# Zundel is released from the gulag



## feduptaxpayer

Well the day is here and Ernst Zundel is a free man. For those who don't know the story, Zundel was thrown in a German gulag for daring to question a so-called historical event ie: the Holocaust. He was thrown in the gulag for five long years because he dared to question an event that took place over 65 years ago. Whether the Holocaust happenned as they say it did or it didn't, no one should be put in prison for questioning any historical event. What was done to him was truly a crime against humanity. There are several European countries that will also throw one in the gulag for daring to question the Hollywood version, as they call it, of the Holocaust. 


They say race does not exist, but at other times, diversity is our greatest strength. What a play on words, uhm?


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## xsited1

What's his USMB handle?


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## L.K.Eder

feduptaxpayer said:


> Well the day is here and Ernst Zundel is a free man. For those who don't know the story, Zundel was thrown in a German gulag for daring to question a so-called historical event ie: the Holocaust. He was thrown in the gulag for five long years because he dared to question an event that took place over 65 years ago. Whether the Holocaust happenned as they say it did or it didn't, no one should be put in prison for questioning any historical event. What was done to him was truly a crime against humanity. There are several European countries that will also throw one in the gulag for daring to question the Hollywood version, as they call it, of the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> They say race does not exist, but at other times, diversity is our greatest strength. What a play on words, uhm?



gulag, you keep using that word. i don't think it means what you think it means.


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## California Girl

If the dude was thrown in a 'gulag' in Germany, WTF is this thread doing in 'Canada'? Am I just being anal about putting shit in the right forum?


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## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> If the dude was thrown in a 'gulag' in Germany, WTF is this thread doing in 'Canada'? Am I just being anal about putting shit in the right forum?



shut up.

zundel was a long time in canada until he was forced to leave.


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## California Girl

L.K.Eder said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the dude was thrown in a 'gulag' in Germany, WTF is this thread doing in 'Canada'? Am I just being anal about putting shit in the right forum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shut up.
> 
> zundel was a long time in canada until he was forced to leave.
Click to expand...


Would you kindly fuck off telling me to shut up. Unless you are Gunny - clearly, you ain't or a Mod - clearly you ain't.  You can shove your 'shut up' where the sun don't shine, whiny boy.


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## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the dude was thrown in a 'gulag' in Germany, WTF is this thread doing in 'Canada'? Am I just being anal about putting shit in the right forum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shut up.
> 
> zundel was a long time in canada until he was forced to leave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you kindly fuck off telling me to shut up. Unless you are Gunny - clearly, you ain't or a Mod - clearly you ain't.  You can shove your 'shut up' where the sun don't shine, whiny boy.
Click to expand...


hey, brat. here is a hint: you are no mod. clearly you take umbrage when someone tells you what to do, then stop doing it to others, you emo-cripple.

you stop your thread-cop routine, then i won't have to tell you to shut up, esp. when you once again reveal that you got nothing but the bad attitude of a spoiled teenager.


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## California Girl

L.K.Eder said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> shut up.
> 
> zundel was a long time in canada until he was forced to leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you kindly fuck off telling me to shut up. Unless you are Gunny - clearly, you ain't or a Mod - clearly you ain't.  You can shove your 'shut up' where the sun don't shine, whiny boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey, brat. here is a hint: you are no mod. clearly you take umbrage when someone tells you what to do, then stop doing it to others, you emo-cripple.
> 
> you stop your thread-cop routine, then i won't have to tell you to shut up, esp. when you once again reveal that you got nothing but the bad attitude of a spoiled teenager.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your input but, unless I'm told by a Mod, it means nothing.... No one died and made you God. I am at liberty to comment as I see fit. So, in generic terms, fuck you.


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## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you kindly fuck off telling me to shut up. Unless you are Gunny - clearly, you ain't or a Mod - clearly you ain't.  You can shove your 'shut up' where the sun don't shine, whiny boy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey, brat. here is a hint: you are no mod. clearly you take umbrage when someone tells you what to do, then stop doing it to others, you emo-cripple.
> 
> you stop your thread-cop routine, then i won't have to tell you to shut up, esp. when you once again reveal that you got nothing but the bad attitude of a spoiled teenager.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input but, unless I'm told by a Mod, it means nothing.... No one died and made you God. I am at liberty to comment as I see fit. So, in generic terms, fuck you.
Click to expand...


don't tell me to fuck me/or fuck off, you are not a mod. you are also off-topic.


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## California Girl

L.K.Eder said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey, brat. here is a hint: you are no mod. clearly you take umbrage when someone tells you what to do, then stop doing it to others, you emo-cripple.
> 
> you stop your thread-cop routine, then i won't have to tell you to shut up, esp. when you once again reveal that you got nothing but the bad attitude of a spoiled teenager.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input but, unless I'm told by a Mod, it means nothing.... No one died and made you God. I am at liberty to comment as I see fit. So, in generic terms, fuck you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> don't tell me to fuck me/or fuck off, you are not a mod. you are also off-topic.
Click to expand...


  Can tell you to fuck off if you can tell me to shut up. Loser.


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## L.K.Eder

California Girl said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input but, unless I'm told by a Mod, it means nothing.... No one died and made you God. I am at liberty to comment as I see fit. So, in generic terms, fuck you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't tell me to fuck me/or fuck off, you are not a mod. you are also off-topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can tell you to fuck off if you can tell me to shut up. Loser.
Click to expand...



you are very slow on the uptake. you get your own medicine. what does it taste like?

quit derailing the topic, idiot.


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## Jos

Here is further information
Ernst Zündel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Home page


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## feduptaxpayer

California Girl said:


> If the dude was thrown in a 'gulag' in Germany, WTF is this thread doing in 'Canada'? Am I just being anal about putting shit in the right forum?




I am not quite sure as to whether you are a blond or anal? Zundel was a Canadian at one time and he was later shipped out of Canada and off to Germany after being in jail for two years, in Canada. This topic belonged in the Canadian forum. But besides all that, do you think that someone should be thrown in jail for questioning an historical event like the Holocaust? Can you respond to that question for me, please.


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## Baruch Menachem

I gather Canada dosn't want to be associated with him, so Cali Girl's question is reasonable. 

He seems a real sicko no matter how you slice it.

The OP's point is kind of useful, as he was in jail for five years for a  sick opinion.     Putting folks in jail for opinions is not the way a democracy should do things.   At least, not the platonic ideal of democracy.     I am kind of conflicted on this.  He seems a sick creep of the type that normal decent folks shouldn't have to deal with.  But tossing folks in jail for opinions is a bit more scary than he is.

Anyway, it is nice to see the INS actually deport some illegal.


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## feduptaxpayer

Jos said:


> Here is further information
> Ernst Zündel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Home page




So what is your point with the Wikipedia bit?  So are you in agreement or not as to whether someone should be put in some jail somewhere just because they questioned or denied some historical event? That is the question being asked here. Five years in prison seems a little ridiculous and a crime. No one should even spend five minutes in some jail for questioning something. And I doubt very much that Zundel was ever a security risk in Canada. I have to wonder as to how Zundel was a security risk to Canada in the first place that would warrant his being jailed and denied his human rights, for two years? I guess Zundel upset some powerful special interest group and they had him incarcerated. They must have been really scared of him and what he was questioning. I guess that is why his life was threatened twice by firebombing his home and physical assaults were done on him. I guess Zundel touched on a taboo or sacred cow subject that no one is allowed to question. Why does the Holocaust create violence towards others whom question it?     

Over to you for your response, Jos.


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## Jos

feduptaxpayer said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is further information
> Ernst Zündel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Home page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your point with the Wikipedia bit?  So are you in agreement or not as to whether someone should be put in some jail somewhere just because they questioned or denied some historical event? That is the question being asked here. Five years in prison seems a little ridiculous and a crime. No one should even spend five minutes in some jail for questioning something. And I doubt very much that Zundel was ever a security risk in Canada. I have to wonder as to how Zundel was a security risk to Canada in the first place that would warrant his being jailed and denied his human rights, for two years? I guess Zundel upset some powerful special interest group and they had him incarcerated. They must have been really scared of him and what he was questioning. I guess that is why his life was threatened twice by firebombing his home and physical assaults were done on him. I guess Zundel touched on a taboo or sacred cow subject that no one is allowed to question. Why does the Holocaust create violence towards others whom question it?
> 
> Over to you for your response, Jos.
Click to expand...


If this Man was allowed to spread his message, Then more people would lose thier inhabition to Question the details of the Historical ¨event¨, and that scares the crap out of the people who have the ¨concession¨They will invent new laws or have someone sent to a country where free speech is not so free

The wiki link is so people can read and form thier own opinion


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## eots

feduptaxpayer said:


> Well the day is here and Ernst Zundel is a free man. For those who don't know the story, Zundel was thrown in a German gulag for daring to question a so-called historical event ie: the Holocaust. He was thrown in the gulag for five long years because he dared to question an event that took place over 65 years ago. Whether the Holocaust happenned as they say it did or it didn't, no one should be put in prison for questioning any historical event. What was done to him was truly a crime against humanity. There are several European countries that will also throw one in the gulag for daring to question the Hollywood version, as they call it, of the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> They say race does not exist, but at other times, diversity is our greatest strength. What a play on words, uhm?



so the fascist actually won the war after all...thats just sick..anyone can have any kind of completely outrageous theory of any other historical event in the history of man ..but not the holcaust...thats just wrong..bordering on evil


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## germanguy

Nice to see a reasonable argument, with well-weighted words, civilized speech and good manners.

