# Protesters to remain on Wall St until Monday



## Dot Com

Those people on Wall St don't "make" anything. They make their money oftentimes "shorting" people like Goldmann did.
Protesters invade NYC Financial District - US news - Life - msnbc.com


> Demonstrators gathered in parks and plazas in Lower Manhattan and said they were determined to stay at least through the weekend so they could confront Wall Street workers on Monday morning.protest of what they said was corporate greed favoring the rich at the expense of ordinary people.
> "It's a worthy cause because people on Wall Street are blood-sucking warmongers," Bill Steyerd, 68, a Vietnam veteran from Queens, told the New York Daily News. "I'm here, and in spite of these dinky barricades, we're going to shut down Wall Street with people power."


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## PoliticalChic

Dot Com said:


> Those people on Wall St don't "make" anything. They make their money oftentimes "shorting" people like Goldmann did.
> Protesters invade NYC Financial District - US news - Life - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrators gathered in parks and plazas in Lower Manhattan and said they were determined to stay at least through the weekend so they could confront Wall Street workers on Monday morning.protest of what they said was corporate greed favoring the rich at the expense of ordinary people.
> "It's a worthy cause because people on Wall Street are blood-sucking warmongers," Bill Steyerd, 68, a Vietnam veteran from Queens, told the New York Daily News. "I'm here, and in spite of these dinky barricades, we're going to shut down Wall Street with people power."
Click to expand...


"For months the protesters had planned to descend on Wall Street on a Saturday and occupy parts of it as an expression of anger over a financial system that they say favors the rich and powerful at the expense of ordinary citizens.

As it turned out, the demonstrators found much of their target off limits on Saturday as the city shut down sections of Wall Street near the New York Stock Exchange and Federal Hall well before their arrival.

By 10 a.m., metal barricades manned by police officers ringed the blocks of Wall Street between Broadway and William Street to the east. (In a statement, Paul J. Browne, the Police Departments chief spokesman said, A protest area was established on Broad Street at Exchange Street, next to the stock exchange, but protesters elected not to use it.) 

Organizers, promoters and supporters called the day, which had been widely discussed on Twitter and other social media sites, simply September 17. Some referred to it as the United States Day of Rage, an apparent reference to a series of disruptive protests against the Vietnam War held in Chicago in 1969."
Wall Street Protest Begins, With Demonstrators Blocked - NYTimes.com



Did I mention that the New York City Police Department is the best in the world?


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## OODA_Loop

Time for the LRAD.


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## editec

This is a demonstration that appears to be going nowhere.


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## Stephanie

what a bunch of dumb asses.


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## Dot Com

PoliticalChic said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people on Wall St don't "make" anything. They make their money oftentimes "shorting" people like Goldmann did.
> Protesters invade NYC Financial District - US news - Life - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrators gathered in parks and plazas in Lower Manhattan and said they were determined to stay at least through the weekend so they could confront Wall Street workers on Monday morning.protest of what they said was corporate greed favoring the rich at the expense of ordinary people.
> "It's a worthy cause because people on Wall Street are blood-sucking warmongers," Bill Steyerd, 68, a Vietnam veteran from Queens, told the New York Daily News. "I'm here, and in spite of these dinky barricades, we're going to shut down Wall Street with people power."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "For months the protesters had planned to descend on Wall Street on a Saturday and occupy parts of it as an expression of anger over a financial system that they say favors the rich and powerful at the expense of ordinary citizens.
> 
> As it turned out, the demonstrators found much of their target off limits on Saturday as the city shut down sections of Wall Street near the New York Stock Exchange and Federal Hall well before their arrival.
> 
> By 10 a.m., metal barricades manned by police officers ringed the blocks of Wall Street between Broadway and William Street to the east. (In a statement, Paul J. Browne, the Police Departments chief spokesman said, A protest area was established on Broad Street at Exchange Street, next to the stock exchange, but protesters elected not to use it.)
> 
> Organizers, promoters and supporters called the day, which had been widely discussed on Twitter and other social media sites, simply September 17. Some referred to it as the United States Day of Rage, an apparent reference to a series of disruptive protests against the Vietnam War held in Chicago in 1969."
> Wall Street Protest Begins, With Demonstrators Blocked - NYTimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention that the New York City Police Department is the best in the world?
Click to expand...


says the rightie thug


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## Dr.House

PoliticalChic said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people on Wall St don't "make" anything. They make their money oftentimes "shorting" people like Goldmann did.
> Protesters invade NYC Financial District - US news - Life - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrators gathered in parks and plazas in Lower Manhattan and said they were determined to stay at least through the weekend so they could confront Wall Street workers on Monday morning.protest of what they said was corporate greed favoring the rich at the expense of ordinary people.
> "It's a worthy cause because people on Wall Street are blood-sucking warmongers," Bill Steyerd, 68, a Vietnam veteran from Queens, told the New York Daily News. "I'm here, and in spite of these dinky barricades, we're going to shut down Wall Street with people power."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "For months the protesters had planned to descend on Wall Street on a Saturday and occupy parts of it as an expression of anger over a financial system that they say favors the rich and powerful at the expense of ordinary citizens.
> 
> As it turned out, the demonstrators found much of their target off limits on Saturday as the city shut down sections of Wall Street near the New York Stock Exchange and Federal Hall well before their arrival.
> 
> By 10 a.m., metal barricades manned by police officers ringed the blocks of Wall Street between Broadway and William Street to the east. (In a statement, Paul J. Browne, the Police Departments chief spokesman said, A protest area was established on Broad Street at Exchange Street, next to the stock exchange, but protesters elected not to use it.)
> 
> Organizers, promoters and supporters called the day, which had been widely discussed on Twitter and other social media sites, simply September 17. Some referred to it as the United States Day of Rage, an apparent reference to a series of disruptive protests against the Vietnam War held in Chicago in 1969."
> Wall Street Protest Begins, With Demonstrators Blocked - NYTimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention that the New York City Police Department is the best in the world?
Click to expand...



