# Geothermal Technology



## Nate (May 10, 2010)

Not to derail Chris' thread on Solar Panel technology and turning it into which "green" energy source is better I decided to make a thread on the technology I see paving the way towards more efficient and less enviromentally damaging energy.
IMO by today's tech standards both Solar Panel and Wind Turbine energy are not up to par for breaking us away from the Fossil Fuel Tit, the way to go is Geothermal. Raser Technologies Inc. is a cut above the rest with their introduction of the closed loop, lower temp modular that they have already built in Utah;

With alternative energy, sometimes it's as simple as getting energy from the earth.



> "What we are doing is literally farming heat from the earth," says Brent Cook, CEO of Raser Technologies Inc., talking about the revolutionary new closed loop, lower temperature, and modular approach the Utah-based company is taking to geothermal power development.
> 
> *What's particularly exciting is that this same power generation technology has the potential to be applied in any industrial setting where heat is a byproduct.*
> 
> ...


http://www.altenerg.com/back_issues/index.php?content_id=168

The bold section is where it becomes really interesting. Imagine being able to draw energy from the waste heat from an industrial site!


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## Old Rocks (May 12, 2010)

It will take all the differant technologies to create a clean energy grid, including nuclear. And the more types of energy you have on one grid, the more robust that grid is.


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## waltky (Nov 10, 2017)

Nuclear facility might see use as geothermal plant...





*Nuclear facility might see use as geothermal plant*
_Tue, Nov 07, 2017 - NUCLEAR ISSUE: The minister said Taipower has proposed to transport nuclear waste stored on Orchid Island back to the nuclear plants or to choose a site for centralized storage_


> The Atomic Energy Council (AEC) is to launch a plan by the end of this year that would see nuclear power plants transformed into geothermal power generation facilities, AEC Minister Hsieh Shou-shing said yesterday.  The nation’s three operating nuclear plants are to be decommissioned one after the other until 2025 and this retirement is proceeding as scheduled, Hsieh told the legislature’s Education and Culture Committee yesterday, adding that the council has also funded efforts to study “green” energy in recent years.  Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) Legislator Rosalia Wu said the council should be tasked with the development of geothermal power, given that a viable source can be found about 20km beneath the Guosheng Nuclear Power Plant in New Taipei City’s Wanli District.
> 
> One of Wu’s references was a March 4 op-ed by Wang Shou-cheng on TechNews. In the article, Wang encouraged the government to set up a geothermal energy development zone in Wanli and Jinshan districts where two nuclear power plants are located.  While the nation hopes to generate 20 percent of its electricity from renewable sources, geothermal power should not be marginalized in consideration of different sources, Wu said.  The government should consider launching a more progressive plan to make use of the geothermal energy stored beneath the Guosheng plant, Wu said, adding that the AEC must play a more active role in such a plan.
> 
> ...


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## elektra (Nov 11, 2017)

Talk about an old thread, this Geothermal project failed and Raser technologies went bankrupt!


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## Old Rocks (Nov 12, 2017)

EDGERTON, Wis. - Edgerton Hospital’s groundbreaking idea to use geothermal energy to heat and cool the facility is now paying off.

The hospital celebrated being open for five yearsin October and the amount of money it has saved in natural gas costs during that time has already paid for the roughly $850,000 geothermal system.

“Originally, it was projected that it would take us 11 years to recoup that cost,” CEO Jim Schultzsaid. “As of October, we were 5 years old, and we have now paid for the system and are saving about $15,000 a month in energy.”

Edgerton Hospital's geothermal energy pays off

*Significant savings.*


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## elektra (Nov 12, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> EDGERTON, Wis. - Edgerton Hospital’s groundbreaking idea to use geothermal energy to heat and cool the facility is now paying off.
> 
> “Originally, it was projected that it would take us 11 years to recoup that cost,” CEO Jim Schultzsaid. “As of October, we were 5 years old, and we have now paid for the system and are saving about $15,000 a month in energy.”


Yet, it does not work and the cost just began!



