# Who does or does not support Israel?



## RetiredGySgt (Mar 16, 2010)

Lets see how many people are willing to put their selves on the line and admit they either support or do not support Israel as a US ally.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 16, 2010)

Bite me.


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## Luissa (Mar 16, 2010)

Why? So you can attack them for supporting them?


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## Article 15 (Mar 16, 2010)

Define "support."


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## Tommy Lucchese (Mar 16, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Lets see how many people are willing to put their selves on the line and admit they either support or do not support Israel as a US ally.



I support them, but not for any silly religious reason or because we're the Wonder Twins of Democracy.

I support them because they provide us with a valuable service, protecting Saudi Arabia, which is worth eight billion a year IMHO.


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## JW Frogen (Mar 16, 2010)

That would be a qualified yes from me.

They are a democracy, they have UN recognition, and the feisty bastards and bastardetts have fought for survival like few nations have.

Having said that, they really need to stop the West Bank land grab.

Of all people on the Earth they should know Yahweh is a capricious God, and if you over reach it all ends in tears.


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## strollingbones (Mar 16, 2010)

i do not.

we give them way too much money...and call them the underdog...i am against funnelling money into any countries....like we do israel...i for one, believe they knew they were bombing the uss liberty...i will believe the sailors who served this country over the government of a foreign country.  we are simply the stupid cash cow for them....

this is why christians ignore the part of the bible where jesus says he came only for the jews and jump on the part that says blessed are those who help the jews....


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 16, 2010)

No, I do not support the government of Israel as an ally.  I don't think we should have alliances with foreign governments that constantly get us dragged into their problems and put us on the line for billions in foreign aid.


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## jillian (Mar 16, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> That would be a qualified yes from me.
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> They are a democracy, they have UN recognition, and the feisty bastards and bastardetts have fought for survival like few nations have.
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I don't think they're doing a west bank land grab.

do you mean east jerusalem?

I don't think they should build more settlements there either. but i'm pretty sure it's a response to the pressure they're getting to make concessions before the pals will even sit down at the negotiating table.

i'm also pretty sure it's the first bargaining chip put on the table.

i would like to see the same number of threads talking about the palestinians with their terrorist government, though, that are devoted to Israel's purported transgressions -- 

most of which (not all) come down to defending itself, IMO.


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## jillian (Mar 16, 2010)

Luissa said:


> Why? So you can attack them for supporting them?



RGS supports Israel.

The larger question is why is this question continually asked regarding Israel... and why does the money constantly get raised, but not the money we spend elsewhere or the other countries we support.


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## Toro (Mar 16, 2010)

I support Israel in general, but only someone who doesn't think supports a government, any government, in everything it does.  

Israel is a separate country, not an American state nor a branch of the US government, and should not be given carte blanche support over everything it does.


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## Kalam (Mar 16, 2010)

Not one bit.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> No, I do not support the government of Israel as an ally.  I don't think we should have alliances with foreign governments that constantly get us dragged into their problems and put us on the line for billions in foreign aid.



But, you support Israel's military assistance to the US in US-related conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, right, idiot?

You also support the anti-terrorist intelligence Israel provides the US, right, moron?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

We give them money and they give us problems. What is there to support?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
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No, and no, respectively.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> That would be a qualified yes from me.
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> They are a democracy, they have UN recognition, and the feisty bastards and bastardetts have fought for survival like few nations have.
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After the land grab Obama is trying to do in the west he has no right to complain.

BTW: Israel allows the rags to have a Mosque on the Temple grounds occupying Israeli land on the Temple Rock. They don't have to do this but they do out of pressure from the UN.....and they don't have to listen to anybody sticking their noses into their sovereignty rights.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> We give them money and they give us problems. What is there to support?



This is why we support Israel, Forum Dunce...

US President Bill Clinton...


> Our relationship would never vary from its allegiance to the shared values, the shared religious heritage, the shared democratic politics which have made the relationship between the United States and Israel a specialeven on occasion a wonderfulrelationship.


 
Bill Clinton...


> American and Israel share a special bond. Our relationship is unique among all nations. Like America, Israel is a strong democracy, a symbol of freedom, and an oasis of liberty, a home to the oppressed and persecuted.


 
Colin Powell...


> Since Israel's establishment over 50 years ago, the United States has had an enduring, an ironclad commitment, to Israel's security. The United States-Israeli relationship is based on the broadest conception of American national interest in which our two nations are bound forever together by common democratic values and traditions. This will never change.



More than you do for the US, you lazyass, mentally impaired bum.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

mudwhistle said:


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That would be the mosque that the rag heads say is so important to them because Muhammad made his fictional night journey to visit Jerusalem, on the mule with a woman's head and wings.  LOL


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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The standard list of BS right out of the AIPAC book handed out to all our politicians.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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You do nothing for the US, you lazy bum.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Do you have any proof of that or are you just to stupid to add anything to the discussion.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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I have received PMs from others who know you that attest to you being a bum and a loser.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
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> > No, I do not support the government of Israel as an ally.  I don't think we should have alliances with foreign governments that constantly get us dragged into their problems and put us on the line for billions in foreign aid.
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I don't support the U.S. being in Iraq or Afghanistan, so no I don't support that.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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Nobody gives a shit about what you support.  You're insignificant.  The fact is the US will be in the Middle East for the foreseeable future and Israel's presence there as the most reliable US ally in the region has immeasurable importance.   Far greater importance than you have, slacker.


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## manu1959 (Mar 17, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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i believe it is *too* stupid....

as for israel....no money to them or anyone else on the planet.....they have the same rights as any other nation....if you can take your land, hold it and govern it...it is yours....

if you don't like it...take it from them....what are the arabs...0-2....go for it....


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Well aren't you just a bright little ray of sunshine.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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Nothing bright about him.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

mudwhistle said:


> BTW: Israel allows the rags to have a Mosque on the Temple grounds occupying Israeli land on the Temple Rock.


"Allows"? Al-Aqsa predates Israel by about 1,300 years, capitano. 



mudwhistle said:


> They don't have to do this but they do out of pressure from the UN.....and they don't have to listen to anybody sticking their noses into their sovereignty rights.


Israel is an illegitimate state and has no right of sovereignty over any part of Palestine.


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## Charles Stucker (Mar 17, 2010)

Israel is the one place in the Middle East we can count on for a logistical support base should we truly need one. Plus it is a thorn in the side of all the Islamic loonies, sort of like getting icing with your cake.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Charles Stucker said:


> Plus it is a thorn in the side of all the Islamic loonies, sort of like getting icing with your cake.



I wouldn't call 9/11 "icing."


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Israel is an illegitimate state and has no right of sovereignty over any part of Palestine.



Virtually every Arab country is illegitimate, carved out of the Ottoman Empire after World War I.  Prior to World War I, there was not one independent, sovereign Arab country.

Even Arabs deny the existence of Palestine, which never has been a country.  It was southern Syria.

Israel, in sharp contrast, existed twice in antiquity, giving Israel historical legitimacy, and, endorsements from both the League of Nations and the UN, which Arab countries do not have together, give the modern state of Israel contemporary legitimacy.

Islam is not even a legitimate religion.  Muhammad ripped of the legitimate religions of Judaism and Christianity to invent his scam cult.

Now, even YOU know, you ignorant Muslim pig.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
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If Islam is not a legitimate religion because it's based somewhat on Judaism and Christianity, wouldn't Christianity have to be considered illegitimate as well?  I mean it's based somewhat on Judaism, and many stories in the Bible have their origins in older civilizations as well.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


> mudwhistle said:
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> > BTW: Israel allows the rags to have a Mosque on the Temple grounds occupying Israeli land on the Temple Rock.
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The al Aqsa Mosque is another scam, like Islam.  The only significance it has is based on the imagined night journey Muhammad made to Jerusalem riding his mule with the woman's head, the wings and the peacock's tale.  Only problem, the journey never happened.  Muhammad, who was mentally ill, invented the whole story. 

Only idiotic Muslims believe such utter bullshit.

So, yes, Jews put up with such nonsense.  They should tear the mosque down and put up a shopping mall in its place.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Virtually every Arab country is illegitimate, carved out of the Ottoman Empire after World War I.  Prior to World war I, there was not one independent, sovereign Arab country.



Rashidun Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Caliphate of Córdoba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fatimid Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Marc39 said:


> Israel, in sharp contrast, existed twice in antiquity, giving Israel historical legitimacy, and, endorsements from both the League of Nations and the UN, which Arab countries do not have together, give the modern state of Israel contemporary legitimacy.


You're welcome to think so. Unfortunately for Zionists, the fact that Jews were among the many different peoples to inhabit Palestine throughout history doesn't mean that Jews have an exclusive right to rule over the area today. Withdraw to your 1948 borders and you'll have a leg to stand on regarding UN legitimacy, not that it would matter much.



Marc39 said:


> Islam is not even a legitimate religion.  Muhammad ripped of the legitimate religions of Judaism and Christianity to invent his scam cult.


As an avowed infidel, you aren't expected to understand or embrace the truth. You'll just have to watch as your tiny religion continues to dwindle and God's continues to expand rapidly.


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## manu1959 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
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too funny the un gave a nation to palestine and israel.....the arabs get greedy and want it all and attack israel and lose twice.....and now they want israel to give up what they won.....classic.....every nation was created out of thin air...those that can hold it and govern it get to keep it....


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

manu1959 said:


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Well, had the Arabs defeated the Jews in the '47, '48, '67 and '73 Wars, they would have given the land under Israel to the poor Palestinians for their state rather than just keeping the land for themselves, right?  Heh heh.


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## manu1959 (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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if the queen had balls she would be king....


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2010)

manu1959 said:


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So, when did the Palestinians surrender to Israel?


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

manu1959 said:


> those that can hold it and govern it get to keep it....



Very well. Let's see who can "hold it and govern it" once the cord is cut.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
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> > Virtually every Arab country is illegitimate, carved out of the Ottoman Empire after World War I.  Prior to World war I, there was not one independent, sovereign Arab country.
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The Caliphates did not constitute countries.  

As I said, prior to World War I, there was not one independent, sovereign Arab country.

Furthermore, the Arab Umayyad caliphate, lasting a mere 90 years, is the only period of Arab rule over Palestine in history.  Not very significant.



Marc39 said:


> Israel, in sharp contrast, existed twice in antiquity, giving Israel historical legitimacy, and, endorsements from both the League of Nations and the UN, which Arab countries do not have together, give the modern state of Israel contemporary legitimacy.





> You're welcome to think so. Unfortunately for Zionists, the fact that Jews were among the many different peoples to inhabit Palestine throughout history doesn't mean that Jews have an exclusive right to rule over the area today. Withdraw to your 1948 borders and you'll have a leg to stand on regarding UN legitimacy, not that it would matter much.





Marc39 said:


> Islam is not even a legitimate religion.  Muhammad ripped of the legitimate religions of Judaism and Christianity to invent his scam cult.





> As an avowed infidel, you aren't expected to understand or embrace the truth. You'll just have to watch as your tiny religion continues to dwindle and God's continues to expand rapidly.



Islam is a a scam.  Muhammad was a mentally ill false prophet, murderer and criminal. 

Jews have greater claims to Palestine, having lived there for centuries prior to the Arab invasion of Palestine in the 7th century.  Arabs, for the most part, originate from Arabia.  Today, international treaties grant Jews, not Arabs, sovereignty over Palestine based on this recognition of history.  

Arabs have 25 countries which they have largely turned into cesspools.  Only the Jews have made something worthwhile of their land in the Middle East.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Lol... Israel can take out em out with or without help of the US.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> The Caliphates did not constitute countries.


Yes, Abner, I'm afraid they did. 

_*na·tion* [*ney*-shuhn] *noun:* a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own._​


Marc39 said:


> Furthermore, the Arab Umayyad caliphate, lasting a mere 90 years, is the only period of Arab rule over Palestine in history.  Not very significant.


Palestine came under Umar's control in 635 CE and remained in Arab hands until the Kurdish Ayyubids rose to power in 1171. Don't make me laugh by attempting to lie about Islamic history.



Marc39 said:


> Jews have greater claims to Palestine...


Cut the hasbara routine, Jew; I'm immune to it.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


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I hope we'll get the chance to see if you're correct.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Caliphates were ruling bodies, governments.  Furthermore, the Abbasid caliphate was Persian, not Arab, and the last caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, was Turkish, not Arab.  

Your ignorance is noted.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Palestine came under Umar's control in 635 CE and remained in Arab hands until the Kurdish Ayyubids rose to power in 1171.



Kurds are not Arab, dope.


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 17, 2010)

Why does every Israel/Palestine thread wind up as a Marc39 spittle soaked mess, with nary a sign of logic, reason or actual discussion?


To answer the OP, yes, I support Israel as a ally. However, this is not to be confused with agreement or support with all of their actions.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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You actually saying Israel doesn't stand a chance fighting against Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan all over again?


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Caliphates were ruling bodies, governments.


No shit.



Marc39 said:


> Furthermore, the Abbasid caliphate was Persian, not Arab,


The Abbasid Caliphate is named for Abbas ibn 'Abd al-Muttalib (the uncle of the Prophet SAWS) and was founded by As-Saffah, a descendent of Abbas. As-Saffah was a prominent leader among the Banu Hashim, a clan of the Quraysh, who are most certainly Arabs. I'd quit while you aren't too far behind. 



