# We really need to understand there are differences



## IM2 (Nov 6, 2017)

For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.

What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.

There is a major difference and intelligent adults should be able to recognize that difference and try understanding how you would feel if you were the group told how you were all stupid, that your race has never done anything, and that if not for the white man you'd be nothing. I don't think you'd appreciate being called a racist for saying your race is superior after reading pages of how inferior you are to whites in every way. Only a human with no personal pride would accept this kind if constant denigration without fighting back. Yet here blacks doing this are called racists.

Blacks did not choose to come here on the Mayflower with a belief they were superior and more civilized than everyone else. We were bought here on ships like the Amistad then sold into lifetime bondage because of that belief. Then after slavery was made illegal whites created another system on inequality that continued to enforce that same belief for an additional 100 plus years. Only in the last  52 years have blacks been at least free from overt racist beliefs from whites. *52 YEARS!* Therefore to try making our experiences here the same and our responses to race and racism the same as whites is erroneous and this error is what needs to stop .


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## Moonglow (Nov 6, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
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> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
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No one ask any blacks to take a ride on the Mayflower..


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## IM2 (Nov 6, 2017)

Moonglow said:


> IM2 said:
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> > For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
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Let's not get stupid.


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## Moonglow (Nov 6, 2017)

IM2 said:


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You brought it up first..


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## Kat (Nov 6, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
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> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
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Not one of us did what you named. Yes, there is racism, but it is on all sides.
So. What do you want? Do you want all the whites here to slit their wrists?

Do you want whites to feel guilt for something they have no control over? None of us chose what we were born.
So how does anyone blame another for that?

It's time to us all to get over the race thing. That seems to be all there is on this forum now days, and it's getting boring because it is nothing but repetition. Day in and day out, and it accomplishes nothing.

Do you ever try and discuss anything else?


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 6, 2017)

IM2 said:


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You know, I just noticed that you all have an actual race section here.  I always click on 'new posts' and I always see dozens of race based topics. Now I know why. Seems to be a hot topic here.

Anyway. Since I'm in the thread, I do want to say that racism is just an ugly form of collectivism. That's really the fundamenrtal truth of it.

I had read some thoughtful commentary on the  the topic of collectivism some time ago. What that person had accurately said about it was that it was the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist. The true antidote to racism is liberty.


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## Kat (Nov 6, 2017)

Natural Citizen said:


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Good point. Individual, and merely the HUMAN race. But many won't allow that.


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## IM2 (Nov 6, 2017)

Kat said:


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America was built on a group mentality.  We have constitutional articles deciding what groups represented Americans and who did not for purposes of taxation and representation.  So many whites need to go back and learn exactly how things have been done instead of opinions really not based in fact or in reality.

The opinion in the Dred Scott case was not that Dred Scott had  no rights Sanford was bound o respect. That would be the implementation of individualism. But the opinion was that blacks had no rights whites were bound to respect. Group rights. The opinion in Plessy v Ferguson did not state that separate facilities were equal for Plessy and for Ferguson, that would be individual rights, instead it was deemed tat separate facilities for blacks and whites as groups were equal. So let us stop lying to ourselves please.

It would have been real nice that if for the last 241 years whites had considered everyone part of the human race. But they didn't. So we must fix the damage that belief created before anything else can be done.


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## Two Thumbs (Nov 6, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
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> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
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If someone hates someone based on their skin, they are a racist.


your idiotic spin that blacks aren't racist is fucking ignorant and is one of the most ignorant things I wasted time reading in my life.


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## Kat (Nov 6, 2017)

IM2 said:


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You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Me? I am going to live my life..happy.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 7, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
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Don't think that's the ONLY message whites bring to Race discussions. There are appalling consequences of the cultural differences that have NOTHING to do with being inferior or stupid. I'd love to see trainloads of bright young black graduates going out to Silicon Valley or going into STEM fields or flooding the market with entrepreneurial ideas. But EDUCATION is failing them and they are failing to set education as a priority. 

The CULTURAL differences are a larger part of the racism than the pure neo-nazi inferiority thing. In trying so hard not to act "white" -- generations of blacks are choosing to STAY in failing cities that MISTREAT them and abuse them with incompetent and unresponsive legal systems of justice.* It APPEARS -- they believe they are not YET FREE.*. Because it's never occurred to them they can afford to live better and safer in the rest of very large America. And POSSIBLY they believe -- they would not be welcomed. OR -- that they would "lose their culture" by doing so..


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## flacaltenn (Nov 7, 2017)

IM2 said:


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So what part of America is more fixated on slicing and dicing individuals into GROUP identities for their POLITICAL convenience?  And why do Blacks OVERWHELMINGLY continue to vote for them? The politics that your group support is the most "group conscious" since the 3rd Reich. *FREE People are all about INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities and don't approach every issue by asking the taxonomy of any ones "group" identities. 
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Part of the race friction is that there's too much emphasis on "group identity" over individualism. That leads to some of those "cultural stereotypes" that I mentioned. Hollywood doesn't help you there. The Dem party doesn't help you there. In FACT -- most everything ABOUT stone cold "grouping" ENCOURAGES racism and bias.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 7, 2017)

Kat said:


> Good point. Individual, and merely the HUMAN race. But many won't allow that.



Yeah. I think so, too.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 7, 2017)

IM2 said:


> ...we must fix the damage that belief created before anything else can be done.



As it is, you're only adding gasoline to the fire.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 7, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> Part of the race friction is that there's too much emphasis on "group identity" over individualism. That leads to some of those "cultural stereotypes" that I mentioned. Hollywood doesn't help you there. The Dem party doesn't help you there. In FACT -- most everything ABOUT stone cold "grouping" ENCOURAGES racism and bias.



This^

flacaltenn wins the thread, okay, bye


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## IM2 (Nov 7, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
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> > For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
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It is the only message whites bring to race discussions. Look at the ignorant shit you have posed. Wrong on all counts.


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## IM2 (Nov 7, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


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Yeah and that's exactly what the republican party is dong while lying to the people, I'm grown, I see through your bullshit. This nation has never truly been about individual rights no more than it stood for the freedom of all men or that all men are created equal. Those are just words. The practice has never matched the rhetoric. Now stop lying to me about the republican party and discuss this issue.


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## IM2 (Nov 7, 2017)

Natural Citizen said:


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Then we'll just be some burning mother fuckers.


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## IM2 (Nov 7, 2017)

Kat said:


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The truth is what it is. I'm very happy. Because unlike you I don't run around in a state of psychosis, I am  healthy in every way. Physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. You are not. For if I adopted your lie and was the black sellout lawn jockey I'd be a very unhappy man.


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## Kat (Nov 7, 2017)

IM2 said:


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I would think I would be the better judge of whether I am happy or not. YOU are always posting angry. VERY angry,
Oh and.........bug off.


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## Taz (Nov 7, 2017)

There ARE differences. And blacks are trailing the pack. Not to say that they couldn't pull their pants up and catch up, they just don't seem to want to.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 7, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Then we'll just be some burning mother fuckers.



Well, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
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You know the deal. Its no different here. White racists continually post retarded threads proving they are inferior but you wont hear a peep from most of the mods.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 8, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
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## LOIE (Nov 15, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Only in the last 52 years have blacks been at least free from overt racist beliefs from whites. *52 YEARS!* Therefore to try making our experiences here the same and our responses to race and racism the same as whites is erroneous and this error is what needs to stop .


I was actually just thinking about this today - that it really hasn't been that long ago that men were fighting for their rights, marching and wearing signs that said, I AM A MAN. It's a shame that some folks had to be convinced that other folks share their humanity. It's also a shame that the sense of superiority in some remains pretty much unchanged even today -  regardless of changes made to laws written on paper.


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## Correll (Nov 15, 2017)

Delores Paulk said:


> IM2 said:
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40 years?  50? More?


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## IM2 (Nov 15, 2017)

Correll said:


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We need the same number of years whites have got to be free and able to do whatever they wanted.


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## IM2 (Nov 15, 2017)

Taz said:


> There ARE differences. And blacks are trailing the pack. Not to say that they couldn't pull their pants up and catch up, they just don't seem to want to.



Yeah right. Maybe we need to enact laws that make it so for 188 years whites don't get the same opportunities we do then let's see who is behind.


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## IM2 (Nov 15, 2017)

Kat said:


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No. You have got to be out of your mind to think that I don't have the right to be angry after reading this racist garbage from whites being posted here. Psychosis is the inability to deal with reality. Your post shows that same inability.


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## Kat (Nov 15, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Okie doke, angry man.


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## IM2 (Nov 15, 2017)

Kat said:


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Sure thing psycho woman.


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## Kat (Nov 15, 2017)

IM2 said:


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You wish. I just am not falling for your whines...........and you know what I mean. So just hush while you're ahead.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 15, 2017)

IM2 said:


> No. You have got to be out of your mind to think that I don't have the right to be angry after reading this racist garbage from whites being posted here. Psychosis is the inability to deal with reality. Your post shows that same inability.



Yes. You have a right to be angry whenever you're offended. What you _don't_ have a right to is having your feelings addressed by someone. "Dealing with reality" doesn't mean that people should be forced to listen to you complain. You're certainly free to make rules for yourself, but you are not free to enforce them on others. If you want to deal with whatever it is that you are offended by, then, go hold up a fukin sign some place. Personally, I'm of the view that having a 'race relations' subforum promotes racism. And, respectfully, the aggressive tenor in your communication here is a prime example of the phenomenon. Racism, as was said previuosly in the thread, is just a form of collectivism. That's all it is. Collectivism is the mindset that humans are viewed strictly as members of groups rather than Individuals. Racists are of the belief that all Individuals who share superficial physical characteristics such as color are alike. As collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist.

Anyway. If you're not specifically talking to me, could you please just leave me out of your commentary? I feel obligated to respond if I get a notification that you quoted me, even if you weren't actually talking to me.


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## IM2 (Nov 15, 2017)

Natural Citizen said:


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All you whites do is complain abut blacks and almost all of what is complained about is false. Your definition of racism is not it. And I get tired of whites trying to tell us what racism is while being racists themselves. You say nothing to whites about their racism and in fact you agree with it. So shut the hell up.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 15, 2017)

IM2 said:


> All you whites do is complain abut blacks and almost all of what is complained about is false. Your definition of racism is not it. And I get tired of whites trying to tell us what racism is while being racists themselves. You say nothing to whites about their racism and in fact you agree with it. So shut the hell up.



Oh, stop it, ya meanie.  You just have to ask yourself what you can do better. You Know?


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## Muhammed (Nov 15, 2017)

If blacks think slavery was so terrible then they should quit voting for the party of slavery.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Natural Citizen said:


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> > All you whites do is complain abut blacks and almost all of what is complained about is false. Your definition of racism is not it. And I get tired of whites trying to tell us what racism is while being racists themselves. You say nothing to whites about their racism and in fact you agree with it. So shut the hell up.
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No I don't have to ask that. I have to ask you can YOU do better. You know?


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> If blacks think slavery was so terrible then they should quit voting for the party of slavery.



_“The lily-white movement was an all-white faction of the __Republican Party__ in the Southern United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It battled and usually defeated the biracial element called the __Black-and-tan faction__._


_During __Reconstruction__, following the __U.S. Civil War__, black leaders in Texas and around the country gained increasing influence in the Republican Party by organizing blacks as an important voting bloc. Conservative whites attempted to eliminate this influence and recover white voters who had defected to the __Democratic Party__. The effort was largely successful in eliminating African-American influence in the Republican Party leading to black voters predominantly migrating to the Democratic Party for much of the 20th century._


_The term lily-white movement was coined by __Texas Republican__ leader __Norris Wright Cuney__, who used the term in an 1888 Republican convention to describe efforts by white conservatives to oust blacks from positions of Texas party leadership and incite riots to divide the party.__[1]__ The term came to be used nationally to describe this ongoing movement as it further developed in the early 20th century,__[2]__ including through the administration of __Herbert Hoover__. Localized movements began immediately after the war but by the beginning of the 20th century the effort had become national.”_


_ “This movement is largely credited with driving blacks out of the Republican party during the early 20th century, setting the stage for their eventual support of the Democrats.”_

*Michael K. Fauntroy - "**Republicans and the Black vote*"​


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 16, 2017)

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Well, I told you the solution. What more do ya want? Geez.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

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But  you didn't give  me the solution. I gave you the solution. Seriously.  I've probably done better than you. So your assumption about me having to ask myself that question is based upon a falsehood whites like you have been led to believe. It's apparent  that you need to do better than allow yourself to believe such falsehoods and straight out lies. Learn to think for yourself. So improve yourself.

You see, the problem with whites who think like you is that you want to give yourselves all the credit for building this nation and judge other based upon your perceptions. However if you have run a nation for 241 years and you created the laws and policies, you must also accept the damage created by your mistakes. Bit whites like you don't want to do this. You want to brag about how you built this nation all by yourselves but then when we see problems that have arisen or were ever corrected then suddenly you were not alone. The others are now part of this country so they can take the blame.

So you have to ask yourself why you refuse to take responsibility and then do better.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> But  you didn't give  me the solution.



Nyoo. Natty C Said: By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism.

So. The solution is simple. Stop doing that.



IM2 said:


> I gave you the solution.



No. You perpetuated the problem. You're still encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality. Therefore, your obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist.


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## Muhammed (Nov 16, 2017)

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That's no excuse to vote for the party of slavery.

The last time the Democrats imposed slavery on the American people was during the Vietnam war. Although people of all races were enslaved and sent overseas as cannon fodder, blacks were more likely to be drafted and once enslaved, more likely to be assigned to combat units and thus more likely than others to be injured, captured or killed.

Yet, stupidly, they still vote for the party of slavery.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Natural Citizen said:


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The nation was founded on and has maintained a group  mentality since at east July 4th , 1776. All you are doing here is trying to tell others to stop doing what you are going to continue to do.  I am not obsessed with anything nor is my saying I am black racist. Whites seem to think thy can make y up what racism is at anytime they want. You can't.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Muhammed said:


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You can stop trying to tell that lie. It's not working for you republicans.


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## Muhammed (Nov 16, 2017)

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It's not a lie. Look up the stats.


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## JQPublic1 (Nov 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
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Here is a  woman professional who has spent years proving what you just said is spot on!

*JANE ELLIOTT ON RACISM*

By Jenny Chhea, LDIR Intern

"Watching Oprah Winfrey’s show from 1992 that had a segment of Jane Elliot talking about race in America made me look at race at a whole new perspective again.

In this video, Jane Elliott – a white women – claims that she herself is racist because she was born and raised in a racial society. Explaining her experiment as a teacher to her students, she explains how in her blue-eye/brown-eye experiment to teach diversity training, brown eyed people are separated from blue eyed people and are treated as people of color. But treated in this perspective – unable to speak to the blue-eyed folks, unable to question any authority, and not allowed to play on the playground  – her students become angry, feeling shocked and oppressed by the experiment.

Jane Elliott further goes on to reveal to the audience other forms of how racism is institutionalized in our society. It is institutionalized in our education. “Brown eyed” people contribute to our society, but only in the education system are we taught about white contributions. Racism exists in the form of cartography – where in social science maps, the United States is in the center and Greenland is shown as a large island even bigger than South America. Band-Aid colors are based on the color of white flesh – not people of color. Peach color pantyhoes are sold as “nude” to represent the nude color of whites, not people of color. When in elementary school we try to color our skin in our drawings – we use a peach color to color our faces – not yellow, brown, or black.

By the fact that this is from 1992 shows that our struggles are still continuing. It is now 2013 and today we still face these problems of racism – even when people claim that our society is post racial." MORE:


For those interested in contacting  Ms. Elliot, this link addresses the details of her workshop.  It could be an eye opening experience for many of the  people here who apparently are too eager to dismiss their social conditioning As a figment of your imagination.
Jane Elliott's Blue Eyes/Brown Eyes Exercise - Workshops


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## JQPublic1 (Nov 16, 2017)

While professor Ellis's workshop is a compelling dramatization of casual factors contributing to racism in this country, it still falls short.
How so? Easy...!  it hasn't dawned upon her that using the term "white"  to describe  fair skinned humans carries the  inference of superiority over those  humans with skin tones darker than a paper bag. Even after using examples of "nude" colored pantyhose and "peach"  colored crayons to drive her point home... the apparition of whiteness lurks in the background and it seems destined to  stay there for a long time... At least until 2050  or so.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

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These excuses are invalid and we are posting in the race and racism section.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Muhammed said:


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It's a lie. That's why no blacks are joining  the  republican party.


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## Natural Citizen (Nov 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Whites seem to think thy can make y up what racism is at anytime they want.



Well. I've tried to be respectful in my communication with you. I believe my points were valid. But at this point my efforts appear to have been unfruitful and lent upon deaf or unaccepting ears. My only other sentiment would be to take your arbitrary victim status card and shove it up your ass.

Enjoy your morning.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Natural Citizen said:


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Your points were not valid, that's the problem. The only people here in this section with victim cards are you whining ass whites.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Nov 16, 2017)

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Then why create a stupid thread?

You are under the illusion that Blacks from Africa were the only mistreated people in the history of the world while those like me live in reality and understand racism and bigotry has happen to every culture around the world.

If course you do not care about the genocide of the Native Americans or the actual fact African Tribes sold Africans into slavery, but instead want to write that WHITES are the only racist population in the world.

What Amazes me is the White Population is the smallest population of the ethnic groups and yet have so much control of the world and that is what bothers you.

Now soon enough China will rise and the White Society will be gone and those like you will realize Whites were the least of your damn worries when it come to racism...

Oh  and Blacks owned Slaves here in America so learn that and Native Americans were also slaves and not just blacks...


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## JQPublic1 (Nov 16, 2017)

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They can't help themselves...that's what the social conditioning professor Ellis talks about does. And that social conditioning also affects people of color. You, and I can be counted among the  few notable exceptions...except... you still refer to  Euro-Americans as white....That's part of the conditioning that still  haunts even YOU!


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## cnm (Nov 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> We need the same number of years whites have got to be free and able to do whatever they wanted.


I was alive when apartheid was legal in the US. So it's within my lifetime that legal racial discrimination was practised there. The legacy of that is going to take a while to disperse, as seen by the attempts on this thread to pretend it never happened.


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## cnm (Nov 16, 2017)

This place is crawling with white conservative innocence.


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## cnm (Nov 16, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> If course you do not care about the genocide of the Native Americans or the actual fact African Tribes sold Africans into slavery, but instead want to write that WHITES are the only racist population in the world.


Oh, and white conservative victimhood, of course. How could I forget that?


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## Muhammed (Nov 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Look up the facts and you'll see that what I said is 100% correct.


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## JQPublic1 (Nov 16, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> Then why create a stupid thread?



Opening a debate on social issues is never stupid... More people should do it.



Bruce_T_Laney said:


> You are under the illusion that Blacks from Africa were the only mistreated people in the history of the world while those like me live in reality and understand racism and bigotry has happen to every culture around the world.



I haven't seen Im2 suggest that at all. This thread  isn't suggesting that so why do you  eagerly interject  it as a deflection.This op is addressing the racist climate here on USMB and you want to bring the whole continent of Africa into it. Shame on you...



Bruce_T_Laney said:


> If course you do not care about the genocide of the Native Americans or the actual fact African Tribes sold Africans into slavery, but instead want to write that WHITES are the only racist population in the world.



That was a long time ago and  fodder for a different thread. Try focusing on this one and stop jumping all over the place. But as long as people think they are 'white"  racism will persist. After all  the concept of race began with Europeans and  whiteness emanates form those not so  humble beginnings.



Bruce_T_Laney said:


> What Amazes me is the White Population is the smallest population of the ethnic groups and yet have so much control of the world and that is what bothers you.
> 
> Now soon enough China will rise and the White Society will be gone and those like you will realize Whites were the least of your damn worries when it come to racism...


Your population would have been much larger if you hadn't killed each other in such large numbers back in the 20th Century. Your homicide rate, on a world and historical scale, makes the Black Homey-cide rate look  pale  by comparison. 



Bruce_T_Laney said:


> Oh and Blacks owned Slaves here in America so learn that and Native Americans were also slaves and not just blacks...



Well...gee.. those black slave holders were probably two old codgers that  died a long time ago. But  two was enough for you and the Euro gang to document it and  use it for moments like this.


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## Asclepias (Nov 16, 2017)

Correll said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Thats less than the 400 year head start whites gave themselves while holding back Blacks and other people of color. If the favor was returned whites would fall into the dark ages again.


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## Asclepias (Nov 16, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> If blacks think slavery was so terrible then they should quit voting for the party of slavery.


Most Blacks dont vote repub.


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## Muhammed (Nov 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> > If blacks think slavery was so terrible then they should quit voting for the party of slavery.
> ...


In 1917 Woodrow Wilson (D) instituted slavery in the USA, violating the 13th amemendment. A disproportionate number of blacks were enslaved.

In 1940 FDR (D) reinstituted slavery.

In 1950 Harry Truman (D) reinstituted slavery and Dwight Eisenhower (R) ended slavery in 1953.

LBJ (D) Reinstituted slavery during the Vietnam war. Of course blacks were again disproportionately enslaved. Richard Nixon (R) ended it.

And Democrats have tried to reinstitute slavery on several occasions since then, however, they were always blocked by Republicans.

Face it, the Democratic party is the party of slavery.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Kat said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Kat said:
> ...



I'm not whining you just can't take the truth.


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## IM2 (Nov 16, 2017)

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



No we are not going to be talking about the history of the world. Not when I have read you and the rest talking about how you weren't here 150 years ago.

You don't know what I care about fool. And as usual you come forth with the standard white disingenuous claim  of African tribes just selling other Africans into slavery. You don't want to talk about how the white man would arm one tribe and then promise them money for the capture of their enemies now do you?

Learn that!

 I know what blacks owned here..

From:
*Did Black People Own Slaves?*
Henry Louis Gates Jr.

