# Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government



## Tom Paine 1949 (Nov 15, 2020)

_What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_

PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

_The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher._

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 15, 2020)

Right now they couldnt defend themselves if they had too. I think it would be a good thing and yes if something happened between China and USA I think it more than probable they would remain on the sidelines.


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## White 6 (Nov 15, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


I'll believe it when I see it, but yes they should.


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## blackhawk (Nov 15, 2020)

Go for it if Europe wants to take the lead in handling it's own security I have no problem with that. We have heard more than a few times America should not be the worlds policemen so if other nations want to handle their own security cool.


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## shockedcanadian (Nov 15, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...



I tend to agree with him.  I think Europe, like many allied nations, don't have the same trust or faith in the U.S to deal with China and other global threats.

For one, America has pulled more than their weight and other nations have to.  Second, when Trump is president, Europe and the world know China will be reigned in, when he isn't in power, citizens have to feel frightened.  Europe isn't saying it, but we all know, it's the usual threats to their security, China and Russia.  Especially China of late, who have surpassed the military might of any European power.

What if China and USA joined forces and interests at the expense of the rest of the world?  It might have sounded insane to think this 15 years ago, but look at the Big Tech, NBA-corporate kneelers.  There is an impulse to give in to China, so, what if these are the top advisers of presidents?

I just don't see many leaders past Trump that understand what's at stake.  Rubio understands, Nikki Haley.  Who knows how they would act if president though, who knows who they owe their campaign funding to?

This is what made Trump, although tough for them to deal with, they at least knew, when push came to shove, he didn't owe anyone but American Interests.

So yes, Europe should have had a military long ago.  Especially as they see Chinas rise and military might expanding.


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## Shelzin (Nov 15, 2020)

I agree... They should have their own standing military.   Just as the US should have it's own standing voting system.


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## MarathonMike (Nov 15, 2020)

That's a laugh, they don't even want to pay their NATO dues. But they are going to invest multi-billions of dollars to stand up a defense industry and their own army?


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## Viktor (Nov 15, 2020)

blackhawk said:


> Go for it if Europe wants to take the lead in handling it's own security I have no problem with that. We have heard more than a few times America should not be the worlds policemen so if other nations want to handle their own security cool.


AMEN. I'm one of those people who wants to take the United States out of the United Nations.
We have enough problems of our own and we already rescued Europe twice in the 20th century. The UN is nothing but a useless propaganda vehicle that our enemies use against us.
I have thought that we could do without NATO now that the Soviet Union is gone. NATO was made for one purpose-protect the West against Soviet expansion. The Soviets are gone.


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## cnm (Nov 16, 2020)

blackhawk said:


> Go for it if Europe wants to take the lead in handling it's own security I have no problem with that. We have heard more than a few times America should not be the worlds policemen so if other nations want to handle their own security cool.


Do you really think the US is securing France, for example?


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## cnm (Nov 16, 2020)

shockedcanadian said:


> Europe isn't saying it, but we all know, it's the usual threats to their security, China and Russia. Especially China of late, who have surpassed the military might of any European power.


Yeah yeah. I can see the first wave of junks sailing up the Seine right now.


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## cnm (Nov 16, 2020)

MarathonMike said:


> That's a laugh, they don't even want to pay their NATO dues. But they are going to invest multi-billions of dollars to stand up a defense industry and their own army?


Ffs. Their 'NATO dues' are about their own armies and defence industries.


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## Mac-7 (Nov 16, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


I feel the beginnings of a 10-nation confederacy with headquarters in Rome


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## theHawk (Nov 16, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


Sounds like the globalists in Europe want to cash in on that War profiteering that the Bush/Clinton/Hussein legacy built.


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## theHawk (Nov 16, 2020)

Shelzin said:


> I agree... They should have their own standing military.   Just as the US should have it's own standing voting system.


Every country in Europe already has its own army.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 16, 2020)

In 10 years both Germany and France will be Islamic Republics, arming them today is something only Obama would consider


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## ESay (Nov 16, 2020)

NATO is an outdated structure and cant fulfill its goal. Btw, what goal does it have, somebody knows? Let Western Europe take care for themselves. 

What is more useful is some copy of NATO comprised of East European states. As a natural barrier between the rest of Europe and Russia. 

But then again, this possible military union is a point of discussion because it is highly unlikely that these countries would meet their defence costs.

It will be interesting to see, how France and Germany will resolve the dispute between Turkey and Greece, without Anerican involvement.


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## verker (Nov 16, 2020)

The German army plan grow size from current 62,000+ to 78,000+ ... 

It's planned a trip to latest 2024 ...


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## cnm (Nov 16, 2020)

ESay said:


> What is more useful is some copy of NATO comprised of East European states. As a natural barrier between the rest of Europe and Russia.


You mean as the failure of US policy to ram NATO up against Russia's borders becomes unavoidably apparent?


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## ESay (Nov 16, 2020)

cnm said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > What is more useful is some copy of NATO comprised of East European states. As a natural barrier between the rest of Europe and Russia.
> ...


I mean that a military organization should have a common goal (or, more strictly speaking, a common enemy). Does NATO have one? If this organization is to deter Russia (the most obvious
goal), then Western Europe doesn't fit in it. Those countries are keen on developing trade and energy cooperation with Russia, and dont see it as enemy anymore. So, let them go out and let them deal with their defence, with the Turks in particular.


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## Shelzin (Nov 16, 2020)

theHawk said:


> Shelzin said:
> 
> 
> > I agree... They should have their own standing military.   Just as the US should have it's own standing voting system.
> ...


That basically could fight another county in Europe... And that's about it.


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## blackhawk (Nov 16, 2020)

cnm said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > Go for it if Europe wants to take the lead in handling it's own security I have no problem with that. We have heard more than a few times America should not be the worlds policemen so if other nations want to handle their own security cool.
> ...


I think the U.S. pays a shitload of money to help with the defense of Europe which includes France if they want to take the lead on that I'm all for it.


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## the other mike (Nov 16, 2020)

Title is _completely_ misleading.
What "new US government " ?


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> ...Right now they couldnt defend themselves if they had too. ...



We could. But it would always end with a mass-killing of millions, hundreds of millions or even billions of people. And this makes no sense.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

MarathonMike said:


> That's a laugh, they don't even want to pay their NATO dues. ...



What's a bullshit. Everyone pays the own army - and Germany pays the same money to the institution NATO as the USA is doing, I heard. Best is meanwhile really to do what Trump said in this context - but on totally other reasons: You are not able to defend what you hate. And the USA hates as well Germany as it hates Europe. So take your soldiers - all of them. Leave Germany. Bye bye. I don't like to have here in Germany an army full of idiots, who hate everyone, who is not an US-American.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> > That's a laugh, they don't even want to pay their NATO dues. ...
> ...


You fucking monkey. Welcomes every fucking monkey that hates us, our culture, religion, everything.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


They have learned that the US foreign policy is a constant and doesn´t change too much with a new President. In the past they even helped the US hurting them, in Libya, Syria, Ukraine, but maybe, at least the French had some kind of awakening. Now they need to outvote the German slaves that deny sovereignty.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> 
> > MarathonMike said:
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Good grief. And this says the extremist Nazi idiot, who once tried to convince everyone that he is a German.


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## harmonica (Nov 22, 2020)

...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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How many rapists and murderers do you want to take over the US bases once the troops left?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

harmonica said:


> ...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...


Read here:








						Ernst wirft US-Regierung "Mafia-Methoden" vor
					

Die US-Regierung möchte die deutsch-russische Ostsee-Pipeline Nord Stream 2 mit allen Mitteln verhindern. Und droht daran beteiligten europäischen Unternehmen offen mit Sanktionen. Was der Vorsitzende des Bundestags-Wirtschaftsausschusses, Klaus Ernst, mit Schutzgelderpressung gleichsetzt.




					www.n-tv.de


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## Tom Paine 1949 (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
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> 
> > ...Right now they couldnt defend themselves if they had too. ...
> ...


I agree with about nuclear war making “no sense.” Not sure who you mean by “We.” The French and British have their own nuclear weapons, but not the Germans at present.

By the way, the quote you are responding to comes not from me, but apparently from Manonthestreet  (comment #2), who in any case was clear he/she was talking about Europeans.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> 
> > Tom Paine 1949 said:
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When I said "we" here I thought about Germany.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> 
> > Bleipriester said:
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¿"?"? ... Okay - perhaps you are in reality an alien from a parallel universe. Who is able to know this?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> 
> > zaangalewa said:
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Sure, why not.


