# Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



## American_Jihad

*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
October 24, 2012 
By David Solway

---

For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.

For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.

Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay


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## Lipush




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## Jos

But not in it's present form


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## irosie91

jos is playing     "thump on ape chest ----gutter thug"      again


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## Lipush

Jos said:


> But not in it's present form



Untill all Jews will go back to their homeland in which the Arabs expelled them from. Next year in Jerusalem!


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## uscitizen

God allowed Israel to fall many times in history.  History is not over yet.


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## irosie91

uscitizen said:


> God allowed Israel to fall many times in history.  History is not over yet.



Why are you blaming  "GOD"      Read the bible----the theme of the entire  book of Genesis is the fact of   MAN'S FREE WILL       Your "theory" supports silly concepts like
   "GOD CREATED YOUR HERO ADOLF HITLER"


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## Desperado

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​




Not according to Henry Kissinger

In 10 years, there will be no more Israel: Kissinger

Davids Sling; Is It Broken?

Cindy Adams from the New York Post insisted: Reported to me, Henry Kissinger has stated - and I quote the statement word for word: In 10 years, there will be no more Israel


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## Lipush

It was said 50 years ago that there will be no Israel few years tops. so?

Israel exist and will exist forever!


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## GHook93

uscitizen said:


> God allowed Israel to fall many times in history.  History is not over yet.



According to you, your history was supposed to be over a while back, but once again you are still annoying everyone with your existence!


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## TakeAStepBack

Who cares?


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## Lipush

TakeAStepBack said:


> Who cares?



Obviously YOU do, since you took the time to read and respond


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## TakeAStepBack

I have no vested interest in Israel. Stay, go, fuck off. It means less than nothing to me. I just see a lot of "Yay! Israel!!" threads around here. So ask, who cares?


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## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> It was said 50 years ago that there will be no Israel few years tops. so?
> 
> Israel exist and will exist forever!



Israel is facing more serious challenges today than it ever has.


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## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was said 50 years ago that there will be no Israel few years tops. so?
> 
> Israel exist and will exist forever!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is facing more serious challenges today than it ever has.
Click to expand...


what else is new?     so is the WHOLE WORLD


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## toastman

TakeAStepBack said:


> Who cares?



Sherri, is that you?


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## MJB12741

For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.  

And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.


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## Roudy

Jos said:


> But not in it's present form


At the time Jos was born, the flush wasn't working.


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## Jos

MJB12741 said:


> For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.
> 
> And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.



Er wake up call, Israel is less than 70 years old


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## American_Jihad

uscitizen said:


> God allowed Israel to fall many times in history.  History is not over yet.



http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/232672-koran-says-land-belongs-to-israel.html


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## American_Jihad

Desperado said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to Henry Kissinger
> 
> In 10 years, there will be no more Israel: Kissinger
> 
> Davids Sling; Is It Broken?
> 
> Cindy Adams from the New York Post insisted: Reported to me, Henry Kissinger has stated - and I quote the statement word for word: In 10 years, there will be no more Israel
Click to expand...








It's also a radical islamic fairytale...

Verse 16 identifies the place of the final battle as Armageddon, from the Hebrew Har Megiddon (the Hill of Megiddo). The hill country of Megiddo and the adjacent valley of Esdraelon have been the site of many important battles (Judge 5:15; 2 Kings 9:27; 23:29).

Bible - Revelation chapter 16 explained in detail


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## ForeverYoung436

Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.
> 
> And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Er wake up call, Israel is less than 70 years old
Click to expand...


Israel is often used interchangeably with the Jewish people in conversation.


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## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.
> 
> And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Er wake up call, Israel is less than 70 years old
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is often used interchangeably with the Jewish people in conversation.
Click to expand...


Only by those who conflate the two so that they can play the anti Semite card.


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## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Er wake up call, Israel is less than 70 years old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is often used interchangeably with the Jewish people in conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only by those who conflate the two so that they can play the anti Semite card.
Click to expand...



Not true at all-----thruout jewish literature for THOUSANDS OF YEARS-----the term   ISRAEL    or   CHILDREN OF ISRAEL    is used to describe the jewish people ----even more than is   the word  "JEWS"   (yehudim)      On official papers and captions   ---etc etc      the much used word is   "ISRAEL"       sometimes  "HOUSE OF ISRAEL"   bet yisrael"       How did you get so utterly ignorant   Tinnie  ?        your posts suggest you never read much in your life other than islamo nazi pig propaganda


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## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is often used interchangeably with the Jewish people in conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only by those who conflate the two so that they can play the anti Semite card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all-----thruout jewish literature for THOUSANDS OF YEARS-----the term   ISRAEL    or   CHILDREN OF ISRAEL    is used to describe the jewish people ----even more than is   the word  "JEWS"   (yehudim)      On official papers and captions   ---etc etc      the much used word is   "ISRAEL"       sometimes  "HOUSE OF ISRAEL"   bet yisrael"       How did you get so utterly ignorant   Tinnie  ?        your posts suggest you never read much in your life other than islamo nazi pig propaganda
Click to expand...


Israel is a nation of people not a piece of land.


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## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only by those who conflate the two so that they can play the anti Semite card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all-----thruout jewish literature for THOUSANDS OF YEARS-----the term   ISRAEL    or   CHILDREN OF ISRAEL    is used to describe the jewish people ----even more than is   the word  "JEWS"   (yehudim)      On official papers and captions   ---etc etc      the much used word is   "ISRAEL"       sometimes  "HOUSE OF ISRAEL"   bet yisrael"       How did you get so utterly ignorant   Tinnie  ?        your posts suggest you never read much in your life other than islamo nazi pig propaganda
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a nation of people not a piece of land.
Click to expand...


Israel is a nation of people who were dispossessed of that which  THE NATION considers  "holy land"     and has do considered it for more than 3000 years     The land to which you refer had been a place to which to "return"  during all that time     For someone who makes an issue of WHO LIVED WHERE for a few years        as being the ETERNAL OWNERS      you have a very trivializing approach to land which jews consider "holy"      If someone invaded  arabia and dispossessed the plave of all muslims-----and muslims had an ambition to  RETURN to that land "holy" to them ------would you say    "YOU ARE A NATION--NOT A PIECE OF LAND YOU NAZI DOGS"?

Another issue---of course is the fact of  oppression in christian and muslim lands     While you may like the idea of laws rendering jewish orphans the sex slave of the local imam-----my mother-in-law came out of that experience   "never wanting to see another muslim again"         maybe she was just overly touchy--------may you and yours be on the receiving end of those laws you so cherish----or comparable ones

   I do hope that the Hindus retain control of the Ganges River---and Benares----it is important to them      Unlike you ---I am content to leave mecca to the muslims and not spit in their faces and say  "ARE YOU A PIECE OF LAND"???


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## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was said 50 years ago that there will be no Israel few years tops. so?
> 
> Israel exist and will exist forever!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is facing more serious challenges today than it ever has.
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utn7qOQyvfA&feature=related]BDS boycott divestment sanctions against Israel - YouTube[/ame]


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## irosie91

boycott of Israel is nothing new-----in fact it has done quite a bit of good     Israel survived the  COMPREHENSIVE BOYCOTT----enacted by muslims world wide of  ALL BUSINESSES HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL -----which started way back in the  50s        It did so with a very creative method of subsidizing   food production       so successful that it is now a model for public health people world wide

another good outcome------it created a hunger in the mind of muslim women world wide ------for Israeli products


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## georgephillip

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay


Does Israel have borders?
If so, what is its eastern boundary?


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## American_Jihad

georgephillip said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
Click to expand...


History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps


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## toastman

American_Jihad said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
Click to expand...


Great and basic info on that website. Thanks for sharing


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## eots

Jos said:


> But not in it's present form



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxz9zJg88I]Palestinian population boom worries Israel - YouTube[/ame]


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## georgephillip

American_Jihad said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
Click to expand...

"Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements.  The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy!  And of course, Israel still 'occupies' the West Bank with its  ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND 'Palestinian'  Arabs.  

"Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these  hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel!  But by remaining an 'occupier,' Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!"

*So what is the current eastern border claimed by your vicious occupiers?*

History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps


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## irosie91

There is a border dispute  between that which was JORDAN  pre  1967   and Israel     However JORDAN has repudiated the area ------and now the dispute is between Israel and some of the people residing in on that land who have----essentially declared themselves independent of Jordan       Try to keep up-----it is not all that complicated


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## American_Jihad

georgephillip said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements.  The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy!  And of course, Israel still 'occupies' the West Bank with its  ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND 'Palestinian'  Arabs.
> 
> "Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these  hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel!  But by remaining an 'occupier,' Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!"
> 
> *So what is the current eastern border claimed by your vicious occupiers?*
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
Click to expand...


http://www.promisedlandblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/modernisrael21.jpg

http://www.google.com/


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## georgephillip

American_Jihad said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements.  The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy!  And of course, Israel still 'occupies' the West Bank with its  ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND 'Palestinian'  Arabs.
> 
> "Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these  hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel!  But by remaining an 'occupier,' Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!"
> 
> *So what is the current eastern border claimed by your vicious occupiers?*
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://www.promisedlandblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/modernisrael21.jpg
> 
> Google
Click to expand...

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
Click to expand...

Zion doesn't need borders.


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## georgephillip

*Did you hear that from a Jebusite?*

"The etymology of the word Zion (&#7779;iyôn) is uncertain.[1][2][4] Mentioned in the Bible in the Book of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:7) as the name of the Jebusite fortress conquered by King David, its origin *likely predates the Israelites.*[1][2] 

"If Semitic, it may be derived from the Hebrew root '&#7779;iyyôn ('castle') or the Hebrew &#7779;iyya ('dry land,' Jeremiah 51:43). A non-Semitic relationship to the Hurrian word &#353;eya ('river' or 'brook') has also been suggested."

Zion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What's the eastern border of the Land of Israel?


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## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> *Did you hear that from a Jebusite?*
> 
> "The etymology of the word Zion (&#7779;iyôn) is uncertain.[1][2][4] Mentioned in the Bible in the Book of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:7) as the name of the Jebusite fortress conquered by King David, its origin *likely predates the Israelites.*[1][2]
> 
> "If Semitic, it may be derived from the Hebrew root '&#7779;iyyôn ('castle') or the Hebrew &#7779;iyya ('dry land,' Jeremiah 51:43). A non-Semitic relationship to the Hurrian word &#353;eya ('river' or 'brook') has also been suggested."
> 
> Zion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> What's the eastern border of the Land of Israel?


The East coast of China and the East China Sea, as far as I'm concerned. What's the big deal?


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## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
Click to expand...


Interesting, there are three areas defined by armistice lines. What is the difference between the three?


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## Jos

American_Jihad said:


> ---



History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps[/QUOTE]

Lol, masada2000.org is a hate site for spotty adolescent jew boys to wank over in their moms basement



> Masada2000 is a pro-Israel California-based[2] Kahanist[3] website created and maintained by people from the United States,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masada2000
Rachel Neuwirth
Masada refers to a time when a bunch of jews killed themselves, rather than fight the Romans


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## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_


What about it?


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## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _Interesting, there are three areas defined by armistice lines. What is the difference between the three?_


Palistanians, of course, which have no land, no state and aren't even a people.


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## P F Tinmore

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Interesting, there are three areas defined by armistice lines. What is the difference between the three?_
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians, of course, which have no land, no state and aren't even a people.
Click to expand...


That is not one of the three.


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## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Interesting, there are three areas defined by armistice lines. What is the difference between the three?_
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians, of course, which have no land, no state and aren't even a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _That is not one of the three._
Click to expand...

Indeed, palistanians didn't even exist back then.


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## P F Tinmore

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palistanians, of course, which have no land, no state and aren't even a people.
> 
> 
> 
> _That is not one of the three._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, palistanians didn't even exist back then.
Click to expand...


Then why didn't they just do borders?


----------



## Jos

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _That is not one of the three._
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, palistanians didn't even exist back then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why didn't they just do borders?
Click to expand...


They plan to expand


----------



## toastman

Jos said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, palistanians didn't even exist back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why didn't they just do borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They plan to expand
Click to expand...


ANy proof of that Mohamed?


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Did you hear that from a Jebusite?*
> 
> "The etymology of the word Zion (&#7779;iyôn) is uncertain.[1][2][4] Mentioned in the Bible in the Book of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:7) as the name of the Jebusite fortress conquered by King David, its origin *likely predates the Israelites.*[1][2]
> 
> "If Semitic, it may be derived from the Hebrew root '&#7779;iyyôn ('castle') or the Hebrew &#7779;iyya ('dry land,' Jeremiah 51:43). A non-Semitic relationship to the Hurrian word &#353;eya ('river' or 'brook') has also been suggested."
> 
> Zion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> What's the eastern border of the Land of Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> The East coast of China and the East China Sea, as far as I'm concerned. What's the big deal?
Click to expand...

Let's ask Ben.

"Benjamin Franklin expressed the concept (popular sovereignty) when he wrote, 'In free governments, the rulers are the servants and the people their superiors and sovereigns."

Or maybe you prefer the "tea party" version?

"The term 'squatter sovereignty' is used by Jefferson Davis in his book A Short History of the Confederate States of America. This term referred to the influx of new citizens in order to manipulate the ultimate sovereign votes." 

Not unlike the hundreds of thousands of Eastern European Jews currently squatting on the West Bank?
Right?

Popular sovereignty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Did you hear that from a Jebusite?*
> 
> "The etymology of the word Zion (&#7779;iyôn) is uncertain.[1][2][4] Mentioned in the Bible in the Book of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:7) as the name of the Jebusite fortress conquered by King David, its origin *likely predates the Israelites.*[1][2]
> 
> "If Semitic, it may be derived from the Hebrew root '&#7779;iyyôn ('castle') or the Hebrew &#7779;iyya ('dry land,' Jeremiah 51:43). A non-Semitic relationship to the Hurrian word &#353;eya ('river' or 'brook') has also been suggested."
> 
> Zion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> What's the eastern border of the Land of Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> The East coast of China and the East China Sea, as far as I'm concerned. What's the big deal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's ask Ben.
> 
> "Benjamin Franklin expressed the concept (popular sovereignty) when he wrote, 'In free governments, the rulers are the servants and the people their superiors and sovereigns."
> 
> Or maybe you prefer the "tea party" version?
> 
> "The term 'squatter sovereignty' is used by Jefferson Davis in his book A Short History of the Confederate States of America. This term referred to the influx of new citizens in order to manipulate the ultimate sovereign votes."
> 
> Not unlike the hundreds of thousands of Eastern European Jews currently squatting on the West Bank?
> Right?
> 
> Popular sovereignty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Georgie Boy, you have my permission to run those Jews out of the West Bank. Get'er done, son.


----------



## Roudy

Jos said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, palistanians didn't even exist back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why didn't they just do borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They plan to expand
Click to expand...

How nice, he quotes IslamoNazi savages in his signature. Bacheh kuni, heyvoun, reedam be Mohammad.


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why didn't they just do borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They plan to expand
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ANy proof of that Mohamed?
Click to expand...

He's talkin' 'bout his anus, on Fridays, right after prayers.


----------



## American_Jihad

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, there are three areas defined by armistice lines. What is the difference between the three?
Click to expand...


1949 Armistice Agreements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, there are three areas defined by armistice lines. What is the difference between the three?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1949 Armistice Agreements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Thank you. From your link:



> The agreements ended the official hostilities of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and established Armistice Demarcation Lines between* Israeli forces and the forces in Jordanian-held West Bank,* also known as the Green Line.



Note: They did not say between Israel and Jordan.



> With Egypt
> 
> The Armistice Demarcation Line* is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,* and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.
> 
> The armistice demarcation line was drawn for the most part *along the 1922 international border between Egypt and Palestine,* except near the Mediterranean Sea, where Egypt remained in control of a strip of land along the coast, which became known as the Gaza Strip.





> With Lebanon
> 
> The armistice line ("Green Line", see also Blue Line (Lebanon)) was drawn along the *international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine.*[7]





> With Jordan
> 
> Jordanian forces remained in most positions held by them in the West Bank, particularly *East Jerusalem* which included the Old City.
> 
> In March 1949 as the Iraqi forces withdrew *from Palestine* and handed over their positions to the smaller Jordanian legion,...
> 
> On 15 July when the Israeli Army expelled the population of Wadi Fukin after the village had been transferred to the *Israeli-occupied* area under the terms of the Armistice Agreement ...





> With Syria
> 
> Syria withdrew its forces from most of the territories it controlled west of the *international border*, which became demilitarized zones.





> Cease-fire line vs. permanent border
> 
> *The areas of Palestine not occupied by Israel (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively until 1967.*



Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation: Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. There was no change to Palestine's international borders. Palestine was occupied but it lost no land in the 1948 war.


----------



## irosie91

easy----there were wars        which ended with an armistice and borders are in dispute

  There are some people so dim as to believe that when the earth was  "created'     it came complete with  a map and fixed  ETERNAL BORDERS


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> easy----there were wars        which ended with an armistice and borders are in dispute
> 
> There are some people so dim as to believe that when the earth was  "created'     it came complete with  a map and fixed  ETERNAL BORDERS



None of Palestine's borders are in dispute with its neighbors.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> easy----there were wars        which ended with an armistice and borders are in dispute
> 
> There are some people so dim as to believe that when the earth was  "created'     it came complete with  a map and fixed  ETERNAL BORDERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of Palestine's borders are in dispute with its neighbors.
Click to expand...


There is no country called  Palestine     except  HISTORICALLY     when  Palestine was an alternate name for   JUDEA/ISRAEL        You seem to like to BELCH out idiotic assertions as if you are an  AYATOILET    FARTING OUT FARTWAHS       Were you involved in the    AL AZHAR FARTWAH    of approximately     45 years ago which declared   ALL ISRAELI JEWS REGARDLESS OF AGE AND GENDER    legal targets of JIHADIST KILLING?      do you recall your  "LOGICAL BASIS FOR THIS FARTWAH"?             I never cease to be amazed at the  LOGIC OF YOUR SHARIAH SHIT


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> easy----there were wars        which ended with an armistice and borders are in dispute
> 
> There are some people so dim as to believe that when the earth was  "created'     it came complete with  a map and fixed  ETERNAL BORDERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None of Palestine's borders are in dispute with its neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no country called  Palestine     except  HISTORICALLY     when  Palestine was an alternate name for   JUDEA/ISRAEL        You seem to like to BELCH out idiotic assertions as if you are an  AYATOILET    FARTING OUT FARTWAHS       Were you involved in the    AL AZHAR FARTWAH    of approximately     45 years ago which declared   ALL ISRAELI JEWS REGARDLESS OF AGE AND GENDER    legal targets of JIHADIST KILLING?      do you recall your  "LOGICAL BASIS FOR THIS FARTWAH"?             I never cease to be amazed at the  LOGIC OF YOUR SHARIAH SHIT
Click to expand...


You need to scroll up to post #54.


----------



## irosie91

I do not scroll-------if you cannot describe your  "point"  ----you do not have one


----------



## Moonglow

> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again


Yet the US of A did it twice against the best millitary in the world.


----------



## Moonglow

through time nation have been created and destroyed, if you let israel have their own nation, again, then the rest of the colonialism era peoples in Palestine deserve their own nation.


----------



## irosie91

colonialism era?        you forgot to say    WESTERN COLONIALISM      I am reminded of my interactions with    Indians and Pakistanis    starting way back circa  1970    when I first learned that all the world's problems are based on ONE AND ONLY ONE PROGRAM OF  "conquest"    ie    the WESTERN EUROPEAN  -----somehow     the   GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST-----as nothing but  GLORIOUS AND OF GREAT BENEFIT TO MANKIND and---of course -----at it turned out    GENGHIS KHAN WAS A GREAT GUY        the whole issue that destroyed  GOODNESS    was the  BRITISH EMPIRE-------thanks for the reminder


----------



## Jos




----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> The agreements ended the official hostilities of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and established Armistice Demarcation Lines between* Israeli forces and the forces in Jordanian-held West Bank,* also known as the Green Line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note: They did not say between Israel and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Egypt
> 
> The Armistice Demarcation Line* is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,* and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.
> 
> The armistice demarcation line was drawn for the most part *along the 1922 international border between Egypt and Palestine,* except near the Mediterranean Sea, where Egypt remained in control of a strip of land along the coast, which became known as the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Lebanon
> 
> The armistice line ("Green Line", see also Blue Line (Lebanon)) was drawn along the *international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine.*[7]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Jordan
> 
> Jordanian forces remained in most positions held by them in the West Bank, particularly *East Jerusalem* which included the Old City.
> 
> In March 1949 as the Iraqi forces withdrew *from Palestine* and handed over their positions to the smaller Jordanian legion,...
> 
> On 15 July when the Israeli Army expelled the population of Wadi Fukin after the village had been transferred to the *Israeli-occupied* area under the terms of the Armistice Agreement ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Syria
> 
> Syria withdrew its forces from most of the territories it controlled west of the *international border*, which became demilitarized zones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cease-fire line vs. permanent border
> 
> *The areas of Palestine not occupied by Israel (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively until 1967.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation: Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. There was no change to Palestine's international borders. Palestine was occupied but it lost no land in the 1948 war.
Click to expand...


What this means is that Israel is a foreign military occupation of Palestine.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The agreements ended the official hostilities of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and established Armistice Demarcation Lines between* Israeli forces and the forces in Jordanian-held West Bank,* also known as the Green Line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note: They did not say between Israel and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cease-fire line vs. permanent border
> 
> *The areas of Palestine not occupied by Israel (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively until 1967.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation: Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. There was no change to Palestine's international borders. Palestine was occupied but it lost no land in the 1948 war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What this means is that Israel is a foreign military occupation of Palestine.
Click to expand...




Wrong again      what it means is that  PALESTINE   aka  JUDEA/ISRAEL    which was invaded by the dogs of arabia ------still harbors enclaves of those dogs   -----on both its eastern and western aspects        The arabian dogs are gathered in parts of Judea which is on the western bank of the Jordan River        some of the dogs remained in the JUDEAN holy city of jerusalem as well------on the east      the dogs gathered in Gaza------which, in general is not an important land mass to  Israel ------but is a strategic advantage to violent criminal aggressors in the west


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note: They did not say between Israel and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation: Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. There was no change to Palestine's international borders. Palestine was occupied but it lost no land in the 1948 war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What this means is that Israel is a foreign military occupation of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again      what it means is that  PALESTINE   aka  JUDEA/ISRAEL    which was invaded by the dogs of arabia ------still harbors enclaves of those dogs   -----on both its eastern and western aspects        The arabian dogs are gathered in parts of Judea which is on the western bank of the Jordan River        some of the dogs remained in the JUDEAN holy city of jerusalem as well------on the east      the dogs gathered in Gaza------which, in general is not an important land mass to  Israel ------but is a strategic advantage to violent criminal aggressors in the west
Click to expand...


Where did it say that?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What this means is that Israel is a foreign military occupation of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again      what it means is that  PALESTINE   aka  JUDEA/ISRAEL    which was invaded by the dogs of arabia ------still harbors enclaves of those dogs   -----on both its eastern and western aspects        The arabian dogs are gathered in parts of Judea which is on the western bank of the Jordan River        some of the dogs remained in the JUDEAN holy city of jerusalem as well------on the east      the dogs gathered in Gaza------which, in general is not an important land mass to  Israel ------but is a strategic advantage to violent criminal aggressors in the west
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did it say that?
Click to expand...



"it"    describes the situation of the lands------"it"  does not describe the circumstances that led to the situation  ------at all


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again      what it means is that  PALESTINE   aka  JUDEA/ISRAEL    which was invaded by the dogs of arabia ------still harbors enclaves of those dogs   -----on both its eastern and western aspects        The arabian dogs are gathered in parts of Judea which is on the western bank of the Jordan River        some of the dogs remained in the JUDEAN holy city of jerusalem as well------on the east      the dogs gathered in Gaza------which, in general is not an important land mass to  Israel ------but is a strategic advantage to violent criminal aggressors in the west
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did it say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "it"    describes the situation of the lands------"it"  does not describe the circumstances that led to the situation  ------at all
Click to expand...


That seemed to be an accurate portrayal of the 1949 armistice agreements.

Is there something specific that you disagree with?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did it say that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "it"    describes the situation of the lands------"it"  does not describe the circumstances that led to the situation  ------at all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seemed to be an accurate portrayal of the 1949 armistice agreements.
> 
> Is there something specific that you disagree with?
Click to expand...


your bizarre interpretation of the fact of an ARMISTICE  as  legalizing the theft of  PALESTINE  ---aka  Judea/Israel by the dogs of arabia and rendering them    "INDIGENOUS"        the dogs of arabia are no more indigenous to  palestine aka judea/israel     than are the   dutch AFRIKAANERS in   south africa----or even the   SUDANESE ARABS OF KHARTOUM    to the subsaharan nation of SUDAN


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "it"    describes the situation of the lands------"it"  does not describe the circumstances that led to the situation  ------at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That seemed to be an accurate portrayal of the 1949 armistice agreements.
> 
> Is there something specific that you disagree with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your bizarre interpretation of the fact of an ARMISTICE  as  legalizing the theft of  PALESTINE  ---aka  Judea/Israel by the dogs of arabia and rendering them    "INDIGENOUS"        the dogs of arabia are no more indigenous to  palestine aka judea/israel     than are the   dutch AFRIKAANERS in   south africa----or even the   SUDANESE ARABS OF KHARTOUM    to the subsaharan nation of SUDAN
Click to expand...


The armistice agreements are legal documents signed by Israel and the surrounding countries. Why do you find faults when they did not?


----------



## Roudy

Blah blah blah, Jordan is Palestine.  How many Palestines do Arab Muslims want, 20?


----------



## toastman

Moonglow said:


> through time nation have been created and destroyed, if you let israel have their own nation, again, then the rest of the colonialism era peoples in Palestine deserve their own nation.



They don't deserve nothing until they disarm themselves. Hamas, a group that advocates genocide against the Jewish people, teaches their kids to hate, is the main reason the Palestinians don't have their own land. And it will always be like this. Because it's too late, Hamas cannot be trusted. 

We gave them Gaza to themselves, and look what they have done ! Imagine if we gave them the Weest Bank too !


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> Blah blah blah, Jordan is Palestine.  How many Palestines do Arab Muslims want, 20?



The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.


----------



## Jos

Masada 2000, A wank-site for adolescent jewish Wimps


----------



## toastman

Jos said:


> Masada 2000, A wank-site for adolescent jewish Wimps



You're mad?


HAHa. ya, you're mad !


----------



## Jos

toastman said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Masada 2000, A wank-site for adolescent jewish Wimps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're mad?
> 
> 
> HAHa. ya, you're mad !
Click to expand...


Oh Sorry, touch a nerve did I?


----------



## kvetch

Israel has 2 mortal enemies

Itself

and false "Friends" like "American Ji - Mad"...gee is he mad................

he is definitely an Al Qa'ida plant

or is that Che Guevara in his lens? Looks a bit like him


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, Jordan is Palestine.  How many Palestines do Arab Muslims want, 20?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.
Click to expand...

Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.


----------



## Roudy

Jos said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Masada 2000, A wank-site for adolescent jewish Wimps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're mad?
> 
> 
> HAHa. ya, you're mad !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Sorry, touch a nerve did I?
Click to expand...

not really, you're fulla shit and lying as usual.  All maps that show a Palestine in the 1920's show exactly the same.  I can post at least 20 such maps from different sources.  You and your dear leader Adolfi-Nejad need to pull your heads of your Mohammads.


