# Well, she certainly didn't kill McCain's chances



## Silence

she did good.  I'm not surprised.  She seems like a bright, articulate woman.

They gave her a great speech and she nailed it.  

It's too bad she's not the one running, even with her NRA/pro-life bullshit I'd be tempted to vote for her....if I weren't getting John McCain in the deal.


----------



## Jon

She did amazing. She showed knowledge of foreign policy in many aspects, she showed her knowledge of energy independence, she showed her understanding of working-class America, and she took great jabs at Barack Obama. Home run!


----------



## Toro

Frankly, I don't know if my expectations were so low or that I really, really want to have sex with this woman, but I thought she gave a pretty good speech.  Heck, I might have to become a Republican again!


----------



## SwingVoter

Silence said:


> It's too bad she's not the one running



agree, she was great


----------



## Jon

I LOVED the line, "What's the difference between a bulldog and a hockey mom? Lipstick."

It sounded like a direct challenge to Biden.


----------



## Silence

Toro said:


> Frankly, I don't know if my expectations were so low or that I really, really want to have sex with this woman, but I thought she gave a pretty good speech.  Heck, I might have to become a Republican again!




 now don't go crazy toro... she's pretty fertile and doesn't believe in birth control 

I don't think it was that my expectations were low, cuz they weren't.  I just didn't know what the expect.  

I will say this, she's one of the few Republicans I can actually LISTEN to speak for any length of time.  She didn't bore the snot out of me and even if I strongly disagree with her she got her message across.  

It's the wrong message for the country at this point simply based on what Bush & Co have done to this country over the last 8 years.  We can't take the chance on McCain/Palin because we can't trust that they won't continue on with business as usual.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Silence said:


> she did good.  I'm not surprised.  She seems like a bright, articulate woman.
> 
> They gave her a great speech and she nailed it.
> 
> It's too bad she's not the one running, even with her NRA/pro-life bullshit I'd be tempted to vote for her....if I weren't getting John McCain in the deal.



She hit that one out of the park. That was nothing short of outstanding. The hits were well placed and delivered with force and perfection. She even did it without an elaborate movie set. Great speech. Watch the polls bounce now.


----------



## Jon

Also, "Being mayor is kinda like being a community organizer, except you have actual responsibility."


----------



## Red Dawn

jsanders said:


> She did amazing. *She showed knowledge of foreign policy in many aspects, she showed her knowledge of energy independence,* she showed her understanding of working-class America, and she took great jabs at Barack Obama. Home run!



Hate to break it to you, but she didn't write those words.  McCain's speech writers wrote it for her.


----------



## Jon

Silence said:


> It's the wrong message for the country at this point simply based on what Bush & Co have done to this country over the last 8 years.  We can't take the chance on McCain/Palin because we can't trust that they won't continue on with business as usual.



Why can't you trust them? The WHOLE night has been about reform and change, every person who got on that stage talked about it, including Palin. They want change to, but as they said, there's good change, and there's bad change. It's clear to me the direction McCain/Palin wants to go, and it's the direction I want to follow in.


----------



## Modbert

jsanders said:


> I LOVED the line, "What's the difference between a bulldog and a hockey mom? Lipstick."
> 
> It sounded like a direct challenge to Biden.



She sounded cocky if she's going to taunt Biden like that.

She'll be setting herself up for a fall flat on her face.

If you don't think the Democrats will have a bunch of stuff prepared for that debate then your underestimating them. Look what the media has found about her in a few days alone.


----------



## Silence

jsanders said:


> I LOVED the line, "What's the difference between a bulldog and a hockey mom? Lipstick."
> .



that line had me laughing too.  

she can certainly deliver a good one-liner.  and she's a much more natural speaker than McCain, who often times comes across as a bumbling fool.


----------



## Jon

Red Dawn said:


> Hate to break it to you, but she didn't write those words.  McCain's speech writers wrote it for her.



Oh, well, I guess McCain's speech writers do a better job than Obama's.


----------



## random3434

She held my attention, and she held her own up there in the spotlight. Could you imagine speaking in front of that crowd, and millions more on tv? I would have been shaking in my boots!


I like what she said about being an advocate for special needs kids. She has some good ideas, and she seemed to want to distance herself from Bush & co.


----------



## Toro

She had some pretty good lines.

The one I liked best was the one about having a special needs child and having an advocate in the White House.   That was straight at the Democrats and Independents.


----------



## Jon

Modbert said:


> She sounded cocky if she's going to taunt Biden like that.
> 
> She'll be setting herself up for a fall flat on her face.
> 
> If you don't think the Democrats will have a bunch of stuff prepared for that debate then your underestimating them. Look what the media has found about her in a few days alone.



Yes, she did sound cocky, and good for her. She's not afraid of a fight. She seems pretty feisty, and I've seen her debate for governor. She hits where it hurts.

I think she made it pretty clear how she felt about the media. She's not running for VP to get the media's approval, she's running to serve the people.


----------



## Red Dawn

Silence said:


> she did good.  I'm not surprised.  She seems like a bright, articulate woman.
> 
> They gave her a great speech and she nailed it.
> 
> It's too bad she's not the one running, even with her NRA/pro-life bullshit I'd be tempted to vote for her....if I weren't getting John McCain in the deal.



She gave a good speech. 

I'm sure she's a smart and articulate women.  She has to be.   A woman has to be better than a man to get to the level of Governor, VP, or Prez.  Men can get a pass for being an appalling dummy.  George Bush is evidence of that.  A woman who acts like a dummy cannot get anywhere close to a governor's mansion or the white house.


----------



## Toro

I think there's a danger for the Democrats in underestimating this woman.

You don't become governor of a state and over-turn a corrupt good ole boys network without being tough.


----------



## Jon

Red Dawn said:


> A woman who acts like a dummy cannot get anywhere close to a governor's mansion or the white house.



It's getting Michelle Obama close enough.

Speaking of Michelle, I LOVED how all the major speakers said, "I've ALWAYS been proud to be an American."


----------



## Silence

jsanders said:


> Why can't you trust them? The WHOLE night has been about reform and change, every person who got on that stage talked about it, including Palin. They want change to, but as they said, there's good change, and there's bad change. It's clear to me the direction McCain/Palin wants to go, and it's the direction I want to follow in.



I can't trust them because McCain, until recently, has fully embraced Bush & Co.  Trying to distance himself NOW is too little too late.  90% of the time rings in my ears.

It's important to me personally that we end the war in Iraq.  It's important to me that a woman's right to choose is protected.  It's important to me that health care be made available to all Americans.  It's important to me that we focus more on domestic issues rather than nation building.


----------



## SwingVoter

Modbert said:


> Look what the media has found about her in a few days alone.



How many more corrections do you think the NY Times will have to publish?


----------



## Jeepers

Modbert said:


> She sounded cocky if she's going to taunt Biden like that.
> 
> She'll be setting herself up for a fall flat on her face.
> 
> If you don't think the Democrats will have a bunch of stuff prepared for that debate then your underestimating them. Look what the media has found about her in a few days alone.



I dunno.. puss biden is already saying she is well qualified... wtf..

She read a teleprompter well... got nervous once or twice but she did better than I had expected... Her speech really wasnt based in reality either. I will like to see her in an unscripted forum.. chances are however that this will never take place... The pubs are already building a little caccoon around her...


----------



## Modbert

jsanders said:


> Also, "Being mayor is kinda like being a community organizer, except you have actual responsibility."



Hmm..



> Wasilla is a city of 6,715 that is 68 km (42 miles) north of the port of Anchorage.[18] Palin began her political career in 1992, when she ran for a three-year term on the Wasilla city council, supporting a controversial new sales tax and advocating "a safer, more progressive Wasilla."[19] She won, and won re-election to a second three-year term in the 1995 election.
> 
> In 1996, Palin challenged and defeated incumbent John Stein for the office of mayor.[19] In the campaign, she criticized Stein for what she called wasteful spending and high taxes,[6] and highlighted issues such as abortion, religion and gun control.[20] Though the position of mayor is non-partisan, the state Republican Party ran advertisements on her behalf.[21]
> 
> 
> Wasilla City Hall In October 1996, she asked the Wasilla police chief, librarian, public works director, and finance director to resign, and she instituted a policy requiring department heads to get her approval before talking to reporters.[22] In January 1997, Palin notified the police chief, Irl Stambaugh, and the town librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons that they were being fired.[23] Palin said in a letter that she wanted a change because she believed the two did not fully support her administration. She rescinded the firing of the librarian, but not the police chief.[24] The chief filed a lawsuit; but a court dismissed it, finding that the mayor had the right to fire city employees for nearly any reason.[25] According to Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who observed City Council, Palin also brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting, but did not follow through with the idea.[20]
> 
> As mayor of Wasilla, Palin was in charge of the city Police Department, consisting of 25 officers, and Public Works.[26] She was praised for cutting property taxes by 40%[27] while improving roads and sewers and strengthening the Police Department.[20] She also reduced the mayoral salary, reduced spending on the town museum, and opposed a bigger library.[27] She increased the city sales tax to pay for the new Wasilla Multi-Use Sports Complex,[26] which eventually went over budget due to an eminent domain lawsuit.[28]
> 
> Palin ran for re-election against Stein in 1999[6][29] and was returned to office by a margin of 909 to 292 votes.[30] Palin was also elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors.[31]
> 
> During her second term as mayor, Palin hired the Anchorage-based lobbying firm of Robertson, Monagle & Eastaugh to lobby for earmarks for Wasilla. The effort was led by Steven Silver, a former chief of staff for Senator Ted Stevens,[32] and it secured nearly $27 million in earmarked funds. The earmarks included $500,000 for a youth shelter, $1.9 million for a transportation hub, $900,000 for sewer repairs, and $15 million for a rail project linking Wasilla and the ski resort community of Girdwood.[33] Some of the earmarks were criticized by Senator McCain.[34]
> 
> In 2002, term limits prevented Palin from running for a third term as mayor.[35] Her stepmother-in-law, Faye Palin, ran for the office but lost the election to Dianne Keller[36] after Sarah Palin endorsed Keller,[20] her cousin.[citation needed]



- Wikipedia 

Sarah Palin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And of course..

Political Irony  Palin - ceremonial head of Wasilla AK

So to fix her statement:

"Having a ceremonial job as mayor is kinda like being a community organizer, except you don't make a difference." (Least a positive one anyway)


----------



## Jon

Toro said:


> I think there's a danger for the Democrats in underestimating this woman.
> 
> You don't become governor of a state and over-turn a corrupt good ole boys network without being tough.



Thank you. It's clear McCain made a very calculated choice in this woman. She's exactly what his campaign needed. Romney showed tonight that he was the WRONG choice for VP, he was not very well received. It seems Giuliani would have been a great choice, the crowd loved him, and he gave a great speech directed at Obama.


----------



## Silence

jsanders said:


> It's getting Michelle Obama close enough.
> 
> Speaking of Michelle, I LOVED how all the major speakers said, "I've ALWAYS been proud to be an American."




I thought going after Michelle was actually one of the low points.


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> I dunno.. puss biden is already saying she is well qualified... wtf..
> 
> She read a teleprompter well... got nervous once or twice but she did better than I had expected... Her speech really wasnt based in reality either. I will like to see her in an unscripted forum.. chances are however that this will never take place... The pubs are already building a little caccoon around her...



She wasn't reading that teleprompter. Trust me, I've had to use a teleprompter before. If you're reading from it, your eyes don't move much. Her eyes were all over the place. She used it to stay on track, but she clearly was not reading it.


----------



## dilloduck

Red Dawn said:


> She gave a good speech.
> 
> I'm sure she's a smart and articulate women.  She has to be.   A woman has to be better than a man to get to the level of Governor, VP, or Prez.  Men can get a pass for being an appalling dummy.  George Bush is evidence of that.  A woman who acts like a dummy cannot get anywhere close to a governor's mansion or the white house.



Bush got a pass- ???  oh please tell me you're kidding. He's been crucified for 7 years !


----------



## Jon

Silence said:


> I thought going after Michelle was actually one of the low points.



Good for you, but Michelle asked for it. She put herself on trial when she made such vile remarks as that. Plus, she's a snotty stuck-up bitch who sat with her smug expression through Hillary's entire speech. She obviously has no respect for anyone but her husband.


----------



## Red Dawn

jsanders said:


> Thank you. It's clear McCain made a very calculated choice in this woman. She's exactly what his campaign needed. Romney showed tonight that he was the WRONG choice for VP, he was not very well received. It seems Giuliani would have been a great choice, the crowd loved him, and he gave a great speech directed at Obama.



Your a hyper partisan, so your opinion will be balanced against your hyper partisanship.  You weren't even willing to say obama gave a good speech.   You look at the world through partisan glasses. 

A lot of liberals on here are being honest, and calling a good speech when they see one, regardless of party. 

So, I'm going to weight people's opinons accordingly.  You're so hyper partisan, your opinion really doesn't mean much, except that you worship at the alter of the GOP.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> She wasn't reading that teleprompter. Trust me, I've had to use a teleprompter before. If you're reading from it, your eyes don't move much. Her eyes were all over the place. She used it to stay on track, but she clearly was not reading it.



Dude.. the rear shots keep showing the teleprompter, I was reading along with her.... she had screens everywhere..


----------



## Toro

jsanders said:


> Thank you. It's clear McCain made a very calculated choice in this woman. She's exactly what his campaign needed. Romney showed tonight that he was the WRONG choice for VP, he was not very well received. It seems Giuliani would have been a great choice, the crowd loved him, and he gave a great speech directed at Obama.



I agree.  I think Romney would have been a terrible choice as a running mate.


----------



## Article 15

She did very well delivering the prepared speech in a controlled environment ... 

The will get a bounce from tonight ...

And now they will sequester in a hotel until the VP debate just like they did the past 3 days ...


----------



## Silence

dilloduck said:


> Bush got a pass- ???  oh please tell me you're kidding. He's been crucified for 7 years !



well in fairness, Bush IS an idiot


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Dude.. the rear shots keep showing the teleprompter, I was reading along with her.... she had screens everywhere..



I saw it, it was cleverly placed on screen, actually. But, you could tell she wasn't reading from it.


----------



## Toro

Jeepers said:


> Dude.. the rear shots keep showing the teleprompter, I was reading along with her.... she had screens everywhere..



Well, if you've ever given a speech before, you practice it beforehand.  It didn't look like she was reading it to me.


----------



## Modbert

Silence said:


> I thought going after Michelle was actually one of the low points.



Considering she's not actually running it is pretty low.

Though of course it's not okay to talk about Cindy McCain's drug problem or Bristol's pregnancy supposedly. The Republicans will scream bloody murder.

(And yes I know she spoke for her Husband when saying this but Cindy McCain spoke for her husband too.)



The term doublethink keeps coming to mind for me.


----------



## Article 15

jsanders said:


> She did amazing. *She showed knowledge of foreign policy in many aspects*, she showed her knowledge of energy independence, she showed her understanding of working-class America, and she took great jabs at Barack Obama. Home run!



 

Puhhhhleeeezzeee


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> Good for you, but Michelle asked for it. She put herself on trial when she made such vile remarks as that. Plus, she's a snotty stuck-up bitch who sat with her smug expression through Hillary's entire speech. She obviously has no respect for anyone but her husband.



Michelle rocks...


----------



## Red Dawn

dilloduck said:


> Bush got a pass- ???  oh please tell me you're kidding. He's been crucified for 7 years !



Bush was elected to the presidency twice  by people like you.  

I guaran-damn-tee you a woman who acted as stupid as bush, and was as inarticulate as him would never have a shot at the white house let alone a governor's mansion. 

Women have to be better.  They don't get the slack men do.  A woman as stupid as Bush wouldn't have a prayer to rise to the top of the heap.


----------



## Silence

I didn't see much in terms of issues that are relevant to the country's problems.  

and can I say how adorable Piper is!


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> Puhhhhleeeezzeee



Article, perhaps we need to bring up the video link I posted on another thread earlier as did you?


----------



## dilloduck

Red Dawn said:


> Bush was elected to the presidency twice  by people like you.
> 
> I guaran-damn-tee you a woman who acted as stupid as bush, and was as inarticulate as him would never have a shot at the white house let alone a governor's mansion.
> 
> Women have to be better.  They don't get the slack men do.  A woman as stupid as Bush wouldn't have a prayer to rise to the top of the heap.



She's not rising to the top of the heap.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> I saw it, it was cleverly placed on screen, actually. But, you could tell she wasn't reading from it.



No.. it was obvious.. christ man... she kept reading fast then pausing...


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> No.. it was obvious.. christ man... she kept reading fast then pausing...



Whatever you want to believe. I've heard her speak without a teleprompter, she has the same composure and articulation.

I'm not going to argue this issue with you. Believe in what you wish.


----------



## Jon

Silence said:


> I didn't see much in terms of issues that are relevant to the country's problems.



Really, so the 5-8 minutes she went on about energy independence and how we have the resources to begin that process, you just didn't listen?

Or how she addressed the threats of foreign terrorists?

