# White man shoots innocent black teen....



## ABikerSailor

Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?



> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.



Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com

According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.  

A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.

The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.

To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.  

Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?


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## High_Gravity

Very sad story.


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## ABikerSailor

But see, the thing I'm still wondering is why the police didn't check the shooter to see if he was impaired (drunk or stoned), as well as why wasn't there a bit more investigation into this?

Never mind the fact that this idiot Zimmerman is still running around free, with no charges filed against him.


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## High_Gravity

ABikerSailor said:


> But see, the thing I'm still wondering is why the police didn't check the shooter to see if he was impaired (drunk or stoned), as well as why wasn't there a bit more investigation into this?
> 
> Never mind the fact that this idiot Zimmerman is still running around free, with no charges filed against him.



Those are very good questions, I bet the guy walks on all charges.


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## ABikerSailor

High_Gravity said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> But see, the thing I'm still wondering is why the police didn't check the shooter to see if he was impaired (drunk or stoned), as well as why wasn't there a bit more investigation into this?
> 
> Never mind the fact that this idiot Zimmerman is still running around free, with no charges filed against him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are very good questions, I bet the guy walks on all charges.
Click to expand...


What charges?  None have been filed yet.


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## High_Gravity

ABikerSailor said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> But see, the thing I'm still wondering is why the police didn't check the shooter to see if he was impaired (drunk or stoned), as well as why wasn't there a bit more investigation into this?
> 
> Never mind the fact that this idiot Zimmerman is still running around free, with no charges filed against him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are very good questions, I bet the guy walks on all charges.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What charges?  None have been filed yet.
Click to expand...


There you go.


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## uptownlivin90

The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home. From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.


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## ABikerSailor

uptownlivin90 said:


> The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home. From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.



Reports on this guy shows that he didn't make the police force, so he got himself a concealed gun permit, and oh yeah...........he's made lots of 911 calls to the police which were mostly nothing, and he'd been calling the police at about the rate of 1 call every 3 days.

Matter of fact, he also kinda self appointed himself to the neighborhood watch.


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## Truthmatters

Poor kid who crossed this nutters path.

What a handsome young man he was.

I cant imagine what his parents feel right now


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## Amelia

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> *Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?*
Click to expand...



I'm having trouble imagining any scenario in which a black neighborhood watch captain would have shot a white teenager carrying skittles.  So it is hard to answer but ... no ...  I don't think the result would have been the same.


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## Sallow

> When police came to the scene, Zimmerman dropped his weapon and told them he shot Martin in self defense. He has not been charged. Sanford police did not press charges against Zimmerman, telling the teen&#8217;s family that he had a &#8220;squeaky clean&#8221; record. He is a licensed gun owner studying criminal justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin's Murder: Was George Zimmerman's Motive Self-Defense or Racism? | NewsFeed | TIME.com



WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.

This fuck should have been charged.

This should be a death penalty case.


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## Amelia

Sallow said:


> When police came to the scene, Zimmerman dropped his weapon and told them he shot Martin in self defense. He has not been charged. Sanford police did not press charges against Zimmerman, telling the teens family that he had a squeaky clean record. He is a licensed gun owner studying criminal justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin's Murder: Was George Zimmerman's Motive Self-Defense or Racism? | NewsFeed | TIME.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
Click to expand...



It wasn't even true that he had a squeaky clean record.  



Iirc, there's a 911 tape where one of them was calling for help but the shooter claims he was the one who was asking for help.  I hope that that the forensic experts can tell whether it was the boy.   But maybe all those CSI shows have led me to expect too much.


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## Peach

Sallow said:


> When police came to the scene, Zimmerman dropped his weapon and told them he shot Martin in self defense. He has not been charged. Sanford police did not press charges against Zimmerman, telling the teens family that he had a squeaky clean record. He is a licensed gun owner studying criminal justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin's Murder: Was George Zimmerman's Motive Self-Defense or Racism? | NewsFeed | TIME.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
Click to expand...

**********************************************
Multiple versions of events from multiple sources. Let law enforcement investigate.


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## Emma

Amelia said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When police came to the scene, Zimmerman dropped his weapon and told them he shot Martin in self defense. He has not been charged. Sanford police did not press charges against Zimmerman, telling the teens family that he had a squeaky clean record. He is a licensed gun owner studying criminal justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin's Murder: Was George Zimmerman's Motive Self-Defense or Racism? | NewsFeed | TIME.com
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't even true that he had a squeaky clean record.
> 
> 
> 
> Iirc, there's a 911 tape where one of them was calling for help but the shooter claims he was the one who was asking for help.  I hope that that the forensic experts can tell whether it was the boy.   But maybe all those CSI shows have led me to expect too much.
Click to expand...


Oh no ... it's the kid screaming. then a single gunshot ...

GRAPHIC: Trayvon Martin 911 calls released | News - Home


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## Peach

Emma said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't even true that he had a squeaky clean record.
> 
> Iirc, there's a 911 tape where one of them was calling for help but the shooter claims he was the one who was asking for help.  I hope that that the forensic experts can tell whether it was the boy.   But maybe all those CSI shows have led me to expect too much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh no ... it's the kid screaming. then a single gunshot ...
> 
> GRAPHIC: Trayvon Martin 911 calls released | News - Home
Click to expand...

**************************************************
I've read varying accounts, not an open & shut case for law enforcement.


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## Sallow

Peach said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't even true that he had a squeaky clean record.
> 
> Iirc, there's a 911 tape where one of them was calling for help but the shooter claims he was the one who was asking for help.  I hope that that the forensic experts can tell whether it was the boy.   But maybe all those CSI shows have led me to expect too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no ... it's the kid screaming. then a single gunshot ...
> 
> GRAPHIC: Trayvon Martin 911 calls released | News - Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> **************************************************
> I've read varying accounts, not an open & shut case for law enforcement.
Click to expand...


Doesn't matter.

This guy committed a capital crime. No reason he should be walking around free.


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## RetiredGySgt

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...


I think if a black man claimed self defense and shot a white teen we would not even hear the color of either skin. But then that's just me. I mean how many times have blacks murdered whites and the facts were simply not reported nor any claims of hate crime made.

I suggest we leave it to the proper authorities to determine guilt or innocence.


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## Peach

Lee's department said it plans on passing its investigation over to the state's attorney office to determine whether to press charges against Zimmerman. Page 3: Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
************************************************************
The SA will thus decide if criminal charges are warranted.


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## Amelia

Emma said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't even true that he had a squeaky clean record.
> 
> 
> 
> Iirc, there's a 911 tape where one of them was calling for help but the shooter claims he was the one who was asking for help.  I hope that that the forensic experts can tell whether it was the boy.   But maybe all those CSI shows have led me to expect too much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh no ... it's the kid screaming. then a single gunshot ...
> 
> GRAPHIC: Trayvon Martin 911 calls released | News - Home
Click to expand...



That yelling went on a long time.  Very hard to believe it could have been the man.  He's a big guy.  He sounds like a complete *expletive deleted*, the kind who might have cried if anyone had ever really threatened him, but why would a boy holding skittles come at a hulk with a gun?

I sure do hope the FBI or whoever is studying it can get definitive results when they analyze that tape.


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## Sallow

Peach said:


> Lee's department said it plans on passing its investigation over to the state's attorney office to determine whether to press charges against Zimmerman. Page 3: Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
> ************************************************************
> The SA will thus decide if criminal charges are warranted.



He shot a guy in cold blood.

There's no reason he should be out and about.


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## Peach

Sallow said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lee's department said it plans on passing its investigation over to the state's attorney office to determine whether to press charges against Zimmerman. Page 3: Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
> ************************************************************
> The SA will thus decide if criminal charges are warranted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He shot a guy in cold blood.
> 
> There's no reason he should be out and about.
Click to expand...

*************************************************************
Varying witness accounts & OF COURSE the shooter claims self defense.


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## theHawk

Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.

Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.

Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.


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## Emma

Peach said:


> Lee's department said it plans on passing its investigation over to the state's attorney office to determine whether to press charges against Zimmerman. Page 3: Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
> ************************************************************
> The SA will thus decide if criminal charges are warranted.





> In an a letter to the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman's father contended his son is not a racist.
> 
> "*At no time did George follow* or confront Mr. Martin. When the true  details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the  letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George  Zimmerman in the media."



Liar. Your piece of shit son told the 911 operator he was following this kid.


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## bayoubill

theHawk said:


> <snip>... and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.



and, by definition, only white people can be racist...


eta correction: only white conservative people can be racist...


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## koshergrl

I see that Sallow opts for just skipping the whole innocent until proven guilty/trial thing.


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## theHawk

Emma said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lee's department said it plans on passing its investigation over to the state's attorney office to determine whether to press charges against Zimmerman. Page 3: Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
> ************************************************************
> The SA will thus decide if criminal charges are warranted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In an a letter to the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman's father contended his son is not a racist.
> 
> "*At no time did George follow* or confront Mr. Martin. When the true  details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the  letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George  Zimmerman in the media."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar. Your piece of shit son told the 911 operator he was following this kid.
Click to expand...


According to one caller, she is quite hysterical the whole time but she does say on two occasions(at about 21:30 and 23:43 in that link) the two men were wrestling with each other on the ground.


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## Amelia

theHawk said:


> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.





What do you mean "so long"?  

He wasn't on the phone with the police all that long.  Did you listen to the 911 calls?  The 34 minutes of 911 tape released has a lot of calls.  

The shooter got off the phone with the police. Sounded like he did it so he could follow the boy.  

And he wasn't on his property.


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## theHawk

koshergrl said:


> I see that Sallow opts for just skipping the whole innocent until proven guilty/trial thing.



Especially when the media makes it out to be a "white rightwinger gun nut".


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## Sallow

koshergrl said:


> I see that Sallow opts for just skipping the whole innocent until proven guilty/trial thing.



Not at all.

But generally you hold the guy until he comes up with bail.

At least.


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## Emma

theHawk said:


> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> *Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place,*  and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.



A Hispanic can't be racist? 

Regarding where the shooting took place, several of the 911 callers describe that this happened behind their homes, and then this from the link posted above: 

*Martin had been staying at his father's girlfriend's house* during the night of the NBA all-star game Feb. 26. 



 On his way back into the gated suburban Orlando community after stepping out, Martin, wearing a hood, was spotted by Zimmerman. 



 Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded  sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents  at a town hall. 



 A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle. 
 But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red  sweatshirt and *pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses,  about 70 yards from where the teen was going.*


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## Sallow

theHawk said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see that Sallow opts for just skipping the whole innocent until proven guilty/trial thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially when the media makes it out to be a "white rightwinger gun nut".
Click to expand...


He KILLED an unarmed man. For..um..going to the store to pick up snacks.

At the very least he should be held until they set bail.


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## 007

RetiredGySgt said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think if a black man claimed self defense and shot a white teen we would not even hear the color of either skin. But then that's just me. I mean how many times have blacks murdered whites and the facts were simply not reported nor any claims of hate crime made.
> 
> I suggest we leave it to the proper authorities to determine guilt or innocence.
Click to expand...


You're not supposed to bring that up. Shootings aren't a story unless it's a black getting shot. Nobody gives a rats ass that blacks shoot innocent whites far more often.


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## theHawk

Amelia said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean "so long"?
> 
> He wasn't on the phone with the police all that long.  Did you listen to the 911 calls?  The 34 minutes of 911 tape released has a lot of calls.
> 
> The shooter got off the phone with the police. Sounded like he did it so he could follow the boy.
> 
> And he wasn't on his property.
Click to expand...


Yes I did listen.  He was on the phone with police for quite a long time, giving very long description of what the kid was doing (standing around, looking at houses, looking at him), and giving them detailed description of how to get to their location.


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## Emma

theHawk said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lee's department said it plans on passing its investigation over to the state's attorney office to determine whether to press charges against Zimmerman. Page 3: Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
> ************************************************************
> The SA will thus decide if criminal charges are warranted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In an a letter to the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman's father contended his son is not a racist.
> 
> "*At no time did George follow* or confront Mr. Martin. When the true  details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the  letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George  Zimmerman in the media."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Liar. Your piece of shit son told the 911 operator he was following this kid.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to one caller, she is quite hysterical the whole time but she does say on two occasions(at about 21:30 and 23:43 in that link) the two men were wrestling with each other on the ground.
Click to expand...


Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted. 

His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.


----------



## Sallow

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Liar. Your piece of shit son told the 911 operator he was following this kid.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to one caller, she is quite hysterical the whole time but she does say on two occasions(at about 21:30 and 23:43 in that link) the two men were wrestling with each other on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
Click to expand...


Don't bother..reality doesn't matter to them.

Fiction is key.


----------



## bayoubill

Sallow said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see that Sallow opts for just skipping the whole innocent until proven guilty/trial thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially when the media makes it out to be a "white rightwinger gun nut".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He KILLED an unarmed man. For..um..going to the store to pick up snacks.
> 
> At the very least he should be held until they set bail.
Click to expand...


FINALLY Sallow puts up a post I can agree with...


----------



## Amelia

theHawk said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean "so long"?
> 
> He wasn't on the phone with the police all that long.  Did you listen to the 911 calls?  The 34 minutes of 911 tape released has a lot of calls.
> 
> The shooter got off the phone with the police. Sounded like he did it so he could follow the boy.
> 
> And he wasn't on his property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I did listen.  He was on the phone with police for quite a long time, giving very long description of what the kid was doing (standing around, looking at houses, looking at him), and giving them detailed description of how to get to their location.
Click to expand...



And then when the police tried to get him to stay in one place and wait for the officers to show up, he asked for the officers to call him back instead because he wouldn't commit to being in one location because he wanted to go follow the boy. 

Those screams for help went on a long time.  Whoever was screaming was in great fear.  And I don't think it was the 6 foot hulk with the gun who was doing the screaming even though I bet he would squeal like a pig if he ever was threatened.  

I am willing to wait until the tapes are analyzed.  


But it is very frustrating that the police lied about the shooter's record and seemed to think that they could get away with just dropping the case because the shooter who stalked that boy cried "self-defense".


----------



## theHawk

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Liar. Your piece of shit son told the 911 operator he was following this kid.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to one caller, she is quite hysterical the whole time but she does say on two occasions(at about 21:30 and 23:43 in that link) the two men were wrestling with each other on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
Click to expand...


Because I really don't care what the parents of either party has to say, none of them witnessed it.

I was simply pointed out that an actual eye witness stated that the two men were wrestling with each other.

If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.


----------



## theHawk

Sallow said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to one caller, she is quite hysterical the whole time but she does say on two occasions(at about 21:30 and 23:43 in that link) the two men were wrestling with each other on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't bother..reality doesn't matter to them.
> 
> Fiction is key.
Click to expand...


The reality is none of the parents witnessed it, so what they have to say is of little consequence.

The one person so far who actually saw it happen says the two were wrestling with each other.

Not that reality really matters to you though.


----------



## Amelia

theHawk said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't bother..reality doesn't matter to them.
> 
> Fiction is key.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The reality is none of the parents witnessed it, so what they have to say is of little consequence.
> 
> The one person so far who actually saw it happen says the two were wrestling with each other.
> 
> Not that reality really matters to you though.
Click to expand...



The SHOOTER said he was following the boy.  I thought you said you listened to the tape.


----------



## Emma

theHawk said:


> Yes I did listen.  He was on the phone with police for quite a long time, giving very long description of what the kid was doing (standing around, looking at houses, looking at him), and giving them detailed description of how to get to their location.



Supposedly there had been some burglaries in the area. Wanna engage in some good ol' fashioned profiling? Look at the photos of the two involved, and tell me who you would consider the biggest threat ... 









... a kid walking along, carrying ice tea and candy, or a man sitting in his car and scoping out the neighborhood. Maybe Trayvon thought _Zimmerman_ was up to no good, maybe that is why Trayvon was "looking at him".


----------



## Sallow

theHawk said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't bother..reality doesn't matter to them.
> 
> Fiction is key.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The reality is none of the parents witnessed it, so what they have to say is of little consequence.
> 
> The one person so far who actually saw it happen says the two were wrestling with each other.
> 
> Not that reality really matters to you though.
Click to expand...


Why the fuck was he wrestling with him?

Why did he follow him in the first place. He called the police. That SHOULD have been the end of it.

He stalked the guy..then he shot him.

That alone gives him a window into the world of lethal injection.


----------



## Crackerjack

I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.

From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route.  It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.


----------



## Emma

theHawk said:


> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.


Really? 

If someone with a gun was running after you and caught up to you,  and you had the chance to grab or deflect it away, they'd be within their rights to shoot you?


----------



## Sallow

Crackerjack said:


> I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.
> 
> From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route.  It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.



That's why the Feds need to step in.


----------



## Crackerjack

theHawk said:


> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.


Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.


----------



## theHawk

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> *Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place,*  and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Hispanic can't be racist?
> 
> Regarding where the shooting took place, several of the 911 callers describe that this happened behind their homes, and then this from the link posted above:
> 
> *Martin had been staying at his father's girlfriend's house* during the night of the NBA all-star game Feb. 26.
> 
> 
> 
> On his way back into the gated suburban Orlando community after stepping out, Martin, wearing a hood, was spotted by Zimmerman.
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded  sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents  at a town hall.
> 
> 
> 
> A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.
> But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red  sweatshirt and *pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses,  about 70 yards from where the teen was going.*
Click to expand...


According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.

Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening.  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.


----------



## Emma

theHawk said:


> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening*.  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.



What crime was Trayvon committing?


----------



## Dante

news reports not telling whole story

true story




ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?



yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.

and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.

hello?

neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others


----------



## theHawk

Crackerjack said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
Click to expand...


Absolutely false.  People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened.  If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.

And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response?  Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.


----------



## Crackerjack

Sallow said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.
> 
> From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route.  It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the Feds need to step in.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see what the state does with it first.

I just think it's a lot easier for the kid's family to clear the civil standard of proof than it would be for the DA to meet the criminal one.  There's just too many moving parts with which a defense attorney could use to confuse a jury.


----------



## Emma

Dante said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.
> 
> and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.
> 
> hello?
> 
> neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others
Click to expand...


Is this groundhog day all over again?


----------



## theHawk

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening*.  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What crime was Trayvon committing?
Click to expand...


Quite possibly prowling around on people's private property.  You don't think people ever scope out houses to break into them?


----------



## Dante

Crackerjack said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
Click to expand...


in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.


----------



## Dante

yep



Emma said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.
> 
> and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.
> 
> hello?
> 
> neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is this groundhog day all over again?
Click to expand...


----------



## Crackerjack

theHawk said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely false.  People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened.  If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.
Click to expand...

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."



theHawk said:


> And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response?  Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.


George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.

 indeed.


----------



## Emma

theHawk said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely false.  People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened.  If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.
> 
> And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response?  Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.
Click to expand...


So ... if someone with a gun was chasing then caught you, you'd not try to take or deflect their weapon if you had the chance? And you believe if you did, they'd have the legal right to shoot you?


----------



## Dante

where is Ravi on this? Is  Ravi a male Hispanic?


----------



## Peach

Sallow said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.
> 
> From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route.  It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the Feds need to step in.
Click to expand...

********************************************
Most news accounts state Zimmerman followed the teenager; some say the shooter was "neighborhood watch", others SELF APPOINTED watch. I hope the SA moves fast on this case.


----------



## Dante

> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> The letter does not provide details about what happened Feb. 26 on a walkway in the gated community where George Zimmerman lives and where Trayvon was visiting. But* it does challenge one basic assumption of the family's lawyers: that Zimmerman's intent when he got out of his sport utility vehicle was to confront Trayvon after calling police to report a suspicious person.*
> 
> "*At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.* When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."


George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


----------



## Emma

Crackerjack said:


> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."



Seems like Zimmerman wasn't the one being threatened. He wasn't the one being watched then chased by a man with a gun.


----------



## theHawk

Dante said:


> news reports not telling whole story
> 
> true story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.
> 
> and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.
> 
> hello?
> 
> neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others
Click to expand...


Uh-oh, that doesn't fit the media narrative that he is a gun nut that shot the kid in cold blood.


By the way, was this kid shot in the back or the front?  At what range?


----------



## Crackerjack

Dante said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
Click to expand...

Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.


----------



## bayoubill

Sallow said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.
> 
> From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route.  It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the Feds need to step in.
Click to expand...


oh for sure... the Feds will save the day...


----------



## Sallow

theHawk said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> *Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place,*  and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Hispanic can't be racist?
> 
> Regarding where the shooting took place, several of the 911 callers describe that this happened behind their homes, and then this from the link posted above:
> 
> *Martin had been staying at his father's girlfriend's house* during the night of the NBA all-star game Feb. 26.
> 
> 
> 
> On his way back into the gated suburban Orlando community after stepping out, Martin, wearing a hood, was spotted by Zimmerman.
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded  sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents  at a town hall.
> 
> 
> 
> A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.
> But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red  sweatshirt and *pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses,  about 70 yards from where the teen was going.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening.  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
Click to expand...


Well I suppose..given that's the law..one of the family members can legally blow this guy's head off. After all..he killed a family member..right?

How much more of a threat do you need?


----------



## Dante

> Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt &#8212; Zimmerman &#8212; who was on the ground.



you people are so stupid. you are making things up without at least a news source.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


----------



## Dante

theHawk said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> news reports not telling whole story
> 
> true story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.
> 
> and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.
> 
> hello?
> 
> neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh-oh, that doesn't fit the media narrative that he is a gun nut that shot the kid in cold blood.
> 
> 
> By the way, was this kid shot in the back or the front?  At what range?
Click to expand...

that is NOT the media narrative. that is one media narrative. the straight news, never said anything like that. never


----------



## Sallow

bayoubill said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.
> 
> From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route.  It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the Feds need to step in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh for sure... the Feds will save the day...
Click to expand...


Well it sounds like the locals are doing a "bang up" job..don't it?

His record is "squeaky clean" so we have a one murder rule around here..dang it.


----------



## Emma

Dante said:


> "*At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.* When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."



Well, we know that's a lie because Zimmerman himself told the dispatcher he was following this kid. 

I'm not arguing that Zimmerman is racist, not enough has come out about his background to make that determination, and him being hispanic doesn't preclude him from being racist in any case. 

 I do think he's a cold-blooded murderer.


----------



## Peach

Crackerjack said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
Click to expand...

******************************************************
Yes..................................................thus, more complex.


----------



## Dante

Crackerjack said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
Click to expand...


deadly force? only to prevent deadly force?


----------



## Emma

Sallow said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the Feds need to step in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh for sure... the Feds will save the day...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well it sounds like the locals are doing a "bang up" job..don't it?
> 
> His record is "squeaky clean" so we have a one murder rule around here..dang it.
Click to expand...


My record is squeaky clean too. Perhaps I should move to Florida and break bad---but only once, of course. So I best make it a good one ...


----------



## Crackerjack

Emma said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like Zimmerman wasn't the one being threatened. He wasn't the one being watched then chased by a man with a gun.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it stretches credulity to the breaking point to believe that an unarmed individual not named Bruce Lee was delivering deadly force to an armed individual twice his size.


----------



## Dante

> Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?
> 
> A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:
> 
> Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
> Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.
> 
> Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.
> 
> Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.



Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS


----------



## theHawk

Crackerjack said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely false.  People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened.  If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response?  Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.
> 
> indeed.
Click to expand...


LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.


----------



## Crackerjack

Dante said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> 
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> deadly force? only to prevent deadly force?
Click to expand...

That's been the standard for self defense in most places that follow the English common law for a _very_ long time.


----------



## Dante

Emma said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> "*At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.* When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we know that's a lie because Zimmerman himself told the dispatcher he was following this kid.
> 
> I'm not arguing that Zimmerman is racist, not enough has come out about his background to make that determination, and him being hispanic doesn't preclude him from being racist in any case.
> 
> I do think he's a cold-blooded murderer.
Click to expand...


we don't know any such things. following in a car or on foot? not following from car?  you are misunderstanding you listening to a tape and reading text for being able to state facts.


----------



## Emma

I didn't realize the police were in the habit of granting a mulligan to first-time criminals.


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you people are so stupid. you are making things up without at least a news source.
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
Click to expand...


I wonder what "truth" would have Zimmerman out of his SUV and wrestling with Trayvon..that averts the whole "confronting" thing.

Perhaps Trayvon hook a chain to the SUV so it could follow him..then at the right moment "yanked" the much larger Zimmerman out of the truck.

That might work.


----------



## Emma

Crackerjack said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like Zimmerman wasn't the one being threatened. He wasn't the one being watched then chased by a man with a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The problem is that it stretches credulity to the breaking point to believe that an unarmed individual not named Bruce Lee was delivering deadly force to an armed individual twice his size.
Click to expand...


That too ...


----------



## Crackerjack

theHawk said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely false.  People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened.  If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response?  Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.
> 
> indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
Click to expand...

You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.


----------



## Amelia

Dante said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
Click to expand...




If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?


----------



## Amelia

Dante said:


> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> The letter does not provide details about what happened Feb. 26 on a walkway in the gated community where George Zimmerman lives and where Trayvon was visiting. But* it does challenge one basic assumption of the family's lawyers: that Zimmerman's intent when he got out of his sport utility vehicle was to confront Trayvon after calling police to report a suspicious person.*
> 
> "*At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.* When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
Click to expand...



Did Zimmermann's father make his statement before the 911 tapes were released?


Sounds like maybe George lied to Dad and didn't count on the tapes getting out.


----------



## Dante

Crackerjack said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deadly force? only to prevent deadly force?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's been the standard for self defense in most places that follow the English common law for a _very_ long time.
Click to expand...


bodily harm?  you are using a legal definition of deadly force. Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS  that is not what most people mean by deadly force. 

all you have to do is explain that you are using a legal definition as opposed to a commonly understood definition.


----------



## Dante

Amelia said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> The letter does not provide details about what happened Feb. 26 on a walkway in the gated community where George Zimmerman lives and where Trayvon was visiting. But* it does challenge one basic assumption of the family's lawyers: that Zimmerman's intent when he got out of his sport utility vehicle was to confront Trayvon after calling police to report a suspicious person.*
> 
> "*At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.* When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did Zimmermann's father make his statement before the 911 tapes were released?
> 
> 
> Sounds like George lied to Dad and didn't count on the tapes getting out.
Click to expand...


you don't get it. the tapes taken out of context mean nothing. what people mean when they use words may differ ...  was Zimmerman following the kid in a car? 

you only have the tapes? this is why most juries never understand the general public, people like you imagine they know what happens based on little to no evidence


----------



## theHawk

Crackerjack said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.
> 
> indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
Click to expand...


Don't have to, it happens quite often around here and the home owners aren't arrested.


----------



## bayoubill

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I did listen.  He was on the phone with police for quite a long time, giving very long description of what the kid was doing (standing around, looking at houses, looking at him), and giving them detailed description of how to get to their location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supposedly there had been some burglaries in the area. Wanna engage in some good ol' fashioned profiling? Look at the photos of the two involved, and tell me who you would consider the biggest threat ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... a kid walking along, carrying ice tea and candy, or a man sitting in his car and scoping out the neighborhood. Maybe Trayvon thought _Zimmerman_ was up to no good, maybe that is why Trayvon was "looking at him".
Click to expand...


external appearances are good enough for me... 

jes' look at that guy Zimmerman... his eyes are too close together... plus he's got a sorta Jewish name... what's with that...?! obviously an uber-sneaky wetback...

I say we storm the town and string Zimmerman up from the nearest tree branch...


----------



## Emma

Dante said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> "*At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.* When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we know that's a lie because Zimmerman himself told the dispatcher he was following this kid.
> 
> I'm not arguing that Zimmerman is racist, not enough has come out about his background to make that determination, and him being hispanic doesn't preclude him from being racist in any case.
> 
> I do think he's a cold-blooded murderer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> we don't know any such things. following in a car or on foot? not following from car?  you are misunderstanding you listening to a tape and reading text for being able to state facts.
Click to expand...


You hear the door open and the tone alarming as he gets out of the car ... you hear the fat fuck gasping for breath as he goes after this kid ... you hear him TELL the dispatcher he's following him ... 

But most of all ... you have him shooting the kid in the grass next to a walkway between a row of townhouses --- no street there, no tire tracks in the grass, just torn up chunks of grass where he wrestled the kid and shot him. So it's pretty damned obvious he did not chase him down in his car.


----------



## Dante

Amelia said:


> If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?




that's just it. you do NOT know that anyone was stalked. and you do not know exactly HOW the lethal confrontation developed. did the young man (no kid) attack the man in the car, or attack the man while the man was on foot?

who says anywhere (link) that the man pulled out the gun before a confrontation developed?


----------



## Crackerjack

theHawk said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't have to, it happens quite often around here and the home owners aren't arrested.
Click to expand...

Sure it does.


----------



## mudwhistle

ABikerSailor said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> But see, the thing I'm still wondering is why the police didn't check the shooter to see if he was impaired (drunk or stoned), as well as why wasn't there a bit more investigation into this?
> 
> Never mind the fact that this idiot Zimmerman is still running around free, with no charges filed against him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are very good questions, I bet the guy walks on all charges.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What charges?  None have been filed yet.
Click to expand...


Why can't we just get along?????


----------



## Dante

Emma said:


> You hear the door open and the tone alarming as he gets out of the car ... you hear the fat fuck gasping for breath as he goes after this kid ... you hear him TELL the dispatcher he's following him ...
> 
> But most of all ... you have him shooting the kid in the grass next to a walkway between a row of townhouses --- no street there, no tire tracks in the grass, just torn up chunks of grass where he wrestled the kid and shot him. So it's pretty damned obvious he did not chase him down in his car.



your idiocy knows no bounds. 

we have a eye witness (not the word of god, but...) saying...

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground.


George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> news reports not telling whole story
> 
> true story
> 
> yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.
> 
> and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.
> 
> hello?
> 
> neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh-oh, that doesn't fit the media narrative that he is a gun nut that shot the kid in cold blood.
> 
> 
> By the way, was this kid shot in the back or the front?  At what range?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that is NOT the media narrative. that is one media narrative. the straight news, never said anything like that. never
Click to expand...

**********************************************
VARYING ACCOUNTS FROM VARYING SOURCES. Story remains muddled. Florida's so called "stand your ground" law in the middle. What is straight news? IF the 911 calls are accurate, Zimmerman decided to follow the teenager, what happened after that is unclear. The death of the young man remains; I doubt police on the scene had access to Zimmerman's prior battery charge; probably either dismissed,  pled down, or a no contest, withheld ajd. disposal.


----------



## bayoubill

Emma said:


> I didn't realize the police were in the habit of granting a mulligan to first-time criminals.



okay... that's a good one...


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> I wonder what "truth" would have Zimmerman out of his SUV and wrestling with Trayvon..that averts the whole "confronting" thing.
> 
> Perhaps Trayvon hook a chain to the SUV so it could follow him..then at the right moment "yanked" the much larger Zimmerman out of the truck.
> 
> That might work.



just the facts douchebagh, just the facts


----------



## Sallow

Crackerjack said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.
> 
> indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
Click to expand...


Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.


----------



## Amelia

Dante said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's just it. you do NOT know that anyone was stalked. and you do not know exactly HOW the lethal confrontation developed. did the young man (no kid) attack the man in the car, or attack the man while the man was on foot?
> 
> who says anywhere (link) that the man pulled out the gun before a confrontation developed?
Click to expand...



Zimmerman followed Trayvon in his SUV and then got out and followed him on foot.


----------



## Emma

Dante said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's just it. you do NOT know that anyone was stalked. and you do not know exactly HOW the lethal confrontation developed. did the young man (no kid) attack the man in the car, or attack the man while the man was on foot?
> 
> who says anywhere (link) that the man pulled out the gun before a confrontation developed?
Click to expand...


Zimmerman _admitted_ following Trayvon. And Trayvon did not attack Zimmerman while Zimmerman was in his car --- that much is clear from the tape.


----------



## Peach

bayoubill said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize the police were in the habit of granting a mulligan to first-time criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay... that's a good one...
Click to expand...

*************************************************
Florida is a state wherein SECOND Amendment rights are respected, if not ADORED. The shooter claims "self defense". I hope the SA works fast.


----------



## theHawk

Sallow said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.
Click to expand...


I'm not a Texan, asshole.


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what "truth" would have Zimmerman out of his SUV and wrestling with Trayvon..that averts the whole "confronting" thing.
> 
> Perhaps Trayvon hook a chain to the SUV so it could follow him..then at the right moment "yanked" the much larger Zimmerman out of the truck.
> 
> That might work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just the facts douchebagh, just the facts
Click to expand...


What's a douchebagh?

And you seemed to skip over a few points there..skippy.


----------



## bayoubill

Sallow said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.
Click to expand...


funny thing... I've heard similar stuff said about folks in NYC...


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> VARYING ACCOUNTS FROM VARYING SOURCES. Story remains muddled. Florida's so called "stand your ground" law in the middle.
> 
> What is straight news? IF the 911 calls are accurate, Zimmerman decided to follow the teenager, what happened after that is unclear.
> 
> The death of the young man remains; I doubt police on the scene had access to Zimmerman's prior battery charge; probably either dismissed,  pled down, or a no contest, withheld ajd. disposal.



The calls are accurate. What they mean is open to question. How they relate to what transpired will be open to competing theories.



> Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."
> 
> Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, *she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account*.




George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


----------



## Sallow

theHawk said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Texan, asshole.
Click to expand...


Well Texans wouldn't consider you one..unless you were born there.

But Texas is a state filled with treasonous assholes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubzG1CFi8cs]"Sovereignty or Secession" Rally in Austin, Texas - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Emma

Dante said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> You hear the door open and the tone alarming as he gets out of the car ... you hear the fat fuck gasping for breath as he goes after this kid ... you hear him TELL the dispatcher he's following him ...
> 
> But most of all ... you have him shooting the kid in the grass next to a walkway between a row of townhouses --- no street there, no tire tracks in the grass, just torn up chunks of grass where he wrestled the kid and shot him. So it's pretty damned obvious he did not chase him down in his car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your idiocy knows no bounds.
> 
> we have a eye witness (not the word of god, but...) saying...
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground.
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-tray...immerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.story
Click to expand...


That does nothing to contradict anything I posted.


----------



## bayoubill

Peach said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize the police were in the habit of granting a mulligan to first-time criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay... that's a good one...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *************************************************
> Florida is a state wherein SECOND Amendment rights are respected, if not ADORED. The shooter claims "self defense". I hope the SA works fast.
Click to expand...


eh...?


----------



## Dante

Emma said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are stalking someone and pointing a gun at them and they grab for your gun in self defense that gives you all the justification you need to shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's just it. you do NOT know that anyone was stalked. and you do not know exactly HOW the lethal confrontation developed. did the young man (no kid) attack the man in the car, or attack the man while the man was on foot?
> 
> who says anywhere (link) that the man pulled out the gun before a confrontation developed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman _admitted_ following Trayvon. And Trayvon did not attack Zimmerman while Zimmerman was in his car --- that much is clear from the tape.
Click to expand...


the tape is NOT all there is. 


Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, *she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.*

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

"He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

 black 
​


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> *************************************************
> Florida is a state wherein SECOND Amendment rights are respected, if not ADORED. The shooter claims "self defense". I hope the SA works fast.



*******************************************
peach
**************************************

learn how not to fuck up every post
**************************************************

sheesh
*********************************************

get it?

dick

​


----------



## Sallow

bayoubill said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> funny thing... I've heard similar stuff said about folks in NYC...
Click to expand...


You could have "heard" that..but New York was one of the thirteen Colonies. Hamilton is buried in NYC. And Washington often bent an arm or two at the Fraunces Tavern..as did the Sons of Liberty..as did I.

Fraunces Tavern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Texas? Johnny come latelys that joined the treasonous bastards during the civil war.

What a stinkhole.


----------



## Peach

dante said:


> peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> *************************************************
> florida is a state wherein second amendment rights are respected, if not adored. The shooter claims "self defense". I hope the sa works fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *******************************************
> peach
> **************************************
> 
> learn how not to fuck up every post
> **************************************************
> 
> sheesh
> *********************************************
> 
> get it?
Click to expand...

______________________________________________
n
****************************
o


----------



## Dante

Emma said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> You hear the door open and the tone alarming as he gets out of the car ... you hear the fat fuck gasping for breath as he goes after this kid ... you hear him TELL the dispatcher he's following him ...
> 
> But most of all ... you have him shooting the kid in the grass next to a walkway between a row of townhouses --- no street there, no tire tracks in the grass, just torn up chunks of grass where he wrestled the kid and shot him. So it's pretty damned obvious he did not chase him down in his car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your idiocy knows no bounds.
> 
> we have a eye witness (not the word of god, but...) saying...
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground.
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-tray...immerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That does nothing to contradict anything I posted.
Click to expand...


everything you posted is NOT evidence, and you are posting as if it is. It is not even verified fact. the man was seen on the ground after the shooting. how did he get there? how did a struggle ensue? the scenarios are many.

yet you and all the creeps like you pretend to have THE only scenario that fits your pre-concepted views


----------



## Sallow

Oh look..here's another treasonous texan talking about secession...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3PZSLjhmA]Ron Paul talks about secession... in front of the Confederate Flag - YouTube[/ame]

Fucking traitors..I tell you what.


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> *************************************************
> florida is a state wherein second amendment rights are respected, if not adored. The shooter claims "self defense". I hope the sa works fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *******************************************
> peach
> **************************************
> 
> learn how not to fuck up every post
> **************************************************
> 
> sheesh
> *********************************************
> 
> get it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ______________________________________________
> n
> ****************************
> o
Click to expand...


----------



## Peach

bayoubill said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay... that's a good one...
> 
> 
> 
> *************************************************
> Florida is a state wherein SECOND Amendment rights are respected, if not ADORED. The shooter claims "self defense". I hope the SA works fast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> eh...?
Click to expand...


Florida has a self defense law nicknamed "STAND YOUR GROUND". And, the SA now says it will take WEEKS to analyze all the evidence, including voice analysis, conflicting witness statements, autopsy, etc. :
________________________________________________________
Inside the Seminole County Courthouse, a handful of student protesters and a law professor from Florida A&M University met with a representative of the state attorney's office to discuss the ongoing investigation.
Assistant State Attorney Pat Whitaker told the group it would take several weeks to look at the case, but that the "investigation of the Sanford police needs to be greatly supplemented," Jasmine Rand, the FAMU professor, said after the meeting.

Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest - CNN.com


----------



## theHawk

Sallow said:


> Well Texans wouldn't consider you one..unless you were born there.
> 
> But Texas is a state filled with treasonous assholes.



You're right.  There are a lot of liberals up in Austin.


----------



## bayoubill

Sallow said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny thing... I've heard similar stuff said about folks in NYC...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You could have "heard" that..but New York was one of the thirteen Colonies. Hamilton is buried in NYC. And Washington often bent an arm or two at the Fraunces Tavern..as did the Sons of Liberty..as did I.
> 
> Fraunces Tavern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Texas? Johnny come latelys that joined the treasonous bastards during the civil war.
> 
> What a stinkhole.
Click to expand...


lol... been a long time since last we shared a thread... which was prolly way back in our Hansterland days...

I almost nearly forgot how much fun it is to have you around... 


btw... do you still get all bent outta shape when folks refer to you as "Swallow"...?:


----------



## Dante

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

News Flash: Full Story not in yet.


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *******************************************
> peach
> **************************************
> 
> learn how not to fuck up every post
> **************************************************
> 
> sheesh
> *********************************************
> 
> get it?
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> n
> ****************************
> o
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


CRUEL & UNUSUAL punishment..................................also, Florida law allows deadly force if an individual reasonably believes such force will/can be used against the individual. (ROUGH TRANSLATION.) Lots more justifiable homicide defenses since self defense is subjective.


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> n
> ****************************
> o
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> CRUEL & UNUSUAL punishment..................................also, Florida law allows deadly force if an individual reasonably believes such force will/can be used against the individual. (ROUGH TRANSLATION.) Lots more justifiable homicide defenses since self defense is subjective.
Click to expand...


all the more reason to get the hell out of Florida. 

but seriously, I believe there are a lot more justifiable homicides than the law allows. criminals get away with shit using technicalities in law.


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRUEL & UNUSUAL punishment..................................also, Florida law allows deadly force if an individual reasonably believes such force will/can be used against the individual. (ROUGH TRANSLATION.) Lots more justifiable homicide defenses since self defense is subjective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> all the more reason to get the hell out of Florida.
> 
> but seriously, I believe there are a lot more justifiable homicides than the law allows. criminals get away with shit using technicalities in law.
Click to expand...


I'm only a few miles from the Georgia line*. Yes, laws & sympathetic juries are a part of the system.


* My mother used to say : "This isn't Alabama" . Pretty darn close to it though in much of north Florida.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

In Florida: 



> The Stand Your Ground Law introduced two (2) conclusive presumptions that favor a criminal defendant who is making a self-defense claim:
> 
> The presumption that the defendant had a reasonable fear that deadly force was necessary; and
> 
> The presumption that the intruder intended to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
> 
> These two presumptions protect the defender from both civil and criminal prosecution for unlawful use of deadly or non-deadly force in self-defense. In addition, the defender/gun owner has no duty to retreat, regardless of where he is attacked, so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs.
> 
> Tampa, Florida Weapons Defense Lawyer :: Florida&rsquo;s &ldquo;Stand Your Ground&rdquo; Law and Self-Defense :: Pasco County, Florida Criminal Attorney



*so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs.*

Which could be construed as applying to self-defense in ones neighborhood, particullary a so called gated community. 

This is likely why Zimmerman hasnt been charged. 



> From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route. It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.



The law also prohibits wrongful death civil suits by the family of a person killed in such circumstances.


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> CRUEL & UNUSUAL punishment..................................also, Florida law allows deadly force if an individual reasonably believes such force will/can be used against the individual. (ROUGH TRANSLATION.) Lots more justifiable homicide defenses since self defense is subjective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all the more reason to get the hell out of Florida.
> 
> but seriously, I believe there are a lot more justifiable homicides than the law allows. criminals get away with shit using technicalities in law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm only a few miles from the Georgia line*. Yes, laws & sympathetic juries are a part of the system.
> 
> 
> * My mother used to say : "This isn't Alabama" . Pretty darn close to it though in much of north Florida.
Click to expand...


The crime stats down there don't look so good. The types of crime.


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> all the more reason to get the hell out of Florida.
> 
> but seriously, I believe there are a lot more justifiable homicides than the law allows. criminals get away with shit using technicalities in law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm only a few miles from the Georgia line*. Yes, laws & sympathetic juries are a part of the system.
> 
> 
> * My mother used to say : "This isn't Alabama" . Pretty darn close to it though in much of north Florida.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The crime stats down there don't look so good. The types of crime.
Click to expand...


Meth labs, too many with guns, and lots of out of state visitors are just part of "The Florida Sunshine Tree".


----------



## Peach

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> In Florida:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Stand Your Ground Law introduced two (2) conclusive presumptions that favor a criminal defendant who is making a self-defense claim:
> 
> The presumption that the defendant had a reasonable fear that deadly force was necessary; and
> 
> The presumption that the intruder intended to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
> 
> These two presumptions protect the defender from both civil and criminal prosecution for unlawful use of deadly or non-deadly force in self-defense. In addition, the defender/gun owner has no duty to retreat, regardless of where he is attacked, so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs.
> 
> Tampa, Florida Weapons Defense Lawyer :: Florida&rsquo;s &ldquo;Stand Your Ground&rdquo; Law and Self-Defense :: Pasco County, Florida Criminal Attorney
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs.*
> 
> Which could be construed as applying to self-defense in ones neighborhood, particullary a so called gated community.
> 
> This is likely why Zimmerman hasnt been charged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route. It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The law also prohibits wrongful death civil suits by the family of a person killed in such circumstances.
Click to expand...



The facts are yet to be determined; that may explain why there was no "quick arrest".


----------



## bayoubill

what I can easily imagine what actually happened:

black kid, returning from convenience store to his father's house, attracts the attention of an overzealous loser who's taken it upon himself to patrol the neighborhood... 

even though his father lives there, the black kid is unfamiliar to the loser because he's not a resident...

black kid has his hoodie pulled up (because of light rainfall)...

black kid has stuff in his hands (because he just came back from the convenience store)...

because of black kid's appearance, loser assumes black kid is up to no good and decides to challenge him (which will mebbe make him a hero and gain him respect that he's never had)...

black kid, walking in the rain, is annoyed at being challenged and becomes belligerent, particularly since he assumes the whole thing is because he's black...

the loser becomes frightened at the black kid's belligerence, particularly since he thinks the black kid has some sort of weapon in his hands...

there is a tussle, during which the loser pulls out his gun and shoots the black kid...

tragic outcome...

question remains: what to do with the loser...? can't see murder charges in this situation... but because of the loser's faulty decisions, it would seem that manslaughter charges are warranted...


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> *Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place,*  and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Hispanic can't be racist?
> 
> Regarding where the shooting took place, several of the 911 callers describe that this happened behind their homes, and then this from the link posted above:
> 
> *Martin had been staying at his father's girlfriend's house* during the night of the NBA all-star game Feb. 26.
> 
> 
> 
> On his way back into the gated suburban Orlando community after stepping out, Martin, wearing a hood, was spotted by Zimmerman.
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded  sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents  at a town hall.
> 
> 
> 
> A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.
> But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red  sweatshirt and *pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses,  about 70 yards from where the teen was going.*
Click to expand...


He was guilty of walking while black, apparently.


----------



## Dante

bayoubill said:


> what I can easily imagine what actually happened:
> 
> black kid, returning from convenience store to his father's house, attracts the attention of an overzealous loser who's taken it upon himself to patrol the neighborhood...
> 
> even though his father lives there, the black kid is unfamiliar to the loser because he's not a resident...
> 
> black kid has his hoodie pulled up (because of light rainfall)...
> 
> black kid has stuff in his hands (because he just came back from the convenience store)...
> 
> because of black kid's appearance, loser assumes black kid is up to no good and decides to challenge him (which will mebbe make him a hero and gain him respect that he's never had)...
> 
> black kid, walking in the rain, is annoyed at being challenged and becomes belligerent, particularly since he assumes the whole thing is because he's black...
> 
> the loser becomes frightened at being challenged, particularly since he thinks the black kid has some sort of weapon in his hands...
> 
> there is a tussle, during which the loser pulls out his gun and shoots the black kid...
> 
> tragic outcome...
> 
> question remains: what to do with the loser...? can't see murder charges in this situation... but because of the loser's faulty decisions, manslaughter charges are warranted...



George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

except your imagination sucks.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> He was guilty of walking while black, apparently.



come on Ravi  sounds like you like false media reports. 

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.


----------



## bayoubill

Dante said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> what I can easily imagine what actually happened:
> 
> black kid, returning from convenience store to his father's house, attracts the attention of an overzealous loser who's taken it upon himself to patrol the neighborhood...
> 
> even though his father lives there, the black kid is unfamiliar to the loser because he's not a resident...
> 
> black kid has his hoodie pulled up (because of light rainfall)...
> 
> black kid has stuff in his hands (because he just came back from the convenience store)...
> 
> because of black kid's appearance, loser assumes black kid is up to no good and decides to challenge him (which will mebbe make him a hero and gain him respect that he's never had)...
> 
> black kid, walking in the rain, is annoyed at being challenged and becomes belligerent, particularly since he assumes the whole thing is because he's black...
> 
> the loser becomes frightened at being challenged, particularly since he thinks the black kid has some sort of weapon in his hands...
> 
> there is a tussle, during which the loser pulls out his gun and shoots the black kid...
> 
> tragic outcome...
> 
> question remains: what to do with the loser...? can't see murder charges in this situation... but because of the loser's faulty decisions, manslaughter charges are warranted...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> except your imagination sucks.
Click to expand...


how so...? be specific...


----------



## Dante

bayoubill said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> what I can easily imagine what actually happened:
> 
> black kid, returning from convenience store to his father's house, attracts the attention of an overzealous loser who's taken it upon himself to patrol the neighborhood...
> 
> even though his father lives there, the black kid is unfamiliar to the loser because he's not a resident...
> 
> black kid has his hoodie pulled up (because of light rainfall)...
> 
> black kid has stuff in his hands (because he just came back from the convenience store)...
> 
> because of black kid's appearance, loser assumes black kid is up to no good and decides to challenge him (which will mebbe make him a hero and gain him respect that he's never had)...
> 
> black kid, walking in the rain, is annoyed at being challenged and becomes belligerent, particularly since he assumes the whole thing is because he's black...
> 
> the loser becomes frightened at being challenged, particularly since he thinks the black kid has some sort of weapon in his hands...
> 
> there is a tussle, during which the loser pulls out his gun and shoots the black kid...
> 
> tragic outcome...
> 
> question remains: what to do with the loser...? can't see murder charges in this situation... but because of the loser's faulty decisions, manslaughter charges are warranted...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> except your imagination sucks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how so...? be specific...
Click to expand...


Hispanic man who patrols his multicultural neighborhood is not a loser.

Hispanic man was seen on ground after shooting.

Hispanic man has a history of calling police.

Maybe black teen had issues.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was guilty of walking while black, apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> come on Ravi  sounds like you like false media reports.
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."
> 
> Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.
Click to expand...

He had no reason to follow the kid. The kid wasn't doing anything wrong.

Vigilantes are not good for society.


----------



## Dante

Why do most progressives feel the need to side against self defense with weapons?


----------



## bayoubill

Dante said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> except your imagination sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how so...? be specific...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hispanic man who patrols his multicultural neighborhood is not a loser.
> 
> Hispanic man was seen on ground after shooting.
> 
> Hispanic man has a history of calling police.
> 
> Maybe black teen had issues.
Click to expand...


'k... granted, I prolly shouldn'ta called the guy a loser (even if he was)...

otherwise, do you have a problem with the way I described things...?


----------



## The Gadfly

My, my, look at all the would-be "prosecutors" all over this thread assuming facts not in evidence. Here's what we actually know.  Zimmerman, a "neighborhood watch volunteer with a CWP, saw Martin, and thought he "looked suspicious" .Zimmerman called 911 gave a description of the subject, who he then followed. At some point Zimmerman dismounted the vehicle. At some point, according to at least one witness a physical altercation of some sort occurred between Zimmerman and Martin. There is another 911 call, during which, one or the other is heard yelling, followed by the sound of a single gunshot.

Now, here's what we DON'T know. We don't know that Zimmerman was "stalking" Martin-following a person one believes is acting suspiciously, and reporting his activities and location to police is neither "stalking" nor is it a crime. We do not know precisely what led to the physical altercation that occurred, nor do we know which of the two initiated that altercation. We don't know what words were exchanged between the two. Was there any warning or threat of deadly force; if so, by which party? We don't know. Were there kicks or punches, and who delivered those-Martin, Zimmerman, or both? We don't know. What other witness or physical evidence might the police have, that would indicate Zimmerman could have or even likely did, fire in self-defense? Again, we don't know. It is not that unusual for police to not arrest a subject in a claimed self-defense shooting, PROVIDED that most of whatever evidence they have suggests that subject did act in self-defense, according to the law applicable in that jurisdiction. The Local police have NOT released their evidence, which is presumably in possession of the State Attorney's office for further investigation; apparently, there's enough that it will take WEEKS to carefully investigate ALL of it. 

Note again that the FL law differs from the common law self-defense statutes still in wide use in that it specifically DOES NOT include a "duty to retreat", even if it is reasonably possible to do so.Also note that while "reasonable fear of death" is ONE component of self-defense statutes, it is not the ONLY one; "reasonable fear of serious bodily injury" is also acceptable in most jurisdictions, including FL. Not also that the picture of Zimmerman shown here and elsewhere is an old mug shot from a misdemeanor arrest years ago, NOT a current picture.

I would suggest, that we, the media, and the local community allow the investigation to take its course, and determine IF any charges, and/or any arrest pending charges, are warranted, before presuming otherwise. I would also suggest, that we, the media, and the local community, refrain from attempting to try the case on this board, in the press, or in the streets. Any trial that is needed should and must take place in a court of law, with a due regard for facts, and rules of criminal procedure, NOT in the court of public opinion. Remember the Duke lacrosse case? I seem to recall that "everyone" was "certain" the accused in that instance were guilty-only it turned out, they actually weren't. We have a judicial process for a reason, people, and while it sometimes does not move fast enough to suit some of us, or conclude what we would wish it to conclude, it usually gets it right, in the end (which is more than I can say for the track record of the sort of lynch mob mentality some of you have displayed here).


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> He had no reason to follow the kid. The kid wasn't doing anything wrong.
> 
> Vigilantes are not good for society.



I've always watched strangers near my house. I've always looked out for neighbor's property. Nothing wrong with following a person who doesn't fit in or looks like they are new to neighborhood.

I would ask if they are lost and need help. When they get tense or smart, I know they are douchebaghs.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Why do most progressives feel the need to side against self defense with weapons?



I don't know, since you're the progressive.

The kid didn't have a weapon.

This isn't really much different than that dumb blond wearing twinkly lights to the airport in bean town. Except someone ended up dead.


----------



## koshergrl

I don't know why people waste their time second guessing these incidents before anyone even has a clue about what happened.


----------



## bayoubill

Dante said:


> Why do most progressives feel the need to side against self defense with weapons?



'cause they've yet to come up against a situation where they wished they had a gun to defend themselves...


or, if they've got piles of money, they surround themselves with bodyguards who carry guns...


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> The facts are yet to be determined; that may explain why there was no "quick arrest".





> A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
> 
> F.S. §776.013(3)


As you can see the law was very carefully crafted to allow an expansive interpretation. The facts would need to place Zimmerman outside of the context of the law, including his reasonable belief that deadly force was necessary.


----------



## Dante

bayoubill said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> how so...? be specific...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanic man who patrols his multicultural neighborhood is not a loser.
> 
> Hispanic man was seen on ground after shooting.
> 
> Hispanic man has a history of calling police.
> 
> Maybe black teen had issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'k... granted, I prolly shouldn'ta called the guy a loser (even if he was)...
> 
> otherwise, do you have a problem with the way I described things...?
Click to expand...


only that some of your assumptions are too stereotypical .. man assumes black kid has a weapon? why? 

most street confrontations and fights start out  without people misreading each other, but many start because some people think they can do whatever they want. 

there is no reason to believe the Hispanic guy wanted to challenge the young guy in a physical confrontation. Odds on favorite is black kid got physical first. Why? who knows.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny thing... I've heard similar stuff said about folks in NYC...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You could have "heard" that..but New York was one of the thirteen Colonies. Hamilton is buried in NYC. And Washington often bent an arm or two at the Fraunces Tavern..as did the Sons of Liberty..as did I.
> 
> Fraunces Tavern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Texas? Johnny come latelys that joined the treasonous bastards during the civil war.
> 
> What a stinkhole.
Click to expand...



If you feel compelled to denigrate _any_ state in the Union you can just get the fuck out of my country right now.


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny thing... I've heard similar stuff said about folks in NYC...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could have "heard" that..but New York was one of the thirteen Colonies. Hamilton is buried in NYC. And Washington often bent an arm or two at the Fraunces Tavern..as did the Sons of Liberty..as did I.
> 
> Fraunces Tavern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Texas? Johnny come latelys that joined the treasonous bastards during the civil war.
> 
> What a stinkhole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel compelled to denigrate _any_ state in the Union you can just get the fuck out of my country right now.
Click to expand...


Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.


----------



## bayoubill

Dante said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanic man who patrols his multicultural neighborhood is not a loser.
> 
> Hispanic man was seen on ground after shooting.
> 
> Hispanic man has a history of calling police.
> 
> Maybe black teen had issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'k... granted, I prolly shouldn'ta called the guy a loser (even if he was)...
> 
> otherwise, do you have a problem with the way I described things...?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> only that some of your assumptions are too stereotypical .. man assumes black kid has a weapon? why?
> 
> most street confrontations and fights start out  without people misreading each other, but many start because some people think they can do whatever they want.
> 
> there is no reason to believe the Hispanic guy wanted to challenge the young guy in a physical confrontation. Odds on favorite is black kid got physical first. Why? who knows.
Click to expand...


ummm... call me crazy, but I think you and I are on the same side of this argument...


----------



## Unkotare

Dante said:


> there is no reason to believe the Hispanic guy wanted to challenge the young guy in a physical confrontation. Odds on favorite is black kid got physical first. Why? who knows.




Upon what do you base that broad assumption?


----------



## Ravi

koshergrl said:


> I don't know why people waste their time second guessing these incidents before anyone even has a clue about what happened.


Cases where unarmed children are shot should always be scrutinized.

Odd that you of all people can't see that.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do most progressives feel the need to side against self defense with weapons?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know, since you're the progressive.
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon.
> 
> This isn't really much different than that dumb blond wearing twinkly lights to the airport in bean town. Except someone ended up dead.
Click to expand...


never been a progressive.

If kid struggled to take Hispanic man's gun, he had a potential weapon.

Maybe the kid started a fight that escalated to where neither person would've liked? Why did the Hispanic man start the fight? 

Being followed isn't cause for the a physical confrontation.

Black teens are not innocent simply because they are black.

The gated community was very mixed. I'd bet more mixed than where you live. .. typical progressive nitwit


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why people waste their time second guessing these incidents before anyone even has a clue about what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Cases where unarmed children are shot should always be scrutinized.
> 
> Odd that you of all people can't see that.
Click to expand...


children? teens as old as that one have murdered many people. nothing innocent about being a teen


----------



## Sunshine

Dante said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanic man who patrols his multicultural neighborhood is not a loser.
> 
> Hispanic man was seen on ground after shooting.
> 
> Hispanic man has a history of calling police.
> 
> Maybe black teen had issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'k... granted, I prolly shouldn'ta called the guy a loser (even if he was)...
> 
> otherwise, do you have a problem with the way I described things...?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> only that some of your assumptions are too stereotypical .. man assumes black kid has a weapon? why?
> 
> most street confrontations and fights start out  without people misreading each other, but many start because some people think they can do whatever they want.
> 
> there is no reason to believe the Hispanic guy wanted to challenge the young guy in a physical confrontation. Odds on favorite is black kid got physical first. Why? who knows.
Click to expand...


And of course the initial assumption was 'black kid gets shot, white racist did it' when in fact the shooter was not white but Hispanic.  Blamed on whites just because of the color of their skin.


----------



## Dante

bayoubill said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do most progressives feel the need to side against self defense with weapons?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'cause they've yet to come up against a situation where they wished they had a gun to defend themselves..
Click to expand...


I've actually fought with a man who pulled a gun on me. Not very smart, but instincts take over. I fought a few times with people who had weapons, but after a gun is pulled, things get spooky.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do most progressives feel the need to side against self defense with weapons?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know, since you're the progressive.
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon.
> 
> This isn't really much different than that dumb blond wearing twinkly lights to the airport in bean town. Except someone ended up dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being followed isn't cause for the a physical confrontation.
Click to expand...

It is in Florida.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could have "heard" that..but New York was one of the thirteen Colonies. Hamilton is buried in NYC. And Washington often bent an arm or two at the Fraunces Tavern..as did the Sons of Liberty..as did I.
> 
> Fraunces Tavern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Texas? Johnny come latelys that joined the treasonous bastards during the civil war.
> 
> What a stinkhole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel compelled to denigrate _any_ state in the Union you can just get the fuck out of my country right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.
Click to expand...



Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why people waste their time second guessing these incidents before anyone even has a clue about what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Cases where unarmed children are shot should always be scrutinized.
> 
> Odd that you of all people can't see that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> children? teens as old as that one have murdered many people. nothing innocent about being a teen
Click to expand...


Well, isn't that a GREAT point? Let/s just have free reign to shoot kids because some kids have killed people.


bwahahahahaha your mind has atrophied.


----------



## Dante

Sunshine said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'k... granted, I prolly shouldn'ta called the guy a loser (even if he was)...
> 
> otherwise, do you have a problem with the way I described things...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only that some of your assumptions are too stereotypical .. man assumes black kid has a weapon? why?
> 
> most street confrontations and fights start out  without people misreading each other, but many start because some people think they can do whatever they want.
> 
> there is no reason to believe the Hispanic guy wanted to challenge the young guy in a physical confrontation. Odds on favorite is black kid got physical first. Why? who knows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And of course the initial assumption was 'black kid gets shot, white racist did it' when in fact the shooter was not white but Hispanic.  Blamed on whites just because of the color of their skin.
Click to expand...


black teens murder more black people than white racists do. black teens murder more people than Hispanic males who participate in neighborhood watch's do

fastest horse says, kid started something that got out of hand


----------



## Crackerjack

theHawk said:


> I'm not a Texan, asshole.


You're just a regular asshole.


----------



## Sallow

Turns out the new conservative Hero..and murderer..has an arrest record.



> Though there are no enrollment records suggesting Zimmerman has attended a law-enforcement academy, he carried a concealed weapon and expressed his desire to wear a badge. He's currently enrolled in a general education program at Valencia Community College.
> 
> "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one," Zimmerman wrote in a 2008 application to theSeminole County Sheriff's Officecitizen's law enforcement academy, a class that teaches citizens about policing and how the Sheriff's Office works.
> 
> Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 at a bar near the University of Central Florida on charges of assault on a law-enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence. Both charges were ultimately dropped, according to court records.
> Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Page 2 - dailyamerican.com



Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.

Man.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cases where unarmed children are shot should always be scrutinized.
> 
> Odd that you of all people can't see that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> children? teens as old as that one have murdered many people. nothing innocent about being a teen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, isn't that a GREAT point? Let/s just have free reign to shoot kids because some kids have killed people.
> 
> 
> bwahahahahaha your mind has atrophied.
Click to expand...


lunatic, who advocates shooting teens? Free reign? If then kid threatened the man's life after a struggle ensued, then it was all a horrible event gone wild. 

If you hate the fact that some people carry weapons, says so, but please Ravi, stop this pathetic attempt to represent teens everywhere. You're a terrible advocate.


----------



## Sunshine

Sallow said:


> Turns out the new conservative Hero..and murderer..has an arrest record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though there are no enrollment records suggesting Zimmerman has attended a law-enforcement academy, he carried a concealed weapon and expressed his desire to wear a badge. He's currently enrolled in a general education program at Valencia Community College.
> 
> "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one," Zimmerman wrote in a 2008 application to theSeminole County Sheriff's Officecitizen's law enforcement academy, a class that teaches citizens about policing and how the Sheriff's Office works.
> 
> Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 at a bar near the University of Central Florida on charges of assault on a law-enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence.* Both charges were ultimately dropped, according to court records*.
> Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Page 2 - dailyamerican.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.
> 
> Man.
Click to expand...


How does that equal a 'record.'  No charges.  No record.


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel compelled to denigrate _any_ state in the Union you can just get the fuck out of my country right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.
Click to expand...


Yeah..I am a tough guy. Any time you wanna check that theory out..you perverted shit lover..you come on down. You like to watch little asian girls take shits, don't ya? Ya fucking faggot.

Go fuck yourself..sicko.


----------



## Ravi

Sallow said:


> Turns out the new conservative Hero..and murderer..has an arrest record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though there are no enrollment records suggesting Zimmerman has attended a law-enforcement academy, he carried a concealed weapon and expressed his desire to wear a badge. He's currently enrolled in a general education program at Valencia Community College.
> 
> "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one," Zimmerman wrote in a 2008 application to theSeminole County Sheriff's Officecitizen's law enforcement academy, a class that teaches citizens about policing and how the Sheriff's Office works.
> 
> Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 at a bar near the University of Central Florida on charges of assault on a law-enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence. Both charges were ultimately dropped, according to court records.
> Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Page 2 - dailyamerican.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.
> 
> Man.
Click to expand...


I'm surprised. Not.


----------



## Sallow

Sunshine said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turns out the new conservative Hero..and murderer..has an arrest record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though there are no enrollment records suggesting Zimmerman has attended a law-enforcement academy, he carried a concealed weapon and expressed his desire to wear a badge. He's currently enrolled in a general education program at Valencia Community College.
> 
> "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one," Zimmerman wrote in a 2008 application to theSeminole County Sheriff's Officecitizen's law enforcement academy, a class that teaches citizens about policing and how the Sheriff's Office works.
> 
> Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 at a bar near the University of Central Florida on charges of assault on a law-enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence.* Both charges were ultimately dropped, according to court records*.
> Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Page 2 - dailyamerican.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.
> 
> Man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does that equal a 'record.'  No charges.  No record.
Click to expand...


The cops said he was "squeaky clean". He wasn't. In ANY CASE HE MURDERED AN UNARMED KID WHO DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

At the very least..Zimmerman should be cooling his heels in the pokey.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> children? teens as old as that one have murdered many people. nothing innocent about being a teen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, isn't that a GREAT point? Let/s just have free reign to shoot kids because some kids have killed people.
> 
> 
> bwahahahahaha your mind has atrophied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lunatic, who advocates shooting teens? Free reign? If then kid threatened the man's life after a struggle ensued, then it was all a horrible event gone wild.
> 
> If you hate the fact that some people carry weapons, says so, but please Ravi, stop this pathetic attempt to represent teens everywhere. You're a terrible advocate.
Click to expand...

I sometimes carry a weapon. But I'd never use it on someone that was simply walking down the street.

You would? How many have you shot?


----------



## Crackerjack

koshergrl said:


> I don't know why people waste their time second guessing these incidents before anyone even has a clue about what happened.


What part of this message board is *not* a waste of time?

It's not like we're curing cancer here.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Yeah..I am a tough guy.




LOL! Yeah - Swallow - I really, really believe you.  I'll bet you're the toughest swallower behind your keyboard right now.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know, since you're the progressive.
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon.
> 
> This isn't really much different than that dumb blond wearing twinkly lights to the airport in bean town. Except someone ended up dead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being followed isn't cause for the a physical confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is in Florida.
Click to expand...


Come on Ravi. Last time you left the triple wide and waddled on down to your mailbox to get your food stamps, no one was following you. They were just enjoying the Whale Watch.

I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city. Please, stfu about things you only imagine


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.
> 
> Man.



If he shot him in self defense who gives a fuck if he's a wannabee?


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, isn't that a GREAT point? Let/s just have free reign to shoot kids because some kids have killed people.
> 
> 
> bwahahahahaha your mind has atrophied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lunatic, who advocates shooting teens? Free reign? If then kid threatened the man's life after a struggle ensued, then it was all a horrible event gone wild.
> 
> If you hate the fact that some people carry weapons, says so, but please Ravi, stop this pathetic attempt to represent teens everywhere. You're a terrible advocate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I sometimes carry a weapon. But I'd never use it on someone that was simply walking down the street.
> 
> You would? How many have you shot?
Click to expand...


Mace?   get a stun gun so just in case it gets taken away from you ...


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being followed isn't cause for the a physical confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> It is in Florida.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on Ravi. Last time you left the triple wide and waddled on down to your mailbox to get your food stamps, no one was following you. They were just enjoying the Whale Watch.
> 
> I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city. Please, stfu about things you only imagine
Click to expand...


You don't live in Florida so there really isn't a reason for you to be commenting on the stupid vigilante laws we have.


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Yeah..I am a tough guy.


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> HE MURDERED AN UNARMED KID WHO DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.



and you know this how?


----------



## Peach

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The facts are yet to be determined; that may explain why there was no "quick arrest".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
> 
> F.S. §776.013(3)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As you can see the law was very carefully crafted to allow an expansive interpretation. The facts would need to place Zimmerman outside of the context of the law, including his reasonable belief that deadly force was necessary.
Click to expand...



Thus, the statement from the SA's office it could take weeks to go over evidence, and have the audio tapes reviewed by experts. Plus, there APPEAR to be conflicting witness reports, etc. (Though *I *self defense as weak, the killer is reported to be relying on that avenue. PORTIONS of 9/11 calls recorded and released further muddy the situation. )


----------



## Immanuel

ABS,

This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.

How do you know the the boy was innocent?

That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial before we convict him.

Immie


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is in Florida.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Ravi. Last time you left the triple wide and waddled on down to your mailbox to get your food stamps, no one was following you. They were just enjoying the Whale Watch.
> 
> I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city. Please, stfu about things you only imagine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't live in Florida so there really isn't a reason for you to be commenting on the stupid vigilante laws we have.
Click to expand...


OMFG!!!!!  mani????????????????????  you won't fuckin' believe this one. from the message board Queen of commenting on laws not in her state,.


----------



## Peach

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is in Florida.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Ravi. Last time you left the triple wide and waddled on down to your mailbox to get your food stamps, no one was following you. They were just enjoying the Whale Watch.
> 
> I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city. Please, stfu about things you only imagine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't live in Florida so there really isn't a reason for you to be commenting on the stupid vigilante laws we have.
Click to expand...


Stupid? Well, perhaps "poorly drafted."


----------



## Dante

I need the absolute addy on this one





Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Ravi. Last time you left the triple wide and waddled on down to your mailbox to get your food stamps, no one was following you. They were just enjoying the Whale Watch.
> 
> I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city. Please, stfu about things you only imagine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't live in Florida so there really isn't a reason for you to be commenting on the stupid vigilante laws we have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMFG!!!!!  mani????????????????????  you won't fuckin' believe this one. from the message board Queen of commenting on laws not in her state,.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ravi

Immanuel said:


> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial before we convict him.
> 
> Immie


The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Come on Ravi. Last time you left the triple wide and waddled on down to your mailbox to get your food stamps, no one was following you. They were just enjoying the Whale Watch.
> 
> I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city. Please, stfu about things you only imagine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't live in Florida so there really isn't a reason for you to be commenting on the stupid vigilante laws we have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMFG!!!!!  mani????????????????????  you won't fuckin' believe this one. from the message board Queen of commenting on laws not in her state,.
Click to expand...



Dante lives in the ghetto and that somehow makes him believe that a black kid walking around in a gated community deserves to be shot.


----------



## skipper

Immanuel said:


> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" *we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial *before we convict him.
> 
> Immie



That's what they would like to see happen.


----------



## Dante

Immanuel said:


> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial before we convict him.
> 
> Immie



I agree with most, but only 'innocent until proven guilty' in a court of law.

I don't believe the scenario laid out by the teen's family. I don't know the Hispanic man's whole story, but I would bet Ravi's life that teh true story lies somewhere in between with the Hispanic man's story containing most of the truth


----------



## Immanuel

Ravi said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial before we convict him.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?
Click to expand...


Sure he should.

Are you sure he didn't attack the man that was calling the police on him? Following him?  Harassing him?

Immie


----------



## Unkotare

Dante said:


> I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city.






Why?


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't live in Florida so there really isn't a reason for you to be commenting on the stupid vigilante laws we have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMFG!!!!!  mani????????????????????  you won't fuckin' believe this one. from the message board Queen of commenting on laws not in her state,.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Dante lives in the ghetto and that somehow makes him believe that a black kid walking around in a gated community deserves to be shot.
Click to expand...

okie dokie Ravi, Dante believes a teen deserves to be shot because he's black.

you can play that game with the losers here, but Dante knows you. Dante knows how you play. Dante remembers you posting about your family and your neighborhood. 

If you want to play a game of lies like you used to, game's on.


 make my day


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial before we convict him.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with most, but only 'innocent until proven guilty' in a court of law.
> 
> I don't believe the scenario laid out by the teen's family. I don't know the Hispanic man's whole story, but I would bet Ravi's life that teh true story lies somewhere in between with the Hispanic man's story containing most of the truth
Click to expand...



The SA will so determine. CURRENT reports are the killer followed the deceased. We will know what the prosecution determines a few WEEKS.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> Thus, the statement from the SA's office it could take weeks to go over evidence, and have the audio tapes reviewed by experts. Plus, there APPEAR to be conflicting witness reports, etc. (Though I self defense as weak, the killer is reported to be relying on that avenue. PORTIONS of 9/11 calls recorded and released further muddy the situation. )



But none of that would necessarily mitigate what Zimmerman believed to be a reasonable use of force. The evidence would need to establish that Zimmerman in no way felt threatened, or that he was acting unilaterally, or otherwise harbored some sort of animus toward the teen other than his effort to self-defend.


----------



## Immanuel

skipper said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" *we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial *before we convict him.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what they would like to see happen.
Click to expand...


At the very least that is what he deserves.

This was a tragedy.  Mr. Zimmerman deserves the right to have this investigated and if there is evidence that he may have killed an innocent kid then he deserves a fair trial.  His right to a fair trial is being hampered by Sharpton's presence.

And another thing, the parents of the kid have a right to know what happened as well.  I can't imagine being in their shoes.  My heart goes out to them.

Immie


----------



## Ravi

Immanuel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial before we convict him.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure he should.
> 
> Are you sure he didn't attack the man that was calling the police on him? Following him?  Harassing him?
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...

The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.

My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMFG!!!!!  mani????????????????????  you won't fuckin' believe this one. from the message board Queen of commenting on laws not in her state,.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante lives in the ghetto and that somehow makes him believe that a black kid walking around in a gated community deserves to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> okie dokie Ravi, Dante believes a teen deserves to be shot because he's black.
> 
> you can play that game with the losers here, but Dante knows you. Dante knows how you play. Dante remembers you posting about your family and your neighborhood.
> 
> If you want to play a game of lies like you used to, game's on.
> 
> 
> make my day
Click to expand...


No doubt you have me confused with someone else. But nice diversion.


----------



## Dante

Unkotare said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> I live in a very tough ghetto part of my city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...


it's how things worked out. I rent. I am used to going anywhere. I am aware of my surroundings and do not feel threatened here. I have been threatened by a gang affiliated group, but that was taken care of. and I am not opposed to carrying a weapon if needed and using it in a deadly confrontation. 

most all urban areas in CA I've been too are ghetto or next to a ghetto.


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial before we convict him.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with most, but only 'innocent until proven guilty' in a court of law.
> 
> I don't believe the scenario laid out by the teen's family. I don't know the Hispanic man's whole story, but I would bet Ravi's life that teh true story lies somewhere in between with the Hispanic man's story containing most of the truth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The SA will so determine. CURRENT reports are the killer followed the deceased. We will know what the prosecution determines a few WEEKS.
Click to expand...


followed does not = harassed, as most imply. nothing wrong with being followed. that in itself does not constitute a threat


----------



## Dot Com

Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest - CNN.com


----------



## Immanuel

Ravi said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure he should.
> 
> Are you sure he didn't attack the man that was calling the police on him? Following him?  Harassing him?
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
Click to expand...


Ditto.

But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.

Immie


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante lives in the ghetto and that somehow makes him believe that a black kid walking around in a gated community deserves to be shot.
> 
> 
> 
> okie dokie Ravi, Dante believes a teen deserves to be shot because he's black.
> 
> you can play that game with the losers here, but Dante knows you. Dante knows how you play. Dante remembers you posting about your family and your neighborhood.
> 
> If you want to play a game of lies like you used to, game's on.
> 
> 
> make my day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No doubt you have me confused with someone else. But nice diversion.
Click to expand...

Hey speck, we go all the way back to 2004, when all you did was comment on laws in MA while posting from FLA. you have no friends in FLA?. So stfu


----------



## Amelia

skipper said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABS,
> 
> This happened within a hundred miles of me and has been covered on the news quite a bit.  I only have one question for you.
> 
> How do you know the the boy was innocent?
> 
> That information has not yet come out.  Only the parents, Al Sharpton and the local black community are making that claim and none of them were present when this tragic shooting took place.  I think in this country where we are supposed to live by the rule, "innocent until proven guilty" *we ought to at least give the shooter a fair trial *before we convict him.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what they would like to see happen.
Click to expand...



Exactly.

That "he has a squeaky clean record and claims self-defense so we have no reason to charge him" initial information sucked.

We want fair.  On all sides.


----------



## Ravi

Immanuel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure he should.
> 
> Are you sure he didn't attack the man that was calling the police on him? Following him?  Harassing him?
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...

Of course he does. At this point it sounds as if he won't be put on trial....and that is just wrong, imo.

It needs to be taken into account whether or not he gave the kid a fair trial.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure he should.
> 
> Are you sure he didn't attack the man that was calling the police on him? Following him?  Harassing him?
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
Click to expand...


What we don't know is more important.

No one confronted a kid and killed him in the way you put it. More happened.  get a grip Mrs. Kravitz.

you've been mentioning these supposed kids ( in 2004) of yours for so long, they must be in middle age by now.

you are a fraud


----------



## Immanuel

Ravi said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course he does. At this point it sounds as if he won't be put on trial....and that is just wrong, imo.
> 
> It needs to be taken into account whether or not he gave the kid a fair trial.
Click to expand...


That doesn't even make sense, Ravi.

Even for you!

Immie


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure he should.
> 
> Are you sure he didn't attack the man that was calling the police on him? Following him?  Harassing him?
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What we don't know is more important.
> 
> No one confronted a kid and killed him in the way you put it. More happened.  get a grip Mrs. Kravitz.
> 
> you've been mentioning these supposed kids ( in 2004) of yours for so long, they must be in middle age by now.
> 
> you are a fraud
Click to expand...


LOL! You seem to suck at math, and that doesn't surprise me.

But keep on thinking the killing of children should be swept under the rug. I bet you'd feel differently if it were dogs, not that there's anything wrong with that.


----------



## Ravi

Immanuel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he does. At this point it sounds as if he won't be put on trial....and that is just wrong, imo.
> 
> It needs to be taken into account whether or not he gave the kid a fair trial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That doesn't even make sense, Ravi.
> 
> Even for you!
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


The kid didn't get a fair trial. A jury of one sentenced him to death.

Did I mention that I think vigilantes are bad for society?


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What we don't know is more important.
> 
> No one confronted a kid and killed him in the way you put it. More happened.  get a grip Mrs. Kravitz.
> 
> you've been mentioning these supposed kids ( in 2004) of yours for so long, they must be in middle age by now.
> 
> you are a fraud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL! You seem to suck at math, and that doesn't surprise me.
> 
> But keep on thinking the killing of children should be swept under the rug. I bet you'd feel differently if it were dogs, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Click to expand...


Ravi, defender of crotch droppings everywhere. 

Dogs? I put them to sleep at the slightest whim. I'm a prick, remember?


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> The kid didn't get a fair trial. A jury of one sentenced him to death.
> 
> Did I mention that I think vigilantes are bad for society?



except when the vigilantes are going after white people and Tea Party Lunatics. You just about backed people physically harming Bush admin persons.

Your craziness knows little bounds.

ltr


dD


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.



Assuming theres evidence he allegedly committed a crime to begin with. 

What was Zimmermans motive to kill this particular person? Did Zimmerman simply go out and kill the first black person he came across? 

If one is going to remove Zimmerman from the context of the Castle Doctrine statute, there needs to be evidence that there was intent on Zimmermans part to commit a crime.


----------



## Dante

Immanuel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he does. At this point it sounds as if he won't be put on trial....and that is just wrong, imo.
> 
> It needs to be taken into account whether or not he gave the kid a fair trial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That doesn't even make sense, Ravi.
> 
> Even for you!
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


Even for Ravi? Now that's something. Ravi has the deserved rep for being the most whack-a-doodle leftist on every message board I've been on.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't get a fair trial. A jury of one sentenced him to death.
> 
> Did I mention that I think vigilantes are bad for society?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> except when the vigilantes are going after white people and Tea Party Lunatics. You just about backed people physically harming Bush admin persons.
> 
> Your craziness knows little bounds.
> 
> ltr
> 
> 
> dD
Click to expand...


I guess if you have nothing else you can fall back on lies.


----------



## Immanuel

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming theres evidence he allegedly committed a crime to begin with.
> 
> What was Zimmermans motive to kill this particular person? Did Zimmerman simply go out and kill the first black person he came across?
> 
> If one is going to remove Zimmerman from the context of the Castle Doctrine statute, there needs to be evidence that there was intent on Zimmermans part to commit a crime.
Click to expand...


Well, if there is no evidence that he committed a crime then he will have ben exonerated even before the trial and no such trial will have been necessary.  Although, I suspect he will be better off if he quickly relocates to a new state.  While he lives where he does now, he will be constantly looking over his shoulder.

Immie


----------



## Salt Jones

Immanuel said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming theres evidence he allegedly committed a crime to begin with.
> 
> What was Zimmermans motive to kill this particular person? Did Zimmerman simply go out and kill the first black person he came across?
> 
> If one is going to remove Zimmerman from the context of the Castle Doctrine statute, there needs to be evidence that there was intent on Zimmermans part to commit a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if there is no evidence that he committed a crime then he will have ben exonerated even before the trial and no such trial will have been necessary.  Although, I suspect he will be better off if he quickly relocates to a new state.  While he lives where he does now, he will be constantly looking over his shoulder.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


Yep, he may look threatening to someone else and they may have to stand their ground.


----------



## Sunshine

Dante said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he does. At this point it sounds as if he won't be put on trial....and that is just wrong, imo.
> 
> It needs to be taken into account whether or not he gave the kid a fair trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't even make sense, Ravi.
> 
> Even for you!
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even for Ravi? Now that's something. Ravi has the deserved rep for being the most whack-a-doodle leftist on every message board I've been on.
Click to expand...


She hates 'hatters.'  Looks like she likes 'hatters' as many hats as she uses in here avvy.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't get a fair trial. A jury of one sentenced him to death.
> 
> Did I mention that I think vigilantes are bad for society?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> except when the vigilantes are going after white people and Tea Party Lunatics. You just about backed people physically harming Bush admin persons.
> 
> Your craziness knows little bounds.
> 
> ltr
> 
> 
> dD
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess if you have nothing else you can fall back on lies.
Click to expand...


peace. It's been done before.


----------



## Peach

The Castle Doctrine when he saw a teenager outside his home? IF there is any evidence the victim came NEAR Zimmerman's home, it is absent. It appears ZIMMERMAN went outside against advice from the 911 call personnel. That is not meant to conclude the teenager, who was much smaller than the killer did not create a fear "of deadly force" of course; that would require the smaller male to be beating him senseless. And Zimmerman to be unable to shoot to wound. The only person accosted was the victim, THUS FAR.


----------



## Ravi

Salt Jones said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming theres evidence he allegedly committed a crime to begin with.
> 
> What was Zimmermans motive to kill this particular person? Did Zimmerman simply go out and kill the first black person he came across?
> 
> If one is going to remove Zimmerman from the context of the Castle Doctrine statute, there needs to be evidence that there was intent on Zimmermans part to commit a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if there is no evidence that he committed a crime then he will have ben exonerated even before the trial and no such trial will have been necessary.  Although, I suspect he will be better off if he quickly relocates to a new state.  While he lives where he does now, he will be constantly looking over his shoulder.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, he may look threatening to someone else and they may have to stand their ground.
Click to expand...


Good point. Sauce for the gander, and all.


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..I am a tough guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Yeah - Swallow - I really, really believe you.  I'll bet you're the toughest swallower behind your keyboard right now.
Click to expand...


Hows the shit videos working for you little girl? You like watch other chicks take shits?

That's pretty fucking strange..no?

In any case..faggot..no swallow for you.


----------



## Ravi

Peach said:


> The Castle Doctrine when he saw a teenager outside his home? IF there is any evidence the victim came NEAR Zimmerman's home, it is absent. It appears ZIMMERMAN went outside against advice from the 911 call personnel. That is not meant to conclude the teenager, who was much smaller than the killer did not create a fear "of deadly force" of course; that would require the smaller male to be beating him senseless. And Zimmerman to be unable to shoot to wound. The only person accosted was the victim, THUS FAR.



In Florida, the castle doctrine is moot. You only need to feel threatened. Not sure how Zimmerman felt threatened by a kid walking around, but that will probably be good enough for Florida courts.

I think one of these days someone will feel threatened by the IRS collecting taxes and that will also be okay in Florida.


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..I am a tough guy.
Click to expand...


Well Dante..ol' bean. I will be in california around july 2nd of this year for a family wedding.

Maybe we can meet up for a few beers..or something.


----------



## Two Thumbs

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...


Why the assumption of innocence?

fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.

and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.


but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.


----------



## Sallow

Two Thumbs said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
Click to expand...


They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing. Who had no record. They also had a tape of Zimmerman saying he was following the innocent kid. And..it seems Zimmerman, who was armed, confronted a kid, who was unarmed and who had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS..then SHOT HIM.

Why he isn't in jail..is beyond any sort of logic at all.


----------



## Peach

Sallow said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing. Who had no record. They also had a tape of Zimmerman saying he was following the innocent kid. And..it seems Zimmerman, who was armed, confronted a kid, who was unarmed and who had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS..then SHOT HIM.
> 
> Why he isn't in jail..is beyond any sort of logic at all.
Click to expand...


 Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..I am a tough guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Dante..ol' bean. I will be in california around july 2nd of this year for a family wedding.
> 
> Maybe we can meet up for a few beers..or something.
Click to expand...


I have always been up with meeting message board denizens. I've never been one to hide. I would love to share a brew with you or anyone else who will step out fro behind the curtain.



I've sat outside with a sign in one city after posting where I'd be. People are funny. I've been stalked by crazies, one even came by where I was working.  but most message board denizens are ok.

you? you ok? or a tough guy?


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..I am a tough guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Yeah - Swallow - I really, really believe you.  I'll bet you're the toughest swallower behind your keyboard right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hows the shit videos working for you little girl? You like watch other chicks take shits?
> 
> That's pretty fucking strange..no?
> 
> In any case..faggot..no swallow for you.
Click to expand...



You can't make it through a single post without bringing up your deviant interests can you, Swallow? Maybe an occupational hazard, SWALLOW?


You're still a tough-guy, right? Just checking, SWALLOW.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sallow said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing. Who had no record. They also had a tape of Zimmerman saying he was following the innocent kid. And..it seems Zimmerman, who was armed, confronted a kid, who was unarmed and who had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS..then SHOT HIM.
> 
> Why he isn't in jail..is beyond any sort of logic at all.
Click to expand...


all assumptions


so where did he get the bloody nose?

from the shock wave from shooting?



Another "the police acted stoopudly" moment.

sigh

a tragedy occurred so someone has to pay since the black kid must be innocent cuz us evul white people are out to git darky.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..I am a tough guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Dante..ol' bean. I will be in california around july 2nd of this year for a family wedding.
> 
> Maybe we can meet up for a few beers..or something.
Click to expand...



Did you put on your Hulk Hogan tear-away tank top before posting that, tough guy?


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing.
Click to expand...


don't know that. no evidence yet to say young man did nothing


----------



## bodecea

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel compelled to denigrate _any_ state in the Union you can just get the fuck out of my country right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.
Click to expand...


Texas is not wanting to be a part of the Union....for the second time.


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Yeah - Swallow - I really, really believe you.  I'll bet you're the toughest swallower behind your keyboard right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hows the shit videos working for you little girl? You like watch other chicks take shits?
> 
> That's pretty fucking strange..no?
> 
> In any case..faggot..no swallow for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You can't make it through a single post without bringing up your deviant interests can you, Swallow? Maybe an occupational hazard, SWALLOW?
> 
> 
> You're still a tough-guy, right? Just checking, SWALLOW.
Click to expand...


"My" deviant interests?

Another poster here found a disgusting website you put up with asian girls shitting.

What the fuck is wrong with you man? Really?

It's disgusting.

How you still post here is beyond me.


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing. Who had no record. They also had a tape of Zimmerman saying he was following the innocent kid. And..it seems Zimmerman, who was armed, confronted a kid, who was unarmed and who had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS..then SHOT HIM.
> 
> Why he isn't in jail..is beyond any sort of logic at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming


----------



## Two Thumbs

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> don't know that. no evidence yet to say young man did nothing
Click to expand...


the kid is innocent until proven

but

since the cops walked away, Zimmerman is not guilty either.


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> don't know that. no evidence yet to say young man did nothing
Click to expand...


Well..they kept the body for three days without informing the parents. How long they keep Zimmerman?

Oh yeah..he was released.


----------



## Dante

Two Thumbs said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't know that. no evidence yet to say young man did nothing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the kid is innocent until proven
> 
> but
> 
> since the cops walked away, Zimmerman is not guilty either.
Click to expand...

Innocent? where? Only ion a court of law,

btw, Not guilty, and innocent, have two very different standards in law.


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing. Who had no record. They also had a tape of Zimmerman saying he was following the innocent kid. And..it seems Zimmerman, who was armed, confronted a kid, who was unarmed and who had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS..then SHOT HIM.
> 
> Why he isn't in jail..is beyond any sort of logic at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
Click to expand...


Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.

Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..

He's getting hit.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..
> 
> He's getting hit.
Click to expand...


are you seriously going to tell me that an overweight middle aged man ran down a thin teenager?

Then had the balls to throw at a man with a gun?


----------



## Unkotare

bodecea said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Texas is not wanting to be a part of the Union....for the second time.
Click to expand...



Really? When was that vote taken?


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..
> 
> He's getting hit.
Click to expand...


I fail to find over half the shit you post as if it were factual.

Why do you never post links to your claims?


----------



## Sallow

Two Thumbs said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..
> 
> He's getting hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you seriously going to tell me that an overweight middle aged man ran down a thin teenager?
> 
> Then had the balls to throw at a man with a gun?
Click to expand...


You know..

The guy shot and killed an unarmed teenager. And one not involved in any crimes.

That's all that germane at this point. Zimmerman should be in jail until they sort this out.

Simple as that.


----------



## Dante

somebody was calling for help? I say it was the Hispanic male


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hows the shit videos working for you little girl? You like watch other chicks take shits?
> 
> That's pretty fucking strange..no?
> 
> In any case..faggot..no swallow for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't make it through a single post without bringing up your deviant interests can you, Swallow? Maybe an occupational hazard, SWALLOW?
> 
> 
> You're still a tough-guy, right? Just checking, SWALLOW.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "My" deviant interests?
> 
> Another poster here found a disgusting website you put up with asian girls shitting.
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with you man? Really?
> 
> It's disgusting.
> 
> How you still post here is beyond me.
Click to expand...



Yes, YOUR deviant interests, since I never brought up any such wierdness and since you are lying your ass off about any website. Why would a tough-guy need to lie like a little pussy, SWALLOW? That doesn't seem very 'tough' does it, SWALLOW?


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..
> 
> He's getting hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I fail to find over half the shit you post as if it were factual.
> 
> Why do you never post links to your claims?
Click to expand...


There's links all over this thread. Including the calls to police.

Gosh.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..
> 
> He's getting hit.
Click to expand...



...with your purse


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> The guy shot and killed an unarmed teenager. And one not involved in any crimes.



who said the young man was involved in a crime? 



> No one disputes that Zimmerman called police from his SUV, then left it and encountered Trayvon on foot as the teenager returned from a 7-Eleven candy run.
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.


George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..
> 
> He's getting hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to find over half the shit you post as if it were factual.
> 
> Why do you never post links to your claims?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's links all over this thread. Including the calls to police.
> 
> Gosh.
Click to expand...

no links to anything that say half the shit you post


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't make it through a single post without bringing up your deviant interests can you, Swallow? Maybe an occupational hazard, SWALLOW?
> 
> 
> You're still a tough-guy, right? Just checking, SWALLOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "My" deviant interests?
> 
> Another poster here found a disgusting website you put up with asian girls shitting.
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with you man? Really?
> 
> It's disgusting.
> 
> How you still post here is beyond me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, YOUR deviant interests, since I never brought up any such wierdness and since you are lying your ass off about any website. Why would a tough-guy need to lie like a little pussy, SWALLOW? That doesn't seem very 'tough' does it, SWALLOW?
Click to expand...


Lie about what?

And faggot? Still no swallow for you.

Conservatives like you should spend their time looking in glory holes.

But you..like to look at teenage asian girls, shitting.

Why is that?


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, *that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge.*.
> 
> He's getting hit.
Click to expand...


the Hispanic man was chasing the kid with a gun in his hand? Where did you get this?  Chasing? where did you get that?  

Police have released little information about what happened that night and no details about how Trayvon and Zimmerman came to be face to face.

No one disputes that Zimmerman called police from his SUV, then left it and encountered Trayvon on foot as the teenager returned from a 7-Eleven candy run.

Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

post one link that backs up what you post. one link


----------



## Dante

sallow can't post one link to back up what he says. maybe he got his shit directly from Ravi?


----------



## GHook93

High_Gravity said:


> Very sad story.



Amen. Poor kid just didn't know what was going on and the crazed adult seems to have no justification!


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing. Who had no record. They also had a tape of Zimmerman saying he was following the innocent kid. And..it seems Zimmerman, who was armed, confronted a kid, who was unarmed and who had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS..then SHOT HIM.
> 
> Why he isn't in jail..is beyond any sort of logic at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
Click to expand...


might have been victim's, or the victim lunging for the gun. Not yet mentioned could be a defense of incapacity for Zimmerman. Zimmerman was not in his home, he was "patrolling" the community. His status as neighborhood "watch" is an issue also. He appears to have left his vehicle voluntarily; was he then in fear of deadly force? WHY nor drive to a police station? It is REPORTED he called 9/11, was advised to LAY OFF. By the time police were in the scene, the teenager was dead, by Zimmerman's hand.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> "My" deviant interests?
> 
> Another poster here found a disgusting website you put up with asian girls shitting.
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with you man? Really?
> 
> It's disgusting.
> 
> How you still post here is beyond me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, YOUR deviant interests, since I never brought up any such wierdness and since you are lying your ass off about any website. Why would a tough-guy need to lie like a little pussy, SWALLOW? That doesn't seem very 'tough' does it, SWALLOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lie about what?
> 
> And faggot? Still no swallow for you.
> 
> Conservatives like you should spend their time looking in glory holes.
> 
> But you..like to look at teenage asian girls, shitting.
> 
> Why is that?
Click to expand...



More lies, tough-guy? That's not very 'tough' of you, SWALLOW. Gonna have to conclude that you are a lying little pussy, SWALLOW. So much for the 'tough-guy' bit. I guess lying is more important to you, SWALLOW. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more from someone named SWALLOW.


----------



## Dante

USMB police today also challenged  reports on USMB, in which Mary Ravi and Sallow Puss, said posters largely ignored their whack-a-doodle claims, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

USMB Police said they twice tried to interview the two lunatics without success, and the third time, they wrote a very short sworn statement saying, "na, na, na, na, na, na..."


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman's bloody nose is not thus far compelling evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> might have been victim's, or the victim lunging for the gun. Not yet mentioned could be a defense of incapacity for Zimmerman. Zimmerman was not in his home, he was "patrolling" the community. His status as neighborhood "watch" is an issue also. He appears to have left his vehicle voluntarily; was he then in fear of deadly force? WHY nor drive to a police station? It is REPORTED he called 9/11, was advised to LAY OFF. By the time police were in the scene, the teenager was dead, by Zimmerman's hand.
Click to expand...


yep. so much not known. but no evidence Zimmerman did any of the things posted here



> USMB police today also challenged reports on USMB, in which Mary Ravi and Sallow Puss, said posters largely ignored their whack-a-doodle claims, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."
> 
> USMB Police said they twice tried to interview the two lunatics without success, and the third time, they wrote a very short sworn statement saying, "na, na, na, na, na, na..."


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, YOUR deviant interests, since I never brought up any such wierdness and since you are lying your ass off about any website. Why would a tough-guy need to lie like a little pussy, SWALLOW? That doesn't seem very 'tough' does it, SWALLOW?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lie about what?
> 
> And faggot? Still no swallow for you.
> 
> Conservatives like you should spend their time looking in glory holes.
> 
> But you..like to look at teenage asian girls, shitting.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, tough-guy? That's not very 'tough' of you, SWALLOW. Gonna have to conclude that you are a lying little pussy, SWALLOW. So much for the 'tough-guy' bit. I guess lying is more important to you, SWALLOW. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more from someone named SWALLOW.
Click to expand...


What lies?

A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.

You make me sick..asshole.

Find a rock and crawl into it.


----------



## Dante

GHook93 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very sad story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amen. Poor kid just didn't know what was going on and the crazed adult seems to have no justification!
Click to expand...

yep. sad story, but what justification is needed?

who knows why and how the gun came out? sounds like both got into a situation where things spiraled out of control.


----------



## Dante

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, *that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge.*.
> 
> He's getting hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the Hispanic man was chasing the kid with a gun in his hand? Where did you get this?  Chasing? where did you get that?
> 
> Police have released little information about what happened that night and no details about how Trayvon and Zimmerman came to be face to face.
> 
> No one disputes that Zimmerman called police from his SUV, then left it and encountered Trayvon on foot as the teenager returned from a 7-Eleven candy run.
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> post one link that backs up what you post. one link
Click to expand...


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> USMB police today also challenged  reports on USMB, in which Mary Ravi and Sallow Puss, said posters largely ignored their whack-a-doodle claims, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."
> 
> USMB Police said they twice tried to interview the two lunatics without success, and the third time, they wrote a very short sworn statement saying, "na, na, na, na, na, na..."



Yeah..a guy weighing 250 lbs...and armed with a 9mm gun..chases and confronts a kid who is armed with a bag of skiddles and a can of ice tea. Then shoots him.

Nothing to see here folks. Normal stuff.


----------



## Dante

why don't you two stop hijacking this thread with your girlie games?



Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lie about what?
> 
> And faggot? Still no swallow for you.
> 
> Conservatives like you should spend their time looking in glory holes.
> 
> But you..like to look at teenage asian girls, shitting.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, tough-guy? That's not very 'tough' of you, SWALLOW. Gonna have to conclude that you are a lying little pussy, SWALLOW. So much for the 'tough-guy' bit. I guess lying is more important to you, SWALLOW. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more from someone named SWALLOW.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.
> 
> You make me sick..asshole.
> 
> Find a rock and crawl into it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> USMB police today also challenged  reports on USMB, in which Mary Ravi and Sallow Puss, said posters largely ignored their whack-a-doodle claims, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."
> 
> USMB Police said they twice tried to interview the two lunatics without success, and the third time, they wrote a very short sworn statement saying, "na, na, na, na, na, na..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..a guy weighing 250 lbs...and armed with a 9mm gun..chases and confronts a kid who is armed with a bag of skiddles and a can of ice tea. Then shoots him.
> 
> Nothing to see here folks. Normal stuff.
Click to expand...


what does any of that prove?
goodbye whacko


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> why don't you two stop hijacking this thread with your girlie games?
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, tough-guy? That's not very 'tough' of you, SWALLOW. Gonna have to conclude that you are a lying little pussy, SWALLOW. So much for the 'tough-guy' bit. I guess lying is more important to you, SWALLOW. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more from someone named SWALLOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.
> 
> You make me sick..asshole.
> 
> Find a rock and crawl into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You know what Dante?

Go fuck yourself..asshole.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lie about what?
> 
> And faggot? Still no swallow for you.
> 
> Conservatives like you should spend their time looking in glory holes.
> 
> But you..like to look at teenage asian girls, shitting.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, tough-guy? That's not very 'tough' of you, SWALLOW. Gonna have to conclude that you are a lying little pussy, SWALLOW. So much for the 'tough-guy' bit. I guess lying is more important to you, SWALLOW. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more from someone named SWALLOW.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.
> 
> You make me sick..asshole.
> 
> Find a rock and crawl into it.
Click to expand...



Being a LYING LITTLE PUSSY can't be good for your 'business,' SWALLOW.


----------



## Sallow

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> USMB police today also challenged  reports on USMB, in which Mary Ravi and Sallow Puss, said posters largely ignored their whack-a-doodle claims, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."
> 
> USMB Police said they twice tried to interview the two lunatics without success, and the third time, they wrote a very short sworn statement saying, "na, na, na, na, na, na..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..a guy weighing 250 lbs...and armed with a 9mm gun..chases and confronts a kid who is armed with a bag of skiddles and a can of ice tea. Then shoots him.
> 
> Nothing to see here folks. Normal stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what does any of that prove?
> goodbye whacko
Click to expand...


It proves that murder is a-okay in your book..you fucking moron.


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, tough-guy? That's not very 'tough' of you, SWALLOW. Gonna have to conclude that you are a lying little pussy, SWALLOW. So much for the 'tough-guy' bit. I guess lying is more important to you, SWALLOW. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more from someone named SWALLOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.
> 
> You make me sick..asshole.
> 
> Find a rock and crawl into it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being a LYING LITTLE PUSSY can't be good for your 'business,' SWALLOW.
Click to expand...


Lying about what?

Google your handle.

It's amazing what comes up..you fucking faggot.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> why don't you two stop hijacking this thread with your girlie games?
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.
> 
> You make me sick..asshole.
> 
> Find a rock and crawl into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know what Dante?
> 
> Go fuck yourself..asshole.
Click to expand...



Too late to try and go back to 'tough-guy' now, SWALLOW. You are firmly set on 'LYING LITTLE PUSSY.'


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.
> 
> You make me sick..asshole.
> 
> Find a rock and crawl into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being a LYING LITTLE PUSSY can't be good for your 'business,' SWALLOW.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lying about what?
> 
> Google your handle.
> 
> It's amazing what comes up..you fucking faggot.
Click to expand...




You kinda wish you hadn't started in with all these lies now don't you, pussy?


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> why don't you two stop hijacking this thread with your girlie games?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know what Dante?
> 
> Go fuck yourself..asshole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Too late to try and go back to 'tough-guy' now, SWALLOW. You are firmly set on 'LYING LITTLE PUSSY.'
Click to expand...


Says the guy who likes to watch asian girls shitting and keeps asking a straight guy for a "swallow".

Gosh man.

At least you ain't embarrassed about it!

There is that!


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a LYING LITTLE PUSSY can't be good for your 'business,' SWALLOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lying about what?
> 
> Google your handle.
> 
> It's amazing what comes up..you fucking faggot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You kinda wish you hadn't started in with all these lies now don't you, pussy?
Click to expand...


What lies?

You post that "shit"..literally.

To late to hide from it now.

Gosh. Faggot.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know what Dante?
> 
> Go fuck yourself..asshole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too late to try and go back to 'tough-guy' now, SWALLOW. You are firmly set on 'LYING LITTLE PUSSY.'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the guy who likes to watch asian girls shitting and keeps asking a straight guy for a "swallow".
> 
> Gosh man.
> 
> At least you ain't embarrassed about it!
> 
> There is that!
Click to expand...



Keep lying, SWALLOW, make sure everyone sees what a little pussy you are.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lying about what?
> 
> Google your handle.
> 
> It's amazing what comes up..you fucking faggot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You kinda wish you hadn't started in with all these lies now don't you, pussy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> You post that "shit"..literally.
> 
> To late to hide from it now.
> 
> Gosh. Faggot.
Click to expand...




Now you've lied so many times you can't figure a way out of this hole you've dug for yourself, huh SWALLOW? If you weren't such a lying little pussy to start with you wouldn't be in this mess, SWALLOW.


----------



## alan1

Sallow said:


> Doesn't matter.
> 
> This guy committed a capital crime. No reason he should be walking around free.



Really? 
He committed a capital crime?  I hear a sound that resembles knees jerking.
Who declared you jury and judge?


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too late to try and go back to 'tough-guy' now, SWALLOW. You are firmly set on 'LYING LITTLE PUSSY.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who likes to watch asian girls shitting and keeps asking a straight guy for a "swallow".
> 
> Gosh man.
> 
> At least you ain't embarrassed about it!
> 
> There is that!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep lying, SWALLOW, make sure everyone sees what a little pussy you are.
Click to expand...


Lying?

I ain't the only one that found it..fag.

Anyone can do it too.

Google "Unkotare".


----------



## Sallow

alan1 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> This guy committed a capital crime. No reason he should be walking around free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> He committed a capital crime?  I hear a sound that resembles knees jerking.
> Who declared you jury and judge?
Click to expand...


It's okay to shoot and murder people who aren't doing anything now?

Okay..this should be fun.


----------



## bodecea

Two Thumbs said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman on the ground. Blood. Something more transpired than what most everyone here is assuming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..at the very least he walked up..armed on a kid who was, by ZIMMERMAN'S own admission, running away from him.
> 
> Dunno..pal. But if a guy walks up on me, that's been chasing me with a gun..and no badge..
> 
> He's getting hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you seriously going to tell me that an overweight middle aged man ran down a thin teenager?
> 
> Then had the balls to throw at a man with a gun?
Click to expand...


Since when is the late 20s middle-aged?


----------



## theHawk

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah..I am a tough guy. Any time you wanna check that theory out..you perverted shit lover..you come on down. You like to watch little asian girls take shits, don't ya? Ya fucking faggot.
> 
> Go fuck yourself..sicko.
Click to expand...


Looks like we got a homophobe on our hands folks!


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who likes to watch asian girls shitting and keeps asking a straight guy for a "swallow".
> 
> Gosh man.
> 
> At least you ain't embarrassed about it!
> 
> There is that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep lying, SWALLOW, make sure everyone sees what a little pussy you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lying?
> 
> I ain't the only one that found it..fag.
> 
> Anyone can do it too.
> 
> Google "Unkotare".
Click to expand...




Lying, is exactly what you are doing, SWALLOW, and you know it, SWALLOW. Now you are desperate to find a way out. Your little pussy lies have changed as you've tried to find a way out, SWALLOW. Now you are hoping that your linguistic ignorance can save you, right SWALLOW? It would have been easier for you not to be a lying little pussy in the first place, SWALLOW.


----------



## bayoubill

bodecea said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Texas is not wanting to be a part of the Union....for the second time.
Click to expand...


I've often wondered why they wanted to be a part of this mess in the first place...


----------



## theHawk

alan1 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> This guy committed a capital crime. No reason he should be walking around free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> He committed a capital crime?  I hear a sound that resembles knees jerking.
> Who declared you jury and judge?
Click to expand...


Himself.  He's a flamming liberal.  They always know whats best for everybody.


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep lying, SWALLOW, make sure everyone sees what a little pussy you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lying?
> 
> I ain't the only one that found it..fag.
> 
> Anyone can do it too.
> 
> Google "Unkotare".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lying, is exactly what you are doing, SWALLOW, and you know it, SWALLOW. Now you are desperate to find a way out. Your little pussy lies have changed as you've tried to find a way out, SWALLOW. Now you are hoping that your linguistic ignorance can save you, right SWALLOW? It would have been easier for you not to be a lying little pussy in the first place, SWALLOW.
Click to expand...


Man..you keep begging and I keep refusing. I ain't going to let you swallow my jiz little girl. But heck..for the listening audience..

Why do you like the jiz of straight men so much?

And why do you like to fecal matter of under aged asian girls so much?

You seem to be into excretions..and it ain't healthy.

Get help.

Fag.


----------



## Sallow

bayoubill said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas is not wanting to be a part of the Union....for the second time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why they wanted to be a part of this mess in the first place...
Click to expand...


It's a free country..ace.

As in you and everyone else who hates this place is free to leave.


----------



## manifold

ABikerSailor said:


> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?



White people aren't bullet-proof either, so yes, I suspect the result would have been the same.


----------



## Sallow

theHawk said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> This guy committed a capital crime. No reason he should be walking around free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> He committed a capital crime?  I hear a sound that resembles knees jerking.
> Who declared you jury and judge?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Himself.  He's a flamming liberal.  They always know whats best for everybody.
Click to expand...


Silly me.

Part of the social compact is that the police will do their best to keep assholes from killing you. But if they do..they will arrest them.

Guess in Florida..they have a different idea about that.


----------



## alan1

Sallow said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> This guy committed a capital crime. No reason he should be walking around free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> He committed a capital crime?  I hear a sound that resembles knees jerking.
> Who declared you jury and judge?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's okay to shoot and murder people who aren't doing anything now?
> 
> Okay..this should be fun.
Click to expand...


I certainly didn't say that.  Trying to disguise your statement as a question is quite the weak ploy.
Try to not be so hysterical about this.  It hasn't been proven that anybody is guilty of a crime in this matter, until that happens, you should try to refrain from making the statement "This guy committed a capital crime."
We sort of have a judicial system in this country that considers one innocent until proven guilty.  It was created that way to keep people like you from thinking they are the sole decider of innocence and/or guilt.
is that fun enough for you, or do you still want to ignore law, decency, common sense and judicial practice in your haste to declare guilt?


----------



## Sallow

alan1 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> He committed a capital crime?  I hear a sound that resembles knees jerking.
> Who declared you jury and judge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's okay to shoot and murder people who aren't doing anything now?
> 
> Okay..this should be fun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly didn't say that.  Trying to disguise your statement as a question is quite the weak ploy.
> Try to not be so hysterical about this.  It hasn't been proven that anybody is guilty of a crime in this matter, until that happens, you should try to refrain from making the statement "This guy committed a capital crime."
> We sort of have a judicial system in this country that considers one innocent until proven guilty.  It was created that way to keep people like you from thinking they are the sole decider of innocence and/or guilt.
> is that fun enough for you, or do you still want to ignore law, decency, common sense and judicial practice in your haste to declare guilt?
Click to expand...


That fine.

Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.

That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.


----------



## del

Sallow said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's okay to shoot and murder people who aren't doing anything now?
> 
> Okay..this should be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly didn't say that.  Trying to disguise your statement as a question is quite the weak ploy.
> Try to not be so hysterical about this.  It hasn't been proven that anybody is guilty of a crime in this matter, until that happens, you should try to refrain from making the statement "This guy committed a capital crime."
> We sort of have a judicial system in this country that considers one innocent until proven guilty.  It was created that way to keep people like you from thinking they are the sole decider of innocence and/or guilt.
> is that fun enough for you, or do you still want to ignore law, decency, common sense and judicial practice in your haste to declare guilt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That fine.
> 
> Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.
> 
> That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.
Click to expand...


can't have a hearing without charges, can't have charges without an investigation

that's generally what happens in this sort of case.


----------



## Crackerjack

Sallow said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> He committed a capital crime?  I hear a sound that resembles knees jerking.
> Who declared you jury and judge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Himself.  He's a flamming liberal.  They always know whats best for everybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Silly me.
> 
> Part of the social compact is that the police will do their best to keep assholes from killing you. But if they do..they will arrest them.
> 
> Guess in Florida..they have a different idea about that.
Click to expand...

I guess they should be more like the Respooblik of Texas, where, according to some, if a person looks at you sideways, you simply blow 'em away with your six shooter.

You flamming [_sic_] liberal, you.


----------



## Sallow

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly didn't say that.  Trying to disguise your statement as a question is quite the weak ploy.
> Try to not be so hysterical about this.  It hasn't been proven that anybody is guilty of a crime in this matter, until that happens, you should try to refrain from making the statement "This guy committed a capital crime."
> We sort of have a judicial system in this country that considers one innocent until proven guilty.  It was created that way to keep people like you from thinking they are the sole decider of innocence and/or guilt.
> is that fun enough for you, or do you still want to ignore law, decency, common sense and judicial practice in your haste to declare guilt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That fine.
> 
> Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.
> 
> That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> can't have a hearing without charges, can't have charges without an investigation
> 
> that's generally what happens in this sort of case.
Click to expand...


Ah so..when a killer is found over a dead body..the best practice is to let him go until everything is "figured out"?

Gee..I am glad I don't live in Florida. When a person shoots another person in NYC..they generally hold the shooter.

Silly as that sounds.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lying?
> 
> I ain't the only one that found it..fag.
> 
> Anyone can do it too.
> 
> Google "Unkotare".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lying, is exactly what you are doing, SWALLOW, and you know it, SWALLOW. Now you are desperate to find a way out. Your little pussy lies have changed as you've tried to find a way out, SWALLOW. Now you are hoping that your linguistic ignorance can save you, right SWALLOW? It would have been easier for you not to be a lying little pussy in the first place, SWALLOW.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man..you keep begging and I keep refusing. I ain't going to let you swallow my jiz little girl. But heck..for the listening audience..
> 
> Why do you like the jiz of straight men so much?
> 
> And why do you like to fecal matter of under aged asian girls so much?
> 
> You seem to be into excretions..and it ain't healthy.
> 
> Get help.
> 
> Fag.
Click to expand...



Is there anything else to the act, SWALLOW, or do you just repeat the same lie over and over and hope people eventually get bored and stop noticing what a little pussy you are?


----------



## Sallow

Crackerjack said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Himself.  He's a flamming liberal.  They always know whats best for everybody.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silly me.
> 
> Part of the social compact is that the police will do their best to keep assholes from killing you. But if they do..they will arrest them.
> 
> Guess in Florida..they have a different idea about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess they should be more like the Respooblik of Texas, where, according to some, if a person looks at you sideways, you simply blow 'em away with your six shooter.
> 
> You flamming [_sic_] liberal, you.
Click to expand...


It's the civilized thing to do.

Next up. Can close relatives really git hitched?


----------



## del

Sallow said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> That fine.
> 
> Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.
> 
> That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can't have a hearing without charges, can't have charges without an investigation
> 
> that's generally what happens in this sort of case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah so..when a killer is found over a dead body..the best practice is to let him go until everything is "figured out"?
> 
> Gee..I am glad I don't live in Florida. When a person shoots another person in NYC..they generally hold the shooter.
> 
> Silly as that sounds.
Click to expand...


if i told you i cared, i'd be lying


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lying, is exactly what you are doing, SWALLOW, and you know it, SWALLOW. Now you are desperate to find a way out. Your little pussy lies have changed as you've tried to find a way out, SWALLOW. Now you are hoping that your linguistic ignorance can save you, right SWALLOW? It would have been easier for you not to be a lying little pussy in the first place, SWALLOW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man..you keep begging and I keep refusing. I ain't going to let you swallow my jiz little girl. But heck..for the listening audience..
> 
> Why do you like the jiz of straight men so much?
> 
> And why do you like to fecal matter of under aged asian girls so much?
> 
> You seem to be into excretions..and it ain't healthy.
> 
> Get help.
> 
> Fag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything else to the act, SWALLOW, or do you just repeat the same lie over and over and hope people eventually get bored and stop noticing what a little pussy you are?
Click to expand...


What lie, little girl? Specifically? Is it a lie that you keep asking to swallow my jiz? No. You are doing it in every post.

Is it a lie that if you google "Unkotare"..a bunch of scat sites show up? Well..give it a shot.

Anyone.

Fun stuff.


----------



## Sallow

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> can't have a hearing without charges, can't have charges without an investigation
> 
> that's generally what happens in this sort of case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah so..when a killer is found over a dead body..the best practice is to let him go until everything is "figured out"?
> 
> Gee..I am glad I don't live in Florida. When a person shoots another person in NYC..they generally hold the shooter.
> 
> Silly as that sounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if i told you i cared, i'd be lying
Click to expand...


Are you threating me?

Where's my six shooter.

Meet me in Florida!


----------



## alan1

Sallow said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's okay to shoot and murder people who aren't doing anything now?
> 
> Okay..this should be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly didn't say that.  Trying to disguise your statement as a question is quite the weak ploy.
> Try to not be so hysterical about this.  It hasn't been proven that anybody is guilty of a crime in this matter, until that happens, you should try to refrain from making the statement "This guy committed a capital crime."
> We sort of have a judicial system in this country that considers one innocent until proven guilty.  It was created that way to keep people like you from thinking they are the sole decider of innocence and/or guilt.
> is that fun enough for you, or do you still want to ignore law, decency, common sense and judicial practice in your haste to declare guilt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That fine.
> 
> Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.
> 
> That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.
Click to expand...

Again, your reaction is knee-jerking.
See del's post for clarification.

Funny how you go from "This guy committed a capital crime." (which was wrong and you sort of tried to defend until common sense set you straight) to "Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing." (Which is also wrong until further actions and activities occur regarding investigation).  Back-peddle one already occurred, back-peddle two should follow shortly.  Or, you can try yet another plea to be jury and judge whilst ignoring our judicial system.
Having fun yet?


----------



## del

Sallow said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah so..when a killer is found over a dead body..the best practice is to let him go until everything is "figured out"?
> 
> Gee..I am glad I don't live in Florida. When a person shoots another person in NYC..they generally hold the shooter.
> 
> Silly as that sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if i told you i cared, i'd be lying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you threating me?
> 
> Where's my six shooter.
> 
> Meet me in Florida!
Click to expand...


i never go south of rhode island if i can help it


----------



## Intense

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...


Possibly. What the Kids Family really needs is a Witness. That said, I think the Shooting was unprovoked and the Kid was Murdered.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man..you keep begging and I keep refusing. I ain't going to let you swallow my jiz little girl. But heck..for the listening audience..
> 
> Why do you like the jiz of straight men so much?
> 
> And why do you like to fecal matter of under aged asian girls so much?
> 
> You seem to be into excretions..and it ain't healthy.
> 
> Get help.
> 
> Fag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything else to the act, SWALLOW, or do you just repeat the same lie over and over and hope people eventually get bored and stop noticing what a little pussy you are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lie, little girl? Specifically? Is it a lie that you keep asking to swallow my jiz? No. You are doing it in every post.
> 
> Is it a lie that if you google "Unkotare"..a bunch of scat sites show up? Well..give it a shot.
> 
> Anyone.
> 
> Fun stuff.
Click to expand...



So you are going to plead ignorance to try and find a way out, eh SWALLOW? Hope no one notices how your story has changed?  Maybe next time you won't act like a lying little pussy and have to go to all this trouble, SWALLOW. Learn your lesson, SWALLOW.


----------



## Intense

Sallow said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> That fine.
> 
> Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.
> 
> That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can't have a hearing without charges, can't have charges without an investigation
> 
> that's generally what happens in this sort of case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah so..when a killer is found over a dead body..the best practice is to let him go until everything is "figured out"?
> 
> Gee..I am glad I don't live in Florida. When a person shoots another person in NYC..they generally hold the shooter.
> 
> Silly as that sounds.
Click to expand...


In NYC they throw you in jail for Self Defense. The best thing you can do here, after an attack, is keep moving.


----------



## Sallow

alan1 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly didn't say that.  Trying to disguise your statement as a question is quite the weak ploy.
> Try to not be so hysterical about this.  It hasn't been proven that anybody is guilty of a crime in this matter, until that happens, you should try to refrain from making the statement "This guy committed a capital crime."
> We sort of have a judicial system in this country that considers one innocent until proven guilty.  It was created that way to keep people like you from thinking they are the sole decider of innocence and/or guilt.
> is that fun enough for you, or do you still want to ignore law, decency, common sense and judicial practice in your haste to declare guilt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That fine.
> 
> Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.
> 
> That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, your reaction is knee-jerking.
> See del's post for clarification.
> 
> Funny how you go from "This guy committed a capital crime." (which was wrong and you sort of tried to defend until common sense set you straight) to "Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing." (Which is also wrong until further actions and activities occur regarding investigation).  Back-peddle one already occurred, back-peddle two should follow shortly.  Or, you can try yet another plea to be jury and judge whilst ignoring our judicial system.
> Having fun yet?
Click to expand...


Capital punishment in Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems that they do consider murder a capital crime in Florida.

And it seems that on it's face..Zimmerman pursued a teenager, who was unarmed, who was not involved in any illegal activity..confronted him and shot him.

So on it's face..it seems like murder.

At the very least..he should be in jail.


----------



## Crackerjack

Sallow said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silly me.
> 
> Part of the social compact is that the police will do their best to keep assholes from killing you. But if they do..they will arrest them.
> 
> Guess in Florida..they have a different idea about that.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they should be more like the Respooblik of Texas, where, according to some, if a person looks at you sideways, you simply blow 'em away with your six shooter.
> 
> You flamming [_sic_] liberal, you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the civilized thing to do.
> 
> Next up. Can close relatives really git hitched?
Click to expand...

In Texas, first cousin marriage was legal until 2005.  Of course, it's still legal in New York, so ...


----------



## Sallow

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything else to the act, SWALLOW, or do you just repeat the same lie over and over and hope people eventually get bored and stop noticing what a little pussy you are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What lie, little girl? Specifically? Is it a lie that you keep asking to swallow my jiz? No. You are doing it in every post.
> 
> Is it a lie that if you google "Unkotare"..a bunch of scat sites show up? Well..give it a shot.
> 
> Anyone.
> 
> Fun stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you are going to plead ignorance to try and find a way out, eh SWALLOW? Hope no one notices how your story has changed?  Maybe next time you won't act like a lying little pussy and have to go to all this trouble, SWALLOW. Learn your lesson, SWALLOW.
Click to expand...


What lesson?

That you like to suck dick and watch asian girls take shits?

Yes..it was painful.

Fag.


----------



## Unkotare

Sallow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What lie, little girl? Specifically? Is it a lie that you keep asking to swallow my jiz? No. You are doing it in every post.
> 
> Is it a lie that if you google "Unkotare"..a bunch of scat sites show up? Well..give it a shot.
> 
> Anyone.
> 
> Fun stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are going to plead ignorance to try and find a way out, eh SWALLOW? Hope no one notices how your story has changed?  Maybe next time you won't act like a lying little pussy and have to go to all this trouble, SWALLOW. Learn your lesson, SWALLOW.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What lesson?
> 
> That you like to suck dick and watch asian girls take shits?
> 
> Yes..it was painful.
> 
> Fag.
Click to expand...




It's not working, SWALLOW. Everyone still sees that you are a lying little pussy.


----------



## Dante

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> why don't you two stop hijacking this thread with your girlie games?
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What lies?
> 
> A quick google of your handle comes up with a plethora of "scat" sites. And you are the one vying for a homosexual encounter..here..ace..not me.
> 
> You make me sick..asshole.
> 
> Find a rock and crawl into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know what Dante?
> 
> Go fuck yourself..asshole.
Click to expand...


So that's a yes for when you come out west? cool.

Do you play softball?


----------



## Zoom

ABikerSailor said:


> But see, the thing I'm still wondering is why the police didn't check the shooter to see if he was impaired (drunk or stoned), as well as why wasn't there a bit more investigation into this?
> 
> Never mind the fact that this idiot Zimmerman is still running around free, with no charges filed against him.



The police told him what to say. That is why they are not pursing this.  Also, they told the victims family he was clean.  Another lie.

Someone screwed up here big time.  How dare this black kid walk to that house in a gated community.

The dispatcher told the shooter to NOT approach the kid.  He did, they fought (as would I) and he begged for his life until he was shot and killed.

Zimmerman is a murderer.  Period but its florida so of course the cops did nothing.  Its fucking amazing to me.


----------



## Dante

del said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> can't have a hearing without charges, can't have charges without an investigation
> 
> that's generally what happens in this sort of case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah so..when a killer is found over a dead body..the best practice is to let him go until everything is "figured out"?
> 
> Gee..I am glad I don't live in Florida. When a person shoots another person in NYC..they generally hold the shooter.
> 
> Silly as that sounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if i told you i cared, i'd be lying
Click to expand...


Sallow now has an open invitation to share a pizza at Santarp's West after a game of softball.


----------



## alan1

Sallow said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> That fine.
> 
> Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing.
> 
> That's generally what happens in these sort of cases.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, your reaction is knee-jerking.
> See del's post for clarification.
> 
> Funny how you go from "This guy committed a capital crime." (which was wrong and you sort of tried to defend until common sense set you straight) to "Zimmerman should be in jail..awaiting a hearing." (Which is also wrong until further actions and activities occur regarding investigation).  Back-peddle one already occurred, back-peddle two should follow shortly.  Or, you can try yet another plea to be jury and judge whilst ignoring our judicial system.
> Having fun yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Capital punishment in Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Seems that they do consider murder a capital crime in Florida.
> 
> And it seems that on it's face..Zimmerman pursued a teenager, who was unarmed, who was not involved in any illegal activity..confronted him and shot him.
> 
> So on it's face..it seems like murder.
> 
> At the very least..he should be in jail.
Click to expand...

And since you are in NYC and not a member of the investigating police department why should I (or anybody else) trust that you have all the facts surrounding the incident?
Your words, "And it seems that on it's face", somehow, I think arrests, criminal charges and incarceration require just a tad bit more than "seems".
I'm not defending Mr Zimmerman, I'm defending the law and how one is presumed innocent until proven guilty.  it also requires a certain amount of evidence prior to charging a person with a crime and holding them in a jail cell.  If that level of evidence is met, Mr Zimmerman will be arrested, charged and maybe held in a jail cell.  Your outrage expressed on an internet message board meets none of that criteria.


----------



## Zoom

uptownlivin90 said:


> The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home. From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.



What badge?  He named himself "captain" of a neighborhood watch.  It was not his job to approach that kid, but like the shooter said, "they always get away".  


There is no doubt this was racial.  None.  A witness was walking his dog. I wonder why that "captain" didnt say he was suspicious.  

Its sickening and will be hard for republicans to defend, but they will try.


----------



## Crackerjack

Zoom said:


> Zimmerman is a murderer.  Period but its florida so of course the cops did nothing.  Its fucking amazing to me.


I don't know what they're doing down there, but they seem to attract crooked cops like shit attracts flies.

Meet Maj. Joseph Floyd, Leading Candidate for Most Crooked Cop in America - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine


----------



## Dante

dante said:


> sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well dante..ol' bean. I will be in california around july 2nd of this year for a family wedding.
> 
> Maybe we can meet up for a few beers..or something. :d
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i have always been up with meeting message board denizens. I've never been one to hide. I would love to share a brew with you or anyone else who will step out fro behind the curtain.
> 
> 
> 
> I've sat outside with a sign in one city after posting where i'd be. People are funny. I've been stalked by crazies, one even came by where i was working.  But most message board denizens are ok.
> 
> You? You ok? Or a tough guy?
Click to expand...


:d


----------



## Zoom

Peach said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lee's department said it plans on passing its investigation over to the state's attorney office to determine whether to press charges against Zimmerman. Page 3: Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
> ************************************************************
> The SA will thus decide if criminal charges are warranted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He shot a guy in cold blood.
> 
> There's no reason he should be out and about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *************************************************************
> Varying witness accounts & OF COURSE the shooter claims self defense.
Click to expand...


you are allowed to shoot someone in florida when your life is in danger.  How is HIS life in danger when he was told to NOT approach that kid.  He did and got into it with him.  If I was that kid and some idiot in jeans came to me for no reason saying I was being "suspicious" we would have gotten into as well.

Fuck him and I hope he burns.  I doubt he will since the police coaxed him into what to say and got busted doing it.


----------



## Dot Com

looks like the Feds are opening an investigation of their own: Federal agencies to open investigation into black teen&rsquo;s death - The Washington Post

Sanford is a podunk town anyway.


----------



## Dante

Dot Com said:


> looks like the Feds are opening an investigation of their own: Federal agencies to open investigation into black teen&rsquo;s death - The Washington Post
> 
> Sanford is a podunk town anyway.



great. Florida is nuts. Terri Schiavo


----------



## del

Dante said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah so..when a killer is found over a dead body..the best practice is to let him go until everything is "figured out"?
> 
> Gee..I am glad I don't live in Florida. When a person shoots another person in NYC..they generally hold the shooter.
> 
> Silly as that sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if i told you i cared, i'd be lying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sallow now has an open invitation to share a pizza at Santarp's West after a game of softball.
Click to expand...


bullshit

santarp's west would be in everett


----------



## Zoom

theHawk said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to one caller, she is quite hysterical the whole time but she does say on two occasions(at about 21:30 and 23:43 in that link) the two men were wrestling with each other on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I really don't care what the parents of either party has to say, none of them witnessed it.
> 
> I was simply pointed out that an actual eye witness stated that the two men were wrestling with each other.
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
Click to expand...


He was instructed to not appoach that kid.  He did anyway.  If it were me rolling around with that fucking idiot, I would try to take his gun as well.

How can you fucking say Zimmerman was right in any way shape or form?


----------



## Crackerjack

Dot Com said:


> looks like the Feds are opening an investigation of their own: Federal agencies to open investigation into black teen&rsquo;s death - The Washington Post
> 
> Sanford is a podunk town anyway.


Zimmerman's toast.  The Feds are going to find him guilty of something even if it kills him.


----------



## del

Zoom said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I really don't care what the parents of either party has to say, none of them witnessed it.
> 
> I was simply pointed out that an actual eye witness stated that the two men were wrestling with each other.
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was instructed to not appoach that kid.  He did anyway.  If it were me rolling around with that fucking idiot, I would try to take his gun as well.
> 
> *How can you fucking say Zimmerman was right in any way shape or form?*
Click to expand...


thehawk is an idiot.

i thought you knew


----------



## Dot Com

without having read much of the story, that small black kid looks harmless.


----------



## Zoom

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening*.  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What crime was Trayvon committing?
Click to expand...


WWB in a gated community.  Duh.


----------



## Dot Com

that black kid looks like he'd be on the honor roll at the local school. Sanford PD looks pretty bad just on the available info so far. Not even a manslaughter charge? Must be that NRA- endorsed "stand your ground" vigilante law they passed down there.


----------



## theHawk

Zoom said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I really don't care what the parents of either party has to say, none of them witnessed it.
> 
> I was simply pointed out that an actual eye witness stated that the two men were wrestling with each other.
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was instructed to not appoach that kid.  He did anyway.  If it were me rolling around with that fucking idiot, I would try to take his gun as well.
> 
> How can you fucking say Zimmerman was right in any way shape or form?
Click to expand...


I'm not saying Zimmerman was right in any way shape of form.  

Is this the way you batshit crazy liberals debate, you simply lie about what people say?

I said he is not legally obligated to just hide or run away like 911 dispatchers always tell people to do.  The operators are just covering their own asses so they can't get blammed for making a situation worse.

If a citizen suspects a crime is happening, it is within his rights to try to stop it.   Is that what happened here?  Who knows, we should wait until we have the facts before calling for someone to "burn".


----------



## theHawk

Dot Com said:


> without having read much of the story, that small black kid looks harmless.



Yea most school photos make kids look that way.  That means he must be innocent of any wrongdoing, because he's photo makes him look harmless.


----------



## Crackerjack

This looks to be the decedent's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1353307542


----------



## Dot Com




----------



## Douger

That's referred to as a preemptive strike.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Intense said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Possibly. What the Kids Family really needs is a Witness. That said, I think the Shooting was unprovoked and the Kid was Murdered.
Click to expand...


You know?  You're right........the family DOES need a witness.

Wanna know where they can probably get one?  The place was a gated community (meaning very rich) which means they probably also have video cameras all over the place.

Hopefully, if they check the security tapes, they'll be able to find some that showed what actually happened.

And, like I've said before, this Zimmerman dude is someone who wanted to be on the police force but was rejected, which is why he decided to self appoint himself as part of the neighborhood watch.

However..............when the police told him (on his OWN 911 call) to stop following him, and he continued?  That doesn't really pass the smell test for him being "threatened", because as another poster brought up, he should have kept his ass in his car and NOT FOLLOWED THE TEEN.

Then...................there's also the record of bogus 911 calls that Zimmerman made which didn't go anywhere, and he made them at the rate of 1 every 3 days for SIX FUCKING MONTHS.

This dude needs to be locked up pending investigation.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Dot Com said:


> that black kid looks like he'd be on the honor roll at the local school. Sanford PD looks pretty bad just on the available info so far. Not even a manslaughter charge? Must be that NRA- endorsed "stand your ground" vigilante law they passed down there.



You know..........based on all the news coverage that this story has gotten, not much has been said in a negative light on the youth, he was a decent student who participated in sports (football) and didn't appear to have any real behavior problems going on.

Zimmerman?  Well.........there's his obsession with calling the police, as well as his failed dreams of being a police officer combined with his self appointment to the neighborhood watch.

I think Zimmerman was hoping to be a hero, but ended up being a chump in the worst sort of way.


----------



## Douger

ABikerSailor said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> that black kid looks like he'd be on the honor roll at the local school. Sanford PD looks pretty bad just on the available info so far. Not even a manslaughter charge? Must be that NRA- endorsed "stand your ground" vigilante law they passed down there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know..........based on all the news coverage that this story has gotten, not much has been said in a negative light on the youth, he was a decent student who participated in sports (football) and didn't appear to have any real behavior problems going on.
> 
> Zimmerman?  Well.........there's his obsession with calling the police, as well as his failed dreams of being a police officer combined with his self appointment to the neighborhood watch.
> 
> I think Zimmerman was hoping to be a hero, but ended up being a chump in the worst sort of way.
Click to expand...

He's a fucking Jew. What part of "superiority complex" and "delusions of grandeur" don't you get ?
They're chosen ( self chosen).
Guess what the judge and prosecutor will be ? Yeah. Australians.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Im more than a little taken back by the assumption Zimmerman "murdered" the teen.

the cops were clear that there was a fight.

Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on the back of his shirt.

Seems to me he shot the teen in self defense.

sucks

raise your kids better
don't let them run around at night alone
teach them to show respect to other adults


----------



## Peach

Douger said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> that black kid looks like he'd be on the honor roll at the local school. Sanford PD looks pretty bad just on the available info so far. Not even a manslaughter charge? Must be that NRA- endorsed "stand your ground" vigilante law they passed down there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know..........based on all the news coverage that this story has gotten, not much has been said in a negative light on the youth, he was a decent student who participated in sports (football) and didn't appear to have any real behavior problems going on.
> 
> Zimmerman?  Well.........there's his obsession with calling the police, as well as his failed dreams of being a police officer combined with his self appointment to the neighborhood watch.
> 
> I think Zimmerman was hoping to be a hero, but ended up being a chump in the worst sort of way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's a fucking Jew. What part of "superiority complex" and "delusions of grandeur" don't you get ?
> They're chosen ( self chosen).
> Guess what the judge and prosecutor will be ? Yeah. Australians.
Click to expand...



CHUMP? The killer left his vehicle ARMED  to follow a teenager walking who looked suspicious to HIM. 9/11 advised him not to, as police were on the way. Killer is found standing over the victim, and claims self defense. Victim did not respond to "questioning" by the killer. Killer is not arrested; WHEREABOUTS unknown. Killer had possible grass stains, and bloody nose after shooting unarmed victim. Police do not arrest, do not bring killer in for questioning. *This part is unusual; police generally bring those who kill someone in for an "explanation". While I am unsure if bringing DOJ in was appropriate, FDLE would be SOP I think from past experience. *


----------



## Sarah G

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...


Zimmerman is a psycho, I don't know if he'd have been different with someone of another race.  I cry for the poor kid who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  They will go after Zimmerman for hate crime and I only hope no other innocent person will ever have the misfortune to face him again.


----------



## Peach

theHawk said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely false.  People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened.  If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response?  Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.
> 
> indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
Click to expand...



The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?


----------



## Sarah G

Two Thumbs said:


> Im more than a little taken back by the assumption Zimmerman "murdered" the teen.
> 
> the cops were clear that there was a fight.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on the back of his shirt.
> 
> Seems to me he shot the teen in self defense.
> 
> sucks
> 
> raise your kids better
> don't let them run around at night alone
> teach them to show respect to other adults



Jeezus, are you for real?


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sarah G said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is a *psycho*, I don't know if he'd have been different with someone of another race.  I cry for the poor kid who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  They will go after Zimmerman for *hate crime* and I only hope no other innocent person will ever have the *misfortune *to face him again.
Click to expand...


wtf?

any proof, any at all that he's crazy or murdered the kid?



all this assumption cuz the media told you what to think.

WHITE GUN toting MAN, KILLS poor innocent minority black teen who was just walking around minding his own business.

never mind the fact that the GUN TOTING WHITE MAN, was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on his back b/c he's a GUN TOTING WHITE MAN

and is therefore guilty b/c we the media, says so.

SO There!!


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sarah G said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im more than a little taken back by the assumption Zimmerman "murdered" the teen.
> 
> the cops were clear that there was a fight.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on the back of his shirt.
> 
> Seems to me he shot the teen in self defense.
> 
> sucks
> 
> raise your kids better
> don't let them run around at night alone
> teach them to show respect to other adults
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezus, are you for real?
Click to expand...


yes sweetheart.

I actually read up on the facts, you didn't.

I know what I'm talking about.
You're full of shit.


----------



## Peach

Sarah G said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im more than a little taken back by the assumption Zimmerman "murdered" the teen.
> 
> the cops were clear that there was a fight.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on the back of his shirt.
> 
> Seems to me he shot the teen in self defense.
> 
> sucks
> 
> raise your kids better
> don't let them run around at night alone
> teach them to show respect to other adults
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezus, are you for real?
Click to expand...


*Zimmerman was so afraid of the teenager he left his car & followed him*; ODD self defense. Why wasn't Zimmerman picked up for questioning?


----------



## Sarah G

Two Thumbs said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is a *psycho*, I don't know if he'd have been different with someone of another race.  I cry for the poor kid who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  They will go after Zimmerman for *hate crime* and I only hope no other innocent person will ever have the *misfortune *to face him again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wtf?
> 
> any proof, any at all that he's crazy or murdered the kid?
> 
> 
> 
> all this assumption cuz the media told you what to think.
> 
> WHITE GUN toting MAN, KILLS poor innocent minority black teen who was just walking around minding his own business.
> 
> never mind the fact that the GUN TOTING WHITE MAN, was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on his back b/c he's a GUN TOTING WHITE MAN
> 
> and is therefore guilty b/c we the media, says so.
> 
> SO There!!
Click to expand...


The audio is available.  He did shoot a kid who had skittles and an ice tea in his hands.  He was also told by the police NOT to follow and approach the kid.  He belongs in an asylum.


----------



## Sarah G

Two Thumbs said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im more than a little taken back by the assumption Zimmerman "murdered" the teen.
> 
> the cops were clear that there was a fight.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on the back of his shirt.
> 
> Seems to me he shot the teen in self defense.
> 
> sucks
> 
> raise your kids better
> don't let them run around at night alone
> teach them to show respect to other adults
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezus, are you for real?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes sweetheart.
> 
> I actually read up on the facts, you didn't.
> 
> I know what I'm talking about.
> You're full of shit.
Click to expand...


No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Peach said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im more than a little taken back by the assumption Zimmerman "murdered" the teen.
> 
> the cops were clear that there was a fight.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and had grass stains on the back of his shirt.
> 
> Seems to me he shot the teen in self defense.
> 
> sucks
> 
> raise your kids better
> don't let them run around at night alone
> teach them to show respect to other adults
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezus, are you for real?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zimmerman was so afraid of the teenager he left his car & followed him*; ODD self defense. Why wasn't Zimmerman picked up for questioning?
Click to expand...


Ask the professionals that were at the scene.

you know, the cops?

they have training to pick out a liar.
They have seen people after they have gotten beaten up.
and they know how to question people.


----------



## Emma

Immanuel said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, I still believe this guy deserves a fair trial.
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming theres evidence he allegedly committed a crime to begin with.
> 
> What was Zimmermans motive to kill this particular person? Did Zimmerman simply go out and kill the first black person he came across?
> 
> If one is going to remove Zimmerman from the context of the Castle Doctrine statute, there needs to be evidence that there was intent on Zimmermans part to commit a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if there is no evidence that he committed a crime then he will have ben exonerated even before the trial and no such trial will have been necessary.  Although, I suspect he will be better off if he quickly relocates to a new state. * While he lives where he does now, he will be constantly looking over his shoulder.*
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...


Ironic, huh?


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly. What the Kids Family really needs is a Witness. That said, I think the Shooting was unprovoked and the Kid was Murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know?  You're right........the family DOES need a witness.
> 
> Wanna know where they can probably get one?  The place was a gated community (meaning very rich) which means they probably also have video cameras all over the place.
> 
> Hopefully, if they check the security tapes, they'll be able to find some that showed what actually happened.
> 
> And, like I've said before, this Zimmerman dude is someone who wanted to be on the police force but was rejected, which is why he decided to self appoint himself as part of the neighborhood watch.
> 
> However..............when the police told him (on his OWN 911 call) to stop following him, and he continued?  That doesn't really pass the smell test for him being "threatened", because as another poster brought up, he should have kept his ass in his car and NOT FOLLOWED THE TEEN.
> 
> Then...................there's also the record of bogus 911 calls that Zimmerman made which didn't go anywhere, and he made them at the rate of 1 every 3 days for SIX FUCKING MONTHS.
> 
> This dude needs to be locked up pending investigation.
Click to expand...


Gated communities in Florida run the gamut from gated trailer parks to gated mansions. Don't assume this is a rich place.

this is interesting:

Trayvon Martin Killing: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recounts Events - ABC News


----------



## Peach

Two Thumbs said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezus, are you for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Zimmerman was so afraid of the teenager he left his car & followed him*; ODD self defense. Why wasn't Zimmerman picked up for questioning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask the professionals that were at the scene.
> 
> you know, the cops?
> 
> they have training to pick out a liar.
> They have seen people after they have gotten beaten up.
> and they know how to question people.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman wasn't even questioned at the police station from what I have read; that IS unusual after a shooting death.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sarah G said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezus, are you for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes sweetheart.
> 
> I actually read up on the facts, you didn't.
> 
> I know what I'm talking about.
> You're full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.
Click to expand...



George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

"He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.

*Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.


you stand corrected.

Would you like to learn more?


----------



## Two Thumbs

Peach said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Zimmerman was so afraid of the teenager he left his car & followed him*; ODD self defense. Why wasn't Zimmerman picked up for questioning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask the professionals that were at the scene.
> 
> you know, the cops?
> 
> they have training to pick out a liar.
> They have seen people after they have gotten beaten up.
> and they know how to question people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman wasn't even questioned at the police station from what I have read; that IS unusual after a shooting death.
Click to expand...


George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

the link has lots of facts in it.


Even tells what a 3rd witness saw.

which helps confirm what Zimmerman told the cops and what they found.


----------



## Peach

Two Thumbs said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes sweetheart.
> 
> I actually read up on the facts, you didn't.
> 
> I know what I'm talking about.
> You're full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
Click to expand...


*Zimmerman was in his vehicle, got out to follow the teenager, Martin.* WHY wasn't Zimmerman taken in for questioning? WAS HE? I am reading his current whereabouts are UNKOWN.


----------



## Sarah G

Two Thumbs said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes sweetheart.
> 
> I actually read up on the facts, you didn't.
> 
> I know what I'm talking about.
> You're full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt &#8212; Zimmerman &#8212; who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
Click to expand...




> Nearly half a million people have signed an online petition on change.org urging law enforcement officials to step in and arrest Zimmerman. Protest have played out in the Florida town all week with a large gathering expected Thursday.
> 
> Zimmerman blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. *The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."*
> 
> According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and *Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.*
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017



You're making a fool of yourself, thumbs..


----------



## Two Thumbs

Peach said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Zimmerman was in his vehicle, got out to follow the teenager, Martin.* WHY wasn't Zimmerman taken in for questioning? WAS HE? I am reading his current whereabouts are UNKOWN.
Click to expand...


I hate repeating myself, especially to the same person.

*ASK THE FUCKING COPS*

he can't be found by you and me b/c of DEATH THREATS.

I do hope that sunk in.


----------



## Sarah G

One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?


----------



## Peach

Sarah G said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly half a million people have signed an online petition on change.org urging law enforcement officials to step in and arrest Zimmerman. Protest have played out in the Florida town all week with a large gathering expected Thursday.
> 
> Zimmerman blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. *The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."*
> 
> According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and *Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.*
> 
> Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - ABC News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're making a fool of yourself, thumbs..
Click to expand...


I've read now the killer was taken into custody, briefly, then released. Whereabouts unknown.


----------



## Sarah G

Peach said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly half a million people have signed an online petition on change.org urging law enforcement officials to step in and arrest Zimmerman. Protest have played out in the Florida town all week with a large gathering expected Thursday.
> 
> Zimmerman blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. *The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."*
> 
> According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and *Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.*
> 
> Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - ABC News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're making a fool of yourself, thumbs..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've read now the killer was taken into custody, briefly, then released. Whereabouts unknown.
Click to expand...


He can still legally carry a gun too.


----------



## Peach

Two Thumbs said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Zimmerman was in his vehicle, got out to follow the teenager, Martin.* WHY wasn't Zimmerman taken in for questioning? WAS HE? I am reading his current whereabouts are UNKOWN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate repeating myself, especially to the same person.
> 
> *ASK THE FUCKING COPS*
> 
> he can't be found by you and me b/c of DEATH THREATS.
> 
> I do hope that sunk in.
Click to expand...



FDLE will be asking the "cops", thank God.


----------



## mudwhistle

Sarah G said:


> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?



Kind of stupid to yell for help once your attacker has been shot and killed. Also, realizing what just happened tends to cause shock to set in.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sarah G said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly half a million people have signed an online petition on change.org urging law enforcement officials to step in and arrest Zimmerman. Protest have played out in the Florida town all week with a large gathering expected Thursday.
> 
> Zimmerman blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. *The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."*
> 
> According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and *Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.*
> 
> Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - ABC News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're making a fool of yourself, thumbs..
Click to expand...


OMFG!!

You can't comprehend english.

In other words, since you can't comprehend;  He can carry a gun, and he is allowed to talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime for any reason.

fucking liberals.

assume the kids is innocent, even when there's a witness that that *saw Zimmerman on the ground.*



Class dismissed.  since you can't admit you were wrong and I will move along w/o bothering with you again.


----------



## Sarah G

mudwhistle said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of stupid to yell for help once your attacker has been shot and killed. Also, realizing what just happened tends to cause shock to set in.
Click to expand...


Yeah.  It was that poor kid with the skittles yelling for help.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Sarah G said:


> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?



Holy shit.

that's so dumb, I have to break my word.


He just shot his attacker and that stopped him from being attacked some more.

Only a crazy person would keep yelling for help.

thus whacking your "he's crazy" bit.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> If someone with a gun was running after you and caught up to you,  and you had the chance to grab or deflect it away, they'd be within their rights to shoot you?
Click to expand...


This is hilarious.

Cananyone imagine what the libtards would be saying if the story were reversed, if it was a black man who shot a white guy in cold blood?

Oh, we do know BECAUSE IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME and the libtards and media ignore it.

This sniffs like another bullshit libtard show trial in the media.

Anyone remember the Duke case in its early stages? Everyone knew those racist white boys raped that black girl. Why would she lie?

The libtards are against ANYONE using deadly force in self-defense or anything else.

A 17 year old male can get pretty big, but are these the latest phoitoes of Trayvon? He sure as hell does not look like he is 17, but none of the libtards are asking about that or addressing it.

No one knows if Trayvon what Travon was doing. Why was he wandering around in the rain if he was returning candy to his daddy who was too lazy to go himself or drive the kid?

Why does the hispanic guy not have the right to walk around in HIS OWN NEIGHBORHOOD?

How do libtards know the hispanic guy was running after him with a visible gun?

No one knows jack shit except for the cops who are investigating, and all the racist presumptions of a white gun nut out to kill a random black teen ager is stupid, disgusting racism itself, but libtards are too stupid to see it.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Peach said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Zimmerman was in his vehicle, got out to follow the teenager, Martin.* WHY wasn't Zimmerman taken in for questioning? WAS HE? I am reading his current whereabouts are UNKOWN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate repeating myself, especially to the same person.
> 
> *ASK THE FUCKING COPS*
> 
> he can't be found by you and me b/c of DEATH THREATS.
> 
> I do hope that sunk in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> FDLE will be asking the "cops", thank God.
Click to expand...


Hopefully to charge the parents with disturbing the peace with their racist bullshit.


----------



## Peach

mudwhistle said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of stupid to yell for help once your attacker has been shot and killed. Also, realizing what just happened tends to cause shock to set in.
Click to expand...


The killer seldom yells for help after the VICTIM is dead. Zimmerman is reported to have stood over the body however. And of course VICTIMS like Zimmerman FOLLOW the person that has put them in fear of their lives Med.


----------



## Sallow

Peach said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly half a million people have signed an online petition on change.org urging law enforcement officials to step in and arrest Zimmerman. Protest have played out in the Florida town all week with a large gathering expected Thursday.
> 
> Zimmerman blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. *The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."*
> 
> According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and *Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.*
> 
> Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - ABC News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're making a fool of yourself, thumbs..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've read now the killer was taken into custody, briefly, then released. Whereabouts unknown.
Click to expand...


Oh goody.

These cops sound as smart as the cops that when a young asian man in underpants begged them for help..and identified someone who was assaulting him..they took the guy back to the apartment. When the alledged perp opened the door, he told the cops that the asian man was his boyfriend and they had a tiff. The cops drop the asian man off with the perp and left. On the way back..they are heard on tapes saying they needed to de-louse the car.

The perp's name?

Jeffery Dahmer. And he killed the kid after the cops left.

So now what they have in Florida..is a guy on the loose..who really did kill a kid..and it's not known where he is.

Good stuff.


----------



## Sarah G

Two Thumbs said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy shit.
> 
> that's so dumb, I have to break my word.
> 
> 
> He just shot his attacker and that stopped him from being attacked some more.
> 
> Only a crazy person would keep yelling for help.
> 
> thus whacking your "he's crazy" bit.
Click to expand...


Yeah...  He is going to prison.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
Click to expand...


And some prowler trying to grab your gun would be reasonable belief among the sane.

But not for a libtard, apparently.

Cant wait to see what the Holder DoJ will do about this.

Anyone care to bet this guy gets tried in federal court?


----------



## Sarah G

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> 
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some prowler trying to grab your gun would be reasonable belief among the sane.
> 
> But not for a libtard, apparently.
> 
> Cant wait to see what the Holder DoJ will do about this.
> 
> Anyone care to bet this guy gets tried in federal court?
Click to expand...


Why oh why do Republicants want a world where anyone can just shoot anyone anytime?  They must be psychotic.


----------



## Sallow

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> 
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some prowler trying to grab your gun would be reasonable belief among the sane.
> 
> But not for a libtard, apparently.
> 
> Cant wait to see what the Holder DoJ will do about this.
> 
> Anyone care to bet this guy gets tried in federal court?
Click to expand...


That's not what happened. The kid was not involved in any crime. Zimmerman followed him around the streets, got out..and confronted him while armed. He's not the police.

And you don't even know who started the fight.

The facts now are thus:

Zimmerman spotted the kid. Called 911. Followed him. Confronted him. A fight ensued. Then Zimmerman shot the kid. The kid was unarmed. The kid was not engaged in criminal activity. The kid was visiting a friend at the community.

At the very least Zimmerman should be held. He's proven to be a danger. Given that he has an arrest record..for fighting with a cop..this demonstrates, in no uncertain terms..this is a violent person.


----------



## manifold

I still haven't heard any facts about what Martin was doing in the gated community in the first place.

His mom says he was visiting a friend.  Does this friend have a name?  Does this friend have a tongue?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sunshine said:


> And of course the initial assumption was 'black kid gets shot, white racist did it' when in fact the shooter was not white but Hispanic.  .



Just a point of ordere here: most hispanics self-identify as 'white', and almost all the rest self-identify as 'other' or 'no race'.

Speaking Spanish does not make you 'not white'.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sallow said:


> Turns out the new conservative Hero..and murderer..has an arrest record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though there are no enrollment records suggesting Zimmerman has attended a law-enforcement academy, he carried a concealed weapon and expressed his desire to wear a badge. He's currently enrolled in a general education program at Valencia Community College.
> 
> "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one," Zimmerman wrote in a 2008 application to theSeminole County Sheriff's Officecitizen's law enforcement academy, a class that teaches citizens about policing and how the Sheriff's Office works.
> 
> Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 at a bar near the University of Central Florida on charges of assault on a law-enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence. Both charges were ultimately dropped, according to court records.
> Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Page 2 - dailyamerican.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.
> 
> Man.
Click to expand...


Because we all know that the only people who want to be cops are racist with the secret desire to kill a black teen.

Good God.


----------



## Sarah G

manifold said:


> I still haven't heard any facts about what Martin was doing in the gated community in the first place.
> 
> His mom says he was visiting a friend.  Does this friend have a name?  Does this friend have a tongue?


He was at his father's fiance's house.  He went to 711 to get a snack.  He was talking to a friend on the phone when the nutbar started following him.  The friend on the phone told him to run.  He said he wouldn't run but he started walking faster.

He eventually ran.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?




Of course, but he isnt the one being accused of murder.


----------



## Sallow

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, but he isnt the one being accused of murder.
Click to expand...


Generally..when one man kills another...in this country..they are incarcerated..processed and a bail is set.

Then they have a trial to determine guilt or innocence.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sarah G said:


> Why oh why do Republicants want a world where anyone can just shoot anyone anytime?  They must be psychotic.



1. I am not a Republican.

2. Your argument is so weak you have to make shit up. I am obviously not for people shooting people whenever they want.

Please take a critical thinking class, or try 'Analytical Thought for Dummies'


----------



## Sallow

JimBowie1958 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turns out the new conservative Hero..and murderer..has an arrest record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though there are no enrollment records suggesting Zimmerman has attended a law-enforcement academy, he carried a concealed weapon and expressed his desire to wear a badge. He's currently enrolled in a general education program at Valencia Community College.
> 
> "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one," Zimmerman wrote in a 2008 application to theSeminole County Sheriff's Officecitizen's law enforcement academy, a class that teaches citizens about policing and how the Sheriff's Office works.
> 
> Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 at a bar near the University of Central Florida on charges of assault on a law-enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence. Both charges were ultimately dropped, according to court records.
> Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Page 2 - dailyamerican.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.
> 
> Man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because we all know that the only people who want to be cops are racist with the secret desire to kill a black teen.
> 
> Good God.
Click to expand...


You derive this, how, exactly?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sallow said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid didn't have a weapon. Shouldn't he deserve the same "innocent until proven guilty" as everyone else does?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, but he isnt the one being accused of murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Generally..when one man kills another...in this country..they are incarcerated..processed and a bail is set.
> 
> Then they have a trial to determine guilt or innocence.
Click to expand...


That  is bullshit and you know it.

Very often these things never go to trial or even h ave charges pressed if the wieght of the evidence shows reasonable use of force.

But you have already tried and convicted this man for murder simply because he is 'white' and the dead man 'black'.

BTW it is so funny how libtards regard hispanics as a seperate race from 'whites' unless they shoot a black man, then hispanics are definately white all over.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Libtard.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sallow said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turns out the new conservative Hero..and murderer..has an arrest record.
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabe copper shoots an innocent kid with no arrest record for nothing..and walks free.
> 
> Man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because we all know that the only people who want to be cops are racist with the secret desire to kill a black teen.
> 
> Good God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You derive this, how, exactly?
Click to expand...


Then why did you bring up the fact the guy wants to be a cop?

And how is having dropped charges make your record not 'squeaky clean'?

Your record is not 'squeaky clean' only if you have convictions, not arrests.


----------



## Ravi

Zimmerman is heard on one of the 911 calls saying "these fucking coons." This can be heard at about the 2:20 mark on the referenced video. [5] wikipedia

Walking while black.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sarah G said:


> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?



For the same reason that you always find what your looking  for in the last place you look.

IF he just shot the guy, why would he keep yelling for help?

Personally, I think the kid was the one yelling for help, but that does not mean that the kid was not the one who started the fight or that he did not go for Zimmermans gun.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.
> 
> indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sallow said:


> That's not what happened. The kid was not involved in any crime.



You dont know that.




Sallow said:


> Zimmerman followed him around the streets, got out..and confronted him while armed.



You dont know who first confronted who.





Sallow said:


> And you don't even know who started the fight.



Nor do you, yet you presume the white guy did it.






Sallow said:


> The facts now are thus:
> 
> Zimmerman spotted the kid. Called 911. Followed him. Confronted him. A fight ensued. Then Zimmerman shot the kid. The kid was unarmed. The kid was not engaged in criminal activity. The kid was visiting a friend at the community.



We do not know who first confronted who. And if this kid was casing homes for robbery, which there were a number locally at the time, then he would have a bullshit cover story. 'Oh, I was looking for my brother's house.' etc.



Sallow said:


> At the very least Zimmerman should be held. He's proven to be a danger. Given that he has an arrest record..for fighting with a cop..this demonstrates, in no uncertain terms..this is a violent person.



Yeah, people who defend themselves against attack are a danger to society...the leg breakers, gangbangers, meth heads ,etc, i.e. libtard constituencies.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> Zimmerman is heard on one of the 911 calls saying "these fucking coons." This can be heard at about the 2:20 mark on the referenced video. [5] wikipedia
> 
> Walking while black.



Oh, so using ethnic slang terms is proof of desire to kill a black teen on sight?

lol, you are insane.


----------



## Ravi

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is heard on one of the 911 calls saying "these fucking coons." This can be heard at about the 2:20 mark on the referenced video. [5] wikipedia
> 
> Walking while black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so using ethnic slang terms is proof of desire to kill a black teen on sight?
> 
> lol, you are insane.
Click to expand...


Not proof, but it certainly makes you doubt Zimmerman's intentions.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is heard on one of the 911 calls saying "these fucking coons." This can be heard at about the 2:20 mark on the referenced video. [5] wikipedia
> 
> Walking while black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so using ethnic slang terms is proof of desire to kill a black teen on sight?
> 
> lol, you are insane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not proof, but it certainly makes you doubt Zimmerman's intentions.
Click to expand...


Why?

You dont think blacks have ethnic slang terms they use regarding every other ethnic group?

That is how MOST ethnic groups refer to other groups, by their own  ethnic slang.

Only white people are suspect if they do that?

Is Clint Eastwood a potential murderer since he called blacks 'spooks' in a movie? lol


----------



## JimBowie1958

From a recent article:



> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police _found blood on his face _and _the back of his head_ as well as _grass on the back of his shirt_.
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt &#8212; _Zimmerman &#8212; who was on the ground_.




These pics being used to  represent Trayvon are not recent if he can knock a hefty guy like Zimmerman on the ground. These photos are shown to make it look like Trayvon could not have physically defended himself and that is apparently not the case.

Anyone have any pics more recent and data on what size Trayvon was?


----------



## Ravi

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so using ethnic slang terms is proof of desire to kill a black teen on sight?
> 
> lol, you are insane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not proof, but it certainly makes you doubt Zimmerman's intentions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> You dont think blacks have ethnic slang terms they use regarding every other ethnic group?
> 
> That is how MOST ethnic groups refer to other groups, by their own  ethnic slang.
> 
> Only white people are suspect if they do that?
> 
> Is Clint Eastwood a potential murderer since he called blacks 'spooks' in a movie? lol
Click to expand...


If a black person says about a white person "these fuckin crackers" and then shoots the white person I would also doubt the intentions of the black person.

I find it odd that you would not.


----------



## Si modo

So, is there evidence that the police are corrupted or acting outside the law in this case?

I haven't seen any.

So, why is the FBI getting involved again?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> So, is there evidence that the police are corrupted or acting outside the law in this case?
> 
> I haven't seen any.
> 
> So, why is the FBI getting involved again?



Because it is Eric Holder who leads the DoJ.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> If a black person says about a white person "these fuckin crackers" and then shoots the white person I would also doubt the intentions of the black person.
> 
> I find it odd that you would not.



I agree in those circumstnace I would see reason for suspicion.

Except it didnt happen that way. Zimmerman did not simply say 'those fuckin coons' and then shoot the kid.

We do not KNOW the exact circumstances, we only have a few facts, and some of those facts prove that Zimmerman was knocked to the ground by Trayvon, and that Trayvon had inflicted injuries to Zimmermans face and the back of his head.

How many times does a guy have to punch you in the head before you think your life is threatened? Only if you are about to black out? Only after they knock you down? The first punch?

How bad does an unarmed person have to beat you before lethal force is justified?

I have yet to hear a libtard answer that question. Wonder why?


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
Click to expand...



It would appear to negate "fear" on the killer's part.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> So, is there evidence that the police are corrupted or acting outside the law in this case?
> 
> I haven't seen any.
> 
> So, why is the FBI getting involved again?


Because they were asked to:



> U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., along with members of the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, had asked the U.S. Department of Justice to review the case, and White House spokesman Jay Carney said earlier Monday during a briefing that officials there were aware of what happened.



Feds to probe killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin | FLORIDA TODAY | floridatoday.com


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear to negate "fear" on the killer's part.
Click to expand...


You do realize that people can overcome their fear and still do what they think they must do.

It is commonly referred to as 'courage'.

Why would Zimmerman be subject to fear if he thought he might be following a burglar who had been robbing peoples homes? How would he know the person watched was not also armed?


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear to negate "fear" on the killer's part.
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't, unless you are on crack.

First of all, when he was in his car and calling 9/11, he didn't call then to talk to them about the NCAA tournament - he called because of concern over what he saw as suspicious.

And, they advised him not to get out of his car BEFORE the confrontation.  It negates NOTHING at the time of the apparent struggle (wounds on Zimmerman) and shooting.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Here is what this case is *really* about:
Florida's "Shoot First" Law: How George Zimmerman Claims Self-Defense



> As the investigation of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s killing continues, one of the biggest unanswered questions has been what Florida law is the basis for the police department&#8217;s decision not to arrest the man who confessed to Martin&#8217;s killing, George Zimmerman.
> 
> A blog post shared with us on Twitter yesterday by theCoalition To Stop  Gun Violence sheds some light on this subject. Here&#8217;s the relevant excerpt:
> 
> The reluctance of the Sanford Police Department to arrest Zimmerman probably has something to do with Florida&#8217;s outrageous &#8220;Stand Your Ground&#8221; law. The law removes the duty of individuals to retreat from a confrontation and allows them to use deadly force if they reasonably believe that it is necessary to prevent death or &#8220;great bodily harm.&#8221;



Libtards desperately want to protect their criminal constituency from possible violence as they rob/rape/kill people.


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> *The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home.* From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.



Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, is there evidence that the police are corrupted or acting outside the law in this case?
> 
> I haven't seen any.
> 
> So, why is the FBI getting involved again?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they were asked to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., along with members of the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, had asked the U.S. Department of Justice to review the case, and White House spokesman Jay Carney said earlier Monday during a briefing that officials there were aware of what happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feds to probe killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin | FLORIDA TODAY | floridatoday.com
Click to expand...

Ah.  Politicians.

Thanks.


----------



## Ravi

JimBowie1958 said:


> Here is what this case is *really* about:
> Florida's "Shoot First" Law: How George Zimmerman Claims Self-Defense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the investigation of Trayvon Martins killing continues, one of the biggest unanswered questions has been what Florida law is the basis for the police departments decision not to arrest the man who confessed to Martins killing, George Zimmerman.
> 
> A blog post shared with us on Twitter yesterday by theCoalition To Stop  Gun Violence sheds some light on this subject. Heres the relevant excerpt:
> 
> The reluctance of the Sanford Police Department to arrest Zimmerman probably has something to do with Floridas outrageous Stand Your Ground law. The law removes the duty of individuals to retreat from a confrontation and allows them to use deadly force if they reasonably believe that it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libtards desperately want to protect their criminal constituency from possible violence as they rob/rape/kill people.
Click to expand...

There's no evidence that this kid was trying to rob/rape/kill people.

Negged.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, is there evidence that the police are corrupted or acting outside the law in this case?
> 
> I haven't seen any.
> 
> So, why is the FBI getting involved again?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they were asked to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., along with members of the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, had asked the U.S. Department of Justice to review the case, and White House spokesman Jay Carney said earlier Monday during a briefing that officials there were aware of what happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feds to probe killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin | FLORIDA TODAY | floridatoday.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah.  Politicians.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


Rick Scott has also sent in the state.

And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.


----------



## Si modo

JimBowie1958 said:


> Here is what this case is *really* about:
> Florida's "Shoot First" Law: How George Zimmerman Claims Self-Defense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the investigation of Trayvon Martins killing continues, one of the biggest unanswered questions has been what Florida law is the basis for the police departments decision not to arrest the man who confessed to Martins killing, George Zimmerman.
> 
> A blog post shared with us on Twitter yesterday by theCoalition To Stop  Gun Violence sheds some light on this subject. Heres the relevant excerpt:
> 
> The reluctance of the Sanford Police Department to arrest Zimmerman probably has something to do with Floridas outrageous Stand Your Ground law. The law removes the duty of individuals to retreat from a confrontation and allows them to use deadly force if they reasonably believe that it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libtards desperately want to protect their criminal constituency from possible violence as they rob/rape/kill people.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I am not too much of a fan of this "stand your ground" stuff, but that IS the law in Florida.