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> colonialism era?        you forgot to say    WESTERN COLONIALISM      I am reminded of my interactions with    Indians and Pakistanis    starting way back circa  1970    when I first learned that all the world's problems are based on ONE AND ONLY ONE PROGRAM OF  "conquest"    ie    the WESTERN EUROPEAN  -----somehow     the   GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST-----as nothing but  GLORIOUS AND OF GREAT BENEFIT TO MANKIND and---of course -----at it turned out    GENGHIS KHAN WAS A GREAT GUY        the whole issue that destroyed  GOODNESS    was the  BRITISH EMPIRE-------thanks for the reminder


they are all equally evil except genghis and the spanish in south america who were the worst I know of


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, there are three areas defined by armistice lines. What is the difference between the three?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 Armistice Agreements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you. From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> Note: They did not say between Israel and Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Syria
> 
> Syria withdrew its forces from most of the territories it controlled west of the *international border*, which became demilitarized zones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cease-fire line vs. permanent border
> 
> *The areas of Palestine not occupied by Israel (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively until 1967.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation: Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. There was no change to Palestine's international borders. Palestine was occupied but it lost no land in the 1948 war.
Click to expand...

It looks like Tinny can't accept the fact that Israel is a country.  I wonder if Hamas tells him to repeat this stuff over and over on his magic computer.  Suppose I keep on blurting out like Tinny does and say that Pakistan is occupied land which belongs to the Hindus (who ancestors were actually there for thousands and thousands of years).  I am still waiting for Tinny or one of his friends to tell us how come it was the Jews who manned the Palestine booth at the World's Fair in 1940.  Surely he or they must have some explanation for this.


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "it"    describes the situation of the lands------"it"  does not describe the circumstances that led to the situation  ------at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That seemed to be an accurate portrayal of the 1949 armistice agreements.
> 
> Is there something specific that you disagree with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your bizarre interpretation of the fact of an ARMISTICE  as  legalizing the theft of  PALESTINE  ---aka  Judea/Israel by the dogs of arabia and rendering them    "INDIGENOUS"        the dogs of arabia are no more indigenous to  palestine aka judea/israel     than are the   dutch AFRIKAANERS in   south africa----or even the   SUDANESE ARABS OF KHARTOUM    to the subsaharan nation of SUDAN
Click to expand...

i agree but not in the same way

the pals contain a mix of DNA of all the ancient folx who ever lived there including jews

probably only 1% of DNA of arab inhabitants of all arab lands outside the gulf is that of the original saudi "dogs" who invaded after 632 a.d.

an arab is just one whose native lingo is arabic

most israelis, including jews were arabs until the russian invasion and half those aint even jews


----------



## kvetch

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, Jordan is Palestine.  How many Palestines do Arab Muslims want, 20?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
Click to expand...

there were 3 british plots

1) False promise to jews (balfour)
2) False promise to arabs...independence

3) what they actually DID...divide it up between Brits and french (Sykes Picot agreement)

Moral: NEVER TRUST THE BRITS


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why didn't they just do borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They plan to expand
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ANy proof of that Mohamed?
Click to expand...

You are blind

expansion of settlements all the  time
expulsion of 30,000 bedouins

all this is expanding


----------



## kvetch

GHook93 said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> God allowed Israel to fall many times in history.  History is not over yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to you, your history was supposed to be over a while back, but once again you are still annoying everyone with your existence!
Click to expand...

speak for yourself you igno rant schmuck

his was an intelligent post, based on real events

yours was just your usual zero IQ muck shit


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> jos is playing     "thump on ape chest ----gutter thug"      again


no that is this moron USA Jihad

just ra ra ra ra crap


----------



## kvetch

MJB12741 said:


> For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.
> 
> And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.


israel is its own worst enemy; as are its "friends" here


----------



## kvetch

"Not unlike the hundreds of thousands of Eastern European Jews currently squatting on the West Bank?
Right?"

they aint even jewish, they are just russians who like the sun and poor israelis who have been priced out of israel proper by exorbitant rents and attracted by subsidies

the ones not there to fight and steal , that is


----------



## kvetch

Israel is often used interchangeably with the Jewish people in conversation.

one is now a threat to the other; both ways round

best save all the jewish people and give the land back to the pals


----------



## toastman

kvetch said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.
> 
> And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> israel is its own worst enemy; as are its "friends" here
Click to expand...


The only enemy Israel has are the radical Muslims, who still up to now have not been able to demolish Israel hahaha


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> kvetch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.
> 
> And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> israel is its own worst enemy; as are its "friends" here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only enemy Israel has are the radical Muslims, who still up to now have not been able to demolish Israel hahaha
Click to expand...

you are more of a threat to israel the people and the state than a thousand jihadis


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> kvetch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For over 4000 years Israel's enemies have said Israel is doomed.
> 
> And 4000 years from now Israel's enemies will still be saying Israel is doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> israel is its own worst enemy; as are its "friends" here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only enemy Israel has are the radical Muslims, who still up to now have not been able to demolish Israel hahaha
Click to expand...

that .....................ha ha ha ..........is so so childish

that's what school kids do

they usually grow out of it around 11 years old


----------



## toastman

Great counter argument Mohamed


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> Great counter argument Mohamed


calling people false names is what demented, or delusional people do

try a few more of your bogstandard trixcks moron

we know you can't argue properly or challenge logically; way beyond your pay grade


----------



## toastman

You wrote that Isfrael is its own worst enemy, but didn't write why. I would say you suck at arguing


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah, Jordan is Palestine.  How many Palestines do Arab Muslims want, 20?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
Click to expand...


You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
Click to expand...

You're living in 1947, Yassir Jr.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
Click to expand...


The goal of the 1948 war for the Arabs was to drive the Jews to the sea
The goal of the 1948 war for the Jews was survival


The Arabs did not suceed in getting rid of the Jews
The Jews did suceed in surviving


Also, Israel didn't even have a real army then , whereas the surrounding countries that attacked Israel did and had much more troops and weaponry. 

I would say Israel definately won the war


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
Click to expand...

I dunno.  Last I checked the history books well armed Arabs ganged up and attacked a rag tag make-shift army of Israelis in 48, with the intent to destroy it and failed miserably and they were humiliated.  But that wasn't the last time they got their butts handed to them by the Israelis.  You need to stop reading these Arab science fiction novels.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Arabs was to drive the Jews to the sea
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Jews was survival
> 
> 
> The Arabs did not suceed in getting rid of the Jews
> The Jews did suceed in surviving
> 
> 
> Also, Israel didn't even have a real army then , whereas the surrounding countries that attacked Israel did and had much more troops and weaponry.
> 
> I would say Israel definately won the war
Click to expand...


Got links?


----------



## kvetch

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish Palestine was a British plot that flopped. Britain cut and ran.
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
Click to expand...

kindly explain

i know what you mean i think but others need enlightening


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> You wrote that Isfrael is its own worst enemy, but didn't write why. I would say you suck at arguing


well i will try and enlighten you tho i fear its casting pearls

israel to jews like half of me means 2 different things

the jewish peiple which i whole heartedly support

then the country; stolen land of palestine which i think is a self destructive project which is a big threat to israel the people


----------



## Lipush

you support the Jewish people? Could have fooled us. mmhm.


----------



## P F Tinmore

kvetch said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> kindly explain
> 
> i know what you mean i think but others need enlightening
Click to expand...


The fighting in the 1948 war ended when a UN Security Council resolution called for an armistice. An armistice ends hostilities without anyone surrendering. There are no winners or losers. The result is that Israel won no land in that war.

A good summery of the armistice agreements, that Israel signed can be found here:

www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-p...-it-israel-is-here-to-stay-4.html#post6241189


----------



## mudwhistle

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​



Not if Obama can help it.


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine was a British plot? No, Palestine was a region owned by the Ottomans for 600 years and then the British and the French took control of and many other regions, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after WWII.  The Arabs had jackshit to say about it.  Many countries were carved out all of them Arab and Islamic, and one Jewish which comprised of less than 1% of the land.  The filthy violent intolerance Arabs couldn't even agree to that and attacked the newly formed state of Israel and got their butts handed to them.  They attempted many times later on and STILL got their butts handed to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Arabs was to drive the Jews to the sea
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Jews was survival
> 
> 
> The Arabs did not suceed in getting rid of the Jews
> The Jews did suceed in surviving
> 
> 
> Also, Israel didn't even have a real army then , whereas the surrounding countries that attacked Israel did and had much more troops and weaponry.
> 
> I would say Israel definately won the war
Click to expand...

all you can do toastie is to parrot zionist cliches and lies

here's the truth from an ISRAELI historian; exerpt of wikipedia

Pappé is one of Israel's New Historians who, since the release of pertinent British and Israeli government documents in the early 1980s, have been rewriting the history of Israel's creation in 1948, and the corresponding expulsion or flight of 700,000 Palestinians in the same year. He has written that the expulsions were not decided on an ad hoc basis, as other historians have argued, but constituted the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, in accordance with Plan Dalet, drawn up in 1947 by Israel's future leaders.[7] He blames the creation of Israel for the lack of peace in the Middle East, arguing that Zionism is more dangerous than Islamic militancy, and has called for an international boycott of Israeli academics.[8][9]

Pappé supports the one-state solution, which envisages a binational state for Palestinians and Israelis.[10]

His work has been both supported and criticized by other historians. Before he left Israel in 2008, he had been condemned in the Knesset, Israel's parliament; a minister of education had called for him to be sacked; his photograph had appeared in a newspaper at the centre of a target; and he had received several death threats.[11]

note how free israel truly is when truth is told.....he was threatened...


----------



## irosie91

Pappe is a man who depends on sensationalism in order to earn his bread------only idiots swallow WHOLE----the crap that  failed scholars sing to earn their supper


----------



## kvetch

Moonglow said:


> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again
> 
> 
> 
> Yet the US of A did it twice against the best millitary in the world.
Click to expand...

the USA lost to the vietnamese peasants

turned iraq into a pro iran shi ite muslim fascist state

has lost to the taliban

failed in lebanon and somalia

only recent success i can think of is kosovo where not a single yankee cowboy boot  ever stood

and obama putting osama out of his misery

and USA is too cowardly and bankrupt now to deal with iran


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> Pappe is a man who depends on sensationalism in order to earn his bread------only idiots swallow WHOLE----the crap that  failed scholars sing to earn their supper



*Everybody* who does not suck up to Israel gets slimed.

What a coincidence.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pappe is a man who depends on sensationalism in order to earn his bread------only idiots swallow WHOLE----the crap that  failed scholars sing to earn their supper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Everybody* who does not suck up to Israel gets slimed.
> 
> What a coincidence.
Click to expand...


the phrase   SUCK UP   is very vulgar------save that  SUCKING  for the mosque where it belongs     Pappe is STILL ALIVE------and has no fear of being murdered for his writings----now tell us about the people who write books and make movies and write articles not "SUCKING UP "    (to paraphrase a vulgar slob)       TO THE RAPIST PIG


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pappe is a man who depends on sensationalism in order to earn his bread------only idiots swallow WHOLE----the crap that  failed scholars sing to earn their supper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Everybody* who does not suck up to Israel gets slimed.
> 
> What a coincidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the phrase   SUCK UP   is very vulgar------save that  SUCKING  for the mosque where it belongs     Pappe is STILL ALIVE------and has no fear of being murdered for his writings----now tell us about the people who write books and make movies and write articles not "SUCKING UP "    (to paraphrase a vulgar slob)       TO THE RAPIST PIG
Click to expand...


He had to move to Britain.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Everybody* who does not suck up to Israel gets slimed.
> 
> What a coincidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the phrase   SUCK UP   is very vulgar------save that  SUCKING  for the mosque where it belongs     Pappe is STILL ALIVE------and has no fear of being murdered for his writings----now tell us about the people who write books and make movies and write articles not "SUCKING UP "    (to paraphrase a vulgar slob)       TO THE RAPIST PIG
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He had to move to Britain.
Click to expand...


wrong---he did not HAVE TO-----he chose to------had he stayed in Israel----he would still be alive


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the phrase   SUCK UP   is very vulgar------save that  SUCKING  for the mosque where it belongs     Pappe is STILL ALIVE------and has no fear of being murdered for his writings----now tell us about the people who write books and make movies and write articles not "SUCKING UP "    (to paraphrase a vulgar slob)       TO THE RAPIST PIG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He had to move to Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wrong---he did not HAVE TO-----he chose to------had he stayed in Israel----he would still be alive
Click to expand...


And unemployed.


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He had to move to Britain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrong---he did not HAVE TO-----he chose to------had he stayed in Israel----he would still be alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And unemployed.
Click to expand...


What a joke you are----there is a very big UNEMPLOYMENT problem in Israel    SO?   Lots of Israelis leave Israel seeking a job      Are you suggesting that the MOSSAD wants to get him but he is being protected to  SCOTLAND YARD?     of course you are     Were he to stay in israel----there would be NOTHING stopping him from writing books.     You engage in INCESSANT wishful thinking------I know it is  frustrating for you that  scores of baby brain smashing nail bombs  MISS THEIR MARK  -----but try to live with it


----------



## toastman

kvetch said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You assume that Israel won the 1948 war. It did not. Israel came out of the 1948 war without one square inch of land to its name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Arabs was to drive the Jews to the sea
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Jews was survival
> 
> 
> The Arabs did not suceed in getting rid of the Jews
> The Jews did suceed in surviving
> 
> 
> Also, Israel didn't even have a real army then , whereas the surrounding countries that attacked Israel did and had much more troops and weaponry.
> 
> I would say Israel definately won the war
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all you can do toastie is to parrot zionist cliches and lies
> 
> here's the truth from an ISRAELI historian; exerpt of wikipedia
> 
> Pappé is one of Israel's New Historians who, since the release of pertinent British and Israeli government documents in the early 1980s, have been rewriting the history of Israel's creation in 1948, and the corresponding expulsion or flight of 700,000 Palestinians in the same year. He has written that the expulsions were not decided on an ad hoc basis, as other historians have argued, but constituted the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, in accordance with Plan Dalet, drawn up in 1947 by Israel's future leaders.[7] He blames the creation of Israel for the lack of peace in the Middle East, arguing that Zionism is more dangerous than Islamic militancy, and has called for an international boycott of Israeli academics.[8][9]
> 
> Pappé supports the one-state solution, which envisages a binational state for Palestinians and Israelis.[10]
> 
> His work has been both supported and criticized by other historians. Before he left Israel in 2008, he had been condemned in the Knesset, Israel's parliament; a minister of education had called for him to be sacked; his photograph had appeared in a newspaper at the centre of a target; and he had received several death threats.[11]
> 
> note how free israel truly is when truth is told.....he was threatened...
Click to expand...


You did not disprove ANYTHING I said, you monkey.


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> Pappe is a man who depends on sensationalism in order to earn his bread------only idiots swallow WHOLE----the crap that  failed scholars sing to earn their supper


yes and no

the poor ole historians just dont get read unless they hype it up these days!

but exeter uni where he is is a specialist arab and mid east centre of excellence in UK and you dont get in there unless you are real expert.


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> kvetch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Arabs was to drive the Jews to the sea
> The goal of the 1948 war for the Jews was survival
> 
> 
> The Arabs did not suceed in getting rid of the Jews
> The Jews did suceed in surviving
> 
> 
> Also, Israel didn't even have a real army then , whereas the surrounding countries that attacked Israel did and had much more troops and weaponry.
> 
> I would say Israel definately won the war
> 
> 
> 
> all you can do toastie is to parrot zionist cliches and lies
> 
> here's the truth from an ISRAELI historian; exerpt of wikipedia
> 
> Pappé is one of Israel's New Historians who, since the release of pertinent British and Israeli government documents in the early 1980s, have been rewriting the history of Israel's creation in 1948, and the corresponding expulsion or flight of 700,000 Palestinians in the same year. He has written that the expulsions were not decided on an ad hoc basis, as other historians have argued, but constituted the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, in accordance with Plan Dalet, drawn up in 1947 by Israel's future leaders.[7] He blames the creation of Israel for the lack of peace in the Middle East, arguing that Zionism is more dangerous than Islamic militancy, and has called for an international boycott of Israeli academics.[8][9]
> 
> Pappé supports the one-state solution, which envisages a binational state for Palestinians and Israelis.[10]
> 
> His work has been both supported and criticized by other historians. Before he left Israel in 2008, he had been condemned in the Knesset, Israel's parliament; a minister of education had called for him to be sacked; his photograph had appeared in a newspaper at the centre of a target; and he had received several death threats.[11]
> 
> note how free israel truly is when truth is told.....he was threatened...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You did not disprove ANYTHING I said, you monkey.
Click to expand...

true....just putting a different truth

the only error in what you said was that the Arabs had a decent army; they were a rabble

except the Jordanian legion which had british officers; ben gurion wisely FORBADE the haganah from invading the west bank

you needed stalin's help in that war; he gave you your guns via czechs, didn't he??


----------



## irosie91

oooohhh...!!!!    that's it?    the czechs-----Kvetch---you forgot your lessons-----the islamo nazi partyline regarding the war of  1948 is that the   US MARINES  landed in Tel Aviv and did all the fighting to  SAVE THE JEWS         yes----the poor arabs never so much as had a gun--------the poor STARVING arabs were trounced so UNFAIRLY-----every time


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> oooohhh...!!!!    that's it?    the czechs-----Kvetch---you forgot your lessons-----the islamo nazi partyline regarding the war of  1948 is that the   US MARINES  landed in Tel Aviv and did all the fighting to  SAVE THE JEWS         yes----the poor arabs never so much as had a gun--------the poor STARVING arabs were trounced so UNFAIRLY-----every time


honestly Rosie when I first was in Egypt in 1971, 4 years after 67 war, every single egyptian believed that it was the UK and USA that had destroyed them not israel

my yenta was in lebanon in 67....same story there; the mob attacked the UK embassy where she worked.....as a zionist spy of course

everything is the fault of US UK and Zionists...never ever their own faults

BIG BIG PROBLEM...........EVEN NOW

PS ARE Y'ALL OK WHERE YOU ARE? LESS WINDY TODAY OR WHAT?

I worry for you aunty tollah!!


----------



## toastman

kvetch said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oooohhh...!!!!    that's it?    the czechs-----Kvetch---you forgot your lessons-----the islamo nazi partyline regarding the war of  1948 is that the   US MARINES  landed in Tel Aviv and did all the fighting to  SAVE THE JEWS         yes----the poor arabs never so much as had a gun--------the poor STARVING arabs were trounced so UNFAIRLY-----every time
> 
> 
> 
> honestly Rosie when I first was in Egypt in 1971, 4 years after 67 war, every single egyptian believed that it was the UK and USA that had destroyed them not israel
> 
> my yenta was in lebanon in 67....same story there; the mob attacked the UK embassy where she worked.....as a zionist spy of course
> 
> everything is the fault of US UK and Zionists...never ever their own faults
> 
> BIG BIG PROBLEM...........EVEN NOW
> 
> PS ARE Y'ALL OK WHERE YOU ARE? LESS WINDY TODAY OR WHAT?
> 
> I worry for you aunty tollah!!
Click to expand...


Wrong. Everything is the fault of the Arabs, who had the chance to live in peace with the Jews, but refused. They waged war, lost land in the process of that war, and now are crying about it.


----------



## irosie91

yes----I encountered muslims-----more like  1968-----lots from the INDIAN SUBCONTINENT------that's when I learned a NEW WORD     "zionist-controlled-cia'    which somehow not only controlled the middle east AND THE USA ------but even pakistani politics       Guess who created all the trouble in east pakistan  BESIDES  the  "INDIAN ARMY"?          guess who assassinated the pakistani   uhm   "president"    uhm  I am not sure of his name-----first they klled   uhm   'zia'??  some guy who went down in a plane crash   SHOT DOWN BY MOSSAD-----then I think they murdered papa bhutto----but I am not sure-----have to check that history.    In any case----the WHOLE world is under the thumb of   the  "zionist-controlled-cia"

    the weather in north east  USA is calming down      lots of people in both New York and New Joisey   are without electricity      I did not fill up water bottles-------but-------it did not matter        A few deaths from falling trees,  downed electrical lines and fires.    Mayor Blumberg is doing is  grandfatherly thing     "REMEMBER TO WEAR YOUR GALOSHES"           the kids are ecstatic ------NO SCHOOL      Chris Christie  has piped up with his LEADERSHIP thing-----he is planning to  CHANGE THE DATE OF HALLOWEEN   (which is certain to end the storm ONCE AND FOR ALL)

   As a SIGN FROM HEAVEN------atlantic city has washed away-----into the Atlantic -------a kind of reprise of  SODOM AND GOMORRAH


----------



## kvetch

toastman said:


> kvetch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oooohhh...!!!!    that's it?    the czechs-----Kvetch---you forgot your lessons-----the islamo nazi partyline regarding the war of  1948 is that the   US MARINES  landed in Tel Aviv and did all the fighting to  SAVE THE JEWS         yes----the poor arabs never so much as had a gun--------the poor STARVING arabs were trounced so UNFAIRLY-----every time
> 
> 
> 
> honestly Rosie when I first was in Egypt in 1971, 4 years after 67 war, every single egyptian believed that it was the UK and USA that had destroyed them not israel
> 
> my yenta was in lebanon in 67....same story there; the mob attacked the UK embassy where she worked.....as a zionist spy of course
> 
> everything is the fault of US UK and Zionists...never ever their own faults
> 
> BIG BIG PROBLEM...........EVEN NOW
> 
> PS ARE Y'ALL OK WHERE YOU ARE? LESS WINDY TODAY OR WHAT?
> 
> I worry for you aunty tollah!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong. Everything is the fault of the Arabs, who had the chance to live in peace with the Jews, but refused. They waged war, lost land in the process of that war, and now are crying about it.
Click to expand...

half true

the other half is the fault of the zio thieves that stole it


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> yes----I encountered muslims-----more like  1968-----lots from the INDIAN SUBCONTINENT------that's when I learned a NEW WORD     "zionist-controlled-cia'    which somehow not only controlled the middle east AND THE USA ------but even pakistani politics       Guess who created all the trouble in east pakistan  BESIDES  the  "INDIAN ARMY"?          guess who assassinated the pakistani   uhm   "president"    uhm  I am not sure of his name-----first they klled   uhm   'zia'??  some guy who went down in a plane crash   SHOT DOWN BY MOSSAD-----then I think they murdered papa bhutto----but I am not sure-----have to check that history.    In any case----the WHOLE world is under the thumb of   the  "zionist-controlled-cia"
> 
> the weather in north east  USA is calming down      lots of people in both New York and New Joisey   are without electricity      I did not fill up water bottles-------but-------it did not matter        A few deaths from falling trees,  downed electrical lines and fires.    Mayor Blumberg is doing is  grandfatherly thing     "REMEMBER TO WEAR YOUR GALOSHES"           the kids are ecstatic ------NO SCHOOL      Chris Christie  has piped up with his LEADERSHIP thing-----he is planning to  CHANGE THE DATE OF HALLOWEEN   (which is certain to end the storm ONCE AND FOR ALL)
> 
> As a SIGN FROM HEAVEN------atlantic city has washed away-----into the Atlantic -------a kind of reprise of  SODOM AND GOMORRAH


whoever shot down that paki plane with not just Zia al haq but 20 other top thugs deserves a nobel prize

nobel was an armament tycoon after all

bhutto, daddy (hung by zia) and daughter killed by paki not afghan taliban are not in the same class but the elected govt in no way controls or runs pakistan

not even the army

its the wicked ISI..(paki CIA)  and they are split in factions pulling this way and that...all deadly

glad you are OK and the casino sodom is less so tho hope just the casinos perish not the folx in them

sandy indeed...could it get to vegas too???


----------



## irosie91

Before Chris Christie  ALLOWED HEAVEN  to destroy ----the casinos-----he cleared them of humans-------and all along I thought he was just a silly dumb teddy bear----he got it RIGHT FOR ONCE


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> Before Chris Christie  ALLOWED HEAVEN  to destroy ----the casinos-----he cleared them of humans-------and all along I thought he was just a silly dumb teddy bear----he got it RIGHT FOR ONCE


one bbc expert on USA said he ......Chris Christie .....was the best republican  elephant candidate but too sensible to stand for president


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> kvetch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oooohhh...!!!!    that's it?    the czechs-----Kvetch---you forgot your lessons-----the islamo nazi partyline regarding the war of  1948 is that the   US MARINES  landed in Tel Aviv and did all the fighting to  SAVE THE JEWS         yes----the poor arabs never so much as had a gun--------the poor STARVING arabs were trounced so UNFAIRLY-----every time
> 
> 
> 
> honestly Rosie when I first was in Egypt in 1971, 4 years after 67 war, every single egyptian believed that it was the UK and USA that had destroyed them not israel
> 
> my yenta was in lebanon in 67....same story there; the mob attacked the UK embassy where she worked.....as a zionist spy of course
> 
> everything is the fault of US UK and Zionists...never ever their own faults
> 
> BIG BIG PROBLEM...........EVEN NOW
> 
> PS ARE Y'ALL OK WHERE YOU ARE? LESS WINDY TODAY OR WHAT?
> 
> I worry for you aunty tollah!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong. Everything is the fault of the Arabs, who had the chance to live in peace with the Jews, but refused. They waged war, lost land in the process of that war, and now are crying about it.
Click to expand...


That is one of Israel's biggest lies.

The Palestinians have never lost any land to Israel.


----------



## kvetch

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was said 50 years ago that there will be no Israel few years tops. so?
> 
> Israel exist and will exist forever!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is facing more serious challenges today than it ever has.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what else is new?     so is the WHOLE WORLD
Click to expand...

especially your sandy bit of the word rosita

how are you today and your stormy hood??


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kvetch said:
> 
> 
> 
> honestly Rosie when I first was in Egypt in 1971, 4 years after 67 war, every single egyptian believed that it was the UK and USA that had destroyed them not israel
> 
> my yenta was in lebanon in 67....same story there; the mob attacked the UK embassy where she worked.....as a zionist spy of course
> 
> everything is the fault of US UK and Zionists...never ever their own faults
> 
> BIG BIG PROBLEM...........EVEN NOW
> 
> PS ARE Y'ALL OK WHERE YOU ARE? LESS WINDY TODAY OR WHAT?
> 
> I worry for you aunty tollah!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong. Everything is the fault of the Arabs, who had the chance to live in peace with the Jews, but refused. They waged war, lost land in the process of that war, and now are crying about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is one of Israel's biggest lies.
> 
> The Palestinians have never lost any land to Israel.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  That's a trick statement, especially when you consider there were no Arab Palestinians until after 1967.  Before that they were just Arab invaders from neighboring countries.


----------



## irosie91

Semantics    roudy      There was an anti semitic   Nation of islam pig -----who has since died   
who was very much like tinnie in use of semantics       He actually based a WHOLE SPEECH----on his theory that the fact that lots of jews have the last name    "gold"     or  "silver"    'PROVES'     that jews  own and control all the money in the world.    I believe that the pig dropped dead of a   CEREBRAL ANEURYSM------but I simply cannot remember his name       He was very active before his brain blew up------so frequently offering his  BRIALLIANT THEORIES ON REALITY


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9bTGhUw_8g]Susane E. Lee in KOSHER PIG "I&#39;m On My Period!" - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## American_Jihad

eots said:


> Susane E. Lee in KOSHER PIG "I'm On My Period!" - YouTube



SuperUnrealWorld - YouTube


----------



## SAYIT

TakeAStepBack said:


> I have no vested interest in Israel. Stay, go, fuck off. It means less than nothing to me. I just see a lot of "Yay! Israel!!" threads around here. So ask, who cares?