Let the liberal whining and teeth gnashing begin....


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## Dot Com

Houseboy shows up right on cue and adds nothing of substance as is his style zzz.


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## whitehall

Barney Frank was in charge of Fannie Mae when it collapsed and brought down the lending industry and impacted the banking industry and Wall Street. Wall Street corporations keep every pension in the United States solvent but the left wing pot smoking kids wouldn't care about that until they saw how the federal government handled their social security. Wall Street ain't your enemy you dumb putzes, it's your friend. Go demonstrate in front of the White House.


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## Mr. H.

If Wall Street is such a sweet ride then go hop on that pony. 
Pony up or shut the fuck up. 
Liberals envy success, but rather than work towards it they'd more easily hang on the stirrups and blame the rider for their problems.


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## Dot Com

If by "success" you mean fleecing the other 90%+ then no, I don't envy them. I call Wall St "East Las Vegas" for a reason. The House (Wall St banks) never lose but investors do.


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## whitehall

Dot Com said:


> If by "success" you mean fleecing the other 90%+ then no, I don't envy them. I call Wall St "East Las Vegas" for a reason. The House (Wall St banks) never lose but investors do.



You have it bass-ackwards dottie. Everyone is invested in Wall Street. Wall Street r us and Wall Street always pays a dividend. American pensions depend on it. How well has social security done with a FICA tax at the point of a gun for seventy years? The federal government spent every dime like a drunken community activist with a stolen ATM card. Wall Street ain't your enemy dottie. Dumb criminal democrat politicians are.


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## daveman

Sooo...was Truth spoken to Power?

Did anyone listen?  Did it have any impact?

No?


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## Unkotare

What a display of national rage! Perhaps more than 100 people showed up! The very continent shifted from the concentration of human mass in one place! Oh, sorry, that was just Michael Moore...



Nothing more than a few clowns looking for a circus.


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## Dot Com

whitehall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> If by "success" you mean fleecing the other 90%+ then no, I don't envy them. I call Wall St "East Las Vegas" for a reason. The House (Wall St banks) never lose but investors do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have it bass-ackwards dottie. Everyone is invested in Wall Street. Wall Street r us and Wall Street always pays a dividend. American pensions depend on it. How well has social security done with a FICA tax at the point of a gun for seventy years? The federal government spent every dime like a drunken community activist with a stolen ATM card. Wall Street ain't your enemy dottie. Dumb criminal democrat politicians are.
Click to expand...


Yeah and Goldman wanted their $ back BEFORE the pensioners. What books have you read on the subject?


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## Dot Com

I'm over 1/2-way done w/ the book "Griftopia" and I'd be there too if I could

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/20/7859191-protesters-continue-to-flood-wall-street


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## PoliticalChic

Dot Com said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people on Wall St don't "make" anything. They make their money oftentimes "shorting" people like Goldmann did.
> Protesters invade NYC Financial District - US news - Life - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "For months the protesters had planned to descend on Wall Street on a Saturday and occupy parts of it as an expression of anger over a financial system that they say favors the rich and powerful at the expense of ordinary citizens.
> 
> As it turned out, the demonstrators found much of their target off limits on Saturday as the city shut down sections of Wall Street near the New York Stock Exchange and Federal Hall well before their arrival.
> 
> By 10 a.m., metal barricades manned by police officers ringed the blocks of Wall Street between Broadway and William Street to the east. (In a statement, Paul J. Browne, the Police Departments chief spokesman said, A protest area was established on Broad Street at Exchange Street, next to the stock exchange, but protesters elected not to use it.)
> 
> Organizers, promoters and supporters called the day, which had been widely discussed on Twitter and other social media sites, simply September 17. Some referred to it as the United States Day of Rage, an apparent reference to a series of disruptive protests against the Vietnam War held in Chicago in 1969."
> Wall Street Protest Begins, With Demonstrators Blocked - NYTimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention that the New York City Police Department is the best in the world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> says the rightie thug
Click to expand...


Don't make me go to UPPER-CASE, Dotty!


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## TakeAStepBack

Protesting your government because they are corrupt and asking them to create MORE government to regulate the corrupt government we already have is absolutely ridiculous.

"Yeah, we really need more government to clean up this corrupt and wasteful government we have."


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## daveman

TakeAStepBack said:


> Protesting your government because they are corrupt and asking them to create MORE government to regulate the corrupt government we already have is absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> "Yeah, we really need more government to clean up this corrupt and wasteful government we have."


Oh, c'mon.  You don't really think they've given this any thought, do you?


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## Dot Com

Wall St is government sanctioned thievery  Thanks for watering down campaign finance reform Repubs!!!  They'd repeal it if they could.


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## Dot Com

daveman said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protesting your government because they are corrupt and asking them to create MORE government to regulate the corrupt government we already have is absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> "Yeah, we really need more government to clean up this corrupt and wasteful government we have."
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, c'mon.  You don't really think they've given this any thought, do you?
Click to expand...


what are your economic credentials aside from the fact you've prolly read Atlas Farted?


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## TakeAStepBack

Economic credentials? I don't need any.

The fact is, petitioning the government to regulate its corruption and waste, is like asking a heroin addict to regulate his/her addiction.


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## Dot Com

TakeAStepBack said:


> Economic credentials? I don't need any.
> 
> The fact is, petitioning the government to regulate its corruption and waste, is like asking a heroin addict to regulate his/her addiction.



