# Obama thinks we're all stupid.  Some of you really are.



## daveman (Oct 31, 2013)

Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.

"If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
You could keep your insurance...UNTIL the ACA became law.  Then you're screwed.

How many of you idiots are now going to say, "Yeah.  Yeah, that's what he meant!  Obviously!"

Of course, that's patently ridiculous.  He said you could keep your insurance AFTER ACA was law.


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## Mr. H. (Oct 31, 2013)

I can for a fact stay with my current provider.

I suppose it could be interpreted that I am keeping my plan and "choosing" to add provisions making it ACA compliant. But why would I choose to add maternity coverage and other required elements? We certainly don't NEED maternity. I also would NOT choose to increase my deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. I've done so in the past, but only as a means of reducing the premiums. 

So... here's what I have in front of me, from my current provider:

A policy that is ACA compliant and most closely resembles my current coverage. 

The difference? A 120% increase in premiums, and a marked increase in deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. 

For what? The same coverage? 

This whole sham has clusterfuck written all over it. Just wait until the tens of millions of people who have not yet seen for themselves what the ACA truly is actually sign up for this pile of shit program. 

I tell you I am so fucking angry I can hardly see straight. Goddamn fucking moronic asshole sorry excuse for a President. Fuck him.


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## Pickle (Oct 31, 2013)

Obama should just man up and say "okay i'm sorry".

Instead he sounds more and more like a snake oil salesman and credibility is falling faster than miley cyrus' panties, except with the ones who are completely programmed.


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## Claudette (Nov 1, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> I can for a fact stay with my current provider.
> 
> I suppose it could be interpreted that I am keeping my plan and "choosing" to add provisions making it ACA compliant. But why would I choose to add maternity coverage and other required elements? We certainly don't NEED maternity. I also would NOT choose to increase my deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. I've done so in the past, but only as a means of reducing the premiums.
> 
> ...



Yup and I've talked to folks with deductable through the roof. $13,999.00, $11,000.00 and  $12.000.00. 

I was in 7-11 the other day and the lady working there said she checked into the ACA and her costs were 200 a month and she will get subsidized. She's not happy about using other peoples money but she of course will. 

Somehow I think the only winners will be those the rest of us will be paying for. It sure as shit won't be affordable for anyone not covered by an employer. 

Don't forget those 21 tax increases in the ACA. In 2015 anything payed as a benefit will be considered income and taxed. 

Yup Affordable Health Care for All. Bullshit plus.

Its more like Affordable for Some and a shafting for the rest.


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## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 1, 2013)

Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail. 

Sure it failed everywhere and every time it's been tried, it's failing right now in Europe, it failed whenever we give Progressives control over any economy no matter how large or small from Detroit to China, but this time, this is the time it will work


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.



Tell us what your Obama Context Filter is displaying, we're not outfitted with one


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## ba1614 (Nov 1, 2013)

Pickle said:


> Obama should just man up and say "okay i'm sorry".
> 
> Instead he sounds more and more like a snake oil salesman and credibility is falling faster than miley cyrus' panties, except with the ones who are completely programmed.



Sorry for what? he apparently didn't know his signature fuck up wasn't ready.


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## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.



Speaking of idiots...

You really can't comprehend that Obama lied to you, can you?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm still waiting to hear from someone who supposedly just loooved his non-compliant policy...


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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> > I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.
> ...



Not really.  

Letter I got from my insurer. 

No changes. We are completely ACA compliant.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm still waiting to hear from someone who supposedly just loooved his non-compliant policy...



What "non-compliant" policy are you talking about?????


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=geXAzRIJc5Y]Rednex - Cotton Eye Joe 2002 Official Music Video High Quality - YouTube[/ame]


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.



So your only counter for Obama lying about ACA is to say everyone else is lying?

lol.


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## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Yay you.  But don't make the mistake of assuming that your limited experience applies to everyone.


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## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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> > I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.
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Do you pay attention? Why must I repeat myself so often for you. You in particular? It is very tiresome.


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> 
> Sure it failed everywhere and every time it's been tried, it's failing right now in Europe, it failed whenever we give Progressives control over any economy no matter how large or small from Detroit to China, but this time, this is the time it will work



All of this comes from the typical progressive mindset that 1) they know what you really want, 2) all our plans will eventually work, so any initial issues must be ignored and 3)anyone who opposes us has to be ridiculed and marginalized, even if (and especially) they are 100% correct in thier assesment of the current situation.


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


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Plus I don't believe JoeBlow as far as I can throw him.


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## Claudette (Nov 1, 2013)

Nope. Wait till those 21 tax increases take effect. He'll be paying higher premiums just like the rest of us.


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## jon_berzerk (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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and this surprises you 

how


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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Not surprised at all.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


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Actually, quite the reverse.  

Every year before ObamaCare, we got the special meeting about how this year, our insurance was going to cost us a little bit more and be a little shittier.  

And then they all got panicky about ObamaCare. 

But guess what, since ObamaCare, we stopped having those meetings.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


> So your only counter for Obama lying about ACA is to say everyone else is lying?lol.



Not easy to debate with someone _who literally doesn't mind being lied to._

How do you deal with that?

Weird.

.


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## Claudette (Nov 1, 2013)

Well the folks I talked to weren't liars. 

Someone is lying but it ain't them.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



People who have N.P.O. _do not care_.  



> We have as president a man who routinely slanders his political opponents, distorting what they believe, even as he bemoans the lack of civility in public discourse. He constantly makes assertions that are obviously untrue. And it doesnt matter to him. He keeps doing it because, at least until now, the media has given him something approaching a free pass.
> 
> I have no idea if Mr. Obama was born mendacious or whether he learned the habit somewhere along the way. What I do know is that Barack Obama is thoroughly post-modern. Words and facts have no objective standing with him; they are socially constructed, unmoored, infinitely malleable, a way to create his own reality and advance his own self-interest.
> 
> ...



The Mendacious Mr. Obama « Commentary Magazine


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> ...



It's more devious than that.

About the only people signing up for the disaster called obamacare are Medicaid types.

For now.  Had the government not killed most of the Individual Plans in America, very few Healthy people would sign up for obamacare.  So when their policies start to near their cancellation date (many on 12/31, others on their renewal date next year) those people will be FORCED into enrolling into obamacare.

Without the people being cancelled and non-renewed by dimocrap scum....  Unless they enroll in obamacare, it all falls apart.

If the lying scumbag-in-chief had allowed people to actually keep their Private Plans, there wouldn't be any healthy people signing up....  Which is who has to carry the freight of ANY Health Insurance Program.

PLUS.  AND this is BIG:

The VAST majority of the people getting kicked off of their Private Personal Health Care Plans?

They won't qualify for subsidies.

Most of the people signing up now do.

obama lied.  dimocraps lie.

And I'll tell you something else....  The people in here saying obama didn't lie are some lying scumbags.

Knob-slurping, on their knees, lying scumbags.

And they know it.

Tell you something else they know....  They don't care.  They don't care that you and I know they're lying.  They'll just come up with another lie when the time comes.

SO far, I've seen two (2) libs come clean in here and fess up.

I respect them a little bit for being honest.  The rest?  Too dishonest to be allowed to live in this Country.  North Korea?  Maybe.

They'd fit right in there.  All they'd have to do is get their knee-pads cleaned up.

obama lied and libturds just don't care.  In fact, they think it's funny.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

Claudette said:


> Well the folks I talked to weren't liars.
> 
> Someone is lying but it ain't them.



And sorry, I'm still waiting to talk to those people.  

Fact is, the individual policy market has ALWAYS been a mess, long before ObamaCare got there.   It's where you heard most of the horror stories about people not getting treatment for cancer because they had acne as a teen or some such shit.  

I also don't get the GOP complaint.  they got exactly what they've been asking for for 30 years, a "Free Market" solution that includes private insurance.


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## ba1614 (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


> LoneLaugher said:
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Hey, they didn't blame Bush


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## jon_berzerk (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


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they cant 

they do on everything else


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


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Nope the new cry is (with apologies to James T Kirk) CRUUUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZ!!!! CRUUUUUUUUZZZZZ!!!!


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Claudette said:
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You are a lying scumbag.

I was in the Insurance business for 25 years and I NEVER heard of such bullshit.

You're a lying scumbag.

But you're a dimocrap so that's understood.

There was some underhanded SHIT going on but you're not even close to what it was.

I'll tell you what and how they did it if you ask nice.

Or maybe I won't.  I don't like irrational, lying dirtbags....  Meaning you.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

Edgetho said:


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Ohhhh, I'm sorry. 

You are part of the evil insurance industry and you can't cheat your customers anymore.  

I get it.  

I'm sorry.  I feel your pain. Really.  

Frankly, the problem with private insurance is that it would never work if you guys were kept honest, but this is the transitional step to Single Payer, which is what we should have done 40 years ago.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


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No, but there are a plethora of dems who blame Republicans.   I've read several posts on here blaming them (the Rs should have/could have done something back when blah, blah, blah).  Yes, I'm serious.  

This mess is all on the obama and dems.  You'd think they might own up to that, because if this thing was running brilliantly they'd be shouting "I told you so" from the rooftops, taking 100%+ of the credit.  You betcha.


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Typical joeblow response. you really are a one trick pony, ain't ya?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


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Having been screwed over by an insurance company, I have about as much sympathy for them as the ebola virus... 

We should have gone to single payer 40 years ago when the rest of the industrialized world did.


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## ba1614 (Nov 1, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


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Oh yeah, lots of them folks out there that need a good dose of facts too, couldn't agree more.


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Go ahead and deflect liar.

You just pull lies out of your ass like they're worms, don't you?

Demonizing Private Health Insurance Policies is just the latest in the 'official' White House talking points meme.

And they're lies.  

There used to be problems with Private Health Policies....  A long time ago.

Prudential was one of the worst offenders.

In Florida, most Health Insurance Policies are "Guaranteed Renewable" which should NOT be confused with 'non-cancelable' (another subject)

The Company guaranteed that the policy would be renewed regardless of Claims Experience and that any price increases would be on a 'class' basis.  IOW, everybody with that Plan would experience a price increase, not just any one individual.

With me so far, stupid?

So what Pru did after they introduced their disastrous CHIP (Comprehensive Health Insurance Policy) program and it started losing hundreds of millions,  was they offered a new plan called (I forgot so let's call it SHITS) that was significantly cheaper and they started selling it to everybody they could -- _Especially_ current participants in their CHIP policies.  

So, Healthy people went over to the new SHITS Program while the unhealthy people had to stay in the CHIP program and watch their rates go through the roof.  They priced them out.

Pru got in a lot of trouble over that and it doesn't happen anymore.

As to not paying for treatments?  Another bald-faced lie.

Here's a newsflash for you because you're so incredibly stupid....

ALL Insurance Companies in a State are required to keep "Reserves" in the State Treasury.  In the MILLIONS.  It's why the Insurance Commissioner is almost always also the State Treasurer.

If an Insurance Company and an Insured get into a pissing contest about what should or shouldn't be paid on a claim, all the Insured has to do is go to the Insurance Commissioner.

There is no trial.  There is no hearing.  There is no appeal.  No lawyers.

If the Commissioner decides in favor of the Insured (which they usually do because it's an elected position).....?  

He just takes the money out of the Company's Reserves that are in the State Treasury and pays the claim.

No questions asked.  No "By Your Leave"  No "Mother May I"

He just takes the money to pay the claim.  The Insurance Company don't like it?  Tough shit.  Suck on it or leave the State.  Don't care but you ain't getting your money back and if you get real shitty about it, we may decide to keep ALL your money in reserve and fine you a few million.

Your knowledge of the real world is juvenile, stupid and childish.

It's no wonder you have to lie all the time because you have no clue how the real world operates.


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## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

President Obama and the Democrats in Congress get 100% of the credit for the PPACA if it succeeds. They will share blame with the GOP should it fail. 

This is clear to anyone looking at the situation honestly.


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## ba1614 (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Yeah so we can have 6 month waits for things like hip surgery, outstanding


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

Blah, blah, blah... we didn't get health reform because the insurance industry was doing a bang-up job. 

We got it because people looked at folks like Nataline Sarkisyan, who was denied a liver transplant because it cost too much, but Cigna still paid its CEO $83,000,000 to not work anymore. 

Seriously, fuck the insurance industry.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


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Had to wait 6 months for knee surgery.... before my insurance company would finally admit that it wasn't an "elective".   Then I had to wait another month becuase my douchebag boss wouldn't let me have a day off for the surgery with an IT upgrade ongoing.  

Oh, yeah, and then the insurance company started lobbying to get me off the payroll because I was costing them too much money.  

No. Seriously. Fuck private insurance.


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## ba1614 (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Blah, blah, blah... we didn't get health reform because the insurance industry was doing a bang-up job.
> 
> We got it because people looked at folks like Nataline Sarkisyan, who was denied a liver transplant because it cost too much, but Cigna still paid its CEO $83,000,000 to not work anymore.
> 
> Seriously, fuck the insurance industry.



Yet your just fine with buddies of the Democratic Party getting a $600million no bid contract for obummer care lmfao the hypocrites really do know no limits


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## The Rabbi (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> President Obama and the Democrats in Congress get 100% of the credit for the PPACA if it succeeds. They will share blame with the GOP should it fail.
> 
> This is clear to anyone looking at the situation honestly.



No, idiot.  They own this crap.  They crafted it without input from the GOP.  They wrote the legislation.  They used every dirty trick to get it passed.  The GOP opposed it every step of the way.  Not one GOP member voted for this shit.
There is no "if it succeeds."  It will not succeed.  It cannot succeed.  It is based on assumptions that will simply not happen.
There are already two Dem senators pushing legislation that will effectively kill this shit pile by allowing people actually to keep their old plans.  You know, like Obama promised?  Do you think they are doing this to make Obama look bad?  Because they're nice guys?  Fuck no.  They're doing it because they are up for re-election and because their constituents are giving them an earful every fucking day about their policies being cancelled.
The Dems are running scared shitless.  Good.  SOme of them were duped by Pelosi et al and they deserve it.


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## jon_berzerk (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


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with the fixes closer to a billion


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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What a load of shit


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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You have proof of all this? Or is it made up in your delusional, blame everyone, woe is me tiny little mind?


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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So you can get screwed over by the government, and everyone else gets screwed along with you? JoeBlow has one bad experience with an insurance company so the whole system has to come crumbling down.

What a selfish prick.


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## ba1614 (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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 Interesting, my bother got his in under a week. 

 You can deflect to all the extreme cases you like, but the facts are places like Canada wait 6 months regardless, unless they break it, then it's fixed in a couple days, but short of that they wait. And that's not counting the 2-3month wait to even see a specialist.

No, seriously, what we had worked for the vast majority.


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Blah, blah, blah... we didn't get health reform because the insurance industry was doing a bang-up job.
> 
> We got it because people looked at folks like Nataline Sarkisyan, who was denied a liver transplant because it cost too much, but Cigna still paid its CEO $83,000,000 to not work anymore.
> 
> Seriously, fuck the insurance industry.



No -- Seriously....  You are a lying scumbag.

Nataline was denied treatment because the Company thought it was too experimental.

Insurance Companies routinely deny experimental treatments.  It's in their policy jacket...  Look it up.

They're not going to foot the bill for medical experiments.  It's not what they do.  They pay for PROVEN, KNOWN treatments, not for experiments.

You're a lying dirtbag

As usual


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## ba1614 (Nov 1, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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I'm trying to keep the available deflections to a minimum....


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


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Wait!!!  Are you intimating that a dimocrap is a lying dirtbag?

Shocking


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## martybegan (Nov 1, 2013)

Edgetho said:


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If doctors want to try an experimental treatment bad enough, they will find a way to cover the costs. After all, if they find it works and they can standardize it, they become the "experts" of it, and the cash will come a-rolling in.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 1, 2013)

None of JoeBs narrative rings true, not that he was a Republican not that he has Cuban friends who miss living under Fidel not his "insurance" story, none of it


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## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


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It's also possible that CIGNA made a bad decision.  But not based on money, based on holding the line against paying for experimental medicine.

Do you know how incredibly expensive that could get?  It would bankrupt the entire Health Insurance Industry.....  Including Medicare, Medicaid and obamacare.

How about Kathleen Sebellius being order by a Federal Judge to put a young girl on the lung transplant list lest she die?

And THAT wasn't even over the issue of experimental medicine.  

THAT was simply bureaucracy at its finest.

And you know what?

I am VERY SERIOUS ABOUT THIS:

Why is the Insurance Company taking it on the chin?

Answer me this, dirtbag dimocraps.....

Was the Insurance Company scheduled to do the operation?

Did the Insurance Company refuse to allow access to an operating room?

Did the Insurance Company refuse to give her a Hospital bed?

The Insurance Company....  They were just the 'money men'

If this was so righteous, if this was such a high moral issue.....

*Then why didn't the Doctors and Hospital perform/allow the operation and worry about the money later?*

Who's the greedy fucks now?


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## Darkwind (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


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You should have asked him if he changed insurance companies after this alleged bad treatment........Because now when we get screwed over, we won't be allowed to fire our government.

That is soooooooooooooooooo much better.......


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## Claudette (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Since they aren't part of the USMB the only way you can see them will be to come to Melbourne, Florida. 

I'm sure the two Deputy Sheriffs would be more than happy to fill you in. I can't vouch for what  will happen if you call them liars though. LOL


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## bripat9643 (Nov 1, 2013)

martybegan said:


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That sounds like horseshit to me.  When I ruptured my Achilles tendon, the emergency room doctor wanted to check me in for surgery that night.  How was he costing the insurance company any money if he didn't even have the surgery yet?


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## jon_berzerk (Nov 1, 2013)

Claudette said:


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somehow i dont know how it works 

but some guests can post on these boards 

a guest responded to one of my posts the other day


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## bripat9643 (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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A "free market solution" doesn't require 20,000 pages of regulations, nimrod.


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## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm still waiting to hear from someone who supposedly just loooved his non-compliant policy...



I loved mine.  No mammogram coverage because I'm a guy, no maternity coverage because I can't give birth to a child, no pre-existing conditions covered which is fine because I have no pre-existing conditions.


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## Sarah G (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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I guess the ones who got letters saying their insurance was cancelled didn't really understand how terrible their policies really are.


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## healthmyths (Nov 1, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> I can for a fact stay with my current provider.
> 
> I suppose it could be interpreted that I am keeping my plan and "choosing" to add provisions making it ACA compliant. But why would I choose to add maternity coverage and other required elements? We certainly don't NEED maternity. I also would NOT choose to increase my deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. I've done so in the past, but only as a means of reducing the premiums.
> 
> ...



Remember you are helping insure 46 million uninsured... wait 36 million because Obama now say 10 million are illegal citizens... But wait..
Obama obviously doesn't know that 14 million said to be uninsured actually needed Medicaid to register them... that's it they are covered.. leaves 22 million.. but
wait  18 million of the 22 million Obama counts as uninsured.. DON'T want or NEED insurance as they are under 34 make over $50k and pay out less in health
services out of pocket then the cost of their employers' plans!
So YOU are now paying for what could have been covered by taxing lawyers THAT CAUSE the $850 billion a year according to doctors who fearing lawsuits
do duplicate tests, etc... defensive medicine!
Tax 10% of lawyers $270 billion would PAY the premium for each of the 4 million that truly need and want!
AND THIS would NOT raise your PREMIUMS but actually lower the insurance premiums because instead of paying $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests,
etc.. easily $100 billion would be reduced and as smart people know INSURANCE regulators require health companies to prove their rate structures.
An average insurance company pays out 80% of premiums so there fore if the companies are paying out 70% then premiums must decline!
So you are helping to ACA to cover 4 million truly needy  WHEN it could be done taxing lawyers!!!


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


No one has lied more about Obamacare than Obama himself.  Is he is your stupid little thread?


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


I don't care what happens in your little world, boy.  You really need to get over this ridiculous notion that what happens to you happens to everybody.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> And sorry, I'm still waiting to talk to those people.



You'd lie about it if you did.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

From 1996 to 2001....I was the guy responsible for employee benefits at the company I worked for.  We had 8 employees. The rates went up every year.....8-15%. I remember getting pissed at Paychex.....our payroll and benefits provider......every year. There was nothing we could do about it....and we fucking paid. So did you. And you never made a peep?

I have been self employed since then.....covered under my wife's employee benefit plan. It also went up every fucking year....and we had a couple of preexisting conditions that were not covered. Everybody in this nation was fucked by insurance companies......and you liked it! Sucker.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> President Obama and the Democrats in Congress get 100% of the credit for the PPACA if it succeeds. They will share blame with the GOP should it fail.
> 
> This is clear to anyone looking at the situation honestly.


Yes, but Obama Ass-Sucks refuse to look at it honestly.  They even refuse to admit Obama lied.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Blah, blah, blah... we didn't get health reform because the insurance industry was doing a bang-up job.
> 
> We got it because people looked at folks like Nataline Sarkisyan, who was denied a liver transplant because it cost too much, but Cigna still paid its CEO $83,000,000 to not work anymore.
> 
> Seriously, fuck the insurance industry.


Oh, you mean the same insurance industry who are looking to profit hugely from ACA?

Despite Glitches, Obamacare Profit Windfall To Insurers Well Underway - Forbes

Obama sold you out.  And you thank him for it.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> ba1614 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


You were fired for cause.  No question.


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm pretty sure Obama just thinks you USMB wingnuts are stupid, Dave.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


That judgement is up to them, not people who know nothing about those policies.

Such arrogance, backed up by nothing whatsoever.

What is it about liberals that makes them feel qualified to make life decisions for everyone else?


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> I'm pretty sure Obama just thinks you USMB wingnuts are stupid, Dave.



We're not the ones believing him when he tells blatant lies, child.


----------



## Rebelitarian (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



This is America right, the same nation where 90% of the voters can't make the Bilderberg connection to the 2 parties !!!!!!!!!!!!



By the way, Obama is NOT a US citizen.

Obamacare is invalid.

It is just that simple !!!!!!!!!


