# 100,000 Venezuelans cross border shopping for scarce food



## bripat9643

The rats are fleeing the sinking ship.  It's unfortunate that only the well off have anything to purchase goods in Colombia.  The Venezuelan Bolivar is worthless.

The Associated Press​
_Almost 100,000 Venezuelans, some of whom drove through the night in caravans, crossed into Colombia over the weekend to hunt for food and medicine that are in short supply at home.

It was the second weekend in a row that Venezuela’s socialist government opened the long-closed border with Colombia, and by 6 a.m. Sunday, a line of would-be shoppers snaked through the entire town of San Antonio del Tachira. Some had traveled in chartered buses from cities 10 hours away.

Venezuela’s government closed all crossings a year ago to crack down on smuggling along the 1,378-mile (2,219 kilometer) border. It complained that speculators were causing shortages by buying up subsidized food and gasoline in Venezuela and taking them to Colombia, where they could be sold for far higher prices. But shortages have continued to mount in Venezuela amid triple-digit inflation, currency controls that have restricted imports and investment and the world oil price slump that caused a collapse in the oil revenues that fund government spending. …_​


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## Clementine

Oh, the joys of socialism.


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## skye

Clementine said:


> Oh, the joys of socialism.




Second that.^^^


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## Moonglow

Shortages have occurred under all forms of governments.............


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## Kat

skye said:


> Clementine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the joys of socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second that.^^^
Click to expand...



3rd it.


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## Tehon

Poor management of the monetary system does not equate to socialism.


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## Norman

Tehon said:


> Poor management of the monetary system does not equate to socialism.



Crazy price controls and micro management of the economy do.

And actually, sure the monetary system is a socialist failure as well.


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## owebo

Tehon said:


> Poor management of the monetary system does not equate to socialism.


No, but socialism does....like in Venezuela.....


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## Rexx Taylor

well I sure hope that everyone in Columbia keep their pets at home while the venezuelans go shopping.


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## tyroneweaver

Moonglow said:


> Shortages have occurred under all forms of governments.............


really, so lets have the resident genius obama  nationalize the farms and see if starvation comes to America. Which it would
The US is one of only a half dozen nations  that produces more food than it uses.
But dems could change that with their creepy politics.


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## Ridgerunner

Hold on... I am quite sure Sean Penn is formulating a plan to save his second home...


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## Theowl32

Don't worry. Rich elitists left wing 1 percenters who have convinced morons here that they are against one percenters don't care.

Oprah's house




She does not have kids. I think she has some boyfriend, and some "girlfriend" named Gail.
Guarded by armed guards.


Matt Damons house





Armed by armed guards. He protests against one percenters too.

Sean Penn's house in Malibu.






Armed by armed guards, and certainly loves the idea of the old feudal system that we all call socialism today.

Barbara Streisands house. Well, one of them.




No kids, no husband (I think she drinks James Brolin's fathers sperm though) and she called Americans "over consumptive." It costs around $20,000.00 a month to just water her grass in one of the massive mansions. She is against the "one percenters" too.

The Jane Fonda estate (ranch)











Cause the free market American system sure has been bad for her.......


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## bripat9643

Moonglow said:


> Shortages have occurred under all forms of governments.............


Wrong.   They only occur under command economies. Name one market economy that has ever had a shortage of anything unless the government was controlling the price.


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## Toro

This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.

What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed. 

These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start. 

But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else. 

Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again. 

Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.


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## Ridgerunner

Proof positive of the virtues of socialism...

The richest woman in Venezuela is Hugo Chavez's daughter


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## Theowl32

Ridgerunner said:


> Proof positive of the virtues of socialism...
> 
> The richest woman in Venezuela is Hugo Chavez's daughter


Rich elite left wingers are truly the worst people on earth. They are the reason for everything that is wrong, and that includes the rise of all tyrants (including isis.)


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## Ridgerunner

Theowl32 said:


> Rich elite left wingers are truly the worst people on earth. They are the reason for everything that is wrong, and that includes the rise of all tyrants (including isis.)



Follow the money...


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## Theowl32

Ridgerunner said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rich elite left wingers are truly the worst people on earth. They are the reason for everything that is wrong, and that includes the rise of all tyrants (including isis.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the money...
Click to expand...

Follow the hypocrites with money.


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## Moonglow

bripat9643 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shortages have occurred under all forms of governments.............
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.   They only occur under command economies. Name one market economy that has ever had a shortage of anything unless the government was controlling the price.
Click to expand...

England... Ireland, tariffs are a way of a govt. trying to control prices...When the English went to a free market system in the later 1800's they had a 19 year recession..Look what free trade has done to the US economy....Do you enjoy your NAFTA?


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## Tehon

Toro said:


> This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.
> 
> What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed.
> 
> These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start.
> 
> But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again.
> 
> Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.


The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.

Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.


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## Siete

straighten that shit up right now.. give top 1%rs a friggin set of tax cuts.


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## Rexx Taylor

i wonder how much a 20/24 oz box of hot pockets go for in these times of desperation(just have to worry about what kind of meat is in there)


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## Theowl32

Rexx Taylor said:


> i wonder how much a 20/24 oz box of hot pockets go for in these times of desperation(just have to worry about what kind of meat is in there)



Fries at McDonalds would cost you $126

A Large McDonald’s Fries Will Cost You This Much in Venezuela

Not to worry though. The left think the poor should be eating like them anyway. Meaning, no low cost junk food.

They think the poor should be eating at Panera Bread or places like this.
Christopher's Kitchen.






Yes, pinky raising, wine sipping, poetry reading place for the left wing elite is VEGETARIAN.
LOL, just read the menu. The high priced menu.

Do you know the stupid elite left wing morons think the poor (that they care so much for lol) think they ought to be eating at high priced vegetarian places.....

Just like them.

So, the cost of a cheeseburger in Venezuela is of no concern to them.






Doesn't concern Glover at all. Does it?


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## Rexx Taylor

Theowl32 said:


> Rexx Taylor said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wonder how much a 20/24 oz box of hot pockets go for in these times of desperation(just have to worry about what kind of meat is in there)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fries at McDonalds would cost you $126
> 
> A Large McDonald’s Fries Will Cost You This Much in Venezuela
> 
> Not to worry though. The left think the poor should be eating like them anyway. Meaning, no low cost junk food.
> 
> They think the poor should be eating at Panera Bread or places like this.
> Christopher's Kitchen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, pinky raising, wine sipping, poetry reading place for the left wing elite is VEGETARIAN.
> LOL, just read the menu. The high priced menu.
> 
> Do you know the stupid elite left wing morons think the poor (that they care so much for lol) think they ought to be eating at high priced vegetarian places.....
> 
> Just like them.
> 
> So, the cost of a cheeseburger in Venezuela is of no concern to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't concern Glover at all. Does it?
Click to expand...

but what kind of meat do they use? Horse? Pidgeon? Goat? Horse? Human?


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## Zander

Venezuela, like Cuba, is a workers paradise!! 

Be sure to bring your own Toilet Paper!


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## bripat9643

Tehon said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.
> 
> What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed.
> 
> These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start.
> 
> But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again.
> 
> Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.
> 
> 
> 
> The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.
> 
> Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.
Click to expand...


Creating money out of thin air is always the cause of inflation.  All governments do this, because it's so easy to fund government boondoggles when you don't need the permission of the taxpayers, but a couple of economic ignoramuses like Chavez and Maduro don't know the downside of such policies.


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## bripat9643

Moonglow said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shortages have occurred under all forms of governments.............
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.   They only occur under command economies. Name one market economy that has ever had a shortage of anything unless the government was controlling the price.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> England... Ireland, tariffs are a way of a govt. trying to control prices...When the English went to a free market system in the later 1800's they had a 19 year recession..Look what free trade has done to the US economy....Do you enjoy your NAFTA?
Click to expand...


Tariffs are not government price controls.  They are taxes.   I have no idea what you mean by "free market system.  England had been gradually moving in that direction for a couple of centuries.  So what is the demarcation of this "free market system" you refer to?

According to Wikipedia:

_Long Depression 1873-96 Deflation but no reduction in real GDP Panic of 1873 World-wide, but Britain hit worst and longest. Previously known as the "Great Depression". Agricultural deflation hit farmers and their workers, although industrial output continued to grow_.​
This isn't a depression.  It's the normal state of things during an industrial revolution.  Agricultural prices continue to slide as worker productivity increases.    How can you have a depression when GDP is expanding?   That's what invariably happens as society becomes more industrialized.


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## Rexx Taylor

i have always wondered what happened to the hot dog stands in venezuela, what have they been serving this year? very large/fat cockroaches on a bun?


