# The Myth of McCarthyism



## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

*Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.

Communism - McCarthy Was Right


Outrageously even to  this day the democats/liberals/socialists/marxists/communists continue to villify and lie about him despite the fact they should know better and perhaps they do but as per sop they never let the truth get in the way of their narrative.

*
The Vindication of Joseph McCarthy - The Objective Standard



*On This Day: McCarthy warns of communists in State Department*


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## skews13 (Feb 9, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
> 
> Communism - McCarthy Was Right
> 
> ...



Well, lets see. Trump giving Russians classified information, and selling out the US to an ex Soviet KGB agent. Then sends love letters to North Korea. Then A plane load of Republican Senators fly to Russia on the 4th of July to sell out the US to the Russians. Now we have Republican Senators openly taking money from Russian oligarchs, and brazenly allowing the Kremlin to interfere in our elections. Then the Secretary of State gives Crimea away to the Russians, and tells our ally, sorry, thats just the way it is, and lets Belarus have all of the Ukraine oil they want.

Damn. You're right. the commies have infiltrated the government. And it's so complete, they have an asset in the White House, assets in the State Dept., and assets in the Senate. They have effectively co opted the entire Republican party.


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## pknopp (Feb 9, 2020)

He wasn't right any more than the (D)'s were right in blaming the Russians for them running an absolutely awful candidate.


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## LuckyDuck (Feb 9, 2020)

skews13 said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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WOW!!!!  Do you live in a fantasy world!
The last I checked, it's the "Socialist" left who were the threat to the USA's freedoms.


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## depotoo (Feb 9, 2020)

skews13 said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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Oh my, you have it bad.


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## occupied (Feb 9, 2020)

LOL this is one of the oldest troll threads on the internet. A variation on the "Hitler did nothing wrong" troll. People who post it know McCarthy was a toxic slime mold the same as anyone.


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## mikegriffith1 (Feb 9, 2020)

I started a thread on this subject in the History forum titled "Joseph McCarthy Was Right in Most Cases." It provides another example of the abject inability of liberals to deal with facts that destroy their cherished myths.


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## pknopp (Feb 9, 2020)

mikegriffith1 said:


> I started a thread on this subject in the History forum titled "Joseph McCarthy Was Right in Most Cases." It provides another example of the abject inability of liberals to deal with facts that destroy their cherished myths.


 
Right in most cases? What's that mean? He put his trash out on the correct day?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2020)

pknopp said:


> He wasn't right any more than the (D)'s were right in blaming the Russians for them running an absolutely awful candidate.


Both statements are lies, of course.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 9, 2020)

occupied said:


> LOL this is one of the oldest troll threads on the internet. A variation on the "Hitler did nothing wrong" troll. People who post it know McCarthy was a toxic slime mold the same as anyone.


People who know the facts know that all the leftwing attacks on McCarthy were wrong.  Soviet spies were probably behind all of them.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

THE AMERICAN left has an unexamined past. Like the French conservatives, who went into deep denial about their collaboration with the Nazis a half century ago, American leftists and some of their liberal allies have refused to sort out their own intimate connections with Marxist-Leninism in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...he-left/a0dc6726-e2fd-4a31-bcdd-5f352acbf5de/


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

WASHINGTON -- Although Joseph McCarthy was one of the most demonized American politicians of the last century, new information -- including half-century-old FBI recordings of Soviet embassy conversations -- are showing that McCarthy was right in nearly all his accusations.

"With Joe McCarthy it was the losers who've written the history which condemns him," said Dan Flynn, director of Accuracy in Academia's recent national conference on McCarthy, broadcast by C-SPAN.


Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts -- FBI recordings of Soviet embassy communications between 1944-48 -- the record is showing that McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network.


Spies Who Spilled Atomic Bomb Secrets  | History      | Smithsonian Magazine


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## RandomPoster (Feb 9, 2020)

Joe McCarthy was an American hero.  Trump should award him a Presidential Medal of Freedom.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

Only in 1995 did the United States government officially reveal the existence of the super-secret Venona Project. For nearly fifty years American intelligence agents had been decoding thousands of Soviet messages, uncovering an enormous range of espionage activities carried out against the United States during World War II by its own allies. So sensitive was the project in its early years that even President Truman was not informed of its existence. This extraordinary book is the first to examine the Venona messages—documents of unparalleled importance for our understanding of the history and politics of the Stalin era and the early Cold War years.

Hidden away in a former girls’ school in the late 1940s, Venona Project cryptanalysts, linguists, and mathematicians attempted to decode more than twenty-five thousand intercepted Soviet intelligence telegrams. When they cracked the unbreakable Soviet code, a breakthrough leading eventually to the decryption of nearly three thousand of the messages, analysts uncovered information of powerful significance: the first indication of Julius Rosenberg’s espionage efforts; references to the espionage activities of Alger Hiss; startling proof of Soviet infiltration of the Manhattan Project to build the atomic bomb; evidence that spies had reached the highest levels of the U.S. State and Treasury Departments; indications that more than three hundred Americans had assisted in the Soviet theft of American industrial, scientific, military, and diplomatic secrets; and confirmation that the Communist party of the United States was consciously and willingly involved in Soviet espionage against America. Drawing not only on the Venona papers but also on newly opened Russian and U. S. archives, John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr provide in this book the clearest, most rigorously documented analysis ever written on Soviet espionage and the Americans who abetted it in the early Cold War years.


Joe McCarthy, Donald Trump, the Venona Papers, and the Public Record - HOW TO BE YOUR OWN DETECTIVE


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## Flopper (Feb 9, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
> 
> Communism - McCarthy Was Right
> 
> ...


*McCarthyism* was the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence.  Guilt by association was the rule of day.   Hundreds of Americans were accused of being "communists" or "communist sympathizers"; they became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private panels, committees, and agencies.  Suspicions were often given credence despite inconclusive or questionable evidence, and the level of threat posed by a person's real or supposed leftist associations or beliefs were often wildly exaggerated. Books that might be interpreted as leftest were pulled from shelves.  Plans for movies that might be viewed as pro-communist were pulled from production or delayed.  Teachers were warned about comments in the classroom that might be considered anti-American.  Americans were encourage to report their friends and neighbors for comments that might indicate a communist leaning.    This was an era when people were punished not necessarily for what they did but for their beliefs and opinions, a sad period for freedom in America.  Thankfully, it only lasted a few years.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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Bullshit!!!

Morons like the above have no problem bowing down to a liberal myth that sacrificed the truth for the benefit of leftwingers etc.etc.  they  need to apologize for all that and recognize Joe McCarthy for his heroism and try and understand  the  calamitous injustice that is currently being inflicted on America...........

I speak of...................The 'racism' hysteria which is currently afflicting America comes from the left of course...as a fanatic political mob sees racists behind every door. Their paranoia is not harmless, as they use the racist bogeyman to intimidate political adversaries – and sometimes erstwhile friends – while seeking to silence political dialogue.

This current insanity  revealed its full absurdity via the ACLU’s Twitter stream, which had the temerity to post a picture of an adorable young toddler holding an American flag and a doll with the tag line “This is the future that ACLU members want.” Because the girl  happens to be blonde and Caucasian, the ACLU was promptly attacked – the ACLU!

Immediately the politically correct rage mob commenced a digital protest led by credentialed injustice professionals such as Professor Nyasha Junior of Temple University who posted, “A white kid with a flag?!” Yes, Professor. In much of America outside of your faculty lounge, young American children waving Old Glory warms the heart and makes us smile rather than prompt thoughts of white supremacy lurking under the sheets.


Come again? This lovely young kid holding a flag equals “white supremacy”? Who even thinks of such things? Answer: the diversity hustlers. Shame on the ACLU, which apparently should have posted a picture of a gender-fluid dark-skinned child, holding a rainbow flag, perhaps with a COEXIST sticker on [gender-neutral pronoun] wheelchair.

Did the ACLU, a group once known for taking brave and unpopular stands, hold its ground or, better yet, simply ignore the online rabble? Sadly, no. The organization shortly responded with a Kermit the Frog image saying “That’s a very good point” and the post “When your followers keep you in check and remind you that white supremacy is everywhere.”


This is not merely social-media silliness  it is insanity and a weapon used cynically and viciously -- little girls are apparently acceptable collateral damage -- by the left to isolate and demonize opponents, and particularly President Trump and his supporters. As msnbc's Donny Deustch said of Trump: “He is a racist -- can we just say it once and for all?” Such accusations are not rare. If I had a dollar for every time the mainstream media accused Trump and his voters of racism, I’d be about as rich as the recent Powerball winner.

 I believe that people of color, for far too long, have been taken for granted by the Democratic Party. I also believe that the Trump movement represents real policy solutions for the woes of poverty and violence that burden too many Afro-American and Latino citizens. . Yes, today’s liberals are quick to use racism’s terms when it suits their purposes.  

One of the main reasons America has succeeded as a country lies is our rejection of the tribalism that afflicts and paralyzes so much of the world. America is an idea, and one open to all who embrace it, regardless of skin color, heritage, or religion. 


Instead of allowing a new scourge, this Racist Scare, to corrode our discourse, we must embrace our common American identity, rooted in our best traditions and elucidated in our founding documents. We should be difficult to offend and slow to accuse others of the disease of prejudice. As the incumbent president of the United States explained in his inaugural address seven months ago: “When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for bigotry.”

_by Steve Cortes, a contributor to RealClearPolitics and Fox News, is the national spokesman for the Hispanic 100, an organization that promotes Latino leadership by advancing free enterprise principles. His Twitter handle is @CortesSteve._


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## MaryL (Feb 9, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
> 
> Communism - McCarthy Was Right
> 
> ...


 I agree to disagree. There was a huge number of Communist infiltrating our country and in our government and McCarthy was right about that. But he overstepped, much like the cancel culture now. Named names and pointed fingers when it wasn't necessarily the case and alienated a hell of a lot of people in the process.  Just like the liberal democrat social justice warriors have done lately.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

MaryL said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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Name me one person that Senator McCarthy falsely accused.

‘McCarthyism’ Reconsidered: The Real Truth About Joseph McCarthy And His Tireless Campaign Against International Communism - Off The Grid News


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## San Souci (Feb 9, 2020)

mikegriffith1 said:


> I started a thread on this subject in the History forum titled "Joseph McCarthy Was Right in Most Cases." It provides another example of the abject inability of liberals to deal with facts that destroy their cherished myths.


Like Alger Hiss ,Whittaker Chambers ,and the Rosenbergs.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

San Souci said:


> mikegriffith1 said:
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> > I started a thread on this subject in the History forum titled "Joseph McCarthy Was Right in Most Cases." It provides another example of the abject inability of liberals to deal with facts that destroy their cherished myths.
> ...



ah hah....I knew some idiot would bring those names up.........the venona intercepts prove they were guilty....gotcha!


Only in 1995 did the United States government officially reveal the existence of the super-secret Venona Project. For nearly fifty years American intelligence agents had been decoding thousands of Soviet messages, uncovering an enormous range of espionage activities carried out against the United States during World War II by its own allies. So sensitive was the project in its early years that even President Truman was not informed of its existence. This extraordinary book is the first to examine the Venona messages—documents of unparalleled importance for our understanding of the history and politics of the Stalin era and the early Cold War years.

Hidden away in a former girls’ school in the late 1940s, Venona Project cryptanalysts, linguists, and mathematicians attempted to decode more than twenty-five thousand intercepted Soviet intelligence telegrams. When they cracked the unbreakable Soviet code, a breakthrough leading eventually to the decryption of nearly three thousand of the messages, analysts uncovered information of powerful significance: the first indication of Julius Rosenberg’s espionage efforts; references to the espionage activities of Alger Hiss; startling proof of Soviet infiltration of the Manhattan Project to build the atomic bomb; evidence that spies had reached the highest levels of the U.S. State and Treasury Departments; indications that more than three hundred Americans had assisted in the Soviet theft of American industrial, scientific, military, and diplomatic secrets; and confirmation that the Communist party of the United States was consciously and willingly involved in Soviet espionage against America. Drawing not only on the Venona papers but also on newly opened Russian and U. S. archives, John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr provide in this book the clearest, most rigorously documented analysis ever written on Soviet espionage and the Americans who abetted it in the early Cold War years.


We Told You So - Secret Venona Intercepts

https://www.amazon.com/Venona-Decoding-Soviet-Espionage-America/dp/0300084625&tag=ff0d01-20


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## MaryL (Feb 9, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


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All of them.Most of them. Anyways.  Communist infiltrators  was a very real thing  then. He  (McCarthy )did this for political reasons  and notoriety, little else. He was onto something though. Little did we know....But that is the  point  of this thread after all.


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## San Souci (Feb 9, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


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Perhaps ya don't get the point. I know goddam well those traitors were guilty.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

San Souci said:


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Sorry...in my haste i did not read you correctly.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 9, 2020)

MaryL said:


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You obviously cannot name one person who was innocent out of all those named by Sen McCarthy....you have obviously bought into much of the McCarthyism myth.....though to your credit you do say ingeneral he was correct as in there were a lot of soviet spies in America.

Also McCarthy was a true patriot and a hero and he now needs to be recognized for his heroism.  Perhaps Trump will get around to that eventually.

You need to read the Venona intercepts as well as the other links regarding how Senator McCarthy was correct...you apparantly  are ignoring most of the evidence presented demonstrating that Senator McCarthy was correct...old prejudices and and false beliefs are difficult to expunge.

Hiss Was Guilty |  History News         Network


McCarthy Vindicated At Last 12/18/2007 McCarthy Vindicated at Last

"...These intercepted cables proved that there were over 350 Americans spying for the Soviets, and enabled investigators to identify about half of them. Joe McCarthy had access to the information contained in the top secret Venona intercepts, access given him by J. Edgar Hoover and others concerned with the extent of Soviet espionage and penetration, but he could not defend himself against charges of recklessly accusing people of being Soviet agents by revealing the source of his information without alerting the Soviets that some of their most important secrets were known to U.S. Intelligence..."


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 10, 2020)

List of Americans mentioned in the Venona Transcripts.


