# White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'



## American_Jihad (Jun 29, 2012)

White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
6/29/12 


First it was a penalty. Then it was a tax. Now it's a penalty again. 

The war of words over what to call the fine attached to the federal health care overhaul's most controversial provision continued Friday, as the White House took issue with the Supreme Court's argument -- even though that argument alone spared President Obama's law. 

The five-justice majority argued that, while the fine imposed by the law for not buying health insurance would otherwise be unconstitutional, the fine is actually legal under Congress' authority to tax. 

Ergo, the fine is officially a "tax" in the eyes of the court. The law stands. 

But in a case of biting the hand that feeds, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Friday the fine is still just a "penalty." 

Calling it a "tax" causes obvious political problems for the White House. Obama fought that label vigorously when selling the bill in 2009.

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Meanwhile, the Obama administration pressed ahead Friday with implementing the law. The Department of Health and Human Services was announcing a new program to help states set up so-called health insurance exchanges, which were established under the law. 

[Bet a lot of states will drag their feet at least to the election]


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Read more: White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax' | Fox News


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## Mr. H. (Jun 30, 2012)

So, taxes aren't gifts. 

What else is new.


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## Stukaman (Jun 30, 2012)

The Obama Whitehouse has always considered the American public as little more than brainless, they think we mindlessly devour every minute particle of information they sparingly issue like crumbs.  The libs, the press and of course Hollywood morons do their utmost to slobber at the feet of this President, no doubt reenforcing this opinion.  So now they think they can have Carney claim this utterly idiotic idea that the new "TAX" is actually a penalty and that someone out there would actually believe them!  Of course, as long as there are libs or the press there will always be plenty of idiots!


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## Vanquish (Jun 30, 2012)

it was good enough logic for yer boy Mitt!!







Wait..don't believe the quote??  Hoooooolllllddd on. We need context, right??

Romney: "It&#39;s not a tax hike. It is a fee, an assessment." - YouTube

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.


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## Annie (Jun 30, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
> 6/29/12
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I'm guessing most states will not spend the money to 'establish the exchanges' until after the election. If Romney wins, they may not be relevant with changes. Why waste the money? None us, liberals or conservatives, want wasted spending.


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## Vanquish (Jun 30, 2012)

Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.


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## buckeye45_73 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.


 
What horseshit. prevantative care requires people doing it, but most dont give a shit. Are you gonna give em a police escort to the doctor now?


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## Annie (Jun 30, 2012)

buckeye45_73 said:


> Vanquish said:
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> > Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.
> ...



and many tens of thousand without insurance cannot afford 'preventative care.' They can't afford insurance fees, even when available through employer. Now they'll be the ones taxed through this wonderful plan.


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## Salt Jones (Jun 30, 2012)

buckeye45_73 said:


> Vanquish said:
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> > Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.
> ...



They can still not give a shit, but now they have to pay $746 per year to do it..


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## Salt Jones (Jun 30, 2012)

Annie said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
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So you are for free universal healthcare for all American citizens?


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## Annie (Jun 30, 2012)

Salt Jones said:


> Annie said:
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There's no such animal. Peter must always be paid.


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## Vanquish (Jun 30, 2012)

People will go get preventative care, if they can afford it.  You're not going to let your foot rot off from diabetic bad circulation. You're going to manage your disease.

You people just won't ever wake up, will you?


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## Vanquish (Jun 30, 2012)

Oh and great job totally ignoring what Mitt said about it NOT being a tax


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jun 30, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
> 6/29/12
> 
> 
> ...





Its an IRS penalty. They have plenty other ones than that. Should I start a list, ya fuckin moron?


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## Clementine (Jun 30, 2012)

The government is allowed to tax us, so he better decide what this is.    The individual mandate was ruled unconstitutional, but the idiot liberal judges said it was okay for the government to tax us for not buying insurance.   What a crock.   The ruling is insane and makes no sense.   

The government should not be allowed to punish us for not doing something that the constitution says we don't have to do.   

The dictator occupying the white house has given us orders and we are threatened with fines and jail if we don't obey.


Full list of Obamacare Tax Hikes

http://m.atr.org/article.php?id=6996 

Those idiots really should have read the bill before voting.   I bet half those clowns still don't understand what they've done.    The damage is immense, but since it doesn't affect them, they don't give a shit about the rest of us.   We will be denied perfectly legal tax deductions if the IRA doesn't think they have substance or if they think we're just trying to reduce our tax burden.   What does that have to do with healthcare?   Nothing, but Obama wants our money since he thinks that he and the liberals are smarter when it comes to spending our money.   We don't deserve anything that we've worked for and they are set to take as much as possible.   He is now God and above all laws, including our constitution.


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## Vanquish (Jun 30, 2012)

Clementine said:


> The government is allowed to tax us, so he better decide what this is.    The individual mandate was ruled unconstitutional, but the idiot liberal judges said it was okay for the government to tax us for not buying insurance.   What a crock.   The ruling is insane and makes no sense.
> 
> The government should not be allowed to punish us for not doing something that the constitution says we don't have to do.
> 
> ...



It wasn't ruled unconstitutional you moron.


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## Annie (Jun 30, 2012)

taking a look see:



Clementine said:


> The government is allowed to tax us, so he better decide what this is.    The individual mandate was ruled unconstitutional, but the idiot liberal judges said it was okay for the government to tax us for not buying insurance.   What a crock.   The ruling is insane and makes no sense.
> 
> The government should not be allowed to punish us for not doing something that the constitution says we don't have to do.
> 
> ...





> Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes
> 
> Thursday, June 28, 2012 3:28 PM | Ryan Ellis and John Kartch (Twitter: @Taxplaya and @JohnKartch)
> 
> ...


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## sfcalifornia (Jun 30, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> 6/29/12
> 
> 
> First it was a penalty. Then it was a tax. Now it's a penalty again.
> ...



Christ, I thought the word marriage was bad enough.  Now we're gonna spend the next 10 years picking apart tax and penalty?  Who gives a shit what it's called?  What it's called doesn't change what it is.


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## Vanquish (Jun 30, 2012)

But.....but....that's all the conservatives have got....