The feds have no business being involved.  Unless the "stand your ground" law is unconstitutional, Florida has a perfect right to have this law, no matter how retarded others may think it is.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they were asked to:
> 
> 
> 
> Feds to probe killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin | FLORIDA TODAY | floridatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  Politicians.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering what the law hasn't done?  

Are they refusing to investigate?


----------



## Warrior102

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?



"White Man" is a Hispanic, dumbfuck.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> So, is there evidence that the police are corrupted or acting outside the law in this case?
> 
> I haven't seen any.
> 
> So, why is the FBI getting involved again?




FDLE may have called them in.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, is there evidence that the police are corrupted or acting outside the law in this case?
> 
> I haven't seen any.
> 
> So, why is the FBI getting involved again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FDLE may have called them in.
Click to expand...

Thanks.  Ravi already provided an answer.  Politicians and the Black Caucus made the request.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what this case is *really* about:
> Florida's "Shoot First" Law: How George Zimmerman Claims Self-Defense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the investigation of Trayvon Martins killing continues, one of the biggest unanswered questions has been what Florida law is the basis for the police departments decision not to arrest the man who confessed to Martins killing, George Zimmerman.
> 
> A blog post shared with us on Twitter yesterday by theCoalition To Stop  Gun Violence sheds some light on this subject. Heres the relevant excerpt:
> 
> The reluctance of the Sanford Police Department to arrest Zimmerman probably has something to do with Floridas outrageous Stand Your Ground law. The law removes the duty of individuals to retreat from a confrontation and allows them to use deadly force if they reasonably believe that it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libtards desperately want to protect their criminal constituency from possible violence as they rob/rape/kill people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's no evidence that this kid was trying to rob/rape/kill people.
> 
> Negged.
Click to expand...


Good God, you are stupid.

The repeal of 'stand your ground' laws are what the Lame Ass Media are really going for, and if that gets repealed, then yes, a lot of rapes, robberies and murders will be committed because people were hesitant to protect themselves or other innocent people.

And as to Trayvors activities, walking around in the rain looking into peoples homes would often be considered a prelude to robbing the home later by another criminal or perhaps himself. So, yes, there is evidence it could have been a robbery being planned. How do you know it was not? Since you are accusing Zimmerman the burden of proof is on you, not on those defending Zimmermans presumption of guilt.

Also it would appear that Zimmerman claims that Trayvor attacked him from behind as he got out to check out the name of the street he was on.

'Zimmerman told police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.'

So far the story Zimmerman has told has been verified by other witnesses, and this would explain how someone with Trayvors build could put a big guy like Zimmerman on the ground.

Man, you libtards really truly do have racist prejudice against whites to the point of being completely irrational. Amazing.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  Politicians.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm wondering what the law hasn't done?
> 
> Are they refusing to investigate?
Click to expand...


No, they are refusing to presume racist guilt for a white man who killed a black man.


----------



## Si modo

JimBowie1958 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering what the law hasn't done?
> 
> Are they refusing to investigate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they are refusing to presume racist guilt for a white man who killed a black man.
Click to expand...

That seems to be the case - lack of presumption of guilt.

What the holy fuck?


----------



## Peach

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they were asked to:
> 
> 
> 
> Feds to probe killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin | FLORIDA TODAY | floridatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  Politicians.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
Click to expand...



One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  Politicians.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
Click to expand...

Could you please provide a link to that call or its transcript?

Thanks.


----------



## manifold

Sarah G said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still haven't heard any facts about what Martin was doing in the gated community in the first place.
> 
> His mom says he was visiting a friend.  Does this friend have a name?  Does this friend have a tongue?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was at his father's fiance's house.  He went to 711 to get a snack.  He was talking to a friend on the phone when the nutbar started following him.  The friend on the phone told him to run.  He said he wouldn't run but he started walking faster.
> 
> He eventually ran.
Click to expand...


Was the 7/11 inside the gated community?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  Politicians.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
Click to expand...


Are you talking about the Trayvon Martin case?

Apparently he had just clobbered Zimmerman from behind, knocking him to the ground.

How does that fit in with what you said?


----------



## manifold

Ravi said:


> Zimmerman is heard on one of the 911 calls saying "these fucking coons." This can be heard at about the 2:20 mark on the referenced video. [5] wikipedia
> 
> Walking while black.



Does that make it a hate crime?


----------



## Si modo

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Trayvon Martin case?
> 
> Apparently he had just clobbered Zimmerman from behind, knocking him to the ground.
> 
> How does that fit in with what you said?
Click to expand...

Does anyone have a link to that phone call or its transcript?


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you please provide a link to that call or its transcript?
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


Trayvon Martin girlfriend speaks detail: Trayvon Martin's girlfriend speaks out with details of teen's death. - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Trayvon Martin case?
> 
> Apparently he had just clobbered Zimmerman from behind, knocking him to the ground.
> 
> How does that fit in with what you said?
Click to expand...



Uh, Zimmerman was following the VICTIM.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering what the law hasn't done?
> 
> Are they refusing to investigate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they are refusing to presume racist guilt for a white man who killed a black man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That seems to be the case - lack of presumption of guilt.
> 
> What the holy fuck?
Click to expand...


That is the USA we live in today. 

And what will follow is equally bizare; libtards will use this as conversation at work, tagging anyone a racist who does not immediately aggree that Zimmerman is a racist and all the ignorant dumbfucks will agree without checking out the facts because they are stupid and lazy and 'why would all the media lie about this?'

Conservatives will knuckle down and remain silent, choosing to not 'fight this particular fight' and then later tell other conservatives who will speak out to 'just shut up your hurting the cause', because that is what conservatives do.

Zimmerman is going to wind up in prison and likely a suicide within a few years because that is how libtards want to treat 'vigilantes', i.e. anyone who would dare defend themselves against criminals.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please provide a link to that call or its transcript?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin girlfriend speaks detail: Trayvon Martin's girlfriend speaks out with details of teen's death. - Orlando Sentinel
Click to expand...

Hearsay, not a transcript, but let's look at it:
The girlfriend of slain Miami teenager Trayvon Martin spoke to attorneys for his parents, detailing the final moments before he was shot to death by a neighborhood watch volunteer, ABC News is reporting this morning.

The 16-year-old girl, who was not identified, said in a phone call recorded by the network that as Trayvon was walking he told her "some man was watching him" so he pulled his hoodie over his head.

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably George Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.​
Speculation and hearsay.  And, I'm trying to see where you got, "One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim."

Nothing you've provided comes close to supporting what you said.


----------



## Ravi

Peach said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  Politicians.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Scott has also sent in the state.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with doing either of those things. In fact, the reluctance of the local law enforcement to do anything demands it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
Click to expand...

He probably should have been armed, but I don't think 17 year olds are allowed to have guns.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> One phone call by the victim, indicates the victim was trying to get away from the killer, who continued to follow, backtracking to hunt done the victim. The victim's attempts at self defense, if any, were useless. Should HE have been armed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Trayvon Martin case?
> 
> Apparently he had just clobbered Zimmerman from behind, knocking him to the ground.
> 
> How does that fit in with what you said?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Zimmerman was following the VICTIM.
Click to expand...

It is not against any law to follow someone (unless there is a court order not to).  

There IS law about clobbering someone over the head because they follow you.  You're not allowed to do that, FYI.  Assault.

Of course, I don't know, nor do you, if that is or is not the case.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> Uh, Zimmerman was following the VICTIM.



Up to the time 911 told him to stop we know he was following Trayvon, but nothing after that. 

If Zimmerman was following the victim just prior to the confrontation, the why did the witness see Zimmerman lying on his back? Why did Zimmerman have awound to the back of his head? Why do you presume that Zimmerman is lying?

And I will ask you the same  question I aksed earlier; how bad does an unarmed man have to beat you before you are justified to use deadly force in self defense? Knocked to the ground? Bleeding? Unconscious? lol, sounds stupid but libtards cant surprise me anymore in that regard. 

How bad does a person have to beat you before you can shoot to defend yourself?

I know you wont answer, but just to be fair....


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they are refusing to presume racist guilt for a white man who killed a black man.
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the case - lack of presumption of guilt.
> 
> What the holy fuck?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the USA we live in today.
> 
> And what will follow is equally bizare; libtards will use this as conversation at work, tagging anyone a racist who does not immediately aggree that Zimmerman is a racist and all the ignorant dumbfucks will agree without checking out the facts because they are stupid and lazy and 'why would all the media lie about this?'
> 
> Conservatives will knuckle down and remain silent, choosing to not 'fight this particular fight' and then later tell other conservatives who will speak out to 'just shut up your hurting the cause', because that is what conservatives do.
> 
> Zimmerman is going to wind up in prison and likely a suicide within a few years because that is how libtards want to treat 'vigilantes', i.e. anyone who would dare defend themselves against criminals.
Click to expand...



Bowie, the young guy had no criminal record. Zimmerman was an alleged "neighborhood watch" guy that ignored advice from emergency personnel and killed an unarmed victim after tracking him down. You don't see murder charges in this scenario? I see heavy charges for the kids who threw gas on the other kid & set him on fire, AND possibly bias charges.


----------



## del

Two Thumbs said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeezus, are you for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Zimmerman was so afraid of the teenager he left his car & followed him*; ODD self defense. Why wasn't Zimmerman picked up for questioning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask the professionals that were at the scene.
> 
> you know, the cops?
> 
> they have training to pick out a liar.
> They have seen people after they have gotten beaten up.
> and they know how to question people.
Click to expand...


^
seriously stupid shit


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the case - lack of presumption of guilt.
> 
> What the holy fuck?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the USA we live in today.
> 
> And what will follow is equally bizare; libtards will use this as conversation at work, tagging anyone a racist who does not immediately aggree that Zimmerman is a racist and all the ignorant dumbfucks will agree without checking out the facts because they are stupid and lazy and 'why would all the media lie about this?'
> 
> Conservatives will knuckle down and remain silent, choosing to not 'fight this particular fight' and then later tell other conservatives who will speak out to 'just shut up your hurting the cause', because that is what conservatives do.
> 
> Zimmerman is going to wind up in prison and likely a suicide within a few years because that is how libtards want to treat 'vigilantes', i.e. anyone who would dare defend themselves against criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bowie, the young guy had no criminal record. Zimmerman was an alleged "neighborhood watch" guy that ignored advice from emergency personnel and killed an unarmed victim after tracking him down. *You don't see murder charges in this scenario?* I see heavy charges for the kids who threw gas on the other kid & set him on fire, AND possibly bias charges.
Click to expand...

Under Florida law, no - not with the evidence they already have.  I don't agree with Florida law, but I don't live there.  

I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, *we don't presume guilt.*  They are investigating, though, as they should.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the Trayvon Martin case?
> 
> Apparently he had just clobbered Zimmerman from behind, knocking him to the ground.
> 
> How does that fit in with what you said?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Zimmerman was following the VICTIM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not against any law to follow someone (unless there is a court order not to).
> 
> There IS law about clobbering someone over the head because they follow you.  You're not allowed to do that, FYI.  Assault.
> 
> Of course, I don't know, nor do you, if that is or is not the case.
Click to expand...


Witness saw Zimmerman in a struggle and knocked to the ground. We know that Zimmerman suffered a wound to the back of his head and to his face and that he had grass covering his back. Trayvor, for all the talk about him being this wimpy little kid, sure was defending himslef quite well against ahfty 28 year old.

Why do you think the media is using pictures of him much younger in their news stories? The pic on CNN is way out of date and Trayvons nose was a lot wider and thicker in onelater photo I have seen with him wearing a hoodie.

Obviously the media want to lynch Zimmerman for daring to defend himself, and want to use him as the Poster Boy for repeal of stand your ground laws or at least stop the further doption of those laws by other states.

Gun rights people should get off the stick and make the world know what really happened.


----------



## del

Two Thumbs said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes sweetheart.
> 
> I actually read up on the facts, you didn't.
> 
> I know what I'm talking about.
> You're full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn't.  You are talking out of your ample butt once again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
> 
> "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The *media *portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."
> 
> Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.
> 
> *Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.*
> 
> That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
> 
> "I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
> 
> It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, *a man in a red shirt  Zimmerman  who was on the ground*.
> 
> 
> you stand corrected.
> 
> Would you like to learn more?
Click to expand...


^
more seriously stupid shit


----------



## Ravi

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what this case is *really* about:
> Florida's "Shoot First" Law: How George Zimmerman Claims Self-Defense
> 
> 
> 
> Libtards desperately want to protect their criminal constituency from possible violence as they rob/rape/kill people.
> 
> 
> 
> There's no evidence that this kid was trying to rob/rape/kill people.
> 
> Negged.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good God, you are stupid.
> 
> The repeal of 'stand your ground' laws are what the Lame Ass Media are really going for, and if that gets repealed, then yes, a lot of rapes, robberies and murders will be committed because people were hesitant to protect themselves or other innocent people.
> 
> And as to Trayvors activities, walking around in the rain looking into peoples homes would often be considered a prelude to robbing the home later by another criminal or perhaps himself. So, yes, there is evidence it could have been a robbery being planned. How do you know it was not? Since you are accusing Zimmerman the burden of proof is on you, not on those defending Zimmermans presumption of guilt.
> 
> Also it would appear that Zimmerman claims that Trayvor attacked him from behind as he got out to check out the name of the street he was on.
> 
> 'Zimmerman told police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.'
> 
> So far the story Zimmerman has told has been verified by other witnesses, and this would explain how someone with Trayvors build could put a big guy like Zimmerman on the ground.
> 
> Man, you libtards really truly do have racist prejudice against whites to the point of being completely irrational. Amazing.
Click to expand...


It's already legal to kill someone in self-defense.

All this law does is make it easier for the cops to avoid investigating.

Luckily, there is a public outcry over this case and it will be investigated.


----------



## Si modo

Since when is it OK to arrest someone THEN try to figure out if a crime was done?

Since when are the feds brought into a state matter simply because the feds don't like a constitutional law a state has?

Is this the USA any longer?


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Since when is it OK to arrest someone THEN try to figure out if a crime was done?
> 
> Since when are the feds brought into a state matter simply because the feds don't like a constitutional law a state has?
> 
> Is this the USA any longer?



Normally, people get taken into custody, even temporarily, if they kill someone. The cops in this case seemed perfectly willing to NOT investigate the death of a child.

I find that unsettling.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the case - lack of presumption of guilt.
> 
> What the holy fuck?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the USA we live in today.
> 
> And what will follow is equally bizare; libtards will use this as conversation at work, tagging anyone a racist who does not immediately aggree that Zimmerman is a racist and all the ignorant dumbfucks will agree without checking out the facts because they are stupid and lazy and 'why would all the media lie about this?'
> 
> Conservatives will knuckle down and remain silent, choosing to not 'fight this particular fight' and then later tell other conservatives who will speak out to 'just shut up your hurting the cause', because that is what conservatives do.
> 
> Zimmerman is going to wind up in prison and likely a suicide within a few years because that is how libtards want to treat 'vigilantes', i.e. anyone who would dare defend themselves against criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bowie, the young guy had no criminal record. Zimmerman was an alleged "neighborhood watch" guy that ignored advice from emergency personnel and killed an unarmed victim after tracking him down. You don't see murder charges in this scenario? I see heavy charges for the kids who threw gas on the other kid & set him on fire, AND possibly bias charges.
Click to expand...


Dont know why you are saying Zimmerman was an alledged neighborhood watch guy; why else would he be on the phone to 911? He wanted the cops to know he was about to kill the kid?

We do know that Zimmerman was wounded to the back of the head, now how do you think that happened? Could it be he was attacked from behind like he said? And why doesnt CNN and all the other Lame Stream Media give us that little detail? Why do they use old pics of Trayvon when he was a little kid? To make idiots think that is what he looked like when he was killed?

The real target here is to stop the adoption of stand your ground laws, not to get justice for Trayvon, since far more black teens die everyday from gang related shit and the media couldnt care less.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is it OK to arrest someone THEN try to figure out if a crime was done?
> 
> Since when are the feds brought into a state matter simply because the feds don't like a constitutional law a state has?
> 
> Is this the USA any longer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normally, people get taken into custody, even temporarily, if they kill someone. The cops in this case seemed perfectly willing to NOT investigate the death of a child.
> 
> I find that unsettling.
Click to expand...


You are a stupid fucktard, so why should anyone give a rats ass what you find unsettling?


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no evidence that this kid was trying to rob/rape/kill people.
> 
> Negged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good God, you are stupid.
> 
> The repeal of 'stand your ground' laws are what the Lame Ass Media are really going for, and if that gets repealed, then yes, a lot of rapes, robberies and murders will be committed because people were hesitant to protect themselves or other innocent people.
> 
> And as to Trayvors activities, walking around in the rain looking into peoples homes would often be considered a prelude to robbing the home later by another criminal or perhaps himself. So, yes, there is evidence it could have been a robbery being planned. How do you know it was not? Since you are accusing Zimmerman the burden of proof is on you, not on those defending Zimmermans presumption of guilt.
> 
> Also it would appear that Zimmerman claims that Trayvor attacked him from behind as he got out to check out the name of the street he was on.
> 
> 'Zimmerman told police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.'
> 
> So far the story Zimmerman has told has been verified by other witnesses, and this would explain how someone with Trayvors build could put a big guy like Zimmerman on the ground.
> 
> Man, you libtards really truly do have racist prejudice against whites to the point of being completely irrational. Amazing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's already legal to kill someone in self-defense.
> 
> All this law does is make it easier for the cops to avoid investigating.
> 
> Luckily, there is a public outcry over this case and it will be investigated.
Click to expand...

As I've said before, I think the "stand your ground" laws are retarded.

But, they are constitutional.

And, they are the law in Florida.

This is a state matter.  The DOJ is not federal tool to change STATE legislation.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good God, you are stupid.
> 
> The repeal of 'stand your ground' laws are what the Lame Ass Media are really going for, and if that gets repealed, then yes, a lot of rapes, robberies and murders will be committed because people were hesitant to protect themselves or other innocent people.
> 
> And as to Trayvors activities, walking around in the rain looking into peoples homes would often be considered a prelude to robbing the home later by another criminal or perhaps himself. So, yes, there is evidence it could have been a robbery being planned. How do you know it was not? Since you are accusing Zimmerman the burden of proof is on you, not on those defending Zimmermans presumption of guilt.
> 
> Also it would appear that Zimmerman claims that Trayvor attacked him from behind as he got out to check out the name of the street he was on.
> 
> 'Zimmerman told police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.'
> 
> So far the story Zimmerman has told has been verified by other witnesses, and this would explain how someone with Trayvors build could put a big guy like Zimmerman on the ground.
> 
> Man, you libtards really truly do have racist prejudice against whites to the point of being completely irrational. Amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's already legal to kill someone in self-defense.
> 
> All this law does is make it easier for the cops to avoid investigating.
> 
> Luckily, there is a public outcry over this case and it will be investigated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I've said before, I think the "stand your ground" laws are retarded.
> 
> But, they are constitutional.
> 
> And, they are the law in Florida.
> 
> This is a state matter.  The DOJ is not federal tool to change STATE legislation.
Click to expand...

I don't know if they are constitutional or not.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> Since when is it OK to arrest someone THEN try to figure out if a crime was done?
> 
> Since when are the feds brought into a state matter simply because the feds don't like a constitutional law a state has?
> 
> Is this the USA any longer?



Its not the USA you fondly recall.

We have a duopoly political system that runs this nation for the benfit of Wall Street Banks, and in a year or two, when the banks crash due to the reckless use of Credit Default Swaps and other derivitive contracts to European banks that will be covered by FDIC insurance, they want to make damn sure they have their puppets in charge to make the American tax payer foot the bill like they have done in Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and tried to do in Iceland.

We live in a kleptocracy run by banks from behind the scenes.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's already legal to kill someone in self-defense.
> 
> All this law does is make it easier for the cops to avoid investigating.
> 
> Luckily, there is a public outcry over this case and it will be investigated.
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said before, I think the "stand your ground" laws are retarded.
> 
> But, they are constitutional.
> 
> And, they are the law in Florida.
> 
> This is a state matter.  The DOJ is not federal tool to change STATE legislation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if they are constitutional or not.
Click to expand...


Because you are a stupid fucktard.

If you thought they were constitutional I would have to revisit the matter and completley reconsider. Agreement by you is prima facie evidence of being wrong.


----------



## Ravi

So, it was actually the family that asked the FBI to investigate.



> The family of Trayvon Martin is asking the FBI to get involved in the investigation of the killing of the unarmed 17-year-old Florida high school student, who was shot last month by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman outside his stepmother's home.



And this is interesting:



> But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.
> 
> "When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.
> 
> But Zimmerman was not tested.
> 
> Martin's family is now calling on the FBI to take over what they say is a botched investigation.



Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News


----------



## JimBowie1958

Can any libtards here tell me how bad a person has to beat you before using deadly force is justified?

If the beater draws blood? 

Knocks you to the ground? 

Knocks you on your back? 

Knocks you unconscious? 

NEVER?

Really want to hear what the tipping point is in your opinion, except for Ravi who is a stupid fucktard and I could not possibly care less what he/she/it tries to think.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's already legal to kill someone in self-defense.
> 
> All this law does is make it easier for the cops to avoid investigating.
> 
> Luckily, there is a public outcry over this case and it will be investigated.
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said before, I think the "stand your ground" laws are retarded.
> 
> But, they are constitutional.
> 
> And, they are the law in Florida.
> 
> This is a state matter.  The DOJ is not federal tool to change STATE legislation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if they are constitutional or not.
Click to expand...

That's fine; I don't either.  But right now, they are the law.  

If there is a constitutional question about the 'stand your ground' laws, then those laws need to be challenged in the SCOTUS.  That's not the DOJ's jusridiction nor is it that of the Florida Representative or the Black Caucus - they need to take it to the SCOTUS if they believe the 'stand your ground" laws are unconstitutional.

If the state calls in the feds for assistance, that is fine and it happens quite often.  But, they are not a tool to be used for political points.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> So, it was actually the family that asked the FBI to investigate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of Trayvon Martin is asking the FBI to get involved in the investigation of the killing of the unarmed 17-year-old Florida high school student, who was shot last month by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman outside his stepmother's home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.
> 
> "When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.
> 
> But Zimmerman was not tested.
> 
> Martin's family is now calling on the FBI to take over what they say is a botched investigation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News
Click to expand...


Yeah, because families of killed criminals NEVER think that their little perp is guilty. It can only be that this white man was a racist bent on killing any black man that would walk in the rain snooping into peoples houses and all. Obvious racism.

And of course, the cops would not test Zimmerman, not because he was not giving any other indication of being under the effects of drugs, but it obviously MUST be that they are also a bunch of conniving racists who want all black teens to be shot by white men carrying guns.

Stupid fucktard.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> So, it was actually the family that asked the FBI to investigate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of Trayvon Martin is asking the FBI to get involved in the investigation of the killing of the unarmed 17-year-old Florida high school student, who was shot last month by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman outside his stepmother's home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.
> 
> "When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.
> 
> But Zimmerman was not tested.
> 
> Martin's family is now calling on the FBI to take over what they say is a botched investigation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News
Click to expand...

Thanks.  That's useful.

(Funny, I listened to part of this tape and thought he sounded a bit fucked up, too.  Not too much, but a bit.  But, I've heard several sober folks sound fucked up, too.)


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Zimmerman was following the VICTIM.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not against any law to follow someone (unless there is a court order not to).
> 
> There IS law about clobbering someone over the head because they follow you.  You're not allowed to do that, FYI.  Assault.
> 
> Of course, I don't know, nor do you, if that is or is not the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Witness saw Zimmerman in a struggle and knocked to the ground. We know that Zimmerman suffered a wound to the back of his head and to his face and that he had grass covering his back. Trayvor, for all the talk about him being this wimpy little kid, sure was defending himslef quite well against ahfty 28 year old.
> 
> Why do you think the media is using pictures of him much younger in their news stories? The pic on CNN is way out of date and Trayvons nose was a lot wider and thicker in onelater photo I have seen with him wearing a hoodie.
> 
> Obviously the media want to lynch Zimmerman for daring to defend himself, and want to use him as the Poster Boy for repeal of stand your ground laws or at least stop the further doption of those laws by other states.
> 
> Gun rights people should get off the stick and make the world know what really happened.
Click to expand...



He looks like a 17 year old in the pictures I have seen; and *Zimmerman is no poster boy for gun owners in the US. *I know the vast majority do act as "vigilantes". Nor do vigilantes confine themselves to the use of firearms. The 2nd Amendment trumps those that despise guns. I do because two friends of mine have been killed by them.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> I don't know if they are constitutional or not.


That's fine; I don't either.  But right now, they are the law.  [/quote]

They are constitutional until SCOTUS declares them to not be constitutional.



Si modo said:


> If there is a constitutional question about the 'stand your ground' laws, then those laws need to be challenged in the SCOTUS.  That's not the DOJ's jusridiction nor is it that of the Florida Representative or the Black Caucus - they need to take it to the SCOTUS if they believe the 'stand your ground" laws are unconstitutional.
> 
> If the state calls in the feds for assistance, that is fine and it happens quite often.  But, they are not a tool to be used for political points.



But you are a rational person.

To a leftwing nutbag like Ravi, evidence and law is bullshit that gets in the way of what they think is justice.

And too many conservatives are too cowardly to stop them.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not against any law to follow someone (unless there is a court order not to).
> 
> There IS law about clobbering someone over the head because they follow you.  You're not allowed to do that, FYI.  Assault.
> 
> Of course, I don't know, nor do you, if that is or is not the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Witness saw Zimmerman in a struggle and knocked to the ground. We know that Zimmerman suffered a wound to the back of his head and to his face and that he had grass covering his back. Trayvor, for all the talk about him being this wimpy little kid, sure was defending himslef quite well against ahfty 28 year old.
> 
> Why do you think the media is using pictures of him much younger in their news stories? The pic on CNN is way out of date and Trayvons nose was a lot wider and thicker in onelater photo I have seen with him wearing a hoodie.
> 
> Obviously the media want to lynch Zimmerman for daring to defend himself, and want to use him as the Poster Boy for repeal of stand your ground laws or at least stop the further doption of those laws by other states.
> 
> Gun rights people should get off the stick and make the world know what really happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He looks like a 17 year old in the pictures I have seen; and *Zimmerman is no poster boy for gun owners in the US. *I know the vast majority do act as "vigilantes". Nor do vigilantes confine themselves to the use of firearms. The 2nd Amendment trumps those that despise guns. I do because two friends of mine have been killed by them.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of gun owners act as vigilantes?



I will bet money that you have zero to back that claim up.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Mods


Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.

Zimmerman is hispanic.

I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.

Thank you.


----------



## Ravi

Two Thumbs said:


> Mods
> 
> 
> Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.
> 
> Zimmerman is hispanic.
> 
> I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.
> 
> Thank you.



Hispanics aren't white?


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Witness saw Zimmerman in a struggle and knocked to the ground. We know that Zimmerman suffered a wound to the back of his head and to his face and that he had grass covering his back. Trayvor, for all the talk about him being this wimpy little kid, sure was defending himslef quite well against ahfty 28 year old.
> 
> Why do you think the media is using pictures of him much younger in their news stories? The pic on CNN is way out of date and Trayvons nose was a lot wider and thicker in onelater photo I have seen with him wearing a hoodie.
> 
> Obviously the media want to lynch Zimmerman for daring to defend himself, and want to use him as the Poster Boy for repeal of stand your ground laws or at least stop the further doption of those laws by other states.
> 
> Gun rights people should get off the stick and make the world know what really happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He looks like a 17 year old in the pictures I have seen; and *Zimmerman is no poster boy for gun owners in the US. *I know the vast majority do NOT act as "vigilantes". *Nor do vigilantes confine themselves to the use of firearms. *The 2nd Amendment trumps those that despise guns. I do because two friends of mine have been killed by them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The vast majority of gun owners act as vigilantes?
> 
> 
> 
> I will bet money that you have zero to back that claim up.
Click to expand...



I LEFT OUT NOT. You are correct, there is NOTHING to indicate anything but a tiny percentage of Americans ARE vigilantes, and some may use weapons other than firearms, as I wrote.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> He looks like a 17 year old in the pictures I have seen; and *Zimmerman is no poster boy for gun owners in the US. *I know the vast majority do NOT act as "vigilantes". *Nor do vigilantes confine themselves to the use of firearms. *The 2nd Amendment trumps those that despise guns. I do because two friends of mine have been killed by them.
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of gun owners act as vigilantes?
> 
> 
> 
> I will bet money that you have zero to back that claim up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I LEFT OUT NOT. You are correct, there is NOTHING to indicate anything but a tiny percentage of Americans ARE vigilantes, and some may use weapons other than firearms, as I wrote.
Click to expand...


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> He looks like a 17 year old in the pictures I have seen;



Then which ones have you seen? You think that CNN pic looks like a 17 year old?



Peach said:


> and *Zimmerman is no poster boy for gun owners in the US. *



Why? My assertion is that the PRESS will use him as the poster boy for what is bad about stand your ground laws.



Peach said:


> I know the vast majority do act as "vigilantes".



And how in God's Sweet Name do you think you know that? 



Peach said:


> Nor do vigilantes confine themselves to the use of firearms. The 2nd Amendment trumps those that despise guns. I do because two friends of mine have been killed by them.



You sound as though you would prefer there to be no second amendment.

And, once again, how bad does a person have to be beaten before deadly force is justifiable?

Edit: I got a phone call and saw your explanation only afterwards. Glad to know you dont assume most gun carriers are not vigilantes.


----------



## Ravi

> The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin last month, called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting.
> 
> This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.
> 
> In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons  all of whom were black  in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
> 
> He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars. He asked dispatchers to take his complaint anonymously, but provided his name and phone number.





George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mods
> 
> 
> Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.
> 
> Zimmerman is hispanic.
> 
> I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
Click to expand...


Hispanics are white if they kill blacks, obviously, and not white if the press needs to present them as victims of whites.

You are too stupid to know that, but I thought I would try to essplain it to you anyway.


----------



## NLT

Sallow said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> You try that sort of thing in the _State_ of Texas and let me know how it turns out for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Texans are a strange breed. They don't consider themselves Americans..they just like our mo*ney.
Click to expand...


Since alot of it is made here, we sure do like it. Give us a good reason and we will print our own and secede.


----------



## Immanuel

Sallow said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the assumption of innocence?
> 
> fyi, when the cops got there, Zimmerman had a bloody nose.
> 
> and if the cops thought for one moment that he had murdered the kid, they would have cuffed him there.
> 
> 
> but since people scream racism at the drop of the hat, the Feds are now involved and Zimmerman will be found guilty no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They also found an innocent dead black kid. Who did nothing. Who had no record. They also had a tape of Zimmerman saying he was following the innocent kid. And..it seems Zimmerman, who was armed, confronted a kid, who was unarmed and who had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS..then SHOT HIM.
> 
> Why he isn't in jail..is beyond any sort of logic at all.
Click to expand...


So much for innocent until proven guilty.

You automatically assume the kid was "innocent" and that Zimmerman went after him for no reason whatsoever.  What is it, Zimmerman must be a right wing loon because he had a gun meaning he believes in the second amendment right to bear arms obviously meaning he is a right wing loon, and he targeted the kid because... of the color of his skin?  I suppose next you guys will tell us you know he was also a member of the KKK and highly ranked in the Republican Party.

Let the police investigate this incident and the District Attorney decide if there should be charges filed.  You guys have already tried and convicted him based on the presence of that scumbag Sharpton. 

Immie


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, *we don't presume guilt.*  They are investigating, though, as they should.



A lot of people seem to be presuming that the kid was guilty of ... _something_. 

I asked a ways back on the thread



Emma said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening*.   Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their  ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no  obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would  be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What crime was Trayvon committing?*
Click to expand...


I don't believe that was ever answered; maybe I missed it.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Ravi said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mods
> 
> 
> Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.
> 
> Zimmerman is hispanic.
> 
> I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
Click to expand...


Nice race bait.


----------



## Two Thumbs

Oh, and he's not a member of any official crime watch organisation.


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> He looks like a 17 year old in the pictures I have seen;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then which ones have you seen? You think that CNN pic looks like a 17 year old?
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> and *Zimmerman is no poster boy for gun owners in the US. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? My assertion is that the PRESS will use him as the poster boy for what is bad about stand your ground laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the vast majority do act as "vigilantes".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how in God's Sweet Name do you think you know that?
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nor do vigilantes confine themselves to the use of firearms. The 2nd Amendment trumps those that despise guns. I do because two friends of mine have been killed by them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound as though you would prefer there to be no second amendment.
> 
> And, once again, how bad does a person have to be beaten before deadly force is justifiable?
> 
> Edit: I got a phone call and saw your explanation only afterwards. Glad to know you dont assume most gun carriers are not vigilantes.
Click to expand...



As for vigilantes, I CORRECTED my first post. NO, I DO NOT WISH TO DISPENSE WITH ANY AMENDMENTS. How Zimmerman sustained his injuries, is yet unknown. But the victim's right of self defense is being brushed aside. There is evidence the killer was IN HIS vehicle & got out to chase the teenager walking. A clue as to Zimmerman's state of mind.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin last month, called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting.
> 
> This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.
> 
> In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons  all of whom were black  in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
> 
> He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars. He asked dispatchers to take his complaint anonymously, but provided his name and phone number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
Click to expand...


Yeah, because as we all know racist vigilantes are well known to regularly call 911 and report crimes.

Stupid fucktard.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, it was actually the family that asked the FBI to investigate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of Trayvon Martin is asking the FBI to get involved in the investigation of the killing of the unarmed 17-year-old Florida high school student, who was shot last month by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman outside his stepmother's home.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.
> 
> "When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.
> 
> But Zimmerman was not tested.
> 
> Martin's family is now calling on the FBI to take over what they say is a botched investigation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yeah, because families of killed criminals NEVER think that their little perp is guilty. It can only be that this white man was a racist bent on killing any black man that would walk in the rain snooping into peoples houses and all.* Obvious racism.
> 
> And of course, the cops would not test Zimmerman, not because he was not giving any other indication of being under the effects of drugs, but it obviously MUST be that they are also a bunch of conniving racists who want all black teens to be shot by white men carrying guns.
> 
> Stupid fucktard.
Click to expand...


Ok, I'll ask you. What crime was Martin committing when Zimmerman decided to go after him and take the law into his own hands? What proof do you have Martin was "snooping into people's homes" ?


----------



## NLT

Unkotare said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel compelled to denigrate _any_ state in the Union you can just get the fuck out of my country right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime you feel you got the stones to make me leave, shit lover, come on down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now you're a tough-guy, Swallow? That's hilarious. But you shouldn't need me to inflict pain and humiliation on you (no matter how much fun that would be) to reach the conclusion that if you have disdain for our UNION you should find somewhere else to live. Do you lack the courage of your convictions? NY is not a nation unto itself. If you don't want to be an AMERICAN, then get the fuck out of AMERICA. Even a moron like you should be able to understand that much.
Click to expand...


He is a typical ahole from NYC. What do you expect from the the State that produced  Snooki and her fellow guidos. Human garbage thats what.


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin last month, called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting.
> 
> This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.
> 
> In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons  all of whom were black  in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
> 
> He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars. He asked dispatchers to take his complaint anonymously, but provided his name and phone number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, because as we all know racist vigilantes are well known to regularly call 911 and report crimes.
> 
> Stupid fucktard.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman appears easily irritated. Calling 911 about open garage doors & kids playing outside?


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> 
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And some prowler trying to grab your gun would be reasonable belief among the sane.
> 
> But not for a libtard, apparently.
> 
> Cant wait to see what the Holder DoJ will do about this.
> 
> Anyone care to bet this guy gets tried in federal court?
Click to expand...

Your use of the word "libtard" totally invalidates any point you might have had in that entire post.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> As for vigilantes, I CORRECTED my first post. NO, I DO NOT WISH TO DISPENSE WITH ANY AMENDMENTS.



I saw that and noted it in my post.



Peach said:


> How Zimmerman sustained his injuries, is yet unknown.



Unknown? You mean there is no forensic evidence telling us how it happened? 

How about the witness who saw Zimmerman knocked to the ground on his back?

Do you think Zimmerman just wounded himself and somehow arranged for the witness to see him prone on the ground?



Peach said:


> But the victim's right of self defense is being brushed aside.



What? That is what all the protests are about: his right to not be attacked and to be protected by the law, and the evidence shows he did defend himself. Who intitated the attack is the only ral question, and I thinnk the wound to the back of Zimmermans head shows a likely indicator of him telling the truth that Trayvon attcked him from behind.



Peach said:


> There is evidence the killer was IN HIS vehicle & got out to chase the teenager walking.



What evidence is that? Zimmerman says he got out to check the name on a street sign, why do you suppose otherwise? If Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon then how did Trayvon wound Zimmerman in the back of the head?



Peach said:


> A clue as to Zimmerman's state of mind.



Or a clue to your state of mind and prejudice against 'vigilantes'.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin last month, called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting.
> 
> This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.
> 
> In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons  all of whom were black  in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
> 
> He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars. He asked dispatchers to take his complaint anonymously, but provided his name and phone number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
Click to expand...


*Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.*

George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel

He's a Nut Case. If given the opportunity, He will Kill Again.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005.  As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some prowler trying to grab your gun would be reasonable belief among the sane.
> 
> But not for a libtard, apparently.
> 
> Cant wait to see what the Holder DoJ will do about this.
> 
> Anyone care to bet this guy gets tried in federal court?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your use of the word "libtard" totally invalidates any point you might have had in that entire post.
Click to expand...


Why? 

Does use of 'rightwing gun nut' invalidate libtard posts?


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
Click to expand...

True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Intense said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin last month, called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting.
> 
> This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.
> 
> In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons  all of whom were black  in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
> 
> He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars. He asked dispatchers to take his complaint anonymously, but provided his name and phone number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.*
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> He's a Nut Case. If given the opportunity, He will Kill Again.
Click to expand...


Because only serial killers would call the cops 46 times, lolol.

Do you really know how to think?

Calling the cops is evidence of criminal intent? Really?

ROFLMAO!


----------



## Peach

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, it was actually the family that asked the FBI to investigate.
> 
> And this is interesting:
> 
> Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yeah, because families of killed criminals NEVER think that their little perp is guilty. It can only be that this white man was a racist bent on killing any black man that would walk in the rain snooping into peoples houses and all.* Obvious racism.
> 
> And of course, the cops would not test Zimmerman, not because he was not giving any other indication of being under the effects of drugs, but it obviously MUST be that they are also a bunch of conniving racists who want all black teens to be shot by white men carrying guns.
> 
> Stupid fucktard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, I'll ask you. What crime was Martin committing when Zimmerman decided to go after him and take the law into his own hands? What proof do you have Martin was "snooping into people's homes" ?
Click to expand...


Yes, how is the victim become a "perp"?


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.
Click to expand...

Why is that?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.
Click to expand...


Why?

Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to?


----------



## OldUSAFSniper

Sallow said:


> When police came to the scene, Zimmerman dropped his weapon and told them he shot Martin in self defense. He has not been charged. Sanford police did not press charges against Zimmerman, telling the teens family that he had a squeaky clean record. He is a licensed gun owner studying criminal justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin's Murder: Was George Zimmerman's Motive Self-Defense or Racism? | NewsFeed | TIME.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
Click to expand...


I read the news story and I have to say that I was very disappointed at the department in charge of the investigation.  I saw this morning that someone went and woke up the Attorney General and finally he is going to look into it.  Apparently, the FBI has also taken an interest in the case.  Even in the best of circumstances, murder 2nd.  I'm afraid Sallow that it would be next to impossible to prove intent.  Course, if they do, and the circumstances are as I read them, then I'm all for dead man walking.

After 20 years of being a cop, I have had the misfortune of knowing several 'wanna be's.'  I have to tell you that they scared the living crap out of me.  Guys who would literally LIVE for the day when they would get onto the department.  But of course, if you knew them even a little, they NEVER would make it.  They drove the same type of vehicle that the department drove.  They had push bumpers and spotlights on their cars.  Scanners in the vehicle.  This one guy even wore these dark blue fatigues and had a Sam Browne that he would put around his waist.  He had more guns at home than the Springfield Armory. No friends, except he would hang around all the time.

The investigating department appears to have dropped the ball here.  Let's see what the FBI comes up with.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, *we don't presume guilt.*  They are investigating, though, as they should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people seem to be presuming that the kid was guilty of ... _something_.
> 
> I asked a ways back on the thread
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening*.   Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their  ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no  obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would  be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *What crime was Trayvon committing?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe that was ever answered; maybe I missed it.
Click to expand...

Maybe he clobbered the guy.  Assault is a crime.


----------



## Peach

How did


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, it was actually the family that asked the FBI to investigate.
> 
> And this is interesting:
> 
> Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yeah, because families of killed criminals NEVER think that their little perp is guilty. It can only be that this white man was a racist bent on killing any black man that would walk in the rain snooping into peoples houses and all.* Obvious racism.
> 
> And of course, the cops would not test Zimmerman, not because he was not giving any other indication of being under the effects of drugs, but it obviously MUST be that they are also a bunch of conniving racists who want all black teens to be shot by white men carrying guns.
> 
> Stupid fucktard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, I'll ask you. What crime was Martin committing when Zimmerman decided to go after him and take the law into his own hands? What proof do you have Martin was "snooping into people's homes" ?
Click to expand...

Ummm, what relevance does that have about anything?

It is legal to follow someone regardless of whether one thinks a crime is being committed or not.


----------



## NLT

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure he should.
> 
> Are you sure he didn't attack the man that was calling the police on him? Following him?  Harassing him?
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What we don't know is more important.
> 
> No one confronted a kid and killed him in the way you put it. More happened.  get a grip Mrs. Kravitz.
> 
> *you've been mentioning these supposed kids ( in 2004) of yours for so long, they must be in middle age by now.*
> you are a fraud
Click to expand...


I thougt Ravi aborted all her kids?


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And some prowler trying to grab your gun would be reasonable belief among the sane.
> 
> But not for a libtard, apparently.
> 
> Cant wait to see what the Holder DoJ will do about this.
> 
> Anyone care to bet this guy gets tried in federal court?
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word "libtard" totally invalidates any point you might have had in that entire post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Does use of 'rightwing gun nut' invalidate libtard posts?
Click to expand...

And I said that ... where, exactly?


----------



## Peach

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When police came to the scene, Zimmerman dropped his weapon and told them he shot Martin in self defense. He has not been charged. Sanford police did not press charges against Zimmerman, telling the teens family that he had a squeaky clean record. He is a licensed gun owner studying criminal justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin's Murder: Was George Zimmerman's Motive Self-Defense or Racism? | NewsFeed | TIME.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I read the news story and I have to say that I was very disappointed at the department in charge of the investigation.  I saw this morning that someone went and woke up the Attorney General and finally he is going to look into it.  Apparently, the FBI has also taken an interest in the case.  Even in the best of circumstances, murder 2nd.  I'm afraid Sallow that it would be next to impossible to prove intent.  Course, if they do, and the circumstances are as I read them, then I'm all for dead man walking.
> 
> After 20 years of being a cop, I have had the misfortune of knowing several 'wanna be's.'  I have to tell you that they scared the living crap out of me.  Guys who would literally LIVE for the day when they would get onto the department.  But of course, if you knew them even a little, they NEVER would make it.  They drove the same type of vehicle that the department drove.  They had push bumpers and spotlights on their cars.  Scanners in the vehicle.  This one guy even wore these dark blue fatigues and had a Sam Browne that he would put around his waist.  He had more guns at home than the Springfield Armory. No friends, except he would hang around all the time.
> 
> The investigating department appears to have dropped the ball here.  Let's see what the FBI comes up with.
Click to expand...



FDLE is investigating also. Thank you for law enforcement insight.


----------



## manifold

Ravi said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mods
> 
> 
> Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.
> 
> Zimmerman is hispanic.
> 
> I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
Click to expand...


In a reasonable demographic sense they are not white.

Of course reasonableness only suits you when it suits you.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is that?
Click to expand...

I would think it would tend to make a jury question just how much the shooter had to do with instigating the fight that ended with what he wants to claim as a shooting in self defense.

I'm not saying it's impossible for a jury to acquit him, I'm saying it just makes it far more difficult.


----------



## Si modo

manifold said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mods
> 
> 
> Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.
> 
> Zimmerman is hispanic.
> 
> I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a reasonable demographic sense they are not white.
> 
> Of course reasonableness only suits you when it suits you.
Click to expand...

Hispanics aren't white when talking about immigration laws.  Then they CAN be white, depending.


----------



## Intense

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When police came to the scene, Zimmerman dropped his weapon and told them he shot Martin in self defense. He has not been charged. Sanford police did not press charges against Zimmerman, telling the teens family that he had a squeaky clean record. He is a licensed gun owner studying criminal justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin's Murder: Was George Zimmerman's Motive Self-Defense or Racism? | NewsFeed | TIME.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I read the news story and I have to say that I was very disappointed at the department in charge of the investigation.  I saw this morning that someone went and woke up the Attorney General and finally he is going to look into it.  Apparently, the FBI has also taken an interest in the case.  Even in the best of circumstances, murder 2nd.  I'm afraid Sallow that it would be next to impossible to prove intent.  Course, if they do, and the circumstances are as I read them, then I'm all for dead man walking.
> 
> After 20 years of being a cop, I have had the misfortune of knowing several 'wanna be's.'  I have to tell you that they scared the living crap out of me.  Guys who would literally LIVE for the day when they would get onto the department.  But of course, if you knew them even a little, they NEVER would make it.  They drove the same type of vehicle that the department drove.  They had push bumpers and spotlights on their cars.  Scanners in the vehicle.  This one guy even wore these dark blue fatigues and had a Sam Browne that he would put around his waist.  He had more guns at home than the Springfield Armory. No friends, except he would hang around all the time.
> 
> The investigating department appears to have dropped the ball here.  Let's see what the FBI comes up with.
Click to expand...


They did drop the ball on this investigation. The Guy is a Loon. It would be interesting to check into the tapes at the Convenience Store too, if it's not too late, and interview the Clerk about the Kid's behavior. My bet is the Kid had no issues other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. More people that have been hassled by the Shooter, need to come forward.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Emma said:


> Ok, I'll ask you.



Why do you liberals think you are the only ones that have the right to ask questions?

Why dont you answer mine? 

How badly does a person have to be beaten before they can use deadly force?



Emma said:


> What crime was Martin committing when Zimmerman decided to go after him and take the law into his own hands?



None. But his behavior was suspicious and Zimmerman had every right to watch the guy wandering around in the rain snooping into homes, from his perspective.



Emma said:


> What proof do you have Martin was "snooping into people's homes" ?



Zimmermans report. Do you think Zimmerman called 911 to alert them to a situation where he was about to kill a man in cold blood?

I do not think Trayvon was involved in committing a crime, but it would not surprise me. Tow fo the most common situations I have read of where criminals case places for robbery is to visit on some legal pretext like being a customer or going to a party at the place targetted, or to walk around in inclimate weather because no one typically will bother to stay out in the rain and watch people doing things.

But in any case, Zimmerman had the right to walk anywhere he damend well wanted and if he did follow Trayvon that would not give Trayvon the righ to attack Zimmerman, which apparently what happened given the evidence of wounds to the back of Zimmermans head and witness account that he was knocked on his back to the ground.

Trayvon could have thought that Zimmerman was about to rob him, who knows?

The question here is not Trayvons intent, but who started the altercation and did Zimmerman have justifiable grounds to think his life was in danger.

I trust the cops to know the eivdence more fairly than the media will report it so I am more inclined to take their workd for it.

But you WANT this to be about white-on-black racism because libtrards revel in that shit.


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's *exactly* the assumption I made.


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would think it would tend to make a jury question just how much the shooter had to do with instigating the fight that ended with what he wants to claim as a shooting in self defense.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible for a jury to acquit him, I'm saying it just makes it far more difficult.
Click to expand...

The alleged fight/physical altercation happened a good amount of time AFTER Zimmerman left his car.


----------



## JimBowie1958

manifold said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mods
> 
> 
> Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.
> 
> Zimmerman is hispanic.
> 
> I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a reasonable demographic sense they are not white.
Click to expand...


I disagree. More than half of hispanics self-identify as white, the rest choose no race at all.

What about speaking Spanish makes one incapable of being white?

I have known plenty of hispanics that were lilly white, whiter than most 'white' Americans.



manifold said:


> Of course reasonableness only suits you when it suits you.



That is true. Ravi is a stupid fucktard.


----------



## Si modo

NLT said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bare facts as we know them: The kid was walking through the neighborhood and followed by a man that later killed him. No evidence of a weapon.
> 
> My kids have walked through the neighborhood acting stupid and if someone confronted them and then killed them I'd be in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What we don't know is more important.
> 
> No one confronted a kid and killed him in the way you put it. More happened.  get a grip Mrs. Kravitz.
> 
> *you've been mentioning these supposed kids ( in 2004) of yours for so long, they must be in middle age by now.*
> you are a fraud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thougt Ravi aborted all her kids?
Click to expand...

Something is wrong with you.


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for vigilantes, I CORRECTED my first post. NO, I DO NOT WISH TO DISPENSE WITH ANY AMENDMENTS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw that and noted it in my post.
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> How Zimmerman sustained his injuries, is yet unknown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unknown? You mean there is no forensic evidence telling us how it happened?
> 
> How about the witness who saw Zimmerman knocked to the ground on his back?
> 
> Do you think Zimmerman just wounded himself and somehow arranged for the witness to see him prone on the ground?
> 
> 
> 
> What? That is what all the protests are about: his right to not be attacked and to be protected by the law, and the evidence shows he did defend himself. Who intitated the attack is the only ral question, and I thinnk the wound to the back of Zimmermans head shows a likely indicator of him telling the truth that Trayvon attcked him from behind.
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is evidence the killer was IN HIS vehicle & got out to chase the teenager walking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What evidence is that? Zimmerman says he got out to check the name on a street sign, why do you suppose otherwise? If Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon then how did Trayvon wound Zimmerman in the back of the head?
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> A clue as to Zimmerman's state of mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or a clue to your state of mind and prejudice against 'vigilantes'.
Click to expand...



A clue as to ever changing media reports. I see FDLE as the primary source for further investigation, don't like the fact the FBI has been dragged in at this point.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> I would think it would tend to make a jury question just how much the shooter had to do with instigating the fight that ended with what he wants to claim as a shooting in self defense.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible for a jury to acquit him, I'm saying it just makes it far more difficult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The alleged fight/physical altercation happened a good amount of time AFTER Zimmerman left his car.
Click to expand...

True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.

It could break either way depending on the jury.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Intense said:


> OldUSAFSniper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF? Many murderers have had a "squeaky clean record". That doesn't change the crime.
> 
> This fuck should have been charged.
> 
> This should be a death penalty case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read the news story and I have to say that I was very disappointed at the department in charge of the investigation.  I saw this morning that someone went and woke up the Attorney General and finally he is going to look into it.  Apparently, the FBI has also taken an interest in the case.  Even in the best of circumstances, murder 2nd.  I'm afraid Sallow that it would be next to impossible to prove intent.  Course, if they do, and the circumstances are as I read them, then I'm all for dead man walking.
> 
> After 20 years of being a cop, I have had the misfortune of knowing several 'wanna be's.'  I have to tell you that they scared the living crap out of me.  Guys who would literally LIVE for the day when they would get onto the department.  But of course, if you knew them even a little, they NEVER would make it.  They drove the same type of vehicle that the department drove.  They had push bumpers and spotlights on their cars.  Scanners in the vehicle.  This one guy even wore these dark blue fatigues and had a Sam Browne that he would put around his waist.  He had more guns at home than the Springfield Armory. No friends, except he would hang around all the time.
> 
> The investigating department appears to have dropped the ball here.  Let's see what the FBI comes up with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did drop the ball on this investigation. The Guy is a Loon. .
Click to expand...


No, you are a loon. Zimmerman had been knocked to the ground from behind by that 17 year old 'child', was bleeding from the back of the head and his face.

How bad does a person have to beat another before deadly force is justifiable?

I doubt you will answer, but for the record....


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think it would tend to make a jury question just how much the shooter had to do with instigating the fight that ended with what he wants to claim as a shooting in self defense.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible for a jury to acquit him, I'm saying it just makes it far more difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> The alleged fight/physical altercation happened a good amount of time AFTER Zimmerman left his car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
> 
> It could break either way depending on the jury.
Click to expand...

  Well, a lot of folks who might end up slugging me seem totally innocuous just minutes before.  But, we do not know.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think it would tend to make a jury question just how much the shooter had to do with instigating the fight that ended with what he wants to claim as a shooting in self defense.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible for a jury to acquit him, I'm saying it just makes it far more difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> The alleged fight/physical altercation happened a good amount of time AFTER Zimmerman left his car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
Click to expand...


Where is the evidence that Zimmerman chased Trayvon?

You like to just pull shit out of your ass and fling it?


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The alleged fight/physical altercation happened a good amount of time AFTER Zimmerman left his car.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the evidence that Zimmerman chased Trayvon?
> 
> You like to just pull shit out of your ass and fling it?
Click to expand...

The story.  Read it.


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think it would tend to make a jury question just how much the shooter had to do with instigating the fight that ended with what he wants to claim as a shooting in self defense.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible for a jury to acquit him, I'm saying it just makes it far more difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> The alleged fight/physical altercation happened a good amount of time AFTER Zimmerman left his car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
> 
> It could break either way depending on the jury.
Click to expand...

Ummm, what chase are you talking about?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that's *exactly* the assumption I made.
Click to expand...


Well instead of being a smart ass, try explaining why a law abiding citizen has no right to follow another person in a public place?

Do you assume that said following gives the followed the right to attack the follower?


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The alleged fight/physical altercation happened a good amount of time AFTER Zimmerman left his car.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
> 
> It could break either way depending on the jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummm, what chase are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Chased, followed ... if I'm the state, I'm calling it a chase.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the evidence that Zimmerman chased Trayvon?
> 
> You like to just pull shit out of your ass and fling it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The story.  Read it.
Click to expand...


Bullshit.

The stories are all over the place.

The last 911 call was Zimmeran being told to not follow Trayvon and he seemed to acknowlege it.

Why do you presume that Zimmerman still not only still followed him but also 'chased' him?

Or are you just picking and choosing from inacurate media accounts to support your case?


----------



## Ravi

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin last month, called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting.
> 
> This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.
> 
> In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons  all of whom were black  in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
> 
> He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars. He asked dispatchers to take his complaint anonymously, but provided his name and phone number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, because as we all know racist vigilantes are well known to regularly call 911 and report crimes.
> 
> Stupid fucktard.
Click to expand...


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
> 
> It could break either way depending on the jury.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm, what chase are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chased, followed ... if I'm the state, I'm calling it a chase.
Click to expand...


Why? Because you want  this guy to be found guilty?


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's *exactly* the assumption I made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well instead of being a smart ass, try explaining why a law abiding citizen has no right to follow another person in a public place?
> 
> Do you assume that said following gives the followed the right to attack the follower?
Click to expand...

I never said either of those things.  I never even implied either of those things.

Any other unfounded assumptions you care to toss out there?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, because as we all know racist vigilantes are well known to regularly call 911 and report crimes.
> 
> Stupid fucktard.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Oh no!

You have invoked the Messiah!

Lol, well that proives me wrong fer sher.


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm, what chase are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> Chased, followed ... if I'm the state, I'm calling it a chase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? Because you want  this guy to be found guilty?
Click to expand...

It's called playing devil's advocate.

Google it.


----------



## Ravi

Intense said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin last month, called 911 dozens of times in the months that led to the fatal shooting.
> 
> This afternoon six of the calls made by George Zimmerman were released by theSeminole County Sheriff's Office.
> 
> In four of the recordings Zimmerman called police to report "suspicious" persons  all of whom were black  in or near the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
> 
> He called once to report his neighbor's open garage door. And in the sixth call, Zimmerman reports children are "habitually" playing in the street at dusk and running in front of cars. He asked dispatchers to take his complaint anonymously, but provided his name and phone number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.*
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> He's a Nut Case. If given the opportunity, He will Kill Again.
Click to expand...

And he didn't even call 911 this time, he called the non-emergency number. This whole thing stinks.


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense.
> 
> It could break either way depending on the jury.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm, what chase are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chased, followed ... if I'm the state, I'm calling it a chase.
Click to expand...

Then you wouldn't want anyone like me on the jury.  I am suspicious of folks who have to resort to trickery to make a point.  The point itself must be weak if they do.


----------



## Ravi

manifold said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mods
> 
> 
> Would you change the title of this thread to an honest one please.
> 
> Zimmerman is hispanic.
> 
> I know it would kill the constant race baiting bullshit, but a little honesty helps in the long run.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a reasonable demographic sense they are not white.
> 
> Of course reasonableness only suits you when it suits you.
Click to expand...

Actually, I do believe on the census you can identify yourself as hispanic white or hispanic non-white.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's *exactly* the assumption I made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well instead of being a smart ass, try explaining why a law abiding citizen has no right to follow another person in a public place?
> 
> Do you assume that said following gives the followed the right to attack the follower?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said either of those things.  I never even implied either of those things.
> 
> Any other unfounded assumptions you care to toss out there?
Click to expand...


You said, "True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense."

How is that relevant if said chasing is not allowed? And where is the evidence that Zimmerman ever chased him?

Let me aks you this then, do law abiding citizens have the right to disobey a 911 instruction?

Does a person who follows a suspected criminal have the right to defend themselves or do they forfeit that right by following the cirminal?

How badly must a person beat another person before the one being beaten has the right to defend themselves?


----------



## Peach

And the killer is a victim, the victim a "perp".................................................I still see the boys that threw gas on another boy as the PERPS, and the child burned as the victim.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.*
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> He's a Nut Case. If given the opportunity, He will Kill Again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he didn't even call 911 this time, he called the non-emergency number. This whole thing stinks.
Click to expand...

Often reports of suspicious persons or activity are made to non-emergency numbers.  I know a call I made to that effect, I made to the non-emergency number.  9/11 is for emergencies.


----------



## Intense

JimBowie1958 said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldUSAFSniper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the news story and I have to say that I was very disappointed at the department in charge of the investigation.  I saw this morning that someone went and woke up the Attorney General and finally he is going to look into it.  Apparently, the FBI has also taken an interest in the case.  Even in the best of circumstances, murder 2nd.  I'm afraid Sallow that it would be next to impossible to prove intent.  Course, if they do, and the circumstances are as I read them, then I'm all for dead man walking.
> 
> After 20 years of being a cop, I have had the misfortune of knowing several 'wanna be's.'  I have to tell you that they scared the living crap out of me.  Guys who would literally LIVE for the day when they would get onto the department.  But of course, if you knew them even a little, they NEVER would make it.  They drove the same type of vehicle that the department drove.  They had push bumpers and spotlights on their cars.  Scanners in the vehicle.  This one guy even wore these dark blue fatigues and had a Sam Browne that he would put around his waist.  He had more guns at home than the Springfield Armory. No friends, except he would hang around all the time.
> 
> The investigating department appears to have dropped the ball here.  Let's see what the FBI comes up with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did drop the ball on this investigation. The Guy is a Loon. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you are a loon. Zimmerman had been knocked to the ground from behind by that 17 year old 'child', was bleeding from the back of the head and his face.
> 
> How bad does a person have to beat another before deadly force is justifiable?
> 
> I doubt you will answer, but for the record....
Click to expand...


There is a difference between an allegation or claim, and a fact. You should calm down. Ask yourself how an armed person following someone he considers suspect, gets hit from behind? Did he possibly turn his back on the Kid after threatening or striking him? Is there anything in the kids background to suggest he was a thug? If the Kid was the aggressor, and I seriously doubt it, He did put his Life at risk, attacking an Armed Citizen. I'm open to see what the investigation brings out in relation to both of their profiles, and go with that, for a starter. I suggest you get more background on both, before drawing lines in the sand. Just a thought. P.S. I'm Pro Gun, Pro Self Defense. What kind of Neighborhood was this that the Shooter needed to call 911 so often? Were there others in the Neighborhood Watch that called so often? How often did the Police Patrol, were Police Patrols even in Sinc with the amount of Reported Crime in the area?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.*
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> He's a Nut Case. If given the opportunity, He will Kill Again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he didn't even call 911 this time, he called the non-emergency number. This whole thing stinks.
Click to expand...


In your stupid fucktrard opinion.

In a sane world, people would not be second guessing the local investigators in a case where the shot person had very likely initiated the altercation by attacking the soon-to-be shooter by hitting them from behind to the back of the head.

You dont know jack shit, you just WANT Zimmerman to be a racist for shooting a black man.

Period.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> How Zimmerman sustained his injuries, is yet unknown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unknown? You mean there is no forensic evidence telling us how it happened?
Click to expand...


Yes, unknown. There have been no reports of how zimmerman was injured, the extent of the injuries, or even IF he was injured. So far all I've seen is that he had blood on him. Whose blood was it? 



JimBowie1958 said:


> How about the witness who saw Zimmerman knocked to the ground on his back?



Where was it reported that someone saw zimmerman _being_ knocked to the ground? 




Peach said:


> There is evidence the killer was IN HIS vehicle & got out to chase the teenager walking.





JimBowie1958 said:


> *What evidence is that?* Zimmerman says he got out to check the name on a street sign, why do you suppose otherwise? If Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon then how did Trayvon wound Zimmerman in the back of the head?



zimmerman's own words to the 911 dispatcher.


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well instead of being a smart ass, try explaining why a law abiding citizen has no right to follow another person in a public place?
> 
> Do you assume that said following gives the followed the right to attack the follower?
> 
> 
> 
> I never said either of those things.  I never even implied either of those things.
> 
> Any other unfounded assumptions you care to toss out there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said, "True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense."
> 
> How is that relevant if said chasing is not allowed? And where is the evidence that Zimmerman ever chased him?
> 
> Let me aks you this then, do law abiding citizens have the right to disobey a 911 instruction?
> 
> Does a person who follows a suspected criminal have the right to defend themselves or do they forfeit that right by following the cirminal?
> 
> How badly must a person beat another person before the one being beaten has the right to defend themselves?
Click to expand...


I would heed 9/11 advice, it save my life once. I was in a burning building, 9/11 said GET OUT NOW. I did. And you presume the victim injured the killer, though the killer got out his car instead of waiting for the police. Maybe the victim saw a gun?


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> How Zimmerman sustained his injuries, is yet unknown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unknown? You mean there is no forensic evidence telling us how it happened?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, unknown. There have been no reports of how zimmerman was injured, the extent of the injuries, or even IF he was injured. So far all I've seen is that he had blood on him. Whose blood was it?
> 
> 
> 
> Where was it reported that someone saw zimmerman _being_ knocked to the ground?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is evidence the killer was IN HIS vehicle & got out to chase the teenager walking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What evidence is that?* Zimmerman says he got out to check the name on a street sign, why do you suppose otherwise? If Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon then how did Trayvon wound Zimmerman in the back of the head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> zimmerman's own words to the 911 dispatcher.
Click to expand...

What chase are you talking about?  Link?


----------



## Intense

By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) and SENI TIENABESO (@senijr_abc)
March 20, 2012

In the final moments of his life, Trayvon Martin was being hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, cornered him and confronted him, according to the teenage girl whose call logs show she was on the phone with the 17-year-old boy in the moments before neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot him dead.

Martin's death Feb. 26 has stirred national outrage and protests, partly prompting the U.S. Justice Department's Civil Rights Division and the FBI to open an investigation into the case.

ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump about the last moments of the teenager's life.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

Trayvon's phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on scene. The young woman's parents asked that her name not be used, and that only an attorney could ask her questions. 

Trayvon Martin Exclusive: Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments - ABC News


----------



## Si modo

Zimmerman does sound a bit of a freak, but being a freak is not against the law nor is it dispositive of much of anything here.


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well instead of being a smart ass, try explaining why a law abiding citizen has no right to follow another person in a public place?
> 
> Do you assume that said following gives the followed the right to attack the follower?
> 
> 
> 
> I never said either of those things.  I never even implied either of those things.
> 
> Any other unfounded assumptions you care to toss out there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said, "True, but Zimmerman still chased the guy down he alleges he shot in self defense."
> 
> How is that relevant if said chasing is not allowed? And where is the evidence that Zimmerman ever chased him?
> 
> Let me aks you this then, do law abiding citizens have the right to disobey a 911 instruction?
> 
> Does a person who follows a suspected criminal have the right to defend themselves or do they forfeit that right by following the cirminal?
> 
> How badly must a person beat another person before the one being beaten has the right to defend themselves?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, any person has the right to meet the wrongful application of force with a like degree of force, regardless of the directives of the state or any state actor, and regardless of the place in which he finds himself or how he got there.  However, my opinion and the law are not necessarily the same.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, *we don't presume guilt.*  They are investigating, though, as they should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people seem to be presuming that the kid was guilty of ... _something_.
> 
> I asked a ways back on the thread
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What crime was Trayvon committing?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe that was ever answered; maybe I missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he clobbered the guy.  Assault is a crime.
Click to expand...


Context ... 
*
Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.* *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening*

What crime was Martin committing that gave zimmerman the obligation to disregard the dispatcher's instructions and 'confront' Martin?


----------



## manifold

JimBowie1958 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a reasonable demographic sense they are not white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree. More than half of hispanics self-identify as white, the rest choose no race at all.
> 
> What about speaking Spanish makes one incapable of being white?
> 
> I have known plenty of hispanics that were lilly white, whiter than most 'white' Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course reasonableness only suits you when it suits you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is true. Ravi is a stupid fucktard.
Click to expand...


You are free to insist that Zimmerman qualifies as a white man and I'll continue to insist that by any reasonable person standard, he does not.

And if that's the case we're at an impasse and we'll have to agree to disagree.  But just know that I think less of you intellectually if that's the case.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Intense said:


> There is a difference between an allegation or claim, and a fact.



True.



Intense said:


> You should calm down.



I am calm.



Intense said:


> Ask yourself how an armed person following someone he considers suspect, gets hit from behind?



But we know he was struck from behind given the physical evidence and an eye witness.



Intense said:


> Did he possibly turn his back on the Kid after threatening or striking him?



Good Lord. Are you serious? Do you know anyone so incredibly insane that they would start an attack and then turn their back on a 17 year old male?



Intense said:


> Is there anything in the kids background to suggest he was a thug? If the Kid was the aggressor, and I seriously doubt it, He did put his Life at risk, attacking an Armed Citizen.



How would he have magically known that Zimmerman was carrying a gun?



Intense said:


> I'm open to see what the investigation brings out in relation to both of their profiles, and go with that, for a starter.



Sounds like you have already gone half way around the block, lol, let alone waiting for anything.

I am arguing that we should not presume Zimmermans guilt. The media is hyping this in a completely distorted fashion.



Intense said:


> I suggest you get more background on both, before drawing lines in the sand. Just a thought. P.S. I'm Pro Gun, Pro Self Defense. What kind of Neighborhood was this that the Shooter needed to call 911 so often?



The lines are already drawn, as the gun grabbing fascists have already jumped on the bandwagon with this case and are screaming for the repeal of stand your ground laws.




Intense said:


> Were there others in the Neighborhood Watch that called so often? How often did the Police Patrol, were Police Patrols even in Sinc with the amount of Reported Crime in the area?



All I know is that there had been a spate of robberies in that neighborhood and that the neighborhood is multi-racial and Zimmermans family is multi-racial.

But that wont stop you or anyone else from lynching Zimmerman before knowing anything about his side of the story.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Zimmerman does sound a bit of a freak, but being a freak is not against the law nor is it dispositive of much of anything here.


Still, if you have twelve jurors who think the defendant is "a freak," it doesn't make that defendant's chances a whole lot better.  There's a lot of things that go on subconsciously with juries that, unfortunately, have little to do with the facts of the case.


----------



## manifold

Ravi said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanics aren't white?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a reasonable demographic sense they are not white.
> 
> Of course reasonableness only suits you when it suits you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, I do believe on the census you can identify yourself as hispanic white or hispanic non-white.
Click to expand...


Deflection fail.

You can insist that Zimmerman is white and I'll continue to laugh at your dishonesty.

But if I'm making incorrect assumptions about your position, then by all means tell me now.  Do you see a white man when you look at Zimmerman?


----------



## Ravi

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Records show Zimmerman, 28, called the cops 46 times between January 2011 and Feb. 26.*
> 
> George Zimmerman 911 calls: George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, called 911 dozens of times - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> He's a Nut Case. If given the opportunity, He will Kill Again.
> 
> 
> 
> And he didn't even call 911 this time, he called the non-emergency number. This whole thing stinks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your stupid fucktrard opinion.
> 
> In a sane world, people would not be second guessing the local investigators in a case where the shot person had very likely initiated the altercation by attacking the soon-to-be shooter by hitting them from behind to the back of the head.
> 
> You dont know jack shit, you just WANT Zimmerman to be a racist for shooting a black man.
> 
> Period.
Click to expand...




I want the truth to come out. And it certainly should in the case of the killing of an unarmed minor.

Sad that you don't care about the truth.


----------



## JimBowie1958

manifold said:


> You are free to insist that Zimmerman qualifies as a white man and I'll continue to insist that by any reasonable person standard, he does not.
> 
> And if that's the case we're at an impasse and we'll have to agree to disagree.  But just know that I think less of you intellectually if that's the case.



Dude, think whatever you want. 

You know Argentines are hispanic right? And most of them are migrants from Southern Europe with little mix of Amerindian blood at all.

But they cant be white because they speak Spanish?

What is it about speaking Spanish that makes a person nonwhite?

In most Catholic American cultures racial thinking never got quite the hold that it did in the Northern European cultures.

What is white and what is not white has been very morphic over the centuries.

You know Ben Franklin, for example, thought that Germans were not white?

I really dont care who is white, but my federal government does since it divides the American people by race.


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman does sound a bit of a freak, but being a freak is not against the law nor is it dispositive of much of anything here.
> 
> 
> 
> Still, if you have twelve jurors who think the defendant is "a freak," it doesn't make that defendant's chances a whole lot better.  There's a lot of things that go on subconsciously with juries that, unfortunately, have little to do with the facts of the case.
Click to expand...

And, that's why there is opposing counsel to object.

Funny how that works.

And, I would sustain the objections because in MY country, we don't convict folks because we don't like them.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> None. But his behavior was suspicious and Zimmerman had every right to watch the guy wandering around in the rain snooping into homes, from his perspective.


 He was walking in a place he had every right to be. 



Emma said:


> What proof do you have Martin was "snooping into people's homes" ?





JimBowie1958 said:


> Zimmermans report. Do you think Zimmerman called 911 to alert them to a situation where he was about to kill a man in cold blood?


 I didn't hear zimmerman say Martin was "snooping into homes". 



JimBowie1958 said:


> I do not think Trayvon was involved in committing a crime, *but it would not surprise me.* Tow fo the most common situations I have read of where criminals case places for robbery is to visit on some legal pretext like being a customer or going to a party at the place targetted, or to walk around in inclimate weather because no one typically will bother to stay out in the rain and watch people doing things.


 Well, that says it all right there. 



JimBowie1958 said:


> But in any case, Zimmerman had the right to walk anywhere he damend well wanted


 So did Trayvon. 



JimBowie1958 said:


> Trayvon could have thought that Zimmerman was about to rob him, who knows?


 Then the attack you claim happened would have been justified. 




JimBowie1958 said:


> But you WANT this to be about white-on-black racism because libtrards revel in that shit.


No, I've already addressed this. Keep up.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman does sound a bit of a freak, but being a freak is not against the law nor is it dispositive of much of anything here.
> 
> 
> 
> Still, if you have twelve jurors who think the defendant is "a freak," it doesn't make that defendant's chances a whole lot better.  There's a lot of things that go on subconsciously with juries that, unfortunately, have little to do with the facts of the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And, that's why there is opposing counsel to object.
> 
> Funny how that works.
> 
> And, I would sustain the objections because in MY country, we don't convict folks because we don't like them.
Click to expand...

Objecting to subconscious influences?

Good luck with that.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> I want the truth to come out. And it certainly should in the case of the killing of an unarmed minor.
> 
> Sad that you don't care about the truth.



I want the Truth to come out, more than you apparently since I wam willing to wait for all the info before I am ready to lynch anyone.

I also want justice and so I oppose the idea that Zimmerman is a murdering racist simply because he is a white guy who shot and killed a black guy.

As to Travon being a child, bullshit. He was 17 and far closer to being an adult than the little kid CNN  keeps showing us.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still, if you have twelve jurors who think the defendant is "a freak," it doesn't make that defendant's chances a whole lot better.  There's a lot of things that go on subconsciously with juries that, unfortunately, have little to do with the facts of the case.
> 
> 
> 
> And, that's why there is opposing counsel to object.
> 
> Funny how that works.
> 
> And, I would sustain the objections because in MY country, we don't convict folks because we don't like them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Objecting to subconscious influences?
> 
> Good luck with that.
Click to expand...


How in the hell is one supposed to defend oneself against accusations of having subconscious influences?

Dear Lord, save us from the libtards.


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, that's why there is opposing counsel to object.
> 
> Funny how that works.
> 
> And, I would sustain the objections because in MY country, we don't convict folks because we don't like them.
> 
> 
> 
> Objecting to subconscious influences?
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How in the hell is one supposed to defend oneself against accusations of having subconscious influences?
> 
> Dear Lord, save us from the libtards.
Click to expand...

I was defending your boy Zimmerman, shithead.

Damn, you're stupid.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> None. But his behavior was suspicious and Zimmerman had every right to watch the guy wandering around in the rain snooping into homes, from his perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> He was walking in a place he had every right to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> What proof do you have Martin was "snooping into people's homes" ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't hear zimmerman say Martin was "snooping into homes".
> 
> Well, that says it all right there.
Click to expand...


Yes, I must be a racist because I think a black guy just might be a criminal if he is wandering around in the rain snooping into peoples homes, according to Zimmerman.

ROFLMAO



Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon could have thought that Zimmerman was about to rob him, who knows?
> 
> 
> 
> Then the attack you claim happened would have been justified.
Click to expand...


But it might not have been too. Zimmerman could be lying, but I doubt it as other evidence backs up his story.



Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you WANT this to be about white-on-black racism because libtrards revel in that shit.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I've already addressed this. Keep up.
Click to expand...


Bullshit.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> Why do you presume that criminal's *have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to*?



Like zimmerman deciding he had the right to deny this law-abiding young man the right to go where he wanted to? 

The irony, it burns ....


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still, if you have twelve jurors who think the defendant is "a freak," it doesn't make that defendant's chances a whole lot better.  There's a lot of things that go on subconsciously with juries that, unfortunately, have little to do with the facts of the case.
> 
> 
> 
> And, that's why there is opposing counsel to object.
> 
> Funny how that works.
> 
> And, I would sustain the objections because in MY country, we don't convict folks because we don't like them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Objecting to subconscious influences?
> 
> Good luck with that.
Click to expand...

Where did I say I object or would object to that?

I would object to evidence that he is or was a freak. 

Let's see if you can figure out the difference.  

Because in MY country, it is not against the law to be unlikeable.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Objecting to subconscious influences?
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How in the hell is one supposed to defend oneself against accusations of having subconscious influences?
> 
> Dear Lord, save us from the libtards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was defending your boy Zimmerman, shithead.
Click to expand...


I dont care who you were talking about. Subconscience influences are not provable in a court of law, and it is nothing more than modern voodoo to try.



Crackerjack said:


> Damn, you're stupid.



Yeah, because anyone that disagrees with a libtard must be stupid, lol.


----------



## Peach

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, that's why there is opposing counsel to object.
> 
> Funny how that works.
> 
> And, I would sustain the objections because in MY country, we don't convict folks because we don't like them.
> 
> 
> 
> Objecting to subconscious influences?
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How in the hell is one supposed to defend oneself against accusations of having subconscious influences?
> 
> Dear Lord, save us from the libtards.
Click to expand...



I too want the facts to be ascertained, and think FDLE should be the first resource. Why DOJ is involved, I do not know, but I believe it is too early for Fed review.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, that's why there is opposing counsel to object.
> 
> Funny how that works.
> 
> And, I would sustain the objections because in MY country, we don't convict folks because we don't like them.
> 
> 
> 
> Objecting to subconscious influences?
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did I say I object or would object to that?
> 
> I would object to evidence that he is or was a freak.
> 
> Let's see if you can figure out the difference.
> 
> Because in MY country, it is not against the law to be unlikeable.
Click to expand...

So to what would you object, opposing counsel?


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's *have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to*?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like zimmerman deciding he had the right to deny this law-abiding young man the right to go where he wanted to?
> 
> The irony, it burns ....
Click to expand...

The irony is that you think it is against the law to follow someone.


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> I dont care who you were talking about. Subconscience influences are not provable in a court of law, and it is nothing more than modern voodoo to try.


I won't even try to explain what I was talking about, as it's clear the derp is too strong for me to pierce with you.



JimBowie1958 said:


> Yeah, because anyone that disagrees with a libtard must be stupid, lol.


Libtard?

What is that, and why do you think I am one?  Please elaborate, shithead.


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Objecting to subconscious influences?
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say I object or would object to that?
> 
> *I would object to evidence that he is or was a freak.
> *
> Let's see if you can figure out the difference.
> 
> Because in MY country, it is not against the law to be unlikeable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So to what would you object, opposing counsel?
Click to expand...


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> No, you are a loon. *Zimmerman had been knocked to the ground from behind* by that 17 year old 'child', was bleeding from the back of the head and his face.
> 
> How bad does a person have to beat another before deadly force is justifiable?
> 
> I doubt you will answer, but for the record....



source? other than zimmerman, that is lol


----------



## JimBowie1958

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's *have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to*?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like zimmerman deciding he had the right to deny this law-abiding young man the right to go where he wanted to?
> 
> The irony, it burns ....
Click to expand...


Zimmerman had no such right, but where is the evidence he tried to stop Trayvor from going anywhere?

He merely called 911, and according to him, he got out to read a sign and the Trayvon hit him from behind.

If Zimmerman tried to make a citizens arrest, were I Trayvor, I would have told the guy, fine, lets call the cops and then I am going to sue you for kidnapping when it checks out that I dont have a record and you have no reason to believe I am doing anything illegal.

My *guess* is that Trayvon was the vigilante here and attacked Zimmerman from behind thinnking Zimmerman was going to rob him or worse.

Apparently he chose poorly.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are a loon. *Zimmerman had been knocked to the ground from behind* by that 17 year old 'child', was bleeding from the back of the head and his face.
> 
> How bad does a person have to beat another before deadly force is justifiable?
> 
> I doubt you will answer, but for the record....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source? other than zimmerman, that is lol
Click to expand...


A witness saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon standing over him and Zimmerman had a bleeding wound to the back of the head.

And again, I answered your question but you ignore mine. Why? Because you are an arrogant libtard who presumes they already know what happend based on nothing more than the races of the people involved. 

Shame on you.

But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?

lol


----------



## JimBowie1958

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont care who you were talking about. Subconscience influences are not provable in a court of law, and it is nothing more than modern voodoo to try.
> 
> 
> 
> I won't even try to explain what I was talking about, as it's clear the derp is too strong for me to pierce with you.
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, because anyone that disagrees with a libtard must be stupid, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Libtard?
> 
> What is that, and why do you think I am one?  Please elaborate, shithead.
Click to expand...


Lol, whatever.


----------



## Katzndogz

The family of the slain teen should not be expected to say anything other than what they did.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's *have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to*?
> 
> 
> 
> Like zimmerman deciding he had the right to deny this law-abiding young man the right to go where he wanted to?
> 
> The irony, it burns ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The irony is that you think it is against the law to follow someone.
Click to expand...

Following someone isn't, but stalking someone is.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say I object or would object to that?
> 
> *I would object to evidence that he is or was a freak.
> *
> Let's see if you can figure out the difference.
> 
> Because in MY country, it is not against the law to be unlikeable.
> 
> 
> 
> So to what would you object, opposing counsel?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Please forgive me for misreading.

My contention is that he's done a lot of things that, while not illegal, make him look bad.  Some of those things are bound to get in regardless of what his defense counsel does.  Even if he is 100% innocent of any legal wrongdoing, I don't think he did himself any favors by carrying out those certain presumably legal actions.

I don't want to convict the guy for being weird or for exerting reasonable force to save his life or limb.  Not at all.


----------



## JimBowie1958

This conversation is going nowhere.

The libtards have nothing on Zimmerman than racist presumption and a deep rooted distrust of law abiding citizens defending themselves.

The left is launching a campaign to repeal/stop/slow stand your ground laws in this country. 

That is all this brouhahah is about, and has nothing to do with the facts of the case or whether this 17 year old was unjustly killed.

The libtards will always be libtards, and nothing will ever change that untill they abort themselve sinto nonexistance. I bid them God's Speed.


----------



## manifold

JimBowie1958 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are free to insist that Zimmerman qualifies as a white man and I'll continue to insist that by any reasonable person standard, he does not.
> 
> And if that's the case we're at an impasse and we'll have to agree to disagree.  But just know that I think less of you intellectually if that's the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, think whatever you want.
> 
> You know Argentines are hispanic right? And most of them are migrants from Southern Europe with little mix of Amerindian blood at all.
> 
> But they cant be white because they speak Spanish?
> 
> What is it about speaking Spanish that makes a person nonwhite?
> 
> In most Catholic American cultures racial thinking never got quite the hold that it did in the Northern European cultures.
> 
> What is white and what is not white has been very morphic over the centuries.
> 
> You know Ben Franklin, for example, thought that Germans were not white?
> 
> I really dont care who is white, but my federal government does since it divides the American people by race.
Click to expand...


I'm not going to dispute any of that.

But honestly, when you look at Zimmerman do you see a white guy?


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont care who you were talking about. Subconscience influences are not provable in a court of law, and it is nothing more than modern voodoo to try.
> 
> 
> 
> I won't even try to explain what I was talking about, as it's clear the derp is too strong for me to pierce with you.
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, because anyone that disagrees with a libtard must be stupid, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Libtard?
> 
> What is that, and why do you think I am one?  Please elaborate, shithead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol, whatever.
Click to expand...

Thanks for admitting your fail.  Have a shitty day.


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> So to what would you object, opposing counsel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please forgive me for misreading.
> 
> My contention is that he's done a lot of things that, while not illegal, make him look bad.  Some of those things are bound to get in regardless of what his defense counsel does.  Even if he is 100% innocent of any legal wrongdoing, I don't think he did himself any favors by carrying out those certain presumably legal actions.
> 
> I don't want to convict the guy for being weird or for exerting reasonable force to save his life or limb.  Not at all.
Click to expand...

  Good to know.

But, the guy also has the 'stand your ground' laws on his side.

Those are the law in Florida, irrespective of how retarded they are.


----------



## Intense

JimBowie1958 said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a difference between an allegation or claim, and a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should calm down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am calm.
> 
> 
> 
> But we know he was struck from behind given the physical evidence and an eye witness.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord. Are you serious? Do you know anyone so incredibly insane that they would start an attack and then turn their back on a 17 year old male?
> 
> 
> 
> How would he have magically known that Zimmerman was carrying a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you have already gone half way around the block, lol, let alone waiting for anything.
> 
> I am arguing that we should not presume Zimmermans guilt. The media is hyping this in a completely distorted fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you get more background on both, before drawing lines in the sand. Just a thought. P.S. I'm Pro Gun, Pro Self Defense. What kind of Neighborhood was this that the Shooter needed to call 911 so often?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The lines are already drawn, as the gun grabbing fascists have already jumped on the bandwagon with this case and are screaming for the repeal of stand your ground laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were there others in the Neighborhood Watch that called so often? How often did the Police Patrol, were Police Patrols even in Sinc with the amount of Reported Crime in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I know is that there had been a spate of robberies in that neighborhood and that the neighborhood is multi-racial and Zimmermans family is multi-racial.
> 
> But that wont stop you or anyone else from lynching Zimmerman before knowing anything about his side of the story.
Click to expand...


You are jumping to too many conclusions. It is premature. Lets see how your Witness stands up for one. Let's see what comes up to both the Shooter's and the Victim's backgrounds. I'm not pre judging. I'm suspicious.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please forgive me for misreading.
> 
> My contention is that he's done a lot of things that, while not illegal, make him look bad.  Some of those things are bound to get in regardless of what his defense counsel does.  Even if he is 100% innocent of any legal wrongdoing, I don't think he did himself any favors by carrying out those certain presumably legal actions.
> 
> I don't want to convict the guy for being weird or for exerting reasonable force to save his life or limb.  Not at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> But, the guy also has the 'stand your ground' laws on his side.
> 
> Those are the law in Florida, irrespective of how retarded they are.
Click to expand...

Just for grins, why do you oppose such laws, and what do you think the law should be?


----------



## Si modo

Intense said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a difference between an allegation or claim, and a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> 
> 
> I am calm.
> 
> 
> 
> But we know he was struck from behind given the physical evidence and an eye witness.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord. Are you serious? Do you know anyone so incredibly insane that they would start an attack and then turn their back on a 17 year old male?
> 
> 
> 
> How would he have magically known that Zimmerman was carrying a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you have already gone half way around the block, lol, let alone waiting for anything.
> 
> I am arguing that we should not presume Zimmermans guilt. The media is hyping this in a completely distorted fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> The lines are already drawn, as the gun grabbing fascists have already jumped on the bandwagon with this case and are screaming for the repeal of stand your ground laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were there others in the Neighborhood Watch that called so often? How often did the Police Patrol, were Police Patrols even in Sinc with the amount of Reported Crime in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I know is that there had been a spate of robberies in that neighborhood and that the neighborhood is multi-racial and Zimmermans family is multi-racial.
> 
> But that wont stop you or anyone else from lynching Zimmerman before knowing anything about his side of the story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are jumping to too many conclusions. It is premature. Lets see how your Witness stands up for one. Let's see what comes up to both the Shooter's and the Victim's backgrounds. I'm not pre judging. I'm suspicious.
Click to expand...

I'm more skeptical than suspicious.  Semantics, maybe, but that's my preference of words for where I am.

I am perturbed at what is likely a political move to use the DOJ to challenge a state law, though.  That's just wrong.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's *have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to*?
> 
> 
> 
> Like zimmerman deciding he had the right to deny this law-abiding young man the right to go where he wanted to?
> 
> The irony, it burns ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The irony is that you think it is against the law to follow someone.
Click to expand...


I never said it was against the law to follow someone.


----------



## Katzndogz

Hispanics are ethinically white, for DOJ statistical purposes, hispanics that commit crimes are designated white, hispanics that are victims of crimes are designated hispanic.

Analysis of Hate Crime

In 1990, Congress passed the Hate Crime Statistics Act, requiring the Justice Department to collect and publish annual statistics on crimes that "manifest prejudice based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity." To comply, the FBI collects data submitted voluntarily by local law-enforcement agencies, and assembles them into an annual summary report. Most of the analysis you will find here pertains to the numbers found in these reports.

Anyone who has pored over Government documents, knows first-hand how agencies can manipulate data to make a point. Crime statistics are a good example, the treatment of hate-crime data being especially egregious. The Justice department has wide latitude in how they comply with the Hate Crime Statistics Act. Accordingly, it has bent the data toward its own ends by omitting categories for ethnic offenders. Thus, Hispanics cannot be hate criminals, only hate victims. When a Hispanic commits a hate crime, he is counted as white. When he is a victim, he becomes Hispanic. In this way the FBI pads the number of white offenders. Despite this baggage we can learn much from the FBI data. By focusing on victims, we can sidestep Justice Department attempts at obfuscation.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like zimmerman deciding he had the right to deny this law-abiding young man the right to go where he wanted to?
> 
> The irony, it burns ....
> 
> 
> 
> The irony is that you think it is against the law to follow someone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said it was against the law to follow someone.
Click to expand...

OK.  Then you enjoy bringing up the irrelevant.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> *He merely called 911, and according to him, he got out to read a sign and the Trayvon hit him from behind.*



Listen to the beginning of the tape again. Listen to what zimmerman says, listen for when the car door opens and zimmerman exits his vehicle, and _think_ about what you just wrote here.


----------



## Emma

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *He merely called 911, and according to him, he got out to read a sign and the Trayvon hit him from behind.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the beginning of the tape again. Listen to what zimmerman says, listen for when the car door opens and zimmerman exits his vehicle, and _think_ about what you just wrote here.
Click to expand...


Oh... and take a look-see at the photos of where the confrontation and shooting took place.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?



I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.
Click to expand...

Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The irony is that you think it is against the law to follow someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was against the law to follow someone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK.  Then you enjoy bringing up the irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I'm not the one who brought it up: 



JimBowie1958 said:


> Why do you presume that criminal's *have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to*?


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.
Click to expand...


Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was against the law to follow someone.
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Then you enjoy bringing up the irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not the one who brought it up:
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's *have the right to deny  law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to*?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yes, you were.  You brought up the irrelevant.

The alleged fact that someone was following someone else is irrelevant.  YOU brought THAT up.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.
Click to expand...

I agree on both points.  To the first, why are the politicians wasting the FBI's time on this?

I have a good idea why, but let's see if others can come up with something similar.

To the second, we cannot convict anyone for something they may do.  Sometimes it feels like our hands are tied, but better to tie them than to allow any abuse of authority.  I imagine you agree.


----------



## Katzndogz

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.
Click to expand...


I just heard one.   Zimmerman had wounds consistent with self defense.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree on both points.  To the first, why are the politicians wasting the FBI's time on this?
> 
> I have a good idea why, but let's see if others can come up with something similar.
> 
> 
> To the second, we cannot convict anyone for something they may do.  Sometimes it feels like our hands are tied, but better to tie them than to allow any abuse of authority.  I imagine you agree.
Click to expand...


Yes, but I'm not suggesting they convict him now for what he may do... just that I can see him doing something stupid in the future where he won't be so lucky as to have such an inane law to protect him.


----------



## Liability

The alleged "white" shooter was actually Hispanic.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not the one who brought it up:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you were.  You brought up the irrelevant.
> 
> The alleged fact that someone was following someone else is irrelevant.  YOU brought THAT up.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I can't make you comprehend what you read.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-31.html#post4987633
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-22.html#post4986974
Click to expand...

I have no idea to what you are linking.  The both go to the top of this page.


----------



## Emma

Katzndogz said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just heard one.   Zimmerman had wounds consistent with self defense.
Click to expand...


Have there been any reports of wounds found on Trayvon that would indicate he struck zimmerman?


----------



## Crackerjack

Liability said:


> The alleged "white" shooter was actually Hispanic.


I'd pay good money to see the NAACP and LULAC go at it over this.


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.
Click to expand...

He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.

I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you were.  You brought up the irrelevant.
> 
> The alleged fact that someone was following someone else is irrelevant.  YOU brought THAT up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I can't make you comprehend what you read.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-31.html#post4987633
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-22.html#post4986974
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no idea to what you are linking.  The both go to the top of this page.
Click to expand...




Peach said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here  in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a  person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not  just "any situation where they are threatened."
> 
> George Zimmerman &#8800; police officer.
> 
> indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, wow you are clueless.
> 
> In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.
> 
> I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would  apply.  If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a  confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.
> 
> Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is  "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone.  With that kind  of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if  she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away,  you'd have her hauled off to jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man  AFTER calling  9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?
Click to expand...





JimBowie1958 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si  modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's  car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11  dispatcher advises.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more  difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up  shooting the followed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny  law abiding  citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to?
Click to expand...


Don't see my name there in those posts leading up to the one I responded to ...

no matter. 

it's late, I have to get to bed.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I can't make you comprehend what you read.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-31.html#post4987633
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-22.html#post4986974
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea to what you are linking.  The both go to the top of this page.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it will make it that much more  difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up  shooting the followed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny  law abiding  citizens the right to go wherever the fuck they want to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't see my name there in those posts leading up to the one I responded to ...
> 
> no matter.
> 
> it's late, I have to get to bed.
Click to expand...



You are right.  It was Peach.  I apologize.


----------



## Emma

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.
> 
> I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.
Click to expand...


It's his word against a dead kid. He'll walk.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> You are right.  It was Peach.  I apologize.



No biggie. To tell the truth, I'm so tired I thought ... well, maybe I DID say that 

Getting old and confused really sucks LOL


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.
> 
> 
> 
> He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.
> 
> I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's his word against a dead kid. He'll walk.
Click to expand...


The kid was reportedly talking on his cell phone when the attack happened. It would be very unusual for someone to attack someone while chatting on the phone.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether he was or not doesn't matter.  Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.
> 
> I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.
Click to expand...

I think what might get him off is an independent witness already claiming that he saw Zimmerman on the ground.

Personally, I think this is a tragedy.  I think the 17 yo was doing nothing but walking back to his father's fiancee's house - the kid probably had to get out.  My fiancee's 17 yo can't stand me simply because I am his father's fiancee.  So, the kid got out of the house for a break.

Zimmerman, being the wannabe copper, probably knew exactly what he could and could not do within the laws there.  And, now that kid is dead.

Maybe the next session of the Florida legislature should revisit these laws.


----------



## bayoubill

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are right.  It was Peach.  I apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No biggie. To tell the truth, I'm so tired I thought ... well, maybe I DID say that
> 
> Getting old and confused really sucks LOL
Click to expand...


but, as my recently-deceased father-in-law used to say, "it's better than the alternative..."


----------



## Emma

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.
> 
> I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's his word against a dead kid. He'll walk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid was reportedly talking on his cell phone when the attack happened. It would be very unusual for someone to attack someone while chatting on the phone.
Click to expand...


there is that ... have they been able to confirm that the girl was talking to Trayvon when she claimed to be?


----------



## Emma

bayoubill said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are right.  It was Peach.  I apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No biggie. To tell the truth, I'm so tired I thought ... well, maybe I DID say that
> 
> Getting old and confused really sucks LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but, as my recently-deceased father-in-law used to say, "it's better than the alternative..."
Click to expand...


true true


----------



## The Gadfly

High_Gravity said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home.* From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
Click to expand...


HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences. 

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now. 

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.


----------



## uptownlivin90

theHawk said:


> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.



For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa. 

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Gadfly said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home.* From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
Click to expand...


I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.


----------



## uptownlivin90

High_Gravity said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.
Click to expand...


LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?
Click to expand...


From what I understand this is a newer group, not the original Black Liberation Army.


----------



## Sallow

The Gadfly said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home.* From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
Click to expand...


The "media firestorm" happened after the police let Zimmerman go without testing him for drugs or alcohol or charging him with anything. Then the police told the Martin family that Zimmerman "had a clean" record so they basically thought it was "self defense". Charlie Manson would have loved these cops.


----------



## uptownlivin90

High_Gravity said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand this is a newer group, not the original Black Liberation Army.
Click to expand...


Proof that high unemployment breeds boredom which can be dangerous.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "media firestorm" happened after the police let Zimmerman go without testing him for drugs or alcohol or charging him with anything. Then the police told the Martin family that Zimmerman "had a clean" record so they basically thought it was "self defense". Charlie Manson would have loved these cops.
Click to expand...


I can't believe he was let go just like that, I thought you were at least held in custody for a while if you shoot some one.


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand this is a newer group, not the original Black Liberation Army.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Proof that high unemployment breeds boredom which can be dangerous.
Click to expand...


You got a point there.


----------



## 52ndStreet

The Gadfly said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home.* From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
Click to expand...


Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already  presumed that 
Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.

You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with  a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!

If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police 
got there.


----------



## The Gadfly

Not necessarily, HG; all depends on the jurisdiction and the circumstances. Here for instance, if you shoot an intruder in your home, there is almost never an arrest. IN other cases that appear to be clear-cut self-defense, there may or may not be, although, it's usually perfunctory; any decision on charges is made later in such a case.. In this instance, since we haven't heard all the evidence the police gathered at the scene, it's hard to know why they did not arrest Zimmerman; but even then, it would be up to the local DA, solicitor, or prosecutor( not sure what title FL uses) to decide on charges, if any, once the investigation is concluded. As for the subject's prior arrest, my understanding is those charges were dropped, which of course, makes his record clean, from a legal standpoint-no trial, no conviction, no guilty or NC plea equals clean record.

I've listened to the tapes again, and while Zimmerman doesn't pronounce some word clearly, I can't say he sounds drunk, especially if  (as I believe someone stated)English is not his first language. Anyone know if they gave him a field sobriety check and/or breath test on the scene? I don't.

Completely understand the emotions, if Martin looks like a family member of yours -any of us would identify with him emotionally in such an instance, so I do understand that's got to be difficult for you. Hopefully we'll have much more information when the investigation is finished, maybe that will help clarify things; I want the truth too, or at least as much of it as can be determined. Let's hope all available physical evidence from the scene was collected, at least.. Meanwhile, I don't see enough at this point from which to draw any hard conclusions.


----------



## Peach

52ndStreet said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already  presumed that
> Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.
> 
> You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with  a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!
> 
> If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
> got there.
Click to expand...



Agreed, but, he took the law into his own shaky hands.


----------



## Amelia

manifold said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are free to insist that Zimmerman qualifies as a white man and I'll continue to insist that by any reasonable person standard, he does not.
> 
> And if that's the case we're at an impasse and we'll have to agree to disagree.  But just know that I think less of you intellectually if that's the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, think whatever you want.
> 
> You know Argentines are hispanic right? And most of them are migrants from Southern Europe with little mix of Amerindian blood at all.
> 
> But they cant be white because they speak Spanish?
> 
> What is it about speaking Spanish that makes a person nonwhite?
> 
> In most Catholic American cultures racial thinking never got quite the hold that it did in the Northern European cultures.
> 
> What is white and what is not white has been very morphic over the centuries.
> 
> You know Ben Franklin, for example, thought that Germans were not white?
> 
> I really dont care who is white, but my federal government does since it divides the American people by race.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not going to dispute any of that.
> 
> But honestly, when you look at Zimmerman do you see a white guy?
Click to expand...



I did.  When I was told I was supposed to see some other ethnicity I looked harder I said, "um, okay, I can see that".


----------



## bayoubill

52ndStreet said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already  presumed that
> Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.
> 
> You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with  a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!
> 
> If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
> got there.
Click to expand...


go back and re-read Gadfly's post, 52... carefully this time...

he's not making any presumptions or accusations... he's merely suggesting some "what might have actually happened" scenarios in this tragic occurrance...


----------



## uptownlivin90

Amelia said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, think whatever you want.
> 
> You know Argentines are hispanic right? And most of them are migrants from Southern Europe with little mix of Amerindian blood at all.
> 
> But they cant be white because they speak Spanish?
> 
> What is it about speaking Spanish that makes a person nonwhite?
> 
> In most Catholic American cultures racial thinking never got quite the hold that it did in the Northern European cultures.
> 
> What is white and what is not white has been very morphic over the centuries.
> 
> You know Ben Franklin, for example, thought that Germans were not white?
> 
> I really dont care who is white, but my federal government does since it divides the American people by race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to dispute any of that.
> 
> But honestly, when you look at Zimmerman do you see a white guy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did.  When I was told I was supposed to see some other ethnicity I looked harder I said, "um, okay, I can see that".
Click to expand...


I thought he was white as well. That's besides the point though... white, black, orange, or green, he's an idiot as far as I'm concerned, and quite possibly a murderer.


----------



## Ravi

bayoubill said:


> 52ndStreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already  presumed that
> Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.
> 
> You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with  a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!
> 
> If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
> got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> go back and re-read Gadfly's post, 52... carefully this time...
> 
> he's not making any presumptions or accusations... he's merely suggesting some "what might have actually happened" scenarios in this tragic occurrance...
Click to expand...

There's really no need to read it. Gagfly laid blame on "youth these days" and 50 cent made a good point.


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.
> 
> I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?
> 
> Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.
Click to expand...


More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?


----------



## uptownlivin90

Peach said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.
> 
> I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?
> 
> Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?
Click to expand...


The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.

Which brings up another question, could this have been a cover-up on the part of the local police department?

Because I think it's pretty obvious that somebody dropped the ball on some things, even lied to the family by teling them he had a "clean record". So was the ball dropped clumsily... or on purpose?


----------



## The Gadfly

52ndStreet said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid.  However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.
> 
> What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.
> 
> Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (*though not assume*) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
> It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.
> 
> We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.
> 
> Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already  presumed that
> Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.
> 
> You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with  a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!
> 
> If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
> got there.
Click to expand...


I didn't PRESUME anything, 52nd; I *speculated*, as others have done here, on what may have happened; the difference was, I clearly labeled those ideas as "SPECULATION", NOT as facts, and merely suggested that if we were going to speculate in the absence of evidence, that was a possibility we should consider (but specifically NOT ASSUME !).  Once again, what's the point in having a judicial process, if we are either going to not use it, or try to short-circuit it when it moves to slow for our liking. 

I repeat, I WANT THE TRUTH TOO, but I want it as evidenced by facts, not innuendo, supposition conjecture, or emotionalism; if there is in fact a case to be made and tried, I want it tried in a court of law, where it belongs. THis case may be anything from legal self-defense to negligent homicide, to voluntary manslaughter. There is not one of us here who can say with certainty which it is, based on the facts released so far. The deceased may have been guilty of anything from absolutely nothing, to aggravated battery; we don't know that either..


----------



## bayoubill

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people... 

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?  

and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?







there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...

and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...


----------



## High_Gravity

bayoubill said:


> I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...
> 
> if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?  and how fair do you think that is...?



Well judging from the pics no white men were involved.


----------



## The Gadfly

uptownlivin90 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.
> 
> I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?
> 
> Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.
> 
> Which brings up another question, could this have been a cover-up on the part of the local police department?
> 
> Because I think it's pretty obvious that somebody dropped the ball on some things, even lied to the family by teling them he had a "clean record". So was the ball dropped clumsily... or on purpose?
Click to expand...

That's a fair question, or appears to be, from what we know right now. The accounting of the facts the local police should reasonably have in their possession is quite incomplete; so either (a) they do not possess those facts, or (b) they are not releasing those facts, for reasons unknown. Now whether that is due to an inept investigation, or something more, we can't tell, and we won't know, until more complete investigation by the State Attorney's office and the FDLE is finished.. The problem is, everyone is trying to draw conclusions in a situation  in which we have a hell of a lot more questions than factual answers.


----------



## bayoubill

uptownlivin90 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.
> 
> I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?
> 
> Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.
Click to expand...


ummm... it ain't nearly finished yet... 

and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's somehow used to try to influence the presidential election eight months from now...


----------



## The Gadfly

Peach said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.
> 
> Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it.  If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.
> 
> Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.
> 
> I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?
> 
> Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?
Click to expand...


Peach, we don't know why, from anything I'm aware of. They may have offered, he may just as easily have declined; I can tell you that I have, as an EMT/Paramedic, had patients with pretty significant injuries decline treatment and/or transportation; they do have that right (unless the police take them into custody, i.e. formally arrest them).


----------



## uptownlivin90

bayoubill said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ummm... it ain't nearly finished yet...
> 
> and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's somehow used to try to influence the presidential election eight months from now...
Click to expand...


First, nobody will remember it. I've tracked cases like this for years. They have a two to three month life span IF THAT.

Second, what does the president have to do with this besides his skin tone? Don't worry... I'll wait...


----------



## PredFan

Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.

Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:

The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime). The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.


----------



## Peach

The Gadfly said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.
> 
> I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?
> 
> Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peach, we don't know why, from anything I'm aware of. They may have offered, he may just as easily have declined; I can tell you that I have, as an EMT/Paramedic, had patients with pretty significant injuries decline treatment and/or transportation; they do have that right (unless the police take them into custody, i.e. formally arrest them).
Click to expand...



I was in a car accident once and forced to go the hospital, or so it seems. All that can be asked for in this case is a genuine investigation. "He's injured, self defense", doesn't meet that goal.


----------



## Emma

Peach said:


> More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?


Head injuries are a serious matter, ya know.


----------



## Emma

bayoubill said:


> I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...
> 
> if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?
> 
> and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...
> 
> and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...



True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ... 

I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?


----------



## uptownlivin90

PredFan said:


> Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.
> 
> Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:
> 
> *The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime).* The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.



Harassment is a crime.


----------



## Peach

bayoubill said:


> I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...
> 
> if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?
> 
> and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...
> 
> and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...



True, Bundy comes to mind as a sick, heinous killer that could appear "nice".


----------



## bayoubill

uptownlivin90 said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ummm... it ain't nearly finished yet...
> 
> and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's somehow used to try to influence the presidential election eight months from now...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, nobody will remember it. I've tracked cases like this for years. They have a two to three month life span IF THAT.
> 
> Second, what does the president have to do with this besides his skin tone? Don't worry... I'll wait...
Click to expand...


first, the issue might well have "legs"... depends on how long the MSM decides to push the story...

second, the issue has nothing to do with the president... but the MSM, as well as other players, may decide to push it as though it does...


----------



## bayoubill

Emma said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...
> 
> if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?
> 
> and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...
> 
> and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...
> 
> I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?
Click to expand...


I 'spect Zimmerman didn't brandish the gun at first (but was nonetheless emboldened to challenge Martin because he had the gun)... and pulled the gun out only when he felt threatened by Martin's refusal to back down...


----------



## PredFan

uptownlivin90 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.
> 
> Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:
> 
> *The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime).* The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harassment is a crime.
Click to expand...


Following someone is not a crime.


----------



## High_Gravity

PredFan said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.
> 
> Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:
> 
> *The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime).* The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harassment is a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Following someone is not a crime.
Click to expand...


Its not?


----------



## manifold

High_Gravity said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Harassment is a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone is not a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not?
Click to expand...


If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.


----------



## Amelia

Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him. 

 Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.


----------



## Peach

bayoubill said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...
> 
> if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?
> 
> and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...
> 
> and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...
> 
> I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I 'spect Zimmerman didn't brandish the gun at first (but was nonetheless emboldened to challenge Martin because he had the gun)... and pulled the gun out only when he felt threatened by Martin's refusal to back down...
Click to expand...


Or answer his questions perhaps?


----------



## High_Gravity

manifold said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone is not a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
Click to expand...


Isn't that harassment or stalking from the other persons point of view?


----------



## Peach

bayoubill said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...
> 
> if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?
> 
> and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...
> 
> and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...
> 
> I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I 'spect Zimmerman didn't brandish the gun at first (but was nonetheless emboldened to challenge Martin because he had the gun)... and pulled the gun out only when he felt threatened by Martin's refusal to back down...
Click to expand...


Zimmerman has MILLIONS of defenders I gather. I wish the teenager had had just one......................................


----------



## PredFan

High_Gravity said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Harassment is a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone is not a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not?
Click to expand...


What I think of your avie MIGHT be a crime....in some states.


----------



## uptownlivin90

bayoubill said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ummm... it ain't nearly finished yet...
> 
> and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's somehow used to try to influence the presidential election eight months from now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, nobody will remember it. I've tracked cases like this for years. They have a two to three month life span IF THAT.
> 
> Second, what does the president have to do with this besides his skin tone? Don't worry... I'll wait...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> first, the issue might well have "legs"... depends on how long the MSM decides to push the story...
> 
> second, the issue has nothing to do with the president... but the MSM, as well as other players, may decide to push it as though it does...
Click to expand...


The only person who seems to be pushing Barack Obama in this is you.

You seem to think that for some reason because President Obama is African American he'll use his skin tone to make this a political issue.

It seems to me that the race baiting is coming from you in this case. Not the left, as it often does.


----------



## PredFan

Peach said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...
> 
> I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I 'spect Zimmerman didn't brandish the gun at first (but was nonetheless emboldened to challenge Martin because he had the gun)... and pulled the gun out only when he felt threatened by Martin's refusal to back down...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman has MILLIONS of defenders I gather. I wish the teenager had had just one......................................
Click to expand...


You don't yet know that he needs a defender. I'm only defending the concept of innocent until proven guilty.


----------



## High_Gravity

PredFan said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone is not a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I think of your avie MIGHT be a crime....in some states.
Click to expand...


My avie is beautiful.


----------



## uptownlivin90

manifold said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone is not a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
Click to expand...


That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment. 

I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.


----------



## 52ndStreet

Amelia said:


> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.



This Zimmerman will not be exonerated with regards to this case. If the telephone evidence is correct, this Zimmerman will be charged with murder. There was no real 
justification for the shooting of Trevon Martin. The teenager was fleeing from him, not attacking him. Zimmerman appears to be the aggressor here, he can not invoke self defense with regards to this case.!,if the person was fleeing from him.!!


----------



## Peach

52ndStreet said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Zimmerman will not be exonerated with regards to this case. If the telephone evidence is correct, this Zimmerman will be charged with murder. There was no real
> justification for the shooting of Trevon Martin. The teenager was fleeing from him, not attacking him. Zimmerman appears to be the aggressor here, he can not invoke self defense with regards to this case.!,if the person was fleeing from him.!!
Click to expand...



He can, he was "injured". And he can claim the teenager killed attacked HIM. NO INVESTIGATION until the last few days. Evidence gets stale.........only public outcry got even FDLE involved.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Peach said:


> 52ndStreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Zimmerman will not be exonerated with regards to this case. If the telephone evidence is correct, this Zimmerman will be charged with murder. There was no real
> justification for the shooting of Trevon Martin. The teenager was fleeing from him, not attacking him. Zimmerman appears to be the aggressor here, he can not invoke self defense with regards to this case.!,if the person was fleeing from him.!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He can, he was "injured". And he can claim the teenager killed attacked HIM. NO INVESTIGATION until the last few days. Evidence gets stale.........only public outcry got even FDLE involved.
Click to expand...


More then likely this will not get past the Grand Jury.

I seek comfort in the fact that God has the final say.


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
Click to expand...


The Seminole county Sheriff said SELF DEFENSE. As if a gun ever lost to a bag of skittles................................Zimmerman sure wasn't in "fear" when left his vehicle though.


----------



## 52ndStreet

Peach said:


> 52ndStreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Zimmerman will not be exonerated with regards to this case. If the telephone evidence is correct, this Zimmerman will be charged with murder. There was no real
> justification for the shooting of Trevon Martin. The teenager was fleeing from him, not attacking him. Zimmerman appears to be the aggressor here, he can not invoke self defense with regards to this case.!,if the person was fleeing from him.!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He can, he was "injured". And he can claim the teenager killed attacked HIM. NO INVESTIGATION until the last few days. Evidence gets stale.........only public outcry got even FDLE involved.
Click to expand...


He injured himself by way of attacking the teenanger Martin, and or tackleing him.
Those injures were not inflicted by Martin.


----------



## Peach

52ndStreet said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 52ndStreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Zimmerman will not be exonerated with regards to this case. If the telephone evidence is correct, this Zimmerman will be charged with murder. There was no real
> justification for the shooting of Trevon Martin. The teenager was fleeing from him, not attacking him. Zimmerman appears to be the aggressor here, he can not invoke self defense with regards to this case.!,if the person was fleeing from him.!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He can, he was "injured". And he can claim the teenager killed attacked HIM. NO INVESTIGATION until the last few days. Evidence gets stale.........only public outcry got even FDLE involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He injured himself by way of attacking the teenanger Martin, and or tackleing him.
> Those injures were not inflicted by Martin.
Click to expand...


Martin cannot testify, no blood test was done on the killer............................................. a sad, and sick situation.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Peach said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Seminole county Sheriff said SELF DEFENSE. As if a gun ever lost to a bag of skittles................................Zimmerman sure wasn't in "fear" when left his vehicle though.
Click to expand...


If those "wounds" were inflicted by Martin, I can't say that I would blame him at all. He was being harassed, he had the right to defend himself. Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Peach said:


> 52ndStreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> He can, he was "injured". And he can claim the teenager killed attacked HIM. NO INVESTIGATION until the last few days. Evidence gets stale.........only public outcry got even FDLE involved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He injured himself by way of attacking the teenanger Martin, and or tackleing him.
> Those injures were not inflicted by Martin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Martin cannot testify, no blood test was done on the killer............................................. a sad, and sick situation.
Click to expand...


Like I said, it won't make it past the grand jury. They may just throw the case out.

But judgment is coming...


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Seminole county Sheriff said SELF DEFENSE. As if a gun ever lost to a bag of skittles................................Zimmerman sure wasn't in "fear" when left his vehicle though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If those "wounds" were inflicted by Martin, I can't say that I would blame him at all. He was being harassed, he had the right to defend himself. Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle.
Click to expand...



Or left his ever present firearm there *YES.*


----------



## Sarah G

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, *we don't presume guilt.*  They are investigating, though, as they should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people seem to be presuming that the kid was guilty of ... _something_.
> 
> I asked a ways back on the thread
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening*.   Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their  ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no  obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would  be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *What crime was Trayvon committing?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe that was ever answered; maybe I missed it.
Click to expand...


Walking while Black.  Here is the audio, I just wanted to place it in here.  

Trayvon Martin 911 Call From Neighbors and Zimmerman (Audio) | Z6Mag


----------



## Peach

A month before any investigation begins, great job Seminole county.


----------



## LAfrique

*Weeks ago, 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is followed and later gunned down by self-elected neighborhood watchman, George Zimmerman, while walking to visit a relative. Zimmerman and friends allege Trayvon Martin was killed in self-defense. Trayvon Martin was found dead face down (implying he had been shot from behind) -

911 calls reveal 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had been running from George Zimmerman and begging for help from neighbors when he was shot cold-blooded. It has been almost a month since Trayvon Martin was unnecessarily and cold-bloodedly murdered and George Zimmerman has not been arrested or charged with any crime. 

What I find very funny is that George Zimmerman is said to be a criminal justice scholar with desire to protect his neighborhood (a cause I find of no fault): However, just how does a law scholar fail to realize that stalking an unarmed youth is harassment, and that shooting someone who has neither attacked you nor has your possession is not self-defense? 

I think George Zimmerman is either insane, or is a plain simpleton known to those around him and was coached to murder young Trayvon Martin. Thus, the parents of George Zimmerman, neighborhood watch group and gun licensing department who all deputized George Zimmerman and helped him to murder 17-year-old Trayvon Martin should all be held liable for the murder of Trayvon Martin. No one should be deserving of death for merely walking  down the streets of the US or any nation.  


Hate-filled, Hired man or Simpleton?* - George Zimmerman Neighbors Complained About Aggressive Tactics Before Trayvon Martin Killing


----------



## uptownlivin90

Sarah G said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, *we don't presume guilt.*  They are investigating, though, as they should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people seem to be presuming that the kid was guilty of ... _something_.
> 
> I asked a ways back on the thread
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What crime was Trayvon committing?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe that was ever answered; maybe I missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Walking while Black. * Here is the audio, I just wanted to place it in here.
> 
> Trayvon Martin 911 Call From Neighbors and Zimmerman (Audio) | Z6Mag
Click to expand...


I have been guilty of this.


----------



## syrenn

There is already a thread about this!


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> there is already a thread about this!



*more than one! *


----------



## Sarah G

uptownlivin90 said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people seem to be presuming that the kid was guilty of ... _something_.
> 
> I asked a ways back on the thread
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that was ever answered; maybe I missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Walking while Black. * Here is the audio, I just wanted to place it in here.
> 
> Trayvon Martin 911 Call From Neighbors and Zimmerman (Audio) | Z6Mag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been guilty of this.
Click to expand...


Did somebody shoot you for it?


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is already a thread about this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *more that one! *
Click to expand...



I think he may be blind or deaf..... Hopefully the larg font helps him


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people seem to be presuming that the kid was guilty of ... _something_.
> 
> I asked a ways back on the thread
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that was ever answered; maybe I missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Walking while Black. * Here is the audio, I just wanted to place it in here.
> 
> Trayvon Martin 911 Call From Neighbors and Zimmerman (Audio) | Z6Mag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been guilty of this.
Click to expand...



Zimmerman MAY have been looking for trouble. We do know know Martin died by his hand, until now, no investigation. Evidence lost.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Sarah G said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Walking while Black. * Here is the audio, I just wanted to place it in here.
> 
> Trayvon Martin 911 Call From Neighbors and Zimmerman (Audio) | Z6Mag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been guilty of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did somebody shoot you for it?
Click to expand...


By the grace of God, no.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Peach said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Walking while Black. * Here is the audio, I just wanted to place it in here.
> 
> Trayvon Martin 911 Call From Neighbors and Zimmerman (Audio) | Z6Mag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been guilty of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman MAY have been looking for trouble. We do know know Martin died by his hand, until now, no investigation. Evidence lost.
Click to expand...


Intentional? Maybe...


----------



## Sarah G

uptownlivin90 said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been guilty of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody shoot you for it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By the grace of God, no.
Click to expand...


The really difficult part to absorb is that this Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch person who wasn't even registered with any neighborhood watch programs anywhere.  He is just some goof off, walking around with a gun.  

He is saying it was self defense but the kid was 100 lbs. lighter than him and a teen.  I just don't believe the story as he told it.  Those cops should not have just let him go.


----------



## Peach

Sarah G said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did somebody shoot you for it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the grace of God, no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The really difficult part to absorb is that this Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch person who wasn't even registered with any neighborhood watch programs anywhere.  He is just some goof off, walking around with a gun.
> 
> He is saying it was self defense but the kid was 100 lbs. lighter than him and a teen.  I just don't believe the story as he told it.  Those cops should not have just let him go.
Click to expand...


And three weeks later evidence goes away; no concurrent blood tests, forensics could be tougher (firearm users would know about this), and Zimmerman is WHEREABOUTS UNKNOWN. Actually, does law enforcement even have the gun?


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is already a thread about this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *more that one! *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think he may be blind or deaf..... Hopefully the larg font helps him
Click to expand...


*No font is big enough to help stupid. *


----------



## Amelia

I will not be surprised if voice analysis shows  that it really was Zimmerman crying for help.

If a blustering bully  is stalking you and has you cornered, maybe you do try to muscle your way out of it.  Then the bully starts crying for help because he got in over his head.  And then the hysterical bully shoots.  

I could see it happening that way.



And then Zimmerman gets off, and then Zimmerman moves to a state where he'll be protected from people like himself.


----------



## Dante

LAfrique said:


> *Weeks ago, 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is followed and later gunned down by self-elected neighborhood watchman, George Zimmerman, while walking to visit a relative. Zimmerman and friends allege Trayvon Martin was killed in self-defense. Trayvon Martin was found dead face down (implying he had been shot from behind) -
> 
> 911 calls reveal 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had been running from George Zimmerman and begging for help from neighbors when he was shot cold-blooded. It has been almost a month since Trayvon Martin was unnecessarily and cold-bloodedly murdered and George Zimmerman has not been arrested or charged with any crime.
> 
> What I find very funny is that George Zimmerman is said to be a criminal justice scholar with desire to protect his neighborhood (a cause I find of no fault): However, just how does a law scholar fail to realize that stalking an unarmed youth is harassment, and that shooting someone who has neither attacked you nor has your possession is not self-defense?
> 
> I think George Zimmerman is either insane, or is a plain simpleton known to those around him and was coached to murder young Trayvon Martin. Thus, the parents of George Zimmerman, neighborhood watch group and gun licensing department who all deputized George Zimmerman and helped him to murder 17-year-old Trayvon Martin should all be held liable for the murder of Trayvon Martin. No one should be deserving of death for merely walking  down the streets of the US or any nation.
> 
> 
> Hate-filled, Hired man or Simpleton?* - George Zimmerman Neighbors Complained About Aggressive Tactics Before Trayvon Martin Killing


yawn


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> *more that one! *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he may be blind or deaf..... Hopefully the larg font helps him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *No font is big enough to help stupid. *
Click to expand...



*Hard to say.... it may be the font + bold that works for him. *


----------



## Sarah G

Peach said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the grace of God, no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The really difficult part to absorb is that this Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch person who wasn't even registered with any neighborhood watch programs anywhere.  He is just some goof off, walking around with a gun.
> 
> He is saying it was self defense but the kid was 100 lbs. lighter than him and a teen.  I just don't believe the story as he told it.  Those cops should not have just let him go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And three weeks later evidence goes away; no concurrent blood tests, forensics could be tougher (firearm users would know about this), and Zimmerman is WHEREABOUTS UNKNOWN. Actually, does law enforcement even have the gun?
Click to expand...


I don't know.  It seems like people care about this crime but he seems to be getting away with murder at this point.


----------



## California Girl

syrenn said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he may be blind or deaf..... Hopefully the larg font helps him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *No font is big enough to help stupid. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Hard to say.... it may be the font + bold that works for him. *
Click to expand...


*Maybe we should try a variety of colors too? *

*Or a different font?
*


----------



## syrenn

California Girl said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No font is big enough to help stupid. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hard to say.... it may be the font + bold that works for him. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Maybe we should try a variety of colors too? *
> 
> *Or a different font?
> *
Click to expand...



 Just think..... shades of Madeline may work!


----------



## Peach

Sarah G said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> The really difficult part to absorb is that this Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch person who wasn't even registered with any neighborhood watch programs anywhere.  He is just some goof off, walking around with a gun.
> 
> He is saying it was self defense but the kid was 100 lbs. lighter than him and a teen.  I just don't believe the story as he told it.  Those cops should not have just let him go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And three weeks later evidence goes away; no concurrent blood tests, forensics could be tougher (firearm users would know about this), and Zimmerman is WHEREABOUTS UNKNOWN. Actually, does law enforcement even have the gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know.  It seems like people care about this crime but he seems to be getting away with murder at this point.
Click to expand...


The investigation just got turned over to the SA yesterday or today I believe. Trayvon Martin's death was 2/26.


----------



## whitehall

Big print suggests outrage. Who do we see about the hundreds of Mex-citizens and one US Border Patrol officer killed with the illegal guns that the A.G. authorized? I know the incidents have no connection but it illustrates how fast the media can create outrage.


----------



## syrenn

whitehall said:


> Big print suggests outrage. Who do we see about the hundreds of Mex-citizens and one US Border Patrol officer killed with the illegal guns that the A.G. authorized? I know the incidents have no connection but it illustrates how fast the media can create outrage.





* You are not speaking loud enough for this thread. Sorry. *


----------



## Ariux

Zimmerman (the Latino shooter) was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head and had wet grass stains on his red jacket. He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon (the black attacker) attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.  A witness to the physical altercation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him up, while Zimmerman yelled for help.  One witness said he came upon the scene and saw Zimmerman on his back on the ground, which accords with statements by the police that he was covered in grass and blood.

Another black criminal taken off the street.


----------



## syrenn

Ariux said:


> Zimmerman (the Latino shooter) was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head and had wet grass stains on his red jacket. He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon (the black attacker) attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.  A witness to the physical altercation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him up, while Zimmerman yelled for help.  One witness said he came upon the scene and saw Zimmerman on his back on the ground, which accords with statements by the police that he was covered in grass and blood.
> 
> Another black criminal taken off the street.




That's the sprint... yell back.


----------



## Peach

Ariux said:


> Zimmerman (the Latino shooter) was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head and had wet grass stains on his red jacket. He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon (the black attacker) attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.  A witness to the physical altercation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him up, while Zimmerman yelled for help.  One witness said he came upon the scene and saw Zimmerman on his back on the ground, which accords with statements by the police that he was covered in grass and blood.
> 
> Another black criminal taken off the street.




Other witnesses say differently(.)


----------



## PredFan

LAfrique said:


> Hate-filled, Hired man or Simpleton?



The answer is: you are a simpleton.


----------



## syrenn

Peach said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman (the Latino shooter) was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head and had wet grass stains on his red jacket. He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon (the black attacker) attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.  A witness to the physical altercation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him up, while Zimmerman yelled for help.  One witness said he came upon the scene and saw Zimmerman on his back on the ground, which accords with statements by the police that he was covered in grass and blood.
> 
> Another black criminal taken off the street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other witnesses say differently(.)
Click to expand...




pppssssttt... peach. Why are you whispering?


----------



## Dante

this shit still going on?

fuck the teenager and fuck the man. a situation gone bad. that's all it is. nothing more nothing less. no racism, no nothing to wet yer panties over.

now STFU


----------



## Meister

*merged*


----------



## Peach

*Thanks meister.*


----------



## Emma

Ariux said:


> He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.



I hate to repeat myself, but ....



Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *He merely called 911, and according to him, he got out to read a sign and the Trayvon hit him from behind.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the beginning of the tape again. Listen to what zimmerman  says, listen for when the car door opens and zimmerman exits his  vehicle, and _think_ about what you just wrote here.
> 
> Oh... and take a look-see at the photos of where the confrontation and shooting took place.
Click to expand...


----------



## Peach

Emma said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to repeat myself, but ....
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *He merely called 911, and according to him, he got out to read a sign and the Trayvon hit him from behind.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen to the beginning of the tape again. Listen to what zimmerman  says, listen for when the car door opens and zimmerman exits his  vehicle, and _think_ about what you just wrote here.
> 
> Oh... and take a look-see at the photos of where the confrontation and shooting took place.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


And the various witness accounts.


----------



## KissMy

LAfrique said:


> White man shoots innocent black teen....



There was no "White Man" involved. Just two of Obama's favorite protected racist minorities voting blocks killing each other.


----------



## Sarah G

Dante said:


> this shit still going on?
> 
> fuck the teenager and fuck the man. a situation gone bad. that's all it is. nothing more nothing less. no racism, no nothing to wet yer panties over.
> 
> now STFU



Hey Dante, if you don't like it, you can just leave.  _Again._


----------



## Emma

Peach said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to repeat myself, but ....
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the beginning of the tape again. Listen to what zimmerman  says, listen for when the car door opens and zimmerman exits his  vehicle, and _think_ about what you just wrote here.
> 
> Oh... and take a look-see at the photos of where the confrontation and shooting took place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the various witness accounts.
Click to expand...


If zimmerman DID tell the police that, then at the very least he's a liar because the recording of his call makes that much clear. He no doubt lied to his own father too, who claimed zimmerman hadn't followed Martin. Then the 911 tapes are released. Ooops!!!


----------



## Dante

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> this shit still going on?
> 
> fuck the teenager and fuck the man. a situation gone bad. that's all it is. nothing more nothing less. no racism, no nothing to wet yer panties over.
> 
> now STFU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Dante, if you don't like it, you can just leave.  _Again._
Click to expand...


you wouldn't say that if I were a black teenager.


----------



## manifold

High_Gravity said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't that harassment or stalking from the other persons point of view?
Click to expand...


I don't really care.  And I'm pretty sure it's not against the law.


----------



## Peach

Emma said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to repeat myself, but ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the various witness accounts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If zimmerman DID tell the police that, then at the very least he's a liar because the recording of his call makes that much clear. He no doubt lied to his own father too, who claimed zimmerman hadn't followed Martin. Then the 911 tapes are released. Ooops!!!
Click to expand...


Shame this "INCIDENT" wasn't investigated when it occurred, ain't it?


----------



## manifold

uptownlivin90 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
Click to expand...


I don't give a shit what YOU want to call it.  Driving around MY OWN neighborhood is not a crime you fucking mental midget.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> this shit still going on?
> 
> fuck the teenager and fuck the man. a situation gone bad. that's all it is. nothing more nothing less. no racism, no nothing to wet yer panties over.
> 
> now STFU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Dante, if you don't like it, you can just leave.  _Again._
Click to expand...


Why should he leave?

You are the one with all the stupid statements and idiotic responses.

Who the fuck died and made you God anyway?

No one; its all part of your halucination that you amount to jack shit.


----------



## Peach

manifold said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a shit what YOU want to call it.  Driving around MY OWN neighborhood is not a crime you fucking mental midget.
Click to expand...



But WALKING is? And Zimmerman got OUT of the car, carrying of course.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Emma said:


> If zimmerman DID tell the police that, then at the very least he's a liar because the recording of his call makes that much clear. He no doubt lied to his own father too, who claimed zimmerman hadn't followed Martin. Then the 911 tapes are released. Ooops!!!



Except that that is not how it happened, you bald faced liar.

There is no proof that Zimmerman followed Trayvon on foot.

You just cant stand the thought that someone actually defended themselves, can you?

Stalinist twit.


----------



## manifold

Peach said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a shit what YOU want to call it.  Driving around MY OWN neighborhood is not a crime you fucking mental midget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But WALKING is? And Zimmerman got OUT of the car, carrying of course.
Click to expand...


Let me know if you take issue with what I actually said, not what you wanted to hear.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Dante said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> this shit still going on?
> 
> fuck the teenager and fuck the man. a situation gone bad. that's all it is. nothing more nothing less. no racism, no nothing to wet yer panties over.
> 
> now STFU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Dante, if you don't like it, you can just leave.  _Again._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you wouldn't say that if I were a black teenager.
Click to expand...


No, then he/she/it would kissing your ass.


----------



## Dante

manifold said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that harassment or stalking from the other persons point of view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really care.  And I'm pretty sure it's not against the law.
Click to expand...

I'm stalking people here @ USMB. It's a healthy past time.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a shit what YOU want to call it.  Driving around MY OWN neighborhood is not a crime you fucking mental midget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But WALKING is? And Zimmerman got OUT of the car, carrying of course.
Click to expand...


Oh, God.

And if he had left his gun unattended in his car you would want to fry him for that too.

Jesus.


----------



## Peach

manifold said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a shit what YOU want to call it.  Driving around MY OWN neighborhood is not a crime you fucking mental midget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But WALKING is? And Zimmerman got OUT of the car, carrying of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me know if you take issue with what I actually said, not what you wanted to hear.
Click to expand...


******************************************************
Driving around your neighborhood is NOT a crime. NOR is walking to a relative's house IN the neighborhood.


----------



## manifold

Peach said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> But WALKING is? And Zimmerman got OUT of the car, carrying of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if you take issue with what I actually said, not what you wanted to hear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ******************************************************
> Driving around your neighborhood is NOT a crime. NOR is walking to a relative's house IN the neighborhood.
Click to expand...


Nor did I say it was.

If you have a point, I trust you'll get to it by your third reply.


----------



## Ravi

Amelia said:


> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.


That's a good point. And if they are black and/or a teen they actually should look upon him as a threat.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If zimmerman DID tell the police that, then at the very least he's a liar because the recording of his call makes that much clear. He no doubt lied to his own father too, who claimed zimmerman hadn't followed Martin. Then the 911 tapes are released. Ooops!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except that that is not how it happened, you bald faced liar.
> 
> *There is no proof that Zimmerman followed Trayvon on foot.*
Click to expand...


Sure there is. 

I can understand you not being able to see your computer screen through all the angry spittle ... you must have spewed some into the speakers, too.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point. And if they are black and/or a teen they actually should look upon him as a threat.
Click to expand...


projections. 

by all reports the Hispanic man Zimmerman is not a racist or afraid of black teens.


----------



## Ravi

Peach said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Seminole county Sheriff said SELF DEFENSE. As if a gun ever lost to a bag of skittles................................Zimmerman sure wasn't in "fear" when left his vehicle though.
Click to expand...


Another good point. If he really feared the kid, he would have rolled down his window and shot him.


----------



## bayoubill

same crap, different generation...

"evil man make me wanna kill you... evil man make you kill me..."  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK92W2RzbjE]Vietnam War ( Machine Gun - Jimi Hendrix ) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dante

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a shit what YOU want to call it.  Driving around MY OWN neighborhood is not a crime you fucking mental midget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But WALKING is? And Zimmerman got OUT of the car, carrying of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, God.
> 
> And if he had left his gun unattended in his car you would want to fry him for that too.
> 
> Jesus.
Click to expand...


lots of people in community told a public radio reporter that Zimmerman was no gun happy nut. In fact no one thought he was weird. He seems to be so normal. People like Ravi are projecting their hatred and white guilt on others (Ravi has mixed race ?)


----------



## Sarah G

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point. And if they are black and/or a teen they actually should look upon him as a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> projections.
> 
> by all reports the Hispanic man Zimmerman is not a racist or afraid of black teens.
Click to expand...


Of course not, he was just a hater.  I think that is what he will be charged with, hate crime.


----------



## Peach

Ravi said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's called stalking. You can watch them to insure the safety of your property. You very well could ask them where they are going out of concern. However you cannot "follow" someone you think is suspicious if they are not on your property. If that was the case any old stalker can just say "well I stalked them because they were suspicious". That's stupidity. Zimmerman was advised not to follow the boy, because that's harassment.
> 
> I shouldn't be followed and stalked by random people walking down the street because they think I look "suspicious", ESPECIALLY in a car because following someone is considered a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Seminole county Sheriff said SELF DEFENSE. As if a gun ever lost to a bag of skittles................................Zimmerman sure wasn't in "fear" when left his vehicle though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another good point. If he really feared the kid, he would have rolled down his window and shot him.
Click to expand...



The self defense posters indicate somehow the VICTIM attacked him; hard to do if he was INSIDE the vehicle. The got outside to "look at a road sign" bit is just as bad.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.
> 
> Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point. And if they are black and/or a teen they actually should look upon him as a threat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> projections.
> 
> by all reports the Hispanic man Zimmerman is not a racist or afraid of black teens.
Click to expand...

So why did he shoot an unarmed teen?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> Driving around your neighborhood is NOT a crime. NOR is walking to a relative's house IN the neighborhood.



True. 

But that has nothing to do with the incident or the law associated with it.


----------



## bayoubill

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point. And if they are black and/or a teen they actually should look upon him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> projections.
> 
> by all reports the Hispanic man Zimmerman is not a racist or afraid of black teens.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, he was just a hater.  I think that is what he will be charged with, hate crime.
Click to expand...


I hate haters...


----------



## Peach

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Driving around your neighborhood is NOT a crime. NOR is walking to a relative's house IN the neighborhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> But that has nothing to do with the incident or the law associated with it.
Click to expand...


The Chapter is 776.


----------



## Rozman

The guy looks Hispanic to me...
Doesn't change anything.
Except disappoint a few here.


----------



## Dante

Blacks demanding an arrest. On what charges?

and news says community demands this. what community? not the mixed race gated community this happened in.

people are stupid


----------



## bayoubill

how 'bout a tune for no particular reason 'cept that I wanna post it...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA1oFSMwRDU&feature=related]Psycho Killer (Live 1984) [HD] - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Peach

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point. And if they are black and/or a teen they actually should look upon him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> projections.
> 
> by all reports the Hispanic man Zimmerman is not a racist or afraid of black teens.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, he was just a hater.  I think that is what he will be charged with, hate crime.
Click to expand...


By some reports he called 911 about open windows & garage doors; not playing with a full deck might cross some peoples' minds.


----------



## rdean

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...


I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.


----------



## Dante

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point. And if they are black and/or a teen they actually should look upon him as a threat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> projections.
> 
> by all reports the Hispanic man Zimmerman is not a racist or afraid of black teens.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, he was just a hater.  I think that is what he will be charged with, hate crime.
Click to expand...


there is no evidence the man was a racist. he will not go to jail. he is innocent. an innocent man died, but that doesn't make this a crime. 

take a law course, or better yet, turn off your internet


----------



## bayoubill

'nother tune...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awi14wDTxNw]the doors people are strange - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bayoubill

rdean said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.
Click to expand...


I suspect you don''t know your ass from a hole in the ground...


----------



## Intense

Florida police are under mounting pressure to arrest self-appointed neighbourhood watch volunteer who shot dead an unarmed teenager following dramatic new evidence from the victim's girlfriend.

The family of Trayvon Martin, 17, say the account from his girlfriend completely contradicts his killer's self-defence claim.

In a dramatic press conference on Tuesday, the Martin family's lawyer Benjamin Crump detailed how the unnamed girl &#8211; a minor who was so traumatised by Martin's death she was taken to hospital at his wake &#8211; was talking to him on his cell phone in the minutes leading up to his death, and heard the altercation with his killer.







Martin, 17, was shot by Hispanic volunteer watch captain George Zimmerman, who spotted the teenager while patrolling the neighbourhood on a rainy evening in February. Zimmerman, 28, claims he shot the teenager with his licensed 9mm handgun in self-defence during a confrontation.

Trayvon Martin: new evidence contradicts killer's self-defence claim, family says | World news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Dante

rdean said:


> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.



I'm a liberal. I'm a former Dem party member (elected). I live in a black hood. I'm not a racist. 

I think most white people are morons when it comes to race. This case, what case...there is no crime, just an accident


----------



## Dante

the phone went dead .. no pun intended .. and the girl heard NO shot



Intense said:


> Florida police are under mounting pressure to arrest self-appointed neighbourhood watch volunteer who shot dead an unarmed teenager following dramatic new evidence from the victim's girlfriend.
> 
> The family of Trayvon Martin, 17, say the account from his girlfriend completely contradicts his killer's self-defence claim.
> 
> In a dramatic press conference on Tuesday, the Martin family's lawyer Benjamin Crump detailed how the unnamed girl  a minor who was so traumatised by Martin's death she was taken to hospital at his wake  was talking to him on his cell phone in the minutes leading up to his death, and heard the altercation with his killer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin, 17, was shot by Hispanic volunteer watch captain George Zimmerman, who spotted the teenager while patrolling the neighbourhood on a rainy evening in February. Zimmerman, 28, claims he shot the teenager with his licensed 9mm handgun in self-defence during a confrontation.
> 
> Trayvon Martin: new evidence contradicts killer's self-defence claim, family says | World news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## Intense

Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal. I'm a former Dem party member (elected). I live in a black hood. I'm not a racist.
> 
> I think most white people are morons when it comes to race. This case, what case...there is no crime, just an accident
Click to expand...


Stop babbling, it's your turn to get the Malt Liquor. Stop stalling already.


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> projections.
> 
> by all reports the Hispanic man Zimmerman is not a racist or afraid of black teens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, he was just a hater.  I think that is what he will be charged with, hate crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By some reports he called 911 about open windows & garage doors; not playing with a full deck might cross some peoples' minds.
Click to expand...


living in a crime filled hood, I'd love the guy for a neighbor. So would most normal people.


----------



## Peach

bayoubill said:


> 'nother tune...
> 
> the doors people are strange - YouTube



I'd prefer Like A Hurricane from American Stars and Bars. Been thinking of it since the posts about the Confederate flags.


----------



## Dante

Intense said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal. I'm a former Dem party member (elected). I live in a black hood. I'm not a racist.
> 
> I think most white people are morons when it comes to race. This case, what case...there is no crime, just an accident
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop babbling, it's your turn to get the Malt Liquor. Stop stalling already.
Click to expand...


_hiccup .. buuuurp ... I think I smell poop and my legs fell asleep ..  waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah_, mommie!


----------



## Amelia

Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal. I'm a former Dem party member (elected). I live in a black hood. I'm not a racist.
> 
> I think most white people are morons when it comes to race. This case, what case...there is no crime, just an accident
Click to expand...




One of my dad's favorite sayings was, "Accidents don't happen.  They're caused."

Hard to think of a situation where it fits better.  This was not JUST an accident.


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, he was just a hater.  I think that is what he will be charged with, hate crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By some reports he called 911 about open windows & garage doors; not playing with a full deck might cross some peoples' minds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> living in a crime filled hood, I'd love the guy for a neighbor. So would most normal people.
Click to expand...


Thus, I'm glad not to be "normal"; unless thinking about Neil Young constantly is a SIGN of something.....................................................................


----------



## rdean

They played the tape of the boy screaming for help and for his life.  Then the gunshot.  The child was armed with "iced tea and Skittles".  But he was black.

As for the shooter being "Hispanic", that's unclear.  He may have referred to himself as "white".


----------



## Peach

rdean said:


> They played the tape of the boy screaming for help and for his life.  Then the gunshot.  The child was armed with "iced tea and Skittles".  But he was black.
> 
> As for the shooter being "Hispanic", that's unclear.  He may have referred to himself as "white".



rdean, be thankful FDLE will attempt an actual INVESTIGATION.


----------



## Dante

rdean said:


> They played the tape of the boy screaming for help and for his life.  Then the gunshot.  The child was armed with "iced tea and Skittles".  But he was black.
> 
> As for the shooter being "Hispanic", that's unclear.  He may have referred to himself as "white".



did you hear the same tape as everyone else?  


there was very little on that tape.  if the kid started to fight and a gun was pulled, it's only a bad situation gone worse.

why did the kid try to run? what was he afraid of? the man who shot wasn't all that violent or ever accused of being a racist?  lost of questions, for busybodies like you to make a case.

no crime, no charges. self defense. fuck Sharpton : Tawana Brawley


----------



## bayoubill

Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal. I'm a former Dem party member (elected). I live in a black hood. I'm not a racist.
> 
> I think most white people are morons when it comes to race. This case, what case...there is no crime, just an accident
Click to expand...


I'm a conservative libertarian... for 'bout a dozen years, I lived in an urban lower-income neighborhood where I was one of the few white faces to be seen... got along fine with the folks there... good upstanding people... we watched out for one another, and had no patience with outside troublemakers, black or white, who occasionally would pass through the neighborhood... 

I nowadays sometimes go back to visit a few of the folks that still live in the old neighborhood from back then... we don't much like to talk about the way things are nowadays between black folks and white folks...

I miss the old neighborhood...


----------



## Dante

bayoubill said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal. I'm a former Dem party member (elected). I live in a black hood. I'm not a racist.
> 
> I think most white people are morons when it comes to race. This case, what case...there is no crime, just an accident
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm a conservative libertarian... for 'bout a dozen years, I lived in an urban lower-income neighborhood where I was one of the few white faces to be seen... got along fine with the folks there... good upstanding people... we watched out for one another, and had no patience with outside troublemakers, black or white, who occasionally would pass through the neighborhood...
> 
> I nowadays sometimes go back to visit a few of the folks that still live in the old neighborhood from back then... we don't much like to talk about the way things are nowadays between black folks and white folks...
> 
> I miss the old neighborhood...
Click to expand...


I was asked by a neighbor if I ever used the term '******' and I replied, I did, but tried never to use the term against another person. I am not viewed as a racist by most all minorities I know. I'll take that over the view of some white middle class nitwit on an anonymous internet message board.

In life, I try not to belittle other people...but in virtual reality...


----------



## The Gadfly

Look, people, instead of screaming charges and counter charges, and making wild and mostly unsubstantiated allegations, let's ask some questions that have not been answered,or on which there are contradictory accounts. Then let's see what if any , factual answers exist to any of these.

(1) At the beginning of the initial 911 call, Zimmerman is apparently in his vehicle. At precisely what point did Zimmerman exit the vehicle, and why?

(2) Did Martin confront Zimmerman, or did Zimmerman confront Martin ?

(3) Witness testimony indicates there was a physical altercation between Martin and Zimmerman. Which one initiated use of physical force, and why?

(4) Whose voice is heard screaming for help on the 911 tape?

(5) Zimmerman was carrying a handgun. Was it concealed?  

(6) If the gun was carried concealed, at what point did Zimmerman either inform Martin that he was armed, or first draw the gun?

(7) Martin fell face down after he was shot. Was he shot from the front, or the back?

(8) Two witnesses state they saw Zimmerman on the ground before the shot was fired. There are three ways he could have reasonably got there (a) he tripped and fell (b) Martin nocked or wrestled him to the ground, or (c) Zimmerman tackled or tried to tackle Martin. Which is most consistent with the witness accounts and the physical evidence?

(9) What were/are the actual height and weight of each of the two subjects?

(10) Zimmerman is described by a witness as having blood on his face and the back of his head. What were Zimmerman's actual apparent injuries?

(11) Presumably, an autopsy was performed on Martin. Did Martin have any other injuries besides a gunshot wound (such as bruises and/or abrasions on his knuckles or elsewhere)? Were there any other relevant autopsy findings?

(12) What physical evidence, if any, was collected at the scene? If none, why not?

(13) Did Zimmerman have alcohol on his breath, or appear impaired in any way? If so, was a field sobriety test and or a breath test administered? If not, why?

(14) Is Zimmerman's account of the events as given to officers consistent with the 911 tapes (in their entirety), the statements of  the witnesses, and the physical evidence at the scene? In what respects , if any is it inconsistent with any of these?

Note that all these questions should be answered by even a basic on-scene police investigation, interviews with witnesses, basic forensics, and autopsy findings on the victim. They are basic to determining the veracity (or lack thereof), of Zimmerman's account of the incident, and to a preliminary determination as to whether Martin's death was most likely a case of self-defense, or a wrongful homicide. Yet virtually none of these answers, required in even a basic death investigation, have been disclosed by either the Seminole County Sheriff, or the Sanford Police Department. Why not?

As I see it, those are the most basic and impartial questions. Many of the answers should be contained in the initial incident report(s) of the responding officer(s). Are they? If not, why not?


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> They played the tape of the boy screaming for help and for his life.  Then the gunshot.  The child was armed with "iced tea and Skittles".  But he was black.
> 
> As for the shooter being "Hispanic", that's unclear.  He may have referred to himself as "white".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you hear the same tape as everyone else?
> 
> 
> there was very little on that tape.  if the kid started to fight and a gun was pulled, it's only a bad situation gone worse.
> 
> why did the kid try to run? what was he afraid of? the man who shot wasn't all that violent or ever accused of being a racist?  lost of questions, for busybodies like you to make a case.
> 
> no crime, no charges. self defense. fuck Sharpton : Tawana Brawley
Click to expand...


Zimmerman was once arrested for attacking a cop.

Not violent?

Why did the kid try to run? You can't be this stupid....oh, wait.


----------



## Peach

The Gadfly said:


> Look, people, instead of screaming charges and counter charges, and making wild and mostly unsubstantiated allegations, let's ask some questions that have not been answered,or on which there are contradictory accounts. Then let's see what if any , factual answers exist to any of these.
> 
> (1) At the beginning of the initial 911 call, Zimmerman is apparently in his vehicle. At precisely what point did Zimmerman exit the vehicle, and why?
> 
> (2) Did Martin confront Zimmerman, or did Zimmerman confront Martin ?
> 
> (3) Witness testimony indicates there was a physical altercation between Martin and Zimmerman. Which one initiated use of physical force, and why?
> 
> (4) Whose voice is heard screaming for help on the 911 tape?
> 
> (5) Zimmerman was carrying a handgun. Was it concealed?
> 
> (6) If the gun was carried concealed, at what point did Zimmerman either inform Martin that he was armed, or first draw the gun?
> 
> (7) Martin fell face down after he was shot. Was he shot from the front, or the back?
> 
> (8) Two witnesses state they saw Zimmerman on the ground before the shot was fired. There are three ways he could have reasonably got there (a) he tripped and fell (b) Martin nocked or wrestled him to the ground, or (c) Zimmerman tackled or tried to tackle Martin. Which is most consistent with the witness accounts and the physical evidence?
> 
> (9) What were/are the actual height and weight of each of the two subjects?
> 
> (10) Zimmerman is described by a witness as having blood on his face and the back of his head? What were Zimmerman's actual apparent injuries?
> 
> (11) Presumably, and autopsy was performed on Martin. Did Martin have any other injuries besides a gunshot wound (such as bruises and/or abrasions on his knuckles or elsewhere)?
> 
> (12) What physical evidence, if any, was collected at the scene? If none, why not?
> 
> (13) Did Zimmerman have alcohol on his breath, or appear impaired in any way? If so, was a field sobriety test and or a breath test administered? If not, why?
> 
> (14) Is Zimmerman's account of the events as given to officers consistent with the 911 tapes (in their entirety), the statements of  the witnesses, and the physical evidence at the scene? In what respects , if any is it inconsistent with any of these?
> 
> Note that all these questions should be answered by even a basic on-scene police investigation, interviews with witnesses, basic forensics, and autopsy findings on the victim. They are basic to determining the veracity (or lack thereof), of Zimmerman's account of the incident, and to a preliminary determination as to whether Martin's death was most likely a case of self-defense, or a wrongful homicide. Yet virtually none of these answers, required in even a basic death investigation, have been disclosed by either the Seminole County Sheriff, or the Sanford Police Department. Why not?
> 
> As I see it, those are the most basic and impartial questions. Many of the answers should be contained in the initial incident report(s) of the responding officer(s). Are they? If not, why not?



The Seminole county Sheriff's Department did not do a COMPLETE investigation; FDLE has the resources to do so. Thus, it should get done; DOJ & FBI may make it take longer. A lot of toes steppin' on each other.


----------



## Sarah G

Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> They played the tape of the boy screaming for help and for his life.  Then the gunshot.  The child was armed with "iced tea and Skittles".  But he was black.
> 
> As for the shooter being "Hispanic", that's unclear.  He may have referred to himself as "white".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you hear the same tape as everyone else?
> 
> 
> there was very little on that tape.  if the kid started to fight and a gun was pulled, it's only a bad situation gone worse.
> 
> why did the kid try to run? what was he afraid of? the man who shot wasn't all that violent or ever accused of being a racist?  lost of questions, for busybodies like you to make a case.
> 
> no crime, no charges. self defense. fuck Sharpton : Tawana Brawley
Click to expand...


He didn't run at first, his girlfriend told him to run but he said no, he was just walking faster.  If you had a creep like that stalking you, your first instinct might be to run though.

One bad thing to come out of all this is the neighborhood watch programs will be under scrutiny.  Just because some skittish hot dog had to play gun slinger.


----------



## Peach

Sarah G said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> They played the tape of the boy screaming for help and for his life.  Then the gunshot.  The child was armed with "iced tea and Skittles".  But he was black.
> 
> As for the shooter being "Hispanic", that's unclear.  He may have referred to himself as "white".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you hear the same tape as everyone else?
> 
> 
> there was very little on that tape.  if the kid started to fight and a gun was pulled, it's only a bad situation gone worse.
> 
> why did the kid try to run? what was he afraid of? the man who shot wasn't all that violent or ever accused of being a racist?  lost of questions, for busybodies like you to make a case.
> 
> no crime, no charges. self defense. fuck Sharpton : Tawana Brawley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He didn't run at first, his girlfriend told him to run but he said no, he was just walking faster.  If you had a creep like that stalking you, your first instinct might be to run though.
> 
> One bad thing to come out of all this is the neighborhood watch programs will be under scrutiny.  Just because some skittish hot dog had to play gun slinger.
Click to expand...



Someone in law enforcement posted on that, a wannabe cop. That is why an investigation is necessary.


----------



## Intense

It is about Justice, not Politics, not Race.


----------



## alan1

Dot Com said:


> without having read much of the story, that small black kid looks harmless.



Yeah, 3 month old kittens look harmless also  My youngest daughter had to get anti-rabies shots after being bitten by a sweet young kitten.
Seriously?  Are you basing your opinion on looks?


----------



## Intense

alan1 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> without having read much of the story, that small black kid looks harmless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, 3 month old kittens look harmless also  My youngest daughter had to get anti-rabies shots after being bitten by a sweet young kitten.
> Seriously?  Are you basing your opinion on looks?
Click to expand...


Are you basing the outcome of a Homicide Investigation on Kittens?


----------



## alan1

Sarah G said:


> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?



Gee, I don't know, maybe because Mr Zimmerman didn't need help anymore.


----------



## alan1

Intense said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> without having read much of the story, that small black kid looks harmless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, 3 month old kittens look harmless also  My youngest daughter had to get anti-rabies shots after being bitten by a sweet young kitten.
> Seriously?  Are you basing your opinion on looks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you basing the outcome of a Homicide Investigation on Kittens?
Click to expand...


Nope (and you know better than that), just pointing out that you can't judge a person or a kitten by their looks.
Unlike the indication made in the post I quoted.


----------



## yidnar

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...

 absolutely not !!! thousands of whites are murdered by blacks in America every yr !!! whites killing blacks is a much rarer crime that blacks killing whites !!


----------



## Sarah G

alan1 said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, I don't know, maybe because Mr Zimmerman didn't need help anymore.
Click to expand...


Mr. FatFuck Zimmerman outweighed the kid by a hundred pounds and he had a gun.  The kid had skittles and an ice tea.

Even you can't be this obtuse.


----------



## Salt Jones

yidnar said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> absolutely not !!! thousands of whites are murdered by blacks in America every yr !!! whites killing blacks is a much rarer crime that blacks killing whites !!
Click to expand...


And yet they haven't got you.






Yet.


----------



## Dante

Sarah G said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, I don't know, maybe because Mr Zimmerman didn't need help anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mr. FatFuck Zimmerman outweighed the kid by a hundred pounds and he had a gun.  The kid had skittles and an ice tea.
> 
> Even you can't be this obtuse.
Click to expand...


you are truly a moron. you haven't an inkling of an idea what went down between the two people.

you are delusional.


----------



## alan1

Sarah G said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, if it was Zimmerman calling for help, why did the yelling stop after the shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, I don't know, maybe because Mr Zimmerman didn't need help anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mr. FatFuck Zimmerman outweighed the kid by a hundred pounds and he had a gun.  The kid had skittles and an ice tea.
> 
> Even you can't be this obtuse.
Click to expand...


Does personal size, weapons and skittles determine guilt in our judicial system, or just in your mind?  Rhetorical question, I already know the answer to that.


----------



## yidnar

Salt Jones said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> absolutely not !!! thousands of whites are murdered by blacks in America every yr !!! whites killing blacks is a much rarer crime that blacks killing whites !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet they haven't got you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet.
Click to expand...

they have tried !!! but you see i am a full grown white man !!!  if you think we are not superior to you how do you think we enslaved you !!


----------



## Peach

Salt Jones said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> 
> 
> absolutely not !!! thousands of whites are murdered by blacks in America every yr !!! whites killing blacks is a much rarer crime that blacks killing whites !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet they haven't got you.
> 
> 
> Yet.
Click to expand...


The amorphous "they". An unarmed teenager killed by a man who "patrols" his gated community, *calls 911 on the average of 12 or more times a month, about open windows, and garage doors not being shut, is gonna get media attention.* PARTICULARLY when the Sheriff's department  writes it off as self defense without an investigation, gathers no evidence, and appears unconcerned.


----------



## manifold

lmao @ Dante soundly bitch slapping the knee-jerk, biased nitwits around.

*standing O*


----------



## Peach

manifold said:


> lmao @ Dante soundly bitch slapping the knee-jerk, biased nitwits around.
> 
> *standing O*



Grand Jury to be called in.


----------



## manifold

Peach said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> lmao @ Dante soundly bitch slapping the knee-jerk, biased nitwits around.
> 
> *standing O*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Jury to be called in.
Click to expand...


Now go knowledge up on what grand juries are for.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

All that matters is Zimmerman perceived a threat, the law does not compel him to explain or justify it; the law presumes a threat existed and deadly force in self-defense warranted.


----------



## The Gadfly

Peach said:


> The Seminole county Sheriff's Department did not do a COMPLETE investigation; FDLE has the resources to do so. Thus, it should get done; DOJ & FBI may make it take longer. A lot of toes steppin' on each other.



Peach, who was the original investigating agency? I thought that was the Sanford, FL PD. What did they do/not do? when and how did the seminole County Sheriff's Department get involved? With all the departments involved, and all the charges, counter-charges, and political posturing going on, this thing has more twists and turns than a wiggle worm on hot asphalt.  I'm having a hard time discerning what agency did what, and when. Is the FDLE (which I guess is the FL equivalent of our State Law Enforcement Division (SLED) here) now the lead agency on this case? Did they ask for FBI assistance, or did the feds invite themselves in?


----------



## bodecea

yidnar said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> absolutely not !!! thousands of whites are murdered by blacks in America every yr !!! whites killing blacks is a much rarer crime that blacks killing whites !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet they haven't got you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they have tried !!! but you see i am a full grown white man !!!  if you think we are not superior to you how do you think we enslaved you !!
Click to expand...


A fine representative of the Right, you are.


----------



## Crackerjack

bodecea said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet they haven't got you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet.
> 
> 
> 
> they have tried !!! but you see i am a full grown white man !!!  if you think we are not superior to you how do you think we enslaved you !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A fine representative of the Right, you are.
Click to expand...

He'd have to gain acceptance to the human race first.


----------



## Dante

manifold said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> lmao @ Dante soundly bitch slapping the knee-jerk, biased nitwits around.
> 
> *standing O*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Jury to be called in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now go knowledge up on what grand juries are for.
Click to expand...


_and what they do._


----------



## Salt Jones

yidnar said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> absolutely not !!! thousands of whites are murdered by blacks in America every yr !!! whites killing blacks is a much rarer crime that blacks killing whites !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet they haven't got you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they have tried !!! but you see i am a full grown white man !!!  if you think we are not superior to you how do you think we enslaved you !!
Click to expand...


Yet we can get the FBI and DOJ involved in the shooting of black teenager and you get squat over a burned white boy.


----------



## Dante

girlfriend says she hear over phone...

teen says "Why you following me?"

man says "What you doing around here?"

----

that settles it, the man started a fight, he's guilty., lynch him


----------



## del

rdean said:


> I suspect more Republicans are on the side of the shooter than the child who was killed.



i suspect you're a fucking idiot


----------



## Ariux

Sarah G said:


> Mr. FatFuck Zimmerman outweighed the kid by a hundred pounds and he had a gun.  The kid had skittles and an ice tea.
> 
> Even you can't be this obtuse.



Then the skinny black kid was really stupid for trying to jump Zimmerman.   Give the boy a Darwin award, and good riddance.


----------



## bodecea

Ariux said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. FatFuck Zimmerman outweighed the kid by a hundred pounds and he had a gun.  The kid had skittles and an ice tea.
> 
> Even you can't be this obtuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the skinny black kid was really stupid for trying to jump Zimmerman.   Give the boy a Darwin award, and good riddance.
Click to expand...


I beg your pardon?


----------



## uptownlivin90

Ariux said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. FatFuck Zimmerman outweighed the kid by a hundred pounds and he had a gun.  The kid had skittles and an ice tea.
> 
> Even you can't be this obtuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the skinny black kid was really stupid for trying to jump Zimmerman.   Give the boy a Darwin award, and good riddance.
Click to expand...



You and the various others who have made these kinds of remarks, please don't be surprised on judgment day when this is thrown back in your face.

This was somebody's child.

Not one of you is big bold and bad enough to say this in front of the man's father. It must make you all feel real good to sit here and speak ill of a dead teenager with a keyboard behind a computer screen.

It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.


----------



## uptownlivin90

yidnar said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> absolutely not !!! thousands of whites are murdered by blacks in America every yr !!! whites killing blacks is a much rarer crime that blacks killing whites !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet they haven't got you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they have tried !!! but you see i am a full grown white man !!!  if you think we are not superior to you how do you think we enslaved you !!
Click to expand...




> they have tried !!!



I absolutely cannot imagine WHY ON EARTH any black person would want to do you any harm whatsoever...

...it's completely beyond me...WELL...

...it was until I read this:



> if you think we are not superior to you how do you think we enslaved you !!



Then it became a little clearer.

Just a thought, I personally could care less about whether or not you're an inbred bigot. Unfortunately not all African Americans and not all people for that matter have the same tolerance for stupidity that I have been blessed with. 

Explains a lot.


----------



## Salt Jones

uptownlivin90 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. FatFuck Zimmerman outweighed the kid by a hundred pounds and he had a gun.  The kid had skittles and an ice tea.
> 
> Even you can't be this obtuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the skinny black kid was really stupid for trying to jump Zimmerman.   Give the boy a Darwin award, and good riddance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You and the various others who have made these kinds of remarks, please don't be surprised on judgment day when this is thrown back in your face.
> 
> This was somebody's child.
> 
> Not one of you is big bold and bad enough to say this in front of the man's father. It must make you all feel real good to sit here and speak ill of a dead teenager with a keyboard behind a computer screen.
> 
> It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.
Click to expand...


You can say ******, it's free speech. You can't say the c-word, it's a vile, tasteless uncalled for word.


----------



## Ariux

uptownlivin90 said:


> This was somebody's child.



That child was a criminal who got shot trying to harm someone.



> Not one of you is big bold and bad enough to say this in front of the man's father.



Are the paternity test results in?



> It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.



He sure wasn't a cracker.


----------



## Salt Jones

Ariux said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was somebody's child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That child was a criminal who got shot trying to harm someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not one of you is big bold and bad enough to say this in front of the man's father.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are the paternity test results in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He sure wasn't a cracker.
Click to expand...


Really?

Wow. You are really hardcore.


----------



## Dot Com

Ariux is going to make a lot of friends here


----------



## bodecea

Ariux said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was somebody's child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That child was a criminal who got shot trying to harm someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not one of you is big bold and bad enough to say this in front of the man's father.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are the paternity test results in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He sure wasn't a cracker.
Click to expand...


Ah, just an ignorant troll.


----------



## bodecea

Dot Com said:


> Ariux is going to make a lot of friends here



He WILL make some...on the down low.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ariux said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was somebody's child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That child was a criminal who got shot trying to harm someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not one of you is big bold and bad enough to say this in front of the man's father.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are the paternity test results in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He sure wasn't a cracker.
Click to expand...


Hey..........just to clarify things for other posters about you, I've got a suggestion............

Change your avi to something that more appropriately describes you, such as you at your latest KKK rally wearing the robes of a Grand Wizard or whatever rank you are.

It would help us to get to know you better.

Douche.


----------



## Crackerjack

Ariux said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was somebody's child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That child was a criminal who got shot trying to harm someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not one of you is big bold and bad enough to say this in front of the man's father.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are the paternity test results in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He sure wasn't a cracker.
Click to expand...

StormFront must be down tonight.


----------



## Dante

Dante said:


> news reports not telling whole story
> 
> true story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.
> 
> and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.
> 
> hello?
> 
> neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others
Click to expand...


----------



## Dante

Crackerjack said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was somebody's child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That child was a criminal who got shot trying to harm someone.
> 
> 
> 
> Are the paternity test results in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's just one less n*gger to you bigots, though. Some people will just never grow up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He sure wasn't a cracker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> StormFront must be down tonight.
Click to expand...


I have a sock puppet over there. But he's deep. HE's a sleeper


----------



## Ariux

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey..........just to clarify things for other posters about you, I've got a suggestion............
> 
> Change your avi to something that more appropriately describes you, such as you at your latest KKK rally wearing the robes of a Grand Wizard or whatever rank you are.
> 
> It would help us to get to know you better.
> 
> Douche.



Thank you for the advice.  You should sign your posts with something that shows some self-respect.


----------



## Dante

uptownlivin90 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.
> 
> Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:
> 
> *The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime).* The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harassment is a crime.
Click to expand...


too bad no one was being harassed.

okay, lynch mob is called off. Everyone can go back to their pathetic lives.

this tragedy will remain not yours.

dD


----------



## Dante

manifold said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone is not a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
Click to expand...


That's how I found an internet stalker near the old Dante home. 

Hat-trick thought all of Copley Square was his home. And he recognized me right off the bat, while walking with his girlfriend. 

I always watch out for the area around where I live. Always.


----------



## Dante

High_Gravity said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't that harassment or stalking from the other persons point of view?
Click to expand...


only to a nitwit,


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ariux said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey..........just to clarify things for other posters about you, I've got a suggestion............
> 
> Change your avi to something that more appropriately describes you, such as you at your latest KKK rally wearing the robes of a Grand Wizard or whatever rank you are.
> 
> It would help us to get to know you better.
> 
> Douche.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the advice.  You should sign your posts with something that shows some self-respect.
Click to expand...


Really?  Are you going to teach me how to be a bigoted, jack booted, bald headed, cock smoking colon jouster like you?

Where do I sign up for the lobotomy?

/sarcasm.


----------



## Old Rocks

theHawk said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to one caller, she is quite hysterical the whole time but she does say on two occasions(at about 21:30 and 23:43 in that link) the two men were wrestling with each other on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I really don't care what the parents of either party has to say, none of them witnessed it.
> 
> I was simply pointed out that an actual eye witness stated that the two men were wrestling with each other.
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
Click to expand...


I see. A person is 17 years old, and being followed by a much larger man. That man confronts him, and points a gun at him. But if he tries to take the gun away from him, the big guy has every right to shoot him? Are you totally out of your mind?


