# 3 men invade home, shoot man in the leg, in gun free Australia....



## 2aguy

So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......

Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion


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## Dekster

Did they buy their weapons through the NRA?


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## 2aguy

Dekster said:


> Did they buy their weapons through the NRA?




Do you understand that the NRA doesn't sell guns?   Are you that clueless, or just stupid?


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## HenryBHough

Stupid and indoctrinated are not the same thing.

Though it does take an excess of the first to easily achieve the second.


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## Dekster

2aguy said:


> Dekster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they buy their weapons through the NRA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand that the NRA doesn't sell guns?   Are you that clueless, or just stupid?
Click to expand...


So the answer is "Yes, but lets conceal it."  Thanks.


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## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......
> 
> Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion



This has all happened before and will all happen again. 

Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?

I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.


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## anotherlife

The US doesn't have a 2nd Amendment any more.  The US used to have a 2nd Amendment 100 years ago, when you could walk into any store that the government walked in and buy anything that the government also bought.  Now try to buy any fully automatic rifle without some DoD paper.


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## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......
> 
> Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has all happened before and will all happen again.
> 
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?
> 
> I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.
Click to expand...



Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.

A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review

University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”

“Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”

A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.

*The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*

*=======*

*2007 report..

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf

Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
------

However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
=========*

*2008 report...*

*
http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf

In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates. 
-------

6. Conclusion 

This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*


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## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......
> 
> Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has all happened before and will all happen again.
> 
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?
> 
> I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.
> 
> A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
Click to expand...


So your answer is gun crime is lower in Australia?  That's all I'm reading between your lines.

Let's work on this.  Post them links to gun crime rates in the Northern U.S. and lets compare that to Australia.


----------



## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......
> 
> Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has all happened before and will all happen again.
> 
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?
> 
> I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.
> 
> A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your answer is gun crime is lower in Australia?  That's all I'm reading between your lines.
> 
> Let's work on this.  Post them links to gun crime rates in the Northern U.S. and lets compare that to Australia.
Click to expand...



I just did.....actual research on the rates of gun crime showing that the gun control laws in Australia had nothing to do with their crime rates lowering.........

And criminals have all the guns they want.....

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

*The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

*These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*

*----*

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

*Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*

*-------------*

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

*Gun crime soars*
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:


There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
*Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============


The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.


*And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......
> 
> Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has all happened before and will all happen again.
> 
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?
> 
> I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.
> 
> A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
Click to expand...


Really? A dozen public shootings since their ban in 1996? We had that many today. We should do what they are doing.


----------



## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......
> 
> Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has all happened before and will all happen again.
> 
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?
> 
> I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.
> 
> A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your answer is gun crime is lower in Australia?  That's all I'm reading between your lines.
> 
> Let's work on this.  Post them links to gun crime rates in the Northern U.S. and lets compare that to Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I just did.....actual research on the rates of gun crime showing that the gun control laws in Australia had nothing to do with their crime rates lowering.........
> 
> And criminals have all the guns they want.....
> 
> Gun city: Young, dumb and armed
> 
> *The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*
> 
> Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.
> 
> *These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*
> 
> *----*
> 
> Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
> 
> Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year
> 
> -----------
> 
> While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.
> 
> *Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*
> 
> *-------------*
> 
> These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.
> 
> “They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.
> 
> “It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”
> 
> ------------
> 
> *Gun crime soars*
> In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.
> 
> The investigation has found:
> 
> 
> There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
> Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
> The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
> Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
> *Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
> In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
> ============
> 
> 
> The second part of the series....
> Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West
> 
> 
> ========================
> 'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty
> 
> Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."
> 
> The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.
> 
> 
> *And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*
Click to expand...


