# Will Harper ever visit Turkey?



## Ropey

> The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harper&#8217;s time as official Opposition leader.
> 
> During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian community&#8217;s claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.
> 
> Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.
> 
> But, according to Turkey, Canada&#8217;s Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.
> 
> Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.
> 
> In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.
> 
> Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
> 
> But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.
> 
> Mr. Harper&#8217;s &#8220;wrong and unfair&#8221; judgment was based on &#8220;one-sided information&#8221; that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.
> 
> The government&#8217;s position was also &#8220;based on narrow political calculations&#8221; and &#8220;dealt a blow to these efforts,&#8221; the statement declared.
> 
> Rafet Akgunay, Turkey&#8217;s ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.
> 
> &#8220;I don&#8217;t want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey I&#8217;m sure my authorities would consider it accordingly,&#8221; Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.
> 
> But he described Mr. Harper&#8217;s genocide position as a &#8220;major obstacle&#8221; standing in the way of improved relations.



Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.

Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.

Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.

Like they did to the Armenians.


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## Baruch Menachem

They weren't very nice to the Bulgarians either.

It might be worth noting that the Government of Turkey is quite a different animal than it was back then.  Blaming the nation Turkey as the same as the Ottoman government is a bit of blood libel


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## Sunni Man

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?

The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.

What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?


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## Ropey

Baruch Menachem said:


> They weren't very nice to the Bulgarians either.
> 
> It might be worth noting that the Government of Turkey is quite a different animal than it was back then.  Blaming the nation Turkey as the same as the Ottoman government is a bit of blood libel



This is not about blame. It is about human expiation of wrongs and genocide is considered one of the greatest crimes against man. Armenia demands recognition for what was done to them as a people.

Turkey pretends that they didn't slaughter the entire Armenian population of Anatolian Turkey.

They are all gone. Turkey thinks they walked away?


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## Jroc

Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.


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## Ropey

Jroc said:


> Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.



Did you read more than the first few lines of the OP?


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## RetiredGySgt

Ropey said:


> The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harpers time as official Opposition leader.
> 
> During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian communitys claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.
> 
> Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.
> 
> But, according to Turkey, Canadas Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.
> 
> Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.
> 
> In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.
> 
> Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
> 
> But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.
> 
> Mr. Harpers wrong and unfair judgment was based on one-sided information that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.
> 
> The governments position was also based on narrow political calculations and dealt a blow to these efforts, the statement declared.
> 
> Rafet Akgunay, Turkeys ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.
> 
> I dont want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey Im sure my authorities would consider it accordingly, Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.
> 
> But he described Mr. Harpers genocide position as a major obstacle standing in the way of improved relations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.
> 
> Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.
> 
> Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.
> 
> Like they did to the Armenians.
Click to expand...


Turkey did NOT exist in 1915. How can a Country be responsible for actions taken BEFORE they ever existed?


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## Ropey

Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.

Of course it didn't exist. The Armenians of the land now called Anatolian Turkey and the land that was called Armenia is now tiny because the land now called Turkey is full of Turks and no Armenians.

Go figure?


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## Jroc

Ropey said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read more than the first few lines of the OP?
Click to expand...


I guess I was answering the question of what Harper should do, not what he will do, what's the problem?


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## Jos

Ropey said:


> Turkey was created by genocide of the Armenians and theft of their country.
> 
> Of course it didn't exist. The Armenians of the land now called Anatolian Turkey and the land that was called Armenia is now tiny because the land now called Turkey is full of Turks and no Armenians.
> 
> Go figure?



Lead by the young Turks, IE the Jewish movement


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## PoliticalChic

Sunni Man said:


> I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?
> 
> The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.
> 
> What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?



Better relations with Turkey, which would allow Turkey to possibly join with Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan is peopled by Turkic folk, and has suffered a loss in war with Armenia...
Azerbaijian would love to get out of Russia's sphere...

Azerbaijan has significant energy supplies and would be a springboard for Turkish influence in Central Asia.

If you look at a map, you will see Armenia between Turkey and Azerbaijian.


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## Ropey

Jroc said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read more than the first few lines of the OP?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess I was answering the question of what Harper should do, not what he will do, what's the problem?
Click to expand...


No problem Jroc. Just that what you said he should do is pretty much what he is doing.


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## ekrem

Sunni Man said:


> I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?
> 
> The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.
> 
> What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?



Neither Mr. Harper nor Canada play a role in considerations of political Ankara when it comes to daily political business. 
Same with Turkish people's daily life. 
Turkey is doing glorious without Harper and Canada.

There is no shortage in partners who want to cooperate and enhance relations for the benefit of the involved parties. It's not us who looses weight in the changing world.


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## ekrem

RetiredGySgt said:


> Turkey did NOT exist in 1915. How can a Country be responsible for actions taken BEFORE they ever existed?



According to Prof. Justin McCarthy about *5.5 Million Ottoman Muslims* where ethnically cleansed out of conflict during 1821-1922. 
LINK: Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 :: Reviewed by Daniel Pipes

Yet, you do not hear any Turks whining about this. 

The Armenians revolted against the Ottomans, supported by the outside power Russia. Both Orthodox. Same has happened in the Ottoman provinces of the Balkans before World-War1 (e.g. Greeks, Bulgarians).


The Russians supported the Armenians to prepare the Caucasus-Front of WW1:
Battle of Sarikamish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Armenians terrorized the Ottomans in the Caucasus (Eastern Anatolia) to further the goals of the approaching Russian Army. The Ottomans implemented anti-terrorism measures, which was relocation of the revolting Armenians into Syrian desert. Away from the conflict-zone with Russia.  All whilst Turks were fighting from Gallipoli to Yemen.


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## tinydancer

If I could wish one thing, it would be for countries and peoples to admit the horrific deeds of the past and then ALL of us could move on.

Sadly I don't believe this is going to happen. I have Romeo D'Aillaire up here freaking mouthing off to the Harper government all the time.

Romeo, freaking Romeo who listened to Kofi to stand down and allow the Rwandan genocide to happen.

I mean holy shit. I want to choke the crap out of the dude everytime he speaks. He actually listened to Kofi (who ended getting promoted to the head of the UN for this genocidal moment) because Kofi told him to stand down.


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## Sallow

I've been to Turkey.

Nice place. Lovely people.

Istanbul is a beautiful city.


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## tinydancer

ekrem said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?
> 
> The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.
> 
> What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Mr. Harper nor Canada play a role in considerations of political Ankara when it comes to daily political business.
> Same with Turkish people's daily life.
> Turkey is doing glorious without Harper and Canada.
> 
> There is no shortage in partners who want to cooperate and enhance relations for the benefit of the involved parties. It's not us who looses weight in the changing world.
Click to expand...


Turkey is constantly being feted on Jeanne Becker's fashion TV. Just amazing runway shows. Turkey is an important trading partner. And in more than fashion.

What are you talking about? Turkey has been an associate with Canada in many efforts. Harper just wants Turkish officials to admit the Armenian genocide.

This is no big smurf here. It's diplomatic dipshits at their finest going "oh what Armenians?"

Admit and move on.

Oh and by the way, want to provide the link that proves we don't trade with Turkey?

One thing I really hate is to prove someone is a complete liar or idiot on line.

Wait for my next post. Sorry, but you asked for this.


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## tinydancer

Sallow said:


> I've been to Turkey.
> 
> Nice place. Lovely people.
> 
> Istanbul is a beautiful city.



Is it as wonderous as I've been told? I've heard that you can literally smell coffee upon coffee smells. It's like a layer of aroma that embraces the city in the morning.

I know Istanbul from Fashion TV....yes I'm a camo girl but it doesn't mean I still don't love my old days of Vogue and Mary Quant.


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## tinydancer

Now lets deal with the absolute lie that Canada does not trade with Turkey. I get so sick and tired of morons who post lies and absolute lies without getting smacked upside the head.

Knuckle sandwich coming you moron who posted that Canada does not trade with Turkey.

*



			Canada-Turkey Relations
Fact Sheet | PDF * (135 KB)
Political Relations
Canada and Turkey have longstanding diplomatic relations. In 1947, Canada appointed its first resident Ambassador to Turkey, while  Turkey opened a resident Embassy in Ottawa in 1944. In recent years as friends and allies, Canada and Turkey have expanded the depth and variety of their bilateral links as valued political, commercial, strategic, and security partners. In 2009, these links were further strengthened by a number of new initiatives, including the inauguration of direct flights between Toronto and Istanbul and the signing of an agreement to avoid double taxation. 

Multilateral cooperation has grown through links in NATO, the United Nations and its agencies, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, and the Council of Europe. Through these shared ties, Canada and Turkey are working together toward our common goal of promoting peace and stability throughout Europe and Central Asia.

Military Cooperation
Turkey and Canada's Armed Forces have enjoyed a longstanding cooperation. They are both committed to defending democratic values and global security within the frame work of international cooperation and security. Both military forces are excellent partners in the multilateral sphere and work together well within the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO). This has again been recently demonstrated through close Canadian and Turkish cooperation as major contributors to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan. 

Trade
Canada has a relatively strong commercial relationship with Turkey  the world's 17th largest economy, a G-20 member, and the third most populous nation in Europe (71.9 million) after Germany and Russia. Given its strategic geographic location and negotiated trade agreements, Turkey offers excellent access to markets in Europe (including preferential Customs Union access to the European Union), the Caucasus, Central Asia, and the Middle East.

Canada-Turkey bilateral merchandise trade has almost doubled in the last five years, reaching $1.9 billion in 2008. Canadian exports to Turkey reached $1.2 billion in 2008, with a product mix ranging from commodities to advanced technology goods. These included approximately $330 million worth of agricultural goods. Turkey is Canada's 22nd largest merchandise export market and the 45th largest source of merchandise imports. 