Anyway:
To question an historical event in itself is not a crime and definitely not a crime in Germany.

What Ernst Zundel did was far worse from that. 
If you question that the Americans have not been on the moon, you might be a lunatic or just someone who has some strange ideas.
Questioning the Holocaust is a far more serious thing.
We are talking about one of the central and most important events of modern history.
It has so many implications and it changed the modern history in such a way, that denying it means to deny a lot of events and changes afterwards.
So, it means, that when you are denying the Holocaust, you definitely have an agenda.

Also, to tell a victim of Auschwitz afterwards, that he actually is a liar means that you are willing to scale down what happened to him.
So, as Germany is the country of which the Holocaust came, the majority of the Germans decided, that this part of their history will not be falsified, misjudged or scaled down. 
It is what is is.

Just to give you an idea:
How the holocaust is seen by a person is a good lackmus test.
Or to put it vice versa:

The holocaust deniers are neither leftist or liberals.

regards
ze germanguy


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## publicprotector

Questioning a point of history is not sick nor will it ever be. All matters of historical value are discussed every day of the week be it a recent event  or from milenia ago. What is sick is a group of people wishing to imprison others whom wish to debate an historical event.

It begs the question why would such a group or individual not want a particular event to be debated. Could it be that when such events are debated they are found to be false in light of new evidence, theories or idea's.

Such as buffoon Bush stating it would be unpatritotic to debate what really happened on 9/11.
History has taught us that those who hide their actions or crimes do not usually want them to be aired in the public domain for the obvious reasons.


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## publicprotector

Germanguy, correct me if I am wrong but I do not recolect the German populace having a vote on who, what or how many persons were killed during the war years. And Zudels book questioned how many died not it never happened. Many holocausts have taken place over the centuries all but one are discussed and all but one you can end up in prison for.

One must question why anyone would want to imprison anyone for not believing in something or wanting to discuss the subject. Thats what we did in the middle ages to none believers. If the Holocaust is what it is claimed to be then it should be able to stand up to any amount of examination or scrutiny. Every other atrocity in mans history and there are many are frequently and openly debated.

This is not a German matter but a global one as this historical event affects the whole world  unlike any other event. If we decide to imprison those who would challenge such events then we by virtue imprison ourselves to any form of truth lest the real culprits of a crime are exposed.

Locking people up does not stop people thinking what they do, you cannot kill an idea or a thought. It is better to openly debate any such matters to reveal the truth and educate people rather than hide behind threats and punishment.


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## feduptaxpayer

eots said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the day is here and Ernst Zundel is a free man. For those who don't know the story, Zundel was thrown in a German gulag for daring to question a so-called historical event ie: the Holocaust. He was thrown in the gulag for five long years because he dared to question an event that took place over 65 years ago. Whether the Holocaust happenned as they say it did or it didn't, no one should be put in prison for questioning any historical event. What was done to him was truly a crime against humanity. There are several European countries that will also throw one in the gulag for daring to question the Hollywood version, as they call it, of the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> They say race does not exist, but at other times, diversity is our greatest strength. What a play on words, uhm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so the fascist actually won the war after all...thats just sick..anyone can have any kind of completely outrageous theory of any other historical event in the history of man ..but not the holcaust...thats just wrong..bordering on evil
Click to expand...



The whole point of this topic is to point out that no historical event being questioned by anyone, even you, should result in someone being put in jail. Five years in a prison for questioning an historical event shows that this is what is "wrong" and "borders on evil". The holocaust is the only historical event that can get you thrown in the gulag and must never be challenged. The Hollywood version of the holocaust is what is always being questioned and it would appear for good reason. The figures don't match up. Don't have to believe me, go google it and find things out for yourself, while we still have the freedom to use the internet for information services.


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## feduptaxpayer

germanguy said:


> Nice to see a reasonable argument, with well-weighted words, civilized speech and good manners.
> 
> Anyway:
> To question an historical event in itself is not a crime and definitely not a crime in Germany.
> 
> What Ernst Zundel did was far worse from that.
> If you question that the Americans have not been on the moon, you might be a lunatic or just someone who has some strange ideas.
> Questioning the Holocaust is a far more serious thing.
> We are talking about one of the central and most important events of modern history.
> It has so many implications and it changed the modern history in such a way, that denying it means to deny a lot of events and changes afterwards.
> So, it means, that when you are denying the Holocaust, you definitely have an agenda.
> 
> Also, to tell a victim of Auschwitz afterwards, that he actually is a liar means that you are willing to scale down what happened to him.
> So, as Germany is the country of which the Holocaust came, the majority of the Germans decided, that this part of their history will not be falsified, misjudged or scaled down.
> It is what is is.
> 
> Just to give you an idea:
> How the holocaust is seen by a person is a good lackmus test.
> Or to put it vice versa:
> 
> The holocaust deniers are neither leftist or liberals.
> 
> regards
> ze germanguy




So just what did Zundel do that "was far worse"? And why are people like Zundel being put in jail for questioning any historical event, even if it is the holocaust, because that is what this topic was all about. He violated a German law and was thrown in the gulag for five years for daring to deny something. Anyone should be able to deny anything they want to without a threat from big government putting them in jail. That is a crime against humanity and we blame the nazis for doing the samething? We didn't learn anything from history. We just keep repeating it. It is well known that many people have said they were holocaust victims of the Germans but during an investigation they were found out to have fabricated their stories. So just who is telling the truth? That is where I think that Zundel is coming from, he wants to know and learn the truth. Nothing wrong with that is there? 

Regards.


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## feduptaxpayer

publicprotector said:


> Germanguy, correct me if I am wrong but I do not recolect the German populace having a vote on who, what or how many persons were killed during the war years. And Zudels book questioned how many died not it never happened. Many holocausts have taken place over the centuries all but one are discussed and all but one you can end up in prison for.
> 
> One must question why anyone would want to imprison anyone for not believing in something or wanting to discuss the subject. Thats what we did in the middle ages to none believers. If the Holocaust is what it is claimed to be then it should be able to stand up to any amount of examination or scrutiny. Every other atrocity in mans history and there are many are frequently and openly debated.
> 
> This is not a German matter but a global one as this historical event affects the whole world  unlike any other event. If we decide to imprison those who would challenge such events then we by virtue imprison ourselves to any form of truth lest the real culprits of a crime are exposed.
> 
> Locking people up does not stop people thinking what they do, you cannot kill an idea or a thought. It is better to openly debate any such matters to reveal the truth and educate people rather than hide behind threats and punishment.




Well said, and I couldn't have said or explained what you said any better. Yes, there is only one historical event that must never be debated or questioned for fear of persecution and possible jail time. Zundel is one of many thousands today who are questioning the Hollywood version of the holocaust and why not. If there is some doubt about what is being told then let's have a look at that doubt out in the open and correct any errors if neccasary. But don't go throwing people in some gulag for daring to question something. Does this make us look any better than the nazis who basically were doing the samething? Jailing people for their right to question or deny is totally wrong,a crime against humanity.


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## germanguy

Funny how stringent people get, when they are not allowed to spread hatred...

Anyway.

The aforesaid feduptaxpayers etc. (well who is not a f. ?) seem to have a very narrow and limited knowledge of the german law.

It is far from true, that simply by denying the holocaust the german state will put you in a gulag (btw, check some links about germany´s prisons, i.e. Strafvollzug ? Wikipedia but you need german to understand it).
The respective law is § 189 and §194 of the Federal Penal Code and states, that the "denigration of the memory of deceased" is prohibited. If the denigration is done via mass media, while in public or in print and is directed against a part of the german populatiion, which was victim of the national socialist regime, the penalty can be up to 5 years of prison.
So, actually not the questioning of historical facts is prohibited, but the denigration of humans.
As the German Constitutional Court has already decided in the 1970s, that stating an opinion is not covered by the freedom of speech, if the opinion is violating the personality of a single person or a group.
Or, to put it otherwise:
I can say, that I do not agree with you or I can call you an asshole. The latter might be true or not, but -according to german law - is not covered by our constitution.
As Jews have been a persecuted group during the NS time, any denigration of this group as victim is persecuted.
A sentence like: " Jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from germans" wil get you a fine of perhaps 6000,00 EUR.
If you write a book about this subject, the fine will be much higher etc.

So, not the opinion in itself is persecuted in Germany, but the use of an opinion to denigrate victims of the NS regime.