So what do the actual numbers of black slave owners and their slaves tell us? In 1830, the year most carefully studied by Carter G. Woodson, about 13.7 percent (319,599) of the black population was free. Of these, 3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves, out of a total of 2,009,043 slaves owned in the entire United States, so the numbers of slaves owned by black people over all was quite small by comparison with the number owned by white people. In his essay, _" '__The Known World' of Free Black Slaveholders__,"_ Thomas J. Pressly, using Woodson's statistics, calculated that 54 (or about 1 percent) of these black slave owners in 1830 owned between 20 and 84 slaves; 172 (about 4 percent) owned between 10 to 19 slaves; and 3,550 (about 94 percent) each owned between 1 and 9 slaves. Crucially, 42 percent owned just one slave.

Pressly also shows that the percentage of free black slave owners as the total number of free black heads of families was quite high in several states, namely 43 percent in South Carolina, 40 percent in Louisiana, 26 percent in Mississippi, 25 percent in Alabama and 20 percent in Georgia. So why did these free black people own these slaves?

It is reasonable to assume that the 42 percent of the free black slave owners who owned just one slave probably owned a family member to protect that person, as did many of the other black slave owners who owned only slightly larger numbers of slaves. As Woodson put it in 1924's _Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830_, "The census records show that the majority of the Negro owners of slaves were such from the point of view of philanthropy. In many instances the husband purchased the wife or vice versa … Slaves of Negroes were in some cases the children of a free father who had purchased his wife. If he did not thereafter emancipate the mother, as so many such husbands failed to do, his own children were born his slaves and were thus reported to the numerators."

Moreover, Woodson explains, "Benevolent Negroes often purchased slaves to make their lot easier by granting them their freedom for a nominal sum, or by permitting them to work it out on liberal terms." In other words, these black slave-owners, the clear majority, cleverly used the system of slavery to protect their loved ones.

Blacks owned 0.0064244518410009 percent of all slaves in he US by 1830. I already learned. You haven't. All you do is repeat the standard white denial line that blacks owned saves too. That's all you can say. Because that's the best you got. But it looks like 99.3 percent of all black slaves in America were owned by whites.

Plus, the fundamental problem with your argument is who made slavery legal? Learn that.

So understand this, when I talk about white racism, I am talking about what whites did to* ALL NON WHITES IN AMERICA FOR AS LONG AS AMERICA HAS BEEN A NATION!*


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## Asclepias (Nov 16, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> Asclepias said:
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Face it. all those guys would be repubs now.


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## Muhammed (Nov 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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That's just idiotic.


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## Asclepias (Nov 16, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> Asclepias said:
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I agree its idiotic but you and I both agree repubs are idiots so at least they are consistent right?


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## Muhammed (Nov 16, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Muhammed said:
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 Actually, it is idiotic for someone to claim that FDR would be a Republican today.


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## Asclepias (Nov 16, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> Asclepias said:
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> > Muhammed said:
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Actually is more idiotic to suggest that republicans are not idiots.


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## Death Angel (Nov 16, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Blacks did not choose to come here on the Mayflower


They choose to stay -- daily.  They have my permission to leave.


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## Asclepias (Nov 16, 2017)

Death Angel said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Blacks did not choose to come here on the Mayflower
> ...


Too late. We're vested and will stay just to give poverty stricken whites like yourself indigestion.


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## IM2 (Nov 17, 2017)

Death Angel said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Blacks did not choose to come here on the Mayflower
> ...



I was born here. I am an American. I don't have to go anywhere.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Nov 17, 2017)

IM2 said:


> America was built on a group mentality.  We have constitutional articles deciding what groups represented Americans and who did not for purposes of taxation and representation.  So many whites need to go back and learn exactly how things have been done instead of opinions really not based in fact or in reality.
> 
> The opinion in the Dred Scott case was not that Dred Scott had  no rights Sanford was bound o respect. That would be the implementation of individualism. But the opinion was that blacks had no rights whites were bound to respect. Group rights. The opinion in Plessy v Ferguson did not state that separate facilities were equal for Plessy and for Ferguson, that would be individual rights, instead it was deemed tat separate facilities for blacks and whites as groups were equal. So let us stop lying to ourselves please.
> 
> It would have been real nice that if for the last 241 years whites had considered everyone part of the human race. But they didn't. So we must fix the damage that belief created before anything else can be done.



EVERY white person who ever marched hand in hand with blacks for their equal rights and we're talking a VERY LARGE NUMBER, should take note of your thoughtfulness and gratitude..


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## IM2 (Nov 17, 2017)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > America was built on a group mentality.  We have constitutional articles deciding what groups represented Americans and who did not for purposes of taxation and representation.  So many whites need to go back and learn exactly how things have been done instead of opinions really not based in fact or in reality.
> ...



I think that you really should not try that one with me. The number of whites  marching with blacks were not near the number of blacks marching and in fact they were a minority of whites. There would have been no whites marching had blacks not started to fight. So I do not owe whites any gratitude for standing to correct a wrong they created. .


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...




My "head start" consisted solely of a good upbringing in a stable two parent home. 

And nothing is stopping blacks and other people of color from doing that for their children today, or a generation ago, their parent(s).


That's on you and yours.


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

Where should a white person post a serious question about rascism on this Board?


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
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No that's not what your head start consisted of. I grew up in a very stable 2 parent home. Apparently better than yours since you've been taught some really stupid racist crap.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> Where should a white person post a serious question about rascism on this Board?



Are whites really wanting to ask serious questions about racism or are they going to keep trying to tell us non whites how we are more racist? Are whites really ready to examine the damage and advantages they have gained from racist policies of the past and now or are they going to continue to pretend it never happened?


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Where should a white person post a serious question about rascism on this Board?
> ...



Compared to both you, and Ascelpias, I am new on the subject. Posters like yourself and Essen, (I may miss some) may consider this "silly". My serious question concerns George Washington Carver, rascism I saw 15-17 years and revisited after reading Ascelpias posts. My childish disgust concerning James Baldwin not receiving a Nobel Prize means little. He was in the dustbin by virtue of sexual orientation before I knew where he died. I may not have known his race, knew only a far 'right' book purchased at a yard sale advised "DO NOT READ". So I had to read his works, Carver and impacts science, society, race and the future.

Yes, my view of racism cannot encompass more than experience, I saw, and still see it, but the incisive views remain with those who suffered from it. (Edited to relect a response to IM2, not Essen. Writing that requires thought can impact sender name.)


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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I've challenged you in the past to support your accusations of racism. You pussied out like the bitch you are.


SO, I'll just laugh at you for that, first of all.











My head start was a good upbringing. That's it.


My child will likely have that, and a significant inheritance. Which is my choice to give. So fuck off all you commies that have a problem with that.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Where should a white person post a serious question about rascism on this Board?
> ...





You aren't white. YOu don't know what my life has been like. And you can't know. Poopy head.



How do you like that game now?


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> IM2 said:
> 
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> > Peach said:
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Except G.W. Carver was not the first or only black who has impacted science. I ask what I do because this is what I have seen from whites in 20 years of trying to discuss the impact of racism, racist policy and laws to include slavery, upon blacks and other non white people. I think we must study past policies, recognize the impact hey had, realize he damage they created, understand how long they were in effect, then recognize how long it took before the changes made to such laws or policy were actually followed. Instead we get the "I was not there" excuse and that's not good enough. So to me these are the serious questions whites need to ask or discuss.


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
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> > Peach said:
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Its in the books. Slavery occurred, not just "there", here. The 14th Amendment is still not enforced. *Think about what has never been known because of racism, or imagine Americans dying because of a segregated military. *The nation cannot "turn back", and learning more about black contributions proves  the destruction that awaits if attempted.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
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Well since I was raised in white culture taught white philosophy, law, religion etc, and have had to navigate my way through white dominated fields to get jobs, I can say that your comment is an example of your idiocy.


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Peach said:
> 
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> > IM2 said:
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No, I reference GREATEST AMERICAN SCIENTIST. I am beginning to see history has been denied to me, only I can scratch for it now.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 18, 2017)

Yes, blacks can be racist just as whites can be racist.

This is a silly OP.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
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> > Correll said:
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You've been shown plenty of examples of your racism. Your whiteness was your head start. And that's it.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> IM2 said:
> 
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> > Peach said:
> ...



I won't go that far because we have had people who have done more than Carver. He was no doubt a great scientist, but he did not perform the first open heart surgery. He did not create blood  plasma, he did not create a way  to fix cataracts. I can keep going. I understand where you are coming from. I am just more interested in discussing how laws and policies created the issues we have now. I respect you for what you are doing, we just have different interests in this regard.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
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What in the world are you talking about?


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
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> > IM2 said:
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Your lies are noted and dismissed.


My whiteness gave me nothing. YOu don't know. YOu ain't got white skin. You CAN'T understand.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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Laws and policies made show me different. I do know. I do understand.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> Peach said:
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If you don't know, shut up.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




You've made it clear that you don' believe that study or learning can lead to understanding what it is to be another color, so don't even try that game.

You're black, by your own rules, understanding what it is to be white, is not something you can do.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...




He or she was trying to say something TO ME, so why don't you be the one to shut up.


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

JakeStarkey said:


> Yes, blacks can be racist just as whites can be racist.
> 
> This is a silly OP.



Lots more background for white people to latch onto, hundreds of years. Why would Black Americans not be racist?  Reading about Nat Turner's violence and anger forced me to remind myself, and look up slave punishments: backs broken, babies tossed with pitchforks, skin flayed..........all on a regular basis to  PROPERTY. Yes, many whites were against it........but when did it end? Only with war, and hundreds of thousands dead. Notes of a Native Son, The Fire Next Time, the entire Harlem Reanissance is not enough.


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## LOIE (Nov 18, 2017)

BasicHumanUnit said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > America was built on a group mentality.  We have constitutional articles deciding what groups represented Americans and who did not for purposes of taxation and representation.  So many whites need to go back and learn exactly how things have been done instead of opinions really not based in fact or in reality.
> ...


But if we have done or are doing it for gratitude, then our motives may not be so  pure.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, blacks can be racist just as whites can be racist.
> ...





Hundreds of thousands of dead whites. They died so you could be free. 


Why would Black America not be racist? There is a couple hundred thousands of reasons right there.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...





Which is what motivated the anti-slavery people like Lincoln to fight such a bloody war.

Does that count for anything in your world?


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Millions of dead blacks who really died so I could be free.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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Here we go with this shit again. Lincoln didn't give a damn about blacks..


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...




Nope. THeir deaths were part of the system and contributed nothing towards ending it.

That was white people fighting, the United States army, that freed your ancestors.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
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> > Correll said:
> ...



No.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
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> > Peach said:
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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...





Then saying something that doesn't embarrass you with your stupidity.


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

Why do history texts need to be cited? Thousands of blacks fought in the Civil war, many in the Revolutionary War, (seperate regiments), and millions: WWII, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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Wrong.






Blacks died fighting for freedom from day 1 long before the civil war. So stop lying to yourself.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



You are the only one here embarrassing yourself bigot.


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## ClosedCaption (Nov 18, 2017)

Kat said:


> Not one of us did what you named. Yes, there is racism, but it is on all sides.



Like the OP said there are levels to this.  You can't say Tommy with a Magnifying glass killing ants is the same as McVeigh because both killed living things. 

Be less stupid


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
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He wasn't tanking about the small percentage of union, (or confederate) troops that were black. He was talking about slaves. 


The deaths of slaves though the normal course of slavery, did not contribute to the end of slavery, other than in the pity it stirred in the hearts of whites.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
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> 
> > IM2 said:
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And you know that you are lying.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
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Yep. Like many (all?) politicians he said different things to different people, depending on political reasons.


SO what do you do then?


Look at his actions to see which he really meant.


What were his actions?


Grinding the South to powder and freeing the slaves.


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

Black troops were inadequately fed, clothed and housed, subject to constant racial insults that could lead to death. All available history.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> Black troops were inadequately fed, clothed and housed, subject to constant racial insults that could lead to death. All available history.





Which means what exactly? How does that detract from those white people that died for your freedom?


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## Cossack1483 (Nov 18, 2017)

I thought many were offered return trips to Iberia.  Many writings show negro exit strategies were discussed.


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## Cossack1483 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Black troops were inadequately fed, clothed and housed, subject to constant racial insults that could lead to death. All available history.
> ...



Sad.  The ultimate fail of slavery


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## Peach (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Black troops were inadequately fed, clothed and housed, subject to constant racial insults that could lead to death. All available history.
> ...



Its history, and mine is tainted(.) "Those who do not remember the past......." Black Americans were given the freedom to *die*......


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## Cossack1483 (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...



Sounds like time to make africa great again


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
> 
> ...



*We were bought here on ships like the Amistad then sold into lifetime bondage because of that belief.
*
We?
Just how old are you?


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

Peach said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Peach said:
> ...





I bet if you asked them, they would say they were given the freedom to fight for the freedom of their people.


I would not belittle them or their sacrifice by calling them victims.


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## Cossack1483 (Nov 18, 2017)

old enough to make africa great again


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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Yes it did. Just get that lie out of your head asswipe, that whites died to make us free while we did nothing. The whites fighting in the civil war weren't even fighting to free slaves n the first place. That is not what they were told.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
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Nah. I know that you are trying to pawn off make believe history that makes loser whites like you feel good about yourselves.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
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You were slaves. You did not have the opportunity to do very much. It is in the nature of slavery.


The northern whites elected a president knowing that he was a rabid anti-slavery guy, and that south would be very unhappy about that.


THey fought knowing that if not for the slavery issue, the fight would likely not be happening.


The end result was America as it was, but without slavery. And a much poorer south.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
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Nope. YOu know that's a lie too.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
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His action was done to save the union. Because when you read the EP, he never freed any slaves but those in the confederacy and they were not part of the US.


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## Correll (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
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If he had resigned, and let his vp have the office, the war would never have happened, now would it?


Hell, if he had not run, there would have been no threat to the union.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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We were slaves but we fought slavery. And died doing so. We fought slavery from he beginning of it.

Your imaginary version of history just is not so.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
> 
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> > Correll said:
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Your imaginary version of history is just not so.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Correll said:


> IM2 said:
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> > Correll said:
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Apparently it is not.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> ...



Old enough to say we were bought over here on ships just like you whites say we were freed from Britain.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



*We were slaves but we fought slavery.
*
You were never a slave. Not even for a moment.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


*
Old enough to say we were bought over here on ships just like you
*
You weren't brought here on a ship. Neither was I.


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## IM2 (Nov 18, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
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We were bought here on ships. And this attempt to derail with this common stupidity just isn't going to get you anywhere.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 18, 2017)

IM2 said:


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*
We were bought here on ships
*
Bullshit.

You were born here.
I was born here.

Do you ever stop whining?


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## Correll (Nov 19, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Totally, and you know it.


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## Correll (Nov 19, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Any long lasting system of slavery is all about dealing with the resistance of people who don't want to work for nothing.



That's more than "part of slavery", that's what slavery IS.


The failed resistance of a slave here or there, or a few that managed to run away is not what ended slavery.


It was these guys.


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## Correll (Nov 19, 2017)

IM2 said:


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You quote from Lincoln said all he wanted was to save the union. 


The easiest way to do that would have been to give the southern states what they wanted. 


If they don't rebel, the union is fine.


Instead, he just happened to find that the best way to save the union was to end slavery and crush the South.


You judge a politician by what he does, not what he says.


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## IM2 (Nov 19, 2017)

Correll said:


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Too bad that's not so.


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## Correll (Nov 19, 2017)

IM2 said:


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The Union army did not win the Civil War and end slavery in the United States?


Tell me some more about how educated you are! LOL!!!


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## IM2 (Nov 19, 2017)

Correll said:


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The war was not fought over slavery. We've been over that The OP here is not about slavery.

It is about the different experiences we have had and how it is called racism  by  those like you.


Correll said:


> IM2 said:
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The war was not fought to end slavery. We've been over that.

The OP is not about the civil war.


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## Correll (Nov 19, 2017)

IM2 said:


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True, it wast was mostly nationalism on both sides.


But slavery was the primary cause and the end result was Emancipation.


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## IM2 (Nov 19, 2017)

Correll said:


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We have discussed this and you can believe what you want, but there is no Santa Claus just  like the civil war was not fought for slavery.


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2017)

Correll said:


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Wrong. I grew up in a stable two parent. Somehow the whites that owned the opportunities for jobs still discriminated against me because I was Black. The only thing whites need to do is not be lazy. With Black people you have to fight every inch of the way and be obviously 10x better than all the whites.


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2017)

Peach said:


> Where should a white person post a serious question about rascism on this Board?


When you say "ask a question" do you mean "tell you Blacks what you are doing wrong"?  The reason I ask is because when most whites ask me a question online its normally just a ruse to play the blame game.


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## Correll (Nov 22, 2017)

Asclepias said:


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I hope your giving your children the same "Privilege".


My point stands. 


My "head start" consisted solely of a good upbringing in a stable two parent home.

And nothing is stopping blacks and other people of color from doing that for their children today, or a generation ago, their parent(s).


That's on you and yours.


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## Peach (Nov 22, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Peach said:
> 
> 
> > Where should a white person post a serious question about rascism on this Board?
> ...



The question was about Carver, I saw the responses. Mostly, denigrating the Greatest Scientist this country ever produced.


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## K9Buck (Nov 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


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And what do you want us white folks to do about it?


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## IM2 (Nov 22, 2017)

K9Buck said:


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Grow up, stop making excuses, quit lying about how you are being discriminated against, admit you have benefited from white racism and change.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


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I benefit from not being a whiney black guy.

How has being a whiney black guy worked out for you?


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## IM2 (Nov 22, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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You're a whiney white guy.  As for your question, I don't know because I don't whine.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Pointing at you and laughing isn't whining.

And every thread you're on is nothing but non-stop whining from you.


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## IM2 (Nov 22, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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I don't whine. But  you do.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Waahhh....whites are racist......waahhhhh.....I came here on a ship as a slave........waaahhhhh.


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## K9Buck (Nov 22, 2017)

IM2 said:


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LOL.  That's what I thought.  Thanks for the laugh.


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## Taz (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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> > There ARE differences. And blacks are trailing the pack. Not to say that they couldn't pull their pants up and catch up, they just don't seem to want to.
> ...


Blacks tried to build a society called Africa but it's a total failure. You should thank your lucky stars that whites let you ungrateful bunch live in our society.


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Can't win a debate just troll ad you'll fond some else white here to join you.


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

K9Buck said:


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Like I said....


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

Taz said:


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Africa is a continent that has 54 different countries on it.  It was ding quite fine until whites decided they had rights to the continent. There is nothing to thank.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Whiteys are ganging up on me......waah.....


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Which African nations are in good shape today?


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## Taz (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


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If you're not in Africa then you should thank the white man for letting you stay here in our white supremacist society, as you would call it. And if you're so unhappy here, why don't you go back to Africa.


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

Taz said:


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No, I don't have to thank the white man for a damn thing. You thank the white man for allowing you to stay here without becoming a serf.


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## LOIE (Nov 26, 2017)

Taz said:


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Do you honestly believe these two things you said?


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

Delores Paulk said:


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Seems like he does. He has repeated this over and over.

But of course he's not a racist.


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## bgrouse (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites,


That sort of racism doesn't exist (well, unless you run into a total shut-in who has never seen or read about negroes who happens to be racist). White racism is based on statistical observation of negroes in America, Europe, and Africa. There are also personal observations, like my observation of your stupid posts where you blame whites for Mugabe's actions, flip-flop on per capita statistics, etc...


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> ...



Actually it does and you practice it. .White racism is not based on anything but a bunch of opinions from retarded whites losers.


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## emilynghiem (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
> 
> ...



Dear IM2 
I am friends with a community leader in Freedmen's Town
who defines racism based on whites having all the power and greater privilege
so that all racism is spelled out from THAT perspective.

The majority of people I know understand racism
more generally to mean ANY prejudice that causes
people to project or discriminate "by association"
with either color, ethnicity, race, or culture that
has been "run together" so that even "discrimination
against Mexicans or Palestinians" is called RACIST.

You made it clear that PREJUDICE is not what you mean
when you are trying to address white racism against blacks
and other minorities as an extension of that.

IM2 these are NOT all the same.
And neither are the people.

You yourself keep trying to blame others "for all doing the same thing"
and trying to "tell others to think and do things THEIR way."

but you also come across the same way
trying to define and impose YOUR perspective on racism
which may not be the way other people approach it or see it.

"we are not all going to see things the same way"

The number one advice I can give you and support you on
is to differentiate your way from other people and not try to make
everyone see it your way either.

If you do that, make that distinction and accept those differences,
you will do MORE to encourage and influence OTHERS
to see your way is different from theirs, and accept that also!!!

Please do not fall further in the trap of mutual resentment
over all people pushing their way. Of course people are
going to defend their positions and perspective, 
as you do as well. That's going to happen.

Please do not attack this, but work with it.

You will do more to overcome biases and prejudices
and FEAR of being overrun by other people's ways.

If you want people to differentiate,
keep doing the same. Don't run everyone else
together as the enemy either. We all have the
right to our own views and take responsibility for them.


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## abu afak (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


> ...
> Blacks did not choose to come here on the Mayflower with a belief they were superior and more civilized than everyone else. We were bought here on ships like the Amistad then sold into lifetime bondage because of that belief. ... *52 years*Therefore to try making our experiences here the same and our responses to race and racism the same as whites is erroneous and this error is what needs to stop .


MOST American Whites - and ASIANS - didn't come here on the Mayflower either. Irish, Italian, Jews, Russians, etc, came here Broke-ass and Discriminated against.
Many signs up into the 60's said "No Blacks OR Jews".

Many Asians in fact, came here as indentured Railway labor just as blacks were being freed from slavery.

Then we Interned the Japanese as late WWII, and they lost everything. We Nuked their resourceLess Seismic Rock, and killed a good portion of their male population.
YET NE Asians HERE surpass us in Average IQ and Income, and Japan was the #2 economy within "50 years" of losing WWII.
Domestically, Jews yet a bit higher.
Discrimination does NOT explain this.

It's IQ.
It's Genetic.
Reality Check:
That's the reason the country And World looks the way it does.
It's that simple.

