# The Charge of the Light Brigade



## Semper Fi (Sep 13, 2007)

I read this after reading that the Iron Maiden song, "The Trooper," was inspired by it. Any thoughts or interpretations?



> The Charge of the Light Brigade
> Alfred, Lord Tennyson
> 
> 1.
> ...


----------



## maineman (Sep 13, 2007)

Semper Fi said:


> I read this after reading that the Iron Maiden song, "The Trooper," was inspired by it. Any thoughts or interpretations?




my father made me memorize that poem, amongst others, when I was 11 years old.  Back then, it was just a chore and a string of words...now it is a sad and poignant allegory.... 

military professionals will always throw themselves headlong into any mission they are sent on.

_"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."_

even today, it is not the military that blunders, but they always pay the ultimate price for those who do.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 13, 2007)

maineman said:


> my father made me memorize that poem, amongst others, when I was 11 years old.  Back then, it was just a chore and a string of words...now it is a sad and poignant allegory....
> 
> military professionals will always throw themselves headlong into any mission they are sent on.
> 
> ...



I am afraid it was a "military" blunder that the charge occurred. I suppose you could argue it was politics that put them in the Crimea.


----------



## maineman (Sep 13, 2007)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I am afraid it was a "military" blunder that the charge occurred. I suppose you could argue it was politics that put them in the Crimea.



both.  the point I was making was that military professionals have historically saluted and gone off to do whatever their chain of command asks them to do.  Iraq is no different.

I grow tired of people here and elsewhere attempting to mischaracterize my opposition to this administration's foreign policy as some sort of denigration of the military that is doing their best to implement it.


----------



## Diuretic (Sep 13, 2007)

The poem isn't historically accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Thomas_Brudenell,_7th_Earl_of_Cardigan

Interesting article about the bloke who did it.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 14, 2007)

Diuretic said:


> The poem isn't historically accurate.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Thomas_Brudenell,_7th_Earl_of_Cardigan
> 
> Interesting article about the bloke who did it.



You mean because there were more than 600? The charge was through a valley with guns in front and on both flanks. The Charge did reach the front guns and then the men returned through the valley.

Explain what is inaccurate please?


----------



## Diuretic (Sep 14, 2007)

_C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre._

I'm not getting stuck into Tennyson, I rather like him, "nature red in tooth and claw" and all that.  But he did write it from newspaper reports.  

Now I'm not going to start picking the poem apart.  It's a poem, not a documentary.  It was written, I think, as a paen to celebrate the courage of the  troopers who fought and probably to obfuscate the stupidity of their officers.  

It's a great poem but it's first and foremost a poem.  It's pretty right but there are some historical inaccuracies that even Tennyson himself acknowledged.

"Six is much better than seven hundred (as I think) metrically so keep it."

He needed to keep the galloping meter in that part of the poem.

Anyway, just some thoughts.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 14, 2007)

Diuretic said:


> _C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre._
> 
> I'm not getting stuck into Tennyson, I rather like him, "nature red in tooth and claw" and all that.  But he did write it from newspaper reports.
> 
> ...



In other words because he didn't mention every cavalryman it was inaccurate. The poem is pretty damn accurate from historical stand point.


----------



## Diuretic (Sep 14, 2007)

RetiredGySgt said:


> In other words because he didn't mention every cavalryman it was inaccurate. The poem is pretty damn accurate from historical stand point.



I don't know where this is going RGS but it's interesting.  Why does the poem have to be historically accurate?  Poems generally aren't.  _Le Chanson de Roland_, which I have admired since I was a kid (in translation, I don't speak French) is a great poem but not accurate, militarily speaking.  But it does capture the bravery of Ronald of Roncesvalles. Whoever composed it wasn't at Ronceveaux, but so what?  The spirit of the battle lies in the poetry.

Poetry is an art form, it has many purposes and they depend on context.  Exact accuracy isn't required.  "The Charge of the Light Brigade" has historical innacuracies.  Not that they matter.  It did its job.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 14, 2007)

Diuretic said:


> I don't know where this is going RGS but it's interesting.  Why does the poem have to be historically accurate?  Poems generally aren't.  _Le Chanson de Roland_, which I have admired since I was a kid (in translation, I don't speak French) is a great poem but not accurate, militarily speaking.  But it does capture the bravery of Ronald of Roncesvalles. Whoever composed it wasn't at Ronceveaux, but so what?  The spirit of the battle lies in the poetry.
> 
> Poetry is an art form, it has many purposes and they depend on context.  Exact accuracy isn't required.  "The Charge of the Light Brigade" has historical innacuracies.  Not that they matter.  It did its job.



Plural again, what else is inaccurate? For a poem it is very accurate.


----------



## Diuretic (Sep 14, 2007)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Plural again, what else is inaccurate? For a poem it is very accurate.



I could suggest that it glorified a really, really stupid military decision where these days an inquiry would probably sort out the fool that gave the orders and cashier him.  But that would go against the spirit of, "our is not to reason why..."  

Tennyson was pumping up the Brits over the Crimean War.  He had to put a spin on a military defeat by making it a legend about the bravery of the Light Brigade.  He was in fine company.  He may have been thinking about Horace:

"How sweet and lovely it is to die for your country:
Death pursues the man who flees,
spares not the hamstrings or cowardly backs
Of battle-shy youths."

And Wilfred Owen put that in perspective later when he wrote:

"If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie:_ Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori_."

Tennyson's poem is, I think, stirring poetry.  But it was a poem, not a field report.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Sep 14, 2007)

Diuretic said:


> I could suggest that it glorified a really, really stupid military decision where these days an inquiry would probably sort out the fool that gave the orders and cashier him.  But that would go against the spirit of, "our is not to reason why..."
> 
> Tennyson was pumping up the Brits over the Crimean War.  He had to put a spin on a military defeat by making it a legend about the bravery of the Light Brigade.  He was in fine company.  He may have been thinking about Horace:
> 
> ...



In other words the only "inaccuracy" is that for purpose of poem meter he wrote 600 instead of 678 or what ever the number was. Yet you keep talking about inaccuracies, PLURAL , as in more than one.


----------



## maineman (Sep 14, 2007)

I forgot again...how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?


----------



## maineman (Sep 14, 2007)

do we really think that ALL the world wondered what was happening there?

are we SURE that the prevailing winds were carrying the battery smoke to a place where the Light Brigade had to actually PLUNGE through it?

were there actually cossacks AND russians there?

are we SURE that those cossacks and russians were actually both shattered AND sundered?

important questions, all.


----------



## Diuretic (Sep 14, 2007)

maineman said:


> I forgot again...how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?



I'm still counting, now if I could only stop the interruptions....


----------



## Diuretic (Sep 14, 2007)

RetiredGySgt said:


> In other words the only "inaccuracy" is that for purpose of poem meter he wrote 600 instead of 678 or what ever the number was. Yet you keep talking about inaccuracies, PLURAL , as in more than one.



As I pointed out before, Tennyson wrote the poem from newspaper reports and for him the essence of the poem overrode some minor issues such as the actual number of troops involved in the charge.  That number had to be amended to meet his need for the meter of the poem to flow.

The original poster asked for thoughts.  My thoughts included the, "great poem, not historically accurate" point.  As a response to the OP it was correct.  Now the OPcan make up his or her mind whether or not it's worth following up on that.  I responded in the way I thought I should because I remember reading some studies that made that point.


----------