John Abt, attorney and politician**[2]
Solomon Adler, economist**[2]
Rudy Baker, politician**[2][3]
Joel Barr, engineer[2]
Alice Barrows, educator[2]
Theodore Bayer, President, _Russky Golos_ Publishing[2]
Cedric Belfrage, journalist[2]
Elizabeth Bentley, teacher and politician[2]
Joseph Milton Bernstein[2]
Earl Browder,[2] American communist and General Secretary of the Communist Party USA from 1934 to 1945.
Paul Burns**[2][4]
Sylvia Callen**[2]
Virginius Frank Coe[2]
Lona Cohen**[2]
Morris Cohen**,[2] Communist Party USA & Portland Spy Ring member who was courier for Manhattan Project physicist Theodore Hall.
Judith Coplon, Department of Justice employee[2]
Lauchlin Currie,[2] White House economic adviser to President Franklin Roosevelt and director of World Bank mission to Colombia.
Byron T. Darling**[2]
William Dawson,[2] United States Ambassador to Uruguay
Eugene Dennis, politician and labor organizer[2]
Samuel Dickstein, politician and judge**[2]
Martha Dodd**,[2] daughter of William Dodd, who served as the United States ambassador to Germany between 1933 and 1937.
William E. Dodd, Jr., educator; son of William Dodd and brother of Martha Dodd[2]
Laurence Duggan,[2] head of the South American desk at the United States Department of State during World War II.
Eufrosina Dvoichenko-Markov[2]
Nathan Einhorn[2]
Jack Bradley Fahy[2]
Linn Markley Farish, senior liaison officer with Josip Broz Tito's Yugoslav Partisan forces[2]
Edward J. Fitzgerald[2]
Charles Flato[2]
Isaac Folkoff[2]
Jane Foster[2]
Zalmond David Franklin[2]
Isabel Gallardo[2][5]
Boleslaw K. Gerbert[2][6]
Rebecca Getzoff[2]
Harold Glasser,[2] U.S. Treasury Dept. economist, United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA) spokesman.
Bela Gold[2]
Harry Gold,[2] sentenced to 30 years for his role in the Rosenbergs' ring
Sonia Steinman Gold[2]
Jacob Golos,[2] "main pillar" of NKVD spy network, particularly the Sound/Myrna group, he died in the arms of Elizabeth Bentley
George Gorchoff[2]
Gerald Graze**[2][7]
David Greenglass,[2] machinist at Los Alamos sentenced to 15 years for his role in Rosenberg ring; he was the brother of executed Ethel Rosenberg
Ruth Greenglass[2]
Theodore Alvin Hall,[2] Manhattan Project physicist who gave plutonium purification secrets to Soviet intelligence.
Maurice Halperin,[2] American writer, professor, diplomat, and Soviet spy (NKVD code name "Hare").
Kitty Harris[2]
Clarence Hiskey**[2]
Cary Hiles[2]
Alger Hiss,[2] Lawyer involved in the establishment of the United Nations, both as a U.S. State Department and UN official.
Donald Hiss**[2]
Harry Hopkins,[2] One of FDR's closest advisers & New Deal architect, esp. Works Progress Administration (WPA); as a diplomat in charge of relations between FDR and Stalin his name naturally appears on the list.
Louis Horwitz[2]
Bella Joseph**[2]
Emma Harriet Joseph[2]
Gertrude Kahn[2]
Joseph Katz[2]
Helen Grace Scott Keenan[2]
Mary Jane Keeney, librarian[2]
Philip Keeney[2]
Alexander Koral**[2]
Helen Koral[2]
Samuel Krafsur[2]
Charles Kramer, economist[2]
Christina Krotkova[2]
Sergej Nikolaevich Kurnakov[2]
Fiorello La Guardia,[2] mayor of New York City
Stephen Laird[2]
Oscar Lange, economist and diplomat[2]
Richard Lauterbach, employee at _Time_ magazine[2]
Duncan C. Lee[2]
Michael S. Leshing[2]
Helen Lowry[2]
William Mackey[2]
Harry Samuel Magdoff[2][8]
William Malisoff, owner and manager of United Laboratories[2]
Hede Massing**[2]
Robert Owen Menaker[2]
Floyd Cleveland Miller[2]
James Walter Miller[2]
Robert Miller**[2]
Robert G. Minor,[2] Office of Strategic Services, Belgrade
Leonard Emil Mins[2]
Nichola Napoli[2]
Franz Neumann**[2]
David K. Niles
Eugénie Olkhine[2][9]
George Oppen**[2]
Mary Oppen**[2]
Frank Oppenheimer**[2]
Julius Robert Oppenheimer,[2] Scientific director of the Manhattan Project and chief advisor to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission.
Nicholas V. Orloff[2]
Edna Margaret Patterson[2]
William Perl[2]
Victor Perlo[2]
Vladimir Aleksandrovich Posner, United States War Department[2]
Lee Pressman[2]
Mary Wolfe Price[2]
Bernard Redmont**[2]
Peter Rhodes[2]
Stephan Sandi Rich[2]
Kenneth Richardson, World Wide Electronics[2]
Samuel Jacob Rodman, United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration[2]
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, President of the United States, his name appears on the list under the code name "capitan". (Winston Churchill's codename was "boar."[2]
Allen Rosenberg[2]
Julius Rosenberg,[2] United States Army Signal Corps Laboratories, executed for role in the Rosenberg ring
Ethel Rosenberg,[2] executed for role in Rosenberg ring based on testimony of her brother, David Greenglass
Amadeo Sabatini[2]
Alfred Epaminodas Sarant[2]
Marian Miloslavovich Schultz[2]
Milton Schwartz[2]
John Scott, journalist[2]
Ricardo Setaro[2][10]
Charles Bradford Sheppard, Hazeltine Electronics[2]
Abraham George Silverman[2]
Nathan Gregory Silvermaster,[2] U.S. War Production Board (WPB) economist and head of a major ring of spies in the U.S. government.
Helen Silvermaster,[2] Leader of the American League for Peace & Democracy and the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties.
Morton Sobell[2][11]
Jack Soble[2]
Robert Soble[2]
Johannes Steele[2]
I. F. Stone,[2] Investigative journalist whose newsletter, I. F. Stone's Weekly, was ranked 16th out of 100 by his fellow journalists.
Augustina Stridsberg[2]
Anna Louise Strong[2]
Helen Tenney**[2]
Mikhail Tkach, editor of the _Ukrainian Daily News_[2]
William Ludwig Ullmann[2]
Irving Charles Velson[2]
Margietta Voge[2]
Henry A. Wallace
William Weisband**[2]
Donald Wheeler[2]
Maria Wicher[2]
Harry Dexter White,[2] Senior U.S. Treasury department official, primary designer of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
Ruth Beverly Wilson[2]
Ignacy Witczak**[2][12]
Ilya Elliott Wolston[2]
Flora Don Wovschin[2]
Jones Orin York[2]
Daniel Abraham Zaret, Spanish War veteran[2]
Mark Zborovski, anthropologist[2]

I challenge anyone to name one innocent person on this list.


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## MaryL (Feb 10, 2020)

It's clear as day Communism infiltrated every aspect of American culture in the 50's  True, And McCarthy was demagogue. And that my friend, was the over arching issue


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 10, 2020)

MaryL said:


> It's clear as day Communism infiltrated every aspect of American culture in the 50's  True, And McCarthy was demagogue. And that my friend, was the over arching issue




Much more importantly...our government  was infiltrated by Russian Spies...which began back in  the 20's.

Do not forget that during the Great Depression many Americans became enamoured with communism.

McCarthy was portrayed by the media back then as a demagogue and actually still is.

Which of these issues do you believe was the over-arching issue?

Soviet espionage in the United States 


It's Time to See Joe McCarthy For the Hero He Was


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## San Souci (Feb 10, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> MaryL said:
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> ...


Communists always say "Where would the employers be without "workers". Just where in HELL would the "Workers" be without employers? Ayn Rand wrote about this.


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## MaryL (Feb 10, 2020)

Not a dig fan of echo chambers, either. Stalin and Mao slain way more people that Hitler. Sobering fact #27.2 And Berine Sanders wants to put US in gulags, because some idiots that he hired  thinks they weren't  that bad.... Lets see the same Sanders that has 3 fucking houses, The one that was sued by his employees  because they didn't get paid minimum  wage even, And we have homeless people begging on the streets. Sanctuary cities, anyone?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


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The problem for dumbasses like you is that Mccarthy had plenty of evidence.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2020)

MaryL said:


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Wrong.  Everything he said turned out to be right.


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


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You support what McCarthy did but you say nothing to defend his actions.  Surely, you don't support his methods which include severe intimidation, often the threat of prison, and encouraging witness to give false testimony to escape public ridicule.   He often had little or no solid evidence on which to base his claims. The names of many witnesses and suspects were released publicly, resulting in defamation of character and guilt by association.  Careers and reputations were irreversibly damaged. And when all was said and done, there were no convictions for subversion.

Thanks to a 1957 Supreme Court ruling that secures the constitutional rights of witnesses during a congressional investigation, McCarthyism is very unlikely to return to America.  In other words, even though congressional investigations don't take place in an actual court, witnesses cannot be subjected to less-than-ethical interrogation methods.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


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You mean McCarthy used the same methods used in every Congressional hearing?  I don't know how anyone wouldn't object to that!

He released the names of the witnesses?  You mean like Adolph Schiffler does?

They witnesses weren't allowed to take the 5th Amendment?  Why of course the were.

"Convictions for subversion?"  Who said they were on trial for subversion?

So what Constitutional rights did McCarthy deny to any witness?


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## Biff_Poindexter (Feb 10, 2020)

This is why I keep my foot on the neck of these totalitarian morons.....

Because they sit and wait and hope that enough time has passed....and then they try to run out that same ole fascist shit that got rightfully demolished the last time your elder dic suckers tried it....


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 10, 2020)

mikegriffith1 said:


> I started a thread on this subject in the History forum titled "Joseph McCarthy Was Right in Most Cases." It provides another example of the abject inability of liberals to deal with facts that destroy their cherished myths.



What you did was you proved that the Communist and Socialist hunt is just the 3rd Red Scare.  It's another case of, whenever someone disagrees with you you try and force the label of Communist or Socialist on them.  It's not working so good lately.  Now you claim more and more people are becoming Communists and Socialists even though they might be conservatives.  The only thing growing is your definition.  Welcome to the "3rd Red Scare".

And Yes, the MaCarthy one was the 2nd Red Scare.  But it was the first time that someone that high in office tried to make it work.  It failed like the one in 1919 did.  Just like the one we have today.  But the higher and more profile that person driving it makes it just last a bit longer.  It's just about over.


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## BlindBoo (Feb 10, 2020)

"While conservatives have offered a useful corrective to the simplistic standard view of McCarthyism, some have gone further in a quest to reclaim McCarthy as a good guy. The best-known champion of the "McCarthy was right" countermyth is right-wing provocateur Ann Coulter, whose book "Treason" proclaimed that McCarthy was a true hero in the struggle against communism, that no innocent people were victimized, and that the only unjust persecution was that of McCarthy by his left-wing enemies. The same themes were echoed last year in "American Betrayal" by Diana West, which caused some ferocious polemics in the conservative media.

Coulter and West have been harshly criticized by many conservatives and anticommunists, who point out that McCarthyism's excesses damaged not only American democracy but also the anticommunist cause. However, the McCarthy rehabilitation project has plenty of admirers on the right -- ones inclined to believe that modern-day American liberals, including President Barack Obama, are communists in disguise if not outright traitors. Meanwhile, many on the left, such as Yeshiva University historian Ellen Schrecker, continue to treat McCarthy-era communists as misunderstood idealists. Modern-day perceptions of McCarthyism remain colored by our own ideological polarization.

In some ways, the battle between the American left and McCarthyite anticommunism 60 years ago parallels many of today's political conflicts. Each camp ends up hurting its own cause more than its opponents' by descending into groupthink, demonization of "the enemy" and shrill demagoguery."

Young: Sen. Joe McCarthy wasn't totally wrong


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2020)

MaryL said:


> It's clear as day Communism infiltrated every aspect of American culture in the 50's  True, And McCarthy was demagogue. And that my friend, was the over arching issue


The intense rivalry between the two superpowers raised concerns in the United States that Communists and leftist sympathizers inside America might actively work as Soviet spies and posed a threat to U.S. security.  Such ideas were not totally unfounded. The USSR had long carried out espionage activities inside America with the aid of U.S. citizens, particularly during World War II.

A number of actions of government such as Truman's loyalty oath, the presidential order baring federal employment to persons who were members of organizations on the government list of UN-American associations coupled with news of advances in Soviet nuclear arms created a hysteria in the US, know as the "Red Scare".   Many private organization particularly those that did business with the government agreed to root out communist sympathizers.  People were encouraged to speak out against Un-American ideas and root out those that spread them.

In the 1950's the McCarthy Senate Herrings at first looked like a good way to expose communists but as they drug on it became clear that McCarthy's tactics were more UnAmerican than many of those he perused.  Finally, American realized that it was wrong for the government to persecute and destroy the lives of people, not for they did but for what they believed or what they were reported to believe.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MaryL said:
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> > It's clear as day Communism infiltrated every aspect of American culture in the 50's  True, And McCarthy was demagogue. And that my friend, was the over arching issue
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*100 Years Ago, the First Red Scare Tried to Destroy the Left*

Here you thought it was a new idea.  And yet when you look at the underlying driving force you don't find Communists at all.  The 1917 to 1920 Red Scare was actually done by a large bunch of Corporate Giants and their bought and paid for Politicians.  It was against the formation of the Unions.  You see, the 1916/17 National Guard Act could no longer allow the Governors the right to dispatch the State Guard to break up Strikes when the Workers armed themselves to protect themselves from the Corporate bully boys who were also armed.  So they created the first Red Scare.  It would have worked out much better had WWI not come along.  By 1920, a lot of Political Careers were ended over it and the Unions strengthened.  The Troubles and plights you see today that the Unions contend with are a drop in the bucket compared to back then where it was about peoples lives at stake.  

Not much has changed.  We are in the middle of the third Red Scare and it's just about run it's course.


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2020)

BlindBoo said:


> "While conservatives have offered a useful corrective to the simplistic standard view of McCarthyism, some have gone further in a quest to reclaim McCarthy as a good guy. The best-known champion of the "McCarthy was right" countermyth is right-wing provocateur Ann Coulter, whose book "Treason" proclaimed that McCarthy was a true hero in the struggle against communism, that no innocent people were victimized, and that the only unjust persecution was that of McCarthy by his left-wing enemies. The same themes were echoed last year in "American Betrayal" by Diana West, which caused some ferocious polemics in the conservative media.
> 
> Coulter and West have been harshly criticized by many conservatives and anticommunists, who point out that McCarthyism's excesses damaged not only American democracy but also the anticommunist cause. However, the McCarthy rehabilitation project has plenty of admirers on the right -- ones inclined to believe that modern-day American liberals, including President Barack Obama, are communists in disguise if not outright traitors. Meanwhile, many on the left, such as Yeshiva University historian Ellen Schrecker, continue to treat McCarthy-era communists as misunderstood idealists. Modern-day perceptions of McCarthyism remain colored by our own ideological polarization.
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There nothing wrong with exposing contrary opinions and beliefs in the political area.  However, there is a lot wrong with using government to investigate people for such.  It is the right of every American to believe as he chooses and state his or her opinion regardless of what it may be without fear of government censorship nor persecution.  Do you disagree?


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


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Did someone ask you to outline the lies the left has built up around McCarthy?  I think we were all pretty clear on what they were.


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## RandomPoster (Feb 10, 2020)

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  "encouraging witness to give false testimony to escape public ridicule."

  How did McCarthy encourage witnesses to lie?  Do you mean he asked them questions they preferred to not answer truthfully in public?