Before Colonialization Marco Polo found, Silk, Porcelain, Gunpowder, a Civil Service system, and Astronomical records in China/Japan.
In sub-Saharan Africa, just the same hunter-gatherer man had been 100,000 years ago before migrants who left had Evolved above their ancestral populations. No written language, no wheel.

Were it not for 'Whites', in fact, sub-Saharan Africa would be the same as it was those milennia ago... even today. Half the continent Wiped out by AIDS or Ebola without White medicine, and many still live in huts. Sub-Sahara still an un-self-governable rabble.

It's that simple/predictable.
The world only makes sense knowing/acknowledging this fact, rather than 10,000 rationalizations.
`


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## bgrouse (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
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Crime statistics aren't opinions, idiot.


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> ...



I don't resent anyone. There are some facts that are central to this discussion. Blacks and whites have had different experiences in America. That is a fact and no matte how many people want to male things the same, they were and are not.

You cannot name one law or policy enacted by blacks that was done to purposefully deny whites of  opportunities. I'm not trying to make anyone see anything. But just as you can say he sun rises in the daytime, and that is a fact, there have been laws and policies enacted by whites one on purpose to deny people of color of opportunity. This went on for at least 188 years by written law and for whites think that we all should just forget and ignore what happens or those who are angry about it are racists is just a willful refusal to accept responsibility for the damage created by the racism whites have caused.

I'm listening to what people say, but really there are no two sides to listen to. Whites in America have treated people of color wrongly. It is documented in our courthouses, state law books, museums and almost every other record keeping facility.

You see whites are always telling us how we should do things. How we shouldn't be resentful for what they have done to us. The thing is if anything happens to whites they do all the tings they tell us we should not do.  Look at what you read in this forum. Yet we are to speak nicely and not to lump all whites into a group while they do it every day. We are not to show resentment, yet they have made up an untrue tale about how they are being discriminated against because they resent us getting equal opportunity.


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

abu afak said:


> IM2 said:
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Yeah and so what happened to blacks after they were freed from slavery? The rest of what you say isn't worth me wasting my time. It's the same old tired lie


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
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And crime statistics show that whites commit the most crimes.


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## bgrouse (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


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They show blacks commit *violent crimes* at *a higher rate* than whites. Like I told you before, if 100/100 blacks are violent criminals and 200 out of 2,000,000 whites are violent criminals (in a country with a population of 2,000,000 whites and 100 blacks), is the average white more violent than the average black?


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## bgrouse (Nov 26, 2017)

IM2 said:


> abu afak said:
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Whatever happened must have still been better than what happened to them or their ancestors in Africa given that they decided to stay and still stay to this day.


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## abu afak (Nov 26, 2017)

abu afak last post

*"MOST American Whites - and ASIANS - didn't come here on the "Mayflower" either.* Irish, Italians, Jews, Russians, etc, came here Broke-ass and Discriminated against.
Many signs up into the 60's said "No Blacks OR Jews".

Many Asians in fact, came here as indentured Railway labor just as blacks were being freed from slavery.

Then we Interned the Japanese as late WWII, and they lost everything. We Nuked their resourceLess Seismic Rock, and killed a good portion of their male population.
YET NE Asians HERE surpass us in Average IQ and Income, and Japan was the #2 economy within "50 years" of losing WWII.
Domestically, Jews yet a bit higher.
Discrimination does NOT explain this.

It's IQ.
It's Genetic.
Reality Check:
That's the reason the country And World looks the way it does.
It's that simple.

*Before Colonialization** Marco Polo found, Silk, Porcelain, Gunpowder, a Civil Service system, and Astronomical records in China/Japan.
In sub-Saharan Africa, just the same hunter-gatherer man had been 100,000 years ago before migrants who left had Evolved above their ancestral populations. No written language, no wheel.*

*Were it not for 'Whites', in fact, sub-Saharan Africa would be the same as it was those milennia ago... even today. Half the continent Wiped out by AIDS or Ebola without White medicine, and many still live in huts. Sub-Sahara still an un-self-governable rabble.*

It's that simple/predictable.
The world only makes sense knowing/acknowledging this fact, rather than 10,000 rationalizations/excuses."​End abu afak last post



			
				IM2 said:
			
		

> Yeah and so what happened to blacks after they were freed from slavery? The rest of what you say isn't worth me wasting my time. It's the same old tired lie



What a DISHONEST TOTAL COP OUT.
NO Answer.
Just want everyone to see your Non-responsive WHIFF again.
*The World looks the way it does because of...
IQ.

NE Asians - 106
White/Euro - 100
USA 'Black' - 85 (avg 25% white, 75% sub-Saharan)
sub-Saharan - 70.

That's all you gotta know.
And that's the way the world looked BEFORE SLAVERY/colonialization and still does.*
As I pointed out.
`


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## flacaltenn (Nov 26, 2017)

Delores Paulk said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
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I think that if you push people to ACCEPT grand fairytales of African successes, and constantly make excuses to wipe out the INTERNAL problems that black Americans face by BLAMING WHITES AS A GROUP -- that's what you get back.

It's much the same backlash that Obama got to his collectivist "You didn't build that"..  When you point fingers -- you get them pointed back at you. (See my Avie pic for a demonstration.) And then NORMAL reasoned dialogue becomes impossible.


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## IM2 (Nov 26, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> Delores Paulk said:
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If I was pushing a fairy tale then what you say would have credence. You have been shown the truth and quite frankly I don't give a good goobly damn what you and the rest if these retards come back with. All you are going to get are more historically documented  facts and peer reviewed studies. Things you are to scared to read because you don't want to leave the slavery you live in on your conservative right wing plantation. So eventually after not reading he facts and making silly mindless comments you'll just close the thread because you know you are incapable of debating the facts.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

abu afak said:


> abu afak last post
> 
> *MOST American Whites - and ASIANS - didn't come here on the "Mayflower" either.* Irish, Italians, Jews, Russians, etc, came here Broke-ass and Discriminated against.
> Many signs up into the 60's said "No Blacks OR Jews".
> ...



Nah that's not all I gotta know.

Japanese got reparations.  $20,000 each during Reagan.

*In 1988, President Reagan signed the Civil Liberties Act to compensate more than 100,000 people of Japanese descent who were incarcerated in internment camps during World War II. The legislation offered a formal apology and paid out $20,000 in compensation to each surviving victim. The law won congressional approval only after a decade-long campaign by the Japanese-American community.*

From Wrong To Right: A U.S. Apology For Japanese Internment

Japan got US AID after the war to rebuild.

*In September, 1945, General Douglas MacArthur took charge of the Supreme Command of Allied Powers (SCAP) and began the work of rebuilding Japan. Although Great Britain, the Soviet Union, and the Republic of China had an advisory role as part of an “Allied Council,” MacArthur had the final authority to make all decisions. The occupation of Japan can be divided into three phases: the initial effort to punish and reform Japan, the work to revive the Japanese economy, and the conclusion of a formal peace treaty and alliance.*

Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian

*During the Cold War, strategic interests led the U.S. to allow Japan to export to the US while protecting its domestic market, enabling the formation of cartels and non-market driven factors in Japanese economy, and the development of an asymmetrical trade relationship with the U.S.  The export-driven economy that Japan consequently developed also benefited enormously from an international market of low tariffs (by joining the GATT, forerunner of WTO), low prices of oil and other raw materials needed for industrial development. 

Because Article 9 of the Japanese constitution forbids Japan from rearmament, Japan has lived under the umbrella of U.S. military protection, spending only 1 per cent of their GNP on the military's defensive abilities (which is a huge sum of money as the Japanese economy grew to be the second largest in the world), which, percentage wise, helped save the Japanese much money if they were militarily on their own.*

_*2. The welfare society in Japan*_

*In Japan, a welfare society rather than welfare state exists, characterized by total employment, including cartels of small and medium sized companies to prevent them from bankruptcy in order to maintain total employment. 
The welfare society and total employment enabled the Japanese state to devote much of the money it would have spent on welfare to industrial development, in the form of bank loans.

The birth of the welfare society:

During the American occupation:1946-49, Japanese economy was sustained by $500 million annually from the US.  Despite this help, because of wartime devastation, Japanese economy was in shambles.

In reaction, the American occupational forces invited the Detroit banker Dodge to balance Japanese economy, who introduced the Dodge Plan (1949): balance budget, reduce inflation, repay Japanese government debts. Fix exchange rate ($1=360 yen). (compared with $1=110 yen today)

That this exchange rate made Japanese yen too expensive shows the high inflation going on in Japan before 1949. 

Reaction to the Dodge Plan: massive laying off of workers and economic recession, because Japanese goods became less competitive in the international market (too expensive) (Dodge hoped that after the initial pain, Japanese economy would start steady development later on).

In reaction: state bank loans to private companies to prevent them from bankruptcy. In the 1950s, major concern of Japanese economy was capital accumulation and export promotion; also medium sized companies protested against tax increases.  These concerns prevented the formation of a welfare state because that would require tax increases.  Instead, the state promoted a welfare society through legislation.  The welfare society, through maintaining near total employment via liberal government loans to private companies, dispensed with the need for unemployment benefits.  Retirement pensions came largely from personal savings and company compensation, rather than benefits from the state.

The welfare society saved Japanese government much money, which was liberally loaned to companies and guaranteed a secure supply of funding to many companies, leading some to competition and technological innovation. (but it also prevented some companies from upgrading themselves because of guaranteed funding, so it was a two sided story). 

Under the welfare society, limited unemployment benefits do exist, but they are provided by the private companies. The unemployment insurance premiums are borne by workers and employers on a fifty-fifty basis. The government pays only a partial sum of the management and operation costs--14 percent of the cost for unemployment insurance and the other services concerning unemployment is covered directly out of the national treasury account. The wage withholding is, in principle, set at 1.1 percent of the total annual salary. However, the actual rate of contribution to these schemes was lowered to 0.9 percent in fiscal 1992, and has been at 0.8 percent since fiscal 1993. Unemployment benefits were 60 percent to 80 percent of the wage before becoming unemployed for a period of 90 to 300 days, which was extended to 330 days after 2001. Conditions vary depending on age and length of time contributing to the system. The larger private companies were also responsible for subsidized housing, health benefits, retirement pension and other benefits for recreational activities in a package called lifetime employment, practiced after 1960. All these, naturally add to the cost of big corporations, which then pass the cost on to the consumers in the form of higher prices.*

Japanese economic takeoff after 1945

So did Europe.

*World War II devastated Western Europe, inflicting a staggering death toll on combatants and civilians, and destroying homes, buildings, factories and key 

At the time, leaders in Washington understood that the United States had a powerful strategic interest in helping Western Europe to recover and stand on its own. As Secretary of State George C. Marshall **said** on June 5, 1947: “Our policy is directed not against any country or doctrine but against hunger, poverty, desperation and chaos. Its purpose should be the revival of a working economy in the world so as to permit the emergence of political and social conditions in which free institutions can exist.” 

That’s why the United States worked to rebuild post-war Europe, **investing** $22 billion — or roughly $182 billion in real 21st-century dollars adjusted for inflation — in economic foreign assistance across 16 war-torn nations from 1946 to 1952. To be sure, America’s post-war commitment to Western Europe demonstrated our nation’s character. Yet it also advanced our economic interests. America’s $182 billion in economic foreign assistance to Europe amounts to far less than the more than $250 billion in goods that the United States **now annually exports** to those countries*.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...06/the-lessons-from-us-aid-after-world-war-ii

Africa was still colonized and blacks still in apartheid here.

So yes, it was discrimination. IQ had nothing to do with it.

Learn the truth.

And that's what you gotta know.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> All you are going to get are more historically documented facts and peer reviewed studies.



That's not what I've gotten and seen. The whole deal about carbon tempered steel being a gift from Africa to the rest of the world was based on a few obscure links to articles printing in 70s by a pair of researchers. The SAME research was then peer reviewed and forced those authors to RETRACT many of their claims. That's a fact I just gave you. 

And as for your "diversity trainer" tool, *peer review on OPINION PIECES means nothing.* Jack shit from an academic standpoint if the peer review is done by OTHERS in the "Big Diversity" business for a living. The OP is all asserted opinions. It is NOT a scientific article. I've authored dozens of scientific peer reviewed papers and OPINIONS are not welcomed in a TRUE scientific study..


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## flacaltenn (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Things you are to scared to read because you don't want to leave the slavery you live in on your conservative right wing plantation



Yoda says the stereotyping force is strong within you..  

Let's get this straight. I am NOT a "right-winger" STEEEERIKE ONE. I can out liberal you on a lot of issues. My political life has been to work for ballot and debate access for Independents and 3rd parties. And I'm 20 year WORKING member of the Libertarian Party. The one that nominated an openly GAY man for Prez in the 70s because he was the "right one for the job".. .

STEERIKE TWO.  I'm NEVER afraid to read anything that might conflict with my highly polished and very strong  political compass. I HAVE THAT leisure to ponder issues without a STRICT REGIMEN of political conformity like MOST americans who just can't get past the two old and decrepit, inept, arrogant and corrupt 2 party system..

Here comes the next pitch. Better hope it's out of the strike zone...


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...


*Too *scared to read?







It's more a matter of doesn't *want *to read because it's probably wrong, irrelevant, or a combination thereof. He probably noticed a habit you have of copying and pasting voluminous amounts of information without reading it (beyond the title/first sentence) and when questioned about it, you refuse to discuss it. So why should he bother? He might make a great, concise, thoughtful point and you'll come back with 10 posts of irrelevant copying and pasting/linking that you didn't even read. And you expect him to read all of it and respond intelligently? Why? So you can ignore what he wrote and post 10 more links that don't prove anything in your argument? Nobody is going to dedicate unlimited patience in order to deal with you when you're too stupid and lazy to so much as suggest that you are capable of critical thought.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
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> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



That TED talk about Africa he posted comes to mind. I watch it. IM2 didn't or didn't understand it. Because the guy was blaming Africa's troubles on corrupt incompetent leadership which is exactly what I was saying as IM2 is sitting there trying to defend Mugabe and his corrupt dictatorship.

And then you have this OP. Which is an opinion piece, not a research article, that IM2 BELIEVES is peer reviewed academics that MEANS anything. And just continually tells folks -- they're scared. And wrong.

Well I guess if I was SCARED -- it's better than being brainwashed.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
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> > flacaltenn said:
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I read what I post. I've proven my arguments. You are the one who can't.  You never do.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> bgrouse said:
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> > IM2 said:
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This thread is not about Africa. It does not have the videos in it. The OP in this thread was me posting an opinion. Nothing here is about so called fairy tales about Africa, you have posted at least 2 posts that are not subject matter. Yet you demand that of others and will close threads.  You are here trolling threads and yet you will close others and delete posts in them for the same off topic content you have posted here.

Every one of your posts no  matter where you post in this section stink with white supremacy. And here you have encouraged a troll to continue doing so.

You talk about blacks choosing not to be white so they just stay in supposedly failing and unsafe cities on purpose. Do you know how stupid that sounds? .Yet you can't see how this comment can be called racist or evidence of a belief in white supremacy. Blacks are failing because they don't want to act white. If that's not obvious white supremacy there is no such thing.

So since you want to talk about fairy tales? Maybe you or bgrouse will care answer this question:

How have whites become so "successful"?


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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My ancestors WERE serfs back in the old country. Good thing MY family didn't stick around there and do nothing but complain.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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Well I was born here and since your punk ass doesn't tell whites who complain about this country to go back to Europe then I'm going to stay.


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

Delores Paulk said:


> Taz said:
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> > IM2 said:
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1. Africa IS a total failure.
2. Blacks in the US are one ungrateful bunch. Stop looking in the rear view mirror and move on to something positive in your life. My ancestors were serfs back in the old country, we've all had to suck it up at some point. Now it's time to move forward.


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Delores Paulk said:
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> > Taz said:
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You think a racist is anyone who doesn't agree with you. And another thing: the truth can't be racist. It is what it is.


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> abu afak said:
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> > abu afak last post
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People ALIVE got compensation, not their descendants 150 years later.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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No, I think a racist s a person who believes racist crap. Like most of what you post. There is no truth in it.


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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I don't care if you stay, just stop blaming whites for slavery. We weren't alive, so NOT OUR PROBLEM! 
Just like IT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO YOU, so you get no compensation.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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Cobell v Salazar dumb ass. Go look it up. Besides white liability for reparations did not end 150 years ago.


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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You see the truth, you just refuse to acknowledge it. And it pisses you off that your narrative is bogus.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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I will blame whites for slavery, the 100 years after slavery for right now and in the future until white racism ends here. Your  white ass is the beneficiary of all these things.  So we are owed compensation and what you think doesn't erase the debt owed.


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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I have no problem for compensation for anyone still alive who was a slave. How's that?


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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So how much money would satisfy YOU? Got a number?


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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 To bad it's not. Now do you have something to intelligently add to this discussion?


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


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You go first.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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Do you care that you are paying Native Americans  today for things that happened 200 years ago? Because you are.

How's that?


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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As expected.


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## Taz (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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Apples and oranges.


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## abu afak (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Nah that's not all I gotta know.
> Japanese got reparations.  $20,000 each during Reagan.
> 
> *In 1988, President Reagan signed the Civil Liberties Act to compensate more than 100,000 people of Japanese descent who were incarcerated in internment camps during World War II. The legislation offered a formal apology and paid out $20,000 in compensation to each surviving victim. The law won congressional approval only after a decade-long campaign by the Japanese-American community.*
> ...


*Japanese IQ didn't change because of 20K for Some internment victims.*
DOH!
*It was the same before AND in Japan for Millennia.*
AS I pointed out with Marco Polo, etc
And Japanese are only about 10% of "NE Asians", the highest IQ group, which includes Chinese and Koreans.

Your replies are So bad/illogical they UNwittingly Illustrate/prove the point being discussed.

*And we have given Blacks far MORE than 20K in Welfare, Remedial edu, Affirmative Action, etc, for More than 50 years.
More like 10x that.*
Nothing changes.

Again:
*"MOST American Whites - and ASIANS - didn't come here on the "Mayflower" either.* Irish, Italians, Jews, Russians, etc, came here Broke-ass and Discriminated against.
Many signs up into the 60's said *"No Blacks OR Jews**".*

Many Asians in fact, came here as indentured Railway labor just as blacks were being freed from slavery.

Then we Interned the Japanese as late WWII, and they lost everything. We Nuked their resourceLess Seismic Rock, and killed a good portion of their male population.
YET NE Asians HERE surpass us in Average IQ and Income, and Japan was the #2 economy within "50 years" of losing WWII.
Domestically, Jews yet a bit higher.
Discrimination does NOT explain this.

It's IQ.
It's Genetic.
Reality Check:
That's the reason the country And World looks the way it does.
It's that simple.

*Before Colonialization Marco Polo found, Silk, Porcelain, Gunpowder, a Civil Service system, and Astronomical records in China/Japan. 
*In sub-Saharan Africa, just the same hunter-gatherer man had been 100,000 years ago before migrants who left had Evolved above their ancestral populations. No written language, no wheel.**

*Were it not for 'Whites', in fact, sub-Saharan Africa would be the same as it was those milennia ago... even today. Half the continent Wiped out by AIDS or Ebola without White medicine, and many still live in huts. Sub-Sahara still an un-self-governable rabble.*

It's that simple/predictable.
The world only makes sense knowing/acknowledging this fact, rather than 10,000 rationalizations/excuses."
.......
*The World looks the way it does because of...
IQ.

NE Asians - 106
White/Euro - 100
USA 'Black' - 85 (avg 25% white, 75% sub-Saharan)
sub-Saharan - 70.

That's all you gotta know.
And that's the way the world looked BEFORE SLAVERY/colonialization and still does.*
As I pointed out.
`


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## Paul Essien (Nov 27, 2017)

abu afak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Nah that's not all I gotta know.
> ...


One thing I've always noticed about you guys who are always running around trying to prove how stupid black people are is this.

What is your solution ?

You're saying "Black people are less intelligent (On average)"

I'm saying "Yes. I am"

Now what ?

They keep on rolling this out just as long as they never get to the doing part.


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## abu afak (Nov 27, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> One thing I've always noticed about you guys who are always running around trying to prove how stupid black people are is this.
> What is your solution ?
> You're saying "Black people are less intelligent (On average)"
> I'm saying "Yes. I am"
> ...


We are debating what the Problem IS first.
Another poster disagrees.
Every problem doesn't necessarily have a solution. At least not one yet.

So it's either obtuse or dishonest to suggest I must have a Solution to a problem that we are identifying/debating.

The universe is expanding and will eventually fly apart, as will all the molecules in it.
Should we stop studying astronomy because there's no "solution.'?

In this case, lower Black IQ, is the best fitting and tested reason for why the world and it's people's look the way it does/they do.

A Solution would be interbreeding with higher intellect populations
(same as if you wanted to make whites or Asians better athletes, or previous, blacks better slaves by selecta-breeding)....
or within perhaps 20 or 30 years, or even sooner, genetic manipulation.
Otherwise it Is intractable, and has resisted all remediation.

ie allyand logic,
USA 'Black' IQ (85) is intermediate to the White/Euro 100, and sub-Sharan 70.
They are on average a 25% White/75% sub-Saharan population. 

ie,
There has been a Nobel Prize winner Sperm Bank for a few decades now.

So despite your Fallacious challenge that I necessarily have to a solution for a problem in dispute here, I HAVE Now offered a few.

As always, the debate itself is an unwitting (on one side) demonstration of the problem.
`


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## Paul Essien (Nov 27, 2017)

abu afak said:


> We are debating what the Problem IS first.


There is no problem. I am the problem. Black people are the problem in that we are natural less intelligent. Right ?




abu afak said:


> And it's either obtuse or dishonest to suggest I must have a Solution to a problem that we are identifying.


Maybe I over-estimated you but I thought you would not wimp out so easy when I asked you for solution, after all you are the superior having higher IQ person.


Right ?


abu afak said:


> The universe is expanding and will eventually fly apart, as will all the molecules in it. Should we stop studying astronomy because there's no "solution.'?


