# Seasonal flu and Novel H1N1 Vaccination Recommendations



## xotoxi

Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"

I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.

These are recommendations. No one is forced to get a flu shot. No one is required to get a flu shot. None of the members of the Federal Death Panel played a role in determining these recommendations.

Here they are:



> *Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*
> 
> 
> People who should get the seasonal vaccine each year are:
> Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
> Pregnant women
> People 50 years of age and older
> People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
> People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
> People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
> Health care workers
> Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
> Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)


 


> *2009 H1N1 Vaccine*
> 
> 
> The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:
> 
> *Pregnant women* because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
> *Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age* because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by cocooning them from the virus;
> *Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel* because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
> *All people from 6 months through 24 years of age*
> *Children from 6 months through 18 years of age* because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
> *Young adults 19 through 24 years of age* because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
> 
> *Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.*
> Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older.


 


> *Who Should NOT Be Vaccinated (Both vaccines)*
> 
> 
> There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine without first consulting a physician. These include:
> 
> People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs.
> People who have had a severe reaction to an influenza vaccination.
> People who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) within 6 weeks of getting an influenza vaccine.
> Children less than 6 months of age (influenza vaccine is not approved for this age group), and
> People who have a moderate-to-severe illness with a fever (they should wait until they recover to get vaccinated.)


Links...all this information is found on CDC.gov

(And finally...this thread is indended to be a PSA.  I encourage discussion and questions regarding the recommendations, but flames about the evil intentions of the medical field are not appreciated)


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## strollingbones

*cough* *cough* too late for me...i am afraid....i have read all this shit on how to tell a cold from the flu....*sniff* *sniff* and still cant figure it out....i started getting it yesterday....da man has had it since thursday....


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## strollingbones

and let me say this....oj is soooooooooo fucked up without vodka


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## xotoxi

strollingbones said:


> *cough* *cough* too late for me...i am afraid....i have read all this shit on how to tell a cold from the flu....*sniff* *sniff* and still cant figure it out....i started getting it yesterday....da man has had it since thursday....


 
When it started on Thursday, did it come on very suddenly (like over a period of an hour) and did it feel like a train hit you?


If not, I'm guessing that you have a cold.


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## random3434

Thank you for that information xotoxi.


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## Mad Scientist

I haven't received a vaccination in years but I don't sick very often either. I played outside a lot when I was young, had the usual childhood diseases. Even had chicken pox twice! Second time when I was 30.

These vaccinations were just offered where I work yesterday but I turned em down.


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## xotoxi

This is what it feels like when the flu hits you:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SukTBSJJ4KM]YouTube - MAN HIT BY TRAIN[/ame]


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## strollingbones

i am a whiner...so of course it feels like a train wreck....its a cold....man got it thursday and still went camping...he didnt really get bad till after going on the gauley....whitewater rafting....then admits he had more than the sniffles...i started yesterday....dripping nose..and throat...its a friggin cold...tell me why you quacks cant cure the damn cold....you can do mothering heart transplants...but the common cold....noooooooooo that beyond your asses...did i mention i whine a lot when sick...


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## strollingbones

o and thanks for the info and listening to the whine...i would rep you but i cant...i have used all my damned rep....hell i couldnt even ding rhodes if i could find him....


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## Emma

xotoxi said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> *cough* *cough* too late for me...i am afraid....i have read all this shit on how to tell a cold from the flu....*sniff* *sniff* and still cant figure it out....i started getting it yesterday....da man has had it since thursday....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it started on Thursday, *did it come on very suddenly (like over a period of an hour) and did it feel like a train hit you?*
> 
> 
> If not, I'm guessing that you have a cold.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. 

The last time I had the flu was about 15 years ago.  I left for work feeling just fine and dandy. Halfway there I had to pull over and call for my daughter to come pick me up. I don't remember much of the next week or so. Brutal.


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## Terral

Hi Xotoxi:



xotoxi said:


> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.



The information on display in the Opening Post omits the fact that the "Novel H1N1" Virus is a *Triple-Triple Recombinant Bio-Weapon* that includes key DNA fragments from the 1918 H5N1 (Avian) Kansas/Spanish Flu that killed more than 50 million people. In fact, this Lab-Created Bio-Weapon (Labvirus.com) is only the *"Herald/Carrier Wave" Strain* (mild or no symptoms) that will create two dozen killer strains and a few super strains when recombined with the mutagen contained inside the lethal H1N1 Vaccines (my Swine11 Topic). The very best source of information on this Rothschild/Rockefeller Eugenics Bio-Weapon is from *Dr. Bill Deagle* and *Dr. True Ott* on the *Nutrimedical Report* (link) and the *Rense.com Radio Network* (story). The very best YouTube Video series describing this Bio-Weapon is the *Granada Forum Swine11 Presentation* given by *Dr. Bill Deagle on Sept. 3, 2009* (Update Post #308 << great stuff).

Dr. Len Horowitz gives his warnings about the H1N1 Bio-Weapon here:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBeKB7aKzOs&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Mexican Flu Outbreak 2009: SPECIAL REPORT by Dr Leonard Horowitz[/ame]

GL,

Terral


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## strollingbones

Terral said:


> Hi Xotoxi:
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The information on display in the Opening Post omits the fact that the "Novel H1N1" Virus is a *Triple-Triple Recombinant Bio-Weapon* that includes key DNA fragments from the 1918 H5N1 (Avian) Kansas/Spanish Flu that killed more than 50 million people. In fact, this Lab-Created Bio-Weapon (Labvirus.com) is only the *"Herald/Carrier Wave" Strain* (mild or no symptoms) that will create two dozen killer strains and a few super strains when recombined with the mutagen contained inside the lethal H1N1 Vaccines (my Swine11 Topic). The very best source of information on this Rothschild/Rockefeller Eugenics Bio-Weapon is from *Dr. Bill Deagle* and *Dr. True Ott* on the *Nutrimedical Report* (link) and the *Rense.com Radio Network* (story). The very best YouTube Video series describing this Bio-Weapon is the *Granada Forum Swine11 Presentation* given by *Dr. Bill Deagle on Sept. 3, 2009* (Update Post #308 << great stuff).
> 
> Dr. Len Horowitz gives his warnings about the H1N1 Bio-Weapon here:
> 
> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBeKB7aKzOs&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Mexican Flu Outbreak 2009: SPECIAL REPORT by Dr Leonard Horowitz[/ame]
> 
> GL,
> 
> Terral
Click to expand...




i am a victim of bio war?  feels like a cold...you know...but that would explain why pilgram in ma has it...and i have it in nc...a virus wouldnt break out like that...(no virus carried by money) so i am going for bio warfare....

that makes xox and his fancy notions....(going to medical school doesnt mean mal here)
the enemy!!!!!


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## Terral

Hi Strolling:



strollingbones said:


> i am a victim of bio war?



You are the victim of a Rothschild/Rockefeller Eugenics Depopulation Plan that is about to go into 'hot mode.' Right now the "H1N1 Herald/Carrier Strain" is spreading 2.3 times faster than any influenza virus in the history of the world. Only about one in twenty infected hosts display symptoms, which means a vast majority of 'carriers' show no symptoms at all. However, this Herald Strain is NOTHING in comparison to the recombinant 'plague virus' that will be created inside you as a 'human test tube' IF you take the H1N1 Vaccine!!!! Listen to Dr. Bill Deagle give his explanation in the first hour of this edition of the *Nutrimedical Report:*

GCN Live Link << Bookmark and listen daily

Sept. 25, 2009 Hour 1  << Listen to Dr. Deagle

Sept. 25, 2009 Hour3 << Swine11 Update



strollingbones said:


> feels like a cold...you know...but that would explain why pilgram in ma has it...and i have it in nc...a virus wouldnt break out like that...(no virus carried by money) so i am going for bio warfare....



Listen carefully, Strolling: This H1N1/H5N1 Bio-Weapon Virus was injected into the arm of the Global Population by *the same people* (Rothschild/Rockefeller = Chapter 3 = owners of the FED) *who murdered JFK* (#3) and the *same people who planned and carried out the 911 Attacks* (my 9/11 Blog). These are the *same people who orchestrated the U.S./Global Meltdown* and they have already siphoned off American Wealth through their *privately-owned Federal Reserve* 'and' all of these *Stimulus/Bailout Schemes* that placed private debt onto the 100+ Trillion-Dollar National Debt. The *Rothschild/Rockefeller Eugenics/Depopulation Plan* (link) includes reducing the Global Population to below *500 million souls* for bringing in 'their' version of a *New World Order Utopia* (Georgia Guidestones). 



strollingbones said:


> that makes xox and his fancy notions....(going to medical school doesnt mean mal here) the enemy!!!!!



The enemy is all around you like wolves in sheep's clothing . . . 

GL,

Terral


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## LA RAM FAN

Do not take any vaccinations.it is the WORST thing you can do for yourself.


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## Toro

Dr Xotoxi.

I have a question.  If you get a flu shot one year, do you have to get one every year thereafter?


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## DiveCon

xotoxi said:


> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.
> 
> These are recommendations. No one is forced to get a flu shot. No one is required to get a flu shot. None of the members of the Federal Death Panel played a role in determining these recommendations.
> 
> Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*
> 
> 
> People who should get the seasonal vaccine each year are:
> Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
> Pregnant women
> People 50 years of age and older
> People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
> People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
> People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
> Health care workers
> Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
> Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2009 H1N1 Vaccine*
> 
> 
> The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:
> 
> *Pregnant women* because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
> *Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age* because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by cocooning them from the virus;
> *Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel* because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
> *All people from 6 months through 24 years of age*
> *Children from 6 months through 18 years of age* because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
> *Young adults 19 through 24 years of age* because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
> 
> *Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.*
> Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Should NOT Be Vaccinated (Both vaccines)*
> 
> 
> There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine without first consulting a physician. These include:
> 
> People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs.
> People who have had a severe reaction to an influenza vaccination.
> People who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) within 6 weeks of getting an influenza vaccine.
> Children less than 6 months of age (influenza vaccine is not approved for this age group), and
> People who have a moderate-to-severe illness with a fever (they should wait until they recover to get vaccinated.)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links...all this information is found on CDC.gov
> 
> (And finally...this thread is indended to be a PSA.  I encourage discussion and questions regarding the recommendations, but flames about the evil intentions of the medical field are not appreciated)
Click to expand...

thanks for this useful info

it wont stop the nutters that think this is some government mind control drug

but then, no amount of truth ever will


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## DiveCon

terral said:


> hi xotoxi:
> 
> 
> 
> Terral





terral said:


> hi strolling:
> 
> [
> 
> terral





9/11 inside job said:


> do not take any vaccinations.it is the worst thing you can do for yourself.


see!!!!!!!!


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## Emma

Things are starting to pick up around here. 

Question... my manager and I were talking about this before I left this morning, and the info we've been given so far isn't clear on this issue.

If you can shed the virus 24 hours before you even  exhibit symptoms, is it possible to be _exposed_ and pass along the virus without becoming sick yourself? We've been told under no circumstances are we to come to work if _we're_ sick; but we wondered what to do if someone in our _family_ gets sick (we both have young kids in our homes). They haven't been clear on what to do in those circumstances, especially if our work day falls within the incubation period after exposure. I guess I'm asking if someone who is  exposed should stay away until it's clear they aren't going to come down with the flu and is it possible they can be 'carrier', even if they don't. Given our patient population, it could be dangerous if that's the case. At the same time, we're going to need all our staff who are able to work. 

What a mess...


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## strollingbones

i am so confused....just confused.


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## Emma

strollingbones said:


> i am so confused....just confused.



My manager said about 45% of the cases are young kids


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## Old Rocks

Where I work, we have been told, if you think you have the flu, don't come in. We, like most manufacturing industries, are running with a skeleton crew right now, and if a third of us go down, the plant shuts down. So the order are, don't come in sick. Period!.


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## dilloduck

strollingbones said:


> i am so confused....just confused.



confusion---one of the first symptoms-----you're dead meat, bones.  ( hehe, meatbones )


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## midcan5

What always strikes me as funny is the people I know who run to get flu shots etc are the sick ones. I grew up in large poor family and I think we must have developed immunities to everything. I have never had the flu or even a cold in thirty years, one day I will just drop over dead but till then

Que sera, sera.
Whatever will be, will be.
The future's not ours to see.
Que sera, sera.
What will be, will be.
Que sera, sera.

I do exercise a lot - bicycle - and take a variety of vitamins but not daily except C and B5.


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## geauxtohell

Toro said:


> Dr Xotoxi.
> 
> I have a question.  If you get a flu shot one year, do you have to get one every year thereafter?



Toro,

In our clinic we recommend people get the seasonal flu vaccine annually (note, I am not a doctor).  The flu vaccine contains two strains of flu A and one strain of flu B.  The people that make the vaccines basically try and estimate which strains will be bad.  Sometimes they miss.

However, if you are vaccinated against three strains of the flu every year, you are slowly building up immunity to several types of the flu.

The pros can correct me if I am wrong.


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## Emma

For the record, this sucks.


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## geauxtohell

For the vaccines haters.

Vaccines have:

Eliminated one of the most dangerous pathogens, smallpox, in the entire world.

Virtually eliminated one of the major factors of neonatal mortality and morbidity via neonatal meningitis with the H. influenzae vaccine in the United States.  

Eliminated incidents of paralysis via the polio virus in the United States.  

In ten years, chickenpox (and by proxy shingles) will be a distant memory in this country due to vaccine.  

Now continue one with your rants about the evils of vaccines.  Your inner paranoia won't erase the fact that the world is a safer place due to them.


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## geauxtohell

Emma said:


> For the record, this sucks.



I am sorry.  I hope you get to feeling better.


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## Emma

geauxtohell said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, this sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry.  I hope you get to feeling better.
Click to expand...


lol thanks. 

Just feeling sorry for myself. I was cruising along ok until the throat pain hit this morning. Now i can't talk. 

Not that there's anyone to talk to ><


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## DiveCon

Emma said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, this sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry.  I hope you get to feeling better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol thanks.
> 
> Just feeling sorry for myself. I was cruising along ok until the throat pain hit this morning. Now i can't talk.
> 
> Not that there's anyone to talk to ><
Click to expand...

sorry to hear you're not feeling well


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## Emma

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry.  I hope you get to feeling better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol thanks.
> 
> Just feeling sorry for myself. I was cruising along ok until the throat pain hit this morning. Now i can't talk.
> 
> Not that there's anyone to talk to ><
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sorry to hear you're not feeling well
Click to expand...


Thanks. This _really_ sucks 

Everyone is gone from home, so at least I know I won't be the one infecting them. 

Kinda quiet around here. I gotta go watch some spongebob LOL


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## xsited1

Do Vaccines Cause Autism?


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## goldcatt

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol thanks.
> 
> Just feeling sorry for myself. I was cruising along ok until the throat pain hit this morning. Now i can't talk.
> 
> Not that there's anyone to talk to ><
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry to hear you're not feeling well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks. This _really_ sucks
> 
> Everyone is gone from home, so at least I know I won't be the one infecting them.
> 
> Kinda quiet around here. I gotta go watch some spongebob LOL
Click to expand...




No Emma, don't do it! It's not worth it!


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## AllieBaba

My kids and I went and got the regular flu shot the day before yesterday. My son reacts pretty strongly, he always has localized pain, and sometimes a fever (for example, when he received 5 vaccines at once before school last year..one of his legs was very sore and red for a week.)

This year it was just one shot, in the arm. He again had a pretty ouchie arm, but only for the day of the vaccine (later in the evening) which was taken care of with a dose of ibuprofen that night, the next morning, and the next afternoon. He hasn't complained of it since.

We're going in as soon as H1N1 vaccines come because we seem to be getting hit by it really hard in this neck of the woods. One of the local hospitals shut down because they were overwhelmed, and then there were all the kids (60 all told) who came down with it at a camp over a period of a few weeks.

I won't get the H1N1. For one thing, I'm fairly certain I already had it, and although I work with at an at-risk population, I'm not terribly concerned about getting it and DYING, if I get it at all.

But kids are dropping like flies from it. I don't think the nasal vaccination has the mercury risks the injections have...though I'm not sure which we're getting at our clinic when it comes. But the kids are getting it anyway. Then they go back in a few weeks for a flu (the original flu) booster because they haven't been vacinnated for flu before, unless maybe they got a vaccination as infants, and it was recommended if they hadn't received it in the last couple of years, they get a booster.


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## AllieBaba

There's really no substantive proof that vaccinations cause autism. However, the fact that we use so much of the mercury derivitive in the vaccinations (it's used as a preservative and has been since 17 of 22 kids vaccinated some time back died of some sort of staph infection in the vaccines). I've never heard of autism suddenly becoming evident after a kid is past the age of 3 or 4, and I've seen no evidence of it in my kids, so I'm honestly just not that worried about it.


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## Emma

goldcatt said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry to hear you're not feeling well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. This _really_ sucks
> 
> Everyone is gone from home, so at least I know I won't be the one infecting them.
> 
> Kinda quiet around here. I gotta go watch some spongebob LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Emma, don't do it! It's not worth it!
Click to expand...



I miss the little one (my grandson, not spongebob lol). We watch spongebob together (and sing the song too!). His other favorite is Bob the Builder... but I have to draw the line _somewhere_.


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## geauxtohell

AllieBaba said:


> There's really no substantive proof that vaccinations cause autism. However, the fact that we use so much of the mercury derivitive in the vaccinations (it's used as a preservative and has been since 17 of 22 kids vaccinated some time back died of some sort of staph infection in the vaccines). I've never heard of autism suddenly becoming evident after a kid is past the age of 3 or 4, and I've seen no evidence of it in my kids, so I'm honestly just not that worried about it.



There is absolutely no evidence that vaccines cause autism, and the issue has been studied extensively.  It would be nice _if_ it was as "mercury in vaccines", because that would be an easy fix.

However, this is no difference in autism rates in our country and countries that don't use mercury.

Vaccines and autism are an easy cause and effect relationship, kind of like tonsils and sickness at one time.  However, when you look at the evidence, it's just not there.  

Keep in mind that autism is a relatively new diagnosis and there is much we don't know about it.  Could the spike in autism diagnosis' be due to the fact that it is just now being diagnosed?

The people that perpetuate this autism/vaccine nonsense are wrong.  What bothers me is that I think more than a few know they are wrong.


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## THE LIGHT

Some more important info on flu shots. Before you get one you may want to consider...



