# Should Wild Pets Be Banned?



## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

We have one of the most active Humane Societies in the nation here in Ohio.  A proposed bill the OHS drafted has been tendered to the governor following the mauling death of a local man, Brent Kandra, by a pet bear.  Brent Kandra was on Mazzola's property doing work when he was killed.  Mazzola had previously been stripped of his Federal license to exhibit wild animals and had a history of legal problems concerning his animals or attempts to acquire more.  Truely, a horrifying case.

Elyria man dies after being mauled by showman's pet bear | cleveland.com

There are so many instances of such deaths (normally though, it is the animal's owner who is killed, not a guest) that the Animal Planet Channel has built a reality tv show on the topic called "Fatal Attractions".   

Note: this video is very disturbing.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NECsA-AvnmA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NECsA-AvnmA[/ame]

The show is so graphic a paper no less jaded than the NY Post called it "extreme".  The Animal Planet Channel defended the show, claiming the number of people who own venomous snakes, constrictors, big cats and chimps or apes, etc. has exploded in the past 20 years and the trend shows no sign of slowing.  APC says the purpose of the show is to explore the motives people have for owning such animals as pets.

What do you say?  Is this a symptom of a new mental illnesses?  Should wild animal ownership by private persons be illegal?

Reality TV's new extreme programming - 'Fatal Attractions,' 'Prison Wives' - signals end of an era


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## Sheldon (Oct 7, 2010)

I always wanted a chimp as a pet. He could ride around town in the passenger seat and I could teach him how to flip pedestrians off. It would be like having an even more immature little brother.


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## The Infidel (Oct 7, 2010)

silkyeggsalad said:


> I always wanted a chimp as a pet. He could ride around town in the passenger seat and I could teach him how to flip pedestrians off. It would be like having an even more immature little brother.


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## strollingbones (Oct 7, 2010)

i have been bitten by a monkey  ...a small one...but it inflicted a lot of harm in a little time...a friend of mine was attacked by a chimp.....bad bite to the hand...another friend worked with chimps in florida and has the scars to prove it...

i love my cats...but they are small and cannot do much damage...if they were large they would

bears are strong predators...simple as that...


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

silkyeggsalad said:


> I always wanted a chimp as a pet. He could ride around town in the passenger seat and I could teach him how to flip pedestrians off. It would be like having an even more immature little brother.



Chimps are quite capable of killing an adult human, silky. I hope you rethink this.

Chimp attack victim Charla Nash discharged from Cleveland Clinic | cleveland.com


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## syrenn (Oct 7, 2010)

silkyeggsalad said:


> I always wanted a chimp as a pet. He could ride around town in the passenger seat and I could teach him how to flip pedestrians off. It would be like having an even more immature little brother.




911 tape captures chimpanzee owner&#39;s horror as 200-pound ape mauls friend


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> i have been bitten by a monkey  ...a small one...but it inflicted a lot of harm in a little time...a friend of mine was attacked by a chimp.....bad bite to the hand...another friend worked with chimps in florida and has the scars to prove it...
> 
> i love my cats...but they are small and cannot do much damage...if they were large they would
> 
> bears are strong predators...simple as that...



So bones, do you think people who own such creatures are mentally ill?  Do we need a new law outlawing them as pets?


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## strollingbones (Oct 7, 2010)

no i dont think they are mentally ill....my friends mother trained chimps....so of course he got to join the family business....chimps are powerful animals....and not docile...

i think most people who try to own a wild animal have major egos...and that is the problem....we all do stupid things....

me:  we are in the smokies when a bear ambles up to the car...i got blueberry muffins and begin to feed the bear thru the side window....when da man ...goes..what the fuck are you gonna do when you run outta muffins.....oooooooo mal....good point....


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## syrenn (Oct 7, 2010)

I don't think people who own wild animals are mentally ill. I think they are recklessly stupid. I think that they have vanity issues. 