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

Nutters will defend your right to be screwed by a health insurance company....and to decide not to buy health insurance.....to the end.  

They know their RIGHTS, dammit!


----------



## Edgetho (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> From 1996 to 2001....I was the guy responsible for employee benefits at the company I worked for.  We had 8 employees. The rates went up every year.....8-15%. I remember getting pissed at Paychex.....our payroll and benefits provider......every year. There was nothing we could do about it....and we fucking paid. So did you. And you never made a peep?
> 
> I have been self employed since then.....covered under my wife's employee benefit plan. It also went up every fucking year....and we had a couple of preexisting conditions that were not covered. Everybody in this nation was fucked by insurance companies......and you liked it! Sucker.



The Japanese make cars.  They make computers.  They make TVs and DVD players and everything electronic you can think of.

They own Banks.  They buy Movie Making Companies, they own heavy industrial companies in the US.

They make -- Everything and they're involved in every aspect of our lives.

Except for one thing.....  Insurance and Insurance Companies.

Know why?  There's no profit in it.  Insurance stocks (the few that exist) aren't "growth' stocks, at best they're income stocks.

Most of the Health Insurance Companies in this Country are NOT-FOR-PROFIT Companies.

And now you're saying that your wife's Group Insurance doesn't cover some pre-existing conditions?

Know what I think?  I think you're talking out of your ass.  As usual.

Are Insurance Companies perfect?  HELL no.

Did our Health Insurance system need worked on.  Absolutely.

But what they've given us is ten times worse than what we had.

Know why?  Because stupid fucks like you got involved in it.

Congratulations, dimocraps.  You've sure impressed me with your rollout of the ACA.

And it's just going to get worse.

dimocraps are stupid.  ALL of them


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > From 1996 to 2001....I was the guy responsible for employee benefits at the company I worked for.  We had 8 employees. The rates went up every year.....8-15%. I remember getting pissed at Paychex.....our payroll and benefits provider......every year. There was nothing we could do about it....and we fucking paid. So did you. And you never made a peep?
> ...



That company that I worked for........Japanese. I lived in Japan for 10 years. My wife is Japanese. 

Want to talk some more about Japan's insurance industry? Go ahead.....be stupid. 

My wife's group plan does not cover two preexisting conditions that we had when we first signed on in 2002. Idiot.


----------



## Trajan (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.
> ...



No, some can, but they are to invested in keeping up the front, so they have to carry on with the masquerade and do so willingly, these are the folks who regularly  submarine their integrity to 'be right' on the friggin' Internet.  


Then you have the useful idiots, they don't care, there is nothing to "comprehend" becasue they are so far gone they don't question anything anyway, ergo, nothing to consider, nothing to think about..... 

And mind you this from the Bush lied crowd.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

Trajan said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



How do you know when you meet these people? Do you have a test or something?


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> 
> Sure it failed everywhere and every time it's been tried, it's failing right now in Europe, it failed whenever we give Progressives control over any economy no matter how large or small from Detroit to China, but this time, this is the time it will work



When your entire "economy" is dependent on what the government doles out to you, and the dole keeps increasing, of course you'd be all for additional increases.  Since so many of these mooches have never paid to support themselves, let alone paid "into the system", they have no clue about the economic realities the rest of us face.  Life is good when everything is "free", donchano?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Blah, blah, blah... we didn't get health reform because the insurance industry was doing a bang-up job.
> ...



Wendell Potter, the former VP of Cigna for public relations during the Sarkisyan case, tells a different story.  One that doesn't look good for Cigna.  The man was so disgusted by the conduct of Ed Hanaway and other executives he quit and became a spokesman for health care reform.  

The thought an insurance company can let your kid die because they put something in the fine print is bullshit.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


> Pickle said:
> 
> 
> > Obama should just man up and say "okay i'm sorry".
> ...



He must have missed that particular daily briefing.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > I have created a thread in Healthcare for all of you. When you decide to come clean, there is a place for you.
> ...



He doesn't care whether he's been lied to, as long as he can maintain his fantasy that _someone_ cares about what happens to him.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> It's also possible that CIGNA made a bad decision.  But not based on money, based on holding the line against paying for experimental medicine.
> 
> Do you know how incredibly expensive that could get?  It would bankrupt the entire Health Insurance Industry.....  Including Medicare, Medicaid and obamacare.
> 
> ...



Okay, a couple of points. 

Yeah, when it comes to greed, the hospitals and pharmaceutical companies are JUST as bad as the Insurance Industry.  When it comes to general scuminess, the Insurance industry has everyone beat, though.  

The argument here is that you can't cheat your customers with substandard policies anymore.  Boo, fucking hoo...


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 1, 2013)

Dems if you like your Senate majority you can keep it past 2014













Nah... only fucking with you


----------



## Trajan (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...




and, viola'......


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



"Let them eat cake!"  If you lose your plan, then shop around in the new ACA marketplace.
Obama on insurance cancellations: ?Just shop around in the new marketplace, that?s what it?s for? « Hot Air

That's right folks, check's in the mail and no one will cum in your mouth...or up your ass.  Really, obama promises...


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> > Well the folks I talked to weren't liars.
> ...



So now we get to read (and hear) the horror stories from people who have always paid their way and now find they are no longer able to make that choice for themselves?  And please explain how a government mandated, government-defined benefits program is "free market"?


----------



## Esmeralda (Nov 1, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> 
> Sure it failed everywhere and every time it's been tried, *it's failing right now in Europe*, it failed whenever we give Progressives control over any economy no matter how large or small from Detroit to China, but this time, this is the time it will work



National health care programs in Europe are not failing, quite the contrary.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> None of JoeBs narrative rings true, not that he was a Republican not that he has Cuban friends who miss living under Fidel not his "insurance" story, none of it



Progressives don't let "truth" get in the way of the narrative.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 1, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Claudette said:
> ...



Actually, less than 3% of policy holders are affected by the new rules, which is a good tradeoff for the 16% of the population that now has coverage or the 5% who are upgraded into better policies for less money. 

But, yeah, this is a free market solution.  You guys wouldn't allow a Medicare buy in or a Public Option, so we are making the Insurance companies work by preventing them from cheating their customers.  

Unlesss you consider fraud to be key to the "Free Market".  I don't.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

Trajan said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



Viola'? As in the instrument or the pitcher?

You failed to answer the question. You described two types of people. How do you determine which is which? Do you have a test? I will take it.


----------



## Trajan (Nov 1, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2SkqaCO9c4]Thank You God - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## g5000 (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



You are working for a company that sponsors your health insurance before the ACA was enacted.

The ACA allows your company to keep the plan it has.  Your company is "grandfathered".

Then, a few months ago, your company announces it is increasing the deductible on your insurance.

Is that the insurance plan you had when Obama made his promise?

Not any more.  No.

Was it ObamaCare that changed the insurance plan you had?

Nope.  This was a corporate decision.


So now your company loses its grandfather status, and now must meet the ACA's minimum services and affordability requirements.  This would actually result in ObamaCare forcing your company to provide you BETTER health insurance if it has been below those standards before now.

But chances are your company is already exceeding those standards.

In any case, ObamaCare is not cancelling your insurance.


----------



## g5000 (Nov 1, 2013)

Obama lied to the people who are insured privately, and not through an employer.  He emphatically lied to them.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

g5000 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> ...



Wow, really going out on a limb there to prop up obama's lie.

So it's a better insurance plan to have men and older women pay for maternity, newborn, pediatric care (including vision and dental)?  It's a better insurance plan that people who don't have pre-existing conditions are now paying more so people who do have pre-existing conditions get to pay less?  You have a warped view of what constitutes a better plan.  Who the hell is the government to tell us what is a better plan?  

Yeah, the (un)aca took away plans that didn't cover these things (because maybe their employees didn't need/want these things) and says that now we have to have these things covered.  Premiums jacked for coverage people don't need or want.  Yeah, this is all just great.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Obama lied to the people who are insured privately, and not through an employer.  He emphatically lied to them.



Was he only talking to those insured privately? Or, was he talking to all Americans?


----------



## Trajan (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



was obama being truthful when he said; you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan.......?


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

OP- People aren't stupid, just misinformed and ignorant. Your facts are wrong. 

For example, it's not that men are covered for maternal care, dingbats, it's that everyone is covered for everything. COMPREHENSIVE. AY CARAMBA.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

Trajan said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



No. Not entirely. How many times do you need to hear that? Do you get off on hearing it?

Politicians sometimes refrain from telling the absolute truth. As do ALL humans. 

Get over it. The man was selling a plan to get people insured. Our sound bite culture demands that the full story is not told. People can't handle it. As evidenced by the absolute bullshit outrage that EVEN YOU are exhibiting over the sentence. 

When will you think in larger terms? Ever?


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Why do I need free birth control?  I've had a vasectomy and my wife can't get pregnant.  Why do we need maternity coverage?  Why do I need a policy that covers pre-existing conditions?  I don't have any.

My deductible will double from $10,000 per year to $22,000 per year and it still costs me more per month.

What was wrong with my previous policy if the new one is worse?


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Your deductible will not be $22,000. Why are you being dishonest?

On why you need to help fund birth control........read this. 

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/a-few-quick-things-that-continue-to-annoy-me/


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

Pathological versus Compulsive Liars - Truth About Deception

Oh, our dear leader so owns this

-Geaux

What is the Difference Between a Sociopath, a Compulsive, a Pathological, a Chronic, and a Habitual Liar?
A Sociopath

A sociopath is typically defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others.  A sociopath is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way).  Sociopaths have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others.  Sociopaths are often charming and charismatic, but they use their talented social skills in manipulative and self-centered ways (see, lovefraud, for more on sociopaths).

Compulsive Liar

A compulsive liar is defined as someone who lies out of habit.  Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions.  Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small.  For a compulsive liar, telling the truth is very awkward and uncomfortable while lying feels right.  Compulsive lying is usually thought to develop in early childhood, due to being placed in an environment where lying was necessary.  For the most part, compulsive liars are not overly manipulative and cunning (unlike sociopaths), rather they simply lie out of habit - an automatic response which is hard to break and one that takes its toll on a relationship (see, how to cope with a compulsive liar).


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

THE SCAM INSURERS YOU'RE DEFENDING COULD HAVE BROUGHT THEIR POLICIES UP TO STANDARD. ThEY cancelled them...good riddance.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> THE SCAM INSURERS YOU'RE DEFENDING COULD HAVE BROUGHT THEIR POLICIES UP TO STANDARD. ThEY cancelled them...good riddance.



But a bunch of stiffs in a room with their heads up their ass set a 'standard' which is actually a mandate?

*FAIL*

-Geaux


----------



## Trajan (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



I rest my case. 


the correct answer is; no,  full stop.  

the rest is an exercise in poor mitigation....foretold in the 2 examples I posted and you asked of...............pick your poison.


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

I listened to Rush ranting today, said Obama knew 50 per cent of individual policies would not be up to standard, so he knew he was lying, and 93 million would lose their insurance. ...A FACT, A NON SEUITUR, AND TOTAL BS LOL  Guess who lies, as always. There's only 18 million of them- or 12...


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Obama lied to the people who are insured privately, and not through an employer.  He emphatically lied to them.



Oh, he lied to those covered by employer insurance too:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so]Obama Promises To Lower Health Insurance Premiums by $2,500 Per Year - YouTube[/ame]

Federal Employees Will Pay 4.4 Percent More Toward Health Care Premiums in 2014 - NationalJournal.com

Health Insurance Premiums


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

If you have cancer or long illness or hospitalization with these shytte insurances, you're shytte out of luck. Welcome to civilization, dingbats...


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

Joe looks like he's got gas...

-Geaux

[youtube]iGAdrQ2RpdM[/youtube]


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



Sorry, $20,000 per year.

So why do I need maternity care again?  I can't physically get anyone pregnant.  My wife cannot physically be impregnated.  Are you denying medical science?


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Obama lied to the people who are insured privately, and not through an employer.  He emphatically lied to them.
> ...


He never said immediately, and after a few years, obviously NO LIE. More out of context Pubcrappe for the dupes....

4.4 per cent is less than any year in decades LOL...


----------



## TooTall (Nov 1, 2013)

ba1614 said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Who didn't blame Bush for what?


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

110- EVERYONE is covered for EVERYTHING, diNgbat. Stupidest BS argument EVER...LOL


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> 110- EVERYONE is covered for EVERYTHING, diNgbat. Stupidest BS argument EVER...LOL



But everyone did not want to be covered by everything because they conldn't afford it. And guess what genius, they still can't

-Geaux


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



Wouldn't matter, only you are covered, not your girlfriend, wife, or anyone other woman of your acquaintance...unless she is also carried on your policy.  Why should anyone be forced to pay for coverage for conditions they will never be subject to?


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



You don't know what a deductible is, do you? You deductible will not be $20,000. 

I did not say that you need maternity care. I said you need to help cover those who do. Just like the waitress who serves your coffee does not need to have coverage for penile cancer. But she does. It is insurance. It requires everyone to pitch in. Get over it.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Why?


----------



## TooTall (Nov 1, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> ...



I consider the UK part of Europe, and this article says they are failing.

Excerpts from the linked article.

UK healthcare on brink of collapse  NHS regulator



> In his first major announcement since being appointed earlier this year, David Prior, head of the Care and Quality Commission (CQC) non-departmental public body, has called for an urgent investment in community care.
> 
> He also said that the number of emergency-care beds in hospitals should be scaled back in order to divert much-needed funds to other areas of the National Health Service (NHS). He voiced his concerns at a talk on Wednesday at the King's Fund, a think-tank that seeks to improve the health care system in England.
> 
> ...


UK healthcare on brink of collapse ? NHS regulator ? RT News


----------



## TooTall (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



It didn't require everyone to pitch in until Obama told you it did.  Otherwise, insurance companies would not have sold  policies with those exclusions for all these years.


----------



## TooTall (Nov 1, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



Because Obama told him it did.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

TooTall said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



Agreed.. Obama did not like the fact that those of us who did not make much money, still found a way to cover our families with the policy we could afford. He cried foul and decided to take our little money, then charge us more under threat of fine, to pay for deadbeats and lowlifes who would not give up a cell phone, a night out on the town etc, to pay for healthcare.

By us doing the right thing for our families, we were rooted out and punished!

Communism at its best

-Geaux


----------



## Plasmaball (Nov 1, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> 
> Sure it failed everywhere and every time it's been tried, it's failing right now in Europe, it failed whenever we give Progressives control over any economy no matter how large or small from Detroit to China, but this time, this is the time it will work



its funny because you either think this is true or you are just trying to bait people.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



Big picture. I'll bet if you try, you will be able to think of a few good reasons why. Give it a shot.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



No, I'm asking _you_ why.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > gallantwarrior said:
> ...



stand by.. The logic if you call it that you will get is, by paying more for your insurance as a result of being dropped from a less expensive plan is, it saves you money. 

-Geaux


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > gallantwarrior said:
> ...



And I am telling you to use your brain and figure it out for yourself. I want to see if you can. Play the "devil's advocate". See if you can argue my side if this issue for a minute.


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



iF YOU DON'T make much money, you'll be a helluva lot better off- you'are misinformed, of course.


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



I know what a deductible is, it's right there at the link.  It appears you don't.


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



The problem with covering expensive situations that are not ever going to materialize is that it costs more.  The female server is not rated on penile cancer because she will never get it.  That's why I should not be rated and charged for maternity care.

Try again.  Why do I need to buy a plan that includes maternity coverage and birth control?


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > gallantwarrior said:
> ...



it's so you can pay for the welfare queens who don't know who the daddy's are  pinching out pups. That's why

-Geaux


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



While true, it's also so that the people who actually would need it don't have to pay more.  It's a way to buy support for the whole program.  Most of the people paying more don't support it anyway so the architects of the policy figured out how to engineer the policies to most benefit those who would want to keep it.

This isn't about insuring people in need, it's more free stuff for supporters of big government wealth redistribution.

You'll note that women aren't required to have testicular cancer ratings and vasectomies for men are not covered.

http://www.uhc.com/live/uhc_com/Assets/Documents/ContraceptiveCoverage.pdf


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > gallantwarrior said:
> ...



EVERYONE is covered for EVERYTHING- change the gd channel LOL Stupidest argument EVER- though the dupes have a million of them...


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



If you know what a deductible is, why are you claiming that yours will be $20,000. That is not true.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



I agree in part- The libs like to say that those being dropped were passing on cost to the taxpayer when they had a major health issue not covered. I disagree in that, for those who were responsible in obtaining health coverage at a cost they could afford, were also responsible enough to pay the bills that exceeded their healthcare benefit. The statements otherwise is nonsense. 

-Geaux


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

Rebelitarian said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> ...


That's nice.  Run along now.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Nutters will defend your right to be screwed by a health insurance company....and to decide not to buy health insurance.....to the end.
> 
> They know their RIGHTS, dammit!


Proglodytes will deny you have rights.


----------



## MeBelle (Nov 1, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Dems if you like your Senate majority you can keep it past 2014
> 
> 
> 
> ...



​


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


They say the same stupid crap you do.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



From your link:



> Premiums for Bronze Plans are only guesses until insurance companies unveil their qualified health plans for open enrollment. Some sources have estimated a Bronze Plan premium in 2016 to be $4,500 to $5,800 annually for individuals and $12,000 to $20,000 for familes of four or five.



Your premium can go to $20K/yr ($1,666 per month) not your deductible.

What are you paying per month for your premium now?  

Also from your link:



> Bronze are expected to have the lowest premium rates for the four new types of plans



$1,666 per month is one of the lowest premium rates??  We pay $260 per month (including vision and dental) for a family of five. This amount is pre-taxed, something that will be taxed in a few years ala the (un)aca.  How in the world is $1,666 cheap?? This is nuts!


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

134- Or they died or went bankrupt...Take your subsidy and enjoy your affordable, quality, comprehensive, guaranteed insurance...


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Argue your side...even for a moment?  I'm supposed to want to pay more so that some bitch can get her rotting pussy cleaned up so she can go fuck some moron, so she can get preggers and pop out some spawn...for which I should feel privileged and charitable.  After all, I have enabled said welfare whore to burden me with one more mouth to feed, clothe, house, and indoctrinate.
Nah.  I don't think so.  I will never, ever produce offspring at this point.  The one daughter I did engender is now self-supporting.  I paid for her 100%, from birth to adulthood.  So, why exactly should I pay for maternity coverage?


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

g5000 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> ...


Doesn't change the fact that Obama lied when he said you could keep your plan.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> OP- People aren't stupid, just misinformed and ignorant. Your facts are wrong.
> 
> For example, it's not that men are covered for maternal care, dingbats, it's that everyone is covered for everything. COMPREHENSIVE. AY CARAMBA.



Do you think you might get pregnant?  I'm not going to.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



At least you admit you're an OAS.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Uh, no it likely isn't.  The waitress probably has an individual policy and it would be stupid for her to opt to pay for coverage for something that she neither needs nor wants.

It's also wrong for people who don't have a pre-existing condition to pay more so people who do have pre-existing conditions get to pay less .  You have a pe, you're a higher risk and should pay more.  Period.

So you're for everyone paying for everything via mandates from the federal government vs. people choosing what coverage fits their needs and pay for it themselves?


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

asterism said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Because Obama.

Right, Sarah?


----------



## MeBelle (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



So [MENTION=24388]asterism[/MENTION] mixed up a word. Big whoop! 
From the link: 
$20,000 per year
Obamacare Bronze Health Insurance Plans

Premiums for Bronze Plans are only guesses until insurance companies unveil their qualified health plans for open enrollment. 
Some sources have estimated a* Bronze Plan premium in 2016 to be $4,500 to $5,800 annually for individuals and $12,000 to $20,000 for familes of four or five.*

* ^^^  typo on the website^^^*​    ​


----------



## 007 (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...


----------



## jon_berzerk (Nov 1, 2013)

MeBelle60 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



out here for me at least a single plan 626 a month


----------



## Rozman (Nov 1, 2013)

Pickle said:


> Obama should just man up and say "okay i'm sorry".
> 
> Instead he sounds more and more like a snake oil salesman and credibility is falling faster than miley cyrus' panties, except with the ones who are completely programmed.



Either he knew what he was doing or he is just Valerie Jarrett's puppet and just went out
and read the script as written.


----------



## MeBelle (Nov 1, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Demmital! You beat me to the post!  But you didn't catch the typo!


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



And if you make too much to get the subsidies, you're paying for the insurance of those who DO get the subsidies.

That means you're NOT better off.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

@MeBelle --- Yeah, I totally missed that.  Good catch!    

$1,666 per month for the premium.  Holy Mother of God.


----------



## MeBelle (Nov 1, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> @MeBelle --- Yeah, I totally missed that.  Good catch!
> 
> $1,666 per month for the* premium*.  Holy Mother of God.



Wonder what the* deductible* is!


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



I ran our numbers through this website (I got if from the healtcare.gov facebook page).  Pennsylvania Health Insurance Exchange | Healthcare.gov

Our premium would run about $100-$150 more per month, higher deductible and co-insurance and on top of that, it would be subsidized in the amount of $1,338.  That's approx $1,738 or so and I don't think that includes vision or dental.  Holy shit!  This thing has to implode, this is simply not sustainable.  Oh wait, my bad.  I forgot that was the plan all along.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

MeBelle60 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > @MeBelle --- Yeah, I totally missed that.  Good catch!
> ...



Hand over your first born, your dog, and a year's supply of chocolate and I'll tell ya!


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Of course it was.  ACA is just a stepping stone to nationalizing the health care industry.

And then we're TRULY screwed.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> MeBelle60 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



And bend over and don't expect any warm grease either

-Geaux


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 1, 2013)

Hey.......this is really all the GOP's fault for trying to stop Obamacare.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 1, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > MeBelle60 said:
> ...



I've heard that 60-grit condoms can be expected.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

No. Nobody will have premiums of $20,000. 

Nobody will pay $1666 monthly for a bronze plan. 

You people will simply have to get some facts. You are freeing yourselves out.