I was addressing daveman. I don't take issue w/ your post as greed is non-partisan.


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## iamwhatiseem

So from what I can see, unless I am missing something...there were "dozens" of people there...and it made the New York Times???????????
Really???
There are more people in line waiting on Starbucks to give them their coffee on an average morning than this.


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## Rocky Top Lady

Did they ever decide what "one simple demand" to "incessantly repeat"?


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## Dot Com

Rocky Top Lady said:


> Did they ever decide what "one simple demand" to "incessantly repeat"?



Ever heard of Goldman or M. Stanley?
Protesters invade NYC Financial District - US news - Life - msnbc.com


> protest of what they said was corporate greed favoring the rich at the expense of ordinary people.



This is true as commercial banks knowingly sold junk and shorted it as they did so.


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## percysunshine

Oink!


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## Dot Com

Ever heard of Fabrice Tourre? Why am I asking conservatives this? They don't read.  They're Randians for crying out land. Privelidge is King .


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## Dot Com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLx2Xc1EXLg]Sen. Levin Grills Goldman Sachs Exec On "Shitty Deal" E-mail - YouTube[/ame]​


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## percysunshine

Double Oink!


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## Dot Com

We don't need regulation right Randians/conservatives? 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI--LdhdIBg&feature=related]Lloyd Blankfein doesn&#39;t want to answer Senator Tom Coburn&#39;s question - YouTube[/ame]​


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## Dot Com

Randians cheer-on their own fleecing? You people do realize that you aint really "rich" right? My gawd you people are ideologues


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## Dot Com

"Epistemic closure". Google it


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## daveman

Dot Com said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protesting your government because they are corrupt and asking them to create MORE government to regulate the corrupt government we already have is absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> "Yeah, we really need more government to clean up this corrupt and wasteful government we have."
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, c'mon.  You don't really think they've given this any thought, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what are your economic credentials aside from the fact you've prolly read Atlas Farted?
Click to expand...

My credentials are I know that mindless platitudes on protest signs are no substitute for rational thought.

You might wanna look into that.


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## daveman

Dot Com said:


> Ever heard of Fabrice Tourre? Why am I asking conservatives this? They don't read.  They're Randians for crying out land. Privelidge is King .


"Crying out _loud_".

"Privilege".  

When you condemn others for ignorance, you might not want to display so much of your own.


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## Dot Com

2- MORE 'non-answers' from daveman. Go back to the nailin palin thread son.


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## daveman

Dot Com said:


> 2- MORE 'non-answers' from daveman. Go back to the nailin palin thread son.


  You fucked up...and it's MY fault.  

Man up, boy, and take responsibility for yourself. 

But it'll never happen.


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## Dragon

TakeAStepBack said:


> Protesting your government because they are corrupt and asking them to create MORE government to regulate the corrupt government we already have is absolutely ridiculous.



Only if you see "corrupt government" as a redundancy. Obviously, not everyone does.


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## Oldstyle

Wow, the turn out was "roughly 150"?  I wasn't expecting a huge turnout by any means but only 150 in NYC is pathetic.  Looks like the left needs to hire some protestors like they did in Wisconsin.


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## Dot Com

you never told me what books you read about the Great Recession.  I'm not interested in "opinions" here.


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## Dot Com

PhotoBlog - Protesters march in Manhattan, criticizing Wall Street, getting arrested


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## bitterlyclingin

I saw this Associated Press photo of the demonstration near Wall Street and thought: Thats what conservatives have been saying: DEBT= SLAVERY.

Nothing else from the left comes closer to stating  even if she fails to understand the full meaning of that statement. Without economic freedom, no one is free. If you are indebted to the state for your meals, then you are not truly a free man. You are not self-reliant. Despots often rise to power on promises of free bread, occasionally throwing in a circus or two. This costs money. Generations of  parliaments and Congresses around the industrialized world have put those free meals on the credit card. Now the bills are coming due.

What to do?

Apparently governments are hiding behind protests. Just a few days ago, billionaire Mayor Mike Bloomberg warned of an uprising. Son-of-a-gun if he did not get one.

But what is the difference between this and a tea party? Younger and better-looking demonstrators? True. But also the aim is at capitalism  the chief rival to todays modern government. I would say to her, the problem lies not with the lender, but rather the borrower.

By the way, the tea party attracts larger crowds and no on gets arrested.


Photo of the day « Don Surber


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## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> What a display of national rage! Perhaps more than 100 people showed up! The very continent shifted from the concentration of human mass in one place! Oh, sorry, that was just Michael Moore...
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing more than a few clowns looking for a circus.





I'm sure they'd get lots more folks if Starbuck's wasn't open....


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## initforme

Wall Street exemplifies that in america big money controls everything.   I would stake everything I have that there is more corruption per square foot on wall street than anywhere.   Imagine all the crooked deals to hurt the working class.   Scary.   Probably better we dont know.  We now live in a plutocracy.


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## Dot Com

You know some real shitty financial shenanigans when people are protesting in israel too  Wealth-gap widening= legalized theft w/ the politicians, a lot of them, standing idly by or, in the case of Repub leadership, actively helping them funnel more $ their way


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## Dot Com

The Repub's most important donors:
Forget about stocks; the ultra-rich turn to art - Business - US business - msnbc.com


> Art used to be known as an "investment of passion"; today for those who can pay, it is a form of haven. Demand for art, watches, rare wines, vintage cars, boats and wine expanded in 2010 as the world's super-rich rebounded from the 2008 financial crisis, according to a report by Capgemini and Merrill Lynch in June. A 300-bottle collection of Chateau Lafite-Rothschild sold at auction earlier this month in Hong Kong for $540,000, the highest value lot achieved at any wine auction in the world during 2011.


