# The debate is OVER



## P@triot (Mar 20, 2014)

If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:

Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walker&#8217;s $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of Wisconsin&#8217;s projected $977 million surplus to pay for property and income tax cuts.

&#8220;He introduced a bill in January that would send $406 million to technical colleges to reduce their property tax hit and cut income taxes by $98 million by reducing the lowest bracket to 4 percent from 4.4 percent,&#8221; the report states. &#8220;The end result would be a $131 reduction a median home&#8217;s tax bill this December and $46 in annual income tax savings for the average worker.&#8221;


Democrats Are "Living in Mortal Fear" of the Day This Huge Story Is Widely Reported


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

Why sure, It's all the democrats fault.......short on economic history so just cut to the chase and try not to blame it on auto execs.....


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2014)

That's the guy they tried to impeach.


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## P@triot (Mar 20, 2014)

Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.

The debate is _over_. Detroit proved that Dumbocrat policy collapses cities just as it does nations (Cuba, U.S.S.R., Greece, etc.) and Wisconsin proves that free-market conservative capitalism creates wealth and prosperity just as it does with nations (America before the rise of the cancer known as liberalism, Russia after they turned to it to rebuild from the former U.S.S.R., etc.).


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

> Comparing Wisconsin&#8217;s situation to that of the rest of the United States, Limbaugh said most states are struggling.



Yet he doesn't know which ones.....


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.
> 
> The debate is _over_. Detroit proved that Dumbocrat policy collapses cities just as it does nations (Cuba, U.S.S.R., Greece, etc.) and Wisconsin proves that free-market conservative capitalism creates wealth and prosperity just as it does with nations (America before the rise of the cancer known as liberalism, Russia after they turned to it to rebuild from the former U.S.S.R., etc.).



Have you noticed which party is the gov of Michigan???? My oh my, It's a repub..... where is the miracle conservative surge????/


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## P@triot (Mar 20, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> Why sure, It's all the democrats fault.......short on economic history so just cut to the chase and try not to blame it on auto execs.....



You're right [MENTION=30820]Moonglow[/MENTION] - auto execs do shoulder a lot of the blame. After all, they caved to the idiot, greedy, spread-the-wealth unions which crippled their cash flow and proved once again that Dumbocrat policy is bad economic policy.


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## P@triot (Mar 20, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> Rottweiler said:
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> > Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.
> ...



Michigan isn't bankrupt chief - Detroit is. And Detroit was not run by the Michigan state government, it was run by the Dumbocrat city government.

Like I said - go ahead with your lies, cries and excuses! Any more you want to try?


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

No, they kept producing gas guzzler tanks while imports consisted of fuel efficient small vehicles....


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


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Then why talk about Walker that is a gov, versus Detroit, Oh yeah, the pill popper in chief of the RNC is....


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 20, 2014)

Dems were in charge during the good times too.  But I guess those don't count.  Maybe the Republican governor will magically save Detroit by hatin the gays and ranting about Obamacare.


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## P@triot (Mar 20, 2014)

Moonglow said:


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Are you even aware that Walker is Wisconsin while you keep talking about Michigan??? I'm starting to sense you're completely lost here and have no idea who Scott Walker is... 

Why am I talking about Walker vs. Detroit? Because one (Walker) created *prosperity* through conservative policies while the other (Detroit) created *poverty* through liberal policies.


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## P@triot (Mar 20, 2014)

TheOldSchool said:


> Dems were in charge during the good times too.  But I guess those don't count.  Maybe the Republican governor will magically save Detroit by hatin the gays and ranting about Obamacare.



The only time Dems are in charge "during the good times" is when they take over prosperity from conservatives who built the prosperity (such as the case of Clinton who rode the economic tidal wave created by Reagan) - and then they crash it (as Clinton did with our housing market coupled with ignoring Al Qaeda while gutting defense, leading to 9/11 which cost ungodly billions to clean up and trillions more in wars).


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


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The OP intro for some reason has the word Detroit,  for some reason....


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


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So Reagan, that was out of office for over 4 years instigated the dot com bubble....funny thing is he didn't even have a computer....Bush was in charge when the recession hit, just like Hoover was in charge when the Great Depression hit, but you want to blame democrats.......


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## P@triot (Mar 20, 2014)

Moonglow said:


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Yes it does... And?

It has the word "Detroit" because "Detroit" illustrates failed liberal ideology and policy better than anything else in the U.S.

And Wisconsin right now is a tremendous illustration of the success of conservative free-market capitalism.

While Detroit is a shit-hole of poverty and misery, Wisconsin has lowered their unemployment 3%, erased their ($6 billion?) debt, created a nearly $1 billion surplus, and are now cutting taxes to put even more money in the pockets of the people there - and all of it was achieved with conservative policy.


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 20, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


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Yes Iraq and Afghanistan were Clinton's fault.  Not Bush or Reagan's.  Not even a little bit.


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## birddog (Mar 20, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


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You are right on!  Only a moron would think otherwise!


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## deltex1 (Mar 20, 2014)

I have it Rottweiler 10, LIBTARDS 0.


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## P@triot (Mar 21, 2014)

Conservatives nationwide need to highlight the Wisconsin results and the Detroit results in every debate, every campaign, every article, every paper, every interview, and every speech. It needs to be beaten beyond a dead horse.

It's not only a blueprint as Rush said, but it also illustrates the failed ideology of the Dumbocrats and the prosperity that real conservative policy (not liberal RINO policy) produces. The liberals will literally have no response to this - so they will resort to their two desperate tactics of crying "racism" and lying. And that's when you know the debate is over.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 21, 2014)

Democrats cant run a whorehouse and make money at it.  If Democrats ran the Sahara desert in 5 years we'd have a shortage of sand.
The simple fact is, Democrats do not know how business works, how the economy works, what creates jobs and prosperity.  Look at Obama.  Five years and almost every month some new job initiative and fewer people are working now than when he took office.  Because he doesnt know how and why jobs arecreated.  Illinois is another great example. They ramped up taxes on "the rich" and "big corporations."  And then had to hand out special exemptions to,e.g. Caterpillar to keep them from moving to Indiana.  And the state budget is one of the worst in the country.
Republicans like Walker know that creating special zones, special programs, special entitlements is no way to create general prosperity.  That's why they succeed while Democrats fail.


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## P@triot (Mar 21, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Democrats cant run a whorehouse and make money at it.  If Democrats ran the Sahara desert in 5 years we'd have a shortage of sand.
> The simple fact is, Democrats do not know how business works, how the economy works, what creates jobs and prosperity.  Look at Obama.  Five years and almost every month some new job initiative and fewer people are working now than when he took office.  Because he doesnt know how and why jobs arecreated.  Illinois is another great example. They ramped up taxes on "the rich" and "big corporations."  And then had to hand out special exemptions to,e.g. Caterpillar to keep them from moving to Indiana.  And the state budget is one of the worst in the country.
> Republicans like Walker know that creating special zones, special programs, special entitlements is no way to create general prosperity.  That's why they succeed while Democrats fail.



A third piece of monumental evidence that Dumbocrat policy is a failed ideology is right here and further illustrates your point on taxes in Illinois:

High Tax States Are Losing Taxpayers - US News


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## Bfgrn (Mar 21, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> 
> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walkers $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of Wisconsins projected $977 million surplus to pay for property and income tax cuts.
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)


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## gipper (Mar 21, 2014)

How is it that progressive policies promoted mostly by Democrat politicians, which have proven time and again to cause terrible economic problems, is a matter of debate?  

Only in a nation infected with a terrible dread disease...sometimes referred to as Liberalism.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 21, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
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That's funny right there.
You quote Moynihan on facts and opinions and then proceed to produce two opinions to counter his fact.
Do you actually understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?


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## boilermaker55 (Mar 21, 2014)

Your thought and that is all it happens to be.




Rottweiler said:


> If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> 
> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walkers $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of Wisconsins projected $977 million surplus to pay for property and income tax cuts.
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## Freewill (Mar 21, 2014)

Moonglow said:


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Seems like someone forgot it was Clinton's recession.  Handled by GWB without the drama of Obama and the disaster that ensued.


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## FJO (Mar 21, 2014)

The only debate that is over as far as liberals are concerned is that global warming/climate change is caused by humans.

And, of course, only conservative humans.


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## P@triot (Mar 21, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
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> > If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
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And sadly the left continues to make up their own facts. $7 trillion added to the debt during the Obama reign of terror. $7 *trillion*. More than Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II _combined_ in a total of 5 terms.

You can't "tax cut" your way to a deficit. You can only *spend* your way to a deficit. Period. If the federal government spent $0.00 per year, there would be no debt. It's spending that creates debt - no matter how desperately you greedy government gravy-train liberals want to convince people otherwise.


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## P@triot (Mar 21, 2014)

boilermaker55 said:


> Your thought and that is all it happens to be.
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The *facts* say otherwise chief!


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 21, 2014)

TheOldSchool said:


> Dems were in charge during the good times too.  But I guess those don't count.  Maybe the Republican governor will magically save Detroit by hatin the gays and ranting about Obamacare.



What no "Bush's Fault!"?


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## Brain357 (Mar 21, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


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And they made a lot of crappy cars consumers didn't want.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 21, 2014)

Brain357 said:


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So they should have gone out of business, right?  Instead Obama rescued them and they continue to make crappy cars, like the Volt, that no one wants.
See how that works?


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## Brain357 (Mar 21, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


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The execs ran it into the ground and it should have gone under.


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## Pogo (Mar 21, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> 
> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday


 <snip>

Political spectra don't play in city-level politics, Brainiac.  Mayors are city managers.  Whether they have a D, an R or no letter at all after their name is irrelevant.  They don't  politically philosophize.  They call out the snow plows and hand over keys to the city.

Duh.


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## buckeye45_73 (Mar 21, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> Why sure, It's all the democrats fault.......short on economic history so just cut to the chase and try not to blame it on auto execs.....


 
 what do auto execs have to do with Detroit's failure? Why do you always blame businesses for a government's failure?


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## MaxGrit (Mar 21, 2014)

Brain357 said:


> And they made a lot of crappy cars consumers didn't want.



UAW forced US car companies labor costs very high vs. import. UAW prevented cost-saving by blocking use of innovative high-efficiency technologies. Left with few options to control costs, execs switched cars designs from expensive quality parts to cheap inferior parts. US cars gets worse and worse. People began to buy Japanese cars instead of US cars.

UAW made it impossible for US companies to compete with Japanese manufacturers.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 21, 2014)

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So you support thousands of people losing high paying manufacturing jobs.  We got it.


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## Pogo (Mar 21, 2014)

MaxGrit said:


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Heh - not on this planet Gummo.  Japanese cars started selling because the Japanese, unlike Detroit, offered sensible-sized cars while Detroit was obtusely fixated on chrome mountain tuna boats on wheels.  After the fuel escapades of the 1970s the buying public was fed up with the gas guzzling bullshit.

Matter of fact when Saturn started up in the late '80s the whole idea was they were going to make cars in the US that felt like and looked like and drove like the more practical designs already coming out of Japan and Europe.  That was its theme. 

Put the blame where it belongs -- designers obsessed with profit over practicality.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 21, 2014)

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You certainly CAN tax cut your way to deficits. Are you THAT fucking retarded? Reagan proved it. 

Democrats PAY for what they spend through tax revenue. It is called 'tax and spend'. 

There was no debt to speak of before Reagan. Kennedy and Johnson faced budget surpluses'. 

Ronald Reagan, the actor, switched the federal government from what he critically called, a &#8220;tax and spend&#8221; policy, to a &#8220;borrow and spend&#8221; policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion! 

Please explain how 'borrow and spend' is a conservative tenet...PLEASE. I want to hear it pea brain. Tell us how making our children and grand children pay is fiscal conservatism.

And stick the blame Obama up your greasy ass.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 21, 2014)

MaxGrit said:


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Right wing bullshit.

If you want to look at what puts US car makers at a huge disadvantage, I will spell it for you:

HEALTH CARE COSTS... Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd.

Every other industrialized nation has national health care, except for America, which is infested with right wing cancer.


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## P@triot (Mar 21, 2014)

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Thank you for proving me right while contradict yourself you mental midget! 

Key word with Reagan: *spend*. You're literally so stupid that you said "Regan proved it" and then immediately followed that up with the word *SPEND*.

You cannot tax cut your way to debt junior. I've already proved this above, then you proved it again, but I'll say it one more time because you're slow:

If the federal government spent $0.00 per year, there would be no debt. It's spending that creates debt - no matter how desperately you greedy government gravy-train liberals want to convince people otherwise. It is literally impossible to tax cut your way to debt. Even if you took all taxes down to 0% - so long as you didn't spend one penny, you would _still_ have no debt (it's truly remarkable that you are this stupid, I need to explain to you that debt comes from *spending* more than you bring in).



Bfgrn said:


> Please explain how 'borrow and spend' is a conservative tenet...PLEASE. I want to hear it pea brain. Tell us how making our children and grand children pay is fiscal conservatism.



It's *not* - it's the hallmark of idiot liberalism. And it'a one of the many glaring examples of how Bush was a liberal and what a bunch of blind partisan hacks you people are (Bush is a liberal wet-dream if he runs for office with a little "d" behind his name).

Unfortunately for both Reagan and GWB - they had to follow immature idealistic Dumbocrats who all but eliminated defense in favor of a "roll over and yield to your enemy so they will like you" appeasement strategy (which - like all things Dumbocrat - failed miserably). And it cost a TON of money by the only responsible adults in the room (Republicans) to build the military back up to where it should be.



Bfgrn said:


> And stick the blame Obama up your greasy ass.



Whoooo.... _someone_ is really upset about having to face the facts. Since you can't dispute that Obama has added $7 trillion to the national debt (more in one term than the previous 3 GOP presidents combined added in 5 terms) all you can do is act like the uneducated, vulgar, trailer-dweller that you are!


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## RKMBrown (Mar 21, 2014)

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Retard.


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## Pogo (Mar 21, 2014)

What the fuck does this goofy-ass thread have to do with Media?


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## P@triot (Mar 21, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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Which is why _every_ other "industrialized nation" has vastly inferior healthcare, _stupid_. We have the best healthcare in the world and it's not even close.

But hey, you Dumbocrats have always been about lowering quality (cause you're all fuck'n lazy beyond belief), lowering standards, and lowering the U.S. to the rest of the world.

Which begs the question - why don't you pieces of shit get the fuck out of the U.S. and to experience you're ignorant socialism first hand in Cuba, Greece, or China? Answer: because  [MENTION=19018]Bfgrn[/MENTION] and his fellow Dumbocrats know they won't have conservatives to mooch off of anymore if they leave....


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## Pogo (Mar 21, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion.





