 
> A person who uses force as permitted in s.776.012, s.776.013, or s.776.031is  justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action forthe use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a lawenforcement officer, as defined in s.943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance withany applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known thatthe person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term criminalprosecution includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting thedefendant.



In reality, they didn't know if it was justifiable use of force or not. And as far as anyone can tell, the entire matter was dropped that evening with no follow up investigation. They might not have been able to make an arrest but they most certainly could have had an investigation.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...


I'm thinking that (1) because it is reported that Zimmerman had wounds on him (a media report):  According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.;

And, (2), because of the statute:  A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

So, if someone shoots another in Florida and the shooter is allowed to be in the place where the shooting occured, as long as there is evidence that the shooter was attacked, the shooter isn't illegal.  And, of course the shooter will say they believed they needed to shoot.

Bad law, I say.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > If we were to accept your theory, we would have to believe that the intent of FL's law is to grant Zimmerman special privileges whereby he could chase down every resident of the community as they enter and confront them in a hostile manner and shoot them with immunity from prosecution if they were to react with an intention to defend themselves, where his rights to self defense were paramount over those of other people, and where he enjoyed police powers that extend beyond those granted to actual police officers.  The whole thing is an absolutely ludicrous proposition.
> ...



 It was just decided yesterday to involve the grand jury.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


It's even worse. No injury need be present, just the "fear" of the person doing the homicide is justification enough under this law.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...




And forensic evidence on Zimmerman is ZIP. Has the weapon been recovered?


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...


Yeah, apparently.  This is a really bad law, IMO.

I doubt the legislators envisioned this, but dammit, they should have.  That's their job.


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## Claudette (Mar 22, 2012)

Zimmerman was in the wrong here, totally. He may be covered by some Florida statutes  but he was definietly wrong. He used piss poor judgment and that young man is dead. 

According to the guys I work with he should be prosecuted for Culpable Negligence. 

Will see what happens.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Well, I certainly bitched about it when it was up for passage.

If one has a reasonable suspicion they are in danger they may shoot to kill. The sad fact is  that "reasonable suspicion" is very subjective. Enough people fear black teens in hoodies....or white guys with skinheads....or what have you....


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
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From what I understand, he was sent home with his weapon that night.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


Right.  This law would make me consider developing agoraphobia if I lived in Florida.  It can be dangerous out on the streets for those just going about their business.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...



The "fear" must be of "deadly force" I believe; an investigation into a shooting usually involves taking the firearm into police custody, tests on the person firing the weapon, etc. Not done here I gather.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


Well, I quoted the statute itself and it does not say the user of deadly force has to fear deadly force.  It's right there ^^^.


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## Sallow (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



One of the authors of the law said that it's application was not relevant in this case. I sort of disagree with that..since it's an extremely poorly written and dangerous law.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...


It really is.  If I knew about this law, I would hesitate to be in public.  I have opinions and I don't hesitate to voice them.


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## Sallow (Mar 22, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



The police failed at due diligence. That's really the only issue.

I don't know where the rest of the conflation comes from.


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## Sallow (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Seems we agree.


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

What, y'all mean you don't want to vacation in Florida this year?


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Sallow said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Agreed, the police did -0-.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> What, y'all mean you don't want to vacation in Florida this year?


  Now that I know this law, I won't be getting snarky with anyone in Florida (especially TSA agents), that's for sure.


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## Valerie (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> What, y'all mean you don't want to vacation in Florida this year?





   Good point!


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## uscitizen (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...


Of course Zimmerman could go on anyone elses private property and shoot someone?


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## Mustang (Mar 22, 2012)

Has anyone considered the following possibility...

Since Zimmerman is obviously "out and about" carrying a gun in his neighborhood on a regular basis.  And SINCE Zimmerman has shown a willingness to actually use his gun (fire it as opposed to just brandishing it), then it would be reasonable for people in his neighborhood to fear for their lives if and when they encounter him on the street.

Does everyone see where I'm going with this?

With the "Stand Your Ground" statute still on the books, ANYONE (especially a young minority male) who encounters Zimmerman on the street could state that he reasonably feared for his life and then legally shoot Zimmerman, assuming everything I've read about the application of the law applies regardless of who the shooter and the shooting victims are.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Has anyone considered the following possibility...
> 
> Since Zimmerman is obviously "out and about" carrying a gun in his neighborhood on a regular basis.  And SINCE Zimmerman has shown a willingness to actually use his gun (fire it as opposed to just brandishing it), then it would be reasonable for people in his neighborhood to fear for their lives if and when they encounter him on the street.
> 
> ...


Won't wash.  An encounter is not an attack.  According to the statute, there has to be an attack involved.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.​
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine


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## Mustang (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone considered the following possibility...
> ...



I don't think it matters.  Zimmerman has already killed someone.  He's known to carry a gun.  A person could say that they saw Zimmerman reach into his coat or his back pocked and feared (reasonably, of course) for his life.  And because of those facts, pulled his own gun (which I believe he would have to have a legal carry permit to have) and shot in what he believed was self-defense.  This person's case could prove to be stronger than Zimmerman's own  case since Z is known to carry a gun.


----------



## Chris (Mar 22, 2012)

Murder pure and simple.

Zimmerman should go to prison for life.


----------



## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...


If the person knows enough to say that, you may be right.

That's yet another reason this law is so very bad.

And, I'm glad to hear that the Florida legislature is revisiting this law.


----------



## Mustang (Mar 22, 2012)

Chris said:


> Murder pure and simple.
> 
> Zimmerman should go to prison for life.



The latest story I heard (supposedly from an on-scene investigator) is that Zimmerman's back was wet and he had grass stains on him and blood on his head (as if he had been knocked down on the grass).  But this info is apparently not in any police report made at the time.


----------



## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Murder pure and simple.
> ...


Actually, we don't know that it's not in a police report at the time.  We do know that the family of Martin claims that it wasn't, though.


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## Emma (Mar 22, 2012)

Mustang said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Murder pure and simple.
> ...



http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

It is. 

I want to know if LE determined _whose_ blood was on Zimmerman. Did he sustain a blow to the head or, for example, did his apparent head wound come from striking the concrete walkway in the courtyard?


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## GuyPinestra (Mar 22, 2012)

Chris said:


> Murder pure and simple.
> 
> Zimmerman should go to prison for life.



In order to convict a man for murder you need E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E, IDIOT.


----------



## Emma (Mar 22, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.



fwiw

The police on scene, including an officer named Ricardo Ayala (I'm guessing he IS Hispanic), listed Zimmerman as a "white male" in their report. That is why the media reported him as white. 

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

GuyPinestra said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Murder pure and simple.
> ...



Which was not gathered when the killing occurred.


----------



## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> So if your kids are visitors and asked by an adult what they are doing there....
> 
> 
> answer = head bashed with soda can and jump on top of adult ?



EVIDENCE!!!  SHOW SOME FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT THAT EVER HAPPENED!!!  OTHERWISE, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

It's absolutely sickening that you are willing to completely make shit up to defend the killing of an innocent kid.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > So if your kids are visitors and asked by an adult what they are doing there....
> ...




The evidence may NOT have been collected; thus, the problems.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Emma said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Is actually hispanic.
> ...


Thanks.  Good find.

So, the parents' claim that Zimmerman had grass stains on his back and blood on his face were added LATER is wrong. 

It's right there in the report by Ofc. Smith in your link.  It wasn't added later.

Also, the responding officers turned the scene over to CSI.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...




And the FINAL report concluded what? The partial report indicates nothing much about Zimmerman.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > ravi said:
> ...



No, that still belongs to Willow.  But this guy is close.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...




It indicates that he was handcuffed, taken to the cop station in a cruiser, told cops that he had yelled for help and no one came, that he had a gun in his waist band, that he followed the cops' verbal demands, that he had grass stains on his back, that he had wounds on his face, .....

It says the cops tried to resuscitate the kid, that the paramedics came and tried :the same, that the kid was pronounced on the scene at 7:30 PM, that they cordoned off the area, that they collected the gun from Zimmerman and put it into evidence, that they turned the case over to CSI, ....

You can link on that, you know.  And, I bet you can read, too.  You don't need me to read for you.  What I wrote is from memory, too.  So, read it; I imagine you may glean some info from it, too.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



I have to say this guy takes it, Willow is sarcastic in alot of her posts, this clown sincerely believes the vomit he is typing.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > So if your kids are visitors and asked by an adult what they are doing there....
> ...



Its not though, oopa loopa is racist jack ass who is on the side of the shooter right or wrong.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Yeah, apparently.  This is a really bad law, IMO.
> 
> I doubt the legislators envisioned this, but dammit, they should have.  That's their job.



Author of FL "stand your ground" law says Zimmerman "not covered" under the law.



> As the prime sponsor of this legislation in the Florida House, I'd like to clarify that this law does not seem to be applicable to the tragedy that happened in Sanford. There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals.





> However, the castle doctrine does not provide protection to individuals who seek to pursue and confront others, as is allegedly the case in the Trayvon Martin tragedy in Sanford.
> 
> The information that has been publicly reported concerning Trayvon Martin's death indicates that the castle doctrine may not be applicable to justify the actions of the attacker, Mr. Zimmerman.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, apparently.  This is a really bad law, IMO.
> ...


I understand that the politician would say that, now.  This law is shit and it's getting a lot of attention.  His motivation is to attempt to cover his political ass for championing a shit law.

What he now says about it has zero probative value, though.  He is not the law, the court now is.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, apparently.  This is a really bad law, IMO.
> ...




What is it about MarcATL and Inthemiddle that they want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Are their minds affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.

What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

GuyPinestra said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Murder pure and simple.
> ...



There's a dead person.  Zimmerman admits to shooting him.  Zimmerman admits to pursuing him.  Zimmerman was recorded on the phone by police saying he was pursuing him.  The victim's phone conversation recorded him reporting that he was being followed and was trying to get away.  Witnesses said that they heard the victim screaming for help.  Another witness's call to 911 recorded the victim's screaming in the background which was suddenly silenced by the gun shot.

Hmmm, sounds like there's lots of evidence.  You need more?  Well, maybe we should have the police actually investigate for evidence, as opposed to simply blowing off their duties.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> GuyPinestra said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
> ...


 

The reports of cops first to the scene indicate they didn't blow much off:

It indicates that Zimmerman was handcuffed, taken to the cop station in a cruiser, told cops that he had yelled for help and no one came, that he had a gun in his waist band, that he followed the cops' verbal demands, that he had grass stains on his back, that he had wounds on his face, that they questioned him in an interview room, .....