> 1. An "informal" [e.g., illegal] clinical trial of the Avian Flu vaccine on about 200 Polish vagrants resulted in 11 immediate deaths and an additional set of 20 later deaths (approximately 15% of the test population). The doctors and nurses involved were charged with murder. (Fact. 2008)
> 
> 2. The Philippine High Court convicted WHO (The World Health Organization) of involuntarily sterilizing over 3 million Philippina women through the use of vaccines. (Fact)
> 
> 3. The WHO in 1985 documented that one of its' primary goals for the use of a sterility vaccine disguised as a smallpox vaccine was to "eliminate 150 million excess Sub Saharan Africans". (Fact, 1985-ongoing)
> 
> 4. The WHO 5-shot vaccine programs for tetanus in third world countries in South and Central America caused the involuntary sterilization of millions of women. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 5. Monsanto's MON 810 corn causes sterility according to studies published by the Austrian Government. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 6. Monsanto's MON 810 corn contains the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus which, when ingested, lowers the bodies CD 4 cells to a point which, on immune tests, indicate that a person has HIV/AIDS. The lowered CD 4 cells results from eating GMO corn, the staple of the diet in many parts of Black Africa. MON 810 is grown in Europe for animal feed and in many places, including the US, around the world for human food. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 7. Merck's Gardasil vaccine causes death, collapse and chronic illness in young woman and girls, including a new, never-before described "disease" called Juvenile ALS, a fatal condition in which the nervous system is slowly destroyed while consciousness remains unimpaired. This vaccine increases cervical cancer by 44.7% in women and girls who already have Human Papilloma Virus. Cervical Cancer is easily detected and cured in early stages and is not a major killer of women. Gardasil contains substances which may cause sterility in women receiving it and any protection lasts only a few years, so 9 year olds will probably not be sexually active by the time this protection has worn off. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 8. Baxter International Inc. was in the process of applying for a contract to provide Avian Flu vaccines to European countries in the event of an Avian Flu epidemic. Its Austrian laboratory shipped Seasonal Flu vaccines to 18 countries in Europe. A laboratory technician tested the Baxter Seasonal Flu vaccines sent to the Czech Republic and discovered that they were contaminated with a highly pathogenic version of the Avian Flu, 72 Kilograms of it, although Level 3 precautions were in place and such contamination "could not have happened accidentally" according to experts in the field. No documentation of the destruction of this highly infective material has been provided although the Austrian Health Ministry insists that the deadly viral material was destroyed. (Fact, 2008, 2009)
> 
> 9. It normally takes a minimum of 12 to 18 months to create a vaccine after a specific virus has been identified. (Fact)
> 
> 10. The "Seed Culture" for the Swine Flu virus was provided to vaccine companies in May, 2009. Baxter International Inc. announced in June, 2009 that they would have their vaccine ready in July, 2009 . (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 11. The US Government has spent more than a billion dollars to develop and to make available the Swine flu vaccine for a disease which poses no significant health threat. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 12. *A significant number of virologists and other scientists are on record stating that the Swine Flu was created in a laboratory and could not evolve naturally.* (Fact, 2009)


 

source: http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.htmlhttp://www.whale.to/vaccine/ayoub_v.html
http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.html


----------



## THE LIGHT

AllieBaba said:


> There's really no substantive proof that vaccinations cause autism. However, the fact that we use so much of the mercury derivitive in the vaccinations (it's used as a preservative and has been since 17 of 22 kids vaccinated some time back died of some sort of staph infection in the vaccines). I've never heard of autism suddenly becoming evident after a kid is past the age of 3 or 4, and I've seen no evidence of it in my kids, so I'm honestly just not that worried about it.


 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646&q=Dr.+David+Ayoub%2C+M.D.#


----------



## DiveCon

THE LIGHT said:


> Some more important info on flu shots. Before you get one you may want to consider...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. An "informal" [e.g., illegal] clinical trial of the Avian Flu vaccine on about 200 Polish vagrants resulted in 11 immediate deaths and an additional set of 20 later deaths (approximately 15% of the test population). The doctors and nurses involved were charged with murder. (Fact. 2008)
> 
> 2. The Philippine High Court convicted WHO (The World Health Organization) of involuntarily sterilizing over 3 million Philippina women through the use of vaccines. (Fact)
> 
> 3. The WHO in 1985 documented that one of its' primary goals for the use of a sterility vaccine disguised as a smallpox vaccine was to "eliminate 150 million excess Sub Saharan Africans". (Fact, 1985-ongoing)
> 
> 4. The WHO 5-shot vaccine programs for tetanus in third world countries in South and Central America caused the involuntary sterilization of millions of women. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 5. Monsanto's MON 810 corn causes sterility according to studies published by the Austrian Government. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 6. Monsanto's MON 810 corn contains the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus which, when ingested, lowers the bodies CD 4 cells to a point which, on immune tests, indicate that a person has HIV/AIDS. The lowered CD 4 cells results from eating GMO corn, the staple of the diet in many parts of Black Africa. MON 810 is grown in Europe for animal feed and in many places, including the US, around the world for human food. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 7. Merck's Gardasil vaccine causes death, collapse and chronic illness in young woman and girls, including a new, never-before described "disease" called Juvenile ALS, a fatal condition in which the nervous system is slowly destroyed while consciousness remains unimpaired. This vaccine increases cervical cancer by 44.7% in women and girls who already have Human Papilloma Virus. Cervical Cancer is easily detected and cured in early stages and is not a major killer of women. Gardasil contains substances which may cause sterility in women receiving it and any protection lasts only a few years, so 9 year olds will probably not be sexually active by the time this protection has worn off. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 8. Baxter International Inc. was in the process of applying for a contract to provide Avian Flu vaccines to European countries in the event of an Avian Flu epidemic. Its Austrian laboratory shipped Seasonal Flu vaccines to 18 countries in Europe. A laboratory technician tested the Baxter Seasonal Flu vaccines sent to the Czech Republic and discovered that they were contaminated with a highly pathogenic version of the Avian Flu, 72 Kilograms of it, although Level 3 precautions were in place and such contamination "could not have happened accidentally" according to experts in the field. No documentation of the destruction of this highly infective material has been provided although the Austrian Health Ministry insists that the deadly viral material was destroyed. (Fact, 2008, 2009)
> 
> 9. It normally takes a minimum of 12 to 18 months to create a vaccine after a specific virus has been identified. (Fact)
> 
> 10. The "Seed Culture" for the Swine Flu virus was provided to vaccine companies in May, 2009. Baxter International Inc. announced in June, 2009 that they would have their vaccine ready in July, 2009 . (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 11. The US Government has spent more than a billion dollars to develop and to make available the Swine flu vaccine for a disease which poses no significant health threat. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 12. *A significant number of virologists and other scientists are on record stating that the Swine Flu was created in a laboratory and could not evolve naturally.* (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.htmlhttp://www.whale.to/vaccine/ayoub_v.html
> http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.html
Click to expand...

all those things they claim as "fact" they dont use anything to substantiate it 
given that, i wont take anything on a site called whale.to to be factual in nature


----------



## AllieBaba

There's no proof flu shots cause autism.


----------



## THE LIGHT

AllieBaba said:


> There's no proof flu shots cause autism.


 

Listen to the whole thing but at 1:40 - 2:20 he talks about the CDC admitting that there is irrefutable evidence of a link between the two.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQG5Q4GWw2o"]YouTube - Present Robert F Kennedy Jr Shocking Vaccine Cover Up Part1[/ame]

Also here is another doctor admiting that the two are linked...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1z7KSEnyxw&feature=related"]YouTube - Doctor Admits Vaccine Is More Deadly Than Swine Flu Itself & Will Not Give It To His Kids[/ame]


The California Department of Developmental Services in 1999 put out a report in which they stated that there was a 273% increase in autism since 1960. Flu vaccines have been around since the 1940's so go figure. 

http://www.dds.ca.gov/Autism/docs/autism_report_1999.pdf


----------



## THE LIGHT

DiveCon said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some more important info on flu shots. Before you get one you may want to consider...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. An "informal" [e.g., illegal] clinical trial of the Avian Flu vaccine on about 200 Polish vagrants resulted in 11 immediate deaths and an additional set of 20 later deaths (approximately 15% of the test population). The doctors and nurses involved were charged with murder. (Fact. 2008)
> 
> 2. The Philippine High Court convicted WHO (The World Health Organization) of involuntarily sterilizing over 3 million Philippina women through the use of vaccines. (Fact)
> 
> 3. The WHO in 1985 documented that one of its' primary goals for the use of a sterility vaccine disguised as a smallpox vaccine was to "eliminate 150 million excess Sub Saharan Africans". (Fact, 1985-ongoing)
> 
> 4. The WHO 5-shot vaccine programs for tetanus in third world countries in South and Central America caused the involuntary sterilization of millions of women. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 5. Monsanto's MON 810 corn causes sterility according to studies published by the Austrian Government. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 6. Monsanto's MON 810 corn contains the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus which, when ingested, lowers the bodies CD 4 cells to a point which, on immune tests, indicate that a person has HIV/AIDS. The lowered CD 4 cells results from eating GMO corn, the staple of the diet in many parts of Black Africa. MON 810 is grown in Europe for animal feed and in many places, including the US, around the world for human food. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 7. Merck's Gardasil vaccine causes death, collapse and chronic illness in young woman and girls, including a new, never-before described "disease" called Juvenile ALS, a fatal condition in which the nervous system is slowly destroyed while consciousness remains unimpaired. This vaccine increases cervical cancer by 44.7% in women and girls who already have Human Papilloma Virus. Cervical Cancer is easily detected and cured in early stages and is not a major killer of women. Gardasil contains substances which may cause sterility in women receiving it and any protection lasts only a few years, so 9 year olds will probably not be sexually active by the time this protection has worn off. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 8. Baxter International Inc. was in the process of applying for a contract to provide Avian Flu vaccines to European countries in the event of an Avian Flu epidemic. Its Austrian laboratory shipped Seasonal Flu vaccines to 18 countries in Europe. A laboratory technician tested the Baxter Seasonal Flu vaccines sent to the Czech Republic and discovered that they were contaminated with a highly pathogenic version of the Avian Flu, 72 Kilograms of it, although Level 3 precautions were in place and such contamination "could not have happened accidentally" according to experts in the field. No documentation of the destruction of this highly infective material has been provided although the Austrian Health Ministry insists that the deadly viral material was destroyed. (Fact, 2008, 2009)
> 
> 9. It normally takes a minimum of 12 to 18 months to create a vaccine after a specific virus has been identified. (Fact)
> 
> 10. The "Seed Culture" for the Swine Flu virus was provided to vaccine companies in May, 2009. Baxter International Inc. announced in June, 2009 that they would have their vaccine ready in July, 2009 . (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 11. The US Government has spent more than a billion dollars to develop and to make available the Swine flu vaccine for a disease which poses no significant health threat. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 12. *A significant number of virologists and other scientists are on record stating that the Swine Flu was created in a laboratory and could not evolve naturally.* (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all those things they claim as "fact" they dont use anything to substantiate it
> given that, i wont take anything on a site called whale.to to be factual in nature
Click to expand...

 


> *Joseph Moshe (MOSSAD Microbiologist): Swine flu vaccine is bioweapon*
> 
> Friday, August 21, 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph Moshe, MOSSAD
> 
> Today, the MSM are not talking about this case any more. Yesterday, they wanted us to believe that Joseph Moshe was a nutcase and a terrorist, arrested for threatening to bomb the White House. Interesting detail about his arrest (the Westwood standoff) was that he seemed to be immune to the 5 cans of tear gas and 5 gallons of law-enforcement grade  pepper spray they pumped into his face. He very calmly remained in his car, as the video footage of his arrest shows.
> 
> Professor Moshe  had  called into a live radio show by Dr. A. True Ott, (explanation of Joseph Moshes call at 06:00) broadcast on Republic Broadcasting claiming to be a microbiologist who wanted to supply evidence to a States Attorney regarding tainted H1N1 Swine flu vaccines being produced by Baxter BioPharma Solutions. He said that Baxters Ukrainian lab was in fact producing a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine. He claimed that the vaccine contained an adjuvant (additive) designed to weaken the immune system, and replicated RNA from the virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic Spanish flu, causing global sickness and mass death.
> Sources tell us that Bar-Joseph Moshe made no threat against the President or the White House. He did not mention any bomb or attack. He then proceeded to inform the White House he intended to go public with this information. When he noticed men in suits in front of his house and feared that the FBI was about to detain him, he packed some belongings into his car and, him being a dual Israeli citizen, tried to reach the Israeli consulate located in close proximity to the federal building where the standoff took place. The FBI and the bomb squad prevented him from reaching it. Who is this man? His profile on biomedexperts.com says he is a plant disease expert with many publications on his name involving the genetic manipulation of virii. Photographic evidence that Moshe is who he says he is can be found here.
> Joseph Moshe was soon after his arrest sent or let go to Israel. Nothing has been heard from him since. The Secret Service was not the agency involved in the surveillance of Moshe at his home in California. This was done by the FBI, who had orders to detain or arrest him. Mounted on top of a large black vehicle used in his arrest was a microwave weapon that possibly damaged the electronics in Moshes car as well as any communication devices he had which might have been used to contact the media or others who could help him.
> Moshe did not suffer the same effects of the gas and pepper spray that others would have because he had built up an immunity to such weapons as a by-product of his Mossad training. Moshe was not handcuffed because he was not placed under arrest.
> Does this sound like an insane conspiracy theory? Sure it does. Due to the scarcity and anonimity of the sources we would dismiss it as exactly that, if it werent for some uncomfortable facts: Baxter Pharmaceutical has been caught, red-handed, in spreading a live, genetically engineered H5N1 Bird flu vaccine as a lethal biological weapon all over the world, destined to be used for human vaccinations. This happened just a few months ago. And only luck prevented a global catastrophe of epic proportions.
> Baxter International Inc. had mixed live, genetically engineered avian flue viruses in vaccine material shipped to 18 countries. Only by sheer luck, a Czech laboratory decided to test the vaccine on a dozen ferrets, which all died in days. The World Health Organization was notified and catastrophe was averted. This was clearly a deliberate act on Baxters part, because they adhere to BS3, bio-safety level three. Baxter admitted a mistake. Such monumental screwups are totally impossible at that level. Many safety systems would have needed to be sabotaged, many key personell would have needed to be bribed. It simply cant be done without direction from the inside. They did not send out the wrong vial  they produced dozens of gallons of biological-weapon agent (genetically engineered live H5N1 / Bird flu virus), then sent it out as a vaccine.
> Baxter knew full well that their vaccine was lethal, because the year before they had tested it on a few hundred homeless Polish people  dozens died as a result.
> Wheres the meat? Well  Baxter is now being sued for the deliberate, repeated contamination of vaccines with biological weapons designed  by them  to mass-murder people. Here is the complaint (PDF). By some kook nutcase? Not likely  Jane Burgermeister is an experienced, respected journalist. She is not the only one suing Baxter for planning and executing a plan for global genocide: Others are filing complaints as well. Read a well-researched complaint here (PDF).


Joseph Moshe (MOSSAD Microbiologist): &#8220;Swine flu vaccine is bioweapon&#8221;


----------



## Emma

THE LIGHT said:


> Listen to the whole thing but at 1:40 - 2:20 he talks about the CDC admitting that there is irrefutable evidence of a link between the two.


Why don't you just link to the CDC page where they do so. Thanks. 



> Also here is another doctor admiting that the two are linked...


That is not an infectious disease expert, for one. And he also claims squalene is used in US vaccines. It is not. 




> The California Department of Developmental Services in 1999 put out a report in which they stated that there was a 273% increase in autism since 1960. *Flu vaccines have been around since the 1940's so go figure. *


Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?


----------



## DiveCon

THE LIGHT said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some more important info on flu shots. Before you get one you may want to consider...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.html
> 
> 
> 
> all those things they claim as "fact" they dont use anything to substantiate it
> given that, i wont take anything on a site called whale.to to be factual in nature
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Joseph Moshe (MOSSAD Microbiologist): Swine flu vaccine is bioweapon*
> 
> Friday, August 21, 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph Moshe, MOSSAD
> 
> Today, the MSM are not talking about this case any more. Yesterday, they wanted us to believe that Joseph Moshe was a nutcase and a terrorist, arrested for threatening to bomb the White House. Interesting detail about his arrest (the Westwood standoff) was that he seemed to be immune to the 5 cans of tear gas and 5 gallons of law-enforcement grade  pepper spray they pumped into his face. He very calmly remained in his car, as the video footage of his arrest shows.
> 
> Professor Moshe  had  called into a live radio show by Dr. A. True Ott, (explanation of Joseph Moshes call at 06:00) broadcast on Republic Broadcasting claiming to be a microbiologist who wanted to supply evidence to a States Attorney regarding tainted H1N1 Swine flu vaccines being produced by Baxter BioPharma Solutions. He said that Baxters Ukrainian lab was in fact producing a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine. He claimed that the vaccine contained an adjuvant (additive) designed to weaken the immune system, and replicated RNA from the virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic Spanish flu, causing global sickness and mass death.
> Sources tell us that Bar-Joseph Moshe made no threat against the President or the White House. He did not mention any bomb or attack. He then proceeded to inform the White House he intended to go public with this information. When he noticed men in suits in front of his house and feared that the FBI was about to detain him, he packed some belongings into his car and, him being a dual Israeli citizen, tried to reach the Israeli consulate located in close proximity to the federal building where the standoff took place. The FBI and the bomb squad prevented him from reaching it. Who is this man? His profile on biomedexperts.com says he is a plant disease expert with many publications on his name involving the genetic manipulation of virii. Photographic evidence that Moshe is who he says he is can be found here.
> Joseph Moshe was soon after his arrest sent or let go to Israel. Nothing has been heard from him since. The Secret Service was not the agency involved in the surveillance of Moshe at his home in California. This was done by the FBI, who had orders to detain or arrest him. Mounted on top of a large black vehicle used in his arrest was a microwave weapon that possibly damaged the electronics in Moshes car as well as any communication devices he had which might have been used to contact the media or others who could help him.
> Moshe did not suffer the same effects of the gas and pepper spray that others would have because he had built up an immunity to such weapons as a by-product of his Mossad training. Moshe was not handcuffed because he was not placed under arrest.
> Does this sound like an insane conspiracy theory? Sure it does. Due to the scarcity and anonimity of the sources we would dismiss it as exactly that, if it werent for some uncomfortable facts: Baxter Pharmaceutical has been caught, red-handed, in spreading a live, genetically engineered H5N1 Bird flu vaccine as a lethal biological weapon all over the world, destined to be used for human vaccinations. This happened just a few months ago. And only luck prevented a global catastrophe of epic proportions.
> Baxter International Inc. had mixed live, genetically engineered avian flue viruses in vaccine material shipped to 18 countries. Only by sheer luck, a Czech laboratory decided to test the vaccine on a dozen ferrets, which all died in days. The World Health Organization was notified and catastrophe was averted. This was clearly a deliberate act on Baxters part, because they adhere to BS3, bio-safety level three. Baxter admitted a mistake. Such monumental screwups are totally impossible at that level. Many safety systems would have needed to be sabotaged, many key personell would have needed to be bribed. It simply cant be done without direction from the inside. They did not send out the wrong vial  they produced dozens of gallons of biological-weapon agent (genetically engineered live H5N1 / Bird flu virus), then sent it out as a vaccine.
> Baxter knew full well that their vaccine was lethal, because the year before they had tested it on a few hundred homeless Polish people  dozens died as a result.
> Wheres the meat? Well  Baxter is now being sued for the deliberate, repeated contamination of vaccines with biological weapons designed  by them  to mass-murder people. Here is the complaint (PDF). By some kook nutcase? Not likely  Jane Burgermeister is an experienced, respected journalist. She is not the only one suing Baxter for planning and executing a plan for global genocide: Others are filing complaints as well. Read a well-researched complaint here (PDF).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Joseph Moshe (MOSSAD Microbiologist): &#8220;Swine flu vaccine is bioweapon&#8221;
Click to expand...

hey, its on the internet, it MUST be true





You can't make this up!

anyone that trusts anything from THAT site has a screw loose


----------



## DiveCon

Emma said:


> Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?


how DARE you use common sense and reason


----------



## Emma

THE LIGHT said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's really no substantive proof that vaccinations cause autism. However, the fact that we use so much of the mercury derivitive in the vaccinations (it's used as a preservative and has been since 17 of 22 kids vaccinated some time back died of some sort of staph infection in the vaccines). I've never heard of autism suddenly becoming evident after a kid is past the age of 3 or 4, and I've seen no evidence of it in my kids, so I'm honestly just not that worried about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda.#
Click to expand...


