# we cannot deport 11 million people



## LilOlLady (Feb 11, 2013)

*WE CANNOT DEPORT 11 MILLION PEOPLE
WE HAVE TO PUT THEM ON A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP*

Left wing BS. We can do anything we want to do. We dont have to do anything we dont want to do. How do we deport 11 million people in the country illegally? Simple. E-Verify. If they cannot work they will self deport. Like a million have done already with their children. Whom we refuse to deport because they are innocent little children who were brought here by no fault of their own and this is the only country they have ever know? More left wing B.S. They are citizens of Mexico. They know the language because they parents do not bother to learn English. They know the culture, how to eat tacos and burritos and celebrate Cinco De Mayo each year. We also can repeal Automatic Birth Citizenship for children of illegal aliens retroactive that is exacerbating the illegal immigration problem. Have a anchor baby is like hitting the lottery. It qualifies a family for welfare money, food stamps, medicaid and public housing and anchor an illegal family to the country. Most are low income earner who pay no income taxes (how can we collect back taxes from people who pay no taxes?) but receive earned tax credits and child credits refunds. Businesses are addicted to cheap labor and Comp. Immig. Reform. will not change that. 

Comp. Immig. Reform is about nothing more than politics. Not about compassion or anyones love for little anchor babies and their parents. 

*You can B.S. some of the people some of the time but cannot B.S. all the people all they time.*


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## LilOlLady (Feb 11, 2013)

We cannot fix a broken immigration system until we enforce our immigration laws, secure the border and repeal Automatic Birthright Citizenship for children of illegal aliens. If we don't we will be back here in 20 years with 11 million more illegal aliens because Comp. Immig. Reform Amnesty will only invite more illegal aliens and more anchor babies.


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## FartyMcBragg (Feb 11, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> *WE CANNOT DEPORT 11 MILLION PEOPLE
> WE HAVE TO PUT THEM ON A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP*
> 
> Left wing BS. We can do anything we want to do. We dont have to do anything we dont want to do. How do we deport 11 million people in the country illegally? Simple. E-Verify. If they cannot work they will self deport. Like a million have done already with their children. Whom we refuse to deport because they are innocent little children who were brought here by no fault of their own and this is the only country they have ever know? More left wing B.S. They are citizens of Mexico. They know the language because they parents do not bother to learn English. They know the culture, how to eat tacos and burritos and celebrate Cinco De Mayo each year. We also can repeal Automatic Birth Citizenship for children of illegal aliens retroactive that is exacerbating the illegal immigration problem. Have a anchor baby is like hitting the lottery. It qualifies a family for welfare money, food stamps, medicaid and public housing and anchor an illegal family to the country. Most are low income earner who pay no income taxes (how can we collect back taxes from people who pay no taxes?) but receive earned tax credits and child credits refunds. Businesses are addicted to cheap labor and Comp. Immig. Reform. will not change that.
> ...



When my grand parents lived in Poland they never saw what the people who did what they wanted to do were doing. They didn't ask questions. The smoke and the smells? Blech! It was Poland.

Those people may have lived their but they were never really citizens.


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## Zoom-boing (Feb 11, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> We cannot fix a broken immigration system until we enforce our immigration laws, secure the border and repeal Automatic Birthright Citizenship for children of illegal aliens. If we don't we will be back here in 20 years with 11 million more illegal aliens because Comp. Immig. Reform Amnesty will only invite more illegal aliens and more anchor babies.



Agreed.  However, they will never enforce the laws we have, either side.  Next best thing?  Put them on a path to citizenship, stiff fines, back of the line, and they can never, ever vote.  Oh, and fine the shit out of those businesses who employ illegals.


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## Flopper (Feb 11, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> *WE CANNOT DEPORT 11 MILLION PEOPLE
> WE HAVE TO PUT THEM ON A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP*
> 
> Left wing BS. We can do anything we want to do. We dont have to do anything we dont want to do. How do we deport 11 million people in the country illegally? Simple. E-Verify. If they cannot work they will self deport. Like a million have done already with their children. Whom we refuse to deport because they are innocent little children who were brought here by no fault of their own and this is the only country they have ever know? More left wing B.S. They are citizens of Mexico. They know the language because they parents do not bother to learn English. They know the culture, how to eat tacos and burritos and celebrate Cinco De Mayo each year. We also can repeal Automatic Birth Citizenship for children of illegal aliens retroactive that is exacerbating the illegal immigration problem. Have a anchor baby is like hitting the lottery. It qualifies a family for welfare money, food stamps, medicaid and public housing and anchor an illegal family to the country. Most are low income earner who pay no income taxes (how can we collect back taxes from people who pay no taxes?) but receive earned tax credits and child credits refunds. Businesses are addicted to cheap labor and Comp. Immig. Reform. will not change that.
> ...


We can but we won't because the people in this country won't stand for it.  I also doubt Mexico would except a mass deportation.


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## FartyMcBragg (Feb 11, 2013)

People who cannot abide by rules on the internet expect others to abide by rules on immigration? Absurd! Obscene! I demand a sanity test as a predicate for posting on immigration  issues!


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## Papawx3 (Feb 11, 2013)

Those on the left want to confiscate 250 million legal weapons from the hands of law abiding citizens, but they want us to believe we can't round up and deport 11 million illegal aliens? Anyone else see just a hint of hypocrisy here?


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## LilOlLady (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoom-boing said:


> LilOlLady said:
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> > We cannot fix a broken immigration system until we enforce our immigration laws, secure the border and repeal Automatic Birthright Citizenship for children of illegal aliens. If we don't we will be back here in 20 years with 11 million more illegal aliens because Comp. Immig. Reform Amnesty will only invite more illegal aliens and more anchor babies.
> ...



We will never see any fines. They will plead "hardship" and be exempt. No back taxes because they never paid any income taxes. Back of the line they don't give a f--- about anyway. There will be no illegal to hire, They will all be legal. The entire thing is a joke and about nothing but politics and votes.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 11, 2013)

FartyMcBragg said:


> People who cannot abide by *rules on the internet *expect others to abide by *rules on immigration*? Absurd! Obscene! I demand a sanity test as a predicate for posting on immigration  issues!