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## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...




Macron knows that biden is owned by the Russians and the Chinese, along with his entire party.....obama didn't stand up to Russia and didn't give Ukraine any help against Russian aggression........they pretend to hate Trump, but they know Trump was anti-Russian, while the democrats are either playing footsie with putin, or will just not lift a finger to stop him.


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## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2020)

theHawk said:


> Shelzin said:
> 
> 
> > I agree... They should have their own standing military.   Just as the US should have it's own standing voting system.
> ...




Actually, they have guys who wear uniforms.....they aren't even close to a real military.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

2aguy said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> ...


You can´t call Obama´s nazi coup Russian aggression. In fact, it is US aggression.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

harmonica said:


> ...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...



What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?


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## Crepitus (Nov 22, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


Sadly he is correct.  We can no longer be trusted.  The tRump *administration* has destroyed our credibility.  A hundred years of trust and cooperation thrown out by one rabid wannabe dictator.


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## Erinwltr (Nov 22, 2020)

Viktor said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > Go for it if Europe wants to take the lead in handling it's own security I have no problem with that. We have heard more than a few times America should not be the worlds policemen so if other nations want to handle their own security cool.
> ...


Fucking Russian Troll.


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## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2020)

Crepitus said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> ...




Boy, you really are stupid.  Trump was the only one Europe could trust, since the clintons and the democrats sold out to china and obama let Russia do whatever they hell they wanted...

How can you be so blind and stupid to actual reality?


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

2aguy said:


> ...Actually, they have guys who wear uniforms.....they aren't even close to a real military.



So the USA has guys, who don't wear uniforms, because they are close to real military?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > ...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
> ...


I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.


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## Crepitus (Nov 22, 2020)

2aguy said:


> Crepitus said:
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> 
> > Tom Paine 1949 said:
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Who sold you that line of bullshit and how many drugs did you have to take to believe it?


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

2aguy said:


> ... Trump was the only one Europe could trust ...



_Don't tell me it doesn't work. Torture works. Okay, folks?_
*Donald Trump*


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > harmonica said:
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Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> > zaangalewa said:
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lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.


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## harmonica (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > ...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
> ...


hahahahhah--DUH!!! they formed the EU to devalue the US dollar....


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## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2020)

Crepitus said:


> 2aguy said:
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> > Crepitus said:
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obama refused to give aid to Ukraine, and the clintons and the democrat party sold out to the Chinese in the 1990s....I watched it in real time a Chinese government bag men brought hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to the White House........and the clintons gave them access to our high tech weapon systems...


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## xyz (Nov 22, 2020)

The US is not the pillar of stability it once was. Unfortunately, I think the prospects of even a civil war in the US within the next two decades is not out of the question. I wish it was though.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > Bleipriester said:
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I am not god - otherwise you could be dead now, Nazi. Not sure whether you are alive at all, living undead.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

harmonica said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > harmonica said:
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Do you have any idea what you try to speak about? The USA devalues the US-dollar - this makes your debts cheaper. You get a billion and pay back [a little more than] a billion - but the spending power is different. You get more spending power than you pay back - what's somehow a kind of sophisticated form of slavery.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> 
> > zaangalewa said:
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You are not god, right. Just a little pesky do-gooder.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > Bleipriester said:
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What for heavens sake did you not understand?



> Just a little pesky do-gooder.



And you are a Nazi and who is today a Nazi is in my eyes much more dangerous than the most Nazis under Hitler had been, who often did not know on their own what was going on. You just simple have to open your eyes and inform yourselve - and even to do this you are much to lazy. To kill others with machine guns is much more easy, isn't it?


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## zaangalewa (Nov 22, 2020)

2aguy said:


> ... obama refused to give aid to Ukraine



What's wrong and the problem "Ukraine" was deascalatable - and hopefully still is deascalatable. How the Krim became a part of the Ukraine had been indeed a very stange action of the leading Soviet Nikita Khrushchev on economic reasons. And it is totally clear - always was clear - that Russia will not give up the home harbor of their black sea fleet. The problem was a problem for mosquitos and was artificially made to a problem for elephants.  (If you miss the word "deascalatable" in your language: I just simple introduced it now.)


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## Bleipriester (Nov 22, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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You are quick in your judgement and declared your own morals superior to those of the others which are Nazis. This is why you will be judged in your own religion. And you never helped any poor migrant who sits in his asylum housing surrounded by criminals that can never show up in their countries again.


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## ESay (Nov 23, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > ... obama refused to give aid to Ukraine
> ...


It shows you know nothing about Ukraine and why all the things happened in the first place. Basically, it was not about Crimea at all.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 23, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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Should it not be "had helped" instead to use only "helped" in this case?


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## zaangalewa (Nov 23, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



And about what was "it" - whatever "it" is in this context? The Slaws were born somewhere in this area in the 5th century. Both - as well Russians and Ukrainians - were called in Vienna about 200 years ago "Ruthenen" (an analogy in the English language would be "Ruthens" - "u" spoken like the "U" in Ukraine). 60% of the vocabulary of the Russians and Ukrainians is the same. I guess they know how to speak with each other without interpreter.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 23, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


Who knows what is appropriate in your special case.


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## xyz (Nov 26, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


Why couldn't he (or she given the avatar??) be some AfD type guy?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 26, 2020)

xyz said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


Do-gooders do not distinguish between right-wingers and nazis in Germany. Everyone right to themselves is a nazi. But I am neither. AfD is too "market-liberal" in my opinion.


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## xyz (Nov 26, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


Wouldn't that make you more national socialist then? Actually, I don't  think you're a Nazi, but you are pro-Russia.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 26, 2020)

xyz said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > xyz said:
> ...


Yes, it would. But I am not planing to gas people or rate their genetic value. And it is hard to explain Americans that the 3rd Reich had a market economy combined with socialist elements. That is what I also support. The society was more equal to the US than to communist countries. Even in 1945 you could go to a store and buy American LPs.
But that all is a thing of the past, way too much ideology and dictatorship. So I am actually a centrist.
And I am pro-Russia, if you like to call it like that. I am not against Russia, they are our big neighbor, sanity demands a good relationship. I strongly oppose any attempt to create an iron curtain. It is as costly for us as it is for them. Those who force us to decide between Russia and the USA, and it is not the Russians, should have no say in my country. We can all come together and improve our lives, reduce tensions and leave that medieval shit behind.

zaangalewa is just a moron, he denies his own people the right to an own country but demands an own country for Indians. That might be the core of his insane America-hatred.


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## xyz (Nov 26, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> Yes, it would. But I am not planing to gas people or rate their genetic value. And it is hard to explain Americans that the 3rd Reich had a market economy combined with socialist elements. That is what I also support. The society was more equal to the US than to communist countries. Even in 1945 you could go to a store and buy American LPs.
> But that all is a thing of the past, way too much ideology and dictatorship. So I am actually a centrist.


Those are some interesting points, it was better than in the Soviet Union, except unless you were Jewish. Not that Jews weren't at times discriminated against in the Soviet Union.

Could the Nazis exist without hatred of Jews? Probably not, as that's how they got to power, but it does bring up interesting questions and debates. 

But then again, their whole point was to make war and persecute political opponents as well. And the war brought misery after the economy improved. So not much better than the Soviet Union in the end. Goering did bring up an interesting point that they had no right to try him because the Soviet Union did the same things.

As for the socialism part, the US was probably just as socialist as Germany during WWII. But people associate the word with the Cold War.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> ... zaangalewa is just a moron ...



Sure, Nazi.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

xyz said:


> ... As for the socialism part, the US was probably just as socialist as Germany during WWII.



Germany was not "socialist" during world war 2. It was from 1933-1945 (12,000 years long) a ruthless Nazi tyranny.


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## Deplorable Yankee (Nov 27, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


This comes up every few years and they do nothing


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

xyz said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it would. But I am not planing to gas people or rate their genetic value. And it is hard to explain Americans that the 3rd Reich had a market economy combined with socialist elements. That is what I also support. The society was more equal to the US than to communist countries. Even in 1945 you could go to a store and buy American LPs.
> ...


Jews were barely a point in the struggle for power. It was the unstable political situation, the extreme bullying by the victorious powers and finally the great depression. Hitler was infected with anti-semitism by Henry Ford, his major backer during the 20´s. Ford wrote "The International Jew".


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > ... zaangalewa is just a moron ...
> ...