Ah. The radiologist. 

Autism Blog - Dr David Ayoub - Hidden Agenda and Stone Cold Certainty « Left Brain/Right Brain


----------



## THE LIGHT

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?
> 
> 
> 
> how DARE you use common sense and reason
Click to expand...

 
Common sense such as ignoring the facts presented by doctors.


----------



## Emma

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?
> 
> 
> 
> how DARE you use common sense and reason
Click to expand...


Silly me.


----------



## Emma

THE LIGHT said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?
> 
> 
> 
> how DARE you use common sense and reason
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Common sense such as ignoring the facts presented by doctors.
Click to expand...


They presented no 'facts'. And Ayoub is a nutcase conspiracy theorist and _radiologist_.


----------



## THE LIGHT

Emma said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the whole thing but at 1:40 - 2:20 he talks about the CDC admitting that there is irrefutable evidence of a link between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just link to the CDC page where they do so. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also here is another doctor admiting that the two are linked...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not an infectious disease expert, for one. And he also claims squalene is used in US vaccines. It is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The California Department of Developmental Services in 1999 put out a report in which they stated that there was a 273% increase in autism since 1960. *Flu vaccines have been around since the 1940's so go figure. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?
Click to expand...

 

For the simple minded, oh, to pick one at random, when you have people such as Obama's science czar, John Holdren, claiming to want "forced abortions" and wanting to taint our water supply, it doesn't take even a pea brain to figure that one out. Things start adding up.

But go ahead and get the shots. I don't care. Just don't "force" it on me.


----------



## DiveCon

THE LIGHT said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the whole thing but at 1:40 - 2:20 he talks about the CDC admitting that there is irrefutable evidence of a link between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you just link to the CDC page where they do so. Thanks.
> 
> That is not an infectious disease expert, for one. And he also claims squalene is used in US vaccines. It is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The California Department of Developmental Services in 1999 put out a report in which they stated that there was a 273% increase in autism since 1960. *Flu vaccines have been around since the 1940's so go figure. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> For the simple minded, oh, to pick one at random, when you have people such as Obama's science czar, John Holdren, claiming to want "forced abortions" and wanting to taint our water supply, it doesn't take even a pea brain to figure that one out. Things start adding up.
> 
> But go ahead and get the shots. I don't care. Just don't "force" it on me.
Click to expand...

who is forcing it on you?


----------



## geauxtohell

AllieBaba said:


> There's no proof flu shots cause autism.



But there is a lot of proof that they *don't* cause autism.


----------



## THE LIGHT

Emma said:


> That is not an infectious disease expert, for one. And he also claims squalene is used in US vaccines. *It is not.*


 
According to you. But according to Meryl Nass, M.D (The AnthraxVaccine.org Homepage) Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine 

"A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of *squalene-containing adjuvants* to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities."

Silly me for letting facts get in the way.


----------



## geauxtohell

THE LIGHT said:


> YouTube - Doctor Admits Vaccine Is More Deadly Than Swine Flu Itself & Will Not Give It To His Kids



Holtorf's claims of being an "infectious disease" expert are fraudulent.  Other than that, ironic that Dr. Holtorf is concerned about scientific scrutiny of the flu vaccine, but unconcerned about the utter lack of scientific scrutiny over his bread and butter "bioidentical" products. 




> The California Department of Developmental Services in 1999 put out a report in which they stated that there was a 273% increase in autism since 1960. Flu vaccines have been around since the 1940's so go figure.
> 
> http://www.dds.ca.gov/Autism/docs/autism_report_1999.pdf



You realize that autism was only recognized as a separate condition in the late 60's.  Just maybe that is why the incidence has skyrocketed.

Just saying....


----------



## geauxtohell

THE LIGHT said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Go figure. If vaccines cause autism, why weren't we seeing this increase in the 40's and 50's? And the increase since '60? Could it be... oh I don't know... better diagnostics and increased awareness on the part of both parents and providers?
> 
> 
> 
> how DARE you use common sense and reason
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Common sense such as ignoring the facts presented by doctors.
Click to expand...


For every outlier you produce, there are a gajillion Drs. that disagree.  

If you want to turn this into a simple mass effect argument, you are in a lopsided fight.


----------



## THE LIGHT

geauxtohell said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> how DARE you use common sense and reason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Common sense such as ignoring the facts presented by doctors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For every outlier you produce, there are a gajillion [sic] Drs. that disagree.
> 
> If you want to turn this into a simple mass effect argument, you are in a lopsided fight.
Click to expand...

 
As is typical, the masses are paid off to be talking droid deniers. There usu sally are only a few whistle blowers dismissed as conspiracy nuts. So, yes, to be expected your masses of droids would win. But would they be correct? Let's not hurt our hopes we'll keep the true facts hush.


----------



## geauxtohell

THE LIGHT said:


> As is typical, the masses are paid off to be talking droid deniers. There usu sally are only a few whistle blowers dismissed as conspiracy nuts. So, yes, to be expected your masses of droids would win. But would they be correct? Let's not hurt our hopes we'll keep the true facts hush.



Ah yes, the all too typical, "all your experts are in on the conspiracy" canard.

Yes, every pediatrician practicing in Podunk, Wherever is raking in massive case in the greatest conspiracy of our age.  

The whistle blowers might gain some traction if they had any sound scientific evidence behind their claims.  It also doesn't help when you claim to be an expert in a field of medicine that you are not.  ID requires years of training past being an internist.  

You don't get to have command of the "true facts" simply because you accuse everyone else of a conspiracy.


----------



## DiveCon

THE LIGHT said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Common sense such as ignoring the facts presented by doctors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For every outlier you produce, there are a gajillion [sic] Drs. that disagree.
> 
> If you want to turn this into a simple mass effect argument, you are in a lopsided fight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As is typical, the masses are paid off to be talking droid deniers. There usu sally are only a few whistle blowers dismissed as conspiracy nuts. So, yes, to be expected your masses of droids would win. But would they be correct? Let's not hurt our hopes we'll keep the true facts hush.
Click to expand...

i call Occam's Razor
which would be easier, to pay off the overwhelming number of doctors to support the shots, or to have a few crackpots that shouldnt be doctors in the first place?


----------



## DiveCon

geauxtohell said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is typical, the masses are paid off to be talking droid deniers. There usu sally are only a few whistle blowers dismissed as conspiracy nuts. So, yes, to be expected your masses of droids would win. But would they be correct? Let's not hurt our hopes we'll keep the true facts hush.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah yes, the all too typical, "all your experts are in on the conspiracy" canard.
> 
> Yes, every pediatrician practicing in Podunk, Wherever is raking in massive case in the greatest conspiracy of our age.
> 
> The whistle blowers might gain some traction if they had any sound scientific evidence behind their claims.  It also doesn't help when you claim to be an expert in a field of medicine that you are not.  ID requires years of training past being an internist.
> 
> You don't get to have command of the "true facts" simply because you accuse everyone else of a conspiracy.
Click to expand...

the the hell is a "true fact"?
truth is truth and fact is fact


----------



## Emma

THE LIGHT said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not an infectious disease expert, for one. And he also claims squalene is used in US vaccines. *It is not.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to you. But according to Meryl Nass, M.D (The AnthraxVaccine.org Homepage) Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine
> 
> "A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of *squalene-containing adjuvants* to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities."
> 
> Silly me for letting facts get in the way.
Click to expand...

Yeah, silly you 

* Novartis and GSK are indeed developing H1N1 flu vaccines with adjuvants containing squalene.  In fact, theyve been doing it for more than a decade  but I dont want to give away the punch line.*  Lets examine the rest of Dr. Mercolas claims first.

<snip>














Ah, but earlier I promised you a punch line. Remember this quote? 

_The U.S. government has contracts with several drug companies to develop and produce swine flu vaccines. At least two of those companies, Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline, are using an adjuvant in their H1N1 vaccine._

Novartis and GSK are indeed developing influenza vaccines containing adjuvants  *for use in Europe, where squalene containing adjuvants have been safely used for over a decade.*  The US is indeed conducting H1N1 vaccine safety and efficacy studies that include the use of adjuvants.  Given the unpredictable nature of the upcoming season and the very real potential that vaccine demand will outstrip its supply, it would be irresponsible for the US not to be prepared with a well studied contingency plan that includes possible adjuvant use.

However, it must be clearly stated that there are no adjuvants, nor have there ever been, in the US influenza vaccines.  Furthermore, barring the highly unlikely failure of the standard unadjuvanted vaccines currently in trial, the H1N1 vaccines available in the US will also be adjuvant free.

Science-Based Medicine » A Defense of Childhood Influenza Vaccination and Squalene-Containing Adjuvants; Joseph Mercolaâs âDirty Little Secretâ


You fail


----------



## DiveCon

Emma said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not an infectious disease expert, for one. And he also claims squalene is used in US vaccines. *It is not.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to you. But according to Meryl Nass, M.D (The AnthraxVaccine.org Homepage) Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine
> 
> "A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of *squalene-containing adjuvants* to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities."
> 
> Silly me for letting facts get in the way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, silly you
> 
> * Novartis and GSK are indeed developing H1N1 flu vaccines with adjuvants containing squalene.  In fact, theyve been doing it for more than a decade  but I dont want to give away the punch line.*  Lets examine the rest of Dr. Mercolas claims first.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, but earlier I promised you a punch line. Remember this quote?
> 
> _The U.S. government has contracts with several drug companies to develop and produce swine flu vaccines. At least two of those companies, Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline, are using an adjuvant in their H1N1 vaccine._
> 
> Novartis and GSK are indeed developing influenza vaccines containing adjuvants  *for use in Europe, where squalene containing adjuvants have been safely used for over a decade.*  The US is indeed conducting H1N1 vaccine safety and efficacy studies that include the use of adjuvants.  Given the unpredictable nature of the upcoming season and the very real potential that vaccine demand will outstrip its supply, it would be irresponsible for the US not to be prepared with a well studied contingency plan that includes possible adjuvant use.
> 
> However, it must be clearly stated that there are no adjuvants, nor have there ever been, in the US influenza vaccines.  Furthermore, barring the highly unlikely failure of the standard unadjuvanted vaccines currently in trial, the H1N1 vaccines available in the US will also be adjuvant free.
> 
> Science-Based Medicine » A Defense of Childhood Influenza Vaccination and Squalene-Containing Adjuvants; Joseph Mercolaâs âDirty Little Secretâ
> 
> 
> You fail
Click to expand...

Oops, those pesky facts again


----------



## Emma

DiveCon said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you. But according to Meryl Nass, M.D (The AnthraxVaccine.org Homepage) Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine
> 
> "A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of *squalene-containing adjuvants* to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities."
> 
> Silly me for letting facts get in the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Novartis and GSK are indeed developing influenza vaccines containing adjuvants &#8211; *for use in Europe, where squalene containing adjuvants have been safely used for over a decade.*  The US is indeed conducting H1N1 vaccine safety and efficacy studies that include the use of adjuvants.  Given the unpredictable nature of the upcoming season and the very real potential that vaccine demand will outstrip its supply, it would be irresponsible for the US not to be prepared with a well studied contingency plan that includes possible adjuvant use.
> 
> However, it must be clearly stated that there are no adjuvants, nor have there ever been, in the US influenza vaccines.  Furthermore, barring the highly unlikely failure of the standard unadjuvanted vaccines currently in trial, the H1N1 vaccines available in the US will also be adjuvant free.
> 
> Science-Based Medicine » A Defense of Childhood Influenza Vaccination and Squalene-Containing Adjuvants; Joseph Mercolaâ&#8364;&#8482;s â&#8364;&#339;Dirty Little Secretâ&#8364;
> 
> 
> You fail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oops, those pesky facts again
Click to expand...

Seems he wasn't being too honest in what he posted, conveniently leaving out the following from his source: 

Anthrax Vaccine -- posts by Meryl Nass, M.D.: H1N1 vaccines with novel adjuvants being developed for potential mass use

A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and Glaxo-Smith Kline is the addition of *lipid-containing adjuvants* to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities. *UPDATE: The US does not plan to use novel adjuvants in its swine flu vaccines. However, Canada and some other nations do plan to use them.* The US will retain its stockpile of approximately 150 million doses of MF59 and ASO3.

Each company has its own proprietary adjuvant, acquired in each case at high cost and intended for the high-stakes business of rapidly producing vaccines for novel pandemics or biological warfare threats.

Novartis' adjuvant is named MF59, and Glaxo's is ASO3. We know they work beautifully to strengthen vaccine efficacy. But how safe are they?

That is a very difficult question to answer. Novartis claims MF-59 has been used safely by over 40 million people. *However, FDA has not seen fit to approve even a single US vaccine that contains these novel adjuvants.*


*ETA: whoops! I just noticed he altered the quote by changing 'lipid-containing' to 'squalene-containing'. 

Now why should we believe ANYTHING he says, eh?*


----------



## THE LIGHT

DiveCon said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> For every outlier you produce, there are a gajillion [sic] Drs. that disagree.
> 
> If you want to turn this into a simple mass effect argument, you are in a lopsided fight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As is typical, the masses are paid off to be talking droid deniers. There usu sally are only a few whistle blowers dismissed as conspiracy nuts. So, yes, to be expected your masses of droids would win. But would they be correct? Let's not hurt our hopes we'll keep the true facts hush.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i call Occam's Razor
> which would be easier, to pay off the overwhelming number of doctors to support the shots, or to have a few crackpots that shouldnt be doctors in the first place?
Click to expand...

 
So are you part of the vast right wing conspiracy or not?


----------



## DiveCon

THE LIGHT said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is typical, the masses are paid off to be talking droid deniers. There usu sally are only a few whistle blowers dismissed as conspiracy nuts. So, yes, to be expected your masses of droids would win. But would they be correct? Let's not hurt our hopes we'll keep the true facts hush.
> 
> 
> 
> i call Occam's Razor
> which would be easier, to pay off the overwhelming number of doctors to support the shots, or to have a few crackpots that shouldnt be doctors in the first place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are you part of the vast right wing conspiracy or not?
Click to expand...

sarcasm is lost on you, eh?


----------



## THE LIGHT

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to you. But according to Meryl Nass, M.D (The AnthraxVaccine.org Homepage) Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine
> 
> "A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of *squalene-containing adjuvants* to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities."
> 
> Silly me for letting facts get in the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Novartis and GSK are indeed developing influenza vaccines containing adjuvants  *for use in Europe, where squalene containing adjuvants have been safely used for over a decade.* The US is indeed conducting H1N1 vaccine safety and efficacy studies that include the use of adjuvants. Given the unpredictable nature of the upcoming season and the very real potential that vaccine demand will outstrip its supply, it would be irresponsible for the US not to be prepared with a well studied contingency plan that includes possible adjuvant use.
> 
> However, it must be clearly stated that there are no adjuvants, nor have there ever been, in the US influenza vaccines. Furthermore, barring the highly unlikely failure of the standard unadjuvanted vaccines currently in trial, the H1N1 vaccines available in the US will also be adjuvant free.
> 
> Science-Based Medicine » A Defense of Childhood Influenza Vaccination and Squalene-Containing Adjuvants; Joseph Mercolaâs âDirty Little Secretâ
> 
> 
> You fail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oops, those pesky facts again
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seems he wasn't being too honest in what he posted, conveniently leaving out the following from his source:
> 
> Anthrax Vaccine -- posts by Meryl Nass, M.D.: H1N1 vaccines with novel adjuvants being developed for potential mass use
> 
> A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and Glaxo-Smith Kline is the addition of *lipid-containing adjuvants* to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities. *UPDATE: The US does not plan to use novel adjuvants in its swine flu vaccines. However, Canada and some other nations do plan to use them.* The US will retain its stockpile of approximately 150 million doses of MF59 and ASO3.
> 
> Each company has its own proprietary adjuvant, acquired in each case at high cost and intended for the high-stakes business of rapidly producing vaccines for novel pandemics or biological warfare threats.
> 
> Novartis' adjuvant is named MF59, and Glaxo's is ASO3. We know they work beautifully to strengthen vaccine efficacy. But how safe are they?
> 
> That is a very difficult question to answer. Novartis claims MF-59 has been used safely by over 40 million people. *However, FDA has not seen fit to approve even a single US vaccine that contains these novel adjuvants.*
> 
> 
> *ETA: whoops! I just noticed he altered the quote by changing 'lipid-containing' to 'squalene-containing'. *
> 
> *Now why should we believe ANYTHING he says, eh?*
Click to expand...

 
Thanks for the update.


----------



## Emma

THE LIGHT said:


> Thanks for the update.


Why did you lie?


----------



## DiveCon

Emma said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you lie?
Click to expand...

i dont think he lied so much as believed the liars
his sources are not exactly honest


----------



## Emma

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you lie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i dont think he lied so much as believed the liars
> his sources are not exactly honest
Click to expand...

Oh, it's not just that. He left out what immediately followed what he quoted AND altered the quote, inserting "squalene" in place of "lipid". 


i.e.  he _lied_


----------



## geauxtohell

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you lie?
> 
> 
> 
> i dont think he lied so much as believed the liars
> his sources are not exactly honest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, it's not just that. He left out what immediately followed what he quoted AND altered the quote, inserting "squalene" in place of "lipid".
> 
> 
> i.e.  he _lied_
Click to expand...


Ouch. 

*That's* gonna leave a mark.