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2020)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Then that is pretty sad.  I assumed some people believed that McCarthy's motive was actually to catch and convict spies and traders for treasonous acts when in reality it was all about persecuting people for having UN-American ideas and opinions.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2020)

San Souci said:


> mikegriffith1 said:
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> > I started a thread on this subject in the History forum titled "Joseph McCarthy Was Right in Most Cases." It provides another example of the abject inability of liberals to deal with facts that destroy their cherished myths.
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Um, Whittaker Chambers ADMITTED he was guilty, and helped us pursue his fellow spies.


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## Questioner (Feb 10, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
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> Communism - McCarthy Was Right
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Seems that the new McCarthyism these days is the "sexist wacist homophobic CIS white Christian male bigot" stuff that is popular with fools on social media, lol


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2020)

San Souci said:


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Maybe complete sentences would help.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2020)

BlindBoo said:


> "While conservatives have offered a useful corrective to the simplistic standard view of McCarthyism, some have gone further in a quest to reclaim McCarthy as a good guy. The best-known champion of the "McCarthy was right" countermyth is right-wing provocateur Ann Coulter, whose book "Treason" proclaimed that McCarthy was a true hero in the struggle against communism, that no innocent people were victimized, and that the only unjust persecution was that of McCarthy by his left-wing enemies. The same themes were echoed last year in "American Betrayal" by Diana West, which caused some ferocious polemics in the conservative media.
> 
> Coulter and West have been harshly criticized by many conservatives and anticommunists, who point out that McCarthyism's excesses damaged not only American democracy but also the anticommunist cause. However, the McCarthy rehabilitation project has plenty of admirers on the right -- ones inclined to believe that modern-day American liberals, including President Barack Obama, are communists in disguise if not outright traitors. Meanwhile, many on the left, such as Yeshiva University historian Ellen Schrecker, continue to treat McCarthy-era communists as misunderstood idealists. Modern-day perceptions of McCarthyism remain colored by our own ideological polarization.
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If I want to hear what Newsday thinks, I'll go read it myself.  Try having an original thought of your own, instead of regurgitating propaganda at us.


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2020)

RandomPoster said:


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His investigators spread the word, confess to your impure thoughts and words and give us name of others which many did in order to avoid the inquisition.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


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What's pretty sad is that you hear everything as "Whatever I believe is correct, and confirms that I am morally superior to others" no matter how opposite that assumption on your part is.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


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Please try to learn some history that doesn't come from a Hollywood movie.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 10, 2020)

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Yeah, in the face of overwhelming new evidence, your vague, poetic re-assertion that your lies are true will fix things.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 10, 2020)

It is time to examine the new evidence objectively and to reassess McCarthy, his activities, and Soviet espionage penetration of the U.S. government. In so doing we perform an act of justice to a wrongly maligned man, gain greater knowledge of the Cold War’s early days, and sound a warning regarding possible espionage within and against the U.S. government by current or future enemies.

To reassess McCarthy accurately requires knowledge of (1) the murderously evil nature of Communism, (2) the massive Soviet espionage penetration of the U.S. government, and (3) the specifics of numerous cases regarding McCarthy’s efforts to expose that espionage.

Regarding the first of these, readers are encouraged to read my recent essay, “The Socialist Holocaust and its American Deniers,”5 and its sources, especially _The Black Book of Communism, _which provides data taken, in part, from the files of numerous former Communist regimes, including the Soviets. Suffice it to say here that, worldwide, Communism has been responsible for the murder of one hundred million innocent civilians.6 More, it has done so in strict adherence to its cardinal principle: Because members of the owning class cruelly exploit members of the working class, the former must be expunged in ruthless class warfare.

Items two and three—Soviet espionage penetration of the U.S. government and details regarding McCarthy’s efforts to expose it—are the focus of this essay.

*Soviet Espionage Penetration of the U.S. Government*
The Soviets targeted the Communists’ main ideological enemy, the capitalist United States, even during World War II, when the two nations were supposedly allied in a death struggle against fascism. Soviet agents achieved widespread penetration of the American government, spying, stealing secrets, ultimately supplying data enabling Stalin’s blood-drenched regime to develop an atomic weapon years earlier than otherwise.

The story reads like a spy thriller. . . .The Vindication of Joseph McCarthy - The Objective Standard


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Feb 10, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> List of Americans mentioned in the Venona Transcripts.
> 
> John Abt, attorney and politician**[2]
> Solomon Adler, economist**[2]
> ...


Thus, kill a commie for mommy.



.


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> It is time to examine the new evidence objectively and to reassess McCarthy, his activities, and Soviet espionage penetration of the U.S. government. In so doing we perform an act of justice to a wrongly maligned man, gain greater knowledge of the Cold War’s early days, and sound a warning regarding possible espionage within and against the U.S. government by current or future enemies.
> 
> To reassess McCarthy accurately requires knowledge of (1) the murderously evil nature of Communism, (2) the massive Soviet espionage penetration of the U.S. government, and (3) the specifics of numerous cases regarding McCarthy’s efforts to expose that espionage.
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McCarthy didn't do diddly shit in catching spy.  He was driven by a desire to expose people with ideas and opinions that could be interpreted as Communist.   The FBI did the investigations and integrations that lead to convictions.  Hoover did turn over results of investigations to McCarthy in order to conduct his inquisitions.  Most of the people that McCarthy called to testify never did.  They met with investigators and made deals, usually confessing their sins and often naming others avoiding testifying or any criminal charges.  McCarthy wanted celebrities to testify in order to get public notice so most of the little fish were never in hot seat.

What brought McCarthy down was the Army herrings.  By 1954 McCarthy, who was losing the support of many because of his bullying tactics and unsubstantiated charges, finally overreached himself when he accused several U.S. Army officers of Communist subversion. President Dwight D. Eisenhower was fed up and pushed for an investigation of his charges, and the televised hearings exposed McCarthy as a reckless and excessive tyrant who never produced proper documentation for any of his claims. By mid-year, McCarthy was himself being investigated by a republican controlled Senate in a resolution of censure.   
Albert Einstein Typed Letter Signed McCarthy | The Raab Collection


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## eagle7_31 (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


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> ...



Look up A, Mitchell Palmer. AG in  the latter years of  Woodrow  Wilson. in a number of ways he makes McCarthy look  tame. Difference being Palmer had the enforcement arm, whereas McCarthy had just an investigative arm.


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## anynameyouwish (Feb 10, 2020)

skews13 said:


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AND trump pissed all over the Monroe Doctrine by letting putin and russia into Venezuela.

Now putin and russia have a military foothold on our door step.

Thanks to trump and the republicans.


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## Flopper (Feb 10, 2020)

eagle7_31 said:


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thanks


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## bripat9643 (Feb 10, 2020)

anynameyouwish said:


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How is Trump responsible for Russia being in Venezuela?  How do you propose he could have stopped them, a nuclear exchange?


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 10, 2020)

anynameyouwish said:


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?
What military assets do you think Russia has in Venezuela


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 10, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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> > It is time to examine the new evidence objectively and to reassess McCarthy, his activities, and Soviet espionage penetration of the U.S. government. In so doing we perform an act of justice to a wrongly maligned man, gain greater knowledge of the Cold War’s early days, and sound a warning regarding possible espionage within and against the U.S. government by current or future enemies.
> ...




Bullshite.......like so many others you have absorbed the propaganda spread by the liberal media.


_

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President Harry Truman’s Secretary of State at the time, Dean Acheson, was well known as a man sympathetic to Communism and Communists. As far back as the 1930s Acheson had worked as a lawyer on behalf of Stalin’s regime, prior to the diplomatic recognition of the Soviet Union by the United States, and recently he had ignored reports about the Communist Party connections of his protege at the State Department, Alger Hiss. Acheson also had been the chief U.S. advisor at the Yalta Conference, in February 1945, which consigned eastern Europe to Communist rule, and he presided over the drafting of the United Nations Charter. In the State Department Acheson fostered the careers of Communists and stifled the careers of anti-Communists.

Furthermore, as Ohio’s Republican Senator Robert Taft said at the time, “Pro-Communist policies of the State Department fully justify Joe McCarthy in his demand for an investigation.”

*Grand Scale of Subversion*




Franklin Delano Roosevelt (“FDR”)
Communist infiltration of the U.S. government had occurred on a grand scale during the reign of Franklin Roosevelt. Congressman Martin Dies, Democrat of Texas and chairman of the House Committee on Un-American Activities from its inception in 1938 until 1945, had warned Roosevelt in 1940 that there were thousands of Communists and pro-Communists on the government payroll, but FDR refused to take action, saying:

“I do not believe in Communism any more than you do, but there is nothing wrong with the Communists in this country. Several of the best friends I have are Communists. . . .

“I do not regard the Communists as any present or future threat to our country; in fact, I look upon Russia as our strongest ally in the years to come. As I told you when you began your investigation, you should confine yourself to Nazis and Fascists. While I do not believe in Communism, Russia is far better off and the world is safer under Communism than under the Czars.”

Under the circumstances, McCarthy’s charge that there were 57 known Communists in the State Department seems very modest.

*A Maverick for the Truth*

McCarthy had been a maverick from the beginning. In 1949 he had dared champion the cause of German prisoners of war held in connection with the alleged “Malmédy massacre.” In truth, what had happened near the Belgian town of Malmédy in December 1944 was unclear at the time, part of what U.S. General Thomas T. Handy, who in 1949 was the commander in chief of U.S. forces in Europe, called “a confused, mobile, and desperate combat action.” It is known now that a number of American soldiers who had surrendered there to the Germans were shortly thereafter killed in cross fire when their captors, who were marching them to a rear area, were engaged by other U.S. units. When their bodies were found by U.S. forces afterward with their hands tied behind their backs, however, it appeared that they might have been deliberately killed.

After the war, Germans who had taken part in the fighting at Malmédy were turned over to U.S. Army Colonel A.H. Rosenfeld and his Jewish underlings for “interrogation.” The prisoners were arbitrarily reduced to civilian status so that they would not be protected by the Geneva Convention, and brutal torture was used to extract confessions. When 18-year-old prisoner Arvid Freimuth hanged himself after repeated beatings rather than sign a “confession,” the prosecutors were permitted to use as “evidence” the unsigned statement which they themselves had contrived.

McCarthy dared to speak against this officially sanctioned lynching, when almost no one else had the courage to do so. By fearlessly championing the underdogs, the defeated and vilified Germans, and speaking out against the actual atrocities committed by self-righteous aliens in American uniform, the Senator demonstrated the rare moral courage that later propelled him into the forefront of the struggle against Communism.

The Senate Judiciary Committee, chaired by Senator Raymond Baldwin, Republican of Connecticut, was assigned to investigate the charges of torture, but whitewashed them instead. On July 26, 1949, Senator McCarthy withdrew in disgust from the hearings and announced in a speech on the Senate floor that two members of the Committee, Senator Baldwin and Senator Estes Kefauver, Democrat of Tennessee, had law partners among the Army interrogators they were supposedly investigating. This was in several ways a preview of things to come.

The Jews showed instant hostility toward anyone who interfered with their campaign of vengeance against the conquered Germans, and so they began turning their big guns in the media against McCarthy: a December 1949 poll of news correspondents covering the United States Senate already had reporters branding McCarthy “the worst Senator” — a high honor indeed



James Forrestal: a patriot who fought subversion, and who died under mysterious circumstances.
When McCarthy had arrived in Washington as a freshman Senator in 1946, he had been invited to lunch by Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal. McCarthy writes:

“Before meeting Jim Forrestal I thought we were losing to international Communism because of incompetence and stupidity on the part of our planners. I mentioned that to Forrestal. I shall forever remember his answer. He said, ‘McCarthy, consistency has never been a mark of stupidity. If they were merely stupid they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor.’ This phrase struck me so forcefully that I have often used it since.”

Considering the destructive policies that thrived in Washington, McCarthy concluded that to fight Communism effectively it was not enough to denounce Communism in general; anyone — even a Communist — could claim to oppose Communism. The Senator decided that it was necessary to identify those responsible for treasonous policies and then accuse them on the basis of what they actually had done, not on the basis of the ideas to which they paid lip service.

A special investigating subcommittee chaired by Senator Millard Tydings, Democrat of Maryland, was set up purportedly to investigate McCarthy’s claim that Communists and pro-Communists were being harbored in the State Department. In reality, as Tydings himself admitted, the purpose was to silence McCarthy. Tydings boasted, “Let me have McCarthy for three days in public hearings, and he will never show his face in the Senate again.” Tydings’ effort to discredit the upstart patriot would be heavily aided by the major media.

One of the reporters present at the hearings was Elmer Davis, a prominent radio commentator who had been head of the Office of War Information (OWI). McCarthy noted:

“Many of the [principals in the] cases I was about to present had once been employees in the OWI under Davis and then had moved into the State Department. As I glanced at Davis I recalled that Stanislaw Mikolajczyk, one of the anti-Communist leaders of Poland, had warned the State Department, while Davis was head of the OWI, that OWI broadcasts were ‘following the Communist line consistently,’ and that the broadcasts ‘might well have emanated from Moscow itself.’ There could be no doubt how Davis would report the story. . . .

“At one of the other tables I saw [left-wing, muckraking columnist] Drew Pearson’s men. I could not help but remember that Pearson had employed a member of the Communist Party, Andrew Older, to write Pearson’s stories on the House Committee on Un-American Activities and that another one of Pearson’s limited staff was David Karr, who had previously worked for the Communist Party’s official publication, the _Daily Worker_. No doubt about how Pearson would cover the story. . . .

“As I waited for the chairman to open the hearing I, of course, knew the left-wing elements of the press would twist and distort the story to protect every Communist whom I exposed, but frankly I had no conception of how far the dishonest news coverage would go.”

In the case of Owen Lattimore, the testimony of McCarthy’s chief witness, ex-Communist Louis Budenz, was widely misrepresented. Lattimore was a scholar on Far Eastern affairs employed by the State Department as a consultant; he had advised the State Department that Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-Tung was merely “a liberal agrarian reformer” at a time when Washington was still unsure how to react to Mao’s efforts to overthrow the Chinese government. In McCarthy’s words:

“[Budenz] . . . testified that . . . [Lattimore], who had been employed by the government, consulted for years by State Department officials on Far Eastern policy, and looked to by newspapermen and magazine editors for news on Far Eastern trends, had been a member of the Communist Party.”



*McCarthy’s Methods*




Joseph McCarthy speaks on KFAB. According to professor Revilo Oliver, a CIA officer told McCarthy in 1950 “Senator, you said there were 57 known Communists in the State Department. If you had access to the files of my agency, you would know that there is absolute proof that there are ten times that many. But Senator, you do not realize the magnitude and the power of the conspiracy you are attacking. They will destroy you — they will destroy you utterly.”


Make no mistake about it, McCarthy did cause considerable discomfort to some people: to the alien subversives and traitors whose ultimate goal was and still is the New World Order. It was these people who, in their effort to silence McCarthy, ironically characterized him as an enemy of free speech. The First Amendment, of course, had been drafted precisely to protect men like McCarthy, who dared to identify treason in high places.