Yes.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> xyz said:
> 
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> > Bleipriester said:
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Jews were Germans like all others. Then came extremist idiots and destroyed Germany - also by massmurdering Jews.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 27, 2020)

cnm said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > What is more useful is some copy of NATO comprised of East European states. As a natural barrier between the rest of Europe and Russia.
> ...



I thought Trump worked for Russia...wft?  Did you not get the Talking points?


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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"Freiwild" is a rock band from Italy. The Tirolians decided on their own free will to be a part of Italy instead of Austria. So the German supernationalism of the band "Freiwild" is only absurde funny. And I know that the Tirolians in Austria are often racists against Germans from Germany. They - like all other Austrians - don't see in themselves Germans any longer.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> > xyz said:
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And today it is no longer the Jews, it is the "Nazis". It is them evil "Nazis" that disturb happy refugels exercising their culture on girls and women.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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Neither free will nor can you impose any other´s opinion on anyone.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > Bleipriester said:
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?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
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> > zaangalewa said:
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You don´t understand. We the "Nazis" are the new scapegoat.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > Bleipriester said:
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I saw now that the referendum "Tirol" in Italy never had happened. Instead of this the government of the USA, Austria and Italy decided a special solution after world war 2, which continued the nonsense decisions from 1924.

Nevertheless Austrians (Italians) who postulate a German super-nationalism are today a funny anachronism.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
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You Nazis are worth to die - that's all.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
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> > zaangalewa said:
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I actually wonder why this is "super-nationalism". How does normal nationalism look like, then. And what is patriotism, then?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
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It is going to be a full-scaled genocide, according to your definition of "Nazi".


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > Bleipriester said:
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I know that you are a criminal extremist. You don't have to tell me this again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again  ... and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again ...and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again ... how Nazis used the word "deutsch" until nearly no one understood this word any longer  - except some German patriots like I and others. And the Tirolians in Italy should just simple learn two languages and improve the relation between Germany and Italy.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 27, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



You are the Nazi.  You know much better what this means, than I do. What you said here in this forum to me since a very very long time shows enough criminal energy to bring you in Germany into a jail. U-n-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e what kind of trash and nonsense tries to dominate the politics of the beginning third millenium again, living undead.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
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So you have no answer for this. Of course, you don´t. You, a patriot? What Indian tribe to you belong to?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 27, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
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It is modern and human for you to import anyone, grant asylum anyone, ect, but one has just to read:

"Als in der vergangenen Woche die PKS 2018 wieder einen erhöhten Anteil der Ausländer (30,5 Prozent) und der Zuwanderer (8,6 Prozent) an den zu Straftaten (ohne ausländerrechtliche Delikte) ermittelten Tatverdächtigen ergab – Zuwanderer stellen rund zwei Prozent und Ausländer rund 13 Prozent der Bevölkerung –, verwies BKA-Chef Holger Münch auf statistische „Verzerrungseffekte“."








						BKA-Lagebild: Gewalt von Zuwanderern gegen Deutsche nimmt zu - WELT
					

Ein Lagebild des BKA zeigt, wie viel häufiger Deutsche Opfer einer schweren Straftat durch einen Zuwanderer werden, als dies umgekehrt der Fall ist. Flüchtlinge werden vor allem von anderen Ausländern angegriffen.




					www.welt.de
				












						Gewalttaten: Deutsche häufiger Opfer von Asylzuwanderern als umgekehrt - WELT
					

Das Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) versucht mit seinen Lagebildern, die Kriminalität von Schutz-suchenden Ausländern gesondert zu erfassen. 2019 fielen in der Deliktgruppe Mord und Totschlag „138 Deutsche einer Straftat zum Opfer“. Kriminologen haben eine Erklärung.




					www.welt.de
				




We need to get rid of them, period. You and those criminals are why normal migrants look suspect.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 28, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
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 How stupid are you, racist? All Germans love Red Indians - and I know from two of my fellow countrymen who became indeed Red Indians on their own. A great honor for them and a good choice of the Red Indians who gave them a real and/or psychological home.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 28, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
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Learn to understand German, realities and statistics. Start with the word "Verzerrungseffekte". And no one here needs an "Ausländer" - like you - who tells "Inländern" - like me - what we have to get rid of here or not. Nazis are in the center of the terrorists we all have to get rid of, Nazi. Totally independent in which country of the world such damned assholes live and agitate.  You are in the best position to kill a Nazi: change your self.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 28, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


What Indian did you become? Bläck Fööss?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 28, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


There is no such thing as dempgraphic Verzerrungseffekte. It is just the admission that the major part of the refugees are young males, not women and children, fanatic. That doesn´t explain anything, except for another failure.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 28, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
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Better you are not able to show that our are intentionally ignorant. What the police said was very clear in context of the possibility how to interpret their own data: To make the conclusions that Germans withuto migration background are less criminal than people, who grew up in other cultures or ethnicities, is nonsense - if someone takes a serios look at the background of this data. There are many effects why the police has more data about crimes from people with a migration background. Only one effect is it that in all societies in the world the group of young male adults are more criminal than all other groups of people.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 28, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


The numbers are indisputable. The differences between Germans and foreigners are too big to throw in funny effects. But that doesn´t mean that people from other countries are more criminal, it means we get their trash mostly.


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## anynameyouwish (Nov 28, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...




he is right

1/2 of americans are fascist pieces of garbage

and will continue to vote for tyrannical scumbags


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## zaangalewa (Nov 28, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



All crimes are always indisputable. Crimes hurt people. That's why we make statistics and dispute about how to fight crimes.



> The differences between Germans and foreigners are too big to throw in funny effects.



You are a foreigner and a criminal Nazi. You broke Germans laws and when I informed you about you attacked me and never stopped to do so.



> But that doesn´t mean that people from other countries are more criminal, it means we get their trash mostly.



You are a Nazi - an anachronism of a deadly devilish past - trashiest trash at all. You could know what had happened about 100 years ago in world war 1 - which had caused the Nazis in Germany - and world war 2 - which had wiped out the Nazis in Germany.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 28, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> You are a foreigner and a criminal Nazi. You broke Germans laws and when I informed you about you attacked me and never stopped to do so.


It is you who attack others and can´t stand the responses. Every time you call me Nazi, that is in insult, it would get you a personable fine, plus its discrimination, you get fined twice as high.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 28, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > You are a foreigner and a criminal Nazi. You broke Germans laws and when I informed you about you attacked me and never stopped to do so.
> ...



You are without any doubt a Nazi - you made this here in this forum totally clear. You are a terrorist - you propapate hate and violence on racist reasons. Your very strange moment is that you would become a victim of your own racism, if others would use your form to think for you. I am by the way on my own blond haired and blue eyed and a Jew in the definition of the Nazis. All racisms are trash. Tell me why Nazis prefered "homozygotism"  instead of "heterozygostism" in their breeding selection for human beigns. Aha - You don't know what are homozygous and heterozygous and what's bad or good in this context - but you are a racist and xenophobic. Typical attitude. Homozygot means in German "reinrassig" - a famous word the Nazis used continously - it means: "purity of breeding" (verbally: "purity of race") - what's not only, but also, a damned bad thing in context of human beings. It creates village fools and village idiots, Nazi-like ones. Don't be blind. There are much bigger problems on this planet than your idiocies. Don't force others to have to waste their time with you, because you are dangerous.


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## Bleipriester (Nov 29, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


So, the Nazis preferred what you call homozygotism and you prefer what you call heterozygostism. So you´re both racists as you prefer some kind of race or race mix. I don´t prefer any of the both. I prefer leaving the house without being harassed, be it by German Kanacks or foreign.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 29, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



Okay, Nazi- you are intelligent and you use this intelligence for nothing else than to ruin everyone's life including your own life - like Goebbels did do. Perhaps Pope Francis was right, when he said it makes not sense to speak with the devil. But on the other side I hate it, if someone is a forever lost loser. ... Okay - I have to accept that I am not able to help you. Keeps the danger: How many will you kill with and for your empty phrases?


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## Bleipriester (Nov 29, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


I don´t have phrases, not even empty ones.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 29, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


no comment


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## Bleipriester (Nov 30, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


You want phrases, ask your multiculti freaks, they have plenty of.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 30, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


no comment


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## xyz (Nov 30, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


I don't think there is much of a point to blame Hitler's thinking on one person as if he couldn't control his thoughts. But he was very much influenced by America's genocide of the Native Americans. 

He also thought Slavs were of less worth and had silly theories about pretty much all European ethnic groups. Plus he thought he was a better tactician than his generals.

