# Islamization of Paris



## AllieBaba (Sep 3, 2010)

This is what's in store for America if we don't stand up for ourselves:

"His camera shows that Muslims "are blocking the streets with barriers. They are praying on the ground. And the inhabitants of this district cannot leave their homes, nor go into their homes during those prayers."

"The Muslims taking over those streets do not have any authorization. They do not go to the police headquarters, so it's completely illegal," he says.

The Muslims in the street have been granted unofficial rights that no Christian group is likely to get under France's Laicite', or secularism law. 

"It says people have the right to share any belief they want, any religion," Lepante explained. "But they have to practice at home or in the mosque, synagogues, churches and so on."

Some say Muslims must pray in the street because they need a larger mosque. But Lepante has observed cars coming from other parts of Paris, and he believes it is a weekly display of growing Muslim power. 

"They are coming there to show that they can take over some French streets to show that they can conquer a part of the French territory," he said."

""The problem of Islam is more than a problem of numbers," said French philosopher Radu Stoenescu, an Islamic expert who debates Muslim leaders on French TV. "The problem is one of principles. It's an open question. Is Islam an ideology or just a creed?"

"It doesn't matter how many there are," he aded. "The problem is the people who follow Islam; they're somehow in a political party, which has a political agenda, which means basically implementing Sharia and building an Islamic state."
...

'Islamization' of Paris a Warning to the West - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com


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## Tom Clancy (Sep 3, 2010)

While I'm tolerant of Muslims, Islamation is darn well happening in Europe.


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## hipeter924 (Sep 3, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> *This is what's in store for America if we don't stand up for ourselves:*
> 
> "His camera shows that Muslims "are blocking the streets with barriers. They are praying on the ground. And the inhabitants of this district cannot leave their homes, nor go into their homes during those prayers."
> 
> ...


The sad fact is that the political elite (socialists in particular) refuse to admit reality that most Muslims immigrating hate western culture, see it as decadent and evil and want to change society to suit them, not the other way round. It's an ugly wake up call for them and it will only get worse, its like the Nazi movement really (a movement that is rising again at the same time as Islam is rising in Europe).


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## SmarterThanHick (Sep 4, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> This is what's in store for America if we don't stand up for ourselves



Oh yes, I can see the problem.  You know what we should do to stand up for ourselves?  Get really scared.  Let's fear other religions.  That will help.

Oh and while we're at it, let's make suggestions that repeal the right for others to peacefully practice their religion, while looking the other way about the double standard and unwanted impingement of our religions onto society.

But since policy is such a hard thing to change, let's just start with being scared.


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## syrenn (Sep 4, 2010)

And still no one sees...


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

They pray in the streets because there are no mosques to accomodate them?

And?


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## hjmick (Sep 4, 2010)

Is it "Islamification" or "Islamization?" I think prefer "Ilsamification."

I mean I prefer the word, not the act...


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

SmarterThanHick said:


> AllieBaba said:
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> > This is what's in store for America if we don't stand up for ourselves
> ...



You can be scared, it sounds as if you are already.

I don't think recognizing a threat is the same as being scared, unless you feel compelled to cave to that threat. Again, that sounds like something you might like to do.


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> They pray in the streets because there are no mosques to accomodate them?
> 
> And?



No, they don't.
They pray in the streets in order to stop traffic and disrupt Paris and intimidate Parisians while they're at it.

BTW, public displays of religion in Paris are illegal.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Sep 4, 2010)

France is finished , the indigenous birth rate is to low for them to recover.
I was hoping  the art would come to the USA  but it looks like its  all going to Dubai where it will eventually be burned.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

SmarterThanHick said:


> AllieBaba said:
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> > This is what's in store for America if we don't stand up for ourselves
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Peaceful? Forcing non Muslims to stay out of their homes, burning cars, erecting blockades, blocking whole neighborhoods off from the rest of the city? That is your idea of peaceful? Demanding Sharia law that does things like stone adulterers, stone people who have sex outside wedlock? This is YOUR idea of peaceful?


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> They pray in the streets because there are no mosques to accomodate them?
> 
> And?



You did not bother to read it did you? They go to NON Muslim neighborhoods and blockade the whole neighborhood. They come from all over the city to do it. There is little evidence that their mosques are not big enough. Further, if that were true, make bigger ones.

You people are absolutely stupid.


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## fyrenza (Sep 4, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> This i
> 
> blah, blah, blah{/QUOTE]
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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

What I value about being an American is the freedom.  I take it you Islamophobes want that freedom denied to Muslims here?  Seems to me you guys represent as big a threat to my way of life as any that could come from immigrants.


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## California Girl (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> They pray in the streets because there are no mosques to accomodate them?
> 
> And?



With respect, Maddie, I suggest you actually find out what is going on in Paris before asking asinine questions. 

The point is that they have mosques, and they are welcome to build more if they need them. They are choosing to close down whole neighborhoods - in areas that are not predominantly Muslim - in a deliberate and calculated attempt to intimidate Parisians. They have an agenda in this... and it is not about building more Mosques.


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## California Girl (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> What I value about being an American is the freedom.  I take it you Islamophobes want that freedom denied to Muslims here?  Seems to me you guys represent as big a threat to my way of life as any that could come from immigrants.