> In addition to the geothermal system, the hospital is evaluating other ways to conserve energy.
> “We would really like to become more self-sufficient in our electricity use,” Schultz said.
> He said the hospital is exploring using LED lights and possibly wind or solar energy.





> The 18- bed Edgerton Hospital was built in 2011



18 beds and they save $15,000? There is no way possible an 18 bed hospital uses enough electricity to save $15k a month!

Looking further, we find out that the system was given to the hospital!


> Edgerton Hospital received a financial incentive from Focus on Energy



Oh, it is free money to doctors as well, it includes an office building, community areas, all kinds of freebies.


> The 60,000 square foot complex includes emergency urgent care services, a medical office building, skilled care facility, community rooms, imaging, surgery, lab and physical therapy area


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## Old Rocks (Nov 13, 2017)

Silly ass, Elektra, that type of geothermal works very well, and is used all over the world. You simply don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.


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## longknife (Nov 14, 2017)

Geothermal has been in use in Iceland for some time and is quite successful. I guess it only works in certain locations.


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## anotherlife (Nov 14, 2017)

Geothermal is great.  Imagine what a tactical advantage it would be if your army can just punch through the earths crust anywhere it is advancing and refuel that way, instead of having to import gasoline and transport it through vulnerable supply lines.  Geothermal certainly deserves more investment.  Especially the drilling part.


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## Death Angel (Nov 16, 2017)

anotherlife said:


> Geothermal is great.  Imagine what a tactical advantage it would be if your army can just punch through the earths crust anywhere it is advancing and refuel that way, instead of having to import gasoline and transport it through vulnerable supply lines.  Geothermal certainly deserves more investment.  Especially the drilling part.


How exactly do you think that would work? Any idea how deep the earths crust is?

And how the hell dies heat, deep within the earth replace gasoline and jet fuel?


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## anotherlife (Nov 16, 2017)

Death Angel said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Geothermal is great.  Imagine what a tactical advantage it would be if your army can just punch through the earths crust anywhere it is advancing and refuel that way, instead of having to import gasoline and transport it through vulnerable supply lines.  Geothermal certainly deserves more investment.  Especially the drilling part.
> ...



I don't know, that requires scientific and engineering research.  It is an energy source though, that can be made globally uniform in this way.  And every technological advancement is a byproduct of military strategy.


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## Death Angel (Nov 16, 2017)

anotherlife said:


> I don't know, that requires scientific and engineering research. It is an energy source though, that can be made globally uniform in this way


You can't fuel jets and vehicles with heat you have to dig 30 miles for.

I'm a fan of geothermal, but it is your statement that the military can use this on the battlefield, that is ridiculous.

Scientists want to be first to drill into the Earth's mantle - CNN


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## mamooth (Nov 16, 2017)

Death Angel said:


> And how the hell dies heat, deep within the earth replace gasoline and jet fuel?



With enough energy, you can turn water and CO2 into hydrocarbon fuel. But you're right, that doesn't mean it's sensible to drill down 30 miles.

The Navy was researching this for use on their aircraft carriers, the theory being that electricity from the nuclear reactors could be used to make jet fuel. It wouldn't be cost effective, as it would be cheaper to buy jet fuel, but it would enable an aircraft carrier to keep operating aircraft without needing to load on more jet fuel.

Anyways, I think we should start tapping the area around Yellowstone more. The more heat you draw off the hotspot, the safer it gets. A few wells won't matter, but ten thousand wells operating for a century would pull off a significant fraction of the heat.


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## Tax Man (Nov 16, 2017)

In the early 70's i worked on the Geysers geothermal power plant construction. This is on Cobb mountain near Middletown by Santa Rosa California. It is still running and producing power. Being that it was a natural release of earths heat in the region there was a good reason to believe it would work and it does, there.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 18, 2017)

You go a hundred feet down anywhere, and the temperature is pretty stable, usually around 50 degrees. That is a geothermal resource for heating or cooling. There are many areas that have 'warm' geothermal resources, less than 100 degrees C, but still hot, that can be used to generate electricity. And many area where there are very hot rocks, but we would have to pump water down to those rocks in order to have steam for the turbines. Each area presents different challenges, and different opportunities.