The report says the cops tried to resuscitate the kid, that the paramedics came and tried the same, that the kid was pronounced on the scene at 7:30 PM, that they cordoned off the area, that they collected the gun from Zimmerman and put it into evidence, that they did a crime scene contamination log, that they turned the case over to CSI, ....

That looks pretty SOP

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



The court isn't the law.  The court will have to interpret the law, if the case ever goes to trial.  In that process, the court will have to try to infer the legislative intent, and the author's own words are going to certainly go a long way toward that end.

I do agree that the law is worded poorly.  But can anyone really believe that the intent of the legislature was to create a carte blanche in the form of any old claim to "self defense" that would completely preempt any further investigation or prosecution?  And can we really believe that the intention of the legislature was to offer so broad protection for a person to "stand their ground" that that would include a right to "stand" ground you've gained in the process of chasing after someone and provoking a conflict?

As is often said on this board, your own rights end where they infringe upon another person's rights.  Martin had an equal right to self defense and to stand his ground.  He was trying to get away from Zimmerman, and Zimmerman was chasing after Martin.  Martin had just as much of a right to stand his ground as anyone.  Which means that Zimmerman's right to "stand his ground" ended where it required Martin to either continue to retreat or be met with hostility.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > GuyPinestra said:
> ...



Not turned over to the SA; no grand Jury. I have no conclusions other than an unarmed Floridian was killed without a thorough investigation. Any forensics on the weapon, any blood alcohol testing? I do not see any.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...


Actually, the court is absolutely the law.  *chuckle*  And, when considering legislative intent, the only probative value about what legislators say about it is that said up to the passage of the statute.

Not after.

*chuckle*


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## Ariux (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> There's a dead person.  Zimmerman admits to shooting him.  Zimmerman admits to pursuing him.  Zimmerman was recorded on the phone by police saying he was pursuing him.  The victim's phone conversation recorded him reporting that he was being followed and was trying to get away.  Witnesses said that they heard the victim screaming for help.  Another witness's call to 911 recorded the victim's screaming in the background which was suddenly silenced by the gun shot.



There is not one witness who can testify that the black was the one screaming for help (no, there's not).  Nothing that Zimmerman has admitted to suggests any intent to assault or shoot the black.  

Fact: There was a fight.

The preponderance of the evidence is that the black assaulted Zimmerman.  Zimmerman had no motive for an assault, the black did, to punish his "stalker".  Zimmerman had a gun, people with guns don't start fights.  Zimmerman knew the police were on the way.  The black didn't call the police, didn't know the police were on the way, and may not have known Zimmerman had a gun.

That assault gave Zimmerman the legal right to shoot the black.  The screaming stopped because Zimmerman was no longer in danger after he pulled the trigger.

Why do you think this black is innocent?  Because he's not white?  Because he doesn't look like a gangster?  Reason isn't on your side, so some form of prejudice must be.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...


  The COPS do not have the authority to turn anything over to a grand jury.  Basic 8th grade civics.

And, just because you don't see any forensics reports does not mean they don't exist.


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## Ariux (Mar 22, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> I do agree that the law is worded poorly.  But can anyone really believe that the intent of the legislature was to create a carte blanche in the form of any old claim to "self defense" that would completely preempt any further investigation or prosecution?



Yes, the intent of the law is to legally protect people who are defending themselves.  Self-defense has always been legal in all 50 states, but proof of self-defense often comes with a heavy burden.  This law was created to remove that burden.

The Jewish Mr. Zimmerman wasn't defending ground he gained, he was defending his body against a physical assault by the black.   



> Martin had an equal right to self defense and to stand his ground.



If the black had killed Hispanic Zimmerman, then we could talk about whether that was protected by the law.  But, this isn't the case.  Further, Zimmerman was assaulted, the black was not.



> He was trying to get away from Zimmerman, and Zimmerman was chasing after Martin.



Don't be stupid.  Zimmerman was a fat slob.  The young black was a buck bred for running, and was in prime physical condition.  There's no way that Zimmerman could have kept up with the black.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree that the law is worded poorly.  But can anyone really believe that the intent of the legislature was to create a carte blanche in the form of any old claim to "self defense" that would completely preempt any further investigation or prosecution?
> ...



You might as well just delete that bullshit you posted and make another post which says "I am a racist piece of shit who hates Black people and I side with the shooter Zimmerman no matter what", at least than you would be honest.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > There's a dead person.  Zimmerman admits to shooting him.  Zimmerman admits to pursuing him.  Zimmerman was recorded on the phone by police saying he was pursuing him.  The victim's phone conversation recorded him reporting that he was being followed and was trying to get away.  Witnesses said that they heard the victim screaming for help.  Another witness's call to 911 recorded the victim's screaming in the background which was suddenly silenced by the gun shot.
> ...



My god you are even stupider than I imagined.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...


Exactly.  He has established himself as completely scrollable, so he is a waste of time.

Some like wasting their time, though.  Go figure.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...




Any thoughts on why the city asked for the Feds to come in?


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...


Ummmm, the city didn't.  The family contacted Sharpton and then some in the US Congress asked the feds to get involved.


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## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

Sanford Police Chief Temporarily Steps Down Amid Outrage Over Shooting Death Of Teen | Fox News


> The embattled police chief at the center of a fatal neighborhood watch shooting temporarily stepped down Thursday, saying he had become a distraction to the investigation.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Any thoughts on why the city asked for the Feds to come in?



City is wrapped up tight on their investigation, witness tesitmony and evidence.

So is the state.

Thus the clever statement _"the police investigation needs to be greatly supplemented"_.

Investigational supplementations:

-  Forensics on Arizona Iced Tea Can.
-  Gunshot residue on deceased.
-  Audio analysis on tape for possible voice determination

April 10th


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Conservative said:


> Sanford Police Chief Temporarily Steps Down Amid Outrage Over Shooting Death Of Teen | Fox News
> 
> 
> > The embattled police chief at the center of a fatal neighborhood watch shooting temporarily stepped down Thursday, saying he had become a distraction to the investigation.



Great move.  Not the move of race motivated police cover up.

Let Fed dig deep and State even more.

I am certain the State is squaring(ed) their investigation against Justice Department fast and furiousness.


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Thank you Si, the more facts that come out in front of the SEMINOLE COUNTY Grand Jury, the better.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Thank you Si, the more facts that come out in front of the SEMINOLE COUNTY Grand Jury, the better.



Look for something like this:

*Zimmerman took 13 stitches to close the back of his head.*

What type of trauma would cause that level of damage to the skull perineum Doctor ?

_Blunt force....most often edged or round heavy object._

Like your fist ?

_No punching someone in the back of the head is not consistent with that type of tearing._

Would fist trauma sufficient enough to cause this type of injury cause the striking parties hand to bruise ?

_Most definitely, possibly fracture._

Did you see / note any such level of trauma on the deceased's hands during your autopsy Doctor ?

_No, I did not._

Thank you Doctor.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Si, the more facts that come out in front of the SEMINOLE COUNTY Grand Jury, the better.
> ...


Do you have anything to support anything you just said?

Linkiepoo?


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Investigational supplementations:
> 
> -  Audio analysis on tape for possible voice determination



I heard the 911 tape on the radio and someone was calling for help loudly and repeatedly and then there were two gunshots and everything went quiet. Zimmerman's family claims it was his voice calling for help and he acted in self-defence but his case could collapse if it's proven to be the victim's voice scientifically.


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## MarcATL (Mar 22, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



So Al Sharpton is THAT powerful huh? Do you even know WTF you're talking about? Let me help you with that...no, you don't.


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## MarcATL (Mar 22, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Investigational supplementations:
> ...


There was just one shot. You're probably getting confused with the two separate calls that recorded that single, fatal gunshot heard around the world.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

_&#8220;Mr. Zimmerman&#8217;s claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony *we have independent* of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.&#8221;

To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death. 

Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story,&#8221; _

Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief


----------



## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...


Right.  Sharpton's never on the tube.  Ever.  And, Congressmen can never, ever influence the DOJ.

Ever.

Never, ever.

(You've lost it, Marc.)


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## MarcATL (Mar 22, 2012)

*spits coconut juice out of nostrils*

WoW!! According to the psycho-chick Si Modo, Al Sharpton, a person she herself claims is nothing but a "race-baiting" huckster, has the juice to make Congress do back-flips.

Kill me now. I think I've heard it all.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> *spits coconut juice out of nostrils*
> 
> WoW!! According to the psycho-chick Si Modo, Al Sharpton, a person she herself claims is nothing but a "race-baiting" huckster, has the juice to make Congress do back-flips.
> 
> Kill me now. I think I've heard it all.


Only, I never said any of that.

But, you did.

You're arguing with yourself and looking silly while doing it.


----------



## ThirdTerm (Mar 22, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> ThirdTerm said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



There are multiple 911 tapes from different callers and most recordings registered only one shot but one call contains two sounds, first a muted bang which could be a warning shot, then the louder crack of close-range gunfire. But Sanford police said that a check of the weapon showed only one shot was fired.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 22, 2012)

My,my, what a zoo we have since this story hit the board. We got every bigot here advocating using young Black males for target practice by armed vigilantes, and we got the resident Leftiists ready to form a lynch mob and administer "justice" themselves; we got Marc, who normally is relatively sane, and civil even if you disagree with him, suddenly foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog and advocating street justice....I tell you what, if that many of you no longer want to use the judicial process, how about, we just take the police of the streets and keep the military in their barracks, while the rest of us just go ahead and shoot whoever we don't like, can't stand, or whatever; and when it's all over, the survivors (if any) can try putting the country back together-what's left of it? Would that be satisfactory to all of you on both sides who want to just get the guns or the ropes, and have at it? Makes as much sense as decrying vigilante justice on one hand, while advocating a return to lynching with the other, if you ask me. Can't we please, please, just have a civili discussion of this case for a few minutes, without everyone injecting their own feelings into it, and trying to substitute emotions for facts? Nah, probably not....


----------



## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> My,my, what a zoo we have since this story hit the board. We got every bigot here advocating using young Black males for target practice by armed vigilantes, and we got the resident Leftiists ready to form a lynch mob and administer "justice" themselves; we got Marc, who normally is relatively sane, and civil even if you disagree with him, suddenly foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog and advocating street justice....I tell you what, if that many of you no longer want to use the judicial process, how about, we just take the police of the streets and keep the military in their barracks, while the rest of us just go ahead and shoot whoever we don't like, can't stand, or whatever; and when it's all over, the survivors (if any) can try putting the country back together-what's left of it? Would that be satisfactory to all of you on both sides who want to just get the guns or the ropes, and have at it? Makes as much sense as decrying vigilante justice on one hand, while advocating a return to lynching with the other, if you ask me. Can't we please, please, just have a civili discussion of this case for a few minutes, without everyone injecting their own feelings into it, and trying to substitute emotions for facts? Nah, probably not....