To accuse anyone who sees issues with what is happening in Europe of being 'Islamophobes' is simplistic and actually pretty fucking stupid.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

I realize there is a culture clash going on in Europe, CG.  But what exactly is it that folks here who are anxious about Muslims should do?  Should we alter our immigration law, and stop permitting Muslims to move here?  Should we amend the First Amendment, and add "except for Muslims"?

How do we "prevent it from happening here" without doing to ourselves the very thing we fear most -- losing our cultural identity as a free people?


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> I realize there is a culture clash going on in Europe, CG.  But what exactly is it that folks here who are anxious about Muslims should do?  Should we alter our immigration law, and stop permitting Muslims to move here?  Should we amend the First Amendment, and add "except for Muslims"?
> 
> How do we "prevent it from happening here" without doing to ourselves the very thing we fear most -- losing our cultural identity as a free people?



Islam is the problem. The 1st Amendment is NOT a death pact. We SHOULD refuse immigration of any more Muslims, PERIOD. We should remove from the list of religions Islam. It advocates murder, it advocates oppression, it advocates taking over the Government.

The 1st Amendment does not protect supposed religions that violate the law. Or maybe you can link me to one of those religions that uses human sacrifice protected by the 1st Amendment?


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> This is what's in store for America if we don't stand up for ourselves:
> 
> "His camera shows that Muslims "are blocking the streets with barriers. They are praying on the ground. And the inhabitants of this district cannot leave their homes, nor go into their homes during those prayers."
> 
> ...





Crappy source, let's see some corroborating evidence.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> AllieBaba said:
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> > This is what's in store for America if we don't stand up for ourselves:
> ...



Find your own damn link. Just cause you do not like a source does not make you qualified to demand anything.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> xotoxi said:
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Tell that to Allie.  

See my post that you quoted...I've changed it.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi has a point, RetiredGySgt.  Be nice to see some reporting about this by a major news source that has no religious affiliation.


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey xotoxi - there are hundreds of videos on youtube if you really want to see what's going on.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA0kkhTkZoI]YouTube - Muslims in paris admit agenda[/ame]


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> xotoxi has a point, RetiredGySgt.  Be nice to see some reporting about this by a major news source that has no religious affiliation.



And it is not in their MO to do so. Remember that when all the MUSLIM youths were torching THOUSANDS of cars in Paris all the main stream press reported was some "youths" were angry at the cops.


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## Skull Pilot (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> I realize there is a culture clash going on in Europe, CG.  But what exactly is it that folks here who are anxious about Muslims should do?  Should we alter our immigration law, and stop permitting Muslims to move here?  Should we amend the First Amendment, and add "except for Muslims"?
> 
> How do we "prevent it from happening here" without doing to ourselves the very thing we fear most -- losing our cultural identity as a free people?



You're ignoring, quite conveniently I might add, that people blocking streets and buildings and hiring private security guards to intimidate people with an absolute right to enter or leave their homes or do business are not merely practicing their religion but in fact are violating the rights of other citizens.

It's not the practice of religion that is the problem, it's the deliberate violation of the rights of others that is the problem.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> xotoxi has a point, RetiredGySgt.  Be nice to see some reporting about this by a major news source that has no religious affiliation.



And, if Allie is going to call out others for using biased sources without linking to the MSM, then she is obliged to do the same.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> Hey xotoxi - there are hundreds of videos on youtube if you really want to see what's going on.
> 
> YouTube - Muslims in paris admit agenda



He doesn't want anything EXCEPT to divert attention and muddy the waters. Same as all the Muslim apologists on this board.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi has a point, RetiredGySgt.  Be nice to see some reporting about this by a major news source that has no religious affiliation.
> ...



Chanel already answered your attempt at diversion.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > I realize there is a culture clash going on in Europe, CG.  But what exactly is it that folks here who are anxious about Muslims should do?  Should we alter our immigration law, and stop permitting Muslims to move here?  Should we amend the First Amendment, and add "except for Muslims"?
> ...



RetiredGySgt, ain't this a slippery slope?  How can we justify declaring "Islam is not a religion" (nevermind that the Muslims here would still have freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, etc.) when even the Westboro Baptist Church qualifies as one?

As to immigration:  I'd favor ending immigation for anyone who "advocates murder, advocates oppression, advocates taking over the government".  But I'd rather see this enforced on a case by case basis.  To close the borders to anyone at all who is Muslim seems unamerican to me.

After all, Kalam often seems like the most reasonable guy on here.  How can we deny access to people just because they worship differently from (some of) us?


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> xotoxi said:
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> > Madeline said:
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I'm not diverting anything.  In fact, I couldn't give an ounce of shit what is happening in Paris or what the muslims are doing.

I just wanted to point out Allie's blatant hypocrisy and to see unbiased sources.

YouTube is not an unbiased source.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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We can do so because the RELIGION TEACHES its followers to murder, to take over to treat non Muslims as 2nd and 3rd class citizens. The RELIGION DEMANDS that only Allah can rule only Islam can be the Government and only Sharia law is supreme. It demands its followers work up the base from which to push these changes on every Country they move to.

You can see it in action in Canada, France and Great Britain. You can see it in Sweden as well. The Netherlands as I recall has already taken this step, they no longer allow Muslims to immigrate into the Netherlands due to the outrages acts of its followers inside the Country.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


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Keep on diverting. You are a useful idiot for the Muslims.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > I realize there is a culture clash going on in Europe, CG.  But what exactly is it that folks here who are anxious about Muslims should do?  Should we alter our immigration law, and stop permitting Muslims to move here?  Should we amend the First Amendment, and add "except for Muslims"?
> ...