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## BULLDOG (Nov 18, 2017)

Death Angel said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Geothermal is great.  Imagine what a tactical advantage it would be if your army can just punch through the earths crust anywhere it is advancing and refuel that way, instead of having to import gasoline and transport it through vulnerable supply lines.  Geothermal certainly deserves more investment.  Especially the drilling part.
> ...



It powers generators that charge the batteries of electric cars.


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## BULLDOG (Nov 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> You go a hundred feet down anywhere, and the temperature is pretty stable, usually around 50 degrees. That is a geothermal resource for heating or cooling. There are many areas that have 'warm' geothermal resources, less than 100 degrees C, but still hot, that can be used to generate electricity. And many area where there are very hot rocks, but we would have to pump water down to those rocks in order to have steam for the turbines. Each area presents different challenges, and different opportunities.



Go down 10 feet and you get stable 50 degrees or so. Possibly a little lower in the north, but still stable.


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## elektra (Nov 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Silly ass, Elektra, that type of geothermal works very well, and is used all over the world. You simply don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.


hey, dumbass, first and foremost, HEAT PUMPS are not geothermal. But, Geothermal is so weak, so ineffective, and renewable clean green energy is such a failure, they must include something to make it seem like it works!


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## elektra (Nov 18, 2017)

this is not geothermal energy nor is it green, clean, renewable energy, but, because Renewables are so weak, you got to include something to get those numbers up


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## BULLDOG (Nov 18, 2017)

elektra said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Silly ass, Elektra, that type of geothermal works very well, and is used all over the world. You simply don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
> ...




Geothermal heat pump - Wikipedia


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## Muhammed (Nov 18, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Silly ass, Elektra, that type of geothermal works very well, and is used all over the world. You simply don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.


A great example is Iceland. Most of the power is geothermal.


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## elektra (Nov 25, 2017)

BULLDOG said:


> elektra said:
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> > Old Rocks said:
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wikipedia, nice job, we can always turn to the liberal websites to dictate what is and what is not in the world


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## elektra (Nov 25, 2017)

Muhammed said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Silly ass, Elektra, that type of geothermal works very well, and is used all over the world. You simply don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.
> ...


72% of the electricity comes from Hydropower. Geothermal mostly used for heat. The majority of the Geothermal energy used in Iceland has no relation to the OP of this thread.

Geothermal Power in Iceland is not Heat Pumps. Heat pumps may be used in rural areas, but the majority of the heat is from Geothermal sources


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## BULLDOG (Nov 25, 2017)

elektra said:


> BULLDOG said:
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> > elektra said:
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You should tell the major air conditioner manufacturers that ground source heat pumps don't exist. They have been selling them for decades.
Geothermal Heat Pumps | Carrier Residential


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## elektra (Nov 26, 2017)

BULLDOG said:


> elektra said:
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great, I will have to do that, and in the mean time, you should go 100% Heat Pump, to run your computer, you stove, everything, even your lighting. At the same time you could also burn you garbage, that is actually called Renewable as well. Between burning garbage and using a heat pump, you have no need for anything else.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 27, 2017)

Obviously you haven't a clue what a heat pump geothermal system is or it's purpose.


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## BULLDOG (Nov 27, 2017)

elektra said:


> BULLDOG said:
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> > elektra said:
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It's still a little expensive for me to do that just yet, but those systems do exist. With the efforts being put into development, it won't be too long before they will be financially viable.Is that something else that fox forgot to tell you about?
http://www.oit.edu/docs/default-sou...y-bulletin/vol-20/20-2/20-2-art2.pdf?sfvrsn=4


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## elektra (Nov 28, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Obviously you haven't a clue what a heat pump geothermal system is or it's purpose.


make up your mind, is it geothermal or a simple heat pump


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## elektra (Nov 28, 2017)

BULLDOG said:


> It's still a little expensive for me to do that just yet, but those systems do exist. With the efforts being put into development, it won't be too long before they will be financially viable.Is that something else that fox forgot to tell you about?
> http://www.oit.edu/docs/default-sou...y-bulletin/vol-20/20-2/20-2-art2.pdf?sfvrsn=4


expensive, do tell?