But that’s scientific fact

*So is the scientific fact is that rain water freezes at 0°C at a pressure of 1 bar.*

There’s no human choice involved. It’s observable and reproducible anywhere by anybody in the exact same way. Now a scientific fact, peer-reviewed, confirmed and approved, can have political consequences. Using the simple water example, it means that public administration, set into function by politics, orders winter road service to get ready once the temperatures fall below 0°C and the roads are wet.

But yet you throw around concepts that have no constant repeatability everywhere you try to reproduce the experiment or apply the theoretical claim.

*In natural science, only one single significant deviation is enough to render the claim at least disputable, at worst invalid.*

The reality is that there is not only one but a multitude of deviations that those “scientists” choose to ignore.

In neurology no one takes IQ seriously. It is archaic and only really useful to social scientists. Neurologists who have a better understanding of how the brain works because they spend decades of their lives studying it have little to no use for it, but to the public at large it is so important.



abu afak said:


> In this case, lower Black IQ, is the best fitting and tested reason for why the world and it's people's look the way it does/they do.


So what do you with a race of people who by nature stupid ?



abu afak said:


> The Solution would be interbreeding with higher intellect populations (same as if you wanted to make whites or Asians better athletes, or previous, blacks better slaves)....
> 
> or within perhaps 20 or 30 years, or even sooner, genetic manipulation.


Now were getting some where !!

So your claim is that whites and Asians are not as good of athletes as black people ?

Well,  the original story was that blacks were inferior by body AND brains. In the 1936 Olympics Hitler was confident that his Aryan athletes would dominate the Black American sprinters. Thanks to Jessie Owens that did not happen.

So white people pretended that they had never believed that white people were physically superior to black people and that their ideas had not been embarrassingly refuted. They just figured that brains were more important so if black people were to be sold to the world as inferior, it would have to be based on us being genetically stupid.

And if what you say is true when why you do find African Americans in the NBA but you won’t find many West Africans, who are certainly “blacker” and according to your racist theorist, athleticism and blackness somehow run together then you would expect West Africans to dominate the NBA and African teams to dominate international basketball competitions, and they don’t because these things are not concordant on the basis of race.

When you start to make statements about certain scientific things, it would be good to know what ur talking about. Like the simple basics of the evolution theory.

Something as major as an additional pair of muscles would have required major evolutionary changes. Or a loss of a pair of muscles, since all humans evolved from a common ancestor.

In order for black people to have "an extra muscle" from other human beings there would have to be fixed genetic differences between races.

*Meaning a clear break*

Indeed this seems like a speciation level difference to be frank, such as "Blacks" having a gene for X and no one else. This is absolutely clearly not the case. Not a shadow of a doubt.

I'm sure you'll say that black people are physically more capable of playing basketball. If that's true, why don't blacks dominate volleyball the same way ?

You have to be tall and have great jumping ability in volleyball Or why aren't all championship high jumpers black ?

Every player who has ever won an NHL scoring title is white.
Every Olympic weightlifting record is held by a caucasian.
All championship speed skaters are white.
Every major league pitcher who has ever won 300 games is white.
Almost all Olympic champions rowers and kayakers are white,
I don't believe for one instant the whites are physically advantaged in shooting, hockey pucks, lifting barbells, skating, or rowing, do you ?

There are actually very good reasons why track and field and boxing events are dominated the way they are; because that's who trains and competes in them. Boxing is generally for people who have limited opportunities. Racism limits your opportunities.

And yes Africans have been ahead of the rest of the world in long distance training methods for thirty years; it's no surprise they dominate the competitions.

If people from a geographic region of Africa are the world's champion sprinters and a different group of people from a geographic region of Africa are the world's champion marathon runners and both are alleged to be part of some specific "race" you have just argued against sprinting or distance running as being a "racial" characteristic. Since the 2 groups you tried to put into one "race" have contradictory abilities.

And it's possible for white people and black people to interbreed - Right ? So if a mixed-race individual would have this extra muscle. Then how much "black blood" is necessary for a person to have this fast twitch muscle ?

Your talking points probably sound good on stormfront. They sound really good when no-one is there to check them because it's clear that, as usual, you've not really thought this through......have you ?


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## abu afak (Nov 27, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> There is no problem. I am the problem. Black people are the problem in that we are natural less intelligent. Right ?


Black people's lower on Average IQ is indeed a problem for society and is a drag on the economy and crime stats



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> Maybe I over-estimated you but I thought you would not wimp out so easy when I asked you for solution, after all you are the superior having higher IQ person.
> Right ?


Huh?




			
				Paul said:
			
		

> But that’s scientific fact
> *So is the scientific fact is that rain water freezes at 0°C at a pressure of 1 bar.*
> There’s no human choice involved. It’s observable and reproducible anywhere by anybody in the exact same way. Now a scientific fact, peer-reviewed, confirmed and approved, can have political consequences. Using the simple water example, it means that public administration, set into function by politics, orders winter road service to get ready once the temperatures fall below 0°C and the roads are wet.
> But yet you throw around concepts that have no constant repeatability everywhere you try to reproduce the experiment or apply the theoretical claim.
> ...


LOL Mr Obtuse or Disingenuous.
It's a FACT that Los Angeles is sunnier/warmer than Seattle.
It doesn't mean EVERY Day is.
Doh!
Really Lame try. Pathetic 'logic'.

TAKE YOUR PICK
*race iq - Google Search *

Again one side of the discussion poignantly proven by lame logic of the other.



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> In neurology no one takes IQ seriously. It is archaic and only really useful to social scientists. ..


Actually, it's Psychology, not neurology, and almost Everyone knows it's true.
The APA has issued statements on the differential.



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> So what do you with a race of people who by nature stupid ?


Ahh, the inevitable Bogie Man/GENOCIDE card that no one is suggesting.




			
				Paul said:
			
		

> Now were getting some where !!
> So your claim is that whites and Asians are not as good of athletes as black people ?Well,  the original story was that blacks were inferior by body AND brains. In the 1936 Olympics Hitler was confident that his Aryan athletes would dominate the Black American sprinters. Thanks to Jessie Owens that did not happen...


No you're confusing/conflating "Hitler" with the actual scientifiic truthes.
Hitler also had to ban IQ tests because the Jews outperformed other Germans.
That IQ differential is STILL True, and part of MY claim, not yours.

ALL IQ tests for 50++ Years on ALL Continents/ALL Socioeconomic levels show the same results. Asians>White>Black.

IQ is the single best indicator of Life Outcome, and so it is. The Planet only makes sense accepting this FACT.



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> And if what you say is true when why you do find African Americans in the NBA but you won’t find many West Africans, who are certainly “blacker” and according to your racist theorist, ..


Virtually ALL elite sprinters are of West Afrian descent. Not another remotely close.
East Africans the same in Distance running.
The fact they don't have access to hoops is academic



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> When you start to make statements about certain scientific things, it would be good to know what ur talking about. Like the simple basics of the evolution theory.
> Something as major as an additional pair of muscles would have required major evolutionary changes. Or a loss of a pair of muscles, since all humans evolved from a common ancestor.
> In order for black people to have "an extra muscle" from other human beings there would have to be fixed genetic differences between races.


Blacks do have higher proportion of Fast Twitch muscle, and higher Testosterone and Androgen receptors.

You're out of your league Junior.



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> I'm sure you'll say that black people are physically more capable of playing basketball. If that's true, why don't blacks dominate volleyball the same way ?
> You have to be tall and have great jumping ability in volleyball Or why aren't all championship high jumpers black ?Every player who has ever won an NHL scoring title is white.
> And yes Africans have been ahead of the rest of the world in long


Given access, number, and interest, blacks would indeed probably dominate all sports. Even in Elite sports like Golf and Tennis we've seen them excel despite under-representation/participation/access.

*NOT so in Cognitive pursuits.*



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> And it's possible for white people and black people to interbreed - Right ? So if a mixed-race individual would have this extra muscle. Then how much "black blood" is necessary for a person to have this fast twitch muscle ?


Silly "demand detail" fallacy.



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> Your talking points probably sound good on stormfront. They sound really good when no-one is there to check them because it's clear that, as usual, you've not really thought this through......have you ?


I don't think the boys at Stormfront would like the fact Jews and Asians are Smarter than they are.

Another vacuous smear attempt.
`


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## emilynghiem (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Dear IM2
A. From what I understand, Affirmative Action quotas were finally struck down as unconstitutional. So this poor attempt (where AA started off as an initiative for urban development before it became corrupted as quotas that couldn't be enforced without causing worse complications) did end up backfiring. Although I would agree with you it DIDN'T COME FROM BLACKS but came from the same political elite that try to control everything and end up screwing things up worse.

Because the Black leadership and communities have to form their own representation, the solutions do not come out as legislation that is monopolized by the corporatized elite.  So I would agree with you that Blacks have not had access or equal representation to put forth any corrective legislation, and certainly not any that causes harm.

The WORST example I would give is Obama pushing the ACA mandates that deprived all citizens of freedom to choose health care provisions but penalized people deprived of liberty without due process through taxation without representation.  You could say that the Black interests got Obama elected and resulted in this legislation coming out in corrupted form that has never been checked or corrected; but I'd still blame that on CORPORATE interests that keep hijacking the process and preventing representation of the real people and communities still not being heard or their interests and beliefs protected.

So I would agree that given the MONOPOLIZED system that is still hijacked by corporate elite, NOBODY is getting represented now. Both the rich and the poor are complaining, because govt run amok is costing all of us our freedom and our budgets and economy, and our labor. Nobody is happy. This is costing everyone.

B. As for solutions that WOULD help the Black community and interests to overcome historic inequity and setbacks economically and politically,
I would like to propose to you and also Asclepias to back up Freedmen's Town historic descendant and business leader GLADYS HOUSE in leading a plan to restore this national Freed Slave settlement as a campus for teaching and training residents and leaders in (a) property and business ownership and management on a no risk basis where the school program owns the property under a trust that the interns are trained to manage through experienced mentors (before forming teams to create other sites for owning and managing property as a self-sustaining campus community)
(b) microlending, financial, credit and investment training and management
(c) media and communications outreach (d) spiritual counseling, health and healing of relations to prevent criminal abuse, addiction and crime that otherwise costs communities millions in incarceration that could be invested in localized health care, elderly facilities and daycare (e) legal and govt training and mentorship to become civic, business and govt leaders, with internships and on the job training at every level of govt from homeowner associations to city/county and state/federal.

Gladys has been funding and fighting this battle alone, because of perceptions of race and gender that have isolated her as a Black women Republican business and community leader.

I would like to ask the help of Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, Mayor Turner, and Lt. Col. Allen West, to invite Colin Kaepernick to take on this Freedmen's Town project, and raise between $2-10 million of the multimillions owed to taxpayers in restitution for abuses of public funds and authority to destroy this nationally registered historic district of Freed Slave, Black church, and military history , which includes an additional nationally registered WWII military and Civil Rights landmark site within the district.

this historic public housing complex was the site of several legal battles over (1) eminent domain to deprive Black and Italian landowners of private property in order to build segregated public housing for whites only (2) civil rights and desegregation that after the Civil Rights Act was passed (3) the 1996 court battle over eviction that I argued violated the inalienable Constitutional rights of the people to peaceably assemble and to petition the govt collectively as a community to redress grievances and to enforce the Campus Plans that residents had passed into federal laws under HOPE VI HUD reforms, as personally signed and endorsed by HUD secretary and Congresswoman Lee.

Please see www.campusplan.org for the original plans for sustainable community development as a campus managed by residents under a democratically elected resident council

Please see www.freedmenstown.com for Gladys House's plans to save the last block of 10 historic rowhouses for Veterans, to create construction and development jobs for local residents to become financially stabilized and self-supporting.

And the list I summarized of just 3 of the cases of fraud, corporate abuse or malfeasance at taxpayers' expense for which the community is owed millions in restitution that I have urged officials to invest in restoration to right these wrongs, as the worst case and ongoing pattern of political abuse and corruption targeting Black community interests and history, which amounts to genocide of this unique settlement with its own culture and economy destroyed by corporate abuse of political power and process.

Here is the link to the letter I wrote to Senator Cruz that listed 3 of the cases that are documented so that restitution can be assessed: Bull Ring - Anonymous1977: emilynghiem is Asian I support Freedmen's Town plan for Constitutional equality
I have proposed to allow interested citizens and community leaders to "buy shares" in these debts, so the property is held as collateral, and owned/managed by the people like Gladys House who have invested capital and labor in restoration plans.

If you want to see a documented case of abuses and solutions, so that this district can be used as a model for restitution or "reparations" for systemic oppression, abuses and deprivation of rights against the Black community,
and use the Federal Reserve facility on site as a banking system for monitoring debts, damages and credits to be invested in developing other districts also oppressed and deprived of equal protection of the laws,
then I ask you to please join this effort, and let's use Freedmen's Town as a national model to create a system for addressing and correcting these wrongs.

I would like help to form a team around Gladys House and other Republicans, and Congresswoman Lee and other Democrats, to stop the division over party politics, rich and poor, that is dividing and destroying our communities and our nation, including our ability to invest in restoration.

Thank you and I hope you are as serious about creating a model for corrections and restitution. Actions speak louder than words. We create a solution that works, and other communities and leaders will follow. 
www.earnedamnesty.org


Yours truly,
Emily Nghiem


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## Paul Essien (Nov 27, 2017)

I'll focus on the two statements where you said something



abu afak said:


> Black people's lower on Average IQ is indeed a problem for society and is a drag on the economy and crime stats


The racial designations that we currently use are principally based on three characteristics.

1) Facial structure
2) Skin color
3) Hair texture.

Those are things that are controlled by six genes out of thirty thousand genes in the human genome. And those genes have never been shown by any geneticist on the planet, any biologist on the planet, to be connected, or what geneticists call “concordant,” with any other trait known as intelligence or known as temperament or behavior or ethics or morality or any of those kinds of things.

Can you show different ?

If you are trying to say that IQ is a genetic product of race then then very first thing you need to do is define the races themselves.

But I always, sit back, invite them to give such a definition. Mainly because their fumbling attempts to define race point out just how subjective such definitions are. In close to a decade of debating race with racists.

I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific credentials, offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race.

Which are those “races” then, purely scientifically speaking and in clear text ?
What are the precise genetic criteria for making this classification ?

Those questions can obviously only be answered in arbitrary dimensions which are man-made constructs according to human perception alone.

However you twist it, you will run in circles and eventually spiral back into concepts based on human perception alone.

Everybody who has written a thesis or other academic papers knows that if you don’t deliver scientific definitions for your central subjects, you fail.

You don’t even have a leg to stand on as long as you don’t deliver a clear definition of what you actually write about.


abu afak said:


> LOL Mr Obtuse or Disingenuous.
> It's a FACT that Los Angeles is sunnier/warmer than Seattle.
> It doesn't mean EVERY Day is.
> Doh!


I know that you'll ignore mainstream facts and pretend that marginalized trash are actually hidden gems of knowledge only you and a select few others can see.

And NO - Everyone is not the same.

It’s clear that different cultures around the world define and express themselves quite differently. These differences are not initiated on the genetic level, and neatly distributed along traditional “racial” categories.

You assume “race” in humans as a biological fact without delivering a precise, uncontested biological definition

The science doesn’t support it.

As for the differences between groups, yes we acknowledge that human beings adapt to their geography to some extent – but not enough to become different *kinds* of human beings.

Now, if you choose to call the differences in groups “races” it stretches the original meaning of the word. But let’s accept that for a moment. You want races so badly, then I shall give them to you.

But you’re going to need more races (based on genetic variance) than they culled off in the past centuries. And the races won’t be arbitrarily colour-coordinated. There will be several European races, many Asian races, and a large number of African races.


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## Paul Essien (Nov 27, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


Racism has been the biggest 400 year Affirmative action for white people ever

That's the dirty secret that white people carry around with them, knowing that some of what they have is unearned.

The anger that comes up around discussions of affirmative action has its roots in that secret.
.
If you are white, when you seek admission to a university, apply for a job, or hunt for an apartment, you don't look threatening. Almost all of the people evaluating me for those things look like u, they are white.

You smile. you are white. You are one of them. Even when you get angry. You are cut some slack. After all, you're white.

If affirmative action policies were in place for the next hundred years, it's possible that at the end of that time the workplace could have as many mediocre minority professors as it has mediocre white professors. This is a simple observation that white privilege has meant that scores of second-rate white professors have slid through the system because their flaws were overlooked out of solidarity based on race.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

abu afak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Nah that's not all I gotta know.
> ...



.Well what your ignorant ass pointed out is historically inaccurate. So you're wrong.

Now shut up.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> IM2 said:
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Emily,  Affirmative Action never really had quotas unless you met certain criteria. And if you read the policy instead of letting whites tell you about it, then you understand that quotas and timetables were only required if and only if the business or university in question had a documented history of under utilizing minorities meaning they were still practicing racial discrimination. Opposition to Affirmatives Action using this weak lie of an argument has been waged by right wing racists who want to continue racial discrimination. It's time you black republicans understood this and as you are not white, quit repeating and supporting a  lie told to race bait on purpose to end the policy.

Last, when you talk about the ACA understand that the individual mandate is a republican idea proposed in a heritage foundation health care plan.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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Nope it's the exact same thing. You are beaten and you can't defend yourself.


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## Meathead (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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Stop begging. A little bit of pride is a good thing.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
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The show that whites commit more crimes. About 2.5 times more crime. You only talk about violet crime not all crime.. What you told me doesn't mean anything. You were shown that blacks commit 14 murders per 100,000. That's such a low percentage that it begins with zero and gas several zeros in front of it before you get a number. So there is your rate. But your argument says that since whites are 70 percent pf the population t's ok to commit most of the crimes. That's dumb.

And given that whites have an unprecedented historical track record of violence spanning  at least 241 years, that whites made laws to allow themselves to commit violence, that they murdered people of color and were allowed by the courts to walk., exterminated millions of Indians in an attempt at genocide, your punk ass is in no position to ty using math tricks trying to male a claim that you are telling someone something. Whites are the most violent people here. That's is a proven fact. So if you want to talk about violent crime, we can do that, but all you will end up doing is taking punks road because you can't face the truth about what your white asses have done.
.


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## Meathead (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
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I think people would care less about the extreme rates of black violence if they kept it to themselves. Alas, that is not true, they murder whites too.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Things you are to scared to read because you don't want to leave the slavery you live in on your conservative right wing plantation
> ...



Yoda says you are an idiot. You can be right wing and libertarian fool.


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
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Really? So would you care to address this post?



bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
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The reason I said you don't read what you post is based on (among other things) your consistent derision of per capita statistics in general followed by an apparent copy-and-paste of per capita statistics.







IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
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 As a race: hard work and intellectual ability.






IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
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Because I don't care about speeding, you stupid shitskin. I told you this already.





> What you told me doesn't mean anything. You were shown that blacks commit 14 murders per 100,000. That's such a low percentage that it begins with zero and gas several zeros in front of it before you get a number. So there is your rate. But your argument says that since whites are 70 percent pf the population t's ok to commit most of the crimes. That's dumb.


Do you understand that you sound like a retard when you say I am too focused when I discuss violent crimes (as opposed to other crimes like speeding) and then you focus strictly on murders (a very rare category of violent crime)?





> And given that whites have an unprecedented historical track record of violence spanning  at least 241 years, that whites made laws to allow themselves to commit violence, that they murdered people of color and were allowed by the courts to walk., exterminated millions of Indians in an attempt at genocide, your punk ass is in no position to ty using math tricks trying to male a claim that you are telling someone something. Whites are the most violent people here. That's is a proven fact. So if you want to talk about violent crime, we can do that, but all you will end up doing is taking punks road because you can't face the truth about what your white asses have done.
> .



So move to Apefreaka, you piece of shit. Take your turd-colored skin and move away from all the violence. As long as you stay, you are as full of shit as your shit-colored skin suggests. And yes, I know you don't HAVE to move. That's not what I said, I said you SHOULD move IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU POST.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > All you are going to get are more historically documented facts and peer reviewed studies.
> ...



Again this thread is not about Africa, nor is it about  the study on individualism. You have again posted off topic. If you want to discuss such issues  there are threads available to do so.

BTW

Title Why Can’t We All Just Be Individuals?: Countering the Discourse of Individualism in Antiracist Education
Permalink Why Can’t We All Just Be Individuals?: Countering the Discourse of Individualism in Anti-racist Education - eScholarship
Journal InterActions: UCLA Journal of Education and Information Studies, 6(1)
ISSN 1548-3320
Author DiAngelo, Robin J Publication Date 2010-01-25
*Peer reviewed*

This is a peer reviewed scientific study idiot. It is not just opinion. You did not get past the intro to learn that because of your racial bias.. So shut up about the study that is not the OP of this thread.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
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Per capita is not a respected measurement of crime. Your argument is based on a population based claim. So let me show you how invalid what your illiterate ass thinks is.

Since whites have 5 times the population and we want to make that an issue let’s start multiplying by 5. Blacks have over 2 million businesses right now, let’s multiply that by 5 and then see what the outcome will be. Now there are 10 million black owned businesses and more jobs in the black community.. Let’s reduce our unemployment rate by 5 to 2.6 percent. Blacks live at a 24 percent rate of poverty lets reduce that times 5 to make it 4.5 percent. Funny how you guys can only multiply when it comes to crimes. Lets keep multiplying folks.

The black economy now grows to 6.5 trillion instead of the 1.3 trillion we have now, We all have 5 times the amount of money we can spend and have earned. What happens them? All kinds of community development that’s what. Now property values increase in the black community and because of that we have more money in our schools. So now let’s multiply the number of blacks who go to college by 5 there are now 8.5 million blacks in college. This increase in population and jobs lowers the unemployment rate so you have fewer blacks on government assistance because they have stable employment. Youth crime is reduced because you have facilities and jobs available for them in their immediate communities. So then what happens to crime then if we do this, it reduces itself by 5 from 26 percent to 5.2 percent. Why? because the factors that create crime are reduced, so then crime reduces itself

We aren't talking about speeding here. Embezzlement and fraud, crimes hat steal billions from innocent people rendering them broke and hopeless, crimes just as crippling as taking a bullet, just as violent to the victim, are crimes  primarily done by whites. Drunken and impaired driving responsible for the deaths and crippling of thousands annually are crimes committed by whites. Crimes against families, whites lead in.