So why aren't the French cops arresting people, if they are breaking the law?


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

Ha ha. And the NYT is? Didn't the head of BBC just admit their leftist agenda. I'll take video and first hand knowledge by someone like CG who have seen it over the MSM anyday.

Ignore at your own peril. Creeping sharia is not a bumper sticker.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Madeline said:
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How can you make such claims, RetiredGySgt?  There is no Chief Iman In Charge.  There are clearly different sects of Muslims.  How can you attribute fault to all 1.5 Billion Muslims on Planet Earth?

Don't you think mebbe some of these problems arise because people are emigrating from very primitive cultures into First World nations?


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## Skull Pilot (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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Good question.  The fact that the French cops and their leaders are to afraid to confront Muslims does not negate the fact that those Muslims are violating the rights of other private citizens does it?


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## California Girl (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> xotoxi has a point, RetiredGySgt.  Be nice to see some reporting about this by a major news source that has no religious affiliation.



Do you speak French? Because there are perfectly reasonable sources if you do. But it is not an international story.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


> Madeline said:
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No, of course not.  But the solution ain't to prevent people from practicing their faith.  It's to arrest lawbreakers.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

California Girl said:


> Madeline said:
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> > xotoxi has a point, RetiredGySgt.  Be nice to see some reporting about this by a major news source that has no religious affiliation.
> ...



RetiredGySgt claims this is also happening in Canada.  Chanel claims you yourself have seen it in the UK.  So?  Where are the Telegraph stories about it, CG?


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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So arresting 2 thousand Muslims for invading a neighborhood and denying its residents their rights fixes what? How about you admit it is the RELIGION that is the problem. 

Ohh and there are 2 major sects and couple very minor ones. Both of the major ones agree with what I have said, a couple of the minor ones are willing to wait for birth rates to take over. Most are not.


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## Skull Pilot (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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No one is trying to stop anyone from practicing their faith.  The zealots who are practicing their faith are the ones causing the problem for everyone else.

I can't answer why the french cops are too scared to do their jobs but it is clear to me that the Muslims are deliberately disrupting the lives of others not the converse.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> California Girl said:
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I did not say this exact thing was happening. I said Islam is working to take over in those countries. In Canada they enacted Sharia law, as well as in Great Britain. In Sweden in Stockholm parts of the city are so dangerous non Muslims can not go there and expect to get out alive. The cops don't even go there anymore.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

California Girl said:


> Madeline said:
> 
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> > xotoxi has a point, RetiredGySgt.  Be nice to see some reporting about this by a major news source that has no religious affiliation.
> ...



I just went to France24.com, which is supposed to be a news source for France.  I searched for "muslim street prayer" and there were no stories.

And a google search only reveals sources of questionable legitimacy.

I have a concern that the sources being cited in this thread are actually propaganda being used as legitimate and credible news.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I did not say this exact thing was happening. I said Islam is working to take over in those countries. In Canada they enacted Sharia law, as well as in Great Britain. In Sweden in Stockholm parts of the city are so dangerous non Muslims can not go there and expect to get out alive. The cops don't even go there anymore.



Sources.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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> 
> > I did not say this exact thing was happening. I said Islam is working to take over in those countries. In Canada they enacted Sharia law, as well as in Great Britain. In Sweden in Stockholm parts of the city are so dangerous non Muslims can not go there and expect to get out alive. The cops don't even go there anymore.
> ...



You want a source to prove that Sharia law exists in Canada and Great Britain? As for Sweden that was old news they do not even report it anymore.

If you were actually the almost impartial person you claim to be you would not be making such ignorant attempts to divert.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


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I'm only trying to divert this thread TOWARDS impartiality.

So far, everything that has been presented as "evidence" in this thread is propaganda.  Anyone that would deny this is a complete fool.


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## California Girl (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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Try not to be stupid, Mad. The french are not seeking to prevent muslims from practicing their faith. SOME Muslims (note, some not all) are forcing the issue for their own agenda.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> Hey xotoxi - there are hundreds of videos on youtube if you really want to see what's going on.
> 
> YouTube - Muslims in paris admit agenda




I watched the first few minutes of this very long video.

I saw thousands of people sitting peacefully in the street.  The only violence that I saw was from the security guard...and I'm not sure if he was really being violent or just manhandling.

I saw no evidence to support or refute that these people were given permission to pray here or that this happens daily or if this is a special occasion.

If there was something that I missed, or something that was said that would support your side, please give me the time on the video and I will take a look.


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

Here's an AP story that claims some Parisians are fed up and planned a "Sausage and Booze" festival to protest. They were denied the permit.  Surprise, surprise.



> By PIERRE-YVES ROGER
> updated 6/15/2010 2:33:42 PM ET
> 
> PARIS  French police have banned a street party whose organizers planned to serve alcoholic cocktails and pork sausages in a heavily Muslim neighborhood of Paris, authorities said in a statement Tuesday.
> ...



Paris police ban pork party in Muslim area - World news - Europe - msnbc.com

Of course, the story gives more sympathy to the poor Muslims who are short on mosques.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

Xotoxi is ACTUALLY claiming that with out a story he does not believe that Canada has authorized Sharia law in some cases as well as England.