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## initforme

Why is the GOP balking Payroll tax cuts?  They are the party of tax cuts correct?   Talk about standing against the hard working middle class american.   Easy to see.


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## Dot Com

These people aren't stupid. They see that Wall St is not producing anything of value yet they are able to take bath's in $100 bills 



> In New York, the protesters are largely educated, organized and their marches are planned, not spontaneous.
> After hundreds of protesters were denied access to some areas outside the New York Stock Exchange on September 17, demonstrators set up a rag-tag camp three blocks away.



I just finished reading Taiibi's book:
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/176128/griftopia-by-matt-taibbi


> Griftopia
> Bubble Machines, Vampire Squids, and the Long Con That Is Breaking America



Before that I read The Big Short by Lewis, a former Solomon Bros trader:
The Big Short - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> It describes several of the key players in the creation of the credit default swap market that sought to bet against the collateralized debt obligation (CDO) bubble and thus ended up profiting from the financial crisis of 2007&#8211;2010. The book also highlights the eccentric nature of the type of person who bets against the market or goes against the grain.


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## initforme

I guess Wall Street is not available for those paying the taxes to maintain it to walk its sidewalks.    Its like its own little world.


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## CaféAuLait

I wonder how many take issue with the fact that Canadians staged, backed and promoted this protest? 




> Vancouver-based activist media group Adbusters organized the protest but failed to attract the throngs some had hoped for. Instead, there are a few hundred people, mostly unemployed youth and college students.



 Reuters: Wall Street now home to protest campground (2011-09-29)


I can't imagine what their reaction would be if a big insurance company decided to arrange a protest in Canada.


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## Katzndogz

Ohhhhhh Wall St. must stink by now!  The street is going to have to be scrubbed with bleach.


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## initforme

Just think how hard the wall street big wigs are laughing...all the way to the bank.    Thats ok they will make the middle class pay.


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## Dot Com

The non-ultra rich in this country are sheeple. BTW- how many here have financial lobbyists in Washington?


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## JStone

Dot Com said:


> The non-ultra rich in this country are sheeple. BTW- how many here have financial lobbyists in Washington?



Stop whining, poor shit.


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## daveman

Dot Com said:


> The non-ultra rich in this country are sheeple. BTW- how many here have financial lobbyists in Washington?



Poor Dot Com.  Those evil nasty greedy rich people greedily refuse to give him any of their stuff, despite the best efforts of a bunch of unwashed people holding signs.

Have they dried drum circles yet?  That's the ultimate in speaking Truth to Power.


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## Dot Com

The wealth gap is as far apart as it was in the 1920's yet Beck, oxyRush, & the guy who wrote a book about his dog (Levin) have you people believing that selling-out U.S. interests for short-term gain is good. When America is completely sold out, those people will simply depart leaving you poor slobs behind holding the bag.


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## JStone

Dot Com said:


> The wealth gap is as far apart as it was in the 1920's yet Beck, oxyRush, & the guy who wrote a book about his dog (Levin) have you people believing that selling-out U.S. interests for short-term gain is good. When America is completely sold out, those people will simply depart leaving you poor slobs behind holding the bag.



Stop whining that you're a poor, lazyass shit.


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## zonly1

CaféAuLait;4209119 said:
			
		

> I wonder how many take issue with the fact that Canadians staged, backed and promoted this protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vancouver-based activist media group Adbusters organized the protest but failed to attract the throngs some had hoped for. Instead, there are a few hundred people, mostly unemployed youth and college students.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reuters: Wall Street now home to protest campground (2011-09-29)
> 
> 
> I can't imagine what their reaction would be if a big insurance company decided to arrange a protest in Canada.
Click to expand...


Protestors want the European socialist plan that's work out so well, but i guess they're missing the bailout crises and the last Fridays big sell off of gold and silver; looking for cash.


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## Sallow

zonly1 said:


> CaféAuLait;4209119 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how many take issue with the fact that Canadians staged, backed and promoted this protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vancouver-based activist media group Adbusters organized the protest but failed to attract the throngs some had hoped for. Instead, there are a few hundred people, mostly unemployed youth and college students.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reuters: Wall Street now home to protest campground (2011-09-29)
> 
> 
> I can't imagine what their reaction would be if a big insurance company decided to arrange a protest in Canada.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Protestors want the European socialist plan that's work out so well, but i guess they're missing the bailout crises and the last Fridays big sell off of gold and silver; looking for cash.
Click to expand...


You do know that the mortgage back security crisis was a world wide scam, dontcha?

And the Greeks were taking out loans to modernize it's military.

Great idea.


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## Unkotare

Liberals like Swallow can't resist a conspiracy theory.


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## editec

Well if nothing else these protestors found the TRUE CAPITAL in which to protest.

WALL STREET proposes, WASHINGTON disposes.


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## daveman

Dot Com said:


> The wealth gap is as far apart as it was in the 1920's yet Beck, oxyRush, & the guy who wrote a book about his dog (Levin) have you people believing that selling-out U.S. interests for short-term gain is good. When America is completely sold out, those people will simply depart leaving you poor slobs behind holding the bag.



Which The Man is keeping you down?

Oh, yeah -- no one.  Your position is life is your fault.  Stop trying to blame other people.


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## Dragon

daveman said:


> Which The Man is keeping *you *down?
> 
> Oh, yeah -- no one.  Your position is life is your fault.  Stop trying to blame other people.



It's not about me -- er -- him. Well, it's not about me, either. It's about US.