_Wisconsin _has a budget surplus of a _trillion_.  After being six BILLION in debt.

Wisconsin.

In other news you can now get a Domino's Pizza for six hundred thousand and 99 cents.


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## Pogo (Mar 21, 2014)

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That threw me too.  Obviously Buttsoiler skipped both math_* and *_geography classes.  But he can catch up tomorrow.

What a


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## edthecynic (Mar 21, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walker&#8217;s $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of *Wisconsin&#8217;s projected $977 million surplus* to pay for property and income tax cuts.


What your MessiahRushie failed to cite is Scotty Twat hit up Obama, and thus all the taxpayers outside of Wisconsin, for $450 million this Winter!!!!! So in essence WE are paying for Walkers tax refund and getting nothing for it!!!

Obama, Walker talk propane shortage | FOX 11 Online | WLUK-TV

Governor Scott Walker asked President Obama for help and the governor  told FOX 11 the president came through. Walker told us he spoke with  one of Obama&#8217;s advisors Thursday morning. &#8220;We went through the list I sent to the president and checked off all  the things I&#8217;d asked for assistance on. They&#8217;re acting on it, our  partners are, so we&#8217;re glad to see that,&#8221; Walker explained.
 Walker thanked the president in person when Obama landed in Milwaukee about an hour after that phone call.
 &#8220;The federal government&#8217;s gonna help us out with rail service and some other federal restrictions,&#8221; Walker said.
*Walker told us the Obama administration also set aside $450 million to go to state&#8217;s low income home energy assistance programs.*


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## P@triot (Mar 21, 2014)

edthecynic said:


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What is your point here? 

Is this miniscule $450 million what turned around the ($6 billion?) debt into a nearly $1 billion surplus? No - no, the math doesn't add up their chief.

Well did this miniscule $450 million what turned around the 9% unemoloyment to 6% unemployment? No - no, the math doesn't add up their either chief.

If I had to _guess_ (and unlike you lying Dumbocrats - I am admitting this is a guess) - I would say that like most real conservatives, Scott Walker was tired of seeing Obama unconstitutionally steal revenue from his state (in the form of taxes) and illegally redistribute to other states (in the form of pork). So he saw an opportunity to get some of that money back where it belongs and he cashed in on it. I know for a fact that Ron Paul has been doing that for decades.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 21, 2014)

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To which party does the governor of Michigan belong?

If you are going to laud Walker, you have to laud the Michigan governor, but . . . there is Detroit.

Rott, you are guilty of false equivalency.

Moonglow caught you.

Now fess you have no idea about what you are talking and move on down the line.


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## edthecynic (Mar 21, 2014)

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Another Right-wing useful idiot who doesn't know the difference between DEBT and DEFICIT or REAL and PROJECTED.

You should know by now never to believe any number from a Republican and anything from your MessiahRushie!!!!!

Anybody want to look at Wisconsin's debt? ... Bueller? ... Bueller? « Watchdog.org

After fiscal year 2013,* the states real deficit,* based on *Generally Accepted Accounting Principles*,* is $1.7 billion.* Thats down from the $2.9 billion when *Gov. Scott Walker*  took office and is the lowest since 2003. The better-than-expected  state revenue, some $760 million that materialized at the end of the  past fiscal year, has played a big part in lowering that debt load.
 But theres more  so much more.
 A newly released report by State Budget Solutions, a conservative public-policy organization, estimates *the Badger States total debt is north of $45 billion.* SBS fourth annual State Debt Study pegs total state debt nationally at $5.1 trillion, or roughly $16,178 per capita.
 The groups *debt estimates for Wisconsin are nearly three times higher than the $15.98 billion in total debt* noted in the state Comprehensive Annual Financial Report. That has everything to do with how the two reports measure public-pension debt.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 22, 2014)

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Hey pea brain, YOU spew about taking all taxes down to 0%, THEN you spew about building the military back up to where it should be...hey shit for brains, you CAN'T have the biggest military in the world, AND spend $0.00 per year. Only a RETARD would even utter such a childish premise.

Reagan and Bush were NOT liberals you MORON. They are BORROW and spend right wing authoritarians.

Obama and liberals PAY for what they spend.

January 28, 2010, 04:58 pm
Senate passes pay-go rule on party-line vote

The Senate voted along party lines on Thursday to adopt statutory pay-go rules in a party-lines vote.

60 Democratic senators voted to adopt the pay-go measure (short for "pay-as-you-go"), which would require that new spending measures be offset in the budget by other funds, typically raised through tax increases or cuts to spending.

Republicans have said that by installing the rule, pay-go would become an excuse for tax hikes, since spending cuts are frequently unpopular.

All Democrats voted for the measure, and all 40 Republicans voted against it. The House adopted such a rule in a 265-166 vote last July.

President Barack Obama urged senators to move forward with the new rule in his State of the Union address on Wednesday night.

"When the vote comes tomorrow, the Senate should restore the pay-as-you-go law that was a big reason for why we had record surpluses in the 1990s," he said.

Obama's remarks came within the context of a broader effort toward deficit reduction, in addition to a three-year freeze on non-defense discretionary spending, and a commission on deficit reduction established by executive order.

Read more: Senate passes pay-go rule on party-line vote | TheHill
Follow us: [MENTION=27326]The[/MENTION]hill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook


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## Moonglow (Mar 22, 2014)

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Congrats, but Wisconsin did not have a dying auto industry to deal with. But don't let me interfere with your Rush nose in azz fest.


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## Moonglow (Mar 22, 2014)

Cheney told us that deficits don't matter.......


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## Bfgrn (Mar 22, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.
> 
> The debate is _over_. Detroit proved that Dumbocrat policy collapses cities just as it does nations (Cuba, U.S.S.R., Greece, etc.) and Wisconsin proves that free-market conservative capitalism creates wealth and prosperity just as it does with nations (America before the rise of the cancer known as liberalism, Russia after they turned to it to rebuild from the former U.S.S.R., etc.).



OK, voodoo economic retard. Let's get to the REAL truth...

Deficit turned surplus*

In January 2014, the nonpartisan Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau projected the state would have a $1 billion surplus at the end of the two-year budget period covering July 2013 to July 2015 -- *almost all of it because tax collections are rising faster than expected.* That helped back up a frequent Walker boast that he has turned state finances around.

But there is arguably an asterisk to the boast.

Also in January 2014, the Wisconsin Democratic Party stated: *"The national economic recovery has led to higher than expected tax revenues and projected budget surpluses in nearly every state in the nation, including Wisconsin."

We rated the statement True.* State budget watchers confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.


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## Moonglow (Mar 22, 2014)

> We rated the statement True. State budget watchers confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.



But, but Rush says that the economy has tanked and Oblama is leading us down to where we will never recover...He says he bases this on the fact that he has a listening audience worth several million a year in income and he has to be able to keep the dough rollin' in, even if it takes a little lie to keep the boat floating while he laughs at the gullible people all the way to the bank.


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## Moonglow (Mar 22, 2014)

RIP thread....


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## Bfgrn (Mar 22, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> > We rated the statement True. State budget watchers confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.
> 
> 
> 
> But, but Rush says that the economy has tanked and Oblama is leading us down to where we will never recover...He says he bases this on the fact that he has a listening audience worth several million a year in income and he has to be able to keep the dough rollin' in, even if it takes a little lie to keep the boat floating while he laughs at the gullible people all the way to the bank.



Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer. Rush Limbaugh, his whole thing is entertainment. Yes it's incendiary, yes it's ugly.
Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 22, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Do you know the difference between cities and states?

We have 57 states and many more cities.

Detroit is one poorly run Democrat stronghold city within the STATE of Michigan.  Not all cities in Michigan are failing like Democrat stronghold of Detroit


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## Mojo2 (Mar 22, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.
> 
> The debate is _over_. Detroit proved that Dumbocrat policy collapses cities just as it does nations (Cuba, U.S.S.R., Greece, etc.) and Wisconsin proves that free-market conservative capitalism creates wealth and prosperity just as it does with nations (America before the rise of the cancer known as liberalism, Russia after they turned to it to rebuild from the former U.S.S.R., etc.).



Yeppers!



> The debate is _over_. Detroit proved that Dumbocrat policy collapses cities just as it does nations






> IRVING KRISTOL: If you had asked any liberal in 1960, we are going to pass these laws, these laws, these laws, and these laws, mentioning all the laws that in fact were passed in the 1960s and 70s, would you say crime will go up, drug addiction will go up, illegitimacy will go up, or will they get down?
> 
> Obviously, everyone would have said, they will get down. And everyone would have been wrong.
> 
> Now, thats not something that the liberals have been able to face up to. Theyve had their reforms, and they have led to consequences that they did not expect and they dont know what to do about.



Silt 3.0: Baby It's Cold Outside (first half)

That is just what liberals and Progressives do. They can't help themselves and they can't change.


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## Mojo2 (Mar 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > > We rated the statement True. State budget watchers confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.
> ...



Michael Steele was so effective as (now, former) Republican National Committee Chairman, they replaced him with that brilliant, go-getter, Reince Priebus.


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## P@triot (Mar 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Hey pea brain, YOU spew about taking all taxes down to 0%, THEN you spew about building the military back up to where it should be...hey shit for brains, you CAN'T have the biggest military in the world, AND spend $0.00 per year. Only a RETARD would even utter such a childish premise.



It's called reading comprehension, _stupid_, and clearly you lack it. At no time did I advocate taking taxes down to 0%. I simply stated that even *if* you did do that, you still could not accumulate debt unless you *spent*.

I can see now why you're a Dumbocrat. You're completely incapable of following along. You're literally confused by everything. I have not deleted one post from this thread. Everything I have posted is still there for everyone to read. Maybe you can have a parent go back and read it to you - and then explain it to you?



Bfgrn said:


> Reagan and Bush were NOT liberals you MORON. They are BORROW and spend right wing authoritarians.



Once again Bfgrn illustrates his lack of reading comprehension. At no time did I say that Reagan was a liberal. In fact, I consider Reagan to be the greatest *conservative* president of all time. And to call Reagan an "authoritarian" is fall down hilarious considering you're the same dumb-ass who has cried over and over and over about Regan "de-regulating". If you are deregulating ass-wipe, then you are voluntarily giving up government centralized control and giving more _freedom_ to people. You truly are a _special_ kind of stupid.

I said _Bush_ was a liberal. He spent recklessly (libtard), he grew government (libtard), he pissed on the Constitution (libtard), he bailed out private industry in the free market (libtard).

Now lets compare that with Obama who you literally worship and fantasize about fellating. He spends recklessly (check), he has grown government (check), he has pissed on the Constitution (check), he bailed out private industry in the free market (check).

Uh-oh..._someone_ has just been exposed for being a blind, ignorant, partisan hack 



Bfgrn said:


> Obama and liberals PAY for what they spend.



Bwhahahahahah!!!! $7 trillion in deficit spending under Obama and the Dumbocrats you ignorant fuck'n child. The CBO has confirmed that Obamacare alone will add $2 trillion to the national debt (pushing Obama's total to a guaranteed total of over $9 trillion in deficit spending during from his presidency). It took every president in U.S. history over 230 years to accumulate $10 trillion in debt and Obama will nearly match that himself.

Furthermore, Obama has demanded (and received) that the federal debt ceiling be raised every year that he has been in office. Now that's odd. Why would he need to raise the debt ceiling if he and the Dumbocrats are adhering to "pay as you go"? How does it feel to have your extraordinary ignorance exposed in front of the _world_?


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## P@triot (Mar 22, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Says the simpleton who claims over and over that Bill Clinton had a "surplus" 

Directly from the article that you posted junior: *"The better-than-expected state revenue, some $760 million that materialized at the end of the past fiscal year"*

Uh-oh! Uh-oh! Looks like _someone_ else has a reading comprehension problem. Once again proving why Dumbocrats are Dumbocrats (lazy, greedy, and _stupid_). See that world _materialized_ junior? That means they actually, tangibly have the nearly $1 billion in surplus. And again, that is directly from your article.

Game. Set. Match.


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## edthecynic (Mar 22, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


NO, that means they have a* $1.7 billion DEFICIT* rather than a $2.46 billion DEFICIT because tax revenue is up thanks to Obama saving the economy.


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## P@triot (Mar 22, 2014)

Dumbocrats are so predictable - they are spewing every lie, preventing every statement, and attempting to skew every fact out of sheer desperation.

They _know_ that that Detroit has indisputably proven that Dumbocrat spread-the-wealth ideology is a failed ideology, and that Wisconsin has indisputably proven that conservative free-market capitalism creates prosperity.

And they know that as soon as people realize it, their days of their greedy government gravy train are _over_. And man are they panicked about that!


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## P@triot (Mar 22, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



You're the only asshole here chief - you just got bent over by your own link! 

Obama "saving the economy"?!? Bwahahahahahah!!! You mean the economy that is so atrocious, people have dropped out of the work force? You mean the economy that people elected conservatives in record numbers in the 2010 midterms to save from collapse? You mean the economy that despite Obama incompetence, Republican governors, mayors, and state legislators have managed to keep afloat by implementing the policies that stimulate job growth? Like what Scott Walker did in Wisconsin? You mean _that_ economy?


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## edthecynic (Mar 22, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


So you admit Walker added $1.7 billion to his state's debt in 2013, which is $16 billion to $45 billion, up from the $6 billion in debt you said he started with, depending on how you measure public pension debt.


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## natstew (Mar 22, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...



Moonie, you are one stupid motherfucker!


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## P@triot (Mar 22, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



So you finally admit that Obama has failed miserably? It's about damn time!


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## Brain357 (Mar 22, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> 
> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walkers $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of Wisconsins projected $977 million surplus to pay for property and income tax cuts.
> 
> ...



Good thing Wisconsin doesn't have a military.  Otherwise he would blow all the money on the military and wars.  Republicans should listen to Ron Paul.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 22, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Hey pea brain, YOU spew about taking all taxes down to 0%, THEN you spew about building the military back up to where it should be...hey shit for brains, you CAN'T have the biggest military in the world, AND spend $0.00 per year. Only a RETARD would even utter such a childish premise.
> ...





			
				Rottweiler said:
			
		

> I consider Reagan to be the greatest *conservative* president of all time.



Hey shit for brains...*if* Obama is the *BIG* spender, and Reagan was the greatest *conservative* president of all time, then WHY has Obama only raised the debt ceiling 2 times and your man-crush Reagan raised it 18 FUCKING TIMES?

You are getting completely hammered on this thread you pea brain.

Some MORE bad news for you retard...