I personally consider myself to be rather liberal and I try to respect any opinion.
I can understand a certain uneasyness about persecuting opinions in general, but in specific cases it can be necessary.

When the Federal Republic was founded in 1949, the Fathers and Mothers of the Basic Law have laid down certain priinciples of which one is the "defending democracy". The enemies of the Republic in the 1920s and 30s used democratic rights to abolish freedom and the republic, therefore this Republic is more on the watch. 

Again, the most so-called revisionists are in no way beacons of freedom and liberty.

regards
ze germanguy


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## feduptaxpayer

germanguy said:


> Funny how stringent people get, when they are not allowed to spread hatred...
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> The aforesaid feduptaxpayers etc. (well who is not a f. ?) seem to have a very narrow and limited knowledge of the german law.
> 
> It is far from true, that simply by denying the holocaust the german state will put you in a gulag (btw, check some links about germany´s prisons, i.e. Strafvollzug ? Wikipedia but you need german to understand it).
> The respective law is § 189 and §194 of the Federal Penal Code and states, that the "denigration of the memory of deceased" is prohibited. If the denigration is done via mass media, while in public or in print and is directed against a part of the german populatiion, which was victim of the national socialist regime, the penalty can be up to 5 years of prison.
> So, actually not the questioning of historical facts is prohibited, but the denigration of humans.
> As the German Constitutional Court has already decided in the 1970s, that stating an opinion is not covered by the freedom of speech, if the opinion is violating the personality of a single person or a group.
> Or, to put it otherwise:
> I can say, that I do not agree with you or I can call you an asshole. The latter might be true or not, but -according to german law - is not covered by our constitution.
> As Jews have been a persecuted group during the NS time, any denigration of this group as victim is persecuted.
> A sentence like: " Jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from germans" wil get you a fine of perhaps 6000,00 EUR.
> If you write a book about this subject, the fine will be much higher etc.
> 
> So, not the opinion in itself is persecuted in Germany, but the use of an opinion to denigrate victims of the NS regime.
> 
> I personally consider myself to be rather liberal and I try to respect any opinion.
> I can understand a certain uneasyness about persecuting opinions in general, but in specific cases it can be necessary.
> 
> When the Federal Republic was founded in 1949, the Fathers and Mothers of the Basic Law have laid down certain priinciples of which one is the "defending democracy". The enemies of the Republic in the 1920s and 30s used democratic rights to abolish freedom and the republic, therefore this Republic is more on the watch.
> 
> Again, the most so-called revisionists are in no way beacons of freedom and liberty.
> 
> regards
> ze germanguy




Whatever. But you cannot believe that denigrating or violating some deceased person or group justifies someone to be put in some gulag for 5 years? Be resonable will you? Five years seems a bit unresonable and a bit too much to waste and ruin someone's life. 

So, what you are saying here is that if I want to prove that someone lied, years later after they have been deceased, I guess that I cannot for fear of being persecuted by the state for trying to denigrate whomever. So, the lie goes on without challenge then? Doesn't sound like a good law to me. Sounds more like the law is there to allow coverup of a lie or a crime that may have been committed in the past by a person or group, that might not want it revealed. As you mentioned, "jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from Germans". This could be one of the main reasons why this law was created? Who knows, eh?


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## L.K.Eder

feduptaxpayer said:


> germanguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how stringent people get, when they are not allowed to spread hatred...
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> The aforesaid feduptaxpayers etc. (well who is not a f. ?) seem to have a very narrow and limited knowledge of the german law.
> 
> It is far from true, that simply by denying the holocaust the german state will put you in a gulag (btw, check some links about germany´s prisons, i.e. Strafvollzug ? Wikipedia but you need german to understand it).
> The respective law is § 189 and §194 of the Federal Penal Code and states, that the "denigration of the memory of deceased" is prohibited. If the denigration is done via mass media, while in public or in print and is directed against a part of the german populatiion, which was victim of the national socialist regime, the penalty can be up to 5 years of prison.
> So, actually not the questioning of historical facts is prohibited, but the denigration of humans.
> As the German Constitutional Court has already decided in the 1970s, that stating an opinion is not covered by the freedom of speech, if the opinion is violating the personality of a single person or a group.
> Or, to put it otherwise:
> I can say, that I do not agree with you or I can call you an asshole. The latter might be true or not, but -according to german law - is not covered by our constitution.
> As Jews have been a persecuted group during the NS time, any denigration of this group as victim is persecuted.
> A sentence like: " Jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from germans" wil get you a fine of perhaps 6000,00 EUR.
> If you write a book about this subject, the fine will be much higher etc.
> 
> So, not the opinion in itself is persecuted in Germany, but the use of an opinion to denigrate victims of the NS regime.
> 
> I personally consider myself to be rather liberal and I try to respect any opinion.
> I can understand a certain uneasyness about persecuting opinions in general, but in specific cases it can be necessary.
> 
> When the Federal Republic was founded in 1949, the Fathers and Mothers of the Basic Law have laid down certain priinciples of which one is the "defending democracy". The enemies of the Republic in the 1920s and 30s used democratic rights to abolish freedom and the republic, therefore this Republic is more on the watch.
> 
> Again, the most so-called revisionists are in no way beacons of freedom and liberty.
> 
> regards
> ze germanguy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever. But you cannot believe that denigrating or violating some deceased person or group justifies someone to be put in some gulag for 5 years? Be resonable will you? Five years seems a bit unresonable and a bit too much to waste and ruin someone's life.
> 
> So, what you are saying here is that if I want to prove that someone lied, years later after they have been deceased, I guess that I cannot for fear of being persecuted by the state for trying to denigrate whomever. So, the lie goes on without challenge then? Doesn't sound like a good law to me. Sounds more like the law is there to allow coverup of a lie or a crime that may have been committed in the past by a person or group, that might not want it revealed. As you mentioned, "jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from Germans". This could be one of the main reasons why this law was created? Who knows, eh?
Click to expand...


i am fed up with feduptaxpayer.


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## eots

feduptaxpayer said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the day is here and Ernst Zundel is a free man. For those who don't know the story, Zundel was thrown in a German gulag for daring to question a so-called historical event ie: the Holocaust. He was thrown in the gulag for five long years because he dared to question an event that took place over 65 years ago. Whether the Holocaust happenned as they say it did or it didn't, no one should be put in prison for questioning any historical event. What was done to him was truly a crime against humanity. There are several European countries that will also throw one in the gulag for daring to question the Hollywood version, as they call it, of the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> They say race does not exist, but at other times, diversity is our greatest strength. What an play on words, uhm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so the fascist actually won the war after all...thats just sick..anyone can have any kind of completely outrageous theory of any other historical event in the history of man ..but not the holcaust...thats just wrong..bordering on evil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The whole point of this topic is to point out that no historical event being questioned by anyone, even you, should result in someone being put in jail. Five years in a prison for questioning an historical event shows that this is what is "wrong" and "borders on evil". The holocaust is the only historical event that can get you thrown in the gulag and must never be challenged. The Hollywood version of the holocaust is what is always being questioned and it would appear for good reason. The figures don't match up. Don't have to believe me, go google it and find things out for yourself, while we still have the freedom to use the internet for information services.
Click to expand...


I think you misunderstand my position...I was saying how I feel about this man being jailed for a opinion


----------



## eots

germanguy said:


> Funny how stringent people get, when they are not allowed to spread hatred...
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> The aforesaid feduptaxpayers etc. (well who is not a f. ?) seem to have a very narrow and limited knowledge of the german law.
> 
> It is far from true, that simply by denying the holocaust the german state will put you in a gulag (btw, check some links about germany´s prisons, i.e. Strafvollzug ? Wikipedia but you need german to understand it).
> The respective law is § 189 and §194 of the Federal Penal Code and states, that the "denigration of the memory of deceased" is prohibited. If the denigration is done via mass media, while in public or in print and is directed against a part of the german populatiion, which was victim of the national socialist regime, the penalty can be up to 5 years of prison.
> So, actually not the questioning of historical facts is prohibited, but the denigration of humans.
> As the German Constitutional Court has already decided in the 1970s, that stating an opinion is not covered by the freedom of speech, if the opinion is violating the personality of a single person or a group.
> Or, to put it otherwise:
> I can say, that I do not agree with you or I can call you an asshole. The latter might be true or not, but -according to german law - is not covered by our constitution.
> As Jews have been a persecuted group during the NS time, any denigration of this group as victim is persecuted.
> A sentence like: " Jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from germans" wil get you a fine of perhaps 6000,00 EUR.
> If you write a book about this subject, the fine will be much higher etc.
> 
> So, not the opinion in itself is persecuted in Germany, but the use of an opinion to denigrate victims of the NS regime.
> 
> I personally consider myself to be rather liberal and I try to respect any opinion.
> I can understand a certain uneasyness about persecuting opinions in general, but in specific cases it can be necessary.
> 
> When the Federal Republic was founded in 1949, the Fathers and Mothers of the Basic Law have laid down certain priinciples of which one is the "defending democracy". The enemies of the Republic in the 1920s and 30s used democratic rights to abolish freedom and the republic, therefore this Republic is more on the watch.
> 
> Again, the most so-called revisionists are in no way beacons of freedom and liberty.
> 
> regards
> ze germanguy



What a steaming pile of horseshit


----------



## eots

what if you deny world war 2 ever happened is that illegal ?..what if you believe the whole world is a holographic projection and nothing including the Holocaust ever happend...what if I say the we are butterfly's dreaming we are men.??? and therefore the Holocaust never happened ??