Animals are animals. Even domesticated pets can turn on people and kill. Dogs and cats are only 6 months from feral. I don't understand why people think wild animals are tame.


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## zzzz (Oct 7, 2010)

I think it is a control issue with the people who desire to own wild animals. 

I think it should be illegal to own wild animals no matter the threat. If you want a pet get a cat or dog, domesticated animals and leave the wild animals alone!


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

I have a BFF who once owned a dozen adult venomous and constrictor type snakes....and she had small kidlets in the house.  She was careful, nothing happened, and we don't talk about it.  I know her "dangerous snake" license has expired and in Florida, it's not likely she can get another one...but the desire seems to have passed.

When she owned these snakes, she had a very dark personal life, and I wonder if having a pet capable of killing a human feeds some need to feel powerful when you otherwise don't.   (She had an evil fucktard dealing misery to her and her kids at the time.)  I suspect this need could rise to the level of a mental illness, though my BFF just moved heaven and earth to straighten her life out, and is very happy today.

I suppose it could also be akin to these extreme sports some people like -- addicted to the danger, etc.  If you ask me, no good is served by allowing this to continue and I say HELL YES, outlaw wild pets.  That would include wolves, for all the wolfdog enthusiasts reading this thread.


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## strollingbones (Oct 7, 2010)

hmmm what about orphan wild animals....fawns are hard to raise now due to all the new regulations...raccoons are still taken in....i have always wanted a crow....they make excellent pets if you get the when they are very young....problem...i dont climb and its hard to convince someone to climb and steal the chick when the momma crow is trying to peck your eyes out....rural areas you just never know who is keeping what for a pet...

fucking wildlife officiers are in between a rock and a hard place...if you raise a fawn from the wild..they must come and take it and kill it...makes for great public relations....but its to prevent the spread of the bleeding disease


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## strollingbones (Oct 7, 2010)

true story:  in my younger (much younger) dazes....i use to date a snake handler from sc...he made his living hunting snakes and milking them for their venom.  above his bed was a large piece of driftwood and cargo netting suspended from the ceiling...decore' he said....sooooo one night i wake up in the middle of the night...he is laying on his back smoking a ciggie.....he is looking up....so i snuggle up and look up...he has put a snake in the cargo netting over the bed...and is watching the snake to relax...honey hush....i got my clothes on....laid my key on the night stand and said good bye.


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## Sheldon (Oct 7, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> true story:  in my younger (much younger) dazes....i use to date a snake handler from sc...he made his living hunting snakes and milking them for their venom.  above his bed was a large piece of driftwood and cargo netting suspended from the ceiling...decore' he said....sooooo one night i wake up in the middle of the night...he is laying on his back smoking a ciggie.....he is looking up....so i snuggle up and look up...he has put a snake in the cargo netting over the bed...and is watching the snake to relax...honey hush....i got my clothes on....laid my key on the night stand and said good bye.





I fucking hate snakes.


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## strollingbones (Oct 7, 2010)

no mal...and the guy was a really decent man...but that snake thing....i was willing to accept that was his business....but to bring them inside...


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## Sheldon (Oct 7, 2010)

And what if the snake fell through a hole in the netting and lands right on the bed. I'd hop out of that shit so quick, and hit it with a lamp or something. 

Things are nasty. Just the way they move and they way they look. Evil.


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## strollingbones (Oct 7, 2010)

yea the falling on the bed was my fear....but apparently he had done this the whole time....i shudder to think of it....


