# Billy Graham Purchases Ads



## PoliticalChic (Oct 19, 2012)

1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.




2. "As I approach my 94th birthday, I realize this election could be my last."

3.  "I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel.

4.  I urge you to vote for those who protect the sanctity of life and support the biblical definition of marriage between a man and a woman.

5. Vote for biblical values this November 6, and pray with me that America will remain one nation under God."





6. The ad hit the prominent papers Wednesday and Thursday, and could hit a dozen more newspapers, a week after the famed evangelist met with Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney at Graham's Montreat, North Carolina, home and less than a month after his son Franklin Graham issued a full-throated endorsement of Romney in a USA Today opinion piece.

7. "This ad is consistent with both the mission of the BGEA and Billy Graham's personal methodology to diligently and consistently remain politically neutral and nonpartisan throughout his public ministry," Ross said.

8. "Against the backdrop of moral decline and a cultural shift in our nation that reflects timely issues, Mr. Graham's quotation in the ad is an extension of his faithful preaching of a timeless message and strong stand on biblical values for more than six decades.""
Billy Graham buys election ads after Romney meeting  CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

"Influential pastor Billy Graham is signaling to evangelical Christians that they shouldn't hesitate to vote for Mitt Romney because of his Mormon religion, further cementing Romney's strong standing with the key Republican voting bloc.

The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association this week removed Mormonism from its list of religious cults, the Charlotte Observer reports. Mormons consider themselves Christians, though not all of their beliefs align with mainstream Christian doctrine."
Billy Graham's organization removes Mormonism from its list of cults - CBS News


Will it influence evangelical Christians?


I wonder if my buddy Joe will stop hatin' on Mormons now?


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2012)

LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics? 

People like Graham are why I changed my registration from Independent to Democrat many years ago. I really don't like the idea of an American Taliban.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> "Influential pastor Billy Graham is signaling to evangelical Christians that they shouldn't hesitate to vote for Mitt Romney because of his Mormon religion, further cementing Romney's strong standing with the key Republican voting bloc.
> 
> The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association this week removed Mormonism from its list of religious cults, the Charlotte Observer reports. Mormons consider themselves Christians, though not all of their beliefs align with mainstream Christian doctrine."
> 
> ...



Not at all.

You miss the point.  I think ALL religion is bullshit.  

The only thing Grahmnn has proved is that these guys are all phonies, which has always been my opinion of them.  

How can it be that they thought Mormonism was a cult for something like 60 years, and then suddenly, it's not a cult when they are running against the black guy?  

If you are an evangelical who is voting for Romney, you're a hypocrite.  You really don't believe in your Sky Pixie as much as you claim.


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## Seawytch (Oct 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?



I couldn't believe that when I read that the other day. The blatant hypocrisy of removing Mormonism from their cult list. These people have no shame.


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## spectrumc01 (Oct 20, 2012)

Organized religion, led by the infirmed elderly, is quite funny.


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## uscitizen (Oct 20, 2012)

Has he shut himself in a tower and said god will take him if his demands are not met?

Now which other renowned evangellist did that?  Over money no less.


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## tyroneweaver (Oct 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> 
> People like Graham are why I changed my registration from Independent to Democrat many years ago. I really don't like the idea of an American Taliban.



Wow I haven't read so many contradictions in two paragraphs since I read the Nicean Creed.


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## Seawytch (Oct 20, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Has he shut himself in a tower and said god will take him if his demands are not met?
> 
> Now which other renowned evangellist did that?  Over money no less.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76ohvqwsNkk"]Would Jesus Wear a Rolex?[/ame]


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## there4eyeM (Oct 20, 2012)

Hurrah for freedom of expression. This is a person I admire as a man and a human. I disagree entirely, but that is another story.

Protestants do not have a central leader or even leadership, much to their credit. The advice of this preacher will influence some, but that could be offset by those who dislike him and his movement and would vote against anything he and they were for.

If the pope told Roman Catholics for whom to vote, would any of that faith care to opine here what they would do?


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## tjvh (Oct 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> 
> People like Graham are why I changed my registration from Independent to Democrat many years ago. I really don't like the idea of an American Taliban.



Why is it that you Libs can never just address the issues... You have to go into *personal attack mode*? In this case the recipient of your angry liberal personal assault is a 94 year old man... I hope it makes you feel good.


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## there4eyeM (Oct 20, 2012)

tjvh said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> ...



It must be admitted that, for this board, the post was not viciously personal. 
Graham invites retort by participation in that most public arena. The poster calls reasonably into question the Reverend's position.

Is criticism leftist?


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## spectrumc01 (Oct 20, 2012)

tjvh said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> ...



That 94 year old man spent his life pointing out who is and who is not going to heaven.  That 94 year old man was recorded by the nixon WH being a racial bigot.  Now he is outwardly professing his hypocracy by reversing his position on Mormonism.  He is only reaping what he has sown.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> 
> People like Graham are why I changed my registration from Independent to Democrat many years ago. I really don't like the idea of an American Taliban.



Rocks....did you actually say 'Senile old man,'??????



But....I must admit, his words resonate with me.



"People like Graham are why I changed my registration from Independent to Democrat..."

Not seeking consistency....but didn't the fact that a rapist was the highest office holder of the Democrat....how come that didn't convince you to jump in the other direction?


...Opps....kind of brings the argument back to 'Senile old man,' huh?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > "Influential pastor Billy Graham is signaling to evangelical Christians that they shouldn't hesitate to vote for Mitt Romney because of his Mormon religion, further cementing Romney's strong standing with the key Republican voting bloc.
> ...





Well....I have to admit, I was upset with Graham when he wouldn't condemn the rapist....


But I can't find any mistakes in is newspaper ad.....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> JoeB131 said:
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> > PoliticalChic said:
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Yawn.. sorry, was there ever any real proof that Clinton raped anyone. 

And before you go on about Juanita Brodderick, she signed a sworn affadavitt that she wasn't raped by Clinton. 

So was she lying then, or is she lying now?  

But to the point, the Evagelicals have just proven their "dogma" is written on an Etch-a-Sketch.  

If they claimed for 150 years that Mormonism is a cult, and now it isn't a cult because a Mormon  might get them something they want, what does that say about their faith?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> ...





Seems to me he was suggesting that folks vote for the lesser of two evils.


So....you will vote for an individual who endorsed leaving a baby. born as a result of a botched abortion, to linger until it dies?
Can't be any moral justification there. 

Wouldn't you say that pretty much defines 'blatant hypocrisy'?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Seawytch said:
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> 
> > Old Rocks said:
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No, I would say that anyone who thinks that  is a true story is too retarded to be let outside the house without adult supervision...  

You guys keep repeating that lie when it has been totally debunked.  

Of course, Romney was totally for abortion before he was against it.  Now that there's backlash, he's backpeddling away from his abortion position faster than a runaway sister-wife.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



1. "Broaddrick recanted her earlier sworn statement when interviewed by the FBI about the Jones case; the FBI found her account inconclusive, and the affidavit denying the allegations remains her only sworn testimony. Broaddrick later said of the affidavit, "I didnt want to be forced to testify about one of the most horrific events in my life. I didn't want to go through it again."[2] David Schippers, the Chief Investigative Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee which was holding an inquiry on whether Clinton had committed impeachable offenses, stated that he believed Broaddrick filed the affidavit because of *intimidation from Clinton, saying, "She was so terrified. And the reason she was terrified was because she saw* what had happened to Kathleen Willey, Gennifer Flowers and all the rest of them."[5] Although Broaddrick claimed that no one had pressured her to file a false affidavit, she complained that she was being watched from parked cars, her home had been broken into, her pets released and her answering machine tape stolen while she and her husband were away briefly, during the House impeachment probe.[5]"
Juanita Broaddrick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2. Of course, that wasn't the only such episode....

Clinton Misogyny - Sex
Juanita Broaddrick (AR)- rape 
Eileen Wellstone (Oxford) - rape
Elizabeth Ward Gracen - rape - quid pro quo, post incident intimidation 
Regina Hopper Blakely - "forced himself on her, biting, bruising her"
Kathleen Willey (WH) - sexual assault, intimidations, threats
Sandra Allen James (DC) - sexual assault 
22 Year Old 1972 (Yale) - sexual assault 
Kathy Bradshaw (AK) - sexual assault
Cristy Zercher - unwelcomed sexual advance, intimidations 
Paula Jones (AR) - unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault
Carolyn Moffet -unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault
1974 student at University of Arkansas - unwelcomed physical contact
1978-1980 - seven complaints per Arkansas state troopers
Monica Lewinsky - quid pro quo, post incident character assault 
Gennifer Flowers - quid pro quo, post incident character assault 
Dolly Kyle Browning - post incident character assault 
Sally Perdue - post incident threats
Betty Dalton - rebuffed his advances, married to one of his supporters
Denise Reeder - apologetic note scanned

Clinton Misogyny - Other
Linda Tripp - coerce, intimidate, deny - Bob Bennett calls her a liar, release her job application, transfer her. 
Julia Hiatt-Steele - Willey's friend and neighbor - used the machine to change her story. 
Hillary Rodham Clinton - used as a cover humiliated
Chelsea Clinton - ignored
Betty Currie - used as cover and enabler
Donna Shalala - used as cover, used as whipping post in Cabinet meeting
Madeline Albright - used as cover
Secret Service - female agent complaints
Kathy Ferguson  unwelcome advances
CLINTON'S ROGUES GALLERY:


3. "If they claimed for 150 years that Mormonism is a cult, and now it isn't a cult because a Mormon  might get them something they want, what does that say about their faith?"


The only answer I have to that one is the only answer you could give for voting for the rapist.....

..it comes down to a vote for what one sees as the lesser of two evils.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> > Seawytch said:
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1. Seems to be a pattern.....

....whenever you Leftists are confronted with dispositve information, such that it destroys your position....

....the knee-jerk response.....and I use 'jerk' with careful consideration.....is to attempt to marginalize the voice rather than deal with the fact.



2. In  your case, ErroneousJoe, having zero sense of honor....my revealing that you are wrong will have no effect on how often you will repeat the lie.


a. . nfanticide/in&#712;fanti&#716;s&#299;d/
Noun: 
The practice in some societies of killing unwanted children soon after birth.


b. . "Gingrich was presumably referencing Obamas opposition to Illinois proposed version of a born alive law, intended to require doctors to administer immediate medical care to any infant that survived an intended abortion....FactCheck.org found holes in Obamas explanations as to why he did not support the born alive legislation..."
FACT CHECK: Gingrich Claim on Obama Infanticide Vote A Stretch - NationalJournal.com

c. . "Obama voted in committee against the 2003 state bill that was nearly identical to the federal act he says he would have supported. Both contained identical clauses saying that nothing in the bills could be construed to affect legal rights of an unborn fetus, according to an undisputed summary written immediately after the committees 2003 mark-up session."
FactCheck.org : Obama and Infanticide



3. "You guys keep repeating that lie when it has been totally debunked."

You are the only thing that has been debunked.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 20, 2012)

Brigham Young had 55 wives.

King Solomon had 700 wives.

So the fundie Billy Gantry...errrrr...Graham  says we should elect a Mormon to preserve the oh so important inviolable sanctity of the definition of marriage as one woman one man?

Religion should not be as comical as idiots like this go out of their way to make it.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 20, 2012)

"...to diligently and consistently remain politically neutral and nonpartisan throughout his public ministry..."

Yeah, there's nothing partisan in that ad...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Broaddrick recanted her earlier sworn statement when interviewed by the FBI about the Jones case; the FBI found her account inconclusive, and the affidavit denying the allegations remains her only sworn testimony.



Exactly the point, Bizarro Chick... she told two different stories. One of them was a lie. She presented no evidence for the more extreme one.  Not one bit of physical evidence. 

So after blowing 70 million dollars on a panty-sniffing raid, Ken Starr brought out this unreliable witness even his own investigators didn't really believe to smear the president.  

Case closed. 




PoliticalChic said:


> 3. "If they claimed for 150 years that Mormonism is a cult, and now it isn't a cult because a Mormon  might get them something they want, what does that say about their faith?"
> 
> The only answer I have to that one is the only answer you could give for voting for the rapist.....
> 
> ..it comes down to a vote for what one sees as the lesser of two evils.



Not really.  

Now, mind you, I stopped believing in magic friends in the sky in my 20's... but if you REALLY believe there is a magic man up in the sky, deciding whether or not to torment people for all eternity if they believe in the wrong religion or go to the wrong church, it would strike me that tacitily legitimizing Mormonism and therefore letting people get lured into eternal damnation would be the greater evil... 

if you beleived in that shit.  