----------



## Politico (Nov 1, 2013)

You wanna take take the Obamacare Challenge Lone?


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Except you're ALREADY paying for their care, just in the stupidest, cruelest, most expensive way- no doctor, no preventive care, no cost controls, no regulation, ER care- bankruptcies, deaths etc etc etc. THIMK - Everything you know is Pubcrappe from greedy scammers...


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> No. Nobody will have premiums of $20,000.
> 
> Nobody will pay $1666 monthly for a bronze plan.
> 
> You people will simply have to get some facts. You are freeing yourselves out.


You don't want us to have facts.  You want us to have your progressive propaganda.

The LAST thing you want us to have is facts.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


How in the world does Obama's ass not get chapped from so many people sucking it?


----------



## RandallFlagg (Nov 1, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> I can for a fact stay with my current provider.
> 
> I suppose it could be interpreted that I am keeping my plan and "choosing" to add provisions making it ACA compliant. But why would I choose to add maternity coverage and other required elements? We certainly don't NEED maternity. I also would NOT choose to increase my deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. I've done so in the past, but only as a means of reducing the premiums.
> 
> ...



Yes Sir. My insurance exceeds the "minimum" by a wide margin, but the letter I received aprox 2 weeks ago raised my premiums by 31%. I have no doubt whatsoever that that will double again in the coming year.

My Wife's provider (I am retired, she still works - she is on my policy and I on hers) has already intimated that there is a distinct possibility that in 2014 that her premiums will go up 75%. We will be able to keep our Doctor (an Internist that we have been with for nearly 30 years) but he is no longer accepting new patients and is refusing to accept Obarrycare patients.

The "Young people" that are supposed to keep this crap afloat have already stated en masse' that they will take the penalties (excuse me, taxes) rather than pay 750 a year for something that they will not use. Tens of thousands that are "joining up" are going into MEDICAID (for a freebie), rather than this BS.

Barry - you screwed the pooch on this one young blood.You are going to go down in history as the biggest joke of a president we have ever had to endure. One thing you can always count on with Democrats - they will always - at some point - screw themselves.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

Politico said:


> You wanna take take the Obamacare Challenge Lone?



What was it again?


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Maybe not his ass cuz the entitled are on the tit

-Geaux


----------



## The T (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > No. Nobody will have premiums of $20,000.
> ...


Truth has no agenda...Lone Lunger however does have an agenda...and the truth to IT is it's bane...


----------



## The T (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > You wanna take take the Obamacare Challenge Lone?
> ...


 Gawd yer stupid, Lunger.


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

Every universal care system in the modern world has over 80 per cent approval, ours was at 34 per cent in 2007, and ours is worse and costs twice as much.... How dumb can you people get...Pub dupes...LOL


----------



## The T (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> No. Nobody will have premiums of $20,000.
> 
> Nobody will pay $1666 monthly for a bronze plan.
> 
> You people will simply have to get some facts. You are freeing yourselves out.


We see the facts. MILLIONS will pay more. Do you oft latch onto Statist failure lunger?


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> Every universal care system in the modern world has over 80 per cent approval, ours was at 34 per cent in 2007, and ours is worse and costs twice as much.... How dumb can you people get...Pub dupes...LOL



The modern worlds sucks. Can't see it from my house

-Geaux


----------



## RandallFlagg (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...




That's hilarious!!! 

Truebut hilarious!!!


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Man, I'm out of rep for you. Will catch up to you later.

LMAO

Geaux


----------



## The T (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


LOL! Tittie BABY Chrissy Matthews never looked so good!


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

The T said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...



Yeah? You know what Politico's challenge is? Go ahead. I am waiting.


----------



## francoHFW (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...





listen, you vulgar dingbat, we like his POLICIES because we're not brainwashed 50 per cent racist dupes of the greedy idiot rich...READ SOMETHING, FOOL.


----------



## The T (Nov 1, 2013)

Aren't Obama acolytes tired of being lied to over and over again? DO they enjoy being lied to?


----------



## The T (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


 
The all knowing LUNGER doesn't know? Imagine that? NEWSFLASH.

Look it up asswipe. I don't work for losers as you.


----------



## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


He lied right in your face, dolt.  And you kiss his ass for it.

Pathetic.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 1, 2013)

The T said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



You don't know do you? Why say anything? You have a need to look stupid?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 1, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> No. Nobody will have premiums of $20,000.
> 
> Nobody will pay $1666 monthly for a bronze plan.
> 
> You people will simply have to get some facts. You are freeing yourselves out.



Did you even bother to go to the link?  It isn't some bogus website.  Go. Read. Learn. Weep that you have been played for a fool by the obama.  Open your eyes.

(pssst, click on the first link and scroll down the page. Then click on the second link and fucking read what is there.  Those are your facts, Jack.)

Compare Health Insurance Plans: Medicare, Individual, Medicaid & Dental Coverage. HealthPocket saves you money and time by comparing all health plans in 1 click

Obamacare Bronze Health Insurance Plans


----------



## 007 (Nov 1, 2013)

daveman said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


Not only that dm, he's more than likely being PAID to post his COMMIE LEFTIST SHIT here. He's a DNC operative/activist.


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Except vasectomies.


----------



## asterism (Nov 1, 2013)

MeBelle60 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



oops, my mistake.

Yes I meant premium.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> I can for a fact stay with my current provider.
> 
> I suppose it could be interpreted that I am keeping my plan and "choosing" to add provisions making it ACA compliant. But why would I choose to add maternity coverage and other required elements? We certainly don't NEED maternity. I also would NOT choose to increase my deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. I've done so in the past, but only as a means of reducing the premiums.
> 
> ...



I have seen some instances where people are claiming their premiums are doubling, and I've actually checked it out in a few instances.  There is truth that for some this is happening.  It seems to be happening more for those who are over 60 from what I have seen so far.  I'm 50 and the plan I am looking at will be almost exactly the same price as my current plan but the deductible will double.  The only offset is that all my well care doctor visits and tests will be paid for 100%.  For me having the deductible double isn't an issue because I never hit my deductible now, but I could see it being a very big problem for someone who needs regular treatment or care.  

I'm not sure why the rates seem to be so high for those over 60 other than to think the insurance companies are afraid not enough younger people will sign up so they jacked up the rates on older people.


----------



## Politico (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> No. Nobody will have premiums of $20,000.
> 
> Nobody will pay $1666 monthly for a bronze plan.
> 
> You people will simply have to get some facts. You are freeing yourselves out.





Politico said:


> You wanna take take the Obamacare Challenge Lone?





LoneLaugher said:


> What was it again?





The T said:


> Gawd yer stupid, Lunger.





LoneLaugher said:


> Yeah? You know what Politico's challenge is? Go ahead. I am waiting.





The T said:


> The all knowing LUNGER doesn't know? Imagine that? NEWSFLASH.
> 
> Look it up asswipe. I don't work for losers as you.





LoneLaugher said:


> You don't know do you? Why say anything? You have a need to look stupid?



Yeah he does. The point is you do too. I have asked you before and each time you just pretend it didn't happen and don't respond because you know you would lose.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

asterism said:


> MeBelle60 said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



This would be a good time to actually admit that.....even after a couple of years of discussing the ACA, you had no idea what a deductible is. 

And....you WILL NOT BE PAYING $20,000 in premiums either.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

ObamaCare 2016: Happy Yet?
The website problems were finally solved. But the doctor shortage is a nightmare.

By BRADLEY ALLEN
Oct. 22, 2013 7:04 p.m. ET
Three years after the disastrous launch of the Affordable Care Act, most of the website troubles finally have been ironed out. People are now able to log on to the government's ACA website and to most of the state health-insurance exchanges. The public has grudgingly come to accept higher insurance premiums, new taxes and increases in part-time workers who were formerly full-time. But Americans are irate anyway&#8212;because now they're seeing the health-care law's destructive effect on the fundamental nature of the way their care is delivered.

Even before the ACA's launch in 2013, many physicians&#8212;seeing the changes in their profession that lay ahead&#8212;had begun talking their children out of going to medical school. After the launch, compensation fell, while nothing in the ACA stopped lawsuits and malpractice premiums from rising. Doctors must now see many more patients each day to meet expenses, all while dealing with the mountains of paperwork mandated by the health-care law.

Read more here

Bradley Allen: ObamaCare 2016: Happy Yet? - WSJ.com


----------



## Edgetho (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> > I can for a fact stay with my current provider.
> ...




1.  Many, if not most, of the premium quotes have been off by as much as 50%....  Not in the Insured's favor, either.

2.  You do plan on getting older, right?

3.  What happens when you reach 60 and have to pay exorbitant premiums in order to subsidize Suzy's Birth Control Pills and abortions?  

You know, that age when you'd like to retire young enough that you can actually enjoy life for a few more years but can't because you're paying out the ass for Insurance?  Believe me when I tell you -- I KNOW what that's like 

The ACA is a Train Wreck.

But it's from the minds of dimocraps.  What else could you expect?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

martybegan said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



He's basically a human spambot.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



He may be one of the paid Obama shills sent to websites to deflect and spread misinformation

-Geaux


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> ba1614 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Dude, just STOP.  FUCKING.  LYING.  My wife had knee surgery a few years ago.  She did have to wait, though...had to wait two days for an MRI, one day for her orthopedist to arrange things, and then two more days for the surgery.  From first call to her doctor to surgery was ONE WEEK.  It cost her, IIRC, about $100 in copays.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> None of JoeBs narrative rings true, not that he was a Republican not that he has Cuban friends who miss living under Fidel not his "insurance" story, none of it



My wife is Cuban, and her father says that anyone who prefers Cuba's "medical care" to the US should be locked up; they are clearly _non compos mentis_.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

asterism said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still waiting to hear from someone who supposedly just loooved his non-compliant policy...
> ...



I'll take that.  Honestly, I WANT a high-deductible plan!  ALL I WANT is a catastrophic care plan.  That's ALL I WANT!  I do not need coverage for maternity, fertility treatments, hair replacement, or Botox.


----------



## Vox (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Blah, blah, blah... we didn't get health reform because the insurance industry was doing a bang-up job.
> 
> We got it because people looked at folks like Nataline Sarkisyan, who was denied a liver transplant because it cost too much, but Cigna still paid its CEO $83,000,000 to not work anymore.
> 
> Seriously, fuck the insurance industry.



I can assure you that some Sarkizyan girl won't get any transplants if there are more important folks in line for tha. Both this crap obamacare, but much more the recent debacle with a court deciding on who fits and who does not very strict transplant medical criteria which jydges have no business in deciding on - those two screwed transplant surgery in this country


----------



## Edgetho (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Uhhh....  Dewd....

Tough shit.  You're gonna get it, you're gonna like it and you're gonna pay for it.

Why?

Because obama says so, that's why


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi! I am a retard! I want to be denied skin cancer treatment because I had a mole removed when I was 7 years old. And I want to pay for the right to be denied! Freeeeedom!


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > martybegan said:
> ...



If he's getting more than $100/year...he's overcharging!


----------



## TooTall (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Hi! I am a retard! I want to be denied skin cancer treatment because I had a mole removed when I was 7 years old. And I want to pay for the right to be denied! Freeeeedom!



I want the freedom to pay for a mole removal, be it cancerous or not, out of my own pocket instead of paying monthly for the removal of your and my mole.  I prefer paying for a catastrophic health insurance policy, at a lot less pre month, that covers major cancer treatment, but Obama decided that he was a lot smarter than me and better at managing my money.
He isn't!


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



the problem with these so-called to high policy's are cases where the person received their new health care premium and it went up  drastically ... these people instead of going to the web site wrote a letter to their congress person complaining about Obama care not allowing them to keep their plan like Obama said and keep their doctor.... they didn't go or call the ACA for information on their policy here is a prime example below 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-7FS-PlxCc]Another Obamacare Horror Story Debunked - YouTube[/ame]


none of these people on any news show asked her if she had gone to the ACA web site to see what it would cost her... they just assumed she went there,,,


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

TooTall said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Hi! I am a retard! I want to be denied skin cancer treatment because I had a mole removed when I was 7 years old. And I want to pay for the right to be denied! Freeeeedom!
> ...



Sorry. We decided that this country will be better off doing it our way. 


Isn't it great! The American people heard every lie, every misrepresentation, every expression of outrage......that nutters across the land could dream up. And then we decided that we were not convinced.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



have you gone to the ACA web site???? Doubt it


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> [quo
> 
> Agreed.. Obama did not like the fact that those of us who did not make much money, still found a way to cover our families with the policy we could afford. He cried foul and decided to take our little money, then charge us more under threat of fine, to pay for deadbeats and lowlifes who would not give up a cell phone, a night out on the town etc, to pay for healthcare.
> 
> ...



Guy, if your CleetusCare is being cancelled, it was because you were being ripped off with a policy that wasn't any good.  

I mean, you get this, right?  That what you had before didn't actually cover anything?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

TooTall said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Hi! I am a retard! I want to be denied skin cancer treatment because I had a mole removed when I was 7 years old. And I want to pay for the right to be denied! Freeeeedom!
> ...



The problem is you act like the CEO of a big insurance company, whose only real goal is to make money for his investors, is any more interested in managing your healthcare. 

When often, just letting you die AFTER they have your money is the easiest way to go.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > None of JoeBs narrative rings true, not that he was a Republican not that he has Cuban friends who miss living under Fidel not his "insurance" story, none of it
> ...



The exile community is not noted for its objectivity about Cuba.  

But the stats are that Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than we do, and life expectancy in Cuba is 79.1 years compared to 78 in the USA.  

Amazing given that we embargo medicines and economically punish the country for rejecting us.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



And you could probably get that.  Frankly, that's what I have, and it's completely ACA compliant.  

Also, you said you were married, so isn't there a possibility your spouse could have a baby? Then wouldn't maternity coverage be kind of sensible?  

Finally, on pre-existing conditions, here's the problem.  You never know what they are going to call a pre-existing condition. 

Example.  You get diagnosed with Cancer, and the next week, you lose your job. 

Next company that hires you can say, "Nope. Pre-existing condition. We ain't covering that!"


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Vox said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Blah, blah, blah... we didn't get health reform because the insurance industry was doing a bang-up job.
> ...



I think you need to read up on the case.  

There was a liver available.  Cigna refused to pay for it because they called it "expiramental" surgery, even though it had been performed on numerous other patients and she had a 50% survival expectation.  

Her father sued, but was told by a court that since the insurance contract was between his employer and Cigna, he didn't have standing.  

Then when Angry Mobs started protesting outside Cigna's offices, Ed Hanaway, all around scumwad, relented and allowed the payment, but by that time, the girl was too far gone to undergo the operation.  

Seriously. Fuck insurance companies.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



Fuck you.

He escaped with his daughter because that rotten, corrupt regime covered for the man who raped and murdered his wife.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

it amazes me ... we see these three people on Hannity show, we see this realtor woman, on Cnn, they are all ragging about how they won't get to keep their plan, which by the way is the worst plan they could get .... but not one of them went to the ACA web site to see what it would cost them ... they all got their increases from the provider or the provider telling them they are canceling their policy because they don't qualify for the ACA health care program ... they tell them they have to go to this new policy which cost them way to much money .... not one of them went to the ACA web site to actually see what it will cost them .... they are republicans, who have been duped in believing the ACA is a horrible plan... after real reporters went to them, asking them questions real questions instead of letting them ragg about it ... it all turned out that they didn't go to the web site ... or like one of the  republicans on hannity show  hate Obama so much that he would rather misquote his health care cost and look the fool that's he's looking like now on a national program ... come to find out the plan will cost them less money and they get a 10 times better plan ...


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



Uh, huh.  

Do you have proof of that story?  Because honestly, I'm a little bit dubious of anything the exiles say.

And what does that have to do with the quality of their medical care system, anyway?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



No, I can't.  Liz can't...in fact, she had the option to get it, but no longer does.



> Also, you said you were married, so isn't there a possibility your spouse could have a baby? Then wouldn't maternity coverage be kind of sensible?



The chance of my wife having a baby is--exactly--zero.



> Finally, on pre-existing conditions, here's the problem.  You never know what they are going to call a pre-existing condition.
> 
> Example.  You get diagnosed with Cancer, and the next week, you lose your job.
> 
> Next company that hires you can say, "Nope. Pre-existing condition. We ain't covering that!"



Don't care.  If I am ever diagnosed with cancer, I will eat my shotgun within 24 hours.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > [quo
> ...



the sad part here is they don't get it ... cause that would have to get them to understand what they were getting ... that they are too lazy to go to the web site to see actually what it would cost them


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Finally, on pre-existing conditions, here's the problem.  You never know what they are going to call a pre-existing condition.
> ...



Well, while I'm sure that Big Insurance would LOVE to offer that as a treatment option, most of us sensible people would find that a bit harsh.  

Hey, you know what, both of my parents died from cancer, and they still fought bravely against it every step of the way.   I don't think I would want "you can always eat your shotgun" to have been a treatment option.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Well, to be fair, the website has been kind of a hot mess that people can't get on.  

The reality is, most of us don't find out how good or bad our insurance is until we actually get sick.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



would you like some salt and pepper with that shot gun???? you can tell a obama hater when you read one ... its hate this hate that, hate !!! hate !!!  hate !!!!


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



That's sane.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



Are we going to do this again? Have you forgotten what happened the last time you misunderstood one of my posts? It was not pretty.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> it amazes me ... we see these three people on Hannity show, we see this realtor woman, on Cnn, they are all ragging about how they won't get to keep their plan, which by the way is the worst plan they could get .... but not one of them went to the ACA web site to see what it would cost them ... they all got their increases from the provider or the provider telling them they are canceling their policy because they don't qualify for the ACA health care program ... they tell them they have to go to this new policy which cost them way to much money .... not one of them went to the ACA web site to actually see what it will cost them .... they are republicans, who have been duped in believing the ACA is a horrible plan... after real reporters went to them, asking them questions real questions instead of letting them ragg about it ... it all turned out that they didn't go to the web site ... or like one of the  republicans on hannity show  hate Obama so much that he would rather misquote his health care cost and look the fool that's he's looking like now on a national program ... come to find out the plan will cost them less money and they get a 10 times better plan ...



All spin to get your messiah out of his lies, "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period." Luckily, he has loyal faggots like you that will tow his line even if he says 2+2=5 ......


----------



## Vox (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...


Only an idiot moonbat woukd believe the 'stats' a commi regime is producing. Mortality and morbidity stats in Stalin's USSR circa 1933 were also nice and peachy, while millions were starving to death because of the artificial famine in Ukraine.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



once again the media has convinced you that the web site is down the majority of the time ... I've check it each day 3 times ... each time I went there it was functioning  ...I've checked this morning  !!!! I was there in a blink of a eye...  like I've said the majority of these people complaining about their plan going up,which by they way the cost increase has come from their provider and not the ACA web site ... I suggest you to go there and see if it cost you less ...I've sigh up the second day I got through with no problem I guess thats because Our governor is a democrat and has the site running.... all I know is its costing way less money and it is costing me 300 less ...


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I have had a insurance plan all my life ... I made sure that I had one ...no matter what ...


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > it amazes me ... we see these three people on Hannity show, we see this realtor woman, on Cnn, they are all ragging about how they won't get to keep their plan, which by the way is the worst plan they could get .... but not one of them went to the ACA web site to see what it would cost them ... they all got their increases from the provider or the provider telling them they are canceling their policy because they don't qualify for the ACA health care program ... they tell them they have to go to this new policy which cost them way to much money .... not one of them went to the ACA web site to actually see what it will cost them .... they are republicans, who have been duped in believing the ACA is a horrible plan... after real reporters went to them, asking them questions real questions instead of letting them ragg about it ... it all turned out that they didn't go to the web site ... or like one of the  republicans on hannity show  hate Obama so much that he would rather misquote his health care cost and look the fool that's he's looking like now on a national program ... come to find out the plan will cost them less money and they get a 10 times better plan ...
> ...



as the stupid people speak this clown is the typical uneducated repub-lie-tarded fool who hate dems/liberals at all cost soooo much that they refuse to go and look for themselves ... stay stupid, *
DICK SMOKER*  ...​


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



yes you lost it ... then I owned you the rest of the day ... ya want to get you ass kicked again have at it fool!!!


----------



## Wildman (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> I can for a fact stay with my current provider.
> 
> I suppose it could be interpreted that I am keeping my plan and "choosing" to add provisions making it ACA compliant. But why would I choose to add maternity coverage and other required elements? We certainly don't NEED maternity. I also would NOT choose to increase my deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. I've done so in the past, but only as a means of reducing the premiums.
> 
> ...




i like the  "Fuck him." part, and it should be done with a* red hot* iron fence post  ...


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



Like any other typical Obamabot, your faggot ass is no different. Obama and the dems knowingly lied to the american people. Obama said repeatedly "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period". He didn't say "were going to get you off the insurance you have now because the exchanges will offer better plans".  Dickless wonders like you will spin and deflect it any way you can rather than admitting your heroes lied....


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I watched someone go through chemo.  He wished every day he hadn't done it and died in agony after being basically an invalid for 2 years.  Letting a DOG go through what a cancer patient goes through would get you locked up.  No fucking way.  Not worth it.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



_Da fuck you smokin, boy?_


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > driveby said:
> ...


PUFF !!! PUFF !!! dick smoker ... *XXXXXXXXXX*


----------



## Wildman (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> it amazes me ... we see these three people on Hannity show, we see this realtor woman, on Cnn, they are all ragging about how they won't get to keep their plan, which by the way is the worst plan they could get .... but not one of them went to the ACA web site to see what it would cost them ... they all got their increases from the provider or the provider telling them they are canceling their policy because they don't qualify for the ACA health care program ... they tell them they have to go to this new policy which cost them way to much money .... not one of them went to the ACA web site to actually see what it will cost them .... they are republicans, who have been duped in believing the ACA is a horrible plan... after real reporters went to them, asking them questions real questions instead of letting them ragg about it ... it all turned out that they didn't go to the web site ... or like one of the  republicans on hannity show  hate Obama so much that he would rather misquote his health care cost and look the fool that's he's looking like now on a national program ... come to find out the plan will cost them less money and they get a 10 times better plan ...



soooooo, you like Maobamacare, aka, ACA, have you signed up already ?? how is it compared to what you had prior to Maobamacare ?  i'll bet you are just so thrilled you are in a constant state of sexual arousal


----------



## Darkwind (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


In fact, they haven't.  The media has done an exemplary job in making sure that the truth about Obamacare won't reach them until they actually are forced to sign up.  Of course, by that time, it is far to late to save their sorry asses.