Or how she mentioned the need to create jobs (again, referring to energy)?

You just tuned that out?


----------



## SwingVoter

Red Dawn said:


> I guaran-damn-tee you a woman who acted as stupid as bush, and was as inarticulate as him



Tomorrow night Barbara Bush will speak about raising a special needs child.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> Whatever you want to believe. I've heard her speak without a teleprompter, she has the same composure and articulation.
> 
> I'm not going to argue this issue with you. Believe in what you wish.



Yeah sure Nancy.. the ink on this speech was barely dry and you think this soccer mom actually memorized it...


----------



## Jon

SwingVoter said:


> Tomorrow night Barbara Bush will speak about raising a special needs child.


----------



## Article 15

Modbert said:


> Article, perhaps we need to bring up the video link I posted on another thread earlier as did you?



lol ... they wouldn't watch it anyway ...


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Yeah sure Nancy.. the ink on this speech was barely dry and you think this soccer mom actually memorized it...



Obviously, you know nothing about what a journalism major studies.


----------



## Silence

jsanders said:


> Good for you, but Michelle asked for it. She put herself on trial when she made such vile remarks as that. Plus, she's a snotty stuck-up bitch who sat with her smug expression through Hillary's entire speech. She obviously has no respect for anyone but her husband.



Michelle explained what she meant and I honestly don't fault her for her remark at all.  as for showing respect for Hillary?  sorry I'd have a hard time showing respect for someone who, at times, showed absolutely NO respect for my husband.  Obama and Hillary have to play kissy face and "we're buddies" Michelle doesn't.  and IMO, she had that same face for every speaker pretty much.  

and  at the idea that a woman who grew up in the South Side of Chicago and got through college on loans is a stuck up bitch... what the hell is Cindy McCain who was born with a silver spoon sticking out of her ass?  

js, you do a huge disservice to your positions by continuing to harp on things that are irrelevant to the issues facing this country.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> Obviously, you know nothing about what a journalism major studies.



Probably not since my candidate studied and taught law...


----------



## Ninja

SwingVoter said:


> Tomorrow night Barbara Bush will speak about raising a special needs child.



ROFL


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> lol ... they wouldn't watch it anyway ...



Ahh using facts and common sense. It's like kicking water uphill, you can try all you like but at the end of the day it will do no good.


----------



## Jon

Silence said:


> sorry I'd have a hard time showing respect for someone who, at times, showed absolutely NO respect for my husband.



Yet, Bill was able to get up, and put differences aside, and show support for Obama, after Obama made equally vile remarks about his wife AND him. That's the difference between the Clintons and the Obamas. The Clintons can show human decency.


----------



## Article 15

SwingVoter said:


> Tomorrow night Barbara Bush will speak about raising a special needs child.



Bwahahahahaha ... and that'll get you repped!


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Probably not since my candidate studied and taught law...



Then spent years changing not a damn thing about it.


----------



## Dirt McGirt

Great speech. 

I'm glad she took off the gloves. Now we don't have to hear about the right crying about smear attacks like they've been doing. Plus she's shed that girl next door image. Nobody's going to feel sorry for her when they go after her now.

The only problem is, she looks like she might be able to go toe to toe with Biden.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> Then spent years changing not a damn thing about it.



Really... dont believe everything you hear...


----------



## Red Dawn

SwingVoter said:


> Tomorrow night Barbara Bush will speak about raising a special needs child.



LOL

and tearful memories of putting young George on the short bus for his first day at school.


----------



## Jon

Dirt McGirt said:


> Great speech.
> 
> I'm glad she took off the gloves. Now we don't have to hear about the right crying about smear attacks like they've been doing. Plus she's shed that girl next door image. Nobody's going to feel sorry for her when they go after her now.
> 
> The only problem is, she looks like she might be able to go toe to toe with Biden.



Agreed. She's not afraid of him, she made that clear. She also doesn't give a flying fuck what the media says, which made my day.


----------



## Dirt McGirt

SwingVoter said:


> Tomorrow night Barbara Bush will speak about raising a special needs child.



It doesn't matter who you're voting for, that was comedy gold.


----------



## jillian

Dirt McGirt said:


> Great speech.
> 
> I'm glad she took off the gloves. Now we don't have to hear about the right crying about smear attacks like they've been doing. Plus she's shed that girl next door image. Nobody's going to feel sorry for her when they go after her now.
> 
> The only problem is, she looks like she might be able to go toe to toe with Biden.



Her speech was fine. She didn't embarrass herself and if the content of what she said doesn't make you sick, i can see where she'd be likeable.

But I think Biden wll slice and dice her when she's called on to speak extemporaneously. Today, though, she did what they brought her in to do... read her speech and recite the right wing talking points and bite the pant legs of the dems. She did that fine. It won't get them any votes from the middle, but the g-d, guns and gays crowd will lap it up.


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Really... dont believe everything you hear...



I don't, I only believe what I've seen.

What I've HEARD is a lot of great rhetoric from Barack Obama. Promises to every man from every walk of life, how he's going to solve all the problems and make everyone happy, which we all know can't happen. You take from one to give to another.

What I've SEEN from Barack Obama is nothing. It's like Palin said, "He's written two personal memoirs, and not a single bit of legislature, not even in the state senate." Or was it Rudy who said that? Either way, it was a great line.

What I've HEARD from John McCain is a lot of talk about reform and change. What I've SEEN from John McCain matches what I've heard.


----------



## Red Dawn

jillian said:


> Her speech was fine. She didn't embarrass herself and if the content of what she said doesn't make you sick, i can see where she'd be likeable.
> 
> But I think Biden wll slice and dice her when she's called on to speak extemporaneously. Today, though, she did what they brought her in to do... read her speech and recite the right wing talking points and bite the pant legs of the dems. She did that fine. It won't get them any votes from the middle, but the g-d, guns and gays crowd will lap it up.



Damn right.  That was a red meat base speech.  Short on substance, and long on attacks.  No Hillary voters were switched over to voting GOP on that speech. 

Which is fine, that's what VPs do.   We'll see how she does outside the comfortable confines of a staged, and pre-scripted event.


----------



## CA95380

jsanders said:


> I LOVED the line, "What's the difference between a bulldog and a hockey mom? Lipstick."
> 
> It sounded like a direct challenge to Biden.



I think Palin is one of us, here on the USMB board.  She stole my joke about the bulldog and the Chihuahua.  http://www.usmessageboard.com/elections-2008/57169-biden-vs-palin-debate.html#post757498 

Now wouldn't that be a hoot!  

But I will say one thing for her .... it was nice to see someone on the Republican ticket that had some color on their face.  Next to McCain she actully looks alive.


----------



## Modbert

Martin on CNN brought up a great point about how she practically mocked Community Organizers.

If I were Obama and Biden, I'd attack the GOP and her on that one.

Oh and Swingvoter? Loved the Barbara Bush comment.


----------



## Jon

Modbert said:


> Martin on CNN brought up a great point about how she practically mocked Community Organizers.



Much like how the Democrats have mocked the responsibilities of a governor or mayor?


----------



## Ninja

My liberal girlfriend finally conceded that Palin was a great pick. 

And guys - she said pitbull.


----------



## Jon

Ninja said:


> My liberal girlfriend finally conceded that Palin was a great pick.
> 
> And guys - she said pitbull.



Whatever she said, it was a great line.


----------



## Red Dawn

jsanders said:


> Much like how the Democrats have mocked the responsibilities of a governor or mayor?




Obama was a community organizer 20 years ago. 

She was the mayor of an Alaskan village 20 months ago.


----------



## Jon

Red Dawn said:


> Obama was a community organizer 20 years ago.
> 
> She was the mayor of an Alaskan village 20 months ago.



She was? Interesting, I could have sworn she left that position in 2002. Of course, I actually read about people before making assumptions about them, what do I know?


----------



## Modbert

jsanders said:


> Much like how the Democrats have mocked the responsibilities of a governor or mayor?



It's been proven her job as mayor is and was purely ceremonial. Are you ignoring my long earlier point about her stint as mayor and what the mayor of that city actually does?

If so, please go back and look.


----------



## greenpartyaz

Silence said:


> well in fairness, Bush IS an idiot



Bush is a useful idiot!


----------



## Ninja

The fact that we are comparing the Dems' presidential nominee to the Repubs' veep nominee speaks volumes in of itself.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> I don't, I only believe what I've seen.
> 
> What I've HEARD is a lot of great rhetoric from Barack Obama. Promises to every man from every walk of life, how he's going to solve all the problems and make everyone happy, which we all know can't happen. You take from one to give to another.
> 
> What I've SEEN from Barack Obama is nothing. It's like Palin said, "He's written two personal memoirs, and not a single bit of legislature, not even in the state senate." Or was it Rudy who said that? Either way, it was a great line.
> 
> What I've HEARD from John McCain is a lot of talk about reform and change. What I've SEEN from John McCain matches what I've heard.



Here ya go Nancy.. List of bills sponsored by Barack Obama in the United States Senate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Give that one a gander. Warning though, it will leave you wondering how he ever had time to spend with his family.. well I mean you would wonder that if he were a woman....


----------



## Jeepers

Oh.. and he had time to crank out two best selling books....


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Here ya go Nancy.. List of bills sponsored by Barack Obama in the United States Senate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Give that one a gander. Warning though, it will leave you wondering how he ever had time to spend with his family.. well I mean you would wonder that if he were a woman....



Sponsoring a bill is not the same as writing a bill, my dear friend.


----------



## Modbert

Ninja said:


> The fact that we are comparing the Dems' presidential nominee to the Repubs' veep nominee speaks volumes in of itself.



Not really since that's been what the Republicans have been targeting for everyone to do. They want everyone to compare Palin who may not have so much experience to Obama who they kept saying has little experience. I find it interesting if perhaps that's one of the reasons she was picked.


----------



## Jon

Modbert said:


> It's been proven her job as mayor is and was purely ceremonial. Are you ignoring my long earlier point about her stint as mayor and what the mayor of that city actually does?
> 
> If so, please go back and look.



She cut city taxes and reformed the police department. That's more than ceremonial, in my opinion.


----------



## Missourian

There wasn't really anything else to say,  so I just quoted all of you !

<how lazy is that>

Here are my highlights.




Silence said:


> she did good.  I'm not surprised.  She seems like a bright, articulate woman.
> 
> They gave her a great speech and she nailed it.






onthefence said:


> She hit that one out of the park.






Echo Zulu said:


> She held my attention, and she held her own up there in the spotlight. Could you imagine speaking in front of that crowd, and millions more on tv? I would have been shaking in my boots!
> 
> 
> I like what she said about being an advocate for special needs kids. She has some good ideas, and she seemed to want to distance herself from Bush & co.






jsanders said:


> Yes, she did sound cocky, and good for her. She's not afraid of a fight.






Red Dawn said:


> She gave a good speech.
> 
> I'm sure she's a smart and articulate women.  She has to be.   A woman has to be better than a man to get to the level of Governor, VP, or Prez.






Toro said:


> I think there's a danger for the Democrats in underestimating this woman.






Silence said:


> I thought going after Michelle was actually one of the low points.






Red Dawn said:


> A lot of liberals on here are being honest, and calling a good speech when they see one, regardless of party.






Silence said:


> and can I say how adorable Piper is!





Dirt McGirt said:


> The only problem is, she looks like she might be able to go toe to toe with Biden.






CA95380 said:


> I think Palin is one of us, here on the USMB board.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> Sponsoring a bill is not the same as writing a bill, my dear friend.



Interesting that you would say such a thing.. here ya go... Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know .. .your thinking.. how does he have all that time.. and run for president too...


----------



## Dirt McGirt

jsanders said:


> She cut city taxes and reformed the police department. That's more than ceremonial, in my opinion.



Oh plus she tried to reform the State patrol.....


----------



## Article 15

Ninja said:


> The fact that we are comparing the Dems' presidential nominee to the Repubs' veep nominee speaks volumes in of itself.



Hillary and then the Republican's made experience the issue ...


----------



## dilloduck

Modbert said:


> Not really since that's been what the Republicans have been targeting for everyone to do. They want everyone to compare Palin who may not have so much experience to Obama who they kept saying has little experience. I find it interesting if perhaps that's one of the reasons she was picked.



I find it interesting that she has so many strengths that no one is quite sure which one she was chosen for.
Whole package baby.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> She cut city taxes and reformed the police department. That's more than ceremonial, in my opinion.



Didnt she raise taxes on the oil companies?


----------



## Modbert

Dirt McGirt said:


> Oh plus she tried to reform the State patrol.....



Of course, what she accused her EX brother in law of doing didn't come out until her sister got a divorce from the man.

A little odd no?


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Interesting that you would say such a thing.. here ya go... Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I know .. .your thinking.. how does he have all that time.. and run for president too...



That's an easy one: he can't. Just look at his voting record since he began his campaign.

Look at his voting record when he was in the state senate. He couldn't even decide how to vote, so he just voted present. Presidents make decisions, not show up to meetings.


----------



## Jeepers

dilloduck said:


> I find it interesting that she has so many strengths that no one is quite sure which one she was chosen for.
> Whole package baby.



woo.. including lying, flip flopping, and being a crazy fundie.... check check and check..


----------



## Caligirl

jsanders said:


> She cut city taxes and reformed the police department. That's more than ceremonial, in my opinion.



Well, it will be interesting to see if her record on taxation, spending, and other economic issues is scrutinized a little more:



> During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%.
> 
> This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents. The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration werent enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> That's an easy one: he can't. Just look at his voting record since he began his campaign.
> 
> Look at his voting record when he was in the state senate. He couldn't even decide how to vote, so he just voted present. Presidents make decisions, not show up to meetings.


Really... do you want to go there cause Mac's been takin the cake with days off... in order to understand the present vote you have to understand its use in the Illinoise legislature.. but... you being a republican leaves doubt in my mind that you can actually understand anything...

I see you picked up your talking points from whitehouse.gov though... kudos...


----------



## Modbert

jsanders said:


> That's an easy one: he can't. Just look at his voting record since he began his campaign.
> 
> Look at his voting record when he was in the state senate. He couldn't even decide how to vote, so he just voted present. Presidents make decisions, not show up to meetings.



I don't know about that one. I always figured Dick Cheney and the rest of the cabinet discussed issues while little George was playing with blocks in the corner.

(After the drinking/Pretzel accident they don't allow him near "dangerous" foods and beverages anymore. So they give him apple juice instead.)

CBBC Newsround | WORLD | George Bush 'chokes on pretzel'

 - Public Enemy #1


----------



## dilloduck

Jeepers said:


> Really... do you want to go there cause Mac's been takin the cake with days off... in order to understand the present vote you have to understand its use in the Illinoise legislature.. but... you being a republican leaves doubt in my mind that you can actually understand anything...
> 
> I see you picked up your talking points from whitehouse.gov though... kudos...






> the Illinoise legislature



huh?  and just where do you think he happens to be ?


----------



## Silence

jsanders said:


> Yet, Bill was able to get up, and put differences aside, and show support for Obama, after Obama made equally vile remarks about his wife AND him. That's the difference between the Clintons and the Obamas. The Clintons can show human decency.



  sorry that's hysteical to me.  now Michelle shows no human decency?  

and no one believe that the Clinton's did what they did for any reason OTHER than Hillary's political future.  IF Obama wins she can get credit for helping unite the party.  IF Obama loses she's set herself up nicely for a run in 2012.


----------



## Jeepers

dilloduck said:


> huh?  and just where do you think he happens to be ?



Dont know.. I dont have his traveling plans in front of me... maybe at a holliday inn... 

On a side note...

wtf are you talking about..


----------



## Jeepers

Jeepers said:


> Dont know.. I dont have his traveling plans in front of me... maybe at a holliday inn...
> 
> On a side note...
> 
> wtf are you talking about..



Just got off my bat phone... Obama is at a skyline eating chilli in cinci...


----------



## dilloduck

Jeepers said:


> Just got off my bat phone... Obama is at a skyline eating chilli in cinci...



better than the Illinois legislature---


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Really... do you want to go there cause Mac's been takin the cake with days off... in order to understand the present vote you have to understand its use in the Illinoise legislature.. but... you being a republican leaves doubt in my mind that you can actually understand anything...
> 
> I see you picked up your talking points from whitehouse.gov though... kudos...



That you call me a Republican shows how little you actually know.


----------



## ronpaul2008

Excellent Speech. I expected her to blow it. The pressure was so much as this is her defining moment to make her first impression after the media so unfairly criticized her. Wow! She nailed it! I love how she took the media head on. The remark about Obama writing two memoirs yet no accomplishments was a slam(truth hurts!). And to mention all the different taxes he wants to raise and to call him out for his and his crowds contempt of gun-owning citizens and religious people. Thank you Sarah! I was going to vote independant but Palin may cause my vote to be republican this year. If only she was the presidential candidate. But with McCains age she very well could be. She represents America and Obama represents the marxist thought which infiltrated here from failed marxist nations.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> That you call me a Republican shows how little you actually know.