I personally refuse to believe the universe is that badly designed.  

Of course, if you are in the business of just luring people into silly beliefs to fatten your own pocketbook, and you think that the guy who belongs to what you previously called a cult will be better for your bottom line, then you can easily throw principle out the window, I guess.  

Again, realized religion was a lot of bullshit at an early age, and this is why.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. Seems to be a pattern.....
> 
> ....whenever you Leftists are confronted with dispositve information, such that it destroys your position....
> 
> .....



The only pattern I see here is your lack of reasoning skills.   

From the VERY ARTICLE you posted.. 



> According to Politifact, an independent fact-checking organization that looked into similar claims made by former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum on the campaign trail, Obama voiced his opposition to the new legislation as a state senator because it would have given legal status to fetuses and would thus have been struck down by the courts, *and because Illinois already had laws to ensure infants who survived abortions would be given medical attention*.
> 
> However, by opposing the bill, Obama was not voting to legalize infanticide (as Gingrich said) or to prevent doctors from giving infants medical attention.



In short, you guys have been repeating this shit since Crazy Alan Keyes brought it up in 2004, and you keep pretending it's true.


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## longknife (Oct 20, 2012)

I think what the reverend's endorsement will do is energize those who already wanted "anybody but Obama" to urge their friends and neighbors to vote for Gov Romney.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 20, 2012)

longknife said:


> I think what the reverend's endorsement will do is energize those who already wanted "anybody but Obama" to urge their friends and neighbors to vote for Gov Romney.



Hey now wait a minute.  Its' not an endorsement of Romney.  That would mess up Graham's tax exempt loopholes.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 20, 2012)

Billy Graham is just following Ralph Reed who also endorsed Romney and is working to mobilize the evangelical Christians to get out the vote.

obama won the election with McCain by 10 million votes.  There is an estimate of twice that many evangelicals who didn't vote at all in that election.   In 2008, the Christian Coalition did not send out a Christian voter guide.   This year they did.   That, along with the support of groups that voted obama last time, but have changed, means a comfortable win for Romney.


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 20, 2012)

It's because in America, like all other things, Religion is a product to be sold for maximum profit.  And they have to pretend to remain consistant.  They were preachin' and wavin' and carrying on about Obama 4 years ago... how he's the devil.

They can't change that now.  So instead, they have to do away with a consistant position of considering Mormonism a perversion of Christianity to keep the sheep bleating the right tune.

Vote Republican, or go to hell, and by the way the cheque is due for this month.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 20, 2012)

An ad in the Wall St Journal?  I wasn't aware that the Journal was popular with the snake handling crowd from the Land of the Inbred.


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## OODA_Loop (Oct 20, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> An ad in the Wall St Journal?  I wasn't aware that the Journal was popular with the snake handling crowd from the Land of the Inbred.



It is why, as usual, you are wrong.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Billy Graham is just following Ralph Reed who also endorsed Romney and is working to mobilize the evangelical Christians to get out the vote.
> 
> obama won the election with McCain by 10 million votes.  There is an estimate of twice that many evangelicals who didn't vote at all in that election.   In 2008, the Christian Coalition did not send out a Christian voter guide.   This year they did.   That, along with the support of groups that voted obama last time, but have changed, means a comfortable win for Romney.



Again, you are being delusional.  

2008 was a record election year, with 7 million more people than voted in 2004. 2004 had 22 million more voters than 2000.  so in an 8 year period, the percentage of voters increased by 22%.  

If anything, Obama can take comfort.  The Democrat candidate has increased his vote total in every election since 1980.  If Obama even gets the average voter increase for the Democrat, he'll get 7 million more votes than he did in 2008.   

The Republican candidate, by comparison, has ups and downs. They've decreased their voter total in 2008 by about 3 million.  

But here's the thing you skip.  For years, Evangelicals like Grahmm claimed Mormons were heretics leading people to damnation.  Is he now saying they aren't?


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## OODA_Loop (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> If Obama even gets the average voter increase for the Democrat, he'll get 7 million more votes than he did in 2008.


_
IF_ grandma had a dick, she'd be grandpa.


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## kiwiman127 (Oct 20, 2012)

Now after reading PC's endless copy & paste posts, I thought I'd interject some thought.  I like to post things that require thought, not other people's thoughts/opinions.
I can understand where Graham is coming from.  He's sticking to the Word of God because it's what Christianity is built and based on. No problem there.
The thing that I always find rather puzzling is that the Bible mentions so many other things that Christians are to follow.  Yet Graham and many Christians ignore those teaching when they get involved with political "wedge issues".  Are they judging God's Word as mortals to what is the most important?  
Anyway, The Bible is chock full of verses in reference to helping the poor and weak.  The Bible is full of verses that tells us that we are to take care of God's Earth.  Now these two issues, plus the two main issues that drive Graham and the Christian Right are not embraced by one party, two are embraced by the right and two are embraced by the left.
Now to me, all four issues, gay marriage, abortion, taking care of the poor/weak and taking care of God's Earth are all important for me.  By following just some of God's instructions and not others seems wrong to me.  
I don't think Graham is doing anything wrong, but I don't think he is doing everything right per _all_ of God's Will.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > If Obama even gets the average voter increase for the Democrat, he'll get 7 million more votes than he did in 2008.
> ...



Ooookay... 

Obviously reasoning is one of those things you don't get.  

Fact is, the Democratic Demographics are growing.  (Women, minorities, young people).  The Republican Democragphics are shrinking. (Old White Males)


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## OODA_Loop (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Fact is, the Democratic Demographics are growing.  (Women, minorities, young people).  The Republican Democragphics are shrinking. (Old White Males)



Exactly.  That is how Romney is over 51% per Gallop.

His shrinking base.


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 20, 2012)

kiwiman127 said:


> Now after reading PC's endless copy & paste posts, I thought I'd interject some thought.  I like to post things that require thought, not other people's thoughts/opinions.
> I can understand where Graham is coming from.  He's sticking to the Word of God because it's what Christianity is built and based on. No problem there.
> The thing that I always find rather puzzling is that the Bible mentions so many other things that Christians are to follow.  Yet Graham and many Christians ignore those teaching when they get involved with political "wedge issues".  Are they judging God's Word as mortals to what is the most important?
> Anyway, The Bible is chock full of verses in reference to helping the poor and weak.  The Bible is full of verses that tells us that we are to take care of God's Earth.  Now these two issues, plus the two main issues that drive Graham and the Christian Right are not embraced by one party, two are embraced by the right and two are embraced by the left.
> ...




"God's Will" is whatever is policically expedient at the time.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 20, 2012)

obama doesn't have the support he had last time.   He's lost women, although he still has women on welfare locked up.   He's lost Jews, he's lost entire demographics and even lost some blacks over his same sex marriage position.  

obama is not going to get the same people who voted for him last time voting for him this time and he's certainly not going to add to that.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is, the Democratic Demographics are growing.  (Women, minorities, young people).  The Republican Democragphics are shrinking. (Old White Males)
> ...



Gallup (not Gallop) is counting the electorate as being 79% white.  

In 2008, the electorate was only 74% white, and it's likely to be only 72% white this time.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 20, 2012)

Assuming that no non whites will vote for Romney, like it assumes no women will vote for Romney.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> obama doesn't have the support he had last time.   He's lost women, although he still has women on welfare locked up.   He's lost Jews, he's lost entire demographics and even lost some blacks over his same sex marriage position.
> 
> obama is not going to get the same people who voted for him last time voting for him this time and he's certainly not going to add to that.



There's a lot of wishful thinking there.  

'Poll: Obama pulls ahea... JPost - 2012: The US Presidential race



> According to an unreleased Gallup poll given to Buzzfeed, Jewish voters support Obama over rival Mitt Romney at a ratio of 70 to 25, about the same proportion that supported Obama to Senator John McCain (69 to 25) at the same point in the 2008 election.



Whoops.  


Hey, what about Hispanics? 

Poll: Obama has 35-point lead with Latino voters - POLITICO.com



> Hispanics, the largest-growing segment of the U.S. population over the past decade, said they preferred Obama over Romney in the presidential race, 63 to 28 percent.



I could find similar polls about women or blacks, but you get the idea.

There isn't the mass defection you are hoping for...


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## Katzndogz (Oct 20, 2012)

I get the idea that obama is losing because he is.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I get the idea that obama is losing because he is.



I know that's what you HOPE... but it probably isn't true.  

You have one poll with an inaccurate measure and an outlying result... that's what you are hanging your hopes on.


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## OODA_Loop (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> I know that's what you HOPE... but it probably isn't true.
> 
> You have one poll with an inaccurate measure and an outlying result... that's what you are hanging your hopes on.



Marked shift.

Love it.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> obama doesn't have the support he had last time.   He's lost women, although he still has women on welfare locked up.   He's lost Jews, he's lost entire demographics and even lost some blacks over his same sex marriage position.
> 
> obama is not going to get the same people who voted for him last time voting for him this time and he's certainly not going to add to that.



Yep, he may very well give back Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida...

...and still win.


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## G.T. (Oct 20, 2012)

Sounds like Billy Graham has no principles.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > I know that's what you HOPE... but it probably isn't true.
> ...



Yup....I saw the same.....

...gave me a chuckle.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association this week removed Mormonism from its list of religious cults, the Charlotte Observer reports. Mormons consider themselves Christians, though not all of their beliefs align with mainstream Christian doctrine."
> Billy Graham's organization removes Mormonism from its list of cults - CBS News




This is just proof that he's another con artist.

If he believed that they were a cult yesterday, what changed his mind today?

Politics.  This is a man who has abandoned his faith and his convictions.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association this week removed Mormonism from its list of religious cults, the Charlotte Observer reports. Mormons consider themselves Christians, though not all of their beliefs align with mainstream Christian doctrine."
> ...





"This is just proof that he's another con artist."



When Obama was asked about his relationship with terrorist Bill Ayers....

"Obama: George, but this is an example of what I'm talking about.

This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago, who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis."
FactCheck.org: "He Lied" About Bill Ayers?

"This is just proof that he's another con artist."
Now.....I know you mean what you say....


....so, who ya' votin' for?


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## Plasmaball (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Seawytch said:
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> > Old Rocks said:
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Ah so you are touting that lie around. But why bother with facts now? You've never used them before. 

As for this useless sack of shit Pastor. Seize all his assets for back taxes, since now he thinks he can preach from the pulpit.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> > Seawytch said:
> ...



1. No matter how often I reveal the motivation of Liberals to shut down opposing voices....there is nothing quite so dramatic as the testimony of a fool who falls right into it!

"...since now he thinks he can preach from the pulpit."

What the heck are you totalitarians so afraid of?

Oh...right....folks catching on!

Too late......but thanks for doing your part!


2. "Ah so you are touting that lie around."

Which aspect? I'd be happy to prove any of 'em.
That Obama and Ayers worked together for years?

Or that Ayers wrote Obama's book?

Or that Axelrod's explanation...their kids went to school together...was a lie?

Or that you are a dim-wit?
Oh....you already proved that.


----------



## Plasmaball (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > 1. No matter how often I reveal the motivation of Liberals to shut down opposing voices....there is nothing quite so dramatic as the testimony of a fool who falls right into it!
> ...


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...


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## Mustang (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Odd.  Just a few short days ago, Graham had Mormonism listed as a cult on his website.  That means he considered them unbiblical.  This was a lifelong belief.  And now he's endorsing a Mormon for president?  I wonder if mammon is playing a role here considering that Graham and Romney just had a meeting.  Has Graham been corrupted by the Dark Lord?

Let this be a warning to all Christians that Lucifer is the Great Deceiver and will stop at NOTHING to corrupt the faithful.  Stand FAST, oh Ye people of faith!!!  Be NOT deceived!!!


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 20, 2012)

here's what the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association's website had been saying about cults for the past several years:


"A cult is any group which teaches doctrines or beliefs that deviate from the biblical message of the Christian faith. *It is very important that we recognize cults and avoid any involvement with them*. Cults often teach some Christian truth mixed with error, which may be difficult to detect... Some of these groups are Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses, Mormons, the Unification Church, Unitarians, Spiritists, Scientologists, and others."


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## Plasmaball (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Plasmaball said:
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> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 20, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Not really. 

I've seen ONE eleciton stolen in my lifetime.  (2000).  