"The excuse cannot be used that Congress massively increased Reagan's budget proposals. On the contrary, there was never much difference between Reagan's and Congress's budgets, and despite propaganda to the contrary, Reagan never proposed a cut in the total budget."
Murray N. Rothbard - former Dean of the Austrian School, an economist, economic historian, and libertarian political philosopher







"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)

Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer


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## RKMBrown (Mar 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



retard


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 22, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



You and I do, Frank, yes.  You and I also understand the logic of equivalency and that Rott has screwed up .  .  . again.


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## Brain357 (Mar 22, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



He seems to do that again and again and again...


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## Brain357 (Mar 22, 2014)

MaxGrit said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > And they made a lot of crappy cars consumers didn't want.
> ...



Did UAW also make the cars ugly and not what consumers wanted?  The execs were slow to make the type of cars consumers wanted.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 22, 2014)

Why, yes . . . yes, he does.  Continually.


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## Brain357 (Mar 22, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



Well one would hope the high paying execs who were doing a crappy job would have been canned and replaced before they went out of business.  They of course have a special deal in this country so who knows if that would happen.  But yes I don't support government bailouts.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 22, 2014)

Brain357 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



The Rabbi supported the bail out of the auto industry.


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## MaxGrit (Mar 22, 2014)

Pogo said:


> MaxGrit said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



*Think please. If you are obsessed with profit, what would you do?*



Bfgrn said:


> If you want to look at what puts US car makers at a huge disadvantage, I will spell it for you:
> 
> HEALTH CARE COSTS... Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd.
> 
> Every other industrialized nation has national health care, except for America, which is infested with right wing cancer.



Health care, pensions, etc. are labor costs. UAW drive up labor costs. Unions started out for good reasons, but most became centralized where the union bosses stop caring about their workers. Money from unions goes to politicians for protectionist laws. It's a good crony capitalism racket which mostly benefit the union bosses.

Forced membership into huge centralized unions, removing power from the individual worker and placing it into the hand of union bosses, who only care about themselves, is good for the common worker?


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## MaxGrit (Mar 22, 2014)

A transparent health care system that is sensible would work to contain  costs a lot better than more government regulation. Lots of reforms are  needed. It will be unpleasant, but necessary if you want to fix health  care before it crashes and burn, taking the whole country and the  economy with it.

Possible fixes: 

Upfront billing with  flat rate for procedures. EMTALA fix so that the ED wouldn't have to  accept whoever shows up; true emergencies only. Tort reform. Third party  provider reform. End-of-life issues reform. Pharmaceutical reform.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 22, 2014)

MaxGrit said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > MaxGrit said:
> ...



You have all the right wing union bashing down pat. Parrots are good at mimicking.

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this countrythey are America." 
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

"With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed"
Clarence Darrow


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## The Rabbi (Mar 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> MaxGrit said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



You're what's called "factually challenged" aren't you?


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## P@triot (Mar 22, 2014)

MaxGrit said:


> A transparent health care system that is sensible would work to contain  costs a lot better than more government regulation. Lots of reforms are  needed. It will be unpleasant, but necessary if you want to fix health  care before it crashes and burn, taking the whole country and the  economy with it.
> 
> Possible fixes:
> 
> Upfront billing with flat rate for procedures. EMTALA fix so that the ED wouldn't have to  accept whoever shows up; true emergencies only. Tort reform. Third party provider reform. End-of-life issues reform. Pharmaceutical reform.



Reform is liberal code-word for "government control".

You're second point (EMTALA) is why your first point (flat rate) can't occur:

You can't have "upfront billing with flat rate for procedures" because sadly a Dumbocrat-controlled Congress (lead by Tip O'Neill) created a bill that said people must receive medical care regardless of their ability to pay for it. This means that my procedure must cost 3x's what it should - to cover the cost of the 2 other parasites who received free healthcare. That means I need health insurance. And to prevent them from going bankrupt, insurance companies need to make deals with healthcare systems. Which means different prices based on the deals that were made.

Everything you stated (other than maybe tort reform) is simply sound bites for politicians to give the masses hard-on's but is complete fantasy land.

The _only_ solution America needs is to restore Constitutional government. Once we get the federal government the fuck out of the healthcare business (where they don't belong and where they have zero legal authority), we resolve every problem we have. Costs will go down. Access will increase. And outcomes will improve.


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## P@triot (Mar 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



I'm sorry - do you believe that because I think Reagan was the best that means he was literally flawless? The first perfect person in world history who never made a bad decision? This shows how immature and idiotic you are because that is how you actually think.

Why did Reagan need to raise the debt ceiling? Because Jimmy Carter gutted defense and Reagan had to rebuild our military to keep assholes like you free and complaining. But you know what Reagan did fuck on big time? His despicable amnesty. He wasn't perfect. But he was a fuck-load better than the miserable failure known as marxist Obama.

Junior, I have completely _humiliated_ you with facts. Obama has added $7 trillion to the debt. That is more than all presidents in U.S. history _combined_ in their first term. And it's 70% of all presidents in U.S. history _combined_ in *all* of their terms.

And what's fall down hilarious is that you were ignorant enough to say "the Dumbocrats pay for their spending" and followed that up by citing the laughable "pay as you go". Yet I pointed out that if that were true, why did Obama need and demand that the debt ceiling be raised TWICE?!? Why is there debt if the Dumbocrats "pay for their spending"? And you still haven't answered because you know it proves you're an ignorant, blind, partisan fucking HACK!

Game over junior!


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## edthecynic (Mar 22, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> $7 trillion in deficit spending under Obama ...


Pure BULLSHIT!

Reagan, Bush I and Bush II ran up, including interest, $13 trillion in the GOP National Debt, and that is not counting the carryover from Bush's 2 wars.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



You only have one problem...FACTS.







The Carter years...


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## The Rabbi (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


Another idiot who can't read a graph.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



You REALLY have a cognitive issue when it comes to something as simple as a graph. The graph is clear...CRYSTAL. Defense spending INCREASED during the Carter years, not decreased. You are an idiot.



			
				The Rabbi said:
			
		

> "People are not on unemployment for 2 years because there are no jobs.  There are no jobs because people are on unemployment for 2 years."


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > $7 trillion in deficit spending under Obama ...
> ...



This chart is not from some 'leftist' website...











Im a big fan of criticizing Obamas profligacy, but it is inaccurate and/or dishonest to blame him for Bushs mistakes. At the risk of repeating my earlier post, the 2009 fiscal year began on October 1, 2008, and the vast majority of the spending for that year was the result of Bush Administration policies. Yes, Obama did add to the waste with the so-called stimulus, the omnibus appropriation, the CHIP bill, and the cash-for-clunkers nonsense, but as the chart illustrates, these boondoggles only amounted to just a tiny percentage of the FY2009 total  about $140 billion out of a $3.5 trillion budget.

Defending Obama...Again | Cato @ Liberty


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

MORE problems for right wing turds...

Military R&D plummeted, NOT under Carter...under Nixon


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## RKMBrown (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Lying piece of shit.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



You have been reduced to a heaping pile of smoking turds...ROFLMAO!!!


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## The Rabbi (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



OK, let me ask you: What do you thnk your chart shows?  Be specific here.


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## FJO (Mar 23, 2014)

TheOldSchool said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...



At least Ronald Reagan did not call those "gentlemen" endearing names, such as "Uncle Joe", as the cripple FDR adoringly called the second biggest and bloodiest butcher in human history, Joseph Stalin.

And in addition, Ronald Reagan's politics and policies led to the end of the decades old Cold War that the cripple FDR started.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



The blue shows THIS:

US military (national defense) outlays, 1940-95






Note: (1) billions of dollars; fiscal year

James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.
Presidential term: January 20, 1977  January 20, 1981


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## percysunshine (Mar 23, 2014)

Detroit?

"The Model Cities Program was a key component of President Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society and War on Poverty. Begun in 1966, it operated five-year long experiments in 150 cities to develop new antipoverty programs and alternative forms of municipal government."

Model Cities Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Sounds like EPCOT;

The Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow (EPCOT) was a concept developed by Walt Disney near the end of his lifetime. This planned city was his intended purpose for the property purchased near Orlando, Florida, that eventually became the Walt Disney World Resort....no one living in EPCOT would own their own land or home, thereby having no municipal voting rights (bond issues, etc.). Walt Disney wanted to exercise this control only to be able to change technology in the homes easily.

According to the film, all adults living in EPCOT would be employed, thereby preventing the formation of slums and ghettos.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Prototype_Community_of_Tomorrow_(concept)




So ... centralized urban planning results in either a disaster, like Detroit, or a fantasy theme park like EPCOT.

How utterly un-progressive.

.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

FJO said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Bullshit.

Eisenhower planned to end the cold war in 1960, but the CIA sabotaged that plan when they sent up a U-2 to be shot down over Soviet air space.

READ Eisenhower's farewell address.

Kennedy and Khrushchev would have ended the cold war, but the CIA murdered Kennedy.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Recall that inflation was high in those years, so efffectivel it was less money spent.
Note that your own table shows declines as a percentage of GDP.
/fail


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



The decline as % gdp began in the 1950's you ignorant moron.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



It's Eisenhower's fault!  A new talking point on the Left!
You really are desperate and stupid, aren't you?


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## FJO (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> FJO said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...



And if my auntie had a dick, she would be my uncle.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

FJO said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > FJO said:
> ...



You are not smart enough to know the difference.

Educate yourself...


THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY
by L. Fletcher Prouty

Col. Prouty spent 9 of his 23 year military career in the Pentagon (1955-1964): 2 years with the Secretary of Defense, 2 years with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and 5 years with Headquarters, U.S. Air Force. In 1955 he was appointed the first "Focal Point" officer between the CIA and the Air Force for Clandestine Operations per National Security Council Directive 5412. He was Briefing Officer for the Secretary of Defense (1960-1961), and for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

At times he would be called to meet with Allen Dulles and John Foster Dulles at their home on highly classified business. He was assigned to attend MKULTRA meetings. In this capacity Col. Prouty would be at the nerve center of the Military-Industrial Complex at a time unequalled in American History.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 23, 2014)

*The debate is OVER* as Rott and his buddies have been pwnd again.


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



The "Carter Years" ends starting at 1980 buffoon. Incidentally, so does the townward trend... 

As Rabbi said, another idiot who can't read a graph....


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> FJO said:
> 
> 
> > TheOldSchool said:
> ...



That one word illustrates the difference between Republicans and Dumbocrats. Bf here is excited about what someone "planned" to do (this why Dumbocrats always deliver failure - because they never actually do anything - they only "plan" to do it).

Meanwhile, Ronald Reagan actually defeated the Soviets in the Cold War. He didn't "plan" on doing it, he actually _did_ it.

Now provide us more comedy relief you blind partisan hack. The more you talk, the more you defeat yourself. Like when you provide a graph showing the military on a downward trend during the Carter years and then immediately changing course starting at 1980 - the year Reagan took command.

Dance monkey, dance!


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > $7 trillion in deficit spending under Obama ...
> ...



The interest is already factored in your dumb-fuck. When they sell a government bond, they *know* what that will cost at the time of maturity. When they borrow from China, they *know* the interest and total debt. There is no "surprise" debt that piles on to a future present.

Obama has added $7 trillion to debt because he's a typical spread-the-wealth to buy power Dumbocrat marxist idiot. You know damn well that asshole has added $7 trillion to the debt. The fact that you feel the need to lie about it says it all junior.....


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Funny thing is, junior here had never even heard of the Omnibus bill and had completely forgotten about the cash-for-clunkers until I pointed these out (and more) in another thread because he wanted to know what Obama was spending all of this money on.

Now that I brought them to his attention with links that prevents him from denying it, he's instead trying to minimize how much they cost. I'd love to know how he calculates that Obama was only responsible for $140 billion when the "Stimulus Package" alone was nearly $1 trillion.... 

Only a Dumbocrat could acknowledge that a president spent $800 billion for a bill and then claim that he was only responsible for spending "$140 billion". Fuck'n _moron_...


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## Pogo (Mar 23, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



--- this from the same fucknutz who tells us the state of Wisconsin has a one trillion dollar surplus.


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## percysunshine (Mar 23, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> *The debate is OVER* as Rott and his buddies have been pwnd again.



Jake, I was at Disney Worlds EPCOT theme park last week. I had never been there before, but it looked a lot like what Detroit was envisioned to be when the great Urban Planners were hard at work in the 1960s.

I guess things did not turn out the way the planners hoped they would.

.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > FJO said:
> ...



Hey pea brain, FACTS continue to be your only problem. You parrot all the right wing talking points, but none of the FACTS back them up. But parrots can only mimic, not think.

1) Eisenhower was a Republican.

2) The graph proves Carter INCREASED military spending each year of his administration.

3) Each President's budget starts one year into their term, and ends one year after they leave office.

SO, the Carter budget years are 1978-1981


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



The trend in your own graph shows it going down until the Reagan years. A 1 time increase under Carter doesn't mean you disregard 3 years of cutting. Only a Dumbocrat would celebrate "success" 1/4 of the time...


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

percysunshine said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > *The debate is OVER* as Rott and his buddies have been pwnd again.
> ...



Starkey has *no* response for the failure of the Dumbocrats in Detroit or the success of the Republican administration in Wisconsin...


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Edmund Burke

The stimulus (ARRA) provided funding for a broad array of spending initiatives that, combined with tax cuts, were intended to provide economic stimulus. In February 2009, CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimated that enacting ARRA would increase federal deficitsthrough the combination of spending increases and revenue reductionsby a total of $787 billion *over the 2009-2019 period.*

WHOSE debt is it?

Adding to the deficit: Bush vs. Obama - The Washington Post


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## Bfgrn (Mar 23, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
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There was NO, ZERO, ZILCH cutting of military SPENDING during the Carter years...NONE. It went UP every year.

WTF is wrong with the right wing brain? The blue is SPENDING in billions of dollars. The red is percentage of GDP.


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
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Well considering that Bush was completely gone by 2009 and had *nothing* to do with the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, it is clearly OBAMA's DEBT.

Thank you for _proving_ my point.

The nations debt stood barely over $10 trillion when Obama took office. He has now pushed that to over $17 trillion and climbing. In the process, he has _demanded_ (and received) that the debt ceiling be raised.

So for the third time now, what happened to "pay as you go"?


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## P@triot (Mar 23, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> There was NO, ZERO, ZILCH cutting of military SPENDING during the Carter years...NONE. It went UP every year.
> 
> WTF is wrong with the right wing brain? The blue is SPENDING in billions of dollars. The red is percentage of GDP.



         

*During his first month in office, Carter cut the defense budget by $6 billion.*

Presidency of Jimmy Carter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

         

Now how does military spending "go up every year" when Carter cut the defense budget by $6 billion?!? 

(Now here comes the part where the lying and desperate Dumbocrat tries to use semantics to say that "military" and "defense" are different )

Reagan had to rebuild what Carter tore down. The facts are really kicking your ass in this thread chief.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 24, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > There was NO, ZERO, ZILCH cutting of military SPENDING during the Carter years...NONE. It went UP every year.
> ...