Breaking the rules on the internet is not a crime. Illegal immigration is a federal crime with punishment of fines, deportation and jail time.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 11, 2013)

Flopper said:


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Majority of americans, hispanic americans also, want our immigration laws enfordced by rounding them  up and deporting them yesterday,


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## Zoom-boing (Feb 12, 2013)

Papawx3 said:


> Those on the left want to confiscate 250 million legal weapons from the hands of law abiding citizens, but they want us to believe we can't round up and deport 11 million illegal aliens? Anyone else see just a hint of hypocrisy here?



"Can't" means "won't".


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## Moonglow (Feb 12, 2013)

Jail time for employers that hire the illegals.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

We are not going to create a police state to get rid of illegals, lady.

Now get over it, please.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 12, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> We will never see any fines. They will plead "hardship" and be exempt. No back taxes because they never paid any income taxes. Back of the line they don't give a f--- about anyway. There will be no illegal to hire, They will all be legal. The entire thing is a joke and about nothing but politics and votes.



Why are you complaining?  You voted for it.


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## Flopper (Feb 12, 2013)

Undocumented immigrants are here because of 50 years of unsecured boarders, unfair immigration policies, and laws and regulation that can not be enforced.  To solve the problem we have deal with the cause of the problem not the result.  The 11 million will be absorbed, not deported because it's simply not practical to do so.


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## tjvh (Feb 12, 2013)

First off, if they say there are 11 million undocumented aliens then there are probably more like 18 million undocumented aliens. So some people support making them citizens should ask themselves, *what is going to be the first thing these illegals do when we grant them citizenship*? All in the name of a "feel good" vote buying moment... That's right, *form the longest lines you have ever seen at a Welfare office near you.* Sorry folks... We cannot afford them, and it's our duty to make them as uncomfortable as possible so they go home... *Their home.* Then we can spend our Tax dollars on supporting our own people and their children, not illegals who disrespect our Laws and drain away our resources. Rather than use illegals as pawns for votes *that we cannot afford*, we need to make their lives so miserable that they will want to go back to their own countries on their own. That means coming down hard on businesses who employ them, and not giving them perks like drivers licenses, or even worse... Health care, and Educations paid for at the Taxpayer's expense.


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## Spoonman (Feb 12, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> *WE CANNOT DEPORT 11 MILLION PEOPLE
> WE HAVE TO PUT THEM ON A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP*
> 
> Left wing BS. We can do anything we want to do. We dont have to do anything we dont want to do. How do we deport 11 million people in the country illegally? Simple. E-Verify. If they cannot work they will self deport. Like a million have done already with their children. Whom we refuse to deport because they are innocent little children who were brought here by no fault of their own and this is the only country they have ever know? More left wing B.S. They are citizens of Mexico. They know the language because they parents do not bother to learn English. They know the culture, how to eat tacos and burritos and celebrate Cinco De Mayo each year. We also can repeal Automatic Birth Citizenship for children of illegal aliens retroactive that is exacerbating the illegal immigration problem. Have a anchor baby is like hitting the lottery. It qualifies a family for welfare money, food stamps, medicaid and public housing and anchor an illegal family to the country. Most are low income earner who pay no income taxes (how can we collect back taxes from people who pay no taxes?) but receive earned tax credits and child credits refunds. Businesses are addicted to cheap labor and Comp. Immig. Reform. will not change that.
> ...



cut off their entitlements and free ride and we won't have to worry about deporting them.  they'll deport themselves


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## healing4all (Feb 12, 2013)

Hire and pay them (as they're going back home} to build the Great wall of America.


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> *WE CANNOT DEPORT 11 MILLION PEOPLE
> WE HAVE TO PUT THEM ON A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP*
> 
> Left wing BS. We can do anything we want to do. We dont have to do anything we dont want to do. How do we deport 11 million people in the country illegally? Simple. E-Verify. If they cannot work they will self deport. Like a million have done already with their children. Whom we refuse to deport because they are innocent little children who were brought here by no fault of their own and this is the only country they have ever know? More left wing B.S. They are citizens of Mexico. They know the language because they parents do not bother to learn English. They know the culture, how to eat tacos and burritos and celebrate *Cinco De Mayo* each year. We also can repeal Automatic Birth Citizenship for children of illegal aliens retroactive that is exacerbating the illegal immigration problem. Have a anchor baby is like hitting the lottery. It qualifies a family for welfare money, food stamps, medicaid and public housing and anchor an illegal family to the country. Most are low income earner who pay no income taxes (how can we collect back taxes from people who pay no taxes?) but receive earned tax credits and child credits refunds. Businesses are addicted to cheap labor and Comp. Immig. Reform. will not change that.
> ...



You know, it is really sad.  Cinco De Mayo, while it did really happen in history isn't celebrated in Mexico, or wasn't until it was introduced by an American beer company as an excuse to drink beer.  Mexico does have their own Independence day, that's in September, not May and the Mexicans here don't celebrate that, no, they celebrate a holiday basically made up by an American beer company.  How stupid can you get?


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

tjvh said:


> First off, if they say there are 11 million undocumented aliens then there are probably more like 18 million undocumented aliens. So some people support making them citizens should ask themselves, *what is going to be the first thing these illegals do when we grant them citizenship*? All in the name of a "feel good" vote buying moment... That's right, *form the longest lines you have ever seen at a Welfare office near you.* Sorry folks... We cannot afford them, and it's our duty to make them as uncomfortable as possible so they go home... *Their home.* Then we can spend our Tax dollars on supporting our own people and their children, not illegals who disrespect our Laws and drain away our resources. Rather than use illegals as pawns for votes *that we cannot afford*, we need to make their lives so miserable that they will want to go back to their own countries on their own. That means coming down hard on businesses who employ them, and not giving them perks like drivers licenses, or even worse... Health care, and Educations paid for at the Taxpayer's expense.



They're already getting welfare.  The women have kids so they can get welfare.  They may be married by the church or they may be married in Mexico but the claim to be single here so they can get more money.  The "husband" works under the table and pays no income taxes, or if he does, he's stolen someone's social security number.  It could even be his own kid's.  And by "Mexico" I'm talking about pretty much all the countries south of the border.  We have illegals from other nations and they bring problems as well.  The Irish Travelers for instance.  Basically gypsies who will go door to door trying to find a roof to fix, get half up front, rip off a few shingles and then vanish.  