----------



## eots

could the Matrix be a subtle form of Holocaust denial ?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vVi8bZNl10[/ame]


----------



## feduptaxpayer

L.K.Eder said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> germanguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how stringent people get, when they are not allowed to spread hatred...
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> The aforesaid feduptaxpayers etc. (well who is not a f. ?) seem to have a very narrow and limited knowledge of the german law.
> 
> It is far from true, that simply by denying the holocaust the german state will put you in a gulag (btw, check some links about germany´s prisons, i.e. Strafvollzug ? Wikipedia but you need german to understand it).
> The respective law is § 189 and §194 of the Federal Penal Code and states, that the "denigration of the memory of deceased" is prohibited. If the denigration is done via mass media, while in public or in print and is directed against a part of the german populatiion, which was victim of the national socialist regime, the penalty can be up to 5 years of prison.
> So, actually not the questioning of historical facts is prohibited, but the denigration of humans.
> As the German Constitutional Court has already decided in the 1970s, that stating an opinion is not covered by the freedom of speech, if the opinion is violating the personality of a single person or a group.
> Or, to put it otherwise:
> I can say, that I do not agree with you or I can call you an asshole. The latter might be true or not, but -according to german law - is not covered by our constitution.
> As Jews have been a persecuted group during the NS time, any denigration of this group as victim is persecuted.
> A sentence like: " Jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from germans" wil get you a fine of perhaps 6000,00 EUR.
> If you write a book about this subject, the fine will be much higher etc.
> 
> So, not the opinion in itself is persecuted in Germany, but the use of an opinion to denigrate victims of the NS regime.
> 
> I personally consider myself to be rather liberal and I try to respect any opinion.
> I can understand a certain uneasyness about persecuting opinions in general, but in specific cases it can be necessary.
> 
> When the Federal Republic was founded in 1949, the Fathers and Mothers of the Basic Law have laid down certain priinciples of which one is the "defending democracy". The enemies of the Republic in the 1920s and 30s used democratic rights to abolish freedom and the republic, therefore this Republic is more on the watch.
> 
> Again, the most so-called revisionists are in no way beacons of freedom and liberty.
> 
> regards
> ze germanguy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever. But you cannot believe that denigrating or violating some deceased person or group justifies someone to be put in some gulag for 5 years? Be resonable will you? Five years seems a bit unresonable and a bit too much to waste and ruin someone's life.
> 
> So, what you are saying here is that if I want to prove that someone lied, years later after they have been deceased, I guess that I cannot for fear of being persecuted by the state for trying to denigrate whomever. So, the lie goes on without challenge then? Doesn't sound like a good law to me. Sounds more like the law is there to allow coverup of a lie or a crime that may have been committed in the past by a person or group, that might not want it revealed. As you mentioned, "jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from Germans". This could be one of the main reasons why this law was created? Who knows, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am fed up with feduptaxpayer.
Click to expand...



Why? At least have the kahonnes to say why? Saying your fedup doesn't say much about you. But then again maybe there is nothing much about you, uhm?  


"When people fear government, it is tryanny, when government fears people, it is democracy".


----------



## feduptaxpayer

eots said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> so the fascist actually won the war after all...thats just sick..anyone can have any kind of completely outrageous theory of any other historical event in the history of man ..but not the holcaust...thats just wrong..bordering on evil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole point of this topic is to point out that no historical event being questioned by anyone, even you, should result in someone being put in jail. Five years in a prison for questioning an historical event shows that this is what is "wrong" and "borders on evil". The holocaust is the only historical event that can get you thrown in the gulag and must never be challenged. The Hollywood version of the holocaust is what is always being questioned and it would appear for good reason. The figures don't match up. Don't have to believe me, go google it and find things out for yourself, while we still have the freedom to use the internet for information services.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you misunderstand my position...I was saying how I feel about this man being jailed for a opinion
Click to expand...


I stand corrected.


----------



## L.K.Eder

feduptaxpayer said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever. But you cannot believe that denigrating or violating some deceased person or group justifies someone to be put in some gulag for 5 years? Be resonable will you? Five years seems a bit unresonable and a bit too much to waste and ruin someone's life.
> 
> So, what you are saying here is that if I want to prove that someone lied, years later after they have been deceased, I guess that I cannot for fear of being persecuted by the state for trying to denigrate whomever. So, the lie goes on without challenge then? Doesn't sound like a good law to me. Sounds more like the law is there to allow coverup of a lie or a crime that may have been committed in the past by a person or group, that might not want it revealed. As you mentioned, "jews only claim to be victims to press high compensations from Germans". This could be one of the main reasons why this law was created? Who knows, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i am fed up with feduptaxpayer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why? At least have the kahonnes to say why? Saying your fedup doesn't say much about you. But then again maybe there is nothing much about you, uhm?
> 
> 
> "When people fear government, it is tryanny, when government fears people, it is democracy".
Click to expand...


i am fed up with your atrocious spelling, your continuing misuse of the term gulag, your smarmy way of making a martyr out of a propaganda con-artist and your insinuations about german law and german history. fuck off.


----------



## germanguy

It is an interesting fact, that all neo-nazis, holocaust deniers, nazis and other enemies of mankind start to get brave democrats, when someone faces them with severe consequences for spilling hatred and undermining the fundaments of our republic.

We may have an uneasy past, but we Germans have learned the lesson, that you should not give the Nazis again a possibility to ruin this country.

So you do not like our laws, suit yourself, simply do not break them here.
If you want to fight it out, you can go from the lower courts to the German Constitutional Court or the European Court and so on. Do it if you want, but I would bet a rather high amount that you will lose.

And this was that.

no regards 
ze germanguy


----------



## feduptaxpayer

L.K.Eder said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am fed up with feduptaxpayer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? At least have the kahonnes to say why? Saying your fedup doesn't say much about you. But then again maybe there is nothing much about you, uhm?
> 
> 
> "When people fear government, it is tryanny, when government fears people, it is democracy".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am fed up with your atrocious spelling, your continuing misuse of the term gulag, your smarmy way of making a martyr out of a propaganda con-artist and your insinuations about german law and german history. fuck off.
Click to expand...



What? Have you never made any spelling errors in your life? Get real will you and get over yourself because you are not so perfect. Besides that, I think that your use of the words "fuck off" is atrocious. What's the matter, can't debate properly so you have to start swearing at people? I am not trying to make a martyr out of anybody. I standup for people who have been denied their right to speak freely and be allowed to have an opinion without having to fear being thrown into some communist "gulag" like what happened to Zundel in Germany. Did you ever think that the people you maybe listening to are nothing more than "propaganda con artists? Think about it. Do some research and you might learn something, if that is possible for you to do. I have news for you buddy boy, there are two sides to every story. It's obvious you only listen to oneside of any story. Sad for you fella.


----------



## Dr Grump

I don't think he should have been jailed. He should be branded a fucking idiot though for sure..


----------



## feduptaxpayer

Dr Grump said:


> I don't think he should have been jailed. He should be branded a fucking idiot though for sure..



That is right, he should not have been jailed. And if someone doesn't like what someone else has to say then they have the option to ignore him/her. Although if you did some research on Zundel you would find that he is no f'n idiot. And if you have never taken the time to do a little research then maybe someone could brand you an f'n idiot for not knowing what you are talking about. It's funny how when people don't like what others have to say they are immediately labeled some ignorant rude name. It just shows the lack of intelligence on their part. But hey, the world is full of f'n idiots like that. What the hell.