Well I'd call you a dipshit but as far as I know they dont have a party as of yet...

Now any more lies you need to be schooled on....


----------



## Jeepers

ronpaul2008 said:


> Excellent Speech. I expected her to blow it. The pressure was so much as this is her defining moment to make her first impression after the media so unfairly criticized her. Wow! She nailed it! I love how she took the media head on. The remark about Obama writing two memoirs yet no accomplishments was a slam(truth hurts!). And to mention all the different taxes he wants to raise and to call him out for his and his crowds contempt of gun-owning citizens and religious people. Thank you Sarah! I was going to vote independant but Palin may cause my vote to be republican this year. If only she was the presidential candidate. But with McCains age she very well could be. She represents America and Obama represents the marxist thought which infiltrated here from failed marxist nations.



You want a piece of this Nancy... read back a few posts. You'll find out that your a post late and an intelligent thought short... You wouldnt know a marxist if Ho chi men marched his little yellow ass up yours...


----------



## dilloduck

Jeepers said:


> Dont know.. I dont have his traveling plans in front of me... maybe at a holliday inn...
> 
> On a side note...
> 
> wtf are you talking about..



 how does his voting present mean a damn thing anywhere ?


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> Well I'd call you a dipshit but as far as I know they dont have a party as of yet...



They do, but they prefer the name "Democrats."


----------



## Jeepers

The actual number of Obama's "present" votes was 129 out of 4000 during his eight years in the Illinois Senate. Obama's campaign says anyone criticizing his "present" votes doesn't understand how this type of vote is used in the rough-and-tumble give-and-take of the Illinois legislature.


----------



## Ninja

"Several moderate-Democrat friends of mine have been emailing--few if any would ever vote for McCain--but all agree that Palin was very strong. The more liberal among them are a little panicked."

Focus Group: Palin Was (Alarmingly) Strong - The Stump


----------



## Jon

Jeepers said:


> The actual number of Obama's "present" votes was 129 out of 4000 during his eight years in the Illinois Senate. Obama's campaign says anyone criticizing his "present" votes doesn't understand how this type of vote is used in the rough-and-tumble give-and-take of the Illinois legislature.



What you mean is the Chicago political machine, known for its corruption and lack of reform.


----------



## Jeepers

jsanders said:


> What you mean is the Chicago political machine, known for its corruption and lack of reform.



Please elaborate and enlighten us all...


----------



## Jennifer.Bush

jsanders said:


> She did amazing. She showed knowledge of foreign policy in many aspects, she showed her knowledge of energy independence, she showed her understanding of working-class America, and she took great jabs at Barack Obama. Home run!


i loved it how she included the talk of  oil with other countires, just perfect


----------



## Avatar4321

Silence said:


> she did good.  I'm not surprised.  She seems like a bright, articulate woman.
> 
> They gave her a great speech and she nailed it.
> 
> It's too bad she's not the one running, even with her NRA/pro-life bullshit I'd be tempted to vote for her....if I weren't getting John McCain in the deal.



I understand how you feel. McCain isnt my favorate person. But if they win she is the face of the future of the Republican part. And I can swallow the bitter pill that is McCain to get her in that position.


----------



## Avatar4321

Toro said:


> I think there's a danger for the Democrats in underestimating this woman.
> 
> You don't become governor of a state and over-turn a corrupt good ole boys network without being tough.



Oh yeah... They are misunderestimating her big time


----------



## Shadow

Jeepers said:


> Probably not since my candidate studied and taught law...



MSNBC's Kieth Olbermann reported that the telepromter was not working correctly...so you would be wrong.


----------



## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> Hmm..
> 
> 
> 
> - Wikipedia
> 
> Sarah Palin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And of course..
> 
> Political Irony  Palin - ceremonial head of Wasilla AK
> 
> So to fix her statement:
> 
> "Having a ceremonial job as mayor is kinda like being a community organizer, except you don't make a difference." (Least a positive one anyway)


if it was only ceremonial, how is it she had the authority to hire and fire people?

again, dont trust wiki


----------



## DiveCon

Jeepers said:


> You want a piece of this Nancy... read back a few posts. You'll find out that your a post late and an intelligent thought short... You wouldnt know a marxist if *Ho Chi Minh* marched his little yellow ass up yours...


um, fixed

seems you dont either


----------



## chapstic

Shadow said:


> MSNBC's Kieth Olbermann reported that the telepromter was not working correctly...so you would be wrong.



keith the whore ripping on yo-bama?  i'd love to see that video.

maybe i don't follow your sarcasm?


----------



## 007

Silence said:


> she did good.  I'm not surprised.  She seems like a bright, articulate woman.
> 
> They gave her a great speech and she nailed it.
> 
> It's too bad she's not the one running, even with her NRA/pro-life bullshit I'd be tempted to vote for her....if I weren't getting John McCain in the deal.



"They" didn't give her anything... that speech was ALL HERS... she OWNED that. It's too bad you have such a problem with the second amendment of our constitution, and wanting to MURDER the unborn.

I'd suggest you search your soul and America's history, and you just might find yourself voting for McCain/Palin after all.


----------



## Silence

Pale Rider said:


> "They" didn't give her anything... that speech was ALL HERS... she OWNED that.



did she WRITE that speech?  NO she did NOT.  The republican speech writers prepared it for her. Did she "own" it as you say?  I'd say yes she did.  She delivered it like a pro.



> It's too bad you have such a problem with the second amendment of our constitution, and wanting to MURDER the unborn.



    this is the most partisan idiotic thing I've probably ever had said directly to me during this entire debate.  



> I'd suggest you search your soul and America's history, and you just might find yourself voting for McCain/Palin after all.



search my soul?  and America's history?  If I do that then I find myself even more turned off by McCain and Palin.  

History has shown us that with a Republican in the White House our economy is weaker and the middle class suffers.  

We've given the Republicans the last 8 years and it's time to stop giving them opportunities to fuck us.  

Palin IS a star of the future in the Republican party.  I think she has a very good shot at being the candidate they put up against Obama in 2012 when he runs for re-election, it's too bad that this country will be back on track and she'll lose then too.


----------



## rayboyusmc

The speech was written for her.

She is a good speaker.  Not great by a long shot.  Next to Mumbles McCain she looks better than she is.

As for quality of speakers in our time:  Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton, Obama.

All of these range from great to very good.

Will they now call her an empty pant suit because she did okay as a speaker?

What fukking hypocrisy.  Reagan was the great communicator.  But Obama can only speak.  Nothing to do with the fact that McCain sucks and they have no issues.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Red Dawn said:


> Hate to break it to you, but she didn't write those words.  McCain's speech writers wrote it for her.



and Obama's speech writers write for him and Biden's speech writers write for him as every president's speech writers wrote for them so what's your point?

Are you really so naive that you think pols actually write their own speeches?  Speeches are written by committee and tested by focus groups and then rehearsed.  Have you noticed that BHO can't talk when asked a question he didn't know was coming?  

A real wizard of uuuhhhhhs he is.


----------



## SwingVoter

Skull Pilot said:


> Have you noticed that BHO can't talk when asked a question he didn't know was coming?
> 
> A real wizard of uuuhhhhhs he is.




Obama's speaking style is not that different from W's.   He's certainly nowhere near the speaker Bill Clinton was.


----------



## Skull Pilot

SwingVoter said:


> Obama's speaking style is not that different from W's.   He's certainly nowhere near the speaker Bill Clinton was.



And GW is not considered to even be in the same league as BHO when intelligence and eloquence is concerned but they have the same speaking style?

Is some of the lipstick rubbing off the pig?


----------



## editec

Great speech.

Not a word about the middle class, Afghanistan, Pakistan.

Very stirring.  Empty, completely devoid of substance, but inspiring for those who aren't paying attention.


----------



## Silence

Skull Pilot said:


> and Obama's speech writers write for him and Biden's speech writers write for him as every president's speech writers wrote for them so what's your point?
> 
> Are you really so naive that you think pols actually write their own speeches?  Speeches are written by committee and tested by focus groups and then rehearsed.  Have you noticed that BHO can't talk when asked a question he didn't know was coming?



ummm actually Obama writes his own speechs 

How Obama Writes His Speeches - TIME

nice try though


----------



## Skull Pilot

Silence said:


> ummm actually Obama writes his own speechs
> 
> How Obama Writes His Speeches - TIME
> 
> nice try though



so he says.  Don't believe it.


hey I've got some swamp land in Florida, you can get it for a steal and make millions....or perhaps you'd be interested in a bridge?


----------



## sealybobo

Silence said:


> she did good.  I'm not surprised.  She seems like a bright, articulate woman.
> 
> They gave her a great speech and she nailed it.
> 
> It's too bad she's not the one running, even with her NRA/pro-life bullshit I'd be tempted to vote for her....if I weren't getting John McCain in the deal.



I thought the Republicans cares about America.  How much do you care about her if you are willing to succeed?  

Sarah Palin's ties to Alaskan Independence Party are played down



Tonight, Sarah Palin will be nominated as the Republican Party's choice for vice president of the United States.

But back home, she has cheered the work of a tiny party that long has pushed for a statewide vote on whether Alaska should secede from those same United States. And her husband, Todd, was a member of the party for seven years.



"Keep up the good work," Sarah Palin told members of the Alaskan Independence Party in a videotaped speech to their convention six months ago in Fairbanks. She wished the party luck on what she called its "inspiring convention."

The Alaskan Independence Party, founded in 1978, initially promoted "the Alaskan independence movement." But now, according to its website, "its primary goal is merely a vote on secession."

McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds said Tuesday that Palin did not support splitting Alaska off from the rest of the country. He sidestepped the question of whether she favored a statewide vote on secession.


----------



## Silence

Skull Pilot said:


> so he says.  Don't believe it.
> 
> 
> hey I've got some swamp land in Florida, you can get it for a steal and make millions....or perhaps you'd be interested in a bridge?




then what the fuck is the point of even debating anything with you?  you said he doesn't write his speeches, I find you evidence that he does and you just say "i don't believe it"?  

I find it pathetic how you and others like you summarily dismiss EVERYTHING positive about Obama and yet you want us to ignore all the things coming out about Palin?  

what a crock of shit


----------



## Skull Pilot

Silence said:


> then what the fuck is the point of even debating anything with you?  you said he doesn't write his speeches, I find you evidence that he does and you just say "i don't believe it"?
> 
> I find it pathetic how you and others like you summarily dismiss EVERYTHING positive about Obama and yet you want us to ignore all the things coming out about Palin?
> 
> what a crock of shit



you have an article in TIME that "says" he does. that is not proof.  Proof would be an unbiased observer watching him write a speech and then confirming that the same exact speech was given at some point in time with no other input from any one else.

That is proof.


----------



## DiamondDave

editec said:


> Great speech.
> 
> Not a word about the middle class, Afghanistan, Pakistan.
> 
> Very stirring.  Empty, completely devoid of substance, but inspiring for those who aren't paying attention.




Umm.... did not expect her to get into the policy specifics as deep.. that is McCain's job...

She did very well in firing the arrows back at those firing them at her... showing she is not going to be a push over to the media bias, the left-wing loonies and their senseless attacks, etc

Highlighted that she is not inexperienced... she is not 20 year vet of governmental experience, but she has more than Obama and in actual leadership and responsibility....

Very good speech... but now needs to get on the issues for when her debate against Biden comes around... if she stays on track and keeps her attitude, diligence, and style, she'll destroy him


----------



## editec

DiamondDave said:


> ..but now needs to get on the issues for when her debate against Biden comes around... if she stays on track and keeps her attitude, diligence, and style, she'll destroy him


 
I'm looking forward to those debates, too.

I only hope they actually debate something, and don't do what they usually do, which is to not answer questions and instead use every question as an apportunity to spew talkinga points.

And that complaint is directed at members of both parties BTW.


----------



## sealybobo

DiamondDave said:


> Umm.... did not expect her to get into the policy specifics as deep.. that is McCain's job...
> 
> She did very well in firing the arrows back at those firing them at her... showing she is not going to be a push over to the media bias, the left-wing loonies and their senseless attacks, etc
> 
> Highlighted that she is not inexperienced... she is not 20 year vet of governmental experience, but she has more than Obama and in actual leadership and responsibility....
> 
> Very good speech... but now needs to get on the issues for when her debate against Biden comes around... if she stays on track and keeps her attitude, diligence, and style, she'll destroy him




Well he's not doing a very good job of being specific.

PS.  How do you feel about Palin wanting to succeed from the Union?


----------



## MartaK

Now how come Palin can mock and insult Obama and Biden all she wants but if they do it in return, they are labeled "sexist?" They are using Palin as a "human shield" against all criticism of the GOP ticket. All I heard last night was hatred, divisiveness, and disrespect. This is UNITED States of America., not GOP States of America.

And she didn't say ANYTHING about how she and McCain plan to fix the very real crisis in America with the economy, energy, the war, education, healthcare. I didn't hear any solutions, just attacks of her opponents.
She also lied about her past experience and Obama's tax plan, AND his history in the Senate(s) (state and national)
THIS is a rising star? THIS is incredible?
What a sad statement about our country.


----------



## DiamondDave

editec said:


> I'm looking forward to those debates, too.
> 
> I only hope they actually debate something, and don't do what they usually do, which is to not answer questions and instead use every question as an apportunity to spew talkinga points.
> 
> And that complaint is directed at members of both parties BTW.



Agreed.. we have seen do many diversions when asked questions... I too hope that is not the case this time


----------



## busara

Skull Pilot said:


> you have an article in TIME that "says" he does. that is not proof.  Proof would be an unbiased observer watching him write a speech and then confirming that the same exact speech was given at some point in time with no other input from any one else.
> 
> That is proof.



Silence wrote 'evidence,' not proof. there is a difference. and yes, an article in an internationally distributed magazine is considered evidence


----------



## DiamondDave

sealybobo said:


> Well he's not doing a very good job of being specific.
> 
> PS.  How do you feel about Palin wanting to succeed from the Union?



Yawn...

stop the baseless trolling and come in with something substantive for once


----------



## jillian

DiamondDave said:


> Yawn...
> 
> stop the baseless trolling and come in with something substantive for once



perhaps, YET again, you should leave those judgments to staff. 

And how do you feel about Palin belonging to a group that wants Alaska to secede from the Union?


----------



## SwingVoter

MartaK said:


> They are using Palin as a "human shield" against all criticism of the GOP ticket. All I heard last night was hatred, divisiveness, and disrespect. This is UNITED States of America., not GOP States of America



wow, Obama supporters really are grabbing for straws this morning


----------



## Dr Grump

SwingVoter said:


> wow, Obama supporters really are grabbing for straws this morning



I know. Luckily McCain supporters aren't stooping to calling Obama "Hussein", a "Muslim" or an illegal alien....


----------



## DiamondDave

jillian said:


> perhaps, YET again, you should leave those judgments to staff.
> 
> And how do you feel about Palin belonging to a group that wants Alaska to secede from the Union?



And if the Black Panthers say Obama was a member of their group, with no proof, and no history of any personal actions that lead to the conclusion that this could be true.. you would accept that as accurate

This is more baseless hogwash... horseshit... bullshit... and radical slander.... but no wonder the uber-lefties in here cling to it like a hemorrhoid on a stressed obese person's ass


----------



## sealybobo

DiamondDave said:


> Yawn...
> 
> stop the baseless trolling and come in with something substantive for once



Yesterday you neg repped me and said we did not lose the war in Iraq.  Well, we also didn't win it either.  Because no matter how long we stay or what we do, there will always be anti American forces in Iraq for us to fight.  So what was accomplished?  Chaney and Bush and their buddies got rich off US tax dollars.  So they may have won, but you and I did not.  We took it in the ass.

Winning means getting the fuck out of there.  When we leave, that's when we win.

So what happens when Mook Tada El Sadr becomes ruler of Iraq and he joins forces with Iran?  That's almost inevidable.  Will you consider that victory, stupid?

We got rid of Saddam.  The Iranians LOVED that move and the Saudi's HATED it.  So we helped our enemy.  Maybe that was an olive branch?  Please explain, with substance.


----------



## Dr Grump

DiamondDave said:


> And if the Black Panthers say Obama was a member of their group, with no proof, and no history of any personal actions that lead to the conclusion that this could be true.. you would accept that as accurate
> 
> This is more baseless hogwash... horseshit... bullshit... and radical slander.... but no wonder the uber-lefties in here cling to it like a hemorrhoid on a stressed obese person's ass



You don't help your argument by being on the board for five minutes and calling anybody who disagrees with you a troll. If you want an ounce of credibility argue the facts. If not, suck it up and stop whining...


----------



## glockmail

jillian said:


> .....
> And how do you feel about Palin belonging to a group that wants Alaska to secede from the Union?


That's a fucking lie Jill.