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## Dante (Jun 30, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6039/bobull01.gif
> 
> 
> White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
> ...



FOX News?   The one that said ACA/Obamacare was ruled unConstitutional?  

*btw, your point is not true*

The Court called the mandate a penalty that is for Constitutional purposes, a tax. 

Proof you have no clue what you are talking about: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf


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## Stephanie (Jun 30, 2012)

buckeye45_73 said:


> Vanquish said:
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> > Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.
> ...



no kidding


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## Stephanie (Jun 30, 2012)

sfcalifornia said:


> American_Jihad said:
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yeah, who gives a shit your President lied and is still lying to you


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## Dante (Jun 30, 2012)

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

poor Steph-Infection  hasn't read the ruling either. these lunatics


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## Stephanie (Jun 30, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8erePM8V5U]President Obama&#39;s Pledge Never to Raise Taxes on Anyone Making Less Than $250,000 a Year - YouTube[/ame]


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## SniperFire (Jun 30, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> it was good enough logic for yer boy Mitt!!
> 
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> ...





Except, he was not talking about the 'individual mandate', was he?

Blatant lying is all you boys have.


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## Stephanie (Jun 30, 2012)

You all can bring up RomneyCare all you want, that is a STATE program


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## SniperFire (Jun 30, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.



Great idea.  

But that would cut into your cable bill, so I imagine you are expecting somebody else to pay for it.


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## California Girl (Jun 30, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> it was good enough logic for yer boy Mitt!!
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Do you understand the difference between a 'state' and a 'country'? Need context? Google 'map, United States America'. Hope that helps.

Idiot.


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## jillian (Jun 30, 2012)

it's so good to know the wingers don't miss a beat.


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## jillian (Jun 30, 2012)

California Girl said:


> Vanquish said:
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> > it was good enough logic for yer boy Mitt!!
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that might actually be true... except that romney said it should be done nationally.

until he didn't.

honesty matters, chica.


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## SniperFire (Jun 30, 2012)

jillian said:


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Lying asshole.


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## SniperFire (Jun 30, 2012)

Romney said the Federal government should encourage people to buy their own health insurance.

Each and every time he was asked if the Federal government should mandate people to buy health insurance, he said NO.


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## sfcalifornia (Jun 30, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> sfcalifornia said:
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If the Supreme Court insists it's a tax in order for ACA to pass the Constitutionality test, the _so be it_.  I don't care.  I already have insurance so I won't be paying it whether it's a penalty or a tax or whatever you wingnuts want to cry and whine and boo-hoo about.


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## Stephanie (Jun 30, 2012)

sfcalifornia said:


> Stephanie said:
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yeah we know, typical...it won't affect me so screw the rest of you (right or left) that it will..


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## Sinjorri (Jun 30, 2012)

jillian said:


> California Girl said:
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this is why i love the liberals    THat MIGHT actually be true"  No girl   IT IS TRUE.

LOL   Liberals love spin because facts are to hard to handle.


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## ScreamingEagle (Jun 30, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> it was good enough logic for yer boy Mitt!!
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at least Romney did not lie about it ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT........


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 30, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.



Wow!  And now that's it's all free people will live longer!

Sweet!


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## The T (Jun 30, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Vanquish said:
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> > Then stop paying for emergency care and start paying for the cheaper alternative...preventative care.
> ...




LOL...!~


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 30, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> it was good enough logic for yer boy Mitt!!
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Are you disagreeing with SCOTUS?


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 30, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> jillian said:
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She really is.

She's either fucking ignorant or stupid or a pathological liar


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## sfcalifornia (Jun 30, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> sfcalifornia said:
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hmmmm......   now where have I heard that before.......?  Oh that's right, the usual Republican Mantra.

Anyway, you need to be more precise.  It's: screw those who insist on not carrying health insurance.  Not "the rest of you".


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## signelect (Jun 30, 2012)

According to some of the logic I just read it must follow that if I am fat and don't eat all my vegtable they can tax me.  But wait, what do they do if I can't afford vegtables or for that matter food or health insurance can they still tax me.  Of course they can, Obama will set up a public workers union to monitor and collect these taxes.


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## Stephanie (Jun 30, 2012)

sfcalifornia said:


> Stephanie said:
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yeah whatever, I got you right...


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## The T (Jun 30, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> SniperFire said:
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And makes one question CREDS as a supposed 'Lawyer'.

I think she's a LIAR.


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## Katzndogz (Jun 30, 2012)

I just saw the first political ad calling obama a liar.  It is going to be very effective.  The obamatax is going to turn into a club to beat democrats over the head.  And, democrats will run around saying Roberts was wrong, it's not a tax.


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## Clementine (Jun 30, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
> 6/29/12
> 
> 
> ...



He lied to get it passed.   He misrepresented it to get it through the courts and now he is back to trying to fool the people into believing that he didn't just royally screw us over.   Obama and his ilk know how bad this bill is and that is why they've exempted themselves from it.   It's not about quality affordable health care.   It's about a transfer of power in the name of health care.   We will pay dearly, not just in money, but in substandard health care and doled out services for more money.   Most of the health care bill was new taxes on just about everything and a government taking over the most personal choices we could make.

We know it's not a tax.   We know they lied to push an unconstitutional mandate through.  This needs to be repealed.   Polls consistently show a majority against it and now it's clear that the only way to get rid of Obamacare is to get Obama and other radicals out of Washington.

Roberts merely stated they have a right to tax us.   If Obama denies this is a tax, then states shouldn't have to follow this.   I hope more states follow Florida and refuse to implement this piece of shit legislation.    Let Obama sue the entire country.    He loves doing that anyway because he couldn't care less what the people think.   He seems to think he really is God and that we should all obey him.


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## francoHFW (Jun 30, 2012)

It's a tax penalty. Just get a doctor and take your affordable guaranteedt care, freeloader dupes.

7goal: A little more than 98 percent of state residents now have ...4.84.198.233/.../03/.../actually-romneycare-is-an-enormous-success/ - CachedFactCheck.org : 'RomneyCare' Facts and Falsehoods
Mar 25, 2011 ... 'RomneyCare' Facts and Falsehoods ... The state law was successful on one big


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## American_Jihad (Jul 2, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
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> > White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
> ...