But in general the German troops did not rape and pillage (except in the case of Jews) as much as the Soviet troops.

In about half of Europe the only real choice was between Nazis and Soviets.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 1, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



Could be good for you to start to learn German, although it exist no books for the German, which bläck Fööss is using. "De bläck Fööss" means just simple "the naked feet" and has nothing to do with the blackfoot nations. Nevertheless I'm convinced the members of this band love Red Indians, because all Germans love Red Indians.

By the way: Are you with anything right what you ever said - or is everything always only wrong, what you try to tell others and yourselve?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 1, 2020)

xyz said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > xyz said:
> ...



.... what was the choice between Belzebub and the devil. And exactly this made all situations during this time of history so damned dangerous for everyone. I often called Hitler and Stalin the right and left jawbone of the devil. They worked unexpectedly together to eat masses of people. The people, who fought against Stalin on very good reasons, had helped Hitler and his murderous regime - and the people, who fought against Hitler on very good reasons, had helped Stalin and his murderous regime. What to do right - what to do wrong in such times of history?

By the way: Heinrich Himmler - the boss of all German policemen and of the complete SS including all concentration and extermination camps - murdereded many Slaws because he called all slaws "a minor race" - on the other side his men murdered also blue eyed and blond haired Poles, stole their children and gave it to SS members to educate them as Nazis. Perhaps still today might some of their descendants now think, they always had been Germans, and they have not any idea from their murdered ancestors and their stolen past. And most people think Himmler murdered Jews on the same reason, "minor race", but he murdered Jews on another reason: He was convinced only Germans and Jews are a superior race and able to rule the world. So he tried to wipe out the Jews genetically and murdered all Jewish men, women, children and even all babies, who he was able to murder.
Indeed no one is able to see a big difference between Germans and Slaws - and Jews were anyway Germans like all others, before the Nazis came and had propagated their hateful nonsense.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 1, 2020)

xyz said:


> I don't think there is much of a point to blame Hitler's thinking on one person as if he couldn't control his thoughts. But he was very much influenced by America's genocide of the Native Americans.


It wasn´t about to blame someone but that all that Jew-stuff wasn´t much of a topic before Hitler took over.



xyz said:


> He also thought Slavs were of less worth and had silly theories about pretty much all European ethnic groups. Plus he thought he was a better tactician than his generals.


There were all kinds of racial grades applied by the Morons. Various for gypsies alone, for example.
Maybe he was a good tactician or not, it doesn´t matter. The head of the German intelligence was a mole.




xyz said:


> But in general the German troops did not rape and pillage (except in the case of Jews) as much as the Soviet troops.


The German troops had even a surprisingly low crime rate. Armed forces not linked to the troops, like the SD and the SS, took over after the Wehrmacht moved forward. 




xyz said:


> In about half of Europe the only real choice was between Nazis and Soviets.


The political powers between Russia and Germany disappeared.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 1, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Could be good for you to start to learn German, although it exist no books for the German, which bläck Fööss is using. "De bläck Fööss" means just simple "the naked feet" and has nothing to do with the blackfoot nations. Nevertheless I'm convinced the members of this band love Red Indians, because all Germans love Red Indians.


I don´t even know what Red Indians are and I doubt you do. When you tell me your friends have turned into "Red Indians" then you are either in a mad house or in a multiculti concentration camp.




zaangalewa said:


> By the way: Are you with anything right what you ever said - or is everything always only wrong, what you try to tell others and yourselve?


You have stupid questions...


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## zaangalewa (Dec 2, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Could be good for you to start to learn German, although it exist no books for the German, which bläck Fööss is using. "De bläck Fööss" means just simple "the naked feet" and has nothing to do with the blackfoot nations. Nevertheless I'm convinced the members of this band love Red Indians, because all Germans love Red Indians.
> ...



All Germans love Red Indians - and many other cultures. And all Germans love also the cultures of the past. That's the way it was and that's the way it is. You are just simple not a German, anti-German, otherwise you would know such simple things.



> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > By the way: Are you with anything right what you ever said - or is everything always only wrong, what you try to tell others and yourselve?
> ...



Everyone knows that a rhetorical question is no question - what let me ask again: _"Are you with anything right what you ever said - or is everything always only wrong, what you try to tell others and yourselve?"


_


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## Bleipriester (Dec 2, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> All Germans love Red Indians - and many other cultures. And all Germans love also the cultures of the past. That's the way it was and that's the way it is. You are just simple not a German, anti-German, otherwise you would know such simple things.


Making up shit here is not a good point. And you are very likely romanticizing the rough and hard life of the Indians and other native tribes.




zaangalewa said:


> Everyone knows that a rhetorical question is no question - what let me ask again: _"Are you with anything right what you ever said - or is everything always only wrong, what you try to tell others and yourselve?"_


Again, this is a stupid question. I am neither always right nor always wrong. The question demonstrates your black and white thinking, though.


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## anynameyouwish (Dec 2, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...




so you want to be friends with russia

a country that attacks us in various ways
a bully to its neighbors
a country that regularly tries to instigate trouble with our military
a country that, every day, mocks and ridicules us in their media
a country that assassinates people

but you do not to be friends with liberal americans because we accept gay rights, want pot legalized and do not want the bible used as law of the land....

you make me sick


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## Bleipriester (Dec 2, 2020)

anynameyouwish said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > xyz said:
> ...


Don´t talk like an idiot. Imposing your view on Russia on me and then conclude wired stuff imposing your lib vs con stuff on me too, that makes me sick.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 2, 2020)

anynameyouwish said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > xyz said:
> ...


They are Europeans. They don't want freedom, because freedom means responsibility. They really need jackboots smashing their faces - does not matter whose - Stalin's, Hitler's, Napoleon's, Putin's or even Macron's.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 2, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


Your freedom starts at 4:30:


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## zaangalewa (Dec 3, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. Why got Donald Trump more than only one vote? Because the USA doesn't like to be responsible any longer, isn't it? So why hates "the USA" freedom?



> They really need jackboots smashing their faces - does not matter whose - Stalin's, Hitler's, Napoleon's, Putin's or even Macron's.



Don't forget Cesar and Alexander. Alexander, the drunkard, and Cesar, the loser, are by the way some of the most admired mass murderers of history - asides Ghengis Khan, Mao Tse Dong and many others.


----------



## ESay (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > anynameyouwish said:
> ...


It seems they tried to block the road.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > All Germans love Red Indians - and many other cultures. And all Germans love also the cultures of the past. That's the way it was and that's the way it is. You are just simple not a German, anti-German, otherwise you would know such simple things.
> ...



You was always only wrong with everything what you said and what I read. But perhaps some of your lies could be true. But would you be able to know this?


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## Bleipriester (Dec 3, 2020)

ESay said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Silver Cat said:
> ...


It doesn´t matter. It is just the same, Russia, Belarus, Germany, USA.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 3, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


Your bs is not believed. Facts are simply stronger than your bs.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



This strange being of which and to which you speak here is somehow really fascinating. What is this? But I don't have to know everything. Even my curiosity ends sometimes.



> Facts are simply stronger than your bs.



Sure you are a fact. But whether you are stronger or weaker than me is totally unimportant for me. I don't live in your world. And I am convinced - and you convince me again and again and again and ... : Who believes you or in you is lost! Even in case it seems not to be wrong, what you say sometimes.  Leave your wrong way - that's your only chance. And don't ask me what's the right way for you. I don't know.


_Im Woid is so staad
Alle Weg san verwaht
Alle Weg san verschniebn
Is koa Steigerl net bliebn

Hörst D'as z'weitdest im Woid
Wann da Schnee oba foit
Wann se 's Asterl o'biagt
Wann a Vogerl auffliagt

Aber heit kunnts scho sei
Es waar no moi so fei
Es waar no moi so staad
Dass se gar nix riahrn daat

Kimmt de Heilige Nacht
Und da Woid is aufgwacht
Schaun de Hosn und Reh
Schaun de Hirsch iban Schnee

Ham se neamad ned g'fragt
Hot's ean' nemad ned g'sagt
und se kennan's doch woi'
D'Muatta Gottes im Woid. _


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## Bleipriester (Dec 3, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


You are a funny monkey. Maybe you get a job in a zoo.


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## Meathead (Dec 3, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


The only way to have an effective Euro defense force is rearming Germany, especially without the UK.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 3, 2020)

Meathead said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> ...