----------



## DiamondDave

sealybobo said:


> Yesterday you neg repped me and said we did not lose the war in Iraq.  Well, we also didn't win it either.  Because no matter how long we stay or what we do, there will always be anti American forces in Iraq for us to fight.  So what was accomplished?  Chaney and Bush and their buddies got rich off US tax dollars.  So they may have won, but you and I did not.  We took it in the ass.
> 
> Winning means getting the fuck out of there.  When we leave, that's when we win.
> 
> So what happens when Mook Tada El Sadr becomes ruler of Iraq and he joins forces with Iran?  That's almost inevidable.  Will you consider that victory, stupid?
> 
> We got rid of Saddam.  The Iranians LOVED that move and the Saudi's HATED it.  So we helped our enemy.  Maybe that was an olive branch?  Please explain, with substance.



Diversion... because, once again, you have nothing but baseless slogan troll talking points


----------



## DiamondDave

Dr Grump said:


> You don't help your argument by being on the board for five minutes and calling anybody who disagrees with you a troll. If you want an ounce of credibility argue the facts. If not, suck it up and stop whining...



I've admin'd and been a long time member of a couple of boards long enough to know what a troll is... and I'll call a troll a troll

I do not call everyone who disagrees with me a troll... but I will stand up and flat out say that bobo the clown and Kirk trolls, for it is what they do and what they are

I have argued the facts... and I have argued stance.. and I have argued logic.... but when faced with the trolling absurdity of ones like that, you simply call it out for what it is... just as I call out the trolls on the other side of the fence as well


----------



## Dr Grump

glockmail said:


> That's a fucking lie Jill.



Nice shoes Glock.

Well, not so much a lie, more like, her hubby belonged.  Still, her sympathies were there......


THAT ASIDE FOLKS, LET'S LOOK AT THE ISSUES.

What does Trailer Trash Palin stand for? (rhetorical). What is her experience (again rhetorical).

Think about it. January 31 2009, President John McCain drops dead. Then what. 

"Er, excuse me Madam President, what about the situation with the Pushtan tribes in Pakistan supporting the Taliban?"

"Um, give em snowshoes?"

"What about the Nuclear warheads stationed on Georgia's border?"

"South Carolina is pointing nukes at Atlanta? Call out the national guard..."

You right-wing whack jobs have no idea. All you give a shit about is god, guns and old glory....


----------



## Dr Grump

DiamondDave said:


> I've admin'd and been a long time member of a couple of boards long enough to know what a troll is... and I'll call a troll a troll
> 
> I do not call everyone who disagrees with me a troll... but I will stand up and flat out say that bobo the clown and Kirk trolls, for it is what they do and what they are
> 
> I have argued the facts... and I have argued stance.. and I have argued logic.... but when faced with the trolling absurdity of ones like that, you simply call it out for what it is... just as I call out the trolls on the other side of the fence as well



Fair enough


----------



## DiamondDave

try actually posting some substance then... instead of this crap -REP


----------



## sealybobo

glockmail said:


> That's a fucking lie Jill.



Sarah Palin's ties to Alaskan Independence Party are played down



Tonight, Sarah Palin will be nominated as the Republican Party's choice for vice president of the United States.

But back home, she has cheered the work of a tiny party that long has pushed for a statewide vote on whether Alaska should secede from those same United States. And her husband, Todd, was a member of the party for seven years.



"Keep up the good work," Sarah Palin told members of the Alaskan Independence Party in a videotaped speech to their convention six months ago in Fairbanks. She wished the party luck on what she called its "inspiring convention."

The Alaskan Independence Party, founded in 1978, initially promoted "the Alaskan independence movement." But now, according to its website, "its primary goal is merely a vote on secession."

McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds said Tuesday that Palin did not support splitting Alaska off from the rest of the country. He sidestepped the question of whether she favored a statewide vote on secession.


----------



## MartaK

*Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention
*
By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press WriterWed Sep 3, 11:48 PM ET

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

*THE FACTS:* As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform  not even in the state senate."

*THE FACTS:* Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

*THE FACTS:* The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

*THE FACTS:* McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state  by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

*THE FACTS:* (This is a good one!!!!  LOL!!!) While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

*THE FACTS:* A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right  change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington  throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

*THE FACTS:* A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.
Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention - 09/03/2008 - MiamiHerald.com


----------



## DiamondDave

Palin's husband was member of third party - Yahoo! News

Your selective information continues, troll

Even Obama objected to this crapola


----------



## Silence

Skull Pilot said:


> you have an article in TIME that "says" he does. that is not proof.  Proof would be an unbiased observer watching him write a speech and then confirming that the same exact speech was given at some point in time with no other input from any one else.
> 
> That is proof.



show now TIME is a bias source?  I guess anyone who says ANYTHING remotely positive about Obama is bias.  you're a jackass 




> Originally Posted by DiamondDave
> And if the Black Panthers say Obama was a member of their group, with no proof, and no history of any personal actions that lead to the conclusion that this could be true.. you would accept that as accurate



Well I'd be interested in how Obama could've been a black panther when the Black Panther Party collapsed in the early 1970s.  Do you suppose they could claim a small child was a member?   

Palin spoke at the AIP convention.  She said they were doing good work.  Now she may not have been a member but she certainly was showing her support for them in the video I saw. 

your continued idiotic rhetoric and baseless bullshit in order to deflect away from issues that are current, while entertaining, is becoming tiresome.


----------



## sealybobo

DiamondDave said:


> Palin's husband was member of third party - Yahoo! News
> 
> Your selective information continues, troll
> 
> Even Obama objected to this crapola



Keep up the good work," Sarah Palin told members of the Alaskan Independence Party in a videotaped speech to their convention six months ago in Fairbanks. She wished the party luck on what she called its "inspiring convention."

Sarah Palin's ties to Alaskan Independence Party are played down - Los Angeles Times

Can't deny the video retard.


----------



## sealybobo

DiamondDave said:


> Palin's husband was member of third party - Yahoo! News
> 
> Your selective information continues, troll
> 
> Even Obama objected to this crapola



Oh, so it is her husband that hates America?  I guess we can call it even on Michelle Obama then.  Oh, don't forget that McCain didn't really love America until he was deprived of her as a POW.  That would be 30 years before he was proud of or loved America.

I hate to play these stupid games Dave, but this is how the GOP works.  You throw out there that Obama is anti American, and we can PROVE your candidates don't give a fuck about anything other than the top 1%.

They are playing you fool.


----------



## glockmail

> THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. ....


 This is called "income redistribution", a socialist policy.


----------



## AllieBaba

Jeepers said:


> No.. it was obvious.. christ man... she kept reading fast then pausing...



She was pausing to let the applause die down, so she wouldn't have to shout.


----------



## SwingVoter

glockmail said:


> This is called "income redistribution", a socialist policy.



also Brookings is not an objective source, they're a Dem think tank

I know most journalists and many political analysts are bad at math, all anyone really needs to do is look at his actual proposals, because for a lot of middle income taxpayers they'll be impacted a lot more by changes to exemptions and deductions than small shifts in marginal tax rates


----------



## DiamondDave

sealybobo said:


> Oh, so it is her husband that hates America?  I guess we can call it even on Michelle Obama then.  Oh, don't forget that McCain didn't really love America until he was deprived of her as a POW.  That would be 30 years before he was proud of or loved America.
> 
> I hate to play these stupid games Dave, but this is how the GOP works.  You throw out there that Obama is anti American, and we can PROVE your candidates don't give a fuck about anything other than the top 1%.
> 
> They are playing you fool.




Again.. why don't you look at all the information.. and not just the selective pieces that fit your pre-conceived, left-wing agenda?


----------



## AllieBaba

sealybobo said:


> Oh, so it is her husband that hates America?  I guess we can call it even on Michelle Obama then.  Oh, don't forget that McCain didn't really love America until he was deprived of her as a POW.  That would be 30 years before he was proud of or loved America.
> 
> I hate to play these stupid games Dave, but this is how the GOP works.  You throw out there that Obama is anti American, and we can PROVE your candidates don't give a fuck about anything other than the top 1%.
> 
> They are playing you fool.



Yeah, that explains the 80 percent approval rating in ALASKA where 80 percent of the population is in the top 1 percent.

I love watching death twitches of lefties who know their candidate is doomed. I knew Palin would be great, and she was.

I can't wait for the debates.


----------



## glockmail

sealybobo said:


> Oh, so it is her husband that hates America?  ....
> 
> They are playing you fool.





> has been brought to our attention that there is a COUNTERFEIT SITE now up on the net. This site is a FRAUD and has infringed our copy write. We are presently seeking legal recourse.
> 
> Contrary to initial reports, Vice-President candidate Governor Sarah Palin was never a member of our party. We stand corrected. We issued a press release today. It is posted here to those members of the media who did not recieve it.
> 
> Todd Palin was registered as a member but never participated in any party activities aside from attending a convention in 1994.


 Alaskan Independence Party

Who got played?


----------



## sealybobo

glockmail said:


> This is called "income redistribution", a socialist policy.



What is it called when the rich take from the middle class so they can make more money?

I think it would be called "income redistribution".

We are just distributing the money back to us, where it belongs.  America is great because of it's strong middle class.  Every country has a rich elite.


----------



## busara

glockmail said:


> This is called "income redistribution", a socialist policy.



and?

should i be terrified of getting a little more money?

howd you like those bush tax rebates?


----------



## sealybobo

glockmail said:


> Alaskan Independence Party
> 
> Who got played?



Oh I believe that.  

What about her pastor problem too?

I love how you forgive her and John of everything.  Little devils.


----------



## glockmail

> Platform
> We pledge to exert our best efforts to accomplish the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.
> 2. To support and defend States' Rights, Individual Rights, Property Rights, and the Equal Footing Doctrine as guaranteed by the constitutions of the United States of America and the state of Alaska.
> 3. To advocate the convening of a State Constitutional Convention at the constitutionally designated 10 year interval.
> 4. To reinforce the unalienable rights endowed by our Creator to Alaska law, by eliminating the use of the word "privilege" in the Alaska statutes.
> 5. To amend the Constitution of the State of Alaska so as to re-establish the rights of all Alaskan residents to entry upon all public lands within the state, and to acquire private property interest there in, under fair and reasonable conditions. Such property interest shall include surface and sub-surface patent.
> 6. To foster a constitutional amendment abolishing and prohibiting all property taxes.
> 7. To seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution.
> 8. To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature.
> 9. To preserve and protect the Alaska Permanent Fund, Permanent fund earnings, earnings reserve fund and individual Permanent Fund Dividends.
> 10. To provide for the direct popular election of the attorney general, all judges, and magistrates.
> 11. To provide for the development of unrestricted, statewide, surface transportation and utility corridors as needed by the public or any individual.
> 12. To affirm and assert every possible right-of-way established under R.S. 2477 of July 26, 1866, before its repeal by the Federal Land Management Policy Act of October 21, 1976.
> 13. To support the right of the individual to keep and bear arms.
> 14. To support the complete abolition of the concept of sovereign or governmental immunity, so as to restore accountability for public servants.
> 15. To support the rights of parents to privately or home school their children.
> 16. To support the privatization of government services.
> 17. To oppose the borrowing of money by government for any purposes other than for capital improvements.
> 18. To strengthen the traditional family and support individual accountability without government interference or regulation.
> 19. To support the right of jurors to judge the law as well as the facts, according to their conscience.
> 20. To support "Jobs for Alaskans...First!"


 Looks like I'd join in a heart beat!


----------



## sealybobo

DiamondDave said:


> Again.. why don't you look at all the information.. and not just the selective pieces that fit your pre-conceived, left-wing agenda?



What information did I miss?  I know, now they say they don't actually want to succeed, they just want to take a vote on it.

Let's take a vote.  Who thinks Alaska leaving the United States and becoming their own country is good for America?


----------



## glockmail

sealybobo said:


> What is it called when the rich take from the middle class so they can make more money?
> 
> I think it would be called "income redistribution".
> 
> We are just distributing the money back to us, where it belongs.  America is great because of it's strong middle class.  Every country has a rich elite.


Only a liberal would say that any attempt to flatten the progressive tax code is unfair.


----------



## glockmail

sealybobo said:


> Oh I believe that.
> 
> What about her pastor problem too?
> 
> I love how you forgive her and John of everything.  Little devils.


 Nice deflection. You get *stuffed *on one issue so you bring up another.


----------



## Chris

glockmail said:


> This is called "income redistribution", a socialist policy.



Bush borrowed $700 billion dollars from China to fund the invasion of Iraq.

This is called "income redistribution" to Communist China.


----------



## glockmail

busara said:


> and?
> 
> should i be terrified of getting a little more money?
> 
> howd you like those bush tax rebates?


 Why not vote yourself exempt from taxation and tax the hell out of everyone else? That's basically whet you're promoting.


----------



## sealybobo

glockmail said:


> Why not vote yourself exempt from taxation and tax the hell out of everyone else? That's basically whet you're promoting.



Sarah Palins chief qualification for being elected governor of Alaska was that she was not Frank Murkowski.

He was at a low point when he took out ads saying Maybe I should consider a personality transplant, but his presence in the 2006 GOP primary helped her capture the nomination and go on to beat Tony Knowles.

She did not win because of her conservative credentials, her grasp of policy details or because of her track record as the mayor of Wasilla, an office she won in 1996 by collecting 617 votes.


----------



## Chris

glockmail said:


> Why not vote yourself exempt from taxation and tax the hell out of everyone else? That's basically whet you're promoting.



Tax the rich and the oil companies and reduce taxes for the middle class.

Sounds like a GREAT plan to me.


----------



## glockmail

Kirk said:


> Bush borrowed $700 billion dollars from China to fund the invasion of Iraq.
> 
> This is called "income redistribution" to Communist China.


Nice try Kirkster, but you're fucked up as usual. Countries have entailed debt to fund wars throughout modern history.


----------



## glockmail

sealybobo said:


> Sarah Palins chief qualification for being elected governor of Alaska was that she was not Frank Murkowski......


  This assumes that there was no Democrat candidate for governor. Its also proven wrong since she's the most popular in all 50 States.


----------



## sealybobo

glockmail said:


> Nice try Kirkster, but you're fucked up as usual. Countries have entailed debt to fund wars throughout modern history.



The US has never cut taxes during a time of war.  Even McCain said that was wrong, before he flip flopped.


----------



## AllieBaba

sealybobo said:


> Sarah Palins chief qualification for being elected governor of Alaska was that she was not Frank Murkowski.
> 
> He was at a low point when he took out ads saying Maybe I should consider a personality transplant, but his presence in the 2006 GOP primary helped her capture the nomination and go on to beat Tony Knowles.
> 
> She did not win because of her conservative credentials, her grasp of policy details or because of her track record as the mayor of Wasilla, an office she won in 1996 by collecting 617 votes.



80 percent approval rating says you're full of shit.


----------



## glockmail

Kirk said:


> Tax the rich and the oil companies and reduce taxes for the middle class.
> 
> Sounds like a GREAT plan to me.


 How will that effect the national economy, Kirk?


----------



## glockmail

sealybobo said:


> The US has never cut taxes during a time of war.  ...


 The tax cuts were done before the war, idiot.


----------



## sealybobo

glockmail said:


> How will that effect the national economy, Kirk?



The country will be able to pay their bills, the value of the dollar will go back up, consumer confidence will rise, ceo's will have to only make $5 million a year instead of $10 million, 401k's will do better, inflation will improve and the rich will remain rich?


----------



## glockmail

sealybobo said:


> The country will be able to pay their bills, the value of the dollar will go back up, consumer confidence will rise, ceo's will have to only make $5 million a year instead of $10 million, 401k's will do better, inflation will improve and the rich will remain rich?


 That's the standard liberal mantra, yes. Now what?


----------



## Chris

glockmail said:


> Nice try Kirkster, but you're fucked up as usual. Countries have entailed debt to fund wars throughout modern history.



Bush and Reagan are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.

Guess who has to pay that debt?

You and me!


----------



## busara

glockmail said:


> Why not vote yourself exempt from taxation and tax the hell out of everyone else? That's basically whet you're promoting.



no, that is an extreme example and a lot different than the average worker paying less in taxes. youre trying to scare people into letting the ultra rich stay rich. the housing market has crumbled, but not the market for luxury houses. hmmm, wonder why that is?


----------



## AllieBaba

_Kirk said:
"Bush and Reagan are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.

Guess who has to pay that debt?

You and me!"_

Provide a link to back that idiotic statement up, asswad.

Oh, I forgot. It's Kirk. He can't count, he just pulls random numbers out of his ass and flings them across the board then runs and hides like the lying wuss he knows he is...


----------



## busara

AllieBaba said:


> _Kirk said:
> "Bush and Reagan are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.
> 
> Guess who has to pay that debt?
> 
> You and me!"_
> 
> Provide a link to back that idiotic statement up, asswad.
> 
> Oh, I forgot. It's Kirk. He can't count, he just pulls random numbers out of his ass and flings them across the board then runs and hides like the lying wuss he knows he is...



i wouldnt say theyre responsible, but they were the president during these times of massive deficit runups

Increases in the National Debt Chart


----------



## DiamondDave

AllieBaba said:


> _Kirk said:
> "Bush and Reagan are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.
> 
> Guess who has to pay that debt?
> 
> You and me!"_
> 
> Provide a link to back that idiotic statement up, asswad.
> 
> Oh, I forgot. It's Kirk. He can't count, he just pulls random numbers out of his ass and flings them across the board then runs and hides like the lying wuss he knows he is...



no... he'll pull out the absurd reaganbushdebt.org website which is fully blown out of the water by the actual numbers and debt statistics from the fed itself


----------



## glockmail

Kirk said:


> Bush and Reagan are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.
> 
> ...