Each country has it's own culture and each illegal brings problems from their own country with them.  There is a reason they have to come here illegally, because no one in their right minds would let them come legally.  To make these people legal is a slap in the face to all the legal immigrants in this nation and much worse the the millions of people who were denied entry to this country and didn't break in anyway.


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


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The only good thing to be said, if they are made legal, they will get rights from those business who've been taking advantage of them and the low skilled Americans will once again be able to get jobs because the companies won't be able to threaten the illegals with deportation anymore and the field will be more equal when it comes to finding jobs for the low skilled workers.


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## Spoonman (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


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or those business will just hire a new batch off illegals and unemployment grows


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## Flopper (Feb 12, 2013)

tjvh said:


> First off, if they say there are 11 million undocumented aliens then there are probably more like 18 million undocumented aliens. So some people support making them citizens should ask themselves, *what is going to be the first thing these illegals do when we grant them citizenship*? All in the name of a "feel good" vote buying moment... That's right, *form the longest lines you have ever seen at a Welfare office near you.* Sorry folks... We cannot afford them, and it's our duty to make them as uncomfortable as possible so they go home... *Their home.* Then we can spend our Tax dollars on supporting our own people and their children, not illegals who disrespect our Laws and drain away our resources. Rather than use illegals as pawns for votes *that we cannot afford*, we need to make their lives so miserable that they will want to go back to their own countries on their own. That means coming down hard on businesses who employ them, and not giving them perks like drivers licenses, or even worse... Health care, and Educations paid for at the Taxpayer's expense.



If you look at the facts about undocumented immigrants, the reality is quite different than the picture drawn by the right wing.   The educational level of illegal immigrants is increasing.  Almost half have completed high school and a quarter of them have at least some college.  90% of the adult population is employed.  Most employed illegal immigrants pay income tax as well as sales tax.  They also pay social security even though they are not eligible for benefits.  By law, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for any form of welfare except emergency medical treatment.

IMHO, the erroneous image of illegal immigrants exist because people determine in their minds who is illegal by skin color, language, and appearance.  If you walk into a welfare office in southern Calif. you are likely to see a lot of dark skin poor people with poor language skills.  It's very easy to make the assumption that they're all illegals which is of course not so.

Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

tjvh said:


> First off, if they say there are 11 million undocumented aliens then there are probably more like 18 million undocumented aliens. So some people support making them citizens should ask themselves, *what is going to be the first thing these illegals do when we grant them citizenship*? All in the name of a "feel good" vote buying moment... That's right, *form the longest lines you have ever seen at a Welfare office near you.* Sorry folks... We cannot afford them, and it's our duty to make them as uncomfortable as possible so they go home... *Their home.* Then we can spend our Tax dollars on supporting our own people and their children, not illegals who disrespect our Laws and drain away our resources. Rather than use illegals as pawns for votes *that we cannot afford*, we need to make their lives so miserable that they will want to go back to their own countries on their own. That means coming down hard on businesses who employ them, and not giving them perks like drivers licenses, or even worse... Health care, and Educations paid for at the Taxpayer's expense.



Far more American whites are on welfare than minorities, hmmm?


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

Spoonman said:


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a good point as everytime amnesty has been passed we've had a corresponding increase of illegal immigration.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Spoonman said:


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Not if we tighten the border first to manage a trickle instead of a torrent.  First.


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> tjvh said:
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> > First off, if they say there are 11 million undocumented aliens then there are probably more like 18 million undocumented aliens. So some people support making them citizens should ask themselves, *what is going to be the first thing these illegals do when we grant them citizenship*? All in the name of a "feel good" vote buying moment... That's right, *form the longest lines you have ever seen at a Welfare office near you.* Sorry folks... We cannot afford them, and it's our duty to make them as uncomfortable as possible so they go home... *Their home.* Then we can spend our Tax dollars on supporting our own people and their children, not illegals who disrespect our Laws and drain away our resources. Rather than use illegals as pawns for votes *that we cannot afford*, we need to make their lives so miserable that they will want to go back to their own countries on their own. That means coming down hard on businesses who employ them, and not giving them perks like drivers licenses, or even worse... Health care, and Educations paid for at the Taxpayer's expense.
> ...



How would you know?  Aren't Hispanics classified as whites?  I mean what about Zimmerman?  Then their are the Russians who are here illegally, they're classified as whites.  In fact, I haven't seen a breakdown of TANF by race in many, many years.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are not going to create a police state to get rid of illegals, lady.



No, you're creating a police state to get rid of civil liberties. Your shameful party actually encourages illegal immigration. 



> Now get over it, please.


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

Flopper said:


> tjvh said:
> 
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> > First off, if they say there are 11 million undocumented aliens then there are probably more like 18 million undocumented aliens. So some people support making them citizens should ask themselves, *what is going to be the first thing these illegals do when we grant them citizenship*? All in the name of a "feel good" vote buying moment... That's right, *form the longest lines you have ever seen at a Welfare office near you.* Sorry folks... We cannot afford them, and it's our duty to make them as uncomfortable as possible so they go home... *Their home.* Then we can spend our Tax dollars on supporting our own people and their children, not illegals who disrespect our Laws and drain away our resources. Rather than use illegals as pawns for votes *that we cannot afford*, we need to make their lives so miserable that they will want to go back to their own countries on their own. That means coming down hard on businesses who employ them, and not giving them perks like drivers licenses, or even worse... Health care, and Educations paid for at the Taxpayer's expense.
> ...



When my kids were old enough to qualify for SSI on their own, based on their autism, we went to the social security office.  We were the only whites in the room who spoke English.  There were a lot of what I call Russians.  (I'm sorry, I can't tell the difference between the Russians, the Ukrainians, etc)  There were several Hispanics too and a few blacks, but the majority were the Russians who either couldn't or wouldn't speak English.  They were getting helped right away too, we were just given a time to be home to answer the phone for a phone interview.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


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The "almost whites" (Hispanics or Eastern Europeans) are counted or not counted as it affects what the reactionaries want the numbers to be.


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


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So, you don't know and you made a guess and stated it as fact.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


> How would you know?  Aren't Hispanics classified as whites?



Hispanics are only considered white when it's convenient for leftist demagogues like Jakematters to slander whites and Americans.



> I mean what about Zimmerman?



Exactly.



> Then their are the Russians who are here illegally, they're classified as whites.  In fact, I haven't seen a breakdown of TANF by race in many, many years.