When in one decade we find that 5% of the population lives in poverty, and in another decade it's up to 15% or 20%, what's changed is not that people have become lazier.


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## Dot Com

daveman said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wealth gap is as far apart as it was in the 1920's yet Beck, oxyRush, & the guy who wrote a book about his dog (Levin) have you people believing that selling-out U.S. interests for short-term gain is good. When America is completely sold out, those people will simply depart leaving you poor slobs behind holding the bag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which The Man is keeping you down?
> 
> Oh, yeah -- no one.  Your position is life is your fault.  Stop trying to blame other people.
Click to expand...


You failed to address the Depression-era, wealth-gap that is present today friendo.


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## daveman

Dragon said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which The Man is keeping *you *down?
> 
> Oh, yeah -- no one.  Your position is life is your fault.  Stop trying to blame other people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about me -- er -- him. Well, it's not about me, either. It's about US.
> 
> When in one decade we find that 5% of the population lives in poverty, and in another decade it's up to 15% or 20%, what's changed is not that people have become lazier.
Click to expand...

How do you know?  The Greatest Generation had a much stronger wok ethic than young people do today.  

Nevertheless, you're trying to remove personal responsibility from the equation.  Your position in live is the result of your decisions.


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## daveman

Dot Com said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wealth gap is as far apart as it was in the 1920's yet Beck, oxyRush, & the guy who wrote a book about his dog (Levin) have you people believing that selling-out U.S. interests for short-term gain is good. When America is completely sold out, those people will simply depart leaving you poor slobs behind holding the bag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which The Man is keeping you down?
> 
> Oh, yeah -- no one.  Your position is life is your fault.  Stop trying to blame other people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You failed to address the Depression-era, wealth-gap that is present today friendo.
Click to expand...

It's funny how you idiots define "US interests" as "anything that keeps liberals in power".


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## Dragon

daveman said:


> How do you know?  The Greatest Generation had a much stronger wok ethic than young people do today.



No they didn't. That's a myth. And I know it because it doesn't make sense, and also because I know how the rules of the economic game have changed.



> Nevertheless, you're trying to remove personal responsibility from the equation.  Your position in live is the result of your decisions.



I'm not trying to remove personal responsibility from the equation, I'm just trying to keep it in context. Any given set of economic rules of the game will determine how many losers there will be; whether YOU are a loser is indeed the result of your decisions, but HOW MANY losers there will be is not. The harder the rules make it for people to gain a middle-class standard of living, the fewer will succeed in doing that. Yes, those who do succeed will be those who are the best educated, most diligent, least self-destructive, most capable, and most able to defer gratification, but the rules are what determines just how much of these qualities is required for success.

We are currently making it way too hard, and the results are not just unfair but also damaging to the economy. That needs to change.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that today's young people bear a strong resemblance to the "Greatest Generation" in many ways, including their activism. I have seen this and other outbreaks of protest building on the Internet and social media for years; what you are seeing now is like an eruption of mushrooms from a bed that is very broad and deep, and this is only the beginning. Occupy Wall Street isn't an isolated occurrence.


----------



## daveman

Dragon said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?  The Greatest Generation had a much stronger wok ethic than young people do today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't. That's a myth. And I know it because it doesn't make sense, and also because I know how the rules of the economic game have changed.
Click to expand...

It's a myth because you don't want it to be true?



You don't actually know any members of the Greatest Generation, do you?  Obviously not.  



Dragon said:


> Nevertheless, you're trying to remove personal responsibility from the equation.  Your position in live is the result of your decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to remove personal responsibility from the equation, I'm just trying to keep it in context. Any given set of economic rules of the game will determine how many losers there will be; whether YOU are a loser is indeed the result of your decisions, but HOW MANY losers there will be is not. The harder the rules make it for people to gain a middle-class standard of living, the fewer will succeed in doing that. Yes, those who do succeed will be those who are the best educated, most diligent, least self-destructive, most capable, and most able to defer gratification, but the rules are what determines just how much of these qualities is required for success.
> 
> We are currently making it way too hard, and the results are not just unfair but also damaging to the economy. That needs to change.
Click to expand...

You're partly right, but not in the way you think.

The rules make it hard, but it's not the rich people making the rules -- it's the government.  A person who wants to start a small business has the deck stacked against him from the start.  If regulatory and reporting hurdles are removed, more small business would start up, hiring more workers, and improving the economy overall.

Class war bullshit is just that:  Bullshit.


Dragon said:


> EDIT: I forgot to mention that today's young people bear a strong resemblance to the "Greatest Generation" in many ways, including their activism.


Horseshit.  Today's young people are spoiled little whiners.  You're really equating standing in the street and whining with fighting World War 2?  Gimme a break.  


Dragon said:


> I have seen this and other outbreaks of protest building on the Internet and social media for years; what you are seeing now is like an eruption of mushrooms from a bed that is very broad and deep, and this is only the beginning. Occupy Wall Street isn't an isolated occurrence.


It's an empty gesture.  No one's going to change the behavior you disagree with because a bunch of stupid kids with signs were obnoxious in the streets.  

True story.


----------



## Katzndogz

Poverty is a lot more comfortable than it was.  It's very easy to just slip into the comfort zone of poverty.


----------



## RadiomanATL

So, this "protest" was supposed to last one day. The "protestors" didn't get the exposure they had wanted. So basically they're going to stamp their feet, whine like a two year old and say they're not going away until someone pays attention.

That about right?


----------



## percysunshine

*Protesters to remain on Wall St until Monday*

What? They have to go back to work then?

Monday morning quarterbacks: 

Monday morning quarterback - Definition with thesaurus, examples, audio and more.