 Prove it. Then address the previous issue instead of deflecting.


----------



## Chris

DiamondDave said:


> no... he'll pull out the absurd reaganbushdebt.org website which is fully blown out of the water by the actual numbers and debt statistics from the fed itself




Here are the links to the treasury website.

ReaganBushDebt.org Calculation Details


----------



## glockmail

busara said:


> no, that is an extreme example and a lot different than the average worker paying less in taxes. youre trying to scare people into letting the ultra rich stay rich. the housing market has crumbled, but not the market for luxury houses. hmmm, wonder why that is?


1. Show me how taxing someone else at a higher rate is fair to the individual or beneficial to the economy.
2. Prove it.


----------



## AllieBaba

Palin strikes back at critics | The Sun |News|Columnists|Fergus Shanahan
"Democrats and their Lefty media backers had been sneering that she was a small town nobody, a hick from the Alaskan sticks put into a job way beyond an inexperienced woman. 

Believe me, you will not be hearing that again. 

Palin turned out to be an electrifying mix of intelligence, passion, energy, optimism and plain speaking. 

Full of self-assurance and aggression, she popped Barack's balloon big-time."

Every now and then the Brits are ok.


----------



## AllieBaba

Kirk said:


> Here are the links to the treasury website.
> 
> ReaganBushDebt.org Calculation Details



That's our national treasury website?

How strange it looks...almost like it was compiled by leftist kooks...and all the site names are a little off as well....


----------



## Silence

since some people prefer pretty pictures of stale words how about this







U.S. National Debt Graph

and another site for your enjoyment

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2006/pdf/hist.pdf

on page 5 on historical trends



> The traditional pattern of running large
> deficits only in times of war or economic
> downturns was broken during much of the
> 1980s. In 1982, partly in response to a
> recession, large tax cuts were enacted. However,
> these were accompanied by substantial
> increases in defense spending. Although reductions
> were made to nondefense spending,
> they were not sufficient to offset the impact
> on the deficit. As a result, deficits averaging
> $206 billion were incurred between 1983
> and 1992. These unprecedented peacetime
> deficits increased debt held by the public
> from $789 billion in 1981 to $3.0 trillion
> (48.1% of GDP) in 1992.
> After peaking at $290 billion in 1992,
> deficits declined each year, dropping to a
> level of $22 billion in 1997. In 1998, the
> Nation recorded its first budget surplus ($69.2
> billion) since 1969.



oh I especially like this part:



> As a percent of GDP,
> the budget bottom line went from a deficit
> of 4.7% in 1992 to a surplus of 0.8% in
> 1998,* increasing to a 2.4% surplus in 2000*.




tell us again how Regean and Bush didn't run up the National Debt and how Clinton didn't leave Bush with a budget surplus.  The white houses OWN website tells the tale.


----------



## AllieBaba

THat's what happens when you have to rebuild a country after it's left in a shambles by socialist nutjobs.


----------



## Chris

AllieBaba said:


> Palin strikes back at critics | The Sun |News|Columnists|Fergus Shanahan
> "Democrats and their Lefty media backers had been sneering that she was a small town nobody, a hick from the Alaskan sticks put into a job way beyond an inexperienced woman.
> 
> Believe me, you will not be hearing that again.
> 
> Palin turned out to be an electrifying mix of intelligence, passion, energy, optimism and plain speaking.
> 
> Full of self-assurance and aggression, she popped Barack's balloon big-time."
> 
> Every now and then the Brits are ok.



She tried to have books banned from the local library, and then tried to fire the librarian who wouldn't go along with her censorship. She is against abortion in the case of rape. She believe that creationism should be taught in public schools. She was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. She is under investigation for abuse of power and will be indicted on Oct. 31st. She has no national of international experience. A month ago she asked a reporter, "What does the vice president do?" She should never have been picked to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.


----------



## Chris

AllieBaba said:


> THat's what happens when you have to rebuild a country after it's left in a shambles by socialist nutjobs.



No, this is what happens when you elect tax cut and spend Republicans. 

You end up in debt to Communist China.


----------



## DiamondDave

Kirk said:


> Here are the links to the treasury website.
> 
> ReaganBushDebt.org Calculation Details



No... it is not

Nice try

It is spin... and twisting of the actual numbers....


----------



## Care4all

DiamondDave said:


> No... it is not
> 
> Nice try



how is this NOT a link from our treasury?  this is the link on kirk's link?

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999

it is a .gov....a dot gov link?


----------



## DiamondDave

Care4all said:


> how is this NOT a link from our treasury?  this is the link on kirk's link?
> 
> Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
> 
> it is a .gov....a dot gov link?



His link led to the spin page which had links to the treasury page.... the treasury page speaks for itself.... the biased spin on his page is quite evident....


----------



## Chris

Care4all said:


> how is this NOT a link from our treasury?  this is the link on kirk's link?
> 
> Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
> 
> it is a .gov....a dot gov link?



When is .gov link not a .gov link?

When it proves you wrong!


----------



## Silence

AllieBaba said:


> THat's what happens when you have to rebuild a country after it's left in a shambles by socialist nutjobs.



left in a shambles? Allie are you special ed?  

I provided a LINK to a document which lays out the FACTS!


----------



## Skull Pilot

busara said:


> Silence wrote 'evidence,' not proof. there is a difference. and yes, an article in an internationally distributed magazine is considered evidence



semantics


----------



## Skull Pilot

Silence said:


> show now TIME is a bias source?  I guess anyone who says ANYTHING remotely positive about Obama is bias.  you're a jackass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'd be interested in how Obama could've been a black panther when the Black Panther Party collapsed in the early 1970s.  Do you suppose they could claim a small child was a member?
> 
> Palin spoke at the AIP convention.  She said they were doing good work.  Now she may not have been a member but she certainly was showing her support for them in the video I saw.
> 
> your continued idiotic rhetoric and baseless bullshit in order to deflect away from issues that are current, while entertaining, is becoming tiresome.



i apologize for not blithely believing everything a politician says to a "news source"

gee I'd guess I'd be a lot happier if I just believed everything i was told.  You know especially since all politicians are so trustworthy.

Well riddle me this, Silence; If BHO writes all his own speeches, then why oh why would he have a head speech writer??

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/fashion/20speechwriter.html

*Mr. Favreau, the campaign&#8217;s 26-year-old head speechwriter*

Maybe YOU shouldn't believe everything you read in TIME


----------



## AllieBaba

My God, Time is one of the most biased sources in the universe.

I wouldn't wipe my ass with it.


----------



## Silence

see skull I won't dismiss yours as being a lie.

I think both can be true.  I think he has a professional speech writer AND I think he writes for himself too.  

Allie, that would take a lot of Time magazines since you're all ass


----------



## Skull Pilot

Silence said:


> ummm actually Obama writes his own speechs
> 
> How Obama Writes His Speeches - TIME
> 
> nice try though



I believe you posted this in an effort to prove me wrong. The little red faced emoticon signifies you think you got me

 Where do you mention that BHO has any of his speeches written by someone else?

But i guess it's OK to want it both ways.


----------



## AllieBaba

Obama has to have his speeches written for him because he is unable to intelligently discuss issues. Hence his avoidance of interviews and debates.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Obama has to have his speeches written for him because he is unable to intelligently discuss issues. Hence his avoidance of interviews and debates.



*yawn*

dont you have some Alaskan news articles to not comprehend?


----------



## jillian

DiamondDave said:


> And if the Black Panthers say Obama was a member of their group, with no proof, and no history of any personal actions that lead to the conclusion that this could be true.. you would accept that as accurate
> 
> This is more baseless hogwash... horseshit... bullshit... and radical slander.... but no wonder the uber-lefties in here cling to it like a hemorrhoid on a stressed obese person's ass



Nope... it's because loonies feel the need to bash Obama for an "association" with someone who did bad stuff 40 years ago... it doesn't even matter that the Black Panthers aren't claiming him. It doesn't matter that he was, what, 8 years old at the time.... still the right wing cesspool has tried to smear him with it.

I'll give you that my jury's still out on her membership, but Palin supposedly made statements praising the separatists. To be fair, I haven't watched the video because I can't access youtube at work. But if it says what it's supposed to, it's pretty damning and I'm thinking McCain made a pretty big mistake. Here's the video...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBRVbAO5cK4&feature=related[/ame]

He should have gone for Kaye Bailey Hutchinson like Peggy Noonan said.


----------



## Silence

Skull Pilot said:


> I believe you posted this in an effort to prove me wrong. The little red faced emoticon signifies you think you got me
> 
> Where do you mention that BHO has any of his speeches written by someone else?
> 
> But i guess it's OK to want it both ways.




 you're pretty funny.  

I said he writes speeches himself.  did I need to make a caveat indicating that I also thought he had a professional speech writer in his employ?  

I looked for a wink emotie but the red face one was all I could find.  

I can have it both ways because I think it's possible that Obama writes his own speeches as well as has a professional writer to supplement that effort.


----------



## DiveCon

sealybobo said:


> Oh I believe that.
> 
> What about her pastor problem too?
> 
> I love how you forgive her and John of everything. Little devils.


keep digging bobo


----------



## DiveCon

sealybobo said:


> Sarah Palins chief qualification for being elected governor of Alaska was that she was not Frank Murkowski.
> 
> He was at a low point when he took out ads saying Maybe I should consider a personality transplant, but his presence in the 2006 GOP primary helped her capture the nomination and go on to beat Tony Knowles.
> 
> She did not win because of her conservative credentials, her grasp of policy details or because of her track record as the mayor of Wasilla, an office she won in 1996 by collecting 617 votes.


Obama chief advantage for the democrat nomination was he wasnt Hillary Clinton


----------



## DiveCon

DiamondDave said:


> no... he'll pull out the absurd reaganbushdebt.org website which is fully blown out of the water by the actual numbers and debt statistics from the fed itself


 


Kirk said:


> Here are the links to the treasury website.
> 
> ReaganBushDebt.org Calculation Details


 

 right on schedule


----------



## DiveCon

Kirk said:


> When is .gov link not a .gov link?
> 
> When it proves you wrong!


when you didnt use that link
MORON


----------



## AllieBaba

Shogun said:


> *yawn*
> 
> dont you have some Alaskan news articles to not comprehend?



You've obviously never seen him debate.

Well, you aren't alone because after the last debacle, he avoids debates, and anything but carefully regulated friendly press, like the plague.

Can't wait to see O'Reilly shred him. He'll crawl home and cry for a week, and probably completely miss the election.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> Obama chief advantage for the democrat nomination was he wasnt Hillary Clinton



Actually, his chief advantage was that he inspired a good chunk of the electorate... like it or not.. disparage him or not... but THAT is the truth. And Hillary still would have won but for some converging factors which mostly hinged on her own presumption that she was entitled to the nomination.


----------



## jillian

Silence said:


> left in a shambles? Allie are you special ed?
> 
> I provided a LINK to a document which lays out the FACTS!



Don't confuse her with facts.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> when you didnt use that link
> MORON



Well, it's there now... if it wasn't then.

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999


----------



## glockmail

AllieBaba said:


> You've obviously never seen him debate.
> 
> Well, you aren't alone because after the last debacle, he avoids debates, and anything but carefully regulated friendly press, like the plague.
> 
> Can't wait to see O'Reilly shred him. He'll crawl home and cry for a week, and probably completely miss the election.


 That would be a hoot- O'Rielly v. O' Bama. I saw O'Rielly debate Paul Krugman on PBS one time and poor little Paul was starting to cry.


----------



## glockmail

DiamondDave said:


> no... he'll pull out the absurd reaganbushdebt.org website which is fully blown out of the water by the actual numbers and debt statistics from the fed itself


I'm amazed at this new Liberal tactic that has seemed to pop up in the last few months. *Make shit up out of thin air. *


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> Actually, his chief advantage was that he inspired a good chunk of the electorate... like it or not.. disparage him or not... but THAT is the truth. And Hillary still would have won but for some converging factors which mostly hinged on *her own presumption that she was entitled to the nomination*.


 that has a lot of truth to it, i wont disagree
that hurt her BIG time
but again, doesnt that really support what i said?


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> that has a lot of truth to it, i wont disagree
> that hurt her BIG time
> but again, doesnt that really support what i said?



I don't think so. I don't see it as an anti-Hillary vote. It was a vote for another candidate and Hillary allowed things to get away from her. There were a bunch of factors, but I think if a sense of entitlement hadn't gotten in the way, she could have circumvented it. 

I think she'd have made a brilliant president.


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> Well, it's there now... if it wasn't then.
> 
> Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999


well, i quoted his post, and its not in that quote
he maybe have finally edited his post and added it, but thats not what i was responding to


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> well, i quoted his post, and its not in that quote
> he maybe have finally edited his post and added it, but thats not what i was responding to



Well, I've been known to post and then had to go back to insert the link I meant to put in originally. So, maybe that's what happened. Either way, there's a .gov link there now.


----------



## AllieBaba

Silence said:


> left in a shambles? Allie are you special ed?
> 
> I provided a LINK to a document which lays out the FACTS!



Lol...you really are an idiot.

There's a DOCUMENT that proves Jimmy Carter didn't leave the US a mess? There's a DOCUMENT that proves all this ridiculous bs about the "debt" that comes from freaky websites, in different fonts of different colors...stuff which looks like the old ALF site, only less professional....

Somewhere in that garbage there's a DOCUMENT that proves all you have to say?


----------



## sealybobo

glockmail said:


> Nice deflection. You get *stuffed *on one issue so you bring up another.



Can't deny the video.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI]YouTube - Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party. Palin addresses AIP convention[/ame]

Now you deflect bitch!


----------



## Red Dawn

The Detroit Free Press held a voter focus group last night on the Palen speech.  The group was comprised on Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. 

Naturally the republicans loved her and the democrats didn't. 

More surprisingly, were the reactions of the Independent voters in the focus group:



> I was completely underwhelmed. She was a Republican novelty act with a sophomoric script. It was not even a speech I would expect for a someone running for the local PTA, much less for vice president.
> 
> -- George Lentz, 66, Southfield independent
> 
> Who is Sarah Palin? I'm sorry but I still don't know anymore about this young lady tonight than I did last night ... The way it looks to me, she's the Republican vice presidential nominee for one reason: because Hillary wasn't selected.
> 
> -- Mike Kosh, 38, West Bloomfield independent
> 
> "Sarah Palin is a self-described pitbull with lipstick. She spent little time helping Americans learn who she is. She is a cool, poised speaker, but her speech contained few statements about policy or the party platform.  I am not convinced that Palin's experience as a mayor or governor in Alaska meet the qualifications to be vice president much less one stroke or heart attack away from being commander in chief.
> 
> -- Ilene Beninson, 52, Berkley independent
> 
> Nothing worked for me. I found her barrage of snide remarksand distortions to be a major turn off. She is not a class act. The most important point she made is that she will be an effective attack dog.
> 
> -- Jan Wheelock, 58, Royal Oak independent
> 
> Sarah got as much applause as Hillary did, and had a friendly, appealing appearance.
> Her delivery style reminded me of a high school valedictorian who also might have been a cheerleader. I thought she would appear more professional, more stateswomanly. She's no match for Joe Biden.
> 
> -- Joellen Gilchrist, 64, Beverly Hills independent
> 
> http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080903/NEWS15/80904002




I thought she gave a good speech, in terms of delivery, and she proved herself and effective public speaker. 

I thought the harsh tone, and lack of any policy specifics of the speech, was designed to pump up the red meat base.   I don't know how this goes over with independents, and focus groups are a fairly poor sample from an empirical sense.  


But, the reaction of the independents in the focus group is pretty telling.


----------



## busara

AllieBaba said:


> Lol...you really are an idiot.
> 
> There's a DOCUMENT that proves Jimmy Carter didn't leave the US a mess? There's a DOCUMENT that proves all this ridiculous bs about the "debt" that comes from freaky websites, in different fonts of different colors...stuff which looks like the old ALF site, only less professional....
> 
> Somewhere in that garbage there's a DOCUMENT that proves all you have to say?



allie, how about you give an article to back up what youve said in this thread? you cant yell at others for giving insufficient proof when you dont back yourself up


----------



## Chris

AllieBaba said:


> Lol...you really are an idiot.
> 
> There's a DOCUMENT that proves Jimmy Carter didn't leave the US a mess? There's a DOCUMENT that proves all this ridiculous bs about the "debt" that comes from freaky websites, in different fonts of different colors...stuff which looks like the old ALF site, only less professional....
> 
> Somewhere in that garbage there's a DOCUMENT that proves all you have to say?