----------



## Ariux

Old Rocks said:


> I see. A person is 17 years old, and being followed by a much larger man. That man confronts him, and points a gun at him. But if he tries to take the gun away from him, the big guy has every right to shoot him? Are you totally out of your mind?



The black attacked the man, the man has the right to defend himself.  The black probably didn't know his victim had a gun, until he was eating lead.


----------



## George Costanza

This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.


----------



## Ariux

George Costanza said:


> This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.



Criminals getting shot rather than non-criminals being beaten or killed?  

The law should require that a gun be in every home (of a non-felon).


----------



## Dante

George Costanza said:


> This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.



or when people start to have a physical confrontation rather than argue. 

either the young man or the Hispanic guy started a fight that got out of hand. Ended up a tragedy. Guns are not the issue.


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
Click to expand...



Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN.com 


> Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who was the prime House sponsor of the deadly force legislation, told CNN Tuesday that "nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront."



Not for nothing, an unarmed teenager has more reason to feel threatened than the "grown up" following him around the neighborhood with a gun.


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost.  I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that harassment or stalking from the other persons point of view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> only to a nitwit,
Click to expand...


really? is that what you would tell your children, that its perfectly normal for a strange adult to be following them around? 

that maybe they DID lose their puppy, need directions, 
or that strangers have the best drugs...


----------



## MarcATL

Dante said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or when people start to have a physical confrontation rather than argue.
> 
> either the young man or the Hispanic guy started a fight that got out of hand. Ended up a tragedy. Guns are not the issue.
Click to expand...


Snap out of your stupor.

The guy was told by the 911 attendee not to pursue.

The murderer pursued, stalked and ultimately murdered his prey in cold blood.

He needs to get the death penalty.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who was the prime House sponsor of the deadly force legislation, told CNN Tuesday that "nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not for nothing, an unarmed teenager has more reason to feel threatened than the "grown up" following him around the neighborhood with a gun.
Click to expand...


*First:* what is intended in a law is not always what comes from interpretations. Law makers have often written flawed laws that mean something different than what was intended. So.... silly argument here.

*Second:* Man does not know other is unarmed. Maybe an armed man assumes everyone else might be armed. So? Feeling threatened is so subjective as to make your second argument sillier.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that harassment or stalking from the other persons point of view?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only to a nitwit,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> really? is that what you would tell your children, that its perfectly normal for a strange adult to be following them around?
> 
> that maybe they DID lose their puppy, need directions,
> or that strangers have the best drugs...
Click to expand...


children? a young man? a teenager? grow up. I have been followed by cameras all the time. By security guards in stores, and by neighborhood watches. When the young man stopped and confronted the Hispanic male demanding "Why are you following me?" and the Hispanic male replied "What are you doing around here?" it sounds like the young man started a verbal confrontation.

Obviously the verbal confrontation escalated, but how? You p-r-e-t-e-n-d to know how and stunningly, why.  How creepy is that?


----------



## MarcATL

Zimmerman was looking for trouble.

I have a feeling that no matter what the outcome is...it's curtains for Zimmerman...curtains.


----------



## Dante

MarcATL said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or when people start to have a physical confrontation rather than argue.
> 
> either the young man or the Hispanic guy started a fight that got out of hand. Ended up a tragedy. Guns are not the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Snap out of your stupor.
> 
> The guy was told by the 911 attendee not to pursue.
> 
> The murderer pursued, stalked and ultimately murdered his prey in cold blood.
> 
> He needs to get the death penalty.
Click to expand...


Being told not to purse is a crime?  According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation. A physical spat took place. The young man ended up shot and died. 

What crime was there?

and the death  penalty?   

get a refund on whatever education you may have paid for attending after public school


----------



## The Gadfly

George Costanza said:


> This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.



I was waiting for that to come flying in out of left field; took longer than I expected , really. There might be some basis for it, if this actually turns out to be a bad shooting (even though statistics nationwide indicate that those are pretty rare with CWP holders). The thing is, George, that in spite of a lot of wild accusations and speculations from BOTH sides of this case, we still do not KNOW 9as opposed to conjecturing)exactly WHAT happened, and so we do not know whether this was lawful self-defense under FL law, or an unjustified homicideWe get all kinds of speculation, but when I ask a straight question about which agency investigated what, and what evidence they uncovered, the silence is deafening. I don't know why; police responded to the incident so, there was either no investigation, a botched or incomplete investigation, or an investigation that amounted to a deliberate cover-up. There have been allegations here of all three-well, which was it? Many accusations and innuendoes, but no factsI still cannot determine from the reports I've seen, whether the local police have some evidence, no evidence, or evidence they refuse to release.

What I hope to see whoever is in charge there now do, is an honest review and investigation,  (as opposed to  a politically motivated cover-up, or a media-driven lynching) so that we can have a clear picture of what the real facts in this case actually are. What I mostly see here, is a bunch of people making suppositions based on incomplete information , and aimed at promoting their own point of view of the incident. A few, on both sides, want simply to get at the truth, whatever it is; the rest want to grind a political axe , which strikes me as a piss-poor use of a tragedy; and a tragedy is what this is, whether it was self-defense, or unjustified homicide. The tragedy is that an unarmed kid is dead;now it's up to the investigative and judicial process to administer justice; but doing that, the American way, requires that we know the facts that led to his death. Exchanging accusations, and suggestions of retribution outside of the judicial process, or without due regard for evidence and procedure suggests more desire for retribution, than for justice under the law for BOTH the shooter and the victim. I don't know who is worse here, those who want to blow this off without further ado, or those who seem to want a media lynching, or worse. Looks to me, like most people have already closed their minds on this one,one way or the other. Fine. I think I'm done with this.


----------



## Dante

MarcATL said:


> Zimmerman was looking for trouble.
> 
> I have a feeling that no matter what the outcome is...it's curtains for Zimmerman...curtains.



yeah, yeah, yeah, and when black ministers patrol their neighborhoods trying to take them back from black criminals, they are looking for trouble too. 

your credibility and your value to USMB has been flushed. Do the world a favor and drop dead.


----------



## MarcATL

Dante said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> or when people start to have a physical confrontation rather than argue.
> 
> either the young man or the Hispanic guy started a fight that got out of hand. Ended up a tragedy. Guns are not the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Snap out of your stupor.
> 
> The guy was told by the 911 attendee not to pursue.
> 
> The murderer pursued, stalked and ultimately murdered his prey in cold blood.
> 
> He needs to get the death penalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being told not to purse is a crime?  According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation. A physical spat took place. The young man ended up shot and died.
> 
> What crime was there?
> 
> and the death  penalty?
> 
> get a refund on whatever education you may have paid for attending after public school
Click to expand...


Where are the links you liar?

According to multiple 911 calls...The boy was heard screaming blood curdling screams for help, until Zimmerman let off one blasted shot to his back and ended his young and very promising life.

This was heard on two calls.

Another caller witnessed the murderer hovering  over his victim's lifeless body, told the police to come quick because there's a dead body in her yard with a man hovering over him.

Zimmerman is toast...even if he get's off,  he won't get away with this.

Mark my words.


----------



## Dante

The Gadfly said:


> [ an honest review and investigation,



guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.

motives?  died with kid.

end of tragic story


----------



## Dante

MarcATL said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Snap out of your stupor.
> 
> The guy was told by the 911 attendee not to pursue.
> 
> The murderer pursued, stalked and ultimately murdered his prey in cold blood.
> 
> He needs to get the death penalty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being told not to purse is a crime?  According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation. A physical spat took place. The young man ended up shot and died.
> 
> What crime was there?
> 
> and the death  penalty?
> 
> get a refund on whatever education you may have paid for attending after public school
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where are the links you liar?
> 
> According to multiple 911 calls...The boy was heard screaming blood curdling screams for help, until Zimmerman let off one blasted shot to his back and ended his young and very promising life.
> 
> This was heard on two calls.
> 
> Another caller witnessed the murderer hovering  over his victim's lifeless body, told the police to come quick because there's a dead body in her yard with a man hovering over him.
> 
> Zimmerman is toast...even if he get's off,  he won't get away with this.
> 
> Mark my words.
Click to expand...


your stories are made up. too bad. Zimmerman has become a tragic figure, and you are just a loser making things up.


----------



## MarcATL

Black kid goes to store.
White guy claims kid is suspicious.
Black kid notices white guy staring at him.
Black kid decides to walk away quickly.
White man pursues black kid.
Black kid calls girlfriend describing the scene.
Black kid's gf tells him to run away.
Black kid insists he will continue to simply walk quickly.
White man called 911 saying he sees suspicious kid.
Police tells him to stay put.
White man ignores police's instructions and pursues kid.
White man eventually confronts kid.
Black kid asks white man "Why are you following me?"
White man pumps a fatal shot into back of black kid.
Police finally arrives.
White man gets away free.
Another innocent black kid dead, for walking while black.
End of story.


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, he was just a hater.  I think that is what he will be charged with, hate crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By some reports he called 911 about open windows & garage doors; not playing with a full deck might cross some peoples' minds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> living in a crime filled hood, I'd love the guy for a neighbor. So would most normal people.
Click to expand...


Not me. I've got kids, and black nephews who visit from time to time. I catch some grown assed self appointed deputy dawg following any of them around, I'll be calling the police.


----------



## MikeK

Emma said:


> Your response doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with what I posted.
> 
> His father adamantly states his son wasn't following this kid ... yet this piece of shit tells the operator that he IS ... and continues after being instructed NOT to do so.


I'm not mitigating for Zimmerman because I think he definitely is a loose cannon who precipitated the incident.  But the fact is he was not _instructed_ to stop following Martin.  The police dispatcher told Zimmerman, _"We don't need you to do that!"_ Which is an _informational_ statement, not _instructional._  It is distinctly different from saying, "Do not follow him!"  

If I tell you I'm going to mow your lawn tomorrow and you say, "I don't need you to do that," you are informing me of something, not forbidding me.  I didn't ask you if you needed me to do it.  I told you what I intend to do.   

The reason I'm making an issue of a seemingly minor point is it's become an almost universal error which could be seen as a willful attempt to color the facts.  And if Zimmerman goes to trial, which is very likely after the FBI and Grand Jury are done, you may rest assured his lawyer will lean heavily on media bias and public prejudice against his client.


----------



## MarcATL

That murderer Zimmerman is going down...one way or another.

Mark my words.


----------



## The Gadfly

MarcATL said:


> Zimmerman was looking for trouble.
> 
> I have a feeling that no matter what the outcome is...it's curtains for Zimmerman...curtains.



So you want him thrown to the mob in the street for a lynching, without further proceedings.? You want him assassinated? "A Time To Kill", redux? If that's what' you're wishing for, Marc, just say so. I don't think you'll get that, but at least, you'll be honest......I want a full and fair inquiry to determine what charges, if any, are warranted, and then, I want the accused to have a fair trial on any charges presented. You want something else, you're in the wrong country.


----------



## Dante

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"

*Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

---

According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.* 

so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.  

where is the crime?


----------



## MarcATL

The Gadfly said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was looking for trouble.
> 
> I have a feeling that no matter what the outcome is...it's curtains for Zimmerman...curtains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want him thrown to the mob in the street for a lynching, without further proceedings.? You want him assassinated? "A Time To Kill", redux? If that's what' you're wishing for, Marc, just say so. I don't think you'll get that, but at least, you'll be honest......I want a full and fair inquiry to determine what charges, if any, are warranted, and then, I want the accused to have a fair trial on any charges presented. You want something else, you're in the wrong country.
Click to expand...


I want Zimmerman to get what's coming to him.

And he will...I'm sure of it.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> By some reports he called 911 about open windows & garage doors; not playing with a full deck might cross some peoples' minds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> living in a crime filled hood, I'd love the guy for a neighbor. So would most normal people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not me. I've got kids, and black nephews who visit from time to time. I catch some grown assed self appointed deputy dawg following any of them around, I'll be calling the police.
Click to expand...


but the Hispanic male did NOT follow the young man because he was black. see?

case closed


----------



## Dante

MikeK said:


> I'm not mitigating for Zimmerman because I think he definitely is a loose cannon who precipitated the incident.



the young man confronted Zimmerman first and precipitated a verbal confrontation.


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> only to a nitwit,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> really? is that what you would tell your children, that its perfectly normal for a strange adult to be following them around?
> 
> that maybe they DID lose their puppy, need directions,
> or that strangers have the best drugs...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> children? a young man? a teenager? grow up. I have been followed by cameras all the time. By security guards in stores, and by neighborhood watches. When the young man stopped and confronted the Hispanic male demanding "Why are you following me?" and the Hispanic male replied "What are you doing around here?" it sounds like the young man started a verbal confrontation.
> 
> Obviously the verbal confrontation escalated, but how? You p-r-e-t-e-n-d to know how and stunningly, why.  How creepy is that?
Click to expand...


The "neighborhood watch" was "self appointed." He wasn't a cop, he wasn't acting in ANY official capacity. He WAS told by the cops NOT to follow him. "They always get away," he says. 

He WAS a teenager, and I HEARD his screams on the 911 tape. 
WTF is wrong with you? 

Why George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin&rsquo;s killer, hasn&rsquo;t been prosecuted. - Slate Magazine 


> The story of Trayvon Martin&#8217;s death is heartbreaking. If you have missed the facts: The 17-year-old, who is black, was walking to a friend&#8217;s home in a gated community in Sanford, Fla., when a neighborhood-watch volunteer*, 28-year-old George Zimmerman, spotted him. Zimmerman, whose father says identifies as Hispanic, called the cops to report a suspicious person. They told him not to follow. &#8220;They always get away,&#8221; Zimmerman told dispatch in a 911 call released Friday, and he kept tracking Martin. Zimmerman had a gun. Martin was carrying only an ice tea and the Skittles he&#8217;d just bought at the store. The two had a struggle that no one saw. Hearing shots, neighbors called 911. In one call that&#8217;s hard to listen to, a woman anxiously says she can hear someone calling for help while in the background, a terrified, wailing voice pleads, "No! No!"



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOpGAOXL5Uk]Trayvon Martin 911 Call - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWwQqIRuTWU]Justice For Trayvon? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## The Gadfly

MarcATL said:


> That murderer Zimmerman is going down...one way or another.
> 
> Mark my words.



So , if Zimmerman is duly tried, and is acquitted, you want him murdered? You plan to substitute your personal judgement for the rule of law, or you hope someone else will? I thought you were better than that; I suppose not. But hell, never mind me; you go right ahead. Murder the next guy whose trial verdict you disagree with too. Keep it up, until you bring back lynch law justice. When it turns on you, and eventually it will, don't cry to me.


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got kids, and black nephews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and many many people I know do too. so what? the young man was not followed because he was black and the kid was not related to you. Stop absorbing some other people's tragedy into your own life story.
> 
> sheesh
Click to expand...


WTF is wrong with you? 





> absorbing some other people's tragedy



Any parent of a black child relates to the fear of something terrible happening to them, because we've seen the differences in how the "justice" system views them. 

The kid is DEAD, and instead of an investigation into how something horrible like this happened, HE'S on public trial for asking some creeper WHY he's following him around like a pedo.

This shit is simply priceless.


----------



## MarcATL

The Gadfly said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That murderer Zimmerman is going down...one way or another.
> 
> Mark my words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So , if Zimmerman is duly tried, and is acquitted, you want him murdered? You plan to substitute your personal judgement for the rule of law, or you hope someone else will? I thought you were better than that; I suppose not. But hell, never mind me; you go right ahead. Murder the next guy whose trial verdict you disagree with too. Keep it up, until you bring back lynch law justice. When it turns on you, and eventually it will, don't cry to me.
Click to expand...


Maybe someone might punch him in the face...who knows.
*shrugs*


----------



## MikeK

theHawk said:


> Because I really don't care what the parents of either party has to say, none of them witnessed it.
> 
> I was simply pointed out that an actual eye witness stated that the two men were wrestling with each other.
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.


As of this moment I haven't heard the witness statement you've referred to.  But if it's true then you're quite right.  Police call that _defensive weapon retention_ and it holds up in court.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got kids, and black nephews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and many many people I know do too. so what? the young man was not followed because he was black and the kid was not related to you. Stop absorbing some other people's tragedy into your own life story.
> 
> sheesh
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> absorbing some other people's tragedy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any parent of a black child relates to the fear of something terrible happening to them, because we've seen the differences in how the "justice" system views them.
> 
> The kid is DEAD, and instead of an investigation into how something horrible like this happened, HE'S on public trial for asking some creeper WHY he's following him around like a pedo.
> 
> This shit is simply priceless.
Click to expand...


there you go parroting Al Sharpton and Company.

This isn't about the police or the justice system treating the young man one way or another. The young man confronted a civilian and started a verbal confrontation. he didn't get shot because of that as afar as we know. somehow a fight broke out and then the young man got shot - by a civilian.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> ...



hysterical rantings deleted. children may be watching.

now, if a crime has been committed it will all come out in the wash. this isn't about black kids everywhere, 

this happened in a  racially mixed gated community and the police were not involved in a shooting.


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hysterical rantings deleted. children may be watching.
> 
> now, if a crime has been committed it will all come out in the wash. this isn't about black kids everywhere,
> 
> this happened in a  racially mixed gated community and the police were not involved in a shooting.
Click to expand...


The police were not involved in an investigation INTO the shooting, either. 

THAT's the point.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hysterical rantings deleted. children may be watching.
> 
> now, if a crime has been committed it will all come out in the wash. this isn't about black kids everywhere,
> 
> this happened in a  racially mixed gated community and the police were not involved in a shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The police were not involved in an investigation INTO the shooting, either.
> 
> THAT's the point.
Click to expand...


see? more bullshit. The investigation on scene said, no crime. You are lying. You just don't like the outcome. You hate Justice.

The police decided not to arrest. They could find no evidence a crime had been committed.


----------



## Barb

MikeK said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because I really don't care what the parents of either party has to say, none of them witnessed it.
> 
> I was simply pointed out that an actual eye witness stated that the two men were wrestling with each other.
> 
> If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> As of this moment I haven't heard the witness statement you've referred to.  But if it's true then you're quite right.  Police call that _defensive weapon retention_ and it holds up in court.
Click to expand...



Why George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin&rsquo;s killer, hasn&rsquo;t been prosecuted. - Slate Magazine



> *[...]How did we get to a place where Zimmermans claim of self-defense, which seems barely plausible, could prevent his arrest? The answer starts with the Stand Your Ground law that Florida passed in 2005. *The idea was to give people who... think they are being threatened the right to use force: They can protect themselves without first trying to retreat.* The history behind that controversial idea is actually about gender, not race. It involves the intersection between the fight against domestic violence and the agenda of the National Rifle Association.
> [...]



Who was being followed? The teenager. Who had a reason to feel threatened? The teenager. 

Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN.com 



> Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who was the prime House sponsor of the deadly force legislation, told CNN Tuesday that *"nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront."*



What would have happened if the teenager managed to defend himself and tried to use that law? HE would have been in the right according TO that law, NOT Zimmerman, but HE would have been hauled off to jail to await the court appointed attorney's advice to cop a plea.


----------



## The Gadfly

MarcATL said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That murderer Zimmerman is going down...one way or another.
> 
> Mark my words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So , if Zimmerman is duly tried, and is acquitted, you want him murdered? You plan to substitute your personal judgement for the rule of law, or you hope someone else will? I thought you were better than that; I suppose not. But hell, never mind me; you go right ahead. Murder the next guy whose trial verdict you disagree with too. Keep it up, until you bring back lynch law justice. When it turns on you, and eventually it will, don't cry to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe someone might punch him in the face...who knows.
> *shrugs*
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm sure that's what you meant.


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> hysterical rantings deleted. children may be watching.
> 
> now, if a crime has been committed it will all come out in the wash. this isn't about black kids everywhere,
> 
> this happened in a  racially mixed gated community and the police were not involved in a shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police were not involved in an investigation INTO the shooting, either.
> 
> THAT's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> see? more bullshit. The investigation on scene said, no crime. You are lying. You just don't like the outcome. You hate Justice.
> 
> The police decided not to arrest. They could find no evidence a crime had been committed.
Click to expand...


The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.



In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.

If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.

and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime


----------



## Dante

"Critics say Trayvon, who was visiting family from his home in Miami, was a victim of racial profiling." - George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

but the man is not reported to have been a racist -- before Al Sharpton and the Lynch Mob showed up


----------



## MikeK

theHawk said:


> According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening.*  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.


You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined).  What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause.  My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.  

I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?


----------



## Dante

MikeK said:


> What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause.  My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.
> 
> I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?



Who said there was evidence of an aggressive confrontation on the part of Zimmerman? When the police arrived there was no evidence to support this theory. Who saw Zimmerman confront the young man?

We do know the young man confronted Zimmerman and initiated a verbal confrontation According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a 
struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.*


----------



## Barb

Dante said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.
> 
> If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.
> 
> and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime
Click to expand...


murder. 
the 911 calls with the kids voice screaming for help. The 911 call with the man telling the police he was following him. The kid is un armed, the man is not. You really think that whack job shouldn't have been brought in while an investigation was conducted? really? 

And not probable? A gated community in Florida and a black teenager dead. 
Again, really?


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.
> 
> If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.
> 
> and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> murder.
> the 911 calls with the kids voice screaming for help. The 911 call with the man telling the police he was following him. The kid is un armed, the man is not. You really think that whack job shouldn't have been brought in while an investigation was conducted? really?
> 
> And not probable? A gated community in Florida and a black teenager dead.
> Again, really?
Click to expand...


A racially mixed gated community. Why do you like Ravi - keep implying gated communities are white havens only?

and murder? The man was not hiding the fact he followed what he considered suspicious activity. no crime. the man was on the phone with police and said he would follow. police said please don't. he did anyway. no crime. 

later from girlfriend we find out after man follows, young man initiates a verbal confrontation. no crime

police get there after shooting and man with legal permit/license who has followed people numerous times and never shot anybody, says he fought for his life and shot suspicious young man. what crime?

where is even the suspicion of a crime in that story that would warrant an arrest?  I would not want to be arrested on such flimsy information


----------



## Barb

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html 



> These a--holes always get away, Zimmerman complained.
> What happened next is unclear, and has already reverberated nationwide. Calls to 911 alerted police to a scuffle and someone crying for help. In one, the chilling howl stopped after the clear, crisp blast of a bullet. Trayvon was lying face down on the ground near a pathway that runs through the townhouse community.
> One 911 caller sobbed to the dispatcher over not having helped the young man who wailed.
> Zimmerman told police that was him crying for help and that Trayvon started the fight. He claimed self-defense and was not charged, flaring deep-seated racial tensions between blacks and police, who have a long history of distrust. On at least two prior occasions, the Sanford Police Department was accused of giving favorable treatment to relatives of officers involved in violent encounters with blacks.
> In 2010, police waited seven weeks to arrest a lieutenants son who was caught on video sucker-punching a homeless black man.
> In 2005, two security guards  one the son of a longtime Sanford police officer and the other a department volunteer  killed a black man they said was trying to run them over. Black leaders complained of a lackluster investigation. The guards ultimately were acquitted.
> 
> Read more here: Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com





> This was not self-defense, Cutcher said. We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldnt have stopped. If youre hurting, youre hurting.
> She and her friend say they heard the sounds from a few steps away, where they were inside beside an open window. Seconds later, they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.
> 
> Read more here: Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com





> I know what I heard. I heard a cry and a shot, Mora said. If there was a fight, it did not happen here where the boy was shot. I would have heard it, as this all happened right outside my open window.
> 
> Read more here: Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com





> Cutcher was one of eight or nine 911 callers that night but she said investigators dismissed her, and a detective failed to follow up with her. Both women said police seemed very blasé.
> 
> Read more here: Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## Barb

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1 



> As the father of two black teenage boys, this case hits close to home. This is the fear that seizes me whenever my boys are out in the world: that a man with a gun and an itchy finger will find them suspicious. That passions may run hot and blood run cold. That it might all end with a hole in their chest and hole in my heart. That the law might prove insufficient to salve my loss.
> 
> *That is the burden of black boys in America and the people that love them: running the risk of being descended upon in the dark and caught in the cross-hairs of someone who crosses the line. *





> According to Crump, the father was told that one of the reasons Zimmerman wasnt arrested was because he had a squeaky clean record. It wasnt. According to the local news station WFTV, Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for battery on a law enforcement officer.
> 
> Furthermore, ABC News reported on Tuesday that one of the responding officers corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help. And The Miami Herald published an article on Thursday that said three witnesses had heard the desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.
> 
> WFTV also reported this week that the officer in charge of the scene when Trayvon was shot was also in charge of another controversial case. In 2010, a lieutenants son was videotaped attacking a black homeless man. The officers son also was not initially arrested in that case. He was later arrested when the television station broke the news.


----------



## Barb

Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News 



> But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.
> 
> "When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.
> 
> But Zimmerman was not tested.


----------



## Ravi

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no.  One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force.  Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who was the prime House sponsor of the deadly force legislation, told CNN Tuesday that "nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not for nothing, an unarmed teenager has more reason to feel threatened than the "grown up" following him around the neighborhood with a gun.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to read that. Maybe there is hope for Florida after all.


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ an honest review and investigation,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.
> 
> motives?  died with kid.
> 
> end of tragic story
Click to expand...


How droll that you've put all the blame on the kid for "confronting" his stalker by asking _why are you following me._

Do you troll your neighborhood with candy?


----------



## Ravi

Dante said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.
> 
> If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.
> 
> and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> murder.
> the 911 calls with the kids voice screaming for help. The 911 call with the man telling the police he was following him. The kid is un armed, the man is not. You really think that whack job shouldn't have been brought in while an investigation was conducted? really?
> 
> And not probable? A gated community in Florida and a black teenager dead.
> Again, really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A racially mixed gated community. Why do you like Ravi - keep implying gated communities are white havens only?
> 
> and murder? The man was not hiding the fact he followed what he considered suspicious activity. no crime. the man was on the phone with police and said he would follow. police said please don't. he did anyway. no crime.
> 
> later from girlfriend we find out after man follows, young man initiates a verbal confrontation. no crime
> 
> police get there after shooting and man with legal permit/license who has followed people numerous times and never shot anybody, says he fought for his life and shot suspicious young man. what crime?
> 
> where is even the suspicion of a crime in that story that would warrant an arrest?  I would not want to be arrested on such flimsy information
Click to expand...


I've never implied that gated communities are white havens.

The fact that this one is racially diverse makes the entire situation even worse....this man thought the kid was up to no good based on his skin color when it is perfectly normal for young blacks to be walking around the community.


----------



## Sarah G

MarcATL said:


> Black kid goes to store.
> White guy claims kid is suspicious.
> Black kid notices white guy staring at him.
> Black kid decides to walk away quickly.
> White man pursues black kid.
> Black kid calls girlfriend describing the scene.
> Black kid's gf tells him to run away.
> Black kid insists he will continue to simply walk quickly.
> White man called 911 saying he sees suspicious kid.
> Police tells him to stay put.
> White man ignores police's instructions and pursues kid.
> White man eventually confronts kid.
> Black kid asks white man "Why are you following me?"
> White man pumps a fatal shot into back of black kid.
> Police finally arrives.
> White man gets away free.
> Another innocent black kid dead, for walking while black.
> End of story.



Sad story.  Don't forget the idiots standing up for the guy with the gun and in the end guy with gun will walk away scott free.  Just like a murdering mother did just a few months ago in Florida.


----------



## PredFan

Barb said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police were not involved in an investigation INTO the shooting, either.
> 
> THAT's the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see? more bullshit. The investigation on scene said, no crime. You are lying. You just don't like the outcome. You hate Justice.
> 
> The police decided not to arrest. They could find no evidence a crime had been committed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.
Click to expand...


Attacks don't only happen in your home or on your property, they happen anywhere. You can shoot someone in self-defense.


----------



## PredFan

MikeK said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening.*  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> 
> 
> You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined).  What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause. * My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.  *
> 
> I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?
Click to expand...


Bold and underlined, it is your opinion, the legality of an act isn't based on opinion.


----------



## Ravi

I wonder if Zimmerman is still patrolling the neighborhood. If so, I wonder if anyone that lives there feels safe with him doing that.


----------



## Ravi

MikeK said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening.*  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> 
> 
> You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined).  What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause.  My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.
> 
> I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?
Click to expand...


Here's the text of the law:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.

And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.

If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.


----------



## PredFan

> These a--holes always get away, Zimmerman complained.
> What happened next is unclear, and has already reverberated nationwide. Calls to 911 alerted police to a scuffle and someone crying for help. In one, the chilling howl stopped after the clear, crisp blast of a bullet. Trayvon was lying face down on the ground near a pathway that runs through the townhouse community.
> One 911 caller sobbed to the dispatcher over not having helped the young man who wailed.
> Zimmerman told police that was him crying for help and that Trayvon started the fight. He claimed self-defense and was not charged, flaring deep-seated racial tensions between blacks and police, who have a long history of distrust. On at least two prior occasions, the Sanford Police Department was accused of giving favorable treatment to relatives of officers involved in violent encounters with blacks.
> In 2010, police waited seven weeks to arrest a lieutenants son who was caught on video sucker-punching a homeless black man.
> In 2005, two security guards  one the son of a longtime Sanford police officer and the other a department volunteer  killed a black man they said was trying to run them over. Black leaders complained of a lackluster investigation. The guards ultimately were acquitted.



Zimmerman claims it was him screaming. The rest is irrelevant.



> This was not self-defense, Cutcher said. We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldnt have stopped. If youre hurting, youre hurting.
> She and her friend say they heard the sounds from a few steps away, where they were inside beside an open window. Seconds later, they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.



People cry when they are frightened, when your assailant is shot and down, you stop crying. What those two saw is not evidence of anything.



> I know what I heard. I heard a cry and a shot, Mora said. If there was a fight, it did not happen here where the boy was shot. I would have heard it, as this all happened right outside my open window.



Irrelevant. Proof of nothing.



> Cutcher was one of eight or nine 911 callers that night but she said investigators dismissed her, and a detective failed to follow up with her. Both women said police seemed very blasé.



they dismissed her because it was irrelevant.


----------



## PredFan

Barb said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the father of two black teenage boys, this case hits close to home. This is the fear that seizes me whenever my boys are out in the world: that a man with a gun and an itchy finger will find them suspicious. That passions may run hot and blood run cold. That it might all end with a hole in their chest and hole in my heart. That the law might prove insufficient to salve my loss.
> 
> *That is the burden of black boys in America and the people that love them: running the risk of being descended upon in the dark and caught in the cross-hairs of someone who crosses the line. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Crump, the father was told that one of the reasons Zimmerman wasnt arrested was because he had a squeaky clean record. It wasnt. According to the local news station WFTV, Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for battery on a law enforcement officer.
> 
> Furthermore, ABC News reported on Tuesday that one of the responding officers corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help. And The Miami Herald published an article on Thursday that said three witnesses had heard the desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.
> 
> WFTV also reported this week that the officer in charge of the scene when Trayvon was shot was also in charge of another controversial case. In 2010, a lieutenants son was videotaped attacking a black homeless man. The officers son also was not initially arrested in that case. He was later arrested when the television station broke the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


More emotional hyperbole. Irrelevant to the case.


----------



## mudwhistle

Ravi said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.
> 
> Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher.  *Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening.*  Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened.  There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense.  It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.
> 
> 
> 
> You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined).  What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause.  My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.
> 
> I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's the text of the law:
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.
> 
> And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.
> 
> If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.
Click to expand...


It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.

I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.


----------



## Ravi

mudwhistle said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined).  What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause.  My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.
> 
> I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the text of the law:
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.
> 
> And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.
> 
> If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.
> 
> I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.
Click to expand...

If he was in fear of his life, he wouldn't have left his vehicle and pursued the kid.


----------



## PredFan

And....Zimmerman is Hispanic.


----------



## PredFan

mudwhistle said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined).  What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause.  My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.
> 
> I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the text of the law:
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.
> 
> And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.
> 
> If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.
> 
> I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.
Click to expand...


Exactly. The media hype, the intentional attempt to inflame racial tension, and the way the shooter has already been found guilty in the court of public opinion, I don't know which is more rediculous


----------



## Emma

The Gadfly said:


> Look, people, instead of screaming charges and counter charges, and making wild and mostly unsubstantiated allegations, let's ask some questions that have not been answered,or on which there are contradictory accounts. Then let's see what if any , factual answers exist to any of these.
> 
> (1) At the beginning of the initial 911 call, Zimmerman is apparently in his vehicle. At precisely what point did Zimmerman exit the vehicle, and why?
> 
> (2) Did Martin confront Zimmerman, or did Zimmerman confront Martin ?


 What is reported that zimmerman told police doesn't make sense, because of his call to police and the area where this occurred. If the girlfriend's statement is to be believed (and if she was on the call from the start), then Martin confronted zimmerman first by asking why he was following him. 



> (3) Witness testimony indicates there was a physical altercation between Martin and Zimmerman. Which one initiated use of physical force, and why?
> 
> (4) Whose voice is heard screaming for help on the 911 tape?


 It was reported that police let the parents listen to the tape prior to its release, and that the mother became hysterical when she heard those cries for help. Both parents have said that was their son's voice. I believe them. A parent would certainly recognize their child's scream. Which leaves me with a very unsettling conclusion ... zimmerman knew that people must have heard the kid yelling for help, he had a dead kid lying at his feet, and knowing the law, decided to tell police _he_ was the one yelling for help. I'd like to know if there is any way LE can determine who it was screaming on the tape. 



> (5) Zimmerman was carrying a handgun. Was it concealed?
> 
> (6)If the gun was carried concealed, at what point did Zimmerman either inform Martin that he was armed, or first draw the gun?
> 
> (7) Martin fell face down after he was shot. Was he shot from the front, or the back?
> 
> (8) Two witnesses state they saw Zimmerman on the ground before the shot was fired. There are three ways he could have reasonably got there (a) he tripped and fell (b) Martin knocked or wrestled him to the ground, or (c) Zimmerman tackled or tried to tackle Martin. Which is most consistent with the witness accounts and the physical evidence?


Some here have claimed that Martin was on top with zimmerman on his back. How did Martin end up face down if this is when zimmerman shot him? Seems to me he'd fall backward or to the side. How he ended up face down is a concern. 



> (9) What were/are the actual height and weight of each of the two subjects?


 It's reported that Martin weighed 140 pounds; not sure of the height. One of his photos show him in a football uniform, maybe that's where the press found that information. Zimmerman was reported as 250 pounds. Not sure where that came from, maybe police report? 



> (10) Zimmerman is described by a witness as having blood on his face and the back of his head. What were Zimmerman's actual apparent injuries?


 It's possible that Martin fought back and got in a hit to the lip or nose. Did Martin cause the injury to his head or did he strike his head on the sidewalk as they wrestled about?  Was he tested to determine if the blood was actually his and not Martin's? 



> (11) Presumably, an autopsy was performed on Martin. Did Martin have any other injuries besides a gunshot wound (such as bruises and/or abrasions on his knuckles or elsewhere)? Were there any other relevant autopsy findings?


 And did they determine where the shot entered his body (front or back) and from what angle, and is it consistent with what zimmerman told the police. 



> (12) What physical evidence, if any, was collected at the scene? If none, why not?
> 
> (13) Did Zimmerman have alcohol on his breath, or appear impaired in any way? If so, was a field sobriety test and or a breath test administered? If not, why?


It's been widely reported that zimmerman was not tested for drugs or alcohol. 



> (14) Is Zimmerman's account of the events as given to officers consistent with the 911 tapes (in their entirety), the statements of  the witnesses, and the physical evidence at the scene? In what respects , if any is it inconsistent with any of these?
> 
> Note that all these questions should be answered by even a basic on-scene police investigation, interviews with witnesses, basic forensics, and autopsy findings on the victim. They are basic to determining the veracity (or lack thereof), of Zimmerman's account of the incident, and to a preliminary determination as to whether Martin's death was most likely a case of self-defense, or a wrongful homicide. Yet virtually none of these answers, required in even a basic death investigation, have been disclosed by either the Seminole County Sheriff, or the Sanford Police Department. Why not?
> 
> As I see it, those are the most basic and impartial questions. Many of the answers should be contained in the initial incident report(s) of the responding officer(s). Are they? If not, why not?


Good questions. I hope the grand jury is able to get to the bottom of this ... although 2 months after the fact, some will obviously be left unanswered.


----------



## mudwhistle

Ravi said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the text of the law:
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.
> 
> And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.
> 
> If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.
> 
> I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If he was in fear of his life, he wouldn't have left his vehicle and pursued the kid.
Click to expand...


Ravi....you really don't know anything, do you?

Seems the only violence you've witnessed is on the TV.

You've never been in a life-or-death situation.

Shit doesn't always go like it does in movies. Fights are not choreographed. 

What it looks like is the hispanic neighborhood watch guy asked the guy who he was and what he was doing, the black kid got an attitude and it turned into a fight. They say the hispanic guy got a gash on his head from a can the black kid hit him with. He shouldn't have had a gun with him. He shot the kid and he's dead. 

Now what does this all prove to you???? 

Does it prove that the GOP hates blacks?????

My guess is it does, in your mind at least. But what I'm seeing is two of the Democrat's special-interest groups fighting it out and racist opportunists trying to capitalize off of the situation because the shooter has what appears to be a white name.

As it is I have better things to do than deal with his media generated controversy.


----------



## Sallow

Ravi said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the text of the law:
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.
> 
> And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.
> 
> If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.
> 
> I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If he was in fear of his life, he wouldn't have left his vehicle and pursued the kid.
Click to expand...


This is the most crucial part of the exchange. Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, like a hunter stalking prey. This, despite the fact that the dispatcher told him not to do so. Martin was not engaged in any obvious criminal activity. Zimmerman also used a racial epithet on the tape.

The cops completely bungled this as well. They did a background check on Martin and checked the body for drugs and alcohol. They also held the body for three days without informing the family. Zimmerman was shortly questioned and released. At the very least this stinks of bias.


----------



## mudwhistle

Sallow said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.
> 
> I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.
> 
> 
> 
> If he was in fear of his life, he wouldn't have left his vehicle and pursued the kid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the most crucial part of the exchange.* Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, like a hunter stalking prey. *This, despite the fact that the dispatcher told him not to do so. Martin was not engaged in any obvious criminal activity. Zimmerman also used a racial epithet on the tape.
> 
> The cops completely bungled this as well. They did a background check on Martin and checked the body for drugs and alcohol. They also held the body for three days without informing the family. Zimmerman was shortly questioned and released. At the very least this stinks of bias.
Click to expand...


I don't remember yelling at deer in the woods;* "HEY.....WHERE ARE YOU GOING....DO YOU BELONG HERE???"*


----------



## Sallow

mudwhistle said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he was in fear of his life, he wouldn't have left his vehicle and pursued the kid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most crucial part of the exchange.* Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, like a hunter stalking prey. *This, despite the fact that the dispatcher told him not to do so. Martin was not engaged in any obvious criminal activity. Zimmerman also used a racial epithet on the tape.
> 
> The cops completely bungled this as well. They did a background check on Martin and checked the body for drugs and alcohol. They also held the body for three days without informing the family. Zimmerman was shortly questioned and released. At the very least this stinks of bias.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't remember yelling at deer in the woods;* "HEY.....WHERE ARE YOU GOING....DO YOU BELONG HERE???"*
Click to expand...


A long time ago..a couple of muggers said the very same thing to me.


----------



## mudwhistle

Sallow said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most crucial part of the exchange.* Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, like a hunter stalking prey. *This, despite the fact that the dispatcher told him not to do so. Martin was not engaged in any obvious criminal activity. Zimmerman also used a racial epithet on the tape.
> 
> The cops completely bungled this as well. They did a background check on Martin and checked the body for drugs and alcohol. They also held the body for three days without informing the family. Zimmerman was shortly questioned and released. At the very least this stinks of bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember yelling at deer in the woods;* "HEY.....WHERE ARE YOU GOING....DO YOU BELONG HERE???"*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A long time ago..a couple of muggers said the very same thing to me.
Click to expand...


Whatever.

Usually one doesn't hunt prey by loudly identifying themselves.


----------



## manifold

Dante said:


> I always watch out for the area around where I live. Always.



If you don't, who else will.


----------



## Sallow

mudwhistle said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember yelling at deer in the woods;* "HEY.....WHERE ARE YOU GOING....DO YOU BELONG HERE???"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A long time ago..a couple of muggers said the very same thing to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Usually one doesn't hunt prey by loudly identifying themselves.
Click to expand...


Depends on the prey. Martin was running away..and Zimmerman wanted him to stop. Well he stopped.


----------



## manifold

Ravi said:


> ...this man thought the kid was up to no good based on his skin color when it is perfectly normal for young blacks to be walking around the community.



Do you even realize how retardedly contradictory ^this statement is?


----------



## mudwhistle

Sallow said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> A long time ago..a couple of muggers said the very same thing to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Usually one doesn't hunt prey by loudly identifying themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depends on the prey. Martin was running away..and Zimmerman wanted him to stop. Well he stopped.
Click to expand...


I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.

You're making this shit up.


----------



## Emma

Sallow said:


> This is the most crucial part of the exchange. Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, like a hunter stalking prey. This, despite the fact that the dispatcher told him not to do so. Martin was not engaged in any obvious criminal activity. Zimmerman also used a racial epithet on the tape.
> 
> The cops completely bungled this as well. They did a background check on Martin and checked the body for drugs and alcohol. They also held the body for three days without informing the family. Zimmerman was shortly questioned and released. At the very least this stinks of bias.



Some have claimed that Zimmerman did not follow Martin, that he simply got out of his car to check the street sign to see where he was, and that as he was returning to his car, Martin hit him from behind. 

That's a lie. 

First of all, Zimmerman lived in the complex. He'd been a (self-appointed) neighborhood watch, calling police over 40 times in the year prior to this event. He knew his neighborhood and knew it well.  In his call to police about Martin, he was giving pretty detailed information on his location and instructions to the police on how to get to where he was and at no point after exiting his vehicle did he tell the dispatcher he was checking to see what street he was on --- that is where he admits he's _following_ Martin, and then shortly after says Martin is running away. And no further calls to police that he'd been attacked by Martin. 

Now take a look at the photos where the confrontation/shooting took place. Between two long rows of apartments/townhomes (the back of the buildings facing each other) in a grassy courtyard with a sidewalk running down the middle. No road. No street signs. Photos of several chunks of turf disturbed where the fight occurred, but no evidence of tire tracks (it had been raining hard that evening, from reports). In calls from residents of the complex who were reporting the incident, when asked to describe what they saw and heard, at no point does anyone mention a vehicle in the courtyard. 

So his report to police that this started when Martin attacked him as he was re-entering his vehicle is a lie.


----------



## PredFan

This is a difficult case. I have been hearing about it for weeks (I live in Orlando, about 5 miles south of Sanford). Zimmerman pursued the kid, which he should not have done, but that doesn't mean the kid didn't attack him as he said he did. I wasn't there, I will wait until the investigation is completed and any trial has reached a verdict.

It's funny that the lynch mob is calling for his arrest as if we live in a country that arrests first and then determines if a crime has been committed later.

If they find him guilty of murder, put him in the chair.


----------



## PredFan

Emma said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most crucial part of the exchange. Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, like a hunter stalking prey. This, despite the fact that the dispatcher told him not to do so. Martin was not engaged in any obvious criminal activity. Zimmerman also used a racial epithet on the tape.
> 
> The cops completely bungled this as well. They did a background check on Martin and checked the body for drugs and alcohol. They also held the body for three days without informing the family. Zimmerman was shortly questioned and released. At the very least this stinks of bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some have claimed that Zimmerman did not follow Martin, that he simply got out of his car to check the street sign to see where he was, and that as he was returning to his car, Martin hit him from behind.
> 
> That's a lie.
> 
> First of all, Zimmerman lived in the complex. He'd been a (self-appointed) neighborhood watch, calling police over 40 times in the year prior to this event. He knew his neighborhood and knew it well.  In his call to police about Martin, he was giving pretty detailed information on his location and instructions to the police on how to get to where he was and at no point after exiting his vehicle did he tell the dispatcher he was checking to see what street he was on --- that is where he admits he's _following_ Martin, and then shortly after says Martin is running away. And no further calls to police that he'd been attacked by Martin.
> 
> Now take a look at the photos where the confrontation/shooting took place. Between two long rows of apartments/townhomes (the back of the buildings facing each other) in a grassy courtyard with a sidewalk running down the middle. No road. No street signs. Photos of several chunks of turf disturbed where the fight occurred, but no evidence of tire tracks (it had been raining hard that evening, from reports). In calls from residents of the complex who were reporting the incident, when asked to describe what they saw and heard, at no point does anyone mention a vehicle in the courtyard.
> 
> So his report to police that this started when Martin attacked him as he was re-entering his vehicle is a lie.
Click to expand...


This is hilarious. Got the lotto numbers oh omniscient one? You who knows all and sees all?


----------



## Emma

mudwhistle said:


> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.



Zimmerman: "Shit, he's running."

Dispatcher: "He's running? Which way is he running?"

Zimmerman: "Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood."

Dispatcher: "Which entrance is it that he's heading towards?"

Zimmerman: "The back entrance ... fucking .... "

Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"

Zimmerman: "Yeah."


----------



## Emma

PredFan said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most crucial part of the exchange. Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, like a hunter stalking prey. This, despite the fact that the dispatcher told him not to do so. Martin was not engaged in any obvious criminal activity. Zimmerman also used a racial epithet on the tape.
> 
> The cops completely bungled this as well. They did a background check on Martin and checked the body for drugs and alcohol. They also held the body for three days without informing the family. Zimmerman was shortly questioned and released. At the very least this stinks of bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some have claimed that Zimmerman did not follow Martin, that he simply got out of his car to check the street sign to see where he was, and that as he was returning to his car, Martin hit him from behind.
> 
> That's a lie.
> 
> First of all, Zimmerman lived in the complex. He'd been a (self-appointed) neighborhood watch, calling police over 40 times in the year prior to this event. He knew his neighborhood and knew it well.  In his call to police about Martin, he was giving pretty detailed information on his location and instructions to the police on how to get to where he was and at no point after exiting his vehicle did he tell the dispatcher he was checking to see what street he was on --- that is where he admits he's _following_ Martin, and then shortly after says Martin is running away. And no further calls to police that he'd been attacked by Martin.
> 
> Now take a look at the photos where the confrontation/shooting took place. Between two long rows of apartments/townhomes (the back of the buildings facing each other) in a grassy courtyard with a sidewalk running down the middle. No road. No street signs. Photos of several chunks of turf disturbed where the fight occurred, but no evidence of tire tracks (it had been raining hard that evening, from reports). In calls from residents of the complex who were reporting the incident, when asked to describe what they saw and heard, at no point does anyone mention a vehicle in the courtyard.
> 
> So his report to police that this started when Martin attacked him as he was re-entering his vehicle is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is hilarious. Got the lotto numbers oh omniscient one? You who knows all and sees all?
Click to expand...


Nah. Just proof that Zimmerman's statement is a lie that this occurred when he was attacked from behind as he entered his vehicle.


----------



## Emma

Has anyone seen a map of this complex?


----------



## uptownlivin90

mudwhistle said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Usually one doesn't hunt prey by loudly identifying themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the prey. Martin was running away..and Zimmerman wanted him to stop. Well he stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.
Click to expand...


In the Audio I heard you can CLEARLY hear Zimmerman say that Trayvon Martin was running away. He even said "these guys always get away"... why on Earth would he say that if the kid was coming toward him at the time? Then he tells the dispatcher where the kid is going and gets out of the car. The dispatcher asks "are you following him?" then Zimmerman tells him yes and the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that."

From what I've heard on the 9/11 tapes, I don't see where Trayvon committed a crime AT ALL. 

He was a young African American male walking in the rain in a suburban neighborhood. This might be news to some of you, but... that's not a crime.

EVEN IF he first confronted Zimmerman, this was long after Zimmerman began unnecessarily stalking him while he was ON HIS CELL PHONE calling the police.

Let me inform some of you of the simple fact that Latinos and African Americans don't always get along in Florida... or pretty much anywhere in the US. If you're an African American teenager walking by yourself in a Florida neighborhood, with a grown Hispanic male following you in a car with a phone in his hand watching your every move...

... do you assume he's just a concerned citizen that thinks you're suspicious? Or do you possibly... maybe... assume that THIS guy might be up to no good?

Does anybody see how stalking somebody because they look suspicious might not be wise? If you don't... well I don't know what to tell you. Even IF and that's a big IF Trayvon Martin initiated the conflict or confronted Zimmerman, the confrontation was reasonable and HE was acting out of self-defense if anybody was.

We have people on this thread calling him a criminal. They have no evidence that he ever committed a crime in his life. The fact is though this kid could have been a choir boy who gave his lunch money to poor kids at school everyday... he'd still be just another minority criminal. Again, God will have the final say...


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the prey. Martin was running away..and Zimmerman wanted him to stop. Well he stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the Audio I heard you can CLEARLY hear Zimmerman say that Trayvon Martin was running away. He even said "these guys always get away"... why on Earth would he say that if the kid was coming toward him at the time? Then he tells the dispatcher where the kid is going and gets out of the car. The dispatcher asks "are you following him?" then Zimmerman tells him yes and the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that."
> 
> From what I've heard on the 9/11 tapes, I don't see where Trayvon committed a crime AT ALL.
> 
> He was a young African American male walking in the rain in a suburban neighborhood. This might be news to some of you, but... that's not a crime.
> 
> EVEN IF he first confronted Zimmerman, this was long after Zimmerman began unnecessarily stalking him while he was ON HIS CELL PHONE calling the police.
> 
> Let me inform some of you of the simple fact that Latinos and African Americans don't always get along in Florida... or pretty much anywhere in the US. If you're an African American teenager walking by yourself in a Florida neighborhood, with a grown Hispanic male following you in a car with a phone in his hand watching your every move...
> 
> ... do you assume he's just a concerned citizen that thinks you're suspicious? Or do you possibly... maybe... assume that THIS guy might be up to no good?
> 
> Does anybody see how stalking somebody because they look suspicious might not be wise? If you don't... well I don't know what to tell you. Even IF and that's a big IF Trayvon Martin initiated the conflict or confronted Zimmerman, the confrontation was reasonable and HE was acting out of self-defense if anybody was.
> 
> We have people on this thread calling him a criminal. They have no evidence that he ever committed a crime in his life. The fact is though this kid could have been a choir boy who gave his lunch money to poor kids at school everyday... he'd still be just another minority criminal. Again, God will have the final say...
Click to expand...


I agree with what you are saying but it seems like most people already have their minds made up that Trayvon was a criminal and Zimmerman was a diligent citizen exercising his civic duty in subduing an out of control black criminal threat, just the way it is.


----------



## MarcATL

High_Gravity said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Audio I heard you can CLEARLY hear Zimmerman say that Trayvon Martin was running away. He even said "these guys always get away"... why on Earth would he say that if the kid was coming toward him at the time? Then he tells the dispatcher where the kid is going and gets out of the car. The dispatcher asks "are you following him?" then Zimmerman tells him yes and the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that."
> 
> From what I've heard on the 9/11 tapes, I don't see where Trayvon committed a crime AT ALL.
> 
> He was a young African American male walking in the rain in a suburban neighborhood. This might be news to some of you, but... that's not a crime.
> 
> EVEN IF he first confronted Zimmerman, this was long after Zimmerman began unnecessarily stalking him while he was ON HIS CELL PHONE calling the police.
> 
> Let me inform some of you of the simple fact that Latinos and African Americans don't always get along in Florida... or pretty much anywhere in the US. If you're an African American teenager walking by yourself in a Florida neighborhood, with a grown Hispanic male following you in a car with a phone in his hand watching your every move...
> 
> ... do you assume he's just a concerned citizen that thinks you're suspicious? Or do you possibly... maybe... assume that THIS guy might be up to no good?
> 
> Does anybody see how stalking somebody because they look suspicious might not be wise? If you don't... well I don't know what to tell you. Even IF and that's a big IF Trayvon Martin initiated the conflict or confronted Zimmerman, the confrontation was reasonable and HE was acting out of self-defense if anybody was.
> 
> We have people on this thread calling him a criminal. They have no evidence that he ever committed a crime in his life. The fact is though this kid could have been a choir boy who gave his lunch money to poor kids at school everyday... he'd still be just another minority criminal. Again, God will have the final say...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with what you are saying but it seems like most people already have their minds made up that Trayvon was a criminal and Zimmerman was a diligent citizen exercising his civic duty in subduing an out of control black criminal threat, just the way it is.
Click to expand...

Only the rabid racists do.

Mark my words...heads will roll for this.

...watch.


----------



## High_Gravity

MarcATL said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the Audio I heard you can CLEARLY hear Zimmerman say that Trayvon Martin was running away. He even said "these guys always get away"... why on Earth would he say that if the kid was coming toward him at the time? Then he tells the dispatcher where the kid is going and gets out of the car. The dispatcher asks "are you following him?" then Zimmerman tells him yes and the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that."
> 
> From what I've heard on the 9/11 tapes, I don't see where Trayvon committed a crime AT ALL.
> 
> He was a young African American male walking in the rain in a suburban neighborhood. This might be news to some of you, but... that's not a crime.
> 
> EVEN IF he first confronted Zimmerman, this was long after Zimmerman began unnecessarily stalking him while he was ON HIS CELL PHONE calling the police.
> 
> Let me inform some of you of the simple fact that Latinos and African Americans don't always get along in Florida... or pretty much anywhere in the US. If you're an African American teenager walking by yourself in a Florida neighborhood, with a grown Hispanic male following you in a car with a phone in his hand watching your every move...
> 
> ... do you assume he's just a concerned citizen that thinks you're suspicious? Or do you possibly... maybe... assume that THIS guy might be up to no good?
> 
> Does anybody see how stalking somebody because they look suspicious might not be wise? If you don't... well I don't know what to tell you. Even IF and that's a big IF Trayvon Martin initiated the conflict or confronted Zimmerman, the confrontation was reasonable and HE was acting out of self-defense if anybody was.
> 
> We have people on this thread calling him a criminal. They have no evidence that he ever committed a crime in his life. The fact is though this kid could have been a choir boy who gave his lunch money to poor kids at school everyday... he'd still be just another minority criminal. Again, God will have the final say...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with what you are saying but it seems like most people already have their minds made up that Trayvon was a criminal and Zimmerman was a diligent citizen exercising his civic duty in subduing an out of control black criminal threat, just the way it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only the rabid racists do.
> 
> Mark my words...heads will roll for this.
> 
> ...watch.
Click to expand...


I hope so my brother.


----------



## MarcATL

mudwhistle said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined).  What crime was happening?  What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful?  Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause.  My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.
> 
> I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law.  But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the text of the law:
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.
> 
> And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.
> 
> If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.
> 
> I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.
Click to expand...

Hey racist, deadly force is only allowed in YOUR HOME, your castle, you know, where you have no room/place to run/hide, not out in the streets where YOU YOURSELF CONFRONTED your victim....and have ample space to get away from the situation.

Gheddit!?!?!?


----------



## Sallow

mudwhistle said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Usually one doesn't hunt prey by loudly identifying themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the prey. Martin was running away..and Zimmerman wanted him to stop. Well he stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.
Click to expand...


Then you didn't listen to the 911 tapes. Zimmerman, himself, said he was running.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the prey. Martin was running away..and Zimmerman wanted him to stop. Well he stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then you didn't listen to the 911 tapes. Zimmerman, himself, said he was running.
Click to expand...


Plus didn't the cops tell him to stop following the boy?


----------



## MarcATL

Sallow said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the prey. Martin was running away..and Zimmerman wanted him to stop. Well he stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then you didn't listen to the 911 tapes. Zimmerman, himself, said he was running.
Click to expand...

Those rabid RW racist types only listen to one source of news/information, and that source never covers the story fully, only the RW side.

They probably fear the NRA or some stupid shat like that.

Yesterday on talk radio, I heard numerous gun-owners and NRAers call in saying this is a travesty and the law needs to come down on Zimmerman. They said that this gives the rest of gun-owners a bad name. I applaud those folks.


----------



## Immanuel

Ariux said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was somebody's child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That child was a criminal who got shot trying to harm someone.
> 
> <snip>
Click to expand...


Evidence doesn't prove that yet.  Mr. Zimmerman deserves the presumption of innocence from all of us, but so far we have no way of knowing what exactly happened that precipitated this tragic killing.

Immie


----------



## Ravi

mudwhistle said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does justify deadly force if you are in fear for your life.
> 
> I think you should STFU until you know what really happened.
> 
> 
> 
> If he was in fear of his life, he wouldn't have left his vehicle and pursued the kid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ravi....you really don't know anything, do you?
> 
> Seems the only violence you've witnessed is on the TV.
> 
> You've never been in a life-or-death situation.
> 
> Shit doesn't always go like it does in movies. Fights are not choreographed.
> 
> What it looks like is the hispanic neighborhood watch guy asked the guy who he was and what he was doing, the black kid got an attitude and it turned into a fight. They say the hispanic guy got a gash on his head from a can the black kid hit him with. He shouldn't have had a gun with him. He shot the kid and he's dead.
> 
> Now what does this all prove to you????
> 
> Does it prove that the GOP hates blacks?????
> 
> My guess is it does, in your mind at least. But what I'm seeing is two of the Democrat's special-interest groups fighting it out and racist opportunists trying to capitalize off of the situation because the shooter has what appears to be a white name.
> 
> As it is I have better things to do than deal with his media generated controversy.
Click to expand...

You guess wrong, but then again you're an idiot.

The authors of our stand your ground bill are equally outraged about this shooting and claim it is not justified under the law as written.

And they are Republicans.


----------



## MarcATL

Ravi said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he was in fear of his life, he wouldn't have left his vehicle and pursued the kid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi....you really don't know anything, do you?
> 
> Seems the only violence you've witnessed is on the TV.
> 
> You've never been in a life-or-death situation.
> 
> Shit doesn't always go like it does in movies. Fights are not choreographed.
> 
> What it looks like is the hispanic neighborhood watch guy asked the guy who he was and what he was doing, the black kid got an attitude and it turned into a fight. They say the hispanic guy got a gash on his head from a can the black kid hit him with. He shouldn't have had a gun with him. He shot the kid and he's dead.
> 
> Now what does this all prove to you????
> 
> Does it prove that the GOP hates blacks?????
> 
> My guess is it does, in your mind at least. But what I'm seeing is two of the Democrat's special-interest groups fighting it out and racist opportunists trying to capitalize off of the situation because the shooter has what appears to be a white name.
> 
> As it is I have better things to do than deal with his media generated controversy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guess wrong, but then again you're an idiot.
> 
> The authors of our stand your ground bill are equally outraged about this shooting and claim it is not justified under the law as written.
> 
> And they are Republicans.
Click to expand...

MudWhistle is just trying to whistle in the mud...as usual. Wrong and strong...as usual. Doesn't know the facts...as usual. Racist as all get up...as usual.

No surprises there.

What we can expect is that this law will eventually get shut down...as it should have never been instituted in the first place.


----------



## Ravi

MarcATL said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi....you really don't know anything, do you?
> 
> Seems the only violence you've witnessed is on the TV.
> 
> You've never been in a life-or-death situation.
> 
> Shit doesn't always go like it does in movies. Fights are not choreographed.
> 
> What it looks like is the hispanic neighborhood watch guy asked the guy who he was and what he was doing, the black kid got an attitude and it turned into a fight. They say the hispanic guy got a gash on his head from a can the black kid hit him with. He shouldn't have had a gun with him. He shot the kid and he's dead.
> 
> Now what does this all prove to you????
> 
> Does it prove that the GOP hates blacks?????
> 
> My guess is it does, in your mind at least. But what I'm seeing is two of the Democrat's special-interest groups fighting it out and racist opportunists trying to capitalize off of the situation because the shooter has what appears to be a white name.
> 
> As it is I have better things to do than deal with his media generated controversy.
> 
> 
> 
> You guess wrong, but then again you're an idiot.
> 
> The authors of our stand your ground bill are equally outraged about this shooting and claim it is not justified under the law as written.
> 
> And they are Republicans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MudWhistle is just trying to whistle in the mud...as usual. Wrong and strong...as usual. Doesn't know the facts...as usual. Racist as all get up...as usual.
> 
> No surprises there.
> 
> What we can expect is that this law will eventually get shut down...as it should have never been instituted in the first place.
Click to expand...

I agree it is a bad law because as we can see, it makes the cops decide to not make arrests and/or the district attorney decide not to prosecute if someone claims self-defense. That is wrong, imo, because self-defense MUST be demonstrated.

But according to the law as written, this shooting was not justified, EVEN if it turns out the kid smacked the perp upside the head, because the perp was the threatening party.


----------



## California Girl

High_Gravity said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no evidence to say he was running away.
> 
> You're making this shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Audio I heard you can CLEARLY hear Zimmerman say that Trayvon Martin was running away. He even said "these guys always get away"... why on Earth would he say that if the kid was coming toward him at the time? Then he tells the dispatcher where the kid is going and gets out of the car. The dispatcher asks "are you following him?" then Zimmerman tells him yes and the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that."
> 
> From what I've heard on the 9/11 tapes, I don't see where Trayvon committed a crime AT ALL.
> 
> He was a young African American male walking in the rain in a suburban neighborhood. This might be news to some of you, but... that's not a crime.
> 
> EVEN IF he first confronted Zimmerman, this was long after Zimmerman began unnecessarily stalking him while he was ON HIS CELL PHONE calling the police.
> 
> Let me inform some of you of the simple fact that Latinos and African Americans don't always get along in Florida... or pretty much anywhere in the US. If you're an African American teenager walking by yourself in a Florida neighborhood, with a grown Hispanic male following you in a car with a phone in his hand watching your every move...
> 
> ... do you assume he's just a concerned citizen that thinks you're suspicious? Or do you possibly... maybe... assume that THIS guy might be up to no good?
> 
> Does anybody see how stalking somebody because they look suspicious might not be wise? If you don't... well I don't know what to tell you. Even IF and that's a big IF Trayvon Martin initiated the conflict or confronted Zimmerman, the confrontation was reasonable and HE was acting out of self-defense if anybody was.
> 
> We have people on this thread calling him a criminal. They have no evidence that he ever committed a crime in his life. The fact is though this kid could have been a choir boy who gave his lunch money to poor kids at school everyday... he'd still be just another minority criminal. Again, God will have the final say...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with what you are saying but it seems like most people already have their minds made up that Trayvon was a criminal and Zimmerman was a diligent citizen exercising his civic duty in subduing an out of control black criminal threat, just the way it is.
Click to expand...


Sadly, I have to agree with you and Uppie. I'm open minded about the scenario until I have the full facts... and I prefer trial by jury to trial by media... In order to establish what happened we need ALL the facts, not just a 911 tape. On the evidence of the tape, I won't be defending Zimmerman though. 

My thoughts, and prayers, are with Trayvon's family who have not only lost a family member, but now have to be put through the 'trial by media' bullshit.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Ravi said:


> But according to the law as written, this shooting was not justified, EVEN if it turns out the kid smacked the perp upside the head, because the perp was the threatening party.



Was on private property of which Zimmerman has a property interest in and had no responsibility to retreat and was fully in the right in pursuing and questioning an unknown trespasser.


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> But according to the law as written, this shooting was not justified, EVEN if it turns out the kid smacked the perp upside the head, because the perp was the threatening party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was on private property of which Zimmerman has a property interest in and had no responsibility to retreat and was fully in the right in pursuing and questioning an unknown trespasser.
Click to expand...


So this incident happened on Zimmerman's front lawn?


----------



## OODA_Loop

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> But according to the law as written, this shooting was not justified, EVEN if it turns out the kid smacked the perp upside the head, because the perp was the threatening party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was on private property of which Zimmerman has a property interest in and had no responsibility to retreat and was fully in the right in pursuing and questioning an unknown trespasser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So this incident happened on Zimmerman's front lawn?
Click to expand...


Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was on private property of which Zimmerman has a property interest in and had no responsibility to retreat and was fully in the right in pursuing and questioning an unknown trespasser.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this incident happened on Zimmerman's front lawn?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
Click to expand...


His father lives in the gated community. The kid had every right to be there.

Did you read the actual law?

I didn't think so because it expressly forbids killing children.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So this incident happened on Zimmerman's front lawn?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His father lives in the gated community. The kid had every right to be there.
> 
> Did you read the actual law?
> 
> I didn't think so because it expressly forbids killing children.
Click to expand...


He chose to attack Zimmerman instead of clarifying his guest status.


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was on private property of which Zimmerman has a property interest in and had no responsibility to retreat and was fully in the right in pursuing and questioning an unknown trespasser.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this incident happened on Zimmerman's front lawn?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman called the cops and should have left it at that, going in pursuit of a suspect is not in the job description of the neighborhood watch sorry.


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His father lives in the gated community. The kid had every right to be there.
> 
> Did you read the actual law?
> 
> I didn't think so because it expressly forbids killing children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He chose to attack Zimmerman instead of clarifying his guest status.
Click to expand...


Ok you have made your stance fairly clear, you are on the side of the shooter whether he is right or wrong.


----------



## OODA_Loop

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So this incident happened on Zimmerman's front lawn?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman called the cops and should have left it at that, going in pursuit of a suspect is not in the job description of the neighborhood watch sorry.
Click to expand...


It is on private property, if the owner elects to be.


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman called the cops and should have left it at that, going in pursuit of a suspect is not in the job description of the neighborhood watch sorry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is on private property, if the owner elects to be.
Click to expand...


Bullshit.


----------



## OODA_Loop

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> His father lives in the gated community. The kid had every right to be there.
> 
> Did you read the actual law?
> 
> I didn't think so because it expressly forbids killing children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He chose to attack Zimmerman instead of clarifying his guest status.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok you have made your stance fairly clear, you are on the side of the shooter whether he is right or wrong.
Click to expand...


As a CCW holder in Florida I would be the first to call for his head if he was wrong.

Evidence supports his repeated self-defense testimony to LE...thus no arrest.

I am going with that until a jury makes a determination.


----------



## OODA_Loop

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman called the cops and should have left it at that, going in pursuit of a suspect is not in the job description of the neighborhood watch sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is on private property, if the owner elects to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
Click to expand...


Got it. I can't patrol and defend my private property.


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is on private property, if the owner elects to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Got it. I can't patrol and defend my private property.
Click to expand...


The whole gated community was not his fucking private property, as we already said the kid had a right to be there and was not "trespassing" like you say.


----------



## OODA_Loop

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got it. I can't patrol and defend my private property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The whole gated community was not his fucking private property, as we already said the kid had a right to be there and was not "trespassing" like you say.
Click to expand...


You are out of your depth on real estate law and gated communities in FL.   He was a guest and acting suspicious which warranted a 911 call.  I can question anyone unkonwn / guest on my private property.

Most declarations and covenants of associations require guest identification upon inquiry by owners.


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His father lives in the gated community. The kid had every right to be there.
> 
> Did you read the actual law?
> 
> I didn't think so because it expressly forbids killing children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He chose to attack Zimmerman instead of clarifying his guest status.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your concession.

Now for your next boneheaded point. We don't know who attacked first. We do know that Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher not to follow the boy. We do that the boy was unarmed. We do know that Zimmerman said _these assholes always get away_ implying that he followed the boy because "he was getting away" and not because he was in any fear for his life.

We do know that Florida law does not allow the stand your ground excuse to be used against children.


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got it. I can't patrol and defend my private property.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole gated community was not his fucking private property, as we already said the kid had a right to be there and was not "trespassing" like you say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are out of your depth on real estate law and gated communities in FL.  Kid was a guest and acting suspicious which warranted a 911 call.  I can question anyone on my private property.
Click to expand...


What part of the kid had a right to be there do you not understand?


----------



## Emma

OODA_Loop said:


> He chose to attack Zimmerman instead of clarifying his guest status.



We don't know that he did attack zimmerman.


----------



## OODA_Loop

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of the kid had a right to be there do you not understand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see where your emotions make it feel bad.
> 
> Private, gated communities and their bona fide residents have the right to question unkowns in their private community.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## OODA_Loop

Emma said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> He chose to attack Zimmerman instead of clarifying his guest status.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't know that he did attack zimmerman.
Click to expand...


Actually, the wounds, grass stains and what if hinted at other credible evidence have supported his testimony in so much that the PD nor DA didn't arrest him.


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can see where your emotions make it feel bad.
> 
> Private, gated communities and their bona fide residents have the right to question unkowns in their private community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a fucking retard, eat a neg for your stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## OODA_Loop

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precious.  If you cant use the law to support your emotions.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...



This is reminiscent of the homicide of Yoshihiro Hattori by Rodney Peairs.

Though it seems this shooting is probably even less "accidental"


----------



## High_Gravity

OODA_Loop said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Precious.  If you cant use the law to support your emotions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, you are a fucking retard and thats all there is to it. Not your fault.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Ariux

Ravi said:


> Now for your next boneheaded point. We don't know who attacked first. We do know that Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher not to follow the boy. We do that the boy was unarmed. We do know that Zimmerman said _these assholes always get away_ implying that he followed the boy because "he was getting away" and not because he was in any fear for his life.



HAHA, that asshole didn't get away!  

We do know who attacked first.  The black attacked first.  We know this because this is the what the witness(es) say.   We know this because of the physical evidence of assault, especially the wound in the back of Zimmerman's head, from the black jumping him from behind.  We know this because someone with a gun isn't going to physically assault someone.   We know this because Zimmerman called the police rather than choosing to directly deal with the black himself.  

The black, on the other hand, took a break from looking for things to steal or vandalize to attack the person he saw following him.

All you've got is Zimmerman following the black.  But, you have a nigerian IQ if you think he was following with the intention of confrontation, rather than just to keep track of the black's location.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Ariux said:


> We know this because someone with a gun isn't going to physically assault someone.



Dumbest statement of the week.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now for your next boneheaded point. We don't know who attacked first. We do know that Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher not to follow the boy. We do that the boy was unarmed. We do know that Zimmerman said _these assholes always get away_ implying that he followed the boy because "he was getting away" and not because he was in any fear for his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAHA, that asshole didn't get away!
> 
> We do know who attacked first.  The black attacked first.  We know this because this is the what the witness(es) say.   We know this because of the physical evidence of assault, especially the wound in the back of Zimmerman's head, from the black jumping him from behind.  We know this because someone with a gun isn't going to physically assault someone.   We know this because Zimmerman called the police rather than choosing to directly deal with the black himself.
> 
> The black, on the other hand, took a break from looking for things to steal or vandalize to attack the person he saw following him.
> 
> All you've got is Zimmerman following the black.  But, you have a nigerian IQ if you think he was following with the intention of confrontation, rather than just to keep track of the black's location.
Click to expand...


Alright we got it, you are a racist faggot piece of shit who will on the side of the shooter no matter what, you constantly refer to the victim as "the Black". You are not slick we can see right through you bitch.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

High_Gravity said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now for your next boneheaded point. We don't know who attacked first. We do know that Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher not to follow the boy. We do that the boy was unarmed. We do know that Zimmerman said _these assholes always get away_ implying that he followed the boy because "he was getting away" and not because he was in any fear for his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAHA, that asshole didn't get away!
> 
> We do know who attacked first.  The black attacked first.  We know this because this is the what the witness(es) say.   We know this because of the physical evidence of assault, especially the wound in the back of Zimmerman's head, from the black jumping him from behind.  We know this because someone with a gun isn't going to physically assault someone.   We know this because Zimmerman called the police rather than choosing to directly deal with the black himself.
> 
> The black, on the other hand, took a break from looking for things to steal or vandalize to attack the person he saw following him.
> 
> All you've got is Zimmerman following the black.  But, you have a nigerian IQ if you think he was following with the intention of confrontation, rather than just to keep track of the black's location.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Alright we got it, you are a racist *faggot* piece of shit who will on the side of the shooter no matter what, you constantly refer to the victim as "the Black". You are not slick we can see right through you bitch.
Click to expand...




The hypocrisy.


----------



## High_Gravity

OohPooPahDoo said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAHA, that asshole didn't get away!
> 
> We do know who attacked first.  The black attacked first.  We know this because this is the what the witness(es) say.   We know this because of the physical evidence of assault, especially the wound in the back of Zimmerman's head, from the black jumping him from behind.  We know this because someone with a gun isn't going to physically assault someone.   We know this because Zimmerman called the police rather than choosing to directly deal with the black himself.
> 
> The black, on the other hand, took a break from looking for things to steal or vandalize to attack the person he saw following him.
> 
> All you've got is Zimmerman following the black.  But, you have a nigerian IQ if you think he was following with the intention of confrontation, rather than just to keep track of the black's location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright we got it, you are a racist *faggot* piece of shit who will on the side of the shooter no matter what, you constantly refer to the victim as "the Black". You are not slick we can see right through you bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hypocrisy.
Click to expand...


Yeah whatever.


----------



## Ravi

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> We know this because someone with a gun isn't going to physically assault someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumbest statement of the week.
Click to expand...

I don't know, calling the kid "the black" is even stupider. But of course it suits his purpose to dehumanize the victim.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Ravi said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> We know this because someone with a gun isn't going to physically assault someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumbest statement of the week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know, calling the kid "the black" is even stupider. But of course it suits his purpose to dehumanize the victim.
Click to expand...


There are dumb statements and there are racist ones.

The idea that someone with a gun would never physically assault someone is just retarded.


----------



## Crackerjack

George Costanza said:


> This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.


Wrong.  Concealed handgun license holders are statistically more law abiding than the average citizen.


----------



## Amelia

manifold said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...this man thought the kid was up to no good based on his skin color when it is perfectly normal for young blacks to be walking around the community.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even realize how retardedly contradictory ^this statement is?
Click to expand...




It isn't.  

It was normal for blacks to be in his community AND he showed his suspicion of them many times.

Trayvon's death was the end of a sick pattern which no one put together in time.


----------



## Sallow

OODA_Loop said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> He chose to attack Zimmerman instead of clarifying his guest status.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't know that he did attack zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, the wounds, grass stains and what if hinted at other credible evidence have supported his testimony in so much that the PD nor DA didn't arrest him.
Click to expand...


No they don't. And Zimmerman was arrested for fighting a cop.

Zimmerman's own testimony contradicts itself. He got out of the vehicle to check for a street sign? In a neighborhood he lived in? On a street with no signs?

And Murphy, who by Zimmerman's own admission on the 911 calls, was running away. Why in the world would he double back to attack a guy who he's running away from?


----------



## Amelia

Ravi said:


> I wonder if Zimmerman is still patrolling the neighborhood. If so, I wonder if anyone that lives there feels safe with him doing that.





He's gone.  Moving van took his things away.  Last I heard (NBC news last night or the night before) his whereabouts are still unknown.


----------



## MikeK

George Costanza said:


> This is what comes of allowing citizens to tote guns.


What would you suggest as an alternative?  

The only possible alternative is a law against citizens carrying guns, which will disarm all _law-abiding_ citizens.  

Which leaves . . . 

The simple fact where guns in America is concerned is the toothpaste is out of the tube.


----------



## Ariux

High_Gravity said:


> Alright we got it, you are a racist faggot piece of shit who will on the side of the shooter no matter what, you constantly refer to the victim as "the Black". You are not slick we can see right through you bitch.



I call the victim "Zimmerman".  You call the black the victim because he's black.  Deal with your own racism before you accuse me of such.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright we got it, you are a racist faggot piece of shit who will on the side of the shooter no matter what, you constantly refer to the victim as "the Black". You are not slick we can see right through you bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call the victim "Zimmerman".  You call the black the victim because he's black.  Deal with your own racism before you accuse me of such.
Click to expand...


How is Zimmerman a victim when is still alive? you should just come out and admit you are a racist and you side with Zimmerman, even though he is Hispanic and not white. You are a dumb motherfucker.


----------



## Ariux

High_Gravity said:


> How is Zimmerman a victim when is still alive? you should just come out and admit you are a racist and you side with Zimmerman, even though he is Hispanic and not white. You are a dumb motherfucker.



Zimmerman was assaulted.  He was hit from behind.  He was knocked down.  He was beaten.   He yelled for help.  He's the victim.

Zimmerman had no reason to confront or assault the black.   The black had reason to assault Zimmerman, he saw Zimmerman following him.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is Zimmerman a victim when is still alive? you should just come out and admit you are a racist and you side with Zimmerman, even though he is Hispanic and not white. You are a dumb motherfucker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was assaulted.  He was hit from behind.  He was knocked down.  He was beaten.   He yelled for help.  He's the victim.
> 
> Zimmerman had no reason to confront or assault the black.   The black had reason to assault Zimmerman, he saw Zimmerman following him.
Click to expand...


Whatever we all know you are a racist cocksucker who is with the shooter no matter what because of your racism, however you need to note the shooter is Hispanic and not white.


----------



## Peach

High_Gravity said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is Zimmerman a victim when is still alive? you should just come out and admit you are a racist and you side with Zimmerman, even though he is Hispanic and not white. You are a dumb motherfucker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was assaulted.  He was hit from behind.  He was knocked down.  He was beaten.   He yelled for help.  He's the victim.
> 
> Zimmerman had no reason to confront or assault the black.   The black had reason to assault Zimmerman, he saw Zimmerman following him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever we all know you are a racist cocksucker who is with the shooter no matter what because of your racism, however you need to note the shooter is Hispanic and not white.
Click to expand...


And, killer did not want people like the victim in his neighborhood.


----------



## Ariux

High_Gravity said:


> Whatever we all know you are a racist cocksucker who is with the shooter no matter what because of your racism, however you need to note the shooter is Hispanic and not white.



Even worse than just Hispanic, a Hispanic Jew.  Why would I side with that, against an American Christian, albeit black?  It's the evidence.


----------



## Crackerjack

Ariux said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever we all know you are a racist cocksucker who is with the shooter no matter what because of your racism, however you need to note the shooter is Hispanic and not white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even worse than just Hispanic, a Hispanic Jew.  Why would I side with that, against an American Christian, albeit black?  It's the evidence.
Click to expand...

What about a black Jew?  Whereabouts on your hierarchy would that fall?


----------



## ABikerSailor

I'm wondering why (1) Zimmerman is STILL walking around with a concealed carry liscence, and (2) why is this fucker still free?

Hey...........even when police officers shoot somone in the line of duty, they are put on paid leave until the investigation is complete.

Shouln't Zimmerman AT THE VERY LEAST have to surrender his permit?  He's proven that he's capable of shooting unarmed people.


----------



## yidnar

the guy that shot the teen was hispanic !!! guess you libbs hate that !!


----------



## Peach

ABikerSailor said:


> I'm wondering why (1) Zimmerman is STILL walking around with a concealed carry liscence, and (2) why is this fucker still free?
> 
> Hey...........even when police officers shoot somone in the line of duty, they are put on paid leave until the investigation is complete.
> 
> Shouln't Zimmerman AT THE VERY LEAST have to surrender his permit?  He's proven that he's capable of shooting unarmed people.




My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Peach said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering why (1) Zimmerman is STILL walking around with a concealed carry liscence, and (2) why is this fucker still free?
> 
> Hey...........even when police officers shoot somone in the line of duty, they are put on paid leave until the investigation is complete.
> 
> Shouln't Zimmerman AT THE VERY LEAST have to surrender his permit?  He's proven that he's capable of shooting unarmed people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
Click to expand...


Unless of course, you're a bigoted racist with failed dreams of being a police officer, which later turns into a wannabe cop acting out on the neighborhood watch (which you self appoint yourself to, as you're too nutz to be actually picked).

I hope this fucker goes down and soon.  At the very minimum, bring him in, book him, let him make bail, take away his gun liscence and put him on trial.

If he's found innocent?  Let him walk (they let Casey Anthony off).

If he's guilty?  Send him to prison and let the brothers have some fun with him.


----------



## Ariux

ABikerSailor said:


> I hope this fucker goes down and soon.  At the very minimum, bring him in, book him, let him make bail, take away his gun liscence and put him on trial.



He won't be arrested.  But, you haters will get a consolation prize.   He'll be taken to civil court where a jury of women and apes will find him liable for a gazillion dollars.


----------



## Peach

ABikerSailor said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering why (1) Zimmerman is STILL walking around with a concealed carry liscence, and (2) why is this fucker still free?
> 
> Hey...........even when police officers shoot somone in the line of duty, they are put on paid leave until the investigation is complete.
> 
> Shouln't Zimmerman AT THE VERY LEAST have to surrender his permit?  He's proven that he's capable of shooting unarmed people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless of course, you're a bigoted racist with failed dreams of being a police officer, which later turns into a wannabe cop acting out on the neighborhood watch (which you self appoint yourself to, as you're too nutz to be actually picked).
> 
> I hope this fucker goes down and soon.  At the very minimum, bring him in, book him, let him make bail, take away his gun liscence and put him on trial.
> 
> If he's found innocent?  Let him walk (they let Casey Anthony off).
> 
> If he's guilty?  Send him to prison and let the brothers have some fun with him.
Click to expand...



That'll be tough with no alcohol/drug tests, no weapon, and no other investigation at the scene............................................sad.


----------



## Si modo

Ariux said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this fucker goes down and soon.  At the very minimum, bring him in, book him, let him make bail, take away his gun liscence and put him on trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He won't be arrested.  But, you haters will get a consolation prize.   He'll be taken to civil court where a jury of women and apes will find him liable for a gazillion dollars.
Click to expand...

Racist fucktard.


----------



## Ariux

Crackerjack said:


> What about a black Jew?  Whereabouts on your hierarchy would that fall?



If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.


----------



## Salt Jones

Ariux said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about a black Jew?  Whereabouts on your hierarchy would that fall?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.
Click to expand...


Sure Yidnar Jr, sure.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this fucker goes down and soon.  At the very minimum, bring him in, book him, let him make bail, take away his gun liscence and put him on trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He won't be arrested.  But, you haters will get a consolation prize.   He'll be taken to civil court where a jury of women and apes will find him liable for a gazillion dollars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Racist fucktard.
Click to expand...


Gotta agree Si; that was a sick post.


----------



## yidnar

Salt Jones said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about a black Jew?  Whereabouts on your hierarchy would that fall?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure Yidnar Jr, sure.
Click to expand...

he is hispanic !!! and I have lost three friends to robberies committed by shitskins !!!wont see that on the damn news !!


----------



## Crackerjack

Ariux said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about a black Jew?  Whereabouts on your hierarchy would that fall?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Peach

Crackerjack said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about a black Jew?  Whereabouts on your hierarchy would that fall?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay, thanks for clarifying.
Click to expand...



Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.


----------



## Crackerjack

Peach said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.
Click to expand...

Um ... yeah.  Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## Ariux

Crackerjack said:


> Okay, thanks for clarifying.



It's not very original.  I cribbed an admissions policy at a nearby liberal University.


----------



## The Gadfly

High_Gravity said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So this incident happened on Zimmerman's front lawn?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially yes.  Gated communities in Florida contain private rights-of-way dedicated to an owners association with owner's holding fee to equal unidivided interest in the roads and common areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman called the cops and should have left it at that, going in pursuit of a suspect is not in the job description of the neighborhood watch sorry.
Click to expand...


Here, HG, is the single most troubling thing Zimmerman apparently did prior to the shooting. FOLLOWING and OBSERVING a suspicious person (preferably from a discrete distance, is OK; nothing wrong or criminal about that under the circumstances. HOT PURSUIT of a fleeing subject NOT know to have committed  a felony (or any crime at all, in this case) is another matter entirely; there is NO good reason to do that, none at all. That still doesn't make Zimmerman guilty of a crime, in and of itself, but it most certainly does call into question both his judgment, and his state of mind at that moment (as does the racial epithet heard on the 911 tape).

The key question after that, is what happened next. Let's *assume* for the sake of argument, that Zimmerman caught up to Martin (I say "assume", because it's not clear to me that an older, heavier man (what would you guess Zimmerman weighs-if he's of average height, I'd guess 200-220), could run down an athletic 140 lb. 17 year-old , if the kid was running and had even a slight head start-think about that for a moment). After words were exchanged, who struck who first (or grabbed who first)? Do we know that? 

That's the next key point, because IF Zimmerman made the initial physical contact, Martin could then have hit him in self-defense. IF Martin hit Zimmerman first, and continued to hit him, then Martin initiated the physical part, i.e.committed assault and battery, and Zimmerman's subsequent actions may indeed constitute self-defense.

Those are the first keys to what really occurred in this case. Until those questions are answered, this is either a case of self-defense, or a case of voluntary manslaughter (2nd degree murder, in some states, depending on statute.)


----------



## The Gadfly

Peach said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.
Click to expand...


Close, but not entirely, Peach; there are a couple of other facts that have to be sorted out, before we know whether that death was a case of manslaughter, or self-defense; but it's pretty clearly one or the other.


----------



## Ariux

The Gadfly said:


> Here, HG, is the single most troubling thing Zimmerman apparently did prior to the shooting. FOLLOWING and OBSERVING a suspicious person



Following a suspect is natural, to prevent the suspect from getting away.  Zimmerman could also have interpreted what the 911 operator said as instructions to follow, "Let me know if the guy does anything else..."

In any case, it would be tough to show that Zimmerman followed with any intent beyond tracking the suspect, or that he continued to follow after he was told not to.

Yes, then it comes down to he made physical contact first.  A confrontation would have been by the suspect's choice, given that he could have out-ran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman claimed he was hit from behind, and was bleeding from the back of the head, which also gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.   And, I just don't see a man with a gun physically assaulting anyone.

But, I do see a young hothead attacking someone he thinks is following him.

Anyway, this case demonstrates the importance of shooting to kill, if you're shooting in self-defense.  If the black survived the gunshot, he would claim that he was attacked first, and no liberal would doubt him.  The evidence would be irrelevant.


----------



## Ravi

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, HG, is the single most troubling thing Zimmerman apparently did prior to the shooting. FOLLOWING and OBSERVING a suspicious person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a suspect is natural, to prevent the suspect from getting away.  Zimmerman could also have interpreted what the 911 operator said as instructions to follow, "Let me know if the guy does anything else..."
> 
> In any case, it would be tough to show that Zimmerman followed with any intent beyond tracking the suspect, or that he continued to follow after he was told not to.
> 
> Yes, then it comes down to he made physical contact first.  A confrontation would have been by the suspect's choice, given that he could have out-ran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman claimed he was hit from behind, and was bleeding from the back of the head, which also gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.   And, I just don't see a man with a gun physically assaulting anyone.
> 
> But, I do see a young hothead attacking someone he thinks is following him.
> 
> Anyway, this case demonstrates the importance of shooting to kill, if you're shooting in self-defense.  If the black survived the gunshot, he would claim that he was attacked first, and no liberal would doubt him.  The evidence would be irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I hope when you're in hell someone rapes you five times a day....with time for your wounds to recuperate in between, of course. And you think it's "the black."


----------



## Peach

The Gadfly said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Close, but not entirely, Peach; there are a couple of other facts that have to be sorted out, before we know whether that death was a case of manslaughter, or self-defense; but it's pretty clearly one or the other.
Click to expand...


The statute might be interpreted as to allow DEADLY force only if an assumption of deadly force being used can be made. The kid had no deadly weapons, a frustrating case. That is why I posted read the entire Chapter, 766, Florida Statutes.  I see 2nd degree murder as an option also.  Other than that, I'll stay out the law online. Read Chapter 766 if you really interested.


----------



## The Gadfly

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, HG, is the single most troubling thing Zimmerman apparently did prior to the shooting. FOLLOWING and OBSERVING a suspicious person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a suspect is natural, to prevent the suspect from getting away.  Zimmerman could also have interpreted what the 911 operator said as instructions to follow, "Let me know if the guy does anything else..."
> 
> In any case, it would be tough to show that Zimmerman followed with any intent beyond tracking the suspect, or that he continued to follow after he was told not to.
> 
> Yes, then it comes down to he made physical contact first.  A confrontation would have been by the suspect's choice, given that he could have out-ran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman claimed he was hit from behind, and was bleeding from the back of the head, which also gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.   And, I just don't see a man with a gun physically assaulting anyone.
> 
> But, I do see a young hothead attacking someone he thinks is following him.
> 
> Anyway, this case demonstrates the importance of shooting to kill, if you're shooting in self-defense.  If the black survived the gunshot, he would claim that he was attacked first, and no liberal would doubt him.  The evidence would be irrelevant.
Click to expand...


Now, let's continue to follow the chain of reasoning I started earlier. We know Zimmerman had some sort of bleeding wound to the back of his head; so how did that injury occur? Let's look at the known facts: the scene of the final confrontation is a grassy area with a sidewalk running through it. We know the ground was wet, it had been raining (and was at the time). We have witnesses who saw Zimmerman on the ground, so he must have fallen, been knocked  (or thrown) down by Martin, or tried to tackle Martin. Given that police noted grass stains on the BACK (but not the front) of Zimmerman's jacket, we can rule out the first and last alternatives since either of those would have had him falling forward, and there would have been obvious grass stains on the front of his clothing, including the front of his trousers as well as his jacket. None were noted . ( It's a pity the police did not photograph him on the scene, because that would settle the question). The most likely conclusion is that Martin knocked Zimmerman down. Did Martin hit Zimmerman from behind? Well possibly, but not necessarily; the injury could have come from either a direct blow from a fist, or from Zimmerman's head striking the ground, especially the sidewalk. There is thus no conclusive proof that Zimmerman's head injury *had* to have come from a direct blow from behind; his account of that is therefore not proven true, but not proven necessarily false, either. Once again the question of whether Zimmerman grabbed Martin before Martin struck him, or whether Martin struck first is still unclear, but of critical importance to the case.. 

So far the preponderance of the evidence tells us that Martin DID strike Zimmerman at least once, and likely more than once (there was blood on his face possibly indicating a second blow, perhaps more). It is also quite physically possible that Martin could have knocked Zimmerman down; while Martin was smaller, it's reasonable to suppose that he was younger and quicker than the older and bulkier Zimmerman, and he was large enough to have the strength to Knock Zimmerman down with a well-placed punch or two. So far neither self-defense nor manslaughter is proven.

The next question is the voice yelling for help on the 911 tape; is it Zimmerman, on the ground and under attack yelling for help, or is it Martin, after Zimmerman pulled his gun, but before the shot was fired. It could be ithere; Zimmerman's voice is not deep; it's relatively high pitched. Hopefully, forensic analysis of the 911 tape can determine whose voice we hear, and perhaps, what is being said. Pending that, there is no conclusive evidence.

Martin was found face down; was he shot in the back? There is a common misconception, (expressed by some posters here) that a person shot from the front will always fall backwards. so that if Martin fell on his face as found, he *must* have been shot from behind. Having shot a considerable number of men in combat, and seen even more shot in that situation, I can tell you that a man shot from the front may just as easily fall forward, and a man shot from behind can just as easily fall backward.. Sometimes an individual shot from in front will be thrown violently backward( the result of a reaction of the nervous system to the impact of the bullet, I'm told) but that does not happen all or even most of the time in reality, no matter what you may have seen in the movies. Here, we have to have the autopsy findings (which should be conclusive on this point. The fact that Martin fell face down proves absolutely nothing.  Still no proof for either self-defense, or manslaughter.


----------



## Ariux

Peach said:


> The statute might be interpreted as to allow DEADLY force only if an assumption of deadly force being used can be made. The kid had no deadly weapons, a frustrating case. That is why I posted read the entire Chapter, 766, Florida Statutes.  I see 2nd degree murder as an option also.  Other than that, I'll stay out the law online. Read Chapter 766 if you really interested.



The title is "Use of deadly force; presumption of fear of... great* bodily harm*."


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, HG, is the single most troubling thing Zimmerman apparently did prior to the shooting. FOLLOWING and OBSERVING a suspicious person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a suspect is natural, to prevent the suspect from getting away.  Zimmerman could also have interpreted what the 911 operator said as instructions to follow, "Let me know if the guy does anything else..."
> 
> In any case, it would be tough to show that Zimmerman followed with any intent beyond tracking the suspect, or that he continued to follow after he was told not to.
> 
> Yes, then it comes down to he made physical contact first.  A confrontation would have been by the suspect's choice, given that he could have out-ran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman claimed he was hit from behind, and was bleeding from the back of the head, which also gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.   And, I just don't see a man with a gun physically assaulting anyone.
> 
> But, I do see a young hothead attacking someone he thinks is following him.
> 
> Anyway, this case demonstrates the importance of shooting to kill, if you're shooting in self-defense.  If the black survived the gunshot, he would claim that he was attacked first, and no liberal would doubt him.  The evidence would be irrelevant.
Click to expand...


Hey stupid...............did you not hear the 911 call MADE BY ZIMMERMAN?  The 911 operator TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW THE KID.

Zimmerman already fucked up.

Too bad you can't see that you retarded sperm slurping colon jousting cock smoker.


----------



## The Gadfly

Peach said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close, but not entirely, Peach; there are a couple of other facts that have to be sorted out, before we know whether that death was a case of manslaughter, or self-defense; but it's pretty clearly one or the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The statute might be interpreted as to allow DEADLY force only if an assumption of deadly force being used can be made. The kid had no deadly weapons, a frustrating case. That is why I posted read the entire Chapter, 766, Florida Statutes.  I see 2nd degree murder as an option also.  Other than that, I'll stay out the law online. Read Chapter 766 if you really interested.
Click to expand...

Peach, Thanks. This could turn on what court precedent in FL is on that. Here, precedent is generally that a reasonable  fear of serious bodily injury is sufficient (along with the other required factors) to establish self-defense. The defendant does not have to prove he acted reasonably; the state must prove he did not. The key word here is "reasonable"; the standard for that is usually held to be ordinary common sense. Here, precedent says that while an assailant's use of deadly force of any sort is sufficient to establish reasonable fear, it is not REQUIRED in order to establish "reasonable" fear of serious bodily injuryThe presence of such factors as multiple assailants, an assailant much younger, larger and/or stronger than the victim, or having a substantial advantage over the victim and not exercising reasonable restraint (such as a continued beating of someone not effectively resisting) has been held to meet the statutory requirement. This last is somewhat murky, in the case of one-on-one altercations where lethal force was not being used by the aggressor The same may be true in FL (but note that any benefit of the doubt usually goes to the defendant, unless otherwise stipulated.)

Incidentally the crime I describe as voluntary manslaughter is, I believe, equivalent to the FL 2nd degree murder statute. i.e. homicide, not premeditated, but not justified, in which the defendant could reasonably have expected his actions might result in the death of the victim. 

This case may well ultimately turn on whether the state can clearly prove that Martin struck Zimmerman with sufficient reasonable cause to fear serious bodily injury HIMSELF due to unlawful FIRST use of force By Zimmerman; ironically, that is whether Martin was acting in self-defense himself. An emotional case, to be sure but a difficult one for the state from a burden of proof perspective. If I were the prosecutor, could I indict Zimmerman, based on the facts we know? Possibly. Could I get a conviction on those facts? Highly doubtful.


----------



## The Gadfly

ABikerSailor said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, HG, is the single most troubling thing Zimmerman apparently did prior to the shooting. FOLLOWING and OBSERVING a suspicious person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a suspect is natural, to prevent the suspect from getting away.  Zimmerman could also have interpreted what the 911 operator said as instructions to follow, "Let me know if the guy does anything else..."
> 
> In any case, it would be tough to show that Zimmerman followed with any intent beyond tracking the suspect, or that he continued to follow after he was told not to.
> 
> Yes, then it comes down to he made physical contact first.  A confrontation would have been by the suspect's choice, given that he could have out-ran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman claimed he was hit from behind, and was bleeding from the back of the head, which also gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.   And, I just don't see a man with a gun physically assaulting anyone.
> 
> But, I do see a young hothead attacking someone he thinks is following him.
> 
> Anyway, this case demonstrates the importance of shooting to kill, if you're shooting in self-defense.  If the black survived the gunshot, he would claim that he was attacked first, and no liberal would doubt him.  The evidence would be irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid...............did you not hear the 911 call MADE BY ZIMMERMAN?  The 911 operator TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW THE KID.
> 
> Zimmerman already fucked up.
> 
> Too bad you can't see that you retarded sperm slurping colon jousting cock smoker.
Click to expand...

ABS, calm down. A dispatcher's advice is just that, advice, not a legal order that anyone must obey. The real first question, again, is did Zimmerman chase Martin when he apparently ran, without Martin having committed a crime? Even that is NOT criminal, but it IS poor judgement. THe main question, though, is what happened next. When Martin struck Zimmerman (it's reasonably conclusive that he did so) did he have sufficient LAWFUL cause to do so? Absent some major fact we don't know, that's what this case turns on (if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin had lawful cause to strike Zimmerman.)


----------



## Zoom

By the way, the shooter was WHITE.  By the way, we are post racial now that Obama is in the white house, remember?


----------



## Ariux

The Gadfly said:


> So far the preponderance of the evidence tells us that Martin DID strike Zimmerman at least once, and likely more than once (there was blood on his face possibly indicating a second blow, perhaps more).



Yes, now what would a reasonable person conclude about who initiated the fisticuffs?  The one with a gun, who knew police were moments away?  Or, the one who thought the other was "getting into his business" and may not have known about the gun?



> The next question is the voice yelling for help on the 911 tape;



Given that we can't recognize the voice yelling for help (for an extended length of time), what would a reasonable person conclude?  The screaming sounds like it's coming from someone under extreme physical duress.  That's not someone who simply has a gun pointed at him.  It's from someone in a physical altercation.   So, it could be either one.  But, if Zimmerman was winning the fight, why would he have shot?  Also, there's nothing in the yelling that suggests someone's facing a gun, e.g. no "don't shoot."

And, why didn't the person yelling for help not run away?  Zimmerman couldn't have outran the black kid, so he wouldn't be able to escape the fight.  The black kid could have ran away to escape the fight, and not needed to yell for help.  (As yet to be revealed, what bodily injuries did the black kid have, other than the gun shot.)

We can't conclude much, but given the law, we must conclude that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.  Zimmerman's zealousness may have got the ball rolling, but the preponderance of the evidence is that it was self-defense.  There's no motive for the shooting except self-defense.


----------



## Zoom

The Gadfly said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following a suspect is natural, to prevent the suspect from getting away.  Zimmerman could also have interpreted what the 911 operator said as instructions to follow, "Let me know if the guy does anything else..."
> 
> In any case, it would be tough to show that Zimmerman followed with any intent beyond tracking the suspect, or that he continued to follow after he was told not to.
> 
> Yes, then it comes down to he made physical contact first.  A confrontation would have been by the suspect's choice, given that he could have out-ran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman claimed he was hit from behind, and was bleeding from the back of the head, which also gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.   And, I just don't see a man with a gun physically assaulting anyone.
> 
> But, I do see a young hothead attacking someone he thinks is following him.
> 
> Anyway, this case demonstrates the importance of shooting to kill, if you're shooting in self-defense.  If the black survived the gunshot, he would claim that he was attacked first, and no liberal would doubt him.  The evidence would be irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid...............did you not hear the 911 call MADE BY ZIMMERMAN?  The 911 operator TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW THE KID.
> 
> Zimmerman already fucked up.
> 
> Too bad you can't see that you retarded sperm slurping colon jousting cock smoker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ABS, calm down. A dispatcher's advice is just that, advice, not a legal order that anyone must obey. The real first question, again, is did Zimmerman chase Martin when he apparently ran, without Martin having committed a crime? Even that is NOT criminal, but it IS poor judgement. THe main question, though, is what happened next. When Martin struck Zimmerman (it's reasonably conclusive that he did so) did he have sufficient LAWFUL cause to do so? Absent some major fact we don't know, that's what this case turns on (if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin had lawful cause to strike Zimmerman.)
Click to expand...


That white guy stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?  

I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.  

PERIOD.


----------



## Zoom

Ravi said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, HG, is the single most troubling thing Zimmerman apparently did prior to the shooting. FOLLOWING and OBSERVING a suspicious person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a suspect is natural, to prevent the suspect from getting away.  Zimmerman could also have interpreted what the 911 operator said as instructions to follow, "Let me know if the guy does anything else..."
> 
> In any case, it would be tough to show that Zimmerman followed with any intent beyond tracking the suspect, or that he continued to follow after he was told not to.
> 
> Yes, then it comes down to he made physical contact first.  A confrontation would have been by the suspect's choice, given that he could have out-ran Zimmerman.  Zimmerman claimed he was hit from behind, and was bleeding from the back of the head, which also gives the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.   And, I just don't see a man with a gun physically assaulting anyone.
> 
> But, I do see a young hothead attacking someone he thinks is following him.
> 
> Anyway, this case demonstrates the importance of shooting to kill, if you're shooting in self-defense.  If the black survived the gunshot, he would claim that he was attacked first, and no liberal would doubt him.  The evidence would be irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hope when you're in hell someone rapes you five times a day....with time for your wounds to recuperate in between, of course. And you think it's "the black."
Click to expand...


I hope he ends up in Jail and Zimmerman is his celly.


----------



## Si modo

Zoom said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid...............did you not hear the 911 call MADE BY ZIMMERMAN?  The 911 operator TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW THE KID.
> 
> Zimmerman already fucked up.
> 
> Too bad you can't see that you retarded sperm slurping colon jousting cock smoker.
> 
> 
> 
> ABS, calm down. A dispatcher's advice is just that, advice, not a legal order that anyone must obey. The real first question, again, is did Zimmerman chase Martin when he apparently ran, without Martin having committed a crime? Even that is NOT criminal, but it IS poor judgement. THe main question, though, is what happened next. When Martin struck Zimmerman (it's reasonably conclusive that he did so) did he have sufficient LAWFUL cause to do so? Absent some major fact we don't know, that's what this case turns on (if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin had lawful cause to strike Zimmerman.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That white guy stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.


----------



## Ariux

Si modo said:


> Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.



Police believe that Zimmerman was screaming.  One witness, who apparently told the police something other than she told the media later, told the media that it was the black who was screaming.  But, that's not something she witnessed.  That's something she concluded by reasoning that because the screaming ended with the gunshot, it must have been the black screaming.


----------



## Si modo

Ariux said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police believe that Zimmerman was screaming.  One witness, who apparently told the police something other than she told the media later, told the media that it was the black who was screaming.  But, that's not something she witnessed.  That's something she concluded by reasoning that because the screaming ended with the gunshot, it must have been the black screaming.
Click to expand...

I asked for a link, racist fucktard.  I don't take anyone for their word, least of all racist fucktards.

If it's not supported, it's nothing but cheap talk.


----------



## Ariux

Si modo said:


> I asked for a link, racist fucktard.  I don't take anyone for their word, least of all racist fucktards.



Oh, don't be so upset.  You can find another boy for jungle love someplace else.  You can also find your own links.


----------



## Si modo

Ariux said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked for a link, racist fucktard.  I don't take anyone for their word, least of all racist fucktards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, don't be so upset.  You can find another boy for jungle love someplace else.  You can also find your own links.
Click to expand...

*chuckle*  Not that anyone ever expected a racist fucktard to know anything about burden.....


----------



## Salt Jones

Ariux said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked for a link, racist fucktard.  I don't take anyone for their word, least of all racist fucktards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, don't be so upset.  You can find another boy for jungle love someplace else.  You can also find your own links.
Click to expand...


I guess that means you are too lazy or stupid to post a link, typical of the white.


----------



## Si modo

Salt Jones said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked for a link, racist fucktard.  I don't take anyone for their word, least of all racist fucktards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, don't be so upset.  You can find another boy for jungle love someplace else.  You can also find your own links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess that means you are too lazy or stupid to post a link, typical of the white.
Click to expand...

Racist fucktards go each way, too.


----------



## Ariux

Salt Jones said:


> I guess that means you are too lazy or stupid to post a link, typical of the white.



Don't be stupid.  "Typical of the white" is nonsense.  "White" is singular, but "typical" demands a plural.  "Typical of whites" would be a meaningful phrase.  E.g. Supporting blacks is typical of whites.  Supporting criminals is typical of blacks.


----------



## Crackerjack

Ariux said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that means you are too lazy or stupid to post a link, typical of the white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid.  "Typical of the white" is nonsense.  "White" is singular, but "typical" demands a plural.  "Typical of whites" would be a meaningful phrase.  E.g. Supporting blacks is typical of whites.  Supporting criminals is typical of blacks.
Click to expand...

Oooh, it's pretend black racist v. pretend white racist.  Irresistible farce versus immovable reject!


----------



## Si modo

Ariux said:


> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that means you are too lazy or stupid to post a link, typical of the white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid.  "Typical of the white" is nonsense.  "White" is singular, but "typical" demands a plural.  "Typical of whites" would be a meaningful phrase.  E.g. Supporting blacks is typical of whites.  Supporting criminals is typical of blacks.
Click to expand...

Stormfront is happy that you are posting here, now.  Their collective IQ increased dramatically.

Unfortunately for us, ours has recently and significantly decreased.


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Salt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that means you are too lazy or stupid to post a link, typical of the white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid.  "Typical of the white" is nonsense.  "White" is singular, but "typical" demands a plural.  "Typical of whites" would be a meaningful phrase.  E.g. Supporting blacks is typical of whites.  Supporting criminals is typical of blacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooh, it's pretend black racist v. pretend white racist.  Irresistible farce versus immovable reject!
Click to expand...

I think it's impact is about equivalent to that of two marshmallows colliding at 0.012 MPH, so the science says.


----------



## The Infidel

Zoom said:


> That *white guy* stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.



White ?


----------



## Amelia

The Infidel said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That *white guy* stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
Click to expand...




He is paler than I am.   

Well, I've gotten pretty pale up here in Wisconsin.  He's paler than I'd be if I lived where there was any sun.


----------



## The Gadfly

Zoom said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid...............did you not hear the 911 call MADE BY ZIMMERMAN?  The 911 operator TOLD HIM NOT TO FOLLOW THE KID.
> 
> Zimmerman already fucked up.
> 
> Too bad you can't see that you retarded sperm slurping colon jousting cock smoker.
> 
> 
> 
> ABS, calm down. A dispatcher's advice is just that, advice, not a legal order that anyone must obey. The real first question, again, is did Zimmerman chase Martin when he apparently ran, without Martin having committed a crime? Even that is NOT criminal, but it IS poor judgement. THe main question, though, is what happened next. When Martin struck Zimmerman (it's reasonably conclusive that he did so) did he have sufficient LAWFUL cause to do so? Absent some major fact we don't know, that's what this case turns on (if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin had lawful cause to strike Zimmerman.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That white guy stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
Click to expand...

That's your opinion. Unfortunately, the facts as we know them at this point won't support a conviction. Let's take it out of the context of this particular case. Suppose I'm walking through your neighborhood. YOu think I look suspicious, so you follow me. I decide to run, and you chase me. You catch up to me, and ask what I'm doing. I ask why you chased me.YOu have not produced a weapon, nor have you touched me. Am I allowed, legally, to hit you, even just once? Of course I'm not! You haven't attacked me; you have not committed any crime (merely chasing me is not one); all you have done is ask a question. I may not like it, BUT, if I hit you at that point, and you haven't threatened me, put your hands on me, or  produced a weapon of any kind (even if you have one concealed on you), then* I'm committing assault and battery*, If you hit me then, *I have no legal recourse, because I started the fight!*

Now, take it a step further. Let's say that when I hit you, I knocked you down. If I then jump on you, and continue to hit you, and I don't stop, you most certainly have the right to try to stop me. What if you can't; how far can you go to get me off of you?

The answer to that, depends on the law in that jurisdiction. Where I live, if you contributed to the situation in any way, Including chasing me, or even not running away from me when I became hostile, you can't pull a weapon (if you have one) and claim self-defense; that's the way the law reads. However, and it's a big HOWEVER, in FL, that is not what the law says.There, you don't have to avoid me, or run from me. So, if I continue to beat you the law says that If you reasonably believe I am not going to stop, and therefore I may seriously hurt you, you have the right to use whatever force is required to make me stop, including lethal force. Unless the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you attacked me in the first place, or that I stopped attacking you after I knocked you on your butt, you can shoot me, claim self-defense, and you'll walk.

Now, would I have done what Zimmerman did? No, when the kid ran, I'd have let him go; I haven't seen him commit any crime, after all. Chasing him is therefore poor judgement; not worth the risk of a confrontation. If a confrontation HAD occurred, I don't think I'd just shoot the kid, either, even if legally justified; the moment I got him off me, assuming I could, I'd have probably simply advised him I had a gun (and showed him, if he did not immediately back off when so informed). If he attempted to renew the attack at that point, THEN I would have shot him.( and THAT clearly IS self-defense).


----------



## InkedApple

The Infidel said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That *white guy* stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
Click to expand...


lmfao...my thoughts exactly as soon as I seen the "white mans" pic.


----------



## yidnar

InkedApple said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That *white guy* stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lmfao...my thoughts exactly as soon as I seen the "white mans" pic.
Click to expand...

looks like a **** to me .


----------



## InkedApple

yidnar said:


> InkedApple said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lmfao...my thoughts exactly as soon as I seen the "white mans" pic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> looks like a **** to me .
Click to expand...


Maybe. A case of stolen ID...with the name 'Zimmerman'. 
Or his daddy's white.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Amelia said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That *white guy* stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is paler than I am.
> 
> Well, I've gotten pretty pale up here in Wisconsin.  He's paler than I'd be if I lived where there was any sun.
Click to expand...


The primary question is, 'Why does it matter what race Zimmerman is?'

It matters only because racist leftwing ideologues are trying to make racism Zimmermans primary motive.

Zimmerman defending himself from a kid that was beating him while zimmerman was on the ground on his back.

Its a shame that the right to defend oneself is so despised by leftwing nutbags.


----------



## JimBowie1958

InkedApple said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> InkedApple said:
> 
> 
> 
> lmfao...my thoughts exactly as soon as I seen the "white mans" pic.
> 
> 
> 
> looks like a **** to me .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe. A case of stolen ID...with the name 'Zimmerman'.
> Or his daddy's white.
Click to expand...


Or the fact that most hispanics are white.

What is it about speaking Spanish that makes a person not white?


----------



## JimBowie1958

The Gadfly said:


> That's your opinion. Unfortunately, the facts as we know them at this point won't support a conviction. Let's take it out of the context of this particular case. Suppose I'm walking through your neighborhood. YOu think I look suspicious, so you follow me. I decide to run, and you chase me. You catch up to me, and ask what I'm doing. I ask why you chased me.YOu have not produced a weapon, nor have you touched me. Am I allowed, legally, to hit you, even just once? Of course I'm not! You haven't attacked me; you have not committed any crime (merely chasing me is not one); all you have done is ask a question. I may not like it, BUT, if I hit you at that point, and you haven't threatened me, put your hands on me, or  produced a weapon of any kind (even if you have one concealed on you), then* I'm committing assault and battery*, If you hit me then, *I have no legal recourse, because I started the fight!*
> 
> Now, take it a step further. Let's say that when I hit you, I knocked you down. If I then jump on you, and continue to hit you, and I don't stop, you most certainly have the right to try to stop me. What if you can't; how far can you go to get me off of you?
> 
> The answer to that, depends on the law in that jurisdiction. Where I live, if you contributed to the situation in any way, Including chasing me, or even not running away from me when I became hostile, you can't pull a weapon (if you have one) and claim self-defense; that's the way the law reads. However, and it's a big HOWEVER, in FL, that is not what the law says.There, you don't have to avoid me, or run from me. So, if I continue to beat you the law says that If you reasonably believe I am not going to stop, and therefore I may seriously hurt you, you have the right to use whatever force is required to make me stop, including lethal force. Unless the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you attacked me in the first place, or that I stopped attacking you after I knocked you on your butt, you can shoot me, claim self-defense, and you'll walk.
> 
> Now, would I have done what Zimmerman did? No, when the kid ran, I'd have let him go; I haven't seen him commit any crime, after all. Chasing him is therefore poor judgement; not worth the risk of a confrontation. If a confrontation HAD occurred, I don't think I'd just shoot the kid, either, even if legally justified; the moment I got him off me, assuming I could, I'd have probably simply advised him I had a gun (and showed him, if he did not immediately back off when so informed). If he attempted to renew the attack at that point, THEN I would have shot him.( and THAT clearly IS self-defense).



Great post.

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman chased Martin just prior to the assault? 

He claims he was not chasing him after the 911 dispatcher told him to not do that. He says he was simply out of his truck trying to get the street name off a sign when Martin hit him in the back of the head. What evidence is there that proves Zimmerman a liar?


----------



## Sarah G

JimBowie1958 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is paler than I am.
> 
> Well, I've gotten pretty pale up here in Wisconsin.  He's paler than I'd be if I lived where there was any sun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The primary question is, 'Why does it matter what race Zimmerman is?'
> 
> It matters only because racist leftwing ideologues are trying to make racism Zimmermans primary motive.
> 
> Zimmerman defending himself from a kid that was beating him while zimmerman was on the ground on his back.
> 
> Its a shame that the right to defend oneself is so despised by leftwing nutbags.
Click to expand...


Because he made a racial slur on the 911 audio and they are going for a hate crime charge.  

Stupid.

You don't have to be Caucasian to be racist.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Again, libtards, how badly does a person have to beaten by another person before they can use deadly force in self defense?

Why is it that bed burning is OK with feminazis when there is no direct threat at the time, but a person cant shoot someone who has you on your back on the ground and is beating and kicking you after having hit you in the back of the head?

You think only women have the right to use deadly force in self defense?

Or is that right relevant only when it helps with leftwing ideological agitprop bullshit, and dismissed when it gets in the way?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sarah G said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is paler than I am.
> 
> Well, I've gotten pretty pale up here in Wisconsin.  He's paler than I'd be if I lived where there was any sun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The primary question is, 'Why does it matter what race Zimmerman is?'
> 
> It matters only because racist leftwing ideologues are trying to make racism Zimmermans primary motive.
> 
> Zimmerman defending himself from a kid that was beating him while zimmerman was on the ground on his back.
> 
> Its a shame that the right to defend oneself is so despised by leftwing nutbags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because he made a racial slur on the 911 audio and they are going for a hate crime charge.
Click to expand...


Bullshit. That slur is only on 'engineered' audio, and to me it sounds like it was dubbed in. An audio diagnostic, Zimmerman saying, "fucking coons" - Democratic Underground

The original 911 release was censored and did not have these words. To me it sounds like somone dubbed the slur into the audio, but I am no expert. It is not evidence that I would accept were I on a jury.

But so what? Does using the word 'coon' prove that you are out to kill someone in cold blood? Is Clint Eastwood a racist for using thw word 'spook'?

Your whole argument that this questionable slur proves that Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin is assinine.




Sarah G said:


> Stupid.
> 
> You don't have to be Caucasian to be racist.



I never said you did, stupid ass.

You're preaching to the choir. Share your insight with the race baiting loons that want to lynch Zimmerman.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Peach said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the hispanic and the black are both Jews, then it comes down to just hispanic vs. black.  But, that's not an issue here.  Only one is a Jew, and that trumps hispanic vs. black.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.
Click to expand...


Only one man was struck from behind in the back of the head and had a man beating and kicking him while he was on the ground.

THAT trumps all other facts known.


----------



## Emma

yidnar said:


> the guy that shot the teen was hispanic !!! guess you libbs hate that !!



For all you people who have their panties in a wad because media reports (and this thread) called Zimmerman white: 

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, thanks for clarifying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only one man was struck from behind in the back of the head and had a man beating and kicking him while he was on the ground.
> 
> THAT trumps all other facts known.
Click to expand...



now Martin is "beating and kicking" zimmerman LOL


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's your opinion. Unfortunately, the facts as we know them at this point won't support a conviction. Let's take it out of the context of this particular case. Suppose I'm walking through your neighborhood. YOu think I look suspicious, so you follow me. I decide to run, and you chase me. You catch up to me, and ask what I'm doing. I ask why you chased me.YOu have not produced a weapon, nor have you touched me. Am I allowed, legally, to hit you, even just once? Of course I'm not! You haven't attacked me; you have not committed any crime (merely chasing me is not one); all you have done is ask a question. I may not like it, BUT, if I hit you at that point, and you haven't threatened me, put your hands on me, or  produced a weapon of any kind (even if you have one concealed on you), then* I'm committing assault and battery*, If you hit me then, *I have no legal recourse, because I started the fight!*
> 
> Now, take it a step further. Let's say that when I hit you, I knocked you down. If I then jump on you, and continue to hit you, and I don't stop, you most certainly have the right to try to stop me. What if you can't; how far can you go to get me off of you?
> 
> The answer to that, depends on the law in that jurisdiction. Where I live, if you contributed to the situation in any way, Including chasing me, or even not running away from me when I became hostile, you can't pull a weapon (if you have one) and claim self-defense; that's the way the law reads. However, and it's a big HOWEVER, in FL, that is not what the law says.There, you don't have to avoid me, or run from me. So, if I continue to beat you the law says that If you reasonably believe I am not going to stop, and therefore I may seriously hurt you, you have the right to use whatever force is required to make me stop, including lethal force. Unless the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you attacked me in the first place, or that I stopped attacking you after I knocked you on your butt, you can shoot me, claim self-defense, and you'll walk.
> 
> Now, would I have done what Zimmerman did? No, when the kid ran, I'd have let him go; I haven't seen him commit any crime, after all. Chasing him is therefore poor judgement; not worth the risk of a confrontation. If a confrontation HAD occurred, I don't think I'd just shoot the kid, either, even if legally justified; the moment I got him off me, assuming I could, I'd have probably simply advised him I had a gun (and showed him, if he did not immediately back off when so informed). If he attempted to renew the attack at that point, THEN I would have shot him.( and THAT clearly IS self-defense).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> Where is the evidence that Zimmerman chased Martin just prior to the assault?
> 
> He claims he was not chasing him after the 911 dispatcher told him to not do that. He says he was simply out of his truck trying to get the street name off a sign when Martin hit him in the back of the head. What evidence is there that proves Zimmerman a liar?
Click to expand...

Listen again. You can hear the wind and zimmerman breathing hard --- which continues for a time _after_ the dispatcher told him not to follow. At no point does he tell the dispatcher he's getting out to check for the sign. At no point does he tell the dispatcher he's been attacked. IF he was attacked at his vehicle, then he followed Martin to the place where he shot Martin --- which was in a grassy courtyard between two long rows of apartments/townhomes, NOT in the street.


----------



## paperview

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only ONE is dead, THAT trumps all other facts known.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only one man was struck from behind in the back of the head and had a man beating and kicking him while he was on the ground.
> 
> THAT trumps all other facts known.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> now Martin is "beating and kicking" zimmerman LOL
Click to expand...

The jumps and conclusion-hurdles some people are making about this case are tragic.


----------



## California Girl

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only one man was struck from behind in the back of the head and had a man beating and kicking him while he was on the ground.
> 
> THAT trumps all other facts known.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now Martin is "beating and kicking" zimmerman LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The jumps and conclusion-hurdles some people are making about this case are tragic.
Click to expand...


From both 'sides'. To me, there is only one side... that of justice. I await LEO verified information before forming a firm opinion. That's a logical  approach.


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> the guy that shot the teen was hispanic !!! guess you libbs hate that !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For all you people who have their panties in a wad because media reports (and this thread) called Zimmerman white:
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Click to expand...

So the police thought Zimmerman was white. Interesting.

More interesting is that Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, didn't one of the "witnesses" claim he saw someone in a white shirt beating someone?

Also, Martin was face down with his hands under his body. Sounds kind of execution style.


----------



## paperview

California Girl said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now Martin is "beating and kicking" zimmerman LOL
> 
> 
> 
> The jumps and conclusion-hurdles some people are making about this case are tragic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From both 'sides'. To me, there is only one side... that of justice. I await LEO verified information before forming a firm opinion. That's a logical  approach.
Click to expand...

There's not much to disagree with there.  

The Sanford PD has made a terrible mess of things, and they have a  history of fuck ups and cover ups, so I look forward to law enforcement oversight of the way they handled the evidence /witness statements.


----------



## paperview

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> the guy that shot the teen was hispanic !!! guess you libbs hate that !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For all you people who have their panties in a wad because media reports (and this thread) called Zimmerman white:
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the police thought Zimmerman was white. Interesting.
> 
> More interesting is that Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, didn't one of the "witnesses" claim he saw someone in a white shirt beating someone?
> 
> Also, Martin was face down with his hands under his body. Sounds kind of execution style.
Click to expand...

It was dark, and the witness said a white *t-shirt* - not a hoodie.

No one was wearing a white t-shirt...


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's your opinion. Unfortunately, the facts as we know them at this point won't support a conviction. Let's take it out of the context of this particular case. Suppose I'm walking through your neighborhood. YOu think I look suspicious, so you follow me. I decide to run, and you chase me. You catch up to me, and ask what I'm doing. I ask why you chased me.YOu have not produced a weapon, nor have you touched me. Am I allowed, legally, to hit you, even just once? Of course I'm not! You haven't attacked me; you have not committed any crime (merely chasing me is not one); all you have done is ask a question. I may not like it, BUT, if I hit you at that point, and you haven't threatened me, put your hands on me, or  produced a weapon of any kind (even if you have one concealed on you), then* I'm committing assault and battery*, If you hit me then, *I have no legal recourse, because I started the fight!*
> 
> Now, take it a step further. Let's say that when I hit you, I knocked you down. If I then jump on you, and continue to hit you, and I don't stop, you most certainly have the right to try to stop me. What if you can't; how far can you go to get me off of you?
> 
> The answer to that, depends on the law in that jurisdiction. Where I live, if you contributed to the situation in any way, Including chasing me, or even not running away from me when I became hostile, you can't pull a weapon (if you have one) and claim self-defense; that's the way the law reads. However, and it's a big HOWEVER, in FL, that is not what the law says.There, you don't have to avoid me, or run from me. So, if I continue to beat you the law says that If you reasonably believe I am not going to stop, and therefore I may seriously hurt you, you have the right to use whatever force is required to make me stop, including lethal force. Unless the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you attacked me in the first place, or that I stopped attacking you after I knocked you on your butt, you can shoot me, claim self-defense, and you'll walk.
> 
> Now, would I have done what Zimmerman did? No, when the kid ran, I'd have let him go; I haven't seen him commit any crime, after all. Chasing him is therefore poor judgement; not worth the risk of a confrontation. If a confrontation HAD occurred, I don't think I'd just shoot the kid, either, even if legally justified; the moment I got him off me, assuming I could, I'd have probably simply advised him I had a gun (and showed him, if he did not immediately back off when so informed). If he attempted to renew the attack at that point, THEN I would have shot him.( and THAT clearly IS self-defense).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> Where is the evidence that Zimmerman chased Martin just prior to the assault?
> 
> He claims he was not chasing him after the 911 dispatcher told him to not do that. He says he was simply out of his truck trying to get the street name off a sign when Martin hit him in the back of the head. What evidence is there that proves Zimmerman a liar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Listen again. You can hear the wind and zimmerman breathing hard --- which continues for a time _after_ the dispatcher told him not to follow. At no point does he tell the dispatcher he's getting out to check for the sign. At no point does he tell the dispatcher he's been attacked. *IF he was attacked at his vehicle, then he followed Martin to the place where he shot Martin --- which was in a grassy courtyard between two long rows of apartments/townhomes, NOT in the street.*
Click to expand...

Excellent point.


----------



## High_Gravity

Peach said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering why (1) Zimmerman is STILL walking around with a concealed carry liscence, and (2) why is this fucker still free?
> 
> Hey...........even when police officers shoot somone in the line of duty, they are put on paid leave until the investigation is complete.
> 
> Shouln't Zimmerman AT THE VERY LEAST have to surrender his permit?  He's proven that he's capable of shooting unarmed people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
Click to expand...


I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.


----------



## Si modo

High_Gravity said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering why (1) Zimmerman is STILL walking around with a concealed carry liscence, and (2) why is this fucker still free?
> 
> Hey...........even when police officers shoot somone in the line of duty, they are put on paid leave until the investigation is complete.
> 
> Shouln't Zimmerman AT THE VERY LEAST have to surrender his permit?  He's proven that he's capable of shooting unarmed people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
Click to expand...

If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.


----------



## The Infidel

paperview said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> The jumps and conclusion-hurdles some people are making about this case are tragic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From both 'sides'. To me, there is only one side... that of justice. I await LEO verified information before forming a firm opinion. That's a logical  approach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's not much to disagree with there.
> 
> The Sanford PD has made a terrible mess of things, and they have a  history of fuck ups and cover ups, so I look forward to law enforcement oversight of the way they handled the evidence /witness statements.
Click to expand...


Setting the table for a conspiracy ?


----------



## The Infidel

Si modo said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
Click to expand...


Everybody is so ready to convict this guy of a race crime.... its pissing me off!


----------



## High_Gravity

The Infidel said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everybody is so ready to convict this guy of a race crime.... its pissing me off!
Click to expand...


I don't give a damn about the mans race.


----------



## High_Gravity

Si modo said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
Click to expand...


But they still had the right to test the boys dead body? why?


----------



## The Infidel

High_Gravity said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is so ready to convict this guy of a race crime.... its pissing me off!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn about the mans race.
Click to expand...


Didnt mean to infer that you did... Im just seeing an awful lot of it in this thread.

Sorry Bro.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Infidel said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is so ready to convict this guy of a race crime.... its pissing me off!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn about the mans race.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didnt mean to infer that you did... Im just seeing an awful lot of it in this thread.
> 
> Sorry Bro.
Click to expand...


Its ok man, this subject has alot of people hot. To be honest it does for me too cause this kid looks alot like a close family member of mine.


----------



## Emma

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> the guy that shot the teen was hispanic !!! guess you libbs hate that !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For all you people who have their panties in a wad because media reports (and this thread) called Zimmerman white:
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the police thought Zimmerman was white. Interesting.
> 
> More interesting is that Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, didn't one of the "witnesses" claim he saw someone in a white shirt beating someone?
> 
> Also, Martin was face down with his hands under his body. Sounds kind of execution style.
Click to expand...


The address zimmerman gives dispatcher in his call is 1111 Retreat View Circle ... yet he and Martin are found in the grass _between the buildings_ at 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle. 

"I responded to 2821 Retreat View Circle and exited my marked Sandford police vehicle and began to canvas the area. _As I walked in between the buildings_ I observed a _white_ male, wearing a red jacket and blue jeans. I also observed a black male, wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, laying face down in the grass." 

(note that officer Ricardo Ayala also refers to zimmerman as a 'white male')

Georgie called from 1111 Retreat View Circle ... and ended up in the grassy courtyard behind 2821 Retreat View Circle. But nah --- he didn't follow Martin. 

lol

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


----------



## California Girl

The Infidel said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> From both 'sides'. To me, there is only one side... that of justice. I await LEO verified information before forming a firm opinion. That's a logical  approach.
> 
> 
> 
> There's not much to disagree with there.
> 
> The Sanford PD has made a terrible mess of things, and they have a  history of fuck ups and cover ups, so I look forward to law enforcement oversight of the way they handled the evidence /witness statements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Setting the table for a conspiracy ?
Click to expand...


I don't see any building of conspiracies. What I do see is a whole bunch of people forming opinions based on rumor, speculation and unsubstantiated 'facts'. That is never a good way to reach a solid conclusion. I remain open minded about the entire case... until there is hard evidence, from LEOs, not from media, or witnesses - who can be somewhat unreliable, or from anyone with an agenda. 

So far, what I do see is a very troubling lack of action from the local police.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?


----------



## Emma

That report I linked to is labeled "partial" ... has anyone seen the full report (I'm guessing that's what was uncovered in the interview with zimmerman and witnesses?)

Florida is supposed to be a 'sunshine law' state ... but I'm having a heck of a time finding those reports.


----------



## Emma

but thanks to the police report that gives actual addresses, I was able to see proof that zimmerman did follow Martin after his call, and I found the name of the complex. Now trying to find a more detailed map of the complex, too.


----------



## Emma

California Girl said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's not much to disagree with there.
> 
> The Sanford PD has made a terrible mess of things, and they have a  history of fuck ups and cover ups, so I look forward to law enforcement oversight of the way they handled the evidence /witness statements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Setting the table for a conspiracy ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see any building of conspiracies. What I do see is a whole bunch of people forming opinions based on rumor, speculation and unsubstantiated 'facts'. That is never a good way to reach a solid conclusion. I remain open minded about the entire case... until there is hard evidence, from LEOs, not from media, or witnesses - who can be somewhat unreliable, or from anyone with an agenda.
> 
> So far, what I do see is a very troubling lack of action from the local police.
Click to expand...


I'm glad that FDLE is investigating. It sure seems like SPD dropped the ball here.


----------



## Liability

Emma said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all you people who have their panties in a wad because media reports (and this thread) called Zimmerman white:
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> So the police thought Zimmerman was white. Interesting.
> 
> More interesting is that Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, didn't one of the "witnesses" claim he saw someone in a white shirt beating someone?
> 
> Also, Martin was face down with his hands under his body. Sounds kind of execution style.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The address zimmerman gives dispatcher in his call is 1111 Retreat View Circle ... yet he and Martin are found in the grass _between the buildings_ at 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle.
> 
> "I responded to 2821 Retreat View Circle and exited my marked Sandford police vehicle and began to canvas the area. _As I walked in between the buildings_ I observed a _white_ male, wearing a red jacket and blue jeans. I also observed a black male, wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, laying face down in the grass."
> 
> (note that officer Ricardo Ayala also refers to zimmerman as a 'white male')
> 
> Georgie called from 1111 Retreat View Circle ... and ended up in the grassy courtyard behind 2821 Retreat View Circle. But nah --- he didn't follow Martin.
> 
> lol
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Click to expand...


2821 Retreat View Circle - Google Maps

We aren't talking about a very large distance.


----------



## Ravi

It would be good to know where Zimmerman's vehicle was when the cops arrived. In the street where he claimed he stopped or parked somewhere.


----------



## Liability

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
Click to expand...


No.  That would not constitute probable cause necessarily.

And I'm not arguing that the man is innocent.  I have no idea what the circumstances actually were.

I'm just suggesting that acknowledging that he fired the shot is not the same thing as probable cause necessarily.


----------



## The Infidel

High_Gravity said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn about the mans race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt mean to infer that you did... Im just seeing an awful lot of it in this thread.
> 
> Sorry Bro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its ok man, this subject has alot of people hot. To be honest it does for me too cause this kid looks alot like a close family member of mine.
Click to expand...


I just hope both guys get a fair trial... it is a painful case all the way around.

I do think Zimmerman needs to really be looked at very closely though. He sounds like a real 'busy body'.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Infidel said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt mean to infer that you did... Im just seeing an awful lot of it in this thread.
> 
> Sorry Bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its ok man, this subject has alot of people hot. To be honest it does for me too cause this kid looks alot like a close family member of mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just hope both guys get a fair trial... it is a painful case all the way around.
> 
> I do think Zimmerman needs to really be looked at very closely though. He sounds like a real 'busy body'.
Click to expand...


I agree.


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all you people who have their panties in a wad because media reports (and this thread) called Zimmerman white:
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> So the police thought Zimmerman was white. Interesting.
> 
> More interesting is that Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, didn't one of the "witnesses" claim he saw someone in a white shirt beating someone?
> 
> Also, Martin was face down with his hands under his body. Sounds kind of execution style.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The address zimmerman gives dispatcher in his call is 1111 Retreat View Circle ... yet he and Martin are found in the grass _between the buildings_ at 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle.
> 
> "I responded to 2821 Retreat View Circle and exited my marked Sandford police vehicle and began to canvas the area. _As I walked in between the buildings_ I observed a _white_ male, wearing a red jacket and blue jeans. I also observed a black male, wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, laying face down in the grass."
> 
> (note that officer Ricardo Ayala also refers to zimmerman as a 'white male')
> 
> Georgie called from 1111 Retreat View Circle ... and ended up in the grassy courtyard behind 2821 Retreat View Circle. But nah --- he didn't follow Martin.
> 
> lol
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Click to expand...


According to google maps, a 3 minute walk.


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  That would not constitute probable cause necessarily.
> 
> And I'm not arguing that the man is innocent.  I have no idea what the circumstances actually were.
> 
> I'm just suggesting that acknowledging that he fired the shot is not the same thing as probable cause necessarily.
Click to expand...


So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?


----------



## The Infidel

Ravi said:


> It would be good to know where Zimmerman's vehicle was when the cops arrived. In the street where he claimed he stopped or parked somewhere.



That would definately confirm whether he followed the guy.


----------



## Si modo

High_Gravity said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But they still had the right to test the boys dead body? why?
Click to expand...

In fatal shootings, I believe autopsies are a given.  They have to be done.  And, tox analysis is standard in an autopsy.


----------



## Ravi

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  That would not constitute probable cause necessarily.
> 
> And I'm not arguing that the man is innocent.  I have no idea what the circumstances actually were.
> 
> I'm just suggesting that acknowledging that he fired the shot is not the same thing as probable cause necessarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?
Click to expand...


I would guess they tested the kid because Zimmerman said he was acting strangely. But when the results came back negative, they should have reopened the investigation.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
Click to expand...

Personally, I believe that is probable cause that he may have done something wrong worthy of investigation, but it's not probable cause that he was under the influence.


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  That would not constitute probable cause necessarily.
> 
> And I'm not arguing that the man is innocent.  I have no idea what the circumstances actually were.
> 
> I'm just suggesting that acknowledging that he fired the shot is not the same thing as probable cause necessarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?
Click to expand...


Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.

In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization.  If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court.  (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)

Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant.


----------



## High_Gravity

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Personally, I believe that is probable cause that he may have done something wrong worthy of investigation, but it's not probable cause that he was under the influence.
Click to expand...


I thought it was important to determine if someone was under the influence if they shot somebody? or am I completely off base here?


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  That would not constitute probable cause necessarily.
> 
> And I'm not arguing that the man is innocent.  I have no idea what the circumstances actually were.
> 
> I'm just suggesting that acknowledging that he fired the shot is not the same thing as probable cause necessarily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.
> 
> In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization.  If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court.  (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)
> 
> *Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant*.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.


----------



## Si modo

High_Gravity said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I believe that is probable cause that he may have done something wrong worthy of investigation, but it's not probable cause that he was under the influence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought it was important to determine if someone was under the influence if they shot somebody? or am I completely off base here?
Click to expand...

I would think it should be standard, but I'm pretty sure there has to be some cause as it pertains to being under the influence - erratic behavior, slurring words, dosing off, lack of eye focus, etc.  The probable cause has to pertain to the test.

Now, I do know that if one causes an accident in the work place, the test for substances is standard, but that is part of the work agreement.

And, to clarify to everyone again, if it were up to ME, I would lock this guy up.  But, it's not up to me.  It's up to a trial court while taking into consideration the local laws and taking into consideration evidence that meets a legal standard.

I want this guy to get a fair trial most of all.  I have never liked the villager-with-torch attitude and I won't participate in that (not saying you are).  I want the fair trial.  Justice is often slow and not always right, but I will fight for the best conditions for justice.


----------



## Dante

*SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING for posting while needing sobriety*
*
This could be you...*


High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but _that makes no sense to me_, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
Click to expand...


*..don't drink while posting.*


----------



## Emma

Liability said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the police thought Zimmerman was white. Interesting.
> 
> More interesting is that Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, didn't one of the "witnesses" claim he saw someone in a white shirt beating someone?
> 
> Also, Martin was face down with his hands under his body. Sounds kind of execution style.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The address zimmerman gives dispatcher in his call is 1111 Retreat View Circle ... yet he and Martin are found in the grass _between the buildings_ at 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle.
> 
> "I responded to 2821 Retreat View Circle and exited my marked Sandford police vehicle and began to canvas the area. _As I walked in between the buildings_ I observed a _white_ male, wearing a red jacket and blue jeans. I also observed a black male, wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt, laying face down in the grass."
> 
> (note that officer Ricardo Ayala also refers to zimmerman as a 'white male')
> 
> Georgie called from 1111 Retreat View Circle ... and ended up in the grassy courtyard behind 2821 Retreat View Circle. But nah --- he didn't follow Martin.
> 
> lol
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 2821 Retreat View Circle - Google Maps
> 
> We aren't talking about a very large distance.
Click to expand...

According to jimwhathisname, Zimmerman's claim was that he was "attacked from behind" as he entered his vehicle and he did not follow Martin, and that he'd merely exited his vehicle to see the street sign (although zimmerman states in his call that he's following Martin). His call was from 1111 Retreat View Circle; the two were found _behind_ 2821 ... in a grassy courtyard between buildings, not on the street. No matter how far 1111 is from 2821, it's clear that zimmerman DID follow Martin to that area where he was shot.


----------



## Emma

well hell ... I tried to post the directions from point A (1111) to points B and C (2821 and also 1231 twin trees), but it only showed the one address. From either, it's about 2/10 of a mile, and it's not a straight shot.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?


----------



## Dante

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?


 

*So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. * 

it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.

The reports say Zimmerman was attacked and had a bad bruise on his face from being hit in the face with a soda can. A witness said the young man was on top of him beating the older man. That tells you the kid wasn't innocent in this either and there was a confrontation.


The chief listened to what Zimmerman said, there are reports that Zimmerman had wounds on him, and there is an eyewitness who saw him on the ground before he shot the kid.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/


According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"

*Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

---

According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.* 

so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.  

where is the crime?


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?



The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male. 

This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin. 

Ooopsy.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.
> 
> This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.
> 
> Ooopsy.
Click to expand...

So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?


----------



## Dante

USMB legal experts are failing to perform well.


----------



## High_Gravity

Dante said:


> *SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING for posting while needing sobriety*
> *
> This could be you...*
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but _that makes no sense to me_, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *..don't drink while posting.*
Click to expand...


Why the hell not?


----------



## High_Gravity

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.
> 
> This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.
> 
> Ooopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?
Click to expand...


I think alot of people assumed he was white because of his last name, if his name was Juan Gonzalez nobody would have assumed that.


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So how come its not ok to drug test the shooter, but its ok to test the dead body?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.
> 
> In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization.  If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court.  (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)
> 
> *Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
Click to expand...


No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.

Simple hypothetical.  Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall.  

Did you commit a crime?

Nope.

Should you be arrested?

Nope.

The point is:  not only is self defense or defense of another in some situations a legal defense to a criminal charge, sometimes it even suffices to avoid any arrest in the first place.


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.
> 
> In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization.  If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court.  (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)
> 
> *Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.
> 
> Simple hypothetical.  Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall.
> 
> Did you commit a crime?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Should you be arrested?
> 
> Nope.
Click to expand...


Thats not the same thing though, Zimmerman was not saving anyone from terrorists.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.
> 
> This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.
> 
> Ooopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?
Click to expand...


People were complaining that the media referred to zimmerman as "white" ... they simply got that from the police reports.


----------



## Dante

High_Gravity said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING for posting while needing sobriety*
> *
> This could be you...*
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but _that makes no sense to me_, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *..don't drink while posting.*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the hell not?
Click to expand...


mark as evidence #17


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police report of the incident repeatedly refers to him as a white male. Even (the apparently Hispanic) officer Ricardo Ayala refers to zimmerman as a white male.
> 
> This "zimmerman is a hispanic" claim stems from his father's letter to the media. Ya know. The same one where he claims his son didn't follow Martin. The same one that was sent / printed BEFORE the police released the 911 tapes --- where Georgie admitted he was following Martin.
> 
> Ooopsy.
> 
> 
> 
> So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People were complaining that the media referred to zimmerman as "white" ... they simply got that from the police reports.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman is not white is he?


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People were complaining that the media referred to zimmerman as "white" ... they simply got that from the police reports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is not white is he?
Click to expand...


Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> People were complaining that the media referred to zimmerman as "white" ... they simply got that from the police reports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is not white is he?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.
Click to expand...

Race identification is not a factor in pigmentation of skin tone. obama is black or is he white?


----------



## Dante

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So zimmermans father would not know what race his son was but the police would?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People were complaining that the media referred to zimmerman as "white" ... they simply got that from the police reports.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is not white is he?
Click to expand...


more proof no one around here knows anything about the true facts in this case.


----------



## High_Gravity

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is not white is he?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Race identification is not a factor in pigmentation of skin tone. obama is black or is he white?
Click to expand...


Obama is half black half white, and Zimmerman is half white half Hispanic, not rocket science.


----------



## Katzndogz

If a hispanic is a perpetrator they are considered white.  If they are a victim, they are hispanic.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

High_Gravity said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Race identification is not a factor in pigmentation of skin tone. obama is black or is he white?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obama is half black half white, and Zimmerman is half white half Hispanic, not rocket science.
Click to expand...


But obama identifies himself as black isn't that correct?


----------



## Ravi

Katzndogz said:


> If a hispanic is a perpetrator they are considered white.  If they are a victim, they are hispanic.


The cops thought he was white. Maybe that is why they didn't do a thorough investigation.


----------



## Ravi

This was from last night:


> Mary Cutcher describes what she witnessed that night.
> 
> "And at the time that we heard the whining and then the gunshot, we did not hear any wrestling, no punching, no fighting, nothing to make it sound like there was a fight," Cutcher said to Anderson Cooper.
> 
> Cutcher told Cooper that she does not believe the Zimmerman acted in self-defense.
> 
> "Originally, I didn't believe it was self-defense because of what we saw when we walked out on the porch. If it was self-defense, why was he on Trayvon's back?"
> 
> Another caller, Selma Mora Lamilla, who was also on Anderson Cooper 360, said she saw Zimmerman straddling Martin's body after the shooting.



Witness to FL teen shooting: not self-defense - WTOL.com: News, Weather and Sport for Toledo, Ohio

It doesn't jibe with Zimmerman's story that the kid was found face down with his hands under his body.


----------



## Huey

well I'll tell you what,this **** will get his,in spades.


----------



## Si modo

Huey said:


> well I'll tell you what,this **** will get his,in spades.


I would bet that you think that's a clever comment.  It's funny what perspective such low IQs give to wit.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Drug tests for persons being autopsied (as in a case where the death was by "other than natural causes") is the norm.
> 
> In order to test a living breathing human being for drug use (or alcohol use) law enforcement needs either consent or authorization.  If the guy (Zimmerman) did not give consent, then the police / prosecutors would need to get permission from a court.  (In DWI cases, the "consent" may be provided by law as a condition of the license; so that scenario is very different than the scenario involving a possible suspect in what may have been a criminal incident.)
> 
> *Merely knowing that Zimmerman did the shooting is not necessarily probable cause sufficient either for an arrest or a search warrant*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.
> 
> Simple hypothetical.  *Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall. *
> 
> Did you commit a crime?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Should you be arrested?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> The point is:  not only is self defense or defense of another in some situations a legal defense to a criminal charge, sometimes it even suffices to avoid any arrest in the first place.
Click to expand...


Yeup... so by that account if I was standing outside in the Sanford neighborhood watching the neighborhood watch guy deliberately killing unarmed children and I had quick access to a gun... I could have assumed he was going to kill another unarmed child, aimed the gun, and splattered his filthy brains on a nearby wall?


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.
> 
> Simple hypothetical.  *Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall. *
> 
> Did you commit a crime?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Should you be arrested?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> The point is:  not only is self defense or defense of another in some situations a legal defense to a criminal charge, sometimes it even suffices to avoid any arrest in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeup... so by that account if I was standing outside in the Sanford neighborhood watching the neighborhood watch guy deliberately killing unarmed children and I had quick access to a gun... I could have assumed he was going to kill another unarmed child, aimed the gun, and splattered his filthy brains on a nearby wall?
Click to expand...


The sad thing is if you were there and did that, you would more than likely be in jail for murder right now as we speak.


----------



## High_Gravity

Huey said:


> well I'll tell you what,this **** will get his,in spades.



That was a fucking moronic comment.


----------



## High_Gravity

bigrebnc1775 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Race identification is not a factor in pigmentation of skin tone. obama is black or is he white?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama is half black half white, and Zimmerman is half white half Hispanic, not rocket science.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But obama identifies himself as black isn't that correct?
Click to expand...


Yes, so? if he tried to say he was white how would that fly?


----------



## uptownlivin90

Dante said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. *
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.
> 
> The reports say Zimmerman was attacked and had a bad bruise on his face from being hit in the face with a soda can. A witness said the young man was on top of him beating the older man. That tells you the kid wasn't innocent in this either and there was a confrontation.
> 
> 
> The chief listened to what Zimmerman said, there are reports that Zimmerman had wounds on him, and there is an eyewitness who saw him on the ground before he shot the kid.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/
> 
> 
> According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.
> 
> Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"
> 
> *Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> ---
> 
> According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.*
> 
> so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.
> 
> where is the crime?
Click to expand...




> So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. [/B]
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.



Good job loser.

You make it seem as if Trayvon just simply walked up to Zimmerman and started cussing him out. Good use of the word "verbal confrontation". He asked the random grown male why he was following him. 

I don't see how that's wrong or warranting his own demise in anyway.

I think it's a pretty fair question. If there's a random guy chasing you through a neighborhood it's a question that maybe might be going through your head. "Hmmm... why is this man chasing me?"

Then again black males don't ask questions we "start verbal confrontations". We're not allowed to asked questions. It's Zimmermans right to chase us through random neighborhoods and harass us because we "look suspicious". Self-defense was thrown out the window when this kid was born with dark skin.

What WE KNOW is that Zimmerman was in a car following this kid at one point, while on the phone. The kid spotted him and by Zimmerman's own admission ran away. Zimmerman stated "these guys always get away" on the phone with the dispatcher. Told the dispatcher that the kid was running. Zimmerman followed him. According to the girls account Trayvon Martin asked Zimmerman "why are you following me?" then she heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing here?" (as if that was any of his business, but I guess black males need reasons to walk down the street these days). So then you draw the conclusion that Trayvon starts a physical altercation.

How so? It just couldn't be the one who chased Trayvon, followed him down the street, seemed to be convinced that he was on drugs, up to no good, and probably a thief who start the confrontation hmm? 

It couldn't have been the one who was complaining to the dispatcher that these guys "always get a way"?

Maybe in Zimmermans mind he was going to make sure this one didn't get a way. What he didn't realize was Trayvon may not have been armed but he wasn't a punk and he's not going to let some random grown man grab him or confine him. As he shouldn't. He has just as much of a right to defend himself as Zimmerman and Zimmerman HAD NO RIGHT TO HARASS HIM. Sorry he didn't. Trayvon was not on his property, he does not have a badge, he was not in any immediate danger. Trayvon very well could have been acting out of fear. Which makes sense because he ran in the first place. I would have ran if I'm in a neighborhood in Florida that I'm not familiar with by myself and some guy in a car on the phone is following me. That's a HUGE red flag. I come from a neighborhood were we were told run first ask questions later. Then for the man to get out of the car and chase him makes it worse.


----------



## uptownlivin90

High_Gravity said:


> Huey said:
> 
> 
> 
> well I'll tell you what,this **** will get his,in spades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a fucking moronic comment.
Click to expand...


He should sell that statement to Sharpton.

I'm sure he could always use new fresh ideas to create controversy and get on TV.


----------



## uptownlivin90

High_Gravity said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.
> 
> Simple hypothetical.  *Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall. *
> 
> Did you commit a crime?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Should you be arrested?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> The point is:  not only is self defense or defense of another in some situations a legal defense to a criminal charge, sometimes it even suffices to avoid any arrest in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeup... so by that account if I was standing outside in the Sanford neighborhood watching the neighborhood watch guy deliberately killing unarmed children and I had quick access to a gun... I could have assumed he was going to kill another unarmed child, aimed the gun, and splattered his filthy brains on a nearby wall?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sad thing is if you were there and did that, you would more than likely be in jail for murder right now as we speak.
Click to expand...


Not if Liability was the sheriff in town.


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huey said:
> 
> 
> 
> well I'll tell you what,this **** will get his,in spades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a fucking moronic comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He should sell that statement to Sharpton.
> 
> I'm sure he could always use new fresh ideas to create controversy and get on TV.
Click to expand...


I can't stand racists, no matter what side of the tracks they are from.


----------



## Dante

uptownlivin90 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. *
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.
> 
> The reports say Zimmerman was attacked and had a bad bruise on his face from being hit in the face with a soda can. A witness said the young man was on top of him beating the older man. That tells you the kid wasn't innocent in this either and there was a confrontation.
> 
> 
> The chief listened to what Zimmerman said, there are reports that Zimmerman had wounds on him, and there is an eyewitness who saw him on the ground before he shot the kid.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/
> 
> 
> According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.
> 
> Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"
> 
> *Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> ---
> 
> According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.*
> 
> so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.
> 
> where is the crime?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. [/B]
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good job loser.
> 
> You make it seem as if Trayvon just simply walked up to Zimmerman and started cussing him out. Good use of the word "verbal confrontation". He asked the random grown male why he was following him.
> 
> I don't see how that's wrong or warranting his own demise in anyway.
> 
> I think it's a pretty fair question. If there's a random guy chasing you through a neighborhood it's a question that maybe might be going through your head. "Hmmm... why is this man chasing me?"
> 
> Then again black males don't ask questions we "start verbal confrontations". We're not allowed to asked questions. It's Zimmermans right to chase us through random neighborhoods and harass us because we "look suspicious". Self-defense was thrown out the window when this kid was born with dark skin.
> 
> What WE KNOW is that Zimmerman was in a car following this kid at one point, while on the phone. The kid spotted him and by Zimmerman's own admission ran away. Zimmerman stated "these guys always get away" on the phone with the dispatcher. Told the dispatcher that the kid was running. Zimmerman followed him. According to the girls account Trayvon Martin asked Zimmerman "why are you following me?" then she heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing here?" (as if that was any of his business, but I guess black males need reasons to walk down the street these days). So then you draw the conclusion that Trayvon starts a physical altercation.
> 
> How so? It just couldn't be the one who chased Trayvon, followed him down the street, seemed to be convinced that he was on drugs, up to no good, and probably a thief who start the confrontation hmm?
> 
> It couldn't have been the one who was complaining to the dispatcher that these guys "always get a way"?
> 
> Maybe in Zimmermans mind he was going to make sure this one didn't get a way. What he didn't realize was Trayvon may not have been armed but he wasn't a punk and he's not going to let some random grown man grab him or confine him. As he shouldn't. He has just as much of a right to defend himself as Zimmerman and Zimmerman HAD NO RIGHT TO HARASS HIM. Sorry he didn't. Trayvon was not on his property, he does not have a badge, he was not in any immediate danger. Trayvon very well could have been acting out of fear. Which makes sense because he ran in the first place. I would have ran if I'm in a neighborhood in Florida that I'm not familiar with by myself and some guy in a car on the phone is following me. That's a HUGE red flag. I come from a neighborhood were we were told run first ask questions later. Then for the man to get out of the car and chase him makes it worse.
> __________________
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was Hispanic, does that kill your beat up whitie bash thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. *
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.
> 
> The reports say Zimmerman was attacked and had a bad bruise on his face from being hit in the face with a soda can. A witness said the young man was on top of him beating the older man. That tells you the kid wasn't innocent in this either and there was a confrontation.
> 
> 
> The chief listened to what Zimmerman said, there are reports that Zimmerman had wounds on him, and there is an eyewitness who saw him on the ground before he shot the kid.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/
> 
> 
> According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.
> 
> Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"
> 
> *Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> ---
> 
> According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.*
> 
> so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.
> 
> where is the crime?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. [/B]
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good job loser.
> 
> You make it seem as if Trayvon just simply walked up to Zimmerman and started cussing him out. Good use of the word "verbal confrontation". He asked the random grown male why he was following him.
> 
> I don't see how that's wrong or warranting his own demise in anyway.
> 
> I think it's a pretty fair question. If there's a random guy chasing you through a neighborhood it's a question that maybe might be going through your head. "Hmmm... why is this man chasing me?"
> 
> Then again black males don't ask questions we "start verbal confrontations". We're not allowed to asked questions. It's Zimmermans right to chase us through random neighborhoods and harass us because we "look suspicious". Self-defense was thrown out the window when this kid was born with dark skin.
> 
> What WE KNOW is that Zimmerman was in a car following this kid at one point, while on the phone. The kid spotted him and by Zimmerman's own admission ran away. Zimmerman stated "these guys always get away" on the phone with the dispatcher. Told the dispatcher that the kid was running. Zimmerman followed him. According to the girls account Trayvon Martin asked Zimmerman "why are you following me?" then she heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing here?" (as if that was any of his business, but I guess black males need reasons to walk down the street these days). So then you draw the conclusion that Trayvon starts a physical altercation.
> 
> How so? It just couldn't be the one who chased Trayvon, followed him down the street, seemed to be convinced that he was on drugs, up to no good, and probably a thief who start the confrontation hmm?
> 
> It couldn't have been the one who was complaining to the dispatcher that these guys "always get a way"?
> 
> Maybe in Zimmermans mind he was going to make sure this one didn't get a way. What he didn't realize was Trayvon may not have been armed but he wasn't a punk and he's not going to let some random grown man grab him or confine him. As he shouldn't. He has just as much of a right to defend himself as Zimmerman and Zimmerman HAD NO RIGHT TO HARASS HIM. Sorry he didn't. Trayvon was not on his property, he does not have a badge, he was not in any immediate danger. Trayvon very well could have been acting out of fear. Which makes sense because he ran in the first place. I would have ran if I'm in a neighborhood in Florida that I'm not familiar with by myself and some guy in a car on the phone is following me. That's a HUGE red flag. I come from a neighborhood were we were told run first ask questions later. Then for the man to get out of the car and chase him makes it worse.
Click to expand...


Your wasting your time bro, all he's going to say if Trayvon should not have been there and Zimmerman was well within his rights to shoot him.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Dante said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. *
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.
> 
> The reports say Zimmerman was attacked and had a bad bruise on his face from being hit in the face with a soda can. A witness said the young man was on top of him beating the older man. That tells you the kid wasn't innocent in this either and there was a confrontation.
> 
> 
> The chief listened to what Zimmerman said, there are reports that Zimmerman had wounds on him, and there is an eyewitness who saw him on the ground before he shot the kid.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/
> 
> 
> According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.
> 
> Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which *Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling.*"
> 
> *Police said they twice tried to interview her without success*, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.
> 
> George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
> 
> ---
> 
> According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: *young man:* "why you following me?" - *Hispanic man:* "what are you doing around here?" - *a struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.*
> 
> so, a guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.
> 
> where is the crime?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, what we know isTrayvon Martin initiated a verbal confrontation. [/B]
> 
> it seems like the young man might have started a physical confrontation after he started a verbal confrontation, all before he knew the guy had an equalizer ... poor kid, but he acted stupidly. a tragedy for all involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good job...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I guess you gotta take a compliment how ever you can get it these days huh?


----------



## uptownlivin90

High_Gravity said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was a fucking moronic comment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He should sell that statement to Sharpton.
> 
> I'm sure he could always use new fresh ideas to create controversy and get on TV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't stand racists, no matter what side of the tracks they are from.
Click to expand...


Absolutely.

Hate and racism is useless, it won't bring Trayvon back and it will just make society worse.


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good job...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess you gotta take a compliment how ever you can get it these days huh?
Click to expand...


"Why are you following me"? is starting a verbal confrontation?


----------



## Ravi

Peach said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you gotta take a compliment how ever you can get it these days huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Why are you following me"? is starting a verbal confrontation?
Click to expand...

Dante Logic:

Dante could be walking down my street and I could be as well, several feet behind him. He could then turn to me and say, why are you following me? and I'd be justified in blowing his head off.


----------



## The Gadfly

High_Gravity said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering why (1) Zimmerman is STILL walking around with a concealed carry liscence, and (2) why is this fucker still free?
> 
> Hey...........even when police officers shoot somone in the line of duty, they are put on paid leave until the investigation is complete.
> 
> Shouln't Zimmerman AT THE VERY LEAST have to surrender his permit?  He's proven that he's capable of shooting unarmed people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My questions along with why no BAC & drug tests? Obviously, his firearm should have been held for a few days for testing. I do not think Seminole county has everyday killings of strangers. Most killings are between family/friends.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
Click to expand...


HG, a tox screen is standard procedure in an autopsy.  Doesn't mean anyone thought Martin was intoxicated or on drugs at all. Just routine.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ravi said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you gotta take a compliment how ever you can get it these days huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Why are you following me"? is starting a verbal confrontation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dante Logic:
> 
> Dante could be walking down my street and I could be as well, several feet behind him. He could then turn to me and say, why are you following me? and I'd be justified in blowing his head off.
Click to expand...


Its not just Dante, several posters seem to follow that logic.


----------



## The Gadfly

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
Click to expand...


Unless he showed some evidence of intoxication, probably not. The mere fact that an officer has sufficient probable cause to arrest someone does not necessarily mean there is probable cause for an alcohol test (which legally is a "search" according to legal precedent). You can't even *force* a DUI suspect to submit to a breath or BAC test ( you can take his license for refusing, in most states, but NOT force him to take a test-unlawful search, among other things).


----------



## The Gadfly

Ravi said:


> This was from last night:
> 
> 
> 
> Mary Cutcher describes what she witnessed that night.
> 
> "And at the time that we heard the whining and then the gunshot, we did not hear any wrestling, no punching, no fighting, nothing to make it sound like there was a fight," Cutcher said to Anderson Cooper.
> 
> Cutcher told Cooper that she does not believe the Zimmerman acted in self-defense.
> 
> "Originally, I didn't believe it was self-defense because of what we saw when we walked out on the porch. If it was self-defense, why was he on Trayvon's back?"
> 
> Another caller, Selma Mora Lamilla, who was also on Anderson Cooper 360, said she saw Zimmerman straddling Martin's body after the shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Witness to FL teen shooting: not self-defense - WTOL.com: News, Weather and Sport for Toledo, Ohio
> 
> It doesn't jibe with Zimmerman's story that the kid was found face down with his hands under his body.
Click to expand...

Why not?  Ravi, tell me, does a man shot from in front always fall backward.? Yes or no?


----------



## High_Gravity

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless he showed some evidence of intoxication, probably not. The mere fact that an officer has sufficient probable cause to arrest someone does not necessarily mean there is probable cause for an alcohol test (which legally is a "search" according to legal precedent). You can't even *force* a DUI suspect to submit to a breath or BAC test ( you can take his license for refusing, in most states, but NOT force him to take a test-unlawful search, among other things).
Click to expand...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I run someone over with my car and kill them, I have to take a drug/alcohol test correct? and if so, why is it different with a shooting suspect?


----------



## Emma

The Gadfly said:


> Why not?  Ravi, tell me, does a man shot from in front always fall backward.? Yes or no?



I have concerns about Martin being found _face down with his arms underneath his body_. If he was on top attacking, as zimmerman apparently claimed (and so many here argue) and with zimmerman on his back, how DID Martin end up in that position? If zimmerman fired the shot as he wrestled --- with Martin on top, it seems like the kid would have fallen backward (face up) or to the side. If he fell down on top of zimmerman, then he still would have been on his back or side as zimmerman pushed the body off himself. The only way I can see how he ended up in that position is if zimmerman shot him from behind. What am I missing here?


----------



## Si modo

High_Gravity said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless he showed some evidence of intoxication, probably not. The mere fact that an officer has sufficient probable cause to arrest someone does not necessarily mean there is probable cause for an alcohol test (which legally is a "search" according to legal precedent). You can't even *force* a DUI suspect to submit to a breath or BAC test ( you can take his license for refusing, in most states, but NOT force him to take a test-unlawful search, among other things).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I run someone over with my car and kill them, I have to take a drug/alcohol test correct? and if so, why is it different with a shooting suspect?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily.  The cops can give you a field sobriety test even if they don't suspect that you are buzzed.  If you fail that, they can arrest you and then test your BAC (breathalyzer or blood draw).  Failing the field test is the probable cause for a search of your person (breath and/or blood).


----------



## The Gadfly

High_Gravity said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't probable cause be that he admitted shooting the kid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless he showed some evidence of intoxication, probably not. The mere fact that an officer has sufficient probable cause to arrest someone does not necessarily mean there is probable cause for an alcohol test (which legally is a "search" according to legal precedent). You can't even *force* a DUI suspect to submit to a breath or BAC test ( you can take his license for refusing, in most states, but NOT force him to take a test-unlawful search, among other things).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I run someone over with my car and kill them, I have to take a drug/alcohol test correct? and if so, why is it different with a shooting suspect?
Click to expand...

Good question HG. Unless your state's driver licensing statute says otherwise, though, the answer is NO, you don't, unless you consent. Otherwise, there has to be demonstrable probable cause that indicates you might have been impaired. On the other hand, if you were to be killed by say, a falling tree, your autopsy would include a toxicology screen as SOP. The law is sometimes a curious thing.


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless he showed some evidence of intoxication, probably not. The mere fact that an officer has sufficient probable cause to arrest someone does not necessarily mean there is probable cause for an alcohol test (which legally is a "search" according to legal precedent). You can't even *force* a DUI suspect to submit to a breath or BAC test ( you can take his license for refusing, in most states, but NOT force him to take a test-unlawful search, among other things).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I run someone over with my car and kill them, I have to take a drug/alcohol test correct? and if so, why is it different with a shooting suspect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily.  The cops can give you a field sobriety test even if they don't suspect that you are buzzed.  If you fail that, they can arrest you and then test your BAC (breathalyzer or blood draw).  Failing the field test is the probable cause for a search of your person (breath and/or blood).
Click to expand...


Precisely. Thanks.


----------



## Emma

I don't see anything in the police report that zimmerman had blood on his clothes. Has that been reported? 

I saw a show not long ago about a man who'd shot another, claiming it was in self defense. There were other indications he was lying, but one thing that got him convicted was that it was proven he shot the man in the chest as the victim was kneeling facing the shooter, because the blood patterns showed arterial spray in front of the body. I wish I could remember exactly what they said about a shot to the chest and the pattern of blood spray, but it would seem that if zimmerman was facing Martin and shot him in the chest, he'd have been bloodied too. Since the heart and aorta lie in the front of the body, if he shot him in the back through the chest, would the blood have sprayed away from zimmerman (iow out in front of Martin)?


----------



## Peach

High_Gravity said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Why are you following me"? is starting a verbal confrontation?
> 
> 
> 
> Dante Logic:
> 
> Dante could be walking down my street and I could be as well, several feet behind him. He could then turn to me and say, why are you following me? and I'd be justified in blowing his head off.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not just Dante, several posters seem to follow that logic.
Click to expand...


That appears to be the train of thought that leads to "why are you following me" as a CONFRONTATION.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dante Logic:
> 
> Dante could be walking down my street and I could be as well, several feet behind him. He could then turn to me and say, why are you following me? and I'd be justified in blowing his head off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not just Dante, several posters seem to follow that logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That appears to be the train of thought that leads to "why are you following me" as a CONFRONTATION.
Click to expand...

Technically, it is a confrontation, if one goes with actual definitions.  Confrontations are commonplace for everyone who has contact with others.  Combat is another situation, though.


----------



## The Gadfly

Emma said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?  Ravi, tell me, does a man shot from in front always fall backward.? Yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have concerns about Martin being found _face down with his arms underneath his body_. If he was on top attacking, as zimmerman apparently claimed (and so many here argue) and with zimmerman on his back, how DID Martin end up in that position? If zimmerman fired the shot as he wrestled --- with Martin on top, it seems like the kid would have fallen backward (face up) or to the side. If he fell down on top of zimmerman, then he still would have been on his back or side as zimmerman pushed the body off himself. The only way I can see how he ended up in that position is if zimmerman shot him from behind. What am I missing here?
Click to expand...