Russia and Eastern Europe don't share a border with us, so the number of illegals is a tiny fraction of the 22 million Hispanic illegals in the country.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


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It's true, and you can't handle it is your problem, AgainSheila, not mine.  Even if Hispanics are counted as non-whites, many more whites than minorities are on welfare.  It has always been that way, but the whites abuse the minorities for using the services.


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


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Back in the early 80's, the last time I saw a break down, 33% on welfare were black, 36% on welfare were white and the rest were a mixture of other races.

Now, give that at the time, blacks made up 12-13% of the population and whites were the majority, you'd think there was something wrong with that figure, wouldn't you?

I don't know what the breakdown is on race and ethnicity in our country anymore.  I do know that in our city as of a couple of years ago, whites of european ancestry made up less than 30% of our cities population.  So even if every white in our city was on welfare, it still wouldn't be a majority.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


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Ignore Jakematters, he's a paid Soros hack. NOTHING he posts is true.

{The percentages those on welfare by race as of 2011 are listed below in descending order by percentage.

Black-39.8%

White-38.8%

Hispanic-15.7%

Other-3.3%

Asian-2.4%}

What is the race percentage for welfare recipients


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## MaryL (Feb 12, 2013)

Tolerance and diversity are fine.  As long as we ALL share a sense of commonality. Language, culture, history and tradition. We should all be as an  extended family.  If we accept illegal aliens as IMMIGRANTS,  that is a break from the American Family.  Illegals are ersatz.  They aren&#8217;t respecting the preexisting culture, nor are they following in the revered footsteps of  prior legal immigrants. As a few posters have mentioned :  &#8220;They are here, lady so get used to it&#8221;: That weak willed  mentality is the problem,  AND mealy mouthed acceptance of illegal aliens is why they have become such an issue. Fight the darkness. Don&#8217;t give into that mentality.


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## Flopper (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


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Poor English and skin color does not make you illegal. I know people born and raised in this country that have strong accents and are hard to understand.  It's not uncommon for a legal or illegal resident to be in a social security office.  That doesn't mean they are getting benefits for themselves.  Unfortunately, many people make that assumption.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


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That may well be true in your city.  But nationally the numbers don't lie.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

MaryL said:


> Tolerance and diversity are fine.  As long as we ALL share a sense of commonality. Language, culture, history and tradition. We should all be as an  extended family.  If we accept illegal aliens as IMMIGRANTS,  that is a break from the American Family.  Illegals are ersatz.  They arent respecting the preexisting culture, nor are they following in the revered footsteps of  prior legal immigrants. As a few posters have mentioned :  They are here, lady so get used to it: That weak willed  mentality is the problem,  AND mealy mouthed acceptance of illegal aliens is why they have become such an issue. Fight the darkness. Dont give into that mentality.



We all now understand you know nothing of immigrant history to America and the USA.


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## Spoonman (Feb 12, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


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now it would be real interesting to see what those numbers look adjusted ot percent of total population each race is.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Spoonman said:


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That is the shell game Uncensored (a DNC plant) is playing with Sheila.  The numbers are overwhelmingly 'white', even more so when counting Hispanics as 'whites'.

Uncensored is speaking out of his asshole.

Give us the numbers, not the %s, Uncensored.  You are so easy to be made to look the fool you are.


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## MaryL (Feb 12, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Undocumented immigrants are here because of 50 years of unsecured boarders, unfair immigration policies, and laws and regulation that can not be enforced.  To solve the problem we have deal with the cause of the problem not the result.  The 11 million will be absorbed, not deported because it's simply not practical to do so.



We should have open borders. It&#8217;s like the honesty policy. But you know what they say about good intentions leading to hell. People lie deceive and manipulate.  And, with the birth rate of Latin America, they have so little space and so little resources, what are they SUPPOSED to do? I am not feeling sorry for these people, whose fault is it they are overpopulated and under planned?   I just don't think irresponsible people can breed like bunnies and expect their wealthier neighbors to take up the slack regardless.  My biggest pet peeve is calling illegal aliens &#8220;undocumented IMMIGRANTS&#8221;. That is beyond being a euphemism.  It is contemptible as to be a lie. It&#8217;s appalling that given the current political environment,  it&#8217;s seen as  pejorative and racist to state the obvious. Maybe it isn't practical to fight against illegal aliens than it is against fraud, murder or all the other moral weakness humans are kin too. That still doesn&#8217;t mean we should accept it. Fight the darkness.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Uncensored can never be trusted on facts, folks, because he is a DNC plant.

The matter is this: even if Hispanics are counted as minorities, whites still outnumber minorities by many millions on welfare.

Fact.

http://theobamacrat.com/2012/01/05/welfare-recipients-which-race-gets-more-benefits/


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## MaryL (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> MaryL said:
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> > Tolerance and diversity are fine.  As long as we ALL share a sense of commonality. Language, culture, history and tradition. We should all be as an  extended family.  If we accept illegal aliens as IMMIGRANTS,  that is a break from the American Family.  Illegals are ersatz.  They arent respecting the preexisting culture, nor are they following in the revered footsteps of  prior legal immigrants. As a few posters have mentioned :  They are here, lady so get used to it: That weak willed  mentality is the problem,  AND mealy mouthed acceptance of illegal aliens is why they have become such an issue. Fight the darkness. Dont give into that mentality.
> ...



Glib,  with a touch of hyperbole. Kudos for you, you are doing your best. I get that. Not good enough. When you say "WE" all know, you are speaking for yourself. Why is it YOU feel moved to speak for anyone else here? An overreaching    sense   of egotism perhaps?  I am not attacking you personally, so peace out.  Please dont do that anymore.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

Spoonman said:


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Yes, but the long held saw of leftist hacks has been that whites took the majority of each welfare dollar. That's no longer true, part of the Obama economy. Blacks now take more of each welfare dollar than any other group, despite the fact they are the second smallest group.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored can never be trusted on facts, folks, because he is a DNC plant.
> 
> The matter is this: even if Hispanics are counted as minorities, whites still outnumber minorities by many millions on welfare.
> 
> ...



And Jakematters goes to the race hate site...

ROFL

What a fucking moron you are.


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## MikeK (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are not going to create a police state to get rid of illegals, lady.
> 
> Now get over it, please.