Mob rule.

Awesome, ain't it?


----------



## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> My,my, what a zoo we have since this story hit the board. We got every bigot here advocating using young Black males for target practice by armed vigilantes, and we got the resident Leftiists ready to form a lynch mob and administer "justice" themselves; we got Marc, who normally is relatively sane, and civil even if you disagree with him, suddenly foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog and advocating street justice....I tell you what, if that many of you no longer want to use the judicial process, how about, we just take the police of the streets and keep the military in their barracks, while the rest of us just go ahead and shoot whoever we don't like, can't stand, or whatever; and when it's all over, the survivors (if any) can try putting the country back together-what's left of it? Would that be satisfactory to all of you on both sides who want to just get the guns or the ropes, and have at it? Makes as much sense as decrying vigilante justice on one hand, while advocating a return to lynching with the other, if you ask me. Can't we please, please, just have a civili discussion of this case for a few minutes, without everyone injecting their own feelings into it, and trying to substitute emotions for facts? Nah, probably not....



All true. Unemotional response: why wasn't more forensic evidence retrieved? Funding maybe?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> All true. Unemotional response: why wasn't more forensic evidence retrieved? Funding maybe?



The Az Ice Tea Can
Martin Body
Single shell casing
Readily surrendered weapon 

What else is there ?


----------



## Conservative (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Si, the more facts that come out in front of the SEMINOLE COUNTY Grand Jury, the better.
> ...



how many of those stitches did you pull out of your ass?


----------



## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > My,my, what a zoo we have since this story hit the board. We got every bigot here advocating using young Black males for target practice by armed vigilantes, and we got the resident Leftiists ready to form a lynch mob and administer "justice" themselves; we got Marc, who normally is relatively sane, and civil even if you disagree with him, suddenly foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog and advocating street justice....I tell you what, if that many of you no longer want to use the judicial process, how about, we just take the police of the streets and keep the military in their barracks, while the rest of us just go ahead and shoot whoever we don't like, can't stand, or whatever; and when it's all over, the survivors (if any) can try putting the country back together-what's left of it? Would that be satisfactory to all of you on both sides who want to just get the guns or the ropes, and have at it? Makes as much sense as decrying vigilante justice on one hand, while advocating a return to lynching with the other, if you ask me. Can't we please, please, just have a civili discussion of this case for a few minutes, without everyone injecting their own feelings into it, and trying to substitute emotions for facts? Nah, probably not....
> ...


What "more forensic" evidence are you talking about?

Are you privy to any forensic reports?


----------



## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > All true. Unemotional response: why wasn't more forensic evidence retrieved? Funding maybe?
> ...



BAC/drug tests on killer, killer's clothing, witness BAC & drug tests, polygraph tests of willing witnesses. DNA samples, voice stress tests, the list can go on.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...


It's confirmed.  You ARE intentionally obtuse.

That is dishonest.

Yet again:  NO BAC tests can be done on ANYONE without probable cause or their consent.  IT IS ILLEGAL to do so.


What DNA samples?  And why?

What polygraph tests?  Why?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...



have to arrest to take BAC/drug
killers clothing = had it
witness BAC / drug = wut
DNA on AZ Tea Can
polygraph witness ?  are they lying ?
Voice Stress Test = wut


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## MarcATL (Mar 22, 2012)

Zimmerman should do the world a favor...hang himself like Judas.


----------



## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



No request for same noted on the PARTIAL POLICE report. In Florida you agree to submit to one if you are driving a vehicle.


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...


The witnesses weren't driving a vehicle, were they?

And, without probable cause or consent, IT IS ILLEGAL to do BAC tests on anyone.

And, do you have a link to where drivers in Florida must submit to a BAC test if they are driving?


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## Ravi (Mar 22, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree that the law is worded poorly.  But can anyone really believe that the intent of the legislature was to create a carte blanche in the form of any old claim to "self defense" that would completely preempt any further investigation or prosecution?
> ...


"the black" wasn't assualted? He was killed. And you don't know if he was assaulted before he was killed.


----------



## The Gadfly (Mar 22, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...


Ravi, Right there in the last sentence is the problem. Now, much as we might *think* that Zimmerman *likely* assaulted Martin, BEFORE Martin struck him (with the can?) the first time, we have no witness to that, and thus no way to prove it (unless a bruise or something similar shows up on the autopsy report). While such an act by Zimmerman IS one plausible explanation for why Martin struck Zimmerman, there's another that is also plausible: Martin became angry and attacked Zimmerman as a result of the verbal confrontation. Two plausible explanations for an act we know occurred, (Martin DID strike Zimmerman) equals reasonable doubt, as to *why* it occurred, and on that basis, Zimmerman's allegation probably holds up, if it comes to a trial. It doesn't matter, that if I were a betting man, I'd bet that Zimmerman grabbed, or tried to grab (i.e. assaulted) Martin first; Zimmerman claims he did not, there's no proof that he did, and so there's reasonable doubt, and distasteful as it may be considering the entirety of his actions, in a trial, Zimmerman has to be given the benefit of it.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...




i
I think it's most likely a teenager struck a fatter older man first. 

So Martin most likely struck Zimmerman because we have the girlfriend saying Martin first asked Zimmerman "Why are you following me?" - so we know from his girlfriend that Martin initiated a verbal confrontation with Zimmerman. 

Knowing this/ believing the girlfriend/ - it makes sense to think Martin was ballsy enough to strike Zimmerman first. *Zimmerman knows he is armed, Martin does not. Zimmerman feels safe.* MArtin most likely does what lots of teenagers do when confronted by older pudgy guys...

and it ends in tragedy. and people here ad elsewhere get hard-ons playing favorites


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## Peach (Mar 22, 2012)

Dante said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



This despite the fact Martin had no history of violence, WAS tested for drugs and alcohol, and phone calls indicate he was HIDING from Zimmerman. Zimmerman had violent incidents in HIS past, yet the conclusion is MARTIN attacked. We will learn what the Grand Jury concludes with STALE evidence, thanks to the Sanford police.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > The Gadfly said:
> ...




male teens are more aggressive. Zimmerman has no history of pulling a gun on people does he? you sound like the people that blame prostitutes for getting raped


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## Si modo (Mar 22, 2012)

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > The Gadfly said:
> ...


Of course Martin was tested for alcohol and drugs....it's standard in an autopsy and autopsies are standard in fatal shootings.



So many have already told you that.


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 23, 2012)

Any citizen has the right to stop another to make a citizen's arrest but excessive force cannot be used even if you are an off-duty police officer. Zimmerman previously called police and complained about burglars in the area and he reasonably suspected that the teen was 'up to no good' and tried to make a citizen's arrest and the teen obviously resisted and one witness claimed that Martin was on the top beating Zimmerman at some point of the confrontation. But the instigator of a confrontation cannot claim self-defense under the stand-your-ground law and Zimmerman made a mistake when he pursued Martin despite 911 operators instructing that they did not require him to do so.


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## Si modo (Mar 23, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> Any citizen has the right to stop another to make a citizen's arrest but excessive force cannot be used even if you are an off-duty police officer. Zimmerman previously called police and complained about burglars in the area and he reasonably suspected that the teen was 'up to no good' and tried to make a citizen's arrest and the teen obviously resisted and one witness claimed that Martin was on the top beating Zimmerman at some point of the confrontation. But the instigator of a confrontation cannot claim self-defense under the stand-your-ground law and Zimmerman made a mistake when he pursued Martin despite 911 operators instructing that they did not require him to do so.


Nothing in the Florida law indicates that an instigator, whether Zimmerman or Martin, is exempt from protection under the stand your ground law.


Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

Of course Martin was tested for alcohol and drugs....it's standard in an autopsy and autopsies are standard in fatal shootings.


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 23, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Nothing in the Florida law indicates that an instigator, whether Zimmerman or Martin, is exempt from protection under the stand your ground law.



776.013  Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.

This law is only applicable to the situation involving "the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle" and you cannot claim self-defense to use deadly force if you get into a street fight in public places, which is why Zimmerman should never have left his vehicle.  

(5)&#8195;As used in this section, the term:
(a)&#8195;Dwelling means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b)&#8195;Residence means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c)&#8195;Vehicle means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.


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## Si modo (Mar 23, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing in the Florida law indicates that an instigator, whether Zimmerman or Martin, is exempt from protection under the stand your ground law.
> ...


No, the law is not only applicable to a dwelling, etc.

Here is the statute itself (Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine):

(1)&#8195;A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

....

(3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

....​


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 23, 2012)

Si modo said:


> (3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.



This section of the law does allow anyone to use deadly force if he thinks it's necessary to defend himself in any place but Zimmerman did not act reasonably when he left his vehicle to pursue the teen. Sen. Chris Smith said he is preparing a bill that would not allow a self-defense claim in cases where the shooter appeared to provoke the victim.


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## Ravi (Mar 23, 2012)

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


Zimmerman has a history of attacking people.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

Dante said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Not to mention that two years ago Martin was recorded as being 6'2" and 160 pounds, and rumor was that his alst measurements as a senior on the high school football team placed him at 6'3" and nearly 200 pounds. No one can confirm that because the school he attends has sealed his records. (For a bunch of people that run off at the mouth so much about transparency, the libtards sure seem to like sealing records from the public alot). Zimmerman was 260, but stood only 5'2"; a butter ball whose physique likely emboldened Martin.

Zimmerman said he was hit from behind and his bleeding injuries to the back of his head support that claim. Sounds like Martin gave him the old 'walk away then turn and hit' ploy most kids that grow up on the street learn. Never turn your back to a thug or anyone else that is getting froggy with you and might jump.

But the libtards dont give a shit about Martin or Zimmerman or the right to an assumption of innosence.

The target here is the repeal of 'stand  your ground' laws and the Truth will just have to be raped while Zimmerman gets lynched if that is what it takes for the libtards to get their way.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Zimmerman has a history of attacking people.



Bullshit.

He was never convicted in court.

Any other time you libtard stupid asses would be screaming that priors are irrelevant, but now they are because it suits you.

Just  like the feminazi mantra 'a woman would never lie about rape' got buried deep during Clintons tenure.

Bunch of fucking hypocritical lying bastards.


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## Ravi (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > The Gadfly said:
> ...



Why do you lie? He was a junior and he wasn't on the high school football team. Why don't you just call him a gorilla like you want to? I bet you'd see a black toddler and insist he was a hulking seven foot tall killer.


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## Ravi (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Zimmerman has a history of attacking people.
> ...


That he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he doesn't have a history


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Convictions are the only history that is relevant, dipstick.

A cop can arrest you for ANYTHING, but it doesnt mean that you actually did jackshit.