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> hmmm what about orphan wild animals....fawns are hard to raise now due to all the new regulations...raccoons are still taken in....i have always wanted a crow....they make excellent pets if you get the when they are very young....problem...i dont climb and its hard to convince someone to climb and steal the chick when the momma crow is trying to peck your eyes out....rural areas you just never know who is keeping what for a pet...
> 
> fucking wildlife officiers are in between a rock and a hard place...if you raise a fawn from the wild..they must come and take it and kill it...makes for great public relations....but its to prevent the spread of the bleeding disease



Lots of tear jerkers along these lines, bones. I never understood why these movies were considered suitable for kids.  I am still traumatized by some of them.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPQNQlMvrEs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPQNQlMvrEs[/ame]


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> true story:  in my younger (much younger) dazes....i use to date a snake handler from sc...he made his living hunting snakes and milking them for their venom.  above his bed was a large piece of driftwood and cargo netting suspended from the ceiling...decore' he said....sooooo one night i wake up in the middle of the night...he is laying on his back smoking a ciggie.....he is looking up....so i snuggle up and look up...he has put a snake in the cargo netting over the bed...and is watching the snake to relax...honey hush....i got my clothes on....laid my key on the night stand and said good bye.


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## syrenn (Oct 7, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2egfIrXJMM&feature=related[/ame]


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

That surgery was done here at the Cleveland Clinic, syrenn.  We Clevelanders are very proud of this lady and her doctors and nurses.


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## Sallow (Oct 7, 2010)

The rule of thumb for me is to never keep an animal around you can't completely and utterly physically dominate. Even domesticated animals try to assert dominance.

But for me..animals that have sought human companionship, like dogs and cats..make the best pets.


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

So would you favor a law outlawing wild pets, Sallow?  I keep hoping a Libertarian will post to this thread.


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## Ringel05 (Oct 7, 2010)

*Should Wild Pets Be Banned?*

Oh hell no!  Where would some of you ladies go??!! 
(In the same vein you ladies should be asking about some of the guys!!!!)


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## Zoom-boing (Oct 7, 2010)

I didn't read the OP or any other posts, just the title (I am assuming you mean wild animals as pets).  

My answer is a loud and resounding HELL YES!


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## Sallow (Oct 7, 2010)

Madeline said:


> So would you favor a law outlawing wild pets, Sallow?  I keep hoping a Libertarian will post to this thread.



Well yeah..of course.

Libertarian doesn't mean crazy. Or maybe it does..


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## Zoom-boing (Oct 7, 2010)

I wouldn't have any problem if they banned wild animals as pets.


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

All y'all are so reasonable about this......where's Quantum Windbag?  I bet he'd object.


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## syrenn (Oct 7, 2010)

Madeline said:


> All y'all are so reasonable about this......where's Quantum Windbag?  I bet he'd object.




He may not be that bat shit crazy    just your average run of the mill nut case!


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

syrenn said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > All y'all are so reasonable about this......where's Quantum Windbag?  I bet he'd object.
> ...



He's my good buddy, syrenn...but he's radical, that's for sure.  Plus he's wicked fun to argue with.


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## syrenn (Oct 7, 2010)

Madeline said:


> syrenn said:
> 
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> > Madeline said:
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Well round him up and lets see just how crazy he is


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## fyrenza (Oct 7, 2010)

I've "owned" wild animals ~

a cottontail rabbit that our hound brought to me to take care of;

rhesus monkeys;

birds;

etc.

They need to be wild.

As much as we could care about and love them,

they weren't meant to be owned, any more than other HUMANS were meant to be owned by us.

It hurts THEM, and forces them to hurt us,

through No Fault of THEIR OWN.

Since they can't communicate with us, it has to be THEIR choice to associate with us,

and it HAS to be on their terms.


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## MikeK (Oct 7, 2010)

Madeline said:


> What do you say?  Is this a symptom of a new mental illnesses?  Should wild animal ownership by private persons be illegal?


I don't think it's a mental illness so much as increasing alienation within the human species as the result of encroaching technology and the extreme complications of an increasingly bureaucratic social order.  Humans are turning to these wild creatures for the kind of trust and honest love which they cannot experience with other humans.  