The pendulum will swing yet again and then WE are going to decide that this country is better off when people are responsible for their own lives.

I pray that you survive it, because that would be the best revenge.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



I with draw my do you want salt and pepper statement ... I too have seen it being given and I'm currently seen two other of my friends going through Chemo ... its not pretty ... my friends sister is alive today because of the treatment ... there are no guarantees when it comes to the treatment ...  that's a choice you have to make ... I not sure what I'd do


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> [
> 
> I watched someone go through chemo.  He wished every day he hadn't done it and died in agony after being basically an invalid for 2 years.  Letting a DOG go through what a cancer patient goes through would get you locked up.  No fucking way.  Not worth it.



And I've seen people go through Chemo and actually get better.  So there's that. 

Of course, if an insurance company lets you die, it's just business. 

if the government does it, it's a "Death Panel".


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

If you don't have the money to pay, you die.

Can't expect someone else to pay for you

-Geaux


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Wildman said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > it amazes me ... we see these three people on Hannity show, we see this realtor woman, on Cnn, they are all ragging about how they won't get to keep their plan, which by the way is the worst plan they could get .... but not one of them went to the ACA web site to see what it would cost them ... they all got their increases from the provider or the provider telling them they are canceling their policy because they don't qualify for the ACA health care program ... they tell them they have to go to this new policy which cost them way to much money .... not one of them went to the ACA web site to actually see what it will cost them .... they are republicans, who have been duped in believing the ACA is a horrible plan... after real reporters went to them, asking them questions real questions instead of letting them ragg about it ... it all turned out that they didn't go to the web site ... or like one of the  republicans on hannity show  hate Obama so much that he would rather misquote his health care cost and look the fool that's he's looking like now on a national program ... come to find out the plan will cost them less money and they get a 10 times better plan ...
> ...



if you're serious, as for the other guy, if he wants to talk trash, I can talk trash too ...  for right, now I'll tell you what I had and what I have now ... 
my plan was through covered colorado .... it cost me $550.00 a month I have a 5000 dollar deductible and no max payout with a 25 dollar copay ...  when I went through the ACA site and selected the plan I want its costing me 251. 21 a month with a 250 dollar deductible, with a max payout of 2000 dollars ... 15 dollar copay ... it covers all the time I go and not just two and yes I happy as hell that I will be saving 300 each and every month


----------



## Mad_Cabbie (Nov 2, 2013)

Wow! What did I get myself into?!? 

New to this place, if I offer my opinion, will I get trashed??? LOL!

I understand the whole "people should pay their own way" stuff, but as of yet, they haven't ... to the tune of 50 billion a year in unpaid hospital bills. While I don't completely agree with the ACA, it sure beats the current system.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> if you're serious, as for the other guy, if he wants to talk trash, I can talk trash too ...  for right, now I'll tell you what I had and what I have now ...
> my plan was through covered colorado .... it cost me $550.00 a month I have a 5000 dollar deductible and no max payout with a 25 dollar copay ...  when I went through the ACA site and selected the plan I want it its costing me 251. 21 a month with a 250 dollar deductible, with a max payout of 2000 dollars ... 15 dollar copay ... it covers all the time I go and not just two and yes I happy as hell that I will be saving 300 each and every month



Which plan in what exchange ?


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

for the dick smoker on the board driveby ... I could care less about what obama said or didn't say ... all I care about is what's it going to cost me ...so you stay stupid ... most repub-lie-tard  dick smokers are


----------



## Mad_Cabbie (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> for the dick smoker on the board driveby ... I could care less about what obama said or didn't say ... all I care about is what's it going to cost me ...so you stay stupid ... most repub-lie-tard  dick smokers are



Dude, do you think that anyone is going to take you serious with this kind of stuff?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> for the dick smoker on the board driveby ... I could care less about what obama said or didn't say ... all I care about is what's it going to cost me ...so you stay stupid ... most repub-lie-tard  dick smokers are









Well, what that guy said is classified as fraudulent statements. 

*Fraud*

A false representation of a matter of factwhether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations,* or by concealment of what should have been disclosed*that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.

Fraud is commonly understood as dishonesty calculated for advantage. A person who is dishonest may be called a fraud. In the U.S. legal system, fraud is a specific offense with certain features.

Fraud is most common in the buying or selling of property, including real estate, Personal Property, and intangible property, such as stocks, bonds, and copyrights. State and federal statutes criminalize fraud, but not all cases rise to the level of criminality. Prosecutors have discretion in determining which cases to pursue. Victims may also seek redress in civil court.

Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.
​


Because of his obvious act of fraud you and I will be paying much more for insurance, and you and I will have less options on who will be able to treat us, which hospitals we choose to be treated in, which doctors we choose to give us that treatment. 

You cannot tell me that just because he has been caught committing fraud red-handed he won't do it again or he won't bullshit you about everything else. The point of this all is, how can a society survive when the guy on the top cannot be trusted?

Unfortunately you're a liberal. You assume that everyone is dishonest.


----------



## Intense (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Wow! What did I get myself into?!?
> 
> New to this place, if I offer my opinion, will I get trashed??? LOL!
> 
> I understand the whole "people should pay their own way" stuff, but as of yet, they haven't ... to the tune of 50 billion a year in unpaid hospital bills. While I don't completely agree with the ACA, it sure beats the current system.



Either that or it compounds the damage being done by those that exploit and cheat the current system. What exactly does the ACA reward?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

These elements contain nuances that are not all easily proved. First, not all false statements are fraudulent. To be fraudulent, a false statement must relate to a material fact. It should also substantially affect a person's decision to enter into a contract or pursue a certain course of action. A false statement of fact that does not bear on the disputed transaction will not be considered fraudulent.

Second, the defendant must know that the statement is untrue. A statement of fact that is simply mistaken is not fraudulent. To be fraudulent, a false statement must be made with intent to deceive the victim. This is perhaps the easiest element to prove, once falsity and materiality are proved, because most material false statements are designed to mislead.

Third, the false statement must be made with the intent to deprive the victim of some legal right.

Fourth, the victim's reliance on the false statement must be reasonable. Reliance on a patently absurd false statement generally will not give rise to fraud; however, people who are especially gullible, superstitious, or ignorant or who are illiterate may recover damages for fraud if the defendant knew and took advantage of their condition.

*Finally, the false statement must cause the victim some injury that leaves her or him in a worse position than she or he was in before the fraud.*​
fraud legal definition of fraud. fraud synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Wow! What did I get myself into?!?
> 
> New to this place, if I offer my opinion, will I get trashed??? LOL!
> 
> I understand the whole "people should pay their own way" stuff, but as of yet, they haven't ... to the tune of 50 billion a year in unpaid hospital bills. While I don't completely agree with the ACA, it sure beats the current system.



You only think that because a bunch of Beltway scam-artists (Democrats) told you the ACA was better than the current system. 

Fact is, Congress has been screwing with the system for years forcing out doctors with their ridiculous regulations. They have been setting this up since Bush was first elected. They tried springing Hillary care on us and we didn't buy it, so they intentionally started making it harder for medical providers to operate in the U.S. giving us the impression that health care was out of control.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! What did I get myself into?!?
> ...



Not really. 

It really is out of control, mostly because there's a lot of money to be made.  

We spend twice what other industrialized countries do per capita, and we get the world's worst results.  

We have the lowest life expectency in the industrialized world, we have the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world, and 62% of bankruptcies are linked to medical crisis.  

Our system is broken.  

The ACA fixes some problems. It also creates some problems.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Mad_Cabbie said:
> ...



What has the ACA fixed?

Enlighten me.

And don't give me that bs about pre-existing conditions. Taking into account almost 2 million healthy individuals just got their insurance cancelled, and millions more are on the way, that just doesn't hold water.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> What has the ACA fixed?
> 
> ...



Insurance companies have to spend 80% of their budgets on treatments. 
Pre-existing conditions can no longer be excluded.
Family planning services can no longer be excluded.

Cancelling a policy that was inadeqate is like grounding an airplane that is not airworthy.... it's generally considered a good thing.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



So, in this case, big government is OK to decide what is 'adequate' when the end user already had 'adequate' coverage which met their individual needs?

-Geaux


----------



## Mad_Cabbie (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> What has the ACA fixed?
> 
> Enlighten me.
> 
> And don't give me that bs about pre-existing conditions. Taking into account almost 2 million healthy individuals just got their insurance cancelled, and millions more are on the way, that just doesn't hold water.



A rather broad-based question ... like asking me to explain why republicans or demacrats are wrong - I don't have all day to explain.

I have explained already about the 50 billion a year we taxpayers shell out to bail out the hospitals (thought most conservatives hated bail-outs?)

That's just a start.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> [
> 
> So, in this case, big government is OK to decide what is 'adequate' when the end user already had 'adequate' coverage which met their individual needs?
> 
> -Geaux



Um, yeah... 

Just like the government can tell you that your car with the shot brakes and the black smoke pouring out the back of it is unsafe even if you think it's "Adequate".


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Apples and oranges..

Machine vs the human body....

-Geaux


----------



## Mad_Cabbie (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> So, in this case, big government is OK to decide what is 'adequate' when the end user already had 'adequate' coverage which met their individual needs?
> 
> -Geaux



All people had adiquate coverage? Me thinks only a select few. 

A capped high deductible policy is hardly a saftey net that would prevent Uncle Sam from having to pick up the tab in the event of an enourmous calamity.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > So, in this case, big government is OK to decide what is 'adequate' when the end user already had 'adequate' coverage which met their individual needs?
> ...



It was adequate within their fiscal means.

Who said the government has to pick up the tab?

-Geaux


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)




----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



OK.  Lets have some fun. 

What part of what I said made you question whether or not I had visited Healthcare.gov? 

Further, what was I trying to say in that post? Have you a guess?

Please, have a change of heart and become a nutter. You are an embarrassment.


----------



## Trajan (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > [quo
> ...



your opinion of his coverage means - poop. I didn't see him complain, if he had a plan he was content with, what do you care? who the F do you think you are?


----------



## Trajan (Nov 2, 2013)

asterism said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > gallantwarrior said:
> ...



Lone Laugher?


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

Trajan said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



I have asked for the questioner to give some thought to the possible answers first. I am tired of giving out free lessons here. Lets see if the questioner has any idea why I might have said something like that first. There are a ton of reasons why we should all foot the bill for shit like maternity care. Big picture stuff.


----------



## Trajan (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



you're so full of shit, I mean really. 

Juts say it,..........


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

Trajan said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



Whatever.  You suck in general. What now?


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

Personal responsibility is apparently a confusing topic to many here.  

As is insurance. 

As is experience with countries that have no choice but to offer no alternative to natural consequences. 

Let's take them one at a time.

Personal responsibility means taking reasonable precautions against burdening other lives with yours. 

Insurance is a financial mechanism for spreading risk.  If policy holders pay for the average cost of the consequences covered,  than those more lucky than average pay for those more unlucky. 

Poverty is unavoidable.  Humans are hard wired to survive.  When faced with survival threats those without resources will get them.  If there are no jobs available,  they will still get them. So the alternative to welfare is crime.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



It's been proven in this thread and many others that your assertions are dead wrong, it wasn't a difficult task either......


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



Interesting perspective.  You are right in your mind so,  therefore,  everyone's.


----------



## Mad_Cabbie (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Who "said?" _They do_ ... it matters NOT who "said."

Bad medical debts are passed down to the tax payer via government help.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



You and reading comprehension get along like Obama and the truth........


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



Yeah........no it hasn't. I wish I had a nickel for every direct question I have asked on these forums and gotten zero in reply. Nutters seem to dislike answering questions.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Mad_Cabbie said:
> ...



Much of conservatism is based on the idea that there are free lunches and they deserve them. 

The truth,  as you point out,  is that there are none.

People made poor by the unwillingness of businesses to pay a living wage for full time work,  don't save us money. They just sweep the cost of survival under the rug to the taxpayers.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



Just because you don't like the reply doesn't mean there wasn't one. Since when do liberals answer questions anyway? They're taught to not answer questions by such wonderful minds like Lakoff and Alinsky........

Case in point, not one of you clowns have answered Mac's questions......


----------



## LoneLaugher (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > driveby said:
> ...



Silliness. I said I get zero replies in many cases. That is to pointed questions directed at an individual who has made a claim of some kind. Nutters run when questioned.

And when nutters ask questions, they go something like this:

What has Obama done that is good for the middle class? Or...."Prove that liberals are not really socialists and want to shred the Constitution!" Or...they ask the same question over and over and bore others to death......"If we ban guns, why don't we ban cars or bathtubs??"

BTW.....Mac does not ask questions. He makes statements with question marks at the end. And...all Mac wants is for people to agree that we are all screwed.....but are too stupid to know it....and that PC is the worst horror ever to befall mankind.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

007 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


So is Lone Lunger.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Hi! I am a retard! I want to be denied skin cancer treatment because I had a mole removed when I was 7 years old. And I want to pay for the right to be denied! Freeeeedom!



What makes you think you have the authority to dictate what other people should want?

And no, "I'm a progressive!!" is not sufficient reason...but it's the only one you've got, isn't it?


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


Scratch a leftist, find a fascist.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Man, you're hooked through the bag by Communists, aren't you?

Fucking _pathetic_.


----------



## rdean (Nov 2, 2013)

Nothing in the law says you couldn't keep your insurance.

Unless, 

they used less than 80% of the money for your needs.  Doesn't everyone want insurance companies to use at least 80% of what they take in on actual patients and not dividends?

That's part of the Health care law.

If insurance companies throw out non competitive policies, of course they cancel them to put out more competitive polices.  That's the insurance companies, not the law.

Another Obamacare horror story debunked - 

There is no insurance for "stupid".  You just have to accept the GOP for who they are and limit their damage.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Hi! I am a retard! I want to be denied skin cancer treatment because I had a mole removed when I was 7 years old. And I want to pay for the right to be denied! Freeeeedom!
> ...



" What makes you think you have the authority to dictate what other people should want?"

Nobody dictates what others want. 

In a democracy,  the majority elects representatives to legislate the consequences to people who act to impose on others. 

Freedom is when others can't impose on you.  Freedom of speech is when others can't censor you.  Freedom of religion is when others have to let you worship as you will.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Much of conservatism is based on the idea that there are free lunches and they deserve them.



If you have to lie to make your point, your point isn't worth making.


----------



## Vox (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...





JoeB131 said:


> Pre-existing conditions can no longer be excluded.



They NEVER were





JoeB131 said:


> Family planning services can no longer be excluded.



They NEVER were


JoeB131 said:


> Cancelling a policy that was inadeqate is like grounding an airplane that is not airworthy.... it's generally considered a good thing.



it's none of your business to poke your nose into my insurance and deem what is adequate and what is not. It is adequate FOR ME - and that is what is needed.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Much of conservatism is based on the idea that there are free lunches and they deserve them.
> ...



I agree.  That's why I don't.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


Progressives determine that what people want is wrong, so they then dictate what they may have.

Progressives are totalitarians.  It's undeniable.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



You forgot to include some content in your posts.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Yet another lie.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


There's plenty of content in that one, to those who aren't willfully ignorant of both history and current events.

Run along now.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

rdean said:


> Nothing in the law says you couldn't keep your insurance.
> 
> Unless,
> 
> ...



It's sort of bizarre how conservatives now support slimy companies offering deceptive products rather than responsible business.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing in the law says you couldn't keep your insurance.
> ...


If you were too stupid to read the fine print, that's your problem.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...



Ahhh,  the dark heart of a slimy businessman revealed.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

rdean said:


> Nothing in the law says you couldn't keep your insurance.
> 
> Unless,
> 
> ...



Uh......are you trying to prove our case our the White House's.


Because this all seems to center on what are the requirements of the new law. That's the sticking point. 

1. The ACA made affordable health care insurance less affordable

2. The ACA taxes what they call "Cadillac Health Plans" which are plans that give you great coverage

3. The insurance companies are only trying to remain in compliance to ACA rules and regulations


Seems to me there is nothing being "debunked" here other than the insurance companies are just out for themselves. Obama says they have to comply, drop their customers, or go out of business. Seems to me this is all pretty cut and dried.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Yeah, like everyone who voted for Obamacare. 

*"We have to pass it to find out what's in it!!!"
*
Thanks for setting the record straight.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Wildman said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



What kind of subsidies do you qualify for?


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing in the law says you couldn't keep your insurance.
> ...


 
Ultimate goal...SINGLE PAYER...Obama has stated it...before he was POTUS...


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Ahhh, the vacuous skull of a nanny-state supporter revealed.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fpAyan1fXCE]Obama on single payer health insurance - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


 
And without business? Where would you be Poindexter? YOU have no clue, do you? YOU would be a serf farming for your rulers.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

This is basically what liberals believe in told to us by somebody who knew what he was talking about.....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9qDRZ6pSRE]Best Reagan Clips from 1980 Carter debate - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Responsible,  competent government leads to successful countries. That's true no matter what the detractors of our success call it.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Strange how history keeps repeating itself over and over where liberals are concerned.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Ask Germany or any of our allies if we're responsible or competent.


----------



## Trajan (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



translation- I won't answer becasue I'd get pwned..... 

you are just a pathological lefty who has run out of excuses and BS when the bomb of their incompetence has gone off laying bare their lies.......


Oh, tissue?


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


 
So YOU admit it...this government is a failure...it is NOT responsible...what YOU mean is the Government thinks the PEOPLE aren't and therefore MUST make decisions for the people because the PEOPLE are deemed by this gubmint to be too stupid for their own good.

NICE elitist attitude you have there, buckey...NOT.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



This Reagan discussing "Responsible Government".

It is also a warning against leaders like Obama. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi3x7mmywDE]Ronald Reagan: A Time For Choosing (1964: Warns Of NWO) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

It's amazing how much of this is not new and has been repeated a generation ago and generations before.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



A leader like Obama. 

One that saves the country from his predecessor? 

One that achieves progress even when the other party has no objectives other than his and the country's failure? 

One that gets re-elected based on his accomplishments over the first term? 

A half baked actor doesn't need to teach America about such a leader.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



That's absolutely hilarious. 

Obama is nothing but an actor.

Reagan was paid in the private sector to be one. Obama is paid by us to be one. Reagan became our leader for 8 years and never took a cent for it. Obama claims he's leading but isn't accountable for anything, and for this we have to pay him handsomely for it. 

Obama can't be blamed for anything that his administration does yet he wants to be called a leader. 

That is funny as hell. 


Response???


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> It's amazing how much of this is not new and has been repeated a generation ago and generations before.


 
And that's the rub, isn't it? For far too many? History begins from the day they were born. NONE of this has ever happened before...therefore...history MUST be revised to cloak the truth they fear.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



my sister is a nurse ... at one time she pushed Chemo work with a lot of people ... She would say more people are alive today because of the chemo verse the number of people who aren't ... the ones who usually don't make it are to far with the disease ... its the people who go to the doctor twice a year... get check ups  twice a year, that seem to do better with disease being healed


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Wow! What did I get myself into?!?
> 
> New to this place, if I offer my opinion, will I get trashed??? LOL!
> 
> I understand the whole "people should pay their own way" stuff, but as of yet, they haven't ... to the tune of 50 billion a year in unpaid hospital bills. While I don't completely agree with the ACA, it sure beats the current system.



ain't that the truth ...


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > for the dick smoker on the board driveby ... I could care less about what obama said or didn't say ... all I care about is what's it going to cost me ...so you stay stupid ... most repub-lie-tard  dick smokers are
> ...



dude !!!!!!!!  do I care what you thinK ???? that would be a big fat noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > for the dick smoker on the board driveby ... I could care less about what obama said or didn't say ... all I care about is what's it going to cost me ...so you stay stupid ... most repub-lie-tard  dick smokers are
> ...



*and the stupid ones keep getting stupider​*


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 2, 2013)




----------



## RandallFlagg (Nov 2, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


>




If only.


----------



## Mad_Cabbie (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



Um ... OK.

Maybe a few more giant fonts then?


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



well if you went to ,the site and look at what you might pay and if you can't get through the site call them, they will show you what you will get ... verses what you have ...  9 times out of ten it will be a better plan 10 times better then the one you have... they problem you have is you don't know what they hell you're talking about ... you'll g to some right wing whacked out talking point site and never go look for yourself ... that the problem you have ... because I know what they are3 offering and it appears you don't ...


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 2, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > No. Nobody will have premiums of $20,000.
> ...





LoneLaugher said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



you sir are sooooooooooooooo uninformed  ... what is adequate needs ... if you have a 5000 deductible and you need some kind of surgery not only will it cost you 5000 but usually you'll pay the difference of 20% to 40% depending on your plan ... if that person files bankruptcy ... who pays???? you'll pay.... with the current plan you have...  that's who !!!!  usually with those plans they will do and say everything they can to not pay and again you pay for their stupidity of buying a plan that they thing well if I get cancer or something I'll pay 5000 dollars and the insurer pays the rest .... whart they do is they cancel you, or raise your rates so high you can't afford it ... that's a better system ???? tell me how that's a better system ....


----------



## Londoner (Nov 2, 2013)

Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.

(and you can't stop it)


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



great answer


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 2, 2013)

Londoner said:


> Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.
> 
> (and you can't stop it)



My brother had a decent affordable insurance policy.  $156/month, $3k deductible, coverage for his needs.  Now? You're right, it's dead.  Now he has to pay for coverage for maternity, newborn, pediatric care (including vision and dental), meds coverage (he doesn't need it), rehab care (he doesn't need that either).  His premium will be at least doubled, deductible w/be $5k.  Yeah, that's just great. The obama and dems, party of choice as long as it's their choice.  Fuck you.