I guess besides never going to work he never watches the news either.


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

xoxtoxi - It is illegal to block the sidewalks.  It is illegal in France to pray outside.  It is intimidating to some, and annoying to others to have to cross the street for 2 1/2 hours every week.  It is bullshit.  Stop apologizing.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Xotoxi is ACTUALLY claiming that with out a story he does not believe that Canada has authorized Sharia law in some cases as well as England.
> 
> I guess besides never going to work he never watches the news either.



Do you want me to just take your word for it?  

If the stories are so plentiful in the news, then it should be painfully easy to back up your statements.

It's not my job to find support for your comments.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> xoxtoxi - It is illegal to block the sidewalks.  It is illegal in France to pray outside.  It is intimidating to some, and annoying to others to have to cross the street for 2 1/2 hours every week.  It is bullshit.  Stop apologizing.



He will now demand a link to French law. Notice how he is so good at diverting? But we are to believe he is impartial.


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## RetiredGySgt (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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> > Xotoxi is ACTUALLY claiming that with out a story he does not believe that Canada has authorized Sharia law in some cases as well as England.
> ...



It is not my job to educate the moronic or trolls.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> Here's an AP story that claims some Parisians are fed up and planned a "Sausage and Booze" festival to protest. They were denied the permit.  Surprise, surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The reason for banning the Sausage and Pork party is clearly stated in the article.



> The Paris mayor said the party had been taken over by extreme-right groups seeking confrontation with Muslims.
> 
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> The mayor's office noted that the Algerian team plays England at the  World Cup Friday, which could create conditions for more violence at the  Paris party because many French Muslims are of Algerian descent, and  many youths take to the streets during Algerian soccer matches.
> ...



However, I will give you credit for citing a legitimate source


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


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But it _IS_ your job to back up your statements...otherwise, they are just opinions.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> xoxtoxi - It is illegal to block the sidewalks.  It is illegal in France to pray outside.  It is intimidating to some, and annoying to others to have to cross the street for 2 1/2 hours every week.  It is bullshit.  Stop apologizing.



I'm not apologizing.

If it is illegal, why aren't the French police arresting people?


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow.  If it's not reported in the NYT, it must not be true?  That's one of the silliest things I've heard in a long time.

For a long time, Americans didn't care about what's going on in Europe.  Now they do.  The MSM would prefer to bury any truth about the radicalization in other parts of the world.  They want to control the conversation, and are subsequently making themselves irrelevant.  Thank goodness for the internet.


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> > xoxtoxi - It is illegal to block the sidewalks.  It is illegal in France to pray outside.  It is intimidating to some, and annoying to others to have to cross the street for 2 1/2 hours every week.  It is bullshit.  Stop apologizing.
> ...



Because they look the other way.  I could give you a source that says as much, but it might not fit your "unbiased" standard.  I believe it.  Police look the other way right here in the U.S. as well.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> Wow.  If it's not reported in the NYT, it must not be true?  That's one of the silliest things I've heard in a long time.



Did I say anything about the NYT?

My only point for entering this thread was to point out that Allie's source from CBN.com was just as biased as Modbert's source from Talk2Action.org (see http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-attending-christian-concert.html#post2634003).  In that thread, she demanded other sources.

As I have clearly stated, I have no opinion on muslims praying in streets in France or French pork and beer parties.  My only goal is to point of the hypocrisy of Alliebaba.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


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Okay.  That's too bad that they look the other way.  They shouldn't do that.

And I don't demand that you provide support...because you always do...and you provide credible sources.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Madeline said:
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WTF did Canada "enact Sharia law"?  BTW, WTF _is_ "Sharia law"?


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

Here's my confusion. Even if we accept that they are peacefully protesting the "lack of mosques" who do they want to build them? The government? In the words of the great Judge Judy "If it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't true"

Maybe if they all worked during those 2 1/2 hrs a day, they could raise the money themselves. Ya think?


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> xotoxi said:
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Whoa, miss.  What are you claiming here?  That there are American neighborhoods the cops are afraid to enter?  Or that there are some that are Muslim and that is why the cops are afraid?

I live in Cleveland, chanel.  Yes, there are sectors that don't get patrolled well and yes, there are reasonable fears among some cops here.  But there is no part of this city "the cops are afraid to enter".


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> Here's my confusion. Even if we accept that they are peacefully protesting the "lack of mosques" who do they want to build them? The government? In the words of the great Judge Judy "If it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't true"
> 
> Maybe if they all worked during those 2 1/2 hrs a day, they could raise the money themselves. Ya think?



I know of this guy in New York that really, really wants to build a muslim community center...


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## SmarterThanHick (Sep 4, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> I don't think recognizing a threat is the same as being scared, unless you feel compelled to cave to that threat. Again, that sounds like something you might like to do.



The "threat"?  What threat is that?  I look outside my door and I see no threat.  Do you?  But hey, I'm not just worried about what's in my backyard, let's ask around to see if anyone else in this country sees the threat of prayer in their streets.  Anyone else see this threat when they look outside?

Didn't think so.



RetiredGySgt said:


> Peaceful? Forcing non Muslims to stay out of their homes, burning cars, erecting blockades, blocking whole neighborhoods off from the rest of the city? That is your idea of peaceful? Demanding Sharia law that does things like stone adulterers, stone people who have sex outside wedlock? This is YOUR idea of peaceful?