Investment
In recent years, Turkey has been one of the top global destinations for Foreign Direct Investment (FDI). Many Canadian companies have recognized the great investment potential Turkey offers. Canadian investments in Turkey stood at about $1.1 billion in 2009 and Export Development Canada has identified the country as a strategic market of opportunity for Canadian firms.

Niche opportunities exist for Canadian investors, particularly in the energy, information and communication technologies, mining, environment, and agriculture/agri-food sectors. Commercial opportunities in Turkey match Canadian supply capabilities.

Last updated: November 2009
		
Click to expand...

*
I hate liars.


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## Ropey

tinydancer said:


> harper just wants turkish officials to admit the armenian genocide.
> 
> This is no big smurf here. It's diplomatic dipshits at their finest going "oh what armenians?"
> 
> admit and move on.



+2



tinydancer said:


> Now lets deal with the absolute lie that Canada does not trade with Turkey.



Who is saying that Canada does not trade with Turkey?



			
				OP said:
			
		

> Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
> 
> But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> Baruch Menachem said:
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't very nice to the Bulgarians either.
> 
> It might be worth noting that the Government of Turkey is quite a different animal than it was back then.  Blaming the nation Turkey as the same as the Ottoman government is a bit of blood libel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not about blame. It is about human expiation of wrongs and genocide is considered one of the greatest crimes against man. Armenia demands recognition for what was done to them as a people.
> 
> Turkey pretends that they didn't slaughter the entire Armenian population of Anatolian Turkey.
> 
> They are all gone. Turkey thinks they walked away?
Click to expand...



Please direct me to the official U.S. apology for the genocide perpetrated against Native Americans.

Thanks.


----------



## Synthaholic

RetiredGySgt said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harpers time as official Opposition leader.
> 
> During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian communitys claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.
> 
> Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.
> 
> But, according to Turkey, Canadas Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.
> 
> Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.
> 
> In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.
> 
> Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
> 
> But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.
> 
> Mr. Harpers wrong and unfair judgment was based on one-sided information that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.
> 
> The governments position was also based on narrow political calculations and dealt a blow to these efforts, the statement declared.
> 
> Rafet Akgunay, Turkeys ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.
> 
> I dont want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey Im sure my authorities would consider it accordingly, Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.
> 
> But he described Mr. Harpers genocide position as a major obstacle standing in the way of improved relations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.
> 
> Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.
> 
> Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.
> 
> Like they did to the Armenians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkey did NOT exist in 1915. How can a Country be responsible for actions taken BEFORE they ever existed?
Click to expand...

Thank you!  I've tried to explain this to him previously, but he has Turk-hatred due to their flotilla to bring goods to Palestinians.


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## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.
> 
> Of course it didn't exist. The Armenians of the land now called Anatolian Turkey and the land that was called Armenia is now tiny because the land now called Turkey is full of Turks and no Armenians.
> 
> Go figure?


That is so totally false it borders on deliberate lie.


----------



## Synthaholic

Sallow said:


> I've been to Turkey.
> 
> Nice place. Lovely people.
> 
> Istanbul is a beautiful city.


I could not agree more.  Of the 27 countries and territories I've visited, Turkey is my favorite.  That said, Ankara is hell on your lungs!


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## Ropey

And all the Burkas were not there in the 70's and 80's but you see them all over now. More to come.

With Burka comes...


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## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> And all the Burkas were not there in the 70's and 80's but you see them all over now. More to come.
> 
> With Burka comes...



Yup, even in Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan you did not see burkas in the 70s but now they are everywhere in those countries.


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## Synthaholic

Synthaholic said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Baruch Menachem said:
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't very nice to the Bulgarians either.
> 
> It might be worth noting that the Government of Turkey is quite a different animal than it was back then.  Blaming the nation Turkey as the same as the Ottoman government is a bit of blood libel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not about blame. It is about human expiation of wrongs and genocide is considered one of the greatest crimes against man. Armenia demands recognition for what was done to them as a people.
> 
> Turkey pretends that they didn't slaughter the entire Armenian population of Anatolian Turkey.
> 
> They are all gone. Turkey thinks they walked away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Please direct me to the official U.S. apology for the genocide perpetrated against Native Americans.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

Did you find it yet, Ropey?


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.
> 
> Of course it didn't exist. The Armenians of the land now called Anatolian Turkey and the land that was called Armenia is now tiny because the land now called Turkey is full of Turks and no Armenians.
> 
> Go figure?
> 
> 
> 
> That is so totally false it borders on deliberate lie.
Click to expand...





​A picture says ...
*
And a neg for calling my call for Turkey to stand to their genocide hate Synth. *


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:


> Did you find it yet, Ropey?



This thread is about Canada's view regarding Turkey and the genocide they perpetrated on the Armenians. 

Not you whining about other events.  I'm Canadian. At any rate, this is not about your sniveling that the Armenian genocide was fine


----------



## Sallow

tinydancer said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Turkey.
> 
> Nice place. Lovely people.
> 
> Istanbul is a beautiful city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it as wonderous as I've been told? I've heard that you can literally smell coffee upon coffee smells. It's like a layer of aroma that embraces the city in the morning.
> 
> I know Istanbul from Fashion TV....yes I'm a camo girl but it doesn't mean I still don't love my old days of Vogue and Mary Quant.
Click to expand...


The cistern is absolutely amazing.

Basilica Cistern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The night life is great. They have modern bars on roof tops that are very fun. Istanbul comes alive around 9ish and is hopping until 1am or so. The Turks are very friendly and the sidewalk cafes are as chic as any in Europe.

Very beautiful place.


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Turkey.
> 
> Nice place. Lovely people.
> 
> Istanbul is a beautiful city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it as wonderous as I've been told? I've heard that you can literally smell coffee upon coffee smells. It's like a layer of aroma that embraces the city in the morning.
> 
> I know Istanbul from Fashion TV....yes I'm a camo girl but it doesn't mean I still don't love my old days of Vogue and Mary Quant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The cistern is absolutely amazing.
> 
> Basilica Cistern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The night life is great. They have modern bars on roof tops that are very fun. Istanbul comes alive around 9ish and is hopping until 1am or so. The Turks are very friendly and the sidewalk cafes are as chic as any in Europe.
> 
> Very beautiful place.
Click to expand...


And when they deal with their past genocide of the Armenians AND stop trying to genocide their Kurds AND deal with their minority issues in an un-Islamic way (killing them) AND THEN possibly Harper will stop the demands for them to stand like men and not crawl like others here who wish to turn a blind eye. 

Harper does not wish to turn that blind eye.

Turkey




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhZ6DPDd-vg&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - &#x202a;The Quran on My Mind - Part 1/3&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvS7q_hc6SU&feature=related]YouTube - &#x202a;The Quran on My Mind - Part 2/3&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xygxEMwGcyQ&feature=related]YouTube - &#x202a;The Quran on My Mind - Part 3/3&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]



> Oh dear, oh dear - what is Turkey up too?
> Does Turkey see their people's slavish devotion to Islam &#8211; as a problem? Or maybe they have concluded that - he who controls Islam - controls the people...





> There has been a growing discussion and increasing controversy here in America surrounding Muslim women and their wearing of veils and burkas. Late in 2007, a Muslim man allegedly murdered his 16-year-old daughter in Toronto, Canada because she refused to be veiled. Another such &#8220;honor killing&#8221; took place in Texas, where a man is said to have murdered his two daughters because they did not behave like submissive females under Shar&#8217;ia laws. A Muslim, he drove to the airport in his taxi and flew off, presumably to his original homeland of Egypt, leaving their gunshot-riddled bodies in his taxi. These are but two tales of Islamist cruelty and murder of women here in our own homeland.



Islamization Watch: 2/24/08 - 3/2/08


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## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.
> 
> Of course it didn't exist. The Armenians of the land now called Anatolian Turkey and the land that was called Armenia is now tiny because the land now called Turkey is full of Turks and no Armenians.
> 
> Go figure?
> 
> 
> 
> That is so totally false it borders on deliberate lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​A picture says ...
> *
> And a neg for calling my call for Turkey to stand to their genocide hate Synth. *
Click to expand...


This post doesn't explain how:



Ropey said:


> Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.



​Because it wasn't.  It was a lie.

And I called you a Turk-hater because of their flotilla to Palestine.  So that's another lie from you.

Got more?  I'll call you out on those, also.


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## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Turkey.
> 
> Nice place. Lovely people.
> 
> Istanbul is a beautiful city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it as wonderous as I've been told? I've heard that you can literally smell coffee upon coffee smells. It's like a layer of aroma that embraces the city in the morning.
> 
> I know Istanbul from Fashion TV....yes I'm a camo girl but it doesn't mean I still don't love my old days of Vogue and Mary Quant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The cistern is absolutely amazing.
> 
> Basilica Cistern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The night life is great. They have modern bars on roof tops that are very fun. Istanbul comes alive around 9ish and is hopping until 1am or so. The Turks are very friendly and the sidewalk cafes are as chic as any in Europe.
> 
> Very beautiful place.
Click to expand...


The scarey thing is Sallow, all the things you said about Turkey is what people used to say about Iran before the 1979 Revolution.


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is so totally false it borders on deliberate lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​A picture says ...
> *
> And a neg for calling my call for Turkey to stand to their genocide hate Synth. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This post doesn't explain how:
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ​Because it wasn't.  It was a lie.
> 
> And I called you a Turk-hater because of their flotilla to Palestine.  So that's another lie from you.
> 
> Got more?  I'll call you out on those, also.
Click to expand...