But Romney's a creep, no one like him, and you have more polls showing Obama winning than losing right now.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Cheddarmelon said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Cheddarmelon said:
> 
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> > Plasmaball said:
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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> [
> 
> So, you're biased against freedom of religion, and opposed to free speech unless a fee is paid ......
> 
> How about poll taxes....might as well be for that as well, Cheesy.



There's nothing in the first amendment giving them a tax break. 

I think we should tax churches like any other business.  

And maybe apply the consumer fraud laws to them.  

I'd love to see them the first time someone sues them to PROVE there's a Heaven.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...




"I've seen ONE eleciton stolen in my lifetime."
Where....the Elk's Club???

1. Just because you suffer from A.D.D., don't assume that everyone else is!
Folks will remember, I'm certain, the reason for your hard-won purchase of the title "Erroneous" Joe.

Therefore, it's isn't necessary to continue to re-win it daily.


2. &#8220;Gore won&#8221; is the equivalent of a political Stanford-Binet IQ Test. And this is a one-question test, so the stakes are high.  The bad news, you failed.  The good news? Your level of knowledge has attained its nadir, so you have no place to go, but up.
*No election was stolen in 2000.*

Let's prove it, shall we?


3. In a study of the Florida's ballots, the Miami Herald and USA Today reported George W. Bush would have widened his 537-vote victory to a 1,665-vote margin if the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court would have been allowed to continue, using standards that would have allowed even faintly dimpled "undervotes" -- ballots the voter has noticeably indented but had not punched all the way through -- to be counted.

Electoral Vote...

*George W Bush 271 *


*Albert Gore, Jr. 266 *


Bush won the popular vote in 60% of the 50 states, 

Gore, winning the popular vote in 40% of the states

George W. Bush won 2,434 (78%) of the nation's 3,111 counties; 
Al Gore won 677 (22%) of the counties

George Bush won 51 (77%) of Florida's 67 counties 

Gore won 16 (23%) of the counties (primarily the population centers) 

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/election2000.htm


*"I've seen ONE eleciton stolen in my lifetime."*
The Miss America Contest you tried to enter???


It is my guilty pleasure smashing you in the kisser with a shaving cream pie....so here's some more:


4. In the first full study of Florida's ballots since the election ended, The Miami Herald and USA Today reported George W. *Bush would have widened his 537-vote victory to a 1,665-vote margin if the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court would have been allowed *to continue, using standards that would have allowed even faintly dimpled "undervotes" -- ballots the voter has noticeably indented but had not punched all the way through -- to be counted.
Online NewsHour: Media Recount: Bush Won



5. Smile.....here comes another:


New York Times headline clearly stated, *"Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote,*
Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote - NYTimes.com

I know I shouldn't be having this much fun.....but you deserve it, Erroneous!


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Mustang said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> ...





"And now he's endorsing a Mormon for president?"

"Has Graham been corrupted by the Dark Lord??"
Don't you get it?

He's suggesting that folks vote AGAINST the Dark Lord.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
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Nope, snookums, the election was stolen.  

Come on, if you guys were sure your boy won in Florida, why stop the recounts?  

(Full disclosure, I voted for Bush in 2000, but even I knew there was theivery going on.) 

Stolen election.  And that's the problem.  The GOP has only won one election for president in the last 20 years.  

It's on its way to being a minority party.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 20, 2012)

OODA_Loop said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > An ad in the Wall St Journal?  I wasn't aware that the Journal was popular with the snake handling crowd from the Land of the Inbred.
> ...



So, the Journal IS popular with the snake handlers from the land of the inbred?

Fascinating.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 20, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Billy Graham is just following Ralph Reed who also endorsed Romney and is working to mobilize the evangelical Christians to get out the vote.
> 
> obama won the election with McCain by 10 million votes.  There is an estimate of twice that many evangelicals who didn't vote at all in that election.   In 2008, the Christian Coalition did not send out a Christian voter guide.   This year they did.   That, along with the support of groups that voted obama last time, but have changed, means a comfortable win for Romney.



Ralph Reed is about as Christian as I am.


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## Plasmaball (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
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> > PoliticalChic said:
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## PoliticalChic (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
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Gee, Erroneous....how come you cut off the rest of the post????


Could the reason be that it contained evidence from:

*PBS, NYTimes, Miami Herald, USAToday*....


....proving that you are a delusional dunce???


Every one of 'em saying Bush won!  

Could be?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> [
> 
> Gee, Erroneous....how come you cut off the rest of the post????
> 
> ?



Because they are like all your OCD Posts.. No reasoning, just tired recitations of half truths and bad citations and your inability to think through a problem. 

Here's the bottom line of 2000. 

Al Gore got more votes nationally, and there never was an official tally of Florida.  

Bush didn't win at the ballot box, he won in the courts.  

If he had a shred of decency, he would have said, "Forget the recounts, I'm conceded to Gore because the people have spoken."  

But the GOP doesn't give a fuck about the people, just their corporate paymasters.  And we all paid a steep price for what they bought.


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## uscitizen (Oct 20, 2012)

tjvh said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> ...



Yeah he should know better by 94!


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## Old Rocks (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Hey PC. Simple fact, Gore won more American votes than did Bush. But the way our electorial system is set up, Bush won the election. With the Supreme Courts help.

Now, were Romney to win the popular vote, but Obama the electorial vote, and all the marbles, of course, it would be kind of a sweet revisit of history. And you and the other "Conservatives" would be howling about second amendment solutions. 

If Romney wins, I won't like it, but that is what elections are all about.


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## MarcATL (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > "Influential pastor Billy Graham is signaling to evangelical Christians that they shouldn't hesitate to vote for Mitt Romney because of his Mormon religion, further cementing Romney's strong standing with the key Republican voting bloc.
> ...


This is what is so sad and quite maddening with radical RW fundamental so-called Christians.

They conflate religion and politics.

We're not voting for the Pastor-in-Chief, we're voting for the Commander-In-Chief...two totally different things.

What these people are, are radical RW fundamentalists.

And yes, they show their hypocracy as clear as day w/stunts like what Graham is doing.

He spent 2/3 of his life preaching one thing about Mormons, but is ready to sweep it under the rug for this.

That is not conviction.

No sir, it most certainly is not.

These are the types of psuedo-Christians that give Christianity a bad name.


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## MarcATL (Oct 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Because they are like all your OCD Posts.. No reasoning, just tired recitations of half truths and bad citations and your inability to think through a problem.
> 
> Here's the bottom line of 2000.
> 
> ...


Yep, the only...the ONLY illigitamate President we've had IS G.W. Bush. Period. Full stop.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 20, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
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Why is Billy Graham's integrity and honesty dependent upon any other person's supposed actions?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> 
> > Synthaholic said:
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The post reveals the fact that you are not actually opposed to one being a 'con artist' as long as the 'con artist' is on your side of the political divide.


It's like all the frauds being irate about an imagined 'war on women,' but being so very proud of an actual rapist introducing their candidate for President at the Democrat Convention.


Really deflated your post, didn't it......don't you agree?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> The post reveals the fact that you are not actually opposed to one being a 'con artist' as long as the 'con artist' is on your side of the political divide.
> 
> 
> *It's like all the frauds being irate about an imagined 'war on women,' but being so very proud of an actual rapist introducing their candidate for President at the Democrat Convention.*
> ...



Wow, you keep repeating this lie... 

Is Juanita Broaddrick Telling the Truth? - Slate Magazine

In 1997, Broaddrick filed an affadavit with Paula Jones' lawyers saying Clinton did not assault her. In 1998, Broaddrick told Kenneth Starr's FBI investigators that she was raped. Eventually, Broaddrick described the rape for several major news organizations.

She couldn't remember the date of the rape. 

She attended a clinton fundraiser a few weeks after the rape.  

This is simply not a credible witness.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



No, you're attempting to deflect because you have no intelligent or honest answer.

When one changes their core religious beliefs for political expediency it exposes their beliefs as a sham in the first place.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



"When one changes their core religious beliefs for political expediency..."

So....you were never really against rape....or rapists?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Let's see.....PBS, NYTimes, Miami Herald, USAToday....all say Bush won....


....but Erroneous Joe says 'did not, did not!'


Help me with this: are you insane or merely a liar?


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## G.T. (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > What? I went out with my family you twat. Its not all about you cumbucket.
> ...


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## G.T. (Oct 21, 2012)

I like how pointing to other people somehow makes Billy Graham's fraudulant "cult list" any less hypocritical and sad.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Have you ever heard of the 'electoral college'?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > The post reveals the fact that you are not actually opposed to one being a 'con artist' as long as the 'con artist' is on your side of the political divide.
> ...







Could you toss in all the rest of the Slate articles for these:

Clinton Misogyny - Sex
Juanita Broaddrick (AR)- rape 
Eileen Wellstone (Oxford) - rape
Elizabeth Ward Gracen - rape - quid pro quo, post incident intimidation 
Regina Hopper Blakely - "forced himself on her, biting, bruising her"
Kathleen Willey (WH) - sexual assault, intimidations, threats
Sandra Allen James (DC) - sexual assault 
22 Year Old 1972 (Yale) - sexual assault 
Kathy Bradshaw (AK) - sexual assault
Cristy Zercher - unwelcomed sexual advance, intimidations 
Paula Jones (AR) - unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault
Carolyn Moffet -unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault
1974 student at University of Arkansas - unwelcomed physical contact
1978-1980 - seven complaints per Arkansas state troopers
Monica Lewinsky - quid pro quo, post incident character assault 
Gennifer Flowers - quid pro quo, post incident character assault 
Dolly Kyle Browning - post incident character assault 
Sally Perdue - post incident threats
Betty Dalton - rebuffed his advances, married to one of his supporters
Denise Reeder - apologetic note scanned
CLINTON'S ROGUES GALLERY:

Clinton Misogyny - Other
Linda Tripp - coerce, intimidate, deny - Bob Bennett calls her a liar, release her job application, transfer her. 
Julia Hiatt-Steele - Willey's friend and neighbor - used the machine to change her story. 
Hillary Rodham Clinton - used as a cover humiliated
Chelsea Clinton - ignored
Betty Currie - used as cover and enabler
Donna Shalala - used as cover, used as whipping post in Cabinet meeting
Madeline Albright - used as cover
Secret Service - female agent complaints
Kathy Ferguson  unwelcome advances
Ibid.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> [
> 
> Have you ever heard of the 'electoral college'?



Sure I have. 

Doesn't take away from the facts. 

Gore got more votes. 
No accurate count of Florida was ever done.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Why?  

Not one of them filed a police report. 
Not one of them produced any evidence.

All we have are a lot of accusations, most of them with monetary motive.  

Last time I checked, this was America, and we had innocence until proven guilt.


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## Dick Tuck (Oct 21, 2012)

Amazing how shallow a religious leaders theology is when he wants.  Flippity Floppity.

Billy Graham No Longer Thinks Mormonism Is a Cult | NewsFeed | TIME.com


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
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Any truth to the rumor that the rape victims of Uday, Qusay and Saddam Hussein didn't file police reports, or produce any evidence, either?

I hear that they were afraid to.....


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You really think Arkansas was like Iraq?  

Seriously?  

I mean seriously, I read these posts, and I don't know whether to laugh or cry sometimes.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Dry your tears, and answer as close to 'truth' as you can come....do you suppose that women who have been raped might fear the political power, media power, and physical power of the governor...or the President of the United States?


No?

"drag a $20 through a trailer park and this is what you get....."


"Only the London Sunday Telegraph reported Ms. Perdues story and the physical threats made against her by Clinton associates. One of them was that they would break her pretty little legs.
Bill Clinton, Champion of Women in the Faux War on Women | Independent Sentinel



Of course, I read 'Blood Sport,' by Stewart....and you didn't.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 21, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> Amazing how shallow a religious leaders theology is when he wants.  Flippity Floppity.
> 
> Billy Graham No Longer Thinks Mormonism Is a Cult | NewsFeed | TIME.com



Once Billy Graham got to see up close and personal with obama what a real cult is like, he realized he was wrong and admitted it.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Has my argument sent you into a confused state, where you are unable to stay on the subject?  

Focus!  What does it say about Billy Graham's beliefs if he would change them for political expediency?


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Dry your tears, and answer as close to 'truth' as you can come....do you suppose that women who have been raped might fear the political power, media power, and physical power of the governor...or the President of the United States?



Ummm, no, not really.  I think it's far more likely women will make stuff up when it's someone famous to get their 15 minutes of fame.  Like that woman who said she was the mother of Justin Beiber's child.  Until DNA proved otherwise. 




PoliticalChic said:


> No?
> 
> "drag a $20 through a trailer park and this is what you get....."
> 
> ...