----------



## DiveCon

geauxtohell said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont think he lied so much as believed the liars
> his sources are not exactly honest
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it's not just that. He left out what immediately followed what he quoted AND altered the quote, inserting "squalene" in place of "lipid".
> 
> 
> i.e.  he _lied_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> *That's* gonna leave a mark.
Click to expand...

and it should


----------



## geauxtohell

DiveCon said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it's not just that. He left out what immediately followed what he quoted AND altered the quote, inserting "squalene" in place of "lipid".
> 
> 
> i.e.  he _lied_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> *That's* gonna leave a mark.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and it should
Click to expand...


Hey, where did he go?

"Run away!!!!"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCI18qAoKq4]YouTube - Monty Python Bunny Scene[/ame]


----------



## feudal22

This question is always on my mind and I think this is the best place to ask it.
Guys, is there any medicine (tablet, pill, capsule etc) for H1N1 disease?
I mean medicine, not a vaccine.


----------



## geauxtohell

feudal22 said:


> This question is always on my mind and I think this is the best place to ask it.
> Guys, is there any medicine (tablet, pill, capsule etc) for H1N1 disease?
> I mean medicine, not a vaccine.



As far as viruses are concerned, there aren't a lot of good options for medical treatment.  The ones that are out there mainly work by screwing up the DNA replication processes of the viruses or another facet of it's reproductive cycle.  However, since viruses mutate so easily, they quickly become resistant to them.

As far as the flu (any flu) is concerned, there are a couple of medications (i.e. Tamiflu) that  you can take that can shorten the duration/severity of the flu but you have to take them within 48 hours of being symptomatic to work.


----------



## RodISHI

THE LIGHT said:


> Some more important info on flu shots. Before you get one you may want to consider...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. An "informal" [e.g., illegal] clinical trial of the Avian Flu vaccine on about 200 Polish vagrants resulted in 11 immediate deaths and an additional set of 20 later deaths (approximately 15% of the test population). The doctors and nurses involved were charged with murder. (Fact. 2008)
> 
> 2. The Philippine High Court convicted WHO (The World Health Organization) of involuntarily sterilizing over 3 million Philippina women through the use of vaccines. (Fact)
> 
> 3. The WHO in 1985 documented that one of its' primary goals for the use of a sterility vaccine disguised as a smallpox vaccine was to "eliminate 150 million excess Sub Saharan Africans". (Fact, 1985-ongoing)
> 
> 4. The WHO 5-shot vaccine programs for tetanus in third world countries in South and Central America caused the involuntary sterilization of millions of women. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 5. Monsanto's MON 810 corn causes sterility according to studies published by the Austrian Government. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 6. Monsanto's MON 810 corn contains the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus which, when ingested, lowers the bodies CD 4 cells to a point which, on immune tests, indicate that a person has HIV/AIDS. The lowered CD 4 cells results from eating GMO corn, the staple of the diet in many parts of Black Africa. MON 810 is grown in Europe for animal feed and in many places, including the US, around the world for human food. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 7. Merck's Gardasil vaccine causes death, collapse and chronic illness in young woman and girls, including a new, never-before described "disease" called Juvenile ALS, a fatal condition in which the nervous system is slowly destroyed while consciousness remains unimpaired. This vaccine increases cervical cancer by 44.7% in women and girls who already have Human Papilloma Virus. Cervical Cancer is easily detected and cured in early stages and is not a major killer of women. Gardasil contains substances which may cause sterility in women receiving it and any protection lasts only a few years, so 9 year olds will probably not be sexually active by the time this protection has worn off. (Fact, ongoing)
> 
> 8. Baxter International Inc. was in the process of applying for a contract to provide Avian Flu vaccines to European countries in the event of an Avian Flu epidemic. Its Austrian laboratory shipped Seasonal Flu vaccines to 18 countries in Europe. A laboratory technician tested the Baxter Seasonal Flu vaccines sent to the Czech Republic and discovered that they were contaminated with a highly pathogenic version of the Avian Flu, 72 Kilograms of it, although Level 3 precautions were in place and such contamination "could not have happened accidentally" according to experts in the field. No documentation of the destruction of this highly infective material has been provided although the Austrian Health Ministry insists that the deadly viral material was destroyed. (Fact, 2008, 2009)
> 
> 9. It normally takes a minimum of 12 to 18 months to create a vaccine after a specific virus has been identified. (Fact)
> 
> 10. The "Seed Culture" for the Swine Flu virus was provided to vaccine companies in May, 2009. Baxter International Inc. announced in June, 2009 that they would have their vaccine ready in July, 2009 . (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 11. The US Government has spent more than a billion dollars to develop and to make available the Swine flu vaccine for a disease which poses no significant health threat. (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 12. *A significant number of virologists and other scientists are on record stating that the Swine Flu was created in a laboratory and could not evolve naturally.* (Fact, 2009)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.htmlhttp://www.whale.to/vaccine/ayoub_v.html
> http://www.whale.to/a/cousens1.html
Click to expand...


Came across this site it has a little history on spanish flu of 1918 live virus being dug up(2003). 
Lab Origins of 2009 Novel Swine Flu

It does seem odd that Norvartis's patent was approved Feb. 2009 and this outbreak started in April 2009  http://labvirus.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/novartispatent.pdf


----------



## survivalsupply

Seasonal (or common) flu is a respiratory illness that can be transmitted person to person. Most people have some immunity, and a vaccine is available.

Novel H1N1 flu is a new influenza virus causing illness in people. This new virus was first detected in the U.S. in April 2009, and has spread to many countries around the world.


----------



## survivalsupply

feudal22 said:


> This question is always on my mind and I think this is the best place to ask it.
> Guys, is there any medicine (tablet, pill, capsule etc) for H1N1 disease?
> I mean medicine, not a vaccine.



The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends the use of oseltamivir (brand name Tamiflu ®) or zanamivir (brand name Relenza ®) for the treatment and/or prevention of infection with swine influenza viruses. These are prescription drugs, so consult your physician.


----------



## THE LIGHT

> The Truth About the Flu Shot
> Sherri Tenpenny, DO [FONT=Arial, Geneva, sans-serif]&#12288; Whats in the regular flu shot?
> 
> 
> Egg proteins: including avian contaminant viruses
> Gelatin: can cause allergic reactions and anaphylaxis are usually associated with sensitivity to egg or gelatin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polysorbate 80 (Tween80): can cause severe allergic reactions, including
> anaphylaxis. Also associated with inferility in female mice.
> 
> Formaldehyde: known carcinogen
> Triton X100: a strong detergent
> Sucrose: table sugar
> Resin: known to cause allergic reactions
> Gentamycin: an antibiotic
> Thimerosal: mercury is still in multidose flu shot vials
> ​​​​
> [/FONT]
> ​​




The Truth about the Flu Shot​


----------



## AllieBaba

I've gotten flu shots off and on all my life. 

I haven't had any problems with sterility....


----------



## THE LIGHT

AllieBaba said:


> I've gotten flu shots off and on all my life.
> 
> I haven't had any problems with sterility....


 
Some people have survived after jumping out of a multi-story building. That doesn't mean that it is a statistically smart thing to do. Everyone has to make the choice for themselves. I'm just listing the facts. 

Evel Knievel was successful at what he did; I just wouldn't recommend forcing his lifestyle on everyone, nor would I probably recommend it to anyone on an idividual basis either.


----------



## AllieBaba

I think it's a statistically smart thing to get a flu shot.


----------



## THE LIGHT

AllieBaba said:


> I think it's a statistically smart thing to get a flu shot.


 
Based on?


----------



## DiveCon

AllieBaba said:


> I think it's a statistically smart thing to get a flu shot.


especially if you either have or are around kids


kids are germ magnets


----------



## RodISHI

> Millions of H1N1 vaccine doses may have to be discarded
> 
> washingtonpost.com
> By Rob Stein
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Thursday, April 1, 2010
> 
> Despite months of dire warnings and millions in taxpayer dollars, less than half of the 229 million doses of H1N1 vaccine the government bought to fight the pandemic have been administered -- leaving an estimated 71.5 million doses that must be discarded if they are not used before they expire.
> 
> Between 81 million and 91 million doses of swine flu vaccine were injected into peoples' arms or squirted up their noses through the end of February, according to federal officials, leaving about 138 million doses unused. An estimated 60 million of those will be donated to poor countries or saved for possible future use. But doses already in vials and syringes will be thrown away if not used before their expiration dates pass.
> 
> The prospect of millions of doses of the once-precious vaccine being discarded is the latest twist in the $1.6 billion program -- the most ambitious immunization campaign in U.S. history. The government-led effort produced a vaccine in record time, but unexpected production problems delayed delivery of the bulk of supplies until after the second wave of infections had peaked, leaving millions anxious and frustrated as they scrambled for the shots and nasal sprays.


Page2


> .......The World Health Organization, meanwhile, faces mounting charges that it overreacted to the pandemic. The Council of Europe's Parliamentary Assembly is investigating allegations that the Geneva-based arm of the United Nations was influenced by pharmaceutical companies to exaggerate the risk, thereby helping in vaccine sales.
> 
> WHO officials have strongly disputed the charges, saying the response was vital given the uncertainty about the new virus and its potential threat. Many independent public health experts have defended the agency.................




Dr True Ott PhD ND Connecting the DOTS Globalist PLANNED GLobal GENOCIDAL PLAGUES with Controlled Demolition of WORLD Economies !!  LABVIRUS.COM

First A/H1N1 flu case detected in Chile's earthquake devastated zone




> Key Flu Indicators
> 
> April 2, 2010, 11:00 AM
> 
> Each week CDC analyzes information about influenza disease activity in the United States and publishes findings of key flu indicators in a report called FluView. During the week of March 21-27, 2010, nationally most key flu indicators remained about the same as during the previous week; however, increasing activity has been reported in certain areas. Below is a summary of the most recent key indicators:
> 
> * Visits to doctors for influenza-like illness (ILI) remained stable and relatively low nationally. However, ILI is also looked at by region, and one of 10 U.S. regions, region 9, reported elevated ILI for the week ending March 27. Region 9 is comprised of Arizona, California, Hawaii and Nevada. (Last week, regions 4, 7 and 9 had elevated ILI.)
> * Laboratory-confirmed hospitalizations rates have leveled off and very few hospitalizations were reported by states during the week ending March 27; however, some states in the Southeast are reporting recent increases in the number of flu-related hospitalizations.
> ** The proportion of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) based on the 122 Cities Report increased over last week and is now above baseline. One flu-related pediatric death was reported this week, and it was associated with 2009 H1N1. Since April 2009, CDC has received reports of 333 laboratory-confirmed pediatric deaths: 279 due to 2009 H1N1, 52 pediatric deaths that were laboratory confirmed as influenza A, but the flu virus subtype was not determined, and two pediatric deaths that were associated with seasonal influenza viruses. (Laboratory-confirmed deaths are thought to represent an undercount of the actual number. CDC has provided estimates about the number of 2009 H1N1 cases and related hospitalizations and deaths).*
> * No states reported widespread influenza activity. Three states reported regional influenza activity. They are: Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina. Local and regional flu activity has been sustained in the Southeast United States over the past several weeks.
> * The majority of the influenza viruses identified so far continue to be 2009 H1N1 influenza A viruses. These viruses remain similar to the virus chosen for the 2009 H1N1 vaccine and remain susceptible to the antiviral drugs oseltamivir and zanamivir with rare exception.
> 
> *All data are preliminary and may change as more reports are received.


----------



## THE LIGHT

DiveCon said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a statistically smart thing to get a flu shot.
> 
> 
> 
> especially if you either have or are around kids
> 
> 
> kids are germ magnets
Click to expand...

 
Schools are germ breeding grounds, yet parents continue to send their children to school. 

Chip and dip sampling platters at supermarkets are germ bins, yet people continue to eat out of them.

Seriously, DC, People do what they want to do, not because it is rational, but because it is what they feel simplifies their lives. People want the easy road. And often that road has more problems than the fixes they saw at first sight. Flue vaccines are just one of those cases.


----------



## RodISHI

> Pharma Planning to Dump Experimental and Controversial Vaccines in Public Schools
> Monday, March 29, 2010 by: Jeffry John Aufderheide
> 
> (NaturalNews) The golden calf of public health was smashed in this recent flu season as many in the United States outright rejected the H1N1 vaccine. Pharmaceutical companies are now holding the bag, as millions of doses of the vaccine are rotting on shelves or being discarded as hazardous waste. Or are they? The manufacturer may find it more cost effective to dump them into the arms of our public school systems.
> 
> Parents would revolt if they knew that the pharmaceutical industry, the Department of Health and Human Services, and Centers for Disease Control have allocated millions of dollars in funding to establish vaccine clinics in the public schools. Pumping children with experimental vaccines in public school is about to be pursued as a matter of policy........Pharma Planning to Dump Experimental and Controversial Vaccines in Public Schools






> Rotarix vaccine banned by UAE | vactruth.com
> Kamilah Qasimi
> TopNews Arab Emirates
> 03/25/2010
> On Wednesday, Dr Amin Al-Amiri, CEO for Medical Practice and Licensing at the Ministry announced the UAE Ministry of Health has taken the decision to suspend utilization of GlaxoSmithKlines Rotarix vaccine for some time. The vaccine was found to be impure with extraneous viral DNA bits from the porcine circovirus 1 (or PVC1).
> Diarrhea, Fever, Vaccine Snafus, Vomiting
> Rotarix vaccine banned by UAE............



Revenues from global vaccine market register UD$27 Billion | vactruth.com

Vaccines-Cervarix, Gardasil, Death, And Extreme Side Effects | vactruth.com
Toyota 52 Deaths, Gardasil 49. Toyota Recalled. | vactruth.com
Baby Vaccine Apparently Tainted with Pig Virus | vactruth.com

*Pharma Planning to Dump Experimental and Controversial Vaccines in Public Schools | vactruth.com*

vactruth.com | vaccination & immunization website


----------



## DiveCon

THE LIGHT said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a statistically smart thing to get a flu shot.
> 
> 
> 
> especially if you either have or are around kids
> 
> 
> kids are germ magnets
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Schools are germ breeding grounds, yet parents continue to send their children to school.
> 
> Chip and dip sampling platters at supermarkets are germ bins, yet people continue to eat out of them.
> 
> Seriously, DC, People do what they want to do, not because it is rational, but because it is what they feel simplifies their lives. People want the easy road. And often that road has more problems than the fixes they saw at first sight. Flue vaccines are just one of those cases.
Click to expand...

fine, you can choose to do what you wish
i have never said anything other than that
but dont start fear rumors that its some nefarious conspiracy to kill people

and thats not saying YOU personally were


----------



## KissMy

It is strange that Walgreen's blamed a weak flu season for bad 1rst quarter earnings.


----------



## THE LIGHT

DiveCon said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> especially if you either have or are around kids
> 
> 
> kids are germ magnets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schools are germ breeding grounds, yet parents continue to send their children to school.
> 
> Chip and dip sampling platters at supermarkets are germ bins, yet people continue to eat out of them.
> 
> Seriously, DC, People do what they want to do, not because it is rational, but because it is what they feel simplifies their lives. People want the easy road. And often that road has more problems than the fixes they saw at first sight. Flue vaccines are just one of those cases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fine, you can choose to do what you wish
> i have never said anything other than that
> but dont start fear rumors that its some nefarious conspiracy to kill people
> 
> and thats not saying YOU personally were
Click to expand...

 
It isn't a rumor, it's a reality. Probably couldn't nail down who is doing what since politicians are as slippery as jello (yep you know the phrase), but the idea exists. Yes, I believe that there are the useful idiots out there that truly believe what they are doing is good. Fortunately there are some who recover from useful idiot syndrome such as John Stossel. So there is hope for those out there who are suffering from such an ailment. (**Note: you don't have to check with your doctor to be cured of this**)

I wish I could choose what I wish, but the government wont' let me. And that is a FACT!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a5vf9YeDzc&feature=related"]YouTube - Pelosi - We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what is in it[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon

the light said:


> divecon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the light said:
> 
> 
> 
> schools are germ breeding grounds, yet parents continue to send their children to school.
> 
> Chip and dip sampling platters at supermarkets are germ bins, yet people continue to eat out of them.
> 
> Seriously, dc, people do what they want to do, not because it is rational, but because it is what they feel simplifies their lives. People want the easy road. And often that road has more problems than the fixes they saw at first sight. Flue vaccines are just one of those cases.
> 
> 
> 
> fine, you can choose to do what you wish
> i have never said anything other than that
> but dont start fear rumors that its some nefarious conspiracy to kill people
> 
> and thats not saying you personally were
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it isn't a rumor, it's a reality. Probably couldn't nail down who is doing what since politicians are as slippery as jello (yep you know the phrase), but the idea exists. Yes, i believe that there are the useful idiots out there that truly believe what they are doing is good. Fortunately there are some who recover from useful idiot syndrome such as john stossel. So there is hope for those out there who are suffering from such an ailment. (**note: You don't have to check with your doctor to be cured of this**)
> 
> i wish i could choose what i wish, but the government wont' let me. And that is a fact!
> 
> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a5vf9yedzc&feature=related"]youtube - pelosi - we have to pass the bill, so you can find out what is in it[/ame]
Click to expand...

o...... K........


----------



## SmarterThanHick

THE LIGHT said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a statistically smart thing to get a flu shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on?
Click to expand...


every scientific study on the topic, which prompt CBC recommendations.

let met guess: you think it's bad on a hunch?


----------



## THE LIGHT

SmarterThanHick said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a statistically smart thing to get a flu shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> every scientific study on the topic, which prompt CBC recommendations.
> 
> let met guess: you think it's bad on a hunch?
Click to expand...

 
let me guess, you think it is a hunch if it doesn't support your limited view?


----------



## SmarterThanHick

THE LIGHT said:


> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> every scientific study on the topic, which prompt CBC recommendations.
> 
> let met guess: you think it's bad on a hunch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> let me guess, you think it is a hunch if it doesn't support your limited view?
Click to expand...


No.  I think it's a hunch if it isn't supported by ANY evidence.  No, personal opinions are not evidence, no matter how important you think they are.


----------



## peach174

I look at it ths way. If they try to push something on you really hard like these shots, don't do it.
I don't get any of them and I get head colds every 10 or 12 yes or so. Those of my friends that do get them each year are sick . They get the flu and colds 3 or more times during the year.
Those of my friends that refuse the shots are not getting sick and when the do it is usually a cold and do not get sick each and every year like the ones who do have the shot.
Like I said, when anything is pushed hard and heavy onto you DON"T DO IT!!!


----------



## SmarterThanHick

This is a great example of a hunch: one person's staggeringly insignificant worldview that takes a sample population of 3 people and determines population-wide conclusions.  The fact is, large scale unbiased studies of thousands or tens of thousands of people say otherwise.  Now which is more likely to see coincidence and misleading information?  A single person with observation bias and no standardization looking at a few people? Or a blinded standardized large scale investigation?

