# My dog has a heart murmur!



## Kooshdakhaa

I took my dog to an emergency vet Saturday night.  She has a bite on her leg from a spat with one of my other dogs, and it was starting to look pretty bad, so I took her in.

That's being treated and has shown improvement, but the bad news is the vet detected a heart murmur.  Now, she's a Doberman, and they have a strong genetic predisposition for heart disease...dilated cardiomyopathy in particular.

This murmur may be an indicator of that.  In addition, she's lost quite a bit of weight, another possible symptom.

From what I've read, if her heart has already started to enlarge, she may only have six months to live.  But if it's only the murmur and no changes have occurred with her heart, it's possible that medication can extend her life two and even three years.

Tomorrow we see her regular vet and then go from there.

I knew she wouldn't live forever, but God I'm not ready to lose her yet.  She'll be 10 years old on October 24th.  I already have her presents bought and stashed in a closet.  

My sweet Greta.  She is the center of my Universe.


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## skye

(((I pray and hope she gets better)))


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## Gracie

I will pray that dear Greta will be with you for many years. Heart murmurs are no different in humans and people live long lives with change of diet, less stress, meds. Just keep loving Greta, honey. She will be there for her birthday! Mine is October 11th. Tell Greta HB for me, giver her a hug twixt her eyes for me and tell her I love her too. I LOVE Dobies! And Greta is just beautiful. 

Try not to stress out too much. I know that is hard. Just try, though. She will pick up on you feeling antsy over her condition. Google about it so you can see what you can do on your end while the vet works on that end, ok? And remember....I will light candles for you both as well.

Hugs


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## syrenn

i am so sorry your baby is not well. 

I know all to well how you feel. We love our pets as if they were children. I hope she will be alright.


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## Noomi

I hope your dear Great will be okay!


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## Kooshdakhaa

Gracie said:


> I will pray that dear Greta will be with you for many years. Heart murmurs are no different in humans and people live long lives with change of diet, less stress, meds. Just keep loving Greta, honey. She will be there for her birthday! Mine is October 11th. Tell Greta HB for me, giver her a hug twixt her eyes for me and tell her I love her too. I LOVE Dobies! And Greta is just beautiful.
> 
> Try not to stress out too much. I know that is hard. Just try, though. She will pick up on you feeling antsy over her condition. Google about it so you can see what you can do on your end while the vet works on that end, ok? And remember....I will light candles for you both as well.
> 
> Hugs



Yes, she is already picking up on the fact that I'm upset about something.  I've been crying and she has rarely seen me cry.  It upsets her.  I will try to be strong...for her


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## Sallow

Most everything that has a heart has a murmur of some sort.

Don't freak.

Keep any eye on her. Take her for regular visits to the vet.


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## Book of Jeremiah

I will be praying for Greta today, Koosh.  I'm also praying for the Lord to comfort and encourage you.  He will answer.   I love dobermans, only dog I have ever owned myself - was a doberman...  my husband owned a mixed lab when I met him but as for me?  Only dobi's.  No other dog compares - to me..  My dobi passed away this past year.  He had a very long life.. his name was Dobi.  - Jeri


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## strollingbones

Sallow said:


> Most everything that has a heart has a murmur of some sort.
> 
> Don't freak.
> 
> Keep any eye on her. Take her for regular visits to the vet.



spoken like a man who has no idea about this and dobermans....

*hugs koosh*

okay sweetie....we both know what i am about to say will hurt...but it has to be said...
i will not give you false hope at all...i think you know this is more than a murmur....as you said she is losing weight...and you are starting to realize it...i hope its only a murmur....i hope against all hope...

now the worst...i cant encourage you to got to the medical ends with this...its a horrible way for a doberman to die and its hell on the family....watching and waiting for the last breath...

you are a doberman lover and owner...you will be expected to be that....be brave...get your shit together and stop crying...that scares them....you know that...(your realize i am crying my eyes out right now over this hardcore advice i must give you)  

you will not be alone....we are here...we cannot help you much but we can help you when you are in pain and if the decision is the worst we will be here....

*hugs koosh again*  remember dear....no one cries alone in the pet forum when our pets are in trouble...we will hope for the best and prepare for the worst........

for those non doberman owners....this is like finding our your cat has kidney problems....no real treatment at all.....i have never seen a doberman owner face this problem and not suffer.....its guilt ridden......just guilt ridden....


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## Sallow

strollingbones said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most everything that has a heart has a murmur of some sort.
> 
> Don't freak.
> 
> Keep any eye on her. Take her for regular visits to the vet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spoken like a man who has no idea about this and dobermans....
> 
> *hugs koosh*
> 
> okay sweetie....we both know what i am about to say will hurt...but it has to be said...
> i will not give you false hope at all...i think you know this is more than a murmur....as you said she is losing weight...and you are starting to realize it...i hope its only a murmur....i hope against all hope...
> 
> now the worst...i cant encourage you to got to the medical ends with this...its a horrible way for a doberman to die and its hell on the family....watching and waiting for the last breath...
> 
> you are a doberman lover and owner...you will be expected to be that....be brave...get your shit together and stop crying...that scares them....you know that...(your realize i am crying my eyes out right now over this hardcore advice i must give you)
> 
> you will not be alone....we are here...we cannot help you much but we can help you when you are in pain and if the decision is the worst we will be here....
> 
> *hugs koosh again*  remember dear....no one cries alone in the pet forum when our pets are in trouble...we will hope for the best and prepare for the worst........
> 
> for those non doberman owners....this is like finding our your cat has kidney problems....no real treatment at all.....i have never seen a doberman owner face this problem and not suffer.....its guilt ridden......just guilt ridden....
Click to expand...


You posted the same advice I gave..with more words.

I've had dogs all my life. No..I've never owned a Doberman.

Quite simply..you do the best you can. Dogs are a part of the family.

Only they don't live as long.

It sucks.


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## strollingbones

yea it does suck.....but its the decision we make when we get a puppy or kitten


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## Wolfsister77

So sorry Koosh that your dog is not well. 

Lets hope you get the news that she can be made comfortable with meds for a couple more years.

If not, you will know what to do-she will tell you when the time is right.

I know this from the numerous dogs and cats I've had as pets and seen go through illness. They are family and it sucks they don't live as long as we do.

Best wishes.

((Hugs))


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## Book of Jeremiah

strollingbones said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most everything that has a heart has a murmur of some sort.
> 
> Don't freak.
> 
> Keep any eye on her. Take her for regular visits to the vet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spoken like a man who has no idea about this and dobermans....
> 
> *hugs koosh*
> 
> okay sweetie....we both know what i am about to say will hurt...but it has to be said...
> i will not give you false hope at all...i think you know this is more than a murmur....as you said she is losing weight...and you are starting to realize it...i hope its only a murmur....i hope against all hope...
> 
> now the worst...i cant encourage you to got to the medical ends with this...its a horrible way for a doberman to die and its hell on the family....watching and waiting for the last breath...
> 
> you are a doberman lover and owner...you will be expected to be that....be brave...get your shit together and stop crying...that scares them....you know that...(your realize i am crying my eyes out right now over this hardcore advice i must give you)
> 
> you will not be alone....we are here...we cannot help you much but we can help you when you are in pain and if the decision is the worst we will be here....
> 
> *hugs koosh again*  remember dear....no one cries alone in the pet forum when our pets are in trouble...we will hope for the best and prepare for the worst........
> 
> for those non doberman owners....this is like finding our your cat has kidney problems....no real treatment at all.....i have never seen a doberman owner face this problem and not suffer.....its guilt ridden......just guilt ridden....
Click to expand...


Let us allow Koosh to decide whether she prefers to believe your report or the report of the Lord which is that God does hear the prayers of his people and that His Word does not return back void unto him but will go forth to perform the work it was sent to do.  This is according to Koosh's faith and my faith.  NOT YOURS STROLLINGBONES.  

  - Jeri


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## Book of Jeremiah

When in doubt?  Cast it out.  With God all things are possible.   - Jeri


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## Kooshdakhaa

strollingbones said:


> yea it does suck.....but its the decision we make when we get a puppy or kitten



You know, you do have a point.  I had that same thought just yesterday, I thought, "What was I thinking when I got that puppy!?"

Of course, I knew on some level that she would eventually die.  What I didn't know is how much I would love her.

I have 12 animals, 8 rescued, and some of those rescued animals I don't really love at all.  I have compassion for them, affection for them, I care for them...but I don't love them the way I love this dog.

I have often thought she is someone I knew in a past life, the bond is so strong.  I have looked at her and said, "Who ARE you!?"  There is something so special about her.

But if that is true, perhaps there is purpose to all this...perhaps we will meet again and I'll be able to say, "Oh, that was YOU!" and we will laugh.

At least she has broken through my inability to cry.  I didn't even cry when my father died in 2009.  I haven't cried in years.  But I have cried several times in the past couple of days, because of the thought of my beloved dog being sick.  