Poodapoop, Let's see the list Ya black hole...


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 2, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
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> > American_Jihad said:
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IRA early withdrawal penalties
HSA early withdrawal penalties
Late payment penalties


Want me to keep going?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 2, 2012)

Clementine said:


> We know they lied to push an unconstitutional mandate through.



Unconstitutional? Watched the news lately?


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## Luddly Neddite (Jul 2, 2012)

And, etch a sketch put his foot in it by agreeing with President Obama that it is not a tax. He says its a "penalty". 

READ the scotus decision to learn why they chose to call it that. 

Or, just keep screeching and pulling your hair out in clumps. 

LOL


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 2, 2012)

Romney agrees with Obama that it's not a tax,

so if one is lying, so is the other.

Plus, 

Romney will definitely be lying if he approves campaign ads that call it a tax.


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## Claudette (Jul 2, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I just saw the first political ad calling obama a liar.  It is going to be very effective.  The obamatax is going to turn into a club to beat democrats over the head.  And, democrats will run around saying Roberts was wrong, it's not a tax.



As I said. Roberts gave Romney and the GOP a gift. 

Roberts also handed Barry a giant problem.


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 2, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I just saw the first political ad calling obama a liar.  It is going to be very effective.  The obamatax is going to turn into a club to beat democrats over the head.  And, democrats will run around saying Roberts was wrong, it's not a tax.



Except for this, which I already pointed out YESTERDAY before the Romney campaign confirmed it :

*Romney campaign, at odds with GOP, says mandate is not a tax *

*Posted by Rachel Weiner at 11:36 AM ET, 07/02/2012 TheWashingtonPost   

An adviser to former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney broke from the messaging of other Republicans Monday, arguing that the health-care mandate in the Affordable Care Act is not a tax.*

Romney adviser breaks from GOP message, says mandate is not a tax - The Washington Post

Game, set, match.


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## Stephanie (Jul 2, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > I just saw the first political ad calling obama a liar.  It is going to be very effective.  The obamatax is going to turn into a club to beat democrats over the head.  And, democrats will run around saying Roberts was wrong, it's not a tax.
> ...



what, you playing a game of tennis?
His advisor can say what ever he wants, so what


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 2, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > I just saw the first political ad calling obama a liar.  It is going to be very effective.  The obamatax is going to turn into a club to beat democrats over the head.  And, democrats will run around saying Roberts was wrong, it's not a tax.
> ...




In fact - Scalia also says its not a tax. The conservatives have to say its not a tax - OR - its Constitutional, can't have it both ways. So which is it, righties?


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## deepthunk (Jul 2, 2012)

I think a more important question would be whether or not Roberts was directly paid by lobbyists to change his stance. 

By the very definition of the word tax, the penalties for failure to comply with the &#8220;individual mandate&#8221; are not a tax; they are in fact a fine by the definition of the word fine. It is impossible for a chief justice of the United States to be unaware of this, that fact along with the unusual manner in which Roberts suddenly changed his stance and refused to listen to any contrary arguments is highly suggestive of political corruption, in other words, it reeks of bribery.

Any American that is in any way concerned with this decision or the corruption of Washington by well-funded corporations and special interests should immediately write to their senators and congressional representatives to demand an independent council immediately launch a full and complete investigation of Roberts and this Supreme Court decision. To do any less would be to sacrifice our freedom and the future of American democracy.

Your Senators contact information can be found on this page U.S. Senate: Senators Home

Congressional contact information can be obtained on this page Find Your Representative · House.gov


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 2, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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Romney said it you retarded cow.


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 2, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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And Alito, and Kennedy, and Clarence Thomas.

All of the cons' boys on the court except Roberts said it.

And Romney was already fucked because he said it wasn't  a tax when he imposed it in Massachusetts.


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## Dante (Jul 2, 2012)

GOP Presidential Candidate Agrees With President Obama on Penalty v Tax.




GOP Presidential Candidate DisAgrees With Rest of GOP


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## American_Jihad (Jul 2, 2012)

*McConnell: SCOTUS Clears The Way To Repeal Obamacare With 51 Votes*

7/1/12 by Sahil Kapur 


Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) argued Fox News Sunday that the Supreme Court opinion on the health care law opens the door for the Senate to repeal the individual mandate with 51 votes, as opposed to 60. 

Look, reconciliation is available because the Supreme Court has now declared it a tax, he said. They have unearthed the massive deception that was practiced by the president and the Democrats, constantly denying that it was a tax.  The chief justice has made it clear  its a tax. And as a tax it is eligible for reconciliation.

---

McConnell: SCOTUS Clears The Way To Repeal Obamacare With 51 Votes | TPM Livewire


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## American_Jihad (Jul 2, 2012)

*Roberts Hands a Poisoned Chalice to the President*

July 2, 2012 
By Christopher Chantrill


Read more: Articles: Roberts Hands a Poisoned Chalice to the President


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 3, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> *McConnell: SCOTUS Clears The Way To Repeal Obamacare With 51 Votes*
> 
> 7/1/12 by Sahil Kapur
> 
> ...





Your boy Mittens is going to LOSE the election You'll need 67 votes in the Senate and 290 in the House to repeal it against Obama's veto.


Good luck with that!


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 3, 2012)

deepthunk said:


> I think a more important question would be whether or not Roberts was directly paid by lobbyists to change his stance.



You're a  fucking moron.


> By the very definition of the word tax, the penalties for failure to comply with the individual mandate are not a tax; they are in fact a fine by the definition of the word fine.


 Shut the fuck up you ignorant twat, you didn't even read the Roberts opinion. All you're doing now is spewing pure off the cuff bullshit out the putrid asshole that you call a mouth.


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## Stephanie (Jul 3, 2012)

Vote Obama out folks, he has raised taxes on you in this Economy and with 8.2% unemployment..

We can't AFFORD him office another four years


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## Luddly Neddite (Jul 3, 2012)

Vanquish said:


> it was good enough logic for yer boy Mitt!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And, I'll bet that not one rw has read the scotus decision to learn why they chose to call it a tax. 