Marc39 said:


> and the last caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, was Turkish, not Arab.


You'll notice that I didn't list them, the Mamluks, or the Ayyubids. 



Marc39 said:


> Your ignorance is noted.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


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Who said anything about the involvement of other countries? Volunteers from throughout the Muslim world will come to assist their brothers in fighting oppression, just as they have in Bosnia and Chechnya. This will be an insurgency, not a conventional war between states. Israel can't quell a large-scale internal uprising without destroying itself in the process.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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"...REMAINED IN ARAB HANDS *UNTIL *THE KURDISH AYYUBIDS ROSE TO POWER..."

God, you're as dumb as a bucket of rocks.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

RadiomanATL said:


> Why does every Israel/Palestine thread wind up as a Marc39 spittle soaked mess, with nary a sign of logic, reason or actual discussion?



To be fair, they begin that way as well.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Israel was outnumbered by the thousands, and all the Arab nations got over 10K Casualties combined.   Israel can take them out for the third time. 

Oppression? Please...  Read my post about how the middle east was split up into a Muslim side and a Jewish side..  

Frankly you just want Israel gone out of there don't you?  And when i mean out there i mean out of the Middle East.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Your posts are as confused as Muslims who follow a religious leader married to a 6 year old infant and who murdered, raped, hijacked, extorted and looted.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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You're merely posting gibberish you desperately Googled because you know nothing of the subject matter.

The Abbasid caliphate was Persian, not Arab.  The Ottoman Empire was Turkish, not Arab.

Arab rule over Palestine was limited to less than 100 years during the Umayyad caliphate.

And, Arabs invaded Palestine when Jews and Christians had been living there for centuries prior.


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## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

RadiomanATL said:


> Why does every Israel/Palestine thread wind up as a Marc39 spittle soaked mess, with nary a sign of logic, reason or actual discussion?
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> To answer the OP, yes, I support Israel as a ally. However, this is not to be confused with agreement or support with all of their actions.



You're commenting on logic?  That's like the Elephant Man commenting on physical appearance.

You dolt.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Israel was outnumbered by the thousands, and all the Arab nations got over 10K Casualties combined.   Israel can take them out for the third time.


You're referring to a conventional war fought between nation-states. I am not. I'm referring to the type of guerrilla insurgency that has been active in the Russian Caucasus for the past 15 years, but on a much larger scale.



Tom Clancy said:


> Oppression? Please...  Read my post about how the middle east was split up into a Muslim side and a Jewish side..


Link me to it. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Frankly you just want Israel gone out of there don't you?  And when i mean out there i mean out of the Middle East.


Of course. That's no secret. Jews should be welcome to stay, but not as part of an oppressive society. The Israeli regime should be eradicated.


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> You're merely posting gibberish you desperately Googled because you know nothing of the subject matter.



No, I'm posting basic historical information and laughing while I watch you attempt to squirm your way out of admitting that you're incorrect.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Yes I am, Wait.. So Israel kicks those Arab countries asses and you resort to Insurgency? 
Are you Arabs that cowardly?  You have declare jihad on people?  But you can't fight a conventional warfare because you guys have been destroyed twice..  

Quite sad.. Jihad against Innocent people..   and then they say Islam is the Religion of Peace...   

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...l-and-us-worst-in-35-years-2.html#post2100203

Then you're an Anti Semite.  You don't care about Israel, you forget the fact that there was no Palestine when Israel was there. And yet you claim it's stolen land..  

Hows your buddy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doing?  You guys still don't believe in the holocaust either?


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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The evidence is on the board. The community at large can decide.


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## Dr Grump (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Islam is a a scam.  Muhammad was a mentally ill false prophet, murderer and criminal.



And Judism and Christianity aren't scams??


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## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Yes I am, Wait.. So Israel kicks those Arab countries asses and you resort to Insurgency?


You ask that as if insurgency is some sort of fallback plan or alternative option. No, insurgency is preferable. Involving other countries in the conflict would make it unnecessarily politicized. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Are you Arabs that cowardly?


I'm not an Arab, nor do I see how engaging in an armed conflict against Israel is "cowardly."



Tom Clancy said:


> You have declare jihad on people?


On those who slaughter innocents? As a religious obligation, yes. As long as there are oppressors and aggressors, there will be jihad bi'l-sayf.



Tom Clancy said:


> But you can't fight a conventional warfare because you guys have been destroyed twice..


I don't favor a conventional war because I don't support any nation in the Middle East. They're all ruled by regimes that are, for the most part, extremely corrupt. Moreover, no Middle Eastern nation has the courage to stand up to Israel in open warfare. Palestine and its helpers will be fine without unnecessary foreign intervention. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Quite sad.. Jihad against Innocent people..


Don't be a fool. I never said anything about killing "innocent people." If I supported killing innocents, I'd hardly be better than Israel. No, I support targeting the Israeli military and government only.



Tom Clancy said:


> and then they say Islam is the Religion of Peace...


Can there really be peace while oppression runs rampant?



Tom Clancy said:


> http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...l-and-us-worst-in-35-years-2.html#post2100203




The fact that a nation called "Palestine" didn't exist does absolutely nothing to change the fact that Israel was created at the expense of the Muslim and Christian population that had already been living in the region. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Then you're an Anti Semite.


Do you think I care when people call me that? 

Apparently, opposing Jewish supremacy in favor of equality is "anti-Semitism."



Tom Clancy said:


> You don't care about Israel, you forget the fact that there was no Palestine when Israel was there. And yet you claim it's stolen land..


What does the existence of a separate nation have to do with the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that were forced out of their homes when the Zionists were seeking lebensraum? What does it have to do with Israel's continued policy of aggression towards the civilian population of Gaza and their treatment of Palestinians as subhumans in general? Absolutely nothing. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Hows your buddy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doing?


I'm not friends with heretics. 



Tom Clancy said:


> You guys still don't believe in the holocaust either?


The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


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It is.  Reminds me of all the Insurgents in Iraq and Afghan who can't fight the The US Military without hiding and using cowardly tactics.  




Tom Clancy said:


> Are you Arabs that cowardly?


I'm not an Arab, nor do I see how engaging in an armed conflict against Israel is "cowardly."

[/quote]

It's cowardly to use Insurgency  instead of a Conventional Warfare. 



> On those who slaughter innocents? As a religious obligation, yes. As long as there are oppressors and aggressors, there will be jihad bi'l-sayf.



The Reason Israel has killed Civilians is because Hamas and any other Opposing force in Palestine use Schools and Hospitals as cover.. don't get me started with the Kidnapping or children and using them as shields..



> I don't favor a conventional war because I don't support any nation in the Middle East. They're all ruled by regimes that are, for the most part, extremely corrupt. Moreover, no Middle Eastern nation has the courage to stand up to Israel in open warfare. Palestine and its helpers will be fine without unnecessary foreign intervention.



It's true, because they know Israel is a Superior Force in the Middle East, capable of taking out 4 countries at once in 7 days. 

So, you use Insurgency... 



> Don't be a fool. I never said anything about killing "innocent people." If I supported killing innocents, I'd hardly be better than Israel. No, I support targeting the Israeli military and government only.



You don't? Then what about all those Innocent Jews getting killed and are sacred of leaving their homes because of Qassam rockets? 

Don't even lie to yourself.. You don't want any Jewish Presence in the middle east.. you still haven't said anything about all those Jews eradicated from their homes when they were living in peace in Arab Nations.. 





> Can there really be peace while oppression runs rampant?



Hamas and any other Muslim who hates the Jews don't want peace.  They Want Israel gone.. Forever..  If Israel gave back all the land they would still throw Qassam Rockets over... This isn't about Palestine or Settlers, it's about Jewish Presence.. and you know it. 



> The fact that a nation called "Palestine" didn't exist does absolutely nothing to change the fact that Israel was created at the expense of the Muslim and Christian population that had already been living in the region.



Read History...

Churchill granted a Palestinian Homeland.. which is now Jordan.

Churchill also promised a Jewish Land. Which is now Israel.

In 1948 the UN divided 20% that was left of the mandate into two parts.
One for the Arabs, one for the Jews.. 60% of the New Jewish land was Desert.

Funded by the UN with Billions of the US and Israel Dollars for economic development the Arabs could have done the same.. Instead their money went to their leaders Swiss Bank accounts and for funding ethnic Hatred and Terrorism.

If the Arabs had been willing to accept an arrangement in which they were given 90% of the Original Palestine mandate there would be no middle eastern conflict.

But they didn't..

The Creation of Israel meant for the first time in 2,000 years Jews had their own state to protect them.

But 1/6 of 1% of the Middle East was too much for the Arabs..



> Do you think I care when people call me that?
> 
> Apparently, opposing Jewish supremacy in favor of equality is "anti-Semitism."



Jewish supremacy? no.  Jews in General. 




> What does the existence of a separate nation have to do with the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that were forced out of their homes when the Zionists were seeking lebensraum? What does it have to do with Israel's continued policy of aggression towards the civilian population of Gaza and their treatment of Palestinians as subhumans in general? Absolutely nothing.



Look above.. 




Tom Clancy said:


> Hows your buddy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doing?


I'm not friends with heretics. 
[/quote]

  Well sure sounds like you guys would get along perfectly.. 




Tom Clancy said:


> You guys still don't believe in the holocaust either?


The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.[/QUOTE]

[/quote]

Never said it did.  

It was a question. Simple.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.



Must be hard to keep a straight face while suggesting Zionists are imperialists when Israel is a mere 8,000 square miles, smaller than the state of Vermont, and the Arab Muslim countries in the Middle East encompass 9 million square miles, twice the size of the US. 

Israel is less than 0.1% of the total land mass.

Now, don't you feel like a total ignorant asshole?


----------



## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.
> ...



whoa! i didn't say that...


----------



## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> It is.  Reminds me of all the Insurgents in Iraq and Afghan who can't fight the The US Military without hiding and using cowardly tactics.


What makes conventional warfare superior to guerrilla warfare, especially when one party to a conflict is a non-state actor? Your suggestion is ridiculous. 



Tom Clancy said:


> It's cowardly to use Insurgency  instead of a Conventional Warfare.


That's one of the silliest and most ignorant things I've read. Were the colonists who defeated and expelled the British in 1776 "cowards"? How about the Jews who participated in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising? 



Tom Clancy said:


> The Reason Israel has killed Civilians is because Hamas and any other Opposing force in Palestine use Schools and Hospitals as cover.. don't get me started with the Kidnapping or children and using them as shields..


Israel kills civilians because it uses force indiscriminately. Claims of "human shields" are lies propagated by Israel and its unthinking supporters; the veracity of these allegations cannot be confirmed outside of Zionist propaganda sources. Even if we were to assume that you were correct -- which you aren't -- does the presence of a few militants in the vicinity of a hospital justify destroying that hospital and everyone inside of it? 



Tom Clancy said:


> It's true, because they know Israel is a Superior Force in the Middle East, capable of taking out 4 countries at once in 7 days.


That's not a particularly impressive feat when you've got the most powerful country in the world on a leash. 



Tom Clancy said:


> You don't? Then what about all those Innocent Jews getting killed and are sacred of leaving their homes because of Qassam rockets?


What about them? I haven't expressed support for indiscriminate rocket fire because, unlike Zionists, I oppose it regardless of its source. The death of any civilian is tragic, but let's put things into perspective. Qassam rockets killed 28 Israelis over eight years. In response, Israel killed over 700 Palestinian civilians over a period of three weeks. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Don't even lie to yourself.. You don't want any Jewish Presence in the middle east..




Don't be a presumptuous ass. I don't care who lives where as long as they don't oppress others. Your recourse to lying about my beliefs only underscores the weakness of your own arguments.



Tom Clancy said:


> you still haven't said anything about all those Jews eradicated from their homes when they were living in peace in Arab Nations.


I wasn't asked. Of course I oppose expelling people simply because of their religious identity. I realize that consistent opposition to oppression must be a concept unfamiliar to most Zionists, but it really isn't so complicated. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Hamas and any other Muslim who hates the Jews don't want peace.  They Want Israel gone.. Forever..  If Israel gave back all the land they would still throw Qassam Rockets over... This isn't about Palestine or Settlers, it's about Jewish Presence.. and you know it.


Certain individuals may harbor enmity for Jews in general, but I'm not one of them. Neither is Khalid Mish'al, the leader of Hamas:
_Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people._​



Tom Clancy said:


> Read History...


Don't make me laugh.



Tom Clancy said:


> Churchill granted a Palestinian Homeland.. which is now Jordan.
> 
> Churchill also promised a Jewish Land. Which is now Israel.
> 
> ...


The problem here is twofold. First of all, you are under the mistaken impression that foreign nations, like Britain, have the right to dictate the affairs of people living thousands of miles away. The people living in the region of Palestine had the exclusive right to determine for themselves what kind of government they would have. Secondly, you make it seem as if being forced to give away _any _portion of land to recently-arrived immigrants is acceptable, which is not true at all. If Mexicans crossed the border in huge numbers and settled in the Southwestern US, would you be okay with ceding ten percent of the territory of the US to those immigrants? 



Tom Clancy said:


> The Creation of Israel meant for the first time in 2,000 years Jews had their own state to protect them.