There were undoubtedly, however, some sincere, patriotic Americans who agreed with McCarthy’s aim of removing Communists from government, but who found his method, with all of its sensationalism and public-relations gimmickry, distasteful. McCarthy’s method was, as he himself explained, a last resort:

“I have followed the method of publicly exposing the truth about men who, because of incompetence or treason, were betraying this nation. Another method would be to take the evidence to the President and ask him to discharge those who were serving the Communist cause. A third method would be to give the facts to the proper Senate committee which had the power to hire investigators and subpoena witnesses and records. The second and third methods . . . were tried without success. . . . The only method left to me was to present the truth to the American people. This I did.”

People who criticized McCarthy’s public accusations merely as being in poor taste clearly did not appreciate the gravity of the situation and the necessity for taking action. Also it should be noted that McCarthy had not wanted to read his original list of 57 subversives publicly, but the Tydings Committee required it of him. According to the _Congressional Record_ of Feb 20, 1950, p. 2049, McCarthy protested on the Senate floor:

“I think . . . it would be improper to make the names public until the appropriate Senate Committee can meet in executive session and get them. . . . It might leave a wrong impression.”

Unfortunately, “the wrong impression” was exactly what the Tydings Committee wished to promote. In other words, contrary to the reputation for “recklessness” that was applied to him, McCarthy exercised his First Amendment right with great care.



In the discrediting of McCarthy, there is no doubt that there was a conspiracy at work. We know this because men who were privy to the conspiracy later wrote books about it. The activities of the conspirators were, of course, necessarily subtle; Eisenhower himself studiously avoided even mentioning McCarthy’s name in public, and the media coverage was almost unbelievably biased. Thus, for the general public, the arrangements which brought down McCarthy were a mystery, though in essence they were very simple: McCarthy was maneuvered into an awkward position, the major media portrayed him as unfavorably as possible, and his colleagues deserted him......sound familiar?  It should.

McCarthy was the one man in Washington, D.C., who bucked the bipartisan pressure to be polite to America’s enemies and to “get along by going along.” He was the one man who took anti-Communism seriously and was willing to do something about it.


The Destruction of Joe McCarthy


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## anynameyouwish (Feb 11, 2020)

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are you playing checkers?

russia plays the long game....

MILITARY ASSETS;

1.  being in venezuela so close to the southern US border
2.  over the next few years we will read reports about them establishing those bases.
3. trump is an asset. He will let them do this and he won't care.


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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I don't think anyone questions the fact that there were many communist in the US as well as many people that believed in socialism.  I have no problem pursuing those that commit treasonous acts against our nation.  They should be treated as any criminal, apprehended, charged, tried, convicted, and punished. However, for government to destroy people lives because of their beliefs and opinions is wrong.  It was just as wrong in the US as it was in Red China and Nazi Germany.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

anynameyouwish said:


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In other woids they have no military assets in Venezuela.  thank-you


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## bripat9643 (Feb 11, 2020)

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If you are a member of the communist party, you are taking orders from Stalin.  You are a traitor.  You sure as hell don't belong in any sensitive government positions.  Getting scum that out of the government is all McCarthy was trying to do.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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Name me on person whose life was unjustifiably destroyed by Joe McCarthy.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 11, 2020)

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They never can because all the people he called before his committee were guilty.


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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Most people would answer that question with the Hollywood Blacklist, but that is just a drop in the bucket.  Many, people were fired from their jobs because of alleged associations with communists, or stating an opinion that indicated sympathy for communists. 

I was a teenager when the McCarthy hearings and the red scare was going on in the 50's.  My high school civics teacher, Mr. Jackson spoke out in class about the McCarthy hearings.  Within a few days, the school board suspended him.  A local newspaper editorial accused him of being a communist and called for the school board to clean our schools of communist sympathizers.  The fact is Mr Jackson was no communist. He just believe what McCarthy was doing was wrong and spoke out against it.  Many people in education were censored or fired.  My mother was teaching at the time and her school principal warned the faculty to be careful what you say in class because you could be reported.  For many people, it was Nazi Germany in America.
How the Red Scare destroyed a small-town teacher - The Boston Globe


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## anynameyouwish (Feb 11, 2020)

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the problem with mccarthyism and todays modern conservative is  that they BOTH are so extreme and deranged that they accuse ANYONE who isn't a diehard conservative christian of being a "commy".


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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I axed for one name of any person whose life was destroyed by Joe McCarthy....instead you come up first with the hollywood blacklist....that was hollywood not Joe McCarthy that did that boyo.  I and many others think that was justified...look at all the treason that is  going on in hollywood now.  If the crackdown on hollywood at that time had been harsher...hollywood might not be in the mess it is today.

Then you cite your high school civics teacher...and the fact the school board suspended him.  For how long?   Was his life destroyed by that?...and again...it was not Joe McCarthy that did that...it was the school board.  

Then you say many people in education were censored or fired....did Joe McCarthy do that?  Of course not....you have no stats and no names.  

Then you ridiculously want to compare that with Nazi Germany???  I think you should talk to some folks who lived in  Nazi Germany.  You are merely going along with the liberal b.s. and the demonizing  of Joe McCarthy.

You talk about the 'Red Scare'---what that really was---people across  America understood that communist and communism was a matter of National Security....and the execution of the Rosenbergs was  just one significant and justifiable episode of dealing with the  communist threat.  

What it all comes down to is that the media managed to demonize Joe and divert America's attention away from the threat posed by Communism and particuarly Stalinist Russia at that time.

   If the left had not managed to intervene in the exposure of communists and convinced the public we had nothing to fear from communists....it is very likely the Korean War would not have happened...Stalin was the one who enabled  that war and he did so knowing full well that the American People would not hold him or Russia accountable...in other words the media's success in convincing the public that we had nothing to  fear played a big role in Stalin's decision to let their proxy N. Korea start a war.

The result of which thousands of American Soldiers died and even worse than that....the concept of 'limited war' was introduced by Truman which resulted in the stalemate in Korea and created the mess there that lingers to  this day....a huge,huge problem and threat to America as we speak....a rogue nation in possession of Nuclear Weapons and the means to deliver them to  America.

Bottom Line:   America was right(at least the people)in perceiving the national threat of communism and particuarly the reality of the danger that Stalin represented. 

 Had not the media been able to destroy Joe McCarthy and mute his mission and more particuarly if the Republican Party had not been cowed by the  media and  instead had supported Joe's efforts to identify and remove from office all of scores of communists who  had infiltrated into our political system...America would be much safer today.


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## anynameyouwish (Feb 11, 2020)

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1. they are there and they shouldn't be

2.  trump is an asset because he SPITS ON THE MONROE DOCTRINE and lets putin into Venezuela

3. history tells us that now that the  russians are IN Venezuela it will take a REAL American President to throw  them out.


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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McCarthy became the spearhead of the movement backed up by Hoover.  The daily broadcast of the hearings and interviews, created near panic conditions with people looking for communist everywhere which is exactly what McCarthy wanted.  He set the stage for witch hunts across American.  Government loyalty boards investigated millions of federal employees, asking what books and magazines they read, what unions and civic organizations they belonged to, and whether they went to church.  Hundreds of screenwriters, actors, and directors were blacklisted because of their alleged political beliefs, while teachers, steelworkers, sailors, lawyers, and social workers lost their jobs for similar reasons. More than thirty-nine states required teachers and other public employees to take loyalty oaths. Meanwhile, some libraries pulled books that were considered too leftist from their shelves. The banned volumes included such classics as _Robin Hood_, Henry David Thoreau’s _Civil Disobedience,_ and John Steinbeck’s _The Grapes of Wrath._  Labor union strikes, civil rights demonstrations, anti-government articles and books, and even the introduction of the Bikini became part of of some communist plot.

Organizations such as the John Birch Society, Anti Zionist League, White Citizens Council, and dozens of anti-labor groups formed an informal network in which the McCarthy people and FBI passed lists of names of people, businesses, and organization that allegedly had ties to the communist party.  Those who refused to cooperate ended up on list.  So most people did cooperate, sometime naming names, agreeing to dismiss certain employees, or just have a talk with influential people in the community.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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You seem to think all that was a bad thing.....the real unfortunate thing about all that is the fact the movement to  root out the reds was undermined and sabotaged by the media.  

We would be much better off today had McCarthy and those who supported him been able to root out the reds.


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## anynameyouwish (Feb 11, 2020)

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Are there any conservatives who do NOT want to destroy the  lives  (or kill) of people simply because they are NOT right wing fascists?


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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It's only bad if you belief the accused have right to defend themselves, that people have the right to free speech, and state their support for any ideology regardless of how unpopular it might be without being attacked and ridiculed by your government.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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Do you know how many Americans were executed during the so called red-scare era?   Go ahead take a guess.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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What you and your ilk  seem unable to grasp is the concept of National Security.

Let me try and explain it in a manner you might be able to understand......every person in America has a right to self defense aka if someone is trying to harm or kill you...by law you have the right to defend your life and limb.

Likewise....any Nation including America has a right to defend it's people ......during WWII would you have advocated that those with the nazi philosophy be protected and even allowed to work in our government?   Do you think they(nazis and nazi sympathizers) should have been allowed to join up with our military forces?

Do you think the Rosenbergs should have been granted immunity instead of being executed?


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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Russia poses no threat to America.......in fact we are going to need them to  be our allies once again as they were during WII....China, N. Korea and muslim terrorists are the real threats to America. 

Thus instead of complaining about Trump striving to improve our friendship with Russia.....everyone should be applauding it.

If China continues to expand their military capabilities....we will be fortunate if we can get Russia to ally with us.

The democrats/liberals/socialists  are only interested in trying to conjure up a non-existent threat from Russia in order to try and use that against Trump..........beyond ridiculous.


It really is so outrageous......these morons go on and on about the red scare of the fifties but now they are trying to whip up fear of Russians....based on what?   Oh my bad....hatred of Trump of course aka Trump Dysfunction Syndrome hereafter known as TDS


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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I think what you can't grasp is that every American has rights guaranteed by the constitution which include the right to freedom of speech without censorship by government nor reprisal for exercising that right.  Even more basic is the human right to believe in whatever ideology you chose.  Only when your beliefs and opinions turn into actions that violate our laws should government intervene.  We commonly refer to this our personal freedoms.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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What if   my ideology is a conviction based on my interpetation of my religion that as soon as I can get into America I will kill as many Americans as I possibly can?

I have no record of crime, there is not any kind of  proof whatsoever that I am a violent person.  In fact I have many friends in America and we all have the same ideology....though most do not share my belief in committing violence in America yet many of them are willing to help me do what I must.

Thus according to your view...I should be allowed into America because I have not yet committed violations of your laws.


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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No.  Our constitution grants very limited rights to foreigners, basally the 5th amendment.  Our laws allow the government to decide who may and may not enter the country.  Any foreigner judged to be a danger can be denied entrance.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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How would I be judged to be dangerous?.....I have no record and there is no kind of evidence that would show I was dangerous.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

and to add to your mis?ery.............say  I am very educated in Nuclear  Technolgy and have been trained in how to build a dirty bomb....do you have any idea what a dirty bomb could do in a city like N.Y.
Even obama said his biggest worfry was the detonation of some kind of nuclear device in NYC.


Yes, Obama Really Is Worried About a Manhattan Nuke


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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If the person is a citizen of a country that does not require a visa, such as Britain and there is no history of violence and there no flag on a passport indicating a possible threat, then it would be very unlikely that immigration would stop him.  The same could be said for a Muslim extremist or a serial killer or any person with a deep hatred of America who has remained closeted with no record.


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> and to add to your mis?ery.............say  I am very educated in Nuclear  Technolgy and have been trained in how to build a dirty bomb....do you have any idea what a dirty bomb could do in a city like N.Y.
> Even obama said his biggest worfry was the detonation of some kind of nuclear device in NYC.
> 
> 
> Yes, Obama Really Is Worried About a Manhattan Nuke


I have no suggestion as how to keep this person out of country.  What do you propose?


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

Flopper said:


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> > and to add to your mis?ery.............say  I am very educated in Nuclear  Technolgy and have been trained in how to build a dirty bomb....do you have any idea what a dirty bomb could do in a city like N.Y.
> ...




We have a huge, huge problem regarding how to keep out those who would  do harm to America....and we have a  equally big problem regarding how to deal  with those already here that are of a suspicious nature and those that are actually very dangerous as it  is known Iran has sleeper cells here already....probably a huge factor in Trumps exercising a lot of caution with Iran....though liberals are now  on his case about all those soldiers that  suffered concussions from the Iranian attack.....seemingly wanting to go to war over that.....forgetting how they voiced extreme fears before Trump was elected that he would lead us into war.

Your honesty regarding this very serious matter is appreciated.  I think Trumps critics should try and put themselves in his shoes.....he has a multidude of extremely serious problems to deal with as well as the democratic party attempting to sabotage and impeach him.

Truly disgraceful how so many dis-respect our President.

How many could deal with all that and still be able to carry on? .Trump deserves much credit....very tough and lots of stamina.


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2020)

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I suspect we will have to deal with terrorism from abroad much the same way we deal with domestic terrorism which is lots of police work and a lot of time and effort.   Although terrorism will always remain a threat, it is far from being a major problem in the US.  In 2018, 32,000 in the world died in terrorist attacks and 11 in the US.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 11, 2020)

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Unfortunately time is on their side and with their increasing knowledge and use of technology we remain vulnerable and the more so  as time goes on.  For the first time in our history a small group of people can conceivably with the use of wmd's destroy this nation.  I am not going to go into details of how it could be done but just remember what the collapsing of a couple of skyscrapers did to America.

Bush wasted the moral superiority he had at the time of the WTC attacks...if bush had been more of a leader with some vision he would  have been able to establish a coalition that would have dealt a crushing blow to islamic terrorism....instead he went after a cheap victory by attacking Iraq...though it turned out not to be so cheap...bush talked the talk aka........if you are not with us--you are against us.

 But he refused to walk the walk.

Also we need to remember that for a very long period of  time we relied on the doctrine of mutually assured destruction....aka...Russia knew that if they launched a nuclear attack ...so would we.  Nobody wanted that...thus the cold war.

The MAD doctrine no longer applies in regards to the Islamic terrorists......they would be quite willing....or at least some of them to  use WMD's despite any sort of reprisal we might or could make. 

Dick Cheney admitted this early on.

Why Mutually Assured Destruction Can No Longer Keep the World from Annihilation


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 12, 2020)

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Rump deserves a nice Prison Cell.  And then he can have all the respect that every other Prisoner receives.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

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Perhaps any is unaware that Venezuela is an entirely separate, sovereign nation, which we do not control.

Or perhaps he thinks anything bad that happens anywhere in this solar system while Trump is President is automatically Trump's fault.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

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What's that crinkling noise?  Oh, it's only any's tinfoil hat.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

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And when you finally, at long last, get around to naming the people Joe McCarthy "destroyed", you get to make that argument.  Until then, it is summarily dismissed.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


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As I understand it, McCarthy initially wasn't after Communist spies per se; he was actually just concerned with people having security clearances who should never have been granted them under the official standards for such things at the time.