Naw, back when I was right wing, I read all the bullshit stuff the right dragged out about Clinton. 

And most of it was bullshit. 

What I remember about Clinton today is that I had a pretty good life when he was president. 

It should also be pointed out that Paula Jones herself (the person the "drag a $100 through a trailer park was directed at) indeed has admitted she was used. 

It should also be pointed out that the guy who spread a lot of these rumors was David Brock, who now runs Media Matters after he discovered that he was just being used.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


You will be calling the EC illegitimate in two weeks.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> Amazing how shallow a religious leaders theology is when he wants.  Flippity Floppity.
> 
> Billy Graham No Longer Thinks Mormonism Is a Cult | NewsFeed | TIME.com


It exposes him as the flim-flam artist I always knew he was.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



You see.....right there is the danger one runs into when he judges others by himself.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> It should also be pointed out that the guy who spread a lot of these rumors was David Brock, who now runs Media Matters after he discovered that he was just being used.



Wingnuts were for David Brock before they were against him.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 21, 2012)

Two things progressives hate the most are free speech and Christians.....Put them together like this and they turn rabid as you see in this thread.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


You skipped a post.  

It just eats you alive every time i expose you as a faux intellectual.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 21, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Two things progressives hate the most are free speech and Christians.....Put them together like this and they turn rabid as you see in this thread.



Now that's a wise observation!


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Dry your tears, and answer as close to 'truth' as you can come....do you suppose that women who have been raped might fear the political power, media power, and physical power of the governor...or the President of the United States?
> ...






"What I remember about Clinton today is that I had a pretty good life when he was president."

While having nothing to do with the question at hand, it is an inadvertent explanation of your lack of honesty: how you felt was all that's important.



And....as feeling rather than knowing is your watchword, it lends credence to the thought ha you were never other than Liberal.


Very human....just not terribly respectable.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...






"Intellectual"?

I don't recall ever applying said term to myself....but I do get a kick out of it whenever you Lefties attach it to moi. 
An inadvertent compliment.


Those of us on the Right often use 'intellectual,' or 'elite' in the pejorative, as follows:

"Unlike advocates of the more conservative, constrained vision, this *intellectual vanguard tends to take the benefits of civilization for granted. *The vision of the anointed lacks respect for the wisdom inherent in experience and common opinion. Its practitioners value abstractionsdreams for a peaceful, egalitarian world where conflicts have been overcomeover the tacit knowledge available to the parent, the consumer, the entrepreneur, and the citizen.

Sowell vigorously defends wisdompractical reasonagainst *an abstract rationalism that values ideas over the experience of actual human beings. Intellectuals, he argues, are particularly suspicious of the ties ordinary men and women feel to family, religion, and country. *They look down upon objective reality and objective criteria in the social sciences, art, music, and philosophy. Their systems tend to be self-referential and lack accountability in the external world."
From a review of Intellectuals and Society, by Thomas Sowell (Basic Books, 416 pp., $29.95)


Are you napping?
"It just eats you alive every time i expose you..."
According to Freud, wish fulfillment takes place during sleep.  

You know, don't you, that you have zero effects on my mood.
An "intellectual" post might.....you have quite a ways to go.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


So your answer to me calling you a faux intellectual is to bluster about intellectualism, and quote Sigmund Freud?

Thank you for proving my point.  

Now answer the post about Billy Graham that you have desperately tried to ignore.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



1. Once again, I appreciate your inadvertent compliment.


2. And, I'm so very sorry that your....limitations....prevented you from understanding the references you note.


3. I hate to rub it in.....but this is a perfect example of why you should have stayed in school.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> [
> 
> "What I remember about Clinton today is that I had a pretty good life when he was president."
> 
> ...



Yawn... you brought up feelings, not me, snookums. 

In a measurable way, I had a better life under Clinton.  My assets were worth more, I made more money (after adjusting for inflation), I had more job security.  

And at the time, I really, really got upset about such nonsense as "subornation of perjury". 

You see, the beauty of Clinton was when you had 3.9% unemployment, like we had on his watch, you had managers who wouldn't screw with you because they knew they probably couldn't replace you.  So you got decent wages and shit.  

Five years ago, old Right Wing Joe got told by his boss that he was being screwed in a reorganization.  Then I realized, that there is management's interest, and their working folks interests.  And for all the whining about morality, and abortion, and gays... that's what the real divide is all about.  

Clinton had my back as a working guy. Bush had my boss's back.  

Some day when you grow up, you will probably get a similar education.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...





"you brought up feelings, not me, [Ms.] snookums."



So....you don't realize that your post is subjective?

You  do?

Good...

sub·jec·tive/s&#601;b&#712;jektiv/
Adjective:	
Based on or influenced by *personal feelings*, tastes, or opinions


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## Synthaholic (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



It's not a compliment, inadvertent or otherwise.

Are you going to continue to avoid the Billy Graham issue, in a thread about Billy Graham?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...



Not sure what you would like....

This from the OP:

"I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel.

4. I urge you to vote for those who protect the sanctity of life and support the biblical definition of marriage between a man and a woman.

5. Vote for biblical values this November 6, and pray with me that America will remain one nation under God."


Excellent advice.


I oppose any candidate who endorses infanticide, doesn't support Israel, and eschews biblical values.


If you care to take the opposite perspective,....go for it.


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## Moonglow (Oct 21, 2012)

Billy Graham,the shuckster that stated deveral times that if his congregation did not raise X amount of dollars, God would take him away.


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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While overtly skipping the part where he has always called Mormonism a cult to be avoided.. and removed that from his "biblical principles" for political expedience.

I'm very familiar with the bible.  It has a few things to say about being a hypocrite.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Billy Graham,the shuckster that stated deveral times that if his congregation did not raise X amount of dollars, God would take him away.



But...if the suggestion in the ad had been written by another, you'd feel they were advisable?

Is that your point, dropsy?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Cheddarmelon said:


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No doubt you are very familiar with Ecclesiastes 10:2


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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I sincerely hope you're being cute with that, and don't actually thing that an ancient text is predicating the political choice between the right and the left.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Cheddarmelon said:


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I was applying it to you, Cheesy.

Surely you recognized that.


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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You do NOT want to get in to a war of biblical quotemining with me, sweetheart.  You really don't.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2012)

Cheddarmelon said:


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Must everything be spelled out?

I called you a fool.

It's not necessary for you to continue verifying same.


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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Then let's do the same thing.  Let's quote the bible that you hold so dear.

Matthew 5:22 But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Stop playing the bible game.  Particularly when you cherry pick what parts you think are important enough to pay attention to.


Edited to add:  Ran like a little kid who was just spanked.  Not surprised.


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## Erand7899 (Oct 21, 2012)

kiwiman127 said:


> Now after reading PC's endless copy & paste posts, I thought I'd interject some thought.  I like to post things that require thought, not other people's thoughts/opinions.
> I can understand where Graham is coming from.  He's sticking to the Word of God because it's what Christianity is built and based on. No problem there.
> The thing that I always find rather puzzling is that the Bible mentions so many other things that Christians are to follow.  Yet Graham and many Christians ignore those teaching when they get involved with political "wedge issues".  Are they judging God's Word as mortals to what is the most important?
> Anyway, The Bible is chock full of verses in reference to helping the poor and weak.  The Bible is full of verses that tells us that we are to take care of God's Earth.  Now these two issues, plus the two main issues that drive Graham and the Christian Right are not embraced by one party, two are embraced by the right and two are embraced by the left.
> ...



The Bible is full of verses that tell INDIVIDUALS, not government, to help the poor and needy.  Taking care of the earth, is just as important to Christians as it is to any of you heathens.  The difference of opinion is over the level of care, and the evil intentions of many of those who want to lock it up and just look at it from afar. 

This earth has to feed, clothe, house, and nurture almost 7 billion people, and that means we have to use the earth to do so.  We have to dig out the minerals, pump out the oil, and plow tens of millions of acres to grow crops to feed people and livestock.  That also means that our air and water will never be pristine (if it ever was), and the earth will have scars that take centuries to heal.  We have to build roads, bridges, dams, dikes and levees, to ensure that people can do more than just survive.


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## Plasmaball (Oct 21, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


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Only if romney looses. Great then we have to deal with retarded posts about the EC is a fraud.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 21, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> "you brought up feelings, not me, [Ms.] snookums."
> 
> 
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Only to you, Bizarro-Girl, but that's because of your lack of reasoning skills.  

I realized I was being scammed.  The GOP doesn't give a crap about guns, abortions, gays or any of that bullshit.  They care about how much their rich donors can make at the expense of the rest of us.  It's what happens when you let the wealthy buy your government.  Kind of like leaving a chimp in charge of the bananas.


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## Dick Tuck (Oct 21, 2012)

Erand7899 said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> > Now after reading PC's endless copy & paste posts, I thought I'd interject some thought.  I like to post things that require thought, not other people's thoughts/opinions.
> ...



Do you even read the Bible?

Matthew: 25-32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 22, 2012)

Again the democrat bigots show their true hate for Mormons....Black, Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Evangelists, the poor and Latin......Progressive democrats hate it all.


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## Cowman (Oct 22, 2012)

3. "I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel and believe in the planet Kolob.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 22, 2012)

Cowman said:


> 3. "I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel and believe in the planet Kolob.



Beats voting for a asshole who lies about why a ambassador dies cause he wants to get reelected.


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## Cowman (Oct 22, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Cowman said:
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> > 3. "I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel and believe in the planet Kolob.
> ...



You should feel proud that you use the death of an ambassador as a playing card just to spice up your world view of how these national politics are going. And it's not even the right card for the game.

He hadn't lied about shit. He's used the intelligence they had all along.

Nothing like a dead ambassador to toss into every single post to try and make a barb out of it, am I right thanatos144?


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## thanatos144 (Oct 22, 2012)

Cowman said:


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I should be proud about speaking the truth, you turd goblin.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Again the democrat bigots show their true hate for Mormons....Black, Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Evangelists, the poor and Latin......Progressive democrats hate it all.



I think you miss the point. 

Mormons believe that dark skin is a curse from God and that all other churches are from Satan. 

If anyone is intolerant, they are.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> thanatos144 said:
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> > Again the democrat bigots show their true hate for Mormons....Black, Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Evangelists, the poor and Latin......Progressive democrats hate it all.
> ...



No they dont you lying prick.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> thanatos144 said:
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> > Again the democrat bigots show their true hate for Mormons....Black, Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Evangelists, the poor and Latin......Progressive democrats hate it all.
> ...



I'm certainly proud to have cured you of your fatuous "everybody knows," but sure would like to see a link for the above post.


Perhaps you can can be cured of prevarication....

...what am I saying???


Then it would be.....



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gkqQr8QdnM]Is This the End of Rico? - YouTube[/ame]


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## Synthaholic (Oct 22, 2012)

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So, you admit that you have no defense of Billy Graham's lack of integrity?

As I predicted.

You really must avoid getting into debates with me, Political Chic - you always lose.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 22, 2012)

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You really are a disgusting little weasel..... If you want to make a point dont make shit up you lying scumbag.


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## G.T. (Oct 22, 2012)

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Her defense of his lack of integrity is to point to others with lack of integrity. 

Such a high standard for offering your support of someone.


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## The Irish Ram (Oct 22, 2012)

> If you are an evangelical who is voting for Romney, you're a hypocrite.  You really don't believe in your Sky Pixie as much as you claim.



Oh but we do.  The Sky Pixie has made his feelings *quite* clear about those who want to remove Israel from the map.   Including Obama's new radical Egyptian friends. 

  If the Mormon's were responsible for killing our Ambassador and wanting Billions of our taxpayer money, and burning our flag, I wouldn't vote for them either............ 

Mormon or Muslim.  The choice is clear.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 22, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


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What a stupidly self-congratulatory post.


The point under discussion is the advice that Graham gave in the ad.

This:

"As I approach my 94th birthday, I realize this election could be my last."

3. "I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel.

4. I urge you to vote for those who protect the sanctity of life and support the biblical definition of marriage between a man and a woman.

5. Vote for biblical values this November 6, and pray with me that America will remain one nation under God."


I find it laudatory.


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## Cheddarmelon (Oct 22, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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6. And forget all about that "mormons are cultists that you must avoid like pinkeye" shit.  Didn't really mean it.


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## Cowman (Oct 22, 2012)

Billy Graham would probably suck Satan's dick just to forge a deal to get Obama out of office.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


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Go and read their scriptures, dumbass..  