This occurred at the expense of the people who had already been living in what would become "Israel." That is completely unacceptable. If the Jews wanted a homeland where they could establish self-rule under Jewish law, it should have been carved out of German territory. It is ridiculous to expect the Palestinians to give up their territory because of an atrocity committed on a separate continent. 



Tom Clancy said:


> But 1/6 of 1% of the Middle East was too much for the Arabs.


Don't you understand? Establishing an oppressive government anywhere is unacceptable, regardless of the amount of territory controlled by that government.  



Tom Clancy said:


> Jewish supremacy? no.  Jews in General.


I oppose the former. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Well sure sounds like you guys would get along perfectly..


I'll excuse your ignorance of divisions within Islam. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Never said it did.


That's certainly what you seem to be implying. Jewish suffering does not justify Palestinian suffering.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Now, don't you feel like a total ignorant asshole?



No.


----------



## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam.. Your posts just keep showing your ignorance.. 

There is a difference between Revolutionary times and Modern Day age. And 2 Nations.  Don't Mistake it with a Militia and Armed Civilians. 

Second thing.. You still haven't said anything about all those Jews who were expelled out of Arab countries. 


Lies and Propaganda?  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y]YouTube - Hamas - Human Shield Confession[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08GqXMr3YE[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Israel kills civilians because it uses force indiscriminately.



Lie.  

The IDF conducted a daily, unilateral 3-hour ceasefire during the Gaza war in order to allow for the administration of humanitarian aid to Pallies, while taking enemy fire from Hamas.

No other military has shown similar restraint.



> Claims of "human shields" are lies propagated by Israel and its unthinking supporters; the veracity of these allegations cannot be confirmed outside of Zionist propaganda sources. Even if we were to assume that you were correct -- which you aren't -- does the presence of a few militants in the vicinity of a hospital justify destroying that hospital and everyone inside of it?



Lie.  

Hamas establishing military bases among civilian populations is well-documented.



> What about them? I haven't expressed support for indiscriminate rocket fire because, unlike Zionists, I oppose it regardless of its source. The death of any civilian is tragic, but let's put things into perspective. Qassam rockets killed 28 Israelis over eight years. In response, Israel killed over 700 Palestinian civilians over a period of three weeks.



Stupid remark.  

Hamas maximized civilian casualties in fighting out of uniform and fighting from within civilian populations, both flagrant violations of the law of armed conflict.  The IDF blanketed Gaza and phoned and texted Pallies warning them of the impending military reprisals.  

Such tactics are otherwise unthinkable in war.



> Don't be a presumptuous ass. I don't care who lives where as long as they don't oppress others. Your recourse to lying about my beliefs only underscores the weakness of your own arguments.



Arabs oppress each other.   Pallies live under fascist rule.   



> Certain individuals may harbor enmity for Jews in general, but I'm not one of them. Neither is Khalid Mish'al, the leader of Hamas:
> _Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people._​



Except, Hamas's charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel and genocide of Jews.

Muhammad annihilated the Jewish community in Medina, beheading 800 Jews.  His final deathbed curse was that only Muslims live in Arabia.

Jews who were not massacred by Muslims were forced into livesof debasement and humiliation as dhimmis.

You know less than nothing.



> The people living in the region of Palestine had the exclusive right to determine for themselves what kind of government they would have.



Wrong.  

Arabs in Palestine had no "exclusive rights" as they owned no land and had no sovereignty.   Palestine was under Ottoman sovereignty until the Turks transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the World War I Allies in signing the Treaty of Sevres.  The San Remo Resolution transferred sovereignty to the Jews.



> This occurred at the expense of the people who had already been living in what would become "Israel." That is completely unacceptable. If the Jews wanted a homeland where they could establish self-rule under Jewish law, it should have been carved out of German territory. It is ridiculous to expect the Palestinians to give up their territory because of an atrocity committed on a separate continent.



Arabs in Palestine were nomads and tenant farmers with no legal rights to land.

Your post has been demolished.   Stick a fork in you, you're done.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Now, don't you feel like a total ignorant asshole?
> ...



But, you are an ignorant asshole, as I demonstrate with each of posts.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 17, 2010)

> our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.



Dummy, when can we expect you to open a history book?  Your ignorance is embarrassing.

It was Muslims who invaded Europe, Asia and Africa in the 7th and 8th centuries and throughout the Middle Ages and who imposed their wretched cult of Islam on Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Hindus and all other non-Muslims.  

Today, Muslims are imposing themselves on Christians and Jews in the Middle East, persecuting all non-Muslims out of the region.  99% of the Middle East is Muslim---Prior to the unfortunate invention of Islam, 100% of the Middle East was not Muslim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

Get your facts straight, moron.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Kalam.. Your posts just keep showing your ignorance..


I suppose that's why this paltry post was all you were able to offer in response. 



Tom Clancy said:


> There is a difference between Revolutionary times and Modern Day age. And 2 Nations.  Don't Mistake it with a Militia and Armed Civilians.


Explain this vast difference to me. Clearly, my "ignorance" has prevented me from being able to see the truth on my own. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Second thing.. You still haven't said anything about all those Jews who were expelled out of Arab countries.


I haven't?


Kalam said:


> I wasn't asked. *Of course I oppose expelling people simply because of their religious identity.*





Tom Clancy said:


> Lies and Propaganda?


Lies and propaganda. The first video was "translated" by MEMRI, an organization founded by former IDF military intelligence personnel. It's a Zionist propaganda outlet. I'd trust a MEMRI "translation" of a Hamas statement no more than I'd trust a Hamas "translation" of an IDF statement. What's happening in the second video is unclear.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Marc39 -- 

Enough. Exchanging puerile insults with you has lost its appeal. I'll be happy to carry on a civil discussion in which neither one of us resorts to our typical name-calling and childishness (I accept responsibility for this as well), but short of that, I don't see how continuing this argument will benefit anyone.


----------



## Tom Clancy (Mar 17, 2010)

It's not so much about the Militia itself, but the Tactics Insurgents in todays age use and do. That's the difference. 

Bombing Public places in Iraq and Afghan and Israel?  Injuring Military Personnel (Iraq and Afghan) and Citizens. 

Excuse me then, You did. Sometimes reading fast we all miss a couple words. My apologies. 

To answer your question, Good. But that's not what the Leaders in those countries obviously thought. 

Kalam, I firmly believe the translation is at least 99% Correct.  If it isn't, show me otherwise.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 17, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> It's not so much about the Militia itself, but the Tactics Insurgents in todays age use and do. That's the difference.
> 
> Bombing Public places in Iraq and Afghan and Israel? Injuring Military Personnel (Iraq and Afghan) and Citizens.


Again, I oppose any operation that targets or unnecessarily endangers civilians -- military targets are permissible. A "terrorist" can be distinguished from an insurgent based on who he or she is targeting. That being said, I should make it clear that I do not support the insurgency in Afghanistan or in Iraq. The Taliban are heretical and the Iraqi insurgency is largely under the control of al-Qa'idah, whose members are flagrant violators of Islamic tenets. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Excuse me then, You did. Sometimes reading fast we all miss a couple words. My apologies.


It's fine; no big deal. 



Tom Clancy said:


> To answer your question, Good. But that's not what the Leaders in those countries obviously thought.


Apparently not. In that regard, I hardly hold them above Israel. 



Tom Clancy said:


> Kalam, I firmly believe the translation is at least 99% Correct.  If it isn't, show me otherwise.


My non-fluency in Arabic makes providing a translation on my own a bit labor-intensive. I can, however, show you why I don't believe that MEMRI translations have an ounce of credibility:

_Finkelstein later wrote on his Web site: "MEMRI recently posted what it alleged was an interview I did with Lebanese television on the Nazi Holocaust. The MEMRI posting was designed to prove that I was a Holocaust denier."

Far from being a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors, a fact he has often spoken about.

But MEMRI was able to create the opposite impression, as Finkelstein demonstrated on his Web site, by editing out large chunks of the actual interview. _

Southern California InFocus - MEMRI is propaganda machine, expert says​
Also:
Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > It's not so much about the Militia itself, but the Tactics Insurgents in todays age use and do. That's the difference.
> ...



MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine. They have no credibility.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...



You cannot dispute one word from Memri, retard.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Far from being a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors, a fact he has often spoken about.



Finkelstein is a crackpot denied tenure by every university that has employed him.  DePaul Univ. fired Finkelstein for mental problems.

You and Finkelstein have at least one thing in common.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Lies and propaganda. The first video was "translated" by MEMRI, an organization founded by former IDF military intelligence personnel. It's a Zionist propaganda outlet. I'd trust a MEMRI "translation" of a Hamas statement no more than I'd trust a Hamas "translation" of an IDF statement. What's happening in the second video is unclear.



Memri's translations are highly accurate.  Memri has Arabic-speaking members on its staff.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Lies and propaganda. The first video was "translated" by MEMRI, an organization founded by former IDF military intelligence personnel. It's a Zionist propaganda outlet. I'd trust a MEMRI "translation" of a Hamas statement no more than I'd trust a Hamas "translation" of an IDF statement. What's happening in the second video is unclear.
> ...



It is also a BS sales organization.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



You are the Forum Dunce.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



MEMRI, PMW, CAMERA, etc. all professional liars.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



While you won't even answer the question COWARD.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Far from being a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors, a fact he has often spoken about.
> ...



Not to mention being the main target of Alan Dershaputz.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



I went through the thread and found no questions asked of me.

I asked several that remain unanswered.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Dershaputz was the youngest professor to earn tenure in the history of Harvard Law School.

Finkelstein has been denied tenure and at third-rate colleges.

You are the Forum Dunce.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Moron there is a poll that IS the thread, it is a simple one with 3 possible answers. One can only assume since you wont answer the poll question you are a fucking coward.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



He's not intelligent enough to be a coward.   He's psychologically impaired.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



I did answer that question.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-m...s-or-does-not-support-israel.html#post2105440
"We give them money and they give us problems. What is there to support?"


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I do not give a rats ass what you typed in a thread, answer the question on the poll.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Sorry you don't like my answer.


----------



## editec (Mar 18, 2010)

Beware of entangling alliances.

As good advise today as it was 250 years ago.

I support Isreal to the extent that they serve as a valuable ally for the USA.

That certainly does not mean I cannot fault them for their behavior if I think it does not serve USA interests.

If anything it means that I MUST fault them for their behavior (in some cases) since (to some extent) the US taxpayers are funding it.


----------



## GHook93 (Mar 18, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> i do not.
> 
> we give them way too much money...and call them the underdog...i am against funnelling money into any countries....like we do israel...i for one, believe they knew they were bombing the uss liberty...i will believe the sailors who served this country over the government of a foreign country.  we are simply the stupid cash cow for them....
> 
> this is why christians ignore the part of the bible where jesus says he came only for the jews and jump on the part that says blessed are those who help the jews....



Still with the Liberty! huh Bones, when are you going to stop that silly nonsense and come at it with a rational though. The 6 day war was called the 6 day war because it was over in a heartbeat. The Jews didn't want or desire US intervention, since the could have brought Russia into the conflict. There was not ONE rational reason, other than believing Jews are blood thrist demons, for them to intentional attack us! Not one!


----------



## GHook93 (Mar 18, 2010)

editec said:


> Beware of entangling alliances.


We never fought one war on their behalf. We have never sent one soldier to fight in any of there wars. You can't say the same for any of our other natural and historical allies!




editec said:


> That certainly does not mean I cannot fault them for their behavior if I think it does not serve USA interests.


Nor should it! They do a lot of things that civilized people today don't comprehend. Nevertheless, they do face direct threats at nearly every border they have. They have a tough situation inregards to the Palestinians which are broken into two camps with truly neither liking or accepting a Jewish State at their borders.

Many people here would have faulted them for striking the Arabs in '67 before the Arabs attacked, which was just days away from happening. That would have been catastrophic. They are the rich kids in a tough neighborhood, most of the time that requires drastic measures. 

People like Kalam would like a doscile Jewish State that would fold easily, but that will never be the case for them. God help the middle east if Israel is ever close to destruction, because it won't be pretty picking up after 100s of nuclear bombing droppings!  



editec said:


> If anything it means that I MUST fault them for their behavior (in some cases) since (to some extent) the US taxpayers are funding it.


We don't fund all of it.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

editec said:


> Beware of entangling alliances.
> 
> As good advise today as it was 250 years ago.
> 
> ...



Israel's behavior is to defend itself against existential threats from Islamic terrorists.
Your behavior is to post idiocy.


----------



## Douger (Mar 18, 2010)

IsNtReal is a farce. A fairy tale come to life.
A thorn in the side of the world and a welfare recipient.
The country has committed more war crimes than any nation in history and is in blatant violation of the non proliferation treaty.It feels untouchable and not subject to any laws, international or moral.
They consider themselves "Chosen". Self chosen.
If their is a Gawd and those are his "chosen" ? He is the biggest asshole in the universe.

It should indeed be wiped off the fucking map.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Douger said:


> IsNtReal is a farce. A fairy tale come to life.
> A thorn in the side of the world and a welfare recipient.
> The country has committed more war crimes than any nation in history and is in blatant violation of the non proliferation treaty.It feels untouchable and not subject to any laws, international or moral.
> They consider themselves "Chosen". Self chosen.
> ...



