# Israeli Defense Minister HAMMERS obama



## Edgetho (Mar 20, 2014)

The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.

Israel 'cannot depend on U.S. in fight against Iran's nuclear program' | Mail Online

Watch and see.  Israel will attack Iran.  Watch.  Iran will try to retaliate and the spam is gonna hit the fan.  Big time.  In a Big Big Way.  Maybe Nuclear War in that Region but.....  I doubt it.  It will however be VERY messy.

China is gonna take those Islands from Japan.  Japan will then re-militarize.  Japan has been getting its people ready psychologically to re-arm.  The new Japanese leadership is getting tougher and tougher and for the first since the end of WWII, Japan's leader made a trip to some War Shrine, which is a VERY symbolic gesture, to honor thw Japanese WWII dead.  China's pretty upset about it.

North Korea just launched several missiles in a VERY provocative manner the other day.  South Korea is not happy about it.

These are just a couple of the bigger events that are either happening now or will happen...

Why?  Because we have THE worst president in our history in office.

People....  You're gonna pay for electing this guy.  

You're gonna pay.

And I think it's too late.  I don't believe there's anything anybody can do to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

Oh....  And Putin IS gonna invade and annex Eastern Ukraine.  I'm thinking after September when the G7 meets

Putin OWNS obama.

Oh, one other thing....

It's personal.

Remember when I said that obama was making a mistake by sending all those openly gay butt rangers to Sochi?  remember?  Of course not.  

I said it.  I was right... As usual.  All the Western powers (except Germany, I think) were thrilled that obama the community organizer in chief was giving Putin the old 'What For' and showing him up.

Putin is pissed.  It's personal.  He wants personal revenge and he's gonna get it.

obama is a retarded child compared to Putin.  Putin is gonna bend him over


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## pvsi (Mar 20, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> obama is a retarded child compared to Putin.  Putin is gonna bend him over


Your avatar image, the first and the last line of your post, and your signature, all make it pretty clear who the retarded child is


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## Edgetho (Mar 20, 2014)

pvsi said:


> Edgetho said:
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Thanks for bumping my thread genius.


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## BlindBoo (Mar 20, 2014)

In a phone conversation with US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel on Wednesday night, Ya'alon said that his comments "were not intended to express opposition, criticism or offense to the United States," adding that maintaining strong ties with the United States is Israel's utmost priority. 

Ya'alon expressed his appreciation for the close relationship Israel shares with the United States, and emphasized his full commitment to cooperation between the two nations. 

Ya'alon apologizes to US for inflammatory comments | JPost | Israel News


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> 
> Israel 'cannot depend on U.S. in fight against Iran's nuclear program' | Mail Online
> 
> ...



If Israel wants to act unilaterally, we should cut off any funding or support for them. 

I'm sure that we have some agreements with Japan regarding their defense and as a nation they should be able to have a standing Army and militarize themselves, Germany and Italy certainly have their own military.

North Korea and South Korea need to settle their differences. If North Korea is suicidal, they will attack South Korea, last time I heard, we do have a military base or bases there.

How are we "going to pay"?

Putin made a few good points in his last speech regarding NATO recruiting countries right on there "doorstep". We should have stayed out of Russia's immediate sphere of influence. It seems like everything was going ok until we started meddling in their region. This Administration has continued the same policy as the previous Administration that you probably voted for.

It seems like you really like Putin...............If so, why are you complaining about what he's doing in his region?


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 20, 2014)

Let them have at it. Not our fight. Bout time Israel decides to fight its own damn battles and stop having American boys and girls die for their interests.


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## buckeye45_73 (Mar 20, 2014)

BlindBoo said:


> In a phone conversation with US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel on Wednesday night, Ya'alon said that his comments "were not intended to express opposition, criticism or offense to the United States," adding that maintaining strong ties with the United States is Israel's utmost priority.
> 
> Ya'alon expressed his appreciation for the close relationship Israel shares with the United States, and emphasized his full commitment to cooperation between the two nations.
> 
> Ya'alon apologizes to US for inflammatory comments | JPost | Israel News




come on you know that just political cover. Maybe theyre counting on obamas "flexability"?


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## buckeye45_73 (Mar 20, 2014)

Seriously, what has obama done to scare iran?


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

"In his speech, the Russian leader lambasted Western nations for what he called hypocrisy, saying they had endorsed Kosovo's right to self-determination and independence from Serbia but now denied Crimeans the same rights.

"You cannot call the same thing black today and white tomorrow," Putin declared, saying that while he did not seek conflict with the West, Western partners had "crossed the line" over Ukraine and behaved "irresponsibly"."

"Ukraine's new leaders, in power since the overthrow of Yanukovich, included "neo-Nazis, Russophobes and anti-Semites", he added."

""Don't believe those who try to frighten you with Russia and who scream that other regions will follow after Crimea," Putin said. "We do not want a partition of Ukraine.""

"Putin said Russian forces in Crimea had taken great care to avoid any bloodshed, contrasting it with NATO's 1999 campaign to drive Serbian forces out of Kosovo. Reinforcements had remained within the treaty limit of 25,000 troops in the area, he said."

"Making clear Russia's concern at the possibility of the U.S.-led NATO military alliance expanding into Ukraine, he declared: "I do not want to be welcomed in Sevastopol (Crimean home of Russia's Black Sea fleet) by NATO sailors."

Putin signs Crimea treaty as Ukraine serviceman dies in attack | Reuters


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## velvtacheeze (Mar 20, 2014)

We can only hope we won't get involved in their war.  

The neocons in America have just finished licking their fingers clean of all the American blood they've feasted upon in the Iraq War, and they are still hungry for more. Unbelievable.


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

buckeye45_73 said:


> Seriously, what has obama done to scare iran?



Why should he scare them instead of treating them with diplomacy. How would you like some other nation trying to dictate to us what weapons we can or can not have?


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## The Rabbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Amazing how a thread like this brings out the jew-haters and Israel bashers.  But I repeat myself.

The minister is voicing the government's opinion: Obama is not a trustworthy ally.  The Saudis have already said as much.  The world alliances are shifting with the retreat of America and the diminution in American power.  It's almost like Obama planned it that way.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Pheonixops said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
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Because diplomacy has failed majorly?


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


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LOL, how are you defining "diplomacy"? Are you defining "diplomacy" as us telling them what they can do and they need to shut up, smile, and follow orders? That was their regions for thousands of years, I don't think that some of us look at our foreign policy inversely. 

Would we like Russia to try to recruit Mexico and other Latin American countries into their military alliance? Remember Our response to that in the 1980's? We have Our Monroe Doctrine and I am willing to bet that Russia has their own version of a "Monroe Doctrine". 

I personally think that we have squandered a good chance at having an alliance with Russia. Did we ever try to invite them into NATO? We could have formed a stronger partnership in fighting a common foe.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 20, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Amazing how a thread like this brings out the jew-haters and Israel bashers.  But I repeat myself.
> 
> The minister is voicing the government's opinion: Obama is not a trustworthy ally.  The Saudis have already said as much.  The world alliances are shifting with the retreat of America and the diminution in American power.  It's almost like Obama planned it that way.


That would be anyone who disagrees with israel and its policies.


The Rabbi said:


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How ya figure? Looks like its working just fine to me. No war,no American blood shed...seems A OK!


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## 1776 (Mar 20, 2014)

Israel shouldn't wait for Obama because Obama wants a nuclear Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth....


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> *Amazing how a thread like this brings out the jew-haters and Israel bashers. * But I repeat myself.
> 
> The minister is voicing the government's opinion: Obama is not a trustworthy ally.  The Saudis have already said as much.  The world alliances are shifting with the retreat of America and the diminution in American power.  It's almost like Obama planned it that way.



Maybe I missed it, can you point out any  statement or quote that is allegedly "bashing Israel "or "hating Jews"? Are you among the people who constantly complain and rail about "the Blacks" allegedly using the so-called "race card"? If so, why are you you are doing the same thing with your post above?


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## velvtacheeze (Mar 20, 2014)

1776 said:


> Israel shouldn't wait for Obama because Obama wants a nuclear Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth....





Listen to you.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Pheonixops said:


> The Rabbi said:
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Please give it a rest.  Quit playing stupid.  If that's possible.


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


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LOL, give what a rest? I asked you an honest question and this is the response you gave me, yet you showed no instances to support your assertion. I don't "bash Jews", I have no problem with the Israelis as a people, but I do disagree with some of the foreign policy and military decisions the Israelis have made. 

We are the big brother to Israel, they need us more than we need them and they shouldn't be "hammering" us over anything.


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## Kondor3 (Mar 20, 2014)

1776 said:


> Israel shouldn't wait for Obama because Obama wants a nuclear Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth....


All Israel has to do is to hold-on until January 20, 2017, and all their problems in Washington, D.C., will go away.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 20, 2014)

Maybe not. I got it from my top secret source that Michelle Obama is gonna run and get 2 more terms but Barack is going to be really running the country.


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## R.C. Christian (Mar 20, 2014)

OMG not this shit again. What nuclear weapons program? Proof, please.


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## CMike (Mar 20, 2014)

Israel did America's job when it bombed the nuclear facilities of

Iraq

Syria, 

and hopefully soon Iran


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## bluesman (Mar 20, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> 
> Israel 'cannot depend on U.S. in fight against Iran's nuclear program' | Mail Online
> 
> ...





Are you just posing as a right winger and saying stupid shit to embarrass right wingers?  They don't need the help.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 20, 2014)

CMike said:


> Israel did America's job when it bombed the nuclear facilities of
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> Iraq
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Why is it America's job to bomb another nation? They have done nothing wrong. Oh and are you gonna join the rest of the israel firsters in going to sign up for the IDF?


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## MACAULAY (Mar 20, 2014)

Pheonixops said:


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I sure did enjoy this exchange.  It is classic Churchill v. Chamberlain---which is the most famous because it is the most recent...and maybe because Churchill was so absolutely right, and Chamberlain was so abominably wrong.  Time will tell.

But this is by no means the first time a strong leader with little has cowed a weak leader with much.  It is common in history.

Who won this exchange?

The original poster, by the way is bold.  Not afraid to say what he thinks. I like it.  Some are put off, even if they would like to agree. 

But, look at the response. It is a series of partially rational conclusions, with no factual ass at all to back them up...only the unstated presumption that a liberal is just naturally smarter than a Heartland hayseed, so his opinion must prevail without any need to defend it. 

Obama's defenders on this board necessarily look as foolish as he does.


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

MACAULAY said:


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I enjoyed your post, thanks for the laugh! 

I'm neither Chamberlain or Churchill, I believe in having a very strong military and I also advocate using that military to knock the shit out of our foes if they attack or try to attack us. 

I would like you to qualify what I put in bold above with some actual examples and your rebuttals to them. China doesn't seem to be having any major problems around the world, where are their military bases? How many do they have compared to us?

List of countries with overseas military bases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Moonglow (Mar 20, 2014)

What US president has ever stopped the Iranian nuclear program????

What US president stopped N. Korea from making nukes or rockets???


None, but this is the worst president, M'kay...


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## AceRothstein (Mar 20, 2014)

MACAULAY said:


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You silly conservatives can't get on the same page. Half of you call Obama a war mongerer due to Libya, Syria and drone strikes. The other half calls him an appeaser.


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## The Rabbi (Mar 20, 2014)

AceRothstein said:


> You silly conservatives can't get on the same page. Half of you call Obama a war mongerer due to Libya, Syria and drone strikes. The other half calls him an appeaser.


He's neither a war monger nor an appeaser. He is a clueless boob.


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## Pheonixops (Mar 20, 2014)

CMike said:


> Israel did America's job when it bombed the nuclear facilities of
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> Iraq
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Israel did that for Israel and not us. Those countries were and are enemies with Israel...................


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## MACAULAY (Mar 20, 2014)

AceRothstein said:


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;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

I have been very consistent in calling him a complete pussy.

He was proven a liar in 2013.

And he is being proven a pussy in 2014.

He is a Chicago Community Organizer playing President. Expect things to get worse.  Putin ain't through with him, and neither are the Ayatollahs.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 20, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> Let them have at it. Not our fight. Bout time Israel decides to fight its own damn battles and stop having American boys and girls die for their interests.



Israel does not have to fight _any_ of its battles alone. They just declare war on whomever they please i.e. the Palestinians, the Lebanese, and we all jump to apologize for _every_ attack of their wars like a sick puppy.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 20, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Amazing how a thread like this brings out the jew-haters and Israel bashers.  But I repeat myself.
> 
> The minister is voicing the government's opinion: Obama is not a trustworthy ally.  The Saudis have already said as much.  The world alliances are shifting with the retreat of America and the diminution in American power.  It's almost like Obama planned it that way.



I am Jewish and have never given up hope that the Israelis will see through their modern wayward leaders and throw them out.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 20, 2014)

Pheonixops said:


> The Rabbi said:
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> > *Amazing how a thread like this brings out the jew-haters and Israel bashers*. But I repeat myself.
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When things get too hot for their fake cause, they always come up with this line.


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## Sally (Mar 20, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


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Whatever floats your boat, but the truth is that there are many anti-Semites and Israel bashing posters here, and yet these same posters never complain what is going on elsewhere no matter how many innocent people have been killed.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 20, 2014)

Sally said:


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You still haven't given us a single example of anti-Semitism or "Israel bashing" from posts on this forum.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 20, 2014)

Pheonixops said:


> The Rabbi said:
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I bet they can't find one.


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## Sally (Mar 20, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


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I have read enough of these posts to know what is going on so don't play coy.  Amazing how so much killing is going on in the rest of the Middle East, and posters close their eyes to this, but always have something to say against Israel and the Jews.  However, as I say -- whatever floats your boat.  You say what you want to say, and I will say what I want to say.  At least you and I are not murdering each other for our beliefs like we see in so many Middle East countries.  Good thing we are not Copts living in Egypt or Christians living in Syria or Iraq.  And we certainly would not want to live in Iran if we were Bahaiis or Christians.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 21, 2014)

Sally said:


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All the killing started with the slaughter of the Palestinians, and as OBL put it, his revenge of 9-11. Keep up the pretend game and unfortunately those with short memories will believe you though


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## The Rabbi (Mar 21, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


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Link to slaughter of Palestinians?


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## BlindBoo (Mar 21, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


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Nah, it started here:

1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

" ..... feeling that the British were unwilling to defend Jewish settlements from continuous Arab attacks, Palestinian Jews set up self-defense units, which came to be called the Haganah ("defense")."


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## toastman (Mar 21, 2014)

BlindBoo said:


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Yup. That is also how the Irgun came to being.


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## toastman (Mar 21, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


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You're right, there is no anti semitism or anti Israeli posts in this thread, but I suspect the Rabbi and Sally might be referring to ORION. 
He has posted some very disgusting and disturbing things about Jews (When I say Jews, I mean Jews, not Israelis or Zionists) AS WELL as nasty comment about Israel and Zionists in the Israel/Palestine forum and the Middle East forum.


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## Sally (Mar 21, 2014)

toastman said:


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And let's face it, Toastman, ORION is not the only one who has said nasty things about the Jews in general on these forums and on other message boards.  However, if someone like
QuickHitCurepon who claims to be Jewish overlooks these things, she must be one of those Leftists who want Israel to be destroyed as a Jewish State.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 22, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


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From the time, they became a nation, Israel has been practicing ethnic cleansing through pillaging and slaughter.

Palestinian terrorized by massacres
The massacre of Baldat al-Shaikh - 31.01.1947
The massacre of Deir Yasin - 09.04.1948
The massacre of Qibya - 14.10.1953
The massacre of Kufr Qasim - 29.10.1956
The massacre of Sabra and Shatila Camps - 16.09.1982
The massacre of Al-Aqsa Mosque - 08.10.1990
The massacre of Ebrahimi Mosque - 25.02.1994
The massacre of Qana - 18.04.1996
The massacre of Jenine refugees camp - 12.04.2002
The massacre of Qana 2 - 29.07.2006
The massacre of Beit Hanoun - 08.11.2006

Massacres - Palestine - Home of history



> Following an argument which broke out between Palestinian workers and Jewish workers in the Haifa Petroleum Refinery, leading to the deaths of a number of Palestinians and wounding and killing approximately sixty Jews. The Zionest ganges planned to take revenge on behalf of fellow Jews who had been killed by attacking Baldat al-Shaikh and Hawasa where most of the workers live.
> 
> On the night of January 30-31, 1947, a mixed force composed of the First Battalion of Palmakh and the Carmelie brigade (estimated at approximately 150 to 200 terrorists) launched a raid against the two towns under the leadership of Hayim Afinuam. Taking the homes by surprise as their inhabitants slept, they pelted them with hand grenades, then went inside, firing their machine guns. The terrorist attack led to the deaths of approximately sixty citizens inside their homes, most of them women, elderly and children.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 22, 2014)

Sally said:


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Where have you been? The whole country makes fun of the Jews. It is a National Pastime. That doesn't mean it rises any where near the status of Israel bashing or anti-Semitism.

BTW My mother is Jewish and I went to Sunday School when I was a child at Congregation Beth Am. I also went to dozens of lectures and services by Rabbi Axelrad.


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## aris2chat (Mar 22, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


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OMG you have a twisted history.
For one thing Al Aqsa .....>>Under the law, there is to be freedom of access and religion, but all religious prayer except Muslim is banned<<
As for Sabra and Shatila, that was done by Hobeika in retaliation to massacres by palestinians in Lebanon.  It was also used by the syrians, Hardane, as an opportunity to destroy three of it's enemies in one shot.
Some went on orders to remove the PLO fighter still in the camps and take them to the stadium so they could be shipped out.  Other went for revenge.
Israel's only mistakes was expecting the shabab to act like soldiers, and underestimating the heightened passion of the men after the assasination of the president elect.
Palestinian fighters were well fortified around the hospital, expecting safety there as well as a good vantage to put a gun on the roof.  It was not a massacre but a battle.
What happened later in the camps was two massacres carried out by amal and syria.


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## Billo_Really (Mar 22, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> Amazing how a thread like this brings out the jew-haters and Israel bashers.  But I repeat myself.


You're gonna have to, because this is the first post in this thread that has mentioned jews at all.


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## Billo_Really (Mar 22, 2014)

Sally said:


> And let's face it, Toastman, ORION is not the only one who has said nasty things about the Jews in general on these forums and on other message boards.  However, if someone like
> QuickHitCurepon who claims to be Jewish overlooks these things, she must be one of those Leftists who want Israel to be destroyed as a Jewish State.


Well, I'm a leftist and I could care less what state they are.  All I want them to do, is obey the law.  And if they don't, then they deserve to get bitch-slapped!

BTW, none of that has anything to do with Judaism.


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## Kondor3 (Mar 22, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> "..._From the time, they became a nation, Israel has been practicing ethnic cleansing through pillaging and slaughter_..."


Nonsense.

If that were true, there would not now be one single Muslim-Arab Palestinian still drawing air, between the River and the Sea.

There were numerous raids and land-grabs and expulsions by both sides during the early 1947-1949 timeframe, when things stabilized on the macro-level for a long time.

The Arabs stupidly provoked Israel into a preemptive strike in 1967 and still more stupidly attacked Israel and they all got their asses kicked and sent packing.

After that, the land-grabs and expulsions finally became a little more one-sided.

And the Arabs are now paying the price for their foolishness and intransigence and lack of preparedness and their petulance and stupidity.

After being attacked in 1967, the Israelis openly embarked upon a multi-generational mission: Reconquista.

Look up the Spanish original and contemplate its duration and tactics if need be; except that the Israelis are on a much tighter time-line, and are being far more humane about it - comparatively speaking - and are about 80% of the way to their goal in a mere 66 years; not bad, compared to the Spaniards.

The Israelis don't want to slaughter and pillage Muslim-Arab Palestinians; they just want them to leave, and to seek subsistence elsewhere.

The Israelis are going to get their way in the matter, so the Muslim-Arab Palestinians might as well avoid the Ramadan Rush, pack up now, get the hell outta Dodge, and start building new lives for themselves and their families someplace else where they're actually welcome.

Assuming that they can find a place that takes mad dogs and suicide bombers, that is.


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## Sally (Mar 22, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
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> > And let's face it, Toastman, ORION is not the only one who has said nasty things about the Jews in general on these forums and on other message boards.  However, if someone like
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Billy actually thinks he is fooling the readers.  Meanwhile, since this is the Middle East forum and Billy  has claimed he is a Catholic (and I hope a good one), why is it that all his condemnations have been for Israel and none for those who are murdering  his fellow Catholics and other Christians in the Middle East.  You would think Billy would be busy "bitch slapping" them instead of just focusing on Israel because there are Jews involved.


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## georgephillip (Mar 22, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> 
> Israel 'cannot depend on U.S. in fight against Iran's nuclear program' | Mail Online
> 
> ...


*Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons program.
Israel does.
Iran isn't supporting Svoboda in Ukraine.
Why i$ I$rael?*

"Less than a year ago, the World Jewish Congress called for Svoboda, which glorifies Nazi collaborators who facilitated the massacre of Ukrainian Jews during World War II, to be banned. 

"Svobodas hero is the Ukrainian nationalist and pro-Nazi war criminal Stepan Bandera, leader of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (OUN), which aided the Nazis in the mass murder of Jews and Poles. 

"The partys founder and leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, has spoken repeatedly of his determination to crush the 'Russkie-Yid mafia that controls Ukraine.'"

Israel backs far-right coup in Ukraine - World Socialist Web Site


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## Sally (Mar 22, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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So how does Mr. George know that Iran doesn't have a nuclear program?  Is he close friends with Ayatollah Khomeini.  Moreover, has Israel ever used any nukes in all the years that country has had them.  In fact, those nukes have been a deterrent for, as we all know, there are Muslim countries who would like to see Israel destroyed.  I hope all the readers note that Mr. George is now getting his news from the World Socialist Web.  I guess that is not unusual for someone who thinks like a Commie and can't stand people who have some money.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 22, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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We only have the word of Israeli's that they didn't instigate the upheaval that they then claim warrants retaliation. In any case, when there is a mutual fight, it is one of the greatest war crimes to then go afterwards and destroy whole towns and murder scores of innocent women and children as happened after the Haifa Refinery fight.



> On the night of January 30-31, 1947, a mixed force composed of the First Battalion of Palmakh and the Carmelie brigade (estimated at approximately 150 to 200 terrorists) launched a raid against the two towns under the leadership of Hayim Afinuam. Taking the homes by surprise as their inhabitants slept, they pelted them with hand grenades, then went inside, firing their machine guns. The terrorist attack led to the deaths of approximately sixty citizens inside their homes, most of them women, elderly and children.



Also, we don't know how many Israeli's were killed and how many were just wounded at Haifa. It could have been only one or two deaths and light injuries to the rest of them, for all we know.



> Following an argument which broke out between Palestinian workers and Jewish workers in the Haifa Petroleum Refinery, leading to the deaths of a number of Palestinians and wounding and killing approximately sixty Jews.



Massacres - Palestine - Home of history

The facts and information about the massacres are plastered all over the internet. It is never warranted to murder innocent men, women and children. There is nothing twisted about the history of the Israeli massacres except the minds of those committing the atrocities and those who support murdering children.



aris2chat said:


> It was also used by the syrians, Hardane, as an opportunity to destroy three of it's enemies in one shot.
> Some went on orders to remove the PLO fighter still in the camps and take them to the stadium so they could be shipped out.  Other went for revenge.
> Israel's only mistakes was expecting the shabab to act like soldiers, and underestimating the heightened passion of the men after the assasination of the president elect.
> Palestinian fighters were well fortified around the hospital, expecting safety there as well as a good vantage to put a gun on the roof.  It was not a massacre but a battle.
> What happened later in the camps was two massacres carried out by amal and syria.



During a massacre, there will always be someone among the victims who will try in vain to defend their lives. Wouldn't you if a mob of attackers came into your city to obviously murder everyone?

It was all carefully coordinated and done, at a slow and steady pace over the years, to move and scare Palestinians off their lands, one area at a time. Who in their right mind would stay where massacres are taking place?


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## toastman (Mar 22, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...



Why didn't you also upload the Wikipedia link of Arab massacres against Jews?? 
Both sides were killing eachother and both sides were trying to push eachother out. The dates of attacks against Arabs that you posted took place during the Mandatory Palestine Civil War and the Arab Israeli war. So like I said, both sides were trying to push eachother, but the Jews pushed harder and won.

And if Israel wanted, they could have expelled EVERY LAST ARAB from the land after winning the wars in 1948, 1967 and 1973, so stop whining about ethnic cleansing. The goal of the country committing the ethnic cleansing is to ultimately get rid of a certain people. The population of the Palestinians has been INCREASING , not decreasing.


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## toastman (Mar 22, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...



Right now , who do you think supports killing women and children? 
That would be the Palestinians. Lime you said, there is a lot about this conflict o. The internet, and there are countless videos and articles about Palestinians, so e extremist and other just civilians, expressing their glee over the deaths of Israeli civilians.
In fact, every time a successful suicide bombing or terrorist attack took place in Israel, people in Gaza would celebrate.


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## aris2chat (Mar 22, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...



200 men going into a camp of 40,000 + palestinians, well armed and well fortified, and less than 800 were killed in the fighting that went on for two days.


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## georgephillip (Mar 22, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...


*Jews who obtain great wealth from stealing Arab land and water or the privatization of state owned industries in the former Soviet Union are just as corrupt as those doing "God's Work" on Wall Street or rich ayatollahs in Iran, which has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty while Israel has not. 

Ha$bara $ally constantly resorts to criticizing context because she's too bu$y to refute content. Maybe she'll surprise me by refuting the following:
*

"The Zionist state, whose self-proclaimed raison d&#8217;être is the defence of the Jewish people against anti-Semitism, now gives unalloyed support to a European government in which for the *first time since 1945 an avowedly anti-Semitic, pro-Nazi party controls key levers of state power.*

Israel backs far-right coup in Ukraine - World Socialist Web Site


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## Roudy (Mar 22, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> Let them have at it. Not our fight. Bout time Israel decides to fight its own damn battles and stop having American boys and girls die for their interests.


Every fight Israel has been in it has been in its own. This one will not be any different. 

The OP is correct. Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.


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## guno (Mar 22, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> 
> Israel 'cannot depend on U.S. in fight against Iran's nuclear program' | Mail Online
> 
> ...



Strange how the bible thumping  goyim love Israel  and hates America, don't look now  but Israel really doesn't like the goyim and is using the goyim   

How to Kill Goyim and Influence People: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel | Alternet


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## Roudy (Mar 22, 2014)

AceRothstein said:


> MACAULAY said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...


Let's put it another way, he's made all the wrong moves at the wrong times. When he needed to be strong he wasn't, and when he needed to butt his nose out he didn't. As a result all the evil in the world has become emboldened and is gathering strength contemplating their next move against this weak paper tiger of a president and an embarrassment to this country. 

As John Mc Cain put it eloquently in 2008: "this is no time for a president that requires on the job training". How true those words ring today.


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## Roudy (Mar 22, 2014)

guno said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> ...


Where did you find that article, Internet toilet.com?


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## Roudy (Mar 22, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...


Ha ha ha ha. Palestinian population has multiplied six fold. Here let me refresh your memory at Arab animals are capable of, it all started with them, after all they've been committing ethnic cleansing and mass sting non Muslims since the 7th century:

*1929 Hebron massacre*

The Hebron massacre refers to the killing of sixty-seven Jews (including 23 college students) on 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of Mandatory Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by false rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places. The event also left scores seriously wounded or maimed. Jewish homes were pillaged and synagogues were ransacked. Soon after, all Hebron's Jews were evacuated by the British authorities. Many returned in 1931, but almost all were evacuated at the outbreak of the 1936&#8211;39 Arab revolt in Palestine. The massacre formed part of the 1929 Palestine riots, in which a total of 133 Jews were killed by Arabs, and *brought the centuries-old Jewish presence in Hebron to an end.*
The massacre, together with that of Jews in Safed, sent shock waves through Jewish communities in Palestine and around the world. It led to the re-organization and development of the Jewish paramilitary organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces.  In the metanarrative of Zionism, according to Michelle Campos, the event became 'a central symbol of Jewish persecution at the hands of bloodthirsty Arabs' and was 'engraved in the national psyche of Israeli Jews', particularly those who settled in Hebron after 1967. Hillel Cohen regards the massacre as marking a point-of-no-return in Arab-Jewish relations, and forcing the Mizrahi Jews to join forces with Zionism.

THE RAMPAGE AND THE KILLING

At about 8.30 am Saturday morning, the first attacks began to be launched against houses were Jews resided,[7] after a crowd of Arabs armed with staves, axes and knives appeared in the streets. The first location to be attacked was a large Jewish house on the main road. Two young boys were immediately killed, whereupon the mob entered the house and beat or stabbed the other occupants to death.

Cafferata appeared on the scene, gave orders to his constables to fire on the crowd and personally shot dead two of the attacking Arabs. While some dispersed, the rest managed to break through the pickets, shouting "on to the ghetto!" Requested reinforcements had not arrived in time. This later became the source of considerable acrimony.
According to a survivor, Aharon Reuven Bernzweig, "right after eight o'clock in the morning we heard screams. Arabs had begun breaking into Jewish homes. The screams pierced the heart of the heavens. We didn't know what to do&#8230; They were going from door to door, slaughtering everyone who was inside. The screams and the moans were terrible. People were crying Help! Help! But what could we do?"  Soon after news of the first victim had spread, forty people assembled in the house of Eliezer Dan Slonim. Slonim, the son of the Rabbi of Hebron, was a member on the city council and a director of the Anglo-Palestine Bank. He had excellent relations with the British and the Arabs and those seeking refuge with him were confident they would come to no harm. When the mob approached his door, they offered to spare the Sephardi community if he would hand over all the Ashkenazi yeshiva students. He refused, saying "we are all one people," whereupon he was shot dead along with his wife and 4-year-old son.[24] From the contemporary Hebrew press it appears that the rioters targeted the Zionist community for their massacre. Four-fifths of the victims were Ashkenazi Jews, though some had deep roots in the town, yet a dozen Jews of eastern origin, Sephardim and Maghrebi, were also killed. Gershon Ben-Zion, for example, the Beit Hadassah Clinic pharmacist, a cripple who had served both Jews and Arabs for 4 decades, was killed together with his family: his daughter was raped and then murdered, and his wife's hands were cut off.