This is not what the article was discussing.  Nice misdirection though.



RetiredGySgt said:


> We SHOULD refuse immigration of any more Muslims, PERIOD. We should remove from the list of religions Islam. It advocates murder, it advocates oppression, it advocates taking over the Government.


And you advocate ignorance, racism, and the inability to understand a culture based on a small percentage of fanatics.  

You flippant prideful American who has no problem turning his back on the founding principles of this country at the first opportune moment.  How pitiful.  Meanwhile, we have a rather good justice system that clearly defines legal and illegal actions, and can easily act against criminals regardless of numbers.  You don't want the great laws of this nation to apply to everyone equally, you want some special privileges.  Until you're willing to make the same changes regarding your religion, you're in no place to point fingers or change laws for other religions, my dear hick.


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

But the question is "With whose money?".  Oops - was that Islamophobic? 

And Maddie - lucky you.  There are many neighborhoods in NJ and surrounding areas that the cops are afraid to go into.  And there are simply things they choose to ignore like crack houses and prostitution.  Maybe it's money and lack of resources.  That could easily be the case in Paris, but I think it's something a little darker.  Like this perhaps:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecEeJ3Jke8c&feature=related]YouTube - Europe under fire[/ame]


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## SmarterThanHick (Sep 4, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


> It's not the practice of religion that is the problem, it's the deliberate violation of the rights of others that is the problem.


And that's fine.  Are you worried American law enforcement can't deal with basic rights violations so much that we need to attack a religious source?  Because I'm rather confidence in our officers, soldiers, and judges.  




RetiredGySgt said:


> So arresting 2 thousand Muslims for invading a neighborhood and denying its residents their rights fixes what? How about you admit it is the RELIGION that is the problem.



2000 is 0.0001% of all Muslims, my racist friend.  But sure, let's punish the whole classroom, no.... the entire school,  because two students threw spitballs.  

Perhaps the most interesting and ironic thing about your post, is that you are no better than the <0.0001% of Muslims you hate.  You respond to the idea that someone wants other religions eradicated by wanting to eradicate THEIR religion.  You are no better than the ones you hate.  I wonder if your white robes and pointed hood still fit you after all these years.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


> But the question is "With whose money?".  Oops - was that Islamophobic?
> 
> And Maddie - lucky you.  There are many neighborhoods in NJ and surrounding areas that the cops are afraid to go into.  And there are simply things they choose to ignore like crack houses and prostitution.  Maybe it's money and lack of resources.  That could easily be the case in Paris, but I think it's something a little darker.  Like this perhaps:
> 
> YouTube - Europe under fire



I can believe there are NJ crackhouses the cops know about and don't hassle.  I have no doubt there are Cleveland ones, too.  I don't think they are Muslim operations, or that entire neighborhoods in NJ have been abandoned by the cops.

I dunno why French cops won't arrest loiterers or rioters or WTF it is these people are doing that is illegal there.  It isn't a problem I foresee having here.


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## Skull Pilot (Sep 4, 2010)

SmarterThanHick said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > It's not the practice of religion that is the problem, it's the deliberate violation of the rights of others that is the problem.
> ...



I have no faith that our government will protect our rights when Muslims need to be confronted.


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

No - I'm not talking about Muslim drug dealers and whores. I meant that cops look the other way in many ghettos. Ghettos in France seem to be predominantly Muslim.

What is different here in the US is assimilation. In Canada and Europe they push "multi-culturalism" which breeds segregation and distrust. We need to learn from their mistakes, but it seems many here want to repeat them.


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## California Girl (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Xotoxi is ACTUALLY claiming that with out a story he does not believe that Canada has authorized Sharia law in some cases as well as England.
> ...



Revealed: UK&rsquo;s first official sharia courts -Times Online

From the article: ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network&#8217;s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

Alright, I have read the whole article.  The parties have to agree to use a sharia court, and the rulings are enforcable as a form of binding arbitration.  So far, no biggie.  Any two people in a dispute could agree to almost any adult as an arbitrator and the resulting ruling would be binding in the US (presumably in the UK too).

What knocked me for a loop was the type of cases they are handling.  How can any alternative dispute resolution process handle a criminal matter?  How can matters of inheritance be decided outside a Probate Court?  (In the US, these courts have exclusive jurisdiction in most/all states; the parties could resolve a will contest by agreement, but they could not litigate one elsewhere.)

And divorces?  What if there are children?  How do UK courts countenance giving up jurisdiction over minors in a divorce?

The article compares these courts to what I assume are Rabbincal Courts.  I don't know all that much about Jewish law or what sorts of things they handle.  There are Canonical Law courts in the RCC as well, but I have never heard of anyone using them (apart from clergy) for anything other than an annulment...a purely RCC matter anyway.

It's hard to believe no one in the UK will step up and call a halt to this craziness.


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## hipeter924 (Sep 4, 2010)

California Girl said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Don't deny the existence of the British Caliphate, we can't have double standards here. We must recognize the British Caliphate immediately, just as we recognized Israel and Kosovo. After Blair the UK aren't reliable allies anymore (they have all their plans out to leave Iraq and Afghanistan), and if anything Labour is filled with Islamic radicals and antisemitic filth like George Galloway, virtually all its EU seats are taken by UK Fascists in the British National Party, and its socialist economy has been failing ever since ww1.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

WTF is a Caliphate?