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## bodecea (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Apparently they can't arrest you for shooting an unarmed black kid.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Why do you lie?



Disagreement with your bullshit does not equate to a lie.




Ravi said:


> He was a junior and he wasn't on the high school football team.



He was 17 and was on the high school football team, ignoramus.




Ravi said:


> Why don't you just call him a gorilla like you want to?



Projection much?




Ravi said:


> I bet you'd see a black toddler and insist he was a hulking seven foot tall killer.



It is interesting that when libtards like you cant find the facts to support themselves you just make shit up and project it on the ones arguing with you.

Stupid does not even come close to describing that sort of behavior.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

bodecea said:


> Apparently they can't arrest you for shooting an unarmed black kid.



Of course they can, and they do.

They just dont do it when that kid is around 6'2", is on the high school football team and knocked his victim to the ground from behind and then started punching and kicking the victim.

I'll ask you the same question I have yet to see any libtard answer:

How bad does a person have to be beaten before they are allowed to use a gun to defend themselves?

Till they're bleeding on the ground?

Till they are unconscious?

No right at all?

I am fairly sure your just posturing to have some imagined role on the lynch Zimmerman bandwagon, but just in case you are actually thinking about the remote possibility of fairness here.  

lol, I know, who am I kidding? You dont give a shit.


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## Ravi (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you lie?
> ...


I see you couldn't answer the question.



> Trayvon was 6-foot-3, 140 pounds, a former Optimist League football player with a narrow frame and a voracious appetite. He wanted to fly or fix planes, struggled in chemistry, loved sports video games and went to New York for the first time two summers ago, seeing the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty and a Broadway musical, The Addams Family. He hoped to attend the University of Miami or Florida A&M University, enamored by both schools bright orange and green hues.



Trayvon Martin: a typical teen who loved video games, looked forward to prom - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

In case you are too stupid to know what Optimist football is, look it up.

He was a tall, skinny teen. And you are a racist liar.


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## Katzndogz (Mar 23, 2012)

This is pretty much what a leftist lynch mob looks like.   No facts, not the truth, certainly not the evidence, just a mindless lynch mob.

I haven't seen the likes of this since the Duke Lacross players were on trial.


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## OldUSAFSniper (Mar 23, 2012)

Wow... this is simply amazing.  I sit here and I watch the hysterical left scream about how this is so horrible.  And I agree with them in one respect... IT IS HORRIBLE.  This kid did not deserve to die.  He did not deserve to be accosted by this guy and then shot.  If Zimmerman is guilty of something illegal, then prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and if that includes the BIG SLEEP, then so be it.  But to turn this into a left vs right issue is just ludicrous.  But then again, I am dealing with the hysterical left...

I have to tell you... if I could be heard over the ridiculous wailing and knashing of teeth and accusations of "RACIST" (The lefts worn out label for those who do not agree with them).  The "stand your ground" Florida law does not apply to this situation.  Zimmerman did NOT stand his ground.  Despite being told otherwise by the dispatcher, he got out of his vehicle and he pursued the young man.  How is that "stand your ground"?  The simple fact is that it isn't.  The law was designed so that if you are on your property or out in public and someone APPOACHES YOU AND you feel that your life is threatened, you are not required to RETREAT before applying deadly force.

Also, the Sanford police department did not arrest Zimmerman.  Okay, they go to the scene and the kid is dead and the ONLY WITNESS to what occurred is Zimmerman.  What did he tell the cops originally?  Kind of tough to find probable cause for an arrest when your only witness at the moment turns out to be the accused.  Not too many people come right out and tell you AT THE SCENE, "Yeah, I shot him and had no reason to."  Watch NCIS too much perhaps?  Sometimes it takes days and days and days to collect all the information and then decide what to do.  And usually it's not the cops who decide, it's the local District Attorney.  Could they have done better... ABSOLUTELY.  But to say that the Sanford Police Department is patently racist because they didn't make an arrest at the scene is extreme ignorance at the very least.

You know here in Tulsa, there was a 19 year old white kid and his 18 year old white girl friend.  They were attending Rhema Bible College and they just happened to be at a park walking around the trails.  Two black men, ages 19 and 21 confront them.  Didn't know these two from Adam, had never met them before, just randomly picked them out.  These maggots make them kneel down and execute both of them with a single shot to the back of the head.  Then the guys drive off in the kids car.  Funny, I don't remember any marches or protests or anything else.  I didn't see the Reverand Al organizing a "million Bible student" march down Main Street.

What I would hate to be is the detective and the Chief of the Sanford PD.  No matter what they did, how they did it, or anything else... They are going to be wrong.  This is a politcal assasination.  They're toast...


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## Katzndogz (Mar 23, 2012)

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Wow... this is simply amazing.  I sit here and I watch the hysterical left scream about how this is so horrible.  And I agree with them in one respect... IT IS HORRIBLE.  This kid did not deserve to die.  He did not deserve to be accosted by this guy and then shot.  If Zimmerman is guilty of something illegal, then prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and if that includes the BIG SLEEP, then so be it.  But to turn this into a left vs right issue is just ludicrous.  But then again, I am dealing with the hysterical left...
> 
> I have to tell you... if I could be heard over the ridiculous wailing and knashing of teeth and accusations of "RACIST" (The lefts worn out label for those who do not agree with them).  The "stand your ground" Florida law does not apply to this situation.  Zimmerman did NOT stand his ground.  Despite being told otherwise by the dispatcher, he got out of his vehicle and he pursued the young man.  How is that "stand your ground"?  The simple fact is that it isn't.  The law was designed so that if you are on your property or out in public and someone APPOACHES YOU AND you feel that your life is threatened, you are not required to RETREAT before applying deadly force.
> 
> ...



You won't see this kind of phonied up outrage when it's a white victim.  There is an acceptance of reality that the white victim deserved it for being white.   No one says it, but it's there.   You won't see anyone demanding "justice" for a white victim.  Indeed people would be embarassed to say that.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> He was a tall, skinny teen. And you are a racist liar.



Other reports say he was on the high school football team, and it doesnt matter anyuway as you admit he was 6'3", but 140? 

Jesus Christ, my daughter weighs 120 at 5'3" and she is a gymnist!

You are so stupid you cant see the implausible factoids you throw around like horse manure on a farm.

BTW, dumbass, do you have any clue why the high school sealed Martins records?

Could it be that there are facts there that would undermine this witch hunt for Zimmerman?

ESADIAF.


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## Intense (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > He was a tall, skinny teen. And you are a racist liar.
> ...



I would suspect that the Records are sealed because he was a Minor.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Wow... this is simply amazing.  I sit here and I watch the hysterical left scream about how this is so horrible.  And I agree with them in one respect... IT IS HORRIBLE.  This kid did not deserve to die.  He did not deserve to be accosted by this guy and then shot.  If Zimmerman is guilty of something illegal, then prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and if that includes the BIG SLEEP, then so be it.  But to turn this into a left vs right issue is just ludicrous.  But then again, I am dealing with the hysterical left...



The police saw no reason to arrest Zimmerman because he had a bleeding wound to the back of his head, a broken bleeding nose, and physical evidence that showed he was on the ground with someone on top of him.

As to who accosted who, there is no evidence either way, but Martins girlfriend did say that Trayvon approached Zimmerman first and asked him why he was following him.



OldUSAFSniper said:


> I have to tell you... if I could be heard over the ridiculous wailing and knashing of teeth and accusations of "RACIST" (The lefts worn out label for those who do not agree with them).  The "stand your ground" Florida law does not apply to this situation.  Zimmerman did NOT stand his ground.  Despite being told otherwise by the dispatcher, he got out of his vehicle and he pursued the young man.  How is that "stand your ground"?  The simple fact is that it isn't.  The law was designed so that if you are on your property or out in public and someone APPOACHES YOU AND you feel that your life is threatened, you are not required to RETREAT before applying deadly force.



You have the sequence wrong here, as I understand it. Zimmerman had gotten out of his vehicle and began pursuing Martin and the dispatcher asked him what he ws doing, you could hear him pant, he said he was chasing the kid, and the dispatcher said dont do that.

Zimmerman agreed and then hung up. According to Zimmerman he then was going back to his truck when the kid approached him and asked why he was chasing. Zimmerman then asked him what he was doing in the area, they finished the conversation and Zimmerman resumed heading to his truck and wanted to read the name on a street sign. Then BOOM he got hit in the back of the head, knocked to the ground with a bleeding wound and then Martin began beating him. Zimmerman yelled for help but no help came and finally shot the kid to stop him.




OldUSAFSniper said:


> Also, the Sanford police department did not arrest Zimmerman.  Okay, they go to the scene and the kid is dead and the ONLY WITNESS to what occurred is Zimmerman.  What did he tell the cops originally?  Kind of tough to find probable cause for an arrest when your only witness at the moment turns out to be the accused.



There was another witness who saw Zimmerman on the ground and Martin kicking him and punching him.




OldUSAFSniper said:


> But to say that the Sanford Police Department is patently racist because they didn't make an arrest at the scene is extreme ignorance at the very least.



But typical for the hysterical racist libtards.




OldUSAFSniper said:


> You know here in Tulsa, there was a 19 year old white kid and his 18 year old white girl friend.  They were attending Rhema Bible College and they just happened to be at a park walking around the trails.  Two black men, ages 19 and 21 confront them.  Didn't know these two from Adam, had never met them before, just randomly picked them out.  These maggots make them kneel down and execute both of them with a single shot to the back of the head.  Then the guys drive off in the kids car.  Funny, I don't remember any marches or protests or anything else.  I didn't see the Reverand Al organizing a "million Bible student" march down Main Street.



Well, dont hold your breath.

This is the true nature of the leftist Jacobin scum:
Oz Conservative: Did South Africa's President sing a kill the Boer song?


> Did South Africa's President sing a kill the Boer song?
> 
> This has not been in the news at all in Australia. It appears that the South African President, Jacob Zuma, sang a song earlier this year which contains the phrase "kill the Boer" - the term "Boer" referring either to farmers or to white men.
> 
> ...



Yeah dont wait for any leftwing nutballs or Hollyweird hypocrits to bring this up any time soon.


OldUSAFSniper said:


> What I would hate to be is the detective and the Chief of the Sanford PD.  No matter what they did, how they did it, or anything else... They are going to be wrong.  This is a politcal assasination.  They're toast...



The libtards are quite OK with human sacrifice if it advances the cause. (Neocons too while on the topic just for fairness.)


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 23, 2012)

Intense said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



So why didnt the school seal the records of the Georgia high school kids that held a private prom party and got reamed as racists for not inviting any blacks? Their names and personal info was all over the place.