----------



## feduptaxpayer

germanguy said:


> It is an interesting fact, that all neo-nazis, holocaust deniers, nazis and other enemies of mankind start to get brave democrats, when someone faces them with severe consequences for spilling hatred and undermining the fundaments of our republic.
> 
> We may have an uneasy past, but we Germans have learned the lesson, that you should not give the Nazis again a possibility to ruin this country.
> 
> So you do not like our laws, suit yourself, simply do not break them here.
> If you want to fight it out, you can go from the lower courts to the German Constitutional Court or the European Court and so on. Do it if you want, but I would bet a rather high amount that you will lose.
> 
> And this was that.
> 
> no regards
> 
> 
> I don't think that it was the nazis that ruined your country so much as the communists did, well at least half of it. And the communists were far more brutal and murdered far more people then the nazis ever did. It's interesting how Hollywood and the media always make movies or TV programs about the evils of nazis and nazism but when it comes to the evils of communism they seem to be very quiet. Why is that? Zundel and many others know why and that is why he spent five years in the gulag for. You need to read a little more.
> 
> Btw, you are right I would not bet anything either because I know what the outcome would be. I don't think that Germans understand the true meaning of "freedom of speech".
> 
> And this was that.
> 
> Ditto(no regards)


----------



## L.K.Eder

feduptaxpayer said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? At least have the kahonnes to say why? Saying your fedup doesn't say much about you. But then again maybe there is nothing much about you, uhm?
> 
> 
> "When people fear government, it is tryanny, when government fears people, it is democracy".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i am fed up with your atrocious spelling, your continuing misuse of the term gulag, your smarmy way of making a martyr out of a propaganda con-artist and your insinuations about german law and german history. fuck off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What? Have you never made any spelling errors in your life? Get real will you and get over yourself because you are not so perfect. Besides that, I think that your use of the words "fuck off" is atrocious. What's the matter, can't debate properly so you have to start swearing at people? I am not trying to make a martyr out of anybody. I standup for people who have been denied their right to speak freely and be allowed to have an opinion without having to fear being thrown into some communist "gulag" like what happened to Zundel in Germany. Did you ever think that the people you maybe listening to are nothing more than "propaganda con artists? Think about it. Do some research and you might learn something, if that is possible for you to do. I have news for you buddy boy, there are two sides to every story. It's obvious you only listen to oneside of any story. Sad for you fella.
Click to expand...


here is a pro-tip: fuck off when told to fuck off!


----------



## eots

germanguy said:


> It is an interesting fact, that all neo-nazis, holocaust deniers, nazis and other enemies of mankind start to get brave democrats, when someone faces them with severe consequences for spilling hatred and undermining the fundaments of our republic.
> 
> We may have an uneasy past, but we Germans have learned the lesson, that you should not give the *Nazis again a possibility to ruin this country.*
> 
> So you do not like our laws, suit yourself, simply do not break them here.
> If you want to fight it out, you can go from the lower courts to the German Constitutional Court or the European Court and so on. Do it if you want, but I would bet a rather high amount that you will lose.
> 
> And this was that.
> 
> no regards
> ze germanguy



If you can be jailed for questioning a historical event the NAZIS did ruin the country,Why should there be this one sacred cow in all the history of mankind ?


----------



## germanguy

Dear Taxpayer, he who is fed up, what is your question ?

Why the Holocaust is a sacred cow ? Is it one ? 
I only know of people like Zündel and victims of the Holocaust, for both this subject is of continuous interest.
Zündel stirred up this strange debate, no one else. 
So, without the Holocaust, Zündel would have to fall back on his second subject: UFOs. 

And again: 
Questioning a historical event is not a crime, not in Germany.
It needs people like Zündel who question it in a way his lawyers did:
By citing Hitlers "Mein Kampf" in courtroom and passages of the 1935 Nazi racial laws.
Not the kind of defense I would like to have in a court, but that is only my opinion.

Why does Zündel not concentrate on subjects like the building of the pyramids, 9/11 or the sinking of the Titanic ? Why the Holocaust ?
I think it is not only the pure interest in historic truth, but to separate the holocaust from the nazi ideology. Nazism without racial hatred is obviously an interesting political ideology to people like Zündel. With all the killing it looks a bit too harsh, but without....

So, to me he may be a stupid arse, but this is only my opinion.
But what he is spilling around is not to be tolerated and justly prohibited here.
You do not like it, tough luck.
You think it is wrong, well, Germany is shivering...

ze germanguy


----------



## eots

Perhaps Germans are a weaker minded lot that would turn into goose stepping Nazis if some old man ask the wrong questions..


----------



## germanguy

Undear eots,

the Germans are as stupid or clever as any other people on this planet.
But, as Nazism/Fascism was able to form a government here, we and the Italians are perhaps the only people in the Industrialized West having experience how those people try to come to power and have done so.
As it is like this, I do see Zündel not as a poor old man, posing questions and beeing jailed for doing so, but as someone, who is constantly trying to undermine the republic I live in and the things it is standing for.

As he did so, he has to live with the consequences.
But, as you are whining about this injustice, without obviously knowing more about the whole context Zündel is acting and publishing, I can not blame you.

Or you share his thoughts and beliefs and in that case I do not want to continue any debate.

no regards
germanguy


----------



## Jos

> Is asking questions a crime? If you develop doubts about the Holocaust, isnt the only way to get rid of these doubts by asking questions? A lot of individuals and groups are enraged by those who ask critical questions about the Holocaust. These doubters, who call themselves Revisionists, are often defamed as "Holocaust deniers."
> 
> Every other historical issue is debated as a matter of course, but influential pressure groups have made the Holocaust story an exception. Anyone should be encouraged to investigate critically the Holocaust story in the same way they are encouraged to investigate every other historical event. This is not a radical point of view. The culture of critique was developed millennia ago by Greek philosophers like Socrates, and was renewed centuries ago during the Enlightenment.


THE HOLOCAUST CONTROVERSY


----------



## feduptaxpayer

L.K.Eder said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am fed up with your atrocious spelling, your continuing misuse of the term gulag, your smarmy way of making a martyr out of a propaganda con-artist and your insinuations about german law and german history. fuck off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What? Have you never made any spelling errors in your life? Get real will you and get over yourself because you are not so perfect. Besides that, I think that your use of the words "fuck off" is atrocious. What's the matter, can't debate properly so you have to start swearing at people? I am not trying to make a martyr out of anybody. I standup for people who have been denied their right to speak freely and be allowed to have an opinion without having to fear being thrown into some communist "gulag" like what happened to Zundel in Germany. Did you ever think that the people you maybe listening to are nothing more than "propaganda con artists? Think about it. Do some research and you might learn something, if that is possible for you to do. I have news for you buddy boy, there are two sides to every story. It's obvious you only listen to oneside of any story. Sad for you fella.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> here is a pro-tip: fuck off when told to fuck off!
Click to expand...



Wow, such atrocious language. Why should I "f-off" for a f--k head like you? Did someone make you God here? If you don't like what I have to say, well why don't you just f-off and go back to watching The Simpsons or Jerry Springer or some other similiar mindless TV show like that? Those programs would appear to be more for your dumb downed speed. 

Chuckle-chuckle.


----------



## feduptaxpayer

germanguy said:


> Dear Taxpayer, he who is fed up, what is your question ?
> 
> Why the Holocaust is a sacred cow ? Is it one ?
> I only know of people like Zündel and victims of the Holocaust, for both this subject is of continuous interest.
> Zündel stirred up this strange debate, no one else.
> So, without the Holocaust, Zündel would have to fall back on his second subject: UFOs.
> 
> And again:
> Questioning a historical event is not a crime, not in Germany.
> It needs people like Zündel who question it in a way his lawyers did:
> By citing Hitlers "Mein Kampf" in courtroom and passages of the 1935 Nazi racial laws.
> Not the kind of defense I would like to have in a court, but that is only my opinion.
> 
> Why does Zündel not concentrate on subjects like the building of the pyramids, 9/11 or the sinking of the Titanic ? Why the Holocaust ?
> I think it is not only the pure interest in historic truth, but to separate the holocaust from the nazi ideology. Nazism without racial hatred is obviously an interesting political ideology to people like Zündel. With all the killing it looks a bit too harsh, but without....
> 
> So, to me he may be a stupid arse, but this is only my opinion.
> But what he is spilling around is not to be tolerated and justly prohibited here.
> You do not like it, tough luck.
> You think it is wrong, well, Germany is shivering...
> 
> ze germanguy




I am beginning to think that you would make a great communist, comrade, that is if you are not one already? Anyone, for any reason believes that a man/woman should be put in jail for questioning,denying or denigrating someone deceased,must be a zionist puppet.


----------



## L.K.Eder

feduptaxpayer said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> What? Have you never made any spelling errors in your life? Get real will you and get over yourself because you are not so perfect. Besides that, I think that your use of the words "fuck off" is atrocious. What's the matter, can't debate properly so you have to start swearing at people? I am not trying to make a martyr out of anybody. I standup for people who have been denied their right to speak freely and be allowed to have an opinion without having to fear being thrown into some communist "gulag" like what happened to Zundel in Germany. Did you ever think that the people you maybe listening to are nothing more than "propaganda con artists? Think about it. Do some research and you might learn something, if that is possible for you to do. I have news for you buddy boy, there are two sides to every story. It's obvious you only listen to oneside of any story. Sad for you fella.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here is a pro-tip: fuck off when told to fuck off!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, such atrocious language. Why should I "f-off" for a f--k head like you? Did someone make you God here? If you don't like what I have to say, well why don't you just f-off and go back to watching The Simpsons or Jerry Springer or some other similiar mindless TV show like that? Those programs would appear to be more for your dumb downed speed.
> 
> Chuckle-chuckle.
Click to expand...



you seem to like the new word. btw you can write fuck if you want on this board. you will not end up in a gulag like your hero zündel. i don't like what you have to say, i read this shit so many times it is always the same. 

weak-headed neonazi anti-semite anti-communist propoganda whining. 

it is despicable morons like you that make me support these special laws in my country, you can spew your hateful shit thinly disguised as historic revisionism or even more laughably, "just asking questions" in many places and on the internet. do it here in germany, and in public and repeatedly, and you will pay a fine. show the hitlergruß in court, e.g., like zündel's genius lawyer, you pay a fine. say jews were not gassed in auschwitz, pay a fine. if you zündel (play with fire) enough like this, go to jail. boohoo. then write a book about it, get rich, repeat. fick dich nazi!