----------



## Dragon

daveman said:


> You don't actually know any members of the Greatest Generation, do you?  Obviously not.



My two late uncles on my father's side, my aunt on my mother's side, several of my teachers, my old Scoutmaster, a number of professors in college (getting quite old by then). My father was borderline Silent generation, but I knew quite a number of GIs. You're selling today's young people short unfairly.



> You're partly right, but not in the way you think.
> 
> The rules make it hard, but it's not the rich people making the rules -- it's the government.



Of course it's the government, but the government makes it hard because it operates at the behest of corporations. And barriers to starting a small business are not the main part of the picture. In the past, it was quite easy to achieve a middle-class income just by holding down a full-time job. Blue-collar jobs paid in the middle-class range (I know because my father held one of them). The biggest change in government policy as it affects the incomes of most people is the shift in enforcement of labor law, more at the executive level than in actual legislation. That's what has made it tougher for the service jobs that have replaced so many manufacturing jobs to be unionized and keep wages high.

As for starting a small business, while I don't minimize the effects of regulatory barriers (put there mostly at the behest of big business that is allergic to competition), the biggest single hurdle is a lack of capital. The lower wages are, the harder it becomes to save money so as to be able to even TRY to start one's own business.

All things considered, protesting at Wall Street makes a lot of sense, even though the rules of the economic game are set in Washington, because Wall Street pulls Washington's strings. However, as the movement spreads and accelerates, you can be sure Washington won't be neglected.



> Class war bullshit is just that:  Bullshit.



"Class war" is what the rich and their political advocates start screaming when the rest of us fight back. And they're right, insomuch as a one-sided slaughter is not, properly so called, a war.



> Horseshit.  Today's young people are spoiled little whiners.  You're really equating standing in the street and whining with fighting World War 2?  Gimme a break.



Ah, so that's the source of your confusion; like a lot of people your image of the GI generation comes from their brief years of war service. That's a distorted picture. Here is a more typical image of them:

Flint Sit-Down Strike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the generation that joined Communist movements in a larger percentage than any other before or since, that voted overwhelmingly for FDR, and that, later in life, brought us Medicare, the Civil Rights Act, the Great Society, the EPA, and men on the moon. And prior to Pearl Harbor they were the backbone of a peace movement that kept us out of World War II.

As for military service, the troops serving today in Iraq and Afghanistan are just as brave and dedicated and a good deal more competent than the ones that stormed ashore on D-day (not that that was the GIs' fault, our troops are just better trained nowadays). Apples to apples and all that.

What you're seeing and pooh-pooing with derogatory language is only the barest beginning. It will grow. It's already beginning to be taken seriously; note Fox's attempted propaganda smear (if Fox thought it was as pathetic as you seem to believe, they'd be ignoring it).


----------



## Katzndogz

initforme said:


> Why is the GOP balking Payroll tax cuts?  They are the party of tax cuts correct?   Talk about standing against the hard working middle class american.   Easy to see.



Those on paper payroll tax cuts will be made up in additional taxes to the employer who will then cut costs by eliminating jobs or raising prices.  Not to mention payroll tax cuts will just mean increased taxes someplace else on the wage earner.

It's just like the slot machines in an Indian casino.  Play the penny slots you win every time.  Play 45 cents, win three cents.  Play 20 cents, win one cent.  If you are always winning, how come you end up broke?


----------



## percysunshine

I suspect the protesters are slow and furious.


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## driveby

Looks like an angry mob of racists to me....


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## percysunshine

driveby said:


> Looks like an angry mob of racists to me....



A very slow and furious mob.


----------



## Katzndogz

Maybe the answer is to give the protesters what they want.

Shut down Wall Street and the American stock exchanges.  Move everything to China.  Let the homeless move into the empty office buildings.  They can share it with those NYC rats!   Anyone who wants to work in the stock market can move to China too.  They can fill up those empty villages the Chinese have built.  All those people who depended on the Wall St. workers can apply for welfare and funemployment.


----------



## PixieStix

These protestors are just a bunch of college kids that are mad because they got degrees a a mountain of debt to get those degrees and they are not rolling in the dough. In other words they do not want to do what it takes to make it big.

Or maybe they feel like they are doing something for mankind....NOT


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## Toro

I don't have much use for the protesters but ...

There is some truth in what they say.

In February 2009, right in the heart of the crisis, I was at a conference in New York with a couple hundred other investment - i.e. Wall Street - types.  It looked like the end of the world to the delegates.  TARP had been passed a few months earlier, and a moderator at one of the session wanted to gauge investor's opinions.  He asked how many people thought the TARP money should have been used to pay American citizens directly?  No one put their hand up.  He then asked how many people thought the money should be used to bail out the banks?  Almost everyone put their hand up (me included).  Finally, he asked who thought the government shouldn't have done anything?  Again, not a single person raised their hand.

Wall Street has captured government.  Hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars have been used to backstop the financial system, and Wall Street pays itself an enormous amount of money.  People should be pissed off.