Or study their history.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2012)

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Well, honestly, I stopped using that, because there are ignorant people like you who make a point of NOT trying to understand facts that upset your worldview.  You don't know, and you don't want to know.  

And the same reason I won't waste my time on a link like this about Mormons 

Mormons and Black Skin

which give you chapter and verse from the Mormons OWN WRITINGS that they endorse racism and dark skin as a curse from God.  because you won't educate yourself on it.  

Or what they think of other churches..

The Mormon Church does Teach about the Great and Abominable Church

Because frankly, Romney could offer to make you a human sacrifice to the Great Angel Moroni and the White Salamander, and you'd still go along with him...


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## thanatos144 (Oct 22, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


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I have you ignorant hack. Go back to the daily Koz you bigoted fuck.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 23, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


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So did you need someone to help you with the big words.  

Or did you think they meant something else when they said that God cursed the Lamanites with dark skin when they killed the Nephites?   

or that Blacks were cursed with dark skin for the sin of Ham?  

Or when in the Book of 1 Nephi, they say that the Catholic Church is the Church of Satan. (Nobody better tell Ryan!)


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## Synthaholic (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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It is not stupid to recognize the self-evident.




> The point under discussion is the advice that Graham gave in the ad.



FALSE.

The point is the question I asked you, that you have desperately avoided...like pinkeye.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 23, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


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1. Did you know that Brigham Young and Joseph Smith are no longer with us?

2. "... there is no question that the LDS Church has a racist past.  Just like the United States of America. And there is no question in my mind that racism does not fade easilywhether from Mormonism, or from American culture at large. But there are many African-American Mormons and their allies who work hard to address it.  To get a sense of their lives and their experience, check out this site or this article or this movie.

Its impossible to generalize how Black people are treated by Mormons, but a little data helps to fill in the story.  Although the Church doesnt keep track of members racial identities, folks in the know have estimated that there are between 500,000 and 1,000,000 LDS Church members of African descent worldwide.
What do Mormons believe about African-Americans? | Ask Mormon Girl

3. As you may recall, I have posted that I've been to Salt Lake City and met black officials of the Mormon Church.


4. What do you think of folks who slander the current members with past memories?
What did you say your ethnic background is....and when did they give up owning slaves?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 23, 2012)

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Why don't you simply begin a thread with that question?

As I'm certain you recognize in your myriad interactions in real life.....nobody follows your instructions.

Care to guess why not?


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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How did the Mormon's God change his mind about race?  And about polygamy for that matter?

Why would GOD be making mistakes, and then finding himself standing corrected by the secular, temporal world?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 23, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


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Are you disagreeing with the adjustment to modernity?


How do you feel about the Protestant Reformation?


Our Founders were deeply religious folks.....would you like to repeal the 13th amendment?


Bravo on contributing your usual level of erudition and understanding of the human condition.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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At least you are admitting that you have failed in this thread.

Succeeding would be answering the question.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. Did you know that Brigham Young and Joseph Smith are no longer with us?



ONe of the few things I would thank a God for if there was one. 



PoliticalChic said:


> 2. "... there is no question that the LDS Church has a racist past.  Just like the United States of America. And there is no question in my mind that racism does not fade easilywhether from Mormonism, or from American culture at large. But there are many African-American Mormons and their allies who work hard to address it.  To get a sense of their lives and their experience, check out this site or this article or this movie.
> 
> Its impossible to generalize how Black people are treated by Mormons, but a little data helps to fill in the story.  Although the Church doesnt keep track of members racial identities, folks in the know have estimated that there are between 500,000 and 1,000,000 LDS Church members of African descent worldwide.



Ummm, what does that have to do with my point?  the thing was, they did not go back and edit the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price and get rid of the offending passages that said dark skin was a curse from God infliced either in "Pre-Life" (another one of those whacky LDS beliefs) or because of what their ancestors did.  Dark Skin is God's curse of choice, apparently.  




PoliticalChic said:


> 3. As you may recall, I have posted that I've been to Salt Lake City and met black officials of the Mormon Church.



NO, I don't recall that. And I'm sure there are black folks who are so self-loathing they sign up for that shit. 

When I was growing up, we had a clown named Frank Collins who was the head of the Nazi Party in Chicago. He had about six followers.. Anyway, after they did some research, they found out his real name was Frank Cohen, and yup, you guessed it, his father was Jewish.  Why people do crazy shit is something I don't waste a lot of time thinking about. 



PoliticalChic said:


> 4. What do you think of folks who slander the current members with past memories?
> What did you say your ethnic background is....and when did they give up owning slaves?



Now, there's an interesting point.  I'm of German ancestory.  My grandfather fought in the Kaiser's Army.  But here's the thing.  I don't hold allegience to the House of Hollenzollern.  I can denounce what they did because, HEY, I had nothing to do with them and I admit they were wrong. 

Mormons, however, can't go ahead and renounce their racist/homophobic/misogynist past, becuse the whole premise of their belief was Joseph Smith was God's Prophet.  So how could the Prophet get it soooooo wrong.   Well, they hem and haw and no one asks Romney with a straight face.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 23, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> [
> 
> Are you disagreeing with the adjustment to modernity?
> 
> ...



YOu are dodging the point again. 

It isn't what the FLAWED people thought. Yeah, they were wrong about a lot of stuff, which is why I always find it amusing when idiots like you say, "Well, they never put universal health care in the constitution, so it must be unconstitutional!" (Keeping in mind, their idea of good health care was leeches!)  

But Joseph Smith, according to Mormons- WAS TALKING TO GOD.  In fact, God told him all the other religions were wrong, and he had to start his very own.   Now, maybe Joseph Smith might have been limited by the thinking of a 19th century con-man with a sex addiction, but God certainly couldn't have messed it up that bad.


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## Locke11_21 (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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Excellent reply PoliticalChic!!  Here is something else, _*MIA LOVE*_, who is black and also Mormon is running as a Republican for the U.S. House of Representatives in Utah.  So, these people who think the Mormon church is racist should get with Mia, too on that one.

All the lefties have is racism, big bird, binders of women, inflated job numbers, personal attacks and ZERO idea and ZERO solutions.


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## 2ndAmendment (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> 
> 
> 
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yes!  We got a full page ad in our Sunday paper.   Additionally, Rev. Graham has paid for billboards.   

Speaking of the Moral Majority!   

thnx!


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## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

Locke11_21 said:


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I'm so glad the guy in your avatar is dead.  As I do with all America-destroyers.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 24, 2012)

Locke11_21 said:


> Excellent reply PoliticalChic!!  Here is something else, _*MIA LOVE*_, who is black and also Mormon is running as a Republican for the U.S. House of Representatives in Utah.  So, these people who think the Mormon church is racist should get with Mia, too on that one.
> 
> All the lefties have is racism, big bird, binders of women, inflated job numbers, personal attacks and ZERO idea and ZERO solutions.



Again, Mia Love being filled with self-loathing to the point where she marries a wussy looking white dude and joins a cult that considers her "cursed" due to her dark skin doesn't impress me.  

I'm sorry she can't get the therapy she obviously needs.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 24, 2012)

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Actually, laughing at your juvenile attempts to impose your will is the real success.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 24, 2012)

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And the paragon of Leftist character checks in.


When I read you post, above,I meditated on what kind of past would produce a boor like you.
I don't believe I've ever cheered the death of another.....


So, does that make me a better person than you? Pretty much.....although, as far as your and my character...it ranks as only one of many items on the scales of life.


OK....here is your opportunity to re-think the post, and mitigate.
Take a moment....compose yourself, and see if you have the ability to scamper up the ladder toward humanity.



Nothing less than penitential prostration will do.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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Throw yourself a FAIL party and call it a success!


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## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> *I don't believe I've ever cheered the death of another.....*



I cheered the death of bin Laden.  You didn't?

I cheered the death of Saddam - you didn't?

I cheered the death of Tim McVeigh - you didn't?

I cheered the death of John Allen Muhammad - you didn't?

I will also cheer Rush Limbaugh's death, whenever it should occur.

I cheer the death of anyone who is actively trying to destroy the United States, foreign or domestic.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 24, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> > *I don't believe I've ever cheered the death of another.....*
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Rush huh? of course you hate people speaking the truth.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 24, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> > *I don't believe I've ever cheered the death of another.....*
> ...



No.

I don't 'cheer' deaths.
De mortuis nil nisi bonum


I  try to allow time to pass before posting negative material about individuals with whom I have political differences.....as difficult as it is at times.



And this:
"I will also cheer Rush Limbaugh's death, whenever it should occur."

Disgusting.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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Of course you find it disgusting - you are on the side of those who seek to divide and destroy the United States.

You are a globalist who believes that if you can make a dime more by screwing Americans by investing overseas, you will jump at it.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 24, 2012)

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Wow....a post attempting to scurry away from your original disgusting post.


Good that you realize that it was an abomination.


As for " believes that if you can make a dime more by screwing Americans by investing overseas,"....


....my butler and chauffeur will be by to have a few words with you.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

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I am scurrying away from nothing.

There used to be a time when Republicans also were against those who would tear this country apart.

Then came Reagan.  And Gordon Gekko.  And now we have Romney, who would combine the failed policies of the former with the unbridled greed and "me, first" of the latter to totally abandon America while draping themselves in the American flag.

Disgusting, indeed.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 24, 2012)

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'And now we have Romney, who would combine the failed policies of the former with the unbridled greed and "me, first" of the latter to totally abandon America while draping themselves in the American flag.'

I cant decide if you are insane or crazy.



1. Republican presidential nominee Mitt *Romney was far more generous to charities than President Barack Obama or Vice President Joe Biden *last year, both in dollar terms and as a percentage of income, reported Politico. Romney and his wife, Ann, gave 29.4 percent of their income to charity in 2011, donating *$4,020,772 *out of the $13,696,951 they took in. Obama and first lady Michelle Obama gave 21.8 percent of their income to charitable organizations last year, donating $172,130 out of the $789,674 they made.
Romney


2. Looking at the ten-year total of *Bidens giving, *one percent would have been $24,500. One half of one percent would have been $12,250. One quarter of one percent would have been $6,125. And *one eighth of one percent *would have been $3,062  just below what Biden actually contributed.

The average American household gives about two percent of adjusted gross income, says Arthur Brooks, the Syracuse University scholar, soon to take over as head of the American Enterprise Institute, who has done extensive research on American giving. On average, [Biden] is not giving more than one tenth as much as the average American household, and that is evidence that he doesnt share charitable values with the average American.
Joe Biden and American Charity - Byron York - National Review Online



3. Up until recent years when their income increased sharply from book revenues and a Senate salary, *Obama's family donated a relatively minor amount of its earnings to charity. From 2000 through 2004,* the senator and his wife never gave more than $3,500 a year in charitable donations -- *about 1 percent *of their annual earnings.(Sam Stein   Huffington Post)
Obamas running mate, Joe Biden, was even stingier about spreading his wealth. When his tax records were released in September, they revealed that over the past decade he had only donated an average of $369 each year. In 2007, his charitable giving was only $995, or 0.3 percent of income in a year when his tax returns reported $319,853 in income.

Patterico's Pontifications » Obama and Bidens Charitable Giving: They Dont Want to Spread Their Own Wealth Around



Before you next post, you should consider asking yourself "Do I really want the word moron in my obituary?


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## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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He did not give to 'charities', he gave to his cult, the Mormon "church".

No different from paying dues at the country club.

The LDS cultists take in billions of dollars per year in dues, and - *in their entire history* - have only given $350 million to other, actual charities.

You have failed again, PC.  When are you going to learn that you are at a distinct disadvantage in this contest of intelligence and knowledge?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 24, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


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Well, well, well....the Mensa reject reminds why no one ever cheated off his paper.
Truly....you are a fool.

Time to award you 'The Wylie Coyote Mounting Disaster Award.'

The very idea that one as severely limited in knowledge and acumen as you are can pronounce judgment on what is and what is not a charity.....

...having as tenuous a hold on reality as you do, how do you find your way back to the refrigerator box you call home?


"We enjoy relationships with a number of organizations around the world dedicated to relief efforts and to humanitarian efforts that truly help strengthen families and communities.

Examples of our partners include:

Asociación Dominicana de Rehabilitación (ADR) in the Dominican Republic: Over ten years, we have organized seven projects with ADR in the Dominican Republic, resulting in the donation of 3,434 wheelchairs and the initiation of training programs for disabled individuals seeking employment. The founder of this organization has been dedicated to serving the disabled holistically and has been a model of a champion in making efforts to meet their needs. Our partnership thrives on the broad community support given to this well-established organization since its formation in 1986.