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## BluesLegend

Siete said:


> straighten that shit up right now.. give top 1%rs a friggin set of tax cuts.



Hey cut my taxes excellent idea, why should I have to pay the bills of a bunch of fat lazy do nothing moochers.


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## Rexx Taylor

i have always wondered what species of animal raced to Columbia once they found out that they ate all of the dogs and cats. Squirrles?


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## Windship

skye said:


> Clementine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the joys of socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second that.^^^
Click to expand...


lol, and your both unbelievably stupid...you think thats socialism? No wonder. Lol


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## Theowl32

Windship said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clementine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the joys of socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second that.^^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol, and your both unbelievably stupid...you think thats socialism? No wonder. Lol
Click to expand...

What do Sean Penn, Danny Glover, Harry Belafonte think it is? 

What do you think it is?


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## Rexx Taylor

if things were to get any worse in venz. i am pretty sure that when someone drops dead in the streets, the living ones will fight to the death over the corpse.


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## bripat9643

Windship said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clementine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the joys of socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second that.^^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol, and your both unbelievably stupid...you think thats socialism? No wonder. Lol
Click to expand...


It's "you're" not "your," dumbass.  it's also "that's" instead of "thats."

Two grammatical errors in 13 words, and I haven't even started on your punctuation and capitalization. 

Pretty fucking sad.


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## Rexx Taylor

i have always wondered what a "ManBurger" tasted like, with onions/mushrooms/mayo/tomatoes, medium rare, and french fries made from 100% dirt. (well,being they have no potatoes left there}


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## Kat

Rexx Taylor said:


> i have always wondered what a "ManBurger" tasted like, with onions/mushrooms/mayo/tomatoes, medium rare, and french fries made from 100% dirt. (well,being they have no potatoes left there}





Medium rare?? Ugh. No can do medium rare. I don't like bloody buns. (sorry)


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## owebo

Siete said:


> straighten that shit up right now.. give top 1%rs a friggin set of tax cuts.


Just give them their stuff back.....perhaps they will open the doors again and start employing people......


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## ScienceRocks

I want a bigger private sector
Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
I want more wealth being in the hands of more people
I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
I want more rich people

Yet I am a commie, lol


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## owebo

Matthew said:


> I want a bigger private sector
> Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
> I want more wealth being in the ends of more people
> I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
> I want more rich people
> 
> Yet I am a commie, lol


You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....


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## ScienceRocks

owebo said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want a bigger private sector
> Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
> I want more wealth being in the ends of more people
> I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
> I want more rich people
> 
> Yet I am a commie, lol
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
Click to expand...


Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't. 

If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.


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## owebo

Matthew said:


> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want a bigger private sector
> Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
> I want more wealth being in the ends of more people
> I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
> I want more rich people
> 
> Yet I am a commie, lol
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't.
> 
> If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.
Click to expand...

What we decide is fair is fine....

What you decide is fair is not....

Never mind....commie....


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## ScienceRocks

owebo said:


> Siete said:
> 
> 
> 
> straighten that shit up right now.. give top 1%rs a friggin set of tax cuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just give them their stuff back.....perhaps they will open the doors again and start employing people......
Click to expand...


Success shouldn't be punished but they should pay for the resources they use. Venezuela is just crazy and wanted to punish 90% of its society.

You have no case to compare.


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## ScienceRocks

owebo said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want a bigger private sector
> Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
> I want more wealth being in the ends of more people
> I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
> I want more rich people
> 
> Yet I am a commie, lol
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't.
> 
> If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What we decide is fair is fine....
> 
> What you decide is fair is not....
> 
> Never mind....commie....
Click to expand...


Name the nation that doesn't have any government regulations, laws, investment or anything. It isn't pretty.  Your belief system is based on nothing.


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## owebo

Matthew said:


> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want a bigger private sector
> Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
> I want more wealth being in the ends of more people
> I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
> I want more rich people
> 
> Yet I am a commie, lol
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't.
> 
> If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What we decide is fair is fine....
> 
> What you decide is fair is not....
> 
> Never mind....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name the nation that doesn't have any government regulations, laws, investment or anything. It isn't pretty.  Your belief system is based on nothing.
Click to expand...

It's a liberty thing.....you wouldn't understand, commie......


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## ScienceRocks

owebo said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want a bigger private sector
> Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
> I want more wealth being in the ends of more people
> I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
> I want more rich people
> 
> Yet I am a commie, lol
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't.
> 
> If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What we decide is fair is fine....
> 
> What you decide is fair is not....
> 
> Never mind....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name the nation that doesn't have any government regulations, laws, investment or anything. It isn't pretty.  Your belief system is based on nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a liberty thing.....you wouldn't understand, commie......
Click to expand...

Lol

Your idea of liberty is one where the super rich can do what ever the fuck they want. You wouldn't understand human rights or basic economics. Anti-government freak!


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## owebo

Matthew said:


> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't.
> 
> If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What we decide is fair is fine....
> 
> What you decide is fair is not....
> 
> Never mind....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name the nation that doesn't have any government regulations, laws, investment or anything. It isn't pretty.  Your belief system is based on nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a liberty thing.....you wouldn't understand, commie......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol
> 
> Your idea of liberty is one where the super rich can do what ever the fuck they want. You wouldn't understand human rights or basic economics. Anti-government freak!
Click to expand...

I want people to be able to do what they want....not what you want, commie...


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## bripat9643

Matthew said:


> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want a bigger private sector
> Sure, I want a respectable public sector and public investment, but!
> I want more wealth being in the ends of more people
> I want more science advancement = more products that make big money!
> I want more rich people
> 
> Yet I am a commie, lol
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't.
> 
> If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.
Click to expand...

The U.S. until about the mid thirties didn't have any of that.  Did people die by the thousands because the FDA didn't exist?  Nope.

What are "the resources" you refer to, land and minerals?


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## bripat9643

Matthew said:


> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to take my wealth to make those things happen.....commie....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't.
> 
> If you use the resources, as you do for being in this country = you need to pay taxes. It is fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What we decide is fair is fine....
> 
> What you decide is fair is not....
> 
> Never mind....commie....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name the nation that doesn't have any government regulations, laws, investment or anything. It isn't pretty.  Your belief system is based on nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a liberty thing.....you wouldn't understand, commie......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol
> 
> Your idea of liberty is one where the super rich can do what ever the fuck they want. You wouldn't understand human rights or basic economics. Anti-government freak!
Click to expand...


As long as they don't kill, maim, assault, rob or con anyone, why shouldn't they do whatever they want?  Don't you think you should be able to do the same?


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## ScienceRocks

Yep, respecting human rights, the population having some consumer protections and a basic right not to be shit on by their so called betters is your idea of liberty.

I don't want what you're selling. I'll keep America as it is today.


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## owebo

Matthew said:


> Yep, respecting human rights, the population having some consumer protections and a basic right not to be shit on by their so called betters is your idea of liberty.
> 
> I don't want what you're selling. I'll keep America as it is today.


You pro-life?


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## bripat9643

Matthew said:


> Yep, respecting human rights, the population having some consumer protections and a basic right not to be shit on by their so called betters is your idea of liberty.
> 
> I don't want what you're selling. I'll keep America as it is today.


America is circling the toilet bowl.  The current situation isn't stable.


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## owebo

Matthew said:


> owebo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Siete said:
> 
> 
> 
> straighten that shit up right now.. give top 1%rs a friggin set of tax cuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just give them their stuff back.....perhaps they will open the doors again and start employing people......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Success shouldn't be punished but they should pay for the resources they use. Venezuela is just crazy and wanted to punish 90% of its society.
> 
> You have no case to compare.
Click to expand...

Socialism.....eh commie?


----------



## ScienceRocks

Your entire economic and idea of civilization is a joke. I'll personally shoot my ass into space on a rocket if you ever get your way. 

It isn't something any sane person should ever wish for. 

The idea of having total freedom without government would take the abolishment of civilization and the rules that go with it. To compare some crazy dictator in Venezuela to make your case on why we need to abolish all government is the height of idiocy.


----------



## owebo

Matthew said:


> Your entire economic and idea of civilization is a joke. I'll personally shoot my ass into space on a rocket if you ever get your way.
> 
> It isn't something any sane person should ever wish for.
> 
> The idea of having total freedom without government would take the abolishment of civilization and the rules that go with it. To compare some crazy dictator in Venezuela to make your case on why we need to abolish all government is the height of idiocy.


You won't be able to unless I get my way....