HELLO? Is there ANYTHING inside your tiny little head?

WHAT don't you understand about the FACT military spending DID "go up every year"?

AND...

The reversal in the post-Vietnam decline of American military spending *began* under Carter. Reagan just continued what Carter, NOT Reagan began. From a starting point of 4.7 percent of GDP, Carter called for raising defense spending to 5.2 percent of GDP in his final budget for fiscal year 1981. The Carter administration called for defense spending to rise even further by 1987 to 5.7 percent of GDP  only a little below the 6.2 percent where it peaked in 1986.

AGAIN, FACTS are your only downfall, but hey, you are able to parrot right wing propaganda flawlessly...

Poly want a cracker?


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## Bfgrn (Mar 24, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



This leaves us with only one question...

Are you THAT dishonest, or are you THAT obtuse?

Which one is it???


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## Bfgrn (Mar 24, 2014)

More FACTS...

Carter Revisited

Popularly known as one of our weakest and unsuccessful Presidents- although the perception may be true- much of it is a result of myths- and incorrect information- whereas- Ronald Reagans overall great image in American politics- is also due to many myths.

Jimmy Carter did not entangle America in foreign conflicts- Jimmy Carter did not expand our debt significantly (1.6-2.7%)- Jimmy Carter reduced the poverty rate (1976-80 poverty rate fell several points), Jimmy Carter was not a big tax and spend President.

Another popular myth is what Jimmy Carter did to the military- i.e. created a hollow force, reduced spending, etc.  this is a myth. Carter did not engage in some massive reduction in military spending, the budget was on a rapid decline because of the end of the Vietnam War, but into his second year- he (Carter) began a military buildup in spending and to address the hollow force issues which was a result of the draw down related directly to the ending of the Vietnam War.

After Carters second year in office military spending was boosted by 5% on an upward trajectory- continued by Reagan.   During the Carter years- defense spending increased from 4.7% of GDP to 5.2% of GDP- therefore- it was pure myth that during the Carter years the military was hollowed out or cut is simply not true.  Indeed some cut were being made as a result of winding up the Vietnam War and it was Carter who initiated programs to rectify this situation by creating new platforms, commission new weapons, and a surge in building LIFT capability (in later years this gave our military global reach).  Reagan continued and expanded upon Carters and Secretary of Defense Browns policies.

I am personally a great fan of Ronald Reagan and remember his Presidency well, but in the study of history- we use time and greater time as an analytical tool to be able to reflect on events more clearly, more objectively and with less emotion- and probably- with many more facts than when events occurred.

In this case, its time to revise history just a bit- to realize that Carter got a bad rap for many things which were simply not true about him- and Reagan gained a lot of adulation for things which were not true about him also- i.e. he created enormous deficits by cutting taxes and raising defense spending and the increased tax base did not yield as much revenue as predicted- hence large deficits.

For example, under Carter, the budget deficit as a percentage of GDP was 1.6%-2.7% yet under Reagan, our deficits expanded from 2.6% to 4.0% to 6.0% hovering for two years at 5.1% before reducing to 3.2% during his final year.  From those numbers- clearly Carter is the fiscal conservative whereas Reagan is the one expanding government, spending, and debt levels.

In fact, despite Reagans huge federal tax cuts- after he approved and signed into law- other tax increases- his overall tax cut was only 1/10 of a percent- hardly aligns with what people think of Reagan since the media hyped his large federal income tax reductions- but in reality- he signed in a host of other taxes which in most part- neutralized his federal tax cuts- thats the reality!  Another anti-conservative policy of Reagan was the immigration Act of 1986 which gave AMNESTY to THREE MILLION (3 million) illegal aliens in America- and is probably the single biggest catalyst for massive illegal immigration thereafter- since illegals thought they could continue to enter America and just wait and hide until the next amnesty comes along- HARDLY a conservative policy for a Republican president.


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## Politico (Mar 24, 2014)

TheOldSchool said:


> Dems were in charge during the good times too.  But I guess those don't count.  Maybe the Republican governor will magically save Detroit by hatin the gays and ranting about Obamacare.



If a Governor ran a city some part of that might make sense.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 24, 2014)

Every city, every state run by Democrats for long periods of time ends up the same: poverty, decay, death.


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## P@triot (Mar 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



So Wiki is now "right-wing propaganda" in your small mind? 

Son, you just got _owned_. The *facts* prove that you're a partisan hack that buys into the Dumbocrat propaganda. Carter cut defense. Lets look at that again because maybe you're one of those slow learners who require repetition:

*During his first month in office, Carter cut the defense budget by $6 billion.*

Presidency of Jimmy Carter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now if you *cut* something by $6 billion it means that it definitely did *not* go "up" every year. 

What don't _you_ understand about the FACT Carter *cut* military spending by $6 billion in his very first month in office?


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## P@triot (Mar 24, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Every city, every state run by Democrats for long periods of time ends up the same: poverty, decay, death.



And both Detroit and Wisconsin prove it. Watching these Dumbocrats attempt to change the subject, lie their fat asses off, and ignore reality out of fear that their government gravy train might end is really something to see. They are humiliating themselves but don't seem to mind.


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## P@triot (Mar 24, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Looks like [MENTION=19018]Bfgrn[/MENTION] surrendered and ran away like a little girl after he couldn't explain how Carter "increased" spending "every" year if he cut defense by $6 billion in his first month on the job... 

It would seem that swallowing the liberal propaganda like the USMB Dumbocrats do can leave one quite humiliated when they realize they can no longer deny reality.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 24, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Dance all you want pea brain, but here are the FACTS:







Historical Tables

*Table 15.4TOTAL GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURES BY MAJOR CATEGORY OF EXPENDITURE: 19482013	* 
	(in billions of dollars)							

Fiscal Year - Defense and International

1977	103.6 - Ford
1978	112.0 - Carter
1979	123.8 - Carter
1980	146.7 - Carter
1981	170.6 - Carter
1982	197.6 - Reagan

Now, let's see if you can pass a tough quiz...

Is 103.6 more or less than 112.0?
Is 112.0 more or less than 123.8?
Is 123.8 more or less than 146.7?
Is 146.7 more or less than 170.6?

Take your time....


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## P@triot (Mar 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Is cutting $6 billion from the budget more or less? Take _your_ time...


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## Bfgrn (Mar 24, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
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The final numbers are in...they are now historical FACT. So SHOW me in the historical table where your phantom 6 billion dollars shows up? Go back and check your wiki source...was Carters original 1978 budget 118.0? You got some 'splainin to do.


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## Tresha91203 (Mar 24, 2014)

Pogo said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> ...



Mayors are the worst for croneyism. Many use their office to pad their bank accounts, selling all sorts of favors. I'd say Congressmen come in second.


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## Tresha91203 (Mar 24, 2014)

Pogo said:


> MaxGrit said:
> 
> 
> > Brain357 said:
> ...



Here it was because the imports would last ... they'd go 100k miles while we were teasing that Ford stood for Found on Road Dead or Fix or Repair Daily.  The big cars are still selling, and SUV's replaced minivans.


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## P@triot (Mar 25, 2014)

Pogo said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> ...



Bwahahahahahaha!!!! "Political spectra don't play in city-level *politics*"?!? Really dumb-ass?!? Think of the mind-numbing stupidity of that sentence. Watching the unimaginable level of stupidity by  [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] is fall down hilarious. He literally just said that there is nothing political about "city-level" politics. 

First of all junior, nice grammar (political spectra don't play - really?!?). That wouldn't be "doesn't play" you high school drop out.

Second, if it "doesn't play" them why do all mayors run as Dumbocrats or Republicans, or other political party?

Third, your ignorant ass left out the fact that the Dumbocrats have had complete city council control during that same time period. And they have implemented the full-scale Dumbocrat philosophy across the board. And it did exactly what we _knew_ it would - collapsed Detroit just like it did Cuba. It's what communism always does.

Politics plays every much into the role of mayor as it does the roll of president you dumb-fuck desperate partisan hack. Watching you post senseless drivel because I bent you over and made you my bitch on USMB years ago is just sad.

If you can't come up with a better response in your desperate tizzy, don't post at all. You just make things worse for yourself when you post mind-numbing stupidity such as "politics don't play in city politics".


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## P@triot (Mar 25, 2014)

Pogo said:


> *Political spectra don't play in city-level* *politics*, Brainiac.  Mayors are city managers.  Whether they have a D, an R or no letter at all after their name is irrelevant.  They don't  politically philosophize.  They call out the snow plows and hand over keys to the city.
> 
> Duh.



           

I seriously have tears in my eyes right now. I mean, Pogo is so dumb he finished the sentence with the words city-level *politics* in the same sentence where he stated that politics don't exist. Then there would be no city-level *politics* genius. Oh my God, that is fucking _hilarious_.

This is literally as stupid as Pogo saying there was no rape when he raped that woman.....


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## P@triot (Mar 25, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > *Political spectra don't play in city-level* *politics*, Brainiac.  Mayors are city managers.  Whether they have a D, an R or no letter at all after their name is irrelevant.  They don't  politically philosophize.  They call out the snow plows and hand over keys to the city.
> ...



Pogo: "I was not robbing that bank when I robbed that bank!!!"


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## P@triot (Mar 25, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > *Political spectra don't play in city-level* *politics*, Brainiac.  Mayors are city managers.  Whether they have a D, an R or no letter at all after their name is irrelevant.  They don't  politically philosophize.  They call out the snow plows and hand over keys to the city.
> ...



Pogo: "That was NOT assault when I assualted that man!"


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## Pogo (Mar 25, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



So four days later this is all the cretin comes up with. 

It doesn't say "politics don't exist" dumbass.  Get your teacher to read it aloud to you.  And after that, grow the fuck up.


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## Pogo (Mar 25, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Remember, Buttsoiler says the state of Wisconsin was in debt by that much and now has a surplus of one TRILLION so numbers are not exactly his forté.

The same clown who says he evacuates Katrina with everything he needs in 20 minutes, having been advised by NOAA who gave him the warning two days before the storm was even born, so linear time isn't his strong suit either... 

Nor is reading comprehension...
Nor is geography...

But infantile emoticons dancing all over the screen, he got dat shit _down_.


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## Pogo (Mar 25, 2014)

Brain357 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> ...



Hey, with a trillion-dollar surplus they can *buy* a military, complete with a navy to patrol the Great Lakes, probably take over Canada too.


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## 007 (Mar 25, 2014)

Brain357 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> ...


Oh contrare ignorant one, Wisconsin does have a military. It's the 600,000 people that are armed with high powered rifles, pistols and shot guns that hit the woods hunting deer every Fall, not to mention all the other people that hunt small game, and/or just own firearms for personal protection or recreational shooting. 

Yeah, Wisconsin does have an army, and Scott Walker is a good governor.


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## Pogo (Mar 25, 2014)

007 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
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With a trillion dollar surplus, he's gotta be.  You guys must get, like, hundred dollar bills coming out your water faucets.


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## P@triot (Mar 25, 2014)

Pogo said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



You said there were "no politics in city-level *politics*"... 

Only Pogo could say something that stupid....


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## P@triot (Mar 25, 2014)

Pogo said:


> Remember, Buttsoiler says the state of Wisconsin was in debt by that much and now has a surplus of one TRILLION so numbers are not exactly his forté.
> 
> The same clown who says he evacuates Katrina with everything he needs in 20 minutes, having been advised by NOAA who gave him the warning two days before the storm was even born, so linear time isn't his strong suit either...
> 
> ...



I love when I make Pogo my bitch on USMB because it causes him to go unhinged _and_ lie. I've posted the exact numbers and said "almost" a billion in every post. On ONE post I accidentally typed the wrong word (and he knows it too) - but because I own him with facts on every thread he has to pretend like I actually said a "trillion".

From post #16 junior...

While Detroit is a shit-hole of poverty and misery, Wisconsin has lowered their unemployment 3%, erased their ($6 billion?) debt, created a nearly $1 *billion* surplus, and are now cutting taxes to put even more money in the pockets of the people there - and all of it was achieved with conservative policy.

Meanwhile, dumb-ass says "there is no political spectra in city-level *politics*". It took him 4 words in the same sentence to contradict himself! A new Dumbocrat record!

Pogo: "I did not steal the money that I stole"


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## Pogo (Mar 25, 2014)

Can't even read his own writing, let alone anyone else's....



Rottweiler said:


> Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. *When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion*. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.



What a jackwagon.  But then -- it's "what he does best".


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## JoeB131 (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost *$1 trillion*. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.
> 
> The debate is _over_. Detroit proved that Dumbocrat policy collapses cities just as it does nations (Cuba, U.S.S.R., Greece, etc.) and Wisconsin proves that free-market conservative capitalism creates wealth and prosperity just as it does with nations (America before the rise of the cancer known as liberalism, Russia after they turned to it to rebuild from the former U.S.S.R., etc.).



You understand a state is different than a city, right? 

Milwaukee is just as much a miserable place as Detroit is, for the same reason. A one industry city that now has to compete with everyplace else having that industry. 

And I'm not even sure whre you are getting this "one trillion" in surplus from.  Since Wisconsin has only   6 million residents, that would mean that each one of them would have to pay $166,666.00 in taxes above and beyond what the state needs to operate.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 26, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was ($6 billion?) in debt. They now have a surplus of almost *$1 trillion*. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.
> ...



Milwaukee is a burned out bankrupt wreck?  Who knew??


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## JoeB131 (Mar 26, 2014)

Milwaukee's population has declined from a high of 741,000 in 1960 to only 594,000.   Much as Detroit is filled with closed auto plants, Milwaukee is filled with closed breweries.  

While not hit as hard as Cleveland and Detroit, it has the same problem all our major industrial cities have- the jobs have gone overseas.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Isn't that comical? I have a friend up there right now who has lived all over America and she is raving about Milwaukee. Says it is the cleanest city she has ever lived in (nobody has EVER said that about Detroit) and the city is thriving.

This article *proves* that Pogo is a lying piece of shit who makes stuff up:

*Detroit collapses under weight of debt, Milwaukee doing well* | FOX6Now.com


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## JoeB131 (Mar 26, 2014)

my neice went to college in Milwaukee.  She had to come back here afterwards because there were no job oppurtunities up there.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> my neice went to college in Milwaukee.  She had to come back here afterwards because there were no job oppurtunities up there.



Tell that to my friend who just landed a huge job up there. I'm sure your niece was there in the 70's or 80's - right? Of had some obscure useless left-wing college degree like "art history". In any case, your niece doesn't top reality:

MILWAUKEE (WITI)  As Detroit struggles with the fiscal fallout from its bankruptcy filing, collapsing under the weight of its debt, Milwaukee is at the other end of the spectrum. The city has one of the best-funded pension systems in the nation due to fiscal discipline and good planning.