Emma,  this may help, From my post #895:


Martin was found face down; was he shot in the back? There is a common misconception, (expressed by some posters here) that a person shot from the front will always fall backwards. so that if Martin fell on his face as found, he must have been shot from behind. Having shot a considerable number of men in combat, and seen even more shot in that situation, I can tell you that a man shot from the front may just as easily fall forward, and a man shot from behind can just as easily fall backward.. Sometimes an individual shot from in front will be thrown violently backward( the result of a reaction of the nervous system to the impact of the bullet, I'm told) but that does not happen all or even most of the time in reality, no matter what you may have seen in the movies. Here, we have to have the autopsy findings (which should be conclusive on this point). The fact that Martin fell face down proves absolutely nothing. Still no proof for either self-defense, or manslaughter.

In addition,the autopsy will show us the path of the bullet, which will also show the relative positions of the two individuals at the moment the shot was fired. As for arterial blood spray, that would depend on where the bullet hit Martin; it could be considerable, or virtually non-existent. Bottom line, we need the autopsy findings to be sure of anything.


----------



## High_Gravity

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not just Dante, several posters seem to follow that logic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That appears to be the train of thought that leads to "why are you following me" as a CONFRONTATION.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Technically, it is a confrontation, if one goes with actual definitions.  Confrontations are commonplace for everyone who has contact with others.  Combat is another situation, though.
Click to expand...


A confrontation can be almost anything with face to face contact no?


----------



## Si modo

High_Gravity said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> That appears to be the train of thought that leads to "why are you following me" as a CONFRONTATION.
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, it is a confrontation, if one goes with actual definitions.  Confrontations are commonplace for everyone who has contact with others.  Combat is another situation, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A confrontation can be almost anything with face to face contact no?
Click to expand...

Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.

My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.


----------



## Emma

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?  Ravi, tell me, does a man shot from in front always fall backward.? Yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have concerns about Martin being found _face down with his arms underneath his body_. If he was on top attacking, as zimmerman apparently claimed (and so many here argue) and with zimmerman on his back, how DID Martin end up in that position? If zimmerman fired the shot as he wrestled --- with Martin on top, it seems like the kid would have fallen backward (face up) or to the side. If he fell down on top of zimmerman, then he still would have been on his back or side as zimmerman pushed the body off himself. The only way I can see how he ended up in that position is if zimmerman shot him from behind. What am I missing here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Emma,  this may help, From my post #895:
> 
> 
> Martin was found face down; was he shot in the back? There is a common misconception, (expressed by some posters here) that a person shot from the front will always fall backwards. so that if Martin fell on his face as found, he must have been shot from behind. Having shot a considerable number of men in combat, and seen even more shot in that situation, I can tell you that a man shot from the front may just as easily fall forward, and a man shot from behind can just as easily fall backward.. Sometimes an individual shot from in front will be thrown violently backward( the result of a reaction of the nervous system to the impact of the bullet, I'm told) but that does not happen all or even most of the time in reality, no matter what you may have seen in the movies. Here, we have to have the autopsy findings (which should be conclusive on this point). The fact that Martin fell face down proves absolutely nothing. Still no proof for either self-defense, or manslaughter.
> 
> In addition,the autopsy will show us the path of the bullet, which will also show the relative positions of the two individuals at the moment the shot was fired. As for arterial blood spray, that would depend on where the bullet hit Martin; it could be considerable, or virtually non-existent. Bottom line, we need the autopsy findings to be sure of anything.
Click to expand...


Thank you. I don't doubt for a minute that a person can fall in any direction when shot. What's being held here is that zimmerman was on his back, being attacked by Martin (grass noted on the back of zimmerman's jacket). It seems from what the witnesses have said, the shot came as they were wrestling about. _That's_ where I have a hard time seeing how Martin ended up face down with his arms underneath his body.


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, it is a confrontation, if one goes with actual definitions.  Confrontations are commonplace for everyone who has contact with others.  Combat is another situation, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A confrontation can be almost anything with face to face contact no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.
> 
> My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.
Click to expand...


Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

High_Gravity said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama is half black half white, and Zimmerman is half white half Hispanic, not rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But obama identifies himself as black isn't that correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, so? if he tried to say he was white how would that fly?
Click to expand...

I don't know maybe he should try it sometime.
However, This was the comment that I directed my comment too.



> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.


Zimmerman doesn't look white he looks Hispanic.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have concerns about Martin being found _face down with his arms underneath his body_. If he was on top attacking, as zimmerman apparently claimed (and so many here argue) and with zimmerman on his back, how DID Martin end up in that position? If zimmerman fired the shot as he wrestled --- with Martin on top, it seems like the kid would have fallen backward (face up) or to the side. If he fell down on top of zimmerman, then he still would have been on his back or side as zimmerman pushed the body off himself. The only way I can see how he ended up in that position is if zimmerman shot him from behind. What am I missing here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma,  this may help, From my post #895:
> 
> 
> Martin was found face down; was he shot in the back? There is a common misconception, (expressed by some posters here) that a person shot from the front will always fall backwards. so that if Martin fell on his face as found, he must have been shot from behind. Having shot a considerable number of men in combat, and seen even more shot in that situation, I can tell you that a man shot from the front may just as easily fall forward, and a man shot from behind can just as easily fall backward.. Sometimes an individual shot from in front will be thrown violently backward( the result of a reaction of the nervous system to the impact of the bullet, I'm told) but that does not happen all or even most of the time in reality, no matter what you may have seen in the movies. Here, we have to have the autopsy findings (which should be conclusive on this point). The fact that Martin fell face down proves absolutely nothing. Still no proof for either self-defense, or manslaughter.
> 
> In addition,the autopsy will show us the path of the bullet, which will also show the relative positions of the two individuals at the moment the shot was fired. As for arterial blood spray, that would depend on where the bullet hit Martin; it could be considerable, or virtually non-existent. Bottom line, we need the autopsy findings to be sure of anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you. I don't doubt for a minute that a person can fall in any direction when shot. What's being held here is that zimmerman was on his back, being attacked by Martin (grass noted on the back of zimmerman's jacket). It seems from what the witnesses have said, the shot came as they were wrestling about. _That's_ where I have a hard time seeing how Martin ended up face down with his arms underneath his body.
Click to expand...

I didn't hear that report, but if that is the case, it was likely that Martin was leaning forward at the time of the shot.  So, falling on his face is going to happen.  And, if that is the case, Martin's arms were likely in front of him when the shot happened.

If that is the case......


----------



## Emma

Gadfly, his weapon was a 9mm Kel Tek semi auto handgun (per the police report). Of what you know of this weapon and the damage it can do, how easy would it be for the pathologist to determine entry / exit ?


----------



## Crackerjack

High_Gravity said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read they tested Trayvon's dead body for alcohol and drugs who is dead but not Zimmerman, what a huge joke.
> 
> 
> 
> If they had no probable cause to believe he was under the influence, they can't test him without violating his Constitutional rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But they still had the right to test the boys dead body? why?
Click to expand...

Corpses don't have rights.


----------



## Si modo

The Gadfly said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> A confrontation can be almost anything with face to face contact no?
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.
> 
> My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?
Click to expand...

I don't know.  The jury is going to have to figure that out with the independent evidence (eg. the witness that says they saw Zimmerman on his back (the kid walking his dog, I believe), any wounds Zimmerman may have had, any unexplained bruises Martin may have had, etc.).


----------



## Emma

The Gadfly said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> A confrontation can be almost anything with face to face contact no?
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.
> 
> My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?
Click to expand...


If Zimmerman did grab Martin, that's battery. I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure, however. 

You know that there are bad guys out there who target kids and teens. Yeah, Martin was 17, but by all appearance was a slightly-built young man, and Zimmerman was much larger. Who's to say that Martin didn't feel intimidated and frightened because this guy was watching and following him? Who's to say that Martin didn't think Zimmerman was out to rob or harm him from the start? That seems to be what his girlfriend indicated in describing her call with him.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But obama identifies himself as black isn't that correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, so? if he tried to say he was white how would that fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know maybe he should try it sometime.
> However, This was the comment that I directed my comment too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zimmerman doesn't look white he looks Hispanic.
Click to expand...





He looks like a redneck to this here Okie.

The cop called him white.

Why so many people are so good at identifying Hispanics and not considering them white is a little bit alarming to me.

What does it matter whether he is "Hispanic" or white?  Whatever his "race", he had blacks in that community afraid to walk around their own neighborhood because of his profiling activities.  


His self-assumed law enforcement persona seems to have had a lot of people buffaloed into letting his sickness grow unchecked, until it ended in this tragedy the Martins are living with now.


----------



## Ravi

I can tell you one thing, I wish Al Sharpton had stayed away from Florida. If any of these rallies get overheated it is going to totally suck.


----------



## Crackerjack

Huey said:


> well I'll tell you what,this **** will get his,in spades.


Dem messicans is takin' our jobs!  We whites is posed ta be the only ones killin' minorities around heah!


----------



## Emma

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, so? if he tried to say he was white how would that fly?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know maybe he should try it sometime.
> However, This was the comment that I directed my comment too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zimmerman doesn't look white he looks Hispanic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He looks like a redneck to this here Okie.
> 
> The cop called him white.
Click to expand...


The _Hispanic_ officer called him white.

Frankly, I don't see why it matters.


----------



## uptownlivin90

The Gadfly said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> A confrontation can be almost anything with face to face contact no?
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.
> 
> My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. *Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?*
Click to expand...


I've been saying that this entire time. Here's the thing though:

I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.

We can speculate and we can do so based on the situation and on the records of both individuals. Trayvon had a clear record, evidenced by the fact that police could not identify him because his fingerprints weren't in the system. It's hard for me to assume he initiated contact.

In the long run though, evidence is too stale. Even if there was a witness who saw the whole thing, it still might be written off, the investigation took to long and the authorities didn't seem interested in truly determining who actually initiated the "combat" if combat ever occurred.

It's been my opinion that Zimmerman will walk free, since I first saw this case. It was set up that way. One thing I'll say about Zimmerman, he's obviously not stupid. He knew exactly what to say and what not to say.


----------



## High_Gravity

bigrebnc1775 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But obama identifies himself as black isn't that correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, so? if he tried to say he was white how would that fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I don't know maybe he should try it sometime.*However, This was the comment that I directed my comment too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zimmerman doesn't look white he looks Hispanic.
Click to expand...


Well I am half Black and half white like our President and I can tell you that doesn't work, if Obama tried saying he is a white man people would say he is an idiot. In this society you are judged by what you look like, if you are half black/half white and look Black, you will be treated as such, same with Zimmerman, he is not white.


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.
> 
> My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. *Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been saying that this entire time. Here's the thing though:
> 
> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.
> 
> We can speculate and we can do so based on the situation and on the records of both individuals. Trayvon had a clear record, evidenced by the fact that police could not identify him because his fingerprints weren't in the system. It's hard for me to assume he initiated contact.
> 
> In the long run though, evidence is too stale. Even if there was a witness who saw the whole thing, it still might be written off, the investigation took to long and the authorities didn't seem interested in truly determining who actually initiated the "combat" if combat ever occurred.
> 
> It's been my opinion that Zimmerman will walk free, since I first saw this case. It was set up that way. One thing I'll say about Zimmerman, he's obviously not stupid. He knew exactly what to say and what not to say.
Click to expand...


This is the same state where Casey Anthony walked, I also believe Zimmerman will walk free.


----------



## Peach

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, so? if he tried to say he was white how would that fly?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know maybe he should try it sometime.
> However, This was the comment that I directed my comment too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awfully pale to me and apparently to the cops, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zimmerman doesn't look white he looks Hispanic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He looks like a redneck to this here Okie.
> 
> The cop called him white.
> 
> Why so many people are so good at identifying Hispanics and not considering them white is a little bit alarming to me.
> 
> What does it matter whether he is "Hispanic" or white?  Whatever his "race", he had blacks in that community afraid to walk around their own neighborhood because of his profiling activities.
> 
> 
> His self-assumed law enforcement persona seems to have had a lot of people buffaloed into letting his sickness grow unchecked, until it ended in this tragedy the Martins are living with now.
Click to expand...



THAT is the problem, and no investigation at the scene. IF he was allowed to keep his firearm AFTER the killing, the "no confidence" vote of the local commission is understandable. THEY called in the Feds also.


----------



## Si modo

uptownlivin90 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.
> 
> My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. *Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been saying that this entire time. Here's the thing though:
> 
> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.
> 
> We can speculate and we can do so based on the situation and on the records of both individuals. Trayvon had a clear record, evidenced by the fact that police could not identify him because his fingerprints weren't in the system. It's hard for me to assume he initiated contact.
> 
> In the long run though, evidence is too stale. Even if there was a witness who saw the whole thing, it still might be written off, the investigation took to long and the authorities didn't seem interested in truly determining who actually initiated the "combat" if combat ever occurred.
> 
> It's been my opinion that Zimmerman will walk free, since I first saw this case. It was set up that way. One thing I'll say about Zimmerman, he's obviously not stupid. *He knew exactly what to say and what not to say.*
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that is the case as well.  He's a wannabe copper and self-appointed neighborhood watch dude.  He lived for this stuff - looked for shit where there was none because that fulfilled his apparent sad and pathetic life.  So, I'm guessing he knew the law quite well.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Emma said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much, as long as there is some difference of views.
> 
> My first boss said something to me that sticks in my head:  Confrontation is unavoidable, combat is a choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did grab Martin, that's battery. I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure, however.
> 
> You know that there are bad guys out there who target kids and teens. Yeah, Martin was 17, but by all appearance was a slightly-built young man, and Zimmerman was much larger. *Who's to say that Martin didn't feel intimidated and frightened because this guy was watching and following him?* Who's to say that Martin didn't think Zimmerman was out to rob or harm him from the start? That seems to be what his girlfriend indicated in describing her call with him.
Click to expand...


Exactly why it's not smart to stalk people and try to take justice into your own hands being a one man vigilante show.

The sad thing is, something deep in me is absolutely sure that is what happened. What scares me is thinking what I might have done having put myself in that exact situation, especially when I was 17. Scary to think this very well could have been me.


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did grab Martin, that's battery. I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure, however.
> 
> You know that there are bad guys out there who target kids and teens. Yeah, Martin was 17, but by all appearance was a slightly-built young man, and Zimmerman was much larger. *Who's to say that Martin didn't feel intimidated and frightened because this guy was watching and following him?* Who's to say that Martin didn't think Zimmerman was out to rob or harm him from the start? That seems to be what his girlfriend indicated in describing her call with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly why it's not smart to stalk people and try to take justice into your own hands being a one man vigilante show.
> 
> The sad thing is, something deep in me is absolutely sure that is what happened. What scares me is thinking what I might have done having put myself in that exact situation, especially when I was 17. Scary to think this very well could have been me.
Click to expand...



Going to a convenience store to get candy & bottled tea can happen every day, to anyone. It is NOT every day that police do not investigate a killing.


----------



## High_Gravity

uptownlivin90 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did grab Martin, that's battery. I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure, however.
> 
> You know that there are bad guys out there who target kids and teens. Yeah, Martin was 17, but by all appearance was a slightly-built young man, and Zimmerman was much larger. *Who's to say that Martin didn't feel intimidated and frightened because this guy was watching and following him?* Who's to say that Martin didn't think Zimmerman was out to rob or harm him from the start? That seems to be what his girlfriend indicated in describing her call with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly why it's not smart to stalk people and try to take justice into your own hands being a one man vigilante show.
> 
> The sad thing is, something deep in me is absolutely sure that is what happened. What scares me is thinking what I might have done having put myself in that exact situation, especially when I was 17. Scary to think this very well could have been me.
Click to expand...


Thats why so many feelings are being brought out with this case, alot of people can put themselves in Trayvon's shoes.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Peach said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did grab Martin, that's battery. I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure, however.
> 
> You know that there are bad guys out there who target kids and teens. Yeah, Martin was 17, but by all appearance was a slightly-built young man, and Zimmerman was much larger. *Who's to say that Martin didn't feel intimidated and frightened because this guy was watching and following him?* Who's to say that Martin didn't think Zimmerman was out to rob or harm him from the start? That seems to be what his girlfriend indicated in describing her call with him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why it's not smart to stalk people and try to take justice into your own hands being a one man vigilante show.
> 
> The sad thing is, something deep in me is absolutely sure that is what happened. What scares me is thinking what I might have done having put myself in that exact situation, especially when I was 17. Scary to think this very well could have been me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Going to a convenience store to get candy & bottled tea can happen every day, to anyone. It is NOT every day that police do not investigate a killing.
Click to expand...


I'm perfectly in agreement with you. I have the same questions you do...

I'm just saying we've seen this kind of thing play out before. The evidence might not be there to convict him in the court of law and the idiot might get away free with bloody hands.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Si modo said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right on target (pardon the pun). See, we can discuss this like sane adults, if we try. Now, the key words Si, are "combat is a choice". Somebody had to make a decision to take the verbal confrontation here (which we know occurred) and make it PHYSICAL. The question now is, WHO did that. *Did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin strike Zimmerman first ?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been saying that this entire time. Here's the thing though:
> 
> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.
> 
> We can speculate and we can do so based on the situation and on the records of both individuals. Trayvon had a clear record, evidenced by the fact that police could not identify him because his fingerprints weren't in the system. It's hard for me to assume he initiated contact.
> 
> In the long run though, evidence is too stale. Even if there was a witness who saw the whole thing, it still might be written off, the investigation took to long and the authorities didn't seem interested in truly determining who actually initiated the "combat" if combat ever occurred.
> 
> It's been my opinion that Zimmerman will walk free, since I first saw this case. It was set up that way. One thing I'll say about Zimmerman, he's obviously not stupid. *He knew exactly what to say and what not to say.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm guessing that is the case as well.  He's a wannabe copper and self-appointed neighborhood watch dude.  He lived for this stuff - looked for shit where there was none because that fulfilled his apparent sad and pathetic life.  So, I'm guessing he knew the law quite well.
Click to expand...


I thought for a moment about the possibility that maybe Zimmy was the one breaking into houses in his neighborhood just to give himself something to do...


----------



## Crackerjack

uptownlivin90 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why it's not smart to stalk people and try to take justice into your own hands being a one man vigilante show.
> 
> The sad thing is, something deep in me is absolutely sure that is what happened. What scares me is thinking what I might have done having put myself in that exact situation, especially when I was 17. Scary to think this very well could have been me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to a convenience store to get candy & bottled tea can happen every day, to anyone. It is NOT every day that police do not investigate a killing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm perfectly in agreement with you. I have the same questions you do...
> 
> I'm just saying we've seen this kind of thing play out before. The evidence might not be there to convict him in the court of law and the idiot might get away free with bloody hands.
Click to expand...

We're not talking just any court, either.  We're talking about a Florida jury, where the rules of logic and reason rarely seem to apply.

My prediction -- the grand jury indicts him, but the petit jury acquits him.


----------



## Emma

uptownlivin90 said:


> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.


I agree. Zimmerman's going to walk, regardless of whether he's ultimately charged. 

I know what I _believe_ happened. I heard the tapes. I saw the map and the streets and where the initial call was placed and where the shooting occurred. I saw how far Zimmerman followed (chased?) Martin. Two-tenths of a mile isn't very far, but in a situation like this it's far enough for Zimmerman to have heeded the advice of the dispatcher and let the police check Martin out. IMO he went _looking_ for a confrontation. I don't see a 17 year old, 140 lb kid with a can of ice tea as his only weapon initiating an attack on a man who not only outweighs him by a hundred pounds, but is toting a gun besides. 

Zimmerman saw himself as the community protector. He saw someone he didn't recognize, and didn't believe belonged in his neighborhood. He took it upon himself to track this kid, and things spiraled out of control. Once it was over, and Zimmerman realized what he'd done, he had an "oh shit!" moment. He knew that people _had_ to have heard the cries for help. He knew he was fucked if police decided he had no cause to shoot this young man. He also knew the law. So he tells paramedics he called for help and no one came. jmo, of course.


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why it's not smart to stalk people and try to take justice into your own hands being a one man vigilante show.
> 
> The sad thing is, something deep in me is absolutely sure that is what happened. What scares me is thinking what I might have done having put myself in that exact situation, especially when I was 17. Scary to think this very well could have been me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to a convenience store to get candy & bottled tea can happen every day, to anyone. It is NOT every day that police do not investigate a killing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm perfectly in agreement with you. I have the same questions you do...
> 
> I'm just saying we've seen this kind of thing play out before. The evidence might not be there to convict him in the court of law and the idiot might get away free with bloody hands.
Click to expand...



The lack of any real investigation by the Seminole County Sheriff's Department makes this a HUGE story.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Crackerjack said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going to a convenience store to get candy & bottled tea can happen every day, to anyone. It is NOT every day that police do not investigate a killing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm perfectly in agreement with you. I have the same questions you do...
> 
> I'm just saying we've seen this kind of thing play out before. The evidence might not be there to convict him in the court of law and the idiot might get away free with bloody hands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We're not talking just any court, either.  We're talking about a Florida jury, where the rules of logic and reason rarely seem to apply.
> 
> My prediction -- *the grand jury indicts him*, but the petit jury acquits him.
Click to expand...


That MIGHT happen because of all the media attention this case has been given. But I personally have this feeling they won't indict him. I agree that if they do however he will the petit jury will let him walk.


----------



## The Gadfly

uptownlivin90 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why it's not smart to stalk people and try to take justice into your own hands being a one man vigilante show.
> 
> The sad thing is, something deep in me is absolutely sure that is what happened. What scares me is thinking what I might have done having put myself in that exact situation, especially when I was 17. Scary to think this very well could have been me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to a convenience store to get candy & bottled tea can happen every day, to anyone. It is NOT every day that police do not investigate a killing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm perfectly in agreement with you. I have the same questions you do...
> 
> I'm just saying we've seen this kind of thing play out before. The evidence might not be there to convict him in the court of law and the idiot might get away free with bloody hands.
Click to expand...


Uptown, that is the unfortunate part of our judicial process. When you put a priority on protecting the rights of the innocent, the guilty sometimes walk free. That's not very satisfying, but lean the other way, even a little, and we put innocent people in prison (that already happens as it is), or worse. We reached a consensus long ago in America, that it's better to let ten guilty men walk free, than convict one innocent one. I believe that's right, but it doesn't always FEEL right.


----------



## Emma

uptownlivin90 said:


> The evidence might not be there to convict him in the court of law and the idiot might get away free with bloody hands.


I think he will. I don't think he's smart enough to learn his lesson; conversely, I think it will make him believe he can get away with shit like this and somewhere down the line it'll catch up to him. I just hope another person isn't killed before that happens.


----------



## Peach

The Gadfly said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going to a convenience store to get candy & bottled tea can happen every day, to anyone. It is NOT every day that police do not investigate a killing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm perfectly in agreement with you. I have the same questions you do...
> 
> I'm just saying we've seen this kind of thing play out before. The evidence might not be there to convict him in the court of law and the idiot might get away free with bloody hands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uptown, that is the unfortunate part of our judicial process. When you put a priority on protecting the rights of the innocent, the guilty sometimes walk free. That's not very satisfying, but lean the other way, even a little, and we put innocent people in prison (that already happens as it is), or worse. We reached a consensus long ago in America, that it's better to let ten guilty men walk free, than convict one innocent one. I believe that's right, but it doesn't always FEEL right.
Click to expand...



No investigation at the scene STINKS.


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry bro but that makes no sense to me, you can shoot someone but that doesn't necessarily mean you will be arrested? man I need a drink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.
> 
> Simple hypothetical.  Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall.
> 
> Did you commit a crime?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Should you be arrested?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats not the same thing though, Zimmerman was not saving anyone from terrorists.
Click to expand...


I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.

And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.

All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.
> 
> Simple hypothetical.  Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall.
> 
> Did you commit a crime?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Should you be arrested?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not the same thing though, Zimmerman was not saving anyone from terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
Click to expand...


Ok I got you.


----------



## Emma

Liability said:


> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.



The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw
Click to expand...

I think that's a statement he makes for political gain.  Legislators make law, but the interpretation of it is for the courts.  The question of law is always in the court, not the legislature.

I think he wants to cover his political ass because he championed a shit law.


----------



## Liability

Emma said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw
Click to expand...


I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.

I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.


----------



## Si modo

Liability said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
Click to expand...

Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine


----------



## High_Gravity

Si modo said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.
> 
> "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
Click to expand...


Do these stand your ground laws apply to minors? I heard someone say they don't.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.
> 
> "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
Click to expand...


And Martin could inflict great bodily harm or death HOW?


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not the same thing though, Zimmerman was not saving anyone from terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok I got you.
Click to expand...


Off topic:

It LOOKS like the lass in your avie is convinced that the beer goes right to her tits.

She might be right.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.
> 
> "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Martin could inflict great bodily harm or death HOW?
Click to expand...

  I'm wondering if you are being obtuse on purpose.

He has arms and legs, you know.

Or, had.


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I got you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off topic:
> 
> It LOOKS like the lass in your avie is convinced that the beer goes right to her tits.
> 
> She might be right.
Click to expand...


I am not a fan of marriage but I will totally marry this girl, any woman who can handle a 40 ounce like that has my respect.


----------



## Si modo

High_Gravity said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.
> 
> "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do these stand your ground laws apply to minors? I heard someone say they don't.
Click to expand...

Dunno.  Here's what it says with respect to that:

776.013&#8195;Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.&#8212;
(1)&#8195;A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

blahblahblah

(2)&#8195;The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

blahblahblah

(b)&#8195;The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or


----------



## Dante

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I got you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off topic:
> 
> It LOOKS like the lass in your avie is convinced that the beer goes right to her tits.
> 
> She might be right.
Click to expand...


I've asked this and can't seem to get a straight (white?) answer:

What is it about MarcATL and Inthemiddle that they want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Are their minds affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.

What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?


----------



## koshergrl

They're liberals.


----------



## The Gadfly

Emma said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Zimmerman's going to walk, regardless of whether he's ultimately charged.
> 
> I know what I _believe_ happened. I heard the tapes. I saw the map and the streets and where the initial call was placed and where the shooting occurred. I saw how far Zimmerman followed (chased?) Martin. Two-tenths of a mile isn't very far, but in a situation like this it's far enough for Zimmerman to have heeded the advice of the dispatcher and let the police check Martin out. IMO he went _looking_ for a confrontation. I don't see a 17 year old, 140 lb kid with a can of ice tea as his only weapon initiating an attack on a man who not only outweighs him by a hundred pounds, but is toting a gun besides.
> 
> Zimmerman saw himself as the community protector. He saw someone he didn't recognize, and didn't believe belonged in his neighborhood. He took it upon himself to track this kid, and things spiraled out of control. Once it was over, and Zimmerman realized what he'd done, he had an "oh shit!" moment. He knew that people _had_ to have heard the cries for help. He knew he was fucked if police decided he had no cause to shoot this young man. He also knew the law. So he tells paramedics he called for help and no one came. jmo, of course.
Click to expand...


That may have been how it actually happened, Emma. However it happened, this is tragic. This did not need to happen, and it could have been averted at several points. If Zimmerman had simply followed Martin from a distance and observed, nothing more would have happenedIf Martin had not run, and Zimmerman had not chased him, nothing would have happened-Martin would have simply walked to his father's house, and that would have been it. From the facts we have, here's what I think actually  happened-it makes a few assumptions, but not many:

This went bad, when Martin ran. This was a normal reaction. It was dark, Martin knew someone was following him; that made Martin nervous, and likely angry; he hadn't DONE anything, after all. Martin decided to run. Zimmerman decided to chase him, and caught up to him, probably close to the final scene. The verbal confrontation ensued. Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin. Martin responded like a typical 17 year-old; he was scared, and really angry now. Martin twisted or spun away from Zimmerman, winding up slightly to the side of and behind Zimmerman. The final piece of the puzzle comes into play here; if the iced tea was in a can (I did not know that earlier) here's where it comes into play. A full soft-drink can makes a reasonably effective improvised weapon of sorts, and it was all Martin had. Martin swung his hand, holding the can of tea, at Zimmerman's head, and connected. That was a heavy enough blow knock Zimmerman , already off-balance, to the ground, and accounts for the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head. Now, the tables were turned, and Martin had the advantage over his larger antagonist, now stunned and on his back. Martins's adrenaline was up; he was both scared, and fighting mad-again a normal reaction for a 17 year-old in that situation. He smacked Zimmerman in the face again with the can, trying to end the fight. If only he could put the bigger man out of action for a few seconds, he could get away and sprint to his father's house. Zimmerman , now losing the fight, panicked and yelled for help as Martin hit him again. Now, Zimmerman was desperate too; he reached for his gun, and used his other advantage, size, to push the smaller and lighter Martin off, drew, and fired one shot. A 9mm bullet will kill, but does not have a lot of knock-down effect; Martin hands still in front of him, fell forward to the ground, fatally hit.

Zimmerman's story about being hit as he got out of the vehicle is most probably false. He *most likely* DID grab Martin, or at least, lunge at him in an attempt to do so, BUT, *unless someone saw that, it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt*, and without that proof, and without further evidence, and with Martin dead and unable to tell the other side of the story, there's nothing else to contradict Zimmerman's account of events that is conclusive. There might be enough evidence to indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is false. in the end, though, Zimmerman may walk free, simply because his lawyer tells the jury the Trayvon Martin in fact DID have a weapon that night-a can of iced tea, and as crazy as it sounds, that just might be how this ends. That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...*because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.*


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.
> 
> "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Martin could inflict great bodily harm or death HOW?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm wondering if you are being obtuse on purpose.
> 
> He has arms and legs, you know.
> 
> Or, had.
Click to expand...


Yes, had. I am for a complete investigation. I do not contend Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, just that the Seminole county Sheriff's Department was lax in their investigation. Didn't take the gun, nor BAC or drug tests from Zimmerman. Too late now.


----------



## Si modo

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Zimmerman's going to walk, regardless of whether he's ultimately charged.
> 
> I know what I _believe_ happened. I heard the tapes. I saw the map and the streets and where the initial call was placed and where the shooting occurred. I saw how far Zimmerman followed (chased?) Martin. Two-tenths of a mile isn't very far, but in a situation like this it's far enough for Zimmerman to have heeded the advice of the dispatcher and let the police check Martin out. IMO he went _looking_ for a confrontation. I don't see a 17 year old, 140 lb kid with a can of ice tea as his only weapon initiating an attack on a man who not only outweighs him by a hundred pounds, but is toting a gun besides.
> 
> Zimmerman saw himself as the community protector. He saw someone he didn't recognize, and didn't believe belonged in his neighborhood. He took it upon himself to track this kid, and things spiraled out of control. Once it was over, and Zimmerman realized what he'd done, he had an "oh shit!" moment. He knew that people _had_ to have heard the cries for help. He knew he was fucked if police decided he had no cause to shoot this young man. He also knew the law. So he tells paramedics he called for help and no one came. jmo, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may have been how it actually happened, Emma. However it happened, this is tragic. This did not need to happen, and it could have been averted at several points. If Zimmerman had simply followed Martin from a distance and observed, nothing more would have happenedIf Martin had not run, and Zimmerman had not chased him, nothing would have happened-Martin would have simply walked to his father's house, and that would have been it. From the facts we have, here's what I think actually  happened-it makes a few assumptions, but not many:
> 
> This went bad, when Martin ran. This was a normal reaction. It was dark, Martin knew someone was following him; that made Martin nervous, and likely angry; he hadn't DONE anything, after all. Martin decided to run. Zimmerman decided to chase him, and caught up to him, probably close to the final scene. The verbal confrontation ensued. Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin. Martin responded like a typical 17 year-old; he was scared, and really angry now. Martin twisted or spun away from Zimmerman, winding up slightly to the side of and behind Zimmerman. The final piece of the puzzle comes into play here; if the iced tea was in a can (I did not know that earlier) here's where it comes into play. A full soft-drink can makes a reasonably effective improvised weapon of sorts, and it was all Martin had. Martin swung his hand, holding the can of tea, at Zimmerman's head, and connected. That was a heavy enough blow knock Zimmerman , already off-balance, to the ground, and accounts for the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head. Now, the tables were turned, and Martin had the advantage over his larger antagonist, now stunned and on his back. Martins's adrenaline was up; he was both scared, and fighting mad-again a normal reaction for a 17 year-old in that situation. He smacked Zimmerman in the face again with the can, trying to end the fight. If only he could put the bigger man out of action for a few seconds, he could get away and sprint to his father's house. Zimmerman , now losing the fight, panicked and yelled for help as Martin hit him again. Now, Zimmerman was desperate too; he reached for his gun, and used his other advantage, size, to push the smaller and lighter Martin off, drew, and fired one shot. A 9mm bullet will kill, but does not have a lot of knock-down effect; Martin hands still in front of him, fell forward to the ground, fatally hit.
> 
> Zimmerman's story about being hit as he got out of the vehicle is most probably false. He *most likely* DID grab Martin, or at least, lunge at him in an attempt to do so, BUT, *unless someone saw that, it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt*, and without that proof, and without further evidence, and with Martin dead and unable to tell the other side of the story, there's nothing else to contradict Zimmerman's account of events that is conclusive. There might be enough evidence to indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is false. in the end, though, Zimmerman may walk free, simply because his lawyer tells the jury the Trayvon Martin in fact DID have a weapon that night-a can of iced tea, and as crazy as it sounds, that just might be how this ends. That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...*because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.*
Click to expand...

The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Martin could inflict great bodily harm or death HOW?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if you are being obtuse on purpose.
> 
> He has arms and legs, you know.
> 
> Or, had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, had. I am for a complete investigation. I do not contend Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, just that the Seminole county Sheriff's Department was lax in their investigation. Didn't take the gun, nor BAC or drug tests from Zimmerman. Too late now.
Click to expand...

Um, yes they DID take the gun from Zimmerman.  It's right there in the cop report.  They took the gun and it's in evidence.

And, they CANNOT do a BAC on ANYONE without consent or probable cause to do so.


----------



## The Gadfly

Thanks, Si; someone had put the other140 weight out here earlier, so I had been going with that.


----------



## Si modo

The Gadfly said:


> Thanks, Si; someone had put the other140 weight out here earlier, so I had been going with that.


No problem.  Emma was a gem and first posted the cop report.

And, that's quite useful in showing the erroneous assumptions several have made already about this case.

Thank gawd we have courts and not mobs for justice.


----------



## Dante

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Martin could inflict great bodily harm or death HOW?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if you are being obtuse on purpose.
> 
> He has arms and legs, you know.
> 
> Or, had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, had. I am for a complete investigation. I do not contend Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, just that the Seminole county Sheriff's Department was lax in their investigation. Didn't take the gun, nor BAC or drug tests from Zimmerman. Too late now.
Click to expand...


Why should they have? All things on the surface seemed factual. '

*real life is NOT an episode of CSI*  you do realize police, prosecutors and the courts complain about people like you?   you watch an episode of a police crime drama on television and all of a sudden you want to sit in court as an expert. 

I've asked this and can't seem to get a straight (white?) answer:

What is it about MarcATL and Inthemiddle that they want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Are their minds affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.

What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Si; someone had put the other140 weight out here earlier, so I had been going with that.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem.  Emma was a gem and first posted the cop report.
> 
> And, that's quite useful in showing the erroneous assumptions several have made already about this case.
> 
> Thank gawd we have courts and not mobs for justice.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I really think there might be something to the iced tea can thing, as bizarre as that sounds. It is possible to kill a person with any number of everyday, innocuous objects, if one is so inclined, and either trained, or desperate and/or lucky. A ballpoint pen, a rolled-up newspaper or magazine...or a full beverage can. Try it; you can knock a hole in a piece of plywood with the end of one-just wrap your hand around the can, and swing it backhanded.


----------



## Ariux

The Gadfly said:


> Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin.



What makes you think Zimmerman tried to grab the black?  What makes you think a short, fat slob is going to try to physically restrain a 6' 160# buck, especially given that Zimmerman had a gun?  When the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to follow the black, Zimmerman agreed.  

The black could have jogged away any time he wanted.

Your argument sounds like pure prejudice.


----------



## The Gadfly

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if you are being obtuse on purpose.
> 
> He has arms and legs, you know.
> 
> Or, had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, had. I am for a complete investigation. I do not contend Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, just that the Seminole county Sheriff's Department was lax in their investigation. Didn't take the gun, nor BAC or drug tests from Zimmerman. Too late now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should they have? All things on the surface seemed factual. '
> 
> *real life is NOT an episode of CSI*  you do realize police, prosecutors and the courts complain about people like you?   you watch an episode of a police crime drama on television and all of a sudden you want to sit in court as an expert.
> 
> I've asked this and can't seem to get a straight (white?) answer:
> 
> What is it about MarcATL and Inthemiddle that they want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Are their minds affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.
> 
> What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?
Click to expand...


Short answer? Emotions, and what they see as a cover-up of a racially-motivated killing.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think Zimmerman tried to grab the black?  What makes you think a short, fat slob is going to try to physically restrain a 6' 160# buck, especially given that Zimmerman had a gun?  When the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to follow the black, Zimmerman agreed.
> 
> The black could have jogged away any time he wanted.
> 
> Your argument sounds like pure prejudice.
Click to expand...


So does your's


----------



## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think Zimmerman tried to grab the black?  What makes you think a short, fat slob is going to try to physically restrain a 6' 160# buck, especially given that Zimmerman had a gun?  When the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to follow the black, Zimmerman agreed.
> 
> The black could have jogged away any time he wanted.
> 
> Your argument sounds like pure prejudice.
Click to expand...


You are the once who is prejudiced here you racist piece of shit, and you are not fooling anyone, now go suck your boyfriend Zimmermans dick and shut the fuck up.


----------



## The Gadfly

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think Zimmerman tried to grab the black?  What makes you think a short, fat slob is going to try to physically restrain a 6' 160# buck, especially given that Zimmerman had a gun?  When the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to follow the black, Zimmerman agreed.
> 
> The black could have jogged away any time he wanted.
> 
> Your argument sounds like pure prejudice.
Click to expand...


Ah, just when we were having a civil discussion, the bigot slithers into the room....slither right back out, you snake!


----------



## Si modo

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if you are being obtuse on purpose.
> 
> He has arms and legs, you know.
> 
> Or, had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, had. I am for a complete investigation. I do not contend Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, just that the Seminole county Sheriff's Department was lax in their investigation. Didn't take the gun, nor BAC or drug tests from Zimmerman. Too late now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should they have? All things on the surface seemed factual. '
> 
> *real life is NOT an episode of CSI*  you do realize police, prosecutors and the courts complain about people like you?   you watch an episode of a police crime drama on television and all of a sudden you want to sit in court as an expert.
> 
> I've asked this and can't seem to get a straight (white?) answer:
> 
> What is it about MarcATL and Inthemiddle that they want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Are their minds affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.
> 
> What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?
Click to expand...

IMO, I believe some are more prone to suggestion than others (eg. some can be hypnotized and others cannot).  The media has made several suggestions that are to cause emotional reaction rather than thoughtful reaction.

And, some can't distinguish emotions from thoughts.

JMHO.


----------



## Crackerjack

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.
> 
> "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Martin could inflict great bodily harm or death HOW?
Click to expand...

Really?  You think it's impossible for him to have been able to inflict such substantial harm on another person?


----------



## Ariux

High_Gravity said:


> You are the once who is prejudiced here you racist piece of shit, and you are not fooling anyone, now go suck your boyfriend Zimmermans dick and shut the fuck up.



You'd have to come up with an argument before I could accuse you of using a prejudicial argument.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the once who is prejudiced here you racist piece of shit, and you are not fooling anyone, now go suck your boyfriend Zimmermans dick and shut the fuck up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd have to come up with an argument before I could accuse you of using a prejudicial argument.
Click to expand...


----------



## Conservative

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think Zimmerman tried to grab the black?  What makes you think a short, fat slob is going to try to physically restrain a 6' 160# buck, especially given that Zimmerman had a gun?  *When the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to follow the black, Zimmerman agreed.  *
> 
> The black could have jogged away any time he wanted.
> 
> Your argument sounds like pure prejudice.
Click to expand...


lying piece of shit. EVERY report on this states he ignored the 911 operator instructions in that regard.


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if you are being obtuse on purpose.
> 
> He has arms and legs, you know.
> 
> Or, had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, had. I am for a complete investigation. I do not contend Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, just that the Seminole county Sheriff's Department was lax in their investigation. Didn't take the gun, nor BAC or drug tests from Zimmerman. Too late now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should they have? All things on the surface seemed factual. '
> 
> *real life is NOT an episode of CSI*  you do realize police, prosecutors and the courts complain about people like you?   you watch an episode of a police crime drama on television and all of a sudden you want to sit in court as an expert.
> 
> I've asked this and can't seem to get a straight (white?) answer:
> 
> What is it about MarcATL and Inthemiddle that they want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Are their minds affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.
> 
> What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?
Click to expand...


Si posted the firearm was retained. As for Zimmerman's hands and residue, no evidence of that. I think a BAC/drug test would be standard. No accusations from me, I still see an incomplete investigation. The Grand Jury will decide if any crime occurred.


----------



## Ariux

Crackerjack said:


> Really?  You think it's impossible for him to have been able to inflict such substantial harm on another person?



I can't wait to see a reply, an argument from racist stupidity, that a large black buck, with thicker bones and skull, and a more developed muscular structure, than that of a Caucasian man, couldn't inflict harm on the man.  

Zimmerman was bleeding from both the back and front of his head, and was at one point on his back (in grass, so it's unlikely the wound on the back of the head came from a fall, but more likely from a cowardly black jumping him from behind (maybe with a rock) - which is the testimony of the victim). 

No doubt, the black dragged Zimmerman down, perched on top, and proceeded to maul Zimmerman, while the Jewish Mr. Zimmerman cried like a little girl for help.


----------



## Si modo

Ariux said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  You think it's impossible for him to have been able to inflict such substantial harm on another person?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see a reply, an argument from racist stupidity, that a large black buck, with thicker bones and skull, and a more developed muscular structure, than that of a Caucasian man, couldn't inflict harm on the man.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from both the back and front of his head, and was at one point on his back (in grass, so it's unlikely the wound on the back of the head came from a fall, but more likely from a cowardly black jumping him from behind (maybe with a rock) - which is the testimony of the victim).
> 
> No doubt, the black dragged Zimmerman down, perched on top, and proceeded to maul Zimmerman, while the Jewish Mr. Zimmerman cried like a little girl for help.
Click to expand...

Moron.


----------



## Ariux

Conservative said:


> lying piece of shit. EVERY report on this states he ignored the 911 operator instructions in that regard.



What's up with you stupid liberals, who can't be bothered with the evidence?  

911: We don't kneed you to [follow him].
Zimmerman: Okay.

What evidence do you have that Zimmerman continued to follow the black?  What report states he ignored this?  "Lying piece of shit", why do you stupid liberals always sound like you're talking to yourselves?


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, had. I am for a complete investigation. I do not contend Zimmerman is guilty of any crime, just that the Seminole county Sheriff's Department was lax in their investigation. Didn't take the gun, nor BAC or drug tests from Zimmerman. Too late now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should they have? All things on the surface seemed factual. '
> 
> *real life is NOT an episode of CSI*  you do realize police, prosecutors and the courts complain about people like you?   you watch an episode of a police crime drama on television and all of a sudden you want to sit in court as an expert.
> 
> I've asked this and can't seem to get a straight (white?) answer:
> 
> What is it about MarcATL and Inthemiddle that they want a lynch mob before all evidence is in? Are their minds affected by some kind of mental illness? This is a serious question. MarcATL and a few other people have become completely unhinged over a tragedy that is not theirs.
> 
> What is it about lonely shut-ins with internet service that makes them so angry and irrational?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Si posted the firearm was retained. As for Zimmerman's hands and residue, no evidence of that. I think a BAC/drug test would be standard. No accusations from me, I still see an incomplete investigation. The Grand Jury will decide if any crime occurred.
Click to expand...

He admitted to the shooting so why do you think a test confirming that he made the shot would be necessary?

And, ONCE AGAIN, the police *CANNOT* to a BAC on *anyone* unless they have probable cause or the subject consents to it.

THAT is the LAW in ALL states as it is a Constitutional right.


----------



## Emma

Liability said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
Click to expand...


As I understand it, what's unique about this law is there is no duty to retreat at any point.


----------



## Emma

The Gadfly said:


> That may have been how it actually happened, Emma. However it happened, this is tragic. This did not need to happen, and it could have been averted at several points. If Zimmerman had simply followed Martin from a distance and observed, nothing more would have happenedIf Martin had not run, and Zimmerman had not chased him, nothing would have happened-Martin would have simply walked to his father's house, and that would have been it. From the facts we have, here's what I think actually  happened-it makes a few assumptions, but not many:
> 
> This went bad, when Martin ran. This was a normal reaction. It was dark, Martin knew someone was following him; that made Martin nervous, and likely angry; he hadn't DONE anything, after all. Martin decided to run. Zimmerman decided to chase him, and caught up to him, probably close to the final scene. The verbal confrontation ensued. Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin. Martin responded like a typical 17 year-old; he was scared, and really angry now. Martin twisted or spun away from Zimmerman, winding up slightly to the side of and behind Zimmerman. The final piece of the puzzle comes into play here; if the iced tea was in a can (I did not know that earlier) here's where it comes into play. A full soft-drink can makes a reasonably effective improvised weapon of sorts, and it was all Martin had. Martin swung his hand, holding the can of tea, at Zimmerman's head, and connected. That was a heavy enough blow knock Zimmerman , already off-balance, to the ground, and accounts for the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head. Now, the tables were turned, and Martin had the advantage over his larger antagonist, now stunned and on his back. Martins's adrenaline was up; he was both scared, and fighting mad-again a normal reaction for a 17 year-old in that situation. He smacked Zimmerman in the face again with the can, trying to end the fight. If only he could put the bigger man out of action for a few seconds, he could get away and sprint to his father's house. Zimmerman , now losing the fight, panicked and yelled for help as Martin hit him again. Now, Zimmerman was desperate too; he reached for his gun, and used his other advantage, size, to push the smaller and lighter Martin off, drew, and fired one shot. A 9mm bullet will kill, but does not have a lot of knock-down effect; Martin hands still in front of him, fell forward to the ground, fatally hit.
> 
> Zimmerman's story about being hit as he got out of the vehicle is most probably false. He *most likely* DID grab Martin, or at least, lunge at him in an attempt to do so, BUT, *unless someone saw that, it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt*, and without that proof, and without further evidence, and with Martin dead and unable to tell the other side of the story, there's nothing else to contradict Zimmerman's account of events that is conclusive. There might be enough evidence to indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is false. in the end, though, Zimmerman may walk free, simply because his lawyer tells the jury the Trayvon Martin in fact DID have a weapon that night-a can of iced tea, and as crazy as it sounds, that just might be how this ends. That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...*because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.*



Yeah. 

The girlfriend's description of the call fits this scenario. Although, I think Martin was more scared than angry. If he used the can as a weapon IMO it was in desperation, as you state, so that he could get away from zimmerman.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4v3zH0exag]Trayvon Martin Hijacked by Racist Media... - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bayoubill

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Zimmerman's going to walk, regardless of whether he's ultimately charged.
> 
> I know what I _believe_ happened. I heard the tapes. I saw the map and the streets and where the initial call was placed and where the shooting occurred. I saw how far Zimmerman followed (chased?) Martin. Two-tenths of a mile isn't very far, but in a situation like this it's far enough for Zimmerman to have heeded the advice of the dispatcher and let the police check Martin out. IMO he went _looking_ for a confrontation. I don't see a 17 year old, 140 lb kid with a can of ice tea as his only weapon initiating an attack on a man who not only outweighs him by a hundred pounds, but is toting a gun besides.
> 
> Zimmerman saw himself as the community protector. He saw someone he didn't recognize, and didn't believe belonged in his neighborhood. He took it upon himself to track this kid, and things spiraled out of control. Once it was over, and Zimmerman realized what he'd done, he had an "oh shit!" moment. He knew that people _had_ to have heard the cries for help. He knew he was fucked if police decided he had no cause to shoot this young man. He also knew the law. So he tells paramedics he called for help and no one came. jmo, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may have been how it actually happened, Emma. However it happened, this is tragic. This did not need to happen, and it could have been averted at several points. If Zimmerman had simply followed Martin from a distance and observed, nothing more would have happenedIf Martin had not run, and Zimmerman had not chased him, nothing would have happened-Martin would have simply walked to his father's house, and that would have been it. From the facts we have, here's what I think actually  happened-it makes a few assumptions, but not many:
> 
> This went bad, when Martin ran. This was a normal reaction. It was dark, Martin knew someone was following him; that made Martin nervous, and likely angry; he hadn't DONE anything, after all. Martin decided to run. Zimmerman decided to chase him, and caught up to him, probably close to the final scene. The verbal confrontation ensued. Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin. Martin responded like a typical 17 year-old; he was scared, and really angry now. Martin twisted or spun away from Zimmerman, winding up slightly to the side of and behind Zimmerman. The final piece of the puzzle comes into play here; if the iced tea was in a can (I did not know that earlier) here's where it comes into play. A full soft-drink can makes a reasonably effective improvised weapon of sorts, and it was all Martin had. Martin swung his hand, holding the can of tea, at Zimmerman's head, and connected. That was a heavy enough blow knock Zimmerman , already off-balance, to the ground, and accounts for the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head. Now, the tables were turned, and Martin had the advantage over his larger antagonist, now stunned and on his back. Martins's adrenaline was up; he was both scared, and fighting mad-again a normal reaction for a 17 year-old in that situation. He smacked Zimmerman in the face again with the can, trying to end the fight. If only he could put the bigger man out of action for a few seconds, he could get away and sprint to his father's house. Zimmerman , now losing the fight, panicked and yelled for help as Martin hit him again. Now, Zimmerman was desperate too; he reached for his gun, and used his other advantage, size, to push the smaller and lighter Martin off, drew, and fired one shot. A 9mm bullet will kill, but does not have a lot of knock-down effect; Martin hands still in front of him, fell forward to the ground, fatally hit.
> 
> Zimmerman's story about being hit as he got out of the vehicle is most probably false. He *most likely* DID grab Martin, or at least, lunge at him in an attempt to do so, BUT, *unless someone saw that, it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt*, and without that proof, and without further evidence, and with Martin dead and unable to tell the other side of the story, there's nothing else to contradict Zimmerman's account of events that is conclusive. There might be enough evidence to indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is false. in the end, though, Zimmerman may walk free, simply because his lawyer tells the jury the Trayvon Martin in fact DID have a weapon that night-a can of iced tea, and as crazy as it sounds, that just might be how this ends. That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...*because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.*
Click to expand...


yep...


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


I wonder if that's a guestimate from the cop on the scene or what was found on autopsy. Even numbers like that lead me to believe it was what the officer estimated as Martin's size. The autopsy height and weight would have been more precise.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if that's a guestimate from the cop on the scene or what was found on autopsy. Even numbers like that lead me to believe it was what the officer estimated as Martin's size. The autopsy height and weight would have been more precise.
Click to expand...

Could be.  And, I thanked you earlier for that link.  It was a good find.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Um, yes they DID take the gun from Zimmerman.  It's right there in the cop report.  They took the gun and it's in evidence.



It's not clear if they kept the gun upon Zimmerman's release, only that the officer took it at the scene. I can't find anything official that states one way or the other if they kept it and for how long.


----------



## Peach

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if that's a guestimate from the cop on the scene or what was found on autopsy. Even numbers like that lead me to believe it was what the officer estimated as Martin's size. The autopsy height and weight would have been more precise.
Click to expand...


And as Zimmerman did not receive any medical attention, he does not have suffered a fractured skull. He was able to put a bullet in the deceased despite HIS injuries. Arguing the can was swung as deadly force when the killer got out of his vehicle armed is a possibility, the GJ will explore that I hope.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if that's a guestimate from the cop on the scene or what was found on autopsy. Even numbers like that lead me to believe it was what the officer estimated as Martin's size. The autopsy height and weight would have been more precise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could be.  And, I thanked you earlier for that link.  It was a good find.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I actually found it trying to find something official that indicated what happened to the gun (at the scene, at least). That's a partial report ... I'd like to see the full report but I guess that's not likely if the GJ is going to investigate?


----------



## Emma

Peach said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if that's a guestimate from the cop on the scene or what was found on autopsy. Even numbers like that lead me to believe it was what the officer estimated as Martin's size. The autopsy height and weight would have been more precise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And as Zimmerman did not receive any medical attention, he does not have suffered a fractured skull. He was able to put a bullet in the deceased despite HIS injuries. Arguing the can was swung as deadly force when the killer got out of his vehicle armed is a possibility, the GJ will explore that I hope.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman did receive medical attention by paramedics at the scene. That's where the police (first) heard him say that he was calling for help and no one came. The report doesn't indicate that his injuries (whatever they were) were serious.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, yes they DID take the gun from Zimmerman.  It's right there in the cop report.  They took the gun and it's in evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not clear if they kept the gun upon Zimmerman's release, only that the officer took it at the scene. I can't find anything official that states one way or the other if they kept it and for how long.
Click to expand...


Like most police departments they kept the firearm pending an investigation.


----------



## Sunshine

Si modo said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Zimmerman's going to walk, regardless of whether he's ultimately charged.
> 
> I know what I _believe_ happened. I heard the tapes. I saw the map and the streets and where the initial call was placed and where the shooting occurred. I saw how far Zimmerman followed (chased?) Martin. Two-tenths of a mile isn't very far, but in a situation like this it's far enough for Zimmerman to have heeded the advice of the dispatcher and let the police check Martin out. IMO he went _looking_ for a confrontation. I don't see a 17 year old, 140 lb kid with a can of ice tea as his only weapon initiating an attack on a man who not only outweighs him by a hundred pounds, but is toting a gun besides.
> 
> Zimmerman saw himself as the community protector. He saw someone he didn't recognize, and didn't believe belonged in his neighborhood. He took it upon himself to track this kid, and things spiraled out of control. Once it was over, and Zimmerman realized what he'd done, he had an "oh shit!" moment. He knew that people _had_ to have heard the cries for help. He knew he was fucked if police decided he had no cause to shoot this young man. He also knew the law. So he tells paramedics he called for help and no one came. jmo, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That may have been how it actually happened, Emma. However it happened, this is tragic. This did not need to happen, and it could have been averted at several points. If Zimmerman had simply followed Martin from a distance and observed, nothing more would have happenedIf Martin had not run, and Zimmerman had not chased him, nothing would have happened-Martin would have simply walked to his father's house, and that would have been it. From the facts we have, here's what I think actually  happened-it makes a few assumptions, but not many:
> 
> This went bad, when Martin ran. This was a normal reaction. It was dark, Martin knew someone was following him; that made Martin nervous, and likely angry; he hadn't DONE anything, after all. Martin decided to run. Zimmerman decided to chase him, and caught up to him, probably close to the final scene. The verbal confrontation ensued. Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin. Martin responded like a typical 17 year-old; he was scared, and really angry now. Martin twisted or spun away from Zimmerman, winding up slightly to the side of and behind Zimmerman. The final piece of the puzzle comes into play here; if the iced tea was in a can (I did not know that earlier) here's where it comes into play. A full soft-drink can makes a reasonably effective improvised weapon of sorts, and it was all Martin had. Martin swung his hand, holding the can of tea, at Zimmerman's head, and connected. That was a heavy enough blow knock Zimmerman , already off-balance, to the ground, and accounts for the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head. Now, the tables were turned, and Martin had the advantage over his larger antagonist, now stunned and on his back. Martins's adrenaline was up; he was both scared, and fighting mad-again a normal reaction for a 17 year-old in that situation. He smacked Zimmerman in the face again with the can, trying to end the fight. If only he could put the bigger man out of action for a few seconds, he could get away and sprint to his father's house. Zimmerman , now losing the fight, panicked and yelled for help as Martin hit him again. Now, Zimmerman was desperate too; he reached for his gun, and used his other advantage, size, to push the smaller and lighter Martin off, drew, and fired one shot. A 9mm bullet will kill, but does not have a lot of knock-down effect; Martin hands still in front of him, fell forward to the ground, fatally hit.
> 
> Zimmerman's story about being hit as he got out of the vehicle is most probably false. He *most likely* DID grab Martin, or at least, lunge at him in an attempt to do so, BUT, *unless someone saw that, it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt*, and without that proof, and without further evidence, and with Martin dead and unable to tell the other side of the story, there's nothing else to contradict Zimmerman's account of events that is conclusive. There might be enough evidence to indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is false. in the end, though, Zimmerman may walk free, simply because his lawyer tells the jury the Trayvon Martin in fact DID have a weapon that night-a can of iced tea, and as crazy as it sounds, that just might be how this ends. That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...*because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Click to expand...


The photos of this 'boy' in his football uniform have obviously escaped the masses.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The cop report says Martin was 6', 160 lbs.  Just a point in accuracy.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if that's a guestimate from the cop on the scene or what was found on autopsy. Even numbers like that lead me to believe it was what the officer estimated as Martin's size. The autopsy height and weight would have been more precise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And as Zimmerman did not receive any medical attention,
> 
> ....
Click to expand...

Another lie from you, unless you consider that EMTs cannot provide medical attention.  



> ....  he does not have suffered a fractured skull. He was able to put a bullet in the deceased despite HIS injuries. ....


All within the LAW in Florida in certain circumstances.



> Arguing the can was swung as deadly force when the killer got out of his vehicle armed is a possibility, the GJ will explore that I hope.


What do you mean with "GJ"?


----------



## Emma

Just an aside ...

The officer first on scene walked into this alone. By the time he arrived, he knew there had been shots fired and someone was down.


----------



## bodecea

Si modo said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  You think it's impossible for him to have been able to inflict such substantial harm on another person?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see a reply, an argument from racist stupidity, that a large black buck, with thicker bones and skull, and a more developed muscular structure, than that of a Caucasian man, couldn't inflict harm on the man.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from both the back and front of his head, and was at one point on his back (in grass, so it's unlikely the wound on the back of the head came from a fall, but more likely from a cowardly black jumping him from behind (maybe with a rock) - which is the testimony of the victim).
> 
> No doubt, the black dragged Zimmerman down, perched on top, and proceeded to maul Zimmerman, while the Jewish Mr. Zimmerman cried like a little girl for help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moron.
Click to expand...


It's a troll...don't feed it, it might breed.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, yes they DID take the gun from Zimmerman.  It's right there in the cop report.  They took the gun and it's in evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not clear if they kept the gun upon Zimmerman's release, only that the officer took it at the scene. I can't find anything official that states one way or the other if they kept it and for how long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like most police departments they kept the firearm pending an investigation.
Click to expand...


Maybe, but that's not clear. There is no report released yet that indicates what happened to the gun after the officers left the scene. I certainly hope they did .. if not, that's just one more thing they have to answer to.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Emma said:


> The report doesn't indicate that his injuries (whatever they were) were serious.



The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.

_I know..... they are racists covering it up._


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not clear if they kept the gun upon Zimmerman's release, only that the officer took it at the scene. I can't find anything official that states one way or the other if they kept it and for how long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like most police departments they kept the firearm pending an investigation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe, but that's not clear. There is no report released yet that indicates what happened to the gun after the officers left the scene. I certainly hope they did .. if not, that's just one more thing they have to answer to.
Click to expand...

That report you linked to indicates that they entered the weapon into evidence and labeled "TS-1".


----------



## Sunshine

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly think it's too late in the game to ever truly determine WHO made it physical beyond the shadow of a doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Zimmerman's going to walk, regardless of whether he's ultimately charged.
> 
> I know what I _believe_ happened. I heard the tapes. I saw the map and the streets and where the initial call was placed and where the shooting occurred. I saw how far Zimmerman followed (chased?) Martin. Two-tenths of a mile isn't very far, but in a situation like this it's far enough for Zimmerman to have heeded the advice of the dispatcher and let the police check Martin out. IMO he went _looking_ for a confrontation. I don't see a 17 year old, 140 lb kid with a can of ice tea as his only weapon initiating an attack on a man who not only outweighs him by a hundred pounds, but is toting a gun besides.
> 
> Zimmerman saw himself as the community protector. He saw someone he didn't recognize, and didn't believe belonged in his neighborhood. He took it upon himself to track this kid, and things spiraled out of control. Once it was over, and Zimmerman realized what he'd done, he had an "oh shit!" moment. He knew that people _had_ to have heard the cries for help. He knew he was fucked if police decided he had no cause to shoot this young man. He also knew the law. So he tells paramedics he called for help and no one came. jmo, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may have been how it actually happened, Emma. However it happened, this is tragic. This did not need to happen, and it could have been averted at several points. If Zimmerman had simply followed Martin from a distance and observed, nothing more would have happenedIf Martin had not run, and Zimmerman had not chased him, nothing would have happened-Martin would have simply walked to his father's house, and that would have been it. From the facts we have, here's what I think actually  happened-it makes a few assumptions, but not many:
> 
> This went bad, when Martin ran. This was a normal reaction. It was dark, Martin knew someone was following him; that made Martin nervous, and likely angry; he hadn't DONE anything, after all. Martin decided to run. Zimmerman decided to chase him, and caught up to him, probably close to the final scene. The verbal confrontation ensued. Zimmerman grabbed or tried to grab Martin. Martin responded like a typical 17 year-old; he was scared, and really angry now. Martin twisted or spun away from Zimmerman, winding up slightly to the side of and behind Zimmerman. The final piece of the puzzle comes into play here; if the iced tea was in a can (I did not know that earlier) here's where it comes into play. A full soft-drink can makes a reasonably effective improvised weapon of sorts, and it was all Martin had. Martin swung his hand, holding the can of tea, at Zimmerman's head, and connected. That was a heavy enough blow knock Zimmerman , already off-balance, to the ground, and accounts for the cut on the back of Zimmerman's head. Now, the tables were turned, and Martin had the advantage over his larger antagonist, now stunned and on his back. Martins's adrenaline was up; he was both scared, and fighting mad-again a normal reaction for a 17 year-old in that situation. He smacked Zimmerman in the face again with the can, trying to end the fight. If only he could put the bigger man out of action for a few seconds, he could get away and sprint to his father's house. Zimmerman , now losing the fight, panicked and yelled for help as Martin hit him again. Now, Zimmerman was desperate too; he reached for his gun, and used his other advantage, size, to push the smaller and lighter Martin off, drew, and fired one shot. A 9mm bullet will kill, but does not have a lot of knock-down effect; Martin hands still in front of him, fell forward to the ground, fatally hit.
> 
> Zimmerman's story about being hit as he got out of the vehicle is most probably false. He *most likely* DID grab Martin, or at least, lunge at him in an attempt to do so, BUT, *unless someone saw that, it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt*, and without that proof, and without further evidence, and with Martin dead and unable to tell the other side of the story, there's nothing else to contradict Zimmerman's account of events that is conclusive. There might be enough evidence to indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is false. in the end, though, Zimmerman may walk free, simply because his lawyer tells the jury the Trayvon Martin in fact DID have a weapon that night-a can of iced tea, and as crazy as it sounds, that just might be how this ends. That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...*because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.*
Click to expand...



The concept of neighborhood watch is to WATCH and not act.  I used to have fun with ours when I first moved here.  Of course they didn't know me or my car so they would trail behind me.  BUT I could disappear down a hill and around a curve and be in my garage with the door closed before they even got near my house.  I would see them go back and forth 3 or 4 times, and I knew they were wondering where the car went!    I thought that was pretty fun!


----------



## Si modo

bodecea said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see a reply, an argument from racist stupidity, that a large black buck, with thicker bones and skull, and a more developed muscular structure, than that of a Caucasian man, couldn't inflict harm on the man.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from both the back and front of his head, and was at one point on his back (in grass, so it's unlikely the wound on the back of the head came from a fall, but more likely from a cowardly black jumping him from behind (maybe with a rock) - which is the testimony of the victim).
> 
> No doubt, the black dragged Zimmerman down, perched on top, and proceeded to maul Zimmerman, while the Jewish Mr. Zimmerman cried like a little girl for help.
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a troll...don't feed it, it might breed.
Click to expand...

It's awful.  You're right, though.


----------



## Emma

OODA_Loop said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The report doesn't indicate that his injuries (whatever they were) were serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> _I know..... they are racists covering it up._
Click to expand...


I have no idea if these people are racist or not. Why do you assume they are?


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like most police departments they kept the firearm pending an investigation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, but that's not clear. There is no report released yet that indicates what happened to the gun after the officers left the scene. I certainly hope they did .. if not, that's just one more thing they have to answer to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That report you linked to indicates that they entered the weapon into evidence and labeled "TS-1".
Click to expand...


Yeah, I know. I'd like to know if they kept it after his release from questioning and for how long if they did.


----------



## Emma

How long did it take police to determine that a crime had not been committed?


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, but that's not clear. There is no report released yet that indicates what happened to the gun after the officers left the scene. I certainly hope they did .. if not, that's just one more thing they have to answer to.
> 
> 
> 
> That report you linked to indicates that they entered the weapon into evidence and labeled "TS-1".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I know. I'd like to know if they kept it after his release from questioning and for how long if they did.
Click to expand...

Ah.  I see.  Yes, that would be interesting to know.


----------



## KissMy

The killer was *NOT* White!

It is time to start negging the hell out of people that post bogus white & GOP racist hate thread titles.

We also need to stop posting in them.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if that's a guestimate from the cop on the scene or what was found on autopsy. Even numbers like that lead me to believe it was what the officer estimated as Martin's size. The autopsy height and weight would have been more precise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as Zimmerman did not receive any medical attention,
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another lie from you, unless you consider that EMTs cannot provide medical attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....  he does not have suffered a fractured skull. He was able to put a bullet in the deceased despite HIS injuries. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All within the LAW in Florida in certain circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arguing the can was swung as deadly force when the killer got out of his vehicle armed is a possibility, the GJ will explore that I hope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean with "GJ"?
Click to expand...



GRAND JURY, and a  fractured skull requires more than an EMT.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> He admitted to the shooting so why do you think a test confirming that he made the shot would be necessary?
> 
> And, ONCE AGAIN, the police CANNOT to a BAC on anyone unless they have probable cause or the subject consents to it.
> 
> THAT is the LAW in ALL states as it is a Constitutional right.


Correct. 

And that would be in the context of probable cause where a law was possibly violated, in this case theres not only no PC, but theres no potential broken state law to begin with. 



> As I understand it, what's unique about this law is there is no duty to retreat at any point.



Its the legal presumption that the defendant had a reasonable fear that deadly force was necessary and the [legal] presumption that the intruder intended to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence. In addition, the defender/gun owner has no duty to retreat, regardless of where he is attacked, so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs. 

Obviously, when one acts in accordance with the law, hes not subject to investigation.


----------



## Peach

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> He admitted to the shooting so why do you think a test confirming that he made the shot would be necessary?
> 
> And, ONCE AGAIN, the police CANNOT to a BAC on anyone unless they have probable cause or the subject consents to it.
> 
> THAT is the LAW in ALL states as it is a Constitutional right.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> And that would be in the context of probable cause where a law was possibly violated, in this case theres not only no PC, but theres no potential broken state law to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand it, what's unique about this law is there is no duty to retreat at any point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the legal presumption that the defendant had a reasonable fear that deadly force was necessary and the [legal] presumption that the intruder intended to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence. In addition, the defender/gun owner has no duty to retreat, regardless of where he is attacked, so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs.
> 
> Obviously, when one acts in accordance with the law, hes not subject to investigation.
Click to expand...


AGAIN:

A person is justified in using force, *except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the others imminent use of unlawful force. *However,* a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1)&#8195;He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;* or
(2)&#8195;Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.


----------



## MarcATL

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> He admitted to the shooting so why do you think a test confirming that he made the shot would be necessary?
> 
> And, ONCE AGAIN, the police CANNOT to a BAC on anyone unless they have probable cause or the subject consents to it.
> 
> THAT is the LAW in ALL states as it is a Constitutional right.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> And that would be in the context of probable cause where a law was possibly violated, in this case there&#8217;s not only no PC, but there&#8217;s no potential broken state law to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand it, what's unique about this law is there is no duty to retreat at any point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It&#8217;s the legal &#8220;presumption that the defendant had a reasonable fear that deadly force was necessary and the [legal] *presumption that the intruder intended to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence. I*n addition, the defender/gun owner has no duty to retreat, regardless of where he is attacked, so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs.&#8221;
> 
> Obviously, when one acts in accordance with the law, he&#8217;s not subject to investigation.
Click to expand...

Hey, whoah, waitaminutenow...."intruder?" What intruder?


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He admitted to the shooting so why do you think a test confirming that he made the shot would be necessary?
> 
> And, ONCE AGAIN, the police CANNOT to a BAC on anyone unless they have probable cause or the subject consents to it.
> 
> THAT is the LAW in ALL states as it is a Constitutional right.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> And that would be in the context of probable cause where a law was possibly violated, in this case theres not only no PC, but theres no potential broken state law to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand it, what's unique about this law is there is no duty to retreat at any point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the legal presumption that the defendant had a reasonable fear that deadly force was necessary and the [legal] presumption that the intruder intended to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence. In addition, the defender/gun owner has no duty to retreat, regardless of where he is attacked, so long as he is in a place where he is lawfully entitled to be when the danger occurs.
> 
> Obviously, when one acts in accordance with the law, hes not subject to investigation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ....
> (2)&#8195;Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
Click to expand...

Section 776.013

(1)&#8195;A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

......

(3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.​


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as Zimmerman did not receive any medical attention,
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie from you, unless you consider that EMTs cannot provide medical attention.
> 
> All within the LAW in Florida in certain circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arguing the can was swung as deadly force when the killer got out of his vehicle armed is a possibility, the GJ will explore that I hope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean with "GJ"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> GRAND JURY, and a  fractured skull requires more than an EMT.
Click to expand...



What the fuck are you talking about?  Did the drugs you are on make you hallucinate a fractured skull?


----------



## Crackerjack

OODA_Loop said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The report doesn't indicate that his injuries (whatever they were) were serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The report doesn't indicate that his injuries (whatever they were) were serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Good luck getting one from him.  I've asked, too.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie from you, unless you consider that EMTs cannot provide medical attention.
> 
> All within the LAW in Florida in certain circumstances.
> 
> What do you mean with "GJ"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GRAND JURY, and a  fractured skull requires more than an EMT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck are you talking about?  Did the drugs you are on make you hallucinate a fractured skull?
Click to expand...


ONE scenario posited; also, there seemed to be probable cause a crime had been committed. A DEAD BODY.  *Why wasn't Zimmerman taken into custody & TESTED? THOSE are my QUESTIONS. *


----------



## Ravi

Liability said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he was.  It was just AN example of the law of justification.
> 
> And frankly, I don't know that Zimmerman has ANY valid claim (even a color-able one) to the defense of justification or necessity.
> 
> All I WAS saying is that there ARE situations where even though the cops know full well that a person pulled the trigger, they also see no valid probable cause for an arrest.  Justification (self defense or defense of another) is but one set of examples of that principle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The author of this law (name escapes me, I linked it earlier) said that it was intended to allow deadly force in situations where one felt an imminent threat of death or bodily harm, or to protect another from same, or if witnessing ... a felony? Can't recall what the specifics are there. In any case, he said that by following Martin, Zimmerman negated his defense by this law. fwiw
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
Click to expand...

No, this law removed that obligation. I'm kind of surprised to see that you don't have your facts in a row.


----------



## Sunshine

So who is going to the 'million hoodie march'?


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> GRAND JURY, and a  fractured skull requires more than an EMT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck are you talking about?  Did the drugs you are on make you hallucinate a fractured skull?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ONE scenario posited; also, there seemed to be probable cause a crime had been committed. A DEAD BODY.  *Why wasn't Zimmerman taken into custody & TESTED? THOSE are my QUESTIONS. *
Click to expand...

What fractured skull are you talking about?  What report said that Zimmerman had one?

Tested for what?  For alcohol?  I've told you why at least four times now.  IT IS ILLEGAL to do so without consent or probable cause.

And, Zimmerman WAS taken into custody.  If you had read the cop report, the link to which I have supplied to you several times as well, you would know that he was cuffed, taken into custody, interrogated, THEN released.

Are you going to continue with such dishonesty?  Asking the same questions _ad nauseum_ when you have been given the answers.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie from you, unless you consider that EMTs cannot provide medical attention.
> 
> All within the LAW in Florida in certain circumstances.
> 
> What do you mean with "GJ"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GRAND JURY, and a  fractured skull requires more than an EMT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck are you talking about?  Did the drugs you are on make you hallucinate a fractured skull?
Click to expand...


From Gadfly Si, you responded:

That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.


----------



## Ravi

High_Gravity said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if that's true.  A neighborhood watch guy might be well within his legal rights to follow a person for any reason.  And if (I have no idea if the "if" is valid or not), but IF the situation then escalates, the fact that he had followed him should have no bearing on the matter.
> 
> I do know that in NY, before a person permitted to employ deadly physical force in reliance on the law of "justification," among other things, the person is obligated to retreat if he can do so in complete safety (except for cops or folks inside their own homes where there is no duty to retreat).  I don't know if FL has a similar provision in their law.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Florida.  They have stand your ground laws.
> 
> "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
> 
> Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do these stand your ground laws apply to minors? I heard someone say they don't.
Click to expand...

 That was me, and I was wrong. I read it wrong....it doesn't apply to one's own children or grandchildren. Other peoples children or grandchildren are fair game.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> GRAND JURY, and a  fractured skull requires more than an EMT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck are you talking about?  Did the drugs you are on make you hallucinate a fractured skull?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From Gadfly Si, you responded:
> 
> That ONE, seemingly insignificant detail, after all Zimmerman did wrong, might turn the case in his favor...because the end of a twelve oz aluminum can full of liquid, swung with the strength of even a 140 lb. kid, is hard enough, and has enough weight behind it, to fracture a human skull and kill, as any forensic pathologist can demonstrate.
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge, Gadfly was not a witness, nor did he make any statement to the cops.  So, if he said that Zimmerman had a fractured skull and you believed that without asking for any support, I am sorry that you are that gullible to what is typed on the net by an anonymous poster.

And, those are not MY words you are saying I responded with.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the fuck are you talking about?  Did the drugs you are on make you hallucinate a fractured skull?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONE scenario posited; also, there seemed to be probable cause a crime had been committed. A DEAD BODY.  *Why wasn't Zimmerman taken into custody & TESTED? THOSE are my QUESTIONS. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What fractured skull are you talking about?  What report said that Zimmerman had one?
> 
> Tested for what?  For alcohol?  I've told you why at least four times now.  IT IS ILLEGAL to do so without consent or probable cause.
> 
> And, Zimmerman WAS taken into custody.  If you had read the cop report, the link to which I have supplied to you several times as well, you would know that he was cuffed, taken into custody, interrogated, THEN released.
> 
> Are you going to continue with such dishonesty?  Asking the same questions _ad nauseum_ when you have been given the answers.
Click to expand...



Ok, Si, the police had probable cause to take him into custody, but NOT to get a BAC or drug test. Even ASKING would have been "illegal". Thank you for this information.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> And, those are not MY words you are saying I responded with.



Gadfly was just making the case that a can full of liquid could be used as a weapon.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE scenario posited; also, there seemed to be probable cause a crime had been committed. A DEAD BODY.  *Why wasn't Zimmerman taken into custody & TESTED? THOSE are my QUESTIONS. *
> 
> 
> 
> What fractured skull are you talking about?  What report said that Zimmerman had one?
> 
> Tested for what?  For alcohol?  I've told you why at least four times now.  IT IS ILLEGAL to do so without consent or probable cause.
> 
> And, Zimmerman WAS taken into custody.  If you had read the cop report, the link to which I have supplied to you several times as well, you would know that he was cuffed, taken into custody, interrogated, THEN released.
> 
> Are you going to continue with such dishonesty?  Asking the same questions _ad nauseum_ when you have been given the answers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, Si, the police had probable cause to take him into custody, but NOT to get a BAC or drug test. Even ASKING would have been "illegal". Thank you for this information.
Click to expand...

I never said asking was illegal.  They had probable cause to take him into custody with respect to the shooting.  Probable cause MUST relate to the investigation/test to be done.  So, he shot someone and they took him into custody and questioned him about it.

There is nothing on the report to indicate that the cops had any probable cause to investigate/test for alcohol.  The probable cause MUST relate to the investigation/test being done.  Thus, no probable cause for intoxication, no test for it.

It's the LAW, and a Constitutional one at that.

They can ask all they want.  That is not illegal, unless the person requests an attorney.

All this is contained in the cop report that you should read.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, those are not MY words you are saying I responded with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadfly was just making the case that a can full of liquid could be used as a weapon.
Click to expand...

Yes, it could be.

(And, I am not too thrilled with posters attributing words to me that I never typed.  Not you, of course.)


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> Hey, whoah, waitaminutenow...."intruder?" What intruder?



Anyone who intrudes into a place where the defender has a right to be; the purpose of the &#8216;stand your ground&#8217; statute is to expand the doctrine outside of one&#8217;s dwelling. 



> ONE scenario posited; also, there seemed to be probable cause a crime had been committed. A DEAD BODY.



In the context of the statute, a dead body is taken into consideration as a likely outcome where deadly force is used in self-defense, and consequently no investigation warranted. 



> Why wasn't Zimmerman taken into custody & TESTED? THOSE are my QUESTIONS.



Because local law enforcement followed the law, it&#8217;s incumbent upon law enforcement officials to understand the law and know when a crime was possibly committed, and when not; in this case the latter.


----------



## Amelia

If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Amelia said:


> If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.



There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.


----------



## Dante

if, if, if...


----------



## Peach

uptownlivin90 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.
Click to expand...


As there is suspicion Breitbart was murdered among a few board posters, and much speculation about the armed Zimmerman leaving his vehicle & "defending himself" from deadly force from the unarmed victim,the conclusion of many that young Tyler Clementi's suicide is unrelated to the "harmless pranks" of Dharun Ravi......................according to some. At least Davi has been convicted.


----------



## The Gadfly

uptownlivin90 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.
Click to expand...

No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.


----------



## saveliberty

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> *Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same*?
Click to expand...


Black guy in a gated community you say?  That sounds like Tiger Woods, so yes it might have been the same.

Doesn't make it any more right.


----------



## The Gadfly

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE scenario posited; also, there seemed to be probable cause a crime had been committed. A DEAD BODY.  *Why wasn't Zimmerman taken into custody & TESTED? THOSE are my QUESTIONS. *
> 
> 
> 
> What fractured skull are you talking about?  What report said that Zimmerman had one?
> 
> Tested for what?  For alcohol?  I've told you why at least four times now.  IT IS ILLEGAL to do so without consent or probable cause.
> 
> And, Zimmerman WAS taken into custody.  If you had read the cop report, the link to which I have supplied to you several times as well, you would know that he was cuffed, taken into custody, interrogated, THEN released.
> 
> Are you going to continue with such dishonesty?  Asking the same questions _ad nauseum_ when you have been given the answers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, Si, the police had probable cause to take him into custody, but NOT to get a BAC or drug test. Even ASKING would have been "illegal". Thank you for this information.
Click to expand...

Peach, they DID take Zimmerman into custody; handcuffed him, and took him to the station for questioning. As for all those tests, if all those were run on every person arrested in conjunction with a homicide (justified or not) well, I'm afraid no crime lab anywhere would ever get anything else done. IT's NOT routine to do all that in each and every case (no matter how many episodes of CSI you've watched). You just had an attorney (CCJ) explain that to you. Now let it go. Please.


----------



## Amelia

The Gadfly said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.
Click to expand...



I don't recall an official report on the content of his pockets but the news stories have told it that way:



> "What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."



Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest - Yahoo! News


----------



## Dante

The Gadfly said:


> tale Zimmerman into custody; handcuffed him, and took him to the station for questioning.



where can I find a source for this?


----------



## Dante

saveliberty said:


> Black guy in a gated community you say?



except I heard the gated community was racially mixed..about 20% Black, 20% Hispanic, 40% Anglo/White, and the rest Asian and others.


----------



## saveliberty

Maybe at night, but during the day there are way more Hispanic than that.


----------



## The Gadfly

Dante said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> tale Zimmerman into custody; handcuffed him, and took him to the station for questioning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> where can I find a source for this?
Click to expand...


Emma linked a copy of the police report a few pages back. It's in there.


----------



## Crackerjack

Police chief steps aside over Trayvon Martin case


----------



## Emma

Amelia said:


> If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.



Good point. Where _was_ the tea, candy and his cell phone found in relation to his body?


----------



## Si modo

Dante said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> tale Zimmerman into custody; handcuffed him, and took him to the station for questioning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> where can I find a source for this?
Click to expand...

Here you go, Dante.

It's a PDF of the report by the cops first on the scene.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


----------



## uptownlivin90

Ariux said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  You think it's impossible for him to have been able to inflict such substantial harm on another person?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see a reply, an argument from racist stupidity, that a large black buck, with thicker bones and skull, and a more developed muscular structure, than that of a Caucasian man, couldn't inflict harm on the man.
> 
> Zimmerman was bleeding from both the back and front of his head, and was at one point on his back (in grass, so it's unlikely the wound on the back of the head came from a fall, but more likely from a cowardly black jumping him from behind (maybe with a rock) - which is the testimony of the victim).
> 
> No doubt, the black dragged Zimmerman down, perched on top, and proceeded to maul Zimmerman, while the Jewish Mr. Zimmerman cried like a little girl for help.
Click to expand...


Sorry to interject... but...

Large black buck?
Thicker bones?
Muscular structure?
Perched on top?
Cried like girl?

You're getting off on this discussion aren't you... ya sick homotroll freak?


----------



## uptownlivin90

Emma said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Where _was_ the tea, candy and his cell phone found in relation to his body?
Click to expand...


From all the posters who have insisted that trayvon beat the brakes off zImmerman with it I assumed they found it in the grass. Never thought to question that.


----------



## Dante

win32/Sirefef.P

just kidding. 


Si modo said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> tale Zimmerman into custody; handcuffed him, and took him to the station for questioning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> where can I find a source for this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here you go, Dante.
> 
> It's a PDF of the report by the cops first on the scene.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Click to expand...


----------



## saveliberty

I can wait until the police investigation is over.  Hope Florida can.


----------



## JimBowie1958

The Gadfly said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the reports are accurate that the can of tea was found in Trayvon's pocket, then perhaps those promoting the theory that Trayvon used the tea as a weapon will present their ideas about how it got back in his pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.
Click to expand...


Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?

Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.

This was obviously self defense.


----------



## JimBowie1958

uptownlivin90 said:


> Yeup... so by that account if I was standing outside in the Sanford neighborhood watching the neighborhood watch guy deliberately killing unarmed children and I had quick access to a gun... I could have assumed he was going to kill another unarmed child, aimed the gun, and splattered his filthy brains on a nearby wall?



God, you dont know the first damn thing about selfdefense and the need for imminent threat.

No wonder you cant tell your ass from a hole in the ground.


----------



## saveliberty

Why would he need tea?  Because he liked it?  

Were you there during the incident?  How do you know the sequence or cause of injury?


----------



## Si modo

JimBowie1958 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
Click to expand...

According to the police report, Martin is 6', 160 lbs.


----------



## JimBowie1958

High_Gravity said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It certainly doesn't mean you will necessarily be arrested.
> 
> Simple hypothetical.  *Say you were in France the other day when that al qaeda piece of shit was deliberately killing little children.  You happened to have quick access to a gun.  Before he can kill the next child, as he is about to do so, you carefully aim, pull the trigger and splatter is filthy brains on a nearby wall. *
> 
> Did you commit a crime?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Should you be arrested?
> 
> Nope.
> 
> The point is:  not only is self defense or defense of another in some situations a legal defense to a criminal charge, sometimes it even suffices to avoid any arrest in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeup... so by that account if I was standing outside in the Sanford neighborhood watching the neighborhood watch guy deliberately killing unarmed children and I had quick access to a gun... I could have assumed he was going to kill another unarmed child, aimed the gun, and splattered his filthy brains on a nearby wall?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sad thing is if you were there and did that, you would more than likely be in jail for murder right now as we speak.
Click to expand...


As he should since his scenario presents no IMMENENT THREAT, duh.


----------



## Emma

JimBowie1958 said:


> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?


Do you just pull this shit out of your ass? Even the police officer's guestimate didn't have Martin that big.


----------



## Amelia

JimBowie1958 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?*
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
Click to expand...



Link?


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to work around that. I'm sure of it.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
Click to expand...

Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.

But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.


----------



## Amelia

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...



One report put Martin's weight at 160 pounds.

So Zimmerman would only have had 90 pounds on him.  

Fair fight.  /sarcasm


----------



## Si modo

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's NOT, IF the can of tea was in fact found in Martin's pocket. Does anyone have a link that says exactly where the can of tea was found? Was it in Martin's hand, on the ground, or in his pocket? I'm not saying it WASN'T in his pocket, just that I had not seen any report to that effect until Amelia just posted that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...

According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.


----------



## JimBowie1958

High_Gravity said:


> Your wasting your time bro, all he's going to say if Trayvon should not have been there and Zimmerman was well within his rights to shoot him.



Yeah the FACTS just suck for you libtards, dont they?


----------



## Crackerjack

Amelia said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One report put Martin's weight at 160 pounds.
> 
> So Zimmerman would only have had 90 pounds on him.
> 
> Fair fight.  /sarcasm
Click to expand...

I bet a libtard mis-measured Martin's weight.


----------



## Dante

> from the police report:
> 
> *"I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose aand back of his head."
> 
> "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state 'I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.' At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."*


  just the facts ma'am

but later we have somebody not there .. an attention getter saying things



> In Florida, once self-defense is invoked, *the burden is on the prosecution to disprove the claim.*
> 
> (The police report on the shooting refers to it as an &#8220;unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.&#8221
> 
> Still, in not arresting Zimmerman, local officials have pointed to Florida&#8217;s wide definition of self-defense.
> 
> The 23 States That Have Sweeping Self-Defense Laws Just Like Florida&#8217;s - ProPublica
> 
> 
> Earlier Tuesday, an attorney for Martin's family revealed the teenager told his girlfriend just moments before he was killed that he was being followed.
> 
> "'Oh he's right behind me, he's right behind me again,'" 17-year-old Trayvon Martin told his girlfriend on his cellphone, attorney Benjamin Crump said. The girl later heard Martin say, "Why are you following me?" Another man asked, "What are you doing around here?'" Crump said. Crump told reporters Tuesday Martin cried out when a man bearing a 9mm handgun came at him. Police said Zimmerman, who was found bleeding from his nose and the back of his head, told authorities he yelled out for help before shooting Martin.
> 
> "She says: 'Run.' He says, 'I'm not going to run, I'm just going to walk fast,'" Crump said, quoting the girl. After Martin encountered Zimmerman, the girl thought she heard a scuffle "because his voice changes like something interrupted his speech," Crump said. The phone call ended before the girl heard gunshots.
> 
> The last call was at 7:12 p.m. Police arrived at 7:17 p.m. to find Martin lying face down on the ground. Zimmerman was handcuffed after police arrived and taken into custody for questioning, but was released by police without being charged. Police have interviewed Zimmerman twice since then. Crump called the treatment patently unfair...
> 
> Rights leaders to keep up pressure in Florida shooting : News : miNBCnews.com


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
Click to expand...

Do they still list weight on DL's in Florida?  I've noticed that some states have gotten away from that.


----------



## Si modo

Amelia said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One report put Martin's weight at 160 pounds.
> 
> So Zimmerman would only have had 90 pounds on him.
> 
> Fair fight.  /sarcasm
Click to expand...

 A 6' tall high school football player/athlete at 160 lbs vs. a 5'9" fatter and older guy, my money would be on the kid taking him in a flash.  IF there was a physical altercation.  Zimmerman had wounds, though, according to the police report.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
Click to expand...


I doubt he had ID ... it was reported he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.


----------



## uptownlivin90

JimBowie1958 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your wasting your time bro, all he's going to say if Trayvon should not have been there and Zimmerman was well within his rights to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the FACTS just suck for you libtards, dont they?
Click to expand...


If you call putting trayvon martin at almost 200 pounds when he's somehwere between 140 and 160 "facts" yes YOU sure do suck. 



Ill leave the libtard thing alone. You're living proof that stupidity is bipartisan.


----------



## Dante

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... *he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.*
Click to expand...


_*huh? *_ source please....


----------



## uptownlivin90

Si modo said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One report put Martin's weight at 160 pounds.
> 
> So Zimmerman would only have had 90 pounds on him.
> 
> Fair fight.  /sarcasm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A 6' tall high school football player/athlete at 160 lbs vs. a 5'9" fatter and older guy, my money would be on the kid taking him in a flash.  IF there was a physical altercation.  Zimmerman had wounds, though, according to the police report.
Click to expand...


Zimmy wasn't that much older... even if trayvon did whoop on zimmy though, that doesn't mean trayvon initiated the altercation in the first place. Most sensible people realize self-defense works both ways in this case.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... it was reported he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.
Click to expand...

But, the police report has the kid's name on there as the victim.  His full name.


----------



## Dante

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... it was reported he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, the police report has the kid's name on there as the victim.  His full name.
Click to expand...


yes


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Martin need a can of tea when he was a 6'3" nearly 200 pound senior highschool football player?
> 
> Zimmerman was just a overweight punching bag for Martin which is why he was bleeding not Martin prior to the shot.
> 
> This was obviously self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
Click to expand...


Yeah, a senior on the football team at only 6 foot? I kinda doubt that. And he took Zimmerman down pretty quick for a person giving up 100 pounds, supposedly.

A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities. 

Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation


> "The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
> 
> John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
> 
> "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."



Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com



> Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2&#8221; football player.



Cant find the link, but I have read that Martin was 6''2" last year and he grew since then.


----------



## JimBowie1958

uptownlivin90 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> One report put Martin's weight at 160 pounds.
> 
> So Zimmerman would only have had 90 pounds on him.
> 
> Fair fight.  /sarcasm
> 
> 
> 
> A 6' tall high school football player/athlete at 160 lbs vs. a 5'9" fatter and older guy, my money would be on the kid taking him in a flash.  IF there was a physical altercation.  Zimmerman had wounds, though, according to the police report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmy wasn't that much older... even if trayvon did whoop on zimmy though, that doesn't mean trayvon initiated the altercation in the first place. Most sensible people realize self-defense works both ways in this case.
Click to expand...


That is true, dude, it does work both ways, but the presumption of innosence does not.

Whether Martin lived or Zimmerman, there would have not been enough evidence in mu opinion to charge either one of them.


----------



## Si modo

uptownlivin90 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> One report put Martin's weight at 160 pounds.
> 
> So Zimmerman would only have had 90 pounds on him.
> 
> Fair fight.  /sarcasm
> 
> 
> 
> A 6' tall high school football player/athlete at 160 lbs vs. a 5'9" fatter and older guy, my money would be on the kid taking him in a flash.  IF there was a physical altercation.  Zimmerman had wounds, though, according to the police report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmy wasn't that much older... even if trayvon did whoop on zimmy though, that doesn't mean trayvon initiated the altercation in the first place. Most sensible people realize self-defense works both ways in this case.
Click to expand...

Well, as I have no idea what happened when they were face to face, and few actually do, I never said anything about who did what.

Here's what we know about that:  Zimmerman had grass stains on his back, a witness saw him on his back before the gunshot, he had wounds on his head that the EMTs treated at the scene, he is 5'9" and fat (the pic of him), and he is 28.  The Martin boy is 6', 160 lbs, a high school football player and athlete, he asked Zimmerman why he was following him, then his phone went dead, he was fatally shot, and he was found face down with his arms beneath him.

He had a bag of Skittles and a can if iced tea (but not mentioned in the report, as far as I could see).

That's what we know.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... it was reported he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, the police report has the kid's name on there as the victim.  His full name.
Click to expand...



Look up the article on ABC:

"Police Chief In Martin Case Resigns 'Temporarily'" 
 It has been widely reported that Travon wasn't properly identified at the scene.

I'm sorry I can't post a link I'm posting on my cellphone. If you find it id appreciate it if you'd post it for me si. Also could you post the police report ? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing it yet.


----------



## uptownlivin90

JimBowie1958 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, a senior on the football team at only 6 foot? I kinda doubt that. And he took Zimmerman down pretty quick for a person giving up 100 pounds, supposedly.
> 
> A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
> 
> Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
> 
> 
> 
> "The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
> 
> John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
> 
> "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2 football player.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cant find the link, but I have read that Martin was 6''2" last year and he grew since then.
Click to expand...


For the record you don't have to be tall to play football. Ray Rice is 5'6 or 5'7 I believe and he's pro.


----------



## Si modo

uptownlivin90 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... it was reported he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.
> 
> 
> 
> But, the police report has the kid's name on there as the victim.  His full name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Look up the article on ABC:
> 
> "Police Chief In Martin Case Resigns 'Temporarily'"
> It has been widely reported that Travon wasn't properly identified at the scene.
> 
> I'm sorry I can't post a link I'm posting on my cellphone. If you find it id appreciate it if you'd post it for me si. Also could you post the police report ? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing it yet.
Click to expand...

No prob.

I'll believe a PDF of the cop report before I'll believe a journalist.  Here it is:

cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

The cops arrived at 19:17 on 2/26, and completed their part (attempted resuscitation, cordoning the crime scene, crime scene contamination log, arrest of Zimmerman, transport to station, interrogation, entry of evidence, and completion of report, etc.) at 03:07 on 2/27.  The report include the boy's entire name, so I imagine they knew the name of the boy before they made the report at 03:07.


----------



## Emma

Dante said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... *he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _*huh? *_ source please....
Click to expand...

Multiple sources ... From the NYT: 

 That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought  that he was missing, according to the familys lawyer, Benjamin Crump,  but the boys body had actually been taken to the medical examiners  office and listed as a John Doe. 



 The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911.  The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent  officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed  him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.


----------



## Emma

Seems Georgie likes to beat up on women, too: 

Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman: New details in George Zimmerman domestic violence petitions - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... *he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*huh? *_ source please....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Multiple sources ... From the NYT:
> 
> That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought  that he was missing, according to the familys lawyer, Benjamin Crump,  but the boys body had actually been taken to the medical examiners  office and listed as a John Doe.
> 
> 
> 
> The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911.  The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent  officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed  him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.
Click to expand...

That's probably because the father wasn't at his home, I'm assuming the same home that is on the boy's DL.  The father was at his fiancee's home.  The authorities would not have known that.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, the police report has the kid's name on there as the victim.  His full name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look up the article on ABC:
> 
> "Police Chief In Martin Case Resigns 'Temporarily'"
> It has been widely reported that Travon wasn't properly identified at the scene.
> 
> I'm sorry I can't post a link I'm posting on my cellphone. If you find it id appreciate it if you'd post it for me si. Also could you post the police report ? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing it yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No prob.
> 
> I'll believe a PDF of the cop report before I'll believe a journalist.  Here it is:
> 
> cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> The cops arrived at 19:17 on 2/26, and completed their part (attempted resuscitation, cordoning the crime scene, crime scene contamination log, arrest of Zimmerman, transport to station, interrogation, entry of evidence, and completion of report, etc.) at 03:07 on 2/27.  The report include the boy's entire name, so I imagine they knew the name of the boy before they made the report at 03:07.
Click to expand...


Those were printed on 2/28, a day after Martin's father says he got the visit from the police with a photo to ID his son, and when police publicly released his name. There's no way of knowing when his name was entered on that form.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Seems Georgie likes to beat up on women, too:
> 
> Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman: New details in George Zimmerman domestic violence petitions - Orlando Sentinel


Yeah, he's a stellar guy.  Not.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*huh? *_ source please....
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple sources ... From the NYT:
> 
> That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought  that he was missing, according to the familys lawyer, Benjamin Crump,  but the boys body had actually been taken to the medical examiners  office and listed as a John Doe.
> 
> 
> The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911.  The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent  officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed  him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's probably because the father wasn't at his home, I'm assuming the same home that is on the boy's DL.  The father was at his fiancee's home.  The authorities would not have known that.
Click to expand...


They would since he called after Trayvon didn't return.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look up the article on ABC:
> 
> "Police Chief In Martin Case Resigns 'Temporarily'"
> It has been widely reported that Travon wasn't properly identified at the scene.
> 
> I'm sorry I can't post a link I'm posting on my cellphone. If you find it id appreciate it if you'd post it for me si. Also could you post the police report ? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> No prob.
> 
> I'll believe a PDF of the cop report before I'll believe a journalist.  Here it is:
> 
> cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> The cops arrived at 19:17 on 2/26, and completed their part (attempted resuscitation, cordoning the crime scene, crime scene contamination log, arrest of Zimmerman, transport to station, interrogation, entry of evidence, and completion of report, etc.) at 03:07 on 2/27.  The report include the boy's entire name, so I imagine they knew the name of the boy before they made the report at 03:07.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those were printed on 2/28, a day after Martin's father says he got the visit from the police with a photo to ID his son, and when police publicly released his name. There's no way of knowing when his name was entered on that form.
Click to expand...

Could be, but I am pretty sure the fields for time and date in cop reports are filled electronically.  I know they are here and I imagine the software for cop reports are pretty similar across jurisdictions.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple sources ... From the NYT:
> 
> That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought  that he was missing, according to the family&#8217;s lawyer, Benjamin Crump,  but the boy&#8217;s body had actually been taken to the medical examiner&#8217;s  office and listed as a John Doe.
> 
> 
> The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911.  The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent  officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed  him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably because the father wasn't at his home, I'm assuming the same home that is on the boy's DL.  The father was at his fiancee's home.  The authorities would not have known that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They would since he called after Trayvon didn't return.
Click to expand...

And, it's highly probable that that's when they found out, of course, no?


----------



## Zoom

Si modo said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABS, calm down. A dispatcher's advice is just that, advice, not a legal order that anyone must obey. The real first question, again, is did Zimmerman chase Martin when he apparently ran, without Martin having committed a crime? Even that is NOT criminal, but it IS poor judgement. THe main question, though, is what happened next. When Martin struck Zimmerman (it's reasonably conclusive that he did so) did he have sufficient LAWFUL cause to do so? Absent some major fact we don't know, that's what this case turns on (if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin had lawful cause to strike Zimmerman.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That white guy stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.
Click to expand...


The guy who followed, stalked and caught up to a kid 100 pounds lighter than him and he was armed, was screaming for help? 

Are you fucking serious here or is this a far far right wing meltdown?


----------



## uptownlivin90

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*huh? *_ source please....
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple sources ... From the NYT:
> 
> That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought  that he was missing, according to the familys lawyer, Benjamin Crump,  but the boys body had actually been taken to the medical examiners  office and listed as a John Doe.
> 
> 
> 
> The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911.  The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent  officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed  him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's probably because the father wasn't at his home, I'm assuming the same home that is on the boy's DL.  The father was at his fiancee's home.  The authorities would not have known that.
Click to expand...

Quick question si I can't read the PDF at this moment but is there any where where the police record how exactly they identified Trayvon Martin's body? Your guess and mine would be drivers lisence. But does the report ever mention a wallet? Does it list what was on his person? Ill read the report when I get back home tomorrow... just a quick question.


----------



## Crackerjack

Emma said:


> Seems Georgie likes to beat up on women, too:
> 
> Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman: New details in George Zimmerman domestic violence petitions - Orlando Sentinel


To be fair, both he and his ex appear to have been mutually combative.  The court granted both of them protective orders against each other, so it would seem that the judge believed that they were both pretty awful to each other.

Sure, he's probably no saint, but it looks like he was getting as good as he gave.


----------



## Emma

uptownlivin90 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a senior on the football team at only 6 foot? I kinda doubt that. And he took Zimmerman down pretty quick for a person giving up 100 pounds, supposedly.
> 
> A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
> 
> Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2 football player.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cant find the link, but I have read that Martin was 6''2" last year and he grew since then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the record you don't have to be tall to play football. Ray Rice is 5'6 or 5'7 I believe and he's pro.
Click to expand...


Martin was a junior, and reports say he played football for a community league. That photo of him in his uniform isn't from his high school (either one). His uniforms match those of two teams of the South Florida Youth Football League (bulldogs and wolverines).


----------



## Zoom

The Infidel said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That *white guy* stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
Click to expand...


Oh he is one of yours.  No doubt.


----------



## Si modo

uptownlivin90 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple sources ... From the NYT:
> 
> That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought  that he was missing, according to the familys lawyer, Benjamin Crump,  but the boys body had actually been taken to the medical examiners  office and listed as a John Doe.
> 
> 
> 
> The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911.  The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent  officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed  him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably because the father wasn't at his home, I'm assuming the same home that is on the boy's DL.  The father was at his fiancee's home.  The authorities would not have known that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quick question si I can't read the PDF at this moment but is there any where where the police record how exactly they identified Trayvon Martin's body? Your guess and mine would be drivers lisence. But does the report ever mention a wallet? Does it list what was on his person? Ill read the report when I get back home tomorrow... just a quick question.
Click to expand...

I don't see that a wallet is mentioned.  That is an assumption of mine and may be wrong.  The kid may only have taken some money with him to the store and left the wallet at his father's fiancee's home, but that seems not so common a practice.


----------



## Zoom

JimBowie1958 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, a senior on the football team at only 6 foot? I kinda doubt that. And he took Zimmerman down pretty quick for a person giving up 100 pounds, supposedly.
> 
> A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
> 
> Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
> 
> 
> 
> "The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
> 
> John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
> 
> "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2 football player.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cant find the link, but I have read that Martin was 6''2*" last year and he grew since then.
Click to expand...


Then you are a fucking liar.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Emma said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a senior on the football team at only 6 foot? I kinda doubt that. And he took Zimmerman down pretty quick for a person giving up 100 pounds, supposedly.
> 
> A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
> 
> Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
> 
> 
> Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com
> 
> Cant find the link, but I have read that Martin was 6''2" last year and he grew since then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record you don't have to be tall to play football. Ray Rice is 5'6 or 5'7 I believe and he's pro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Martin was a junior, and reports say he played football for a community league. That photo of him in his uniform isn't from his high school (either one). His uniforms match those of two teams of the South Florida Youth Football League (bulldogs and wolverines).
Click to expand...


Lord Jesus we're just as confused on this board as the media. I knew he looked rather young in those pictures.


----------



## Emma

uptownlivin90 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple sources ... From the NYT:
> 
> That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought  that he was missing, according to the family&#8217;s lawyer, Benjamin Crump,  but the boy&#8217;s body had actually been taken to the medical examiner&#8217;s  office and listed as a John Doe.
> 
> 
> 
> The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911.  The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent  officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed  him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably because the father wasn't at his home, I'm assuming the same home that is on the boy's DL.  The father was at his fiancee's home.  The authorities would not have known that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quick question si I can't read the PDF at this moment but is there any where where the police record how exactly they identified Trayvon Martin's body? Your guess and mine would be drivers lisence. But does the report ever mention a wallet? Does it list what was on his person? Ill read the report when I get back home tomorrow... just a quick question.
Click to expand...

In the report, they list DL state for Zimmerman but not for Martin. I don't think we can assume this information for Martin was completed the night of the shooting. 

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

ETA: Martin's has place of birth. That wouldn't be listed on his DL. I don't think he had ID on him at the time.


----------



## yidnar

Zoom said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That *white guy* stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh he is one of yours.  No doubt.
Click to expand...

if he was black like most of the bastards [born out of wedlock] of the people that commit  murders against blacks in this country you  and your white left wing masters would not be raising hell !!


----------



## Si modo

Zoom said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That white guy stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy who followed, stalked and caught up to a kid 100 pounds lighter than him and he was armed, was screaming for help?
> 
> Are you fucking serious here or is this a far far right wing meltdown?
Click to expand...

Yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw Zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking Zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking Zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking EMTs at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.

Anything else?


----------



## Emma

uptownlivin90 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record you don't have to be tall to play football. Ray Rice is 5'6 or 5'7 I believe and he's pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin was a junior, and reports say he played football for a community league. That photo of him in his uniform isn't from his high school (either one). His uniforms match those of two teams of the South Florida Youth Football League (bulldogs and wolverines).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lord Jesus we're just as confused on this board as the media. I knew he looked rather young in those pictures.
Click to expand...


I didn't dig to find out age ranges for those particular teams. The wolverines photo is looks younger to me. The weight ranges up to 165 for both. No idea when he played for the teams.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably because the father wasn't at his home, I'm assuming the same home that is on the boy's DL.  The father was at his fiancee's home.  The authorities would not have known that.
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question si I can't read the PDF at this moment but is there any where where the police record how exactly they identified Trayvon Martin's body? Your guess and mine would be drivers lisence. But does the report ever mention a wallet? Does it list what was on his person? Ill read the report when I get back home tomorrow... just a quick question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the report, they list DL state for Zimmerman but not for Martin. I don't think we can assume this information for Martin was completed the night of the shooting.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> ETA: Martin's has place of birth. That wouldn't be listed on his DL. I don't think he had ID on him at the time.
Click to expand...

On the top of page 2 of 4, they list Martin's place of birth as "FL".


----------



## uptownlivin90

yidnar said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> White ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh he is one of yours.  No doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if he was black like most of the bastards [born out of wedlock] of the people that commit  murders against blacks in this country you  and your white left wing masters would not be raising hell !!
Click to expand...


Hush yidnerd... can't you see adults are talking? Run along and play now...


----------



## Emma

yidnar said:


> if he was black like most of the bastards [born out of wedlock] of the people that commit  murders against blacks in this country you  and your white left wing masters would not be raising hell !!



Oh looky what crawled out from beneath the slime.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question si I can't read the PDF at this moment but is there any where where the police record how exactly they identified Trayvon Martin's body? Your guess and mine would be drivers lisence. But does the report ever mention a wallet? Does it list what was on his person? Ill read the report when I get back home tomorrow... just a quick question.
> 
> 
> 
> In the report, they list DL state for Zimmerman but not for Martin. I don't think we can assume this information for Martin was completed the night of the shooting.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> ETA: Martin's has place of birth. That wouldn't be listed on his DL. I don't think he had ID on him at the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On the top of page 2 of 4, they list Martin's place of birth as "FL".
Click to expand...


Yeah, that's what I mean. It lists zimmerman's DL as FL, but for Martin it doesn't have anything for DL, just place of birth. 

I guess we need to add that to the list of questions about this case ... when did police ID his body ?


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> if he was black like most of the bastards [born out of wedlock] of the people that commit  murders against blacks in this country you  and your white left wing masters would not be raising hell !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh looky what crawled out from beneath the slime.
Click to expand...

A couple of them in here, too.  

We need not feed them, as Bodey suggested.  They are just vile and completely scrollable.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw Zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking Zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking Zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking EMTs at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.
> 
> Anything else?



I'm fucking tired.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the report, they list DL state for Zimmerman but not for Martin. I don't think we can assume this information for Martin was completed the night of the shooting.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> ETA: Martin's has place of birth. That wouldn't be listed on his DL. I don't think he had ID on him at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> On the top of page 2 of 4, they list Martin's place of birth as "FL".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's what I mean. It lists zimmerman's DL as FL, but for Martin it doesn't have anything for DL, just place of birth.
> 
> I guess we need to add that to the list of questions about this case ... when did police ID his body ?
Click to expand...

Ah, I see what you mean.  I am assuming the cops IDed his body sometime between their arrival on the scene at 19:17 on 2/26 and their completion of the report at 03:07 on 2/27.  That's what the times indicate on the report which includes his name.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw Zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking Zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking Zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking EMTs at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.
> 
> Anything else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking tired.
Click to expand...

  You should go to fucking bed.  So should I.  

Fuck.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw Zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking Zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking Zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking EMTs at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.
> 
> Anything else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking tired.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should go to fucking bed.  So should I.
> 
> Fuck.
Click to expand...


Well I fucking should. Fucking interwebs keep me up all fucking night. Fuck that. I'm going to get some fucking sleep. Good fucking night, and sleep tight, don't let those fucking bedbugs bite!

*hugs*


----------



## Liability

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking tired.
> 
> 
> 
> You should go to fucking bed.  So should I.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I fucking should. Fucking interwebs keep me up all fucking night. Fuck that. I'm going to get some fucking sleep. Good fucking night, and *sleep tight*, don't let those fucking bedbugs bite!
> 
> *hugs*
Click to expand...


That's *sleep fucking tight.*

Fuck.

Do I gotta fucking tell you fucking everything?


----------



## Amelia

Zoom said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> That white guy stalked that kid and killed him.  I dont care if the kid tried to defend himself...(like you would have done), he killed an unarmed kid screaming for help.  How can YOU be in jeopardy when you are chasing someone?
> 
> I dont care if that kid victim here got in a hit because HE felt his life was in jeopardy.  Zimmerman stalked, chased down and shot that kid.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy who followed, stalked and caught up to a kid 100 pounds lighter than him and he was armed, was screaming for help?
> 
> Are you fucking serious here or is this a far far right wing meltdown?
Click to expand...




Pigman claimed he was screaming.  The parents appear to have identified the screams as Trayvon's.  Hope forensics can make a clear ID.

Sadly, I could almost believe Pigman.  If the 17-year-old had decided he had enough and decided to muscle past him I could see the Pig getting really scared really fast and screaming and flailing.


----------



## Barb

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the police report, they have Martin at 6', 160 lbs.  It may be an estimate, but if the kid had his DL in his wallet, they probably got it off of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he had ID ... it was reported he was put in the morgue as 'john doe'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But, the police report has the kid's name on there as the victim.  His full name.
Click to expand...


The police report repeatedly referred to him as "the subject." The id'd Zimmerman, although his name is blacked out. All the information in re witnesses and subjects are blacked out, (one of the two subjects are described as a juvenile) so you can't know if they had his name filled in or if they had unknown printed there.


----------



## yidnar

Emma said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> if he was black like most of the bastards [born out of wedlock] of the people that commit  murders against blacks in this country you  and your white left wing masters would not be raising hell !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh looky what crawled out from beneath the slime.
Click to expand...

can't come up with a reasonable refute to my claim can you ??


----------



## uptownlivin90

yidnar said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> if he was black like most of the bastards [born out of wedlock] of the people that commit  murders against blacks in this country you  and your white left wing masters would not be raising hell !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh looky what crawled out from beneath the slime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can't come up with a reasonable refute to my claim can you ??
Click to expand...

It'd help if you'd come up with a reasonable claim. Just a tip.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Liability said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should go to fucking bed.  So should I.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I fucking should. Fucking interwebs keep me up all fucking night. Fuck that. I'm going to get some fucking sleep. Good fucking night, and *sleep tight*, don't let those fucking bedbugs bite!
> 
> *hugs*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's *sleep fucking tight.*
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> Do I gotta fucking tell you fucking everything?
Click to expand...

I am little bit disturbed about the fucking sheep Emma wants to get. How many can one person fuck?


----------



## Douger

Maybe the shooter could use THIS


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin weighed 140 lbs.  Zimmerman weighs about 250 lbs.
> 
> But don't let that stand in the way of your jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One report put Martin's weight at 160 pounds.
> 
> So Zimmerman would only have had 90 pounds on him.
> 
> Fair fight.  /sarcasm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A 6' tall high school football player/athlete at 160 lbs vs. a 5'9" fatter and older guy, my money would be on the kid taking him in a flash.  IF there was a physical altercation.  Zimmerman had wounds, though, according to the police report.
Click to expand...

I don't think he was playing football in high school. The picture of him in his jersey looks younger and the mascot (bulldogs) doesn't match the mascot of his high school team.


----------



## Sarah G

Si modo said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy who followed, stalked and caught up to a kid 100 pounds lighter than him and he was armed, was screaming for help?
> 
> Are you fucking serious here or is this a far far right wing meltdown?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw Zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking Zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking Zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking EMTs at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.
> 
> Anything else?
Click to expand...


I don't care about Zimmerman being pushed to the ground.  If someone were following me and finally a confrontation occured, I'd try my best to push his ass down and run for my life.  Unfortunately, the older and fatter person had a weapon that Martin couldn't outrun.

I don't know where Martin was shot but if it entered his back, that is exactly what happened.  He pushed Zimmerman down and tried to run.


----------



## JimBowie1958

si modo said:


> emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking emts at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.
> 
> Anything else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm fucking tired.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should go to fucking bed.  So should i.
> 
> Fuck.
Click to expand...


tmi! ! !


----------



## JimBowie1958

Sarah G said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy who followed, stalked and caught up to a kid 100 pounds lighter than him and he was armed, was screaming for help?
> 
> Are you fucking serious here or is this a far far right wing meltdown?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw Zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking Zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking Zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking EMTs at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.
> 
> Anything else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't care about Zimmerman being pushed to the ground.
Click to expand...


You are truly dumber than cold horse shit. He wasnt pushed to the ground if he had a bleeding wound to the back of the head.



Sarah G said:


> If someone were following me and finally a confrontation occured, I'd try my best to push his ass down and run for my life.  Unfortunately, the older and fatter person had a weapon that Martin couldn't outrun.
> 
> I don't know where Martin was shot but if it entered his back, that is exactly what happened.  He pushed Zimmerman down and tried to run.



Christ, please,Sarah, dont have children.


----------



## Ariux

JimBowie1958 said:


> You are truly dumber than cold horse shit. He wasnt pushed to the ground if he had a bleeding wound to the back of the head.



Zimmerman told police he was screaming for help and no one came.   It's not credible that Zimmerman was such a fast and clear thinker to attempt to take credit for someone else's screams.

It's a pretty clear case of the black starting the fight, and Zimmerman ending it with a gun in self-defense.

But, when the black race card is played... reason goes out the door.  Liberals don't have a significant reasoning ability to start with.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good luck getting one from him.  I've asked, too.
Click to expand...

Looks like you're right.


----------



## Crackerjack

Si modo said:


> You should go to fucking bed.  So should I.
> 
> Fuck.


I want a fucking bed.  Where do you get one of those?


----------



## California Girl

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking tired.
> 
> 
> 
> You should go to fucking bed.  So should I.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I fucking should. Fucking interwebs keep me up all fucking night. Fuck that. I'm going to get some fucking sleep. Good fucking night, and sleep tight, don't let those fucking bedbugs bite!
> 
> *hugs*
Click to expand...


Glad you're fucking back on the fucking board, Em.


----------



## PredFan

I live in Orlando which is about 5 miles south of Sanford. I have been following this story almost from the beginning. I don't know what the real story is, and I will let the courts decide if it gets there.

What I don't like is the lynch mob demanding an arrest, as if we live in a country that arrests first and determines if a crime has been committed, second.


----------



## Crackerjack

JimBowie1958 said:


> You are truly dumber than cold horse shit. He wasnt pushed to the ground if he had a bleeding wound to the back of the head.


So the grass stains on the back of his clothing came from ... where, exactly?


----------



## PredFan

Crackerjack said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are truly dumber than cold horse shit. He wasnt pushed to the ground if he had a bleeding wound to the back of the head.
> 
> 
> 
> So the grass stains on the back of his clothing came from ... where, exactly?
Click to expand...


Apparently he thinks that if you are pushed to the ground, you only fall face first.


----------



## Crackerjack

PredFan said:


> I live in Orlando which is about 5 miles south of Sanford. I have been following this story almost from the beginning. I don't know what the real story is, and I will let the courts decide if it gets there.
> 
> What I don't like is the lynch mob demanding an arrest, as if we live in a country that arrests first and determines if a crime has been committed, second.


An interesting (and disturbing) dynamic here is the huge role the prosecutor plays in this whole drama.  I have no idea what the situation is like in Florida, but I'm told by some of my friends around here that assistant DA's in this neck of the woods with a 95% conviction rate are out the door.  Here, prosecutors are paid for convictions and guilty pleas.  Period.  Assuming that the prosecutor here is under similar pressure (which, again, is a complete and total assumption on my part), what probably happened is that when he got the file, he looked at it and said to himself that there's not enough evidence to clearly convict Zimmerman of a crime, so he passed on putting together a case for a grand jury.

That's really the whole problem with this incident, in my opinion.  There's a whole lot of circumstantial evidence, but the only people who could possibly testify to witnessing the event are Martin and Zimmerman, and both of them are unavailable for testimony.  If I'm a prosecutor in this case, I too would shelve this pending more and better evidence that Zimmerman acted contrary to the law.


----------



## Liability

I realize it's politically incorrect and all, but still:

is it possible that Zimmerman isn't guilty of any crime?

I only ask because I believe that, collectively, we know pretty much jack shit about what transpired.

It is certainly possible that he over-reacted.  But given how little any of us actually know, it is also possible that there was more to this story than we have seen, and the difference between the way we have gotten the "story" and reality _*could*_ mean that the neighborhood watch guy is not guilty of anything.

The death of that kid is a tragedy either way.  But a tragic outcome is not, alone, proof of guilt.


----------



## PredFan

Liability said:


> I realize it's politically incorrect and all, but still:
> 
> is it possible that Zimmerman isn't guilty of any crime?
> 
> I only ask because I believe that, collectively, we know pretty much jack shit about what transpired.
> 
> It is certainly possible that he over-reacted.  But given how little any of us actually know, it is also possible that there was more to this story than we have seen, and the difference between the way we have gotten the "story" and reality _*could*_ mean that the neighborhood watch guy is not guilty of anything.
> 
> The death of that kid is a tragedy either way.  But a tragic outcome is not, alone, proof of guilt.



Living in Orlando I have been following this story a lot longer than most people. I have heard absolutely nothing in any 9-11 tape or any witnesses that have stated ANYTHING that contradicts Zimmerman's story. he lynch mob is acting purely on emotion.

We were not there, we did not see what happened. The Sanford police already questioned Zimmerman at length and did not arrest him. Probably because they know there is no evidence that contradicts his story. All the speeches from Al Sharpton cannot change the evidence.

It is entirely possible that it happened in the exact way that Zimmerman claims. Thus, no crime.


----------



## Dante

Liability said:


> I realize it's politically incorrect and all, but still:
> 
> is it possible that Zimmerman isn't guilty of any crime?
> 
> I only ask because I believe that, collectively, we know pretty much jack shit about what transpired.
> 
> It is certainly possible that he over-reacted.  But given how little any of us actually know, it is also possible that there was more to this story than we have seen, and the difference between the way we have gotten the "story" and reality _*could*_ mean that the neighborhood watch guy is not guilty of anything.
> 
> The death of that kid is a tragedy either way.  But a tragic outcome is not, alone, proof of guilt.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Si modo said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link that supports your claim that Martin was screaming for help?  I've seen reports that there were screams for help, but they don't say who it was who was screaming, and some say it was Zimmerman.  So, if you have something different, I would like to see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy who followed, stalked and caught up to a kid 100 pounds lighter than him and he was armed, was screaming for help?
> 
> Are you fucking serious here or is this a far far right wing meltdown?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, fuckwit.  I'm fucking serious.  There is a fucking eyewitness report that saw Zimmerman on the fucking ground before the shooting.  The fucking cop report indicates that fucking Zimmerman was calling for fucking help, fuckwit.  The fucking cop report also indicates that fucking Zimmerman had fucking grass stains on his fucking back and that his fucking head was treated by fucking EMTs at the fucking scene for fucking wounds to his fucking head, fuckwit.
> 
> Anything else?
Click to expand...



Wow - he had *GRASS STAINS* on his pants - CLEARLY this must have been SELF DEFENSE


----------



## Emma

California Girl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should go to fucking bed.  So should I.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I fucking should. Fucking interwebs keep me up all fucking night. Fuck that. I'm going to get some fucking sleep. Good fucking night, and sleep tight, don't let those fucking bedbugs bite!
> 
> *hugs*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad you're fucking back on the fucking board, Em.
Click to expand...


So am I 

Fucking good to fucking see you again, fucker *hugs*


----------



## Sarah G

Liability said:


> I realize it's politically incorrect and all, but still:
> 
> is it possible that Zimmerman isn't guilty of any crime?
> 
> I only ask because I believe that, collectively, we know pretty much jack shit about what transpired.
> 
> It is certainly possible that he over-reacted.  But given how little any of us actually know, it is also possible that there was more to this story than we have seen, and the difference between the way we have gotten the "story" and reality _*could*_ mean that the neighborhood watch guy is not guilty of anything.
> 
> The death of that kid is a tragedy either way.  But a tragic outcome is not, alone, proof of guilt.



No, that isn't possible.  He had the gun and a kid is dead, we know he pursued the kid even after he was told not to and he made some comment on the 911 call.  He said something like, they always get away and he was in hot pursuit, he was on a mission.

The kid was doing nothing wrong.  He was on the phone with his girlfriend walking fast and telling her someone was following him.  It isn't a guilty verdict, they haven't even arrested him yet but we know enough to wonder why he is still on the streets.


----------



## Ariux

Sarah G said:


> No, that isn't possible.  He had the gun and a kid is dead,



The thought process of a Liberal:
1) White-looking guy vs. a black, ergo, the black is innocent.
2) Make up some stupid crap to support #1.
2a) white guy won, that proves #1.



> we know he pursued the kid even after he was told not to and he made some comment on the 911 call.  He said something like, they always get away and he was in hot pursuit, he was on a mission.



If you're going buy what Zimmerman said, he said okay to not following the black.  Stop being a stupid, racist hypocrite.  



> The kid was doing nothing wrong.



Other than assaulting Zimmerman.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, that isn't possible.  He had the gun and a kid is dead,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thought process of a Liberal:
> 1) White-looking guy vs. a black, ergo, the black is innocent.
> 2) Make up some stupid crap to support #1.
> 2a) white guy won, that proves #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we know he pursued the kid even after he was told not to and he made some comment on the 911 call.  He said something like, they always get away and he was in hot pursuit, he was on a mission.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you're going buy what Zimmerman said, he said okay to not following the black.  Stop being a stupid, racist hypocrite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The kid was doing nothing wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Other than assaulting Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


Motherfucker you are a racist pig who is on the side of the shooter no matter what, everything you say is irrevelant regarding this matter.


----------



## Emma

High_Gravity said:


> Motherfucker you are a racist pig who is on the side of the shooter no matter what, everything you say is irrevelant regarding this matter.



Eh, don't waste your breath, consider the source. This is the same person who thought that former altar-boy Zimmerman is a dirty Jew.


----------



## High_Gravity

Emma said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Motherfucker you are a racist pig who is on the side of the shooter no matter what, everything you say is irrevelant regarding this matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eh, don't waste your breath, consider the source. This is the same person who thought that former altar-boy Zimmerman is a dirty Jew.
Click to expand...


You are correct.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I fucking should. Fucking interwebs keep me up all fucking night. Fuck that. I'm going to get some fucking sleep. Good fucking night, and sleep tight, don't let those fucking bedbugs bite!
> 
> *hugs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you're fucking back on the fucking board, Em.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So am I
> 
> Fucking good to fucking see you again, fucker *hugs*
Click to expand...

Emma is fucking back!    Fucking-A, it's a fucking awesome day, and it's a fucking Friday!

Fuck.


----------



## Sarah G

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you're fucking back on the fucking board, Em.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I
> 
> Fucking good to fucking see you again, fucker *hugs*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Emma is fucking back!    Fucking-A, it's a fucking awesome day, and it's a fucking Friday!
> 
> Fuck.
Click to expand...


I've known Emma for years.  Love that fucken woman.


----------



## Emma

Sarah G said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> So am I
> 
> Fucking good to fucking see you again, fucker *hugs*
> 
> 
> 
> Emma is fucking back!    Fucking-A, it's a fucking awesome day, and it's a fucking Friday!
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've known Emma for years.  Love that fucken woman.
Click to expand...


I fuckin' love you all!!!!


----------



## High_Gravity

Emma fuckin rocks this fuckin board!


----------



## Emma

high_gravity said:


> emma fuckin rocks this fuckin board!


lmfao!!


----------



## paperview

High_Gravity said:


> Emma fuckin rocks this fuckin board!


Hola!


----------



## OODA_Loop

Crackerjack said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck getting one from him.  I've asked, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like you're right.
Click to expand...


_Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.

To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death. 

Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _

Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief


----------



## Si modo

OODA_Loop said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck getting one from him.  I've asked, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Katzndogz

The point the left wants to make is that a young boy died.  Therefore Zimmerman is guilty of murder and should be punished no matter what the actual facts are.


----------



## The Infidel

Louis Farrakhan Tweets Curious Messages About Peace & Justice | Trayvon Martin | TheBlaze.com


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...




Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## The Infidel

OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
Click to expand...


I want to know who it was that was screaming help.

If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman needs to pay for it.

If it is the other way around.... wow, what more evidence do ya need for self defense?

I hope we get to the bottom of it ASAP though.


----------



## daveman

So, is it still the non-white white guy's fault?

Not any more, apparently.

MSNBC HOST BLAMES LIMBAUGH, GINGRICH, SANTORUM FOR TRAYVON MARTIN DEATH

Ed Schultz blames Bush for Trayvon Martin's death | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

Leftists are retarded.  No question.


----------



## Sarah G

daveman said:


> So, is it still the non-white white guy's fault?
> 
> Not any more, apparently.
> 
> MSNBC HOST BLAMES LIMBAUGH, GINGRICH, SANTORUM FOR TRAYVON MARTIN DEATH
> 
> Ed Schultz blames Bush for Trayvon Martin's death | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner
> 
> Leftists are retarded.  No question.



Breitbart.com...


----------



## OODA_Loop

The Infidel said:


> I want to know who it was that was screaming help.
> 
> If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman needs to pay for it.
> 
> If it is the other way around.... wow, what more evidence do ya need for self defense?
> 
> I hope we get to the bottom of it ASAP though.[/FONT]



Time line it from what you know and tell me when Martin cries for help ?

Zimmerman is allegedly chasing him, but rather than run home something stopped his flight.... ?  Is it typical to stop when you're younger and fitter .....getting away from a stange pursuer as a football / player teen ?

It was prior to the gunshot and there is no physical evidence of wounds from hands on  proceeding the gunshot...... except on Zimmerman.....so when did he yell for help ?


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


So Linky Linkyerson ?  Lee is just a lying, incompetent redneck hick ?


----------



## The Infidel

OODA_Loop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know who it was that was screaming help.
> 
> If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman needs to pay for it.
> 
> If it is the other way around.... wow, what more evidence do ya need for self defense?
> 
> I hope we get to the bottom of it ASAP though.[/FONT]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time line it from what you know and tell me when Martin cries for help ?
> 
> Zimmerman is allegedly chasing him, but rather than run home something stopped his flight.... ?  Is it typical to stop when you're younger and fitter .....getting away from a stange pursuer as a football / player teen ?
> 
> It was prior to the gunshot and there is no physical evidence of wounds from hands on  proceeding the gunshot...... except on Zimmerman.....so when did he yell for help ?
Click to expand...



I will let the court do its job...


----------



## Ariux

The Infidel said:


> I want to know who it was that was screaming help.



It was Zimmerman screaming for help.

In the police report, a cop mentions hearing Zimmerman say he was yelling for help but no one came. 

The police showed up just moments after the traumatic encounter and shooting.  Zimmerman also clearly is not very bright.  So, it boggles the imagination that Zimmerman could have been so quick and calculating to have thought to make the claim that it he was screaming for help.  He would have had to have thought that it was important.  He would have had to considered, before knowing anything, what witnesses heard and saw.  He would have considered if the screaming could pass for his voice.  Indeed, if he was so clever as all that, he would have been screaming in the first place to set up his alibi.

If I were Zimmerman, I would have been much slower to talk to the police, wanting first to collect my thoughts and calm down.   

Zimmerman has said absolutely nothing that conflicts with the witnesses or the physical evidence.  There's no reason to question his honesty.

Zimmeran was clobbered.  He was bleeding from the back of his head and from the face.  Grass stains show that at one point he was on his back.  It's highly credible that he would have been yelling for help.


----------



## Katzndogz

If Zimmerman really acted in self-defense should he still be found guilty of murder because Treyvon Martin is dead?


----------



## Dante

OODA_Loop said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know who it was that was screaming help.
> 
> If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman needs to pay for it.
> 
> If it is the other way around.... wow, what more evidence do ya need for self defense?
> 
> I hope we get to the bottom of it ASAP though.[/FONT]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time line it from what you know and tell me when Martin cries for help ?
> 
> Zimmerman is allegedly chasing him, but rather than run home something stopped his flight.... ?  Is it typical to stop when you're younger and fitter .....getting away from a stange pursuer as a football / player teen ?
> 
> It was prior to the gunshot and there is no physical evidence of wounds from hands on  proceeding the gunshot...... except on Zimmerman.....so when did he yell for help ?
Click to expand...

Police report .. before there was any outrage over this...




> "I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."
> 
> "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."


you people sound like the Obama birthers, the police and others planned to say Zimmerman said he screamed for help as a way to cover things up.  uhm, okay


----------



## Dante

Katzndogz said:


> If Zimmerman really acted in self-defense should he still be found guilty of murder because Treyvon Martin is dead?



MarcATL and Ravi would say yes


----------



## Si modo

OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Linky Linkyerson ?  Lee is just a lying, incompetent redneck hick ?
Click to expand...

No asshole.  I just don't believe what anyone types without a source.

You are not special.

You refuse to link to anything, so EVERYTHING you type is especially suspect.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Linky Linkyerson ?  Lee is just a lying, incompetent redneck hick ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No asshole.  I just don't believe what anyone types without a source.
> 
> You are not special.
> 
> You refuse to link to anything, so EVERYTHING you type is especially suspect.
Click to expand...


Why yes.  Nothing on the chief's statement.


----------



## Emma

OODA_Loop said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck getting one from him.  I've asked, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _&#8220;Mr. Zimmerman&#8217;s claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.&#8221;
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story,&#8221; _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
Click to expand...


If that's true, then the facts will come out in the FDLE/Grand Jury investigation. However. I think too much critical evidence and testimony may have been lost by now ... and  I doubt we'll ever know for sure.


----------



## Emma

The Infidel said:


> I want to know who it was that was screaming help.
> 
> If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman needs to pay for it.
> 
> If it is the other way around.... wow, what more evidence do ya need for self defense?
> 
> I hope we get to the bottom of it ASAP though.


His mother said she recognized her son's voice as the one yelling. I do believe her. I am having a hard time getting past that ...


----------



## Dante

Emma said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know who it was that was screaming help.
> 
> If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman needs to pay for it.
> 
> If it is the other way around.... wow, what more evidence do ya need for self defense?
> 
> I hope we get to the bottom of it ASAP though.
> 
> 
> 
> His mother said she recognized her son's voice as the one yelling. I do believe her. I am having a hard time getting past that ...
Click to expand...


just the facts ma'am: the police report written before any busybodies took time off from watching CSI and Nancy Grace:

"I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."


----------



## Emma

Yes, I know. That's what he claims. I still can't get past this mother stating it was Trayvon she heard on that tape. A parent would know their child's voice.

Is there any way that LE can isolate the voice enough to determine who was screaming?


----------



## Si modo

OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Linky Linkyerson ?  Lee is just a lying, incompetent redneck hick ?
> 
> 
> 
> No asshole.  I just don't believe what anyone types without a source.
> 
> You are not special.
> 
> You refuse to link to anything, so EVERYTHING you type is especially suspect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why yes.  Nothing on the chief's statement.
Click to expand...

Link to it, asshole.

It stands as a lie until you do.

You have zero cred with anyone because of that.


----------



## Ariux

Emma said:


> His mother said she recognized her son's voice as the one yelling. I do believe her. I am having a hard time getting past that ...



Her son squealing like a stuck bitch is familiar to her?


----------



## daveman

Sarah G said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, is it still the non-white white guy's fault?
> 
> Not any more, apparently.
> 
> MSNBC HOST BLAMES LIMBAUGH, GINGRICH, SANTORUM FOR TRAYVON MARTIN DEATH
> 
> Ed Schultz blames Bush for Trayvon Martin's death | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner
> 
> Leftists are retarded.  No question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breitbart.com...
Click to expand...

Are you claiming a dead guy faked the video?

Are you really that stupid?

MSNBC host blames Trayvon Martin death on free speech - National Conservative | Examiner.com

MIX 98.1 Today's Variety

National News - Y-105 Mansfield

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZLmSunUEag]TV Host Blames Conservatives for Trayvon Martin Death - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## daveman

Si modo said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> No asshole.  I just don't believe what anyone types without a source.
> 
> You are not special.
> 
> You refuse to link to anything, so EVERYTHING you type is especially suspect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why yes.  Nothing on the chief's statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link to it, asshole.
> 
> It stands as a lie until you do.
> 
> You have zero cred with anyone because of that.
Click to expand...

OOPSY is one of those people who thinks if he says something, it's true.

Leftists have a remarkable capacity for self-deception.  It's because they're stupid and gullible at the same time.


----------



## Dante

stupid fucks. why can't both men be screaming? they are fighting and a gun comes out.

this shows it doesn't pay to start a verbal confrontation and then push it to a physical confrontation


----------



## Ravi

Liability said:


> I realize it's politically incorrect and all, but still:
> 
> is it possible that Zimmerman isn't guilty of any crime?
> 
> I only ask because I believe that, collectively, we know pretty much jack shit about what transpired.
> 
> It is certainly possible that he over-reacted.  But given how little any of us actually know, it is also possible that there was more to this story than we have seen, and the difference between the way we have gotten the "story" and reality _*could*_ mean that the neighborhood watch guy is not guilty of anything.
> 
> The death of that kid is a tragedy either way.  But a tragic outcome is not, alone, proof of guilt.



Yes, it is possible, but the problem is it wasn't investigated. People that are killed deserve better than what the Sanford Police Department gave the Martins.


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck getting one from him.  I've asked, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
Click to expand...

Or, he had injuries consistent with receiving them from someone who was fighting for his life.


----------



## Dante

*Ravi's Nancy Grace Expert Rating Drops *


Ravi said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realize it's politically incorrect and all, but still:
> 
> is it possible that Zimmerman isn't guilty of any crime?
> 
> I only ask because I believe that, collectively, we know pretty much jack shit about what transpired.
> 
> It is certainly possible that he over-reacted.  But given how little any of us actually know, it is also possible that there was more to this story than we have seen, and the difference between the way we have gotten the "story" and reality _*could*_ mean that the neighborhood watch guy is not guilty of anything.
> 
> The death of that kid is a tragedy either way.  But a tragic outcome is not, alone, proof of guilt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is possible, but the problem is it wasn't investigated. People that are killed deserve better than what the Sanford Police Department gave the Martins.
Click to expand...


It was investigated. Some people say poorly, but all sane people agree - it was investigated.

see?


----------



## Dante

*Ravi's Marcus Welby M.D. Ratings Drops*


Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or, he had injuries consistent with receiving them from someone who was fighting for his life.
Click to expand...

Better take Ravi's word for it here. She attended classes in Florida where she watched reruns of Marcus Welby M.D. for two consecutive semesters.

She got a certificate in Kravitz Autopsy Techniques


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> No asshole.  I just don't believe what anyone types without a source.
> 
> You are not special.
> 
> You refuse to link to anything, so EVERYTHING you type is especially suspect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why yes.  Nothing on the chief's statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link to it, asshole.
> 
> It stands as a lie until you do.
> 
> You have zero cred with anyone because of that.
Click to expand...


Link to what ?

I just linked to the miami herald (no bastian of conservatism) quoting the chief that zim had evidence and testimony to support threat great bodily harm or death


----------



## OODA_Loop

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or, he had injuries consistent with receiving them from someone who was fighting for his life.
Click to expand...


He did not have any defensive injuries and zimmerman no offensive injuries ?


----------



## OODA_Loop

Ravi said:


> Yes, it is possible, but the problem is it wasn't investigated.



Link ?


----------



## saveliberty

Dante said:


> *Ravi's Nancy Grace Expert Rating Drops *
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realize it's politically incorrect and all, but still:
> 
> is it possible that Zimmerman isn't guilty of any crime?
> 
> I only ask because I believe that, collectively, we know pretty much jack shit about what transpired.
> 
> It is certainly possible that he over-reacted.  But given how little any of us actually know, it is also possible that there was more to this story than we have seen, and the difference between the way we have gotten the "story" and reality _*could*_ mean that the neighborhood watch guy is not guilty of anything.
> 
> The death of that kid is a tragedy either way.  But a tragic outcome is not, alone, proof of guilt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is possible, but the problem is it wasn't investigated. People that are killed deserve better than what the Sanford Police Department gave the Martins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was investigated. Some people say poorly, but all sane people agree - it was investigated.
> 
> see?
Click to expand...


No interview of Zimmerman at the station the night of the attack and they didn't hold on to his clothing or give him a gunshot residue test.  Ravi's right, no investigation took place.


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why yes.  Nothing on the chief's statement.
> 
> 
> 
> Link to it, asshole.
> 
> It stands as a lie until you do.
> 
> You have zero cred with anyone because of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link to what ?
> 
> I just linked to the miami herald (no bastian of conservatism) quoting the chief that zim had evidence and testimony to support threat great bodily harm or death
Click to expand...

From your link:



> If someone asks you, Hey do you live here? is it OK for you to jump on them and beat the crap out of somebody? Lee said. Its not.


That doesn't sound like a police officer relying on the evidence. It's a good thing he stepped down.

He believed everything Zimmerman told him.


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> 
> 
> Or, he had injuries consistent with receiving them from someone who was fighting for his life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He did not have any defensive injuries and zimmerman no offensive injuries ?
Click to expand...

No one knows, since they dropped the investigation. At this point, the evidence has probably been destroyed.


----------



## Si modo

daveman said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why yes.  Nothing on the chief's statement.
> 
> 
> 
> Link to it, asshole.
> 
> It stands as a lie until you do.
> 
> You have zero cred with anyone because of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OOPSY is one of those people who thinks if he says something, it's true.
> 
> Leftists have a remarkable capacity for self-deception.  It's because they're stupid and gullible at the same time.
Click to expand...

I've never run into him before, so now I know it's just another poster who has no cred.

Lots of them here.....


----------



## uptownlivin90

The Infidel said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I want to know who it was that was screaming help.
> 
> If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman needs to pay for it.
> 
> If it is the other way around.... wow, what more evidence do ya need for self defense?
> 
> I hope we get to the bottom of it ASAP though.
Click to expand...


That's not necessarily true, both ways.

Even if Trayvon Martin was the one screaming on the recording as chilling as that would be since he's the one that came up dead, I stated before it wouldn't mean much.

The primary thing a jury is going to look for is evidence that Zimmy acted in self-defense. What determines that for the most part is who initiated the physical contact: Zimmy or Trayvon.

Let's say Trayvon initiated the contact. (Interjecting: even if he did there's a possibility he did out of fear because this random hispanic guy was chasing him threw a neighborhood in such a case this would be extremely tragic). The altercation was Trayvon's fault in most cases (I'm pretty sure, not sure what the law says about if you think you're threatened so you lash out). Could it still have been him screaming? Let's say if he noticed Zimmy had a gun or Zimmy ended up getting the best of him because he had a gun? Zimmy still has ground to claim self-defense, despite the fact that Trayvon was screaming.

Same situation backwards. Let's say Zimmy grabbed at Trayvon and Trayvon acted in self-defense, they get into a scuffle, Zimmy ends up realizing that he had no business trying to bully a 17 year old kid that's in pretty good shape, kiddo got the best of him, he bit off more then he can chew. He screams, pulls out the gun and shoots? In that case it's still Trayvon who was acting in self-defense.

The unfortunate part about it is, I don't think there's any way at all to prove who took the first punch. All we have is circumstantial evidence and the fact that Zimmerman was an idiot. It's probably common sense that Zimmerman was at fault for chasing the kid and the 9-11 proves he had motive to attack the kid when he said "these guys always get away". Zimmy didn't want this one to "get away". Zimmy handled the case like what he is a complete retard, there's a reason he's not on the force. However, I don't think his retarded actions are enough to convict him of anything in the court of law. The tape being Trayvon screaming honestly would hurt Zimmy in court but it would not be a deal breaker either way.


----------



## OODA_Loop

saveliberty said:


> No interview of Zimmerman at the station the night of the attack and they didn't hold on to his clothing or give him a gunshot residue test.  Ravi's right, no investigation took place.



They took him from the scene the station and there is a taped interview, more than one over several days.


No need for residue he admitted on scene...what would it prove ?

Know however, they did test Martin not only for residue / muzzle blast proximity...but also point of entry / exit, angle of penetration.   April 10.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link to it, asshole.
> 
> It stands as a lie until you do.
> 
> You have zero cred with anyone because of that.
> 
> 
> 
> OOPSY is one of those people who thinks if he says something, it's true.
> 
> Leftists have a remarkable capacity for self-deception.  It's because they're stupid and gullible at the same time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never run into him before, so now I know it's just another poster who has no cred.
> 
> Lots of them here.....
Click to expand...

this is too funny, dman is mixing up the oopas....just goes to show you what a knee jerker he really is.


----------



## OODA_Loop

uptownlivin90 said:


> The unfortunate part about it is, I don't think there's any way at all to prove who took the first punch.



Do you think it possible to determine if no one threw a punch at all ?


----------



## daveman

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> OOPSY is one of those people who thinks if he says something, it's true.
> 
> Leftists have a remarkable capacity for self-deception.  It's because they're stupid and gullible at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never run into him before, so now I know it's just another poster who has no cred.
> 
> Lots of them here.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is too funny, dman is mixing up the oopas....just goes to show you what a knee jerker he really is.
Click to expand...


My goodness, you're not very bright.


daveman said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why yes.  Nothing on the chief's statement.
> 
> 
> 
> Link to it, asshole.
> 
> It stands as a lie until you do.
> 
> You have zero cred with anyone because of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OOPSY is one of those people who thinks if he says something, it's true.
> 
> Leftists have a remarkable capacity for self-deception.  It's because they're stupid and gullible at the same time.
Click to expand...


I was quite clearly referring to OODA_Loop.  Your misunderstanding is not my fault.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Ravi said:


> No one knows, since they dropped the investigation. At this point, the evidence has probably been destroyed.



On March 13 SPD turned the investigation over to the State of Florida ?

Who dropped it ?

and at what point destroyed evidence and for what intended purpose did they destroy it ?


----------



## Dante

Ravi: _"He believed everything Zimmerman told him."_



Ravi said:


> He believed everything Zimmerman told him.



  We can't have the police believing things people tell them. What would happen to society if the police gave people the benefit of the doubt? Ravi will tell us. _"Why, the USA would go to hell in a hand basket, that's what would happen."_ - what Ravi would say


----------



## uptownlivin90

The Infidel said:


> Louis Farrakhan Tweets Curious Messages About Peace & Justice | Trayvon Martin | TheBlaze.com



UGH!!! 

*Puts head in hands and rubs eyes*

Why would you bring Farrakhan into this?

The guy thinks Elijah Muhammed is on a space ship somewhere on Planet X. Everything he says ought to be completely ignored.

To correct the link btw he's no longer the leader of the NOI he stepped down two years ago from that position because of his old age, even though he's still a member and continues to speak on their behalf, it's some no named guy now, who is also waiting for Planet X's arrival with the second coming of Elijah Muhammed.


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one knows, since they dropped the investigation. At this point, the evidence has probably been destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On March 13 SPD turned the investigation over to the State of Florida ?
> 
> Who dropped it ?
> 
> and at what point destroyed evidence and for what intended purpose did they destroy it ?
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## OODA_Loop

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one knows, since they dropped the investigation. At this point, the evidence has probably been destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On March 13 SPD turned the investigation over to the State of Florida ?
> 
> Who dropped it ?
> 
> and at what point destroyed evidence and for what intended purpose did they destroy it ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...



You are pretty devoid of facts to draw such absolute conclusions.

But I know it won't stop you if it reconciles emotionally.

Due process is over.


----------



## Dante

saveliberty said:


> No interview of Zimmerman at the station the night of the attack and they didn't hold on to his clothing or give him a gunshot residue test.  Ravi's right, no investigation took place.



nope. An investigation took place. Your expertise seems to be limited to watching CSI television drams - not the real world.

Some people have called a sloppy investigation, an incomplete investigation, but no one with any credibility has even suggested an investigation did not take place. 

Read the police report: 



> "I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."
> 
> "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."


----------



## OODA_Loop

March 13 

_Police complete their investigation, turning the case over to the State Attorney's Office for the 18th Circuit. A spokeswoman promises "a through, deliberate and just review."_


Trayvon Martin shooting timeline: A timeline of the events surrounding the fatal shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin by neighborhood-watch volunteer George Zimmerman - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## Dante

*Breaking News: Ravi Uncovers A Coverup!!!*


Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or, he had injuries consistent with receiving them from someone who was fighting for his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He did not have any defensive injuries and zimmerman no offensive injuries ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one knows, since they dropped the investigation. At this point, the evidence has probably been destroyed.
Click to expand...


 Evidence Destroyed


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> On March 13 SPD turned the investigation over to the State of Florida ?
> 
> Who dropped it ?
> 
> and at what point destroyed evidence and for what intended purpose did they destroy it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are pretty devoid of facts to draw such absolute conclusions.
> 
> But I know it won't stop you if it reconciles emotionally.
> 
> Due process is over.
Click to expand...

So, no link. I am not surprised.


----------



## Emma

[youtube]9TVz7MiFhAk[/youtube]


----------



## OODA_Loop

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are pretty devoid of facts to draw such absolute conclusions.
> 
> But I know it won't stop you if it reconciles emotionally.
> 
> Due process is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, no link. I am not surprised.
Click to expand...


Post #1289

I am sorry you do not possess the intellectual horsepower to make it worth the time with you.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Bottom line.

Zimmerman going to jail or not.

Black, White, Asian, or Hispanic... rich, poor, or in between... it doesn't matter.

THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO YOUR CHILD.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Dante said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> No interview of Zimmerman at the station the night of the attack and they didn't hold on to his clothing or give him a gunshot residue test.  Ravi's right, no investigation took place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nope. An investigation took place. Your expertise seems to be limited to watching CSI television drams - not the real world.
> 
> Some people have called a sloppy investigation, an incomplete investigation, but no one with any credibility has even suggested an investigation did not take place.
> 
> Read the police report:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."
> 
> "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Interestingly enough, this is the second time that a Sanford police chief has had an incomplete investigation and had to resign because of a scandal.......



> The Sanford, Florida police chief in charge of the investigation into the shooting of black teenager Trayvon Martin resigned temporarily on Thursday.
> Bill Lee Jr., stood down as the outcry over the death of the 17-year-old, gunned down by a neighborhood watch captain as he went to buy candy, spread across the U.S..
> 
> It also emerged today that the police officer who first responded to the scene had been previously involved in another racially-charged investigation.
> 
> The officer, Anthony Raimondo, was involved in an alleged police cover up of an incident in which the white son of a police lieutenant punched a black homeless man and was never arrested.
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin case: Police chief RESIGNS over neighborhood watch shooting | Mail Online



And........that is 2 police chiefs for the city of Sanford in the past 20 months.  I wonder if the police department is intentionally sloppy, or if there is some connection between Zimmerman and the police officer?

Personally?  I think this thing stinks on ice, and there is way too much shady bullshit going on.  Arrest Zimmerman, have him post bail, put him on trial and be done with it.

Oh yeah..........on one of the 911 calls that Zimmerman made, you can hear an enhanced audio where he's following the kid and calls him a "fucking coon".



> 28-year-old George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain and an alleged serial 911 caller, used a racial slur before he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin to death, according to newly released information.
> 
> An unedited version of Zimmerman's February 26, 2012, 911 call suggests Zimmerman called Martin a "fucking coon" before he shot the unarmed teen to death.
> 
> The questionable comment can be heard at the two minutes and twenty-one seconds mark in the 911 recording.



George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin's killer, called teen a 'coon' before shooting? - Chicago News Report | Chicago News Blogs | Chicago Crime | News Blotter


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are pretty devoid of facts to draw such absolute conclusions.
> 
> But I know it won't stop you if it reconciles emotionally.
> 
> Due process is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, no link. I am not surprised.
Click to expand...


No you  are never suprised since you think you define what reality is anyway.

Delusional moron.


----------



## JimBowie1958

ABikerSailor said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> No interview of Zimmerman at the station the night of the attack and they didn't hold on to his clothing or give him a gunshot residue test.  Ravi's right, no investigation took place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nope. An investigation took place. Your expertise seems to be limited to watching CSI television drams - not the real world.
> 
> Some people have called a sloppy investigation, an incomplete investigation, but no one with any credibility has even suggested an investigation did not take place.
> 
> Read the police report:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, this is the second time that a Sanford police chief has had an incomplete investigation and had to resign because of a scandal.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sanford, Florida police chief in charge of the investigation into the shooting of black teenager Trayvon Martin resigned temporarily on Thursday.
> Bill Lee Jr., stood down as the outcry over the death of the 17-year-old, gunned down by a neighborhood watch captain as he went to buy candy, spread across the U.S..
> 
> It also emerged today that the police officer who first responded to the scene had been previously involved in another racially-charged investigation.
> 
> The officer, Anthony Raimondo, was involved in an alleged police cover up of an incident in which the white son of a police lieutenant punched a black homeless man and was never arrested.
> 
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin case: Police chief RESIGNS over neighborhood watch shooting | Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And........that is 2 police chiefs for the city of Sanford in the past 20 months.  I wonder if the police department is intentionally sloppy, or if there is some connection between Zimmerman and the police officer?
> 
> Personally?  I think this thing stinks on ice, and there is way too much shady bullshit going on.  Arrest Zimmerman, have him post bail, put him on trial and be done with it.
> 
> Oh yeah..........on one of the 911 calls that Zimmerman made, you can hear an enhanced audio where he's following the kid and calls him a "fucking coon".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 28-year-old George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain and an alleged serial 911 caller, used a racial slur before he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin to death, according to newly released information.
> 
> An unedited version of Zimmerman's February 26, 2012, 911 call suggests Zimmerman called Martin a "fucking coon" before he shot the unarmed teen to death.
> 
> The questionable comment can be heard at the two minutes and twenty-one seconds mark in the 911 recording.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin's killer, called teen a 'coon' before shooting? - Chicago News Report | Chicago News Blogs | Chicago Crime | News Blotter
Click to expand...


Bullshit; sounds dubbed.

And even if he did, so what? That proves he wanted to kill Martin?

Please, try to connect the dots you are drawing before they make you look stupid.


----------



## Si modo

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are pretty devoid of facts to draw such absolute conclusions.
> 
> But I know it won't stop you if it reconciles emotionally.
> 
> Due process is over.
> 
> 
> 
> So, no link. I am not surprised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you  are never suprised since you think you define what reality is anyway.
> 
> Delusional moron.
Click to expand...

That is an unfair assessment of Ravi in this thread.  She has been quite reasonable.  The Oooood-whatever poster hasn't been posting links for days.  She made that post at the same time Oood-whatever FINALLY posted a link, ONLY after I and several others had asked him several times to do so over several days.


----------



## Si modo

uptownlivin90 said:


> Bottom line.
> 
> Zimmerman going to jail or not.
> 
> Black, White, Asian, or Hispanic... rich, poor, or in between... it doesn't matter.
> 
> THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO YOUR CHILD.


Yes.  And, from what I understand, there has been an increase in the numbers of 'justifiable homicides' in Florida since the passing of this law.

I believe Ravi posted information on that earlier.

It's a bad law.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> The Oooood-whatever poster hasn't been posting links for days.  She made that post at the same time Oood-whatever FINALLY posted a link, ONLY after I and several others had asked him several times to do so over several days.



Its really best to feed yourself...... then make me suckle you.

I can run any statement here in about 5-10 minutes get some idea of the veracity and context.


----------



## Si modo

OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Oooood-whatever poster hasn't been posting links for days.  She made that post at the same time Oood-whatever FINALLY posted a link, ONLY after I and several others had asked him several times to do so over several days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its really best to feed yourself...... then make me suckle you.
> 
> I can run any statement here in about 5-10 minutes get some idea of the veracity and context.
Click to expand...

Only idiots believe they don't have to support a claim they make.  That makes you an idiot.

Good morning.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Oooood-whatever poster hasn't been posting links for days.  She made that post at the same time Oood-whatever FINALLY posted a link, ONLY after I and several others had asked him several times to do so over several days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its really best to feed yourself...... then make me suckle you.
> 
> I can run any statement here in about 5-10 minutes get some idea of the veracity and context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only idiots believe they don't have to support a claim they make.  That makes you an idiot.
> 
> Good morning.
Click to expand...


Got it.

Idiot says police wanted to go manslaughter and counsel made determination.


----------



## Si modo

OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its really best to feed yourself...... then make me suckle you.
> 
> I can run any statement here in about 5-10 minutes get some idea of the veracity and context.
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots believe they don't have to support a claim they make.  That makes you an idiot.
> 
> Good morning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Got it.
> 
> Idiot says police wanted to go manslaughter and counsel made determination.
Click to expand...

What the hell are you going on about now?  Try to answer in English, please.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots believe they don't have to support a claim they make.  That makes you an idiot.
> 
> Good morning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got it.
> 
> Idiot says police wanted to go manslaughter and counsel made determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What the hell are you going on about now?  Try to answer in English, please.
Click to expand...


_puts nipple in mouth...holds si modo closely_

police wanted to charge manslaughter

counsel made determination evidence and witness testimony didnt rise to level


----------



## Stephanie

I still can't get over the title of this thread..

*WHITE* man shoots innocent black man..


----------



## Emma

Stephanie said:


> I still can't get over the title of this thread..
> 
> *WHITE* man shoots innocent black man..



Because media reported the shooter as white...because the police report described him as white.


----------



## OODA_Loop

_"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help&#8230;and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,"_

_"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,"_

Witness "John" to FOX News Orlando


----------



## PredFan

Emma said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't get over the title of this thread..
> 
> *WHITE* man shoots innocent black man..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because media reported the shooter as white...because the police report described him as white.
Click to expand...


The father and the rest of the family, who should know btw, says he isn't white.


----------



## PredFan

uptownlivin90 said:


> Bottom line.
> 
> Zimmerman going to jail or not.
> 
> Black, White, Asian, or Hispanic... rich, poor, or in between... it doesn't matter.
> 
> THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO YOUR CHILD.



I'm just glad that my kids and I don't live in a country where someone can be thrown in jail first and then wait there until the police determine if a crime has been committed.


----------



## Stephanie

Democrats-Progressives-lefties have no problem using a dead person for their agendas..

look what they did with Gabby Gifford's...

a couple weeks ago their panties were in a bunch over some 30 year old law student being called a name..

It just NEVER ends with these people


----------



## Emma

PredFan said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't get over the title of this thread..
> 
> *WHITE* man shoots innocent black man..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because media reported the shooter as white...because the police report described him as white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The father and the rest of the family, who should know btw, says he isn't white.
Click to expand...


Father and rest of family didn't write the police report.


----------



## Ravi

It's funny, I have a Peruvian friend and she considers herself white. I better give her a call....


----------



## Si modo

Stephanie said:


> Democrats-Progressives-lefties have no problem using a dead person for their agendas..
> 
> look what they did with Gabby Gifford's...
> 
> a couple weeks ago their panties were in a bunch over some 30 year old law student being called a name..
> 
> It just NEVER ends with these people


I don't think this is a _political_ agenda for many.  Of course it is for some on both sides of the political spectrum.  But, I'm finding in these threads discussing this case, that, for those interested in fact-finding, political leaning is irrelevant.  Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.

But, that's just my experience.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Si modo said:


> Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.



Law worked as intended if one party is found to have acted to stop great bodily harm or death. So far the evidence and tesitmony have led LE and State Attorney to have determined so.

If found otherwise conviction of acting outside of the confines of law do not the law make bad.


----------



## Liability

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof.  But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?


----------



## Si modo

Liability said:


> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> 
> A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof.  But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?


The police report indicates as much as well.  Which is likely why Zimmerman was detained, questioned, and released.


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats-Progressives-lefties have no problem using a dead person for their agendas..
> 
> look what they did with Gabby Gifford's...
> 
> a couple weeks ago their panties were in a bunch over some 30 year old law student being called a name..
> 
> It just NEVER ends with these people
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think this is a _political_ agenda for many.  Of course it is for some on both sides of the political spectrum.  But, I'm finding in these threads discussing this case, that, for those interested in fact-finding, political leaning is irrelevant.  Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.
> 
> But, that's just my experience.
Click to expand...

It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.


----------



## Peach

The Gadfly said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats-Progressives-lefties have no problem using a dead person for their agendas..
> 
> look what they did with Gabby Gifford's...
> 
> a couple weeks ago their panties were in a bunch over some 30 year old law student being called a name..
> 
> It just NEVER ends with these people
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think this is a _political_ agenda for many.  Of course it is for some on both sides of the political spectrum.  But, I'm finding in these threads discussing this case, that, for those interested in fact-finding, political leaning is irrelevant.  Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.
> 
> But, that's just my experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.
Click to expand...



This does not have to be a hate crime; it could be manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, or POSSIBLY 1st murder.


----------



## Meister

The facts now maybe starting to see the light of day.
*
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman*
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

*Witness who saw it all" claims Zimmerman yelled "HELP, HELP" as Trayvon "attacked" him*
"Witness who saw it all" claims Zimmerman yelled "HELP, HELP" as Trayvon "attacked" him - Democratic Underground


----------



## OODA_Loop

Facts are subjective now.

Sorry.


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats-Progressives-lefties have no problem using a dead person for their agendas..
> 
> look what they did with Gabby Gifford's...
> 
> a couple weeks ago their panties were in a bunch over some 30 year old law student being called a name..
> 
> It just NEVER ends with these people
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think this is a _political_ agenda for many.  Of course it is for some on both sides of the political spectrum.  But, I'm finding in these threads discussing this case, that, for those interested in fact-finding, political leaning is irrelevant.  Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.
> 
> But, that's just my experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, *which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows*. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.
Click to expand...

What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.


----------



## Dante

Ravi: Self Appointed Tribune of the Black Man in America


----------



## Dante

Si modo said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> 
> A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof.  But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?
> 
> 
> 
> The police report indicates as much as well.  Which is likely why Zimmerman was detained, questioned, and released.
Click to expand...


the media reported that a key witness being used to indict Zimmerman signed a statement supporting Zimmerman's account. This will not affect the myopic views of a MarcATL or a Ravi. 

Altered states do not recognize reality


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> 
> A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof.  But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?
> 
> 
> 
> The police report indicates as much as well.  Which is likely why Zimmerman was detained, questioned, and released.
Click to expand...

But other witnesses contradict him.

Anderson Cooper Interviews Witnesses To Trayvon Martin Shooting | Mediaite

Obviously, someone is wrong.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Liability said:


> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> 
> A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof.  But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?



I'm not sure what the report says. I saw this article today.

If the report is quoted correctly in the article, it may absolutely DESTROY the case against Zimmerman (even though the case was pretty weak in the first place). The grand jury will not even indict him.

The article itself is bias. It says that the witness claims "Martin attacked Zimmerman" and the witness saw it all. From what it quotes it seems like the witness came outside DURING the scuffle... and would not be able to tell us who actually started it, and Zimmy would have to say Trayvon started it (which he did).

At this point though, because of this testimony, it doesn't matter who threw the first punch, or who made the confrontation physical, the witness saw Zimmerman on the ground. The fact is yes Zimmy was an idiot for following Trayvon, yes Trayvon may have thought he was in danger because there was a random man following him. Trayvon may have acted on this or Zimmy may have attacked Trayvon to keep him from getting away (or all black males ARE actually mindless thugs and Trayvon just got bored and wanted to rob some random hispanic guy on his way back from 7-eleven...IDK). Zimmy may have started a fight and bit off more then he could chew. BUT Trayvon can't tell his side because he's dead, and a dead man can't testify in court... so without actual evidence this case may go down with this new testimony, and it should. The law is the law for a reason, to protect the innocent, does it make it a perfect system? No. But humanity is flawed and limited so any system we created will be as well. Unfortunetly the Jury can'y be omnipresent so they wouldn't be able to know exactly what happened.


----------



## Dante

> *But one man's testimony could be key for the police.
> *
> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help&#8230;and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
> 
> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
> 
> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.


Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

from police report - not from Ravi's hate infected brain:

"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." 

At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

--

* the young man starts a verbal confrontation. Zimmerman knows the police are on the way. So who would have started a physical confrontation?*


----------



## Ravi

uptownlivin90 said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> 
> A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof.  But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what the report says. I saw this article today.
> 
> If the report is quoted correctly in the article, it may absolutely DESTROY the case against Zimmerman (even though the case was pretty weak in the first place). The grand jury will not even indict him.
> 
> The article itself is bias. It says that the witness claims "Martin attacked Zimmerman" and the witness saw it all. From what it quotes it seems like the witness came outside DURING the scuffle... and would not be able to tell us who actually started it, and Zimmy would have to say Trayvon started it (which he did).
> 
> At this point though, because of this testimony, it doesn't matter who threw the first punch, or who made the confrontation physical, the witness saw Zimmerman on the ground. The fact is yes Zimmy was an idiot for following Trayvon, yes Trayvon may have thought he was in danger because there was a random man following him. Trayvon may have acted on this or Zimmy may have attacked Trayvon to keep him from getting away (or all black males ARE actually mindless thugs and Trayvon just got bored and wanted to rob some random hispanic guy on his way back from 7-eleven...IDK). Zimmy may have started a fight and bit off more then he could chew. BUT Trayvon can't tell his side because he's dead, and a dead man can't testify in court... so without actual evidence this case may go down with this new testimony, and it should. The law is the law for a reason, to protect the innocent, does it make it a perfect system? No. But humanity is flawed and limited so any system we created will be as well. Unfortunetly the Jury can'y be omnipresent so they wouldn't be able to know exactly what happened.
Click to expand...

You are right with your point that this witnesses account doesn't show who started it.

Regardless, two witnesses contradict his account:


> We were in the kitchen, with the window open and the blinds pulled. So we had complete view from outside, Cutcher explained.
> 
> Cooper asked her what was the first thing she saw.
> 
> By that time, you hear like a shot  like some other noise, Lamilla described.
> 
> You heard the gunshot? Cooper interjected.
> 
> Yeah, I run away from my backyard and when I just get into the point of my  like my screen, it stopped me, I look at the person on his knees on top of a body, Lamilla elaborated.
> 
> So you saw Mr. Zimmerman on top of Trayvon Martin? Cooper questioned.
> 
> Trayvon, exactly, Lamilla said.
> 
> When you say on top of, how so? the CNN anchor pressed.
> 
> Straddling him, Cutcher replied.
> 
> His legs were straddling him? Cooper followed up.
> 
> One on each side, on his knees, with his hands on his back. I immediately thought, okay, obviously if its the shooter, he would have ran, Cutcher detailed. I thought hes holding the wound, helping the guy taking a pulse, making sure hes okay. When she called to him three times, everything okay, whats going on? Each time he looked back, didnt say anything and then the third time he finally said, just call the police.



Anderson Cooper Interviews Witnesses To Trayvon Martin Shooting | Mediaite


----------



## Peach

Dante said:


> *But one man's testimony could be key for the police.
> *
> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, helpand I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
> 
> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
> 
> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.
> 
> 
> 
> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> 
> from police report - not from Ravi's hate infected brain:
> 
> "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."
> 
> At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."
> 
> --
> 
> * the young man starts a verbal confrontation. Zimmerman knows the police are on the way. So who would have started a physical confrontation?*
Click to expand...


"Why are you following me" is a verbal confrontation? The victim was on his cell phone HIDING from Zimmerman:

"*He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on.* He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

(EMPHASIS ADDED)

Trayvon Martin Arrest Now After ABC Reveals Crucial Phone Call - ABC News


----------



## The Gadfly

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think this is a _political_ agenda for many.  Of course it is for some on both sides of the political spectrum.  But, I'm finding in these threads discussing this case, that, for those interested in fact-finding, political leaning is irrelevant.  Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.
> 
> But, that's just my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, *which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows*. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.
Click to expand...