Israel has committed no war crimes.  Israel has violated no laws.
You don't even know what a war crime is, nor, do you have any clue of international law, shit-for-brains.

Now, run along and make your bed.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Douger said:


> They consider themselves "Chosen".



You were chosen to be a loser in life, in a long line of losers.


----------



## manu1959 (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



i guess that is why they get to keep killing each other then....


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

> So, when did the Palestinians surrender to Israel?



Tell us what defines a Palestinian, idiot.
You don't even have one clue.

You're the Forum Dunce.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> > So, when did the Palestinians surrender to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perhaps someone who has Palestine as the place of birth on their birth certificate.

Or, someone who moved to Palestine to become a citizen.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > > So, when did the Palestinians surrender to Israel?
> ...



Except, there is no country of Palestine, dopey.

PWNED.


----------



## Shogun (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



YEA!  just like there were no jews before 1948!  uhhh...


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



There has never been a country of Palestine.  I've instructed you on this several times, however, your mental disability impairs your retention of information.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable....For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant.... The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole.  Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity.  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.



Try to remember this time, retard.


----------



## Baruch Menachem (Mar 18, 2010)

Israel is a democracy.  I dont much care for who they vote for, but they are a democracy.

They provide a huge amount of help when we need it

they do a lot of things we cant.


So that to the positive.

They are expensive
They dont trust us, and when it comes to matters of their own security they are always willing to tell us to take a hike.   Which can be embarrassing.  But they are consistently more reliable for us than anyone else.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Israel is a democracy.  I dont much care for who they vote for, but they are a democracy.
> 
> They provide a huge amount of help when we need it
> 
> ...



Israel didn't tell the US to go take a hike when asked to take the barrage of Scud missiles fired from Iraq during the Gulf War without retaliating.

Oh, I guess your feeble little brain forgot that incident, right?


----------



## Shogun (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



I can show you primary source maps of that land being called Palestine.  I really don't give a shit if you've got some jewish virtual library cut and paste meant to invalidate non-jews.  Truthfully, it's par for the course with you.


----------



## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



The land was called Syria by Arabs, dope.  

Historian Yehoshua Porath...


> The First Congress of the Muslim-Christian Associations which met in Jerusalem in 1919 and brought together thirty delegates from various parts of Palestine adopted the resolution:
> "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time.  Weare connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographicaal bonds.  We desire that our district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian government."


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## Charles Stucker (Mar 18, 2010)

Since a decent case can be made that the original Philistines were (insert appropriate race - nobody knows about the Philistines), does this mean I can claim the country?
I'll buy that for a dollar.


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## Shogun (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...





> It is interesting to note that the Armistice Agreement called an and to the 1948 war. It was after the so called establishment if a Jewish homeland in Palestine. That did not happen. It is also after the partition plan of the UN. (Resolution 181) This also did not happen.
> 
> None of these agreements mentioned Israel. All of the borders mentioned were between Lebanon and Palestine, Syria and Palestine, Jordan and Palestine, and Egypt and Palestine. Israel was not mentioned as being on one side of any of these borders.



http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-middle-east-general/109424-1949-armistice-agreement.html

Israel won nothing in the 1948 war.


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



Unfortunately for you, Palestine never existed as a country.   It was part of the Ottoman Empire for most of the past 500 years.

Thus, your map is meaningless.  Thus, you are PWNED.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 18, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



try telling that to the armies of jordan, syria, iraq and the host of other countries that tried to destroy us and gottes pummled. 

Butler hey, whatever gets you (and them) through the night...lol


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## Shogun (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



sorry, dicklicker, I'll take primary sources over silly fucking racist jews any day of the week.

BACK TO POURING CONCRETE, HEEB!


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## johnrocks (Mar 18, 2010)

I don't support entangling alliances, their costs exceed their benefits,imho.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



How much of Lebanon did Lebanon lose?

How much of Syria did Syria lose?

How much of Jordan did Jordan lose?

How much of Egypt did Egypt lose?

The war was called to an end by a UN resolution not any surrender.


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## Shogun (Mar 18, 2010)

I don't understand your optimism. Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out.

    * As quoted in The Jewish Paradox : A personal memoir (1978) by Nahum Goldmann (translated by Steve Cox), p. 99.


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## RetiredGySgt (Mar 18, 2010)

Note the antisemites won't vote in the poll. They are all cowards.


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## Shogun (Mar 18, 2010)

note that some of us are not lulled into temptation by a silly black and white poll.. 


... indeed, plenty of people in this thread have felt the need to clarify their answer deeper than "do you like me circle yes or no".


but hey... you believe in Moroni so...  grain of salt, right?


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



You have dick licking on your mind?  I can't help you.  A bogus map does not constitute a primary source.  Your bogus map is "primarily" bogus.

Palestine has never existed in history as a country.

You're toast.


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Shogun said:


> I don't understand your optimism. Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out.
> 
> * As quoted in The Jewish Paradox : A personal memoir (1978) by Nahum Goldmann (translated by Steve Cox), p. 99.



The Arab Muslim God does not exist.  Allah is the god of the scam cult Islam, created by an illiterate, cave-dwelling pedophile who used his fraudulent religion to murder, steal land, bed women, molest children, hijack caravans, extort and loot.


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

johnrocks said:


> I don't support entangling alliances, their costs exceed their benefits,imho.



Your opinion is very humble.  And, worthless.


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## Coyote (Mar 18, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Lets see how many people are willing to put their selves on the line and admit they either support or do not support Israel as a US ally.



It rather depends on what Israel is doing doesn't it, as to whether we suppport them?

Blind support is very dangerous.


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## JWBooth (Mar 18, 2010)

I've no more use for them than I would have for any other socialist militarist state.


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

JWBooth said:


> I've no more use for them than I would have for any other socialist militarist state.



If you needed a fragile endoscopic medical procedure, you'd have use for the digestible camera recently invented by an Israeli company.

If you needed generic drugs, you'd have use for Israeli-based Teva, the world's largest generic pharmaceuticals company.

If you needed advanced technology, you'd have use for the Israeli technology companies that dominate NASDAQ more than any other country, except, the US.

Frankly, you're useless.


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## maineman (Mar 18, 2010)

absolutely and unequivocally.

Does that mean that they can do no wrong in my eyes?  not at all.


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## JWBooth (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> > I've no more use for them than I would have for any other socialist militarist state.
> ...



If I needed a font of insipid twittery, I'd have use for Marc39


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

JWBooth said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > JWBooth said:
> ...



You merely need to look in the mirror to see a twit.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 18, 2010)

Coyote said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Lets see how many people are willing to put their selves on the line and admit they either support or do not support Israel as a US ally.
> ...



This is true.  

I don't condone Israels mistakes or actions when it comes to Civilian Deaths. etc.


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Do you condone Truman dropping the atomic bomb on Japan, killing a million civilians?
Do you condone Hamas killing Israeli civilians?


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Marc.. I'm on the same side as you. 

Also Marc look at the previous threads about Israel i'm the one condoning Hamas and Jihad. 

I forgot to add on my previous Post:  While Israel has killed Civilians. (What war hasn't?)  The blame has to be put on Hamas.. Why? Because they're the ones hiding in Schools and Hospitals and other Public place full of Civilians.


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## RadiomanATL (Mar 18, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...



I think you mean condemning.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 18, 2010)

RadiomanATL said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Yep. Thanks, my mistake.


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## JWBooth (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> You merely need to look in the mirror to see a twit.



Does your momma know that you are using her computer to annoy the grownups?


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## Samson (Mar 18, 2010)

I do NOT support Israel as an ally.

I think the USA needs to revise their list of allies Post Cold War.

The alliance with Israel is a Cold War Anachronism that serves no purpose other than to continue to involve the USA in regional conflicts about which there is nothing to be gained, and much to be lost. As long as Israel is allied with the USA, they have no incentive to develop and expand more meaningful alliances with regional partners.

In Short:

_*Israel needs to Grow The Fuck Up.*_


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Samson said:


> I do NOT support Israel as an ally.
> 
> I think the USA needs to revise their list of allies Post Cold War.
> 
> ...



Stupid remarks.   The US alliancewith Israel is based on shared democratic principles and Israel being one of the few reliable allies in a region of the world that is a significant threat to the West.

Keep your dumb thoughts to yourself, fool


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## Samson (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > I do NOT support Israel as an ally.
> ...



As compelling and intelligent an aguement you present, I must respectfully disagree.

I cannot imagine what evidence you have of Israel being a "reliable ally" nor which country bordering Israel represents a "significant threat" to the USA.

Are you expecting Syria to launch an invasion? Perhaps hitting Miami Beach any day now?


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Samson said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



This is a reliable ally...

Since 1967, Israel has given to the Pentagon Soviet military equipment captured in conflicts with Soviet-supported Arab countries, providing important data. Israel gave the US a full squadron of MiG-21s which was called the Top Gun squadron and used by the U.S. Air Force and Navy for training purposes. 

In 1970, Israel forced the withdrawal of the Syrian army from US-ally Jordan while the U.S. was involved militarily in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, helping to prevent the collapse of a pro-American government and the installation of a pro-Soviet regime.

In the 1973 War, Israel defeated Soviet-trained and equipped Egyptian and Syrian armies. Israel shared captured Soviet equipment with the US. Israel emerged the one reliable ally where U.S. troops could land, where U.S. equipment can be pre-positioned and where the U.S. has friendly port facilities, saving the US billions of dollars.

In 1982, Israel destroyed Soviet anti-aircraft systems in Lebanon that were considered impenetrable by American weapons. Israel shared with the US insights from the conflict, estimated to be worth billions of dollars.

Senator Daniel Inouye has stated that Israeli data on the Soviet military has saved the U.S. billions of dollars and that the contribution made by Israeli intelligence to America exceeds information provided by all NATO countries combined.

In 1981, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, stalling Saddam Husseins nuclear capabilities and allowing the U.S. to engage in conventional warfare with Iraq.

Israel has provided critical analysis of the F16 to General Dynamics that resulted in 600 improvements, including structural enhancements, software changes, increased capability landing gear, radio improvements and avionic modifications.

In the Gulf War, Israel provided the US with key intelligence, air cover for military cargo and had IDF stationed in the Iraqi desert to rescue downed American pilots.

The IDF was the sole military force in the region that could successfully challenge the Iraqi army. That fact, which Saddam Hussein understood, was a deterrent to further Iraqi aggression.

The US military benefited from the use of Israeli-made Have Nap air-launched missiles on its B-52 bombers. The Navy used Israeli Pioneer pilotless drones for reconnaissance in the Gulf.

Israel provided mine plows that were used to clear paths for Allied forces through Iraqi minefields.

Mobile bridges flown directly from Israel to Saudi Arabia were used by the U.S. Marine Corps

Israel Aircraft Industries developed conformal fuel tanks that enhanced the range of F15 aircraft used in the Gulf War.

An Israeli-produced targeting system was used to increase the Cobra helicopter's night-fighting capabilities.

Israel manufactured the canister for the highly successful Tomahawk missile.

Night-vision goggles used by U.S. forces were supplied by Israel.

A low-altitude warning system produced and developed in Israel was utilized on Blackhawk helicopters.

Other Israeli equipment provided to U.S. forces included flack vests, gas masks and sandbags.

Israel offered the United States the use of military and hospital facilities. U.S. ships utilized Haifa port shipyard maintenance and support on their way to the Gulf.

General George Keegan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence, has stated that Israel is worth five CIAs. He said that between 1974 and 
1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in U.S. military grants, but, that in the same timeframe Israel provided the U.S. with $50-$80 billion in intelligence, research and development savings and Soviet weapons systems given to the U.S.

Israel shares with the US important experience in homeland defense and warfare against suicide bombers and car bombs. 

In preparation for the Iraq War, American soldiers trained in IDF facilities and Israeli drones flew above the Sunni Triangle and in Afghanistan providing U.S. Marines with critical intelligence.

In Iraq, Israeli advisers have trained US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders. 

The IDF sent urban warfare specialists to Fort Bragg in North Carolina, the home of US special forces, and Israeli military consultants have also visited Iraq. 

The US Army also travelled to Israel to glean lessons learned from their counterterrorist operations in urban areas. The IDF regularly shared its experience in the West Bank and Gaza with the US armed forces. The Pentagon regularly asked the IDF to debrief on operations similar to those engaged in by US military forces.

An American liaison team had been responsible for coordinating efforts and intelligence between the Pentagon, the IDF, and American forces. Major General Charles Simpson, the chief liaison officer for the U.S. Army, met repeatedly with IDF Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon on this joint project. 

Joint air force exercises, such as the Juniper Cobra, had taken place between Israeli and the American Patriot artillery in the Negev and radar units from the U.S. Sixth Fleet. Noble Dina, an anti-submarine warfare exercise, were executed with the combined efforts of the Israel Navy and the Sixth Fleet. 

American soldiers were in Israel prior to the Iraq war to work with anti-missile defenses, both the U.S.-made Patriot and the Arrow, developed by both Israel and the U.S. 

The U.S. sailed an aircraft carrier, the Harry Truman, into the Mediterranean Sea. The aircraft allowed U.S. planes to reach Iraqi targets by flying over Israeli and Jordanian territory. Israel has permitted the use of its air zones. 