Detroit collapses under weight of debt, Milwaukee doing well | FOX6Now.com


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## JoeB131 (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > my neice went to college in Milwaukee.  She had to come back here afterwards because there were no job oppurtunities up there.
> ...



Nope, she was there last year.  

Milwaukee is a shit city, I usually avoid it when driving to my summer place in Wisconsin.  sadly, Walker is extending the shit to the whole state.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Again, you're making shit up. Milwaukee is thriving and Wisconsin has been rescued thanks to Scott Walker and conservative policy. From billions in debt to nearly $1 billion in surplus.

You're just pissed that Wisconsin proves you're ideology is ignorant and failed. What you want (no work and everything provided for you) creates Detroit and Cuba.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



I find it comical that Pogo and Joe *never* add a source to back up their outrageous claims (then again, it's difficult to find sources for FALSE information).


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## JoeB131 (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> [
> 
> Again, you're making shit up. Milwaukee is thriving and Wisconsin has been rescued thanks to Scott Walker and conservative policy. From billions in debt to nearly $1 billion in surplus.
> 
> You're just pissed that Wisconsin proves you're ideology is ignorant and failed. What you want (no work and everything provided for you) creates Detroit and Cuba.



Guy, half the state hates him.  I go to Wisconsin twice a year, I doubt you've ever been there once.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Well duh! Considering the state is overwhelmingly liberal, I'm shocked that 90% of the state doesn't hate him. That doesn't change the fact that the state went from a Dumbocrat failed shit-hole of $6 billion in debt with 9% unemployment to a thriving prosperity of nearly $1 billion surplus and 6% unemployment thanks to sound and proven conservative policy.

Half the state hates him because they can no longer sit on their ass and receive handouts. They actually have to _contribute_ to society. Gasp!


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## Bfgrn (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Hey pea brain, did you forget already? It has NOTHING to do with 'conservative policy'.

All Walker's voodoo scheme will create is DEFICITS and DEBT down the road.

Let's get to the REAL truth...

Deficit turned surplus*

In January 2014, the nonpartisan Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau projected the state would have a $1 billion surplus at the end of the two-year budget period covering July 2013 to July 2015 -- *almost all of it because tax collections are rising faster than expected.* That helped back up a frequent Walker boast that he has turned state finances around.

But there is arguably an asterisk to the boast.

Also in January 2014, the Wisconsin Democratic Party stated: *"The national economic recovery has led to higher than expected tax revenues and projected budget surpluses in nearly every state in the nation, including Wisconsin."

We rated the statement True.* State budget watchers confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.


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## gipper (Mar 26, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



National economic recovery....WTF!  There has been no such thing, but then lying pols always lie and some are so gullible as to believe the lies.


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## edthecynic (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


From billions in debt to billions MORE in debt, you mean. Wisconsin is 47 billion in debt and the debt is rising as I post!

State of Wisconsin Debt Clock


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## edthecynic (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


Wisconsin is $47+ billion in debt right now. Its debt has INCREASED every year under Walker and is INCREASING as I post this.

State of Wisconsin Debt Clock


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
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Of course they stated that stupid, they are desperate to cover up the success of conservative policy out of fear that they might have to actually get up off of their lazy asses and contribute to society.

It is fall down hilarious that the Wisconsin Dumbocrat Party states something and you swallow it down as fast as they feed it to you. Who cares what they say? They are bunch of buffoons who spent Wisconsin $6 billion into debt and now they are trying to cover up their failed policies.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 26, 2014)

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You are right, who cares what the Democrats say... the FACTS are THIS:

In January 2014, *the nonpartisan Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau* projected the state would have a $1 billion surplus at the end of the two-year budget period covering July 2013 to July 2015 -- *almost all of it because tax collections are rising faster than expected.* That helped back up a frequent Walker boast that he has turned state finances around.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 26, 2014)

AND...

State budget watchers confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 26, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> AND...
> 
> State budget watchers confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.


Hows that working out in Illinois?


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## Bfgrn (Mar 26, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


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Census Bureau Reports State Government Tax Collections Reach High of Nearly $800 Billion in Fiscal Year 2012

Overall state government tax collections increased $34.3 billion from fiscal year 2011* to a record $794.6 billion* in 2012, the U.S. Census Bureau reported today. The previous high for overall state tax collections was $779.7 billion in 2008. State tax revenue is up 13.0 percent from $703.4 billion in 2010, which was the lowest collected total since 2005. (State tax figures are represented as current whole dollars and are not adjusted for inflation.).

Overall state tax revenue on individual income was at $280.4 billion for 2012, up 8.1 percent from 2011, while general sales tax revenue was at $242.7 billion for 2012, up 2.9 percent from 2011. License tax revenue increased to $54.0 billion for 2012, up 4.7 percent from 2011. Individual income tax revenue, general sales tax revenue and license tax revenue comprised 72.6 percent of all state government tax collections nationally.

"These findings are the first to be released from the 2012 Census of Governments and provide an indicator of the fiscal health of our state governments and their ability to provide public services," said Lisa Blumerman, chief of the Census Bureau's Governments Division. (Figure 1)

These new statistics come from the 2012 Annual Survey of State Government Tax Collections, which contains annual statistics on the fiscal year tax collections of all 50 state governments, including receipts from compulsory fees. This survey provides an annual summary of taxes collected by states which fall broadly into categories such as property taxes, sales and gross receipts taxes, license taxes and income taxes. Statistics are further broken down into 25 subcategories which cover collection on items such as motor fuel taxes, severance taxes and hunting license taxes. Tax revenues also include related penalty and interest receipts of the governments.

"The Census Bureau's state government tax collections data are an essential benchmark of state fiscal conditions," said Donald Boyd, a senior fellow at the Nelson A. Rockefeller Institute of Government at the State University of New York in Albany. "The latest data show that state tax revenue is continuing to recover, albeit slowly, from the depth of the recession."

Forty-seven states saw an increase in total tax revenue in fiscal year 2012, led by North Dakota (47.0 percent), Alaska (27.3 percent), Illinois (19.1 percent) and Connecticut (15.0 percent).

Among some of the findings from selected tax subcategories:


*States with the largest percentage increase in revenue from individual income taxes were Illinois* (39.8 percent), Hawaii (23.5 percent), Oklahoma (16.3 percent) and Connecticut (13.9 percent).


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## The Rabbi (Mar 26, 2014)

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Thank you for posting that, proving my point. Yes IL has more tax revenue.  No, IL is not better off.
Because they have a spending problem.  Which is something WI addressed.
You're an idiot.  But we knew that.


> Budget problems in the state of Illinois are severe, even after all the cuts of recent years, and even assuming the pension changes enacted in December survive a constitutional challenge.
> 
> Projections from several sources agree that Illinois faces a deficit of at least $4 billion in Fiscal Year 2016, and growing $0.5 to $1 billion each year after that. We at the University of Illinois&#8217; Institute of Government and Public Affairs estimate the state budget deficit will reach $12.4 billion in Fiscal Year 2025.


Richard Dye: Balancing Illinois&#8217; budget will be painful, guaranteed - Opinion - The State Journal-Register - Springfield, IL


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## Pogo (Mar 26, 2014)

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I quoted your own post right back to you, and you're too damn stupid to admit you fucked up.  Therefore, bite me, mister evacuate-Katrina-in-20-minutes.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

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And isn't that funny how that just happens to coincide with even liberal states turning to conservatives after Obama and the Dumbocrats the world economy?

Wisconsin turned to Scott Walker. Ohio turned to John Kasich. Kansas turned to Sam Brownback. Michigan turned to Rick Snyder. Mississippi turned to Phil Bryant. New Jersey turned to Chris Christie. The list goes on and on and on.

Dumbocrats took such an epic ass-beating in the 2010 mid-terms because the nation realized Obama was tanking the economy and turned to Republicans to at least cushion that blow and have decent economies at the state level (ie low state taxes, low state regulations). Then, after complete failure, Obama and the Dumbocrats like BG here try to take credit for the conservative policies.

It's funny how these buffoons hate conservatism but sure try to take all the credit for what it produces...


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## JoeB131 (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> [
> 
> Well duh! Considering the state is overwhelmingly liberal, I'm shocked that 90% of the state doesn't hate him. That doesn't change the fact that the state went from a Dumbocrat failed shit-hole of $6 billion in debt with 9% unemployment to a thriving prosperity of nearly $1 billion surplus and 6% unemployment thanks to sound and proven conservative policy.
> 
> Half the state hates him because they can no longer sit on their ass and receive handouts. They actually have to _contribute_ to society. Gasp!



No, they hate him because he's gutted services to give presents to his rich friends...


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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And _why_ are "tax collections rising faster than expected"? Because more people are back to work. And _why_ are more people back to work. Because the state of Wisconsin grew tired of the misery and poverty of Dumbocrat policy and elected a Republican who has replaced liberal trickle-up-poverty with conservative policies that create wealth and prosperity. Here is what he did:


Created a state commission on waste, fraud, and abuse which ultimately identified $400 million in savings for the Wisconsin tax payer


Eliminated taxes on HSA's (good for business and good for healthcare)


Signed bill into law requiring 2/3 majority vote to raise income taxes or sales taxes in Wisconsin (bringing stability and piece of mind to business owners - allowing them to better plan, expand, and invest in their business...and it also attracts additional businesses from other states)


Signed balanced budget into law


Signed conceal carry law (making Wisconsin safer - which attracts business, attracts customers, and lowers insurance costs on businesses)


Increased the Jobs Now Tax Credit


Signed Executive Order #61 which further enforced and expanded 2011 Wisconsin Act 46 (which protects small business from government regulations)
In short, he created an environment for business to thrive and prosper. And when businesses thrive and prosper, people thrive and prosper thanks to the jobs. It's not rocket science. Dumbocrats understand it too. They just don't want to have to work. So they support policies which destroys jobs and business.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 26, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


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Hey Einstein, without Illinois's huge increase in tax revenue from a national economic recovery, would Illinois be better off or worse off with less revenue...

Take you time...


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## Bfgrn (Mar 26, 2014)

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"The national economic recovery has led to higher than expected tax revenues and projected budget surpluses in nearly every state in the nation, including Wisconsin."

*We rated the statement True*. State budget watchers *confirmed a widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states* as the nation continues to edge out of the Great Recession.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

Pogo said:


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Hey, don't blame me because you're lazy _and_ disorganized. Prepared people can evacuate in under 20 minutes and still have time to make a snack.

What's even more comical is that we have these things called "satellites" that track storms for over a week in advance. You had _days_ to evacuate and decided to take no action (typical of a liberal). Then you expect society to come in, rescue you, and then provide all of your wants and needs.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

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So you're admitting that conservative policy put people back to work in Wisconsin - so much so that it has created "faster than expected" tax collections?

That was my point the whole time. Not sure why you wanted to argue with something you can't deny.


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

Just one of many policies that Scott Walker implemented which lowered his states unemployment from 9% when he took office to it's current 6% (see, when you reward job creators instead of punishing them, you get the desired effect - more jobs):

MadisonAt Tess Oral Health in Eau Claire today, Governor Walker signed legislation aimed at creating more jobs in the state.  AB 1 increases the amount available for the Jobs Now Tax Credit.


This bill enhances our efforts to put people in Wisconsin back to work.  Job creation fuels the economy and will keep this state moving in the right direction.   Governor Walker said.  I would like to thank Rep. Mary Williams for her work on this important legislation.


Under current law, employers who create jobs can claim the Jobs Now Tax Credit based on the wages paid to new employees and on certain training costs. The credit is 10% of qualified new employee wages or $10,000, whichever is less. To qualify, new jobs must pay annual wages of at least $20,000 or at least $30,000 depending on the classification of the municipality or county in which the new job is located.  The employer must be certified by the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation as eligible to claim the credit.


Current law dictates that the total amount that can be claimed for tax years beginning on or after January 1, 2012 and ending June 30, 2013 is limited to $14,500,000. This bill does not change that provision.


Beginning in the fiscal year 2013-14 and thereafter, this bill increases the maximum amount of credits that WEDC can allocate from $5,000,000 to $10,000,000.

Governor Walker Signs Legislation Expanding the Jobs Now Tax Credit | Office of the Governor - Scott Walker


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## P@triot (Mar 26, 2014)

Madison - Governor Scott Walker today released five drafts of bills that are being introduced during the special session the Governor called to get Wisconsin working again.  The five bills released would create a business and job friendly legal environment, make health savings accounts more affordable, grant income and franchise tax credits for businesses relocating to Wisconsin, expand the economic development tax credit, and make it more difficult to raises taxes.

These five pieces of legislation will create a more stable tax and regulatory environment, so business owners can focus on growing jobs, said Governor Scott Walker.  We look forward to partnering with the legislature to implement these and other legislation that will open Wisconsin for business.

The legislation to create a more job friendly legal environment includes common-sense proposals like requiring plaintiffs to prove that damages were actually caused by a manufacturers product, and protecting retailers from liability for defects caused by manufacturers or distributors.  The legislation would also require a plaintiff to prove that the defendant acted with intent to cause injury to collect punitive damages.  The lawsuit reform bill will also discourage plaintiffs from filing frivolous claims, cap non-economic damages for medical malpractice, improve rules of evidence, and protect best practices peer review information from being subpoenaed.

The legislation to make health savings accounts more affordable would create a non-refundable tax credit for income deposited in a health savings account.

Legislation was also released that would exempt businesses from income and franchise taxes for two years for businesses that have done business in Wisconsin for ten years or more.  The Governor also released legislation that would increase the amount available for economic development tax credits from $75 million to $100 million.

Lastly, legislation was released that would require 60 votes in the Assembly and 20 votes in the Senate to pass any bill that raises taxes.

Governor Walker Releases Five Pieces of Legislation to Get Wisconsin Working | Office of the Governor - Scott Walker

(And the best part is - liberals can't claim stuff like this doesn't work because it has )


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## The Rabbi (Mar 26, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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Doesn't matter, genius.  Illinois is a clusterfuck because the Democrats there don't know what "cut spending" means.  So however much more money they take in, they spend that and more.  Thus the problem.

Now back to your snide question: in fact IL is worse off.  I would bet the "temporary" tax increase failed to balance the budget, as they claimed it would do.  I know this because Quinn now wants to make it permanent.  Tax increases never balance a budget.  Never.


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## Pogo (Mar 26, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


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You are a flaming retard.

You claimed in that thread that NOAA warned of Katrina _*before it even formed*_.  And I said in the same thread that I evacuated.  We had hours, not days, but we used them.  Then you claimed you would have done it in 20 minutes, which is as horseshit as the rest of your endless stream of textual diarrhea.