----------



## Trajan (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



its all about what 'you will get', right. 


why should they even have to, if they are happy with what they have? So lets say they have to, and do,  and they will not receive a commensurate plan...what then?


----------



## Trajan (Nov 2, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> Londoner said:
> 
> 
> > Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.
> ...



lone laugher is s still working on a response...stay tuned.


----------



## Vox (Nov 2, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> Londoner said:
> 
> 
> > Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.
> ...



he needs to pay for a fat illegal with her anchor babies and all others who are damn too lazy to pay for themselves.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



Wow, you sure made me look silly with that spurious comment. lol.

How can I ever recover........


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Sorry, but I can't get in.

Besides, I'd rather not put my personal information in harms way just to prove a point to some Napoleon Dynamite lookalike.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



What country were you living in in 2007, 08, 09 when we were reeling from conservative government?  

The country just can't afford it any more.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



there you go again embarrassing youself again ... talking about thing you have no idea about ... do you like making a fool of your self ???  no you haven't gone to the web site ... i know you'll tell me you did, but that's what liars do... they lie the tell you have embarrassed yourself... thinking you nailed me ... what you did was show how ignorant you really are ...


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Also very wrong. It's more like choosing to own a Neon instead of a Lincoln. A Lincoln that works only if you don't have to use it. 

Insurance should be an option, not a mandate. 

This is welfare that has to be paid for by the recipient.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Trajan said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



loan laugher doesn't get it ... its all about her and nothing more ...


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



I have a pretty good memory of 07-09.

Who was in charge of Congress????

Huh?????

Democrats??????


Notice everything was fine till those lying pricks took over.


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



well, lone laugher looks like another one nailed you ....or as they say owns you ...  that's whats now


----------



## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...


driveby is I hate liberals/dems everything ... what ever they say I'll call them a nasty name ... then when you respond driveby reports you  ... don't waste your time on driveby ... they are big babies cowards at best, who dishies it out, but can't take it ... right (drive you in the ground) by


----------



## Clementine (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



Obama would love it if all of us were as stupid as most of his dependents.   Of course, when he makes statements like the one you mentioned, he is talking to those who don't pay attention to what is really going on in this country.

Many of his useful idiots don't worry about things like insurance because they understand that they will be provided for courtesy of the evil tax payers.   Even though they know many lost their insurance plans, they figure we all deserve it for having the nerve to be more successful than they have been.   

Recently, liberals came out again with another idiotic idea based on the false assumption that everyone is stupid.       

The claim is that minority success stories are so rare, so they don't want anyone to hear them.  I guess they don't want successful minorities, like Herman Cain, Ben Carson or Walter Williams, giving other minorities any big ideas.   

Liberals blame anyone and everyone but themselves for the failure of many minorities to succeed.   When you understand that they need a large percent of the voters to be complete idiots to keep the liberal politicians in power, you understand why they do what they do.   

Here we have them appeasing the uneducated and lazy.    They are again attacking those who succeed by suggesting that it's unfair and they don't want anyone to hear about success.   They hate it when people take charge of their own lives and do well.  If they cared about the poor, they would hold up examples of achievers and encourage it rather than mocking it as if it's a bad thing.

The real question is why don't some elevate themselves and instead look to government for all the answers.     This is where liberal programs have taken people down a dead end road.

I think becoming a doctor or CEO is unlikely after a lifetime of living on the doles like your parents and grandparents did.    With poor conditions in our schools and too many teachers who would rather indoctrinate than teach, children of uneducated welfare parents have no role models.   

Liberals want to keep it this way.   Before anyone suggests that Obama is a role model, keep in mind that he has yet to encourage people to succeed without government.   He has never worked in the private sector and is more interested in "taking care" of people, not seeing them as potential winners rather victims who cannot do anything for themselves.

One thing that may have inspired them was to hear how other poor minorities pulled themselves out of poverty and became successful.    The left is taking action to prevent those stories from being told.   They want stories of despair and people believing that turning to government and community organizers is the only hope.   The left would rather that people didn't find the strength to look to themselves and ask how they can make their own lives better.   

The best kept secret is that government doesn't create success stories, they only create dependence, and they want people to believe otherwise.   An independent population does not want or require a nanny government.   Free thinkers are enemies of the state.    Few of the people who were 5th and 6th generation welfare recipients were ever enlightened and most never stop to think that government is wrong and that is the reason they have not advanced.   The left prefers to tell them that it's the fault of the achievers, as if only so many are allowed to succeed and the rest are out of luck.   

I'm sure the liberals will show up like good little Obamabots and spew some meaningless talking points, like it makes people feel bad when others do well.   Instead of taking it as a lesson, they use it as an excuse for their own miserable failure.    If people opt to stay on welfare instead of relying more on themselves, then the liberals have won.

*Georgia University Liberals Don't Want to Hear Success Stories*No More Success Stories: University of Georgia Students Protest Excellence for Social Justice Week | Independent Journal Review


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## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



What LL doesn't realize is this is supposed to be a free country where you can't force anyone to buy anything. 

This whole thing was a farce from the beginning because it was a tax, and Obama claimed it wasn't. Yet the only way it could be ruled constitutional is if it is a tax.


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## earlycuyler (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



Inagree, but feel ALL of govrenment thinks we are stupid. We NEED to throw the bums out. ALL the bums out.


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Mad_Cabbie said:
> ...



actually you're wrong its not passed down to the tax payer at all ... what the government has done is tax companies these companies can't pass the charge on to the tax payer by raising the price on their product... 

example: the medical equipment tax ...which I have mention many times ...
they are taxed 2.2% that totals to 30 billion dollars, that goes to help pay for your insurance ... that's one way they are doing it ...so get off this the tax payers is paying for it ... they're not...


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



no you haven't


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mad_Cabbie said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Mad_Cabbie said:
> ...


*
um thats as big as it gets​​*


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Trajan said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



when the president spoke about the plan you have you can keep it he also said that the pland you have  will become better ... it seems some of the people don't understand if you keep a plan that's bad then who pays???


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## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



My plan worked well for me. It was less expensive and covered exactly what I wanted. The new plan is more expensive, covers things I don't want.


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> Londoner said:
> 
> 
> > Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.
> ...



my question to you is did your brother go to the ACA web site to get his cost ???  or did his insurer say it was going up ??? easy question...


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



another person who hasn't gone to the web site  ...


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Trajan said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



well if you want to pay a high dollar plan for a high dollar fine ... that's your choice ... but that plan has to fit the ACA reg... if you want a high dollar plan with a affordable cost, then I say why not look ... you have nothing to lose except time ...


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Vox said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Londoner said:
> ...



right where it says who is  allow to get this health care plan... number ONE .... you must be and American citizen ...  case closed ...


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


*Not to worry ... I can help the incompetent  ... all you got to do is just ask*


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## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Vox said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Illegals will get it for free, like they are now in California. American citizens will be required to get the policies and most will have to pay for it or get taxed for it.


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



what your telepnone doesn't work??? as for personal information ... you gave more personal information here then you would there ... like I said ... you have no idea what you're talking about .... you just pretend that you do ... ,and that's failing ... nothing like right wing talking points with no value ...


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Vox said:
> ...



Nobody is preventing you from being either illegal or poor.  If you think that they are getting a better deal,  go for it.


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...





mudwhistle said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



theres a difference being in charge and the majority ... I realize you don't grasp that Idea ...


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## Antares (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



Wow, what a lie.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



That's called adequate coverage.  Makes it less likely that we'll have to pay for your medical emergency.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

earlycuyler said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> ...



And then What?


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## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



No that's not my way, I realize you are a lazy lib that believes government knows better and needs to be in everyone's life and the only way you can survive is if the make decisions for you.

I know I am smart enough to find and pay for insurance I want. I am smart enough to buy my food and it is healthy, I'm smart enough to find housing that is affordable and adequate. I am also smart enough to know I feel better if I make my own decisions in life.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



The freedom that you think that the world owes you is called irresponsibility.  Most parents teach that that is not an option.


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



you righties keep repeating yourself ... I asked if you get to the point that you can't pay, who pays for your poor choice of a plan ???  that you feel you don't need to pay for when everything goes down the tubes .... and again have you looked at what they have to offer  ??? and compared it with what you have ???? more then likely you haven't


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



How about auto liability insurance?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



Driving is not a right it's a privilege.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Is this in any way related to health care insurance?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



I don't know dumb ass you tell me?
Why in the fuck did you say this?


> How about auto liability insurance?


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Vox said:
> ...



no they are not getting it free .... were ever you get that from is beyond me... the federal law says you have to be and American citizen ... if they are  in the hospital, they are taken care of thats the law... then they are  sent back to their home country ... that's the law


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## billyerock1991 (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



noting like a moronic stupid response ... us liberals are lazy yeah that's the ticket


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



You said insurance can't be mandated. 

I said how about auto liability? 

You said driving is not a right. 

WTF????????


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## Antares (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...




*and again have you looked at what they have to offer ??? and compared it with what you have ???? more then likely you haven't *

It's quite obvious you haven't.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



I think that his point is that if he doesn't have a problem,  none exists.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


No I said no such thing.


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## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Indeed.  It's a shame we have neither reasonable nor competent government.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Actually we do now thanks to a reasonable and competent electorate.  Hear that big flushing sound?  That's your movement swirling the bowl.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



" Driving is not a right it's a privilege."


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## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Strange how history keeps repeating itself over and over where liberals are concerned.


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## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Strange how history keeps repeating itself over and over where liberals are concerned.



Reagan = huge deficits. 

But they were incidental compared to the consequences of what Bush caused. 

And the deficits caused by bad business under Bush continue even today.


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## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> well if you went to ,the site and look at what you might pay and if you can't get through the site call them, they will show you what you will get ... verses what you have ...  9 times out of ten it will be a better plan 10 times better then the one you have... they problem you have is you don't know what they hell you're talking about ... you'll g to some right wing whacked out talking point site and never go look for yourself ... that the problem you have ... because I know what they are3 offering and it appears you don't ...



No.  You know what you've been told, by an Administration that thinks nothing of lying to the American people.


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## RandallFlagg (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Strange how history keeps repeating itself over and over where liberals are concerned.




BRAVO!!


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## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Trajan said:


> [
> 
> your opinion of his coverage means - poop. I didn't see him complain, if he had a plan he was content with, what do you care? who the F do you think you are?



I'm just wondering why you guys are fighting so hard for insurance companies to be able to cheat their policy holders...


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## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



I pay, just as I will with the new plan. I looked dumb shit, I have a catastrophic plan, I have a savings account to pay the deductible. 

The new plan will be over a $4000 deductible every fucking year. It covers doctors visits after the deductible, today I go to the doctor I pay $35 out of pocket. After I am stuck with the new plan, I will pay more because it will all run under insurance, so my out of pocket expense is going to go up. 

So I'm taking my saved money and figure something else to do with, so when something catastrophic happens, you will help pay for my fucking bill. Congrats dumbshit! Because dumbshit liberals think they know so much fucking more than anyone else.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


\Fucking dinging ass bitch you need to go back and read once a gain what was said.
I did not say

" insurance can't be mandated. "
Not once did I say that.
I said driving is a privilege 
You were the one that brought up the subjectt. Stop acting stupid.


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## Antares (Nov 2, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



He is doing that on purpose, just redirect him back to the conversation.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Wow, somebody REALLY doesn't understand that insurance companies make payments out of the monthly premiums everybody else pays.

Everybody else has ALWAYS paid for the care you get, and everybody else always WILL.  

Dumbass.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



My coverage is already adequate, who the fuck are you to determine what is and is not adequate? 

You going to have kids? Why the fuck should I pay for that? I will be. You eat unhealthy, I now pay for that, you smoke? I pay for that.

Who's going to pay for? Really? You are stupid enough to ask that? 

Dumbshit, in case you didn't notice, we are all going to pay, every single one of us. We are now in a huge pool and we all will now pay. 

Your unhealthy lifestyle will cost you as much as my healthy lifestyle, it won't matter. The insurance companies will make big profits and government will guarantee it every year as the get to show cause to up the premiums. 

Insurance companies are looking like a great investment, it will be government subsidized.


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## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

Londoner said:


> Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.
> 
> (and you can't stop it)


Decent and affordable is the judgement of each individual person -- not you.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


So, obviously, the answer is to increase the debt to $17 trillion dollars.

Good job, dumbass.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> Londoner said:
> 
> 
> > Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.
> ...



Liberals think government and they themselves know what is best for everyone.

You know what? They are lazy, letting the government dictate what is best for them, so they don't have to think.


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## Antares (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> Londoner said:
> 
> 
> > Plans that don't meet minimum standards for giving decent, affordable health care to Americans are going to die.
> ...



In theory, but Obama has already made that judgement.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Londoner said:
> ...



Pretty much......


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Medical device tax could kill 11 percent of U.S. med-tech jobs, AdvaMed says | MassDevice - Medical Device Industry News

Yeah.  Good job, dumbass.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



Okay, dumb fuck, go into your local California welfare department and ask if illegal aliens qualify for health care, they will tell you yes, then ask if they pay for it, they will tell that if they apply for state assistance, they can have it paid for. Really simple. 

Many illegals are treated and released daily in California, they continue to stay.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



You are, you want government to take care of everything.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Mad_Cabbie said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...


*




*


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Mad_Cabbie said:
> ...



Aren't they incredible? They think that that tax isn't going to be factored in on health care costs? I'm sure hospitals will pass it through many times over. The left is pretty naive.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



If he doesn't have a problem, none exists FOR HIM.

The left is insisting he DOES have a problem, and he must spend more money than he was to correct it.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



I'm sure it comforts you to pretend that.  

You're going to be surprised in a year.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


Yeah, still trotting out the lame ol' Blame Bush crap, I see.

Exactly as programmed.  Good robot.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Londoner said:
> ...


And I've never seen a one of them that has the personal lives in good order.

That's why they want the government to run their lives.  They screwed it up.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

Antares said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Londoner said:
> ...



All Hail Obama!

Right, USMB lefties?


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...


Their childlike thinking would be charming, if they weren't busy fucking up the country as fast as they can.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Londoner said:
> ...



His individual insure plan was cancelled and any new plan he gets through BC w/be twice as much due to the (un)aca because now all plans MUST cover more, whether a person needs those services or not. You can't choose what fits your needs best anymore. Uncle says so.

He couldn't get onto the website.  I finally did but got zero information on plans/cost unless personal info was entered.  Yeah, that sure helps.

I threw his numbers onto this site Pennsylvania Health Insurance Exchange | Healthcare.gov   Every. single. plan. is more expensive and they all are subsidized w/hundreds of dollars, which make the premiums less costly to the person ... because everyone else is paying for it.

I plugged my families numbers into it ...holy shit!  The premium w/be $1700/month w/out a subsidy/ with it, it is nearly doubled what we pay now.  

btw, an awful lot of people do not want a subsidy, we don't want someone else paying for us.


----------



## Antares (Nov 2, 2013)

[MENTION=13669]Zoom-boing[/MENTION]
I see this everyday.


----------



## Samson (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> I tell you I am so fucking angry I can hardly see straight. Goddamn fucking moronic asshole sorry excuse for a President. Fuck him.



But......

how do you really feel?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 2, 2013)

billyerock1991 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



That's a flat out lie.  I went to the site, it requires more info than a lot of people are comfortable giving _just to get some information_.  It's bullshit.  If this thing is so great, let people go and just see/compare for themselves without requiring anything more than generic info.


----------



## Samson (Nov 2, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> I went to the site, it requires more info than a lot of people are comfortable giving _just to get some information_.  It's bullshit.  If this thing is so great, let people go and just see/compare for themselves without requiring anything more than generic info.




Like what?



Penis size?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> I can for a fact stay with my current provider.
> 
> I suppose it could be interpreted that I am keeping my plan and "choosing" to add provisions making it ACA compliant. But why would I choose to add maternity coverage and other required elements? We certainly don't NEED maternity. I also would NOT choose to increase my deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pockets. I've done so in the past, but only as a means of reducing the premiums.
> 
> ...



Here I'll lend you my signature picture look at the angry eyes or the tiger


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 2, 2013)

Samson said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > I went to the site, it requires more info than a lot of people are comfortable giving _just to get some information_.  It's bullshit.  If this thing is so great, let people go and just see/compare for themselves without requiring anything more than generic info.
> ...



YES, goddamnit!  And I wanna know girth too, not just length!


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...


Billy, Londoner, I'll cover this for you:

Nuh-UH!!!


----------



## TooTall (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Nancy Pelosi was the conservative Speaker of the House.  Who wudda believed that?


----------



## TooTall (Nov 2, 2013)

Samson said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > I went to the site, it requires more info than a lot of people are comfortable giving _just to get some information_.  It's bullshit.  If this thing is so great, let people go and just see/compare for themselves without requiring anything more than generic info.
> ...



Forget it, but you can get a free hair transplant.


----------



## Antares (Nov 2, 2013)

Obama counts on an illiterate electorate.
He needs them to buy every fucking lie he utters...

This man is the biggest hoax ever put upon this nation....he is an actor and nothing more.
It saddens me that so many americans buy into this/his bullshit.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > well if you went to ,the site and look at what you might pay and if you can't get through the site call them, they will show you what you will get ... verses what you have ...  9 times out of ten it will be a better plan 10 times better then the one you have... they problem you have is you don't know what they hell you're talking about ... you'll g to some right wing whacked out talking point site and never go look for yourself ... that the problem you have ... because I know what they are3 offering and it appears you don't ...
> ...



As do you.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

Antares said:


> Obama counts on an illiterate electorate.
> He needs them to buy every fucking lie he utters...
> 
> This man is the biggest hoax ever put upon this nation....he is an actor and nothing more.
> It saddens me that so many americans buy into this/his bullshit.



To me the people having faith in there twice elected leader makes infinitely more sense than people falling for blatantly obvious Republican propaganda on TV.  Some even consider it news.  Can you imagine such cultish behavior?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Antares said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Londoner said:
> ...



Yes, he did. 

And it's an awesome judgement.  

But I guess you have some desire to be cheated by an insurance company. 

Me?  Been there. Done that.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

TooTall said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Nobody is required to use the website.  If you find that you are not smart enough to just go buy your own insurance.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

TooTall said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



You're right.  We didn't have a President then.  But we did have a tyrannical VP.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> billyerock1991 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Don't like it,  don't use it.  Save the bandwidth for the smarter ones.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



Before calling anyone else stupid, it would be in your interest to take a high school writing course.  Just for fun I checked the grade level of your writing, below is a link to the result.

Readability-Score.com - Free Online Readability Calculator - Flesch Kincaid, Gunning Fog and more ...


----------



## PMZ (Nov 2, 2013)

What's amazing is how virtually all of the people who are confused by the Obamacare website are conservatives.  The same people confused by Wikipedia and main stream media and the Constitution and the government and insurance.  
How far dumbed down is required.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> ...


What a pathetic attempt at distracting from Obama's lies.

He thinks you're stupid -- and you prove it.



By the way, dumbass:  Your link was to the front page.  There are no results there.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> What's amazing is how virtually all of the people who are confused by the Obamacare website are conservatives.  The same people confused by Wikipedia and main stream media and the Constitution and the government and insurance.
> How far dumbed down is required.


Obama thinks you're stupid, too.

You'd better call him and tell him you're not.


----------



## The Rabbi (Nov 2, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > What's amazing is how virtually all of the people who are confused by the Obamacare website are conservatives.  The same people confused by Wikipedia and main stream media and the Constitution and the government and insurance.
> ...



Based on his post it would be a lie.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Like all progressives, PMS has only a nodding acquaintance with reality, preferring his insular cocoon of leftist fantasy.


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 2, 2013)

*Obama thinks we're all stupid. Some of you really are. 
*

I agree with him on that point.  I would imagine that by now he is just about fed up with most Americans and believes that he is just wasting his time trying to do anything worthwhile for them.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> *Obama thinks we're all stupid. Some of you really are.
> *
> 
> I agree with him on that point.  I would imagine that by now he is just about fed up with most Americans and believes that he is just wasting his time trying to do anything worthwhile for them.



  You think ACA is worthwhile.  And you think Obama is benevolent.

Sucker!!


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 2, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



They don't need the personal info they are asking for just for someone to get the plan info.  Generic info ... # of persons covered, ages, state, income is all that's needed.


----------



## Clementine (Nov 3, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



And because SCOTUS took his word for it that it's a tax, they upheld it.   But, oops, now it's unconstitutional because the bill didn't originate in or pass the House.   So, Obama wants most of the country to believe it's not a tax, but wants SCOTUS to believe it is a tax.

Since when are taxes used strictly as a means of punishing people for not engaging in commerce?   NEVER!   

No matter how you look at it, it's unconstitutional.   I'm so sick of the liberals believing that the ends justify the means, especially when the endgame is the destruction of America.


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > *Obama thinks we're all stupid. Some of you really are.
> ...



I believe that Obama was correct in seeing that health care costs were completely out of control and were a major negative influence at the time he took the reigns during the most dangerous financial crisis our country has ever seen.

The ACA is too watered down from what the country could have benefited from such as a single payer option.  

Contrary to many USMB members opinions of my political leanings I am not an Obama supporter.  

What the republicans have offered as alternatives has been a joke.  

I do believe that Obama is probably the best option of who was there to pick from.  As I have stated many times...I did not vote for him.  I thought the presidential election proccess was a sick joke.  Obama is just one man..the Fascists are still in control of most of the government.  Remember when Obama said he would get rid of the special interests?  How's that working for ya?  Upon election he soon discovered that the president does not control as much as he would have liked.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 3, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> *Obama thinks we're all stupid. Some of you really are.
> *
> 
> I agree with him on that point.  I would imagine that by now he is just about fed up with most Americans and believes that he is just wasting his time trying to do anything worthwhile for them.