----------



## eots

The real Nazis are the German thought police..it is your _take it up the ass_.._do What the government tells you square head thinking _that put you in this mess in the first place


----------



## L.K.Eder

eots said:


> The real Nazis are the German thought police..it is your _take it up the ass_.._do What the government tells you square head thinking _that put you in this mess in the first place




thanks for your input. you are a great american.


----------



## eots

L.K.Eder said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real Nazis are the German thought police..it is your _take it up the ass_.._do What the government tells you square head thinking _that put you in this mess in the first place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for your input. you are a great american.
Click to expand...


Yes there are many of us, a good number of them Jewish ..who have  somehow thrived and prospered in this great nation.. despite of their freedom to question..


----------



## L.K.Eder

eots said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real Nazis are the German thought police..it is your _take it up the ass_.._do What the government tells you square head thinking _that put you in this mess in the first place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for your input. you are a great american.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there are many of us, a good number of them Jewish ..who have  somehow thrived and prospered in this great nation.. despite of their freedom to question..
Click to expand...


i hate you for your freedumbs. i am sitting here in chains.


----------



## eots

L.K.Eder said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for your input. you are a great american.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there are many of us, a good number of them Jewish ..who have  somehow thrived and prospered in this great nation.. despite of their freedom to question..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i hate you for your freedumbs. i am sitting here in chains.
Click to expand...


I am sure you feel comfortable in your surroundings

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBKz1wdK0M]YouTube - Boiling Frog Syndrome - Have You Become a Boiled Frog?[/ame]


----------



## L.K.Eder

eots said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there are many of us, a good number of them Jewish ..who have  somehow thrived and prospered in this great nation.. despite of their freedom to question..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i hate you for your freedumbs. i am sitting here in chains.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am sure you feel comfortable in your surroundings
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBKz1wdK0M]YouTube - Boiling Frog Syndrome - Have You Become a Boiled Frog?[/ame]
Click to expand...


of course, i eat frogs for dinner.

now on a serious note, i can see the gradual changes here in germany, nationalism seeps back in, accompanied with the whining that the inconvenient wwii chapter should now finally be closed. it was such a loooooong time ago, we want to be real germans again. hello poland, hello france. hehe. hey, did you know not everything hitler did was bad? and some of those jews had it really coming. being responsible for the loss in wwi, for one.

ah, conspiracy theories, denial and utter moronity make this strange world seem explainable, bearable and enjoyable. coping mechanisms, understandable, but not correct.

who's the frog?


----------



## eots

L.K.Eder said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> i hate you for your freedumbs. i am sitting here in chains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure you feel comfortable in your surroundings
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBKz1wdK0M]YouTube - Boiling Frog Syndrome - Have You Become a Boiled Frog?[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> of course, i eat frogs for dinner.
> 
> now on a serious note, i can see the gradual changes here in germany, nationalism seeps back in, accompanied with the whining that the inconvenient wwii chapter should now finally be closed. it was such a loooooong time ago, we want to be real germans again. hello poland, hello france. hehe. hey, did you know not everything hitler did was bad? and some of those jews had it really coming. being responsible for the loss in wwi, for one.
> 
> ah, conspiracy theories, denial and utter moronity make this strange world seem explainable, bearable and enjoyable. coping mechanisms, understandable, but not correct.
> 
> who's the frog?
Click to expand...


I'm telling !! _you said everything Hitler did was not that bad.._your going to get it now ..your not allowed to say that !!..weak fragile eggshell minded Germans will be goose stepping down the street in mass by morning if this got out


----------



## L.K.Eder

eots said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure you feel comfortable in your surroundings
> 
> YouTube - Boiling Frog Syndrome - Have You Become a Boiled Frog?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of course, i eat frogs for dinner.
> 
> now on a serious note, i can see the gradual changes here in germany, nationalism seeps back in, accompanied with the whining that the inconvenient wwii chapter should now finally be closed. it was such a loooooong time ago, we want to be real germans again. hello poland, hello france. hehe. hey, did you know not everything hitler did was bad? and some of those jews had it really coming. being responsible for the loss in wwi, for one.
> 
> ah, conspiracy theories, denial and utter moronity make this strange world seem explainable, bearable and enjoyable. coping mechanisms, understandable, but not correct.
> 
> who's the frog?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm telling !! _you said everything Hitler did was not that bad.._your going to get it now ..your not allowed to say that !!..weak fragile eggshell minded Germans will be goose stepping down the street in mass by morning if this got out
Click to expand...


1. i did not exactly say that
2. i like gulag, especially with paprika


----------



## feduptaxpayer

L.K.Eder said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> of course, i eat frogs for dinner.
> 
> now on a serious note, i can see the gradual changes here in germany, nationalism seeps back in, accompanied with the whining that the inconvenient wwii chapter should now finally be closed. it was such a loooooong time ago, we want to be real germans again. hello poland, hello france. hehe. hey, did you know not everything hitler did was bad? and some of those jews had it really coming. being responsible for the loss in wwi, for one.
> 
> ah, conspiracy theories, denial and utter moronity make this strange world seem explainable, bearable and enjoyable. coping mechanisms, understandable, but not correct.
> 
> who's the frog?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling !! _you said everything Hitler did was not that bad.._your going to get it now ..your not allowed to say that !!..weak fragile eggshell minded Germans will be goose stepping down the street in mass by morning if this got out
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. i did not exactly say that
> 2. i like gulag, especially with paprika
Click to expand...



Why don't you admit it comrade, you like and miss communism? Still wishing that East Berlin were still around, uhm? Did you have a big cry when the Berlin wall came tumbling down? Boo-hoo for you.


----------



## feduptaxpayer

L.K.Eder said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> i hate you for your freedumbs. i am sitting here in chains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure you feel comfortable in your surroundings
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBKz1wdK0M]YouTube - Boiling Frog Syndrome - Have You Become a Boiled Frog?[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> of course, i eat frogs for dinner.
> 
> now on a serious note, i can see the gradual changes here in germany, nationalism seeps back in, accompanied with the whining that the inconvenient wwii chapter should now finally be closed. it was such a loooooong time ago, we want to be real germans again. hello poland, hello france. hehe. hey, did you know not everything hitler did was bad? and some of those jews had it really coming. being responsible for the loss in wwi, for one.
> 
> ah, conspiracy theories, denial and utter moronity make this strange world seem explainable, bearable and enjoyable. coping mechanisms, understandable, but not correct.
> 
> who's the frog?
Click to expand...


I am writing to your communist government and tell them that you said that "not everything that Hitler did was bad". Well Zundel appears to have felt and has said all along that all that nasty stuff said about Hitler was zionist propaganda. But then again if you are a zionist you wouldn't agree with zundel, now would you? Germany land of the gulag.


----------



## feduptaxpayer

L.K.Eder said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> here is a pro-tip: fuck off when told to fuck off!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, such atrocious language. Why should I "f-off" for a f--k head like you? Did someone make you God here? If you don't like what I have to say, well why don't you just f-off and go back to watching The Simpsons or Jerry Springer or some other similiar mindless TV show like that? Those programs would appear to be more for your dumb downed speed.
> 
> Chuckle-chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you seem to like the new word. btw you can write fuck if you want on this board. you will not end up in a gulag like your hero zündel. i don't like what you have to say, i read this shit so many times it is always the same.
> 
> weak-headed neonazi anti-semite anti-communist propoganda whining.
> 
> it is despicable morons like you that make me support these special laws in my country, you can spew your hateful shit thinly disguised as historic revisionism or even more laughably, "just asking questions" in many places and on the internet. do it here in germany, and in public and repeatedly, and you will pay a fine. show the hitlergruß in court, e.g., like zündel's genius lawyer, you pay a fine. say jews were not gassed in auschwitz, pay a fine. if you zündel (play with fire) enough like this, go to jail. boohoo. then write a book about it, get rich, repeat. fick dich nazi!
Click to expand...



It's despicable laws that you have in Germany that put the lawyer for Ernst Zundel(Sylvia Stolz)in the gulag for defending Zundel. I wouldn't want to be a lawyer in Germany trying to defend freedom of speech. Talk about despicable morons, like yourself, you support those sillyass hate laws that put people like Zundel in the gulag for daring to deny,question or denigrate someone. Thank God for America, land of the free, home of the brave, and I thank God that I live next door to a country that has a 1st Amendment and believes in the right to freedom of speech unlike the rat hole of a country that you live in.  
Maybe you should go to websites like Institute for Historical Review and learn something for a change, if that is possible for you to crawl out of that bullshit world of yours and educate yourself. 