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## hipeter924 (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> WTF is a Caliphate?


Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term *caliphate* (from the Arabic  &#1582;&#1604;&#1575;&#1601;&#1577; or khil&#257;fa) refers to the first system of governance established  in Islam. The most common translation for the word which appears in the  Quran is vicegerency (or caretaker). *It is a constitutional republic,  which means that the rulers are bound by a set of laws which they cannot  break at a whim, and the people have the right to appoint their leader  through their local leaders and should the leaders divert from their  obligations as vicegerents, the people have the right to remove them.
 It was initially led by Prophet Muhammad's companions as a continuation of the political authority the Prophet established, known in Arabic as Khulufaa'u Rashidin or English 'Rashidun Caliphate (Rightly Guided Caliphate)'. It represented the political and theological unity of the Muslim Ummah, and was the world's first major welfare state.[1][2] A "caliphate" is also a state which implements such a government.*
Sunni Islam dictates that the head of state, the caliph, should be selected by Shura - elected by Muslims or their representatives.[3] Followers of Shia Islam believe the caliph should be an imam descended in a line from the Ahl al-Bayt. After the Rashidun  period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and  illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first dynasty was the Umayyad. This was followed by the Abbasid, the Fatimid, and finally the Ottoman Dynasty.
 The caliphate was "the core political concept of Sunni Islam, by the consensus of the Muslim majority in the early centuries."[4]


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



Because when they fuck with the Muslims, they BURN things.

"Policing: A lot of these "ghetto" suburbs lack security and policing. Gangs, running the suburbs, have slowly pushed out police presence. In Seine-Saint-Denis, security personnel have fallen from 468 in 2000 to 205 now, according to Le Monde."

Paris Riots in Perspective - ABC News

"In escalating unrest, shots were fired at police and firefighters, while gangs besieged a police station, set fire to a car showroom and threw petrol bombs. 

At least 15 people were arrested and nine injured across north-east Paris."

"Dalil Boubakeur, the head of the Paris mosque and the president of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, said living conditions for Muslim immigrants in the suburbs were unacceptable. 

They "must be *given* the conditions to live with dignity as human beings", not in "disgraceful squats". 

BBC NEWS | Europe | Fresh violence hits Paris suburbs


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

Surely Europeans have some experience with rioters other than Muslims, Allie.  We certainly do here in the US.  I don't see police abandoning the duty to enforce the law as a solution.


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## Mr. H. (Sep 4, 2010)




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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

hipeter924 said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > WTF is a Caliphate?
> ...



Where are you going with this, hipeter?  Are you suggesting that 1.5 Billion Muslims believe they have a duty to overthrow the secular government of any country they reside in and replace it with a theocracy?

I'm having trouble swallowing that.


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

Not all Maddie. Just about 15 million of them.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

California Girl said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Thank you, California Girl.

I wonder what the Queen said about that?


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Surely Europeans have some experience with rioters other than Muslims, Allie.  We certainly do here in the US.  I don't see police abandoning the duty to enforce the law as a solution.



No, the rioting problem in Paris is a MUSLIM one, Madeline. Read the material.
"October-November 2005: Beginning on October 25th, largely immigrant communities in north-east Paris are hit by riots after two male youths of North African origin were electrocuted in an electricity substation in the Parisian suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois."

"November 2007: Following the deaths of two teenagers whose motorcycles collided with police in the Paris suburb of Villiers-le-Bel, a second bout of civil rest enflamed many Muslim and immigrant Parisian youth. The families of the two youths killed in the encounter on November 26, 2007 say that the police intentionally rammed their motorcycle, fatally killing the two boys. Police however, deny this, saying that the vehicle was stolen, being driven at high speeds, and that the two teenagers were not equipped with protective headgear. Immediately after the incident, violent riots and clashes took place in and around Villiers-le-Bel; over 70 cars were burned, in addition to several shops, a library, two schools, and a police station."

Islam in Paris : Euro-Islam: News and Analysis on Islam in Europe and North America


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



Then you think they lie about what they intend?


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## Mr.Fitnah (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...



The problem with sharia courts is   that they operate inside the closed community  and if the woman does not agree to sharia judgement  she faces ostracization  from her limited support group in a country where she likely does not speak the language.
Sharia  and Islam are decidedly misogynistic .


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## Mr.Fitnah (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



Islam Question and Answer - Judging by that which Allaah has revealed
Islam Question and Answer - Judging by that which Allaah has revealed
Islam Question and Answer - Should he turn to the human rights organizations to get his rights?
Islam Question and Answer - Should he turn to the human rights organizations to get his rights?
Islam Question and Answer - The kufr of one who rules according to other than what Allaah revealed
Islam Question and Answer - The kufr of one who rules according to other than what Allaah revealed

Allaah has commanded us to refer matters to His judgement and to establish Shareeah, and He has forbidden us to rule with anything else, as is clear from a number of aayaat in the Quraan, such as the aayaat in Soorat al-Maaidah (5) which discuss ruling according to what Allaah has revealed, and mention the following topics:

The command to rule according to what Allaah has revealed: And so judge between them by what Allaah has revealed . . . [aayah 49]

Warning against ruling by other than what Allaah has revealed: . . . and follow not their vain desires . . . [aayah 49]

Warning against compromising on any detail of Shareeah, no matter how small: . . . but beware of them lest they turn you far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you . . . [aayah 49]

Forbidding seeking the ruling of jaahiliyyah, as is expressed in the rhetorical question Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? [aayah 50]

The statement that nobody is better than Allaah to judge: . . . and who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith? [aayah 50]

The statement that whoever does not judge according to what Allaah revealed is a kaafir, a zaalim (oppressor or wrongdoer) and a faasiq (sinner), as Allaah says: . . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon. [aayah 44]; . . . And whoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, such are the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) [aayah 45]; . . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed (then) such (people) are the faasiqoon (rebellious or disobedient). [aayah 47].