Which, of course, fell squarely under the job heading of his Senate committee, so . . .


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


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And most of them appear to have gone on to be adored and lauded by the left, so "destroyed" is a bit inaccurate.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

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Most people would answer that question with the Hollywood Blacklist, because most people are pig-stupid enough not to be able to tell the House from the Senate, and thus babble inanely.  Are you identifying yourself with those abysmal imbeciles?

Whoops, never mind.  You go on to present the "evidence" of an anecdote from someone else's opinion piece, so question answered.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

anynameyouwish said:


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Are there any people in your family with functioning brain stems?  Maybe you could go get one and let him/her talk?


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 12, 2020)

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I think what YOU can't grasp is that a job is not a "right".  Newsflash, puddin':  people get suspended and fired from jobs right now, today, for saying things their employers find objectionable, particularly when they do so on the job.


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## Flopper (Feb 12, 2020)

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Time may or may not be on the side of the terrorist, I don't know but the results from multiple studies over the last 20 years indicate that people capable of cold blooded murder, willing to sacrifice their lives to accomplish their goals and having the skills needed are pretty rare.  Judging from scenes of angry mobs shouting death to America and polls showing as much as 3% to 5% of Muslims favoring violent action, it's easy to conclude that the country and the world is teaming with terrorist ready, willing, and capable of do us great harm.

There is a huge gulf between approval of violent acts and actually performing those acts.  Research has shown that this is do in part because support for violence does not equate with a willingness to engage in violent action.   The two domains overlap, but are separate. Only a minuscule fraction, less than .1% of those holding extremist views will ever proceed to any violent action.

Most who enter the jihadist universe online go no further. The Internet allows vicarious participation. Online wannabes can thump their chest, threaten their foes, exhort each other to action, then turn off the computer and get a beer.  However, for those who are willing to perform terrorist acts, being willing is only one component of being successful as terrorist. 

Homeland Security has found that most would be Muslim extremist willing to commit terrorist acts lack the skills to carry out those acts.  It takes many skills to enter the US, blend into the community, gather intelligence, and carry out the act.  Generally, it requires a network and financial support and networks in the US are very vulnerable to leaks.

What most concerns anti-terrorist law enforcement is the home grown lone wolf who may be a Jihadist, fired employee, mental patient, political extremist, racist, or just a screwed up school kid.  As we have seen they can do a lot of damage and they are almost impossible to detect until they actually act.


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## whitehall (Feb 12, 2020)

Truman and the democrats established "HUAC". Whatever McCarthy's bombastic personality was, he was just a republican senator in a democrat majority. How the hell the crazy left wing media managed to name an entire era after him is anybody's guess.


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## Flopper (Feb 12, 2020)

whitehall said:


> Truman and the democrats established "HUAC". Whatever McCarthy's bombastic personality was, he was just a republican senator in a democrat majority. How the hell the crazy left wing media managed to name an entire era after him is anybody's guess.


For the first 3 years of his term, McCarthy was an unknown to most of the public.  He rose to prominence in February 1950 with his public charge that 205 communists had infiltrated the State Dept. creating a furor and catapulted him into headlines across the country.  Upon subsequently testifying before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, he proved unable to produce the name of a single “card-carrying communist” in any government department. Nevertheless, he gained increasing popular support for his campaign of accusations by capitalizing on the fears and frustrations of a country weary of the Korean War and appalled by communist advances in eastern Europe and China.

The period between 1950 and 1954 is referred to a the McCarthy Era because he was the face the anti-communist movement during this time. Almost daily he released press bulletins with claims of more communistic in government and just about every walk of life.  He spoke on national television and in front of audiences all over the country, naming names of celebrities in Hollywood, top universities, the scientific community, government, and the press who were communist or sympathetic to the communistic cause.  Rarely did he offer any proof to backup his claims.  Many people he named were later called to testify before the House Un-American Activities Committee.

His downfall came in 1953 when he claimed a communist spy ring was operating at the top level of the US army. Later he announced officials close to Eisenhower were involve and that the president was aware it.  This was the straw broke the camels back.  Eisenhower called for a Senate investigation of the Army to determine if there was truth in McCarthy's allegations.  When the investigation ended, McCarthy had not presently a single thread of evidence to substantiate his claims.  On national television, McCarthy's was exposed.  The Republican Senate opened up an investigation of McCarthy and censured him.  Thus ended the McCarthy Era.
“Fire!” - Herblock's History: Political Cartoons from the Crash to the Millennium | Exhibitions - Library of Congress
Joseph McCarthy | United States senator
Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia


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## EvMetro (Feb 12, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
> 
> Communism - McCarthy Was Right
> 
> ...


McCarthy was right.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 13, 2020)

On the 141st birthday of President Abraham Lincoln, on February 12, 1950, Senator McCarthy passionately said:

'The reason why we find ourselves in a position of impotency is not because our only powerful, potential enemy has sent men to invade our shores, but rather because of the traitorous actions of those who have been treated so well by this nation…. This is glaringly true in the State Department. There the bright young men who are born with silver spoons in their mouths are the ones who have been worst…. In my opinion the State Department, which is one of the most important government departments, is thoroughly infested with communists.'

J.Egard Hoover worked very closely with Joe McCarthy and supplied him with most of the information McCarthy used to expose the massive scale of  Soviet espionage in America.

Hoover got much or most of his informtion from the Venona Intercepts and at that time that operation was Top Secret and neither Hoover nor McCarthy could reveal the source of their information.

McCarthy and Hoover were up against the political establishment in Washington which used it's power to destroy McCarthy.

To this day the Senator is still attacked and demonized although the Venona Project is now known to the public and it reveals that McCarthy was right.

Venona project - Wikipedia

McCarthy's Legacy Still Misportrayed by Media After Venona Disclosure

Most-hated senator was right - WND



Exclusive Interview (CNSNews.com) - Journalist and author M. Stanton Evans argues in his new book, "Blacklisted By History," that declassified files from the United States and the Soviet Union prove that Sen. Joe McCarthy was right about the communist threat and that liberals have ignored the evidence and distorted history.


Documents Show Joe McCarthy Was Right, Author Says


M. Stanton Evans has written a Human Events column, “When Conservatives Parrot Liberal Lies about Joe McCarthy,” about how various conservative media personalities and politicians, including former Tennessee Republican Senator Fred Thompson, writers at Breitbart.com, National Review’s Rich Lowry and columnists/TV commentators Charles Krauthammer and George Will, have all used the term “McCarthyism” to refer to the antics of Harry Reid and others on the left. Evans writes that these conservatives “know nothing at all about McCarthy except what the liberals deign to tell them.


The McCarthyism fallacy: By successfully demonizing conservatism, the Left controls all debate – World Tribune: Window on the Real World


It's Time to See Joe McCarthy For the Hero He Was


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## Flopper (Feb 13, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> On the 141st birthday of President Abraham Lincoln, on February 12, 1950, Senator McCarthy passionately said:
> 
> 'The reason why we find ourselves in a position of impotency is not because our only powerful, potential enemy has sent men to invade our shores, but rather because of the traitorous actions of those who have been treated so well by this nation…. This is glaringly true in the State Department. There the bright young men who are born with silver spoons in their mouths are the ones who have been worst…. In my opinion the State Department, which is one of the most important government departments, is thoroughly infested with communists.'
> 
> ...


Most people objected to McCarthy anti-communist work not because of his claims of communist activity in America but rather his methods of investigation. He rarely offered anything approaching proof of subversion or treason.  Typically, what he offered as proof was the admission of a person attending a communist meeting, a person associating with a know communist, hearsay evidence at party or a private conversation, or a newspaper article that names a person a communist.

When McCarthy named over 200 state department people as communist he immediate got Hoover's attention. For a time Hoover did work with McCarthy but if became clear to Hoover that McCarthy was grandstanding.  Hoover made his position clear.  "Don't label anyone as a Communist unless you have the facts," he wrote in Newsweek. "Don't confuse liberals and progressives with Communists. Don't be a party to a violation of the civil rights of anyone. When this is done, you are playing right into the hands of the Communists."
Hoover dismayed by McCarthy's methods / As serious an anti-communist as FBI director was, he felt name-calling senator damaged the cause


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 13, 2020)

What you are not getting is that McCarthy was privy to the evidence collected by the venona project.....but at that time the venona project  was Top Secret because the government did not want the Russians to know what we were doing.

Thus McCarthy's and Hoovers hands were tied as they had the hard evidence of who, what where and when.....yet, they could not reveal their source.

The  NSA's  top-secret program called Venona which intercepted  messages between Moscow and its American agents proves McCarthy and Hoover were correct.

 'The recent publication of a batch of Venona transcripts gives evidence that the Roosevelt and Truman administrations were rife with communist spies and political operatives who reported, directly or indirectly, to the Soviet government, much as their anti-communist opponents charged. The Age of McCarthyism, it turns out, was not the simple witch hunt of the innocent by the malevolent as two generations of high school and college students have been taught.

The sum and substance of this growing body of material is that: Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, executed in June 1953 for atomic espionage, were guilty; Alger Hiss, a darling of the establishment was guilty; and that dozens of lesser known persons such as Victor Perlo, Judith Coplon and Harry Gold, whose innocence of the accusations made against them had been a tenet of leftist faith for decades, were traitors or, at the least, the ideological vassals of a foreign power.

Even moderate politicians who insisted upon the fact -- and argued that these people might have influenced U.S. foreign policy -- were scorned. Sen. Robert Taft of Ohio said, "The greatest Kremlin asset in our history has been the pro-communist group in the State Department who surrendered to every demand of Russia at Yalta and Potsdam, and promoted at every opportunity the communist cause in China until today communism threatens to take over all of Asia." Secretary of State Dean Acheson, a pillar of the establishment, concluded that Taft had joined "the primitives."

The part played by Klaus Fuchs, a high-level physicist, who had worked at Los Alamos, has been known for many years, as has the treason of the Rosenbergs. Nevertheless, for as long as the subject was a hotly-disputed controversy, it was the practice in leftist circles to scoff at the rustic notion that the "secret" of the bomb could be stolen at all. Now we know, thanks to the latest Venona transcripts, that a Harvard-trained physicist named Theodore Alvin Hall was passing secrets about the instrument which changed world politics in the last half of the 20th century.

The disaster brought on by the end of the American atomic monopoly was not lost on the more perspicacious thinkers of the time. In 1947 Bertrand Russell, the British scientist, philosopher and pacifist leader, saw the monopoly as the world's only opportunity for preventing the Soviets from working their will on much of the globe. Noting the nature of "Asiatic communism" (which American liberals were often unable to see in its fullest dimensions), he argued for forcing Moscow into a humane capitulation, even if it took a military ultimatum to do it. But, as the right eye of American politics was blind to fascism in the 1930s, the left eye could not comprehend the nature of communism -- then or later.

And where was Harry Truman? His hagiographers today present him as the plucky, courageous, little guy who stood up to world communism and led America into a new age of cosmopolitan internationalism. It is a description that millions of his adult contemporaries would have found unrecognizable. In fact, the public conduct of the Truman administration became the affirmation of people who said Truman was soft on communism. When Winston Churchill delivered his famous "Iron Curtain" speech at Fulton, Mo. in March 1946, Truman immediately disavowed the former British prime minister. Astonishing as it may seem to those who get their history from movies and TV, the American president invited Joseph Stalin to come to Fulton and give a speech presenting his side of the story. Truman actually offered to send the battleship Missouri to fetch the Soviet tyrant.

Truman also called the investigation of Alger Hiss "a red herring," encouraging the suspicion that the government was not really addressing the communist threat.


Millions of  Americans  of Polish, Hungarian, Estonian, Czech, German, Lithuanian, Latvian and Ukrainian extraction saw nations to which they had the closest emotional ties come under Soviet thrall, sometimes by actual arrangement with the American government or in the face of a murmured pro forma opposition by Washington.

Starting in Wisconsin, whence McCarthy hailed, the political fire storm he ignited burned brightest where these emigre populations were most concentrated. In the eyes of celebrity liberalism, those up in arms about the government's acceptance of communist ambition were the unappetizing people of the dull world of the lower middle class. They were the piano-legged babushkas of American politics, stolid Slavs and such, thick of finger and numb of mind.

In the ongoing kulturkampf dividing the society, the elites of Hollywood, Cambridge and liberal think-tankery had little sympathy for bow-legged men with their American Legion caps and their fat wives, their yapping about Yalta and the Katyn Forest. Catholic and kitsch, looking out of their picture windows at their flocks of pink plastic flamingos, the lower middles and their foreign policy anguish were too infra dig to be taken seriously.

Once a year these people would hold huge Captive Nation Day rallies in cities across the country, which Democratic politicians of taste and sensibility avoided. The only Democrats in evidence at these rallies of unstylish anti-communists were often dismissed by their social superiors as smarmy, corrupt, machine pols. Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belsen, all the Nazi concentration camps were dismantled, but the Gulag grew and left-liberals like California congresswoman Helen Gahagan Douglas and the editors at the New Republic magazine seemed not to care. Working class anti-communist voters did not fail to notice the disdain with which some of the liberal intelligentsia regarded them. The early 1950s, not coincidentally, marked the beginning of the great outmigration of the blue-collar workers from the Democratic Party.

When McCarthy and his congressional allies began to demand testimony from alleged communists about the infiltration that was real but undocumented (the Venona program then being the most sensitive of state secrets), liberals denounced them for "star chamber" tactics''.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...he-left/a0dc6726-e2fd-4a31-bcdd-5f352acbf5de/


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 13, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> What you are not getting is that McCarthy was privy to the evidence collected by the venona project.....but at that time the venona project  was Top Secret because the government did not want the Russians to know what we were doing.
> 
> Thus McCarthy's and Hoovers hands were tied as they had the hard evidence of who, what where and when.....yet, they could not reveal their source.
> 
> ...



You missed the fact that the Venona Program had a solid list of names on it.  The FBI spent a lot of time and resources in compiling those names.  And not everyone on that list were guilty either.  But McCarthy went way beyond that.  He went after everyone that ever publicly disagreed with him and that had nothing to do with the Venonal Program.  He had those people so afraid they were turning each other in and most of it was fabricated.  Finally, Eisenhower had enough when McCarthy and his goons went after his Military Generals who had openly disagreed with McCarthy over various subjects.  They actually convicted very few because there were very few that were actually USSR Agents on the payroll to begin with.  That part of justice was done.  But the rest was just a travesty.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 13, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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> 
> > What you are not getting is that McCarthy was privy to the evidence collected by the venona project.....but at that time the venona project  was Top Secret because the government did not want the Russians to know what we were doing.
> ...



You have made some false  and fallacious allegations regarding Senator McCarthy without any proof or evidence......now of  course we all know you like a useful idiot are just parroting the  liberal left wing narrative put forth by those who wanted to put a stop to the investigation of communists in our government.

We also know the mainstream media gave much  help to  those who  wanted to  stop the investigtion  of  communist influence in our government as well they wanted to put a stop to flushing  out soviet agents that had infiltrated our government.