27 out of the 30 categories of crime whites lead in. Whites lead in violent crime, not blacks.

You have lived a lie. Whites have not been successful because of hard work and intellectual ability. You made laws that denied non whites from having the same  opportunities. I expected your answer due to the fact I know that you are an idiot.

I am an American. As such  have he right to peacefully air my grievance. As such I have the right to fight ad change the problem or end it. So as such don't give a pussy like you the pleasure of running away so you can continue doing what you do. What I do is I fight and beat your ass. So I don't go anywhere.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
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Waaahhhh....whitey is mean to me........waaaahhhhh


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
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> > IM2 said:
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So why did you use it, idiot?



IM2 said:


> When you commit 70 percent of the crimes, you have a crime problem. .



And if it's not respected, how come it's consistently provide by crime stat sources?





> Your argument is based on a population based claim. So let me show you how invalid what your illiterate ass thinks is.
> 
> Since whites have 5 times the population and we want to make that an issue let’s start multiplying by 5. Blacks have over 2 million businesses right now, let’s multiply that by 5 and then see what the outcome will be. Now there are 10 million black owned businesses and more jobs in the black community.. Let’s reduce our unemployment *rate *by 5 to 2.6 percent.


That's already a *rate *(which is what per capita is), you stupid shitskin, so there's nothing to convert. 





> Blacks live at a 24 percent rate of poverty lets reduce that times 5 to make it 4.5 percent. Funny how you guys can only multiply when it comes to crimes. Lets keep multiplying folks.
> 
> The black economy now grows to 6.5 trillion instead of the 1.3 trillion we have now, We all have 5 times the amount of money we can spend and have earned. What happens them? All kinds of community development that’s what. Now property values increase in the black community and because of that we have more money in our schools. So now let’s multiply the number of blacks who go to college by 5 there are now 8.5 million blacks in college. This increase in population and jobs lowers the unemployment rate so you have fewer blacks on government assistance because they have stable employment. Youth crime is reduced because you have facilities and jobs available for them in their immediate communities. So then what happens to crime then if we do this, it reduces itself by 5 from 26 percent to 5.2 percent. Why? because the factors that create crime are reduced, so then crime reduces itself


Your moronic negro brain is clearly incapable of understanding what per capita is, or what a rate is for that matter.





> We aren't talking about speeding here. Embezzlement and fraud, crimes hat steal billions from innocent people rendering them broke and hopeless, crimes just as crippling as taking a bullet, just as violent to the victim, are crimes  primarily done by whites. Drunken and impaired driving responsible for the deaths and crippling of thousands annually are crimes committed by whites. Crimes against families, whites lead in.
> 
> 27 out of the 30 categories of crime whites lead in. Whites lead in violent crime, not blacks.


Is that per capita? What is the source?





> You have lived a lie. Whites have not been successful because of hard work and intellectual ability. You made laws that denied non whites from having the same  opportunities. I expected your answer due to the fact I know that you are an idiot.


Whites don't decide what the law is in a country GOVERNED BY BLACKS. Those who GOVERN decide the law so how do you explain the failure of African countries compared to white countries?





> I am an American. As such  have he right to peacefully air my grievance. As such I have the right to fight ad change the problem or end it. So as such don't give a pussy like you the pleasure of running away *so you can continue doing what you do*. What I do is I fight and beat your ass. So I don't go anywhere.


I can continue doing what?


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
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...but I'll stay here anyway for whitey's gibs.


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

Had to quote this again!



IM2 said:


> Per capita is not a respected measurement of crime. Your argument is based on a population based claim. So let me show you how invalid what your illiterate ass thinks is.
> 
> Since *whites have 5 times the population* and we want to make that an issue *let’s start multiplying by 5*.
> 
> ...


Except the way you're doing it you'd have to multiply the black population by 5 as well, idiot, and then you'd get the same unemployment rate! Holy shit you're a moron!

That's what a RATE is, idiot!





> Blacks live at a 24 percent rate of poverty lets reduce that times 5 to make it 4.5 percent. Funny how you guys can only multiply when it comes to crimes. Lets keep multiplying folks.
> 
> The black economy now grows to 6.5 trillion instead of the 1.3 trillion we have now, We all have 5 times the amount of money we can spend and have earned. What happens them? All kinds of community development that’s what. Now property values increase in the black community and because of that we have more money in our schools. So now let’s multiply the number of blacks who go to college by 5 there are now 8.5 million blacks in college. This increase in population and jobs lowers the unemployment rate so you have fewer blacks on government assistance because they have stable employment. Youth crime is reduced because you have facilities and jobs available for them in their immediate communities. So then what happens to crime then if we do this, it reduces itself by 5 from 26 percent to 5.2 percent. Why? because the factors that create crime are reduced, so then crime reduces itself


Too bad Mugabe is having trouble staying in power. You'd make a great minister over there!






If anyone needed to make an argument to keep negroes out of government, just read IM2's posts!


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## flacaltenn (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
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I see you're also badly informed on what being libertarian means. There are 2 important metrics for political beliefs. You can graph them out. One is how much ECONOMIC  freedom or govt control you think the Constitution allows. And the 2nd axis is how much SOCIAL freedom or govt control you should hand to the govt.

Libertarians are generally socially ultra liberal. Want the Constitutional limits that TRUE LIBERALS want. So folks get MAXIMUM choices on their personal affairs and not spied on or harrassed by law. They are also economic Conservatives believing in lean efficient govt services and good "customer service" to their constituents.

*WE are the ONLY party you could rely on to keep out of nation building in the Mid East, rolling back Domestic Spying, Asset Forfeiture laws, protecting EVERY ONE of the 10 in the Bill of Rights and KILLING the handouts to corporations thru favored tax breaks for stuff that's ALREADY on the market.*  The only game in town that got BOTH those "axes of politics" correct.


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## Yarddog (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Kat said:
> 
> 
> > Natural Citizen said:
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your assumptions that all whites believed the same thing for these 241 years is crap. The black slavers who captured other blacks treated them horrendously as well, beating them tying them up like animals, read about how they sent them in slavery to the arabs and the mortality rates were off the charts. Does this mean that these Black slavers thought the people they were capturing were less than human? Or does it mean that sometimes throughout human history we have treated each other like crap?

  personally i categorize the human race into personality types that transcend race. You have your helpful people, you have your creators, you have your takers, your optimists, doubters, you have people that forgive and people who will always hold grudges, you have some who look for the most in people and others who look for the least in people.
None of these traits are owned by political affiliation or race. I reject that based on my life experience and what I can see. A kid born in the world today should not be born into the world with a stone around his neck for being the color he's born. At the moment he or she is born, they had now control of the Mayflower or what laws were passed in 1776 or what happened during Jim crow. throughout history often many are controlled and influenced greatly by the few its just the way it has been. through out  most history, the majority of people probably didn't know really what was going on outside their own village or town let alone have the desire to be a social justice activist, they were probably most likely consumed by their sick mule or their crops dying, now somebody can sit comfortably sit behind their keyboard and make sweeping accusations of a group of people based on skin color as if they can get inside the head of everyone who lived 300 years ago.


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
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> > flacaltenn said:
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Are you sure? Did you read his posts? I think you're being unreasonably optimistic there.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Aint a single thing "scientific" thing about it. It's all faulty opinion not based on any extensive research, polling, experiments, numbers, or equations. And it's reviewed ONLY by folks with similar belief systems who aren't really judging the value of opinions. Just making sure they CONFORM to the group think associated with "Big Diversity" business..

As for the On-Topic thing -- you brought charges against me about all the "FACTS" you've presented and have ignored any counter-arguments or REVIEW of those facts. Won't answer a single question. 

Accusing me and others of "being scared" to read "the truth" and then RACIST when we reject your assertions. That's got to end up in a more meaningful dialogue. Besides, I don't think anyone REMEMBERS what the topic of this thread is. The topic was LOST 6 or 8 pages ago..


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
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It's his kind of "science" where you take numbers and multiply them with no rhyme or reason.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


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There's one of my favorite books on the shelf right here called "How to lie with statistics" ...  It's really written for lay people. But it demonstrates you can prove most anything with statistics if you badly butcher the definition of what's being measured.  So yeah.. Even when numbers are involved -- it can still be garbage. I've had engineers push 4 or 5 page Excel worksheets at me that were butchered and imprecise.


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## abu afak (Nov 27, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> *I'll focus on the two statements where you said something*


You've LOST every point we discussed.
You've moved the goal posts or dropped EVERY point.

Your logic is blindingly goofy.
You know NOTHING about the topic.
Nothing about Race.
Nothing about IQ.
Your claims about IQ and "Neurology" were Laughable.
You're a Clown.
More below..




			
				Paul said:
			
		

> The racial designations that we currently use are principally based on three characteristics.
> 1) Facial structure 2) Skin color 3) Hair texture. Those are things that are controlled by six genes out of thirty thousand genes in the human genome. And those genes have never been shown by any geneticist on the planet, any biologist on the planet, to be connected, or what geneticists call “concordant,” with any other trait known as intelligence or known as temperament or behavior or ethics or morality or any of those kinds of things.
> Can you show different ?


You don't what race is Clown.
You are 100% Ignorant of the topic.

Your view of Race is basd on the Nightly News "Black/White/Cop."

Scientifically, *Race, aka subspecies, is morphological (looks) difference caused by genetic Difference, born of separate Evolution for thousands/Tens of thousands of years* (in humans).

The USA group and colloquialism 'Black' is not really a Race. It's a Recent admixture of two Macro-Races. 25% White-Euro/75% sub-Saharan.
And AVERAGE USA Black IQ (85) is - HARK! -  midway between the Euro 100 and sub-Saharan 70.

Australian Aboriginals are also dark in color, but genetically further distant from sub-Saharans than Euros are.
They are two Different Races.
They share many traits because of equatorial/hunter-gatherer life-styles, including Low IQs. But not necessarily having to do with skin color.

*Another Stupid Boner of yours is that race is controlled by only 6 Genes!*
Too ignorant to even indulge. It's Millions of 3 Billion Gene loci.

When you send your Blood in for Testing at 23andMe et al, it takes hundreds of Markers at least to separate what percent of each Race you are.

Races also have different average Skull sizes/volumes that correlate with IQ. Asian>White>'Black.'
This was the first 'IQ related gene' found.

It is beyond ironic that a scientific ILLITERATE like you is challenging me.
And you don't have the IQ to merely 'wing it' either.



abu afak said:


> LOL Mr Obtuse or Disingenuous.
> *It's a FACT that Los Angeles is sunnier/warmer than Seattle.
> It doesn't mean EVERY Day is.*
> Doh!





			
				Paul said:
			
		

> I know that you'll ignore mainstream facts and pretend that marginalized trash are actually hidden gems of knowledge only you and a select few others can see.
> *And NO - Everyone is not the same...*


WTF Is that?
Stupid or Dishonest?
Who said "Everyone is the same"?#%&^#&(

One can make true Generalizations about races, but it doesn't preclude a 130 IQ black. Tho he's much less ikely than a Japanaese to have it.
That WAS the point of my LA/Seattle example. DUH!

AGAIN - they overlap
* race iq - Google Search*
Get it yet?

As to the rest, more and more people are hybrid/admixtures of Races, but it doesn't mean they don't exist.

ie, In a room with 300 Naked people: 100 Scandinavians, 100 Pygmies, and 100 Chinese, what do you suppose your margin of error would be in telling them apart?
WHY?
Even if a Pygmy was albino, he would easily be discernible by the SETS of features that make up Race.
That IS the rule of Thumb used in other Living things for Race/subspecies. The ability, with high precision, to mix and reseperate.

You're a long-winded 100% scientifically illiterate JOKE whose lost every single point. You just keep moving the goal posts/blathering.
`


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

Yarddog said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Kat said:
> ...



I've never said all whites believed anything for 241 years. I have said that whites have practiced racism in this nation for 241 years. Whites have done that. I have on numerous occasions stated that not all whites are responsible and I am not going to post any disclaimer after every sentence  written that explains to you how all whites have not done this just so you can feel good. You are going to get how I feel abut being exposed to this bullshit for 56 years while hearing whites constantly lying to me about how its not. Pertaining to the so called black slavers, your story is disingenuous.  Even if whites had not invaded  Africa and gave guns to certain tribes and paid them to capture other enemy tribes, the fact remains that blacks did not ship the slaves to America, blacks did not purchase the captured slaves in Africa, and blacks did not make slavery legal in America. 

Now you can talk about what a kid today should not be born with according to you but we have elected office a racist president tying to turn back the clock who was nominated even when he was preaching racism then elected as he continued preaching racism. So spare me all the words because I've heard them all before from whites like you who seem to think I believe that all whites are something like I have never had contact or relationships with whites and don't know the difference in what most of you guys are saying here and whites who do have non racist views.


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...


I haven't read your book, but for some reason I don't think what he's doing and what the book discusses would be the same. To me, lying with statistics implies carefully collecting statistics in a way to fool someone. It would actually require significant knowledge of statistics.

What he's doing is taking rates and stupidly multiplying the denominator or numerator for no reason at all, like a retarded child who takes a hammer and tries to force the square peg into the round hole (except implying that IM2 can use a hammer is an undeserved complement).


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Yarddog said:
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I hope Trump turns back the clock so it will be like whites never bought the negro slaves and just left them in Apefreaka.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
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> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



What counter arguments?

The problem here is that have presented facts.

The OP of this  thread is not the study from another thread called:

*Why Can’t We All Just Be Individuals?: Countering the Discourse of Individualism in Antiracist Education*

Which you have consistently been referring to. And are too scared to read.

And if this thread has been taken off topic it is because of the racists  you keep allowing to troll here.

So here let me help you. this is he OP of this thread. It is my opinion. And its based on my experiences with some of the moderators here.

For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.

What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.

There is a major difference and intelligent adults should be able to recognize that difference and try understanding how you would feel if you were the group told how you were all stupid, that your race has never done anything, and that if not for the white man you'd be nothing. I don't think you'd appreciate being called a racist for saying your race is superior after reading pages of how inferior you are to whites in every way. Only a human with no personal pride would accept this kind if constant denigration without fighting back. Yet here blacks doing this are called racists.

Blacks did not choose to come here on the Mayflower with a belief they were superior and more civilized than everyone else. We were bought here on ships like the Amistad then sold into lifetime bondage because of that belief. Then after slavery was made illegal whites created another system on inequality that continued to enforce that same belief for an additional 100 plus years. Only in the last 52 years have blacks been at least free from overt racist beliefs from whites. *52 YEARS!* Therefore to try making our experiences here the same and our responses to race and racism the same as whites is erroneous and this error is what needs to stop

And here is your first reply.

Don't think that's the ONLY message whites bring to Race discussions. There are appalling consequences of the cultural differences that have NOTHING to do with being inferior or stupid. I'd love to see trainloads of bright young black graduates going out to Silicon Valley or going into STEM fields or flooding the market with entrepreneurial ideas. But EDUCATION is failing them and they are failing to set education as a priority. 

The CULTURAL differences are a larger part of the racism than the pure neo-nazi inferiority thing. In trying so hard not to act "white" -- generations of blacks are choosing to STAY in failing cities that MISTREAT them and abuse them with incompetent and unresponsive legal systems of justice.* It APPEARS -- they believe they are not YET FREE.*. Because it's never occurred to them they can afford to live better and safer in the rest of very large America. And POSSIBLY they believe -- they would not be welcomed. OR -- that they would "lose their culture" by doing so..

What are these huge cultural differences? Your first paragraph is totally wrong. Ib fact your entre post is inaccurate. Blacks don't think they lose their culture by moving out f the hood. This is just a silly assertion made by an ignorant white man. Racism is the biggest problem we face. I think that's not open for debate between me as a black man and you as a white one.

Why so Few Black People in Silicon Valley?

*In the '60s and '70s, employment opportunities in the manufacturing industry attracted black workers, but "there were choices and decisions made that hindered the growth of the black community," Moore says. He says that part of Northern California's institutional racism has been keeping those who live in other cities from getting to San Jose. "We are one of the biggest cities in the nation but there isn't a black community," Moore says. "BART was never extended to San Jose. Why?" 

Answering his own question, Moore claims that BART was originally designed in such a way as to lessen opportunities for people of color or low income. He notes that at the time there was economic prosperity in Silicon Valley and a large tax base to pay for the extension of BART, but the rail line wasn't expanded. With many African Americans living in the East Bay, transportation impediments made it harder to commute.*

Why so Few Black People in Silicon Valley?

You talk stupid abut blacks moving but you do not a[ply he same opinion t small rural failing white towns. Your position is idiotic.

Blacks are not safe in all white towns. There isn't all that rest of a very large America for us. There are are plenty pf places we cannot go. Because of racism. You don't seem to get that.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



No you are ignoring real numbers and trying to build a case with bogus assumptions based on per capita.


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## IM2 (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Had to quote this again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My argument is built on the assumption that blacks and whites have the same population. That in itself multiplies the black population by 5 dumb ass. So if 5 times more blacks graduate from college, and there are 5 times the number of businesses and available jobs located in the black community unemployment in the black community will not remain the same. You are stupid. Just straight up stump stupid.


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...


Let me try again. I'll use simple numbers this time.
_________________________________

Let's say you have the option to buy a car. Both cars cost the same and they are the only 2 models available.

Model 1 reports that 50 of their cars have failed and Model 2 reports that 40 of their cars have failed.

You then learn that Model 1 has had 100,000,000 cars on the road and that Model 2 has only had 40 cars on the road.

I am an independent salesman. I don't care which car you get (my commission is the same regardless of which one I sell), but I tell you that Model 1 is more reliable because it has a 0.00005% failure rate and Model 2 has a 100% failure rate. You're going to tell me that I am giving you a "case" with "bogus assumptions based on per capita" and still buy the Model 2 because 40 failures is less than 50 failures?


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Had to quote this again!
> ...


In the USA? But they don't. There are fewer blacks than whites (by a lot).

No wonder you sound stupid when you talk about this.





> That in itself multiplies the black population by 5 dumb ass. So if 5 times more blacks graduate from college, and there are 5 times the number of businesses and available jobs located in the black community unemployment in the black community will not remain the same. You are stupid. Just straight up stump stupid.


OK negro, just take a look at my example above. Start slow and see if you can get that before you make a bigger fool of yourself.


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## bgrouse (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Had to quote this again!
> ...


Let's put your negro science to the test:
================
"Actual" numbers (for the sake of discussion, not the real numbers):
100 blacks
1 black college graduate
1 black business
20 jobs

Employment rate: 20 jobs / 100 blacks, or 20% employment rate, *80% unemployment rate*

---------------

Multiplied by 5
500 blacks
5 black college graduates
5 black businesses
100 jobs

Employment rate: 100 jobs / 500 blacks, or 20% employment rate, *80% unemployment rate*
===========

And the unemployment rate stayed the same.


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## DOTR (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



  What you want is to gaslight whites into thinking black group identity is good and white group identity is bad.
Not happening any more.l


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## flacaltenn (Nov 27, 2017)

IM2 said:


> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.



And BOTH groups of angry people use the SOLE APPLIANCE of stereotyping an entire group to make their arguments.. That's WHY you're favorite academic tool is spectacularly wrong. BTW -- because the truth is -- only a very small portion of those groups --- are angry. It seems that the diversity biz is BREEDING new angry people in order to AMP UP the racism.. 

No sense in using the SAME tactics to defeat a bunch of morons who make racist claims to superiority. Because in REALITY -- no group can claim TOTAL superiority. The distributions of talent, brains, beauty all overlap. THAT's WHY -- individual engagement is more productive. And there's less shouting involved. When every reply starts with "YOU PEOPLE"  --- there IS no possible conversation. You are doing that. If you do it to BE like a white racist -- you're working too hard.  Ridicule, humor, and forcing them to defend -- is easier than you packing up a wagon load of mediocre crap and rolling it out. 



IM2 said:


> There is a major difference and intelligent adults should be able to recognize that difference and try understanding how you would feel if you were the group told how you were all stupid, that your race has never done anything, and that if not for the white man you'd be nothing. I don't think you'd appreciate being called a racist for saying your race is superior after reading pages of how inferior you are to whites in every way. Only a human with no personal pride would accept this kind if constant denigration without fighting back. Yet here blacks doing this are called racists.



AGAIN -- because you buy into the false premise of GROUP is BETTER than individual, you're flailing. 



> how you would feel if you were the group told how you were all stupid, that your race has never done anything, and that if not for the white man you'd be nothing.



THAT confrontation goes NOWHERE EVER.. Because it can't be proven. It's not anything reasonable people would accept. Gonna ask you a couple questions. You think YOU MIGHT just oblige me with the answers? 

1) Are YOU inferior? 

2) Do you have a vested responsibility to DEFEND every one of your race? (like you did with the tyrannical Mugabe  LOL)

3) Who do you allow to SPEAK for you as a mere member of a group? 

4) Why is it then if the answers are "no" to first 3 questions -- that you buy into this anti-individualist shit that your tool is selling? 

THIS is what you're failing at. I'm talking to YOU -- not your "group" identity. And it's that "group identity politics" that FUELS the race baiting, hate and bias. 

...................................... It's obvious...


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## Yarddog (Nov 27, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Yarddog said:
> ...