The press could get this information if they wanted to. But it doesnt support their crusade against legal self defense.


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## Intense (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



Apples and Oranges. Still, my personal opinion is that it was wrong to release the personal information of Minors, placing them at risk. Two wrongs don't make a Right. 

That said, study of Personal History should be relevant to Official Investigation, which should not include Us at this time.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 23, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > (3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
> ...



That's all well and good, but if that was enacted tomorrow, the current statute, not the new one, would STILL apply to this case, and it says nothing about "provocation", no matter what Sen. Smith  (or you) WISHES it said. The U.S. Constitution specifically forbids any _Ex Post Facto_ law. Google it, if you don't know what that means.


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## Katzndogz (Mar 23, 2012)

Maybe the whole idea of a trial needs to be scrapped for the leftist vision of popular opinion.   Just quick sham trials with a foregone outcome.


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> The police saw no reason to arrest Zimmerman because he had a bleeding wound to the back of his head, a broken bleeding nose, and physical evidence that showed he was on the ground with someone on top of him. As to who accosted who, there is no evidence either way, but Martins girlfriend did say that Trayvon approached Zimmerman first and asked him why he was following him.



It looks like Zimmerman was violently attacked by the teen who was taller than him and he reasonably believed that his life was threatened. Martin was suspended from high school and he was also looking for trouble when he went outside the gated community at night. 

Obama: "When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together, federal, state and local to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened."


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > The police saw no reason to arrest Zimmerman because he had a bleeding wound to the back of his head, a broken bleeding nose, and physical evidence that showed he was on the ground with someone on top of him. As to who accosted who, there is no evidence either way, but Martins girlfriend did say that Trayvon approached Zimmerman first and asked him why he was following him.
> ...



Do you have any proof of the rubbish you posted?


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## Katzndogz (Mar 23, 2012)

The problem is, no one is willing to find out exactly what happened.   If, in finding out exactly what happened, it is discovered that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, then what?   Should Zimmerman be found guilty whether or not he is guilty simply to satisfy some element of social justice?


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## Si modo (Mar 23, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> ThirdTerm said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...


The police report indicates that Zimmerman had wounds on his head - treated at the scene, so not so serious - but I haven't seen anything that indicates the boy was suspended from HS or looking for trouble.  The kid WAS looking for Skittles and iced tea.  Yeah, real trouble there.  

The kid was minding his own business.  The freaky Zimmerman thought he was up to no good, followed him (within the law), somehow got head injuries, and ended up shooting him.

And, the law seems to allow for this.

That is very wrong, in my book.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The problem is, no one is willing to find out exactly what happened.   If, in finding out exactly what happened, it is discovered that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, then what?   Should Zimmerman be found guilty whether or not he is guilty simply to satisfy some element of social justice?



I need you to explain to me how he was acting in self defense if he himself was following this boy and stalking him.


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 23, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> ThirdTerm said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I still cannot post links but the US media reported that he was suspended from Michael M. Krop Senior High in Miami and his parents refused to elaborate on the issue. Martin was visiting with his father living in a gated community and he did not know the area well. 

"Trayvon Martin was suspended from the school at the time of his death. The school and the teens family have refused to comment on the reason for the suspension. The Orlando Sentinel has reported Martin was suspended for tardiness, not misbehavior."


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

Si modo said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > ThirdTerm said:
> ...



The thing that bothers me Si is people are making up things about Trayvon like him being a gangster or suspended from school without any proof whatsoever.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > ThirdTerm said:
> ...



Wow suspended for tardiness, wow watch out guys we have the next Frank Lucas on our hands here.


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## Si modo (Mar 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The problem is, no one is willing to find out exactly what happened.   If, in finding out exactly what happened, it is discovered that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, then what?   Should Zimmerman be found guilty whether or not he is guilty simply to satisfy some element of social justice?


Never should the process of justice be set aside for that reason.

We change the laws, but not in the court.  We change them where they are supposed to be changed - in the legislature.


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## emilynghiem (Mar 23, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > old navy said:
> ...



Even the Second Amendment about the right to bear arms
states this in a context of a "well regulated militia."

The Constitution itself is not a permit, but it is a written
agreement between people and government to defend the rule of law,
and not to abuse authority to subvert the natural rights of man.

All Military and Officers of the Law 
take a sworn oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.
All citizens bearing arms should take the same
oath and training as any other armed officer.

Again, that's not a permit, but an agreement to
uphold common laws, including due process and equal protection.

We all need to agree what the rules are in order
to live in a civilized democratic society.


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## Katzndogz (Mar 23, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is, no one is willing to find out exactly what happened.   If, in finding out exactly what happened, it is discovered that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, then what?   Should Zimmerman be found guilty whether or not he is guilty simply to satisfy some element of social justice?
> ...



If, while Zimmerman was engaged in following Martin, Martin escalated to physical contact, then Zimmerman was acting in self-defense.   It COULD be a case of following the kid "asking for trouble" but we don't have laws against asking for trouble.  Zimmerman was completely in the wrong for following Treyvon Martin, especially since he had already been told to stop by the dispatcher.  However, that STILL does not mean that the attack on Martin was racially motivated.   Would this have gone any differently had Martin been white or hispanic?  Likely no.  A white kid in this predominently black neighborhood would have been even more suspicious to a hispanic living in a mostly black gated community.


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## emilynghiem (Mar 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Maybe the whole idea of a trial needs to be scrapped for the leftist vision of popular opinion.   Just quick sham trials with a foregone outcome.



Actually, if you are going to unite the left and right,
why not bring together activists on both sides
uniting in blame against the crooks committing the break-ins
for instigating this incident?

If they would come forward, instead of committing crimes
and running from the law, then others would not have to suffer for it:
neither innocent visitors such as Martin
nor neighborhood watch volunteers such as Zimmerman
who have suffered the consequences of
fear of crime and criminals caused by "other people."

If both sides are going to blame other people in society,
they should just unite and agree to blame the SAME parties,
so we can all get along and work together to address that issue.

So let's agree to go after real criminals committing PREMEDITATED crimes,
and do something effective about THAT problem, including cleaning up
the legal system and law enforcement system that otherwise lets them run amok,
and quit fighting and killing each other 
in response which just compounds these problems even further!

Unite and fight back!
Together, as fellow Americans, not against each other!
Otherwise, the people continue to benefit
who profit from crime and these ineffective responses to it.
And the root problems will never be solved.


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## Si modo (Mar 23, 2012)

emilynghiem said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the whole idea of a trial needs to be scrapped for the leftist vision of popular opinion.   Just quick sham trials with a foregone outcome.
> ...


If we toss our founding priciples aside to satisfy a mob, we are nothing.


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

Dante said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


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## paperview (Mar 23, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > ThirdTerm said:
> ...



Don't know why they said the school refused to comment.



> Math was Trayvon's favorite subject.
> 
> 
> He liked to tinker, and  he was good with his hands. He once took apart and repaired a broken  scooter, Fulton said, and he liked to construct model cars and airplanes  and draw pictures of things he wanted to build.
> ...


Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Orlando Sentinel


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## bodecea (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently they can't arrest you for shooting an unarmed black kid.
> ...




Oh.   You were there?


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## Ariux (Mar 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The problem is, no one is willing to find out exactly what happened.   If, in finding out exactly what happened, it is discovered that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, then what?   Should Zimmerman be found guilty whether or not he is guilty simply to satisfy some element of social justice?



"Social justice" is an euphemism for left-wing discrimination and bigotry.

Age old story... A lynch mob forms and the authorities have to decide whether they're going to stand up to the lynch mob or cave.  Pontius Pilate caved.


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## bodecea (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently they can't arrest you for shooting an unarmed black kid.
> ...



BTW....LOVE how you call Zimmerman a "victim".


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## OohPooPahDoo (Mar 23, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



Florida is an equal-opportunity black shooting state - whether you are black, white, purple, or green - you're allowed to shoot blacks in florida.


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## old navy (Mar 23, 2012)

Suspended for tardiness? Man, I thought my school system was strict.


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## bodecea (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> OldUSAFSniper said:
> 
> 
> > Wow... this is simply amazing.  I sit here and I watch the hysterical left scream about how this is so horrible.  And I agree with them in one respect... IT IS HORRIBLE.  This kid did not deserve to die.  He did not deserve to be accosted by this guy and then shot.  If Zimmerman is guilty of something illegal, then prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law and if that includes the BIG SLEEP, then so be it.  But to turn this into a left vs right issue is just ludicrous.  But then again, I am dealing with the hysterical left...
> ...



And now his nose was "broken"?????   Did they take him to the hospital for Xrays for that?


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## bodecea (Mar 23, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



We get it.   You have a mega chip on your shoulder when it comes to your perceptions of black students getting away with stuff.


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## bodecea (Mar 23, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...




They  are working very very hard to make Trayvon the baddie and Zimmerman the Victim with a capital "V".


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## paperview (Mar 23, 2012)

bodecea said:


> And now his nose was "broken"?????   Did they take him to the hospital for Xrays for that?


I loved the " wanted to read the name on a street sign."  The dude has lived there for years, and has Eric Cartman-patrolled it for years.  THERE ARE THREE (Count 'em THREE!) whole streets in that entire complex. 

It must have been a difficult thing to remember, I guess.


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## paperview (Mar 23, 2012)

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Intense said:
> ...


Y a think?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

old navy said:


> Suspended for tardiness? Man, I thought my school system was strict.



Thats not uncommon, schools in my area do that as well.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

bodecea said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Yes and they are making up bullshit left and right to make it stick.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Why do you keep saying this gated community was mostly Black? that is not what I read about it, can you give me your source to confirm this?


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

paperview said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > And now his nose was "broken"?????   Did they take him to the hospital for Xrays for that?
> ...





> "I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."
> 
> "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."



form the Police Report


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## paperview (Mar 23, 2012)

Dante said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...


I read that days ago.  What is your point?


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## Ravi (Mar 23, 2012)

Intense said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


If they were even sealed. Jimmyboy has a habit of making up "facts" much like his fact that Martin was a hulking black threat....and he made that up after a few of us questioned where the can of tea that Martin supposedly used to attack was.


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## Ravi (Mar 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


IF Martin attacked Zimmerman, and that's a big IF, he was justified in doing it under the stand your ground law.


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## Peach (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...




The right of self defense of MARTIN, the VICTIM, isn't being addressed. I noted that also.


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Sure. If I think somebody is following me ,and I ask them what the fuck they are doing following me, I have every right to attack them and beat them until, they pull out a gun. Then it's a clear cut case of racism. 

We ALL know white people and Hispanics hate all black people.


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## MaryL (Mar 23, 2012)

old navy said:


> The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.