The logic of "if people say it's really important then DONT DO IT" is just sad. But I'm sure a bunch of undereducated hicks know better than the smartest doctors and scientists in the country.


----------



## DiveCon

peach174 said:


> I look at it ths way. If they try to push something on you really hard like these shots, don't do it.
> I don't get any of them and I get head colds every 10 or 12 yes or so. Those of my friends that do get them each year are sick . They get the flu and colds 3 or more times during the year.
> Those of my friends that refuse the shots are not getting sick and when the do it is usually a cold and do not get sick each and every year like the ones who do have the shot.
> Like I said, when anything is pushed hard and heavy onto you DON"T DO IT!!!


wow, you dont seem to understand the difference between a cold and the flu
and if you only get a cold once every 10 to 12 years you are too damn lucky


----------



## saveliberty

No flu since 1976.  Don't expect to see me in the flu shot line.


----------



## geauxtohell

DiveCon said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look at it ths way. If they try to push something on you really hard like these shots, don't do it.
> I don't get any of them and I get head colds every 10 or 12 yes or so. Those of my friends that do get them each year are sick . They get the flu and colds 3 or more times during the year.
> Those of my friends that refuse the shots are not getting sick and when the do it is usually a cold and do not get sick each and every year like the ones who do have the shot.
> Like I said, when anything is pushed hard and heavy onto you DON"T DO IT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> wow, you dont seem to understand the difference between a cold and the flu
> and if you only get a cold once every 10 to 12 years you are too damn lucky
Click to expand...


It's the goofy logic the CDC and medical establishment has to deal with on a regular basis.

It's a classic catch-22.  I thought the CDC did a great job with the swine flu as far as preventative measures.  They did such a good job that people are now claiming they hyped the matter.  

If they'd done nothing and there was a massive mortality factor behind the swine flu, the same people would be screaming for their heads.

They can't win, because in the end it's not about the CDC to these people.  It's just another reason to bash the "guberment".  

Never mind that we've eradicated small pox world wide and polio here.  Never mind that neonatal meningitis rates from Haemophilus Influenzae B have plummeted.  Never mind that we can prevent deaths from rabies and tetanus now.  Never mind that we can prevent spinal meningitis.  Never mind that we are on the cusp of eradicating cervical cancer with the HPV shot.  Never mind that we have dropped pneumonia and flu mortality in the elderly.  Never mind that morbidities like sterility secondary to orchitis via a mumps infection is a thing of the past.  Never mind that we will soon eradicate chickenpox in children and thus (and even more importantly) the shingles in the elderly.

Nope.  Because healthy people on here "never get the flu", shots are unnecessary.

Of course, if you know anything about statistics, you know the power of a study and statement increases with the number of people involved.  A number of "1" is considered statistically insignificant.

I know we don't always agree, but I know you are a conservative and I appreciate your common sense on this.

As for the "I never get sick people".  Eventually you will get sick from the flu which could have been prevented from vaccination.  You won't die from it, but you aren't some sort of super-human.  You just have avoided the virus for one reason or the other.


----------



## DiveCon

geauxtohell said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look at it ths way. If they try to push something on you really hard like these shots, don't do it.
> I don't get any of them and I get head colds every 10 or 12 yes or so. Those of my friends that do get them each year are sick . They get the flu and colds 3 or more times during the year.
> Those of my friends that refuse the shots are not getting sick and when the do it is usually a cold and do not get sick each and every year like the ones who do have the shot.
> Like I said, when anything is pushed hard and heavy onto you DON"T DO IT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> wow, you dont seem to understand the difference between a cold and the flu
> and if you only get a cold once every 10 to 12 years you are too damn lucky
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the goofy logic the CDC and medical establishment has to deal with on a regular basis.
> 
> It's a classic catch-22.  I thought the CDC did a great job with the swine flu as far as preventative measures.  They did such a good job that people are now claiming they hyped the matter.
> 
> If they'd done nothing and there was a massive mortality factor behind the swine flu, the same people would be screaming for their heads.
> 
> They can't win, because in the end it's not about the CDC to these people.  It's just another reason to bash the "guberment".
> 
> Never mind that we've eradicated small pox world wide and polio here.  Never mind that neonatal meningitis rates from Haemophilus Influenzae B have plummeted.  Never mind that we can prevent deaths from rabies and tetanus now.  Never mind that we can prevent spinal meningitis.  Never mind that we are on the cusp of eradicating cervical cancer with the HPV shot.  Never mind that we have dropped pneumonia and flu mortality in the elderly.  Never mind that morbidities like sterility secondary to orchitis via a mumps infection is a thing of the past.  Never mind that we will soon eradicate chickenpox in children and thus (and even more importantly) the shingles in the elderly.
> 
> Nope.  Because healthy people on here "never get the flu", shots are unnecessary.
> 
> Of course, if you know anything about statistics, you know the power of a study and statement increases with the number of people involved.  A number of "1" is considered statistically insignificant.
> 
> I know we don't always agree, but I know you are a conservative and I appreciate your common sense on this.
> 
> As for the "I never get sick people".  Eventually you will get sick from the flu which could have been prevented from vaccination.  You won't die from it, but you aren't some sort of super-human.  You just have avoided the virus for one reason or the other.
Click to expand...

while i do agree that the CDC did over hype it, i dont think taking the flu shot is some huge government conspiracy to give you mind control or a bio-weapon deal


----------



## geauxtohell

DiveCon said:


> while i do agree that the CDC did over hype it, i dont think taking the flu shot is some huge government conspiracy to give you mind control or a bio-weapon deal



I don't think they ove-hyped it at all.  The media certainly did, but they always do.  The CDC, if you read what they were actually saying, was pretty pragmatic.

Also, this virus was bad.  I was on a rotation and doing med-surge at the time (inpatient) and the entire floor was swamped with Flu A.  We had incidents were we'd be admitting 10-15 people from the same nursing home for mini epidemics.  

In the end, the CDC's preventative measures (to include simple stuff like hygiene) could be what prevented the swine flu from becoming a big problem.  

As I said, it's ironic.  The better they do their job, the more they are accused of being sensationalists.


----------



## DiveCon

geauxtohell said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> while i do agree that the CDC did over hype it, i dont think taking the flu shot is some huge government conspiracy to give you mind control or a bio-weapon deal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they ove-hyped it at all.  The media certainly did, but they always do.  The CDC, if you read what they were actually saying, was pretty pragmatic.
> 
> Also, this virus was bad.  I was on a rotation and doing med-surge at the time (inpatient) and the entire floor was swamped with Flu A.  We had incidents were we'd be admitting 10-15 people from the same nursing home for mini epidemics.
> 
> In the end, the CDC's preventative measures (to include simple stuff like hygiene) could be what prevented the swine flu from becoming a big problem.
> 
> As I said, it's ironic.  The better they do their job, the more they are accused of being sensationalists.
Click to expand...

well, let me reiterate, the MEDIA did over hype it, likely more so than the CDC
i stand corrected


----------



## geauxtohell

DiveCon said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> while i do agree that the CDC did over hype it, i dont think taking the flu shot is some huge government conspiracy to give you mind control or a bio-weapon deal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they ove-hyped it at all.  The media certainly did, but they always do.  The CDC, if you read what they were actually saying, was pretty pragmatic.
> 
> Also, this virus was bad.  I was on a rotation and doing med-surge at the time (inpatient) and the entire floor was swamped with Flu A.  We had incidents were we'd be admitting 10-15 people from the same nursing home for mini epidemics.
> 
> In the end, the CDC's preventative measures (to include simple stuff like hygiene) could be what prevented the swine flu from becoming a big problem.
> 
> As I said, it's ironic.  The better they do their job, the more they are accused of being sensationalists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, let me reiterate, the MEDIA did over hype it, likely more so than the CDC
> i stand corrected
Click to expand...


Oh, there was definitely hype.  That's why, for matters of science, I go to the scientists and not the media.  Scientists tend to be boring and "just the facts" types.

I've got to say though, In September I got to assist on an autopsy of a young man who had died of H1N1.  I was only there for the anatomical part (working on the body and sectioning organs) so I never saw the complete report or the histological work, but we were seeing some novel pathologies in the body that scared the absolute shit out of me.  I don't want to go into too much details, but I think that this virus in the right circumstances can be every bit as virulent and dangerous as the CDC predicted.


----------



## saveliberty

geauxtohell said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look at it ths way. If they try to push something on you really hard like these shots, don't do it.
> I don't get any of them and I get head colds every 10 or 12 yes or so. Those of my friends that do get them each year are sick . They get the flu and colds 3 or more times during the year.
> Those of my friends that refuse the shots are not getting sick and when the do it is usually a cold and do not get sick each and every year like the ones who do have the shot.
> Like I said, when anything is pushed hard and heavy onto you DON"T DO IT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> wow, you dont seem to understand the difference between a cold and the flu
> and if you only get a cold once every 10 to 12 years you are too damn lucky
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the goofy logic the CDC and medical establishment has to deal with on a regular basis.
> 
> It's a classic catch-22.  I thought the CDC did a great job with the swine flu as far as preventative measures.  They did such a good job that people are now claiming they hyped the matter.
> 
> If they'd done nothing and there was a massive mortality factor behind the swine flu, the same people would be screaming for their heads.
> 
> They can't win, because in the end it's not about the CDC to these people.  It's just another reason to bash the "guberment".
> 
> Never mind that we've eradicated small pox world wide and polio here.  Never mind that neonatal meningitis rates from Haemophilus Influenzae B have plummeted.  Never mind that we can prevent deaths from rabies and tetanus now.  Never mind that we can prevent spinal meningitis.  Never mind that we are on the cusp of eradicating cervical cancer with the HPV shot.  Never mind that we have dropped pneumonia and flu mortality in the elderly.  Never mind that morbidities like sterility secondary to orchitis via a mumps infection is a thing of the past.  Never mind that we will soon eradicate chickenpox in children and thus (and even more importantly) the shingles in the elderly.
> 
> Nope.  Because healthy people on here "never get the flu", shots are unnecessary.
> 
> Of course, if you know anything about statistics, you know the power of a study and statement increases with the number of people involved.  A number of "1" is considered statistically insignificant.
> 
> I know we don't always agree, but I know you are a conservative and I appreciate your common sense on this.
> 
> As for the "I never get sick people".  Eventually you will get sick from the flu which could have been prevented from vaccination.  You won't die from it, but you aren't some sort of super-human.  You just have avoided the virus for one reason or the other.
Click to expand...


...or maybe if you had the proper risk level assigned people could trust the measure and make better decisions.  How long were we at level orange after 9/11?  Remember, people die from the shot too.  Better risk assessment please.


----------



## geauxtohell

saveliberty said:


> ...or maybe if you had the proper risk level assigned people could trust the measure and make better decisions.  How long were we at level orange after 9/11?  Remember, people die from the shot too.  Better risk assessment please.



While I agree with your larger point, how do you assign a "risk level" to an airborne virus?

It's either going to be a big frigging problem or not.


----------



## saveliberty

geauxtohell said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...or maybe if you had the proper risk level assigned people could trust the measure and make better decisions.  How long were we at level orange after 9/11?  Remember, people die from the shot too.  Better risk assessment please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with your larger point, how do you assign a "risk level" to an airborne virus?
> 
> It's either going to be a big frigging problem or not.
Click to expand...


Well, the CDC and WHO think you can.  Looks to me like you tweak that a bit and see if it works better.


----------



## THE LIGHT

SmarterThanHick said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> 
> every scientific study on the topic, which prompt CBC recommendations.
> 
> let met guess: you think it's bad on a hunch?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> let me guess, you think it is a hunch if it doesn't support your limited view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. I think it's a hunch if it isn't supported by ANY evidence. No, personal opinions are not evidence, no matter how important you think they are.
Click to expand...

 
Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.


----------



## SmarterThanHick

saveliberty said:


> Remember, people die from the shot too.  Better risk assessment please.


When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot?  It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.



THE LIGHT said:


> Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.



what are you babbling about?


----------



## saveliberty

SmarterThanHick said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, people die from the shot too.  Better risk assessment please.
> 
> 
> 
> When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot?  It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what are you babbling about?
Click to expand...


Well stupid, here's your education:

As of late November, in Canada there had been 24 confirmed cases of anaphylactic shock following vaccination, *including one death*.

Overall the safety profile of the new H1N1 vaccine is similar to that of the seasonal flu vaccine, and as of November 2009 fewer than a dozen cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome had been reported post-vaccination.[81] Only a few of these are suspected to be actually related to the H1N1 vaccination, and only temporary illness has been observed.[81] This is in strong contrast to the 1976 swine flu outbreak, where mass vaccinations in the United States caused over 500 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome and led to 25 deaths.

2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No such thing as a zero risk from flu shots.


----------



## geauxtohell

saveliberty said:


> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, people die from the shot too.  Better risk assessment please.
> 
> 
> 
> When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot?  It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...but you say one thing and do another.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what are you babbling about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well stupid, here's your education:
> 
> As of late November, in Canada there had been 24 confirmed cases of anaphylactic shock following vaccination, *including one death*.
> 
> Overall the safety profile of the new H1N1 vaccine is similar to that of the seasonal flu vaccine, and as of November 2009 fewer than a dozen cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome had been reported post-vaccination.[81] Only a few of these are suspected to be actually related to the H1N1 vaccination, and only temporary illness has been observed.[81] This is in strong contrast to the 1976 swine flu outbreak, where mass vaccinations in the United States caused over 500 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome and led to 25 deaths.
> 
> 2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> No such thing as a zero risk from flu shots.
Click to expand...


GBS didn't cause anaphylaxis.  That's an allergic reaction, but GBS is a potential complication of vaccination.  However, your odds from getting it from infection or the flu itself are much higher.  

It's an autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, so any antigenic load can trigger it.  

You are right, no medical procedure or process is without risk.


----------



## SmarterThanHick

yes.  you know when you get a shot and they ask you if you're allergic to eggs?  Well if you say "no" when you really mean "yes" and that shot has egg components in it, anaphylaxis occurs.  This has nothing to do with the influenza virus.  It's an autoimmune reaction to allergies.  So again I will ask: when was the last time someone died from a KILLED virus?

Every study has shown them to be safe, and as a result, largely outweigh the likely risk of actually getting the flu, a disease which hospitalizes over 200,000 and KILLS tens of thousands of non-immunized Americans every year. Compare that to the one case of natural selection where a person who decided to lie/forget about what they were allergic to.

Again, it's blinded people such as yourself who are incapable of assessing the greater risk from population wide evidence, and who instead draw conclusions on single incidence cases, that propagate ignorance in this country. But hey, I'm sure your GED or BA in communications has prepared you to second-guess the country's most highly educated and intelligent doctors and scientists.


----------



## saveliberty

SmarterThanHick said:


> yes.  you know when you get a shot and they ask you if you're allergic to eggs?  Well if you say "no" when you really mean "yes" and that shot has egg components in it, anaphylaxis occurs.  This has nothing to do with the influenza virus.  It's an autoimmune reaction to allergies.  So again I will ask: when was the last time someone died from a KILLED virus?
> 
> Every study has shown them to be safe, and as a result, largely outweigh the likely risk of actually getting the flu, a disease which hospitalizes over 200,000 and KILLS tens of thousands of non-immunized Americans every year. Compare that to the one case of natural selection where a person who decided to lie/forget about what they were allergic to.
> 
> Again, it's blinded people such as yourself who are incapable of assessing the greater risk from population wide evidence, and who instead draw conclusions on single incidence cases, that propagate ignorance in this country. But hey, I'm sure your GED or BA in communications has prepared you to second-guess the country's most highly educated and intelligent doctors and scientists.



We were talking about the H1N1 shot specifically.  You stated no one has died from it.  You are wrong.  Shifting the debate to a slightly different topic is not an accepted practice.


----------



## SmarterThanHick

The topic is exactly the same.  You are claiming I am misdirecting the topic of conversation when that is not the case.  Please reread geauxtohell's blurb on autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, or educate yourself with a little Wikipedia searching.


----------



## geauxtohell

SmarterThanHick said:


> The topic is exactly the same.  You are claiming I am misdirecting the topic of conversation when that is not the case.  Please reread geauxtohell's blurb on autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, or educate yourself with a little Wikipedia searching.



And GBS is typically self-limiting and can definitely be managed with IVIG with complete resolution.  Though, in a few very rare cases, it becomes a chronic, life-long, debilitating illness.  That is why "vaccine court" exists.

All in all, the hype about the dangers of vaccines for people who are not immunodeficient or other considerations (pregnant) are just that.


----------



## Emma

*The first head-to-head study comparing swine flu vaccines in Britain found that children given a shot containing a booster, or adjuvant, had a stronger immune response than those receiving one without it.*


GlaxoSmithKline's vaccine Pandemrix, containing the adjuvant AS03, was associated with more reactions than Baxter's Celvapan but experts said the somewhat higher rate of fevers and injection site irritations was not a major concern.

The use of adjuvants, which are designed to boost the body's response to a vaccine, has divided health authorities in Europe and the United States.

They were widely used in Europe last year to deal with the H1N1 swine flu pandemic. In the United States, however, officials stuck with the standard unadjuvanted formulation used in seasonal flu vaccines.

"I think this data is reassuring for countries such as the U.S. which haven't approved the use of adjuvants for influenza vaccines," researcher Dr Matthew Snape of the Oxford Vaccine Group at Oxford University said in a telephone interview.

Glaxo adjuvanted H1N1 shot scores top in children | Reuters


----------



## jessica

No matter what time of year it is, germs are everywhere and anywhere a person could visibly investigate with their eyes. And even more could be lurking where they dont check or cant see. For those who frequently leave the home or for busy families, the chances of being exposed to these germs increases greatly. Germs never take a day off, and they never go on vacation, so anyone looking to avoid germs should not let down their guard for even a second if they want to avoid getting sick.

Believe it or not, the places that people most assume are festering with germs, such as public toilets and Port-a-Potties, are actually the places you would find the least problems. At least, in comparison other areas. Elevator buttons, ATM machines, playground equipment, door handles, etc. are actually some of the prime places to find germs on the surfaces, even though they cant be seen with the naked eye.

Flu Season is Ending but Germs Are Still Everywhere


----------



## geauxtohell

jessica said:


> Believe it or not, the places that people most assume are festering with germs, such as public toilets and Port-a-Potties, are actually the places you would find the least problems. At least, in comparison other areas. Elevator buttons, ATM machines, playground equipment, door handles, etc. are actually some of the prime places to find germs on the surfaces, even though they cant be seen with the naked eye.
> 
> Flu Season is Ending but Germs Are Still Everywhere



Or a Doctor's Tie.  It's an article of clothing that goes from patient to patient and different bug to different bug and carries germs.  Any article of clothing does that, but think about this: how often does a man get his ties cleaned?   