Germany cannot provide enough soldiers. Unless you create 100 Christopher Street Divisions, the arms would be pretty lonely.


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## Meathead (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Paine 1949 said:
> ...


What? Germany is a country of 90 million and the financial ability to fully militarize. Without Germany, France and Greece can probably take on Turkey but no other potential threat.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 3, 2020)

Meathead said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...


They have educated their youth to be softies and fairies, not soldiers. Arm them and send them to the front lines, they will be useless.


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## Meathead (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


You're fighting the world wars of the last century.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 3, 2020)

Meathead said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...


And?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


Sure, racist, atheistic one.


> Maybe you get a job in a zoo.


Zoo? ... Hmm ... Who knows. I never was sure when Noah made/makes/will make his ark.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



And what is the difference to world war 1+2? All German soldiers in both wars were not only useless - they had been even counterproductive.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 3, 2020)

Did you, Krauts, read the answer of the German "Government" on the request of your Parliament? 


			https://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/19/244/1924493.pdf
		


Do you still believe, that those clowns can make a new "Aktion Konserve" even for their own unassuming audience?


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## ESay (Dec 3, 2020)

Bleipriester said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


It is just ridiculous to compare these countries basing on demonstrations. They are too different in cultural background, mentality, political establishment etc.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 4, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> Did you, Krauts,



Do you know that always when an US-American is using this expression, then this is only showing the very deep problems of the mentality of the US-people?



> read the answer of the German "Government" on the request of your Parliament?
> 
> 
> https://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/19/244/1924493.pdf
> ...



Whatever someone from the AfD - a political pseudo-party full of Nazis and useful idiots of Nazis - "asks" the German government is totally unimportant for me.


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## bendog (Dec 4, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


As your link discussed, they have a multiplicity of weapons that makes supply impossible.  It would be a long-term project.  And while I don't see it in the link, the EU would still lack much of a nuclear deterrent, which would leave them open not just to black mail, but some tactical disadvantage.  

But having a smaller US conventional force in Europe would be to everyone's advantage probably … except maybe the Baltics.  Although any European force will have to heavily rely upon the Poles.  I'm old enough that Germany still scares me.


----------



## Invisibleflash (Dec 4, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...



Go ahead. America can't foot the bill for the world. And with China Joe and Comi Kamila who knows what China will demand.


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## ESay (Dec 4, 2020)

bendog said:


> Although any European force will have to heavily rely upon the Poles. I'm old enough that Germany still scares m


The Poles? Why on them?


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## HenryBHough (Dec 4, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...



Velcome to der Fourth Reich!


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## Silver Cat (Dec 5, 2020)

ESay said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Although any European force will have to heavily rely upon the Poles. I'm old enough that Germany still scares m
> ...


Because the Poles are the best of the worst. 
You know:


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## ESay (Dec 5, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


If that is about Eastern Europe, then may be. But we are talking about all-European army.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 5, 2020)

ESay said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...


Poles are best, even if we are talking about the whole Europe. The Froggies and the Krauts don't want to fight.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

bendog said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> ...



We scare you? Germany never had done anything bad to the USA - Never in history! You had totally destroyed Germany in two world wars without any reason to have to do so - together with the Czar and the Soviets. You sold a big part of Europe to the Soviets after World War 2  and you made Germany to a little unimportant national state with an outdying population. Perhaps you are scared about yourselve.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > Silver Cat said:
> ...


The Poles are together with the Hungarians and Slowenia on the tyrannic way into the next dictatorship.


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## ESay (Dec 5, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > Silver Cat said:
> ...


Let the Poles begin support themselves without the Krauts and Froggies' money at first. And after that we'll see.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

ESay said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...


Says the blind to the blind?


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## ESay (Dec 5, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > Silver Cat said:
> ...


Are you going to be our guide?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...


We will see, whoever "we" is. A lack of arrogance and aggressions is for sure nothing what's typical for the US-American culture.


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## ESay (Dec 5, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


I dont want to disappoint you, but I have nothing to do with the US-American culture.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...


So who is "we" in your case?


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## MaryAnne11 (Dec 5, 2020)

Manonthestreet said:


> Right now they couldnt defend themselves if they had too. I think it would be a good thing and yes if something happened between China and USA I think it more than probable they would remain on the sidelines.


Suits me fine. The Marshall Plan has long out lived it’s time. But that does not mean I agree with Trump. Obama was already forcing them to pay their share.


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## ESay (Dec 5, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


'We' is myself and the poster I replied to in particular, and all who are interested in European affairs in general.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

MaryAnne11 said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> > Right now they couldnt defend themselves if they had too. I think it would be a good thing and yes if something happened between China and USA I think it more than probable they would remain on the sidelines.
> ...



No one pays anyone's share. Everyone is paying the own army - that's all. We agreed once with Barack Obama to pay more money for our own army after 2024 - what is without any effect for the costs of the USA for their own army - but this is not relevant any longer. One reason for this is the anti-German politics of the USA under Donald Trump - and the other reason are the costs in case of the current pandemic. And anyway nearly no German likes to be a soldier.


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## Flash (Dec 5, 2020)

I don't why the Euros would say something like that.

With the Democrats in charge of the US everybody in the world and their little brown dog will be put on welfare so  why bother paying for your own stuff when the Democrats will give it to you for free?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...


Except the people from Germany and the USA, I guess.


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## MaryAnne11 (Dec 5, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> MaryAnne11 said:
> 
> 
> > Manonthestreet said:
> ...


: As one who is half German and whose Father fought Germans many Americans have strong feelings I understand. We had a great relationship with Germany and most of Europe before Trump. but it is time for each Country to support their own defense. Europe may need to band together to do that. I am all for it.


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## MaryAnne11 (Dec 5, 2020)

Flash said:


> I don't why the Euros would say something like that.
> 
> With the Democrats in charge of the US everybody in the world and their little brown dog will be put on welfare so  why bother paying for your own stuff when the Democrats will give it to you for free?


Bull Shit! Enough of the fear mongering! He is leaving soon, maybe the Country can get back to halfway normal.


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## ESay (Dec 5, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


I see no ground for such guessing.


----------



## Flash (Dec 5, 2020)

MaryAnne11 said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > I don't why the Euros would say something like that.
> ...



You are confused.

What you stupid Moon Bats call normal is the US giving away the store all the foreign shitheads.

It will be even worse knowing that Biden is owned by the Chinese.  Hear that sucking noise?  That is the sound of jobs and technology being sucked in China.  Just like when we had during the disasterous filthy ass Obama/Biden administration.    Obama's Muslim buddies will be after their share.  Biden will probably send the sonofabitches more barrels of cash just like Obama did.  Despicable, isn't it?

Then you have that dimwit Kerry who will be using the AGW scam as a way to sap American money to being used  for stupid "Environmental Justice" redistribution of wealth.

Anybody that voted for Biden is an idiot.  A Useful idiot.


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## MaryAnne11 (Dec 5, 2020)

Flash said:


> MaryAnne11 said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


We did not get any jobs returned under Trump before the pandemic either.


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## MaryAnne11 (Dec 5, 2020)

Flash said:


> MaryAnne11 said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


If all you have is repeated Trump lies that does not say much!

Are you one of those dupes still sending him money to pad his pockets when he leaves? The scam is now up to $207. More gullible people out there while Trump makes fun of the rubes.









						Trump is making millions off being a loser
					

Experts say Trump could even use some of the money he's raising to fund his recount efforts to pay himself a salary later.




					americanindependent.com


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

MaryAnne11 said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > MaryAnne11 said:
> ...



We first of all had to have the wish to defend anything, before we like to defend it. So what to defend ¿why at all defence? is perhaps the first question - and the second question is how to do this. With nukes against nukes? What a bullshit!


_Von drauss’ vom Walde komm ich her; Ich muss euch sagen, es weihnachtet sehr! Allüberall auf den Tannenspitzen Sah ich goldene Lichtlein sitzen; Und droben aus dem Himmelstor Sah mit grossen Augen das Christkind hervor, Und wie ich so strolcht’ durch den finstern Tann, Da rief’s mich mit heller Stimme an:

„Knecht Ruprecht“, rief es, "alter Gesell, Hebe die Beine und spute dich schnell! Die Kerzen fangen zu brennen an, Das Himmelstor ist aufgetan, Alt’ und Junge sollen nun Von der Jagd des Lebens einmal ruhn; Und morgen flieg’ ich hinab zur Erden, Denn es soll wieder Weihnachten werden! 