----------



## bripat9643

Matthew said:


> Your entire economic and idea of civilization is a joke. I'll personally shoot my ass into space on a rocket if you ever get your way.
> 
> It isn't something any sane person should ever wish for.
> 
> The idea of having total freedom without government would take the abolishment of civilization and the rules that go with it. To compare some crazy dictator in Venezuela to make your case on why we need to abolish all government is the height of idiocy.



Nope.  Civilization existed prior to government.  The later is a parasite that feeds on civilization.


----------



## Ridgerunner

Matthew said:


> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't




What if I could name 6 hotshot?

     United Arab Emirates

Oman

Bahrain

Qatar

Saudi Arabia

Kuwait

10 Countries With Zero Income Taxes --  The Motley Fool


----------



## Neotrotsky

*100,000 Venezuelans cross border shopping for scarce food*


and Democrats still pretend socialism works


----------



## Tehon

Ridgerunner said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if I could name 6 hotshot?
> 
> United Arab Emirates
> 
> Oman
> 
> Bahrain
> 
> Qatar
> 
> Saudi Arabia
> 
> Kuwait
> 10 Countries With Zero Income Taxes --  The Motley Fool
Click to expand...

I would say move to the Middle East, they are your kind of people.


----------



## Tehon

Neotrotsky said:


> *100,000 Venezuelans cross border shopping for scarce food*
> 
> 
> and Democrats still pretend socialism works


And you still pretend you understand what socialism is.


----------



## bripat9643

Tehon said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> *100,000 Venezuelans cross border shopping for scarce food*
> 
> 
> and Democrats still pretend socialism works
> 
> 
> 
> And you still pretend you understand what socialism is.
Click to expand...

We know what it is, and it's not the fairy story la-la land that left wingers imagine.


----------



## Ridgerunner

What's wrong Tehran? Didn't like the answer?


----------



## Tehon

Ridgerunner said:


> What's wrong Tehran? Didn't like the answer?


It is of no matter to me how those societies organize themselves. I'm more interested in whether or not you will be taking bripat with you when you go to your conservative oasis in the desert.


----------



## Ridgerunner

Tehon said:


> I would say move to the Middle East, they are your kind of people





Tehon said:


> It is of no matter to me how those societies organize themselves. I'm more interested in whether or not you will be taking bripat with you when you go to your conservative oasis in the desert.



Tehran I suggest that you filter your bath water a little better next big drink you get. You have to be intoxicated to think I am going anywhere. You made the suggestion that I move to the Middle east. I think you are hallucinating... I am not going anywhere... Sorry for your luck though...


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Tehon said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.
> 
> What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed.
> 
> These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start.
> 
> But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again.
> 
> Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.
> 
> 
> 
> The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.
> 
> Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.
Click to expand...

Wrong.  On both accounts.  Karl Marx is the father of Communism.  This is what happens when Communist takes over.  Poverty, starvation, destruction......  sad but true.  Communism / socialism is the most brutal form of Government on the face of the earth.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Windship said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clementine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the joys of socialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second that.^^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol, and your both unbelievably stupid...you think thats socialism? No wonder. Lol
Click to expand...

clearly it is communism but it begins with socialism and ends with what you see happening in Venezuela now...


----------



## Ridgerunner

Jeremiah said:


> what you see happening in Venezuela now...


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Ridgerunner said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> what you see happening in Venezuela now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 82509
Click to expand...

Yes, there is 4 stages to communist takeover. Stage 1, Demoralization, Stage 2, Destabilization, Stage 3.... crisis..... America is right now headed into 3rd stage "crisis" ....., Venezuela is already there. 

Stage 4 is Communist Normalization and when that comes - it's too late.

For Christians - there are 3 stages in communist take over - 1st stage, Intimidate them. 2st stage Marginalize them, 3rd stage, Criminalize them.... Stage 1 and 2 could be reversed but stage 3 is stage 3.


----------



## Tehon

Jeremiah said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.
> 
> What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed.
> 
> These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start.
> 
> But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again.
> 
> Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.
> 
> 
> 
> The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.
> 
> Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong.  On both accounts.  Karl Marx is the father of Communism.  This is what happens when Communist takes over.  Poverty, starvation, destruction......  sad but true.  Communism / socialism is the most brutal form of Government on the face of the earth.
Click to expand...

Venezuela has not achieved socialism. Venezuelan leaders are reformist, populist criminals, content to use a mixed economy to loot the country and enrich their friends, which seems more in line with capitalism to me. It most certainly isn't marxist. Chavez even denounced marxism as being outdated and advocated for what he called 21st century socialism (reformism).


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Venezuela Finally Turns Communist: Maduro Follows Leninist Dogma
When Hugo Chávez was running in his first successful presidential campaign, back in 1998, he was asked point blank in several television interviews whether or not he was a communist. His reply was identical to the one given by Fidel Castro to Princeton University students during his visit to the United States in 1959: “I am a humanist.” Years later, on consolidating total power in his own hands, Chávez again emulated Fidel and confessed to being “a convinced follower of Marxist-Leninist ideology.”

During his 14-year rule in Venezuela, Chávez followed a strategy of introducing socialism in stages. The first stage entailed obtaining total control of all institutions of the Venezuelan state. Thus, during the first four years, he concentrated his efforts in changing the Constitution, packing the Supreme Court, installing soviet-style political commissars in army units, and changing the national identity card and the electoral system to ensure his reelection through manipulation of voter-rolls. During this stage, Chávez was not interested in antagonizing the private sector or the business community. He had enough on his plate, and knew he could not tackle all enemies at once.





Source: Mises.ca.

Just as Hitler’s final destruction of the Jewish middle class during _Kristallnacht_ did not occur until five years after his ascension to power in Germany, in Venezuela, Chávez reassured the business community that he was not really interested in their demise. Throughout this period, “_Chavismo_” seemed very similar to Argentina’s “_Peronismo_.”

In September 2001, Chávez began his offensive for the “Second Stage of the Process......
continue reading here:  Venezuela Finally Turns Communist: Maduro Follows Leninist Dogma
_________
Since then this past January there was this report......

In January, when Venezuelans discover that their cheap purchases of government-mandated, reduced-price goods produced the collapse of the private sector, the government will be ready with a Soviet-style rationing system. Already, black market operators are setting up shop in what promises to be a thriving business in Socialism for the 21st Century.

Venezuela has now become the continent’s second communist totalitarian state.

continue reading...
Venezuela Finally Turns Communist: Maduro Follows Leninist Dogma


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Venezuela's Playbook: The Communist Manifesto
This article appeared in the January 2014 issue of Globe Asia.
Venezuela’s downward economic spiral began in earnest when Hugo Chavez imposed his “unique” brand of socialism on Venezuela. For years, the country has sustained a massive social spending program, combined with costly price and labor-market controls, as well as an aggressive foreign aid strategy. This fiscal house of cards has been kept afloat—barely—by oil revenues.

The Venezuelan house of cards has begun to collapse.

But, as the price tag of the regime has grown, the country has dipped more and more into the coffers of its state-owned oil company, PDVSA, and (increasingly) relied on the country’s central bank to fill the fiscal gap. This has resulted in a steady decline in the bolivar’s value — a decline that only accelerated as news of Chavez’s failing health began to emerge.

Hugo Chavez died on March 5, 2013 — sending shockwaves through the Venezuelan economy. Not surprisingly, in the months since his hand-picked successor, Nicolas Maduro, took the reins as Venezuela’s new president, the Venezuelan house of cards has begun to collapse.

The black market exchange rate between the bolivar (VEF) and the U.S. dollar (USD) tells the tale. Indeed, the bolivar has lost 64.5% of its value on the black market since Chavez’s death (see the accompanying chart).






This, in turn, has brought about very high inflation in Venezuela. At present, the implied annual inflation rate is actually in the triple digits, coming in at a whopping 297% (see the accompanying chart).

This rate is over five times higher than the most recent official annual inflation rate of 54% reported by the government and echoed by the international financial press. Indeed, as I read today’s _Financial Times_ (9 December 2013), the figure “54%” stares me in the face. Why? The answer is straightforward: the Venezuelan censors are effective. Perhaps not as effective as the Chinese censors. But, effective nevertheless. The Caracas-based reporters I speak to regularly tell me that the news organizations actually do most of the work themselves — self censorship — to avoid having their reporters in Caracas being given the boot.






The government has responded to its economic woes by imposing ever-tougher price controls to artificially suppress inflation. But, these policies are nothing new. For years, the government has set the price for a number of goods. For example, premium gasoline is fixed at only 5.8 U.S. cents per gallon — that’s cheaper than a gallon of potable water in Caracas.