Trump made it a point during his campaign to say he wants to reverse the unemployment rates for black Americans, so I really don't see where he is trying to turn back the clock. I believe unemployment rates are down. Trump is also for school choice and that would also help minorities
Trump unveils $20B school choice proposal
So really, I don't see how Trump wants to turn back the clock there either, he just wants to do things that the establishment politicians kick and scream about because he doesn't want to play inside their rules.
Black people are here to stay, so there is no turning it back. Advancing their cause as a demographic does help this country and is actually pretty necessary. The thing I just find unnecessary is the whole white guilt movement which only serves to have the opposite effect on peace between people. 
I'm not sure why your calling Africa, "Apefreaka". You should go there and get it out of your system. It's an interesting place, though it can be a place of extremes depending on where you go. I have met some wonderful and motivated people there, and then again i have met some truely dispicable people, but the truth is, there really is a wealth in the people that live there . It's not what racists in this country think it is, you just need to have a sense of adventure and open your mind a bit. chances are, your not going to die.


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## Paul Essien (Nov 28, 2017)

abu afak said:


> You've LOST every point we discussed.
> You've moved the goal posts or dropped EVERY point.
> 
> Your logic is blindingly goofy.
> ...


It's you that is saying black IQ is lower, in general, because blacks are “naturally” less intelligent.

*That's an exceptionally radical statement.*

So it needs exceptionally radical proof to back it up – proof which you simply don’t have.

How about White people ?

They are less genetically diverse than Blacks, but they obviously have genetic variance between say Scandinavians and Italians or Anglo Saxons and Spaniards but evidently, those genetic differences are somehow never linked to intelligence.

You don’t want to theorize on which group of white people are the least intelligent.

That’s only used for talking about black ppl. Right ?

Who are the genetically dumber and disadvantaged Whites ?

If there is enough genetic difference 4 white people 2 have different hair color, eye color and different average height, then why not intelligence?

The answer is because this is not science, it’s politics and to ask that question does not serve the your goals.

You don’t want to face the idea that you might belong to the dumbest group of White people in your little hierarchy, so you theorize that “Whiteness” simply makes all Whites just as capable, and all Blacks equally disadvantaged.

You make foolish observations such as there is one gigantic “White Race” and also believe there is one huge “Black Race” Of course, even the most cursory googling on the subject of African genetic diversity will show you that African peoples have extremely diverse and divergent genetic makeups.

But to you they are all be guided by the same “dumb gene” or the same “violence gene,” or “fast running gene.”

But to you all look blk ppl are alike. It doesn’t matter if they have a variety of different features, or if groups have different average heights, have reached different levels of civilization, and self-identify as different peoples.

*NO ! 




*

Blacks are all ONE race !!!

*



*

Not two, or five, or twenty Black races.

ONE !!

*



*

Well, from your perspective, it has to be that way because in order for your mumbo-jumbo to really work, it requires a genetically homogenous race of Blacks who all share roughly the same DNA.

Look. I'd have more respect for you if you manned up, and dropped the pseudo-scientific charade and said,

“I don't like n.i.g.g.e.r.s”

At least that would be true.


abu afak said:


> Your view of Race is basd on the Nightly News "Black/White/Cop."
> Scientifically, *Race, aka subspecies, is morphological (looks) difference caused by genetic Difference, born of separate Evolution for thousands/Tens of thousands of years* (in humans).
> 
> The USA group and colloquialism 'Black' is not really a Race. It's a Recent admixture of two Macro-Races. 25% White-Euro/75% sub-Saharan.
> ...


I feel bad for you, because you’re trying to debate me in my own field. Don’t confuse your 1st Grade Crayola Painting with the Mona Lisa. You’re not as deep or as clever as you try to make yourself out to be. See when you try to go logical. It's pretty easy to debate you.

DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair colour can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another.

It has never been a case of there not being differences between the way human beings look. The trouble is in the imprecise taxonomy.

How do you define a “race” and might there not be other equally valid ways of dividing humans into taxonomical groupings ?

Many scientists worked hard (REAL HARD) on finding working definition of race as a biological fact.

They all failed.

They all failed not because genetic differences can’t be observed between various humans (after all, if there weren’t mDNA differences, we wouldn’t know much about human maternal ancestry).

They all failed because genetic differences do not support social races, races that divide people into (pardon my words) “black”, “white”, “yellow” and “red”.

The only living subspecies of the species Homo sapiens is Homo sapiens sapiens. That is current scientific knowledge. And it is very likely to remain the only one, unless Sasquatch or the Yeti decide to walk into a science lab for a DNA test one day.

There is a reason why blood transfusions and bone marrow transplants work. This is why a “black ” persons blood can save an white Irishman’s life with a transfusion and vice versa Some blood types have an affinity for certain groups of people…but the genes are the same.


abu afak said:


> WTF Is that?
> Stupid or Dishonest?
> Who said "Everyone is the same"?#%&^#&(
> 
> ...


If races are real and differences are real; so which are those “races” then, purely scientifically speaking and in clear text ?

What are the precise genetic criteria for making this classification ?

Those questions can obviously only be answered in arbitrary dimensions which are man-made constructs according to human perception alone.

However you twist it, you will run in circles and eventually spiral back into concepts based on human perception alone.

This is why you do not drive you arguments to it's logical conclusions:

That is if IQ tests are objective then why don't you argue to give all the top positions to those with the highest IQ ?

Why have elections? Why have job interviews or resumes ? Why not have birth licences or sterilization based on IQ?

And even if someone has an IQ lower than you. So what ? Does that make this person somehow less equal than you?

You are making the mistake in thinking that physiological differences are markers for genetic-based IQ differences, except that they AREN’T.

But the IQ argument can work (to the extent that it works) on the force of rhetoric. You are trying to hijack science in the same way that people hijack religion ..............._to promote their agenda_.

The problem is: unlike in religion, science is far less open to interpretation.

Which is you fails so often fail.

It’s also understandable when serious scientists are getting tired of debunking you guys over and over again. After all, I’m busy enough with proper research that might become truly beneficial for mankind. It’s almost like fighting Zombies, you smack one down, up pops another.


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## Paul Essien (Nov 28, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> They show blacks commit *violent crimes* at *a higher rate* than whites. Like I told you before, if 100/100 blacks are violent criminals and 200 out of 2,000,000 whites are violent criminals (in a country with a population of 2,000,000 whites and 100 blacks), is the average white more violent than the average black?


You've never been attacked by a black dude.

So why are you so scared of black men ?

Every person who has sh*t on you in your life has been a white person..

Tell me when I'm lying ?

Stories of black harming whites spread farther and quicker because they seem more worse.

But most crime is black on black. There are black people who harm whites, but whites make sure they live as far away from black people as possible and whites have a system that punishes black ppl more severely should they harm white people

Whites do most of the crime, so that mean crime is not fought from an intelligent perspective.


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## Taz (Nov 28, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


We never owned indians and we never enslaved them. Plus, they have their own lands to live on, you don't. Plus, the money goes for health, education, roads... Which you also get. Couldn't be any further from the same.


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## abu afak (Nov 28, 2017)

abu afak said:


> You've LOST every point we discussed.
> You've moved the goal posts or dropped EVERY point.
> Your logic is blindingly goofy.
> You know NOTHING about the topic.
> ...





Paul Essien said:


> It's you that is saying black ..., ....


"Your own field"
LOFL.
*You use NO scientific terms. 
You didn't know what Race was. I defined it. 
Your thought "Neurology" dealt with race and IQ.
Your posts are total FRAUDS.
Now you've added Juvenile Pictures.*
Your posts contain NO SCIENCE at all. NO citations. Nada.

NOVA | Does Race Exist?
with two Differing opinions. I post the latter from someone who necessarily/Practically/Forensically deals with race.
George Gill, the Hands-on proponent:

*Slightly Over Half of all biological/physical anthropologists today believe in the Traditional view that human Races are biologically valid and Real.*
Furthermore, they tend to see nothing wrong in defining and naming the different populations of Homo sapiens. The Other Half of the biological anthropology community believes either that the traditional racial categories for humankind are arbitrary and meaningless, or that at a minimum there are better ways to look at human variation than through the "racial lens."
[......]
*Bones don't lie*
First, I have found that forensic anthropologists attain a high degree of accuracy in determining geographic racial affinities (white, black, American Indian, etc.) by utilizing both new and traditional methods of bone analysis. Many well-conducted studies were reported in the late 1980s and 1990s that test methods objectively for percentage of correct placement. Numerous individual methods involving midfacial measurements, femur traits, and so on are over 80% accurate alone, and in combination produce very high levels of accuracy. No forensic anthropologist would make a racial assessment based upon just one of these methods, but in combination they can make very reliable assessments, just as in determining sex or age. In other words, multiple criteria are the key to success in all of these determinations.....* My students ask, "How can this be? They can Identify skeletons as to Racial origins but do not believe in Race!"* ..

*"The idea that Race is 'only skin deep' is simply not true."*
Deeper than the skin
[.......]The "reality of race" therefore depends more on the definition of reality than on the definition of race. If we choose to accept the system of racial taxonomy that physical anthropologists have traditionally established—major races: black, white, etc.—then one can classify human skeletons within it just as well as one can living humans. The bony traits of the nose, mouth, femur, and cranium are just as revealing to a good osteologist as skin color, hair form, nose form, and lips to the perceptive observer of living humanity.* 
I have been able to prove to myself over the years, in actual Legal cases, that I am more accurate at assessing Race from Skeletal remains than from Looking at living people standing before me.*

Seeing both sides
Where I stand today in the "great race debate" after a decade and a half of pertinent skeletal research is clearly more on the side of the reality of race than on the "race denial" side. ... Morphological characteristics, however, like skin color, hair form, bone traits, eyes, and lips tend to follow geographic boundaries coinciding often with climatic zones. This is not surprising since the selective forces of climate are probably the primary forces of nature that have Shaped human Races with regard not only to Skin color and Hair form but also the Underlying Bony structures of the Nose, Cheekbones, etc.."
*
On political correctness*
Those who believe that the concept of race is valid do not discredit the notion of clines, however. Yet those with the Clinical perspective who believe that races are not real do try to discredit the evidence of skeletal biology. *Why this bias from the "Race Denial" faction? *This bias seems to stem largely from socio-political motivation and Not science at all. For the time being at least, the people in "race denial" are in "reality denial" as well. Their motivation (a positive one) is that they have come to believe that the race concept is socially dangerous. In other words, *they have convinced themselves that race promotes racism. Therefore, they have pushed the Politically Correct Agenda that human races are not biologically real, no matter what the Evidence.*

How can we combat racism if no one is willing to talk about race?"
Consequently, at the beginning of the 21st century, even as a majority of biological anthropologists favor the reality of the race perspective, not one introductory textbook of physical anthropology even presents that perspective as a possibility. In a case as flagrant as this, *we are not dealing with science but rather with blatant, politically motivated censorship.* But, you may ask, are the politically correct actually correct? Is there a relationship between thinking about race and racism?
[.......]​
Gameover #5
`


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## Paul Essien (Nov 28, 2017)

abu afak said:


> *You use NO scientific terms.
> You didn't know what Race was. I defined it.
> Your thought "Neurology" dealt with race and IQ.
> Your posts are total FRAUDS.
> ...


If you think science can settle moral questions you need only look at the debate over climate change to see how wrong such an assumption can be. If you rest your claims on scientific knowledge and then the scientific knowledge changes. You are duty bound to change your ethics and morality.

Science makes progress though discovery and disproof. It tries to knock down its own ideas because disproof is way easier than proof. It loves facts that do not fit because they point to new ideas and discoveries. Guys like you never makes new discoveries that go against its claims.

*Thomas Jefferson in 1787*: Blacks ? Less intelligence, more sex drive, more likely to break the law, less self-control
*Guys like you in 2017* : Blacks ? Less intelligence, more sex drive, more likely to break the law, less self-control
True science would find surprises, it would challenge old ideas, it would deepen our understanding..

You can’t measure how intelligent someone is, because to begin with you would have to be able to define intelligence very specifically and that can’t be done because intelligence, like many words that define brain functions is an umbrella term that describes several properties of thought (communication, reasoning, understanding) working in tandem.

Serial Killer (Ted Bundy) had an IQ off the chart, in the 140's. But would it be correct to say that a guy who used to slit women from their vagina to their neck was intelligent ?

Alfred Binet created IQ test’s to see which children weren’t profiting from the Parisian school system, not so that they could be labelled stupid but so new educational programs could be created to help those children.

I think he was physic because he was afraid that his tests would be misused for nepharious reasons and he could not have been more right, because once the certain people got a hold of it, it took on a whole new meaning.

Most MENSA members I have encountered are idiots when it comes to practical real life skills. Conversely, people living in abject poverty in third world countries devise almost unbelievably complex ways of eking out an existence, and some modicum of dignity, in the midst of dehumanizing conditions. This requires a deep level of intelligence.

I’ve seen a guy operating a sowing machine made out of bicycle parts and metal scrap, oiled with good old red palm oil, working like a champ. 40 year old cars falling apart, put back into function basically with metal scrap.

The most amazing pieces of art made out of all sorts of recycled stuff. Music made with DIY instruments that have such a rich sound you wouldn’t believe the parts never had anything to do with music.

But I’m sure if someone were to put an IQ test in front of them then I’m pretty sure they’d perform poorly.

But in your world they are stupid. Right ? But the fact you could not do what they do, means nothing.

Intelligence itself is very hard to define, whether IQ tests are a good measure of intelligence is hotly debated.

A self proclaimed person of the master race should know better. Right ?



abu afak said:


> Slightly Over Half of all biological/physical anthropologists today believe in the Traditional view that human Races are biologically valid and Real.
> 
> Furthermore, they tend to see nothing wrong in defining and naming the different populations of Homo sapiens. The Other Half of the biological anthropology community believes either that the traditional racial categories for humankind are arbitrary and meaningless, or that at a minimum there are better ways to look at human variation than through the "racial lens."


So to you albino man is not the same race as his parents because he is absolutely white ?

Even though he was born out of a normal woman ?

Hence, albinos are a different race, since they are genetically different than their parents ?

So albinos are a race of beings who are born of different race ?

And these two twins born of the same father and mother a different species ?






There is no objective way to divide living humans into races that is based on biology. Are there three races? Six ? Seven? How do you tell? And where do you draw the lines between them? And why ?

Race is skin deep, at best any two humans are 99.9% genetically the same, according to the Human Genome Project. And even that 0.1% is mostly made up of individual differences. Only 6.3% of that 0.1% comes from differences between races (Lewontin, 1972).

Even Darwin pointed out that despite the sometimes marked differences between populations there is no sign of evolutionary hierarchy. Not only that, he actually put all humans on the same level with animals, from the evolutionary standpoint. A statement that was extremely unpopular back then, but once again on a sociopolitical / religious level only.


abu afak said:


> On political correctness
> 
> Those who believe that the concept of race is valid do not discredit the notion of clines, however. Yet those with the Clinical perspective who believe that races are not real do try to discredit the evidence of skeletal biology. Why this bias from the "Race Denial" faction? This bias seems to stem largely from socio-political motivation and Not science at all. For the time being at least, the people in "race denial" are in "reality denial" as well. Their motivation (a positive one) is that they have come to believe that the race concept is socially dangerous. In other words, they have convinced themselves that race promotes racism. Therefore, they have pushed the Politically Correct Agenda that human races are not biologically real, no matter what the Evidence.


*I have no resistance to accept race as a biological concept. The point is, there is no scientific proof for it. Full stop.
*
But there always has to be at least one mention of “the liberals” or “lefties” or “Political Correctness”

You will never find such mention in serious scientific publications.

We never really drill down to the nuts and bolts that need to be asked of guys like you and you like it that way. Because you never have to actually put you’re ideas out there on the line to be scrutinized.

You can always claim ideological martyr status for being shouted down as being iconoclasts in the public square and pretend that marginalized trash are actually hidden gems of knowledge only you and a select few others can see.

Let’s have the debate.

Let's see what it would actually mean in public policy terms. Let’s see how you intend to address the problems of our time and indeed things you see as problems.

But I don't think you or people who think like you, will because you need a new theory of racism that allows you to separate yourselves from the blue collar stormfronters.


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## bgrouse (Nov 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > They show blacks commit *violent crimes* at *a higher rate* than whites. Like I told you before, if 100/100 blacks are violent criminals and 200 out of 2,000,000 whites are violent criminals (in a country with a population of 2,000,000 whites and 100 blacks), is the average white more violent than the average black?
> ...


I have been, actually. It certainly wasn't a severe or life changing attack, but it did happen. Every single black in the USA could be a violent criminal and some whites would still be able to avoid being attacked by a "black dude." So what were you trying to prove with your question?





> So why are you so scared of black men ?


It's not a matter of fear as much as it is a matter of not wanting worthless negroes leeching off of white society.





> Every person who has sh*t on you in your life has been a white person..
> 
> Tell me when I'm lying ?


You're lying.





> Stories of black harming whites spread farther and quicker because they seem more worse.
> 
> But most crime is black on black. There are black people who harm whites, but whites make sure they live as far away from black people as possible and whites have a system that punishes black ppl more severely should they harm white people
> 
> Whites do most of the crime, so that mean crime is not fought from an intelligent perspective.


Even crime that stays within races requires support from the white-run government. Whites still pay for the treatment of injured negroes regardless of who injures them.


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## bgrouse (Nov 28, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> There is no objective way to divide living humans into races that is based on biology. Are there three races? Six ? Seven? How do you tell? And where do you draw the lines between them? And why ?


It's a clever post, but there's no need to define races absolutely with a thin line or come up with an absolute measure of intelligence to take a good enough measurement. For instance, I feel quite comfortable in saying that sedans are generally faster and more maneuverable than SUVs even though I know there are things like "crossovers" and SUVs designed for speed. Likewise, I know the turd-colored creatures tend to be dumber and more violent than whites. I know they fail in the USA relative to whites and their countries fail relative to white countries.

So you took a negro and mixed it with a white, getting something not particularly smart or stupid and kinda dirt-colored. It doesn't disprove intelligence studies or basic observation of negro cities and countries.


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## bgrouse (Nov 29, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Had to quote this again!
> ...


Hmm...looks like he's making new threads about crap like Martin Luther King. Typical negro, not wanting to finish this discussion, running off to start a new thread now that he's been made to look like a total fool here. He'll rinse and repeat his strategy of copying-and-pasting bullshit positions about race in an effort to win by way of volume. I've seen negroes do this before: they just raise their voices when they're losing an argument to drown out the other person.


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## Paul Essien (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> I have been, actually. It certainly wasn't a severe or life changing attack, but it did happen.


OK. Go on. This should be good for a laugh

Probably something like "_well, ya know this blk guy, think the police said his name was Jamal, came up to me and said......Yo honky, u cracker bitch, gizme yo money ..b4 I smoke yo bitch ass_"


bgrouse said:


> It's not a matter of fear as much as it is a matter of not wanting worthless negroes leeching off of white society.


Right. So if we are so worthless and black men have got under your skin, then what are you going to do about it ?

Or are you just gonna carry on talking tough on the internet ?


bgrouse said:


> It's a clever post, but there's no need to define races absolutely


So if you admitting that you can't define race absolutely  then how can define intelligence in race absolutely, if you can't define race absolutely   ?


bgrouse said:


> with a thin line or come up with an absolute measure of intelligence to take a good enough measurement.


So what is intelligence ?


bgrouse said:


> For instance, I feel quite comfortable in saying that sedans are generally faster and more maneuverable than SUVs even though I know there are things like "crossovers" and SUVs designed for speed.


What kinda point is this ? Speed can be measured.


bgrouse said:


> Likewise, I know the turd-colored creatures tend to be dumber and more violent than whites


How can white people be less violent than black people, when white people have been the most violent people ever to walk this this earth ?


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## Paul Essien (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Hmm...looks like he's making new threads about crap like Martin Luther King. Typical negro, not wanting to finish this discussion, running off to start a new thread now that he's been made to look like a total fool here. He'll rinse and repeat his strategy of copying-and-pasting bullshit positions about race in an effort to win by way of volume. I've seen negroes do this before: they just raise their voices when they're losing an argument to drown out the other person.


You don't argue.

Notice with me I never insult white people. I never say white people are honkey's or crackers. It makes you look weak and over-emotional when you resort to ad homs, but then again you know if you don't resort insults you'll run out of knowledge.

I can just picture you. This is you.

"Blacks are dumb !!"






"Blacks have high crime rate !!"






"Look at Africa !!"






"Blacks sold there own !!"






"Rap music !!"






But hey. You're the superior one white man ? Right ? Why are you getting so worked up about people who you claim are inferior ?

You're getting angry by the same debates you claim you want to have, you realize you're wrong and don't really know what you talking about, so you probably browse stormfront, looking for talking points.

It comes down to this as someone once said, the bottom line is if whites want blacks to stop having so much disdain towards them for UNDERSTANDABLE reasons, then whites have to stop having disdain towards blacks for ILLOGICAL reasons.

.


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
> ...


.
I'm talking to you, but the damage done by whites  is damage done by whites. That's just the way it is. Just because you don't like hearing it doesn't mean you get t fed me this bullshit. I have looked at people as individuals all my life. You can't do anything but that. But when you look at issues  that affect millions of individuals  then your crap gets flushed down the toilet for the shit it is. So then does a president speak for all the people? Or does he speak for himself. We have 2 parties those are groups. Republicans are using so called group identity crap blaming democrats for it when they are the ones who have done it and still want do it while telling everybody how they should not. That's all you are doing Facaltenn. Do we not see men and women as men and women now?  These are groups. How about children do we no longer have a group called children or is all this blowhard shit you talk only related to race and only because e whites are being held accountable for the bull shit they have pulled and keep trying to pull?

The Dred Scott Case, Plessy v Ferguson and many other ruling from the court gave whites rights blacks did not get. And these cases did not signify anything by the individual. You at simply speaking  dumb shit. I can talk to a white person and I see hat person is not racist. but when it comes to policies that have affected millions of individuals authored by whites I will continue to say that whites made law and policy purposefully designed to not allow blacks opportunities because that is what was done. The housing policies did not discriminate against the Williams, they discriminated against blacks. Restrictive covenants still in effect today do not specify individuals, they specify groups. And if we did things your way they still would. You make no sense.