----------



## daveman

Dragon said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't actually know any members of the Greatest Generation, do you?  Obviously not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My two late uncles on my father's side, my aunt on my mother's side, several of my teachers, my old Scoutmaster, a number of professors in college (getting quite old by then). My father was borderline Silent generation, but I knew quite a number of GIs. You're selling today's young people short unfairly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're partly right, but not in the way you think.
> 
> The rules make it hard, but it's not the rich people making the rules -- it's the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it's the government, but the government makes it hard because it operates at the behest of corporations. And barriers to starting a small business are not the main part of the picture. In the past, it was quite easy to achieve a middle-class income just by holding down a full-time job. Blue-collar jobs paid in the middle-class range (I know because my father held one of them). The biggest change in government policy as it affects the incomes of most people is the shift in enforcement of labor law, more at the executive level than in actual legislation. That's what has made it tougher for the service jobs that have replaced so many manufacturing jobs to be unionized and keep wages high.
> 
> As for starting a small business, while I don't minimize the effects of regulatory barriers (put there mostly at the behest of big business that is allergic to competition), the biggest single hurdle is a lack of capital. The lower wages are, the harder it becomes to save money so as to be able to even TRY to start one's own business.
> 
> All things considered, protesting at Wall Street makes a lot of sense, even though the rules of the economic game are set in Washington, because Wall Street pulls Washington's strings. However, as the movement spreads and accelerates, you can be sure Washington won't be neglected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Class war bullshit is just that:  Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Class war" is what the rich and their political advocates start screaming when the rest of us fight back. And they're right, insomuch as a one-sided slaughter is not, properly so called, a war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horseshit.  Today's young people are spoiled little whiners.  You're really equating standing in the street and whining with fighting World War 2?  Gimme a break.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so that's the source of your confusion; like a lot of people your image of the GI generation comes from their brief years of war service. That's a distorted picture. Here is a more typical image of them:
> 
> Flint Sit-Down Strike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> This is the generation that joined Communist movements in a larger percentage than any other before or since, that voted overwhelmingly for FDR, and that, later in life, brought us Medicare, the Civil Rights Act, the Great Society, the EPA, and men on the moon. And prior to Pearl Harbor they were the backbone of a peace movement that kept us out of World War II.
> 
> As for military service, the troops serving today in Iraq and Afghanistan are just as brave and dedicated and a good deal more competent than the ones that stormed ashore on D-day (not that that was the GIs' fault, our troops are just better trained nowadays). Apples to apples and all that.
> 
> What you're seeing and pooh-pooing with derogatory language is only the barest beginning. It will grow. It's already beginning to be taken seriously; note Fox's attempted propaganda smear (if Fox thought it was as pathetic as you seem to believe, they'd be ignoring it).
Click to expand...

There is so much utter horse crap in this post all I'm going to do is laugh at you.


----------



## percysunshine

Toro said:


> I don't have much use for the protesters but ...
> 
> There is some truth in what they say.
> 
> In February 2009, right in the heart of the crisis, I was at a conference in New York with a couple hundred other investment - i.e. Wall Street - types.  It looked like the end of the world to the delegates.  TARP had been passed a few months earlier, and a moderator at one of the session wanted to gauge investor's opinions.  He asked how many people thought the TARP money should have been used to pay American citizens directly?  No one put their hand up.  He then asked how many people thought the money should be used to bail out the banks?  Almost everyone put their hand up (me included).  Finally, he asked who thought the government shouldn't have done anything?  Again, not a single person raised their hand.
> 
> Wall Street has captured government.  Hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars have been used to backstop the financial system, and Wall Street pays itself an enormous amount of money.  People should be pissed off.




And they all went to work in the Obama administration.

You left that part out.


----------



## daveman

PixieStix said:


> These protestors are just a bunch of college kids that are mad because they got degrees a a mountain of debt to get those degrees and they are not rolling in the dough. In other words they do not want to do what it takes to make it big.
> 
> Or maybe they feel like they are doing something for mankind....NOT


Their problems are of their own making...I mean, really, who spends in the high five figures to get a degree that doesn't qualify you to do anything but teach that subject?  

Dumb.  

Hey, protesters:  You made your Liberal Arts bed; you lie in it.  Nobody owes you anything.  

Now make sure you get my latte order right.


----------



## Dot Com




----------



## Katzndogz

Not just Wall St. protesters have something against the Brooklyn Bridge too.

Police Arrest About 400 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge - NYTimes.com

the choice of those marchers that led to the swift enforcement.

Protesters who used the Brooklyn Bridge walkway were not arrested, said the head police spokesman, Paul J. Browne. Those who took over the Brooklyn-bound roadway, and impeded vehicle traffic, were arrested.

The mistake was that traffic allowed itself to be impeded.  Roll over one or two and there would be no traffic impediment.


----------



## Dot Com

"...corrupting influence of transient commercial wealth" K. Haakonssen, The Structure of Hume's Political theory.


----------



## JStone

Dot Com said:


> "...corrupting influence of transient commercial wealth" K. Haakonssen, The Structure of Hume's Political theory.



Stop whining, you poor, unsuccessful little shit.


----------



## Dot Com

Looks like the owners of Congress put their foot down and told the police to dispense w/ the rabble/citizenry 

More than 500 arrested in Wall Street protest - Yahoo! News


----------



## daveman

Dot Com said:


> Looks like the owners of Congress put their foot down and told the police to dispense w/ the rabble/citizenry
> 
> More than 500 arrested in Wall Street protest - Yahoo! News


Yes, how awful that the law is enforced.  
Police reopened the Brooklyn Bridge Saturday evening after more than 700 anti-Wall Street protesters were arrested for blocking traffic lanes and attempting an unauthorized march across the span.

The arrests took place when a large group of marchers, participating in a second week of protests by the Occupy Wall Street movement, broke off from others on the bridge's pedestrian walkway and headed across the Brooklyn-bound lanes.
"Over 700 summonses and desk appearance tickets have been issued in connection with a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge late this afternoon after multiple warnings by police were given to protesters to stay on the pedestrian walkway, and that if they took roadway they would be arrested," a police spokesman said.

"Some complied and took the walkway without being arrested. Others proceeded on the Brooklyn-bound vehicular roadway and were. The bridge was re-opened to traffic at 8:05 p.m. (0005 GMT Sunday)."​Dumbass.