No huggy oshit thinks his opponents are irrelevant, and counting on people like you the stupid one to believe that.


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 3, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > *Obama thinks we're all stupid. Some of you really are.
> ...



You think Obama "counts on what I think" ? Reb...you are a moron.  There is just no way to sugar coat it.  You have no idea "what I think".  But... I'll slice off a taste.. I think Obama has figured out that since enough Americans are clinicaly retarded such as yourself that there is little hope for our nation.  I think Obama has figured out that he is wasting his time trying to help people like you that are so easily fooled that no matter what evidense is presented before you...you will vote against yours and the countries best interests.

I think Obama had hopes for a better America when he was first elected.  I believe he thought he was a good enough communicator that he could convince even the willfully ignorant among us to do the right thing.  He grossly underestimated the resentment that he is colored.  He grossly missunderstood that some people have so much hate inside that they would rather see our country down on it's knees than accept a colored president.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



Wow- Did you just say... I mean type that with a straight face?

Amazing

-Geaux


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > billyerock1991 said:
> ...



Oxymoron alert.... Like you think people who are smart sign up for Obamacare 

-Geaux


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 3, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



No huggy he doesn't care about what you think, he doesn't care about what anyone thinks, he's counting on you those who support him to  remain stupid and believe what he says.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2013)

It's not that Obama voters are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 3, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> It's not that Obama voter's are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves



  I feel the same way about Rs.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 3, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > It's not that Obama voter's are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves
> ...



I would also if they acted like obama supporters


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > It's not that Obama voter's are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves
> ...



What the hell are you doing up?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> It's not that Obama voters are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves



So you consider being cheated by a big insurance company to be a definition of freedom? 

Really?  

Sorry, man, I kind of rely on government to make sure the water is safe to drink and the food is safe to eat and the air is safe to breathe because I know there is no physical way I could possibly assure those things myself.  

We needed teh ACA because big insurance was cheating consumers left and right.  Now they can't do that anymore.  But they'll give it one last go and get dumb people like you upset.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 3, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> *Obama thinks we're all stupid. Some of you really are.
> *
> 
> I agree with him on that point.  I would imagine that by now he is just about fed up with most Americans and believes that he is just wasting his time trying to do anything worthwhile for them.



Poor guy, he is probably almost finished returning the favors that got him in to office.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > It's not that Obama voters are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves
> ...



Is that why the costs continue to go up. Is because they are no longer cheating anyone? The mandate was they were supposed to pay 80% out on claims, and you claim they were cheating us! yet the price didn't decline, it went up. It tells me you are wrong.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > It's not that Obama voters are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves
> ...



We need a free unfettered insurance system, where companies compete for your business and you can pick the EXACT policy YOU want and combined with a meaningful Medical Saving Account

We need LESS government involvement

If you can't figure out what to eat and drink, that's your problem, don't make it mine


----------



## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



Joe needs unions.
\Joe needs big government.
This is because Joe is a  lazy dumbass and can't think for himself or deliver decent work product.


----------



## Antares (Nov 3, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



You black kid, is that why you are so angry and willing to "swallow" everything Prez Cracka throws your way?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> [
> 
> Is that why the costs continue to go up. Is because they are no longer cheating anyone? The mandate was they were supposed to pay 80% out on claims, and you claim they were cheating us! yet the price didn't decline, it went up. It tells me you are wrong.



No, it tells me you are kind of stupid. 

Costs have been going up for decades.  Now they aren't going up quite as fast.  

The reason why they put a mandate is because most of these companies weren't spending the money paying for treatment.  They were paying for huge lucrative salaries and dividends to investors.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> [
> 
> We need a free unfettered insurance system, where companies compete for your business and you can pick the EXACT policy YOU want and combined with a meaningful Medical Saving Account
> 
> ...



No, the thing is, I don't have a chemical analysis lab in my house to analyze everything I eat and drink.   

I have to rely that there are regulatory agencies making damn sure it is safe.  

Why is it you jackasses define freedom as "the unfettered right for the rich to abuse the rest of us."


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> [q
> 
> Joe needs unions.
> \Joe needs big government.
> This is because Joe is a  lazy dumbass and can't think for himself or deliver decent work product.



No, I just don't slavishly going around sucking Koch... like you do.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Antares said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



No prejudice here.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Remember the good old days when we lived in caves,  were lunch for the lions,  and the guy with the biggest club ran everyone's life?


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



" We need a free unfettered insurance system, where companies compete for your business and you can pick the EXACT policy YOU want"

Private insurance had decades to do this and chose not to.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



Costs for insurance don't determine medical costs. Vice versa.  When we buy a pill for every inconvenience medical costs will never stop rising.


----------



## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Private insurance was fettered by strict rules at the state level that decided what benefits could and must be offered and at what prices.
Your ignorance again makes you look stupid.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Yes, Obama is a liar.  This is plain.  You may not be unsalvageable.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Yes, that's the standard talking point, isn't it?  "It's because he's black!!"  For someone trying to give the impression that he can think for himself, you're not doing a very good job.

Obama never was interested in helping people.  

And people who can't think for themselves have no business telling me what's in my best interests.

Not salvageable after all, looks like.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > [q
> ...



You do know, don't you, it's pronounced "coke", right?


And you thought you made a funny.  You did...but not the way you intended.


----------



## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > [q
> ...



Yes you do.  You suck Obama's large Negro penis.  You suck union dick.  Joe, you just plain suck.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


So the obvious solution is for government to decide whether you need that pill, and to stifle medical research so the pill is never developed.

Brilliant!


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 3, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> ...



Petty.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


Fly Catcher doesn't like his stupidity being pointed out.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 3, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Hell, since generic "preventive" care is already included in everyone's policy, asking a person's gender is superfluous.  Given the current PC culture, asking someone' gender affiliation might be viewed as downright bigoted.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > It's not that Obama voters are stupid, it's because they are a cult and have surrendered their willingness and ability to decide for themselves
> ...



Now, big insurance ripping people off is codified and legitimized by the so-called ACA.  Way to go!


----------



## rdean (Nov 3, 2013)

Considering what the right wing defines as "insurance" only proves most really are stupid.


----------



## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

rdean said:


> Considering what the right wing defines as "insurance" only proves most really are stupid.



That's why 28 yr old gay men need maternity insurance, right RDean?


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

Surprised this thread exists here...


daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...






> http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis....keep-your-plan/&catid=57610109&nb_splitPage=2
> 
> Obamacare covers the stupid. Some of you really are stupid.
> Quote:
> ...


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Why are people blaming Obamacare for the decisions of the private insurance company? 

Private insurance companies have always changed the rules of their game annually.


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

Ahh, another thread title calling people stupid?

How friggin stupid is that?


----------



## jasonnfree (Nov 3, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> 
> Sure it failed everywhere and every time it's been tried, it's failing right now in Europe, it failed whenever we give Progressives control over any economy no matter how large or small from Detroit to China, but this time, this is the time it will work



social security and medicare are progressive or socialist programs and try kicking the most vehement anti gubmint conservatives off one of those programs and you'll hear the sound of locking and loading.  How is progressivism failing in europe?  I know people in Sweden and France and they haven't informed me of this.  Also Australia and England.  They shake their heads and say "only in America"  when they hear stories of poor sick americans.  But they don't have 24/7 multi billionaire funded anti gubmint media piped in to every one of their homes, truck stops, rest homes, and probably beer bars.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> Ahh, another thread title calling people stupid?
> 
> How friggin stupid is that?



Who are you calling stupid?


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Ahh, another thread title calling people stupid?
> ...



Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love insulting thread titles and OPs, you stupid little twerp.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Your MO is typical of the ignorazzi.  What else can they do?


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

jasonnfree said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Well look at Obama voters, they're low-information and think Progressive economics will really work --this time; this is the one time it will overcome it's 100% Guaranteed fail.
> ...



Anti-government cconservatives are just plain -- uhm -- ert -- stupid. Just look at the OP, Dupey little Davey


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


How stupid is it to start a thread calling people stupid and expecting reasonable and rational discussion?

I guess it is the norm in wingnut world to expect people to sit back and take it for the team while being called, and being treated as stupid. It's what tbe Rightwing Noise Machine has primed people for.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



There is ignorance in the country. 

 My point is not in conflict with yours,  but in addition. 

And it's a real dilemma.  

The first step in solving any problem is acceptance of the problem. There is much Dunning-Kruger syndrome here.  

How does one address that effectively?


----------



## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Why are people blaming Obamacare for the decisions of the private insurance company?
> 
> Private insurance companies have always changed the rules of their game annually.



So pirvate insurance companies make money by cancelling people's policies?
Are you crazy? :


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Shut the fuck up weenie you little bitch. Have you ever read any of the shit you write?


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

I used to teach as adjunct faculty.  Students came to class presuming ignorance in the topic.  Here people presume knowledge and defend that presumption despite solid evidence to the contrary.  

What,  if anything,  is an effective approach towards a cure?


----------



## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> I used to teach as adjunct faculty.  Students came to class presuming ignorance in the topic.  Here people presume knowledge and defend that presumption despite solid evidence to the contrary.
> 
> What,  if anything,  is an effective approach towards a cure?



I doubt you were adjunct anything.  Your inability to reason and engage in rational discussion is obvious.  You have failed to present "solid evidence" of anything other than your ability to mouth talking points from the Left.

As to a "cure", I presume you mean for health care costs.
Costs decline in the face of competition.  We don't have competition in most of healthcare.  Ask your doctor what a particular drug he prescribes costs, or how much a procedure is.  He has no idea.  The consumer has no idea.  Who buys a product not knowing or caring what the cost is?
In areas of medicine that are never covered under insurance those costs have been going down, due to competition.  We need more of that and less top down dictation and third party payments.


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> I used to teach as adjunct faculty.  Students came to class presuming ignorance in the topic.  Here people presume knowledge and defend that presumption despite solid evidence to the contrary.
> 
> What,  if anything,  is an effective approach towards a cure?



A pedant?  Ahh, bingo!

This post is frightening when your other posts are joined to it. You commenting on the PPACA/Obamacare:  



PMZ said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Funny thing is the Rightwing Noise Machine has distorted the discourse so successfully that even the responses in defense of the PPACA/Obamacare come out of tbe distorted narrative  of the right.

"It was never sold as health care reform. It was sold as health care insurance regulation."

Your quote is contrary to subtitles and sections within the bill as passed and enacted and judged constitutional:  https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > I used to teach as adjunct faculty.  Students came to class presuming ignorance in the topic.  Here people presume knowledge and defend that presumption despite solid evidence to the contrary.
> ...


The pedantic rabbi?

Oh shut up!


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

rdean said:


> Considering what the right wing defines as "insurance" only proves most really are stupid.


Yes, because only government liberals are qualified to make that decision for everyone.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> Surprised this thread exists here...
> 
> 
> daveman said:
> ...



Did you think you had a point, or did you just need some attention?


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> Ahh, another thread title calling people stupid?
> 
> How friggin stupid is that?


Obama thinks you're stupid.

And you are.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> jasonnfree said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...


Like all progressives, you have a loathing for liberty.

How pathetic.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


Actually, it's what Obama's doing to you.

You just lie back and take it.


----------



## Antares (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Why are people blaming Obamacare for the decisions of the private insurance company?
> 
> Private insurance companies have always changed the rules of their game annually.



You just aren't very bright at all.

It' sad really.

Because the insurance companies complied with the law they "changed" the rules.

You can't make this shit up.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> I used to teach as adjunct faculty.  Students came to class presuming ignorance in the topic.  Here people presume knowledge and defend that presumption despite solid evidence to the contrary.
> 
> What,  if anything,  is an effective approach towards a cure?



So, Obama lied to you...multiple times...but it's the fault of the people who point it out.

Good sheep.


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > I used to teach as adjunct faculty.  Students came to class presuming ignorance in the topic.  Here people presume knowledge and defend that presumption despite solid evidence to the contrary.
> ...



He didn't lie to me or you.  I figured out what he meant and you were unable to.  

That's just one of the many consequences of ignorance. 

Did you really think that it was going to be free?


----------



## Antares (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



You didn't figure out shitkid, you made up an altenative narrative and pretend its "truth".

Look up the word "vapid".....it applies to you.


----------



## Dante (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


5 posts in a row and what if anything of substance, do add?


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Wrong.  He undeniably lied to you.

The difference is, I acknowledge he lied.

You make excuses for it.


PMZ said:


> That's just one of the many consequences of ignorance.


I'd ask you to explain how acknowledging reality makes me ignorant, but we both know you're just lashing out mindlessly.


PMZ said:


> Did you really think that it was going to be free?


Never.  Not me.  There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.  Conservatives know this.

But some liberals thought it would be free:

Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out - latimes.com

Pam Kehaly, president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, said she received a recent letter from a young woman complaining about a 50% rate hike related to the healthcare law.

"She said, 'I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,'" Kehaly said.​


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Dante said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


It's funny that you think you can dictate what is of substance and what is not.  

Look, you believed Obama.  That makes you a sucker.  You STILL believe him.  That makes you a moron.

Run along now.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Grade level was 5.3

"A grade level (based on the USA education system) is equivalent to the number of years of education a person has had. Scores over 22 should generally be taken to mean graduate level text."


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Like I said, it's not that that they're necessarily stupid, they just have a Collective mind and parrot back whatever they're told.

Wry could be as smart, and not like everybody says, like dumb, but he was instructed to avoid dealing with the central lie of ObamaCare and, well, there you have it


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Why are people blaming Obamacare for the decisions of the private insurance company?
> ...



Your response has nothing at all to do with my post.  I've never seen a multi year health insurance policy.  Have you?


----------



## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > I used to teach as adjunct faculty.  Students came to class presuming ignorance in the topic.  Here people presume knowledge and defend that presumption despite solid evidence to the contrary.
> ...



Are you proposing socialized medicine?  That's the most common way to correct noncompetitive markets.  

If you needed cancer surgery,  would you shop around for the cheapest Dr and hospital?


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Antares said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I would be equally as embarrassed as you are if I was unable to consider the President's comments in context.  It's really quite a stupid mistake.


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## Antares (Nov 3, 2013)

*Quote: Originally Posted by PMZ  
Why are people blaming Obamacare for the decisions of the private insurance company? 

Private insurance companies have always changed the rules of their game annually.*

Sweetie, the ACA changed the rules, NOT the insurance companies.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Antares said:


> *Quote: Originally Posted by PMZ
> Why are people blaming Obamacare for the decisions of the private insurance company?
> 
> Private insurance companies have always changed the rules of their game annually.*
> ...



The ACA doesn't write insurance policies.  It's effect on insurance policies was to require coverage adequate to insure that policies covered real risks to people not being able to pay for their health care.  

If your point is that that regulation should not have been required because it would be unethical to write an inadequate policy,  I agree.


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## Antares (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > *Quote: Originally Posted by PMZ
> ...



(smile) It dictated how they were written if they desired compliance honey.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



No, it was fucking hilarious and everyone got what I meant.... 

you Kochsucker, you.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



I've seen guaranteed re-issue.  Haven't you?


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



No, idiot, socialized medicine does not cure uncompetitive markets.  Socialized anything makes matters worse.
Where the fuck have you been?
Fortunately most health care costs are not cancer surgery.  And yes, I would shop around for cheaper whatever I needed.
Do you shop around for cars?


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Antares said:
> 
> 
> > *Quote: Originally Posted by PMZ
> ...



Why don't you take that up with the insurance commissions of every state, who set minimum levels of coverage and rates?
Or didnt you think of that?


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## Antares (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Antares said:
> ...



The DOI's only followed the dictates of the ACA.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



Unlike you,  I value my health more than my car.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



I said noncompetitive markets.  And yes,  if we all own the means, and have democracy that allows us to fire the management,  it's the only economic system that works in noncompetitive markets. 

You are apparently not very educated in Economics.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



No. Insurers can't set premiums longer than a year away.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Translation: You know a hell of a lot more about it than me so I better pretend to know something.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


That's a non-sequitur.
Have a grown up explain it to you.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

Antares said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



I meant before ACA.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



So you'll pay any price for anything, no matter how generic.
You're in idiot.  We all understand that.  Your rep prety well speaks to it.  Those red stars by your name are not for being a commie.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



Apparently,  what makes conservatives so susceptible to propaganda is their belief only in black and white choices.


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## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...


I write just as well as you do, Skippy.  What text of mine did you use?  Or did you use mine at all?

But then, progressives never have any trouble lying, do you?

Speaking of lying, did you know Obama lied to you?


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## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



He serves his masters well, and he will be rewarded.

Actually, he'll be thrown under the bus as soon as his useful idiocy is no longer useful.  But he's lucky:  If this was the progressive Utopia he wants, he'd be stood against the wall.


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## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


"Cokesucker".

Dumbass.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Actually Republicans lied to you.  They told you that,  in a speech about Obamacare,  President Obama was talking about private insurance companies actions. 

And you fell for it!


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Actually Obama said that.
"If you like your insurance policy, you can keep it."  Oops.  Turns out he lied. And now you're lying about his lie.
It's because progressive scums lie. It's all they can do.


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## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Oh, you mean like the common progressive refrain that unless you support big government, you obviously want anarchy?

That if you oppose unreasonable limitations to the Second Amendment, you want to be able to own nuclear weapons?

That if you support reasonable requirements for voters to prove they are who they say they are, you don't want black people to vote?

That if you disagree with Obama's policies, you're a racist?

Yes.  I see what you mean about black-and-white thinking and susceptibility to propaganda.


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## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...


Speaking of useful idiots...


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I don't blame you for trying to find a scapegoat for your inabilities.  If you were more liberal you'd consider manning up and taking personal responsibility for your shortcomings but,  you are only a conservative.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Translation: Yeah/ we're liars.  We're stupid shits too.  But we can't admit that so must change the subject.
We know we know.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



All of your examples can be read here every day as statements actually made by extreme conservatives.  They're not not assumptions by liberals.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 3, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Please post a link to the thread where someone wanted a nuclear bomb.
We'll wait.


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## PMZ (Nov 3, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



You've never heard a conservative wanting to nuke Iran,  or Afghanistan or Iraq???????


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## The Rabbi (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



That's relevant how?
Or are you just free associating now?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

This thread went off the rails. 

Unsubscribe.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


My goodness, you sure don't have a problem telling flat-out lies, do you?

Oh, yeah -- you're a progressive.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



With their own privately-owned nuclear bomb?

Fail, kid.  Utter fail.  Run along now.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> This thread went off the rails.
> 
> Unsubscribe.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrEwCa8nSA]"Well...................Bye." - YouTube[/ame]


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



You don't need to own a bomb to say 'nuke Afghanistan'.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Which contradicts your statement that cosnervatives want to own nuclear bombs.
Haven't you beclowned yourself enough on this thread?


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I keep forgetting.  Conservatives only do black or white.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Ironic post is moronic.
Sorry, guy.  You're not even worth debating.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



You are not even capable of debating.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 4, 2013)

This message is hidden because PMZ is on your ignore list.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Need some help moving the goalposts, boy?  Because you're weak.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Ahhh, the old "No, YOU!!" ploy.  Utterly devastating.  You win one (1) internets.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



My goal is to keep ignorance out of government.  I think that we're doing well at that.  Not perfectly but making progress. 

I wish we could keep it out of business too.  

No matter where it is its unaffordable.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Interesting tangent.  I take it you're abandoning your asinine "conservatives want private ownership of nuclear weapons" claim.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I've heard many if them say that we should nuke this place or that.  They don't need to own one to do that if they have a majority in government.  Thank God that won't happen.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



Actually,  I was quite serious.


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## Kathy58 (Nov 4, 2013)

I'm sure sheeple will buy into this. Actually, I find it extremely insulting that the WH expects Americans to believe the rhetoric they are spewing;

White House on honesty in the Age of Obama: "What difference does it make?" | Washington Times Communities


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## RandallFlagg (Nov 4, 2013)

Kathy58 said:


> I'm sure sheeple will buy into this. Actually, I find it extremely insulting that the WH expects Americans to believe the rhetoric they are spewing;
> 
> White House on honesty in the Age of Obama: "What difference does it make?" | Washington Times Communities



Nixon was run out of office for lying about knowledge of a break in at the Watergate.

Clinton lied about getting BJs in the Oval Office and nothing happened to the weasel bastard.

Barry lies more in an hour than any president in History and it's taken as "misspeak". his minions actually applaud his lying. The ends justify the means with this current gutter trash.

Americans get the government they deserve.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

Kathy58 said:


> I'm sure sheeple will buy into this. Actually, I find it extremely insulting that the WH expects Americans to believe the rhetoric they are spewing;
> 
> White House on honesty in the Age of Obama: "What difference does it make?" | Washington Times Communities



Another Sheeple buying the lie that the President was talking for private insurance companies when he said people could keep the policies they liked. 

People who heard the topic of the speech know he was talking about the Obamacare grandfathering clause.  

But Republican propaganda is what it is and Fox addicts are addicted.


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## RandallFlagg (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Kathy58 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure sheeple will buy into this. Actually, I find it extremely insulting that the WH expects Americans to believe the rhetoric they are spewing;
> ...




You're a lying piece of trash.


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## Doubletap (Nov 4, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Kathy58 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure sheeple will buy into this. Actually, I find it extremely insulting that the WH expects Americans to believe the rhetoric they are spewing;
> ...



Obama should be impeached & sent back to Chicago. It is there he can again be a community agitator-something he's really good at.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 4, 2013)

Doubletap said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy58 said:
> ...



I dont even know he was any good at that.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Yep, you've abandoned your asinine claim.  Good, because it was REALLY stupid.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Oh, I know.  I know you were.

That's what makes it especially funny.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy58 said:
> ...



The truth often hurts the delusional.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I admire how you accept your handicap.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Actually I abandoned your asinine claim.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Kathy58 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure sheeple will buy into this. Actually, I find it extremely insulting that the WH expects Americans to believe the rhetoric they are spewing;
> ...



And what did the grandfathering clause grandfather in?  Private health insurance plans.