Employers who hire illegals are the cause of the immigration problem in addition to putting Americans out of work.  Imposing appropriate penalties on these employers is in no way relevant to a police state.  A police state is what we inevitably will end up with if we continue to allow the dregs of the third world to just walk in here and squat.  

The fact is we don't need to deport twenty million illegals.  The problem will solve itself within one year by simply requiring every legitimate U.S. citizen be issued a counterfeit-proof, numbered, citizen I.D. card and penalizing with heavy fines and/or prison for hiring anyone without an I.D. card.


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## Againsheila (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored can never be trusted on facts, folks, because he is a DNC plant.
> 
> The matter is this: even if Hispanics are counted as minorities, whites still outnumber minorities by many millions on welfare.
> 
> ...



um, I don't think anyone is arguing the number of whites on welfare is greater than the number of minorities, hence the term "minority".  But with blacks are collecting 39% of the welfare benefits but are only 13% of the population, then there is something wrong.  Whites collecting should be collecting far more than 38% if they are in the majority.

I still don't understand the Hispanic/white bit.  How many of the whites are actually whites of European decent, IE, the original majority in this nation?  I do think Hispanics make up more than 15% of the population, but now I don't know how many of them are classified as Hispanic and how many are classified as white.


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## MaryL (Feb 12, 2013)

What  are  WE are going to do to solve this issue? We have a weird twilight zone political machine that helps feed illegals down the chute to feed the wealthy white republican business owner elite upper-class, it's become a Mobius. Perhaps, we should not  indulge EITHER?   Maybe folks should just immigrate legally and nobody should exploit them ? Doesn&#8217;t that seem so American to you?


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Againsheila said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored can never be trusted on facts, folks, because he is a DNC plant.
> ...



You have your numbers and percentages in relation wrong.  Go back and do the basic math.  About 40% of blacks, about 33% of Hispanics, and about 31% of whites use benefits.  Work those figures by the population number for each group, and you can see that far more whites use welfare than minorities.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> You have your numbers and percentages in relation wrong.  Go back and do the basic math.  About 40% of blacks, about 33% of Hispanics, and about 31% of whites use benefits.  Work those figures by the population number for each group, and you can see that far more whites use welfare than minorities.



ONLY if you include Social Security as an entitlement, as the racist hate site you used as your source did. Of course you leftists swore that SS is a retirement insurance simply managed by the government. Now you want to label those who take out the annuity they payed for as "on the dole."

If only Welfare is used, then the fact is that 40 cents of every dollar spent goes to African Americans. 38 cents goes to whites.

In real dollars, the majority of welfare - this is cash aid, WIC, and Food Stamps, goes to black people.

Lie all you like, you putrid scumbag - the facts remain the facts.


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## Papawx3 (Feb 12, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



Make that a majority +1.   



> Jail time for employers that hire the illegals.



Yep.  That too.


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## MaryL (Feb 12, 2013)

Can we practically deport  11 million folks that immigrated illegally? They are new subservient underlings to whites. That appalls me personally. Illegal immigrants, most are Latinos, they can and SHOULD immigrate legally . They don&#8217;t get any excuses. But They let themselves be used and abused. That willingness sets them apart from other immigrants. I am appalled when folks compare illegal immigrants to Steinbeck&#8217;s Grapes of wrath. Not in a million years, not in a million years! Steinbeck would be rolling over in his grave at such a meager comparison.  It makes me sick, personally to hear of such a thing.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You have your numbers and percentages in relation wrong.  Go back and do the basic math.  About 40% of blacks, about 33% of Hispanics, and about 31% of whites use benefits.  Work those figures by the population number for each group, and you can see that far more whites use welfare than minorities.
> ...



You reactionary mofos have been claiming SS was an "entitlement".  Romney certainly did.

What racist website: the one you are using?  You wrote without any source that "In real dollars, the majority of welfare - this is cash aid, WIC, and Food Stamps, goes to black people."  Flatly not true, but I will give you the chance to post it.

OK, you hid.  Read below.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Total means-tested welfare expenditures by federal and state governments amounted to roughly $384 billion in 1998. Of that sum, $212 billion--55 percent--went to white recipients. Some $105 billion--28 percent--went to black recipients, and $69 billion--17 percent--went to Hispanic recipients. 

Welfare Expenditures by Ethnic Group | Heartland Institute


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Total means-tested welfare expenditures by federal and state governments amounted to roughly $384 billion in 1998. Of that sum, $212 billion--55 percent--went to white recipients. Some $105 billion--28 percent--went to black recipients, and $69 billion--17 percent--went to Hispanic recipients.
> 
> Welfare Expenditures by Ethnic Group | Heartland Institute



You just can't be honest for a second. Again you toss in dozens of programs that are not legitimate welfare and cannot be accurately tracked.

For federally funded welfare programs, TANF, Food Stamps and WIC, the figures remain:

White 38.8%
Black 39.8
Hispanic 15.7
Asian 2.4
other 3.3


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Uncensored continues his racist chanting, posting unreal figures and no sources.

The modern, evolving GOP will not let you racists and minority haters dictate anything of importance anymore in the party.

Rubio ended his candidacy for 2016 with his vote against women.

You should take very careful note that your days are over.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 12, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored continues his racist chanting, posting unreal figures and no sources.



You're a lot like a 3 year old.

When busted for using the openly racist "Theobamacrat" you start screaming "racist" at others. When pointed out that you are a paid Soros hack, which is obvious by your posts, you start screaming that I am somehow a democrat.

You are a retard, so think that you can just scream "Nun uhn - yooo"

You're a liar and a scumbag Jake - and everyone here knows it - even your fellow leftists who thank and rep you.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored continues his racist chanting, posting unreal figures and no sources.
> ...



One, I used a source you could not refute.

Two, you have used no source and strutted.

Three, you are a reactionary who has no place in the GOP.

Four, you lie and cry -- and everybody here knows it -- and not a thing you can do about it.

Cause you are on your way out over the next almost four years.


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## polarbear (Feb 12, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Undocumented immigrants are here because of 50 years of unsecured boarders, unfair immigration policies, and laws and regulation that can not be enforced.  To solve the problem we have deal with the cause of the problem not the result.  The 11 million will be absorbed, not deported because it's simply not practical to do so.