*Because it wasn't? * That's how you call out? Moron.

No, you're just a sniveler Synth.  Not a lie. Before 1900 Turkey was tiny and Armenia wa a large country. 

What happened then.  The Armenians just disappeared? Turkey just gained all that land by luck?

Moron.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you find it yet, Ropey?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about Canada's view regarding Turkey and the genocide they perpetrated on the Armenians.
> 
> *Not you whining about other events.*  I'm Canadian. At any rate, this is not about your sniveling that the Armenian genocide was fine
Click to expand...



You said:



Ropey said:


> This is not about blame. *It is about human  expiation of wrongs and genocide is considered one of the greatest  crimes against man. Armenia demands recognition for what was done to  them as a people.*
> 
> Turkey pretends that they didn't slaughter the entire Armenian population of Anatolian Turkey.
> 
> They are all gone. Turkey thinks they walked away?



Native Americans also demand recognition for what was done to them as a people.

Do you think they all walked away?

You're only on this jihad against Turkey because of the flotilla - just man up and admit it.


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:
			
		

> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, you have received -121 reputation points from Ropey.
> Reputation was given for *this* post.
> 
> Comment:
> Turk hatred for wanting them to stand to their genocide?  Neg for you.
> 
> Regards,
> Ropey
> 
> Note: This is an automated message.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Learn to read - I said Turk-hatred because of the flotilla, didn't I?
Click to expand...


Learn to be understanding. Hate on one event concerning Turks and not on other events?  Moron.

I demand they stand.

You demand they crawl and you crawl at the same time.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​A picture says ...
> *
> And a neg for calling my call for Turkey to stand to their genocide hate Synth. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This post doesn't explain how:
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ​Because it wasn't.  It was a lie.
> 
> And I called you a Turk-hater because of their flotilla to Palestine.  So that's another lie from you.
> 
> Got more?  I'll call you out on those, also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Because it wasn't? * That's how you call out? Moron.
> 
> No, you're just a sniveler Synth.  Not a lie. *Before 1900 Turkey was tiny and Armenia wa a large country.
> *
> What happened then.  The Armenians just disappeared? Turkey just gained all that land by luck?
> 
> Moron.
Click to expand...



Before 1900 there was no Turkey!  But there was a huge Ottoman Empire with the caliphate seated in Istanbul.

Damn you're stupid.


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you find it yet, Ropey?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about Canada's view regarding Turkey and the genocide they perpetrated on the Armenians.
> 
> *Not you whining about other events.*  I'm Canadian. At any rate, this is not about your sniveling that the Armenian genocide was fine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not about blame. *It is about human  expiation of wrongs and genocide is considered one of the greatest  crimes against man. Armenia demands recognition for what was done to  them as a people.*
> 
> Turkey pretends that they didn't slaughter the entire Armenian population of Anatolian Turkey.
> 
> They are all gone. Turkey thinks they walked away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Native Americans also demand recognition for what was done to them as a people.
> 
> Do you think they all walked away?
> 
> You're only on this jihad against Turkey because of the flotilla - just man up and admit it.
Click to expand...


You continually try to turn this to other events.  

This thread is about CANADA and THE CANADIAN DEMAND FOR TURKEY TO ADDRESS ITS GENOCIDE.

*READ AND KNOW!*



> In Turkey, the secularism established by Kemal Attaturk when he dragged the Turks kicking and screaming into the 20th Century outlawed the burka and veil, and the fez.
> 
> *Now, the increasingly Islamist and regressive Turkish government is disbanding Attaturk&#8217;s laws and &#8220;allowing&#8221; women to wear the veil. We can only wonder how long it will be before women are forced to wear it.*



Islamization Watch: 2/24/08 - 3/2/08

I (and Canada) say watch Turkey and demand they address their genocide.


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> And when they deal with their past genocide of the Armenians AND stop trying to genocide their Kurds AND deal with their minority issues in an un-Islamic way (killing them) AND THEN possibly Harper will stop the demands for them to stand like men and not crawl like others here who wish to turn a blind eye.
> 
> Harper does not wish to turn that blind eye.



Hmm..

So all countries that deal with minorities the same way should apologize? Or be responsible for all acts taken by their country even prior to their modern governments? Or should they return the land to people that were previously living on it?

Or are those conditions laid out just for Turkey and not anyone else?


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:


> Before 1900 there was no Turkey!  But there was a huge Ottoman Empire with the caliphate seated in Istanbul.
> 
> Damn you're stupid.






Map of Turkey in the 1800's

So, they called the Empire the Turkish-Ottoman Empire. Turkey has been around for many thousands of years.


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And when they deal with their past genocide of the Armenians AND stop trying to genocide their Kurds AND deal with their minority issues in an un-Islamic way (killing them) AND THEN possibly Harper will stop the demands for them to stand like men and not crawl like others here who wish to turn a blind eye.
> 
> Harper does not wish to turn that blind eye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm..
> 
> So all countries that deal with minorities the same way should apologize? Or be responsible for all acts taken by their country even prior to their modern governments? Or should they return the land to people that were previously living on it?
> 
> Or are those conditions laid out just for Turkey and not anyone else?
Click to expand...


It's what this thread is about. 

Create threads for the countries you wish to have address their past.  Or create a thread about all genocides perpetrated in history or the modern era if you wish.

This is not that thread.


----------



## High_Gravity

Turkey and the Ottoman Empire are the same, Turkey takes credit for all their accomplishments in the history books but none of the shame.


----------



## Ropey

Ropey said:


> The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harpers time as official Opposition leader.
> 
> During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian communitys claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.
> 
> Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.
> 
> But, according to Turkey, Canadas Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.
> 
> Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.
> 
> In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.
> 
> Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
> 
> But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.
> 
> Mr. Harpers wrong and unfair judgment was based on one-sided information that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.
> 
> The governments position was also based on narrow political calculations and dealt a blow to these efforts, the statement declared.
> 
> Rafet Akgunay, Turkeys ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.
> 
> I dont want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey Im sure my authorities would consider it accordingly, Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.
> 
> But he described Mr. Harpers genocide position as a major obstacle standing in the way of improved relations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.
> 
> Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.
> 
> Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.
> 
> Like they did to the Armenians.
Click to expand...


OP repeated for clarity.


----------



## Moonglow

Ropey said:


> The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harpers time as official Opposition leader.
> 
> During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian communitys claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.
> 
> Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.
> 
> But, according to Turkey, Canadas Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.
> 
> Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.
> 
> In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.
> 
> Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
> 
> But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.
> 
> Mr. Harpers wrong and unfair judgment was based on one-sided information that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.
> 
> The governments position was also based on narrow political calculations and dealt a blow to these efforts, the statement declared.
> 
> Rafet Akgunay, Turkeys ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.
> 
> I dont want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey Im sure my authorities would consider it accordingly, Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.
> 
> But he described Mr. Harpers genocide position as a major obstacle standing in the way of improved relations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.
> 
> Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.
> 
> Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.
> 
> Like they did to the Armenians.
Click to expand...


And America did to the natives


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And when they deal with their past genocide of the Armenians AND stop trying to genocide their Kurds AND deal with their minority issues in an un-Islamic way (killing them) AND THEN possibly Harper will stop the demands for them to stand like men and not crawl like others here who wish to turn a blind eye.
> 
> Harper does not wish to turn that blind eye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm..
> 
> So all countries that deal with minorities the same way should apologize? Or be responsible for all acts taken by their country even prior to their modern governments? Or should they return the land to people that were previously living on it?
> 
> Or are those conditions laid out just for Turkey and not anyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's what this thread is about.
> 
> Create threads for the countries you wish to have address their past.  Or create a thread about all genocides perpetrated in history or the modern era if you wish.
> 
> This is not that thread.
Click to expand...


I've noticed a couple of things of late. When Turkey expressed their opposition to the Iraqi invasion (for obvious reasons) the right went batshit crazy on them. Israel hates all of it's neighbors..so it's understandable why people who think Israel can do no wrong would be on the same page as that.

In any case it's a little more then hypocritical for an Israeli to talk about Turkey's past transgressions given their past. And it's off the scale for an American or Canadian to do that.


----------



## High_Gravity

Why does everyone keep bringing up the Native Americans in this thread? Ropey isn't even American plus the Native Americans nowadays get all kinds of benefits from the government and the ones running the casinoes are making a mint, not saying it makes what happened to them right but I don't see Turkey giving any benefits to the Armenians or Kurds, in fact they are still trying to kill the Kurds now.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Before 1900 there was no Turkey!  But there was a huge Ottoman Empire with the caliphate seated in Istanbul.
> 
> Damn you're stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Map of Turkey in the 1800's
> 
> So, they called the Empire the Turkish-Ottoman Empire. Turkey has been around for many thousands of years.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> In any case it's a little more then hypocritical for an Israeli to talk about Turkey's past transgressions given their past. And it's off the scale for an American or Canadian to do that.



Look at that picture Sallow.

I've seen many more. Don't tell me that I don't have the right to point out the Armenian genocide. Well, if you do, then you are really lost.




You just want it to go away maybe?

It's not about me you.



> Turkey condemns Canada's genocide vote



CTV British Columbia - Turkey condemns Canada's genocide vote - CTV News.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCH_T2eXB38]YouTube - &#x202a;US H. Res. recognizes the 1915 Armenian genocide&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

This thread is not about America.

Neg for another attempted hijack of my thread.

Turkey and Genocide and the Canadian call for Turkey to address this issue.