This craving cannot be satisfied by ownership of traditional pets, e.g., cats and dogs,  because these genetically subjugated creatures are totally dependent and the affection they display is largely submissive and obsequious.  But a loving relationship with an animal who is easily capable of killing is purely exotic, exciting and enormously gratifying.

I believe the key to a viable relationship with a wild animal is suitable habitat and bonding from the time of the animal's birth, or very close to that.  The animal cannot feel trapped or tormented, such as are those "performing" animals that turn on their trainers.  (What do they expect?)  If you were to adopt an African lion, a Siberian tiger or a grizzly bear cub, treat it with respect and affection, feed it well and provide it with a comfortable habitat, I don't believe it would ever harm you.  (If I were wealthy I would keep a pet tiger.)  

There is a problem with the human ego in that it tends to impose itself on others, even those it loves.  We get away with it with other humans because they understand our aberrations.   Wild animals don't.  Piss them off and they will do what comes naturally.


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

I'm not convinced a wild creature will bond with a human, MikeK, but even if it does, I don't see how that alters the risk, especially after the animal is grown.  The rest of what you wrote, yes, that's true.

Interesting article about dogs and our human mistake in interpreting their behavior as if they had human emotions....

Assigning human emotions to a canine is wagging the wrong tail: Ask Dog Lady | cleveland.com


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 7, 2010)

syrenn said:


> Madeline said:
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> > syrenn said:
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You forgot to mention that I am always right.


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## syrenn (Oct 7, 2010)

Quantum Windbag said:


> syrenn said:
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> > Madeline said:
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That all depends, if you are agreeing with me then your assertion is correct.  

And your opinion on this subject is ?


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## MikeK (Oct 7, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> i have been bitten by a monkey  ...a small one...but it inflicted a lot of harm in a little time...a friend of mine was attacked by a chimp.....bad bite to the hand...another friend worked with chimps in florida and has the scars to prove it...


I was bitten, too, by a spider monkey.  But it was my own fault.  Keeping those creatures in cages is simply cruel but I was too young and stupid to realize that at the time.  I stuck my finger in the cage and the little bugger let me know how he felt about humans.



> i love my cats...but they are small and cannot do much damage...if they were large they would.


Do you think they would do damage to you, or just to the furniture?  



> bears are strong predators...simple as that...


So are humans.  The strongest.


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

Quantum Windbag said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
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Yes you are, but dear, we agree (in some form or fashion) 99% of the time, so it is also true that I am (nearly) always right.   You have caught me in error more'n once, that's true.  I do believe I have nailed you too, if less often.

All in all, you're one of the funnest people to debate with.


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## Madeline (Oct 7, 2010)

MikeK said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > i have been bitten by a monkey  ...a small one...but it inflicted a lot of harm in a little time...a friend of mine was attacked by a chimp.....bad bite to the hand...another friend worked with chimps in florida and has the scars to prove it...
> ...



One of the saddest sides to the Brent Kandra story is how hard the neighbors etc. tried to get rid of that bear (not kill it; just move into the hands of a zoo or whatnot where humans would be safe).  They just could not get it accomplished, legally.

If you ask me, that owner should have been brought up on some sort of homicide charge.  The death of Brent Kandra was predictable, even inevitable...just no one knew who or when.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 7, 2010)

Madeline said:


> We have one of the most active Humane Societies in the nation here in Ohio.  A proposed bill the OHS drafted has been tendered to the governor following the mauling death of a local man, Brent Kandra, by a pet bear.  Brent Kandra was on Mazzola's property doing work when he was killed.  Mazzola had previously been stripped of his Federal license to exhibit wild animals and had a history of legal problems concerning his animals or attempts to acquire more.  Truely, a horrifying case.
> 
> Elyria man dies after being mauled by showman's pet bear | cleveland.com
> 
> ...



What is the problem?

If someone wants to own a T-Rex let them, just as long as they are able to keep it away from their neighbors using a 50 foot high, 10,000 volt fence.