The statement that it is obligatory for the Muslims to judge according to what Allaah has revealed, even if those who seek their judgement are not Muslim, as Allaah says: . . . And if you judge, judge with justice between them. . . [aayah 42]


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## California Girl (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



I suspect that the French media is a tad reluctant to cover it in any depth.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Sep 4, 2010)

California Girl said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



The video is pretty clear.


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## 007 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yup... those PEACEFUL muslims... all they want to do is PRAY... they're so PEACEFUL and PROUD and of their BASTARD religion that they have COVER THEIR COWARDLY FACES...


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

So, Pale, what makes you think Islam is anything but peaceful?

Really, you Islamaphobe.
;P


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## 007 (Sep 4, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> So, Pale, what makes you think Islam is anything but peaceful?
> 
> Really, you Islamaphobe.
> ;P



Gee I don't know Allie... might have something to do with all the *BLOOD AND DEATH* of so many innocent people on their hands.


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## California Girl (Sep 4, 2010)

xotoxi said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...



The Queen doesn't comment on such issues.


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > hipeter924 said:
> ...



Thankies for the quotes, Mr. Fitnah.  I have no doubt someone (not me, I'm too lazy) could cobble together a whole bunch of sayings from the Bible to support a political POV.

It does not answer my question.

What is it you think immigrant Muslims in First World countries are up to?


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## Madeline (Sep 4, 2010)

California Girl said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



What about the PM?  Supreme Court?


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kczkDnMgboU&feature=related]YouTube - What Will Happen When Islam Takes Over Britain WAKE UP![/ame]


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...






> The Archbishop of Canterbury came under fierce attack last night from the Government, his own Church and other religions after he advocated the adoption of parts of Sharia, or Islamic law, in Britain.
> 
> Leaders of all the main political parties made clear that they did not accept Dr Rowan Williamss assertion that the incorporation of some aspects of Sharia was unavoidable.
> 
> ...



Archbishop of Canterbury argues for Islamic law in Britain -Times Online


Madeline - check out the "creeping sharia" thread.  There are USMB posters that are advocating the same.  It's not just a bumper sticker.
Despite the "fierce attacks", Sharia Courts are operating in Britain, as CG posted.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...


Copulating and pushing  for plural marriage.


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbz1MEW9s-4&feature=related]YouTube - Islamic Radicalisation in U.K. - CNN documentary[/ame]


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## AllieBaba (Sep 4, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_vR5moPjJ0&feature=related]YouTube - March For Shariah in London[/ame]


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## syrenn (Sep 4, 2010)

And still no one sees.


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## xotoxi (Sep 4, 2010)

California Girl said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, California Girl.
> ...



She's such a pussy!


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)




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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)




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## syrenn (Sep 4, 2010)

chanel said:


>




Now this is where it goes to far. If that is a real NJ ID, then our laws say you must have a face pic for identification. If you don't want your face on a license...guess what...you don't get one. 

And a 6'3 woman??? how do you know it isnt a MAN!


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## chanel (Sep 4, 2010)

I think it's photoshopped.  But there was a case not long ago here in NJ where the woman sued to wear her hijab.  I believe she lost.


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## hipeter924 (Sep 4, 2010)

Madeline said:


> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...


No I am suggesting that most of those 1.5 billion Muslims believe they have a duty to overthrow peacefully through the political process or through violence the secular government of any country they reside in and replace it with a system that treats Muslims as superior to everyone else (that can be a minor expression of that i.e. change in cultural norms to an extreme superior in law expression of that). 

Not all Muslims believe that of course, and those Muslims are Secular Muslims and most of them live under theocracies right now and are trying to overthrow their theocratic regimes such as with the people of Iran.


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## Jos (Sep 4, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> Yup... those PEACEFUL muslims... all they want to do is PRAY... they're so PEACEFUL and PROUD and of their BASTARD religion that they have COVER THEIR COWARDLY FACES...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mr. H. (Sep 4, 2010)

The letter G is finished with a sylized J, for Jihad.


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## California Girl (Sep 5, 2010)

Madeline said:


> They pray in the streets because there are no mosques to accomodate them?
> 
> And?



It took a while, but I eventually found what *I think* is one of the sources for this story. It's quite a long clip and when the videographer speaks to the Imam, they speak in French, and they speak very quickly - however, there are subtitles at the top of the clip. Also, I've listened to it a few times and (and my French is adequate - not fluent) but the translation seems correct. 

On the clip.... and again, you need to go over half way through it to get to the crux of the clip... The videographer asks why they are there - is it because they need a bigger mosque . The Imam responds very clearly 'no, we are extending our Mosque out on to the streets.' or words to that effect. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA0kkhTkZoI&feature=related]YouTube - Muslims in paris admit agenda[/ame]

So, Maddie.... This is:

1. Not about Muslims not getting permission to build more mosques or extending their mosques.

2. Public prayer is illegal in France. They are breaking the law by their protest.

3. They did not have the permits required for a protest in Paris.

4. They did not have the right to stop people accessing the street, yet they did stop people. 

5. They had no right to try to stop the videographer from filming yet they forced him off the street they had taken over. 