LOOTING DESTRUCTION AND DESECRATION

The attack was accompanied by wanton destruction and looting. A Jewish hospital, which had provided treatment for Arabs, was attacked and ransacked. Numerous Jewish synagogues were vandalised and desecrated. According to one account, Torah scrolls in casings of silver and gold were looted from the synagogues and manuscripts of great antiquity were pilfered from the library of Rabbi Judah Bibas. The library, founded in 1852, was partly burned and destroyed. In one instance, a rabbi who had saved a Torah scroll from a blazing synagogue, later died from his burns. 

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=4RJRSA2XtrE"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=4RJRSA2XtrE[/ame]


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## MHunterB (Mar 22, 2014)

Roudy said:


> O.R.I.O.N said:
> 
> 
> > Let them have at it. Not our fight. Bout time Israel decides to fight its own damn battles and stop having American boys and girls die for their interests.
> ...



I think it's more like Obama = Carter on Quaaludes......  but the general idea is accurate : ))


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## georgephillip (Mar 22, 2014)

"The Jewish community was divided between recent Ashkenazi immigrants and an older population of descendants of Sephardim who had inhabited the town for centuries. Ashkenazi Jews had been established in the town for at least a century.[9] 

"The two communities, Sephardim and Ashkenazi, maintained separate schools, worshipped in separate synagogues, and did not intermarry. 

"The Sephardim were Arab-speakers, wore Arab-dress and were well-integrated, whereas many of the Ashkenazi community were yeshiva students who maintained 'foreign' ways, and had difficulties and misunderstandings with the Arab population.[10] 

"Since the Balfour Declaration of 1917, tensions had been growing between the Arab and Jewish communities in Palestine."

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## toastman (Mar 22, 2014)

Whats your point George?


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## toastman (Mar 22, 2014)

guno said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> ...



LOL you obviously didn't read the article, or you would not have posted it hahahaha!


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## georgephillip (Mar 22, 2014)

toastman said:


> Whats your point George?


Massacres involving Arab and Jew in Palestine increased greatly after 1917.


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## Roudy (Mar 22, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> "The Jewish community was divided between recent Ashkenazi immigrants and an older population of descendants of Sephardim who had inhabited the town for centuries. Ashkenazi Jews had been established in the town for at least a century.[9]
> 
> "The two communities, Sephardim and Ashkenazi, maintained separate schools, worshipped in separate synagogues, and did not intermarry.
> 
> ...


And that justified Muslim animals savagely massacring Jews who had been living there for centuries?  Why don't the Arab invading animals leave Hebron?


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## Roudy (Mar 22, 2014)

toastman said:


> Whats your point George?


He never has a point he's either busy lying about Jews or Israel, or trying to justify Islamic barbarity.


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## Roudy (Mar 22, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Whats your point George?
> ...


No actually Arab animals started killing Jews in the homeland of their ancient ancestors, like they have done throughout history all over the Middle East.


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## CMike (Mar 22, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > Israel did America's job when it bombed the nuclear facilities of
> ...



Since the US invaded Iraq-twice, it kinda helped that they no longer had a nuclear facility when the american military was there genius. 

You sound like an arab terrorist firster. Are you part of Al Qaida?


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## CMike (Mar 22, 2014)

guno said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> ...



Israel doesn't like arab terrorists and especially arab terrorist supports who have nukes.

It seems that you do.


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## CMike (Mar 22, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...



Yeah...then how come Israel has arab citizens, arab soldiers, and arab representatives in it's parliament?

They must have missed a whole bunch.

The rest of your "stuff" is more nonsense.


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## Hossfly (Mar 22, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Whats your point George?
> ...


Plus the Rothchilds and Rockefellers. Also anyone with money.


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## georgephillip (Mar 23, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "The Jewish community was divided between recent Ashkenazi immigrants and an older population of descendants of Sephardim who had inhabited the town for centuries. Ashkenazi Jews had been established in the town for at least a century.[9]
> ...


*Hey, Rothschild...Arab and Christian "animals" were part of Palestine's non-Jewish community, and they, too, had "civil and religious rights" early Zionists ignored:*

"His Majesty's government view with favour *the establishment in Palestine* of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the *civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Mar 23, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


*Anyone who earns a vast private fortune from war and debt isn't worth killing or dying for:*

"'*Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws*.'  ~Baron M.A. Rothschild (1)

&#8220;'The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our constitution&#8230; if the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, *the banks and corporations that will grow up around them* will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.' 
~ Thomas Jefferson (1)"

http://www.unc.edu/~ltolles/illuminati/moneycontrol.html


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> QuickHitCurepon said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



There were thousands of Palestinians massacred and what a handful of Jews? Why don't you post it?



toastman said:


> Both sides were killing eachother and both sides were trying to push eachother out.



All that counts is who always started it and who committed the atrocities. There were many isolated killings by the Arabs, but they were done by isolated individuals and groups, while the massacres were coordinated by deep-rooted Israeli mobs.

Even in the last two decades, suicide bombings have been done by individuals tied to Hamas, but no organization has control of every group within it.



toastman said:


> The dates of attacks against Arabs that you posted took place during the Mandatory Palestine Civil War and the Arab Israeli war. So like I said, both sides were trying to push eachother, but the Jews pushed harder and won.



I did not post all the massacres. There were many more, before and after that time.



toastman said:


> And if Israel wanted, they could have expelled EVERY LAST ARAB from the land after winning the wars in 1948, 1967 and 1973, so stop whining about ethnic cleansing. The goal of the country committing the ethnic cleansing is to ultimately get rid of a certain people. The population of the Palestinians has been INCREASING , not decreasing.



After a war, peace and autonomous borders are virtually always restored. Just look at Western Europe. Those countries fought often during the Middle Ages, but not much changed nationally.

When you say I should stop complaining about ethnic cleansing, you are admitting that it is going on. Right? Of course, it is. The Palestinians have been locked away in the prisons of the West Bank and Gaza for decades, and there is no end in sight to their captivity. What better clandestine way to control and cleanse a people than holding them in prison. And at the same time, settle in their lands with the ultimate goal to take every last square inch of it.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 23, 2014)

CMike said:


> QuickHitCurepon said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



They have been assimilated just like every foreigner that comes to the United States becomes assimilated.


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## Edgetho (Mar 23, 2014)

The Rabbi said:


> *Amazing how a thread like this brings out the jew-haters *and Israel bashers.  But I repeat myself.
> 
> The minister is voicing the government's opinion: Obama is not a trustworthy ally.  The Saudis have already said as much.  The world alliances are shifting with the retreat of America and the diminution in American power.  It's almost like Obama planned it that way.



Dewd, dimocrap scum are equal opportunity haters.  They hate ANYbody that disagrees with them....

Let a Black Man leave the dimocrap plantation and watch and see.

Let a Woman speak up against the REAL misogynists (dimocrap scum) in this world.

Let --

dimocraps are haters.  Always have been, always will be.

The worst that can be said about Conservatives is that we just don't give a fuck.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Mar 23, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...



Some dubious 'massacres' there.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 23, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> QuickHitCurepon said:
> 
> 
> > The Rabbi said:
> ...



Many sprees of the wholesale murder of women and children is "dubious"?


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## Edgetho (Mar 23, 2014)

Here's a look at the scum our dimocrap scum LOVE to defend......

*Palestinians Graduate From Throwing Rocks At Israeli Soldiers To Throwing Puppies*







Sickening.

Via Israellycool:



> Horror: Arab residents of Abu Dis Arab threw four puppies at a border police patrol, causing them deaths A heartbreaking action near the separation barrier in Abu Dis, East of Jerusalem. Arabs threw four bags with live puppies from behind the high walls at a border police patrol while on activity. The stunned police were still able hear the puppies whimpering. They opened the bags and found three puppies had died on the spot, and another puppy dying. The cub was transferred immediately to a vet, but died a short time later. The policemen were horrified by the brutality against the pups, and the talk of the day amongst their company dealt with the incident. These are exclusive images of the puppies in the bags, and after they removed the dead puppies.



Why do dimocrap scum defend murdering psychopaths?

They're the same people.  They think alike.

I could have posted about the 9 year old boy dimocrap scum's fellow travelers (mooslim scum) beheaded in Thailand....

But what's the point?  If you haven't figured out by now that dimocraps are the scum of the earth, it's too late to worry about it now


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## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Blah blah blah. The British offered the Arabs an Arab Palestine in Jordan. Arabs wanted the whole place to themselves and that's why they attacked the Jews. 

Arabs still want the whole of Israel destroyed so they can turn the place into another Islamic cesspool of hatred and violence. 

Too bad for you that they can't and never will, Mohomod.  Ha ha.


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## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...


Nope. Once the Arabs conducted their bloody massacres such as the Hebron massacre of 1929.  Jews decided to bear arms and protect themselves from the savages. In fact the Haganah and Irgun were formed exactly after 1929.


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## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> Here's a look at the scum our dimocrap scum LOVE to defend......
> 
> *Palestinians Graduate From Throwing Rocks At Israeli Soldiers To Throwing Puppies*
> 
> ...


This doesn't surprise me, because Muslims consider dogs filthy and worthy of killing.  It's in the Koran.


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## georgephillip (Mar 23, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


*How did the rise of Zionism affect relations between Jews and Arabs in Palestine after 1917?*

"The roots of the modern Arab-Israeli conflict lie in the rise of Zionism and Arab nationalism towards the end of the 19th century..."

"In 1917, Palestine was conquered by the British forces (including the Jewish Legion). 

"The British government issued the Balfour Declaration, which stated that the government viewed favourably 'the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people' but 'that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine'. 

"The Declaration was issued as a result of the belief of key members of the government, including Prime Minister David Lloyd George, that Jewish support was essential to winning the war; however, the declaration caused great disquiet in the Arab world."

Arab?Israeli conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sally (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Maybe if Mr. George was not so obsessed with his favorite scapegoats, the Jews, he could tell us about the relationship the Muslim Arabs have with those of other religions in the Middle East.  After all, this is the Middle East forum, and Mr. George should be interested in what is going on in the entire Middle East, not just one little piece of land there.  However, it is quite obvious that Mr. George enjoys pulling up and posting the same old stuff all the time.  How many times have we seen Mr. George pull this up from Wikipedia?


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## Sweet_Caroline (Mar 23, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > QuickHitCurepon said:
> ...



Get your facts straight before you accuse Israel of the above 'massacres'.


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## georgephillip (Mar 23, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


"After the war (to end all war), the area came under British rule as the British Mandate of Palestine. 

"*The area mandated to the British in 1923 included what is today Israel, the West Bank and Gaza Strip. 
*
"Transjordan eventually was carved into a separate British protectorate  the Emirate of Transjordan, which gained an autonomous status in 1928 and achieved complete independence in 1946 with the approval by the United Nations of the end of the British Mandate."

Arab?Israeli conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*So how did "Jews" from bum-fuck Moldavia become entitled to land Arabs have lived on for generations?*


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## Sally (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



I wonder if Mr. George can prove to us from a legitimate source, like the Encyclopedia Britanica that all these Arabs lived in the area for generations and generations.  No one is denying that there were some Arabs living there as visitors to the Holy Land mainly saw a few Bedouin.   I wonder if Mr. George can tell that Egypt official that he is wrong when he is telling those Gazans to come back to Egypt where they belong.  He can also tell tthose in charge in Britain to change their archives which state that the Arabs came flooding in when the Jews had jobs for them.  Mr. George, when don't you leave your little apartment and tell the immigrants in your area "Why don't you dumb-fucks go back to the country of your origin?"  Oh, I forget, those immigrants in your area are not Jews so you would never say that to them.


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## georgephillip (Mar 23, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


*Ha$bara $ally can't answer this simple question: Why are Jews entitled to rule all the land between the River and the sea today when there were ten times more Arabs in Palestine before the Balfour Declaration?*

"Sectarian conflict in Mandatory Palestine refers to political and armed struggle between Palestinian Arabs and Jewish Yishuv during the period of British rule (1929-1948). 

"The conflict started as a fallout of the Franco-Syrian War of 1920, during which Arab nationalists staged an anti-Jewish riot in Jerusalem and later attack by Arab pro-Syrian paramilitaries on the Jewish community of Tel Hai in Northern Galilee.

"The return of several hard-line Palestinian Arab nationalists, under the emerging leadership of Haj Amin al-Husseini, from Damascus to Mandatory Palestine marked the beginning of Palestinian Arab nationalist struggle towards establishment of a national home for Arabs of Palestine.[1] 

"Amin al-Husseini, the architect of the Palestinian Arab national movement, immediately marked Jewish national movement and Jewish immigration to Palestine as the sole enemy to his cause,[2] initiating large-scale riots against the Jews as early as 1920 in Jerusalem and in 1921 in Jaffa. 

"Among the results of the violence was the establishment of Jewish paramilitary force of Haganah. In 1929, a series of violent anti-Jewish riots was initiated by the Arab leadership. 

"The riots resulted in massive Jewish casualties in Hebron and Safed, and the evacuation of Jews from Hebron and Gaza."

Sectarian conflict in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Those massive Jewish casualties would not have occurred in 1929 had not the dominant empire of the day began flooding Palestine with (racist) European migrants a decade earlier.*


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## aris2chat (Mar 23, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> When you say I should stop complaining about ethnic cleansing, you are admitting that it is going on. Right? Of course, it is. The Palestinians have been locked away in the prisons of the West Bank and Gaza for decades, and there is no end in sight to their captivity. What better clandestine way to control and cleanse a people than holding them in prison. And at the same time, settle in their lands with the ultimate goal to take every last square inch of it.



Palestinian camps are not prisons, but towns, only they get services from the UN instead of the PA.
They can come and go as they please. They have bus service, "palestinian only", to and from the camps.


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## Sally (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Poor Herr George will not give us anything from a regular encyclopia, but he actually cannot prove that there were all these Arabs living there from generations and generations.  So sad when someone needs to have a scapegoat like Mr. George.  So, tell us, Herr George, since you are on the Middle East forum, have you anything to contribute what is going on in the rest of the Middle East these days.  I realize that the events occurring there do not involved your favorite scapegoats, the Jews, but things are happening there.  I guess Herr George has no concern for all the dead bodies piling up in the Middle East since he can't blame his favorite scapegoat, the Jews, for this.  All Herr George seems able to do is constantly pull the same stuff up that he has pulled up numerous times before, and has no interest in anything other than his favorite scapegoats.
Notice Herr George's dollar sign in my name.  Those who have nothing are always thinking about their lack of bucks.


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## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Nope nope nope.  Jordan is Arab Palestine. *How did Arab invaders from Egypt, Jordan and Syria become "Palestinians"? Ha ha *


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## CMike (Mar 23, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> QuickHitCurepon said:
> 
> 
> > When you say I should stop complaining about ethnic cleansing, you are admitting that it is going on. Right? Of course, it is. The Palestinians have been locked away in the prisons of the West Bank and Gaza for decades, and there is no end in sight to their captivity. What better clandestine way to control and cleanse a people than holding them in prison. And at the same time, settle in their lands with the ultimate goal to take every last square inch of it.
> ...



The camps they are in is because the arab leaders want to keep them in the camps.


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## CMike (Mar 23, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> Here's a look at the scum our dimocrap scum LOVE to defend......
> 
> *Palestinians Graduate From Throwing Rocks At Israeli Soldiers To Throwing Puppies*
> 
> ...



A new level of depravity, even for them.


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## SAYIT (Mar 23, 2014)

CMike said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a look at the scum our dimocrap scum LOVE to defend......
> ...


 
Unfortunately there is nothing new about their level of depravity.


----------



## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Because the British, who ruled the land, said they could. They not only encouraged them to immigrate, but fasclitated their immigration as well.

The Jews legally declared independence after cessation of the mandate because they had their shit together while the Arabs didn't. 

Georgie, imagine the 5 Arab states didn't attack Israel in 1948? The Palestinian Arabs would even more land then just the West Bank and Gaza on which they declared independence on in 1988.
The Palestinians are paying the mistakes of their Arab neighbours. This is a fact that you anti Zionists can't comprehend. 

Now, it's too late for any do-overs . 

Worked out pretty damn well for Israel though !


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 23, 2014)

Jews had a government in place since since 1942, at Palestinian League request.


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## georgephillip (Mar 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Think so, Toastie?
Currently there are equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living between the River and the sea, and every single individual residing there lives under laws written, interpreted, and enforced by Jews, for Jews, and for the benefit of Jews at the expense of non-Jews.

Jewish state or Democratic state or official Apartheid state?


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## Sally (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Say, does anyone think that Mr. George is going to give up his favorite scapegoats for a while and tell us some of the other news coming out of the Middle East.  I am sure he realizes this is the Middle East forum, and it is very telling of him to only concentrate on the Jews who do make a good scapegoat sincer they are small in number in comparison to the other groups in the world.  And, naturally, we know that innocent people are being murdered right and left in other Middle East countries so one would think that Mr. George, who must consider himself a civilized man, would be concerned with this instead of parroting out ad nauseam that same old stuff he has posted about before.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

Sally said:


> So how does Mr. George know that Iran doesn't have a nuclear program?


They have a nuclear program, but so far, no one has shown any evidence the program has been weaponized.




Sally said:


> Is he close friends with Ayatollah Khomeini.


That would be hard to do, since Khomeini died several years ago.




Sally said:


> Moreover, has Israel ever used any nukes in all the years that country has had them.


Did you know, Israel is the country that sold Iran its first nuclear reactor, not too long after the hostage crisis ended?




Sally said:


> In fact, those nukes have been a deterrent for, as we all know, there are Muslim countries who would like to see Israel destroyed.


I like to see myself on the beach with a blonde this tall, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get it.




Sally said:


> I hope all the readers note that Mr. George is now getting his news from the World Socialist Web.


I hope you know ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.




Sally said:


> I guess that is not unusual for someone who thinks like a Commie and can't stand people who have some money.


How do you know how he thinks?

Do you live in his brain?  Are you a brain-liver?


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## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



What does this lie have to do with my post??


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## georgephillip (Mar 23, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


"The Churchill White Paper (also known as The British White Paper of 1922) of 3 June 1922 clarified how Britain viewed the Balfour Declaration, 1917. That Declaration announced the British intent to aid the 'establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.' It took its name from Winston Churchill, the then-Secretary of State for the Colonies..."

"'Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become 'as Jewish as England is English.' His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded 'in Palestine.'* In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development"'.

Churchill White Paper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Your "Jordan is Palestine" pig won't fly, Bigot.
It must be hard when all your arguments are lies.*


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## aris2chat (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



For Israelis, not just for jews.
Palestinians have their own laws.  But this is the first article 

"Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation.  Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve"


----------



## Sally (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > So how does Mr. George know that Iran doesn't have a nuclear program?
> ...




Since youare now on the Middle East forum, how about you giving us your opinion about all your fellow Catholics being killed in the Middle East?  Naturally you don't want us to think you are a good little Commie like Mr. George.  Surely your little old brain can also concentrate on what is happening to the Catholics there.  After all, whatever is happening in one tiny little area of the Middle East has nothing to do with thousands of innocent people murdered elsehwere because of their religion.  How about it, Billy?  Tell us your opinion about what is happening to innocent Catholics in the Middle East?  It is not like anyone is asking you what is happening to them in Africa or Southeast Asia, but just the Middle East.  You must have something to say about this, or do you close you eyes to what is happening to your fellow Catholics because the Jews are not involved.  My goodness, even the Pope is terribly worried about what is happening, and one would think you would join him in this.


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## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

Sally said:


> Since youare now on the Middle East forum, how about you giving us your opinion about all your fellow Catholics being killed in the Middle East?  Naturally you don't want us to think you are a good little Commie like Mr. George.  Surely your little old brain can also concentrate on what is happening to the Catholics there.  After all, whatever is happening in one tiny little area of the Middle East has nothing to do with thousands of innocent people murdered elsehwere because of their religion.  How about it, Billy?  Tell us your opinion about what is happening to innocent Catholics in the Middle East?  It is not like anyone is asking you what is happening to them in Africa or Southeast Asia, but just the Middle East.  You must have something to say about this, or do you close you eyes to what is happening to your fellow Catholics because the Jews are not involved.  My goodness, even the Pope is terribly worried about what is happening, and one would think you would join him in this.


When are you going to join this thread?


----------



## Sally (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Since youare now on the Middle East forum, how about you giving us your opinion about all your fellow Catholics being killed in the Middle East?  Naturally you don't want us to think you are a good little Commie like Mr. George.  Surely your little old brain can also concentrate on what is happening to the Catholics there.  After all, whatever is happening in one tiny little area of the Middle East has nothing to do with thousands of innocent people murdered elsehwere because of their religion.  How about it, Billy?  Tell us your opinion about what is happening to innocent Catholics in the Middle East?  It is not like anyone is asking you what is happening to them in Africa or Southeast Asia, but just the Middle East.  You must have something to say about this, or do you close you eyes to what is happening to your fellow Catholics because the Jews are not involved.  My goodness, even the Pope is terribly worried about what is happening, and one would think you would join him in this.
> ...



This thread has followed the same old, same old nonsense from Mr. George that we have seen ad nauseam.  When are you actually going to contribute to the Middle East forum by telling us what is happening in other Middle East countries, or don't dead bodies lying around bother you at all, not even when the dead bodies are innocent Catholics.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Jordan was part of the Palestine mandate, the League of Nations gave Jordan to the Arab Muslims and eat of the Jordan River became Jewish Palestine aka Israel. 

The fact that the Arabs couldn't handle it and decided to attack Israel to destroy it, was an unfortunate move for the Arabs.  

You do know that all the Arab aggressions against the Jewish state wasn't to create a "Palestine" don't you, Mohommod?


----------



## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > So how does Mr. George know that Iran doesn't have a nuclear program?
> ...



*do you guys even have a brain?*


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 23, 2014)

Don't bother trying to reason with Bilbo about such things.

We had an exchange a couple of months ago that cured me of that.

In contemplating the 1967 SIx Day War, and in counterpoint to his kvetching about Israel's preemptive airstrike on Egyptian air assets, etc...

I asked him what he would have done if he were Israeli Prime Minister at that time...

He said that he would forego the preemptive strike and that he would have waited until Egyptian bombers had crossed over into Israeli airspace before firing a shot...

When I asked to the effect...

'_Even with your own bases and cities only seconds or minutes away, and even if it meant hundreds or thousands of civilian casualties and the destruction of strategic targets and war-assets and personnel formations, and at risk of being overwhelmed by the enemy?_'...

...he answered 'yes'.

I stopped paying Bilbo any serious attention on that very day, at that very moment.

He/she/it resides in an Alternate Universe.

One which would have a Nation (Israel, anyway) choose Literal Adherence to Law over actual Survival.

You can't use Common Sense to argue the wisdom of not allowing a theocracy's nuclear program to reach a 'weaponizing' state in the first place, rather than naively trusting that they will not.



Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...


----------



## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Don't bother trying to reason with Bilbo about such things.
> 
> We had an exchange a couple of months ago that cured me of that.
> 
> ...


But I like playing with Bobo.  He's such a macho internet tough guy. Ha ha.


----------



## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

I stopped trying to reason with him when he compared Jews getting gassed in the Holocaust to the IDF using tear gas as a means of riot dispersal.
It was then and there that I realized Bimbo is actually Sherri's brother


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> I stopped trying to reason with him when he compared Jews getting gassed in the Holocaust to the IDF using tear gas as a means of riot dispersal.
> It was then and there that I realized Bimbo is actually Sherri's brother


Are you that irresponsible, that you cannot take ownership over the things you do?

That was "your" comparison, not mine.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

Roudy said:


> *do you guys even have a brain?*


Well, at least you asked the question.

That little dishrag whore *Sally*, would just go on and act like she knew the answer.

You fuckers all have the exact same response to anyone criticizing Israel.

You all attack the person doing the criticizing, never addressing what the criticism is about.

And for that, all you fuckers can go fuck your fucking selves.


----------



## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I stopped trying to reason with him when he compared Jews getting gassed in the Holocaust to the IDF using tear gas as a means of riot dispersal.
> ...



Who are you trying to fool?? You brought up the video as a response to me saying : 'let me know when Israel gasses thousands of Palestinians' , followed by the words 'you were saying' ?

Yet somehow its my comparison??? LOL

That's some logic you got there


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Don't bother trying to reason with Bilbo about such things.
> 
> We had an exchange a couple of months ago that cured me of that.
> 
> ...


And no one can predict the future and say for certain, a hundred thousand civilians would die in such an attack.

You posed a hypothetical and acted like it was historical.


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## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *do you guys even have a brain?*
> ...



Attaboy Billo, let it all out !!!!!


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> Who are you trying to fool?? You brought up the video as a response to me saying : 'let me know when Israel gasses thousands of Palestinians' , followed by the words 'you were saying' ?
> 
> Yet somehow its my comparison??? LOL
> 
> That's some logic you got there


I posted a video of the IDF using tear gas on an innocent civilian.

You're the one trying to compare it to the Holocaust.


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## Hossfly (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *do you guys even have a brain?*
> ...


That's why we like you, Bilbo. You're so open and down to earth.


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't bother trying to reason with Bilbo about such things.
> ...


No, I posed a hypothetical as a test of common sense and manly character.

The results told me all that I'll ever need to know.


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## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> Attaboy Billo, let it all out !!!!!


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> No, I posed a hypothetical as a test of common sense and manly character.
> 
> The results told me all that I'll ever need to know.


You're free to believe whatever you want to believe, but the minute you try to act like a hypothetical is a fact, I'm gonna call you out on it.


----------



## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Who are you trying to fool?? You brought up the video as a response to me saying : 'let me know when Israel gasses thousands of Palestinians' , followed by the words 'you were saying' ?
> ...



And you posted it in response to my comment 'let me know when Israel gassed thousands of Palestinians to death' 
After posting the video you said 'you were saying?'


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## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> That's why we like you, Bilbo. You're so open and down to earth.


Who's this fucking "we" people?


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## Billo_Really (Mar 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> And you posted it in response to my comment 'let me know when Israel gassed thousands of Palestinians to death'
> After posting the video you said 'you were saying?'


That's right.  But it doesn't mean I intended for it to be a comparison, that's just how you're trying to spin it.


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## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > No, I posed a hypothetical as a test of common sense and manly character.
> ...



And the moment you try to compare thousands of Jews being gassed to death to the IDF using tear gas as a riot dispersal means, I will call you out on it, like I did.

You can deny it all you want, but it wont change what you posted


----------



## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Attaboy Billo, let it all out !!!!!



Funny for someone who complains about personal attacks


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > No, I posed a hypothetical as a test of common sense and manly character.
> ...


Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...

Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...

The Egyptian Air Force making preparations to bomb Israeli cities and military bases, was a fact...

Israeli preemptive strikes against the Arabs in order to neutralize those assets before they could inflict the harm that Nassar promised was a fact...

You decrying those preemptive strikes was a fact...

You stating that you would have waited until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into Israeli airspace was a fact...

Me confirming that by asking you if you would do so even if it cost the lives of hundred or thousands of your own civilians and the destruction of important targets and irreplaceable war assets and troop formations - just so that you could say you had abided-by the strict letter of international law - was a fact...

Your affirmative response to that confirmation-prompt was a fact...

My resultant assessment of your common sense and manly character is a fact...

_I'll_ let you know when I've run out of facts, boy...


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## Hossfly (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > That's why we like you, Bilbo. You're so open and down to earth.
> ...


You had your rabies shots this spring, Chester?


----------



## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Don't forget Egypt closing the Straits of Tiran, after Israel said that doing so would be a declaration of war


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## Kondor3 (Mar 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


Good catch... yep... forgot that important point... thanks!


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## toastman (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > And you posted it in response to my comment 'let me know when Israel gassed thousands of Palestinians to death'
> ...



That's how everyone saw it


----------



## Sally (Mar 23, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




You have to admit that the pimp for Hamas is very, very entertaining -- brainless but entertaining.  You can tell that he never reads anything but the propaganda he picks up.  You can tell it is the same line that others with the same mind set as he has parrot time and time again like a broken record.  Does anyone think that Billy is actually aware of what is happening in the Middle East?  If only he would get a new act, maybe we could get him a job in the Comedy Club.  That filthy mouth of his might have the audience roaring.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > *do you guys even have a brain?*
> ...


Awwww. Did terrorist ass licker flip his lid again?  Why are you IslamoNazi worshippers always such whiners?  Say one negative thing aka THE TRUTH about Muslims or Palestinians or their culture and Bobo starts putting on his suicide vest. Ha ha.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 23, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Bottom of the barrel one might say.


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 24, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


*1948*

"The parliamentary election in South Africa on 26 May 1948 represented a turning point in the country's history. The United Party, which had led the government since its foundation in 1933, and its leader, incumbent Prime Minister Jan Smuts, were ousted by the Reunited National Party (Herenigde Nasionale Party in Afrikaans), led by Daniel Francois Malan, a Dutch Reformed cleric..."

"The HNP, realizing that many White South Africans felt threatened by black political aspirations, pledged to implement a policy of strict racial segregation in all spheres of living. The Nationalists labelled this new system of social organisation 'apartheid' ('apartness' or 'separation'), the name by which it became universally known."

*Early Zionists would have felt at home, right Toastie?*

South African general election, 1948 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## toastman (Mar 24, 2014)

No George, that sounds more like an Arab Muslim mind of thing.


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## Kondor3 (Mar 24, 2014)

The Israelis tried for two decades (1948-1967) to make peace with the Palestinians before giving up on a comprehensive peace agreement...

The Israelis tried for another three decades (1967-2001) to make less ambitious peace arrangements, only to be met time-after-time with guerrilla warfare, suicide bombing campaigns, and rocket-barrage campaigns...

After a half-century of trying, the Israelis finally decided to wall-off the mad-dogs and crazies, via the West Bank Barrier and the Gaza Blockade, in order to minimize the Palestinians' ability to harm innocent Israeli citizens...

That's neither Apartheid nor Segregation...

That's a common-sense survival tactic...

Best to keep the mad dogs in their kennel...

The Egyptians and Jordians have come to realize this themselves, and are even _collaborating_ with the Israelis in their monitoring, isolating and blockading efforts...