If you don't care, why visit this board, Azzhole?


----------



## American_Jihad

SAYIT said:


> TakeAStepBack said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no vested interest in Israel. Stay, go, fuck off. It means less than nothing to me. I just see a lot of "Yay! Israel!!" threads around here. So ask, who cares?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't care, why visit this board, Azzhole?
Click to expand...


lol, he should live up to his name...


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Er wake up call, Israel is less than 70 years old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is often used interchangeably with the Jewish people in conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only by those who conflate the two so that they can play the anti Semite card.
Click to expand...


As always all you have to contribute is your monumental ignorance.
The name Israel has historically been used, in common and religious usage, to refer to the *biblical Kingdom of Israel or the entire Jewish nation*.
Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## irosie91

I am often amused at the fact that  so many people are THAT IGNORANT  of the usages of the Term  "ISRAEL"    and other clear biblical references since they are SO COMMONLY used in     English literature  and poetry and art for more than  1000 years        ----just high school   "ENGLISH LIT"     should have done it for you--------where you in a coma when you were  15 years old?


----------



## American_Jihad

*'Israel should annex settlements over UN bid' *

By JPOST.COM STAFF, KHALED ABU TOAMEH, T. LAZAROFF 11/14/2012

*Likud Minister Gilad Erdan says Israel should "immediately" annex settlements, regardless of US opposition. *

Environmental Protection Minister Gilad Erdan on Wednesday morning called for the government to annex all West Bank settlements.

In an interview with Israel Radio, Erdan called for the "immediate annexation of the Jewish population" in the West Bank in response to the Palestinian Authority's attempt to upgrade its status at the United Nations.

When asked if he was concerned that annexing the settlements would anger the United States, Erdan responded that as long as the PA was going against American wishes at the UN, Israel should not sit idly by without acting. "We don't always see eye-to-eye with the US," he said.

---
'Israel should annex settlements ... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics


----------



## georgephillip

"European and Arab foreign ministers failed to jointly endorse the unilateral Palestinian statehood bid at the United Nations during a meeting in Cairo on Tuesday, calling instead for a negotiated two-state solution.

"But when it came to talking about obstacles to the peace process, the European and Arab ministers blamed only the West Bank settlements and Israel&#8217;s security barrier."

*Have the "chosen" people chosen an eastern border yet?*

'Israel should annex settlements ... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics


----------



## Indofred

By the way, did anyone mention Egypt has moved tanks into Sinai?
They're there to fight the terrorist threat to the area.
Of course they are, I'll believe a tank is effective against a rapid moving, small, hidden force.

I don't think the Israeli bastard government does either, that'll be why they've asked Washington to get the Egyptians to move them.
Quite why they could just ask themselves is a bit odd, perhaps a request from the Israeli's bitch carries more weight.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Why Did Hamas Provoke a Conflict?*

by Elliott Abrams 
November 15, 2012 


There is a conflict now between Israel and Hamas because Hamas insisted on starting one. After relatively few rocket and mortar strikes into Israel in 2010 and 2011, Hamas increased the numbers strikingly this year, and finally fired more than 100 into Israel this past weekend. This was a deliberate effort by Hamas to elicit an Israeli response, for it was obvious that as the numbers grew any Israeli government would have to protect its population. One must assume that if Israel had not responded to the hundred rockets last weekend, Hamas would have upped the ante even more until it got what it wanted.
The question is why. Why did Hamas want to provoke an Israeli attack?

I would offer two theories. First, in recent months the Palestinian Authority under Hamass enemies in Fatah has been doing better than has Hamas. While the PA has been and remains short of cash, its initiative at the UN to raise itself to non-member state status looks like it will succeed. Meanwhile, Hamas has been forced to leave its long-time headquarters in Damascus, and the advent of a Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt has done nothing for Hamas. The border is still largely closed and worse yet for Hamas the Egyptians are destroying the smuggling tunnels that bring Hamas income and bring Gazans goods. So Hamas may have wanted to get back to center stage, reminding people that while the PA talks, it acts. The events of the last few days have, as Hamas must have liked, pushed the PA to the margins and made it seem irrelevant.

Second, Hamas commits acts of terror because it is a terrorist organization. By this I mean that no Hamas leader glories in collecting garbage in Gaza, or even in receiving the Emir of Qatars money when he visits. The glory comes in fighting, and killingbut since the last round with the Israelis in January 2009 Hamas has not only been very careful. It has also restrained other terrorist groups like Islamic Jihad from firing into Israel. This situation cannot be attractive to Hamass leaders, and they know they risk losing the loyalty of many young men in Gaza to other more active groups if it goes on for too long. So, they have decided to provoke a conflict.
---
http://blogs.cfr.org/abrams/2012/11/15/why-did-hamas-provoke-a-conflict/


----------



## eots

American_Jihad said:


> *Why Did Hamas Provoke a Conflict?*
> 
> by Elliott Abrams
> November 15, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a conflict now between Israel and Hamas because Hamas insisted on starting one. After relatively few rocket and mortar strikes into Israel in 2010 and 2011, Hamas increased the numbers strikingly this year, and finally fired more than 100 into Israel this past weekend. This was a deliberate effort by Hamas to elicit an Israeli response, for it was obvious that as the numbers grew any Israeli government would have to protect its population. One must assume that if Israel had not responded to the hundred rockets last weekend, Hamas would have upped the ante even more until it got what it wanted.
> The question is why. Why did Hamas want to provoke an Israeli attack?
> 
> I would offer two theories. First, in recent months the Palestinian Authority under Hamas&#8217;s enemies in Fatah has been doing better than has Hamas. While the PA has been and remains short of cash, its initiative at the UN to raise itself to &#8220;non-member state&#8221; status looks like it will succeed. Meanwhile, Hamas has been forced to leave its long-time headquarters in Damascus, and the advent of a Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt has done nothing for Hamas. The border is still largely closed and worse yet for Hamas the Egyptians are destroying the smuggling tunnels that bring Hamas income and bring Gazans goods. So Hamas may have wanted to get back to center stage, reminding people that while the PA talks, it acts. The events of the last few days have, as Hamas must have liked, pushed the PA to the margins and made it seem irrelevant.
> 
> Second, Hamas commits acts of terror because it is a terrorist organization. By this I mean that no Hamas leader glories in collecting garbage in Gaza, or even in receiving the Emir of Qatar&#8217;s money when he visits. The glory comes in fighting, and killing&#8211;but since the last round with the Israelis in January 2009 Hamas has not only been very careful. It has also restrained other terrorist groups like Islamic Jihad from firing into Israel. This situation cannot be attractive to Hamas&#8217;s leaders, and they know they risk losing the loyalty of many young men in Gaza to other more active groups if it goes on for too long. So, they have decided to provoke a conflict.
> ---
> http://blogs.cfr.org/abrams/2012/11/15/why-did-hamas-provoke-a-conflict/



*here is a hint*


----------



## American_Jihad

eots said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Did Hamas Provoke a Conflict?*
> 
> by Elliott Abrams
> November 15, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a conflict now between Israel and Hamas because Hamas insisted on starting one. After relatively few rocket and mortar strikes into Israel in 2010 and 2011, Hamas increased the numbers strikingly this year, and finally fired more than 100 into Israel this past weekend. This was a deliberate effort by Hamas to elicit an Israeli response, for it was obvious that as the numbers grew any Israeli government would have to protect its population. One must assume that if Israel had not responded to the hundred rockets last weekend, Hamas would have upped the ante even more until it got what it wanted.
> The question is why. Why did Hamas want to provoke an Israeli attack?
> 
> I would offer two theories. First, in recent months the Palestinian Authority under Hamass enemies in Fatah has been doing better than has Hamas. While the PA has been and remains short of cash, its initiative at the UN to raise itself to non-member state status looks like it will succeed. Meanwhile, Hamas has been forced to leave its long-time headquarters in Damascus, and the advent of a Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt has done nothing for Hamas. The border is still largely closed and worse yet for Hamas the Egyptians are destroying the smuggling tunnels that bring Hamas income and bring Gazans goods. So Hamas may have wanted to get back to center stage, reminding people that while the PA talks, it acts. The events of the last few days have, as Hamas must have liked, pushed the PA to the margins and made it seem irrelevant.
> 
> Second, Hamas commits acts of terror because it is a terrorist organization. By this I mean that no Hamas leader glories in collecting garbage in Gaza, or even in receiving the Emir of Qatars money when he visits. The glory comes in fighting, and killingbut since the last round with the Israelis in January 2009 Hamas has not only been very careful. It has also restrained other terrorist groups like Islamic Jihad from firing into Israel. This situation cannot be attractive to Hamass leaders, and they know they risk losing the loyalty of many young men in Gaza to other more active groups if it goes on for too long. So, they have decided to provoke a conflict.
> ---
> http://blogs.cfr.org/abrams/2012/11/15/why-did-hamas-provoke-a-conflict/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *here is a hint*
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIBKlVJCffQ]Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Testimony Clips - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS2t2e76o8I]Muslim girl quotes quran: jews are apes and pigs - YouTube[/ame]
*Little islamic beast​*


----------



## georgephillip

American_Jihad said:


> *Why Did Hamas Provoke a Conflict?*
> 
> by Elliott Abrams
> November 15, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a conflict now between Israel and Hamas because Hamas insisted on starting one. After relatively few rocket and mortar strikes into Israel in 2010 and 2011, Hamas increased the numbers strikingly this year, and finally fired more than 100 into Israel this past weekend. This was a deliberate effort by Hamas to elicit an Israeli response, for it was obvious that as the numbers grew any Israeli government would have to protect its population. One must assume that if Israel had not responded to the hundred rockets last weekend, Hamas would have upped the ante even more until it got what it wanted.
> The question is why. Why did Hamas want to provoke an Israeli attack?
> 
> I would offer two theories. First, in recent months the Palestinian Authority under Hamass enemies in Fatah has been doing better than has Hamas. While the PA has been and remains short of cash, its initiative at the UN to raise itself to non-member state status looks like it will succeed. Meanwhile, Hamas has been forced to leave its long-time headquarters in Damascus, and the advent of a Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt has done nothing for Hamas. The border is still largely closed and worse yet for Hamas the Egyptians are destroying the smuggling tunnels that bring Hamas income and bring Gazans goods. So Hamas may have wanted to get back to center stage, reminding people that while the PA talks, it acts. The events of the last few days have, as Hamas must have liked, pushed the PA to the margins and made it seem irrelevant.
> 
> Second, Hamas commits acts of terror because it is a terrorist organization. By this I mean that no Hamas leader glories in collecting garbage in Gaza, or even in receiving the Emir of Qatars money when he visits. The glory comes in fighting, and killingbut since the last round with the Israelis in January 2009 Hamas has not only been very careful. It has also restrained other terrorist groups like Islamic Jihad from firing into Israel. This situation cannot be attractive to Hamass leaders, and they know they risk losing the loyalty of many young men in Gaza to other more active groups if it goes on for too long. So, they have decided to provoke a conflict.
> ---
> http://blogs.cfr.org/abrams/2012/11/15/why-did-hamas-provoke-a-conflict/


*Why did Israel assassinate one of its subcontractors?*

"Ahmed Jabari was a subcontractor, in charge of maintaining Israel's security in Gaza. [...] Israel demanded of Hamas that it observe the truce in the south and enforce it on the multiplicity of armed organizations in the Gaza Strip. The man responsible for carrying out this policy was Ahmed Jabari.

"*In return for enforcing the quiet, which was never perfect*, Israel funded the Hamas regime through the flow of shekels in armored trucks to banks in Gaza, and continued to supply infrastructure and medical services to the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip. 

"Jabari was also Israel's partner in the negotiations for the release of Gilad Shalit; it was he who ensured the captive soldier's welfare and safety, and it was he who saw to Shalit's return home last fall."

Haaretz Jaabari | Al Akhbar English


----------



## MHunterB

irosie91 said:


> jos is playing     "thump on ape chest ----gutter thug"      again



What do you mean, Rosie?  That's what he's like at his very BEST.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Hamas Fires Rocket at Jerusalem, Hits Arab Village*​
November 20, 2012 
By Daniel Greenfield 

This is why most people assumed, wrongly, that no Arab group or nation would actually try to bomb Jerusalem. Not only does Jerusalem have a sizable Arab population but its close enough to any number of Arab Muslim villages in the West Bank that its hard to try and hit it, especially with poorly aimed rockets, without also hitting them.

Notably Hamas knows all this and simply does not care. Despite all the claims by its members about being eager to die for Al Quds, the Islamic name for Jerusalem, they have no problem firing rockets at Jerusalem that could just as easily hit their own Dome of the Rock or any of the Arab areas.

Hamas is out to do damage. Its out to score points by being able to brag about hitting Jerusalem. It does not care about Muslim casualties or damage to its so-called holy places.

---
Hamas Fires Rocket at Jerusalem, Hits Arab Village


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israel: Muslim students protest for Hamas in Jerusalem, until they have to flee Hamas rockets*

Posted by Robert on November 20, 2012 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IZbBCBt2s8o]Arab students whos protesting for the hamas, run away when the siren comes, result of hamas rockets - YouTube[/ame]

Oh, the irony.

Video thanks to Maggie's Farm, on which I ain't gonna work no more, where there is this explanation:

Israel is a democracy, with rights of free speech, petition, and protest. The tiny number of far left Israelis are vocal and often ally with radical Arab-Israelis. In this video today, they held a protest in Jerusalem against Israel bombing Gaza. Then, they scurried away as soon as the air raid siren went off that a rocket may come in from Gaza.

---
Israel: Muslim students protest for Hamas in Jerusalem, until they have to flee Hamas rockets - Jihad Watch


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *Why Did Hamas Provoke a Conflict?*
> 
> by Elliott Abrams
> November 15, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a conflict now between Israel and Hamas because Hamas insisted on starting one. After relatively few rocket and mortar strikes into Israel in 2010 and 2011, Hamas increased the numbers strikingly this year, and finally fired more than 100 into Israel this past weekend. This was a deliberate effort by Hamas to elicit an Israeli response, for it was obvious that as the numbers grew any Israeli government would have to protect its population. One must assume that if Israel had not responded to the hundred rockets last weekend, Hamas would have upped the ante even more until it got what it wanted.
> The question is why. Why did Hamas want to provoke an Israeli attack?
> 
> I would offer two theories. First, in recent months the Palestinian Authority under Hamass enemies in Fatah has been doing better than has Hamas. While the PA has been and remains short of cash, its initiative at the UN to raise itself to non-member state status looks like it will succeed. Meanwhile, Hamas has been forced to leave its long-time headquarters in Damascus, and the advent of a Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt has done nothing for Hamas. The border is still largely closed and worse yet for Hamas the Egyptians are destroying the smuggling tunnels that bring Hamas income and bring Gazans goods. So Hamas may have wanted to get back to center stage, reminding people that while the PA talks, it acts. The events of the last few days have, as Hamas must have liked, pushed the PA to the margins and made it seem irrelevant.
> 
> Second, Hamas commits acts of terror because it is a terrorist organization. By this I mean that no Hamas leader glories in collecting garbage in Gaza, or even in receiving the Emir of Qatars money when he visits. The glory comes in fighting, and killingbut since the last round with the Israelis in January 2009 Hamas has not only been very careful. It has also restrained other terrorist groups like Islamic Jihad from firing into Israel. This situation cannot be attractive to Hamass leaders, and they know they risk losing the loyalty of many young men in Gaza to other more active groups if it goes on for too long. So, they have decided to provoke a conflict.
> ---
> http://blogs.cfr.org/abrams/2012/11/15/why-did-hamas-provoke-a-conflict/



Indeed. The Palestinians started this war a hundred years ago when they went to Europe and attacked the Zionists.


----------



## irosie91

tinnie    the only palestinians that existed 100 years ago----were the jews who lived in the area of the OTTOMAN empire----that the romans renamed  'palestine'      ie mostly the old   Israel/judea-----once there few visited Europe-----why would the palestinian jews  attack european jews?-----100 years ago they were just beginning to try to defend against the ongoing arab muslim barbarity        try to remember a bit of history


----------



## P F Tinmore

irosie91 said:


> tinnie    the only palestinians that existed 100 years ago----were the jews who lived in the area of the OTTOMAN empire----that the romans renamed  'palestine'      ie mostly the old   Israel/judea-----once there few visited Europe-----why would the palestinian jews  attack european jews?-----100 years ago they were just beginning to try to defend against the ongoing arab muslim barbarity        try to remember a bit of history


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _Indeed. The Palestinians started this war a hundred years ago when they went to Europe and attacked the Zionists._


Nah, those alleged "palistinians" didn't know yet that "palestine" existed at all, of course.


----------



## Indofred

We have a rapidly changing situation in many middle eastern countries.
The very well armed Egypt is siding with it's allies in Gaza for the first time since the American funded dictator got kicked out and several other countries, all very well armed by the US of Arse, are shifting politically.
Most murdering governments last less than a hundred years, I really don't see Israel breaking the usual chain of events.


----------



## docmauser1

Indofred said:


> _The very well armed Egypt is siding with it's allies in Gaza_


Verbally, maybe.


Indofred said:


> _for the first time since the American funded dictator got kicked out_


Since Murzi stands to get $12 bln. of the US-EU "development" money, missing it is not an option, of course.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Deadly Israeli House*​
December 5, 2012 
By Daniel Greenfield

There are few weapons as deadly as the Israeli house. When its bricks and mortar are combined together, the house, whether it is one of those modest one-story hilltop affairs or a five-floor apartment building complete with hot and cold running water, becomes far more dangerous than anything green and glowing that comes out of the Iranian centrifuges.

Forget the cluster bomb and the mine, the poison gas shell and even tailored viruses. Iran can keep its nuclear bombs. They dont impress anyone in Europe or in Washington, DC. Genocide is equally not worthy of attention when in the presence of the fearsome weapon of terror that is an Israeli family of four moving into a new apartment downwind from Jerusalem.

Sudan may have built a small mountain of African corpses, but it cant expect to command the full and undivided attention of the world until it does something truly outrageous like building a house and filling it with Jews. Since the Sudanese Jews are as gone as the Jews of Egypt, Iraq, Syria and good old Afghanistan, the chances of Bashir the Butcher pulling off that trick are rather slim.

---
The Deadly Israeli House


----------



## proudveteran06

Jos said:


> But not in it's present form





Israel will never agree to Borders that the Arabs themselves have never Honored or Respected or allow " Right of Return".  It's that simple.   Again.... Tell us exactly what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate?"  Oh.... Keep forgetting.  There is NEVER an answer   lol


----------



## P F Tinmore

proudveteran06 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> But not in it's present form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will never agree to Borders that the Arabs themselves have never Honored or Respected or allow " Right of Return".  It's that simple.   Again.... Tell us exactly what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate?"  Oh.... Keep forgetting.  There is NEVER an answer   lol
Click to expand...


Negotiations is an Abbas fantasy.


----------



## Roudy

Her's another hint:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DaTjH4pqkdI]Arabs for Israel - Muslims for Israel - Dr.Tawfik Hamid - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip

proudveteran06 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> But not in it's present form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will never agree to Borders that the Arabs themselves have never Honored or Respected or allow " Right of Return".  It's that simple.   Again.... Tell us exactly what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate?"  Oh.... Keep forgetting.  There is NEVER an answer   lol
Click to expand...

*Blame those killer kosher houses, Golda.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

MHunterB said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> jos is playing     "thump on ape chest ----gutter thug"      again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, Rosie?  That's what he's like at his very BEST.
Click to expand...


Are you still handing out negative reps because you can't debate?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> _Blame those killer kosher houses, Golda._


Indeed, the dream of plundering them is still disturbing the arab mind.


----------



## eots

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Blame those killer kosher houses, Golda._
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the dream of plundering them is still disturbing the arab mind.
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqJ-JR_vBo0]THIS IS MY LAND - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## proudveteran06

georgephillip said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> But not in it's present form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will never agree to Borders that the Arabs themselves have never Honored or Respected or allow " Right of Return".  It's that simple.   Again.... Tell us exactly what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate?"  Oh.... Keep forgetting.  There is NEVER an answer   lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Blame those killer kosher houses, Golda.*
Click to expand...



Still no answer you Pro- Palestinian Kool- Aid Drinker.  There never is.  Haven't seen any Pro- Israeli poster on the Board refer to themselves as " The Chosen People".  Keep talking to yourself;  You will feel better


----------



## ima

*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*

Don't tell that to American Christians, they need it to get blown up so that Jesus can come back afterwards. The sooner, the better.


----------



## American_Jihad

*About the Next Israeli Government*

February 1, 2013 
By Caroline Glick

It is still difficult to assess how Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu will govern in his next government. The public has little interest in begging the Palestinians to return to negotiations. But then the Israeli public has rarely had much interest in pursuing fruitless deals with unreformed Palestinian terrorists. The only reason we continue to chase deals with them is because the US is obsessed with supporting Palestinian anti-Israel demands in the name of peace.

To a significant, if not necessarily determinative degree, whether the Palestinians will continue to be a salient issue in the coming years will be a function of events in the wider Arab world. The collapse of the Egyptian state, Syria&#8217;s civil war, and the potential collapse of the Hashemite monarchy in Jordan will all limit President Barack Obama&#8217;s ability to press Israel to give away land to the Palestinians.

At the same time, Netanyahu&#8217;s assault on his own political camp, starting with Likud and moving to Naftali Bennett and the Bayit Yehudi indicate that at a minimum, Netanyahu will do nothing to advance Israel&#8217;s position vis-à-vis the Palestinians. He is unlikely to permit significant new construction in Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria or significant Jewish building in Jerusalem. He is unlikely to undertake any democratic reforms in the Justice Ministry or the court system. He is unlikely to take any steps to boost Israel&#8217;s rights in Judea and Samaria or to undermine the terrorist-led Palestinian Authority.

Where the next government is likely to move ahead are in two other significant, if under-discussed areas: economic reform, and religious reform.

...

About the Next Israeli Government








...


----------



## proudveteran06

Jos said:


> But not in it's present form



No " 69" Borders or " Righr of Return" Deal with it


----------



## proudveteran06

P F Tinmore said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> But not in it's present form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will never agree to Borders that the Arabs themselves have never Honored or Respected or allow " Right of Return".  It's that simple.   Again.... Tell us exactly what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate?"  Oh.... Keep forgetting.  There is NEVER an answer   lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Negotiations is an Abbas fantasy.
Click to expand...


Abbas fantasy? He can negototiate if he wanted to Just name one thing he offered. You can't because he hasnt


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will never agree to Borders that the Arabs themselves have never Honored or Respected or allow " Right of Return".  It's that simple.   Again.... *Tell us exactly what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate?*"  Oh.... Keep forgetting.  There is NEVER an answer   lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiations is an Abbas fantasy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abbas fantasy? He can negototiate if he wanted to Just name one thing he offered. You can't because he hasnt
Click to expand...

Their best friends in Iran are building nukes and the Israelis should negotiate before that happens, because afterwards will not be a pretty sight, well, except for me, I'll be watching it on CNN from the comfort of my home.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiations is an Abbas fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas fantasy? He can negototiate if he wanted to Just name one thing he offered. You can't because he hasnt
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their best friends in Iran are building nukes and the Israelis should negotiate before that happens, because afterwards will not be a pretty sight, well, except for me, I'll be watching it on CNN from the comfort of my home.
Click to expand...


  I have posted many times what Abbas was offered. He was offered ALMOST everything he wanted.  When two or more parties " negotiate" about anything it's understood nobody is going to have everything their way 100%.  Not my fault if you can't comphrend English.  

  You do admit one think though; The Arabs are the Agressors, they will initiate WW 111 !    That's because they don't respect " International Law"    lol


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas fantasy? He can negototiate if he wanted to Just name one thing he offered. You can't because he hasnt
> 
> 
> 
> Their best friends in Iran are building nukes and the Israelis should negotiate before that happens, because afterwards will not be a pretty sight, well, except for me, I'll be watching it on CNN from the comfort of my home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have posted many times what Abbas was offered. He was offered ALMOST everything he wanted.  When two or more parties " negotiate" about anything it's understood nobody is going to have everything their way 100%.  Not my fault if you can't comphrend English.
> 
> You do admit one think though; The Arabs are the Agressors, they will initiate WW 111 !    That's because they don't respect " International Law"    lol
Click to expand...


Zionuts started the war and it never ended. It will likely ESCALATE into a nuclear war and possibly draw others in, starting WWIII. All from the original zionuts aggression.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their best friends in Iran are building nukes and the Israelis should negotiate before that happens, because afterwards will not be a pretty sight, well, except for me, I'll be watching it on CNN from the comfort of my home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted many times what Abbas was offered. He was offered ALMOST everything he wanted.  When two or more parties " negotiate" about anything it's understood nobody is going to have everything their way 100%.  Not my fault if you can't comphrend English.
> 
> You do admit one think though; The Arabs are the Agressors, they will initiate WW 111 !    That's because they don't respect " International Law"    lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zionuts started the war and it never ended. It will likely ESCALATE into a nuclear war and possibly draw others in, starting WWIII. All from the original zionuts aggression.
Click to expand...


  Tell us how the Israelis started it and exactly what Abbas is doing to help the " negotiations".  I have asked you this several times and of course there is nobody home.  When two or more parties " negotiate" about anything in life everyone has to to their part.

         Why should Iran get involved threatening to blow Israel off the map?  That is not Arab Agression?   lol  Leave it to a Pro- Palestinian Psycho Kool- Aid Drinker


----------



## American_Jihad

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiations is an Abbas fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas fantasy? He can negototiate if he wanted to Just name one thing he offered. You can't because he hasnt
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their best friends in Iran are building nukes and the Israelis should negotiate before that happens, because afterwards will not be a pretty sight, well, except for me, I'll be watching it on CNN from the comfort of my home.
Click to expand...


If iran nukes Israel it would kill more arabs and palies than Jews...

Hey ima I fig out your name, ignorant moronic americon or ima ssob...

I hope Israel smokes iran like a cheap cigar and sends the twelfth imam to hell in a well...


----------



## proudveteran06

American_Jihad said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas fantasy? He can negototiate if he wanted to Just name one thing he offered. You can't because he hasnt
> 
> 
> 
> Their best friends in Iran are building nukes and the Israelis should negotiate before that happens, because afterwards will not be a pretty sight, well, except for me, I'll be watching it on CNN from the comfort of my home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If iran nukes Israel it would kill more arabs and palies than Jews...
> 
> Hey ima I fig out your name, ignorant moronic americon or ima ssob...
> 
> I hope Israel smokes iran like a cheap cigar and sends the twelfth imam to hell in a well...
Click to expand...


 Have to consider the source.  The Pro Palestinian Kool- Aid drinker says the Palestinians are doing their part to " negotiate" yet when asked for links to her info of course there is no response


----------



## American_Jihad

proudveteran06 said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their best friends in Iran are building nukes and the Israelis should negotiate before that happens, because afterwards will not be a pretty sight, well, except for me, I'll be watching it on CNN from the comfort of my home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If iran nukes Israel it would kill more arabs and palies than Jews...
> 
> Hey ima I fig out your name, ignorant moronic americon or ima ssob...
> 
> I hope Israel smokes iran like a cheap cigar and sends the twelfth imam to hell in a well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have to consider the source.  The Pro Palestinian Kool- Aid drinker says the Palestinians are doing their part to " negotiate" yet when asked for links to her info of course there is no response
Click to expand...


She's bizzy bringing in some rockets...


----------



## yidnar

i look for Israel to put a beat down on Iran soon.