Even so, its such a small amount, the tax breaks Obama has given the working class more than makes up for it. 

OTOH, I have to say, the tax increases that Mittens/Ryan have planned for us will change all that.


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## Luddly Neddite (Jul 3, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> Vote Obama out folks, he has raised taxes on you in this Economy and with 8.2% unemployment..
> 
> We can't AFFORD him office another four years



Good gawd - here's another ignorant rw who does not seem to know that President Obama LOWERED her taxes. 

Where do these fools get their incorrect information?

Stephanie - would you mind posting a link to PROOF that your taxes were raised by President Obama?

Thanks ever so much.


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## Luddly Neddite (Jul 3, 2012)

deepthunk 





> I think a more important question would be whether or not Roberts was directly paid by lobbyists to change his stance.



And, what lobbyists would those be?

hmmmm?


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## Vanquish (Jul 3, 2012)

Anyone who thinks that justices of SCOTUS could get paid off and keep it successfully hidden are just wackjobs.


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## American_Jihad (Jul 4, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
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> > *McConnell: SCOTUS Clears The Way To Repeal Obamacare With 51 Votes*
> ...



OhPooPoo,
The only reason he got voted in last time is a lot of white people felt sorry for the boy and didn't know anything about him. Now that were past our first black president and he managed to fuck everything up around the planet were done with him. The only thing he's done right is kill the islamic beasts, I'll give him that...

Every time I see yo name it reminds me of that video from yo homeland, google "don't eat the poo poo"...lol


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
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Why would Romney want to repeal the individual mandate? He supports it.


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## American_Jihad (Jul 4, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> American_Jihad said:
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Poo Poo, Did you google "don't eat the poo poo" they are talking about you...


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 4, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


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Let me google that for you


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## American_Jihad (Jul 5, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


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How about the black hole from da left coast, let the cat out da bag...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3I-PVVowFY]Maxine Waters (D) Slip of the Tongue Reveals True Intentions (Socialism for America) - YouTube[/ame]


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 5, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


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How about her?


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## American_Jihad (Jul 6, 2012)

*White House continues to argue the Affordable Care Act is not a tax*

7/5/12 By Mike Delrio

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The Medical Itemized Deduction threshold is the next of the new taxes that will hit the middle class. Currently, if medical spending is greater than 7.5% of adjusted gross income, spending over that amount can be taken as a deduction on federal income taxes but Obamacare will increase this to 10% of adjusted gross income beginning in 2013. That means families will have to spend 30 percent more on medical expenses before being allowed to claim the deduction on their federal taxes.
---

White House continues to argue the Affordable Care Act is not a tax - Atlanta Political Buzz | Examiner.com


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 6, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> *White House continues to argue the Affordable Care Act is not a tax*
> 
> 7/5/12 By Mike Delrio
> 
> ...







> Then candidate Obama promised that those earning $250,000 or less a year would not face tax hikes of any kind while he was president



I less than 250k. I'm not facing a tax hike of any kind.


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## American_Jihad (Jul 6, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> American_Jihad said:
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> > *White House continues to argue the Affordable Care Act is not a tax*
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You poor SSOB...


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 7, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
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I'm good, thanks.


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## American_Jihad (May 12, 2016)

* Federal judge strikes down Obamacare payments *
2 / 24




USA TODAY
 Get the app 
Richard Wolf, Gregory Korte and Jayne O'Donnell
3 hrs ago

Republicans won the first round Thursday in a separation of powers battle against President Obama that once again focuses on his most prized achievement: Obamacare.

Federal district Judge Rosemary Collyer, a Republican appointee, ruled that the law does not provide for the funds insurers need to make health insurance policies under the program affordable.

While the law provides for tax credits, she said, it does not authorize an appropriation for slashing deductibles and copayments. Without those reductions from insurers, many consumers could not afford to buy insurance.

"Congress authorized reduced cost-sharing but did not appropriate monies for it," Collyer said in her 38-page ruling. "Congress is the only source for such an appropriation, and no public money can be spent without one."

...

Federal judge strikes down Obamacare payments


----------



## francoHFW (May 12, 2016)

Another partisan GOP twit judge...


----------



## Clementine (May 12, 2016)

American_Jihad said:


> * Federal judge strikes down Obamacare payments *
> 2 / 24
> 
> 
> ...




It's like no one had a clue what was in it or how it would affect people.   Obama has unilaterally changed things several times, which is problematic in itself.

It's a tax, it's not a tax.   Oh wait, it is a tax so the court could uphold it.   But it's not a tax so didn't need to pass the House.    You have to believe both lies to make it legal.

Congress lied to give themselves subsidies and they offered subsidies to people signing up.   They didn't care, and still don't care, whether what they do is legal or not.   

So many of the big insurance companies have already gotten out of Obamacare because they were going broke.   I think the left wanted them to go bankrupt.   This is just a huge, messed up stepping stone to single payer.   Designed to fail and that is the only part of it that is working.


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## American_Jihad (May 12, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Another partisan GOP twit judge...


*Typical Liberal Mindset... *


----------



## Clementine (May 12, 2016)

American_Jihad said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Another partisan GOP twit judge...
> ...



No kidding!    Even though they are aware that outright lies are being told and laws are being broken, the left bashes the people who point it out.


----------



## American_Jihad (May 12, 2016)

Clementine said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


It's the salunsky rules, I use rule 5 & 6 on them...


----------



## American_Jihad (May 12, 2016)

*The Clusterfuck...*
*



*
*Federal Judge Rules ObamaCare Subsidies Illegal*
May 12, 2016
Daniel Greenfield





It goes without saying that this is more of a moral victory than anything else. Even before Scalia's death, the Supreme Court had demonstrated quite clearly that it would not take it upon itself to stop ObamaCare. So any hope of using lawsuits to stop Obama's illegal program was shaky even before this. But the lawsuits themselves do continue to cast doubt on the legitimacy and credibility of ObamaCare.

And while it's easy to write off such a strategy, it makes insurers uncertain. And this is crucial here since this affects the insurers.

A federal judge on Thursday ruled the Obama administration has been improperly funding an Obamacare subsidy program, a huge win for the House of Representatives’ lawsuit against the White House.