When he said 'you can keep your plan if you like your plan' he meant ... if you like your insurance plan, you could keep it.  Period.  <---  means 'what I just said it what I meant'.

obama. Lied. His. Ass. Off.  

My brother lost his individual catastrophic plan.  Gone at the end of December.  Know what changed on his plan?  Nothing but a price increase.  His actual plan --- what was covered --- didn't change at all.

obama. Lied. His. Ass. Off.

Keep spinning, we're all getting a kick of how utterly and hopelessly moronic you all are flailing about.  You leftists look like a bunch of damn herrings flopping around on a dock trying to spin this into anything other than what it really is. 

obama. Lying. His. Ass. Off.


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 4, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



He doesn't live here, he's in New Zealand.  He really has no clue what he's talking about, but that won't stop him.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy58 said:
> ...



You fell for the same lie. 

Existing policies were grandfathered if they stayed the same.  If insurance companies changed them,  essentially creating a new policy,  they lost the grandfathering. 

Your brother's insurance company didn't want their customers to have the choice that President Obama promised. So they didn't offer to extend the same policy. They offered a new policy and used Obamacare as a scapegoat.


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## Pop23 (Nov 4, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy58 said:
> ...



Lied his ass off PERIOD, END OF STORY


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



You are lying.  Your.  Ass.  Off. 

You just don't want to hold your insurance company accountable.


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## Pop23 (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Don't stop there. Obama KNEW that under the ACA the policies HAD TO CHANGE. Making the lie even worse because the PEOPLE HE MADE THE PROMISE TOO DID NOT HAVE THOSE FACTS. 

Geez.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Policies that did not change did not have to change.  Read instead of just reciting Republican propaganda.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



My brothers policy remained the same.  It had a price increase so in obama land, that means the policy changed.  Yup, keep spinning this shit and telling yourself that it doesn't stink,.

My brother didn't need any choice that obama promised ... he already had a plan that he paid for, that suited his needs, that he liked, that obama said he could keep.  Now he gets to pay for things he doesn't need, doesn't want, his premiums will at least double, his deductible as well.  

obama lied and continues to do so.

This entire things is shit but idiots like you will defend it because ... obama!


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## Pop23 (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



You are lying. Your. Ass. Off. 

You just don't want to hold the President accountable. 

Gee, shall we see how long we can play this game?


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



The same means the same. What the President said was true.  Your the one who's being stupid.


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 4, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> Kathy58 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure sheeple will buy into this. Actually, I find it extremely insulting that the WH expects Americans to believe the rhetoric they are spewing;
> ...



Barry lies more in an hour than all other presidents together, including Nixon and Clinton.  He gets his "pass".


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## Pop23 (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...





"If you like your insurance policy you can keep it. Period, end of story"

Please find anywhere in the above sentence anything implying "unless the policy changes"

Let me assist

IT AINT THERE


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 4, 2013)

Racism is terrible.  If the only reason for blindly bleating like a sheep.  For groveling for some policies is because the driving impetus is "the first black president"...well, racism sucks.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



So you really are that stupid as to believe that a price increase somehow 'changes the plan'. Wow, dumb leftists are dumb.

Please link to where obama specified 'if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.  Period.  Unless anything little thing on it changes, and that means even if the price goes up, then it will be cancelled and you will be sol'.  Prior to when his lying spinny ass said it today.  He can't back peddle fast enough on this. Oh wait ... were we suppose to go read the bill to find out what was in it?   

I was right ...  idiot lap-dogs like you will defend this crap and this shitty administration because --- obama!

Can't wait till the employer mandate kicks in next year right before elections and millions more lose the plans the president said we could keep.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 4, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Pop23 said:
> ...



Apparently to this latest obama fluffer, it is but we're just to dumb to see it.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Pop23 said:
> ...



Obviously he assumed you knew the context of his statement.  Just as obviously,  he overestimated your capabilities.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 4, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Obviously you have nothing and can only reply with bullshit.

obama lied.  Period.  

Correction:  obama lies.  Period.


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## PMZ (Nov 4, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Clearly,  you are not very bright.  To think that he said that you can have whatever you want from your insurance company.  

The purpose of Obamacare was to make everyone responsible for the cost of their health care.  You thought that you could get away with only being responsible if you didn't need any health care.  But that door got closed.  Bummer.


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## Kathy58 (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



 Does ANYONE have ANYTHING constructive to say??? Geezz.....This entire forum has become so full of crap from posters hell bent on hurling insults instead of reading differing POV. C'mon mods, I haven't been here long but how can you overlook the language? It reduces good debate into worthless rhetoric. I dunno, maybe I am wrong here & the mods are ok with this stuff. Good luck with that,,,


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Kathy58 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



Constructive means in accordance with the truth.  Right?


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## Kathy58 (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Kathy58 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Truth according to whom?


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Kathy58 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy58 said:
> ...



There is only one truth.  We each have the responsibility to figure out what it is.


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## RandallFlagg (Nov 5, 2013)

Kathy58 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



Oh honey, you haven't been here long, have you? the mods here tolerate the most vile language imaginable - on a daily basis. You will need to develop a very thick skin to be here.

When I first started, I tried to debate like an adult. It didn't take me long to realize that their is no civil debate here. Only left against right. 

it gets heated. Gird your loins if you plan on staying.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



No one thinks he said that because that isn't what he said.
What he did say was "you can keep your health plan.  Period."  I see no exceptions or qualifications there.  Period.

It happens I am one of a few people who actually could keep his plan because I had it prior to 2010.  So all the people who got their plan after that and are finding that plan cancelled due to Ocare regs understand that Obama's promise was a lie.  And he knew it was a lie when he made the statement.  That is already established.
There is simply no way you can spin that to be what it obviously is.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


  On what do you base your opinion that you're an intelligent person?  Because I see no evidence.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


See, now you're just flat-out lying.  Why do you do that?

Oh, yes -- you somehow laughably believe that you HAVEN'T completely screwed the pooch in this thread.

How's that working out for you, kid?


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## jon_berzerk (Nov 5, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



*To think that he said that you can have whatever you want from your insurance company. *

only in America where freedom of choice comes second 

how shameful we have become 

and this is somehow considered normal


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy58 said:
> ...


Meanwhile, the Administration changed the grandfathering rules to benefit his corporate cronies:

Obama modified 'grandfathering' rules to benefit businesses | The Daily Caller

In November 2010, HHS modified the regulation to provide even further flexibility for larger companies, even allowing them to change insurance providers without losing grandfathered status, despite already giving them favorable treatment. According to the HHS fact-check:
Previously, one of the ways an employer group health plan could lose its grandfather status was if the employer changed issuers  switching from one insurance company to another. The original regulation only allowed self-funded plans to change third-party administrators without necessarily losing their grandfathered plan status. Todays amendment allows all group health plans to switch insurance companies and shop for the same coverage at a lower cost while maintaining their grandfathered status, so long as the structure of the coverage doesnt violate one of the other rules for maintaining grandfathered plan status.​By comparison, HHS regulations for individual insurance coverage ensured that relatively minor changes to these plans  for example, an increase in the deductible above a certain amount  would result in these plans losing grandfathered status. Whereas the regulations allowed businesses to swap out one insurance carrier for another, buyers in the individual insurance market could not even change plans with the same carrier without losing protected status.​
Obamacare:  Fucking the Little Guy On Purpose.


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## jon_berzerk (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



the people do not like being tricked by the fine print in a contract 

in fact if obama was a licensed insurance agent 

he would be out on bond right now awaiting trial


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Pop23 said:
> ...



Obamacare does not limit your choice to continue a grandfathered policy.  Those writing policies do.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



"If you like your plan, you can keep it.  Period."-Obama.
I see nothing about "grandfathered" there.
Another weasel lie.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Obviously we should have read his friggen mind.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Pop23 said:
> ...



Many people got it right listening to his words.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



You are dumber than a bag of shit.  

He didn't say "you can have whatever you want from your insurance company"  HE SAID:  If you like your health care plan, you can keep it.  Period.'  Stop trying to dodge.

Stupid, moron is stupid, moron.  Try reading what I actually wrote, dumbass.  My brother had an individual health insurance plan that he paid for, with he very own money, no subsidies, no one else footing the bill for him, he took responsibility, fucking obama and dems shoved this pile of crap down our throats, obama stood there and repeatedly REPEATEDLY said if you like your plan you can keep it.  Period.  Over and over and over he said it. HE FUCKING LIED.  Now he, you and countless other brain-dead, ass-kissing, obama zombies are bending over backward trying to wiggle out of it.  Newflash, it ain't gonna never happen.

obama and dems lied their asses off on this and have been caught.  You are pathetic in your sorry assed attempts to justify or excuse this in any way.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Obamacare allowed grandfathering of existing policies.  Private insurance companies chose not to. 

The President can't and wouldn't talk about their decisions.  He was talking about the government's decision to grandfather.  

It speaks volumes about Republican propaganda that those simple obvious facts have been pried from so many weak minds.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


You are one ignorant shitbag.
Private insurance companies had no choice in the matter.  If the policy was issued after whatever 2010, and it didnt conform to Ocare guidelines, it had to be cancelled.  Companies had no choice in the matter.  Consumers had no choice in the matter.  All of it was driven by gov't regulation.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Ignorance can only be cured by the ignorant,  learning. Something that you refuse to do.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Youve probably read a lot about how the Affordable Care Act is going to change health insurance, but does it all apply to you? If you get your insurance from your employer, theres a very good chance that you are in a "grandfathered plan," and that means some of the changes do not affect you  yet.

Framers of the Affordable Care Act allowed some health plans to be exempt from some of the laws rules and protections in the interests of a smooth transition and to allow businesses and individuals to keep current policies without having to make substantial changes. More than a third of all Americans who get insurance through their jobs are enrolled in such plans, although that number is expected to decline every year.
Nonetheless, consumers should know the status of their plans since that may determine whether they are eligible for certain protections and benefits created by the health law.  For example, an employee at a large company may wonder why his job-based insurance doesn't include the free preventive services he's heard about. Or someone who purchases her own coverage may wonder whether she will be eligible for broader benefits when new insurance marketplaces open next fall. To answer those questions, you must understand the status of your plan and how grandfathering works.  Here are the basics:
What is a grandfathered plan?
Most health insurance plans that existed on March 23, 2010 are eligible for grandfathered status and therefore do not have to meet all the requirements of the health care law.  But if an insurer or employer makes significant changes to a plans benefits or how much members pay through premiums, copays or deductibles, then the plan loses that status. 
The government's regulations spell out how much plans can change the amount paid by workers or employers before losing their status.
Both individual plans, the kind you buy on your own, and group plans, the kind you receive through an employer, can be grandfathered. If you get coverage through an employer, you can join a grandfathered plan even if you werent enrolled on March 23, 2010.
What rules does a grandfathered plan have to follow?
A grandfathered plan has to follow some of the same rules other plans do under the ACA.  For example, the plans cannot impose lifetime limits on how much health care coverage people may receive, and they must offer dependent coverage for young adults until age 26 (although until 2014, a grandfathered group plan does not have to offer such coverage if a young adult is eligible for coverage elsewhere). They also cannot retroactively cancel your coverage because of a mistake you made when applying, a practice known as a rescission.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Youve probably read a lot about how the Affordable Care Act is going to change health insurance, but does it all apply to you? If you get your insurance from your employer, theres a very good chance that you are in a "grandfathered plan," and that means some of the changes do not affect you  yet.
> 
> Framers of the Affordable Care Act allowed some health plans to be exempt from some of the laws rules and protections in the interests of a smooth transition and to allow businesses and individuals to keep current policies without having to make substantial changes. More than a third of all Americans who get insurance through their jobs are enrolled in such plans, although that number is expected to decline every year.
> Nonetheless, consumers should know the status of their plans since that may determine whether they are eligible for certain protections and benefits created by the health law.  For example, an employee at a large company may wonder why his job-based insurance doesn't include the free preventive services he's heard about. Or someone who purchases her own coverage may wonder whether she will be eligible for broader benefits when new insurance marketplaces open next fall. To answer those questions, you must understand the status of your plan and how grandfathering works.  Here are the basics:
> ...



You dumb shit.  Stop dodging what happened.

obama repeatedly, over and over and over said 'if you like your plan you can keep your plan.  PERIOD'.

Prior to yesterday's lie, go find the links, clips, statements from this asshat where he said 'unless'.  Unless your plan does not meet the above, unless your plan increases in cost (DUH, of course they increased in cost over the past three years.  Wasn't LOWERING COST part of the reason for this whole pile of shit?  Yeah, right.), unless, unless, unless.

HE DIDN'T PUT A CONDITION ON HIS WORDS.  HE SAID "IF YOU LIKE YOUR PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PLAN.  PERIOD."

He lied.  And you and countless other sheep just keep on spinning.


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## IlarMeilyr (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Youve probably read a lot about how the Affordable Care Act is going to change health insurance, but does it all apply to you? If you get your insurance from your employer, theres a very good chance that you are in a "grandfathered plan," and that means some of the changes do not affect you  yet.
> ...



He mistook the "period" for an asterisk and expected us to read the fine print (i.e., the  microprint) he forgot to print.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

The Sheeple keep the dance of the whirling dervishes on Fox going round and round. 

To be expected.  Spin is all they have.  If they didn't lie,  they would have nothing to say.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Sheeple keep the dance of the whirling dervishes on Fox going round and round.
> 
> To be expected.  Spin is all they have.  If they didn't lie,  they would have nothing to say.



That would appear to be you.
All of us understand that Obama said, If you like your health plan, you can keep it.  Period.
All of us understand that means without qualification.
All of us understand there are indeed qualifications, resulting in probably over 90M people getting cancelled.
All of us understand that is not what we were told.
All of us understand that Obama lied, and knew he was lying when he said it.

So it seems only you understood something different, something which is obviously not true.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...



He didn't say you could keep your plan if your insurer makes it ACA compliant.. He said "you could keep it --- if you liked it" the way it was.. 

Many companies don't WANT to remove lifetime caps of $1 or $2 Mill dollars or cover VAGUE underdefined crap like "gender reassignment procedures".. And I don't blame them.

Perhaps they MIGHT have been willing to RAISE the caps to $5Mill, but the arrogant Demo leadership never gave them that choice...


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Sheeple keep the dance of the whirling dervishes on Fox going round and round.
> ...



Why would anybody, think that he,  then or ever,  would be speaking for private health insurance company decisions? 

And why can't Republicans ever hold corporations accountable for their decisions? 

There is only one possible answer.  This is pure dirty campaign politics that is completely unrelated to truth.  Say whatever you need to in order to win. 

Pure Lee Atwater and Karl Rove propaganda.  "Winning is the only thing". 

Trouble is that as long as Republicans have been following that act they've been losing.  That would be a good thing if they weren't dragging the country down with them.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Was that supposed to be responsive to my post?  Because it wasn't.
The policies changed as a result of the mandate in Obamacare.  Absent that, people would have kept their polciies if they liked them.
Dirty politics is the president saying something he knows is a lie just to get legislation passed, figuring he can smooth it over later.


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## Pop23 (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Where is grandfathered or unless changed mentioned in the quote I mentioned earlier?

Run Forrest run


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



The policies changed as a result of the decisions made by those who wrote them. 

Is the concept of grandfathering above your pay grade?


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Both you and I have no idea what you're talking about.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


No they were not. They were changed as a result of the change in law. Obama specifically said "If you like your private health care plan, you can keep your private health care plan." What part of that is confusing to you?
Obviously the concept of lying is not above your pay grade.  But it is beyond your ability to do it persuasively.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Clearly the concept of grandfathering is well above your pay grade. 

So is the operation of insurance companies.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

There have been many victims of propaganda throughout history and they all concluded that what they were being told was the truth. Mass media has both greatly extended the reach and effectiveness of thought control.  

Could that end democracy as the ultimate freedom? 

It certainly could.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Clearly the concept of grandfathering is well above your pay grade.
> 
> So is the operation of insurance companies.



Clearly the concept of honesty is above yours.
Where does Obama say "grandfather"?  There are clips of him making that claim literally dozens of times.  He never once says "grandfathered."
Again, everyone understood the same thing.  If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period.
That means no grandfathering.
Or is English not your native language?


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## flacaltenn (Nov 5, 2013)

OBAMA didn't say --- "if your current plan doesn't have a lifetime payment cap, provides free birth control and covers all trangender reassignment expenses".. Nope PMZ --- He didn't... 

So if the insurance company DOESN'T WANT to amend your policy so that you can now become a girl, or have UNLIMITED lifetime coverage --- that's not an insurance company problem.. Your Demo zealots didn't NEGOTIATE with your insurance company BEFORE THEY PROMISED US --- that "we can keep our plans".. 

The blame is gonna smother all the evil - doers responsible for this mess. No amount of spinning or attempts to transfer the blame are gonna fly.. 

I see that you (PMZ) have the same logic and reason problems with politics as you do with Climate Science.


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 5, 2013)

Kathy58 said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



Maybe, if you don't like the way the mods run this forum, or you find us offensive, or you want constructive debate, you should go set up your own forum?  Just sayin'...you come here and start bitching and whining right off the bat.


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## gallantwarrior (Nov 5, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Obama sheeple, when their icon speaks:


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## RandallFlagg (Nov 5, 2013)

Yeah, Obama isn't worried about his lies coming back to haunt him

White House sends SOS to insurers | TheHill


That boy can't backtrack fast enough...


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## Rebelitarian (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> Amid reports of millions of Americans losing their insurance because of new Obamacare regulations, President Obama on Wednesday stood by his promise that those who liked their coverage before the Affordable Care Act became law could keep that coverage.
> 
> "If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you liked that plan, you were able to keep it," the president said in Boston.​
> ...



Look if anyone here voted Democrat or Republican while the rest of America knew both parties were taking orders from the Bilderbergers....

Then my God we will have to quarentine this forum for mass stupidity.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...


And of course, Obamacare sets the rules about what makes a policy able to be grandfathered.

The insurance companies are only doing what the law allows.  You can stop pretending it's their fault now.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Yes.  Those of us who realize he lied.

The rest of you listen to what he SAID he said, which is, of course, another lie.  You're gullible, so you believe him.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The purpose of Obamacare was to make everyone responsible for the cost of their health care.


If that were true, there would be no subsidies.

Obamacare makes the middle class responsible for the cost of the health care of the poor.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> There have been many victims of propaganda throughout history and they all concluded that what they were being told was the truth. Mass media has both greatly extended the reach and effectiveness of thought control.
> 
> Could that end democracy as the ultimate freedom?
> 
> It certainly could.


Then why do you so blindly swallow the propaganda, boy?  Why do you allow your thought to be controlled?


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## koshergrl (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


 
Joe's insurance is medicaid. Of course it's compliant.

Of course, it's also going to fall off...


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

Rebelitarian said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Obama stands by promise that "you can keep your plan" - CBS News
> ...



I had a Bilderburger for lunch.  It was awesome.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

koshergrl said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



But he won't blame the government.  He'll blame the eeeevil doctors, or the eeeeevil capitalists, or the eeeeevil Republicans...anyone but the people actually responsible.

Mostly, he'll fail to blame himself for being such a loser.

(Not saying people on Medicade are losers.  I'm saying PinkoJoe is a loser.)


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## koshergrl (Nov 5, 2013)

PinkoJoe is a loser.

And his smugness is misplaced. Medicaid is taking hits...BIG hits. They're dropping people like crazy,.


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## koshergrl (Nov 5, 2013)

They have sent out letters to all medicaid customers saying that this and that will happen...but the thing is, when they go in to see their care providers, that's when they find out that the system hasn't re-upped them, after all...and they are *indefinitely* without coverage.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Clearly the concept of grandfathering is well above your pay grade.
> ...



Thinking is not your strength. 

Just Google" ACA grandfather"


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



You are deceived. Grandfathering gave insurance companies a choice. They made the decision.  Some took advantage and some didn't. 

The fact that you are ignorant of that doesn't make it go away.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


This isnt about Google or ACA.  It is about Obama's statement that if you like your private health plan you can keep it, period.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The purpose of Obamacare was to make everyone responsible for the cost of their health care.
> ...



The middle chooses to pay full time workers well below a living wage.  That's the cause of the need for subsidies.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > There have been many victims of propaganda throughout history and they all concluded that what they were being told was the truth. Mass media has both greatly extended the reach and effectiveness of thought control.
> ...



I don't.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


If Obama were so concerned about people, he would have made grandfathering mandatory for all policies.

This is called "logic".  You will fail to comprehend it.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Yes, that's a common whine from people who:

1.  Don't understand economics, and 

2.  Want stuff they haven't earned.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Reality says otherwise.  

Obama said you could keep your coverage.  Full stop.  No caveats, no context, no spin.

But you say he didn't lie.  Why?  Because Obama TOLD you he didn't lie.

Propaganda.  And you unthinkingly and unquestioningly bought it.

Think for yourself, kid.  I don't care what conclusions you come to -- but reach them by yourself.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Logic and Reason cannot penetrate this one.. Do NOT attempt a Vulcan Mind Meld...


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



That's typical Republican problem avoidance.  He gave the insurance companies a choice.  For some it made sense.  For others,  not. 

Republicans are obscuring the truth.  Nothing in Obamacare (until next year)  changed the demand for,  or cost of health care. So all of this fuss is over how that cost gets allocated and paid by the insurance companies and recovered through premiums.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Repeating propaganda doesn't make it less so.  It's still propaganda.  It's still self serving spin.  It's still thought control.  

The only thing you repeating it does is make you complicit in it,  rather than just a victim.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



It has nothing to do with economics. It has to do with companies working together to pay wealth creating workers as little as possible,  and wealth consuming executives as much as possible.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Obama lied to you, boy.  You only look more and more foolish insisting he didn't.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


...says the thought-controlled sheep.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


That's right.  What workers are paid _has nothing to do with economics_.

Stop drinking the bong water, kid.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
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> > daveman said:
> ...



Our economic system for competitive markets is capitalism.  It is based on each worker being compensated in proportion to the value that he or she adds.  