You keep doing all this work bringing up places with less gun violence than the U.S. has!  Its like you are saying, "If we had Xxxxx's gun laws we'd have x,xxx fewer murders per year"


----------



## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So again, please let us know which gun control law in Australia kept these men with the illegal gun from walking into a mall, a school, a church, a theater, a synagogue and shooting a bunch of people.......
> 
> Man shot in violent 'targeted' home invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has all happened before and will all happen again.
> 
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?
> 
> I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.
> 
> A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your answer is gun crime is lower in Australia?  That's all I'm reading between your lines.
> 
> Let's work on this.  Post them links to gun crime rates in the Northern U.S. and lets compare that to Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I just did.....actual research on the rates of gun crime showing that the gun control laws in Australia had nothing to do with their crime rates lowering.........
> 
> And criminals have all the guns they want.....
> 
> Gun city: Young, dumb and armed
> 
> *The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*
> 
> Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.
> 
> *These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*
> 
> *----*
> 
> Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
> 
> Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year
> 
> -----------
> 
> While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.
> 
> *Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*
> 
> *-------------*
> 
> These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.
> 
> “They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.
> 
> “It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”
> 
> ------------
> 
> *Gun crime soars*
> In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.
> 
> The investigation has found:
> 
> 
> There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
> Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
> The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
> Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
> *Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
> In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
> ============
> 
> 
> The second part of the series....
> Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West
> 
> 
> ========================
> 'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty
> 
> Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."
> 
> The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.
> 
> 
> *And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep doing all this work bringing up places with less gun violence than the U.S. has!  Its like you are saying, "If we had Xxxxx's gun laws we'd have x,xxx fewer murders per year"
Click to expand...



Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........


----------



## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This has all happened before and will all happen again.
> 
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> Maybe these stats are wrong.  They seem to say gun laws work in Australia.  So as the Manchurian poster trying to ENCOURAGE tougher gun laws you go and start a discussion on a single event inviting others to post the stats?
> 
> I OWN a gun.  We have the 2nd amendment and all its commas so guns are going to stay legal unless the NRA screws up and forgets to show up in support of hispanic citizens or gay rights and gets themseves and us gun owners viewed as a bunch of archaic racists who are going to fight the 101st to keep kids out of school with our guns or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.
> 
> A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your answer is gun crime is lower in Australia?  That's all I'm reading between your lines.
> 
> Let's work on this.  Post them links to gun crime rates in the Northern U.S. and lets compare that to Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I just did.....actual research on the rates of gun crime showing that the gun control laws in Australia had nothing to do with their crime rates lowering.........
> 
> And criminals have all the guns they want.....
> 
> Gun city: Young, dumb and armed
> 
> *The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*
> 
> Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.
> 
> *These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*
> 
> *----*
> 
> Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
> 
> Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year
> 
> -----------
> 
> While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.
> 
> *Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*
> 
> *-------------*
> 
> These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.
> 
> “They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.
> 
> “It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”
> 
> ------------
> 
> *Gun crime soars*
> In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.
> 
> The investigation has found:
> 
> 
> There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
> Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
> The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
> Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
> *Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
> In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
> ============
> 
> 
> The second part of the series....
> Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West
> 
> 
> ========================
> 'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty
> 
> Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."
> 
> The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.
> 
> 
> *And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep doing all this work bringing up places with less gun violence than the U.S. has!  Its like you are saying, "If we had Xxxxx's gun laws we'd have x,xxx fewer murders per year"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
Click to expand...


Mention cultural differences or something.

If you just want to say:

You are xx% safer in Australia say it.

If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.


----------



## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gun crime is on the rise in Australia.....and their gun control laws have not stopped mass public shootings......there have been about a dozen public shootings since the ban and confiscation, the most recent last week.
> 
> A closer look at the effects of their gun laws.....
> 
> Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review
> 
> University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”
> 
> “Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”
> 
> A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.
> 
> *The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”*
> 
> *=======*
> 
> *2007 report..
> 
> http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf
> 
> Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
> ------
> 
> However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution
> =========*
> 
> *2008 report...*
> 
> *
> http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf
> 
> In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
> -------
> 
> 6. Conclusion
> 
> This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your answer is gun crime is lower in Australia?  That's all I'm reading between your lines.
> 
> Let's work on this.  Post them links to gun crime rates in the Northern U.S. and lets compare that to Australia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I just did.....actual research on the rates of gun crime showing that the gun control laws in Australia had nothing to do with their crime rates lowering.........
> 
> And criminals have all the guns they want.....
> 
> Gun city: Young, dumb and armed
> 
> *The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*
> 
> Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.
> 
> *These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*
> 
> *----*
> 
> Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
> 
> Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year
> 
> -----------
> 
> While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.
> 
> *Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*
> 
> *-------------*
> 
> These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.
> 
> “They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.
> 
> “It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”
> 
> ------------
> 
> *Gun crime soars*
> In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.
> 
> The investigation has found:
> 
> 
> There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
> Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
> The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
> Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
> *Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
> In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
> ============
> 
> 
> The second part of the series....
> Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West
> 
> 
> ========================
> 'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty
> 
> Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."
> 
> The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.
> 
> 
> *And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep doing all this work bringing up places with less gun violence than the U.S. has!  Its like you are saying, "If we had Xxxxx's gun laws we'd have x,xxx fewer murders per year"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
Click to expand...



Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....

We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......

Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...


----------



## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So your answer is gun crime is lower in Australia?  That's all I'm reading between your lines.
> 
> Let's work on this.  Post them links to gun crime rates in the Northern U.S. and lets compare that to Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just did.....actual research on the rates of gun crime showing that the gun control laws in Australia had nothing to do with their crime rates lowering.........
> 
> And criminals have all the guns they want.....
> 
> Gun city: Young, dumb and armed
> 
> *The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*
> 
> Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.
> 
> *These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*
> 
> *----*
> 
> Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
> 
> Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year
> 
> -----------
> 
> While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.
> 
> *Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*
> 
> *-------------*
> 
> These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.
> 
> “They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.
> 
> “It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”
> 
> ------------
> 
> *Gun crime soars*
> In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.
> 
> The investigation has found:
> 
> 
> There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
> Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
> The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
> Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
> *Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
> In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
> ============
> 
> 
> The second part of the series....
> Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West
> 
> 
> ========================
> 'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty
> 
> Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."
> 
> The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.
> 
> 
> *And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep doing all this work bringing up places with less gun violence than the U.S. has!  Its like you are saying, "If we had Xxxxx's gun laws we'd have x,xxx fewer murders per year"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....
> 
> We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......
> 
> Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...
Click to expand...


Loosen your Star Wars Episode IV good vs evil world cheerleader skirt and modify your statement to "We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas the Republicans haven't fled..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of republican evacuated cities"

And I may hit the agree button.

You see, the ghettos here were built and abandoned by Republicans.  The migration is as clear as the land bridge migration maps.  Perhaps they did something wrong?


----------



## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just did.....actual research on the rates of gun crime showing that the gun control laws in Australia had nothing to do with their crime rates lowering.........
> 
> And criminals have all the guns they want.....
> 
> Gun city: Young, dumb and armed
> 
> *The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.*
> 
> Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.
> 
> *These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.*
> 
> *----*
> 
> Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
> 
> Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year
> 
> -----------
> 
> While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.
> 
> *Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.*
> 
> *-------------*
> 
> These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.
> 
> “They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.
> 
> “It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”
> 
> ------------
> 
> *Gun crime soars*
> In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.
> 
> The investigation has found:
> 
> 
> There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
> Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
> The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
> Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
> *Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts*
> In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
> ============
> 
> 
> The second part of the series....
> Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West
> 
> 
> ========================
> 'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty
> 
> Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."
> 
> The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.
> 
> 
> *And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep doing all this work bringing up places with less gun violence than the U.S. has!  Its like you are saying, "If we had Xxxxx's gun laws we'd have x,xxx fewer murders per year"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....
> 
> We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......
> 
> Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Loosen your Star Wars Episode IV good vs evil world cheerleader skirt and modify your statement to "We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas the Republicans haven't fled..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of republican evacuated cities"
> 
> And I may hit the agree button.
> 
> You see, the ghettos here were built and abandoned by Republicans.  The migration is as clear as the land bridge migration maps.  Perhaps they did something wrong?
Click to expand...



Wrong, they were built by LBJs Great Society, destroying families across all races, an in particular Black families the worst....with over 70% out of wedlock birth rates......

Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America

In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

------

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.

And this....where murder happens...notice where the deaths happen?