Ahhhhh... life is good.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 24, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Wrong again Mohommod.  Sounds more like Muslim treatment of non Muslims:

&#8220;*Dhimmis* were excluded from public office and armed service, and were forbidden to bear arms. They were not allowed to ride horses or camels, to build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims, or to drink wine in public. They were not allowed to pray or mourn in loud voices as that might offend the Muslims. The dhimmi had to show public deference toward Muslims, always yielding them the center of the road. The dhimmi was not allowed to give evidence in court against a Muslim, and his oath was unacceptable in an Islamic court. To defend himself the dhimmi would have to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense. This left the dhimmi with little legal recourse when harmed by a Muslim. Dhimmis were also forced to wear distinctive clothing. In the ninth century, for example, *Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later.&#8221;*

Looks like the Muslims taught the Nazis a few things or two.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 24, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



I have a copy of the operational orders (9 pages) for the Imam Ali ben Abi Taleb Brigade from June 1966.  State of readiness was for dawn 26 May, 1967 "hour will be determined by the air force and air defense".  It is a bad (blurred) copy in arabic.  It has code words to start operation, destroy target, leave assembly area, leave embarkation area, back to reserve positions.  The task orders called Hadhad was "The destruction of the colony (Motzah) and the killing of all its (800) inhabitants".  The operation for Jordan was called Ra'ad.  It's a lot of stuff about the air attack on Eilat, bombing of air fields, fuel tank and electrical power station.  A lot of stuff about supplies, medical, administrative items involved in the operation.  Rather hard to read and fully understand.


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## QuickHitCurepon (Mar 27, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



It sounds like you are a technician of the least order. That is why you want to impose the harshest order upon the Palestinians.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 27, 2014)

QuickHitCurepon said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


What is so harsh about the truth that was posted, QuickHitTampon?


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 27, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...
> 
> Nassar publicly declaring, the week before, that the Arabs were preparing to annihilate Israel, was a fact...
> 
> ...


Why don't we cut the foreplay and get to the main fact that Israel started that war by firing the first shot.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 27, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...
> ...


O.K.  Then what?


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


*Try honesty, Menachem*

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. *We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.*'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Six-Day_War#Retrospective


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Good on Israel.  Good military strategy.  Pre-emptive strike or annihilation.  Which to choose?!


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


False dilemma


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Well, that's _ONE_ opinion.

Others hold differently, George, as a matter of conviction, rather than partisanship.


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...


Which conviction are you referring to, K3?


----------



## Roudy (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


Maybe the Arabs shouldn't have blocked the straight of Tiran, mobilized their armies at Israel's borders, and spewed rhetoric about pushing the Jews into the sea?  

Those were all acts of war and direct threats to the survival of Israel.  You don't have to fire first to start a war. Just as USSR brought its nuclear ICBM's into Cuba was an act of war and would have given the US the right to invade and / or attack had Russia not backed off. 

Or did you think Israel was going to  sit there and get sucker punched by the Arabs?  Keep dreaming.


----------



## toastman (Mar 28, 2014)

George, are you corgetting the fact that Egypt also close the Straits of Tiran, which Israel had said beforehand would be a declaration of war?


----------



## Roudy (Mar 28, 2014)

Stop whining. Arabs got what they asked for. A royal kosher buttkicking.


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## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


*Sucker punched like the Arabs in '56?*

"The Suez Crisis, also referred to as the Tripartite Aggression, Suez Canal Crisis, Suez War, or Second Arab-Israeli War[13][14] (Arabic: &#1571;&#1586;&#1605;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1608;&#1610;&#1587; /* &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1583;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1579;&#1604;&#1575;&#1579;&#1610;* Azmat al-Suways / al-&#699;Udw&#257;n al-Thul&#257;th&#299;&#8239;, "Suez Crisis"/ 'the Tripartite Aggression'; French: Crise du canal de Suez; Hebrew: &#1502;&#1489;&#1510;&#1506; &#1511;&#1491;&#1513;* Mivtza' Kadesh 'Operation Kadesh,' or &#1502;&#1500;&#1495;&#1502;&#1514; &#1505;&#1497;&#1504;&#1497; Mil&#7830;emet Sinai, 'Sinai War'), was a diplomatic and military confrontation in late 1956 between Egypt on one side, and Britain, France and Israel on the other, with the United States, the Soviet Union, and the United Nations playing major roles in forcing Britain, France and Israel to withdraw."

*Tell us how many Israeli flagged ships went through the Straits of Tiran during the two years prior to the '67 closing.*


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

toastman said:


> George, are you corgetting the fact that Egypt also close the Straits of Tiran, which Israel had said beforehand would be a declaration of war?


*Both sides were guilty of threatening war, but Israel had proved in 1956 its willingness to invade Arab territory. As far as the Straits of Tiran are concerned, there's a lot of controversy about the degree of existential threat that imposed on the Jewish state:*

"The assertion that the announcement of Straits of Tiran Blockade paved the way for war is disputed by Major General Indar Jit Rikhye, military adviser to the United Nations Secretary General, who called the accusation of a blockade 'questionable,' pointing out that an Israeli-flagged ship had not passed through the straits in two years, and that 'The U.A.R. [Egyptian] navy had searched a couple of ships after the establishment of the blockade and thereafter relaxed its implementation.'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Hossfly (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
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None, George. They all flew Marshall Islands flags.


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## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Why did they do that, Hoss?


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## Hossfly (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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Tax purposes?


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## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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*Carbon credits??*

"From 1946 to 1958, as the site of the Pacific Proving Grounds, the U.S. tested 67 nuclear weapons in the Marshall Islands,[17] including the largest nuclear test the U.S. ever conducted, Castle Bravo.[18] In 1956, the United States Atomic Energy Commission regarded the Marshall Islands as 'by far the most contaminated place in the world'".

Marshall Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## aris2chat (Mar 28, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Allowing the Egyptians and Syrians to amass troops on the Israeli borders in 1967 was a fact...
> ...



Egypt declared war on Israel.


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## aris2chat (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > George, are you corgetting the fact that Egypt also close the Straits of Tiran, which Israel had said beforehand would be a declaration of war?
> ...



Israel did what it needed to so Egypt would understand not to wage war on Israel.  If that meant going all the way to outskirts of Cairo to or Damascus to make the point then they will and did.
Israel will take what ever action it needs to protect it's people.


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## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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"Did Israel plan a war?[edit]

"For[edit]

"The USSR had come to similar conclusions: '... it is clear that the Soviet assessment from mid-May 1967 that Israel was about to strike at Syria was correct and well founded, and was not merely based on the public threats issued by Eshkol, Rabin and Yariv.'.[168]

"Against[edit]

"Some of Israel's political leaders, however, hoped for a diplomatic solution.[95]

"Did Egypt plan a war?[edit]

"For[edit]

"According to Shlaim & Louis, in the end of May 1967, Nasser claimed in a public speech to have been aware of the [[Straits of Tiran]] closure implications: 'Taking over Sharm El Sheikh meant confrontation with Israel. It also means that we ready to enter a general war with Israel. It was not a separate operation'.[169]

"Against[edit]

"Yitzhak Rabin, who served as the Chief of the General Staff for Israel during the war stated: 'I do not believe that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent into Sinai on May 14 would not have been enough to unleash an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.'

"Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban wrote in his autobiography that he found 'Nasser's assurance that he did not plan an armed attack' convincing, adding that 'Nasser did not want war; he wanted victory without war'.[170][171] As Abba Eban put it, Nasser wanted victory without a war[172]

"Some analysts suggest that Nasser took actions aimed at reaping political gains, which he knew carried a high risk of precipitating military hostilities. On this view, Nasser's willingness to take such risks was based on his fundamental underestimation of Israel's capacity for independent and effective military action.[173]"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## aris2chat (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Egypt had orders for Operation Ra'ad to attack Israel back in May, Battle Order #6/67 to commence dawn 26/5/1967.  The signal wavelength was 133.3






Top Secret cover page of the orders Imam al ben Abi Taleb Brigade
(you can get anyone that reads arabic to translate)


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## SAYIT (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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In the weeks leading up to the Six Day War:

President Abdul Rahman Arif of Iraq said that "the existence of Israel is an error which must be recitified. This is an opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948".[92] The Iraqi Prime Minister predicted that "there will be practically no Jewish survivors".

In May 1967, Hafez al-Assad, then Syria's Defense Minister declared: "Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian Army, with its finger on the trigger, is united... I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation."[93]


Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

SAYIT said:


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*Who shot first in '67?
The same people who invaded Arab land in '56.
The same people who inflicted a Jewish state by force of arms on twice as many non-Jews in '48.*


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## Roudy (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
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Yes, Arabs have no morals or ethics, the animals attacked Israel on the Holiest day of the Jewish calendar, a day when all Jews worldwide are suppose to fast and pray. This is the respect they have for other religions. After all didn't their prophet Mohammad attack and rob caravans and kill and rape travelers during the month of Ramadan?  What else can we expect from those who are supposed to emulate "the prophet and final messenger"?  Of course we all know what happened after the attack, ARABS AGAIN GOT THEIR BUTTS KICKED!  Ha ha ha. Pathetic. 

Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Yom Kippur War, or October War (Hebrew: &#1502;&#1500;&#1495;&#1502;&#1514; &#1497;&#1493;&#1501; &#1492;&#1499;&#1497;&#1508;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501;* Mil&#7830;emet Yom HaKipurim or &#1502;&#1500;&#1495;&#1502;&#1514; &#1497;&#1493;&#1501; &#1499;&#1497;&#1508;&#1493;&#1512; Mil&#7830;emet Yom Kipur; Arabic: &#1581;&#1585;&#1576; &#1571;&#1603;&#1578;&#1608;&#1576;&#1585;* &#7717;arb &#702;Ukt&#333;bar, or &#1581;&#1585;&#1576; &#1578;&#1588;&#1585;&#1610;&#1606; &#7717;arb Tir&#299;n), also known as the 1973 ArabIsraeli War, was a war fought by the coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel from October 6 to 25, 1973.

The war began when the Arab coalition launched a joint surprise attack on Israeli positions in the Israeli-occupied territories on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in Judaism, which occurred that year during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Egyptian and Syrian forces crossed ceasefire lines to enter the Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights respectively, which had been captured by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.


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## Roudy (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Arabs by massing their armies at Israel's borders and closing the straight of Tiran shot first.  No nation would sit there and wait.  Especially with the rhetoric coming out of the Arab nations.  You seem unable to understand the basic concept of clear and imminent danger.


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## georgephillip (Mar 28, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
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Jews rejected Sadat's offer of a non-belligerency in exchange for Israeli withdrawal from the Occupied Territories, proving some people never miss a chance to miss a chance at security over expansion.


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## Roudy (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
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Ha ha.  Good joke.  According to Arabs, all of Israel was occupied.  That's why they attacked Israel in 1948 from it's inception.  

Newsflash to Georgie Porgy, the Arab aggressions against Israel were never to create this mythical Palestine you keep harping about.  It was simply to destroy to Jewish state and divide the spoils between themselves. 

 The Arabs themselves scoffed at the concept of a Palestine, mostly because a "Palestinian" meant the person was a JEW.

True story.


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## Kondor3 (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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'Preemptive Strike vs. Annihilation.


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## SAYIT (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
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If you were hearing those Arab statements, coupled with the already mentioned *numerous Arab acts of war*, would you have sat on your hands? Could you? Could you tell other Israelis and your family "don't worry ... this is no big deal." (If you say yes, you are a liar or a fool.)


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## toastman (Mar 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
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Egypt statrted the war. All the facts have been presented to you but you choose to ignore them.
As for 1948, Israel legally declared independence after cessation of the Mandate. I don't know where you get your 'inflicted their Jewish state by force of Arms on 1.5 million Arabs' Palestinian lie. 

I have a question for you. When will you stop whining over Israels existence????


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## toastman (Mar 28, 2014)

Thank God Israel took initiative and destroyed the Egyptian air force in 1967!
And how pathetic that the other Arab states, who were not only wayyy bigger than Israel, but ATTACKED ISRAEL FROM ALL SIDES, could 't beat one little country. Then AGAIN in 1973. Hahahaha

LONG LIVE ISRAEL!!!


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## SAYIT (Mar 28, 2014)

toastman said:


> Thank God Israel took initiative and destroyed the Egyptian air force in 1967!
> And how pathetic that the other Arab states, who were not only wayyy bigger than Israel, but ATTACKED ISRAEL FROM ALL SIDES, could 't beat one little country. Then AGAIN in 1973. Hahahaha
> 
> LONG LIVE ISRAEL!!!



What they did to Israel on Yom Kipper, 1973 validated Israel's actions of June, 1967. 
Given the opportunity the Arabs would have attacked 6 years earlier and 1973 proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.


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## georgephillip (Mar 29, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
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*Annihilation was not an option in '67, as even prominent IDF aggressors fully admitted:*

"Major General Mattityahu Peled, the Chief of Logistics for the Armed Forces during the war, said the survival argument was 'a bluff which was born and developed only after the war ... When we spoke of the war in the General Staff, we talked of the political ramifications if we didn't go to war  what would happen to Israel in the next 25 years. Never of survival today.'[162] 

"Peled also stated that 'To pretend that the Egyptian forces massed on our frontiers were in a position to threaten the existence of Israel constitutes *an insult not only to the intelligence of anyone capable of analyzing this sort of situation*, but above all an insult to Zahal (Israeli military).'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## SAYIT (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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Hindsight is 20/20. According to the Arabs annihilation was not only the goal, but imminent:
In the weeks leading up to the Six Day War:

President Abdul Rahman Arif of Iraq said that "the existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is an opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948".[92] *The Iraqi Prime Minister predicted that "there will be practically no Jewish survivors*".

In May 1967, Hafez al-Assad, then Syria's Defense Minister declared: "Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian Army, with its finger on the trigger, is united... *I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation*."[93]


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## SAYIT (Mar 29, 2014)

There is little doubt that Israel was prepared for war in 1967. They had little choice. 
But had they not taken out the Arab's air power in a brilliantly successful preemptive strike the war would have had a vastly different outcome.


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## georgephillip (Mar 29, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> There is little doubt that Israel was prepared for war in 1967. They had little choice.
> But had they not taken out the Arab's air power in a brilliantly successful preemptive strike the war would have had a vastly different outcome.


Exactly. There would've been no war and no Occupied Territories today.
Israel as a Jewish state was created to ensure eternal conflict in the Middle East.


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## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > There is little doubt that Israel was prepared for war in 1967. They had little choice.
> ...


The occupied territories were occupied by Jordan and Egypt for 20 years when five Arab nations attacked the newly formed state of Israel in 1948. During their so called occupation nobody asked for or talked about this mythical Palestine, and the Egyptian and Jordanian "occupation" of their land. Ha ha ha. 

You see Mohammad, no such thing as Palestine, this was all about destroying the a Jewish state.


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## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
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Unfortunately extermination was always the goal.  To finish what Hitler started.
If Egypt, Syria and Jordan had succeeded, there would have been no palestine.  Each would have occupied and annexed, officially or not.  It was never the intent to create a palestine.  It was never about the palestinian people.  Syria, Egypt, even Jordan would have preferred a greater arab state.  They would have kept the spoils of war on Israel, not shared them with the refugees.


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## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Thank God Israel took initiative and destroyed the Egyptian air force in 1967!
> ...



Control of the air has always been vital to Israel.  In '82 Israel decimated syria air force wiping out the missiles and all their planes in the larges air battle since WWII.

This was motivation for getting rid of Israel, the President-to-be and to take Lebanon.


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## georgephillip (Mar 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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*The aggressor in 1967 had a goal to finish what Herzl, not Hitler, started*

"According to Martin van Creveld, the IDF pressed for war: '...the concept of 'defensible borders' was not even part of the IDFs own vocabulary. Anyone who will look for it in the military literature of the time will do so in vain. Instead, Israel's commanders based their thought on the 1948 war and, especially, their 1956 triumph over the Egyptians in which, from then Chief of Staff Dayan down, they had gained their spurs. When the 1967 crisis broke they felt certain of their ability to win a "decisive, quick and elegant" victory, as one of their number, General Haim Bar Lev, put it, and *pressed the government to start the war as soon as possible*'".

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> aris2chat said:
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The aggressor is the whoever commits acts of war, and presents a clear and imminent danger to a nation's survival. 

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


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## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > There is little doubt that Israel was prepared for war in 1967. They had little choice.
> ...



Such anti Jewish drivel Georgie boy.

How much conflict would there be if Arabs didn't bother Israel?? Lets see if you can give an honest answer


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## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

>> The committee, headed by former Supreme Court Justice Edmond Levy, claims that Israel&#8217;s control over the West Bank cannot be seen as &#8220;occupation&#8221; since no country has recognized sovereignty over the territory. Therefore, the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prevents the transfer of a civilian population by an occupying force into the occupied territory, does not apply to the West Bank. Justice Levy recommends that the Israeli government end the temporary status of the settlements and register the settlers&#8217; control over the territory.<<http://go.ynet.co.il/pic/news/09.07.12.pdf


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## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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Arabs / Muslims have always been slaughtering each other and others, and will continue to do so. Their religion demands blood.


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## Hossfly (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > There is little doubt that Israel was prepared for war in 1967. They had little choice.
> ...


You mean like Muslim countries fighting one another? That's good!


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## georgephillip (Mar 29, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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*Maybe this would be a good time to dissolve the Arab League?*

"In fact; Arab League summits are increasingly becoming some sort of a ceremonial manifestation of this desolate state of paralysis. 

"Instead of serving as a dynamic springboard for proactive initiatives to counter the various challenges facing the Arab world today; the only function these meetings seem to serve is to give some sort of an Arab caveat to American dictates; thus what best suits Americas interests in our region is prioritized while Palestine, the alleged 'central cause' of the Arab World, will always remain on the back-burner till its swallowed whole by Israeli settlements and colonies; nothing is too much to make sure Israeli occupation is comfortable and unencumbered in its pursuit of a 'Jewish State' on Arab Palestinian lands."

*Or subject the Jewish state to the same sanctions as Iran?*

Time to Dissolve the Arab League? » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


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## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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The committee, headed by former Supreme Court Justice Edmond Levy, claims that Israels control over the West Bank cannot be seen as occupation since no country has recognized sovereignty over the territory. Therefore, the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prevents the transfer of a civilian population by an occupying force into the occupied territory, does not apply to the West Bank. 
http://go.ynet.co.il/pic/news/09.07.12.pdf


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## Hossfly (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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Yes dissolve the Arab League but why sanction Israel? They don't bother anybody.


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## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Georgie, I think you need to get out of your apartment and get some fresh air. 
It's Saturday night and you live in Los Angeles. There's got to be something better to do then stay at home and read anti Israel articles.


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## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Egypt declared war on Israel.


Where's your proof of that?

I realize Nassar was a big-mouth asshole, but still, you made a claim, you need to back it up.  Where's the proof?

It still doesn't change the fact that the war didn't start until Israel rolled it's tanks into Egypt.  And in international circles, that's called an "invasion".

BTW, I find it funny Israel went to war with Egypt, so it could keep receiving oil from Iran.



> _From *George's* link:
> Israel viewed the Straits of Tiran as a vital interest as it's where Israel received vital imports, *mainly oil from Iran*, and it threatened Israels ability to develop the Negev._


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## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> Georgie, I think you need to get out of your apartment and get some fresh air.
> It's Saturday night and you live in Los Angeles. There's got to be something better to do then stay at home and read anti Israel articles.


I need to trash something you said earlier.

_More on that later..._


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


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## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> Georgie, I think you need to get out of your apartment and get some fresh air.
> It's Saturday night and you live in Los Angeles. There's got to be something better to do then stay at home and read anti Israel articles.



Maybe keep the computer monitor from falling over in the earthquakes?


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## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Egypt declared war on Israel.
> ...


It's a good think Bobo the DUFUS isn't in charge of any nation's defense. He'll wait till they get attacked or nuked before he reacted.


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## Kondor3 (Mar 29, 2014)

The Muslims made the mistake of threatening and provoking Israel in a half-dozen ways in the weeks leading up to the 1967 War.

If you cannot back up your threats (such as Nassar's, speaking in a pan-Arab context), you should not make the threats in the first place.

You cannot piss and moan afterwards, and say that you were not actually powerful enough at the time to carry out your threat, and thereby should be considered by History as having posed none.

Horseshit.

Don't want to get your ass kicked?

Then don't be stupid enough to make Extermination Threats that you cannot carry out, in the first place.

Duh.

Otherwise, don't come back like whiny little bitches, 30 or 40 years later, pissing and moaning about not really being serious in your threats or not having enough muscle to carry them out - therefore making you the victim rather than the aggressor - or complaining about how the Winners kept what they took from you by force of arms, in a war you provoked.

Honest-to-God... anybody stupid enough to do that and to let that happen to them must have camel shit for brains... Idiotic, Excuse-making, Under-performing Losers.


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## georgephillip (Mar 29, 2014)

*Anyone stupid enough to think Egypt posed an existential threat to Israel in 1967 would probably benefit from having camel-shit for brains*

"Major General Mattityahu Peled, the Chief of Logistics for the Armed Forces during the war, said the survival argument was "a bluff which was born and developed only after the war ... When we spoke of the war in the General Staff, we talked of the political ramifications if we didn't go to war  what would happen to Israel in the next 25 years. Never of survival today.'[162] 

"Peled also stated that 'To pretend that the Egyptian forces massed on our frontiers were in a position to threaten the existence of Israel *constitutes an insult not only to the intelligence of anyone capable of analyzing this sort of situation*, but above all an insult to Zahal (Israeli military)'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Kondor3 (Mar 29, 2014)

Doesn't matter.

The Israelis were either (a) truly threatened or (b) able to spin it that way.

And if they were able to spin it that way, it was because the Arabs had (1) closed down the Straits in an attempt to strangle Israeli commerce and (2) made Existence-caliber threats, such as those served-up by the Egyptian and Iraqi leaders.

Had the Arabs (1) not closed the Straits and (2) not made such threats, then the Israelis would not have been able to spin it in the way they did.

Q.E.D.

Whether or not a Survival Threat truly existed, the Arabs were the idiots who brought about the whole thing, with their Straits closure and threats, thereby giving the Israelis the excuse they needed, on a silver platter, to kick the shit out of the Arabs again and to pull off a fabulous Land-Grab.

Dumbass Arabs.

Next time, be sure you can back up your big mouths with actions.



georgephillip said:


> Anyone stupid enough to think Egypt posed an existential threat to Israel in 1967 would probably benefit from having camel-shit for brains
> 
> "Major General Mattityahu Peled, the Chief of Logistics for the Armed Forces during the war, said the survival argument was "a bluff which was born and developed only after the war ... When we spoke of the war in the General Staff, we talked of the political ramifications if we didn't go to war &#8212; what would happen to Israel in the next 25 years. Never of survival today.'[162]
> 
> ...


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## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Thank God Israel took initiative and destroyed the Egyptian air force in 1967!
> ...


Yup, not only did they launch their attack on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, it was during during their own holy month of Ramadan.  So not only do the animals have no respect for other faiths, they don't even give a crap about their own.


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## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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Dissolving the Arab league means that Arabs will kill each other even more.  Would that make you happy, "Georgie Porgy kiss the Palestinian terrorist butts and make them cry?"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CQpvc8quQ8]Toto - Georgy Porgy - YouTube[/ame]


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## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> *Anyone stupid enough to think Egypt posed an existential threat to Israel in 1967 would probably benefit from having camel-shit for brains*
> 
> "Major General Mattityahu Peled, the Chief of Logistics for the Armed Forces during the war, said the survival argument was "a bluff which was born and developed only after the war ... When we spoke of the war in the General Staff, we talked of the political ramifications if we didn't go to war &#8212; what would happen to Israel in the next 25 years. Never of survival today.'[162]
> 
> ...


Anybody stupid enough to think that five Arab nations with massive troop buildups along Israel's border, and daily threats by their leaders of how they will drive the Jews into the sea, wasn't an existential threat to Israel is smoking some strong Saudi Arabian camel dung hashish.


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## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> *Anyone stupid enough to think Egypt posed an existential threat to Israel in 1967 would probably benefit from having camel-shit for brains*
> 
> "Major General Mattityahu Peled, the Chief of Logistics for the Armed Forces during the war, said the survival argument was "a bluff which was born and developed only after the war ... When we spoke of the war in the General Staff, we talked of the political ramifications if we didn't go to war  what would happen to Israel in the next 25 years. Never of survival today.'[162]
> 
> ...



Anti Zionist Retards: Re writing and distorting history since 1948.

Even when George is presented with evidence that disproves his lie that Israel was not threatened prior to the 6 day war, he still continues his Arab horseshit.

You lost George. Move on. Nothing you say will change anything. You're just making a fool out of yourself (as usual).


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## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Anyone stupid enough to think Egypt posed an existential threat to Israel in 1967 would probably benefit from having camel-shit for brains*
> ...



And closing the Straits if Tiran.


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## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Georgie, I think you need to get out of your apartment and get some fresh air.
> ...



Well you can try, but as long as you don't compare tens of thousands of Jews being gassed to death to the IDF using tear gas as a means of riot dispersal


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## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Anyone stupid enough to think Egypt posed an existential threat to Israel in 1967 would probably benefit from having camel-shit for brains*
> ...



Israel was outnumbered 4 to 1 not just personnel but equipment as well.  Israel was still using pipers and egypt had vampires and migs.
Israel may have had the training, heart and determination, but it was on paper never supposed to have gone Israel's way.  Israel learned to playing chess while the arabs were playing candyland.  Israel might have been outnumbers and gunned but Israel outwitted the arabs on all fronts.  Israel did not have a choice, for them it was life or death.


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## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> Well you can try, but as long as you don't compare tens of thousands of Jews being gassed to death to the IDF using tear gas as a means of riot dispersal


That is (and always has been) your deal, not mine.

Are all snowbacks this disingenuous?

Get a little Molson Golden in you and you fuckers will say anything!


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Israel was outnumbered 4 to 1 not just personnel but equipment as well.  Israel was still using pipers and egypt had vampires and migs.
> Israel may have had the training, heart and determination, but it was on paper never supposed to have gone Israel's way.  Israel learned to playing chess while the arabs were playing candyland.  Israel might have been outnumbers and gunned but Israel outwitted the arabs on all fronts.  Israel did not have a choice, for them it was life or death.


That's what you're trying to spin it in to 50 years later.

The fact is, it was your choice and you chose to send your tanks into Egypt.

The biggest thing I hate about you fuckers, is how irresponsible you are.

You simply refuse to take ownership over the things you do.

That's why if I was President, I'd say, _"Enough of this shit!" _and send in the fucking marines and force your country to be held accountable, whether you liked it or not.



_Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight 
Gonna grab some Afternoon Delight 
My motto's always been "When it's right, it's right." 
Why wait until the middle of a cold, dark night? 

Skyrockets in flight! 
Afternoon Delight! 
Afternoon Delight! 
Afternoon Delight! _


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Israel was outnumbered 4 to 1 not just personnel but equipment as well.  Israel was still using pipers and egypt had vampires and migs.
> ...


Why would you send in the Marines?

What business is it of ours?


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> It's a good think Bobo the DUFUS isn't in charge of any nation's defense. He'll wait till they get attacked or nuked before he reacted.


That's because I'm an American who believes that no one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit.

Egypt didn't attack Israel; Israel attacked Egypt.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Maybe keep the computer monitor from falling over in the earthquakes?


That was quite a trip!

My whole building shook.


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > It's a good think Bobo the DUFUS isn't in charge of any nation's defense. He'll wait till they get attacked or nuked before he reacted.
> ...



Yes, and you know very well why Israel attacked them, but you refuse to accept the truth


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Israel was outnumbered 4 to 1 not just personnel but equipment as well.  Israel was still using pipers and egypt had vampires and migs.
> ...



Egypt had declared war on Israel.  Was Israel supposed to bare it's neck and let Egypt cut it's head off?


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > It's a good think Bobo the DUFUS isn't in charge of any nation's defense. He'll wait till they get attacked or nuked before he reacted.
> ...


That's because you're a kind, sensitive person, who cares about the feelings others, Rodney.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> Anti Zionist Retards: Re writing and distorting history since 1948.
> 
> Even when George is presented with evidence that disproves his lie that Israel was not threatened prior to the 6 day war, he still continues his Arab horseshit.
> 
> You lost George. Move on. Nothing you say will change anything. You're just making a fool out of yourself (as usual).


What about the evidence he presented?

Doesn't that make you an even bigger fool?

Especially, since your entire argument rests merely on conjecture...

_..."what Egypt would've done"..._

...not what they did.  You keep saying they would've attacked, but they didn't_.............ISRAEL DID!_

So who's the one trying to "re-write" history here?


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Well you can try, but as long as you don't compare tens of thousands of Jews being gassed to death to the IDF using tear gas as a means of riot dispersal
> ...



You can insult me all you want , but everyone saw it and said the same thing. So no, it's not just my deal. 
The fact that you keep denying it shows that eve you realize the stupidity of what you posted.


----------



## Vigilante (Mar 29, 2014)




----------



## Hossfly (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Anti Zionist Retards: Re writing and distorting history since 1948.
> ...


Billyboy, when a country declares war on another, the game is afoot. Can't you understand a damn thing?


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > It's a good think Bobo the DUFUS isn't in charge of any nation's defense. He'll wait till they get attacked or nuked before he reacted.
> ...


Egypt merely established hostile and intolerable conditions which made continued peace between Egypt and Israel impossible, and Israel retaliated against those preliminary moves by hitting at the Egyptians after they'd amassed troops along Israel's borders.

And, by that same logic...

You need to punish the Egyptians for attacking the Jews in 1948, and...

You need to punish the Egyptians for attacking Israel, in 1973...


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Anti Zionist Retards: Re writing and distorting history since 1948.
> ...



I said the 'evidence he was presented with'

And yes, Egypt DID do shit, we've already explained that to you. 

I know it's hard for you to comprehend but, just because Israel attacked first, doesn't mean they started the war. 

I got to say, you have done a terrible job at proving your lies.


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Oh, he understand that the Arabs provoked the war, well enough...

He simply cannot admit that it was sufficient as a casus belli...

Because, to do so, would be to abandon his Arab clients, and to take sides with the Jews, in this context...

And we can't have that, now, can we?


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> You can insult me all you want , but everyone saw it and said the same thing.


*Argumentum ad populum*, is not a valid rebuttal. 




toastman said:


> So no, it's not just my deal.


Have it your way!

It's all your deals and you're all wrong.




toastman said:


> The fact that you keep denying it shows that eve you realize the stupidity of what you posted.


I'm not denying what I posted, just what "you're" saying it meant.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> And yes, Egypt DID do shit, we've already explained that to you.


Except that none of the "shit" they did, was an attack on Israel.




toastman said:


> I know it's hard for you to comprehend but, just because Israel attacked first, doesn't mean they started the war.


Have you ever heard the expression, _*"Who fired the first shot?"*_

Well, the answer to that in this case, was Israel, that's who!




toastman said:


> I got to say, you have done a terrible job at proving your lies.


What lies?


----------



## Roudy (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Israel was outnumbered 4 to 1 not just personnel but equipment as well.  Israel was still using pipers and egypt had vampires and migs.
> ...