Can't cry around her anymore, though.  It bothers her, so I have to toughen up.

Vet today at 3:50 p.m.  Oh, and the leg wound has busted open, I think it needs to be resectioned and stitched up.  But if she has a heart murmur, will the anesthesia be a great risk?  Thank God for my vet, he is no nonsense and he knows what he's doing.

I always think of the worst case scenario.


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## Kooshdakhaa

strollingbones said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most everything that has a heart has a murmur of some sort.
> 
> Don't freak.
> 
> Keep any eye on her. Take her for regular visits to the vet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spoken like a man who has no idea about this and dobermans....
> 
> *hugs koosh*
> 
> okay sweetie....we both know what i am about to say will hurt...but it has to be said...
> i will not give you false hope at all...i think you know this is more than a murmur....as you said she is losing weight...and you are starting to realize it...i hope its only a murmur....i hope against all hope...
> 
> now the worst...i cant encourage you to got to the medical ends with this...its a horrible way for a doberman to die and its hell on the family....watching and waiting for the last breath...
> 
> you are a doberman lover and owner...you will be expected to be that....be brave...get your shit together and stop crying...that scares them....you know that...(your realize i am crying my eyes out right now over this hardcore advice i must give you)
> 
> you will not be alone....we are here...we cannot help you much but we can help you when you are in pain and if the decision is the worst we will be here....
> 
> *hugs koosh again*  remember dear....no one cries alone in the pet forum when our pets are in trouble...we will hope for the best and prepare for the worst........
> 
> for those non doberman owners....this is like finding our your cat has kidney problems....no real treatment at all.....i have never seen a doberman owner face this problem and not suffer.....its guilt ridden......just guilt ridden....
Click to expand...


I know. But I will not give up hope yet.  She has no coughing.  She still runs.  She still gets all giddy and happy when we come home.  As long as she can have enjoymnent in life and not suffer, I will not end her life.

It all depends if the heart disease has begun to manifest itself beyond just the level 3 murmur.  If it has not, the medications may buy her another couple of years of good life.  Not suffering, good life.

No way will I watch this dog struggle to breath as her lungs fill with fluid, which is what dilated cardiomyopathy will do.  But that isn't happening yet, there are no breathing problems and the emergency vet said her lungs are clear.

But I also know that the disease progresses very quickly if it's too late for meds to help.


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## strollingbones

Kooshdakhaa said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea it does suck.....but its the decision we make when we get a puppy or kitten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, you do have a point.  I had that same thought just yesterday, I thought, "What was I thinking when I got that puppy!?"
> 
> Of course, I knew on some level that she would eventually die.  What I didn't know is how much I would love her.
> 
> I have 12 animals, 8 rescued, and some of those rescued animals I don't really love at all.  I have compassion for them, affection for them, I care for them...but I don't love them the way I love this dog.
> 
> I have often thought she is someone I knew in a past life, the bond is so strong.  I have looked at her and said, "Who ARE you!?"  There is something so special about her.
> 
> But if that is true, perhaps there is purpose to all this...perhaps we will meet again and I'll be able to say, "Oh, that was YOU!" and we will laugh.
> 
> At least she has broken through my inability to cry.  I didn't even cry when my father died in 2009.  I haven't cried in years.  But I have cried several times in the past couple of days, because of the thought of my beloved dog being sick.
> 
> Can't cry around her anymore, though.  It bothers her, so I have to toughen up.
> 
> Vet today at 3:50 p.m.  Oh, and the leg wound has busted open, I think it needs to be resectioned and stitched up.  But if she has a heart murmur, will the anesthesia be a great risk?  Thank God for my vet, he is no nonsense and he knows what he's doing.
> 
> I always think of the worst case scenario.
Click to expand...



we all love to varying degrees....that is the guilt sometimes too...when we feel like we didnt love enough.....

a wise women who worked rescue told me one time....you cant save them all.....
and that is so true...

its good to have a vet you can trust who wont lead you astray to get money....

good luck honey....we will all be here waiting for the report....may the fates and muses be kind


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## strollingbones

Jeremiah said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most everything that has a heart has a murmur of some sort.
> 
> Don't freak.
> 
> Keep any eye on her. Take her for regular visits to the vet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spoken like a man who has no idea about this and dobermans....
> 
> *hugs koosh*
> 
> okay sweetie....we both know what i am about to say will hurt...but it has to be said...
> i will not give you false hope at all...i think you know this is more than a murmur....as you said she is losing weight...and you are starting to realize it...i hope its only a murmur....i hope against all hope...
> 
> now the worst...i cant encourage you to got to the medical ends with this...its a horrible way for a doberman to die and its hell on the family....watching and waiting for the last breath...
> 
> you are a doberman lover and owner...you will be expected to be that....be brave...get your shit together and stop crying...that scares them....you know that...(your realize i am crying my eyes out right now over this hardcore advice i must give you)
> 
> you will not be alone....we are here...we cannot help you much but we can help you when you are in pain and if the decision is the worst we will be here....
> 
> *hugs koosh again*  remember dear....no one cries alone in the pet forum when our pets are in trouble...we will hope for the best and prepare for the worst........
> 
> for those non doberman owners....this is like finding our your cat has kidney problems....no real treatment at all.....i have never seen a doberman owner face this problem and not suffer.....its guilt ridden......just guilt ridden....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let us allow Koosh to decide whether she prefers to believe your report or the report of the Lord which is that God does hear the prayers of his people and that His Word does not return back void unto him but will go forth to perform the work it was sent to do.  This is according to Koosh's faith and my faith.  NOT YOURS STROLLINGBONES.
> 
> - Jeri
Click to expand...


faith?   you know nothing about my faith...now take your yelling at me and fuck off


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## Wolfsister77

Kooshdakhaa said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea it does suck.....but its the decision we make when we get a puppy or kitten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, you do have a point.  I had that same thought just yesterday, I thought, "What was I thinking when I got that puppy!?"
> 
> Of course, I knew on some level that she would eventually die.  What I didn't know is how much I would love her.
> 
> I have 12 animals, 8 rescued, and some of those rescued animals I don't really love at all.  I have compassion for them, affection for them, I care for them...but I don't love them the way I love this dog.
> 
> I have often thought she is someone I knew in a past life, the bond is so strong.  I have looked at her and said, "Who ARE you!?"  There is something so special about her.
> 
> But if that is true, perhaps there is purpose to all this...perhaps we will meet again and I'll be able to say, "Oh, that was YOU!" and we will laugh.
> 
> At least she has broken through my inability to cry.  I didn't even cry when my father died in 2009.  I haven't cried in years.  But I have cried several times in the past couple of days, because of the thought of my beloved dog being sick.
> 
> Can't cry around her anymore, though.  It bothers her, so I have to toughen up.
> 
> Vet today at 3:50 p.m.  Oh, and the leg wound has busted open, I think it needs to be resectioned and stitched up.  But if she has a heart murmur, will the anesthesia be a great risk?  Thank God for my vet, he is no nonsense and he knows what he's doing.
> 
> I always think of the worst case scenario.
Click to expand...


Waiting for the appointment is the worst. I've been there. Almost as bad as waiting for test results. 

 I truly hope and wish that you can get the meds and she can have a couple more years of good life. 

And I understand loving dogs too. I've loved all my dogs but my last two were special. There was a real bond there. I know exactly what you mean.

Best wishes. Let us know.


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## strollingbones

we have to factor in the time zone....she is in alaska   i am exhausted and simply refuse to do the math  maybe 6 30 ish our time or est


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## Gracie

It will be 11 weeks this coming saturday since I lost my beloved Gracie. It seems like...yesterday and at the same time..years ago. But I think of her every day, miss her sweet face and hugs and gentle kisses she gave me and I wrestled on whether I murdered her or did the right thing. The vet said I did the right thing. But it was not a soothing, quiet, pensive moment when they inserted that needle. It was horrible. I never ever want to witness that again. But the seizures were the worst...and getting stronger the day I said "enough honey. Time to go to God".

Do I still cry for her? Yes. But not as much. Does the rest of the pack still mourn her? Yes. All of us have changed. But Gracie is with God. HE is taking care of her. She is safe with Him. And there is no tumor growing in that sweet gentle head any more.

I hope Greta has a happy many years left, Koosh. And she just might surprise everyone. Just promise her that you will do what needs done...and ask her mentally and verbally to TELL YOU when SHE is ready. How is this done? You will know. Just like I did. Will it tear your heart out? Yes. But you have to be strong for her and the rest of your pack. And I know you will be.
Greta had a wonderful life with you. She loves you. You lvoe her. Enjoy what time you have left with her. But I STILL pray and hope she last to at least 15 years old and is not suffering at all in that time frame. At least, that is what my prayers are for you. 15 years. Pain free.

Now it is up to God...and Greta.