While these controls ostensibly keep prices _on official markets_ low, they have ultimately led to empty shelves. Indeed, as the accompanying chart shows, approximately 22.4% of goods are simply not available in Venezuelan stores. This index should remind everyone of the Paul McCartney classic, “Back in the USSR.”
___________
Why the reference to the USSR with this proven failure of the socialism experiment?  Karl Marx is the father of Socialism / Communism and the Russian people have suffered because of it for far too long.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Examining Marx's life - he was a Satanist.  The documentation proves this beyond all doubt.  Here is an excerpt from Marx & Satan by Richard Wurmbrand

Marx's Ravaged Life All active Satanists have ravaged personal lives, and this was the case with Marx as well. Arnold Künzli, in his book Karl Marx - A Psychogram, writes about Marx's life, including the suicide of two daughters and a son-in-law Three children died of malnutrition. His daughter Laura, married to the Socialist Lafargue, also buried three of her children; then she and her husband committed suicide together. Another daughter Eleanor, decided with her husband to do likewise. She died; he backed out at the last minute. Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx; in the front Marx’ wife Jenny and her children Laura and Eleanor (1864) Marx felt no obligation to earn a living for his family, though he could easily have done so through his tremendous knowledge of languages. Instead, he lived by begging from Engels. He had an illegitimate child by his maidservant, Helen Demuth. Later 20 he attributed the child to Engels, who accepted this comedy. 

Marx drank heavily. Riazanov, director of the Marx-Engels Institute in Moscow, admits this fact in his book Karl Marx, Mai, Thinker aid Revolutionist. Eleanor was Marx’s favorite daughter. He called her Tussy and frequently said, "Tussy is me." She was shattered when she heard about the scandal of illegitimacy from Engels on his deathbed. It was this that led to her suicide. It should be noted that Marx, in The Communist Mаnifesto, had railed against capitalists "having the wives and daughters of their proletarians at their disposal." 

Such hypocrisy was not out of character for Karl Marx. There was an even darker spot in the life of Marx, the great revolutionary. The German newspaper Reichsruf (January 9, 1960) published the fact that the Austrian chancellor Julius Raab donated to Nikita Khrushchev, then director of Soviet Russia, an original letter of Karl Marx. Khrushchev did not enjoy it, because it was proof that Marx had been a paid informer of the Austrian police, spying on revolutionaries. 

The letter had been found accidentally in a secret archive. It indicated that Marx, as an informer, reported on his comrades during his exile in London. He received $25 for each bit of information he turned up. His notes were about the revolutionary exiles in London, Paris, and Switzerland. One of those against whom he informed was Ruge, who considered himself an intimate friend of Marx. Cordial letters between the two still exist. 

Rolv Heuer describes Marx's ravaged financial life in Genius and Riches: While he was a student in Berlin, the son of papa Marx received 700 thalers a year pocket-money. This was an enormous sum because at that time only 5 percent of the population had an annual income greater than 300 thalers. During his lifetime, Marx received from Engels some six million French francs, according to the Marx Institute. 

Yet he always lusted after inheritances. While an uncle of his was in agony, Marx wrote, "If the dog dies, I would be out of mischief." To which Engels answers, "I congratulate you for the sickness of the hinderer of an inheritance, and I hope that the catastrophe will happen now " 

"The dog" died, and Marx wrote on March 8, 1855, A very happy event. Yesterday we were told about the death of the ninety-year-old uncle of my wife. My wife will receive some one hundred Lst; even more if the old dog has not left a pate of his money to the lady who administered his house. 

He did not have any kinder feelings for those who were much nearer to him than his uncle. He was not even on speaking terms with his mother. In December 1863 he wrote to Engels, 21 Two hours ago a telegram arrived co say that my mother is dead. Fate needed to take one member of the family. I already had one foot in the grave. Under the circumstances I am needed more than the old woman. 

I have to go to Trier about their inheritance. This was all he had to say at his mother's passing. In addition, the relationship between Marx and his wife was demonstrably poor. She abandoned him twice but returned each time. When she died, he did not even attend her funeral. 

Always in need of funds, Marx lost much money at the stock exchange, where he, the great economist, knew only how to lose. Marx was an intellectual of high caliber, as was Engels. But their correspondence is full of obscenities, unusual for their class of society. 

Foul language abounds, and there is not one letter in which one hears an idealist speaking about his humanist or Socialist dream. Since the Satanist sect is highly secret, we have only reports about the possibilities of Marx's connections with it. 

But his disorderly life is undoubtedly another link in the chain of evidence already considered. 22 T H R E E - RUINED FAITH Engels's Counter-Conversion Since Friedrich Engels figures prominently in Marx's life, I will give brief material about him. Engels had been brought up in a pietistic family. In fact, in his youth he had composed beautiful Christian poems. 

After meeting Marx, he wrote about him: Who is chasing wild endeavour? A black man from Trier [Marx's birthplace], a remarkable monster. He does not walk or run, he jumps on his heels and rages full of anger as if he would like to catch the wide tent of the sky and throw it to the earth. He stretches his arms far away in the air; the wicked fist is clenched, he rages without ceasing, as if ten thousand devils had caught him by the hair.

___________
Indeed. That is the real Karl Marx.  Welcome to reality, people. 
http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Lenin too, was a Satanist.......

The Secret Behind Lenin's Life There was a secret behind Lenin's life too. When I wrote the first edition of the present book, I knew of no personal involvement of Lenin with any rituals of the Satanist sect. Since then, I have read The Young Lenin by Trotsky, who was Lenin's intimate friend and co-worker. 

He writes that Lenin, at the age of sixteen, tore the cross from his neck, spat on it, and trod it underfoot, a very common Satanist ceremony. 30 There is not the slightest doubt that Lenin was dominated by Satanist ideology. 

How else could one explain the following quotation from his letter to the Russian writer Maxim Gorki, dated 13-14 November 1913: Millions of sins, mischiefs, oppressions, and physical epidemics, are more easily discovered by the people, and therefore less dangerous, than the thinnest idea of a spiritual little god, even if disguised in the most decorous garb. In the end Satan deceived him, as he does all his followers. Lenin was moved to write as follows about the Soviet state: The state does not function as we desired. How does it function? The car does not obey. A man is at the wheel and seems to lead it, but the car does not drive in the desired direction. It moves as another force wishes. 

What is this other mysterious force which supersedes even the plans of the Bolshevik leaders? Did they sell out to a force which they hoped to master, but which proved more powerful than even they anticipated and drove them to despair? 

In a letter of 1921 Lenin wrote: I hope we will be hanged on a stinking rope. And I did not lose the hope that this would happen, because we cannot condemn dirty bureaucracy. If this happens, it will be well done. This was Lenin's last hope after a whole life of struggle for the Communist cause: to be justly hanged on a stinking rope. This hope was not fulfilled for him, but almost all of his co-workers were eventually executed by Stalin after confessing publicly that they had served other powers than the proletariat they pretended to help. 

What a confession from Lenin: "I hope we will be hanged on a stinking rope." It is interesting to note that at the age of thirteen, Lenin wrote what could be called prophetic poetry foretelling the bankruptcy in which his life would end. He had decided to serve mankind, but without God. These were his words: Sacrificing your life freely for others, It is a pity you will have the sad fate That your sacrifice will be completely fruitless. What a contrast to the words of another fighter, St. Paul the Apostle, who wrote toward the end of his life: I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course... . henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day (2 Timothy 4:7, 8). 31 There exists a "too late" in our spiritual affairs. Esau repented with many tears for having sold his birthright, but the deal could not be undone. And Lenin, founder of the Soviet state, said on his deathbed, I committed a great error. My nightmare is to have the feeling that I'm lost in an ocean of blood from the innumerable victims. It is too late to return. 
________
Lenin's deathbed confession should serve as a serious warning to those who believe they can repent any time they wish of pushing socialism / communism as if it were anything but the death knell for any society which is foolish enough to drink its poison..... You will soon seen that there is a high price to pay for such deception...  Are you guilty of it today?  Then Repent.   You need to come to the Lord when he is calling you and turn from your wickedness.  Do not count on a death bed prayer to see you to heaven after a lifetime of ignoring God's warnings. He sends His servants early to warn that His judgment is coming and it can be avoided through repentance and calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.  

Now this is not to say that God would not save someone on their deathbed but obviously in the case of Lenin -he knew it not to be possible.  It was too late.  Too late.  Too late.
http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf


----------



## Tehon

Are you now using the term satanist as a euphemism for Jew?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

And what would the truth about socialism and communism be without the truth concerning Bukharin, Stalin, Mao, Ceausescu, Ardropov!  Let us examine this at once and be set free by the truth of Richard Wurmbrand's investigation!  
______

- A CRUEL COUNTERFEIT Bukharin, Stalin, Mao, Ceausescu, Andropov It might be instructive at this point to take a look at some modern Marxists. Bukharin, secretary general of the Communist International and one of the chief Marxist doctrinaires in this century, as early as the age of twelve, after reading the Book of Revelation in the Bible, longed to become the Antichrist. 

