# Elder care costs keep climbing; nursing home bill now $91K



## Disir (Apr 11, 2015)

NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.

The annual "Cost of Care" report from Genworth Financial tracks the staggering rise in expenses for long-term care, a growing financial burden for families, governments and insurers like Genworth. The cost of staying in a nursing home has increased 4 percent every year over the last five years, the report says. Last year, the median bill was $87,600.

"Most people don't realize how expensive this care can be until a parent or family member needs it," said Joe Caldwell, director of long-term services at the National Council on Aging. "And then it's a real shock."

...One year in a nursing home now costs nearly as much as three years of tuition at a private college.
Elder care costs keep climbing nursing home bill now 91K - Yahoo Finance

I wonder how many of these are offering lobster etc. on a daily basis? I wonder how many of these places have well trained and well paid staff?


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## Hossfly (Apr 11, 2015)

Disir said:


> NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
> 
> The annual "Cost of Care" report from Genworth Financial tracks the staggering rise in expenses for long-term care, a growing financial burden for families, governments and insurers like Genworth. The cost of staying in a nursing home has increased 4 percent every year over the last five years, the report says. Last year, the median bill was $87,600.
> 
> ...


I saw this on the news yesterday and was sorta shocked until it was reported that one state in New England the cost in one home was $290,000. That shocked me. My Mother was in a home in Smithfield, NC and all they charged was her Social Security benefit.


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## HenryBHough (Apr 11, 2015)

If your elder is in California it is vitally important that you blow their entire wealth on the first six months or so of nursing home care.  Private room for sure.  

That's because of the way state law works.  When the wealth is gone the state is obliged to continue the standard of care for which you were paying.  So if you take the most economical approach so the money will last a little longer then you're condemning your elder to minimal care for the rest of their life.  When by blowing through the bucks as fast as possible you can assure them of a Cadillac care plan to the very end.

If you want to read the rules *do your own research*.

_I'm speaking from the advice give me by California's bureaucracy when I had to deal with the situation.  The lady lived to age 100 in the best of conditions thanks to that one bit of information._


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## Sonny Clark (Apr 11, 2015)

Disir said:


> NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
> 
> The annual "Cost of Care" report from Genworth Financial tracks the staggering rise in expenses for long-term care, a growing financial burden for families, governments and insurers like Genworth. The cost of staying in a nursing home has increased 4 percent every year over the last five years, the report says. Last year, the median bill was $87,600.
> 
> ...


If you've never visited anyone in a nursing home, I can clue you in on how many of them treat the elderly. People that run and staff nursing homes should be put in prison for life without parole. It's so sad to actually see it, and to hear the horror stories. And, when the elderly die, the unpaid bill is usually past along to family members.


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## Manonthestreet (Apr 11, 2015)

So that 500 grand those walmart employees saved up doesnt go very far at all


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## HenryBHough (Apr 11, 2015)

If anyone reading this thread is thinking ahead to a need to provide care for an elder then PLEASE check with your state's bureaucracy and a lawyer specializing in "elder issues".  Do it as long as possible in advance of need; YEARS ahead is not too long though it does mean touching base a couple of times a year to be sure things haven't changed in a way that will obsolete all your planning.

The rules pertaining to payment for that kind of care VARY WILDLY!  If you mistime any move by even an hour you can create liabilities that will dog your family for generations.


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## Manonthestreet (Apr 11, 2015)

Dont wait til care is needed to start checking prices early and comparing whats included. in case there is long waiting list.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 12, 2016)

Disir said:


> NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
> 
> The annual "Cost of Care" report from Genworth Financial tracks the staggering rise in expenses for long-term care, a growing financial burden for families, governments and insurers like Genworth. The cost of staying in a nursing home has increased 4 percent every year over the last five years, the report says. Last year, the median bill was $87,600.
> 
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This is a huge problem.

91,000 a year......good grief !!!