Islamic Relief Worldwide (IRW): We have partnered with IRW and its associated organizations since 2004. Together, we have helped relieve suffering in 15 countries with supplies and equipment needed in response to disasters and for other basic needs. Following the 2004 earthquake and tsunami in Indonesia, we worked together to build ten schools and three health centers.

L V Prasad Eye Institute (LVPEI): We have been working with the L V Prasad Eye Institute in Hyderabad, India, for several years to help establish rural eye clinics in India. The institutes director had a passion for benefiting the rural poor with an extensive plan. Recognizing a common goal, we provided the institute's rural clinics with the equipment necessary to treat and diagnose their patients. As of 2012, we predict that our assistance with equipment and supplies will help the institute provide eyeglasses, screen diabetes patients, perform general eye screenings in schools and villages, and train technicians, affecting a total of more than 150,000 individuals.
LDS Charities Partner Organizations

My, oh my.....if I were a Liberal, I'd be screaming what a LIAR you are. I'll simply say you were proven wrong......again.

Time and again you prove to be no more than a whiny tool, a true 'reliable Democrat voter'
and no more than comic relief.


And this:Two tenets of humanitarian aid define LDS Charities: 1)* One hundred percent of every dollar donated is used to help those in need without regard to race, religion, or ethnic origin, *and 2) LDS Charities helps people attain self-sufficiency so they can be self-reliant long after LDS Charities departs.

In 2011, help was provided to more than 2 million people in 132 countries. Currently we are receiving donations for:

Humanitarian Aid Fund
Clean Water
Wheelchairs
Neonatal Resuscitation Training
Vision Care
Food Production & Nutrition
LDS Charities


How do you like having your ignorance and prevarications revealed? 
Is this what usually happens?
Hope ya crunches come in bunches!



Dont look now, but someone wrote wash me on your back.


----------



## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

I didn't know you were a Mormon.  Now I understand your blinders.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 24, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. Senile old man, a TV evangilist, is what you consider a quality endorsement? One that has changed a lifelong aversion to the LDS simply on the basis of present politics?
> ...



Money and the promise of political power overrides settled faith...everytime.


----------



## Mustang (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do any of Graham's ads say the following:"Vote for the guy in a cult!"​


----------



## bodecea (Oct 24, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> "...to diligently and consistently remain politically neutral and nonpartisan throughout his public ministry..."
> 
> Yeah, there's nothing partisan in that ad...



Or thruout his life ministry.


----------



## bodecea (Oct 24, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



It would be delicious justice if the was such high profile hypocrisy the people really start to rally around the removal of religion's tax-exempt rip off.


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## bodecea (Oct 24, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


Excellent question.


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## bodecea (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


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## bodecea (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Noting you still avoid answering his question about Graham.


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## Mustang (Oct 24, 2012)

Harry Truman didn't like Billy Graham.  In fact, Truman had THIS to say about Graham.
"But now we've got just this one evangelist, this Billy Graham, and he's  gone off the beam. He's...well, I hadnt ought to say this, but hes one  of those counterfeits I was telling you about. He claims he's a friend  of all the Presidents, but he was never a friend of mine when I was  President. I just dont go for people like that. All he's interested in  is getting his name in the paper."[ ​


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## bodecea (Oct 24, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Of course you do...Rightwingers are known for embracing and reveling in their own hypocrisy.


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## Synthaholic (Oct 24, 2012)

bodecea said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


And one that PoliticalChic refuses to answer.


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## Locke11_21 (Oct 24, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Locke11_21 said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



No, Breitbart is not dead.  He is very much alive in millions of people, including me.  I believe Breitbart is looking down from Heaven and is very proud of the impact he has had, his impact with the new media will forever live.  

Thanks for the reply you gave, it more than proves what people say about the left, in that they want anyone who disagrees with them dead.  Nice to see you couldn't address the reply, but instead replied in the manner you did.  Yep, leftism is indeed a mental disorder, and your reply proved it.  All too easy.


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## JoeB131 (Oct 25, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> I didn't know you were a Mormon.  Now I understand your blinders.



It would explain the Crazy....


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## bodecea (Oct 25, 2012)

Locke11_21 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Locke11_21 said:
> ...


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## Synthaholic (Oct 25, 2012)

Locke11_21 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Locke11_21 said:
> ...


Reported.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 25, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > "Influential pastor Billy Graham is signaling to evangelical Christians that they shouldn't hesitate to vote for Mitt Romney because of his Mormon religion, further cementing Romney's strong standing with the key Republican voting bloc.
> ...




Wow, you are a hypocrite for supporting Romney? Sort of reminiscent of the very notion of having a strong believing "Catholic" (John F Kennedy) serving as President of the United States. So what does that say of an evangelical who supports a candidate who then changes his views on marriage, which stands contrary to HIS aclaimed christian belief? Would that choice be viewed as being just as hypocritical? What does a man's faith values have to do with his decision for the economy and the current state (direction) of our country?


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 25, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > I get the idea that obama is losing because he is.
> ...




Obama also has to contend with all the young college graduates that are having a tough time finding a job in this economy. It's not exactly the Hope and Change they were promised, as they can't find the high paying careers they hoped to base their degrees on. Instead, these young graduates are waking up to the reality of working at jobs serving as waiters, or similar low paying positions, having to instead shelve their career they had once hoped to attain. Bumper sticker slogans aren't going to work this time, for those seeking to earn a better way of life. President Obama has a lot to answer to from them.


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## thanatos144 (Oct 25, 2012)

Synthaholic said:


> Locke11_21 said:
> 
> 
> > Synthaholic said:
> ...


You reported him for pointing out your a hateful bitch???? Gee thin skinned aren't you?


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 25, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...


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## bodecea (Oct 25, 2012)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 25, 2012)

bodecea said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 25, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...




Why DID Gore pick and choose which counties he wanted recounted and not the entire state? Why did the mainstream media call Florida a win for Gore when the western part of Florida still had voting stations opened for a least another hour? Why does the left complain about an election back in 2000, but are against measures that add certainty of the voter's validity in an election? If they don't want the added security of measures that ensure an honest vote, why keep rehashing old wounds of the past?  Get over it.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 25, 2012)

Billy Graham doesn't have a tax exempt status.  He is entitled to do anything with his money that he wants.  He is a private citizen like George Soros is a private citizen.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Billy Graham doesn't have a tax exempt status.  He is entitled to do anything with his money that he wants.  He is a private citizen like George Soros is a private citizen.



I for one, don't mind when a minister shares the biblical views found when dealing with certain "issues". However, I also believe that a true believer of his faith ought to also have enough scriptural knowledge to come to their own conclusions of which candidate most represents their spiritual views. I find that I get my fill of "politics" from newspapers and various media outlets from home / work / the gym (heaven help me if an Obama advertisement appears at a movie theater before the upcoming previews has a chance to start), the last thing I want is an hour lecture of politics from a pastor. 

As far as political views of an evangelist surrounding his concerns over a certain candidate, if it's done from his own home or an event OUTSIDE of the atmosphere of the church, I am fine with that. He or she is free to speak on their opinions, that's what the first ammendment allows for each of us regardless of faith, background, or status.


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## Katzndogz (Oct 25, 2012)

Billy Graham is not an evagelist.  He retired in 2005.  He's entitled to say anything he likes.


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## bodecea (Oct 25, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...


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## MarcATL (Oct 25, 2012)

Cheddarmelon said:


> You do NOT want to get in to a war of biblical quotemining with me, sweetheart.  You really don't.


Welcome to the board my brother. I see you'll be a much needed and appropriate addition to our little abode.

Along with what you're saying, these radical RW fundamentalist Republicans are of the false belief that them and only them are Christians, when in fact they are the ones who aren't. They believe they know the Bible...which in fact, they don't. Like you said, they cherry pick, and the Bible has something to say about those that cherry pick. For example.



			
				Matthew 5:18
King James Version (KJV) said:
			
		

> For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


*Source:* Matthew 5:18 KJV - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven - Bible Gateway



Cheddarmelon said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Cheddarmelon said:
> ...


You're right sir, they don't know the a lick about the Bible. They only know the parts they were handed down by their corrupt handlers, akin to the Scribes and Pharisees.

Here's what Jesus said about the rich that these morally corrupt RW radicals worship...



			
				Matthew 19:24
King James Version (KJV) said:
			
		

> And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


*Source:* Matthew 19:24 KJV - And again I say unto you, It is easier - Bible Gateway

This is what Jesus said was important...



			
				Matthew 22:38-40
King James Version (KJV) said:
			
		

> 38 This is the first and great commandment.
> 
> 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
> 
> 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


*Source: *Matthew 22:38-40 KJV - This is the first and great - Bible Gateway

This is who Jesus said is important...



			
				Matthew 5:5
King James Version (KJV) said:
			
		

> Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


*Source: *Matthew 5:5 KJV - Blessed are the meek: for they shall - Bible Gateway

So anyone can easily see how corrupt these radicals really are, they've so corrupted themselves and their view of the Bible that they've elevated the rich to god status, worthy of worship and pushed down the poor to the level of constant demonization.

They have some nerve calling themselves Christians.


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 25, 2012)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> [
> 
> Wow, you are a hypocrite for supporting Romney? Sort of reminiscent of the very notion of having a strong believing "Catholic" (John F Kennedy) serving as President of the United States. So what does that say of an evangelical who supports a candidate who then changes his views on marriage, which stands contrary to HIS aclaimed christian belief? Would that choice be viewed as being just as hypocritical? What does a man's faith values have to do with his decision for the economy and the current state (direction) of our country?



I think you missed the point.  

If Grahmn had preached for 60 years that the Pope was the Anti-Christ, and then decided to drop all reference to that and support JFK because Nixon was really mean to him once, then, yes, Grahamn would be a hypocrite.


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## Mustang (Oct 25, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



I wonder if Billy Graham's son, Franklin, convinced (or coerced) his father to do this considering how old his father is and how much more partisan Franklin is.


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## MarcATL (Oct 25, 2012)

Mustang said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...


You're on to something there Mustang. Although Billy himself is a partisan, he's not as uber-partisan as his rabid RW son, who he's had to clip his wings on occassion or two for being too overtyly partisan.


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## butlerkaren67 (Oct 31, 2012)

I haven't read his ads yet, but I sure would like too. For one thing our Country was founded on Christianity and for the Advancement of the Christian Faith: found in the "Mayflower Compact", 
I do believe Billy Graham posted the ad because God led him too. So here are some quotes:

"O Lord, Almighty and everlasting God, by Thy Word Thou hast created the heaven, and the earth, and the sea; blessed and glorified be Thy Name, and praised be Thy Majesty, which hath deigned to use us, Thy humble servants, that Thy Holy Name may be proclaimed in this second part of the earth." ----------------------------Christopher Columbus

"In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for divine protection. Our prayers were heard, and they were graciously answered...Have we not forgotten this powerful friend? Or do we no longer need his assistance?"


I have lived a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth:"that God governs the affairs of man." And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?"
                                                                 ------------------------------Ben Franklin to the
                                                                                 Constitutional Congress 1787       

"The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty."---------------------------Thomas Jefferson

"Posterity--you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it."------------------------------John Quincy Adams

"It is impossible rightly to govern the world without God and the Bible."
                                                                                         -----------George Washington   

"I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our fathers,as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life;who has covered our infancy with His providence and our riper years with His wisdom and power.-------------------------------------Thomas Jefferson

from "GOD BLESS AMERICA" Prayers & Reflections For Our Country


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## JoeB131 (Oct 31, 2012)

butlerkaren67 said:


> I haven't read his ads yet, but I sure would like too. For one thing our Country was founded on Christianity and for the Advancement of the Christian Faith: found in the "Mayflower Compact",
> I do believe Billy Graham posted the ad because God led him too. So here are some quotes:



The people who did those quotes also believed in witches, thought that bleeding people was a valid medical treatment, thought that it was right for one human being to own another because the Bible said that was nifty.  

We've evolved beyond that, and we should all be grateful for that.  

I'd have no problem with Mitt and Grahmn's Christianity if they actually did some of the things Jesus said, like looking out for the poor and treating people the way they want to be treated. 

Their version of Christianity looks more like Ayn Rand than Jesus, and that's the problem.


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## DutchBoy (Oct 31, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Than Graham actually wants people to vote for Obama. The book of Mormon is not the bible.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 1, 2012)

DutchBoy said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> ...




"Graham actually wants people to vote for Obama."

Really?