Realizing from Scripture that the Antichrist had to be the son of the apocalyptic great whore, he insisted that his mother confess to having been a harlot. About Stalin he wrote, "He is not a man, but a devil." 

Too late Bukharin realized into whose hands he had fallen. In a letter which he made his wife memorize just before his arrest and execution, he said: I am leaving life. I am lowering my head.... I feel my helplessness before a hellish machine... ? 

He had helped erect a guillotine - the Soviet state - that had killed millions, only to learn in the end that its design had been made in hell. He had desired to be the Antichrist. He became instead a victim of the Enemy. Similarly, Kaganovitch, Stalin's brother-in-law and closest collaborator, writes about him in his diary (soon to be published): 33 I started to understand how Stalin managed to make himself a god. 

He did not have a single human characteristic... . Even when he exhibited some emotions, they all did not seem to belong to him. They were as false as the scale on top of armor. And behind this scale was Stalin himself-a piece of steel. 

For some reason I was convinced that he would live forever.... He was not human at all... . Rosa [his wife) says he makes her climb a tree wearing nothing but stockings. 

I have a feeling he is not human at all. He is too unusual to be a regular human being. Although he looks like an ordinary man. Such a puzzle. What is it I'm writing? Am I raving mad, too? Stalin described to Kaganovitch his spiritual exercise. Believers of various religions engage in the practice of meditation on what is beautiful, wise, and good, to help them become more loving. 

Stalin indulged in just the opposite practice. He told Kaganovitch: When I have to say good-bye to someone, I picture this person on all fours and he becomes disgusting. Sometimes I feel attached to a person who should be removed for the good of the cause. What do you think I do? I imagine this person shitting, exhaling stench, farting, vomiting - and I don't feel sorry for this person. 

The sooner he stops stinking on this earth, the better. And I cross this person out of my heart. One of Stalin's amusements was to put green glasses on the eyes of horses to make them see hay as grass. Even worse, he put dark glasses of atheism on the eyes of men to keep them from seeing God's pastures, reserved for believing souls. 

The diary contains many revealing insights: Many times Stalin spoke of religion as our most vicious enemy. He hates religion for many reasons, and I share his feelings. Religion is a cunning and dangerous enemy... Stalin also thinks that separation from children should be the main punishment for all parents belonging to sects, irrespective of whether they were convicted or not. 

 I think he secretly engaged in astrology. One peculiar feature of his always astonished me. He always talked with some veiled respect about God and religion. At first, I thought I was imagining it, but gradually I realized it was true. But he was always careful when the subject came up. And I was never able to find out exactly what his point of view was. One thing became very clear to me - his treatment of God and religion was very special. For example, he never said directly there was no God. . . 

 People ceased somehow to be their own selves in his presence. They all admired him and worshiped him. I don't think he enjoyed any great love of the nation: he was above it. It may sound strange, but he occupied a position previously reserved only for God. 

 Part and parcel of the tragedy of human existence is the fact that one has enemies and is sometimes obliged to fight them. Marx took delight in this sad necessity. His 34 favorite saying, which he often repeated, was, "There is nothing more beautiful in the world than to bite one's enemies." 

No wonder his follower Stalin said that the greatest joy is to cultivate a person's friendship until he lays his head confidently on your bosom, then to implant a dagger in his back - a pleasure not to be surpassed. 

Marx had expressed the same idea long before. He wrote to Engels about comrades with whom he disagreed: We must make these rogues believe that we continue our relationship with them, until we have the power to sweep them away from our road, in one manner or another. 

It is significant that many of Stalin's comrades-inarms spoke about him as demonic. Milovan Djilas, prominent Communist leader of Yugoslavia who was personally well acquainted with Stalin, wrote: Was it not so that the demonic power and energy of Stalin consisted in this, that he made the [Communist] movement and every person in it pass to a state of confusion and stupefaction, thus creating and ensuring his reign of fear. 

He also says about the whole ruling class of the U.S.S.R.: They make a semblance of believing in the ideal of socialism, in a future society without classes. In reality, they believe in nothing except organized power. 

Even Stalin's daughter, Svetlana Alliluyeva, who never learned about the depths of Satanism, wrote, Beria (the Soviet minister of interior affairs) seems to have had a diabolic link with all our family.... Beria was a frightening, wicked demon.... A terrible demon had taken possession of my father's soul. 

Svetlana further mentions that Stalin considered goodness and forgiving love to be worse than the greatest crime. Such is the Satanic priesthood that rules almost half of mankind and which orders terrorist acts all over the world. 

Stalin was the illegitimate child of a landlord by a servant-maid. His father, fearing notoriety, bribed a cobbler to marry the pregnant girl, but the affair became known. During his childhood Stalin was mocked as a bastard. During Stalin's teen years, his real father was found murdered. Stalin was suspected, but no proof could be found against him. 

Later, as a seminary student, he joined Communist circles. There he fell in love with a girl named Galina. Since the Communists were poor, Galina was given the assignment to become the mistress of a rich man and so provide the Party with money. When Stalin himself voted for this proposal, she cut her veins. 

 35 Stalin himself committed robberies for the Party, and in this he was very successful. He appropriated none of the stolen money for himself. He was also assigned the duty of infiltrating the Czarist police. He had to play a dual role, denouncing secondary Party members in order to find out police secrets and protect more important Communists. As a young man, therefore, Stalin had the worst possible heredity, education, and development. 

Thus he was easily susceptible to Satanist influence. He became what his name, Stalin, means: a man of steel, without the slightest human emotion or pity. (Andropov, late premier of the Soviets, produced the same impression as Stalin. The French minister of external affairs, Claude Cheysson, who met him, described Andropov in Le Monde as "a man without warmth of soul, who works like a computer.... He shows no emotions.... He is extremely dispassionate.... He is accurate in words and gestures like a computer.") 

Stalin, like Marx, Engels, and Bauer before him, started out as a believer. At fifteen, he wrote his first poem, which begins with the words, "Great is the Almighty's providence." He became a seminarian because he felt it his calling. There he became first a Darwinist, then a Marxist. 

When he began to write as a revolutionary, the first pseudonyms he used were "Demonoshvili," meaning something like "the demoniac" in the Georgian language, and "Besoshvili," "the devilish." 

Other evidences of Satanist persuasion among Marxist leaders are also significant. Troitskaia, daughter of the Soviet marshal Tuhatchevsky, one of the top men of the Red Army who was later shot by Stalin, wrote of her father that he had a picture of Satan in the east corner of his bedroom, where the Orthodox usually put their ikons. 

When a certain Communist in Czechoslovakia was named head of the State Council for Religious Affairs, an institution whose purpose is to spy on believers and persecute them, he took the name "Hruza," which means in Slovak "horror," an appellation used for "devil." 

One of the leaders of a terrorist organization in Argentina took upon himself the nickname "Satanovsky." Anatole France, a renowned French Communist writer, introduced some of the greatest intellectuals of France to communism. At a recent exhibition of demoniac art in Paris, one of the pieces shown was the specific chair used by that Communist writer for presiding over Satanist rituals. 

Its horned armrests and legs were covered with goat's fur. Britain’s center of Satanism is Highgate Cemetery in London, where Karl Marx is buried. Mysterious rites of black magic are celebrated at this tomb. 

It was the place of inspiration for the Highgate Vampire, who attacked several girls in 1970. Hua KuoFeng, director of Red China, also paid it his respects. Ulrike Meinhof, Gudrun Enslin and other German Red terrorists have also been involved in the occult. 36 One of the oldest devil-worshiping sects, the Syrian Yezidi, was written up in a Soviet atheistic magazine, Nauka I Religia (July 1979). 

It is the only religious sect about which the magazine wrote not one word of criticism. Furthermore, Mao Tse-Tung wrote: From the age of eight I hated Confucius. In our village there was a Confucianist temple. With all my heart, I wished only one thing: to destroy it to its very foundations. Is it normal for an eight-year-оld child to wish only the destruction of his own religion? Such thoughts belong to demonic characters. 