----------



## Billo_Really

yidnar said:


> i look for Israel to put a beat down on Iran soon.


And that's a perfect example of how Israel creates its enemies out of thin air.  

Because of shit like that!

You wanna go bomb a country that has never attacked you, because you don't care for some of the things they say.


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> If iran nukes Israel it would kill more arabs and palies than Jews...
> 
> Hey ima I fig out your name, ignorant moronic americon or ima ssob...
> 
> I hope Israel smokes iran like a cheap cigar and sends the twelfth imam to hell in a well...


You're getting a little ahead of yourself there, skippy. You first need to prove they're making nukes, before we can start talking about them using nukes.  It's pretty silly talking about them using nukes, when the last 3 NIE's and Israel's own security chief have said they're not making any.


----------



## irosie91

"NUKES"   is not the issue-----it is a smoke screen.     In recent history 
the islamo nazi pigs have genocided more than 20 million people out of 
existence without  "NUKES" ----in their relatively short history---14 
centuries they genocided    HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS     It is not 
all that hard to kill people----even islamo nazis can do it----it is a 
matter of   WILL  ----and Iran is willing.    The "god' of Iran wants 
it


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

irosie91 said:


> "NUKES"   is not the issue-----it is a smoke screen.     In recent history
> the islamo nazi pigs have genocided more than 20 million people out of
> existence without  "NUKES" ----in their relatively short history---14
> centuries they genocided    HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS     It is not
> all that hard to kill people----even islamo nazis can do it----it is a
> matter of   WILL  ----and Iran is willing.    The "god' of Iran wants
> it



I believe.  I'd have to fact check it to find out but I believe Islam has killed more than all of communism.  That is pretty horrific.  - Jeri


----------



## irosie91

Jeremiah said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "NUKES"   is not the issue-----it is a smoke screen.     In recent history
> the islamo nazi pigs have genocided more than 20 million people out of
> existence without  "NUKES" ----in their relatively short history---14
> centuries they genocided    HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS     It is not
> all that hard to kill people----even islamo nazis can do it----it is a
> matter of   WILL  ----and Iran is willing.    The "god' of Iran wants
> it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe.  I'd have to fact check it to find out but I believe Islam has killed more than all of communism.  That is pretty horrific.  - Jeri
Click to expand...



yes  ---but the communist  genocide history is shorter     ----and hopefully ---OVER.
   islam is still working on its numbers          Sad but true---even Iran was a victim 
   of islamic genocide       It is not entirely clear to me----I never googled---but 
   I believe that  Iran was subjected to two onslaughts-----both arab and the 
   minions of  GENGHIS KHAN  <<< a really big contributor to that genocide 
   score    (some muslims try to deny his religious affiliation)


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

irosie91 said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "NUKES"   is not the issue-----it is a smoke screen.     In recent history
> the islamo nazi pigs have genocided more than 20 million people out of
> existence without  "NUKES" ----in their relatively short history---14
> centuries they genocided    HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS     It is not
> all that hard to kill people----even islamo nazis can do it----it is a
> matter of   WILL  ----and Iran is willing.    The "god' of Iran wants
> it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe.  I'd have to fact check it to find out but I believe Islam has killed more than all of communism.  That is pretty horrific.  - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yes  ---but the communist  genocide history is shorter     ----and hopefully ---OVER.
> islam is still working on its numbers          Sad but true---even Iran was a victim
> of islamic genocide       It is not entirely clear to me----I never googled---but
> I believe that  Iran was subjected to two onslaughts-----both arab and the
> minions of  GENGHIS KHAN  <<< a really big contributor to that genocide
> score    (some muslims try to deny his religious affiliation)
Click to expand...


true.  It is shorter.  Genghis Khan is a good point also.  - Jeri


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

loinboy said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> i look for Israel to put a beat down on Iran soon.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's a perfect example of how Israel creates its enemies out of thin air.
> 
> Because of shit like that!
> 
> You wanna go bomb a country that has never attacked you, because you don't care for some of the things they say.
Click to expand...


As the leader did during a speech to the 57 islamic nation conference in Malaysia?   Is that a big no comment?


----------



## irosie91

Hezbollah is iran------it exists for the purpose of DESTROYING ISRAEL    
The statement   "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL"   is truly idiotic---
its like saying   "TAKING OUT A CONTRACT"     on your well insured
   husband ----is not a crime


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

irosie91 said:


> Hezbollah is iran------it exists for the purpose of DESTROYING ISRAEL
> The statement   "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL"   is truly idiotic---
> its like saying   "TAKING OUT A CONTRACT"     on your well insured
> husband ----is not a crime



yikes!


----------



## irosie91

Jeremiah said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah is iran------it exists for the purpose of DESTROYING ISRAEL
> The statement   "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL"   is truly idiotic---
> its like saying   "TAKING OUT A CONTRACT"     on your well insured
> husband ----is not a crime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yikes!
Click to expand...


JEREMIAH ...      IT IS A CRIME ----do not get the wrong idea---
                               IT IS A CRIME!!!!!
                                           <control yourself>


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

irosie91 said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah is iran------it exists for the purpose of DESTROYING ISRAEL
> The statement   "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL"   is truly idiotic---
> its like saying   "TAKING OUT A CONTRACT"     on your well insured
> husband ----is not a crime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yikes!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JEREMIAH ...      IT IS A CRIME ----do not get the wrong idea---
> IT IS A CRIME!!!!!
> <control yourself>
Click to expand...


Phew!  Anyone got any smelling salts? 

I'm practicing at being funny, Rosie.  I've been told I have no sense of humor!  - Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

I guess that is an affirmative on that one?  lol....


----------



## Roudy

Jeremiah said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JEREMIAH ...      IT IS A CRIME ----do not get the wrong idea---
> IT IS A CRIME!!!!!
> <control yourself>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Phew!  Anyone got any smelling salts?
> 
> I'm practicing at being funny, Rosie.  I've been told I have no sense of humor!  - Jeremiah
Click to expand...

I read an article that some smelling salts are extremely hallucinogenic and in some cases deadly.  Maybe that's what some of these Jew hating lunatics are on?  LOL


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Roudy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> JEREMIAH ...      IT IS A CRIME ----do not get the wrong idea---
> IT IS A CRIME!!!!!
> <control yourself>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phew!  Anyone got any smelling salts?
> 
> I'm practicing at being funny, Rosie.  I've been told I have no sense of humor!  - Jeremiah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read an article that some smelling salts are extremely hallucinogenic and in some cases deadly.  Maybe that's what some of these Jew hating lunatics are on?  LOL
Click to expand...


I did not know that!  That is an interesting bit of news!  thanks, I've never actually used them but as a southern woman I am supposed to call for them when I'm about to faint I've heard.  Just covering my tracks here.  - Jeri


----------



## irosie91

Jeremiah said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Phew!  Anyone got any smelling salts?
> 
> I'm practicing at being funny, Rosie.  I've been told I have no sense of humor!  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> I read an article that some smelling salts are extremely hallucinogenic and in some cases deadly.  Maybe that's what some of these Jew hating lunatics are on?  LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not know that!  That is an interesting bit of news!  thanks, I've never actually used them but as a southern woman I am supposed to call for them when I'm about to faint I've heard.  Just covering my tracks here.  - Jeri
Click to expand...


oh gee---medical history    I MUST GOOGLE    I to not even know what 
"smelling salts"   consist of----obviously some sort of NOXIOUS  wake up 
scent                  excuse me while I google        uhm   for the record---the 
sense of smell is so IMPORTANT   in the developement of the BRAIN--- that 
large parts of the brain are DEVOTED   ------in "ONTOGENY"  to the issue of 
"SMELL"         more later----I am intrigued---smelling salts       SMELL LIKE 
LIGHT ----ALERTS THE ENTER FOREBRAIN    it ---it wakes you up


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

irosie91 said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read an article that some smelling salts are extremely hallucinogenic and in some cases deadly.  Maybe that's what some of these Jew hating lunatics are on?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not know that!  That is an interesting bit of news!  thanks, I've never actually used them but as a southern woman I am supposed to call for them when I'm about to faint I've heard.  Just covering my tracks here.  - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh gee---medical history    I MUST GOOGLE    I to not even know what
> "smelling salts"   consist of----obviously some sort of NOXIOUS  wake up
> scent                  excuse me while I google        uhm   for the record---the
> sense of smell is so IMPORTANT   in the developement of the BRAIN--- that
> large parts of the brain are DEVOTED   ------in "ONTOGENY"  to the issue of
> "SMELL"         more later----I am intrigued---smelling salts       SMELL LIKE
> LIGHT ----ALERTS THE ENTER FOREBRAIN    it ---it wakes you up
Click to expand...


I wonder what was in that stuff!  It had to be pretty powerful to wake someone up!


----------



## irosie91

Jeremiah said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not know that!  That is an interesting bit of news!  thanks, I've never actually used them but as a southern woman I am supposed to call for them when I'm about to faint I've heard.  Just covering my tracks here.  - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh gee---medical history    I MUST GOOGLE    I to not even know what
> "smelling salts"   consist of----obviously some sort of NOXIOUS  wake up
> scent                  excuse me while I google        uhm   for the record---the
> sense of smell is so IMPORTANT   in the developement of the BRAIN--- that
> large parts of the brain are DEVOTED   ------in "ONTOGENY"  to the issue of
> "SMELL"         more later----I am intrigued---smelling salts       SMELL LIKE
> LIGHT ----ALERTS THE ENTER FOREBRAIN    it ---it wakes you up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder what was in that stuff!  It had to be pretty powerful to wake someone up!
Click to expand...



AMMONIA    which is more an IRRITANT to the nerve endings of olfactory tract than an 
AROMATIC   (like  perfumes and coffee and chocolate  etc)       wakes up a huge portion 
of the brain----up front and----at he base------it is like a NOXIOUS stimulation  ---


----------



## Billo_Really

irosie91 said:


> Hezbollah is iran------it exists for the purpose of DESTROYING ISRAEL
> The statement   "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL"   is truly idiotic---
> its like saying   "TAKING OUT A CONTRACT"     on your well insured
> husband ----is not a crime


Iran hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years. And just because they support Hezbollah, does not mean they ARE, Hezbollah.  If that's the kind of logic you want to use, then we can say, Israel is Hamas, because they initially provided material support to them when they came into existance.

And the only reason "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL" is idiotic, is because you're an idiot. I'm sorry, you cannot create your own reality and pass that off as the truth.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah is iran------it exists for the purpose of DESTROYING ISRAEL
> The statement   "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL"   is truly idiotic---
> its like saying   "TAKING OUT A CONTRACT"     on your well insured
> husband ----is not a crime
> 
> 
> 
> Iran hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years. And just because they support Hezbollah, does not mean they ARE, Hezbollah.  If that's the kind of logic you want to use, then we can say, Israel is Hamas, because they initially provided material support to them when they came into existance.
> 
> And the only reason "IRAN DID NOT ATTACK ISRAEL" is idiotic, is because you're an idiot. I'm sorry, you cannot create your own reality and pass that off as the truth.
Click to expand...


Hezbollah was BIRTHED - CREATED IN IRAN - Brilliant!  Furthermore, Iran has been openly plotting and conspiring to wipe Israel off the face of the earth for decades now.  They financed Hezbollah - the weapons being sent to Hamas, they are fully complicit in actively working towards the destruction of Israel - on a major scale.  Rosies analogy made PERFECT SENSE and the only idiocy I am reading here is coming from YOUR PEN, not hers!  - Jeremiah


----------



## Billo_Really

Jeremiah said:


> Hezbollah was BIRTHED - CREATED IN IRAN - Brilliant!  Furthermore, Iran has been openly plotting and conspiring to wipe Israel off the face of the earth for decades now.  They financed Hezbollah - the weapons being sent to Hamas, they are fully complicit in actively working towards the destruction of Israel - on a major scale.  Rosies analogy made PERFECT SENSE and the only idiocy I am reading here is coming from YOUR PEN, not hers!  - Jeremiah


Hezbollah, is a member of the Lebanese governmet.  Iran, is a completely separate country.  And sending arms to Hamas, is none of Israel's god-damn business!  Gazan's have a right to defend themselves.  And there is nothing wrong,   sending them weapons to do that with.

As far as the "wipe off the map" bullshit, that has been completely debunked and is nothing more than dumbass, zionist propaganda.  And if someone actually does attack them, it will be because the Israeli's deserves it!  You can't run around shooting whomever you fuckin' please, without someone eventually shooting back.  Israel is the one intiating all the hostilities in that area.

But this is all a moot point.  Even if someone wanted to "wipe them out", there isn't a single country in the ME that has the military capability of pulling that off.  Now, if the Israeli's provoke the Russian's, that's a different matter.  Russia can make that country glow in the dark, so Israel shouldn't be taking pot shots at them, like they do Palestinian fisherman and farmers.


----------



## skye

Hezbollah  is a proxy of Iran.

Everybody knows that.


----------



## Billo_Really

skye said:


> Hezbollah  is a proxy of Iran.
> 
> Everybody knows that.


So what!  Neither one have attacked Israel.


----------



## skye

loinboy said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah  is a proxy of Iran.
> 
> Everybody knows that.
> 
> 
> 
> So what!  Neither one have attacked Israel.
Click to expand...



you can't be serious.... they do it all the time.... just now ..."The Bulgarian government said on Tuesday that two of the people behind a deadly bombing attack that targeted an Israeli tour bus six months ago were believed to be members of the military wing of the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah."

Hezbollah is a terrorist group... is this news to you???? are you living under a rock?



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/06/w...es-hezbollah-in-deadly-israeli-bus-blast.html


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

irosie91 said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh gee---medical history    I MUST GOOGLE    I to not even know what
> "smelling salts"   consist of----obviously some sort of NOXIOUS  wake up
> scent                  excuse me while I google        uhm   for the record---the
> sense of smell is so IMPORTANT   in the developement of the BRAIN--- that
> large parts of the brain are DEVOTED   ------in "ONTOGENY"  to the issue of
> "SMELL"         more later----I am intrigued---smelling salts       SMELL LIKE
> LIGHT ----ALERTS THE ENTER FOREBRAIN    it ---it wakes you up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what was in that stuff!  It had to be pretty powerful to wake someone up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> AMMONIA    which is more an IRRITANT to the nerve endings of olfactory tract than an
> AROMATIC   (like  perfumes and coffee and chocolate  etc)       wakes up a huge portion
> of the brain----up front and----at he base------it is like a NOXIOUS stimulation  ---[/QUOTE
> 
> This evening I was thinking this over and came to the conclusion it must have Ammonia!  I mentioned this to someone and they said not possible.   I am thinking, why isn't it?  You are not drinking it, merely someone putting the smell of it in front of you!  It would surely wake you up.  Thanks!
Click to expand...


----------



## Connery

loinboy said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah  is a proxy of Iran.
> 
> Everybody knows that.
> 
> 
> 
> So what!  Neither one have attacked Israel.
Click to expand...


Iran supplied weapons to Hamas who launched them at Israel


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Roudy

loinboy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah was BIRTHED - CREATED IN IRAN - Brilliant!  Furthermore, Iran has been openly plotting and conspiring to wipe Israel off the face of the earth for decades now.  They financed Hezbollah - the weapons being sent to Hamas, they are fully complicit in actively working towards the destruction of Israel - on a major scale.  Rosies analogy made PERFECT SENSE and the only idiocy I am reading here is coming from YOUR PEN, not hers!  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah, is a member of the Lebanese governmet.  Iran, is a completely separate country.  And sending arms to Hamas, is none of Israel's god-damn business!  Gazan's have a right to defend themselves.  And there is nothing wrong,   sending them weapons to do that with.
> 
> As far as the "wipe off the map" bullshit, that has been completely debunked and is nothing more than dumbass, zionist propaganda.  And if someone actually does attack them, it will be because the Israeli's deserves it!  You can't run around shooting whomever you fuckin' please, without someone eventually shooting back.  Israel is the one intiating all the hostilities in that area.
> 
> But this is all a moot point.  Even if someone wanted to "wipe them out", there isn't a single country in the ME that has the military capability of pulling that off.  Now, if the Israeli's provoke the Russian's, that's a different matter.  Russia can make that country glow in the dark, so Israel shouldn't be taking pot shots at them, like they do Palestinian fisherman and farmers.
Click to expand...

Debunked my ass. It's not even one speech, it's a thousand speeches given over a period of decades starting with Khomieni himself, and repeated by almost every leader and over and over, you fucking moron. You really need to stop believing and repeating what these bullshit anti Semitic conspiracy sites say.  Otherwise continue looking like an ignorant fool.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Roudy said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah was BIRTHED - CREATED IN IRAN - Brilliant!  Furthermore, Iran has been openly plotting and conspiring to wipe Israel off the face of the earth for decades now.  They financed Hezbollah - the weapons being sent to Hamas, they are fully complicit in actively working towards the destruction of Israel - on a major scale.  Rosies analogy made PERFECT SENSE and the only idiocy I am reading here is coming from YOUR PEN, not hers!  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah, is a member of the Lebanese governmet.  Iran, is a completely separate country.  And sending arms to Hamas, is none of Israel's god-damn business!  Gazan's have a right to defend themselves.  And there is nothing wrong,   sending them weapons to do that with.
> 
> As far as the "wipe off the map" bullshit, that has been completely debunked and is nothing more than dumbass, zionist propaganda.  And if someone actually does attack them, it will be because the Israeli's deserves it!  You can't run around shooting whomever you fuckin' please, without someone eventually shooting back.  Israel is the one intiating all the hostilities in that area.
> 
> But this is all a moot point.  Even if someone wanted to "wipe them out", there isn't a single country in the ME that has the military capability of pulling that off.  Now, if the Israeli's provoke the Russian's, that's a different matter.  Russia can make that country glow in the dark, so Israel shouldn't be taking pot shots at them, like they do Palestinian fisherman and farmers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked my ass. It's not even one speech, it's a thousand speeches given over a period of decades starting with Khomieni himself, and repeated by almost every leader and over and over, you fucking moron. You really need to stop believing and repeating what these bullshit anti Semitic conspiracy sites say.  Otherwise continue looking like an ignorant fool.
Click to expand...


He has good reading material here if he will just open his mind up to hear the facts.


----------



## Roudy

Jeremiah said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah, is a member of the Lebanese governmet.  Iran, is a completely separate country.  And sending arms to Hamas, is none of Israel's god-damn business!  Gazan's have a right to defend themselves.  And there is nothing wrong,   sending them weapons to do that with.
> 
> As far as the "wipe off the map" bullshit, that has been completely debunked and is nothing more than dumbass, zionist propaganda.  And if someone actually does attack them, it will be because the Israeli's deserves it!  You can't run around shooting whomever you fuckin' please, without someone eventually shooting back.  Israel is the one intiating all the hostilities in that area.
> 
> But this is all a moot point.  Even if someone wanted to "wipe them out", there isn't a single country in the ME that has the military capability of pulling that off.  Now, if the Israeli's provoke the Russian's, that's a different matter.  Russia can make that country glow in the dark, so Israel shouldn't be taking pot shots at them, like they do Palestinian fisherman and farmers.
> 
> 
> 
> Debunked my ass. It's not even one speech, it's a thousand speeches given over a period of decades starting with Khomieni himself, and repeated by almost every leader and over and over, you fucking moron. You really need to stop believing and repeating what these bullshit anti Semitic conspiracy sites say.  Otherwise continue looking like an ignorant fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He has good reading material here if he will just open his mind up to hear the facts.
Click to expand...

Anybody who actually believes that Iran doesn't want to destroy Israel is beyond help.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

loinboy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah was BIRTHED - CREATED IN IRAN - Brilliant!  Furthermore, Iran has been openly plotting and conspiring to wipe Israel off the face of the earth for decades now.  They financed Hezbollah - the weapons being sent to Hamas, they are fully complicit in actively working towards the destruction of Israel - on a major scale.  Rosies analogy made PERFECT SENSE and the only idiocy I am reading here is coming from YOUR PEN, not hers!  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah, is a member of the Lebanese governmet.  Iran, is a completely separate country.  And sending arms to Hamas, is none of Israel's god-damn business!  Gazan's have a right to defend themselves.  And there is nothing wrong,   sending them weapons to do that with.
> 
> As far as the "wipe off the map" bullshit, that has been completely debunked and is nothing more than dumbass, zionist propaganda.  And if someone actually does attack them, it will be because the Israeli's deserves it!  You can't run around shooting whomever you fuckin' please, without someone eventually shooting back.  Israel is the one intiating all the hostilities in that area.
> 
> But this is all a moot point.  Even if someone wanted to "wipe them out", there isn't a single country in the ME that has the military capability of pulling that off.  Now, if the Israeli's provoke the Russian's, that's a different matter.  Russia can make that country glow in the dark, so Israel shouldn't be taking pot shots at them, like they do Palestinian fisherman and farmers.
Click to expand...


I am well aware that Hezbollah has infiltrated the Lebonese Government.  So what? What does that have to do with the fact that the terror group was birthed in Iran and she's been financing them ever since?  Do you not recall the Iranians first calling the meeting in the 70's ----> calling the OPEC nations to rally round to wage war against Israel?  Using the oil embargo to blackmail the west into putting the boycott on Israel?  Just how much do you remember about the history of Hezbollah?  This is how the Iranians have gotten away with much of their nonsense for decades and it is time to put an end to it.   I believe those plans are in the making now.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Roudy said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Debunked my ass. It's not even one speech, it's a thousand speeches given over a period of decades starting with Khomieni himself, and repeated by almost every leader and over and over, you fucking moron. You really need to stop believing and repeating what these bullshit anti Semitic conspiracy sites say.  Otherwise continue looking like an ignorant fool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has good reading material here if he will just open his mind up to hear the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anybody who actually believes that Iran doesn't want to destroy Israel is beyond help.
Click to expand...


True.


----------



## Beria

They will survive or the world will not survive !


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Beria said:


> They will survive or the world will not survive !



I take it you are referring to Israel and to that I say, Amen!


----------



## American_Jihad

*Why Israel Is the Victim*

February 12, 2013 
By David Horowitz 

Israel, the only democracy and tolerant society in the Middle East, is surrounded by Muslim states that have sworn to destroy it and have conducted a genocidal propaganda campaign against the Jews, promising to finish the job that Hitler started. A global wave of Jew-hatred, fomented by Muslim propaganda and left-wing anti-Semitism, has spread through Europe and the United Nations and made Israel a pariah nation. David Horowitzs classic Why Israel Is the Victim, now updated in the pamphlet below, sets the record straight about the Middle East conflict. In addition to restoring the historical record   a chronicle  of obsessive aggressions first by Arab nationalists and then by Muslim jihadists, this pamphlet brings the story up to date by showing the systematic way in which the fanatical Islamic parties, Hamas and Hezbollah, sponsored by Iran, have subverted peace in the Middle East.

...

Why Israel Is the Victim


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Nazi Roots of the Boycott-Israel Movement*

February 19, 2013 
By Steven Plaut

The so-called BDS movement is nothing less than a poorly-disguised campaign of bigotry and aggression against Jews by anti-Semites and jihadists.

...

The latest manifestation of Boycott-the-Jews anti-Semitism is in the campus BDS movement.  Like the previous boycotts, the newer BDS is nothing more than a campaign of economic warfare and aggression against Jews.  The main aggressors these days are small groups of campus anti-Semites and brownshirts from the Far Left and the Far Right, joined by Islamofascists.   The recent campus Day of Anti-Semitic Hatred at Brooklyn College was just the tip of the swastika, and was thoroughly denounced by Alan Dershowitz and others.   The same university administrators who would order in the state troopers to prevent any conference on the genetic inferiority of black folks or on the mental deficiencies of homosexuals are the first to defend academic pogroms against Jews in the name of freedom of speech.  Can campus Holocaust Denial Rallies be far behind?  You can see a leading British BDS advocate posing in front of an Arab swastika, used by the Syrian neo-Nazi group, the SSNP, here.   The resemblance to Judith Butler and her recent appearance at the Brooklyn College Hatefest is, in the immortal words of Yoggi Berra, too coincidental to be a coincidence.

...

Its front page message is worth citing:

_BDS-ers come from the goosestepping Neo-Nazi Right, from the bedwetting radical Left, from the anarchist anarcho-fascist movements, from the various front groups for the International Solidarity Movement or ISM (which stands for I Support Murderers).   BDS is the official mantra of the anti-Semitic vermin and their genocidal fellow travelers, who are attempting to get the world to boycott Israel. The BDS scum consist of anti-Jewish racists seeking the annihilation of Israel and strive for a second Holocaust of the Jewish people. They work to achieve this while pretending that they think Israel mistreats Arabs. If they had been alive in the 1930s and 1940s, they would all have been participating in the German movement to boycott and divest from Jews._

...

But youve got to hand it to the boycotters.  They hate Jews so much that they want Jews harmed even if the campaign also harms Arabs.  After all, Arabs are nothing more than an instance in collateral damage in the holy war of aggression and jihad against the Jews.  In the view of the BDSholes, Arabs never are entitled to any human rights protection in Arab countries.  Arabs need protection only when this serves to undermine, endanger, and demonize the Jews.   In all other cases, let them eat stale pita!

The Nazi Roots of the Boycott-Israel Movement


----------



## Billo_Really

Jeremiah said:


> I am well aware that Hezbollah has infiltrated the Lebonese Government.  So what? What does that have to do with the fact that the terror group was birthed in Iran and she's been financing them ever since?  Do you not recall the Iranians first calling the meeting in the 70's ----> calling the OPEC nations to rally round to wage war against Israel?  Using the oil embargo to blackmail the west into putting the boycott on Israel?  Just how much do you remember about the history of Hezbollah?  This is how the Iranians have gotten away with much of their nonsense for decades and it is time to put an end to it.   I believe those plans are in the making now.


The last I looked, the US and Israel are the two country's running around the world, making up bullshit reasons, to attack sovereign nations.


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> *The Nazi Roots of the Boycott-Israel Movement*
> 
> February 19, 2013
> By Steven Plaut
> 
> The so-called BDS movement is nothing less than a poorly-disguised campaign of bigotry and aggression against Jews by anti-Semites and jihadists.
> 
> ...
> 
> The latest manifestation of Boycott-the-Jews anti-Semitism is in the campus BDS movement.  Like the previous boycotts, the newer BDS is nothing more than a campaign of economic warfare and aggression against Jews.  The main aggressors these days are small groups of campus anti-Semites and brownshirts from the Far Left and the Far Right, joined by Islamofascists.   The recent campus Day of Anti-Semitic Hatred at Brooklyn College was just the tip of the swastika, and was thoroughly denounced by Alan Dershowitz and others.   The same university administrators who would order in the state troopers to prevent any conference on the genetic inferiority of black folks or on the mental deficiencies of homosexuals are the first to defend academic pogroms against Jews in the name of freedom of speech.  Can campus Holocaust Denial Rallies be far behind?  You can see a leading British BDS advocate posing in front of an Arab swastika, used by the Syrian neo-Nazi group, the SSNP, here.   The resemblance to Judith Butler and her recent appearance at the Brooklyn College Hatefest is, in the immortal words of Yoggi Berra, too coincidental to be a coincidence.
> 
> ...
> 
> Its front page message is worth citing:
> 
> _BDS-ers come from the goosestepping Neo-Nazi Right, from the bedwetting radical Left, from the anarchist anarcho-fascist movements, from the various front groups for the International Solidarity Movement or ISM (which stands for I Support Murderers).   BDS is the official mantra of the anti-Semitic vermin and their genocidal fellow travelers, who are attempting to get the world to boycott Israel. The BDS scum consist of anti-Jewish racists seeking the annihilation of Israel and strive for a second Holocaust of the Jewish people. They work to achieve this while pretending that they think Israel mistreats Arabs. If they had been alive in the 1930s and 1940s, they would all have been participating in the German movement to boycott and divest from Jews._
> 
> ...
> 
> But youve got to hand it to the boycotters.  They hate Jews so much that they want Jews harmed even if the campaign also harms Arabs.  After all, Arabs are nothing more than an instance in collateral damage in the holy war of aggression and jihad against the Jews.  In the view of the BDSholes, Arabs never are entitled to any human rights protection in Arab countries.  Arabs need protection only when this serves to undermine, endanger, and demonize the Jews.   In all other cases, let them eat stale pita!
> 
> The Nazi Roots of the Boycott-Israel Movement


The BDS movement is an economic boycott of Israeli products because of their inhuman and illegal treatment of the Palestinian's.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Debunked my ass. It's not even one speech, it's a thousand speeches given over a period of decades starting with Khomieni himself, and repeated by almost every leader and over and over, you fucking moron. You really need to stop believing and repeating what these bullshit anti Semitic conspiracy sites say.  Otherwise continue looking like an ignorant fool.