Facts are stubborn things, Buttsoiler.  As always your head is up your ass on every point.  Like this trillion dollar Wisconsin surplus.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 27, 2014)

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Are you being that disingenuous or are you THAT obtuse? A widespread recovery in tax revenues among the states is because of the Governor of ONE state?

"The national economic recovery has led to higher than expected tax revenues and projected budget surpluses in nearly every state in the nation,* including* Wisconsin."


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## Bfgrn (Mar 27, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


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SO...less tax revenue would make the budget gap better, not worse.

Sure sounds like the same retard...



			
				The Rabbi said:
			
		

> "People are not on unemployment for 2 years because there are no jobs.  There are no jobs because people are on unemployment for 2 years."


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## Bfgrn (Mar 27, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Just one of many policies that Scott Walker implemented which lowered his states unemployment from 9% when he took office to it's current 6% (see, when you reward job creators instead of punishing them, you get the desired effect - more jobs):
> 
> MadisonAt Tess Oral Health in Eau Claire today, Governor Walker signed legislation aimed at creating more jobs in the state.  AB 1 increases the amount available for the Jobs Now Tax Credit.
> 
> ...



Sounds like some good ideas. But I didn't know Andrew Cuomo was a conservative...






Jobs for NYers

Over the last two years, New York State has created more than 300,000 new private sector jobs, and has welcomed 20,000 new small businesses in the past year alone. This years on-time, balanced budget continues to grow the economy by cutting taxes for small businesses and middle class families, investing further in our successful Regional Economic Development Councils, and funding initiatives to match and train our workforce for the jobs of tomorrow.

This session produced one of the most aggressive economic development agendas in our states history, including:



START-UP NY: Groundbreaking jobs program designed to jump start the upstate economy through tax-free communities linked to State University of New York (SUNY) and private college campuses. Click here to read more.
 

High-tech Job Programs: Innovative Hot Spot incubator program and the Venture Capital Fund will help to better commercialize our states ideas and innovations and create businesses to transform the face of job creation in New York.
 

Upstate NY Jobs From Gaming: If passed by voters in November, world-class destination gaming resorts will drive economic growth by attracting tourists, generating economic activity for local businesses, and creating thousands of good-paying jobs. Click here to read more.
 

Reducing Taxes on Businesses and Families: Nearly $800 million in tax relief for New York businesses over the next three years, and provides relief for middle class families with a targeted tax credit of $350 per year for three years, beginning in 2014.
 

Financial Assistance for Local Governments: Establishes a Financial Restructuring Board for local governments & reforms the binding arbitration to help eligible distressed cities and local governments manage their finances and provide public services in a more cost-effective manner.


Other critical economic reforms in this years budget include:


Hiring Tax Credits: To help New York's returning soldiers and young people find work, the Budget includes a permanent tax credit for the hiring of Veterans, and $181 million in tax credits over three years for businesses that hire youth.


Reducing Costs and Red Tape for Businesses: To reduce the crushing burden of unemployment insurance and workers compensation, the Budget modernizes and simplifies both systems to provide employers $1.3 billion in savings without affecting workers' benefits.


Workforce Training for Job Openings: New York's workforce training is from a different era and a generic job training program does not fit today's economy. The Budget capitalizes on the opportunity of an estimated 210,000 unfilled jobs in the state by including $5 million for theNext Generation Job Linkage Program that works with employers to: identify the job; define the skill; and provide the training for it.


Protecting the Environment and Creating Green Jobs: The Budget increases support for the Environmental Protection Fund and the Cleaner, Greener Communities program, to launch new projects across the state that both create green jobs and protect New York's natural environment.


Building on the Success of the Regional Councils: The Budget includes a third round of the Regional Economic Development Councils including $150 million in new funding and $70 million in tax credits.


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## P@triot (Mar 27, 2014)

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My apology - I did not read that as state*s* - I read it as state (as in one, as in Wisconsin).

In any case, this only reaffirms what I already pointed out. That once Obama and the Dumbocrats collapsed the world economy, the American people turned to Republicans and conservative policy to keep the U.S. afloat. It's no coincidence that all of this "better than expected tax collections" occured after the 2010 mid-term ass-kickings in which conservatives overwhelmingly won state and local elections.


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## P@triot (Mar 27, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
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> 
> > Just one of many policies that Scott Walker implemented which lowered his states unemployment from 9% when he took office to it's current 6% (see, when you reward job creators instead of punishing them, you get the desired effect - more jobs):
> ...



In other words, after hemorrhaging jobs to other states, New York has now turned to conservative policy to solve the problem their Dumbocrats created...


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## P@triot (Mar 27, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> SO...less tax revenue would make the budget gap better, not worse.
> 
> Sure sounds like the same retard...



Says the guy who believes more spending would somehow make the budget gap better, not worse....


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## Pogo (Mar 27, 2014)

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What a fucking idiot.  The world economy tanked three months before O'bama was even inaugurated.

That linear time thing again, where NOAA warns people about a storm that doesn't even exist yet.  Freaking doofus.


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## P@triot (Mar 27, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
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> 
> > [Well duh! Considering the state is overwhelmingly liberal, I'm shocked that 90% of the state doesn't hate him. That doesn't change the fact that the state went from a Dumbocrat failed shit-hole of $6 billion in debt with 9% unemployment to a thriving prosperity of nearly $1 billion surplus and 6% unemployment thanks to sound and proven conservative policy.
> ...



No, they hate him because he's proven beyond any and all doubt that Dumbcroat policy is failed.

Dumbocrats promise the world and deliver poverty. They create unsustainable debt and high unemployment (because they need to keep people dependent on the government plantation).

And Scott Walker came in and erased all of that with sound conservative policy which creates prosperity for all (the one caveat - the parasite class has to get up off of their lazy asses and actually contribute to society).


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## P@triot (Mar 27, 2014)

Pogo said:


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Well that's funny, I don't seem to recall 10% unemployment before Obama. Hell, I don't even remember 8% before Obama. And I certainly don't recall $17 trillion in debt.

But hey, when did you _ever_ deal in *facts*? You prefer propaganda and ideology at all costs.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 27, 2014)

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You are a gross simpleton who gets his ass handed to him in every debate.
bye.


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## P@triot (Mar 27, 2014)

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." 
 -- Winston Churchill

Only a Dumbocrat could claim that lowering unemployment and turning a $6 billion debt into a nearly $1 billion surplus is "voodoo" which will "create deficits and debt down the road"...


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## edthecynic (Mar 27, 2014)

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And is it a coincidence that the $17 trillion, record food stamps, record number of workers dropping out happened after the 2010 election also?
I thought so!


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## edthecynic (Mar 27, 2014)

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This lie again!

There is no surplus, Walker increased the debt every year and it is increasing at this very moment to a record $47+ billion in debt.

State of Wisconsin Debt Clock


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## P@triot (Mar 27, 2014)

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It's no "lie" junior - _every_ new source in America is reporting on this and is proving that you are completely lost and confused (apparently Ed doesn't understand the difference between debt and liquidity )

The statement contains an element of truth in that state borrowing is at an all-time high -- but, *flush with a nearly $1 billion surplus*, it&#8217;s clear the state does not have a budget deficit.

*We rate the statement Mostly False*

(how appropriate that the article ends like this for a Dumbocrat propaganda point that Ed the Ignorant is parroting)

Despite $1 billion surplus, group says Scott Walker raising state deficit while borrowing is at record high | PolitiFact Wisconsin


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## edthecynic (Mar 27, 2014)

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It figures the idiot who doesn't know the difference between DEBT and DEFICIT and SURPLUS, you, thinks I'm the one confused.

Your own link, which has nothing to do with what I posted, admits that the current DEBT is $14 billion that you said was $6 billion when Walker started. So Walker turned $6 billion in DEBT into $14 billion in DEBT.

From your link:
As for *the total amount of debt the state currently has* -- most of which  was accumulated before Walker -- that *is also at a record level,  exceeding $14 billion.   *


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## Bfgrn (Mar 28, 2014)

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Please explain how "Obama and the Dumbocrats collapsed the world economy"

This should be interesting...


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

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First you state that Walker turned $6 billion into $14 billion and then you follow that up with "as for the total amount of debt the state currently has -- *most of which  was accumulated before Walker*".

Someone a little confused here? Someone a little schizophrenic? You contradict yourself...


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

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With their tax and spend, then borrow and spend, then borrow some more and spend, then keep borrowing and spend, then spend some more while they spend, and finally spend what you've spent policies. $7 trillion in deficit spending in only 4 years is mind-boggling and literally impossible unless you are actively attempting to collapse the world economy.

We've borrowed from China and are not paying them back. Germany and England have asked for their gold back and we refused to give it to them because Obama spent it. Which caused all of them financial hardships and has had a rippling effect on the world economy.

Germany Has Recovered A Paltry 5 Tons Of Gold From The NY Fed After One Year | Zero Hedge

Federal Reserve Refuses to Submit to an Audit of Germany´s Gold Held in US

What really happened to the German gold housed in the United States?

And this doesn't even begin to cover the all out assualt on business - taxes and regulations aimed at putting them out of business. And lets not forget the U.S. having it's bond rating lowered for the first time in our mations history under Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. Of course, this also had a ripple effect though out the world after people realized the government bonds they had invested in were worthless as the U.S. can't pay it's bills thanks to the irresponsible spending of the Dumbocrats. I could go on all day, but this is more than enough proof and you'll just ignore it anyway because that's what you do with facts. You prefer your ideology.


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## gipper (Mar 28, 2014)

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Not only will BO's crazy spending ultimately crash the economy, it has enriched the D Party and many of it's constituent groups.  So...American tax payers are essentially funding the D Party to empower and enrich it.

And the Rs do nothing to stop it, because they want to do the same thing.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 28, 2014)

> And lets not forget the U.S. having it's bond rating lowered for the first time in our mations history under Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.



You mean after Boenher threatened to default on our debt?  

Wow, there's just some arguments that are too obscene to make, unless you are the Poodle.


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## edthecynic (Mar 28, 2014)

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YOU said repeatedly the debt was $6 billion when Walker took over and YOUR link says it is $14 billion now, I am merely quoting YOU. If the numbers don't jive YOUR sources are BULLSHIT.


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

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YOU said the debt is $45 billion. Then YOU said Walker accumulated it. Then YOU said that Walker doesn't have a surplus. I have proven you a *liar* on all accounts.

Game over junior!


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

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Proving you a liar once again junior. Almost EVERY post I made I put $6 billion in parentheses with a question mark because I did not remember the exact debt when Walker took office. From post #4 on page 1 of this thread:




Rottweiler said:


> Go ahead liberals - do what you do best and start with your lies, cries, and excuses. When Walker took over in 2010, the state was *($6 billion?)* in debt. They now have a surplus of almost $1 trillion. And it was done with stone-cold conservative policy across the board.
> 
> The debate is _over_. Detroit proved that Dumbocrat policy collapses cities just as it does nations (Cuba, U.S.S.R., Greece, etc.) and Wisconsin proves that free-market conservative capitalism creates wealth and prosperity just as it does with nations (America before the rise of the cancer known as liberalism, Russia after they turned to it to rebuild from the former U.S.S.R., etc.).



Why do you insist on lying so much EdtheIgnorant? Is it because you're so afraid if the people see the truth they will cut off your government gravy train which is collapsing the U.S., costing people jobs, and hurting them financially - all because you're greedy _and_ lazy? It's a fair question - why won't you answer?


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## edthecynic (Mar 28, 2014)

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The REAL debt IS $47 billion, and I posted the debt clock many times to prove it. 
State of Wisconsin Debt Clock
The $14 billion current debt is the debt without the pension debt. There is no surplus yet, the $977 million PROJECTED surplus which includes $450 million in revenue from Obama is a PROJECTION that has not been realized yet and is not expected to be realized until 2015. The deficit for the budget ending 2013 was $1.7 billion. Walker has had a REAL deficit every year he has been in office which means the debt with or without the pension debt included has increased every year he has been in office and as the debt clock shows, the debt is increasing even now in real time.


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## edthecynic (Mar 28, 2014)

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Parenthesis or not, the DEBT has INCREASED every year of Walker's term. Every year Walker has run a budget DEFICIT, and IF the PROJECTED 2015 surplus pans out it will be the first time his budget will have not run a DEFICIT. You need to learn the difference between DEBT and DEFICIT, PROJECTED and REAL.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 28, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> > And lets not forget the U.S. having it's bond rating lowered for the first time in our mations history under Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, that didnt happen.
Lo Info Joe strikes again.


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
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I know the difference - I don't need to "learn" it. I have yet to encounter a story that said "projected" surplus. Every story I have encountered on this issue has said real, actual, tangible, surplus.

Case in point:

The statement contains an element of truth in that state borrowing is at an all-time high -- but, *flush with a nearly $1 billion surplus*, its clear the state does not have a budget deficit.

Despite $1 billion surplus, group says Scott Walker raising state deficit while borrowing is at record high | PolitiFact Wisconsin

(Please point out to me where it says PROJECTED...I'll wait)

There is a *surplus of nearly a billion dollars* in this economy, Limbaugh continued

Rush Limbaugh Says ?Democrats Are Living in Mortal Fear? of the Day This ?Huge? Story Is Widely Reported | TheBlaze.com

(Please point out to me where it says PROJECTED...I'll wait)

Two vastly different sources, each saying the same thing. If you have a problem with the information, take it up with the news sources junior. I didn't write the stories - I merely posted them.

One more very important point to make here. Lets just say for arguments sake that it is a "_projected_" surplus. It's still game, set, match for the Dumbocrats because under their control there was nothing but debt, massive debt, projected debt, further projected deficits, higher unemployment, misery, and poverty.

So no matter how you try to spin this (and give the devil his due, you are working your ass off overtime to spin this thing), it still proves beyond all shadow of a doubt that liberal policy ends in poverty while conservative policy ends in prosperity. Share-the-wealth is a failed ideology junior, the former Soviet Union proved that over 30 years ago. If you spent 1/10th as much time working or improving your own skill set as you do trying to spin for the Dumbocrats, you'd prosper in your own life and you wouldn't need to live off of government.


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## percysunshine (Mar 28, 2014)

The Debate is over?

Need I mention that a few thousand years ago, Detroit was buried under 3000 feet of ice.

It is debatable whether the current state of affairs is more beneficial to the community.


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## Wry Catcher (Mar 28, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> 
> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walkers $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of Wisconsins projected $977 million surplus to pay for property and income tax cuts.
> 
> ...



Wow, $46 dollars saved, one wonders how much a blown tire cut in a pot hole would cost to replace.  Rot Whiner, ditto heads and others of the lesser intellect don't get it, taxes pay for services far beyond the pot hole (which BTW would likely be repaired by a private sector company's private sector employee) and the loss of such services impact the lives of all of us.