...

Federal Judge Rules ObamaCare Subsidies Illegal


----------



## francoHFW (May 13, 2016)

loses on appeal of course. But more waste of our time...


----------



## Stephanie (May 13, 2016)

Obama can call it whatever the hell he want's. Its still unconstitutional. Obama is a professor of constitution law just like I'm the Queen of England.  he's a snake


----------



## Arianrhod (May 13, 2016)

Stephanie said:


> Obama can call it whatever the hell he want's. Its still unconstitutional. Obama is a professor of constitution law just like I'm the Queen of England.  he's a snake



But does he understand the correct use of apostrophes?


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## francoHFW (May 13, 2016)

I'll go with the appeal process of the hyperpartisan bought off GOP BS...


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 14, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> I'll go with the appeal process of the hyperpartisan bought off GOP BS...



Of course you will.

You'd never win straight up.

You need the courts in your pocket.  And you've got them.


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## francoHFW (May 15, 2016)

More tin foil for the hater dupe conspiracists!


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## Arianrhod (May 15, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > I'll go with the appeal process of the hyperpartisan bought off GOP BS...
> ...



Is that why there are at least three threads gloating about this?

Federal judge rules Obamacare is being funded unconstitutionally


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 15, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> More tin foil for the hater dupe conspiracists!



Blah blah blah blah.....

Glad to see you've added another word to your vocabulary.

That makes what ?  51 ?


----------



## Arianrhod (May 15, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > More tin foil for the hater dupe conspiracists!
> ...



"Vaporous."


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## francoHFW (May 16, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


742 verbal out of 800, Pubtroll know nothings. This a typical partisan RW judge,to be knocked down again. duh


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 16, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...



You bet....57 states too.......


----------



## Arianrhod (May 16, 2016)

The PPACA is still not going away, no matter how many times you lot click your ruby slippers.  Unless, of course, you vote for the Trumpster, in which case you'll end up with single payer.

Maybe.  Unless he changes his mind.  Again.  Or changes it back.  Again.  Or...


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## francoHFW (May 16, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...


You're so dumb you believe a man as intelligent as Obama didn't just misspeak?


----------



## Arianrhod (May 16, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> You're so dumb you believe a man as intelligent as Obama didn't just misspeak?



They spent eight years explaining away Dubya's mangling of English as a First Language, so they think this is payback.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 16, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



He's the king of misspeak.

"You can keep your doctor....."

But why don't you shove your little commentary and address the OP ?  For once.


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## Arianrhod (May 16, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...



OP was posted almost four years ago.  You lot haven't said anything original since.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 16, 2016)

[Crickets]


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## francoHFW (May 17, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


It's a penalty AND a tax, dumbass dupe. BS GOP propaganda relies on the ignorance and stupidity of the chumps.

See the dupes' love of scam GOP health care policies. Dems can never believe how ignorant the dupes are...500k bankruptcies a year used to be peolple who thought they had good insurance. NO MORE, dopes.


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## dblack (May 17, 2016)

The whole penalty vs tax thing is just typical Washington doublespeak. The more interest angle is the reasoning Roberts used to justify allowing a law that most people recognize as an abuse of state power. What Roberts saw was that, regardless of what we choose to call it, the mandate is no different in function and form than the multitude of tax 'incentives' that Congress uses to exert power. And that striking down the mandate would make all of those other 'mandates/tax-incentives' subject to the same challenge.

More concretely, if the Court were to recognize that it's wrong for government to force us to buy insurance from their corporate sponsors via the tax code, they'd be forced to acknowledge that it's also wrong to mandate that we take out home loans, or invest in 'green' energy, or have children, etc, etc....  It would unravel a critical pillar of Congressional power. THAT's what Roberts was unwilling to do.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 17, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Politifact skewers Ed Shultz on his claim costs are going down:

Ed Schultz: Obamacare is driving costs down

Got a link on bankruptcies going down ?

I can't find any recent data.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 17, 2016)

One of the first promises Paul Ryan made when elected Speaker back in October was that the GOP would be announcing their replacement for the PPACA...any...day...now...

Was this the same plan they've been about to announced since 2008 or a different one?  Maybe Sun Devil can tell us.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 19, 2016)

dblack said:


> The whole penalty vs tax thing is just typical Washington doublespeak. The more interest angle is the reasoning Roberts used to justify allowing a law that most people recognize as an abuse of state power. What Roberts saw was that, regardless of what we choose to call it, the mandate is no different in function and form than the multitude of tax 'incentives' that Congress uses to exert power. And that striking down the mandate would make all of those other 'mandates/tax-incentives' subject to the same challenge.
> 
> More concretely, if the Court were to recognize that it's wrong for government to force us to buy insurance from their corporate sponsors via the tax code, they'd be forced to acknowledge that it's also wrong to mandate that we take out home loans, or invest in 'green' energy, or have children, etc, etc....  It would unravel a critical pillar of Congressional power. THAT's what Roberts was unwilling to do.



Corporate sponsors   ???

I guess that would fit.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 19, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Still waiting that data on medical bankruptcies.


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## francoHFW (May 19, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


Google it, brainwashed functional moron.


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## Arianrhod (May 19, 2016)

^They keep asking that question, they've been presented with the data, then they dismiss them because they come from a source that isn't Breitbart or WeaselZippers.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 20, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



It's great to see that the "educated" left can always find a label for someone who calls them on their inability to provide support.

You fit right in with morons who make statements about things like "primary sources" but just can't seem to provide them when asked.

I did google it....and found nothing recent.

My parents used to teach me that people like you only revealed just how un-"educated" you really are.

Thanks for playing.


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


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## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

Here you go, dingbat.
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

3/4 had insurance.


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

“It’s not health insurance. It’s bankruptcy insurance.”

That would be Obama/GOP care.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 20, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Here you go, dingbat.
> Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com
> 
> 3/4 had insurance.



My original assertion stands.

That article is a historical record of what was before.

Where is you evidence that any of that has changed.

This is from your article:

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

62.1 had 5 grand in bills ?

5,000 ???  You can't buy a descent used car for that amound.

I would agree that the big kicker is when you can't work.

