# So



## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Cavuto says GM is priced at $33 bucks per share. The Unions get the lion's portion and the American tax payer get squat. 


Fuck GM.


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## manu1959 (Nov 17, 2010)

so unionize so you can fuck and industry and get your bailout....


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

manu1959 said:


> so unionize so you can fuck and industry and get your bailout....



I don't think retired people have unions!


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

I would rather push my Toyotas than buy a Chevy or Chrysler product.....

I hope they both go under.

Look at well Ford is doing..... they turned down the mob-money Obama offered them.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


> Cavuto says GM is priced at $33 bucks per share. The Unions get the lion's portion and the American tax payer get squat.
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Would you rather the corporate fat cats get it?
How about the fact Union members are tax payers raising families too? 

You really need to think about who you want to protect.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

Do you have a problem with American workers Willow?


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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The American Tax payer bailed the union asses out. They should share. Without us there would be no them. Fuck GM.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


> Do you have a problem with American workers Willow?



Toyota employees Americans Luisser


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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They didn't bail out the unions, they bailed out GM. It isn't the unions fault that the executives at GM can't run a business. And without Unions, we have a failed middle class.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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Oh yeah? Would the unions be in business without the taxpayer bailout? Are you being purposefully stupid?


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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So, you trying to be like Allie now? What is the point of calling me Luisser? Do I change your name? NOPE

And Toyota employees would not be making the wages they do if it was not for the Unions.
Why don't you check out countries with no unions, and see how much their average worker gets paid.


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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If you honestly believe any of that $$$  got to the "workers" you are sadly mistaken.

It went to get Obama and his chronies elected... Those unions members only care about the here and now.... not what their/our kids and grandkids are going to be saddled with when the bill comes due.
Its unsustainable.... I know.... I was raised in a union family and ALWAYS told my dad it was a ponzie scheme.... He is enjoying a nice retirement, but what about the next generation?

I turned down a job in his local union... as a heavy equipment operator b/c I just didnt think unions were "really" ethical.

Call me stupid, but I put my $$$$ where my mouth is.... and it tastes really gross


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

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what you have with the unions is 800 thousand retired with pensions that are unsustainable because only 85,000 are working to pay them. tha'ts what you have. Unions ruined the auto industry in the US.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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Would GM be in business without the Union workers? Of course they could be, but they would be their workers crap wages, thus destroying the middle class even more.

It is good to know you are the side of corporations, and not the American worker.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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don't matter what your stupid unions make, if they cannot compete on the global market they get to be unemployed.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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I'm on the side of fairness. We the taxpayer bailed their sorry over entitled asses out because they could not compete. We should have a share. Fuck GM and fuck the unions.


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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That is a stupid arguement.... American workers get paid a very good wage here. The unions dont get them better pay... They scrape it off the top and pay off politicians with it.

There a ton of folks getting rich out there with NO THANKS to any union.
They do it themself.... I am comfortable in my job, and there is'nt a union in sight!


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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No, over inflated executive salaries ruined the auto industry, along with Reagan and his economic plan. How come union workers haven't destroyed the german market?
Why don't you check out how the CEO of Honda lives.
Like I said Willow, you are taking the side of executives who pay themselves 400 times what their employees make. Good job.
How about the fact they were still flying in private planes after they took a bailout.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

The Infidel said:


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Why don't you check out what factory workers got paid before unions. Unions are the reason why they make the amount they do.
Why is it that when more people belonged to Unions we had a stronger middle class, and a stronger economy?


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

What has happened since the Reagan years? Loss of factory jobs
When did the auto industry start to go down the drain? During the 80's. 
Who did Reagan go after? The Unions
See a pattern?


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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What I know is GM owes us 50 Billion dollars. Their stock is going to sell at $33 per share and we the taxpayer ain't getting shit for our money. You think that's fair? You izz DUmb. 


GM Stock Is Priced at $33 - WSJ.com


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


> What has happened since the Reagan years? Loss of factory jobs
> When did the auto industry start to go down the drain? During the 80's.
> Who did Reagan go after? The Unions
> See a pattern?



Toyota and Ford do quite nicely. With or without Reagan. Tia.


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## Intense (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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AARP can put a hit on anyone for the right price.  

I see Old People!!!


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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As I always tell my dad.... unions *had* a place in history.... yes, they did do some really good things....

*DECADES AGO.......*


They are'nt needed any longer.... at least not here in America. We have laws against slave labor

Jeez...... If ya dont like what someone is offering to pay ya.... walk! Go look elsewhere.... If someone is willing to dig a ditch for $8.00 an hour.... thats their choice.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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Ford wasn't doing well a few years ago. 
Ford workers belong to a union.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

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Watch the Frontline episode on BP, none of those workers would have been able to speak out if it wasn't for the fact they were protected by a union.
And in this market you can't afford to go elsewhere.