The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, *which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows*. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.
> 
> 
> 
> What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.
Click to expand...

No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Peach said:


> Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.



Not really.

There isn't a place to *corner him* where it went down.


----------



## The Gadfly

Peach said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *But one man's testimony could be key for the police.
> *
> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, helpand I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
> 
> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
> 
> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.
> 
> 
> 
> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> 
> from police report - not from Ravi's hate infected brain:
> 
> "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."
> 
> At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."
> 
> --
> 
> * the young man starts a verbal confrontation. Zimmerman knows the police are on the way. So who would have started a physical confrontation?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Why are you following me" is a verbal confrontation? The victim was on his cell phone HIDING from Zimmerman:
> 
> "*He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on.* He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."
> 
> Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
> 
> "Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."
> 
> The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.
> 
> (EMPHASIS ADDED)
> 
> Trayvon Martin Arrest Now After ABC Reveals Crucial Phone Call - ABC News
Click to expand...


How can you "hear somebody pushing" over a cell phone,  Peach? What "sound" does a push or a shove make, exactly? Is it just possible that when he was asked "What are you doing here?" Martin dropped the phone and struck Zimmerman?


----------



## uptownlivin90

OODA_Loop said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> There isn't a place to *corner him* where it went down.
Click to expand...


That could very well be a figure of speech.


----------



## OODA_Loop

uptownlivin90 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> There isn't a place to *corner him* where it went down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That could very well be a figure of speech.
Click to expand...


No it is critical.

If he was cornered.

But he couldn't have been.

He ran.

And he stopped and made contact.


----------



## The Gadfly

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.
Click to expand...


Yu know perfectly well what I mean Ravi; the older picture makes him look like a younger teen (about the age I stated; which he probably was, when it was taken). The one in the hoodie shows an older teen (if I did not know who it was, I'd say he looks to be in the 17-19 age group in that one; a teen, but an older teen). However, it's been the pictures of the MUCH younger Trayvon that have been widely circulated, and I believe that's been done with intent to misrepresent those images as current. A 17 year old IS a young man; old enough to join the military until recently, old enough to be tried as an adult, within one year of being eligible to vote or serve on a jury, or be emancipated, old enough to be of average adult size, and old enough to marry in many states. A 17 year old may be legally a minor in some respects, but is definitely not "a child" in the sense that a 13 year old is.


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yu know perfectly well what I mean Ravi; the older picture makes him look like a younger teen (about the age I stated; which he probably was, when it was taken). The one in the hoodie shows an older teen (if I did not know who it was, I'd say he looks to be in the 17-19 age group in that one; a teen, but an older teen). However, it's been the pictures of the MUCH younger Trayvon that have been widely circulated, and I believe that's been done with intent to misrepresent those images as current. A 17 year old IS a young man; old enough to join the military until recently, old enough to be tried as an adult, within one year of being eligible to vote or serve on a jury, or be emancipated, old enough to be of average adult size, and old enough to marry in many states. A 17 year old may be legally a minor in some respects, but is definitely not "a child" in the sense that a 13 year old is.
Click to expand...

And yet the picture of him in the hoodie is the one all the people at the rallies are wearing....so why you're saying it isn't widely circulated is a mystery.

And I have to laugh here that some on this board have seen that picture of him in his football jersey, an obviously underweight KID, and concluded that he's a hulking football player.


----------



## uptownlivin90

OODA_Loop said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> There isn't a place to *corner him* where it went down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That could very well be a figure of speech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it is critical.
> 
> If he was cornered.
> 
> But he couldn't have been.
> 
> He ran.
> 
> And he stopped and made contact.
Click to expand...


He stopped and confronted the man. He asked him a question. 

We don't know who initiated physical contact. Nice try though.


----------



## Dante

uptownlivin90 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That could very well be a figure of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it is critical.
> 
> If he was cornered.
> 
> But he couldn't have been.
> 
> He ran.
> 
> And he stopped and made contact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He stopped and confronted the man. He asked him a question.
> 
> We don't know who initiated physical contact. Nice try though.
Click to expand...




uptownlivin90 said:


> Trayvon did initial verbal confrontation....



keeper for the Dante files  

and Occam's razor


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> And yet the picture of him in the hoodie is the one all the people at the rallies are wearing....so why you're saying it isn't widely circulated is a mystery.
> 
> And I have to laugh here that some on this board have seen that picture of him in his football jersey, an obviously underweight KID, and concluded that he's a hulking football player.



Ravi continues his inanities. 





By bdc_dante at 2012-03-23


----------



## Ariux

The Gadfly said:


> How can you "hear somebody pushing" over a cell phone,  Peach? What "sound" does a push or a shove make, exactly? Is it just possible that when he was asked "What are you doing here?" Martin dropped the phone and struck Zimmerman?



Regarding what the black's female said, given that she wasn't there and that she wouldn't say anything that would reflect badly on her black, her statement isn't worth piss.

When she says the black asked Zimmerman if he were following him, does she know if the black approached Zimmerman to ask this?  Does she say or know how far away Zimmerman was when the black asked?  If she thinks they were next to each other, given that she thinks Zimmerman knocked down the black, why didn't she say anything about how they came in such close proximity?   I mean, if I were a scared black and a white man came up to me, I'd say "The f-f-fucking cracker is walking over to me... I'm going to fuck him up [bravado for his bitch]." (You'll have to do the Ebonics translation yourself.)


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yu know perfectly well what I mean Ravi; the older picture makes him look like a younger teen (about the age I stated; which he probably was, when it was taken). The one in the hoodie shows an older teen (if I did not know who it was, I'd say he looks to be in the 17-19 age group in that one; a teen, but an older teen). However, it's been the pictures of the MUCH younger Trayvon that have been widely circulated, and I believe that's been done with intent to misrepresent those images as current. A 17 year old IS a young man; old enough to join the military until recently, old enough to be tried as an adult, within one year of being eligible to vote or serve on a jury, or be emancipated, old enough to be of average adult size, and old enough to marry in many states. A 17 year old may be legally a minor in some respects, but is definitely not "a child" in the sense that a 13 year old is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet the picture of him in the hoodie is the one all the people at the rallies are wearing....so why you're saying it isn't widely circulated is a mystery.
> 
> And I have to laugh here that some on this board have seen that picture of him in his football jersey, an obviously underweight KID, and concluded that he's a hulking football player.
Click to expand...

He's wiry.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN7r7nk0-zc]The Replacements - Meet Nigel Gruff - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Crackerjack

OODA_Loop said:


> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> _I know..... they are racists covering it up._





OODA_Loop said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Mr. Zimmermans claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon. I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.
> 
> To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story, _
> 
> Bill Lee, Sanford Police Chief
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
Click to expand...

Your link quotes the police chief but not a "state attorney."

Any link to support the latter?


----------



## OODA_Loop

Crackerjack said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> _I know..... they are racists covering it up._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link quotes the police chief but not a "state attorney."
> 
> Any link to support the latter?
Click to expand...


The State Attorney reviewed the investigation referenced by the Chief and did what ?

Not arrest Zimmerman.


----------



## The Gadfly

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yu know perfectly well what I mean Ravi; the older picture makes him look like a younger teen (about the age I stated; which he probably was, when it was taken). The one in the hoodie shows an older teen (if I did not know who it was, I'd say he looks to be in the 17-19 age group in that one; a teen, but an older teen). However, it's been the pictures of the MUCH younger Trayvon that have been widely circulated, and I believe that's been done with intent to misrepresent those images as current. A 17 year old IS a young man; old enough to join the military until recently, old enough to be tried as an adult, within one year of being eligible to vote or serve on a jury, or be emancipated, old enough to be of average adult size, and old enough to marry in many states. A 17 year old may be legally a minor in some respects, but is definitely not "a child" in the sense that a 13 year old is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet the picture of him in the hoodie is the one all the people at the rallies are wearing....so why you're saying it isn't widely circulated is a mystery.
> 
> And I have to laugh here that some on this board have seen that picture of him in his football jersey, an obviously underweight KID, and concluded that he's a hulking football player.
Click to expand...

Which picture of Martin is on the handout the NBPP put out? ( the "Wanted Dead or Alive" one" Go over to that thread and look.


----------



## The T

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously". He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid. He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date? The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...

Are YOU shitting feathers yet with the CROW you've been eating?

Must be terribly _painful isn't it?_


----------



## PredFan

OODA_Loop said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> _I know..... they are racists covering it up._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link quotes the police chief but not a "state attorney."
> 
> Any link to support the latter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The State Attorney reviewed the investigation referenced by the Chief and did what ?
> 
> Not arrest Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


I'm sure that at some point he'll be called a racist. If they don't get a conviction no matter what the truth is, it will be because of racism. I guarantee it.


----------



## Ariux

PredFan said:


> I'm sure that at some point he'll be called a racist. If they don't get a conviction no matter what the truth is, it will be because of racism. I guarantee it.



Predictions about he future?  I bet next summer we're going to have a least one day with temperatures above freezing.


----------



## Liability

Ariux said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure that at some point he'll be called a racist. If they don't get a conviction no matter what the truth is, it will be because of racism. I guarantee it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Predictions about he future?  I bet next summer we're going to have a least one day with temperatures above freezing.
Click to expand...


way to go out on a limb.


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yu know perfectly well what I mean Ravi; the older picture makes him look like a younger teen (about the age I stated; which he probably was, when it was taken). The one in the hoodie shows an older teen (if I did not know who it was, I'd say he looks to be in the 17-19 age group in that one; a teen, but an older teen). However, it's been the pictures of the MUCH younger Trayvon that have been widely circulated, and I believe that's been done with intent to misrepresent those images as current. A 17 year old IS a young man; old enough to join the military until recently, old enough to be tried as an adult, within one year of being eligible to vote or serve on a jury, or be emancipated, old enough to be of average adult size, and old enough to marry in many states. A 17 year old may be legally a minor in some respects, but is definitely not "a child" in the sense that a 13 year old is.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet the picture of him in the hoodie is the one all the people at the rallies are wearing....so why you're saying it isn't widely circulated is a mystery.
> 
> And I have to laugh here that some on this board have seen that picture of him in his football jersey, an obviously underweight KID, and concluded that he's a hulking football player.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which picture of Martin is on the handout the NBPP put out? ( the "Wanted Dead or Alive" one" Go over to that thread and look.
Click to expand...


I haven't read that thread. If the NBPP did that, they should get arrested for inciting violence. But what they did doesn't mean the hoodie pic hasn't been widely circulated. It was in fact the first one I saw associated with this incident.


----------



## Article 15

All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds

Jesus fuck


----------



## Zander

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R22qeOtwPNY]Jesus Fuck! - Jesus and mary chain - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dante

great tags: the black lynch mob after zimmerman
,
florida man shoots teen
,
the marcatl let's lynch white man zimmerman
,


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Dante said:


> great tags: the black lynch mob after zimmerman
> ,
> florida man shoots teen
> ,
> the marcatl let's lynch white man zimmerman
> ,



Zimmerman is Hispanic you fucking dumb ass racist.


----------



## Crackerjack

OODA_Loop said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police chief and state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death.
> 
> _I know..... they are racists covering it up._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link quotes the police chief but not a "state attorney."
> 
> Any link to support the latter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The State Attorney reviewed the investigation referenced by the Chief and did what ?
> 
> Not arrest Zimmerman.
Click to expand...

That does not necessarily mean that the "state attorney found Zimmerman's injuries rose to the level to support imminent fear of great bodily harm or death."  He may have found other reasons to determine that the shooting was in self defense, or he may have declined to prosecute for lack of evidence.

This is why you were asked to provide a link.


----------



## ABikerSailor

You know..........if George Zimmerman decides to go out in public, I really hope that nobody decides to kill or string him up.

However...........................................

If they wanna kick his ass and put him in the hospital on a daily basis?

I approve.


----------



## Dante

*White man shoots innocent black teen....*



bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> great tags: the black lynch mob after zimmerman
> ,
> florida man shoots teen
> ,
> the marcatl let's lynch white man zimmerman
> ,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is Hispanic you fucking dumb ass racist.
Click to expand...


yeah, and the tags are funny because people here kept referring to Zimmerman as the white guy..and in your brilliance you neglected to pay attention to the details like...uhm....err....ahhh....errr...uhm,...

the title of this thread?


----------



## Annie

Seriously, the racists are not only in FL, if that were the case. You folks take the cake.


----------



## Article 15

Article 15 said:


> All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds
> 
> Jesus fuck



Seriously


----------



## Lovebears65

You know I feel for this family and I also  think something should be done but why the hell is this on a political board.. Just sayin


----------



## mudwhistle

Lovebears65 said:


> You know I feel for this family and I also  think something should be done but why the hell is this on a political board.. Just sayin



Because right or wrong don't matter anymore.....only politics.


----------



## Peach

Article 15 said:


> All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds
> 
> Jesus fuck




Discussion of the young man's death is insane?


----------



## PredFan

Peach said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds
> 
> Jesus fuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discussion of the young man's death is insane?
Click to expand...


Things have gotten too logical and too reasonable in 99 threads on this subject. Thank God Article is back to add some abjectly stupid statements to bring us back to normalcy.


----------



## Rocko

Article 15 said:


> All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds
> 
> Jesus fuck



especially your buds...right?


----------



## Article 15

Barry44sucks said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds
> 
> Jesus fuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> especially your buds...right?
Click to expand...


No, all y'all are equally disgusting.


----------



## paulitician

Bitter Ex-Mod failure hissy fit. Classic stuff. But please, do go on. You're crackin us up.


----------



## Liability

ABikerSailor said:


> You know..........if George Zimmerman decides to go out in public, I really hope that nobody decides to kill or string him up.
> 
> However...........................................
> 
> If they wanna kick his ass and put him in the hospital on a daily basis?
> 
> I approve.



So that whole "presumption of guilt" thing is working for you, eh?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Yep the family is going to say Trayvon was suspended because of a school policy, but schools don't suspend good kids for 10 days because of a violation of school policy. 



> Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
> 
> Trayvon&#8217;s parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio.



Trayvon Martin - The New York Times


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Dante said:


> *White man shoots innocent black teen....*
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> great tags: the black lynch mob after zimmerman
> ,
> florida man shoots teen
> ,
> the marcatl let's lynch white man zimmerman
> ,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is Hispanic you fucking dumb ass racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah, and the tags are funny because people here kept referring to Zimmerman as the white guy..and in your brilliance you neglected to pay attention to the details like...uhm....err....ahhh....errr...uhm,...
> 
> the title of this thread?
Click to expand...

Racist.


----------



## Trajan

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...


what a conundrum for the left- zimmerman has a Latina mother, black relatives and LOOKS Hispanic too.....my my my...they will twist themselves into pretzels ...


----------



## SFC Ollie




----------



## Ravi

SFC Ollie said:


>



That's a different Trayvon Martin.

So sad.


----------



## Rocko

Article 15 said:


> Barry44sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds
> 
> Jesus fuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> especially your buds...right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, all y'all are equally disgusting.
Click to expand...


Nice to see someone so virtuously above the fray.


----------



## paulitician

Article 15 said:


> Barry44sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All y'all have lost your fuggin' minds
> 
> Jesus fuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> especially your buds...right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, all y'all are equally disgusting.
Click to expand...


Nah, that's just you being the bitter Ex-Mod failure you are. You need to lighten up Francis. Or maybe it's time for you to retire from the Message Board World. Failing miserably as a Message Board Mod, is a pretty big sign you're not cut out for Message Boards. You just don't add anything to discussions. It's time for you to face it, you're just not Message Board material. So good luck and enjoy your retirement.


----------



## Ravi

paulitician said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barry44sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> especially your buds...right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, all y'all are equally disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, that's just you being the bitter Ex-Mod failure you are. You need to lighten up Francis. Or maybe it's time for you to retire from the Message Board World. Failing miserably as a Message Board Mod, is a pretty big sign you're not cut out for Message Boards. You just don't add anything to discussions. It's time for you to face it, you're just not Message Board material. So good luck and enjoy your retirement.
Click to expand...

That's some funny shit right there.

You are one delusional dope.


----------



## whitehall

Amazing what the liberal media can do when they set their minds to create outrage. We had a whole week of outrage about a tragic shooting in Florida but everybody conveniently forgot the about Major Hasan who murdered 13 of his own men and wounded another 31 in a terrorist shooting spree three years ago.


----------



## paulitician

Ravi said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, all y'all are equally disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, that's just you being the bitter Ex-Mod failure you are. You need to lighten up Francis. Or maybe it's time for you to retire from the Message Board World. Failing miserably as a Message Board Mod, is a pretty big sign you're not cut out for Message Boards. You just don't add anything to discussions. It's time for you to face it, you're just not Message Board material. So good luck and enjoy your retirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's some funny shit right there.
> 
> You are one delusional dope.
Click to expand...


It is funny right? And your repetitive snotty retorts are just as lame as him being a bitter Ex-Mod failure. So get some some new material. You desperately need it.


----------



## Dante

several black residents of the neighborhood where Martin was shot have only good things to say about Zimmerman.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> No, all y'all are equally disgusting.



True, both left and right have hit a new low of idiocy. And in this partisan war, as with all wars, truth is the first casualty  with the law a close second.  



> You just don't add anything to discussions.



Posting stones from a glass house.


----------



## paulitician

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> No, all y'all are equally disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, both left and right have hit a new low of idiocy. And in this partisan war, as with all wars, truth is the first casualty  with the law a close second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just don't add anything to discussions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Posting stones from a glass house.
Click to expand...


Yeah right, i bet you're glued to CNN & NBC 24/7, fully enjoying all their hysterical Race-Baiting. You're not fooling anyone. So you can hop off your high-horse now.


----------



## Si modo

How very, very irresponsible our "press" is.

Being a journalist used to be an honorable metier.


----------



## Peach

paulitician said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, all y'all are equally disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, both left and right have hit a new low of idiocy. And in this partisan war, as with all wars, truth is the first casualty  with the law a close second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just don't add anything to discussions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Posting stones from a glass house.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah right, i bet you're glued to CNN & NBC 24/7, fully enjoying all their hysterical Race-Baiting. You're not fooling anyone. So you can hop off your high-horse now.
Click to expand...


NewsMax joined the fray of course:

Bondi Vows 'No Stone Unturned' in Trayvon Investigation


----------



## bigrebnc1775

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Yep the family is going to say Trayvon was suspended because of a school policy, but schools don't suspend good kids for 10 days because of a violation of school policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
> 
> Trayvons parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin - The New York Times
Click to expand...


Trayvon may have not been the little darling the media is portraying  him as


----------



## Ariux

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Trayvon may have not been the little darling the media is portraying  him as



We know that the black, this year alone, has earned numerous school detentions and suspensions.  And, notice how none of the pictures released to the public appear recent, to promote a child-like image?


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep the family is going to say Trayvon was suspended because of a school policy, but schools don't suspend good kids for 10 days because of a violation of school policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
> 
> Trayvons parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin - The New York Times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon may have not been the little darling the media is portraying  him as
Click to expand...

And, he may be exactly that.


----------



## Amelia

Dante said:


> several black residents of the neighborhood where Martin was shot have only good things to say about Zimmerman.





... oh like the guy who couldn't put his finger on anything bad about Zimmerman but decided that it would be better for him to drive someplace else when he wanted exercise instead of walk around his own neighborhood because of Zimmerman's profiling activities.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ariux said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon may have not been the little darling the media is portraying  him as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We know that the black, this year alone, has earned numerous school detentions and suspensions.  And, notice how none of the pictures released to the public appear recent, to promote a child-like image?
Click to expand...


My reply does not mention all black nor should it be thought of that way. It deals with this one teenager.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep the family is going to say Trayvon was suspended because of a school policy, but schools don't suspend good kids for 10 days because of a violation of school policy.
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin - The New York Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon may have not been the little darling the media is portraying  him as
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And, he may be exactly that.
Click to expand...


Does a school suspend a good kid for 10 days  for a "school policy violation"?


----------



## Trajan

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon may have not been the little darling the media is portraying  him as
> 
> 
> 
> And, he may be exactly that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does a school suspend a good kid for 10 days  for a "school policy violation"?
Click to expand...


yes they do, we have all seen stupid unwarranted suspensions etc. , do we know WHY he was suspended? he could have spit on the sidewalk ...*shrugs*


----------



## paulitician

Trajan said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what a conundrum for the left- zimmerman has a Latina mother, black relatives and LOOKS Hispanic too.....my my my...they will twist themselves into pretzels ...
Click to expand...


Yup, that's why the Liberal Media cretins over at CNN & NBC keep calling him 'White.' That fits in much better with their Race-Baiting political agenda. He can't be Hispanic. It doesn't fit in with their agenda. It's either 'Evil Whitey kills Black Kid', or nothing for them. They're a sad disgrace.


----------



## Ariux

bigrebnc1775 said:


> My reply does not mention all black nor should it be thought of that way. It deals with this one teenager.



You call him a teenager.  I call him a black.  Isn't race the bigger issue?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ariux said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My reply does not mention all black nor should it be thought of that way. It deals with this one teenager.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You call him a teenager.  I call him a black.  Isn't race the bigger issue?
Click to expand...


Race has nothing to do with my reply.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Trajan said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, he may be exactly that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does a school suspend a good kid for 10 days  for a "school policy violation"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes they do, we have all seen stupid unwarranted suspensions etc. , do we know WHY he was suspended? he could have spit on the sidewalk ...*shrugs*
Click to expand...


10 days? I don't know what schools system you live in but kids around here aren't suspend for 10 just for violation of a school policy.


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does a school suspend a good kid for 10 days  for a "school policy violation"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes they do, we have all seen stupid unwarranted suspensions etc. , do we know WHY he was suspended? he could have spit on the sidewalk ...*shrugs*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10 days? I don't know what schools system you lie in but kids around here aren't not suspend for 10 just for violation of a school policy.
Click to expand...


His english teacher said he was suspended for five days for tardiness.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes they do, we have all seen stupid unwarranted suspensions etc. , do we know WHY he was suspended? he could have spit on the sidewalk ...*shrugs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10 days? I don't know what schools system you lie in but kids around here aren't not suspend for 10 just for violation of a school policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His english teacher said he was suspended for five days for tardiness.
Click to expand...


Take it up with the NYT they reported 10 days per the link I posted.

However you can site your source can't you?


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 days? I don't know what schools system you lie in but kids around here aren't not suspend for 10 just for violation of a school policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His english teacher said he was suspended for five days for tardiness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with the NYT they reported 10 days per the link I posted.
> 
> However you can site your source can't you?
Click to expand...

I sure can.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> His english teacher said he was suspended for five days for tardiness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it up with the NYT they reported 10 days per the link I posted.
> 
> However you can site your source can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I sure can.
Click to expand...


You posted 
I sure can but never left a source, color me shocked.


----------



## paulitician

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 days? I don't know what schools system you lie in but kids around here aren't not suspend for 10 just for violation of a school policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His english teacher said he was suspended for five days for tardiness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with the NYT they reported 10 days per the link I posted.
> 
> However you can site your source can't you?
Click to expand...


Ravi is a raving White Liberal lunatic. So you're not gonna get anywhere with her. She has her script, and she always sticks to it. All you can expect from her is repetitive snotty retorts. That's all she's got. So don't invest too much time trying to reason with her. Cause that just aint gonna happen. But good effort though.


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take it up with the NYT they reported 10 days per the link I posted.
> 
> However you can site your source can't you?
> 
> 
> 
> I sure can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You posted
> I sure can but never left a source, color me shocked.
Click to expand...

I left it out purposely. It's very easy to find on google, even for one such as yourself. I know when you find it you will come back here and declare that Obama forced her to say it.



pssst.....Trayvon was killed because he had Obama's real birth certificate!!!


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I sure can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You posted
> I sure can but never left a source, color me shocked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I left it out purposely. It's very easy to find on google, even for one such as yourself. I know when you find it you will come back here and declare that Obama forced her to say it.
> 
> 
> 
> pssst.....Trayvon was killed because he had Obama's real birth certificate!!!
Click to expand...


Thats not how it works. You make a claim YOU need to site your source. I did.


----------



## paulitician

Ravi said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I sure can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You posted
> I sure can but never left a source, color me shocked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I left it out purposely. It's very easy to find on google, even for one such as yourself. I know when you find it you will come back here and declare that Obama forced her to say it.
> 
> 
> 
> pssst.....Trayvon was killed because he had Obama's real birth certificate!!!
Click to expand...


 Classic Ravi the Raving Lunatic dodge. What a nutter.


----------



## Valerie

_Trayvon  who was known as "Tray" or "Slimm"  played youth football during his early teens and helped his father coach Little League baseball, said Fulton, whose sister, Sybrina Fulton, is Trayvon's mother.

*Trayvon was under a five-day suspension* when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.

"Trayvon was not a violent or dangerous child. He was not known for misbehaving," the teacher said. *"He was suspended because he was late too many times."*
_


Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## paulitician

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You posted
> I sure can but never left a source, color me shocked.
> 
> 
> 
> I left it out purposely. It's very easy to find on google, even for one such as yourself. I know when you find it you will come back here and declare that Obama forced her to say it.
> 
> 
> 
> pssst.....Trayvon was killed because he had Obama's real birth certificate!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats not how it works. You make a claim YOU need to site your source. I did.
Click to expand...


 All she has is her repetitive snotty retorts. A One-Trick Pony fo sho. So don't wait too long for a coherent & rational reply. Aint gonna happen.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Hey Ravi here is the DR. MICHAEL M. KROP SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL  Attendance and Tardy Policies. Where does it say a student will be suspended for being tardy?

http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information Files/Attendance-Tardy-Policies.pdf

I may have over looked it, I am sure you will point me in the right direction.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Hey Ravi here is the DR. MICHAEL M. KROP SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL  Attendance and Tardy Policies. Where does it say a student will be suspended for being tardy?
> 
> http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information Files/Attendance-Tardy-Policies.pdf
> 
> I may have over looked it, I am sure you will point me in the right direction.





"Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Ravi here is the DR. MICHAEL M. KROP SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL  Attendance and Tardy Policies. Where does it say a student will be suspended for being tardy?
> 
> http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information Files/Attendance-Tardy-Policies.pdf
> 
> I may have over looked it, I am sure you will point me in the right direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."
Click to expand...



This is what it says

B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to 
participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of 
the school year


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> Yeah right, i bet you're glued to CNN & NBC 24/7, fully enjoying all their hysterical Race-Baiting. You're not fooling anyone. So you can hop off your high-horse now.


Still not adding anything to the discussion. 

For the right Zimmerman is the victim of liberals and the media who see racism where it doesnt exist. 

For the left Martin is the victim of a society numb and indifferent to the killing of young black males, to the point where justice seems no longer possible. 

And for both factions, the truth and law need not apply.


----------



## Katzndogz

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Yep the family is going to say Trayvon was suspended because of a school policy, but schools don't suspend good kids for 10 days because of a violation of school policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
> 
> Trayvons parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin - The New York Times
Click to expand...


Ooooooohhhhhhhhh not so good.  The voice pleading for his life has already been identified as Zimmerman's.


----------



## paulitician

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yeah right, i bet you're glued to CNN & NBC 24/7, fully enjoying all their hysterical Race-Baiting. You're not fooling anyone. So you can hop off your high-horse now.
> 
> 
> 
> Still not adding anything to the discussion.
> 
> For the right Zimmerman is the victim of liberals and the media who see racism where it doesnt exist.
> 
> For the left Martin is the victim of a society numb and indifferent to the killing of young black males, to the point where justice seems no longer possible.
> 
> And for both factions, the truth and law need not apply.
Click to expand...


Then why come to a Message Board? It is a place to express opinions no? If you don't like seeing others' opinions on issues, I suggest you no longer frequent Message Boards. I mean, it is what it is. So either contribute, or simply go away. There's no in-between.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Ravi here is the DR. MICHAEL M. KROP SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL  Attendance and Tardy Policies. Where does it say a student will be suspended for being tardy?
> 
> http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information Files/Attendance-Tardy-Policies.pdf
> 
> I may have over looked it, I am sure you will point me in the right direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it says
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
Click to expand...



That is in the section about how tardiness affects participation in interscholastic activities.  It is not a summary of all the penalties for excessive tardiness.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it says
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is in the section about how tardiness affects participation in interscholastic activities.  It is not a summary of all the penalties for excessive tardiness.
Click to expand...


Where does it say what the penalties are other than part B the part I posted? Suspending a kid for 10 days because they were tardy it would give a number of days for being suspended.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.

&#8220;He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn&#8217;t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],&#8221; Martin said, declining to offer more details.

Read more here: Trayvon Martin: a typical teen who loved video games, looked forward to prom - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## Ariux

SFC Ollie said:


> Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.



We know that the African had been given numerous detentions and suspensions, including the 10-day suspension he was on at the time he assaulted Zimmerman.  But, before you say the African's behavioral issues were non-violent, let's see his school record.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it says
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is in the section about how tardiness affects participation in interscholastic activities.  It is not a summary of all the penalties for excessive tardiness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where does it say what the penalties are other than part B the part I posted? Suspending a kid for 10 days because they were tardy it would give a number of days for being suspended.
Click to expand...




Section II. A. 2. c. of the School Tardy Policy.  

"Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."




The section you cited is about the effect of tardiness on participation in competitions and performances.  What about students who aren't on any teams?  Are there no penalties if they are tardy?  Clearly there would be.   And that is covered by the statement I quoted.


----------



## The Gadfly

Ariux said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My reply does not mention all black nor should it be thought of that way. It deals with this one teenager.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You call him a teenager.  I call him a black.  Isn't race the bigger issue?
Click to expand...


NO! It shouldn't be, either. It does not matter what race either Martin or Zimmerman belong to, and it does not matter what race anyone investigating the incident belongs to either. This is not about race, it is about the law, and trying to achieve justice through due process, NOT through vigilantism, or a lynch mob. 

Of course, race does matter here; it matters to racial bigots on BOTH sides, like you and Salt, different sides of the same bad penny. It matters to Left-wing political hacks ready and only too willing to use the race card to promote a political cause (and as a smokescreen for their own failed ideology and policies. It matters to a predatory media, eager to promote emotionalism, sensationalism, and even violence, at the expense of truth and due process...as long as it sells. It matters to the hustlers and pimps who make a living out of not only exploiting, but actually promoting and pandering to, the worst instincts and fears of people on BOTH sides of America's racial divide. It matters, to fringe groups like the NBPP.

To those of us concerned with the truth of this tragedy, the bigger issue is equal justice under the law. It's about the fact that all of us are, and must be, equal before the law, and entitled to the same rights and protections under the law, no matter what color skin we were born with.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Ariux said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We know that the African had been given numerous detentions and suspensions, including the 10-day suspension he was on at the time he assaulted Zimmerman.  But, before you say the African's behavioral issues were non-violent, let's see his school record.
Click to expand...


First off, he was American, not African. Take that racist shit and stick it where the sun don't shine.

And secondly All I did was post the article as it was written........


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is in the section about how tardiness affects participation in interscholastic activities.  It is not a summary of all the penalties for excessive tardiness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say what the penalties are other than part B the part I posted? Suspending a kid for 10 days because they were tardy it would give a number of days for being suspended.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section II. A. 2. c. of the School Tardy Policy.
> 
> "Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The section you cited is about the effect of tardiness on participation in competitions and performances.  What about students who aren't on any teams?  Are there no penalties if they are tardy?  Clearly there would be.   And that is covered by the statement I quoted.
Click to expand...


And this is the penalty

B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to 
participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of 
the school year


----------



## PredFan

What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

PredFan said:


> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.



OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.


----------



## PredFan

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.
Click to expand...


That's true I suppose.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

From another source According to this source he was suspended for behavior issues

A commentor added a current copy of the policies for the Michael M. Krop Senior High School to this post.  Since this post was originally made, we have learned that Trayvon Martin was suspended from Michael M.Krop High School to an alternative school for teens with behavioral issues. 

Trayvon Martin Suspension | conservativejock


----------



## ABikerSailor

whitehall said:


> Amazing what the liberal media can do when they set their minds to create outrage. We had a whole week of outrage about a tragic shooting in Florida but everybody conveniently forgot the about Major Hasan who murdered 13 of his own men and wounded another 31 in a terrorist shooting spree three years ago.



Hey stupid........there WAS outrage when he shot those people, and interestingly enough, Major Hasan WAS LOCKED THE FUCK UP AFTER THE SHOOTING.

The outrage will continue until Zimmerman is charged and jailed.

Hasan has been locked up, Zimmerman is still free, see the difference?


----------



## saveliberty

46 911 calls in 57 days from Zimmerman.  The guy has looking for a reason to shoot someone.  The sooner we lock up this cold blooded killer the better.


----------



## PredFan

saveliberty said:


> 46 911 calls in 57 days from Zimmerman.  The guy has looking for a reason to shoot someone.  The sooner we lock up this cold blooded killer the better.



Actually, that shows that he was doing his job as the neighborhood watch guy. It is his job to call police. Had he simply called for the 58th time instead of persuing, then this would have gone differently.

I have seen stats that say that there had been numerous break-ins in that community recently. Sounds like Zimmerman was on the ball.


----------



## ABikerSailor

saveliberty said:


> 46 911 calls in 57 days from Zimmerman.  The guy has looking for a reason to shoot someone.  The sooner we lock up this cold blooded killer the better.



And, don't forget, on the phone call Zimmerman made to 911, at one point he calls the kid a "fucking coon".


----------



## saveliberty

PredFan said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 46 911 calls in 57 days from Zimmerman.  The guy has looking for a reason to shoot someone.  The sooner we lock up this cold blooded killer the better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, that shows that he was doing his job as the neighborhood watch guy. It is his job to call police. Had he simply called for the 58th time instead of persuing, then this would have gone differently.
> 
> I have seen stats that say that there had been numerous break-ins in that community recently. Sounds like Zimmerman was on the ball.
Click to expand...


Really?  In a gated community?  link.


----------



## ABikerSailor

saveliberty said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 46 911 calls in 57 days from Zimmerman.  The guy has looking for a reason to shoot someone.  The sooner we lock up this cold blooded killer the better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, that shows that he was doing his job as the neighborhood watch guy. It is his job to call police. Had he simply called for the 58th time instead of persuing, then this would have gone differently.
> 
> I have seen stats that say that there had been numerous break-ins in that community recently. Sounds like Zimmerman was on the ball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  In a gated community?  link.
Click to expand...


Actually, that's one of the excuses Zimmerman gave, I think.


----------



## saveliberty

Hope an FBI forenics team can piece together enough for a federal hate crime charge at least.


----------



## Intense

saveliberty said:


> Hope an FBI forenics team can piece together enough for a federal hate crime charge at least.



I prefer to see Justice done. What do we know to be fact in what led up to the struggle? We do have a sense, still, too much is still unknown.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say what the penalties are other than part B the part I posted? Suspending a kid for 10 days because they were tardy it would give a number of days for being suspended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section II. A. 2. c. of the School Tardy Policy.
> 
> "Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The section you cited is about the effect of tardiness on participation in competitions and performances.  What about students who aren't on any teams?  Are there no penalties if they are tardy?  Clearly there would be.   And that is covered by the statement I quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And this is the penalty
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
Click to expand...




That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.

That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.




P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?


----------



## Ariux

saveliberty said:


> Hope an FBI forenics team can piece together enough for a federal hate crime charge at least.



What a racist SOB you are, you're hoping that it turns out the white guy is guilty of murder, not self-defense, even though for now the evidence is against it.


----------



## PredFan

saveliberty said:


> Hope an FBI forenics team can piece together enough for a federal hate crime charge at least.



Yeah, you don't care at all about truth, you just want your anger sated.


----------



## PredFan

Intense said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope an FBI forenics team can piece together enough for a federal hate crime charge at least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer to see Justice done. What do we know to be fact in what led up to the struggle? We do have a sense, still, too much is still unknown.
Click to expand...


Correct.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Section II. A. 2. c. of the School Tardy Policy.
> 
> "Students will incur escalating administrative penalties for tardiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The section you cited is about the effect of tardiness on participation in competitions and performances.  What about students who aren't on any teams?  Are there no penalties if they are tardy?  Clearly there would be.   And that is covered by the statement I quoted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the penalty
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.
> 
> That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?
Click to expand...


There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. He was suspended for behavior issues.

But what you're saying is if a students plays sports he stay's in school if they don't he must stay home? Is that what you are trying to argue?


----------



## Salt Jones

PredFan said:


> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.



"But IF he started the fight"? On the new witness thread you were so outspokenly sure he started the fight. Now "if"?


----------



## Salt Jones

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the penalty
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.
> 
> That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. He was suspended for behavior issues.
> 
> But what you're saying is if a students plays sports he stay's in school if they don't he must stay home? Is that what you are trying to argue?
Click to expand...


Are you sure? Did you sit by the cement pond and tap into the school's records?


----------



## SFC Ollie

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the penalty
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.
> 
> That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. He was suspended for behavior issues.
> 
> But what you're saying is if a students plays sports he stay's in school if they don't he must stay home? Is that what you are trying to argue?
Click to expand...


He was suspended for being in an unauthorized area of the school. which of course brings up more questions.



> Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.
> 
> He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasnt a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property], Martin said, declining to offer more details.



Read more here: Trayvon Martin: a typical teen who loved video games, looked forward to prom - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## Emma

We now have 3 stories about why he was suspended. 

Teacher says 'tardies', father says he was somewhere he shouldn't have been, ??? says 'behavioral issues'. 

You realize of course that all three could be correct. He may have been somewhere on campus he didn't belong, which led him to being tardy, which is certainly a behavioral problem. However, none of these point to any evidence of criminal activity or violence.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

SFC Ollie said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.
> 
> That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. He was suspended for behavior issues.
> 
> But what you're saying is if a students plays sports he stay's in school if they don't he must stay home? Is that what you are trying to argue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was suspended for being in an unauthorized area of the school. which of course brings up more questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.
> 
> He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasnt a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property], Martin said, declining to offer more details.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read more here: Trayvon Martin: a typical teen who loved video games, looked forward to prom - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
Click to expand...


Which makes his suspension more than just being tardy


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> We now have 3 stories about why he was suspended.
> 
> Teacher says 'tardies', father says he was somewhere he shouldn't have been, ??? says 'behavioral issues'.
> 
> You realize of course that all three could be correct. He may have been somewhere on campus he didn't belong, which led him to being tardy, which is certainly a behavioral problem. However, none of these point to any evidence of criminal activity or violence.



There is no out of school suspension for being tardy.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Salt Jones said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.
> 
> That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. He was suspended for behavior issues.
> 
> But what you're saying is if a students plays sports he stay's in school if they don't he must stay home? Is that what you are trying to argue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure? Did you sit by the cement pond and tap into the school's records?
Click to expand...


Hey racist you can google and get his schools policy for suspensions.


----------



## Emma

SFC Ollie said:


> He was suspended for being in an unauthorized area of the school. which of course brings up more questions.



That doesn't tell us much, really. He may have been in the gym goofing off instead of in class, for example. In my day, it was kids hiding in the bathroom to smoke. (but then again, I'm old as dirt)


----------



## Intense

Salt Jones said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "But IF he started the fight"? On the new witness thread you were so outspokenly sure he started the fight. Now "if"?
Click to expand...


I do not believe it is stated who started the fight.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the penalty
> 
> B. A student who has twenty (20) or more cumulative tardies will not be allowed to
> participate in interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances for the remainder of
> the school year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.
> 
> That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. He was suspended for behavior issues.
> 
> But what you're saying is if a students plays sports he stay's in school if they don't he must stay home? Is that what you are trying to argue?
Click to expand...



No.  That's not it at all.

I was just hoping you would see the absurdity of your implication that the section you pointed to was the key section related to penalties for tardiness. 

That would have been a first step to an intelligible discussion.

But the discussion was only tangential anyway - the topic was not really relevant to the issue of Trayvon's shooting - and I've given up interest in it now.  

Tyvm.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> We now have 3 stories about why he was suspended.
> 
> Teacher says 'tardies', father says he was somewhere he shouldn't have been, ??? says 'behavioral issues'.
> 
> You realize of course that all three could be correct. He may have been somewhere on campus he didn't belong, which led him to being tardy, which is certainly a behavioral problem. However, none of these point to any evidence of criminal activity or violence.



behavioral issues would show that he had a problem.


----------



## Intense

Emma said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was suspended for being in an unauthorized area of the school. which of course brings up more questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't tell us much, really. He may have been in the gym goofing off instead of in class, for example. In my day, it was kids hiding in the bathroom to smoke. (but then again, I'm old as dirt)
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zWw0Ru28w]Brownsville Station-Smokin in the Boys room - YouTube[/ame]
Brownsville Station-Smokin in the Boys room


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the penalty in connection with participation in sports, competitions and performances.
> 
> That is not the only penalty for being tardy.  That would mean that those who aren't involved in sports, etc. would have no penalty for being tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s., "escalating" indicates increasing levels of penalty.  What are the additional levels?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. He was suspended for behavior issues.
> 
> But what you're saying is if a students plays sports he stay's in school if they don't he must stay home? Is that what you are trying to argue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No.  That's not it at all.
> 
> I was just hoping you would see the absurdity of your implication that the section you pointed to was the key section related to penalties for tardiness.
> 
> That would have been a first step to an intelligible discussion.
> 
> But the discussion was only tangential anyway - the topic was not really relevant to the issue of Trayvon's shooting - and I've given up interest in it now.
> 
> Tyvm.
Click to expand...

What is there to see? There is no out of school suspension for being tardy. NONE what so ever.


----------



## The Gadfly

ABikerSailor said:


> You know..........if George Zimmerman decides to go out in public, I really hope that nobody decides to kill or string him up.
> 
> However...........................................
> 
> If they wanna kick his ass and put him in the hospital on a daily basis?
> 
> I approve.



So it's OK to Lynch 'em,so long as we don't quite kill 'em, ABS? Really? Just who does this new "permission" apply to? Anyone we think MIGHT have committed a crime, but wasn't charged? Accused criminals found innocent by a jury? Who all is it open season on, this week? How about next week? How about next year? Should we do this with the Black man who was acquitted of killing a White 17 year old kid in NY? If you're accused of a crime, and the police decide you didn't do it, is it OK if we beat you up?


----------



## saveliberty

Ariux said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope an FBI forenics team can piece together enough for a federal hate crime charge at least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a racist SOB you are, you're hoping that it turns out the white guy is guilty of murder, not self-defense, even though for now the evidence is against it.
Click to expand...


What part of charged is giving you the most trouble idiot?


----------



## saveliberty

Question:  How many of you would kill someone over a broken nose?  Not saying I'd be happy about it, but really?


----------



## Ariux

saveliberty said:


> Question:  How many of you would kill someone over a broken nose?  Not saying I'd be happy about it, but really?



Broken nose and a bloody blow on the back of head.  If you listen to the 911 call of a witness, you can hear Zimmerman screaming like a little girl on fire (******* and wiggers claim it's the African hoodlum screaming).  They were obviously still in the middle of the fight, one that the obese Zimmerman was losing severely and the 6'3" African was continuing the assault even though he had already inflicted heavy damage.  So, the piece-of-shit African, Trayvon Martin, was served a bullet, when Zimmerman managed to pull the gun out of its holster.


----------



## saveliberty

Ariux said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question:  How many of you would kill someone over a broken nose?  Not saying I'd be happy about it, but really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Broken nose and a bloody blow on the back of head.  If you listen to the 911 call of a witness, you can hear Zimmerman screaming like a little girl on fire (******* and wiggers claim it's the African hoodlum screaming).  They were obviously still in the middle of the fight, one that the obese Zimmerman was losing severely and the 6'3" African was continuing the assault even though he had already inflicted heavy damage.  So, the piece-of-shit African, Trayvon Martin, was served a bullet, when Zimmerman managed to pull the gun out of its holster.
Click to expand...


If we want the opinion of a hateful jackass, we'll call.  I figure Zimmerman did it to himself to avoid jail.


----------



## SFC Ollie

saveliberty said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question:  How many of you would kill someone over a broken nose?  Not saying I'd be happy about it, but really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Broken nose and a bloody blow on the back of head.  If you listen to the 911 call of a witness, you can hear Zimmerman screaming like a little girl on fire (******* and wiggers claim it's the African hoodlum screaming).  They were obviously still in the middle of the fight, one that the obese Zimmerman was losing severely and the 6'3" African was continuing the assault even though he had already inflicted heavy damage.  So, the piece-of-shit African, Trayvon Martin, was served a bullet, when Zimmerman managed to pull the gun out of its holster.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we want the opinion of a hateful jackass, we'll call.  I figure Zimmerman did it to himself to avoid jail.
Click to expand...


He doesn't understand that there were no Africans present.


----------



## Ariux

saveliberty said:


> If we want the opinion of a hateful jackass, we'll call.  I figure Zimmerman did it to himself to avoid jail.



If only it were as easy as giving myself a bloody nose to keep trash out of the neighborhood.  

If hate were something I prized, you'd be my role model.


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> We now have 3 stories about why he was suspended.
> 
> Teacher says 'tardies', father says he was somewhere he shouldn't have been, ??? says 'behavioral issues'.
> 
> You realize of course that all three could be correct. He may have been somewhere on campus he didn't belong, which led him to being tardy, which is certainly a behavioral problem. However, none of these point to any evidence of criminal activity or violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> behavioral issues would show that he had a problem.
Click to expand...

It doesn't seem relevant at all.  I have to ask what 17 yo doesn't have emotional problems of some sort at some level.  It's normal for that age.  Emotionally immature in an almost mature body..........it's a given.


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> How very, very irresponsible our "press" is.
> 
> Being a journalist used to be an honorable metier.



Perhaps it "used to be", but in reality, it hasn't been, not in many years. The "journalists" I was unfortunate enough to run across in Vietnam, never met a falsehood they wouldn't gleefully tell, if they thought it would get them an award, or advance their career. The truth, unless it was sensational, was of absolutely no interest to them. Nothing I've seen from "the press" since surprises me, not in the least.  Comparison of their dubious "profession" and its "ethics" (such as they are) to the world's oldest, is both irresistible, and completely warranted. Some things never change.....


----------



## saveliberty

Ariux said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we want the opinion of a hateful jackass, we'll call.  I figure Zimmerman did it to himself to avoid jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only it were as easy as giving myself a bloody nose to keep trash out of the neighborhood.
> 
> If hate were something I prized, you'd be my role model.
Click to expand...


Cracker is going down for shooting the brother Ariux.


----------



## saveliberty

Where you go mofo whiteboy?


----------



## saveliberty

Dialing 911 bitch?


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.
Click to expand...

Zimmerman once hit a cop. But that doesn't matter to you, does it? He also had a restraining order from his ex, that also doesn't matter to you.


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> We now have 3 stories about why he was suspended.
> 
> Teacher says 'tardies', father says he was somewhere he shouldn't have been, ??? says 'behavioral issues'.
> 
> You realize of course that all three could be correct. He may have been somewhere on campus he didn't belong, which led him to being tardy, which is certainly a behavioral problem. However, none of these point to any evidence of criminal activity or violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> behavioral issues would show that he had a problem.
Click to expand...

If so, does that mean you believe he deserved to die?


----------



## SFC Ollie

What it all means is that not one person on this board has the relevant information to judge this one way or the other.........

We will just have to wait and see what comes out............


----------



## Ravi

I don't get how Martin landed on his back after being shot.

Anyone want to speculate?


----------



## SFC Ollie

About a thousand different ways. Especially since only Zimmerman saw it happen....


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> We now have 3 stories about why he was suspended.
> 
> Teacher says 'tardies', father says he was somewhere he shouldn't have been, ??? says 'behavioral issues'.
> 
> You realize of course that all three could be correct. He may have been somewhere on campus he didn't belong, which led him to being tardy, which is certainly a behavioral problem. However, none of these point to any evidence of criminal activity or violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> behavioral issues would show that he had a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't seem relevant at all.  I have to ask what 17 yo doesn't have emotional problems of some sort at some level.  It's normal for that age.  Emotionally immature in an almost mature body..........it's a given.
Click to expand...

I have to agree; I don't see much there that would matter. A few at that age are pretty mature; most are not; adolescent emotions in an adult body.The thing is, that once he knocked Zimmerman down, Trayvon Martin could have easily sprinted to safety; his father's residence was no more than 70 yards away; a distance he could have easily covered with the head start he would have had, while Zimmerman got to his feet. For whatever reason, Martin elected to continue to punch and/or kick Zimmerman, according to at least one witness; a mistake that turned out to have lethal consequences. He just acted like an angry adolescent who had managed to turn the tables; fear gave way to adolescent pride and rage; getting even became more important than getting away. He couldn't have known that he had now put an armed man on the defensive


----------



## Ravi

SFC Ollie said:


> About a thousand different ways. Especially since only Zimmerman saw it happen....



So did Martin.

Care to speculate? I see one or two scenarios....the blast from the gun knocked Martin backwards. Or it made him fall forward on top Zimmerman. So how did he end up face down with his hands under his body?


----------



## HomeInspect

This is a sad and unfortunate story. With that said, why is it national news?  Black on white crime is 10 times more frequent than white on black crime, yet you never hear a peep from the national media about that. Where was Al Sharpton when 3 black teenagers raped and murdered my neighbor's daughter?


----------



## paulitician

Or Hispanic Man...








Family describes George Zimmerman as &#8220;Hispanic.&#8221; Media caught lying again.

Every day in the US white people are murdered, raped, and beaten from black perpetrators. In almost all cases, there is little to no media coverage. So why is there so much coverage about a neighborhood watch captain shooting a 17-year-old teen. A search on google shows all the major cable news outlets, all the major websites, and hundreds of newspaper aggressively promoting the story from the point of view of the grieving family of the deceased. This is Agitation Propaganda (agitprop) 101.

There is definitely one detail the media is playing fast and loose with. The man fired the gun is universally described as &#8220;white.&#8221; The media wants him to be white. Having a white shooter fits their political agenda. Most media outlets are not showing his picture, even though a picture is available. All you hear and see is &#8220;George Zimmerman, white man!&#8221; What they aren&#8217;t telling you is the mother of Zimmerman is a Latino immigrant.

Robert Zimmerman, the father, told the Orlando Sentinal &#8220;George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family." 

Barack Obama also has one white parent. The media never calls him a &#8220;white man.&#8221;


Family describes George Zimmerman as &#8220;Hispanic.&#8221; Media caught lying again.


----------



## saveliberty

SFC Ollie said:


> What it all means is that not one person on this board has the relevant information to judge this one way or the other.........
> 
> We will just have to wait and see what comes out............



How about charges and public accountabilty?


----------



## The Gadfly

Ravi said:


> I don't get how Martin landed on his back after being shot.
> 
> Anyone want to speculate?



Ravi, I answered that in some detail in one of these threads; I forget which. The short answer is, he could have fallen either way, depending on which way he was leaning when the bullet hit, neuromuscular effect of the bullet impact (which is highly variable), and other factors. (I had understood Martin fell face down). A person hit by a bullet does not necessarily fall either in the direction of the shot, or away from it. The autopsy findings should enable an accurate reconstruction of the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin at the moment the shot was fired, in any event.


----------



## Liability

Ravi said:


> I don't get how Martin landed on his back after being shot.
> 
> Anyone want to speculate?



Yes.  You're actually a full blown retard.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> I don't get how Martin landed on his back after being shot.
> 
> Anyone want to speculate?


Martin wasn't on his back, though.

The cop report says the first responding cops found him face down.  When they discovered he was non-responsive, they turned him over and tried CPR and when the paramedics arrived, they said he was dead.


----------



## paulitician

HomeInspect said:


> This is a sad and unfortunate story. With that said, why is it national news?  Black on white crime is 10 times more frequent than white on black crime, yet you never hear a peep from the national media about that. Where was Al Sharpton when 3 black teenagers raped and murdered my neighbor's daughter?



Celebrating with his dumb White Liberal buddies and fellow Racist African American Democrats.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> We now have 3 stories about why he was suspended.
> 
> Teacher says 'tardies', father says he was somewhere he shouldn't have been, ??? says 'behavioral issues'.
> 
> You realize of course that all three could be correct. He may have been somewhere on campus he didn't belong, which led him to being tardy, which is certainly a behavioral problem. However, none of these point to any evidence of criminal activity or violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> behavioral issues would show that he had a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't seem relevant at all.  I have to ask what 17 yo doesn't have emotional problems of some sort at some level.  It's normal for that age.  Emotionally immature in an almost mature body..........it's a given.
Click to expand...

Were you as a teenager suspended from school because you had behavioral issues? I wasn't and I don't know anyone who was suspended unless they were trouble to begin with in the first place.


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> behavioral issues would show that he had a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem relevant at all.  I have to ask what 17 yo doesn't have emotional problems of some sort at some level.  It's normal for that age.  Emotionally immature in an almost mature body..........it's a given.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Were you as a teenager suspended from school because you had behavioral issues? I wasn't and I don't know anyone who was suspended unless they were trouble to begin with in the first place.
Click to expand...

When I was in school, school wasn't nearly as strict, so it's comparing apples and oranges.  We also didn't have metal detectors and no one had weapons.

Nowadays, it's easy to get a suspension.  I would have several on my record, and I was an A student.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem relevant at all.  I have to ask what 17 yo doesn't have emotional problems of some sort at some level.  It's normal for that age.  Emotionally immature in an almost mature body..........it's a given.
> 
> 
> 
> Were you as a teenager suspended from school because you had behavioral issues? I wasn't and I don't know anyone who was suspended unless they were trouble to begin with in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I was in school, school wasn't nearly as strict, so it's comparing apples and oranges.  We also didn't have metal detectors and no one had weapons.
> 
> Nowadays, it's easy to get a suspension.  I would have several on my record, and I was an A student.
Click to expand...



Even in this day and age any kid suspended that I know were trouble to begin with. Have you seen his pics of him dress as a hood?


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem relevant at all.  I have to ask what 17 yo doesn't have emotional problems of some sort at some level.  It's normal for that age.  Emotionally immature in an almost mature body..........it's a given.
> 
> 
> 
> Were you as a teenager suspended from school because you had behavioral issues? I wasn't and I don't know anyone who was suspended unless they were trouble to begin with in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I was in school, school wasn't nearly as strict, so it's comparing apples and oranges.  We also didn't have metal detectors and no one had weapons.
> 
> Nowadays, it's easy to get a suspension.  I would have several on my record, and I was an A student.
Click to expand...


Lots of Zero-tolerance policies out there today, Si; if we'd had some of those back in the day, they might have gotten me too.


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get how Martin landed on his back after being shot.
> 
> Anyone want to speculate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi, I answered that in some detail in one of these threads; I forget which. The short answer is, he could have fallen either way, depending on which way he was leaning when the bullet hit, neuromuscular effect of the bullet impact (which is highly variable), and other factors. (I had understood Martin fell face down). A person hit by a bullet does not necessarily fall either in the direction of the shot, or away from it. The autopsy findings should enable an accurate reconstruction of the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin at the moment the shot was fired, in any event.
Click to expand...

I can see him falling on his side, but not his front, if he was straddling Zimmerman when he was shot. Not to mention, if he was shot in the chest while straddling Zimmerman, why wasn't Zimmerman coverd with his blood?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

The Gadfly said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were you as a teenager suspended from school because you had behavioral issues? I wasn't and I don't know anyone who was suspended unless they were trouble to begin with in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> When I was in school, school wasn't nearly as strict, so it's comparing apples and oranges.  We also didn't have metal detectors and no one had weapons.
> 
> Nowadays, it's easy to get a suspension.  I would have several on my record, and I was an A student.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lots of Zero-tolerance policies out there today, Si; if we'd had some of those back in the day, they might have gotten me too.
Click to expand...


Maybe the school should be held accountable also, if he hadn't been suspended for bullshit he would have never been there in the first place. he would have been in Miami on that day. But I think his suspension was more than bullshit.,


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get how Martin landed on his back after being shot.
> 
> Anyone want to speculate?
> 
> 
> 
> Martin wasn't on his back, though.
> 
> The cop report says the first responding cops found him face down.  When they discovered he was non-responsive, they turned him over and tried CPR and when the paramedics arrived, they said he was dead.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I meant to say, why was he found face down.


----------



## Ariux

The Gadfly said:


> He just acted like an angry adolescent who had managed to turn the tables; fear gave way to adolescent pride and rage; getting even became more important than getting away. He couldn't have known that he had now put an armed man on the defensive



What fear?  Why would a 6'3" football player be afraid of a pudgy hispanic man?  Listen to Zimmerman's 911 call.  "He's coming toward me.... he's checking me out... he has a hand in his waistband..."  This was the African trying to intimidate Zimmerman.  If you're afraid of someone watching you, you keep moving, probably pretending that you didn't see the person you're afraid of.  If you're close to where you're going, you probably run.  If you're really afraid, you use that cell phone and call the police.     

The police told Zimmerman not to follow only because it's dangerous to follow a criminal (not because there's anything sinister about following a suspect), and the African demonstrated this danger.

The African, caught casing the neighborhood, acted more like a punk than anything else.  He attacked someone who was no threat to him, and he intended to do extreme bodily harm.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get how Martin landed on his back after being shot.
> 
> Anyone want to speculate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi, I answered that in some detail in one of these threads; I forget which. The short answer is, he could have fallen either way, depending on which way he was leaning when the bullet hit, neuromuscular effect of the bullet impact (which is highly variable), and other factors. (I had understood Martin fell face down). A person hit by a bullet does not necessarily fall either in the direction of the shot, or away from it. The autopsy findings should enable an accurate reconstruction of the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin at the moment the shot was fired, in any event.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can see him falling on his side, but not his front, if he was straddling Zimmerman when he was shot.
Click to expand...

I don't believe we know if he was straddling Zimmerman at the time the shot occurred.

Even someone who is standing straight up has a good chance of falling on their stomach when shot.  If he was shot from the front, there is often a reflex causing a bit of doubling over, then the fall would be on the front.  If he were shot from the back, that reflex is different, so flip a coin on what side he will fall.

The physics of a bullet compared with that of a 160 lb body doesn't cause folks to fly backwards with a bullet to their front.  That's for the movies, but simple mechanics won't allow for it.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Ravi said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> About a thousand different ways. Especially since only Zimmerman saw it happen....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So did Martin.
> 
> Care to speculate? I see one or two scenarios....the blast from the gun knocked Martin backwards. Or it made him fall forward on top Zimmerman. So how did he end up face down with his hands under his body?
Click to expand...


Purely speculation.

He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........


----------



## alan1

Thread title


ABikerSailor said:


> White man shoots innocent black teen....


Just thought I'd remind everybody of the race baiting title ABikerSailor used.


----------



## saveliberty

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> He just acted like an angry adolescent who had managed to turn the tables; fear gave way to adolescent pride and rage; getting even became more important than getting away. He couldn't have known that he had now put an armed man on the defensive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What fear?  Why would a 6'3" football player be afraid of a pudgy hispanic man?  Listen to Zimmerman's 911 call.  "He's coming toward me.... he's checking me out... he has a hand in his waistband..."  This was the African trying to intimidate Zimmerman.  If you're afraid of someone watching you, you keep moving, probably pretending that you didn't see the person you're afraid of.  If you're close to where you're going, you probably run.  If you're really afraid, you use that cell phone and call the police.
> 
> The police told Zimmerman not to follow only because it's dangerous to follow a criminal (not because there's anything sinister about following a suspect), and the African demonstrated this danger.
> 
> The African, caught casing the neighborhood, acted more like a punk than anything else.  He attacked someone who was no threat to him, and he intended to do extreme bodily harm.
Click to expand...


Homeboy was running an errand for his family you bitch.


----------



## Si modo

alan1 said:


> Thread title
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> White man shoots innocent black teen....
> 
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd remind everybody of the race baiting title ABikerSailor used.
Click to expand...

Well, to give him credit, the police report and the press both refer to Zimmerman as a white guy.

That doesn't mean he is, though.


----------



## saveliberty

SFC Ollie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> About a thousand different ways. Especially since only Zimmerman saw it happen....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So did Martin.
> 
> Care to speculate? I see one or two scenarios....the blast from the gun knocked Martin backwards. Or it made him fall forward on top Zimmerman. So how did he end up face down with his hands under his body?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Purely speculation.
> 
> He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........
Click to expand...


6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards


----------



## Ariux

saveliberty said:


> Homeboy was running an errand for his family you bitch.



The African should have stuck to that mission, instead of casing the neighborhood.


----------



## saveliberty

Ariux said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Homeboy was running an errand for his family you bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The African should have stuck to that mission, instead of casing the neighborhood.
Click to expand...


He was moving through the neighborhood on a path home.  Followed by a killer.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So did Martin.
> 
> Care to speculate? I see one or two scenarios....the blast from the gun knocked Martin backwards. Or it made him fall forward on top Zimmerman. So how did he end up face down with his hands under his body?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Purely speculation.
> 
> He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
Click to expand...

No, the physics do not.  

That happens in the movies.


----------



## California Girl

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Purely speculation.
> 
> He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the physics do not.
> 
> That happens in the movies.
Click to expand...


So.... are you saying that the movies aren't real life?


----------



## Si modo

California Girl said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
> 
> 
> 
> No, the physics do not.
> 
> That happens in the movies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So.... are you saying that the movies aren't real life?
Click to expand...

  (Newton's Third)


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Purely speculation.
> 
> He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the physics do not.
> 
> That happens in the movies.
Click to expand...


However, there is a myth, kept alive by portrayals of shooting victims on television and in films being hurled backwards, that victims are actually "knocked down" or displaced by being struck with the force of a bullet. In fact, real gunshot victims relate that they had no immediate reaction. (Fackler, 1998) The maximum momentum transferred from different small arms projectiles, inluding large caliber rifles and shotguns, to an 80 kg body is only 0.01 to 0.18 m/s, negligible compared to the 1 to 2 m/s velocity of a pedestrian. (Karger and Knewbuehl, 1996)

FIREARMS TUTORIAL


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
> 
> 
> 
> No, the physics do not.
> 
> That happens in the movies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> However, there is a myth, kept alive by portrayals of shooting victims on television and in films being hurled backwards, that victims are actually "knocked down" or displaced by being struck with the force of a bullet. In fact, real gunshot victims relate that they had no immediate reaction. (Fackler, 1998) The maximum momentum transferred from different small arms projectiles, inluding large caliber rifles and shotguns, to an 80 kg body is only 0.01 to 0.18 m/s, negligible compared to the 1 to 2 m/s velocity of a pedestrian. (Karger and Knewbuehl, 1996)
> 
> FIREARMS TUTORIAL
Click to expand...

Negligible.  Right.


----------



## saveliberty

Note the example suggests the person is moving toward the shooter.  If moving away, the momentum should continue backwards.


----------



## SFC Ollie

saveliberty said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So did Martin.
> 
> Care to speculate? I see one or two scenarios....the blast from the gun knocked Martin backwards. Or it made him fall forward on top Zimmerman. So how did he end up face down with his hands under his body?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Purely speculation.
> 
> He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
Click to expand...


And you've seen how many take a bullet? You simply never know.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
> 
> 
> 
> No, the physics do not.
> 
> That happens in the movies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> However, there is a myth, kept alive by portrayals of shooting victims on television and in films being hurled backwards, that victims are actually "knocked down" or displaced by being struck with the force of a bullet. In fact, real gunshot victims relate that they had no immediate reaction. (Fackler, 1998) The maximum momentum transferred from different small arms projectiles, inluding large caliber rifles and shotguns, to an 80 kg body is only 0.01 to 0.18 m/s, negligible compared to the 1 to 2 m/s velocity of a pedestrian. (Karger and Knewbuehl, 1996)
> 
> FIREARMS TUTORIAL
Click to expand...


Actually it depends on the caliber of the firearm and knock down power. If a person of average size get's hit with a 45 acp hollow point 230 grain round they will fall backwards.


----------



## saveliberty

SFC Ollie said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Purely speculation.
> 
> He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you've seen how many take a bullet? You simply never know.
Click to expand...


Yes, I noticed my quoted site was showing the bullets tubbling in flight (yaw), corkscrewing and a few other motions you don't normally consider in a trajectory.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Note the example suggests the person is moving toward the shooter.  If moving away, the momentum should continue backwards.


For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

But, if you would like Wikipedia:  "Hollywood depictions of firearm victims being thrown through plate-glass windows are inaccurate. Were this to be the case, the shooter would also be thrown backwards with equal force. Gunshot victims frequently fall or collapse when shot; this is less a result of the momentum of the bullet pushing them over, but is primarily caused by physical damage or psychological effects, perhaps combined with being off-balance. This is not the case if the victim is hit by heavier projectiles such as 20 mm cannon shell, where the momentum effects can be enormous; this is why very few such weapons can be fired without being mounted on a weapons platform or involve a recoilless system (e.g. a recoilless rifle)."


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note the example suggests the person is moving toward the shooter.  If moving away, the momentum should continue backwards.
> 
> 
> 
> For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
> 
> But, if you would like Wikipedia:  "Hollywood depictions of firearm victims being thrown through plate-glass windows are inaccurate. Were this to be the case, the shooter would also be thrown backwards with equal force. Gunshot victims frequently fall or collapse when shot; this is less a result of the momentum of the bullet pushing them over, but is primarily caused by physical damage or psychological effects, perhaps combined with being off-balance. This is not the case if the victim is hit by heavier projectiles such as 20 mm cannon shell, where the momentum effects can be enormous; this is why very few such weapons can be fired without being mounted on a weapons platform or involve a recoilless system (e.g. a recoilless rifle)."
Click to expand...


No, if moving away, your motion should continue in that direction.  Also, the shooter has some type of recoil Si.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

SFC Ollie said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Purely speculation.
> 
> He was hit, grabbed his chest and fell forward........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6'3" 140 pound kid gets shot in the cheat.  Physics says the lever should propel him backwards
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you've seen how many take a bullet? You simply never know.
Click to expand...


Wasn't it truth matter who once claimed that a 357 mag hollow point would penetrated a engine block?


----------



## Trajan

did he die on the spot?
If he did he died from the usual gunshot related cause, hydrostatic shock to the heart. Kinetic energy does what it does. 

that crap  in the movies is exactly that, when someone is shot in the  midsection/chest  even with a military grade munition, they either drop down in almost a straight line, and depending on  how their knees buckle  they fall off to the oblique _or_ they crumple forward almost landing on their shoulder in a half crouch,   _unless_ they were already moving  backwards...


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Trajan said:


> did he die on the spot?
> If he did he died from the usual gunshot related cause, hydrostatic shock to the heart. Kinetic energy does what it does.
> 
> that crap  in the movies is exactly that, when someone is shot in the  midsection/chest  even with a military grade munition, they either drop down in almost a straight line, and depending on  how their knees buckle  they fall off to the oblique _or_ they crumple forward almost landing on their shoulder in a half crouch,   _unless_ they were already moving  backwards...



Military grade ammo would be full metal jacket they tend to penetrate more with less knock down.
It's those hollow point rounds that have more knock down power.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note the example suggests the person is moving toward the shooter.  If moving away, the momentum should continue backwards.
> 
> 
> 
> For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
> 
> But, if you would like Wikipedia:  "Hollywood depictions of firearm victims being thrown through plate-glass windows are inaccurate. Were this to be the case, the shooter would also be thrown backwards with equal force. Gunshot victims frequently fall or collapse when shot; this is less a result of the momentum of the bullet pushing them over, but is primarily caused by physical damage or psychological effects, perhaps combined with being off-balance. This is not the case if the victim is hit by heavier projectiles such as 20 mm cannon shell, where the momentum effects can be enormous; this is why very few such weapons can be fired without being mounted on a weapons platform or involve a recoilless system (e.g. a recoilless rifle)."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, if moving away, your motion should continue in that direction.  Also, the shooter has some type of recoil Si.
Click to expand...

Yes, the shooter DOES have recoil, and it doesn't knock them backwards.  Also, the force of the bullet giving rise to the recoil experienced by the shooter is on a surface - the gun metal - that does little to absorb its exit energy - little deformation.

The entrance energy into a body is in a medium that dissipates the energy and absorbs it - lots of deformation.  Like foam would.

Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
> 
> But, if you would like Wikipedia:  "Hollywood depictions of firearm victims being thrown through plate-glass windows are inaccurate. Were this to be the case, the shooter would also be thrown backwards with equal force. Gunshot victims frequently fall or collapse when shot; this is less a result of the momentum of the bullet pushing them over, but is primarily caused by physical damage or psychological effects, perhaps combined with being off-balance. This is not the case if the victim is hit by heavier projectiles such as 20 mm cannon shell, where the momentum effects can be enormous; this is why very few such weapons can be fired without being mounted on a weapons platform or involve a recoilless system (e.g. a recoilless rifle)."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, if moving away, your motion should continue in that direction.  Also, the shooter has some type of recoil Si.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, the shooter DOES have recoil, and it doesn't knock them backwards.  Also, the force of the bullet giving rise to the recoil experienced by the shooter is on a surface - the gun metal - that does little to absorb its exit energy - little deformation.
> 
> The entrance energy into a body is in a medium that dissipates the energy and absorbs it - lots of deformation.  Like foam would.
> 
> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.
Click to expand...


That's what I just said.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.



I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
Click to expand...

Like you, I don't know about the claim that Martin was seen on the top of Zimmerman beating him.  I haven't seen that source.

I don't know if Zimmerman shot Martin when Martin was on top of him, if he was on top of him.

But, I do know it's easy for a body to fall forward when shot, especially when the shot instantly kills, if that was the nature of the shot.

So much we don't know.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like you, I don't know about the claim that Martin was seen on the top of Zimmerman beating him.  I haven't seen that source.
> 
> I don't know if Zimmerman shot Martin when Martin was on top of him, if he was on top of him.
> 
> But, I do know it's easy for a body to fall forward when shot, especially when the shot instantly kills, if that was the nature of the shot.
> 
> So much we don't know.
Click to expand...


True. The implication by some out here is that he was shot because he was on top, attacking Zimmerman. I can't see how he'd end up in that position no matter what way he fell. The only way I can envision it happening is if Martin stood up after being shot. 

If he _wasn't_ on top attacking Zimmerman, then why the need to shoot him? 

This is giving me a headache.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like you, I don't know about the claim that Martin was seen on the top of Zimmerman beating him.  I haven't seen that source.
Click to expand...


Glad tohelp:
Trayvon Martin case: Anonymous witness claims teen attacked killer George Zimmerman before fatal shooting | Mail Online



> The witness, known only as John, told Sanford police that he saw Martin on top of George Zimmerman shortly before the fatal shot that has led to a national outcry, including a huge 'hoodie' march in Philadelphia last night. He recounted the details to Fox 35 News in Florida.



  Witness: Trayvon Martin Attacked Zimmerman by Macsmind &#8211; Politics, Culture and Breaking News and the 2012 Presidential Election!



> The witness told FOX 35 in Orlando that he saw evidence of a fight between Martin and Zimmerman, which could lend credence to the gunmans claim that he was acting in self-defence.
> 
> *The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: Help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911*, he said.
> Zimmerman was wearing a red sweater; Martin was in a grey hoodie.
> 
> He added: When I got upstairs and looked down, *the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass*, and I believe he was dead at that point.
> ...
> *The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: help, helpand I told him to stop and I was calling 911*, he said.
> 
> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.
> 
> The witness only wanted to be identified as John, and didnt not want to be shown on camera.
> 
> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmermans claims, saying *those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman*.
> 
> When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point, John said.
> 
> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.
> 
> Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, *indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.* 



Self defense.

Period.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
> 
> 
> 
> Like you, I don't know about the claim that Martin was seen on the top of Zimmerman beating him.  I haven't seen that source.
> 
> I don't know if Zimmerman shot Martin when Martin was on top of him, if he was on top of him.
> 
> But, I do know it's easy for a body to fall forward when shot, especially when the shot instantly kills, if that was the nature of the shot.
> 
> So much we don't know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True. The implication by some out here is that he was shot because he was on top, attacking Zimmerman. I can't see how he'd end up in that position no matter what way he fell. The only way I can envision it happening is if Martin stood up after being shot.
> 
> If he _wasn't_ on top attacking Zimmerman, then why the need to shoot him?
> 
> This is giving me a headache.
Click to expand...


Heh, and here I was thinking you were numb from the shoulders up.

Wish  I could honestly say I am happy to be proven wrong in that matter.



As to why there was no blood; bullet wouonds dont necesarily cause gushing wounds. Martin had two garments on covering his wound, so it would have taken a little time for it to soak through or run  out. Plenty of time for Zimmerman to crawl back up to his feet as Martin crumpled to the ground.

A real tragedy; one life ended and another ruined, as well as his family. Zimmerman will forever be regarded by the public as a vigilante murderer.

But from Zimmermans pov; anything beats being dead.


----------



## LukeRussell

Jesus H, might as well join peta or some other organization bound to fail, Romney has the nominee in his pocket along with your vote in November, just give up.


----------



## Si modo

LukeRussell said:


> Jesus H, might as well join peta or some other organization bound to fail, Romney has the nominee in his pocket along with your vote in November, just give up.


----------



## saveliberty

Crime in the area you say?  So a Mexican guy is following you for blocks.  Who looks suspicous?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> Crime in the area you say?  So a Mexican guy is following you for blocks.  Who looks suspicous?



Crime in the area was high.

Dreamworld 32773 Sanford, FL Neighborhood Profile

And before anyone ask yes this is near the area where Zimmerman LIVED
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&s...esult&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQ8gEwAA


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> And before anyone ask yes this is near the area where Zimmerman LIVED
> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&s...esult&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQ8gEwAA




He lived in Concord NC ???

Boy he really DID follow Trayvon a long way.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> 159 edgewater circle - Google Maps
> 
> He lived in Concord NC ???
> 
> Boy he really DID follow Trayvon a long way.



You got me? I don't know how that address came up
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&s...esult&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQ8gEwAA


----------



## Emma

Came up again LOL


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> Came up again LOL



It shouldn't have.


----------



## Emma

If you were searching for yourself or someone you know, you probably ought to delete that link. 

I posted a link to a map the apartment complex and streets mentioned in the police report. There hasn't been any question that Zimmerman lived there; I don't think it's necessary to post an exact address.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> And before anyone ask yes this is near the area where Zimmerman LIVED
> 159 Edgewater Circle, Sanford, FL - Google Maps



He didn't live there, either.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> If you were searching for yourself or someone you know, you probably ought to delete that link.
> 
> I posted a link to a map the apartment complex and streets mentioned in the police report. There hasn't been any question that Zimmerman lived there; I don't think it's necessary to post an exact address.



Thats not my address or anyone I know of.


----------



## Emma

well I took it out of my post, in any case


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And before anyone ask yes this is near the area where Zimmerman LIVED
> 159 Edgewater Circle, Sanford, FL - Google Maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't live there, either.
Click to expand...


But that is the gated community where the shooting took place isn't it?


----------



## saveliberty

Okay, so a Mexican guy follow you for blocks, confronts you and tries to detain you.  You break free and the guy comes at you again.  At this point you swing and knock the guy down. Then he pulls a gun and shoots you.


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And before anyone ask yes this is near the area where Zimmerman LIVED
> 159 Edgewater Circle, Sanford, FL - Google Maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't live there, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is the gated community where the shooting took place isn't it?
Click to expand...

No. It's a few miles away.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And before anyone ask yes this is near the area where Zimmerman LIVED
> 159 Edgewater Circle, Sanford, FL - Google Maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't live there, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is the gated community where the shooting took place isn't it?
Click to expand...

No. 

The addresses given in the police report are ...

1111 Retreat View Circle (where Zimmerman made the call, next to clubhouse)

The shooting took place in the grassy courtyard between the row of buildings, specifically behind 2831 Retreat View Circle and 1231 Twin Trees Lane. 

I did have the name of the complex; it escapes me now. Not hard to find on the google.


----------



## Emma

Retreat at Twin Lakes. 

That's the name of the complex.


----------



## Emma

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And before anyone ask yes this is near the area where Zimmerman LIVED
> 159 Edgewater Circle, Sanford, FL - Google Maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't live there, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is the gated community where the shooting took place isn't it?
Click to expand...

It's a different neighborhood.  IIRC, though, there was a news report a few days ago that said that Zimmerman moved into his parents' home once this hit the press.

I don't know if that's his parents' home, though.

I also recall that same news report said that his parents had to move, too, because of all the press.

I don't recall the report.  I'll look to see if I can find it again.


----------



## Si modo

"Oliver said the headlines have taken a toll on Zimmerman, his wife, and his family.

"He's moved, they've disconnected their phone numbers, they're in hiding, they're fearful," Oliver said. "

George Zimmerman's Attorney and Friend Speak About Trayvon Martin Incident - ABC News





"The Sanford Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, did not instigate the encounter but has received death threats and moved out of his home, his father told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "

George Zimmerman's father: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin -- Society's Child -- Sott.net


----------



## Emma

> George Zimmerman, 28, moved into the Retreat in the summer of 2009  with his wife, Shellie. Records show he worked at a pressure-washing  company, though neighbors said they never saw a truck.
> 
> 
> Right away,  he started calling the police. The 911 operators translated his  complaints into the bloodless shorthand of law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> Aug. 26, 2009: "Male driving with no headlights on."
> Sept. 22, 2009: "Yellow speed bike doing wheelies."
> Oct. 23, 2009: "Aggressive white and brown pit bull."
> 
> 
> The  transcripts of Zimmerman's 911 calls during the more than two years he  lived on Retreat View Circle fill 28 pages. His concerns include  everything from the driver of a pickup cutting off people to a neighbor  leaving his garage door open.
> 
> ----
> 
> In September, the Sanford police helped the Retreat start a neighborhood watch program.
> 
> 
> "Some  residents called me wanting to do a startup," said Dorival, a civilian  police employee. About 30 people came to the clubhouse for that first  session, she said. "Everyone was enthusiastic." Zimmerman volunteered to  be captain.
> 
> 
> "I told them, this is not about being a vigilante  police force," Dorival said. "You're not even supposed to patrol on  neighborhood watch. And you're certainly not supposed to carry a gun."



Trayvon Martin's killing shatters safety within Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford - Tampa Bay Times


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Correction this is the area where the shooting took place.

Lake Monroe / Saint Josephs 32771 Sanford, FL Neighborhood Profile


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't live there, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that is the gated community where the shooting took place isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a different neighborhood.  IIRC, though, there was a news report a few days ago that said that Zimmerman moved into his parents' home once this hit the press.
> 
> I don't know if that's his parents' home, though.
> 
> I also recall that same news report said that his parents had to move, too, because of all the press.
> 
> I don't recall the report.  I'll look to see if I can find it again.
Click to expand...

I know I corrected it.


----------



## Emma

Well, that's the correct zip code but it's impossible to tell from your link if that's the complex specifically. 

Zimmerman's 911 calls logged over 2 years took up _28 pages._ He called 911 46 times in just the last year. 

Maybe HE is the reason why statistics show an increase in reported crimes in the area.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> George Zimmerman, 28, moved into the Retreat in the summer of 2009  with his wife, Shellie. Records show he worked at a pressure-washing  company, though neighbors said they never saw a truck.
> 
> 
> Right away,  he started calling the police. The 911 operators translated his  complaints into the bloodless shorthand of law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> Aug. 26, 2009: "Male driving with no headlights on."
> Sept. 22, 2009: "Yellow speed bike doing wheelies."
> Oct. 23, 2009: "Aggressive white and brown pit bull."
> 
> 
> The  transcripts of Zimmerman's 911 calls during the more than two years he  lived on Retreat View Circle fill 28 pages. His concerns include  everything from the driver of a pickup cutting off people to a neighbor  leaving his garage door open.
> 
> ----
> 
> In September, the Sanford police helped the Retreat start a neighborhood watch program.
> 
> 
> "Some  residents called me wanting to do a startup," said Dorival, a civilian  police employee. About 30 people came to the clubhouse for that first  session, she said. "Everyone was enthusiastic." Zimmerman volunteered to  be captain.
> 
> 
> "I told them, this is not about being a vigilante  police force," Dorival said. "You're not even supposed to patrol on  neighborhood watch. And you're certainly not supposed to carry a gun."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin's killing shatters safety within Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford - Tampa Bay Times
Click to expand...

Thanks for finding that.

I was starting to think, "WTF?  This guy was doing neighborhood watch in a neighborhood where he didn't live?"

But, he did live there.

I hope this case causes that Florida law to change AND now I'm hoping that there is a law to prevent endangering another when they are practicing their right to due process.


----------



## Emma

Some of those calls don't rise to the level of requiring the use of 911. I wonder if Sanford police ever warned him about abusing the system?


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Some of those calls don't rise to the level of requiring the use of 911. I wonder if Sanford police ever warned him about abusing the system?


I wonder, too.

I also know that folks doing neighborhood watch make a lot more calls to 911 about suspicious persons than your average Jane and Joe, do.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of those calls don't rise to the level of requiring the use of 911. I wonder if Sanford police ever warned him about abusing the system?
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder, too.
> 
> I also know that folks doing neighborhood watch make a lot more calls to 911 about suspicious persons than your average Jane and Joe, do.
Click to expand...


Perhaps, but bikes doing wheelies? No headlights? This isn't the sort of stuff 911 is for. 

There have been some audio recordings released as well, and IIRC it was the same kind of thing. 

It seems the press has got their hands on those records. I'd like to see a list of complaints, all 28 pages worth.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of those calls don't rise to the level of requiring the use of 911. I wonder if Sanford police ever warned him about abusing the system?
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder, too.
> 
> I also know that folks doing neighborhood watch make a lot more calls to 911 about suspicious persons than your average Jane and Joe, do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but bikes doing wheelies? No headlights? This isn't the sort of stuff 911 is for.
> 
> There have been some audio recordings released as well, and IIRC it was the same kind of thing.
> 
> It seems the press has got their hands on those records. I'd like to see a list of complaints, all 28 pages worth.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's pretty over the top.

Once, when living in a townhouse community, we had an idiot (known simply as "The Bitch") call the cops because some kids were climbing a tree that she liked.  And, she didn't call because she was worried about the kids hurting themselves, she was worried about the tree.  It was a very solid tree.

The horror, huh?


----------



## Emma

I have to wonder if, with so many calls to 911 for inane incidents, the police were slower to respond to the initial call by Zimmerman ... and it was the subsequent calls by the other residents that got them moving. Ya know, George always crying wolf. I have to believe that with such a record of calls, the dispatchers and local officers knew him well and their initial reaction was, "oh shit, not HIM again". His call came in at 7pm; the officer arrived at the clubhouse area at 7:17, and on scene of the shooting at 7:19, reported to be within a minute of the shooting.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder, too.
> 
> I also know that folks doing neighborhood watch make a lot more calls to 911 about suspicious persons than your average Jane and Joe, do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but bikes doing wheelies? No headlights? This isn't the sort of stuff 911 is for.
> 
> There have been some audio recordings released as well, and IIRC it was the same kind of thing.
> 
> It seems the press has got their hands on those records. I'd like to see a list of complaints, all 28 pages worth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, that's pretty over the top.
> 
> Once, when living in a townhouse community, we had an idiot (known simply as "The Bitch") call the cops because some kids were climbing a tree that she liked.  And, she didn't call because she was worried about the kids hurting themselves, she was worried about the tree.  It was a very solid tree.
> 
> The horror, huh?
Click to expand...


yeah, I think there may be one in every neighborhood lol

George seemed to be ... overzealous, at the very least. I'm betting the dispatchers and police considered him a pain in the ass. Or maybe they just have the patience of a saint.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> George Zimmerman, 28, moved into the Retreat in the summer of 2009  with his wife, Shellie. Records show he worked at a pressure-washing  company, though neighbors said they never saw a truck.
> 
> 
> Right away,  he started calling the police. The 911 operators translated his  complaints into the bloodless shorthand of law enforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> Aug. 26, 2009: "Male driving with no headlights on."
> Sept. 22, 2009: "Yellow speed bike doing wheelies."
> Oct. 23, 2009: "Aggressive white and brown pit bull."
> 
> 
> The  transcripts of Zimmerman's 911 calls during the more than two years he  lived on Retreat View Circle fill 28 pages. His concerns include  everything from the driver of a pickup cutting off people to a neighbor  leaving his garage door open.
> 
> ----
> 
> In September, the Sanford police helped the Retreat start a neighborhood watch program.
> 
> 
> "Some  residents called me wanting to do a startup," said Dorival, a civilian  police employee. About 30 people came to the clubhouse for that first  session, she said. "Everyone was enthusiastic." Zimmerman volunteered to  be captain.
> 
> 
> "I told them, this is not about being a vigilante  police force," Dorival said. "You're not even supposed to patrol on  neighborhood watch. And you're certainly not supposed to carry a gun."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin's killing shatters safety within Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford - Tampa Bay Times
Click to expand...



MAYBE YOU SHOULD RE-READ WHAT YOU POST.


> "I told them, this is not about being a vigilante police force," Dorival said. "You're not even supposed to patrol on neighborhood watch. And you're certainly not supposed to carry a gun."


It's either total bullshit or the person does not know what in the hell they are talking about.
You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while out walking the neighborhood. It's not much of a community watch if  people stay in their homes.


----------



## Emma

More, from the above link. 





> The next day, on the other side of the complex, Thomas Ransburg, 20,  was outside talking to his girlfriend. Ransburg has lived behind the  gate since January, he said, and sees no reason to move now.
> 
> 
> A few  months ago, he was hanging out with a friend who lives in another  townhouse. "But that day, he forgot his key," said Ransburg. So they  walked around to the back patio and opened the sliding glass door.  Someone saw them and called the police. They spent four hours at the  station, trying to convince investigators his friend really lived there.  "They thought we were trying to rob it or something," he said.
> 
> 
> Ransburg,  who is black and wears long dreadlocks, laughed at the memory, swore it  didn't make him angry, and said he understood. "I don't think it was  racial," he said. "I guess we just looked suspicious. Everyone's always  been real friendly back here. People smile and wave. All the little kids  run around. There's always laughter."
> 
> 
> Just then, three teenage males walked through the unlocked side gate,  down the walkway toward Ransburg. T.J. Jones and his twin brother,  T.Y., 14, and their cousin James Young, 13, have lived in the complex  for two years. Their moms moved here from apartments to give the boys  more room and a safe place to play.
> 
> 
> The boys, who are black, used to play football with Trayvon Martin "right there on that grass where he died," said T.Y.
> 
> 
> He  told Ransburg that their mom won't let them outside after dark anymore.  She is worried someone might think they are "suspicious or something,"  said T.J. "She keeps telling us to be careful."
> 
> 
> *Ransburg nodded,  and pointed at the townhouse across the street. "You see that door?  That's my door," he told the boys. "If anyone is ever bothering you or  following you, if you ever feel scared, that's my door. Knock on it.  I'll be there to get your back."*



That's what a neighborhood should be.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while out walking the neighborhood. It's not much of a community watch if  people stay in their homes.


What she said echoes the national group.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> More, from the above link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The next day, on the other side of the complex, Thomas Ransburg, 20,  was outside talking to his girlfriend. Ransburg has lived behind the  gate since January, he said, and sees no reason to move now.
> 
> 
> A few  months ago, he was hanging out with a friend who lives in another  townhouse. "But that day, he forgot his key," said Ransburg. So they  walked around to the back patio and opened the sliding glass door.  Someone saw them and called the police. They spent four hours at the  station, trying to convince investigators his friend really lived there.  "They thought we were trying to rob it or something," he said.
> 
> 
> Ransburg,  who is black and wears long dreadlocks, laughed at the memory, swore it  didn't make him angry, and said he understood. "I don't think it was  racial," he said. "I guess we just looked suspicious. Everyone's always  been real friendly back here. People smile and wave. All the little kids  run around. There's always laughter."
> 
> 
> Just then, three teenage males walked through the unlocked side gate,  down the walkway toward Ransburg. T.J. Jones and his twin brother,  T.Y., 14, and their cousin James Young, 13, have lived in the complex  for two years. Their moms moved here from apartments to give the boys  more room and a safe place to play.
> 
> 
> The boys, who are black, used to play football with Trayvon Martin "right there on that grass where he died," said T.Y.
> 
> 
> He  told Ransburg that their mom won't let them outside after dark anymore.  She is worried someone might think they are "suspicious or something,"  said T.J. "She keeps telling us to be careful."
> 
> 
> *Ransburg nodded,  and pointed at the townhouse across the street. "You see that door?  That's my door," he told the boys. "If anyone is ever bothering you or  following you, if you ever feel scared, that's my door. Knock on it.  I'll be there to get your back."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what a neighborhood should be.
Click to expand...



I tell ya, if I had a teenage boy (regardless of his race) and lived in Florida right now, we would have some very, very long talks about what he could and couldn't do out in public.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while out walking the neighborhood. It's not much of a community watch if  people stay in their homes.
> 
> 
> 
> What she said echoes the national group.
Click to expand...


I don't give a damn what it echos. You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while walking your neighborhood? That makes absolutely no sense at all.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while out walking the neighborhood. It's not much of a community watch if  people stay in their homes.
> 
> 
> 
> What she said echoes the national group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn what it echos. You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while walking your neighborhood? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Click to expand...


Its simple bigreb, you want to be on neighborhood watch?  Don't carry the gun.  You want to carry your gun?  Don't be on nieghborhood watch.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> What she said echoes the national group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn what it echos. You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while walking your neighborhood? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its simple bigreb, you want to be on neighborhood watch?  Don't carry the gun.  You want to carry your gun?  Don't be on nieghborhood watch.
Click to expand...


Oh so you're at take your evening walk but you can't doing with a gun? Permit gives him the right according to Fl. state law to conceal carry his firearm in public.


----------



## GUNSIDEAUG

REALITY ! 

 New Witness Claims Trayvon Martin Attacked Zimmerman


Apparently, now theres a new witness who claims that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman:

The witness told FOX 35 in Orlando that he saw evidence of a fight between Martin and Zimmerman, which could lend credence to the gunmans claim that he was acting in self-defence.

The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: Help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911, he said.

Zimmerman was wearing a red sweater; Martin was in a grey hoodie.

He added: When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.

This account is drastically different from the portrait painted of Martin by his friends and acquaintance


----------



## Foxfyre

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem relevant at all.  I have to ask what 17 yo doesn't have emotional problems of some sort at some level.  It's normal for that age.  Emotionally immature in an almost mature body..........it's a given.
> 
> 
> 
> Were you as a teenager suspended from school because you had behavioral issues? I wasn't and I don't know anyone who was suspended unless they were trouble to begin with in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I was in school, school wasn't nearly as strict, so it's comparing apples and oranges.  We also didn't have metal detectors and no one had weapons.
> 
> Nowadays, it's easy to get a suspension.  I would have several on my record, and I was an A student.
Click to expand...


Yes, schools are much more strict re weapons, etc.; also in denying students the ability to express their religious faith.  Much less so in expecting and requiring simple courtesies that tend to make society more pleasant and encourage civility.

In my day, student expressed religion was not restricted, the civility was mandatory, and a lot of the kids carried weapons to school--almost every boy had a jackknife in his pocket and more than a few a shotgun in the gun rack if they were one of the few who drove a vehicle to school.  But in all those years, first grade through my senior year, in two different highschools, there was never an incident of a knifing or shooting in our school or anywhere else that we were aware of.  Schools were safe places and nobody even thought about some nut coming in and randomly shooting people.

Whatever is creating a more violent society now--I have my theories but those are best expressed on another thread--it is different times now.

And evenso, the inappropriate, even deadly actions of one rogue or deranged individual does not reflect anybody's values but that individuals.

The reaction to him often does reflect the new realities of our times now.


----------



## Si modo

GUNSIDEAUG said:


> REALITY !
> 
> New Witness Claims Trayvon Martin Attacked Zimmerman
> 
> 
> Apparently, now theres a new witness who claims that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman:
> 
> The witness told FOX 35 in Orlando that he saw evidence of a fight between Martin and Zimmerman, which could lend credence to the gunmans claim that he was acting in self-defence.
> 
> The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: Help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911, he said.
> 
> Zimmerman was wearing a red sweater; Martin was in a grey hoodie.
> 
> He added: When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.
> 
> This account is drastically different from the portrait painted of Martin by his friends and acquaintance


Thing is, he is not a new witness.  The local affiliate reported about him the next day - 2/27/2012.

Funny how the national press missed that, huh?


----------



## Ravi

This actually is new....don't know if it is true or not as it isn't sourced that I can see.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> This actually is new....don't know if it is true or not as it isn't sourced that I can see.
> 
> Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel


Yeah.  I'm wondering where that reporter got that.  The reporter doesn't say he interviewed Zimmerman and that info is not in the cop report, either.  I mean, what's in the cop report sort of corroborates that, but the reporter doesn't source that info at all.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This actually is new....don't know if it is true or not as it isn't sourced that I can see.
> 
> Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  I'm wondering where that reporter got that.  The reporter doesn't say he interviewed Zimmerman and that info is not in the cop report, either.  I mean, what's in the cop report sort of corroborates that, but the reporter doesn't source that info at all.
Click to expand...


That would explain why Zimmerman was not arrested.


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This actually is new....don't know if it is true or not as it isn't sourced that I can see.
> 
> Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  I'm wondering where that reporter got that.  The reporter doesn't say he interviewed Zimmerman and that info is not in the cop report, either.  I mean, what's in the cop report sort of corroborates that, but the reporter doesn't source that info at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would explain why Zimmerman was not arrested.
Click to expand...

If that were his statement to the cops that night, and taking into consideration other witnesses and his wounds, and the law, yes, it would explain it.

Still, there is a lot we don't know.

It will be interesting if the newly assigned states attorney reaches the same conclusion.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  I'm wondering where that reporter got that.  The reporter doesn't say he interviewed Zimmerman and that info is not in the cop report, either.  I mean, what's in the cop report sort of corroborates that, but the reporter doesn't source that info at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would explain why Zimmerman was not arrested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that were his statement to the cops that night, and taking into consideration other witnesses and his wounds, and the law, yes, it would explain it.
> 
> Still, there is a lot we don't know.
> 
> It will be interesting if the newly assigned states attorney reaches the same conclusion.
Click to expand...


It would also be interesting to know that if all this is true, why didn't the police say so to begin with? Especially before the police chief stepped down. Just not making sense.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  I'm wondering where that reporter got that.  The reporter doesn't say he interviewed Zimmerman and that info is not in the cop report, either.  I mean, what's in the cop report sort of corroborates that, but the reporter doesn't source that info at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would explain why Zimmerman was not arrested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If that were his statement to the cops that night, and taking into consideration other witnesses and his wounds, and the law, yes, it would explain it.
> 
> Still, there is a lot we don't know.
> 
> It will be interesting if the newly assigned states attorney reaches the same conclusion.
Click to expand...

There is a video at the bottom of the page within the link.
Trayvon Martin case: George Zimmerman allies say 'it was a life and death struggle' | Mail Online


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would explain why Zimmerman was not arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> If that were his statement to the cops that night, and taking into consideration other witnesses and his wounds, and the law, yes, it would explain it.
> 
> Still, there is a lot we don't know.
> 
> It will be interesting if the newly assigned states attorney reaches the same conclusion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It would also be interesting to know that if all this is true, why didn't the police say so to begin with? Especially before the police chief stepped down. Just not making sense.
Click to expand...

It might make sense if the police didn't expect all this national uproar.  They usually keep their cards close to their chests.

My first thought when I read that from the Sentinal is that they are reporting it to try to diffuse the public anger, which is just as irresponsible as reporting to the public anger, IMO.

The press needs to just report the facts, when they report.  The can editorialize in an editorial.


----------



## The Gadfly

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
Click to expand...


Emma,

Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.

Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.


----------



## Foxfyre

Zimmerman has not been arrested because the police found no evidence at all that he was not acting in self defense.

Nevertheless, the victim's family is planning to file civil suit; the Black Panthers have a contract out on Zimmerman--where is the outrage from the media about THAT??????--and the Justice Dept. is going to hold hearings.   And a Grand Jury is being called.  Where are the hearings in the Jusice Dept. when a black person kills a white person???????

If Zimmerman is guilty of any wrong doing, that will eventually come out.  Until then it just makes you want to SCREAM at how racist and ideological this country has become, and faux outrage wins the day to perpetuate that.

Is ABC a neutral enough source for everybody?



> After fatally shooting Trayvon Martin, Florida community watch captain George Zimmerman "couldn't stop crying,'' according to a family friend who spoke with him Saturday.
> 
> "After this started &#8211; the reports I got &#8211; [Zimmerman] "couldn't stop crying,'' Joe Oliver told "Good Morning America" on Sunday.
> 
> Oliver, who said he is a close friend of the family, said Zimmerman has gone into hiding, fears for his life, and is "just now becoming aware of how big this has gotten."
> 
> Oliver, who has known Zimmerman for six years, said he has been in regular contact with members of Zimmerman's family, who have briefed him on Zimmerman's day-to-day reactions as the case has grown into a national referendum on race, gun laws and criminal justice.
> 
> *On Saturday, the militant New Black Panther Party offered a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman's "capture."*
> 
> Trayvon Martin Case: Timeline of Events
> 
> On Friday, members of the Miami Heat basketball team dispatched Twitter pictures showing team members wearing "hoodies," apparently in solidarity with the family of Martin, who was wearing the popular hooded jacket when he was shot.* Last week, President Obama weighed in on the controversial case, saying that if he had a son he would "look like" Trayvon Martin.*
> 
> Craig Sonner, an attorney advising Zimmerman who appeared on "GMA" alongside Oliver, confirmed Oliver's relationship to the family.
> 
> On Saturday, Oliver said that in recent days Zimmerman has contacted a number of his friends, asking them to speak publicly in his defense, but that each of them declined his request, fearing for their own safety.
> 
> *Zimmerman has not been charged with any crime. *
> 
> *The Justice Department and the FBI are investigating Zimmerman for possible civil rights violations, and a Seminole County grand jury will begin hearing evidence in the case on April 10.*
> 
> *Police who investigated the shooting said they found no evidence to refute Zimmerman's claims that he shot Martin in self-defense.*
> 
> The investigation included a re-enactment of the shooting the following day, according to authorities. Florida law allows licensed gun owners to use deadly force if they fear their lives are in danger.
> 
> In the course of speaking with ABC News over the weekend, the emotional toll the case has taken on Oliver himself became evident when he stopped talking to remove his glasses and wipe his eyes.
> 
> He said he considers Zimmerman as close "as a son," and he's deeply frustrated by his inability to protect the 28-year- old from such searing public censure.
> 
> While increasingly concerned for his safety, Zimmerman nonetheless believes that in time he will be exonerated in the court of public opinion, Oliver said.
> 
> "Up until this point, because he was there and he knows what happened, and because he's not in jail, he's been very confident &#8211; naively &#8211; that this will all blow over,'' Oliver said on GMA.
> 
> "I think when the other 911 tapes are released, and the other evidence comes out, I think it will show clearly that George Zimmerman was acting in self defense,'' Oliver said. "The question is: how far did he pursue? Who made the initial contact? What started the confrontation in the first place? The fact that the investigation so far has come out the way it has &#8211; because of Sanford's history &#8211; I find it hard to believe that the Sanford Police Department wouldn't have George in jail now if they had one&#8230;piece [of evidence] to support that fact. George Zimmerman is not in jail because&#8230;they don't have the evidence to arrest him."
> 
> Florida's increasingly controversial "stand your ground" law was passed in 2005, eliminating the requirement that a person seek an alternative &#8211; like fleeing &#8211; before using force if they felt they were in physical danger. . . . .
> Trayvon Martin Shooter 'Couldn't Stop Crying' After Shooting - Yahoo! News


----------



## koshergrl

Obama's son wouldn't look anything like Traynor.

Michelle and Obama aren't going to throw baby-faced boys. Just sayin.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Emma,
> 
> Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.
> 
> Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.
Click to expand...

actually you can be sitting on the ground and kick someone.


----------



## Swagger

Any indignant noise been made by the media over the white kid gunned down by three black guys on campus at Mississipi State University? So far as I can tell, this black-on-white murder is being treated as an "isolated incident".

Mississippi State president: Student's shooting believed 'isolated incident' - CNN


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Emma,
> 
> Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.
> 
> Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.
Click to expand...


You're still making up facts. There has been no published witness statement saying Martin was kicking Zimmerman.


----------



## koshergrl

You can't make up a fact, ravi.

Though I have to give you credit for trying!


----------



## GUNSIDEAUG

Maybe George Zimmerman did act in self-defense when he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, whose death Feb. 26 in Sanford, Florida, has been the focus of a media and political circus that even included Barack Obama weighing in this week.

An eyewitness to the incident told police Martin was beating Zimmerman before he shot him.

Zimmerman had called 911 to report the suspicious activities of a youth in his neighborhood, telling the dispatcher that he was following Martin. 

On the recording of another 911 call, repeated cries of help can be heard before the gunshot.

The witness, identified only as John, says those cries were made by Zimmerman who was on the ground being beaten by Martin.

The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: help, help  and I told him to stop and I was calling 911, he said. 

Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, while Zimmerman was wearing red.

When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point, John said.

Zimmerman claimed the shooting was self-defense. Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting. 

Meanwhile, the attack has been portrayed by most media outlets as a racist, vigilante-style assault by Zimmerman  a half-Hispanic, half-white, self-style neighborhood crime-watch captain  on an innocent role-model black teen-ager carrying only a cell phone and some Skittles


----------



## koshergrl

You need to reference your sources. Link it or you're going to get zapped.


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that were his statement to the cops that night, and taking into consideration other witnesses and his wounds, and the law, yes, it would explain it.
> 
> Still, there is a lot we don't know.
> 
> It will be interesting if the newly assigned states attorney reaches the same conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would also be interesting to know that if all this is true, why didn't the police say so to begin with? Especially before the police chief stepped down. Just not making sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It might make sense if the police didn't expect all this national uproar.  They usually keep their cards close to their chests.
> 
> My first thought when I read that from the Sentinal is that they are reporting it to try to diffuse the public anger, which is just as irresponsible as reporting to the public anger, IMO.
> 
> The press needs to just report the facts, when they report.  The can editorialize in an editorial.
Click to expand...


The thing is, we are relying on a PARTIAL police report (the basic incident report) NOT on the complete investigation file ( which is now in the hands of the State's Attorney and other investigators (FDLE, FBI). WE don't have any transcript of police interviews with Zimmerman, we don't have the complete sworn statements of witnesses to the police; all we've got, is speculation, and incomplete facts which have leaked out, (intentionally or otherwise). The police may have information that IS conclusive; they may have had that information weeks ago. We don't know any of that; all we really have is what's been reported in the media (much of it speculation, and/or shown by the limited facts we do have to be inaccurate or misleading). There's nothing in what we have to build a case on, except emotions. Let's let the authorities do their job, and wait for the investigation  (or review of the original investigation) conclude, before we go drawing unwarranted conclusions from incomplete facts.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma,
> 
> Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.
> 
> Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're still making up facts. There has been no published witness statement saying Martin was kicking Zimmerman.
Click to expand...

Facts are this A kid was killed who was suspended from school, who should have not been allowed to walk the streets as if he was on vacation. If his father had been a father he would have had his son trayvon at home grounded for being suspended, instead of walking the streets at night.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn what it echos. You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while walking your neighborhood? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its simple bigreb, you want to be on neighborhood watch?  Don't carry the gun.  You want to carry your gun?  Don't be on nieghborhood watch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh so you're at take your evening walk but you can't doing with a gun? Permit gives him the right according to Fl. state law to conceal carry his firearm in public.
Click to expand...


Personal evening walk, sure knock yourself out with the gun thingy.  Neighborhood watch program does not condone carrying a weapon on patrol period.  That should be clear.


----------



## Foxfyre

And in the spirit of presumed innocence until proven guilty. . . .



> Seminole State College will expel Trayvon Martin's avowed shooter, George Zimmerman, due to what they term the "high-profile controversy" surrounding his role in the 17-year-old's death.
> 
> Zimmerman has been an on-and-off student at the college since 2003. As of 2009, he was working towards an Associate in Arts degree.
> Trayvon Martin Shooting: George Zimmerman Kicked Out Of Seminole State College



The fact is none of us yet know exactly what did happen.  It may be that Zimmerman is the evil bully that the leftwing media is attempting to paint him, but they don't know yet.  But it isn't stopping them from trying to inflame public opinion against Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman is guilty of premeditated murder or manslaughter, he should experience the full force of the law brought to bear against him.

But until then, being tried the the court of public opinion is just wrong.


----------



## koshergrl

Exactly.

And wasn't it nighttime?

One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...

I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...

People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.


----------



## saveliberty

Normally, I'd agree Foxfyre.  In this case Zimmerman wasn't even going to be charged.  Public opinion brought needed review to the case in my opinion.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its simple bigreb, you want to be on neighborhood watch?  Don't carry the gun.  You want to carry your gun?  Don't be on nieghborhood watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so you're at take your evening walk but you can't doing with a gun? Permit gives him the right according to Fl. state law to conceal carry his firearm in public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Personal evening walk, sure knock yourself out with the gun thingy.  Neighborhood watch program does not condone carrying a weapon on patrol period.  That should be clear.
Click to expand...

You're taking your evening walk with your firearm you see a break in happening but you don't say a word and keep walking because you are carrying?


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And wasn't it nighttime?
> 
> One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...
> 
> I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...
> 
> People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.



Blame the victim?  How do you know running to the store for other people's wants wasn't a punishment?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And wasn't it nighttime?
> 
> One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...
> 
> I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...
> 
> People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.



I blame his father for the most part.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> And wasn't it nighttime?
> 
> One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...
> 
> I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...
> 
> People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the victim?  How do you know running to the store for other people's wants wasn't a punishment?
Click to expand...


Being grounded means you stay home you do not leave the house.


----------



## The Gadfly

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma,
> 
> Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.
> 
> Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're still making up facts. There has been no published witness statement saying Martin was kicking Zimmerman.
Click to expand...

You missed the entire point again. The essential facts here are that , so far as we know, NO WITNESS saw the final few seconds leading up to the gunshot. Therefore, the only REAL AND IMPARTIAL evidence of the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin AT THE MOMENT THE SHOT WAS FIRED HAS TO COME FROM THE AUTOPSY, AND SUBSEQUENT RECONSTRUCTION OF THE PATH OF THE BULLET. THAT'S IT. END OF STORY.


----------



## Truthmatters

Nope the momment is when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.

If Trayvon felt threatened under this stupid florida law he had a right to protect himself just like the right claims Zimmerman did.

Who was stalking whom that night?


That is your answer.
If Trayvon did ANYTHING at all to Zimmerman than he was merely protecting himself.


----------



## koshergrl

I predict Ravi will continue to miss the point, and will also continue to substitute imaginary vapidisms for anything like intelligent discussion.

That's what my crystal ball tells me.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Truthmatters said:


> Nope the momment is when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
> 
> If Trayvon felt threatened under this stupid florida law he had a right to protect himself just like the right claims Zimmerman did.
> 
> Who was stalking whom that night?
> 
> 
> That is your answer.
> If Trayvon did ANYTHING at all to Zimmerman than he was merely protecting himself.



There are reports that Zimmerman had started too return to his vehicle when Martin jumped Zimmerman.


----------



## koshergrl

Truthmatters said:


> Nope the momment is when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
> 
> If Trayvon felt threatened under this stupid florida law he had a right to protect himself just like the right claims Zimmerman did.
> 
> Who was stalking whom that night?
> 
> 
> That is your answer.
> If Trayvon did ANYTHING at all to Zimmerman than he was merely protecting himself.


 
If he followed him to Zimmerman's rv and cold cocked him, and got him down and tried to kick his head in (have you heard of curbing?) then I'd say zimmerman was right to defend himself.

Do you know what curb stomping is? Most teenaged boys do:

"Curb stomp is when you place someone's mouth on a cement curb, and then stomp on their head from behind to break out their teeth"
What is curb stomping? | ChaCha

In street fights, there is no positioning..they get the person down and they jump on the head when it's against the curb. It's deadly.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that were his statement to the cops that night, and taking into consideration other witnesses and his wounds, and the law, yes, it would explain it.
> 
> Still, there is a lot we don't know.
> 
> It will be interesting if the newly assigned states attorney reaches the same conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would also be interesting to know that if all this is true, why didn't the police say so to begin with? Especially before the police chief stepped down. Just not making sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It might make sense if the police didn't expect all this national uproar.  They usually keep their cards close to their chests.
> 
> My first thought when I read that from the Sentinal is that they are reporting it to try to diffuse the public anger, which is just as irresponsible as reporting to the public anger, IMO.
> 
> The press needs to just report the facts, when they report.  The can editorialize in an editorial.
Click to expand...

Maybe....but the national uproar could have been averted days ago if this is true.


----------



## Foxfyre

Apparently the Police Report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head and nose when they got there.  Wish we could access that report on line.



> . . . .Craig Sonner, Zimmermans attorney, insisted on NBCs Today show Monday that his client had been acting in self defense, noting that the neighborhood watch captain had suffered physical injuries from his encounter with Martin.
> 
> When the evidence comes out it will show that George Zimmerman was acting in self defense in this case, he said. George Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, injuries to the back of his head, and signs of a scuffle, being grass-stained on the back of his shirt.
> Sonner added, Its not a racial issue. George Zimmerman is absolutely not a racist. This, whatever happened that night was in self defense.
> 
> Meanwhile, Natalie Jackson, the attorney for Trayvon Martins family, said that the teenagers parents do not support the recent death threats made against Zimmerman, who has gone into hiding since Martins death caused an uproar.
> 
> They do not endorse or condone this. They want a lawful arrest in this case. They want the justice system and they want the legal system to work, she said in an appearance on CNN
> 
> Jackson argued that the police in Sanford, Fla., where Martin was shot last month, either bungled or ignored completely an investigation into the incident.
> Our legal team has had to put together investigators and take interview witness statements, pretty much trace the whole scene again and were willing to turn that information over to the prosecutors, she said. . . .
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin shooting: Gov. Rick Scott: Give George Zimmerman ?due process? - POLITICO.com


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> Apparently the Police Report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head and nose when they got there.  Wish we could access that report on line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . . .Craig Sonner, Zimmermans attorney, insisted on NBCs Today show Monday that his client had been acting in self defense, noting that the neighborhood watch captain had suffered physical injuries from his encounter with Martin.
> 
> When the evidence comes out it will show that George Zimmerman was acting in self defense in this case, he said. George Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, injuries to the back of his head, and signs of a scuffle, being grass-stained on the back of his shirt.
> Sonner added, Its not a racial issue. George Zimmerman is absolutely not a racist. This, whatever happened that night was in self defense.
> 
> Meanwhile, Natalie Jackson, the attorney for Trayvon Martins family, said that the teenagers parents do not support the recent death threats made against Zimmerman, who has gone into hiding since Martins death caused an uproar.
> 
> They do not endorse or condone this. They want a lawful arrest in this case. They want the justice system and they want the legal system to work, she said in an appearance on CNN
> 
> Jackson argued that the police in Sanford, Fla., where Martin was shot last month, either bungled or ignored completely an investigation into the incident.
> Our legal team has had to put together investigators and take interview witness statements, pretty much trace the whole scene again and were willing to turn that information over to the prosecutors, she said. . . .
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin shooting: Gov. Rick Scott: Give George Zimmerman ?due process? - POLITICO.com
Click to expand...


When I read something like that it really angers me at the father. If his father cared about  Trayvon, he would not have allowed him to roam the streets at night. He would have been grounded for being suspended and not walking the streets at night. The father is as much to blame as anyone.


----------



## Amelia

OMG, you're right - a responsible father wouldn't let his teenage son walk out in his girlfriend's secure neighborhood and go buy skittles.  

It's the father's fault that a chickenshit with a gun for balls decided Trayvon needed to be the one who didn't get away.


----------



## Si modo

Foxfyre said:


> Apparently the Police Report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head and nose when they got there.  Wish we could access that report on line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . . .Craig Sonner, Zimmermans attorney, insisted on NBCs Today show Monday that his client had been acting in self defense, noting that the neighborhood watch captain had suffered physical injuries from his encounter with Martin.
> 
> When the evidence comes out it will show that George Zimmerman was acting in self defense in this case, he said. George Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, injuries to the back of his head, and signs of a scuffle, being grass-stained on the back of his shirt.
> Sonner added, Its not a racial issue. George Zimmerman is absolutely not a racist. This, whatever happened that night was in self defense.
> 
> Meanwhile, Natalie Jackson, the attorney for Trayvon Martins family, said that the teenagers parents do not support the recent death threats made against Zimmerman, who has gone into hiding since Martins death caused an uproar.
> 
> They do not endorse or condone this. They want a lawful arrest in this case. They want the justice system and they want the legal system to work, she said in an appearance on CNN
> 
> Jackson argued that the police in Sanford, Fla., where Martin was shot last month, either bungled or ignored completely an investigation into the incident.
> Our legal team has had to put together investigators and take interview witness statements, pretty much trace the whole scene again and were willing to turn that information over to the prosecutors, she said. . . .
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin shooting: Gov. Rick Scott: Give George Zimmerman ?due process? - POLITICO.com
Click to expand...

Here's the cop report.


----------



## koshergrl

Amelia said:


> OMG, you're right - a responsible father wouldn't let his teenage son walk out in his girlfriend's secure neighborhood and go buy skittles.
> 
> It's the father's fault that a chickenshit with a gun for balls decided Trayvon needed to be the one who didn't get away.


 
His SUSPENDED son. Boys that age don't need to be roaming streets at night. Bad things happen to them, and they do bad things.

Idiots like you need to quit telling the parents it's okay to be sloppy and dumb.


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently the Police Report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head and nose when they got there.  Wish we could access that report on line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . . .Craig Sonner, Zimmermans attorney, insisted on NBCs Today show Monday that his client had been acting in self defense, noting that the neighborhood watch captain had suffered physical injuries from his encounter with Martin.
> 
> When the evidence comes out it will show that George Zimmerman was acting in self defense in this case, he said. George Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, injuries to the back of his head, and signs of a scuffle, being grass-stained on the back of his shirt.
> Sonner added, Its not a racial issue. George Zimmerman is absolutely not a racist. This, whatever happened that night was in self defense.
> 
> Meanwhile, Natalie Jackson, the attorney for Trayvon Martins family, said that the teenagers parents do not support the recent death threats made against Zimmerman, who has gone into hiding since Martins death caused an uproar.
> 
> They do not endorse or condone this. They want a lawful arrest in this case. They want the justice system and they want the legal system to work, she said in an appearance on CNN
> 
> Jackson argued that the police in Sanford, Fla., where Martin was shot last month, either bungled or ignored completely an investigation into the incident.
> Our legal team has had to put together investigators and take interview witness statements, pretty much trace the whole scene again and were willing to turn that information over to the prosecutors, she said. . . .
> 
> Read more: Trayvon Martin shooting: Gov. Rick Scott: Give George Zimmerman ?due process? - POLITICO.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I read something like that it really angers me at the father. If his father cared about  Trayvon, he would not have allowed him to roam the streets at night. He would have been grounded for being suspended and not walking the streets at night. The father is as much to blame as anyone.
Click to expand...

I would imagine the father is blaming himself a lot, even though he has no reason to do so.

How very sad for him that some blame him.


----------



## Amelia

koshergrl said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, you're right - a responsible father wouldn't let his teenage son walk out in his girlfriend's secure neighborhood and go buy skittles.
> 
> It's the father's fault that a chickenshit with a gun for balls decided Trayvon needed to be the one who didn't get away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His SUSPENDED son. Boys that age don't need to be roaming streets at night. Bad things happen to them, and they do bad things.
> 
> Idiots like you need to quit telling the parents it's okay to be sloppy and dumb.
Click to expand...




Walking to a 7-11 during a television game break isn't "roaming the streets".  It was a family night.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently the Police Report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head and nose when they got there.  Wish we could access that report on line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I read something like that it really angers me at the father. If his father cared about  Trayvon, he would not have allowed him to roam the streets at night. He would have been grounded for being suspended and not walking the streets at night. The father is as much to blame as anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would imagine the father is blaming himself a lot, even though he has no reason to do so.
> 
> How very sad for him that some blame him.
Click to expand...


His son should have been at home being punished for being suspended from school. The father controlled the situation from the beginning.


----------



## Toro

One of my best friends grew up in Sanford. His family has been there for generations. His father was on the city council. His grandfather was a successful businessman. He is also very much an opponent of Bush and conservatives, so he isn't your typical Republican. 

He, his father and a few others sat down over the weekend for over two hours with a NY Times reporter in a Sanford restaurant. What you have been hearing and seeing in the press is, according to him, a gross distortion of what has happened in Sanford.  I just had lunch with him. This is some of what he told me. I'll add some more later.  

Zimmerman was clearly over the top. He was one of these guys who fancied himself a policeman but who wasn't. The police instruct neighborhood watch volunteers to report suspects, not chase after them. He did not listen to the dispatcher who told him to not follow. Zimmerman had been a resident if the area for only a few years. 

Martin was something like 6'3". He was from Miami visiting his girlfriend. He had been suspended from school for nonviolent reasons. 

The Sanford police appear to not have done much wrong, given the timeline of what they knew and when they knew it. They were at the scene of the crime from 8pm to 3am. But it's a small police force that often doesn't deal with this. The police chief had been there for only 10 months and was brought in to make the force more professional. He stepped down due to political pressure. 

The main complaint of the black community towards the police is not white on black crime but black on black crime. The demonstrations in Sanford are mostly people who are bussed in. They aren't locals. The black leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton are demagoguing the issue. 

There had been 300 reports to the police of potential incidents in the gated community. The community is primarily condos in an industrial part of town by the Interstate. The community opened in 2007. Condos that sold for $250k back then are being sold for $80k now. Sanford Housing shut down all the projects in 2010, and residents have moved elsewhere, including this community. 

More later.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG, you're right - a responsible father wouldn't let his teenage son walk out in his girlfriend's secure neighborhood and go buy skittles.
> 
> It's the father's fault that a chickenshit with a gun for balls decided Trayvon needed to be the one who didn't get away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His SUSPENDED son. Boys that age don't need to be roaming streets at night. Bad things happen to them, and they do bad things.
> 
> Idiots like you need to quit telling the parents it's okay to be sloppy and dumb.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walking to a 7-11 during a television game break isn't "roaming the streets".  It was a family night.
Click to expand...


Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I read something like that it really angers me at the father. If his father cared about  Trayvon, he would not have allowed him to roam the streets at night. He would have been grounded for being suspended and not walking the streets at night. The father is as much to blame as anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine the father is blaming himself a lot, even though he has no reason to do so.
> 
> How very sad for him that some blame him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His son should have been at home being punished for being suspended from school. The father controlled the situation from the beginning.
Click to expand...

You parent differently than he does.    Maybe you should be more focused on being thankful that none of your loved ones got shot dead if you ever made a 'mistake' in disciplining as a parent.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Toro said:


> One of my best friends grew up in Sanford. His family has been there for generations. His father was on the city council. His grandfather was a successful businessman. He is also very much an opponent of Bush and conservatives, so he isn't your typical Republican.
> 
> He, his father and a few others sat down over the weekend for over two hours with a NY Times reporter in a Sanford restaurant. What you have been hearing and seeing in the press is, according to him, a gross distortion of what has happened in Sanford.  I just had lunch with him. This is some of what he told me. I'll add some more later.
> 
> Zimmerman was clearly over the top. He was one of these guys who fancied himself a policeman but who wasn't. The police instruct neighborhood watch volunteers to report suspects, not chase after them. He did not listen to the dispatcher who told him to not follow. Zimmerman had been a resident if the area for only a few years.
> 
> Jackson was something like 6'3". He was from Miami visiting his girlfriend. He had been suspended from school for nonviolent reasons.
> 
> The Sanford police appear to not have done much wrong, given the timeline of what they knew and when they knew it. They were at the scene of the crime from 8pm to 3am. But it's a small police force that often doesn't deal with this. The police chief had been there for only 10 months and was brought in to make the force more professional. He stepped down due to political pressure.
> 
> The main complaint of the black community towards the police is not white on black crime but black on black crime. The demonstrations in Sanford are mostly people who are bussed in. They aren't locals. The black leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton are demagoguing the issue.
> 
> There had been 300 reports to the police of potential incidents in the gated community. The community is primarily condos in an industrial part of town by the Interstate. The community opened in 2007. Condos that sold for $250k back then are being sold for $80k now. Sanford Housing shut down all the projects in 2010, and residents have moved elsewhere, including this community.
> 
> More later.


The suspension has been reported as behavioral issues.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine the father is blaming himself a lot, even though he has no reason to do so.
> 
> How very sad for him that some blame him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His son should have been at home being punished for being suspended from school. The father controlled the situation from the beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You parent differently than he does.    Maybe you should be more focused on being thankful that none of your loved ones got shot dead if you ever made a 'mistake' in disciplining as a parent.
Click to expand...


You're right that's why I was and am a good parent when my kids misbehaved they were punished accordingly. If they were grounded they did not get to leave the house. OH and if they were suspended from school which they never were, they would have been grounded for two months if not more.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> His SUSPENDED son. Boys that age don't need to be roaming streets at night. Bad things happen to them, and they do bad things.
> 
> Idiots like you need to quit telling the parents it's okay to be sloppy and dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walking to a 7-11 during a television game break isn't "roaming the streets".  It was a family night.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls
Click to expand...




I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is.  I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.

A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.


----------



## Ravi

Toro said:


> One of my best friends grew up in Sanford. His family has been there for generations. His father was on the city council. His grandfather was a successful businessman. He is also very much an opponent of Bush and conservatives, so he isn't your typical Republican.
> 
> He, his father and a few others sat down over the weekend for over two hours with a NY Times reporter in a Sanford restaurant. What you have been hearing and seeing in the press is, according to him, a gross distortion of what has happened in Sanford.  I just had lunch with him. This is some of what he told me. I'll add some more later.
> 
> Zimmerman was clearly over the top. He was one of these guys who fancied himself a policeman but who wasn't. The police instruct neighborhood watch volunteers to report suspects, not chase after them. He did not listen to the dispatcher who told him to not follow. Zimmerman had been a resident if the area for only a few years.
> 
> Jackson was something like 6'3". He was from Miami visiting his girlfriend. He had been suspended from school for nonviolent reasons.
> 
> The Sanford police appear to not have done much wrong, given the timeline of what they knew and when they knew it. They were at the scene of the crime from 8pm to 3am. But it's a small police force that often doesn't deal with this. The police chief had been there for only 10 months and was brought in to make the force more professional. He stepped down due to political pressure.
> 
> The main complaint of the black community towards the police is not white on black crime but black on black crime. The demonstrations in Sanford are mostly people who are bussed in. They aren't locals. The black leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton are demagoguing the issue.
> 
> There had been 300 reports to the police of potential incidents in the gated community. The community is primarily condos in an industrial part of town by the Interstate. The community opened in 2007. Condos that sold for $250k back then are being sold for $80k now. Sanford Housing shut down all the projects in 2010, and residents have moved elsewhere, including this community.
> 
> More later.



who is Jackson?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Walking to a 7-11 during a television game break isn't "roaming the streets".  It was a family night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is.  I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.
> 
> A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.
Click to expand...


The boy as you put it was suspended from school he should have been punished for that any good father would at least ground their child as punishment. And if he is being punished he should not have been allowed to go to the 7/11. He should not have jumped the fence in the gated community,m he should have not hit Zimmerman when Zimmerman was walking away.


----------



## Foxfyre

I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days.  But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility.  They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year.   In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children.  My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago.  At age 17, I was practically emancipated.

Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets.  Certainly not in a nicer gated community.  That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.

Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles.  Most are tried as adults.   And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.


----------



## Si modo

Foxfyre said:


> I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days.  But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility.  They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year.   In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to have children.  My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago.  At age 17, I was practically emancipated.
> 
> Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets.  Certainly not in a nicer gated community.  That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.
> 
> Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles.  Most are tried as adults.   And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.


From the cop report, Zimmerman was injured, too.

Yes, 17 year olds are perfectly capable of causing bodily harm and/or death to another kid or adult.


----------



## Foxfyre

Oh and thanks for posting the link to the Police Report Si Modo.  It is shown as a partial report, of course, and doesn't include statements from the witnesses shown.  We'll probably get that later on; maybe after the Grand Jury investigation.

Based on the very little that we know so far, however, I suspect that Zimmerman will be judged to have acted in self defense and no charges will be filed.  But because of the racist faux outrage that will nevertheless continue unabated, he will most likely have to move and hope he can re-establish some semblance of a normal life somewhere else.

And if it is determined that he is as guilty as some presume to already judge him, well so be it.  I hope justice will be done in that case too.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days.  But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility.  They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year.   In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children.  My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago.  At age 17, I was practically emancipated.
> 
> Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets.  Certainly not in a nicer gated community.  That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.
> 
> Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles.  Most are tried as adults.   And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.





> But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.



Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.


----------



## Amelia

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is.  I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.
> 
> A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The boy as you put it was suspended from school he should have been punished for that any good father would at least ground their child as punishment. And if he is being punished he should not have been allowed to go to the 7/11. *He should not have jumped the fence in the gated community*,m he should have not hit Zimmerman when Zimmerman was walking away.
Click to expand...



Link?  


You're still being ridiculous in your armchair parenting.  However, you are bringing a new-to-me element into this picture. 

Is it your contention that the home where Trayvon was visiting was not part of the gated community?


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days.  But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility.  They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year.   In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children.  My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago.  At age 17, I was practically emancipated.
> 
> Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets.  Certainly not in a nicer gated community.  That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.
> 
> Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles.  Most are tried as adults.   And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Trayvon was with his father visiting his father's fiancee who lived in that community.


----------



## Foxfyre

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days.  But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility.  They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year.   In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children.  My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago.  At age 17, I was practically emancipated.
> 
> Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets.  Certainly not in a nicer gated community.  That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.
> 
> Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles.  Most are tried as adults.   And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.
Click to expand...


But that is a separate issue.  If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did.  I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger.  That's all I'm saying.  Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded?   I did.     Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide.  And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.


----------



## Si modo

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days.  But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility.  They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year.   In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children.  My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago.  At age 17, I was practically emancipated.
> 
> Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets.  Certainly not in a nicer gated community.  That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.
> 
> Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles.  Most are tried as adults.   And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is a separate issue.  If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did.  I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger.  That's all I'm saying.  Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded?   I did.     Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide.  And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.
Click to expand...

Trayvon was with his father and his father was visiting HIS fiancee who lived there.

Trayvon called his girlfriend just before the shooting to tell her that someone was following him.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is.  I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.
> 
> A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The boy as you put it was suspended from school he should have been punished for that any good father would at least ground their child as punishment. And if he is being punished he should not have been allowed to go to the 7/11. *He should not have jumped the fence in the gated community*,m he should have not hit Zimmerman when Zimmerman was walking away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You're still being ridiculous in your armchair parenting.  However, you are bringing a new-to-me element into this picture.
> 
> Is it your contention that the home where Trayvon was visiting was not part of the gated community?
Click to expand...


First thing I detract the part about jumping the fence, I can no longer find any reference to the event happening. But I don't think that was the community trayvon lived in.

Secondly anyone who has been a parent knows from experience and can be an armchair parent.

3 I did find this as for the reason of his suspension

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## Toro

Ravi said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of my best friends grew up in Sanford. His family has been there for generations. His father was on the city council. His grandfather was a successful businessman. He is also very much an opponent of Bush and conservatives, so he isn't your typical Republican.
> 
> He, his father and a few others sat down over the weekend for over two hours with a NY Times reporter in a Sanford restaurant. What you have been hearing and seeing in the press is, according to him, a gross distortion of what has happened in Sanford.  I just had lunch with him. This is some of what he told me. I'll add some more later.
> 
> Zimmerman was clearly over the top. He was one of these guys who fancied himself a policeman but who wasn't. The police instruct neighborhood watch volunteers to report suspects, not chase after them. He did not listen to the dispatcher who told him to not follow. Zimmerman had been a resident if the area for only a few years.
> 
> Jackson was something like 6'3". He was from Miami visiting his girlfriend. He had been suspended from school for nonviolent reasons.
> 
> The Sanford police appear to not have done much wrong, given the timeline of what they knew and when they knew it. They were at the scene of the crime from 8pm to 3am. But it's a small police force that often doesn't deal with this. The police chief had been there for only 10 months and was brought in to make the force more professional. He stepped down due to political pressure.
> 
> The main complaint of the black community towards the police is not white on black crime but black on black crime. The demonstrations in Sanford are mostly people who are bussed in. They aren't locals. The black leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton are demagoguing the issue.
> 
> There had been 300 reports to the police of potential incidents in the gated community. The community is primarily condos in an industrial part of town by the Interstate. The community opened in 2007. Condos that sold for $250k back then are being sold for $80k now. Sanford Housing shut down all the projects in 2010, and residents have moved elsewhere, including this community.
> 
> More later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who is Jackson?
Click to expand...


Sorry.  Martin.


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently the Police Report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head and nose when they got there.  Wish we could access that report on line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I read something like that it really angers me at the father. If his father cared about  Trayvon, he would not have allowed him to roam the streets at night. He would have been grounded for being suspended and not walking the streets at night. The father is as much to blame as anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would imagine the father is blaming himself a lot, even though he has no reason to do so.
> 
> How very sad for him that some blame him.
Click to expand...


Yes it is sad, Si, but this thing is no longer about a tragedy; it's no longer about the pursuit of the truth, or justice; this is now about political and racial hatred and vengeance, about selling airtime and newspapers, and yes, even about election year politics, and to that end, it matters not how much irresponsible speculation there is, how many lies, half-truth and innuendos are presented as "facts"; it matters not who gets hurt, or even killed; it matters not, what the law is. The fanatics on both sides no longer care about either Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman, or their families; this is now about "winning" at any cost, and the devil take the hindmost. The "cause" has now overwhelmed and overshadowed the initial tragic incident from which it began, it's taken on a life of its own; a dark, poisonous, ugly, evil life, urging Americans to take a side, and spin up whatever lurid bits of dirt they can find, or even just imagine, to discredit the other; to paint Martin as a criminal, or Zimmerman as a racist killer; it's gone past any pretense of a search for the truth, into a disgusting attempt to rationalize the prejudice and hate that exists on both sides. Trayvon Martin is dead, but one side wants to demonize him and make him the symbol of everything they despise, and fear; George Zimmerman, isn't dead (yet) but the other side wants to demonize him, and make him into the symbol of everything they despise, and fear. That either was or is a human being doesn't matter anymore. The media stir the bubbling pot of rumors and allegations, and we the people greedily lap up every drop and dollop of the poisonous racially-charges swill that slops out of it, and regurgitate it everywhere. No matter which side "wins", the recriminations and counter recriminations will go on, and on, and on, until at best, the end result will be less understanding and more racial hatred than we had before, and at worst, even more blood will be spilled.


----------



## koshergrl

Amelia said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Walking to a 7-11 during a television game break isn't "roaming the streets". It was a family night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is. I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.
> 
> A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.
Click to expand...

 
If that's what happened.

However, at night, freaks tend to be out, and this kid either was one himself, or he fell victim to one. At any rate, kids with behavioral problems who have been suspended from school should not be out roaming the streets at night. Kids shouldn't be roaming around at night regardless. Someone dropped the ball and now this kid is dead. I wouldn't want to be the person who dropped it.


----------



## Si modo

koshergrl said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is. I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.
> 
> A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's what happened.
> 
> However, at night, freaks tend to be out, and this kid either was one himself, or he fell victim to one. At any rate, kids with behavioral problems who have been suspended from school should not be out roaming the streets at night. Kids shouldn't be roaming around at night regardless. Someone dropped the ball and now this kid is dead. I wouldn't want to be the person who dropped it.
Click to expand...

The shooting happened on or about 19:15 on 2/26/2012.  7ish on a Sunday night.

Yeah, lots of "freaks" out at that time.


----------



## Foxfyre

Si modo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that is a separate issue.  If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did.  I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger.  That's all I'm saying.  Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded?   I did.     Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide.  And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trayvon was with his father and his father was visiting HIS fiancee who lived there.
> 
> Trayvon called his girlfriend just before the shooting to tell her that someone was following him.
Click to expand...


Ah, I hadn't seen this, and it does give even a different perspective doesn't it.  But to be near where his father was visiting a friend and to be out walking in a residential gated neighborhood at Age 17 doesn't really sound like bad parenting to me.


----------



## Peach

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The boy as you put it was suspended from school he should have been punished for that any good father would at least ground their child as punishment. And if he is being punished he should not have been allowed to go to the 7/11. *He should not have jumped the fence in the gated community*,m he should have not hit Zimmerman when Zimmerman was walking away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You're still being ridiculous in your armchair parenting.  However, you are bringing a new-to-me element into this picture.
> 
> Is it your contention that the home where Trayvon was visiting was not part of the gated community?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First thing I detract the part about jumping the fence, I can no longer find any reference to the event happening. But I don't think that was the community trayvon lived in.
> 
> Secondly anyone who has been a parent knows from experience and can be an armchair parent.
> 
> 3 I did find this as for the reason of his suspension
> 
> Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.
> 
> Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.
> 
> Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel
Click to expand...



Yes, AP has a big headline about THIS also.......................................


----------



## Si modo

Foxfyre said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> But that is a separate issue.  If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did.  I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger.  That's all I'm saying.  Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded?   I did.     Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide.  And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was with his father and his father was visiting HIS fiancee who lived there.
> 
> Trayvon called his girlfriend just before the shooting to tell her that someone was following him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, I hadn't seen this, and it does give even a different perspective doesn't it.  But to be near where his father was visiting a friend and to be out walking in a residential gated neighborhood at Age 17 doesn't really sound like bad parenting to me.
Click to expand...

Right, me neither.  Martin was shot around 7 PM, too.  So, it wasn't like it was the wee hours of the night when creeps are out and about.

It's quite normal for a kid to run to the 7/11 at that hour.  Especially considering a 17 yo boy is with his father at his father's fiancee's house.  Most teens hate a parent's SO if it's not their other parent.  (Personal experience with that.)  So, maybe he was hating every minute of that visit and he needed to take a break and the father said he could run to the 7/11.

I cannot put an ounce of blame on his father.  It makes me a bit ill to even think of doing so.

The father is a Little League coach and says that Trayvon helps him with his coaching quite often.  Sounds like a great relationship between the two - doing volunteer work together, and all.


----------



## saveliberty

Zimmerman is all over calling 911 at the drop of a candy wrapper.  He doesn't call to report Martin approaching him (remember Zimmerman is following Martin)?  He doesn't pull his gun until after Martin hits him?  None of this passes the reasonable test.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Zimmerman is all over calling 911 at the drop of a candy wrapper.  He doesn't call to report Martin approaching him (remember Zimmerman is following Martin)?  He doesn't pull his gun until after Martin hits him?  None of this passes the reasonable test.


Why?  I wouldn't waste my time calling 911 again when someone was hitting me, either.  I already know the cops are on their way because 911 said they were.


----------



## Katzndogz

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.
Click to expand...


He was a pothead and that's why he was suspended.

SANFORD, Fla -- . Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boys family attorney has confirmed.

Trayvon was killed while serving out the suspension in Sanford Florida, where his fathers girlfriend lives. A community watch volunteer who thought he looked drugged out and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him

Read more here: Trayvon suspended over marijuana; thousands expected at rally - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> Zimmerman is all over calling 911 at the drop of a candy wrapper.  He doesn't call to report Martin approaching him (remember Zimmerman is following Martin)?  He doesn't pull his gun until after Martin hits him?  None of this passes the reasonable test.



CCW  carriers are trained only to pull your firearm when you have the intent to use it.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Katzndogz said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *He was a pothead and that's why he was suspended.*
> SANFORD, Fla -- . Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boys family attorney has confirmed.
> 
> Trayvon was killed while serving out the suspension in Sanford Florida, where his fathers girlfriend lives. A community watch volunteer who thought he looked drugged out and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him
> 
> Read more here: Trayvon suspended over marijuana; thousands expected at rally - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com
Click to expand...


He was not suspended because he was a pothead.


----------



## SFC Ollie

So no one thinks that the "New Black Panther Party" should be investigated and charged with conspiracy to commit murder for offering $10.000 reward Dead or Alive?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Katzndogz said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was a pothead and that's why he was suspended.
> 
> SANFORD, Fla -- . Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boys family attorney has confirmed.
> 
> Trayvon was killed while serving out the suspension in Sanford Florida, where his fathers girlfriend lives. A community watch volunteer who thought he looked drugged out and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him
> 
> Read more here: Trayvon suspended over marijuana; thousands expected at rally - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com
Click to expand...


Beat you to it posted a couple of post back


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *He was a pothead and that's why he was suspended.*
> SANFORD, Fla -- . Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy&#8217;s family attorney has confirmed.
> 
> Trayvon was killed while serving out the suspension in Sanford Florida, where his father&#8217;s girlfriend lives. A community watch volunteer who thought he looked drugged out and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him
> 
> Read more here: Trayvon suspended over marijuana; thousands expected at rally - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was not suspended because he was a pothead.
Click to expand...

He was suspended  for having an empty marijuana baggie


> Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.



Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## Si modo

SFC Ollie said:


> So no one thinks that the "New Black Panther Party" should be investigated and charged with conspiracy to commit murder for offering $10.000 reward Dead or Alive?


Oh, I would have a lawyer working on that one already, if I were him.


----------



## Foxfyre

SFC Ollie said:


> So no one thinks that the "New Black Panther Party" should be investigated and charged with conspiracy to commit murder for offering $10.000 reward Dead or Alive?



I mentioned that earlier.  Why is there no media contempt for that?  Though it is being mostly billed as $10,000 for Zimmerman's 'capture' rather than 'dead or alive'.  Or any of the other irrational accusations and activism generated by this before all the facts have been confirmed?

I swear we have become a nation of schoolyard juveniles rather than adults who can think and react critically and thoughtfully.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

SFC Ollie said:


> So no one thinks that the "New Black Panther Party" should be investigated and charged with conspiracy to commit murder for offering $10.000 reward Dead or Alive?



Most know where that will go as long as Holder is the AG.


----------



## koshergrl

Si modo said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is. I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.
> 
> A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that's what happened.
> 
> However, at night, freaks tend to be out, and this kid either was one himself, or he fell victim to one. At any rate, kids with behavioral problems who have been suspended from school should not be out roaming the streets at night. Kids shouldn't be roaming around at night regardless. Someone dropped the ball and now this kid is dead. I wouldn't want to be the person who dropped it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shooting happened on or about 19:15 on 2/26/2012. 7ish on a Sunday night.
> 
> Yeah, lots of "freaks" out at that time.
Click to expand...

 
7:30 at night, a school night...I dunno. I don't let my kids out in the evening. I certainly don't send them on foot to the 7/11. Ours is fairly tame, but even the one in my old hometown had a fatal shootout not that long ago.


----------



## saveliberty

Foxfyre said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So no one thinks that the "New Black Panther Party" should be investigated and charged with conspiracy to commit murder for offering $10.000 reward Dead or Alive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mentioned that earlier.  Why is there no media contempt for that?  Though it is being mostly billed as $10,000 for Zimmerman's 'capture' rather than 'dead or alive'.  Or any of the other irrational accusations and activism generated by this before all the facts have been confirmed?
> 
> I swear we have become a nation of schoolyard juveniles rather than adults who can think and react critically and thoughtfully.
Click to expand...


I'm not aware of any warrants out against Mr. Zimmerman.  Capturing him would be an illegal detention or kidnapping.  $10,000 isn't going to go very far in legal fees.


----------



## Foxfyre

I doubt that any who would try to collect that bounty would have much sense of the law, Save.

And isn't it lovely?  These t-shirts are already being sold on the street:


----------



## saveliberty

I called Aruix a mofo cracker last night...


----------



## koshergrl

Cute.


----------



## SFC Ollie

And the posters they are putting out do say Dead or Alive.


----------



## Ariux

Foxfyre said:


> I mentioned that earlier.  Why is there no media contempt for that?  Though it is being mostly billed as $10,000 for Zimmerman's 'capture' rather than 'dead or alive'.



That's typical of the media whitewashing blacks, to say "capture" instead of "dead".  The media also doesn't refer to the Black Panthers as a hate group.


----------



## saveliberty

Ariux said:


> That's typical of the media whitewashing blacks, to say "capture" instead of "dead".  The media also doesn't refer to the Black Panthers as a hate group.



Mofo cracker is back.


----------



## bayoubill

Foxfyre said:


> I doubt that any who would try to collect that bounty would have much sense of the law, Save.
> 
> And isn't it lovely?  These t-shirts are already being sold on the street:



lol... I must say, he's certainly "a credit to his race"... what with the thoughtfully intelligent countenance and sartorial splendor...

eta... from the look on his face, he sorta reminds me of a pith'd frog...


----------



## The Gadfly

saveliberty said:


> I called Aruix a mofo cracker last night...



Yeah. We KNOW he's a bigot. Now, what's YOUR excuse?


----------



## The Gadfly

SFC Ollie said:


> And the posters they are putting out do say Dead or Alive.



Where's Eric Holder's DOJ? The world wonders. I'd call those posters a conspiracy to violate George Zimmerman's civil rights, myself. I wonder what Eric Holder calls them? Oh, snap! I forgot; in Holder's mind, White people have no civil rights to be violated....I suppose if the NBPP lynches Zimmerman, and his family, that will be OK, as well.


----------



## HomeInspect

CHECK OUT THE DOUBLE STANDARD... "YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE, WHITE BOY"

FLASHBACK 2 Weeks Ago: &#8216;You get what you deserve, white boy&#8217;: Boy, 13, doused in gasoline and set alight in racially-motivated attack | The Last Refuge


----------



## Crackerjack

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so you're at take your evening walk but you can't doing with a gun? Permit gives him the right according to Fl. state law to conceal carry his firearm in public.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal evening walk, sure knock yourself out with the gun thingy.  Neighborhood watch program does not condone carrying a weapon on patrol period.  That should be clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're taking your evening walk with your firearm you see a break in happening but you don't say a word and keep walking because you are carrying?
Click to expand...

FWIW, my firearm is for use in defending my family and myself.  That's it.  If I see anything else going on, the tool I use is my cellphone.

Running into a situation one knows very little about and drawing a firearm is opening the door for all sorts of bad outcomes that simply aren't worth the risk.  Plus, every round I use for someone else is one less that I have to use to protect my family and my self.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personal evening walk, sure knock yourself out with the gun thingy.  Neighborhood watch program does not condone carrying a weapon on patrol period.  That should be clear.
> 
> 
> 
> You're taking your evening walk with your firearm you see a break in happening but you don't say a word and keep walking because you are carrying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FWIW, my firearm is for use in defending my family and myself.  That's it.  If I see anything else going on, the tool I use is my cellphone.
> 
> Running into a situation one knows very little about and drawing a firearm is opening the door for all sorts of bad outcomes that simply aren't worth the risk.  Plus, every round I use for someone else is one less that I have to use to protect my family and my self.
Click to expand...

But you are on the community watch and cannot carry while out of your house. that is according to some.


----------



## Crackerjack

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're taking your evening walk with your firearm you see a break in happening but you don't say a word and keep walking because you are carrying?
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, my firearm is for use in defending my family and myself.  That's it.  If I see anything else going on, the tool I use is my cellphone.
> 
> Running into a situation one knows very little about and drawing a firearm is opening the door for all sorts of bad outcomes that simply aren't worth the risk.  Plus, every round I use for someone else is one less that I have to use to protect my family and my self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you are on the community watch and cannot carry while out of your house. that is according to some.
Click to expand...

I think the reason neighborhood watch doesn't want people who are patrolling to carry is because they don't want to be held responsible for condoning it if/when something like this happens.

I believe a responsible firearms owner is capable of carrying and patrolling without incident.  If what Zimmerman's accusers say is true, he was acting irresponsibly.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, my firearm is for use in defending my family and myself.  That's it.  If I see anything else going on, the tool I use is my cellphone.
> 
> Running into a situation one knows very little about and drawing a firearm is opening the door for all sorts of bad outcomes that simply aren't worth the risk.  Plus, every round I use for someone else is one less that I have to use to protect my family and my self.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are on the community watch and cannot carry while out of your house. that is according to some.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the reason neighborhood watch doesn't want people who are patrolling to carry is because they don't want to be held responsible for condoning it if/when something like this happens.
> 
> I believe a responsible firearms owner is capable of carrying and patrolling without incident.  If what Zimmerman's accusers say is true, he was acting irresponsibly.
Click to expand...


But what they are saying isn't true.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you are on the community watch and cannot carry while out of your house. that is according to some.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the reason neighborhood watch doesn't want people who are patrolling to carry is because they don't want to be held responsible for condoning it if/when something like this happens.
> 
> I believe a responsible firearms owner is capable of carrying and patrolling without incident.  If what Zimmerman's accusers say is true, he was acting irresponsibly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what they are saying isn't true.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman hunted that kid down and killed him.  The kid fought back, good for him.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the reason neighborhood watch doesn't want people who are patrolling to carry is because they don't want to be held responsible for condoning it if/when something like this happens.
> 
> I believe a responsible firearms owner is capable of carrying and patrolling without incident.  If what Zimmerman's accusers say is true, he was acting irresponsibly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what they are saying isn't true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman hunted that kid down and killed him.  The kid fought back, good for him.
Click to expand...


Not according to the 911 audio

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk]George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin 911 Call - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Crackerjack

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you are on the community watch and cannot carry while out of your house. that is according to some.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the reason neighborhood watch doesn't want people who are patrolling to carry is because they don't want to be held responsible for condoning it if/when something like this happens.
> 
> I believe a responsible firearms owner is capable of carrying and patrolling without incident.  If what Zimmerman's accusers say is true, he was acting irresponsibly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what they are saying isn't true.
Click to expand...

I am not comfortable with taking either side, frankly.  From where I sit, the evidence that is publicly known at this point doesn't really favor either side.

But hey, I'm just some guy on the Internet.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what they are saying isn't true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman hunted that kid down and killed him.  The kid fought back, good for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to the 911 audio
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk]George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin 911 Call - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Wrong, Zimmerman pursued the kid, even after being told not to.  As the aggressor Zimmerman caught up to him and ultimately killed him.  It seems that was his intent from the begining.  Even Zimmerman's lawyer understands that.  Why can't you?


----------



## theHawk

The Gadfly said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the posters they are putting out do say Dead or Alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Eric Holder's DOJ? The world wonders. I'd call those posters a conspiracy to violate George Zimmerman's civil rights, myself. I wonder what Eric Holder calls them? Oh, snap! I forgot; in Holder's mind, White people have no civil rights to be violated....I suppose if the NBPP lynches Zimmerman, and his family, that will be OK, as well.
Click to expand...


Wow, wanted dead or alive posters?

Good going libs.  You're going to win a lot of hispanic votes this way.


----------



## saveliberty

This looks like a case of targeting to me.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the reason neighborhood watch doesn't want people who are patrolling to carry is because they don't want to be held responsible for condoning it if/when something like this happens.
> 
> I believe a responsible firearms owner is capable of carrying and patrolling without incident.  If what Zimmerman's accusers say is true, he was acting irresponsibly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what they are saying isn't true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not comfortable with taking either side, frankly.  From where I sit, the evidence that is publicly known at this point doesn't really favor either side.
> 
> But hey, I'm just some guy on the Internet.
Click to expand...


As I said what has been talked about here the defenders of Trayvon isn't true. new reports are coming showing that he wasn't the good little boy that was first reported. Even the audio from the 911 call distracts from what they say. Gang related drugs


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman hunted that kid down and killed him.  The kid fought back, good for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the 911 audio
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk]George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin 911 Call - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong, Zimmerman pursued the kid, even after being told not to.  As the aggressor Zimmerman caught up to him and ultimately killed him.  It seems that was his intent from the begining.  Even Zimmerman's lawyer understands that.  Why can't you?
Click to expand...


He followed someone who he had not seen in the area which had a high crime rate but he did stop following trayvon when ask to do so. Zimmerman did not catch up to him if you listen to the audio Trayvon approached Zimmerman.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the 911 audio
> 
> George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin 911 Call - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, Zimmerman pursued the kid, even after being told not to.  As the aggressor Zimmerman caught up to him and ultimately killed him.  It seems that was his intent from the begining.  Even Zimmerman's lawyer understands that.  Why can't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He followed someone who he had not seen in the area which had a high crime rate but he did stop following trayvon when ask to do so. Zimmerman did not catch up to him if you listen to the audio Trayvon approached Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


Following someone a considerable distance made Zimmerman the aggressor.  He did not break off his pursuit.  If he had, Zimmerman would have gone the opposite direction and the kid would not have pursued.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, Zimmerman pursued the kid, even after being told not to.  As the aggressor Zimmerman caught up to him and ultimately killed him.  It seems that was his intent from the begining.  Even Zimmerman's lawyer understands that.  Why can't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He followed someone who he had not seen in the area which had a high crime rate but he did stop following trayvon when ask to do so. Zimmerman did not catch up to him if you listen to the audio Trayvon approached Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Following someone a considerable distance made Zimmerman the aggressor.  He did not break off his pursuit.  If he had, Zimmerman would have gone the opposite direction and the kid would not have pursued.
Click to expand...


Trayvon approached Zimmerman, when Zimmerman was going back to his vehicle to wait for the police.


----------



## theHawk

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> He followed someone who he had not seen in the area which had a high crime rate but he did stop following trayvon when ask to do so. Zimmerman did not catch up to him if you listen to the audio Trayvon approached Zimmerman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone a considerable distance made Zimmerman the aggressor.  He did not break off his pursuit.  If he had, Zimmerman would have gone the opposite direction and the kid would not have pursued.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trayvon approached Zimmerman, when Zimmerman was going back to his vehicle to wait for the police.
Click to expand...


I think its obvious that Zimmerman confronted him to ask him what he was doing.
They probably had a heated exchange, and Zimmerman walked off.  The little wannabe thug probably thought he was being disrespected, so to earn some he jumped Zimmerman from behind.  He wailed on him, Zimmerman shouted for help.  Then the gun came out, little wannabe thug tried to get it from him, and pop - end of story.


Yes, it never would of happened if Zimmerman never approached him.  But he's still be alive if he had just walked off after Zimmerman left to get back in his car.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

theHawk said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following someone a considerable distance made Zimmerman the aggressor.  He did not break off his pursuit.  If he had, Zimmerman would have gone the opposite direction and the kid would not have pursued.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon approached Zimmerman, when Zimmerman was going back to his vehicle to wait for the police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think its obvious that Zimmerman confronted him to ask him what he was doing.
> They probably had a heated exchange, and Zimmerman walked off.  The little wannabe thug probably thought he was being disrespected, so to earn some he jumped Zimmerman from behind.  He wailed on him, Zimmerman shouted for help.  Then the gun came out, little wannabe thug tried to get it from him, and pop - end of story.
> 
> 
> Yes, it never would of happened if Zimmerman never approached him.  But he's still be alive if he had just walked off after Zimmerman left to get back in his car.
Click to expand...


Actually there is a video of the 911 call where Trayvon was at a distance and walking back towards Zimmerman.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> This looks like a case of targeting to me.


 
Yes, they were targeting thugs in the neighborhood. 

BTW, you have cognitive difficulties, don't you?


----------



## Dante

bigrebnc1775 said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon approached Zimmerman, when Zimmerman was going back to his vehicle to wait for the police.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think its obvious that Zimmerman confronted him to ask him what he was doing.
> They probably had a heated exchange, and Zimmerman walked off.  The little wannabe thug probably thought he was being disrespected, so to earn some he jumped Zimmerman from behind.  He wailed on him, Zimmerman shouted for help.  Then the gun came out, little wannabe thug tried to get it from him, and pop - end of story.
> 
> 
> Yes, it never would of happened if Zimmerman never approached him.  But he's still be alive if he had just walked off after Zimmerman left to get back in his car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually there is a video of the 911 call where Trayvon was at a distance and walking back towards Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


too bad you're too lazy to post a link. 


U.S. News - Trayvon Martin was suspended three times from school

In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing W.T.F. on a hallway locker,
according to a school report obtained by the Herald.
A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found womens rings
and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a burglary tool.

Ben Crump, an attorney for Martins parents, told the Herald they had never heard about the bag of jewelry.

And anyway, its completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26, Crump told the Miami Herald.
They never heard this and dont believe its true.


----------



## koshergrl

He had stolen shit in his bag, and a screwdriver.

He was a punk burglar. Zimmerman's lucky he didn't get a screwdriver to the temple.


----------



## Dante

[youtube]KmnqKotpSD0[/youtube]

sounds like Zimmerman was being beaten


----------



## Dante

[youtube]6aVwPqXc-bk[/youtube]

Zimmerman says "He's coming towards me. Coming to check me out"


Zimmerman sounds scared, but continues to follow.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Dante said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its obvious that Zimmerman confronted him to ask him what he was doing.
> They probably had a heated exchange, and Zimmerman walked off.  The little wannabe thug probably thought he was being disrespected, so to earn some he jumped Zimmerman from behind.  He wailed on him, Zimmerman shouted for help.  Then the gun came out, little wannabe thug tried to get it from him, and pop - end of story.
> 
> 
> Yes, it never would of happened if Zimmerman never approached him.  But he's still be alive if he had just walked off after Zimmerman left to get back in his car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually there is a video of the 911 call where Trayvon was at a distance and walking back towards Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> too bad you're too lazy to post a link.
> 
> 
> U.S. News - Trayvon Martin was suspended three times from school
> 
> In October, Martin was suspended with friends for writing W.T.F. on a hallway locker,
> according to a school report obtained by the Herald.
> A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found womens rings
> and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a burglary tool.
> 
> Ben Crump, an attorney for Martins parents, told the Herald they had never heard about the bag of jewelry.
> 
> And anyway, its completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26, Crump told the Miami Herald.
> They never heard this and dont believe its true.
Click to expand...


I've posted it several times dumb ass. as a matter a fact it's the same one you posted twice on this page. So why should I post the same video again which that same video you have posted it twice on this page.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Dante said:


> [youtube]6aVwPqXc-bk[/youtube]
> 
> Zimmerman says "He's coming towards me. Coming to check me out"
> 
> 
> Zimmerman sounds scared, but continues to follow.



Actually you are lying. Zimmerman had already stopped following Martin and was heading back to his SUV at this time


----------



## Si modo

Dante said:


> [youtube]6aVwPqXc-bk[/youtube]
> 
> Zimmerman says "He's coming towards me. Coming to check me out"
> 
> 
> Zimmerman sounds scared, but continues to follow.


I'm pretty sure Zimmerman was in his car when he said that.  He had yet to exit his vehicle to follow Martin.

Unless he said the same thing later.

But, that's pretty early in the tape and the timeline, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## koshergrl

Si modo said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [youtube]6aVwPqXc-bk[/youtube]
> 
> Zimmerman says "He's coming towards me. Coming to check me out"
> 
> 
> Zimmerman sounds scared, but continues to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Zimmerman was in his car when he said that. He had yet to exit his vehicle to follow Martin.
> 
> Unless he said the same thing later.
> 
> But, that's pretty early in the tape and the timeline, if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

 
How can he follow someone who is coming towards him?

I wouldn't want to be sitting in my vehicle either. The kid was staring at him, started coming towards him when he was in his vehicle, then when Zimmerman got out to meet him, turned and ran.

Zimmerman followed him a bit, and when the 911 operator told him to stop, he did and went back to his vehicle. And Trayvon came back and put a hurt on him.


----------



## Si modo

koshergrl said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [youtube]6aVwPqXc-bk[/youtube]
> 
> Zimmerman says "He's coming towards me. Coming to check me out"
> 
> 
> Zimmerman sounds scared, but continues to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Zimmerman was in his car when he said that. He had yet to exit his vehicle to follow Martin.
> 
> Unless he said the same thing later.
> 
> But, that's pretty early in the tape and the timeline, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can he follow someone who is coming towards him?
> 
> I wouldn't want to be sitting in my vehicle either. The kid was staring at him, started coming towards him when he was in his vehicle, then when Zimmerman got out to meet him, turned and ran.
> 
> Zimmerman followed him a bit, and when the 911 operator told him to stop, he did and went back to his vehicle. And Trayvon came back and put a hurt on him.
Click to expand...

After he said that, Zimmerman got out of his car to commence following the kid.  That's when the 911 operator told him, "We don't need you to [follow the kid]".


----------



## koshergrl

And he quit.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Zimmerman was in his car when he said that. He had yet to exit his vehicle to follow Martin.
> 
> Unless he said the same thing later.
> 
> But, that's pretty early in the tape and the timeline, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can he follow someone who is coming towards him?
> 
> I wouldn't want to be sitting in my vehicle either. The kid was staring at him, started coming towards him when he was in his vehicle, then when Zimmerman got out to meet him, turned and ran.
> 
> Zimmerman followed him a bit, and when the 911 operator told him to stop, he did and went back to his vehicle. And Trayvon came back and put a hurt on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After he said that, Zimmerman got out of his car to commence following the kid.  That's when the 911 operator told him, "We don't need you to [follow the kid]".
Click to expand...


The dispatcher said "we don't need you to  do that" Zimmerman said "OK"


----------



## koshergrl

And the altercation took place near his suv, so I don't think there's any doubt that zimmerman backed off.

Also, if you listen to the tape, he was in his car, talking to 911, and the kid started coming towards him, so he got out of his car and started walking towards him. Then the kid turned and ran, and he followed...and the 911 operator said not to, he said okay, and his huffing and puffing stopped. They ended up near the car, so obviously he went back.


----------



## Ravi

koshergrl said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> [youtube]6aVwPqXc-bk[/youtube]
> 
> Zimmerman says "He's coming towards me. Coming to check me out"
> 
> 
> Zimmerman sounds scared, but continues to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Zimmerman was in his car when he said that. He had yet to exit his vehicle to follow Martin.
> 
> Unless he said the same thing later.
> 
> But, that's pretty early in the tape and the timeline, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can he follow someone who is coming towards him?
> 
> I wouldn't want to be sitting in my vehicle either. The kid was staring at him, started coming towards him when he was in his vehicle, then when Zimmerman got out to meet him, turned and ran.
> 
> Zimmerman followed him a bit, and when the 911 operator told him to stop, he did and went back to his vehicle. And Trayvon came back and put a hurt on him.
Click to expand...

Martin would have had to "come toward" Zimmerman in order to get back to his father's fiance's home. The sinister is all in your mind.


----------



## Ravi

koshergrl said:


> *And the altercation took place near his suv*, so I don't think there's any doubt that zimmerman backed off.
> 
> Also, if you listen to the tape, he was in his car, talking to 911, and the kid started coming towards him, so he got out of his car and started walking towards him. Then the kid turned and ran, and he followed...and the 911 operator said not to, he said okay, and his huffing and puffing stopped. They ended up near the car, so obviously he went back.


Link? The shooting occurred behind two buildings, not in a place a car would be parked.


----------



## koshergrl

Ravi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Zimmerman was in his car when he said that. He had yet to exit his vehicle to follow Martin.
> 
> Unless he said the same thing later.
> 
> But, that's pretty early in the tape and the timeline, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can he follow someone who is coming towards him?
> 
> I wouldn't want to be sitting in my vehicle either. The kid was staring at him, started coming towards him when he was in his vehicle, then when Zimmerman got out to meet him, turned and ran.
> 
> Zimmerman followed him a bit, and when the 911 operator told him to stop, he did and went back to his vehicle. And Trayvon came back and put a hurt on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Martin would have had to "come toward" Zimmerman in order to get back to his father's fiance's home. The sinister is all in your mind.
Click to expand...

 


You've got proof of that? Cuz by all accounts, he jumped Zimmerman. I'm not sure how he'd "have" to do that to get home.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can he follow someone who is coming towards him?
> 
> I wouldn't want to be sitting in my vehicle either. The kid was staring at him, started coming towards him when he was in his vehicle, then when Zimmerman got out to meet him, turned and ran.
> 
> Zimmerman followed him a bit, and when the 911 operator told him to stop, he did and went back to his vehicle. And Trayvon came back and put a hurt on him.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin would have had to "come toward" Zimmerman in order to get back to his father's fiance's home. The sinister is all in your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got proof of that? Cuz by all accounts, he jumped Zimmerman. I'm not sure how he'd "have" to do that to get home.
Click to expand...


Here's the scenario:

You live in a small gated community that has a rash of break ins, you're out taking an evening walk. You observe someone you have never seen in the small community walking and looking at the homes. You follow them to see what they are doing. You call the police while they are en route the person approaches you and try's to take your gun away. What do you do?


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> *And the altercation took place near his suv*, so I don't think there's any doubt that zimmerman backed off.


that's not possible given where the altercation took place.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And the altercation took place near his suv*, so I don't think there's any doubt that zimmerman backed off.
> 
> 
> 
> that's not possible given where the altercation took place.
Click to expand...


It's possible when it did.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And the altercation took place near his suv*, so I don't think there's any doubt that zimmerman backed off.
> 
> 
> 
> that's not possible given where the altercation took place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's possible when it did.
Click to expand...

He was parked in that courtyard, halfway up?


----------



## Crackerjack

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Here's the scenario:
> 
> You live in a small gated community that has a rash of break ins, you're out taking an evening walk. You observe someone you have never seen in the small community walking and looking at the homes. You follow them to see what they are doing. You call the police while they are en route the person approaches you and try's to take your gun away. What do you do?


I may be missing the point, but Zimmerman was in his car.  Seems like a vastly different scenario.

Just for grins, and as you have some LEO experience, say you're the responding officer to this situation.  You're coming up on it knowing only what you see: a non-responsive subject on the ground, a subject standing nearby who looks like he's been in a struggle and has a handgun in his hands.  He volunteers that the shooting was in self defense.  What do you think and what do you do?

Honest question, mostly for my own edification.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the scenario:
> 
> You live in a small gated community that has a rash of break ins, you're out taking an evening walk. You observe someone you have never seen in the small community walking and looking at the homes. You follow them to see what they are doing. You call the police while they are en route the person approaches you and try's to take your gun away. What do you do?
> 
> 
> 
> I may be missing the point, but Zimmerman was in his car.  Seems like a vastly different scenario.
> 
> Just for grins, and as you have some LEO experience, say you're the responding officer to this situation.  You're coming up on it knowing only what you see: a non-responsive subject on the ground, a subject standing nearby who looks like he's been in a struggle and has a handgun in his hands.  He volunteers that the shooting was in self defense.  What do you think and what do you do?
> 
> Honest question, mostly for my own edification.
Click to expand...

I immanently take the firearm from him unload it and place it in the safety area of the car. I notify dispatch that a shooting as accrued.  I then protect the crime seine area and take a few notes while waiting on the detectives to arrive


----------



## Crackerjack

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the scenario:
> 
> You live in a small gated community that has a rash of break ins, you're out taking an evening walk. You observe someone you have never seen in the small community walking and looking at the homes. You follow them to see what they are doing. You call the police while they are en route the person approaches you and try's to take your gun away. What do you do?
> 
> 
> 
> I may be missing the point, but Zimmerman was in his car.  Seems like a vastly different scenario.
> 
> Just for grins, and as you have some LEO experience, say you're the responding officer to this situation.  You're coming up on it knowing only what you see: a non-responsive subject on the ground, a subject standing nearby who looks like he's been in a struggle and has a handgun in his hands.  He volunteers that the shooting was in self defense.  What do you think and what do you do?
> 
> Honest question, mostly for my own edification.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I immanently take the firearm from him unload it and place it in the safety area of the car. I notify dispatch that a shooting as accrued.  I then protect the crime seine area and take a few notes while waiting on the detectives to arrive
Click to expand...

So basically you secure the area and the parties involved and await others.