As for Mugabe, your inability to understand global politics has you talking even dumber. Whites colonized South Africa, ruled by military force and dividing the tribes against each other. They stole the land from the people there. .Whites were 0.6 percent of the population but owned 70 percent of the nations most fertile land and you think that's a good thing. Your excuse was the land was undeveloped, so it was fine for whites to invade a nation use military force to subdue the people, killing  thousands of those who were natives of that nation then get the land they lived on. You do so because to you the economy  of zimbabwe we making money due to these ill gotten gains, you think that was so great and want to talk about how evil Mugabe was like the whites who were there we saints. So if I was defending Mugabe, you were defending Apartheid. To you Mugabe ruined a nation but apartheid did not. This is what you are saying whether you want to admit it or not.

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia about Zimbabwe and how whites got land there.

The area today called Zimbabwe (known as Southern Rhodesia from 1895) was selected as a settlement colony by British South African, and Afrikaner colonists from the 1890s onwards, following the subjugation of the Matabele, (Ndebele), and Shona nations by the British South Africa Company (BSAC). The early white settlers came in search of mineral resources, finding deposits of coal, chromium, nickel, platinum, and gold. They also found some of the best farmland in Africa. The central part of Zimbabwe is a plateau which varies in altitude between 900 and 1,500 m (2,950 and 4,900 ft) above sea level. This gives the area a sub-tropical climate which is conducive to European settlement and agricultural practices.[8]

*Over 3000 white soldiers who assisted in the BSAC takeover of the country were given land grants of 1,200 hectares (3,000 acres) or more, and black people living on the land became tenants. Later, Land Apportionment and Tenure Acts reserved extensive low-rainfall areas for black-only tribal-trust lands and high rainfall areas for white ownership, which gave rise to cases of black people being excluded from their own land. White settlers were attracted to Rhodesia by the availability of tracts of prime farmland that could be purchased from the state at low cost. This resulted in a major feature of the Rhodesian economy—the "white farm". The white farm was typically a large (>100 km² (>38.6 mi²)) mechanised estate, owned by a white family and employing hundreds of black people.* Many white farms provided housing, schools, and clinics for black employees and their families. At the time of independence in 1980, over 40% of the country's farming land was contained within 5,000 white farms. It was claimed that these farms provided 40% of the country's GDP and up to 60% of its foreign earnings.[9] Major export products included tobacco, beef, sugar, cotton, and maize.

White people in Zimbabwe - Wikipedia

And so this was fine with you. It's not evil, and it was a show of how great whitey is. Whitey built Zimbabwe and when he left it for bacls they just ruined it. Not that whitey killed a bunch of blacks while invading the country, then gave the killers 3,000 acres apiece , or how they reserved all the high rainfall lands for whites and removed the blacks or that they made laws to give whites land and made the blacks on that land they already lived on tenants to whites, oh no, none of that happened. Zimbabwe was just a success that Mugabe ruined by taking the and from those poor innocent white farmers.

Try your best to not ever talk to me about Africa again until you educate yourself completely about what has gone on there..


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

Yarddog said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Of course you can't see it. You've never had to see it. I have and Trump is trying to turn the clock back. What you can't see doesn't really change that.


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

DOTR said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



I don't give a damn of you think your ass Is the greatest white man alive the fact is that you white people got what you have because you made the rules and excluded others from the competition. So if you feel  good about that, I really don't give a rats patooie. Because you amount to less than 30 percent of all Americans.


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Stop trying. I'm far smarter than you.


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



This was a hypothetical idiot. Just like your per capita nonsense is based upon a hypothetical


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



The same old dumb shit  All the time.

100 blacks
1 back college graduate.
1 black business
20 jobs.
80 people going to other businesses looking for work.
.
Multiplied by 5
500 blacks
5 black college graduates
5 black businesses
100 jobs
400 blacks going to other businesses looking for work.

But you see the reality here is that 2 million back businesses exist. And if we multiply this by 5 that is 10 million black owned businesses and despite this fine attempt at retardation, that will create more jobs, black unemployment will be reduced and by much more that your retardation allows you to believe.
.


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said: ↑
Hmm...looks like he's making new threads about crap like Martin Luther King. Typical negro, not wanting to finish this discussion, running off to start a new thread now that he's been made to look like a total fool here. He'll rinse and repeat his strategy of copying-and-pasting bullshit positions about race in an effort to win by way of volume. I've seen negroes do this before: they just raise their voices when they're losing an argument to drown out the other person.

And why exactly would a run from a dumb ass like you? .

Typical white boy, you need help from others. In this case you got your boy facaltenn siding with you because neither of you can out debate me on your own. And eve he destroyed your stupidity when he made mention of how math can be twisted to mean anything. That's what per capita is. That's why I like dealing with the total numbers. But you are not man enough to do that so you fall back on a mathematical equation then claim that equation means whites commit fewer crimes.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 29, 2017)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



You ducked every on-topic question I posed to you and chose to continue defend the off-topic indefensible Mugabe. Don't think there's a conversation to be had. If you get to urge to fill me in on your answers to my questions, I'd love to continue.


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## PredFan (Nov 29, 2017)

IM2 said:


> For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> 
> What we call racism by standard has been a general belief by whites not based on anything but a shared ideal that certain people are inferior to whites, What is referred to as black racism is the angry response to people who tell us we are inferior.
> 
> ...



Your rant is based solely on a boatload of false assumptions. I can’t take you seriously.


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

PredFan said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > For too many times here I have argued with mods about the content here in this section. Far too many times I get responses back with false equivalences of equal racism between blacks and whites. I think we need to understand that there is a difference here and an important distinction needs to be made relative to this matter.
> ...



Nothing false has been said. That's why you can't produce a counter argument.


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## PredFan (Nov 29, 2017)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Oh I can produce a counter argument. It’s just that your post is so full of bull shit I don’t know where to start. You would never ever admit it anyway so why waste my time. In fact several people have already done it.


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## bgrouse (Nov 29, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


80 / 100 is the same rate as 400 / 500: *80%*.

Explain to me again how 80% is different from 80%.

Stupid shitskin.


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## bgrouse (Nov 29, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > I have been, actually. It certainly wasn't a severe or life changing attack, but it did happen.
> ...


Nah, negro came up to me and hit me for no reason, then dragged its knuckles away.

I'm not convinced it was able to communicate verbally.





> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a matter of fear as much as it is a matter of not wanting worthless negroes leeching off of white society.
> ...


Who says I was going to do anything? Negroes can be a problem just like vermin overpopulation. If the human government refuses to do anything about it, it won't go away. Our government goes as far as to protect and breed negroes for more votes.





> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > It's a clever post, but there's no need to define races absolutely
> ...


It's answered rather concisely in my post.





> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > with a thin line or come up with an absolute measure of intelligence to take a good enough measurement.
> ...


So which one is faster? Is a crossover a type of car or is it just something that's half sedan, half SUV? Where does one end and the other begin?





> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Likewise, I know the turd-colored creatures tend to be dumber and more violent than whites
> ...



First step is whites, unlike dumb negroes, understand tense.








Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm...looks like he's making new threads about crap like Martin Luther King. Typical negro, not wanting to finish this discussion, running off to start a new thread now that he's been made to look like a total fool here. He'll rinse and repeat his strategy of copying-and-pasting bullshit positions about race in an effort to win by way of volume. I've seen negroes do this before: they just raise their voices when they're losing an argument to drown out the other person.
> ...


Right.





> Why are you getting so worked up about people who you claim are inferior ?
> 
> You're getting angry by the same debates you claim you want to have, you realize you're wrong and don't really know what you talking about, so you probably browse stormfront, looking for talking points.
> 
> ...


I want negroes out of the country, or in a zoo. Then it won't matter if they have disdain for me.

Why do I use names? Because certain idiots reply like idiots, such as for example listing events from 2013 to explain away events from 1950-2000. Do I respond by pointing out that something in 2013 can't have caused something in 1994? I'd rather laugh and call the guy an idiot because very little can be done to make such a negro smarter. Some things are lost causes, so what good would it do to explain it without name-calling? Anyone not totally retarded sees the negro dumbass for what it is and anyone on its side is hopelessly clueless. So I just laugh and call them names.

Read my signature for some negro gems to see why I call them names.


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## Yarddog (Nov 29, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...




How is he turning back the clock?


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## Spare_change (Nov 29, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Based on your OP, I'd say it's too late.


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## Yarddog (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...




The only thing that stops some black people from being successful in the US is that they have been taught from both sides that they cant be. Never the less there are millions of black people who contradict all the hateful things you've posted. There is a reason there are black racists around here. Maybe try not being part of the cycle, 'you reap what you sow' - is what they say


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## emilynghiem (Nov 29, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



I am trying to figure out from your msgs back and forth
what IM2 is REALLY trying to compare and express.
NOTE: bgrouse is right, that the ratio should remain the same
if the math is kept proportional.

A.
This is what I am guessing that IM2 means
* if the ratio of Blacks to Whites
is 1:5 where there are 5 times as many Whites than Blacks
* then if the ratio of Black businesses to White businesses is ALSO 1:5
then for
2 million Black businesses there should be 10 million White businesses
if this was proportional to the population.

I think IM2 is trying to point out
that the significance and impact of
"2 million Black businesses"
is the EQUIVALENT of
"10 million White businesses"

And what bgrouse is saying:
if you try to compare
"10 million BLACK businesses"
then keeping the same ratio would mean
"50 million WHITE businesses"
(so this NOT the same as comparing
2 million to 10 million Black businesses)

B. But there is more to what IM2 is trying to drive at.

I am guessing that the point is
if we respected the 2 million Black businesses
as the EQUIVALENT of 10 million White businesses,
then having that much concentrated power
and interest is GREATER than just "2 million in White businesses".
It actually EQUATES to 5 times more capital, more work
potential, etc. closer to what 10 million means
in terms of White businesses. 

But because this sounds negative (as if comparing
Black and White businesses by "culture"
instead of comparing them by RATIO of populations)
by saying that it takes only 2 million Black businesses
to be the "equivalent of 10 million White businesses"
that's why I THINK IM2 worded it in
TERMS of 10 million "Black" businesses --
to make it more CLEAR the point was to
compare RATIOs not color or culture.

*The point it seems he was TRYING to make
was the 2 million businesses are the
equivalent of 10 million, because the ratio
of Blacks to Whites is 1:5*

He just kept the word BLACK in
because he was trying to express the
true power and potential in the "BLACK
business community." He wasn't trying
to distort the ratio, but apply it proportionally.

Do these points and explanations sound fair and accurate enough?
Thanks!


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## Yarddog (Nov 29, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




Damn, ......   your hired!


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## IM2 (Nov 29, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



wHa I was doing was 


emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



No.


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## bgrouse (Nov 29, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


It started with his inability/refusal to accept/understand per capita statistics, or rates. Instead of doing what any semi-intelligent white school kid would be able to figure out and just dividing crimes by population, first for whites and then for blacks, and arriving at two rates that can be compared, he goes the opposite way and starts MULTIPLYING instead of dividing to prove some sort of a point. The reason he thinks the rate would change if he multiplies instead of divides is that even the multiplication process is too complex for his inferior negro brain, so he remembers to multiply a few of the numbers, but forgets one, so his "rate" changes.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


So he's saying if blacks were equal to whites, blacks would be equal to whites? OK, but they're not equal. Blacks are dumber/more violent/etc... That's what leads to racial crime stat inequalities, making those rates different.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

Yarddog said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Yarddog said:
> ...


Ask IM2. He thinks the 2013 Detroit bankruptcy caused Detroit to become a shithole between 1950 and 2000. It's Trump's secret time machine that he used to fuck up blacks.


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



No, that is what you think. I can go back to a 1940 something study by the University of Michigan that points out how the problem began then.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Yarddog said:
> ...


I discussed statistics from 1950 to 2000 and you tried to explain it away by providing a "cause" that occurred after 2001 (in 2008-2013). Do you understand how stupid you are?


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Emily does not speak for me. We are equal to whites. We are not dumber than whites and we are less violent than whites. I am saying t hat if blacks and whites had everything the same blacks would not come fucking close to the crime rate whites have today. It would be far less. Because it's 2.5 times less now..


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


Yeah, like the same intellects and cultures. Too bad you don't.





> blacks would not come fucking close to the crime rate whites have today. It would be far less. Because it's 2.5 times less now..


So what is the black crime rate?


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Dear bgrouse
Thanks for sharing but I question how you are judging people:

So if men are statistically more prone to violence than women,
does that make men inferior to women? 
What?

Just because one person makes a ratio or wording error in
presenting a comparison, are you going to use that as justification
for why you judge and demean a whole group of people based on
skin color or race?

And you WONDER why people argue that is racist against Blacks?

I can see why you both talk past each other
if you can't get past this initial stumbling block.

I was also stumbling all over what you and IM2 were
both trying to say. I still try to see and understand you
both as INDIVIDUALS regardless of either your white/black backgrounds
or your VIEWS of either black or white or history between the two.

If I can see through this and try to understand
and hear you, I'm sure both of you can.

I'm sorry you both have double barriers between you
that is skewing your message.

Whatever "greater violence" or "lesser intelligence" that you attribute to blacks,
that social disparity can be overcome, wherever it is coming from.

We don't have to agree why the disparity is there in the first place,
we can still set up equal access to education, training and mentorship
so people can be empowered to whatever degree they wish to seek,
and that would solve the problems wherever they are coming from.

Each person is different anyway, so what they need to solve
their problems or setbacks regardless of source or cause,
is going to be just as different, as unique as each person is.

You may find it easier to group and judge people "collectively"
but solving ANY of the problems you attribute more to blacks
is going to take INDIVIDUAL empowerment and mentorship
to bring out the leadership and business skills in each person.

I have never been able to understand or work with anyone
by labelling them as a group. I have to hear where each person
is coming from individually to even know where to begin
on building a relationship with that person.

Thank you for sharing your honest personal opinions
and perceptions. And I hope that through open honest sharing,
some of these barriers can begin to come down and open up
even more informative and constructive discussion.

Yours truly, Emily


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Funny how I don't see any stats with any dates about Detroitt by you in these threads.


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...



What about the ratio of businesses, IM2

Is your point that 2 million businesses
are the EQUIVALENT of 10 million if 
"blacks and whites had everything the same"


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Less than the white one.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


I consider intellectual inferiority where it conflicts with one's ability to live in or run a modern society. Male violence may be something that interferes with this, but I've seen no conclusive evidence, so I'm not sure.





> Just because one person makes a ratio or wording error in
> presenting a comparison, are you going to use that as justification
> for why you judge and demean a whole group of people based on
> skin color or race?


He's an idiot who says stupid shit all the time. It's not just one time that he did it.





> And you WONDER why people argue that is racist against Blacks?
> 
> I can see why you both talk past each other
> if you can't get past this initial stumbling block.
> ...


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Prove it.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You even REPLIED to one such post in *89% of all Crime in NYC Nonwhite*, post #58, you idiot!
Though I was talking about *Detroit*.


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Dear IM2 and bgrouse 

Do you really want to compare white vs black crime rates?

What about men vs women with rates of crime or violence? 

EX: Are men more violent than women?

The U.S. Department of Justice sponsored a National Crime Victimization Study in 2007. This evaluation found that *75.6 percent of all offenders were male and only 20.1 percent were female. *In the remaining cases, the victim wasn't able to identify the gender of the offender. According to these results, *men violent crimes more than three times as often as women*

When you are done "boxing it out" over white vs black,
if your eyes aren't too bruised and swollen shut,
maybe we can look at the stats on men vs. women and debate that next!

Cheers, fight clean, and protect yourself at all times!


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


I already did. So did others. The evidence is overwhelming and conclusive.





> What about men vs women with rates of crime or violence?
> 
> EX: Are men more violent than women?
> 
> ...


Feel free to start a thread.


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



No. I am saying that if we had the same number of people blacks would have at east 1 million businesses.  It is straight forward and easy to understand. It was a hypothetical. But grouse after spending most if his time here arguing about blacks being 13 percent of seething and there are 5 times more whites and if thee were 100,000 of this car and 20,000 of that one to excuse the fact whites commit more crimes and mote violent crimes. . So I turned it around on him to allow him to understand exactly how things would be if blacks really had 5 times the number of people.

Emily you come in here niave and you want to see the good in both sides. But one side here is no good. I'm not in the business of catching bees. Everybody  I know who has tried that always gets stung.  There are far too may whites out there who don't hold the views of  these bigots. This is what  have learned because there is no such thing as looking at one person as a group. This individualism crap the guys are taking about is just a ruse whereby they only tell people of color to  look at whites as individuals while they look at everybody else as a group.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You replied to the black business sample I provided with numbers that resulted in the same unemployment rate despite saying earlier that the rate would change, revealing your inability to understand something as simple as rates.





> Emily you come in here niave and you want to see the good in both sides. But one side here is no good. I'm not in the business of catching bees. Everybody  I know who has tried that always gets stung.  There are far too may whites out there who don't hold the views of  these bigots. This is what  have learned because there is no such thing as looking at one person as a group. This individualism crap the guys are taking about is just a ruse whereby they only tell people of color to  look at whites as individuals while they look at everybody else as a group.


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



I know all about that. But this is the race ad racism section. There is a law and justice section Emily.

Because the issue here is not just about crime. But crime is all bigots like bgrouse have because he cannot defend the damage caused  by whites racism over 3- centuries in this nation of which he is a beneficiary of.  The OP of this thread was not about crime but about how there are different experiences people have had in this  country and how we cannot just make everything the same when everything has not been the same for all people. But for some here it doesn't matter what the thread is about you are going to hear the same old song. Blacks are stupid and violent.. And they get to troll like that no matter he thread until the thread gets close and they end up getting what they want.


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...



No you didn't.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


It's right here you idiot!



IM2 said:


> The same old dumb shit  All the time.
> 
> *100 *blacks
> 1 back college graduate.
> ...



80/100 is the same rate as 400/500.


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Thanks for explaining and clarifying in detail IM2 

I don't think bgrouse problem is "individualism" per se
but closed-minded, fear based, and biased, 
and not being able to see past that bias.

So this "bias" gets applied and skews EVERYTHING that is said or looked out through that filter,
not just "individualism" as you pointed out.
Once someone cannot forgive something from the past, or has fear/ill will toward someone, 
it gets "projected" onto everything and everyone else they look at in the present and future.

I understand and agree with your criticism in terms of a "double standard" type "ruse with individualism"
I call it a BIAS that affects ANY system that person uses or applies to describe things,
not just "individualism".

I think you also called out such a bias as PREJUDICE?

Either way, I just find it skews people's judgment in general.
So whatever system they use, including "but not limited to" individualism 
(or collective generalizations), gets biased and skewed.
If it were a "ruse" that implies it is consciously chosen,
but I question if everyone really knows they are doing this.
if they are so convinced they are right, they don't see it as a bias.

Yes I am idealistic which you call naive.
If there is danger involved in giving people freedom to correct themselves,
it's that they will more often hang themselves with their own ropes!
Thus, I find people are more a danger to themselves.
That's why I prefer to we give each other more room, not less,
instead of fighting to dominate the same space.
Two black eyes don't help see any clearer.
And four black eyes, ouch!


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse
Sorry to call you "closeminded" if you are still trying to clarify
and communicate what you mean here.  I meant regarding
your "set ways" on how you insist on seeing IM2 as dumb or incapable,
especially based on race/color, which I found to project a fixed personal bias.
I still hope that will change, and didn't mean to discourage or demean you for where we disagree.
My apologies if I insulted you personally in criticizing your views I felt were inaccurate.



bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



OK so given the job ratio is
20:100, 100:500
and the blacks outside these jobs is
80:100, 400:500

And the population ratio
is 1:5 for blacks:whites

My understanding is that IM2 means
if blacks:whites were EQUAL NOT 1:5
2 million businesses are the equivalent of 10 million
and
80 people are the equivalent of 400

You are saying that to keep the ratio the same,
then 400 people is out of 500.
That's accurate in keeping the job ratio the same.

But it does not negate the point that
80 "would be the equivalent of 400"
(and 100 would be the equivalent of 500)
where IM2 was just making a comparison
with the POPULATION ratio, changing from 1:5 to equal,
and expressing that by multiplying by 5 to represent
the "equivalent" numbers if the POPULATION was equalized.

I generally get what IM2 means, though I disagree
with expressing it this way that resulted in confusion and distraction, losing the point and purpose.


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Well the main problem with your post is that things are not the way you want to paint the picture.
Your picture
100 blacks
1 college
1 black business
20 jobs.
80 blacks going to other jobs looking for work.

Multiplied by 5
*500 *blacks
5 black college graduates
5 black businesses
100 jobs
*400 *blacks going to other businesses looking for work.

You are sooooo dumb that  you actually  think that's the rate.

But it is not.
This is.
100 blacks
14 college
1 black business
72 backs already working
28 left
20 jobs
8 unemployed

Blacks in college 14%
Black labor participation rate is about 72 oercent.
Black unemployment as of October 2015 7.5 percent.

Multiplied by 5
500 blacks
70 college
5 black businesses
360 blacks already working
500 jobs available
140 jobs
Blacks get 140 jobs and 360 go to other unemployed individuals in said community.

More jobs created in the black community, black labor participation rises.
Unemployment is cut by 1/5th=1.5%
5 times more blacks are going to post secondary training=70%

You did not present the rates.

You see when I did the hypothetical it was based upon real numbers.


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## Windparadox (Nov 30, 2017)

`
`
I am not and absolutely refuse to accept any culpability or guilt, for the actions done before my time. I do not believe in the Abrahamic concept of the "sins of my father."  Once people shed themselves of this archaic idea, they will see the absolute folly, if not stupidity, of dredging up the past to excuse the present.
`


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Dear IM2 and bgrouse 
I think you are coming at this from two
different formats.

If you take your NEW set of breakdown %
and multiply all of those NEW numbers by 5,
the ratio between them DOES stay the same.

That's what bgrouse wanted to make sure
you followed.

And you did preserve the same ratios.
And it doesn't affect the point you are
trying to make that the numbers of Blacks
are the equivalent of "5 times those numbers"

And YES, that includes keeping the same
ratio throughout the given set.
So bgrouse point about keeping the
ratio the same throughout IS included.