At the other extreme is St. Paul of the Cross, who from the age of eight spent three hours in prayer every night. Cult of Violence Engels wrote in Anti-Duhring, "Universal love for men is an absurdity." And in a letter to a friend he said, "We need hate rather than love - at least for now" Che Guevara learned his Marxist lessons well. In his writings he echoes Engels' sentiments: Hate is an element of fight-pitiless hate against the foe, hate that lifts the revolutionist above the natural limitation of man and makes him become an efficient, destructive, cool, calculating, and cold killing machine. 

This is what the Devil wishes to make of men. He has succeeded all too well with many notorious leaders of the human race. In our lifetime we have witnessed more than our share: Hitler, Eichmann, Mengele, Stalin, Mao, Andropov, Pol Pot… 

Marx writes in The Communist Manifesto: The Communists despise making a secret of their opinions and intentions. They openly declare that their aims can be reached only through the violent overthrow of the whole existing social structure. - …There is only one method to shorten the murderous pains of death of the old society, the bloody birth pangs of the new society; only one method to simplify and concentrate them, that is revolutionary terrorism. There have been many revolutions in history. 

Each had an objective. The American revolution, for example, was fought for national independence, the French revolution for democracy. Marx is the only one who formulates as his aim a "permanent revolution," terrorism and bloodshed for revolution's sake. 
http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf
_____________
And now you know where the misery,starvation,torture, wars, collapse of society that socialism / communism brings - comes from.  It comes from Satan himself.  All of these men served Satan...  it is the religion of hell, "Socialism - Communism" ........without it the Europeans would be capable of seeing their way out of the trouble they face, but no Socialism has blinded them and the wolves have now surrounded them......  what a depraved thing it is to brainwash a society to believe that Socialism / Communism is good while Capitolism (which has always proven to be a blessing) is the evil which must be eradicated.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

More testimonies about Communists who were Satanists...... 

Solzhenitsyn reveals in his monumental Gulag Archipelago that the hobby of Yagoda, the Soviet Union's minister of interior affairs, was to undress and, naked, shoot at images of Jesus and the saints. A couple of comrades joined him in this.

Another Satanist ritual practiced in Communist high places! 38 Why should men allegedly representing the proletariat shoot at the image of Jesus, a proletarian, or the virgin Mary, a poor woman? Some Pentecostal Christians recall an incident that took place in Russia during World War II.

One of their preachers had exorcised a devil who threatened, upon leaving the possessed, "I will take revenge." Several years later the Pentecostal preacher who had performed the exorcism was shot for his faith. The officer who executed him said just before pulling the trigger, "Now we are even."

Are Communist officers sometimes possessed by devils? Do they perhaps serve as Satan's instruments of revenge against Christians who seek to overthrow his throne? There is no doubt. In Russia, in Stalin's day, some Communists killed a number of innocents in the cellars of the police.

After their bloody deed, one of the henchmen had second thoughts and went from corpse to corpse, apologizing: "I did not intend to do this. I don't know you. Speak to me, move, forgive me." One of his comrades then killed him. A third was converted and later related the incident.

Russkaia Misl, a Russian-language magazine in France, reported (March 13, 1975) the following from the Soviet Union: D. Profirevitch, in Russia, had a daughter and a son whom he brought up in the faith. Naturally, they had to attend Communist schools.

At the age of twelve the daughter came home and told her parents, "Religion is a capitalist superstition. We are living in new times." She dropped Christianity altogether.

Afterwards she joined the Communist Party and became a member of the Secret Police. This was a terrible bow to her parents. Later the mother was arrested. Under Communist rule no one possesses anything, whether it be children, a wife, or personal liberty. The state can take them away at any time.

After the mother's arrest, the son exhibited great sorrow A year later he hanged himself. D. Profirevitch found this suicide letter: Father, will you judge me? I am a member of the Communist youth organization. I had to sign that I would report everything to the Soviet authorities.

One day the police called me, and Varia, my sister, asked me to sign a denunciation against Mother because as a Christian she is considered a counterrevolutionist. I signed. I am guilty of her imprisonment. Now they have ordered me to spy on you. The consequence will be the same.

Forgive me, Father; I have decided to die. The suicide of the son was followed by the jailing of the father. Priest Zynoviy Kovalyk was arrested by the Bolsheviks in the year 1941 and was confined in the Brygidka jail in Lviv, Ukraine. When the Germans put the Bolsheviks to flight that same year, the people of the city found the priest's blood-stained body nailed to the wall by the arms and legs, as if it were the crucified Lord.

They also found about six thousand massacred prisoners, shot in the nape of the neck, whom 39 the Bolsheviks had piled on top of each other in the cellars and covered over with plaster. Dr. O. Sas-Yavorsky (U.S.A.), after the capture of Lviv by the Germans near the end of June 1941, went searching for his imprisoned father and saw in the jail a priest nailed to a cross. Into his slashed stomach the Communists had placed the body of an unborn baby, taken from the womb of its mother, whose corpse lay on the bloodsoaked floor.

Other eyewitnesses recognized that this was the body of the renowned missionary Father Kovalyk. Generally, to the Communists human life is cheap. Lenin wrote during the civil war, It would be a shame not to shoot men for not obeying the draft and avoiding mobilization.

and more........

The Western press reported on March 10, 1983, that in Zimbabwe three thousand of the Ndebele tribe were killed by the soldiers of the Communist dictator Mugabe. The army had been trained by North Korean instructors. Tribe members were asked to shoot their grown-up sons themselves; if they refused, they were shot along with their sons.

The Devil apes God by promising still waters and green pastures which are not his to give. Therefore he must pretend. And the less he can offer, the more he must pretend. To gain a foothold, he puts on a false front (did you ever wonder about Communist front organizations?) and makes benevolent gestures.

But he delivers only misery, death, and destruction - "awful, complete, universal, and pitiless." The Devil is jealous and becomes enraged at spiritual beauty. It offends him. Since he cannot be beautiful - he lost his primal beauty because of his pride - he does not want anyone else to be.

If it were not for the saints' spiritual beauty, the Devil would not seem so ugly. Therefore he wishes to deface all beauty. This is why Christians in the Romanian Communist prison of Piteshti, as well as other Communist jails, were tortured - not only to betray the secrets of the underground church, but to blaspheme.

Regimes under which such horrors occur again and again, regimes that turn even Christians into murderers and denouncers of innocent victims, can only be abhorred by the children of God. Whoever bids them Godspeed is a partaker in their evil deeds. (2 John 11)

http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Wurmbrand writes,

Satanic Sin I have written that Marxism is Satanic. But is not every sin Satanic by its very nature? I pondered long about this. Then I had a dream one night that clarified my thinking. In my dream I saw a prostitute hooking young men who were just leaving church. I asked her, "Why did you choose this particular place to work?" She replied, "My delight is to lead young men into sin just as they come from worship.

The Greek word for worship in the New Testament is proskune, which means etymologically `to kiss.' The worshiper stepping out of the house of prayer still has the imprint of Jesus' kisses on his mouth. What a satisfaction to defile him just then, to make him wallow in the bed of lasciviousness and then say to him, `You see, Jesus to whom you prayed could not keep you from sin for even five minutes. He is not your Savior. My master is more powerful than He.' " Sexual impurity is a common human sin.

Mephistopheles asks Faust to seduce Gretchen just as she is walking to church with a prayer book in her hand. This is Satanic. To write, read, or view pornography is another common sin. But it is a characteristic of American pornography, which promotes incest, pederasty, and perversion, that it is full of the names of God, Christ, and Mary.

With every obscenity there is a sacred word, with every ugly gesture a heavenly expression, to defile and profane the holy. This is Satanic. To slay the innocent is a very common sin as well. To crucify Jesus, the Son of God, between two thieves in order to suggest guilt by association is Satanic.

To kill political enemies, to make war and stir up revolution - even with mass killings - proves human sinfulness. But the Russian Communists, having killed millions of their enemies, turned their violence against even their friends, including their most illustrious comrades, the chief perpetrators of their revolution. This is the seal of Satanism.

It is revolution not for attaining a goal, but revolution and killing for killing's sake, what Marx called "the permanent revolution."

Of twenty-nine members and candidates in the Central Committee of the Soviet Communists in 1917, the year of the revolution, only four had the good fortune to depart this life before being deprived of it.

One of the four was posthumously declared "an enemy of the revolution." Thirteen were sentenced to death by their own comrades or disappeared. Two were so persecuted by Stalin that they committed suicide.

___________
If Stalin persecuted his own comrades to the point of driving them to suicide what would ever lead Putin's comrades to expect a different outcome?
http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Tehon said:


> Are you now using the term satanist as a euphemism for Jew?



Are you now suggesting that _all _Communists are Jews?!