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## syrenn

Jeremiah said:


> Let us allow Koosh to decide whether she prefers to believe your report or the report of the Lord which is that God does hear the prayers of his people and that His Word does not return back void unto him but will go forth to perform the work it was sent to do.  This is according to Koosh's faith and my faith.  NOT YOURS STROLLINGBONES.
> 
> - Jeri





Jeremiah said:


> When in doubt?  Cast it out.  With God all things are possible.   - Jeri




I tell ya jeri, when it comes to beloved pets, there is no when it doubt cast it out. Most people want to hang on to them until the bitter end... for selfish reasons of not wanting to let them go. 

There comes a time when you need to do what is best for the animal... not what is best for us. 

In my opinion, if there is any chance of quality life.... do what ever needs to be done to give them that chance. If there is no hope, and they are in pain and suffering... then they should be let go, put down. It is not right, or loving.... to allow them to suffer. 

I am pretty sure koosh knows this too.


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## Gracie

syrenn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let us allow Koosh to decide whether she prefers to believe your report or the report of the Lord which is that God does hear the prayers of his people and that His Word does not return back void unto him but will go forth to perform the work it was sent to do.  This is according to Koosh's faith and my faith.  NOT YOURS STROLLINGBONES.
> 
> - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> When in doubt?  Cast it out.  With God all things are possible.   - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I tell ya jeri, when it comes to beloved pets, there is no when it doubt cast it out. Most people want to hang on to them until the bitter end... for selfish reasons of not wanting to let them go.
> 
> There comes a time when you need to do what is best for the animal... not what is best for us.
> 
> In my opinion, if there is any chance of quality life.... do what ever needs to be done to give them that chance. If there is no hope, and they are in pain and suffering... then they should be let go, put down. It is not right, or loving.... to allow them to suffer.
> 
> I am pretty sure koosh knows this too.
Click to expand...


Perfectly said. I swore to Gracie she would not suffer. She lasted 8 months on the meds that did nothing for the tumor growing in her head which we thought was epilepsy. She started seizing again the night before. Every 2 frigging hours. She was exhausted by the time I got her to the vet the next day...and so was I. I took her, and had her put down. She was gone by 11ish that morning. For keeps.

It broke my heart. Broke it. But...she was suffering. It was time. Koosh will do the same.


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## syrenn

Gracie said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let us allow Koosh to decide whether she prefers to believe your report or the report of the Lord which is that God does hear the prayers of his people and that His Word does not return back void unto him but will go forth to perform the work it was sent to do.  This is according to Koosh's faith and my faith.  NOT YOURS STROLLINGBONES.
> 
> - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> When in doubt?  Cast it out.  With God all things are possible.   - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I tell ya jeri, when it comes to beloved pets, there is no when it doubt cast it out. Most people want to hang on to them until the bitter end... for selfish reasons of not wanting to let them go.
> 
> There comes a time when you need to do what is best for the animal... not what is best for us.
> 
> In my opinion, if there is any chance of quality life.... do what ever needs to be done to give them that chance. If there is no hope, and they are in pain and suffering... then they should be let go, put down. It is not right, or loving.... to allow them to suffer.
> 
> I am pretty sure koosh knows this too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perfectly said. I swore to Gracie she would not suffer. She lasted 8 months on the meds that did nothing for the tumor growing in her head which we thought was epilepsy. She started seizing again the night before. Every 2 frigging hours. She was exhausted by the time I got her to the vet the next day...and so was I. I took her, and had her put down. She was gone by 11ish that morning. For keeps.
> 
> It broke my heart. Broke it. But...she was suffering. It was time. Koosh will do the same.
Click to expand...



i know, my poor farina...i gave him every chance.... more and over and above what most would have done. And once it was clear he was not going to pull through i held him close as they put him down....  

http://www.usmessageboard.com/pets/196150-farina.html


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## Gracie

Farina IS beautiful. Not was. Is.
My FattyCat was the only cat I ever loved. I am not a cat person. I like them, but I don't connect with them like I do dogs. Fatty chose ME. He was 8, wild, and it took me 6 months to get him to just come in the slider door to eat AND let me pet him lightly. Another 6 months before he finally did it on his own, discovered hubby's rocking chair and plopped in it. Once he did...he claimed us as his own. He lived to age 23. He had one eye. No teeth. NONE. And he was my lovebug. Bone cancer got him. He went peacefully, in my arms, as they inserted the needle.

Another piece of my heart...dead. Broken. No repair. I have 3 left in the pack. When they all go...then I hope I don't last long and can go be with them all.

Which is why I pray that Greta hangs out for quite a few more years with Mom taking very good care of her.


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## syrenn

Gracie said:


> Farina IS beautiful. Not was. Is.
> My FattyCat was the only cat I ever loved. I am not a cat person. I like them, but I don't connect with them like I do dogs. Fatty chose ME. He was 8, wild, and it took me 6 months to get him to just come in the slider door to eat AND let me pet him lightly. Another 6 months before he finally did it on his own, discovered hubby's rocking chair and plopped in it. Once he did...he claimed us as his own. He lived to age 23. He had one eye. No teeth. NONE. And he was my lovebug. Bone cancer got him. He went peacefully, in my arms, as they inserted the needle.
> 
> Another piece of my heart...dead. Broken. No repair. I have 3 left in the pack. When they all go...then I hope I don't last long and can go be with them all.
> 
> Which is why I pray that Greta hangs out for quite a few more years with Mom taking very good care of her.



he was, and i miss him.    We did all we could, we gave him the best chances....  and we still put him down. He was only a year and a half old.


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## Kooshdakhaa

You guys are awesome.  I'm glad to have you here supporting me.

Well, the vet visit went well.  I have a wonderful vet.  He has taken care of Greta since she was six weeks old.

He said this.  Yes, there is a murmur.  But we don't need the expense of an ultrasound to check out the heart.  We will do an...EKG?  I think that's what he said...I'm so tired.  Anyway, they can do it right there in his office but will be connected to a cardiologist in Seattle.  When the test is done the cardiologist will analyze the results.  My vet says this will give us all the information we need to know which meds to get her on for her heart.

There is no fluid in her lungs at this point. She is not coughing.  Her energy level is good.  She has lost weight but they say her weight is excellent.  She is not underweight.  So we may have caught this at the point where meds will delay the onset of actual heart disease...could be quite a while.

But my vet also said this...we need to get her leg healed first.  The wound had opened up and he stapled it closed to give it a chance to heal.  No anesthesia, but she's a tough dog.  He said she's on enough meds right now with the antibiotics and painkillers, he doesn't want to add heart meds into the mix just yet.  When the leg is healed in a couple of weeks and she's off all those pills we will proceed. 

I feel full of hope.  And I did pray.  I only asked once, just once, for God to let her be okay. 

I'm going to research things I can do to strengthen her heart like Gracie suggested.  I've done just a little reading already, interested in primrose, etc.  I'll do the best I possibly can for her.

But I feel much better.  We will get her on the appropriate meds and hope for the best.  Since she has no symptoms such as shortness of breath, coughing or lethargy, etc. I think we may have caught this early and the meds will be able to prolong her life.

This certainly put all my other worries in perspective.  I have financial concerns, changes at work that I'm worried about and my marriage has seen better days.  But everything pales in comparison to my concern for Greta.


----------



## strollingbones

that is wonderful news.....from here we go to getting the leg healed...

i am so glad this went well for all of you...

financial concerns, work and marriage...are always with us


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Kooshdakhaa said:


> You guys are awesome.  I'm glad to have you here supporting me.
> 
> Well, the vet visit went well.  I have a wonderful vet.  He has taken care of Greta since she was six weeks old.
> 
> He said this.  Yes, there is a murmur.  But we don't need the expense of an ultrasound to check out the heart.  We will do an...EKG?  I think that's what he said...I'm so tired.  Anyway, they can do it right there in his office but will be connected to a cardiologist in Seattle.  When the test is done the cardiologist will analyze the results.  My vet says this will give us all the information we need to know which meds to get her on for her heart.
> 
> There is no fluid in her lungs at this point. She is not coughing.  Her energy level is good.  She has lost weight but they say her weight is excellent.  She is not underweight.  So we may have caught this at the point where meds will delay the onset of actual heart disease...could be quite a while.
> 
> But my vet also said this...we need to get her leg healed first.  The wound had opened up and he stapled it closed to give it a chance to heal.  No anesthesia, but she's a tough dog.  He said she's on enough meds right now with the antibiotics and painkillers, he doesn't want to add heart meds into the mix just yet.  When the leg is healed in a couple of weeks and she's off all those pills we will proceed.
> 
> I feel full of hope.  And I did pray.  I only asked once, just once, for God to let her be okay.
> 
> I'm going to research things I can do to strengthen her heart like Gracie suggested.  I've done just a little reading already, interested in primrose, etc.  I'll do the best I possibly can for her.
> 
> But I feel much better.  We will get her on the appropriate meds and hope for the best.  Since she has no symptoms such as shortness of breath, coughing or lethargy, etc. I think we may have caught this early and the meds will be able to prolong her life.
> 
> This certainly put all my other worries in perspective.  I have financial concerns, changes at work that I'm worried about and my marriage has seen better days.  But everything pales in comparison to my concern for Greta.