Probably the biggest fomite out there.  Not that it stops our hospital from making us wear them on the floor. 

grumble grumble grumble.......


----------



## SmarterThanHick

true, but it's becoming increasingly more optional.  you could always go bow-tie!


----------



## kal-el

I personally would never get a flu vaccine or any other. There are several strains of the flu, and getting a flu shot DOES NOT EVER guarantee that you will never get the flu, as it cant possibly protect against every single strain. The companies that mass produce the vaccine probably just play the game of rock, paper and scissors and guess what strains will be the most prevalent the following flu season, thus manufacture a concoction of those types. Even if you do get the flu vaccine, youre only protected against the types of strains that the pharmaceutical company thinks will flourish the said season. 

Most times I would just rather let good old nature take its course. If I end up getting the flu and get real sick for three or so weeks so be it. Injecting myself with identified toxins does not outweigh the benefits of not getting the flu- and its not even an assurance that I wont!

The vaccine itself compromises your immune system in so many ways its not even funny. Do an internet search on the ingredients in the shot. Mercury Preservative Thimerosal. In 1999 the FDA decided to drop the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines; that action alone speaks volumes on its safety concern.

I am pretty certain that a person's state of mind and general outlook can help his or her health. The truth is you can pick up a cold by simply being around someone who is infected, even for a minute. When I was younger, I was a lot more satisfied then I am currently about the things I need to do in order to remain healthy, but I am older and I feel wiser, more in tune with my body; same game, different player. I am wary anytime the government wants me to do something/take something. But if someone is in a high risk group, or has a compromised immune system, ie., or any other disease that can abate your immune system, if you are elderly, and if you are a health care worker, then it might be in your best interests to get vaccinated. In that case make sure it is mercury-free. I remember the first year I refused a flu shot, everyone that was around me got sick, except I. The only negative thing is I got a bad case of runny nose that lasted months.
You see being is that these shots do not protect against every strain of the flu, you must ask yourself why should I even bother. Our bodies were designed to keep at bay and fight germs but we don't let our bodies do their job. We simply rely on synthetic chemicals and anticipate the best. Let your body do the job it was made to do. Nowadays too many people are looking for the quick-fix or the miracle pill that will solvent everything. For example, if you are stricken with a bad cold, you probably have been told to run to the pharmacy and pick up some Tylenol Cold and Flu or any other cold remedy. You might have to dose yourself with these pills for a week or two, up to three times a day. Well, you can simply take Allicin; a garlic extract once a day for about the same time and your symptoms will probably vanish faster than a prom queens virginity on prom night. With that Tylenol, theres a surplus of known side effects listed on the reverse of the package. What do you think would happen if you took the entire package of Tylenol? The result wouldnt be good, I can guarantee. Thats why you cannot go wrong with anything natural- no terrible side effects.

Theres little to no money to be made by coaxing people into taking a proactive approach to their lifestyle, instead the pharmaceutical companies spoonfeed us a campaign of disinformation, instructing us to inject our bodies with toxins, and the naïve and misinformed eat it all up with an open mouth. Its a wonder why so many people get sick. Personally, I cant fathom the concept of injecting something foreign into my body (especially if I dont need it) when we are provided so many totally natural remedies and immune builders. Many people undervalue the healing power of our bodies.

That last sentence I typed made my feel a bit hypocritical, as I am type 1 diabetic, and must take daily insulin injections. There's no way around them when your pancreas doesn't do it's job. Anywho, that's my dos centavos on the "flu shot."


----------



## AllieBaba

geauxtohell said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was the last time someone died from a KILLED vaccine shot?  It's this type of stupidity that should be avoided.
> 
> 
> 
> what are you babbling about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well stupid, here's your education:
> 
> As of late November, in Canada there had been 24 confirmed cases of anaphylactic shock following vaccination, *including one death*.
> 
> Overall the safety profile of the new H1N1 vaccine is similar to that of the seasonal flu vaccine, and as of November 2009 fewer than a dozen cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome had been reported post-vaccination.[81] Only a few of these are suspected to be actually related to the H1N1 vaccination, and only temporary illness has been observed.[81] This is in strong contrast to the 1976 swine flu outbreak, where mass vaccinations in the United States caused over 500 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome and led to 25 deaths.
> 
> 2009 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> No such thing as a zero risk from flu shots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> GBS didn't cause anaphylaxis.  That's an allergic reaction, but GBS is a potential complication of vaccination.  However, your odds from getting it from infection or the flu itself are much higher.
> 
> It's an autoimmune peripheral neuropathy, so any antigenic load can trigger it.
> 
> You are right, no medical procedure or process is without risk.
Click to expand...


This is why when you get your kids' shots, you are given a stack of papers. A release, a list of risks, and questions regarding allergies and other conditions.

You don't read the paperwork and it turns out your kid is allergic to (for example) eggs, and goes into shock, whose fault is it?


----------



## AllieBaba

geauxtohell said:


> jessica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Believe it or not, the places that people most assume are festering with germs, such as public toilets and Port-a-Potties, are actually the places you would find the least problems. At least, in comparison other areas. Elevator buttons, ATM machines, playground equipment, door handles, etc. are actually some of the prime places to find germs on the surfaces, even though they cant be seen with the naked eye.
> 
> Flu Season is Ending but Germs Are Still Everywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or a Doctor's Tie.  It's an article of clothing that goes from patient to patient and different bug to different bug and carries germs.  Any article of clothing does that, but think about this: how often does a man get his ties cleaned?
> 
> Probably the biggest fomite out there.  Not that it stops our hospital from making us wear them on the floor.
> 
> grumble grumble grumble.......
Click to expand...


Ewww...

And regarding the rest of the post, I am insane about not touching things inside public restrooms. PARTICULARLY the doors, faucets and towel machines. And soap dispensers. Yuck!


----------



## kal-el

AllieBaba said:


> I am insane about not touching things inside public restrooms. PARTICULARLY the doors, faucets and towel machines. And soap dispensers. Yuck!



Yep, even if you do roll the dice and get a flu vaccine, if you so much as turn a door nob that an infected person turned, there's a good chance you will get sick.


----------



## geauxtohell

kal-el said:


> I personally would never get a flu vaccine or any other. There are several strains of the flu, and getting a flu shot DOES NOT EVER guarantee that you will never get the flu, as it cant possibly protect against every single strain. The companies that mass produce the vaccine probably just play the game of rock, paper and scissors and guess what strains will be the most prevalent the following flu season, thus manufacture a concoction of those types. Even if you do get the flu vaccine, youre only protected against the types of strains that the pharmaceutical company thinks will flourish the said season.
> 
> Most times I would just rather let good old nature take its course. If I end up getting the flu and get real sick for three or so weeks so be it. Injecting myself with identified toxins does not outweigh the benefits of not getting the flu- and its not even an assurance that I wont!
> 
> The vaccine itself compromises your immune system in so many ways its not even funny. Do an internet search on the ingredients in the shot. Mercury Preservative Thimerosal. In 1999 the FDA decided to drop the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines; that action alone speaks volumes on its safety concern.
> 
> I am pretty certain that a person's state of mind and general outlook can help his or her health. The truth is you can pick up a cold by simply being around someone who is infected, even for a minute. When I was younger, I was a lot more satisfied then I am currently about the things I need to do in order to remain healthy, but I am older and I feel wiser, more in tune with my body; same game, different player. I am wary anytime the government wants me to do something/take something. But if someone is in a high risk group, or has a compromised immune system, ie., or any other disease that can abate your immune system, if you are elderly, and if you are a health care worker, then it might be in your best interests to get vaccinated. In that case make sure it is mercury-free. I remember the first year I refused a flu shot, everyone that was around me got sick, except I. The only negative thing is I got a bad case of runny nose that lasted months.
> You see being is that these shots do not protect against every strain of the flu, you must ask yourself why should I even bother. Our bodies were designed to keep at bay and fight germs but we don't let our bodies do their job. We simply rely on synthetic chemicals and anticipate the best. Let your body do the job it was made to do. Nowadays too many people are looking for the quick-fix or the miracle pill that will solvent everything. For example, if you are stricken with a bad cold, you probably have been told to run to the pharmacy and pick up some Tylenol Cold and Flu or any other cold remedy. You might have to dose yourself with these pills for a week or two, up to three times a day. Well, you can simply take Allicin; a garlic extract once a day for about the same time and your symptoms will probably vanish faster than a prom queens virginity on prom night. With that Tylenol, theres a surplus of known side effects listed on the reverse of the package. What do you think would happen if you took the entire package of Tylenol? The result wouldnt be good, I can guarantee. Thats why you cannot go wrong with anything natural- no terrible side effects.
> 
> Theres little to no money to be made by coaxing people into taking a proactive approach to their lifestyle, instead the pharmaceutical companies spoonfeed us a campaign of disinformation, instructing us to inject our bodies with toxins, and the naïve and misinformed eat it all up with an open mouth. Its a wonder why so many people get sick. Personally, I cant fathom the concept of injecting something foreign into my body (especially if I dont need it) when we are provided so many totally natural remedies and immune builders. Many people undervalue the healing power of our bodies.
> 
> That last sentence I typed made my feel a bit hypocritical, as I am type 1 diabetic, and must take daily insulin injections. There's no way around them when your pancreas doesn't do it's job. Anywho, that's my dos centavos on the "flu shot."



It's your health and your life.  You are correct that the flu shot is a mixture of three serotypes.  

However, consider this:  If you get three different serotypes every year your body is slowly building up an arsenal to multiple strains of the flu.  That is why it is smart to get a flu shot every year.  Even if they miss this year, they might cover the strain for next year.  

If I were a type one diabetic, I would get every vaccination possible (to include pneumococcal) as infections are a leading trigger of DKA.


----------



## SmarterThanHick

ah, another uneducated ignorant hick making things up.  let's break you down one bad idea at a time.



kal-el said:


> I personally would never get a flu vaccine or any other. There are several strains of the flu, and getting a flu shot DOES NOT EVER guarantee that you will never get the flu, as it cant possibly protect against every single strain. The companies that mass produce the vaccine probably just play the game of rock, paper and scissors and guess what strains will be the most prevalent the following flu season, thus manufacture a concoction of those types. Even if you do get the flu vaccine, youre only protected against the types of strains that the pharmaceutical company thinks will flourish the said season.


No, it can't guarantee it.  That's life.  Welcome to THE WORLD.  But it's just plain wrong to compare it to a game of rock paper scissors.  It's not a random shot in the dark.  The vaccine is developed from extensive research to pin down the right strain.  When was the last time you heard that a flu shot completely missed the upcoming strain?  I can't remember anything in recent history.



> Most times I would just rather let good old nature take its course. If I end up getting the flu and get real sick for three or so weeks so be it. Injecting myself with identified toxins does not outweigh the benefits of not getting the flu- and its not even an assurance that I wont!
> 
> The vaccine itself compromises your immune system in so many ways its not even funny. Do an internet search on the ingredients in the shot. Mercury Preservative Thimerosal. In 1999 the FDA decided to drop the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines; that action alone speaks volumes on its safety concern.


The dead virus does not compromise your immune system.  You clearly don't understand what immunocompromised patients look like if you think the flu vaccine can cause it.  High dose steroids decrease your immune system.  CANCER drugs decrease your immune system.  HIV harms the immune system.  The flu shot does not.  In fact, it's very purpose is to ramp it up, which it has effectively done for decades.

So you look at actions taken in 1999 because scientists want to just play things safe as your justification?  Well sure, that's true, they did remove that reagent.  But that only matters if you want to completely ignore all the research which has since shown the additives in the flu shot to be completely harmless.  So let's put things on the scale:
You: 1999 concern with no data to support it, but scientists playing it safe and asking questions later.
Me: studies asking the questions later which irrefutably show the chemicals to be harmless
Starting to get the picture?



> You see being is that these shots do not protect against every strain of the flu, you must ask yourself why should I even bother. Our bodies were designed to keep at bay and fight germs but we don't let our bodies do their job. We simply rely on synthetic chemicals and anticipate the best.


Our bodies were "designed" to die before age 40.  We've double lifespan based on those "synthetic chemicals".  When you get an infection that doesn't resolve on its own, do you similarly say "oh well, I'll just let my body do what it was designed to do"?  How bout if you break a bone?  You don't go to a doctor and use modern medicine?  I'm interested in just how stupid you really are. Because my guess is that you talk crap until something bad actually befalls you, and then go running for all the "synthetic chemicals" you can get to make you better.



> Thats why you cannot go wrong with anything natural- no terrible side effects.


"Alternative medicine has either been not been proved to work, or been proved not to work.  You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?  MEDICINE."
Aspirin, one of those nasty chemicals you hate so much, is made from the bark of the willow tree.  Medicine does not dismiss natural remedies.  It just dismissed bullshit.



> That last sentence I typed made my feel a bit hypocritical, as I am type 1 diabetic, and must take daily insulin injections. There's no way around them when your pancreas doesn't do it's job. Anywho, that's my dos centavos on the "flu shot."


Maybe you should let your body do what it was "designed" to do and die?  No?  That's what I thought.  Now shut up and let people keep themselves healthy by preventing disease with immunization that has been proven to work and proven to largely outweigh the risks of going without it.


----------



## saveliberty

I think flu vaccine should be left to those who need it most.  The elderly and young should have first choice.  I have not had the flu in 35 years.  My body has effective defenses against it.  Why waste a shot on me?  Of course, if you are really concerned about my health, please refrain from smoking around me.


----------



## spirowilliam

I have read description about the seasonal flu and H1N1 vaccination recommendations. I like your work. I have read that description. I am really appreciated for your valuable knowledge.


----------



## Toro

spirowilliam said:


> I have read description about the seasonal flu and H1N1 vaccination recommendations. I like your work. I have read that description. I am really appreciated for your valuable knowledge.



spammer

ban this fucker


----------



## geauxtohell

SmarterThanHick said:


> "Alternative medicine has either been not been proved to work, or been proved not to work.  You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?  MEDICINE."
> Aspirin, one of those nasty chemicals you hate so much, is made from the bark of the willow tree.  Medicine does not dismiss natural remedies.  It just dismissed bullshit.



LMAO.  I had to do an "alternative medicine" project on a rotation and I wanted to stab myself in the eye.

I am not a fan of big pharma, but at least they are held to standards to prove their drugs work and are safe (yes, haters, I am aware that bad drugs still make it through the process).  

Contrast that with "alternative" medicine, where you can sell someone horse crap as long as you are vague about what it can do and slap the magic two sentences on it and you can set up shop.

People flip out when fen-fen goes on the market, but they'll readily down Kava because it's "natural" even though it has a nasty tendency to send people into hepatic failure.  If a brand drug did that, it would be pulled from the market and the pharmaceuticals would be paying damages through the nose.  However, you can still get Kava.  

To make matters worse "alternative medicine" vendors and the atrocity on wheels known as "N.D.'s" constantly avoid any double blinded controlled studies because they know their products are not going to live up to their claims.

If I had my way, they would all have "DOES NOT BEAT PLACEBO" stamped across their labels in red letters.


----------



## DiveCon

geauxtohell said:


> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Alternative medicine has either been not been proved to work, or been proved not to work.  You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?  MEDICINE."
> Aspirin, one of those nasty chemicals you hate so much, is made from the bark of the willow tree.  Medicine does not dismiss natural remedies.  It just dismissed bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO.  I had to do an "alternative medicine" project on a rotation and I wanted to stab myself in the eye.
> 
> I am not a fan of big pharma, but at least they are held to standards to prove their drugs work and are safe (yes, haters, I am aware that bad drugs still make it through the process).
> 
> Contrast that with "alternative" medicine, where you can sell someone horse crap as long as you are vague about what it can do and slap the magic two sentences on it and you can set up shop.
> 
> People flip out when fen-fen goes on the market, but they'll readily down Kava because it's "natural" even though it has a nasty tendency to send people into hepatic failure.  If a brand drug did that, it would be pulled from the market and the pharmaceuticals would be paying damages through the nose.  However, you can still get Kava.
> 
> To make matters worse "alternative medicine" vendors and the atrocity on wheels known as "N.D.'s" constantly avoid any double blinded controlled studies because they know their products are not going to live up to their claims.
> 
> If I had my way, they would all have "DOES NOT BEAT PLACEBO" stamped across their labels in red letters.
Click to expand...

and sometimes so called "bad drugs" are better than the alternative
just that the patients need to be made aware of that


----------



## geauxtohell

DiveCon said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Alternative medicine has either been not been proved to work, or been proved not to work.  You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?  MEDICINE."
> Aspirin, one of those nasty chemicals you hate so much, is made from the bark of the willow tree.  Medicine does not dismiss natural remedies.  It just dismissed bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO.  I had to do an "alternative medicine" project on a rotation and I wanted to stab myself in the eye.
> 
> I am not a fan of big pharma, but at least they are held to standards to prove their drugs work and are safe (yes, haters, I am aware that bad drugs still make it through the process).
> 
> Contrast that with "alternative" medicine, where you can sell someone horse crap as long as you are vague about what it can do and slap the magic two sentences on it and you can set up shop.
> 
> People flip out when fen-fen goes on the market, but they'll readily down Kava because it's "natural" even though it has a nasty tendency to send people into hepatic failure.  If a brand drug did that, it would be pulled from the market and the pharmaceuticals would be paying damages through the nose.  However, you can still get Kava.
> 
> To make matters worse "alternative medicine" vendors and the atrocity on wheels known as "N.D.'s" constantly avoid any double blinded controlled studies because they know their products are not going to live up to their claims.
> 
> If I had my way, they would all have "DOES NOT BEAT PLACEBO" stamped across their labels in red letters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and sometimes so called "bad drugs" are better than the alternative
> just that the patients need to be made aware of that
Click to expand...


Yeah, I think I've told the story about the patient at our hospital who had a rare form of cancer and was set up for rads and chemo but opted to go to a "Naturalist Doctor" for treatment.  By the time they represented a year later, the mass was so large that their prognosis was terrible.  I feel for the patient (aside for the obvious reason), they put their faith in a quack and paid for it with their life.  Ironically, since homeopaths aren't regulated by any state board, there is no license to revoke for blatant malpractice.  

So tell that to Neal Boortz the next time he says Doctors shouldn't be regulated.  

Another case:  Thalidomide.  Absolutely teratogenic and the FDA did a good job of keeping it off the shelves in the 60s.  However, now it is being used in rheumatology to treat (non-pregnant patients) successfully.


----------



## THE LIGHT

SmarterThanHick said:


> what are you babbling about?


 
About things that are above your comprehension level.


----------



## SmarterThanHick

so once again, you answer a question with.......

nothing.


----------



## THE LIGHT

You prove my points so well.