"Absorbed"..??
That`s what West Germans believed would happen with the 16+ Million DDR communists when the wall came down and could vote in the re-united Germany. Not long after that a Red Army Fraction leader who organized hi-jackings, assassinations and numerous terrorist acts (Joschka Fischer) became Germany`s Minister for foreign affairs,...then went on to found the "Green Party"...now a world wide movement and very influential with the IPCC. Angela Merkel, a top graduate of the Soviet Academy for Propaganda and Agitation became at first Environment Minister..and not much later Germany`s Chancellor....after ex- communist "Stasi" managed to alter her past records to a "conservative preacher`s daughter"...and now Germany is a show case nanny state....the kind that Obama envisions for the U.S. No need to make Your own decisions, the bureaucrats know best and do that for you, micro-managing Your daily life...like for example "co-parenting"...which means You can`t  tell your kids anything the Government did not approve.

Anyway that`s how 16 million communists "absorbed" the country that was supposed to "absorb" them.

It would not be too difficult to project how 11 million latinos might be "absorbing" the rest of the U.S. once they become "instant" citizens with voting rights...plot their birth rates against the birth rate of the present Caucasian ethnic majority...You know the one that wants a "woman`s freedom to choose"...as in abortion "rights"...and wants the taxpayer to pay for birth control and "day after" pills.
Factor in the child-less gay marriage rights and which ethnicity makes use of it...I`m sure nobody fled Mexico because he or she is gay..
Don`t forget that as citizens they can bring in their spouse or their spouse to be, for that matter almost every relative.
How many relatives have You brought in so far...or are You planning to bring in from Europe, supposing You are an "anglo"-American.
You won`t have to apply that to the entire U.S....only to the demographics of so called "swing states"...It was obvious to anyone who carefully observed the Democrat`s election campaign that the tipping point has already been reached...just as soon as voter identification was not enforced.
Last not least consider how many voters there will be left over when You subtract the ones who  let CNN & MSNBC do the thinking for them.
I`ve seen a few hispanic households, I was curious, so I volunteered to help out in a Census 3 years ago ...in Canada,.. but I imagine the ones in the U.S. are not that different...anyway in each household there was every aunt uncle and cousin of the original immigrant..."just visiting" of course...2 years after the 6 month visitor visa had expired.

You better start taking lessons en Español now, because after "4 more (Obama) years" you won`t be able to get a job after this "absorption" runs its course.
Right now You got a President who is making the same moves that Germany made after it was legally "absorbed" by 16 million communists.
He envisions a Euro- style zone with Mexico while being hostile to America`s oldest friends, like Canada.
In Merkel`s centrally planned from Brussels Europe/Germany, the crime rates are way up,...You can`t buy a gun, but You can get Rumanian horse meat served up as "hamburger" or e-choli infested veggies from Portugal ..forget about the right to self defense,...You are supposed to call the nanny state police, which will arrest You if You harmed the intruder in any way...especially so if he was a "member of a visible minority" and You are not !
It`s no secret what "commodities" flow across the US/Mexico border, a border that will then be only a demarcation line on a map.
I leave it up to You to speculate what will happen to Your right to bear arms, self defense and future crime rates.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Polarbear makes plenty of assertions, the emphasis on "ass".  What silly comments.  Give us evidence, Polarbear.  The GOP has to reach out to minorities and women or fade into the background forever.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 13, 2013)

MaryL said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Undocumented immigrants are here because of 50 years of unsecured boarders, unfair immigration policies, and laws and regulation that can not be enforced.  To solve the problem we have deal with the cause of the problem not the result.  The 11 million will be absorbed, not deported because it's simply not practical to do so.
> ...


An undocumented immigrant is anyone who does not possess a green card, a valid visa, or proof of citizenship.   A person with a student visa or travel visa that has expired is considered an undocumented immigrant although they have no intent on immigrating to this country.  A child born in the US that does not have a birth certificate is also considered an undocumented immigrant, even thou they are US citizens.  A child brought to this country as baby illegally by its parents is an undocumented immigrant. Anyone who's visa has expired and has applied for an extension is undocumented.  Lastly, anyone who has lost documents required to prove they are legally in the US, are considered undocumented.  A person who was given amnesty, but did not file the proper papers is considered undocumented.  

An undocumented immigrant is not just someone who came into the US illegally.


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## Papawx3 (Feb 13, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Polarbear makes plenty of assertions, the emphasis on "ass".  What silly comments.  Give us evidence, Polarbear. * The GOP has to reach out to minorities and women or fade into the background forever*.



Only because the GOP has abandoned the principles that got them elected to office in the first place, and in doing so, has alienated it's primary voting base.  
As a former Republican, I can honestly say_ "I didn't leave the Republican Party.   The Republican Party left me."_


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## Againsheila (Feb 13, 2013)

Flopper said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



No, but it's someone who is here illegally.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2013)

Papawx3 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Polarbear makes plenty of assertions, the emphasis on "ass".  What silly comments.  Give us evidence, Polarbear. * The GOP has to reach out to minorities and women or fade into the background forever*.
> ...



You are absolutely wrong about that.  The GOP mainstream base rejected reactionary candidates and took MR, who could have and should have campaigned much better.  The TeaP hatred and mantra chanting helped alienate swing voters.

Accept that we don't want your type in the GOP, except for your vote.  Religious and neo-con reactionaries can lower their tantrums or go elsewhere.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 13, 2013)

Againsheila said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...


According to immigration, an undocumented immigrant is anyone in the US who cannot produce  paperwork to prove they are in this country legally. This can include people born in this country without birth certificates or other documentation. It also includes those with visas that have applied for an extension but their paperwork is backlogged.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement deports about a million people each year which includes US citizens who were not able to produce sufficient paperwork before they are deported.  To make things even worse, many of these people can't get back into the US to plead their case even thou they have documentation proving they are US citizens.


----------



## MikeK (Feb 13, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Tolerance and diversity are fine.  As long as we ALL share a sense of commonality. Language, culture, history and tradition. We should all be as an  extended family.  If we accept illegal aliens as IMMIGRANTS,  that is a break from the American Family.  Illegals are ersatz.  They arent respecting the preexisting culture, nor are they following in the revered footsteps of  prior legal immigrants. As a few posters have mentioned :  They are here, lady so get used to it: That weak willed  mentality is the problem,  AND mealy mouthed acceptance of illegal aliens is why they have become such an issue. Fight the darkness. Dont give into that mentality.
> ...