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## Granny (Aug 12, 2016)

No matter how you look at it, the cost is terribly high.  In-home care is preferable ... but the cost is high (my boss attended a required work function and was blown away by the cost in CA as opposed to the cost in TN). Your aging parent can stay in familiar surroundings and receive all kinds of services from caregivers.  Residential care facilities (where residents can either buy or rent their private homes or rooms) offer many things to their residents including moving them from freedom to come and go as the please to higher levels of care as they age and decline.  Very expensive depending on the facility and what is offered.  Last resort is nursing homes, which, unfortunately, is all that can be afforded either by the family or just full Medicare patients.  The care in nursing homes, in my personal opinion, is way substandard.  There's not enough staff, staff is overworked (in TN the minimum patients per CNA is 22 - no way in hell can one CNA give the kind of attention each of those 22 patients needs in an 8 hour shift) ... it's very depressing.  In the year or so that I had private duty for one patient only (family member), I had to yell down the hall for an RN due to patient falls.  We had a fabulous CNA on that hall, worked her ass off ... but, you know, everybody has to take a piss once in awhile or throw a sandwich down their throat on a 1/2 hour dinner break and if she was off the hall nobody was there to cover for her.  And that was BEFORE Obamacare rules and regulations were put into force.  I haven't talked to anyone who's had any work time in a nursing home that has anything good to say about the current state of affairs.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 12, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> Disir said:
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> > NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
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That is simply insane.


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## dblack (Aug 12, 2016)

These health care issues are fraught with emotion and irrational expectations. Most people don't like the idea of wealth determining quality of health care. But I don't know why they believe that we'll be better off with government making the call.


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## Granny (Aug 12, 2016)

It's very concerning.  Right now I'm taking care of a lady in her home who I had taken care of some 4 years ago before being reassigned to someone who was only a mile away from where I live.  I was shocked when I saw her again for the first time ... she has just gone down so far from dementia into Alzheimer's.  Today was a good day ... everything went very smoothly.  Tomorrow?  Who knows?  It's a crap shoot with Alzheimer's - absolutely heartbreaking - and neither she nor I can do a damned thing about it.  Fortunately, she has the money to stay and home and get undivided attention every day.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 12, 2016)

dblack said:


> These health care issues are fraught with emotion and irrational expectations. Most people don't like the idea of wealth determining quality of health care. But I don't know why they believe that we'll be better off with government making the call.



No emotion here.

Wealth will always bring advantages.  Who cares what others have as long as you have what you need.

Agreed....that government is not going to get that done.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 15, 2016)

Disir said:


> NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
> 
> The annual "Cost of Care" report from Genworth Financial tracks the staggering rise in expenses for long-term care, a growing financial burden for families, governments and insurers like Genworth. The cost of staying in a nursing home has increased 4 percent every year over the last five years, the report says. Last year, the median bill was $87,600.
> 
> ...



If you were really curious, there are plenty of sites where you can find assessments of nursing homes vis-a-vis services offered, number of trained staff, important ratings on cleanliness, etc.  But if you're just flapping your wings, you'll learn nothing.

What we are seeing is the last of the generation who did not consider their health to be their most important asset - smokers, people with poor diets, who never exercised, who thought "I'll wait till I get symptoms and the doc will give me a pill."

Upcoming generations are better informed, and Boomers, at least, are taking their health more seriously.

Medical science makes it possible to live longer, but quality of life depends on the individual.


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## Iceweasel (Aug 15, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> What we are seeing is the last of the generation who did not consider their health to be their most important asset - smokers, people with poor diets, who never exercised, who thought "I'll wait till I get symptoms and the doc will give me a pill."
> 
> Upcoming generations are better informed, and Boomers, at least, are taking their health more seriously.
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> Medical science makes it possible to live longer, but quality of life depends on the individual.


Odd comments. Lots of young people are as soft as marshmellows and do little more than dick around with computers, phones and tablets. Fast food places are packed with the younuns. Add drugs and alcohol to the mix. Weight problems, heart disease, diabetis, etc. effect more young than it did in the past.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 15, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Arianrhod said:
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That's why I singled out Boomers.  They're watching their parents waste away in nursing homes or home-bound and dependent on 24/7 nursing care and determined that this isn't going to happen to them.


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## Iceweasel (Aug 15, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


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Except that reality doesn't match your beliefs. Lots of unhealthy soft young folks out there.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 15, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


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Then they'll choke on a Twinkie before they ever need a nursing home.  Problem solved.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 15, 2016)

^Anyway, I've twice mentioned Boomers.  I wouldn't consider them "young people," except maybe to an octogenarian.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 15, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Arianrhod said:
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> > What we are seeing is the last of the generation who did not consider their health to be their most important asset - smokers, people with poor diets, who never exercised, who thought "I'll wait till I get symptoms and the doc will give me a pill."
> ...



On top of that...they've been the first generation to be subjected to whole classes of new medications and food additives.