Turkey, Republic of, and the Armenian Genocide




Know


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> In any case it's a little more then hypocritical for an Israeli to talk about Turkey's past transgressions given their past. And it's off the scale for an American or Canadian to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at that picture Sallow.
> 
> I've seen many more. Don't tell me that I don't have the right to point out the Armenian genocide. Well, if you do, then you are really lost.
> 
> 
> You just want it to go away maybe?
Click to expand...


Want what to do anyway? The world basically knows what happened. I'm not sure what you are looking for..really.

There have many many many genocides. There's one on-going in the Sudan. Very few people are doing anything about that. Same as the Congo..or any number of places.

You "Never Again" folks seem very concerned about embarrassing people you don't like..and less concerned about the actual "Never Again" thing.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Ottoman Empire - All About Turkey


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> The Ottoman Empire - All About Turkey



And things changed.

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> You "Never Again" folks seem very concerned about embarrassing people you don't like..and less concerned about the actual "Never Again" thing.



And you are clear in your view that because others genocide that they should just be allowed and you favor turning a blind eye.

I say no. You say yes. 



> There have many many many genocides. There's one on-going in the Sudan. Very few people are doing anything about that. Same as the Congo..or any number of places.



We are at an impasse. I will agree to disagree with you. 

Regardless of us "Never Again" folks.


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> You "Never Again" folks seem very concerned about embarrassing people you don't like..and less concerned about the actual "Never Again" thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you are clear in your view that because others genocide that they should just be allowed and you favor turning a blind eye.
> 
> I say no. You say yes.
> 
> We are at an impasse. I will agree to disagree with you.
> 
> Regardless of us "Never Again" folks.
Click to expand...


I don't favor turning a blind eye to any genocide. I was very pleased about what happened in the Balkans. I think the US should be bombing the crap out of Janjaweed supply lines. I also believe in intervention to stop any ongoing Genocide.

Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> The Ottoman Empire - All About Turkey



It's clear, even if those who support Turkey's non-address of the genocide of its Empiric thrust.






> Most Armenians say the genocide began on April 24th 1915 when approximately 250 Armenian intellectuals in Istanbul were rounded up by Turkish authorities and deported.  The Turks began World War I by waging a disastrous campaign against the Russians in the Caucasus.  They blamed the Armenians for defeat by conspiring against them.
> 
> Among other things, Turkish doctors injected morphine into Armenian children, learning that an overdose of morphine leads to death.  Typhoid inoculation destroyed childrens health.  Children were forced onto boats and thrown overboard into the Black Sea to drown. Armenians were marched from their homes and their lands were taken. Mass burnings of Armenian villages occurred.  Mass deportations forced most Armenians out of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> By 1917 the Armenian Problem had been resolved.  Muslim families were brought in to occupy empty villages.
> 
> Today, only 3 million of the worlds 11 million Armenians live in Armenia. To add insult to injury, for the past 16 years Turkey has been enacting economic sanctions against Armenia, crippling its economy. Only 21 countries in the world recognize the genocide.  The U.S. does not officially recognize it because it does not want to anger Turkey, a key ally in the war on terrorism and a strategic basing center for U.S. troops leftover from the Cold War.
> 
> Outside witnesses: Both Germans and Americans inside the Ottoman Empire witnessed the genocide. At the time Germany was a war ally and America was neutral. German officials who were able to visit Turkey, saw what happened and were able to document the atrocities; that is where some of the pictures come from.  U.S. missionaries, who helped set up schools in Turkey for Armenians, were also witnesses to the genocide.  Next to U.S. consuls, they became the second-most important group of witnesses of the Armenian Genocide.



The Armenian genocide « Abagond


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?



Create a thread about it and ask rather than hijack this one. 

Well, continue if you wish. I will simply use the broken record technique against hijacking.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ottoman Empire - All About Turkey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's clear, even if those who support Turkey's non-address of the genocide of its Empiric thrust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Armenians say the genocide began on April 24th 1915 when approximately 250 Armenian intellectuals in Istanbul were rounded up by Turkish authorities and deported.  The Turks began World War I by waging a disastrous campaign against the Russians in the Caucasus.  They blamed the Armenians for defeat by conspiring against them.
> 
> Among other things, Turkish doctors injected morphine into Armenian children, learning that an overdose of morphine leads to death.  Typhoid inoculation destroyed childrens health.  Children were forced onto boats and thrown overboard into the Black Sea to drown. Armenians were marched from their homes and their lands were taken. Mass burnings of Armenian villages occurred.  Mass deportations forced most Armenians out of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> By 1917 the Armenian Problem had been resolved.  Muslim families were brought in to occupy empty villages.
> 
> Today, only 3 million of the worlds 11 million Armenians live in Armenia. To add insult to injury, for the past 16 years Turkey has been enacting economic sanctions against Armenia, crippling its economy. Only 21 countries in the world recognize the genocide.  The U.S. does not officially recognize it because it does not want to anger Turkey, a key ally in the war on terrorism and a strategic basing center for U.S. troops leftover from the Cold War.
> 
> Outside witnesses: Both Germans and Americans inside the Ottoman Empire witnessed the genocide. At the time Germany was a war ally and America was neutral. German officials who were able to visit Turkey, saw what happened and were able to document the atrocities; that is where some of the pictures come from.  U.S. missionaries, who helped set up schools in Turkey for Armenians, were also witnesses to the genocide.  Next to U.S. consuls, they became the second-most important group of witnesses of the Armenian Genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Armenian genocide « Abagond
Click to expand...


This is the same thing Saddam Hussein did in the 1980s when he evicted Kurds from their homes in Mosul, Kirkuk and other cities in the North and re-populated them with Arabs. In Sudan they have been also doing this for decades, more recently with the Nuba people.


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> This is the same thing Saddam Hussein did in the 1980s when he evicted Kurds from their homes in Mosul, Kirkuk and other cities in the North and re-populated them with Arabs. In Sudan they have been also doing this for decades, more recently with the Nuba people.



This thread is about Turkey and their genocide of the Armenians.


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Create a thread about it and ask rather than hijack this one.
> 
> Well, continue if you wish. I will simply use the broken record technique against hijacking.
Click to expand...


So basically you put these threads up..and expect not to be challenged?

Then what's the point?


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> You "Never Again" folks seem very concerned about embarrassing people you don't like..and less concerned about the actual "Never Again" thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you are clear in your view that because others genocide that they should just be allowed and you favor turning a blind eye.
> 
> I say no. You say yes.
> 
> We are at an impasse. I will agree to disagree with you.
> 
> Regardless of us "Never Again" folks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't favor turning a blind eye to any genocide. I was very pleased about what happened in the Balkans. I think the US should be bombing the crap out of Janjaweed supply lines. I also believe in intervention to stop any ongoing Genocide.
> 
> Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?
Click to expand...


Israel gives Military training to Sudanese rebels and gives them weapons.



> Mystery has surrounded the reported arrest of two Israelis in Jordan who allegedly smuggled weapons to rebels in Sudan's troubled Darfur region.
> 
> According to a Thursday report in the London-based Arabic-daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, Jordanian intelligence arrested the pair a few days ago. The two, who were not identified, reportedly told them that Sudanese rebels had also undergone military training in Israel. Quoting unnamed senior Jordanian intelligence sources, the report said one of the suspects admitted to being a "close associate" of the younger son of Danny Yatom, a Labor MK and former Mossad chief. The paper also said that the two Israelis gave details to their interrogators of where the Sudanese rebels would rendezvous with them in Sudan and where they underwent training in Israel, the pan-Arab Saudi newspaper reported. They said that the two belonged to an Israeli arms-smuggling network which included Shimon Naor and Amos Golan, two businessmen involved in arms sales and military training. Rachel Shani, a spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry, said that Israel's ambassador to Jordan had made inquires with Jordanian officials about the report. "He asked the authorities there and they told him they had no knowledge of any Israelis having been arrested recently," Shani said. "We are familiar with the reports. The whole story seems strange." She also said they had not received any report of missing Israelis in Jordan. The reports come as Israel is joining US Jewish groups in sending humanitarian aid to Sudan's war-torn Darfur region. Israel has no diplomatic ties with the Muslim country south of Egypt where Arab militias known as the Janjaweed are killing tens of thousands of black Muslims in Darfur in a campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide. The two Israelis mentioned in the report are well-known in Israeli security circles. Naor, a Romanian-born former officer in the Israeli Navy, has been involved in dubious weapons deals. He was arrested in Romania in 1999 on charges he sold weapons to Nigeria and Eritrea in violation of EU embargoes on African trouble spots. He was released on bail and fled to Israel. But a Romanian court subsequently sentenced him to seven years in prison. He could not be reached for comment. Golan runs Silver Shadow, a reputable company involved in security training. Golan, 50, is a former deputy commander of an anti-terror unit and retired from the IDF nine years ago with the rank of lieutenant-colonel. His partner, Nitzan Nadel, said he was currently in the United States and unavailable for comment.



Sudan Vision Daily News Paper Official Website - Did two Israelis sell arms to Sudan rebels?


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Create a thread about it and ask rather than hijack this one.
> 
> Well, continue if you wish. I will simply use the broken record technique against hijacking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So basically you put these threads up..and expect not to be challenged?
> 
> Then what's the point?
Click to expand...


Challenge the OP. You know that.

Come on Sallow. Quit whining and stay on track.


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Create a thread about it and ask rather than hijack this one.
> 
> Well, continue if you wish. I will simply use the broken record technique against hijacking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So basically you put these threads up..and expect not to be challenged?
> 
> Then what's the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Challenge the OP. You know that.
> 
> Come on Sallow. Quit whining and stay on track.
Click to expand...


Not whining at all.

See High_Gravity? He came back with a relevant fact.

That's how this works.


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> Not whining at all.