I am so blessed to read your report this morning, Koosh!  I too prayed for Greta with my husband this morning and we agreed for Greta to be completely healed and that not only would she be healed but that the LORD would add 10 years to her life - even as He added 10 years to Hezekiah's life with "no trouble to it"! 

 This means that Greta will not be limping along in life - as if half healed and suffering along in old age but rather enjoying the fullness of her life to the very end without a drop of trouble!  When God gives a Blessing he adds no trouble to it!  None! 

 All doubt as to God's will concerning Greta's health and future has indeed been "Cast Out" this morning I believe with all my heart, Koosh, that we have got His answer, "yes"  and once again this board shall see yet another animal healed by His Mighty power!  Hallelujah and Amen! 

Also!  My deepest apologies to Strollingbones as I should not have used capitol letters in  defending the faith for Gretas healing - as I can fully understand how she would have taken it as a direct attack on her own faith and truly I pray she be most blessed this morning.

 I am very sorry for using the capitol letters, Strollingbones, you are right, that is like shouting and is very rude.  Love is not rude.  I do repent of doing that as I was wrong to do such a thing.  Again, I sincerely apologise to you.  Also Strollingbones, you may send me an email or PM anytime and I will count it a great blessing always.   Be blessed and have a beautiful day!!   With Love, Jeri


----------



## Wolfsister77

That's great news, so glad you may have caught this early. Made me smile today.


----------



## Gracie

What happened to Greta's leg? Is it high or low on it? Make sure she doesn't chew the staples or paw at it with her feet. When my dogs get an owie, I put baby socks on their feetsies, then use masking tape above the top of the sock and around the top of the sock to keep it in place but doesn't cut off circulation. Works like a charm. They tend to not scratch with that sock on.
My dogs never have had those cone things cuz the socks work just as well.


----------



## syrenn

Great news!!!!


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Gracie said:


> What happened to Greta's leg? Is it high or low on it? Make sure she doesn't chew the staples or paw at it with her feet. When my dogs get an owie, I put baby socks on their feetsies, then use masking tape above the top of the sock and around the top of the sock to keep it in place but doesn't cut off circulation. Works like a charm. They tend to not scratch with that sock on.
> My dogs never have had those cone things cuz the socks work just as well.



She has a bad bite on her lower front leg.  Just took seconds, a spat over a chewed up piece of bully stick. Damn Sharpei bit her.  God forgive me, but I hate that Sharpei.  Wish I'd just left her wandering around out on the streets, let somebody else do something for a change.  This is the second time she has badly bitten Greta on the leg.  This is not acceptable.

Anyway, I do have the cone on Greta.  All dogs are different.  Hannah had a bite or something on her lower leg and just had a bandage around it from the vet, and she never touched it.  Didn't need the cone at all.  Greta is different.  She will tear through anything.  I can't take a chance.

As a matter of fact, I took the cone off so she could go outside and go to the bathroom, and when she came back in the wound was all opened up and bleeding.  Now it doesn't come off unless I am in the position to watch her every move.   Tonight she can sit and watch Survivor with me, sans cone.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

You know what I keep realizing?  If Greta and Lucy hadn't gotten into this sudden spat and I hadn't needed to take Greta to the emergency vet Saturday night...we might not have discovered the heart murmur at this early stage...

Hmmm.  Silver linings?


----------



## Coyote

Kooshdakhaa said:


> You guys are awesome.  I'm glad to have you here supporting me.
> 
> Well, the vet visit went well.  I have a wonderful vet.  He has taken care of Greta since she was six weeks old.
> 
> He said this.  Yes, there is a murmur.  But we don't need the expense of an ultrasound to check out the heart.  We will do an...EKG?  I think that's what he said...I'm so tired.  Anyway, they can do it right there in his office but will be connected to a cardiologist in Seattle.  When the test is done the cardiologist will analyze the results.  My vet says this will give us all the information we need to know which meds to get her on for her heart.
> 
> There is no fluid in her lungs at this point. She is not coughing.  Her energy level is good.  She has lost weight but they say her weight is excellent.  She is not underweight.  So we may have caught this at the point where meds will delay the onset of actual heart disease...could be quite a while.
> 
> But my vet also said this...we need to get her leg healed first.  The wound had opened up and he stapled it closed to give it a chance to heal.  No anesthesia, but she's a tough dog.  He said she's on enough meds right now with the antibiotics and painkillers, he doesn't want to add heart meds into the mix just yet.  When the leg is healed in a couple of weeks and she's off all those pills we will proceed.
> 
> I feel full of hope.  And I did pray.  I only asked once, just once, for God to let her be okay.
> 
> I'm going to research things I can do to strengthen her heart like Gracie suggested.  I've done just a little reading already, interested in primrose, etc.  I'll do the best I possibly can for her.
> 
> But I feel much better.  We will get her on the appropriate meds and hope for the best.  Since she has no symptoms such as shortness of breath, coughing or lethargy, etc. I think we may have caught this early and the meds will be able to prolong her life.
> 
> This certainly put all my other worries in perspective.  I have financial concerns, changes at work that I'm worried about and my marriage has seen better days.  But everything pales in comparison to my concern for Greta.



I'm glad it went well - I know with Dobies the heart thing is always an issue.  I may have missed it but how old is Greta?

My Abby had a Grade 4 murmer, but lived to almost 15 and died of an unrelated issue.  She never showed symptoms, and they xrayed her and there was no deformation of to indicate the heart was starting to alter.  It might be Greta can manage a long time with this


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Coyote said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are awesome.  I'm glad to have you here supporting me.
> 
> Well, the vet visit went well.  I have a wonderful vet.  He has taken care of Greta since she was six weeks old.
> 
> He said this.  Yes, there is a murmur.  But we don't need the expense of an ultrasound to check out the heart.  We will do an...EKG?  I think that's what he said...I'm so tired.  Anyway, they can do it right there in his office but will be connected to a cardiologist in Seattle.  When the test is done the cardiologist will analyze the results.  My vet says this will give us all the information we need to know which meds to get her on for her heart.
> 
> There is no fluid in her lungs at this point. She is not coughing.  Her energy level is good.  She has lost weight but they say her weight is excellent.  She is not underweight.  So we may have caught this at the point where meds will delay the onset of actual heart disease...could be quite a while.
> 
> But my vet also said this...we need to get her leg healed first.  The wound had opened up and he stapled it closed to give it a chance to heal.  No anesthesia, but she's a tough dog.  He said she's on enough meds right now with the antibiotics and painkillers, he doesn't want to add heart meds into the mix just yet.  When the leg is healed in a couple of weeks and she's off all those pills we will proceed.
> 
> I feel full of hope.  And I did pray.  I only asked once, just once, for God to let her be okay.
> 
> I'm going to research things I can do to strengthen her heart like Gracie suggested.  I've done just a little reading already, interested in primrose, etc.  I'll do the best I possibly can for her.
> 
> But I feel much better.  We will get her on the appropriate meds and hope for the best.  Since she has no symptoms such as shortness of breath, coughing or lethargy, etc. I think we may have caught this early and the meds will be able to prolong her life.
> 
> This certainly put all my other worries in perspective.  I have financial concerns, changes at work that I'm worried about and my marriage has seen better days.  But everything pales in comparison to my concern for Greta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad it went well - I know with Dobies the heart thing is always an issue.  I may have missed it but how old is Greta?
> 
> My Abby had a Grade 4 murmer, but lived to almost 15 and died of an unrelated issue.  She never showed symptoms, and they xrayed her and there was no deformation of to indicate the heart was starting to alter.  It might be Greta can manage a long time with this
Click to expand...


Greta will be 10 years old on October 24.  I've had her since she was six weeks and one day old.  Her personality was already formed at that early age...she is extremely intelligent, willful and sassy with a mind of her own, but obedient when she knows I really mean it.  

Your Abby?  Abbysinian cat?  I have an Abbysinian cat also.  Her name is Bast.   Bast just turned 13.

Cats tend to live longer than medium-large sized dogs I think.

But your post is nonetheless very encouraging to me.  Thanks!