Would you have secured the shooter in any way, or just told him to stay there and not talk?  Also, is this generally a situation where you would come up on the shooter with your weapon drawn?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Crackerjack said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crackerjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may be missing the point, but Zimmerman was in his car.  Seems like a vastly different scenario.
> 
> Just for grins, and as you have some LEO experience, say you're the responding officer to this situation.  You're coming up on it knowing only what you see: a non-responsive subject on the ground, a subject standing nearby who looks like he's been in a struggle and has a handgun in his hands.  He volunteers that the shooting was in self defense.  What do you think and what do you do?
> 
> Honest question, mostly for my own edification.
> 
> 
> 
> I immanently take the firearm from him unload it and place it in the safety area of the car. I notify dispatch that a shooting as accrued.  I then protect the crime seine area and take a few notes while waiting on the detectives to arrive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So basically you secure the area and the parties involved and await others.
> 
> Would you have secured the shooter in any way, or just told him to stay there and not talk?  Also, is this generally a situation where you would come up on the shooter with your weapon drawn?
Click to expand...


Yes I would have. at that point until he was arrested or taken into custody I would not advice him of any rights to be silent


----------



## SFC Ollie

No comments on his friends statement this morning?

Zimmerman friend: Shooting not a racial incident - CBS News


----------



## Dante

Dante said:


> bayoubill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hispanic man who patrols his multicultural neighborhood is not a loser.
> 
> Hispanic man was seen on ground after shooting.
> 
> Hispanic man has a history of calling police.
> 
> Maybe black teen had issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'k... granted, I prolly shouldn'ta called the guy a loser (even if he was)...
> 
> otherwise, do you have a problem with the way I described things...?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> only that some of your assumptions are too stereotypical .. man assumes black kid has a weapon? why?
> 
> most street confrontations and fights start out  without people misreading each other, but many start because some people think they can do whatever they want.
> 
> there is no reason to believe the Hispanic guy wanted to challenge the young guy in a physical confrontation. Odds on favorite is black kid got physical first. Why? who knows.
Click to expand...


...deserve repeating


----------



## High_Gravity

SFC Ollie said:


> No comments on his friends statement this morning?
> 
> Zimmerman friend: Shooting not a racial incident - CBS News



Was the friend there? even Charles Manson has friends that swear up and down he was a clean innocent guy.


----------



## SFC Ollie

High_Gravity said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No comments on his friends statement this morning?
> 
> Zimmerman friend: Shooting not a racial incident - CBS News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the friend there? even Charles Manson has friends that swear up and down he was a clean innocent guy.
Click to expand...


I doubt that, but I wish I could find the interview from Fox & Friends this morning where Mr Oliver chokes up during the interview.....


----------



## bigrebnc1775

SFC Ollie said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No comments on his friends statement this morning?
> 
> Zimmerman friend: Shooting not a racial incident - CBS News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the friend there? even Charles Manson has friends that swear up and down he was a clean innocent guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt that, but I wish I could find the interview from Fox & Friends this morning where Mr Oliver chokes up during the interview.....
Click to expand...


Was this it?
Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman, Report Says | Fox News Latino


----------



## Ravi

Well, this is interesting:



> The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
> 
> But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
> 
> Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.
> 
> Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.



Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News

Don't know if it's true or not as later in the article ABC still seems fooled by the fake pictures of Martin floating around the internet.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Ravi said:


> Well, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
> 
> But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
> 
> Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.
> 
> Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
> 
> Don't know if it's true or not as later in the article ABC still seems fooled by the fake pictures of Martin floating around the internet.
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

"Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News. 
"Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense."

The night of the incident the cop wanted to charge him with manslaughter. But on review, it was determined there wasn't enough evidence."

Go figure.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> Well, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
> 
> But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
> 
> Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.
> 
> Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
> 
> Don't know if it's true or not as later in the article ABC still seems fooled by the fake pictures of Martin floating around the internet.
Click to expand...


There are some officers who do that also. but the DA looks at the laws and if their is enough evidence for a conviction. Why waste the time and money for a trial if their isn't enough evidence. I will also add there are more than one detective working the investigation of the crime seine.  Maybe detective Serino hadn't at the time talked with all the witnesses Maybe Chris Serino was the officer Zimmerman has got into a fight with a few years back.


----------



## koshergrl

"One complicating factor in the investigation was that the first detective to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective. "

Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News


----------



## Katzndogz

High_Gravity said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No comments on his friends statement this morning?
> 
> Zimmerman friend: Shooting not a racial incident - CBS News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was the friend there? even Charles Manson has friends that swear up and down he was a clean innocent guy.
Click to expand...


The friend is absolutely competent to judge whether Zimmerman is a racist or not.  Zimmerman has black friends who believe that this incident, no matter what happened, was not caused or aggravated by race.

Even if everything Zimmerman is accused of doing is true.  He killed Trayvon Martin in an unprovoked attack.  It still doesn't mean Zimmerman is a racist.   Do you think that if it was Thomas Martin, white guy, or Tomas Martinez, a mexican guy, the shooting woudn't have happened given the same circumstances?


----------



## Emma

Ravi said:


> Well, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
> 
> But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
> 
> Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.
> 
> *Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. *
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
Click to expand...


My God, I need some excedrin ...


----------



## koshergrl

Excedrin won't make you smarter, dear.


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> "One complicating factor in the investigation was that *the first detective* to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective. "
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News



*The lead homicide investigator* in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News. 

Per the police report, the _first_ investigator to question Zimmerman was D. Singleton, not Serino.


----------



## koshergrl

It doesn't matter. His suggestion was considered, then rejected. 

So can we trash the article? I mean, if it's wrong about that, who knows what else is inaccurate....


----------



## saveliberty

This ends up a plea to negligent homocide.


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> "One complicating factor in the investigation was that *the first detective* to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective. "
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The lead homicide investigator* in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
> 
> Per the police report, the _first_ investigator to question Zimmerman was D. Singleton, not Serino.
Click to expand...

That really fucks up the case. Singleton must be the narcotics cop.


----------



## uptownlivin90

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
> 
> But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
> 
> Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.
> 
> Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
> 
> Don't know if it's true or not as later in the article ABC still seems fooled by the fake pictures of Martin floating around the internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are some officers who do that also. but the DA looks at the laws and if their is enough evidence for a conviction. Why waste the time and money for a trial if their isn't enough evidence. I will also add there are more than one detective working the investigation of the crime seine.  Maybe detective Serino hadn't at the time talked with all the witnesses *Maybe Chris Serino was the officer Zimmerman has got into a fight with a few years back*.
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

Trayvon's upstanding friends ransack a store in protest:

Police: Trayvon protesters ransack store | News - Home


----------



## Emma

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> "One complicating factor in the investigation was that *the first detective* to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective. "
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The lead homicide investigator* in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
> 
> Per the police report, the _first_ investigator to question Zimmerman was D. Singleton, not Serino.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That really fucks up the case. Singleton must be the narcotics cop.
Click to expand...


Yes. 

Someone here predicted that there were no charges because the prosecutor wasn't sure of a "win". 

Seems that person was right.

Politics and keeping his percentage up.


----------



## koshergrl

and they aren't sure of a win because THERE'S NO EVIDENCE that supports the social medial sideliners' fantasy scenarios.


----------



## Ravi

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
> 
> Don't know if it's true or not as later in the article ABC still seems fooled by the fake pictures of Martin floating around the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are some officers who do that also. but the DA looks at the laws and if their is enough evidence for a conviction. Why waste the time and money for a trial if their isn't enough evidence. I will also add there are more than one detective working the investigation of the crime seine.  Maybe detective Serino hadn't at the time talked with all the witnesses *Maybe Chris Serino was the officer Zimmerman has got into a fight with a few years back*.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 Maybe Chris Serino is Zimmerman's ex, the one that claimed Zimmerman was physically abusive.


----------



## koshergrl

How sad for the people who wanted Zimmerman to be a racist. 

After all, there are never enough racists! We need them! We crave them!


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> How sad for the people who wanted Zimmerman to be a racist.
> 
> After all, there are never enough racists! We need them! We crave them!



The key they wanted was that zimmerman be white the racist part would follow.


----------



## Emma

That explains why the police report lists manslaughter as the offense (pages are noted to have been printed on 2/28). I'd wondered about that. 

I think it's interesting that those who supported the investigation when they believed the police felt Zimmerman didn't need to be charged are now changing their tune.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted to Charge George Zimmerman With Manslaughter - ABC News
> 
> Don't know if it's true or not as later in the article ABC still seems fooled by the fake pictures of Martin floating around the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are some officers who do that also. but the DA looks at the laws and if their is enough evidence for a conviction. Why waste the time and money for a trial if their isn't enough evidence. I will also add there are more than one detective working the investigation of the crime seine.  Maybe detective Serino hadn't at the time talked with all the witnesses *Maybe Chris Serino was the officer Zimmerman has got into a fight with a few years back*.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Well you have to look at all side to this mess.


----------



## koshergrl

Who is "they", Emma. And please point me to where anyone is changing their tune?

I just see race baiters changing direction....


----------



## uptownlivin90

We there EVER any forensic evidence taken at the scene?

Trajectory of the bullet?
Pictures of injuries?
Pictures of the scene?

I know we're waiting on toxicology results on Martin...


----------



## koshergrl

Bullet trajectory and pictures are all wrapped up with the autopsy, and the autopsy results haven't been released yet.

BUT the cops said the results are consistent with the report they received from Zimmerman.


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> That explains why the police report lists manslaughter as the offense (pages are noted to have been printed on 2/28). I'd wondered about that.
> 
> I think it's interesting that those who supported the investigation when they believed the police felt Zimmerman didn't need to be charged are now changing their tune.


This is the WORST thing about the stand your ground law. Cops AND the DA don't prosecute because their hands are tied by the law....I read that "justifiable" homicides have tripled since this law passed and this is exactly why.


----------



## uptownlivin90

bigrebnc1775 said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some officers who do that also. but the DA looks at the laws and if their is enough evidence for a conviction. Why waste the time and money for a trial if their isn't enough evidence. I will also add there are more than one detective working the investigation of the crime seine.  Maybe detective Serino hadn't at the time talked with all the witnesses *Maybe Chris Serino was the officer Zimmerman has got into a fight with a few years back*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well you have to look at all side to this mess.
Click to expand...


I'm not making fun of you bro.

I laughed at the thought of how horrifically unlucky that would be if it were actually the case..


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well you have to look at all side to this mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not making fun of you bro.
> 
> I laughed at the thought of how horrifically unlucky that would be if it were actually the case..
Click to expand...


There's always that possibility


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> and they aren't sure of a win because THERE'S NO EVIDENCE that supports the social medial sideliners' fantasy scenarios.



That doesn't necessarily equate to "no evidence". It could mean we have a prosecutor who prefers to take on 'slam-dunks'. It could also mean that while there _was_ evidence to charge (a homicide detective should know), there were too many unanswered questions about what happened that night, and too great a chance that a jury would find reasonable doubt and acquit.

I'd love to see the homicide detective's affidavit and why he felt Zimmerman's story didn't add up.


----------



## Foxfyre

bigrebnc1775 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> How sad for the people who wanted Zimmerman to be a racist.
> 
> After all, there are never enough racists! We need them! We crave them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The key they wanted was that zimmerman be white the racist part would follow.
Click to expand...


Yup.  I was reading one account this morning from some major media source--don't rememver which--that described Zimmerman as a _white_ Hispanic.  When is the last time anybody ever heard that characterization used?  When has anybody EVER heard that characterization used until now?   You don't get any more race baiting than that.


----------



## koshergrl

Yes, and pigs could fly.

The whole fantasy thing isn't my schtick. I like to stick with the facts, and the facts don't support an arrest.

The facts support zimmerman's account.

The facts paint this kid as a volatile criminal who was on a fast track to trouble.

Those are the facts.

Fantasy is that he was a wonderful, law abiding child, strolling along picking daisies, minding his own business, when some nasty white hispanic targeted and *hunted* him down.


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> Yes, and pigs could fly.
> 
> The whole fantasy thing isn't my schtick. I like to stick with the facts, and the facts don't support an arrest.
> 
> The facts support zimmerman's account.
> 
> The facts paint this kid as a volatile criminal who was on a fast track to trouble.
> 
> Those are the facts.
> 
> Fantasy is that he was a wonderful, law abiding child, strolling along picking daisies, minding his own business, when some nasty white hispanic targeted and *hunted* him down.



The fact is there is an affidavit from the lead homicide detective who had ALL the facts we don't and who felt Zimmerman's account wasn't consistent with the evidence. All along we had people posting here that the police had all the evidence, and therefore they had made the right decision. Now that we learn the lead detective wanted to charge manslaughter, y'all are doing a 180. 

I guess we have to wait for the GJ and FDLE / FBI investigations, eh?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> How sad for the people who wanted Zimmerman to be a racist.
> 
> After all, there are never enough racists! We need them! We crave them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The key they wanted was that zimmerman be white the racist part would follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup.  I was reading one account this morning from some major media source--don't rememver which--that described Zimmerman as a _white_ Hispanic.  When is the last time anybody ever heard that characterization used?  When has anybody EVER heard that characterization used until now?   You don't get any more race baiting than that.
Click to expand...


It's sad that whites who try to frame another white as a racist, in a race war they will be treated just as those whom they tried to frame as racist.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and pigs could fly.
> 
> The whole fantasy thing isn't my schtick. I like to stick with the facts, and the facts don't support an arrest.
> 
> The facts support zimmerman's account.
> 
> The facts paint this kid as a volatile criminal who was on a fast track to trouble.
> 
> Those are the facts.
> 
> Fantasy is that he was a wonderful, law abiding child, strolling along picking daisies, minding his own business, when some nasty white hispanic targeted and *hunted* him down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is there is an affidavit from the lead homicide detective who had ALL the facts we don't and who felt Zimmerman's account wasn't consistent with the evidence. All along we had people posting here that the police had all the evidence, and therefore they had made the right decision. Now that we learn the lead detective wanted to charge manslaughter, y'all are doing a 180.
> 
> I guess we have to wait for the GJ and FDLE / FBI investigations, eh?
Click to expand...


Many police officers have don that thought they had a case it is the job of the DA to take the evidence and get a conviction. Maybe the officer thought to much of himself and he had a case against zimmerman. And maybe the facts from the evidence showed something else.


----------



## Foxfyre

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key they wanted was that zimmerman be white the racist part would follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  I was reading one account this morning from some major media source--don't rememver which--that described Zimmerman as a _white_ Hispanic.  When is the last time anybody ever heard that characterization used?  When has anybody EVER heard that characterization used until now?   You don't get any more race baiting than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's sad that whites who try to frame another white as a racist, in a race war they will be treated just as those whom they tried to frame as racist.
Click to expand...


I don't know whether the writer/editor of that piece was black or white and that is irrelevent.  It is sad when the race card is assumed, pushed, invented, or played in all these situation by those who weren't there, who have no more information than anybody else, but jump to a conclusion of racism just because a black man was involved.  And it is especially reprehensible when they use a characterization like "white Hispanic" to pour gasoline on the fire.


----------



## koshergrl

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and pigs could fly.
> 
> The whole fantasy thing isn't my schtick. I like to stick with the facts, and the facts don't support an arrest.
> 
> The facts support zimmerman's account.
> 
> The facts paint this kid as a volatile criminal who was on a fast track to trouble.
> 
> Those are the facts.
> 
> Fantasy is that he was a wonderful, law abiding child, strolling along picking daisies, minding his own business, when some nasty white hispanic targeted and *hunted* him down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is there is an affidavit from the lead homicide detective who had ALL the facts we don't and who felt Zimmerman's account wasn't consistent with the evidence. All along we had people posting here that the police had all the evidence, and therefore they had made the right decision. Now that we learn the lead detective wanted to charge manslaughter, y'all are doing a 180.
> 
> I guess we have to wait for the GJ and FDLE / FBI investigations, eh?
Click to expand...

 
No, you idiot. The homicide detective on the night of the event did not have ALL the facts. This often happens...an investigation that looks one way initially ends up being something completely different as more evidence surfaces.

Moron.


----------



## Peach

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and pigs could fly.
> 
> The whole fantasy thing isn't my schtick. I like to stick with the facts, and the facts don't support an arrest.
> 
> The facts support zimmerman's account.
> 
> The facts paint this kid as a volatile criminal who was on a fast track to trouble.
> 
> Those are the facts.
> 
> Fantasy is that he was a wonderful, law abiding child, strolling along picking daisies, minding his own business, when some nasty white hispanic targeted and *hunted* him down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is there is an affidavit from the lead homicide detective who had ALL the facts we don't and who felt Zimmerman's account wasn't consistent with the evidence. All along we had people posting here that the police had all the evidence, and therefore they had made the right decision. Now that we learn the lead detective wanted to charge manslaughter, y'all are doing a 180.
> 
> I guess we have to wait for the GJ and FDLE / FBI investigations, eh?
Click to expand...


At least we know why Wolfinger took himself off the case.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  I was reading one account this morning from some major media source--don't rememver which--that described Zimmerman as a _white_ Hispanic.  When is the last time anybody ever heard that characterization used?  When has anybody EVER heard that characterization used until now?   You don't get any more race baiting than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's sad that whites who try to frame another white as a racist, in a race war they will be treated just as those whom they tried to frame as racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know whether the writer/editor of that piece was black or white and that is irrelevent.  It is sad when the race card is assumed, pushed, invented, or played in all these situation by those who weren't there, who have no more information than anybody else, but jump to a conclusion of racism just because a black man was involved.  And it is especially reprehensible when they use a characterization like "white Hispanic" to pour gasoline on the fire.
Click to expand...


Hi, Foxy...
Too long a thread for me to read it all, so I apologize if this has been said...but I want to disagree with your "...but jump to a conclusion of racism..."

1. The event took place about a month ago...why did it take so long to resonate as 'racism'?
Because it became useful as such to the falling poll numbers  of the Left's candidate.

2. The situation had to be framed just right...so Mr. Zimmerman became a 'white' Hispanic, rather than an Hispanic...

3. The alleged racial term that was used on the 911 call has now be elucidated as indecipherable...CNN admits it might be 'goon.'

4. Mr. Martin background not only seems to have had a violent cast to it....but Mr. Zimmerman might have had a broken nose and other injuries inflicted by a 6"3' football player....


So...as as Longfellow wrote...
Tell me not in mournful numbers,
"Life is but an empty dream!"
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And *things are not what they seem*.

What am I saying?
That, as is usual, the black community and Mr. Martin may be pawns in a game
played by the Left.


----------



## saveliberty

Its checkmate for Mr. Martin, PoliticalChic.


----------



## Foxfyre

PoliticalChic said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's sad that whites who try to frame another white as a racist, in a race war they will be treated just as those whom they tried to frame as racist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether the writer/editor of that piece was black or white and that is irrelevent.  It is sad when the race card is assumed, pushed, invented, or played in all these situation by those who weren't there, who have no more information than anybody else, but jump to a conclusion of racism just because a black man was involved.  And it is especially reprehensible when they use a characterization like "white Hispanic" to pour gasoline on the fire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi, Foxy...
> Too long a thread for me to read it all, so I apologize if this has been said...but I want to disagree with your "...but jump to a conclusion of racism..."
> 
> 1. The event took place about a month ago...why did it take so long to resonate as 'racism'?
> Because it became useful as such to the falling poll numbers  of the Left's candidate.
> 
> 2. The situation had to be framed just right...so Mr. Zimmerman became a 'white' Hispanic, rather than an Hispanic...
> 
> 3. The alleged racial term that was used on the 911 call has now be elucidated as indecipherable...CNN admits it might be 'goon.'
> 
> 4. Mr. Martin background not only seems to have had a violent cast to it....but Mr. Zimmerman might have had a broken nose and other injuries inflicted by a 6"3' football player....
> 
> 
> So...as as Longfellow wrote...
> Tell me not in mournful numbers,
> "Life is but an empty dream!"
> For the soul is dead that slumbers,
> And *things are not what they seem*.
> 
> What am I saying?
> That, as is usual, the black community and Mr. Martin may be pawns in a game
> played by the Left.
Click to expand...


We aren't really on different pages here.  My 'jump to conclusion' was intended to refer to those posting on this thread who don't know any more than the rest of us but 'jumped to a conclusion' that racism was involved.

But you are absolutely right that the characterization of Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic" was made with deliberation andf forethought and was intended to stir the pot.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Foxfyre said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether the writer/editor of that piece was black or white and that is irrelevent.  It is sad when the race card is assumed, pushed, invented, or played in all these situation by those who weren't there, who have no more information than anybody else, but jump to a conclusion of racism just because a black man was involved.  And it is especially reprehensible when they use a characterization like "white Hispanic" to pour gasoline on the fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, Foxy...
> Too long a thread for me to read it all, so I apologize if this has been said...but I want to disagree with your "...but jump to a conclusion of racism..."
> 
> 1. The event took place about a month ago...why did it take so long to resonate as 'racism'?
> Because it became useful as such to the falling poll numbers  of the Left's candidate.
> 
> 2. The situation had to be framed just right...so Mr. Zimmerman became a 'white' Hispanic, rather than an Hispanic...
> 
> 3. The alleged racial term that was used on the 911 call has now be elucidated as indecipherable...CNN admits it might be 'goon.'
> 
> 4. Mr. Martin background not only seems to have had a violent cast to it....but Mr. Zimmerman might have had a broken nose and other injuries inflicted by a 6"3' football player....
> 
> 
> So...as as Longfellow wrote...
> Tell me not in mournful numbers,
> "Life is but an empty dream!"
> For the soul is dead that slumbers,
> And *things are not what they seem*.
> 
> What am I saying?
> That, as is usual, the black community and Mr. Martin may be pawns in a game
> played by the Left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We aren't really on different pages here.  My 'jump to conclusion' was intended to refer to those posting on this thread who don't know any more than the rest of us but 'jumped to a conclusion' that racism was involved.
> 
> But you are absolutely right that the characterization of Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic" was made with deliberation andf forethought and was intended to stir the pot.
Click to expand...


Oops...the 'but I want to disagree with your "...but jump to a conclusion of racism..."'
My bad.

I misstated there...I was just picking a phrase from your post, not trying to attribute it to you.


----------



## PoliticalChic

saveliberty said:


> Its checkmate for Mr. Martin, PoliticalChic.



Just to make clear, save...I'm ready to wait for the investigation.

There was the observation of the old Romans, de mortuis nil nisi bonum: let no one speak ill of the dead.

While I believe the situation is being used, there is too much static to attribute guilt.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and pigs could fly.
> 
> The whole fantasy thing isn't my schtick. I like to stick with the facts, and the facts don't support an arrest.
> 
> The facts support zimmerman's account.
> 
> The facts paint this kid as a volatile criminal who was on a fast track to trouble.
> 
> Those are the facts.
> 
> Fantasy is that he was a wonderful, law abiding child, strolling along picking daisies, minding his own business, when some nasty white hispanic targeted and *hunted* him down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is there is an affidavit from the lead homicide detective who had ALL the facts we don't and who felt Zimmerman's account wasn't consistent with the evidence. All along we had people posting here that the police had all the evidence, and therefore they had made the right decision. Now that we learn the lead detective wanted to charge manslaughter, y'all are doing a 180.
> 
> I guess we have to wait for the GJ and FDLE / FBI investigations, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many police officers have don that thought they had a case it is the job of the DA to take the evidence and get a conviction. Maybe the officer thought to much of himself and he had a case against zimmerman. And maybe the facts from the evidence showed something else.
Click to expand...


Would you trust a lead homicide detective if his claim is that a party's statement of what occurred wasn't consistent with the evidence/investigation?


----------



## Foxfyre

The point I'm trying to make here is that I don't KNOW what happened that night beyond what I've read from numerous sources, some reporting objectively, some reporting in an infllammatory manner.  And neither does anybody else posting on this thread.

If Zimmerman was acting inappropriately for a volunteer neighborhood watchman; if he intentionally provoked or attacked the teenager; if he was just looking for an excuse to shoot somebody, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  Hopefully the Grand Jury will determine that.

If Martin in fact did attack Zimmerman and was doing violence to him, then Zimmerman using a weapon to defend himself may have been 100% justifiable.

Does any one of us have sufficient information to say which way it happened?

We have a neighborhood watch in our area and there are several young men who take it very seriously.  At least one of them has a carry permit and probably does.  More than once our neighborhood watch guys have reported youth vandals to the police or to the kids' parents and were severely criticized for doing so.   If there had been a violent incident as there was in Zimmerman's neighborhood that night, no doubt somebody would have accused and maligned our local guys too.  But I for one appreciate what they do and I believe we have a far more peaceful and crime free area than we would have without them.

I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.


----------



## koshergrl

Well they won't if progressive fascists are in charge, that's a given.


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> No, you idiot. The homicide detective on the night of the event did not have ALL the facts. This often happens...an investigation that looks one way initially ends up being something completely different as more evidence surfaces.
> 
> Moron.



Well, dumbass, you realize that the detective 'on the night of the investigation' was Singleton, not Serino?


----------



## Emma

Foxfyre said:


> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.



Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court. 

I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.


----------



## Foxfyre

Emma said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
Click to expand...


And you think he shouldn't walk without charges if a Grand Jury doesn't find reaonable cause to indict him?  You don't think a Grand Jury is figuratively 'getting your day in court'?

There are lots and lots of people who are racists who don't shoot anybody.  And there are lots and lots of non racists who for whatever reason find themselves in situations in which they do have to shoot somebody.  Zimmerman may in fact be a racist, a grade a jerk, a bully, a wannabe  cop or any of the other things he has been accused of.   And he may be just another citizen doing what he thought was right.  You don't know.  I don't know.

Thank God we don't have a justice system (yet) that is guided by people's prejudices and self proclamed judgments when such people don't have all the facts to arrive at a reasoned conclusion.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Emma said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
Click to expand...


Whether or not Zimmerman is racist - most people are to some extent - is irrelevant to the issue at hand, namely did Zimmerman act in self defense?  My guess is that regardless of race anyone on this board who had been knocked down and had the assailant sitting on his/her chest pounding his/her head against the ground - a young black kid is a witness to this - would have shot him and claimed self defense.   Even if Zimmerman is a racist, and there is no evidence that he is, his actions were no sufficient justification for Martin's attack on him, but Martin's attack was sufficient justification for Zimmerman to shoot him.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Foxfyre said:


> Thank God we don't have a justice system (yet) that is guided by people's prejudices and self proclamed judgments when such people don't have all the facts to arrive at a reasoned conclusion.



Listen to testimony at today's Congressional meeting by elected officials.


----------



## uptownlivin90

toomuchtime_ said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whether or not Zimmerman is racist - *most people are to some extent* - is irrelevant to the issue at hand, namely did Zimmerman act in self defense?  My guess is that regardless of race anyone on this board who had been knocked down and had the assailant sitting on his/her chest pounding his/her head against the ground - a young black kid is a witness to this - would have shot him and claimed self defense.   Even if Zimmerman is a racist, and there is no evidence that he is, his actions were no sufficient justification for Martin's attack on him, but Martin's attack was sufficient justification for Zimmerman to shoot him.
Click to expand...



Even if the emboldened is true... I hope you don't feel as though that makes it "okay". The rest of your post I agree with.


----------



## Ariux

toomuchtime_ said:


> Whether or not Zimmerman is racist - most people are to some extent -



Everyone out to lynch Zimmerman is motivated by racism.



> My guess is that regardless of race anyone on this board who had been knocked down and had the assailant sitting on his/her chest pounding his/her head against the ground - a young black kid is a witness to this - would have shot him and claimed self defense.



Everyone out to lynch Zimmerman would claim that Zimmerman deserved to be attack, so they know it was really self-defense.   They're just too racist to admit it.


----------



## koshergrl

Emma said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
Click to expand...

 
Yes, well, often innocent people do walk without charges.

And thank goodness. Otherwise, we'd just be under mob rule, and you'd just be the leader of a lynch mob.


----------



## saveliberty

A broken nose justifies deadly force?


----------



## Ariux

saveliberty said:


> A broken nose justifies deadly force?



Fans of the African are stupider than shit.  It wasn't just a bloody nose, it was an ongoing assault against a man who had no way of defending himself except with a gun.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> A broken nose justifies deadly force?


 
Yes, if the broken nose is followed by someone bashing your head repeatedly against concrete, and you scream for help repeatedly and the neighbors just duck into their houses BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID OF THE PERSON BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF YOU.


----------



## koshergrl

Besides which, fuck you if you contend that the attacker gets to determine the level of defense a person puts up.

You attack a person, you'd better be ready for the possibility that they might just fucking blow a hole in you.

Asswipe. I guarantee if you were ever subjected to a beating you'd scream like a stuck pig and grab the nearest available weapon and blast away. In my experience the people who scream the loudest that people shouldn't defend themselves adequately against attack are the biggest cowards when the chips are down. You are the ones who tuck tail and run when someone else is getting hurt, and you are the ones who are most likely to use more force than necessary when it comes to protecting your own yellow streaked ass.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> Besides which, fuck you if you contend that the attacker gets to determine the level of defense a person puts up.
> 
> You attack a person, you'd better be ready for the possibility that they might just fucking blow a hole in you.
> 
> Asswipe. I guarantee if you were ever subjected to a beating you'd scream like a stuck pig and grab the nearest available weapon and blast away. In my experience the people who scream the loudest that people shouldn't defend themselves adequately against attack are the biggest cowards when the chips are down. You are the ones who tuck tail and run when someone else is getting hurt, and you are the ones who are most likely to use more force than necessary when it comes to protecting your own yellow streaked ass.



Your experience is very limited then.  I have broke up many fights and confront people in the neighberhood who aren't acting properly.  Don't own a gun.  What sort of anger management issues you got?


----------



## koshergrl

I'll bet you have.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> I'll bet you have.



When I give a rat's ass about your opinion of me, I'll PM you.  Pretty much cleaned up my neighborhood twice, several years apart.  The neighbors know, that is all I really care about.  Your point of view is so uncertain, you've resorted to attacking posters.  How quaint.


----------



## koshergrl

Good for you! I'm sure you're a big man about the neighborhood.

Anyway, my evaluation stands.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> Good for you! I'm sure you're a big man about the neighborhood.
> 
> Anyway, my evaluation stands.



Stands for what?  Another opinion of a board poster mostly.


----------



## OODA_Loop

saveliberty said:


> A broken nose justifies deadly force?



Great bodily harm.


----------



## saveliberty

Ariux said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> A broken nose justifies deadly force?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fans of the African are stupider than shit.  It wasn't just a bloody nose, it was an ongoing assault against a man who had no way of defending himself except with a gun.
Click to expand...


Like you huh cracker?


----------



## koshergrl

OODA_Loop said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> A broken nose justifies deadly force?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great bodily harm.
Click to expand...

 
Plus bashing the head against the concrete. You can kill someone that way.

One of the first take down holds I learned...grab your guy by the hair with both hands and push him down, then hold his head down. Keep the head down, a man can't get up, and you can do whatever you like. 

It works for horses, too. If you sit on a horse's head, the horse can't get up. That's apropos of nothing, except I've done it.


----------



## Katzndogz

The police dont make any decisions other than the decision to arrest.  Then only upon probable cause.  The decision to prosecute is made by the district attorney.  The police are not lawyers.  In fact, lots of times the DA will say that there was no probable cause to make the arrest in the first place.  Then the suspect is released.


----------



## ABikerSailor

koshergrl said:


> Besides which, fuck you if you contend that the attacker gets to determine the level of defense a person puts up.
> 
> You attack a person, you'd better be ready for the possibility that they might just fucking blow a hole in you.
> 
> Asswipe. I guarantee if you were ever subjected to a beating you'd scream like a stuck pig and grab the nearest available weapon and blast away. In my experience the people who scream the loudest that people shouldn't defend themselves adequately against attack are the biggest cowards when the chips are down. You are the ones who tuck tail and run when someone else is getting hurt, and you are the ones who are most likely to use more force than necessary when it comes to protecting your own yellow streaked ass.



Interesting..............I've stopped fights around my house, over at the park and once at a place I liked to eat.  I didn't carry a gun, and never had to worry about getting my butt kicked.

Shooting someone should be used only as a LAST resort.  Cops are taught that, and so are the security forces of the military (of which I was a member).  The ONLY exception to that rule is if they have already deployed deadly force towards you (i.e. pointing a gun).


----------



## koshergrl

And the DA believes it was a last resort.

As do the witnesses, who were too fucking scared of your innocent black kid to intervene.


----------



## KissMy

Peach said:


> Most news accounts state Zimmerman followed the teenager; some say the shooter was "neighborhood watch", others SELF APPOINTED watch. I hope the SA moves fast on this case.



 What a wacko  Your hopes feelings & news stories are irrelevant  Judgment without facts or evidence is stupid 

It is best to not try the case without sufficient evidence. If the prosecutor loses then Zimmerman goes free forever even if rock solid damming evidence comes in proving that Zimmerman targeted, attacked & killed Martin for walking while black. Zimmerman can't be tried twice for the same crime (Double Jeopardy). The rush to judgment is stupid if you truly want justice.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

ABikerSailor said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides which, fuck you if you contend that the attacker gets to determine the level of defense a person puts up.
> 
> You attack a person, you'd better be ready for the possibility that they might just fucking blow a hole in you.
> 
> Asswipe. I guarantee if you were ever subjected to a beating you'd scream like a stuck pig and grab the nearest available weapon and blast away. In my experience the people who scream the loudest that people shouldn't defend themselves adequately against attack are the biggest cowards when the chips are down. You are the ones who tuck tail and run when someone else is getting hurt, and you are the ones who are most likely to use more force than necessary when it comes to protecting your own yellow streaked ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting..............I've stopped fights around my house, over at the park and once at a place I liked to eat.  I didn't carry a gun, and never had to worry about getting my butt kicked.
> 
> Shooting someone should be used only as a LAST resort.  Cops are taught that, and so are the security forces of the military (of which I was a member).  The ONLY exception to that rule is if they have already deployed deadly force towards you (i.e. pointing a gun).
Click to expand...


What cops are taught is to use the minimum amount of force necessary to take care of the situation.


----------



## Foxfyre

ABikerSailor said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides which, fuck you if you contend that the attacker gets to determine the level of defense a person puts up.
> 
> You attack a person, you'd better be ready for the possibility that they might just fucking blow a hole in you.
> 
> Asswipe. I guarantee if you were ever subjected to a beating you'd scream like a stuck pig and grab the nearest available weapon and blast away. In my experience the people who scream the loudest that people shouldn't defend themselves adequately against attack are the biggest cowards when the chips are down. You are the ones who tuck tail and run when someone else is getting hurt, and you are the ones who are most likely to use more force than necessary when it comes to protecting your own yellow streaked ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting..............I've stopped fights around my house, over at the park and once at a place I liked to eat.  I didn't carry a gun, and never had to worry about getting my butt kicked.
> 
> Shooting someone should be used only as a LAST resort.  Cops are taught that, and so are the security forces of the military (of which I was a member).  The ONLY exception to that rule is if they have already deployed deadly force towards you (i.e. pointing a gun).
Click to expand...


How about if they atacked you, split your lip, broke your nose, and have you flat on your back and are repeatedly slamming the back of your skull into the sidewalk?  Would you shoot?


----------



## koshergrl

No! That would never happen to a real man like ABS! A 6'3" 17 y.o. kid has nothing on him! He could hold him off with one hand and spank him with the other, while dialing the phone with his ass!

Cripes, how ridiculous.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides which, fuck you if you contend that the attacker gets to determine the level of defense a person puts up.
> 
> You attack a person, you'd better be ready for the possibility that they might just fucking blow a hole in you.
> 
> Asswipe. I guarantee if you were ever subjected to a beating you'd scream like a stuck pig and grab the nearest available weapon and blast away. In my experience the people who scream the loudest that people shouldn't defend themselves adequately against attack are the biggest cowards when the chips are down. You are the ones who tuck tail and run when someone else is getting hurt, and you are the ones who are most likely to use more force than necessary when it comes to protecting your own yellow streaked ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting..............I've stopped fights around my house, over at the park and once at a place I liked to eat.  I didn't carry a gun, and never had to worry about getting my butt kicked.
> 
> Shooting someone should be used only as a LAST resort.  Cops are taught that, and so are the security forces of the military (of which I was a member).  The ONLY exception to that rule is if they have already deployed deadly force towards you (i.e. pointing a gun).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about if they atacked you, split your lip, broke your nose, and have you flat on your back and are repeatedly slamming the back of your skull into the sidewalk?  Would you shoot?
Click to expand...

That's why cops are taught minimum amount of force necessary. You may be getting beat up one second and then get the upper hand the next if you have the upper hand and use deadly force you will go to jail. even though you were almost beat to death a few seconds earlier.


----------



## Foxfyre

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting..............I've stopped fights around my house, over at the park and once at a place I liked to eat.  I didn't carry a gun, and never had to worry about getting my butt kicked.
> 
> Shooting someone should be used only as a LAST resort.  Cops are taught that, and so are the security forces of the military (of which I was a member).  The ONLY exception to that rule is if they have already deployed deadly force towards you (i.e. pointing a gun).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about if they atacked you, split your lip, broke your nose, and have you flat on your back and are repeatedly slamming the back of your skull into the sidewalk?  Would you shoot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's why cops are taught minimum amount of force necessary. You may be getting beat up one second and then get the upper hand the next if you have the upper hand and use deadly force you will go to jail. even though you were almost beat to death a few seconds earlier.
Click to expand...


Maybe where you live.  The Albuquerque P.D. does a darn good job of handling difficult cases, but they are not required to allow themselves to get beat up.  They don't go to jail if they shoot somebody though they are suspended with pay until an investigation is completed.    Currently our new mayor is having a fit because he can't get the police union to stop paying the cops $1,000 to $1,500 bonuses every time they shoot somebody.  The union position is the cop needs room, space, and time to decompress after such an experience and the bonus is so they can get out of town and take a little vacation.  The mayor thinks it looks really, really bad.

I have never had to point a gun at anybody for any reason and God willing I will never need to do that.  But I can't fault somebody who is experiencing severe bodily harm and does whatever is necessary to defend himself/herself.

Again none of us know the full circumstances and can only go by the conflicting information we're getting via the media.  I wonder though, if those who are so convinced Zimmerman is the one in the wrong will accept it if the Grand Jury finds insufficient evidence to indict?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about if they atacked you, split your lip, broke your nose, and have you flat on your back and are repeatedly slamming the back of your skull into the sidewalk?  Would you shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> That's why cops are taught minimum amount of force necessary. You may be getting beat up one second and then get the upper hand the next if you have the upper hand and use deadly force you will go to jail. even though you were almost beat to death a few seconds earlier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe where you live.  The Albuquerque P.D. does a darn good job of handling difficult cases, but they are not required to allow themselves to get beat up.  They don't go to jail if they shoot somebody though they are suspended with pay until an investigation is completed.    Currently our new mayor is having a fit because he can't get the police union to stop paying the cops $1,000 to $1,500 bonuses every time they shoot somebody.  The union position is the cop needs room, space, and time to decompress after such an experience and the bonus is so they can get out of town and take a little vacation.  The mayor thinks it looks really, really bad.
> 
> I have never had to point a gun at anybody for any reason and God willing I will never need to do that.  But I can't fault somebody who is experiencing severe bodily harm and does whatever is necessary to defend himself/herself.
> 
> Again none of us know the full circumstances and can only go by the conflicting information we're getting via the media.  I wonder though, if those who are so convinced Zimmerman is the one in the wrong will accept it if the Grand Jury finds insufficient evidence to indict?
Click to expand...




> The Albuquerque P.D. does a darn good job of handling difficult cases, but they are not required to allow themselves to get beat up.


Sorry but that is not what I said. Police officers are taught to use minimum amount of force necessary. Thats not saying the police are required to get their ass kicked before they can use deadly force. If a police officer has control of the situation even though they may have just gotten the beating of their life they can no longer use deadly force.


----------



## Emma

Foxfyre said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *And you think he shouldn't walk without charges if a Grand Jury doesn't find reaonable cause to indict him?*  You don't think a Grand Jury is figuratively 'getting your day in court'?
Click to expand...


Will you please point out where I have ever said such a thing? 

A Grand Jury inquiry isn't the equivalent of getting ones day in court. If it were, we'd have to build a hell of a lot more prisons.


----------



## Emma

toomuchtime_ said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whether or not Zimmerman is racist - most people are to some extent - is irrelevant to the issue at hand, namely did Zimmerman act in self defense?  My guess is that regardless of race anyone on this board who had been knocked down and had the assailant sitting on his/her chest pounding his/her head against the ground - a young black kid is a witness to this - would have shot him and claimed self defense.   Even if Zimmerman is a racist, and there is no evidence that he is, his actions were no sufficient justification for Martin's attack on him, but Martin's attack was sufficient justification for Zimmerman to shoot him.
Click to expand...


I didn't say he IS racist. I'm saying, IF he is, that will come out at some point.


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, well, often innocent people do walk without charges.
> 
> And thank goodness. Otherwise, we'd just be under mob rule, and you'd just be the leader of a lynch mob.
Click to expand...


lol

whatever you want to think, skippy


----------



## koshergrl

So...if it were a black guy who had killed a white kid, you'd be okay with him being lodged even though all the evidence supported his version of events, in which he was defending himself?

Hell no. You'd shriek "he's being railroaded cuz he's BLACK!! RACIST POLICE! HALP! HALP!"


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> So...if it were a black guy who had killed a white kid, you'd be okay with him being lodged even though all the evidence supported his version of events, in which he was defending himself?
> 
> Hell no. You'd shriek "he's being railroaded cuz he's BLACK!! RACIST POLICE! HALP! HALP!"



You suck as a psychic.


----------



## koshergrl

I don't need psychic abilities. You idiots lay it all on the line and make it easy.


----------



## dilloduck

Emma said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not Zimmerman is racist - most people are to some extent - is irrelevant to the issue at hand, namely did Zimmerman act in self defense?  My guess is that regardless of race anyone on this board who had been knocked down and had the assailant sitting on his/her chest pounding his/her head against the ground - a young black kid is a witness to this - would have shot him and claimed self defense.   Even if Zimmerman is a racist, and there is no evidence that he is, his actions were no sufficient justification for Martin's attack on him, but Martin's attack was sufficient justification for Zimmerman to shoot him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say he IS racist. I'm saying, IF he is, that will come out at some point.
Click to expand...


In many people's mind every white person in the world is a racist. All they have to do is accuse you of it. How would you prove you are not a racist ? Say you have black friends?


----------



## Amelia

koshergrl said:


> So...if it were a black guy who had killed a white kid, you'd be okay with him being lodged even though all the evidence supported his version of events, in which he was defending himself?
> 
> Hell no. You'd shriek "he's being railroaded cuz he's BLACK!! RACIST POLICE! HALP! HALP!"




If the black guy were carrying a gun around, following people around, making them worried about what he might do, and then when tensions inevitably escalated he killed a white teenager but got off because he was able to claim self-defense ... there would be a whole lot of people saying that only happened because Eric Holder is in charge of the Justice Dept.  

Especially if it was thought that the black guy muttered "fucking crackers" under his breath 3 minutes before the shooting.


----------



## dilloduck

Is everyone enjoying watching blacks convict a white in the court of public opinion?


----------



## KissMy

bigrebnc1775 said:


> That's why cops are taught minimum amount of force necessary. You may be getting beat up one second and then get the upper hand the next if you have the upper hand and use deadly force you will go to jail. even though you were almost beat to death a few seconds earlier.



Yup - Cops are not supposed to beat the crap out of a subdued person just like Martin should not have kept pounding on Zimmerman after he was subdued & screaming for his life. Zimmerman had a legal right to shoot the enraged & irrational Martin who refused to stop beating a beaten man who was begging for help. At that point Zimmerman had no reason to believe Martin would ever stop beating him until dead. That is a legitimate fear of emanate death or major bodily harm that authorizes the use of a firearm against an unarmed attacker.

Even if Zimmerman started the fight by punching Martin first. It does not give Martin the right to beat to death the subdued Zimmerman, who is pinned to the ground, screaming for his life & trying to get away. Because Martin refused to stop beating the subdued Zimmerman, Zimmerman still has the same legitimate fear of emanate death or major bodily harm that authorizes the use of a firearm against an unarmed attacker.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Emma said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
Click to expand...


His friend and self appointed spokesman is A Mr Oliver. A Black Mr Oliver.... Hardly seems a white racist would have that good of a black friend.


----------



## dilloduck

Let's charge him, try him and have a jury of his peers find him not guilty. Should be interesting.


----------



## Ravi

saveliberty said:


> A broken nose justifies deadly force?


I hope not. I once gave a kid a broken nose because he groped me.


----------



## Zander

SFC Ollie said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to think everybody gets their day in court before we hang them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman isn't going to get his day in court.
> 
> I posted a long while back that I believe he'll walk without charges and that somewhere down the line he's going to get himself into a jam where he _can't_ claim 'self-defense'. IF he's a racist, then that will come to light someday, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His friend and self appointed spokesman is A Mr Oliver. A Black Mr Oliver.... Hardly seems a white racist would have that good of a black friend.
Click to expand...


Obviously Mr Oliver is an Uncle Tom.....


----------



## Zander

Here is a link to the initial report

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf


----------



## KissMy

Zander said:


> Here is a link to the initial report
> 
> http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf



The report confirms that Zimmerman was treated for his injuries at the scene. He still needed more medical attention the next day. I have read that he required stitches in the back of his head & had a broken nose.


----------



## The Gadfly

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and pigs could fly.
> 
> The whole fantasy thing isn't my schtick. I like to stick with the facts, and the facts don't support an arrest.
> 
> The facts support zimmerman's account.
> 
> The facts paint this kid as a volatile criminal who was on a fast track to trouble.
> 
> Those are the facts.
> 
> Fantasy is that he was a wonderful, law abiding child, strolling along picking daisies, minding his own business, when some nasty white hispanic targeted and *hunted* him down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is there is an affidavit from the lead homicide detective who had ALL the facts we don't and who felt Zimmerman's account wasn't consistent with the evidence. All along we had people posting here that the police had all the evidence, and therefore they had made the right decision. Now that we learn the lead detective wanted to charge manslaughter, y'all are doing a 180.
> 
> I guess we have to wait for the GJ and FDLE / FBI investigations, eh?
Click to expand...


Emma, that was his conclusion the night of the shooting, correct? A couple of things come to mind here. The investigation continued; were there facts which later came to light  that caused him to change that opinion? It's not clear. Second, It's entirely possible for two different police officers, equally experienced to look at the same case and the same set of facts and draw different conclusions, which is why the State's Attorney (or DA or solicitor, or whatever the office is called, makes the final decision on charging and seeking an indictment. The question that official has to ask, is a bit different from the ones an investigator asks in reaching a conclusion. The question now becomes" Do I believe I have enough evidence to get a True Bill (indictment)?. If so, do I have enough to reasonably believe I can get a conviction at trial?"

Now, would I love to know why the lead investigator drew the conclusion he did, that night? Of course; he may have picked up on something the rest of us haven't. He may also have drawn a conclusion that was invalidated by subsequent findings, or thrown in doubt by those findings. We don't know, either way. In this case, everything is being reviewed, and if there are facts we don't know, those should come to light when this is finished. Is it unreasonable, in light of that, to withhold our own judgment until ALL the relevant facts are revealed? I don't think so. Let the process finish, and conclude whatever it concludes. There's no point in continuing a battle of conjecture and wild speculations based on partial knowledge of the evidence in the case. I feel confident the FDLE and the FBI can do an adequate review, without our assistance. Let's just let them do their job.

Uptown said something last night to the effect that shouting accusations across the racial divide in this country is not going to do anything constructive toward solving our remaining issues with race. I was too tired to respond at the time, and can't find the post now, but for the record, I could not agree more; the constructive way to resolving those issues is through a calm and civil discussion WITH each other, instead of screaming accusations and counter accusations AT each other. Perhaps we could all try remembering that, and just calm down.


----------



## saveliberty

Foxfyre said:


> Maybe where you live.  The Albuquerque P.D. does a darn good job of handling difficult cases, but they are not required to allow themselves to get beat up.  They don't go to jail if they shoot somebody though they are suspended with pay until an investigation is completed.    Currently our new mayor is having a fit because he can't get the police union to stop paying the cops $1,000 to $1,500 bonuses every time they shoot somebody.  The union position is the cop needs room, space, and time to decompress after such an experience and the bonus is so they can get out of town and take a little vacation.  The mayor thinks it looks really, really bad.
> 
> I have never had to point a gun at anybody for any reason and God willing I will never need to do that.  But I can't fault somebody who is experiencing severe bodily harm and does whatever is necessary to defend himself/herself.
> 
> Again none of us know the full circumstances and can only go by the conflicting information we're getting via the media.  I wonder though, if those who are so convinced Zimmerman is the one in the wrong will accept it if the Grand Jury finds insufficient evidence to indict?



Yes, I'd accept whatever a grand jury had to say about this case Foxfyre.


----------



## Dante

*is this shit true?*



> t&#8217;s becoming more and more evident that 17-teen-year-old Trayvon Martin had fully embraced the anti white black thug culture that is so pervasive here in our country and that is, in fact, largely responsible for rotting the morals of our youth.
> 
> What could be even more alarming than this? I&#8217;ve just learned that the youth&#8217;s &#8220;no limit nigga&#8221; lingo -lingo that was found on his Twitter account &#8211; is actually POPULAR slang used by the Florida Black Foot Soldiers when they are talking about what they call &#8220;black on white (BOW) reparations protests.&#8217;
> 
> For those of you who don&#8217;t know, Black Foot Soldier BOW reparations protests are actully black on white robberies. They use lingo like this to mask their support of their support of crime and violence against whites for any reason.
> 
> What&#8217;s most important for us to all remember here? It&#8217;s most important to remember that the anti white black thug culture that Trayvon embraced emphatically hates white people and has ZERO respect for whites in positions of authority. - Trayvon Martin &#8220;Florida Black Foot Soldier Link&#8221; ESTABLISHED! &#8220;No Limit Nigga&#8217; Lingo is Popular Florida Black Foot Soldier Slang for &#8220;Black On White (BOW) Crime:&#8221; Had Teen Embraced Anti White Black Thug Culture & D



nationalblackfootsoldiernetwork


----------



## Ariux

Dante said:


> Whats most important for us to all remember here? Its most important to remember that the anti white black thug culture that Trayvon embraced emphatically hates white people and has ZERO respect for whites in positions of authority



Like so many of Al Sharpton's pet cases, the more light shined in these cases, the more obvious it becomes that Al Sharpton is championing criminals and hate.


----------



## Dante

Ariux said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats most important for us to all remember here? Its most important to remember that the anti white black thug culture that Trayvon embraced emphatically hates white people and has ZERO respect for whites in positions of authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like so many of Al Sharpton's pet cases, the more light shined in these cases, the more obvious it becomes that Al Sharpton is championing criminals and hate.
Click to expand...




			
				Dante quoting link said:
			
		

> *is this shit true?*
> 
> ts becoming more and more evident that 17-teen-year-old Trayvon Martin had fully embraced the anti white black thug culture that is so pervasive here in our country and that is, in fact, largely responsible for rotting the morals of our youth.
> 
> What could be even more alarming than this? Ive just learned that the youths no limit nigga lingo -lingo that was found on his Twitter account  is actually POPULAR slang used by the Florida Black Foot Soldiers when they are talking about what they call black on white (BOW) reparations protests.
> 
> For those of you who dont know, Black Foot Soldier BOW reparations protests are actully black on white robberies. They use lingo like this to mask their support of their support of crime and violence against whites for any reason.
> 
> Whats most important for us to all remember here? Its most important to remember that the anti white black thug culture that Trayvon embraced emphatically hates white people and has ZERO respect for whites in positions of authority. - Trayvon Martin Florida Black Foot Soldier Link ESTABLISHED! No Limit Nigga Lingo is Popular Florida Black Foot Soldier Slang for Black On White (BOW) Crime: Had Teen Embraced Anti White Black Thug Culture & D
> 
> nationalblackfootsoldiernetwork


----------



## Emma

> The original tweet containing the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers



I know there was a thread on this somewhere, but I can't find it now. Spike Lee needs to get on TV, twitter, FB and anywhere else he can think of and announce to the world he was _wrong_, not only that he had the incorrect address, but wrong to do so in the first place. 

Elderly couple abandons Florida home after tweets say Trayvon's killer lives there


----------



## saveliberty

Zimmerman shoved a police officer back in 2005 or 2006 in a bar.  Then he had charges of domestic violence against him as well.  Why does a person like this get to carry a gun out in public?


----------



## Dante

Emma said:


> The original tweet containing the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know there was a thread on this somewhere, but I can't find it now. Spike Lee needs to get on TV, twitter, FB and anywhere else he can think of and announce to the world he was _wrong_, not only that he had the incorrect address, but wrong to do so in the first place.
> 
> Elderly couple abandons Florida home after tweets say Trayvon's killer lives there
Click to expand...


sick. 

oh well. Spike meant well.


----------



## Peach

Emma said:


> The original tweet containing the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know there was a thread on this somewhere, but I can't find it now. Spike Lee needs to get on TV, twitter, FB and anywhere else he can think of and announce to the world he was _wrong_, not only that he had the incorrect address, but wrong to do so in the first place.
> 
> Elderly couple abandons Florida home after tweets say Trayvon's killer lives there
Click to expand...


I agree; and the family may take action. Lee's TWEET was way out of line.


----------



## KissMy

saveliberty said:


> Zimmerman shoved a police officer back in 2005 or 2006 in a bar.  Then he had charges of domestic violence against him as well.  Why does a person like this get to carry a gun out in public?



It is difficult to tell at the moment why those charges were dropped. Officers will charge you with those just for not immediately following or disobeying orders like "I told you to shut-up & you kept talking so now your going to jail" Or it could be that his father got them dropped for him or maybe he is close friends with some of the police.

Either way I believe he should patrol with a tazer instead of a gun. If he is putting himself into that situation, a lethal firearm should not be his only option.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> The original tweet containing the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know there was a thread on this somewhere, but I can't find it now. Spike Lee needs to get on TV, twitter, FB and anywhere else he can think of and announce to the world he was _wrong_, not only that he had the incorrect address, but wrong to do so in the first place.
> 
> Elderly couple abandons Florida home after tweets say Trayvon's killer lives there
Click to expand...

Man, would I EVER sue him?  You bet..........

What an asshole he is.


----------



## Ravi

saveliberty said:


> Zimmerman shoved a police officer back in 2005 or 2006 in a bar.  Then he had charges of domestic violence against him as well.  Why does a person like this get to carry a gun out in public?


From what I've read he has had three arrests and no convictions. And his father is a local ex-judge. And originally he was going to be charged with manslaughter in this case but wasn't. 

It makes you wonder.


----------



## Emma

Ravi said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman shoved a police officer back in 2005 or 2006 in a bar.  Then he had charges of domestic violence against him as well.  Why does a person like this get to carry a gun out in public?
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've read he has had three arrests and no convictions. And his father is a local ex-judge. And originally he was going to be charged with manslaughter in this case but wasn't.
> 
> It makes you wonder.
Click to expand...


His dad was a judge in VA. They moved to Florida maybe ... 10 years ago or so?


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman shoved a police officer back in 2005 or 2006 in a bar.  Then he had charges of domestic violence against him as well.  Why does a person like this get to carry a gun out in public?
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've read he has had three arrests and no convictions. And his father is a local ex-judge. And originally he was going to be charged with manslaughter in this case but wasn't.
> 
> It makes you wonder.
Click to expand...


at one time he was a punk, like Trayvon Martin was. Do people know what Ravi was like in 2006? I do.


----------



## Ravi

Emma said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman shoved a police officer back in 2005 or 2006 in a bar.  Then he had charges of domestic violence against him as well.  Why does a person like this get to carry a gun out in public?
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've read he has had three arrests and no convictions. And his father is a local ex-judge. And originally he was going to be charged with manslaughter in this case but wasn't.
> 
> It makes you wonder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His dad was a judge in VA. They moved to Florida maybe ... 10 years ago or so?
Click to expand...

According to this article, he was a judge in Orange County. Which is right next door to Seminole County, where the shooting took place.

George Zimmerman, Son of a Retired Judge, Has 3 Closed Arrests | Rolling Out - Black News, Celebrity Videos, Entertainment, Business & Politics


----------



## Dante

poor Ravi. she hates law enforcement and the courts. I wonder why?

tee hee hee


----------



## saveliberty

VanderSloot.


----------



## koshergrl

You guys need to decide on one conspiracy theory and stick to it.


----------



## koshergrl

I have a relative who is a judge and I have zero convictions.

CORRUPTION IS RIFE! OMG!


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> You guys need to decide on one conspiracy theory and stick to it.



Long way to fall from that pedestal your standing on koshergrl.


----------



## JimBowie1958

saveliberty said:


> VanderSloot.



Nifong,  Mangum, Evans, Finnerty, Seligmann


----------



## JimBowie1958

saveliberty said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys need to decide on one conspiracy theory and stick to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long way to fall from that pedestal your standing on koshergrl.
Click to expand...


Staying rational is not all that difficult, SL.

You should try it yourself and see what I mean.


----------



## Emma

Ravi said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've read he has had three arrests and no convictions. And his father is a local ex-judge. And originally he was going to be charged with manslaughter in this case but wasn't.
> 
> It makes you wonder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His dad was a judge in VA. They moved to Florida maybe ... 10 years ago or so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to this article, he was a judge in Orange County. Which is right next door to Seminole County, where the shooting took place.
> 
> George Zimmerman, Son of a Retired Judge, Has 3 Closed Arrests | Rolling Out - Black News, Celebrity Videos, Entertainment, Business & Politics
Click to expand...


Thanks for that. The article I read a few days ago about Zimmerman's past indicated his father had retired after moving from VA .


----------



## koshergrl

dilloduck said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not Zimmerman is racist - most people are to some extent - is irrelevant to the issue at hand, namely did Zimmerman act in self defense? My guess is that regardless of race anyone on this board who had been knocked down and had the assailant sitting on his/her chest pounding his/her head against the ground - a young black kid is a witness to this - would have shot him and claimed self defense. Even if Zimmerman is a racist, and there is no evidence that he is, his actions were no sufficient justification for Martin's attack on him, but Martin's attack was sufficient justification for Zimmerman to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he IS racist. I'm saying, IF he is, that will come out at some point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In many people's mind every white person in the world is a racist. All they have to do is accuse you of it. How would you prove you are not a racist ? Say you have black friends?
Click to expand...

 
Reprise:
Every white person on the planet is a racist UNLESS they state often and loudly that people of color are, by right of their color, much better people than whites, and owed a living by whites. If you will do those things, then YOU aren't a racist. 

The left essentially wants us to continue to be responsible for and apologetic to, all black people, without the benefit of their labor. It's liberal slavery. We should pay for them, control their breeding, build them lovely slave quarters (projects!) ..but heaven forbid they be asked to WORK. Could it be any more obvious?

Seriously. They view them as pets. Which is essentially how they view women, come to think of it.


----------



## saveliberty

JimBowie1958 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys need to decide on one conspiracy theory and stick to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long way to fall from that pedestal your standing on koshergrl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Staying rational is not all that difficult, SL.
> 
> You should try it yourself and see what I mean.
Click to expand...


Hope that made you feel better, because it does nothing to bolster your supposed "rational" position.  

What would be rational in this situation would be a complete investigation by outside sources and a grand jury.  Funny so many here seem opposed to that.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> Reprise:
> Every white person on the planet is a racist UNLESS they state often and loudly that people of color are, by right of their color, much better people than whites, and owed a living by whites. If you will do those things, then YOU aren't a racist.
> 
> The left essentially wants us to continue to be responsible for and apologetic to, all black people, without the benefit of their labor. It's liberal slavery. We should pay for them, control their breeding, build them lovely slave quarters (projects!) ..but heaven forbid they be asked to WORK. Could it be any more obvious?
> 
> Seriously. They view them as pets. Which is essentially how they view women, come to think of it.



I value all life.  Laws are for the benefit of the individual and society.  Society would like this matter considered a second time.


----------



## koshergrl

I'm not sure the powers that be have completed their first consideration of it.


----------



## saveliberty

Ture enough koshergrl.

The time lapse has just caused a whole different level of problems IMO.  Being patient and hearing all the facts is not easy.  I'm going to dial this back a bit.


----------



## KissMy

saveliberty said:


> Hope that made you feel better, because it does nothing to bolster your supposed "rational" position.
> 
> What would be rational in this situation would be a complete investigation by outside sources and a grand jury.  Funny so many here seem opposed to that.



We don't oppose another investigation. We oppose the baseless political racist allegations & putting out a unjustified contracted execution on Zimmerman. This is another political race stunt by the left just like racist accusations used against the TEA Party who were just trying to oppose the bailouts of rich bankers & the complete government takeover of the health-care system.

President Obama & his lying band of media whores are trying to paint the image for the uninformed of an evil racist KKK grand wizard trying to tie a noose around Obama's young black son's neck but wound up shooting the innocent child in the back as he was trying to escape. And please vote for Obama to right this horrible injustice because the racist police just covered up the incident for their KKK grand wizard.


----------



## koshergrl

What the hell is the FBI if not an "outside source"?????

What complete crap.


----------



## saveliberty

KissMy said:


> We don't oppose another investigation. We oppose the baseless political racist allegations & putting out a unjustified contracted execution on Zimmerman. This is another political race stunt by the left just like racist accusations used against the TEA Party who were just trying to oppose the bailouts of rich bankers & the complete government takeover of the health-care system.
> 
> President Obama & his lying band of media whores are trying to paint the image for the uninformed of an evil racist KKK grand wizard trying to tie a noose around Obama's young black son's neck but wound up shooting the innocent child in the back as he was trying to escape. And please vote for Obama to right this horrible injustice because the racist police just covered up the incident for their KKK grand wizard.



BS KissMy.  You should know me.  I'm usually a conservative voice here on this board for a fairly long time.  A person is dead.  Somethings seem very wrong here.  Don't you dare use "we" oppose this or that.  Speak for yourself.

I have not made racist allegations or supported the vigilante justice move in any way.  YOU are the one framing it as a move by the left.  I'm not the left, so you fail miserably.  Its justice for all, or its just a sham.  Man up.


----------



## Dante

saveliberty said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be rational in this situation would be a complete investigation by outside sources and a grand jury. Funny so many here seem opposed to that.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't oppose another investigation. We oppose the baseless political racist allegations & putting out a unjustified contracted execution on Zimmerman. This is another political race stunt by the left just like racist accusations used against the TEA Party who were just trying to oppose the bailouts of rich bankers & the complete government takeover of the health-care system.
> 
> President Obama & his lying band of media whores are trying to paint the image for the uninformed of an evil racist KKK grand wizard trying to tie a noose around Obama's young black son's neck but wound up shooting the innocent child in the back as he was trying to escape. And please vote for Obama to right this horrible injustice because the racist police just covered up the incident for their KKK grand wizard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BS KissMy.  You should know me.  I'm usually a conservative voice here on this board for a fairly long time.  A person is dead.  Somethings seem very wrong here.  Don't you dare use "we" oppose this or that.  Speak for yourself.
> 
> I have not made racist allegations or supported the vigilante justice move in any way.  YOU are the one framing it as a move by the left.  I'm not the left, so you fail miserably.  Its justice for all, or its just a sham.  Man up.
Click to expand...


who is against investigations? but why a state and federal investigation? you see evidence of a racial hate crime, a civil rights crime?


----------



## koshergrl

The racist hacks are against the investigation that is currently taking place, and propose some other "outside" investigators take over.

Because they are afraid the investigation won't lead to the lynching of zimmerman, who they think should be in prison RIGHT NOW, based on the fact that Trayvon was black.

Here's the thing...they also claim the cops are corrupt...but the first cop actually wanted to charge zimmerman with manslaughter, and the prosecutor told him no, you don't have enough evidence.

So now they have dragged in the DOJ and the FBI to investigate the investigation, based on the fact that they claim the cops botched it, based upon the fact that they didn't immediately arrest and charge Zimmerman for a crime for which there is zero evidence....even though the cops actually DID want to arrest. So where's the corruption on the part of the cops? Oh yeah, nevermind.

You figure it out. It's just more ignorant posturing by the left. Race baiting, beating at the walls of the *man*...no matter what happens, if this guy isn't flayed and the cops involved fired, they're going to riot. They're almost there already.

Mob rule, folks. Enjoy.


----------



## saveliberty

The local police admitted they didn't have much experience with crimes of this nature.  Why wouldn't they accept some help?  Sounds like the FBI is already involved now.  Its a wait and see thing. 

" The racist hacks are against the investigation that is currently taking place, and propose some other "outside" investigators take over." ~ koshergrl

Who you calling a racist hack?


----------



## Dante

saveliberty said:


> The local police admitted they didn't have much experience with crimes of this nature.  Why wouldn't they accept some help?  Sounds like the FBI is already involved now.  Its a wait and see thing.
> 
> " The racist hacks are against the investigation that is currently taking place, and propose some other "outside" investigators take over." ~ koshergrl
> 
> Who you calling a racist hack?



Why accept help? They have but only because a public that is screaming for a lynching demanded. Crimes of this nature?

what crime?  self defense? you've slipped here. crime?


----------



## KissMy

saveliberty said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't oppose another investigation. We oppose the baseless political racist allegations & putting out a unjustified contracted execution on Zimmerman. This is another political race stunt by the left just like racist accusations used against the TEA Party who were just trying to oppose the bailouts of rich bankers & the complete government takeover of the health-care system.
> 
> President Obama & his lying band of media whores are trying to paint the image for the uninformed of an evil racist KKK grand wizard trying to tie a noose around Obama's young black son's neck but wound up shooting the innocent child in the back as he was trying to escape. And please vote for Obama to right this horrible injustice because the racist police just covered up the incident for their KKK grand wizard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BS KissMy.  You should know me.  I'm usually a conservative voice here on this board for a fairly long time.  A person is dead.  Somethings seem very wrong here.  Don't you dare use "we" oppose this or that.  Speak for yourself.
> 
> I have not made racist allegations or supported the vigilante justice move in any way.  YOU are the one framing it as a move by the left.  I'm not the left, so you fail miserably.  Its justice for all, or its just a sham.  Man up.
Click to expand...


I don't see where I said you were involved in this political sham. I clearly stated I do not oppose another investigation, only the political media lynch mob that has lead to a $10,000 contract for executing Zimmerman.


----------



## ABikerSailor

KissMy said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't oppose another investigation. We oppose the baseless political racist allegations & putting out a unjustified contracted execution on Zimmerman. This is another political race stunt by the left just like racist accusations used against the TEA Party who were just trying to oppose the bailouts of rich bankers & the complete government takeover of the health-care system.
> 
> President Obama & his lying band of media whores are trying to paint the image for the uninformed of an evil racist KKK grand wizard trying to tie a noose around Obama's young black son's neck but wound up shooting the innocent child in the back as he was trying to escape. And please vote for Obama to right this horrible injustice because the racist police just covered up the incident for their KKK grand wizard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BS KissMy.  You should know me.  I'm usually a conservative voice here on this board for a fairly long time.  A person is dead.  Somethings seem very wrong here.  Don't you dare use "we" oppose this or that.  Speak for yourself.
> 
> I have not made racist allegations or supported the vigilante justice move in any way.  YOU are the one framing it as a move by the left.  I'm not the left, so you fail miserably.  Its justice for all, or its just a sham.  Man up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see where I said you were involved in this political sham. I clearly stated I do not oppose another investigation, only the political media lynch mob that has lead to a $10,000 contract for executing Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


Which media outlet exactly has put up the bounty?

BTW.........Zimmerman said he had a broken nose, but yet he waited until the FOLLOWING DAY for treatment.  Ever had a broken nose?  They hurt like hell and give you a black eye.

Additionally, wanna explain the "fucking coon" comment on Zimmerman's 911 call?

And, if he actually was getting his ass kicked as badly as claimed (some said he was being "curbed"), wouldn't there have been a lot more injury to his face and jaw?


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS KissMy.  You should know me.  I'm usually a conservative voice here on this board for a fairly long time.  A person is dead.  Somethings seem very wrong here.  Don't you dare use "we" oppose this or that.  Speak for yourself.
> 
> I have not made racist allegations or supported the vigilante justice move in any way.  YOU are the one framing it as a move by the left.  I'm not the left, so you fail miserably.  Its justice for all, or its just a sham.  Man up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where I said you were involved in this political sham. I clearly stated I do not oppose another investigation, only the political media lynch mob that has lead to a $10,000 contract for executing Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which media outlet exactly has put up the bounty?
> 
> BTW.........Zimmerman said he had a broken nose, but yet he waited until the FOLLOWING DAY for treatment.  Ever had a broken nose?  They hurt like hell and give you a black eye.
> 
> Additionally, wanna explain the "fucking coon" comment on Zimmerman's 911 call?
> 
> And, if he actually was getting his ass kicked as badly as claimed (some said he was being "curbed"), wouldn't there have been a lot more injury to his face and jaw?
Click to expand...

It wasn't a media outlet, it is the New Black Panthers who hav a 10K bounty on him.

Zimmerman was treated at the scene by paramedics.

The "fucking coon" comment is unintelligible.  It needs audio analysis to confirm it or rule it out.  I can wait.

As far as what his head wounds were, are you thinking the pic the press is using for him is from that night?


----------



## KissMy

ABikerSailor said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS KissMy.  You should know me.  I'm usually a conservative voice here on this board for a fairly long time.  A person is dead.  Somethings seem very wrong here.  Don't you dare use "we" oppose this or that.  Speak for yourself.
> 
> I have not made racist allegations or supported the vigilante justice move in any way.  YOU are the one framing it as a move by the left.  I'm not the left, so you fail miserably.  Its justice for all, or its just a sham.  Man up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where I said you were involved in this political sham. I clearly stated I do not oppose another investigation, only the political media lynch mob that has lead to a $10,000 contract for executing Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which media outlet exactly has put up the bounty?
> 
> BTW.........Zimmerman said he had a broken nose, but yet he waited until the FOLLOWING DAY for treatment.  Ever had a broken nose?  They hurt like hell and give you a black eye.
> 
> Additionally, wanna explain the "fucking coon" comment on Zimmerman's 911 call?
> 
> And, if he actually was getting his ass kicked as badly as claimed (some said he was being "curbed"), wouldn't there have been a lot more injury to his face and jaw?
Click to expand...


The incident happened at night & Zimmerman was detained & interrogated by police. After working all day, then chasing a suspect, fighting him, crying, being cuffed, treated by EMTs & interrogated until late hours. I imagine sleep & Tylenal/Ibuprofen felt a bit more urgent than sitting late at night in a waiting room for the Emergency Room. It was reported that Zimmerman did go to the doctor when he got up that morning. Yeah - He was depressed, tired as hell & in pain.

Zimmerman never said "fucking coon" on that 911 tape. I listened to many versions & at best it is "fucking punks". The media whores incited the New Black Panther to put out a $10,000 contract on Zimmerman. Thankfully that New Black Panther is now in jail.


----------



## uptownlivin90

ABikerSailor said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS KissMy.  You should know me.  I'm usually a conservative voice here on this board for a fairly long time.  A person is dead.  Somethings seem very wrong here.  Don't you dare use "we" oppose this or that.  Speak for yourself.
> 
> I have not made racist allegations or supported the vigilante justice move in any way.  YOU are the one framing it as a move by the left.  I'm not the left, so you fail miserably.  Its justice for all, or its just a sham.  Man up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where I said you were involved in this political sham. I clearly stated I do not oppose another investigation, only the political media lynch mob that has lead to a $10,000 contract for executing Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which media outlet exactly has put up the bounty?
> 
> *BTW.........Zimmerman said he had a broken nose, but yet he waited until the FOLLOWING DAY for treatment.*  Ever had a broken nose?  They hurt like hell and give you a black eye.
> 
> Additionally, wanna explain the "fucking coon" comment on Zimmerman's 911 call?
> 
> And, if he actually was getting his ass kicked as badly as claimed (some said he was being "curbed"), wouldn't there have been a lot more injury to his face and jaw?
Click to expand...


That's not suspicious to me, to be fair. Dwayne Wade broke Kobe Bryant's nose in the All-Star game and still Kobe played the rest of the game.

It hurts, but it's easy to break someone's nose. You don't really have to put much effort into it either. Just one punch or an elbow can do that. 

As for other injuries, it all depends on how long the beating took place. We don't actually know how long the two were scuffling, or the extent of Zimmerman's injuries.

A broken nose and a head wound doesn't constitute being beaten almost to death. Well... to be fair it could... depending on how bad the head wound was. If his head was being beaten on the sidewalk, he could have died. If the back of his head was bleeding profusely big chance Zimmerman's story checked out, if he had a small cut and a bruise, he could have hit his head on a rock or something. We don't know because we don't have pictures so we should jump to no conclusions. We shouldn't downplay the injuries or blow them up because we just don't know.

I have A LOT of questions though. They can't be answered until we have an autopsy report released however so it's no use in asking.

The point is AS OF TODAY there's no evidence that either party did anything wrong. Therefore Zimmerman should not be arrested.


----------



## paulitician

And what's up with Racist Democrats and Hoodies?


----------



## Dante

uptownlivin90 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where I said you were involved in this political sham. I clearly stated I do not oppose another investigation, only the political media lynch mob that has lead to a $10,000 contract for executing Zimmerman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which media outlet exactly has put up the bounty?
> 
> *BTW.........Zimmerman said he had a broken nose, but yet he waited until the FOLLOWING DAY for treatment.*  Ever had a broken nose?  They hurt like hell and give you a black eye.
> 
> Additionally, wanna explain the "fucking coon" comment on Zimmerman's 911 call?
> 
> And, if he actually was getting his ass kicked as badly as claimed (some said he was being "curbed"), wouldn't there have been a lot more injury to his face and jaw?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not suspicious to me, to be fair. Dwayne Wade broke Kobe Bryant's nose in the All-Star game and still Kobe played the rest of the game.
> 
> It hurts, but it's easy to break someone's nose. You don't really have to put much effort into it either. Just one punch or an elbow can do that.
> 
> As for other injuries, it all depends on how long the beating took place. We don't actually know how long the two were scuffling, or the extent of Zimmerman's injuries.
> 
> A broken nose and a head wound doesn't constitute being beaten almost to death. Well... to be fair it could... depending on how bad the head wound was. If his head was being beaten on the sidewalk, he could have died. If the back of his head was bleeding profusely big chance Zimmerman's story checked out, if he had a small cut and a bruise, he could have hit his head on a rock or something. We don't know because we don't have pictures so we should jump to no conclusions. We shouldn't downplay the injuries or blow them up because we just don't know.
> 
> I have A LOT of questions though. They can't be answered until we have an autopsy report released however so it's no use in asking.
> 
> The point is AS OF TODAY there's no evidence that either party did anything wrong. Therefore Zimmerman should not be arrested.
Click to expand...


exactly

wait according to police reports Trayvon did do something wrong


----------



## koshergrl

uptownlivin90 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where I said you were involved in this political sham. I clearly stated I do not oppose another investigation, only the political media lynch mob that has lead to a $10,000 contract for executing Zimmerman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which media outlet exactly has put up the bounty?
> 
> *BTW.........Zimmerman said he had a broken nose, but yet he waited until the FOLLOWING DAY for treatment.* Ever had a broken nose? They hurt like hell and give you a black eye.
> 
> Additionally, wanna explain the "fucking coon" comment on Zimmerman's 911 call?
> 
> And, if he actually was getting his ass kicked as badly as claimed (some said he was being "curbed"), wouldn't there have been a lot more injury to his face and jaw?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not suspicious to me, to be fair. Dwayne Wade broke Kobe Bryant's nose in the All-Star game and still Kobe played the rest of the game.
> 
> It hurts, but it's easy to break someone's nose. You don't really have to put much effort into it either. Just one punch or an elbow can do that.
> 
> As for other injuries, it all depends on how long the beating took place. We don't actually know how long the two were scuffling, or the extent of Zimmerman's injuries.
> 
> A broken nose and a head wound doesn't constitute being beaten almost to death. Well... to be fair it could... depending on how bad the head wound was. If his head was being beaten on the sidewalk, he could have died. If the back of his head was bleeding profusely big chance Zimmerman's story checked out, if he had a small cut and a bruise, he could have hit his head on a rock or something. We don't know because we don't have pictures so we should jump to no conclusions. We shouldn't downplay the injuries or blow them up because we just don't know.
> 
> I have A LOT of questions though. They can't be answered until we have an autopsy report released however so it's no use in asking.
> 
> The point is AS OF TODAY there's no evidence that either party did anything wrong. Therefore Zimmerman should not be arrested.
Click to expand...

 
Here's the thing..it isn't just about whether or not Zimmerman was beaten almost to death or whether Traynor could beat him to death (of course he could). It's did he THINK his life was in danger?

I think the people who heard him screaming and hid were pretty sure he thought his life was in danger, and I think they were pretty sure he was right, or they would have helped him.


----------



## KissMy

Martin could have been beating Zimmermans head on the ground instead of the sidewalk. That will still kill him without as much external damage. Zimmerman may have almost got knock out or seeing stars. That would scare the hell out of anyone.

The main fact in the case is that Martin continued to beat an already beaten man who was begging for his life. Martin had lost it & likely would have continued until he killed Zimmerman. That makes it legal to use a firearm against an unarmed man.


----------



## Foxfyre

KissMy said:


> Martin could have been beating Zimmermans head on the ground instead of the sidewalk. That will still kill him without as much external damage. Zimmerman may have almost got knock out or seeing stars. That would scare the hell out of anyone.
> 
> The main fact in the case is that Martin continued to beat an already beaten man who was begging for his life. Martin had lost it & likely would have continued until he killed Zimmerman. That makes it legal to use a firearm against an unarmed man.



Correct, IF that is the way it happened,

The fact is those who have already convicted Zimmerman in the court of public opinion don't know how it happened but they have already made up their minds.  And already they are combing through every bit of minutuae they can find to paint him as this angry, hateful, racist, power hungry bully with illusions of grandeur.  And his 'victim' is an innocent, baby faced, good kid who was attacked for no other reason than he was black.

Just as have those who are defending Zimmerman and have decided that Martin was the one at fault.  They are also doing everything they can to paint him as a juvenile delinquent would be gangster type who was up to no good and to show Zimmerman as a great guy who did nothing inappropriate that provoked the incident.

And the fact is, none of us know one way or the other exactly what happened that night.


----------



## ABikerSailor

KissMy said:


> Martin could have been beating Zimmermans head on the ground instead of the sidewalk. That will still kill him without as much external damage. Zimmerman may have almost got knock out or seeing stars. That would scare the hell out of anyone.
> 
> The main fact in the case is that Martin continued to beat an already beaten man who was begging for his life. Martin had lost it & likely would have continued until he killed Zimmerman. That makes it legal to use a firearm against an unarmed man.



If his head was beaten against the sidewalk badly enough, the paramedics would have taken him in for observation because of a possible concussion.

Seeing stars isn't really that scary, especially if you've ever boxed outside your weight class.

As far as "continued to bea an already beaten man", got proof, or are you just blowing smoke outta your ass again?


----------



## koshergrl

They have a witness who heard him screaming for help, and saw Traynor on top of him, whaling away.


----------



## koshergrl

Go back to your bottle, we've already been over all this. Repeatedly.


----------



## Peach

ABikerSailor said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin could have been beating Zimmermans head on the ground instead of the sidewalk. That will still kill him without as much external damage. Zimmerman may have almost got knock out or seeing stars. That would scare the hell out of anyone.
> 
> The main fact in the case is that Martin continued to beat an already beaten man who was begging for his life. Martin had lost it & likely would have continued until he killed Zimmerman. That makes it legal to use a firearm against an unarmed man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If his head was beaten against the sidewalk badly enough, the paramedics would have taken him in for observation because of a possible concussion.
> 
> Seeing stars isn't really that scary, especially if you've ever boxed outside your weight class.
> 
> As far as "continued to bea an already beaten man", got proof, or are you just blowing smoke outta your ass again?
Click to expand...


The fact one man claims injury & a teenager is dead does not enter into the equation with many, SADLY....................................


----------



## Amelia

koshergrl said:


> They have a witness who heard him screaming for help, and saw Traynor on top of him, whaling away.






Would you please at least give the dead young man the dignity of calling him by the correct name?  

By now you should know what it is.  

What message are you trying to send by misspelling it?


----------



## koshergrl

I just get it wrong. I thought his name was Martin Traynor at the beginning, and I keep slipping. Plus I'm not wearing my glasses, so I don't notice when I look at my posts.

Big whoop.


----------



## ABikerSailor

koshergrl said:


> They have a witness who heard him screaming for help, and saw Traynor on top of him, whaling away.



You mean......they have an anonymous "witness" who is trying to counteract what Trayvon's girlfriend said she heard while talking to him just before he was shot.

There's also another witness who wanted to make a statement, but the detectives wouldn't let her because her account differed from Zimmerman's.

Like I said, arrest him, let him post bail, and stand trial.  If he's acquitted, he's acquitted.

If not, he goes to jail.

If it was a black man who shot a Mexican kid, you can bet your ass that the black man would have been booked.


----------



## koshergrl

the witness isn't anonymous to the police. He's anonymous to the press.

The rest of your post is just pure garbage,  so I won't bother.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have a witness who heard him screaming for help, and saw Traynor on top of him, whaling away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean......they have an anonymous "witness" who is trying to counteract what Trayvon's girlfriend said she heard while talking to him just before he was shot.
> 
> There's also another witness who wanted to make a statement, but the detectives wouldn't let her because her account differed from Zimmerman's.
> 
> Like I said, arrest him, let him post bail, and stand trial.  If he's acquitted, he's acquitted.
> 
> If not, he goes to jail.
> 
> If it was a black man who shot a Mexican kid, you can bet your ass that the black man would have been booked.
Click to expand...

No.  The witness who says that is in the police report.  Their name is blacked out, and that was a good choice.

So, that witness has already made a statement to the cops.

As have others.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have a witness who heard him screaming for help, and saw Traynor on top of him, whaling away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean......they have an anonymous "witness" who is trying to counteract what Trayvon's girlfriend said she heard while talking to him just before he was shot.
> 
> There's also another witness who wanted to make a statement, but the detectives wouldn't let her because her account differed from Zimmerman's.
> 
> Like I said, arrest him, let him post bail, and stand trial.  If he's acquitted, he's acquitted.
> 
> If not, he goes to jail.
> 
> If it was a black man who shot a Mexican kid, you can bet your ass that the black man would have been booked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.  The witness who says that is in the police report.  Their name is blacked out, and that was a good choice.
> 
> So, that witness has already made a statement to the cops.
> 
> As have others.
Click to expand...


Wanna explain why one of the lead detectives said Zimmerman should have been arrested?


----------



## PredFan

ABikerSailor said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martin could have been beating Zimmermans head on the ground instead of the sidewalk. That will still kill him without as much external damage. Zimmerman may have almost got knock out or seeing stars. That would scare the hell out of anyone.
> 
> The main fact in the case is that Martin continued to beat an already beaten man who was begging for his life. Martin had lost it & likely would have continued until he killed Zimmerman. That makes it legal to use a firearm against an unarmed man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If his head was beaten against the sidewalk badly enough, the paramedics would have taken him in for observation because of a possible concussion.
> 
> Seeing stars isn't really that scary, especially if you've ever boxed outside your weight class.
> 
> As far as "continued to bea an already beaten man", got proof, or are you just blowing smoke outta your ass again?
Click to expand...


The proof is the witness who saw it and said so.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean......they have an anonymous "witness" who is trying to counteract what Trayvon's girlfriend said she heard while talking to him just before he was shot.
> 
> There's also another witness who wanted to make a statement, but the detectives wouldn't let her because her account differed from Zimmerman's.
> 
> Like I said, arrest him, let him post bail, and stand trial.  If he's acquitted, he's acquitted.
> 
> If not, he goes to jail.
> 
> If it was a black man who shot a Mexican kid, you can bet your ass that the black man would have been booked.
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The witness who says that is in the police report.  Their name is blacked out, and that was a good choice.
> 
> So, that witness has already made a statement to the cops.
> 
> As have others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wanna explain why one of the lead detectives said Zimmerman should have been arrested?
Click to expand...

No senior "detective" said any such thing in the police report.

Is there another police report where someone says that?

It's not in this one.


----------



## PredFan

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean......they have an anonymous "witness" who is trying to counteract what Trayvon's girlfriend said she heard while talking to him just before he was shot.
> 
> There's also another witness who wanted to make a statement, but the detectives wouldn't let her because her account differed from Zimmerman's.
> 
> Like I said, arrest him, let him post bail, and stand trial.  If he's acquitted, he's acquitted.
> 
> If not, he goes to jail.
> 
> If it was a black man who shot a Mexican kid, you can bet your ass that the black man would have been booked.
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The witness who says that is in the police report.  Their name is blacked out, and that was a good choice.
> 
> So, that witness has already made a statement to the cops.
> 
> As have others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wanna explain why one of the lead detectives said Zimmerman should have been arrested?
Click to expand...


I've heard that rumor sevaral times, yet no one can verify it. I think it's bull shit.


----------



## The Infidel

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  The witness who says that is in the police report.  Their name is blacked out, and that was a good choice.
> 
> So, that witness has already made a statement to the cops.
> 
> As have others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna explain why one of the lead detectives said Zimmerman should have been arrested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No senior "detective" said any such thing in the police report.
> 
> Is there another police report where someone says that?
> 
> It's not in this one.
Click to expand...



I just dont get it.... the usual suspects are ALWAYS taking the wrong side.

WHY???

How hard is it to left the facts support themselves?

We should be embarrassed as a nation!


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> No senior "detective" said any such thing in the police report.
> 
> Is there another police report where someone says that?
> 
> It's not in this one.



Serino. Nothing of the sort was said in the police report that's been released, but also note that it says 'partial' report. After it was leaked that Serino wanted to charge manslaughter, at least one article reported the police said they were cracking down on those within who were leaking info to the press. 

This is the first I've heard that Zimmerman led them through a re-enactment of the shooting. 


CBS News  reports that the next day, detectives re-enacted the shooting with  Zimmerman at the scene. They also discovered Zimmerman had two prior  arrests: one for assaulting a cop, the other for domestic abuse.
 For the next two weeks, lead investigator Serino pursued a manslaughter charge against Zimmerman.


What happened right after Trayvon Martin's shooting? - CBS News


----------



## SFC Ollie

People, people, people. This incident was not racially motivated..........

Use your heads and stop listening to those who want it to be racial......

And I don't have to name them, we all know who they are.........


----------



## ABikerSailor

You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.

Guess what?  No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.

And even more shocking?  No broken nose.

Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Trayvon Martin: - Orlando Sentinel


----------



## koshergrl

ABikerSailor said:


> You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.
> 
> Guess what? No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.
> 
> And even more shocking? No broken nose.
> 
> Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.


 
HE WASN'T BOOKED you fucking idiot.

He was interviewed.


----------



## Peach

ABikerSailor said:


> You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.
> 
> Guess what?  No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.
> 
> And even more shocking?  No broken nose.
> 
> Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.



I doubt it, evidence stale, witnesses vary. Zimmerman is a great guy to some..........the victim, a "hoodlum" "casing" the neighborhood, Skittles & tea in hand.................


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.
> 
> Guess what?  No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.
> 
> And even more shocking?  No broken nose.
> 
> Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.


As Zimmerman wasn't arrested, what was he "booked" for?


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Trayvon Martin: - Orlando Sentinel


That makes sense, since he was treated at the scene by paramedics for his injuries.


----------



## ABikerSailor

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.
> 
> Guess what? No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.
> 
> And even more shocking? No broken nose.
> 
> Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HE WASN'T BOOKED you fucking idiot.
> 
> He was interviewed.
Click to expand...


Hey stupid...........you don't wear chrome bracelets when you're just being interviewed.

He was brought in by a police car to the garage, let out (still in cuffs), and then the cops checked him out, and then moved him to another office.  They showed him going into the office, still in cuffs, still no blood.

If you've ever been arrested, you'd know that he was booked.


----------



## SFC Ollie

video shot by a security camera

From the link provided.........

Now how far away was this camera and what quality was it to tell the condition of a guy who already had some first aid. And did it show his face and the back of his head? The link provided does not show the video.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin: - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> That makes sense, since he was treated at the scene by paramedics for his injuries.
Click to expand...


If there was as much damage as you claim, then why the hell are there no bandages?  Matter of fact, in some of them you can see his face quite clearly.

Know what one of the signs is that you've had your nose broke?  You get black eyes almost immediately.

No black eye either.


----------



## Peach

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin: - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> That makes sense, since he was treated at the scene by paramedics for his injuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If there was as much damage as you claim, then why the hell are there no bandages?  Matter of fact, in some of them you can see his face quite clearly.
> 
> Know what one of the signs is that you've had your nose broke?  You get black eyes almost immediately.
> 
> No black eye either.
Click to expand...


The Miami Herald has a story yesterday claiming Sanford police did request charges; Wolfinger declined:

Sanford cops wanted to charge Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case - 03/27/2012 | MiamiHerald.com


----------



## SFC Ollie

Found the video, it is very inconclusive as I expected.......

Why is it all the normal suspects want the police to be the bad guys........?????????


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon Martin: - Orlando Sentinel
> 
> 
> 
> That makes sense, since he was treated at the scene by paramedics for his injuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If there was as much damage as you claim, then why the hell are there no bandages?  Matter of fact, in some of them you can see his face quite clearly.
> 
> Know what one of the signs is that you've had your nose broke?  You get black eyes almost immediately.
> 
> No black eye either.
Click to expand...

How much damage do you think I claim?

I'm pretty sure the ONLY claim I have made is that he had head injuries and was treated at the scene by paramedics for them.

And the reason I claim that is because that is what is in the cop report.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.
> 
> Guess what?  No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.
> 
> And even more shocking?  No broken nose.
> 
> Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.
> 
> 
> 
> As Zimmerman wasn't arrested, what was he "booked" for?
Click to expand...


Technically, he was arrested/under custody.

I just watched the video, and looked at a still of him standing with his back to the camera. It would be difficult to determine there were no bruises, but you can see there isn't a laceration (at least not a significant one). He may have had a small laceration or abrasion; bleeding from a scalp injury can be pretty impressive, even from small wounds. 

I don't believe the police report lied that there was blood on the back of his head, it would have been washed off by the paramedics when they evaluated him at the scene. The news report also says police said paramedics did not recommend that Zimmerman go to the hospital. In any case, he didn't appear as someone who'd just had the snot beat out of them.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That makes sense, since he was treated at the scene by paramedics for his injuries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there was as much damage as you claim, then why the hell are there no bandages?  Matter of fact, in some of them you can see his face quite clearly.
> 
> Know what one of the signs is that you've had your nose broke?  You get black eyes almost immediately.
> 
> No black eye either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much damage do you think I claim?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the ONLY claim I have made is that he had head injuries and was treated at the scene by paramedics for them.
> 
> And the reason I claim that is because that is what is in the cop report.
Click to expand...


Interestingly enough, there was no bandage on his nose for a broken nose (as some claim), nor is there scrapes or bandages on the back of his head either, and some have stated that he was badly enough injured to warrant stiches.

But..........keep defending him, the video just shown on the news is pretty damning.

And, if you can't find it yet, just wait until tomorrow's news.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there was as much damage as you claim, then why the hell are there no bandages?  Matter of fact, in some of them you can see his face quite clearly.
> 
> Know what one of the signs is that you've had your nose broke?  You get black eyes almost immediately.
> 
> No black eye either.
> 
> 
> 
> How much damage do you think I claim?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the ONLY claim I have made is that he had head injuries and was treated at the scene by paramedics for them.
> 
> And the reason I claim that is because that is what is in the cop report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there was no bandage on his nose for a broken nose (as some claim), nor is there scrapes or bandages on the back of his head either, and some have stated that he was badly enough injured to warrant stiches.
> 
> But..........keep defending him, the video just shown on the news is pretty damning.
> 
> And, if you can't find it yet, just wait until tomorrow's news.
Click to expand...

What the fuck?

Defending him?

I'm defending the PROCESS.


Kneejerk.  Tsk, tsk, tsk.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there was as much damage as you claim, then why the hell are there no bandages?  Matter of fact, in some of them you can see his face quite clearly.
> 
> Know what one of the signs is that you've had your nose broke?  You get black eyes almost immediately.
> 
> No black eye either.
> 
> 
> 
> How much damage do you think I claim?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the ONLY claim I have made is that he had head injuries and was treated at the scene by paramedics for them.
> 
> And the reason I claim that is because that is what is in the cop report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there was no bandage on his nose for a broken nose (as some claim), nor is there scrapes or bandages on the back of his head either, and some have stated that he was badly enough injured to warrant stiches.
> 
> But..........keep defending him, the video just shown on the news is pretty damning.
> 
> And, if you can't find it yet, just wait until tomorrow's news.
Click to expand...

Can you link to the video....I haven't seen it. I've only seen his 2005 mugshot.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much damage do you think I claim?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the ONLY claim I have made is that he had head injuries and was treated at the scene by paramedics for them.
> 
> And the reason I claim that is because that is what is in the cop report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there was no bandage on his nose for a broken nose (as some claim), nor is there scrapes or bandages on the back of his head either, and some have stated that he was badly enough injured to warrant stiches.
> 
> But..........keep defending him, the video just shown on the news is pretty damning.
> 
> And, if you can't find it yet, just wait until tomorrow's news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you link to the video....I haven't seen it. I've only seen his 2005 mugshot.
Click to expand...


Here ya go..................

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News


----------



## Emma

If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.


----------



## The Gadfly

SFC Ollie said:


> Found the video, it is very inconclusive as I expected.......
> 
> Why is it all the normal suspects want the police to be the bad guys........?????????



I did notice something else in that video, rather poor quality though it is. Zimmerman's height has been consistently given as 5' 9". Assuming that's correct, the description of Zimmerman as a 220-240 lb. hulk that been constantly tossed out as fact  here is *completely inaccurate*. He appears to be of medium build; at that height, I'd guess his actual weight is somewhere in the 160-180 range; hardly the GREAT disparity in size and strength we've been led to believe. I wonder if the resident lynch mob would like to explain THAT, while they are into demanding explanations of supposed "discrepancies"? I'm kind of sick of the silly "gotcha" games that have been played out in the media, in the streets, and here (I think my IQ has dropped twenty points just from reading the absurdities on BOTH sides) but if some people here still want to play that way...back at ya!


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there was no bandage on his nose for a broken nose (as some claim), nor is there scrapes or bandages on the back of his head either, and some have stated that he was badly enough injured to warrant stiches.
> 
> But..........keep defending him, the video just shown on the news is pretty damning.
> 
> And, if you can't find it yet, just wait until tomorrow's news.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you link to the video....I haven't seen it. I've only seen his 2005 mugshot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here ya go..................
> 
> George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News
Click to expand...

Yeah, thanks, I found it.


----------



## Peach

Emma said:


> If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.



If the Miami Herald is correct, the Sanford PD may be OFF THE HOOK:

Sanford cops wanted to charge Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case - 03/27/2012 | MiamiHerald.com


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.



Was this what you were expecting?


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found the video, it is very inconclusive as I expected.......
> 
> Why is it all the normal suspects want the police to be the bad guys........?????????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did notice something else in that video, rather poor quality though it is. Zimmerman's height has been consistently given as 5' 9". Assuming that's correct, the description of Zimmerman as a 220-240 lb. hulk that been constantly tossed out as fact  here is *completely inaccurate*. He appears to be of medium build; at that height, I'd guess his actual weight is somewhere in the 160-180 range; hardly the GREAT disparity in size and strength we've been led to believe. I wonder if the resident lynch mob would like to explain THAT, while they are into demanding explanations of supposed "discrepancies"? I'm kind of sick of the silly "gotcha" games that have been played out in the media, in the streets, and here (I think my IQ has dropped twenty points just from reading the absurdities on BOTH sides) but if some people here still want to play that way...back at ya!
Click to expand...



The video is significant, the network said, because it appears to show that the muscular-looking Zimmerman is uninjured.

There is also no obvious trace of grass stains on his shirt or other clothing, as his attorney and an initial police report indicated. The stains could indicate Trayvon had the upper hand during their struggle, Zimmermans attorney said.

The surveillance video shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser at a station wearing black jeans, a gray t-shirt and a red shirt with black shoulder patches. His clothing appears fresh.

As he exits the police cruiser in a covered parking lot, the network said his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is seen being frisked by one of three officers accompanying him and then he is lead inside the station and down a series of hallways.

Read more here: Surveillance video shows George Zimmerman from the night he killed Trayvon Martin - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was this what you were expecting?
Click to expand...


Don't be silly. 

You were a cop? IF the paramedics recommended he be evaluated at the hospital, would the police have been required to take him? IF they did, and Zimmerman refused, would he had to have signed a waiver refusing further evaluation or treatment? This case aside, I'd think police would have to do one or the other for liability issues.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was this what you were expecting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be silly.
> 
> You were a cop? IF the paramedics recommended he be evaluated at the hospital, would the police have been required to take him? IF they did, and Zimmerman refused, would he had to have signed a waiver refusing further evaluation or treatment? This case aside, I'd think police would have to do one or the other for liability issues.
Click to expand...


If he needed life threatening medical attention he would have went straight to the hospital. However a broken nose is not life threatening. A cut to the head is not life threatening.


----------



## Emma

That at least partially answers some questions I had about the extent of Zimmerman's head injury. 

A couple of weeks ago, we had a patient die who had sustained a scalp laceration over a (relatively) minor skull fracture (from a fall). The laceration and fracture alone weren't life threatening, but the laceration became infected with a particularly nasty bug and it invaded the brain through the fracture. I just don't see SFD not taking him in for further eval/treatment if the injury was of any significance.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> If he needed life threatening medical attention he would have went straight to the hospital. However a broken nose is not life threatening. A cut to the head is not life threatening.


Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?


----------



## Ravi

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found the video, it is very inconclusive as I expected.......
> 
> Why is it all the normal suspects want the police to be the bad guys........?????????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did notice something else in that video, rather poor quality though it is. Zimmerman's height has been consistently given as 5' 9". Assuming that's correct, the description of Zimmerman as a 220-240 lb. hulk that been constantly tossed out as fact  here is *completely inaccurate*. He appears to be of medium build; at that height, I'd guess his actual weight is somewhere in the 160-180 range; hardly the GREAT disparity in size and strength we've been led to believe. I wonder if the resident lynch mob would like to explain THAT, while they are into demanding explanations of supposed "discrepancies"? I'm kind of sick of the silly "gotcha" games that have been played out in the media, in the streets, and here (I think my IQ has dropped twenty points just from reading the absurdities on BOTH sides) but if some people here still want to play that way...back at ya!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The video is significant, the network said, because it appears to show that the muscular-looking Zimmerman is uninjured.
> 
> There is also no obvious trace of grass stains on his shirt or other clothing, as his attorney and an initial police report indicated. The stains could indicate Trayvon had the upper hand during their struggle, Zimmermans attorney said.
> 
> The surveillance video shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser at a station wearing black jeans, a gray t-shirt and a red shirt with black shoulder patches. His clothing appears fresh.
> 
> As he exits the police cruiser in a covered parking lot, the network said his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is seen being frisked by one of three officers accompanying him and then he is lead inside the station and down a series of hallways.
> 
> Read more here: Surveillance video shows George Zimmerman from the night he killed Trayvon Martin - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com
Click to expand...

Dude doesn't have any noticeable injuries.

Sad.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he needed life threatening medical attention he would have went straight to the hospital. However a broken nose is not life threatening. A cut to the head is not life threatening.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?
Click to expand...

I don't know about Florida, but in Virginia (and in Maryland), if the paramedics want to transport you to a hospital and you refuse, you do have to sign a waiver.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he needed life threatening medical attention he would have went straight to the hospital. However a broken nose is not life threatening. A cut to the head is not life threatening.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about Florida, but in Virginia (and in Maryland), if the paramedics want to transport you to a hospital and you refuse, you do have to sign a waiver.
Click to expand...


I know they do here (not sure about the police). It's a liability issue. They don't want someone coming back claiming an injury that was denied treatment.


----------



## Zander

Why bother with a trial? Congressional race hustlers have already convicted Zimmerman....


----------



## Ravi

Zander said:


> Why bother with a trial? Congressional race hustlers have already convicted Zimmerman....



Oh, yeah, there's always that. Don't be an idiot.


----------



## SFC Ollie

I have this strange tendency to believe the police............


----------



## The Gadfly

Emma said:


> If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.



Emma, in my experience that would depend on the injury. My guess on declining transport is that would go on the EMS (FD in this case), call report, not on the police report. On a minor laceration, I'd probably have done just a quick pad and gauze wrap, unless the patient declined transport, in which case I'd clean it up better, and if it did not appear to require suturing, probably just apply an appropriate adhesive bandage (or liquid bandage). Don't know if either would have been apparent on the video. I don't know about the cervical collar (depending on evaluation), but I WOULD definitely have advised transport to the ED simply based on the potential of a closed head injury. I would also have given the PD a checklist for head injury, and advised they transport him to ED immediately if he showed any signs while he was with them. The PD and FD may have been more casual with this than I'm used to, (I think they were), but I've seen worse.


----------



## The Gadfly

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he needed life threatening medical attention he would have went straight to the hospital. However a broken nose is not life threatening. A cut to the head is not life threatening.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about Florida, but in Virginia (and in Maryland), if the paramedics want to transport you to a hospital and you refuse, you do have to sign a waiver.
Click to expand...


Yeah, we'd require that here in SC as well; it's on the EMS/FD call form (or used to be).


----------



## The Gadfly

Ravi said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why bother with a trial? Congressional race hustlers have already convicted Zimmerman....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, there's always that. Don't be an idiot.
Click to expand...


STILL think he weighs 220-240, Ravi?


----------



## Emma

The Gadfly said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma, in my experience that would depend on the injury. My guess on declining transport is that would go on the EMS (FD in this case), call report, not on the police report. On a minor laceration, I'd probably have done just a quick pad and gauze wrap, unless the patient declined transport, in which case I'd clean it up better, and if it did not appear to require suturing, probably just apply an appropriate adhesive bandage (or liquid bandage). Don't know if either would have been apparent on the video. I don't know about the cervical collar (depending on evaluation), but I WOULD definitely have advised transport to the ED simply based on the potential of a closed head injury. I would also have given the PD a checklist for head injury, and advised they transport him to ED immediately if he showed any signs while he was with them. The PD and FD may have been more casual with this than I'm used to, (I think they were), but I've seen worse.
Click to expand...

Thanks. 

I mentioned the collar because of the hit to the front of the head and the way he must have fallen. Though around here, I think they get a little collar-happy sometimes.


----------



## The Gadfly

Emma said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the head wound was as bad as some here have claimed, I would have expected to see a bandage. I also would have expected the paramedics to have recommended he go to the hospital. This article says police have said they didn't do so; I have no idea where that came from or if it's true. The EMTs/Paramedics I've known are exceedingly cautious. If Martin's attack on Zimmerman was as brutal as some claim, I would think we could have seen at least some indication of it in the video. (he probably would have had a cervical collar on as well) Also, since Zimmerman WAS in custody, wouldn't he had to have been transported to the ED if medics recommended that he be taken to the hospital? That's a huge liability issue for both SPD and SFD. I don't remember seeing in the police report that Zimmerman declined to be taken to the ED, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma, in my experience that would depend on the injury. My guess on declining transport is that would go on the EMS (FD in this case), call report, not on the police report. On a minor laceration, I'd probably have done just a quick pad and gauze wrap, unless the patient declined transport, in which case I'd clean it up better, and if it did not appear to require suturing, probably just apply an appropriate adhesive bandage (or liquid bandage). Don't know if either would have been apparent on the video. I don't know about the cervical collar (depending on evaluation), but I WOULD definitely have advised transport to the ED simply based on the potential of a closed head injury. I would also have given the PD a checklist for head injury, and advised they transport him to ED immediately if he showed any signs while he was with them. The PD and FD may have been more casual with this than I'm used to, (I think they were), but I've seen worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I mentioned the collar because of the hit to the front of the head and the way he must have fallen. Though around here, I think they get a little collar-happy sometimes.
Click to expand...

Yeah; some do go a little overboard with those. I always liked to be judicious in using a collar, because the ones we had at the time were uncomfortable for the patient, AND required considerable care in application in order to not do more harm than good. I've seen more recent designs that are far better, in both respects.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Dude doesn't have any noticeable injuries.
> 
> Sad.



a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News


pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i      ....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video


----------



## bodecea

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude doesn't have any noticeable injuries.
> 
> Sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall
> 
> George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News
> 
> 
> pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i      ....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video
Click to expand...


I think you need to repeat that a few more times.


----------



## koshergrl

Ravi said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found the video, it is very inconclusive as I expected.......
> 
> Why is it all the normal suspects want the police to be the bad guys........?????????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did notice something else in that video, rather poor quality though it is. Zimmerman's height has been consistently given as 5' 9". Assuming that's correct, the description of Zimmerman as a 220-240 lb. hulk that been constantly tossed out as fact here is *completely inaccurate*. He appears to be of medium build; at that height, I'd guess his actual weight is somewhere in the 160-180 range; hardly the GREAT disparity in size and strength we've been led to believe. I wonder if the resident lynch mob would like to explain THAT, while they are into demanding explanations of supposed "discrepancies"? I'm kind of sick of the silly "gotcha" games that have been played out in the media, in the streets, and here (I think my IQ has dropped twenty points just from reading the absurdities on BOTH sides) but if some people here still want to play that way...back at ya!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The video is significant, the network said, because it appears to show that the muscular-looking Zimmerman is uninjured.
> 
> There is also no obvious trace of grass stains on his shirt or other clothing, as his attorney and an initial police report indicated. The stains could indicate Trayvon had the upper hand during their struggle, Zimmermans attorney said.
> 
> The surveillance video shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser at a station wearing black jeans, a gray t-shirt and a red shirt with black shoulder patches. His clothing appears fresh.
> 
> As he exits the police cruiser in a covered parking lot, the network said his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is seen being frisked by one of three officers accompanying him and then he is lead inside the station and down a series of hallways.
> 
> Read more here: Surveillance video shows George Zimmerman from the night he killed Trayvon Martin - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com
Click to expand...

 

Muscular looking?

Tell me, Ravi...what muscles can you see? 

The only skin I see is the top of his head. He's wearing a coat and loose jeans...he looks to be maybe 160 lbs. Maybe. 

What muscles look buff to you? 

What a load of crap. I can't even tell if it's him or not. No wonder this guy is hiding. You racist mob ppl are fucking nuts.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he needed life threatening medical attention he would have went straight to the hospital. However a broken nose is not life threatening. A cut to the head is not life threatening.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?
Click to expand...


It depends on the departments policy about transporting people in custody. I have had to ride in the back of the ambulance with someone who require medical attention and who was in custody. As for refusal in this case it does not matter if he refused if he needed medical attention he would go.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Ravi said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why bother with a trial? Congressional race hustlers have already convicted Zimmerman....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, there's always that. Don't be an idiot.
Click to expand...


He isnt being an idiot. You, as usual, are being the idiot, but then again, its not like you have any choice.

The press has tried Zimmerman and found him guilty of a racist murder, no matter what the evidence is. And libtards like you are reduced to saying the most stupid things, like his wounds werent noticable, implying that being punched/kicked in the head repeatedly is not a valid cause to feel your life is in danger. 

After all, you see no gain to it, so Zimmerman has to die.

Stupid liar.


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude doesn't have any noticeable injuries.
> 
> Sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall
> 
> George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News
> 
> 
> pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i      ....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
Click to expand...


Why? He has his shit together, unlike most here.


----------



## koshergrl

The Gadfly said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why bother with a trial? Congressional race hustlers have already convicted Zimmerman....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, there's always that. Don't be an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> STILL think he weighs 220-240, Ravi?
Click to expand...

 
She's switched from humongous 220-240 monster to "muscular". Be's "buff".


----------



## bigrebnc1775

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall
> 
> George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News
> 
> 
> pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i      ....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? He has his shit together, unlike most here.
Click to expand...

It looked like he has some abrasions on the front of his face and his nose looked like it was swollen , But it's hard to tell. Hey lynch mob you just had to be there.


----------



## KissMy

It does not matter what kind of show the prosecution performs in front of a jury acting out how martin was lured into a murder trap by a racist killer named Zimmerman who chased down & struck Martin first. The case should not go to trial because a jury will never convict Zimmerman. Trying this case & losing will prevent Zimmerman from ever being convicted later even if a clearly detailed video surfaced of the entire incident showing Zimmerman was clearly at fault. Because Zimmerman can't be tried for the same crime twice due to the "Double Jeopardy Law."

There were only 2 eye witnesses who could clearly see & hear who was on top doing the beating & who was on the bottom being beaten while screaming "HELP". These witnesses are un-bias & do not know either of the men who were fighting.

First eye witness (adult male John) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.

Second eye witness (black kid walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is also recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within days.

Clearly recorded on 911 tape is a man screaming for help about 20 times so loud it is recorded from inside a home prior to the gunshot.

Police & EMT report confirm injuries on Zimmerman indicating he was struck at least twice.

Zimmerman does not have to testify at the trial.

All the defense attorney has to say is put yourself in Zimmerman's place. You are on your back screaming for help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone on 911 tape inside a home about 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat you as you indicated loud & clearly many times you had given up & were begging for help. Would you wait until you had enough damage to your body to show that you had enough?  Would you wait until you had enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to put on a good show before you use your gun? Would you wait to use your gun until you had lost your eyesight from a finger to your eye or a punch that would make you unable to see Martin to shoot him?

It does not matter if half on the jury truly believe Zimmerman could have put up enough of a fight & survived long enough for the police to arrive. At least half of the jury will think I don't want to take a beating until I count enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to make a good photo and risk losing sight or consciousness thus my ability to shoot my attacker.

It takes all 12 jurors to convict. In cases like this Zimmerman is going to walk free every single time.


----------



## Ravi

bodecea said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude doesn't have any noticeable injuries.
> 
> Sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall
> 
> George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News
> 
> 
> pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i      ....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
Click to expand...

Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.
> 
> Guess what?  No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.
> 
> And even more shocking?  No broken nose.
> 
> Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.
> 
> 
> 
> As Zimmerman wasn't arrested, what was he "booked" for?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, he was arrested/under custody.
> 
> I just watched the video, and looked at a still of him standing with his back to the camera. It would be difficult to determine there were no bruises, but you can see there isn't a laceration (at least not a significant one). He may have had a small laceration or abrasion; bleeding from a scalp injury can be pretty impressive, even from small wounds.
> 
> I don't believe the police report lied that there was blood on the back of his head, it would have been washed off by the paramedics when they evaluated him at the scene. The news report also says police said paramedics did not recommend that Zimmerman go to the hospital. In any case, he didn't appear as someone who'd just had the snot beat out of them.
Click to expand...

Right.  And, I was wondering about the 'stitches' claim, too.  I'm thinking paramedics don't do stitches.


----------



## Sallow

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Zimmerman wasn't arrested, what was he "booked" for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, he was arrested/under custody.
> 
> I just watched the video, and looked at a still of him standing with his back to the camera. It would be difficult to determine there were no bruises, but you can see there isn't a laceration (at least not a significant one). He may have had a small laceration or abrasion; bleeding from a scalp injury can be pretty impressive, even from small wounds.
> 
> I don't believe the police report lied that there was blood on the back of his head, it would have been washed off by the paramedics when they evaluated him at the scene. The news report also says police said paramedics did not recommend that Zimmerman go to the hospital. In any case, he didn't appear as someone who'd just had the snot beat out of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right.  And, I was wondering about the 'stitches' claim, too.  I'm thinking paramedics don't do stitches.
Click to expand...


Do they do "Band-aids"?


----------



## Katzndogz

ABikerSailor said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know............ABC News just released the video of Zimmerman being booked into the police station on the night of the shooting.
> 
> Guess what? No blood on the back of his head, no grass on the back of his shirt either.
> 
> And even more shocking? No broken nose.
> 
> Nope, sorry, this fucker and the cops who covered for him are all gonna fry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HE WASN'T BOOKED you fucking idiot.
> 
> He was interviewed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid...........you don't wear chrome bracelets when you're just being interviewed.
> 
> He was brought in by a police car to the garage, let out (still in cuffs), and then the cops checked him out, and then moved him to another office.  They showed him going into the office, still in cuffs, still no blood.
> 
> If you've ever been arrested, you'd know that he was booked.
Click to expand...


If someone is in the back of a police car they are handcuffed.  He wasn't arrested nor booked.  If he was arrested, the police report would say so, and say that he was informed of his rights.


----------



## Sallow

KissMy said:


> It does not matter what kind of show the prosecution performs in front of a jury acting out how martin was lured into a murder trap by a racist killer named Zimmerman who chased down & struck Martin first. The case should not go to trial because a jury will never convict Zimmerman. Trying this case & losing will prevent Zimmerman from ever being convicted later even if a clearly detailed video surfaced of the entire incident showing Zimmerman was clearly at fault. Because Zimmerman can't be tried for the same crime twice due to the "Double Jeopardy Law."
> 
> There were only 2 eye witnesses who could clearly see & hear who was on top doing the beating & who was on the bottom being beaten while screaming "HELP". These witnesses are un-bias & do not know either of the men who were fighting.
> 
> First eye witness (adult male John) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.
> 
> Second eye witness (black kid walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is also recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within days.
> 
> Clearly recorded on 911 tape is a man screaming for help about 20 times so loud it is recorded from inside a home prior to the gunshot.
> 
> Police & EMT report confirm injuries on Zimmerman indicating he was struck at least twice.
> 
> Zimmerman does not have to testify at the trial.
> 
> All the defense attorney has to say is put yourself in Zimmerman's place. You are on your back screaming for help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone on 911 tape inside a home about 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat you as you indicated loud & clearly many times you had given up & were begging for help. Would you wait until you had enough damage to your body to show that you had enough?  Would you wait until you had enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to put on a good show before you use your gun? Would you wait to use your gun until you had lost your eyesight from a finger to your eye or a punch that would make you unable to see Martin to shoot him?
> 
> It does not matter if half on the jury truly believe Zimmerman could have put up enough of a fight & survived long enough for the police to arrive. At least half of the jury will think I don't want to take a beating until I count enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to make a good photo and risk losing sight or consciousness thus my ability to shoot my attacker.
> 
> It takes all 12 jurors to convict. In cases like this Zimmerman is going to walk free every single time.



Trayvon was such a bad ass..that in one minute (which his cell phone log, 911 log and police log confirm), he had time to attack Zimmerman from behind, which resulted in a "broken" nose (Neat trick), get him to the ground, bash his head against the cement and beat him so badly that in the very SAME minute..Zimmerman..while on the ground and getting his head pounded had the presence of mind to reach into his holster, pull out his automatic (which didn't have the safety on..and a round chambered), shoot Martin dead in the chest and NOT get any blood spatter from that. 

Almost super human..on both parts..I tell you what.


----------



## Sallow

JimBowie1958 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why bother with a trial? Congressional race hustlers have already convicted Zimmerman....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, there's always that. Don't be an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He isnt being an idiot. You, as usual, are being the idiot, but then again, its not like you have any choice.
> 
> The press has tried Zimmerman and found him guilty of a racist murder, no matter what the evidence is. And libtards like you are reduced to saying the most stupid things, like his wounds werent noticable, implying that being punched/kicked in the head repeatedly is not a valid cause to feel your life is in danger.
> 
> After all, you see no gain to it, so Zimmerman has to die.
> 
> Stupid liar.
Click to expand...



Zimmerman has right to remain silent. Anything he says or does can and will be held against him in a court of law. He has the right to speak to an attorney. If he cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for him.


----------



## Si modo

Katzndogz said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> HE WASN'T BOOKED you fucking idiot.
> 
> He was interviewed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid...........you don't wear chrome bracelets when you're just being interviewed.
> 
> He was brought in by a police car to the garage, let out (still in cuffs), and then the cops checked him out, and then moved him to another office.  They showed him going into the office, still in cuffs, still no blood.
> 
> If you've ever been arrested, you'd know that he was booked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If someone is in the back of a police car they are handcuffed.  He wasn't arrested nor booked.  If he was arrested, the police report would say so, and say that he was informed of his rights.
Click to expand...

I was arrested once (long story), but never booked.  And, I was really, really bummed that they didn't take a mug shot or my prints.  I spent some time freshening up my make-up just for that!


----------



## High_Gravity

Do you guys think the authorities are working just as hard on this case as we are?


----------



## paulitician

Time to ban Hoodies?


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter what kind of show the prosecution performs in front of a jury acting out how martin was lured into a murder trap by a racist killer named Zimmerman who chased down & struck Martin first. The case should not go to trial because a jury will never convict Zimmerman. Trying this case & losing will prevent Zimmerman from ever being convicted later even if a clearly detailed video surfaced of the entire incident showing Zimmerman was clearly at fault. Because Zimmerman can't be tried for the same crime twice due to the "Double Jeopardy Law."
> 
> There were only 2 eye witnesses who could clearly see & hear who was on top doing the beating & who was on the bottom being beaten while screaming "HELP". These witnesses are un-bias & do not know either of the men who were fighting.
> 
> First eye witness (adult male John) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.
> 
> Second eye witness (black kid walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is also recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within days.
> 
> Clearly recorded on 911 tape is a man screaming for help about 20 times so loud it is recorded from inside a home prior to the gunshot.
> 
> Police & EMT report confirm injuries on Zimmerman indicating he was struck at least twice.
> 
> Zimmerman does not have to testify at the trial.
> 
> All the defense attorney has to say is put yourself in Zimmerman's place. You are on your back screaming for help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone on 911 tape inside a home about 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat you as you indicated loud & clearly many times you had given up & were begging for help. Would you wait until you had enough damage to your body to show that you had enough?  Would you wait until you had enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to put on a good show before you use your gun? Would you wait to use your gun until you had lost your eyesight from a finger to your eye or a punch that would make you unable to see Martin to shoot him?
> 
> It does not matter if half on the jury truly believe Zimmerman could have put up enough of a fight & survived long enough for the police to arrive. At least half of the jury will think I don't want to take a beating until I count enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to make a good photo and risk losing sight or consciousness thus my ability to shoot my attacker.
> 
> It takes all 12 jurors to convict. In cases like this Zimmerman is going to walk free every single time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was such a bad ass..that in one minute (which his cell phone log, 911 log and police log confirm), he had time to attack Zimmerman from behind, which resulted in a "broken" nose (Neat trick), get him to the ground, bash his head against the cement and beat him so badly that in the very SAME minute..Zimmerman..while on the ground and getting his head pounded had the presence of mind to reach into his holster, pull out his automatic (which didn't have the safety on..and a round chambered), shoot Martin dead in the chest and NOT get any blood spatter from that.
> 
> Almost super human..on both parts..I tell you what.
Click to expand...


Trayvon was a professional kickboxer in Thailand for some years so that explains all that.


----------



## saveliberty

High_Gravity said:


> Do you guys think the authorities are working just as hard on this case as we are?



I just hope the authorities are working faster than the vigilantes.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he needed life threatening medical attention he would have went straight to the hospital. However a broken nose is not life threatening. A cut to the head is not life threatening.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It depends on the departments policy about transporting people in custody. I have had to ride in the back of the ambulance with someone who require medical attention and who was in custody. As for refusal in this case it does not matter if he refused if he needed medical attention he would go.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I know that people have the absolute right to decline care, but I don't know how that works when someone is in custody. I don't work ED ... I'd like to know how that's handled on our end. 

Reports indicate that EMS didn't think it necessary for Zimmerman to be taken to the hospital ... which seems rather odd to me considering he claims his head was repeatedly beaten against a sidewalk.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on the departments policy about transporting people in custody. I have had to ride in the back of the ambulance with someone who require medical attention and who was in custody. As for refusal in this case it does not matter if he refused if he needed medical attention he would go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks. I know that people have the absolute right to decline care, but I don't know how that works when someone is in custody. I don't work ED ... I'd like to know how that's handled on our end.
> 
> Reports indicate that EMS didn't think it necessary for Zimmerman to be taken to the hospital ... which seems rather odd to me considering he claims his head was repeatedly beaten against a sidewalk.
Click to expand...


They can't deny any medical treatment. There is no wavier to sign. I've rode in the back of an ambulance with a couple half crazed handcuffed prisoners, who didn't want treatment after they were involved in a fight.

I'll add one thing more as for head injuries I've knocked mine a few time  I was hit in the head with a ball bat once during a fight. The was no blood just a little swelling


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Zimmerman wasn't arrested, what was he "booked" for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, he was arrested/under custody.
> 
> I just watched the video, and looked at a still of him standing with his back to the camera. It would be difficult to determine there were no bruises, but you can see there isn't a laceration (at least not a significant one). He may have had a small laceration or abrasion; bleeding from a scalp injury can be pretty impressive, even from small wounds.
> 
> I don't believe the police report lied that there was blood on the back of his head, it would have been washed off by the paramedics when they evaluated him at the scene. The news report also says police said paramedics did not recommend that Zimmerman go to the hospital. In any case, he didn't appear as someone who'd just had the snot beat out of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right.  And, I was wondering about the 'stitches' claim, too.  I'm thinking paramedics don't do stitches.
Click to expand...


Gadfly mentioned liquid bandage, so that's a possibility. It wouldn't have been visible in the video. 

I saw the video on TV last night, and it was much clearer than what I viewed online. 

I _thought_ I saw a small area that could have been a laceration ... it was relatively very small, and I only saw one. The only reason why I would doubt that it was an injury is that it was higher up on the back of the head (almost at the top) than I'd expect given Zimmerman's account of how he injured the back of his head. It certainly didn't look like a "gash", as Zimmerman's attorney portrayed.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, he was arrested/under custody.
> 
> I just watched the video, and looked at a still of him standing with his back to the camera. It would be difficult to determine there were no bruises, but you can see there isn't a laceration (at least not a significant one). He may have had a small laceration or abrasion; bleeding from a scalp injury can be pretty impressive, even from small wounds.
> 
> I don't believe the police report lied that there was blood on the back of his head, it would have been washed off by the paramedics when they evaluated him at the scene. The news report also says police said paramedics did not recommend that Zimmerman go to the hospital. In any case, he didn't appear as someone who'd just had the snot beat out of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Right.  And, I was wondering about the 'stitches' claim, too.  I'm thinking paramedics don't do stitches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gadfly mentioned liquid bandage, so that's a possibility. It wouldn't have been visible in the video.
> 
> I saw the video on TV last night, and it was much clearer than what I viewed online.
> 
> I _thought_ I saw a small area that could have been a laceration ... it was relatively very small, and I only saw one. The only reason why I would doubt that it was an injury is that it was higher up on the back of the head (almost at the top) than I'd expect given Zimmerman's account of how he injured the back of his head. It certainly didn't look like a "gash", as Zimmerman's attorney portrayed.
Click to expand...

Yeah.  I'm thinking I saw something there, too.  But, if that is the only image available of Zimmerman that night, I wouldn't give it any weight one way or the other - it wouldn't confirm anything; it wouldn't rule out anything.  But, it DOES rule out any claims of "gashes".

I'm thinking cops take photos of crime scenes and parties to the incident, especially if any claims of violence are made.  Those should show more.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> I was arrested once (long story), but never booked.  And, I was really, really bummed that they didn't take a mug shot or my prints.  I spent some time freshening up my make-up just for that!





I did some travel nursing, and my last job was for the Feds. I was required to have an FBI background check and give a full set of fingerprints. They tried for over 30 minutes, but I just didn't leave a print. They finally took what they could get. In my current job, we use fingerprints to access the meds. Nine times out of ten, I can't get it to pick up my fingerprint; it takes forever. 

I should go break bad. They'd never find my prints


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on the departments policy about transporting people in custody. I have had to ride in the back of the ambulance with someone who require medical attention and who was in custody. As for refusal in this case it does not matter if he refused if he needed medical attention he would go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I know that people have the absolute right to decline care, but I don't know how that works when someone is in custody. I don't work ED ... I'd like to know how that's handled on our end.
> 
> Reports indicate that EMS didn't think it necessary for Zimmerman to be taken to the hospital ... which seems rather odd to me considering he claims his head was repeatedly beaten against a sidewalk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can't deny any medical treatment. There is no wavier to sign. I've rode in the back of an ambulance with a couple half crazed handcuffed prisoners, who didn't want treatment after they were involved in a fight.
> 
> I'll add one thing more as for head injuries I've knocked mine a few time  I was hit in the head with a ball bat once during a fight. The was no blood just a little swelling
Click to expand...


*ouch*

Zimmerman's attorney said there was a "gash" large enough to require sutures. I'm just not seeing that in the video. Scalp lacerations, even small ones, do bleed a lot, though.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Ravi said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall
> 
> George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News
> 
> 
> pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i      ....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.
Click to expand...


But it is quite true, I hadn't noticed it before but the officer is definitely examining the back of Zimmermans head.


----------



## Si modo

SFC Ollie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it is quite true, I hadn't noticed it before but the officer is definitely examining the back of Zimmermans head.
Click to expand...

Very true.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Yeah.  I'm thinking I saw something there, too.  But, if that is the only image available of Zimmerman that night, I wouldn't give it any weight one way or the other - it wouldn't confirm anything; it wouldn't rule out anything.  But, it DOES rule out any claims of "gashes".
> 
> I'm thinking cops take photos of crime scenes and parties to the incident, especially if any claims of violence are made.  Those should show more.



"Gash" ... I'm betting Zimmerman's attorney didn't expect that this video was going to be released (if he even realized it existed). 

Something was brought up during the time they were broadcasting the video that I have to agree with ... Zimmerman doesn't look like someone who had just been brutally beaten. He needs no help getting from the car, moves freely and his gait is smooth and steady.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was arrested once (long story), but never booked.  And, I was really, really bummed that they didn't take a mug shot or my prints.  I spent some time freshening up my make-up just for that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some travel nursing, and my last job was for the Feds. I was required to have an FBI background check and give a full set of fingerprints. They tried for over 30 minutes, but I just didn't leave a print. They finally took what they could get. In my current job, we use fingerprints to access the meds. Nine times out of ten, I can't get it to pick up my fingerprint; it takes forever.
> 
> I should go break bad. They'd never find my prints
Click to expand...

For my government work, they took electronic scans of both of my hands.  That's probably better than ink, I would think.

But, yeah.....if you break bad and decided that Tiffany's is a good target, ring me up, K?


----------



## Intense

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer my question. Forget about this case for a moment ... would police have to take a subject to the hospital if paramedics recommended it, or if the person refused further treatment, would they have to sign a waiver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on the departments policy about transporting people in custody. I have had to ride in the back of the ambulance with someone who require medical attention and who was in custody. As for refusal in this case it does not matter if he refused if he needed medical attention he would go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks. I know that people have the absolute right to decline care, but I don't know how that works when someone is in custody. I don't work ED ... I'd like to know how that's handled on our end.
> 
> Reports indicate that EMS didn't think it necessary for Zimmerman to be taken to the hospital ... which seems rather odd to me considering he claims his head was repeatedly beaten against a sidewalk.
Click to expand...


Agreed. Totally. He should have been checked out at the time. It was wrong not to, considering the circumstances. He was bloodied up though, there were People that can attest to that.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it is quite true, I hadn't noticed it before but the officer is definitely examining the back of Zimmermans head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very true.
Click to expand...


Maybe he's thinking "Gash??? What gash???" 

I don't think we can tell if Zimmerman's nose was injured, it doesn't appear to be but the video isn't close enough to say for sure. What I did notice is the right side of his mouth to the jaw looks a bit swollen. Was Trayvon left handed?


----------



## Intense

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was arrested once (long story), but never booked.  And, I was really, really bummed that they didn't take a mug shot or my prints.  I spent some time freshening up my make-up just for that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some travel nursing, and my last job was for the Feds. I was required to have an FBI background check and give a full set of fingerprints. They tried for over 30 minutes, but I just didn't leave a print. They finally took what they could get. In my current job, we use fingerprints to access the meds. Nine times out of ten, I can't get it to pick up my fingerprint; it takes forever.
> 
> I should go break bad. They'd never find my prints
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For my government work, they took electronic scans of both of my hands.  That's probably better than ink, I would think.
> 
> But, yeah.....if you break bad and decided that Tiffany's is a good target, ring me up, K?
Click to expand...


It's not as messy as ink.  Still ends up in the same places though.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  I'm thinking I saw something there, too.  But, if that is the only image available of Zimmerman that night, I wouldn't give it any weight one way or the other - it wouldn't confirm anything; it wouldn't rule out anything.  But, it DOES rule out any claims of "gashes".
> 
> I'm thinking cops take photos of crime scenes and parties to the incident, especially if any claims of violence are made.  Those should show more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Gash" ... I'm betting Zimmerman's attorney didn't expect that this video was going to be released (if he even realized it existed).
> 
> Something was brought up during the time they were broadcasting the video that I have to agree with ... Zimmerman doesn't look like someone who had just been brutally beaten. He needs no help getting from the car, moves freely and his gait is smooth and steady.
Click to expand...

Yeah, "battered" doesn't seem to fit.

Although, getting knocked in the head (sans concussion) would not affect gait, I would think.

See, that's what doesn't fit.  Almost anytime there is a head injury - knocked head and complaints of head pain - the EMTs want to transport.  I used to be very active in equestrian sports most of my life - lots of head knocks - and every time, the EMTs transported me.  I didn't want to go half of the times, but I also wasn't going to sign a waiver.  They always talked me into it.

But, the cops weren't involved, either.

Fishy.


----------



## Intense

Ravi said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall
> 
> George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News
> 
> 
> pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i      ....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.
Click to expand...


You seem stuck in Campaign Mode Ravi???  When I Clap my hands you will awaken. ......


----------



## SFC Ollie

How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was arrested once (long story), but never booked.  And, I was really, really bummed that they didn't take a mug shot or my prints.  I spent some time freshening up my make-up just for that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some travel nursing, and my last job was for the Feds. I was required to have an FBI background check and give a full set of fingerprints. They tried for over 30 minutes, but I just didn't leave a print. They finally took what they could get. In my current job, we use fingerprints to access the meds. Nine times out of ten, I can't get it to pick up my fingerprint; it takes forever.
> 
> I should go break bad. They'd never find my prints
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For my government work, they took electronic scans of both of my hands.  That's probably better than ink, I would think.
> 
> But, yeah.....if you break bad and decided that Tiffany's is a good target, ring me up, K?
Click to expand...


Sure! what size do you wear?

This was the laser/electronic fingerprint thingy. The agent who was trying to get a good set of prints started to act a little bitchy, like it was MY fault and then called in a couple of others who seemed to get just as frustrated. I should have told them I was an alien


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it is quite true, I hadn't noticed it before but the officer is definitely examining the back of Zimmermans head.
> 
> 
> 
> Very true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe he's thinking "Gash??? What gash???"
> 
> I don't think we can tell if Zimmerman's nose was injured, it doesn't appear to be but the video isn't close enough to say for sure. What I did notice is the right side of his mouth to the jaw looks a bit swollen. Was Trayvon left handed?
Click to expand...

Dunno.  At one point, I thought maybe there was a bandage on his nose, but that very easily could have been the lighting.

The video just isn't all that good, except I am convinced there is no "gash", unless the "gash" is only a half of a centimeter or less.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  I'm thinking I saw something there, too.  But, if that is the only image available of Zimmerman that night, I wouldn't give it any weight one way or the other - it wouldn't confirm anything; it wouldn't rule out anything.  But, it DOES rule out any claims of "gashes".
> 
> I'm thinking cops take photos of crime scenes and parties to the incident, especially if any claims of violence are made.  Those should show more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Gash" ... I'm betting Zimmerman's attorney didn't expect that this video was going to be released (if he even realized it existed).
> 
> Something was brought up during the time they were broadcasting the video that I have to agree with ... Zimmerman doesn't look like someone who had just been brutally beaten. He needs no help getting from the car, moves freely and his gait is smooth and steady.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, "battered" doesn't seem to fit.
> 
> Although, getting knocked in the head (sans concussion) would not affect gait, I would think.
> 
> See, that's what doesn't fit.  Almost anytime there is a head injury - knocked head and complaints of head pain - the EMTs want to transport.  I used to be very active in equestrian sports most of my life - lots of head knocks - and every time, the EMTs transported me.  I didn't want to go half of the times, but I also wasn't going to sign a waiver.  They always talked me into it.
> 
> But, the cops weren't involved, either.
> 
> Fishy.
Click to expand...

That's why I was questioning bigred ... I'm not sure where this falls with someone who is in their custody. Maybe Zimmerman signed a waiver. 

He most certainly would have had a concussion, it's just a matter of how severe.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some travel nursing, and my last job was for the Feds. I was required to have an FBI background check and give a full set of fingerprints. They tried for over 30 minutes, but I just didn't leave a print. They finally took what they could get. In my current job, we use fingerprints to access the meds. Nine times out of ten, I can't get it to pick up my fingerprint; it takes forever.
> 
> I should go break bad. They'd never find my prints
> 
> 
> 
> For my government work, they took electronic scans of both of my hands.  That's probably better than ink, I would think.
> 
> But, yeah.....if you break bad and decided that Tiffany's is a good target, ring me up, K?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure! what size do you wear?
> 
> This was the laser/electronic fingerprint thingy. The agent who was trying to get a good set of prints started to act a little bitchy, like it was MY fault and then called in a couple of others who seemed to get just as frustrated. I should have told them I was an alien
Click to expand...

7" tennis bracelet.    But, 8" is fine, too.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was arrested once (long story), but never booked.  And, I was really, really bummed that they didn't take a mug shot or my prints.  I spent some time freshening up my make-up just for that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did some travel nursing, and my last job was for the Feds. I was required to have an FBI background check and give a full set of fingerprints. They tried for over 30 minutes, but I just didn't leave a print. They finally took what they could get. In my current job, we use fingerprints to access the meds. Nine times out of ten, I can't get it to pick up my fingerprint; it takes forever.
> 
> I should go break bad. They'd never find my prints
Click to expand...

And, dammit....I was having a good hair day that day, too.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

SFC Ollie said:


> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......



at least.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> I used to be very active in equestrian sports most of my life.



I immediately thought of this 

[youtube]zMxz54YXwL8[/youtube]

Did your sister date Lewis?


----------



## Ravi

SFC Ollie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it is quite true, I hadn't noticed it before but the officer is definitely examining the back of Zimmermans head.
Click to expand...

Yes he is, and somehow that "proves" to dante that there is something there to see.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Intense said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to repeat that a few more times.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem stuck in Campaign Mode Ravi???  When I Clap my hands you will awaken. ......
Click to expand...

she'll only awake after the 2012 election and wonder what happen.  then proceed to the corner and hold her breath and stomp her feet, because she didn't get her way in the election.


----------



## Emma

SFC Ollie said:


> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......


Police report doesn't give a time that I saw; just that he was transported after being cleared by EMS. 

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> Police report doesn't give a time that I saw; just that he was transported after being cleared by EMS.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
Click to expand...


They will give a time of arrival to the seine and when they got to the department.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used to be very active in equestrian sports most of my life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I immediately thought of this
> 
> [youtube]zMxz54YXwL8[/youtube]
> 
> Did your sister date Lewis?
Click to expand...

  I've never seen that.  Funny!


----------



## Intense

The Time should also show on Surveillance Video.


----------



## Sallow

SFC Ollie said:


> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......



And?

Which would mean..that the swelling and black eyes caused by a broken nose would be more pronounced..as with the gash to the back of the head.

Did he also get his laundry done on the way? His shirt has no blood splatters from either the broken nose..or the shot he fired into Trayvon's chest.


----------



## Si modo

Sallow said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> Which would mean..that the swelling and black eyes caused by a broken nose would be more pronounced..as with the gash to the back of the head.
> 
> Did he also get his laundry done on the way? His shirt has no blood splatters from either the broken nose..or the shot he fired into Trayvon's chest.
Click to expand...

When I broke my nose, my eyes weren't black nor did it bleed.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I know that people have the absolute right to decline care, but I don't know how that works when someone is in custody. I don't work ED ... I'd like to know how that's handled on our end.
> 
> Reports indicate that EMS didn't think it necessary for Zimmerman to be taken to the hospital ... which seems rather odd to me considering he claims his head was repeatedly beaten against a sidewalk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can't deny any medical treatment. There is no wavier to sign. I've rode in the back of an ambulance with a couple half crazed handcuffed prisoners, who didn't want treatment after they were involved in a fight.
> 
> I'll add one thing more as for head injuries I've knocked mine a few time  I was hit in the head with a ball bat once during a fight. The was no blood just a little swelling
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *ouch*
> 
> Zimmerman's attorney said there was a "gash" large enough to require sutures. I'm just not seeing that in the video. Scalp lacerations, even small ones, do bleed a lot, though.
Click to expand...


In the video you can see the young police officer looking at the back of his head.


----------



## Ravi

Sallow said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> Which would mean..that the swelling and black eyes caused by a broken nose would be more pronounced..as with the gash to the back of the head.
> 
> Did he also get his laundry done on the way? His shirt has no blood splatters from either the broken nose..or the shot he fired into Trayvon's chest.
Click to expand...


Maybe the cops let him put steaks on his eyes to make the swelling to away on the ride to the station. And maybe he's wearing a wig, a skin wig on his head to hide the GASH. And maybe he's wearing a false nose to disguise himself.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least.
Click to expand...

I saw where police arrived within a minute of the shooting; they were dispatched at 1917. At 1930, paramedics pronounced Martin dead. It would have been after that point they'd have attended to Zimmerman.


----------



## saveliberty

I feel much better about the whole thing now that key evidence does seem to have been preserved and the FBI is assisting.  We are just going to have a long wait.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> Police report doesn't give a time that I saw; just that he was transported after being cleared by EMS.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They will give a time of arrival to the seine and when they got to the department.
Click to expand...

I don't see it in the report, but then again that's labeled as a "partial report".


----------



## Sallow

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> Which would mean..that the swelling and black eyes caused by a broken nose would be more pronounced..as with the gash to the back of the head.
> 
> Did he also get his laundry done on the way? His shirt has no blood splatters from either the broken nose..or the shot he fired into Trayvon's chest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I broke my nose, my eyes weren't black nor did it bleed.
Click to expand...


The police report said he was bleeding from the nose. I had my nose broke some time ago..and I had 2 black eyes for several weeks and massive swelling. I looked like Jimmy Durante.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-ldVj34Sfo]September Song Jimmy Durante 1955 - YouTube[/ame]

How'd you break it?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Police report doesn't give a time that I saw; just that he was transported after being cleared by EMS.
> 
> http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will give a time of arrival to the seine and when they got to the department.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see it in the report, but then again that's labeled as a "partial report".
Click to expand...


Didn't you post some report of crime in that area for a year? It had a time stamp on those reports if I am not mistaken.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw where police arrived within a minute of the shooting; they were dispatched at 1917. At 1930, paramedics pronounced Martin dead. It would have been after that point they'd have attended to Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


There you have your time however paramedics are not going to pronounce him dead it's not their job to do that.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will give a time of arrival to the seine and when they got to the department.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see it in the report, but then again that's labeled as a "partial report".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't you post some report of crime in that area for a year? It had a time stamp on those reports if I am not mistaken.
Click to expand...



Aha. I know what you're talking about. Hang on ...


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> at least.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw where police arrived within a minute of the shooting; they were dispatched at 1917. At 1930, paramedics pronounced Martin dead. It would have been after that point they'd have attended to Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There you have your time however paramedics are not going to pronounce him dead it's not their job to do that.
Click to expand...


they can do that in the field, given specific criteria (at least here, and apparently in Florida too)


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will give a time of arrival to the seine and when they got to the department.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see it in the report, but then again that's labeled as a "partial report".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't you post some report of crime in that area for a year? It had a time stamp on those reports if I am not mistaken.
Click to expand...

The partial cop report says they arrived on the scene at 19:17 on 2/26/2012.  I don't recall their saying what time they got back to the cop station with Zimmerman, though.  At the time the report was entered (03:07 on 2/27/2012), Zimmerman was already gone/released, they report.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw where police arrived within a minute of the shooting; they were dispatched at 1917. At 1930, paramedics pronounced Martin dead. It would have been after that point they'd have attended to Zimmerman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you have your time however paramedics are not going to pronounce him dead it's not their job to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they can do that in the field, given specific criteria (at least here, and apparently in Florida too)
Click to expand...


Interesting find

The man's family says if paramedics had taken him to the hospital right away, he could still be alive.70-year-old Leroy Tarver collapsed on the floor of his Fort Myers home with chest pains a few weeks ago.His family called 9-1-1 and EMS came to help.
70-year-old man declared dead for a second time

Maybe the EMT's should have proceeded to the hospital  with trayvon he might be alive today.
Anyway a few states must allow that to take place. EMT aren't trained doctors and should not be allowed to make that determination. They should proceed as fast as possible to the hospital.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you have your time however paramedics are not going to pronounce him dead it's not their job to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they can do that in the field, given specific criteria (at least here, and apparently in Florida too)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting find
> 
> The man's family says if paramedics had taken him to the hospital right away, he could still be alive.70-year-old Leroy Tarver collapsed on the floor of his Fort Myers home with chest pains a few weeks ago.His family called 9-1-1 and EMS came to help.
> 70-year-old man declared dead for a second time
> 
> Maybe the EMT's should have proceeded to the hospital  with trayvon he might be alive today.
Click to expand...

Had a patient pronounced dead by a doctor 3 times before she finally DID die. 

I found the link I think you were talking about, but it only goes up to 1920: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf


----------



## Emma

Here, they have to have evidence of lividity ... certain lethal injuries (like decapitation) and ... I forget what else. I don't think they could have just called it like your example (I'd like to know if the doc they were in contact with told them to call it, however). 

 I helped a paramedic with CPR at an accident I'd witnessed, and it was obvious it was not going to work. With my first compression, blood spurted from her nose and mouth and ears. He still had to take her to the ED to be pronounced.


----------



## KissMy

Sallow said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter what kind of show the prosecution performs in front of a jury acting out how martin was lured into a murder trap by a racist killer named Zimmerman who chased down & struck Martin first. The case should not go to trial because a jury will never convict Zimmerman. Trying this case & losing will prevent Zimmerman from ever being convicted later even if a clearly detailed video surfaced of the entire incident showing Zimmerman was clearly at fault. Because Zimmerman can't be tried for the same crime twice due to the "Double Jeopardy Law."
> 
> There were only 2 eye witnesses who could clearly see & hear who was on top doing the beating & who was on the bottom being beaten while screaming "HELP". These witnesses are un-bias & do not know either of the men who were fighting.
> 
> First eye witness (adult male John) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.
> 
> Second eye witness (black kid walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is also recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within days.
> 
> Clearly recorded on 911 tape is a man screaming for help about 20 times so loud it is recorded from inside a home prior to the gunshot.
> 
> Police & EMT report confirm injuries on Zimmerman indicating he was struck at least twice.
> 
> Zimmerman does not have to testify at the trial.
> 
> All the defense attorney has to say is put yourself in Zimmerman's place. You are on your back screaming for help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone on 911 tape inside a home about 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat you as you indicated loud & clearly many times you had given up & were begging for help. Would you wait until you had enough damage to your body to show that you had enough?  Would you wait until you had enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to put on a good show before you use your gun? Would you wait to use your gun until you had lost your eyesight from a finger to your eye or a punch that would make you unable to see Martin to shoot him?
> 
> It does not matter if half on the jury truly believe Zimmerman could have put up enough of a fight & survived long enough for the police to arrive. At least half of the jury will think I don't want to take a beating until I count enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to make a good photo and risk losing sight or consciousness thus my ability to shoot my attacker.
> 
> It takes all 12 jurors to convict. In cases like this Zimmerman is going to walk free every single time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was such a bad ass..that in one minute (which his cell phone log, 911 log and police log confirm), he had time to attack Zimmerman from behind, which resulted in a "broken" nose (Neat trick), get him to the ground, bash his head against the cement and beat him so badly that in the very SAME minute..Zimmerman..while on the ground and getting his head pounded had the presence of mind to reach into his holster, pull out his automatic (which didn't have the safety on..and a round chambered), shoot Martin dead in the chest and NOT get any blood spatter from that.
> 
> Almost super human..on both parts..I tell you what.
Click to expand...


One day Zimmerman may get drunk & be recorded telling someone just how he murdered that fucking no limit ****** in a hoodie. If the DA does not charge Zimmerman now they can convict him on that later. If the DA tries him now & loses, Zimmerman can stand on the street corner with a megaphone & shout that to the world & never be convicted for it.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Ravi said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if he repeats it often enough it will magically become true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it is quite true, I hadn't noticed it before but the officer is definitely examining the back of Zimmermans head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes he is, and somehow that "proves" to dante that there is something there to see.
Click to expand...


According to the police report there was.........

But to those who want the police to be liars there was no reason for this officer to look at the back of his head like that....


----------



## koshergrl

Sallow said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> Which would mean..that the swelling and black eyes caused by a broken nose would be more pronounced..as with the gash to the back of the head.
> 
> Did he also get his laundry done on the way? His shirt has no blood splatters from either the broken nose..or the shot he fired into Trayvon's chest.
Click to expand...

 
They took his clothes as EVIDENCE.

That's another lie that's being propagated by the lynch mob...that clothing wasn't taken for evidence. It was.
And the police report states that he was bloodied.


----------



## koshergrl

KissMy said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter what kind of show the prosecution performs in front of a jury acting out how martin was lured into a murder trap by a racist killer named Zimmerman who chased down & struck Martin first. The case should not go to trial because a jury will never convict Zimmerman. Trying this case & losing will prevent Zimmerman from ever being convicted later even if a clearly detailed video surfaced of the entire incident showing Zimmerman was clearly at fault. Because Zimmerman can't be tried for the same crime twice due to the "Double Jeopardy Law."
> 
> There were only 2 eye witnesses who could clearly see & hear who was on top doing the beating & who was on the bottom being beaten while screaming "HELP". These witnesses are un-bias & do not know either of the men who were fighting.
> 
> First eye witness (adult male John) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.
> 
> Second eye witness (black kid walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is also recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within days.
> 
> Clearly recorded on 911 tape is a man screaming for help about 20 times so loud it is recorded from inside a home prior to the gunshot.
> 
> Police & EMT report confirm injuries on Zimmerman indicating he was struck at least twice.
> 
> Zimmerman does not have to testify at the trial.
> 
> All the defense attorney has to say is put yourself in Zimmerman's place. You are on your back screaming for help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone on 911 tape inside a home about 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat you as you indicated loud & clearly many times you had given up & were begging for help. Would you wait until you had enough damage to your body to show that you had enough? Would you wait until you had enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to put on a good show before you use your gun? Would you wait to use your gun until you had lost your eyesight from a finger to your eye or a punch that would make you unable to see Martin to shoot him?
> 
> It does not matter if half on the jury truly believe Zimmerman could have put up enough of a fight & survived long enough for the police to arrive. At least half of the jury will think I don't want to take a beating until I count enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to make a good photo and risk losing sight or consciousness thus my ability to shoot my attacker.
> 
> It takes all 12 jurors to convict. In cases like this Zimmerman is going to walk free every single time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was such a bad ass..that in one minute (which his cell phone log, 911 log and police log confirm), he had time to attack Zimmerman from behind, which resulted in a "broken" nose (Neat trick), get him to the ground, bash his head against the cement and beat him so badly that in the very SAME minute..Zimmerman..while on the ground and getting his head pounded had the presence of mind to reach into his holster, pull out his automatic (which didn't have the safety on..and a round chambered), shoot Martin dead in the chest and NOT get any blood spatter from that.
> 
> Almost super human..on both parts..I tell you what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One day Zimmerman may get drunk & be recorded telling someone just how he murdered that fucking no limit ****** in a hoodie. If the DA does not charge Zimmerman now they can convict him on that later. If the DA tries him now & loses, Zimmerman can stand on the street corner with a megaphone & shout that to the world & never be convicted for it.
Click to expand...

 
Hysterical mobs don't give a shit about due process, or the justice system.

They just want to hang someone. Fast.


----------



## Si modo

KissMy said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter what kind of show the prosecution performs in front of a jury acting out how martin was lured into a murder trap by a racist killer named Zimmerman who chased down & struck Martin first. The case should not go to trial because a jury will never convict Zimmerman. Trying this case & losing will prevent Zimmerman from ever being convicted later even if a clearly detailed video surfaced of the entire incident showing Zimmerman was clearly at fault. Because Zimmerman can't be tried for the same crime twice due to the "Double Jeopardy Law."
> 
> There were only 2 eye witnesses who could clearly see & hear who was on top doing the beating & who was on the bottom being beaten while screaming "HELP". These witnesses are un-bias & do not know either of the men who were fighting.
> 
> First eye witness (adult male John) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.
> 
> Second eye witness (black kid walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is also recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within days.
> 
> Clearly recorded on 911 tape is a man screaming for help about 20 times so loud it is recorded from inside a home prior to the gunshot.
> 
> Police & EMT report confirm injuries on Zimmerman indicating he was struck at least twice.
> 
> Zimmerman does not have to testify at the trial.
> 
> All the defense attorney has to say is put yourself in Zimmerman's place. You are on your back screaming for help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone on 911 tape inside a home about 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat you as you indicated loud & clearly many times you had given up & were begging for help. Would you wait until you had enough damage to your body to show that you had enough?  Would you wait until you had enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to put on a good show before you use your gun? Would you wait to use your gun until you had lost your eyesight from a finger to your eye or a punch that would make you unable to see Martin to shoot him?
> 
> It does not matter if half on the jury truly believe Zimmerman could have put up enough of a fight & survived long enough for the police to arrive. At least half of the jury will think I don't want to take a beating until I count enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to make a good photo and risk losing sight or consciousness thus my ability to shoot my attacker.
> 
> It takes all 12 jurors to convict. In cases like this Zimmerman is going to walk free every single time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was such a bad ass..that in one minute (which his cell phone log, 911 log and police log confirm), he had time to attack Zimmerman from behind, which resulted in a "broken" nose (Neat trick), get him to the ground, bash his head against the cement and beat him so badly that in the very SAME minute..Zimmerman..while on the ground and getting his head pounded had the presence of mind to reach into his holster, pull out his automatic (which didn't have the safety on..and a round chambered), shoot Martin dead in the chest and NOT get any blood spatter from that.
> 
> Almost super human..on both parts..I tell you what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One day Zimmerman may get drunk & be recorded telling someone just how he murdered that fucking no limit ****** in a hoodie. If the DA does not charge Zimmerman now they can convict him on that later. If the DA tries him now & loses, Zimmerman can stand on the street corner with a megaphone & shout that to the world & never be convicted for it.
Click to expand...

Yup.  All the more reason for DAs to be sure they can make a case.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> Here, they have to have evidence of lividity ... certain lethal injuries (like decapitation) and ... I forget what else. I don't think they could have just called it like your example (I'd like to know if the doc they were in contact with told them to call it, however).
> 
> I helped a paramedic with CPR at an accident I'd witnessed, and it was obvious it was not going to work. With my first compression, blood spurted from her nose and mouth and ears. He still had to take her to the ED to be pronounced.



I've never known a doctor that would have a EMT call the death while in route to the hospital I don't think a gun shot wound would work.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

KissMy said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter what kind of show the prosecution performs in front of a jury acting out how martin was lured into a murder trap by a racist killer named Zimmerman who chased down & struck Martin first. The case should not go to trial because a jury will never convict Zimmerman. Trying this case & losing will prevent Zimmerman from ever being convicted later even if a clearly detailed video surfaced of the entire incident showing Zimmerman was clearly at fault. Because Zimmerman can't be tried for the same crime twice due to the "Double Jeopardy Law."
> 
> There were only 2 eye witnesses who could clearly see & hear who was on top doing the beating & who was on the bottom being beaten while screaming "HELP". These witnesses are un-bias & do not know either of the men who were fighting.
> 
> First eye witness (adult male John) saw Martin on top of & beating Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within hours.
> 
> Second eye witness (black kid walking dog) saw Martin on top of Zimmerman as Zimmerman yelled "HELP". This is also recorded on 911 tape & news crew interviewed this witness on tape within days.
> 
> Clearly recorded on 911 tape is a man screaming for help about 20 times so loud it is recorded from inside a home prior to the gunshot.
> 
> Police & EMT report confirm injuries on Zimmerman indicating he was struck at least twice.
> 
> Zimmerman does not have to testify at the trial.
> 
> All the defense attorney has to say is put yourself in Zimmerman's place. You are on your back screaming for help so loud it could clearly be heard over the phone on 911 tape inside a home about 20 times while being beaten by Martin. Martin continued to beat you as you indicated loud & clearly many times you had given up & were begging for help. Would you wait until you had enough damage to your body to show that you had enough?  Would you wait until you had enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to put on a good show before you use your gun? Would you wait to use your gun until you had lost your eyesight from a finger to your eye or a punch that would make you unable to see Martin to shoot him?
> 
> It does not matter if half on the jury truly believe Zimmerman could have put up enough of a fight & survived long enough for the police to arrive. At least half of the jury will think I don't want to take a beating until I count enough busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, busted eyeball, broken nose & busted open head in order to make a good photo and risk losing sight or consciousness thus my ability to shoot my attacker.
> 
> It takes all 12 jurors to convict. In cases like this Zimmerman is going to walk free every single time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was such a bad ass..that in one minute (which his cell phone log, 911 log and police log confirm), he had time to attack Zimmerman from behind, which resulted in a "broken" nose (Neat trick), get him to the ground, bash his head against the cement and beat him so badly that in the very SAME minute..Zimmerman..while on the ground and getting his head pounded had the presence of mind to reach into his holster, pull out his automatic (which didn't have the safety on..and a round chambered), shoot Martin dead in the chest and NOT get any blood spatter from that.
> 
> Almost super human..on both parts..I tell you what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One day Zimmerman may get drunk & be recorded telling someone just how he murdered that fucking no limit ****** in a hoodie. If the DA does not charge Zimmerman now they can convict him on that later. If the DA tries him now & loses, Zimmerman can stand on the street corner with a megaphone & shout that to the world & never be convicted for it.
Click to expand...


Yep


----------



## uptownlivin90

Sallow said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> Which would mean..that the swelling and black eyes caused by a broken nose would be more pronounced..as with the gash to the back of the head.
> 
> Did he also get his laundry done on the way? His shirt has no blood splatters from either the broken nose..or the shot he fired into Trayvon's chest.
Click to expand...


I look at this, and clearly, to me the injuries are consistent with the police report, and the various information given to the media by the Sanford PD. 

The Sanford PD never allege Zimmerman was beaten half to death, as some people on this board have alleged. They just said the guy had blood coming out of the back of his head and some blood on his face. 

The broken nose was never actually confirmed. It was "leaked" out to the media by someone that Zimmerman alleges that his nose was broken. A broke nose isn't that serious of an injury depending on the force that broke it.

The head "bashing into the cement" was a leak from that same source I believe. The leak says Zimmerman told police that his head was being bashed into the cement. I believe I read somewhere that police have confirmed that this is what Zimmerman said. However there are no witnesses who have come forward to the public that saw anyone's head being "bashed into cement" or "beaten into the sidewalk". 

The 13-year-old boy that saw the actual fight while in progress never saw this happen according to his mother. 

The video doesn't suggest that that happened either. 

The injuries recorded in the police report seem minor and don't suggest that that happened either.

So I think the police report is probably pretty factual, and the police did their job on the scene that night.

The video doesn't conflict with the cops, they had it right this whole time, it conflicts with idiot pundits and bloggers online that tried to paint a picture of a merciless beating of a defenseless Zimmerman that they have no evidence ever happened.


----------



## Dante

oh well, deaf dumb and blind some people

a little over half way through the video (50 seconds in), a police officer takes a look at the back of Zimmerman's head  .. looking at something on Zimmerman's head. then he asks him to stand back against the wall

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News


pay attention people. stop being so R-a-v-i   .....looks like a spot or two on back of head. fuzzy video

and

poor Ravi

even NPR has a Bloomberg news reporter agreeing with Dante. Dante's first observation was of officer looking at back of head. Police report says injury there. case made

NPR reporter says Zimmerman's jacket looks wet on back -- in the video.


----------



## Si modo

uptownlivin90 said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long after the shooting did they get to the station? My bet is it's at least an hour or more after the shooting.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> Which would mean..that the swelling and black eyes caused by a broken nose would be more pronounced..as with the gash to the back of the head.
> 
> Did he also get his laundry done on the way? His shirt has no blood splatters from either the broken nose..or the shot he fired into Trayvon's chest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I look at this, and clearly, to me the injuries are consistent with the police report, and the various information given to the media by the Sanford PD.
> 
> The Sanford PD never allege Zimmerman was beaten half to death, as some people on this board have alleged. They just said the guy had blood coming out of the back of his head and some blood on his face.
> 
> The broken nose was never actually confirmed. It was "leaked" out to the media by someone that Zimmerman alleges that his nose was broken. A broke nose isn't that serious of an injury depending on the force that broke it.
> 
> The head "bashing into the cement" was a leak from that same source I believe. The leak says Zimmerman told police that his head was being bashed into the cement. I believe I read somewhere that police have confirmed that this is what Zimmerman said. However there are no witnesses who have come forward to the public that saw anyone's head being "bashed into cement" or "beaten into the sidewalk".
> 
> The 13-year-old boy that saw the actual fight while in progress never saw this happen according to his mother.
> 
> The video doesn't suggest that that happened either.
> 
> The injuries recorded in the police report seem minor and don't suggest that that happened either.
> 
> So I think the police report is probably pretty factual, and the police did their job on the scene that night.
> 
> The video doesn't conflict with the cops, they had it right this whole time, it conflicts with idiot pundits and bloggers online that tried to paint a picture of a merciless beating of a defenseless Zimmerman that they have no evidence ever happened.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Too many folks trust the press and they should not.

Maybe that is some good that will come from this, because it is soooooo obvious in this topic.


----------



## uptownlivin90

bigrebnc1775 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon was such a bad ass..that in one minute (which his cell phone log, 911 log and police log confirm), he had time to attack Zimmerman from behind, which resulted in a "broken" nose (Neat trick), get him to the ground, bash his head against the cement and beat him so badly that in the very SAME minute..Zimmerman..while on the ground and getting his head pounded had the presence of mind to reach into his holster, pull out his automatic (which didn't have the safety on..and a round chambered), shoot Martin dead in the chest and NOT get any blood spatter from that.
> 
> Almost super human..on both parts..I tell you what.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One day Zimmerman may get drunk & be recorded telling someone just how he murdered that fucking no limit ****** in a hoodie. If the DA does not charge Zimmerman now they can convict him on that later. If the DA tries him now & loses, Zimmerman can stand on the street corner with a megaphone & shout that to the world & never be convicted for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep
Click to expand...


Nobody should jump to charge this man with anything. I'm starting to believe more and more personally that Zimmy wasn't acting in self-defense, but we have to be honest and say there's not a lot of evidence. There very well never be. We don't know who approached who, who threw the first punch, etc. We might not ever know... I'm glad though I live in a justice system where we can't throw someone in prison when there's still even a shadow of doubt.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> One day Zimmerman may get drunk & be recorded telling someone just how he murdered that fucking no limit ****** in a hoodie. If the DA does not charge Zimmerman now they can convict him on that later. If the DA tries him now & loses, Zimmerman can stand on the street corner with a megaphone & shout that to the world & never be convicted for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody should jump to charge this man with anything. I'm starting to believe more and more personally that Zimmy wasn't acting in self-defense, but we have to be honest and say there's not a lot of evidence. There very well never be. We don't know who approached who, who threw the first punch, etc. We might not ever know... I'm glad though I live in a justice system where we can't throw someone in prison when there's still even a shadow of doubt.
Click to expand...


The evidence that has been submitted is all we keyboard lawyers have to go on. I'm sure all the evidence has not been released. But what has been released is not enough to convict.
The only way zimmerman could be convicted is if he had his firearm out before the fight started, there was no reason for him to pull his firearm, up until Trayvon went after him hitting him. If it can be proven that zimmerman did that, then Trayvon would be defending himself  instead of the other way around.


----------



## koshergrl

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVMZs4X90Q&feature=player_embedded]Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube



The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it


----------



## KissMy

bigrebnc1775 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
Click to expand...


That boy is an "Uncle Tom" "House ******" who just wanted to be on TV.


----------



## Barb

bigrebnc1775 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
Click to expand...


So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful. 

Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place. 

WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?


----------



## koshergrl

We think due process is necessary prior to conviction. Sue us. Now grab your torch and grab a few friends...that kid is probably still at his old address, maybe you can get him before he does any more damage...


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> The evidence that has been submitted is all we keyboard lawyers have to go on. I'm sure all the evidence has not been released. But what has been released is not enough to convict.
> The only way zimmerman could be convicted is if he had his firearm out before the fight started, there was no reason for him to pull his firearm, up until Trayvon went after him hitting him. If it can be proven that zimmerman did that, then Trayvon would be defending himself  instead of the other way around.



Fear is a reason to have his gun out before hand, so is murderous intent.  Again, both are next to impossible to prove at this point.  The evidence will have to speak for itself.  One side or the other is going to have to accept something they can't at the moment.  Time may help with that too.


----------



## Ravi

A red tshirt, huh? How sad that the little boy's parents let him go on TV like that.


----------



## Si modo

Ravi said:


> A red tshirt, huh? How sad that the little boy's parents let him go on TV like that.


In retrospect, I bet they wish he had never been on the tube, now.

But, maybe they didn't know until after the fact.


----------



## KissMy

Barb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful.
> 
> Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place.
> 
> WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?
Click to expand...


Your basing all of your assumptions on a bias hearsay phone call. Logical people know the first hand eye witness accounts & 911 tapes evidence trumps everything else. No way can you convince 12 people on a jury your story is true beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If you are asking if I think that Zimmerman may have been able to stay alive defending himself against the attacker? I think he probably could. If you ask if I can beyond a shadow of a doubt think Martin could not get Zimmerman's gun away from him, poke out his eyes or knock him out before the cops arrived? I would have to say NO!


----------



## Katzndogz

I had a friend that had a seizure rendering him catatonic.  I was able to get him to an emergency room but there was nothing they could do.  He was to be transferred to a psych hospital.   I could not sign anything to get him admitted to the hospital for care.  There was no one else so the police resolved it by taking him into custody on a 5150 HS.  He was transported by ambulance but in police custody so he was handcuffed.   He was completely unresponsive, handcuffed because anyone under transport in police custody is transported in handcuffs.


----------



## Barb

koshergrl said:


> We think due process is necessary prior to conviction. Sue us. Now grab your torch and grab a few friends...that kid is probably still at his old address, maybe you can get him before he does any more damage...



that is the same kid who put out the you tube vid explaining that HE fit the same description as Trayvon, and how UNSAFE he feels now. 

You truly are a graceless cow. Congratulations.


----------



## Si modo

Barb said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> We think due process is necessary prior to conviction. Sue us. Now grab your torch and grab a few friends...that kid is probably still at his old address, maybe you can get him before he does any more damage...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is the same kid who put out the you tube vid explaining that HE fit the same description as Trayvon, and how UNSAFE he feels now.
> 
> You truly are a graceless cow. Congratulations.
Click to expand...

Actually, if I were a witness who made a statement to the cops about the shooting, and based on the mob-mentality of so many, I would be concerned for my safety.