Ich sprach: „O lieber Herr Christ, Meine Reise fast zu Ende ist; Ich soll nur noch in diese Stadt, Wo’s eitel gute Kinder hat.“ -
„Hast denn das Säcklein auch bei dir?“ 
Ich sprach: „Das Säcklein das ist hier: Denn Äpfel, Nuss und Mandelkern Essen fromme Kinder gern.“ - 
„Hast denn die Rute auch bei dir?“ 
Ich sprach: „Die Rute, die ist hier: Doch für die Kinder nur, die schlechten, Die trifft sie auf den Teil den rechten.“ 
Christkindlein sprach:„So ist es recht; So geh mit Gott, mein treuer Knecht!“ 

Von drauss’ vom Walde komm ich her; Ich muss euch sagen, es weihnachtet sehr! Nun sprecht, wie ich’s hier innen find’! Sind’s gute Kind’, sind’s böse Kind’? 







_


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## zaangalewa (Dec 5, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...


What has this, what you say, to do with the USA, "Krautland" and the "empire of the frog eaters"? What is your own interest?


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## ESay (Dec 6, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


Interest in what? In European matters? I live here and naturally I am interested in the things which are going on here.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 6, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...



What is your relation to the USA? Why should the USA send soldiers to France, Germany, Poland or any other European country?


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## ESay (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


I have no relation. Except that I am interested in their system of government, law etc.

The US is the only country of the Western world which can really confront China and Russia, if the need would arise.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...



Why do you like that the USA confronts (¿with what?) Russia and/or China?


----------



## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > Did you, Krauts,
> ...


It is not about what the opposition asked. It's about how the government answered.  "We don't know" and "We are not sure" - are not very inspiring statements, aren't they?


----------



## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...


You don't like democracy of the "Old America"? Well, let's see would you like tyranny of the "New Europe"?


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## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


Do you want to be "Nerus tuporylaya" in Pax Rusica or "hànsī guizi" in Pax Sinica?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Silver Cat said:
> ...



I don't know what's your problem and I'm not sure whether any form of "inspiring statement" makes any sense in discussions with enemies of the German constitution.


----------



## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Silver Cat said:
> ...



I never heard the "Old USA" - whatever this is in case of this very young country - was ever a kind of right wing bolshewistic dictatorship with a kind of right wing corrupt oligarchs, who betray their own people and don't respect any justice. And specially I never heard the USA lives from the money of others, whom they attack continously to get away from the own crimes.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay said:
> ...



Uh? ... I did not ask you ... I liked to get an answer from ESay - and I don't have any idea what you speak about here. What's your own nationality? What do you have to do with the USA?


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## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


He (and any other European) should be happy that the USA confront Russia and China, because Americans allow you to live. If Russia or China wins - you'll have serious problems.


----------



## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


First, the USA lives from the resources of the whole world controlled by discriminating economical system, which allows unequal exchange - "real resources to virtual money". Or " if you don't want to trade with us on our terms- we'll make you problems or even bomb you".
Second - you, Europeans, don't understand conception of freedom. You need dictatorship - Putin's, Macron's or even Duda's. It's your corrupted nature. All freedom you have - was given you by Americans.


----------



## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


I say, that you can't fight Russians because your current "government" can't make even simple provocation.


----------



## ESay (Dec 7, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...


It is not about what I like or dislike. It is about how the things work in our world. 'Big' countries are almost always rivalries with their spheres of influence. And I definitely dont want to live in the spheres of China or Russia.


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## bendog (Dec 7, 2020)

ESay said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Although any European force will have to heavily rely upon the Poles. I'm old enough that Germany still scares m
> ...


Because unlike Germany they have a functional military.  In terms of "size" Russia is not that much of a conventional threat.  But unlike Europe as a whole, they have cohesive weapons and efficient supply, and at least their more elite units are motivated and trained.  Which is why Europe still needs US troops.  But there's no reason the Germans cannot be as trained and motivated as they were in the 70s to 80s.

A European conventional force should be achievable, but it is a multi-year goal.  Given the past century, I'd hope the US keeps providing some component of it.  Europe is a trading partner.  And Russia remains a nuclear power.  Wasn't it Merlke who called them a gas station with nuclear weapons or something like that?


----------



## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

Funny article. 








						In Demut für Frieden und Europa
					

Beitrag von Außenminister Heiko Maas für die Medien der Herholz-Gruppe anlässlich des 50. Jahrestages des Kniefalls von Bundeskanzler Willy Brandt im ehemaligen Warschauer Ghetto




					www.auswaertiges-amt.de
				




But there is one important statement:
Wir leben heute in einem Europa, für das Willy Brandt die Fundamente legte. Mit der Europäischen Union, Demokratie, Wohlstand, Frieden. Auf sein Werk bauen wir mit einer neuen europäischen Ostpolitik auf. Anders als Brandt müssen wir heute nicht mehr den Umweg über Moskau gehen, um mit unseren östlichen Nachbarn zu sprechen. Viele Partner in Ost- und Mitteleuropa sehen Russland heute sehr kritisch – und deutsche Außenpolitik muss die Ängste unserer Nachbarn ernst nehmen. Neben Angebotes des Dialogs sind daher klare deutsche Positionen gegenüber Moskau wichtig, um Vertrauen in Osteuropa zu erhalten. Die weitere Aussöhnung mit unseren östlichen Nachbarn – besonders Polen – bleibt unsere große Aufgabe. Dazu verpflichtet uns das Erbe Willy Brandts. Und dabei sollten wir uns von Mut und Demut leiten lassen – so wie Brandt vor fünfzig Jahren am Denkmal des Warschauer Ghettos.
----------
Today we live in a Europe for which Willy Brandt laid the foundations. With the European Union, democracy, prosperity, peace. We are building on his work with a new European Ostpolitik. Unlike Brandt, today we no longer have to take the detour via Moscow to talk to our eastern neighbours. Many partners in eastern and Central Europe view Russia very critically today - and German foreign policy must take the fears of our neighbours seriously. In addition to the offer of dialogue, clear German positions towards Moscow are therefore important in order to maintain trust in eastern Europe. Further reconciliation with our eastern neighbours – especially Poland – remains our great task. The legacy of Willy Brandt obliges us to do so. And we should be guided by courage and humility – as Brandt did fifty years ago at the Warsaw Ghetto monument.
-----------------
Another confirmation of the strategic alliance with Poland, and continue of "Drang nach Osten" politic.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 7, 2020)

bendog said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


They are our "partners" only when they are weak. Strong Europe will be our enemy. That why we should not allow them to become "independent".


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## xyz (Dec 7, 2020)

bendog said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> ...


France has nuclear weapons, they can hit major Russian cities.

Why would troops in the Baltics be bad? Seems like a good deterrent.


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## Tom Paine 1949 (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> They are our "partners" only when they are weak. Strong Europe will be our enemy. That why we should not allow them to become "independent".



The U.S. strives for absolute global pre-eminence, for “full-spectrum dominance” in military, but also economic terms. This is an absolutely impossible goal, though for a short time after the collapse of the USSR many Western & American political theorists felt it was well within reach.

The U.S. can try, but in the end it will not succeed, in determining who (or which alliances of nations) are “to become independent.” In truth, no country can be economically “independent” in the modern world. Nor should any country seek to be. “Military supremacy” in the age of nuclear weapons (and potential cyber- and biological and ecological threats) is becoming even more a phantasm. In many ways it has drained the U.S. economy and distorted U.S. priorities and values. Time to give up “full-spectrum dominance” and encourage others to participate in peace-keeping missions all over the world. To open up investments in the Middle East to Chinese oil and construction companies, for example. Nobody should have illusions that all conflicts will end, that militaries will disappear. But the road we are on now leads to WWIII.

My view is that the U.S. should encourage its allies in Europe to follow a European-wide foreign policy, wherever they can agree on one. We should not fear European unity but encourage it. Europe should be encouraged to have its own armed forces, if only to help it politically & psychologically. Perhaps this can start first only with France & Germany and a few other countries. They will certainly be no threat to the U.S. or Russia. The U.S. should stop opposing Nordstream2 and end U.S. “secondary  sanctions” against European companies that trade with Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Russia and China. Wherever possible, when the U.S. military intervenes abroad it should be _with_ and not against other major powers.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

ESay said:


> ...
> It is not about what I like or dislike. It is about how the things work in our world. 'Big' countries are almost always rivalries with their spheres of influence. And I definitely dont want to live in the spheres of China or Russia.