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

After Marx had read The Origin of Species by Charles Darwin, he wrote a letter to Lassalle in which he exults that God - in the natural sciences at least - had been given "the death blow.” What idea, then, preempted all others in Marx’s mind? Was it the plight of the poor proletariat? If so, of what possible value was Darwin's theory?

The only tenable conclusion is that Marx s chief aim was the destruction of religion.

The good of the workers was only a pretense. Where proletarians do not fight for Socialist ideals, Marxists will exploit racial differences or the so-called generation gap. The main thing is, religion must be destroyed. Marx believed in hell.

And his program, the driving force in his life, was to send men to hell. Robin Goodfellow Marx wrote, In the signs that bewilder the middle class, the aristocracy, aid the prophets of regression, we recognize our brave friend, Robin Goodfellow, the old mole that can work in the earth so fast-the revolution Scholars who have read this apparently never looked into the identity of this Robin Goodfellow, Marx’s brave friend, the worker for revolution.

The sixteenth-century evangelist William Tyndale used Robin Goodfellow as a name for the Devil.

Shakespeare in his Midsummer Night's Dream called him "the knavish spirit that misleads nightwanderers, laughing at their harm."

Thus, according to Marx, considered the father of communism, a demon was the author of the Communist revolution and was his personal friend.
http://www.hourofthetime.com/1-LF/Hour_Of_The_Time_08122012-Marx_and_Satan.pdf
_______
I hope that people will take the time to read the entire book by Richard Wurmbrand.  The Communists despised this book more than any other because Wurmbrand exposed the truth about who Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin and other Communist leaders were - they were Satanists.  Even by Marx own admission,admits a demon was the author of the Communist revolution and his "personal friend."  The occult is real.  Look at the evil it has produced in our society thus far!  Isn't it time to turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ and seek Him with all of our hearts?  Yes, it is.  If the wicked do not repent, they will be destroyed.


----------



## Tehon

Jeremiah said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you now using the term satanist as a euphemism for Jew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you now suggesting that _all _Communists are Jews?!
Click to expand...

I don't believe god's chosen people are all communists, nor do I believe all communists are god's chosen people. Though I can understand why god's chosen would want to undermine all other religions and can see the connection.


----------



## RodISHI

tyroneweaver said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shortages have occurred under all forms of governments.............
> 
> 
> 
> really, so lets have the resident genius obama  nationalize the farms and see if starvation comes to America. Which it would
> The US is one of only a half dozen nations  that produces more food than it uses.
> But dems could change that with their creepy politics.
Click to expand...

The way things have gone for the last fifty years that has been happening as family farms were gobbled up by banks and corporations. The banks and corps then lobbied for more subsidies and the chemical and seed companies capitalized on that. So the government assisted in the downfall of many privately own farms. That would have been pretty hard for me to see when we lived in Idaho but living here in the midwest I have gotten a better view of what they went through in the 70's through the 80's (a lot of fraud involved in all that). That same systematic take out looks like it is in full swing in the west from what I have been reading.


----------



## RodISHI

Ridgerunner said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Name a nation that doesn't have taxes to pay for the roads, police, military, clean air, water and food standards, invest in science, r&d, etc. You can't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if I could name 6 hotshot?
> 
> United Arab Emirates
> 
> Oman
> 
> Bahrain
> 
> Qatar
> 
> Saudi Arabia
> 
> Kuwait
> 10 Countries With Zero Income Taxes --  The Motley Fool
Click to expand...

Some of the most oppressive money regimes in the world that keep a world of shit stirred among the poorer ME nations through deceptive religious rhetoric. The sad thing is the old GOP and the Clinton Democrats appear to want that same shit here in the U.S. and for the whole world for they can be the ruling class. Oklahoma and Texas are looking like prime examples of an oppressive police state where they can even empty out pre paid cards of the poor via a simple traffic stop.


----------



## RodISHI

Tehon said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.
> 
> What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed.
> 
> These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start.
> 
> But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again.
> 
> Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.
> 
> 
> 
> The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.
> 
> Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong.  On both accounts.  Karl Marx is the father of Communism.  This is what happens when Communist takes over.  Poverty, starvation, destruction......  sad but true.  Communism / socialism is the most brutal form of Government on the face of the earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Venezuela has not achieved socialism. Venezuelan leaders are reformist, populist criminals, content to use a mixed economy to loot the country and enrich their friends, which seems more in line with capitalism to me. It most certainly isn't marxist. Chavez even denounced marxism as being outdated and advocated for what he called 21st century socialism (reformism).
Click to expand...

Those who call themselves capitalist who oppress free markets via legislation to force their products onto the public are not truly capitalist.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Tehon said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you now using the term satanist as a euphemism for Jew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you now suggesting that _all _Communists are Jews?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe god's chosen people are all communists, nor do I believe all communists are god's chosen people. Though I can understand why god's chosen would want to undermine all other religions and can see the connection.
Click to expand...


If you believe the Jews are God's chosen people why did you falsely accuse Israel of crimes?  Why did you lie about the ICJ being unable to act - implying some reason for failure to act against Israel?  Did you not realize the cases ICJ heard were available on Google and that Picaro would find and use those cases to expose your attempts to lie and deceive the readers?

And now here you are again attempting to portray yourself as honoring God's chosen people  again not realizing that I already saw the evidence just yesterday of your anti-semitism on Picaro's diologue w/ you on USMB.  You see your lies have caught up with you and now your credibility has been lost.


----------



## Tehon

RodISHI said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.
> 
> What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed.
> 
> These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start.
> 
> But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again.
> 
> Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.
> 
> 
> 
> The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.
> 
> Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong.  On both accounts.  Karl Marx is the father of Communism.  This is what happens when Communist takes over.  Poverty, starvation, destruction......  sad but true.  Communism / socialism is the most brutal form of Government on the face of the earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Venezuela has not achieved socialism. Venezuelan leaders are reformist, populist criminals, content to use a mixed economy to loot the country and enrich their friends, which seems more in line with capitalism to me. It most certainly isn't marxist. Chavez even denounced marxism as being outdated and advocated for what he called 21st century socialism (reformism).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who call themselves capitalist who oppress free markets via legislation to force their products onto the public are not truly capitalist.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that, I believe it is the very nature of capitalism to seek ever expanding profits by whatever means is at the capitalist's disposal. Crony capitalism is a meaningless term used to disguise the true nature of capitalism. Truly free markets, if such a thing were to exist, would descend into tyranny via monopolization.


----------



## Tehon

Jeremiah said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you now using the term satanist as a euphemism for Jew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you now suggesting that _all _Communists are Jews?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe god's chosen people are all communists, nor do I believe all communists are god's chosen people. Though I can understand why god's chosen would want to undermine all other religions and can see the connection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you believe the Jews are God's chosen people why did you falsely accuse Israel of crimes?  Why did you lie about the ICJ being unable to act - implying some reason for failure to act against Israel?  Did you not realize the cases ICJ heard were available on Google and that Picaro would find and use those cases to expose your attempts to lie and deceive the readers?
> 
> And now here you are again attempting to portray yourself as honoring God's chosen people  again not realizing that I already saw the evidence just yesterday of your anti-semitism on Picaro's diologue w/ you on USMB.  You see your lies have caught up with you and now your credibility has been lost.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the Jews are god's chosen people, I was being facetious.


----------



## RodISHI

Tehon said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't because of poor management of the monetary system, or that there are shortages in all economies.
> 
> What's going on in Venezuela is because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Chavez and Maduro governments.  There were shortages before the price of oil collapsed.
> 
> These two idiots were grossly ignorant on how an economy runs.  There are so many examples in Venezuela, it's hard to know where to start.
> 
> But ultimately, they tried to set prices to benefit the poor and wound up creating shortages everywhere.  And rather than blame their own gross incompetence, they blamed capitalists, America, speculators, and pretty much everyone else.
> 
> Socialists and communists who don't understand how the price system works are ultimately bound to fail, as they have over and over and over again.
> 
> Marx said that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.  Venezuela is about as farcical as it gets, since this has happened several times in Latin America before.  It's doubly farcical since Chavez effectively was following Marxist principles.
> 
> 
> 
> The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.
> 
> Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong.  On both accounts.  Karl Marx is the father of Communism.  This is what happens when Communist takes over.  Poverty, starvation, destruction......  sad but true.  Communism / socialism is the most brutal form of Government on the face of the earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Venezuela has not achieved socialism. Venezuelan leaders are reformist, populist criminals, content to use a mixed economy to loot the country and enrich their friends, which seems more in line with capitalism to me. It most certainly isn't marxist. Chavez even denounced marxism as being outdated and advocated for what he called 21st century socialism (reformism).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who call themselves capitalist who oppress free markets via legislation to force their products onto the public are not truly capitalist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe that, I believe it is the very nature of capitalism to seek ever expanding profits by whatever means is at the capitalist's disposal. Crony capitalism is a meaningless term used to disguise the true nature of capitalism. Truly free markets, if such a thing were to exist, would descend into tyranny via monopolization.
Click to expand...