Geezus, it appears your hallucinations are getting more and more intense. A US president calling in the marines on our only ally in the a Middle East. Sounds like you need a change in your meds.


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > And yes, Egypt DID do shit, we've already explained that to you.
> ...



What was the point of this post?? You still can't refute all the facts that were presented to you and you STILL have now shown us how Israel started the war. All you can say is that Israel fired the first shot, which happened AFTER everything else Egypt did.
Not too bright, are you?


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



It's probably the tenth tine he suggested this. It just shows hows frustrated he is.
Some people simply can't handle losing debates.


----------



## freedombecki (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > You can insult me all you want , but everyone saw it and said the same thing.
> ...


In summary, Billo, everybody in the world is out of step except you. <giggle>


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> In summary, Billo, everybody in the world is out of step except you. <giggle>


That's not it.

I simply won't allow others, to tell me, what "my" intentions were.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> It's probably the tenth tine he suggested this. It just shows hows frustrated he is.
> Some people simply can't handle losing debates.


I wouldn't know about that, I haven't lost one yet.


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > In summary, Billo, everybody in the world is out of step except you. <giggle>
> ...



I don't blame you for lying about your intentions with that video. It was pretty damn embarrassing LOL! 

But like I said, the fact that you keep denying it shows that you regret it and agree that it was a stupid comparison.


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably the tenth tine he suggested this. It just shows hows frustrated he is.
> ...



We were debating over who started the 6 day war. You've done a brutal job so far in proving it was Israel. So unless you have anything more to add to the debate, it's safe to say you lost the debate.

Now go hang your head in shame.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably the tenth tine he suggested this. It just shows hows frustrated he is.
> ...


Oh yes you have. The folderol about attacking a country that's declared war on your country is a loss for you. Ya know, if you were half as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't be half as smart as I think you are. Chew on that, Bunky.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Oh yes you have. The folderol about attacking a country that's declared war on your country is a loss for you. Ya know, if you were half as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't be half as smart as I think you are. Chew on that, Bunky.


You don't win arguments by simply claiming shit, you win them by proving shit.

And no one has shown any evidence regarding the "declaration of war" and no one can show any evidence of Egypt firing the first shot.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> We were debating over who started the 6 day war. You've done a brutal job so far in proving it was Israel. So unless you have anything more to add to the debate, it's safe to say you lost the debate.
> 
> Now go hang your head in shame.


The only thing brutal about it, is that I made a statement you can't refute.

Israel invaded Egypt.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> I don't blame you for lying about your intentions with that video. It was pretty damn embarrassing LOL!
> 
> But like I said, the fact that you keep denying it shows that you regret it and agree that it was a stupid comparison.


And just how would you know what my intentions were?


----------



## freedombecki (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > In summary, Billo, everybody in the world is out of step except you. <giggle>
> ...


Do you love your fellow Americans, Billo?


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yes you have. The folderol about attacking a country that's declared war on your country is a loss for you. Ya know, if you were half as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't be half as smart as I think you are. Chew on that, Bunky.
> ...


O.K. Prove you're not delusional.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> What was the point of this post??


That you come off looking like a rodeo clown thinking you can win a debate without addressing a single point I've made.



toastman said:


> You still can't refute all the facts that were presented to you and you STILL have now shown us how Israel started the war.


 _*"...STILL have now shown..."*_

WTF is that?

_*"...STILL have now shown..."*_

Christ, I feel sorry for the ones that must endure your plethora of bad grammar posts!



toastman said:


> All you can say is that Israel fired the first shot,


And you can't say they didn't!




toastman said:


> which happened AFTER everything else Egypt did.


But none of that included firing a weapon.




toastman said:


> Not too bright, are you?


This is not about me.


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I don't blame you for lying about your intentions with that video. It was pretty damn embarrassing LOL!
> ...



Because it's not just what you posted, but the fact that it was in response to my statement: let me know when Israel gasses Palestinians to death' followed by your statement' you were saying'

A 10 year old could understand what your intentions were


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Geezus, it appears your hallucinations are getting more and more intense. A US president calling in the marines on our only ally in the a Middle East. Sounds like you need a change in your meds.


I don't support criminals.

I don't protect them, either.

When someone breaks the law, they should be held accountable.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> Do you love your fellow Americans, Billo?


I love my country (and some American's).


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> O.K. Prove you're not delusional.


This isn't about me.


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > What was the point of this post??
> ...



Obviously I meant still have NOT shown . It's pretty sad that you couldn't figure that out, dummie.
And yes, I have acknowledged that Israel fired the first shot, but your small brain can't comprehend the reasons as to why they went through with their pre emptive strike.

' but none of that included firing a weapon'
So??? Have you not been paying attention?? You don't need to fire a weapon to start a war. Damn, how many times does this have to be explained to you.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably the tenth tine he suggested this. It just shows hows frustrated he is.
> ...



When have you won one?


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > O.K. Prove you're not delusional.
> ...


Oh but it is about you. And your delusional agenda.


----------



## toastman (Mar 29, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > What was the point of this post??
> ...



What plethora of bad posts are you talking about??


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> When have you won one?


I win them all.

I'm one of the few posters around here who consistently address the specific things you say and present valid arguments that are contrary to those specific things.

Most people around here just pontificate their views onto others.

And still even more do it with things that are completely irrelevant to someone's post.

Like *Hossfly* asking me to prove I'm not delusional, when were debating who started the '67 war.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 29, 2014)

toastman said:


> What plethora of bad posts are you talking about??


I just gave you one example above.

The others are similar to that!

_Aaaaaaa....._


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Geezus, it appears your hallucinations are getting more and more intense. A US president calling in the marines on our only ally in the a Middle East. Sounds like you need a change in your meds.
> ...



Refusing passage through the canal was against the law.  Egypt was obligated to allow passage.
Declaring war in the UN, throwing peacekeepers out of egypt, a massing troops, issuing attack orders to their troops....... they were all the same as firing the first shot at Israel.  all were against the "law" of their agreement.  

An attack does not have to be the first shot of a gun.  An attack does not have to be a direct hit on a school house, it can fall short in a field, the intent was still there.  It can be a violation of open transport or the dangerous movement of troops.

Egypt made a declaration of war before the first shot, but they made the first move of war.  They had orders for the attack and scheduled the previous month.  Egypt's words and actions were the first shot of war.  Israel was responding to egypt's actions.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > When have you won one?
> ...


But you advance your opinions and demand they be accepted as facts. You produce no facts that are documented. When documented facts are presented to you, you pooh-pooh those facts. So stop grunting or get off the pot.


----------



## toastman (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > What plethora of bad posts are you talking about??
> ...



Show me Billo Dummie.


----------



## toastman (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > When have you won one?
> ...



Wow, you must be so proud of yourself . Your superior online debating skills (LOL!!!) must have gotten you far in life  

As for this debate, you did a terrible job in proving your points. 

You get a bug fat F !


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > When have you won one?
> ...









I'm sure _you_ see it that way.



Billo_Really said:


> I'm one of the few posters around here who consistently address the specific things you say and present valid arguments that are contrary to those specific things.
> 
> Most people around here just pontificate their views onto others.
> 
> ...


Your childish hyper-reliance upon Literalism and your automatic gainsay, in connection with who committed the first Act of War, in the 1967 Six Day War, has, once again, come back to haunt you, and to bite you in the ass, to the further detriment of the Palestinian and Arab cause, for which you strive so ardently and persistently.

You failed the common-sense and manhood tests, months ago, when you opined that you would wait until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into your airspace before pulling the trigger, even though it risked thousands of civilian casualties and the destruction of irreplaceable war-assets at a time of heightened threat of invasion and being overrun, just so that you could say that you were abiding by the letter of international law.

With damaged credibility like that, so deep into negative territory, none of the rest matters much.

Not even your persistent ignoring of enemy troop mobilizations and forward deployments, closure of maritime passageways, and public declarations of intent to attack and destroy, by the leadership of multiple enemy-allied nations, as casus belli.

Despite your protestations of neutrality and goodwill, and inconsistent and juvenile attempts to mask your prejudices using strict and literal adherence to international law, your viciousness and extreme bias and intentions are clear enough for anyone with even a modicum of understanding, concerning the Israeli-Palestinian 'Troubles' and their complexity and the extent to which the Palestinians and the Arabs at-large are historically responsible for their own present condition and state of affairs.

Your affirmation - of the assessment of you by others - (_skills, intellect, biases, or character and nature_) - is not required, in order for those assessments to become operative, and to hold sway.

Then again, to illustrate your high-order debating skills, you could always post another picture of a (retired) US Navy battleship firing its large guns, and telling us how you would send one of those, and a bunch of US Marines, to stomp on the Israelis, and calling everyone 'fuckers' and 'whores', who doesn't agree with you.

Yeah... yeah... _that's_ the ticket... _that's_ addressing the main points in a credible and mature fashion.

Once you start down that road, and become recognized for that sort of name-calling and abuse of your colleagues, it's a little difficult to make a comeback; your debating skills become less important than the fact that it is _you_ doing it.

A state of affairs for which _you_ are solely responsible.

You have a mighty high opinion of yourself - one largely divorced from Reality.

People like you do far more good on behalf of the Israeli cause than you can possibly imagine at your present stage of development and maturity.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


Anti semites often engage in these kinds of futile mental masturbations. It's all they got.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably the tenth tine he suggested this. It just shows hows frustrated he is.
> ...


Haven't ever lost a debate yet, eh?!


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


Yep, he's a legend in his own mind. Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Refusing passage through the canal was against the law.


That's true.




aris2chat said:


> Egypt was obligated to allow passage.


I agree.




aris2chat said:


> Declaring war in the UN, throwing peacekeepers out of egypt, a massing troops, issuing attack orders to their troops....... they were all the same as firing the first shot at Israel.  all were against the "law" of their agreement.


I don't recall the official declaration of war; throwing peacekeepers out of Egypt was none of Israel's god-damn business; all army's give "attack orders" in case they are invaded; and they are certainly NOT the same as firing the first shot.



aris2chat said:


> An attack does not have to be the first shot of a gun.


That's right.  It could be tanks crossing the border of a sovereign nation.



aris2chat said:


> An attack does not have to be a direct hit on a school house, it can fall short in a field, the intent was still there.


Because a shot "was" fired and fell short in a field.

Egypt did not fire any shots.  There was no ordinance of theirs that fell in a field.




aris2chat said:


> It can be a violation of open transport or the dangerous movement of troops.


What if they're conducting war games?  

Would you consider that a dangerous movement of troops?



aris2chat said:


> Egypt made a declaration of war before the first shot,


That's the 3rd time you've said that without providing any evidence to back it up.



aris2chat said:


> but they made the first move of war.


Wrong.  The first move was the tanks rolling into Egypt.



aris2chat said:


> They had orders for the attack and scheduled the previous month.


See above.



aris2chat said:


> Egypt's words and actions were the first shot of war.


Only because you're not a responsible adult.



aris2chat said:


> Israel was responding to egypt's actions.


That's what you claim, which is a result of your responsibility issues.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Your childish hyper-reliance upon Literalism and your automatic gainsay, in connection with who committed the first Act of War, in the 1967 Six Day War, has, once again, come back to haunt you, and to bite you in the ass, to the further detriment of the Palestinian and Arab cause, for which you strive so ardently and persistently.


My what?  

_*"...childish hyper-reliance upon Literalism..."​*_
Care to explain that one in a little more detail?

Can you give me 3 examples of my....

*"...childish hyper-reliance upon Literalism..."​*
I'll bet the farm you can't! 



Kondor3 said:


> You failed the common-sense and manhood tests, months ago, when you opined that you would wait until the Egyptian Air Force had crossed into your airspace before pulling the trigger, even though it *risked* thousands of civilian casualties and the destruction of irreplaceable war-assets at a time of heightened threat of invasion and being overrun, just so that you could say that you were abiding by the letter of international law.


 _"...even though it *risked*..."_

The problem with that argument is that a "risk" is not a fact; nor is it an event; or an incident; or anything that actually happened.  It's just a risk.  But you treat it as something that actually occurred.



Kondor3 said:


> With damaged credibility like that, so deep into negative territory, none of the rest matters much.


O' contraire, junior, it does matter.




Kondor3 said:


> Not even your persistent ignoring of enemy troop mobilizations and forward deployments, closure of maritime passageways, and public declarations of intent to attack and destroy, by the leadership of multiple enemy-allied nations, as casus belli.


I never said I ignored that.



Kondor3 said:


> Despite your protestations of neutrality and goodwill, and inconsistent and juvenile attempts to mask your prejudices using strict and literal adherence to international law, your viciousness and extreme bias and intentions are clear enough for anyone with even a modicum of understanding, concerning the Israeli-Palestinian 'Troubles' and their complexity and the extent to which the Palestinians and the Arabs at-large are historically responsible for their own present condition and state of affairs.


If you are using "...strict and literal adherence to international law...", any personal prejudice, becomes a moot point.  It doesn't even play into the equation.  So that statement makes no sense at all.



Kondor3 said:


> Your affirmation - of the assessment of you by others - (_skills, intellect, biases, or character and nature_) - is not required, in order for those assessments to become operative, and to hold sway.


They can hold your tiny little boy balls in their collective mouths and it still wouldn't make their assessments right.



Kondor3 said:


> Then again, to illustrate your high-order debating skills, you could always post another picture of a (retired) US Navy battleship firing its large guns, and telling us how you would send one of those, and a bunch of US Marines, to stomp on the Israelis, and calling everyone 'fuckers' and 'whores', who doesn't agree with you.


That was just one solution to the problem of Israel boarding ships in international waters.

Send a ship they can't board!  Problem solved.



Kondor3 said:


> Yeah... yeah... _that's_ the ticket... _that's_ addressing the main points in a credible and mature fashion.


I never claimed I do things in a "mature fashion", but I should get credit for at least addressing the "main points".



Kondor3 said:


> Once you start down that road, and become recognized for that sort of name-calling and abuse of your colleagues, it's a little difficult to make a comeback; your debating skills become less important than the fact that it is _you_ doing it.


What do you know about debating skills?  All you and your ilk do, is attack other posters who criticize Israel.  You attack them personally.  That's not debating.



Kondor3 said:


> A state of affairs for which _you_ are solely responsible.


I'm responsible for the things I say and do.

You and the rest of your Israeli kiss-ass, butt-buddy's, are arguing Israel is not responsible for the things it said (and does).



Kondor3 said:


> You have a mighty high opinion of yourself - one largely divorced from Reality.


How is that?




Kondor3 said:


> People like you do far more good on behalf of the Israeli cause than you can possibly imagine at your present stage of development and maturity.


WTF does that mean?


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 30, 2014)

* Yawn *


----------



## Breakout (Mar 30, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> The chickens have come home to roost, kiddies.
> 
> Israel 'cannot depend on U.S. in fight against Iran's nuclear program' | Mail Online
> 
> ...




I have news for all of you, Israel will never allow Iran to go nuclear. They know what this will mean for their nation if Iran gets the bomb. Problem is, Obama is so damned stupid he has totally blown it in trying to deter this from happening. Israel has nukes and they will use them if it comes down to it. Then my friend, turn out the lights the party is over.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> * Yawn *


Hey, how 'bout that, I won a farm!


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Your childish hyper-reliance upon Literalism and your automatic gainsay, in connection with who committed the first Act of War, in the 1967 Six Day War, has, once again, come back to haunt you, and to bite you in the ass, to the further detriment of the Palestinian and Arab cause, for which you strive so ardently and persistently.
> ...


There ya go winning another debate. Wadda we gonna dooo?  LOL


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > * Yawn *
> ...


And he wins another one! Using sheer intellect or lack of.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Geezus, it appears your hallucinations are getting more and more intense. A US president calling in the marines on our only ally in the a Middle East. Sounds like you need a change in your meds.
> ...


Palestinians are ruled by Hamas, a terrorist organization according to US dept. of state and most of the civilized world.  How about we send in the marines to take those Islamic terrorist out of business.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > When have you won one?
> ...


Bobo seems to suffer from the same psychosis as Arabs and Muslims.  All the wars they lost they have declared victory and held parades. I wonder why.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 30, 2014)

>> On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

Egypt signed a pact with Jordan at the end of May declaring an attack on one was an attack on both. This was seen by Israel as a clear sign of preparation for all-out war. <<


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Doesn't matter.
> 
> The Israelis were either (a) truly threatened or (b) able to spin it that way.
> 
> ...


*In fact, Jews lied to the world about an existential threat to their state in order to launch a war they knew they would win 11 years before it started:*

"In a 30 March 1968 Maariv interview Defense Minister Moshe Dayan explained: 'What do you mean, [the war was] unavoidable? It was, of course, possible to avoid the war if the Straits [of Tiran] had stayed closed to Israeli shipping.'[164]

"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'[165]

"According to Martin van Creveld, the IDF pressed for war: '...the concept of 'defensible borders' was not even part of the IDFs own vocabulary. Anyone who will look for it in the military literature of the time will do so in vain. Instead, Israel's commanders based their thought on the 1948 war and, especially, *their 1956 triumph* over the Egyptians in which, from then Chief of Staff Dayan down, they had gained their spurs. When the 1967 crisis broke they felt certain of their ability to win a "decisive, quick and elegant" victory, as one of their number, General Haim Bar Lev, put it, and *pressed the government to start the war as soon as possible*'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Once again we're reminded the consequences of allowing 650,000 Jews to get away with inflicting their state upon twice as many non-Jews in 1948, and it does matter to those whose land and water has been stolen from them ever since

Sieg Heil, Haim!*


----------



## toastman (Mar 30, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't matter.
> ...



First of all Nazi, Jews didn't inflict their nation upon twice as many Arabs, you lying propagandist. How many Arabs were there in the land that Israel declared independence on?
Also, you once again failed to prove that Israel started the 6 day war. Chalk up another fail for Georgie! 
You did however prove that you are an anti Semitic scumbag.


----------



## toastman (Mar 30, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't matter.
> ...



Actually, we're reminded about the consequences if what happens when you start a war with Israel. You lose territory and 5 times as many soldiers/tanks/aircraft.
Whoops!


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > * Yawn *
> ...


What do you grow on this 'Funny Farm'?


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


Indeed. His overpowering intellect and debating skills are a credit to the Palestinian Cause, are they not? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







Not to mention his superior understanding of - and perspective on - the cause-and-effect of the 1967 Six Day War - gawdawful impressive and un-assailable, are they not?

I especially love the part where he attempts to portray the immediate pre-war conditions (_closure of vital maritime passageways, the sudden and atypical mobilization and deployment of multiple large-scale military formations right up against the borders, and the publicly broadcast statements of two enemy-nation leaders to make war and to destroy the Israelis_) - as insufficient to justify a preemptive strike, to ensure that the enemy could not overrun Israel.

As to 'winning' something, well... I, too, can say: "_Here is a hoop that I want you to jump through. If you fail to jump through that hoop, then I win._"

Keeping in mind that the other prospective gamester must (a) be willing to jump through the hoop and (b) perceive that it is worth the effort, to jump through the hoop.

Criteria which I perceived as not having been satisfied, in pursuing the matter further, in the middle of the night - especially in juxtaposition to an Automatic Gainsayer.

He leaves behind dozens - probably scores - of examples of a 'hyper-reliance upon Literalism' - it's just that he - and it - are not worth my time, to range backwards in time, in order to compile such a list, in order to jump through his faux hoop.

Let him declare himself a 'winner' in this narrow context... doesn't faze me in the slightest.

Someone who reacts the way he did to the hypothetical '_What would you do if you were the Israeli Prime Minister in the runup to the 1967 Six Day War?_' - failing tests for common sense and manhood in the process - needs all the delusional 'wins' that he can lay his hands on.

Give him a cookie, and an "_I'm a Winner_" button, and a glass of warm milk, and a pat on the head, and say: "_Yes, Junior, rest easy, you're a Winner_".

Ya know... there are times when I'm ready to believe, that a real Palestinian, reading some of his so-called 'contributions' would sigh, shake his head, and say...

"_Hey, thanks, and all that, but... do us a favor, and stay off our side, OK?_"


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 30, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


So tell me the demographics of Mandate Palestine in 1948?


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 30, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> What do you grow on this 'Funny Farm'?


Jewish-Muslims.

They praise Allah and celebrate Hanukah.

I know it's a little weird, but their jihad's are always cost efficient.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > What do you grow on this 'Funny Farm'?
> ...


That settles it than, Billio. Pack up your stuff, they're coming to take you away. Say good-bye.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 30, 2014)

>>Israel has always insisted that it went to war in 1967 over the fundamental issue of survival. To bolster that argument, Premier Golda Meir last week declassified for the first time the brief five-paragraph resolution of that year that approved pre-emptive strikes against neighboring Arab states.<<June 1972


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> >>Israel has always insisted that it went to war in 1967 over the fundamental issue of survival. To bolster that argument, Premier Golda Meir last week declassified for the first time the brief five-paragraph resolution of that year that approved pre-emptive strikes against neighboring Arab states.<<June 1972


"Menachem Begin also stated that 'The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. *We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.*'"

Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 30, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > >>Israel has always insisted that it went to war in 1967 over the fundamental issue of survival. To bolster that argument, Premier Golda Meir last week declassified for the first time the brief five-paragraph resolution of that year that approved pre-emptive strikes against neighboring Arab states.<<June 1972
> ...



Missiles in Cuba, US takes action.
Rocket in Lebanon or Syria that threaten Israel, Israel takes action.
Threat of missile shield, Russia will take action.
Chinese fears of the US could have them launch a preemptive strike.
In the case of national security a preemptive strike is legal.
Egypt and Jordan had already issued orders to strike Israel, Israel was protecting itself when it took action.

Israel did not create the situation of war.  Israel did what it had to being outnumbered and out gunned, to protect itself and reduce the massacre of innocent Israelis.

You are just upset that Israel won and was not wiped off the map by the arabs.
Israel did nothing wrong.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> >>Israel has always insisted that it went to war in 1967 over the fundamental issue of survival. To bolster that argument, Premier Golda Meir last week declassified for the first time the brief five-paragraph resolution of that year that approved pre-emptive strikes against neighboring Arab states.<<June 1972


Pre-emptive strikes are illegal, according to international law.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> In the case of national security a preemptive strike is legal.


No it is not!

There are only 2 ways a country can legally attack another country.

Go read Article 51 of the UN Charter.


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


I'm more upset at the fact that Israel began its latest incarnation by ethnically cleansing over 700,000 indigenous Palestinians, about 100,000 of whom went into Lebanon and thousands more into Syria. A minority Jewish state within Palestine was just another cold war tool employed by the US as a means of subverting Arab nationalism. Just like the US stationing nuclear weapons and delivery systems inside Turkey pushed the Soviets to return the favor in Cuba. Israel was conceived as a little, loyal Jewish Ulster and that is almost exactly the role its played since '48. You are simply putting lipstick on a racist, kosher pig without first covering its bloody fangs.


----------



## CMike (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > >>Israel has always insisted that it went to war in 1967 over the fundamental issue of survival. To bolster that argument, Premier Golda Meir last week declassified for the first time the brief five-paragraph resolution of that year that approved pre-emptive strikes against neighboring Arab states.<<June 1972
> ...



Quote the part that says it's illegal.


----------



## CMike (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > * Yawn *
> ...



It must be a pretty shitty farm.


----------



## CMike (Mar 30, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> >> On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."
> 
> Egypt signed a pact with Jordan at the end of May declaring an attack on one was an attack on both. This was seen by Israel as a clear sign of preparation for all-out war. <<



Yeah...waiting for the enemy to launch their attack based on what they consider the best time for them makes a lot more military sense than a preemptive attack.

This isn't directed toward you.


----------



## Sally (Mar 30, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Just whom do you feel you are fooling Herr George?  You have no use yourself for the Arabs, but are just using them as pawns in your trying to demonize your scapegoats, the Jews.  If you actually cared about the Arabs, on this Middle East forum you would be condemning what is happening to innocent Arabs all over the Middle East.  You only want to concentrate on one tiny area of the Middle East because the Jews are involved, but the hundreds of thousands Arabs dead and hundreds of thousands wounded in the other Middle East countries mean nothing to you.  Actually what is happening here is that you are trying to put a lipstick on the pig that you are, but it just wouldn't work.  Imagine blabbering and blabbering about the six-day war when it was years ago and innocent Arabs are being murdered in Iraq, Syria and Yemen right now.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 30, 2014)

CMike said:


> It must be a pretty shitty farm.


What do you expect, it was *Kondor3's*?


----------



## MHunterB (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > It must be a pretty shitty farm.
> ...



Thus sprach  Billo Turd Breath.........


----------



## toastman (Mar 30, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



It makes me feel warm inside that Israel's existence angers you so much.

BTW Georgie, how many Palestinians would NOT have become refugees after the 1948 war if 5 Arab countries didn't attack Israel??


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > In the case of national security a preemptive strike is legal.
> ...



There was no way to prevent the attack on Israel by the arab state, so yes a peemptive strike was legal to shift the control away from the arabs in favor of the smaller Israeli forces. If the arabs had succeeded there would have been higher casualties and the likely massacre of innocent jews.  As it was the actions of Israel saved lives by minimizing civilian losses of Israelis and palestinians.

Six Day War - 6 Days in June


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 30, 2014)

CMike said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > >> On 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."
> ...



Israel was out maned and out gun.  If the arabs had control there would have been a blood bath of Israeli civilians.  Israeli actions saved lives.


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 30, 2014)

I suppose a case could be made for the Legality of a preemptive strike by Israel in 1967, under the conditions in which she found herself.

But, in the final analysis, when Safety and Legality are at swords'-point... Safety wins every time.

The Israelis were far safer, by launching a preemptive strike, than they would have been without one.

That's the only test that counts, in the end.

Staying 'legal' is a nice thing to do, under the circumstances.

Staying 'safe' is far more important, as the Israelis so sensibly concluded, in 1967.

Audentes fortuna juvat.


----------



## freedombecki (Mar 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Do you love your fellow Americans, Billo?
> ...


That's a good start. America was founded on equal treatment, and many who signed the Declaration including a couple who authored, revised, and rewrote its language to fit the Continental Congress that sent it to the British overlords, went home crestfallen because they couldn't immediately talk others into including all human beings, including indigenous tribal people, black slaves from Africa, and anyone else experiencing the smothering effects of slavery or sexism.

 Since the very first, men and women have agreed to disagree in politics, and someone staring at freedom from polar opposites are kind of like someone seeing a building in its shadow side having a different description than someone who sees the same building in the bright daylight side.

 When we deal in politics, we need to keep that brotherly love for our fellow man alive and eschew the rut of always demanding that things go only our way 100% of the time.

 I recommend the development of a respect of those who see liberty from sunshine and shadow. Leaders who want to serve the nation need to remember that. When they don't, their vision for all who dwell here becomes as jaded as a slaver's.

 The American people need to be treated as equals no matter what their party, no matter what their skin color, no matter what their education level.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 31, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> I suppose a case could be made for the Legality of a preemptive strike by Israel in 1967, under the conditions in which she found herself.
> 
> But, in the final analysis, when Safety and Legality are at swords'-point... Safety wins every time.
> 
> ...


Correct, end of the day Israel decides when and how it needs to act, and won't ask or wait for anybody to give it "permission".


----------



## SAYIT (Mar 31, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose a case could be made for the Legality of a preemptive strike by Israel in 1967, under the conditions in which she found herself.
> ...



Certainly not Herr George's permission.


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 31, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


Zero Palestinians would NOT have become refugees in 1948 if five Arab armies hadn't prevented the "chosen people" from stealing all the land between the River and the sea. I'm happy that fact gags bigots (like you, Toastie)


----------



## toastman (Mar 31, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Bigot?? I think you should go learn what that means before you use it on other people.

You didn't answer my question bigot. If 5 Arab armies didn't attack Israel, how many of those refugees would not have become refugees??
Learn to read and comprehend, Nazi Shill


----------



## Sally (Mar 31, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



It's really hilarious to see Herr George call someone a bigot.  Anyone with any brains realizes that Herr George could care less about these Arabs and is just using them as a means in his war with his favorite scapegoat, the Jews.  Has anyone seen Herr George report on any happening in the other Middle East country, especially when thousands and thousands and thousands of innocent people are being killed?  After all, this is the Middle East forum, and Herr George should have a little bit to say about what is happening in these other countries.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Mar 31, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> I suppose a case could be made for the Legality of a preemptive strike by Israel in 1967, under the conditions in which she found herself.
> 
> But, in the final analysis, when Safety and Legality are at swords'-point... Safety wins every time.
> 
> ...



  Ask any Pro Palestinian Pig why the UN left prior to the 67 War and there will be no response


----------



## georgephillip (Mar 31, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


I did answer your question, Bigot.
Zero(0) Palestinians would NOT have become refugees in 1948 if five Arab armies had NOT prevented your racist kin from stealing all of Palestine.
Get it, Bigot?


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 31, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


We have a fairly reliable number pertaining to the total No. of Arabs displaced in 1948, yes?

700,000

The number needs to be parsed or subdivided into...

(a) the No. of Muslims driven out by Israeli militia actions prior to the Arab attack...

(b) the No. of Muslims who voluntarily abandoned their homes prior to the Arab attack...

(c) the No. of Muslims who abandoned their homes pursuant to orders and requests by various Arab leadership...

(d) the No. of Muslims driven out by Israeli militia actions after the Arab attack had begun...

(e) the No. of Muslims who voluntarily abandoned their homes after the Arab attack had begun...

...then, and only then, we can get a decent handle on how many Palestinians would not have lost their homes, had the Arabs not attacked.

Anything else is pure speculation, and, of course, there exists documented evidence of Arab leadership calling upon the Muslims of the region to leave, so as not to get in the way of the advancing Arab armies - promising to redeem all of Old Palestine for them in a matter of weeks... another Failed Arab Promise still festering 66 years later.


----------



## toastman (Mar 31, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



No, you DIDN't answer my question you anti semitic welfare receiving Nazi.

Try again, Nazi bigot.


----------



## Kondor3 (Mar 31, 2014)

proudveteran06 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose a case could be made for the Legality of a preemptive strike by Israel in 1967, under the conditions in which she found herself.
> ...


Rather than asking our colleagues, I think I'll take the quick don't-peek memory test on that one...

And, if memory serves...

Didn't Nassar tell the UN to get the hell outta Dodge, so that the Egyptians could move into position along the Israeli borders without the UN bitching about it?

Or did I get that wrong?