----------



## uscitizen

Never had a flu shot and never will.


----------



## SmarterThanHick

THE LIGHT said:


> You prove my points so well.



yes, you having no point makes it very easy to prove


----------



## THE LIGHT

SmarterThanHick said:


> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You prove my points so well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you having no point makes it very easy to prove
Click to expand...

 
No, its just that my points are above your comprehension level.


----------



## Emeraldgreen

I often do not get the vaccinations, but I can see the benifits of getting them.


----------



## SmarterThanHick

THE LIGHT said:


> SmarterThanHick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE LIGHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> You prove my points so well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, you having no point makes it very easy to prove
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, its just that my points are above your comprehension level.
Click to expand...


You don't even understand how vaccination works.  You may want to work on that before flaunting your "comprehension level".


----------



## Jessica Blume

Nobody should get flu vaccinations.


----------



## geauxtohell

Jessica Blume said:


> Nobody should get flu vaccinations.



Why?


----------



## Loveyourbody008

I would like to know if a person who is immunodeficiency does she/ he still have to be vaccinated?


----------



## saveliberty

The vaccine is a best guess on what we will face in the coming flu season.  It may help you or it may not.  Personally, I don't flu and think the old and pregnant should have first crack at the vaccine.


----------



## geauxtohell

Loveyourbody008 said:


> I would like to know if a person who is immunodeficiency does she/ he still have to be vaccinated?



I would think it would depend on what kind of immunideficiency.  Ask a doctor.  Not an internet forum.


----------



## LAfrique

While these entities have made vaccines a requirement for some things and hope to make vaccines mandatory for mere existence, vaccines and antibiotics are nothing but willful poisoning. The best and safest way to prepare yourself against diseases and infections is to strengthen your body's natural defense system with proper nutrition and observe proper hygiene; such as frequent hand-wash. It is also wise to take ample Vitamin C (an effective anti-toxin) through foods high in Vitamin C or their natural supplements. Please, stay away from and say "NO!" to immunizations! 

For detailed information on immunizations/vaccines, conduct online search for "Death to Immunizations!" by L'Afrique. By the way, I believe Swine Flu and AIDS are the result of scientific experiment.


----------



## geauxtohell

LAfrique said:


> While these entities have made vaccines a requirement for some things and hope to make vaccines mandatory for mere existence, vaccines and antibiotics are nothing but willful poisoning. The best and safest way to prepare yourself against diseases and infections is to strengthen your body's natural defense system with proper nutrition and observe proper hygiene; such as frequent hand-wash. It is also wise to take ample Vitamin C (an effective anti-toxin) through foods high in Vitamin C or their natural supplements. Please, stay away from and say "NO!" to immunizations!



With the exception of the handwashing/hygiene comment:  utter bullshit.



> By the way, I believe Swine Flu and AIDS are the result of scientific experiment.



Shocker.


----------



## sparky

geauxtohell said:


> LAfrique said:
> 
> 
> 
> While these entities have made vaccines a requirement for some things and hope to make vaccines mandatory for mere existence, vaccines and antibiotics are nothing but willful poisoning. The best and safest way to prepare yourself against diseases and infections is to strengthen your body's natural defense system with proper nutrition and observe proper hygiene; such as frequent hand-wash. It is also wise to take ample Vitamin C (an effective anti-toxin) through foods high in Vitamin C or their natural supplements. Please, stay away from and say "NO!" to immunizations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the exception of the handwashing/hygiene comment:  utter bullshit.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


now i would think a teacher would know something about the antibiotic paradox

but then i guess time is short when you're all so bent on druggin' the kiddies with ritalin, so they're drooling mindlessly in front of the D.A.R.E. officer , eh?

~S~


----------



## waltky

Granny says it's dat plague inna end times inna Bible - we all gonna die...

*Bird flu fear as mutant strain hits China and Vietnam*
_29 August 2011 - Officials fear the virus could spread from Vietnam_


> Avian flu shows signs of a resurgence, while a mutant strain - able to sidestep vaccines - could be spreading in Asia, the United Nations has warned.  The variant appeared in Vietnam and China and its risk to humans cannot be predicted, veterinary officials said.  Virus circulation in Vietnam threatens Thailand, Malaysia and Cambodia, where eight people have died after becoming infected this year, they warned.  The World Health Organization says bird flu has killed 331 people since 2003.  It has also killed or provoked the culling of more than 400m domestic poultry worldwide and caused an estimated $20bn (£12.2bn) of economic damage.
> 
> Wild birds
> 
> 
> The virus had been eliminated from most of the 63 countries infected at its 2006 peak, which saw 4,000 outbreaks across the globe, but remains endemic in Bangladesh, China, Egypt, India, Indonesia and Vietnam.  And the number of cases has been rising again since 2008, apparently because of migratory bird movements, said the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) chief veterinary officer, Juan Lubroth.
> 
> "Wild birds may introduce the virus, but people's actions in poultry production and marketing spread it," he said.  Avian flu has in the past two years appeared in poultry or wild birds in countries that had been virus-free for several years: Israel and the Palestinian Territories, Bulgaria, Romania, Nepal and Mongolia are among those recently affected.
> 
> Mr Lubroth said the new strain had infected most parts of northern and central Vietnam and could also pose a risk to Japan and the Korean peninsula.South Korea began culling hundreds of thousands of chickens and ducks in December last year after confirming its first cases since 2008.The FAO is calling for countries to adopt "heightened readiness and surveillance" against a resurgence of the virus.
> 
> BBC News - Bird flu fear as mutant strain hits China and Vietnam


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38V_31p7jPI]Door to Door Vaccinations: Mom to Nurse, &#39;Get The F[/ame]


----------



## ibnujusup

is there any other really proven great h1n1 vaccine.... does this vaccine really work, i heard story that they are people that are being infected with some sort of weird illness when they took this vaccine.. is it normal or the government just want to cover something????


----------



## waltky

Granny tol' possum mebbe he shouldn't play with the ferrets down the road...

*Bird flu: Research row as US raises terror fears*
_20 December 2011 - A senior US health official says "not everyone needs to know how to make a lethal virus"_


> The authors of two controversial bird flu studies have reportedly agreed to a US request to redact key details after a government advisory panel suggested the data could be used by terrorists.  The papers show how a bird flu variant can pass easily between ferrets.  Editors at the journals Science and Nature say they will not agree to the redactions until they are assured the data will be accessible to researchers.  A spokesman for US health authorities said such a system was being prepared.  At least one set of scientists have already rewritten their paper in light of the recommendation, Science reports.
> 
> Albert Osterhaus told Science his team "completely disagreed" with the recommendation of the panel, the the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB).  But Mr Osterhaus, who believes the information should be made widely available, said an editorial explaining his team's "genuflection" to the panel is a condition of the paper's publication in Science.  A second research team at the University of Wisconsin, Madison is also reluctantly submitting a revised paper to Nature, a university spokesman confirmed to Science.
> 
> 'Bona fide need'
> 
> While bird flu is deadly, its reach has been limited because it is not transmissible between humans.  However, the flu virus was altered in the new studies to be passed easily between ferrets.  Those mutations mean the flu would have "greater potential" to be contagious among humans, the NSABB said in a statement on Tuesday.  The lab-created version, the board warned, represented an "extremely serious global public health threat".  The NSABB recommended that the "general conclusions" be published but that final manuscripts not include details that "could enable replication of the experiments by those who would seek to do harm".  Editors at Nature and Science said they wanted a clearer plan from the US government about how the potentially redacted data could be used by "all those responsible scientists who request it".
> 
> "Many scientists within the influenza community have a bona fide need to know the details of this research in order to protect the public, especially if they currently are working with related strains of the virus," Science editor-in-chief Bruce Alberts said.  Mr Alberts said the magazine's response would be "heavily dependent upon the further steps taken by the US government to set forth a written, transparent plan" to ensure the information can be used by scientists who request it.  "It is essential for public health that the full details of any scientific analysis of flu viruses be available to researchers," Dr Philip Campbell, editor of Nature said in a statement.
> 
> *'Critical question'*


----------



## PredFan

I've never gotten aflu shot, never will.

It's last years flu, it's no guarantee that you will be protected from THIS year's flu. It's an unnecessary medication and should be avoided.


----------



## waltky

'Stomach flu' outbreak nationwide...

*Nasty, contagious norovirus is 'everywhere' now*
_22 Feb.`12 - It has been a busy season for the "stomach flu," that nasty, highly contagious bug that has led officials from California to Washington, D.C., to close schools, issue alerts and launch massive cleaning efforts._


> The microbial culprit, norovirus, affects one in 15 Americans every year, causing sudden vomiting, diarrhea and stomach cramps that continue for a very unpleasant 24 to 48 hours, usually requiring no medical intervention.  The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta says about half of cases of food poisoning are caused by norovirus, which has gained infamy as the cause of outbreaks on cruise ships, college campuses, nursing homes and other gathering places.
> 
> This month, at least 85 students fell ill at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., plus 186 at Rider University and about 100 at Princeton University, both in New Jersey. It also has hit hundreds of students in elementary, middle and high schools, and passengers on at least three cruise ships.  "It's everywhere," says Jan Vinje of the CDC, who spoke about norovirus last week at a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. "Basically, January through April is high season for norovirus activity," he says, adding with a quip: "And now it's February  Norovirus Appreciation Month."
> 
> Norovirus is estimated to affect more than 20 million Americans every year, causing about 800 deaths, usually a result of dehydration in the very young or the elderly.  There is no vaccine and no treatment, and if you get infected by one strain, you can get walloped by another strain, or even re-infected a few months later by the one that got you first time around. People are contagious from the moment they feel ill to at least three days  and possibly two weeks  after they recover, the CDC says.
> 
> But there's hope. An antiviral medicine is in early development, and significant progress is being made toward a vaccine.  Charles Arntzen of Arizona State University, who also spoke at the AAAS meeting, reports that a vaccine could be ready in a few years. LigoCyte Pharmaceuticals of Bozeman, Mont., is testing its nasal spray vaccine in human volunteers, and a second research group, coordinated through ASU, is moving toward human trials of a slightly different nasal vaccine.  They're likely to require annual booster doses because of the potential for changes in the virus or for new strains to emerge, Arntzen says.
> 
> MORE


----------



## cblackink

Vaccines...another way for the criminal pharmaceutical machine to make more money off of people who don't need them and in some cases end up having a terrible reaction and in some cases death from them. This has just gotten out of hand, and I wish someone would put a stop to it. No wonder we have so many autistic children now and teenage girls getting sick and debilitated from Gardasil.


----------



## geauxtohell

Global H1N1 death toll may be 15 times higher than previously reported &#8211; - CNN.com Blogs


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmNBk0U5TU&feature=g-all-lik]Shocking Testimony On Vaccines - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## 1smallstep4ham

Let's drink coffee and get wasted and drink more coffee and punch things!!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Marc85

A friend of mine has Crohns disease and has been told to have it.
I don't know much about it but always assumed that every outbreak of flu is a slightly different variation from the last time and it takes a while to make the vaccine, so every vaccine you get offered is for a different strain of flu you're exposed.
I always query these things as most of them are powered by big pharma companies, not people who have our best interests at heart.


----------



## ChloeP80

I'm sceptical. If you look at that list of people who are advised to have it it doesn't leave many who don't need it. Can't help thinking it's commercially valuable for the companies who make the vaccines to have as many people take it as possible.


----------



## KissMy

2 of my cousins were vaccinated 3-4 months ago. 3 weeks ago they both came down with both strain A & B Flu according to the doctors test results. These flu shots are a scam.


----------



## waltky

Granny `fraid she gonna get the flu even though she got her flu shot...

*Flu shot doing poor job of protecting older people*
_Feb 21,`13  -- It turns out this year's flu shot is doing a startlingly dismal job of protecting older people, the most vulnerable age group._


> The vaccine is proving only 9 percent effective in those 65 and older against the harsh strain of the flu that is predominant this season, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.  Health officials are baffled as to why this is so. But the findings help explain why so many older people have been hospitalized with the flu this year.  Despite the findings, the CDC stood by its recommendation that everyone over 6 months get flu shots, the elderly included, because some protection is better than none, and because those who are vaccinated and still get sick may suffer less severe symptoms.  "Year in and year out, the vaccine is the best protection we have," said CDC flu expert Dr. Joseph Bresee.
> 
> Overall, across the age groups studied, the vaccine's effectiveness was found to be a moderate 56 percent, which means those who got a shot have a 56 percent lower chance of winding up at the doctor with the flu. That is somewhat worse than what has been seen in other years.  For those 65 and older, the vaccine was only 27 percent effective against the three strains it is designed to protect against, the worst level in about a decade. It did a particularly poor job against the tough strain that is causing more than three-quarters of the illnesses this year.
> 
> It is well known that flu vaccine tends to protect younger people better than older ones. Elderly people have weaker immune systems that don't respond as well to flu shots, and they are more vulnerable to the illness and its complications, including pneumonia.  But health officials said they don't know why this year's vaccine did so poorly in that age group.  One theory, as yet unproven, is that older people's immune systems were accustomed to strains from the last two years and had more trouble switching gears to handle this year's different, harsh strain.
> 
> MORE



See also:

*Q&A: Weighing the value of less effective flu shot*
_Feb 21,`13 - This season's flu shot seemed to do little to protect people over 65 from the worst and most dominant flu strain spreading around, a small government study found. Vaccinated people in that age group had only a 9 percent lower chance of going to the doctor with flu symptoms from the main virus than people who didn't get the shot._


> The vaccine was much better at protecting younger people.
> 
> Q: If the flu shot did such a poor job for older folks, why should they get it?
> 
> A: Government doctors and other health experts say it's better than nothing. And some scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention think it's possible that even this less effective vaccine may have lessened symptoms. But they don't know that for sure.
> 
> Q: How well did the vaccine work for younger age groups?
> 
> A: It offered "moderate" protection, the CDC says. For all ages who were vaccinated, there was a 56 percent chance of avoiding getting sick with the flu from any of the three strains in circulation. Generally a flu vaccine is considered pretty good if it's more than 60 percent effective.
> 
> Q: Why didn't the vaccine do a better job this year?
> 
> A: Scientists don't know. But it is much harder to make an effective vaccine against ever-shifting flu viruses than for diseases like measles, polio and diphtheria. Vaccines are generally 90 to 95 percent effective for those other diseases.
> 
> Q: Why was the shot especially weak at protecting older people?
> 
> A: Older, worn-out immune systems have a harder time responding to flu vaccines. Protection for those over 65 is considered good if they have a 30 or 40 percent lower chance of getting sick enough to see the doctor. This year, the vaccine provided about 27 percent protection against all three strains - but again, for the most dominant virus it was only 9 percent effective. On the upside, for people in their 50s and early 60s, protection against the worst virus was actually 50 percent.
> 
> Q: Can't we make a better vaccine?
> 
> A: Researchers are working on it. There is a higher-dose version for older people, but it's not clear how widely available it was and the study of vaccine effectiveness was too small to show whether it made a difference.
> 
> Source


----------



## waltky

New 4-in-1 flu vaccine to be available for first time this year...

*New Flu Vaccines Offer Extra Protection and More Profits*
_ September 19, 2013  Big drugmakers are seeking a boost from new four-in-one influenza vaccines that will be available for the first time this flu season._


> Offering more protection to patients, the new quadrivalent vaccines provide a route to premium pricing that could improve margins and profits in a highly competitive market.  Sanofi, GlaxoSmithKline and AstraZeneca all have products ready to tap the new opportunity, while Novartis is lagging behind its rivals.  Until now, seasonal flu vaccines have only protected against three strains of flu - two strains of influenza A, which usually causes more cases and more severe illness, and one of influenza B, which is less common but also circulates in multiple forms.
> 
> The new vaccines include protection against a second strain of influenza B, which experts expect will prevent the vast majority of type B infections.  But extra protection comes at a price. French drugmaker Sanofi, whose Sanofi Pasteur unit is the world's biggest supplier of flu vaccines, with sales of 884 million euros ($1.2 billion) in 2012, says it expects a premium of some 50 percent or more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It reflects a determination by manufacturers to move up the value chain by developing more innovative and expensive vaccines, following the recent success of novel products such as HPV shots to protect girls against cervical cancer.  Contracts struck with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirm a hefty price jump for the new four-strain flu vaccine, with GSK's quadrivalent Fluarix, for example, costing $12.03 per dose against $8.08 for the standard version, according to the agency's website.
> 
> Those price premiums may feed through to higher revenues and accelerated growth in a global flu vaccine market that research group Datamonitor Healthcare estimates at around $3.7 billion a year.  Over time, more and more shipped vaccine is likely to be switched to quadrivalent, so over a five-year period it could lift revenue growth from the low single digit to the mid-to-high single digit [percentage] range, said Alistair Campbell, an industry analyst at Berenberg Bank.  Some U.S. doctors see a more rapid take-up, with Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, predicting that only four-strain vaccines will be available within two years.
> 
> url=http://www.voanews.com/content/new-flu-vaccines-offer-more-protection-and-more-profits/1753288.html]*Price Slide*[/url]


----------



## Delta4Embassy

cblackink said:


> Vaccines...another way for the criminal pharmaceutical machine to make more money off of people who don't need them and in some cases end up having a terrible reaction and in some cases death from them. This has just gotten out of hand, and I wish someone would put a stop to it. No wonder we have so many autistic children now and teenage girls getting sick and debilitated from Gardasil.



Until I'm old and fragile, I'd rather roll the dice and take my chances with a flu than get an injection of a flu vaccine. Last time I had a flu I felt like death, chills, bed-ridden, aches, was completely floored by it. But it passed. Rather go through that again than risk a 1 in 10,000 bad dose of some shot. Unless you really really need the vaccine, the risks associated with them isn't justifiable.

Note, I'm by no means anti-vaccines. I'm just anti-believing anything the government and for-profit healthcare industry says. Many vaccines are great and beneficial, but until the chance of falling over dead is zero, unless you need the flu vaccine, skip it.


----------



## Jughead

Unfortunately it looks like the swine flu is back. Heard on the radio this morning that sadly there have already been fatalities (in Texas) related to the swine flu (H1N1).


----------



## Luddly Neddite

uscitizen said:


> Never had a flu shot and never will.



Me neither. Same with pneumonia vacs. Couldn't pay me to get either.

But, if you always get a flu vac, you should probably continue to get them. 

Reason, you've never let your body build its own immunity. As the viruses continue to mutate and get stronger you likely will have even fewer defenses. 

Just as with antibiotics, if you take them, you need them. After years of working with wild animals, I've taken way too many antibiotics. Luckily, I've been vegetarian for 30+ years.

I always make a point of asking doctors, nurses if they get either and interestingly, most say they don't.


----------



## waltky

Granny says to avoid kissin' chickens onna beak...