----------



## Coyote

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are awesome.  I'm glad to have you here supporting me.
> 
> Well, the vet visit went well.  I have a wonderful vet.  He has taken care of Greta since she was six weeks old.
> 
> He said this.  Yes, there is a murmur.  But we don't need the expense of an ultrasound to check out the heart.  We will do an...EKG?  I think that's what he said...I'm so tired.  Anyway, they can do it right there in his office but will be connected to a cardiologist in Seattle.  When the test is done the cardiologist will analyze the results.  My vet says this will give us all the information we need to know which meds to get her on for her heart.
> 
> There is no fluid in her lungs at this point. She is not coughing.  Her energy level is good.  She has lost weight but they say her weight is excellent.  She is not underweight.  So we may have caught this at the point where meds will delay the onset of actual heart disease...could be quite a while.
> 
> But my vet also said this...we need to get her leg healed first.  The wound had opened up and he stapled it closed to give it a chance to heal.  No anesthesia, but she's a tough dog.  He said she's on enough meds right now with the antibiotics and painkillers, he doesn't want to add heart meds into the mix just yet.  When the leg is healed in a couple of weeks and she's off all those pills we will proceed.
> 
> I feel full of hope.  And I did pray.  I only asked once, just once, for God to let her be okay.
> 
> I'm going to research things I can do to strengthen her heart like Gracie suggested.  I've done just a little reading already, interested in primrose, etc.  I'll do the best I possibly can for her.
> 
> But I feel much better.  We will get her on the appropriate meds and hope for the best.  Since she has no symptoms such as shortness of breath, coughing or lethargy, etc. I think we may have caught this early and the meds will be able to prolong her life.
> 
> This certainly put all my other worries in perspective.  I have financial concerns, changes at work that I'm worried about and my marriage has seen better days.  But everything pales in comparison to my concern for Greta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad it went well - I know with Dobies the heart thing is always an issue.  I may have missed it but how old is Greta?
> 
> My Abby had a Grade 4 murmer, but lived to almost 15 and died of an unrelated issue.  She never showed symptoms, and they xrayed her and there was no deformation of to indicate the heart was starting to alter.  It might be Greta can manage a long time with this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Greta will be 10 years old on October 24.  I've had her since she was six weeks and one day old.  Her personality was already formed at that early age...she is extremely intelligent, willful and sassy with a mind of her own, but obedient when she knows I really mean it.
> 
> Your Abby?  Abbysinian cat?  I have an Abbysinian cat also.  Her name is Bast.   Bast just turned 13.
> 
> Cats tend to live longer than medium-large sized dogs I think.
> 
> But your post is nonetheless very encouraging to me.  Thanks!
Click to expand...


Abby was actually a dog - a bc/sheltie sort of mix   But it's funny you mention Abbysinians - I love those cats!  I don't have one now, but I've had several over my life and they've been big personalities in a small package!

Dobies are sweet dogs - I've always liked them in our dog classes.  Everyone has been a lover


----------



## Connery

I am only as happy as my sickest dog....Prayers and thoughts are with you guys. My dogs have lived to 17 years old and there is not one day that goes by where I do nothing about them and talk to them and cherish the wonderful gift of love and selflessness they have given me.


----------



## Gracie

Don't be mad at the Sharpei, hon. Like you said...if it weren't for that little spat, you would not have known about the murmur.

Gracie and Moki got into a squabble once. Just once. Moki clamped down on Gracies ear and Gracie was swinging moki around in the air. Blood everywhere (ears bleed a lot). I broke them up and after a bit of time, they began to treat each other with respect. Moki knew not to take Gracie's stuffed animals, Gracie knew not to let her ear get too close to Moki's mouth. When they began to play with each other and one nipped too hard and the other yelped, they immediately stopped and licked each other like "sorry!".

Dogs. They are awesome.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

I've been spelling Abyssinian wrong. 

I can hear my schoolteacher parents tut-tutting up in Heaven.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Well, now, Gracie, I'm not sure I would call it a "little" spat.  Two vet visits and meds totalling about $290 now.  A follow-up vet visit scheduled for this Friday.  And poor Greta not getting out for walks and runs for many days while the leg heals.  And when Greta doesn't get to go, no one goes.  (Although we have a fairly large back yard for them to run around in if they want to.)  And having to wear the cone.  Not to mention the stress I don't need right now.

When it gets to that level I consider it a tad more than a little spat!

I dislike this Sharpei very much.  Horrible breed of dog.  I don't know, maybe she was sent here to teach me something...that I'm a terrible person, perhaps.  My quality  of life is depreciated by having her in it.

And I feel like a complete asshole for feeling that way.  But I can't help it, it's how I feel.   I've tried to change my attitude about her, but I can't.  It went south when she bit Greta the first time a few years ago when I first brought her into the house.  I fear for her safety if she does it again in the near future.

Ever since I rescued her I feel like I'm being punished for trying to do something good.

I know...shocking admissions from an avowed animal-lover.


----------



## Gracie

Not shocking. Honest commentary. What you need to do, hon, is rehome her. She feels your dislike. It is not good for her. For Greta. For you. Find her a new home asap. I know you will make SURE it is a good home because you DO love animals, hon. She is just not a good fit for you so it would be the best thing for all of you. Put an ad in Craigslist with a fee to make sure whomever calls is serious in wanting a sharpei or find a Sharpei Rescue group that will take her and tell them why. They will take care of her.

I know a gal looking for another sharpei but I don't know if she wants a grown dog or a puppy. Do you want me to put you two in touch with each other? I think she lives in N Carolina? Not sure how you guys would transport the dog even if she did want it.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Gracie said:


> Not shocking. Honest commentary. What you need to do, hon, is rehome her. She feels your dislike. It is not good for her. For Greta. For you. Find her a new home asap. I know you will make SURE it is a good home because you DO love animals, hon. She is just not a good fit for you so it would be the best thing for all of you. Put an ad in Craigslist with a fee to make sure whomever calls is serious in wanting a sharpei or find a Sharpei Rescue group that will take her and tell them why. They will take care of her.
> 
> I know a gal looking for another sharpei but I don't know if she wants a grown dog or a puppy. Do you want me to put you two in touch with each other? I think she lives in N Carolina? Not sure how you guys would transport the dog even if she did want it.



I would not want to transport, Lucy, I think it would traumatize her.  You see, even the way I feel about he I still have compassion.  And she is not treated badly at my house, she is well-cared for.  I make sure to mention her name and pat her on the head...you know, not ignore her.

But I think you're right about rehoming her.  That's what I wanted to do a few years ago when I first rescued her off the streets.  I had to borrow a trap from Animal Control to catch her, she wouldn't come to anyone.  After we got her socialized a little, and cleaned up, I told my husband I was going to find a good home for her and he had a little fit.  "You're going to GIVE HER AWAY????"  He asked, like I was some kind of monster or something.  So I kept her.  And, of course, husband does absolutely nothing to take care of her. 

My vet  suggested contact Friends of Pets to see if they could help in rehoming her.  She would be traumatized at first, but she would respond quickly to love, I am sure.  She is actually very sweet.  

Still not sure what the hell the Chinese were thinking when they developed the breed.  Oh, yeah, that's right...fighting dog.  That's why the skin is all loose, they can be bitten but all that loose skin protects them from serious injury.  And it works.


----------



## Gracie

I think rehoming her would be a good move. I know you show her affection but....she can still feel your dislike. She also knows you love greta more and maybe she is jealous of that love. Dogs are smart. She knows how you feel about her. My mother told me she loved me too....but she didn't. She felt like you do...ashamed, sad, but she just could not love me. I felt that unlove all my life even though she would buy my presents, say the right things, etc. She would pet me once in awhile too but the touch was lacking. She may as well have been petting a wall...and the comfort I got from those pets was about as pleasant as being pet by a soft bristled hair brush. I knew. And she knew I knew. But what could she do? Nothing. I eventually hated her. And I hated my sister too because my sister was her favorite being on the whole earth. My dad made up for it...but like your husband, he knew and was aghast but did nothing except try now and then to show love for his little girl. Still..it was not enough. When he died....I bailed out of that house and my mother at 16 years old. I never went back. I hated it there. No love. Just a shitload of pretend.
Your little sharpei needs to go where she is number one. Not number two. And no matter the petting or taking good care of her or even using her name. She KNOWS.


----------



## Wolfsister77

When I worked in a Vet clinic I was very wary whenever I saw a Sharpei or a Chow. They were always the two breeds who tried to bite the most. Akita's weren't great either.

I guess, the best advice is what you've already been given. See about finding her a new home with someone that knows the breed and maybe doesn't have other dogs.

Best of luck!!


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Well, we went for a recheck on Greta's leg wounds.  The vet stapled the worst bite up last time we were there.  The wound is looking good, the infection is gone and healing is evident.  He rebandaged and said to keep the bandage on 3-4 days.  About 10 days from now the wound should be healed enough for him to remove the staples.  By then she will be done with her antibiotics and we can see about that electrocardiogram and maybe getting her on some heart meds.

One step at a time.


----------



## Wolfsister77

Glad to hear wound is getting better.


----------



## Noomi

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Well, we went for a recheck on Greta's leg wounds.  The vet stapled the worst bite up last time we were there.  The wound is looking good, the infection is gone and healing is evident.  He rebandaged and said to keep the bandage on 3-4 days.  About 10 days from now the wound should be healed enough for him to remove the staples.  By then she will be done with her antibiotics and we can see about that electrocardiogram and maybe getting her on some heart meds.
> 
> One step at a time.