----------



## toastman (Mar 31, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Actually, you're absolutely right. But don't forget what Billo said. "If Egypt wanted to expel the U.N from their territory, it wasn't any of Israel's Goddamn business!!"


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 1, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> There was no way to prevent the attack on Israel by the arab state, so yes a peemptive strike was legal to shift the control away from the arabs in favor of the smaller Israeli forces. If the arabs had succeeded there would have been higher casualties and the likely massacre of innocent jews.  As it was the actions of Israel saved lives by minimizing civilian losses of Israelis and palestinians.
> 
> Six Day War - 6 Days in June


I'm sorry, but the "pre-emptive strike" by Israel, doesn't pass the Caroline Test:


> _...the necessity for preemptive self-defense must be *"instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation." *_


In addition, you cannot claim "pre-emptive self defense", when your the one provoking the war, as Israel did a little over a month BEFORE the 6-day war, when it invaded Syria on April 5, 1967.  This was brought to light in an interview with Moshe Dayan in 1976...



> _ Moshe Dayan, the Israeli defense minister at the time of the Six Day War, recounted in a 1976 interview that Israeli policy...between 1949 and 1967 was "to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us", thus changing "the lines of the ceasefire accord with military actions that were less than a war". Dayan related further that in the process *Israel had provoked more than 80% of the border clashes with Syria in the lead-up to its April 7, 1967 invasion of Syria*._


So you cannot provoke a war with Syria, then turn around and claim self defense by invading Egypt.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 1, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > There was no way to prevent the attack on Israel by the arab state, so yes a peemptive strike was legal to shift the control away from the arabs in favor of the smaller Israeli forces. If the arabs had succeeded there would have been higher casualties and the likely massacre of innocent jews.  As it was the actions of Israel saved lives by minimizing civilian losses of Israelis and palestinians.
> ...







 Yes it does as the threat was there and a declaration of war by Egypt had already been made.

 What happened in Syria has no bearing on the preemptive strike on Egyptian forces that were massing to invade Israel.

 You can if it has nothing to do with Egypt. No different to the US declaring war on Iraq and then invading Afgahnistan


----------



## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Yet another malignancy still festering in Palestine, and one that supersedes all of your parsing, is why the UN, at the behest of western corporations, was entitled to inflict a Jewish state upon a population that was two-thirds non-Jewish.

A mandate at the polls in Palestine of 1948 would NOT have produced a Jewish state but rather a Semitic Union that could well be a superpower in the 21st century.

All the crimes of both sides since that time stem from that imperial (UN) decision.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Apr 1, 2014)

The land was designated a Jewish homeland some 26 years in 1922 so I would say that's fair, wouldn't you?


----------



## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> The land was designated a Jewish homeland some 26 years in 1922 so I would say that's fair, wouldn't you?


I would say that depends on the distinction between "homeland" and "state."


----------



## toastman (Apr 1, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > There was no way to prevent the attack on Israel by the arab state, so yes a peemptive strike was legal to shift the control away from the arabs in favor of the smaller Israeli forces. If the arabs had succeeded there would have been higher casualties and the likely massacre of innocent jews.  As it was the actions of Israel saved lives by minimizing civilian losses of Israelis and palestinians.
> ...



What does Syria have to do with attacking Egypt in a pre emptive strike??


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > The land was designated a Jewish homeland some 26 years in 1922 so I would say that's fair, wouldn't you?
> ...



Homeland first, for which the Jewish people were very grateful, (particularly since the signatories of the Mandate were by law obliged to facilitate immigration), then State to follow.  

A win-win situation.


----------



## Kondor3 (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


That's nice, I'm sure, but it doesn't get us any closer to answering the question: _How many Arabs would not have been displaced, had the Arabs not attacked in 1948?_


----------



## Kondor3 (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > The land was designated a Jewish homeland some 26 years in 1922 so I would say that's fair, wouldn't you?
> ...








Not a 'homeland'...

Not a 'state'...

But a '*national* home'...

National = nation...

Nation = state...

Close enough for government work...


----------



## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


I'm pretty sure the number you're seeking is zero, since the heroic Jews would have "transferred" all Arabs from Palestine in 1948 without the R2P provided by five Arab armies.


----------



## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...


*Surely... you remember this part?*

" ...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."


----------



## Roudy (Apr 1, 2014)

Bobo doesn't understand Confucius rule # 1967, "ye ask to get yer butt kicked ye gonna get yer butt kicked."


----------



## Roudy (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


And that's how come 1.8 million Arab Muslims live in Israel as Israeli citizens with full rights, and they wouldn't trade living there with living any of the neighboring Arab shitholes.


----------



## Kondor3 (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Then explain the large numbers of Muslim-Arab Palestinians who were allowed to remain on Israelis soil, and who, after some years of court and civil rights struggles, attained full Israeli citizenship, rather than being driven out.

Epic Fail.

You have a baseline of 700,000 refugees.

The question was put to you: How many of those 700,000 would not have ended-up as refugees, had the five Arab armies not attacked Israel in May 1948?

You have indicated zero.

Neither common sense nor your attempted deflection supports your claim.


----------



## Kondor3 (Apr 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


----------



## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


What  mythical "Israeli" citizenship are you imagining?


----------



## Kondor3 (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


I don't understand. Is it your position that the Muslim-Arab Palestinians who remained behind in 1948 and did not flee their homes and who now live within the borders of Israel (non-West-Bank / non-Gaza) are NOT full-fledged Israeli citizens?


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## aris2chat (Apr 1, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
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> > aris2chat said:
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Article 51 provides for the right of countries to engage in self-defence, including collective self-defence, against an armed attack.
 	Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

May 27 the UN was given 48 hours to leave.  They could no longer maintain peace or security.  The violated the agreement of '56


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## toastman (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
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> > georgephillip said:
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Arab Israeli citizens of Israel today, Georgie.

BTW, thanks for acknowledging earlier that it was the 5 Hostile Arab states that were responsible for many of the 700 000 Palestinian Arabs becoming refugees.


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


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*In fact, current Arab residents of Israel are second class citizens, at best; however, I was referring to the legalities of obtaining "Israeli" citizenship:*

"A group of Jews and Arabs are fighting in the Israeli courts to be recognized as 'Israelis,' a nationality currently denied them, in a case that officials fear may threaten the countrys self-declared status as a Jewish state."

Lawsuit challenges Israel's discriminatory citizenship definition | The Electronic Intifada


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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> > Kondor3 said:
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It was the five Arab armies that prevented 1.3 million Palestinian Arabs from becoming refugees in '48.
FWIW, you're welcome.


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## toastman (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
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Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit. 
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea. 
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees. 
Whoops!! Haha


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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> > toastman said:
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Israel has never been "independent."
It lurched into existence through a non-democratic partition plan imposed by outsiders on Jew and Arab Palestinians alike. Now there are nearly equal numbers of both nations living between the River and the sea, and a majority of Jews still prefer a Jewish state over a democratic one.

Can you spell a-p-a-r-t-h-e-i-d or b-d-s?
(in Hebrew)


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## Sally (Apr 1, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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For the life of me, Toast, I don't know why this thread is going on and on.  So much is happening these days in the Middle East, and there are posters who shed their fake crocodile tears for the "Palestinians" and will milk this thread to Kingdom Come if they had their way.  I think many of us realize that they are using the "Palestinians" as their pawns in their fight against the Jews.  Meanwhile, there have been tens of thousands killed and who really knows how many tens of thousands have been wounded, and some here just don't give a darn about what haplpened to these people because the Jews are not involved.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
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> > georgephillip said:
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Ahhhhh... you've found your way into _Tinny's Tainted Tall-Tales Room_ !!!

Got it.

A place where pro-Palestinians bloggers can...

* delude themselves that the State of Israel is illegal

* delude themselves that the State of Israel does not exist

* delude themselves that that 'nonexistent' State cannot have citizens

* delude themselves that the Palestinians have not made poor choices time-and-again

* delude themselves that their Muslim-Arab neighbors didn't screw it up in 1948

* delude themselves that their Muslim-Arab neighbors haven't abandoned them now

* delude themselves that the Palestinians still own or have sovereignty over all of the lands formerly comprising Old Palestine (pre-1948)

* delude themselves that the Palestinians are gonna get it all back someday soon

* delude themselves that Palestinians' land-holdings are not rapidly shrinking towards oblivion

* delude themselves that the Palestinians will not be expelled once those holdings have shrunk far enough

* delude themselves that they can hold off the Israelis if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that the Ummah will come to their rescue if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that the rest of the world will come to their rescue if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that any of that old Legal Shit from the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s is still operative in any meaningful and practical way in the Real World

* delude themselves that BDS will amount to anything more than a Flea Circus after 8 years of trying and getting nowhere close to becoming an effective embargo tool

* delude themselves that The West has forgotten multiple Acts of Terror by - or on behalf of - the Palestinians, outside of the boundaries of Old Palestine - against innocent Westerners

They ARE a delusional lot, but, for the sake of collegiality, we need to cut 'em a little slack once in a while...


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## CMike (Apr 1, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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I know, I know.

None.


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## CMike (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
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All the arab villages had to do was stay neutral and they would have been left alone. 

When they participated in open hostilities against Israel by definition they were the enemy.


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## toastman (Apr 1, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
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Nazi scumbag lowlife, you are just, as usual, blabbing about nothing.

And yes, Israel is a democratic state.

Can you spell: BDS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR NEARLY A DECADE AND HAVE ACCOMPLISHED LITTLE TO NOTHING.

BTW Georgie, have you heard the good news? Israel approved the building of 700 housing units in the West Bank.
What do you thing Georgie? Maybe Arafart the AIDS ridden terrorist scumbag should have accepted the offer given to him in 2000?
Whoops!!


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

CMike said:


> georgephillip said:
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> > Kondor3 said:
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*How do Arabs stay "neutral" when armed Jewish thugs are depopulating their villages?*

"Around 400 Arab towns and villages were depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus. Some places were entirely destroyed and left uninhabitable;[1][2] others were left with a few hundred residents and were repopulated by Jewish immigrants, then renamed."

*Some Zionists never concealed their intention to control all the land between the River and the sea, regardless of demographics. Their "enemy" was anyone unwilling to undergo transfer from the "promised land." *

List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
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"Disinvestment (or divestment) from South Africa was first advocated in the 1960s, in protest of South Africa's system of apartheid, but was not implemented on a significant scale until the mid-1980s. 

"The disinvestment campaign, after being realized in federal legislation enacted in 1986 by the United States, is credited by some[2] as pressuring the South African Government to embark on negotiations ultimately leading to the dismantling of the Apartheid system."

*Some of us are old enough to remember the gales of laughter coming from US bigots in 1968 over the student-lead South African BDS movement.

Give conservatives a little credit for always picking the wrong dog in the fight*

Disinvestment from South Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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*Big Huj, Bigot!*

"I think I found the village of Huj at the weekend  but the road sign said 'Sederot'. The world knows it as Sderot, the Israeli city where the Hamas rockets fall. Even Barack Obama has been there. But Huj has a lot to do with this little story."

*The Jewish state is swirling the same bowl as their good White friends in South Africa.

It took 26 years to FLUSH the White bigots; Zionism will ultimately surf the same sewer.

Good riddance.*

Wiped from Israel's maps: The true inhabitants of Sderot - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


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## Kondor3 (Apr 2, 2014)

_Declaring_ it thus does not _render_ it thus, George.

Wake me up with your boycotting ambitions intersect with Reality.


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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
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That Palestinian city is no longer there, dreamer.
It's called Sderot now, get with reality :

And wake me up when 'Zionism will surf the same Sewer' as the white South Africans. We've bee. Hearing the same hateful drivel for 66 years now Georgie. After a while, it means less than nothing to us.

But of course, the mind set of the anti Semitic bigot Nazi scum, like yourself, is a mind set that's distant from reality. So I don't expect any rational posts from you Georgie boy. Maybe if you weren't so hateful Georgie, maybe....


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> _Declaring_ it thus does not _render_ it thus, George.
> 
> Wake me up with your boycotting ambitions intersect with Reality.


*Those who snooze...*

"A landmark victory was achieved today in South Africa for the international boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) campaign of Israel. *Setting a worldwide precedent for the academic boycott of Israel,* the University of Johannesburg (UJ) has decided to sever ties with Israels Ben-Gurion University (BGU)."

University of Johannesburg ends Israeli links | BDSmovement.net


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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

*yawn* 


Last I checked Georgie, Israel is still growing and thriving with an excellent economy and no end in sight. 
Wake us up when Israel comes close to what South Africa became


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## Kondor3 (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > _Declaring_ it thus does not _render_ it thus, George.
> ...


It's a flea, George...

Although I can understand why you-and-yours need to 'fluff it up' to look bigger than it is...

But it's still a flea...


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## Sweet_Caroline (Apr 2, 2014)

UK Universities Minister Rejects Academic Boycott of Israel

In a visit to Hebrew U., Minister of State for Universities and Science seeks to dispel 'misperceptions' about UK hostility to Israel.

By Ari Soffer
First Publish: 3/25/2014, 3:17 PM


Britain's Minister of State for Universities and Science has sought to dispel misconceptions that UK universities were boycotting their Israeli counterparts, or that the UK is an "unfriendly or hostile place" for Israeli students.

During a visit yesterday to Jerusalem's Hebrew University, David Willetts said that such perceptions were to blame for a marked decline in the number of Israelis choosing to study in the UK.

*Meeting at the Hebrew Universitys Mount Scopus campus with leaders of UK and Israeli academia, Willetts "emphatically" clarified "that there are no boycotts of Israeli academics, or Israeli students, or British-Israel academic exchanges. Those would be completely wrong, and there is no [UK] university that is boycotting Israel."*

"When I try to make sense of the decline of numbers of Israeli students coming to study in Britain, I worry that part of it is the perception in Israel that Britain is an unfriendly or hostile place."

Yet in fact, he explained, the reality is very different.

UK Minister Rejects Academic Boycott of Israel - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News


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## aris2chat (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > _Declaring_ it thus does not _render_ it thus, George.
> ...



and you justify the movements call to "kill the jews"????

Providing jobs for palestinians vs calls to "kill the jews"
Which is worse?


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## Kondor3 (Apr 2, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> georgephillip said:
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> 
> > Kondor3 said:
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Not to mention that all this shit about the University of Johannesburg is three year old news, and we can see what a whopping-big impact that it has had...


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
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*It's all relative, isn't it?*

"Little fleas have lesser fleas upon their backs to bite em. And lesser fleas, still lesser fleas and so, ad infinitum. 
- a variation on Garstang
The idea of living inside another species, or intimately attached to it, may seem strange to you  it might even make you think 'yuck'. But it will interest you to know that there are probably more species of parasites living on earth, then there are species of "free-living" organisms. Parasitism is a dominant way of life."

https://www.ebiomedia.com/fleas-have-fleas-observing-a-paramecium-parasite.html

*The Jewish state is just another parasite existing on the blood (and treasure) of free living organisms. The sooner it vanishes from the page of time, the better.*


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## Sally (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

Sally said:


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## Hossfly (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Israel exists on the blood and sweat of the soldiers who fought for independence, Nazi scumbag. 

Only a miserable and hateful piece of shit like yourself would say something like 'it would be better if Israel vanishes from the pages of time'

Speaking of parasites, you Georgie, are living off the backs if hard working Americans while you receive your welfare check every month. Talk about blood sucking.
The sooner you and your worthless ilk vanish from the pages of time, the better.

And btw, Israel isn't going anywhere, so get used to it Nazi scum


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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
> 
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> > georgephillip said:
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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

Ok George, lets hear how Israel is responsible for millions being killed and displaced in Syria..


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

toastman said:


> Ok George, lets hear how Israel is responsible for millions being killed and displaced in Syria..


Syria and Iraq, Shithead.
'Guess you'll have to try harder on Iran.


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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

Explain to me how Israel is reaponsible for millions dying and being displaced in Syria and Iraq.


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

George, all of Israels citizens are allowed to vote. Why should Palestinians in the West Bank who ARE NOT citizens be allowed to vote?


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

toastman said:


> George, all of Israels citizens are allowed to vote. Why should Palestinians in the West Bank who ARE NOT citizens be allowed to vote?


Because they live under laws written, interpreted, and enforced by Jews.


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## georgephillip (Apr 2, 2014)

"The only realistic political settlement, for the time being, in the past ten or twelve years, that would satisfy the right of self-determination for both national groups is a two-state settlement. 

"Everybody knows what it would have to be: Israel within approximately the pre-June 1967 borders and a Palestinian state in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and a return of the Golan Heights to Syria, or maybe some other arrangement. 

"This would be associated with maybe demilitarized zones and international guarantees of some sort or another, but that's the framework of a possible political settlement. 

"As I say, I don't think it's the best one, but that's the realistic one, very realistic. It's supported by most of the world. 

"It's supported by Europe, by the Soviet Union, has been for a long time, by almost all the non-aligned countries, it's supported by all the major Arab states and has been for a long time, supported by the mainstream of the PLO and, again, has been for a long time, it's supported even by the American population, by about two to one according to the polls. 

"But there are also people who oppose it. 

"It's opposed by the rejection front in the Arab world, the minority elements of the PLO, Libya, a few others, minority rejectionist elements, but crucially it's opposed by the leaders of the rejection front, namely the United States and Israel. 

"The United States and Israel adamantly oppose it. The United States will not consider it. 

"Both political groupings in Israel reject it totally. 

"They reject any right of national self-determination for the indigenous popula- tion in the former Palestine. 

"They can have Jordan if they want, or the former Syria, or something, but not the area that they now hold under military occupation. 

"In fact they're explicit about it."

Israel, the Holocaust, and Anti-Semitism, by Noam Chomsky (Excerpted from Chronicles of Dissent)


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## Sally (Apr 2, 2014)

toastman said:


> Explain to me how Israel is reaponsible for millions dying and being displaced in Syria and Iraq.



Listen, Toastman, the readers are smart enough to realize that Herr George is not interested in anything happening in the rest of the Middle East unless he can somehow drag in the Jews, his favorite scapegoats.  So let Herr George get his jollies (there is not much else in his life) thinking that he is pulling one over on the readers that he really cares about the Arabs.  Most of us know that he is just using the Palestinians as his pawns so that he can blame his favorite scapegoats.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 2, 2014)

Sally said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Explain to me how Israel is reaponsible for millions dying and being displaced in Syria and Iraq.
> ...


I've found that to be the case with a fair number of pro-Palestinian posters, here and elsewhere, over time.

It doesn't take much to 'out' them, either; give 'em a few weeks of board-exposure and a sufficiently heated exchange, and the hate eventually comes rushing-forth to the surface, regardless of how well they keep it concealed on a day-to-day basis.

There are also a fair number of folks who are pro-Palestinian who are not consumed by hate - nolo contendere - and, out of ignorance or one-sided accounts - come to believe that Israel is the Bad Guy in all of this. Some of those eventually snap out of that or grow out of that, but many don't.

And, sometimes, for long periods, it's difficult to tell the two apart - but, at some point, the Haters work themselves up to a point where they can't help themselves, and the poison comes rushing to surface, for all to see.

There is also a third kind of critter - the one who genuinely believes he's on the Right Side - for good and true reasons of his-or-her own - although it's been my personal experience that those are fewer and further-between than we might otherwise hope.

I'm not making any particular personal judgments in saying all of this, but it is up to each of us to decide whether (1) such divisions exist and are substantive, and (2) which colleagues fall under which categories.


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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

I never thought of George as a Jew hater. I was under the impression that he was just a critic of Israel.
But like most Jew haters who initially hide their anti Semitic beliefs, George has come out of the closet. You can only hide it for so long.


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## Sally (Apr 2, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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## Billo_Really (Apr 2, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Article 51 provides for the right of countries to engage in self-defence, including collective self-defence, against an armed attack.


 No need to quote 51 back to me, I know what it say's, that's why I brought it up, because there was _"no armed attack"._

Nor was one imminent. 




aris2chat said:


> May 27 the UN was given 48 hours to leave.  They could no longer maintain peace or security.  The violated the agreement of '56


O' contraire, my fine jewish friend, violation of the "agreement", depends on where you start the clock.

I prefer to start it when Israel refused to allow UN peacekeepers into its side of the demilitarized zone....


> _ Despite the overwhelming support for Resolution 1000 in the UN General Assembly, *Israel refused to allow UNEF forces onto its territory*_


...then started pushing out UN peacekeepers little by little, taking over the territory after they left, then forcibly evicting arab residents.



> _The peace accord at the end of the 1948 war had established demilitarized zones (DMZs) between Israel and Syria. However, as recalled by UN military forces officers such as Odd Bull and Carl Von Horn, *Israelis gradually took over portions of the zone, evicting Arab villagers and demolishing their homes*; these actions incurring protests from the UN Security Council._


So shit-can this bullshit act of not having any blood on your hands.

Like Moesha Dayan said, you fuckers started 80% of the wars you've been in.


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## toastman (Apr 2, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Article 51 provides for the right of countries to engage in self-defence, including collective self-defence, against an armed attack.
> ...



Israel started NONE of the wars she fought you lying Palestinian propagandist. 

What do you get out of distorting history??


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## Sally (Apr 2, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Article 51 provides for the right of countries to engage in self-defence, including collective self-defence, against an armed attack.
> ...



Billy, why do you make yourself look silly/  Just because you are sticking up for the Arabs (like anyone thinks you really care about them no matter how many times you get on your high horse and no matter how many vulgaries you throw out), could your little feeble mind take in that Aris is not Jewish but has roots in Lebanon?  She can certainly tell you a thing or two about the Middle East, having lived and worked there -- things that in a million years  you never would have known.  These things are not covered in the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites from where you have gotten your information.

By the way, do you want to prove to us from a legitimate source that Dayan actually said that.  I remember when it was posted again and again that Dayan said something as published in one of the Israeli newspapers, a poster on a trip to Israel stopped in at the newspaper office and asked them if they actually published something like that.  They searched through their archives and found out that they never published such a thing.


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## Hossfly (Apr 2, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Article 51 provides for the right of countries to engage in self-defence, including collective self-defence, against an armed attack.
> ...


Casus belli, Billyo.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 3, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Casus belli, Billyo.


Using an act or event to justify a war, doesn't necessarily  justify the war.

That depends on what the act or event is.

And in this case, it doesn't.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 3, 2014)

Sally said:


> Billy, why do you make yourself look silly/  Just because you are sticking up for the Arabs (like anyone thinks you really care about them no matter how many times you get on your high horse and no matter how many vulgaries you throw out), could your little feeble mind take in that Aris is not Jewish but has roots in Lebanon?  She can certainly tell you a thing or two about the Middle East, having lived and worked there -- things that in a million years  you never would have known.  These things are not covered in the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites from where you have gotten your information.


That has nothing to do with what I said.




Sally said:


> By the way, do you want to prove to us from a legitimate source that Dayan actually said that.  I remember when it was posted again and again that Dayan said something as published in one of the Israeli newspapers, a poster on a trip to Israel stopped in at the newspaper office and asked them if they actually published something like that.  They searched through their archives and found out that they never published such a thing.


I provided a citation with my claim.

The burden of proof is on you, to provide corroborative evidence Dayan didn't say that, not some pithy little bullshit story.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> Israel started NONE of the wars she fought you lying Palestinian propagandist.
> 
> What do you get out of distorting history??


Are you calling Moesha Dayan a liar  and a "Palestinian propagandist"?


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## georgephillip (Apr 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> I never thought of George as a Jew hater. I was under the impression that he was just a critic of Israel.
> But like most Jew haters who initially hide their anti Semitic beliefs, George has come out of the closet. You can only hide it for so long.


I never occurred to me you were a racist bigot, either.
Obviously, we were both wrong.


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## toastman (Apr 3, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I never thought of George as a Jew hater. I was under the impression that he was just a critic of Israel.
> ...



The problem with this post Georgie, is that it is a blatant lie, and you know it.
I have never said anything racist or bigoted. 

Can't say the same for you


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## Sally (Apr 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Billy, why do you make yourself look silly/  Just because you are sticking up for the Arabs (like anyone thinks you really care about them no matter how many times you get on your high horse and no matter how many vulgaries you throw out), could your little feeble mind take in that Aris is not Jewish but has roots in Lebanon?  She can certainly tell you a thing or two about the Middle East, having lived and worked there -- things that in a million years  you never would have known.  These things are not covered in the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites from where you have gotten your information.
> ...



I seem to have missed your citation.  I would appreciate it if you would post it again so I can see if it came from a legitimate site.  It has been prove that many of the quotes regarding Israel have been false.  You see, Billy, for years posters like you have been pulling up the same stuff from the hate sites.  I don't think that any intelligent person would believe that you are a person who actually does research on his own.


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## Phoenall (Apr 3, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Casus belli, Billyo.
> ...





 A declaration of war starts a war, and Egypt declared war on Israel. Once that had been done Israel could retaliate with force to their hearts content.

 Read the history books written by unbiased people not those written by muslims


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## aris2chat (Apr 3, 2014)

&#8220;As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel&#8230;.The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence&#8221;. - Cairo Radio&#8217;s Voice of the Arabs broadcast

&#8220;Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse any aggression, but to initiate the act ourselves, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland of Palestine. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united. I believe that the time has come to begin a battle of anihilation.&#8221;- Syria&#8217;s Defence Minister Hafez Assad.

Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, thereby cutting off Israel&#8217;s only supply route with Asia and stopping the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran. By international law, this was an act of war. (Reported that day in every newspaper in the world - see report in The Times)

In January 1950, Egypt had recognised the international character of the Straits of Tiran, when it wrote to the American Embassy in Cairo: &#8220;It goes without saying that this passage through the Straits of Tiran will remain free as in the past in conformity with international practice and with the recognised principle of international law&#8221;. In 1957, 17 maritime powers had declared at the UN that Israel had a right to transit the Straits.

&#8220;We will not accept any&#8230;coexistence with Israel.&#8230;Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel&#8230;.The war with Israel is in effect since 1948&#8221;. - Gamel Abdel Nasser press conference 

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more declarations." - Gamal Abdel Nasser speech May 30th 1967

&#8220;The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear - to wipe Israel off the map&#8221; - President Aref of Iraq

&#8220;Under the terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, coordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two at Qalqilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only 12 kilometres wide&#8221;. - Al Akhbar, Cairo's daily newspaper

&#8220;Brethren and sons, this is the day of the battle to avenge our martyred brethren who fell in 1948. It is the day to wash away the stigma. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa&#8221; - Radio broadcast by Iraqi President Abdel Rahman Aref - 11.00 GMT June 1st 1967, Baghdad Domestic Service in Arabic , Foreign Broadcast Information Service

June 5th 1967 King Hussein received false information from Egypt claiming a massive and successful Egyptian attack against Israel. Jordan launched immediate multiple attacks on Israel:-

    civilian suburbs of Tel-Aviv were shelled by artillery;
    Israel&#8217;s largest military airfield, Ramat David, was shelled;
    Jordanian warplanes attacked the central Israeli towns of Netanya and Kfar Sava;
    thousands of mortar shells rained down on West Jerusalem hitting civilian locations indiscriminately, including the Hadassah Hospital and the Mount Zion Church;
    Israel&#8217;s parliament building (the Knesset) and the Prime Minister&#8217;s office, each in Israeli-controlled West Jerusalem, were targeted;
    20 Israelis died in these attacks; 1000 were wounded. 900 buildings in West Jerusalem were damaged.
    &#8220;Jerusalem is totally engulfed in war&#8230;&#8221; reported the British Consul-General that morning.
    All this happened before Israel reacted militarily against Jordan, or moved at all into the West Bank. 

Welcome to Beyond Images - Perspectives on the Arab-Israeli Conflict


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## Kondor3 (Apr 3, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> &#8220;As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel&#8230;.The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence&#8221;. - Cairo Radio&#8217;s Voice of the Arabs broadcast
> 
> &#8220;Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse any aggression, but to initiate the act ourselves, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland of Palestine. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united. I believe that the time has come to begin a battle of anihilation.&#8221;- Syria&#8217;s Defence Minister Hafez Assad.
> 
> ...


It helps to press the 'Reset' button on all the pro-Palestinian revisionist happy-horseshit every so often... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...thanks for the memory-refresher.


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## georgephillip (Apr 3, 2014)

"Soon thereafter, in response to Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) guerrilla activity,[25][26] including a mine attack that killed three Israeli soldiers,[27] the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) attacked the village of as-Samu in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank.[28] Jordanian units that engaged the Israelis were quickly beaten back. 

"Between 14[29] and 21[30] Jordanian soldiers were killed in the operation and 37 more were wounded.[30] Overall, 18 were killed, 130 wounded, while 125 houses, the school, and the clinic were destroyed in the attack.[31] 

"Israel's attack was deplored by the Security Council, which emphasized to Israel that actions of military reprisal could not be tolerated."

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*It always helps to remind the "Jew First" hasbara brigade how the problem intensified in 1948 when 650,000 Jews inflicted their nation by force of arms upon 1.3 million Arabs, driving over 700,000 indigenous Palestinians into Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and beyond.*


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## toastman (Apr 3, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> "Soon thereafter, in response to Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) guerrilla activity,[25][26] including a mine attack that killed three Israeli soldiers,[27] the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) attacked the village of as-Samu in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank.[28] Jordanian units that engaged the Israelis were quickly beaten back.
> 
> "Between 14[29] and 21[30] Jordanian soldiers were killed in the operation and 37 more were wounded.[30] Overall, 18 were killed, 130 wounded, while 125 houses, the school, and the clinic were destroyed in the attack.[31]
> 
> ...



You're sick twisted obsession with Jews is really frightening Georgie. 
BTW, there wasn't 1.3 million Arabs in the land that Israel declared independence in. Try again, racist bigot.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Soon thereafter, in response to Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) guerrilla activity,[25][26] including a mine attack that killed three Israeli soldiers,[27] the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) attacked the village of as-Samu in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank.[28] Jordanian units that engaged the Israelis were quickly beaten back.
> ...


Don't be too hard on him... he was just copy-catting my 'Reset button' remark, built on top of Ari's post... not very original or imaginative, but, then, few of them are...


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## georgephillip (Apr 3, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Soon thereafter, in response to Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) guerrilla activity,[25][26] including a mine attack that killed three Israeli soldiers,[27] the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) attacked the village of as-Samu in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank.[28] Jordanian units that engaged the Israelis were quickly beaten back.
> ...


*Do the math, Golda*

"Official reports[edit]
In 1920, the League of Nations' Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine:

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. 

"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. 

"A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. 

"Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. 

"The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. 

"Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. 

"Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. 

"In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. 