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## BULLDOG (Nov 28, 2017)

elektra said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > It's still a little expensive for me to do that just yet, but those systems do exist. With the efforts being put into development, it won't be too long before they will be financially viable.Is that something else that fox forgot to tell you about?
> ...



Simple heating and cooling from the geothermal heat pumps is easily affordable,but to supply the electricity is available but expensive. Think of it like the flat screen TVs were a few years back. The first ones were many thousands of dollars, but now you can get one for around 100 bucks. Expect the same price drop for geothermal supplied electricity. . .


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## westwall (Nov 28, 2017)

longknife said:


> Geothermal has been in use in Iceland for some time and is quite successful. I guess it only works in certain locations.






Currently that is true.  Geothermal IMO will be the next great green energy system to be developed after hydroelectric.  Solar will always have a place but I truly hope they get rid of those ridiculous windmills.  The major problem with geothermal power generating systems at the moment is the extremely caustic fluids that are part and parcel of geothermal sites.  They will eat a stainless steel pipe in only a few months in many cases, the maintenance on those plants is a problem at the moment.  Beat that issue and geothermal will take off.


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## elektra (Dec 1, 2017)

BULLDOG said:


> elektra said:
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Think of  geothermal as being, 200 years old? 2000 years old. Think of there is big difference in the earth, the area you are thinking of is dirt, nothing more. Flat Screen TV's compared to dirt, I think TV's will improve but dirt will always be dirt. Seriously.


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## elektra (Dec 1, 2017)

westwall said:


> Currently that is true.  Geothermal IMO will be the next great green energy system to be developed after hydroelectric.  Solar will always have a place but I truly hope they get rid of those ridiculous windmills.  The major problem with geothermal power generating systems at the moment is the extremely caustic fluids that are part and parcel of geothermal sites.  They will eat a stainless steel pipe in only a few months in many cases, the maintenance on those plants is a problem at the moment.  Beat that issue and geothermal will take off.


Geothermal, same as taking the lid off a tea kettle, no different. Every single geothermal source is no different. Geysers in California, they pump water into the ground to replenish the steam, water (as in what california is short of). Calipatria, which is certainly thee richest geothermal source in the USA, constantly drilling for new sources, constantly. Open a geothermal well and they begin their death, they let off the steam, no different then a tea kettle. Hardly technology.


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## HenryBHough (Dec 1, 2017)

Problem with geothermal in The U.S. is that the sources of really hot water are not close enough to areas of high electrical usage and transmission lines are both expensive and relatively inefficient over long distances.  I have long worked with a location that heats buildings with water taken directly from the ground and grows abundant crops in soil heated by that hot water circulating in buried plastic pipes.  But no generation of electricity as the water is not hot enough to run anything conventional without being raised further.  Solar helps some of the time.  With enough technology the water could be used at the stable temperature but that technology is currently too expensive and the nearest location that could buy any of it is nearly 100 miles away and with a population of less than 5,000.

Stirling engine - Wikipedia

???  maybe economical enough to one day work for the site noted above on a local basis - but not for transmission


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## elektra (Dec 1, 2017)

The biggest problem with geothermal, is most geothermal sources are toxic poison.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 1, 2017)

HenryBHough said:


> Problem with geothermal in The U.S. is that the sources of really hot water are not close enough to areas of high electrical usage and transmission lines are both expensive and relatively inefficient over long distances.  I have long worked with a location that heats buildings with water taken directly from the ground and grows abundant crops in soil heated by that hot water circulating in buried plastic pipes.  But no generation of electricity as the water is not hot enough to run anything conventional without being raised further.  Solar helps some of the time.  With enough technology the water could be used at the stable temperature but that technology is currently too expensive and the nearest location that could buy any of it is nearly 100 miles away and with a population of less than 5,000.
> 
> Stirling engine - Wikipedia
> 
> ???  maybe economical enough to one day work for the site noted above on a local basis - but not for transmission