6. They were distrupting the right of other Parisians to go about their everyday lives.

While it is fine to defend the freedom of Muslims in the west.... Muslims, like everyone else, are subject to the law of the land. 

The reason why the French media, and media generally around the world, are not reporting it is for political reasons. Not because it isn't happening, but they are afraid to talk about it.


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## SmarterThanHick (Sep 5, 2010)

Your numbered points appear accurate.  What is erroneous is the people who extend those points to believe somehow America is in distress from those actions, or that our law enforcement will idly sit by and allow similar law breaking to happen here.  This is foolishness.


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## AllieBaba (Sep 5, 2010)

Jos said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Yup... those PEACEFUL muslims... all they want to do is PRAY... they're so PEACEFUL and PROUD and of their BASTARD religion that they have COVER THEIR COWARDLY FACES...
> ...


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## AllieBaba (Sep 5, 2010)

SmarterThanHick said:


> Your numbered points appear accurate.  What is erroneous is the people who extend those points to believe somehow America is in distress from those actions, or that our law enforcement will idly sit by and allow similar law breaking to happen here.  This is foolishness.



You're foolish. In America public displays of religion aren't illegal. They are in France. 

In France, the police have pulled out of entire sections of the city. People who steal cars stash them in these sections, because they know the cops won't go there. They have pulled out because they don't have the manpower to police them, and because they are targeted when they enter those areas. 

They are muslim neighborhoods.


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## California Girl (Sep 5, 2010)

SmarterThanHick said:


> Your numbered points appear accurate.  What is erroneous is the people who extend those points to believe somehow America is in distress from those actions, or that our law enforcement will idly sit by and allow similar law breaking to happen here.  This is foolishness.



Let's hope you're right. But can I just say.... the French police are not generally known for being scared to tackle tough issues. They can kick ass with the best of police forces. It is as much political pressure than keeps them from enforcing French law. Let me ask you this, if we have a Democrat in the White House, can you see the political will to take on this kind of issue when it crosses the pond? Because it will cross.... and while I am perfectly happy for Muslims to be part of American society, I'm damned if I think we should make any allowances for Sharia law in the US. It is fundamentally against everything we are as a nation.


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## SmarterThanHick (Sep 5, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> > Your numbered points appear accurate.  What is erroneous is the people who extend those points to believe somehow America is in distress from those actions, or that our law enforcement will idly sit by and allow similar law breaking to happen here.  This is foolishness.
> ...


Are you illiterate or did you purposefully decide to misconstrue the point I just made?  You are right in saying public displays of religion aren't illegal in America.  That's why I specifically stated that I doubt "our law enforcement will idly sit by and allow similar law breaking to happen".  I did NOT say "the same actions".  The focus is clearly on the law breaking, which is why I used the term, LAW BREAKING.  





California Girl said:


> Let's hope you're right. But can I just say.... the French police are not generally known for being scared to tackle tough issues. They can kick ass with the best of police forces. It is as much political pressure than keeps them from enforcing French law. Let me ask you this, if we have a Democrat in the White House, can you see the political will to take on this kind of issue when it crosses the pond? Because it will cross.... and while I am perfectly happy for Muslims to be part of American society, I'm damned if I think we should make any allowances for Sharia law in the US. It is fundamentally against everything we are as a nation.



First off, I think it's silly to think of this as an "allowances for Sharia law" issue, so much as your underlying point of: this is America, and we are not compromising our laws and values for ANYBODY.  I think it's safe to say you'd agree with me on that one.  But I don't think the topic would have much to do with who we have in the white house.  I know this board tends to see no one outside Washington at times, but what do you think would happen if these events occurred in Texas?  New York City?  The president could be a marshmallow on a stick for all I care, and I'm quite confident that the issue would be addressed appropriately by law enforcement.


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## Munin (Sep 25, 2010)

It s more like an immigrant rebellion. Also a lot of muslims that live in Europe are frustrated because: 

1) Unemployed, because businesses don't want radical muslims (f.e. muslim women who only want to work if they can wear a headscarf) to work in their companies. Some of those muslims aren't even considering themselves radical as they see the headscarf and ... as a tradition of their home country. 

2) Live in neighborhoods that have been neglected, because that is the kind of neighbourhoud where new poor immigrants come to live. Thats why rioting has broken out many times.

3) They feel discriminated because of their religious culture being so different from Western Culture, as a result they turn to their religion becoming even more radical and this then leads to even more discrimination. And it has to be said: there is a lot of discrimination in Europe because of the negative image their is around muslims. Especially since the terror muslim attacks muslims have become marginalized by in a lot of societies. But the same can be said about the US, see what happened duringthe last presidential elections at a mccain rally  ("http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YIq5Q15L1o"). It is in fact because radical muslims have marginalized all muslims around the world, especially the ones that are living in Western countries. Police units of many western countries have also been radicalized towards muslims because they have to deal a lot with them (the reason being that muslims belong to the poorest part of western society), this then leads to clashes with muslim youth (who commit crimes like vandalism because they are unemployed and become bored) and the Western police forces.


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