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> bgrouse
> Sorry to call you "closeminded" if you are still trying to clarify
> and communicate what you mean here.  I meant regarding
> your "set ways" on how you insist on seeing IM2 as dumb or incapable,
> ...



You don't get it Emily. This is not about a jobs ratio. Or any ratio. You are confusing yourself for no reason. .


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

Windparadox said:


> `
> `
> I am not and absolutely refuse to accept any culpability or guilt, for the actions done before my time. I do not believe in the Abrahamic concept of the "sins of my father."  Once people shed themselves of this archaic idea, they will see the absolute folly, if not stupidity, of dredging up the past to excuse the present.
> `



Yes and no Windparadox
No we are not legally responsible for things done by other generations
to which we are linked by "label" by "race or association."

but as a society, if we do not RESOLVE the issues handed down to us
from the past, if we don't learn and teach from history,
the same problems REPEAT and become OUR problems.

We still face crime problems in the Black and Native communities 
that end up affecting the rest of the public.
So these DO become OUR responsibility to fix in this lifetime.

We inherit both advantages and disadvantages from the past
that pass on and affect our present and future generations.

What we do today with OUR relationships and the problems and solutions within our reach and control IS our part of social responsibility. And yes SOME of this DOES reflect debts, damages, or problems from the past.
When these repeat in our lives and relations, when it costs us time and tax dollars
until these problems are solved, that is for us to address and do something about.


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

Windparadox said:


> `
> `
> I am not and absolutely refuse to accept any culpability or guilt, for the actions done before my time. I do not believe in the Abrahamic concept of the "sins of my father."  Once people shed themselves of this archaic idea, they will see the absolute folly, if not stupidity, of dredging up the past to excuse the present.
> `



You benefitted from that past, ad damages from that past have o been fixed in the present while you still benefit. Too bad for you we don't and are not just dredging up the past.  Charlottesville was very much in 2017. And so if those people live and work among us, why are you so stupid as to think its just all in the past?


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## emilynghiem (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse
> ...



I am referring to the sets that were posted.
A. first there was this set which
concerned jobs and blacks outside those jobs:

Your picture
100 blacks
1 college
1 black business
20 jobs.
80 blacks going to other jobs looking for work.

Multiplied by 5
*500 *blacks
5 black college graduates
5 black businesses
100 jobs
*400 *blacks going to other businesses looking for work.

B. Then you offered this set:
100 blacks
14 college
1 black business
72 backs already working
28 left
20 jobs
8 unemployed

Blacks in college 14%
Black labor participation rate is about 72 oercent.
Black unemployment as of October 2015 7.5 percent.

Multiplied by 5
500 blacks
70 college
5 black businesses
360 blacks already working
500 jobs available
140 jobs
Blacks get 140 jobs and 360 go to other unemployed individuals in said community.

in both cases, when you multiply by 5
that still preserves the ratio between the numbers.
And preserving the ratio does not negate
the point you were making by multiplying by 5.

At this point, I think 
You were arguing about bgrouse's CONTENT
and BG was arguing about your FORMAT
(where I said the ratio was preserved
and didn't negate the point you expressed)

Now, if we can get past the FORMAT
and get back to the CONTENT, we can
argue over something instead of nothing!


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> Windparadox said:
> 
> 
> > `
> ...



I can only shake my head. We have a person talking about the sins of their fathers which they keep committing themselves. It is not their fathers crime anymore it's theirs and they are legally responsible for it.. For the past 30 years blacks in Chicago have asked for the funds so they could put  programs and jobs in place so their communities would be safer.

*How Chicago's White Donor Class Distorts City Policy*

Chicago’s 2015 mayoral race was one of the most expensive in the nation’s history, with big donors playing an outsized role in financing both candidates’ campaigns. In fact, over 90 percent of the money raised by the two major candidates came from donors giving more than $1,000, and more than half (52%) came from donors outside of the city.[1] Both the Chicago mayoral and council elections are primarily financed by white, male donors who don’t reflect the racial and class diversity of the city’s residents. The experience in Chicago is emblematic of national elections, where a small cadre of white major donors—.01 percent—accounted for over 40 percent of all campaign contributions.[2]

*New research provides disturbing evidence that the financing of our elections by a small group of big donors has very real consequences in terms of the public policies that get enacted.[3] In fact, when the preferences of the donor class diverge with those of the average voter, it is the donor class’s preferences that win. But donors and voters don’t always agree. For example, while 34% of non-donors living in Chicago support the Bowles-Simpson austerity plan, 62% of Chicago donors do. The preferences of the white, male and rich donor class diverge strongly from ordinary Chicagoans but it’s their agenda that’s being implemented.* The solution is a robust public financing system that empowers the more diverse small donor pool and brings more diverse voices to the political system.

www.demos.org/publication/how-chicagos-white-donor-class-distorts-city-policy

_This means that programs necessary to non white communities are ignored.. Programs and opportunities that would reduce the violence and crime. But everybody wans to badmouth Chicago for the shootings and make all kinds of racist claims about "those" neighbohoods._

The report’s key findings:
•The 2015 mayoral election was dominated by big money, with candidates raising more than 92% of their funds from donors giving $1,000 or more.
•These big donors are disproportionately white. Though whites make up 39% of the population of Chicago, they make up 88% of donors giving more than $1,000. While only 6% of Emanuel’s donors were people of color, 39% of Garcia’s donors were.
•Chicago donors are overwhelmingly high-income. Though only 15% of Chicagoans make more than $100,000, 63% of donors did and 74% of those giving more than $1,000 did.
*•The donor class is more supportive of budget cuts than average Chicagoans and more opposed to policies that would bolster opportunity.*
•In the council races there were also deep disparities. In these races, 79% of donors were men, 82% were white and 54% had an income over $100,000.
•Only five overwhelmingly white wards accounted for 13 percent of Chicago’s population, but 42 percent of donors to the Chicago mayoral and aldermanic races. 

Note the underlined information. 


In 2012, three political scientists performed a survey of wealthy Chicagoans (called the Survey of Economically Successful Americans, or SESA) and compared their preferences to those of the general population. Those surveyed had a median wealth of $7.5 million and two-thirds of them were political donors. [11] *The authors use the sample to examine the policy preferences of the wealthy in general, but given that the survey was Chicago-based it offers insights into how the donor class influences policy. As the table shows, the wealthy are far less likely to support a living wage and the government ensuring a decent standard of living.*

While more than three-quarters of the general public agree that the government should “make sure everyone who wants to go to college can do so,” only 28% of the wealthy agree. While nearly nine in 10 average Americans agree that the government should spend whatever necessary to ensure all children attend a good public school, only 35% of the rich agree.

Although the questions are not identical to the SESA survey, a poll of Illinois residents finds that only 16 percent favor cuts to K-12 education, and less than a quarter support cuts to programs for poor people.[12] Only 13 percent of Illinois residents support cuts to programs for those with mental health problems.[13] There are deep divides between the donor class and the general public. The current path Chicago is following, with cuts to mental health services, infrastructure and public schools, is responsive to the preferences of the donor class, not average Chicagoans. Chicago has closed 49 schools, predominantly in black neighborhoods.

_Still today they have not got the help they have been asking for during the past 30 years. Thousands have died and millions have sat outside of this city in judgement. The sins of the fathers keep getting repeated._


----------



## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...



Now this is what I originally posted. It mentioned more than jobs

Since whites have 5 times the population and we want to make that an issue let’s start multiplying by 5. *Blacks have over 2 million businesses right now, let’s multiply that by 5 and then see what the outcome will be. Now there are 10 million black owned businesses and more jobs in the black community.. Let’s reduce our unemployment rate by 5 to 2.6 percent. Blacks live at a 24 percent rate of poverty lets reduce that times 5 to make it 4.5 percent. Funny how you guys can only multiply when it comes to crimes.* Lets keep multiplying folks.

* The black economy now grows to 6.5 trillion instead of the 1.3 trillion we have now, We all have 5 times the amount of money we can spend and have earned. What happens them? All kinds of community development that’s what. Now property values increase in the black community and because of that we have more money in our schools. So now let’s multiply the number of blacks who go to college by 5 there are now 8.5 million blacks in college.* This increase in population and jobs lowers the unemployment rate so you have fewer blacks on government assistance because they have stable employment. Youth crime is reduced because you have facilities and jobs available for them in their immediate communities. *So then what happens to crime then if we do this, it reduces itself by 5 from 26 percent to 5.2 percent. Why? because the factors that create crime are reduced, so then crime reduces itself.
*
This was a hypothetical based on current figures. Jobs really had little to do with the post as it was abut an overall difference in community outcomes which he chose to ignore . He made up some numbers not based on anything thinking he was proving some kind of point. There is really nothing to argue about. If blacks had the same population as whites this is what would happen. Maybe not the exact same numbers but the constant failure this fool wants declare will be would certainly not be the case..


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## Windparadox (Nov 30, 2017)

emilynghiem said:


> Yes and no Windparadox
> No we are not legally responsible for things done by other generations
> to which we are linked by "label" by "race or association."
> but as a society, if we do not RESOLVE the issues handed down to us
> ...


`
`
That's your opinion, which has no greater weight than mine. I do not agree with yours nor will I ever and vice versa I reckon.  So long as people feel obligated by outdated and archaic myths, we will be chained down by them.  Not me however.
`


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

Windparadox said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Yes and no Windparadox
> ...



You are in chains, You are chained down by lies.


----------



## Paul Essien (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> .
> 
> Why do I use names? Because certain idiots reply like idiots, such as for example listing events from 2013 to explain away events from 1950-2000. Do I respond by pointing out that something in 2013 can't have caused something in 1994? I'd rather laugh and call the guy an idiot because very little can be done to make such a negro smarter. Some things are lost causes, so what good would it do to explain it without name-calling? Anyone not totally retarded sees the negro dumbass for what it is and anyone on its side is hopelessly clueless. So I just laugh and call them names.
> 
> Read my signature for some negro gems to see why I call them names.


So why resort to the internet ? Why don't you go out on the street and call black men names to their face ? Surely that would be more effective ?


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


It's a sample situation used to illustrate rates you dumb shitskin. I didn't say those were real numbers.





> But it is not.
> This is.
> 100 blacks
> 14 college
> ...


There's one problem with your "ratio." 140/20 isn't 5, moron. So I guess 40 jobs magically appeared out of nowhere and made blacks more productive?



> More jobs created in the black community, black labor participation rises.
> Unemployment is cut by 1/5th=1.5%
> 5 times more blacks are going to post secondary training=70%
> 
> ...


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


The same reason I don't come up to a gorilla and make fun of it.


----------



## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



I'm far more intelligent  than you will ever be. You're nothing but a white boy loser who uses the internet to say things about blacks you are tooo scared to say to a back mas face. I short, you're a punk ass bitch. Now tell me how you can shoot me like you having a gun makes you a tough guy..


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## IM2 (Nov 30, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



Idiot. There were 500 jobs.  Based on the black labor participation rate of 72 percent, it would men that 360 blacks were already working. That would leave 140 blacks with no jobs who got hired out of the 500 jobs at those black businesses.  I know you are a dumb fuck, but this is pretty simple math.

Quit while you still got your manhood boy. Because this is what I originally posted. It mentioned more than jobs

Since whites have 5 times the population and we want to make that an issue let’s start multiplying by 5. *Blacks have over 2 million businesses right now, let’s multiply that by 5 and then see what the outcome will be. Now there are 10 million black owned businesses and more jobs in the black community.. Let’s reduce our unemployment rate by 5 to 2.6 percent. Blacks live at a 24 percent rate of poverty lets reduce that times 5 to make it 4.5 percent. Funny how you guys can only multiply when it comes to crimes.* Lets keep multiplying folks.

* The black economy now grows to 6.5 trillion instead of the 1.3 trillion we have now, We all have 5 times the amount of money we can spend and have earned. What happens them? All kinds of community development that’s what. Now property values increase in the black community and because of that we have more money in our schools. So now let’s multiply the number of blacks who go to college by 5 there are now 8.5 million blacks in college.* This increase in population and jobs lowers the unemployment rate so you have fewer blacks on government assistance because they have stable employment. Youth crime is reduced because you have facilities and jobs available for them in their immediate communities. *So then what happens to crime then if we do this, it reduces itself by 5 from 26 percent to 5.2 percent. Why? because the factors that create crime are reduced, so then crime reduces itself.*

Now shut up.


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## bgrouse (Nov 30, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Humans use tools to make their work easier. I realize tool usage is not as highly respected among apes like you, except perhaps if it's a simpler tool, like a thrown turd.






IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


And where did they come come from? Where are they (or at least 100 jobs, 1/5th of 500) in the scenario with 100 negroes?





> Based on the black labor participation rate of 72 percent, it would men that 360 blacks were already working. That would leave 140 blacks with no jobs who got hired out of the 500 jobs at those black businesses.  I know you are a dumb fuck, but this is pretty simple math.


Yeah, it's real simple. Just pretend negroes become more productive because you decided to play a multiplication game. Of course, we all know that when negroes multiply, we get Apefreaka. When negroes moved into Detroit (now Detoilet), things turned to shit. But hey, since we're pretending, let's go all out and pretend stuff like Detoilet doesn't happen!





> Quit while you still got your manhood boy. Because this is what I originally posted. It mentioned more than jobs
> 
> Since whites have 5 times the population and we want to make that an issue let’s start multiplying by 5. *Blacks have over 2 million businesses right now, let’s multiply that by 5 and then see what the outcome will be. Now there are 10 million black owned businesses and more jobs in the black community.. Let’s reduce our unemployment rate by 5 to 2.6 percent.
> 
> ...


Obviously nothing I say will get you to understand how rates work. Could you at least explain why a growing negro population doesn't really work in practice?

_Between 1950 and 2000:_

_Detroit's overall population decreased 49%, from 1,849,668 to 951,270_
_Detroit's White population decreased 93%, from 1,545,847 to 116,599_
_Detroit's Black population increased 159% from 303,721 to 787,687_
_Detroit's criminal homicide rate increased from 582%, from 6.1 to 41.6 per 100,000 residents annually_
_Detroit's robbery rate rose from 596%, from 125 to 870 per 100,000 residents annually _

They had it all! Less whitey oppressing them. A more than doubled negro population. So why did it all go to shit? And try to come up with a better answer than something that happened in 2013!


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## Paul Essien (Dec 1, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> The same reason I don't come up to a gorilla and make fun of it.


So you're admitting that a black man would kick your ass ?

But you're the superior one..aren't you white man ? (lol) Why would u so scared of a black man ?.


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## IM2 (Dec 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



Which African nation was not colonized by whites?


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## IM2 (Dec 1, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...



You are ignorant. Your per capita argument is only used by fucked up retards who don't want to admit whites have a greater problem with crime than everyone else.

Your numbers on Detroit ignores the auto industry leaving and the white mayors and governors that controlled the city and state for most of those years.  You cherry pick things to try proving something that does not exist. White supremacy is a fantasy mother fucker. You are basically an insecure punk sss bitch hiding behind a computer. You're a loser, white boy. Just face it. you've lived your life and you wasted it. You're a dumb ass. Plain and simple.

You ask a bonehead question, but Atlanta is thriving, yet all you can talk about is Detroit. You are a mindless prick taking stupid. Save it for stormfront where the rest of you losers can whine about being white.


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## IM2 (Dec 1, 2017)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Taz said:
> ...



I thank no white man. I go nowhere.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 1, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Which African nations were fine before colonization? Fine by what metric?
If they suck for the next 1000 years, is it still whitey's fault?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 1, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



*You are ignorant.
*
That's funny, coming from a guy who doesn't understand per capita.
*
Your per capita argument is only used by fucked up retards who don't want to admit whites have a greater problem with crime than everyone else.
*
Especially the whites who live near large numbers of blacks, eh?


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## bgrouse (Dec 1, 2017)

Paul Essien said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > The same reason I don't come up to a gorilla and make fun of it.
> ...


Some would, certainly.





> But you're the superior one..aren't you white man ?


Yes.





> (lol) Why would u so scared of a black man ?.


Who says I'm scared? I'm intelligent enough to avoid the negro or, if necessary, pack a gun. Your degenerate negro brain just can't comprehend the idea that superiority can be measured by something other than the end of a fist.


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## Asclepias (Dec 1, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > bgrouse said:
> ...


I say youre scared. You would get your ass kicked by any Black man over the age of 16. You need a gun to defend your weakness.


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## bgrouse (Dec 1, 2017)

IM2 said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


The shitskin just can't comprehend what a rate is or why they're used...





> Your numbers on Detroit ignores the auto industry leaving and the white mayors and governors that controlled the city and state for most of those years.  You cherry pick things to try proving something that does not exist. White supremacy is a fantasy mother fucker. You are basically an insecure punk sss bitch hiding behind a computer. You're a loser, white boy. Just face it. you've lived your life and you wasted it. You're a dumb ass. Plain and simple.
> 
> You ask a bonehead question, but Atlanta is thriving, yet all you can talk about is Detroit. You are a mindless prick taking stupid. Save it for stormfront where the rest of you losers can whine about being white.


I ignored the weather and the phases of the moon, too. What's your point? That the auto industry leaving and the white governors forced the negroes to rape/murder/rob?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 1, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



*they werent men enough to deal with kids. 
*
They dealt with the 6'4" 292 pound 18 year old thug.
They dealt with the 5'11" 158 pound 17 year old thug.
Dealt with them real good. Permanently.


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## bgrouse (Dec 1, 2017)

Asclepias said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Do you wear shoes because you're not man enough to walk barefoot on concrete and gravel?
Do you wear clothes because you're a weak white boy who fears the cold?


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## theDoctorisIn (Dec 1, 2017)

*Knock it off. Now.

Get back on topic, and stop being fuckwits, or I'm going to start handing out violations.*


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## IM2 (Dec 1, 2017)

theDoctorisIn said:


> *Knock it off. Now.
> 
> Get back on topic, and stop being fuckwits, or I'm going to start handing out violations.*



It would be very nice if you just banned these people from this section. It's the same people, they do the same thing in every thread that is not a white thread full of racist attacks on non whites, specifically blacks.


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## IM2 (Dec 1, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Every one of them. By all standard metrics.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 1, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Prove it.


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## IM2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Prove they didn't


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



DERP!


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## IM2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



So you can't prove yourself.


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## bgrouse (Dec 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


So let's look at Ethiopia's military capabilities around 1935-1939. 

_Ethiopia was never colonized by a European power_

In this era, Italy was generally not considered to be a big hitter compared to other countries like Germany and the USSR. They screwed up plenty in the war even when they should have done well. Still, look at the numbers:
Strength: 800,000 for Ethiopia vs 500,000 for Italy (Ethiopia had a significant numerical advantage as well as being the defender)
Losses: 275,000 killed (760,300 if you include civilians) for Ethiopia vs 10,000 killed (if you include everyone who got sick or injured too, it still only rises to 208,000) for Italy.

History of Ethiopia - Wikipedia
Second Italo-Ethiopian War - Wikipedia

_Result: Decisive Italian victory_


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## Paul Essien (Dec 2, 2017)

bgrouse said:


> Who says I'm scared? I'm intelligent enough to avoid the negro or, if necessary, pack a gun. Your degenerate negro brain just can't comprehend the idea that superiority can be measured by something other than the end of a fist.


Dude. I'm tryna help you here

I'm saying that spending your days crying like a girl on the internet about black people is not really masculine....is it ?. Why don't you go 1 on 1 against the real thing ? Don't worry most black men ain't packing. No need to worry about that and why don't why you start beef with a black man smaller than you ? Come on you being he superior high IQ white man should know this. Right ?

Why you so scared of black men ?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


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I have no proof of your claim......"Every one of them. By all standard metrics"

It appears you have no proof either.


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## IM2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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I have shown proof of my claim. I have a thread full of it. You are the one who cannot prove anything.


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## IM2 (Dec 2, 2017)

bgrouse said:


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You move your punk ass to Africa. Essen doesn't have to move anywhere. He was born here just like your punk ass. He's just as American as you. So he doesn't have to move. He has the right to air his grievance against this government and this nation. Apparently you are a neo Nazi fascist who thinks that everybody has o take your racist bull sht. We don't and we won't. So white boy it's like this, no  one gives a damn if you avoid blacks. You ain't stopping anything by your non association with us. I ain't losing no sleep because your punk ass don't like blacks and I doubt Essen is either. You have a mental problem and you have to live with it.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


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You have shown no proof that every African nation was fine by all standard metrics before colonization.
Or even that any one African nation was.
But then again, evidence isn't your strong suit, is it?


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## IM2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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I have a thread about Africa. Every African nation was doing just fine until colonization.

You are the one without proof.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


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*Every African nation was doing just fine until colonization.*

Link?


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## IM2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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No.  You show me where they we not fine before colonization. That is your claim , I'm tired if you pussies asking people to prove shit wile you never do. So you prove what you say.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 2, 2017)

IM2 said:


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*
 You show me where they we not fine before colonization.
*
I never made a claim about how they were before colonization. You did.

See how that works? Of course you don't.

* So you prove what you say.
*
I say I've seen no proof of your claim.
Your failure to show your proof of your claim is interesting.


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## IM2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> IM2 said:
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I have a thread about Africa. Go read the information.

You show me where black nations weren't doing good before colonization.

See how that works because you are saying they didn't. .You said you had no evidence of this.

You are a weasel and you try this every time you are challenged to show proof.

So keep running forrest.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


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*You show me where black nations weren't doing good before colonization.
*
I've seen no indication, good or bad, about how they were doing before colonization.

*See how that works because you are saying they didn't.
*
No, I said you've provided no proof they were fine before colonization.
*
So keep running forrest.
*
Right back at you Sir Robin.


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## IM2 (Dec 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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I told you I had a thread about Africa. One you are too scared to enter. The is plenty of evidence there. You are not going to get any more than that. So  go look at thread and shut the fuck up.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Dec 3, 2017)

IM2 said:


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Post a link to your thread.


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## IM2 (Dec 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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No. You scroll down and find it.


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## Asclepias (Dec 3, 2017)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Sorry white boy. Use your search feature.


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