Maybe it is. The guy felt emboldened enough because he had that permit , that he pursued  and engaged a citizen that was innocent and unarmed.  If HE got a permit...this puts a cloud over the permit issue.


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

Just the facts ma'am

*from the police report written before Ravi pulled out her Nancy Grace Fan Club I.D. Credentials:*

"I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."



Ravi said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

MaryL said:


> old navy said:
> 
> 
> > The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.
> ...



Emboldened enough to stand his ground and use self defense?  

engaging people is NOT a crime. The youth started a verbal confrontation that escalated into a horrific tragedy for all concerned


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

Why would a grown man pull out a gun and shoot another person over an argument? Why would a grown man pull out a gun and shoot another person when a physical confrontation ensues?

A grown man would shoot another person during a struggle after a verbally and physically hostile youth discovers a gun on his hip. 

I feel bad for the kid. He was mad, he was angry that a Hispanic male was following him. Shit we all know Hispanic males hate black youth


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## Ravi (Mar 23, 2012)

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


I'm not responsible for your racism.


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



wow! this is a big step for you Ravi. Admitting you are not responsible for other people. 

Now we'll work on this delusion you have about saving the black man from the evil white Empire


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## The Gadfly (Mar 23, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Not unless Zimmerman attacked him first, Ravi, and that's what we don't know, and may never know with certainty. Zimmerman chasing Martin (unwise though it was) is NOT a crime. Zimmerman asking Martin what he was doing there is NOT a crime. Now IF Zimmerman did in fact grab Martin, or hit Martin, THAT would be a crime (assault and battery) and Martin could legally defend himself. However, there is (so far) no physical evidence or witness testimony that indicates Zimmerman did that. On the other hand, there is BOTH physical evidence and witness testimony that shows Martin DID strike Zimmerman-Zimmerman's injuries (as noted in the police report), and the account of an eyewitness who saw Zimmerman on the ground, on his back, with Martin punching and/or kicking him. That fact is NOT in dispute here; the only question is whether any unlawful act (assault) by Zimmerman preceded the assault by Martin.

BTW I *never* said that Martin DID IN FACT use the can of tea as a weapon: I simply laid out a scenario consistent with the known facts in which Martin COULD have done so, PROVIDED he had the can in his hand. If the can was in fact found in Martin's pocket instead of in his hand or on the ground, that scenario would be ruled out.


----------



## The Gadfly (Mar 23, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Yes HG, some people are and that's wrong. Besides, there's no need for it in the first place. The fact that Martin struck Zimmerman is not in dispute; it's confirmed by both the physical evidence and an eyewitness account. It is likewise uncontroverted that Zimmerman then shot Martin. The legal question here, is whether any evidence can be found that proves Zimmerman committed some unlawful act (such as assaulting Martin) which caused Martin to in turn assault Zimmerman in self defense. Note that chasing and verbally confronting Martin does NOT constitute a violation of law by Zimmerman (unwise though it was). On the other hand the chase and verbal confrontation (absent any physical assault) does not confer on Martin (or anyone else) the legal right to strike Zimmerman (i.e. commit assault and battery), absent an unlawful PHYSICAL  act (assault, attempted assault, presenting a weapon unlawfully,  etc.), or a direct verbal threat of force (words such as "Im going to kill you!", for example).  The way the FL statute is written, it makes no difference that Zimmerman's actions contributed (as they most certainly did) to the ultimate tragic conclusion, so long as none of his actions prior to Martin striking him were unlawful. The real irony here is that, in this particular set of circumstances, Martin's poor judgement ( continuing to hit Zimmerman, when he could have run away, after knocking him down) is punished far more by the law than Zimmerman's poor judgement (a lot less excusable in a 28 year old than a 17 year old, it would seem to me), but the way this statute is written, that's the effective outcome. The moral is that no law can be written for every conceivable circumstance; in this odd case, as Samuel Johnson once observed, "The Law is a ass", and its proper application results in an injustice.


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## sitarro (Mar 23, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also.
> 
> The asshole was out to kill somebody. Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. When you are in that positon, and you initiate the conflict, you are automatically wrong. When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, you have committed murder.



Sounds like you were there, did you tell the police what you saw?
The one actual eye witness stated that Zimmerman was hit from behind and slammed to the ground where the football player was beating the crap out of him...... he was the one screaming for help, not the football player. Sounds to me the standard apologist are assuming a lot of things that didn't happen.....ya know how they keep calling him a little boy, I read that he was 6'-3".....not a little boy.
I also don't think you have any idea what the meaning of murder is. Geraldo stated that he has told his kids to not wear hoodies or pants down below their ass, that is typical of what many criminals wear so that there face isn't photographed....... it can make you look like a suspicious person. Why would someone be wearing a hooded sweatshirt in Florida, I doubt it was below 70 degrees that night. I'm not saying that wearing a hood is a reason to get killed but it did help put him in the situation he found himself in, if you are going to dress like a gang member, others may think you are up to no good. I used to wear my hair really long, a lot was assumed about me because of that. Hell, leftist assume that if you are conservative, you are uneducated, white and racist.......that's just not true.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 24, 2012)

paperview said:


> I read that days ago.  What is your point?



His point, apparently, is that Zimmerman picks his nose, and the police did not even question him about the incident.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> engaging people is NOT a crime. The youth started a verbal confrontation that escalated into a horrific tragedy for all concerned



So, chasing someone down into someone else's back yard is "engaging" people.  Asking that person why they are following you is "starting a confrontation" that warrants being shot out of fear of bodily harm.

Do society a couple favors.  First of all, get sterilized.  We don't need you contributing to the onset of idiocracy.  Secondly, got for a walk in Zimmerman's neighborhood, and run away when you see him following you.  Then you can come back and tell us how well it went.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 24, 2012)

Dante said:


> A grown man would shoot another person during a struggle



If Zimmerman really were being so violently attacked that he needed to scream the bloody murder heard on the tapes, he wouldn't have been able to pull out his gun, much less wrestle the kid prone to shoot him in the back.



> physically hostile youth



This is nothing more than an assumption on your part, which doesn't even make sense considering all the known facts.  Even if your contention were true, and Martin did engage in hostility with Zimmerman, at most it would have been Zimmerman who would have had a reason to fear for his safety.  He was walking down the street and minding his own business, and this guy comes chasing him down for not apparent reason and corners him in someone's yard.  The simple fact of the matter is that Zimmerman chased Martin down.  Zimmerman admitted on the 911 tape that he was following after Martin.  This fact alone eliminates Zimmerman's ability to claim self defense, because he was the one who created the hostile situation.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > engaging people is NOT a crime. The youth started a verbal confrontation that escalated into a horrific tragedy for all concerned
> ...



Oh God, speaking of irony!

Inthemiddle, the did sterilize you right, when yo uwere locked up in the psycho ward eating your own poop and painting it on the walls, right?

Yes, it is legal to follow someone and go up to them and ask them a question, even if they are white and want to ask a black person a question.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> > JimBowie1958 said:
> ...



I never said anything about a can of tea, you stupid freak.

Shit acuse me of making stuff up, lol.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

paperview said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Apparently that Martin attacked Zimmerman or is that too much for your brain cell to handle?


----------



## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



No he was not, you stupid asshole. God, the stand your ground law means you defend yourself if someone attacks you. It doesnt give you the right to pre-emptively attack someone, you libtard.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Peach, where do you get the stupid ass idea that the right of self defense means that you can go up and attack a man while his back is turned to you?

God you are as stupid as the rest of the libtards.

Shit, are you THAT desperate to be told its OK your not a racist?

ROFLMAO, it wont matter deary. When they want to get you they will no matter what you say or do.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

MaryL said:


> old navy said:
> 
> 
> > The concealed carry permit is not an issue. Much more gun crime is committed by people who do not have a permit than us that do.
> ...



Only in your libtarded mind.

Martin beat Zimmerman from behind, down to the ground where he then beat him more and kicked him repeatedly. He only stopped because he got a bullet.

This is a clear case of self defense no matter how much you racist bigots want it to be murder.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



And he is not responsible for your racism, stupidity and drug induced brain damage.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > I read that days ago.  What is your point?
> ...



Because we all know nose-picking is a crime, lol.

What a loon.


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## Salt Jones (Mar 24, 2012)

Apparently Zimmerman will be MIA within the next 30 days.


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## JimBowie1958 (Mar 24, 2012)

Salt Jones said:


> Apparently Zimmerman will be MIA within the next 30 days.



Wouldnt surpise me.

With all the hatred that is being fanned at him?

Hell, he will disappear either voluntarily or involuntarily.

It's a shame that they did that to a guy who did nothing more than defend himself.


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## sitarro (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > A grown man would shoot another person during a struggle
> ...



Wow, how many assumptions are you making. Why do you think that Zimmerman was chasing the 140 pound, 6'2" football player. He said he was following him, how does that translate to chasing him? The 911 operator said that "we don't need you to do that", hardly a command to not follow what he felt was a suspicious person casing the neighborhood that had been broken into before. Why did Martin run? How did the overweight Zimmerman catch a teenage football player unless the football player circled around to attack him from the rear, standard sucker punch.  Why didn't the football player run to his father's house? 
A witness, someone that was actually there, said that he saw the guy in the red shirt on his back with another guy beating him in the face......how did that happen if Zimmerman had his gun drawn confronting the football player? 

?[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXLwGQdImoM]THE BEST STREET (SUCKER PUNCH) KNOCKS OUT - YouTube[/ame]


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## Si modo (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > I read that days ago.  What is your point?
> ...


But, the police DID question him.  The police disarmed him at the scene, had EMTs tend to his head wounds, handcuffed him, took him back to the station, and interrogated him in the interrogation room.

All in the police report.


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## Si modo (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > engaging people is NOT a crime. The youth started a verbal confrontation that escalated into a horrific tragedy for all concerned
> ...


It wasn't a back yard, it was a common area in the neighborhood.  Zimmerman received wounds while in the presence of Martin - wounds to his head that were treated on the scene by EMTs.  An eyewitness saw Zimmerman on his back just before the shooting.  Zimmerman had grass stains on his back when the cops arrived.  Zimmerman states that he called for help before the shooting and a witness statement indicates that someone was calling for help just before the gunshot.

Any reasonable person would know that there was some sort of physical interaction between the two, based on the evidence at the scene and witness statements.


Again, in the cop report.


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## Si modo (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > A grown man would shoot another person during a struggle
> ...


Where are you coming up with your 'facts' about Martin being 'wrestled to the ground'?

Martin was found face down on the ground when the cops arrived, but he had already been shot, in the chest, not in the back.

And what makes you think someone cannot pull out a gun simply because they screamed?  How are those two actions mutually exclusive?