I had no problem to be a Russian or Chinese. Wonderful rich cultures - what doesn't mean "Russia" and "China" would be happy, if I would live there. But my question was another question: Why do you not send the soldiers of your own country to Russia and China and kill "them", whoever they are, so you are able to feel safe? Why do you think the USA should do so? Or whatelse do you understand, when you say the USA should confront the Russian and the Chinese empire? What about, if the USA would decide to conquer your country and to destroy there all good goods, which are made in China or made with the direct or indirect help of China? Would this be the right act, how the USA should confront China, because you love, that this will happen?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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From my point of view is the USA and their lifestyle a main reason why all Germans are dying out. I speak sometimes even about the US-American curse to kill everything, what the USA is touching. So I do not share your optimism in case of the USA. You are not any longer the vivid nation full of migrants from all over the world, which you was once. What you you will be is not clear. And in case of Russia and China I don't have any idea what "Russia wins" or "China wins" could mean - except to win more democracy.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


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Which zoo do you come from?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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When we will provoke Russia, then "you" will find a Russian kind of nuke in your garden, giving you some cyrillic information.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 7, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> bendog said:
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Don't tell me you have anything to do with the USA. You live in psychiatria, isn't it?


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## MaryAnne11 (Dec 8, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
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> > zaangalewa said:
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We don’t! We did have to in the 1940’s because your Government attacked Britain. FDR did that very reluctantly. We were building up our defenses in case the idiots tried to attack us. My Dad worked in a Defense plant before he went in Service.

And of course the wealthy who were making fortunes building weapons for Adolph did not want that at all. Like the Bush family, who had their manufacturing confiscated by the US because they would not leave.

We also helped to rebuild your Countries. Ever hear of the Marshall plan? I am sure you will deny that. No you are safe today because you are a small Country. We really need to get all our Military out of every Country.

I am one of those Liberals who think. It is long past time.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 8, 2020)

MaryAnne11 said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> > ESay said:
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It was Hitler, who declared war on the USA after Pearl Harbor in December 11th 1941. This was nearly in 1942. Nevertheless this justifies nothing for anyone, because Hitler was not able to do a war against the USA.



> FDR



Franklin Delano Roosevelt, I guess



> did that very reluctantly.



?



> We were building up our defenses in case the idiots tried to attack us. My Dad worked in a Defense plant before he went in Service.
> 
> And of course the wealthy who were making fortunes building weapons for Adolph



Adolf Hitler



> did not want that at all. Like the Bush family, who had their manufacturing confiscated by the US because they would not leave.
> 
> We also helped to rebuild your Countries.



Hmm ... not really. I guess you had to help to rebuild Germany - otherwise the catastrophe you made in Europe together with Stalin would had been much too disastrous. The war crimes the USA made during world war 2 show that you followed the idea to wipe out all Germans. Today from the Germans of the year 1913 exists a third number of grand-grand...grandchildren. From the US-Americans of the same time of history exist today about 3 grand-grand...children.



> Ever hear of the Marshall plan? I am sure you will deny that.



Why shouId I? The Marshal plan was psychologically an important thing - but in reality it was much less important for the rebuild of Germany, than the most people think today about this propagandistic myth. The Marshall plan gave European nations the right to get a credit in goods from the USA. The German government had to subvention the very expensive goods (and to pay back the credit too), which the Mashall plan allowed German companies to sell from the USA. Without subventions they had to buy this goods in other regions of the world - what was just simple impossible, because Germany was not a souvereign nation.



> No you are safe today because you are a small Country.



We never were safe and we are not safe today. In October 2020 for example the NATO trained in Germany to throw nukes to Germany. During the cold war for example the NATO decided to nuke a little German town in the middle of Germany to stop the Soviets in case of an invasion of the Soviets. How many Germans die in such an operation was and is for the NATO as unimportant as it was unimportant for the Warshaw pact.

As far as I can see is the only project for the peace in Europe the European Union.



> [We really need to get all our Military out of every Country.



I agree 100% with this idea, specially for Germany. The Trump government showed very clear that the hate within the USA against Germany and Europe is much too high. This makes you to a risk and not to an ally.



> I am one of those Liberals who think.



How US-Americans use the word "liberal" is very different from the way how Germans use this word.



> It is long past time.



Reality and past are always relevant.


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## ESay (Dec 8, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


I dont want anyone to send troops for fighting (though, I am in favor of the military development as a mean of deterrence). The Cold War was won by the West not by military means.

If I should choose to side with Russia or China or the US, I will choose the US, without a doubt.


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 8, 2020)

_"Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_ "

This paragraph and its questions are each worthy of a Blue Book Final Exam in a graduate course on International Relations.

I don't have any erudite answers but one simple observation:  Diplomacy will replace Brinkmanship with Biden in the White House.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 8, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
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> > zaangalewa said:
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No. If you will provoke Russia without clear and direct American order then you will observe new giant mushrooms raising at the places of your military bases. Any American government (Republican or Democratic) will prefer to nuke you by our own forces to prevent uncontrolled start of WWIII.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
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And what do you think will the USA say to your choice? "Sure I like to marry you?" Or will the say: "Do not think about, what the USA is able to do for you - think about what you are able to do for the USA!"?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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Orders from the USA are totally unimportant for me.



> then you will observe new giant mushrooms raising at the places of your military bases. Any American government (Republican or Democratic) will prefer to nuke you by our own forces to prevent uncontrolled start of WWIII.



What about an exchange brain? Dracula forgot his spare brain the .last time he was here, as far as I heard. It's a good brain - also experienced in 3D navigation and echolocasation. If we brush it up a little then it will be better than your old TV-produced nonsense brain.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

bendog said:


> ESay said:
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> > bendog said:
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Are you a Pole? Then take care to be a democracy in sense of the western world and not a tyranny in sense of your own past(s). I see by the way the Russians discuss all day long about, how they fear they could be conquered from Poland or how they are too shy to conquer their brother nation Poland on their own, while Poland and the USA eliminate their worst enemy Germany.



> A European conventional force should be achievable, but it is a multi-year goal.  Given the past century, I'd hope the US keeps providing some component of it.  Europe is a trading partner.  And Russia remains a nuclear power.  Wasn't it Merlke



Merkel



> who called them a gas station with nuclear weapons or something like that?



For sure not - except our chancellor Mrs. Angela Merkel had a very bad day. Normally she is a very polite politician and not a Trump(el).


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## Silver Cat (Dec 9, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
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Ha! Do you really want to untune that string? 

How it was said? 
--------------------------
Take but degree away, untune that string,
And, hark, what discord follows! each thing meets
In mere oppugnancy: the bounded waters
Should lift their bosoms higher than the shores
And make a sop of all this solid globe:
Strength should be lord of imbecility,
And the rude son should strike his father dead:
Force should be right; or rather, right and wrong,
Between whose endless jar justice resides,
Should lose their names, and so should justice too.
Then every thing includes itself in power,
Power into will, will into appetite;
And appetite, an universal wolf,
So doubly seconded with will and power,
Must make perforce an universal prey,
And last eat up himself. 
------------------

That's why nobody will allow you to become really independent. You just can not control yourself. 



> > then you will observe new giant mushrooms raising at the places of your military bases. Any American government (Republican or Democratic) will prefer to nuke you by our own forces to prevent uncontrolled start of WWIII.
> 
> 
> 
> What about an exchange brain? Dracula forgot his spare brain the .last time he was here, as far as I heard. It's a good brain - also experienced in 3D navigation and echolocasation. If we brush it up a little then it will be better than your old TV-produced nonsense brain.


Oh, yes. Vlad "Dracula" Tzepesh,  East-European Machiavelli, the great warrior and the wise state leader. "The Tale about Warlord Dracula" was read by Ivan the Terrible, by Stalin, and by the most of Russian political and military leaders.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 9, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> bendog said:
> 
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> > ESay said:
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You know, one of the main Russian state holidays (after May, 9) is Nov, 4 - the day, when they celebrate the end of "Polish occupation".


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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No.



> the day, when they celebrate the end of "Polish occupation".



Three independence days? June 12th, May 9th and November 4th?  ... Why not? ... On the other side will be the real Russian independence day the day when Russia will finally win its war against vodka. They drink and drink and drink vodka since centuries now - and never it became less vodka. A terrible enemy.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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## Silver Cat (Dec 9, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
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In fact, the Russians drink less than the Germans. 