Khomieni's the only one who said it.

Everything else, is just your bullshit translation deficiencies.


----------



## irosie91

In  1932----the isa respecting   ADOLF ABU ALI    came to political power  ---seven years 
after publishing the sequel to the isa-respecting
Koran      Jews objected----but their concerns 
were termed   "WAR MONGERING"  by the 
Isa respecters of the world and still are so 
described


----------



## ima

Connery said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hezbollah  is a proxy of Iran.
> 
> Everybody knows that.
> 
> 
> 
> So what!  Neither one have attacked Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Iran supplied weapons to Hamas who launched them at Israel
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...


And the US supplies Israel with money and weapons so they can attack arabs.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what!  Neither one have attacked Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran supplied weapons to Hamas who launched them at Israel
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the US supplies Israel with money and weapons so they can attack arabs.
Click to expand...


  Another Pro- Palestinian lie. The U.S. supplies Israel with money and weapons so Israel can defend itself against the Arabs who vow to destroy her .


----------



## toastman

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iran supplied weapons to Hamas who launched them at Israel
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the US supplies Israel with money and weapons so they can attack arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie. The U.S. supplies Israel with money and weapons so Israel can defend itself against the Arabs who vow to destroy her .
Click to expand...


You're talking to a guy who constantly says Israel will be nuked soon lolololol. I think he's like 14 years old or something


----------



## Billo_Really

proudveteran06 said:


> Another Pro- Palestinian lie. The U.S. supplies Israel with money and weapons so Israel can defend itself against the Arabs who vow to destroy her .


An occupational force, cannot claim self-defense.


----------



## Billo_Really

Connery said:


> Iran supplied weapons to Hamas who launched them at Israel


To resist the belligerant occupation of their land by a foreign force.


----------



## ima

toastman said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the US supplies Israel with money and weapons so they can attack arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie. The U.S. supplies Israel with money and weapons so Israel can defend itself against the Arabs who vow to destroy her .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're talking to a guy who constantly says Israel will be nuked soon lolololol. I think he's like 14 years old or something
Click to expand...


I wish I was 14, thanks for the compliment. But I've said that Israel should use this time as the superior and occupyer force to make peace, or else risk getting nuked down the road. Soon? maybe. Probably not for a few years still. And it's only a fool who completely discounts the possibility. I guess that would be you 2.


----------



## American_Jihad

loinboy said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Nazi Roots of the Boycott-Israel Movement*
> 
> February 19, 2013
> By Steven Plaut
> 
> The so-called BDS movement is nothing less than a poorly-disguised campaign of bigotry and aggression against Jews by anti-Semites and jihadists.
> 
> ...
> 
> The latest manifestation of Boycott-the-Jews anti-Semitism is in the campus BDS movement.  Like the previous boycotts, the newer BDS is nothing more than a campaign of economic warfare and aggression against Jews.  The main aggressors these days are small groups of campus anti-Semites and brownshirts from the Far Left and the Far Right, joined by Islamofascists.   The recent campus Day of Anti-Semitic Hatred at Brooklyn College was just the tip of the swastika, and was thoroughly denounced by Alan Dershowitz and others.   The same university administrators who would order in the state troopers to prevent any conference on the genetic inferiority of black folks or on the mental deficiencies of homosexuals are the first to defend academic pogroms against Jews in the name of freedom of speech.  Can campus Holocaust Denial Rallies be far behind?  You can see a leading British BDS advocate posing in front of an Arab swastika, used by the Syrian neo-Nazi group, the SSNP, here.   The resemblance to Judith Butler and her recent appearance at the Brooklyn College Hatefest is, in the immortal words of Yoggi Berra, too coincidental to be a coincidence.
> 
> ...
> 
> Its front page message is worth citing:
> 
> _BDS-ers come from the goosestepping Neo-Nazi Right, from the bedwetting radical Left, from the anarchist anarcho-fascist movements, from the various front groups for the International Solidarity Movement or ISM (which stands for I Support Murderers).   BDS is the official mantra of the anti-Semitic vermin and their genocidal fellow travelers, who are attempting to get the world to boycott Israel. The BDS scum consist of anti-Jewish racists seeking the annihilation of Israel and strive for a second Holocaust of the Jewish people. They work to achieve this while pretending that they think Israel mistreats Arabs. If they had been alive in the 1930s and 1940s, they would all have been participating in the German movement to boycott and divest from Jews._
> 
> ...
> 
> But youve got to hand it to the boycotters.  They hate Jews so much that they want Jews harmed even if the campaign also harms Arabs.  After all, Arabs are nothing more than an instance in collateral damage in the holy war of aggression and jihad against the Jews.  In the view of the BDSholes, Arabs never are entitled to any human rights protection in Arab countries.  Arabs need protection only when this serves to undermine, endanger, and demonize the Jews.   In all other cases, let them eat stale pita!
> 
> The Nazi Roots of the Boycott-Israel Movement
> 
> 
> 
> The BDS movement is an economic boycott of Israeli products because of their inhuman and illegal treatment of the Palestinian's.
Click to expand...


BDS = Bad Dumb & Stupid

But you can HELP:
The Fellowship - Home
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee: Sign Up Now


----------



## American_Jihad

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie. The U.S. supplies Israel with money and weapons so Israel can defend itself against the Arabs who vow to destroy her .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're talking to a guy who constantly says Israel will be nuked soon lolololol. I think he's like 14 years old or something
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish I was 14, thanks for the compliment. But I've said that Israel should use this time as the superior and occupyer force to make peace, or else risk getting nuked down the road. Soon? maybe. Probably not for a few years still. And it's only a fool who completely discounts the possibility. I guess that would be you 2.
Click to expand...


If Israel is nuked way more arabs will die then Jews from nuclear fallout alone...


----------



## irosie91

the only dangers a nuclear   Iran is to Israel is the possibility of their using 
dirty bombs    and the SENSE OF TRIUMPH  that will be engendered in the 
hearts of  MUJAHADEEN PIGS


----------



## proudveteran06

loinboy said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie. The U.S. supplies Israel with money and weapons so Israel can defend itself against the Arabs who vow to destroy her .
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force, cannot claim self-defense.
Click to expand...



   Israel became a " occupational Force" when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.  

      They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it


----------



## ima

American_Jihad said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're talking to a guy who constantly says Israel will be nuked soon lolololol. I think he's like 14 years old or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I was 14, thanks for the compliment. But I've said that Israel should use this time as the superior and occupyer force to make peace, or else risk getting nuked down the road. Soon? maybe. Probably not for a few years still. And it's only a fool who completely discounts the possibility. I guess that would be you 2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If Israel is nuked way more arabs will die then Jews from nuclear fallout alone...
Click to expand...


I know, and they know, but they don't care. They'll all get their 72 9-year-old virgins with allah. Or so they think.


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie. The U.S. supplies Israel with money and weapons so Israel can defend itself against the Arabs who vow to destroy her .
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force, cannot claim self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israel became a " occupational Force" *when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.
> 
> They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it
Click to expand...


At least you agree that Israel is an occupational force. It's a start.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> An occupational force, cannot claim self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel became a " occupational Force" *when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.
> 
> They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least you agree that Israel is an occupational force. It's a start.
Click to expand...



   At least you agree that it has always been the goal of the Arabs to anneliate Israel, they initiated the 67 War, and will initiate another War with Israel and WW 111 !  It's a start !


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel became a " occupational Force" *when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.
> 
> They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least you agree that Israel is an occupational force. It's a start.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At least you agree that it has always been the goal of the Arabs to anneliate Israel, they initiated the 67 War, and will initiate another War with Israel and WW 111 !  It's a start !
Click to expand...

It's not a war when you're fighting an occupying force as you just admitted Israel is. Sorry, you lose.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least you agree that Israel is an occupational force. It's a start.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least you agree that it has always been the goal of the Arabs to anneliate Israel, they initiated the 67 War, and will initiate another War with Israel and WW 111 !  It's a start !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a war when you're fighting an occupying force as you just admitted Israel is. Sorry, you lose.
Click to expand...



 It's not a War when a Country withdraws from territory and immediately gets  more Rockets hurled at them.  It's not a War when demands are made that are impossible for the other side and the demanding side refuses to negotiate.  It's not a War when the " territory" that is out for Israel's destruction calls all of Israel " Palestine:    Sorry,   you lose.....


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



No, Israel will fall just like all the other occupiers and colonizers have. She will fall just like all the others who came before her! I thank God for that! Sherri


----------



## Hossfly

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel will fall just like all the other occupiers and colonizers have. She will fall just like all the others who came before her! I thank God for that! Sherri
Click to expand...

Are you voicing the Christian sentiment or your personal conviction? Just curious.


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least you agree that it has always been the goal of the Arabs to anneliate Israel, they initiated the 67 War, and will initiate another War with Israel and WW 111 !  It's a start !
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a war when you're fighting an occupying force as you just admitted Israel is. Sorry, you lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a War when a Country withdraws from territory and immediately gets  more Rockets hurled at them.  It's not a War when demands are made that are impossible for the other side and the demanding side refuses to negotiate.  It's not a War when the " territory" that is out for Israel's destruction calls all of Israel " Palestine:    Sorry,   you lose.....
Click to expand...


Sorry, but the game was already over and you lost.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a war when you're fighting an occupying force as you just admitted Israel is. Sorry, you lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a War when a Country withdraws from territory and immediately gets  more Rockets hurled at them.  It's not a War when demands are made that are impossible for the other side and the demanding side refuses to negotiate.  It's not a War when the " territory" that is out for Israel's destruction calls all of Israel " Palestine:    Sorry,   you lose.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the game was already over and you lost.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but the game is over any you lost. Israel is never go back to the 67 Borders that were never recognized by the Arabs in the first place, forfeit all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return"


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a War when a Country withdraws from territory and immediately gets  more Rockets hurled at them.  It's not a War when demands are made that are impossible for the other side and the demanding side refuses to negotiate.  It's not a War when the " territory" that is out for Israel's destruction calls all of Israel " Palestine:    Sorry,   you lose.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the game was already over and you lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the game is over any you lost. Israel is never go back to the 67 Borders that were never recognized by the Arabs in the first place, forfeit all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return"
Click to expand...


That's totally fine with me. But don't be surprised if you get nuked. Just saying. And NOT saying that that's what I want, because I don't. I'd prefer a peaceful solution, and as the occupyer and superior force, Israel needs to step up to the plate.
Personally, I'd get me and my family the fuck out of there.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the game was already over and you lost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the game is over any you lost. Israel is never go back to the 67 Borders that were never recognized by the Arabs in the first place, forfeit all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's totally fine with me. But don't be surprised if you get nuked. Just saying. And NOT saying that that's what I want, because I don't. I'd prefer a peaceful solution, and as the occupyer and superior force, Israel needs to step up to the plate.
> Personally, I'd get me and my family the fuck out of there.
Click to expand...


  You can deny it all you want but Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.    At least you finally admit that Abbas has no desire to " negotiate", it's either all his way or no way.

     Why should Israel get nuked if Abbas doesn't get 100% of what he wants?  It's a fair question.  Answer; Because the Arabs are the Agressors, always have been always will be.  You finally admit it when you speak about the Arabs initiating WW 111


----------



## toastman

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, Israel will fall just like all the other occupiers and colonizers have. She will fall just like all the others who came before her! I thank God for that! Sherri
Click to expand...


SS Frau Sherri, Israel has been standing strong for 60+ years, you sick twisted Nazi witch. Remember, we have been hearing the same "Israel will fall" bullshit for 60 + years. 

BTW, I just got off the phone with my cousin, (one of many who live in Israel), and he was just reminding me how awesome everything is in Israel and how happy all the Jews are living there. Hahahahahha. YOu mad, you ugly old slut ?


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the game is over any you lost. Israel is never go back to the 67 Borders that were never recognized by the Arabs in the first place, forfeit all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's totally fine with me. But don't be surprised if you get nuked. Just saying. And NOT saying that that's what I want, because I don't. I'd prefer a peaceful solution, and as the occupyer and superior force, Israel needs to step up to the plate.
> Personally, I'd get me and my family the fuck out of there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can deny it all you want but Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.    At least you finally admit that Abbas has no desire to " negotiate", it's either all his way or no way.
> 
> Why should Israel get nuked if Abbas doesn't get 100% of what he wants?  It's a fair question.  Answer; Because the Arabs are the Agressors, always have been always will be.  You finally admit it when you speak about the Arabs initiating WW 111
Click to expand...

Once the arabs initiate WWIII, come back here and I'll apologize for being wrong. Just make sure you're not to close to the blast. 

PS I have no idea what Abbas said or wants, so you can stop claiming that I do.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's totally fine with me. But don't be surprised if you get nuked. Just saying. And NOT saying that that's what I want, because I don't. I'd prefer a peaceful solution, and as the occupyer and superior force, Israel needs to step up to the plate.
> Personally, I'd get me and my family the fuck out of there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can deny it all you want but Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.    At least you finally admit that Abbas has no desire to " negotiate", it's either all his way or no way.
> 
> Why should Israel get nuked if Abbas doesn't get 100% of what he wants?  It's a fair question.  Answer; Because the Arabs are the Agressors, always have been always will be.  You finally admit it when you speak about the Arabs initiating WW 111
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once the arabs initiate WWIII, come back here and I'll apologize for being wrong. Just make sure you're not to close to the blast.
> 
> You're the one who claims they will nuke Israel, not me.  That will initiate WW 111.  Still haven't answered my question; Why should Israel get " nuked" because Abbas doesn't get everything he wants?
> 
> 
> PS I have no idea what Abbas said or wants, so you can stop claiming that I do.
Click to expand...


     That's because he's insisting on the 67 Borders and " Right of Return".  I am mistaken?  Documentation please.  Google what he has said and prove me wrong.  You can't.  At least we can agree on something


----------



## Jos

Israel will be returned to the 1923 borders if they don't negotiate  Cynthia


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can deny it all you want but Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.    At least you finally admit that Abbas has no desire to " negotiate", it's either all his way or no way.
> 
> Why should Israel get nuked if Abbas doesn't get 100% of what he wants?  It's a fair question.  Answer; Because the Arabs are the Agressors, always have been always will be.  You finally admit it when you speak about the Arabs initiating WW 111
> 
> 
> 
> Once the arabs initiate WWIII, come back here and I'll apologize for being wrong. Just make sure you're not to close to the blast.
> 
> You're the one who claims they will nuke Israel, not me.  That will initiate WW 111.  Still haven't answered my question; Why should Israel get " nuked" because Abbas doesn't get everything he wants?
> 
> 
> PS I have no idea what Abbas said or wants, so you can stop claiming that I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's because he's insisting on the 67 Borders and " Right of Return".  I am mistaken?  Documentation please.  Google what he has said and prove me wrong.  You can't.  At least we can agree on something
Click to expand...


I personally see no problem with 67 borders and right of return. They agree to let Israel be. It's better than exchanging nukes. What's the prob?


----------



## proudveteran06

Jos said:


> Israel will be returned to the 1923 borders if they don't negotiate  Cynthia



Definition of NEGOTIATE
intransitive verb


b: to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise <negotiate a treaty> 


 Read the above definition SLOWLY if capable ( of course we know you're not).  Name one thing the Palestinians have done to contribute to " negotiations".  You can't because they haven't.  DE- NIAL is not the River


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once the arabs initiate WWIII, come back here and I'll apologize for being wrong. Just make sure you're not to close to the blast.
> 
> You're the one who claims they will nuke Israel, not me.  That will initiate WW 111.  Still haven't answered my question; Why should Israel get " nuked" because Abbas doesn't get everything he wants?
> 
> 
> PS I have no idea what Abbas said or wants, so you can stop claiming that I do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because he's insisting on the 67 Borders and " Right of Return".  I am mistaken?  Documentation please.  Google what he has said and prove me wrong.  You can't.  At least we can agree on something
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I personally see no problem with 67 borders and right of return. They agree to let Israel be. It's better than exchanging nukes. What's the prob?
Click to expand...




Definition of NEGOTIATE
intransitive verb


b: to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise <negotiate a treaty> 


  Sigh.....  Another one.  Read the above Definition SLOWLY.  

    " Negotiation" and " Compromise" does not mean that one side makes all the concessions and the other side gets their way 100%.  Get it?  Of course not.  

       Still refuse to answer the question; Why should Abbas not getting his way 100% cause a Nuclear War that you at least admit the Arabs will initiate !


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's because he's insisting on the 67 Borders and " Right of Return".  I am mistaken?  Documentation please.  Google what he has said and prove me wrong.  You can't.  At least we can agree on something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally see no problem with 67 borders and right of return. They agree to let Israel be. It's better than exchanging nukes. What's the prob?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Definition of NEGOTIATE
> intransitive verb
> 
> 
> b: to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise <negotiate a treaty>
> 
> 
> Sigh.....  Another one.  Read the above Definition SLOWLY.
> 
> " Negotiation" and " Compromise" does not mean that one side makes all the concessions and the other side gets their way 100%.  Get it?  Of course not.
> 
> Still refuse to answer the question; Why should Abbas not getting his way 100% cause a Nuclear War that you at least admit the Arabs will initiate !
Click to expand...


Israel gets recognition and peace. Meaning Jews officially get their country. How can you say they get nothing? For the arabs, that's pretty big.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally see no problem with 67 borders and right of return. They agree to let Israel be. It's better than exchanging nukes. What's the prob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of NEGOTIATE
> intransitive verb
> 
> 
> b: to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise <negotiate a treaty>
> 
> 
> Sigh.....  Another one.  Read the above Definition SLOWLY.
> 
> " Negotiation" and " Compromise" does not mean that one side makes all the concessions and the other side gets their way 100%.  Get it?  Of course not.
> 
> Still refuse to answer the question; Why should Abbas not getting his way 100% cause a Nuclear War that you at least admit the Arabs will initiate !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gets recognition and peace. Meaning Jews officially get their country. How can you say they get nothing? For the arabs, that's pretty big.
Click to expand...



  1) Israel is not going to go back to Borders that were never recognized by the Arabs or Respected

   2) The Jewish people have their most religious sites in E. Jerusalem; A place that Abbas has declared a NJA Zone.  The Israelis will never be denied their right to that land again.


    3)  " Right of Return" would eventually make the Jews a minority in their own Country.   In addition, it would make it a lot easier to destroy Israel from the inside 

     4)  See below



http://Click here: Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News



Abbas Makes It Official: All of Israel is Palestine

The Fatah party, headed by Abbas, has made official what it has been saying more quietly and adopts a new logo: All of Israel as Palestine.


AAFont Size
 By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu 
First Publish: 12/30/2012, 9:09 AM




Abbas with map of 'Palestine'Palestine' in background

Israel news photo: Flash 90



The Fatah party, headed by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has made official what it has been saying quietly and has adopted a new logo showing all of Israel as Palestine.

The logo marks the 48th anniversary of the founding of Fatah by Yasser Arafat and includes a map with the PA flag and a map of Israel that appears to be a depiction of the black and white checkered kefiyah, a symbol of the violent intifada, and the slogan the state and victory."

Palestine Media Watch (PMW) revealed that the official PA daily published the new official logo.

For the past year, official PA documents have increasingly shown Palestine as covering all of Israel, but this is the first time the Fatah party has placed the map on its logo.

PMW noted, Other symbols central to Fatah ideology also appear in the logo, including a rifle and a key symbolizing the Palestinian claim of ownership to houses within Israel.

The Arab media watchdog translated and published the article announcing the new logo:

Just a small exerpt of the article. It's my understanding I can't post the entire thing even with the link.  It should be obvious


----------



## toastman

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally see no problem with 67 borders and right of return. They agree to let Israel be. It's better than exchanging nukes. What's the prob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of NEGOTIATE
> intransitive verb
> 
> 
> b: to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise <negotiate a treaty>
> 
> 
> Sigh.....  Another one.  Read the above Definition SLOWLY.
> 
> " Negotiation" and " Compromise" does not mean that one side makes all the concessions and the other side gets their way 100%.  Get it?  Of course not.
> 
> Still refuse to answer the question; Why should Abbas not getting his way 100% cause a Nuclear War that you at least admit the Arabs will initiate !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel gets recognition and peace. Meaning Jews officially get their country. How can you say they get nothing? For the arabs, that's pretty big.
Click to expand...



Hey dumbass, you didn't even come close to answering proudveterans question.
Try again !


----------



## proudveteran06

toastman said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of NEGOTIATE
> intransitive verb
> 
> 
> b: to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise <negotiate a treaty>
> 
> 
> Sigh.....  Another one.  Read the above Definition SLOWLY.
> 
> " Negotiation" and " Compromise" does not mean that one side makes all the concessions and the other side gets their way 100%.  Get it?  Of course not.
> 
> Still refuse to answer the question; Why should Abbas not getting his way 100% cause a Nuclear War that you at least admit the Arabs will initiate !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gets recognition and peace. Meaning Jews officially get their country. How can you say they get nothing? For the arabs, that's pretty big.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass, you didn't even come close to answering proudveterans question.
> Try again !
Click to expand...


   Have you noticed that not ONE Pro- Palestinian will answer my question?


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel gets recognition and peace. Meaning Jews officially get their country. How can you say they get nothing? For the arabs, that's pretty big.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass, you didn't even come close to answering proudveterans question.
> Try again !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you noticed that not ONE Pro- Palestinian will answer my question?
Click to expand...


You asked why Abbas should get 100%... He's not. He's giving up land for Israel and recognizing it.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass, you didn't even come close to answering proudveterans question.
> Try again !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you noticed that not ONE Pro- Palestinian will answer my question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You asked why Abbas should get 100%... He's not. He's giving up land for Israel and recognizing it.
Click to expand...



" 67 Borders " ( Which were never recognized or Accepted) and " Right of Return" is Giving up Land?    lol    Don't think so !   



http://Click here: Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News




Abbas Makes It Official: All of Israel is Palestine

The Fatah party, headed by Abbas, has made official what it has been saying more quietly and adopts a new logo: All of Israel as Palestine.


AAFont Size
 By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu 
First Publish: 12/30/2012, 9:09 AM




Abbas with map of 'Palestine'Palestine' in background

Israel news photo: Flash 90



The Fatah party, headed by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has made official what it has been saying quietly and has adopted a new logo showing all of Israel as Palestine.

The logo marks the 48th anniversary of the founding of Fatah by Yasser Arafat and includes a map with the PA flag and a map of Israel that appears to be a depiction of the black and white checkered kefiyah, a symbol of the violent intifada, and the slogan the state and victory."

Palestine Media Watch (PMW) revealed that the official PA daily published the new official logo.

For the past year, official PA documents have increasingly shown Palestine as covering all of Israel, but this is the first time the Fatah party has placed the map on its logo.

PMW noted, Other symbols central to Fatah ideology also appear in the logo, including a rifle and a key symbolizing the Palestinian claim of ownership to houses within Israel.

The Arab media watchdog translated and published the article announcing the new logo:

"Senior Fatah official in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Rabah, stressed that the movement this year will hold a big, central rally in the Gaza Strip on the day of the 48th anniversary of the beginning of the Palestinian revolution.

Rabah explained to Ma'an that the event will be held considering the atmosphere of reconciliation and unity that has prevailed in the Palestinian arena in the last few.

The organizing committee for the 48th anniversary of the Fatah movement approved this year's main anniversary logo... [The rally] will take place in Gaza to mark the 48th anniversary of the modern Palestinian revolution under the slogan 'the state and the victory.'"

The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) reacted to the new logo by urging President Barack Obama, the European Union and the United Nations to condemn this outrage which reiterates the clear fact that Abbas and the Fatah/PA have no interest in peace with Israel, only its destruction.


ZOA National President Morton A. Klein said, "This new Fatah logo graphically depicts the ugly truth about this unreconstructed terrorist organization whose Constitution to this day calls for the destruction of Israel (Article 13) and the use of terrorism as an essential element in the struggle to achieve this aim (Article 19). It belies the fiction that Mahmoud Abbas is a 'moderate' who seeks peace with Israel, and who wishes to end Palestinian terrorism against Israeli Jews. It also makes clear that the principles of Yasser Arafat are respected and promoted.


"
   This is the Pro- Palestinian defintion of Abbas " Giving up Land"  ( Not the entire article)


----------



## toastman

HAHAHAHAHAHA !
ima got owned again. He still can't answer your question.

ima, why can't you just accept defeat ?


----------



## ima

Why can't you guys just accept the fact that eventually, if Israel doesn't make peace with its neighbours, it'll get nuked. Seems pretty simple to grasp. Maybe you guys are just in total denial.


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## proudveteran06

ima said:


> Why can't you guys just accept the fact that eventually, if Israel doesn't make peace with its neighbours, it'll get nuked. Seems pretty simple to grasp. Maybe you guys are just in total denial.




   Why can't you just admit the fact that even though I asked you to Google Abbas " peace proposals" you haven't because he has never made one in spite of your earlier posts

     Why can't you accept the fact that Israel is not going to go back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, give up all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return" which could eventually make the Jewish people a minority.  So much for their Homeland

       You claimed earlier that Abbas is giving up land.  Why can't you admit the fact that it's a lie?

          Still haven't told us why the Arabs should INITIATE  WW 111 if Abbas doesn't get his all his way.   I gave you the definition of " negotiate" before.  Try to read it again ; SLOWLY.    At least you finally admit one thing; The Arabs are the agressors, they always have been and they are the ones who will initiate WW 111


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you guys just accept the fact that eventually, if Israel doesn't make peace with its neighbours, it'll get nuked. Seems pretty simple to grasp. Maybe you guys are just in total denial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you just admit the fact that even though I asked you to Google Abbas " peace proposals" you haven't because he has never made one in spite of your earlier posts
> 
> Why can't you accept the fact that Israel is not going to go back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, give up all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return" which could eventually make the Jewish people a minority.  So much for their Homeland
> 
> You claimed earlier that Abbas is giving up land.  Why can't you admit the fact that it's a lie?
> 
> Still haven't told us why the Arabs should INITIATE  WW 111 if Abbas doesn't get his all his way.   I gave you the definition of " negotiate" before.  Try to read it again ; SLOWLY.    At least you finally admit one thing; The Arabs are the agressors, they always have been and they are the ones who will initiate WW 111
Click to expand...

If a nuke goes off in or near Israel, you'll have about 3 nanoseconds to care about who started what before the shock wave hits you and blows your ass to smithereens. 