What "chase" are you talking about?  Then let us know how following someone is prohibited by law (without a court order)?

You need to read the police report and the statute - your "facts" are wrong.


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 24, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> ThirdTerm said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



There is huge political pressure building up to charge Zimmerman and if he is going to be charged, it would be based on the premise that the stand-your-ground law does not apply when the shooter chased after the victim. So Zimmerman's lawyer is now claiming that the statute on 'stand your ground' is not really applicable to this case because it is primarily when you're in your house as I posted before.


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## Ravi (Mar 24, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


You are applying the law unequally. If Martin reasonably thought he was in danger (and it turns out that he was) he had every right to use force against him.


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## Ravi (Mar 24, 2012)

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


Yes it does....if you feel yourself in mortal danger.


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## Ravi (Mar 24, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


Where are you getting the information that he was shot in the chest, not the back?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Where are you getting the information that he was shot in the chest, not the back?



Link ? He was shot in the back ?


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## Ravi (Mar 24, 2012)

ThirdTerm said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> > ThirdTerm said:
> ...


His lawyer isn't very bright then, because "stand your ground" covers public places.

But this is interesting. If he is claiming that "stand your ground" doesn't apply there certainly should have been an arrest.


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> But this is interesting. If he is claiming that "stand your ground" doesn't apply there certainly should have been an arrest.



No link on he was shot in the back ?

Righteousness turns to fabrication to keep the emotional narrative alive.


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## Ravi (Mar 24, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > But this is interesting. If he is claiming that "stand your ground" doesn't apply there certainly should have been an arrest.
> ...


I didn't say he was shot in the back. Try reading for comprehension.

And btw, when are you going to produce evidence that Martin wasn't allowed to walk in the gated community?


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...





Ravi said:


> Where are you getting the information that he was shot in the chest, not the back?



Never said he wasn't allowed....your spinning just like the statements above.

Your emotional premise has been shot down with the words of the officials from very  progressive newspapers.


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## Si modo (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...



While not in the police report itself, it is in several news reports, so I cannot be sure of the veracity.

Here is one news report from NPR and there are several others.


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## Douger (Mar 24, 2012)

Preemptive.
Video: Fight Goes Down Over Alleged Stolen Foamposites: Thief Gets His Sneakers Took & Left Leaking On Dean College Campus!?


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## Douger (Mar 24, 2012)

Damn, He B habbin him a hoodie toooo !!!
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhGk3k6bON0615D358


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## Ravi (Mar 24, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Okay. It is odd that it isn't in the police report. Nor is the location of Zimmerman's vehicle or the location of the can of iced tea. A very sloppy investigation, imo.


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## Si modo (Mar 24, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


Yes, I also found it odd that it wasn't in the police report.  So, I'm guessing that it is either in the CSI report (the cop report says they turned the scene over to them) or it's in the medical examiner's report.  Or maybe it's in both.  I haven't seen any copies of those, so I'm guessing.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 24, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Where are you coming up with your 'facts' about Martin being 'wrestled to the ground'?



Zimmerman was seen by witnesses straddling Martin's body.



> And what makes you think someone cannot pull out a gun simply because they screamed?  How are those two actions mutually exclusive?



Have you listened to the tapes?  I'm not talking about just yelling.  I'm talking about being assaulted so badly that one, allegedly, fears for their life and screams the kind of *bloody murder* that is heard on those tapes.  That screaming came from somewhere, and if we are to believe that it is Zimmerman, as he claims, then it just doesn't make sense to not also believe that Zimmerman must have been under such intense attack that it would furthermore be nonsensical to believe that he was able to pull out his gun.



> What "chase" are you talking about?  Then let us know how following someone is prohibited by law (without a court order)?



When did I ever say that following someone is prohibited by law?  I said that when you pursue someone, you lose a claim to a "stand your ground" defense.  Zimmerman instantly became the aggressor by following Martin and starting an confrontation with him.  Stand your ground doctrine has never in history been interpreted to permit a person to create a hostile situation and then use deadly force.


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## Si modo (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Where are you coming up with your 'facts' about Martin being 'wrestled to the ground'?
> ...


Link, please.



> ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know that I can scream and do other things, like run a chainsaw through a tree trunk, at the same time - done it.  I imagine others can scream and do things at the same time, too.

Your mileage varies.



> ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Show me the Florida law that indicates one loses a claim to stand their ground if they follow someone.

Thanks.

Please, show the LAW, not what someone else has written.

The statute I see, says no such thing (previously linked to numerous times, too, by me and others).

TIA


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## OODA_Loop (Mar 24, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> I said that when you pursue someone, you lose a claim to a "stand your ground" defense.  Zimmerman instantly became the aggressor by following Martin and starting an confrontation with him.  Stand your ground doctrine has never in history been interpreted to permit a person to create a hostile situation and then use deadly force.



Following someone doesn't make you the aggressor.

If you are following someone and they attack you....you can defend yourself.


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## AquaAthena (Mar 24, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.


 
He is really half and half.....just like the president, only the shooter's father is white and mother is Peruvian. Thus half, Hispanic.


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## The Gadfly (Mar 24, 2012)

Good God, the ignorance  (and mostly WILLFUL ignorance at that) in this thread is absolutely appalling. First and foremost some of you are trying to interpret the statute, without even reading what it says-and it's been linked here enough, so that every single one of you has had an opportunity to read the damn thing-if you cared to. The fact that it does NOT say what you WISH it said, or THINK it SHOULD have said. is no excuse. Neither is the fact that it may be inconvenient to your position of argument and/or your emotional desires. The law says what it says-read it, and deal with it. All the political pressure in the world, is NOT going to change what the LAW is in this case.

Second, stop making up "facts" or assuming facts not in evidence. This case, IF it comes to trial, will be tried in a court of law, and that sort of "evidence" is completely inadmissible there. I cannot believe anyone here is so ignorant as to not know that. That goes for BOTH you vigilante bigots, and you PC witch hunters; stop it, NOW.

Last but certainly not least, to you few raving lunatics on both sides who want to administer your own brand of "justice", outside the rule of law and judicial process, and in violation of the Constitution, either get a grip on yourselves and straighten up, or get the hell out of America! This nation does not need either of your sorry species.


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## Si modo (Mar 24, 2012)

The Gadfly said:


> Good God, the ignorance  (and mostly WILLFUL ignorance at that) in this thread is absolutely appalling. First and foremost some of you are trying to interpret the statute, without even reading what it says-and it's been linked here enough, so that every single one of you has had an opportunity to read the damn thing-if you cared to. The fact that it does NOT say what you WISH it said, or THINK it SHOULD have said. is no excuse. Neither is the fact that it may be inconvenient to your position of argument and/or your emotional desires. The law says what it says-read it, and deal with it. All the political pressure in the world, is NOT going to change what the LAW is in this case.
> 
> Second, stop making up "facts" or assuming facts not in evidence. This case, IF it comes to trial, will be tried in a court of law, and that sort of "evidence" is completely inadmissible there. I cannot believe anyone here is so ignorant as to not know that. That goes for BOTH you vigilante bigots, and you PC witch hunters; stop it, NOW.
> 
> Last but certainly not least, to you few raving lunatics on both sides who want to administer your own brand of "justice", outside the rule of law and judicial process, and in violation of the Constitution, either get a grip on yourselves and straighten up, or get the hell out of America! This nation does not need either of your sorry species.


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## Sunshine (Mar 24, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > I said that when you pursue someone, you lose a claim to a "stand your ground" defense.  Zimmerman instantly became the aggressor by following Martin and starting an confrontation with him.  Stand your ground doctrine has never in history been interpreted to permit a person to create a hostile situation and then use deadly force.
> ...



Zimmerman was on the phone to 911.  Martin likely heard him, became enraged, turned, and attacked him.


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## Sunshine (Mar 24, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > What matters is the circumstances of the shooting .
> ...



The 'kid' was 6 feet tall and weighted 160 pounds.  That would make Zimmerman 12 feet tall and 320 pounds.  Whoah!


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## Dante (Mar 24, 2012)

Full-Auto said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > old navy said:
> ...



the left, the progressive left. Liberals like me would never fall for this pc bullshit. but then again, liberals like me never fall for the right wing pc bullshit either 


go figure


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## Dante (Mar 24, 2012)

LogikAndReazon said:


> and it wasnt just a murder, it was a "hate" murder..................that makes it even more terrible



*LogikAndReazon:* _"Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my ass."_

*Rocky:* Again, that trick never works.

*LogikAndReazon:* But it sure feels good.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 25, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Zimmerman was on the phone to 911.  Martin likely heard him, became enraged, turned, and attacked him.



Such an assumption is completely disproven by the tape of Martin's final phone conversation.


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## Si modo (Mar 25, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Zimmerman was on the phone to 911.  Martin likely heard him, became enraged, turned, and attacked him.
> ...


His conversation with his girlfriend is on tape?

Link, please.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 25, 2012)

Si modo said:


> I know that I can scream and do other things, like run a chainsaw through a tree trunk, at the same time - done it.  I imagine others can scream and do things at the same time, too.



How about you actually respond to what I said, instead of quoting me and giving a response that has nothing to do with what I said?  I never said that one cannot yell and do something else at the same time.  What I said is that if Zimmerman was under the kind of brutal attack that we would expect considering the kind of horrible screaming that was heard on the 911 tapes an alleged to be his, it's outright irrational to believe that, _while under such brutal assault_, he would have managed to pull out his gun.  It's also irrational to believe that such a brutal assault left Zimmerman without more substantial injuries than what he's even claimed to have.



> Show me the Florida law that indicates one loses a claim to stand their ground if they follow someone.



The problem here is that you don't have any understanding of the "stand your ground" doctrine as it has always been understood anywhere.  Stand your ground has NEVER meant that a person has the right to CREATE a hostile situation, and then respond with deadly force.  When you are the AGGRESSOR, self defense of any kind, including stand your ground, does not apply, by definition.



> Please, show the LAW, not what someone else has written.
> 
> The statute I see, says no such thing (previously linked to numerous times, too, by me and others).



You've already posted the law, why should I do it again?  Let's move on.  Let's talk about legislative intent.  In interpreting the law, the court will have to also take into account legislative intent.  The theory you are proposing cannot be possible unless we are to believe that the intent of the legislature was to establish into law permission for people to create hostile situations, by which they could then become justified to kill another person who is themselves engaged in legitimate self defense.  It's preposterous to believe that the legislature had such an intent.  Therefore, the theory that you are proposing cannot be accepted.


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## Inthemiddle (Mar 25, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> Following someone doesn't make you the aggressor.
> 
> If you are following someone and they attack you....you can defend yourself.