Medical or not, there are far to many people who pull the plug rather than live up to their obligations.

So, I'll be looking forward to that data that shows that it has gone down since Obamacare.


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

And the second link shows how it's gone down, and will go down more. You've heard of the annual cap on out of pocket cost of $6k, I'm sure, dupe? lol. 

When you lose your job, you are guaranteed care with Medicaid. Except in mindless red states. CHANGE THE GD CHANNEL.


----------



## 007 (May 20, 2016)

American_Jihad said:


> White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
> 6/29/12
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 007 (May 20, 2016)

It won't be around much longer anyway. It will either implode on it's own or be repealed, but most likely repealed before it breaks the economy...

More than half of Obamacare co-ops go belly up

Health Insurers Going Broke, Thanks to ObamaCare

ObamaCare Could Bankrupt America, AARP Makes Billions


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

007 said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> > White House claims ObamaCare fine a 'penalty,' despite court calling it a 'tax'​
> ...


A FINE IS A PENALTY duh lol...


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

007 said:


> It won't be around much longer anyway. It will either implode on it's own or be repealed, but most likely repealed before it breaks the economy...
> 
> More than half of Obamacare co-ops go belly up
> 
> ...


Only in dupe world...
But thanks for the bs propaganda spam...


----------



## 007 (May 20, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > It won't be around much longer anyway. It will either implode on it's own or be repealed, but most likely repealed before it breaks the economy...
> ...


Yup... sure thing... bubble head.


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

007 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > 007 said:
> ...


I love how AARP is mysteriously going to make billions. No explanation. lol. Hell. ANYTHING could happen, right, dupe? Beck is a genius  lol...


----------



## 007 (May 20, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


So... that's how you refute facts? Just puke out some idiot diatribe and your usual moronic "dupe" name calling?

Go soak your head back in that barrel of bull shit you live in, dumbass.


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

007 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > 007 said:
> ...


Facts my ass, dupe. You and your facts are a bad joke.


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

Op- A FINE is a PENALTY. Jeesh...


----------



## 007 (May 20, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...


Have fun on your planet, bubble head. You're no where near reality on this one.


----------



## francoHFW (May 20, 2016)

Try real news media sometime...ay caramba. ACA is working great. Blue state rates haven't changed- sorry about your old red state scam policies and your pals the a-hole insurance companies....

Care to explain Beck's idea that AARP is going to make billions, or do you just read headlines like most dupes?


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> And the second link shows how it's gone down, and will go down more. You've heard of the annual cap on out of pocket cost of $6k, I'm sure, dupe? lol.
> 
> When you lose your job, you are guaranteed care with Medicaid. Except in mindless red states. CHANGE THE GD CHANNEL.



You just posted a link where over half the folks had more that 5K  and you brag about a cost cap of 6K.

I think you are the one whose been watching the test pattern for way too long.....better change your brand of dope.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

Out-of-pocket maximum/limit - HealthCare.gov Glossary

Here you go...

20,000 surgury....

You pay 5,400.

Wow...that's some deal.

Better line up in bankruptcy court.


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Out-of-pocket maximum/limit - HealthCare.gov Glossary
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> ...


Helluva lot better than $280k like the"good old days"...


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Out-of-pocket maximum/limit - HealthCare.gov Glossary
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> ...


And anything else that year. But I'm glad a Foxdupe finally finally finds out the most important part of ACA, five years later. And you're an "interested, well informed" dupe. LOL


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > Out-of-pocket maximum/limit - HealthCare.gov Glossary
> ...



You have no clue as to what you are talking about.

Show me one surgery that cost 280,000 five years ago that now cost 20,000 because of Obamacare.

Besides being a fraud, you are liar.

And you never addressed the other issue I raised...typical.

All you can do is sputter and drool.......hater dup pub.....when you are the hater.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > Out-of-pocket maximum/limit - HealthCare.gov Glossary
> ...



Can you try to make some sense once in a while.


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


Change the channel and you might know something.


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


YOU STUPID A-HOLE. THE ANNUAL CAP IS $6k with ACA. Get cancer and it could EASILY cost hundreds of thousands, especially with the old scam GOP policies. You want a diagram?


----------



## Arianrhod (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Show me one surgery that cost 280,000 five years ago that now cost 20,000 because of Obamacare.



That would depend on the insurer.


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


IDIOT. ANNUAL CAP NOW. Another well informed Foxbot or WHATEVER. All the same bs, for dupes only. Jeeesh.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> IDIOT. ANNUAL CAP NOW. Another well informed Foxbot or WHATEVER. All the same bs, for dupes only. Jeeesh.



Gotta love, Sunny, though.  Goes to ->Healthcare.gov<- (to him, "the Enemy") to cite a stat post-PPACA to try to twist the data he's found into what costs were pre-PPACA.

I wonder if that particular syndrome is covered by his insurer?


----------



## dblack (May 21, 2016)

dblack said:


> The whole penalty vs tax thing is just typical Washington doublespeak. The more interesting angle is the reasoning Roberts used to justify allowing a law that most people recognize as an abuse of state power. What Roberts saw was that, regardless of what we choose to call it, the mandate is no different in function and form than the multitude of tax 'incentives' that Congress uses to exert power. And that striking down the mandate would make all of those other 'mandates/tax-incentives' subject to the same challenge.
> 
> More concretely, if the Court were to recognize that it's wrong for government to force us to buy insurance from their corporate sponsors via the tax code, they'd be forced to acknowledge that it's also wrong to mandate that we take out home loans, or invest in 'green' energy, or have children, etc, etc....  It would unravel a critical pillar of Congressional power. THAT's what Roberts was unwilling to do.


Well said. I totally agree.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 21, 2016)

dblack said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > The whole penalty vs tax thing is just typical Washington doublespeak. The more interesting angle is the reasoning Roberts used to justify allowing a law that most people recognize as an abuse of state power. What Roberts saw was that, regardless of what we choose to call it, the mandate is no different in function and form than the multitude of tax 'incentives' that Congress uses to exert power. And that striking down the mandate would make all of those other 'mandates/tax-incentives' subject to the same challenge.
> ...