Of course you can't disprove it, because it's true. 

No wonder you're so confused.


----------



## Chris

glockmail said:


> That would be a hoot- O'Rielly v. O' Bama. I saw O'Rielly debate Paul Krugman on PBS one time and poor little Paul was starting to cry.



Bill OReilly's phone call....

O'Reilly then launched into a lengthy fantasy featuring a loofah mitt. 

"...you'd definitely get two wines in you, as quickly as I could get into you I would get 'em into you, maybe intravenously, get those glasses of wine into you," the complaint quotes O'Reilly as saying to Mackris. "You would basically be in the shower and then I would come in and you would have your back to me and I would take that loofah thing and kinda' soap up your back...rub it all over you, get you to relax, hot water...and um, you know, you'd feel the tension drain out of you and uh you would still be with your back to me then I would kinda' put my arm -- it's one of those mitts, those loofah mitts you know, so I got my hands in it...and I would put it around front, kinda' rub your tummy a little bit with it, and then with my other hand I would start to massage your boobs, get your nipples really hard...'cuz I like that and you have really spectacular boobs... 

"So anyway I'd be rubbing your big boobs and getting your nipples really hard, kinda' kissing your neck from behind...and then I would take the other hand with the falafel (sic) thing and I'd just put it on your pussy but you'd have to do it really light, just kind of a tease business..." 

"During the course of Defendant Bill O'Reilly's sexual rant, it became clear that he was using a vibrator upon himself, and that he ejaculated. Plaintiff was repulsed." 

The complaint then asserts that "immediately after climaxing," O'Reilly began boasting about how good he was during a recent appearance on "The Tonight Show." He allegedly concluded the phone call by saying, "You know Mackris, in these days of your celibacy and your hibernation this is good for you to have a little fantasy outlet...I'm trying to tell you, this is good for your mental health."


----------



## glockmail

sealybobo said:


> Can't deny the video.
> 
> YouTube - Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party. Palin addresses AIP convention
> 
> Now you deflect *bitch*!


 She never denied addressing the group. Back at at you sexist pig.


----------



## Ninja

Per Drudge:

37,244,000 WATCHED PALIN SPEECH ... [24,029,000 WATCHED BIDEN; 38,379,000 WATCHED OBAMA]... MORE...


----------



## Modbert

Kirk, I was about to post that too!

Guess I'm stuck with only being able to post this..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tJjNVVwRCY]YouTube - Bill O'Reilly Flips Out[/ame]

Bill really knows how to keep his cool.


----------



## Modbert

Ninja said:


> Per Drudge:
> 
> 37,244,000 WATCHED PALIN SPEECH ... [24,029,000 WATCHED BIDEN; 38,379,000 WATCHED OBAMA]... MORE...



And I won't be surprised if less then 30,000,000 watch McCain.


----------



## Ninja

Sour grapes, Robbie. 

You snorting permesan again?


----------



## jillian

Ninja said:


> Per Drudge:
> 
> 37,244,000 WATCHED PALIN SPEECH ... [24,029,000 WATCHED BIDEN; 38,379,000 WATCHED OBAMA]... MORE...



Does that surprise you? Doesn't surprise me. Everyone who has an interest in this kind of thing wanted to see if she could string two sentences together or if she was another Dan ("potatoe") Quayle.

She passed the Dan Quayle test... at least in terms of being able to read a speech off of a teleprompter. Now she'll have her baptism by fire.


----------



## Ninja

jillian said:


> She passed the Dan Quayle test... at least in terms of being able to read a speech off of a teleprompter. Now she'll have her baptism by fire.



Apparently Biden gave the same speech at a campaign appearance this morning 

I watched her gubernatorial debates. Unlike Barack Milhouse Obama, she's actually nimble on her feet and doesn't sound like a dipshit when there's no TelePrompTer


----------



## Modbert

Ninja said:


> Sour grapes, Robbie.
> 
> You snorting permesan again?



No and No.


----------



## AllieBaba

Obama who?


----------



## SwingVoter

jillian said:


> She passed the Dan Quayle test... .



which is why the attacks against her are starting to look so desperate

and it's ironic seeing that the Dems claimed throughout the Clinton years that character doesn't matter,  but now they want to criticize her over babies and state troopers, not fiscal policy or outlook on the war


----------



## Modbert

Ninja said:


> Apparently Biden gave the same speech at a campaign appearance this morning
> 
> I watched her gubernatorial debates. Unlike Barack Milhouse Obama, she's actually nimble on her feet and doesn't sound like a dipshit when there's no TelePrompTer



I'll hold judgement on that one until she debates Joe Biden. Until then, there is a huge difference between someone running for mayor in Alaska and a senator with 30+ years of experience.

And Obama doesn't sound like a dipshit.


----------



## Modbert

SwingVoter said:


> which is why the attacks against her are starting to look so desperate
> 
> and it's ironic seeing that the Dems claimed throughout the Clinton years that character doesn't matter,  but now they want to criticize her over babies and state troopers, not fiscal policy or outlook on the war



Just like it's ironic for the GOP that hunted Clinton like it was a mission on character issues. Now they want to criticize others for bringing up character issues, along with fiscal policy and outlook on the war.

See? It can be played both ways Swingvoter.

Besides, Sarah Palin doesn't have much of a focus on the war since she hasn't been focusing on it.


----------



## SwingVoter

Ninja said:


> Apparently Biden gave the same speech at a campaign appearance this morning



have to say Biden's been a good sport through all this, he seems far more capable of having adult disputes than his running mate, who has the same, narcisstic how-dare-you-criticize-me tendencies of Bill Clinton

Biden's also been more conservative and coherent on Pakistan than Bush, so I still think a good case can be made that the Dem ticket is stronger on foreign policy than the GOP one


----------



## glockmail

Kirk said:


> Bill OReilly's phone call........


Typical lib- deflection and attack with something that has ever been proven.


----------



## Modbert

glockmail said:


> Typical lib- deflection and attack with something that has ever been proven.



I don't know about you but when you have a whole huge wikipedia dedicated just to the amount of criticism alone I think there's a problem.

Criticism of Bill O'Reilly (commentator) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh and this makes it related to the topic if you like.



> O'Reilly criticized the news media for addressing the matter of Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin's seventeen year-old, unwed daughter's pregnancy. O'Reilly claimed it was a strictly private family matter and that Palin could not be responsible for her daughter's actions. The Atlanta Journal Constitution's Editorial page Editor Cynthia Tucker, Jon Stewart and the Huffington Post each noted that O'Reilly himself had several months earlier criticized another unwed pregnant teenager, Jamie Lynn Spears, labeling her a "pinhead" and calling her parents irresponsible.



So by "Papa Bear" standards, Bristol Palin is a "pinhead" and Sarah Palin and Todd Palin are irresponsible parents. I'm not saying these things, one of the largest voices of the GOP Media is practically saying it.

Doublethink..Doublethink..Doublethink


----------



## SwingVoter

Modbert said:


> Besides, Sarah Palin doesn't have much of a focus on the war since she hasn't been focusing on it.



But like Biden, she's got a son who will be fighting in it.

Great that both VP candidates aren't hypocrites on this, but I would like more discussion on how we assess security risks.   We're spending a lot of money in Korea, Germany, and Iraq to fight, protect, and establish governments at the same time that nat'l security analysts are saying the major threat is from terrorist groups, not individual nations.


----------



## AllieBaba

Modbert said:


> Just like it's ironic for the GOP that hunted Clinton like it was a mission on character issues. Now they want to criticize others for bringing up character issues, along with fiscal policy and outlook on the war.
> 
> See? It can be played both ways Swingvoter.
> 
> Besides, Sarah Palin doesn't have much of a focus on the war since she hasn't been focusing on it.



Clinton lied under oath during a sexual harassment trial, about events which related directly to the accusations made against him by Paula Jones.

Sarah Palin opted not to abort her Down's syndrome child, and did not pressure her 17 year old pregnant daughter to abort.

Oh, I can see how those two things are both so alike.


----------



## glockmail

Modbert said:


> I don't know about you but when you have a whole huge wikipedia dedicated just to the amount of criticism alone I think there's a problem...


 So what? All that proves is that lots of people hate O'Reilly. Especailly libs like Paul Krugman. I'm not here to defend him. He's a big boy and can do that himself. Call up his radio show if you don't believe that.


----------



## Modbert

SwingVoter said:


> But like Biden, she's got a son who will be fighting in it.
> 
> Great that both VP candidates aren't hypocrites on this, but I would like more discussion on how we assess security risks.   We're spending a lot of money in Korea, Germany, and Iraq to fight, protect, and establish governments at the same time that nat'l security analysts are saying the major threat is from terrorist groups, not individual nations.



Of course, though I'm pretty sure in Germany is where we have our prisons for terrorist prisoners and the like. You know, the ones outside of US Law that for some odd reason the Bush Admin like to use them. 

I could be wrong but I know it's one of those european countries.

I can agree on more discussion on both sides of the spectrum on how we assess security risks.


----------



## Chris

Ninja said:


> Apparently Biden gave the same speech at a campaign appearance this morning
> 
> I watched her gubernatorial debates. Unlike Barack Milhouse Obama, she's actually nimble on her feet and doesn't sound like a dipshit when there's no TelePrompTer&#8482;



Personal insults are all you have, no facts.

So sad....


----------



## Modbert

glockmail said:


> So what? All that proves is that lots of people hate O'Reilly. Especailly libs like Paul Krugman. I'm not here to defend him. He's a big boy and can do that himself. Call up his radio show if you don't believe that.



Well he makes alot of mistakes too, not just people who "hate" O'Reilly.

The man who "doesn't tell tell people to shut up" will do exactly that.

He cuts people's mics on his shows, and he hates when people disagree with him.

Besides, I don't think I want to be anywhere near Billy Boy and a phone. He might try to pull out his loofah. 

Or this:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CowWSNO6v30]YouTube - Bill O'Reilly *Michelle Obama Lynching Party*[/ame]


----------



## SwingVoter

Kirk said:


> So sad....



After 8 years of making fun of Bush's inability to finish sentences, you'd think the Dems would get the same laugh watching Obama um and uh every time the prompter is off.    I think I'll write one of those cute coffee table books you see at Barnes & Noble on Obamaisms, he's already had tons of funny tongue-tied moments, and he's not even in office yet.


----------



## Silence

AllieBaba said:


> Clinton lied under oath during an investigation into criminal allegations.
> 
> Sarah Palin opted not to abort her Down's syndrome child, and did not pressure her 17 year old pregnant daughter to abort.
> 
> Oh, I can see how those two things are both so alike.




he lied about getting his DICK SUCKED, nothing to do with national security or anything related to the running of the country.  

Bush lied about WMD and he got us into a war.  now granted he wasn't under oath or anything but which lie is worse?


----------



## Modbert

AllieBaba said:


> Clinton lied under oath during an investigation into criminal allegations.
> 
> Sarah Palin opted not to abort her Down's syndrome child, and did not pressure her 17 year old pregnant daughter to abort.
> 
> Oh, I can see how those two things are both so alike.



Well I can start listing all her lies and half truths but then you'll just try to slander me with a Sexist label for disagreeing with Sarah Palin.


----------



## glockmail

Modbert said:


> Well he makes alot of mistakes too, not just people who "hate" O'Reilly.
> 
> The man who "doesn't tell tell people to shut up" will do exactly that.
> 
> He cuts people's mics on his shows, and he hates when people disagree with him.
> 
> Besides, I don't think I want to be anywhere near Billy Boy and a phone. He might try to pull out his loofah.
> 
> Or this:
> 
> YouTube - Bill O'Reilly *Michelle Obama Lynching Party*


Again, I don't need to defend the guy. Go ahead and call him up and he'll do so himself. Or better yet, knock on his front door.

Now back to that little weeny Krugnan....


----------



## SwingVoter

Silence said:


> he lied about getting his DICK SUCKED



as did everyone in my high school


----------



## Modbert

Silence said:


> he lied about getting his DICK SUCKED, nothing to do with national security or anything related to the running of the country.
> 
> Bush lied about WMD and he got us into a war.  now granted he wasn't under oath or anything but which lie is worse?



Would it be wrong to say that Bush has America on her knees to the oil countries such as Saudi Arabia similar to Monica Lewinsky was with Clinton? 

Least Monica had a choice and came out getting a bunch of free Publicity. 

We just continue to be a country that's addicted to that oil.


----------



## SwingVoter

Modbert said:


> And I won't be surprised if less then 30,000,000 watch McCain.



he's up against the Giants-Redskins game too, low-mid 20s maybe


----------



## Modbert

SwingVoter said:


> he's up against the Giants-Redskins game too, low-mid 20s maybe



*Wonders if he can throw the numbers in Ninja's face like Ninja would me if McCain gets lower numbers then Biden.*


----------



## AllieBaba

Silence said:


> he lied about getting his DICK SUCKED, nothing to do with national security or anything related to the running of the country.
> 
> Bush lied about WMD and he got us into a war.  now granted he wasn't under oath or anything but which lie is worse?




Were we talking about Bush?
And he lied under oath. It doesn't matter about what he lied...if he lied about getting head, he'd lie about using troopers to pimp for him in Arkansas, he'd lie about shady $$ deals where his wife made beaucoups bucks in what, 10 days?

And he lied about getting head from a very young intern in the oval office while being TRIED for the sexual harassment of Paula Jones. 

So you're saying lying under oath about your sexual behavior during a sexual harassment suit is the same as choosing to give birth over getting an abortion? Giving birth to a child is a crime now?


----------



## Chris

SwingVoter said:


> After 8 years of making fun of Bush's inability to finish sentences, you'd think the Dems would get the same laugh watching Obama um and uh every time the prompter is off.    I think I'll write one of those cute coffee table books you see at Barnes & Noble on Obamaisms, he's already had tons of funny tongue-tied moments, and he's not even in office yet.



Personal attacks are all you have, so sad.


----------



## Ninja

Kirk said:


> Personal insults are all you have, no facts.
> 
> So sad....



Biden is a plagiarist. This is a fact.

Obama sounds like a retard when asked to speak without the aid of a TelePrompTer&#8482;. This is a fact.

Lies are all you have, no facts. 

So sad...


----------



## DiveCon

Silence said:


> he lied about getting his DICK SUCKED, nothing to do with national security or anything related to the running of the country.
> 
> Bush lied about WMD and he got us into a war.  now granted he wasn't under oath or anything but which lie is worse?


the thing is, Bush didnt lie
Clinton did, and it was under oath
there is a huge difference between the two


----------



## DiveCon

SwingVoter said:


> he's up against the Giants-Redskins game too, low-mid 20s maybe


yeah, which to dvr?


----------



## Modbert

Ninja said:


> Biden is a plagiarist. This is a fact.
> 
> Obama sounds like a retard when asked to speak without the aid of a TelePrompTer. This is a fact.
> 
> Lies are all you have, no facts.
> 
> So sad...



Well I'm sure we're all equally glad you use the word "retard" in a offensive manner. Mumbles McCain is so much better right?



This was posted in another thread but it needs to be shown here:

Jon Stewart Annihilates Sarah Palin's Media Surrogates | Comedy Central Insider - The Comedy Blog for Comedy Fans

So Ninja, look at that video and tell me what you think.


----------



## Chris

Ninja said:


> Biden is a plagiarist. This is a fact.
> 
> Obama sounds like a retard when asked to speak without the aid of a TelePrompTer. This is a fact.
> 
> Lies are all you have, no facts.
> 
> So sad...



Wow, what a charge. He's a PLAGARIST!

Palin is being investigated for abuse of power and will be indicted on Oct. 31st.


----------



## AllieBaba

Modbert said:


> Well I can start listing all her lies and half truths but then you'll just try to slander me with a Sexist label for disagreeing with Sarah Palin.



Yeah, sound familiar?

Every person who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist, remember? I sure do.....

But go ahead and provide your evidence. It didn't stop me...


----------



## Shogun

Ninja said:


> Biden is a plagiarist. This is a fact.
> 
> Obama sounds like a retard when asked to speak without the aid of a TelePrompTer. This is a fact.
> 
> Lies are all you have, no facts.
> 
> So sad...




here.. ENJOYS some fucking facts, buddy.

<embed FlashVars="videoId=184086" src='http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/video_player/view/default/swf.jhtml' quality='high' bgcolor='#cccccc' width='332' height='316' name='comedy_central_player' align='middle' allowScriptAccess='always' allownetworking='external' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed>

Jon Stewart Annihilates Sarah Palin's Media Surrogates | Comedy Central Insider - The Comedy Blog for Comedy Fans


----------



## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> the thing is, Bush didnt lie
> Clinton did, and it was under oath
> there is a huge difference between the two



listen.. that whole "bush didn't lie" crap despite the mushroom cloud rehtoric and WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION shit is about as convincing as a candy wielding child predator.  For real.  Clinton got a blowjob.  Bush invaded a country to get revenge for his daddy on false presences.  Accept that if you want to but  W will NEVER live down the reputation of his own political tactics.