Should make for good TV!


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you guys just accept the fact that eventually, if Israel doesn't make peace with its neighbours, it'll get nuked. Seems pretty simple to grasp. Maybe you guys are just in total denial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you just admit the fact that even though I asked you to Google Abbas " peace proposals" you haven't because he has never made one in spite of your earlier posts
> 
> Why can't you accept the fact that Israel is not going to go back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, give up all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return" which could eventually make the Jewish people a minority.  So much for their Homeland
> 
> You claimed earlier that Abbas is giving up land.  Why can't you admit the fact that it's a lie?
> 
> Still haven't told us why the Arabs should INITIATE  WW 111 if Abbas doesn't get his all his way.   I gave you the definition of " negotiate" before.  Try to read it again ; SLOWLY.    At least you finally admit one thing; The Arabs are the agressors, they always have been and they are the ones who will initiate WW 111
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If a nuke goes off in or near Israel, you'll have about 3 nanoseconds to care about who started what before the shock wave hits you and blows your ass to smithereens.
> 
> Should make for good TV!
Click to expand...



  Noticed how you still can't answer any of my questions because you don't have the Guts to admit they never even tried to " negltiate", still can't justify why Israel should give in 100% or why that " justifies" Arab Agression starting WW 111.  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality- ALWAYS making excuses for the Arabs when it comes to the destruction of Israel


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you just admit the fact that even though I asked you to Google Abbas " peace proposals" you haven't because he has never made one in spite of your earlier posts
> 
> Why can't you accept the fact that Israel is not going to go back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, give up all rights to E. Jerusalem, or allow " Right of Return" which could eventually make the Jewish people a minority.  So much for their Homeland
> 
> You claimed earlier that Abbas is giving up land.  Why can't you admit the fact that it's a lie?
> 
> Still haven't told us why the Arabs should INITIATE  WW 111 if Abbas doesn't get his all his way.   I gave you the definition of " negotiate" before.  Try to read it again ; SLOWLY.    At least you finally admit one thing; The Arabs are the agressors, they always have been and they are the ones who will initiate WW 111
> 
> 
> 
> If a nuke goes off in or near Israel, you'll have about 3 nanoseconds to care about who started what before the shock wave hits you and blows your ass to smithereens.
> 
> Should make for good TV!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Noticed how you still can't answer any of my questions because you don't have the Guts to admit they never even tried to " negltiate", still can't justify why Israel should give in 100% or why that " justifies" Arab Agression starting WW 111.  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality- ALWAYS making excuses for the Arabs when it comes to the destruction of Israel
Click to expand...


I'll say it again, I don't give a shit what abbas said or does. Israel as the occupyer and superior force should make a real peace offer, touching on all the major points, and maybe they take it for real! Who knows? It's never happened.
Otherwise, eventually, Israel gets nuked.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a nuke goes off in or near Israel, you'll have about 3 nanoseconds to care about who started what before the shock wave hits you and blows your ass to smithereens.
> 
> Should make for good TV!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Noticed how you still can't answer any of my questions because you don't have the Guts to admit they never even tried to " negltiate", still can't justify why Israel should give in 100% or why that " justifies" Arab Agression starting WW 111.  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality- ALWAYS making excuses for the Arabs when it comes to the destruction of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll say it again, I don't give a shit what abbas said or does. Israel as the occupyer and superior force should make a real peace offer, touching on all the major points, and maybe they take it for real! Who knows? It's never happened.
> Otherwise, eventually, Israel gets nuked.
Click to expand...



I'll say it again;  Try to read slowly.  Olmert offered Abbas almost everything he wanted including land within the borders linking Gaza to the W. Bank ( Obviously something they did not have before) I have posted his offer MANY times.  Not my fault if you can't read. Doubt my postings?  Google it yourself then. It would only take a few minutes. Abbas made " offers" that Israel refused?  Google them and let us know.


 You won't because you don't have the guts to admit you're wrong. I repeat; Why should Israel get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get his ALL his way?  What " land" is he giving up?   Just one more example of Arab Agression starting WW 3 !!!!


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Noticed how you still can't answer any of my questions because you don't have the Guts to admit they never even tried to " negltiate", still can't justify why Israel should give in 100% or why that " justifies" Arab Agression starting WW 111.  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality- ALWAYS making excuses for the Arabs when it comes to the destruction of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it again, I don't give a shit what abbas said or does. Israel as the occupyer and superior force should make a real peace offer, touching on all the major points, and maybe they take it for real! Who knows? It's never happened.
> Otherwise, eventually, Israel gets nuked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it again;  Try to read slowly.  Olmert offered Abbas almost everything he wanted including land within the borders linking Gaza to the W. Bank ( Obviously something they did not have before) I have posted his offer MANY times.  Not my fault if you can't read. Doubt my postings?  Google it yourself then. It would only take a few minutes. Abbas made " offers" that Israel refused?  Google them and let us know.
> 
> 
> You won't because you don't have the guts to admit you're wrong. I repeat; Why should Israel get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get his ALL his way?  What " land" is he giving up?   Just one more example of Arab Agression starting WW 3 !!!!
Click to expand...


Israel has never made a proper peace offer. I'll think of you when the nuke hits.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it again, I don't give a shit what abbas said or does. Israel as the occupyer and superior force should make a real peace offer, touching on all the major points, and maybe they take it for real! Who knows? It's never happened.
> Otherwise, eventually, Israel gets nuked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it again;  Try to read slowly.  Olmert offered Abbas almost everything he wanted including land within the borders linking Gaza to the W. Bank ( Obviously something they did not have before) I have posted his offer MANY times.  Not my fault if you can't read. Doubt my postings?  Google it yourself then. It would only take a few minutes. Abbas made " offers" that Israel refused?  Google them and let us know.
> 
> 
> You won't because you don't have the guts to admit you're wrong. I repeat; Why should Israel get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get his ALL his way?  What " land" is he giving up?   Just one more example of Arab Agression starting WW 3 !!!!
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has never made a proper peace offer. I'll think of you when the nuke hits.
Click to expand...


 Not my fault if you have a problem with reading Comphrension.  Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.  Typical Pro- Palestinian; To her a " proper offer" are the 67 Borders, giving up all rights to E. Jerusalem, and " Right of Return". It was in her prior post  That will never happen.  Still haven't " explained" why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it all his way.  BTW, what " land" is he giving up in his " offer?"    lol


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll say it again;  Try to read slowly.  Olmert offered Abbas almost everything he wanted including land within the borders linking Gaza to the W. Bank ( Obviously something they did not have before) I have posted his offer MANY times.  Not my fault if you can't read. Doubt my postings?  Google it yourself then. It would only take a few minutes. Abbas made " offers" that Israel refused?  Google them and let us know.
> 
> 
> You won't because you don't have the guts to admit you're wrong. I repeat; Why should Israel get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get his ALL his way?  What " land" is he giving up?   Just one more example of Arab Agression starting WW 3 !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has never made a proper peace offer. I'll think of you when the nuke hits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not my fault if you have a problem with reading Comphrension.  Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.  Typical Pro- Palestinian; To her a " proper offer" are the 67 Borders, giving up all rights to E. Jerusalem, and " Right of Return". It was in her prior post  That will never happen.  Still haven't " explained" why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it all his way.  BTW, *what " land" is he giving up in his " offer?"*    lol
Click to expand...


He'd let the occupying force keep some of their ill-gotten land.


----------



## toastman

ima, talking about Israel getting nuked repeatedly just shows how frustrated you are with what proudvetran is telling you and your incapability to answer his simple question .. you're a sad man..

Nuked, now that's funny hahahaha. What country in their right mind would commit suicide by nuking ISrael


----------



## ima

toastman said:


> ima, talking about Israel getting nuked repeatedly just shows how frustrated you are with what proudvetran is telling you and your incapability to answer his simple question .. you're a sad man..
> 
> Nuked, now that's funny hahahaha. What country in their right mind would commit suicide by nuking ISrael



Israel getting nuked down the road is a possibility. Burying your head in the sand won't matter.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ima, talking about Israel getting nuked repeatedly just shows how frustrated you are with what proudvetran is telling you and your incapability to answer his simple question .. you're a sad man..
> 
> Nuked, now that's funny hahahaha. What country in their right mind would commit suicide by nuking ISrael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel getting nuked down the road is a possibility. Burying your head in the sand won't matter.
Click to expand...


  Translation;  To the Pro- Palestinian a " Real Offer" are the 67 Borders that were never accepted, no rights in E. Jerusalem, and " Right of Return" which would eventually annex Israel to Palestinian.  Why can't she tell us what " offers" Abbas made?  That's because he hasn't made any; He demands all of the above.  Why should Israel get " nuked" to start WW 3 if Abbas doesn't get EVERYTHING all his way?  No answer. Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality


----------



## Billo_Really

proudveteran06 said:


> At least you agree that it has always been the goal of the Arabs to anneliate Israel, they initiated the 67 War, and will initiate another War with Israel and WW 111 !  It's a start !


No they didn't.

Israeli tanks rolled into Egypt, not the other way around.


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## toastman

Well ima, just a reminder that Israel has several Dolphin submarines with nuclear tipped missles, operating under the water 24/7


----------



## toastman

loinboy said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least you agree that it has always been the goal of the Arabs to anneliate Israel, they initiated the 67 War, and will initiate another War with Israel and WW 111 !  It's a start !
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
> 
> Israeli tanks rolled into Egypt, not the other way around.
Click to expand...


Hey loinboy, what is a pre-emptive strike ?


----------



## Billo_Really

proudveteran06 said:


> Israel became a " occupational Force" when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.
> 
> They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it


You can't burn the candle at both ends, it's either one or the other.

You can't be an "occupational force" 45 years ago and blame the initiation of violence on arabs not accepting the '67 borders and now, 45 years later, have that same "occupational force", who now rejects the '67 borders, still blame arabs for intitiating the violence, when they now accept the '67 borders.

The biggest thing I don't like about you fuckers, is this notion that you think you can have your cake and eat it too!  And I'm the kind of mother-fucker, who'll shove that cake down your fuckin' mouth and out your ass!  I despise hypocrites!  Especially, arrogant, narcissistic, assholes like you!  Not you personally, people like you.

_Ya'll be cool...  _


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Hey loinboy, what is a pre-emptive strike ?


Illegal (according to international law).

Doesn't matter whether it's Bush Doctrine or Ben Doctrine or Menachem Doctrine, it's illegal.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Well ima, just a reminder that Israel has several Dolphin submarines with nuclear tipped missles, operating under the water 24/7


So that's why I couldn't get any _maui maui_, the last time I went to dinner!


----------



## toastman

But, you didn't answer my question !

What is a pre-emptive strike ?


----------



## ima

toastman said:


> Well ima, just a reminder that Israel has several Dolphin submarines with nuclear tipped missles, operating under the water 24/7



Those are only good to retaliate. Meaning when it's too late.


----------



## American_Jihad

loinboy said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel became a " occupational Force" when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.
> 
> They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it
> 
> 
> 
> You can't burn the candle at both ends, it's either one or the other.
> 
> You can't be an "occupational force" 45 years ago and blame the initiation of violence on arabs not accepting the '67 borders and now, 45 years later, have that same "occupational force", who now rejects the '67 borders, still blame arabs for intitiating the violence, when they now accept the '67 borders.
> 
> The biggest thing I don't like about you fuckers, is this notion that you think you can have your cake and eat it too!  And I'm the kind of mother-fucker, who'll shove that cake down your fuckin' mouth and out your ass!  I despise hypocrites!  Especially, arrogant, narcissistic, assholes like you!  Not you personally, people like you.
> 
> _Ya'll be cool...  _
Click to expand...


Loincloth, You sound like that blueberry pie eaten mother f**ker al sharpton. Here, have some pie and STFU...


----------



## toastman

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well ima, just a reminder that Israel has several Dolphin submarines with nuclear tipped missles, operating under the water 24/7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are only good to retaliate. Meaning when it's too late.
Click to expand...


I think it's time you woke up from your dream Nazi boy !


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> Loincloth, You sound like that blueberry pie eaten mother f**ker al sharpton. Here, have some pie and STFU...


I don't like blueberry pie!


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> But, you didn't answer my question !
> 
> What is a pre-emptive strike ?


I did answer your question.

It's illegal.  A pre-emptive strike is illegal.  That's the answer to your question.

Just because it's not the answer you were fishing for, doesn't not mean it is not an answer.


----------



## proudveteran06

loinboy said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel became a " occupational Force" when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.
> 
> They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it
> 
> 
> 
> You can't burn the candle at both ends, it's either one or the other.
> 
> You can't be an "occupational force" 45 years ago and blame the initiation of violence on arabs not accepting the '67 borders and now, 45 years later, have that same "occupational force", who now rejects the '67 borders, still blame arabs for intitiating the violence, when they now accept the '67 borders.
> 
> The biggest thing I don't like about you fuckers, is this notion that you think you can have your cake and eat it too!  And I'm the kind of mother-fucker, who'll shove that cake down your fuckin' mouth and out your ass!  I despise hypocrites!  Especially, arrogant, narcissistic, assholes like you!  Not you personally, people like you.
> 
> 
> The Arabs initiated the 67 War.  DE- NIAL is not the River.  Syria increased shooting at Israel in the Golan Heights, Syria and Egypt started to form at Israel's borders increasing their Military,  and sending the U.N. away.       The big thing I don't like about you Mother fuckers is the Notion that you believe Israel has to give in to ALL of Abbas demands; The 67 Borders that were never accepted, No rights to E. Jerusalem, Land withing the " 67 Borders" linking Gaza to the W. Bank which they obviously never had before,  and " Right of Return".   You are right about one thing; You are a MOTHER FUCKER! A Pro- Palestinian MOTHER FUCKER I will shove your Hypocrisy down your Fuckin Mouth and out your ass !  I despise Hypocrites!  Ask what Abbas is doing to " negotiate" and there is nobody home.   I despise arrogant, narcissistic, Hypocritical , assholes like you !
Click to expand...


----------



## proudveteran06

loinboy said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, you didn't answer my question !
> 
> What is a pre-emptive strike ?
> 
> 
> 
> I did answer your question.
> 
> It's illegal.  A pre-emptive strike is illegal.  That's the answer to your question.
> 
> Just because it's not the answer you were fishing for, doesn't not mean it is not an answer.
Click to expand...


http://Click here: http://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1100&context=annlsurvey

The Pro- Palestinian lies again.  Just in case the link doesn't connect it's " The Legal Standards for a Pre- Emptive Strike" written by Olumide Obayemi


----------



## proudveteran06

proudveteran06 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel became a " occupational Force" when the Arab Nations decided not to accept the 67 Borders or anything else concerning Israel's existence.
> 
> They initiate violence; Israel has the right to defend herself.  Deal with it
> 
> 
> 
> You can't burn the candle at both ends, it's either one or the other.
> 
> You can't be an "occupational force" 45 years ago and blame the initiation of violence on arabs not accepting the '67 borders and now, 45 years later, have that same "occupational force", who now rejects the '67 borders, still blame arabs for intitiating the violence, when they now accept the '67 borders.
> 
> The biggest thing I don't like about you fuckers, is this notion that you think you can have your cake and eat it too!  And I'm the kind of mother-fucker, who'll shove that cake down your fuckin' mouth and out your ass!  I despise hypocrites!  Especially, arrogant, narcissistic, assholes like you!  Not you personally, people like you.
> 
> 
> The Arabs initiated the 67 War.  DE- NIAL is not the River.  Syria increased shooting at Israel in the Golan Heights, Syria and Egypt started to form at Israel's borders increasing their Military,  and sending the U.N. away.       The big thing I don't like about you Mother fuckers is the Notion that you believe Israel has to give in to ALL of Abbas demands; The 67 Borders that were never accepted, No rights to E. Jerusalem, Land withing the " 67 Borders" linking Gaza to the W. Bank which they obviously never had before,  and " Right of Return".   You are right about one thing; You are a MOTHER FUCKER! A Pro- Palestinian MOTHER FUCKER I will shove your Hypocrisy down your Fuckin Mouth and out your ass !  I despise Hypocrites!  Ask what Abbas is doing to " negotiate" and there is nobody home.   I despise arrogant, narcissistic, Hypocritical , assholes like you !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163683#.USqBB1dgPWg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Makes It Official: All of Israel is Palestine
> 
> The Fatah party, headed by Abbas, has made official what it has been saying more quietly and adopts a new logo: All of Israel as Palestine.
> 
> 
> AAFont Size
> By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
> First Publish: 12/30/2012, 9:09 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas with map of 'Palestine'Palestine' in background
> 
> Israel news photo: Flash 90
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah party, headed by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has made official what it has been saying quietly and has adopted a new logo showing all of Israel as Palestine.
> 
> The logo marks the 48th anniversary of the founding of Fatah by Yasser Arafat and includes a map with the PA flag and a map of Israel that appears to be a depiction of the black and white checkered kefiyah, a symbol of the violent intifada, and the slogan &#8220;the state and victory."
> 
> Palestine Media Watch (PMW) revealed that the official PA daily published the new official logo.
> 
> For the past year, official PA documents have increasingly shown Palestine as covering all of Israel, but this is the first time the Fatah party has placed the map on its logo.
> 
> PMW noted, &#8220;Other symbols central to Fatah ideology also appear in the logo, including a rifle and a key symbolizing the Palestinian claim of ownership to houses within Israel.&#8221;
> 
> The Arab media watchdog translated and published the article announcing the new logo:
> 
> "Senior Fatah official in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Rabah, stressed that the movement this year will hold a big, central rally in the Gaza Strip on the day of the 48th anniversary of the beginning of the Palestinian revolution.
> 
> &#8220;Rabah explained to Ma'an that the event will be held considering the atmosphere of reconciliation and unity that has prevailed in the Palestinian arena in the last few&#8230;.
> 
> &#8220;The organizing committee for the 48th anniversary of the Fatah movement approved this year's main anniversary logo... [The rally] will take place in Gaza to mark the 48th anniversary of the modern Palestinian revolution under the slogan 'the state and the victory.'"
> 
> The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) reacted to the new logo by urging &#8220;President Barack Obama, the European Union and the United Nations to condemn this outrage which reiterates the clear fact that Abbas and the Fatah/PA have no interest in peace with Israel, only its destruction.&#8221;
> 
> 
> They accept the " 67 Borders?" Another Pro- Palestinian lie
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

"Palestinian farmers face the brunt of Israel&#8217;s land confiscations, demolitions and water theft. Farmers that still have access to land and water face systematically implemented restrictions and violence.

"Israeli agricultural export companies such as Mehadrin and Hadiklaim are among the primary beneficiaries of the destruction of Palestinian agriculture, operating inside and exporting produce from illegal settlements using stolen Palestinian land and water and profiting from the siege on Gaza."

What happens when the "chosen people" run out of land and water west of the Jordan River to steal?
Maybe Moses knows?

Briefing: Farming Injustice ? International trade with Israeli agricultural companies and the destruction of Palestinian farming | BDSmovement.net


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

There is a huge truth here.  



georgephillip said:


> "Palestinian farmers face the brunt of Israels land confiscations, demolitions and water theft. Farmers that still have access to land and water face systematically implemented restrictions and violence.
> 
> "Israeli agricultural export companies such as Mehadrin and Hadiklaim are among the primary beneficiaries of the destruction of Palestinian agriculture, operating inside and exporting produce from illegal settlements using stolen Palestinian land and water and profiting from the siege on Gaza."
> 
> What happens when the "chosen people" run out of land and water west of the Jordan River to steal?
> Maybe Moses knows?


*(COMMENT)*

The land and the water are all reasons and truths --- to be sure.

But the solution rests in how the Israelis approach these important issues and the changing the the perception held by the Palestinians relative to the Israeli as a benevolent administrator.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has never made a proper peace offer. I'll think of you when the nuke hits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not my fault if you have a problem with reading Comphrension.  Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.  Typical Pro- Palestinian; To her a " proper offer" are the 67 Borders, giving up all rights to E. Jerusalem, and " Right of Return". It was in her prior post  That will never happen.  Still haven't " explained" why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it all his way.  BTW, *what " land" is he giving up in his " offer?"*    lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He'd let the occupying force keep some of their ill-gotten land.
Click to expand...



   What land is he " willing" for the Israelis to keep?  He has clearly said several times 67 Borders or nothing.  Take a course in reading Comphrension


----------



## georgephillip

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a huge truth here.
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinian farmers face the brunt of Israels land confiscations, demolitions and water theft. Farmers that still have access to land and water face systematically implemented restrictions and violence.
> 
> "Israeli agricultural export companies such as Mehadrin and Hadiklaim are among the primary beneficiaries of the destruction of Palestinian agriculture, operating inside and exporting produce from illegal settlements using stolen Palestinian land and water and profiting from the siege on Gaza."
> 
> What happens when the "chosen people" run out of land and water west of the Jordan River to steal?
> Maybe Moses knows?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The land and the water are all reasons and truths --- to be sure.
> 
> But the solution rests in how the Israelis approach these important issues and the changing the the perception held by the Palestinians relative to the Israeli as a benevolent administrator.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I'm getting a sense that Israel and the Arabs have painted themselves into corners from which there's little chance of any non-violent escape? Sizable segments of both populations indoctrinate their young to believe the "other" is a sub-human specie not worthy of any moral consideration. Neither appears capable of benevolence in any form. What happens when the oil runs out?


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

To a degree, this is probably very accurate.  But, with some effort, it can be reversed.



georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge truth here.
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinian farmers face the brunt of Israels land confiscations, demolitions and water theft. Farmers that still have access to land and water face systematically implemented restrictions and violence.
> 
> "Israeli agricultural export companies such as Mehadrin and Hadiklaim are among the primary beneficiaries of the destruction of Palestinian agriculture, operating inside and exporting produce from illegal settlements using stolen Palestinian land and water and profiting from the siege on Gaza."
> 
> What happens when the "chosen people" run out of land and water west of the Jordan River to steal?
> Maybe Moses knows?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The land and the water are all reasons and truths --- to be sure.
> 
> But the solution rests in how the Israelis approach these important issues and the changing the the perception held by the Palestinians relative to the Israeli as a benevolent administrator.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm getting a sense that Israel and the Arabs have painted themselves into corners from which there's little chance of any non-violent escape? Sizable segments of both populations indoctrinate their young to believe the "other" is a sub-human specie not worthy of any moral consideration. Neither appears capable of benevolence in any form. What happens when the oil runs out?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis have to come to a decision:  Whether it is more economical and advantageous (essentially better) to set the conditions for the Occupied Territories to be exceptionally profitable and industrially/agriculturally sound - then to continuously spend on security measures that have no real return on the investment.  The Israelis have to come out - thinking outside the box.

*(EXAMPLEs)*


There are land problems that are (in part) driven by water problems.  The question existential question is whether it would be more profitable to the two cultures in the long run if Israel were to build a series of "water desalinization" facilities that can be used to irrigate and provide potable supplies to the region.  A "Blue-Green Project" for the benefit of all.  The Israelis have to transform themselves from the military power in the region, to the monumental builders of the region, like the famous Pharaohs of ancient times, investing in huge construction projects that benefit all.

Nuclear or Geothermal Power:  The Israelis build a series of either mini-power plants or geothermal turbines that provide extremely lost cost electrical energy to the Occupied Territories.

Improved Transportation Systems:  The Israelis build an interlocking transportion system for both highway and rail to enhance the infrastructure for business opportunities.

Create and Economic free-zone:  For all to use, create special economic zones connected to major hubs for the import and export of goods and services.

If you want to change the face of the conditions, which promote conflict, you have to replace it with something more valuable and envied.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not my fault if you have a problem with reading Comphrension.  Abbas was offered almost everything he wanted.  Typical Pro- Palestinian; To her a " proper offer" are the 67 Borders, giving up all rights to E. Jerusalem, and " Right of Return". It was in her prior post  That will never happen.  Still haven't " explained" why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it all his way.  BTW, *what " land" is he giving up in his " offer?"*    lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He'd let the occupying force keep some of their ill-gotten land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What land is he " willing" for the Israelis to keep?  He has clearly said several times 67 Borders or nothing.  Take a course in reading Comphrension
Click to expand...


Meaning he'd let them keep the 67 borders. Geez, were you really in an army? With a real gun?


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> He'd let the occupying force keep some of their ill-gotten land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What land is he " willing" for the Israelis to keep?  He has clearly said several times 67 Borders or nothing.  Take a course in reading Comphrension
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meaning he'd let them keep the 67 borders. Geez, were you really in an army? With a real gun?
Click to expand...



  You mean he's " negotiating" to let them keep the land that they are entitled to?  lol  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality


----------



## Jos

proudveteran06 said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't burn the candle at both ends, it's either one or the other.
> 
> You can't be an "occupational force" 45 years ago and blame the initiation of violence on arabs not accepting the '67 borders and now, 45 years later, have that same "occupational force", who now rejects the '67 borders, still blame arabs for intitiating the violence, when they now accept the '67 borders.
> 
> The biggest thing I don't like about you fuckers, is this notion that you think you can have your cake and eat it too!  And I'm the kind of mother-fucker, who'll shove that cake down your fuckin' mouth and out your ass!  I despise hypocrites!  Especially, arrogant, narcissistic, assholes like you!  Not you personally, people like you.
> 
> 
> The Arabs initiated the 67 War.  DE- NIAL is not the River.  Syria increased shooting at Israel in the Golan Heights, Syria and Egypt started to form at Israel's borders increasing their Military,  and sending the U.N. away.       The big thing I don't like about you Mother fuckers is the Notion that you believe Israel has to give in to ALL of Abbas demands; The 67 Borders that were never accepted, No rights to E. Jerusalem, Land withing the " 67 Borders" linking Gaza to the W. Bank which they obviously never had before,  and " Right of Return".   You are right about one thing; You are a MOTHER FUCKER! A Pro- Palestinian MOTHER FUCKER I will shove your Hypocrisy down your Fuckin Mouth and out your ass !  I despise Hypocrites!  Ask what Abbas is doing to " negotiate" and there is nobody home.   I despise arrogant, narcissistic, Hypocritical , assholes like you !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://Click here: Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Makes It Official: All of Israel is Palestine
> 
> The Fatah party, headed by Abbas, has made official what it has been saying more quietly and adopts a new logo: All of Israel as Palestine.
> 
> 
> AAFont Size
> By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
> First Publish: 12/30/2012, 9:09 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas with map of 'Palestine'Palestine' in background
> 
> Israel news photo: Flash 90
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah party, headed by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has made official what it has been saying quietly and has adopted a new logo showing all of Israel as Palestine.
> 
> The logo marks the 48th anniversary of the founding of Fatah by Yasser Arafat and includes a map with the PA flag and a map of Israel that appears to be a depiction of the black and white checkered kefiyah, a symbol of the violent intifada, and the slogan the state and victory."
> 
> Palestine Media Watch (PMW) revealed that the official PA daily published the new official logo.
> 
> For the past year, official PA documents have increasingly shown Palestine as covering all of Israel, but this is the first time the Fatah party has placed the map on its logo.
> 
> PMW noted, Other symbols central to Fatah ideology also appear in the logo, including a rifle and a key symbolizing the Palestinian claim of ownership to houses within Israel.
> 
> The Arab media watchdog translated and published the article announcing the new logo:
> 
> "Senior Fatah official in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Rabah, stressed that the movement this year will hold a big, central rally in the Gaza Strip on the day of the 48th anniversary of the beginning of the Palestinian revolution.
> 
> Rabah explained to Ma'an that the event will be held considering the atmosphere of reconciliation and unity that has prevailed in the Palestinian arena in the last few.
> 
> The organizing committee for the 48th anniversary of the Fatah movement approved this year's main anniversary logo... [The rally] will take place in Gaza to mark the 48th anniversary of the modern Palestinian revolution under the slogan 'the state and the victory.'"
> 
> The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) reacted to the new logo by urging President Barack Obama, the European Union and the United Nations to condemn this outrage which reiterates the clear fact that Abbas and the Fatah/PA have no interest in peace with Israel, only its destruction.
> 
> 
> They accept the " 67 Borders?" Another Pro- Palestinian lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *No link to copyrighted material *
Click to expand...