Companies colluding to hold workers wages down and executive compensation up is not capitalism. 

It's not economics. 

It's price fixing.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



You're the propaganda addict.  I know what I know from mainstream media.  News.  Not opinion.  I make my own opinions.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



He didn't gramps.  Republican propaganda lied to you.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


You're not worth more than minimum wage, kid.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...




The funniest part is you really believe that.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Yes.  Republicans EDITED ALL THE VIDEO OF ALL 28 TIMES Obama said if you like your coverage, you can keep it.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



The majority of the American electorate believes it.


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## Samson (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



If publically owned companies could fix prices, then why would executive pay at these companies be "held up?"

It's not logical.

It's Marxist blather.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Samson said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Companies collude to hold labor costs down and executive compensation up. 

They do that by searching for benchmark companies that may be successful at paying workers less than they,  and copying them. 

But in the board room the opposite tactic is used.  Finding companies paying more to executives and copying them. 

The only explanation for executive pay 1,000 X worker pay.

And you're worried about DOA Marxism.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Do you think they still believe it?

Errr, I mean, "What does the MSM tell you to think?"


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Look up the reputation of the Republican Party.  It has deservedly been falling like a rock as there is more and more evidence that they are unaffordable.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


And history shows that progressivism is unsustainable.

And no, it will NOT work here in America.  Period.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Mankind has never stopped progressing.  If that's not sustainable,  I don't know what is.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


You're confusing progressivism with progress.  The two bear nothing in common except some letters.

Progressives want the US to "progress" to the condition of the USSR circa 1964, minus the strong military.

That's not progress, kid.  That's the exact opposite.


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## PMZ (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Progressive is derived from progress.  

As far as " Progressives want the US to "progress" to the condition of the USSR circa 1964, minus the strong military ",  I've never read anything even remotely like that here except in this post.  

So,  I think that you are debating with yourself on this one. I wonder who will win? 

In the meantime I will always admire progress and work towards achieving it.


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## HUGGY (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Fear the control.  

Do not attempt to influence...  or CONTROL the overlords.  THEY know what is best for the masses.  THEY know what thier guidance is worth.  These things are above the average man's ability to understand.  The prices for the things you need are none of your business.  Just know you are lucky that they have not figured out how to charge you for the air you breath.  If they could..they would and you had better not complain about it.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 6, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



Wow.  One step above Franco. Maybe.  The second dumbest poster on this board.  At least you excel at something.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


If you haven't seen the parallels between progressivism and Communism, it's because you're not paying attention.

I'd offer to educate you, but you're impervious.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

HUGGY said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...


Yes, progressivism supports an all-powerful oligarchy, strictly limiting people's freedom -- "for their own good", of course.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 6, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



36 times he said "if you like your plan you can keep your plan."  No "ifs, and, buts, unless".  Just "Period."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpa-5JdCnmo]36 Times Obama Said You Could Keep Your Health Care Plan - YouTube[/ame]


In 2010 he knew this:

NBC: Administration Knew Obamacare Would Terminate Half Of Individual Plans | Washington Free Beacon


Within the past few days:  

Obama Tweaking ?If You Like Your Plan, You Can Keep Your Plan? - ABC News

Obama adds an 'if' to his 'you can keep your plan' promise - Washington Times

Obama adds caveat to 'You can keep it' declaration

Obama denies promising Americans they could absolutely keep their healthcare plans, but video shows him making that pledge | Mail Online


obama lies, spins, ignores; he's quite the master at it.  He continues his propaganda to the masses and you willingly follow, no questions asked.  Please, _please_ continue to bleat that _we're_ the sheep.


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## PMZ (Nov 6, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



And you don't.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 6, 2013)

Progressive means progress toward Socialism


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## PMZ (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



There are no parallels except in Republican propaganda. 

"We got nothing to offer but keeping the monsters in your closet."  Works on 3 year olds and conservatives.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 6, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



If you like your private health care plan, you can keep it.  Period.


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## PMZ (Nov 6, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



See,  that's up to your private health care insurer. Did you think that he meant that Obamacare was going to legislate that decision? 

Where could that idea have come from? 

Oh,  never mind.  I know. 

You know what they say about assume.


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## Kathy58 (Nov 6, 2013)

A good article today in the Washington Times that draws a correlation  between Orwell's 1984 and this administration;

Obama goes 1984: Like Big Brother, he's revising history of what he said | Washington Times Communities


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## koshergrl (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


 
They see the parallels, and they approve. Just as they see the parallels with the Nazi regime, and approve.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
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> ...


Kid, you're just pretty damn stupid.


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## Antares (Nov 6, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
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> > PMZ said:
> ...



I know that you choose to be stupid....but you really should be embarrassed for yourself.

You have zero idea as to what you speak, it's almost funny to watch.


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## rdean (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't "think" right wingers are stupid.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 6, 2013)

rdean said:


> I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't "think" right wingers are stupid.



After the word think you should have quit while you were ahead.


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## PMZ (Nov 6, 2013)

The Rabbi said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't "think" right wingers are stupid.
> ...



How clever are you.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

rdean said:


> I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't "think" right wingers are stupid.


*sigh*  Isn't Obama ever so dreamy?



Progressives have no self-respect.  Fawning bootlickers.


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## PMZ (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't "think" right wingers are stupid.
> ...



Our enemies have no respect for America and Americans.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
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> > rdean said:
> ...


Speaking of fawning bootlickers...

Am I your enemy, boy?  What are you going to do about it?  Post with unmerited arrogance on the internet?  That'll show me, won't it?

Run along, child.  You're hopelessly outclassed.


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## PMZ (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
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I can't think of a single person with less class than you.


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## The Rabbi (Nov 7, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
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You should have stopped with the word "think".  Quit while you're ahead, boy.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 7, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpa-5JdCnmo]36 Times Obama Said You Could Keep Your Health Care Plan - YouTube[/ame]

What he meant when he said 36 times "if you like your plan you can keep your plan.  Period" was that the (un)aca _wouldn't affect people's choice of keeping the plan they liked_.  The (un)aca did the opposite, it legislated people's choice. 

He. Lied.  _Period_.

"but, but, but obama!"  

Spin little spider, spin.


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## PMZ (Nov 7, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
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You're speaking to the problems of private corporation health care insurance. They can change policies every year at will. And do.  In service of make more money regardless of the cost to others. 

They were offered grandfathering.  Some chose it.  Some didn't.


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## PMZ (Nov 7, 2013)

It really is no exaggeration that Republicans do not have even one accomplishment to campaign on. 100% of what they can say to entice votes is based on democrats being even more incompetent than they. 

It's been a long fall for them.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 7, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
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Thirty-six times:  "If you like your plan you can keep your plan.  Period"  UNLESS was never spoken.

He. Lied.

Plans had a cost increase yet not one other thing changed ... but according to the (un)aca, the "plan" changed.  Coverage didn't, just a cost increase. Which this admin knew would happen between 2010 and 2013.  And yet ... obama continued on with his "you can keep it, period" lie.  

He lied, he lies, he is a liar.  Period. <--- no unless needed

Please, do continue


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## flacaltenn (Nov 7, 2013)

PMZ said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
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> ...



At the same time that Obama lied to me -- telling me that "I could keep my plan" --- he DID pass legislation that OUTLAWED my Prof Org from OFFERING me national group insurance thru that avenue.. 

HE and your revolutionary ShitHeads in Congress KNEW they were outlawing my plan WHILE they told me "I could keep it".. In this case, --- had NOTHING, NADA, ZERO to do with the insurance companies. 

In other cases --- asstroll --- folks that HAD plans that they liked were not told that their plans NOW HAD TO UNDER LAW --- remove the lifetime caps and cover transgender assignment surgery.  This was NOT ---- the plans that they liked.. And AGAIN --- the insurance companies were NOT the entities that FORCED modification to those plans. 

You have MAJOR CARRIERS like United HealthCare simply stating that they are LEAVING many states because they WILL NOT write individual policies that comply with ACA for small groups or individuals. And I don't blame them --- I BLAME MORONS LIKE YOU that make excuses for attempting to tear up their policies and WITHOUT NEGOTIATION -- force individuals OUT of their plans for no good reason.

As usual --- you got nothing.. You're on the wrong side of logic and reason. And you want to blame the problem on either a talk show host or CO2. WHEN in fact ---- USEFUL IDIOT TOOLS like yourself --------- ARE the problem.


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## PMZ (Nov 7, 2013)

flacaltenn said:


> PMZ said:
> 
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> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



He did his part,  grandfathering.  Talk to your insurance company if you're unhappy with their decisions.  Or pick another one. Free market you know.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 7, 2013)

^


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## flacaltenn (Nov 7, 2013)

PMZ said:


> flacaltenn said:
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Your Dear Leader should be ON HIS WAY TO JAIL --- for insurance FRAUD.. But that would only apply IF he was part of the "free market" wouldn't it? Where dishonesty, THEFT, and FRAUD actually has consequences.. 

Instead of competent PROFESSIONALS with DECADES of insurance experience managing my health care group.. Now I have a LYING ASS PREZ, and an army of ACORN agitators as UNLICENSED UNACCOUNTABLE navigators to "guide me".. 

Ex-cons who have NO IDEA what an actuarial table is.. But that wouldn't bother an asstroll would it?


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## PMZ (Nov 7, 2013)

flacaltenn said:


> PMZ said:
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Most people under 65 have insurance from private insurance companies. 

You must be the exception.  Medicaid?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 7, 2013)

PMZ said:


> flacaltenn said:
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no hell that is not his part staying out of my life is his part.


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## PMZ (Nov 7, 2013)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PMZ said:
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> > flacaltenn said:
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You can have that!


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## daveman (Nov 8, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
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...hes said, from the safe warm confines of Obama's transverse colon.

Meanwhile, you've utterly failed to answer the question (gasp  ):

Am I your enemy, boy?


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

U





daveman said:


> PMZ said:
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> ...



Yes,  America's enemies are my enemies gramps.


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## Bern80 (Nov 8, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm still waiting to hear from someone who supposedly just loooved his non-compliant policy...



Easy. Anyone on here in the poor house qualifying for a subsidy. I'm sure they love it.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 8, 2013)

From 2010:



> Throughout the health reform debate, the President has been clear that we should build on the insurance system we have, keeping the parts that work and gradually fixing the parts that dont.
> 
> *The Affordable Care Act is designed to let Americans keep their health insurance if they like it *while adding important consumer benefits to give businesses, families and individuals higher quality (my comment:  higher quality care = more things covered whether you need/want them or not = _less _choice for the consumer) care at lower prices and more control over their own care (my comment:  less control because you have less choice).
> 
> ...



Keeping the Plan You Like | The White House





> *In November 2010, HHS modified the regulation to provide even further flexibility for larger companies, even allowing them to change insurance providers without losing grandfathered status,* despite already giving them favorable treatment. According to the HHS fact-check:
> 
> Previously, one of the ways an employer group health plan could lose its grandfather status was if the employer changed issuers  switching from one insurance company to another. The original regulation only allowed self-funded plans to change third-party administrators without necessarily losing their grandfathered plan status. Todays amendment allows all group health plans to switch insurance companies and shop for the same coverage at a lower cost while maintaining their grandfathered status, so long as the structure of the coverage doesnt violate one of the other rules for maintaining grandfathered plan status.
> 
> ...



Obama modified 'grandfathering' rules to benefit businesses | The Daily Caller


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 8, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm still waiting to hear from someone who supposedly just loooved his non-compliant policy...



My brother had an individual catastrophic plan.  It did not cover prescriptions because the one prescription he takes only needs to be filled once or twice a year and he would rather pay out of pocket because that is cheaper.  It covered four doc visits per year.  It covered catastrophic things ... cancer, accidents, hospitalization. You know, the big stuff.  It was reasonably priced ($156/month) with a reasonable deductible ($3,000/yr or so, might be a bit less than that).  

Now?   He's looking at at least double premium for similar coverage, and that coverage includes things he neither needs nor wants but has zero choice in having and a higher deductible.  This is an individual plan that is still with IBC.  He went to a meeting last week to obtain this info ... not one person who attended the meeting was under 50 but every single one of them will have to pay for things (maternity, newborn, pediatric) they will never need, use, want.  

Go on, joe, sing the obama praise some more.

Idiot.


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> From 2010:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



" Only four months later, President Obamas administration would release the regulations, ensuring that most of the seventeen million people with individual coverage would lose their plans, whether they liked them or not. "

What were those regulations that eliminated the grandfathering choice for insurance companies?


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 8, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > From 2010:
> ...



What difference, at this point, does it make?  _obama knew from Nov 2010 that individual health insurance plans would be cancelled and yet he continuously said "if you like your plan you can keep your plan.  Period"_.  He didn't say "if you like your group plan you can keep your group plan; 17 million who have individual plans will likely have yours cancelled".  He didn't say "if you like your plan you can keep your plan UNLESS ...".  Hell, he didn't even say "if you like your plan you can keep your plan unless the newly re-written grand-father regulations prohibit that, please make sure to find out if this pertains to you.  For information on this please go here."

He knew millions would lose their plans and yet he went out and lied about it by saying "if you like your plan you can keep your plan.  Period."


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



I think you are trying to sell the Republican desperate propaganda that blames Obama on insurance business decisions.  

What we're the regulations that eliminated the grandfathering choice?


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 8, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
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Try reading what I posted, above.  They pandered to business group coverage and nailed individual coverage for those same changes.

You don't think at all.  Why do you refuse to comment on the obvious?  Regardless of what the regulations were/were changed to .... _the fact is that obama paraded around and continuously, repeatedly, matter-of-factly stated that "if you like your plan you can keep your plan. Period". _ He put no conditions on his statement, did he?  You have dodged this over and over and over in this thread and constantly try to shift the fact that obama lied onto the insurance companies.  You are wrong.  And no one is blaming obama for decisions that businesses make ... we're blaming obama for lying to people when he said they could keep their plans.  

If the case was "you can keep your plan if you like your plan UNLESS your provider blah, blah, blah" he should have stated such.  He. Did. Not.  and he knew for three years that millions would get the shaft.  He lied.  Keep dancing around it.


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> PMZ said:
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> > Zoom-boing said:
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What we're the regulations that eliminated the grandfathering of existing policies?


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## flacaltenn (Nov 8, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
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> > PMZ said:
> ...



We've already explained that to you multiple times.. Go read back.. 

All I can tell you PMZ --- is that the title of thread was designed with you in mind. 




Spoiler: Do you Remember the Title?



Obama thinks we're all stupid. *Some of you really are*.


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

flacaltenn said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



Then how come nobody can explain it again? Alzeheimers?


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## flacaltenn (Nov 8, 2013)

I think it would help PMZ if you were here to CONVERSE AND LISTEN to others.. Rather than use this opportunity to vent your political frustrations.. Zoom and others have explained to you that "grandfathering" means nothing IF at the same time you DEMAND BY LAW changes to those policies that NEUTRALIZES the "grandfathering". That's what your lying ass Dem leadership did.. 

See for instance MY STORY -- which WASN'T about the quality of my plan. It was because they never GAVE ME A CHANCE to "grandfather" anything.. Your THEIVES simply outlawed the ability of Groups to form nationally ((unless you're a union or politically connected and get a waiver))

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...id-some-of-you-really-are-45.html#post8112883


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## RandallFlagg (Nov 8, 2013)

flacaltenn said:


> I think it would help PMZ if you were here to CONVERSE AND LISTEN to others.. Rather than use this opportunity to vent your political frustrations.. Zoom and others have explained to you that "grandfathering" means nothing IF at the same time you DEMAND BY LAW changes to those policies that NEUTRALIZES the "grandfathering". That's what your lying ass Dem leadership did..
> 
> See for instance MY STORY -- which WASN'T about the quality of my plan. It was because they never GAVE ME A CHANCE to "grandfather" anything.. Your THEIVES simply outlawed the ability of Groups to form nationally ((unless you're a union or politically connected and get a waiver))
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...id-some-of-you-really-are-45.html#post8112883



That's what liberals do. They cloud the issue with "details" that obscure and obfuscate. Or they outright just change the conversation.

Let's look at this realistically, shall we?

What was Obarrycare "supposed" to do? It was "supposed" to insure the "18 million uninsured". What has it done, thus far? It has created more than 5 million MORE uninsured. This is non disputable. Thoise "uninsured" are signing up, not for Obarrycare, but for FREE Medicaid at the expense of the American taxpayer.

In 2014 when the employer mandate kicks in, it is estimated that there will be anywhere from 10 to 20 million additional people added to the roles of the uninsured.

Now, I'm certain that the cult of Obama will tell you straightaway that "it is an unqualified success" but where I come from (the REAL world) it is an unmitigated disaster that only promises to get much, MUCH worse before it is finally replaced by the socialist single payer plan - inevitably.

So, the only thing, in my book that has been accomplished is the death of the best healthcare system the world has even known - to subjugate tens of millions to the socialist system and "fundamentally transform" the United States of America into just another bottom-feeding country.

Congratulations liberals.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 8, 2013)

Just saw tape of Jay Carney over the past week or so saying exactly what PMS is saying ... that it's the insurance companies fault, obama gets a pass.  PMS is just parroting leftist bs talking points, nothing more.  Not worth the time.


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## daveman (Nov 8, 2013)

PMZ said:


> U
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How, exactly, am I your enemy, boy?


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## Papageorgio (Nov 8, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > U
> ...



Because you think for yourself. Liberals believe that is dangerous.


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > U
> ...



Gramps,  you are dedicated to bringing my country down.  You are the equivalent of the Taliban except you are already inside my country. You are the enemy of America and all Americans


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



A conservative that thinks for himself and independently concludes that everything he's heard on Fox is flawless. 

Right.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 8, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



You know how fucking stupid you are? I don't watch FOX News, I don't care what it broadcasts. You assholes are tied to HuffPo, MSNBC and Slate. You fuckers have never thought for yourselves


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## PMZ (Nov 8, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Nobody admits to Fox.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
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That is because I don't watch it, you pay more attention to it and Limbaugh than most conservatives. I don't understand the lefts massive obsession with things conservatives don't care about. I am usually on-line to read stories. They are mostly AP, NYT and CNN. It's easy to tell when they are bullshitting everyone, unless you are a liberal, then it's gospel.


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## LilOlLady (Nov 9, 2013)

Obama did not cancel your insurance you were happy with. Your insurance company did because they did not want to give you your money's worth of healthcare. Obamacare will give you idots a better deal than the insurance you were happy with. I still stand by my man.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> PMZ said:
> 
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> ...



Nobody admits to Fox.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> Obama did not cancel your insurance you were happy with. Your insurance company did because they did not want to give you your money's worth of healthcare. Obamacare will give you idots a better deal than the insurance you were happy with. I still stand by my man.



In the absence of Republican propaganda,  the introduction of ACA would be a non event.  People would objectively understand it,  and would be bouyed through the inevitable start up issues by the public's overwhelmingly good experience with Medicare.  Including the highly functional Medicare website. 

In fact, in the absence of Republican propaganda,  we would have undoubtedly took on greater progress in fixing our largest obstacle to global competitiveness. 

Republicanism,  in its current form, is the most destructive internal force America has faced. 

There are only two choices.  Republicans exorcise their conservative demons, or Americans exorcise Republicans from government.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Obama did not cancel your insurance you were happy with. Your insurance company did because they did not want to give you your money's worth of healthcare. Obamacare will give you idots a better deal than the insurance you were happy with. I still stand by my man.
> ...


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## BobPlumb (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > PMZ said:
> ...



I'm watching Fox now.  All the news sources are bias.  I would rather watch Fox than an "Obama caused a tingle up my leg" news source.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

BobPlumb said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Prepackaged opinions are the opium of the ignorant.


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## daveman (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
> 
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> > PMZ said:
> ...


I didn't ask for progressive bullshit that gets passed around the prog echo chambers, boy.  I wanted something original.

Are you capable?


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## daveman (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Who's saying that about Fox?

Oh, yes -- no one.

Can't you be honest for two minutes in a row, boy?


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
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> > daveman said:
> ...



Gramps,  there's no sense in me posting what's over your head. Dumbing down to that degree is a stretch for me,  but I'm going to keep trying.


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## BobPlumb (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



A liberal/progressive thinks for himself  and concludes that everything the president says is truthful, right?

I hear a train just starting to wreck and Obama is the engineer.  This train will be wrecking for a very long time and doing  loads of damage.


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## daveman (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> daveman said:
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So, you have nothing rational to say.  All you have is proglodyte programming to repeat.  

Run along, kid.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

BobPlumb said:


> PMZ said:
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> ...



Look at things objectively.  Democrats are riding on the reputation of a President that will be judged by history as one of the best.  Republicans,  unfortunately for the real ones,  are being dragged down by the measured results of the worst.  

Democrats have no need for anything but the truth.  The Republicans must run as far away,  and as fast as possible, from it. They have no options.  Their panic is palpable. 

Republicans have only two options.  Redeem themselves by exorcising dixiecrats,  or be exercised from government.  It's completely their choice.


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## BobPlumb (Nov 9, 2013)

One of the best presidents as judged by history, my ass!  

I could be wrong about that; after all, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

BobPlumb said:


> One of the best presidents as judged by history, my ass!
> 
> I could be wrong about that; after all, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.



You are wrong about that.  Instead you believe Republican propaganda.  We read about you in 1984.


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## daveman (Nov 9, 2013)

PMZ said:


> BobPlumb said:
> 
> 
> > One of the best presidents as judged by history, my ass!
> ...


Ironically, you weren't even alive in 1984.  

And _1984_ was a warning against unchecked progressivism.  True story.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

daveman said:


> PMZ said:
> 
> 
> > BobPlumb said:
> ...



1984 was about tyrannical thought control.  Propaganda.  It was the basis for the present Republican campaign strategy.  The only difference between the book and current reality was it had succeeded in the book.


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## PMZ (Nov 9, 2013)

Just saw '12 Years As a Slave'. 

If you want to see the fine stock that dixiecrats evolved from,  go see it.


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