Jake,

Pardon me for butting in, but what I know about immigration is my grandparents on both sides migrated here from Germany and Holland with documented invitation.  My maternal grandmother was quarantined for 13 days at Ellis Island with influenza.  Others who had such communicable conditions as tuberculosis were refused entry and sent back home.  

That system was starkly different from that of allowing anyone who is capable of sneaking in from anywhere being allowed to stay.  We already know such a breakdown in control serves to invite a crime wave, various diseases, and seriously destructive social problems.

I'm not opposed to immigration and I have nothing against Mexicans (the predominate category of illegals), the vast majority of whom are decent, hard-working people, owing to their strong religious convictions.  But the flow of migrants into this Country must be controlled -- and there is a way to do it.  The only reason it isn't being done is our corrupted Congress and President are covertly subordinate to a corporatocracy which is concerned with eliminating unions and having access to an unlimited source of low-wage workers (a de-facto slave class).  Illegal immigration accommodates that insidious purpose and is pushing this Nation toward third world status.


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## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2013)

I agree with this part: "But the flow of migrants into this Country must be controlled".  You do it this way: first, control the border so that immigration of illegals are tightened to a trickle that can be managed; second, punish businesses severely that hire knowingly illegal immigrants; third, immigration reform.

This will work if done in this order.


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## MikeK (Feb 13, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Immigration and Customs Enforcement deports about a million people each year which includes US citizens who were not able to produce sufficient paperwork before they are deported.  *To make things even worse, many of these people can't get back into the US to plead their case even thou they have documentation proving they are US citizens.*


Flopper,

I haven't heard of this being a common problem.  Why can't the U.S. consulates assist these American citizens?  Can you supply links with some details?


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## Papawx3 (Feb 13, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Papawx3 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



That's fine.  But where I go, so goes my vote.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Feb 13, 2013)

Papawx3 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Papawx3 said:
> ...



Please do.  Losing your vote is preferable to the loss of two votes who are turned off by the reactionary behavior.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 13, 2013)

MikeK said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Immigration and Customs Enforcement deports about a million people each year which includes US citizens who were not able to produce sufficient paperwork before they are deported.  *To make things even worse, many of these people can't get back into the US to plead their case even thou they have documentation proving they are US citizens.*
> ...


It's not a common problem but it does happen. Unless you can prove you're an American citizen, a consulate is not likely to help, particular if you have been deported.  

Jacqueline Stevens, Ph.D.: Deporting American Citizens: ICE's Mexican-izing of Mark Lyttle


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## Againsheila (Feb 13, 2013)

Flopper said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



From your article:

Q. Do you remember why you were ordered removed in December 2008?


A. I talked to an ICE officer and I asked her how Mexico was and to put me over there just to see how it was. She made up some kind of paperwork to make it look like I was from there.

Q. Did you ever tell the ICE officer you were from Mexico?

A. I never told her that. 

Looks like he got what he asked for....


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## MikeK (Feb 14, 2013)

Flopper said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


Okay.  Thanks for the link.

I was thinking about what I would do if, for example, I was in Mexico, or some other country, and all my ID was lost or stolen.  There must be some standing provision for such a circumstance, which I will assume occasionally happens.


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## MikeK (Feb 14, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> I agree with this part: "But the flow of migrants into this Country must be controlled".  You do it this way: first, control the border so that immigration of illegals are tightened to a trickle that can be managed; second, punish businesses severely that hire knowingly illegal immigrants; third, immigration reform.
> 
> This will work if done in this order.


But what about the eleven million already here?

And don't you think the problem would virtually solve itself if jobs were not available to anyone without proper documentation?  I believe the solution to the problem is a foolproof citizen ID card, which the present nature of American society calls for.  And when an example is made of a few employers of illegals the present situation would immediately reverse.


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## Flopper (Feb 14, 2013)

MikeK said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


If you don't have any id at all, you have a problem.  However, if you look and sound like you are from the US and have family the consulate can contact, you can work things out eventually.  But imagine that you don't have any family or friends that the consulate can contact, then you have a really big problem.  There are some organizations such as travelers aid international that can help.

Detainees due have a right to due process, but in reality they can be locked for a long time while they attempt to prove they belong in the US.  Of course if the detainee is being investigated by home land security, due process goes out the window.


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## Article 15 (Feb 14, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are not going to create a police state to get rid of illegals, lady.
> 
> Now get over it, please.



^that


----------



## Flopper (Feb 14, 2013)

MikeK said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with this part: "But the flow of migrants into this Country must be controlled".  You do it this way: first, control the border so that immigration of illegals are tightened to a trickle that can be managed; second, punish businesses severely that hire knowingly illegal immigrants; third, immigration reform.
> ...


If we can control the boarders so as stop the flow into the country, then I think we should give them some kind of legal residency.  Would that really be a bad solution?  About 90% have jobs.  They all pay sales tax. Most of them pay income tax through payroll withholding but rarely file returns and thus don't get refunds.  They pay social security tax but are not eligible for benefits and they do jobs that few Americans want.


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## Againsheila (Feb 14, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



Baloney


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## Againsheila (Feb 14, 2013)

Flopper said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



Yeah, Mark Little said "put me in Mexico" so they did.  What a shame.  Maybe he should have been careful what he asked for.  Having been put in Mexico, it's not that hard to get back.  Go to the nearest American Consulate, they can fax your paperwork and give you a visa so you can go home.  Man they really had to stretch for that one.


----------



## Againsheila (Feb 14, 2013)

MikeK said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



You have your ID faxed to you.  You go to the American Consulate and get a new passport.  BTW, in Japan, when you are staying at a hotel, they take your passport.  Now way you can lose it that way.  They give it back when you leave.

What would you do if you were in Hawaii and lost your id?  How do you board the plane?


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## waltky (Feb 14, 2013)

We don't need to deport all 11 million of `em...

... only the ones who are up here establishing the forward bases...

... for the drug cartels...

... the rest are up here to seek a better life...

... for themselves and their families...

... i.e. the ones who are willing to make a positive contribution...

... to the American way of life.