This is why you are an idiot.  Following someone, who is trying to evade you, and then confronting that person, DOES make you the aggressor.  They have tried to evade you, and you have confronted them.  Why does the person who tried to evade you not have a right to defend themselves also when any reasonable person would likely feel threatened in such a situation?


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## Si modo (Mar 25, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > I know that I can scream and do other things, like run a chainsaw through a tree trunk, at the same time - done it.  I imagine others can scream and do things at the same time, too.
> ...


Still, I can scream and do something else at the same time.  You can't.  Oh well.

You are assuming a lot.  Your assumptions are not equal to the truth.

And, you can't show me the Florida law that indicates following disallows protection from stand your ground.  It doesn't.

It was a simple request, but you lack of ability to show actual LAW is not surprising.

Legislative intent is ONLY probative based on rhetoric of lawmakers BEFORE the law is passed.  Not after.


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## Ariux (Mar 25, 2012)

His conversation with his girlfriend is on tape?[/quote]

Link, please.[/QUOTE]

The Africanette never called 911.  Apparently she never thought her African was in danger, at least not enough to call police.   And, only a real moron (that means you, Democrats) would doubt that she wouldn't distort the phone conversation to prevent her African from looking bad.  If he called Zimmerman a cracker, would she say so?  If he said he's going to "fuck him up", would she say so?

The African tried to intimidate Zimmerman, we know that from Zimmerman's 911 tape.  "We's coming toward me... He's checking me out..."


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## beagle9 (Mar 25, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > I know that I can scream and do other things, like run a chainsaw through a tree trunk, at the same time - done it.  I imagine others can scream and do things at the same time, too.
> ...



Responding to what is highlighted in red above!

The very fact that he was under a brutal attack, is exactly why one would pull out a gun and begin to shoot at that point, and this when one gets his hand on it finally.....sheesh!

Zimmerman claimed to have had injury's, and then detailed them for us on record ? Or was it rather reported by the SFD who treated Zimmerman, in which gave account of his injury's ? Which is it ?

You say with certainty that Zimmerman was the aggressor, but actually you don't know this to be true, but yet you choose to keep on saying it anyway, and then you base your whole arguments and speculation upon it when speaking.. Do you know something better than the witnesses, cops/investigators, SFD etc. that were on the scene that day, and also including the ones who are soon to be compiling evidence (putting the puzzel together), for a grand jury, and what they may know already? Point us to your solid evidence please...


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## Ravi (Mar 25, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Inthemiddle said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


It probably would because one doesn't follow someone that they are in mortal fear of....


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## LoneLaugher (Mar 25, 2012)

This case is bringing out the vomitous nature of many nutters.


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## PredFan (Mar 25, 2012)

Ariux said:


> His conversation with his girlfriend is on tape?



Link, please.[/QUOTE]

The Africanette never called 911.  Apparently she never thought her African was in danger, at least not enough to call police.   And, only a real moron (that means you, Democrats) would doubt that she wouldn't distort the phone conversation to prevent her African from looking bad.  If he called Zimmerman a cracker, would she say so?  If he said he's going to "fuck him up", would she say so?

The African tried to intimidate Zimmerman, we know that from Zimmerman's 911 tape.  "We's coming toward me... He's checking me out..."[/QUOTE]

Dammit I don't want to give any cudos to this racist piece of shit, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. No rep for you though.


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## PredFan (Mar 25, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> This case is bringing out the vomitous nature of many nutters.



That it is.


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## Si modo (Mar 25, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Inthemiddle said:
> ...


Do you find it possible that someone can commence following another without any fear?

I do.

Do you find it possible that the follower, upon catching up to and encountering the 'followee', can THEN be in fear?

I do.


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## Ravi (Mar 25, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


Sure, but it doesn't fit with Zimmerman's explanations. You don't call 911 and then follow someone if you fear them.


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## Peach (Mar 25, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...




Some people might but it indicates to many Zimmerman had no fear, he was armed and ready to draw obviously.......


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## Peach (Mar 25, 2012)

Ariux said:


> His conversation with his girlfriend is on tape?



Link, please.[/QUOTE]

The Africanette never called 911.  Apparently she never thought her African was in danger, at least not enough to call police.   And, only a real moron (that means you, Democrats) would doubt that she wouldn't distort the phone conversation to prevent her African from looking bad.  If he called Zimmerman a cracker, would she say so?  If he said he's going to "fuck him up", would she say so?

The African tried to intimidate Zimmerman, we know that from Zimmerman's 911 tape.  "We's coming toward me... He's checking me out..."[/QUOTE]

Africanette never called 911. Apparently she never thought her African 

BOTH are Americans..................................


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## Si modo (Mar 25, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


That's right.  You don't usually follow if you fear them.

Do you find it possible that upon encountering someone you didn't fear that you can then fear them?

I do.


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## Si modo (Mar 25, 2012)

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


It indicates that Zimmerman didn't fear Martin when he decided to follow him.

It doesn't indicate anything about Zimmerman's emotional state once he encountered Martin.  Nothing at all.


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## Zoom (Mar 25, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Is actually hispanic.
> 
> suchttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.storyk it race baiters.



I will take a wild guess here and say he self identifies himself as a white guy.  I would bet the farm on that.

In reality, it doesnt matter to me.  He is a racist.  He called that kid a "coon" then shot and killed him after stalking him.


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## beagle9 (Mar 25, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


Wrong, if you are in fear of someone or you are highly suspicious of them, then you sure will call 9-11 first (in order to get help on the way), and this before you start to follow or continue survielence on someone in which you do fear, and for whom may take you into the unknown in which is found in that fear.

If someone is breaking into your house, the first thing you do is call 9-11 to get help on the way, and then you go out with fear in your heart, and many times a gun, baseball bat and/or etc. in hand, to try and see who it is that may be breaking into your house....


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## beagle9 (Mar 25, 2012)

Zoom said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Is actually hispanic.
> ...




Called him a coon ? Link please..................The above statement in red, is racist I hope you know that....


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## LoneLaugher (Mar 25, 2012)

Late to the party and demanding that the band repeats the set.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 25, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> What matters is the circumstances of the shooting and the fact that the local police ignored an obvious murder. The race of the individuals involved are critical because of it being in the south. Were it anywhere else, and the people involved of the same or differant races, and the local police reacted in this manner, it would warrant federal investigation, also.
> 
> The asshole was out to kill somebody. Had a concealed carry permit, and was packing heat. When you are in that positon, and you initiate the conflict, you are automatically wrong. When you have just been told to back off, as was the case here, you have committed murder.


Really he was out to kill someone? Are police officers out to kill someone because they carry a firearm?


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## Si modo (Mar 25, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> Late to the party and demanding that the band repeats the set.


It's all recorded.  Don't be so lazy and expect others to catch you up.

I know you can do it!  Trust in yourself.  Just a few clicks, a few scrolls, and that's all....other than the reading, that is.


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## Ravi (Mar 26, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


Yep. If someone is following you, in Florida, you are free to beat the shit out of them if you feel threatened. So I can certainly see that the possibility of Zimmerman becoming afraid exists. But the fact that he followed him would tend to negate his immunity under stand your ground.


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


How so?  Can you show what part of the law disallows protection or exemption from the law if one follows, please.


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## Ravi (Mar 26, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


It doesn't need to be a part of the law. Following someone indicates an aggressive move. Stand your ground wouldn't cover it. Self-defense might, but a self-defense claim would require a trial.


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


I'm not seeing that exemption (section 2 lists the exemptions) in the law:

(1)&#8195;A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

    (a)&#8195;The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that persons will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b)&#8195;The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(2)&#8195;The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

    (a)&#8195;The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
    (b)&#8195;The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
    (c)&#8195;The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
    (d)&#8195;The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

(3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(4)&#8195;A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a persons dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

(5)&#8195;As used in this section, the term:

    (a)&#8195;Dwelling means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
    (b)&#8195;Residence means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
    (c)&#8195;Vehicle means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.


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## Ravi (Mar 26, 2012)

Following isn't defensive.


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Following isn't defensive.


It's not.

But, he wasn't face to face when following.

I can follow someone, then when I catch up and they turn to me to ask me why I'm following, I'm no longer following.

What happened after that caused Zimmerman to end up on his back on the ground and with head wounds.


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## LoneLaugher (Mar 26, 2012)

Like ramming ones head into a wall of stupid.


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> Like ramming ones head into a wall of stupid.


What is?


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## LoneLaugher (Mar 26, 2012)

Discussing something with someone who refuses to admit when they are wrong. 

You have suspended logic and reality by pretending that following someone is not an aggressive act that negates any claims of subsequent fear for ones well being. 

You fail to grasp that the person being followed, who might very well feel afraid and threatened, is within his/her rights if they attack the follower under the law in question.

This has been patiently explained to you. Yet, you hang on to your error for dear life. 

That is what.


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> Discussing something with someone who refuses to admit when they are wrong.
> 
> You have suspended logic and reality by pretending that following someone is not an aggressive act that negates any claims of subsequent fear for ones well being.
> 
> ...


Really?  I've said that following is not an aggressive act?

You'll link to that post of mine, right?



Kneejerk.


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## LoneLaugher (Mar 26, 2012)

I write full sentences. Please be kind and read them as such. Thanks.


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

LoneLaugher said:


> I write full sentences. Please be kind and read them as such. Thanks.


Really? I've said that following is not an aggressive act?

I'm still waiting for you to link to that post of mine.

(I know you can't, but I can wait.)


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## beagle9 (Mar 26, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



There is no way that this statement can be true in which I have highlighted in red above as written by Ravi....How come you (Ravi) give Trayvon this right to somehow beat someone up, just because he *((((felt threatened))))* according to your words above, but the one getting the beat down had no rights to defend himself ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


Right.  There is no "who started it" section in the stand your ground law.

It's a bad law, IMO, and not just for that.


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## beagle9 (Mar 26, 2012)

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



I have a problem with this area of the law in which I have highlighted in red...

The person who uses defensive *force* knew or had *reason to believe *that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or *had occurred*

*Reason to believe *??????? Ok, so what (((if))) the reasoning in the belief was wrong, where by shouldn't it say that "if the person has direct knowledge of", instead of this "reason to believe" stuff, as is written in the law above?

And what about this "or had occured", is this saying that if someone told me that my rims were stolen by someone else (meaning had occurred already) then I can go and beat the person down with a supposed defensive force used, instead of calling the law first ? This area in that law above gives way to much leadway for wrongful interpretation by those who may be looking at this law or have knowledge of it, in which has these broad kinds of wordings written into it....Am I wrong in my looking at this in this way, when I came upon this as is written into the statute that was posted above yall ?


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## Si modo (Mar 26, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


I think it's a very bad law for so many reasons.  That's another.


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