"After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions. Jewish agricultural colonies were founded. They developed the culture of oranges and gave importance to the Jaffa orange trade. They cultivated the vine, and manufactured and exported wine. They drained swamps. They planted eucalyptus trees. They practised, with modern methods, all the processes of agriculture. There are at the present time 64 of these settlements, large and small, with a population of some 15,000.[44]

By 1948, the population had risen to 1,900,000, of whom 68% were Arabs, and 32% were Jews (UNSCOP report, including bedouin)."

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sally (Apr 3, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> toastman said:
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I wonder, Kondor, if those posters, who are now so obssessed with something which happened years ago only because the Jews were involved, had actia;;u read the newspapers which reported on the 1967 war, would they call all those reporters liars.

http://www.middle-east-info.org/know/whostartedsixdaywar.pdf 

Meanwhile, if some of these posters are so interested, perhaps they should read this book which has gotten good reviews.

Six Days of War


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## georgephillip (Apr 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Kondor3 said:
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*Good reviews from those who profit from war crimes, judging by the author's bio:*

"In 1979, Oren began his military service in the Israel Defense Forces. He served as a paratrooper in the 1982 Lebanon War.[15] His unit was caught in a Syrian ambush on the second day of the war. 

"His commander was killed and nearly everyone was wounded. He then joined a unit stationed in Sidon. 

"A day after his wedding, in the summer of 1982, Oren returned to Beirut.[5]

"Following his regular military service, Oren volunteered to work with the Zionist underground in the Soviet Union. Sent to make contact with Zionist groups in the Ukraine, he was repeatedly arrested by the KGB.[16]

"During the Persian Gulf War he was Israeli liaison officer to the U.S. Sixth Fleet.[15] He was called up for reserve duty for the 2005 Gaza disengagement, and participated in the evacuation of settlements.[17] 

"He served as an officer in the IDF Spokesman's Office during the 2006 Lebanon War.[15] and the 2008-2009 Gaza War."

Michael Oren - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sally (Apr 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
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Why, Herr George, everyone doesn't act like a wuss like you did and fake a bad back to get out of the service after only ten days in basic training.  Let's give a cheer for all those men in the U.S. and around the world who weren't wusses and did their military duty.  As far as Jews working underground in Russia, a Sicilian friend once told me how they allowed a Jewish guy into their group called the Golden Guineas.  This group wore shiny golden club jackets.  Anyhow, years later this guy was sent by our government to Russia since he learned Russian from his parents.  Eventually he was found out and killed.  My friend, when he finished his service, went to visit the guy's parents to offer his condolences.  His mother led my friend into her son's bedroom and showed him where the jacket was still hanging and said that her son was so proud to wear it.  Can anyone see the wuss Herr George ever going on a dangerous assignment for this country?  He would be hiding under his bed instead.

Meanwhile, I wonder if Herr George has anything to say about the newspaper articles which appeared in 1067.  Is he going to say that newspapers were all lying?

Even though the Free Soviet Jewry group started in the Los Angeles area, I guess we can be sure in saying that Herr George would never have joined.  He would much rather see the Soviets mistreat his favorite scapegoats, the Jews.


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## georgephillip (Apr 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
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Some of us believe killing women and kids isn't a test of courage as much as stupidity.


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## Sally (Apr 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
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That is not the reason you dropped out, Herr George.  Have you forgotten that you told us you faked that bad back because you got homesick.  Even children are able  to stay in camp for over ten days without telling their parents to pick them up because they got homesick.  However, if you want to use the excuse you just did, go for it if it makes you feel happy that people will believe you.


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## georgephillip (Apr 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
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Tell us all your war stories, Ha$bara $ally.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
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Agreed


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## Sally (Apr 4, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
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But you will notice, Kondor, that Herr George never made any comments to the newspaper articles coming out in 1967.  Does he think the reporters are all lying, or does he think they perhaps they are right on the button so he conveniently skips over what they reported?


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## Sally (Apr 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
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Why, George, women of my generation didn't usually join up for the military like you see brave women do now.  However, I think if I was a man, I certainly wouldn't have wimped out when called to serve my country.  Meanwhile, folks, Herr George is showing us that he knows where to find the dollar sign on his keyboard. Isn't he one clever little fellow finding the dollar sign?


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## georgephillip (Apr 5, 2014)

Sally said:


> Kondor3 said:
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*Are you naive enough to believe the authors of newspaper articles during the Six Day War were any more honest than those covering the US invasion of South Vietham?

If so, check with these guys:*

USS Liberty: Contact Page


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## Sally (Apr 5, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
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Just because you don't want to believe what they have said, that doesn't mean that all these reporters were unreliable.  As for the Liberty, the anti-Semites who need a scapegoat like like Herr George constantly pull up this one incident as it is the one incident which was the most important in the entire world (of course it is because the Jews are involved)  Meanwhile, those veterans of the Navy who were in the service at the time of the incident don't even think about the Liberty as it was long ago and they worry about the sailors of today and hope there is not another incident like ther USS Cole or the UUS Stark.  Every time I mention to my husband (retired Navy who was actually on an aircraft carrier in the Med at that time) that someone pulled up the Liberty incident again, he shakes his head and says "Oh no, not again."


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## georgephillip (Apr 5, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
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Why would I care what your "husband" thinks?
Every single survivor of Liberty believes Israel's attack was deliberate.
That eyewitness testimony should carry more weight with any unbiased observer.


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## Sally (Apr 5, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
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Why should anyone care what you post since you get most of your information from sites which hate the Jews, Israel and the U.S.  Do you think my husband is the only one who thinks like that?  There are tons of Navy veterans from that era who think that it was a mistake in the fog of war and that Israel should have been told that the ship was in the area.   Moreover, these veterans would never think to get on a forum and bring up the same song and dance that you constantly do as has those who have the same hatred for the Jews as you have.  It doesn't faze you at all when members of our military are killed by Muslims, does it?  It is only the Jews you want to blame.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
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The Americans who died on Liberty were not in the process of occupying Arab lands, were they? They weren't contributing to the murder, maiming, displacement, and incarceration of millions of Muslim civilians. They weren't stealing Arab land and water like your people do. Your knee-jerk defense of Israel makes me wonder if you're compen$ated in any material $ense for the opinions you express of USMB; are you?


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## toastman (Apr 6, 2014)

Georgie, stop pretending like you give a rats ass about Americans killed in the ME . 
You're not fooling anyone. In fact, I don't even think you're fooling yourself.


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## Sally (Apr 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> Georgie, stop pretending like you give a rats ass about Americans killed in the ME .
> You're not fooling anyone. In fact, I don't even think you're fooling yourself.




You're so right, Toastman.  He just uses the Liberty incident in his fight against his favorite scapegoats, the Jews.  As you can see, he never brings up any other incidents in which Americans were purposely killed by the Muslims.  He is just a phony baloney who needs a scapegoat in his sorry life, and he picked the Jews to be his.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 6, 2014)

Sally said:


> I seem to have missed your citation.  I would appreciate it if you would post it again so I can see if it came from a legitimate site.  It has been prove that many of the quotes regarding Israel have been false.  You see, Billy, for years posters like you have been pulling up the same stuff from the hate sites.  I don't think that any intelligent person would believe that you are a person who actually does research on his own.


You're free to believe whatever your twat mind wants to believe.

If you missed the citation, go back to the post and get it there, I'm not your little errand boy.


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## Sally (Apr 6, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > I seem to have missed your citation.  I would appreciate it if you would post it again so I can see if it came from a legitimate site.  It has been prove that many of the quotes regarding Israel have been false.  You see, Billy, for years posters like you have been pulling up the same stuff from the hate sites.  I don't think that any intelligent person would believe that you are a person who actually does research on his own.
> ...



Why, Billy Boy, if you had asked me for something you had missed, I would only be too glad to find it for you.  Meanwhile, does anyone with a head on their shoulders think that Billy Boy actually cares about the Arabs.  Here is the Middle East fcorum, and Billy Boy has never said anything about what is going on in the rest of the Middle East where innocent people are being murdered all the time.  I guess since the Jews are not involved, Billy Boy could care less about what is going on.


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> Georgie, stop pretending like you give a rats ass about Americans killed in the ME .
> You're not fooling anyone. In fact, I don't even think you're fooling yourself.


I don't have your cognitive bias, Toastie, for me, killing innocent human beings is an act of evil regardless of where the killers were born or what god they worship; I can understand why someone as brainwashed as yourself would feel threatened by that. Get help before you kill again


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## toastman (Apr 6, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Georgie, stop pretending like you give a rats ass about Americans killed in the ME .
> ...



Oh please Georgie, you are the most brainwashed scumbag here! 

And don't lie, you only care when Arabs are killed by retaliatory strikes of Israelis.

You're posting in the ME forum where Israel barely 1% of the region, yet it's all you can talk about.
But then again, what are we to expect from a fascist bigot like yourself?


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## georgephillip (Apr 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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Israel has 100% of the ME's indigenous nuclear weapons and serves the US in the same way Cossacks served the Tsar. How large do Zionist crimes have to become before you stop believing the lies you were raised on?


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## Sally (Apr 6, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
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I think by now the readers have realized that the only reason Herr George is here is because of his obsession with his scapegoats, the Jews/Israel.  Whatever goes on in the rest of the Middle East holds no interest for him.  While people are being killed right and left, Herr George has had nothing to say.  Now he wants the readers to think he is concerned with Israel's nukes which she has never used but they certainly have acted as deterrents to those who wish to destroy her.  Maybe in the back of Herr George's mind he hopes that Israel has to give up all those nukes, and then his new friends will rush in and destroy at least a portion of Herr George's scapegoats, the Jews.


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## toastman (Apr 6, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
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Not only did you completely deflect, but you didn't even address anything I said.

You're faltering Georgie!!!!


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## georgephillip (Apr 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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*I don't support apartheid anywhere, unlike brainwashed tools:*

"Some people are brought up to believe that certain things are not true or that certain truths are myths. It is a form of political brain-washing. There are people who grew up all their lives believing to be true what they have been taught until they were presented with the facts about the historic colonisation of Palestine and the ongoing apartheid, occupation and ethnic cleansing. In fact, they even, some with whom I have personally met, underwent a total transformation from being defenders and adherents of Israel by virtue of the process of political brain-washing to becoming activists seeking justice for Palestinians and supporting Palestinians in their struggle against Israeli colonisation."

Israeli Apartheid Week » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


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## Hossfly (Apr 7, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
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Well, Georgie, ol' buddy, ol' pal, the way things are going on these days I don't think there's a chance in hell of me not defending Israel. Speaking of peace talks, how's them things going?


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## toastman (Apr 7, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
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Counterpunch LOL !  
You know George, the best way to describe you is a TOOL. A tool for Arab propaganda. 
All you do is copy paste crap from propaganda sites, you can't even come up with your own opinions. 
Apartheid is a big word for you Georgie, so go do a little more research before you throw it around like that, you disgusting bigot


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## toastman (Apr 7, 2014)

One thing that all pro Palestinian propagandists have in common, like Georgie the anti Semitic bigot, is that they will believe anything they read, as long as it criticizes Israel

I pity feeble minded bigots like you George.


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## Hossfly (Apr 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> One thing that all pro Palestinian propagandists , like Georgie the anti Semitic bigot, is that they will believe anything they read, as long as it criticizes Israel
> 
> I pity feeble minded bigots like you George.


George snuck off somewhere. I think it's his turn tonight to stand on the corner with the "Will work for food" sign.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> One thing that all pro Palestinian propagandists have in common, like Georgie the anti Semitic bigot, is that they will believe anything they read, as long as it criticizes Israel
> 
> I pity feeble minded bigots like you George.


You automatically dismiss any criticism of Israel as bullshit, so you're not the most objective voice on that subject.

Furthermore, not only do you automatically dismiss the criticism as bullshit, but you go after (and attack) anyone who does criticize Israel, as if the problem was them and not what Israel had done.

Killing the messenger, character assassinations and smear campaigns, make up 99% of your responses, just like the temper tantrums of  little 2 year olds who don't get their way.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2014)

Sally said:


> Why, Billy Boy, if you had asked me for something you had missed, I would only be too glad to find it for you.  Meanwhile, does anyone with a head on their shoulders think that Billy Boy actually cares about the Arabs.  Here is the Middle East fcorum, and Billy Boy has never said anything about what is going on in the rest of the Middle East where innocent people are being murdered all the time.  I guess since the Jews are not involved, Billy Boy could care less about what is going on.


How many times are you going to use that lame ass, canned response?


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## Kondor3 (Apr 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > One thing that all pro Palestinian propagandists have in common, like Georgie the anti Semitic bigot, is that they will believe anything they read, as long as it criticizes Israel
> ...


An interesting critique, considering the source, and the posting history of the source.


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
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*Some Jews continue stealing land and water they have no legal claims to.
Are 'jew surprised?*

"Palestine is my homeland, I have been living in exile for 21 years, all of my life. My family still hold the keys and deeds to our family home in Jaffa and will continue to do so until we return to our homeland."

Israeli Apartheid Week » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


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## toastman (Apr 8, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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Someone needs to tell them that they are not coming back.


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## toastman (Apr 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > One thing that all pro Palestinian propagandists have in common, like Georgie the anti Semitic bigot, is that they will believe anything they read, as long as it criticizes Israel
> ...



Billo, I'm honestly very serious when I tell you that you just described yourself to a tee! Specially the 2 years old part!


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## Sally (Apr 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Why, Billy Boy, if you had asked me for something you had missed, I would only be too glad to find it for you.  Meanwhile, does anyone with a head on their shoulders think that Billy Boy actually cares about the Arabs.  Here is the Middle East fcorum, and Billy Boy has never said anything about what is going on in the rest of the Middle East where innocent people are being murdered all the time.  I guess since the Jews are not involved, Billy Boy could care less about what is going on.
> ...



And since you are on a Middle East forum, when are you actually going to bring up what is happening in the rest of the Middle East instead of just concentrating on Israel, which is a tiny piece of land compared to the rest of the huge Middle East?  By only concentrating on Israel and nothing else shows your hand to all the readers.  Let's face it, tens of thousand of innocent people are dead, and Billy could care less about them.  He is only on this forum for one reason, and any intelligent person realizes why.


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## Roudy (Apr 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
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Yeah that's what I was thinking, great description of Bobo: "temper tantrums like a 2 year old". Ha ha ha.


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## toastman (Apr 8, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
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Actually, lets give him some credit Roudy. His tantrums are closer to that of a 5 year old


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## Roudy (Apr 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> Roudy said:
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I don't know about you but I get really scared when he talks tough like that.


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
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I think everyone here hides under the furniture when Bildo goes into one of his obscenity-laced tirades. Scary.


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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You don't get it.
Zionism took the land of Palestine from its indigenous majority.
I would criticize the Arabs had they done the same thing.
You have been encouraged to believe Jews can steal land and water.
That makes you an ignorant tool, Toastie.


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## toastman (Apr 8, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
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When will you acknowledge that it was the 5 Arab states that attacked that are responsible for most of the refugees?
If they didn'y attack, Israel would be living on the land she declared independence on.
You have it in your mind that Israel would have stolen the West Bank after declaring independence. Thats bullshit


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## georgephillip (Apr 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
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*Arrogant, racist Zionists are responsible for all the refugees.
From 1920:*

"But the Syrian province of Palestine, about one hundred and fifty miles long and fifty miles broad, largely mountainous and sterile, contains at present a population of more than 650,000, divided as follows: *Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins, 50,000; unclassified, 5000*. 

"Of these the Mohammedans and Christians are to a man bitterly opposed to any Zionist claims, whether made by would-be rulers or by settlers. 

"It may not be generally known, but a goodly number of the Jewish dwellers in the land are not anxious to see a large immigration into the country. 

"This is partly due to the fear that the result of such immigration would be an overcrowding of the industrial and agricultural market; but a number of the more respectable older settlers have been disgusted by the recent arrivals in Palestine of their coreligionists, unhappy individuals from Russia and Roumania brought in under the auspices of the Zionist Commission from the cities of Southeastern Europe, and neither able nor willing to work at agriculture or fruit-farming."

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07

*Jew and Arab lived in relative tranquility in Palestine before Zionists and greedy imperialists filled the land with the dregs of Europe, which might explain your roots.*


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## toastman (Apr 8, 2014)

That's what I thought. You're so full of hate that your mind is too clouded to understand simple facts. 
Not to mention that if you admitted the truth the the five Arab states are responsible for most of the refugees, your whole hateful, anti semitic and bigoted agenda would be flushed down the drain. So I don't blame you for lying.


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## toastman (Apr 8, 2014)

BTW, I recall you already admitting that if it wasn't for the 5 Arab states attacking Israel, those 700 000 refugees would still be living at home. 

Not to mention, Israel gained more land out of the war. I thought those Arab states were supposed to help the Palestinians??
How do you say 'whoops' in Arabic ??


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## Sally (Apr 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> That's what I thought. You're so full of hate that your mind is too clouded to understand simple facts.
> 
> Not to mention that if you admitted the truth the the five Arab states are responsible for most of the refugees, your whole hateful, anti semitic and bigoted agenda would be flushed down the drain. So I don't blame you for lying.



You have to feel sympathy when you see Herr George get on his soapbox about the Jews.  I think most of the readers realize by now that he cares nothing about the Arabs but uses them as his pawns against his favorite scapegoats, the Jews.  As everyone can see, on this Middle East forum, Herr George is not interested in anything that goes on in the Middle East unless he can drag in his scapegoats.  Does anyone really think that Herr George cares that so many innocent people have been killed and are still being killed?  If he can't blame the Jews for this, he is just not interested.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> An interesting critique, considering the source, and the posting history of the source.


See what I mean?

The evidence comes in, right on cue.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo, I'm honestly very serious when I tell you that you just described yourself to a tee! Specially the 2 years old part!


And here we have example #2 chiming in to prove my point.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 9, 2014)

Sally said:


> And since you are on a Middle East forum, when are you actually going to bring up what is happening in the rest of the Middle East instead of just concentrating on Israel, which is a tiny piece of land compared to the rest of the huge Middle East?  By only concentrating on Israel and nothing else shows your hand to all the readers.


And here's example #3 of _*"Killing the Messenger 101".*_




Sally said:


> Let's face it, tens of thousand of innocent people are dead, and Billy could care less about them.


And so you do.




Sally said:


> He is only on this forum for one reason, and any intelligent person realizes why.


Intelligent people, do not think they could tell others, what their own intentions are.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Yeah that's what I was thinking, great description of Bobo: "temper tantrums like a 2 year old". Ha ha ha.


And now we have example #4.


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## Roudy (Apr 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah that's what I was thinking, great description of Bobo: "temper tantrums like a 2 year old". Ha ha ha.
> ...


Not really, we're just pointing out how you just described yourself to the T. 

What's funnier is that you think you're a messenger with a "message". Ha ha ha.


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## Sally (Apr 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > And since you are on a Middle East forum, when are you actually going to bring up what is happening in the rest of the Middle East instead of just concentrating on Israel, which is a tiny piece of land compared to the rest of the huge Middle East?  By only concentrating on Israel and nothing else shows your hand to all the readers.
> ...



Intelligent people can see right through you, Billy, so please don't think you are fooling anyone.  Now let's get back to the Middle East in general.  Have you anything to report about what is going on in any of the other Middle East countries other than Israel?  After all, this is the Middle East forum and not exclusively the Israel/Palestine forum.  Maybe Billy has something to tell us about Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.  Go for it, Billy.  Tell us the latest about what is happening in another Middle East country.


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## Hossfly (Apr 9, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
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George, that crap is 94 years ago, back when the world was flat and the horseless carriage was a fad.


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## Roudy (Apr 9, 2014)

Sally said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
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"Intelligent people".  Ha ha ha.  I don't know how an intelligent person (or even a semi intelligent one) would get close to Bildo.


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## georgephillip (Apr 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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*Hoss, you should listen to the old colonists:*

"The old colonists believe that what is required to help the country is the immigration of a moderate number of persons, who should be in possession of some capital to invest in agriculture, or have technical knowledge of farming; not, as proposed by the Zionist Commission, an unlimited immigration of poor and ignorant people from the cities of Europe, who, if they are unable to make a living in Western cities, would most certainly starve in an Eastern agricultural country."

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07


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## Roudy (Apr 9, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
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Two words Georgie porgy, HEBRON MASSACRE of 1929.  Maybe it was the Islamic Arab aspirations that caused Muslim Arab animals to go on an ethnic cleansing rampage and massacre all the ancient Jews of Hebron who had lived there for a millenia.  

Of course now the animals are out there telling everybody how Hebron has always belonged to the Arabs, and the "Jews are the invaders and occupiers".


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## Hossfly (Apr 9, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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It's been almost 70 years George but I recollect from reading and watching newsreels when I was a kid how Jews from Europe and other places moved into an area that was barren, full of malarial swamps and turned it into a virtual paradise. Over the years the Arabs wanted"their"land back. Same story in Panama and South Africa with the English, Dutch and Americans.


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## georgephillip (Apr 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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And you're still gullible enough to believe those old lies, right?


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## Sally (Apr 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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> > Hossfly said:
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In conjunction with this.

http://www.think-israel.org/galili.emptylandmap.h


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## Hossfly (Apr 9, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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Skip it, George. Just skip it.


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## Sally (Apr 9, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
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> > georgephillip said:
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And you actually think most of the readers are gullible enough to believe that  you actually care about these Arabs when you are just using them as pawns in your fight against your scapegoats, the Jews.  If you were so concerned about Arabsm on this Middle East forum you would certainly be posting articles and condemning what is happening to the innocent Arabs (both Muslims and Christians) in the rest of the Middle East.  You could care less how many have been killed, how many have been wounded, how many have been made refugees, how many of their houses of worship have been destroyed -- it is only when you play "your concern" for the Arabs when the Jews are involved.


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## georgephillip (Apr 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
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"If the Jewish state, or the national home, is not allowed to become a reality, it seems probable that the province of Palestine will either become part of the neighboring Arab state, whose capital is Damascus, or be held in trust by one of the powers, under a mandate from the League of Nations, for the benefit of the dwellers therein, and for those pilgrims of the three great religions who wish to visit its holy places. 

"In either contingency it is probable that some Jews, as well as other Europeans, would find no difficulty in settling in the land; but neither foreign Jew nor foreign Gentile should be given any special privileges; and to entrust the Jews, who have not governed themselves for two thousand years, with any form of government of the country would be extremely unwise."

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07


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## Hossfly (Apr 9, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
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Five times today I saw news flashes about bombs going off in Iraq, Pakistan and other ME countries. This happens day after day after day...... and not one American or Jew was involved, just Muslim on Muslim. And nobody here seems interested.


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## Hossfly (Apr 9, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
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> > georgephillip said:
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Sounds like one pile of happy hoss crap.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 9, 2014)

Sally said:


> Intelligent people can see right through you, Billy, so please don't think you are fooling anyone.  Now let's get back to the Middle East in general.  Have you anything to report about what is going on in any of the other Middle East countries other than Israel?  After all, this is the Middle East forum and not exclusively the Israel/Palestine forum.  Maybe Billy has something to tell us about Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.  Go for it, Billy.  Tell us the latest about what is happening in another Middle East country.


That's not the thread topic.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


> "Intelligent people".  Ha ha ha.  I don't know how an intelligent person (or even a semi intelligent one) would get close to Bildo.


Probably one who could spell?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 9, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Two words Georgie porgy, HEBRON MASSACRE of 1929.  Maybe it was the Islamic Arab aspirations that caused Muslim Arab animals to go on an ethnic cleansing rampage and massacre all the ancient Jews of Hebron who had lived there for a millenia.


No, it was selfish, Zionists marching down to the Wailing Wall and declaring it theirs.




Roudy said:


> Of course now the animals are out there telling everybody how Hebron has always belonged to the Arabs, and the "Jews are the invaders and occupiers".


Not only are you a hypocrite, but an irrational one at that.

Blaming arabs for something they _*might do*_, the same thing Zionists _*did do*_!


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## Sally (Apr 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
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But I am sure the readers have noticed how Herr George loves to spam the same articles over and over and over as long as he can drag his favorite scapegoats, the Jews, into the equation.  He really has not one bit of interest in what is happening in the Middle East unless it involves his scapegoats.

By the way, can you imagine how frustrated Herr George would be if after a dozen times of posting the same article he was told he had passed the limit?


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## georgephillip (Apr 10, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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Why aren't you interested in the relationship between bombs going off in Iraq today and the number of Americans who were involved with the invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003?

Did you support those who destroyed what was left of Iraq?

If so, you shouldn't be so disingenuous about why that invasion took place or how it relates to subsequent explosions in Pakistan, Libya, Syria, Sudan, and Iran today.


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## georgephillip (Apr 10, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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*Only to those ignorant of recent history in Palestine:*

"When in 1917 and 1918 the British army entered Palestine, it was received with acclamation and relief by the Arabs, Moslem as well as Christian, disgusted as they were by the incompetent government and oppressive methods of their former masters, the Turks. 

"At first the British administration of the country was largely staffed by British officers lent by Egypt, men well acquainted with the Arabic language and accustomed to dealing with the Egyptian fellaheen, a people nearly akin to the Arab cultivators of Palestine. 

"For a time all went well. 

"The administration was just and made no discrimination between Mohammedan, Christian, and Jew. 

"British rule was popular.

"As these Anglo-Egyptian officials went back to their pre-war posts in Egypt, their places in Palestine were largely taken by officers from the army, many of them excellent men and good soldiers, but for the most part ignorant of the Arab language and the customs and feelings of the people. 

"They were able to communicate with the Arabs only through interpreters. 

"These latter were too often local Jews, or, if not Jews, 'Effendis' (semi-Europeanized Syrians), whose interests were by no means identical with those of the people. 

"Only those who, possessing a knowledge of an Eastern language, have yet used an interpreter can realize how easy it is for their meaning to be perverted by one who is dishonest or incompetent."

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07


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## Sally (Apr 10, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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Spamming some more of your favorite sites, Herr George.  You must think that hundreds of new readers come to this forum every day and you want to make sure they see your spams.  Meanwhile, as thousands and thousands of innocent Arabs, both Muslims and Christians, lie dead in the streets of the Middle East, do you actually think that the readers are going to feel that you really are concerned with Arabs when you just focus on one tiny part of the Middle East only because the Jews, your favorite scapegoats, are involved?  How nice that you can use the Arabs as your pawns in the fight against your scapegoats, the Jews.  Now that you have spammed your site umpteen times, may I post something new?

Think-Israel Article


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## Kondor3 (Apr 10, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Perhaps a survey of Arable Land, divided into Jewish-controlled and Muslim-controlled, with a half-dozen baseline points (1900, 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1947) would be of some use?

Do any such surveys exist?

In the absence of those, I'm inclined to believe the stories (not lies)...

When you're immigrating, and want land, you buy what you can get, and then work like hell to improve the land (bringing-in water, irrigation, crops, etc.), to subsist upon...

Generally speaking, Arabs are not known as top-notch farmers...

Whereas a lot of the Russian and Eastern European Jews were just that... farmers.

It takes a farmer to turn a land around; to convert wasteland to arable and productive farm-land.

Common sense tells me that there is more truth than fiction to such general observations.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 10, 2014)

It's all a Worldwide Jooooish Kornspiracy, I tellz ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Now, it's Jooooish Interpreters, working for the Brits, and not accurately translating, which caused the Brits and Arabs to turn against each other...

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ... where-in-the-world do you guys go to school, to dream-up this shit?



georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


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## Roudy (Apr 10, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Two words Georgie porgy, HEBRON MASSACRE of 1929.  Maybe it was the Islamic Arab aspirations that caused Muslim Arab animals to go on an ethnic cleansing rampage and massacre all the ancient Jews of Hebron who had lived there for a millenia.
> ...


Arabs did massacre the ancient Jews of Hebron in 1929, dipshit. There was no justification for it. 

  That's what triggered all these Jewish militias like the Irgun and the Haganah to defend themselves against the savages.

Let's hear it from the horse's mouth:

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=4RJRSA2XtrE"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=4RJRSA2XtrE[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Apr 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
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I'm not sure we're talking about Russian and Eastern European farmers as much as "an unlimited immigration of poor and ignorant people from the cites of Europe, who, if they are unable to make a living in Western cities, would most certainly starve in an Eastern agricultural country."

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07

The above claim was written in 1920, and seems to reflect the thinking of a sizable percentage of Jews who were living in Palestine at that time.


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## aris2chat (Apr 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
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tax records of both the Ottoman and british mandate.  just because land might have an arab population does not mean they actually own the land or paid taxes.  There were several types of land but the majority was state land.


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## Hossfly (Apr 10, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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Georgie, the "poor and ignorant" of that time are just like the "poor and ignorant" of today and any other time when it comes to immigrating. They flock to the cities and urban areas. How many of them would flock to the farms when they have no agricultural experience? They would starve to death and you know it. They survive in cities because they have more opportunity to work ,beg or steal. If not then why are you in the city instead of a farm?


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## Roudy (Apr 10, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:
Let us hear what other *Arabs* have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


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## Kondor3 (Apr 10, 2014)

We were talking about Russian and Eastern European farmers - Jewish ones - because the challenge here was to either affirm or give lie to the widely-held perception that Jewish immigrants to Old Palestine took wasteland and converted it into productive and arable land in such quantities as to support the 'Paradise' perception.

This has nothing to do with inner-city types; it has to do with those capable of transforming wasteland into productive land, in large quantities, in Hoss' 'Paradise' context. Most of the Jewish 'farmers' who would have been responsible for such a transformation came from Czarist Russia or the Ukraine or Poland, yes?

If you have something that demonstrates that immigrant Russian and Eastern European Jewish farmers did NOT transform enormous tracts of Palestinian wasteland into productive and arable land, then, by all means, present your case.

Meanwhile, Hoss' "Paradise" conclusion - a commonly-held perception - seems eligible to be left standing on its own merits.



georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


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## georgephillip (Apr 10, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
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> > Kondor3 said:
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I'm not Jewish


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## Sally (Apr 10, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



And you certainly are not an Hispanic either who works in the fields in California supplying you with produce.  These Hispanics work very, very hard and are not looking for a subsidized apartment.  Can anyone actually see Herr George doing any hard labor?


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## Hossfly (Apr 10, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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Not to worry, George. They wouldn't have ya.


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## Roudy (Apr 10, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
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## toastman (Apr 10, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
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Nobody's perfect....


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## Roudy (Apr 10, 2014)

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
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...from the movie "Independence Day".


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## Billo_Really (Apr 11, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Arabs did massacre the ancient Jews of Hebron in 1929, dipshit.