Who knows what will happen (the film World War Z comes to mind) ?


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## Arianrhod (Aug 15, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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Not accurate.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 15, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


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Watched a high school dance team the other day.  It was like watching 20 versions of the Stay-Puff Marshmallow man....


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## Arianrhod (Aug 15, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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Thus the argument for new infusions of immigrants who'll be willing to take care of your generation when you end up in a nursing home.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 15, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> Disir said:
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> > NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
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Hossfly ... you guys gotta stay with this thread.

It is an important conversation.  I know who posted last because of what shows up on the forum summary (last poster).  

But since I have AirInHead on ignore, I can only go past her posts by going to older ones.

She's a moron and not worth the time to read her stupid ramblings that reference the existence of vaporous "original sources" which are never to be found in her drool.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 15, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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What he's saying, Hossfly, is " I'm pretending to ignore Arianrhod, even though I'm not, and I'm going to keep bumping these threads even though I have nothing to contribute" so if you, Hossfly, are still interested in this topic, your input would be substantive, as opposed to what's currently going on.

Am I mistaken, Hossfly, that you're one of the "elders" whose life might be impacted by the topic of nursing home care, as opposed to Sunny Boy, who's just looking for attention?

I wonder if 90% of those who post here have any concept of what nursing home care actually entails?  All they see is $ signs.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 16, 2016)

Have to question what it will be like when 20% of the population is looking for this kind of service.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 16, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Have to question what it will be like when 20% of the population is looking for this kind of service.



You'd have to explain why you believe they would, all Real World evidence to the contrary.


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## dblack (Aug 16, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Have to question what it will be like when 20% of the population is looking for this kind of service.



Well, if they're not paying for it themselves, it's not a service so much as a 'favor'. Ultimately we have to decide whether we want to take responsibility for, and enjoy control over, our own lives. Or whether we want someone else to be in charge.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 16, 2016)

dblack said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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How do you imagine you'd be "in charge" if you were ill enough to be in a nursing home?


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 16, 2016)

dblack said:


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Good point to consider.

I am not sure what you mean by putting someone else in charge.

Are you talking about a specific or general situation ?


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## dblack (Aug 16, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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Generally, I guess. I'm simply pointing out the tradeoff involved in relying on the state for our needs.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 16, 2016)

dblack said:


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Aw, see, now I was hoping you'd have something more specific to say about how you'd apply your philosophy to nursing homes.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 16, 2016)

dblack said:


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O.K. Thanks.

I would agree....not a very good trade.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 16, 2016)

I wonder who paid for Ayn Rand's stay in the convalescent hospital after her lung-cancer surgery?  Or the 24/7 nursing care she needed so that she could die of heart failure at home?


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 17, 2016)

dblack said:


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The state can help with the associated infrastructure (and some mild forms of  regulation).  

Nothing takes the place of being responsible for your own actions.

As a society, we are not moving in a good direction.


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## dblack (Aug 17, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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It's all based on the conceit that giving government more power over our economic decisions will create more justice.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 18, 2016)

I see the "I read a book once so I have all these theories" crowd is snugged up in their bubble congratulating themselves on their brilliance again.

IMO, a 30-year smoker who develops lung cancer has taken responsibility for his actions...the wrong kind of responsibility.

Perhaps our resident geniuses can explain what responsibility-for-one's-own-actions results in diseases such as Parkinson's and MS.

Bueller?


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 18, 2016)

Disir said:


> NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
> 
> The annual "Cost of Care" report from Genworth Financial tracks the staggering rise in expenses for long-term care, a growing financial burden for families, governments and insurers like Genworth. The cost of staying in a nursing home has increased 4 percent every year over the last five years, the report says. Last year, the median bill was $87,600.
> 
> ...



I wonder who owns these facilities, what income they provide to the ownership and how much is really spent on medical treatments/care?  I also wonder about the education and background of those employed on a daily basis.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 18, 2016)

Wry Catcher said:


> Disir said:
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> > NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
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All very good questions.

I wonder about the model itself.

I know people who run these homes who indicate that most of their residents could be cared for at home by family....if......


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## Arianrhod (Aug 18, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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...if you weren't completely self-absorbed and only interested in yourself?  When you step up to take care of your family members, be sure to let us know.  You can be the model for everyone else.  Until then, you're just another Internet "expert."