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## beagle9 (Feb 14, 2013)

LilOlLady said:


> *WE CANNOT DEPORT 11 MILLION PEOPLE
> WE HAVE TO PUT THEM ON A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP*
> 
> Left wing BS. We can do anything we want to do. We dont have to do anything we dont want to do. How do we deport 11 million people in the country illegally? Simple. E-Verify. If they cannot work they will self deport. Like a million have done already with their children. Whom we refuse to deport because they are innocent little children who were brought here by no fault of their own and this is the only country they have ever know? More left wing B.S. They are citizens of Mexico. They know the language because they parents do not bother to learn English. They know the culture, how to eat tacos and burritos and celebrate Cinco De Mayo each year. We also can repeal Automatic Birth Citizenship for children of illegal aliens retroactive that is exacerbating the illegal immigration problem. Have a anchor baby is like hitting the lottery. It qualifies a family for welfare money, food stamps, medicaid and public housing and anchor an illegal family to the country. Most are low income earner who pay no income taxes (how can we collect back taxes from people who pay no taxes?) but receive earned tax credits and child credits refunds. Businesses are addicted to cheap labor and Comp. Immig. Reform. will not change that.
> ...


The government in coercion with the illegals have allowed all this because of the wealthy constituency it has, in which is found on one side of the coin lusting after cheap labor that has no rights while working, or any say so against all sorts of abuses for fear of being replaced with another quickly, and then there is the governments lust for cheap votes as found in potential voters on the other side if this coin also. This has become a no win situation for the American hard working lower to middle class citizens who are out there, because they are ultimately carrying the whole load for all of this mess, while they all as American citizens are totally hammered in the long run by this stuff. No one likes cutting off their own hand to spite their own face, but this is what the American citizen has been asked to do within the midst of all of this stuff or they are expected to do in the midst of it all, just as we have seen so many times now or in the past. Don't get me wrong now, this is no slam against the Mexican people, because they are seemingly some great workers and people, but this is a slam against what our politicians have done in the past for votes and for perks found within it all.


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## Flopper (Feb 14, 2013)

Againsheila said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


US citizens that get deported are usually people that do not have families to help them  gather and fax documents.  If they did, they wouldn't have been deported.

If you go to a US consulate or embassy, they will ask you for identification.  If you do not have identification, they will tell you to obtain identification.  If you don't have someone to call to get that identification, you are going to have a hard time.  If you don't appear to be from the US or don't have the funds to hire someone to help you, you're screwed.


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## Againsheila (Feb 14, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



Actually, they will help you obtain id.

Now, if you are in Hawaii and have lost your id, what do you do?  You think you are going to be stuck there?  

I never said it was easy, I said it could be done.  The person in that article that was deported to Mexico ASKED to be deported to Mexico.  Maybe he shouldn't have done that?


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 15, 2013)

Papawx3 said:


> That's fine.  But where I go, so goes my vote.



Jakematters is paid by George Soros to post his Thinkprogress bullshit. Pay no attention to him. He has nothing to do with the GOP.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 15, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> Please do.  Losing your vote is preferable to the loss of two votes who are turned off by the reactionary behavior.



Does that count as a documented case of you driving a Republican vote away? Does it earn you your bonus from Thinkprogress?


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## MaryL (Feb 15, 2013)

People need valid links but ya won&#8217;t accept anecdotalism? But somehow in this same moral  tolerant  universe, illegal immigrants don't have to PROVE anything because if we ask them , it violates some  moral constant? Please. Illegal aliens ARE breaking laws I know immigrants  that chose to come  here  legally seem to follow , as they follow  ALL other American laws  without feeling special. They waited, they may  have had to pay thousands in legal fees  to have to have gotten  in, and  yet they seem to have survived just fine. But why is it somehow all these all these illegals make it sound  like they are triumphing against evil or something when they sneak in like a thief in the night? I can't relate to illegal aliens . That isn't what immigration is about.


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## jasonnfree (Feb 15, 2013)

MikeK said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



I've got the same opinion about Obama.  He's a corporate almost a republican, anti union and working class.   Is this what the country needs when it has a surplus of labor?  Legitimize more people so they can lower wages even more?


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## Deepbluediver (Feb 15, 2013)

I've got 2 proposals for imigration reform, a simple one and a complex one.


We'll start with the first, longer one.  This is a 3-step process.

1) Secure the borders. (short term)
The federal government should have the right and the control to say who enter the country or not.  If you think there should be more immigrants, then loosen the restrictions on immigration, but just saying you are not going to enforce existing laws is BS.  I mean, if you get to pick and choose, whats the point of having a federal government?

2) Deal the current group of illegal immigrants (medium term)
I really REALLY don't like deporting people who where born here, and had no control over what their parents did.  Sending these people hundreds or thousands of miles away from the only home they have every known leaves a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach
For older people who entered the country illegally, I don't think they should be rewarded with citizenship.  But so long as they are law-abiding and self supporting, I can't really see a reason to deport them.  Maybe we can compromise and offer a permenant green-card status.

3) Help improve the situation in other countries to make people want to stay more (long term)
This is probably the most complicated part of the plan, particularly when foreign aid is a tricky subject and our domestic situation is less than stellar.  Still, I feel we can do more with our closest neighbors, particularly in Central and South America to ensure that our policies are cooperative instead of combative.  The middle east gets all the big news stories, but maybe it's time to refocus on things a little closer to home.



Oh, almost forgot the alternative short version:
Annex Canada and offer full citizenship to anyone who works there for 5 years.


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## Flopper (Feb 16, 2013)

Deepbluediver said:


> I've got 2 proposals for imigration reform, a simple one and a complex one.
> 
> 
> We'll start with the first, longer one.  This is a 3-step process.
> ...


In general, I agree with your proposals.  However, I don't think anyone is suggesting undocumented immigrants should be offered citizenship.  Some form of legal residency makes sense.

I would also add sensible immigration quotas. The quota system was setup in 1920's and has not been changed in nearly 50 years although the world has changed a lot.  In some countries, a person applying for immigration could wait a life time. 

The problem with Americas immigration system isn't that too many people are breaking the rules. Its that the rules themselves are irrational, confusing,  bigoted, and counterproductive.


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## Uncensored2008 (Feb 21, 2013)

johnbrown said:


> Those illegal aliens can and should be deported and the numbers are probably 2 or 3x what the gubmit releases. While we are at it send the politicians with them



Let's get old Open Borders McCain packing up today!


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