That was why monopoly laws were on the books. Can't tell you where those are at today because I do not know if they kept them in place or did away with them through more legislation. I have no doubt when they repealed the Glass Steagall Act and convinced a lot of people to invest their retirement funds with unscrupulous investment bankers that opened the door for a lot of the mess we are seeing today in the USA.


----------



## Ridgerunner

toodles Tehran...


----------



## Tehon

RodISHI said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The two idiots instituted price controls in response to rising inflation in an effort to help the poor. That and the devaluation of the bolivar due to the controls on foreign exchange and the labyrinth of exchange rates which created a black market. Either way you look at it, poor monetary policies appear to be the culprit.
> 
> Neither of the idiots was/are Marxist.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  On both accounts.  Karl Marx is the father of Communism.  This is what happens when Communist takes over.  Poverty, starvation, destruction......  sad but true.  Communism / socialism is the most brutal form of Government on the face of the earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Venezuela has not achieved socialism. Venezuelan leaders are reformist, populist criminals, content to use a mixed economy to loot the country and enrich their friends, which seems more in line with capitalism to me. It most certainly isn't marxist. Chavez even denounced marxism as being outdated and advocated for what he called 21st century socialism (reformism).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who call themselves capitalist who oppress free markets via legislation to force their products onto the public are not truly capitalist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe that, I believe it is the very nature of capitalism to seek ever expanding profits by whatever means is at the capitalist's disposal. Crony capitalism is a meaningless term used to disguise the true nature of capitalism. Truly free markets, if such a thing were to exist, would descend into tyranny via monopolization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was why monopoly laws were on the books. Can't tell you where those are at today because I do not know if they kept them in place or did away with them through more legislation. I have no doubt when they repealed the Glass Steagall Act and convinced a lot of people to invest their retirement funds with unscrupulous investment bankers that opened the door for a lot of the mess we are seeing today in the USA.
Click to expand...

40+ years of neoliberal entrenchment in our government has effectively neutered antitrust.


----------



## RodISHI

Tehon said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  On both accounts.  Karl Marx is the father of Communism.  This is what happens when Communist takes over.  Poverty, starvation, destruction......  sad but true.  Communism / socialism is the most brutal form of Government on the face of the earth.
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuela has not achieved socialism. Venezuelan leaders are reformist, populist criminals, content to use a mixed economy to loot the country and enrich their friends, which seems more in line with capitalism to me. It most certainly isn't marxist. Chavez even denounced marxism as being outdated and advocated for what he called 21st century socialism (reformism).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who call themselves capitalist who oppress free markets via legislation to force their products onto the public are not truly capitalist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe that, I believe it is the very nature of capitalism to seek ever expanding profits by whatever means is at the capitalist's disposal. Crony capitalism is a meaningless term used to disguise the true nature of capitalism. Truly free markets, if such a thing were to exist, would descend into tyranny via monopolization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was why monopoly laws were on the books. Can't tell you where those are at today because I do not know if they kept them in place or did away with them through more legislation. I have no doubt when they repealed the Glass Steagall Act and convinced a lot of people to invest their retirement funds with unscrupulous investment bankers that opened the door for a lot of the mess we are seeing today in the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 40+ years of neoliberal entrenchment in our government has effectively neutered antitrust.
Click to expand...

That an neocons. It is two sides of a coin. It is that away across the globe as you get these factions that believe that they are above the laws and not really criminals when in fact they are criminals against both humanity and God.


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## Tehon

RodISHI said:


> Tehon said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
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> Venezuela has not achieved socialism. Venezuelan leaders are reformist, populist criminals, content to use a mixed economy to loot the country and enrich their friends, which seems more in line with capitalism to me. It most certainly isn't marxist. Chavez even denounced marxism as being outdated and advocated for what he called 21st century socialism (reformism).
> 
> 
> 
> Those who call themselves capitalist who oppress free markets via legislation to force their products onto the public are not truly capitalist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe that, I believe it is the very nature of capitalism to seek ever expanding profits by whatever means is at the capitalist's disposal. Crony capitalism is a meaningless term used to disguise the true nature of capitalism. Truly free markets, if such a thing were to exist, would descend into tyranny via monopolization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was why monopoly laws were on the books. Can't tell you where those are at today because I do not know if they kept them in place or did away with them through more legislation. I have no doubt when they repealed the Glass Steagall Act and convinced a lot of people to invest their retirement funds with unscrupulous investment bankers that opened the door for a lot of the mess we are seeing today in the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 40+ years of neoliberal entrenchment in our government has effectively neutered antitrust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That an neocons. It is two sides of a coin. It is that away across the globe as you get these factions that believe that they are above the laws and not really criminals when in fact they are criminals against both humanity and God.
Click to expand...

Kleptocracy is the economic model that has intertwined the once distinct factions.


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## RodISHI

Tehon said:


> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
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> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those who call themselves capitalist who oppress free markets via legislation to force their products onto the public are not truly capitalist.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that, I believe it is the very nature of capitalism to seek ever expanding profits by whatever means is at the capitalist's disposal. Crony capitalism is a meaningless term used to disguise the true nature of capitalism. Truly free markets, if such a thing were to exist, would descend into tyranny via monopolization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was why monopoly laws were on the books. Can't tell you where those are at today because I do not know if they kept them in place or did away with them through more legislation. I have no doubt when they repealed the Glass Steagall Act and convinced a lot of people to invest their retirement funds with unscrupulous investment bankers that opened the door for a lot of the mess we are seeing today in the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 40+ years of neoliberal entrenchment in our government has effectively neutered antitrust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That an neocons. It is two sides of a coin. It is that away across the globe as you get these factions that believe that they are above the laws and not really criminals when in fact they are criminals against both humanity and God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kleptocracy is the economic model that has intertwined the once distinct factions.
Click to expand...

I think world trade needs to be done but with tight restrictions so locals are not displaced.


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## Tehon

RodISHI said:


> Tehon said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
> 
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> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that, I believe it is the very nature of capitalism to seek ever expanding profits by whatever means is at the capitalist's disposal. Crony capitalism is a meaningless term used to disguise the true nature of capitalism. Truly free markets, if such a thing were to exist, would descend into tyranny via monopolization.
> 
> 
> 
> That was why monopoly laws were on the books. Can't tell you where those are at today because I do not know if they kept them in place or did away with them through more legislation. I have no doubt when they repealed the Glass Steagall Act and convinced a lot of people to invest their retirement funds with unscrupulous investment bankers that opened the door for a lot of the mess we are seeing today in the USA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 40+ years of neoliberal entrenchment in our government has effectively neutered antitrust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That an neocons. It is two sides of a coin. It is that away across the globe as you get these factions that believe that they are above the laws and not really criminals when in fact they are criminals against both humanity and God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kleptocracy is the economic model that has intertwined the once distinct factions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think world trade needs to be done but with tight restrictions so locals are not displaced.
Click to expand...

I would prefer a more isolationist approach where resources and technological know how are shared/exchanged globally while production and distribution is retained locally.


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## RodISHI

Tehon said:


> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Tehon said:
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> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was why monopoly laws were on the books. Can't tell you where those are at today because I do not know if they kept them in place or did away with them through more legislation. I have no doubt when they repealed the Glass Steagall Act and convinced a lot of people to invest their retirement funds with unscrupulous investment bankers that opened the door for a lot of the mess we are seeing today in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 40+ years of neoliberal entrenchment in our government has effectively neutered antitrust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That an neocons. It is two sides of a coin. It is that away across the globe as you get these factions that believe that they are above the laws and not really criminals when in fact they are criminals against both humanity and God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kleptocracy is the economic model that has intertwined the once distinct factions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think world trade needs to be done but with tight restrictions so locals are not displaced.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would prefer a more isolationist approach where resources and technological know how are shared/exchanged globally while production and distribution is retained locally.
Click to expand...

I think both could work for awhile to insure everyone gets fed. Too many areas are still lacking the resources around the globe to just shut it short without preparing for a disaster. It just needs to be done more logically for innocent people do not get hurt in the process and entire environments are not destroyed; and it can't be done with such massive force again where innocents are destroyed. We need more peace makers, some good statesmen and negotiators that are capable of making long lasting agreements that are not corrupted to put more corrupt people in power positions.


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