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 19, 2016)

Wry Catcher said:


> Disir said:
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> > NEW YORK (AP) -- The steep cost of caring for the elderly continues to climb. The median bill for a private room in a nursing home is now $91,250 a year, according to an industry survey out Thursday.
> ...



I would guess there is a range of quality that is pretty broad.  

My limited experience is that the background of those who work in these facilities is that more that 50% of them (talking aids and orderlies) are imported from Mexico or the Caribbean.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 19, 2016)

Wry Catcher said:


> I wonder who owns these facilities, what income they provide to the ownership and how much is really spent on medical treatments/care?  I also wonder about the education and background of those employed on a daily basis.



Quality of care can be found on numerous websites, and anyone looking for a home for a family member should absolutely check out several in person before making such a big decision.

Finding out who owns the facilities isn't always easy.  Many involve shell companies and it requires some serious digging to find the source.


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 19, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Wry Catcher said:
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> > I wonder who owns these facilities, what income they provide to the ownership and how much is really spent on medical treatments/care?  I also wonder about the education and background of those employed on a daily basis.
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Yep, the smell of human urine is a dead giveaway to runaway.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 19, 2016)

Wry Catcher said:


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I've never been in a home that didn't smell "bad" or "old" as my kids would call it.

There are so many dynamics that are negative....not sure why anyone would do that unless they had too.

I had to put someone in a full time care facility for a couple of months.  As soon as they were able to come home....we got them home.


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## Arianrhod (Aug 19, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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Who's "we"?  Did you personally participate in their care?


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 19, 2016)

HenryBHough said:


> If your elder is in California it is vitally important that you blow their entire wealth on the first six months or so of nursing home care.  Private room for sure.
> 
> That's because of the way state law works.  When the wealth is gone the state is obliged to continue the standard of care for which you were paying.  So if you take the most economical approach so the money will last a little longer then you're condemning your elder to minimal care for the rest of their life.  When by blowing through the bucks as fast as possible you can assure them of a Cadillac care plan to the very end.
> 
> ...



Fascinating......


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## Wry Catcher (Aug 19, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> HenryBHough said:
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> > If your elder is in California it is vitally important that you blow their entire wealth on the first six months or so of nursing home care.  Private room for sure.
> ...



Not that I have any great respect for the legal profession, but before looking for long term care see an attorney and establish a trust.  It's cost may seem to be a lot - since much of the document is boiler plate - but in the long run it will save you time and money.* If the need for LTC is a mental disease associated with age, be sure to do so at the first indication of cognitive dysfunction.*


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## Sun Devil 92 (Aug 19, 2016)

Wry Catcher said:


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Agreed.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Oct 4, 2016)

You won't hear any conversations about this during the campaign.  

It's to sticky. 

We need to worry about e-mails and calling women fat.  That's much more important.


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## Disir (Oct 5, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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Investigators warn of Medicaid fraud and home care abuse

This is an ongoing problem. Whether you like it or not, many of these people cannot and often should not be cared for by family.  What we see repeatedly are people invested in this area that want all of the cash and none of the liability. That is what it is about and it is exactly like how the push has been for keeping the mentally ill at home.


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## Disir (Oct 5, 2016)

There is no round the clock care for those that are forced into using a home health aide but if they did  it would be around about  $500 a day.Plus the homemaker service.  


Some *average costs for long-term care* in the United States (in 2010) were:


$205 per day or *$6,235 per month* for a semi-private room in a *nursing home*
$229 per day or $6,965 per month for a private room in a nursing home
*$3,293 per month* for care in an *assisted living *facility (for a one-bedroom unit)
*$21 per hour for a home health aide*
$19 per hour for homemaker services
*$67 per day for services in an adult day health care center*

The cost of long-term care *depends *on the type and duration of care you need, the provider you use, and where you live. Costs can be affected by certain factors, such as:


*Time of day*. Home health and home care services, provided in two-to-four-hour blocks of time referred to as “visits,” are generally *more expensive in the evening*, *on weekends, and on holidays*
*Extra charges *for services provided beyond the basic room, food and housekeeping charges at facilities, although some may have “all inclusive” fees.
*Variable rates* in some community programs, such as adult day service, are *provided at a* *per-day rate*, *but can be more* based on extra events and activities
Costs of Care - Long-Term Care Information


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## Granny (Oct 5, 2016)

Elder care is a critical situation no matter how you look at it.  I've been doing in-home healthcare services for a good while now and it would be my first choice for myself.  I've had two nursing home "private care for one patient" situations.  I got a real close look at nursing home care.  In the first case, the woman absolutely refused to be a burden on either of her children in spite of their begging her for years to reconsider.  She would have been cared for so beautifully because the whole concept of their upbringing revolved around family and love.  I took care of her in her home prior to her being in the nursing home and knew the family well.  