----------



## proudveteran06

Jos said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://Click here: Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Makes It Official: All of Israel is Palestine
> 
> The Fatah party, headed by Abbas, has made official what it has been saying more quietly and adopts a new logo: All of Israel as Palestine.
> 
> 
> AAFont Size
> By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
> First Publish: 12/30/2012, 9:09 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas with map of 'Palestine'Palestine' in background
> 
> Israel news photo: Flash 90
> 
> 
> 
> The Fatah party, headed by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, has made official what it has been saying quietly and has adopted a new logo showing all of Israel as Palestine.
> 
> The logo marks the 48th anniversary of the founding of Fatah by Yasser Arafat and includes a map with the PA flag and a map of Israel that appears to be a depiction of the black and white checkered kefiyah, a symbol of the violent intifada, and the slogan the state and victory."
> 
> Palestine Media Watch (PMW) revealed that the official PA daily published the new official logo.
> 
> For the past year, official PA documents have increasingly shown Palestine as covering all of Israel, but this is the first time the Fatah party has placed the map on its logo.
> 
> PMW noted, Other symbols central to Fatah ideology also appear in the logo, including a rifle and a key symbolizing the Palestinian claim of ownership to houses within Israel.
> 
> The Arab media watchdog translated and published the article announcing the new logo:
> 
> "Senior Fatah official in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Rabah, stressed that the movement this year will hold a big, central rally in the Gaza Strip on the day of the 48th anniversary of the beginning of the Palestinian revolution.
> 
> Rabah explained to Ma'an that the event will be held considering the atmosphere of reconciliation and unity that has prevailed in the Palestinian arena in the last few.
> 
> The organizing committee for the 48th anniversary of the Fatah movement approved this year's main anniversary logo... [The rally] will take place in Gaza to mark the 48th anniversary of the modern Palestinian revolution under the slogan 'the state and the victory.'"
> 
> The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) reacted to the new logo by urging President Barack Obama, the European Union and the United Nations to condemn this outrage which reiterates the clear fact that Abbas and the Fatah/PA have no interest in peace with Israel, only its destruction.
> 
> 
> They accept the " 67 Borders?" Another Pro- Palestinian lie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *No link to copyrighted material *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure why; Did it the proper way. On the other boards it was so much easier.  However if you doubt the article ,Google it yourself.    Initially the Pro- Palestinian Liar Ima claims that Abbas is " negotiating" and the Israelis aren't giving him a " real offer".   When back into a Corner she says something stupid like Abbas is " letting" Israel have the 67 Borders.   She is so stupid she doesn't realize or understand that nobody in the UN is calling for that; Not even the Arab Nations.
Click to expand...


----------



## georgephillip

"The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds on without resolution might appear to be rather strange. 

"For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement. 

"In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders -- with 'minor and mutual modifications,' to adopt official U.S. terminology before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s.

"The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas). 

"A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states.

" *Israel refused to attend the session*. 

"The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980. The record at the General Assembly since is similar."

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"


----------



## proudveteran06

georgephillip said:


> "The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds on without resolution might appear to be rather strange.
> 
> "For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement.
> 
> "In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders -- with 'minor and mutual modifications,' to adopt official U.S. terminology before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s.
> 
> "The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas).
> 
> "A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states.
> 
> " *Israel refused to attend the session*.
> 
> "The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980. The record at the General Assembly since is similar."
> 
> A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"



  " Negotiation" to the UN means Israel accept the 67 Borders that were never accepted before, have no rights in E. Jerusalem where the Palestinians can go anywhere they want within E. or W. Jerusalem, and " Right of Return".  Not going to happen.

    Abbas also wants land within the " 67 Borders" linking Gaza to the W. Bank. What is he willing to give up for it?


----------



## georgephillip

*What exactly do you remember about the mid-1970s?*
What do you think "minor and mutual modifications" means?

"The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds on without resolution might appear to be rather strange. For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement. 

"In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders -- *with 'minor and mutual modifications*, to adopt official U.S. terminology before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s."

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"


----------



## proudveteran06

proudveteran06 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds on without resolution might appear to be rather strange.
> 
> "For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement.
> 
> "In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders -- with 'minor and mutual modifications,' to adopt official U.S. terminology before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s.
> 
> "The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas).
> 
> "A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states.
> 
> " *Israel refused to attend the session*.
> 
> "The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980. The record at the General Assembly since is similar."
> 
> A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " Negotiation" to the UN means Israel accept the 67 Borders that were never accepted before, have no rights in E. Jerusalem where the Palestinians can go anywhere they want within E. or W. Jerusalem, and " Right of Return".  Not going to happen.
> 
> Abbas also wants land within the " 67 Borders" linking Gaza to the W. Bank. What is he willing to give up for it?
Click to expand...


      Still doesn't change the fact that Abbas wants borders that were never recognized before, " Right of Return" which could in time make the Jewish people a minority , NJA in E. Jerusalem, which would obviously mean the Palestinians could go anywhere in Jerusalem they wanted but not the Jews where their most religious sites are. That is not going to happen.


----------



## georgephillip

"The U.S. and Israel have been acting in tandem to extend and deepen the occupation. 

"In 2005, recognizing that it was pointless to subsidize a few thousand Israeli settlers in Gaza, who were appropriating substantial resources and protected by a large part of the Israeli army, the government of Ariel Sharon decided to move them to the much more valuable West Bank and Golan Heights.

"Instead of carrying out the operation straightforwardly, as would have been easy enough, the government decided to stage a 'national trauma,' which virtually duplicated the farce accompanying the withdrawal from the Sinai desert after the Camp David agreements of 1978-79. 

"In each case, the withdrawal permitted the cry of 'Never Again,' which meant in practice: we cannot abandon an inch of the Palestinian territories that we want to take in violation of international law." 

Jews are entitled to all the land they can steal, right?

A Middle East Peace That Could Happen (But Won't): In Washington-Speak, "Palestinian State" Means "Fried Chicken"


----------



## proudveteran06

georgephillip said:


> "The U.S. and Israel have been acting in tandem to extend and deepen the occupation.
> 
> "In 2005, recognizing that it was pointless to subsidize a few thousand Israeli settlers in Gaza, who were appropriating substantial resources and protected by a large part of the Israeli army, the government of Ariel Sharon decided to move them to the much more valuable West Bank and Golan Heights.
> 
> "Instead of carrying out the operation straightforwardly, as would have been easy enough, the government decided to stage a 'national trauma,' which virtually duplicated the farce accompanying the withdrawal from the Sinai desert after the Camp David agreements of 1978-79.
> 
> "In each case, the withdrawal permitted the cry of 'Never Again,' which meant in practice: we cannot abandon an inch of the Palestinian territories that we want to take in violation of international law."
> 
> Jews are entitled to all the land they can steal, right?
> 
> 
> Israel will not have the " 67 Borders" that the Arabs refused to recognize before, " Right of Return", and no rights in E. Jerusalem.  You accuse the Jews of stealing land?  The Arabs should have respected " International Law"   lol   before 1967


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What land is he " willing" for the Israelis to keep?  He has clearly said several times 67 Borders or nothing.  Take a course in reading Comphrension
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning he'd let them keep the 67 borders. Geez, were you really in an army? With a real gun?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean he's " negotiating" to let them keep the land that they are entitled to?  lol  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality
Click to expand...

It's assholes like you who make me not care so much if Israel gets nuked. You seem to want it so much, then have it.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning he'd let them keep the 67 borders. Geez, were you really in an army? With a real gun?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean he's " negotiating" to let them keep the land that they are entitled to?  lol  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's assholes like you who make me not care so much if Israel gets nuked. You seem to want it so much, then have it.
Click to expand...


 It's assholes like you who claim Abbas is " negotiating" by letting Israel have some of his land then when asked what " land"  there is no response.  It's assholes like you who claim that if Abbas doesn't get it all his way the Arabs will initiate WW 111 and when asked why there is no response . Typical Pro- Palestinian Ass- Hole


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean he's " negotiating" to let them keep the land that they are entitled to?  lol  Typical Pro- Palestinian Mentality
> 
> 
> 
> It's assholes like you who make me not care so much if Israel gets nuked. You seem to want it so much, then have it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's assholes like you who claim Abbas is " negotiating" by letting Israel have some of his land then when asked what " land"  there is no response.  It's assholes like you who claim that if Abbas doesn't get it all his way the Arabs will initiate WW 111 and when asked why there is no response . Typical Pro- Palestinian Ass- Hole
Click to expand...


Israel has still NEVER made a real peace offer that's anywhere near what the arabs would accept. Anyways, if a lot of Israelis agree with you and are as obnoxiously arrogant as you are, then it's probably for the better that you folks don't make peace and get nuked.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's assholes like you who make me not care so much if Israel gets nuked. You seem to want it so much, then have it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's assholes like you who claim Abbas is " negotiating" by letting Israel have some of his land then when asked what " land"  there is no response.  It's assholes like you who claim that if Abbas doesn't get it all his way the Arabs will initiate WW 111 and when asked why there is no response . Typical Pro- Palestinian Ass- Hole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has still NEVER made a real peace offer that's anywhere near what the arabs would accept. Anyways, if a lot of Israelis agree with you and are as obnoxiously arrogant as you are, then it's probably for the better that you folks don't make peace and get nuked.
Click to expand...



  You admitted in your prior posts that a " real peace offer" would be the 67 Borders that were never recognized or accepted or " Right of Return!"   lol    Then you LIED and denied Abbas was insisting on getting things ALL his way and stated he was giving up land. When challenged on that of course there was nobody home.  Still haven't told us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get things ALL his way.   I repeat; At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and they will initiate WW 111 !


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's assholes like you who claim Abbas is " negotiating" by letting Israel have some of his land then when asked what " land"  there is no response.  It's assholes like you who claim that if Abbas doesn't get it all his way the Arabs will initiate WW 111 and when asked why there is no response . Typical Pro- Palestinian Ass- Hole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has still NEVER made a real peace offer that's anywhere near what the arabs would accept. Anyways, if a lot of Israelis agree with you and are as obnoxiously arrogant as you are, then it's probably for the better that you folks don't make peace and get nuked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted in your prior posts that a " real peace offer" would be the 67 Borders that were never recognized or accepted or " Right of Return!"   lol    Then you LIED and denied Abbas was insisting on getting things ALL his way and stated he was giving up land. When challenged on that of course there was nobody home.  Still haven't told us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get things ALL his way.   I repeat; At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and they will initiate WW 111 !
Click to expand...


Like I've already said, you'll have 4 nanoseconds before the nuclear shock wave hits you to figure out who's fault is was that you're about to become dust. In other words, it'll be the Israelis fault for not making peace. So you'll have 4 nanoseconds to think about it.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has still NEVER made a real peace offer that's anywhere near what the arabs would accept. Anyways, if a lot of Israelis agree with you and are as obnoxiously arrogant as you are, then it's probably for the better that you folks don't make peace and get nuked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted in your prior posts that a " real peace offer" would be the 67 Borders that were never recognized or accepted or " Right of Return!"   lol    Then you LIED and denied Abbas was insisting on getting things ALL his way and stated he was giving up land. When challenged on that of course there was nobody home.  Still haven't told us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get things ALL his way.   I repeat; At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and they will initiate WW 111 !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I've already said, you'll have 4 nanoseconds before the nuclear shock wave hits you to figure out who's fault is was that you're about to become dust. In other words, it'll be the Israelis fault for not making peace. So you'll have 4 nanoseconds to think about it.
Click to expand...


So you finally admit you're a liar; Abbas isn't offering any "land" refuses to"negotiate"it's either all his way or no way! Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get his way 100 percent. At least you finally admit the Arabs are the Agressors who will initiate WW3 !!!! 

N


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted in your prior posts that a " real peace offer" would be the 67 Borders that were never recognized or accepted or " Right of Return!"   lol    Then you LIED and denied Abbas was insisting on getting things ALL his way and stated he was giving up land. When challenged on that of course there was nobody home.  Still haven't told us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get things ALL his way.   I repeat; At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and they will initiate WW 111 !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I've already said, you'll have 4 nanoseconds before the nuclear shock wave hits you to figure out who's fault is was that you're about to become dust. In other words, it'll be the Israelis fault for not making peace. So you'll have 4 nanoseconds to think about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you finally admit you're a liar; Abbas isn't offering any "land" refuses to"negotiate"it's either all his way or no way! Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get his way 100 percent. At least you finally admit the Arabs are the Agressors who will initiate WW3 !!!!
> 
> N
Click to expand...

You don't seem to get it, it doesn't matter if I'm a liar or not. If Israel doesn't make peace, you'll get nuked eventually.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I've already said, you'll have 4 nanoseconds before the nuclear shock wave hits you to figure out who's fault is was that you're about to become dust. In other words, it'll be the Israelis fault for not making peace. So you'll have 4 nanoseconds to think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you finally admit you're a liar; Abbas isn't offering any "land" refuses to"negotiate"it's either all his way or no way! Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get his way 100 percent. At least you finally admit the Arabs are the Agressors who will initiate WW3 !!!!
> 
> N
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't seem to get it, it doesn't matter if I'm a liar or not. If Israel doesn't make peace, you'll get nuked eventually.
Click to expand...


Translation ; Israel has to make all the concessions  yet you claim they aren't offering enough?  The latter suggests you're " familiar" with their offers then.Since you're so familiar with what the Israelis have offered you should be just as familiar with what the Palestinians have offered. You claim you don't know? Google it and let us know. Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get everything his way or what "land" he is giving up. Another Pro Palestinian liar


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you finally admit you're a liar; Abbas isn't offering any "land" refuses to"negotiate"it's either all his way or no way! Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get his way 100 percent. At least you finally admit the Arabs are the Agressors who will initiate WW3 !!!!
> 
> N
> 
> 
> 
> You don't seem to get it, it doesn't matter if I'm a liar or not. If Israel doesn't make peace, you'll get nuked eventually.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; Israel has to make all the concessions  yet you claim they aren't offering enough?  The latter suggests you're " familiar" with their offers then.Since you're so familiar with what the Israelis have offered you should be just as familiar with what the Palestinians have offered. You claim you don't know? Google it and let us know. Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get everything his way or what "land" he is giving up. Another Pro Palestinian liar
Click to expand...

Buddy, you're getting mad at the messenger, you should be mad at your leaders for not making peace with your neighbours. Nukes are getting closer every day.


----------



## Hossfly

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't seem to get it, it doesn't matter if I'm a liar or not. If Israel doesn't make peace, you'll get nuked eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation ; Israel has to make all the concessions  yet you claim they aren't offering enough?  The latter suggests you're " familiar" with their offers then.Since you're so familiar with what the Israelis have offered you should be just as familiar with what the Palestinians have offered. You claim you don't know? Google it and let us know. Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get everything his way or what "land" he is giving up. Another Pro Palestinian liar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buddy, you're getting mad at the messenger, you should be mad at your leaders for not making peace with your neighbours. Nukes are getting closer every day.
Click to expand...

The only possibility of a nuke is if some Islamic terrorists get hold of a bomb. They won't hesitate to use one. So you can stop fantasizing about mushroom clouds over Tel Aviv.


----------



## ima

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation ; Israel has to make all the concessions  yet you claim they aren't offering enough?  The latter suggests you're " familiar" with their offers then.Since you're so familiar with what the Israelis have offered you should be just as familiar with what the Palestinians have offered. You claim you don't know? Google it and let us know. Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get everything his way or what "land" he is giving up. Another Pro Palestinian liar
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy, you're getting mad at the messenger, you should be mad at your leaders for not making peace with your neighbours. Nukes are getting closer every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only possibility of a nuke is if some Islamic terrorists get hold of a bomb. They won't hesitate to use one. So you can stop fantasizing about mushroom clouds over Tel Aviv.
Click to expand...

Again, you're shooting the messenger. I'm only saying out loud what's up because vet's in danger from "some Islamic terrorists get hold of a bomb". Did you know that they have friends in Iran among other places?


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't seem to get it, it doesn't matter if I'm a liar or not. If Israel doesn't make peace, you'll get nuked eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation ; Israel has to make all the concessions  yet you claim they aren't offering enough?  The latter suggests you're " familiar" with their offers then.Since you're so familiar with what the Israelis have offered you should be just as familiar with what the Palestinians have offered. You claim you don't know? Google it and let us know. Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get everything his way or what "land" he is giving up. Another Pro Palestinian liar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buddy, you're getting mad at the messenger, you should be mad at your leaders for not making peace with your neighbours. Nukes are getting closer every day.
Click to expand...


    You have it backwards.   lol  I would be furious if they gave in to Abbas. I would be angry if they went back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, forfeited ALL Rights to E. Jerusalem and granted " Right of Return" which would eventually make the Israelis minorities in their own Country.   At least you realize the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation ; Israel has to make all the concessions  yet you claim they aren't offering enough?  The latter suggests you're " familiar" with their offers then.Since you're so familiar with what the Israelis have offered you should be just as familiar with what the Palestinians have offered. You claim you don't know? Google it and let us know. Still haven't told us why Israel should get nuked if Abbas doesn't get everything his way or what "land" he is giving up. Another Pro Palestinian liar
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy, you're getting mad at the messenger, you should be mad at your leaders for not making peace with your neighbours. Nukes are getting closer every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have it backwards.   lol  I would be furious if they gave in to Abbas. I would be angry if they went back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, forfeited ALL Rights to E. Jerusalem and granted " Right of Return" which would eventually make the Israelis minorities in their own Country.   At least you realize the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3
Click to expand...

I just wanted to let you know what could happen if peace is never achieved. You seem ok with getting nuked and are more worried about assessing blame. I'm good with that.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy, you're getting mad at the messenger, you should be mad at your leaders for not making peace with your neighbours. Nukes are getting closer every day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have it backwards.   lol  I would be furious if they gave in to Abbas. I would be angry if they went back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, forfeited ALL Rights to E. Jerusalem and granted " Right of Return" which would eventually make the Israelis minorities in their own Country.   At least you realize the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just wanted to let you know what could happen if peace is never achieved. You seem ok with getting nuked and are more worried about assessing blame. I'm good with that.
Click to expand...


    At least you acknowledge that the Arabs will initiate WW 3 because of their agression , their hate, and their failure to " negotiate".  Still haven't told us what " land" Abbas is giving away or why Israel will get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get everything he demands.  There will be no response.  Consider the source


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have it backwards.   lol  I would be furious if they gave in to Abbas. I would be angry if they went back to Borders that were never recognized or respected, forfeited ALL Rights to E. Jerusalem and granted " Right of Return" which would eventually make the Israelis minorities in their own Country.   At least you realize the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to let you know what could happen if peace is never achieved. You seem ok with getting nuked and are more worried about assessing blame. I'm good with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least you acknowledge that the Arabs will initiate WW 3 because of their agression , their hate, and their failure to " negotiate".  Still haven't told us what " land" Abbas is giving away or why Israel will get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get everything he demands.  There will be no response.  Consider the source
Click to expand...


That is not what she said.


----------



## ima

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to let you know what could happen if peace is never achieved. You seem ok with getting nuked and are more worried about assessing blame. I'm good with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least you acknowledge that the Arabs will initiate WW 3 because of their agression , their hate, and their failure to " negotiate".  Still haven't told us what " land" Abbas is giving away or why Israel will get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get everything he demands.  There will be no response.  Consider the source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not what she said.
Click to expand...


He knows. He just has nothing else.


----------



## irosie91

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to let you know what could happen if peace is never achieved. You seem ok with getting nuked and are more worried about assessing blame. I'm good with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least you acknowledge that the Arabs will initiate WW 3 because of their agression , their hate, and their failure to " negotiate".  Still haven't told us what " land" Abbas is giving away or why Israel will get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get everything he demands.  There will be no response.  Consider the source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not what she said.
Click to expand...



she said what the isa respecters have been saying for  1700 years---
"EITHER YOU LICK OUR SHIT OR YOU DIE"


----------



## Fishlore

The prophesy that "Israel is here to stay" has a certain wry irony to it because Israel has been one of the most on-again-off-again nations the world has ever seen. Before the Romans scattered it the four winds, Nebuchadnezzar dragged it off to Babylon and before that the Pharaoh subsumed it into Egypt. Israel has been destroyed and born again many times, a will-o-the-wisp province surrounded by the far more stable nations of Egypt, Syria and Persia (Iran).

The most recent incarnation of Israel, dating from 1948, is one of several Crusader states, colonies established by Western military power and populated by immigrants whose ancestral connection to Judea is, in most cases, sketchy or non-existent. Crusader states like Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem usually last a couple of centuries, so the current iteration of Israel is just a flash in the pan, at least so far.

Memories go way back in the Middle East. That is a region in which history kills people. The Arab word, which regards Israel as a Crusader state of dubious legitimacy, has precedent to support its view that this latest Kingdom of Jerusalem is just a passing phase.


----------



## ima

irosie91 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least you acknowledge that the Arabs will initiate WW 3 because of their agression , their hate, and their failure to " negotiate".  Still haven't told us what " land" Abbas is giving away or why Israel will get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get everything he demands.  There will be no response.  Consider the source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is not what she said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> she said what the isa respecters have been saying for  1700 years---
> "EITHER YOU LICK OUR SHIT OR YOU DIE"
Click to expand...

So who's ever licked YOUR shit?


----------



## irosie91

Fishlore said:


> The prophesy that "Israel is here to stay" has a certain wry irony to it because Israel has been one of the most on-again-off-again nations the world has ever seen. Before the Romans scattered it the four winds, Nebuchadnezzar dragged it off to Babylon and before that the Pharaoh subsumed it into Egypt. Israel has been destroyed and born again many times, a will-o-the-wisp province surrounded by the far more stable nations of Egypt, Syria and Persia (Iran).
> 
> The most recent incarnation of Israel, dating from 1948, is one of several Crusader states, colonies established by Western military power and populated by immigrants whose ancestral connection to Judea is, in most cases, sketchy or non-existent. Crusader states like Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem usually last a couple of centuries, so the current iteration of Israel is just a flash in the pan, at least so far.
> 
> Memories go way back in the Middle East. That is a region in which history kills people. The Arab word, which regards Israel as a Crusader state of dubious legitimacy, has precedent to support its view that this latest Kingdom of Jerusalem is just a passing phase.




   In fact---memories do not go "way back"  in the middle east since most of the 
events  WAY BACK   left no surviving nations to remember.    HISTORY goes back 
as far as the survivors of this or that group recorded it----and other history is 
that of non-extant peoples pieced together on the garbage they left behind..

   Islamic memory goes back----very little ----at the VERY MOST  1400 years and 
even that sketchy and unreliably.    and very FANTASTICALLY-

Christian memory more like   1700 years     Zoroastrian memory is virtually 
a moot point.    Hindu memory is a bit longer----but that is not the middle east--
Jewish memory---a bit sketchy way back there ----but reaching 4000 years.  
The people of the NILE valley---the KINGDOMS of the pharoahs  have a 
an available history----but that culture is gone as is the culture of Mesopotamia 
and no one calls it a memory.   A people is not a people without a  HISTORY 
which is THEIRS     even the greeks are no longer greeks and the people of 
ITALY  are certainly not of   ROMA .    The only people with a long and 
CONTINUOUS history in the middle east are   THE JEWS


----------



## toastman

Fishlore said:


> The prophesy that "Israel is here to stay" has a certain wry irony to it because Israel has been one of the most on-again-off-again nations the world has ever seen. Before the Romans scattered it the four winds, Nebuchadnezzar dragged it off to Babylon and before that the Pharaoh subsumed it into Egypt. Israel has been destroyed and born again many times, a will-o-the-wisp province surrounded by the far more stable nations of Egypt, Syria and Persia (Iran).
> 
> The most recent incarnation of Israel, dating from 1948, is one of several Crusader states, colonies established by Western military power and populated by immigrants whose ancestral connection to Judea is, in most cases, sketchy or non-existent. Crusader states like Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem usually last a couple of centuries, so the current iteration of Israel is just a flash in the pan, at least so far.
> 
> Memories go way back in the Middle East. That is a region in which history kills people. The Arab word, which regards Israel as a Crusader state of dubious legitimacy, has precedent to support its view that this latest Kingdom of Jerusalem is just a passing phase.



Yes, but a few things to understand.
Unlike thousands of years ago, Israel now has the most advanced and trained army in the Middle East (some say the world) unlike back then. 
Also, we're in the 21st century dude. Countries don't just get destroyed anymore lol.


----------



## proudveteran06

irosie91 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least you acknowledge that the Arabs will initiate WW 3 because of their agression , their hate, and their failure to " negotiate".  Still haven't told us what " land" Abbas is giving away or why Israel will get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get everything he demands.  There will be no response.  Consider the source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is not what she said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> she said what the isa respecters have been saying for  1700 years---
> "EITHER YOU LICK OUR SHIT OR YOU DIE"
Click to expand...



   Rose,

       Seriously,  You have to consider the source.   This is what she posted a few days ago.

What land is he " willing" for the Israelis to keep? He has clearly said several times 67 Borders or nothing. Take a course in reading Comphrension

 The above was my question   Below is her answer 

 Meaning he'd let them keep the 67 borders.

    She is so stupid she honestly believes he is " negotiating" by letting Israel " keep " them.  She is too stupid to realize that the " 67 Borders" are allegedly the " International Borders" and that Abbas CAN'T ask for more !    Even if he wanted to nobody else is calling for that.  Not even the Arab League or the U.N. 

   Ask any Pro- Palestinian what Abbas has done to " negotiate" and there will never be a response


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> Ask any Pro- Palestinian what Abbas has done to " negotiate" and there will never be a response



Arabs are building nukes, that's their negotiation. Israel has until they finish building them to settle. Seems pretty fair to me after what Israel has done to them. Personally, I'd take the deal and end the occupation. Peace is always better than getting nuked.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask any Pro- Palestinian what Abbas has done to " negotiate" and there will never be a response
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are building nukes, that's their negotiation. Israel has until they finish building them to settle. Seems pretty fair to me after what Israel has done to them. Personally, I'd take the deal and end the occupation. Peace is always better than getting nuked.
Click to expand...



   There we go again; The ignorant one first claiming that Abbas is giving them "land" not even realizing that the  " 67 Borders" that never existed are the " recognized borders" ( even though they aren't).    Abbas CAN'T ask for more; he is not " letting" Israel have that land. NOBODY in the U.N. is calling for it  lol    At least she admits it's the Arabs who are the Agressors and will initiate WW 111 .


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask any Pro- Palestinian what Abbas has done to " negotiate" and there will never be a response
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are building nukes, that's their negotiation. Israel has until they finish building them to settle. Seems pretty fair to me after what Israel has done to them. Personally, I'd take the deal and end the occupation. Peace is always better than getting nuked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There we go again; The ignorant one first claiming that Abbas is giving them "land" not even realizing that the  " 67 Borders" that never existed are the " recognized borders" ( even though they aren't).    Abbas CAN'T ask for more; he is not " letting" Israel have that land. NOBODY in the U.N. is calling for it  lol    At least she admits it's the Arabs who are the Agressors and will initiate WW 111 .
Click to expand...