And over 400 of them were saved by their arab neighbors.




Roudy said:


> There was no justification for it.


I'll agree with that.

But the riot started when a group of Zionists went down to the Wailing Wall and declared it theirs.




Roudy said:


> That's what triggered all these Jewish militias like the Irgun and the Haganah to defend themselves against the savages.


Irgun and Haganah are terrorist groups no different than al Qaeda.




Roudy said:


> Let's hear it from the horse's mouth:
> 
> 92 years old palestinian women talk about Hebron massacre - YouTube


That old woman is a pretty sick puppy.


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## georgephillip (Apr 11, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> It's all a Worldwide Jooooish Kornspiracy, I tellz ya!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


* (Morally) Incompetent...Perverted...Dishonest (Rich) JEWS?
Where would any rational person find such a creature?*

"As of March 2014, (Sheldon) Adelson was listed by Bloomberg Billionaires Index as having a fortune of $40.8 billion.[1] Forbes places him as the 8th richest person in the world,[3] while Bloomberg lists him as the 9th richest person in the world.[4]
Adelson is also a major contributor to Republican Party candidates, which has resulted in his gaining significant influence within the party."

Sheldon Adelson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Kondor3 (Apr 11, 2014)

Not to worry... in any event, they're an order of magnitude more righteous than most of the bottom-feeders that _you_ have been advocating for...



georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > It's all a Worldwide Jooooish Kornspiracy, I tellz ya!
> ...


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## georgephillip (Apr 12, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Not to worry... in any event, they're an order of magnitude more righteous than most of the bottom-feeders that _you_ have been advocating for...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"When Adelson summoned Bush and Govs. Chris Christie of New Jersey, John Kasich of Ohio and Scott Walker of Wisconsin to Las Vegas for the annual spring RJC meeting, GOP stalwarts hoped it might mean the megadonor was committing to get behind one of the establishment favorites for 2016, and not going rogue again."

*Which rich bottom-feeder are you picking in 2016?*

Sheldon Adelson: Wild card - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com


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## Kondor3 (Apr 12, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Not to worry... in any event, they're an order of magnitude more righteous than most of the bottom-feeders that _you_ have been advocating for...
> ...


Whichever (D) or (R) bottom-feeder it is, at least they will not have sunken to the level where they intentionally and randomly fire-off rocket barrages against civilian population centers, or strapping bomb-vests to their chests, to kill innocent men, women and children...

Even within the realm of bottom-feeders, there are strata... and a pecking order...

And those for whom you advocate occupy the very lowest rungs of that ladder, pretty much by themselves...

The pigs...


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## georgephillip (Apr 12, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
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"Whichever (D) or (R) bottom-feeder it is, at least they will not have sunken to the level where they intentionally and randomly fire-off rocket barrages against civilian population centers, or strapping bomb-vests to their chests, to kill innocent men, women and children...

Even within the realm of bottom-feeders, there are strata... and a pecking order...

And those for whom you advocate occupy the very lowest rungs of that ladder, pretty much by themselves...

The pigs..."

*Are you supporting the same porkers who murdered, maimed, displaced, and incarcerated millions of Iraqi civilians, or do Jews count for more in your moral calculus?*


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## toastman (Apr 12, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Millions?? That's how many were killed maybe, but not all by the U.S


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## Kondor3 (Apr 12, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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What porkers would those be?


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## georgephillip (Apr 13, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
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*Just for starters...*

"The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] Pub.L. 107243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint Resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq..."

'Introduced in Congress on October 2, 2002, in conjunction with the Administration's proposals,[2][7] H.J.Res. 114 passed the House of Representatives on Thursday afternoon at 3:05 p.m. EDT on October 10, 2002, by a vote of 296-133,[8] and passed the Senate after midnight early Friday morning, at 12:50 a.m. EDT on October 11, 2002, by a vote of 77-23.[9] It was signed into law as Pub.L. 107243 by President Bush on October 16, 2002."

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*I couldn't help noticing you didn't answer my question about the relative moral worth of Jew lives versus Muslim lives...*


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## toastman (Apr 13, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
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Aren't all human lives valued as equal, George?


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## Roudy (Apr 13, 2014)

Again, Georgie Porgie forgets that in Muslim countries, non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims, and in fact are treated as second class citizens. That is one of the basic foundations of shariah law.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 13, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
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You still haven't answer the question: _Which_ 'porkers'?



> _I couldn't help noticing you didn't answer my question about the relative moral worth of Jew lives versus Muslim lives_...


When I get a straight answer to my earlier question, I'll consider returning the courtesy.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


> _Again, Georgie Porgie forgets that in Muslim countries, non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims, and in fact are treated as second class citizens. That is one of the basic foundations of shariah law._


But... but... but... but... but... isn't that one of the attributes of 'Apartheid'?


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## Roudy (Apr 13, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > _Again, Georgie Porgie forgets that in Muslim countries, non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims, and in fact are treated as second class citizens. That is one of the basic foundations of shariah law._
> ...


Of which any Muslim country that has Shariah law is currently practicing.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


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Ahhhhh... so... amongst pro-Muslim, pro-Palestinian, Jew-baiting, Israeli-bashing colleagues... it's only Apartheid if the _*OTHER*_ guy does it... got it...


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## georgephillip (Apr 13, 2014)

toastman said:


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Murdered, maimed, and *displaced* millions of Muslim civilians.


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## georgephillip (Apr 13, 2014)

toastman said:


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Not in practice, apparently. During the 66 years that I've been alive millions of Koreans, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, and Muslims have died because of the US military/industrial/congressional complex and its allies like Israel and the UK. 

Your question strikes me as being disingenuous, Toastman.


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## Roudy (Apr 13, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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And how does that compared to the 280 million that Islam has killed through invasions?


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## Roudy (Apr 13, 2014)

Again, George fails to mention that Muslims, their leaders, and their govt.'s have, and ARE killing, displacing, and terrorizing more Muslims than anybody else.


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## georgephillip (Apr 13, 2014)

Roudy said:


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About the same as Native Americans murdered by Christians, and neither example has much relevance to the crimes committed by Jews in Palestine. Why do you rely so much on deflection for what you post?


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## Sally (Apr 13, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Since this is the Middle East forum, Herr George is now going to give us some news about what is happening in other Middle East countries.  Surely Herr George doesn't think this forum is just for him to discuss his favorite scapegoats, the Jews.  I don't think that any intelligent person actually believes that Herr George worries about the "Palestinian" Arabs.  He uses them as his pawns in his fight against his scapegoats.  If he were really worried about the Arabs in that area, he would also be worried about the Arabs who are being murdered by their fellow Arabs elsewhere.  Since he has been so quiet on this when so much is happening, it shows you that Herr George is just a one-trick pony out to demonize his scapegoats.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 13, 2014)

toastman said:


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First, we need a minimum of three (3) Casualty Counting sources, in order to reach a believable and defensible collection of averages.

Next, we need to break down these casualties into...

i. Iraq

ii. Afghanistan

iii. anything else that pro-Muslim anti-American colleagues have a bug up their butt about, in connection with American military intervention, tied to the domain of Islam

Next, we need to break down these casualties into...

a. Killed

b. Wounded

c. Incarcerated

d. Displaced

Next, we need to break these down into...

1. Casualties caused by US or Coalition action

2. Casualties caused by in-fighting and civil war between tribes and factions

By the time you break all that down, any objective observer will rightfully note that far more Casualties fall under (2) than fall under (1).

In the end, the Muslims are their own worst enemy.

They kill far more of their own, than outsiders do.

A fascinating study.

Dinner _AND_ a show.


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## Sally (Apr 13, 2014)

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Naturally, Herr George, being a hater of the U.S. but being happy to grab the perks that are given to him, will always want to blame the U.S. for all the deaths of these Iraqis.  Meanwhile, Herr George forgets that Iraqis came out to vote (even though it was dangerous for them) in the election in much greater numbers than the people in L.A. came out to elect the mayor.  We also have to factor in all those Iraqis in the U.S. who drove miles and miles to polling places to cast their vote in the election, often bringing camcorders to record the historic event.  Now if those outside insurgents who couldn't bear to see a democracy take hold would have just stayed away, perhaps Iraq would actually be on its way to a better place for the ordinary people of Iraq.


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## Roudy (Apr 13, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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George George George, you're getting unhinged again. There probably weren't "millions" of native Americans for the Europeans to kill in the first place, you moron.  You just can't face the reality that Muslims are the most barbaric and bloodthirsty people on the face of the planet today. Even the most horrific chapters in Christian history such as the Crusades, started because Muslims had invaded Christian lands in Europe and the Europeans were simply trying to ward them off and regain their lands.  You see, the history of Islam is written in the BLOOD of innocents.

And of course today, Palestinians are basically the most uncivilized, savage, bigoted and violent of the Muslims. Ask any Lebanese Christian they will tell you how barbaric Palestinian animals killed 150,000 of them.

And then after that, tell us how Muslims were justified in killing 280 million non Muslims, specifically the slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus in the Indian subcontinent, of which that Islamic shithole called Pakistan was eventually carved out of it.


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## georgephillip (Apr 13, 2014)

Sally said:


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Speaking of "deflection" here comes one-trick $ally with her usual spam about "scapegoats." One can only wonder if she even remembers what thread she's posting on. Hasbara must be down to the dregs if she's their dog in this fight.


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## georgephillip (Apr 13, 2014)

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You bombed.
Again.

In fact we don't need to do any of your elaborate charade to find the truth here.
All we need to know is how many Iraqis were maimed, murdered, and displaced in 1991 and compare that number with 2003-14. BTW, all the sectarian killing that's currently happening in Iraq (and Syria) is primarily due to an illegal US invasion for PROFIT in March 2003.

Keep working on that flag-flap two step, maybe you'll find someone ignorant enough to buy it one day.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 13, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Your numbers and your sampling base are inaccurate and unreliable.

And they take no account of cause-and-effect.

People today require better data before they will jump off the cliff with you like they did in the 60s...

I have shown you how to obtain numbers that are far more defensible and that the audience-at-large will have difficulty in contesting.

Your inability or unwillingness to produce such numbers in support of your blanket condemnations of America is not my problem.


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## Sally (Apr 13, 2014)

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But, Herr George, most of us realize by now that the Jews are your scapegoats and you blame them for your lot in life.  If Herr George could find a way to drag in his scapegoats for everything bad that is happening around the world, he wouldn't hesitate to do so, just like he is trying to blame the entire mess in the Ukraine on the Jews.  Meanwhile, everyone, notice Herr George's use of the dollar sign.  He blames the Jews for his not have many dollars.


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## georgephillip (Apr 14, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


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*What's your take on the cause of these effects?*

"Internal sectarian tensions and divisions are still polarizing Iraq, while the crisis in the Syrian Arab Republic (Syria) continues to feed instability in the region.

"Iraq is not only receiving large numbers of Syrian refugees, but is also seeing the return of many Iraqi refugees, particularly from Syria. Often these returnees cannot go back to their places of origin, leading to new secondary displacement inside Iraq."

UNHCR - Iraq

*Your problem is the inability to process the fact your country has been the greatest purveyor of violence in the world for longer than you've been alive.*


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## Kondor3 (Apr 14, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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None of this brings to light hard data, from objective sources, in support of your claims that the United States has killed millions of Muslims.

Hard data, George... hard data... _reliable_ hard data... or (far more likely), statistically defensible Averages, based upon the best possible hard data from multiple, objective sources.

Hard data, George... hard data.



> _Your problem is the inability to process the fact your country has been the greatest purveyor of violence in the world for longer than you've been alive._


We can discuss my problems some other time.

*YOUR* problem is to produce hard data in support of your claim that the United States has killed millions of Muslims.

You have the floor.


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## georgephillip (Apr 14, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


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Link to any claim of mine stating "the United States has killed millions of Muslims."


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## toastman (Apr 14, 2014)

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He's obviously talking about your claim that the U.S killed , maimed 1 000 000 Iraqis.


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## georgephillip (Apr 14, 2014)

toastman said:


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You mean maimed,* murdered* and displaced millions of Iraqis?


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## Kondor3 (Apr 14, 2014)

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Indeed.

Rather than lumping-together those figures, to put Injury and Displacement on a par with Death.

Doesn't work like that.

Oh, and, by the way, I know of no Iraqis that the Americans have murdered.

Killed during and collateral-to combat, yes... casualties of war.

Murdered?

Not so much.

Certainly not in their millions.

And that doesn't even _begin_ to touch the much larger numbers of Iraqis killed by other Iraqis, once the Baath Party death-grip on the throats of the population had been broken.


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## Sally (Apr 14, 2014)

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Instead of listening to Herr George once again slamming the U.S. that he hates, let's read some good news about Iraq.

NAWAH Partners with Iraq on Major Project to Expand Modernization of Historic Port of Basra | Business Wire


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## georgephillip (Apr 15, 2014)

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*Casualties of an illegal war are murder victims:*

"Legality of the Iraq War

"The legality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been widely debated since the United States, United Kingdom, and a coalition of other countries launched the 2003 invasion of Iraq. 

"The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that: 'From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal.'[1][2]

"The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court reported in February 2006 that he had received 240 communications in connection with the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 which alleged that various war crimes had been committed. 

"The political leaders of the US and UK have argued the war was legal, while many legal experts and other international leaders have argued that it was illegal. 

"US and UK officials have argued that existing UN Security Council resolutions related to the 1991 Gulf War and the subsequent ceasefire (660, 678), and to later inspections of Iraqi weapons programs (1441), had already authorized the invasion.[3] 

"Critics of the invasion have challenged both of these assertions, arguing that an additional Security Council resolution, which the US and UK failed to obtain, would have been necessary to specifically authorize the invasion.[1][4][5]"

Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## toastman (Apr 15, 2014)

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Nope, I meant killed. 

Yes, I have heard if incidents in which soldiers purposely killed Iraqi civilians, and that's absolutely disgusting. But, those amount to less than 1% of o total. Iraqis killed during the war


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## toastman (Apr 15, 2014)

Georgie is basically saying that any incidents of bombings/mass murder/suicide attacks on Iraqis from other Iraqi militant groups or foreign militant groups is blamed on the U.S.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 15, 2014)

toastman said:


> Georgie is basically saying that any incidents of bombings/mass murder/suicide attacks on Iraqis from other Iraqi militant groups or foreign militant groups is blamed on the U.S.


Yep... that's what he's saying, alright...

But that doesn't make it so...


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## georgephillip (Apr 15, 2014)

toastman said:


> Georgie is basically saying that any incidents of bombings/mass murder/suicide attacks on Iraqis from other Iraqi militant groups or foreign militant groups is blamed on the U.S.


*Who would you blame?*

"Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll[edit]

"Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 1219, 2007, estimated 1,033,000 violent deaths due to the Iraq War. The range given was 946,000 to 1,120,000 deaths. 

"A nationally representative sample of approximately 2,000 Iraqi adults answered whether any members of their household (living under their roof) were killed due to the Iraq War. 22% of the respondents had lost one or more household members. 

"ORB reported that '48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from the impact of a car bomb, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance.'"

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Every excess death in Iraq since March 2003 can be attributed to the illegal US invasion and occupation, not unlike every excess death in Palestine since '48 can be layed at the feet of Zionism.*


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## Kondor3 (Apr 15, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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You need to examine the legal definition of war.

You need to examine the legal definition of war-casualty.

You need to examine the legal definition of murder.

Afterwards, you need to find the except in operative and binding International Law which defines the entire range of casualties from an Illegal War as 'Murder' in the legal sense.

Until then, I'm going to set aside your claim, as unsubstantiated.



> "Legality of the Iraq War
> 
> "The legality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been widely debated since the United States, United Kingdom, and a coalition of other countries launched the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
> 
> ...


Wake me up when you have a final Judgment or Finding from jurisdictionally competent international legal authority which explicitly declares the 2003 Iraq War to be illegal.

Not debates... not discussion... not opinion on the part of international officials... not the non-binding opinion of a variety of lawyers or judges... not broadly and diversely interpretable statute... not white papers... but specific *Legal Rulings*... on the part of the World Court, or the International Criminal Court, or other legally competent authority...

Even a specifically and explicitly *Condemnatory* Resolution on the part of the UN General Assembly would lend *some* vague legitimacy to the claim... not proposals, but operative (successfully adopted) Resolutions.

Until such a Ruling or Condemnatory Resolution is presented, your claims to Illegality are purely a matter of opinion... personal or otherwise.

Therefore, until you can demonstrate Illegality in such a fashion, we cannot even begin to examine your blanket claims to 'Murder', in a legal context - not that you have a snowball's-chance-in-Hell of making that stick, in a legal context.

But thank you for playing...


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## Roudy (Apr 15, 2014)

toastman said:


> Georgie is basically saying that any incidents of bombings/mass murder/suicide attacks on Iraqis from other Iraqi militant groups or foreign militant groups is blamed on the U.S.


In other words what he's saying is they are animals with no self control and when humans let them out of their cages, the humans are responsible when the animals start killing each other.  Makes sense, all you have to do is agree with him on those basic points.


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## toastman (Apr 15, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
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> > Georgie is basically saying that any incidents of bombings/mass murder/suicide attacks on Iraqis from other Iraqi militant groups or foreign militant groups is blamed on the U.S.
> ...



Who would I blame?? Simple. The motherfuckers that are bombing and shooting Iraqi civilians/police in the name of Allah. 
Or in other words, I would blame those people who are directly involved in these killings Georgie. Why do you choose to ignore these violent militants?


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## toastman (Apr 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toastman said:
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> > Georgie is basically saying that any incidents of bombings/mass murder/suicide attacks on Iraqis from other Iraqi militant groups or foreign militant groups is blamed on the U.S.
> ...



A day hasn't passed where we haven't heard about some Muslim terrorist blowing himself in a mosque or super market. I genuinely feel bad for the good people of Iraq who simply want peace and quiet.


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## Sally (Apr 15, 2014)

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It's becaise his favprote scapegpats. the Jews, aren't involved.  Do you ever see Herr George say anything about those savages who are responsible for all those dead bodies in Syria?  Did you ever see him say anything about those unfortunate Syrians who are refugees living in tents, especially during the cold of winter.  No sirree, as long as Herr George is comfortable in his one-room apartment away from inclement weather, he is one happy fellow and the heck with anyone else who might be suffering.


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## georgephillip (Apr 16, 2014)

toastman said:


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"On Friday, 14 September 2007, ORB International, an independent polling agency located in London, published estimates of the total war casualties in Iraq since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.[1] At over 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far. From the poll margin of error of +/-2.5% ORB calculated a range of 733,158 to 1,446,063 deaths."

*Between March 2003 and September 2007 ALL excess deaths in Iraq, regardless of which religious "motherfucker" (Muslim, Jew, or Christian) pulled the trigger happened because the greatest purveyor of violence in the world illegally invaded another sovereign state.

Why do you continually blame the victims of US/Israeli aggression?*

ORB survey of Iraq War casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Roudy (Apr 16, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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LOL George thinks its America's fault some Muslim savage straps a bomb onto himself and blows up a market filled with fellow Muslim women and kids.


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## Hossfly (Apr 16, 2014)

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George and his brethern are still blaming Bush for all those suicide bombings.


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## georgephillip (Apr 16, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Why don't you compare the number of suicide bombings in Iraq today with those of February 2003?


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## Roudy (Apr 16, 2014)

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In February 2003 they were under the iron fist of a brutal madman named Sadam.  Would you like a list of what he did to his own people, you freaking moron?  LOL


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## Roudy (Apr 16, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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I'm wondering under what circumstances does George feel Muslims themselves are to blame for their savagery.  Ha ha.


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## toastman (Apr 16, 2014)

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According to George, Zionism/Israel is responsible for all the violence in the Middle East


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## Roudy (Apr 16, 2014)

toastman said:


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Yup, that includes all the corruption, oppression, persecution, murders, rapes, and robberies.  It's all da Jooos fault I tell ya!


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## georgephillip (Apr 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


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How many Iraqis think they are better off today than before Mi$$ion Accompli$hed?


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## toastman (Apr 16, 2014)

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This question reminds me of a documentary by VICE about life in Iraq after the U.S left .
The narrator approached a group of young/middle aged Iraqis who were doing tricks on their motor cycles and were dressed with leather jackets and tight black biker pants. You know, like an American biker.
Anyway, he asked them if they preferred like in Iraq before or after Saddams reign. Many shouted that they preferred life without Saddam because frankly, with him as the dictator, they certainly would not be allowed to dress or act lime they were. Others shouted that they preferred like with Saddam as the Iraqi dictator because if the stability he brought. 
I bring this up because personally, I find that most Iraqis would prefer freedom that they didn't have with Saddam. But of course there will always be a minority who supported him and the 'stability' he brought to Iraq....

I wonder if such a poll has ever been conducted..


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## Roudy (Apr 16, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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$o you think Iraq and Iraqis were better off under that lunatic $adam and his $ons than a free and semi democratic country they are today?  Only a $HMUCK would $ay that.


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## Roudy (Apr 16, 2014)

toastman said:


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Sadam brought stability like N. Korean leader brings stability. He ruled with an iron fist and even dropped poison gas on those who dared oppose him. The people were for sure ecstatic to get rid of the madman.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 16, 2014)

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But.. but.. but... but... at least the _trains_ ran on time, right?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> LOL George thinks its America's fault some Muslim savage straps a bomb onto himself and blows up a market filled with fellow Muslim women and kids.


The problem is, that's not how they died.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> $o you think Iraq and Iraqis were better off under that lunatic $adam and his $ons than a free and semi democratic country they are today?  Only a $HMUCK would $ay that.


And only a brain dead moron, would think we'd spend over 4 trillion dollars and over 4000 American lives, just to bring a country of goat-herders (on the other side of the planet), democracy and get absolutely nothing in return.


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## Hossfly (Apr 16, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
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> > $o you think Iraq and Iraqis were better off under that lunatic $adam and his $ons than a free and semi democratic country they are today?  Only a $HMUCK would $ay that.
> ...


Then why are you jumping for joy, crackhead?


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## Roudy (Apr 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
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> > $o you think Iraq and Iraqis were better off under that lunatic $adam and his $ons than a free and semi democratic country they are today?  Only a $HMUCK would $ay that.
> ...


Country of goat herders?  Ha ha ha. Look at the ignorant donkey pontificate. That would be Afghanistan and those same Afghan goat herders pulled off 9-11, the biggest terrorist attack on US homeland soil in history.  Iraq on the other hand was one of the strongest, highly militarized wealthy nations in the Middle East with an organized experienced military, and a leader with ties to terrorist groups who hated America with a passion, and determined to one-up Al Queda and try to pull off an even bigger attack than 9-11.  

Now run along before you embarrass yourself even more, donkey boy.


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## Roudy (Apr 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
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> > LOL George thinks its America's fault some Muslim savage straps a bomb onto himself and blows up a market filled with fellow Muslim women and kids.
> ...


Keep up with the conversation, mental midget.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Keep up with the conversation, mental midget.


Suicide bombers didn't kill one million Iraqis, we did.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Then why are you jumping for joy, crackhead?


Because I don't want my tax dollars being spent in someone else's god-damn country!

Got any more brilliant questions, Einstein?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Country of goat herders?  Ha ha ha. Look at the ignorant donkey pontificate. That would be Afghanistan and those same Afghan goat herders pulled off 9-11, the biggest terrorist attack on US homeland soil in history.
> 
> Iraq on the other hand was one of the strongest, highly militarized wealthy nations in the Middle East with an organized experienced military, and a leader with ties to terrorist groups who hated America with a passion, and determined to one-up Al Queda and try to pull off an even bigger attack than 9-11.
> 
> Now run along before you embarrass yourself even more, donkey boy.


We were not attacked by Afghanistan, or Iraq, you fuckin' dumbass!


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## Kondor3 (Apr 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
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> > Keep up with the conversation, mental midget.
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We didn't kill one million Iraqis either.


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## georgephillip (Apr 17, 2014)

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How do you know that?


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## toastman (Apr 17, 2014)

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Exactly.
I've seen so many video clips where Saddam passes through a village with his bodyguards, and you see the people approaching him, bowing down to him, kissing his hand. 
Whatever your stance on the Iraq war is, I think we can all agree that he was a mad man lunatic and quite possibly one of the most evil dictators on earth.


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## georgephillip (Apr 17, 2014)

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*How does Saddam compare to the House of Saud?*

"This Zogby poll of Iraqi and other opinions about the consequences of the U.S. invasion should be required reading (via Ricks). It is by far the most comprehensive survey of Iraqi opinion about the war that I have seen, and it is first since the withdrawal of U.S. forces. 

"The responses to one question in particular deserve close attention. The question was, 'Since the U.S. entered Iraq, how do you feel the following areas of life have been impacted?' 

"Consistent with other surveys, Kurdish opinion tends to be extremely positive, because Iraqi Kurds experienced almost none of the upheaval and violence during the eight and a half years of U.S. occupation. 

"For the most part, Shia and Sunni Arabs perceive almost every aspect of life to have become worse or not changed."

How Do Iraqis View the Effects of the Iraq War? | The American Conservative


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## Kondor3 (Apr 17, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Because even the most overly-generous and condemnatory figures from semi-believable sources such as Lancet fall far short of such a mark...


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## georgephillip (Apr 17, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


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*Maybe from where you sit...*

"The number of displaced persons, both internal (within Iraq) and external (refugees, mainly in Jordan and Syria) ranged from estimates of 3.5 million to 5 million or more, which were directly attributable to the war. 

"Virtually all first-hand accounts blamed violence as the cause of moving, or threats of ethnic or sectarian cleansing of neighborhoods.

"The ravages of displacement, which remains at about 3 million, are bad enough. But it is also another indicator of the scale of mortality. 

All wars since 1945 have ratios of displaced to fatalities of 10:1 or less, typically more in the range of 5:1. 

"If this typical ratio holds for the Iraq War, that indicates mortality of about one million Iraqis."

The Human Cost of the War in Iraq


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## aris2chat (Apr 17, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Saddam had a quran written in his blood, the house of Saud had more an a ton of the books thrown in the sewers by government officials.






They have both tarnished Islam.  Both have been the cause and intentionally perpetrated wars on their fellow muslims.  Both have denied rights to and brutalized their own people.  Both have had a profound effect on how muslims are seen and treated today by the world.


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## Sally (Apr 17, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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I think the poll would have been quite different if the outside insurgents (who of course didn't want to see a democracy) came flooding into Iraq.  Right after the war, there were many interviews of the Iraqi people, and they said they were happy, among other things, to be able to have their own newspapers and to put on their own plays.  Even the Business Section of the newspaper said they were now going out and buying big ticket items and even having plastic surgery.  I think we all remember the stories about how happy the Iraqis were to be able to go out and vote, and we certainly should remember how the Iraqis living here drove hundreds of miles to a polling place to cast their votes.  They even took camcorders with him to record the historic event of them being able to vote for their choice.


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## Roudy (Apr 17, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Kurds?  You friggin moron, Sadam and his sons violated ALL Iraqis. The Kurds got hit the worst as a group because they posed a bigger danger.  

Sadam was a madman who killed and tortured his people, the House of Saud are corrupt and greedy, but they are good to their people and do not torture or oppress (compared to other Muslim shitholes that is). 

The people of Iraq and the world for that matter should be very grateful that the US spent its money and lives to free them of this brutal dictator.


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## georgephillip (Apr 17, 2014)

Sally said:


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*Why don't you link to some of those stories and then ask their authors how they feel about their lives today?*

"For example, when asked about political freedom, 53% of Shias and 54% of Sunni Arabs say that things are worse now, and less than a third of each group believes that things have improved. 

"As for personal security and safety, there is an overwhelming consensus among both groups (81% of Shias, 88% of Sunni Arabs) that it is worse than before, which is hardly surprising. 

"The responses on economic development/employment are almost as lopsided and negative: 74% of Shias and 80% of Sunni Arabs say that things are worse. 

"*In every category except religious freedom, Shia and Sunni Arabs are in agreement that things have become worse since the U.S. invaded.* 

How Do Iraqis View the Effects of the Iraq War? | The American Conservative


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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From your version of events it appears the Iraqis miss being buggered, raped and gassed by Saddam.


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## Sally (Apr 17, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Why don't you go over there, Herr George, and ask these people if they feel there lives would be better if the outside insurgents didn't come in and start all that trouble.  Evidently you weren't reading the newspaper reports coming from that country right afterSaddam was toppled and don't realize how the people felt about being free at last after so many years of living under a tyrant.


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## aris2chat (Apr 17, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
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Baghdad, Iraq: 10 years after Saddam | World news | The Observer


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## Roudy (Apr 17, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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Great post, from your article: 


> Zubaidi talks without bitterness. He tells me he is happier these days and hated his time in the army. "Under Saddam, the state intervened in everything. We were ruled with an iron fist. In those days, I couldn't afford fruit and didn't have a car. Now everything's reversed. We have freedom. We can buy what we like.



Makes you wonder who's side George is really on.  Certainly not the people of Iraq.


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


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Nor the U.S. That leaves..................Hamas?


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## Roudy (Apr 18, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Hamas and any entity currently at war with the US, Israel, and the West in general.


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## georgephillip (Apr 18, 2014)

Sally said:


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*Obviously, $ally $wallows every load:*

"We should also note the American responses to the same question. 

The difference is remarkable, and it shows what a huge gap in perceptions and understanding there is between Americans and Iraqis. 48% of Iraqis overall believe that political freedom has worsened since the invasion, but 50% of Americans believe it has improved. 

"In fairness to the American respondents, the American public has been routinely deceived and misled about the nature of the new Iraqi government and political conditions in 'democratic' Iraq, so it would be easy for a casual observer to conclude that conditions are greatly improved. 

"Of course, this result is heavily influenced by the 67% of Republicans who believe that political freedom has improved since the invasion. Im sure most Republicans genuinely believe that, because this is what their leaders and pundits have been telling them for years. 

"It speaks volumes that this view is wildly at odds with the views of the Iraqis who have lived through the invasion and occupation years."

*Maybe $he's Republican and ha$bara?*

How Do Iraqis View the Effects of the Iraq War? | The American Conservative


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## Roudy (Apr 18, 2014)

George likes to run away from the truth. 



> Zubaidi talks without bitterness. He tells me he is happier these days and hated his time in the army. "Under Saddam, the state intervened in everything. We were ruled with an iron fist. In those days, I couldn't afford fruit and didn't have a car. Now everything's reversed. We have freedom. We can buy what we like.



Again, who's side George is really on.  Certainly not the people of Iraq.