Thanks for keeping us updated!


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Another update on Greta.  I became  worried over the weekend because her breathing became rapid and kind of labored.  Not panting, but breathing rapidly with her mouth closed even when at rest.  She was still eating and we went out for a walk and she was fine and was running and chasing balls a little bit.  But Sunday night I became very worried.  This is another sign of the heart disease and can mean fluids are building up in the lungs making it hard for her to get enough oxygen.

Called the vet first thing this morning.  He said check her at Noon and then call him.  She was still breathing fast, so I took her in at 2pm today.  She is okay, he doesn't hear a LOT of fluid build up in her lungs, but subscribed a diuretic to help get rid of fluids.  I'll start her on that when I get off work.

Her leg is healing well, he put a new bandage on....says we'll recheck that in a week.  And once again, the plan is still to have an electrocardiogram and then he'll know what meds to prescribe for her once she's off all these antibiotics for her leg wound.  I don't think there's much doubt that this is the start of a heart condition.  It's really just a matter of how much quality life she'll have left.  I'm hoping it'll be a few years if we caught this early enough.

And of course I'm going to be researching every possible remedy and herbs or foods to bolster the heart.  I'm anxious to get the electrocardiogram done so we know more what we're dealing with.  We'll see what effect the diuretics have on her breathing.


----------



## syrenn

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Another update on Greta.  I became  worried over the weekend because her breathing became rapid and kind of labored.  Not panting, but breathing rapidly with her mouth closed even when at rest.  She was still eating and we went out for a walk and she was fine and was running and chasing balls a little bit.  But Sunday night I became very worried.  This is another sign of the heart disease and can mean fluids are building up in the lungs making it hard for her to get enough oxygen.
> 
> Called the vet first thing this morning.  He said check her at Noon and then call him.  She was still breathing fast, so I took her in at 2pm today.  She is okay, he doesn't hear a LOT of fluid build up in her lungs, but subscribed a diuretic to help get rid of fluids.  I'll start her on that when I get off work.
> 
> Her leg is healing well, he put a new bandage on....says we'll recheck that in a week.  And once again, the plan is still to have an electrocardiogram and then he'll know what meds to prescribe for her once she's off all these antibiotics for her leg wound.  I don't think there's much doubt that this is the start of a heart condition.  It's really just a matter of how much quality life she'll have left.  I'm hoping it'll be a few years if we caught this early enough.
> 
> And of course I'm going to be researching every possible remedy and herbs or foods to bolster the heart.  I'm anxious to get the electrocardiogram done so we know more what we're dealing with.  We'll see what effect the diuretics have on her breathing.




thanks for the updates on your baby Gretta. My fingers are crossed!


----------



## Coyote

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Another update on Greta.  I became  worried over the weekend because her breathing became rapid and kind of labored.  Not panting, but breathing rapidly with her mouth closed even when at rest.  She was still eating and we went out for a walk and she was fine and was running and chasing balls a little bit.  But Sunday night I became very worried.  This is another sign of the heart disease and can mean fluids are building up in the lungs making it hard for her to get enough oxygen.
> 
> Called the vet first thing this morning.  He said check her at Noon and then call him.  She was still breathing fast, so I took her in at 2pm today.  She is okay, he doesn't hear a LOT of fluid build up in her lungs, but subscribed a diuretic to help get rid of fluids.  I'll start her on that when I get off work.
> 
> Her leg is healing well, he put a new bandage on....says we'll recheck that in a week.  And once again, the plan is still to have an electrocardiogram and then he'll know what meds to prescribe for her once she's off all these antibiotics for her leg wound.  I don't think there's much doubt that this is the start of a heart condition.  It's really just a matter of how much quality life she'll have left.  I'm hoping it'll be a few years if we caught this early enough.
> 
> And of course I'm going to be researching every possible remedy and herbs or foods to bolster the heart.  I'm anxious to get the electrocardiogram done so we know more what we're dealing with.  We'll see what effect the diuretics have on her breathing.



(((HUGS))) to you and Greta...it does sound worrisome.  Diuretics should help give her some relief.  My friend's papillion was on them for over a year and it greatly improved his quality of life.


----------



## strollingbones

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Well, now, Gracie, I'm not sure I would call it a "little" spat.  Two vet visits and meds totalling about $290 now.  A follow-up vet visit scheduled for this Friday.  And poor Greta not getting out for walks and runs for many days while the leg heals.  And when Greta doesn't get to go, no one goes.  (Although we have a fairly large back yard for them to run around in if they want to.)  And having to wear the cone.  Not to mention the stress I don't need right now.
> 
> 
> spat is just sound and fury signifying nothing
> 
> When it gets to that level I consider it a tad more than a little spat!
> 
> it is a dog fight when you have to vet one of the dogs
> 
> I dislike this Sharpei very much.  Horrible breed of dog.  I don't know, maybe she was sent here to teach me something...that I'm a terrible person, perhaps.  My quality  of life is depreciated by having her in it.
> 
> And I feel like a complete asshole for feeling that way.  But I can't help it, it's how I feel.   I've tried to change my attitude about her, but I can't.  It went south when she bit Greta the first time a few years ago when I first brought her into the house.  I fear for her safety if she does it again in the near future.
> 
> Ever since I rescued her I feel like I'm being punished for trying to do something good.
> 
> I know...shocking admissions from an avowed animal-lover.



no its not....she has disturbed your home...can you rehome the sharpei...again it may make you feel shitty but would it be the best for the dogs?  not only gracie but the sharpei?


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## strollingbones

an aside for a chuckle or two....

hubby has buddy the weird looking mixed breed mostly corgi....

corgi's were the favored mount of warrior fairies and were given to the welsh in thanks by the wood fairies..their markings indicate where the warrior fairies saddle and bridles were...

corgi's have been raised in the royal family for 7 decades.....


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## Coyote

Several things occur to me regarding the Sharpei.  One is bitches fight far worse then males - and they tend to go for maximum damage (males are often more bluster and noise).  A deep puncture to the leg indicates serious intent - to take the other dog down.  The Sharpei may have already been recognizing signs in Greta that she was not well and be taking advantage of that to assert her position (claim to resources etc).

You are probably already doing this but it bears repeating - protect Greta.  Monitor them when they are together and don't leave them together unsupervised (crate the Sharpei maybe). 

I'm always super cautious with my old dogs for exactly those reasons and it's not necessarily that the Sharpei is bad but she's a dog and acting like a dog would.


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## strollingbones

o good point...when jake was on the down hill...when he would get near thor...thor would growl and back him off....they had been together for years...my vet said its normal pack behavior and that is why the old dogs will go off to die..or hide...its not pretty to think about but dogs live by a pack behavior and die by pack behavior


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## Coyote

strollingbones said:


> o good point...when jake was on the down hill...when he would get near thor...thor would growl and back him off....they had been together for years...my vet said its normal pack behavior and that is why the old dogs will go off to die..or hide...its not pretty to think about but dogs live by a pack behavior and die by pack behavior



I have heard instances where a pack has killed an older dog - often, the old dog, feeling vulnerable or - maybe a little senile, gives off the wrong signals or starts a fight by over reacting and it has ended up being killed.  Not always but when you have multiple dogs it's important to be aware of - and it's not the dogs' fault, they are just being dogs.  My oldest dog now is almost 13.  He has neurological damage in his back end so he is wobbly.  However he will still try to start things - he knows he's vulnerable and he used to be the head dog.  I'm always careful with him and my other male even though my other male is a total wuss and avoids Cowboy.  I just don't leave them together when I'm not home


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## strollingbones

yea...jake was alpha and willing to kill or die to be alpha...thor not so much....buddy is just happy to be here...he was abused at his last home...he belonged to a drunk....it has taken 2 years for him not to run home if someone raises their voice....and he doesnt react to me having a broom now...he seems to know he has found a safe haven....


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## Kooshdakhaa

Coyote said:


> Several things occur to me regarding the Sharpei.  One is bitches fight far worse then males - and they tend to go for maximum damage (males are often more bluster and noise).  A deep puncture to the leg indicates serious intent - to take the other dog down.  The Sharpei may have already been recognizing signs in Greta that she was not well and be taking advantage of that to assert her position (claim to resources etc).
> 
> You are probably already doing this but it bears repeating - protect Greta.  Monitor them when they are together and don't leave them together unsupervised (crate the Sharpei maybe).
> 
> I'm always super cautious with my old dogs for exactly those reasons and it's not necessarily that the Sharpei is bad but she's a dog and acting like a dog would.



Several years ago the Sharpei bit Greta badly on the leg also.  I think it's because of her height...you know, that's the part of Greta that's at mouth level to her.