Quoting yourself.  Always a sign of serious discussion.


----------



## dblack (May 21, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


Just scroll on by. This one is above your pay grade.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I'd still know you can't post two sentences that don't demean or use the word hater dup and somehow you think that lol is supposed to do something besides tell us that really have no clue.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I understand what you are claiming....

After you posted something that said over 60% of bankruptcies had medical bills below the annual cap.

So....we'll let others decide who the idiot is.

BTW: Don't watch Fox News.......


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Oh, now we've really unearthed the unhinged side of your pathetic existence.  

I quoted from the Obamacare site.  They used the example.

Your response while totally ignoring the point was to say better than 280K like before.

That was the cost of the surgery.....moron.  

Now, you either point out what surgery has come down that far in five years or shut up.

I understand Cancer...the example was surgery...a surgery....

And you claim to be educated...ROTF


----------



## Arianrhod (May 21, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



Says the poster who doesn't know the difference between a walk-in clinic and a full-service medical center.


----------



## dblack (May 21, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...


? 

Nevermind.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 21, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



Did you forget what you posted in the ObamaCare forum only a few minutes before you posted this?


----------



## dblack (May 21, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...



I have no idea what you're talking about. I think maybe you've confused me with another poster.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 21, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



You mean the one who posted this?

Obamacare's Personal Mandate


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


BEFORE ACA, over 500k bankruptcies a year were people WITH insurance. So BEFORE the ACA annual cap. See sig ferchrissake.

As I said Fox or WHATEVER- Rush, Savage, Fox, Levin, Heritage, GOP hypocrite/liars, Breitbart etc etc etc- It's ALL the same BS bought and paid for by greedy idiot GOP billionaires (Murdoch, Adelson, Kochs, Moons etc)  and dupes like you. A DISGRACE. The world is aghast. Trump won the nomination by parroting all that crap.


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


BS, brainwashed functional moron. It's all about the ANNUAL SPENDING by an individual, NOW capped at 6 thousand dollars. And you're a supposed well informed GOPer. You people are a joke. Change the channel. Try real news, dupe.


----------



## dblack (May 21, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...



No... you said something about the difference between walk-in vs full-service clinics. Anyway. You're off in troll land again.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



Don't listen to any of them.

You have data that medical bankruptcies are down...share it.

Otherwise, it is you who is doing nothing but making stuff up or parroting people like Ed Shultz.

You really are hateful.

I hope things get better for you before you become to bitter.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 21, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
> ...



I read your article and then I went to Healthcare.gov.  You have a better site...share it.

I am not a GOPer either.  You really are a stereotypical leftwinger.....you thing you know more than you do.

Capped at 6 thousand....great.....

File bankruptcy at 5K ...what good did your insurance do you ?

None.


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

You're an idiot. Who the hell goes bankrupt over 5K and loses everything? They have plans to pay it off. Duh. Let someone else educate you tomorrow. Very irritating. What are you, a nazi? lol


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Are you for single payer yet?


----------



## francoHFW (May 21, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > Sun Devil 92 said:
> ...


My second link I told you. Jeeebus. It's also common sense, with a new annual cap. Ay caramba.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 22, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



Yes.  Your post made it seem that you thought a walk-in clinic could administer a cancer regimen or stop an MI.  If you don't know that they can't, you don't understand the underlying problem.  When told this, you got all huffy.


----------



## dblack (May 22, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...



I wasn't huffy. Just weary of your trolling nonsense.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 22, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



Disabusing people of the notion that they can get cancer regimens or help with an acute MI at a walk-in clinic is a public service.


----------



## dblack (May 22, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
> ...



True. But derailing threads with equivocation, ad-hom attacks and persistent off-topic distraction is not.


----------



## Arianrhod (May 22, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



It is possible for a topic to diverge into subtopics.


----------



## francoHFW (May 22, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...


You avatar is hilariously ironic, dupe.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> You're an idiot. Who the hell goes bankrupt over 5K and loses everything? They have plans to pay it off. Duh. Let someone else educate you tomorrow. Very irritating. What are you, a nazi? lol



Did you read your own article......

62% had over 5,000 in medical bills.

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol............................you do that a lot.....you think you are funny ?

You certainly have never educated anyone in your life.


----------



## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > dblack said:
> ...



And yet you won't put her on ignore.

Franco is headed there.....


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## francoHFW (May 23, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > You're an idiot. Who the hell goes bankrupt over 5K and loses everything? They have plans to pay it off. Duh. Let someone else educate you tomorrow. Very irritating. What are you, a nazi? lol
> ...


BS. WTH are you talking about lol? Link? 

LOL. No, I think your ignorance and obtuseness is hilarious. And you are an interested and well informed GOPer. Ha ha.


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## francoHFW (May 23, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > You're an idiot. Who the hell goes bankrupt over 5K and loses everything? They have plans to pay it off. Duh. Let someone else educate you tomorrow. Very irritating. What are you, a nazi? lol
> ...


I'm a retired teacher. You appear to be unteachable. Glad you found out about the annual cap- THE most important part of ACA for most people, 5 years after it passed. Another well informed RWer...the more you watch/ read RW media, the less you know.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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Quoted from you own article.

But as someone from the left, you are to arrogant to actually engage.

You are beyond uninformed.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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I feel sorry for the dogs you attempted to "teach".

I've always known about the annual cap.  I just pointed out how meaningless it is to many people.

You can prove I watch RW media ?

No...you can't.

You are nothing but an arrogant sorry left leaning waste of oxygen.


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## Arianrhod (May 23, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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(A) I don't think he realizes how old this thread is
(B) He posts as if someone else - either an employer or his parents - was covering him until recently.  The exigencies that adults have had to deal with RE: health insurance are all new to him
(C) Math


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## francoHFW (May 23, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
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BS. and doesn't make any sense, either. lol


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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> > francoHFW said:
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You are beyond uninformed.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

dblack said:


> Arianrhod said:
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Not if it serves her needs or agenda.

From what I remember, she'll pass on the point of a post and focus on something stupid....like a missing period.

Just to get a word in edgewise....all the while saying "I'm using primary sources to prove my point".

She's a chump.