In the early 1950s, a senator from the state of Wisconsin named Joseph McCarthy took it upon himself to expose the truth about communist infiltration of the United States government. Over a four-year period, Sen. McCarthy relentlessly sought to uncover the truth about why men and women who had been investigated and identified as security risks were allowed to continue in the employ of various bodies and agencies of the federal government, even after their possible connections to international communism had been revealed to their superiors.







Given how pervasive Cold War tensions were at that time, one would expect that Sen. McCarthy’s campaign to discover the truth about communist influence in the U.S. government would have drawn praise and appreciation from all quarters. But such was not the case. On the contrary, right from the beginning, McCarthy was vigorously attacked by the mainstream press who called him crazy, ignorant, boorish, crude, venal, rambling, bullying, opportunistic, obnoxious, dishonest, stupid, obscene, rude, unpleasant, ugly, asinine, ruthless, fascist, and contemptible—and the more attention McCarthy gained, the more vicious his critics in the Fourth Estate became. The American people took his charges seriously and supported his determined attempts to get at the truth, but the media and his political opponents—whose ranks included establishment Republicans as well as Democrats—never let up on McCarthy, and they were not satisfied until they had publicly disgraced him and hounded him into an early grave. In the decades that have passed since Joe McCarthy’s shooting star briefly blazed across the political horizon, the sullying of his reputation has continued unabated, and in the contemporary public imagination McCarthy’s name has come to be synonymous with abuse of power and the persecution of the innocent.

Joseph McCarthy has become arguably the most reviled figure in American history. But the profoundly negative interpretation of his life and his work that has been entered into the official historical record is based on distortions, misconceptions, and misinterpretations that have completely obscured the truth. In fact, the network of communist spies, subversives, and sources of information inside the U.S. government that McCarthy tried so hard to expose really did exist, and its activities were far more extensive and potentially dangerous to the security of the United States than McCarthy’s critics both then and now have ever been willing to admit. The image of Joseph McCarthy that is being passed down from generation to generation is a caricature that bears only a slight resemblance to the real man, and the creation of this caricature provides us with a classic example of how the myth-making machine of academia and the mainstream media continually obscures the truth about important people, events, and episodes in our history.

In May 1957, after the death of Sen. Joe McCarthy, J. Edgar Hoover told former State Department official Harris Houston, widely known among intelligence agents as the leading expert on Communist infiltration of the federal government, that it would be another 50 years before the American people appreciated what Joe McCarthy had done for them.


In his new book "Blacklisted by History, The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies," M. Stanton Evans provides a meticulously documented examination of Joe's attempts to alert the American people to the extent of Communist infiltration of the federal government and other American institutions.

Case by case, Evans reveals the unimpeachable evidence that all of the so-called victims of McCarthy's crusade against Communist subversion — every single one of them — really were Communists and agents of a hostile foreign power: the Soviet Union. Evan's long decades of dogged research should at last put at rest the vicious slanders that plagued Joe McCarthy in his Senate career and followed him into the grave.

‘McCarthyism’ Reconsidered: The Real Truth About Joseph McCarthy And His Tireless Campaign Against International Communism - Off The Grid News


AIM Report: Looney Clooney Smears Senator McCarthy - January A


McCarthy Vindicated at Last


The Fourth Estate: Definition and Origins of the Term


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 14, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
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All of your cites come from ultrarightwing conspiracy sites.  

Here are a few that are NOT from fringe conspiracy sites

How about history.com
*Joseph McCarthy*

How about the Smithsonian
*The Senator Who Stood Up to Joseph McCarthy When No One Else Would*

How about from Senate.gov and the original censure that was ended his career.
*The Censure Case of Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin (1954)*

Have enough?  Not to worry, history will end up treating the 3rd Red Scare no different.  At some point, we are going to have to start cleaning up the people in power that are driving it. We have already started.


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## sparky (Feb 14, 2020)

Flopper said:


> "Don't confuse liberals and progressives with Communists. Don't be a party to a violation of the civil rights of anyone. When this is done, you are playing right into the hands of the Communists."



applies _here _as well...



MacTheKnife said:


> In fact, the network of communist spies, subversives, and sources of information inside the U.S. government that McCarthy tried so hard to expose really did exist



the fact is, the USA's black op's have '_networked_' itself throughout Asia, S.America, and the M.E. for a century would have been exposed along with Joe's findings was a huge factor in it's discrediting



Daryl Hunt said:


> Not to worry, history will end up treating the 3rd Red Scare no different. At some point, we are going to have to start cleaning up the people in power that are driving it



the MIC can't survive w/out foisting a boogyman into the public realm

~S~


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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Everyone knows the msm, leftwingers, democrats, and moderate republican elitists all hated McCarthy nothing new or revealing in your desperate attempt to refute the truth about Joe MdCarthy.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 14, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
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You didn't even bother to read my cites did you.  Notice, no question mark.  Mine came for historical sites.  Yours came from conspiracy sites.  Or from the great Conspirators of Hannity, Rump and Rush.  I believe that most will believe the Historical information over the Conspiracy.  

Do me a favor, let's not take the conspiracy any further or this thread will end up in the Conspiracy section of USMB.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

Regarding the ongoing and unrelenting big-lie attack on Joe McCarthy from the left, a man who was simply doing the job he was elected to do, namely to guard our Constitution and our way of life against a conspiracy to undermine it,


"Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals. ... McCarthy was not tilting at windmills. Soviet spies in the government were not a figment of right-wing imaginations. He was tilting at an authentic Communist conspiracy that had been laughed off by the Democratic Party."



It should be noted that it is certainly a protected right in this country for an individual to be a Communist. It is also a right for an individual to be a Nazi, or a Klansmen. Contrary to leftist agitprop, Joe McCarthy recognized this right, he expressed that recognition on many occasions, and he was quite careful to play by the rules in his investigation of government subversion.

Joe McCarthy, contrary to leftist lies, was involved in investigating the phenomenon of secret Communists operating within the federal government, nothing more and nothing less.




During his brief tenure in the U.S.Senate, Joe McCarthy confronted and uncovered the bizarre phenomenon of certain government officials, in some cases very highly placed and highly regarded government officials, as engaging in a concealment of their Communist involvement.

An analogous situation to the one that Joe McCarthy confronted would be if an al-Qaeda operative were working in the State Department or another sensitive agency of government today and keeping his affiliation secret.

Joe McCarthy demonstrated the fact that Communists had no more of a right to work in our government than would Nazis or Klansmen. The American people, conversely, have a right to know the political orientation of government officials who might be in a position to adversely influence the future of the country.




The liberal response to Joe McCarthy’s revelations, then and now, was to submit him and his reputation to a public auto-da-fe, one that continues to stand as an example of what the left will do to someone who dares to defy its agenda.

Coulter states: “While consistently rooting against America, liberals have used a fictional event forged of their own hysteria – 'McCarthyism' – to prevent Americans from ever asking the simple question: Do liberals love their country?”

Congratulations to Ann –may she have much success with this endeavor for the sake of all of us.

At a frightful sacrifice, even of his own well-being and life, Joe McCarthy was nevertheless successful in fulfilling the public obligation he shouldered. His work was not in vain. In spite of a campaign of vilification, hate and lies, Joe McCarthy successfully alerted the American public at large to the danger Communism posed.


Joe McCarthy’s career parallels that of Winston Churchill in that Churchill likewise tried to warn the British people about the impending danger of Nazism in the 1930s. Churchill was vilified before World War II but, like Joe McCarthy, Churchill understood his times and the nature of evil.

Human history can often hinge on the conscience and action of a single brave individual. We should remember with gratitude that the left failed in its attempt to silence Joe McCarthy as most Americans woke up in time to the Communists' treachery.

Joe McCarthy Vindicated, Again


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 14, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Regarding the ongoing and unrelenting big-lie attack on Joe McCarthy from the left, a man who was simply doing the job he was elected to do, namely to guard our Constitution and our way of life against a conspiracy to undermine it,
> 
> 
> "Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals. ... McCarthy was not tilting at windmills. Soviet spies in the government were not a figment of right-wing imaginations. He was tilting at an authentic Communist conspiracy that had been laughed off by the Democratic Party."
> ...



Time to go all Eisenhower on you and thin the gene pool, there Joe.  Have a nice day.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

*Hollywood Party: How Communism Seduced the American Film Industry in the 1930s and 1940s *

Communist writers, actors, and directors, wealthy beyond the dreams of most Americans, posture as proletarian wage slaves as they try to influence the content of movies. From the days of the Popular Front through the Nazi-Soviet Pact and beyond World War II, they remain faithful to a regime whose brutality rivaled(exceeded) that of Hitler's Nazis.


https://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Party-Communism-American-Industry/dp/0761521666&tag=ff0d01-20


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## bripat9643 (Feb 14, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
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Liberal Dictionary:
====================================================
ultrarightwing conspiracy site - any source that has the facts rather than leftwing propaganda.

You cites disprove nothing.  McCarthy was right about everything he said.  Alger Hiss was a KGP spy, as were the Rosenbergs.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 14, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding the ongoing and unrelenting big-lie attack on Joe McCarthy from the left, a man who was simply doing the job he was elected to do, namely to guard our Constitution and our way of life against a conspiracy to undermine it,
> ...


He trashed your ass, moron.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 14, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
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There were 27 odd names on that list that were correct.  But there were over 100,000 that he wanted to call in front of the Senate and try them as Communists.  Anyone that remotely disagreed with him got put on the "List".  And that included US Military Top Leaders which is where Eisenhower drew the line and ordered an investigation into McCarthy's dealings.  After viewing the investigation, McCarthy's own party (who was the major party in the senate) voted to have him censured.  He was right 27 times (give or take) but wrong the other more than 100,000 times.  Had it not been stopped, the hearings would have run well into the 1970s.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 14, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
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> > MacTheKnife said:
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Time to take out the trash and clean up the gene pool.  Have a nice day.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 14, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> bripat9643 said:
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Total fucking bullshit.  There was no list of 100,000.  They had solid evidence that the  people who were called in front of his committee were communists.  It's obvious that you approve of communist spies infesting our government - you and every other useful idiot in this country.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 14, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> bripat9643 said:
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Does that mean you're going to kill yourself?


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> bripat9643 said:
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bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   absolutely ridiculous claim.....what's your source for that propaganda boyo....let me guess...Pravda?


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

McCarthy, whatever his subsequent reputation, was effective in causing a great deal of collateral damage among the enemies of freedom.  It is an analogy drawn, appropriately, from the Book of Judges.  At last in Evans’ book we may have a valid judgement of McCarthy’s work, and of blood which cries out from the ground, not just for vindication but for succession and continuation.



The Vindication of Joe McCarthy - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

*JOE McCARTHY vs JOE WELCH: THE REAL STORY

*

*Joe McCarthy vs Joe Welch: What REALLY Happened?*


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## Andylusion (Feb 14, 2020)

skews13 said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
> 
> > *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
> ...



So you can't argue against anything that was said.... but you can make up false claims against Trump again.

Save us the time, and just say "You were right, and I am wrong."


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

In the forty years following the Russian Revolution of October 1917, communism was the most dynamic force in American left-wing politics


In the 1950's  many democratic and elitist liberal republican Washington politicians and government workers had connections in their past with communism.

As  has been pointed out previously...many Americans became enamoured with communism during the great depression followed by our alliance with Russia to fight German Nazism which added further reason for many in Washington...even members of the military....to be soft on communism or if not somehow personally involved had friends and relatives and other associates who were.

Our universities were ripe recruiting grounds for the communist internationale....many succumbed to the notion that communism had something to offer.

However, the American people finally woke to the barbaric reality of communism after WWII was over...and the people.....(not to include the elitists, academians and members of the msm) began to understand the threat communsim  posed to liberty.

Thus those who had something in their history regarding communism felt threatened when the tide turned against communism.....and they did their best to hide their history and were quite fearful of being exposed.

Then along came Senator McCarthy who  began to do exactly that.

Thus these people who had something to hide and much to fear ....organized and began to demonize to the best of their ability Senator McCarthy and his drive to rid our government and military of communists and  communist sympathizers.

With the help of the media they were very successful at creating the myth of McCarthyism  that has endured to this day.

Not even to mention that the front-runner in the democratic partys nomination process is for all intents and purposes --a communist--as has even been pointed out by Bill Clintons top advisor.

Carville fires back at Sanders for 'hack' slam: 'At least I'm not a communist'

Communism in the United States | Jewish Women's Archive


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 14, 2020)

Daryl Hunt said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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Here is a very interesting clip for those interested in the McCarthy hearings.


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## Flopper (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> In the forty years following the Russian Revolution of October 1917, communism was the most dynamic force in American left-wing politics
> 
> 
> In the 1950's  many democratic and elitist liberal republican Washington politicians and government workers had connections in their past with communism.
> ...


It is interesting that you consider Sander's a communist. I suspect that you are old enough that you consider socialism as synonymous with  communism, totalitarianism, and the end democracy.

Sander's is most popular with the young, those under 40.  They grew up without fear of annihilation by the Red Menace in a world in which runaway capitalism was a far greater danger than creeping socialism.  They envy the socialist countries in Europe where kids go to college without being saddled by a lifetime of debt, where healthcare is a right not just for those that can afford it, and the quality of life is not measure by the size of a bank account.


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## sparky (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Joe McCarthy demonstrated the fact that *Communists had no more of a right to work in our government than would Nazis or Klansmen*. The American people, conversely, have a right to know the political orientation of government officials who might be in a position to adversely influence the future of the country.







Communist Party USA - Wikipedia






American Party (1924) - Wikipedia

~S~


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2020)

sparky said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
> 
> > Joe McCarthy demonstrated the fact that *Communists had no more of a right to work in our government than would Nazis or Klansmen*. The American people, conversely, have a right to know the political orientation of government officials who might be in a position to adversely influence the future of the country.
> ...


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
> 
> > In the forty years following the Russian Revolution of October 1917, communism was the most dynamic force in American left-wing politics
> ...



The milennials are stupid and have little knowledge of history.....and think they are entitled to free stuff cuz dey are just o so special dats what dere mommy told them.  bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   take a hike boy  hehheh

Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist

Three Nations That Tried Socialism and Rejected It

Why socialism always fails | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

Why Democratic Socialists Can't Claim Sweden, Denmark as Success Stories

Socialism in No Country


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## Flopper (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > MacTheKnife said:
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And they will be running the country in a few years


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
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The communists always promised things would be better in the future.....what happened was that things got even worse....look at the history of all the russian 5yr plans...how they failed....in a nutshell communism/socialism/marxism are all receipes for disaster.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Communism's deadliest foe

Telling the Truth about Communism — Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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That thought should terrify you.


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## Flopper (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Flopper said:
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Communism as a state ideology is dead in Russia. This is official. “No ideology may be established as a state or obligatory one,” as stated in the Article 13 of Russia's Constitution adopted in 1993. This is a major difference compared to previous Soviet constitutions that emphasized the Communist Party as “the leading and guiding force of Soviet society and the nucleus of its political system.”  