Yes you are by complaining you are not allowed to post to hijack a thread. 

You are also minimizing the act of genocide by attempting to attach a human identity to it in general so that you can then attempt to create comparisons as if those comparisons show a moral equivalence.


----------



## Ropey

So HG hijacks this thread to show Israel supporting the fight against genocide in Sudan. You created the hijack and support HG in this.

This thread is not about that. Note that I responded to him in the same way as you and I assume that he dislikes the neg as much as you as well. 

Regardless.


----------



## High_Gravity

> The Armenian Genocide was carried out by the "Young Turk" government of the Ottoman Empire in 1915-1916 (with subsidiaries to 1922-23). One and a half million Armenians were killed, out of a total of two and a half million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire.
> Most Armenians in America are children or grandchildren of the survivors, although there are still many survivors amongst us.
> 
> Armenians all over the world commemorate this great tragedy on April 24, because it was on that day in 1915 when 300 Armenian leaders, writers, thinkers and professionals in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were rounded up, deported and killed. Also on that day in Constantinople, 5,000 of the poorest Armenians were butchered in the streets and in their homes.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide was masterminded by the Central Committee of the Young Turk Party (Committee for Union and Progress [Ittihad ve Terakki Cemiyet, in Turkish]) which was dominated by Mehmed Talât [Pasha], Ismail Enver [Pasha], and Ahmed Djemal [Pasha]. They were a racist group whose ideology was articulated by Zia Gökalp, Dr. Mehmed Nazim, and Dr. Behaeddin Shakir.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide was directed by a Special Organization (Teshkilati Mahsusa) set up by the Committee of Union and Progress, which created special "butcher battalions," made up of violent criminals released from prison.
> 
> Some righteous Ottoman officials such as Celal, governor of Aleppo; Mazhar, governor of Ankara; and Reshid, governor of Kastamonu, were dismissed for not complying with the extermination campaign. Any common Turks who protected Armenians were killed.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide occurred in a systematic fashion, which proves that it was directed by the Young Turk government.
> 
> First the Armenians in the army were disarmed, placed into labor battalions, and then killed.
> 
> Then the Armenian political and intellectual leaders were rounded up on April 24, 1915, and then killed.
> 
> Finally, the remaining Armenians were called from their homes, told they would be relocated, and then marched off to concentration camps in the desert between Jerablus and Deir ez-Zor where they would starve and thirst to death in the burning sun.
> 
> On the march, often they would be denied food and water, and many were brutalized and killed by their "guards" or by "marauders." The authorities in Trebizond, on the Black Sea coast, did vary this routine: they loaded Armenians on barges and sank them out at sea.
> 
> The Turkish government today denies that there was an Armenian genocide and claims that Armenians were only removed from the eastern "war zone." The Armenian Genocide, however, occurred all over Anatolia [present-day Turkey], and not just in the so-called "war zone." Deportations and killings occurred in the west, in and around Ismid (Izmit) and Broussa (Bursa); in the center, in and around Angora (Ankara); in the south-west, in and around Konia (Konya) and Adana (which is near the Mediterranean Sea); in the central portion of Anatolia, in and around Diyarbekir (Diyarbakir), Harpout (Harput), Marash, Sivas (Sepastia), Shabin Kara-Hissar (&#65533;ebin Karahisar), and Ourfa (Urfa); and on the Black Sea coast, in and around Trebizond (Trabzon), all of which are not part of a war zone. Only Erzeroum, Bitlis, and Van in the east were in the war zone.



FACT SHEET: ARMENIAN GENOCIDE


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> So HG hijacks this thread to show Israel supporting the fight against genocide in Sudan. You created the hijack and support HG in this.
> 
> This thread is not about that. Note that I responded to him in the same way as you and I assume that he dislikes the neg as much as you as well.
> 
> Regardless.



Well I am not really sure what you are looking for then.

Are you saying that all nations should comply with UN resolutions? Or that Turks are evil and wicked people? Or that the sky is blue? Or that chocolate milk comes from a chocolate cow?

Something bad happened to Armenians and the Turks were responsible. No one really denies that. Turks see it one way..other people see it another way. They were asked to "apologize" and didn't. That should be the end of the story. Because no one really has any standing to force them to do something they don't want to do. And why it's such an issue among the right wing..and Israelis..is pretty suspect.

So..if you want..in the interest of your thread's harmony..

I agree something terrible happened to the Armenians..and I agree that the Turks were responsible. Those are the facts.

Happy?


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> [I agree something terrible happened to the Armenians..and I agree that the Turks were responsible. Those are the facts.
> 
> Happy?



Something terrible. 

Are you really that dim? Or just pretending?



High_Gravity said:


> The Armenian Genocide was carried out by the "Young Turk" government of the Ottoman Empire in 1915-1916 (with subsidiaries to 1922-23). One and a half million Armenians were killed, out of a total of two and a half million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire.
> Most Armenians in America are children or grandchildren of the survivors, although there are still many survivors amongst us.
> 
> Armenians all over the world commemorate this great tragedy on April 24, because it was on that day in 1915 when 300 Armenian leaders, writers, thinkers and professionals in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were rounded up, deported and killed. Also on that day in Constantinople, 5,000 of the poorest Armenians were butchered in the streets and in their homes.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide was masterminded by the Central Committee of the Young Turk Party (Committee for Union and Progress [Ittihad ve Terakki Cemiyet, in Turkish]) which was dominated by Mehmed Talât [Pasha], Ismail Enver [Pasha], and Ahmed Djemal [Pasha]. They were a racist group whose ideology was articulated by Zia Gökalp, Dr. Mehmed Nazim, and Dr. Behaeddin Shakir.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide was directed by a Special Organization (Teshkilati Mahsusa) set up by the Committee of Union and Progress, which created special "butcher battalions," made up of violent criminals released from prison.
> 
> Some righteous Ottoman officials such as Celal, governor of Aleppo; Mazhar, governor of Ankara; and Reshid, governor of Kastamonu, were dismissed for not complying with the extermination campaign. Any common Turks who protected Armenians were killed.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide occurred in a systematic fashion, which proves that it was directed by the Young Turk government.
> 
> First the Armenians in the army were disarmed, placed into labor battalions, and then killed.
> 
> Then the Armenian political and intellectual leaders were rounded up on April 24, 1915, and then killed.
> 
> Finally, the remaining Armenians were called from their homes, told they would be relocated, and then marched off to concentration camps in the desert between Jerablus and Deir ez-Zor where they would starve and thirst to death in the burning sun.
> 
> On the march, often they would be denied food and water, and many were brutalized and killed by their "guards" or by "marauders." The authorities in Trebizond, on the Black Sea coast, did vary this routine: they loaded Armenians on barges and sank them out at sea.
> 
> The Turkish government today denies that there was an Armenian genocide and claims that Armenians were only removed from the eastern "war zone." The Armenian Genocide, however, occurred all over Anatolia [present-day Turkey], and not just in the so-called "war zone." Deportations and killings occurred in the west, in and around Ismid (Izmit) and Broussa (Bursa); in the center, in and around Angora (Ankara); in the south-west, in and around Konia (Konya) and Adana (which is near the Mediterranean Sea); in the central portion of Anatolia, in and around Diyarbekir (Diyarbakir), Harpout (Harput), Marash, Sivas (Sepastia), Shabin Kara-Hissar (&#65533;ebin Karahisar), and Ourfa (Urfa); and on the Black Sea coast, in and around Trebizond (Trabzon), all of which are not part of a war zone. Only Erzeroum, Bitlis, and Van in the east were in the war zone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FACT SHEET: ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
Click to expand...


^^ Quoted for clarity.

Something terrible, for comparison is an earthquake where many die Sallow.

Genocide is far more than that and this is about Turkey's genocide of the Armenians AND Canada's desire for Turkey to address this systematic slaughter of a people.

Which is why I posted this to you just a few posts back.



> *
> You are also minimizing the act of genocide by attempting to attach a human identity to it in general so that you can then attempt to create comparisons as if those comparisons show a moral equivalence.*


----------



## High_Gravity

I think Turkey needs to man up and own what happened to the Armenians, America takes full blame for slavery and throwing the Japanese in internment camps during WW2, you have to own your mistakes as well as your accomplishments.


----------



## Ropey

FACT SHEET: ARMENIAN GENOCIDE

There is no response to this map. I believe that's terrible. 

The genocide is far worse imo.