						Russland: Alkoholkonsum sinkt, Lebenserwartung steigt - WELT
					

Russen saufen von morgens bis abends Wodka? Falsch. Inzwischen trinken sie weniger als die Deutschen. Die Weltgesundheitsorganisation sieht das Land sogar als Vorbild für andere.




					www.welt.de
				



----------------------------
„Wir zerstören hier ein Klischee von Russland“, sagte die WHO-Expertin Carina Ferreira-Borges der Deutschen Presse-Agentur. Demnach tranken Russen 2016 nur noch 11,7 Liter Alkohol pro Kopf und Jahr. Zum Vergleich: In Deutschland waren es den WHO-Daten zufolge 13,4 Liter. Gemeint ist jeweils reiner Alkohol. Ein halber Liter Bier enthält etwa 20 Gramm Alkohol. Die Russen trinken meist lieber härtere Sachen wie Wodka.
---------------------------
"We are destroying a stereotype of Russia here," WHO expert Carina Ferreira-Borges told the German Press Agency. According to this, Russians only drank 11.7 liters of alcohol per capita per year in 2016. By way of comparison, according to WHO data, the figure in Germany was 13.4 litres. In each case pure alcohol is meant. Half a Liter of beer contains about 20 grams of alcohol. The Russians usually prefer to drink harder things like vodka.
----------------------
Do you know how the Russians mock you?


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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This text makes no sense - what is the original language?



> That's why nobody will allow you to become really independent. You just can not control yourself.



What a nonsense. People, who can not control themselve get serios problems in all cultures around the world. We call them normally "criminals".



> > > then you will observe new giant mushrooms raising at the places of your military bases. Any American government (Republican or Democratic) will prefer to nuke you by our own forces to prevent uncontrolled start of WWIII.
> >
> >
> >
> ...



I thought not about a real person in context "Dracula". This story from the region Siebenbürgen (Transsilvania) is a story for  long winter nights on a nice warm camp fire.  I used it as a metaphor for absurdity.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
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Not my fault.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 9, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> Do you know how the Russians mock you?



No.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 9, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
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It's English. "Troiles and Cressida". You should read Shakespeare if you want to improve your language skills. 




> > That's why nobody will allow you to become really independent. You just can not control yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> What a nonsense. People, who can not control themselve get serios problems in all cultures around the world. We call them normally "criminals".


Yes. You are criminals. 



> > > > then you will observe new giant mushrooms raising at the places of your military bases. Any American government (Republican or Democratic) will prefer to nuke you by our own forces to prevent uncontrolled start of WWIII.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ...


That's your problem. You don't think about real persons and real things. You think only about your own fantasies.


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## Silver Cat (Dec 9, 2020)

Those frog-eaters don't know the difference between Libya and Lebadon, and they pretend to be "independent"?


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## HenryBHough (Dec 9, 2020)

How does one say "Fourth Reich" in French?


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## ESay (Dec 9, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
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> > zaangalewa said:
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I think something like the latter will be the case.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 10, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> zaangalewa said:
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Shakespeare? ... I should understand what Shakespeare said easily ... Hmm - indeed: "_The Historie of Troylus and Cresseida_", Drama from William Shakespeare. Never heard about. I will read it in German this Christmas tide, if a translation exists.



> > That's why nobody will allow you to become really independent. You just can not control yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



End of discussion, Russian.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 10, 2020)

HenryBHough said:


> How does one say "Fourth Reich" in French?



Translate it into English and then translate it into French: "Fourth Reich" = "Viertes Reich" (in German) = "Fourth empire" (in  English) = ... in French.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 10, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
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Now you slowly seem to understand what you try to speak about.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 10, 2020)

Silver Cat said:


> ...  That's your problem. You don't think about real persons and real things. You think only about your own fantasies.



Only to make this clear: Dracula is nothing else than a fantasy story from the year 1897, which shows the genius of the Irish author Bram Stoker - and has nearly nothing to do with the Woiwode (warlord) Vlad III. from Schäßburg (German) or _Sighișoara_ (Romanian), who got the surename "_Drăculea" _(son of the dragon (="son of the devil")). Count Dracula is as less real as the Bohemian sea, which was born from Shakespeare with the sentence: _„Bohemia. A desert country near the sea.“_.

And you should not confuse reality with the ideas of tourism agencies. In the 19th century for example we invented the chastity belt and the iron maiden and built a middle age torture chamber, which never had existed before in history, for tourists - specially for the Brits, who loved such stories very much.


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## ESay (Dec 10, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
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> > zaangalewa said:
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Actually, it was understandable what you are trying to imply from the very beginning.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 10, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
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Why do you speak with other human beings?


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## ESay (Dec 11, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
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> > zaangalewa said:
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What a weird question. Specify what you want to ask about.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 11, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
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> 
> > ESay said:
> ...



Bye bye.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 11, 2020)

ESay - what means "funny" now? As far as I can see we speak here about the survival of all mankind.


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## ESay (Dec 11, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay - what means "funny" now? As far as I can see we speak here about the survival of all mankind.


Funny is how you take part in discussion.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 12, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > ESay - what means "funny" now? As far as I can see we speak here about the survival of all mankind.
> ...



Give me a very concrete example what you speak about now.


*Wenn nicht mehr Zahlen und Figuren*

_Wenn nicht mehr Zahlen und Figuren
Sind Schlüssel aller Kreaturen
Wenn die, so singen oder küssen,
Mehr als die Tiefgelehrten wissen,
Wenn sich die Welt ins freye Leben
Und in die Welt wird zurück begeben,
Wenn dann sich wieder Licht und Schatten
Zu ächter Klarheit werden gatten,
Und man in Mährchen und Gedichten
Erkennt die wahren Weltgeschichten,
Dann fliegt vor Einem geheimen Wort
Das ganze verkehrte Wesen fort._

*Novalis* (=Georg Friedrich Philipp Freiherr von Hardenberg)

__


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## ESay (Dec 12, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> ESay said:
> 
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> > zaangalewa said:
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Forget it. Have a nice weekend.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 12, 2020)

ESay said:


> zaangalewa said:
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Same to you.


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## Captain Caveman (Dec 13, 2020)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


The French have always been hell bent on having a United States of Europe. On their own, they're a hapless Muslim run white flag piss poor country.


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## zaangalewa (Dec 13, 2020)

Captain Caveman said:


> ...
> 
> The French have always been hell bent on having a United States of Europe. On their own, they're a hapless Muslim run white flag piss poor country.



And on your own you are who? ¿Ebenezer Scrooge?


_Zwischen Ochs und Eselein,
schläft der kleine Sohn 
Tausend Engel ziehn
Tausend Seraphim_
fliegen um den Kleinen,
der uns Liebe bringt

_Voller ... 
schläft der kleine Sohn 
Tausend Engel ziehn
Tausend Seraphim_
fliegen um den Kleinen,
der uns Liebe bringt

In dem purpurharten Stroh
schäft Emmanuel 
_Tausend Engel ziehn
Tausend Seraphim_
fliegen um den Kleinen,
der uns Liebe brnigt


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## xyz (Dec 13, 2020)

zaangalewa said:


> Silver Cat said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
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Actually if you follow his threads, it's pretty clear he IS Russian.


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## bambu. (Nov 10, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> _What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.
> 
> Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?_
> 
> ...


Lovely...but let them pay for it all themselves.
Once they've got their own EU military they won't need the US to be giving them billions.


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## zaangalewa (Nov 10, 2021)

bambu. said:


> Lovely...but let them pay for it all themselves.
> Once they've got their own EU military they won't need the US to be giving them billions.



Anyway you are not able to defend what you hate on no reason to do so: your parent- and grandparent-nations. So leave the houses of your ancestors - which you anyway wasted in many cases - model child of the own ignorance, intrigance, arrogance and aggressions.

You payed and pay money to your own army - that's all. For the NATO (the total household of the NATO is about 1-2 billions a year) you pay nearly nothing - but somehow seem all US-Americans to think the USA needs no allies for nothing because the armies of their allies are US-American institutions.


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## xyz (Nov 21, 2021)

bambu. said:


> Lovely...but let them pay for it all themselves.
> Once they've got their own EU military they won't need the US to be giving them billions.


Agree, but that would take up decades at least. And there is a threat already on the doorstep, Russia is in Europe geographically.


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## ESay (Nov 21, 2021)

xyz said:


> Agree, but that would take up decades at least. And there is a threat already on the doorstep, Russia is in Europe geographically.


So what? They don't consider Russia as a threat. The French and Germans are eager to have 'pragmatic' relations with them.


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