 The "Five Year Plans" in Russian were a failure and died a slow death over 70 years ago.  There still exists remnants of Stalin's communist but most of the bad old stuff in the USSR are gone today. However, that does make them an ally of the US.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

The myth of "McCarthyism" is the greatest Orwellian fraud of our times. Liberals are fanatical liars, then as now. The portrayal of Sen. Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren't hiding under the bed during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation's ability to defend itself, while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy's name. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis. As Whittaker Chambers said: "Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.".....Ann Coulter


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> The myth of "McCarthyism" is the greatest Orwellian fraud of our times. Liberals are fanatical liars, then as now. The portrayal of Sen. Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren't hiding under the bed during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation's ability to defend itself, while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy's name. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis. As Whittaker Chambers said: "Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.".....Ann Coulter


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## Dr Grump (Feb 16, 2020)

occupied said:


> LOL this is one of the oldest troll threads on the internet. A variation on the "Hitler did nothing wrong" troll. People who post it know McCarthy was a toxic slime mold the same as anyone.


Well when you look at who has agreed with the OP, the word toxic slime does seem to slip of the tongue easily.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > LOL this is one of the oldest troll threads on the internet. A variation on the "Hitler did nothing wrong" troll. People who post it know McCarthy was a toxic slime mold the same as anyone.
> ...


ROFL! Look at the douchebag hypocrite.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

Venona
Decoding Soviet Espionage in America



 By 1948 the accumulating evidence from other decoded Venona cables showed that the Soviets had recruited spies in virtually every major American government agency of military or diplomatic importance. American authorities learned that since 1942 the United States had been the target of a Soviet espionage onslaught involving dozens of professional Soviet intelligence officers and hundreds of Americans, many of whom were members of the American Communist party (CPUSA). The deciphered cables of the Venona Project identify 349 citizens, immigrants, and permanent residents of the United States who had had a covert relationship with Soviet intelligence agencies (see appendix A). Further, American cryptanalysts in the Venona Project deciphered only a fraction of the Soviet intelligence traffic, so it was only logical to conclude that many additional agents were discussed in the thousands of unread messages. Some were identified from other sources, such as defectors' testimony and the confessions of Soviet spies (see appendix B).

    The deciphered Venona messages also showed that a disturbing number of high-ranking U.S. government officials consciously maintained a clandestine relationship with Soviet intelligence agencies and had passed extraordinarily sensitive information to the Soviet Union that had seriously damaged American interests. Harry White--the second most powerful official in the U.S. Treasury Department, one of the most influential officials in the government, and part of the American delegation at the founding of the United Nations--had advised the KGB about how American diplomatic strategy could be frustrated. A trusted personal assistant to President Franklin Roosevelt, Lauchlin Currie, warned the KGB that the FBI had started an investigation of one of the Soviets' key American agents, Gregory Silvermaster. This warning allowed Silvermaster, who headed a highly productive espionage ring, to escape detection and continue spying. Maurice Halperin, the head of a research section of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), then America's chief intelligence arm, turned over hundreds of pages of secret American diplomatic cables to the KGB. William Perl, a brilliant young government aeronautical scientist, provided the Soviets with the results of the highly secret tests and design experiments for American jet engines and jet aircraft. His betrayal assisted the Soviet Union in quickly overcoming the American technological lead in the development of jets. In the Korean War, U.S. military leaders expected the Air Force to dominate the skies, on the assumption that the Soviet aircraft used by North Korea and Communist China would be no match for American aircraft. They were shocked when Soviet MiG-15 jet fighters not only flew rings around U.S. propeller-driven aircraft but were conspicuously superior to the first generation of American jets as well. Only the hurried deployment of America's newest jet fighter, the F-86 Saber, allowed the United States to match the technological capabilities of the MiG-15. The Air Force prevailed, owing more to the skill of American pilots than to the design of American aircraft.

Venona


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## Dr Grump (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Venona
> Decoding Soviet Espionage in America
> 
> 
> ...



Nobody gives a shit that they were hunting spies. Good for them. So they should have. What McCarthyism was, was a witch hunt. There were no checks and balances. The irony in this windbag, revisionist OP is that the things that McCarthy and all you other right-wing loons on this board are advocating is exactly how the Soviet Union was run. Guilty by association; throwing people to the dogs based on rumour and innuendo. And you whackadoodles are always accusing others of being anti-America yadda, yadda yadda when I'm hard pressed to find anything more unAmerican that the type of shit McCarthy got up to.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
> 
> > Venona
> ...


All that happened is that they lost their sensitive government positions.  Apparently you believe that we should allow spies to infest our government.  You're a commie dumbass.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
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> > Venona
> ...




Laughable....actually hillarious how some dupe of the media can display such ignorance.

Checks and Balances......bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa  It is rare to see such rampant stupidity even on this board.

Anyhow....can you tell all of us exactly who was thrown to the dogs?   I mean besides Senator Joe McCarthy American Hero.


No matter how much evidence vindicating the late Sen. Joe McCarthy comes out, what we call McCarthyism remains anathema in American life. Simply to utter the word is to deep-freeze debate, even thought itself. Even as we learn about the history-changing extent to which American traitors working for the Kremlin penetrated and subverted the U.S. government (including many individuals investigated by McCarthy), the unsupportable fact remains that nothing in American public life is worse than to be compared to the man best-known for his uncompromising fight against the secret, massive assault on our nation. When will we realize it's time to make amends and honor his memory?
Thank Joe McCarthy, don't demonize him - WND


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
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> > MacTheKnife said:
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So what's the proper "balance" between national security and the rights of communist spies?


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


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Excellent question.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> bripat9643 said:
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Contrary to what Dr Gump believes, they have no right to a sensitive government job.


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## Dr Grump (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Laughable....actually hillarious how some dupe of the media can display such ignorance.
> 
> Checks and Balances......bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa  It is rare to see such rampant stupidity even on this board.
> 
> ...


RATFLMAO!!!!

You funny..
_
WorldNetDaily is an American news and opinion website and online news aggregator which has been described as "*fringe" and far right* as well as politically conservative. _


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## Dr Grump (Feb 16, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


> So what's the proper "balance" between national security and the rights of communist spies?



Who cares about the spies. I'm more interested in those caught up in the witch hunt who have done nothing. BTW, just so you know, it's not illegal to be a communists in the US. It never has been. Morons. The both of you.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > So what's the proper "balance" between national security and the rights of communist spies?
> ...




You were asked before and I ask you again give us some names of people you claim were caught up in the witch-hunt....you must have a list.  hehheh   How many names on your list???


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > So what's the proper "balance" between national security and the rights of communist spies?
> ...



The *Communist Control Act* (68 Stat. 775, 50 U.S.C. 841-844) is a piece of United States federal legislation, signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower on 24 August 1954, which outlaws the Communist Party of the United States and criminalizes membership in, or support for the Party or "Communist-action" organizations and defines evidence to be considered by a jury in determining participation in the activities, planning, actions, objectives, or purposes of such organizations.


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## Dale Smith (Feb 16, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> MacTheKnife said:
> 
> 
> > Laughable....actually hillarious how some dupe of the media can display such ignorance.
> ...





Suck it hard.....you know, like you always do......

(snicker)

Venona


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## Dr Grump (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


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The Act has since been ruled unconstitutional in federal court but has not been ruled on in the Supreme Court and has never been enforced.


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## Dr Grump (Feb 16, 2020)

Dale Smith said:


> Suck it hard.....you know, like you always do......
> 
> (snicker)
> 
> Venona



Oh Lookie. The guy with the tin foil hat has graced us with his presence.


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## Dr Grump (Feb 16, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


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Hollywood blacklist - Wikipedia


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 16, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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> > Laughable....actually hillarious how some dupe of the media can display such ignorance.
> ...


You're an imbecile, of course.  Labeling some source as "far right" does not prove that it's wrong.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


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What makes you believe these Hollywood people were innocent?  Was Zero Mastel innocent?  No, he was a communist.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
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> > Suck it hard.....you know, like you always do......
> ...


By "tin foil hat" you mean the facts.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> bripat9643 said:
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> 
> > So what's the proper "balance" between national security and the rights of communist spies?
> ...


Yes, we know you are fond of communists.  What they did is work in sensitive positions in the government while taking orders from Moscow.  Staling was directly in charge of the CPUSA, and these people were members of that organization.


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## Flopper (Feb 17, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


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You notice, none of these people try too defend McCarthy's methods because if they did, they would be defending the methods used by the Communists and Nazis.  Right wing fanatics are the first to defend the constitution and the first the violate it.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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His "methods?"  You mean having hearings in the Senate?  Doesn't that make your heroes Adolph Shiffler, Nadless and Piglosi a bunch of McCarthyites?


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 17, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


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hehheh  take it easy on the liberal...i think he is  very fragile.

After years and years of lapping up the liberal narrative...I think he is beginning to see a lil bit of  truth now...must be very hard on him.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


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Flopper, see the truth?  His brain is pickled in the TDS Koolaid.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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> > In the forty years following the Russian Revolution of October 1917, communism was the most dynamic force in American left-wing politics
> ...



So you admit that Sanders only appeals to people who are too young to understand what he's really talking about.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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No, they'll be screaming at the children of the conservatives they're screaming at now while THEY run the country.


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## Flopper (Feb 17, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


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McCarthyism was a campaign against alleged communists in the US government and other institutions.   McCarthy was the spearhead and probably the most outspoken government offical.  However, McCarthyism went far beyond his Senate Government Operations Committee.

McCarthyism was a two prong attack.

First being accusations of being a communist or having sympathies for the cause.  McCarthy issued press releases and made speeches accusing hundreds of people and organizations but rarely offering any evidence. The House of Un-American Activities Committee and the Senate Government Operations Committee called a number witness over the years.  In reality these were mostly an integration, the purpose being to attack the witness's loyalty to the country or to solicit names of other possible communist, who were often called to testify.
Second came the financial attack through firing, contract cancellations, and refusal to hire.  Primary methods used were to put pressure on Hollywood Executives, and release of the FBI Responsibility Program information to governors.  Fear of government exposure caused many large government contractors to start their on informal programs to make sure they did not have questionable people employed.
In the 50's, any discussion of communism other than to condemn it were quite likely to get you trouble. The real investigations of communist activity that lead to arrests for spying and espionage was done by the FBI.  Congressional investigation were more about charter assignation of people who refused to participate in the McCarthyism inquisitions.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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Which methods are you condemning?  Making speeches?  Questioning people in front of Congressional sub-committees?  Holding hearings?  Basically all the same stuff the left routinely does to people for the "unspeakable crime" of working for Donald Trump?

If you think that's comparable to the Communists and the Nazis, then you're as dumb as Alexandria Occasional Cortex, because you forgot the essential next step of _sending people to camps to be tortured and die_.  THAT would be the part that sane people object to Communists and Nazis over.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 17, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


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Great minds think alike.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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You should really cite the sources you plagiarize, so that you wouldn't have to bear the brunt of being so fantastically wrong all by yourself.


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## Flopper (Feb 17, 2020)

Cecilie1200 said:


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I said, Sander's is most popular with the young, those under 40.  Being under 40 does not imply a lack of understanding.


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## Flopper (Feb 17, 2020)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Violation of rights, making accusations without evidence, pressuring employers not to hire those accused.  Those were exactly the methods used by both the Nazis and the Communist.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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What rights were violated?  

McCarthy had plenty of evidence.  He had the Venona cables and FBI files.  

The federal government has no obligation to hire members of the Communist party.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 17, 2020)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Being young doesn't mean they are necessarily stupid.  Being old doesn't necessarily mean we are smart.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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Newsflash:  There chippy, it's just too easy for a DB to be presented for all people that are legal to work.  In case you haven't figured it out, you are in a lot of different DBs already.  If a person is not in that DB, he can find out during his job application process.  If it's in error, he can easily get it corrected with a Birth Certificate or legal documents for LEGAL Immigrants.  And then he or She is eligible for employment.  The safe document would be a Social Security Card.  We are all on that list.  And yes, I know, some are faked but that's going to show up pretty quickly after hire.  Then you fired that person and bring in someone legal.  Of course, have ICE escort the illegal off your premises.


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## Dr Grump (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


> You notice, none of these people try too defend McCarthy's methods because if they did, they would be defending the methods used by the Communists and Nazis.  Right wing fanatics are the first to defend the constitution and the first the violate it.



See my post number 137..


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## Dr Grump (Feb 17, 2020)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Ha! You and Bri thinking you have great minds is like saying Adolf Hitler was a nice guy. You are both dumb as posts...


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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About things that happened before you were born, and which leftist-run schools assiduously do not teach?  Yeah, it does.

We've seen this cycle with socialism and communism before.  They appeal to people too young to remember the previous disastrous attempt, and it sounds really good to them on paper, and then they try it, and a disaster happens, and then they wait until enough time has passed, and start from the top.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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None of which you have ever been able to specify to us, despite having been asked multiple times.  I cannot imagine what has ever happened on this board to make you hopeful that you could just state something and have it be believed.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 17, 2020)

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If he ever had any credibility his performance on this thread has destroyed it.


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## Flopper (Feb 17, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Flopper said:
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> > You notice, none of these people try too defend McCarthy's methods because if they did, they would be defending the methods used by the Communists and Nazis.  Right wing fanatics are the first to defend the constitution and the first the violate it.
> ...


I did and agree.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 17, 2020)

Flopper said:


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Neither of you cite any sources for the allegations you make...all you have is the liberal narrative of innuendo, rumor and lies.

Identify the methods of Mac that you think were so horrible...and the names of those you allege he mistreated and evidence to support your charges.

*Now .....Let us look at some of  the lies about Senator Joe McCarthy*

The standard liberal narrative of Joseph McCarthy’s death is that it was due to liver complications from too much alcohol – or put more bluntly, McCarthy died of alcoholism.....which is not supported by the official death certificate............

Senator McCarthy entered Bethesda Naval Hospital April 28, 1957 for a knee injury he sustained while serving as a Marine in World War 2. He died on May 2 with the official cause of death given as “hepatitis, acute, cause unknown” of a “noninfectious type”.

The myth of McCarthy’s alcoholism was concocted to provide plausible affirmability of the liver theory. Dave Martin states that close associates of McCarthy at the time of his death related that the senator could not drink because of prior hepatitis infection.

Biographer M Stanton Evans also explained that although McCarthy was a social drinker, he laboriously nursed a single drink in order to maintain control of his mental faculties, recognizing that intoxication was a quick way to sink a political career.

Even the official documents claiming hepatitis are not to be believed, but since Wikipedia is a mouth piece for the US government and a shill for establishment historians, at the least it should hew the line on the official cause of death. It instead opts for the smarmy declaration that “It was hinted in the press that he died of alcoholism, an estimation that is accepted by contemporary biographers.”

Martin shrewdly notes that since the cause of the hepatitis was unknown, he could not have been treated for anything. In other words McCarthy did not suffer any of the types A-E for which treatment would be prescribed. Martin informs us that hepatitis may result from either infection or poisoning.