Here in Oregon, we have several large basins with hot water geothermal, 180-200 F, that are have ridges east and west of the basins with very high wind potential. And most of that area gets 250 to 300 days of sunshine a year. Most of the area is BLM, and the basalt ridges are mostly bare rock. Very little ecological disturbance from wind mills and PV solar on the ridges, with warm water generators in the basins, using the warm water after is used to heat the operating fluid in the generators, for greenhouses before it is pumped back into the ground.

All it needs is a grid. The government could put that in, the same way they did the Interstate Highway system, and charge so much per kw for the electricity that the grid carries. Huge market just south of us.


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## elektra (Dec 3, 2017)

And as soon as you tap into the toxic geothermal source, you relive the pressure and the energy drops, daily.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 3, 2017)

So Iceland has no energy today from geothermal, correct?  LOL


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## elektra (Dec 4, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> So Iceland has no energy today from geothermal, correct?  LOL





anotherlife said:


> Geothermal is great.  Imagine what a tactical advantage it would be if your army can just punch through the earths crust anywhere it is advancing and refuel that way, instead of having to import gasoline and transport it through vulnerable supply lines.  Geothermal certainly deserves more investment.  Especially the drilling part.


As if Oil companies have not researched and developed the best, quickest, drilling techniques in the world. Geothermal is drilled for, no different than if you drill for oil.


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## elektra (Dec 4, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> So Iceland has no energy today from geothermal, correct?  LOL


No clean, Geothermal.


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## sakinago (Dec 4, 2017)

Nate said:


> Not to derail Chris' thread on Solar Panel technology and turning it into which "green" energy source is better I decided to make a thread on the technology I see paving the way towards more efficient and less enviromentally damaging energy.
> IMO by today's tech standards both Solar Panel and Wind Turbine energy are not up to par for breaking us away from the Fossil Fuel Tit, the way to go is Geothermal. Raser Technologies Inc. is a cut above the rest with their introduction of the closed loop, lower temp modular that they have already built in Utah;
> 
> With alternative energy, sometimes it's as simple as getting energy from the earth.
> ...



I agree that solar and wind aren’t up to par. But don’t you have to dig pretty far down for geothermal?


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## Old Rocks (Dec 4, 2017)

Depends on where you are. On the slopes of the Newberry Volcano, not far at all, on the East Coast, pretty deep in most places.


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## sakinago (Dec 4, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Depends on where you are. On the slopes of the Newberry Volcano, not far at all, on the East Coast, pretty deep in most places.


Oh well I knew that, the picture kind of suggested they’ll just dig 15 feet under your house and boom


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## Old Rocks (Dec 5, 2017)

I think that you are confusing the geothermal used to heat and cool a home by the fact that about 10' under the ground, the temperature is about 55 degrees year around. You use that to warm or cool the air according to the time of year. It can come from as little as 15', but is usually deeper. The geothermal that we were referring to is hot, either hot water or steam. 






The Future of Geothermal Energy (MIT-2006) | Geothermal Energy | Electricity Generation


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## longknife (Dec 6, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> I think that you are confusing the geothermal used to heat and cool a home by the fact that about 10' under the ground, the temperature is about 55 degrees year around. You use that to warm or cool the air according to the time of year. It can come from as little as 15', but is usually deeper. The geothermal that we were referring to is hot, either hot water or steam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It amazes me that primitive cultures understood the benefits of digging into the earth to make their homes and storage facilities. Might be 100° outside but nice and cool inside.


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## elektra (Dec 6, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


> Depends on where you are. On the slopes of the Newberry Volcano, not far at all, on the East Coast, pretty deep in most places.


Liar, link liar link


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## Old Rocks (Dec 6, 2017)

Post #44, you poor illiterate bastard.


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