PS:I don't need to use the word F--k like you do. I can debate without it. Chuckle-chuckle.


----------



## L.K.Eder

feduptaxpayer said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, such atrocious language. Why should I "f-off" for a f--k head like you? Did someone make you God here? If you don't like what I have to say, well why don't you just f-off and go back to watching The Simpsons or Jerry Springer or some other similiar mindless TV show like that? Those programs would appear to be more for your dumb downed speed.
> 
> Chuckle-chuckle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you seem to like the new word. btw you can write fuck if you want on this board. you will not end up in a gulag like your hero zündel. i don't like what you have to say, i read this shit so many times it is always the same.
> 
> weak-headed neonazi anti-semite anti-communist propoganda whining.
> 
> it is despicable morons like you that make me support these special laws in my country, you can spew your hateful shit thinly disguised as historic revisionism or even more laughably, "just asking questions" in many places and on the internet. do it here in germany, and in public and repeatedly, and you will pay a fine. show the hitlergruß in court, e.g., like zündel's genius lawyer, you pay a fine. say jews were not gassed in auschwitz, pay a fine. if you zündel (play with fire) enough like this, go to jail. boohoo. then write a book about it, get rich, repeat. fick dich nazi!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's despicable laws that you have in Germany that put the lawyer for Ernst Zundel(Sylvia Stolz)in the gulag for defending Zundel. I wouldn't want to be a lawyer in Germany trying to defend freedom of speech. Talk about despicable morons, like yourself, you support those sillyass hate laws that put people like Zundel in the gulag for daring to deny,question or denigrate someone. Thank God for America, land of the free, home of the brave, and I thank God that I live next door to a country that has a 1st Amendment and believes in the right to freedom of speech unlike the rat hole of a country that you live in.
> Maybe you should go to websites like Institute for Historical Review and learn something for a change, if that is possible for you to crawl out of that bullshit world of yours and educate yourself.
> 
> PS:I don't need to use the word F--k like you do. I can debate without it. Chuckle-chuckle.
Click to expand...



i think you are a liberal plant trying to accomplish the difficult mission to make neonazis look dumb.


----------



## germanguy

Again, some errors about what the freedom of speech is and what it is not.
Also, the fedupthingy is mixing up things.

Ernst Zündels lawyer was (I hope I remember that correct) banned from the process, because he presented the so called Hitler Gruss (forbidden in Germany as it expresses contempt of the constitution) cited long passages of the Nuremberg Racial Laws and Hitlers book "Mein Kampf". In any anglo-saxon court this is called "Contempt of Court", but here in Germany, you are excluded.

Another of Z. lawyers was a former leftist terrorist (Horst Mahler), now a neo-nazi and currently in prison. 

Those people are outspoken enemies of our country and our constitutional order,
so I do not see, why they should not be treated as such.

germanguy


----------



## feduptaxpayer

L.K.Eder said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> you seem to like the new word. btw you can write fuck if you want on this board. you will not end up in a gulag like your hero zündel. i don't like what you have to say, i read this shit so many times it is always the same.
> 
> weak-headed neonazi anti-semite anti-communist propoganda whining.
> 
> it is despicable morons like you that make me support these special laws in my country, you can spew your hateful shit thinly disguised as historic revisionism or even more laughably, "just asking questions" in many places and on the internet. do it here in germany, and in public and repeatedly, and you will pay a fine. show the hitlergruß in court, e.g., like zündel's genius lawyer, you pay a fine. say jews were not gassed in auschwitz, pay a fine. if you zündel (play with fire) enough like this, go to jail. boohoo. then write a book about it, get rich, repeat. fick dich nazi!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's despicable laws that you have in Germany that put the lawyer for Ernst Zundel(Sylvia Stolz)in the gulag for defending Zundel. I wouldn't want to be a lawyer in Germany trying to defend freedom of speech. Talk about despicable morons, like yourself, you support those sillyass hate laws that put people like Zundel in the gulag for daring to deny,question or denigrate someone. Thank God for America, land of the free, home of the brave, and I thank God that I live next door to a country that has a 1st Amendment and believes in the right to freedom of speech unlike the rat hole of a country that you live in.
> Maybe you should go to websites like Institute for Historical Review and learn something for a change, if that is possible for you to crawl out of that bullshit world of yours and educate yourself.
> 
> PS:I don't need to use the word F--k like you do. I can debate without it. Chuckle-chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i think you are a liberal plant trying to accomplish the difficult mission to make neonazis look dumb.
Click to expand...



Can't fool you? Dam, I got caught again. I am going to have to be less conspicious next time. Now, wait until my boss at Homeland Security finds out I screwed up, again. Shit.


----------



## Sodafin

feduptaxpayer said:


> It's despicable laws that you have in Germany that put the lawyer for Ernst Zundel(Sylvia Stolz)in the gulag for defending Zundel. I wouldn't want to be a lawyer in Germany trying to defend freedom of speech. Talk about despicable morons, like yourself, you support those sillyass hate laws that put people like Zundel in the gulag for daring to deny,question or denigrate someone. Thank God for America, land of the free, home of the brave, and I thank God that I live next door to a country that has a 1st Amendment and believes in the right to freedom of speech unlike the rat hole of a country that you live in.
> Maybe you should go to websites like Institute for Historical Review and learn something for a change, if that is possible for you to crawl out of that bullshit world of yours and educate yourself.
> 
> PS:I don't need to use the word F--k like you do. I can debate without it. Chuckle-chuckle.



I'm calling 'satire' on this one - though it looks like fedup fooled a few people with it, so good on him. 

I thought it was for real right up until the reference to the IHR - I don't think even the most hardened Revisionist would refer to it in the same sentence as the verb 'learn' - it's a right wing version of Pravda, and not a very good one at that. 

But great post, Fedup - I really did have to read it 2 or 3 times to be sure you were joking.


----------



## feduptaxpayer

Sodafin said:


> feduptaxpayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's despicable laws that you have in Germany that put the lawyer for Ernst Zundel(Sylvia Stolz)in the gulag for defending Zundel. I wouldn't want to be a lawyer in Germany trying to defend freedom of speech. Talk about despicable morons, like yourself, you support those sillyass hate laws that put people like Zundel in the gulag for daring to deny,question or denigrate someone. Thank God for America, land of the free, home of the brave, and I thank God that I live next door to a country that has a 1st Amendment and believes in the right to freedom of speech unlike the rat hole of a country that you live in.
> Maybe you should go to websites like Institute for Historical Review and learn something for a change, if that is possible for you to crawl out of that bullshit world of yours and educate yourself.
> 
> PS:I don't need to use the word F--k like you do. I can debate without it. Chuckle-chuckle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm calling 'satire' on this one - though it looks like fedup fooled a few people with it, so good on him.
> 
> I thought it was for real right up until the reference to the IHR - I don't think even the most hardened Revisionist would refer to it in the same sentence as the verb 'learn' - it's a right wing version of Pravda, and not a very good one at that.
> 
> But great post, Fedup - I really did have to read it 2 or 3 times to be sure you were joking.
Click to expand...



Well maybe you should read it some more? I guess what you are really trying to say here is that you agree that people should be thrown in some gulag for daring to question,deny or denigrate someone? IHR is a great source for news and what is going on in the world. I think that most people are just to scared to know what is going on in the world. They would rather just live and hide in their shell and do/say nothing, while the world burns.   

But, if your only source of news events is going to be from the likes of ABC,NBC,CBS or FOX news only well good on you but then all you are going to get is one side of a news story, because those news outlets will never show balance or the other side, they just continue as they always do, show bias. 

Curious? Why did you call it a great post when it would appear you disagree with it?


----------



## Sodafin

I called it a great post because I took it as satire - which is still my gut feeling. 

Of your posts are intended as satire they are brilliant - if you are serious, they aren't.

Let's boil it down to one very simple Q & A:

Q: What was Zundel's previous profession?

A: UFOlogy, and selling tours to watch Nazi UFOs, which he claimed were hidden in Antarctica.

The man is a fraudster, pure and simple - so why would anyone pretend otherwise?


----------



## eots

Sodafin said:


> I called it a great post because I took it as satire - which is still my gut feeling.
> 
> Of your posts are intended as satire they are brilliant - if you are serious, they aren't.
> 
> Let's boil it down to one very simple Q & A:
> 
> Q: What was Zundel's previous profession?
> 
> A: UFOlogy, and selling tours to watch Nazi UFOs, which he claimed were hidden in Antarctica.
> 
> The man is a fraudster, pure and simple - so why would anyone pretend otherwise?



so now people should be incarcerated for believing in UFOs ?


----------



## Sodafin

Eots - 

No, people should be incarcerated for being con artists and fraudtsers.

Rather than just swallow everything the neo-Nazis tell you, do a little research on who this guy is, and what he has done. I doubt you'll have any further complaints about Canadian justice.