Martin also notes that McCarthy suffered infectious hepatitis in the early 1950s, subsequent to which he may have continued his moderate social drinking – although not in the months leading to his death - which may give plausibility to drinking as the cause of death. McCarthy was reported by friends such as the Kohlbergs and the senator’s wife as being in very good health in the week prior to his death. So an explanation is required to determine his sudden reversal, and it surely was not due to his knee injury.

The US government refused to obey local and national law regarding the performance of an autopsy upon McCarthy’s death. Martin relates that a friend of McCarthy, a certain Mr Engel, acting on behalf of the family, pleaded with the local, state, and national authorities to conduct an autopsy, but they unanimously refused even though required by law. Clearly the governments had something to hide.

The story then is that McCarthy was admitted to Bethesda Naval Hospital on April 27 for a knee injury. Then news accounts claimed that he suffered “acute hepatitis” for which he was put into an oxygen tent from which he was removed Tuesday, improving, though still in serious condition. Then his health took a turn for the worse, whereupon he died May 2.

This story doesn’t pass the smell test. Martin reports that non-infectious hepatitis has a mortality rate of only 5-10%. The most likely explanation of death is that the healthy McCarthy entered Bethesda for treatment of a knee injury, which the hospital then reported as hepatitis.

It is impossible for us to believe that a man who was healthy and feeling good - who walked into the hospital for treatment of a knee injury - died within 5 days of such admission from “acute hepatitis.” His past illness of hepatitis was the plausible story that he died of it while in Bethesda. He did not drink for months prior to admission to the hospital.

The so-called Army-McCarthy hearings were a turning point in the investigation into Soviet espionage in the United States, an event which earned the senator some powerful enemies, namely the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the entire seamy intelligence world infiltrated with soviet sympathizers and spies.

More lies about Senator Joe MacCarthy.............More lies about McCarthy


https://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068&tag=ff0d01-20


Sen. Joseph McCarthy: Facts, Not The Catechism Of Lies

When conservatives parrot liberal lies about Joe McCarthy


*Reference*

Dave Martin, James Forrestal And Joe McCarthy, rense.com, September 29, 2011, accessed 10/11/2015

M Stanton Evans, Blacklisted by History, Three Rivers Press, New York, 2007, [Scribd Excerpt]

Wikipedia contributors. Joseph McCarthy. Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. October 11, 2015, 15:15 UTC.

DC Dave, Why Senator Joe McCarthy Had to Be Destroyed, Before It's News, July 27, 2014, accessed 10/11/2015

https://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-S...c=1&refRID=M3AXQ4N4VZ7FGM4VZ0NT&tag=ff0d01-20

When conservatives parrot liberal lies about Joe McCarthy


Joe McCarthy Was Right

Despite a campaign of attack launched against McCarthy by his political enemies in Congress and in the establishment media, over the next two years he persisted in his efforts to unmask the truth about communist penetration of the United States government.  When the elections of 1952 gave the Republicans a majority in the Senate, McCarthy ascended to the chairmanship of the Government Operations Committee, and under the authority of the GOC’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, he instigated a series of hearings designed to uncover the truth about the communist menace on American soil. Specifically, McCarthy wanted to find out if people with connections to the American Communist Party or sympathetic to the goals of international communism in general were occupying sensitive positions inside the federal government, and among the organizations he targeted for investigation were the State Department, the CIA, the U.S. Information Agency, and the U.S. Army.


Who was Joseph McCarthy, and why is he, without question, hands-down -- the most widely and most viciously vilified personage in American history? The official version of history -- written by academic operatives serving the same ruling class which McCarthy sought to expose – teaches us that the Wisconsin Senator was a nasty bullying brute who dirtied the reputations of anyone who disagreed with him politically. As the story goes, if one was a “liberal,” the demagogue McCarthy slandered him as a “communist” and, just like that, an innocent man, or woman, was ruined. McCarthy’s mole-hunting came to be known as “McCarthyism” – a derogatory term still used today to describe political slanderers. More than sixty years after his crusade against “Red” traitors was stopped in its tracks, American school children, who learn very little about history (real or fake), will surely learn about the “evil” Joe McCarthy – and it’s all a pack of slickly-packaged lies. The history of Joe McCarthy is a story that absolutely must be corrected not merely for the sake of academic scholarship, but more importantly, because the very same “conspiracy so immense” that ultimately destroyed McCarthy is still alive and well today – and more dangerous than ever.This is the true story of Senator Joseph McCarthy – “Saint” Joseph of Wisconsin. Hallowed be his unjustly dirtied name.


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## Dr Grump (Feb 17, 2020)

Blah, blah, blah...


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## bripat9643 (Feb 18, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> Blah, blah, blah...


Are you too fucking dumb to follow it?


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 18, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
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He never had any, so I wouldn't worry about it.


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## regent (Feb 18, 2020)

If the U.S. army had just given McCarthy's boy, Cohan the commission McCarthy demanded I wonder how this saga would have unfolded?


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## Picaro (Feb 18, 2020)

McCarthy was just some drunk playing on hysteria for his own personal political benefit, using many of the legal  immunities given to Senators in those days to protect his own ass. Most of the right wing in those days was being subsidized and funded by people like Fred Koch, who made a huge fortune as Joseph Stalin's favorite butt boy in the Soviet oil industry. Their goal was to make right wingers look like total retards and idiots, and they succeeded. They succeeded so well even William Buckley and Barry Goldwater worked hard to get them thrown out of the GOP, or else let the GOP die off from lack of votes. Goldwater and Buckley saved the GOP from extinction in the 1960's.


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## Flopper (Feb 18, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> Flopper said:
> 
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I usually reference sources but the fact is there are so many good nonpartisan sources such as:
McCarthyism | History & Facts
McCarthyism and the Red Scare | Miller Center
https://www.amazon.com/FBI-Comprehensive-Reference-Guide/dp/089774991X&tag=ff0d01-20
McCarthyism - Wikipedia


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## Flopper (Feb 18, 2020)

Picaro said:


> McCarthy was just some drunk playing on hysteria for his own personal political benefit, using many of the legal  immunities given to Senators in those days to protect his own ass. Most of the right wing in those days was being subsidized and funded by people like Fred Koch, who made a huge fortune as Joseph Stalin's favorite butt boy in the Soviet oil industry. Their goal was to make right wingers look like total retards and idiots, and they succeeded. They succeeded so well even William Buckley and Barry Goldwater worked hard to get them thrown out of the GOP, or else let the GOP die off from lack of votes. Goldwater and Buckley saved the GOP from extinction in the 1960's.


McCarthy's downfall was inevitable as he kept increasing the number of organizations and individuals he attacked.  He came to fame in 1950, when he announced more 200 communist working in state department.  On later questioning by the FBI and the US Senate at his censure hearing he was unable to name a single person or offer any evidence to support his claim.

His downfall, came when he attacked the top officials in the Army claiming a communist conspiracy existed.  He then implied Eisenhower and his staff had knowledge of the conspiracy.  Ike had enough.  His administration released very damaging information about Roy Cohn, one of McCarthy's key attack dogs and later a close confident of Donald Trump.  As McCarthy continued to attack the generals, Eisenhower called for a Senate investigation of charges levied by McCarthy.  The Senate investigation of the Army rapidly became an investigation of McCarthy.  What made the investigation so damaging for McCarthy was the coverage on national television.  McCarthy was totally discredited.  He was not able produce any proof to support his allegations.  Shortly after the Army investigation, the Senate began herrings on McCarthy which resulted in a Senate Censure.  This was McCarthy's last term in office.

After his condemnation and censure, Joseph McCarthy continued to perform his senatorial duties for another two and a half years. But his career as a major public figure had been irreparably ruined. His colleagues in the Senate obviously avoided him; his speeches on the Senate floor were delivered to a near-empty chamber or they were received with intentional and conspicuous displays of inattention.  The press that had once recorded his every public statement now ignored him, and outside speaking engagements dwindled almost to nothing. President Eisenhower, finally freed of McCarthy's political intimidation, quipped to his Cabinet that McCarthyism was now "McCarthywasm".

McCarthyism and the Red Scare | Miller Center
Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia


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## Dr Grump (Feb 18, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
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> > Blah, blah, blah...
> ...



Nah. Just bored with revisionist history. What next? Hitler was a misunderstood artist?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 18, 2020)

Dr Grump said:


> bripat9643 said:
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All history is subject to revisions, you fucking Stalinist. Apparently you believe we should continue to propagate wrong information.  That takes a special kind of stupid.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 18, 2020)

Flopper said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > McCarthy was just some drunk playing on hysteria for his own personal political benefit, using many of the legal  immunities given to Senators in those days to protect his own ass. Most of the right wing in those days was being subsidized and funded by people like Fred Koch, who made a huge fortune as Joseph Stalin's favorite butt boy in the Soviet oil industry. Their goal was to make right wingers look like total retards and idiots, and they succeeded. They succeeded so well even William Buckley and Barry Goldwater worked hard to get them thrown out of the GOP, or else let the GOP die off from lack of votes. Goldwater and Buckley saved the GOP from extinction in the 1960's.
> ...


You're regurgitating the same talking points that the McCarthy hate mob has been using for decades.  This shit was all discredited when the Venona cables were published and the Soviet archives were opened.

All you're proving is your zeal to dispense communist propaganda.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 18, 2020)

Flopper said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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Discredited communist propaganda.


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 18, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


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The liberal concept of 'revisionist history' is being used more and more to censor the truth and restrict access to it.

I was at The V.A. earlier today and whilst waiting for my appointment used their computers....I found that certain conservative sites could not be accessed....the reason posted.....Access denied to revisionist history.


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## Dr Grump (Feb 18, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


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Do you believe Kennedy was shot by Oswald and Oswald alone?
Do you believe in the moon landing?


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## Dr Grump (Feb 18, 2020)

bripat9643 said:


> Discredited communist propaganda.



By whom?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Feb 18, 2020)

MacTheKnife said:


> *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
> 
> Communism - McCarthy Was Right
> 
> ...


Rightwing revisionism and lies – conservatives at their most reprehensible.


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## Flopper (Feb 18, 2020)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> MacTheKnife said:
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> > *Yet as has been revealed for some time now McCarthy was correct.
> ...


*You still don't get the point. Most people that demonize McCarthy do so not because he was wrong about communism in the country but rather because of the methods he use to fight communism.  In America we judge people not by what we think they believe but by their actions.  If a person attended a communist meeting, it does not mean he or she is communist.  It just mean they attended a communist meeting and in itself proves nothing other than that.  To believe otherwise is to believe in guilt by association.  And for McCarthy that was proof enough to label people a communist and encourage loyal Americans to ostracize them from society, and the workplace.*


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## MacTheKnife (Feb 18, 2020)

Flopper said:


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You constantly talk about his methods.....yet you present nothing to make your point.

  All you do is repeat the claims made by communist sympathizers which amounts only to smear tactics to demonize Joe McCarthy....in other words you and your ilk are doing exactly what you claim McCarthy did.


*Was it fair for McCarthy to make all those names public and ruin reputations?*

 That is precisely why McCarthy _did not _make the names public. Four times during McCarthy's February 20th speech, Senator Scott Lucas demanded that McCarthy make the 81 names public, but McCarthy refused to do so, responding that "if I were to give all the names involved, it might leave a wrong impression. If we should label one man a communist when he is not a communist, I think it would be too bad." What McCarthy did was to identify the individuals only by case numbers, not by their names.

By the way, it took McCarthy some six hours to make that February 20th speech because of harassment by hostile senators, four of whom - Scott Lucas, Brien McMahon, Garrett Withers, and Herbert Lehman - interrupted him a total of 123 times. It should also be noted that McCarthy was not indicting the entire State Department. He said that "the vast majority of the employees of the State Department are loyal" and that he was only after the ones who had demonstrated a loyalty to the Soviet Union or to the Communist Party.

Further, McCarthy admitted that "some of these individuals whose cases I am giving the Senate are no longer in the State Department. A sizable number of them are not. Some of them have transferred to other government work, work allied with the State Department. Others have been transferred to the United Nations."


The New American - The Real McCarthy Record - September 2, 1996

Irregardless.........................

*Never Forget: Joe McCarthy Was Right!*







Senator Joseph McCarthy, a courageous and patriotic American.

“Senator Cruz’s substantive point was absolutely correct: in the mid-1990s, the Harvard Law School faculty included numerous self-described proponents of ‘critical legal studies’ — a school of thought explicitly derived from Marxism – and they far outnumbered Republicans.”
— *Catherine Frazier*, spokeswoman for Sen. Ted Cruz

Democrats and the major news media — but I repeat myself — have decided that Texas Sen. Ted Cruz’s opposition to the Chuck Hagel nomination makes him the “New McCarthy.”

And they say that like it’s a _bad_ thing.

Sen. Joseph McCarthy has been unjustly and dishonestly maligned for so long that even many conservative Republicans nowadays use “McCarthyism” as a slur, without any real understanding of who the man was, or what he was trying to accomplish.

Intellectuals who today think of themselves as the rightful heirs of William F. Buckley Jr. often seem to forget that the second book Buckley wrote, after _God and Man at Yale_, was _McCarthy and His Enemies_, which Buckley co-authored with his brother-in-law Brent Bozell (father of Brent Bozell III, who is today head of the Media Research Center). Buckley knew, as do all honest and intelligent students of the Cold War era, that even if one stipulates McCarthy made mistakes and had unfortunate personality traits, he was really a better man than his vindictive critics, and certainly more sincerely patriotic than the Communist enemies he sought to expose.

Never Forget: Joe McCarthy Was Right!



Beginning in the late 1960s, John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr say, the study of communism in America was taken over by "revisionists" who have attempted to portray the U.S. as the aggressor in the Cold War and saw suspicion about the American Communist Party (CPUSA) as baseless "paranoia." In this intriguing book, they show how, years after the death of communism, the leading historical journals and many prominent historians continue to teach that America's rejection of the Party was a tragic error, that American Communists were actually unsung heroes working for democratic ideals, and that those anti-Communist liberals and conservatives who drove the CPUSA to the margins of American politics in the 1950s were malicious figures deserving condemnation. The focus of "In Denial" is what the authors call "lying about spying." Haynes and Klehr examine the ways in which revisionist scholars have ignored or distorted new evidence from recently-opened Russian archives about espionage links between Moscow and the CPUSA. They analyze the mythology that continues to suggest, against all evidence, that Alger Hiss, Julius Rosenberg, Harry Dexter White, Lauchlin Currie, and others who betrayed the United States were more sinned against than sinning. They set the record straight about the spies among us. Haynes and Klehr were the first U.S. historians who used the newly opened archives of the former Soviet Union to examine the history of American communism. "In Denial" is the record of what they discovered there. They show that while the international communist movement may be dead, conflict over the meaning of the communist experience in America is still very much with us.

https://www.amazon.com/Denial-Histo...linkId=&creativeASIN=159403088X&tag=ff0d01-20


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