----------



## Dragon

daveman said:


> There is so much utter horse crap in this post all I'm going to do is laugh at you.



Then you make it obvious you cannot answer, and make yourself look like a childish, ill-mannered twit. Congratulations.


----------



## Dragon

Dot Com said:


> Looks like the owners of Congress put their foot down and told the police to dispense w/ the rabble/citizenry
> 
> More than 500 arrested in Wall Street protest - Yahoo! News



All part of the game. Getting arrested is a goal of nonviolent civil disobedience. The idea is to make the other side look bad and draw attention to the movement's issues. The arrests won't stop things; they were expected and intended.


----------



## zonly1

Sallow said:


> zonly1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CaféAuLait;4209119 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how many take issue with the fact that Canadians staged, backed and promoted this protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reuters: Wall Street now home to protest campground (2011-09-29)
> 
> 
> I can't imagine what their reaction would be if a big insurance company decided to arrange a protest in Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protestors want the European socialist plan that's work out so well, but i guess they're missing the bailout crises and the last Fridays big sell off of gold and silver; looking for cash.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do know that the mortgage back security crisis was a world wide scam, dontcha?
> 
> And the Greeks were taking out loans to modernize it's military.
> 
> Great idea.
Click to expand...


Look up CRA and who implemented that law to force it onto the banks. 
I'll give you a hint, jimmeh carter and bill clintool.  
The result; the housing bubble.  
Remember the CRA loans were over leveraged loans or high risk loans with poor requirement standards, proof of income etc.
Furthermore, it doesn't help when the fed chair keeps believing in failed Keynesian approach,ie print cheap money.
You know that damn placquer of the CRA is still display in most banks, we'll never learn.


----------



## Dragon

Most of the defaulted mortgages that triggered the financial crisis were for commercial property that CRA, Fannie, and Freddie had nothing to do with.


----------



## initforme

How can any hard working american defend wall street and how they operate?   I sure cant.   I dont care what the protestors do they arent going to help anything.     It may be the best system out there but it surely is very very corrupt and nobody can ever argue this point.


----------



## zonly1

Dragon said:


> Most of the defaulted mortgages that triggered the financial crisis were for commercial property that CRA, Fannie, and Freddie had nothing to do with.



Right and Keynesian economics works.


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Hard work CAN overcome. I know someone who didn't come from a lot of money, and while others were sitting on their asses, or partying on the weekends, he was working his ass off. Put up with 2 hour commutes, put up with hard manual labor during school, and yes took a career or two that panned out. Paid his way through college, earned a MBA and is now part of the top 5% or so. You want to want a lot of *earnings[/B? Go get it.

Nobody said it was easy to earn a lot of money-and nobody said it was a guarantee. But the truth is this: it takes hard work AND smart work. I once heard, and I've always found this to be true, and great advice:

hard work is smart
smart work is hard

edit: and while I don't agree with the OWS, they have every right to exercise their constitutional rights.*


----------



## Dot Com

Dot Com said:


> Those people on Wall St don't "make" anything. They make their money oftentimes "shorting" people like Goldmann did.
> Protesters invade NYC Financial District - US news - Life - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> Demonstrators gathered in parks and plazas in Lower Manhattan and said they were determined to stay at least through the weekend so they could confront Wall Street workers on Monday morning.protest of what they said was corporate greed favoring the rich at the expense of ordinary people.
> "It's a worthy cause because people on Wall Street are blood-sucking warmongers," Bill Steyerd, 68, a Vietnam veteran from Queens, told the New York Daily News. "I'm here, and in spite of these dinky barricades, we're going to shut down Wall Street with people power."
Click to expand...


Exhibit # 2187:

Hedge fund exec gets 11 yrs, his crimes 'a virus' - WSJ.com


> "In this environment where there's a palpable public antipathy to Wall Street, many people expected a sentence that was going to be closer to what prosecutors were seeking than what the defense was asking for," he added.


----------



## Dragon

zonly1 said:


> Right and Keynesian economics works.



That's also true. It gave us an economy that outperformed anything organized on a different basis for four decades. In my book, that constitutes "working."


----------



## Dragon

JamesInFlorida said:


> Hard work CAN overcome.



Of course it can. The question is: How high do you want to set the bar?

It takes much _harder_ work now to overcome than it did when I was a boy, and any given level of hard work isn't rewarded nearly as well (unless you're already rich).

Is that really the kind of America we want?


----------



## JamesInFlorida

Dragon said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hard work CAN overcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it can. The question is: How high do you want to set the bar?
> 
> It takes much _harder_ work now to overcome than it did when I was a boy, and any given level of hard work isn't rewarded nearly as well (unless you're already rich).
> 
> Is that really the kind of America we want?
Click to expand...


Oh please that logic is "I want to work hard....but not THAT hard". I guarantee you for everyone who subscribes to that-there's someone else waiting in the wings. 

I know someone who lived in a house that was (literally) falling away from the other half. He would commute 2 hours (each way) to work every single day, and earned his MBA. All this just to give himself the opportunity to advance. He would go clamming in the ocean during college on the weekends to pay his way through, while others were slacking off. 

Long story short: 13 years ago he started to become very successful. He's now a part of the 1% that people love to demonize. And people who don't know how much he busted his ass make snide remarks as if something was given to him, just because they see him drive a nice car, or something. Or want him to "pay his fair share" (when he pays more in taxes than most of them do in a year). Or think he acted unethically to get to where he is.

My point is this: get to know somebody who's made it big (if you can), and try to pick their brains a little. See how they got to where they are. It's easy to demonize people who you seemingly can't relate to right off the bat. When you witness first hand what goes into becoming that successful, your thoughts about those people just may change a little bit.


----------