I hate crating dogs, but the Sharpei gets crated when I'm not home.  I simply do not trust her.  My dobermans have gotten into fights over the years, sometimes necessitating vet visits, but it's not the same, somehow.  For one things the dobie  bites are not as likely to get infected.  The nasty Sharpei bites get infected and these bites on the thin doberman legs are particulary nasty and hard to get healed.  The dobermans tend to bite each other on the butt, and they've been in fights where they don't bite each other at all...just get each other all spitty.  Thank goodness they don't do it much anymore now that they're older!  

Now you're really going to think I'm terrible when I tell you this.  Greta is a doberman and she's the alpha around here.  Do you really think she just folded when Lucy bit her on the leg?  Oh, no, it pissed her off and she tore up Lucy's head pretty bad.  Lucky she didn't put her eyes out.  But that loose Sharpei skin and wrinkles saved her.  And she heals up rather amazingly...I didn't bother with the vet for Lucy's wounds, I've seen how quickly she heals.  Her head and face are pretty scarred up from being stupid enough to mess with the dobermans.

I will not tolerate her biting Greta again.  I'm afraid I'll kill her if she does.  Greta is the center of my universe.

As for monitoring them, I was right in the same room when the fight broke out.  It happened so fast there wasn't much I could do.  Greta had an old chewed up piece of bully stick.  She dropped it on the floor and Lucy went after it.  When Greta rightfully protected her  property,  Lucy bit her.  Lucy starts trouble.  She does it with my other doberman, also.

On one level I have a lot of compassion for Lucy.  But on the other level, I despise her.  It's a toxic situation.


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## Kooshdakhaa

strollingbones said:


> yea...jake was alpha and willing to kill or die to be alpha...thor not so much....buddy is just happy to be here...he was abused at his last home...he belonged to a drunk....it has taken 2 years for him not to run home if someone raises their voice....and he doesnt react to me having a broom now...he seems to know he has found a safe haven....



I know about animals being afraid of brooms!  A couple of the stray cats I took in would run like crazy every time I picked up a broom.  So sad, it's pretty obvious why they reacted that way.  I'm glad to say I can sweep near them now and they just sit and watch me.


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## syrenn

Kooshdakhaa said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea...jake was alpha and willing to kill or die to be alpha...thor not so much....buddy is just happy to be here...he was abused at his last home...he belonged to a drunk....it has taken 2 years for him not to run home if someone raises their voice....and he doesnt react to me having a broom now...he seems to know he has found a safe haven....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know about animals being afraid of brooms!  A couple of the stray cats I took in would run like crazy every time I picked up a broom.  So sad, it's pretty obvious why they reacted that way.  I'm glad to say I can sweep near them now and they just sit and watch me.
Click to expand...


gads.... mine love it when the broom comes out..... its a TOY!!.. look mom...its moving for me to jump on!!  oh oh oh ... a dust ball.... gimmy!!.... look at that nice pile of stuff.... attack and roll!!! 

some love the vacuum too.... they sit right there....i can go right up to them with it. One follows it around the house ..... its pretty darn funny. 

I make a point of sweeping and vacuuming the kitten room... so they aren't afraid of the sounds or motions.....


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## Gracie

You really really really need to rehome the sharpei. Even I can feel your hatred of that dog via your posts. I can also feel your guilt. Don't feel guilty. Just rehome the dog. You are not doing it any favors. It knows it is unloved. Unloved people..and animals...can either go off to die alone...or become vicious. If you really love animals...you will do what is best for the sharpei and that is to remove her from your home and let someone else love her. Preferably someone with no other dogs so she can be alpha.

When Gracie was seizing...karma quietly laid by her side even though she could hav gotten bit. When Gracie stopped and began the pacing, karma stayed right by her and would lick her face from all the slobber and drool. Moki the rat terrier stayed under the bed. The cat would lick Gracies eyes when she finally laid down to rest. I am alpha here. And they all know it. But none want that position anyway. They just showed support for poor Gracie.

This saturday..it will be 12 weeks. All of us are like zombies still. We miss her.


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## Kooshdakhaa

Well, Gracie, I'm actually concerned that she might end up in an abusive situation.  I may not love her, but I make sure she's taken care of.  And as I've mentioned before, I make a point to pet her and say her name so that she feels included in whatever is going on.  I don't abuse her.  And I did save her.

I will start looking into finding her a home, though.  If I can find the right home, I will let her go.


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## Gracie

My mother hated me. She would buy me things though, because of the guilt. I always felt sad when she gave me gifts because I knew it was not really for me..it was for her conscience. Words mean nothing. Not really. The tone, the vibes, the hate...none of made the feelings I got from her made it feel any better when she gave me those presents.
She fucked up my life by doing her duty. I would have rather been with volatile people than with her. So I bailed at a very young age. The sharpei does not have that option. She is doomed to be with someone she knows dislikes her. And her actions show she knows. She takes it out on Greta. And as you said..if she hurts greta in her weakened state...you would probably kill her in a fit of rage. This is why I said it would be in the best interests of yourself, Greta AND yourself to place her somewhere else. A sharpei rescue group will be very thorough in going thru people who express an interest in her. They are very tough when it comes to adopting, so they won't give her to just anyone. Just make sure you tell them all her quirks and that she needs to be in a home with no other dogs. Once she is gone, you will feel more at peace. And so will Greta. And so will the sharpei.

Good luck, hon.


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## strollingbones

o everyone here is pretty chilled now....thor and clark have never known a hard day.....buddy is okay now...he is happy......yoda doesnt seem to remember being left at the end of the drive way and tiff is just a bitch....


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## Zoom-boing

Kooshdakhaa said:


> You know what I keep realizing?  If Greta and Lucy hadn't gotten into this sudden spat and I hadn't needed to take Greta to the emergency vet Saturday night...we might not have discovered the heart murmur at this early stage...
> 
> Hmmm.  Silver linings?



Everything happens for a reason.

Sorry about the heart mummer and fluid.  Hopefully the right meds will help and she will be around for years still.


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## Mertex

Kooshdakhaa said:


> I took my dog to an emergency vet Saturday night.  She has a bite on her leg from a spat with one of my other dogs, and it was starting to look pretty bad, so I took her in.
> 
> That's being treated and has shown improvement, but the bad news is the vet detected a heart murmur.  Now, she's a Doberman, and they have a strong genetic predisposition for heart disease...dilated cardiomyopathy in particular.
> 
> This murmur may be an indicator of that.  In addition, she's lost quite a bit of weight, another possible symptom.
> 
> From what I've read, if her heart has already started to enlarge, she may only have six months to live.  But if it's only the murmur and no changes have occurred with her heart, it's possible that medication can extend her life two and even three years.
> 
> Tomorrow we see her regular vet and then go from there.
> 
> I knew she wouldn't live forever, but God I'm not ready to lose her yet.  She'll be 10 years old on October 24th.  I already have her presents bought and stashed in a closet.
> 
> My sweet Greta.  She is the center of my Universe.



Oh, I feel for you.  We just buried our pet cat of 16 years Freeway, and I know how hard it is to lose a pet.  I hope the vet is wrong and she hangs around a lot longer.


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## Kooshdakhaa

Greta seems much better today.  Her breathing is better and she was much more active today when I took the dogs out for a romp. She's also been in a very good mood.  Either her leg is feeling a lot better or the diuretics the vet put her on are helping.  Or both. We go back to the vet Monday at 3pm to get those damn staples out of her leg.  Then she won't have to wear the cone anymore.  I only make her wear it during the day when I am at work.  At night I have her sleep right by me and I put a leash on her which I hold close all night long. That way if she starts bothering her bandaged leg I'll feel the movement and wake up.  That way she doesn't have to wear the cone when I'm sleeping.   I try to minimize the amount of time she has to have that damn thing on.


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## strollingbones

o yea cone sympathy....i have that..and would take the cone off and sleep next to thor....vet busted me for that...could see where he had chewed,...not much but vet knew the cone was off for times..


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## Wolfsister77

Oh yes, I am all too familiar with cone guilt. We had a dog that was absolutely pitiful with his cone on. Made me feel terrible but he had to have it or he was bugging his ear constantly-he had a hematoma they had to drain. The look he gave me was the worst-how can you do this to me mom?

So yeah, I took it off and he'd go for the ear so he had to wear it. When he could finally get it off, he did the happy dance. 

Too funny.

Glad Greta is feeling better.


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## syrenn

good to know she is feeling better!


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## Kooshdakhaa

strollingbones said:


> o yea cone sympathy....i have that..and would take the cone off and sleep next to thor....vet busted me for that...could see where he had chewed,...not much but vet knew the cone was off for times..



I once experienced the horror of coming into a room and seeing that Greta had ripped her stitches out.  I'm not exaggerating by saying it was a horrifying experience! 

So, everytime I leave her unattended for a few minutes, I know the chance I am taking.  It is a constant battle between the soft-hearted me and the me who is stern and takes care of business. When I'm downstairs I make her stay downstairs, sleep on the couch or whatever so I can keep an eye on her.  If she goes upstairs where I can't watch her, she knows she has to have the cone on.  And sometimes she chooses that, oddly enough.  She'll keep sneaking upstairs until I finally put the cone on her and say, "There, now you can go anywhere you want!"