----------



## High_Gravity

Why the Turkish Revenge Brigade launches threats now



> Do not forget that beside the Armenian citizens of Turkey, there are also Armenians from Armenia in our land, and they number over 100,000. Both their addresses and their workplaces are well known.
> 
> Henceforth, we hope to see our Armenian citizens as advocates of truth concerning the Armenian genocide or any other matter and as defenders of Turkish statehood.
> 
> We shall keep an eye on how the Armenians are playing this role. Otherwise, Armenians shall be those to lie in the grave and count how many Armenians and how many Turks there were in the ages long past.' This land has never pardoned treachery and shall not. Who does not stand for our paradise homeland is against us and shall be vanquished.
> 
> These passages are taken from a letter that was sent to Armenian schools in 2007. It was sent after Hrant Dink was killed, and the letter was threatening Turkey's handful of minorities. In those days, minorities used to receive these kinds of nasty letters on a daily basis. When the Ergenekon probe started not only did we gain an insight into who was behind these threats, but we also witnessed that these kinds of threats stopped immediately.
> 
> In those days not only were minority groups but also intellectuals seriously threatened. One of these intellectuals was Bask&#305;n Oran, an academic and human rights defender. Oran is very well known in Turkey with his firm stance in defending the rights of minorities. An ultranationalist group -- and in my opinion one of the unexposed Ergenekon cells -- the Turkish Revenge Brigade (T&#304;T), used to threaten Oran in those days.
> 
> This cell was apparently recently reactivated and threatened Oran and others. Oran received the latest threat on June 2 through a message sent via email to the Armenian Agos newspaper, where he is working as a columnist.
> 
> The threatening letter contained a death list including Turkish-Armenian journalist Etyen Mahçupyan and Kurdish politicians Osman Baydemir, Sebahat Tuncel and Ak&#305;n Birdal. The letter was signed by T&#304;T and read as follows:
> 
> "He leads a dishonorable life by currying favor with the Armenians. Bask&#305;n Oran, you still cannot put up with the word 'Turk' on Turkish soil.  Take your dogs and go to Armenia. Otherwise, death will be the inevitable end for you.  Your time has come to die.  We hereby announce as the Turkish Revenge Brigade that we will close this account. On June 17, we will remove the bastard called Bask&#305;n Oran, and we will demonstrate the power of Turkish honor."
> 
> Oran published an important article in Radikal this Sunday and tried to explain why these kinds of threats started to be sent once again. I found his explanations quite illuminative and insightful. I took his analysis very seriously, and I hope it will be taken seriously by the people concerned as well.
> 
> Oran said that the threats he used to receive from T&#304;T before had suddenly come to an end when the Ergenekon investigation started. He also explains T&#304;T's re-emergence nowadays with the failures in the Ergenekon trial. Among other things, he emphasizes the following shortcomings and wrongdoings with respect to the Ergenekon case:
> 
> 1) The Ergenekon cases were not probed deeply in the right direction. They went sideways. These cases are not handled by efficient courts, and they are taking ages to proceed.
> 
> 2) Ergenekon suspects are encouraged by the judiciary's attitude. They openly threaten the court before which they are being tried in the hearings. And the courts can do nothing to stop them.
> 
> 3) The main opposition party, the Republican People's Party (CHP), nominated Ergenekon members as deputy candidates and is now trying to free them from prison.
> 
> I agree with Oran in thinking that the failures and shortcomings in the struggle against the Ergenekon gang may be encouraging some unexposed elements within this gang to continue with their old business.
> 
> I hope these threats will not mark a change of direction in Turkey. I hope they will not be followed by other threats and attacks on minorities and intellectuals as happened before the Ergenekon case was initiated.


 
Why the Turkish Revenge Brigade launches threats now


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> I think Turkey needs to man up and own what happened to the Armenians, America takes full blame for slavery and throwing the Japanese in internment camps during WW2, you have to own your mistakes as well as your accomplishments.



Please.

America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.

I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Turkey needs to man up and own what happened to the Armenians, America takes full blame for slavery and throwing the Japanese in internment camps during WW2, you have to own your mistakes as well as your accomplishments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please.
> 
> America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.
> 
> I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.
Click to expand...


I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, this is like the US trying to deny slavery or slaughtering the Native Americans.


----------



## High_Gravity

The Armenian Genocide: The Holocaust That Inspired Hitler







> It has been called the hidden holocaust because it seems to be almost forgotten.  Armenians call it the Great Crime.  Most historians and scholars consider it to be the first genocide of the 20th century.  It is the second-most studied genocide after the Holocaust. It is also considered the first modern genocide considering the organization, deportation, and efficient executions.
> 
> The Armenian Genocide (1914-1917) was the mass killing of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire [modern-day Turkey] by the Ottomans [Turks].
> 
> Prior to the actual genocide, the Muslim Turks committed a series of massacres against the Armenians, most of whom were Christian:
> 
> Hamidian Massacres (1894-1896)Estimated deaths: 100,000-300,000
> 
> Adana Massacre (1909)Estimated deaths: 15,000-30,000
> 
> Armenian Genocide (1915-1917): 1,000,000-1,500,000



The Armenian Genocide: The Holocaust That Inspired Hitler | serpentus


----------



## Ropey

I believe that there's no doubt where Turkey's direction is headed. Islamic fundamentalism is the path to the next attempted creation of an Empiric thrust.

I also believe that had Turkey continued on their secular path, and expiated their genocide they would already be a part of the EU.

It's a two threaded issue. The genocide that happened before and what may return to the arena, so I personally would like to see Turkey address this wrong but they are moving in the opposite direction and I see it clearly.

Others may see it differently and some I will simply agree to disagree with when they do not see the same degree of the issue.

I mean if someone says that genocide is terrible, then everything else that is considered terrible is conflated and attached to genocide in a moral equivalence.

What's left to argue if the main tenet facet is devalued?



High_Gravity said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Turkey needs to man up and own what happened to the Armenians, America takes full blame for slavery and throwing the Japanese in internment camps during WW2, you have to own your mistakes as well as your accomplishments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please.
> 
> America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.
> 
> I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, this is like the US trying to deny slavery or slaughtering the Native Americans.
Click to expand...


Because I believe what is in plan for Turkey's future is more of the same.



> Hitler thought that if the Turks could commit genocide and get away with it, so could he. Two years before the Holocaust he said:
> 
> *Who after all speaks today of the of the annihilation of the Armenians?*






*The Armenian genocide « Abagond*


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Turkey needs to man up and own what happened to the Armenians, America takes full blame for slavery and throwing the Japanese in internment camps during WW2, you have to own your mistakes as well as your accomplishments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please.
> 
> America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.
> 
> I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, this is like the US trying to deny slavery or slaughtering the Native Americans.
Click to expand...


I put this up for Ropey..but you may want to take a gander too.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...or-ropey-u-s-genocide-in-the-philippines.html

The US has yet to apologize for lots of things..like the Philippines, China (Boxer Rebellion), Iran, Vietnam, and now Iraq.

Israel isn't all that "innocent" either.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please.
> 
> America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.
> 
> I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, this is like the US trying to deny slavery or slaughtering the Native Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I put this up for Ropey..but you may want to take a gander too.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...or-ropey-u-s-genocide-in-the-philippines.html
> 
> The US has yet to apologize for lots of things..like the Philippines, China (Boxer Rebellion), Iran, Vietnam, and now Iraq.
> 
> Israel isn't all that "innocent" either.
Click to expand...


Turkey doesn't even acknowledge the Armenian genocide occured though, all these atrocities you listed are right there in the American History books.


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, this is like the US trying to deny slavery or slaughtering the Native Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put this up for Ropey..but you may want to take a gander too.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...or-ropey-u-s-genocide-in-the-philippines.html
> 
> The US has yet to apologize for lots of things..like the Philippines, China (Boxer Rebellion), Iran, Vietnam, and now Iraq.
> 
> Israel isn't all that "innocent" either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkey doesn't even acknowledge the Armenian genocide occured though, all these atrocities you listed are right there in the American History books.
Click to expand...


Yeah..but they aren't acknowledged as Genocides.


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I put this up for Ropey..but you may want to take a gander too.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...or-ropey-u-s-genocide-in-the-philippines.html
> 
> The US has yet to apologize for lots of things..like the Philippines, China (Boxer Rebellion), Iran, Vietnam, and now Iraq.
> 
> Israel isn't all that "innocent" either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey doesn't even acknowledge the Armenian genocide occured though, all these atrocities you listed are right there in the American History books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah..but they aren't acknowledged as Genocides.
Click to expand...


You continually try to hijack this and HG likes to follow hijacks, but I will continue to put this back on track.

Where are the Armenians in what is now called Turkey Sallow? 

Tell us.


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> I put this up for Ropey
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...or-ropey-u-s-genocide-in-the-philippines.html
> 
> The US has yet to apologize for lots of things..like the Philippines, China (Boxer Rebellion), Iran, Vietnam, and now Iraq.
> 
> Israel isn't all that "innocent" either.



Because you are simply hijacking the OP.

Do I need to repost the OP? 



			
				Ropey said:
			
		

> *I mean if someone says that genocide is terrible, then everything else that is considered terrible is conflated and attached to genocide in a moral equivalence.*



What's left to argue if the main tenet facet is devalued?

That's where the agenda of Sallow is to be found.


----------



## Sallow

Ropey said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I put this up for Ropey
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...or-ropey-u-s-genocide-in-the-philippines.html
> 
> The US has yet to apologize for lots of things..like the Philippines, China (Boxer Rebellion), Iran, Vietnam, and now Iraq.
> 
> Israel isn't all that "innocent" either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because you are simply hijacking the OP.
> 
> Do I need to repost the OP?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I mean if someone says that genocide is terrible, then everything else that is considered terrible is conflated and attached to genocide in a moral equivalence.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's left to argue if the main tenet facet is devalued?
> 
> That's where the agenda of Sallow is to be found.
Click to expand...


Your contention might be valid if Turkey continued along the same trajectory. It has not. In fact..it's been a valuable ally to the United States. It's also become one of the most successful countries in the region. It was Ataturk that modernized Turkey..and I never see a thread from you..or frankly any pro Israeli poster acknowledging this. It's also been an important player in terms of regional stability.

You and your ilk seek nothing more to demonize the country and it's people. That's why we see thread after thread about this particular event.

Your interest is pretty clear. And it's not to stop Genocide.


----------



## Ropey

Sallow said:


> Your interest is pretty clear. And it's not to stop Genocide.



^^ My interest is to hold Turkey to account so that it does not repeat its history. I see and believe that the movement in Turkey is to repeat its past in the next great war. I see that this war comes. 

^^ My OP reasoning.



Sallow said:


> You and your ilk seek nothing more to demonize the country and it's people. That's why we see thread after thread about this particular event.



Yes, my ilk.