Israel has been sharing with the US its experience in combating Palestinian terrorism, which has been helpful in the US's war in Afghanistan. The US military benefits from Israels tactics against suicide bombers, car bombs and improvised explosive devices. 

Most of the US military aid to Israel must be spent in the United States, which benefits US military contractors. 

In contrast to US commitments to Korea, Japan, Germany and numerous other countries in which the US has over 100 military bases, the US has no military bases in Israel. 

Former Secretary of State and NATO forces Commander Alexander Haig has said that he is pro-Israeli because Israel is "the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security" 

In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in August 2005, Israel provided assistance to the relief efforts. An Israeli airlift arrived in Little Rock, Arkansas with an eighty-ton shipment of humanitarian aid, including baby food, diapers, water, ready-to-eat meals, clothes, tents, blankets, mattresses, stretchers, first aid kits, wheelchairs and other medical supplies.

In addition to government aid, Israeli non-profit organizations assisted in the relief efforts. Magen David Adom (Israel's national emergency medical, disaster, ambulance and blood bank service) began the "United Brotherhood Operation," which sent a plane-load of supplies and financial assistance. IsraAid, the coordinating body of Israeli non-profits organizations involved in relief work, sent a delegation of medical personnel, psychologists and experienced search-and-rescue divers.

 Five universities in Israel welcomed displaced American students from the affected areas and invited both undergraduate and graduate students to continue their studies in Israel.

When terrorists bombed the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998, Israel immediately dispatched search and rescue teams to assist in saving the victims trapped under the rubble. The IDF's Home Front Command Rescue Unit was the first delegation to arrive from abroad, and was accompanied by military and civilian doctors, rescue dogs and high-tech rescue equipment. The Israeli team led the rescue operation in Nairobi, Kenya and was able to pull three survivors from the building, perform life-saving operations and provide medical care to the victims of the bombing.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 18, 2010)

Samson said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



We have a HUGE advantage to our threats in the Middle East (Iran) thanks to our strong Alliance with Israel..   

Just sayin'


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## Samson (Mar 18, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Really?

Did we have the same HUGE advantage to our threats in the Middle East (_*IRAQ*_) thanks to our strong Alliance with Israel?

Apart from offering a secondary target for SCUDS, what did Israel do?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 18, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Who is a threat in the ME? I don't see one.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 18, 2010)

Samson said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Look at Marc Posted, that will answer your question about Iraq. 



> Who is a threat in the ME? I don't see one.



Who isn't a threat?


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## Samson (Mar 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Yes a very impressive list you no doubt cut-and-pasted from the Israeli Lobby Website (since you offer no source, you leave me to guess).

I found the inclusion of:

"Five universities in Israel welcomed displaced American students from the affected areas and invited both undergraduate and graduate students to continue their studies in Israel"

especially compelling.

I'm not saying that welcoming displaced American Students (whatever the fuck that means) isn't a nice thing, but I'll be damned if I'm going to support sending US troops to defend Israel to make sure the invitation remains open.

Still waiting to hear how Israel has defended USA during an attack on the USA.


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## uscitizen (Mar 18, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> That would be a qualified yes from me.
> 
> They are a democracy, they have UN recognition, and the feisty bastards and bastardetts have fought for survival like few nations have.
> 
> ...


Israel also needs to be included in any nuke and WMD talks since they have it all.


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## Samson (Mar 18, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...



After combing through the barage of listings designed to be more impressive in quantity than quality (because the obvious answer simply isn't available), I found these:



> In preparation for the Iraq War, American soldiers trained in IDF facilities and Israeli drones flew above the Sunni Triangle and in Afghanistan providing U.S. Marines with critical intelligence.
> 
> In Iraq, Israeli advisers have trained US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders.
> 
> ...



Israelis provided the Most Expensive Military on the face of the planet with:
1. Critical Intelligence
2. Training
3. Consulting
4. Weapons Development

Frankly, none of these things are necessary to "contract out." I'm quite confident that the USA's Eastern Seaboard will be safe from Syrian Invasion without Israeli intelligence, training, or consultants.


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## Marc39 (Mar 18, 2010)

Samson said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Tell us what great things you have done for America.  Masturbating all day in your bedroom doesn't count.


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## Samson (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...



Interesting you'd mention masterbating all day. Fixation Much?

I pay part of the $$$ that supports the US Army, Airforce, Navy, and Marines in Defense of My Country.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 19, 2010)

> Tell us what great things you have done for America. Masturbating all day in your bedroom doesn't count



Gee, when Mar69 aint "cuttin and pastin" from those who know this is the best Mar69 can do, at best Marc69 is a "jock supporter".


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## editec (Mar 19, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Beware of entangling alliances.
> ...


 
Israel has got to do what Israel thinks is in its best interests.

So does the USA.

Their best interests and ours are not _always_ aligned.

As to _entrangling alliances?_

That phrase means much more than_ just_ sending troops, GH.

It has to do with every aspect of how nations interact.


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## sparky (Mar 19, 2010)

arms sales comes to mind.......~S~


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## antagon (Mar 19, 2010)

sparky said:


> arms sales comes to mind.......~S~


 the taiwan of the mideast.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Lebanon ost the Israeli land the wanted to conquer.

Syria lost the Israeli land the wanted to conquer.

Jordan lost (Most of) the Israeli land the wanted to conquer.

Egypt lost (Most of) the Israeli land they wanted to conquer.

and all together lost 10,000-15,000 troops to the IDF.

any more questions?


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## Winston Smith (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> I do NOT support Israel as an ally.
> 
> I think the USA needs to revise their list of allies Post Cold War.
> 
> ...



A. The equation that Israel is the only one the profits from the Israel-US relationship is wrong. 

B. With which one of the countries that want us obliterated from the map should Israel form a regional alliance?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



Actually, none of those countries lost any land. Israel wanted to take all of Palestine. The other countries wanted to liberate all of Palestine. Neither accomplished their objective.

The war between all parties, except the war between Israel and Palestine, was called to an end by a UNSC resolution calling for an armistice. No one "lost" that war. No land was transferred.


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## Tariq (Mar 19, 2010)

I Tariq do NOT support the Zionists in Israel. The land is ours, the Jews took it with the help of america. We will regain control, ultimately the land and the world will be ours.

Allah Akbar


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...



Christians and Jews from the US and around the world visit ME countries regularly and walk the streets in safety.

Amira Hass, an Israeli Jew, has lived in Palestine for decades. She has even spoken to Hamas and lived to tell about it.

So, where is the threat?


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Tariq said:


> I Tariq do NOT support the Zionists in Israel. The land is ours, the Jews took it with the help of america. We will regain control, ultimately the land and the world will be ours.
> 
> Allah Akbar



Wrong, you sand rat.  Arab trash invaded Palestine in the 7th century when Jews and Christians had been there for centuries.

You losers have the entire Middle East and what have you done with it:  Nothing.  You live in cesspools and still drive camels.

You're just an ignorant nomad.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The legally binding Palestine Mandate allocates all of Palestine to the Jews.

You're the Forum Dunce.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Christians and Jews from the US and around the world visit ME countries regularly and walk the streets in safety.



You've never been to the Middle East, so, you are clueless, nitwit.

Palestine&#8217;s Christians Continue to Suffer Persecution

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




_Liberate???_ don't make me laugh (yet again....to late ). What kind of liberty did egypt and jordan give the palestinians during their occupation? they brutally repressed them in both countries. of course, no one was screaming "palestinian state"  back then. yet another example of the hypocracy of the world community whenit comes to israel. 

and you keep hanging on to that "no one lost land" and "no one lost the war" illusion. i guess it is the only thing that keeps you and your likes from going crazy from shame. 

[/I]


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## del (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...



then i guess you won't be getting that medal of freedom, will you?

tant pis


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## al Haq (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Christians and Jews from the US and around the world visit ME countries regularly and walk the streets in safety.
> ...



Another Israeli attempt to demonize Muslims and pit Palestinians against each other.  What a surprise.  

Palestinian Christians *themselves* tell it differently:



> The Israeli policy of divide and conquer has not split Christian and Muslim Palestinians despite attempts to sow discord between the two communities.
> 
> According to Palestinian Christian leaders, Israeli military authorities have tried repeatedly to foster an atmosphere of mistrust between the two communities, for the purpose of eroding Palestinian national unity and crushing Palestinian aspirations for freedom and liberation.
> 
> Christians, though a minority, have always been an integral part of the Palestinian social, cultural and political fabric.



Linkie:
Sharing a vision: Palestinian Christians



> This tradition of good Christian-Moslem relations has evolved through centuries of coexistence and exchange in the cities of Jerusalem, Nazareth, Bethlehem, Ramallah and in the rural areas such as Zababdeh, BirZeit and other towns and villages where Moslems and Christians live side by side and interact in their pursuit of daily pre-occupations and concerns.





> * 'No Muslim harassment'*
> 
> According to Bishara Awad, dean of the Bible College in Bethlehem, Israeli persecution is first and foremost to blame for Christian (and Muslim) emigration.
> 
> ...



Linkie:
http://www.al-bushra.org/holyland/sabella.htm


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## Nonelitist (Mar 19, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Not one bit.



Would you rather see Israel wiped off the map?

Be honest.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 19, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> > Tell us what great things you have done for America. Masturbating all day in your bedroom doesn't count
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, when Mar69 aint "cuttin and pastin" from those who know this is the best Mar69 can do, at best Marc69 is a "jock supporter".



mac39 must of missed this or is busy google searching for a "cut and paste" response


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

al Haq said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



From the OP.

Israeli attorney and author, Justus Reid Weiner, has just penned a new book, Human Rights Christians in Palestinian Society, based on eight years of research into the human rights abuses directed at Muslims who converted to Christianity.

According to Don Finto, pastor and author of Gods Promise and the Future of Israel, due for release in February, the persecution is happening primarily within the Palestinian territories.

Nope, no bias here!


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## Shogun (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Tariq said:
> 
> 
> > I Tariq do NOT support the Zionists in Israel. The land is ours, the Jews took it with the help of america. We will regain control, ultimately the land and the world will be ours.
> ...



...says a jewish parasite.....


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## Shogun (Mar 19, 2010)

Nonelitist said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Not one bit.
> ...



I'd rather see a single state of Palisrael become a shared nation for both jews AND palis to enjoy equally. 


fat fucking chance of that happening when you kind is more interested in your jebus salvation via blank checks for jews, eh buddy?  

if jesus were caucasian we'd still have slavery.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 19, 2010)

Shogun, even if Israel gave back all the "Land" Hamas, every other country wanting to Eliminate Israel and the Jews would continue to do so. 

It's not about Land, it's about Killing and Wiping off Israel. 


They already failed twice if i might add..


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



Not one of those countries lost any of their land to Israel. The war was called by the UN. No one surrendered. How can you say they lost the war?


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## mdn2000 (Mar 19, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Nonelitist said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



That is what Israel was and it remained that way for many years.

Many Arabs in Palestine do not wish to be part of a Sunni state sponsered by Saudi Arabia, that is why their tribes fled to Palestine in the first place.

The two state solution is what a small group of Arabs hungry for power want, the two state solution is what Saudi Arabia wants.

Of course Saudi Arabia wants to eliminate Israel completely but the Sauds will be happy to accomplish their goal in steps.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



whatever gets you though the night, bubbi....


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The palestinians did indeed lose the war.  A surrender is not required when the defeated are kicked squarely in the butt, their collective face forced into the dirt by the conqueror's boot, and their collective butt is in up the air for the conqueror to do what he wants with it.

Why give the defeated the recognition of letting them surrender.  Treat them like banditti and move on.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

JakeStarkey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



The problem is that the war continues today. It has flared up regularly over the last 20 years. Hamas has made a major shift in their strategy over the last few years and Israel is having a tough time dealing with it.


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## Samson (Mar 19, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > I do NOT support Israel as an ally.
> ...



A. I never said the US didn't benefit from the existing alliance. 

I said the benefit isn't worth the cost.

B. Since I'm in the USA, I don't care if, or when, Israel forms regional alliances with anyone. Sounds like something the Israelis need to work out, though.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



The cost is arounding figure in the overall budget.  Israel benefits the US infinitely more greatly than you do.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You know less than nothing of the matter.  

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## Samson (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



I'm debating whether or not to ignore you or continue to read your posts for their entertainment value.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Be flattered I even acknowledge you.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



what i meant with the B. point was to respond to what you said:" As long as Israel is allied with the USA, they have no incentive to develop and expand more meaningful alliances with regional partners." the thing is, israel has no regional partners with which they can make alliances with, regardless of US support. is that america's problem. well, if the US wants to maintain a global leadership role, than it has to have alliances with local partners in global regions. in the mid-east, the ally is israel.


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## Shogun (Mar 19, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Shogun, even if Israel gave back all the "Land" Hamas, every other country wanting to Eliminate Israel and the Jews would continue to do so.
> 
> It's not about Land, it's about Killing and Wiping off Israel.
> 
> ...



I said nothing about "giving back the land".  I said sharing Palisrael under a united nation for both jews and palis.  Now, if you want to think it's not about the land go ahead and figure out why no zionist jew will ever go for the same kind of ethnic equality THERE as they enjoy HERE in the US.

it's too bad that your concept of israel hinges on preserving a jewish dominance.  If only white southerners had your zeal.