Is that the candidate that you believe is suggested in the following:

3. "I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on *biblical principles and support the nation of Israel.*

4. I urge you to vote for those who *protect the sanctity of life and support the biblical definition of marriage between a man and a woman.*

5. Vote for *biblical values *this November 6, and pray with me that *America will remain one nation under God."*



Did you realize that Obama supports infanticide?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2012)

Why are we voting on a book of superstition written 3000 years ago by Bronze Age Savages?  

I'd much rather have us vote on common sense and what makes sense for us to do now.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Nov 2, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Why are we voting on a book of superstition written 3000 years ago by Bronze Age Savages?
> 
> I'd much rather have us vote on common sense and what makes sense for us to do now.





Common sense is what tells you that two plumb lines are parallel.
I have no doubt that such is the guide-post of your life.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Why are we voting on a book of superstition written 3000 years ago by Bronze Age Savages?
> ...



Bizarro Girl, there are a whole bunch of Bible Rules you don't follow...  

You don't own slaves, stone your neighbors for working on the Sabbath, kill your gay neighbor, ask the town to help you stone your kids when they talk back, chop off body parts as punishment for crimes.   

In short, when you guys say, "live a biblical lifestyle", what you really mean is, "Stick to my own bigotries and prejudices and try to impose them on you by citing the bible as an authority, even though I ignore most of it."  

I have a simpler approach. 

 Does my action hurt someone? If not, there's nothing immoral about it. 

 Does what you are doing effect me in any way? If not, it's none of my business.  

No sky pixies, no goofy verses about slaughtering animals to appease sky pixies, and so on.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 2, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...





Here is the number one reason I value your posts....don't misunderstand: there's no #2...it gives me an inspiration for an OP.

Based on the above, I might write one on the value of morality over rationality.



Watch for it....and learn from it.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 2, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...





' ...you guys say, "live a biblical lifestyle",...'


Quotation marks?

Exactly who are you quoting?


No wonder you're 'Erroneous Joe.'


----------



## lovemymutts (Nov 2, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well Billy Graham is after all a HYPOCRITE. He does relealize the consequences hopefully!


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 2, 2012)

lovemymutts said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
> ...



You really do fear religion dont you?


----------



## lovemymutts (Nov 2, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> lovemymutts said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



No not at all, Just able to see hypocrisy clearly.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Nov 2, 2012)

lovemymutts said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > lovemymutts said:
> ...






Don't like the messenger?


What about the message?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> Here is the number one reason I value your posts....don't misunderstand: there's no #2...it gives me an inspiration for an OP.
> 
> Based on the above, I might write one on the value of morality over rationality.
> 
> Watch for it....and learn from it.



Why, watching you try to handle philosophical considerations is kind of like watcthing this... 








You are neither moral nor rational.  Quite possibly mentally ill.


----------



## mamooth (Nov 2, 2012)

I read "Ask Billy Graham" every day, as my local paper prints it in the comics section. It's convenient, how each day some lost soul sets up a strawman about atheists for Billy Graham to knock down. And always in exactly the same bland style. "Dear Billy Graham, my atheist friend told me there's no historical evidence for Jesus. I didn't know how to reply. What should I have said?".

Why yes, I am saying that Graham, or his ghostwriter, is creating the questions himself. It really is that obvious. He's not an honest man.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

mamooth said:


> I read "Ask Billy Graham" every day, as my local paper prints it in the comics section. It's convenient, how each day some lost soul sets up a strawman about atheists for Billy Graham to knock down. And always in exactly the same bland style. "Dear Billy Graham, my atheist friend told me there's no historical evidence for Jesus. I didn't know how to reply. What should I have said?".
> 
> Why yes, I am saying that Graham, or his ghostwriter, is creating the questions himself. It really is that obvious. He's not an honest man.




Does his message in the OP have import?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > I read "Ask Billy Graham" every day, as my local paper prints it in the comics section. It's convenient, how each day some lost soul sets up a strawman about atheists for Billy Graham to knock down. And always in exactly the same bland style. "Dear Billy Graham, my atheist friend told me there's no historical evidence for Jesus. I didn't know how to reply. What should I have said?".
> ...



Um... yeah... it does. 

For years and years, BIlly Grahmn and people around him have called Mormonism a cult. 

Which means that they were telling Christians that the Mormons were peddling a false doctrine that could lead people into Hell and Damnation for all eternity.   Forever. 

Now, to me, this is a silly argument, because there is no God or Heaven or Hell, but if you really believe that there is, this SHOULD be a big deal.  

So what really changed that suddenly, Mormonism is no longer a cult, and it is no longer misleading people into possible damnation?  

That a Mormon is the only chance you guys have of stopping Obama from getting a second term.  

That seems to me to be pretty flimsy theology.   But if Theology wasn't flismy in general, I wouldn't have rejected religion 30 years ago.


----------



## Jimmy_Jam (Nov 3, 2012)

To try and bring things back on course, I think the issue is that Graham has asserted for decades that Mormonism is a cult, and now that one is running for Republican presidency, he has coincidentally changed his stance on the subject. Billy Graham has been a powerful and influential spiritual leader for many decades. How is it not appropriate to question his convictions and his integrity if he is willing to overlook a decades-long religious conviction for the sake of party loyalty? how is it not appropriate to question whether or not his party loyalties outweigh his faith? 

A Mormon running for President 20 years ago would have been unheard of. I gotta hand it to him, Romney is charming the socks off of mainstream Christianity. 

p.s. I am questioning Graham's integrity, not that of Republicans.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2012)

Jimmy_Jam said:


> To try and bring things back on course, I think the issue is that Graham has asserted for decades that Mormonism is a cult, and now that one is running for Republican presidency, he has coincidentally changed his stance on the subject. Billy Graham has been a powerful and influential spiritual leader for many decades. How is it not appropriate to question his convictions and his integrity if he is willing to overlook a decades-long religious conviction for the sake of party loyalty? how is it not appropriate to question whether or not his party loyalties outweigh his faith?
> 
> A Mormon running for President 20 years ago would have been unheard of. I gotta hand it to him, Romney is charming the socks off of mainstream Christianity.
> 
> p.s. I am questioning Graham's integrity, not that of Republicans.



Actually, you should probably question both.  

Mormons Running for President is nothing new. Joseph Smith (Liar, Child Molestor, Founder of Mormonism) Put his name in nomination for the presidency in 1844. Thankfully, they quickly shot him after that.  

Romney's Dad ran in 1968, until he made an idiotic statement about how the Army had "Brainwashed him" on the subject of Vietnam.  (Funny, I thought being a Mormon, the brains come pre-washed.)  

Got to use up all these snide comments about Mormonism, probably won't be talking about it much after Wednesday..  Heh,heh, heh....


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...



Glad you reminded me, Erroneous Joe....

...here is the thread I've dedicated to you:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/259427-common-sense-vs-the-bible.html



I didn't use your title, as I didn't ask your permission...but you'll recognize your words.


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## Jimmy_Jam (Nov 3, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Jimmy_Jam said:
> 
> 
> > To try and bring things back on course, I think the issue is that Graham has asserted for decades that Mormonism is a cult, and now that one is running for Republican presidency, he has coincidentally changed his stance on the subject. Billy Graham has been a powerful and influential spiritual leader for many decades. How is it not appropriate to question his convictions and his integrity if he is willing to overlook a decades-long religious conviction for the sake of party loyalty? how is it not appropriate to question whether or not his party loyalties outweigh his faith?
> ...



I didn't think I would have to qualify the statement, but if I have to: 

A Mormon gaining the nomination of either of the two big parties would have been unheard of.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

Jimmy_Jam said:


> To try and bring things back on course, I think the issue is that Graham has asserted for decades that Mormonism is a cult, and now that one is running for Republican presidency, he has coincidentally changed his stance on the subject. Billy Graham has been a powerful and influential spiritual leader for many decades. How is it not appropriate to question his convictions and his integrity if he is willing to overlook a decades-long religious conviction for the sake of party loyalty? how is it not appropriate to question whether or not his party loyalties outweigh his faith?
> 
> A Mormon running for President 20 years ago would have been unheard of. I gotta hand it to him, Romney is charming the socks off of mainstream Christianity.
> 
> p.s. I am questioning Graham's integrity, not that of Republicans.




There is a great error you and Erroneous Joe make, in believing that we are dealing with a theological issue....rather than a political one.

No one is suggesting a vote for a religious belief...merely the clear choice between the political beliefs of Romney and Obama.

Proof?

Sure.

Name any religious dictum imposed by Romney as governor of Massachusetts.
If you cannot....my premise prevails.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> [
> 
> Glad you reminded me, Erroneous Joe....
> 
> ...



Honestly, I have to truly wonder, reading that drivel, if you aren't a few tacos short of a combination platter.  

You put up my argument, and then you did everything but address it... 

But since you are feeling SOOOO special, maybe I'll try to school you one more time..


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


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Looking forward to it.


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## Jimmy_Jam (Nov 3, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


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I wasn't questioning Romney, I was questioning Graham. And you're right, it is every bit a political issue. That was my point.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

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Are you sure?

You did write this: "A Mormon running for President 20 years ago would have been unheard of. I gotta hand it to him, Romney is charming the socks off of mainstream Christianity."


But....I can appreciate one trying to put daylight between their position and that of the bigot Erroneous Joe.


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## Jimmy_Jam (Nov 3, 2012)

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Yes, I'm pretty sure. 

Mainstream Christians in the U.S. tend to be Republicans. Romney is, for the most part, winning the support of many mainstream Christians. Billy Graham is helping to sway some of the Christians that do not for religious reasons by simultaneously removing Mormonism from his "cult" list and endorsing Romney. This is fairly academic, yes? 

While religion is a factor to the individual voter who votes with Bible in hand, for the GOP it is overtly political, since mainstream Christians are little more than a demographic consideration. If you gain Graham's endorsement, you gain a great number of Christians that may otherwise have objected to you for religious reasons. So, because Graham is a well-established icon to mainstream Christians, Romney is, through him, charming the socks off of mainstream Christianity. It was a potentially enormous political cementing job. 

I'm sure there will be a few radical Christians who will still view Romney as the Antichrist, but Graham's endorsement is pretty big. Now, I am a Republican, but not a Christian. Despite this, I think it is a legitimate concern to question the integrity of somebody who is a major spiritual leader, and who is identified primarily by that role, if he would overturn a decades-old religious conviction in favor of his political party. Is his change of heart based upon his spiritual convictions or his party? It could be a combination of the two, but ultimately it is clear that his religious convictions have taken a backseat to party affiliation. 

Allow me to use a hypothetical comparison. Bill Maher has repeatedly and consistently bashed Scientology. He is also a liberal. Suppose for a moment that a Scientologist won the Democratic nomination for Presidency. Suppose that the next day, Bill Maher suddenly stopped bashing Scientology and promoted it as a legitimate religious belief. Would you not question his integrity? I suspect you would, and it would be for political, not religious, reasons.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

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"Allow me to use a hypothetical comparison. Bill Maher has repeatedly and consistently bashed Scientology. He is also a liberal. Suppose for a moment that a Scientologist won the Democratic nomination for Presidency. Suppose that the next day, Bill Maher suddenly stopped bashing Scientology and promoted it as a legitimate religious belief. Would you not question his integrity? I suspect you would, and it would be for political, not religious, reasons."

No, no, no, JJ....


Very poor comparison.

An accuratate one would be the following: we regularly use Arabic numerals. Would we stop doing so as a result of 9/11?


You see, the numbers retain their validity, as does the message delivered by Graham.
Who the messenger is has no bearing.


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## Jimmy_Jam (Nov 3, 2012)

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I didn't mind much your questioning. I thought we were on to a very nice and productive debate there for a minute. I do not in any way get your comparison. Please explain.

My comparison is valid in that it demonstrates a long-held moral or ideological position that is changed in support of a political candidate. It really is as simple as that. 

It's not the end of the world. Ultimately it doesn't bother me much that he did it. He can do whatever he wants, and for whatever reasons he wants. It is a political move, and I am calling it such, just as you seem to be calling it such. People do it all the time, whether they admit to it or not. I am a Republican, but not a Christian. I am at odds with the predominant Republican who IS Christian. I'm okay with that. I am still going to predominantly support Republican candidates despite that because of a larger political picture. That is essentially what Graham is doing. I don't have a problem with that, per se.

The integrity issue comes in when he coincidentally changes his posture on a belief that Mormonism is a cult. Suddenly it is not. That makes his integrity questionable. Had he simply endorsed Romney with the position of "I don't agree with Mormonism but I am endorsing Romney for the bigger political picture," then fine, but by also changing his position on something he has been pretty serious about for decades calls his integrity into question. That's really all I am saying. 