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## RoshawnMarkwees (Mar 28, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> Wow, $46 dollars saved, one wonders how much a blown tire cut in a pot hole would cost to replace.  Rot Whiner, ditto heads and others of the lesser intellect don't get it, taxes pay for services far beyond the pot hole (which BTW would likely be repaired by a private sector company's private sector employee) and the loss of such services impact the lives of all of us.



Where does it say the pothole wouldn't be repaired in spite of the saved $46?


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## The Rabbi (Mar 28, 2014)

RoshawnMarkwees said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, $46 dollars saved, one wonders how much a blown tire cut in a pot hole would cost to replace.  Rot Whiner, ditto heads and others of the lesser intellect don't get it, taxes pay for services far beyond the pot hole (which BTW would likely be repaired by a private sector company's private sector employee) and the loss of such services impact the lives of all of us.
> ...



AssCatcher is an ignorant cocksucker. Just filling you in.


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## Wry Catcher (Mar 28, 2014)

RoshawnMarkwees said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, $46 dollars saved, one wonders how much a blown tire cut in a pot hole would cost to replace.  Rot Whiner, ditto heads and others of the lesser intellect don't get it, taxes pay for services far beyond the pot hole (which BTW would likely be repaired by a private sector company's private sector employee) and the loss of such services impact the lives of all of us.
> ...



It's an example; one which most drivers understand for when budgets have to be balanced priorities need to be established.  With less revenue government must make cuts, and if the cuts mean stuff doesn't get done in a timely manner, BANG goes the Michelin.


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## Wry Catcher (Mar 28, 2014)

Rabbi is a liar, a fool, a partisan hack, vulgar and a homophobic gay person.  Yep, he's very strange.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 28, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> RoshawnMarkwees said:
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You didnt answer the question.  You understand that right?  Was your mouth too filled with inmate cock to see it?


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## The Rabbi (Mar 28, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> Rabbi is a liar, a fool, a partisan hack, vulgar and a homophobic gay person.  Yep, he's very strange.



You got that projection thing down pat.


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> ...



Typical Dumbocrat - believes that the world will end if government waste, fraud, and abuse is stopped. Tell me junior, where exactly does it say that they are going to stop road repairs because of these tax cuts. You clearly don't understand what the word *surplus* means (psst - hey _stupid_ - it means after all of their expenses are covered they are still left with more money than they need).

In addition to that, isn't funny how people like WC always cry about how things "impact the lives of *all* of us" yet only half of us are picking up the tab? Nearly 50% of America pays no taxes (like WC here). In short, he's really pissed off when the rest of us don't give him a free ride.

Like all Dumbocrats, queer catcher here still firmly believes in *slavery*. The rest of us are supposed to labor for _his_ benefit. We work and then turn over the results of our labor to him. Meanwhile he sits on his ass all day contributing nothing to society.


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

RoshawnMarkwees said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, $46 dollars saved, one wonders how much a blown tire cut in a pot hole would cost to replace.  Rot Whiner, ditto heads and others of the lesser intellect don't get it, taxes pay for services far beyond the pot hole (which BTW would likely be repaired by a private sector company's private sector employee) and the loss of such services impact the lives of all of us.
> ...



Catcher doesn't understand the term *surplus*. Catcher doesn't understand a _lot_ of terms (dropping out of high school to smoke pot will do that to a person).

It's no wonder he's a government-dependent Dumbocrat. Would you be able to survive if your intellect was so limited you thought returning a surplus of money to the tax payer - where it belongs - means roads won't be repaired?


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> RoshawnMarkwees said:
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Seriously WC - which part of *surplus* do you not understand? This is absolutely humiliating for you that your little panties are in such a panic about "cuts" when it's simply that this state government has more money than they require for their budget.

Clearly you are a government parasite. I've never seen someone so panicked at the thought of a small tax cut due to a *surplus*.


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## edthecynic (Mar 28, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
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You lie like your MessiahRushie, very badly. Only liars like Porky leave out the PROJECTED!

From YOUR OWN link:

Walker proposed the cuts after the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau in mid-January 2014* projected * that the state will see, mostly as a result of higher-than-expected tax  collections, *a $977 million surplus* by the time the current two-year  budget cycle ends *in June 2015.*


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## P@triot (Mar 28, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
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The quotes are still there above and I am still waiting for you to tell me where you see the word "projected" in them. I'm also still waiting for you to explain how it is that Dumbocrat leadership in Wisconsin created such overwhelming debt while Walker was able to create almost a billion in surplus (actual or "projected") in such a short time.

You're silencing is defeaning. While you work on a way to spin it out of desperation, I'll post those quotes again from above:

The statement contains an element of truth in that state borrowing is at an all-time high -- but, *flush with a nearly $1 billion surplus*, its clear the state does not have a budget deficit.

Despite $1 billion surplus, group says Scott Walker raising state deficit while borrowing is at record high | PolitiFact Wisconsin

(Please point out to me where it says PROJECTED...I'll wait)

*There is a surplus of nearly a billion dollars* in this economy, Limbaugh continued

Rush Limbaugh Says Democrats Are Living in Mortal Fear of the Day This Huge Story Is Widely Reported

(Please point out to me where it says PROJECTED...I'll wait)

The quotes are there with the links. If you can't show me the word "projected" in either quote, then admit defeat and go home with your tail between your legs son.


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## edthecynic (Mar 28, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
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That quote comes directly from YOUR politifact link, the second sentence under the heading "*Surplus/deficit."*

Despite $1 billion surplus, group says Scott Walker raising state deficit while borrowing is at record high | PolitiFact Wisconsin

When caught lying, the Right play dumb because they have convinced themselves if they are too STUPID to know they are lying, then they are telling the truth, ala St Ronnie.

REAGAN (3/4/87): A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. *My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true.* But the facts and the evidence tell me it is not.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
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WHEN did the collapse of the economy occur? 

WHEN did America become a borrow and spend nation?


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## P@triot (Mar 29, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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The direct answer to your question is - when the cancer known as liberalism was formed.

But a more thorough answer is that is an absurd and desperate question which doesn't even make sense. There is no "when" that even remotely applies to this issue. Just because your predecessor did something, that means you have to do it?!? Really? If GWB made America a "borrow and spend" that means Obama must continue doing it?

This is absolutely as stupid as a serial killer telling a court "hey, I'm not the first serial killer. Tell me your honor - WHEN did people become serial killers?". As if previous people doing the same thing somehow excuses his murders. You really are a _special_ kind of stupid, aren't you?

You asked how the Dumbocrats collapsed the world economy and I answered. You had no response. Like all Dumbocrats, you were completely unaware of the fact that the U.S. is refusing to give gold back to the nations who own it (a simply criminal act by Obama). Because you're not mature enough to admit when you're wrong, you ask "when did America become a borrow and spend nation" as if that somehow excuses the Dumbocrats reckless and criminal behavior.


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## P@triot (Mar 29, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
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EdtheIgnorant - it's 3 posts later and the quotes are _still_ there and I'm _still_ waiting for you to tell me where it says projected in them.

Furthermore, I'm still waiting for your ignorant and lying ass to explain why you are running away from this story. The Dumbocrats built high debt and high unemployment in Wisconsin. Scott Walker came in and in just a few years, completely turned the state around - putting people back to work and taking the Wisconsin debt and turning it into a surplus (actual or projected).

The fact that you won't answer proves that you are the 

While you work on a way to spin it out of desperation, I'll post those quotes again from above for a FOURTH time:

The statement contains an element of truth in that state borrowing is at an all-time high -- but, *flush with a nearly $1 billion surplus*, it&#8217;s clear the state does not have a budget deficit.

Despite $1 billion surplus, group says Scott Walker raising state deficit while borrowing is at record high | PolitiFact Wisconsin

(Please point out to me where it says PROJECTED...I'll wait)

*There is a surplus of nearly a billion dollars* in this economy,&#8221; Limbaugh continued

Rush Limbaugh Says Democrats Are Living in Mortal Fear of the Day This Huge Story Is Widely Reported

(Please point out to me where it says PROJECTED...I'll wait)

The quotes are there with the links. If you can't show me the word "projected" in either quote, then admit defeat and go home with your tail between your legs son.


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## P@triot (Mar 29, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> When caught lying, the Right play dumb because they have convinced themselves if they are too STUPID to know they are lying, then they are telling the truth, ala St Ronnie.
> 
> REAGAN (3/4/87): A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. *My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true.* But the facts and the evidence tell me it is not.



Really? You _really_ want to go there EdtheIgnorant? Lets take a look at the Dumbocrats greatest hits?

(Note how these Dumbocrat assholes point at the camera and are adamant about their statement while knowingly LYING to the American people)

Bill Clinton: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
[ame=http://youtu.be/KiIP_KDQmXs]Clinton, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman... - YouTube[/ame]

Barack Obama: "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, of you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"
[ame=http://youtu.be/qpa-5JdCnmo]36 Times Obama Said You Could Keep Your Health Care Plan - YouTube[/ame]

Harry Reid: "I have never come to the floor, to the best of my recollection, I have never said a word about the examples Republicans have given with regards to Obamacare"
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nefN-QvOPXY]Harry Reid Says He Never Called ObamaCare Stories Lies - YouTube[/ame]

And that is why EdtheIgnorant is the perfect Dumnocrat. He's a parasite and he lies about everything. Once again, you've been _owned_ with *facts* junior.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
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So you don't know when the economy collapsed or when America became a borrow and spend nation.


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## edthecynic (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
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The perpetual dumb act! Do you really think nobody can see your own link says the "surplus" is a PROJECTION that will materialize by 2015???? Not only that, as you can see the word "projected" in your politifact link is itself a link to the source of the $1 trillion surplus estimate cited and it repeatedly says it is a PROJECTION!!!!!!!!!


From your above politifact link:
Walker proposed the cuts after the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau in mid-January 2014* projected * that the state will see, mostly as a result of higher-than-expected tax  collections, a $977 million surplus *by the time the current two-year  budget cycle ends in June 2015.*

And from the linked pdf:

Early each year, this office conducts a review of the status of the state's general fund and presents its findings to the Legislature. In even-numbered years, the analysis includes an examination of economic forecasts and tax collection and expenditure data of the current fiscal year, and *projections* for each fiscal year of the current biennium. We have now completed that review.
Based upon our analysis, we *project* the closing, gross general fund balance at the end of this biennium (June 30, 2015) to be $1,041.6 million. This is $911.9 million above the $129.7 million balance that was estimated prior to our review. The estimated $129.7 million balance includes all bills enacted to date in this legislative session (through 2013 Act 116).
The additional $911.9 million is the net result of: (1) an $892.7 million increase in estimated tax collections; (2) an $18.4 million decrease in departmental revenues; (3) a $21.6 million decrease in sum sufficient appropriation expenditures; and (4) a $16.0 million increase in estimated lapses to the general fund.
The following table reflects the general fund condition statement, which incorporates our revenue and expenditure *projections.*


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## P@triot (Mar 29, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
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We all know the answer to both - we became a spending nation (tax & spend or borrow and spend) with the rise of the cancer known as liberalism.

Barack Obama and the Dumbocrats collapsed the world economy when they took over in 2009.

Any other questions?


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## P@triot (Mar 29, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
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The funny thing with you junior is that it's *not* an act - you're just perpetually dumb. I've posted the quotes over and over and over and you're incapable of showing me where it says "projected" in the quotes that I used.

Furthermore, you're incapable of explaining how it matters that it is "projected" if in fact it is - it still illustrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that liberal policy creates poverty and misery while conservative policy creates prosperity.

Gave over junior.


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## edthecynic (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
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Do you really think you can turn the cancer of "borrow and spend" Reaganism into Liberalism???  It was St Ronnie who turned this nation from a creditor into a debtor, and you know it.


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## P@triot (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > When caught lying, the Right play dumb because they have convinced themselves if they are too STUPID to know they are lying, then they are telling the truth, ala St Ronnie.
> ...



It's amazing how quickly the Dumbocrats run when you post video which is difficult for them to twist and distort...


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## edthecynic (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> edthecynic said:
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Just because you left out where your source said they were projections does not mean your source didn't say they were projections. Your quote did not say they were "real" either!

And "projections" are just that and things can change, they can be fallen short or exceeded. Remember when the GOP Congress proudly PROJECTED surpluses as far as the eye can see during the Clinton administration but then the Bush Regime came in and it has been nothing but deficits as far as the eye can see. Projections are not always realized.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
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Yea, one. Let's be clear...YOU are you saying the world economy didn't collapse before Obama took office?


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## P@triot (Mar 29, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
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Yes - lets be _clear_...

*Unemployment*
2008 (final year of George Bush): 5%
2009 (first year of Barack Obama): 7.8%

*Homes*
2008 Median Home Sale Price (final year of George Bush): $232,400
2009 Median Home Sale Price (first year of Barack Obama): $208,600

*Gasoline*
2008 (final day of George Bush): $1.85
2014 (today): $3.69

*National Debt*
2008 (final year of George Bush): $10 trillion
2014 (today): $17 trillion

A scorecard on the economy under Barack Obama | PolitiFact

Barack Obama Economy


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## edthecynic (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
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Notice the dishonesty of the Right! For UI and Homes the Right use the yearly average, but for Gas suddenly the yearly average is worthless. Why, because it doesn't look good for the Bush Regime.

*Gasoline*
2008 (final year of George Bush): $3.16
2009 (first year of Barack Obama): $1.74


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## Bfgrn (Mar 29, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
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You truly are a HACK. You would charge the ER doctor with murder if he didn't save the life of a shooting victim wheeled into the operating room. The financial crisis TOTALLY OCCURRED under Bush. NONE of it occurred under Obama...ZERO, ZILCH, NADA...

Timeline: Key events in financial crisis

The Financial Crisis Timeline

Starting in 2007...


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Mar 29, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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True. 

The OP is once again confirmed to be an ignorant partisan hack.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 29, 2014)

Timeline


























Timeline For "Bail-In" Of G20 Banking System


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## P@triot (Mar 30, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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When the doctor never graduated medical school, is unqualified to be a doctor, spit in the wound to infect it, then packed the wound with dirt to lock in the spit, pushed LSD instead of morphine, puts the patient on carbon dioxide instead of oxygen, and then forced everyone out of the room and never came back because he wanted to play basketball and travel the world on vacation (as Barack did when he skipped EVERY jobs council meeting he scheduled) - then yes, I would rightfully charge the ER doctor with murder because _he_ negligently CAUSED the death, *not* the shooting.