----------



## Barb

KissMy said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful.
> 
> Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place.
> 
> WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your basing all of your assumptions on a bias hearsay phone call. Logical people know the first hand eye witness accounts & 911 tapes evidence trumps everything else. No way can you convince 12 people on a jury your story is true beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Click to expand...


"All?" The preponderance of evidence made public so far is in my "opinions" favor.


----------



## Si modo

Barb said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful.
> 
> Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place.
> 
> WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your basing all of your assumptions on a bias hearsay phone call. Logical people know the first hand eye witness accounts & 911 tapes evidence trumps everything else. No way can you convince 12 people on a jury your story is true beyond a shadow of a doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "All?" The preponderance of evidence made public so far is in my "opinions" favor.
Click to expand...

I think it was Madison who said the mob is rarely correct, thus the need for the process.


----------



## Katzndogz

What doesn't make a lot of sense is this.

Trayvon was staying with his father, visiting his Dad's girlfriend.   He wasn't exactly familar with this complex.   If he was walking along and felt threatened within the complex why call the girlfriend?   Wouldn't it make more sense to call his Dad and say "Some yahoo is followiing me, come out here and tell him who I am."  

I can see calling the girlfriend to say "There's this mexican guy on my ass, I'm going to fuck him up good."   Not calling the girlfriend to say "Someone is following me and I feel threatened."


----------



## Barb

Si modo said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> We think due process is necessary prior to conviction. Sue us. Now grab your torch and grab a few friends...that kid is probably still at his old address, maybe you can get him before he does any more damage...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is the same kid who put out the you tube vid explaining that HE fit the same description as Trayvon, and how UNSAFE he feels now.
> 
> You truly are a graceless cow. Congratulations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, if I were a witness who made a statement to the cops about the shooting, and based on the mob-mentality of so many, I would be concerned for my safety.
Click to expand...


"mob mentality" is the same sort of attempted misdirection that "lynching" is. Congratulations.


----------



## koshergrl

Congratulations yourself, racist.


----------



## saveliberty

KissMy said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That boy is an "Uncle Tom" "House ******" who just wanted to be on TV.
Click to expand...


You had to go there didn't you?


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> We think due process is necessary prior to conviction. Sue us. Now grab your torch and grab a few friends...that kid is probably still at his old address, maybe you can get him before he does any more damage...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is the same kid who put out the you tube vid explaining that HE fit the same description as Trayvon, and how UNSAFE he feels now.
> 
> You truly are a graceless cow. Congratulations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, if I were a witness who made a statement to the cops about the shooting, and based on the mob-mentality of so many, I would be concerned for my safety.
Click to expand...


Yeah....he's also concerned that he fits the stereotype of the kid that got shot AND he feels bad that he didn't go over to help. 

It's just sad all around for this kid, imo. I don't think posters should link to his "testimony" as proof of anything because his "testimony" is very neutral.


----------



## KissMy

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> A red tshirt, huh? How sad that the little boy's parents let him go on TV like that.
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, I bet they wish he had never been on the tube, now.
> 
> But, maybe they didn't know until after the fact.
Click to expand...


That is the boy who was on the 911 tapes that the police already released. His sister called 911 & the operator had her put him on the phone to get his statement recorded at the time of the shooting. He for the most part said the same thing on the 911 tape as he did in this video.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the same kid who put out the you tube vid explaining that HE fit the same description as Trayvon, and how UNSAFE he feels now.
> 
> You truly are a graceless cow. Congratulations.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, if I were a witness who made a statement to the cops about the shooting, and based on the mob-mentality of so many, I would be concerned for my safety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "mob mentality" is the same sort of attempted misdirection that "lynching" is. Congratulations.
Click to expand...


How dare you!


Without a mob mentality there would be...


no USMB!!!!    

​


----------



## koshergrl

Of course you don't.

It flies in the face of the version you're promoting. I can see why you'd have a problem with that.


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the same kid who put out the you tube vid explaining that HE fit the same description as Trayvon, and how UNSAFE he feels now.
> 
> You truly are a graceless cow. Congratulations.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, if I were a witness who made a statement to the cops about the shooting, and based on the mob-mentality of so many, I would be concerned for my safety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah....he's also concerned that he fits the stereotype of the kid that got shot AND he feels bad that he didn't go over to help.
> 
> It's just sad all around for this kid, imo. I don't think posters should link to his "testimony" as proof of anything because his "testimony" is very neutral.
Click to expand...


wow!  Ravi hates kids who rat out there own kind for telling the truth?

what a pitiful excuse for a mom she is. I suspect her run ins with the court system are many

neutral testimony? isn't that what we want?  Oh no, Ravi admits wanting biased testimony.

_baghed!!!_


----------



## Barb

Katzndogz said:


> What doesn't make a lot of sense is this.
> 
> Trayvon was staying with his father, visiting his Dad's girlfriend.   He wasn't exactly familar with this complex.   If he was walking along and felt threatened within the complex why call the girlfriend?   Wouldn't it make more sense to call his Dad and say "Some yahoo is followiing me, come out here and tell him who I am."
> 
> I can see calling the girlfriend to say "There's this mexican guy on my ass, I'm going to fuck him up good."   Not calling the girlfriend to say "Someone is following me and I feel threatened."



Our back door was kicked in while I was at work. My son called his sister, then her ex boyfriend (I worked a county away) after he had a gun to his head. He should have called the police first, but he never experienced anything like that, and on instinct wanted familiar people to respond. What is common knowledge to experienced adults is not so common to very young and inexperienced adults. Given what the police response WAS, I doubt he'd do it differently in the future.


----------



## Si modo

Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, if I were a witness who made a statement to the cops about the shooting, and based on the mob-mentality of so many, I would be concerned for my safety.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah....he's also concerned that he fits the stereotype of the kid that got shot AND he feels bad that he didn't go over to help.
> 
> It's just sad all around for this kid, imo. I don't think posters should link to his "testimony" as proof of anything because his "testimony" is very neutral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow!  Ravi hates kids who rat out there own kind for telling the truth?
> 
> what a pitiful excuse fora mom she is. I suspect her run ins with the court system are many
Click to expand...



Totally uncalled for.  Get a grip.


----------



## Barb

saveliberty said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That boy is an "Uncle Tom" "House ******" who just wanted to be on TV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You had to go there didn't you?
Click to expand...


He's a douchebag.


----------



## saveliberty

I have found the whole subject interesting from the perspective that I'm a conservative.  Because I don't immediately accept Mr. Zimmerman's story many conservatives have quickly attacked not only my position, but me personally.  If this was a clear cut case, they might have a point, but most have admitted we need to see the final report and let the legal process be completed.  EVERYONE is just stating an opinion at this point.


----------



## KissMy

Barb said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That boy is an "Uncle Tom" "House ******" who just wanted to be on TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had to go there didn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's a douchebag.
Click to expand...


What! - No sense of humor? Or are you just mad that you did not say it first?


----------



## Barb

Si modo said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your basing all of your assumptions on a bias hearsay phone call. Logical people know the first hand eye witness accounts & 911 tapes evidence trumps everything else. No way can you convince 12 people on a jury your story is true beyond a shadow of a doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "All?" The preponderance of evidence made public so far is in my "opinions" favor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it was Madison who said the mob is rarely correct, thus the need for the process.
Click to expand...


Most perps are in custody or under bond while the "process" plays out.  See the problem people have here?


----------



## koshergrl

Prove it, racist.


----------



## KissMy

Barb said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All?" The preponderance of evidence made public so far is in my "opinions" favor.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was Madison who said the mob is rarely correct, thus the need for the process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most perps are in custody or under bond while the "process" plays out.  See the problem people have here?
Click to expand...


Not when all the evidence says they did nothing wrong. Grabbing at straws is not a reason to keep someone in custody.


----------



## Si modo

Barb said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> "All?" The preponderance of evidence made public so far is in my "opinions" favor.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was Madison who said the mob is rarely correct, thus the need for the process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most perps are in custody or under bond while the "process" plays out.  See the problem people have here?
Click to expand...

Not really.  See, I find the law is a clusterfuck just waiting to happen, and it did.

So, although I find what Zimmerman did to be out of control, if that's the law and it is in Florida, then he should not be in custody.

Not everyone who is arrested is tried.

And, if the DA didn't have enough to try him, then the DA should not press charges just to lose - AND never to be able to try him again if something else comes up.


----------



## Ravi

Si modo said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah....he's also concerned that he fits the stereotype of the kid that got shot AND he feels bad that he didn't go over to help.
> 
> It's just sad all around for this kid, imo. I don't think posters should link to his "testimony" as proof of anything because his "testimony" is very neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!  Ravi hates kids who rat out there own kind for telling the truth?
> 
> what a pitiful excuse fora mom she is. I suspect her run ins with the court system are many
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally uncalled for.  Get a grip.
Click to expand...

He hasn't had a grip in years.


----------



## saveliberty

The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.



Innocent until proven guilty, It's not the defendant's case to prove that he is innocent it's the states case to prove that he is guilty.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Barb said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful.
> 
> Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place.
> 
> WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?
Click to expand...


I heard his girlfriend has changed her story, I don't know whats that's about nor do I care. But if Trayvon was in fear for his life why didn't he at least call his father. Why didn't he call 911 either those two would give some doubt to Zimmerman's case for self defense. But no he calls his girlfriend in another city.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty, It's not the defendant's case to prove that he is innocent it's the states case to prove that he is guilty.
Click to expand...


Absolutely bigreb, but my point was to charging someone with a crime.  Under past law, the shooter has to explain it was self defense and last resort.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The evidence that has been submitted is all we keyboard lawyers have to go on. I'm sure all the evidence has not been released. But what has been released is not enough to convict.
> The only way zimmerman could be convicted is if he had his firearm out before the fight started, there was no reason for him to pull his firearm, up until Trayvon went after him hitting him. If it can be proven that zimmerman did that, then Trayvon would be defending himself  instead of the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fear is a reason to have his gun out before hand, so is murderous intent.  Again, both are next to impossible to prove at this point.  The evidence will have to speak for itself.  One side or the other is going to have to accept something they can't at the moment.  Time may help with that too.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman having his firearm out before the fight has yet to be proven. Nor did any witness mention that in the statement.


----------



## Dante

Barb said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That boy is an "Uncle Tom" "House ******" who just wanted to be on TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had to go there didn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's a douchebag.
Click to expand...


takes one to know one...


----------



## Foxfyre

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty, It's not the defendant's case to prove that he is innocent it's the states case to prove that he is guilty.
Click to expand...


And, while the possibility of an illegal action is sufficient for the police to arrest and handcuff somebody, which they did in the case of Zimmerman, there has to be sufficient evidence of a crime to put somebody in jail.  In this case, the police obviously thought there was not sufficient evidence that Zimmerman committed an illegal act or that justified him being put in jail.  And there is no evidence of 'friendship' etc. being involved here.  In fact most police officers take a very skeptical view of and disapprove of neighborhood watch vigilantism and such as that.


----------



## Dante

Si modo said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah....he's also concerned that he fits the stereotype of the kid that got shot AND he feels bad that he didn't go over to help.
> 
> It's just sad all around for this kid, imo. I don't think posters should link to his "testimony" as proof of anything because his "testimony" is very neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow!  Ravi hates kids who rat out there own kind for telling the truth?
> 
> what a pitiful excuse fora mom she is. I suspect her run ins with the court system are many
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally uncalled for.  Get a grip.
Click to expand...


so you too support attacking 13 year old children for cheap points?


----------



## Dante

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow!  Ravi hates kids who rat out there own kind for telling the truth?
> 
> what a pitiful excuse fora mom she is. I suspect her run ins with the court system are many
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally uncalled for.  Get a grip.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He hasn't had a grip in years.
Click to expand...

Dante has always had a handle on your shit though, eh speck/quest/ravi?


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The evidence that has been submitted is all we keyboard lawyers have to go on. I'm sure all the evidence has not been released. But what has been released is not enough to convict.
> *The only way zimmerman could be convicted is if he had his firearm out before the fight started, there was no reason for him to pull his firearm, up until Trayvon went after him hitting him.*If it can be proven that zimmerman did that, then Trayvon would be defending himself  instead of the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fear is a reason to have his gun out before hand, so is murderous intent.  Again, both are next to impossible to prove at this point.  The evidence will have to speak for itself.  One side or the other is going to have to accept something they can't at the moment.  Time may help with that too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman having his firearm out before the fight has yet to be proven. Nor did any witness mention that in the statement.
Click to expand...


It was your "what if" bigreb.  I just answered your question.  Seriously the friendly fire here is amazing.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Barb said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful.
> 
> Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place.
> 
> WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your basing all of your assumptions on a bias hearsay phone call. Logical people know the first hand eye witness accounts & 911 tapes evidence trumps everything else. No way can you convince 12 people on a jury your story is true beyond a shadow of a doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "All?" The preponderance of evidence made public so far is in my "opinions" favor.
Click to expand...

Your opinion is based on emotion 
"Trayvon was such a good little boy"
"Trayvon wanted to fix or fly airplanes when he grew up"
"A black unarmed little boy with a can of tea and skeetles was shot and killed by a racist"
You are not using the evidence the Sanford PD has released. Not Guilty


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear is a reason to have his gun out before hand, so is murderous intent.  Again, both are next to impossible to prove at this point.  The evidence will have to speak for itself.  One side or the other is going to have to accept something they can't at the moment.  Time may help with that too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman having his firearm out before the fight has yet to be proven. Nor did any witness mention that in the statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was your "what if" bigreb.  I just answered your question.  Seriously the friendly fire here is amazing.
Click to expand...


True but it has yet to be proven one way or the other. Build a case on that and you will have a conviction.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty, It's not the defendant's case to prove that he is innocent it's the states case to prove that he is guilty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, while the possibility of an illegal action is sufficient for the police to arrest and handcuff somebody, which they did in the case of Zimmerman, there has to be sufficient evidence of a crime to put somebody in jail.  In this case, the police obviously thought there was not sufficient evidence that Zimmerman committed an illegal act or that justified him being put in jail.  And there is no evidence of 'friendship' etc. being involved here.  In fact most police officers take a very skeptical view of and disapprove of neighborhood watch vigilantism and such as that.
Click to expand...

I can't answer for Sanford PD but with the department I was with if you placed someone suspicious of a crime in the car you handcuffed them. I would suspect all departments are like that. They brought him to the police department to question him more, where they were better set up to do it. Camera's and away from the general public.


----------



## uptownlivin90

koshergrl said:


> Second witness confirms Trayvon was attacker - YouTube



The title of this video is completely misleading. Young Austin Brown never stated he saw anyone attack anyone. He said he saw a man on the ground. His mother later stated on MSNBC that her son never saw anyone "beating" on anyone. What he saw was limited and he of course never saw who started it unfortunately.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty, It's not the defendant's case to prove that he is innocent it's the states case to prove that he is guilty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, while the possibility of an illegal action is sufficient for the police to arrest and handcuff somebody, which they did in the case of Zimmerman, there has to be sufficient evidence of a crime to put somebody in jail.  In this case, the police obviously thought there was not sufficient evidence that Zimmerman committed an illegal act or that justified him being put in jail.  And there is no evidence of 'friendship' etc. being involved here.  In fact most police officers take a very skeptical view of and disapprove of neighborhood watch vigilantism and such as that.
Click to expand...


There are reports now coming out and witnesses saying that some of the cops actually were pretty skeptical. Including Austin Brown's mother who claimed on MSNBC that the cop that interviewed her son claimed he was convinced Zimmerman wasn't acting in self-defense. I think it probably was an issue where some of the cops may have been skeptical but the DA didn't want to press charges unless they had enough evidence. We'll see if more evidence comes out in the coming days...


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty, It's not the defendant's case to prove that he is innocent it's the states case to prove that he is guilty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, while the possibility of an illegal action is sufficient for the police to arrest and handcuff somebody, which they did in the case of Zimmerman, there has to be sufficient evidence of a crime to put somebody in jail.  In this case, the police obviously thought there was not sufficient evidence that Zimmerman committed an illegal act or that justified him being put in jail.  And there is no evidence of 'friendship' etc. being involved here.  In fact most police officers take a very skeptical view of and disapprove of neighborhood watch vigilantism and such as that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are reports now coming out and witnesses saying that some of the cops actually were pretty skeptical. Including Austin Brown's mother who claimed on MSNBC that the cop that interviewed her son claimed he was convinced Zimmerman wasn't acting in self-defense. I think it probably was an issue where some of the cops may have been skeptical but the DA didn't want to press charges unless they had enough evidence. We'll see if more evidence comes out in the coming days...
Click to expand...

Heresy is not generally admissible in court.


----------



## koshergrl

uptownlivin90 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty, It's not the defendant's case to prove that he is innocent it's the states case to prove that he is guilty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, while the possibility of an illegal action is sufficient for the police to arrest and handcuff somebody, which they did in the case of Zimmerman, there has to be sufficient evidence of a crime to put somebody in jail. In this case, the police obviously thought there was not sufficient evidence that Zimmerman committed an illegal act or that justified him being put in jail. And there is no evidence of 'friendship' etc. being involved here. In fact most police officers take a very skeptical view of and disapprove of neighborhood watch vigilantism and such as that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are reports now coming out and witnesses saying that some of the cops actually were pretty skeptical. Including Austin Brown's mother who claimed on MSNBC that the cop that interviewed her son claimed he was convinced Zimmerman wasn't acting in self-defense. I think it probably was an issue where some of the cops may have been skeptical but the DA didn't want to press charges unless they had enough evidence. We'll see if more evidence comes out in the coming days...
Click to expand...

 
Here we go, you're doing it again..

"The kid in the video's mom said the cop thought"...

That's like 3x removed from the last piece of evidence you have, which is the kid saying he saw Trayvon on top.

Stick to what you know for sure and let the cops sort it out.


----------



## GUNSIDEAUG

WHERE WAS THE NEWS MEDIA HERE ?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRqLVjOuSWQ&feature=related]Ireland - They did not show this on our news - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## bigrebnc1775

GUNSIDEAUG said:


> WHERE WAS THE NEWS MEDIA HERE ?
> 
> 
> Ireland - They did not show this on our news - YouTube



Did they get the chair for that?


----------



## ABikerSailor

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police threaten that little boy I am sure of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful.
> 
> Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place.
> 
> WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I heard his girlfriend has changed her story, I don't know whats that's about nor do I care. But if Trayvon was in fear for his life why didn't he at least call his father. Why didn't he call 911 either those two would give some doubt to Zimmerman's case for self defense. But no he calls his girlfriend in another city.
Click to expand...


Hey stupid........his girlfriend called HIM while he was walking around, and she hung up around 5 min before he was shot.

You "heard" that she changed her story, got a link, or is this more unsubstantiated bullshit?

Wanna try again idiot?


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Heresy is not generally admissible in court.



So NOW you're in a position to determine which witnesses are hersey and which are telling the truth?  Seriously bigreb, STFU.  Let's just wait until the report comes out, most likely several weeks from now.

Casey Anthony still in hiding?  What is up with Florida?


----------



## uptownlivin90

koshergrl said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, while the possibility of an illegal action is sufficient for the police to arrest and handcuff somebody, which they did in the case of Zimmerman, there has to be sufficient evidence of a crime to put somebody in jail. In this case, the police obviously thought there was not sufficient evidence that Zimmerman committed an illegal act or that justified him being put in jail. And there is no evidence of 'friendship' etc. being involved here. In fact most police officers take a very skeptical view of and disapprove of neighborhood watch vigilantism and such as that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are reports now coming out and witnesses saying that some of the cops actually were pretty skeptical. Including Austin Brown's mother who claimed on MSNBC that the cop that interviewed her son claimed he was convinced Zimmerman wasn't acting in self-defense. I think it probably was an issue where some of the cops may have been skeptical but the DA didn't want to press charges unless they had enough evidence. We'll see if more evidence comes out in the coming days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here we go, you're doing it again..
> 
> "The kid in the video's mom said the cop thought"...
> 
> That's like 3x removed from the last piece of evidence you have, which is the kid saying he saw Trayvon on top.
> 
> Stick to what you know for sure and let the cops sort it out.
Click to expand...


She is as much a witness as anyone else. She stated on television that the officer made the comment in front of her that he believed Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense. It is not hearsay.

The kid never said he saw Trayvon on top. 

More people who were involved however are beginning to speak out, this kids mother, the funeral director that inspected Trayvon's body, etc. It's worth at least noting what they've said. We can note that Trayvon was 200 pound senior high school football player (he wasn't) and run our mouths about alleged twitter messages and connections to the black panthers... so I'm sure it's fair to note ACTUAL FACTS like things that are said live on tv by witness... and not made up fabrications.


----------



## koshergrl

ABikerSailor said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what? So what if Trayvon DID have some sort of an upper hand for a split second? The call to his girlfriend was corroborated with the phone company, and that line was active within moments of the shooting. HE felt threatened. HE had every reason to. HE was walking home, minding his own business, in his father's (and thus his own) neighborhood. HE had every right under the contested law to stand HIS ground and question why a grown assed man was following HIM home. WHEN that grown assed man pulled a gun, HE was well within his rights to try to take it away from him before he was KILLED with it. It's a GODDAMNED shame he wasn't successful.
> 
> Meanwhile, Zimmerman, who was in EPIC good health before he was released, came back TWENTY FOUR HOURS later with the injuries he claims to have sustained in a momentary scuffle over a gun he should never have pulled in the first place.
> 
> WHAT the fuck is WRONG with YOU PEOPLE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard his girlfriend has changed her story, I don't know whats that's about nor do I care. But if Trayvon was in fear for his life why didn't he at least call his father. Why didn't he call 911 either those two would give some doubt to Zimmerman's case for self defense. But no he calls his girlfriend in another city.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid........his girlfriend called HIM while he was walking around, and she hung up around 5 min before he was shot.
> 
> You "heard" that she changed her story, got a link, or is this more unsubstantiated bullshit?
> 
> Wanna try again idiot?
Click to expand...

 
What is her story? Link it, please. I'm sure you must have the transcript of her interview..

And your friend rightwinger in another thread is claiming the gf call ended a minute before the shot.

You guys need to powow about what *facts* you're going to spread around. It would be nice if you all had the same ones.

Meanwhile, link the phone call and the interview with the girlfriend.


----------



## koshergrl

Here I'll make it easy for you:

RW stating the phone call ended 1 min before the shot:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/media...vidence-proof-that-zimmerman-is-lying-3.html?


----------



## koshergrl

This is probably a good time for a coffee break. I don't expect any links, or anything else, at least not for a little bit.


----------



## koshergrl

Crickets.

Now I imagine they'll post a bunch of garbage links to people referencing anonymous and 2nd and third hand sources (the girl, who is unnamed, told the police, according to the Sun Sentinel, back in February...)....

Where is the link to the phone call information that shows us the timeline that proves when it ended and how long it lasted?

Hello? Hello???


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard his girlfriend has changed her story, I don't know whats that's about nor do I care. But if Trayvon was in fear for his life why didn't he at least call his father. Why didn't he call 911 either those two would give some doubt to Zimmerman's case for self defense. But no he calls his girlfriend in another city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey stupid........his girlfriend called HIM while he was walking around, and she hung up around 5 min before he was shot.
> 
> You "heard" that she changed her story, got a link, or is this more unsubstantiated bullshit?
> 
> Wanna try again idiot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is her story? Link it, please. I'm sure you must have the transcript of her interview..
> 
> And your friend rightwinger in another thread is claiming the gf call ended a minute before the shot.
> 
> You guys need to powow about what *facts* you're going to spread around. It would be nice if you all had the same ones.
> 
> Meanwhile, link the phone call and the interview with the girlfriend.
Click to expand...

He's too fucking stupid to think of that. He's a white guy that hate other whites.


----------



## koshergrl

It's not just that...

they don't just hate other whites. They hate the law, and due process, and the police, and truth, and order, and justice.


----------



## Peach

koshergrl said:


> It's not just that...
> 
> they don't just hate other whites. They hate the law, and due process, and the police, and truth, and order, and justice.



Apple pie also?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heresy is not generally admissible in court.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So NOW you're in a position to determine which witnesses are hersey and which are telling the truth?  Seriously bigreb, STFU.  Let's just wait until the report comes out, most likely several weeks from now.
> 
> Casey Anthony still in hiding?  What is up with Florida?
Click to expand...


If a person did not see or hear it happen it's heresy.
Second and third party is not generally admissible in court.

Inadmissible as Hearsay legal definition of Inadmissible as Hearsay. Inadmissible as Hearsay synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.


----------



## The Gadfly

saveliberty said:


> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.



Save, I think it's not so much the concept, as the way this particular statute is written. The language in this one is so broad, that it basically permits any action, even if it's provocative or irresponsible, so long as it isn't definitively unlawful under some other statute.That's a bit much.


----------



## OODA_Loop

The Gadfly said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save, I think it's not so much the concept, as the way this particular statute is written. The language in this one is so broad, that it basically permits any action, even if it's provocative or irresponsible, so long as it isn't definitively unlawful under some other statute.That's a bit much.
Click to expand...


The notion you don't have to retreat before you defend yourself while being violently attacked is good law.


----------



## Ravi

Peach said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just that...
> 
> they don't just hate other whites. They hate the law, and due process, and the police, and truth, and order, and justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple pie also?
Click to expand...

If you question Zimmerman's account, you're a terrorist.


----------



## Ravi

OODA_Loop said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save, I think it's not so much the concept, as the way this particular statute is written. The language in this one is so broad, that it basically permits any action, even if it's provocative or irresponsible, so long as it isn't definitively unlawful under some other statute.That's a bit much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The notion you don't have to retreat before you defend yourself while being violently attacked is good law.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that isn't what the law says.


----------



## saveliberty

The Gadfly said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save, I think it's not so much the concept, as the way this particular statute is written. The language in this one is so broad, that it basically permits any action, even if it's provocative or irresponsible, so long as it isn't definitively unlawful under some other statute.That's a bit much.
Click to expand...


Good point.  Probably the only positive thing we can discuss on this subject until the grand jury comes back.


----------



## koshergrl

Ravi said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just that...
> 
> they don't just hate other whites. They hate the law, and due process, and the police, and truth, and order, and justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple pie also?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you question Zimmerman's account, you're a terrorist.
Click to expand...

 
No, get it right...

if you demand that he be arrested and convicted without due process, and if you insist that any other verdict other than REALLY REALLY GUILTY is WRONG, then you are part of a lynch mob.

That's what lynch mobs do..they don't wait for justice, and if justice is something other than what they think it should be, they ignore it.

Sound familiar? It should. It's the progressive state of being.


----------



## koshergrl

The Gadfly said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this. To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person. A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save, I think it's not so much the concept, as the way this particular statute is written. The language in this one is so broad, that it basically permits any action, even if it's provocative or irresponsible, so long as it isn't definitively unlawful under some other statute.That's a bit much.
Click to expand...

 
Which is EXACTLY what the State's attorney said to the cop who wanted to arrest Zimmerman.

And after that, she probably said "go find me some evidence".


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.


The burden is NEVER on anyone to prove they did NOT do something wrong.  We always presume innocence.

This is the USA, and frankly, it's basic logic.


----------



## koshergrl

Good grief.


----------



## Ravi

koshergrl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apple pie also?
> 
> 
> 
> If you question Zimmerman's account, you're a terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, get it right...
> 
> if you demand that he be arrested and convicted without due process, and if you insist that any other verdict other than REALLY REALLY GUILTY is WRONG, then you are part of a lynch mob.
> 
> That's what lynch mobs do..they don't wait for justice, and if justice is something other than what they think it should be, they ignore it.
> 
> Sound familiar? It should. It's the progressive state of being.
Click to expand...

I never said that, Babble, nor do I think anyone else has....sure, they've said he should be arrested, but not that he be convicted without due process. That's more a rightwingloon meme.

I have to say I'm disappointed that you've turned out to be a liar.


----------



## koshergrl

I'm not a liar.

Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...

Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.

I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.


----------



## Peach

koshergrl said:


> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.



No signs of fighting on the victim's body:

CBS News) SANFORD, Florida - The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman is neighborhood watch volunteer at the center of the case. It was almost five weeks that Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old, was killed after Zimmerman found him suspicious. We don't know what happened immediately immediately before the shot was fired. CBS News correspondent Mark Strassman has new evidence in the case.

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.



No save clarified I was speaking of the law needing modificationso that it is easier to take Zimmerman to trial where is guilt can be proved or disproved.  Granted, I did word it poorly the first time.  Please explain how due process takes place before an arrest?


----------



## uptownlivin90

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> The burden is NEVER on anyone to prove they did NOT do something wrong.  We always presume innocence.
> 
> This is the USA, and frankly, it's basic logic.
Click to expand...


In self-defense cases after a charge is brought up the burden of proof IS actually on the accused to prove self-defense.

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. Zimmerman would affirm he actually shot Trayvon Martin and that shot led to Martin's death. However his defense would be self-defense, thus if he's charged he has to prove that he was acting in self-defense. At least... this is how I understand it.


----------



## Peach

koshergrl said:


> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.



Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?


----------



## teapartysamurai

I love the stupidity in liberal identity politics






If a white guy had killed George Zimmerman, you KNOW the libs would be going full tilt on it being a "hate crime" of a white man killing an "hispanic" man.  

But when Obama is DESPERATE for SOMETHING to distract people with since his war on Women fell flat, and the USSC is handing Obama his head, suddenly an hispanic man becomes a White man in the interests of trumping up a hate crime.

It's extremely telling is it not?

Predict another fail for liberals.  As usual, they are WAY OVER REACHING, and most voters are going to be appalled.  

How are they over reaching?  Oh how about a BOUNTY TO KIDNAP AND MURDER ZIMMERMAN and NO ONE in the Mainstream Media OR the Obama admin even gives a flying flip?

Obama can be bothered to make the comment his son would look like Trayon, but he CAN'T be counted on to say one word about PROPOSED KIDNAPPING AND MURDER?

Or how about the tweeting of the address of an elderly couple who has NOTHING to do with Zimmerman, and those poor people have been forced to flee their home?

Notice, those "OUTRAGED" (when it advantages them politically) over Trayon can't managing a flying flip (ONCE AGAIN) over this?

That's what I call overreaching. 

They way liberals are headed, the Paul Wellstone Memorial Debacle is going to seem like the "good old times."  

Liberals are inciting such DISGUST in the normal voting public, they are going to be just broadsided when they see the reaction this November.

And the sad thing is liberals don't see that.  They really think this is going to get them the election in November, the poor dopes!


----------



## Ravi

koshergrl said:


> I'm not a liar.



bullshit


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Peach said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
Click to expand...


Why can't you wait until the police finish the investigation before you lynch Zimmerman?


----------



## Peach

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why can't you wait until the police finish the investigation before you lynch Zimmerman?
Click to expand...


The investigation is now with the Special Prosecutor. Reading that the victim had no injuries consistent with a fight seems not to concern many. He has killed once, why do you think Zimmerman won't kill again?


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why can't you wait until the police finish the investigation before you lynch Zimmerman?
Click to expand...


Why did you ignore her point?


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it bothers most of us; that's why many of us want the law rewritten.


----------



## koshergrl

Peach said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
Click to expand...

 
Yes, arrest DOES require due process.


----------



## Peach

koshergrl said:


> peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes, arrest does require due process.
Click to expand...


probable cause.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a liar.
> 
> Yes, they've said he should be arrested...without due process. They've said he's a murderer, that the *evidence* clearly proves it, that there's corruption, that nobody's investigating, that evidence wasn't taken, that his body wasn't released, that Zimmerman weighed 240 lbs, that he wasn't hurt, that he *hunted*...
> 
> Save has even commented that the onus is on Zimmerman to prove his innocence...not the state to prove his guilt.
> 
> I'm not the liar here. Not by a long shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure it bothers most of us; that's why many of us want the law rewritten.
Click to expand...


The killer is someone, loose & free as a bird.


----------



## Peach

KissMy said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> No signs of fighting on the victim's body:
> 
> CBS News) SANFORD, Florida - The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin.
> 
> Zimmerman is neighborhood watch volunteer at the center of the case. It was almost five weeks that Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old, was killed after Zimmerman found him suspicious. We don't know what happened immediately immediately before the shot was fired. CBS News correspondent Mark Strassman has new evidence in the case.
> 
> Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.
> 
> "We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dead people don't bruise. Traumas won't bruise if the heart is not pumping. If he died within minutes of the trauma there would be no bruising.
Click to expand...


Zimmerman did not fight back while the victim was beating him to the extent he feared for his life?


----------



## Peach

KissMy said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dead people don't bruise. Traumas won't bruise if the heart is not pumping. If he died within minutes of the trauma there would be no bruising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman did not fight back while the victim was beating him to the extent he feared for his life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No -  - I'm saying that there will be no bruising on Trayvon Martin's body because his heart stopped to suddenly after hitting & being hit.
Click to expand...


Awful quick fight. Perhaps that is why Zimmerman required so little medical attention.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest doesn't require due process; having a guy that kills unarmed people walking down a street doesn't bother you?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it bothers most of us; that's why many of us want the law rewritten.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The killer is someone, loose & free as a bird.
Click to expand...

As he should be.  He is not convicted, and there has been no grand jury, because what he did, and corroborated by witnesses, the DA decided not to pursue.  Likely because a conviction under Florida law would be very difficult.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman did not fight back while the victim was beating him to the extent he feared for his life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No -  - I'm saying that there will be no bruising on Trayvon Martin's body because his heart stopped to suddenly after hitting & being hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Awful quick fight. Perhaps that is why Zimmerman required so little medical attention.
Click to expand...

The average length of street fights is 90 seconds, so my Krav instructor tells me.


----------



## KissMy

Peach said:


> Awful quick fight. Perhaps that is why Zimmerman required so little medical attention.



My guess the fight start to finish was under 3 minutes. I would have to look back at the call logs to be sure.


----------



## Peach

Si modo said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No -  - I'm saying that there will be no bruising on Trayvon Martin's body because his heart stopped to suddenly after hitting & being hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awful quick fight. Perhaps that is why Zimmerman required so little medical attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The average length of street fights is 90 seconds, so my Krav instructor tells me.
Click to expand...


The "beating" of Zimmerman seems protracted from those who see this as self defense. I am thinking of Florida and the requirement for fear of deadly force however.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awful quick fight. Perhaps that is why Zimmerman required so little medical attention.
> 
> 
> 
> The average length of street fights is 90 seconds, so my Krav instructor tells me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "beating" of Zimmerman seems protracted from those who see this as self defense. I am thinking of Florida and the requirement for fear of deadly force however.
Click to expand...


The fear part would have been when Trayvon went for Zimmerman's firearm, a person try's for your gun they are not going to stop if they aren't stopped the first time they will keep trying until they are dead.


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awful quick fight. Perhaps that is why Zimmerman required so little medical attention.
> 
> 
> 
> The average length of street fights is 90 seconds, so my Krav instructor tells me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "beating" of Zimmerman seems protracted from those who see this as self defense. I am thinking of Florida and the requirement for fear of deadly force however.
Click to expand...

I doubt it's just me, but anyone who would get physical with me would cause me to fear for my life or great bodily harm.  Per section (3) of the statute, that is what Zimmerman needs.


----------



## KissMy

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CObnRp5xVtM"]George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting[/ame]


----------



## uptownlivin90

teapartysamurai said:


> I love the stupidity in liberal identity politics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a white guy had killed George Zimmerman, you KNOW the libs would be going full tilt on it being a "hate crime" of a white man killing an "hispanic" man.



Zimmerman is white according to the people on this board. 

So you're point is moot...

As for the rest of your post I read up to the word "Obama" and just stopped reading. Unless Obama moved to Sanford the day before the shooting and is being called in as a witness because he saw something, he's totally and completely irrelevant to the case at hand I thought that's what we were talking about. Ya know... the dead kid? Remember that?

For the record I don't believe in special "Hate crimes" legislation. All crimes are hate crimes... 

... judges generally sentence based on how heinous the crime is. If the crime is a random act on an innocent victim because they are black, jewish, gay, a woman, etc judges usually can be expected to take that into consideration in sentencing anyway. I don't see a point in that foolishness besides a stepping stone to establishing restrictions on "hate speech", and I'm 100% first amendment... so I think that sucks. 

Demonstration: if the Zimmster killed Martin because he was black, that makes Trayvon a totally innocent random party, which in itself makes the crime more heinous. So the judge doesn't need special legislation to throw the book at Zimmy. Zimmy has a right to not like black folks (I'm not saying he does or doesn't) he doesn't have a right to kill innocent people black, white, hispanic, green, orange, or purple.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> teapartysamurai said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stupidity in liberal identity politics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a white guy had killed George Zimmerman, you KNOW the libs would be going full tilt on it being a "hate crime" of a white man killing an "hispanic" man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is white according to the people on this board.
> 
> So you're point is moot...
> 
> As for the rest of your post I read up to the word "Obama" and just stopped reading. Unless Obama moved to Sanford the day before the shooting and is being called in as a witness because he saw something, he's totally and completely irrelevant to the case at hand I thought that's what we were talking about. Ya know... the dead kid? Remember that?
> 
> For the record I don't believe in special "Hate crimes" legislation. All crimes are hate crimes...
> 
> ... judges generally sentence based on how heinous the crime is. If the crime is a random act on an innocent victim because they are black, jewish, gay, a woman, etc judges usually can be expected to take that into consideration in sentencing anyway. I don't see a point in that foolishness besides a stepping stone to establishing restrictions on "hate speech", and I'm 100% first amendment... so I think that sucks.
> 
> Demonstration: if the Zimmster killed Martin because he was black, that makes Trayvon a totally innocent random party, which in itself makes the crime more heinous. So the judge doesn't need special legislation to throw the book at Zimmy. Zimmy has a right to not like black folks (I'm not saying he does or doesn't) he doesn't have a right to kill innocent people black, white, hispanic, green, orange, or purple.
Click to expand...


There you go the people of this board has to make him white to make their outrage more viable


----------



## uptownlivin90

KissMy said:


> George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting



This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!

No seriously. 

His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.

60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.

From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting. 

If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case? 

I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?


----------



## uptownlivin90

bigrebnc1775 said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teapartysamurai said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the stupidity in liberal identity politics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a white guy had killed George Zimmerman, you KNOW the libs would be going full tilt on it being a "hate crime" of a white man killing an "hispanic" man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman is white according to the people on this board.
> 
> So you're point is moot...
> 
> As for the rest of your post I read up to the word "Obama" and just stopped reading. Unless Obama moved to Sanford the day before the shooting and is being called in as a witness because he saw something, he's totally and completely irrelevant to the case at hand I thought that's what we were talking about. Ya know... the dead kid? Remember that?
> 
> For the record I don't believe in special "Hate crimes" legislation. All crimes are hate crimes...
> 
> ... judges generally sentence based on how heinous the crime is. If the crime is a random act on an innocent victim because they are black, jewish, gay, a woman, etc judges usually can be expected to take that into consideration in sentencing anyway. I don't see a point in that foolishness besides a stepping stone to establishing restrictions on "hate speech", and I'm 100% first amendment... so I think that sucks.
> 
> Demonstration: if the Zimmster killed Martin because he was black, that makes Trayvon a totally innocent random party, which in itself makes the crime more heinous. So the judge doesn't need special legislation to throw the book at Zimmy. Zimmy has a right to not like black folks (I'm not saying he does or doesn't) he doesn't have a right to kill innocent people black, white, hispanic, green, orange, or purple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There you go the people of this board has to make him white to make their outrage more viable
Click to expand...


Look man, I don't know. I've been calling Zimmerman Hispanic since the beginning. Then some Trayvon supporters started yelling about how he was white in the police report, then some Zimmerman supporters started saying it was a trick of the liberal media. Then later on in another thread some random Zimmerman supporters started claiming Hispanic isn't a race and it's the liberal media twisting the story again somehow. I haven't a clue.

Maybe you should go find them and argue with them... because I don't particularly care either way.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Thanks Libilty for sharing this
http://www.usmessageboard.com/5040907-post340.html


----------



## KissMy

uptownlivin90 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
Click to expand...


I am with you there. If Martin saw the gun it would explain the sudden violent attack. I think it would be more no fault. If Zimmerman flashed or pulled the gun, then it is more on him.


----------



## The Gadfly

uptownlivin90 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law did set up problems for a situation like this.  To me, the burden of proof should be on the shooter and not the dead person.  A hold your ground law invites aggressive action.
> 
> 
> 
> The burden is NEVER on anyone to prove they did NOT do something wrong.  We always presume innocence.
> 
> This is the USA, and frankly, it's basic logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In self-defense cases after a charge is brought up the burden of proof IS actually on the accused to prove self-defense.
> 
> Self-defense is an affirmative defense. Zimmerman would affirm he actually shot Trayvon Martin and that shot led to Martin's death. However his defense would be self-defense, thus if he's charged he has to prove that he was acting in self-defense. At least... this is how I understand it.
Click to expand...

Uptown, with many self-defense statutes, that's how it works. This particular Florida law looks different, in that all Zimmerman has to show is that he acted lawfully, up until the moment he drew the gun and fired. That's a CRUCIAL distinction.  With most old-style (common law) self defense statutes, Zimmerman would have to show that he (1) did not initiate the confrontation  unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable, and (4) that he was unable to flee without unreasonably exposing himself to threat of death or serious bodily injury.  The standard for "reasonable" is normally ordinary common sense. That's how the law we have here in SC works. Now it appears, that under the applicable Florida law, Zimmerman only has to show one of those things (number 3, above) and that he was where he was lawfully, and was not in violation of another criminal statute. Not only is that a lower burden of proof; on top of it, the "lawfully present" and not acting  "unlawfully" language seems to put the burden of proving that part back on the state, as a person is normally PRESUMED to be acting lawfully, absent a showing of a violation of (another) statute. By that standard , an act may be stupid, or even reckless, without being "unlawful". That part of it  may well be why the State Attorney who initially reviewed the case refused to charge it, and if I understand correctly that this is a fairly new statute, may also account for some confusion on the part of the Sanford police as to whether they thought Zimmerman's actions appeared to be self-defense. To put it another way, under the law in SC, he likely would NOT be able to make an affirmative showing of self defense; where under the Florida law, as written, the prosecution has a FAR more difficult case. I really think, from a lot of comments I've seen here, that not quite fully appreciating the difference has created considerable misunderstanding of why the case wasn't charged in the beginning, and why it's not a given that it will (or even should be) charged now, unless new evidence comes to light. To further complicate matters, the more recent the statute, the less guidance there is, in the way of established judicial precedent in interpreting it. This whole thing may be less about race, or recklessness, than about confusion over a law that looks extremely loose in its wording. Ever heard of making something so simple it becomes confusing and complicated? That may be the case here; not so much what the law says, as what it DOESN'T say.


----------



## uptownlivin90

KissMy said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> No signs of fighting on the victim's body:
> 
> CBS News) SANFORD, Florida - The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin.
> 
> Zimmerman is neighborhood watch volunteer at the center of the case. It was almost five weeks that Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old, was killed after Zimmerman found him suspicious. We don't know what happened immediately immediately before the shot was fired. CBS News correspondent Mark Strassman has new evidence in the case.
> 
> Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.
> 
> "We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dead people don't bruise. Traumas won't bruise if the heart is not pumping. If he died within minutes of the trauma there would be no bruising.
Click to expand...


Not to be combative, but since we're all CSI experts here D) isn't there something called "post-mortem bruising"? I'm not sure how it works but if I understand correctly depending on the person bruising can continue directly after the death for a couple of hours or so. The bruise wouldn't develop the same way and wouldn't look the same (I remember reading about the difference between post-mortem and ante-mortem bruises, I wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about it now).


----------



## uptownlivin90

KissMy said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am with you there. If Martin saw the gun it would explain the sudden violent attack. I think it would be more no fault. If Zimmerman flashed or pulled the gun, then it is more on him.
Click to expand...


Yeah... that's a real sucky turn of events if that's the case.


----------



## KissMy

The Gadfly said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The burden is NEVER on anyone to prove they did NOT do something wrong.  We always presume innocence.
> 
> This is the USA, and frankly, it's basic logic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In self-defense cases after a charge is brought up the burden of proof IS actually on the accused to prove self-defense.
> 
> Self-defense is an affirmative defense. Zimmerman would affirm he actually shot Trayvon Martin and that shot led to Martin's death. However his defense would be self-defense, thus if he's charged he has to prove that he was acting in self-defense. At least... this is how I understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uptown, with many self-defense statutes, that's how it works. This particular Florida law looks different, in that all Zimmerman has to show is that he acted lawfully, up until the moment he drew the gun and fired. That's a CRUCIAL distinction.  With most old-style (common law) self defense statutes, Zimmerman would have to show that he (1) did not initiate the confrontation  unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable, and (4) that he was unable to flee without unreasonably exposing himself to threat of death or serious bodily injury.  The standard for "reasonable" is normally ordinary common sense. That's how the law we have here in SC works. Now it appears, that under the applicable Florida law, Zimmerman only has to show one of those things (number 3, above) and that he was where he was lawfully, and was not in violation of another criminal statute. Not only is that a lower burden of proof; on top of it, the "lawfully present" and not acting  "unlawfully" language seems to put the burden of proving that part back on the state, as a person is normally PRESUMED to be acting lawfully, absent a showing of a violation of (another) statute. By that standard , an act may be stupid, or even reckless, without being "unlawful". That part of it  may well be why the State Attorney who initially reviewed the case refused to charge it, and if I understand correctly that this is a fairly new statute, may also account for some confusion on the part of the Sanford police as to whether they thought Zimmerman's actions appeared to be self-defense. To put it another way, under the law in SC, he likely would NOT be able to make an affirmative showing of self defense; where under the Florida law, as written, the prosecution has a FAR more difficult case. I really think, from a lot of comments I've seen here, that not quite fully appreciating the difference has created considerable misunderstanding of why the case wasn't charged in the beginning, and why it's not a given that it will (or even should be) charged now, unless new evidence comes to light. To further complicate matters, the more recent the statute, the less guidance there is, in the way of established judicial precedent in interpreting it. This whole thing may be less about race, or recklessness, than about confusion over a law that looks extremely loose in its wording. Ever heard of making something so simple it becomes confusing and complicated? That may be the case here; not so much what the law says, as what it DOESN'T say.
Click to expand...


I have been thinking this same exact thing over the last few days. The blacks in DC, Chicago & other places with restrictive gun laws are so use to being jailed for the slightest gun infraction. Then they see this on TV & cry fowl, racist & start marching in the streets.

You are right about the cops getting confused also. A friend of mine was arrested for having a gun in the back floorboard of the car he was driving after the officer pulled him over for a burned out license plate bulb. The law had changed a few months prior, but I guess this department did not get the memo. They strung the case out for several months & finally dropped it for no reason.


----------



## uptownlivin90

The Gadfly said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The burden is NEVER on anyone to prove they did NOT do something wrong.  We always presume innocence.
> 
> This is the USA, and frankly, it's basic logic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In self-defense cases after a charge is brought up the burden of proof IS actually on the accused to prove self-defense.
> 
> Self-defense is an affirmative defense. Zimmerman would affirm he actually shot Trayvon Martin and that shot led to Martin's death. However his defense would be self-defense, thus if he's charged he has to prove that he was acting in self-defense. At least... this is how I understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uptown, with many self-defense statutes, that's how it works. This particular Florida law looks different, in that all Zimmerman has to show is that he acted lawfully, up until the moment he drew the gun and fired. That's a CRUCIAL distinction.  With most old-style (common law) self defense statutes, Zimmerman would have to show that he (1) did not initiate the confrontation  unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable, and (4) that he was unable to flee without unreasonably exposing himself to threat of death or serious bodily injury.  The standard for "reasonable" is normally ordinary common sense. That's how the law we have here in SC works. Now it appears, that under the applicable Florida law, Zimmerman only has to show one of those things (number 3, above) and that he was where he was lawfully, and was not in violation of another criminal statute. Not only is that a lower burden of proof; on top of it, the "lawfully present" and not acting  "unlawfully" language seems to put the burden of proving that part back on the state, as a person is normally PRESUMED to be acting lawfully, absent a showing of a violation of (another) statute. By that standard , an act may be stupid, or even reckless, without being "unlawful". That part of it  may well be why the State Attorney who initially reviewed the case refused to charge it, and if I understand correctly that this is a fairly new statute, may also account for some confusion on the part of the Sanford police as to whether they thought Zimmerman's actions appeared to be self-defense. To put it another way, under the law in SC, he likely would NOT be able to make an affirmative showing of self defense; where under the Florida law, as written, the prosecution has a FAR more difficult case. I really think, from a lot of comments I've seen here, that not quite fully appreciating the difference has created considerable misunderstanding of why the case wasn't charged in the beginning, and why it's not a given that it will (or even should be) charged now, unless new evidence comes to light. To further complicate matters, the more recent the statute, the less guidance there is, in the way of established judicial precedent in interpreting it. This whole thing may be less about race, or recklessness, than about confusion over a law that looks extremely loose in its wording. Ever heard of making something so simple it becomes confusing and complicated? That may be the case here; not so much what the law says, as what it DOESN'T say.
Click to expand...


Okay, thank you.

That's really interesting, and extremely strange. I was under the impression that only number 4 of the listed criteria is no longer necessary under Florida Law. I had assumed 1-3 were still in order, that he would have to prove that: 

*(1) did not initiate the confrontation unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable,*

If Zimmerman started the confrontation unreasonably that would fall under #1. If he did pull out his gun and Trayvon began beating on him because of that that's #2. But then Trayvon would be able to claim self-defense too because #3 is all that applies, either party could have started the fight, aggravated it, and then killed the other and claimed self-defense... if what you're saying is correct. *ouch my brain hurts*

In that case, I don't see what on Earth Zimmerman or Trayvon could have done that was illegal in the state of Florida. If your characterization of the law is correct... that law is absolutely insane, and I'm JUST NOW realizing how insane it actually is.


----------



## koshergrl

KissMy said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am with you there. If Martin saw the gun it would explain the sudden violent attack. I think it would be more no fault. If Zimmerman flashed or pulled the gun, then it is more on him.
Click to expand...

 
Yeah. I know the first thing I do when I see someone with a gun is ATTACK him.


----------



## The Gadfly

KissMy said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dead people don't bruise. Traumas won't bruise if the heart is not pumping. If he died within minutes of the trauma there would be no bruising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to be combative, but since we're all CSI experts here D) isn't there something called "post-mortem bruising"? I'm not sure how it works but if I understand correctly depending on the person bruising can continue directly after the death for a couple of hours or so. The bruise wouldn't develop the same way and wouldn't look the same (I remember reading about the difference between post-mortem and ante-mortem bruises, I wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about it now).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought post-mortem bruising was the pooling of blood in the lowest areas. Like if you were laying on your back dead your back would be bruised.
Click to expand...

That's called lividity; useful along with other factors in determining how long someone has been dead.


----------



## uptownlivin90

KissMy said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dead people don't bruise. Traumas won't bruise if the heart is not pumping. If he died within minutes of the trauma there would be no bruising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to be combative, but since we're all CSI experts here D) isn't there something called "post-mortem bruising"? I'm not sure how it works but if I understand correctly depending on the person bruising can continue directly after the death for a couple of hours or so. The bruise wouldn't develop the same way and wouldn't look the same (I remember reading about the difference between post-mortem and ante-mortem bruises, I wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about it now).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought post-mortem bruising was the pooling of blood in the lowest areas. Like if you were laying on your back dead your back would be bruised.
Click to expand...


Yes. From what I understand though there's a certain way you can make a body bruise if you handle it improperly (after it's dead).

I started snooping around google a few minutes ago and as of right now this is the only site that references bruising RIGHT after death:

"Bruising is not an accurate way of deciding how the victim met their fate, as interpreting bruising is different in every person, *due to the fact that people bruise at different rates and bruising continues for a short while after death*." 
Forensic Science | Marks Of Violence

Not sure how accurate that is. I understand why bruising generally doesn't continue after death but I've always been under the impression that it can still continue in weird circumstances or while the body is actually in the process of dying and right after they die.


----------



## KissMy

koshergrl said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am with you there. If Martin saw the gun it would explain the sudden violent attack. I think it would be more no fault. If Zimmerman flashed or pulled the gun, then it is more on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah. I know the first thing I do when I see someone with a gun is ATTACK him.
Click to expand...


Well that depends on how many times you have been in a conflict involving a gun. That is why I believe Martin was no angle. The first couple of times I had a gun pulled on me I froze out of fear. The 3 times after that I instantly attacked the fuckers hard & fast. They never knew what hit them. Aikido is great for disarming people with guns in close combat.


----------



## uptownlivin90

KissMy said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In self-defense cases after a charge is brought up the burden of proof IS actually on the accused to prove self-defense.
> 
> Self-defense is an affirmative defense. Zimmerman would affirm he actually shot Trayvon Martin and that shot led to Martin's death. However his defense would be self-defense, thus if he's charged he has to prove that he was acting in self-defense. At least... this is how I understand it.
> 
> 
> 
> Uptown, with many self-defense statutes, that's how it works. This particular Florida law looks different, in that all Zimmerman has to show is that he acted lawfully, up until the moment he drew the gun and fired. That's a CRUCIAL distinction.  With most old-style (common law) self defense statutes, Zimmerman would have to show that he (1) did not initiate the confrontation  unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable, and (4) that he was unable to flee without unreasonably exposing himself to threat of death or serious bodily injury.  The standard for "reasonable" is normally ordinary common sense. That's how the law we have here in SC works. Now it appears, that under the applicable Florida law, Zimmerman only has to show one of those things (number 3, above) and that he was where he was lawfully, and was not in violation of another criminal statute. Not only is that a lower burden of proof; on top of it, the "lawfully present" and not acting  "unlawfully" language seems to put the burden of proving that part back on the state, as a person is normally PRESUMED to be acting lawfully, absent a showing of a violation of (another) statute. By that standard , an act may be stupid, or even reckless, without being "unlawful". That part of it  may well be why the State Attorney who initially reviewed the case refused to charge it, and if I understand correctly that this is a fairly new statute, may also account for some confusion on the part of the Sanford police as to whether they thought Zimmerman's actions appeared to be self-defense. To put it another way, under the law in SC, he likely would NOT be able to make an affirmative showing of self defense; where under the Florida law, as written, the prosecution has a FAR more difficult case. I really think, from a lot of comments I've seen here, that not quite fully appreciating the difference has created considerable misunderstanding of why the case wasn't charged in the beginning, and why it's not a given that it will (or even should be) charged now, unless new evidence comes to light. To further complicate matters, the more recent the statute, the less guidance there is, in the way of established judicial precedent in interpreting it. This whole thing may be less about race, or recklessness, than about confusion over a law that looks extremely loose in its wording. Ever heard of making something so simple it becomes confusing and complicated? That may be the case here; not so much what the law says, as what it DOESN'T say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been thinking this same exact thing over the last few days. The blacks in DC, Chicago & other places with restrictive gun laws are so use to being jailed for the slightest gun infraction. Then they see this on TV & cry fowl, racist & start marching in the streets.
> 
> You are right about the cops getting confused also. A friend of mine was arrested for having a gun in the back floorboard of the car he was driving after the officer pulled him over for a burned out license plate bulb. The law had changed a few months prior, but I guess this department did not get the memo. They strung the case out for several months & finally dropped it for no reason.
Click to expand...


IDK about "the blacks" but I certainly do sometimes confuse myself because I apply the laws I grew up with in Mississippi and Maryland and understanding of THOSE laws to this situation. Now I actually see how this law applies to Trayvon and Zimmerman's altercation (because I was under the impression that it doesn't apply at all to the situation). I'm still kind of shocked.


----------



## The Gadfly

uptownlivin90 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In self-defense cases after a charge is brought up the burden of proof IS actually on the accused to prove self-defense.
> 
> Self-defense is an affirmative defense. Zimmerman would affirm he actually shot Trayvon Martin and that shot led to Martin's death. However his defense would be self-defense, thus if he's charged he has to prove that he was acting in self-defense. At least... this is how I understand it.
> 
> 
> 
> Uptown, with many self-defense statutes, that's how it works. This particular Florida law looks different, in that all Zimmerman has to show is that he acted lawfully, up until the moment he drew the gun and fired. That's a CRUCIAL distinction.  With most old-style (common law) self defense statutes, Zimmerman would have to show that he (1) did not initiate the confrontation  unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable, and (4) that he was unable to flee without unreasonably exposing himself to threat of death or serious bodily injury.  The standard for "reasonable" is normally ordinary common sense. That's how the law we have here in SC works. Now it appears, that under the applicable Florida law, Zimmerman only has to show one of those things (number 3, above) and that he was where he was lawfully, and was not in violation of another criminal statute. Not only is that a lower burden of proof; on top of it, the "lawfully present" and not acting  "unlawfully" language seems to put the burden of proving that part back on the state, as a person is normally PRESUMED to be acting lawfully, absent a showing of a violation of (another) statute. By that standard , an act may be stupid, or even reckless, without being "unlawful". That part of it  may well be why the State Attorney who initially reviewed the case refused to charge it, and if I understand correctly that this is a fairly new statute, may also account for some confusion on the part of the Sanford police as to whether they thought Zimmerman's actions appeared to be self-defense. To put it another way, under the law in SC, he likely would NOT be able to make an affirmative showing of self defense; where under the Florida law, as written, the prosecution has a FAR more difficult case. I really think, from a lot of comments I've seen here, that not quite fully appreciating the difference has created considerable misunderstanding of why the case wasn't charged in the beginning, and why it's not a given that it will (or even should be) charged now, unless new evidence comes to light. To further complicate matters, the more recent the statute, the less guidance there is, in the way of established judicial precedent in interpreting it. This whole thing may be less about race, or recklessness, than about confusion over a law that looks extremely loose in its wording. Ever heard of making something so simple it becomes confusing and complicated? That may be the case here; not so much what the law says, as what it DOESN'T say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, thank you.
> 
> That's really interesting, and extremely strange. I was under the impression that only number 4 of the listed criteria is no longer necessary under Florida Law. I had assumed 1-3 were still in order, that he would have to prove that:
> 
> *(1) did not initiate the confrontation unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable,*
> 
> If Zimmerman started the confrontation unreasonably that would fall under #1. If he did pull out his gun and Trayvon began beating on him because of that that's #2. But then Trayvon would be able to claim self-defense too because #3 is all that applies, either party could have started the fight, aggravated it, and then killed the other and claimed self-defense... if what you're saying is correct. *ouch my brain hurts*
> 
> In that case, I don't see what on Earth Zimmerman or Trayvon could have done that was illegal in the state of Florida. If your characterization of the law is correct... that law is absolutely insane, and I'm JUST NOW realizing how insane it actually is.
Click to expand...

It is strange, Uptown. You see, what the legislature was TRYING to do, was simply get rid of the "duty to retreat"; the idea was an extension of the "castle doctrine" from the home to the outside. The idea was that the old common law "duty to retreat" could put an unreasonable burden on someone trying to defend himself (primarily against lethal force). Well and good, and in and of itself, there's nothing really wrong with that. The problem comes in because of the way this particular law tried to do that; inadvertently or not, it actually does quite a bit more. Basically it seems to extend the concept of self-defense (to include use of lethal force,yet) to any case where someone is attacked, without having first broken any other law himself! That superficially sounds OK too, UNTIL you consider all the potential ramifications; at which point it's like intending to open a narrow gateway, and instead creating something you could literally drive a semi through! That IS crazy, and the more one looks at it, the crazier it looks. All I can say is, it's not the first time a bad criminal statute was created with good intentions, and a poor choice of words. Do you remember a case in GA a few years back, where the legislature had passed a new child sodomy statute that made oral sex with a minor under 16 child molestation? The problem was, that the law was worded in such a way, that it could also allow another minor who had oral sex with an underage partner to be charged with an offense that carried something like a fifteen year minimum sentence That was clearly not the intent, but that's what the law said, and sure enough, a prosecutor charged a 17 year old with this for getting oral sex from a sixteen year old at a party. He wasn't,  as I recall, even chargeable with statutory rape IF he had intercourse with the girl, which he did not (not enough age difference, by law) but the prosecutor used the child molestation statute to throw the book at him over a BJ.. Just to compound that, the legislature fixed the defective language that made that possible the next year, but failed to make it retroactive, so the kid's sentence stood, the prosecutor stood his ground, in spite of the obvious injustice of the thing, and it eventually took a lot of outcry, and the state supreme court, no less, to right the outrageous wrong that had been done. Badly written law, alas, has unforeseen consequences, and I'm afraid that may be the case in this current instance. The problem is, you can fix the statute, but there's no way to make the fix retroactive to this case; it is a good deal easier to revise a law to let someone OUT of jail , than revise one, to put someone IN jail-I don't think the latter would pass constitutional muster, among other things.


----------



## The Gadfly

Uptown, there's a link to the statute in the earlier portion of one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads. If you can find it, look at the language yourself. C _Clayton_Jones posted a legal analysis of what it says as well,  it's either in this thread or the other oldest one. Read those, and see if you agree with me. Yes, in this case, I think either party really could have killed the other, and then claimed self defense, so long as there was no evidence he attacked the other first. Obviously, if that's the case, this law HAS to be changed.


----------



## koshergrl

Add to those nightmare laws mandatory sentencing and you have a heinous nightmare.


----------



## KissMy

The Gadfly said:


> Uptown, there's a link to the statute in the earlier portion of one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads. If you can find it, look at the language yourself. C _Clayton_Jones posted a legal analysis of what it says as well,  it's either in this thread or the other oldest one. Read those, and see if you agree with me. Yes, in this case, I think either party really could have killed the other, and then claimed self defense, so long as there was no evidence he attacked the other first. Obviously, if that's the case, this law HAS to be changed.



This is not a loophole big enough to drive a truck through. It is a small glitch that may occasionally come up. People aren't getting away with murder with this law. Criminals are now getting hit instead of the victims.


----------



## The Gadfly

koshergrl said:


> Add to those nightmare laws mandatory sentencing and you have a heinous nightmare.


Which is exactly what happened in the GA case i mentioned. Any reasonable examination of the facts of that case revealed it for the absolute travesty it was; all the same, it took three years to fix it, as I recall.This is similar, in a different sort of way


----------



## Barb

bigrebnc1775 said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, while the possibility of an illegal action is sufficient for the police to arrest and handcuff somebody, which they did in the case of Zimmerman, there has to be sufficient evidence of a crime to put somebody in jail.  In this case, the police obviously thought there was not sufficient evidence that Zimmerman committed an illegal act or that justified him being put in jail.  And there is no evidence of 'friendship' etc. being involved here.  In fact most police officers take a very skeptical view of and disapprove of neighborhood watch vigilantism and such as that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are reports now coming out and witnesses saying that some of the cops actually were pretty skeptical. Including Austin Brown's mother who claimed on MSNBC that the cop that interviewed her son claimed he was convinced Zimmerman wasn't acting in self-defense. I think it probably was an issue where some of the cops may have been skeptical but the DA didn't want to press charges unless they had enough evidence. We'll see if more evidence comes out in the coming days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heresy is not generally admissible in court.
Click to expand...


Guess what, Perry Mason: You're not in court.


----------



## KissMy

This Florida law works just fine. If Martin's body does not have any damage as some have suggested is the case, it proves Zimmerman did not landed any punches. Then there is no way Zimmerman threw the first punch & started the fight. Zimmerman has injuries consistent with his statements. He was sucker punched by Martin in the nose, went down. Martin jump on top of him, grabbed his head and slammed it against the concrete while Zimmerman screamed "HELP!". Verified by eye-witness & 911 tape.

If Zimmerman intended to take Martin out he would not have called 911 to set himself up as the vigilante stalker & Martin as standing his ground. Timing the finding of Martin, getting him to attack with out someone seeing it & when to shoot Martin between hanging up on 911 & the police arriving would have been extraordinary. If Zimmerman were to set Martin up he would have just made it look like he was suddenly attacked by Martin like a mugging.

If Martin was innocent then why did he run when Zimmerman first approached? Also why did Martin sneak back up on Zimmerman as he was heading back to his vehicle? The reason Martin was there is because he was in the middle of serving his school suspension for transporting drugs. His on-line identity is that of a extremely violent gangster thug rap song. He was in possession of jewelry that was not his & refused to say who's it was. He has tattoos before the age 17. He was not even scared of the gun  that was exposed as Zimmerman tried to retreat, but in-fact tried to take it from Zimmerman. Young Martin has been is this violent type of situation before.


----------



## eots

> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Florida law works just fine. If Martin's body does not have any damage as some have suggested is the case, it proves Zimmerman did not landed any punches. Then there is no way Zimmerman threw the first punch & started the fight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you assume any aggressive act or blow leaves a mark ..sounds like you have not done much fighting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman has injuries consistent with his statements. He was sucker punched by Martin in the nose, went down. Martin jump on top of him, grabbed his head and slammed it against the concrete while Zimmerman screamed "HELP!". Verified by eye-witness & 911 tape.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there are conflicting accounts and no confirmed injuries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman intended to take Martin out he would not have called 911 to set himself up as the vigilante stalker & Martin as standing his ground
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> how can you assume this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timing the finding of Martin, getting him to attack with out someone seeing it & when to shoot Martin between hanging up on 911 & the police arriving would have been extraordinary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he was told not to follow but did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman were to set Martin up he would have just made it look like he was suddenly attacked by Martin like a mugging.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> thats what he did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Martin was innocent then why did he run when Zimmerman first approached?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he is not a cop and had no authority to stop anyone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also why did Martin sneak back up on Zimmerman as he was heading back to his vehicle? The reason Martin was there is because he was in the middle of serving his school suspension for transporting drugs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> he had a weed pipe with some residue in it you freak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His on-line identity is that of a extremely violent gangster thug rap song
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ya him and a a few million wiggers ..so what ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was in possession of jewelry that was not his & refused to say who's it was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh well fine execute the child then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has tattoos before the age 17.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so did I ,my brother, my son ,my daughter, my father you are something else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was not even scared of the gun  that was exposed as Zimmerman tried to retreat, but in-fact tried to take it from Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> maybe because he thought he was in danger
> 
> 
> 
> Young Martin has been is this violent type of situation before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> when ? we know the perp  zimmy has a history of criminal violence but what is Martins ?
Click to expand...


----------



## LockeJaw

eots said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This Florida law works just fine. If Martin's body does not have any damage as some have suggested is the case, it proves Zimmerman did not landed any punches. Then there is no way Zimmerman threw the first punch & started the fight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you assume any aggressive act or blow leaves a mark ..sounds like you have not done much fighting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there are conflicting accounts and no confirmed injuries
> 
> .
> 
> how can you assume this ?
> 
> 
> 
> he was told not to follow but did
> 
> 
> 
> thats what he did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he is not a cop and had no authority to stop anyone
> 
> .
> 
> he had a weed pipe with some residue in it you freak
> 
> 
> 
> ya him and a a few million wiggers ..so what ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh well fine execute the child then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so did I ,my brother, my son ,my daughter, my father you are something else
> 
> 
> 
> maybe because he thought he was in danger
> 
> 
> 
> Young Martin has been is this violent type of situation before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> when ? we know the perp  zimmy has a history of criminal violence but what is Martins ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The perp? What the fuck are you, a wannabe cop? The Perp! The Perp!
> 
> Jackass.
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

LockeJaw said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you assume any aggressive act or blow leaves a mark ..sounds like you have not done much fighting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there are conflicting accounts and no confirmed injuries
> 
> .
> 
> how can you assume this ?
> 
> 
> 
> he was told not to follow but did
> 
> 
> 
> thats what he did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he is not a cop and had no authority to stop anyone
> 
> .
> 
> he had a weed pipe with some residue in it you freak
> 
> 
> 
> ya him and a a few million wiggers ..so what ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh well fine execute the child then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so did I ,my brother, my son ,my daughter, my father you are something else
> 
> 
> 
> maybe because he thought he was in danger
> 
> 
> when ? we know the perp  zimmy has a history of criminal violence but what is Martins ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The perp? What the fuck are you, a wannabe cop? The Perp! The Perp!
> 
> Jackass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The wanna be cop is the one that caused the death of this boy
Click to expand...


----------



## KissMy

eots said:


> Blah...Blah...Blah The whole city government is racist Blah...Blah...Blah



Everything is a huge conspiracy with you. Hows that working out for you? Have you ever unraveled or cracked the case on any of those conspiracies? Don't miss that tinfoil sale at the dollar store.


----------



## LockeJaw

eots said:


> LockeJaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> The perp? What the fuck are you, a wannabe cop? The Perp! The Perp!
> 
> Jackass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wanna be cop is the one that caused the death of this boy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you different?
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

KissMy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah...Blah...Blah The whole city government is racist Blah...Blah...Blah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I NEVER SAID A WORD ABOUT RACE...BUT YOU JUST DID
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is a huge conspiracy with you. Hows that working out for you? Have you ever unraveled or cracked the case on any of those conspiracies? Don't miss that tinfoil sale at the dollar store.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THE TINFOIL SEEMS TO BE THINKING A YOUNG MAN WITH CANDY AND A ICE TEA IS A THREAT AND NEEDS TO BE FOLLOWED WITH A GUN
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

LockeJaw said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LockeJaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wanna be cop is the one that caused the death of this boy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not calling 911 on kids with candy following them and shooting them
Click to expand...


----------



## KissMy

eots said:


> The wanna be cop is the one that caused the death of this boy



No - The boy caused his own death by attempting to kill Zimmerman & take his gun.


----------



## eots

KissMy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wanna be cop is the one that caused the death of this boy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No - The boy caused his own death by attempting to kill Zimmerman & take his gun.
Click to expand...


why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?


----------



## KissMy

eots said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wanna be cop is the one that caused the death of this boy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No - The boy caused his own death by attempting to kill Zimmerman & take his gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?
Click to expand...


Zimmerman had his gun concealed. The gun became exposed as Zimmerman was trying to move away from Martin as Martin was pounding his head onto the sidewalk After Martin sucker punched him.


----------



## eots

KissMy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No - The boy caused his own death by attempting to kill Zimmerman & take his gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman had his gun concealed. The gun became exposed as Zimmerman was trying to move away from Martin as Martin was pounding his head onto the sidewalk.
Click to expand...


and you know this how ? why was the gun not holstered...what kind of thug carries a gun without a holster


----------



## LockeJaw

eots said:


> LockeJaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you different?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not calling 911 on kids with candy following them and shooting them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your emotional appeal BS is showing... Try harder.
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

LockeJaw said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LockeJaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not calling 911 on kids with candy following them and shooting them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your emotional appeal BS is showing... Try harder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so he did not follow him ?..he said he was...the kid was not a kid ? he did not have candy in his hand ? he did not shoot and kill the boy ? what part is bs ?
Click to expand...


----------



## OODA_Loop

eots said:


> LockeJaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your emotional appeal BS is showing... Try harder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so he did not follow him ?..he said he was...the kid was not a kid ? he did not have candy in his hand ? he did not shoot and kill the boy ? what part is bs ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 911 tapes dont support your claims and show he didnt follow him.
> 
> Zim says he doesnt want to give his address cause he _"doesnt know where this person is"_
Click to expand...


----------



## bigrebnc1775

eots said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman had his gun concealed. The gun became exposed as Zimmerman was trying to move away from Martin as Martin was pounding his head onto the sidewalk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and you know this how ? why was the gun not holstered...what kind of thug carries a gun without a holster
Click to expand...


Until there is a witness that says Zimmerman had his firearm out before the fight it's all speculation to presume he did have it out and brandishing it at Trayvon. And would be inadmissible in a court of  law.


----------



## Ravi

uptownlivin90 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

New witness saw them fighting, in the grass so I'm not sure how Zimmerman can continue his claim of getting his head bashed on the sidewalk. Witness also said Zimmerman walked right past him after the shooting and appeared uninjured.


----------



## Ravi

KissMy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No - The boy caused his own death by attempting to kill Zimmerman & take his gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman had his gun concealed. The gun became exposed as Zimmerman was trying to move away from Martin as Martin was pounding his head onto the sidewalk After Martin sucker punched him.
Click to expand...


You were there? I hadn't realized that.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> New witness saw them fighting, in the grass so I'm not sure how Zimmerman can continue his claim of getting his head bashed on the sidewalk. Witness also said Zimmerman walked right past him after the shooting and appeared uninjured.
Click to expand...


And when did this witness come forward, before this event became nationalized or after?
If that is the case I was there and saw the whole thing. Where is the media.


----------



## jillian

Ravi said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> George Zimmerman Father Speaks Aabout Shooting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> New witness saw them fighting, in the grass so I'm not sure how Zimmerman can continue his claim of getting his head bashed on the sidewalk. Witness also said Zimmerman walked right past him after the shooting and appeared uninjured.
Click to expand...


his story is also that trayvon was sitting on his chest and beating him up.

i'm no expert, but i suspect if you shoot someone who's sitting on top of you, that their blood would be on your shirt...

and if his nose were broken, as he claimed, his own blood would be on him..

neither was the case insofar as could be seen in the video.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmerman had his gun concealed. The gun became exposed as Zimmerman was trying to move away from Martin as Martin was pounding his head onto the sidewalk After Martin sucker punched him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were there? I hadn't realized that.
Click to expand...


Do you have proof that he did have it out?


----------



## Ravi

jillian said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> New witness saw them fighting, in the grass so I'm not sure how Zimmerman can continue his claim of getting his head bashed on the sidewalk. Witness also said Zimmerman walked right past him after the shooting and appeared uninjured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> his story is also that trayvon was sitting on his chest and beating him up.
> 
> i'm no expert, but i suspect if you shoot someone who's sitting on top of you, that their blood would be on your shirt...
> 
> and if his nose were broken, as he claimed, his own blood would be on him..
> 
> neither was the case insofar as could be seen in the video.
Click to expand...

This is a different witness than the one you mean, I think. He was on Anderson Cooper last night. He wasn't sure who was on top and who was on the bottom but it sounded like after the shot he saw Zimmerman stand up so it sounds as if Z was on top.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

jillian said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was hearsay so it shouldn't have been posted!!!
> 
> No seriously.
> 
> His father's account seems pretty strange to me. He says Zimmerman's head was being bashed up against the sidewalk for upwards of 60 secs.
> 
> 60 secs is a LONG time to be getting your head bashed into the sidewalk. I've seen it happen for less then 15 seconds and it scared the living crap out of me to watch. I'd imagine Zimmerman would be hospitalized.
> 
> From in this video did he say Trayvon saw the gun and then say "you're going to die tonight" (paraphrased)? That's interesting.
> 
> If Trayvon WAS NOT bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement or "beating" him prior to seeing Zimmerman's gun and he began to bash Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk because he saw that Zimmerman had a gun and it looked as if Zimmerman was going to shoot him, would that have been considered self-defense in Trayvon's case?
> 
> I'd imagine if that was the case there'd be no way of knowing, but what if a witness stepped forward and claimed that that's exactly what happened? What would happen to Zimmerman? I'd imagine if you're in a one on one fight with someone and they pull out a gun, you'd do anything to save your life... correct? Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> New witness saw them fighting, in the grass so I'm not sure how Zimmerman can continue his claim of getting his head bashed on the sidewalk. Witness also said Zimmerman walked right past him after the shooting and appeared uninjured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> his story is also that trayvon was sitting on his chest and beating him up.
> 
> i'm no expert, but i suspect if you shoot someone who's sitting on top of you, that their blood would be on your shirt...
> 
> and if his nose were broken, as he claimed, his own blood would be on him..
> 
> neither was the case insofar as could be seen in the video.
Click to expand...


I'm not a expert but I do have some experience in collecting evidence from a crime seine 
The police would have taken any clothes that Zimmerman had on that had evidence on it.
There are still photo shots of that video that does show a cut on the back of Zimmerman's head, and swelling around the cheeks and nose of the facial area.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> New witness saw them fighting, in the grass so I'm not sure how Zimmerman can continue his claim of getting his head bashed on the sidewalk. Witness also said Zimmerman walked right past him after the shooting and appeared uninjured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> his story is also that trayvon was sitting on his chest and beating him up.
> 
> i'm no expert, but i suspect if you shoot someone who's sitting on top of you, that their blood would be on your shirt...
> 
> and if his nose were broken, as he claimed, his own blood would be on him..
> 
> neither was the case insofar as could be seen in the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a different witness than the one you mean, I think. He was on Anderson Cooper last night. He wasn't sure who was on top and who was on the bottom but it sounded like after the shot he saw Zimmerman stand up so it sounds as if Z was on top.
Click to expand...


Was this witness before or after the shooting became nationalized?


----------



## Ravi

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> his story is also that trayvon was sitting on his chest and beating him up.
> 
> i'm no expert, but i suspect if you shoot someone who's sitting on top of you, that their blood would be on your shirt...
> 
> and if his nose were broken, as he claimed, his own blood would be on him..
> 
> neither was the case insofar as could be seen in the video.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a different witness than the one you mean, I think. He was on Anderson Cooper last night. He wasn't sure who was on top and who was on the bottom but it sounded like after the shot he saw Zimmerman stand up so it sounds as if Z was on top.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was this witness before or after the shooting became nationalized?
Click to expand...

Haven't seen the police report so I don't know if he talked to the police at the time or not. Probably he did as the police initially wanted to charge Zimmerman.

I find it odd that you don't ask that question of other witnesses.


----------



## LilOlLady

*ZIMMERMAN; CHARGES SHOULD BE PREMEDITATED MURDER.*

Evidence that Trayvon was set up to be murdered.
1.  These a** h**** always get away  (but not tonight)
2.  I felt one of us was going to die. (and I got the gun)
3.  911 told Zimmerman to stop following Trayvon he said OK but he did not and he confronted him, not knowing he was on the phone via blue tooth. Trayvon had a bag of skittle in one hand and a Arizona tea in the other. Zimmerman had a gun. They struggled, Trayvon landed on top of Zimmerman and was crying for help. Zimmerman holding on the Trayvon, unstrapped his holster, pulled his gun and shot Trayvon mid chest but no blood on Zimmermans shirt support Trayvon standing when shot and Zimmerman on the ground? If Trayvon was shot while on top of Zimmerman there would be lots of blood on Zimmermans shirt. No blood.
Zimmerman was being held down and arms restrained but yet he was able to unstrap his holster, get his gun, bring it mid chest to Trayvon and pull the trigger. But he was not able to grab Trayvon and throw him off him? And no blood on Zimmermans shirt. Trayvon was obvious standing when shot. 
 A broken nose the next day suggest Zimmerman may have broke his own nose. Quite possible when one gets desperate. 
No time span when Trayvon was following Zimmerman and checking me out and Zimmerman took his eyes of someone checking him out? Trayvon was walking fast to get away from a crazed white man following him.
Not enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman? A dead child not enough evidence to arrest him and put him through a trial to prove his guilt or innocence?
Nothing less than charges of 1st degree premeditated murder.
If I lived in Florida, I would be packing up my car by now.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

LilOlLady said:


> *ZIMMERMAN; CHARGES SHOULD BE PREMEDITATED MURDER.*
> 
> Evidence that Trayvon was set up to be murdered.
> 1.  These a** h**** always get away  (but not tonight)
> 2.  I felt one of us was going to die. (and I got the gun)
> 3.  911 told Zimmerman to stop following Trayvon he said OK but he did not and he confronted him, not knowing he was on the phone via blue tooth. Trayvon had a bag of skittle in one hand and a Arizona tea in the other. Zimmerman had a gun. They struggled, Trayvon landed on top of Zimmerman and was crying for help. Zimmerman holding on the Trayvon, unstrapped his holster, pulled his gun and shot Trayvon mid chest but no blood on Zimmermans shirt support Trayvon standing when shot and Zimmerman on the ground? If Trayvon was shot while on top of Zimmerman there would be lots of blood on Zimmermans shirt. No blood.
> Zimmerman was being held down and arms restrained but yet he was able to unstrap his holster, get his gun, bring it mid chest to Trayvon and pull the trigger. But he was not able to grab Trayvon and throw him off him? And no blood on Zimmermans shirt. Trayvon was obvious standing when shot.
> A broken nose the next day suggest Zimmerman may have broke his own nose. Quite possible when one gets desperate.
> No time span when Trayvon was following Zimmerman and checking me out and Zimmerman took his eyes of someone checking him out? Trayvon was walking fast to get away from a crazed white man following him.
> Not enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman? A dead child not enough evidence to arrest him and put him through a trial to prove his guilt or innocence?
> Nothing less than charges of 1st degree premeditated murder.
> If I lived in Florida, I would be packing up my car by now.



In your mind that works in reality and witness statements it does not.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a different witness than the one you mean, I think. He was on Anderson Cooper last night. He wasn't sure who was on top and who was on the bottom but it sounded like after the shot he saw Zimmerman stand up so it sounds as if Z was on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was this witness before or after the shooting became nationalized?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haven't seen the police report so I don't know if he talked to the police at the time or not. Probably he did as the police initially wanted to charge Zimmerman.
> 
> I find it odd that you don't ask that question of other witnesses.
Click to expand...


This happen in February any witness they have would be known during that time any new witness that comes forward should be looked at as suspicious.


----------



## Emma

OODA_Loop said:


> 911 tapes dont support your claims and show he didnt follow him.


The call to police + where the shooting took place shows that Zimmerman _did_ follow Martin.


----------



## koshergrl

Ravi said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> New witness saw them fighting, in the grass so I'm not sure how Zimmerman can continue his claim of getting his head bashed on the sidewalk. Witness also said Zimmerman walked right past him after the shooting and appeared uninjured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> his story is also that trayvon was sitting on his chest and beating him up.
> 
> i'm no expert, but i suspect if you shoot someone who's sitting on top of you, that their blood would be on your shirt...
> 
> and if his nose were broken, as he claimed, his own blood would be on him..
> 
> neither was the case insofar as could be seen in the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a different witness than the one you mean, I think. He was on Anderson Cooper last night. He wasn't sure who was on top and who was on the bottom but it sounded like after the shot he saw Zimmerman stand up so it sounds as if Z was on top.
Click to expand...

 
You guys watch way too much tv.

We all know that when you shoot someone on top of you that you're pinned to the ground and covered with blood, after all. Cuz that's what happens on the movies.

You DON'T always get a gushing bloody nose when your nose is broken, and witnesses have said his nose was bloody anyway. My nose didn't bleed when I broke it, and my nose bleeds on a regular basis without being broken. 

But keep with the completely farcical fantasies.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 911 tapes dont support your claims and show he didnt follow him.
> 
> 
> 
> The call to police + where the shooting took place shows that Zimmerman _did_ follow Martin.
Click to expand...


Yes it did when Martin ran Zimmerman went after him, Zimmerman had already identified martin as someone who was acting strange looked like he was on something.

However when Zimmerman was asked to not follow Martin he stopped and went back to his vehicle waiting for the police to arrive.

Ask yourself this  why would Zimmerman shoot Martin knowing that the police were in route?


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 911 tapes dont support your claims and show he didnt follow him.
> 
> 
> 
> The call to police + where the shooting took place shows that Zimmerman _did_ follow Martin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it did when Martin ran Zimmerman went after him, Zimmerman had already identified martin as someone who was acting strange looked like he was on something.
> 
> *However when Zimmerman was asked to not follow Martin he stopped and went back to his vehicle waiting for the police to arrive.*
> 
> Ask yourself this  why would Zimmerman shoot Martin knowing that the police were in route?
Click to expand...

Where are you getting that?  On the tape, I hear Zimmerman saying "OK" when the 911 operator told him they don't need him to follow Martin, but I would have to assume that meant Zimmerman stopped.

I'm not convinced that assumption is a sound one.

Is there something else to indicate Zimmerman went back to his car?


----------



## koshergrl

I thought he stopped because his huffing and puffing stopped when he said okay.

He sounded like he was running or jogging, then he said okay, and that sound stops. And he says he lost him.

I thought he went back towards his car because I thought the kid was killed near his car, but I haven't seen any diagrams or anything.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The call to police + where the shooting took place shows that Zimmerman _did_ follow Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it did when Martin ran Zimmerman went after him, Zimmerman had already identified martin as someone who was acting strange looked like he was on something.
> 
> *However when Zimmerman was asked to not follow Martin he stopped and went back to his vehicle waiting for the police to arrive.*
> 
> Ask yourself this  why would Zimmerman shoot Martin knowing that the police were in route?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where are you getting that?  On the tape, I hear Zimmerman saying "OK" when the 911 operator told him they don't need him to follow Martin, but I would have to assume that meant Zimmerman stopped.
> 
> I'm not convinced that assumption is a sound one.
> 
> Is there something else to indicate Zimmerman went back to his car?
Click to expand...


He knew the police were coming and was going to meet them at certain location. Common sense would tell you that he would not continue to look for Martin knowing he was to supposed to meet with police in another location.


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it did when Martin ran Zimmerman went after him, Zimmerman had already identified martin as someone who was acting strange looked like he was on something.
> 
> *However when Zimmerman was asked to not follow Martin he stopped and went back to his vehicle waiting for the police to arrive.*
> 
> Ask yourself this  why would Zimmerman shoot Martin knowing that the police were in route?
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you getting that?  On the tape, I hear Zimmerman saying "OK" when the 911 operator told him they don't need him to follow Martin, but I would have to assume that meant Zimmerman stopped.
> 
> I'm not convinced that assumption is a sound one.
> 
> Is there something else to indicate Zimmerman went back to his car?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He knew the police were coming and was going to meet them at certain location. Common sense would tell you that he would not continue to look for Martin knowing he was to supposed to meet with police in another location.
Click to expand...

See, I'm still not comfortable in the soundness of that assumption, especially when the 911 operator tried to arrange for a meeting place between him and the cops.  Zimmerman would not agree to meet them when the 911 operator suggested the clubhouse (I believe it was the clubhouse), rather he told the operator to have the cops call him when they got there.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you getting that?  On the tape, I hear Zimmerman saying "OK" when the 911 operator told him they don't need him to follow Martin, but I would have to assume that meant Zimmerman stopped.
> 
> I'm not convinced that assumption is a sound one.
> 
> Is there something else to indicate Zimmerman went back to his car?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He knew the police were coming and was going to meet them at certain location. Common sense would tell you that he would not continue to look for Martin knowing he was to supposed to meet with police in another location.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See, I'm still not comfortable in the soundness of that assumption, especially when the 911 operator tried to arrange for a meeting place between him and the cops.  Zimmerman would not agree to meet them, rather he told the operator to have the cops call him when they got there.
Click to expand...


Here is the best version of the 911 call with no bleeps.

You can tell when he leaves his vehicle and tell when he stops running and does not hesitate telling them where he his he just didn't want to give his home address out.


----------



## koshergrl

It sounds like he says "oh crap I don't want to get the hell out" or "I want to get the hell out" "I don't know where this kid is"

Anyway, interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if they try the guy..I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. There just isn't enough for us to know. If this is all the investigators have, it's not much for an indictment.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 911 tapes dont support your claims and show he didnt follow him.
> 
> 
> 
> The call to police + where the shooting took place shows that Zimmerman _did_ follow Martin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it did when Martin ran Zimmerman went after him, Zimmerman had already identified martin as someone who was acting strange looked like he was on something.
> 
> However when Zimmerman was asked to not follow Martin he stopped and went back to his vehicle waiting for the police to arrive.
> 
> Ask yourself this  why would Zimmerman shoot Martin knowing that the police were in route?
Click to expand...

No idea. 

_but_ if you look at a map where he said he was parked (and would meet the cops ) vs where the shooting took place, it's obvious he continued to follow Martin after being told not to.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> The call to police + where the shooting took place shows that Zimmerman _did_ follow Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it did when Martin ran Zimmerman went after him, Zimmerman had already identified martin as someone who was acting strange looked like he was on something.
> 
> However when Zimmerman was asked to not follow Martin he stopped and went back to his vehicle waiting for the police to arrive.
> 
> Ask yourself this  why would Zimmerman shoot Martin knowing that the police were in route?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No idea.
> 
> _but_ if you look at a map where he said he was parked (and would meet the cops ) vs where the shooting took place, it's obvious he continued to follow Martin after being told not to.
Click to expand...


What map?


----------



## saveliberty

Saveliberty's Zimmerman/Martin policy starting today until the report comes out:  No more theories or comments that might put either person's character in a bad light.


----------



## koshergrl

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it did when Martin ran Zimmerman went after him, Zimmerman had already identified martin as someone who was acting strange looked like he was on something.
> 
> However when Zimmerman was asked to not follow Martin he stopped and went back to his vehicle waiting for the police to arrive.
> 
> Ask yourself this why would Zimmerman shoot Martin knowing that the police were in route?
> 
> 
> 
> No idea.
> 
> _but_ if you look at a map where he said he was parked (and would meet the cops ) vs where the shooting took place, it's obvious he continued to follow Martin after being told not to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What map?
Click to expand...

 
Besides which, it wouldn't show he followed him AFTER he said he'd stopped, because you don't know where he was when he lost Martin or how far he'd moved.

Fail.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> Saveliberty's Zimmerman/Martin policy starting today until the report comes out: No more theories or comments that might put either person's character in a bad light.


 
Yes, I opted out a day or two ago.

You can see how that went.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> Saveliberty's Zimmerman/Martin policy starting today until the report comes out:  No more theories or comments that might put either person's character in a bad light.



Maybe this discussion was good it appears it's made you more neutral instead of aggressive against Zimmerman. If Zimmerman is guilty it will be found out.,


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> No idea.
> 
> _but_ if you look at a map where he said he was parked (and would meet the cops ) vs where the shooting took place, it's obvious he continued to follow Martin after being told not to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What map?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides which, it wouldn't show he followed him AFTER he said he'd stopped, because you don't know where he was when he lost Martin or how far he'd moved.
> 
> Fail.
Click to expand...


I know but I hadn't seen any map if there is one I would like to see it.


----------



## uptownlivin90

The Gadfly said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uptown, with many self-defense statutes, that's how it works. This particular Florida law looks different, in that all Zimmerman has to show is that he acted lawfully, up until the moment he drew the gun and fired. That's a CRUCIAL distinction.  With most old-style (common law) self defense statutes, Zimmerman would have to show that he (1) did not initiate the confrontation  unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable, and (4) that he was unable to flee without unreasonably exposing himself to threat of death or serious bodily injury.  The standard for "reasonable" is normally ordinary common sense. That's how the law we have here in SC works. Now it appears, that under the applicable Florida law, Zimmerman only has to show one of those things (number 3, above) and that he was where he was lawfully, and was not in violation of another criminal statute. Not only is that a lower burden of proof; on top of it, the "lawfully present" and not acting  "unlawfully" language seems to put the burden of proving that part back on the state, as a person is normally PRESUMED to be acting lawfully, absent a showing of a violation of (another) statute. By that standard , an act may be stupid, or even reckless, without being "unlawful". That part of it  may well be why the State Attorney who initially reviewed the case refused to charge it, and if I understand correctly that this is a fairly new statute, may also account for some confusion on the part of the Sanford police as to whether they thought Zimmerman's actions appeared to be self-defense. To put it another way, under the law in SC, he likely would NOT be able to make an affirmative showing of self defense; where under the Florida law, as written, the prosecution has a FAR more difficult case. I really think, from a lot of comments I've seen here, that not quite fully appreciating the difference has created considerable misunderstanding of why the case wasn't charged in the beginning, and why it's not a given that it will (or even should be) charged now, unless new evidence comes to light. To further complicate matters, the more recent the statute, the less guidance there is, in the way of established judicial precedent in interpreting it. This whole thing may be less about race, or recklessness, than about confusion over a law that looks extremely loose in its wording. Ever heard of making something so simple it becomes confusing and complicated? That may be the case here; not so much what the law says, as what it DOESN'T say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, thank you.
> 
> That's really interesting, and extremely strange. I was under the impression that only number 4 of the listed criteria is no longer necessary under Florida Law. I had assumed 1-3 were still in order, that he would have to prove that:
> 
> *(1) did not initiate the confrontation unreasonably, (2) that he did not further aggravate the situation unreasonably,  (3) that his fear of death or serious bodily injury was reasonable,*
> 
> If Zimmerman started the confrontation unreasonably that would fall under #1. If he did pull out his gun and Trayvon began beating on him because of that that's #2. But then Trayvon would be able to claim self-defense too because #3 is all that applies, either party could have started the fight, aggravated it, and then killed the other and claimed self-defense... if what you're saying is correct. *ouch my brain hurts*
> 
> In that case, I don't see what on Earth Zimmerman or Trayvon could have done that was illegal in the state of Florida. If your characterization of the law is correct... that law is absolutely insane, and I'm JUST NOW realizing how insane it actually is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is strange, Uptown. You see, what the legislature was TRYING to do, was simply get rid of the "duty to retreat"; the idea was an extension of the "castle doctrine" from the home to the outside. The idea was that the old common law "duty to retreat" could put an unreasonable burden on someone trying to defend himself (primarily against lethal force). Well and good, and in and of itself, there's nothing really wrong with that. The problem comes in because of the way this particular law tried to do that; inadvertently or not, it actually does quite a bit more. Basically it seems to extend the concept of self-defense (to include use of lethal force,yet) to any case where someone is attacked, without having first broken any other law himself! That superficially sounds OK too, UNTIL you consider all the potential ramifications; at which point it's like intending to open a narrow gateway, and instead creating something you could literally drive a semi through! That IS crazy, and the more one looks at it, the crazier it looks. All I can say is, it's not the first time a bad criminal statute was created with good intentions, and a poor choice of words. *Do you remember a case in GA a few years back, where the legislature had passed a new child sodomy statute that made oral sex with a minor under 16 child molestation?* The problem was, that the law was worded in such a way, that it could also allow another minor who had oral sex with an underage partner to be charged with an offense that carried something like a fifteen year minimum sentence That was clearly not the intent, but that's what the law said, and sure enough, a prosecutor charged a 17 year old with this for getting oral sex from a sixteen year old at a party. He wasn't,  as I recall, even chargeable with statutory rape IF he had intercourse with the girl, which he did not (not enough age difference, by law) but the prosecutor used the child molestation statute to throw the book at him over a BJ.. Just to compound that, the legislature fixed the defective language that made that possible the next year, but failed to make it retroactive, so the kid's sentence stood, the prosecutor stood his ground, in spite of the obvious injustice of the thing, and it eventually took a lot of outcry, and the state supreme court, no less, to right the outrageous wrong that had been done. Badly written law, alas, has unforeseen consequences, and I'm afraid that may be the case in this current instance. The problem is, you can fix the statute, but there's no way to make the fix retroactive to this case; it is a good deal easier to revise a law to let someone OUT of jail , than revise one, to put someone IN jail-I don't think the latter would pass constitutional muster, among other things.
Click to expand...


Yes I do remember that case in the state of Georgia.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saveliberty's Zimmerman/Martin policy starting today until the report comes out:  No more theories or comments that might put either person's character in a bad light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this discussion was good it appears it's made you more neutral instead of aggressive against Zimmerman. If Zimmerman is guilty it will be found out.,
Click to expand...


Your speculating AGAIN.  Death by violence should be throughly investigated.  Media should stay out of active investigations.  Florida's law needs to be changed.


----------



## uptownlivin90

The Gadfly said:


> Uptown, there's a link to the statute in the earlier portion of one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads. If you can find it, look at the language yourself. C _Clayton_Jones posted a legal analysis of what it says as well,  it's either in this thread or the other oldest one. Read those, and see if you agree with me. Yes, in this case, I think either party really could have killed the other, and then claimed self defense, *so long as there was no evidence he attacked the other first*. Obviously, if that's the case, this law HAS to be changed.



Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility? 

From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.


----------



## saveliberty

Florida's law is what makes this most important going forward.


----------



## Si modo

uptownlivin90 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uptown, there's a link to the statute in the earlier portion of one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads. If you can find it, look at the language yourself. C _Clayton_Jones posted a legal analysis of what it says as well,  it's either in this thread or the other oldest one. Read those, and see if you agree with me. Yes, in this case, I think either party really could have killed the other, and then claimed self defense, *so long as there was no evidence he attacked the other first*. Obviously, if that's the case, this law HAS to be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility?
> 
> From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.
Click to expand...

Exactly.  The Florida law flipped the script.

It's a bad law.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uptown, there's a link to the statute in the earlier portion of one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads. If you can find it, look at the language yourself. C _Clayton_Jones posted a legal analysis of what it says as well,  it's either in this thread or the other oldest one. Read those, and see if you agree with me. Yes, in this case, I think either party really could have killed the other, and then claimed self defense, *so long as there was no evidence he attacked the other first*. Obviously, if that's the case, this law HAS to be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility?
> 
> From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.
Click to expand...


In the 911 call Zimmerman says Martin ran and you can tell by the sounds in the video that statement is true.
You can hear the ding ding of key's in the ignition you can hear Zimmerman slam/ shut his vehicle door, you can hear the huffing and puffing of Zimmerman's Breath. Zimmerman also says he doesn't know where he is. Which would leave a normal person to believe Martin did run
Now Martin ran he should have kept going but he didn't but came back to where Zimmerman was and confronted him which made Martin the aggressor.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uptown, there's a link to the statute in the earlier portion of one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads. If you can find it, look at the language yourself. C _Clayton_Jones posted a legal analysis of what it says as well,  it's either in this thread or the other oldest one. Read those, and see if you agree with me. Yes, in this case, I think either party really could have killed the other, and then claimed self defense, *so long as there was no evidence he attacked the other first*. Obviously, if that's the case, this law HAS to be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility?
> 
> From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly.  The Florida law flipped the script.
> 
> It's a bad law.
Click to expand...


I don't think it is. A person has a right to defend themselves no matter where they are if the threat warrants using force with force.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Florida's law is what makes this most important going forward.


Why?  Laws are written and revised in legislatures, not in courts.

I agree that the attention is good for changing bad laws, but the courts have a different responsibility.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saveliberty's Zimmerman/Martin policy starting today until the report comes out:  No more theories or comments that might put either person's character in a bad light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this discussion was good it appears it's made you more neutral instead of aggressive against Zimmerman. If Zimmerman is guilty it will be found out.,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your speculating AGAIN.  Death by violence should be throughly investigated.  Media should stay out of active investigations.  Florida's law needs to be changed.
Click to expand...


There's nothing wrong with the law.


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility?
> 
> From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  The Florida law flipped the script.
> 
> It's a bad law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it is. A person has a right to defend themselves no matter where they are if the threat warrants using force with force.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more with you on that.  Most self-defense laws cover that already.


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Florida's law is what makes this most important going forward.
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  Laws are written and revised in legislatures, not in courts.
> 
> I agree that the attention is good for changing bad laws, but the courts have a different responsibility.
Click to expand...


Did I say the courts should change this law?  Nope.  I said the law should be changed.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this discussion was good it appears it's made you more neutral instead of aggressive against Zimmerman. If Zimmerman is guilty it will be found out.,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your speculating AGAIN.  Death by violence should be throughly investigated.  Media should stay out of active investigations.  Florida's law needs to be changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with the law.
Click to expand...


Oh really?  Then why can police be charged with excessive force?  Most states still have reasonable actions law.  The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Florida's law is what makes this most important going forward.
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  Laws are written and revised in legislatures, not in courts.
> 
> I agree that the attention is good for changing bad laws, but the courts have a different responsibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I say the courts should change this law?  Nope.  I said the law should be changed.
Click to expand...

OK.  Let's review:  I said the law is bad.  You said that is the reason this should go forward.

Going forward means going to court.

What effect is going to court going to have on changing the law?


----------



## paulitician

She had a name. Too bad this shameful racist Democrat opportunist forgot it...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxs5Woss__k]Rep. Corrine Brown has a Meltdown - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  Laws are written and revised in legislatures, not in courts.
> 
> I agree that the attention is good for changing bad laws, but the courts have a different responsibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I say the courts should change this law?  Nope.  I said the law should be changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK.  Let's review:  I said the law is bad.  You said that is the reason this should go forward.
> 
> Going forward means going to court.
> 
> What effect is going to court going to have on changing the law?
Click to expand...


The case going forward will highlight the issues created by this bad law.  The legislature will hopefully recognize the problems and correct the law.  If you want a fight, go find one where there actually is one.  Thanks.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paulitician said:


> She had a name. Too bad this shameful racist Democrat opportunist forgot it...
> 
> 
> Rep. Corrine Brown has a Meltdown - YouTube



Some people aren't foolish enough to accept her bullshit. All she's doing is pandering for votes. She doesn't give a damn about the children unless they vote for her.


----------



## Si modo

paulitician said:


> She had a name. Too bad this shameful racist Democrat opportunist forgot it...
> 
> 
> Rep. Corrine Brown has a Meltdown - YouTube


Oh.......

my.......

Gawd!

What a fucking tool she is.



Good for the CNN reporter!    (She likely got reprimanded for that, too. )


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did I say the courts should change this law?  Nope.  I said the law should be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's review:  I said the law is bad.  You said that is the reason this should go forward.
> 
> Going forward means going to court.
> 
> What effect is going to court going to have on changing the law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case going forward will highlight the issues created by this bad law.  The legislature will hopefully recognize the problems and correct the law.  If you want a fight, go find one where there actually is one.  Thanks.
Click to expand...

Damn, you're getting touchy again.  

Asking for clarification is not indicative of one desiring a fight.  Not in my world, at least.

Regardless, I understand what you're saying, but the legislature has already announced that they will review this law.  

So, if the reason to go to court is to effect that end, that end is already effected.  As far as that is concerned, going to court is a waste of time and taxpayer money.


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's review:  I said the law is bad.  You said that is the reason this should go forward.
> 
> Going forward means going to court.
> 
> What effect is going to court going to have on changing the law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The case going forward will highlight the issues created by this bad law.  The legislature will hopefully recognize the problems and correct the law.  If you want a fight, go find one where there actually is one.  Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Damn, you're getting touchy again.
> 
> Asking for clarification is not indicative of one desiring a fight.  Not in my world, at least.
> 
> Regardless, I understand what you're saying, but the legislature has already announced that they will review this law.
> 
> So, if the reason to go to court is to effect that end, that end is already effected.  As far as that is concerned, *going to court is a waste of time and taxpayer money*.
Click to expand...


So you're not interested in where the evidence ends up pointing?


----------



## uptownlivin90

KissMy said:


> This Florida law works just fine.



It's only been in effect for a short amount of time. I want to see it demonstrated in this case more, but honestly the implications look extremely dangerous to me, the more I look into it. I think the self-defense laws in most other states work pretty well.



KissMy said:


> If Martin's body does not have any damage as some have suggested is the case, it proves Zimmerman did not landed any punches. Then there is no way Zimmerman threw the first punch & started the fight.



That's not necessarily the case. It just proves that the struggle may not have been the death match Zimmerman's father and brother are portraying this to be. I say father and brother because I have yet to hear actual statements from Zimmerman about his version of what actually happened that night. Witnesses do not seem to support a fight to the death taking place. There were loud screams and WE DON'T know who those screams were coming from, I assume they were from Zimmerman, but if they were we know he was yelling at a kid (who was 13 years old btw and I thought that was strange) to help him and I think another guy who said he was calling the police. Let's say Zimmerman's goal was detaining Trayvon to keep him from "getting away". Maybe his screams were less blood curdling screams out of agony and more screams for assistance in making sure the youngin doesn't escape.



KissMy said:


> Zimmerman has injuries consistent with his statements.



Zimmerman has not made a statement that has been released to the public that I'm aware of, so I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. His injuries are consistent with the released police report, witness testimony, and the video showing minor injuries not consistent with the "head being banged into cement" narrative.



KissMy said:


> *He was sucker punched by Martin in the nose, went down. Martin jump on top of him, grabbed his head and slammed it against the concrete* while Zimmerman screamed "HELP!". Verified by eye-witness & 911 tape.



We do not have any evidence that the emboldened part happened at all.

It is not in the police report.
No witness has come forward with a story remotely suggesting any of that happened.

Zimmerman probably was the one screaming "help", witnesses verify this as do 911 tapes, however it's still held in contention. It's far more likely the yells for help are Zimmerman.



KissMy said:


> If Zimmerman intended to take Martin out he would not have called 911 to set himself up as the vigilante stalker & Martin as standing his ground.



We cannot assume this at all. We don't know Zimmerman's mental state at the time of the shooting. To me he doesn't look intoxicated in the police surveillance video but I'm not an expert at determining that.

Drunk or not though, people do weird things. Plus why wouldn't he call the cops? He's not going to apprehend this kid by himself, lock the kid up in his basement, put him on a leash like a dog. He knows cops are on their way, but while scuffling on the ground it's a possibility that he didn't think about the cops. Strangely enough, Zimmerman had it in his mind that this "guy" was going to get away because "they always get away". Could it be possible that Zimmerman has called the cops before and felt like they were slow to respond? Or that the cops are used to his calls for some reason about strange kids walking around the neighborhood and take their time coming? In such a case maybe Zimmerman felt the NEED to apprehend this kid.

Those are SERIOUS questions by the way. 



KissMy said:


> Timing the finding of Martin, getting him to attack with out someone seeing it & when to shoot Martin between hanging up on 911 & the police arriving would have been extraordinary. If Zimmerman were to set Martin up he would have just made it look like he was suddenly attacked by Martin like a mugging.



I never asserted Zimmerman set Martin up for the record. I feel that it's a 50-50 chance Martin attacked Zimmerman or Zimmerman attacked Martin. For both there are motives. Zimmerman didn't want Martin to "get away". Martin had no clue who this random guy following him was. It's also a possibility Martin's just a thug who saw a guy get out of his car and thought this was a chance to randomly rob someone on his way back from 7-11. I find that last part a little bit hard to believe, but it's a possibility.



KissMy said:


> If Martin was innocent then why did he run when Zimmerman first approached?



Let's get one thing straight for the record. There's no evidence that Trayvon Martin did anything illegal on his way back from 711. If we're going to go on and on about innocent until prove guilty, then we have to have the same respect for the kid. He wasn't doing anything illegal that we know of.

We know Zimmerman said he looked suspicious. I really do doubt this however, and the big reason why is nobody else that we know of called the police or even has come forward to say they saw Trayvon Martin and thought he was suspicious. I've always wondered, why? It's a pretty large neighborhood and it seems like the neighbors are pretty nosey. Witnesses have been coming forward about everything BUT seeing the kid act suspiciously and I have to ask why Zimmerman was the only person who saw the kid and thought he was worth following.

As for Trayvon running. Let's cut the crap and stop acting like Zimmerman looks like some useless weakling. He does not. I don't know how "Hispanic" he actually looked that night, but if I'm an African American male, which I am, and I'm by myself in a neighborhood that I'm unfamiliar with, which I have been, and I see a man looking at me talking on his cell phone and he looks hispanic, there's a good chance I'm not staying there that long.

That should be self-explanatory.



KissMy said:


> Also why did Martin sneak back up on Zimmerman as he was heading back to his vehicle?


 
That is allegedly Zimmerman's account.

That's ONE account of what MAY have happened that night. There's no evidence to suggest that that happened or did not happen. So let's not make it sound like Zimmerman's word is Bible here.



KissMy said:


> The reason Martin was there is because he was in the middle of serving his school suspension for transporting drugs. His on-line identity is that of a extremely violent gangster thug rap song. He was in possession of jewelry that was not his & refused to say who's it was. He has tattoos before the age 17. He was not even scared of the gun  that was exposed as Zimmerman tried to retreat, but in-fact tried to take it from Zimmerman. Young Martin has been is this violent type of situation before.



Most of this is as completely irrelevant as bringing up Zimmerman's criminal record. If the story that the kid had jewelry in his bookbag checks out, that's the only thing that could make this case any different because it'd lead us to the conclusion that it's very possible that he was casing the houses or at least thinking about it. I personally believe it's a 70-30 chance that he was. I have my own personal reasons why I think he was actually a burglar. I think it's more likely he was moreso looking around in a "what if" mode. I don't think he actually was planning on breaking into the houses, because he lived hours away from Sanford. Could be wrong though. It's all speculation on BOTH of our parts.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The case going forward will highlight the issues created by this bad law.  The legislature will hopefully recognize the problems and correct the law.  If you want a fight, go find one where there actually is one.  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you're getting touchy again.
> 
> Asking for clarification is not indicative of one desiring a fight.  Not in my world, at least.
> 
> Regardless, I understand what you're saying, but the legislature has already announced that they will review this law.
> 
> So, if the reason to go to court is to effect that end, that end is already effected.  As far as that is concerned, *going to court is a waste of time and taxpayer money*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you're not interested in where the evidence ends up pointing?
Click to expand...

The phrase, "As far as[changing law] is concerned", confused you so.

That's pretty sad.


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you're getting touchy again.
> 
> Asking for clarification is not indicative of one desiring a fight.  Not in my world, at least.
> 
> Regardless, I understand what you're saying, but the legislature has already announced that they will review this law.
> 
> So, if the reason to go to court is to effect that end, that end is already effected.  As far as that is concerned, *going to court is a waste of time and taxpayer money*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're not interested in where the evidence ends up pointing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The phrase, "As far as[changing law] is concerned", confused you so.
> 
> That's pretty sad.
Click to expand...


Yes, I thought the same thing when you tried it on me earlier.  Just checking.


----------



## Si modo

saveliberty said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're not interested in where the evidence ends up pointing?
> 
> 
> 
> The phrase, "As far as[changing law] is concerned", confused you so.
> 
> That's pretty sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I thought the same thing when you tried it on me earlier.  Just checking.
Click to expand...

So, when you said you didn't want to fight, you were lying.  Obviously.





saveliberty said:


> Florida's law is what makes this most important going forward.






You're being an ass, now, just to be an ass.

When you can be less defensive and emotional, I'll take your posts seriously.


----------



## uptownlivin90

bigrebnc1775 said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uptown, there's a link to the statute in the earlier portion of one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads. If you can find it, look at the language yourself. C _Clayton_Jones posted a legal analysis of what it says as well,  it's either in this thread or the other oldest one. Read those, and see if you agree with me. Yes, in this case, I think either party really could have killed the other, and then claimed self defense, *so long as there was no evidence he attacked the other first*. Obviously, if that's the case, this law HAS to be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility?
> 
> From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the 911 call Zimmerman says Martin ran and you can tell by the sounds in the video that statement is true.
> You can hear the ding ding of key's in the ignition you can hear Zimmerman slam/ shut his vehicle door, you can hear the huffing and puffing of Zimmerman's Breath. *Zimmerman also says he doesn't know where he is*. Which would leave a normal person to believe Martin did run
> Now Martin ran he should have kept going but he didn't but came back to where Zimmerman was and confronted him which made Martin the aggressor.
Click to expand...


I don't think we can assume Zimmerman went back to his car. He might have kept looking, just not running. Could have kept following the general direction.

The "I don't know where this kid is" comment could be interpreted two ways. 

One: He doesn't know where the kid is so he gave up.

Two: He's still actually looking for this kid.


----------



## Foxfyre

Uptown is right.  Martin's background and Zimmerman's background have nothing to do with what happened in this particular incident.

All we really know is this:

Martin did not live in the neighborhood and in his hoodie was likely not dressed as most people in that neighborhood dressed.   He was on the street at night carrying something and any one of us could easily think that looked out of the ordinary or out of place.   Any one of us serving on neighborhood watch patrol would likely have given Martin a second look.  And, if there had been recent burglaries in the area might well have called in a 'suspicious person' report.

And it would have been a normal thing for Zimmerman to follow Martin to see what he was up to.  Our local neighborhood watch guys do the same thing if they think something looks suspicious.

Did Martin's dad have a cell phone with him?   We don't know.  If he did, it would have been more believable that if Martin was worried about Zimmerman, he would have called his dad instead of his girlfriend to express that concern.  I can, however, see Martin calling his girlfriend to pass the time on his walk and mentioning that this guy was following him.

Was Zimmerman's version of the story the way it happened?  We don't know that either.  But 'false reports" and speculation  in the media and on message boards aren't helping anybody get any closer to the truth.

At the end of the day, a young man is tragically dead.  His parents are grieving and understandably angry and don't deserve the pain they are going through.

And the man who shot him may have indeed acted in self defense and that will be the final judgment, but his parents are already being terrorized by celebrities tweeting their address to the world.  They don't deserve that either.   Their lives will likely never be the same whether or not the Grand Jury determines to acquit or indict.  And if the verdict is to indict, they and their son have a long, painful, expensive legal process ahead of them.  If Zimmerman is judged guilty, then hopefully justice will be served.

But if Zimmerman is judged innocent he will still be a marked man, will still have people accusing him and wanting him dead, and he will likely never again be able to live without looking over his shoulder.

And that isn't justice.


----------



## GUNSIDEAUG

Trayvon Martin's mother moves to trademark phrases that have become rallying cries in wake of son's death - NY Daily News


----------



## saveliberty

Si modo said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The phrase, "As far as[changing law] is concerned", confused you so.
> 
> That's pretty sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I thought the same thing when you tried it on me earlier.  Just checking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, when you said you didn't want to fight, you were lying.  Obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Florida's law is what makes this most important going forward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're being an ass, now, just to be an ass.
> 
> When you can be less defensive and emotional, I'll take your posts seriously.
Click to expand...


How you take a post is entirely up to you.  Perhaps when your in a less offensive mood you'll reread the posts and think differently.  I typically reply as I am originally addressed.


----------



## koshergrl

Si, get rid of that offensive mood, HAHAHA

Ok, I get it, saveliberty just doesn't have a good handle on the English language.


----------



## uptownlivin90

GUNSIDEAUG said:


> Trayvon Martin's mother moves to trademark phrases that have become rallying cries in wake of son's death - NY Daily News



:Rolls eyes: That's standard procedure.

She won't be making any money off of her son's death.

The point of the trademark is to insure that nobody else makes money off of his death. People will make a buck off of a tragedy quickly, this is absolutely standard procedure to protect the name of the dead. 

Nothing to see here folks... back to the actual case...


----------



## The Gadfly

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility? *
> 
> From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the 911 call Zimmerman says Martin ran and you can tell by the sounds in the video that statement is true.
> You can hear the ding ding of key's in the ignition you can hear Zimmerman slam/ shut his vehicle door, you can hear the huffing and puffing of Zimmerman's Breath. *Zimmerman also says he doesn't know where he is*. Which would leave a normal person to believe Martin did run
> Now Martin ran he should have kept going but he didn't but came back to where Zimmerman was and confronted him which made Martin the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think we can assume Zimmerman went back to his car. He might have kept looking, just not running. Could have kept following the general direction.
> 
> The "I don't know where this kid is" comment could be interpreted two ways.
> 
> One: He doesn't know where the kid is so he gave up.
> 
> Two: He's still actually looking for this kid.
Click to expand...


Uptown, I'll take the bolded question first; in an instance like this one *it became an "attack" at the point at which one party physically assaulted the other*, since assault is an "unlawful act" by statute.  It *could* have become an "attack", if the first "unlawful act" had been unlawfully presenting a weapon, making an unlawful verbal threat (example:"I'm gonna kill you!") or an unlawful verbal demand (example:: "Give me your wallet!"). We have no evidence that any of those three things actually happened, that we know of, so we are left with physical assault as the initiating "unlawful act".

Your earlier post on this page is a very thorough and rational analysis, by the way-one of the more sane commentaries I've seen so far. Thanks for that.

On the self defense law (common law type) It's possible to mount a successful defense under that; in fact, it quite often happens.  It could have happened in this situation under just slightly different circumstances from what actually went down. Suppose Party A is on Neighborhood Watch. He notices Party B, walking in the dark, looking around,. From that perspective there are two reasonable assumptions-party B is unfamiliar with the area, visiting, maybe, or just lost, or, Party B is casing the area (there have been a number of recent burglaries). Party A  gets out of his car, walks over to Party B, and says "Hi. I don't think I've seen you before. Are you lost? Can I help you"? At that point, Party B reacts with hostility; he lashes out verbally, then while Party A is just standing there, taken aback, Party B suddenly punches him in the face, knocks him down, and begins beating him. Party A tries to defend himself, but Party B overpowers him, and continues the assault. Party A yells for help, but no one responds. Party A is carrying, concealed, with  a permit, and in desperation, fatally shoots Party B. THAT meets all the requirements for self defense. Party A acted reasonably in approaching Party B; he did nothing physically or verbally which could be reasonably expected to  provoke Party B; Party B attacked without reasonable provocation, AND continued the assault, leading Party A to reasonably fear that Party B is either going to seriously injure or even kill Party A. Party A then draws his weapon, and shoots Party B. If all the evidence backs up Party A's account of the incident, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, a coroner's inquest might well conclude that Party B's death was the result of justifiable homicide, by reason of self defense. That might be the end of it, then and there, or Party A might go to trial (if he has a smart attorney, depending on the statute and precedent in his state, he might even REQUEST a trial, just to legally clear himself beyond all doubt). The trial proceeding would be a pro forma affair, quite possibly with a judge instructing a directed verdict of acquittal, on statutory grounds. Remember what "reasonable" means; ordinary common sense. Of course, if this incident had happened that way, there most likely would have never been a fight, much less a shooting; the hypothetical example is simply of a set of actions that WOULD have met the test of common law self defense in a similar situation.


----------



## The Gadfly

See, we can have a civil discussion, when we all try to act like adults. What a surprise!


----------



## Dick Tuck

KissMy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No - The boy caused his own death by attempting to kill Zimmerman & take his gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zimmerman had his gun concealed. The gun became exposed as Zimmerman was trying to move away from Martin as Martin was pounding his head onto the sidewalk After Martin sucker punched him.
Click to expand...


What are you omnipotent?  How do you know he didn't flash the gun, and Trayvon felt threatened and needed to defend himself?  Did he have a front holster?

What would you do if some dude started stalking you, and when you finally confront him, he flashes a gun, even if it's still holstered?


----------



## Ravi

The Gadfly said:


> since assault is an "unlawful act" by statute.


Not in Florida under the stand your ground defense. Stand your ground gives you permission to assault someone if you think that you are in danger or to recover stolen property, stop someone in the act of vandalism, burglary, etc.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility?
> 
> From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the 911 call Zimmerman says Martin ran and you can tell by the sounds in the video that statement is true.
> You can hear the ding ding of key's in the ignition you can hear Zimmerman slam/ shut his vehicle door, you can hear the huffing and puffing of Zimmerman's Breath. *Zimmerman also says he doesn't know where he is*. Which would leave a normal person to believe Martin did run
> Now Martin ran he should have kept going but he didn't but came back to where Zimmerman was and confronted him which made Martin the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think we can assume Zimmerman went back to his car. He might have kept looking, just not running. Could have kept following the general direction.
> 
> The "I don't know where this kid is" comment could be interpreted two ways.
> 
> One: He doesn't know where the kid is so he gave up.
> 
> Two: He's still actually looking for this kid.
Click to expand...


We are both assuming if that's your argument. He was told he didn't need to follow Martin and acknowledged it by saying OK. If he didn't know the police were on the way you might have a point. But he knew they were in route and he did have an  ambition to be a police officer and would do just about anything to look good to them.



> The "I don't know where this kid is" comment could be interpreted two ways.
> 
> One: He doesn't know where the kid is so he gave up.
> 
> Two: He's still actually looking for this kid



And you are also assuming. I take it he meant what he said he did not know where Martin was but had stopped looking for him when that said he did not have to follow him.


----------



## saveliberty

I often retrace my steps when I lose things.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your speculating AGAIN.  Death by violence should be throughly investigated.  Media should stay out of active investigations.  Florida's law needs to be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh really?  Then why can police be charged with excessive force?  Most states still have reasonable actions law.  The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.
Click to expand...


You're assuming killing someone is excessive force. It depends if the law was followed or not.
Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with the law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really?  Then why can police be charged with excessive force?  Most states still have reasonable actions law.  The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You're assuming killing someone is excessive force*. It depends if the law was followed or not.
> Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force
Click to expand...


Okay, I'm game.  Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.


----------



## koshergrl

"I don't know where this kid is" sounded to me like he was concerned he was going to get jumped.

See it could mean a lot of different things.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really? Then why can police be charged with excessive force? Most states still have reasonable actions law. The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *You're assuming killing someone is excessive force*. It depends if the law was followed or not.
> Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, I'm game. Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.
Click to expand...

 
Excessive force isn't when you are being beaten by a drugged up kid who is trying to take your concealed weapon from it's holster, and you shoot the kid before he can shoot you.

Excessive force isn't shooting anyone who is sitting on top of you pounding your head on concrete.

Excessive force isn't shooting someone who tells you "You're going to die today" and then tries to kill you.

Of course that might not have happened...and of course it might have, too.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really?  Then why can police be charged with excessive force?  Most states still have reasonable actions law.  The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *You're assuming killing someone is excessive force*. It depends if the law was followed or not.
> Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, I'm game.  Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.
Click to expand...


If a police officer Lawfully kills someone that is not excessive force If a police office makes a lawful arrest but uses more than the force necessary to make the arrest that is excessive force. Here is the legal definition of Excessive force 

Excessive force by a law enforcement officers is a violation of a person's rights. Excessive force is not subject to a precise definition, but it is generally beyond the force a reasonable and prudent law enforcement officer would use under the circumstances. 

Force should be used in only the minimum amount needed to achieve a legitimate purpose. Police brutality is a direct violation of the laws within the police force. The use of excessive force is also a direct violation of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S Constitution regarding cruelty and protection of the laws.

Excessive Force Law & Legal Definition

Police department have training annually on use of force, department directives generally govern what the department considers excessive force.


----------



## KissMy

koshergrl said:


> "I don't know where this kid is" sounded to me like he was concerned he was going to get jumped.
> 
> See it could mean a lot of different things.



Zimmerman was afraid to give 911 his address because he knew Martin was stalking him. Martin ran & hid in order to use gorilla tactics against Zimmerman & he knew it. It may be that Martin was headed back to Zimmerman's vehicle to steal it or jack him & arrived there at the same time Zimmerman did.


----------



## koshergrl

it's weird that you say that because that's one of the first things I thought when Zimmerman said the kid was staring him down, then coming towards him. He was in his car then, and I thought 'carjacking'. 

And when Zimmerman got out and came towards him Martin ran...and to me, Zimmerman sounded scared.

Now this is just supposition on my part, it doesn't prove anything, I'm not a dolt like the people who say anything's been 'proven' based on the blurry video or any of the other silliness they imagine. But it's still possible. 

And the picture I get of the neighborhood is a neighborhood under siege. I thought it was weird that nobody who heard the screaming would help the guy...and I think it's pretty obvious that everybody who lives there is terrified.


----------



## koshergrl

Also, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some sort of loon.


----------



## saveliberty

Interesting when koshergrl imagines something its fact and when another person speculates its just plain wrong.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> Also, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some sort of loon.



Well, he does carry a gun and look what happened to the last guy...


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *You're assuming killing someone is excessive force*. It depends if the law was followed or not.
> Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'm game. Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excessive force isn't when you are being beaten by a drugged up kid who is trying to take your concealed weapon from it's holster, and you shoot the kid before he can shoot you.
> 
> Excessive force isn't shooting anyone who is sitting on top of you pounding your head on concrete.
> 
> Excessive force isn't shooting someone who tells you "You're going to die today" and then tries to kill you.
> 
> Of course that might not have happened...and of course it might have, too.
Click to expand...


Congratulations, you managed to completely avoid the original question.  I agree with the last statement for now.


----------



## paperview

koshergrl said:


> iAlso, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come  forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything  negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some  sort of loon.


Lot's of people have come out  and said  he was.

What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.


----------



## koshergrl

Who?

Link it please.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> it's weird that you say that because that's one of the first things I thought when Zimmerman said the kid was staring him down, then coming towards him. He was in his car then, and I thought 'carjacking'.
> 
> And when Zimmerman got out and came towards him Martin ran...and to me, Zimmerman sounded scared.
> 
> Now this is just supposition on my part, it doesn't prove anything, I'm not a dolt like the people who say anything's been 'proven' based on the blurry video or any of the other silliness they imagine. But it's still possible.
> 
> *And the picture I get of the neighborhood is a neighborhood under siege. I thought it was weird that nobody who heard the screaming would help the guy...and I think it's pretty obvious that everybody who lives there is terrified*.



Some of what you post has been what I have tried to stress.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> Who?
> 
> Link it please.



Try reading your own quoted source.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> iAlso, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come  forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything  negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some  sort of loon.
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of people have come out  and said  he was.
> 
> What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.
Click to expand...


You were asked for sources to support what you said.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> iAlso, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come  forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything  negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some  sort of loon.
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of people have come out  and said  he was.
> 
> What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
Click to expand...


Several articles have been linked in this thread and others.  Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of people have come out  and said  he was.
> 
> What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Several articles have been linked in this thread and others.  Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.
Click to expand...


I haven't read all those post so I haven't seen those links.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> We are both assuming if that's your argument. He was told he didn't need to follow Martin and acknowledged it by saying OK. If he didn't know the police were on the way you might have a point. But he knew they were in route and he did have an  ambition to be a police officer and would do just about anything to look good to them.



If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin. 

The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several articles have been linked in this thread and others.  Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I haven't read all those post so I haven't seen those links.
Click to expand...


I'd like to say it clarifies the issues, but it does not.  Just raises more doubts and controversy.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of people have come out and said he was.
> 
> What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Several articles have been linked in this thread and others. Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.
Click to expand...

 
No, because you're lying. His neighbors have not said anything like that. Let alone "lots" of neighbors. 
If they have, quote and links please.


----------



## paperview

saveliberty said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> Link it please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
Click to expand...

In addition, there are others who feared Zimmerman...a google search about his rottweiler would add some...others talked about how he would walk around the neighborhood being an asshole.  

This latest one (below) goes back some years ago, so it's trivial....but
  We know he had a Felony with Violence arrest...domestic fighting that involved the law...the man appears to have anger issues.

*Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde"*



> (CBS News) - An anonymous former co-worker of George Zimmerman,  the  man who shot and killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin five weeks ago,  told  a newspaper that Zimmerman "loved being in charge ... loved the  power"  and could become violent.
> 
> The New York Daily News reported Friday   that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security  guard  for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying  that  "usually he was just a cool guy. ... *But it was like Jekyll and Hyde.  When the dude snapped, he snapped."*


Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde" - CBS News

He snapped.  Those *******s weren't going to get away this time.  MO.


----------



## paperview

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> iAlso, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come  forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything  negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some  sort of loon.
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of people have come out  and said  he was.
> 
> What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
Click to expand...

Here's something I'll provide: Fuck you.


----------



## koshergrl

Neighbors. Not an anonymous ex co-worker from years back.

Also, regarding the dog...the COPS told the people in the neighborhood to get dogs. So he did.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several articles have been linked in this thread and others. Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, because you're lying. His neighbors have not said anything like that. Let alone "lots" of neighbors.
> If they have, quote and links please.
Click to expand...


Since when is this limited to neighbors only?

Zimmerman was convicted of a misdemeanor on the police officer assault case.  The ex-girlfriend had a restraining order and the domestic assault was dropped.  All found IN YOUR OWN LINKED SOURCE.


----------



## koshergrl

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of people have come out and said he was.
> 
> What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's something I'll provide: Fuck you.
Click to expand...

 
So you have no sources to support your idiotic statement.

Thank you.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several articles have been linked in this thread and others. Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, because you're lying. His neighbors have not said anything like that. Let alone "lots" of neighbors.
> If they have, quote and links please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when is this limited to neighbors only?
> 
> Zimmerman was convicted of a misdemeanor on the police officer assault case. The ex-girlfriend had a restraining order and the domestic assault was dropped. All found IN YOUR OWN LINKED SOURCE.
Click to expand...

 
Well I said none of his neighbors said he was a nut..and you said lots of people had come forward...I assumed we were talking about the same thing.

I guess you don't want to address the fact that his neighbors aren't talking shit about him...in fact, quite the opposite...


----------



## saveliberty

Tearing down people's character seems to be your only true ability koshergrl.  So sad for you.


----------



## Foxfyre

koshergrl said:


> it's weird that you say that because that's one of the first things I thought when Zimmerman said the kid was staring him down, then coming towards him. He was in his car then, and I thought 'carjacking'.
> 
> And when Zimmerman got out and came towards him Martin ran...and to me, Zimmerman sounded scared.
> 
> Now this is just supposition on my part, it doesn't prove anything, I'm not a dolt like the people who say anything's been 'proven' based on the blurry video or any of the other silliness they imagine. But it's still possible.
> 
> And the picture I get of the neighborhood is a neighborhood under siege. I thought it was weird that nobody who heard the screaming would help the guy...and I think it's pretty obvious that everybody who lives there is terrified.



Not necessarily scared but perhaps prudently cautious.  If you are alone when you witness a fight on the street or what appears to be somebody getting beat up, do you try to break it up yourself?  Or do you call 9/11?  And when you call, how accurate would you be in describing exactly who attacked who?

If you are alone and are going someplace and see a questionable looking person, who doesn't look like he belongs there,  alone in the parking,  lot do you park and  walk past him or do you drive on?  Or perhaps when you get closer and see that it is just a kid, would you make a different decision?

There was once a time it was safe for anybody to stop to assist a stranded motorist or pick up a hitchhiker.  These days, as a woman alone, unless I have profiled the person and am 100% certain that he or she is okay, I don't stop but rather notify somebody that the person is out there.

I am still thinking about this 'stand your ground' law as to whether I like it or not.  But I do know that I get very tired of being afraid of people, with good reason, and get tired of the thug or crook or robber or burglar or whomever getting the first benefit of the doubt when somebody, police officer or private citizen, defends himself/herself or his/her property.


----------



## paperview

> Although some neighbors say that Zimmerman's efforts prevented crimes,  others, particularly blacks, complained about his tactics. Teontae Aime,  a 17-year-old neighbor, said that Zimmerman  "would circle the block and circle it; it was weird. . . If he had  spotted me, he&#8217;d probably ask me if I lived here. He was known for being  really strict.&#8221;  Another black resident said that he stopped walking in  the neighborhood because he fit the "stereotype" of individuals that  Zimmerman deemed suspicious.



DISSENTING JUSTICE: George Zimmerman, Killer of Trayvon Martin: The Man Who Would Be Cop

Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

I've read more.  Just too damn hard at this point to sludge through the 10,000 articles out there now.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lot's of people have come out  and said  he was.
> 
> What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's something I'll provide: Fuck you.
Click to expand...


Thats what I thought.


----------



## paperview

saveliberty said:


> Tearing down people's character seems to be your only true ability koshergrl.  So sad for you.


That and neg reps when she get's her ass in a grill.

Bitch.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> Link it please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In addition, there are others who feared Zimmerman...a google search about his rottweiler would add some...others talked about how he would walk around the neighborhood being an asshole.
> 
> This latest one (below) goes back some years ago, so it's trivial....but
> We know he had a Felony with Violence arrest...domestic fighting that involved the law...the man appears to have anger issues.
> 
> *Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CBS News) - An anonymous former co-worker of George Zimmerman,  the  man who shot and killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin five weeks ago,  told  a newspaper that Zimmerman "loved being in charge ... loved the  power"  and could become violent.
> 
> The New York Daily News reported Friday   that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security  guard  for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying  that  "usually he was just a cool guy. ... *But it was like Jekyll and Hyde.  When the dude snapped, he snapped."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde" - CBS News
> 
> He snapped.  Those *******s weren't going to get away this time.  MO.
Click to expand...


An anonymous former co-worker? Hell some of the people I have worked with would say I was an asshole, at least those I had to put in their place or who was on a power trip themselves. I run jobs I have had people stab me in the back and those people I have had to put in their place (BOSS EMPLOYEE PLACE). So a FORMER co work saying something bad isn't a shock.


----------



## koshergrl

An anonymous former co-worker from YEARS ago.


----------



## koshergrl

I'm an anonymous former co-worker of paper's. He was fired for being a liar.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> Tearing down people's character seems to be your only true ability koshergrl.  So sad for you.


*And what about George Zimmerman's character what was paperchase doing when she posted that source?*
In addition, there are others who feared Zimmerman...a google search about his rottweiler would add some...others talked about how he would walk around the neighborhood being an asshole.  

This latest one (below) goes back some years ago, so it's trivial....but
  We know he had a Felony with Violence arrest...domestic fighting that involved the law...the man appears to have anger issues.

*Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde"*



> (CBS News) - An anonymous former co-worker of George Zimmerman,  the  man who shot and killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin five weeks ago,  told  a newspaper that Zimmerman "loved being in charge ... loved the  power"  and could become violent.
> 
> The New York Daily News reported Friday   that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security  guard  for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying  that  "usually he was just a cool guy. ... *But it was like Jekyll and Hyde.  When the dude snapped, he snapped."*


Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde" - CBS News

He snapped.  Those *******s weren't going to get away this time.  MO


----------



## saveliberty

paperview said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tearing down people's character seems to be your only true ability koshergrl.  So sad for you.
> 
> 
> 
> That and neg reps when she get's her ass in a grill.
> 
> Bitch.
Click to expand...


That ALWAYS makes me change my opinion and posting habits.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> I'm an anonymous former co-worker of paper's. He was fired for being a liar.



I heard you were just disgruntled from paper firing you the day before.


----------



## koshergrl

I was disgruntled because I thought paper was a guy...until she followed me into the women's bathroom to ask me on a date.


----------



## KissMy

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are both assuming if that's your argument. He was told he didn't need to follow Martin and acknowledged it by saying OK. If he didn't know the police were on the way you might have a point. But he knew they were in route and he did have an  ambition to be a police officer and would do just about anything to look good to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin.
> 
> The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.
Click to expand...


When the 911 operator said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman had lost Marten & was headed back to his vehicle in order to drive to the mail boxes to meet the officer. Zimmerman was jumped by Martin as he approached his vehicle.


----------



## paperview

KissMy said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are both assuming if that's your argument. He was told he didn't need to follow Martin and acknowledged it by saying OK. If he didn't know the police were on the way you might have a point. But he knew they were in route and he did have an  ambition to be a police officer and would do just about anything to look good to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin.
> 
> The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the 911 operator said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman had lost Marten & was headed back to his vehicle in order to drive to the mail boxes to meet the officer. Zimmerman was jumped by Martin as he approached his vehicle.
Click to expand...

He wasn't anywhere near his vehicle when the incident occurred.


----------



## koshergrl

Can you link something that shows that? People keep saying they know where this person or that person was at this or that time...but I've seen absolutely nothing.

So I'm wondering where it comes from?


----------



## koshergrl

Just like they were saying the girlfriend said this or that, and the phone calls started and ended at particular times...but so far I've seen absolutely nothing that shows when the calls were, or what was said, at least during the girlfriend's call...except by 2nd and 3rd hand sources.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

*LOL at the title of this thread.
Typical that a lib would get the 
facts wrong from the outset.*


----------



## koshergrl

Gaybiker. He's just batshit crazy.


----------



## Dick Tuck

koshergrl said:


> Also, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some sort of loon.



George Zimmerman, Son of a Retired Judge, Has 3 Closed Arrests



> According to a records search on George, he was previously arrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly, resisting an officer with violence &#8212; a  felony charge that surely could have landed him in prison.



OE: This post got a neg rep from Sunshine.


----------



## paperview

I posted this earlier:

I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:

This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:

This map shows the route Trayvon Martin took when he returned:







http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/street-view-overhead1.jpg

Straight ahead, between the two  perpendicular rows of buildings, is the    sidewalk Trayvon took to escape  Zimmerman. It was the way back to    where he was staying. 







http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/zimmerman-parked2.jpg

This is the path Trayvon took, looking south. Scott is on the left. Both     are from a Japanese media organization. Facing me is the direction     Trayvon took. Zimmerman parked his truck somewhere near the red car  and    pursued on foot.





This is the spot where Trayvon died, just to the left of the small tree.






This is the scene looking south. The shooting took place on the sidewalk to the left.






This is what Trayvon last saw as he tried to make it back to safety, although it was dark:




http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/spot-of-shooting.jpg


----------



## SFC Ollie

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not one person who has posted on this thread has any idea what really happened that night. 

I for one will wait and see what the new official investigation shows.....

And I hope it isn't influenced by politics............


----------



## koshergrl

"someone" took those pictures????

Ok, so now we have it confirmed...Gaybiker and Paperpuke are both batshit crazy.


----------



## HomeInspect

Again, was does it matter?... It's one stupid crime. One stupid case. The left wing commie media just wants to incite riots by using every method possible to turn this into a national race issue. Blacks kill whites in this country every day. I think it's the whites that should be marching.


----------



## Dick Tuck

HomeInspect said:


> Again, was does it matter?... It's one stupid crime. One stupid case. The left wing commie media just wants to incite riots by using every method possible to turn this into a national race issue. Blacks kill whites in this country every day. I think it's the whites that should be marching.



What matters is the Prosecutor didn't even bother with an investigative grand jury before saying he wouldn't charge Zimmerman, in spite of the homicide detective in charge, recommended charging him with manslaughter.   What makes it smell is that Zimmerman was let off of 3 other arrests, including assaulting a police officer.  Funny that his father is a retired Judge and his mother was a clerk of the court.


----------



## koshergrl

That's not exactly right...the prosecutor said she wouldn't charge Zimmerman, at the time, because there wasn't enough evidence.

But the state's attorney, Angela Corey, made it REALLY CLEAR that they were investigating, and that if they found evidence, they would charge him before the Grand Jury hearing. 

"
On the night of the shooting, the Sanford police department&#8217;s lead homicide investigator in the case had recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but he was overruled by a state&#8217;s attorney, who said there was not enough evidence in light of the state&#8217;s &#8220;Stand Your Ground&#8221; law, according to ABC News.
The FBI and the Justice Department are helping Florida investigators with resources but letting state prosecutors take the lead, law enforcement officials said. A Seminole County grand jury is scheduled for April 10.
Corey said a grand jury might not be necessary, suggesting that if she finds enough evidence to file charges, she could do so."

Florida prosecutor taps experts to review 911 calls in Trayvon Martin shooting - The Washington Post

The fact that he hasn't been charged, going by what she said here, means they don't believe they have enough evidence at this time.

Which doesn't mean the grand jury won't indict..it just means they'll have a crap case.

We still have a little more than a week, but going by what she said, it really sounds like they don't have a case at this point.

Though who knows, prosecutors are so strategic, maybe she was just blabbing and her plan is to arrest and charge him the night before the Grand Jury assembles, to give Zimmerman a chance to sweat, and to give her a chance to get everything lined up for the incredible media blitz that's going to take place when and if she arrests him.


----------



## Ariux

paperview said:


> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:
> 
> This map shows the route Trayvon Martin took when he returned:



Per chance, can you show a map with this information, plus the location where Trayvon was staying and the location where he shoplifted the skittles?

And, who do you think they ended up between the homes?  Do you think morbidly obese man chased down the 6'3" teen?  Or, maybe it happened the other way around?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were asked for sources to support what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several articles have been linked in this thread and others. Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, because you're lying. His neighbors have not said anything like that. Let alone "lots" of neighbors.
> If they have, quote and links please.
Click to expand...


It wasn't saveliberty  who said lots of people it was paperview. I like saveliberty he's just a little misguided on this issue. So please don't call him a liar.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:
> 
> This map shows the route Trayvon Martin took when he returned:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/street-view-overhead1.jpg
> 
> Straight ahead, between the two  perpendicular rows of buildings, is the    sidewalk Trayvon took to escape  Zimmerman. It was the way back to    where he was staying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/zimmerman-parked2.jpg
> 
> This is the path Trayvon took, looking south. Scott is on the left. Both     are from a Japanese media organization. Facing me is the direction     Trayvon took. Zimmerman parked his truck somewhere near the red car  and    pursued on foot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the spot where Trayvon died, just to the left of the small tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the scene looking south. The shooting took place on the sidewalk to the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what Trayvon last saw as he tried to make it back to safety, although it was dark:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/spot-of-shooting.jpg


And these people are who to what? There is such a thing as chain of custody. They are part of the process. You balked at the cut on Zimmerman head and I call bullshit on your on your dick tracy PI kids. What is their experience in collecting evidence?


----------



## paperview

They're not collecting evidence, dorkface.  They are presenting pictures of the homicide scene.

There's nothing to call "bullshit" on about just showing the pictures.

Geezuz.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin.
> 
> The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the 911 operator said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman had lost Marten & was headed back to his vehicle in order to drive to the mail boxes to meet the officer. Zimmerman was jumped by Martin as he approached his vehicle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He wasn't anywhere near his vehicle when the incident occurred.
Click to expand...


So? Exactly how fast can he run? Maybe he can run a 100 yard dash in 10.0 maybe he didn't retrace his steps. Maybe on his way back to his vehicle zimmerman heard something in an area that forced him to alter his path and go another way.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> They're not collecting evidence, dorkface.  They are presenting pictures of the homicide scene.
> 
> There's nothing to call "bullshit" on about just showing the pictures.
> 
> Geezuz.



Those pictures would be consider evidence stupid. Retracing steps would be considered evidence. Everything they did is collecting evidence


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> I was disgruntled because I thought paper was a guy...until she followed me into the women's bathroom to ask me on a date.





paper, you got some explaining to do.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several articles have been linked in this thread and others. Someone as up-to-date as yourself surely is aware of them by now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, because you're lying. His neighbors have not said anything like that. Let alone "lots" of neighbors.
> If they have, quote and links please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasn't saveliberty  who said lots of people it was paperview. I like saveliberty he's just a little misguided on this issue. So please don't call him a liar.
Click to expand...


Thanks bigreb, its entirely possible I'm wrong, but at this point the whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.  Its like the news stories about kidnapped kids and the first thing I think is the boyfriend or mom did it.  Then bingo, that's what it is.  

Just a for instance, but if the map is correct, Zimmerman is in his truck as some have suggested.  He has a gun in the relative safety of his truck.  Martin pulls him out or Zimmerman gets out?  Why?  Then if he actually does, how do the two end up behind a building 150 ft. away?  Who follows or chases who?  Like SFC Ollie said, somehow most of this will get pieced together.  At this point I choose to look at this from the POV of the person who lost the most that night.  Also someone who can't speak for himself any more.  Regardless, everyone involved in either family suffered a huge loss that night.


----------



## Ravi

saveliberty said:


> Interesting when koshergrl imagines something its fact and when another person speculates its just plain wrong.



She's studying logic. Sadly, her teachers pass her because they don't want her back in class next term.


----------



## Ravi

KissMy said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are both assuming if that's your argument. He was told he didn't need to follow Martin and acknowledged it by saying OK. If he didn't know the police were on the way you might have a point. But he knew they were in route and he did have an  ambition to be a police officer and would do just about anything to look good to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin.
> 
> The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the 911 operator said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman had lost Marten & was headed back to his vehicle in order to drive to the mail boxes to meet the officer. Zimmerman was jumped by Martin as he approached his vehicle.
Click to expand...

You were there? I hadn't realized.


----------



## Peach

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, because you're lying. His neighbors have not said anything like that. Let alone "lots" of neighbors.
> If they have, quote and links please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't saveliberty  who said lots of people it was paperview. I like saveliberty he's just a little misguided on this issue. So please don't call him a liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks bigreb, its entirely possible I'm wrong, but at this point the whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.  Its like the news stories about kidnapped kids and the first thing I think is the boyfriend or mom did it.  Then bingo, that's what it is.
> 
> Just a for instance, but if the map is correct, Zimmerman is in his truck as some have suggested.  He has a gun in the relative safety of his truck.  Martin pulls him out or Zimmerman gets out?  Why?  Then if he actually does, how do the two end up behind a building 150 ft. away?  Who follows or chases who?  Like SFC Ollie said, somehow most of this will get pieced together.  At this point I choose to look at this from the POV of the person who lost the most that night.  Also someone who can't speak for himself any more.  Regardless, everyone involved in either family suffered a huge loss that night.
Click to expand...



I am reading this has riveted the nation like no other crime story since OJ; something in this sad event interests many........................


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, because you're lying. His neighbors have not said anything like that. Let alone "lots" of neighbors.
> If they have, quote and links please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't saveliberty  who said lots of people it was paperview. I like saveliberty he's just a little misguided on this issue. So please don't call him a liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks bigreb, its entirely possible I'm wrong, but at this point the whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.  Its like the news stories about kidnapped kids and the first thing I think is the boyfriend or mom did it.  Then bingo, that's what it is.
> 
> Just a for instance, but if the map is correct, Zimmerman is in his truck as some have suggested.  He has a gun in the relative safety of his truck.  Martin pulls him out or Zimmerman gets out?  Why?  Then if he actually does, how do the two end up behind a building 150 ft. away?  Who follows or chases who?  Like SFC Ollie said, somehow most of this will get pieced together.  At this point I choose to look at this from the POV of the person who lost the most that night.  Also someone who can't speak for himself any more.  Regardless, everyone involved in either family suffered a huge loss that night.
Click to expand...


150 feet is not that far
150 feet = 50 yards
The avg. person can run the 40 yard dash in 6 seconds.
If Trayvon took off running and Zimmerman got out of his truck and followed Trayvon. If you listen to the 911 video from the time of the ding ding ding sound of keys in the ignition and the time he stops huffing and puffing when the dispatcher says he does not need to follow Trayvon that's about 8 to 9 seconds. He could have gotten that far.


----------



## Ravi

paperview said:


> They're not collecting evidence, dorkface.  They are presenting pictures of the homicide scene.
> 
> There's nothing to call "bullshit" on about just showing the pictures.
> 
> Geezuz.



Yeah, but, should a BLACK teen be allowed to walk through that neighborhood??? /sarcasm


----------



## HomeInspect

Dick Tuck said:


> HomeInspect said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, was does it matter?... It's one stupid crime. One stupid case. The left wing commie media just wants to incite riots by using every method possible to turn this into a national race issue. Blacks kill whites in this country every day. I think it's the whites that should be marching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What matters is the Prosecutor didn't even bother with an investigative grand jury before saying he wouldn't charge Zimmerman, in spite of the homicide detective in charge, recommended charging him with manslaughter.   What makes it smell is that Zimmerman was let off of 3 other arrests, including assaulting a police officer.  Funny that his father is a retired Judge and his mother was a clerk of the court.[/QUOTE
> 
> Everything you said may be exactly correct. It doesn't change my point. It is one case out of thousands in theis country each year. The media decided to feed on it like a pack of hungry wolves to create disorder and contraversy. We have a bounty on a guys head by the New Balck Panthers, we have elected officials saying the kid was hunted like prey, and we have Spike Lee tweeting (what he thought) was the address of the shooter, but an incident couple in fear and danger. Is this suppose to happen? Would it happen without the irresponsible media?  I don't thing so.
Click to expand...


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin.
> 
> The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the 911 operator said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman had lost Marten & was headed back to his vehicle in order to drive to the mail boxes to meet the officer. Zimmerman was jumped by Martin as he approached his vehicle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You were there? I hadn't realized.
Click to expand...


We're just assuming like you are assuming.


----------



## paperview

saveliberty said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was disgruntled because I thought paper was a guy...until she followed me into the women's bathroom to ask me on a date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paper, you got some explaining to do.
Click to expand...

The only explaining is that koshergirl is some mighty messed up bullshitting chick who obviously has personality issues.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Ravi said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're not collecting evidence, dorkface.  They are presenting pictures of the homicide scene.
> 
> There's nothing to call "bullshit" on about just showing the pictures.
> 
> Geezuz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but, should a BLACK teen be allowed to walk through that neighborhood??? /sarcasm
Click to expand...


The question should be why is a teenager who was just suspended from school for 10 because of drugs allowed out of the house much less at night?


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't saveliberty  who said lots of people it was paperview. I like saveliberty he's just a little misguided on this issue. So please don't call him a liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks bigreb, its entirely possible I'm wrong, but at this point the whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.  Its like the news stories about kidnapped kids and the first thing I think is the boyfriend or mom did it.  Then bingo, that's what it is.
> 
> Just a for instance, but if the map is correct, Zimmerman is in his truck as some have suggested.  He has a gun in the relative safety of his truck.  Martin pulls him out or Zimmerman gets out?  Why?  Then if he actually does, how do the two end up behind a building 150 ft. away?  Who follows or chases who?  Like SFC Ollie said, somehow most of this will get pieced together.  At this point I choose to look at this from the POV of the person who lost the most that night.  Also someone who can't speak for himself any more.  Regardless, everyone involved in either family suffered a huge loss that night.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 150 feet is not that far
> 150 feet = 50 yards
> The avg. person can run the 40 yard dash in 6 seconds.
> If Trayvon took off running and Zimmerman got out of his truck and followed Trayvon. If you listen to the 911 video from the time of the ding ding ding sound of keys in the ignition and the time he stops huffing and puffing when the dispatcher says he does not need to follow Trayvon that's about 8 to 9 seconds. He could have gotten that far.
Click to expand...


So Zimmerman (240lbs.) gives the kid a headstart and catches him.  Not likely.
Kid is scared and runs, but realizes Zimmerman has a gun, so he can't outrun him.  Ducls behind the building and jumps his pursuer.  In fear of his life hits Zimmerman.  Zimmerman resorts to using his gun.  ???


----------



## saveliberty

paperview said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was disgruntled because I thought paper was a guy...until she followed me into the women's bathroom to ask me on a date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paper, you got some explaining to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only explaining is that koshergirl is some mighty messed up bullshitting chick who obviously has personality issues.
Click to expand...


I have to say I'm disappointed.  Was really hoping for a more fun answer than that.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks bigreb, its entirely possible I'm wrong, but at this point the whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.  Its like the news stories about kidnapped kids and the first thing I think is the boyfriend or mom did it.  Then bingo, that's what it is.
> 
> Just a for instance, but if the map is correct, Zimmerman is in his truck as some have suggested.  He has a gun in the relative safety of his truck.  Martin pulls him out or Zimmerman gets out?  Why?  Then if he actually does, how do the two end up behind a building 150 ft. away?  Who follows or chases who?  Like SFC Ollie said, somehow most of this will get pieced together.  At this point I choose to look at this from the POV of the person who lost the most that night.  Also someone who can't speak for himself any more.  Regardless, everyone involved in either family suffered a huge loss that night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 150 feet is not that far
> 150 feet = 50 yards
> The avg. person can run the 40 yard dash in 6 seconds.
> If Trayvon took off running and Zimmerman got out of his truck and followed Trayvon. If you listen to the 911 video from the time of the ding ding ding sound of keys in the ignition and the time he stops huffing and puffing when the dispatcher says he does not need to follow Trayvon that's about 8 to 9 seconds. He could have gotten that far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Zimmerman (240lbs.) gives the kid a headstart and catches him.  Not likely.
> Kid is scared and runs, but realizes Zimmerman has a gun, so he can't outrun him.  Ducls behind the building and jumps his pursuer.  In fear of his life hits Zimmerman.  Zimmerman resorts to using his gun.  ???
Click to expand...


Zimmerman said he got away However you asked how did they get 150 feet away. I thought I explained that part with an acceptable summation. As for the gun do you have proof Zimmerman had it out? I don't think Trayvon knew anything about a gun until he hit Zimmerman.


----------



## saveliberty

Most people are either fight OR flight bigreb.  The runs first, then fights?  Martin had a head start and is 150lbs and is a football player.  Zimmerman catches him?  One minute he's superhuman and teh next he's getting beat up?  Not saying you're wrong, just that its really inconsistent for me.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> Most people are either fight OR flight bigreb.  The runs first, then fights?  Martin had a head start and is 150lbs and is a football player.  Zimmerman catches him?  One minute he's superhuman and teh next he's getting beat up?  Not saying you're wrong, just that its really inconsistent for me.



You are assuming wrongly again Zimmerman never caught him according to the 911 video Trayvon got away.


----------



## saveliberty

bigrebnc1775 said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people are either fight OR flight bigreb.  The runs first, then fights?  Martin had a head start and is 150lbs and is a football player.  Zimmerman catches him?  One minute he's superhuman and teh next he's getting beat up?  Not saying you're wrong, just that its really inconsistent for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are assuming wrongly again Zimmerman never caught him according to the 911 video Trayvon got away.
Click to expand...


Guessing you meant audio.

Martin most certainly did not get away.  He's dead 150 feet from Zimmerman's truck.  I thought you said Trayvon lost Zimmerman and Zimmerman returns to his truck.  Somehow he finds Trayvon and they both end up behind the building.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people are either fight OR flight bigreb.  The runs first, then fights?  Martin had a head start and is 150lbs and is a football player.  Zimmerman catches him?  One minute he's superhuman and teh next he's getting beat up?  Not saying you're wrong, just that its really inconsistent for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are assuming wrongly again Zimmerman never caught him according to the 911 video Trayvon got away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Guessing you meant audio.
> 
> Martin most certainly did not get away.  He's dead 150 feet from Zimmerman's truck.  I thought you said Trayvon lost Zimmerman and Zimmerman returns to his truck.  Somehow he finds Trayvon and they both end up behind the building.
Click to expand...


He got away but came back hows that?


----------



## saveliberty

I'm the confused guy here right?  I mean we sort of established I'm leery of Zimmerman's account.  Please help with the timeline.

Zimmerman observes Martin acting suspicously and pursues while calling 911.
Zimmerman heads back to his truck and is still on the phone with 911.
What happens next?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> I'm the confused guy here right?  I mean we sort of established I'm leery of Zimmerman's account.  Please help with the timeline.
> 
> Zimmerman observes Martin acting suspicously and pursues while calling 911.
> Zimmerman heads back to his truck and is still on the phone with 911.
> What happens next?



Zimmerman calls 911 and tells them he lives in an area that had a rash of break ins and that he saw a person who he did not know walking in the area, and that person was acting strange. The he told the dispatcher the person was looking at him and he thought he was on something. Zimmerman then said the black male was walking his way. It was shortly after that Trayvon ran and Zimmerman went after him. The dispatcher ask Zimmerman if he was following Zimmerman said yes the dispatcher said he did not need to do that, Zimmerman responds OK Zimmerman huffing and puffing said he got away and thats when he said that he  would like to meet with the police when they arrive.


----------



## saveliberty

Wasn't there a, he's in the truck part with the igition dinger?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> Wasn't there a, he's in the truck part with the igition dinger?



2:10 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL72w4xiTVU]Trayvon Martin News [SHOCKING FULL] Murder Caught on Tape | Killed By George Zimmerman 911 Call #1 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## saveliberty

This thing just gets curiouser and curiouser....


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> This thing just gets curiouser and curiouser....


That's why the police know more about this than we do.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> Link it please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
Click to expand...

 
Bullshit. Link it. Quote it.

People who don't quote and link are generally lying, btw.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> Link it please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit. Link it. Quote it.
> 
> People who don't quote and link are generally lying, btw.
Click to expand...


That information has be dealt with
An ex coworker said blah blah blah and they didn't want to release their name.


----------



## KissMy

Dick Tuck said:
			
		

> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have mental problems if you think "Fucking Punks" is "Fucking Coons"
> 
> You are letting a political talking head brainwash you into thinking "Fucking Coons"  Zimmerman said "Fucking Punks" clear as day.
> 
> FUCKING PUNKS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to that you tube you sent me, you lying piece of garbage..
Click to expand...

You are the lying piece of garbage & you are a racist. Your racism & the media have your thinking so bias that you can't even believe your own ears, I have listened to this over & over with & without headphones at various volume & tone levels. I can't hear anything but "fucking punks" You have absolutely no ability to TFYQUA. You are not able to think freely.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvo"]FUCKING PUNKS!!![/ame]


----------



## Foxfyre

The Grand Jury will convene and will hear all available evidence and will decide if there is sufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman with any crime.  That will not be determined by any of us quoting inexpert opinion from biased news stories and/or other message boards.

Early in this thread I posted a news piece characterizing Zimmerman as a white Hispanic.  That early on set this up as a race baiting story to give face time to apparently all the race baiters in the country.  I would like to think all of us would be focusing on THAT instead of trying either Martin or Zimmerman in the amateur court of public opinion.

Tonight I was causally listening to Mark Levine program running in the background on the radio here.  I haven't heard most of what he has said as I was busy with other things, but I did happen to hear him reading from the Chicago Triibune today.  There were at least a half dozen stories reporting gun related incidents in Chicago during the last 24 hours.  At least some of those involved injury or death to innocent people including one child.  Gunmen in hoodies were mentioned but no mention of race.  No indication of President Obama expressing sorrow or regret that anybody looked like what an Obama son would look like.  No Al Sharrpton or Jesse Jackson stirring up the mobs to rage and protest.  No New Black Panthers putting out contracts to bring anybody to "justice".

If nothing else, that alone should encourage all of us to step back and look clearly at what is happening here and choosing not to aid and abet it.


----------



## Dick Tuck

KissMy said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have mental problems if you think "Fucking Punks" is "Fucking Coons"
> 
> You are letting a political talking head brainwash you into thinking "Fucking Coons"  Zimmerman said "Fucking Punks" clear as day.
> 
> FUCKING PUNKS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to that you tube you sent me, you lying piece of garbage..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the lying piece of garbage & you are a racist. Your racism & the media have your thinking so bias that you can't even believe your own ears, I have listened to this over & over with & without headphones at various volume & tone levels. I can't hear anything but "fucking punks" You have absolutely no ability to TFYQUA. You are not able to think freely.
> 
> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvo"]FUCKING PUNKS!!![/ame]
Click to expand...


I hope everyone listens to that youtube you put up.  It shows what a dishonest piece of shit your are.  "Fucking coons" is clearly audible.  People might also wish to go to the original, to see how you changed the title.   You're a real lowlife.


----------



## Foxfyre

Dick Tuck said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to that you tube you sent me, you lying piece of garbage..
> 
> 
> 
> You are the lying piece of garbage & you are a racist. Your racism & the media have your thinking so bias that you can't even believe your own ears, I have listened to this over & over with & without headphones at various volume & tone levels. I can't hear anything but "fucking punks" You have absolutely no ability to TFYQUA. You are not able to think freely.
> 
> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvo"]FUCKING PUNKS!!![/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hope everyone listens to that youtube you put up.  It shows what a dishonest piece of shit your are.  "Fucking coons" is clearly audible.  People might also wish to go to the original, to see how you changed the title.   You're a real lowlife.
Click to expand...


I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to.  Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube.   That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording.  The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> The Grand Jury will convene and will hear all available evidence and will decide if there is sufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman with any crime.  That will not be determined by any of us quoting inexpert opinion from biased news stories and/or other message boards.
> 
> Early in this thread I posted a news piece characterizing Zimmerman as a white Hispanic.  That early on set this up as a race baiting story to give face time to apparently all the race baiters in the country.  I would like to think all of us would be focusing on THAT instead of trying either Martin or Zimmerman in the amateur court of public opinion.
> 
> Tonight I was causally listening to Mark Levine program running in the background on the radio here.  I haven't heard most of what he has said as I was busy with other things, but I did happen to hear him reading from the Chicago Triibune today.  There were at least a half dozen stories reporting gun related incidents in Chicago during the last 24 hours.  At least some of those involved injury or death to innocent people including one child.  Gunmen in hoodies were mentioned but no mention of race.  No indication of President Obama expressing sorrow or regret that anybody looked like what an Obama son would look like.  No Al Sharrpton or Jesse Jackson stirring up the mobs to rage and protest.  No New Black Panthers putting out contracts to bring anybody to "justice".
> 
> If nothing else, that alone should encourage all of us to step back and look clearly at what is happening here and choosing not to aid and abet it.



Now Foxy according to the lynch mob you know that isn't true.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the lying piece of garbage & you are a racist. Your racism & the media have your thinking so bias that you can't even believe your own ears, I have listened to this over & over with & without headphones at various volume & tone levels. I can't hear anything but "fucking punks" You have absolutely no ability to TFYQUA. You are not able to think freely.
> 
> FUCKING PUNKS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope everyone listens to that youtube you put up.  It shows what a dishonest piece of shit your are.  "Fucking coons" is clearly audible.  People might also wish to go to the original, to see how you changed the title.   You're a real lowlife.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to.  Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube.   That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording.  The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.
Click to expand...

I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.


----------



## Emma

paperview said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> Link it please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In addition, there are others who feared Zimmerman...a google search about his rottweiler would add some...others talked about how he would walk around the neighborhood being an asshole.
> 
> This latest one (below) goes back some years ago, so it's trivial....but
> We know he had a Felony with Violence arrest...domestic fighting that involved the law...the man appears to have anger issues.
> 
> *Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CBS News) - An anonymous former co-worker of George Zimmerman,  the  man who shot and killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin five weeks ago,  told  a newspaper that Zimmerman "loved being in charge ... loved the  power"  and could become violent.
> 
> The New York Daily News reported Friday   that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security  guard  for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying  that  "usually he was just a cool guy. ... *But it was like Jekyll and Hyde.  When the dude snapped, he snapped."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde" - CBS News
> 
> He snapped.  Those *******s weren't going to get away this time.  MO.
Click to expand...



(George's brother in an interview):  "George was out of breath. _*He was barely conscious. The last thing that  he remembers doing*_ is moving his head from the concrete to the grass,  so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn't be wearing diapers  for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother."


BullSHIT. 

Police arrived within a minute of the shooting. He recovered from that severe brain injury pretty damned fast.


----------



## Emma

KissMy said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are both assuming if that's your argument. He was told he didn't need to follow Martin and acknowledged it by saying OK. If he didn't know the police were on the way you might have a point. But he knew they were in route and he did have an  ambition to be a police officer and would do just about anything to look good to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin.
> 
> The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the 911 operator said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman had lost Marten & was headed back to his vehicle in order to drive to the mail boxes to meet the officer. Zimmerman was jumped by Martin as he approached his vehicle.
Click to expand...


His vehicle could NOT have been where the altercation took place, unless you want to claim he was driving through the courtyard.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Emma said:


> Police arrived within a minute of the shooting. He recovered from that severe brain injury pretty damned fast.



Right.

People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.

Take Boxing or MMA.  Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.

Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked  unconscious.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, there are others who feared Zimmerman...a google search about his rottweiler would add some...others talked about how he would walk around the neighborhood being an asshole.
> 
> This latest one (below) goes back some years ago, so it's trivial....but
> We know he had a Felony with Violence arrest...domestic fighting that involved the law...the man appears to have anger issues.
> 
> *Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CBS News) - An anonymous former co-worker of George Zimmerman,  the  man who shot and killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin five weeks ago,  told  a newspaper that Zimmerman "loved being in charge ... loved the  power"  and could become violent.
> 
> The New York Daily News reported Friday   that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security  guard  for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying  that  "usually he was just a cool guy. ... *But it was like Jekyll and Hyde.  When the dude snapped, he snapped."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde" - CBS News
> 
> He snapped.  Those *******s weren't going to get away this time.  MO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> (George's brother in an interview):  "George was out of breath. _*He was barely conscious. The last thing that  he remembers doing*_ is moving his head from the concrete to the grass,  so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn't be wearing diapers  for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother."
> 
> 
> BullSHIT.
> 
> Police arrived within a minute of the shooting. He recovered from that severe brain injury pretty damned fast.
Click to expand...


Yep theirs a conspiracy
Police officer 1 let's arrest him
Police officer 2 yes but first we need to get rid of some evidence.


----------



## saveliberty

koshergrl said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who?
> 
> Link it please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit. Link it. Quote it.
> 
> People who don't quote and link are generally lying, btw.
Click to expand...


Real lowlife scumbags delete their source like you did koshergrl.


----------



## Emma

paperview said:


> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:



Thank you.

 I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman did not follow Martin after being told not to, then how do you explain where the shooting took place? Map the addresses given in the police report --- where Zimmerman was when he called and where he said he'd meet the officers, and then look at where the officer found Zimmerman and Martin.
> 
> The mailboxes and clubhouse (address given in both the call and report) where Zimmerman was _supposed_ to be is _not_ where they were found. I think Zimmerman was trying to look "good" to the cops, but by keeping up with Martin so he didn't get away before they showed up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the 911 operator said we don't need you to do that, Zimmerman had lost Marten & was headed back to his vehicle in order to drive to the mail boxes to meet the officer. Zimmerman was jumped by Martin as he approached his vehicle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His vehicle could NOT have been where the altercation took place, unless you want to claim he was driving through the courtyard.
Click to expand...