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## Tom Clancy (Mar 19, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun, even if Israel gave back all the "Land" Hamas, every other country wanting to Eliminate Israel and the Jews would continue to do so.
> ...



Your right you didn't, must have thought you were reffering to that since you said Sharing Land. My apologies. 

But to answer your question, Even if we did share the Land we would still be under threat and constantly getting Qassam rockets thrown over to the Jewish "Side". 

Actually it doesn't, It was split up into 2 mandates, a Jewish and a Muslim Mandate. 

But apparently they don't any Jewish Mandate or Presence in the Middle East.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun, even if Israel gave back all the "Land" Hamas, every other country wanting to Eliminate Israel and the Jews would continue to do so.
> ...



Dopey, the concept of 25 Arab countries hinges on preserving Arab dominance. 
Also, dopey, the concept of 57 Muslim countries hinges on preserving Islamic dominance.
And, dopey, the concept of a Greek country hinges on preserving Greek Orthodox dominance.
Further, dopey, the concept of an Italian country hinges on preserving Catholic dominance.

I could name dozens of other countries, dopey.  Get my point, dopey?

You're not too bright, eh, stoner?  Too bad you weren't aborted, you mental invalid.


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## Shogun (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...



I take it that this is your full testimony as to what kind of a dumb son of a bitch you are?

got it.

now, when you get done washing the sand and dirt from hour hands go on outside and enjoy a nation that doesn't treat your jewish ass like you want to treat non-jews in israel.  If you can't fathom my point then just say so.  Trying to sound deeper than you aren't is just sad.


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## Shogun (Mar 19, 2010)

*Further, dopey, the concept of an Italian country hinges on preserving Catholic dominance.*





you are so fucking stupid.  This sentence really highlights your stupidity.  seriously.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



Sucks having me make you look like the mental midget you truly are, eh?  Show us that bogus map of Palestine, moron, which never actually existed as a country in history.  LOL


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Shogun said:


> *Further, dopey, the concept of an Italian country hinges on preserving Catholic dominance.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FAIL.  I own you.  You're my bitch.


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## Shogun (Mar 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > *Further, dopey, the concept of an Italian country hinges on preserving Catholic dominance.*
> ...



no, you really don't.  and, that you seem to think that it's CATHOLICISM which defines the Italian national identity pretty much proves how knee-slapping hilarious it is that you think so.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Shogun said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Shogun said:
> ...



Catholicism does define Italy, fool.  By law, every public building must display a Crucifix.  Catholicism must be taught in public school.   The Vatican dominates public policymaking in Italy.

Now, you know, idiot.  But, then, again, you also believe Palestine is acountry, right, genius?


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## Samson (Mar 19, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



I disagree.

The ONLY ally in the mid-east is _*not*_ Israel

We own Iraq.


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## Marc39 (Mar 19, 2010)

Israel is the only US ally in the Middle East.

To suggest Iraq is an ally is beyond pathetically uninformed.


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## maineman (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The ONLY ally in the mid-east is _*not*_ Israel
> 
> We own Iraq.



as long as we have an occupying army within their borders, I suppose you can call Iraq an "ally"...but as soon as our combat troops depart, Iraq will be a MUCH closer ally to Iran than to us.  without a doubt


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## Samson (Mar 19, 2010)

maineman said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree.
> ...



Opinion, based on..........?

History Disagrees: The USA has never invaded and occupied another nation without them becomming our ally.

Key phrase here is "as soon as our combat troop depart."


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

maineman said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree.
> ...



Iraq could have been a strong ally to the US but retard Bush blew that out of the water.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> maineman said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Does that mean they will be our ally as long as we are there to pound them into submission?


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> I do NOT support Israel as an ally.
> 
> I think the USA needs to revise their list of allies Post Cold War.
> 
> ...



The US has never become involved in a conflict because of its alliance with Israel and there is no likelihood it will in the future.  The US did become involved in two horrendous wars because of its alliances with the UK, France, etc. that cost us huge amounts of money and over 400,000 American lives and the US did become involved in a bloody conflict in Iraq because of its alliances with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE that has cost hundreds of billions of dollars so far with no end in sight and has cost the lives of thousands of American soldiers.  The US alliance with South Korea has cost tens of thousands of American lives and along with our alliance with Japan may yet involve us in a nuclear exchange with North Korea and perhaps a conflict with China.  While the Soviet Union has collapsed, our commitment to defend our western European allies and our allies in eastern Europe may yet involve us in a conflict with a resurgent and increasingly aggressive Russia with potentially horrendous consequences.

By contrast, the US alliance with Israel is low maintenance.  The US has never had to fight in any of Israel's conflicts; in fact, by twice defeating Soviet client states in Egypt and Syria, Israel relieved the US of the necessity of having to insert troops in the ME to prevent a Soviet advance towards the Gulf, and these Israeli victories set the stage for the US to lock Soviet influence out of the ME from North Africa to the Gulf with the Egypt-Israel peace treaty.  No other US ally made as great a contribution to the US winning the Cold War as Israel did.  In fact, by stopping the Soviet advance towards the Gulf, Israel arguably made a greater contribution to the sovereignty, safety and independence of Jordan and the Gulf nations than any other country in the world other than the US.  

But you're saying, even if Israel was an enormously important ally before the collapse of the USSR, is there any reason why we shouldn't dump them now that the Cold War seems to be over?  Indeed, we could ask the same question about nearly all of our allies.  Why should we risk even a non military conflict with China over Taiwan?  Why should we risk the lives of American soldiers, and perhaps American civilians and cities, to protect South Korea?  And why take this risk to protect Japan?  Surely, Japan is rich enough and technologically advanced enough to protect themselves against North Korea and maybe even China without putting US lives at risk.  And the same is true of our commitment to defend westarn and eastern European allies; surely the western Europeans are rich enough and technologically advanced enough to be able to provide for their own defense without enormous US expenditures for deployments of men and material and the risk to American lives it entails.  And the list goes on and on.

I won't try to justify all of these alliances that not only cost us lots of money but put American lives at risk also, but in the case of our alliance with Israel, we get a clear and important benefit, and we get it at a bargain price - no US lives put at risk and mo massive deployments of men or material.  What we get in return for our annual military aid to Israel - which costs us much less than our deployments in South Korea or elsewhere in the Pacific and much, much less than our deployments in Europe in support of those allies -  is stability in the ME where the US has vital interests, the Suez Canal in the west and the Gulf oil fields in the east.  

While it may sound strange, our alliance with Israel and the alliance with Egypt it led to are the principal stabilizing forces in the ME.  The ME strategy Jimmy Carter committed us to in the Egypt-Israel peace treaty is that the US will provide sufficient military aid to each country so that beyond their needs to defend themselves against other potential adversaries, each would be so powerful when compared to the other that neither would have to fear attack from the other, and in a part of the world where so many radical destabilizing forces are barely held in check, this strategy has worked almost perfectly in keeping the peace and relieved the US from the necessity of having to deploy troops to protect its vital interests in the area.


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 19, 2010)

Samson said:


> maineman said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Except the exceptions: Mexico, Cuba, and what else, hmmm?  Iraq and Iran are going to become very tight buddies, and to think only the idiocy of Bush and Cheney could have pulled that off.  Nevertheless, I won't give the GOP up.  It's history is too wonderful to let the recent aberrations and perversions committed in its name become its standard pattern.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 20, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



the only way to really know if iraq is a US ally, is its behvior after american troops leave the country.

besides, i didn't mean to say that Israel is the only regional partner in the mid-east (egypt, for example is also one), but that Israel is the main US ally in the area, and the only one where the US realtions are seen in a positive light.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 20, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Israel is the only US ally in the Middle East.
> 
> To suggest Iraq is an ally is beyond pathetically uninformed.



This is a great example of a bigot, sometimes a bigot is on the right side but in the case of bigots the truth they spew never makes up for the damage the bigotry does.


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## Marc39 (Mar 20, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel is the only US ally in the Middle East.
> ...



You're an insipid, incoherent broken record.   Yes, it sucks that I humiliate you in debate.  I'm much smarter.  Deal with it.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 20, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Unless you call name calling a debate we have yet to debate, do you mean where you apparently did not read what I wrote and in response you stated



> "the USA congress made Jerusalem",  "the USA congress made Jerusalem",  "the USA congress made Jerusalem",  "the USA congress made Jerusalem",



That is not debate, that is gibberish, that is incoherent, not debate, of course it could be debate to a moron, if so I concede, you win.


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## Samson (Mar 20, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



There are few "allies" of the USA where the alliance is completely seen in a completely "positive light," including Israel.

However, I'd agree that the US could be viewed in a "more positive light" in the Mid-East.

The first step towards this would be making Israel's military defense and economic aid less of a US priority.

Much has been invested in Iraq. 

I favor shifting US resources going to Israel to go to Iraq to maintain that investment.


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## GHook93 (Mar 20, 2010)

There are no true allies between every country, because no 2 countries have all the same views, goals, wants, needs and objectives. US and Israel aren't different. But to say we AMERICA has no allies in the Muslim world is absurd! I would say we have allies in Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq (because they are stabilized!), Pakistan (look what they are doing to woop Al Qaeda), Uzbekistan, Kosovo, Saudi Arabia (we have had good relations for a while), UAE, Kuwait and Qatar.

Second, we DON'T own Iraq. Never have and never will!




Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...


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## Winston Smith (Mar 20, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Do you really think investing more money in iraq will make iraqis see the US in a poitive light?


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## Samson (Mar 20, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> There are no true allies between every country, because no 2 countries have all the same views, goals, wants, needs and objectives. US and Israel aren't different. But to say we AMERICA has no allies in the Muslim world is absurd! I would say we have allies in Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq (because they are stabilized!), Pakistan (look what they are doing to woop Al Qaeda), Uzbekistan, Kosovo, Saudi Arabia (we have had good relations for a while), UAE, Kuwait and Qatar.
> 
> Second, we DON'T own Iraq. Never have and never will!



I agree, and would add Turkey to the list.

Would you rather I said we have a "Long-term Lease" on Iraq?

The USA has never invaded another country without staying...._INDEFINATELY_, with the possible exception of Canada in the War of 1812.


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## Samson (Mar 20, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



I think investing less money in Israel will make all countries see the US in a more positive light. Even France.

Frankly, I'd rather not invest _anything_ in either nation, but I suppose we need to appease those who feel the USA "needs a ME presence" to maintain a "super-power status."


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## Winston Smith (Mar 20, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> There are no true allies between every country, because no 2 countries have all the same views, goals, wants, needs and objectives. US and Israel aren't different. But to say we AMERICA has no allies in the Muslim world is absurd! I would say we have allies in Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq (because they are stabilized!), Pakistan (look what they are doing to woop Al Qaeda), Uzbekistan, Kosovo, Saudi Arabia (we have had good relations for a while), UAE, Kuwait and Qatar.



I don't think complete agreement in the fields you mentioned is a barometer for "true allies". a common basis of principle and moral, even if not completely overlapping, can also create true allies, even when the goals of both countries are not completely similar. i think the US-Israel or the US-UK relations are a good example of that, don't you? another barometer (in my opinion) is popular support, meaning how the ally countries are percieved by the populations of the respective countries, beyond the cost-gain consideration of the moment. in that respect, the US has no better friend ad ally than israel in the middle east.


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## JWBooth (Mar 20, 2010)

Samson said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > There are no true allies between every country, because no 2 countries have all the same views, goals, wants, needs and objectives. US and Israel aren't different. But to say we AMERICA has no allies in the Muslim world is absurd! I would say we have allies in Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq (because they are stabilized!), Pakistan (look what they are doing to woop Al Qaeda), Uzbekistan, Kosovo, Saudi Arabia (we have had good relations for a while), UAE, Kuwait and Qatar.
> ...



Well....there was that little incursion in Murmansk/Arkhangelsk in 1918...that said, I agree with your overall p.o.v.


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## Samson (Mar 20, 2010)

JWBooth said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



Murmansk/Arkhangelsk didn't have any oil or hawt wimmin.

Canada really isn't outside the USA.


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## maineman (Mar 20, 2010)

Samson said:


> maineman said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



based upon? my experience in the region and my years of study of the people who live there.  

And as long as our combat troops occupy their nation against the wishes of the people there, the term "ally" will be disingenuous.  

The shi'ite leadership of Iraq has much closer ties to Iran than it does to America.  The shi'ite majority population of Iraq has a MUCH stronger affinity to their shi'ite brethren in Iran than it does to the infidel invader/occupiers from America.

Clearly, until our troops actually leave, any suggestion as to how Iraq will align itself in the world will only be conjecture, but I happen to believe my opinion is closer to reality than yours in this case.


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## maineman (Mar 20, 2010)

Samson said:


> The USA has never invaded another country without staying...._INDEFINATELY_, with the possible exception of Canada in the War of 1812.



I disagree.  

France...  invaded in June 1944.


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## Samson (Mar 20, 2010)

maineman said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > The USA has never invaded another country without staying...._INDEFINATELY_, with the possible exception of Canada in the War of 1812.
> ...



Debateable, but I'll give it to you it light of the overwhelming number of examples to the contrary.


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## Samson (Mar 20, 2010)

maineman said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > maineman said:
> ...



"Against the wishes of the people there?"