----------



## Modbert

AllieBaba said:


> Yeah, sound familiar?
> 
> Every person who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist, remember? I sure do.....
> 
> But go ahead and provide your evidence. It didn't stop me...



I never personally called anyone who didn't vote for Obama a racist. 

STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT

You on another thread just today called someone Sexist just for disagreeing with Sarah Palin so therefore he must hate women. 

I was just pointing out how it's no surprise that your using the new GOP Talking Point.

I've posted all over the boards evidence of why I don't think Sarah Palin is qualified at all. This thread included.


----------



## DiveCon

Shogun said:


> listen.. that whole "bush didn't lie" crap despite the mushroom cloud rehtoric and WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION shit is about as convincing as a candy wielding child predator.  For real.  Clinton got a blowjob.  Bush invaded a country to get revenge for his daddy on false presences.  Accept that if you want to but  W will NEVER live down the reputation of his own political tactics.


please, seek out help for your ABDS, Bush wont be POTUS in a few months


----------



## DiveCon

Shogun said:


> here.. ENJOYS some fucking facts, buddy.
> 
> <embed FlashVars="videoId=184086" src='http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/video_player/view/default/swf.jhtml' quality='high' bgcolor='#cccccc' width='332' height='316' name='comedy_central_player' align='middle' allowScriptAccess='always' allownetworking='external' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed>
> 
> Jon Stewart Annihilates Sarah Palin's Media Surrogates | Comedy Central Insider - The Comedy Blog for Comedy Fans



you are actually using a COMEDIAN to counter Palin
 OMG too precious


----------



## AllieBaba

Shogun said:


> listen.. that whole "bush didn't lie" crap despite the mushroom cloud rehtoric and WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION shit is about as convincing as a candy wielding child predator.  For real.  Clinton got a blowjob.  Bush invaded a country to get revenge for his daddy on false presences.  Accept that if you want to but  W will NEVER live down the reputation of his own political tactics.



No, Clinton sexually harassed women, and got caught for it..then lied when he was under oath.

Difference. It's one thing to have consensual sex, it's another to get Arkansas state troopers to pimp and intimidate women on your behalf. If you choose to make the mistake of using state troopers as pimps and guards, then you'd better be ready to come clean when you find a woman who objects.

Moral of the story: Get your own tail, and you might check to see if they're interested before you expose yourself to them.

Still don't see how that compares opting out of abortion in the realm of "character" but whatever.


----------



## Modbert

Shogun said:


> listen.. that whole "bush didn't lie" crap despite the mushroom cloud rehtoric and WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION shit is about as convincing as a candy wielding child predator.  For real.  Clinton got a blowjob.  Bush invaded a country to get revenge for his daddy on false presences.  Accept that if you want to but  W will NEVER live down the reputation of his own political tactics.



This is the mental image I got when you mentioned the candy wielding child predator comment.

In this case, the candy = oil.


----------



## AllieBaba

Modbert said:


> I never personally called anyone who didn't vote for Obama a racist.
> 
> STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT
> 
> You on another thread just today called someone Sexist just for disagreeing with Sarah Palin so therefore he must hate women.
> 
> I was just pointing out how it's no surprise that your using the new GOP Talking Point.
> 
> I've posted all over the boards evidence of why I don't think Sarah Palin is qualified at all. This thread included.



Yes, it's because you hate women. Don't feel bad, that's Shogun's reason, too.


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> you are actually using a COMEDIAN to counter Palin
> OMG too precious



I watch Comedy Central for my news and Fox News for my comedy. 

Least that's what it come to. Jon Stewart is the least biased person out there on news subjects. (And that's out of ALL media networks)


----------



## SwingVoter

Kirk said:


> Palin is being investigated for abuse of power and will be indicted on Oct. 31st.



Thanks for that prediction, you must be very insightful, I'd like to know more.   So please tell me, what do the voices say when you remove your tinfoil hat?


----------



## AllieBaba

Robert_Santurri said:


> I watch Comedy Central for my news and Fox News for my comedy.
> 
> Least that's what it come to. Jon Stewart is the least biased person out there on news subjects. (And that's out of ALL media networks)



But perhaps not quite so well informed.


----------



## Modbert

AllieBaba said:


> Yes, it's because you hate women. Don't feel bad, that's Shogun's reason, too.



If I hate women, then God really did tell Sarah Palin that we should be in Iraq. 

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/02/sarah-palin-iraq-war-gods-plan/

I didn't know God spoke to her directly. She would get a standing ovation for that, most people would be thrown in a mental institution.

I don't know if your being sarcastic when you say that but I guess that makes you sexist in return for disagreeing with Barack Obama? 

Oh wait, that's the logic you throw at people. I feel all dirty now, gonna have to take a extra shower later.


----------



## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> please, seek out help for your ABDS, Bush wont be POTUS in a few months



no, he wont.. But he ALSO won't outlive his version of watergate either.  Please, make suggestions about therapy after you get over the SUPER natural feat of living in a fucking fish for 3 days.


Trust me, Palin is the latest Meyers gaffe made by a fumbling republican party.


----------



## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> you are actually using a COMEDIAN to counter Palin
> OMG too precious



no.  IM using VIDEO CLIPS. 


please... make sure you hope that no one else can watch the words coming from the mouths of rove and palin.


----------



## DiveCon

Shogun said:


> no, he wont.. But he ALSO won't outlive his version of watergate either.  Please, make suggestions about therapy after you get over the SUPER natural feat of living in a fucking fish for 3 days.
> 
> 
> Trust me, Palin is the latest Meyers gaffe made by a fumbling republican party.


nice cross posting


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Yes, it's because you hate women. Don't feel bad, that's Shogun's reason, too.



You are a laughing joke, baba.  This is why you dont like Stewarts little video montage.  Facts never really did gel with your brain.  I don't hate women at all.  And, be sure, criticism of your joke of a VP candidate is neither indication of hatred against women OR any other little laughable talking point that puts sean hannity to sleep each night.


----------



## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> nice cross posting



nice bob and weave.


Now, tell me how the videos on Stewarts little Montage are FAKED.  You see, in a world where fish can't keep humans alive underwater, THIS is what we call evidence.


----------



## Article 15

DiveCon said:


> you are actually using a COMEDIAN to counter Palin
> OMG too precious



Did you see what Karl Rove said about Tim Kaine's "experience" as a mayor and governor ...


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> But perhaps not quite so well informed.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


yea!


NOTHING says UNINFORMED quite like VIDEO FOOTAGE!


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> Did you see what Karl Rove said about Tim Kaine's "experience" as a mayor and governor ...



Acknowledge facts? 

Keep it moving Article. 

I can define Sarah Palin running as VP in three words America.


----------



## DiveCon

Shogun said:


> nice bob and weave.
> 
> 
> Now, tell me how the videos on Stewarts little Montage are FAKED.  You see, in a world where fish can't keep humans alive underwater, THIS is what we call evidence.


naw, i can see you arent really interested
you just want to express your ABDS
have at it


----------



## DiveCon

Article 15 said:


> Did you see what Karl Rove said about Tim Kaine's "experience" as a mayor and governor ...


no


----------



## Article 15

DiveCon said:


> no



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgVSW-KhJb4]YouTube - Rove On VP Picks[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon

Article 15 said:


> YouTube - Rove On VP Picks


ok, now how does that translate to Palin?
since she HAS been very effective


----------



## Chris

Article 15 said:


> YouTube - Rove On VP Picks



Classic...

I can't wait till Rove is arrested.


----------



## DiveCon

Kirk said:


> Classic...
> 
> I can't wait till Rove is arrested.


more pipe dreams from kirky


find a criminal charge first moron


----------



## Article 15

DiveCon said:


> ok, now how does that translate to Palin?
> since she HAS been very effective



You are pulling that tiny part of the video and ignoring the rest ...

Really, man ... really?


----------



## DiveCon

Article 15 said:


> You are pulling that tiny part of the video and ignoring the rest ...
> 
> Really, man ... really?


well, there wasnt anything else there, really


----------



## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> naw, i can see you arent really interested
> you just want to express your ABDS
> have at it



oh im interested in having fun with you little palin fanbois alright.  Feel free to swim off if my posts are a bit too strong and peppered with evidence for you.


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> more pipe dreams from kirky
> 
> 
> find a criminal charge first moron



Well they're probably in the same place as these emails.

White House: Millions of e-mails may be missing - CNN.com


Info on missing White House emails to remain missing | The Register

225 Days of WH Emails Missing - TIME

Think Progress  Leahy: Missing White House Emails Found, But Still Witheld From Congress

Man would I like to read those..

The last one I found interesting since it alluded to the missing 18-minute gap on the Nixon White House Tapes. We all know how that turned out.


----------



## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> ok, now how does that translate to Palin?
> since she HAS been very effective






yea... cause denigrating a man for being a mayor of atown LARGER than palin's sure the hell doesn't indicate a thing or two about palin!


nice.


----------



## Article 15

DiveCon said:


> well, there wasnt anything else there, really



There was oodles more there ...

He completely brushed aside gubernatorial experience and minimized the size of Richmond ... 

How do you think that translates to Alaska and Wasilla?


----------



## DiveCon

Article 15 said:


> There was oodles more there ...
> 
> He completely brushed aside gubernatorial experience and minimized the size of Richmond ...
> 
> How do you think that translates to Alaska and Wasilla?


have at it then


----------



## Chris

DiveCon said:


> more pipe dreams from kirky
> 
> 
> find a criminal charge first moron



Do a little reading.

Here's the one that will get Rove...

http://www.politickerco.com/jeremyp...bama-governor-pleads-case-colorado-delegation


----------



## Chris

Did Ex-Alabama Governor Get A Raw Deal?, 60 Minutes Reports On Bribery Conviction Of Don Siegelman In A Case Criticized by Democrats And Republicans - CBS News


----------



## DiveCon

Kirk said:


> Do a little reading.
> 
> Here's the one that will get Rove...
> 
> http://www.politickerco.com/jeremyp...bama-governor-pleads-case-colorado-delegation



keep hoping kirk
you still keep wishing for Fitzmas


----------



## Article 15

DiveCon said:


> have at it then



There's nothing else to be had  ... the video speaks a thousand words ...


----------



## DiveCon

Article 15 said:


> There's nothing else to be had  ... the video speaks a thousand words ...


in your opinion, not in mine
the main part of what he was saying was that Kaine was not effective


----------



## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> Well they're probably in the same place as these emails.
> 
> White House: Millions of e-mails may be missing - CNN.com
> 
> 
> Info on missing White House emails to remain missing | The Register
> 
> 225 Days of WH Emails Missing - TIME
> 
> Think Progress  Leahy: Missing White House Emails Found, But Still Witheld From Congress
> 
> Man would I like to read those..
> 
> The last one I found interesting since it alluded to the missing 18-minute gap on the Nixon White House Tapes. We all know how that turned out.


keep hope alive


----------



## Article 15

DiveCon said:


> in your opinion, not in mine
> the main part of what he was saying was that Kaine was not effective



Yeah ... if you focus on 2.3 seconds of the video and turn your ears off for the rest ...


----------



## DiveCon

Article 15 said:


> Yeah ... if you focus on 2.3 seconds of the video and turn your ears off for the rest ...


i watched the whole thing
and it all came back to the very same thing
sorry you cant see that
i but i didnt ignore any of it


----------



## Ninja

Shogun said:


> here.. ENJOYS some fucking facts, buddy.



Likewise, buddy:



> Joe Bidens history of plagiarism and stressless scholarship gave plenty of ammo to his enemies, one of them choosing to circulate a so-called attack video to demonstrate Bidens outright plagiarism of a British politicians speech. But this appropriation from Neal Kinnock was not the first occurrence of unacknowledged lifting by the senator from Delaware.
> 
> In 1965 Biden plagiarized while writing a paper as a student at the Syracuse University Law School in a legal methods course which he failed because of that copied paper. Such stressless scholarship as it is euphemistically called has become all too common in the modern Internet era with countless cheatsites and research services offering to sell students papers on topics from A to Z.
> 
> ;;:
> 
> 
> In an article entitled Bidens Belly Flop, Newsweek printed Joe Bidens yearbook picture from his college days and a copy of his law school transcripts with the big F in his transcripts circled. Biden was given a chance to repeat his legal methods course, and above the F his retake grade of 80% was eventually penciled in. Being a repeat offender when it came to plagiarism made things much, much worse for Biden than they might have been otherwise in his failed bid for the Democratic presidential ticket in 1987.
> 
> Senator Bidens plagiarism of a speech by British Labor Party leader Neal Kinnock took place at a campaign stump at the Iowa State Fairgrounds. *In closing his speech, Biden took Kinnocks ideas and language as if they were his very own inspired thoughts, prefacing Kinnocks ideas with the phrase I started thinking as I was coming over here . . . .*   Little did Biden suspect that video footage of this speech would be spliced together with footage of Kinnocks speech in an attack video which would be distributed by members of the Dukakis campaign.
> 
> ::;
> 
> Biden initially denied any wrongdoing, claiming that this was just an inadvertent lack of acknowledgement. Yet there were other instances of rhetorical borrowing from speeches made by Robert F. Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey. And the fact that Biden had given other speeches using the Kinnock passages without acknowledgment suggested that the lifting was more than just an inadvertent oversight.
> 
> :::;
> 
> *In the end, Biden may be remembered as the candidate who truly offered the voters an echo and not a choice.*
> 
> :::;
> 
> William Safire, former speechwriter for Richard Nixon, gloated in the New York Times over Bidens demise, quoting a supposedly embittered Democrat who said, Im going back to Gary Hart . . . At least he didnt steal that girl from some far-lefty in England. And he concluded his op-ed column with a swipe at Bidens ability to think apart from his speechwriter: So my advice to candidates like Joe Biden is this: Do justly, love perorations and walk humbly with thy speechwriter. (I forget where I got that, but it has a nice ring to it.) 
> 
> With all the press he was receiving over his Neal Kinnock plagiarism courtesy of the Dukakis attack videos, Biden was quickly becoming the most famous political plagiarist of our time, as Thomas Mallon describes the unfortunate Delaware senator. It was just a matter of time before Biden would have to bow out of the democratic primary.



Famous Plagiarists.com © WarOnPlagiarism.org-- Political Profiles

Someone get this poor man a TelePrompTer:

[youtube]ThEAO0lt4Dw[/youtube]


----------



## Article 15

DiveCon said:


> i watched the whole thing
> and it all came back to the very same thing
> sorry you cant see that
> i but i didnt ignore any of it



He made two points ... one that he was able but not effective ... two, that his scope of responsibility was too small <--------------- that's where he points out how small Richmond is... Alaska has barely twice the population of Richmond which is 25 times bigger than Wasilla ...from three he continues to say that his appointment would be for political reasons only to shore up VA's electoral votes ...


----------



## DiveCon

Article 15 said:


> He made two points ... one that he was able but not effective ... two, that his scope of responsibility was too small <--------------- that's where he points out how small Richmond is... Alaska has barely twice the population of Richmond which is 25 times bigger than Wasilla ...from three he continues to say that his appointment would be for political reasons only to shore up VA's electoral votes ...


well, AK only has 3 EC votes, and its fairly solid red
so that clearly wasnt why Palin was chosen

i still maintain it was to attract the conservatives back, and that is what i'm seeing
conservatives that were either going to vote 3rd party or stay home, are now supporting the ticket


----------



## frazzledgear

Silence said:


> now don't go crazy toro... she's pretty fertile and doesn't believe in birth control
> 
> I don't think it was that my expectations were low, cuz they weren't.  I just didn't know what the expect.
> 
> I will say this, she's one of the few Republicans I can actually LISTEN to speak for any length of time.  She didn't bore the snot out of me and even if I strongly disagree with her she got her message across.
> 
> It's the wrong message for the country at this point simply based on what Bush & Co have done to this country over the last 8 years.  We can't take the chance on McCain/Palin because we can't trust that they won't continue on with business as usual.



Its pretty obvious who wasn't alive under the Carter Presidency -the ABSOLUTE worst President in my lifetime.  Whatever conditions you think are SOOO terrible now, it can't compare to the reality under Carter.  But you better learn from it anyway -or pay the price for ignorance.

Obama isn't offering anything NEW at all.  His idea of "change" is a return to the same old historically proven failures of past policies.  He offers the failed policies of both Herbert Hoover and Carter and calls it "change".  He wants to inflict on us all Hoover's protectionist policies that directly contributed to the Great Depression combined with the economic disaster that resulted from Carter's policies.