----------



## Toronado3800

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep doing all this work bringing up places with less gun violence than the U.S. has!  Its like you are saying, "If we had Xxxxx's gun laws we'd have x,xxx fewer murders per year"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....
> 
> We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......
> 
> Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Loosen your Star Wars Episode IV good vs evil world cheerleader skirt and modify your statement to "We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas the Republicans haven't fled..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of republican evacuated cities"
> 
> And I may hit the agree button.
> 
> You see, the ghettos here were built and abandoned by Republicans.  The migration is as clear as the land bridge migration maps.  Perhaps they did something wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, they were built by LBJs Great Society, destroying families across all races, an in particular Black families the worst....with over 70% out of wedlock birth rates......
> 
> Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America
> 
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.
> 
> ------
> 
> As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.
> 
> And this....where murder happens...notice where the deaths happen?
Click to expand...



Just like that post in which you blame from almost none to some gun violence in Australia on strict gun laws which have been in place despite Australia having less gun violence than the U.S. as a whole, you are missing the point.

If you really want to talk parties I can play the game.

The great white flight suburbs of St Louis WERE republican when they were built.  The great white flight 'burbs of Chesterfield and St Charles MO are republican.  Watch old town St Charles by "Crime Center" apartments, the flight has begun and the Republicans are fleeing to the former farmlands of Wentzville MO (there is a heavily subsidized GM plant there).  

Decade after decade new subdivisions get built and the values of houses in old ones plummet.  Its a pattern.

But yeah, go figure, your map is right, there is more crime in the ghetto and those with money have moved away first out of racism then pragmatism.  






Wanna go guess how the property value line breaks up the 'burbs and then the farmer welfare line turns on in the outlying methville areas?

Now if you want to talk stricter sentencing I can agree.  If you wanna claim gun laws in places with less gun violence don't work, you should post some of them links to gun crime numbers in the northern U.S. vs other places (I am helping you onto an interesting topic here!).  If you want to kneel at the altar of your party heroes or satisfy those who pay you to post the way you must bend the logic is going to lose you supporters from anyone who actually reads this.


----------



## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....
> 
> We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......
> 
> Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Loosen your Star Wars Episode IV good vs evil world cheerleader skirt and modify your statement to "We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas the Republicans haven't fled..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of republican evacuated cities"
> 
> And I may hit the agree button.
> 
> You see, the ghettos here were built and abandoned by Republicans.  The migration is as clear as the land bridge migration maps.  Perhaps they did something wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, they were built by LBJs Great Society, destroying families across all races, an in particular Black families the worst....with over 70% out of wedlock birth rates......
> 
> Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America
> 
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.
> 
> ------
> 
> As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.
> 
> And this....where murder happens...notice where the deaths happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like that post in which you blame from almost none to some gun violence in Australia on strict gun laws which have been in place despite Australia having less gun violence than the U.S. as a whole, you are missing the point.
> 
> If you really want to talk parties I can play the game.
> 
> The great white flight suburbs of St Louis WERE republican when they were built.  The great white flight 'burbs of Chesterfield and St Charles MO are republican.  Watch old town St Charles by "Crime Center" apartments, the flight has begun and the Republicans are fleeing to the former farmlands of Wentzville MO (there is a heavily subsidized GM plant there).
> 
> Decade after decade new subdivisions get built and the values of houses in old ones plummet.  Its a pattern.
> 
> But yeah, go figure, your map is right, there is more crime in the ghetto and those with money have moved away first out of racism then pragmatism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna go guess how the property value line breaks up the 'burbs and then the farmer welfare line turns on in the outlying methville areas?
> 
> Now if you want to talk stricter sentencing I can agree.  If you wanna claim gun laws in places with less gun violence don't work, you should post some of them links to gun crime numbers in the northern U.S. vs other places (I am helping you onto an interesting topic here!).  If you want to kneel at the altar of your party heroes or satisfy those who pay you to post the way you must bend the logic is going to lose you supporters from anyone who actually reads this.
Click to expand...



St. Louis.....Mayors of St. Louis, Missouri....... democrat since 1949...

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia

The result of their policies?

Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

*Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.*

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. *And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,”* an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

*Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. *Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
*When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.*

*In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.*


----------



## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....
> 
> We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......
> 
> Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Loosen your Star Wars Episode IV good vs evil world cheerleader skirt and modify your statement to "We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas the Republicans haven't fled..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of republican evacuated cities"
> 
> And I may hit the agree button.
> 
> You see, the ghettos here were built and abandoned by Republicans.  The migration is as clear as the land bridge migration maps.  Perhaps they did something wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, they were built by LBJs Great Society, destroying families across all races, an in particular Black families the worst....with over 70% out of wedlock birth rates......
> 
> Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America
> 
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.
> 
> ------
> 
> As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.
> 
> And this....where murder happens...notice where the deaths happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like that post in which you blame from almost none to some gun violence in Australia on strict gun laws which have been in place despite Australia having less gun violence than the U.S. as a whole, you are missing the point.
> 
> If you really want to talk parties I can play the game.
> 
> The great white flight suburbs of St Louis WERE republican when they were built.  The great white flight 'burbs of Chesterfield and St Charles MO are republican.  Watch old town St Charles by "Crime Center" apartments, the flight has begun and the Republicans are fleeing to the former farmlands of Wentzville MO (there is a heavily subsidized GM plant there).
> 
> Decade after decade new subdivisions get built and the values of houses in old ones plummet.  Its a pattern.
> 
> But yeah, go figure, your map is right, there is more crime in the ghetto and those with money have moved away first out of racism then pragmatism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna go guess how the property value line breaks up the 'burbs and then the farmer welfare line turns on in the outlying methville areas?
> 
> Now if you want to talk stricter sentencing I can agree.  If you wanna claim gun laws in places with less gun violence don't work, you should post some of them links to gun crime numbers in the northern U.S. vs other places (I am helping you onto an interesting topic here!).  If you want to kneel at the altar of your party heroes or satisfy those who pay you to post the way you must bend the logic is going to lose you supporters from anyone who actually reads this.
Click to expand...


Mayor of Chicago......democrat since 1931......

Mayor of Chicago - Wikipedia

The result of democrat policies in Chicago...

Officials Address 'Vicious Cycle' Of I-Bond Violations After Violent Weekend

Many of the gun offenders arrested by Chicago police over the weekend walked out of jail on bond, without having to pay a dime.

As of Monday morning, 19 people had been arrested on gun-related charges. By Monday afternoon, 11 were back on the street, some with prior gun offenses.

“We know who a lot of these people are,” Chicago Police Supt. Eddie Johnson said. “And how do we know that? Because we keep arresting them over and over and over and over and over again. And it’s just a vicious cycle.”

In a tweet Sunday night, a Chicago police spokesperson criticized the practice of letting gun offenders out on Individual Recognizance Bonds or “I-Bonds.”
-----

The tweet said, in part, “Letting gun offenders out on I-Bonds shows there is absolutely no repercussion for carrying illegal guns In Chicago.”
-----
In a statement, an office representative said since the beginning of this year, 72% of gun related cases received monetary bail or no bond.


----------



## 2aguy

Toronado3800 said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the lie of Australian and European gun control takes time.....lying about Australian gun control stopping gun crime is easy........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....
> 
> We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......
> 
> Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Loosen your Star Wars Episode IV good vs evil world cheerleader skirt and modify your statement to "We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas the Republicans haven't fled..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of republican evacuated cities"
> 
> And I may hit the agree button.
> 
> You see, the ghettos here were built and abandoned by Republicans.  The migration is as clear as the land bridge migration maps.  Perhaps they did something wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, they were built by LBJs Great Society, destroying families across all races, an in particular Black families the worst....with over 70% out of wedlock birth rates......
> 
> Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America
> 
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.
> 
> ------
> 
> As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.
> 
> And this....where murder happens...notice where the deaths happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like that post in which you blame from almost none to some gun violence in Australia on strict gun laws which have been in place despite Australia having less gun violence than the U.S. as a whole, you are missing the point.
> 
> If you really want to talk parties I can play the game.
> 
> The great white flight suburbs of St Louis WERE republican when they were built.  The great white flight 'burbs of Chesterfield and St Charles MO are republican.  Watch old town St Charles by "Crime Center" apartments, the flight has begun and the Republicans are fleeing to the former farmlands of Wentzville MO (there is a heavily subsidized GM plant there).
> 
> Decade after decade new subdivisions get built and the values of houses in old ones plummet.  Its a pattern.
> 
> But yeah, go figure, your map is right, there is more crime in the ghetto and those with money have moved away first out of racism then pragmatism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna go guess how the property value line breaks up the 'burbs and then the farmer welfare line turns on in the outlying methville areas?
> 
> Now if you want to talk stricter sentencing I can agree.  If you wanna claim gun laws in places with less gun violence don't work, you should post some of them links to gun crime numbers in the northern U.S. vs other places (I am helping you onto an interesting topic here!).  If you want to kneel at the altar of your party heroes or satisfy those who pay you to post the way you must bend the logic is going to lose you supporters from anyone who actually reads this.
Click to expand...