----------



## Synthaholic

Sallow said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> So HG hijacks this thread to show Israel supporting the fight against genocide in Sudan. You created the hijack and support HG in this.
> 
> This thread is not about that. Note that I responded to him in the same way as you and I assume that he dislikes the neg as much as you as well.
> 
> Regardless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I am not really sure what you are looking for then.
> 
> *Are you saying that all nations should comply with UN resolutions?* Or that Turks are evil and wicked people? Or that the sky is blue? Or that chocolate milk comes from a chocolate cow?
> 
> Something bad happened to Armenians and the Turks were responsible. No one really denies that. Turks see it one way..other people see it another way. They were asked to "apologize" and didn't. That should be the end of the story. Because no one really has any standing to force them to do something they don't want to do. And why it's such an issue among the right wing..and Israelis..is pretty suspect.
> 
> So..if you want..in the interest of your thread's harmony..
> 
> I agree something terrible happened to the Armenians..and I agree that the Turks were responsible. Those are the facts.
> 
> Happy?
Click to expand...



Oh, I doubt *very much* that he wants THAT!!!


----------



## Synthaholic

High_Gravity said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Turkey needs to man up and own what happened to the Armenians, America takes full blame for slavery and throwing the Japanese in internment camps during WW2, you have to own your mistakes as well as your accomplishments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please.
> 
> America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.
> 
> I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, *this is like the US trying to deny *slavery or* slaughtering the Native Americans.*
Click to expand...


Where is the official U.S. acknowledgement?


----------



## High_Gravity

Synthaholic said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please.
> 
> America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.
> 
> I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, *this is like the US trying to deny *slavery or* slaughtering the Native Americans.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the official U.S. acknowledgement?
Click to expand...


Open a US History book, its in there.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sorry for derailing your thread Ropey.


----------



## Sallow

Synthaholic said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please.
> 
> America's forgotten more "bad things" then has admitted to them.
> 
> I think America is a far more positive then negative country..but it has it's share of dark moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, *this is like the US trying to deny *slavery or* slaughtering the Native Americans.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the official U.S. acknowledgement?
Click to expand...


Well Clinton on Slavery..



> President Clinton did so in 1998 when he said:
> 
> Surely every American knows that slavery was wrong, and we paid a terrible price for [it], and that we had to keep repairing that.
> 
> "And just to say that it's wrong and that we are sorry about it is not a bad thing.
> 
> "That doesn't weaken us."
> 
> BBCCaribbean.com | An apology for slavery


----------



## Ropey

Ropey said:


> *You are also minimizing the act of genocide by attempting to attach a human identity to it in general so that you can then attempt to create comparisons as if those comparisons show a moral equivalence.*





Where are the Armenians in Turkey?  No one wants to respond to this for some reason.

Google Armenians in Turkey

where are the armenians in turkey - Google Search



> Armenians living nowadays in Turkey are a remnant of a once much larger community that existed for hundreds of years and long before the establishment of the Sultanate of Rum. Estimates for the number of Armenian citizens of the Ottoman Empire in the decade before World War I range between 1.3 to 1.8 million. During the Ottoman Empire, the Armenians of Turkey were active in business and trade, just like the Greeks and Jews[3] of Turkey.


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## Ropey

Now the thread is wide open to anyone and any hijack. 

I'm done here.


----------



## Synthaholic

High_Gravity said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, *this is like the US trying to deny *slavery or* slaughtering the Native Americans.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the official U.S. acknowledgement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Open a US History book, its in there.
Click to expand...

That's not an answer.


----------



## Synthaholic

Sallow said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the big deal, why shouldn't Turkey just own this and admit it? its not like its a big secret anymore, *this is like the US trying to deny *slavery or* slaughtering the Native Americans.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the official U.S. acknowledgement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Clinton on Slavery..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Clinton did so in 1998 when he said:
> 
> Surely every American knows that slavery was wrong, and we paid a terrible price for [it], and that we had to keep repairing that.
> 
> "And just to say that it's wrong and that we are sorry about it is not a bad thing.
> 
> "That doesn't weaken us."
> 
> BBCCaribbean.com | An apology for slavery
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That's why I didn't *bold *the slavery part.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> Now the thread is wide open to anyone and any hijack.
> 
> I'm done here.


Translation:  my argument has no substance, so I will slink away.


----------



## High_Gravity

> The denial of the Armenian Genocide is the assertion that the Armenian Genocide did not occur in the manner or to the extent described by scholarship. Denial of the Armenian Genocide is forbidden in some countries. The Armenian Genocide is widely acknowledged by genocide scholars to have been one of the first modern, systematic genocides,[1][2] as many Western sources point to the sheer scale of the death toll as evidence for a systematic, organized plan to eliminate the Armenians.[3]
> 
> *The Republic of Turkey,[4] as well as the Republic of Azerbaijan,[5] do not accept that the Ottoman authorities attempted to exterminate the Armenian people.[6] The Turkish government acknowledges that during World War I many Armenians died, but counters that Muslim Turks died as well, and claims that the number of Armenian victims has been inflated, and that massacres were committed by both sides as a result of inter-ethnic violence and the wider conflict of World War I.[*6]



Armenian Genocide denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## High_Gravity

Synthaholic said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the official U.S. acknowledgement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open a US History book, its in there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not an answer.
Click to expand...


Huh? when did the US ever deny slavery or massacring the Native Americans?


----------



## Sallow

Synthaholic said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now the thread is wide open to anyone and any hijack.
> 
> I'm done here.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  my argument has no substance, so I will slink away.
Click to expand...


He also conveniently forgets that during WWII the Turks allowed Jewish people fleeing Europe to come to Istanbul...and if they chose..to have safe passage to Palestine.

Like so many others, ol' Ropey has a dagger ready for the back of Turkey.


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now the thread is wide open to anyone and any hijack.
> 
> I'm done here.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  my argument has no substance, so I will slink away.
Click to expand...


*No, you just want to propel your agenda which is to deflect.
*
I've said my piece. Anyone can read my view and ascertain my thoughts.

Repetition would be useless to my view. 

And triply so to you and Sallow.


----------



## Ropey

It's not who stays here the longest boys.


----------



## tinydancer

Here's for me. Why don't all of us hehehehe "younger kids" just call it a draw. (please hang in with me I'm approaching a _______fill in the blank decade of life. so I'm having fun calling others basically young whipper snappers.)

 Say that our ancestors really were freaking jerks and did really bad things to each other on a mass scale.

Have done. Move on. Why are all of us still arguing what happened eons ago? Jerks. Moronic sociopaths who never came to the family dinner on Sunday. And that my father and my uncle never had a chance to take "hunting".....yeah yeah thats the ticket it was a stray bullet.....

Be the kid going "I had an uncle called Adolph?????" and then move on.


----------



## tinydancer

Sallow said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now the thread is wide open to anyone and any hijack.
> 
> I'm done here.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  my argument has no substance, so I will slink away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He also conveniently forgets that during WWII the Turks allowed Jewish people fleeing Europe to come to Istanbul...and if they chose..to have safe passage to Palestine.
> 
> Like so many others, ol' Ropey has a dagger ready for the back of Turkey.
Click to expand...


Turkey, if memory serves me well was a serious conduit for Jews running for their lives. As was Holland.

Now though there is a serious problem with uber conservative Islamists who want to literally take out the moderates.

It's a time bomb I've been watching for some time.


----------



## Sallow

tinydancer said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  my argument has no substance, so I will slink away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also conveniently forgets that during WWII the Turks allowed Jewish people fleeing Europe to come to Istanbul...and if they chose..to have safe passage to Palestine.
> 
> Like so many others, ol' Ropey has a dagger ready for the back of Turkey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkey, if memory serves me well was a serious conduit for Jews running for their lives. As was Holland.
> 
> Now though there is a serious problem with uber conservative Islamists who want to literally take out the moderates.
> 
> It's a time bomb I've been watching for some time.
Click to expand...


We have the very same problem here. Except the "Islamists" are "Evangelists".


----------



## tinydancer

Sallow said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also conveniently forgets that during WWII the Turks allowed Jewish people fleeing Europe to come to Istanbul...and if they chose..to have safe passage to Palestine.
> 
> Like so many others, ol' Ropey has a dagger ready for the back of Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey, if memory serves me well was a serious conduit for Jews running for their lives. As was Holland.
> 
> Now though there is a serious problem with uber conservative Islamists who want to literally take out the moderates.
> 
> It's a time bomb I've been watching for some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have the very same problem here. Except the "Islamists" are "Evangelists".
Click to expand...


Sans bombing vests hello??????

And without anyone like the mother of all suicide chicks.  I've yet to see a nun who would convince parishioners to rape a virgin and then convince the raped virgin to seek redemption by blowing herself up.

Man that's one bitch from hades. I don't think they have executed her yet. I'm looking forward to the moment though.


----------



## Sallow

tinydancer said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey, if memory serves me well was a serious conduit for Jews running for their lives. As was Holland.
> 
> Now though there is a serious problem with uber conservative Islamists who want to literally take out the moderates.
> 
> It's a time bomb I've been watching for some time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the very same problem here. Except the "Islamists" are "Evangelists".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sans bombing vests hello??????
> 
> And without anyone like the mother of all suicide chicks.  I've yet to see a nun who would convince parishioners to rape a virgin and then convince the raped virgin to seek redemption by blowing herself up.
> 
> Man that's one bitch from hades. I don't think they have executed her yet. I'm looking forward to the moment though.
Click to expand...