If I were still reading her drivel, I suspect it would look like she and Cranko are competing to see who string out the most stupid and ridiculous posts.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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Let's see the proof I watch RW TV.

Besides being a liar, you are a fraud.

Teacher....lol.


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## Arianrhod (May 23, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Sun Devil 92 said:
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Sun Devil 92 said:


> dblack said:
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> > Arianrhod said:
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Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
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Profoundly meaningful posts, well within the rules of the forum.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 23, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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> 
> > Out-of-pocket maximum/limit - HealthCare.gov Glossary
> ...



ADD much ?


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## francoHFW (May 24, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Sun Devil 92 said:
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Or you don't watch or read anything and just go round and round mindlessly on message boards...about the same thing.


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## Arianrhod (May 24, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> ADD much ?



Could be a differential diagnosis for someone who keeps asking the same question, getting the same answer, deciding he doesn't like it, and asking the question again.  Ask your doctor for more information.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 24, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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I read your link moron......

You, apparently, didn't bother to put that much effort out before you shot off your big lying mouth.


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## francoHFW (May 24, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
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"62% had over $5000 in debt"? WTF? link or any idea what you're talking about? And that's as much debt as they CAN HAVE with the annual cap you never heard of. What lies, LIAR/total waste of time? Read something, dupe.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 24, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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This is from your link on post 114:

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness.

It's that simple...moron.


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## Arianrhod (May 24, 2016)

Who wants to break it to him that that article is from 2009 - five years before full implementation of the PPACA?


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## francoHFW (May 24, 2016)

It's still not fully implemented.

They also say that 60% medically related bankruptcy rate was already going down. Now is WAY down.


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## francoHFW (May 24, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
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What is your point, and what is my lie? lol


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## Arianrhod (May 24, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> It's still not fully implemented.
> 
> They also say that 60% medically related bankruptcy rate was already going down. Now is WAY down.



Maybe if he expended less energy trying to get other posters to put me on Ignore he'd know what year it was.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 25, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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There have been several points made here:

1. You are to stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time.
2. You are really good about calling people names...but you never produce posts that support your blathering claims.
3. You said my claim was B.S. when I pulled it right out of your own link.
4. The bottom line is that your link says what it says about people going into bankruptcy over medical bills...when Obamacare plans have deductibles above that threshold.  You can't connect the dots.  I get that.


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## Arianrhod (May 25, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> 1. You are to stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time.
> 2. You are really good about calling people names...


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## saveliberty (May 25, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> It's still not fully implemented.
> 
> They also say that 60% medically related bankruptcy rate was already going down. Now is WAY down.



Really?

Medical Bills

The number one reason bankruptcy occurs is medical bills. It's understandable; it's an unexpected and sudden situation, and we assume health insurance can cover. The debt piles up as you struggle to pay monthly bills, and it gets so bad that bankruptcy is the only way out. One major injury and consider your entire savings, checking, retirement, home equity, and college funds depleted. Seventy-eight percent of medical bill bankruptcies come from people who have health insurance.

Top Causes For Bankruptcy Filing

And the number of people weighed down by medical debt is staggering. According to Lisa Kaess, an economist and the creator of Feminomics, which focuses on practical and policy issues relating to economic and financial themes for women, “Nearly two-thirds of the people that file for bankruptcy do so because of a health crisis. Sixty-two percent of those actually have health insurance. So unexpected health crises can be financially devastating.”

Top 5 Causes of Bankruptcy: Are You at Risk? - Healthplans.com


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## Arianrhod (May 25, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > It's still not fully implemented.
> ...



No one's disputing that medical bills are a major cause of bankruptcy (well, except maybe Sunny, but he doesn't even know what year this is).  The question is whether or not they're as egregious as they were prior to implementation of the PPACA.  In order to determine that, you'd have to tease out those who are still paying off debt incurred prior to 2014, but no one here is willing (or able?) to do that.


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## saveliberty (May 25, 2016)

Arianrhod said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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The 60% in 2013 was documented a few places, these numbers are higher.  It is possible people carried the debt from years past though.  However, many people are trying to control health insurance costs with high deductibles and then find out they can't pay the medical bills.


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## francoHFW (May 25, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> > It's still not fully implemented.
> ...


Not any more. Thanks Obama.


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## francoHFW (May 25, 2016)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> francoHFW said:
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AND? lol. Much fewer now, Thanks Obama. Most had a helluva lot MORE than $5k duh.


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## francoHFW (May 25, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> > saveliberty said:
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High deductibles and an annual cap, the way it was going before O-Care. Now people can AFFORD IT. And it's guaranteed.


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## francoHFW (May 25, 2016)

Will only get better with transparent competition and regulation on insurers. When Pubs and crony insurers allow.


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## dblack (May 25, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Will only get better with transparent competition and regulation on insurers. When Pubs and crony insurers allow.



You nailed the last part. With the additional power and security afforded them at our expense, via ACA, we will only ever get what "Pubs and crony insurers allow". That's what's so fucked up about it. It does the exact opposite of your fantasy. It elevates the power of politicians and their cronies. That's why it was passed.


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## francoHFW (May 25, 2016)

It's already working, dingbat rebel ignoramus.


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## francoHFW (May 25, 2016)

Who the hell do you vote for? You blame Dems for losing to a-hole Pubs, because of their liars and dupes? Brilliant.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 25, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> > francoHFW said:
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It must be great living denial.

Saves you the issue of understanding how the real world works.

Teacher ?  now that deserves an lol.


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## Sun Devil 92 (May 25, 2016)

francoHFW said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> > Arianrhod said:
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Can I laugh any harder.

Now people can AFFORD IT....that's rich.

In Latest Obamacare Fiasco, Most Low-Income Workers Can't Afford "Affordable Care Act" | Zero Hedge
I Can’t Afford My Obamacare Deductible. Now What?
Many Americans can't afford Obamacare: Aetna CEO

You are now on ignore.

You are a mindless left-wing moron who has no problem taking from others.

You are a good name caller for someone who has a 51 word vocabulary (that includes the word "pub"....)

But beyond that, you really are a non-contributor and I suspect those around you would see you the same way.

Big mouth.

No brain.


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