Sleeping with the leash on seems to be working pretty well.  I literally wrap the leash around my arm so there is about six inches of leash between me and her head.  Any movement and I know it.  We both seem to be able to sleep comfortably that way.   'Cause we're soulmates.


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## Kooshdakhaa

Wolfsister77 said:


> Oh yes, I am all too familiar with cone guilt. We had a dog that was absolutely pitiful with his cone on. Made me feel terrible but he had to have it or he was bugging his ear constantly-he had a hematoma they had to drain. The look he gave me was the worst-how can you do this to me mom?
> 
> So yeah, I took it off and he'd go for the ear so he had to wear it. When he could finally get it off, he did the happy dance.
> 
> Too funny.
> 
> Glad Greta is feeling better.



Yeah, we usually have a little celebration when the evil cone is no longer needed!  I make a big show of putting it away somewhere, out of sight, and then we all dance around and laugh and stuff.


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## Kooshdakhaa

Well, Greta went to the vet yesterday and got the staples out of her leg!  No more bandage, no more cone head!  

This is why I love my vet, I mentioned that we were going to schedule an electrocardiogram and he said to his assistant, can't we just take her back there now and do it?  She said, "We only have eight minutes left on this appointment."  But he told her, that's okay, let's just get it done!    I love him!

Today he called me and said there is a slight arrhythmia.  In Dobermans, the odds are that this is due to cardiomyopathy.  The cardiac specialist recommended that we get an echocardiogram to further analyze what is going on.

So, today at 2:30 p.m. I will be taking her to a specialty clinic to have that test done.

Once again, if some heart diseases are caught early, medications can greatly strengthen the heart, significantly prolonging life.


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## Mertex

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Well, Greta went to the vet yesterday and got the staples out of her leg!  No more bandage, no more cone head!
> 
> This is why I love my vet, I mentioned that we were going to schedule an electrocardiogram and he said to his assistant, can't we just take her back there now and do it?  She said, "We only have eight minutes left on this appointment."  But he told her, that's okay, let's just get it done!    I love him!
> 
> Today he called me and said there is a slight arrhythmia.  In Dobermans, the odds are that this is due to cardiomyopathy.  The cardiac specialist recommended that we get an echocardiogram to further analyze what is going on.
> 
> So, today at 2:30 p.m. I will be taking her to a specialty clinic to have that test done.
> 
> Once again, if some heart diseases are caught early, medications can greatly strengthen the heart, significantly prolonging life.



Glad to hear Greta's rid of bandages and cone.  Bet she's a lot happier.  Hope the heart thing is nothing to worry about.


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## Kooshdakhaa

Mertex said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Greta went to the vet yesterday and got the staples out of her leg!  No more bandage, no more cone head!
> 
> This is why I love my vet, I mentioned that we were going to schedule an electrocardiogram and he said to his assistant, can't we just take her back there now and do it?  She said, "We only have eight minutes left on this appointment."  But he told her, that's okay, let's just get it done!    I love him!
> 
> Today he called me and said there is a slight arrhythmia.  In Dobermans, the odds are that this is due to cardiomyopathy.  The cardiac specialist recommended that we get an echocardiogram to further analyze what is going on.
> 
> So, today at 2:30 p.m. I will be taking her to a specialty clinic to have that test done.
> 
> Once again, if some heart diseases are caught early, medications can greatly strengthen the heart, significantly prolonging life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear Greta's rid of bandages and cone.  Bet she's a lot happier.  Hope the heart thing is nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...


She is ecstatic, Mertex!


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## syrenn

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Well, Greta went to the vet yesterday and got the staples out of her leg!  No more bandage, no more cone head!
> 
> This is why I love my vet, I mentioned that we were going to schedule an electrocardiogram and he said to his assistant, can't we just take her back there now and do it?  She said, "We only have eight minutes left on this appointment."  But he told her, that's okay, let's just get it done!    I love him!
> 
> Today he called me and said there is a slight arrhythmia.  In Dobermans, the odds are that this is due to cardiomyopathy.  The cardiac specialist recommended that we get an echocardiogram to further analyze what is going on.
> 
> So, today at 2:30 p.m. I will be taking her to a specialty clinic to have that test done.
> 
> Once again, if some heart diseases are caught early, medications can greatly strengthen the heart, significantly prolonging life.



thanks for the update hun...... im glad she is not a cone head any more! 

let us know who it goes. 


and great pink avi!!!


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## Kooshdakhaa

Okay, Greta had her echocardiogram.  The specialist vet explained that her heart is not contracting all the way, but she has seen much worse, it is very mild.  Her diagnosis is early dilated cardiomyopathy.  Yes, it's the dreaded dilated cardiomyopathy, but I pretty much knew that would be the case.  But we caught it EARLY.  The heart has not had to enlarge to compensate, yet. So it is quite possible that meds will strengthen the heart enough to slow the disease down considerably and add a few years to her life.

The specialist will consult with my regular vet and they will suggest what to do.  The specialist said sometimes no treatment is done at this point, that this test is a baseline and we do another test in a few months to see how fast the disease is progressing.

I say, no.  We don't wait to see how fast the disease is progressing, we treat it NOW.  Depending on side effects of the meds, of course.  But I don't want to mess around with this.  

I have a lot of reading to do!

I must remember that the vets were going to treat my dog's arthritis with pain meds, with all their potential side effects.  I'm the one who researched and discovered the miracle of Adequan.  Only then did my vet prescribe it and teach me how to give the shots.  And I saw the amazing improvement, so much so that no pain meds are needed.

So I'm going to need to be even more proactive with this condition.


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## syrenn

I agree.... start treatment now.


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## syrenn

how is he doing [MENTION=31092]Kooshdakhaa[/MENTION]


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## Kooshdakhaa

Ah, alas, poor Greta developed some significant symptoms of dilated cardiomyopathy.  She woke me up in the night having trouble breathing, and you could hear the gurgling and fluid in her chest and she was coughing a lot! It was horrible!  We went to the emergency room, the symptoms had pretty much cleared up by the time we got there, but they put her on Lasix to get rid of the fluid.  But they had me on a schedule of reducing the dosage and reduced it too much and the symptoms came back.  What a nightmare.  Luckily, my own vet got involved and got the right mix and dosages of medications going for her.

To make a long story short, she is doing much better now.  She was on enalapril, which is a great heart med, and Lasix to reduce the fluid in her lungs, but my vet also put her on pimobendan, a heart medicine which is known to be very effective in reducing these symptoms and prolonging life.  I also put her on Coenzyme Q10, which is known to be good for the heart in humans as well as dogs.  Oh, and she is also on Spironocactone, another diuretic that works somewhat differently than the Lasix.  Just to cover all the bases.

She hasn't coughed or had labored breathing/fluid in lungs in at least a couple of weeks.  Another symptom was that she has gotten so skinny.  But I think she's starting to gain some weight back.

I don't dare get my hopes up, though, just be grateful for each good day.  It's a terminal illness, it's just a matter of how long it will take to kill her.   Apparently what will happen is the symptoms will eventuallyl start returning in spite of the meds.  We can increase some of the dosages, but eventually...

Well, let's just say a lot of the joy will go out of the world when I lose this dog.  She is the light of my life.  I don't want to be too optimistic because it seems like everytime my mood starts to improve lately the Universe slaps me down again as if I'm being punished for being happy.  Not just with my dog, but with other things that are going on as well.  I know...wah, wah, wah.


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## syrenn

(((hugs)))

i know, its very hard. Im sorry that her condition is getting worse...... but you knew it was coming. Give he all the love you can


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## Kooshdakhaa

Greta has died.  She woke me up at 4:00 a.m. this past Saturday and she was coughing and having trouble breathing.  I took her to the emergency vet and they put her in a kennel with oxygen and also gave her intravaneous Lasix to get the fluid out of her lungs.  But after two hours she was actually getting worse in spite of the treatment.  And this was the correct treatment, I've read about it.

So I made the decision she needed me to make.  I watched the life go out of her eyes.  She died with her eyes open.

My heart is broken.  She was the soul of my home and the light of my life.  Nothing much matters anymore.  I don't know how I'll live without her.

My sweet Greta.  10/24/2003 - 1/4/2014


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## Coyote

I'm so sorry Koosh - there are no words for this   (((((HUGS))))))

What a beautiful girl


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## Wolfsister77

Oh, I am so sorry. I know how painful that is. Big, big ((HUGS)) for you.


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## Connery

I am very sorry Kooshdakhaa...she is now with all our  loved ones who passed, playing and running and keeping watch over us all. I like to think my girls are all telling stories about me and how they manipulated me to get an extra treat or their belly rubbed.


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## syrenn

(((((hugs))))

i am so so sorry


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