I heard  it was 150 feet away, that's 50 yards


> From another post I made





> 150 feet is not that far
> 150 feet = 50 yards
> The avg. person can run the 40 yard dash in 6 seconds.
> If Trayvon took off running and Zimmerman got out of his truck and followed Trayvon. If you listen to the 911 video from the time of the ding ding ding sound of keys in the ignition and the time he stops huffing and puffing when the dispatcher says he does not need to follow Trayvon that's about 8 to 9 seconds. He could have gotten that far.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
Click to expand...


I asked her what experience those people had in collection of evidence. Her reply was that was evidence they were collecting.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

saveliberty said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading your own quoted source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. Link it. Quote it.
> 
> People who don't quote and link are generally lying, btw.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Real lowlife scumbags delete their source like you did koshergrl.
Click to expand...


I defended you now I must with her. I have not seen her do this, don't go there.


----------



## Emma

OODA_Loop said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Police arrived within a minute of the shooting. He recovered from that severe brain injury pretty damned fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.
> 
> Take Boxing or MMA.  Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.
> 
> Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked  unconscious.
Click to expand...


Never said that. 

But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care. 

Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived. 

George's brother is full of shit.


----------



## saveliberty

Perhaps it exists in another thread then.  koshergrl posted it.  The article was voicing opinions from neighbors concerning Mr. Zimmerman.  There are so many threads about this its ridiculous.  Regardless the dishonesty rests with koshergrl.

Double checked all of koshergrl's posts from yesterday.  Looks like she deleted the post completely.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, there are others who feared Zimmerman...a google search about his rottweiler would add some...others talked about how he would walk around the neighborhood being an asshole.
> 
> This latest one (below) goes back some years ago, so it's trivial....but
> We know he had a Felony with Violence arrest...domestic fighting that involved the law...the man appears to have anger issues.
> 
> *Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde"*
> 
> Report: Zimmerman described as "Jekyll and Hyde" - CBS News
> 
> He snapped.  Those *******s weren't going to get away this time.  MO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (George's brother in an interview):  "George was out of breath. _*He was barely conscious. The last thing that  he remembers doing*_ is moving his head from the concrete to the grass,  so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn't be wearing diapers  for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother."
> 
> 
> BullSHIT.
> 
> Police arrived within a minute of the shooting. He recovered from that severe brain injury pretty damned fast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep theirs a conspiracy
> Police officer 1 let's arrest him
> Police officer 2 yes but first we need to get rid of some evidence.
Click to expand...


I never said a word about the police getting rid of evidence. 

I'm saying George's brother is full of shit.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I heard  it was 150 feet away, that's 50 yards



I'm going strictly by the addresses given in the police report. The officer states he parked at 2821 Retreat View Circle, and walked between the buildings to find Zimmerman with Martin face down in the grass between 2821 Retreat View Circle and 1231 Twin Trees Lane. You can also see in news videos of the scene that it is not near where Zimmerman _could_ have parked, and certainly not where he claimed to have been when he placed the call and where he said he would be waiting for officers to arrive.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I asked her what experience those people had in collection of evidence. Her reply was that was evidence they were collecting.
Click to expand...

I don't know who those people were; again ... I'm using the POLICE report to ID where this took place.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked her what experience those people had in collection of evidence. Her reply was that was evidence they were collecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know who those people were; again ... I'm using the POLICE report to ID where this took place.
Click to expand...


What she posted was not from the police. You used what paperviwed posted isn't that correct?


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked her what experience those people had in collection of evidence. Her reply was that was evidence they were collecting.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who those people were; again ... I'm using the POLICE report to ID where this took place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What she posted was not from the police. You used what paperviwed posted isn't that correct?
Click to expand...

  I looked at the aerial photo and pointed out what the police report said, which indicates the altercation took place further down that courtyard than where the photo is marked.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who those people were; again ... I'm using the POLICE report to ID where this took place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she posted was not from the police. You used what paperviwed posted isn't that correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I looked at the aerial photo and pointed out what the police report said, which indicates the altercation took place further down that courtyard than where the photo is marked.
Click to expand...


Are you using the information Paperview provided?


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What she posted was not from the police. You used what paperviwed posted isn't that correct?
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at the aerial photo and pointed out what the police report said, which indicates the altercation took place further down that courtyard than where the photo is marked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you using the information Paperview provided?
Click to expand...


I was responding specifically to the aerial photo she posted by sourcing the police report, and referencing news videos/photos:

_I think* if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was  further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway*; the officer  (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821  Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821  address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman.  Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still  photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight  took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.

_Now if you want to call that "using", knock yourself out.


----------



## SFC Ollie

You know, not one of us has any better idea than another as to what happened that night.

And what really pisses me off is that the true racist fucks are right now; as I type this;  gathering in Sanford to protest the police department.... The NAACP and I heard La Raza (Maybe they hadn't heard that Zimmerman is Hispanic) Anyway, they want blood, and they are as normal,WRONG.......


----------



## bigrebnc1775

SFC Ollie said:


> You know, not one of us has any better idea than another as to what happened that night.
> 
> And what really pisses me off is that the true racist fucks are right now; as I type this;  gathering in Sanford to protest the police department.... The NAACP and I heard La Raza (Maybe they hadn't heard that Zimmerman is Hispanic) Anyway, they want blood, and they are as normal,WRONG.......



I know Ollie but that's what we do here discuss things.  On my part I have tried to keep the discussion pertaining to what evidence that has been released. I have also provided some of my experience as a former police officer and collection of evidence


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at the aerial photo and pointed out what the police report said, which indicates the altercation took place further down that courtyard than where the photo is marked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using the information Paperview provided?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was responding specifically to the aerial photo she posted by sourcing the police report, and referencing news videos/photos:
> 
> _I think* if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was  further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway*; the officer  (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821  Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821  address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman.  Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still  photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight  took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> _Now if you want to call that "using", knock yourself out.
Click to expand...


Yes that is the specific question are you using the information provided by paperview? If you are what is the experience of the people who collected the evidence in crime seine investigation?


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using the information Paperview provided?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was responding specifically to the aerial photo she posted by sourcing the police report, and referencing news videos/photos:
> 
> _I think* if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was  further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway*; the officer  (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821  Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821  address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman.  Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still  photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight  took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> _Now if you want to call that "using", knock yourself out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes that is the specific question are you using the information provided by paperview? If you are what is the experience of the people who collected the evidence in crime seine investigation?
Click to expand...


I don't know how to make it any clearer. MY point in that post was that the place marked in the aerial view is incorrect, according to the addresses and narrative in the police report.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was responding specifically to the aerial photo she posted by sourcing the police report, and referencing news videos/photos:
> 
> _I think* if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was  further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway*; the officer  (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821  Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821  address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman.  Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still  photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight  took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> _Now if you want to call that "using", knock yourself out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that is the specific question are you using the information provided by paperview? If you are what is the experience of the people who collected the evidence in crime seine investigation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know how to make it any clearer. MY point in that post was that the place marked in the aerial view is incorrect, according to the addresses and narrative in the police report.
Click to expand...


And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that is the specific question are you using the information provided by paperview? If you are what is the experience of the people who collected the evidence in crime seine investigation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how to make it any clearer. MY point in that post was that the place marked in the aerial view is incorrect, according to the addresses and narrative in the police report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.
Click to expand...


I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image. 

That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter _what_ Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts *cannot* be true.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how to make it any clearer. MY point in that post was that the place marked in the aerial view is incorrect, according to the addresses and narrative in the police report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image.
> 
> That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter _what_ Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts *cannot* be true.
Click to expand...

OK like I said earlier I heard the distance from where the shooting took place and Zimmerman's truck was 150 feet. If that is true let's use my formula to show it is possible that his truck could be that far from the area of the shooting



> 150 feet is not that far
> 150 feet = 50 yards
> The avg. person can run the 40 yard dash in 6 seconds.
> If Trayvon took off running and Zimmerman got out of his truck and followed Trayvon. If you listen to the 911 video from the time of the ding ding ding sound of keys in the ignition and the time he stops huffing and puffing when the dispatcher says he does not need to follow Trayvon that's about 8 to 9 seconds. He could have gotten that far.



I will also add that they could have come in contact with each other closer than 150 but with the fight moved further away.


----------



## paperview

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
Click to expand...

Yes, Emma. It was at that address, but look at another map. It could not have been that far down in the courtyard.  The red star was a little higher than it could have been, but only by a hair.

 Here's another map.  






Now the above source is from an one I am not familiar with, but the author breaks it down with what looks credible. 

(Also, note the police report said he was _responding to 1111 Retreat View _...)



> Google Maps and Zillow;
> Zimmerman's call to 911 [transcript], in which he gives directions to his parked car;
> The City of Sanford initial police report, which indicates the police found the body in the walkway between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle;
> film footage the night of the crime and following day from Fox Orlando;
> a neighborhood shot from the Tampa Bay Times;
> and MapQuest, which locates a 7-Eleven at 1125 Rinehart Rd, Sanford FL  (GoogleMaps consistently overlooks this).  That is about 3/4 mile from  the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and the logical approach would be by way of  the main gate.
> The gist - Trayvon Martin seemed to have been on a logical path home,  which would have ended in the back yard of the home he was visiting  after passing down an open walkway.  He was roughly a hundred yards from  home when he was shot.
> George Zimmerman parked near the intersection of a pedestrian walkway  and Twin Trees Lane.  He was roughly thirty yards from his car when he  fired the fatal shot.


(See above map)




> The blue circle is the likely location of George Zimmerman's car.   Let's follow along on the 911 transcript as he describes his location to  the police, with my notes embedded:
> Zimmerman: If they come in through the  gate, tell them to go straight  past the club house, and uh, straight  past the club house and make a  left [_onto Twin Trees Lane_], and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my  truck...[unintelligible]
> Dispatcher: What address are you parked in  front of?
> Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know  the address.
> The obvious cut through area is circled in blue


Again, the author is working off the available information on the net - not as the previous fellows who went to the area, talked to the neighbors, and took the pictures.



> "...some stills from the Fox Orlando footage.   I assert, using my imagination and keying off of the pooper scooper,  that the Fox camera was located on Retreat View Circle at the red "Fox  35" label, looking along the red arrow towards the crime scene.  Here we  go:
> 
> 
> The pooper scooper is obvious, as is the sidewalk; that ought to be Twin Trees Lane in the background.  Another shot:
> 
> 
> 
> The back of the pooper scooper is visible; the sidewalk pattern near the street jibes nicely with the Fox35 location I marked.
> Finally, the Fox report concludes with a chat with Trayvon's dad and  his significant other; they take a quick walk down the commons area,  turn, and look dramatically at... well, not much, but the situation  strongly suggests it is where Martin was killed.


There's more here that outlines it further: JustOneMinute: Last Map Of The Retreat At Twin Lakes


Not sure how much credence I can give to the above, but it appears logical to me.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, Emma. It was at that address, but look at another map. It could not have been that far down in the courtyard.  The red star was a little higher than it could have been, but only by a hair.
> 
> Here's another map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the above source is from an one I am not familiar with, but the author breaks it down with what looks credible.
> 
> (Also, note the police report said he was _responding to a call_ that was_ reported_ in the area of...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps and Zillow;
> Zimmerman's call to 911 [transcript], in which he gives directions to his parked car;
> The City of Sanford initial police report, which indicates the police found the body in the walkway between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle;
> film footage the night of the crime and following day from Fox Orlando;
> a neighborhood shot from the Tampa Bay Times;
> and MapQuest, which locates a 7-Eleven at 1125 Rinehart Rd, Sanford FL  (GoogleMaps consistently overlooks this).  That is about 3/4 mile from  the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and the logical approach would be by way of  the main gate.
> The gist - Trayvon Martin seemed to have been on a logical path home,  which would have ended in the back yard of the home he was visiting  after passing down an open walkway.  He was roughly a hundred yards from  home when he was shot.
> George Zimmerman parked near the intersection of a pedestrian walkway  and Twin Trees Lane.  He was roughly thirty yards from his car when he  fired the fatal shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (See above map)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blue circle is the likely location of George Zimmerman's car.   Let's follow along on the 911 transcript as he describes his location to  the police, with my notes embedded:
> Zimmerman: If they come in through the  gate, tell them to go straight  past the club house, and uh, straight  past the club house and make a  left [_onto Twin Trees Lane_], and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my  truck...[unintelligible]
> Dispatcher: What address are you parked in  front of?
> Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know  the address.
> The obvious cut through area is circled in blue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, the author is working off the available information on the net - not as the previous fellows who went to the area, talked to the neighbors, and took the pictures.
> 
> some stills from the Fox Orlando footage.   I assert, using my imagination and keying off of the pooper scooper,  that the Fox camera was located on Retreat View Circle at the red "Fox  35" label, looking along the red arrow towards the crime scene.  Here we  go:
> 
> 
> The pooper scooper is obvious, as is the sidewalk; that ought to be Twin Trees Lane in the background.  Another shot:
> 
> 
> 
> The back of the pooper scooper is visible; the sidewalk pattern near the street jibes nicely with the Fox35 location I marked.
> Finally, the Fox report concludes with a chat with Trayvon's dad and  his significant other; they take a quick walk down the commons area,  turn, and look dramatically at... well, not much, but the situation  strongly suggests it is where Martin was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's more here that outlines it further: JustOneMinute: Last Map Of The Retreat At Twin Lakes
> 
> 
> Not sure how much credence I can give to the above, but it appears logical to me.
Click to expand...


Again more evidence? What is those people's training in collecting evidence?


----------



## paperview

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Again more evidence? What is those people's training in collecting evidence?


I really don't give a crap what you think about my posts, dimreb.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again more evidence? What is those people's training in collecting evidence?
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't give a crap what you think about my posts, dimreb.
Click to expand...


Dumb ass if you want to use evidence that is incorrect and would be inadmissible in court knock yourself out.


----------



## paperview

I'm not in a fucking courtroom, idiot.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> I'm not in a fucking courtroom, idiot.


But you are trying to make a point of Zimmerman's guilty aren't you? Why not try that with the evidence the police have and have submitted for public viewing. Instead of using untested evidence that can be inaccurate


----------



## paperview

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how to make it any clearer. MY point in that post was that the place marked in the aerial view is incorrect, according to the addresses and narrative in the police report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image.
> 
> That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter _what_ Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts *cannot* be true.
Click to expand...

Have you seen this video from the night after the shooting Emm?

Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

This is where we first heard from "John" -- who wierdly the Fox news affiliate reported weeks after saying he was "a new witness" - even though the affiliate had him on tape Feb 27th. They even used the same footage from the Feb 27th taping. 
lol.


----------



## Si modo

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image.
> 
> That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter _what_ Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts *cannot* be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you seen this video from the night after the shooting Emm?
> 
> Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
> 
> This is where we first heard from "John" -- who wierdly the Fox news affiliate reported weeks after saying he was "a new witness" - even though the affiliate had him on tape Feb 27th. They even used the same footage from the Feb 27th taping.
> lol.
Click to expand...

Yes, she has.  We've even noted that the grammar issues in his statement to the affiliate make it unclear.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image.
> 
> That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter _what_ Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts *cannot* be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you seen this video from the night after the shooting Emm?
> 
> Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
> 
> This is where we first heard from "John" -- who wierdly the Fox news affiliate reported weeks after saying he was "a new witness" - even though the affiliate had him on tape Feb 27th. They even used the same footage from the Feb 27th taping.
> lol.
Click to expand...


Was John a witness? Did he see what happen? What does it matter about FOX news reporting it and reporting it again as a new witness?


----------



## luv4God_Country

About this Treyvon Martin deal ~ it really ticks me off that these Civil Rights Leaders and the President are all over this incident, along with the Black Panthers, who pretty much put a bounty on Zimmerman's head! Obama was out of line making his presidental speech about the incident. I ask you this: Would President Obama do the same thing if it were a white teen shot by a black man? What about Zimmerman's civil rights? Shouldn't these Civil Rights Leaders be standing up for everyone's civil rights, not just people of their color? I'm not just referring to this particular incident. What about the homicide that took place in Portland, Oregon when 55-year-old Jesus Rodriguez-Garcia was beaten so severely he died after 10 days in the hospital. The four men, ranging in age from 26-38, and ethnic background, broke into his home with brass knuckles, baseball bat and hand gun. This crime was premeditated!  Why wasn't this brought out into national headlines, or any of the other tens of thousands of homicide cases when blacks are murdering whites and hispanics? Keyword here, murder; NOT self-defense!


----------



## Foxfyre

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope everyone listens to that youtube you put up.  It shows what a dishonest piece of shit your are.  "Fucking coons" is clearly audible.  People might also wish to go to the original, to see how you changed the title.   You're a real lowlife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to.  Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube.   That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording.  The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.
Click to expand...


Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another.  Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law.  I don't know.  Nobody else here knows.

I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.

In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another.  Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.


----------



## JimBowie1958

luv4God_Country said:


> What about the homicide that took place in Portland, Oregon when 55-year-old Jesus Rodriguez-Garcia was beaten so severely he died after 10 days in the hospital. The four men, ranging in age from 26-38, and ethnic background, broke into his home with brass knuckles, baseball bat and hand gun. This crime was premeditated!  Why wasn't this brought out into national headlines, or any of the other tens of thousands of homicide cases when blacks are murdering whites and hispanics? Keyword here, murder; NOT self-defense!



Because that story does not play into the over-arching libtard them of 'stand your ground laws are evil'.

If they did then we would hear about them ad-nauseum.

Another case the libtards are hyping is that of a guy who got shot in FL right after passage of the law. He got shot by a neighbor as the shootee was trying to force his way into the home of the shooter.

It didnt get much sympathy from anyone, so it was left alone.

Just shows how thin the examples are of abuse of these laws and in the long run the will be even more demand for them especially after Sharptons incited riots break out.


----------



## LilOlLady

*ZIMMERMANS MEDICAL RECORDS.*

Zimmermans medical records may show a broken nose but cannot show  *when, where or how* he got the broken nose. He did not go into ER until the *next day* for medical attention. Any thing could have happen between the *time of the incident and the time he entered ER*.
*
Desperate times call for desperate measures*
Sir Walter Scott, 

In an interview with WOFL, the Fox station in Orlando, Zimmerman's father says the neighborhood watch volunteer deemed Martin suspicious because he was *walking in the rain* between townhouses, instead of on the street or the sidewalk. He adds that *Zimmerman kept following Martin *after the police dispatcher suggested that he stop because he wanted to get an address from one of the houses so he would know where exactly he was in the development.
Did Police and Paramedics Conspire to Invent George Zimmerman's Injuries? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine


So, police at the scene of the murder and Sanford Fire Department Rescue 38 thought George's injuries did not require him be put in an ambulance for treatment, rather, his *injuries only required first aid in the back seat of a cop car *and then *"cleared"* him for any: *concussion, swelling or bleeding of the brain, whiplash, broken nose and no bandage to cover alleged open head wound*.
Daily Kos: Zimmerman Received First Aid in the Back Seat of a Police Car & Not Ambulance - that makes no sense


----------



## LilOlLady

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to.  Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube.   That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording.  The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another.  Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law.  I don't know.  Nobody else here knows.
> 
> *I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.*
> 
> In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another.  Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.
Click to expand...


Of course not because if a black man had killed him and claimed self defense he would have been arrested and setting in prison by now. Or like Emit Till would not even have a trial just hung up. How old are you anyway child?


----------



## Foxfyre

LilOlLady said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another.  Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law.  I don't know.  Nobody else here knows.
> 
> *I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.*
> 
> In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another.  Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not because if a black man had killed him and claimed self defense he would have been arrested and setting in prison by now. Or like Emit Till would not even have a trial just hung up. How old are you anyway child?
Click to expand...


Do you know that for a fact given Florida's new 'stand your ground' law?  Are you suggesting that the entire Sanford Police force is racist and would have treated a black man differently than they treated Zimmerman?  How many of the officers reporting to the scene were themselves black?   Do we know that?   Can you show that a black man in similar circumstances has been arrested in Flordia since that law was passed while Zimmerman was not?

Can you answer such questions without going ad homiinem and being personally insulting?

(And I'm old enough I think to go one on one with you.)


----------



## California Girl

Emma said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Police arrived within a minute of the shooting. He recovered from that severe brain injury pretty damned fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.
> 
> Take Boxing or MMA.  Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.
> 
> Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked  unconscious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
Click to expand...


I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later. 

So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him. 

Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.


----------



## paperview

LilOlLady said:


> *ZIMMERMANS MEDICAL RECORDS.*
> 
> Zimmermans medical records may show a broken nose but cannot show  *when, where or how* he got the broken nose. He did not go into ER until the *next day* for medical attention. Any thing could have happen between the *time of the incident and the time he entered ER*.
> *
> Desperate times call for desperate measures*
> Sir Walter Scott,
> 
> In an interview with WOFL, the Fox station in Orlando, Zimmerman's father says the neighborhood watch volunteer deemed Martin suspicious because he was *walking in the rain* between townhouses, instead of on the street or the sidewalk. He adds that *Zimmerman kept following Martin *after the police dispatcher suggested that he stop because he wanted to get an address from one of the houses so he would know where exactly he was in the development.
> Did Police and Paramedics Conspire to Invent George Zimmerman's Injuries? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
> 
> 
> So, police at the scene of the murder and Sanford Fire Department Rescue 38 thought George's injuries did not require him be put in an ambulance for treatment, rather, his *injuries only required first aid in the back seat of a cop car *and then *"cleared"* him for any: *concussion, swelling or bleeding of the brain, whiplash, broken nose and no bandage to cover alleged open head wound*.
> Daily Kos: Zimmerman Received First Aid in the Back Seat of a Police Car & Not Ambulance - that makes no sense


Yeah, that part about him only being treated for a few minutes in the back of the police car, and (if you believe the "enhance" screen shot DC defenders,) walking around the place with AN OPEN HEAD WOUND~ well, dang, what ahootenanny.

Hey everyone!  Look a that gash in the back of his head!  Healed up in 10 minutes.  Jesus must have laid his hands on him in the po-lice car and made him all better!


----------



## bigrebnc1775

California Girl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.
> 
> Take Boxing or MMA.  Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.
> 
> Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked  unconscious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Foxfyre said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to.  Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube.   That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording.  The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another.  Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law.  I don't know.  Nobody else here knows.
> 
> I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.
> 
> In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another.  Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.
Click to expand...


I agree 100%


----------



## ABikerSailor

California Girl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.
> 
> Take Boxing or MMA.  Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.
> 
> Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked  unconscious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
Click to expand...


Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.

But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?


----------



## paperview

ABikerSailor said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.
> 
> But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?
Click to expand...

Actually the medic there was Sanford Fire Dept Rescue.

So there were.


----------



## Foxfyre

I was just going to say that the paramedics on the scene who were trying to revive Martin almost certainly also treated Zimmerman.  And what they treated will be evidence available to the Grand Jury investigation.


----------



## Peach

Foxfyre said:


> I was just going to say that the paramedics on the scene who were trying to revive Martin almost certainly also treated Zimmerman.  And what they treated will be evidence available to the Grand Jury investigation.



IF a Grand Jury convenes that is; the SP has stated she may not need one.


----------



## Si modo

Foxfyre said:


> I was just going to say that the paramedics on the scene who were trying to revive Martin almost certainly also treated Zimmerman.  And what they treated will be evidence available to the Grand Jury investigation.


The paramedics DID treat Zimmerman at the scene - "bleeding from his nose and back of his head" and "was given aid by SFD" (reported by Ofc. Timothy Smith) - according to the police report that has been released by the city of Sanford.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.
> 
> But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?
Click to expand...

That's simply not true.  Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.

That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.
> 
> But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's simply not true.  Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.
> 
> That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.
Click to expand...


There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.

By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.

Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.

Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.
> 
> But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?
> 
> 
> 
> That's simply not true.  Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.
> 
> That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
Click to expand...

You think they paid the witnesses to make corroborating statements, too?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's simply not true.  Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.
> 
> That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think they paid the witnesses to make corroborating statements, too?
Click to expand...


Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.


----------



## Foxfyre

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.
> 
> But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?
> 
> 
> 
> That's simply not true.  Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.
> 
> That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
Click to expand...


But what you think is not pertinent to the facts.  What you think might be 180 from the way it actually was.  What the race baiters want you to believe and what they have reported and shown on television or on the internet may or may not be honest reporting.

The fact is that none of us know.  But if the truth is that it was exactly the way Zimmerman is reported to have told it, then convicting him in the media, on the internet, and in the court of public opinion is a gross miscarriage of justice.  And damage will have been done to his reputation and his peace and that of his family that won't be corrected or taken back.  And that doesn't even include those who will be out for his blood or head on a platter regardless of what the verdict ultimately is.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
> 
> 
> 
> You think they paid the witnesses to make corroborating statements, too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.
Click to expand...

So, this is all a grand conspiracy without any foundation to believe it is other than the fact that Zimmerman's father is a retired magistrate.

Well, even magistrate's offspring are allowed equal treatment under the law.

Conspiracy.  That's a new approach.  And, it's often the approach of those whose minds are convinced one way, yet the facts contradict that idea.  911ers, birthers, moon landers, etc. - all the same.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Foxfyre said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's simply not true.  Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.
> 
> That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what you think is not pertinent to the facts.  What you think might be 180 from the way it actually was.  What the race baiters want you to believe and what they have reported and shown on television or on the internet may or may not be honest reporting.
> 
> The fact is that none of us know.  But if the truth is that it was exactly the way Zimmerman is reported to have told it, then convicting him in the media, on the internet, and in the court of public opinion is a gross miscarriage of justice.  And damage will have been done to his reputation and his peace and that of his family that won't be corrected or taken back.  And that doesn't even include those who will be out for his blood or head on a platter regardless of what the verdict ultimately is.
Click to expand...


Based on the things that have been released in the media, along with the stories that Zimmerman not quite adding up to what we can see happened, I'd still like a good answer as to why they didn't give a tox screen to Zimmerman?  They did to Martin.

The undertaker who received Martin's body said that the only evidence of trauma to his body was the gunshot wound.  If Martin actually did beat Zimmerman like he said, why was there no trauma to his hands or knuckles in the form of bruises?

Me personally?  I'd like to see him booked (and if he bonds out, so be it) and stand a trial because there are way too many inconsistencies with this case.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
> 
> 
> 
> You think they paid the witnesses to make corroborating statements, too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.
Click to expand...

Based on race, likely.  Right?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think they paid the witnesses to make corroborating statements, too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Based on race, likely.  Right?
Click to expand...


Actually, I'd say it was based more on if they agreed with Zimmerman's account or not.

For example.........look at that idiot Joe Oliver.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what you think is not pertinent to the facts.  What you think might be 180 from the way it actually was.  What the race baiters want you to believe and what they have reported and shown on television or on the internet may or may not be honest reporting.
> 
> The fact is that none of us know.  But if the truth is that it was exactly the way Zimmerman is reported to have told it, then convicting him in the media, on the internet, and in the court of public opinion is a gross miscarriage of justice.  And damage will have been done to his reputation and his peace and that of his family that won't be corrected or taken back.  And that doesn't even include those who will be out for his blood or head on a platter regardless of what the verdict ultimately is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on the things that have been released in the media, along with the stories that Zimmerman not quite adding up to what we can see happened, I'd still like a good answer as to why they didn't give a tox screen to Zimmerman?  They did to Martin.
> 
> The undertaker who received Martin's body said that the only evidence of trauma to his body was the gunshot wound.  If Martin actually did beat Zimmerman like he said, why was there no trauma to his hands or knuckles in the form of bruises?
> 
> Me personally?  I'd like to see him booked (and if he bonds out, so be it) and stand a trial because there are way too many inconsistencies with this case.
Click to expand...

First of all, a funeral director is not trained in forensics or medicine.

Secondly, think about contusions you've had.  Are they black and blue within minutes of the injury?  Not any I've ever had have been.

So, if the shooting took place at approximately 19:15 on 2/26/2012 (just minutes after Zimmerman made his first call - before any physical fight), and the cops arrived two minutes later and found no heartbeat on the kid and that heartbeat was never restored, how did the blood make it to the site of the bruise in enough time for a bruise to show?


----------



## saveliberty

Too much crap from both sides on this.  Unsubscribe.


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on race, likely.  Right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I'd say it was based more on if they agreed with Zimmerman's account or not.
> 
> For example.........look at that idiot Joe Oliver.
Click to expand...

And, how would the witnesses at the scene know Zimmerman's account when he had yet to express it?


----------



## paperview

Is it just me, or is this a reallllly stooopid headline:
*EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin*


Read more: EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin - NY Daily News
​


----------



## Si modo

paperview said:


> Is it just me, or is this a reallllly stooopid headline:
> *EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin*
> 
> 
> Read more: EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin - NY Daily News
> ​




No, it's not just you!


----------



## ABikerSailor

paperview said:


> Is it just me, or is this a reallllly stooopid headline:
> *EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin*
> 
> 
> Read more: EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin - NY Daily News
> ​



Agreed.  It should have said Zimmerman did not sustain SERIOUS injuries, because if he sustained fatal injuries he would have been in the morgue as well.

Yes, I'm speaking out about the stupidity coming from the Martin camp as well.


----------



## LilOlLady

*DEADLY FORCE NOT NESSARY BUT WAS A CHOICE.*

Zimmerman *obviously had self defense training in the police academy *and yet he want us to believe that this *140lb boy who may have punched him, knocking  him down, straddling him, pinning both his hands down, holding his head in his hands banging it up and down on the side walk and he was not able to free his hands *and *punch this kid* off of him *but he was able to unstrap his holster, get it gun, bring it mid chest to this boy and pull the trigger*. If his hands were free he could have* easily fought this boy off*. Rather he *made the choice to shoot  him *instead. His life was not threatened to the point that he needed to use deadly force.
I, a 72 year old woman with MS, reenacted the scene with my 25 year old, 170 lb grandson and *he was not able to restrain both my hands*.

Zimmerman attended a* four-month law-enforcement program *in 2008 at the sheriff's office, said Kim Cannaday, spokeswoman for the Seminole County sheriff's 
Neighbors describe watch leader at center of Florida investigation - CNN


Robert Zimmerman, 64, said the *teen confronted his son when he got back to his car *that day. When his son started reaching for his cellphone, Martin "*was punching him in the nose, his nose was broken and he was knocked to the concrete."*
Supporters of Fla. shooter fearful of speaking out | Seattle Times Newspaper

But it appears that the incident went down* inside *the complex. Where was zimmermans car parked?

George Zimmerman described as a 'caring person,' had run-ins with the law
George Zimmerman described as a 'caring person,' had run-ins with the law | McClatchy


----------



## Si modo

LilOlLady said:


> *DEADLY FORCE NOT NESSARY BUT WAS A CHOICE.*
> 
> Zimmerman *obviously had self defense training in the police academy *and yet he want us to believe that this *140lb boy who may have punched him, knocking  him down, straddling him, pinning both his hands down, holding his head in his hands banging it up and down on the side walk and he was not able to free his hands *and *punch this kid* off of him *but he was able to unstrap his holster, get it gun, bring it mid chest to this boy and pull the trigger*. If his hands were free he could have* easily fought this boy off*. Rather he *made the choice to shoot  him *instead. His life was not threatened to the point that he needed to use deadly force.
> I, a 72 year old woman with MS, reenacted the scene with my 25 year old, 170 lb grandson and *he was not able to restrain both my hands*.
> 
> Zimmerman attended a* four-month law-enforcement program *in 2008 at the sheriff's office, said Kim Cannaday, spokeswoman for the Seminole County sheriff's
> Neighbors describe watch leader at center of Florida investigation - CNN
> 
> 
> Robert Zimmerman, 64, said the *teen confronted his son when he got back to his car *that day. When his son started reaching for his cellphone, Martin "*was punching him in the nose, his nose was broken and he was knocked to the concrete."*
> Supporters of Fla. shooter fearful of speaking out | Seattle Times Newspaper
> 
> But it appears that the incident went down* inside *the complex. Where was zimmermans car parked?
> 
> George Zimmerman described as a 'caring person,' had run-ins with the law
> George Zimmerman described as a 'caring person,' had run-ins with the law | McClatchy


Oh?  Zimmerman went to the police academy?

Link?


----------



## LilOlLady

Si modo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just going to say that the paramedics on the scene who were trying to revive Martin almost certainly also treated Zimmerman.  And what they treated will be evidence available to the Grand Jury investigation.
> 
> 
> 
> The paramedics DID treat Zimmerman at the scene - "bleeding from his nose and back of his head" and "was given aid by SFD" (reported by Ofc. Timothy Smith) - according to the police report that has been released by the city of Sanford.
Click to expand...


And they washed his shirt? It is hard to belive he had a broken nose and cuts on the back of his head from banging on the concrete and no blood on his shirt and on dressing on this head. Why didn't zimmerman bleed?


----------



## Si modo

LilOlLady said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just going to say that the paramedics on the scene who were trying to revive Martin almost certainly also treated Zimmerman.  And what they treated will be evidence available to the Grand Jury investigation.
> 
> 
> 
> The paramedics DID treat Zimmerman at the scene - "bleeding from his nose and back of his head" and "was given aid by SFD" (reported by Ofc. Timothy Smith) - according to the police report that has been released by the city of Sanford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And they washed his shirt? It is hard to belive he had a broken nose and cuts on the back of his head from banging on the concrete and no blood on his shirt and on dressing on this head. Why didn't zimmerman bleed?
Click to expand...

The cop report said he did.

You should read it.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The paramedics DID treat Zimmerman at the scene - "bleeding from his nose and back of his head" and "was given aid by SFD" (reported by Ofc. Timothy Smith) - according to the police report that has been released by the city of Sanford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they washed his shirt? It is hard to belive he had a broken nose and cuts on the back of his head from banging on the concrete and no blood on his shirt and on dressing on this head. Why didn't zimmerman bleed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The cop report said he did.
> 
> You should read it.
Click to expand...


But the evidence shown on tape doesn't show any blood, broken nose, or head wounds.  Sorry, but bald heads shine and scabbed heads DON'T.  

And, if they actually DID treat him for a broken nose, why was there no black eyes or nose splint?

It wouldn't be the first time that a cop wrote a bogus report to cover their ass.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Well the last 50 pages here have ignored all fact and reason and everyone has made up their minds one way or the other.

Haters are going to hate, and those who want blood won't give up no matter what the police or even a grand jury say.

I can't read any more of this shit. I'll wait for the facts that actually are verified and brought out in court, if there is one....

Unsubscribe........


----------



## Si modo

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> And they washed his shirt? It is hard to belive he had a broken nose and cuts on the back of his head from banging on the concrete and no blood on his shirt and on dressing on this head. Why didn't zimmerman bleed?
> 
> 
> 
> The cop report said he did.
> 
> You should read it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the evidence shown on tape doesn't show any blood, broken nose, or head wounds.  Sorry, but bald heads shine and scabbed heads DON'T.
> 
> And, if they actually DID treat him for a broken nose, why was there no black eyes or nose splint?
> 
> It wouldn't be the first time that a cop wrote a bogus report to cover their ass.
Click to expand...

I've had a broken nose.  My eyes never got black nor did I need a splint.

EMTs clean blood up from the skin (too much of a medium for bacterial growth).  EMTs also use liquid bandages and/or butterfly bandages, at least around here.

The tape at the cop station certainly doesn't show a "gash", as earlier described.  It's also not a great video, so I don't see it confirming anything or ruling anything out, either (except for the "gash").  Also, I am pretty sure the cops took pics of him - that would be SOP and I've seen nothing yet to indicate that they have a propensity to do anything other than SOP.


----------



## Si modo

SFC Ollie said:


> Well the last 50 pages here have ignored all fact and reason and *everyone has made up their minds one way or the other.
> *
> Haters are going to hate, and those who want blood won't give up no matter what the police or even a grand jury say.
> 
> I can't read any more of this shit. I'll wait for the facts that actually are verified and brought out in court, if there is one....
> 
> Unsubscribe........


I haven't.  Don't presume that about me.  Otherwise, I wouldn't be asking questions.


----------



## Foxfyre

Si modo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the last 50 pages here have ignored all fact and reason and *everyone has made up their minds one way or the other.
> *
> Haters are going to hate, and those who want blood won't give up no matter what the police or even a grand jury say.
> 
> I can't read any more of this shit. I'll wait for the facts that actually are verified and brought out in court, if there is one....
> 
> Unsubscribe........
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't.  Don't presume that about me.  Otherwise, I wouldn't be asking questions.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure Ollie didn't have you in mind with that post, Si Modo, or any of the few of us who have not rushed to judgment one way or the other on this.  He is probably right that it is futile to try to get people to see how this kind of media or message board speculation, most especially those celebrities who have rushed to judgment, are violating every principle of justice and/or fair play.

You and I (and he) have tried.

And we probably are spinning our wheels.


----------



## Ravi

saveliberty said:


> Perhaps it exists in another thread then.  koshergrl posted it.  The article was voicing opinions from neighbors concerning Mr. Zimmerman.  There are so many threads about this its ridiculous.  Regardless the dishonesty rests with koshergrl.
> 
> Double checked all of koshergrl's posts from yesterday.  Looks like she deleted the post completely.


How surprising.


----------



## Ravi

SFC Ollie said:


> You know, not one of us has any better idea than another as to what happened that night.
> 
> And what really pisses me off is that the true racist fucks are right now; as I type this;  gathering in Sanford to protest the police department.... The NAACP and I heard La Raza (Maybe they hadn't heard that Zimmerman is Hispanic) Anyway, they want blood, and they are as normal,WRONG.......



Oh, no! Not La Raza, they are so EVIL!!! Aren't they Mexicans???? *shudder*

/sarcasm


----------



## Ravi

paperview said:


> Is it just me, or is this a reallllly stooopid headline:
> *EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin*
> 
> 
> Read more: EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin - NY Daily News
> ​



lol, yes it is very stupid.

I believe the should have said that Zimmerman's injuries (or lack of) weren't life threatening.


----------



## Dick Tuck

California Girl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.
> 
> Take Boxing or MMA.  Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.
> 
> Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked  unconscious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
Click to expand...


Did they do your laundry?  No blood on the shirt.  All's well, assuming that the detectives took photos of the wounds.  That would be standard procedure, wouldn't it?


----------



## Dick Tuck

paperview said:


> Is it just me, or is this a reallllly stooopid headline:
> *EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin*
> 
> 
> Read more: EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin - NY Daily News
> ​



Looks like the editor caught it.  Here's what it says now:



> On Friday, the Daily News obtained EMS documents suggesting Zimmerman, who an ex-colleague said was fired from a security job for being too aggressive, did not sustain serious injuries in the fatal encounter.



The headline now reads:

Funeral director says Trayvon's body showed no signs of brawl
Examination showed no indication of fighting aside from fatal gunshot wound to chest



Read more: Funeral director says Trayvon's body showed no signs of brawl - NY Daily News

Damn writers always think ahead, and screw things up.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Dick Tuck said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they do your laundry?  No blood on the shirt.  All's well, assuming that the detectives took photos of the wounds.  That would be standard procedure, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...


Liar the police took what clothes Zimmerman had on as evidence.


----------



## Emma

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this earlier:
> 
> I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:
> 
> This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, Emma. It was at that address, but look at another map. It could not have been that far down in the courtyard.  The red star was a little higher than it could have been, but only by a hair.
> 
> 
> Not sure how much credence I can give to the above, but it appears logical to me.
Click to expand...


Yes thanks, that map is great. The notation where 2821 is (or is it 2831? I didn't want to copy the long post over) really helps, too. I had tried to find an aerial view the other day without much luck. There is a new tape out with the EMS / dispatchers talking about the location as behind that address.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Emma. It was at that address, but look at another map. It could not have been that far down in the courtyard.  The red star was a little higher than it could have been, but only by a hair.
> 
> 
> Not sure how much credence I can give to the above, but it appears logical to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes thanks, that map is great. The notation where 2821 is (or is it 2831? I didn't want to copy the long post over) really helps, too. I had tried to find an aerial view the other day without much luck. There is a new tape out with the EMS / dispatchers talking about the location as behind that address.
Click to expand...


The map would not be allowed in court as evidence, unless it was what was used by the police. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? You are try to show guilt or innocence of a person with evidence not used by the police. You might as well add Zimmerman had help from other people holding Trayvon down while he held the gun to Trayvons head. Might as well add that in the evidence.


----------



## Emma

LilOlLady said:


> *ZIMMERMAN&#8217;S MEDICAL RECORDS.*
> 
> Zimmerman&#8217;s medical records may show a broken nose but cannot show  *&#8220;when, where or how&#8221;* he got the broken nose. He did not go into ER until the *&#8220;next day&#8221;* for medical attention. Any thing could have happen between the *time of the incident and the time he entered ER*.
> *
> &#8220;Desperate times call for desperate measures&#8221;*
> Sir Walter Scott,
> 
> In an interview with WOFL, the Fox station in Orlando, Zimmerman's father says the neighborhood watch volunteer deemed Martin suspicious because he was *walking in the rain* between townhouses, instead of on the street or the sidewalk. He adds that *Zimmerman kept following Martin *after the police dispatcher suggested that he stop because he wanted to get an address from one of the houses so he would know where exactly he was in the development.
> Did Police and Paramedics Conspire to Invent George Zimmerman's Injuries? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> So, police at the scene of the murder and Sanford Fire Department Rescue 38 thought George's injuries did not require him be put in an ambulance for treatment, rather, his *injuries only required first aid in the back seat of a cop car *and then *"cleared"* him for any: *concussion, swelling or bleeding of the brain, whiplash, broken nose and no bandage to cover alleged open head wound*.
> Daily Kos: Zimmerman Received First Aid in the Back Seat of a Police Car & Not Ambulance - that makes no sense



I don't think they could have 'cleared' a broken nose. That would have to be determined by xray. When I read 'cleared', I took it to mean that either the injuries were not deemed severe enough to warrant an ED evaluation OR Zimmerman refused treatment --- although Bigreb indicated that the officers would have taken him in if the paramedics said to. 

As far as him being in the police car, that isn't an issue IMO ... they don't need to be in the ambulance to treat him. There was only one ambulance on scene and I would suspect Martin had already been placed there.

I do think it's interesting that Zimmerman's father first told the media George didn't follow ... now he's saying his son DID follow Martin. 

Maddening.


----------



## Peach

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Emma. It was at that address, but look at another map. It could not have been that far down in the courtyard.  The red star was a little higher than it could have been, but only by a hair.
> 
> 
> Not sure how much credence I can give to the above, but it appears logical to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes thanks, that map is great. The notation where 2821 is (or is it 2831? I didn't want to copy the long post over) really helps, too. I had tried to find an aerial view the other day without much luck. There is a new tape out with the EMS / dispatchers talking about the location as behind that address.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The map would not be allowed in court as evidence, unless it was what was used by the police. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? You are try to show guilt or innocence of a person with evidence not used by the police. You might as well add Zimmerman had help from other people holding Trayvon down while he held the gun to Trayvons head. Might as well add that in the evidence.
Click to expand...


There can be a "razor thin" line on STAND YOUR GROUND, it appears: 

A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com


----------



## Emma

California Girl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.
> 
> Take Boxing or MMA.  Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.
> 
> Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked  unconscious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
Click to expand...


I just have some serious questions about Zimmerman's account. He just didn't look like someone who'd been brutally beaten only 30-some minutes beforehand.


----------



## GUNSIDEAUG

THEY WERE JUST 2 WHITE PEOPLE  ( NOT NEWS WORTHY )   + DIDN`T LOOK LIKE OBAMAS SON MIGHT HAVE  

 James Kouzaris and James Cooper's friends criticise Obama for lack of compassion | Mail Online


----------



## bigrebnc1775

GUNSIDEAUG said:


> THEY WERE JUST 2 WHITE PEOPLE  ( NOT NEWS WORTHY )   + DIDN`T LOOK LIKE OBAMAS SON MIGHT HAVE
> 
> James Kouzaris and James Cooper's friends criticise Obama for lack of compassion | Mail Online



No they were the little boy walking his dog was black and only the police and the report know the race of John the person who did not want to be shown on TV. But he did sound like he was white.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?



There you are. 

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.


----------



## Emma

ABikerSailor said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never said that.
> 
> But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do _that_ with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.
> 
> Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.
> 
> George's brother is full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.
> 
> So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.
> 
> Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.
> 
> But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?
Click to expand...


Paramedic(s) were there.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ZIMMERMANS MEDICAL RECORDS.*
> 
> Zimmermans medical records may show a broken nose but cannot show  *when, where or how* he got the broken nose. He did not go into ER until the *next day* for medical attention. Any thing could have happen between the *time of the incident and the time he entered ER*.
> *
> Desperate times call for desperate measures*
> Sir Walter Scott,
> 
> In an interview with WOFL, the Fox station in Orlando, Zimmerman's father says the neighborhood watch volunteer deemed Martin suspicious because he was *walking in the rain* between townhouses, instead of on the street or the sidewalk. He adds that *Zimmerman kept following Martin *after the police dispatcher suggested that he stop because he wanted to get an address from one of the houses so he would know where exactly he was in the development.
> Did Police and Paramedics Conspire to Invent George Zimmerman's Injuries? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> So, police at the scene of the murder and Sanford Fire Department Rescue 38 thought George's injuries did not require him be put in an ambulance for treatment, rather, his *injuries only required first aid in the back seat of a cop car *and then *"cleared"* him for any: *concussion, swelling or bleeding of the brain, whiplash, broken nose and no bandage to cover alleged open head wound*.
> Daily Kos: Zimmerman Received First Aid in the Back Seat of a Police Car & Not Ambulance - that makes no sense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they could have 'cleared' a broken nose. That would have to be determined by xray. When I read 'cleared', I took it to mean that either the injuries were not deemed severe enough to warrant an ED evaluation OR Zimmerman refused treatment --- although Bigreb indicated that the officers would have taken him in if the paramedics said to.
> 
> As far as him being in the police car, that isn't an issue IMO ... they don't need to be in the ambulance to treat him. There was only one ambulance on scene and I would suspect Martin had already been placed there.
> 
> I do think it's interesting that Zimmerman's father first told the media George didn't follow ... now he's saying his son DID follow Martin.
> 
> Maddening.
Click to expand...


Well allow me to make a clarification. Here in North Carolina if you are taken into custody and require medical attention even if you say I don't need medical attention you will be taken to the hospital. Florida might be different but I can't see that happening because of liability issues. But I was surprised to find out EMT's could declare a person dead.


----------



## Emma

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.
> 
> But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?
> 
> 
> 
> That's simply not true.  Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.
> 
> That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.
> 
> By the way, did you notice any blood on his *LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT*?  There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.
> 
> Me personally?  I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.
> 
> Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.
Click to expand...


Something else in that article that mentioned the time stamp ... one (or more?) witnesses said that a man in a white t shirt was on top of the other. Neither was wearing a white T shirt BUT if Zimmerman didn't have on his jacket at the time, it may have appeared he was wearing a white shirt. AND ... his gun would have been visible to Martin. 

Was Zimmerman wearing his jacket during the fight? The police report says it had grass on the back, so he probably did. There is no grass on his back visible in the video, but from that distance it would be hard to say one way or the other. It might have rubbed off getting in and out of the car, and while riding.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
Click to expand...

My only gripe is people using evidence that was not collected or used by to police to show guilty or innocence of Zimmerman


----------



## paperview

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
Click to expand...

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: 
*
TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think they paid the witnesses to make corroborating statements, too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, this is all a grand conspiracy without any foundation to believe it is other than the fact that Zimmerman's father is a retired magistrate.
> 
> Well, even magistrate's offspring are allowed equal treatment under the law.
> 
> Conspiracy.  That's a new approach.  And, it's often the approach of those whose minds are convinced one way, yet the facts contradict that idea.  911ers, birthers, moon landers, etc. - all the same.
Click to expand...


I'm not so sure his father being a retired VA magistrate is significant, other than he'd know the system and be able to advise his son. Not to offend anyone here, but magistrates here are pretty low on the judicial ladder.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Peach said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes thanks, that map is great. The notation where 2821 is (or is it 2831? I didn't want to copy the long post over) really helps, too. I had tried to find an aerial view the other day without much luck. There is a new tape out with the EMS / dispatchers talking about the location as behind that address.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The map would not be allowed in court as evidence, unless it was what was used by the police. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? You are try to show guilt or innocence of a person with evidence not used by the police. You might as well add Zimmerman had help from other people holding Trayvon down while he held the gun to Trayvons head. Might as well add that in the evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There can be a "razor thin" line on STAND YOUR GROUND, it appears:
> 
> A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com
Click to expand...


Yes I see where that is going 



> Partly as a result, the Martin case  involving a black teenager and man described as white or Hispanic  has unleashed a roaring national dialogue on racial profiling and prejudice. In the Seay case, the fighters were all black.


----------



## Emma

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yup, I posted that a few days ago.
> 
> Timelines: Important.
> ================
> 
> There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.
> *
> TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm
> 
> TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm
> 
> TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*
> 
> That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.
Click to expand...

I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too. 

The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were _dispatched_ at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.


----------



## Peach

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The map would not be allowed in court as evidence, unless it was what was used by the police. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? You are try to show guilt or innocence of a person with evidence not used by the police. You might as well add Zimmerman had help from other people holding Trayvon down while he held the gun to Trayvons head. Might as well add that in the evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There can be a "razor thin" line on STAND YOUR GROUND, it appears:
> 
> A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I see where that is going
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partly as a result, the Martin case  involving a black teenager and man described as white or Hispanic  has unleashed a roaring national dialogue on racial profiling and prejudice. In the Seay case, the fighters were all black.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Seay could not use STAND YOUR GROUND though HE was attacked; why Zimmerman?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yup, I posted that a few days ago.
> 
> Timelines: Important.
> ================
> 
> There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc:
> *
> TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm
> 
> TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm
> 
> TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*
> 
> That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.
Click to expand...


You are using other evidence not collected by the police but an unvetted outside source.


----------



## Emma

Oh ... as far as CPR? It wasn't started until the second officer arrived. It isn't clear what time that was, but it would have to be after 1920. Martin was pronounced at 1930. He was given less than 10 minutes of CPR, and the way the report reads, the paramedic pronounced him almost immediately upon arriving on scene.


----------



## paperview

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, I posted that a few days ago.
> 
> Timelines: Important.
> ================
> 
> There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.
> *
> TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm
> 
> TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm
> 
> TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*
> 
> That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.
> 
> The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were _dispatched_ at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.
Click to expand...

No.  They were *there* at 7:17.

Certain.

(I'll dig up an older post of mine...)


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, I posted that a few days ago.
> 
> Timelines: Important.
> ================
> 
> There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.
> *
> TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm
> 
> TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm
> 
> TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*
> 
> That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.
> 
> The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were _dispatched_ at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.
Click to expand...


Let's retrace who has the link were this timeline came from? And the link better fucking be from Sanford PD.


----------



## paperview

Here Emm.  I posted this a week ago:

  From the moment he hung up the phone (7:14) to the time the police arrived (7:17).  3 minutes.

*Zimmerman's call ended 7:14 p.m.  
**The first witness 911 call comes in at 7:16:11 p.m.*
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

Facts.
The call at * 7:16:11 p.m *is the one where in the background you can hear the  struggle and then the sound of the pistol being fired.

At 7:17 p.m. the calls to 911 flood in with residents hearing gunshots.



> "Records show Zimmerman's first call to authorities    was at 7:09:34 p.m., followed by seven witness calls at 7:16:11,    7:16:41, 7:17:06, 7:17:15, 7:17:54, 7:18:00 and 704."


Lawyer: Trayvon Martin's girlfriend heard altercation | News - Home

The first Sanford police  units arrive at that *7:17* mark.

Timeline.  It matters.
*
THREE MINUTES FROM THE TIME ZIMMERMAN HUNG UP THE PHONE TO THE TIME THE POLICE ARRIVED.*


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Yes I see where that is going



Something I question was if Trayvon saw the gun, or felt threatened by Zimmerman's actions. If that's the case, then under that law was _Martin_ entitled to use force? It would certainly seem so. Then once he went on the offensive hitting Zimmerman, did the law suddenly switch to cover _Zimmerman's_ actions? That's what's so crazy about this law, IMO. 

 Chicken, egg ... 

We're never going to know what _really_ happened.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, I posted that a few days ago.
> 
> Timelines: Important.
> ================
> 
> There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc:
> *
> TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm
> 
> TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm
> 
> TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*
> 
> That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are using other evidence not collected by the police but an unvetted outside source.
Click to expand...


No she isn't, unless you consider the police tapes and report to be 'an unvetted outside source'.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, I posted that a few days ago.
> 
> Timelines: Important.
> ================
> 
> There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.
> *
> TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm
> 
> TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm
> 
> TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*
> 
> That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.
> 
> 
> 
> I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.
> 
> The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were _dispatched_ at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's retrace who has the link were this timeline came from? And the link better fucking be from Sanford PD.
Click to expand...


http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

City of Sanford Florida

Zimmerman's call history


----------



## Emma

paperview said:


> Here Emm.  I posted this a week ago:
> 
> From the moment he hung up the phone (7:14) to the time the police arrived (7:17).  3 minutes.
> 
> *Zimmerman's call ended 7:14 p.m.
> **The first witness 911 call comes in at 7:16:11 p.m.*
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
> 
> Facts.
> The call at * 7:16:11 p.m *is the one where in the background you can hear the  struggle and then the sound of the pistol being fired.
> 
> At 7:17 p.m. the calls to 911 flood in with residents hearing gunshots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Records show Zimmerman's first call to authorities    was at 7:09:34 p.m., followed by seven witness calls at 7:16:11,    7:16:41, 7:17:06, 7:17:15, 7:17:54, 7:18:00 and 704."
> 
> 
> 
> Lawyer: Trayvon Martin's girlfriend heard altercation | News - Home
> 
> The first Sanford police  units arrive at that *7:17* mark.
> 
> Timeline.  It matters.
> *
> THREE MINUTES FROM THE TIME ZIMMERMAN HUNG UP THE PHONE TO THE TIME THE POLICE ARRIVED.*
Click to expand...


Thank you so much. I was a bit confused by what he meant by 'dispatched', thinking that is when the officer received the call. This makes sense, as it was reported that police arrived within a minute or two of the shot. AND the later 911 callers were told that police were on scene. (IIRC, some said they saw the officers there)


----------



## paperview

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here Emm.  I posted this a week ago:
> 
> From the moment he hung up the phone (7:14) to the time the police arrived (7:17).  3 minutes.
> 
> *Zimmerman's call ended 7:14 p.m.
> **The first witness 911 call comes in at 7:16:11 p.m.*
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
> 
> Facts.
> The call at * 7:16:11 p.m *is the one where in the background you can hear the  struggle and then the sound of the pistol being fired.
> 
> At 7:17 p.m. the calls to 911 flood in with residents hearing gunshots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Records show Zimmerman's first call to authorities    was at 7:09:34 p.m., followed by seven witness calls at 7:16:11,    7:16:41, 7:17:06, 7:17:15, 7:17:54, 7:18:00 and 704."
> 
> 
> 
> Lawyer: Trayvon Martin's girlfriend heard altercation | News - Home
> 
> The first Sanford police  units arrive at that *7:17* mark.
> 
> Timeline.  It matters.
> *
> THREE MINUTES FROM THE TIME ZIMMERMAN HUNG UP THE PHONE TO THE TIME THE POLICE ARRIVED.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you so much. I was a bit confused by what he meant by 'dispatched', thinking that is when the officer received the call. This makes sense, as it was reported that police arrived within a minute or two of the shot. AND the later 911 callers were told that police were on scene. (IIRC, some said they saw the officers there)
Click to expand...

You're welcome, Emm.

Have to leave soon.  Have a great day with the cute lil potato.


----------



## Emma

paperview said:


> You're welcome, Emm.
> 
> Have to leave soon.  Have a great day with the cute lil potato.



Thanks 

I won't see the potato until tomorrow. I can't wait !!


----------



## Si modo

Peach said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peach said:
> 
> 
> 
> There can be a "razor thin" line on STAND YOUR GROUND, it appears:
> 
> A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I see where that is going
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partly as a result, the Martin case &#8212; involving a black teenager and man described as white or Hispanic &#8212; has unleashed a roaring national dialogue on racial profiling and prejudice. In the Seay case, the fighters were all black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Seay could not use STAND YOUR GROUND though HE was attacked; why Zimmerman?
Click to expand...

In that case, it appears the shooter shot when his three attackers were already retreating, according to witnesses, so the fight was over at that time and no danger of life or bodily harm.  

However, the entry wound on the deceased shows differently - that the deceased (one of the three who fought with the shooter) was not retreating at the time.


----------



## Si modo

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, I posted that a few days ago.
> 
> Timelines: Important.
> ================
> 
> There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated  him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the  police to get to the station (6.2 miles)  (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to  apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy,  get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.
> *
> TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm
> 
> TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ** ------> **7:17pm
> 
> TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ** ------> **7:52PM*
> 
> That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his  last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean  to the PD.
> 
> 
> 
> I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.
> 
> The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were _dispatched_ at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's retrace who has the link were this timeline came from? And the link better fucking be from Sanford PD.
Click to expand...

The timeline Paperview shows looks pretty accurate to me, based on the cop report and the times of the phone calls we've seen.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> So, this is all a grand conspiracy without any foundation to believe it is other than the fact that Zimmerman's father is a retired magistrate.
> 
> Well, even magistrate's offspring are allowed equal treatment under the law.
> 
> Conspiracy.  That's a new approach.  And, it's often the approach of those whose minds are convinced one way, yet the facts contradict that idea.  911ers, birthers, moon landers, etc. - all the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure his father being a retired VA magistrate is significant, other than he'd know the system and be able to advise his son. Not to offend anyone here, but magistrates here are pretty low on the judicial ladder.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Virginia magistrates are VERY low on the judicial ladder here.  If one tries dropping the name of a magistrate around here in some legal matter or to cops, I think folks would just laugh.

But, wasn't Zimmerman's father a magistrate in Florida (Orange County, FL) and retired from that?  I don't know if those are low on the ladder there, or not.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you are.
> 
> You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)
> 
> The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My only gripe is people using evidence that was not collected or used by to police to show guilty or innocence of Zimmerman
Click to expand...


no.... I'm just giving you the time he was brought in. I would have thought at least an hour, especially considering they didn't attend to Zimmerman until after 1930.


----------



## Emma

How far is the station from the complex ... I'll have to check paperview's post again. So considering however long it took to get to the PD, that left VERY little time for Zimmerman to be evaluated and cleaned up. That's surprising too, considering he was claiming a severe beating to include a head injury.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> How far is the station from the complex ... I'll have to check paperview's post again. So considering however long it took to get to the PD, that left VERY little time for Zimmerman to be evaluated and cleaned up. That's surprising too, considering he was claiming a severe beating to include a head injury.


According to Google maps, 14 minutes from 1111 Retreat Circle, Sanford, FL.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Yeah, Virginia magistrates are VERY low on the judicial ladder here.  If one tries dropping the name of a magistrate around here in some legal matter or to cops, I think folks would just laugh.
> 
> But, wasn't Zimmerman's father a magistrate in Florida (Orange County, FL) and retired from that?  I don't know if those are low on the ladder there, or not.



I've never been able to figure that one out for certain. Some articles read as if he retired to Florida, period. Others make it sound as if he was a magistrate in Florida, too. My own opinion is that he wasn't ...


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> How far is the station from the complex ... I'll have to check paperview's post again. So considering however long it took to get to the PD, that left VERY little time for Zimmerman to be evaluated and cleaned up. That's surprising too, considering he was claiming a severe beating to include a head injury.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Google maps, 14 minutes from 1111 Retreat Circle, Sanford, FL.
Click to expand...


Wow. 

Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved. 

I'd love to see the EMS report ...


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Virginia magistrates are VERY low on the judicial ladder here.  If one tries dropping the name of a magistrate around here in some legal matter or to cops, I think folks would just laugh.
> 
> But, wasn't Zimmerman's father a magistrate in Florida (Orange County, FL) and retired from that?  I don't know if those are low on the ladder there, or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been able to figure that one out for certain. Some articles read as if he retired to Florida, period. Others make it sound as if he was a magistrate in Florida, too. My own opinion is that he wasn't ...
Click to expand...

Good point.  The papers showing that Zimmerman said his dad was a retired judge and his mom a court clerk were a statement George Zimmerman made on a legal paper to demonstrate that he has respect for the law, and that statement was made in Florida.  Thus, you are correct; that doesn't mean Zimmerman's father was a magistrate in Florida.

And, he definitely was a magistrate in Virginia (probably Manassas County).

Good catch!


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> How far is the station from the complex ... I'll have to check paperview's post again. So considering however long it took to get to the PD, that left VERY little time for Zimmerman to be evaluated and cleaned up. That's surprising too, considering he was claiming a severe beating to include a head injury.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Google maps, 14 minutes from 1111 Retreat Circle, Sanford, FL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved.
> 
> I'd love to see the EMS report ...
Click to expand...

Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had lights and sirens going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Google maps, 14 minutes from 1111 Retreat Circle, Sanford, FL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved.
> 
> I'd love to see the EMS report ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had lights and sirens going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.
Click to expand...


Police (at least one that we know of) were already on the way, as a result of Zimmerman's 911 call.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Virginia magistrates are VERY low on the judicial ladder here.  If one tries dropping the name of a magistrate around here in some legal matter or to cops, I think folks would just laugh.
> 
> But, wasn't Zimmerman's father a magistrate in Florida (Orange County, FL) and retired from that?  I don't know if those are low on the ladder there, or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been able to figure that one out for certain. Some articles read as if he retired to Florida, period. Others make it sound as if he was a magistrate in Florida, too. My own opinion is that he wasn't ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point.  The papers showing that Zimmerman said his dad was a retired judge and his mom a court clerk were a statement George Zimmerman made on a legal paper to demonstrate that he has respect for the law, and that statement was made in Florida.  Thus, you are correct; that doesn't mean Zimmerman's father was a magistrate in Florida.
> 
> And, he definitely was a magistrate in Virginia (probably Manassas County).
> 
> Good catch!
Click to expand...


I can't take credit for catching anything on those papers ... never saw them lol

It's just a gut feeling, because the articles and blogs and comments all referenced the source that stated he was a retired magistrate from VA. It just seemed to me that it morphed into his father being a judge in Florida.


----------



## Si modo

Dick Tuck said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved.
> 
> I'd love to see the EMS report ...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had lights and sirens going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Police (at least one that we know of) were already on the way, as a result of Zimmerman's 911 call.
Click to expand...

We're talking about the time the paramedics had to treat Zimmerman at the scene based on their arrival time (~19:17 earliest possibility) and the time the cops arrived at the station with Zimmerman (~19:52).  Subtract out about 12 minutes for transport of Zimmerman to the station, and that leaves about 23 minutes the paramedics and Zimmerman were in the same location.

Paramedics were also doing CPR on Martin after their arrival.  We don't know how many EMTs were there and if we also need to subtract out ~10 minutes of CPR time on Martin before paramedics could get to Zimmerman.

Based on things around here, there are usually at least 3 EMTs in an ambulance, and if a fire truck is available, they also respond, bringing additional EMTs.

But with three, two could be doing CPR on Martin and one could be providing aid to Zimmerman.

But, we can only speculate without the EMS report.  So, it looks like a maximum amount of time the EMTs could be with Zimmerman was 23 minutes, approximately (not taking into account the time took to disarm Zimmerman, too).


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Google maps, 14 minutes from 1111 Retreat Circle, Sanford, FL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved.
> 
> I'd love to see the EMS report ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had *lights and sirens* going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.
Click to expand...


I thought about that, but would that have been necessary? (to be perfectly honest, if I had a car with sirens and lights, I'd use 'em every chance I got)


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been able to figure that one out for certain. Some articles read as if he retired to Florida, period. Others make it sound as if he was a magistrate in Florida, too. My own opinion is that he wasn't ...
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  The papers showing that Zimmerman said his dad was a retired judge and his mom a court clerk were a statement George Zimmerman made on a legal paper to demonstrate that he has respect for the law, and that statement was made in Florida.  Thus, you are correct; that doesn't mean Zimmerman's father was a magistrate in Florida.
> 
> And, he definitely was a magistrate in Virginia (probably Manassas County).
> 
> Good catch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't take credit for catching anything on those papers ... never saw them lol
> 
> It's just a gut feeling, because the articles and blogs and comments all referenced the source that stated he was a retired magistrate from VA. It just seemed to me that it morphed into his father being a judge in Florida.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe it did morph into that.  Zimmerman just mentioned that on some papers he filed in the courts in Florida and folks assumed that his father was a local magistrate.


----------



## Si modo

Emma said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved.
> 
> I'd love to see the EMS report ...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had *lights and sirens* going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought about that, but would that have been necessary? (to be perfectly honest, if I had a car with sirens and lights, I'd use 'em every chance I got)
Click to expand...

Definitely!  It's 6.1 miles - do that in 14 min and the average speed is 26 MPH.  It looks like most of the ride is on a highway, so I would bet they could go faster then, but slowed down on the surface streets.

Anyway, over such a short distance with several turns at intersections, even speeding doesn't save much more time - maybe a couple or three minutes, guesstimate.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had lights and sirens going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police (at least one that we know of) were already on the way, as a result of Zimmerman's 911 call.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We're talking about the time the paramedics had to treat Zimmerman at the scene based on their arrival time (~19:17) and the time the cops arrived at the station with Zimmerman (~19:52).  Subtract out about 12 minutes for transport of Zimmerman to the station, and that leaves about 23 minutes the paramedics and Zimmerman were in the same location.
> 
> Paramedics were also doing CPR on Martin after their arrival.  We don't know how many EMTs were there and if we also need to subtract out ~10 minutes of CPR time on Martin before paramedics could get to Zimmerman.
> 
> Based on things around here, there are usually at least 3 EMTs in an ambulance, and if a fire truck is available, they also respond, bringing additional EMTs.
> 
> But with three, two could be doing CPR on Martin and one could be providing aid to Zimmerman.
> 
> But, we can only speculate without the EMS report.  So, it looks like a maximum amount of time the EMTs could be with Zimmerman was 23 minutes, approximately (not taking into account the time took to disarm Zimmerman, too).
Click to expand...


There is that. Smith had him secured, then found and secured the gun. He says "SFD rescue 38" arrived, whatever that was. Zimmerman was up, moving about, coherent and in no apparent distress. Maybe the EMS log will be released, at least as far as time of arrival, who was involved, that sort of thing.


----------



## Dick Tuck

I don't know if they're a volunteer EMS or a professional.  Wouldn't it be SOP to dispatch an EMS unit, when a shot was fired?


----------



## Si modo

Dick Tuck said:


> I don't know if they're a volunteer EMS or a professional.  Wouldn't it be SOP to dispatch an EMS unit, when a shot was fired?


I think so, but I'm only going on what they do where I am.

For something like that, the call goes to the FD (both EMS and FD are there, both volunteer and/or pros, depending on the shift).  Both a fire engine and an ambulance are dispatched to the location, but only if the fire truck is available.  But, by default, an ambulance goes and there are a minimum three EMTs in that - one driving, of course.  (A good pal volunteers, so that is my understanding of what she tells me...plus some personal experience with 911 responses to places I've been where there was a need for EMTs).

But, that's here.  I dunno in Florida, but maybe it's the same or similar.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Si modo said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if they're a volunteer EMS or a professional.  Wouldn't it be SOP to dispatch an EMS unit, when a shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> I think so, but I'm only going on what they do where I am.
> 
> For something like that, the call goes to the FD (both EMS and FD are there, both volunteer and/or pros, depending on the shift).  Both a fire engine and an ambulance are dispatched to the location, but only if the fire truck is available.  But, by default, an ambulance goes and there are a minimum three EMTs in that - one driving, of course.  (A good pal volunteers, so that is my understanding of what she tells me...plus some personal experience with 911 responses to places I've been where there was a need for EMTs).
> 
> But, that's here.  I dunno in Florida, but maybe it's the same or similar.
Click to expand...


Dick Tuck does not deserve any response on this subject since he had lied about it.


----------



## Emma

Si modo said:


> Yes, I believe it did morph into that.  Zimmerman just mentioned that on some papers he filed in the courts in Florida and folks assumed that his father was a local magistrate.



Hmmm...

If he had to file papers in court, I'm betting it's because of this: 

f.&#8195;The  department is authorized to disclose the collected data to agencies of  the Federal Government and other states for use exclusively in  determining the lawfulness of a firearm sale or transfer. The department  is also authorized to disclose any collected data to the Department of  Agriculture and Consumer Services for purposes of determining  eligibility for issuance of a concealed weapons or concealed firearms  license and for determining whether a basis exists for revoking or  suspending a previously issued license pursuant to s. 790.06(10).  When a potential buyer or transferee appeals a nonapproval based on  these records, the clerks of court and mental institutions shall, upon  request by the department, provide information to help determine whether  the potential buyer or transferee is the same person as the subject of  the record. Photographs and any other data that could confirm or negate  identity must be made available to the department for such purposes,  notwithstanding any other provision of state law to the contrary. Any  such information that is made confidential or exempt from disclosure by  law shall retain such confidential or exempt status when transferred to  the department.



(b)&#8195;Inform  the licensee making the inquiry either that records demonstrate that  the buyer or transferee is so prohibited and provide the licensee a  nonapproval number, or provide the licensee with a unique approval  number.

(c)1.&#8195;Review  any records available to it to determine whether the potential buyer or  transferee has been indicted or has had an information filed against  her or him for an offense that is a felony under either state or federal  law, or, as mandated by federal law, *has had an injunction for  protection against domestic violence entered against the potential buyer*  or transferee under s. 741.30, has had an injunction for protection against repeat violence entered against the potential buyer or transferee under s. 784.046, or has been arrested for a dangerous crime as specified in s. 907.041(4)(a) *or for any of the following enumerated offenses:*

a.&#8195;Criminal anarchy under ss. 876.01 and 876.02.
b.&#8195;Extortion under s. 836.05.
c.&#8195;Explosives violations under s. 552.22(1) and (2).
d.&#8195;Controlled substances violations under chapter 893.
*e.&#8195;Resisting an officer with violence under s. 843.01.*
f.&#8195;Weapons and firearms violations under this chapter.
g.&#8195;Treason under s. 876.32.
h.&#8195;Assisting self-murder under s. 782.08.
i.&#8195;Sabotage under s. 876.38.
j.&#8195;Stalking or aggravated stalking under s. 784.048.


*If  the review indicates any such indictment, information, or arrest, the  department shall provide to the licensee a conditional nonapproval  number.*



2.&#8195;Within  24 working hours, the department shall determine the disposition of the  indictment, information, or arrest and inform the licensee as to  whether the potential buyer is prohibited from receiving or possessing a  firearm. For purposes of this paragraph, &#8220;working hours&#8221; means the  hours from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, excluding legal  holidays.

(6)&#8195;Any  person who is denied the right to receive or purchase a firearm as a  result of the procedures established by this section *may request a  criminal history records review and correction in accordance with the  rules promulgated by the Department of Law Enforcement.

*- Chapter 790 - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate
somewhere in those statutes is an appeal process if not approved.


----------



## Emma

Dick Tuck said:


> I don't know if they're a volunteer EMS or a professional.  Wouldn't it be SOP to dispatch an EMS unit, when a shot was fired?



It's referred to as Sanford Fire, so professional I'd guess. There was one ambulance, the tape indicates a second was refused.


----------



## Dick Tuck

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if they're a volunteer EMS or a professional.  Wouldn't it be SOP to dispatch an EMS unit, when a shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> I think so, but I'm only going on what they do where I am.
> 
> For something like that, the call goes to the FD (both EMS and FD are there, both volunteer and/or pros, depending on the shift).  Both a fire engine and an ambulance are dispatched to the location, but only if the fire truck is available.  But, by default, an ambulance goes and there are a minimum three EMTs in that - one driving, of course.  (A good pal volunteers, so that is my understanding of what she tells me...plus some personal experience with 911 responses to places I've been where there was a need for EMTs).
> 
> But, that's here.  I dunno in Florida, but maybe it's the same or similar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck does not deserve any response on this subject since he had lied about it.
Click to expand...


Oooh, trying to get your reach around buddies not to respond to me?  Why don't you lead by example, you moronic, pusillanimous pissant liar?  Tell me once again that you heard a "P" and "K" sound in the word "coons".


----------



## Dick Tuck

Emma said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if they're a volunteer EMS or a professional.  Wouldn't it be SOP to dispatch an EMS unit, when a shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's referred to as Sanford Fire, so professional I'd guess. There was one ambulance, the tape indicates a second was refused.
Click to expand...


I'm just not sure whether the first one was dispatched when the woman who called 911 said there was a clearly audible gunshot, or when the police arrived and found Martin's body in the grass.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Si modo said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if they're a volunteer EMS or a professional.  Wouldn't it be SOP to dispatch an EMS unit, when a shot was fired?
> 
> 
> 
> I think so, but I'm only going on what they do where I am.
> 
> For something like that, the call goes to the FD (both EMS and FD are there, both volunteer and/or pros, depending on the shift).  Both a fire engine and an ambulance are dispatched to the location, but only if the fire truck is available.  But, by default, an ambulance goes and there are a minimum three EMTs in that - one driving, of course.  (A good pal volunteers, so that is my understanding of what she tells me...plus some personal experience with 911 responses to places I've been where there was a need for EMTs).
> 
> But, that's here.  I dunno in Florida, but maybe it's the same or similar.
Click to expand...


I'm across the river, and I'm serviced by a volunteer fire department and EMS.  College Park is serviced by a mostly professional EMS service, as is Cheverly, which is right by the PG Trauma Center.  I don't know if it matters.  The point still is whether the ambulance was dispatched by the 911 operator when the shot was fired, or after the police arrived at the scene.

Not sure if it matters much.  If the bullet struck the heart of Martin, he would be toast in a minute or so.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Dick Tuck said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think so, but I'm only going on what they do where I am.
> 
> For something like that, the call goes to the FD (both EMS and FD are there, both volunteer and/or pros, depending on the shift).  Both a fire engine and an ambulance are dispatched to the location, but only if the fire truck is available.  But, by default, an ambulance goes and there are a minimum three EMTs in that - one driving, of course.  (A good pal volunteers, so that is my understanding of what she tells me...plus some personal experience with 911 responses to places I've been where there was a need for EMTs).
> 
> But, that's here.  I dunno in Florida, but maybe it's the same or similar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck does not deserve any response on this subject since he had lied about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oooh, trying to get your reach around buddies not to respond to me?  Why don't you lead by example, you moronic, pusillanimous pissant liar?  Tell me once again that you heard a "P" and "K" sound in the word "coons".
Click to expand...


You do not deserve a response from anyone due to the fact you lied about what the dispatcher said to build a case of guilt against Zimmerman.


----------



## Emma

Dick Tuck said:


> I'm across the river, and I'm serviced by a volunteer fire department and EMS.  College Park is serviced by a mostly professional EMS service, as is Cheverly, which is right by the PG Trauma Center.  I don't know if it matters.  The point still is whether the ambulance was dispatched by the 911 operator when the shot was fired, or after the police arrived at the scene.
> 
> Not sure if it matters much.  If the bullet struck the heart of Martin, he would be toast in a minute or so.



I assumed they were when the callers described a gunshot and someone down ... but wouldn't EMS have to wait for the police to clear them to enter the area? In other words ... maybe they were there but couldn't go assist Martin until Zimmerman was secured and it was known there were no other shooters or hazards?


----------



## Dick Tuck

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck does not deserve any response on this subject since he had lied about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh, trying to get your reach around buddies not to respond to me?  Why don't you lead by example, you moronic, pusillanimous pissant liar?  Tell me once again that you heard a "P" and "K" sound in the word "coons".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do not deserve a response from anyone due to the fact you lied about what the dispatcher said to build a case of guilt against Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


So why are you responding, you lying sack of crap?  Are you under some illusion that you're king of the dung hill, and can tell others who and who they cannot respond to?  You've got some issues.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Emma said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm across the river, and I'm serviced by a volunteer fire department and EMS.  College Park is serviced by a mostly professional EMS service, as is Cheverly, which is right by the PG Trauma Center.  I don't know if it matters.  The point still is whether the ambulance was dispatched by the 911 operator when the shot was fired, or after the police arrived at the scene.
> 
> Not sure if it matters much.  If the bullet struck the heart of Martin, he would be toast in a minute or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assumed they were when the callers described a gunshot and someone down ... but wouldn't EMS have to wait for the police to clear them to enter the area? In other words ... maybe they were there but couldn't go assist Martin until Zimmerman was secured and it was known there were no other shooters or hazards?
Click to expand...


I'd also be interested to know if Zimmerman had any first aid training.  Witnesses have claimed that he jumped right up after the gunshot, and started walking away from Martin.


----------



## Annie

I've been following this story since a day or so after it happened. The first thing is that it was labeled a 'gated community' one would assume upscale with that. So I googled the development and found it was mainly townhomes around $100k or less, mostly less. 

The crime rate indicated a need for 'neighborhood watch' or more likely increased police protection. Ever notice that 'secure neighborhoods' don't have neighborhood watches? 

Anyhow, with the above observations I had to acknowledge early on that folks in legit neighborhood watches do not carry guns and certainly don't go beyond calling 911. They don't leave their vehicles and they don't engage with suspects. That pretty much fits into the comments from the dispatcher. That was evident from the start and a negative towards Zimmerman.

Since then more has come out on what transpired from perhaps bad judgment on Zimmerman's part, but might have much to do with claims of self-defense. Then again, later it might mean that Zimmerman overstated the harm or not?

I have to acknowledge that my initial response was to go against Zimmerman. Now? While there seems to be much to nail him with, I'm no longer sold that there wasn't a justifiable claim of self-defense here. Only a fair trial would prove it one way or another.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Si modo said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Google maps, 14 minutes from 1111 Retreat Circle, Sanford, FL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved.
> 
> I'd love to see the EMS report ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had lights and sirens going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.
Click to expand...


Cops generally only run their lights and sirens when they're going TO a place where something happened.  Once they've got someone in the back?  They're a lot less concerned about getting to the station fast.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Annie said:


> I've been following this story since a day or so after it happened. The first thing is that it was labeled a 'gated community' one would assume upscale with that. So I googled the development and found it was mainly townhomes around $100k or less, mostly less.
> 
> The crime rate indicated a need for 'neighborhood watch' or more likely increased police protection. Ever notice that 'secure neighborhoods' don't have neighborhood watches?
> 
> Anyhow, with the above observations I had to acknowledge early on that folks in legit neighborhood watches do not carry guns and certainly don't go beyond calling 911. They don't leave their vehicles and they don't engage with suspects. That pretty much fits into the comments from the dispatcher. That was evident from the start and a negative towards Zimmerman.
> 
> Since then more has come out on what transpired from perhaps bad judgment on Zimmerman's part, but might have much to do with claims of self-defense. Then again, later it might mean that Zimmerman overstated the harm or not?
> 
> I have to acknowledge that my initial response was to go against Zimmerman. Now? While there seems to be much to nail him with, I'm no longer sold that there wasn't a justifiable claim of self-defense here. Only a fair trial would prove it one way or another.



You know........ever since I saw the gate into the community that stated surveillance cameras were in place and running 24 hours/day, where are the surveillance tapes?


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Dick Tuck said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh, trying to get your reach around buddies not to respond to me?  Why don't you lead by example, you moronic, pusillanimous pissant liar?  Tell me once again that you heard a "P" and "K" sound in the word "coons".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do not deserve a response from anyone due to the fact you lied about what the dispatcher said to build a case of guilt against Zimmerman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why are you responding, you lying sack of crap?  Are you under some illusion that you're king of the dung hill, and can tell others who and who they cannot respond to?  You've got some issues.
Click to expand...


I'm just advising people that you have lied to build a case of guilt against Zimmerman.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

ABikerSailor said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been following this story since a day or so after it happened. The first thing is that it was labeled a 'gated community' one would assume upscale with that. So I googled the development and found it was mainly townhomes around $100k or less, mostly less.
> 
> The crime rate indicated a need for 'neighborhood watch' or more likely increased police protection. Ever notice that 'secure neighborhoods' don't have neighborhood watches?
> 
> Anyhow, with the above observations I had to acknowledge early on that folks in legit neighborhood watches do not carry guns and certainly don't go beyond calling 911. They don't leave their vehicles and they don't engage with suspects. That pretty much fits into the comments from the dispatcher. That was evident from the start and a negative towards Zimmerman.
> 
> Since then more has come out on what transpired from perhaps bad judgment on Zimmerman's part, but might have much to do with claims of self-defense. Then again, later it might mean that Zimmerman overstated the harm or not?
> 
> I have to acknowledge that my initial response was to go against Zimmerman. Now? While there seems to be much to nail him with, I'm no longer sold that there wasn't a justifiable claim of self-defense here. Only a fair trial would prove it one way or another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know........ever since I saw the gate into the community that stated surveillance cameras were in place and running 24 hours/day, where are the surveillance tapes?
Click to expand...


Interesting maybe there weren't any cameras in that area. maybe there was nothing useful.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Now, there were most likely 2 paramedics/EMTs on that call (the audio released the other day shows only one ambulance on scene, they declined a second) ... but seriously, I'd expect both of them to be working on Martin. The report reads as if they called it almost as soon as they arrived; he was pronounced at 1930. They would have then turned their attention to Zimmerman. So ... what does that leave? About 10 minutes or so to attend to him, get a quick history and assess / clean / treat / determine he does not need to go to the ER? I've never worked EMS, but that seems awfully fast, considering the potential injuries involved.
> 
> I'd love to see the EMS report ...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.  That's a short period of time.  It's reasonable to assume the cops had lights and sirens going, but still speeding over such a short distance wouldn't make the trip more than two or three minutes shorter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cops generally only run their lights and sirens when they're going TO a place where something happened.*  Once they've got someone in the back?  They're a lot less concerned about getting to the station fast.
Click to expand...

Or when they're headed to Dunkin Donuts.


----------



## HomeInspect

Trayvon has become a household name. His greiving mother had the presence of mind to file a trademark...
Interesting... we have the Sharpton's and the usual poverty pimps taking advantage of the tragic death of a teen, now we have mom playing the game.
Trayvon's Mom Wants to Trademark Her Son's Name | Reuters


----------



## Dick Tuck

bigrebnc1775 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been following this story since a day or so after it happened. The first thing is that it was labeled a 'gated community' one would assume upscale with that. So I googled the development and found it was mainly townhomes around $100k or less, mostly less.
> 
> The crime rate indicated a need for 'neighborhood watch' or more likely increased police protection. Ever notice that 'secure neighborhoods' don't have neighborhood watches?
> 
> Anyhow, with the above observations I had to acknowledge early on that folks in legit neighborhood watches do not carry guns and certainly don't go beyond calling 911. They don't leave their vehicles and they don't engage with suspects. That pretty much fits into the comments from the dispatcher. That was evident from the start and a negative towards Zimmerman.
> 
> Since then more has come out on what transpired from perhaps bad judgment on Zimmerman's part, but might have much to do with claims of self-defense. Then again, later it might mean that Zimmerman overstated the harm or not?
> 
> I have to acknowledge that my initial response was to go against Zimmerman. Now? While there seems to be much to nail him with, I'm no longer sold that there wasn't a justifiable claim of self-defense here. Only a fair trial would prove it one way or another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know........ever since I saw the gate into the community that stated surveillance cameras were in place and running 24 hours/day, where are the surveillance tapes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting maybe there weren't any cameras in that area. maybe there was nothing useful.
Click to expand...


Or maybe they were collected as evidence.


----------



## Dick Tuck

HomeInspect said:


> Trayvon has become a household name. His greiving mother had the presence of mind to file a trademark...
> Interesting... we have the Sharpton's and the usual poverty pimps taking advantage of the tragic death of a teen, now we have mom playing the game.
> Trayvon's Mom Wants to Trademark Her Son's Name | Reuters



His mom trademarked his name so it wouldn't be exploited by others, for profit.


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,






Dick Tuck said:


> HomeInspect said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trayvon has become a household name. His greiving mother had the presence of mind to file a trademark...
> Interesting... we have the Sharpton's and the usual poverty pimps taking advantage of the tragic death of a teen, now we have mom playing the game.
> Trayvon's Mom Wants to Trademark Her Son's Name | Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His mom trademarked his name so it wouldn't be exploited by others, for profit.
Click to expand...




1. Oh *BULLSHIT* son!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. Trademarks are for commercial reasons, you can't even get a trademark unless you are using it *IN* business.
2. So there is no defensive TM's.
3. ***FACT***!!!!!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## ABikerSailor

I see that our resident crazy racist Crap Whore Sow (Chesswarsnow) has finally showed up.

What took you so long idiot?


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,





ABikerSailor said:


> I see that our resident crazy racist Crap Whore Sow (Chesswarsnow) has finally showed up.
> 
> What took you so long idiot?





1. I see our *Pretty in Pink Gay Biker Sailor* with *Sugar Tits* tattoed on his back wonders why I just posted in his minor thread.
2. There is other threads on this topic, *Sugar Tits*.
3. I actually started a thread on this that got merged as well.
4. I'm no racist, I have more respect for the negros than they do.
5. Its painfully obvious that the negro race wants to kill white people, they hate being negro color, and it makes them mad as hell, they would kill all the white people to get at this one Zimmerman dude, who was in the right shooting this Martin kid.
6. Problem is the media screwed the pouch stating Zimmerman was a white dude, which he is in fact a hispanic mostly, though his fathers name sounds Jewish, which is white.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## uptownlivin90

I've left this thread alone for a while. But I'd like to get some of the calmer more reasonable voices on this threads take on this new CNN article released today:



> But audio experts Tom Owen and Ed Primeau, who analyzed the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel using different techniques, said they don't believe it's Zimmerman who can be heard screaming in the background of the 911 calls.
> 
> "There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "As a matter of fact, after 28 years of doing this, *I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."*


Who screams on 911 call in Trayvon Martin case? - CNN.com

It's absolutely not conclusive by the way.

The analysis gives this a 48% chance that this is Zimmerman's voice screaming. According to the article researchers look for 60%+ in determining whether or not to "feel confident" about the voice samples matching. 

I've always been under the assumption that those screams indeed come from Zimmerman. However this new development puts serious doubts on that. If it turns out that these aren't Zimmerman's screams and these are Trayvons, it'd make listening to the screams a lot more chilling, being that they're screams of a dead teenager. It'd also make Zimmerman out to be a lot more sinister for claiming the screams were his knowing it was Trayvon yelling for help. But what would it mean for the case?

Like I said, I always thought it was a good chance 70-30 that Zimmerman was yelling for help. In my mind that's gone down to 40-60 40 for Zimmerman 60 for Trayvon. We'd need an audio sample of Trayvon in order for the test to be anywhere near conclusive though (and it still wouldn't be).


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> I've left this thread alone for a while. But I'd like to get some of the calmer more reasonable voices on this threads take on this new CNN article released today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But audio experts Tom Owen and Ed Primeau, who analyzed the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel using different techniques, said they don't believe it's Zimmerman who can be heard screaming in the background of the 911 calls.
> 
> "There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "As a matter of fact, after 28 years of doing this, *I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."*
> 
> 
> 
> Who screams on 911 call in Trayvon Martin case? - CNN.com
> 
> It's absolutely not conclusive by the way.
> 
> The analysis gives this a 48% chance that this is Zimmerman's voice screaming. According to the article researchers look for 60%+ in determining whether or not to "feel confident" about the voice samples matching.
> 
> I've always been under the assumption that those screams indeed come from Zimmerman. However this new development puts serious doubts on that. If it turns out that these aren't Zimmerman's screams and these are Trayvons, it'd make listening to the screams a lot more chilling, being that they're screams of a dead teenager. It'd also make Zimmerman out to be a lot more sinister for claiming the screams were his knowing it was Trayvon yelling for help. But what would it mean for the case?
> 
> Like I said, I always thought it was a good chance 70-30 that Zimmerman was yelling for help. In my mind that's gone down to 40-60 40 for Zimmerman 60 for Trayvon. We'd need an audio sample of Trayvon in order for the test to be anywhere near conclusive though (and it still wouldn't be).
Click to expand...


No assumption needed when there are signed witness statements saying it was Zimmerman yelling.


----------



## The Infidel

Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman Tape Editing Prompts Internal Probe at NBC
_
The edited call, which aired on NBC's "Today Show" on March 27, featured Zimmerman talking to a 911 dispatcher.

"This guy looks like he's up to no good ... he looks black," Zimmerman said in the edited segment.

That, it turns out, appears to be only part of the exchange that took place on the night of February 26. The complete exchange went like this:

Zimmerman: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

Dispatcher: "OK, and this guy -- is he black, white or Hispanic?"

Zimmerman: "He looks black."_


----------



## Emma

uptownlivin90 said:


> I've left this thread alone for a while. But I'd like to get some of the calmer more reasonable voices on this threads take on this new CNN article released today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But audio experts Tom Owen and Ed Primeau, who analyzed the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel using different techniques, said they don't believe it's Zimmerman who can be heard screaming in the background of the 911 calls.
> 
> "There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "As a matter of fact, after 28 years of doing this, *I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."*
> 
> 
> 
> Who screams on 911 call in Trayvon Martin case? - CNN.com
> 
> It's absolutely not conclusive by the way.
> 
> The analysis gives this a 48% chance that this is Zimmerman's voice screaming. According to the article researchers look for 60%+ in determining whether or not to "feel confident" about the voice samples matching.
> 
> I've always been under the assumption that those screams indeed come from Zimmerman. However this new development puts serious doubts on that. If it turns out that these aren't Zimmerman's screams and these are Trayvons, it'd make listening to the screams a lot more chilling, being that they're screams of a dead teenager. It'd also make Zimmerman out to be a lot more sinister for claiming the screams were his knowing it was Trayvon yelling for help. But what would it mean for the case?
> 
> Like I said, I always thought it was a good chance 70-30 that Zimmerman was yelling for help. In my mind that's gone down to 40-60 40 for Zimmerman 60 for Trayvon. We'd need an audio sample of Trayvon in order for the test to be anywhere near conclusive though (and it still wouldn't be).
Click to expand...


I thought they were Trayvon. The report of how his mother reacted when she heard the screams (prior to the release of the tapes to the public) and the abrupt end to the screams with the shot convinced me it was him.  Of course, I can't be 100% certain of that, but I do believe it was Martin screaming in the background. Then there is what the officer overheard while Zimmerman was being treated by EMS: _"I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."_  Something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion.  

Now we have 2 experts using 2 different forensic techniques coming to the same conclusion. 



> It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a _positive_ match  with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.
> Read more: Voice Heard Screaming On 911 Tape Is Not Trayvon Martin Shooter George Zimmerman, Expert Says | Fox News
> ​


I do hope these experts get audio of Martin and compare the tapes.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> No assumption needed when there are signed witness statements saying it was Zimmerman yelling.



It was raining, it was dark, and no one went close enough to say for sure who was yelling.


----------



## koshergrl

It doesn't matter what you believe.

The people who were there almost unanimously believe it was Zimmerman screaming.


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> It doesn't matter what you believe.
> 
> The people who were there almost unanimously believe it was Zimmerman screaming.



It was raining, it was dark, and _no_ one went close enough to say for sure who was yelling.


----------



## paperview

Emma said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've left this thread alone for a while. But I'd like to get some of the calmer more reasonable voices on this threads take on this new CNN article released today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But audio experts Tom Owen and Ed Primeau, who analyzed the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel using different techniques, said they don't believe it's Zimmerman who can be heard screaming in the background of the 911 calls.
> 
> "There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "As a matter of fact, after 28 years of doing this, *I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."*
> 
> 
> 
> Who screams on 911 call in Trayvon Martin case? - CNN.com
> 
> It's absolutely not conclusive by the way.
> 
> The analysis gives this a 48% chance that this is Zimmerman's voice screaming. According to the article researchers look for 60%+ in determining whether or not to "feel confident" about the voice samples matching.
> 
> I've always been under the assumption that those screams indeed come from Zimmerman. However this new development puts serious doubts on that. If it turns out that these aren't Zimmerman's screams and these are Trayvons, it'd make listening to the screams a lot more chilling, being that they're screams of a dead teenager. It'd also make Zimmerman out to be a lot more sinister for claiming the screams were his knowing it was Trayvon yelling for help. But what would it mean for the case?
> 
> Like I said, I always thought it was a good chance 70-30 that Zimmerman was yelling for help. In my mind that's gone down to 40-60 40 for Zimmerman 60 for Trayvon. We'd need an audio sample of Trayvon in order for the test to be anywhere near conclusive though (and it still wouldn't be).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought they were Trayvon. The report of how his mother reacted when she heard the screams (prior to the release of the tapes to the public) and the abrupt end to the screams with the shot convinced me it was him.  Of course, I can't be 100% certain of that, but I do believe it was Martin screaming in the background. Then there is what the officer overheard while Zimmerman was being treated by EMS: _"I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."_  Something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion.
> 
> Now we have 2 experts using 2 different forensic techniques coming to the same conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a _positive_ match  with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.
> Read more: Voice Heard Screaming On 911 Tape Is Not Trayvon Martin Shooter George Zimmerman, Expert Says | Fox News
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do hope these experts get audio of Martin and compare the tapes.
Click to expand...

" It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion."

Yeah.  That stuck out as me as well like a sore thumb, right from the beginning. He was saying that to the EMT, and he expressly said it so loud -- he wanted to be *sure* it was overheard by the cop.

Knowing full well he knew the ins and outs of the law (besides having attended Police  Academy himself, having his father and mother in the court system - he almost literally  was bathed in the details of the law his whole life) , 

...and the the way it would go down if it was to be a claim of self-defense in court, he seemed to go out of his way to make sure he got that on the record loud and clear.


----------



## Dick Tuck

uptownlivin90 said:


> I've left this thread alone for a while. But I'd like to get some of the calmer more reasonable voices on this threads take on this new CNN article released today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But audio experts Tom Owen and Ed Primeau, who analyzed the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel using different techniques, said they don't believe it's Zimmerman who can be heard screaming in the background of the 911 calls.
> 
> "There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "As a matter of fact, after 28 years of doing this, *I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."*
> 
> 
> 
> Who screams on 911 call in Trayvon Martin case? - CNN.com
> 
> It's absolutely not conclusive by the way.
> 
> The analysis gives this a 48% chance that this is Zimmerman's voice screaming. According to the article researchers look for 60%+ in determining whether or not to "feel confident" about the voice samples matching.
> 
> I've always been under the assumption that those screams indeed come from Zimmerman. However this new development puts serious doubts on that. If it turns out that these aren't Zimmerman's screams and these are Trayvons, it'd make listening to the screams a lot more chilling, being that they're screams of a dead teenager. It'd also make Zimmerman out to be a lot more sinister for claiming the screams were his knowing it was Trayvon yelling for help. But what would it mean for the case?
> 
> Like I said, I always thought it was a good chance 70-30 that Zimmerman was yelling for help. In my mind that's gone down to 40-60 40 for Zimmerman 60 for Trayvon. We'd need an audio sample of Trayvon in order for the test to be anywhere near conclusive though (and it still wouldn't be).
Click to expand...


What would make more sense would be Martin, who may have seen Zimmerman go for his gun and fight back to protect his life.

The interesting point is that after Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest, why didn't he call 911 back, say what happened, and ask for an ambulance?  Why didn't he do a quick frisk on Martin and attempt to scream for help then?  An eyewitness already claimed that Zimmerman jumped up after the shooting and walked away.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe.
> 
> The people who were there almost unanimously believe it was Zimmerman screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was raining, it was dark, and _no_ one went close enough to say for sure who was yelling.
Click to expand...


John said he saw it the little boy walking the dog said he saw it.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've left this thread alone for a while. But I'd like to get some of the calmer more reasonable voices on this threads take on this new CNN article released today:
> 
> Who screams on 911 call in Trayvon Martin case? - CNN.com
> 
> It's absolutely not conclusive by the way.
> 
> The analysis gives this a 48% chance that this is Zimmerman's voice screaming. According to the article researchers look for 60%+ in determining whether or not to "feel confident" about the voice samples matching.
> 
> I've always been under the assumption that those screams indeed come from Zimmerman. However this new development puts serious doubts on that. If it turns out that these aren't Zimmerman's screams and these are Trayvons, it'd make listening to the screams a lot more chilling, being that they're screams of a dead teenager. It'd also make Zimmerman out to be a lot more sinister for claiming the screams were his knowing it was Trayvon yelling for help. But what would it mean for the case?
> 
> Like I said, I always thought it was a good chance 70-30 that Zimmerman was yelling for help. In my mind that's gone down to 40-60 40 for Zimmerman 60 for Trayvon. We'd need an audio sample of Trayvon in order for the test to be anywhere near conclusive though (and it still wouldn't be).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they were Trayvon. The report of how his mother reacted when she heard the screams (prior to the release of the tapes to the public) and the abrupt end to the screams with the shot convinced me it was him.  Of course, I can't be 100% certain of that, but I do believe it was Martin screaming in the background. Then there is what the officer overheard while Zimmerman was being treated by EMS: _"I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."_  Something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion.
> 
> Now we have 2 experts using 2 different forensic techniques coming to the same conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a _positive_ match  with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.
> Read more: Voice Heard Screaming On 911 Tape Is Not Trayvon Martin Shooter George Zimmerman, Expert Says | Fox News
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do hope these experts get audio of Martin and compare the tapes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> " It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion."
> 
> Yeah.  That stuck out as me as well like a sore thumb, right from the beginning. He was saying that to the EMT, and he expressly said it so loud -- he wanted to be *sure* it was overheard by the cop.
> 
> Knowing full well he knew the ins and outs of the law (besides having attended Police  Academy himself, having his father and mother in the court system - he almost literally  was bathed in the details of the law his whole life) ,
> 
> ...and the the way it would go down if it was to be a claim of self-defense in court, he seemed to go out of his way to make sure he got that on the record loud and clear.
Click to expand...

Fucking assuming.


----------



## California Girl

Annie said:


> I've been following this story since a day or so after it happened. The first thing is that it was labeled a 'gated community' one would assume upscale with that. So I googled the development and found it was mainly townhomes around $100k or less, mostly less.
> 
> The crime rate indicated a need for 'neighborhood watch' or more likely increased police protection. Ever notice that 'secure neighborhoods' don't have neighborhood watches?
> 
> Anyhow, with the above observations I had to acknowledge early on that folks in legit neighborhood watches do not carry guns and certainly don't go beyond calling 911. They don't leave their vehicles and they don't engage with suspects. That pretty much fits into the comments from the dispatcher. That was evident from the start and a negative towards Zimmerman.
> 
> Since then more has come out on what transpired from perhaps bad judgment on Zimmerman's part, but might have much to do with claims of self-defense. Then again, later it might mean that Zimmerman overstated the harm or not?
> 
> I have to acknowledge that my initial response was to go against Zimmerman. Now? While there seems to be much to nail him with, I'm no longer sold that there wasn't a justifiable claim of self-defense here. Only a fair trial would prove it one way or another.



Can I just say.... you claim that neighborhood watch members do not carry firearms - and that is accurate... however.... Zimmerman was NOT on watch duty when the incident took place so that point is irrelevant. His claim is that he was heading to the store. Lots of people carry guns in their cars - as they have a right to do as long as it is legal... Your point about him being armed is not material. 

I agree with the part about him following Martin.... however, again, his story is that, as soon as the dispatcher said 'don't'... he stopped. If the incident happened as he described... and he stopped following and was returning to his car... everything that happened after that was not his responsibility. Far too many 'known unknowns' to make a rational judgment about guilt.


----------



## Dick Tuck

koshergrl said:


> It doesn't matter what you believe.
> 
> The people who were there almost unanimously believe it was Zimmerman screaming.



Assume that Martin saw Zimmerman go for his gun, finds the strength to knock him down, and get on top of him.

He might then be the one calling for help.  It might seem to eyewitnesses that the guy on the bottom were calling, but no one knows for sure.  I hope there's some good samples of Martin's voice, so we'll have some objective evidence, if the Florida DA finally decides to prosecute, without, what she called a "slam-dunk".


----------



## koshergrl

Why on earth do you believe you'll be called upon to make any decisions about this case?

Who the hell is "we"?


----------



## Emma

paperview said:


> " It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion."
> 
> Yeah.  That stuck out as me as well like a sore thumb, right from the beginning. He was saying that to the EMT, and he expressly said it so loud -- he wanted to be *sure* it was overheard by the cop.
> 
> Knowing full well he knew the ins and outs of the law (besides having attended Police  Academy himself, having his father and mother in the court system - he almost literally  was bathed in the details of the law his whole life) ,
> 
> ...and the the way it would go down if it was to be a claim of self-defense in court, he seemed to go out of his way to make sure he got that on the record loud and clear.


And having the CCL, he would have had to know the law on using force. 

That was my initial reaction. I do believe that Trayvon struck Zimmerman, although I don't believe anyone can say for sure how it started. So it's possible that Zimmerman was yelling, but IMO it was Trayvon. 

Oh ... something else in that CNN link. At the end of the video report, a "senior law enforcement instructor" addresses the timeline and the police report, and that the maximum amount of time Zimmerman could have been treated by EMS was about 8 minutes.


----------



## Emma

Dick Tuck said:


> *The interesting point is that after Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest, why didn't he call 911 back, say what happened, and ask for an ambulance? * Why didn't he do a quick frisk on Martin and attempt to scream for help then?  An eyewitness already claimed that Zimmerman jumped up after the shooting and walked away.



Good question. It's not like he wasn't used to dialing that number.


----------



## uptownlivin90

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what you believe.
> 
> The people who were there almost unanimously believe it was Zimmerman screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was raining, it was dark, and _no_ one went close enough to say for sure who was yelling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> John said he saw it *the little boy walking the dog said he saw it*.
Click to expand...


For the record the boy was extremely unsure of exactly what and who he saw. He did not say that he saw Zimmerman scream. He heard someone yelling and could not identify who.


----------



## California Girl

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> " It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion."
> 
> Yeah.  That stuck out as me as well like a sore thumb, right from the beginning. He was saying that to the EMT, and he expressly said it so loud -- he wanted to be *sure* it was overheard by the cop.
> 
> Knowing full well he knew the ins and outs of the law (besides having attended Police  Academy himself, having his father and mother in the court system - he almost literally  was bathed in the details of the law his whole life) ,
> 
> ...and the the way it would go down if it was to be a claim of self-defense in court, he seemed to go out of his way to make sure he got that on the record loud and clear.
> 
> 
> 
> And having the CCL, he would have had to know the law on using force.
> 
> That was my initial reaction. I do believe that Trayvon struck Zimmerman, although I don't believe anyone can say for sure how it started. So it's possible that Zimmerman was yelling, but IMO it was Trayvon.
> 
> Oh ... something else in that CNN link. At the end of the video report, a "senior law enforcement instructor" addresses the timeline and the police report, and that the maximum amount of time Zimmerman could have been treated by EMS was about 8 minutes.
Click to expand...


Thing is, Em.... it doesn't matter who 'believes' what. The only thing that matters is what evidence can prove or disprove.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> " It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion."
> 
> Yeah.  That stuck out as me as well like a sore thumb, right from the beginning. He was saying that to the EMT, and he expressly said it so loud -- he wanted to be *sure* it was overheard by the cop.
> 
> Knowing full well he knew the ins and outs of the law (besides having attended Police  Academy himself, having his father and mother in the court system - he almost literally  was bathed in the details of the law his whole life) ,
> 
> ...and the the way it would go down if it was to be a claim of self-defense in court, he seemed to go out of his way to make sure he got that on the record loud and clear.
> 
> 
> 
> And having the CCL, he would have had to know the law on using force.
> 
> That was my initial reaction. I do believe that Trayvon struck Zimmerman, although I don't believe anyone can say for sure how it started. So it's possible that Zimmerman was yelling, but IMO it was Trayvon.
> 
> Oh ... something else in that CNN link. At the end of the video report, a "senior law enforcement instructor" addresses the timeline and the police report, and that the maximum amount of time Zimmerman could have been treated by EMS was about 8 minutes.
Click to expand...


Let's build a case on assuming and throw the evidence and witness signed statements away we no longer need those things when you can assume some one is guilty and make it so.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was raining, it was dark, and _no_ one went close enough to say for sure who was yelling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John said he saw it *the little boy walking the dog said he saw it*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the record the boy was extremely unsure of exactly what and who he saw. He did not say that he saw Zimmerman scream. He heard someone yelling and could not identify who.
Click to expand...


The little boy was on camera,, he wasn't on camera the night the police took his statement, if he was unsure the investigating officer would have noted that. However he did see Trayvon on top of Zimmerman correct?


----------



## Emma

California Girl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> " It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion."
> 
> Yeah.  That stuck out as me as well like a sore thumb, right from the beginning. He was saying that to the EMT, and he expressly said it so loud -- he wanted to be *sure* it was overheard by the cop.
> 
> Knowing full well he knew the ins and outs of the law (besides having attended Police  Academy himself, having his father and mother in the court system - he almost literally  was bathed in the details of the law his whole life) ,
> 
> ...and the the way it would go down if it was to be a claim of self-defense in court, he seemed to go out of his way to make sure he got that on the record loud and clear.
> 
> 
> 
> And having the CCL, he would have had to know the law on using force.
> 
> That was my initial reaction. I do believe that Trayvon struck Zimmerman, although I don't believe anyone can say for sure how it started. So it's possible that Zimmerman was yelling, but IMO it was Trayvon.
> 
> Oh ... something else in that CNN link. At the end of the video report, a "senior law enforcement instructor" addresses the timeline and the police report, and that the maximum amount of time Zimmerman could have been treated by EMS was about 8 minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thing is, Em.... it doesn't matter who 'believes' what. The only thing that matters is what evidence can prove or disprove.
Click to expand...


Can't argue with that. I just think after this length of time, if they haven't been able to answer all these questions, they probably won't. Only two people know what _really_ happened that night, and one of them is dead. 

Martin's parents are going to go to their graves believing they heard their son screaming for his life before he was murdered. 

Zimmerman's are going to go to theirs believing their son was unfairly accused and harassed.


----------



## koshergrl

How do you know?

I get so tired of loons fantasizing about what people "think" and "believe".


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> How do you know?



Because they're parents.


----------



## uptownlivin90

bigrebnc1775 said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> John said he saw it *the little boy walking the dog said he saw it*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record the boy was extremely unsure of exactly what and who he saw. He did not say that he saw Zimmerman scream. He heard someone yelling and could not identify who.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The little boy was on camera,, he wasn't on camera the night the police took his statement, if he was unsure the investigating officer would have noted that. However he did see Trayvon on top of Zimmerman correct?
Click to expand...


From my knowledge he described the event in a way that suggests Zimmerman was under Trayvon.

But my question is what if he's wrong? What if he and the unnamed witness "John" really aren't as sure as we'd like to think? What if was too dark to tell? What if they were both on top of each other at one point in the altercation? What if forensic evidence comes out and conflicts with what the witnesses saw? 

What if the audio proves conclusively to be Trayvon's voice? Then what? That was the question I was asking.


----------



## koshergrl

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because they're parents.
Click to expand...

 
Oh, ok.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Emma said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> And having the CCL, he would have had to know the law on using force.
> 
> That was my initial reaction. I do believe that Trayvon struck Zimmerman, although I don't believe anyone can say for sure how it started. So it's possible that Zimmerman was yelling, but IMO it was Trayvon.
> 
> Oh ... something else in that CNN link. At the end of the video report, a "senior law enforcement instructor" addresses the timeline and the police report, and that the maximum amount of time Zimmerman could have been treated by EMS was about 8 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, Em.... it doesn't matter who 'believes' what. The only thing that matters is what evidence can prove or disprove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't argue with that. I just think after this length of time, if they haven't been able to answer all these questions, they probably won't. Only two people know what _really_ happened that night, and one of them is dead.
> 
> *Martin's parents are going to go to their graves believing they heard their son screaming for his life before he was murdered.*
> 
> Zimmerman's are going to go to theirs believing their son was unfairly accused and harassed.
Click to expand...


If they have any audio of their son at all it'd be wise of them to submit it to someone so we can have some conclusive evidence either way.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paperview said:
> 
> 
> 
> " It's too pat, almost rehearsed in a fashion."
> 
> Yeah.  That stuck out as me as well like a sore thumb, right from the beginning. He was saying that to the EMT, and he expressly said it so loud -- he wanted to be *sure* it was overheard by the cop.
> 
> Knowing full well he knew the ins and outs of the law (besides having attended Police  Academy himself, having his father and mother in the court system - he almost literally  was bathed in the details of the law his whole life) ,
> 
> ...and the the way it would go down if it was to be a claim of self-defense in court, he seemed to go out of his way to make sure he got that on the record loud and clear.
> 
> 
> 
> And having the CCL, he would have had to know the law on using force.
> 
> That was my initial reaction. I do believe that Trayvon struck Zimmerman, although I don't believe anyone can say for sure how it started. So it's possible that Zimmerman was yelling, but IMO it was Trayvon.
> 
> Oh ... something else in that CNN link. At the end of the video report, a "senior law enforcement instructor" addresses the timeline and the police report, and that the maximum amount of time Zimmerman could have been treated by EMS was about 8 minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's build a case on assuming and throw the evidence and witness signed statements away we no longer need those things when you can assume some one is guilty and make it so.
Click to expand...


This is a message board. No one here is 'building a case', we're just talking about it. 

Rest assured, nothing we say here is going to impact the investigation and (if it comes down to it) trial.


----------



## koshergrl

So there's no point in even pretending to care about the facts. We're just going to fabricate a complete story out of whole cloth...never mind if it relates in any way, shape or form to the actual events.

Roger that.


----------



## Emma

uptownlivin90 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, Em.... it doesn't matter who 'believes' what. The only thing that matters is what evidence can prove or disprove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't argue with that. I just think after this length of time, if they haven't been able to answer all these questions, they probably won't. Only two people know what _really_ happened that night, and one of them is dead.
> 
> *Martin's parents are going to go to their graves believing they heard their son screaming for his life before he was murdered.*
> 
> Zimmerman's are going to go to theirs believing their son was unfairly accused and harassed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they have any audio of their son at all it'd be wise of them to submit it to someone so we can have some conclusive evidence either way.
Click to expand...


I agree completely. I don't know if Martin's parents have given a statement regarding this, but before they come out in support of it they really should turn over a copy of his voice to be tested, too.


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> So there's no point in even pretending to care about the facts. We're just going to fabricate a complete story out of whole cloth...never mind if it relates in any way, shape or form to the actual events.
> 
> Roger that.



You finally understand how the interwebs work. Kudos!


----------



## koshergrl

Thank you for admitting you are committed to dishonesty and fantasy.

I will remember that the next time you interject yourself into a discussion about politics or current events.


----------



## Dick Tuck

uptownlivin90 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record the boy was extremely unsure of exactly what and who he saw. He did not say that he saw Zimmerman scream. He heard someone yelling and could not identify who.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The little boy was on camera,, he wasn't on camera the night the police took his statement, if he was unsure the investigating officer would have noted that. However he did see Trayvon on top of Zimmerman correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From my knowledge he described the event in a way that suggests Zimmerman was under Trayvon.
> 
> But my question is what if he's wrong? What if he and the unnamed witness "John" really aren't as sure as we'd like to think? What if was too dark to tell? What if they were both on top of each other at one point in the altercation? What if forensic evidence comes out and conflicts with what the witnesses saw?
> 
> What if the audio proves conclusively to be Trayvon's voice? Then what? That was the question I was asking.
Click to expand...


I think it's more likely that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, which is huge considering the weight difference.  The issue is why?  Did Zimmerman go for his gun, and Martin try to constrain him?  That's certainly what I'd do if some prick is stalking and chasing me.  I'd probably yell for help even if I had topsies and the other guy was going for a deadly weapon.


----------



## koshergrl

Maybe Martin wanted his vehicle.

Or maybe he just wanted to jump someone. His cousin was all gooey over the possibility of Trayvon cold cocking a bus driver, after all.


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> Thank you for admitting you are committed to dishonesty and fantasy.
> 
> I will remember that the next time you interject yourself into a discussion about politics or current events.



Do you honestly believe I give a shit what you think


----------



## Emma

koshergrl said:


> Maybe Martin wanted his vehicle.



The irony, it _burns_


----------



## koshergrl

Emma said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for admitting you are committed to dishonesty and fantasy.
> 
> I will remember that the next time you interject yourself into a discussion about politics or current events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you honestly believe I give a shit what you think
Click to expand...

 
Well that seems to be your entire focus when it comes to reviewing evidence...not the evidence itself, but what people THINK.

I guess you don't really care what people really think after all. You just care about your own fabricated storyline.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for admitting you are committed to dishonesty and fantasy.
> 
> I will remember that the next time you interject yourself into a discussion about politics or current events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you honestly believe I give a shit what you think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that seems to be your entire focus when it comes to reviewing evidence...not the evidence itself, but what people THINK.
> 
> I guess you don't really care what people really think after all. You just care about your own fabricated storyline.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of dick tuck and his embellishment of what happened.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

koshergrl said:


> Maybe Martin wanted his vehicle.
> 
> Or maybe he just wanted to jump someone. His cousin was all gooey over the possibility of Trayvon cold cocking a bus driver, after all.



Either way it would heighten his street cred.


----------



## ABikerSailor

There have been reports on the news this afternoon that the FBI took the voice recording and put it through some of their machines.

Guess what?  It's 99 percent certain according to the reports that it was Trayvon yelling for help.

It's probably gonna be all over the news tomorrow.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

ABikerSailor said:


> There have been reports on the news this afternoon that the FBI took the voice recording and put it through some of their machines.
> 
> Guess what?  It's 99 percent certain according to the reports that it was Trayvon yelling for help.
> 
> It's probably gonna be all over the news tomorrow.



Well god damn where is your fucking source? This is the second thread you posted that without a source.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

OH dear lord MSNBC still calling Zimmerman white

msnbc.com Video Player

OH and sea bitch they mention what you said but funny thing nothing about the FBI ,


----------



## Rat in the Hat

ABikerSailor said:


> There have been reports on the news this afternoon that the FBI took the voice recording and put it through some of their machines.
> 
> Guess what?  It's 99 percent certain according to the reports that it was Trayvon yelling for help.
> 
> It's probably gonna be all over the news tomorrow.



Where did they get the sample of Trayvon's voice? They would have needed one to get that high of an accuracy level.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Rat in the Hat said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> There have been reports on the news this afternoon that the FBI took the voice recording and put it through some of their machines.
> 
> Guess what?  It's 99 percent certain according to the reports that it was Trayvon yelling for help.
> 
> It's probably gonna be all over the news tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did they get the sample of Trayvon's voice? They would have needed one to get that high of an accuracy level.
Click to expand...


He's talking about those two experts.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDBqvEauYU]Trayvon Martin was punching Neighborhood Watchman when he was shot.flv - YouTube.flv - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## KissMy

ABikerSailor said:


> There have been reports on the news this afternoon that the FBI took the voice recording and put it through some of their machines.
> 
> Guess what?  It's 99 percent certain according to the reports that it was Trayvon yelling for help.
> 
> It's probably gonna be all over the news tomorrow.



The FBI is checking Zimmerman's 5 previous 911 tapes to see if he was only calling in black suspects in order to tell if he is a racist.

The fact is the voice print software only works on one word if that same "HELP" word is yelled by Zimmerman as a control. In order for it to compare different words it must measure timing between words, rate, rhythm, cadence, disfluency, pronunciation, dialect, inflection, pitch, etc. It can't determine any of this with just one word. Those two crackpots they showed on CNN are misrepresenting the technology used by the FBI.


----------



## KissMy

This Martin / Zimmerman voice comparison has anything but controlled conditions or good samples. As I read their test, it is not even close to accurate. Any lawyer will impeach their voice print analysis. It is such a poor analysis that doubtful IMHO that it will even warrant an arrest.

Steve Cain: One of the nation's leading experts on voiceprint technology.


> If you distort your natural speaking voice to the point that you're not giving parallel voice samples you're really not comparing apples and apples. You're comparing apples and oranges. An experienced operator would notice this immediately. If I see this I won't stand for it and I will tell the court I will not accept such a sample and often they'll throw the defendant in jail for failing to comply with the district attorney's request for a natural, undisguised sample*."Cain says that it's essential that speech samples contain exactly the same words and phrases as those in the questioned sample, because only identical speech sounds are used for comparison. He says the suspect should not be allowed to read the phrases from a transcript but should repeat each phrase after it is spoken by someone else. To avoid an unnatural response, the suspect should repeat the first phrase and proceed in the same manner with each successive phrase.* What are the limits of the accuracy of voiceprints?' The limits," says Cain, "generally are the quality of the evidence it self. It's like any other pattern-matching skill, such as handwriting. *You have to have good samples.*"


----------



## Dick Tuck

Rat in the Hat said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> There have been reports on the news this afternoon that the FBI took the voice recording and put it through some of their machines.
> 
> Guess what?  It's 99 percent certain according to the reports that it was Trayvon yelling for help.
> 
> It's probably gonna be all over the news tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did they get the sample of Trayvon's voice? They would have needed one to get that high of an accuracy level.
Click to expand...


Why don't you call them and ask them where they got their evidence on an ongoing investigation?


----------



## Si modo

Dick Tuck said:


> Rat in the Hat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> There have been reports on the news this afternoon that the FBI took the voice recording and put it through some of their machines.
> 
> Guess what?  It's 99 percent certain according to the reports that it was Trayvon yelling for help.
> 
> It's probably gonna be all over the news tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did they get the sample of Trayvon's voice? They would have needed one to get that high of an accuracy level.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you call them and ask them where they got their evidence on an ongoing investigation?
Click to expand...

You know that Zimmerman doesn't have to do shit to assist any cop or any DA in the investigation, right?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby




----------



## Dick Tuck

TheGreatGatsby said:


>



Who's the dude on the right? It's not kid who was killed.


----------



## eots

koshergrl said:


> *Maybe Martin wanted his vehicle.*
> 
> *Or maybe he just wanted to jump someone.* His cousin was all gooey over the possibility of Trayvon cold cocking a bus driver, after all.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKociU8t_Q]Waynes World- Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Dick Tuck said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the dude on the right? It's not kid who was killed.
Click to expand...


Yea. It is. Do your homework instead of giving me negative rep marks for telling the truth. That pic is from Traaaayyvoon's twitter account.


----------



## HomeInspect

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the dude on the right? It's not kid who was killed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea. It is. Do your homework instead of giving me negative rep marks for telling the truth. That pic is from Traaaayyvoon's twitter account.
Click to expand...


Nobody is better at profiling than the media.


----------



## California Girl

Emma said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> And having the CCL, he would have had to know the law on using force.
> 
> That was my initial reaction. I do believe that Trayvon struck Zimmerman, although I don't believe anyone can say for sure how it started. So it's possible that Zimmerman was yelling, but IMO it was Trayvon.
> 
> Oh ... something else in that CNN link. At the end of the video report, a "senior law enforcement instructor" addresses the timeline and the police report, and that the maximum amount of time Zimmerman could have been treated by EMS was about 8 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, Em.... it doesn't matter who 'believes' what. The only thing that matters is what evidence can prove or disprove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't argue with that. I just think after this length of time, if they haven't been able to answer all these questions, they probably won't. Only two people know what _really_ happened that night, and one of them is dead.
> 
> Martin's parents are going to go to their graves believing they heard their son screaming for his life before he was murdered.
> 
> Zimmerman's are going to go to theirs believing their son was unfairly accused and harassed.
Click to expand...


Thing is, Em, we don't know that they haven't answered those questions. All we know is that they are not releasing all the information and evidence they have.... and that is standard police procedure. We are not entitled to know. There is no reason for them to release all the details - and there are valid reasons why they do not release it. 

Seems to me, on the evidence we have available... it appears that, at some time during the altercation, Martin was on top of Zimmerman.... that does not mean Martin attacked Zimmerman.... we don't know what happened before the witnesses happened upon the incident. 

Seriously... we do not know enough to rationally judge anything. Which is why I defend only the process.... not Zimmerman, not Martin.


----------



## Emma

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the dude on the right? It's not kid who was killed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea. It is. Do your homework instead of giving me negative rep marks for telling the truth. That pic is from Traaaayyvoon's twitter account.
Click to expand...


No, it is not Martin. 



> *March 26: Fake photos of Trayvon.* Almost since the mass calls for  the arrest of George Zimmerman began, so did an effort to smear  Trayvon. New photos began popping up, including one of him shirtless and  giving the camera the middle finger. It turned out not to be Trayvon.  But it was too late for the Web.





> Who's the man on the right? The implication: It was Trayvon Martin. The  online rumor was that this photo was "pulled from Facebook." But on  Sunday, the Twitter aggregator (yes, we've come to that point) Twitchy,  which tracks viral content, retracted a post about the photo. "The photo on the right is not Trayvon Martin," editors wrote.





> But he was tweeting a different tune at 1:03 p.m., when  he wrote, Mixed up Drudge photo of Trayvon w Michelle Malkins.  Malkins is an admitted fake. Drudge? Dont know. Sorry. That tweet was  immediately followed by another saying, Malkin apologized for fake  #Trayvon photo. I apologize for mixing up her photo with one Drudge  used.
> Malkins site, twitchy.com, ran a photo it said was Martin shirtless  and giving two middle fingers to the camera and said it was a photo the  mainstream media was refusing to show. But it was not the same photo  Rosenberg objected to on Drudge, so it was unclear how he confused the  two. Malkins apology was also more unequivocal than Rosenbergs.
> We made a mistake, the site said in a post that later ran beneath  the photo. The photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was  shot by Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin  family.​



Why #TeamDueProcess is important for justice; Correction and update: Twitchy issues apology for fake Trayvon Martin photo | Twitchy

*Correction, 8:56 pm ET March 25, 2012*: *We made a mistake. The  photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by  Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin family.*


----------



## California Girl

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the dude on the right? It's not kid who was killed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea. It is. Do your homework instead of giving me negative rep marks for telling the truth. That pic is from Traaaayyvoon's twitter account.
Click to expand...


No it isn't. That's another kid. Already been proved - more than once.

Even if it was him... which I do not believe it is... what difference does it make? Does it prove him guilty of anything? No. It proves only that 17 year old kids goof around in front of cameras. Hardly earth-shattering news. Most of us have pictures from our teenage years that we would cringe at as grown ups. I know I do.


----------



## Emma

California Girl said:


> Thing is, Em, we don't know that they haven't answered those questions. All we know is that they are not releasing all the information and evidence they have.... and that is standard police procedure. We are not entitled to know. There is no reason for them to release all the details - and there are valid reasons why they do not release it.
> 
> Seems to me, on the evidence we have available... it appears that, at some time during the altercation, Martin was on top of Zimmerman.... that does not mean Martin attacked Zimmerman.... we don't know what happened before the witnesses happened upon the incident.
> 
> Seriously... we do not know enough to rationally judge anything. Which is why I defend only the process.... not Zimmerman, not Martin.



I've just given my opinion based on what has come out, and that has changed somewhat as _new_ information comes to light. Until this is completed, we're not going to know all the details of the investigation. I truly believe there will still be a lot of unanswered questions even then. I just hope that there is enough there to give both families some peace.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the dude on the right? It's not kid who was killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea. It is. Do your homework instead of giving me negative rep marks for telling the truth. That pic is from Traaaayyvoon's twitter account.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the man on the right? The implication: It was Trayvon Martin. The  online rumor was that this photo was "pulled from Facebook." But on  Sunday, the Twitter aggregator (yes, we've come to that point) Twitchy,  which tracks viral content, retracted a post about the photo. "The photo on the right is not Trayvon Martin," editors wrote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he was tweeting a different tune at 1:03 p.m., when  he wrote, Mixed up Drudge photo of Trayvon w Michelle Malkins.  Malkins is an admitted fake. Drudge? Dont know. Sorry. That tweet was  immediately followed by another saying, Malkin apologized for fake  #Trayvon photo. I apologize for mixing up her photo with one Drudge  used.
> Malkins site, twitchy.com, ran a photo it said was Martin shirtless  and giving two middle fingers to the camera and said it was a photo the  mainstream media was refusing to show. But it was not the same photo  Rosenberg objected to on Drudge, so it was unclear how he confused the  two. Malkins apology was also more unequivocal than Rosenbergs.
> We made a mistake, the site said in a post that later ran beneath  the photo. The photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was  shot by Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin  family.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why #TeamDueProcess is important for justice; Correction and update: Twitchy issues apology for fake Trayvon Martin photo | Twitchy
> 
> *Correction, 8:56 pm ET March 25, 2012*: *We made a mistake. The  photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by  Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin family.*
Click to expand...


OK but who is this?


----------



## Sallow

TheGreatGatsby said:


>



Oh cool.

You source an cheeky "faux ad" with a fake picture of Trayvon gotten from the Stormfront website.

Good stuff.



Racists Unite!


----------



## Sallow

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yea. It is. Do your homework instead of giving me negative rep marks for telling the truth. That pic is from Traaaayyvoon's twitter account.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he was tweeting a different tune at 1:03 p.m., when  he wrote, Mixed up Drudge photo of Trayvon w Michelle Malkins.  Malkins is an admitted fake. Drudge? Dont know. Sorry. That tweet was  immediately followed by another saying, Malkin apologized for fake  #Trayvon photo. I apologize for mixing up her photo with one Drudge  used.
> Malkins site, twitchy.com, ran a photo it said was Martin shirtless  and giving two middle fingers to the camera and said it was a photo the  mainstream media was refusing to show. But it was not the same photo  Rosenberg objected to on Drudge, so it was unclear how he confused the  two. Malkins apology was also more unequivocal than Rosenbergs.
> We made a mistake, the site said in a post that later ran beneath  the photo. The photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was  shot by Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin  family.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why #TeamDueProcess is important for justice; Correction and update: Twitchy issues apology for fake Trayvon Martin photo | Twitchy
> 
> *Correction, 8:56 pm ET March 25, 2012*: *We made a mistake. The  photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by  Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin family.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK but who is this?
Click to expand...


Looks like a kid that does what a thousand other kids do in front of cameras to be "rad".


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Sallow said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> Why #TeamDueProcess is important for justice; Correction and update: Twitchy issues apology for fake Trayvon Martin photo | Twitchy
> 
> *Correction, 8:56 pm ET March 25, 2012*: *We made a mistake. The  photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by  Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin family.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK but who is this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looks like a kid that does what a thousand other kids do in front of cameras to be "rad".
Click to expand...


But it is a picture of the innocent trayvon, is that a correct statement?


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> OK but who is this?



Looks like Martin, at least around the eyes and nose, shape of face.


----------



## paperview

A teenager  flipping the bird.

What *is* this world coming to.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

paperview said:


> A teenager  flipping the bird.
> 
> What *is* this world coming to.



Shows and unruly child with no parental guidance


----------



## koshergrl

Or a teen who engaged in activities his parents knew nothing about...

I lost my 14 y.o. boy for a few hours this weekend. He asked if he could ride his bike somewhere, I didn't pay close enough attention or establish a time line, I assumed I knew where he was going and for how long...I was wrong. He came home at dark, happy and tired, he'd discovered a new bike trail and spent a few hours exploring it but you know ANYTHING could have happened in those few hours..and I couldn't discipline him for what was a failure to communicate on my part....but those are the types of mistakes we all make, and the more you make them, the more likely your kid is to get into trouble.

I don't know that having more engaged parents would have kept Trayvon alive, sometimes kids just see a window and jump out it, and if it weren't for the hand of God none of them would make adulthood.


----------



## koshergrl

My kids do have social networking accounts...but I monitor them all the time. There are no pics of them doing obscene or even inappropriate stuff. And when the oldest looks like he might be poised on the brink of sharing inappropriate commentary, I make sure to post a comment in that thread so he reins it in. Otherwise, I go in and shut it down.

I actually spend time in my daughter's account, checking her friends, checking her messages, checking her links and likes...I routinely remove people and apps from her facebook.

Being a parent is a 24 hour a day job. There's no time to have a social life of your own...If you h ave teenaged boys and you have any time to yourself, you're doing something wrong.


----------



## Si modo

Sallow said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh cool.
> 
> You source an cheeky "faux ad" with a fake picture of Trayvon gotten from the Stormfront website.
> 
> Good stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Racists Unite!
Click to expand...

You say that's from Stormfront?

Link.


----------



## paperview

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh cool.
> 
> You source an cheeky "faux ad" with a fake picture of Trayvon gotten from the Stormfront website.
> 
> Good stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Racists Unite!
> 
> 
> 
> You say that's from Stormfront?
> 
> Link.
Click to expand...

Sourcing Trayvon Martin "Photos" From Stormfront : CJR


----------



## Rat in the Hat

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh cool.
> 
> You source an cheeky "faux ad" with a fake picture of Trayvon gotten from the Stormfront website.
> 
> Good stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Racists Unite!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You say that's from Stormfront?
> 
> Link.
Click to expand...


I don't think he can, Si.

Linking to another forum can get you a time-out.

But, I can't speak about them.


----------



## Si modo

paperview said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh cool.
> 
> You source an cheeky "faux ad" with a fake picture of Trayvon gotten from the Stormfront website.
> 
> Good stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Racists Unite!
> 
> 
> 
> You say that's from Stormfront?
> 
> Link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sourcing Trayvon Martin "Photos" From Stormfront : CJR
Click to expand...

Thanks.  That gives me a source for the pic on the left.

So, Stormfront thought the pic on the right was Trayvon Martin and they were wrong.

I'm more interested in the origin of the 'poster'.  I can't find any origin for that.  Anyway, it makes a damn good point.


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fkBWaWf-kI]Adult Red Herring - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Emma

> *Sanford, Florida (CNN)* -- A neighbor and friend of  George Zimmerman's said Tuesday on CNN that their neighborhood had  suffered eight burglaries, all committed by young black men, in the 15  months prior to Trayvon Martin's shooting.
> 
> 
> Frank Taaffe's account  paints a picture of a neighborhood watch volunteer making rounds in a  community suffering a spate of burglaries when he ran across what he  thought was a suspicious figure walking the streets. Police records  appear to only partially substantiate Taaffe's claims about the  burglaries, citing three of eight cases in which suspects were  identified as black males.
> 
> --
> 
> In his CNN interview, Taaffe credited Zimmerman with preventing what he  said would have been a ninth burglary by reporting a suspicious black  man trying to break into Taaffe's home.
> 
> 
> Zimmerman supporters say he was protecting neighborhood - CNN.com


Ol' George needs to tell his friends to STFU. They aren't helping


----------



## koshergrl

More evidence that his neighbors respected him, and the neighborhood was being overrun with criminals.


----------



## Emma

Heh. 

All along, Georgie's been claiming he didn't profile Trayvon... and here comes his "friend" and knocks that clean out from under him.


----------



## koshergrl

Kid channeling nolimitnigga is mistaken for a thug. Except he wasn't *mistaken*.

Wow, shocking indeed.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> *Sanford, Florida (CNN)* -- A neighbor and friend of  George Zimmerman's said Tuesday on CNN that their neighborhood had  suffered eight burglaries, all committed by young black men, in the 15  months prior to Trayvon Martin's shooting.
> 
> 
> Frank Taaffe's account  paints a picture of a neighborhood watch volunteer making rounds in a  community suffering a spate of burglaries when he ran across what he  thought was a suspicious figure walking the streets. Police records  appear to only partially substantiate Taaffe's claims about the  burglaries, citing three of eight cases in which suspects were  identified as black males.
> 
> --
> 
> In his CNN interview, Taaffe credited Zimmerman with preventing what he  said would have been a ninth burglary by reporting a suspicious black  man trying to break into Taaffe's home.
> 
> 
> Zimmerman supporters say he was protecting neighborhood - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> Ol' George needs to tell his friends to STFU. They aren't helping
Click to expand...

And you're starting to look more and more like a race baiter.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sanford, Florida (CNN)* -- A neighbor and friend of  George Zimmerman's said Tuesday on CNN that their neighborhood had  suffered eight burglaries, all committed by young black men, in the 15  months prior to Trayvon Martin's shooting.
> 
> 
> Frank Taaffe's account  paints a picture of a neighborhood watch volunteer making rounds in a  community suffering a spate of burglaries when he ran across what he  thought was a suspicious figure walking the streets. Police records  appear to only partially substantiate Taaffe's claims about the  burglaries, citing three of eight cases in which suspects were  identified as black males.
> 
> --
> 
> In his CNN interview, Taaffe credited Zimmerman with preventing what he  said would have been a ninth burglary by reporting a suspicious black  man trying to break into Taaffe's home.
> 
> 
> Zimmerman supporters say he was protecting neighborhood - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> Ol' George needs to tell his friends to STFU. They aren't helping
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you're starting to look more and more like a race baiter.
Click to expand...


Stop being silly. 

You have to admit that his friend isn't helping matters here, in essence stating that yes, Zimmerman DID target Martin because he's a young black male. There _are_ those who are going to run with that, and run hard --- just wait and see. 

I'm simply pointing out the obvious headache this is going to give Zimmerman & Co.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ol' George needs to tell his friends to STFU. They aren't helping
> 
> 
> 
> And you're starting to look more and more like a race baiter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop being silly.
> 
> You have to admit that his friend isn't helping matters here, in essence stating that yes, Zimmerman DID target Martin because he's a young black male. There _are_ those who are going to run with that, and run hard --- just wait and see.
> 
> I'm simply pointing out the obvious headache this is going to give Zimmerman & Co.
Click to expand...


Again if you're going to read into what his neighbor said I am going to do the same to what you said. You are starting to sound more and more like a race baiter.


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you're starting to look more and more like a race baiter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being silly.
> 
> You have to admit that his friend isn't helping matters here, in essence stating that yes, Zimmerman DID target Martin because he's a young black male. There _are_ those who are going to run with that, and run hard --- just wait and see.
> 
> I'm simply pointing out the obvious headache this is going to give Zimmerman & Co.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again if you're going to read into what his neighbor said I am going to do the same to what you said. You are starting to sound more and more like a race baiter.
Click to expand...


Stop being silly. 

I'm not reading anything into it. He flat out said what I quoted. You know damned well how that's going to play, and it does NOT help Zimmerman's claim that he did not target Martin because of his age/race.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being silly.
> 
> You have to admit that his friend isn't helping matters here, in essence stating that yes, Zimmerman DID target Martin because he's a young black male. There _are_ those who are going to run with that, and run hard --- just wait and see.
> 
> I'm simply pointing out the obvious headache this is going to give Zimmerman & Co.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again if you're going to read into what his neighbor said I am going to do the same to what you said. You are starting to sound more and more like a race baiter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop being silly.
> 
> I'm not reading anything into it. He flat out said what I quoted. You know damned well how that's going to play, and it does NOT help Zimmerman's claim that he did not target Martin because of his age/race.
Click to expand...


What his neighbor said has no bearing on what George was thinking. You are crossing the line of race baiter


----------



## Emma

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again if you're going to read into what his neighbor said I am going to do the same to what you said. You are starting to sound more and more like a race baiter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being silly.
> 
> I'm not reading anything into it. He flat out said what I quoted. You know damned well how that's going to play, and it does NOT help Zimmerman's claim that he did not target Martin because of his age/race.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What his neighbor said has no bearing on what George was thinking. You are crossing the line of race baiter
Click to expand...


No, but his friends coming to his defense have been used here and elsewhere to show us what a stand-up kinda guy Zimmerman really is ... this time, his friend stepped in it. Just like the one who said George had virtually lost his life, too. 

Have a good day, and stop being silly


----------



## bigrebnc1775

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being silly.
> 
> I'm not reading anything into it. He flat out said what I quoted. You know damned well how that's going to play, and it does NOT help Zimmerman's claim that he did not target Martin because of his age/race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What his neighbor said has no bearing on what George was thinking. You are crossing the line of race baiter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but his friends coming to his defense have been used here and elsewhere to show us what a stand-up kinda guy Zimmerman really is ... this time, his friend stepped in it. Just like the one who said George had virtually lost his life, too.
> 
> Have a good day, and stop being silly
Click to expand...


What Zimmerman's friend said and what you read into what they said has no bearing on what Zimmerman was thinking.


----------



## Mr. President

Chalk this case up under "Oh Well"


----------



## ABikerSailor

Emma said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being silly.
> 
> I'm not reading anything into it. He flat out said what I quoted. You know damned well how that's going to play, and it does NOT help Zimmerman's claim that he did not target Martin because of his age/race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What his neighbor said has no bearing on what George was thinking. You are crossing the line of race baiter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but his friends coming to his defense have been used here and elsewhere to show us what a stand-up kinda guy Zimmerman really is ... this time, his friend stepped in it. Just like the one who said George had virtually lost his life, too.
> 
> Have a good day, and stop being silly
Click to expand...


The only reason people are coming to Zimmerman's defense (like Joe Oliver who claims to be his best friend yet knows very little about him) is the same reason that other people came to Casey Anthony's defense.................

It's a situation that has drawn national attention and they all want to get on television.


----------



## koshergrl

Oh, ok.

I think this is the third reason that has been offered as a reason to discount all the eyewitness accounts, and instead roll with the imaginary scenarios.

Way to go, lynch mob! You guys rock!


----------



## JimBowie1958

When the press calls an hispanic man a 'white man' you know his goose is cooked.


----------



## koshergrl

If you've got any white, I guess you're all white..if you're Hispanic.

Works the opposite way with black..if you've got any black, you're all black.

If Zimmerman were a black hispanic, and Martin a white Hispanic, Zimmerman would be a fucking hero to these idiots. They'd be naming their kids after him. They'd name a street after him, and have Zimmerman Black Pride parades. They'd set up an account to fund a legal defense for him, and pay for a press secretary to handle his public appearances.

And they wouldn't be calling him, his family and his friends with death threats. They wouldn't have a bounty on his head. They wouldn't be looting stores in his name. Cuz killing a white guy is just good anyway you cut it!


----------



## Unkotare

koshergrl said:


> If you've got any white, I guess you're all white..





Don't tell the President that!


----------



## Katzndogz

If there was a seriies of crimes in this neighborhood and those crimes were all committed by young black males wearing a hoodie there is only one answer.  When you hear hoofbeats think horses not unicorns.  

In this case, sadly enough, Trayvon Martin was another victim of black crime.


----------



## Emma

Katzndogz said:


> If there was a seriies of crimes in this neighborhood and those crimes were all committed by young black males wearing a hoodie there is only one answer.  When you hear hoofbeats think horses not unicorns.
> 
> In this case, sadly enough, Trayvon Martin was another victim of black crime.


George's "friend" is defending what he did because he (friend) claims there were 8 (almost 9!!) burglaries committed by young black males. The police records show that in only 3 of the 8 cases were the suspects ID'd as black males.


----------



## Ariux

Katzndogz said:


> If there was a seriies of crimes in this neighborhood and those crimes were all committed by young black males wearing a hoodie there is only one answer.  When you hear hoofbeats think horses not unicorns.
> 
> In this case, sadly enough, Trayvon Martin was another victim of black crime.



If Trayvon was not casing the neighborhood, what you say is true.

Part of the bigotry against Zimmerman is that he acted purely by profiling (crime by young black men + Trayvon = 911 call).  But, he called the police because he thought Trayvon looked like he was casing the neighborhood.   It's possible that someone else seeing a white man doing exactly what Trayvon was doing, in a neighborhood without any recent burglaries, would have still called 911.


----------



## Ariux

Emma said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there was a seriies of crimes in this neighborhood and those crimes were all committed by young black males wearing a hoodie there is only one answer.  When you hear hoofbeats think horses not unicorns.
> 
> In this case, sadly enough, Trayvon Martin was another victim of black crime.
> 
> 
> 
> George's "friend" is defending what he did because he (friend) claims there were 8 (almost 9!!) burglaries committed by young black males. The police records show that in only 3 of the 8 cases were the suspects ID'd as black males.
Click to expand...


The shit-for-brains racist lynch mob want us to believe that most of these burglaries weren't committed by blacks.  Emma, how many suspects were ID'd as white?  If only 3 of the criminals were black, the odds of all three being ID'd, and no one else, is under 2%.  This neighborhood has been under a siege by black criminals, just like all of society.


----------



## koshergrl

It doesn't matter. There's absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman profiled him. He couldn't tell what color he was at first. He followed him because he was acting weird, then stared him down and came towards him...when Zimmerman got out of his car to meet him the kid ran.

Suspicious and creepy behavior. I don't think Zimmerman was reading from a script or making it up when he was on the phone to 911.


----------



## uptownlivin90

Ariux said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there was a seriies of crimes in this neighborhood and those crimes were all committed by young black males wearing a hoodie there is only one answer.  When you hear hoofbeats think horses not unicorns.
> 
> In this case, sadly enough, Trayvon Martin was another victim of black crime.
> 
> 
> 
> George's "friend" is defending what he did because he (friend) claims there were 8 (almost 9!!) burglaries committed by young black males. The police records show that in only 3 of the 8 cases were the suspects ID'd as black males.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The shit-for-brains *racist* lynch mob want us to believe that most of these burglaries weren't committed by blacks.  Emma, how many suspects were ID'd as white?  If only 3 of the criminals were black, the odds of all three being ID'd, and no one else, is under 2%.  This neighborhood has been under a siege by black criminals, just like all of society.
Click to expand...


You throw the term "racist" around like an insult as if you're not one.


----------



## Ariux

uptownlivin90 said:


> You throw the term "racist" around like an insult as if you're not one.



If Zimmerman were the African and the Trayvon were the Jew Hispanic, I'd still stand behind Zimmerman.  Sure, I don't want Africans living near me, for statistical and cultural reasons, but I'm going to be fair to everyone regardless of race... something the shit-for-brains racist lynch mob can't accomplish.  I call them racist, because 1) they are,  2) it's about the only thing they understand.


----------



## eots

> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. There's absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman profiled him. He couldn't tell what color he was at first. He followed him because he was acting weird
> 
> 
> 
> DESCRIBE _WEIRD_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then stared him down
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ZIMMERMAN WAS OBVIOUSLY STARING AT HIM FIRST...HE LOOKED TO SEE WHY THE WEIRDO WAS STARING AT HIM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and came towards him...when Zimmerman got out of his car to meet him the kid ran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If he was walking in his direction ..which is certainly no crme and had bad intent why would he then...run away ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suspicious and creepy behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> seems normal enough to me ..you on the other hand come across very Suspicious and creepy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Zimmerman was reading from a script or making it up when he was on the phone to 911.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he didn't need a script he had his paranoid imaginings..like you
Click to expand...


----------



## uptownlivin90

Ariux said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You throw the term "racist" around like an insult as if you're not one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Zimmerman were the African and the Trayvon were the Jew Hispanic, I'd still stand behind Zimmerman.  Sure, I don't want Africans living near me, for statistical and cultural reasons, *but I'm going to be fair to everyone regardless of race*... something the shit-for-brains racist lynch mob can't accomplish.  I call them racist, because 1) they are,  2) it's about the only thing they understand.
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

Cuz everything's a conspiracy, isn't it...

Whackjob.


----------



## uptownlivin90

koshergrl said:


> Cuz everything's a conspiracy, isn't it...
> 
> Whackjob.



Well everything in this case is a conspiracy.

Either Zimmerman conspired to profile, chase down, and shoot an innocent black teenager because he was black.

OR

A ruthless criminal thug black gang-banger conspired to lure Zimmerman out of his car by running away... then viciously attack him to steal his car.

OR 

It was somewhere in between these two conspiracies or just a completely messed-up and horrible misunderstanding that led to the tragic death of an unarmed teenager.

In other words... both sides have their conspiracy theorists.


----------



## LilOlLady

The more daddy zimmerman and brother zimmerman try to defend Zimmerman the more they convict him because their stories keep changing. His attorney need to tell them to shut the hell up. His dad said when he was on the 9-11 phone call he was told *not to follow Trayvon* and he said* O.K.* and he lost sight of Trayvon but he said *s***, hes running* which sound like he was running away. Getting away so zimmerman had to follow  him and confront him with "what are you doing here" not identifying  himself as neighborhood watch which would have made all the difference. But Zimmerman chose not to and got his ass kicked and use deadly force when deadly force was not necessary for him to kick this kid's butt with his police academy training.


----------



## bayoubill

mebbe if Zimmerman happens to be in the Reno area, we could have him drop by LilOlLady's house to give her sumpin' she's wanted but hasn't had in decades... ;-)


----------



## koshergrl

LilOlLady said:


> The more daddy zimmerman and brother zimmerman try to defend Zimmerman the more they convict him because their stories keep changing. His attorney need to tell them to shut the hell up. His dad said when he was on the 9-11 phone call he was told *not to follow Trayvon* and he said* O.K.* and he lost sight of Trayvon but he said *s***, hes running* which sound like he was running away. Getting away so zimmerman had to follow him and confront him with "what are you doing here" not identifying himself as neighborhood watch which would have made all the difference. But Zimmerman chose not to and got his ass kicked and use deadly force when deadly force was not necessary for him to kick this kid's butt with his police academy training.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Everything in color is made up.


----------



## Ariux

eots said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. There's absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman profiled him. He couldn't tell what color he was at first. He followed him because he was acting weird
> 
> 
> 
> DESCRIBE _WEIRD_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you enjoy playing stupid?  We'd have to ask Zimmerman what weird is, but whatever it was, it was suspicious enough to call 911.  I know, the shit-for-brains lynch mob prejudicially thinks Zimmerman just called 911 because the African was black.  But, if that was the reason, Zimmerman would be calling 911 countless times every day 'cause his 'hood is severely infested with Africans.
> 
> Trayvon was probably looking in car windows, rubbernecking around homes, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZIMMERMAN WAS OBVIOUSLY STARING AT HIM FIRST...HE LOOKED TO SEE WHY THE WEIRDO WAS STARING AT HIM
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're missing the point.  Trayvon then tried to intimidate Zimmerman by staring at him and moving closer.  Then the piece-of-shit African decided to beat the shit out of Zimmerman for staring at him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he didn't need a script he had his paranoid imaginings..like you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're projecting your shithead racism onto Zimmerman.
Click to expand...


----------



## The Gadfly

koshergrl said:


> It doesn't matter. There's absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman profiled him. He couldn't tell what color he was at first. He followed him because he was acting weird, then stared him down and came towards him...when Zimmerman got out of his car to meet him the kid ran.
> 
> Suspicious and creepy behavior. I don't think Zimmerman was reading from a script or making it up when he was on the phone to 911.



Yeah, and Martin probably would have been "acting weird" in a way, albeit for innocent reasons.Martin was visiting; the neighborhood was not a place he was very familiar with. a look at pictures of it show a place where the streets and buildings look pretty much alike; an easy place for someone unfamiliar with it to get lost, or at least be uncertain, in, especially in the dark. Its not hard to picture Martin, hoodie pulled over his head because of the light rain, frequently stopping, looking for a landmark; looking around, trying to get his bearings-which would have looked very much like the behavior of someone casing a place, and at any distance at all, he would have looked like a slender, fairly tall adult, not a kid.That set of unfortunate coincidences may have started this whole thing, and most likely did. As far as "profiling", when the dispatcher asked the race of the subject, did Zimmerman say "Black." or did he say "I think he's Black"? Again, from a distance of more than a few feet, it would have been difficult in those lighting conditions, for Zimmerman or anyone else to know Martin's race with any certainty.


----------



## Ariux

uptownlivin90 said:


> horrible misunderstanding that led to the tragic death of an unarmed teenager.



Don't be stupid.  A misunderstanding has nothing to do with it.   Trayvon correctly understood that Zimmerman was watching him.  And, Zimmerman correctly understood that if he didn't shoot Trayvon, that he'd end up seriously wounded, maybe killed.


----------



## Ariux

The Gadfly said:


> Yeah, and Martin probably would have been "acting weird" in a way, albeit for innocent reasons.Martin was visiting; the neighborhood was not a place he was very familiar with. a look at pictures of it show a place where the streets and buildings look pretty much alike; an easy place for someone unfamiliar with it to get lost, or at least be uncertain, in, especially in the dark. Its not hard to picture Martin, hoodie pulled over his head because of the light rain, frequently stopping, looking for a landmark; looking around, trying to get his bearings-which would have looked very much like the behavior of someone casing a place, and at any distance at all, he would have looked like a slender, fairly tall adult, not a kid.That set of unfortunate coincidences may have started this whole thing, and most likely did.



From where comes this presumption that Trayvon wasn't casing the neighborhood?  Is it just not credible that a no-limit-nigga, once caught with a burglary tool in his backpack, and currently suspended from school for drugs, might have been casing the neighborhood?

I give you credit for not assuming that Zimmerman just made up everything (just because Zimmerman is deemed white).  

I heard some African on TV say that Trayvon's father had warned Travon about being black.  If shithead Africans are so aware of the dangers of being black, why don't they make some effort to be more careful?  No hoodie or baggie pants.  _Walk down the street like you're going somewhere, not like you're casing the place._  Etc.  Oh yeah, don't go around trying to beat the crap out of people just for looking at you.  BTW, why can't white parents warn their white children about the dangers of blacks?


----------



## Unkotare

You are truly a stupid, worthless piece of shit.


----------



## Liability

Unkotare said:


> You are truly a stupid, worthless piece of shit.



Unkotare does not much like me.  

It's casual.  I am not Unkotare's biggest fan, either.

And that makes it difficult to have to agree with him yet again.

But Ariux, you really ARE a stupid, worthless piece  of shit.


----------



## Ariux

Liability said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are truly a stupid, worthless piece of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare does not much like me.
> 
> It's casual.  I am not Unkotare's biggest fan, either.
> 
> And that makes it difficult to have to agree with him yet again.
> 
> But Ariux, you really ARE a stupid, worthless piece  of shit.
Click to expand...


Ah, did I make you two cry.


----------



## Unkotare

Liability said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are truly a stupid, worthless piece of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare does not much like me.
> 
> It's casual.  I am not Unkotare's biggest fan, either.
> 
> And that makes it difficult to have to agree with him yet again.
Click to expand...





Sometimes it just can't be avoided.


----------



## Unkotare

Ariux said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are truly a stupid, worthless piece of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare does not much like me.
> 
> It's casual.  I am not Unkotare's biggest fan, either.
> 
> And that makes it difficult to have to agree with him yet again.
> 
> But Ariux, you really ARE a stupid, worthless piece  of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, did I make you two cry.
Click to expand...



No, you made yourself look like a fucking loser - again.


----------



## Ravi

Ariux said:


> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> horrible misunderstanding that led to the tragic death of an unarmed teenager.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid.  A misunderstanding has nothing to do with it.   Trayvon correctly understood that Zimmerman was watching him. * And, Zimmerman correctly understood that if he didn't shoot Trayvon, that he'd end up seriously wounded, maybe killed.*
Click to expand...

This is the problem in a nutshell. People like you exist.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ariux said:


> The Gadfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and Martin probably would have been "acting weird" in a way, albeit for innocent reasons.Martin was visiting; the neighborhood was not a place he was very familiar with. a look at pictures of it show a place where the streets and buildings look pretty much alike; an easy place for someone unfamiliar with it to get lost, or at least be uncertain, in, especially in the dark. Its not hard to picture Martin, hoodie pulled over his head because of the light rain, frequently stopping, looking for a landmark; looking around, trying to get his bearings-which would have looked very much like the behavior of someone casing a place, and at any distance at all, he would have looked like a slender, fairly tall adult, not a kid.That set of unfortunate coincidences may have started this whole thing, and most likely did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From where comes this presumption that Trayvon wasn't casing the neighborhood?  Is it just not credible that a no-limit-nigga, once caught with a burglary tool in his backpack, and currently suspended from school for drugs, might have been casing the neighborhood?
> 
> I give you credit for not assuming that Zimmerman just made up everything (just because Zimmerman is deemed white).
> 
> I heard some African on TV say that Trayvon's father had warned Travon about being black.  If shithead Africans are so aware of the dangers of being black, why don't they make some effort to be more careful?  No hoodie or baggie pants.  _Walk down the street like you're going somewhere, not like you're casing the place._  Etc.  Oh yeah, don't go around trying to beat the crap out of people just for looking at you.  BTW, why can't white parents warn their white children about the dangers of blacks?
Click to expand...


Nice.........we've got yet another fringe racist joining the boards.


----------



## KissMy

ABikerSailor said:


> Nice.........we've got yet another fringe racist joining the boards.



Why did you put a racist title this thread if you are not a racist??????


----------



## paulitician

ABikerSailor wearing his new Hoody...


----------



## koshergrl

Ravi said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uptownlivin90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> horrible misunderstanding that led to the tragic death of an unarmed teenager.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid. A misunderstanding has nothing to do with it. Trayvon correctly understood that Zimmerman was watching him. *And, Zimmerman correctly understood that if he didn't shoot Trayvon, that he'd end up seriously wounded, maybe killed.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the problem in a nutshell. People like you exist.
Click to expand...

 
Grab a rope, Ravi! Let the fun begin! You gonna string you up some crackers, huh?


----------



## Liability

ABikerSailor said:


> Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked and racially motivated.
> 
> Stories from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Lucas Marries
> Dr. Jennifer Arnold and Bill Klein Want to Adopt a Child with Special Needs
> Jessica Simpson Expresses Thanks for 'Dream' Baby Shower
> Jersey Shore Will Return for Season 6
> Hugh Grant Likes Daughter Tabitha 'Very Much'
> .
> .
> Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.
> Video: Mom: Teen targeted due to of color of his skin (on this page)
> But Martin's family is pointing to 911 calls released by police on Friday that they say depict a terrified teenager who was being chased by Zimmerman. Martin was found face down, unarmed, with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.
> 
> (Zimmerman) was reacting to the color of his skin, Martins mother, Sybrina Fulton, told Matt Lauer on Monday. He committed no crime. My son wasnt doing anything but walking on the sidewalk, and I just dont understand why this situation got out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mom: Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin' - TODAY People - TODAY.com
> 
> According to the person who shot the teen, he'd seen him walking through the neighborhood and thought he was acting "suspiciously".  He then calls 911 to report the teen and the police asked him if he was following the kid.  He replied "yes" and the police then told him to quit.
> 
> A bit later, another 911 call is made and the caller tells police that she hears someone yelling for help (the teen), and it's shortly after that when a gunshot is heard.
> 
> The teen was found face down, dead, with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles in his hand.
> 
> To date?  The person who shot the teen, a man named Zimmerman is STILL walking free, and no charges have been filed.
> 
> Do you think that if a black adult had shot a white teen, that the result would have been the same?
Click to expand...


Just to follow up a little bit.

The "victim" may not have been exactly innocent and the shooter might have been legally justified.

A tragedy all the same.

But not the kind originally suggested.


----------



## Liability

Ariux said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are truly a stupid, worthless piece of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare does not much like me.
> 
> It's casual.  I am not Unkotare's biggest fan, either.
> 
> And that makes it difficult to have to agree with him yet again.
> 
> But Ariux, you really ARE a stupid, worthless piece  of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, did I make you two cry.
Click to expand...


Nah, pussy.  

You make me laugh.

At you.

You have no brains, no balls, no persuasive power and you suck donkey dick in hell.

All in all, you are the epitome of fail.


----------



## PredFan

Another day of freedom for George Zimmerman. Could it be because there aren't enough signitures on Al Sharpton's petition? Maybe it's because there aren't enough protests? Perhaps it's because there isn't enough media coverage?

OR is it because Zimmerman's story fits the evidence and the eye witness accounts?

The Grand Jury is supposed to convene on this in two days...IF it is ever presented to the GJ.


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## bigrebnc1775

KissMy said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice.........we've got yet another fringe racist joining the boards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you put a racist title this thread if you are not a racist??????
Click to expand...


Would you agree that someone who wrote this is a racist?



> Neg rep returned you cock smoking bigoted piece of shit. Fuck off, fuck whatever spawned you, and fuck whatever spawned you spawned. A pox on your whole fucking race.


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## KissMy

PredFan said:


> Another day of freedom for George Zimmerman. Could it be because there aren't enough signitures on Al Sharpton's petition? Maybe it's because there aren't enough protests? Perhaps it's because there isn't enough media coverage?
> 
> OR is it because Zimmerman's story fits the evidence and the eye witness accounts?
> 
> The Grand Jury is supposed to convene on this in two days...IF it is ever presented to the GJ.



I can't wait to see how many more of those racist shit-bags get thrown into jail, lose their jobs or have to pay huge settlements for attacking Zimmerman or any one else in retaliation for him.


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## PredFan

KissMy said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another day of freedom for George Zimmerman. Could it be because there aren't enough signitures on Al Sharpton's petition? Maybe it's because there aren't enough protests? Perhaps it's because there isn't enough media coverage?
> 
> OR is it because Zimmerman's story fits the evidence and the eye witness accounts?
> 
> The Grand Jury is supposed to convene on this in two days...IF it is ever presented to the GJ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see how many more of those racist shit-bags get thrown into jail, lose their jobs or have to pay huge settlements for attacking Zimmerman or any one else in retaliation for him.
Click to expand...


I would love to see that.


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## paulitician

ABikerSailor on the phone wth Al Sharpton, planning his next Race-Baiter thread fail.


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## ABikerSailor

bigrebnc1775 said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice.........we've got yet another fringe racist joining the boards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you put a racist title this thread if you are not a racist??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you agree that someone who wrote this is a racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neg rep returned you cock smoking bigoted piece of shit. Fuck off, fuck whatever spawned you, and fuck whatever spawned you spawned. A pox on your whole fucking race.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I said he was bigoted, not racist, and was referring to belief that he's not human, because humans aren't that stupid.

But, racist assholes like you see racism everywhere.  Tell ya what Little Rebecca, look up racist and bigot in the dictionary sometime.

There is a difference.


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## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,


1. Looks like the *gay biker* is getting some *blowback* over this thread. 
2. Ah, poetic justice perhaps?
3. Another libturd sticks his nose up Al Sharptons *ol lib media himself*, ass then ol Al makes a windy. 
4. I love that when that happens!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
4.


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## bigrebnc1775

ABikerSailor said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you put a racist title this thread if you are not a racist??????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you agree that someone who wrote this is a racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neg rep returned you cock smoking bigoted piece of shit. Fuck off, fuck whatever spawned you, and fuck whatever spawned you spawned. *A pox on your whole fucking race*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said he was bigoted, not racist, and was referring to belief that he's not human, because humans aren't that stupid.
> 
> But, racist assholes like you see racism everywhere.  Tell ya what Little Rebecca, look up racist and bigot in the dictionary sometime.
> 
> There is a difference.
Click to expand...


What was the meaning of 


> A pox on your whole fucking race


That is about as racist as anyone can get.


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## Ravi

koshergrl said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid. A misunderstanding has nothing to do with it. Trayvon correctly understood that Zimmerman was watching him. *And, Zimmerman correctly understood that if he didn't shoot Trayvon, that he'd end up seriously wounded, maybe killed.*
> 
> 
> 
> This is the problem in a nutshell. People like you exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Grab a rope, Ravi! Let the fun begin! You gonna string you up some crackers, huh?
Click to expand...

I know you agree with him. How sad is that, Babble?


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## Ariux

Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.


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## Unkotare

Ariux said:


> Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.




So, you're still a stupid fucking douchebag? Thanks for the update.


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## koshergrl

Ravi said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the problem in a nutshell. People like you exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grab a rope, Ravi! Let the fun begin! You gonna string you up some crackers, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know you agree with him. How sad is that, Babble?
Click to expand...

 
What's sad is that you think you actually know what happened, based on the fact the dead guy is black and the live guy is white... and you're willing to act on it.


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## barry1960

Ariux said:


> Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.



There is no such thing as an innocent black teenager? Does that mean they are all guilty of something? Do you care to enlighten us further with your racist wisdom?


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## Unkotare

barry1960 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as an innocent black teenager? Does that mean they are all guilty of something? Do you care to enlighten us further with your racist wisdom?
Click to expand...



Don't ask. It might.


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## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.



You really are a piece of trash.


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## KissMy

bigrebnc1775 said:


> What was the meaning of
> 
> 
> 
> A pox on your whole fucking race
> 
> 
> 
> That is about as racist as anyone can get.
Click to expand...


^^^^^
AgaySailor is obviously a racist hypocrite.


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## Ariux

barry1960 said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as an innocent black teenager? Does that mean they are all guilty of something? Do you care to enlighten us further with your racist wisdom?
Click to expand...


If "blacks can't be racist", then it's only fair to concluded that they can't be innocent, either.


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## High_Gravity

Ariux said:


> barry1960 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as an innocent black teenager? Does that mean they are all guilty of something? Do you care to enlighten us further with your racist wisdom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If "blacks can't be racist", then it's only fair to concluded that they can't be innocent, either.
Click to expand...


That makes no fucking sense, you are dumb as fuck.


----------



## barry1960

Ariux said:


> barry1960 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the title of this thread, it's impossible... because there's no such thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as an innocent black teenager? Does that mean they are all guilty of something? Do you care to enlighten us further with your racist wisdom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If "blacks can't be racist", then it's only fair to concluded that they can't be innocent, either.
Click to expand...


So if A does not equal B, then C does not equal D? This appears to be a propositional fallacy.


----------



## Ariux

barry1960 said:


> If "blacks can't be racist", then it's only fair to concluded that they can't be innocent, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if A does not equal B, then C does not equal D? This appears to be a propositional fallacy.
Click to expand...


First, A=C.  Second, if B (racist) is true for none of A (blacks), then by the same reason, D (innocent) is true for none of C (blacks).


----------



## barry1960

Ariux said:


> barry1960 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If "blacks can't be racist", then it's only fair to concluded that they can't be innocent, either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if A does not equal B, then C does not equal D? This appears to be a propositional fallacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, A=C.  Second, if B (racist) is true for none of A (blacks), then by the same reason, D (innocent) is true for none of C (blacks).
Click to expand...


Another propositional fallacy.

If A (Blacks) cannot be B (racist) how does it follow that A (Blacks) cannot be innocent? 

If such a statement were true, then anyone who is not a racist could not be innocent. Therefore only racists could be innocent.

In other words, your conclusion based upon the first statement, does not logically follow. Therefore your argument is illogical. It is also full of crap.


----------



## Ariux

barry1960 said:


> Another propositional fallacy.
> 
> If A (Blacks) cannot be B (racist) how does it follow that A (Blacks) cannot be innocent?



I didn't say one followed the other.  I said one is true for the same reason the other is true.  That means they both follow something else, the reason why if A then not B.  Part of that reasoning is that what's true of one element of A is true of all elements of A.  Therefor, if one element of A isn't innocent, then none of the elements of A is innocent.



> If such a statement were true, then anyone who is not a racist could not be innocent. Therefore only racists could be innocent.



Okay, I'll concede that point.


----------



## Dick Tuck

bigrebnc1775 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you agree that someone who wrote this is a racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said he was bigoted, not racist, and was referring to belief that he's not human, because humans aren't that stupid.
> 
> But, racist assholes like you see racism everywhere.  Tell ya what Little Rebecca, look up racist and bigot in the dictionary sometime.
> 
> There is a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was the meaning of
> 
> 
> 
> A pox on your whole fucking race
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is about as racist as anyone can get.
Click to expand...


Aren't shallow end of the genepool, mouth breathing, first cousin marrying, knuckle draggers try, eugenically, to create their own race?


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## GUNSIDEAUG

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKvu_EJo_Q4]White women love black men. - YouTube[/ame]


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## mal

Classic... So much Material here.



peace...


----------