*New China Bird Flu a Reminder of Mutant Virus Risk*
_February 04, 2014  The death of a woman in China from a strain of bird flu previously unknown in humans is a reminder of the ever-present potential pandemic threat from mutating animal viruses, scientists said on Wednesday._


> The new strain, called H10N8, has so far infected only two people - a fatal case in a 73-year-old and another in a woman who is critically ill in hospital. But the fact it has jumped from birds to humans is an important warning, they said.  We should always be worried when viruses cross the species barrier from birds or animals to humans, as it is very unlikely that we will have prior immunity to protect us, said Jeremy Farrar, director of Wellcome Trust and an expert on flu.  We should be especially worried when those viruses show characteristics that suggest they have the capacity to replicate easily or to be virulent or resistant to drugs. This virus ticks several of these boxes and therefore is a cause for concern.
> 
> Chinese authorities last week confirmed a second human case of H10N8 which was reported for the first known time in humans in December 2013.  It has emerged as another new and often fatal strain of bird flu, called H7N9, has infected at least 286 people in China, Taiwan and Hong Kong, killing around 60 of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Health officials in protective suits transport sacks of poultry as part of preventive measures against the H7N9 bird flu at a poultry market in Zhuji, Zhejiang province
> 
> Genetic Reassortment
> 
> Chinese scientists writing in The Lancet medical journal who conducted a genetic analysis on samples of the H10N8 virus from the woman who died said it was a new genetic reassortment of other strains of bird flu viruses, including one called H9N2 that is relatively well known in poultry in China.  Somewhat worryingly, the virus - like H7N9 - has also evolved some genetic characteristics that may allow it to replicate efficiently in humans, said Yuelong Shu of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention in Beijing.  According to the scientists' study of her case, the 73-year-old victim, from Nanchang City in eastern China, was admitted to hospital with fever and severe pneumonia on November 30, 2013. Despite being treated with antibiotic and antivirals, she deteriorated rapidly, developed multiple organ failure and died nine days after her symptoms first started.
> 
> Investigations found the woman had been at a live poultry market a few days before becoming infected. But no H10N8 virus was found in samples collected from the market, the scientists said, so the source of the infection remains unknown.  Mingbin Liu from Nanchang City Center for Disease Control and Prevention added that the emergence of a second human case of H10N8 in a 55-year-old woman is of great concern because it reveals that the H10N8 virus has continued to circulate and may cause more human infections in future.
> 
> MORE


----------



## NYcarbineer

I didn't get the flu shot, got the flu last month, and it was brutal.


----------



## Darlene

I don't believe in vaccinations, period. If those chemicals were meant to be in our bodies, then we would be born with them.


----------



## Noomi

Darlene said:


> I don't believe in vaccinations, period. If those chemicals were meant to be in our bodies, then we would be born with them.



Those 'chemicals' as you call them save lives.


----------



## Darlene

xotoxi said:


> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.
> 
> These are recommendations. No one is forced to get a flu shot. No one is required to get a flu shot. None of the members of the Federal Death Panel played a role in determining these recommendations.
> 
> Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*
> 
> 
> People who should get the seasonal vaccine each year are:
> 
> Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
> Pregnant women
> People 50 years of age and older
> People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
> People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
> People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
> Health care workers
> Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
> Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2009 H1N1 Vaccine*
> 
> 
> The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:
> 
> *Pregnant women* because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
> *Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age* because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by cocooning them from the virus;
> *Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel* because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
> *All people from 6 months through 24 years of age*
> *Children from 6 months through 18 years of age* because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
> *Young adults 19 through 24 years of age* because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
> 
> *Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.*
> Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Should NOT Be Vaccinated (Both vaccines)*
> 
> 
> There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine without first consulting a physician. These include:
> 
> People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs.
> People who have had a severe reaction to an influenza vaccination.
> People who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) within 6 weeks of getting an influenza vaccine.
> Children less than 6 months of age (influenza vaccine is not approved for this age group), and
> People who have a moderate-to-severe illness with a fever (they should wait until they recover to get vaccinated.)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links...all this information is found on CDC.gov
> 
> (And finally...this thread is indended to be a PSA.  I encourage discussion and questions regarding the recommendations, but flames about the evil intentions of the medical field are not appreciated)
Click to expand...


I'm pregnant. I don't believe in vaccines.
I believe proper nutrition and lifestyle have greater advantages on your health than any man-made pharmaceutical.
Vaccines have been known to kill adults and children, but never has a healthy lifestyle been a cause for concern.
Remember: vaccines are chemicals being injected directly into your bloodstream. This bypasses all your body's defense systems that remove harmful toxins.
All these chemicals go directly to your brain, spinal cord, heart, and every organ in your body.

Consider this:
if breastfeeding occurred more often, less and less people would become sick, because they are receiving all their mother's antibodies that formula doesn't have. Breastfeeding is the biological norm, yet it is considered an inconvenience compared to formula feeding. This, however, is far from the truth.
     Breast milk is alive; formula is dead. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Breast Milk Contains Over 700 Bacteria Species
Top-Quality Breast Milk alive
Breastfeeding Benefits Your Baby s Immune System - HealthyChildren.org
Breastfeeding the Immune Response and Long-term Health
Immune factors in human milk KellyMom
The Newborn Immune System and Immunological Benefits of Breastmilk


----------



## Darlene

You may be wondering what breastfeeding has to do with allergies and the like. It has everything to do with it.
Breastfeeding May Lower Allergy Risk

Food Allergies and Breastfeeding - Allergy Center - EverydayHealth.com
Does Breastfeeding Reduce the Risk of Allergies - Intelihealth


Breastfeeding reduces the risk of allergies study suggests -- ScienceDaily


----------



## Esmeralda

/


xotoxi said:


> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.
> 
> These are recommendations. No one is forced to get a flu shot. No one is required to get a flu shot. None of the members of the Federal Death Panel played a role in determining these recommendations.
> 
> Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*
> 
> 
> People who should get the seasonal vaccine each year are:
> 
> Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
> Pregnant women
> People 50 years of age and older
> People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
> People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
> People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
> Health care workers
> Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
> Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2009 H1N1 Vaccine*
> 
> 
> The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:
> 
> *Pregnant women* because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
> *Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age* because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by cocooning them from the virus;
> *Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel* because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
> *All people from 6 months through 24 years of age*
> *Children from 6 months through 18 years of age* because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
> *Young adults 19 through 24 years of age* because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
> 
> *Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.*
> Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Should NOT Be Vaccinated (Both vaccines)*
> 
> 
> There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine without first consulting a physician. These include:
> 
> People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs.
> People who have had a severe reaction to an influenza vaccination.
> People who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) within 6 weeks of getting an influenza vaccine.
> Children less than 6 months of age (influenza vaccine is not approved for this age group), and
> People who have a moderate-to-severe illness with a fever (they should wait until they recover to get vaccinated.)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links...all this information is found on CDC.gov
> 
> (And finally...this thread is indended to be a PSA.  I encourage discussion and questions regarding the recommendations, but flames about the evil intentions of the medical field are not appreciated)
Click to expand...

Well, I'm over 50 and I can't remember the last time I had a flu shot or had the flu, or a cold.  I believe in keeping my immune system strong and avoiding germs by washing my hands regularly. I also keep disinfectant gel on my desk and carry a small one in my purse. I always wash my hands as soon as I get home. I'm not obsessive about it: it's for a purpose.  The main thing is to have a good immune system.


----------



## Esmeralda

/


xotoxi said:


> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.
> 
> These are recommendations. No one is forced to get a flu shot. No one is required to get a flu shot. None of the members of the Federal Death Panel played a role in determining these recommendations.
> 
> Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*
> 
> 
> People who should get the seasonal vaccine each year are:
> 
> Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
> Pregnant women
> People 50 years of age and older
> People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
> People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
> People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
> Health care workers
> Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
> Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2009 H1N1 Vaccine*
> 
> 
> The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:
> 
> *Pregnant women* because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
> *Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age* because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by cocooning them from the virus;
> *Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel* because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
> *All people from 6 months through 24 years of age*
> *Children from 6 months through 18 years of age* because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
> *Young adults 19 through 24 years of age* because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
> 
> *Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.*
> Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Should NOT Be Vaccinated (Both vaccines)*
> 
> 
> There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine without first consulting a physician. These include:
> 
> People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs.
> People who have had a severe reaction to an influenza vaccination.
> People who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) within 6 weeks of getting an influenza vaccine.
> Children less than 6 months of age (influenza vaccine is not approved for this age group), and
> People who have a moderate-to-severe illness with a fever (they should wait until they recover to get vaccinated.)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links...all this information is found on CDC.gov
> 
> (And finally...this thread is indended to be a PSA.  I encourage discussion and questions regarding the recommendations, but flames about the evil intentions of the medical field are not appreciated)
Click to expand...

Well, I'm over 50 and I can't remember the last time I had a flu shot or had the flu, or a cold.  I believe in keeping my immune system strong and avoiding germs by washing my hands regularly. I also keep the disinfectant gel on my desk and carry a small one in my purse. I always wash my hands as soon as I get home. I'm obsessive about it: it's for a purpose.  The main thing is to have a good immune system.


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## Delta4Embassy

Unless one of the susceptible groups like the very young, very old, first responder, or can't afford to get sick types, I'd avoid flu shots. So long as there's ANY question about their safety, why risk it.


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## Darlene

I don't believe health comes in in a pill or vial.


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## Delta4Embassy

Darlene said:


> I don't believe health comes in in a pill or vial.



Health doesn't. Cures do.


----------



## Darlene

Delta4Embassy said:


> Darlene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe health comes in in a pill or vial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Health doesn't. Cures do.
Click to expand...

But with those chemical "cures", you are more likely to fix one problem and cause another.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Darlene said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darlene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe health comes in in a pill or vial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Health doesn't. Cures do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But with those chemical "cures", you are more likely to fix one problem and cause another.
Click to expand...


Yes, but that's true of just about everything. Water's healthy for us as well, but too much can kill (water intoxication it's called.) Same with medicine proper, it's all basicly poison, a little can cure, too much will kill or harm. Key isn't avoidance, or use, but moderation.


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## Darlene

Have We Become Too Dependent On Our Medicine Cabinet Bioethics.net
Medicated Society s Dependence on Prescription Drugs


----------



## Treeshepherd

Darlene said:


> I don't believe health comes in in a pill or vial.



That's my philosophy. If anything, we have too much health care in the US. The most common reason listed for doctor visitations is to seek treatment for colds and the flu. Ridiculous. You don't need a doctor to recover from that.

My gut fauna has been evolving for 25 years. That was the last time I took anti-biotics (or saw a doctor). I haven't had perfect health during that time span, but I've let my body heal itself without chemical aid. In the long run, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger (unless you rely on constant pharmaceutical tinkering).


----------



## Muhammed

I got the flu when I was about 11 years old, then again when I was in my 20s and again when I was 30 something. 

Every time it absolutely sucked and totally put me out of commission for days as I wallowed in complete misery.

Screw that!

I got the flu shot a few weeks ago.


----------



## ChrisL

I got a flu shot because it was a requirement for a job I'm doing at the hospital.  I've never had one before.  I didn't have any kind of side effects except that my arm was a little sore that night and the next day.  I was a little concerned about it making me sick because that is one side effect, but I was fine thankfully.


----------



## rcfieldz

I got a flu shot last Thursday. No side effects.


----------



## ludhiyaparker

whatever may be the case we have to be careful and checkup regularly.


----------



## MindWars

xotoxi said:


> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.
> 
> These are recommendations. No one is forced to get a flu shot. No one is required to get a flu shot. None of the members of the Federal Death Panel played a role in determining these recommendations.
> 
> Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*
> 
> 
> People who should get the seasonal vaccine each year are:
> 
> Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
> Pregnant women
> People 50 years of age and older
> People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
> People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
> People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
> Health care workers
> Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
> Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2009 H1N1 Vaccine*
> 
> 
> The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:
> 
> *Pregnant women* because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
> *Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age* because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by cocooning them from the virus;
> *Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel* because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
> *All people from 6 months through 24 years of age*
> *Children from 6 months through 18 years of age* because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
> *Young adults 19 through 24 years of age* because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
> 
> *Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.*
> Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Should NOT Be Vaccinated (Both vaccines)*
> 
> 
> There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine without first consulting a physician. These include:
> 
> People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs.
> People who have had a severe reaction to an influenza vaccination.
> People who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) within 6 weeks of getting an influenza vaccine.
> Children less than 6 months of age (influenza vaccine is not approved for this age group), and
> People who have a moderate-to-severe illness with a fever (they should wait until they recover to get vaccinated.)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links...all this information is found on CDC.gov
> 
> (And finally...this thread is indended to be a PSA.  I encourage discussion and questions regarding the recommendations, but flames about the evil intentions of the medical field are not appreciated)
Click to expand...



Flu shots r useless,  they can't predict what virus is coming as they sell the public bs


----------



## MindWars




----------



## Fairpricerx

The journalist died of flu for 26 years, she was against vaccinations. This is a very cruel lesson.


----------



## Fairpricerx

Therefore, we need vaccinations!


----------



## MindWars

Search Results from the VAERS Database

*Found 92 cases where Location is U.S. States and Onset Interval is 1 and Patient Died and Onset Date from '2014-01-01' to '2019-12-31'*


----------



## MindWars

lmfao d.a.





Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is a disorder in which the body’s immune system attacks part of the peripheral nervous system. The first symptoms of this disorder include varying degrees of weakness or tingling sensations in the legs. In many instances the symmetrical weakness and abnormal sensations spread to the arms and upper body. These symptoms can increase in intensity until certain muscles cannot be used at all and, when severe, the person is almost totally paralyzed. In these cases the disorder is life threatening – potentially interfering with breathing and, at times, with blood pressure or heart rate – and is considered a medical emergency. Such an individual is often put on a ventilator to assist with breathing and is watched closely for problems such as an abnormal heart beat, infections, blood clots, and high or low blood pressure. Most individuals, however, have good recovery from even the most severe cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, although some continue to have a certain degree of weakness.



Oh but by this point the Obama screwballs made sure this info was probably taken down when ppl ask questions.


----------



## MindWars

Christina Marie

If you don't speak out against mandates, regardless of how you feel on vaccines, you will be part of why someone is having their death certificate signed, because you stood by while their bodily autonomy got stripped. That blood will be on your hands, and you have no idea how much blood it will be.









#RiseUp
#TheMandatesAreComing
#EveryoneDeservesChoice. — with Laura Fisher Andersen.


----------



## RodISHI

If they try to shoot up babies that mama's and pappa's who refuse to poison their children they will definitely have a small war on their hands. Lamar Alexander and the rest at that bogus hearing they held in DC concerning vaccines were totally disgusting.


----------



## MindWars

Doctors Consult Dr. Google Too

Trust those medical Gods they know it all lmfao..  SO what will the leftist stooges use now when they say " the internet said so" or Where'd you get that google lol IDIOT!!


----------



## the other mike

DiveCon said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, there was a "stimulating" discussion after the question was posed "Will you get a flu shot?"
> 
> I thought I would take this opportunity to summarize the CDC Recommendations as to whom should receive each type of vaccination: Seasonal Flu Vaccine and Novel H1N1 Vaccine.
> 
> These are recommendations. No one is forced to get a flu shot. No one is required to get a flu shot. None of the members of the Federal Death Panel played a role in determining these recommendations.
> 
> Here they are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*
> 
> 
> People who should get the seasonal vaccine each year are:
> 
> Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
> Pregnant women
> People 50 years of age and older
> People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
> People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
> People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:
> Health care workers
> Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
> Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2009 H1N1 Vaccine*
> 
> 
> The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:
> 
> *Pregnant women* because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
> *Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age* because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by cocooning them from the virus;
> *Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel* because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
> *All people from 6 months through 24 years of age*
> *Children from 6 months through 18 years of age* because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
> *Young adults 19 through 24 years of age* because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
> 
> *Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.*
> Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Should NOT Be Vaccinated (Both vaccines)*
> 
> 
> There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine without first consulting a physician. These include:
> 
> People who have a severe allergy to chicken eggs.
> People who have had a severe reaction to an influenza vaccination.
> People who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) within 6 weeks of getting an influenza vaccine.
> Children less than 6 months of age (influenza vaccine is not approved for this age group), and
> People who have a moderate-to-severe illness with a fever (they should wait until they recover to get vaccinated.)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links...all this information is found on CDC.gov
> 
> (And finally...this thread is indended to be a PSA.  I encourage discussion and questions regarding the recommendations, but flames about the evil intentions of the medical field are not appreciated)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thanks for this useful info
> 
> it wont stop the nutters that think this is some government mind control drug
> 
> but then, no amount of truth ever will
Click to expand...

So you'll be getting the vaccine, no questions asked ?


----------



## sparky

It'll only do so much good Ange

~S~


----------



## luchitociencia

30 years ago the Flu got me, but I didn't know it. I just had more than two weeks with terrible symptoms, being vomiting like drunk man the first one, and later fever and the rest of symptoms. I didn't take anything to alleviate the symptoms.

It was years later when watching the news I realized I had the Flu years early.

It was funny because after that Flu attack, I didn't catch even a cold for several years. At home my family was coughing, with running nose, even fever, sneezing, etc. and I was immune to all that. Same happened at work.

I got lucky by ignorance. lol.

But, about 10 years ago I finally catch my first cold again, but it was almost nothing. And from time to time I catch colds which are easily controlled with Mucinex. Maybe once a year.

I'm not receiving the yearly flu shots. Even when I see my health is deteriorating, I still feel strong enough to handle the flu and the current virus.

I think that for young people is better to be infected with this kind of diseases because their health is in shape and their immune system is strong.

I can tell because it happened to me and I can tell about it.

Of course, what I just say it should be the magic formula to control a disease for years, but we live in a world where elder, people with health conditions and little children share the same house, workplace, city... and their lives must be considered by all means.

My point is that it is possible that the young people who showed Corona virus positive and had no symptoms or strong symptoms, they might not worry about that disease for the next years, specially if they didn't take anything to alleviate them.

I know this is the worst advice you have read for Flu and other similar, but the pain and suffering of two weeks some decades ago allowed me to live free of worries for about twenty years of my life.


----------



## Rigby5

Fairpricerx said:


> Therefore, we need vaccinations!



Whether or not we need them, they do not work for flu.


----------



## Rigby5

Fairpricerx said:


> The journalist died of flu for 26 years, she was against vaccinations. This is a very cruel lesson.



Very few unvaccinated people die from flu anymore because everyone has already had it, recovered, and therefore already has as good of immunity as any vaccine can do.
So it is not clear the flu vaccine does any good at all.
The only advantage is if the current up and coming flu is one you have never encountered before, and the vaccine they decided to mass produce is a better immunity than what you already have.
People assume there is no recovery immunity to flu since we often seem to get it every year, but that is because there are hundreds of different viruses we collectively call flu, but they really are very different.


----------