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


> What has happened since the Reagan years? Loss of factory jobs
> When did the auto industry start to go down the drain? During the 80's.
> *Who did Reagan go after?* The Unions
> See a pattern?



Jimmy Carter..... that s who!

He was saddled with the crappy politicians that were there before him.... after he left office America saw a boom in the economy, and Billy BJ Clinton rode the wave all the way to Lewinsky's mouth!


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

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yes I know, I have no beef with Ford. We didn't have to bail their asses out.


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

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BULLSHIT!

Plus... BP is British.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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Who makes the profit off selling those shares Willow? Who can pay back their bailout with those profits? Are you dumb?



> President Barack Obama will see the US Treasury's share in the firm shrink from nearly 61 percent to slightly over 40 percent overnight, while claiming back some of the 50 billion taxpayer dollars spent to save the company.





> "The purpose of the IPO is to begin to shift ownership of GM to the public from the three main shareholders: the US Treasury, the United Auto Workers union, and the Canadian government," he added in a client note



GM poised for world-beating share sale - Yahoo! News

Looks like your OP was a little misleading Willow, good job.


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## iamwhatiseem (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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That is patently false.
What you say was very true from 1920 till about 1960. The unions gave workers a decent pay check and benefits - and this improved the economy to some small degree also.
However after 1960, unions became corrupt and for the most part - unnecessary. Workers were already earning decent pay and benefits - but the unions had to have some reason to stay in existence so they continued to pound on wages and benefits until compensation truly outweighed the production performed by the employee. Then came lifelong glorious benefits that these companies can in no way support during a good economy, and when the economy turned south - total collapse under the weight of compensation costs.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

The Infidel said:


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That is weird, my friends dad, is in a US union and works for BP. He was also interviewed on Frontline, and spoke out against what they do in Alaska. I will have to tell him his interview is bullshit now.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


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GM has it made don't they? Fifty billion interest free dollars. God knows when it will all get paid back. Screw the American taxpayer.


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

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Maybe you should tell him to stop biting the mouth that feeds him.... Hell, why doesnt he put his money where his mouth is and quit BP and go to work for a company that actually cares for "mother earth"..... Oh... he likes that evil $$$$ right?



One more thing.... Im not here to "bag" on your dad.... I just think its chickenshit to "tattle" on your employer and expect to stay employed there.

Take a stand and quit.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

> The government should make about $13.6 billion when GM shares start trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The federal Treasury is unloading more than 400 million shares of GM, reducing its stake in the company from 61 percent to about 33 percent.





> GM will set aside 5 percent of its new stock for employees, retirees and car dealers to buy at the offering price.


GM says prices common shares at $33 each in IPO

Wow, Willow you should really check out your facts.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 17, 2010)

Government Motors will never see one red cent from me.

Ever.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

The Infidel said:


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He will probably be working for a new company soon. 
And he was speaking out against the fact BP has poor safety condition in Alaska, which injured almost killed one of his friends. Get a clue!


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Luissa said:


> > The government should make about $13.6 billion when GM shares start trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The federal Treasury is unloading more than 400 million shares of GM, reducing its stake in the company from 61 percent to about 33 percent.
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Which facts would those be Luisser?


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

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Now thats what I am talkin about.... 

again... if ya think they are doing bad things.... WALK away!


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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Haven't they already paid off a portion? Are they not due to pay back even more with the sells of these stocks? You should do a little more research next time.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

The Infidel said:


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He isn't walking away. 
That is all I can say.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

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How much interest are they paying?


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

You wanna know why he doesn't walk away? His union health insurance pays for his wife's high medical costs, and he needs the money to pay for the part they don't pay.


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## Luissa (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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I don't have to pay interest on my government college loans.


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## The Infidel (Nov 17, 2010)

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Yep..... with other loan money.

Go figure


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

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Leeches.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

Let's hope they stay solvent. American taxpayers won't swallow that shit a second time.


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## Paulie (Nov 17, 2010)

WillowTree said:


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Yeah you do, you have the AARP, and you've been fucking this country for 50 years.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

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Yeah? How so?


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## Paulie (Nov 17, 2010)

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They're one of the most powerful lobby groups in the country.  They've had their grubby little hands in everything from medicare to SS to Obamacare.

They were a major influence in Obamacare getting passed, and are probably one of the biggest reasons, if not THE biggest, that there will probably never be any meaningful changes to SS, especially privatization.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

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Well, they sell insurance. obie wan wants the insurance companies to be happy. And the people who fucked up SS is the congress. They took a solvent SS and stole all the money and spent it on other people. Just as they helped themselves to 960Billion dollars of medicare funds. You need to pay closer attention to the grubby greedy little critters in congress.


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## Paulie (Nov 17, 2010)

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Pay close attention here, Willow.  I'm going to divulge some information that apparently you are unaware of.  After you read this, allow it time to sink in, and and then move on about your life with this new found sacred knowledge with which I've provided you:


Congress works for the special interests.  The end.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2010)

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