People really need to be a lot more cynical and a lot less gullible when considering these issues.


----------



## eots

Sodafin said:


> Eots -
> 
> No, people should be incarcerated for being con artists and fraudtsers.
> 
> Rather than just swallow everything the neo-Nazis tell you, do a little research on who this guy is, and what he has done. I doubt you'll have any further complaints about Canadian justice.
> 
> People really need to be a lot more cynical and a lot less gullible when considering these issues.



I don't give a rats asS what  Nazis have to say ... there are legal definitions for fraud and laws for fraud, the man was not charged with fraud, the man was not jailed for fraud


----------



## Sodafin

Eots - 

True - he was jailed for inciting racial hatred. Here is what Zundel said:

_Wherever we look, we White people find ourselves besieged by peoples of other races who compete aggressively against us for jobs, food, housing, education and above all -- power! The Jews are particularly adept at seizing or insinuating themselves into strategic positions in our society where they wield power far beyond the extent of their numbers....Through us, the White majority of Europe and America, the Jewish minority have obtained their advantages, including their Israel, their Federal Reserve, their World Bank and their International Monetary Fund. In exchange for these advantages, the Jews give us -- their White hosts -- wars, depressions, inflation, unemployment, energy shortages, higher and higher taxes and air piracy. Like sheep, they expect us to go down the road with them -- all the way to the kosher slaughterhouse. We White people of America have done nothing so far which would frustrate the Jews' expectations or their ambitions of becoming the world's slavemasters. _

What are your thoughts on this statement?

Did you know Jews created energy shortages, for instance?


----------



## eots

Big FN deal its one mans opinion.. I have seen far more _incitement of hate _just on this board alone..glen beck..reagan..penn and teller all suggested death or violence toward those seeking a re-investigation of 9/11 but I would be horrified to see them jailed for it


----------



## Sodafin

Eots - 

If Zundel was just some guy posting on a website I would agree - the problem was that he set up a publishing business and started pumping out books claiming Jews did this and Jews did that...I can well understand he was arrested. 

We should definitely be able to express our own opinions and talk about whatever we want to talk about, but at the point where we start pumping out books saying as fact that Jews created energy shortages etc - you can't complain if people get sick of it and want you to shut up. 

I'm not sure locking him up is the best solution, but at the same time, the guy is a nutter.


----------



## eots

Sodafin said:


> Eots -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zundel was just some guy posting on a website I would agree - the problem was that he set up a publishing business and started pumping out books claiming Jews did this and Jews did that...I can well understand he was arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhh..I seee...if you put your opinions on paper you should be jailed  its all soo clear now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We should definitely be able to express our own opinions and talk about whatever we want to talk about, but at the point where we start pumping out books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how many books denotes pumping them out ? is there a magic number ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saying as fact that Jews created energy shortages etc - you can't complain if people get sick of it and want you to shut up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Well heres a brainstorm stop reading the book ..write one to counter it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure locking him up is the best solution, but at the same time, the guy is a nutter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no it was not..but yet it was the _final solution.._and those that pass such laws are every bit as nuts
Click to expand...


----------



## Sodafin

Eots - 

I'm not sure why you find this difficult to understand, but both the law and common sense suggest there is a big different between saying to your friend over a beer "I hate jews" and publishing books which say "Hitler was right to kill Jews."

The main issue here is that a lot of people are very gullible and easily led - as we see even on this thread - and will simply believe anything any nutcase tells them.

The fact that this guy cut his teeth charging people money to go and look at hidden Nazi UFOs in Antarctica clearly isn't enough to warn people off.


----------



## eots

Sodafin said:


> Eots -
> 
> I'm not sure why you find this difficult to understand, but both the law and common sense suggest there is a big different between saying to your friend over a beer "I hate jews" and publishing books which say "Hitler was right to kill Jews."
> 
> The main issue here is that a lot of people are very gullible and easily led - as we see even on this thread - and will simply believe anything any nutcase tells them.
> 
> The fact that this guy cut his teeth charging people money to go and look at hidden Nazi UFOs in Antarctica clearly isn't enough to warn people off.



whats so  for you to understand..who cares what he thinks of UFOs its irrelevent..who cares if someone writes a book saying Hitler was right if people are so gullible write a book saying he was a nutcase according to you they will believe you...these laws where people put themselves in the role of the intellectual elite that know all truths and will decide what _the they_ are allowed to write or read are a far greater threat than this man could ever be...first they came for the holocaust revisionist..but said nothing for was not a holocaust revisonist...etc etc


God Bless America


----------



## feduptaxpayer

eots said:


> Sodafin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eots -
> 
> I'm not sure why you find this difficult to understand, but both the law and common sense suggest there is a big different between saying to your friend over a beer "I hate jews" and publishing books which say "Hitler was right to kill Jews."
> 
> The main issue here is that a lot of people are very gullible and easily led - as we see even on this thread - and will simply believe anything any nutcase tells them.
> 
> The fact that this guy cut his teeth charging people money to go and look at hidden Nazi UFOs in Antarctica clearly isn't enough to warn people off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats so  for you to understand..who cares what he thinks of UFOs its irrelevent..who cares if someone writes a book saying Hitler was right if people are so gullible write a book saying he was a nutcase according to you they will believe you...these laws where people put themselves in the role of the intellectual elite that know all truths and will decide what _the they_ are allowed to write or read are a far greater threat than this man could ever be...first they came for the holocaust revisionist..but said nothing for was not a holocaust revisonist...etc etc
> 
> 
> God Bless America
Click to expand...



"When people fear government, it is tryanny. When government fears people, it is democracy". It certainly looks like the former does appear to be the rule of today.


----------



## feduptaxpayer

Sodafin said:


> Eots -
> 
> I'm not sure why you find this difficult to understand, but both the law and common sense suggest there is a big different between saying to your friend over a beer "I hate jews" and publishing books which say "Hitler was right to kill Jews."
> 
> The main issue here is that a lot of people are very gullible and easily led - as we see even on this thread - and will simply believe anything any nutcase tells them.
> 
> The fact that this guy cut his teeth charging people money to go and look at hidden Nazi UFOs in Antarctica clearly isn't enough to warn people off.




(X)So what is the problem with some guy charging people money to go look at hidden Nazi UFO's in Antarctica? There are millions of people on earth who believe that just maybe alien civilizations colonized earth thousands of years ago and that we are decendents of those aliens. I am up in the air on that one, but many do believe it and many give very good explainations as to why they believe that the earth was and is now being visited by aliens from outerspace. It comes down to believing what you want to believe. That is anybody's right to do so, whether it appears crazy or not. 

Why does Hollywood constantly have movies and makes TV shows about the evils of Hitler, all the time, and yet very rare do they make movies about communism, one of the most terrifying ism's ever created. Communism killed more people than any other system on earth. And the old communist Russia was dominated and controlled by the chosen ones which should tell you something? Whether it be true or not, I don't know, but that information is out there, for all to read. Read what Henry Ford had to say about the chosen ones.

Anyway, why do we allow Communist parties to exist, when we should all know that communism is tryanny, but anyone who dares to try and form a Nazi Party, has to be nipped in the bud, right away? Does that not appear to be a bit suspicious to you?  

A few questions for you to have fun with. Go ahead, make your day.


----------



## germanguy

Hmm...

So far the only to political parties in Germany which have been prohibited have been the SRP, a small Nazi Party and the KPD, the communist party. 
So it´s even. 
At least in Germany.

The Commies have ruled East Germany for 40 years, nasty little police state it was, but the Nazis took 50 million people with them in WWII.
It took so far 1,2 trillion USD to reconstruct East Germany, so the outcome was also not -err ... convincing.
So, I can perfectly live with prohibiting them

regards 
ze germanguy


----------



## JWBooth

The guy is obviously a twit, but stupidity ought to be combated with facts, evidence, and ridicule.  Jail, it seems to me, does nothing but encourage other twits to bestow martyr status on this idiot.


----------



## feduptaxpayer

JWBooth said:


> The guy is obviously a twit, but stupidity ought to be combated with facts, evidence, and ridicule.  Jail, it seems to me, does nothing but encourage other twits to bestow martyr status on this idiot.




Is the guy a twit only because you don't like what he has to say? I mean let's face it we are all a bunch of twits in one way or another. I agree that facts,evidence and ridicule should be presented and that is what Zundel does. Throwing people in the gulag is not the answer. It shows that someone or some group has something to hide. But of course there are the elite, and maybe people like yourself, amongst us who don't want you and me to read or hear or know the truth. Let it all hang out and let people decide for themselves as to whether they want to believe what someone else has to say. If you don't like what Zundel has to say, well don't read or listen to what he has to say. Remember this, today it is Zundels turn who is jailed for his opinions, tomorrow it could be your turn. Yes, it can. 

How does that old saying go "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me". Are we becoming a bunch of censors and only want to allow my version of freedom of speech? Have we learned nothing from communism and it's tyranny?


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