The truth is that humans have been keeping wild animals for millennium. Royalty used to have menageries that included the big cats, and bear baiting was a common sport in the middle ages. Do you really think dogs and cats decided to move in with us when they say how good we were at farming?


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## syrenn (Oct 8, 2010)

Quantum Windbag said:


> What is the problem?
> 
> If someone wants to own a T-Rex let them, just as long as they are able to keep it away from their neighbors using a 50 foot high, 10,000 volt fence.
> 
> The truth is that humans have been keeping wild animals for millennium. Royalty used to have menageries that included the big cats, and bear baiting was a common sport in the middle ages. Do you really think dogs and cats decided to move in with us when they say how good we were at farming?




Part of the problem is when these "pet" owners are no longer able to keep and or control their pets. Most will just let them go. This kind of thing is a HUGE problem with "pet" snakes in Florida.


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## hjmick (Oct 8, 2010)

Isn't "wild pets" an oxymoron?


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## MikeK (Oct 8, 2010)

silkyeggsalad said:


> I always wanted a chimp as a pet. He could ride around town in the passenger seat and I could teach him how to flip pedestrians off. It would be like having an even more immature little brother.


While I enjoy watching all other species of monkey, and I kind of like Orangs, I strongly dislike Chimps and I fear them.  I believe it's a primal thing because of our genetic proximity to them.


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## uscitizen (Oct 8, 2010)

Should Wild Pets Be Banned?

Yes ODonnel should not be in government.


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## MikeK (Oct 8, 2010)

silkyeggsalad said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > true story:  in my younger (much younger) dazes....i use to date a snake handler from sc...he made his living hunting snakes and milking them for their venom.  above his bed was a large piece of driftwood and cargo netting suspended from the ceiling...decore' he said....sooooo one night i wake up in the middle of the night...he is laying on his back smoking a ciggie.....he is looking up....so i snuggle up and look up...he has put a snake in the cargo netting over the bed...and is watching the snake to relax...honey hush....i got my clothes on....laid my key on the night stand and said good bye.
> ...


I can't understand why any human would want to be anywhere near a snake.  Yet some people seem to really like them.  They are repulsive to me.


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## uscitizen (Oct 8, 2010)

Snakes don't even taste good.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 8, 2010)

syrenn said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > What is the problem?
> ...



I have had to chase snakes and scorpions out of my yard when I was growing up, and some people in El Paso have had the pets killed by coyotes, or mountain lions. the wild animals are going to be there whether epople keep them as pets or not, the smart thing to do is learn how to deal with them. That way you do not have cops killing a fawn because it got into a neighborhood.


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 8, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Snakes don't even taste good.



Thy are actually quite good in chili.


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## MikeK (Oct 8, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> [...]but its to prevent the spread of the bleeding disease


What is the bleeding sickness?


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## Madeline (Oct 8, 2010)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > We have one of the most active Humane Societies in the nation here in Ohio.  A proposed bill the OHS drafted has been tendered to the governor following the mauling death of a local man, Brent Kandra, by a pet bear.  Brent Kandra was on Mazzola's property doing work when he was killed.  Mazzola had previously been stripped of his Federal license to exhibit wild animals and had a history of legal problems concerning his animals or attempts to acquire more.  Truely, a horrifying case.
> ...



Cats are a different kettle of fish, but dogs we have manipulated so damned much who knows what the original dogs were like.  I think if I assaulted Nosmo King, his little poodle would die trying to fend me off and protect her master.  But I could slap the snot out of you and that big orange bathmat you call a cat would just snooze.  Cats are affectionate and all, but seem to feel something entirely different for their humans than dogs do.

Do you honestly think outlawing wild pets is a bad thing?  And if so, do you agree with me that the bear's owner in the Op story should have been charged with a homicide?


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## Quantum Windbag (Oct 8, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



If it makes a bunch of idiots feel safe it will happen, and people will ignore it. Does that make sense to anyone besides someone who thinks that regulations and laws change people's behavior?