I wasn't aware the Iraqis had held a referendum about US occupation.

If not, you could just as easily say US combat troops occupy Guam (Japan), Germany, Italy, and Korea, all of which would be "disingenuous" allies of the USA. I suppose S. Vietnam was a disingenuos ally? I guess Great Britian was a disingenuous ally?

Or, Do ALL Japanese, Germans, Italians, Koreans welcome US military presence?

It is beyond imagination to conceive that the US has occupied Iraq for almost a decade, and that afterward it will be the exception to the rule.


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## maineman (Mar 20, 2010)

Samson said:


> "Against the wishes of the people there?"
> 
> I wasn't aware the Iraqis had held a referendum about US occupation.
> 
> ...



then you have no imagination.  If you think that Iraq will remain closer to US diplomatically than it will become with Iran upon the departure of our conquering/occupying army, you not only have no imagination, you have no common sense.


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## ekrem (Mar 20, 2010)

maineman said:


> then you have no imagination.  If you think that Iraq will remain closer to US diplomatically than it will become with Iran upon the departure of our conquering/occupying army, you not only have no imagination, you have no common sense.



In Iraq, just like in almost every countries around, there is no middle-class that serves as an ensureing factor for sustainable democracy.
The type of democracy Iraq will be is just a show democracy on election days.
There does not exist a civil society that influences the course of the country. 

The USA redeploys, somehow Iraq will get emancipated, so the leadership of Iraq will try to find its place within the regional net of diplomacy. 
Thereby it will align with a neighbouring country because the conflicting interests in the area are too heavy for Iraq to juggle on its own.


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## ekrem (Mar 20, 2010)

toomuchtime_ said:


> The US has never become involved in a conflict because of its alliance with Israel and there is no likelihood it will in the future.  The US did become involved in two horrendous wars because of its alliances with the UK, France, etc. that cost us huge amounts of money and over 400,000 American lives and the US did become involved in a bloody conflict in Iraq because of its alliances with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE that has cost hundreds of billions of dollars so far with no end in sight and has cost the lives of thousands of American soldiers.  The US alliance with South Korea has cost tens of thousands of American lives and along with our alliance with Japan may yet involve us in a nuclear exchange with North Korea and perhaps a conflict with China.  While the Soviet Union has collapsed, our commitment to defend our western European allies and our allies in eastern Europe may yet involve us in a conflict with a resurgent and increasingly aggressive Russia with potentially horrendous consequences.
> 
> By contrast, the US alliance with Israel is low maintenance.  The US has never had to fight in any of Israel's conflicts; in fact, by twice defeating Soviet client states in Egypt and Syria, Israel relieved the US of the necessity of having to insert troops in the ME to prevent a Soviet advance towards the Gulf, and these Israeli victories set the stage for the US to lock Soviet influence out of the ME from North Africa to the Gulf with the Egypt-Israel peace treaty.  No other US ally made as great a contribution to the US winning the Cold War as Israel did.  In fact, by stopping the Soviet advance towards the Gulf, Israel arguably made a greater contribution to the sovereignty, safety and independence of Jordan and the Gulf nations than any other country in the world other than the US.
> 
> ...



The kind of stability you are talking of is stability for Israel to uphold status-quo. 
Israel by itself is no stabilizing force in the Middle-East. The Opposite. 
Israel is contained within a small strip of Levantine, if it breaks out, it exports instability as it breaks out militarily due to complete lack of soft-power to influence neighbouring socities.
Israeli actions like invading Lebanon or Gaza do not serve stability, but radicalize the region. No matter what you say, this is true and also has effect on US image.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 21, 2010)

ekrem said:


> The kind of stability you are talking of is stability for Israel to uphold status-quo.
> Israel by itself is no stabilizing force in the Middle-East. The Opposite.
> Israel is contained within a small strip of Levantine, if it breaks out, it exports instability as it breaks out militarily due to complete lack of soft-power to influence neighbouring socities.
> Israeli actions like invading Lebanon or Gaza do not serve stability, but radicalize the region. No matter what you say, this is true and also has effect on US image.



Israel's obligation is first and foremost to its own citizens, and both operation cast lead and the 2006 Lebanon war were attempts to achieve deterrence and retrieve kidanpped soldiers. while the latter failed objective did not succeed, the fact is the 3 years after the war the northern front is quiet (for now at least) and rocket fire from gaza has dropped about 70% after operation cast lead. 

Another reason i believe israel is a stabiliyzing force in the region is its existence, which has given arab nations from all over the reason a "common enemy" and prevent them frow warring among themselves, like they have done for centuries beofre 1948 (i am, of course, speaking not only about modern nation-states, but about the the different faiths within islam as well). even the governments that have signed agreements with israel still encourage their population to see israel as an enemy. this allows the arab world to focus on israel and get past their internal divisions. i throughly believe that if israel was not established in 1948 the mid-east would have been a far more volatile region than it is today.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

maineman said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > "Against the wishes of the people there?"
> ...



I'm certainly not surprised you'd think so, having nothing to support your fantastic prediction but the rather ludirous example of "Fance."

On the other hand, I've presented numerous examples of countries that the US has invaded and later became US allies to contradict you.

Why don't you start a thread about your theory? There you might be able to attract others that share your rather vivid imagination. 

Title: Future of Iraq 3000 AD.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> ekrem said:
> 
> 
> > The kind of stability you are talking of is stability for Israel to uphold status-quo.
> ...



If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that the US should ally itself with Israel because  this would make the US as much a regional scape-goat in the region, and that the region benefits from having a scape goat.

And we wonder why there is in peace in the ME.

I wonder why the US doesn't export this diplomatic model worldwide: We could ally ourselves with the most despised of African Nations!! The USA could begin sending more economic aid the the most hated of South American Countries!!


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## Winston Smith (Mar 21, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > ekrem said:
> ...



No that wasn't what is was saying that the US should support Israel because it would make the US a regional scape goat. . I was saying that _regardless_ of of US backing, Israel is the scape goat of the region, and it's mere presence serves as a unifying influence to the arab world by giving them a "common enemy", and is therefore a stabilizing factor. For ME nations, the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a motto to live by, and Israel (unintentionally) is that unifying enemy.

The reason why the is hated by ME countries is not its support of Israel (or at least them as not the chief "accusation"). the main reasons are their support for repressive governments such as egypt (not to mention that these are seen as heretic governments by jihadist radicals) and the presence of US forces all over the region.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > Winston Smith said:
> ...



So you're saying the US should support Israel ...........because the region needs a scapegoat.

You realise that the USA becomes a scapegoat too, right?

I'm still trying to grasp why the USA would want to become a scapegoat for the region? How does this benefit the USA?


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## Winston Smith (Mar 21, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...



Also not what i was saying. If Israel is the regional scapegoat_ regardelss_ of US support, then this isn't a consideration in the relationship.

Nevertheless, if the US wants to keep its global leadership role, it needs to keep true allies in every region. in the ME, Israel is pretty much the only choice. Yes, Egypt and Jordan are also US allies, but alliances are based not only on a pure give and take calculationsm but also on on common values, cultural similarities etc. In that respect, for the US, Israel is the only viable option.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Samson said:
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It isn't a consideration?

I disagree. I see no reason for the USA to seek alliances with regional scapegoats.

Like I've already pointed out, if this were a successful diplomatic strategy, then why not seek out alliance with the most despised African Nation? Why not send the most aid to the most hated country in South America?


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## mdn2000 (Mar 21, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
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Samson, is that all you do, make shit up and attribute it to the person you are engaged with. This is not debate, its Flameing

That right, all you do is Flame, take a word or two and make something up, than samson proceeds to talk down to samson's opponent, a clever way of flameing everyone you disagree with


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Samson said:
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Are you on the rag?


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## Winston Smith (Mar 21, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
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You are operating under the false assumption that if the US were not to support Israel, they would be well likedm or even tolerated, in the region.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Samson said:
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You think the USA would be "tolerated" less is they took the aid that currently goes to Israel and sent it to Gaza?

Why?


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## Tariq (Mar 21, 2010)

If Israel tells American's to support her actions then America supports. America is the slave of Israel. You give Israel enough money each year to fund your Health Care 100%.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 21, 2010)

Samson said:


> Winston Smith said:
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I have already mentioned the other reasons while the arab world hates the USA, and support for Israel is at the bottom of the list. that is why i think that even had the US discontinued support of Israel, it would not help one bit. 

Besides, between 2000 and 2008  the US has given the palestinians more than $2.5 bn. without it making even an inkling of the positive affect on palestinian sentiment toward the US. And, even if it had, it would not change the feeling of the rest of the arab world towards the US.


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## Tariq (Mar 21, 2010)

Well put Winston. By the way are you Jewish ?


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## Jos (Mar 21, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> , between 2000 and 2008  the US has given the palestinians more than $2.5 bn. without it making even an inkling of the positive affect on palestinian sentiment toward the US. And, even if it had, it would not change the feeling of the rest of the arab world towards the US.


I call Bull shit, America may have bribed some pali stooges, but none of that money went to the people


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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I'd really like you to substantiate at least a couple of your broad generalizations:

1. The Arab World Hates the USA
2. The Last reason The Arab World Hates the USA is because the USA supports Israel
3. Palestinians have received $2.5B from the USA
4. $2.5B has not changed Palestinian sentiment toward the USA
5. $2.5B would not change Arab sentiment toward the USA outside Palestine

Much of this could easily be dismissed as Israeli propaganda unless you have some unbias source to support these claims.


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## GHook93 (Mar 21, 2010)

Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel, it won't matter. It didn't help the Soviets, who were outright against Israel. Doesn't help Europe nowadays who don't support Israel any differently then they support any other country in the Middle East. 

If the US cut off Israel, we would initially see praise in the Arab and Muslim world, but it would soon be forgotten and they would find other reasons for jihad!



Winston Smith said:


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel, it won't matter. It didn't help the Soviets, who were outright against Israel. Doesn't help Europe nowadays who don't support Israel any differently then they support any other country in the Middle East.
> 
> If the US cut off Israel, we would initially see praise in the Arab and Muslim world, but it would soon be forgotten and they would find other reasons for jihad!



Interesting point made here: If the US supported Israel as much as....Sweden, for example, then why would Arabs/Muslims find other reasons for "Jihad" more with the USA than Sweden?


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## Neubarth (Mar 21, 2010)

Samson said:


> GHook93 said:
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> > Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel, it won't matter. It didn't help the Soviets, who were outright against Israel. Doesn't help Europe nowadays who don't support Israel any differently then they support any other country in the Middle East.
> ...


I think we have tremendous ignorance of the Islamic Faith.  I have spent many years in Asia.  Islam is the scourge of that continent.  They had one and one half thousand year of history of cutting people's heads off, and destroying everything and anything that they can destroy in the name of Allah.  In Iran during that millenia and a half, they are estimated to have killed between nine and ten million people of the Jewish faith.  That was the greatest Holocaust in world history.  The German killing of only six million Jews was small by comparison.  Ahmedinejad makes fun of the paltry German holocaust because it does not compare to what the Iranians did.  Remember the Islamic faith demands that they kill Jews.  In the so called Islamic last days their prophets claim that even the trees will cry out  telling the Islamic warriors where the Jews are hiding so their throats can be slit.  What a totally evil religion Islam has shown itself to be.  All you have to do is look at history to know the truth.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

Neubarth said:


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Um...thanks for dropping by.....but we're not debating whether or not Islam is an "Evil Religion."

Maybe you could begin a thread in which you could share a relevent thought?


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## Kalam (Mar 21, 2010)

Neubarth said:


> I think we have tremendous ignorance of the Islamic Faith.


After reading your post, I agree. You certainly do.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 21, 2010)

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Samson, that is rich coming from you, Samson is far from on topic even 50% of the time, further you have enough posts to know threads hardly stay on topic, like when you wanted to know about my private parts you have asked about in this thread and others.

Samson's way of belitteling and flameing members.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 21, 2010)

We support Israel because we are Christians, it is written.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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George Michael wants to know how much longer will you be on the rag?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2010)

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The money the US gives to "Palestine" only hurts the Palestinians and is given to protect Israel.


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## Samson (Mar 21, 2010)

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Huh?

You're confusing ridiculous blather for a meaningful thought.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2010)

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Virtually all the money that goes to "Palestine" goes to "security forces" nominally under the control of Abbas but not under the control of the Palestinian government. The control is under US General Keith Dayton and is coordinated with the Israeli Military. It is their job to protect Israel.


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## ekrem (Mar 21, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> Another reason *i believe* israel is a stabiliyzing force


This is not an issue about believe.
It is about available options of actions and course of action.
So, simple question:
Which action by Israel has served stability?
This is very cynical to describe the actions of Israel as stabilizing.



			
				Neubarth said:
			
		

> I think we have tremendous ignorance of the Islamic Faith.  I have spent many years in Asia.  Islam is the scourge of that continent.  They had one and one half thousand year of history of cutting people's heads off, and destroying everything and anything that they can destroy in the name of Allah.


Out of Asia, especially Central Asia, came the world's best breed of people having introduced the business of - as you say - "cutting people's head off".
Independent from any kind of religion.
Applying an analysis of this "business" to people with Islamic faith within historical context, you will see, that not every tribe/nation of Islamic faith did particularily well in this business. This honour was reserved only to few. 
A varying degree of Violence within Islamic history can only be tied to varying representatives of Islam that dominated each epoch.