The nursing homes are sorely understaffed, overworked, and underpaid; institutional food leaves a lot to be desired.  The place smelled, some of the patients were just "dumped" there, others had family members come in on a daily basis.  The state minimum at the time was a minimum of 22 patients per one CNA.  NO WAY could one CNA give the necessary attention to 22 patients in an 8 hour shift.  

My second nursing home private care situation was different in some ways - it was clean, no stink at all, food was edible and patients could choose from two menus at each meal; rooms were spacious and clean; still understaffed but the attitude of staff was one of cooperation and what needed to be done got done. I only stayed on that assignment for a month due to my own health concerns ... like not wanting or needing to be driving at night due to cataracts AND 6 days a week split on two assignments was taking it's toll on me.

Of the multiple in-home assignments I've had ... I've seen both sides of family structure.  I've seen children who were not particularly concerned or involved and I have seen children who were involved, fully informed of their parent's condition, and spared no expense.  The pay is not good ... but in-home caregivers can get so attached to the person they care for and so emotionally involved and when that person finally dies ... burnout happens.

I'll be 73 years old in a couple months and have a clean bill of health from my doctors, good lab results, good everything ... but in the next several months I'm going to have to give serious consideration to myself and my own care.  My energy levels are down but I'm still going to give my little elders 100%; my kids want me to keep me around awhile and want me to consider giving up the hard work and moving in with one of them.  And that's the operative thing ... the concept of  structuring your life around family and love.


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## Arianrhod (Oct 5, 2016)

Alternatively, hospitals are discovering that often very serious medical conditions that affect the elderly can be treated via outpatient care, saving a great deal of money.  Add that to wellness programs that encourage older people to exercise, eat properly, get regular screenings to prevent long-term illness, and it's a win-win.


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## Granny (Oct 5, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Alternatively, hospitals are discovering that often very serious medical conditions that affect the elderly can be treated via outpatient care, saving a great deal of money.  Add that to wellness programs that encourage older people to exercise, eat properly, get regular screenings to prevent long-term illness, and it's a win-win.



That's a part of overall things everybody should do.  But those things are still not going to stop the advance of things like dementia and Alzheimer's, slip and fall injuries that lead to a need for help either in rehab or possibly in-home after rehab.  Every situation is different when it comes to making those long time care decisions.  And it takes dedicated people to fulfill those requirements.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Oct 6, 2016)

Granny said:


> Arianrhod said:
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> > Alternatively, hospitals are discovering that often very serious medical conditions that affect the elderly can be treated via outpatient care, saving a great deal of money.  Add that to wellness programs that encourage older people to exercise, eat properly, get regular screenings to prevent long-term illness, and it's a win-win.
> ...



Well, with our "liberated" society with so many women getting divorced, going to the poor house, and working two jobs to stay afloat....who's going to watch mommy and daddy ?

We are so freaking clever.

Marriage is an economic efficiency and  this is one place it will show up.


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## Arianrhod (Oct 6, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Well, with our "liberated" society with so many women getting divorced, going to the poor house, and working two jobs to stay afloat....who's going to watch mommy and daddy ?
> 
> We are so freaking clever.
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> Marriage is an economic efficiency and  this is one place it will show up.



Is that a bid to return to the medieval system of arranged marriages?  If they're only "economic efficiencies," why not?  Let's make the U.S. a Third World nation!

Or let's stop taking the advice of people who aren't married, take no responsibility for anyone but themselves (and whine about that), and lecture everyone else on how to care for someone with dementia.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Oct 14, 2016)

Disir said:


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I don't think the term "many" covers it.  

However, you seem to have changed POV's in mid stream.

1. There are plenty of things that can be done at home for Granny and Grandpa.  I've seen it time and time again.

2. Look at my last statement.....this an assesment by administrators who run the homes.

3. It is never a one size fit's all.  However, the home isn't the only solution......


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 14, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


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My mom went into a private for care home for disabled seniors, the first night her wedding ring was stolen.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Oct 14, 2016)

Wry Catcher said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



I am sorry to hear that.


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