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## Sally (Apr 18, 2014)

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Notice Herr George's dollar signs in his posts.  We know he is a poor slob, but does he always constantly have to advertise i?.  For the life of me, I don't know why Herri George still lives here since he has shown that he hates this country.  There has to be another country on this planet where he will feel more comfortable.


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## Sally (Apr 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> George likes to run away from the truth.
> 
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Actually, Herr George doesn't care for anyone but his sorry old self.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 18, 2014)

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Phase 1 of the Iraq War was the Invasion.

Phase 2 of the Iraq War was the Insurgency / Civil War

Figures need to be divided between the two phases.

Phase 1 was beyond the control of the Iraqis.

Phase 2 was their choice, and they killed far more of their own than we did.


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## Roudy (Apr 18, 2014)

Sally said:


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> > George likes to run away from the truth.
> ...


He seems to have mastered the art of Jew hate quite well. A week ago he posted crap about Jews being responsible for what is happening between Russia and Ukraine. Funny part is today in the news they mentioned that the Russians are now sending Nazi style letters to Ukrainian Jews and synagogues  asking them to identify themselves as Jews, and list all the property and assets and cars they own. Jews have always been the canary in the coal mine. Every time evil rises, the Jews immediately become the first targets. And so it is with IslamoNazis as well.


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## georgephillip (Apr 20, 2014)

Roudy said:


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*Your propaganda isn't fooling anyone, Hasbara*

"A few anti-Semitic fliers in eastern Ukraine made global news after the U.S. Secretary of State spoke out against them. But on the evidence on display in Donetsk, the Jews of eastern Ukraine are in little danger"

Ukraine?s ?Jew Register? Either a Hoax or a Crude Extortion Scheme - TIME


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## georgephillip (Apr 20, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


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Phase 2 would never have happened absent an illegal, immoral US invasion.
You're trying to separate cause and effect, and it won't fly.


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## Hossfly (Apr 20, 2014)

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Listen, buster, any time a government hate program is directed against Jews, they are in mortal danger. It would serve the Rooskies and other countries right if Israel would go into their countries to protect the Jews living there and extract a head for an eye. Am I not correct, Little Georgie Jew-hater?


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## Sally (Apr 20, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Let's face it, Herr George would love to see a pogrom taking place in the Ukraine or Russia against his favorite scapegoats, the Jews.


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## aris2chat (Apr 20, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Trying to instill fear in the jews to leave or pay for the "privilege" of staying as less than equal.  The publishing and distribution of the flyers was organized and methodical.   
It was targeting jews, be it government or some group claiming to speaking on behalf of the government.
It amounts to progrom trying to wreak havoc on the jewish community.  It is an attack, psychological or physical, on the jews.


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## georgephillip (Apr 20, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Not even close, Killer.
Why don't you explain what makes a Jew life worth more than a Russian or American or Ukrainian life? There's no proof of a "government hate program" in eastern Ukraine, unlike the "Muslim hate program" you and your government endorse.


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## georgephillip (Apr 20, 2014)

aris2chat said:


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Tell us exactly what you mean by "organized" and "methodical."
Don't be afraid to use credible links.
Thanks.


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## Hossfly (Apr 20, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Here's a link from your Kiss Obama's Boots Network. Kerry sez it's real. Who's lying here?


 Jewish residents of one city in east Ukraine were issued a flier instructing them to identify themselves, Secretary of State John Kerry said Thursday, signaling that Russias growing military presence in the region could spark a new wave of anti-Semitism in the former Soviet bloc.

Just in the last couple of days, notices were sent to Jews in one city, indicating that they had to identify themselves as Jews and obviously the accompanying threat implied, is or threatened or suffer the consequences, one way or the other, Kerry said during a press conference in Geneva, following a meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Ukrainian and EU representatives.


THE REID REPORT, 4/17/14, 3:03 PM ET
John Kerry: Jews targeted in Ukraine

The leader of the Donetsk Peoples Republic has denied any connection with the flier, which bared his name as the signature, according to a statement from the Anti-Defamation League.

Jews in Ukraine told to identify themselves, Kerry says | MSNBC


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## georgephillip (Apr 20, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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I don't think John Forbes Kerry has forgotten the business of America is war.
I'm guessing those fliers are a crude extortion attempt on the part of local thugs.
What's yours?


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## toastman (Apr 20, 2014)

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What a retarded comparison. There are Americans and Ukrainians and Russians who ARE Jews.


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## Hossfly (Apr 20, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Tinmore, I am a Patton clone. Ever since V-E Day I have been saying that Russia is an evil we'll eventually have to get rid of. The Islamists not so much because they'll inbreed themselves out of existance.


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## georgephillip (Apr 20, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Hoss, this ain't 1945.
Are you worried about the collateral damage in your hometown?


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## Hossfly (Apr 20, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Did I say I am still living in 1945?


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## georgephillip (Apr 21, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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No.
You said: "Ever since VE Day I have been saying that Russia is an evil we'll eventually have to get rid of." Putting aside the Evil we've inflicted on the world since 1945, how do you plan to get rid off a nuclear superpower without exposing the US homeland to the same level of devastation the Nazis inflicted on Russia during WWII?


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## georgephillip (Apr 21, 2014)

toastman said:


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Are you playing the race or religion card?


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## Kondor3 (Apr 21, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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Somebody is going to have to explain to me, how requiring Jews to 'register' with the government, and protesting against such singular treatment, is in any way equivalent to assigning a higher value to their lives, than the value placed upon the lives of other Americans or Ukrainians.

Non sequitur, insofar as I can discern.

So-called 'race-cards' and 'religion-cards' imply an overreaction.

No such overreaction is operative here.

The concern is entirely warranted.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 21, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Because even the most overly-generous and condemnatory figures from semi-believable sources such as Lancet fall far short of such a mark...


Are you an expert in epidemiology?

Then shut your  mouth!

You're not even qualified to comment on their findings.


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## Kondor3 (Apr 21, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Because even the most overly-generous and condemnatory figures from semi-believable sources such as Lancet fall far short of such a mark...
> ...


Blow it out your ass, you little wanker.

One need not be an expert in large-scale disease cause-and-effect to comment upon war casualties and related.

I cited a respected source (the Lancet reports, original and amended) rather than just putting wild, hairy-assed numbers out there.

And I called for subdividing casualties into US-Coalition -caused, and Iraqi-caused.

And I did so in a reasonable and respectful manner.

Unlike you.

Pissant.


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## georgephillip (Apr 21, 2014)

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First, why don't you tell us which "government" is requiring Jews to register in Ukraine?


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## Kondor3 (Apr 21, 2014)

georgephillip said:


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You first, George.

But, as a friendly aside...

There have been reports of varying reliability, about the 'provisional' governments or councils of a couple of Eastern Ukrainian provinces or towns, distributing flyers calling for same.

I have also seen various reports which reinforce, disavow or reject as false, such reports.

Is that possibility not what is being discussed here?

Perhaps I'm wrong.


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## georgephillip (Apr 21, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


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I hope not, K3.

I don't see how it benefits the government in Kiev or the Russians to get smeared with being anti-Semitic, although it's obvious bigots abound on both sides.

Personally, I would rather know more details of the February 20th sniper killings in Kiev that forced Yanukovych to run for his greedy life.

The ICC has extended an offer to investigate; however, I'm thinking all sides in this conflict may not want the world to know the full extent of their involvement in mass murder.

I suppose it would also be interesting to know how many US officials from the State Department and CIA were helping fund and organize the ouster of a totally corrupt, yet legally elected, president of a sovereign state.

When do you expect we'll be having this same conversation about Venezuela?


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## Sally (Apr 21, 2014)

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When it comes to his favorite scapegoats, the Jews, Herr George even has to drag what is happening in the Ukraine over to the Middle East forum.  It isn't enough that he is blabbering about this on another forum.  So tell us, Herr George, have you anything to say about what is going on in the Middle East that doesn't involve your favorite scapegoats.  For all the times you have posted on this forum, I don't think anyone has seen you actually  post anything that has happened in the Middle East which didn't involve the Jews, and we all know the Middle East is a huge piece of real estate where lots is happening.


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## Roudy (Apr 21, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Because even the most overly-generous and condemnatory figures from semi-believable sources such as Lancet fall far short of such a mark...
> ...


Pffft! The Lancet seems to be a magnet for fraudsters. They have lost all credibility.  Nobody quotes them any longer, except for idiots like you. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Sudbø

Jon Sudbø (born May 3, 1961) is a Norwegian dentist, physician, and former medical researcher, who was exposed as a scientific fraudster in 2006. Over a period of several years, he fabricated results in the field of oncology which he published in leading medical journals. The article that led to his downfall, which was published in The Lancet, was based on 900 patients Sudbø had fabricated entirely. The editor of The Lancet described this as the biggest scientific fraud conducted by a single researcher ever.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/

The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud

In 1998, Andrew Wakefield and 12 of his colleagues[1] published a case series in the Lancet, which suggested that the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine may predispose to behavioral regression and pervasive developmental disorder in children. Despite the small sample size (n=12), the uncontrolled design, and the speculative nature of the conclusions, the paper received wide publicity, and MMR vaccination rates began to drop because parents were concerned about the risk of autism after vaccination.

The Lancet completely retracted the Wakefield et al.[1] paper in February 2010, admitting that several elements in the paper were incorrect, contrary to the findings of the earlier investigation.[7] Wakefield et al.[1] were held guilty of ethical violations (they had conducted invasive investigations on the children without obtaining the necessary ethical clearances) and scientific misrepresentation (they reported that their sampling was consecutive when, in fact, it was selective). This retraction was published as a small, anonymous paragraph in the journal, on behalf of the editors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet

Iraq War death toll controversy (2004)

The Lancet also published a controversial estimate of the Iraq War's Iraqi death toll&#8212;around 100,000&#8212;in 2004. In 2006 a follow-up study by the same team suggested that the violent death rate in Iraq was not only consistent with the earlier estimate, but had increased considerably in the intervening period (see Lancet surveys of casualties of the Iraq War). The second survey estimated that there had been 654,965 excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war. The 95% confidence interval was 392,979 to 942,636. 1,849 households that contained 12,801 people were surveyed.[15]
The estimate provided in the second article are much higher than those published in other surveys from the same time. Most notably, the "Iraq Family Health Survey" published in the New England Journal of Medicine surveyed 9,345 households across Iraq and estimated 151,000 deaths due to violence (95% uncertainty range, 104,000 to 223,000) over the same period covered in the second Lancet survey by Burnham et al. The NEJM article stated that the second Lancet survey "considerably overestimated the number of violent deaths and said the Lancet results were, "highly improbable, given the internal and external consistency of the data and the much larger sample size and quality-control measures taken in the implementation of the IFHS."


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## georgephillip (Apr 25, 2014)

"Ukraine, like Russia, has a long history of violent anti-Semitism, that dates back to the 1648 Khmelnitsky pogroms and continues through the Beiliss blood libel  still an issue of contention among many Ukrainians  and the Russian Civil War, when tens of thousands of Jews were butchered.

"The existing Ukrainian Jewish community, estimated to be around 200,000, has good reason to be fearful. 

"Since gaining independence in 1991, Ukraine has spawned thriving xenophobic rightwing parties which are alleged to have spearheaded the revolt against the corrupt President Viktor Yanukovich. 

"Although only gaining 10 percent electoral support, these are genuine neo-Nazis who employ swastika symbols and are openly anti-Semitic. 

"Successive Ukrainian governments have ignored or condoned their extremist activities and made no effort to prosecute them.

"Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of Svoboda, the largest right-wing extremist nationalist faction, which holds 37 seats in the government, has called for the liberation of Ukraine from the 'Muscovite-Jewish Mafia' and refers to his opponents as 'Zhids.'

Candidly speaking: Putin, Ukraine and the Jews | JPost | Israel News

*Six to ten million lives have been lost in the Democratic Republic of Congo on behalf of Western corporations and governments. Millions more have died in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon over the past three decades. That same war has now reached the borders of its ultimate target:

Russia.*


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## Sally (Apr 25, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> "Ukraine, like Russia, has a long history of violent anti-Semitism, that dates back to the 1648 Khmelnitsky pogroms and continues through the Beiliss blood libel  still an issue of contention among many Ukrainians  and the Russian Civil War, when tens of thousands of Jews were butchered.
> 
> "The existing Ukrainian Jewish community, estimated to be around 200,000, has good reason to be fearful.
> 
> ...



Naturally, Herr George, has to drag his favorite scapegoats the Jews over to a Middle East forum.  so tell us, Herr George, when are you going to give your scapegoats a rest and tell us what is happening in the rest of the Middle East where you can't drag in the Jews.  We all realize that many innocent people have been killed around the world by different groups, but the bottom line is that you have no compassion for these people and only use them in your agenda to attempt to show the U.S. and israel in a bad light.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 25, 2014)

The zionist jews and Israel are 99% of the problem in the Middle East.   ..


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## Sweet_Caroline (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> The zionist jews and Israel are 99% of the problem in the Middle East.   ..



You mean the raging Islamists are 110% of the problem.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 25, 2014)

Nope......


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## Sally (Apr 25, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > The zionist jews and Israel are 99% of the problem in the Middle East.   ..
> ...



Just reading the news and see what is going on all over the world, it seems that most of the problems are coming from the Muslims.  Sad how so many innocent people are being murdered by them in the name of Islam.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 25, 2014)

Sad how many muslims are murdered daily by the Christians and Israeli Jews in the name of Freedom and Democracy.    ...


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## Roudy (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> The zionist jews and Israel are 99% of the problem in the Middle East.   ..


Muslim morons like you are the problem in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world.


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Troll always blames Israel for what the Muslims are guilty of. 
It's a normal tactic used by them to try and take attention off Muslim atrocities.
Anyone can see, without even looking too much into it, that Muslims are the reason for almost all the problems in the ME.


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## Roudy (Apr 25, 2014)

toastman said:


> Sunni Troll always blames Israel for what the Muslims are guilty of.
> It's a normal tactic used by them to try and take attention off Muslim atrocities.
> Anyone can see, without even looking too much into it, that Muslims are the reason for almost all the problems in the ME.


Yup, not enough sharp stones to wipe their ass with?  It's the Jooos fault!  Muslims killing each other like savages? The Joooos are to blame.  Muslims treat their women like animals?  Yup...Joooooos again!

Ha ha ha.


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## georgephillip (Apr 25, 2014)

Sally said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Ukraine, like Russia, has a long history of violent anti-Semitism, that dates back to the 1648 Khmelnitsky pogroms and continues through the Beiliss blood libel  still an issue of contention among many Ukrainians  and the Russian Civil War, when tens of thousands of Jews were butchered.
> ...


*Jews, unlike NATO politicians and generals, have lived in the Middle East for thousands of years, remember?*

"The official head of Nato is always a European politician, in order to try to show the world that its a peace-loving organization that works for harmony, reconciliation and all civilized aspirations. 

"But the real head is always a US general and the present Supreme Allied Commander Europe is Air Force General Philip Breedlove who has been grossly over-promoted from latrine orderly.

"He, like so many US generals nowadays, cant resist mouthing off about matters of international importance. 

"He told the Wall Street Journal that Russia has a 'very large and very capable and very ready force' on its border with Ukraine, with 'the entire suite that would be required to successfully have an incursion into Ukraine, should the decision be made. We think it is ready to go and we think it could accomplish its objectives in between three and five days if directed to make the actions.'  

"Does this idiot not realize that his intemperate sound-off has enraged Moscow?  

"Russia is being threatened by a foreign general. 

"Does anyone imagine that this adolescent attempt at intimidation is going to calm things down?"

NATO?s Happy Days » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


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## Sally (Apr 25, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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But, Herr George, this is the Middlke East forum, and all you really want to talk about is one things.  Surely you are not dumb enough not to realize that there are other things going on in the Middle East where you can't drag the Jews into the equation.  Try, Herr George , forgetting about your scapegoawts for a while, and concentrate on what is going on in the Middle East in general.  I am sure you can do it if you tried hard enough.  Instead of reading your usual sites, why not read an on-line newspaper that will give you some news about the Middle East.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 25, 2014)

Sally said:


> But, Herr George, this is the Middlke East forum, and all you really want to talk about is one things.  Surely you are not dumb enough not to realize that there are other things going on in the Middle East where you can't drag the Jews into the equation.  Try, Herr George , forgetting about your scapegoawts for a while, and concentrate on what is going on in the Middle East in general.  I am sure you can do it if you tried hard enough.  Instead of reading your usual sites, why not read an on-line newspaper that will give you some news about the Middle East.


Silly-Sally don't be so obtuse.

Everything that happens in the Middle East somehow/someway involves the zionist Jews.

They are diabolical in their intentions and basically evil right down to the core.    ..


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## Roudy (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > But, Herr George, this is the Middlke East forum, and all you really want to talk about is one things.  Surely you are not dumb enough not to realize that there are other things going on in the Middle East where you can't drag the Jews into the equation.  Try, Herr George , forgetting about your scapegoawts for a while, and concentrate on what is going on in the Middle East in general.  I am sure you can do it if you tried hard enough.  Instead of reading your usual sites, why not read an on-line newspaper that will give you some news about the Middle East.
> ...


Actually as I told you before, the trouble in the Middle East is because of ignorant, violent, illiterate, Muslim morons like yourself


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > But, Herr George, this is the Middlke East forum, and all you really want to talk about is one things.  Surely you are not dumb enough not to realize that there are other things going on in the Middle East where you can't drag the Jews into the equation.  Try, Herr George , forgetting about your scapegoawts for a while, and concentrate on what is going on in the Middle East in general.  I am sure you can do it if you tried hard enough.  Instead of reading your usual sites, why not read an on-line newspaper that will give you some news about the Middle East.
> ...



Again, you are accusing Jews of exactly what Muslims are guilty of.

Islamic militants, jihadists, Muslim dictators are responsible for everything bad in the ME.


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Typical Muslim who can't handle the fact that his fellow Muslims are responsible for 99% of the fighting and mayhem in the ME. 
Since Israel's birth, Muslims have been using the tactic of blaming the Zionists for problems that are not even related to them or Israel.
It's a method they use in order try and take attention off the atrocities they have taken/ are taking part in

True story.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 25, 2014)

toastman said:


> Typical Muslim who can't handle the fact that his fellow Muslims are responsible for 99% of the fighting and mayhem in the ME.
> *Since Israel's birth,* Muslims have been using the tactic of blaming the Zionists for problems that are not even related to them or Israel.
> It's a method they use in order try and take attention off the atrocities they have taken/ are taking part in


Thanks for confirming the truth, "since Israel's birth".

Yes, that is when all of the trouble in the Middle East started.   ...


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## Roudy (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Typical Muslim who can't handle the fact that his fellow Muslims are responsible for 99% of the fighting and mayhem in the ME.
> ...


Nope.  You're missing about two thousand years of Jihads, wars, Crusades, invasions and conquests by five or more empires, you ignorant, illiterate shmuck.


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Typical Muslim who can't handle the fact that his fellow Muslims are responsible for 99% of the fighting and mayhem in the ME.
> ...



Go looks at the number of people slaughtered, maimed, tortured and imprisoned by Muslim jihadis in the last ten years and get back to me Sunni Troll.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 25, 2014)

toastman said:


> Go looks at the number of people slaughtered, maimed, tortured and imprisoned by Muslim jihadis in the last ten years and get back to me Sunni Troll.


Yes, oppressed people fighting for their freedom from the brutal zionists has been a bloody affair.   ..


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Go looks at the number of people slaughtered, maimed, tortured and imprisoned by Muslim jihadis in the last ten years and get back to me Sunni Troll.
> ...



How demented are you??
More like they are fighting because of the of their dictators who are part of the government.


Sunni Troll, you're about as sharp as a ballon ...


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## Kondor3 (Apr 25, 2014)

So, what's shakin', folks? Sunni still trying to convince the audience that the Militant Islam isn't dangerous? Or that the Jews are the root of all evil?


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> So, what's shakin', folks? Sunni still trying to convince the audience that the Militant Islam isn't dangerous? Or that the Jews are the root of all evil?



You know, the usual...


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## Billo_Really (Apr 25, 2014)

toastman said:


> Typical Muslim who can't handle the fact that his fellow Muslims are responsible for 99% of the fighting and mayhem in the ME.
> Since Israel's birth, Muslims have been using the tactic of blaming the Zionists for problems that are not even related to them or Israel.
> It's a method they use in order try and take attention off the atrocities they have taken/ are taking part in
> 
> True story.


That's a moot point, because Israel doesn't take responsibility for anything they do.

In fact, I can't decide who's MORE irresponsible:
- them
- or their kiss-ass minions (on this board), who spend all 
their waking hours, blaming others for the things Israel does.​


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Typical Muslim who can't handle the fact that his fellow Muslims are responsible for 99% of the fighting and mayhem in the ME.
> ...



Funny how you come out with this lie but say nothing about the fact that Sunni Troll is blaming Zionists for things not even remotely related to them/Israel, and that his fellow jihadists, terrorists, dictators are responsible for.

Your last comment is seriously flawed as well.
You spend way more time here than I do and you blame what the Palestinians do on others as well.
Very much a hypocritical post Billo. 
I'm very angry with you!!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 25, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Pffft! The Lancet seems to be a magnet for fraudsters. They have lost all credibility.  Nobody quotes them any longer, except for idiots like you.


Not according to your own link!


> _The Lancet is a weekly peer-reviewed general medical journal. *It is one of the world's oldest and best known general medical journals*, and has been described as one of the *most prestigious medical journals in the world*._


Your little bullshit smear campaigns don't work against the big boys.



Roudy said:


> Jon Sudbø - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Jon Sudbø (born May 3, 1961) is a Norwegian dentist, physician, and former medical researcher, who was exposed as a scientific fraudster in 2006. Over a period of several years, he fabricated results in the field of oncology which he published in leading medical journals. The article that led to his downfall, which was published in The Lancet, was based on 900 patients Sudbø had fabricated entirely. The editor of The Lancet described this as the biggest scientific fraud conducted by a single researcher ever.


That's about the dentist being a fraud, not the journal.

How do you know they weren't the ones who exposed his research?




Roudy said:


> The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud
> 
> The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud
> 
> ...


Again, that's about Wakefield being the fraud, not Lancet.



Roudy said:


> The Lancet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Iraq War death toll controversy (2004)
> 
> ...


You know, the next time you want to smear one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world, you might want to spend a little more time vetting the sources you choose to use.  Because your little "Iraq Family Health Survey", was conducted by the Iraqi government...



> _  The Iraq Family Health Survey (IFHS) was a cross-sectional, nationally representative survey of 9345 households that was conducted by relevant federal and regional ministries in Iraq_


...who have a vested interest in making sure the body count is as low as possible.  That's a serious conflict of interest.

No matter what the criticism is, your response is always the same_*.....KILL THE MESSENGER!*_

And that's okay!  Because it lets the whole world know, you have no valid argument with which to rebut.


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## Roudy (Apr 25, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> So, what's shakin', folks? Sunni still trying to convince the audience that the Militant Islam isn't dangerous? Or that the Jews are the root of all evil?


Please don't scare Sunni away.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 25, 2014)

toastman said:


> Funny how you come out with this lie but say nothing about the fact that Sunni Troll is blaming Zionists for things not even remotely related to them/Israel, and that his fellow jihadists, terrorists, dictators are responsible for.
> 
> Your last comment is seriously flawed as well.
> You spend way more time here than I do and you blame what the Palestinians do on others as well.
> ...


Then it should be very easy for you to show how flawed it is, just pony up 3.............._no, check that_.................just 1 example of them (or you), admitting responsibility for something they did.

Just one example of where they (or you) went, 
_"Yep, that one was on us!"
"We're the ones guilty of that!"
"Yeah, we know, what we did was fucked!"
"But hey, shit happens!"​_Just give me one example of Israel owning up to anything.


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## Roudy (Apr 25, 2014)

Nope, the Lancet due to many instances of not publishing fraudulent articles has lost credibility as a reliable source, and just referenced one of those fraudulent articles, idiot.  Ha ha ha.  Wow, are you thick or what?  Aren't there any night schools for adults in your area where you could at least get your elementary school diploma?


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## toastman (Apr 25, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how you come out with this lie but say nothing about the fact that Sunni Troll is blaming Zionists for things not even remotely related to them/Israel, and that his fellow jihadists, terrorists, dictators are responsible for.
> ...



Israel admits it used phosphorus weapons | World news | The Guardian


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## aris2chat (Apr 26, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> The zionist jews and Israel are 99% of the problem in the Middle East.   ..




Less than 1% of the population, you give them a great deal of credit to be so much of a problem.  Muslims can live in peace with jews if they so choose.  How often have they invited jews to the mount?  How often have they purified the western wall with rose water so the jews can pray there?  How often have they invited jews to live in their ancient homeland?
Arabs choose to hate and destroy the jews rather than face the failing of their own politics, economy and fracturing of their religion.  Jews are not the problem, just the excuse for the internal weaknesses of the muslim people.  Suspicion and hate seem easier to teach than actually fixing what is wrong with the muslim leadership.  Muslims are supposed to teach peace and love, but instead they preach hate and violence, even against muslims of other sects.  Let them fix themselves and accept the jews as a benefit and possible solution for the needs of both groups.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2014)

toastman said:


> Israel admits it used phosphorus weapons | World news | The Guardian


You know, I was all set to give you credit for that one; kudos were lined up and ready to be uploaded; my respect for you was about to go up a notch..........


.......then I saw this!




> _Ms Gal-On said that her original question to the government related to suspicions that Israel has been using experimental weapons in Gaza so she was surprised when she was offered a confirmation that Israel had used phosphorus weapons in Lebanon. *"My original question was about the use of Dime [dense inert metal explosives] weapons by Israel in Gaza but instead I was given the answer to a different question," *she said. *"The use of phosphorus weapons in Lebanon is shocking and unacceptable."* _


And that just blew everything out of the water.

You don't use a different admission, to avoid responsibility on a worse atrocity.  Or to answer a question, you weren't asked.

You need to vet your examples more thoroughly before using them.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Nope, the Lancet due to many instances of not publishing fraudulent articles has lost credibility as a reliable source, and just referenced one of those fraudulent articles, idiot.  Ha ha ha.  Wow, are you thick or what?  Aren't there any night schools for adults in your area where you could at least get your elementary school diploma?


I'm sorry, ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.


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## toastman (Apr 26, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Israel admits it used phosphorus weapons | World news | The Guardian
> ...



I don't NEED to do anything. I knew you would find a way to tell me that my article was not what you were looking for.
WP is not illegal , and if any Gazans were injured/killed from it, I would like to see a mutual source that proves it.


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## toastman (Apr 26, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Israel admits it used phosphorus weapons | World news | The Guardian
> ...



Now, do YOU have any articles about Hamas, Islamic Jihad taking responsibility for their actions, and admitting they fucked up??
I doubt you will find any, because no matter who is killed in Israel, how, how many, it's always mission accomplished for them.


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## aris2chat (Apr 27, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Israel does not use WP and haven't for years.  They were not illegal when in use, but Israel willingly change to a different type less harmful in an urban setting.

Children in Lebanon are sent to collect metal, to clear an area before animals are allowed to graze, or working in fields and orchards.  Animals are more valuable than the children.
It is not just clusters or mines from Israel but hezbullah and the army have planted them or they have fallen short from within Lebanon.
These are the hazards of war everywhere, not just the middle east.
People forget that the palestinians also use WP, yet they are not held to the same standard by the media or the UN.


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> People forget that the palestinians also use WP, yet they are not held to the same standard by the media or the UN.


Really??   the Palestinian freedom fighters do not have any artillery to shoot WP rounds.

Nor do they have any air planes to drop WP bombs.

So how do they use WP against the Israeli's ??   ..


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## toastman (Apr 27, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



And as far as we know, no Palestinian has ever gotten killed from WP.

Israel did not use it as a weapon, they used it as a smoke screen.


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## Synthaholic (Apr 27, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> _*Israeli Defense Minister HAMMERS obama*_




Who gives a shit?

I mean, seriously - who gives a shit what the defense minister of some minor country says?


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## toastman (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > People forget that the palestinians also use WP, yet they are not held to the same standard by the media or the UN.
> ...



WP can be used is missiles and mortars as well Sunni Troll.

BTW , are you having fun still digging up old threads from Sally for the sole purpose of trolling? Does it make you happy?


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## Sunni Man (Apr 27, 2014)

No doubt   ..


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## aris2chat (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > People forget that the palestinians also use WP, yet they are not held to the same standard by the media or the UN.
> ...



Palestinians used WP illegally in mortar as a chemical weapon.  Israel used it legally as smokescreens.
Hamas admitted it's use back in 2010 and were still using it 2012.  
Israel have replaced their WP smokescreens with ones gas based instead.


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## toastman (Apr 27, 2014)

Sunni Man said:


> No doubt   ..



Well at least you admit you're a deadbeat loser....

No doubt about that


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## Billo_Really (Apr 27, 2014)

toastman said:


> I don't NEED to do anything.


Oh, I think you do.



toastman said:


> I knew you would find a way to tell me that my article was not what you were looking for.


It was more like that way found me.



toastman said:


> WP is not illegal ,


If you shoot it into the sky for illumination, but not if you shoot it at people or in an urban area.



toastman said:


> and if any Gazans were injured/killed from it, I would like to see a mutual source that proves it.


That's the difference between you and me.  I don't filter your sources, I just comment on them.  You, on the other hand, feel the need to play this bullshit source game, as if the source determined whether the claim was true or false.  And that's just ridiculous.  It's also why ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.

If Fox News said the sky was blue, do we automatically treat it as "bullshit", because it came from Fox News?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 27, 2014)

toastman said:


> Now, do YOU have any articles about Hamas, Islamic Jihad taking responsibility for their actions, and admitting they fucked up??


No.




toastman said:


> I doubt you will find any,


Then why did you ask me?




toastman said:


> because no matter who is killed in Israel, how, how many, it's always mission accomplished for them.


Well, it can't be _"always"!_

There have been only 28 deaths out of 16,000 rocket attacks since 2001.


----------



## toastman (Apr 27, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > I don't NEED to do anything.
> ...



In other words, you believe anything you read if it's against Israel.
Any link that proves anyone was killed by WP?


----------



## toastman (Apr 27, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Now, do YOU have any articles about Hamas, Islamic Jihad taking responsibility for their actions, and admitting they fucked up??
> ...



Only 16 Israelis died since 2001? Hamas only used rockets?

You have reading comprehension issues, i said ALWAYS as is whenever an Israeli is killed, it's ALWAYS mission accomplished for them..


----------