As for the guy in the OP, I didn't read the article, so have no way to answer your question. I am only here because someone thought I would be fun to argue with, but I only argue about things I care about, or to mock some idiots. Neither applies here.


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## Ringel05 (Oct 8, 2010)




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## Si modo (Oct 8, 2010)

Is anyone really surprised that the lunatic in the OP wants a nanny law?  I know I'm not.


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## Madeline (Oct 8, 2010)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Madeline said:
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> > Quantum Windbag said:
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Fair enough.  I shall endeavor to better amuse you in the future.

Peace out, brotherman.


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## fyrenza (Oct 8, 2010)

MikeK said:


> I can't understand why any human would want to be anywhere near a snake.  Yet some people seem to really like them.  They are repulsive to me.



They're only attracted to us for our heat.

I've actually walked up on rattlers, and they run away from me.

I'm too big, and THEY'RE afraid of me.

Let me lie down?  They just want to snuggle me up, for my heat.

They mean me no harm, and if I sort of push them off?

They slink off.

Study animals, and their motivations.

If they can't EAT you?  They probably don't have any use for you, so you don't have much to fear, unless you threaten their very LIVES.

They're nice, like that, to us.

UNLIKE how WE are, to them...

When we get scared?  WE ARE KILLERS.  No thought, no compassion, no being MORE than just us.

IF we think they could harm us?

We go into KILL mode.

How the fuck do you think TPTB could play us, the way they most assuredly HAVE,

without knowing that?

It's "A Sad Day In Mudville," folks...


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## Ringel05 (Oct 8, 2010)

I don't study snakes.  I spent about a third of my life in the orient, all snakes there are deadly and you kill them before they kill you.  I carry that sentiment with me no matter where I am, I don't do snakes.


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## Madeline (Oct 8, 2010)

I have no snake phobia but their appeal escapes me.  But then, so does the idea of owning a grizzly as a pet.

*Color me rational*


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## MikeK (Oct 8, 2010)

Madeline said:


> I have no snake phobia but their appeal escapes me.  But then, so does the idea of owning a grizzly as a pet.
> 
> *Color me rational*


I wouldn't want a bear as a pet because they are too big and smelly.  But I think the white tigers I've seen on a documentary are magnificently beautiful animals and they appear to be absolutely tame.  They were raised from birth by humans and have been living with humans for years with absolutely no problems, clearly because of the comfortable condition of their lives.  

They aren't forced to do anything they don't want to do and that seems to be the key to keeping them tame.  Their veterinary needs are attended to after they are made unconscious by a drug in their food, so they sleep through all imposed unpleasantness.  

This documentary is shown at least once a year on the Animal Planet tv program.


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## Claudette (Oct 12, 2010)

zzzz said:


> I think it is a control issue with the people who desire to own wild animals.
> 
> I think it should be illegal to own wild animals no matter the threat. If you want a pet get a cat or dog, domesticated animals and leave the wild animals alone!




Totally agree.

A wild animal is just that. "A wild animal." It may be cute and cuddley when its young but its going to grow up some day and then the cute and cuddly comes to an end. 

A tiger, bear, lion, wolf, coyote, fox, chimp, monkey or any other Wild animal has the capacity to inflict deadly harm on a human. 

These are wild animals and they belong in the wild. Not in someones house, apartment or back yard. 

Common sense folks. Apparantly there are all kinds out there without a lick of it. Jeeze.


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## Madeline (Oct 12, 2010)

MikeK said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > I have no snake phobia but their appeal escapes me.  But then, so does the idea of owning a grizzly as a pet.
> ...



Ya, but "tame" is relative.  The duo Seigfried and Roy a had a tragedy a few years ago when a tiger attacked -- Roy barely survived.

Roy, of 'Siegfried and Roy', attacked by tiger - CNN


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