Hoover's protectionist policies that Obama advocates for us today and for the identical reasons Hoover did - resulted in massive factory closings across the country and a snowballing massive unemployment.  With the least skilled and least educated paying the heaviest price for those protectionist policies.  Carter's failed economic policies (which Obama promises to re-instate) of increasing income taxes (but only on the rich of course), payroll taxes, capital gains tax and business taxes -resulted in double digit interest rates, double digit inflation and nearly double digit unemployment rates.  Carter turned a stagnant economy into an outright recession that was bordering on all out depression -and would have been if he had gotten a 2nd term.  Oh, can't forget the gas rationing with mile long lines at the gas pumps -that was a lot of fun too.  So the current 5.4% unemployment, 1.3% inflation and 5% prime interest rates represent AWFUL Bush policies that can't possibly get worse?  ROFLMAO!  Just install an unqualified liberal freshman Senator holding out Hoover's and Carter's failed policies once again and watch.  While pretending Bush policies have resulted in a terrible economy that is inflicting mass suffering on Americans, keep in mind that France's turn to the left means they are thrilled anytime their unemployment rate drops from its longstanding norm of 10% to 9.8% before returning to 10% the very next month and Europeans pay $8.20 a gallon for their gas. 

The average unemployment rate during Bush's Presidency has been 5.25% -never achieved by any Democrat President in modern times and lower than the average unemployment rate for the previous three decades.  Economists admit that a 4% unemployment rate is "full employment" on paper but in practice 5.0% is a more realistic figure of "full employment".  We have historic lows on interest rates and historic highs on productivity and we stand at 4/10ths of 1% within full employment. In spite of the uptick in home foreclosures, there are still 3.9 million more people who own their own homes than they did under Clinton.  Clinton crows about "his" economy despite the fact the average unemployment rate for his 8 years was 5.4% -exactly what it is today -but with less than half the productivity rate of today and when prime interest was 8%.  And due to his change in policy two years before leaving office, "his" economy totally collapsed!  It requires some real deception or dull minded ignorance to insist we had a better economy under Clinton when it is now known that economy was built on a phony bubble that economists repeatedly warned was unsustainable and would dramatically collapse.  And did.  We have an economy that may be teetering on becoming stagnant or about to make yet another correction check that is part and parcel of the normal economic cycle.  So Dems insist the answer is to shove it over the edge into recession.  

Obama is NOT advocating a return to Clinton's economic policies.  Not when Clinton continued pretty much with Reagan's economic policies for his first 6 years and those policies are actually much too consistent with McCain's  policies.   Obama is advocating a return to the proven failed economic policies of Carter -while promising it will result in a Clinton economy!  Interesting but stupid delusion to believe the disastrous policies of Carter could possibly produce an economy as existed under either Clinton or Bush -when it can only result in an economy like Carter created.   

Carter/Obama policies have repeatedly PROVEN to hit hardest the very people Obama claims he wants to help the most.  As a result, while unemployment under Carter sharply rose to nearly 10% - among minorities and the poorest, that rate skyrocketed to 22%.  Have to be pretty stupid or just downright ignorant to believe it will suddenly produce the opposite result now.  Voters threw Carter out after one term for good reason and the damage he did in just a few years took much longer to repair than it took to inflict. Carter had the balls to run for re-election on a platform that Americans hadn't tightened their belts enough yet.  No longer claiming his policies would bring prosperity to families and the nation but promising we could expect only further despair and financial hardship.  And here comes Obama holding out the identical loser policies, and repeating Carter's initial lie that these policies will bring greater prosperity to families and the nation.  They will do no such thing.   

*So I wonder about those who insist that in today's dangerous world, with very lethally real enemies, rogue nations seeking nukes, Russia and China both seeking to replace the US as superpower, still engaged in wars we are winning and cannot afford to lose because of the dire consequences to our security -we should elect someone who has never held a job of leadership in his life, one with zero executive experience, one with zero business experience, one who has never even CO-authored a single significant piece of legislation, one with no understanding of economics since he insists he can actually TAX the nation into wealth and properity and absolutely zero experience in energy, diplomacy, military and foreign affairs.*  In fact, his sole "qualification" is merely a gift for eloquently repeating the speeches someone else has written for him.  But he isn't nearly as a gifted speaker when speaking off the cuff or in debates.  

So you are going for the single most unqualified Presidential candidate in at least a century and want him elected so we can all find out the hard way that unqualified, inexperienced freshmen Senators really don't make good Presidents after all.  And learn the really hard way what we should already know for a fact -when the economy is teetering on turning south, raising taxes is a really, REALLY bad idea.  But not to worry!  Obama is also hoping to "save" our healthcare system.  Another one who believes turning over an entire industry to government is not only the best way to help those who cannot afford adequate healthcare insurance on their own, it is the ONLY way to do so.  Only if you also believe that the best and only way to fit an additional family member into your house is by tearing down the entire house and putting up a big flimsy tent instead -and call it an "improvement".  That is the only kind of healthcare we can get with Obama's plan.  Give us ALL flimsy, inadequate, inefficient and inferior healthcare instead -while making sure we all pay far more for it in taxes than we paid before.  Kind of like having a $500 monthly mortage payment on that house and replacing it with that tent we now pay $1500 a month for instead.  While the con artist who sold it to us tells us what a great improvement it is.

I found it pretty funny that Dems just WAIL that Palin is unqualified to be VP after holding two different top executive offices.  Dems sure didn't whine that Huckabee or Romney, also governors, weren't qualified to for an even higher job -so it must be that she was governor of AK instead of a state in the northeast that makes them believe that bs.  But at the very same time they insist that being a junior freshman Senator for a few months makes Obama more than qualified for the job of President?  Get real.  Not only do Senators grossly overpay themselves for the number of hours they actually spend doing the work of a Senator and not only do they spend far more days not working at all than the number of days they spend on the job - their best skills are at figuring out to put pork into some unrelated bill and engage in partisan sniping.  Obama hasn't done a darn thing of note as a Senator.  In spite of the fact he has been one for EXACTLY as long as Palin has been holding the executive office of governor.  But unlike Obama - she HAS done much of note while holding that job which explains her 80% approval rating among her own constituents. 

Palin is more qualified in terms of relevant experience for the job of President even though she isn't running for that job - than Obama and Biden combined.  I think it is both sad and hilarious that the guy who claimed to be THE One to bring about "change" chose an old, angry bitter white guy as his running mate -while trotting out the same old historically proven failed policies of the past.  He turned to the past in EVERY way possible and calls it "change".  McCain looked forward and chose someone who is clearly going to be among the next generation of leaders in this country.  Someone who is not only quite politically skilled, but one who actually has quite a remarkable record of significant accomplishments in that time given the fact she's had her job exactly as long as Obama has had the job of Senator.  Yet he is the one with nothing at all to show for it except the title.  While you may believe that makes him fully qualified for the most powerful job in the world, a job for which he has no relevant experience and no major accomplishments whatsoever -in my book that makes him totally unfit for the job.


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## frazzledgear

DiveCon said:


> well, AK only has 3 EC votes, and its fairly solid red
> so that clearly wasnt why Palin was chosen
> 
> i still maintain it was to attract the conservatives back, and that is what i'm seeing
> conservatives that were either going to vote 3rd party or stay home, are now supporting the ticket



He chose Palin for a specific reason - for the same vote that gave Bush the election in 2000.  Rural and small town voters.  In spite of the phony bs about who actually won Florida and the repeated counts and recounts -if Gore had been able to win his OWN state which is usually a given in every Presidential election - he would have been President even while losing Florida.  But he lost big time among rural and small town voters, including in his own state which went for Bush.  Bush won big time among rural and small town voters across the country.  And these are the voters McCain intends to keep in his own camp while portraying Obama as a big city, out of touch urban guy who immersed himself in the Chicago political machine before emerging on the scene in Washington.  Something rural voters cannot identify with at all and usually (and accurately) perceive as totally corrupt.


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## DiveCon

frazzledgear said:


> He chose Palin for a specific reason - for the same vote that gave Bush the election in 2000.  Rural and small town voters.  In spite of the phony bs about who actually won Florida and the repeated counts and recounts -if Gore had been able to win his OWN state which is usually a given in every Presidential election - he would have been President even while losing Florida.  But he lost big time among rural and small town voters, including in his own state which went for Bush.  Bush won big time among rural and small town voters across the country.  And these are the voters McCain intends to keep in his own camp while portraying Obama as a big city, out of touch urban guy who immersed himself in the Chicago political machine before emerging on the scene in Washington.  Something rural voters cannot identify with at all and usually (and accurately) perceive as totally corrupt.


its going to be another close one


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## Jeepers

Shadow said:


> MSNBC's Kieth Olbermann reported that the telepromter was not working correctly...so you would be wrong.



I guess Olberman is all seeing and all knowing... I watched that teleprompter all night...it had a 30 second hiccup and then kept going...


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## Jon

Jeepers said:


> I guess Olberman is all seeing and all knowing... I watched that teleprompter all night...it had a 30 second hiccup and then kept going...



30 seconds is long enough for Obama to stammer through at least six words and change his entire speech. Palin never showed a bit of weakness in her speech.


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## Shogun

Ninja said:


> Likewise, buddy:
> 
> 
> 
> Famous Plagiarists.com © WarOnPlagiarism.org-- Political Profiles
> 
> Someone get this poor man a TelePrompTer:
> 
> [youtube]ThEAO0lt4Dw[/youtube]



HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

yea!


because BIDEN is the ONLY politician to ever lift anything from a previous politician!  OH NOOOEZ!  






OLD bullshit versus BRAND NEW MEDIA FODDER.. yea, IM impressed!  Maybe it's time you figure out why unvetted gimmick nominees will come back to haunt you post afterglow of your little convention orgasm...





poor guy..


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## Shogun

jsanders said:


> 30 seconds is long enough for Obama to stammer through at least six words and change his entire speech. Palin never showed a bit of weakness in her speech.



yea.. it takes a LOT to memorize words given to you by a speech writer..





Besides, did she really need to show weakness when she was lying her ass off?

"I was FOR the bridge to nowhere before I was against it!"


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## DiveCon

Shogun said:


> yea.. it takes a LOT to memorize words given to you by a speech writer..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, did she really need to show weakness when she was lying her ass off?
> 
> "I was FOR the bridge to nowhere before I was against it!"


LOL yeah, lets see YOU do it

btw, she was FOR getting the money, but NOT for the bridge
she used that money for more appropriate needs


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## AllieBaba

Shogun said:


> yea.. it takes a LOT to memorize words given to you by a speech writer..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, did she really need to show weakness when she was lying her ass off?
> 
> "I was FOR the bridge to nowhere before I was against it!"




That's right, and a brilliant little bit of maneuvering it was, too.


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## Care4all

DiveCon said:


> LOL yeah, lets see YOU do it
> 
> btw, she was FOR getting the money, but NOT for the bridge
> she used that money for more appropriate needs



Alaska gets MORE than any other State in the USA in federal funds and PORK...

And their State gvt monies are in SURPLUS....taking OUR tax dollars and spending them in Alaska, when their State CLEARLY DOES NOT NEED THEM, is unethical imo....Alaska has abused us, primarily with Ted Stephens sending a great deal of OUR MONEY there....

Whether it was for the bridge to no where, or our money used there for something else....it is pork and it is OUR money, not theirs that they are taking from us....

it was and is wrong, primarily because the State of Alaska is running a surplus imho.

now that the repubs, young and stevens are in the hot seat, this should all be diminished in the future, HOPEFULLY.


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## AllieBaba

They don't need any money, they're nobodies! They're stupid! They're not really a part of the US! They're insignificant, gun-hugging Christians!

Send the money to the eastern US and LA, where it belongs!


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## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> LOL yeah, lets see YOU do it
> 
> btw, she was FOR getting the money, but NOT for the bridge
> she used that money for more appropriate needs



do you have ANY idea how fucking stupid it sounds for you to sit there and pretend that it makes a difference if she was FOR the money but AGAINST the bridge?  DESPITE the long list of fucking evidence otherwise?


dude.  for real.  This desperate shit is getting to the level of "depends on what your definition of "IS" is".


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## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> That's right, and a brilliant little bit of maneuvering it was, too.



HAHAHAHA!

yea.. BRILLIANT enough to become one hell of an albatross once the afterglow of the convention orgasm wears off!


for real.. your party shot itself in the foot with this one.


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## AllieBaba

She got the money, and the bridge is still under construction, and they're still developing...but got rid of all the negative aspects of that mess.

Win/win. Like I said, the woman's a genius.


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## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> They don't need any money, they're nobodies! They're stupid! They're not really a part of the US! They're insignificant, gun-hugging Christians!
> 
> Send the money to the eastern US and LA, where it belongs!



uh, well.. when the message of her speech was a 180 degree opposite...


yea..


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## AllieBaba

Shogun said:


> HAHAHAHA!
> 
> yea.. BRILLIANT enough to become one hell of an albatross once the afterglow of the convention orgasm wears off!
> 
> 
> for real.. your party shot itself in the foot with this one.



Naw, there isn't enough time between now and election day for it to wear off. And she's going to knock the Dems ass backwards when they start debating and she gets air time.


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## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Naw, there isn't enough time between now and election day for it to wear off. And she's going to knock the Dems ass backwards when they start debating and she gets air time.




yea.. TRUST me.  by the second week in October you'll be singing a different tune.  STARTING with the debates.


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## Silence

AllieBaba said:


> She got the money, and the bridge is still under construction, and they're still developing...but got rid of all the negative aspects of that mess.
> 
> Win/win. Like I said, the woman's a genius.



so what I see you saying is...ask for the money, get the money, use the money but then tell the American people you said no thanks!  

yep, that's reform alright!


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## DiveCon

Shogun said:


> do you have ANY idea how fucking stupid it sounds for you to sit there and pretend that it makes a difference if she was FOR the money but AGAINST the bridge?  DESPITE the long list of fucking evidence otherwise?
> 
> 
> dude.  for real.  This desperate shit is getting to the level of "depends on what your definition of "IS" is".


you sure do know desperate shit
that i can agree with
but i'm not desperate at all


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## Shogun

DiveCon said:


> you sure do know desperate shit
> that i can agree with
> but i'm not desperate at all



indeed, your posts suggest otherwise.  Watch any funny Palin videos lately?


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## AllieBaba

Silence said:


> so what I see you saying is...ask for the money, get the money, use the money but then tell the American people you said no thanks!
> 
> yep, that's reform alright!



Yes, it actually is. She thought on her feet, she didn't screw her people over, and the end result was beneficial for all....and if she had blindly stuck to the bridge, everyone would have been screwed.


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## Chris

AllieBaba said:


> She got the money, and the bridge is still under construction, and they're still developing...but got rid of all the negative aspects of that mess.
> 
> Win/win. Like I said, the woman's a genius.



Yea, she's a real genius......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiOIEGM7XEs]YouTube - John McCain VP Sarah Palin Retro Sports Report![/ame]


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## frazzledgear

DiveCon said:


> its going to be another close one



I'm not convinced it will be close at all.  

Obama is not in good shape to be in a dead heat at this point.  CBS poll has them each at 42%.  He was the novelty, not McCain -but no novelty any longer.  People are already looking beyond the historic nature of his nomination and taking a harder look at substance now.  But with no relevant experience, no major accomplishments in any elected office, his celebrity status wearing thin, people believing they have been over-exposed to him and hearing him dragging out the same old tired Democrat policies of more taxes, big government and big spending, already seen by the largest audience he's going to get at one time -what's left?  He got his convention bump and immediately bled it off.  Everyone has been seeing and hearing this guy from so early on and for so long now -if he wasn't able to draw them in before this point, what's he got left to attract them now?   

Since he's shot his wad and can only keep on repeating what everyone has already heard ad nauseum and McCain's campaign got a new kick, I think Obama is likely to continue losing support over the next 2 months.  I also think that a significant majority of the "undecideds" in these polls (which is a significant percentage of people) aren't going to go for Obama if they hadn't already been convinced by now.  Unless McCain/Palin make a major and unforgivable blunder of course.


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## DiveCon

Kirk said:


> Yea, she's a real genius......
> 
> YouTube - John McCain VP Sarah Palin Retro Sports Report!


what the hell was wrong with that?
it was for a local channel news report
you show you are more of a moron than i thought you were
and thats something


----------



## AllieBaba

frazzledgear said:


> I'm not convinced it will be close at all.
> 
> Obama is not in good shape to be in a dead heat at this point.  CBS poll has them each at 42%.  He was the novelty, not McCain -but no novelty any longer.  People are already looking beyond the historic nature of his nomination and taking a harder look at substance now.  But with no relevant experience, no major accomplishments in any elected office, his celebrity status wearing thin, people believing they have been over-exposed to him and hearing him dragging out the same old tired Democrat policies of more taxes, big government and big spending, already seen by the largest audience he's going to get at one time -what's left?  He got his convention bump and immediately bled it off.  Everyone has been seeing and hearing this guy from so early on and for so long now -if he wasn't able to draw them in before this point, what's he got left to attract them now?
> 
> Since he's shot his wad and can only keep on repeating what everyone has already heard ad nauseum and McCain's campaign got a new kick, I think Obama is likely to continue losing support over the next 2 months.  I also think that a significant majority of the "undecideds" in these polls (which is a significant percentage of people) aren't going to go for Obama if they hadn't already been convinced by now.  Unless McCain/Palin make a major and unforgivable blunder of course.




I've never thought it would be close.


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