GHook93 said:


> Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel,* it won't matter.*


You know it yourself that this is an illusional feel-good statement.
Was it not you, that called user Kalam a sand-nigga? If USA drops Israel you will - if there is a concept of sand nigga classification in the applying brain - come out to be just an average Middle-Eastern sand-nigga that has to make a decision either to upkeep its current socio-economic standard or its level of militarization. Both at same time is not within your capability, it is currently sponsored for you. 

Also there are many US lackeys around of Israel, and USA itself serves as as a fragmentation force for any kind of note-worthy anti-Israelian block-building within these lackeys.
Preferential relations with USA is for Israel a rule-setter for Israel's position within the region.


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## ekrem (Mar 21, 2010)

The Marshall Plan for Europe had to current values a size of 120 Billion $.
Total Europe.
Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - The Marshall Plan

According to USA embassy in Italy, US aid to Israel has reached as of 2004 a size of 93 Billion $.
http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/IB85066.pdf

How much universities, how much Kilometers of roads do you build with that money?
No money, no honey. Even I learned that when dating materialistic teenage girls in the youth.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 21, 2010)

Samson said:


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Take it out of your mouth and tell him yourself


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## Neubarth (Mar 22, 2010)

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You obviously are very low IQ, sampson.  The initial theme was US support of Israel. The question then arrises as to why the American people who have an opinion so openly support Israel. I and everybody I know fully support Israel because we know how totally evil Islam is. It is easily the ugliest gutter religion in world history always calling for the death of anybody who is not submissive to Ba'Allah, the satanic god who constantly requires human blood sacrifice.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 22, 2010)

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1. As for the hate the arab world has for the US. I believe the celebrations across the arab and muslim world after 9/11 is proof enough. however, to show you that this hatred is still there, here are a few examples, which also answer point 5:

MEMRI: Faraeen TV: US Second Civilization to Be Founded on Blood
MEMRI: Egyptian Expert on African Affairs Ibrahim Nasr Al-Din: US Sponsors Somali Piracy
MEMRI: Hamas Leader Khaled Mash'al: Arab and Muslim Leaders Should Use Iraqi and Afghan Resistance to Intimidate the U.S.
Lebanese Journalist Hassan Hamada: US Artificially Caused Haiti Earthquake

2. The grivences of the arab world against the US were best describe by Abdallah Azam during the 1980s, and were recapped the a book called "From Kabul To Jerusalem" published by Dr. Asaf Maliach and  Dr. Shaul Shay. A Thourugh read in "Studies in Conflict & Terrorism" Magazine can also help. 

3. The data concerning US financial support if the PA was taken from the US Census Bureau


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## Winston Smith (Mar 22, 2010)

Samson said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Be honest the US's support of Israel is more toward the top. But I agree if the US cut off Israel, it won't matter. It didn't help the Soviets, who were outright against Israel. Doesn't help Europe nowadays who don't support Israel any differently then they support any other country in the Middle East.
> ...



You mean if the US was completely anti-israel, as sweden is? yes i guess palestinians would like them more. didn't help Denmark in 2007, though, did it?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 22, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 22, 2010)

ekrem said:


> Winston Smith said:
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> ...



A. you can switch the words "i believe" with "in my opinion". and international politics is all about opinion. not to mention USMB.

B. two actions Israel has done that have served the stability of the region: peace with Egypt and Jordan. When Israel has a partner for peace, it has no qualms about signing a peace accord.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 22, 2010)

ekrem said:


> The Marshall Plan for Europe had to current values a size of 120 Billion $.
> Total Europe.
> Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - The Marshall Plan
> 
> ...



First of all, The marshall plan funds were given over a period of three years. while the $93 bn you mention were given spread out for over 60 years. the comparison is not in place. Second of all, During the same time many other counties have recieved billions of dollars in foreign aid, including Egypt, which recieved $63bn.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 22, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Didn't expect anything else from you. 

when pushkin said "Better the illusions that exalt us than 10000 truths" he was thinking about people like you.


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## Samson (Mar 22, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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I don't know about MEMRI's unbias reporting.

But I think its a little silly to say "The Arab World Hates the USA" on one hand, and on the other ignore the Arab/US coalition forces that worked together to liberate Kuwait. It seems Winston is willing to see that the "glass is half empty." This is also illustrated with the _FACT_ that the USA contributed to the PA, but the his _INTERPRETATION_ is that it has no effect. Where is the evidence that US aid to the PA has had no effect?

And I still see reason to believe that the MAIN Grievance Arabs have with the USA is the continued support for Israel.


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## Samson (Mar 22, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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Sweden is "anti-Israel?"

I don't think so. They're neutral. But don't let that get in the way of your bias.

Denmark 2007? I wasn't aware Amsterdam had suffered a rocket attack luanched from Gaza during 2007?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 22, 2010)

Samson said:


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The Palestinians in Gaza dedicated a childrens center to Rachel Corrie, A US citizen. Another smaller memorial for her was dedicated in the West Bank. Now they are naming a street in Rafah after her.

How can they honor someone from a place they hate?


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## mdn2000 (Mar 22, 2010)

Samson said:


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But you are aware of the problems in Denmark in regards to Moslems, right.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 22, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> We support Israel because we are Christians, it is written.



Being a Christian myself, it saddens me greatly to watch Israel destroy the Holy Land.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 22, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Its not about the people and what they do, its about the politicians and the Imans, people of all faiths follow said faith in various degrees but those who seek power and are at the higher echlons of the Arab world as in leaders in politics and the religion of Islam are much different than ordinary people, this is the problem, until those of the USA quit stereotyping all Arabs the problem will continue. 

Until the USA quits appeasing the Sunnis the problem will continue. 

You know why Iran hates us so, it because we make Sunnis strong.

One side must win, we play both sides, we must choose, thats as simple as it gets and it is no more complicated.

Appeasing both sides continues war, death, and tyranny.


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## Marc39 (Mar 22, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
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Israel rescued the Holy Land from Muslim neglect and disrespect.


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## ekrem (Mar 22, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


> ekrem said:
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> > The Marshall Plan for Europe had to current values a size of 120 Billion $.
> ...



Actual Marshall-Plan was to yesteryears hard currency between 13 and 17 Billion $. 
To actual values it transforms to 120 Billion $.

The link from the US embassy just shows cumulative Aids to Israel without adjusting the 93 Billion $ up to 2004 to its current values. Just giving a cumulative value. 

Now if you ask me, pumping about 93 Billion $ in cumulative value into a nation of 7 Million people is sensational. 
Also do not forget that Israel has a free-trade agreement with the biggest consumer market on the planet (USA). 
USA just has free-trade agreements with 17 nations. 
Some of these 17 nations are e.g:

Costa Rica
Dominican Rep
Guatemala
Honduras
Nicaragua
El Salvador
Oman
</title> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16825" name="GENERATOR" /> <link rel="stylesheet" href="../build/fragments/fl_eg_stylesheets/exp_master.css" type="text/css"></link> <link rel="stylesheet" href="../build/fragments/fl_eg_stylesheets/rnavimage.

Those above countries aint even note-worthy nations of economic size. 
You have to be very gratefull for the free-trade agreement with USA.



> including Egypt, which recieved $63bn.


Egyptian population is more then 10 times bigger then Israel. 
Israel has to build for a 100% penetration rate of schools for its population maybe 1.000 schools. Egypt has to build 10.000 schools.
So whereas Egypt is still building schools, Israel is investing in universities.

For the same per capita benefits to equal Israel and Egypt, Egypt had to receive more then 930 Billion $ of cumulative aid.
Anyway 63 Billion $ of aid for Egypt is also substantial, in case of Israel it is sensational.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 22, 2010)

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By running the Christians out of their native land?


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## Marc39 (Mar 22, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Muslims, not Jews, are running Christians out of their native land, Forum Dunce.

Pre-Islam, most of the Middle East and North Africa was Christian.  Today, it's mostly Muslim, Christians having been forcibly converted or slaughtered.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/world/middleeast/13christians.html?_r=2

You are the Forum Dunce.


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## mdn2000 (Mar 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Mouth69, the Jew bigot, or marc39 as he calls himself, you challenged me and you posted pure bullshit, how come your posting here instead of here:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-middle-east-general/101840-does-isreal-build-on-deeded-land-for-illegal-settelements-14.html

Mouth69 cuts and pastes, thats all, when proven wrong mouth69 (marc39) hides from his errors. Mouth69 is the forum dunce

Marc39 did not know what the San Remo resolution was and did, Mouth69 (marc39) called the resolution a treaty and than misunderstood what the Palistine Mandate was. Now he ignores the thread


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## mdn2000 (Mar 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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More pure bullshit mouth69 cannot defend, just as dumbass called a resolution a treaty and in a gross error misunderstood the San Remo Conference and the Palestine mandate. Its easy to see how mouth69 can make another glaring error in light of mouth69's (marc39) previous errors.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 23, 2010)

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Why is it that every media outlet that takes an anti-israel approach is automatically recognized as legitimate, and every media outlet that takes anything close to a pro-israel stand is automatically suspect?

but to anser your question, the FACT that the US has financially supported the PA is no secret and is easy to prove. however, it is not like a Free Speach society exists in either the West Bank or Gaza Strip, so there are no reliable surveys that can be called upon. All i have to go on is my personal talks with Palestinians i have met in my life, which point to what i've said. you can either believe me or not on the issue. your choice. 

and on the "which grievence is higher up the list" issue, i'm willing to concede that it is more of a personal issue that changes from one palestinian to another, which of the three grievences is higher up on the list.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 23, 2010)

Samson said:


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actually, amsterdam in in the Netherlands, not Denmark. 

I was speaking about the 2007 riots that took place all over the arab world and the attacks on danish embassies following the mohammad caricatures "scandal", as an example for religous fanatics that do not care if you're pro-israel or anti-israel. you're an infidel. period.


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## Winston Smith (Mar 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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you mean how could they honor someone who hated the US and everything it stands for? truly a mistery....


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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ISSA NAKHLEH was a Palestinian Christian, born in the Shepherd's Field in Palestine. He was a graduate of the London University (LL.B. ) and a Barrister at Law of the on our able Society of Lincoln's Inn, London. He was a member of the Palestine Bar and a member of many Bar associations in the Arab World.

I first met Issa Nakhleh more than fifteen years ago while he was still busily researching for his two volume "Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem". I learnt first hand of his personal history, a palestinian, a refugee, a man who had lost everything he had had. His house, his law office, his apartment house in Jerusalem and a banana plantation were, as he describes "usurped by the Zionists and Israeli war criminals ". A man's roots had been cut.

Start of: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem


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## Winston Smith (Mar 23, 2010)

ekrem said:


> Winston Smith said:
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the notion that foriegn aid has anything to do with population numbers is absurd and naive. it has first and foremost to do with politics. do you think it is a coincidence that US foreign aid to egypt started to increase after 1979? no, it was a direct result of the Camp David peace accords, and has absolutely nothing to do with egypt's population.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 23, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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I don't think you are correct. She did not like many US policies but that is very common viewing some of those policies. Striving to improve your country is more patriotic than a sign of hate.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 23, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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President Carter promised Egypt $2B a year to support Israel. That money directly benefits Israel and should be added to Israel's aid from the US.


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## Marc39 (Mar 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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You are the Forum Dunce.


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## Marc39 (Mar 23, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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Except, you are unable to factually refute me.   You babble like a mental patient.


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## Marc39 (Mar 23, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


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The San Remo Resolution is a treaty between the World War I Allies, Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan establishing Palestine as the Jewish National Home.

You are an incoherent mental patient.


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## Samson (Mar 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> mdn2000 said:
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To ignore or not to ignore.........


That is the question.........



[Add a Member to Your List...]

[Marc39]

[OK]


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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You have still not answered why the Zionists accepted a part of Palestine in 1947 when the received the whole pie 25 years earlier.


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## rhodescholar (Mar 28, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> i do not.
> 
> we give them way too much money...and call them the underdog...i am against funnelling money into any countries....like we do israel...i for one, believe they knew they were bombing the uss liberty...i will believe the sailors who served this country over the government of a foreign country.  we are simply the stupid cash cow for them....
> 
> this is why christians ignore the part of the bible where jesus says he came only for the jews and jump on the part that says blessed are those who help the jews....



Who gives a shit what an asshole like you thinks, you fucking trash?  

USS Liberty?  Got any more conspiracy BS to throw our way, you old fucking hag?


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## Kalam (Mar 28, 2010)

Hey, it's ChodeSwallower, back from the dead!


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## Winston Smith (Mar 31, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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That is true - trying to improve your country is an admirable thing. however, i do not think that is what rachel corrie was trying to do. if you want to improve your country you do it from within that country (even if not from within the system itself). you do not travel to the thousands of miles and burn your countrie's flag. that is not an attempt to improve anything. that is pure hate.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 31, 2010)

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Personally, I only believe in burning the flag when there is a traitor wrapped in it.

I also believe that if Rachel was killed by ...say...Iran under the same circumstances, She would be your hero. The only people who criticize  Rachel carry water for Israel.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 31, 2010)

Winston Smith said:


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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Ok6apsHlg]YouTube - Arundhati Roy DroppingKnowledge.org[/ame]


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