They are using trucks.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMrYeMTXifc]YouTube - &#x202a;news footage from Oklahoma bombing&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## Synthaholic

tinydancer said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey, if memory serves me well was a serious conduit for Jews running for their lives. As was Holland.
> 
> Now though there is a serious problem with uber conservative Islamists who want to literally take out the moderates.
> 
> It's a time bomb I've been watching for some time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have the very same problem here. Except the "Islamists" are "Evangelists".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sans bombing vests hello??????
Click to expand...


They are ready, willing and able to blow up the U.S. economy without any explosives other than their ignorant stubbornness.


----------



## Ropey

tinydancer said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  my argument has no substance, so I will slink away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also conveniently forgets that during WWII the Turks allowed Jewish people fleeing Europe to come to Istanbul...and if they chose..to have safe passage to Palestine.
> 
> Like so many others, ol' Ropey has a dagger ready for the back of Turkey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkey, if memory serves me well was a serious conduit for Jews running for their lives. As was Holland.
> 
> Now though there is a serious problem with uber conservative Islamists who want to literally take out the moderates.
> 
> It's a time bomb I've been watching for some time.
Click to expand...


And since they won't admit their genocide. And since they are not the secularists they once were and now move to fundamentalist ideological Islam and are changing their constitution to allow for greater Islamic fundamentalism control.

I say watch them well lest they repeat on the Kurds.  Israel? We are too far away from Turkeys border. It's about genocide. Not Jews. Not Israel. Genocide.

My view and that's all there is.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ropey said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also conveniently forgets that during WWII the Turks allowed Jewish people fleeing Europe to come to Istanbul...and if they chose..to have safe passage to Palestine.
> 
> Like so many others, ol' Ropey has a dagger ready for the back of Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey, if memory serves me well was a serious conduit for Jews running for their lives. As was Holland.
> 
> Now though there is a serious problem with uber conservative Islamists who want to literally take out the moderates.
> 
> It's a time bomb I've been watching for some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And since they won't admit their genocide. And since they are not the secularists they once were and now move to fundamentalist ideological Islam and are changing their constitution to allow for greater Islamic fundamentalism control.
> 
> I say watch them well lest they repeat on the Kurds.  Israel? We are too far away from Turkeys border. *It's about genocide.* Not Jews. Not Israel. Genocide.
> 
> My view and that's all there is.
Click to expand...


It's about flotillas.


----------



## Ropey

Synthaholic said:


> It's about flotillas.



No, it's about *Genocide*.

The term Genocide was coined when talking about this specific action by the Turks in their "Turkish-Ottoman" reign and which when dissolved allowed the Turks to genocide the Armenians and expand their borders. 

So by definition, this would be Genocide. 

Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Before the Turkish Genocide of the Armenians (while they [Turkey] expanded borders)

Now let's be clear.

Historic Armenia:





*Maps Related To The Armenian Genocide*


----------



## ekrem

tinydancer said:


> Now lets deal with the absolute lie that Canada does not trade with Turkey. I get so sick and tired of morons who post lies and absolute lies without getting smacked upside the head.
> 
> Knuckle sandwich coming you moron who posted that Canada does not trade with Turkey.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Canada-Turkey Relations
> Fact Sheet | PDF * (135 KB)
> Political Relations
> Canada and Turkey have longstanding diplomatic relations. In 1947, Canada appointed its first resident Ambassador to Turkey, while  Turkey opened a resident Embassy in Ottawa in 1944. In recent years as friends and allies, Canada and Turkey have expanded the depth and variety of their bilateral links as valued political, commercial, strategic, and security partners. In 2009, these links were further strengthened by a number of new initiatives, including the inauguration of direct flights between Toronto and Istanbul and the signing of an agreement to avoid double taxation.
> 
> Multilateral cooperation has grown through links in NATO, the United Nations and its agencies, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, and the Council of Europe. Through these shared ties, Canada and Turkey are working together toward our common goal of promoting peace and stability throughout Europe and Central Asia.
> 
> Military Cooperation
> Turkey and Canada's Armed Forces have enjoyed a longstanding cooperation. They are both committed to defending democratic values and global security within the frame work of international cooperation and security. Both military forces are excellent partners in the multilateral sphere and work together well within the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO). This has again been recently demonstrated through close Canadian and Turkish cooperation as major contributors to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan.
> 
> Trade
> Canada has a relatively strong commercial relationship with Turkey  the world's 17th largest economy, a G-20 member, and the third most populous nation in Europe (71.9 million) after Germany and Russia. Given its strategic geographic location and negotiated trade agreements, Turkey offers excellent access to markets in Europe (including preferential Customs Union access to the European Union), the Caucasus, Central Asia, and the Middle East.
> 
> Canada-Turkey bilateral merchandise trade has almost doubled in the last five years, reaching $1.9 billion in 2008. Canadian exports to Turkey reached $1.2 billion in 2008, with a product mix ranging from commodities to advanced technology goods. These included approximately $330 million worth of agricultural goods. Turkey is Canada's 22nd largest merchandise export market and the 45th largest source of merchandise imports.
> 
> Investment
> In recent years, Turkey has been one of the top global destinations for Foreign Direct Investment (FDI). Many Canadian companies have recognized the great investment potential Turkey offers. Canadian investments in Turkey stood at about $1.1 billion in 2009 and Export Development Canada has identified the country as a strategic market of opportunity for Canadian firms.
> 
> Niche opportunities exist for Canadian investors, particularly in the energy, information and communication technologies, mining, environment, and agriculture/agri-food sectors. Commercial opportunities in Turkey match Canadian supply capabilities.
> 
> Last updated: November 2009
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> I hate liars.





Your link says, that Canadian-Turkish trade reached 1.9 Billion $ as of 2008.
That's about 0.6% of total Turkish trade with the outside world, which is rising in double-digit % each year (2008-2009 excluded world-crisis).

Bilateral State visits are accompanied by businessmen to bolster business-contacts and if everything goes fine there are even signed business-deals at the end of the State visit. 

Mr. Harper can stay in Canada or visit another country, which he surely does. 
We grew 11% in Q1 of 2011, and if Canada's Harper puts different things on the agenda which hinders him to cooperate with Turkey or even visit Turkey, then it is Canada who looses. 
Others will be lucky, that maybe 1 or 2 business-deals which we might have given to the Canadians are now free of Canadian competition. 
Think about it.


----------



## Ropey

Ropey said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's about flotillas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's about *Genocide*.
> 
> The term Genocide was coined when talking about this specific action by the Turks in their "Turkish-Ottoman" reign and which when dissolved allowed the Turks to genocide the Armenians and expand their borders.
> 
> So by definition, this would be Genocide.
> 
> Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before the Turkish Genocide of the Armenians (while they [Turkey] expanded borders)
> 
> Now let's be clear.
> 
> Historic Armenia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Maps Related To The Armenian Genocide*
Click to expand...


Ekrem.  This is the reason. Your vaunted economics aside.

*This is still the reason.*

And Stephen sees what is happening to the Kurds. You do know Canada has a contingent of Kurdish refugees and hears the stories.

So do we.  Want some of them?  I worry for them too. You? Not so much...


----------



## ekrem

I've witnessed genocide and all I got out of it is a casino in a Canadian reserve.
On whose lands have you built your house upon, besides that Harper is anyway no one - at least in this hemisphere - that anybody takes for serious.


----------



## Ropey

ekrem said:


> I've witnessed genocide and all I got out of it is a casino in a Canadian reserve.
> On whose lands have you built your house upon, besides that Harper is anyway no one - at least in this hemisphere - that anybody takes for serious.



The "First Nations People" of Canada are increasing.  They have their own cultural laws, education laws and their own lands. They are the only people in Canada now able to perform these kinds of self-governing since the Canadian legislation that threw out Jewish/Christian/Menonite, etc. family law allowances *along with the application by Muslims to adopt Sharia family law*.

Canada has stood (again Harper) and apologized to the First Nations people and makes reparations.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=und826qTsrY&feature=related]&#x202a;Harper's Apology&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

And not for the first time.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtITgWunwjw&feature=related]&#x202a;CANADA APOLOGIZES-04&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

And again

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EfbbwPv1tM&feature=related]&#x202a;CANADA APOLOGIZES-01&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

*And the Response from the First Nations People to Canada:*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyXjnGeBDNY&feature=related]&#x202a;CANADA APOLOGIZES-05&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]



> Brave survivors, through the telling of their painful stories, have stripped white supremacy of its authority and legitimacy. The irresistibility of speaking truth to power is real. This morning our elders held a condolence ceremony for those who never heard an apology, never received compensation, *yet courageously fought assimilation* so that we could witness this day.
> 
> Today is not the result of a political game. Instead, it is something that shows the righteousness and importance of our struggle. We know we have many difficult issues to handle. There are many fights still to be fought.
> 
> What happened today signifies a new dawn in the relationship between us and the rest of Canada. We are and always have been an indispensable part of the Canadian identity.





> As a great statesman once said, we are all part of one &#8220;garment of destiny&#8221;. The differences between us are not blood or colour and &#8220;*the ties that bind us are deeper than those that separate us*&#8221;. The &#8220;common road of hope&#8221; will bring us to reconciliation more than any words, laws or legal claims ever could.
> 
> We still have to struggle, but now we are in this together.
> 
> I reach out to all Canadians today in this spirit of reconciliation.
> 
> First Nations Chief Phil Fontaine



Video - Indian Residential Schools Statement of Apology - Phil Fontaine, National Chief, Assembly of First Nations

*Where are the Armenians in Anatolian Turkey ekrem?*[/QUOTE]

*Why does it matter ekrem?  Watch Phil Fontaine and the Chiefs along with so many others begin to cry. 

It matters. And Notice the "Never Again" Harper said.

It matters as well...*


----------