Hey, this is my issue with the man, and I'm simply offering my perspective. It doesn't have to be yours or anybody else's. I don't mind you questioning me at all. However, if my hypothetical comparison is not appropriate, how so?


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

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Maher would be responding to policies, not religious doctrines.

In my example, we would consider Arabic numerals as retaining their usefulness, no matter the actions of members of the group.


Graham has nothing to do with the validity of his message....
You may claim that those who respect him will vote as he suggests because of Graham, without reference to the validity of the message, but that is only tangentially  connected to the question.


Consider this as his message: 45+20=65.
Does the rectitude depend on the messenger?


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## Jimmy_Jam (Nov 3, 2012)

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Since this thread is largely op-ed in nature, I will say that I believe Graham has quite a bit to do with it. 

There are numbers of people who will vote based on his endorsement. If it were simply the message, then I could deliver the same message, and nobody would be swayed by it, because who am I? I'm just a schmoe with no popular or political clout who posts on a website along with a bunch of other schmoes. But Graham, he's practically God's right hand man, right?

I don't lose respect for him because he endorses Romney, I lose respect for his character because he is reversing a religious belief in support of a political candidate, in an effort to sway Christian voters who up to that point would have said "hey, Graham says Mormonism is a cult, so I'm not too sure about this guy." 

I'll use myself as an example instead of Maher. I tend to support Republican candidates more so than Democratic ones because of a fundamental political approach. There are some issues that many Republicans pin their religious convictions on, and I simply don't share that with them. For example, the lack of Christian representation in public schools doesn't really bother me. I think the Supreme Court has ruled pretty well in most respects of state endorsement of religion, and I don't care much about the perceived "attack on Christianity" that the far religious right believe is going on, and even if there is somewhat of an attack, I don't believe anything tragic has happened. 

If I vote for Romney, that doesn't suddenly make me start advocating school prayer, now does it? I would be doing so out of interest for a bigger political picture, but I'm not changing anything about myself, and I am being very honest about it. Now, if I simultaneously start saying that I believe in mandatory school prayer even though I have said for decades that I don't, then I have an integrity issue. I may have changed my stance for personal reasons, but I would be a rightful target for anybody who would want to give me flack over it.

If the message were all that mattered, then Graham would not have had to worry about removing Mormonism from his list of cults. The political maneuver demanded that he do it. The moment he did it, he transitioned from "religious figure with political ties" to a firmly political figure. Ultimately it's a speck on the radar. When Vatican II happened, there was some stink, but the Catholic Church made the transition. The same will happen here if Romney wins. A religion that has been considered a religious cult for many decades among mainstream Christians will find themselves suddenly in the club.

Essentially, Graham has conceded a position long held.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 3, 2012)

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1. Do you have an opinion of the message?

2.I'd like to take you up on this tangent:
"If I vote for Romney, that doesn't suddenly make me start advocating school prayer, now does it? I would be doing so out of interest for a bigger political picture, but I'm not changing anything about myself, and I am being very honest about it. Now, if I simultaneously start saying that I believe in mandatory school prayer even though I have said for decades that I don't, then I have an integrity issue. I may have changed my stance for personal reasons, but I would be a rightful target for anybody who would want to give me flack over it.

Are you conflating 'school prayer,' which I endorse, with 'mandatory school prayer,' which no one endorses?
Was that by accident?


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## Jimmy_Jam (Nov 3, 2012)

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If you're meaning his message as you put forth in the OP, then yes. I don't vote based on Biblical principles, and that is exactly what he is calling Americans to do. So, this message is not meant for me, but for those that do. It is meant for Christians. It is also meant to persuade Christians who would be apprehensive about Romney because of his Mormon beliefs to cast them aside. He has simultaneously embraced Mormonism into the mainstream Christian fold, which is pretty precedent-setting considering how long he has considered Mormonism a cult. Otherwise his message would mean nothing. Is there something about the message that I am missing?

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take up the tangent. It was not meant as a tangent, merely an example. I can use any number of examples. 

Let's make it completely outside of religion altogether. My wife is pretty moderate, as I am, but she tends to lean a little to the left, as I lean a little to the right. She is a Democrat, but she holds some notable views that are in stark contrast to the Democratic rank and file. For example, she firmly supports the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. She may not be a card-carrying NRA member, but her views certainly don't mirror the Dem rank and file in any way. If she were to have some sort of political influence through some sort of Democratic group, and she endorsed that group, and as part of that endorsement she also took up the call and started campaigning for stricter gun control, then she has forsaken an individual cause she formerly embraced for the sake of the party line. That is exactly what Graham has done in this case. Now, we can attempt to go off on a tangent about the right to bear arms, but that's not the issue. I just don't see how you can disagree with the corollary.

This is a largely philosophical debate. I am bringing to issue the question of integrity. Integrity is the consistency of a person's words and beliefs with his or her actions. I see some integrity issues here. Is it earth-shattering? No. It's an interesting discussion nonetheless.


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## The VOR (Nov 7, 2012)

PoliticalChic said:


> The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association this week removed Mormonism from its list of religious cults, the Charlotte Observer reports.


I guess now that the election is over, and mittens lost, that crazy old fuck graham will put mormonism back on the cult list.


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## sealybobo (Mar 2, 2018)

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "Washington (CNN) - The most famous and revered pastor in America, Billy Graham, is calling on voters to cast a ballot for their faith in full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and other newspapers.
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Not sad to see this scumbag go.  He has ruined America.  The climate we have today is because of scum like this asshole.  Burn in hell Billy.  Burn in hell.  

Billy Graham's Legacy Is Conflating White Christianity And Patriotism | HuffPost


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## sealybobo (Mar 2, 2018)

The VOR said:


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We know he didn't like Jews

Graham's closest presidential relationship was with Richard Nixon, who offered him any government job he wanted - including ambassador to Israel

Graham found himself at times in controversy over his disapproving stand on gay rights, as well as over a secretly recorded conversation with Nixon in which the cleric complained that Jews had too much influence on the U.S. media. In the later years of his career he intentionally muted his political beliefs to focus on the Gospel.

Donald Trump said on Twitter: "The GREAT Billy Graham is dead. There was nobody like him! He will be missed by Christians and all religions. A very special man."

I don't think the jews miss him Don.

Nixon aide H.R. Haldeman first mentioned Graham's anti-Semitic remarks in a 1994 book, which Graham strongly denied. But when audio tapes from the Nixon White House were released in 2002, Graham could be heard referring to Jews as pornographers and agreeing with Nixon that the U.S. media was dominated by liberal Jews and could send the United States "down the drain."

'They're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff,'' Graham said to Nixon - "the Jewish stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain,'' he continued.

Graham also confided in Nixon that he hid his true feelings about Jews from them: ''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal (then executive editor) at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country.


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## longknife (Mar 4, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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You really have to sink to the low of attacking a man who cannot defend himself?

You atheist Leftists are really sick.


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## Picaro (Mar 5, 2018)

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Yep. No genuine reason for respecting them in any way , shape, or fashion any more.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2018)

longknife said:


> You really have to sink to the low of attacking a man who cannot defend himself?
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> You atheist Leftists are really sick.



Why? Most people made these criticism of him while he was alive.


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## sealybobo (Mar 5, 2018)

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After hearing those tapes of him with Nixon fuck him. Not a good man. We talk bad about hitler no one complains


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## sealybobo (Mar 5, 2018)

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More proof you don’t really believe that son of a bitch is in heaven. If he was you wouldn’t care how we speak of him. 

Maybe I should do what Billy graham did to the Jews. Say nice things publically about him but in private say he’s what is wrong with America.

Would you like that? Ok. He was a great guy. NOT


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## Picaro (Mar 5, 2018)

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So, you're saying he was merely being anti-semitic, or that you don't think Jews in fact dominated the porn industry, or owned and/or managed a big chunk of the Movie, television, and major newspapers at the time?

What did he do to 'The Jews', exactly?


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## Erinwltr (Mar 5, 2018)

Waste of money.


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## sealybobo (Mar 5, 2018)

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It’s his opinion that they are ruining this country, then turn around and pretend to be their friends. Then lied and cried when he got caught, after he denied. Now he’s in hell deep fried.

How can you believe anything him or Jim baker say publically. You know they’re lyin


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## Picaro (Mar 5, 2018)

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So, he didn't actually say anything most people, including Jews, didn't already know. 

Okay thanks for playing.


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## sealybobo (Mar 5, 2018)

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I'm just glad the jews know how you guys really feel about them.  When you say this is a jewdao christian nation, you don't really mean it.

He's a coward and a liar if he won't admit what he really believes.  But we already know what he is no matter what he says publicly.  

Nixon aide H.R. Haldeman first mentioned Graham's anti-Semitic remarks in a 1994 book, which Graham strongly denied. But when audio tapes from the Nixon White House were released in 2002, Graham could be heard referring to Jews as pornographers and agreeing with Nixon that the U.S. media was dominated by liberal Jews and could send the United States "down the drain."

''They're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff,'' Graham said to Nixon - "the Jewish stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain,'' he continued.

Graham also confided in Nixon that he hid his true feelings about Jews from them: ''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal (then executive editor) at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And all -- I mean, not all the Jews, but a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country. And I have no power, no way to handle them, but I would stand up if under proper circumstances.''

Graham, who had a long history of supporting Israel, apologized profusely after the tapes' release and said he had no recollection of the conversation.

"If it wasn't on tape, I would not have believed it," Graham told Newsweek. "I guess I was trying to please. I felt so badly about myself - I couldn't believe it. I went to a meeting with Jewish leaders and I told them I would crawl to them to ask their forgiveness."


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## sealybobo (Mar 5, 2018)

Where is Billy's grave?


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## sealybobo (Mar 5, 2018)

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He's a two faced liar.  Why does a man of god have to hide the truth and lie?    

''I go and I keep friends with Mr. Rosenthal (then executive editor) at The New York Times and people of that sort, you know. And a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine, they swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country.  

said he had no recollection of the conversation.  REALLY?  LIAR!  Is Jesus alright with lying?

Later he said he "went to a meeting with Jewish leaders and I told them I would crawl to them to ask their forgiveness."

Why crawl if you are being truthful and sincere?  Born agains make me want to puke.


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## Picaro (Mar 7, 2018)

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Well, I'm more than a little Jewish, myself, and I don't consider it 'anti-semitic' when somebody points out the very extensive presence of Jews on the ownership and management of major media  corps, nor am I at all angry when it's pointed out many of them are biased bigots, and their editorial staffs reflect that. Jews pretty much invented Hollywood and the studio system, dominated TV networks, radio, and newspapers, and magazines. People have every right to be interested in that, and why, especially when so many Jews, secular, orthodox, reformed, or atheist, pretty much hate Christians, always have. It's not by any means 100%, but a large enough percentage to make it a issue in the culture wars. You racists certainly have no problem demonizing whites, conservatives, or anybody else who doesn't buy your nasty little hate fests. Yes, it's stupid to believe Jews all line up for big cash giveaways as part of some club or something, but that myth doesn't preclude some Jews indeed conspiring against WASP culture and trying to destroy it, just out of spite or some other snivel or other. Most of those 'liberal' Jews are major hypocrites just like you are, incredibly racist themselves, and only support 'Civil Rights' because they think it's a way to screw over WASP's or something.. They wouldn't 'be caught dead hanging out with black people or any body else but their own; they even buy up whole towns or neighborhoods in order to insulate themselves, while at the same time run around filing anti-discrimination suits against others for the same practice.

I've posted this interview before, it bears reading again; it's long, and you're not very intelligent, so we know you aren't going to read it, but the Peanut Gallery who is those things and want to understand certain Jewish political concerns. Read the whole thing. This Rabbi is a genuine intellectual, and calls it like it is.

Judaism, Culture and the Gentile World: A Conversation with Rabbi Mayer Schiller

Judaism, Culture and the Gentile World: A Conversation with Rabbi Mayer Schiller

You want to claim special status for being a member of some minority or other, you also get to take the critiques of that culture if you're going to attack others for theirs.


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## Picaro (Mar 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Where is Billy's grave?



Yes, we know you are mentally ill, infantile, and emotionally stunted, as are most of your peers here. Anything new to say?


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## sealybobo (Mar 7, 2018)

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Translation, you don’t care what he thinks because he supported defending Israel.

Guys like you know how republicans feel about you but you’re ok with it because they are pro Israel.


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