From the actual murder map...Wisconsin....notice where the gun murder takes place.......democrat or socialist since 1916...

List of mayors of Milwaukee - Wikipedia


----------



## 2aguy

Murder map of Tennessee......Memphis, in Shelby county?  Democrats....again....Nashville...on the murder map........democrat since at least 1951 if not longer....


----------



## Flash

2aguy said:


> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toronado3800 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mention cultural differences or something.
> 
> If you just want to say:
> 
> You are xx% safer in Australia say it.
> 
> If you want to say gun control isn't why you are xx% safer in Australia, go for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australia doesn't have the cultural damage....yet.....but they are seeing an increase in violent crime.   They have imported violent people from the 3rd world, just like Europe, and they are seeing more gun crime because of it.....
> 
> We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas under the control of the democrat party..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities......
> 
> Australia is an island, and has been lucky....that luck is not holding anymore...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Loosen your Star Wars Episode IV good vs evil world cheerleader skirt and modify your statement to "We are as safer or safer in most parts of the United States, as long as you stay out of areas the Republicans haven't fled..... almost all of our gun murder is confined to tiny areas of republican evacuated cities"
> 
> And I may hit the agree button.
> 
> You see, the ghettos here were built and abandoned by Republicans.  The migration is as clear as the land bridge migration maps.  Perhaps they did something wrong?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> Wrong, they were built by LBJs Great Society, destroying families across all races, an in particular Black families the worst....with over 70% out of wedlock birth rates......
> 
> Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America
> 
> In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.
> 
> ------
> 
> As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.
> 
> And this....where murder happens...notice where the deaths happen?
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> Just like that post in which you blame from almost none to some gun violence in Australia on strict gun laws which have been in place despite Australia having less gun violence than the U.S. as a whole, you are missing the point.
> 
> If you really want to talk parties I can play the game.
> 
> The great white flight suburbs of St Louis WERE republican when they were built.  The great white flight 'burbs of Chesterfield and St Charles MO are republican.  Watch old town St Charles by "Crime Center" apartments, the flight has begun and the Republicans are fleeing to the former farmlands of Wentzville MO (there is a heavily subsidized GM plant there).
> 
> Decade after decade new subdivisions get built and the values of houses in old ones plummet.  Its a pattern.
> 
> But yeah, go figure, your map is right, there is more crime in the ghetto and those with money have moved away first out of racism then pragmatism.
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> 
> Wanna go guess how the property value line breaks up the 'burbs and then the farmer welfare line turns on in the outlying methville areas?
> 
> Now if you want to talk stricter sentencing I can agree.  If you wanna claim gun laws in places with less gun violence don't work, you should post some of them links to gun crime numbers in the northern U.S. vs other places (I am helping you onto an interesting topic here!).  If you want to kneel at the altar of your party heroes or satisfy those who pay you to post the way you must bend the logic is going to lose you supporters from anyone who actually reads this.
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> From the actual murder map...Wisconsin....notice where the gun murder takes place.......democrat or socialist since 1916...
> 
> List of mayors of Milwaukee - Wikipedia
Click to expand...



All that crime in Democrat controlled shitholes.


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