The only partisan HACK here is *you*. And the best part is, you _know_ it. That's why you're always so angry. Because you know the facts show that the Dumbocrats policy bankrupts and collapses cities (Detroit), states (California), and nations (Cuba, U.S.S.R., Camnodia, Greece, U.S.A..). Meanwhile, the facts show that conservative policy creates prosperity U.S. (when Dumbocrats are not in charge), Wisconsin, Texas, North Dakota.



Bfgrn said:


> The financial crisis TOTALLY OCCURRED under Bush. NONE of it occurred under Obama...ZERO, ZILCH, NADA...



The numbers there are listed and backed up with links. If Bush collapsed the world economy in 2007, how do you explain that unemployment was 5% for most of his term, and topped out somewhere around 7.5% while it hit 10% under Barack Obama and has never been below 8% (except when Obama provides false numbers to the people as the press PROVED he did before the election)? How do you explain that gas was a $1.84 per gallon the day Obama was inaugurated and stands at an astounding $3.69 a gallon now (or a staggering 95%).

Sorry chief, but things were fine until the self-professed communist came in and told the world "....*and I think the way you do that is to spread the wealth*" and then started spreading the wealth, creating collapse. And just as communism collapsed the former U.S.S.R., it collapsed the world economy because Barack is an ignorant idealist who was brainwashed by daddy.


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## P@triot (Mar 30, 2014)

edthecynic said:


> Rottweiler said:
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On the day Barack Obama took office, has was $1.84 per gallon junior. That is an indisputable *fact*. It was at that price because Bush opened the reserves (it's called supply and demand). Obama then took typical Dumbocrat action and reversed course - blocking drilling and closing the reserves. He created a shortage and now prices are 95% higher than the prices he was handed on the first day in office.

*These are the facts. And they are indisputable.*


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## P@triot (Mar 30, 2014)




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## JoeB131 (Mar 30, 2014)

So, Poodle, how come Romney lost if all these things are true. 

Oh, wait, don't tell me. You're answer will involve the words 

Communist
Moocher
Low information voter (you heard that on Talk Radio) 

Voter Fraud (the darkies got to vote!)
The Lamestream Media. 

Okay, now that we got that out of the way, here's the reality.  Most AMericans realized how badly Bush fucked up everything. SO why the Democrats were proud to parade Bill Clinton at their convention, the GOP hid Bush like the uncle who got sent to prison. 

And all Romney had to offer was more of the same shit that got us into this mess to start with.  More war, more tax cuts for rich people, more deregulation.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 30, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
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If things were 'fine' before Obama, WHY did Congress pass the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) in 2008? 

Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.

If things were 'fine' before Obama, WHY did we lose 2.6 million jobs in 2008?

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

"We're seeing a complete unraveling of the labor market and are on track for getting beyond 10% unemployment," said Lawrence Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute.

The total number of unemployed Americans rose by 632,000 to 11.1 million.

November, in which 584,000 jobs were lost, and December marked the first time in the 70-year history of the report in which the economy lost more than 500,000 jobs in consecutive months.














You have moved way beyond a hack. You are an ignorant moron who can't face the truth.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 30, 2014)

How state governors rank on their job-growth record

On Numbers has ranked 45 of the nation's 50 governors according to their records for private-sector employment growth. The five governors who took office earlier this year have not been ranked.

#40


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## The Rabbi (Mar 30, 2014)

bfgrn said:


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ironic!


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## Moonglow (Mar 30, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Moonglow said:
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> 
> > Why sure, It's all the democrats fault.......short on economic history so just cut to the chase and try not to blame it on auto execs.....
> ...



Not really, there were just short sighted in planning future trends of fuel cost.


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## P@triot (Mar 30, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> If things were 'fine' before Obama, WHY did Congress pass the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) in 2008?



Because government was lead by idiot liberals. You had Dumbocrat Nancy Pelosi controlling the House, Dumbocrat Harry Reid controlling the Senate, and RINO George W. Bush controlling the White House.

Thank you for proving for me once again the failed policies and spread-the-wealth socialism of the Dumbocrat Party.



Bfgrn said:


> If things were 'fine' before Obama, WHY did we lose 2.6 million jobs in 2008?



Because government was lead by idiot spread-the-wealth, tax-and-spend-until-you-collapse Dumbocrats.

But more importantly, if things were not fine and we lost sooooo many jobs in 2008, why was unemployment *lower* back then than it has _ever_ been under Obama? 



Bfgrn said:


> You have moved way beyond a hack. You are an ignorant moron who can't face the truth.



Projection - it's what you Dumbocrats do best. The facts have shown you're a partisan hack. The facts have shown the policies you support collapsed the world economy. And the best part is, we both know that you _know_ it too. It's why you're so angry.

$7 trillion in reckless deficit spending under Barack Obama. Higher unemployment under Obama. More people in poverty under Obama. More people of food stamps than any point in U.S. _history_ under under Obama. And oh yeah, all of this after the Dumbocrats have spent over $2 trillion on their "War on Poverty" (which was designed to grow poverty and keep people there - and has been successful at _that_).


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## Pogo (Mar 30, 2014)

To the partisan hack it's always somebody else's fault.

"X happened because your guy was in the White House!"
"What about Y?  _Your_ guy was in the White House then?"
"That's because your people were in the Congress!!  What was he supposed to do?!?" 

Waiter!  More whine!


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## Bfgrn (Mar 31, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > If things were 'fine' before Obama, WHY did Congress pass the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) in 2008?
> ...



Listen up sonny boy...I have been around since Harry S. Truman was in the White House. When liberals ran this country there was no debt to speak of. President Kennedy and Johnson faced the possibility of budget SURPLUSES. I lived through a good portion of the liberal era that started with the New Deal and ended with the Great Society. It was America's finest moment. It was an era with huge economic growth and shared wealth, fantastic successes in technology, vast expansion of citizen freedoms and liberties and the growth of a middle class that defined this country and made America the 'city on the hill', the envy of the world.

The last 30+ years have been dominated by 'conservatives'. It has been the biggest FAILURE in American history. It has been a negative mirror image of the liberal era. We now lead the world only in the dubious like incarcerating human beings, killing innocent people and launching Hirohito sneak attacks on sovereign nations.

The right wing cancer started with Richard Nixon and metastasized under Ronald Reagan, the traitor.

The run up to the collapse or our economy was almost a full DECADE of Republican control of the White House, the Senate and the House. The blame falls squarely on conservatives.



Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)


Old give 'em hell Harry had you right wing scum figured out way back in 1948...

"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
President Harry S. Truman - October 13, 1948


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## P@triot (Apr 5, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



So in the face of indisputable facts, all you have are quotes from people backed up by _nothing_? The fact is, Dumbocrats are the one's who make American farmers go broke by taxing them to death and regulating them into the grave.

*The Obama Administration fervently opposes voter ID but insists that the nations farmers prove the identity of every chicken*

The fact is, Dumbocrats like you cry for more money but are never willing to contribute to society. Instead, like the greedy parasites that you are, you sit on your fat asses demanding more money, benefits, and programs provided to you by government at the barrel of a gun. If you want "educational opportunity for all" why don't *you* voluntarily donate *your* money for teachers and schools? Too greedy? Too cheap? Too selfish? All of the above?

Here's the undeniable reality backed up by facts (instead of quotes of _opinions_): Dumbocrat liberal policy ends in poverty and misery. Cuba has proven that. The U.S.S.R. proved that. Detroit has proven that. In contrast, conservative policy ends with prosperity. Lets review again, shall we partisan hack?

$7 *trillion* in reckless deficit spending under Barack Obama. Higher unemployment under Obama. More people in poverty under Obama. More people of food stamps than any point in U.S. _history_ under under Obama. And oh yeah, all of this after the Dumbocrats have spent over $2 trillion on their "War on Poverty" (which was designed to grow poverty and keep people there - and has been successful at _that_).


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## Pogo (Apr 5, 2014)

Rottweiler said:


> like the greedy parasites that you are, you sit on your fat asses demanding more money, benefits, and programs provided to you by government at the barrel of a gun.



Link?




Didn't think so.


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## Howey (Apr 5, 2014)

All this is is an election year gimmick aimed at drawing voters. Walker's paying for his tax cuts not through the surplus as he claims but by deferring payments on debt and a rumored increase in the state sales tax to *13%*.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

btw...Wisconsin isn't the only state enjoying a windfall because of Obama's economic growth. Hopefully, all of them, particularly Wisconsin, don't repeat the greedy republican ways of yesteryear.

States pursue tax cuts as recovery takes hold


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## The Rabbi (Apr 5, 2014)

Howey said:


> All this is is an election year gimmick aimed at drawing voters. Walker's paying for his tax cuts not through the surplus as he claims but by deferring payments on debt and a rumored increase in the state sales tax to *13%*.
> 
> It's all smoke and mirrors.
> 
> ...



Howey, you get pwned in every thread.  Have you considered giving up this posting gig and concentrating on what you know best, like cock rings?


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## Pogo (Apr 5, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> > All this is is an election year gimmick aimed at drawing voters. Walker's paying for his tax cuts not through the surplus as he claims but by deferring payments on debt and a rumored increase in the state sales tax to *13%*.
> ...



"pwned" huh?







​


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## The Rabbi (Apr 5, 2014)

Pogo said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > Howey said:
> ...



Butt hurt much?


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## Pogo (Apr 5, 2014)

I got negged in under _ten seconds_ when I first did that.  No one has ever touched that response time.  Not even close.

_That's_ what I call butthurt.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 5, 2014)

Pogo said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > like the greedy parasites that you are, you sit on your fat asses demanding more money, benefits, and programs provided to you by government at the barrel of a gun.
> ...



Guess you havent heard: the debate is over

The right has taken its ball and gone home. 

The OP is the classic conservative, fearful of diversity, dissent, and expressions of individual liberty.


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 5, 2014)

Rottweiler says he is a conservative yet continues to post in losertarian language.


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## P@triot (Apr 6, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



More projection from the Dumbocrats...about the _only_ thing they do well. Here is a man who was pushed out of his job by intolerant liberals because he made a legal political contribution in his private life...

An American nightmare: Glenn reacts to the resignation of Mozilla CEO over support of Prop 8

Considering you advocate for government control over everything, I'd say it's clear you are the only asshole here who is fearful of diversity, dissent, and expressions of individual liberty (such as the one Mr. Eisn made )


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## P@triot (Apr 6, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Rottweiler says he is a conservative yet continues to post in losertarian language.



Of course a radical libtard Dumbocrat would believe that anything which is not communist rhetoric is "libertarian language".

I wonder if you could quote for us one of my supposed "libertarian language" posts so that the rest of us could be doubled-over in laughter (in case you haven't realized it yet, you're basically the jester of USMB).


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## P@triot (Sep 12, 2018)

Pogo said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, don't blame me because you're lazy _and_ disorganized. Prepared people can evacuate in under 20 minutes and still have time to make a snack.
> ...


As I’ve argued with the ignorant dill-hole Pogo for years now - Hurricane Katrina was no last minute surprise. Everyone had a notice more than 4 days in advance. Being the childish ignorant dill-hole, he attempted to lie about it.

Well Pogo - here is some _really_ bad news for you. This article was from Monday (09/10/18) warning of the hurricane set to hit this Thursday (09/12/18). It’s a warning 4 days in advance, just as I stated about Katrina. Of course, you’re next pitiful and pathetic lie will be that we didn’t have these capabilities “back then”. Well, in 2005 we absolutely had sophisticated satellites/radar/etc. Everyone knew about Hurricane Katrina 4 to 5 days in advance. It’s just that lazy liberals like yourself refused to take any personal responsibility.

Proved you *wrong* yet again (I do _every_ time)! How does it feel to be my personal bitch on USMB?

  

Hurricane Florence Could Drop 40 Inches of Rain When It Makes Landfall in North Carolina


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## Wry Catcher (Sep 12, 2018)

P@triot said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



LOL, your final comment, "It’s just that lazy liberals like yourself refused to take any personal responsibility" is typically divisive and posted with no probative evidence.

More than likely it is those who spend their days smoking and watching Fox News and/or listening to Limbaugh & Co., aka poorly educated conservatives.   To paraphrase Pogo, _we have met the enemy and they is you_.


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## Pogo (Sep 12, 2018)

Wry Catcher said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Buttsoiler just woke up in desperation mode.  Went crawling around USMB to find everywhere I posted in the last FIVE YEARS and dumped this same shit, verbatim, in all of them.  And promptly got his ass reported for it.

I should sub-let all this space in his head he gives me.  You could store a LOT in there, it's so empty.


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## doesanyoneknowmyname (Sep 14, 2018)

P@triot said:


> If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> 
> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walker&#8217;s $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of Wisconsin&#8217;s projected $977 million surplus to pay for property and income tax cuts.
> 
> ...




gosh
conservatives are ignoring liberal cities that are doing well and focusing on the 1 city run by democrats  that is failing.  And using THAT 1 example as evidence that ALL democratic policies are FAILURES!  Even though the most successful states in the union are blue states like California.....Meanwhile....they COMPLETELY IGNORE all the RED STATES that are the fiscally WORST states in the country! (alabama, louisiana, mississippi)......Well...I'm not surprised.  It is a regular tactic of the deranged conservative..


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## doesanyoneknowmyname (Sep 14, 2018)

P@triot said:


> If 60 years of complete and total Democrat control bankrupting Detorit and collapsing it didn't prove that liberal ideology is a failed ideology filled with failed policies (and make no mistake, it _did_) then this certainly ends the debate:
> 
> Limbaugh cited an Associated Press report run Wednesday on page A14 of the New York Times about the Wisconsin Assembly passing Walker&#8217;s $504 million tax-cut plan. As previously reported by TheBlaze, Walker intends to use part of Wisconsin&#8217;s projected $977 million surplus to pay for property and income tax cuts.
> 
> ...




4 of the top 5 state economies in the US are BLUE STATES.


5 of the bottom 5 economies are RED states.


now.....keep talking about detroit........


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## P@triot (Sep 14, 2018)

doesanyoneknowmyname said:


> gosh conservatives are ignoring liberal cities that are doing well and focusing on the 1 city run by democrats  that is failing.  And using THAT 1 example as evidence that ALL democratic policies are FAILURES!


There are no liberal cities that are "doing well". None. San Fransisco is _literally_ covered in human feces. Los Angeles has more gangs and drugs than most nations. Chicago has 18 deaths or more _every_ weekend (it approaches 40 or more on a "holiday weekend").

You can't show us a single liberal city that is "doing well". DeanRD attempted to claim in another thread that the "poorest *counties*" are in right-wing *states*. Which is comical. The poorest counties are in left-wing *counties*. He didn't want to compare apples-to-apples. So I did it for him and humiliated him. The poorest countries in the U.S. were ALL in left-wing counties. Here are the results for you to see for yourself: #107, #109, #111.


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