Israel started the war, the arabs are just continuing what the Jews started. As the aggressors and occupyers, the Jews need to decide whether they want peace or continued war, meaning getting nuked.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prophesy that "Israel is here to stay" has a certain wry irony to it because Israel has been one of the most on-again-off-again nations the world has ever seen. Before the Romans scattered it the four winds, Nebuchadnezzar dragged it off to Babylon and before that the Pharaoh subsumed it into Egypt. Israel has been destroyed and born again many times, a will-o-the-wisp province surrounded by the far more stable nations of Egypt, Syria and Persia (Iran).
> 
> The most recent incarnation of Israel, dating from 1948, is one of several Crusader states, colonies established by Western military power and populated by immigrants whose ancestral connection to Judea is, in most cases, sketchy or non-existent. Crusader states like Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem usually last a couple of centuries, so the current iteration of Israel is just a flash in the pan, at least so far.
> 
> Memories go way back in the Middle East. That is a region in which history kills people. The Arab word, which regards Israel as a Crusader state of dubious legitimacy, has precedent to support its view that this latest Kingdom of Jerusalem is just a passing phase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but a few things to understand.
> Unlike thousands of years ago, Israel now has the most advanced and trained army in the Middle East (some say the world) unlike back then.
> Also, we're in the 21st century dude. Countries don't just get destroyed anymore lol.
Click to expand...


And Israel's biggest threat is unarmed civilians.

What good is all that crap going to do them?


----------



## irosie91

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fishlore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prophesy that "Israel is here to stay" has a certain wry irony to it because Israel has been one of the most on-again-off-again nations the world has ever seen. Before the Romans scattered it the four winds, Nebuchadnezzar dragged it off to Babylon and before that the Pharaoh subsumed it into Egypt. Israel has been destroyed and born again many times, a will-o-the-wisp province surrounded by the far more stable nations of Egypt, Syria and Persia (Iran).
> 
> The most recent incarnation of Israel, dating from 1948, is one of several Crusader states, colonies established by Western military power and populated by immigrants whose ancestral connection to Judea is, in most cases, sketchy or non-existent. Crusader states like Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem usually last a couple of centuries, so the current iteration of Israel is just a flash in the pan, at least so far.
> 
> Memories go way back in the Middle East. That is a region in which history kills people. The Arab word, which regards Israel as a Crusader state of dubious legitimacy, has precedent to support its view that this latest Kingdom of Jerusalem is just a passing phase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but a few things to understand.
> Unlike thousands of years ago, Israel now has the most advanced and trained army in the Middle East (some say the world) unlike back then.
> Also, we're in the 21st century dude. Countries don't just get destroyed anymore lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Israel's biggest threat is unarmed civilians.
> 
> What good is all that crap going to do them?
Click to expand...



   the "unarmed civilian"   ploy of the   infant throat slitting  ISA RESPECTING crowd 
   is not new.      In fact it is a concept  well known in isa-respecting debate for many 
   decades.     AL AZHAR   koranic scholars----determined    DECADES AGO---in fact,,  
   something like 5 decades ago that slitting the throats of  Israeli infants is absolutely 
   legal based on the concept that Israel has a universal draft so that a 3 month 
   old can be considered   a  soldier.    By dint of the same elegant logic ----back in the 
   60s -----the same organization determined that  hijacking  airplanes or violence on 
   the tarmac ----by   UNUNIFORMED   nabi ass lickers   is absolutely legal 
   because they represent no    ORGANIZATION ------if they either die or get away---
   no one can be BLAMED.      Some may have missed it----but it is a fact that tinnie's 
   people did  explain that since the   ISA RESPECTERS    who  enacted the GLORIOUS 
   FOR ALLAH ISA, AND THE RAPIST PIG ----mass murder of  9-11-01 ---
   ALL DIED in the act and wore no uniforms------the MATTER IS CLOSED 

   Thus tinnie agrees that   stabbings in the street ---blowing the brains out of children--
   etc etc    is  a LEGAL ACT OF UNARMED CITIZENS----completely closed if the perpetrator
   gets away of dies in the act. -----but legal anyway even if he does not

   I was introduced to the logic of these arguments by an isa-repecting pakistani 
   surgeon more than  40 years ago

   Drones are an excellent answer  to the glorious   ISA RESPECTER   logic---so long 
   as they are unmarked and launched by unnamed persons----all legal


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

proudveteran06 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not what she said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she said what the isa respecters have been saying for  1700 years---
> "EITHER YOU LICK OUR SHIT OR YOU DIE"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Rose,
> 
> Seriously,  You have to consider the source.   This is what she posted a few days ago.
> 
> What land is he " willing" for the Israelis to keep? He has clearly said several times 67 Borders or nothing. Take a course in reading Comphrension
> 
> The above was my question   Below is her answer
> 
> Meaning he'd let them keep the 67 borders.
> 
> She is so stupid she honestly believes he is " negotiating" by letting Israel " keep " them.  She is too stupid to realize that the " 67 Borders" are allegedly the " International Borders" and that Abbas CAN'T ask for more !    Even if he wanted to nobody else is calling for that.  Not even the Arab League or the U.N.
> 
> Ask any Pro- Palestinian what Abbas has done to " negotiate" and there will never be a response
Click to expand...


67 borders & right of return.


----------



## iolo

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



It might see me out, but I doubt it.   Remember those mighty crusader states and the zionist model, the Thousand Year Reich.   Nazis and other colonists always crap  it up because they are racists and treat the rest of the world as expendable gas-chambeer fodder.


----------



## irosie91

iolo said:


> []
> 
> 
> 
> It might see me out, but I doubt it.   Remember those mighty crusader states and the zionist model, the Thousand Year Reich.   Nazis and other colonists always crap  it up because they are racists and treat the rest of the world as expendable gas-chambeer fodder.




    I agree with you that totalitarian imperialist WORLD agendas are doomed to failure.

historically----they have all failed   FROM BABYLON   thru  ALEXANDER  thru the 
the first two holy roman empire   (reichs)      thru the FINAL MONSTER THIRD REICH---
and ---the  COMMUNIST EMPIRES  ----and the most brutal of all----the  ISLAMIC EMPIRE 
is crumbling from within.     Israel has fallen to attackers many times----but it has 
never crumbled from within and its nationhood was preserved even without a home base--
for a very important reason------it has never been IMPERIALISTIC or GENOCIDAL 
     the most important  "preservative"    of ISRAEL  can be found in the INSISTENT 
     words of  a  "prophet" ----EZRA


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are building nukes, that's their negotiation. Israel has until they finish building them to settle. Seems pretty fair to me after what Israel has done to them. Personally, I'd take the deal and end the occupation. Peace is always better than getting nuked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There we go again; The ignorant one first claiming that Abbas is giving them "land" not even realizing that the  " 67 Borders" that never existed are the " recognized borders" ( even though they aren't).    Abbas CAN'T ask for more; he is not " letting" Israel have that land. NOBODY in the U.N. is calling for it  lol    At least she admits it's the Arabs who are the Agressors and will initiate WW 111 .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel started the war, the arabs are just continuing what the Jews started. As the aggressors and occupyers, the Jews need to decide whether they want peace or continued war, meaning getting nuked.
Click to expand...


  Another Pro- Palestinian lie.  The Arabs initiated the 67 War because they couldn't stand Israel's right to exist. Until this time Israel was denied all access into E. Jerusalem, something they should have had access to since 1948 .  You keep " claiming" Abbas is offering " land".  Google it and let us know.   You claim that Abbas isn't demanding it be ALL his way.... Documentation please.   Still can't/ refuse to tell us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it ALL his way.  I repeat... At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3 like they INITIATED all the other Wars


----------



## Hossfly

Fishlore said:


> The prophesy that "Israel is here to stay" has a certain wry irony to it because Israel has been one of the most on-again-off-again nations the world has ever seen. Before the Romans scattered it the four winds, Nebuchadnezzar dragged it off to Babylon and before that the Pharaoh subsumed it into Egypt. Israel has been destroyed and born again many times, a will-o-the-wisp province surrounded by the far more stable nations of Egypt, Syria and Persia (Iran).
> 
> The most recent incarnation of Israel, dating from 1948, is one of several Crusader states, colonies established by Western military power and populated by immigrants whose ancestral connection to Judea is, in most cases, sketchy or non-existent. Crusader states like Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem usually last a couple of centuries, so the current iteration of Israel is just a flash in the pan, at least so far.
> 
> Memories go way back in the Middle East. That is a region in which history kills people. The Arab word, which regards Israel as a Crusader state of dubious legitimacy, has precedent to support its view that this latest Kingdom of Jerusalem is just a passing phase.


What consideration has the Ayrab World given to what the US will be doing while Israel is in this "passing phase?"


----------



## American_Jihad

*Who Wants a Third Intifada? *

Posted: 02/27/2013 
Dr. Josef Olmert

Predicting troubles in the Middle East in general, and with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian situation in particular, is a safe bet. This is the region of the world where troubles are the rule, and good news is the exception. So, there is nothing new about predicting/anticipating a third Palestinian intifada against the Israelis, and with it all hell will break loose, and the West Bank and Israel itself will yet again become the arena of suffering, bloodshed and shuttered hopes. Well, not so fast. Maybe -- I should say hopefully -- not now, not again.

*The immediate catalyst to the repeated talks about a new intifada is the unfortunate death of a Palestinian detainee, Arafat Jaradat, in the Megiddo Jail in Northern Israel.*
[ I wonder if the Israeli's gave out sweets like the islamic beasts do when they murder an Israeli family???]

...

Dr. Josef Olmert: Who Wants a Third Intifada?


----------



## P F Tinmore

American_Jihad said:


> *Who Wants a Third Intifada? *
> 
> Posted: 02/27/2013
> Dr. Josef Olmert
> 
> Predicting troubles in the Middle East in general, and with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian situation in particular, is a safe bet. This is the region of the world where troubles are the rule, and good news is the exception. So, there is nothing new about predicting/anticipating a third Palestinian intifada against the Israelis, and with it all hell will break loose, and the West Bank and Israel itself will yet again become the arena of suffering, bloodshed and shuttered hopes. Well, not so fast. Maybe -- I should say hopefully -- not now, not again.
> 
> *The immediate catalyst to the repeated talks about a new intifada is the unfortunate death of a Palestinian detainee, Arafat Jaradat, in the Megiddo Jail in Northern Israel.*
> [ I wonder if the Israeli's gave out sweets like the islamic beasts do when they murder an Israeli family???]
> 
> ...
> 
> Dr. Josef Olmert: Who Wants a Third Intifada?



Nobody wants another intifada.

No justice-no peace.


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There we go again; The ignorant one first claiming that Abbas is giving them "land" not even realizing that the  " 67 Borders" that never existed are the " recognized borders" ( even though they aren't).    Abbas CAN'T ask for more; he is not " letting" Israel have that land. NOBODY in the U.N. is calling for it  lol    At least she admits it's the Arabs who are the Agressors and will initiate WW 111 .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel started the war, the arabs are just continuing what the Jews started. As the aggressors and occupyers, the Jews need to decide whether they want peace or continued war, meaning getting nuked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie.  The Arabs initiated the 67 War because they couldn't stand Israel's right to exist. Until this time Israel was denied all access into E. Jerusalem, something they should have had access to since 1948 .  You keep " claiming" Abbas is offering " land".  Google it and let us know.   You claim that Abbas isn't demanding it be ALL his way.... Documentation please.   Still can't/ refuse to tell us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it ALL his way.  I repeat... At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3 like they INITIATED all the other Wars
Click to expand...

You going to keep repeating the same lies every time I post something? Go for it. You're talking to someone who actually knows the truth of what happened. The arabs didn't start a war to establish a zionist state. I'm pretty sure even you know that.


----------



## proudveteran06

ima said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel started the war, the arabs are just continuing what the Jews started. As the aggressors and occupyers, the Jews need to decide whether they want peace or continued war, meaning getting nuked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie.  The Arabs initiated the 67 War because they couldn't stand Israel's right to exist. Until this time Israel was denied all access into E. Jerusalem, something they should have had access to since 1948 .  You keep " claiming" Abbas is offering " land".  Google it and let us know.   You claim that Abbas isn't demanding it be ALL his way.... Documentation please.   Still can't/ refuse to tell us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it ALL his way.  I repeat... At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3 like they INITIATED all the other Wars
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You going to keep repeating the same lies every time I post something? Go for it. You're talking to someone who actually knows the truth of what happened. The arabs didn't start a war to establish a zionist state. I'm pretty sure even you know that.
Click to expand...


You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3


----------



## P F Tinmore

proudveteran06 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro- Palestinian lie.  The Arabs initiated the 67 War because they couldn't stand Israel's right to exist. Until this time Israel was denied all access into E. Jerusalem, something they should have had access to since 1948 .  You keep " claiming" Abbas is offering " land".  Google it and let us know.   You claim that Abbas isn't demanding it be ALL his way.... Documentation please.   Still can't/ refuse to tell us why Israel should get " nuked" if Abbas doesn't get it ALL his way.  I repeat... At least you admit the Arabs are the Agressors and will initiate WW 3 like they INITIATED all the other Wars
> 
> 
> 
> You going to keep repeating the same lies every time I post something? Go for it. You're talking to someone who actually knows the truth of what happened. The arabs didn't start a war to establish a zionist state. I'm pretty sure even you know that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3
Click to expand...


Abbas is irrelevant. He left the government in June of 2007 and his elected term in office expired in January of 2009.


----------



## iolo

Why do people talk about 'Israel's right to exist'?   It is like going on about the Third Reich's right to exist.   The colonists are, by and large, the non-believing descendants of converts, and even if they weren't, who believes what half-baked history tells us about the distant past gives us the right to steal some land?   Of course 'Israel' has no right to exist, though the colonists as people have - except, of course, the war criminals, who should, like their German models be tried and, if guilty, hanged.


----------



## MHunterB

iolo said:


> Why do people talk about 'Israel's right to exist'?   It is like going on about the Third Reich's right to exist.   The colonists are, by and large, the non-believing descendants of converts, and even if they weren't, who believes what half-baked history tells us about the distant past gives us the right to steal some land?   Of course 'Israel' has no right to exist, though the colonists as people have - except, of course, the war criminals, who should, like their German models be tried and, if guilty, hanged.



And every one of your 'statements' above is inaccurate or false or an outright lie.  Israel DOES exist:  the UN accepted its existence.  So although you're welcome to not like the fact - just disagreeing with Israel doesn't give others the right to attack its citizens repeatedly.  Or to attack and murder other Jewish people around the world.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> You going to keep repeating the same lies every time I post something? Go for it. You're talking to someone who actually knows the truth of what happened. The arabs didn't start a war to establish a zionist state. I'm pretty sure even you know that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abbas is irrelevant. He left the government in June of 2007 and his elected term in office expired in January of 2009.
Click to expand...

Right, and Ariel Sharon is still directing traffic in Israel. Do you ever read or listen to the news?


----------



## toastman

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is irrelevant. He left the government in June of 2007 and his elected term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right, and Ariel Sharon is still directing traffic in Israel. Do you ever read or listen to the news?
Click to expand...


Yes he does. From here     Palestine Chronicle | Latest News, Palestine, Middle East, Commentary & Analysis

haha


----------



## proudveteran06

P F Tinmore said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> You going to keep repeating the same lies every time I post something? Go for it. You're talking to someone who actually knows the truth of what happened. The arabs didn't start a war to establish a zionist state. I'm pretty sure even you know that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abbas is irrelevant. He left the government in June of 2007 and his elected term in office expired in January of 2009.
Click to expand...



 He was irrelevant from the Day he was elected just like any other " Palestinian President"    lol    will be.


----------



## ima

proudveteran06 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is irrelevant. He left the government in June of 2007 and his elected term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He was irrelevant from the Day he was elected just like any other " Palestinian President"    lol    will be.
Click to expand...

ALMOST as irrelevant as you.


----------



## American_Jihad

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is irrelevant. He left the government in June of 2007 and his elected term in office expired in January of 2009.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right, and Ariel Sharon is still directing traffic in Israel. Do you ever read or listen to the news?
Click to expand...


Not traffic, he's a waiter at the smoked grill serving up smoked yassin...

xXx WARNING xXx morbid picture HERE...


----------



## proudveteran06

Jos said:


> But not in it's present form



No going back to borders that were never recognized or respected, no "Right of Return"


----------



## georgephillip

proudveteran06 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> But not in it's present form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No going back to borders that were never recognized or respected, no "Right of Return"
Click to expand...

How about a right to vote in Israeli elections for all Arabs under living Jewish laws between the River and the sea? Jewish State or Democratic State?


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> But not in it's present form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No going back to borders that were never recognized or respected, no "Right of Return"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about a right to vote in Israeli elections for all Arabs under living Jewish laws between the River and the sea? Jewish State or Democratic State?
Click to expand...



PROBLEM SOLVED_---and by muslims of all people.    Maldives is a 
DEMOCRACY ---which a few years ago  DEMOCRATICALLY voted 
to restrict  citizenship TO MUSLIMS ONLY----all non muslims 
were simply stripped of citizenship.      I was a messageboard 
person back then-----and back then ---noted that people like you 
SUPPORTED THE DEMOCRATIC RIGHT OF MALDIVES TO 
DEMOCRATICALLY VOTE itself a muslim only land.   
It is just a matter of making it so by a careful adjustment.
The shariah shit hole in which my husband was born is 
ALSO a democracy-----several years ago when there 
were still jews there----a forward thinking young muslim 
politician tried to over throw the rule that MUSLIMS ONLY 
could run for political office----he was not only over-ruled---
but the country covered a possible loophole---
which was "CONVERSION TO ISLAM"-----the new rule on the
 books is that in order to run for political office a person 
must be the  child of TWO MUSLIM PARENTS---as well---
of course as being a muslim.     LAWS CAN BE MADE to 
any purpose in  a   DEMOCRACY


----------



## American_Jihad

*Egypts Religion Minister Hopes to Visit Israel When All the Jews are Dead*​
April 4, 2013 
By Daniel Greenfield

...

Egypt?s Religion Minister Hopes to Visit Israel When All the Jews are Dead | FrontPage Magazine

Look at the poor old fuck, he'll never see Israel...


----------



## Jos

American_Jihadi, Frontpage mag and MEMRI all spreading hate?


----------



## Hossfly

Jos said:


> American_Jihadi, Frontpage mag and MEMRI all spreading hate?


Evidently Yousef Mohammed doesn't want to hear the truth.  However, he does love to hear his beloved Ayatollahs screech "Death to Israel."  Say, Yousef, since the truth is that Christians and Baha'is are being held in Iranian jails just because of their religious beliefs, could you hop over there and use your excellent Farsi in convincing the authorities that there should be tolerance in a religion and that the non Muslim people in Iran shouldn't be punished because of their beliefs.


----------



## American_Jihad

Hossfly said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihadi, Frontpage mag and MEMRI all spreading hate?
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently Yousef Mohammed doesn't want to hear the truth.  However, he does love to hear his beloved Ayatollahs screech "Death to Israel."  Say, Yousef, since the truth is that Christians and Baha'is are being held in Iranian jails just because of their religious beliefs, could you hop over there and use your excellent Farsi in convincing the authorities that there should be tolerance in a religion and that the non Muslim people in Iran shouldn't be punished because of their beliefs.
Click to expand...


Hoss, don't waste yo time on it. He/she smokes to much shit...


----------



## proudveteran06

Jos said:


> American_Jihadi, Frontpage mag and MEMRI all spreading hate?



Evypt's " Religion Minister" hopes to visit Israel when all Jews are dead but the above mentioned are " spreading hate?" What would you say if a Jewish leader said he would visit " Palestine" if when all Palestinians are dead? ( Not a bad idea) Another Pro Palestinian Hypocrite


----------



## irosie91

Hossfly said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihadi, Frontpage mag and MEMRI all spreading hate?
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently Yousef Mohammed doesn't want to hear the truth.  However, he does love to hear his beloved Ayatollahs screech "Death to Israel."  Say, Yousef, since the truth is that Christians and Baha'is are being held in Iranian jails just because of their religious beliefs, could you hop over there and use your excellent Farsi in convincing the authorities that there should be tolerance in a religion and that the non Muslim people in Iran shouldn't be punished because of their beliefs.
Click to expand...



be careful    bipolar-----I once got suspended from a message board 
for doing copy/paste of   mosque sermons----the moderator called it 
"HATE SPEECH"


----------



## American_Jihad

*Beware of the Revisionists*

April 11, 2013 
By Ari Lieberman







...

Following the clash, heated Arab rhetoric and false Soviet intelligence reports of Israeli military deployments led to a series of aggressive actions by Egypt and her Arab allies that ultimately culminated in the Six-Day War. On May 15 and with much fanfare and publicity, President Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt deployed two Egyptian divisions in Sinai. On May 16, he ordered U.N. peacekeeping forces, who had hitherto served as a buffer between Israeli and Egyptian forces, out of Sinai. On May 19, Egyptian troop strength swelled to six divisions, with a seventh added soon after. On May 22, Nasser ordered the closure of the Straits of Tiran at the entrance to the Gulf of Eilat, to Israeli shipping. The closure was a gross violation of international maritime law and constituted a casus belli. On May 30th Jordan and Egypt established a joint military command and Jordan placed its armed forces under Egyptian control. Soon after, Egyptian paratroop battalions landed in Jordan and on June 3, they were joined by Iraqi contingents. On June 2, an Egyptian mortar attack set Israeli wheat fields on fire and Egyptian aerial incursions into Israeli territory were occurring with alarming frequency.

Israel was surrounded with countries bent on its annihilation. The Arab street, fed by blood-curdling, anti-Semitic government propaganda, was whipped into frenzy and an orgy of hate and depravity swept through the Arab world. It was clear that the Arabs had foreclosed any possibility of peaceful coexistence with Israel. If there were any doubts about Arab intentions, Radio Cairo dispelled them on May 22 when it declared, The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map.  Israel for its part attempted to quell Arab aggression through diplomatic means but to no avail. The Soviets were actively stoking the flames of war while France, wishing to curry favor with the Arabs, turned its back. The British and Americans offered sympathy and little else.

Thus Israel, with its back to the wall and faced with overt threats of annihilation, acted decisively. On June 5, 1967 the outnumbered and out gunned Israeli Defense Forces launched a preemptive strike and within six days, destroyed the armies of those sworn to her destruction. Two and a half million Israelis faced off against one-hundred and ten million Arabs and won decidedly.

...

We must therefore never forget who the aggressor was in the Six-Day War, that the ramifications of an Israeli loss would have been calamitous on par with the Holocaust and that the Arabs have only themselves to blame for their sorry predicament.

Beware of the Revisionists | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israel at 65*



April 16, 2013 
By Joseph Puder

Few countries have accomplished as much as the Jewish State of Israel has in 65 years of existence.  To avoid any misunderstanding, the 65 years refer only to its modern existence, not to the Two Israelite Jewish Commonwealths that included Kings David and Solomon, as well as Ezra, Nehemiah, and the Hashmonaim dynasty.  In between modern Israel and the two Commonwealths, the Jewish nation lived in exile, suffering persecution and ultimate genocide known as the Nazi Holocaust. Next week, the resurrected Jewish nation will celebrate its 65th birthday.

...

The doomsayers could perhaps justifiably warn of increasing existential threats to Israel.  One mustnt, however, ignore Israels growing strength in relation to its regional enemies. Israels sophisticated military, its vibrant society, political system and flourishing economy provides Israel with an unmistakable edge. As Israel celebrates its 65th birthday, I wish it to go from strength to strength.

Israel at 65 | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Jos

65


----------



## American_Jihad

*Escalation: Iranian Drones Over Israel*

April 30, 2013 By P. David Hornik






On Thursday an Israeli warplane shot a drone into the Mediterranean just west of the Haifa shoreline. The drone came from Lebanon, and Israeli media immediately reported that it was sent by Hizballaheven though the prime minister and the IDF spokesman, in their public statements on the incident, made no such claim.

Amos Harel, military analyst for Haaretz, reports that the reason for that omission is probably that it wasnt Hizballah that sent the plane but, rather, Iranspecifically its Revolutionary Guards contingent in Lebanon.

The UKs Telegraph reports that according to Syrian rebels and Israeli intelligence, Tehran has poured Revolutionary Guard soldiers into Syria and Lebanon to support its Shiite allies. The Revolutionary Guards are also believed to have been behind another drone sent from Lebanon in October. That one entered Israeli airspace and was shot down not far from Israels nuclear plant in the Negev.

The Telegraph quotes a Western diplomat saying: The Israeli military command doesnt treat drones launched from Lebanon lightly, since their goal may be not only taking pictures, but also an assassination of senior officials, military or political. In fact, at the time Thursdays drone was spotted, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu was flying across northern Israel, and his helicopter had to be grounded until the drone was downed.

...

Escalation: Iranian Drones Over Israel | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## irosie91

what did they think the drone was about to do  ?   Surveillance or----shoot something?


----------



## American_Jihad

irosie91 said:


> what did they think the drone was about to do  ?   Surveillance or----shoot something?



The Telegraph quotes a &#8220;Western diplomat&#8221; saying: &#8220;The Israeli military command doesn&#8217;t treat drones launched from Lebanon lightly, *since their goal may be not only taking pictures, but also an assassination of senior officials, military or political.*&#8221; In fact, at the time Thursday&#8217;s drone was spotted, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu was flying across northern Israel, and his helicopter had to be grounded until the drone was downed.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israeli strike on Syria targeted weapons shipment*


By By Lolita C. Baldor And Ryan LucasMay 
04, 2013

WASHINGTON (AP)  An Israeli airstrike against Syria was targeting a shipment of advanced missiles believed to be bound for the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, Israeli officials confirmed Saturday.

It was the second Israeli strike this year against Syria and the latest salvo in its long-running effort to disrupt Hezbollah's quest to build an arsenal capable of defending against Israel's air force and spreading destruction inside the Jewish state.

The strike comes as the U.S. considers how to respond to indications that the Syrian regime may have used chemical weapons in its bloody civil war. President Barack Obama has described the use of such weapons as a "red line," and the administration is weighing its options  including possible military action.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has repeatedly warned in recent weeks that Israel would be prepared to take military action if chemical weapons or other arms that would upset the balance of power with Hezbollah were to reach the Islamic militant group.

...

Israeli officials believe that Hezbollah's arsenal has markedly improved since 2006, and now boasts tens of thousands of rockets and missiles and the ability to hit trike almost anywhere inside Israel.

Israeli strike on Syria targeted weapons shipment - Businessweek


----------



## ForeverYoung436

American_Jihad said:


> *Israel at 65*
> 
> 
> 
> April 16, 2013
> By Joseph Puder
> 
> Few countries have accomplished as much as the Jewish State of Israel has in 65 years of existence.  To avoid any misunderstanding, the 65 years refer only to its modern existence, not to the Two Israelite Jewish Commonwealths that included Kings David and Solomon, as well as Ezra, Nehemiah, and the Hashmonaim dynasty.  In between modern Israel and the two Commonwealths, the Jewish nation lived in exile, suffering persecution and ultimate genocide known as the Nazi Holocaust. Next week, the resurrected Jewish nation will celebrate its 65th birthday.
> 
> ...
> 
> The doomsayers could perhaps justifiably warn of increasing existential threats to Israel.  One mustnt, however, ignore Israels growing strength in relation to its regional enemies. Israels sophisticated military, its vibrant society, political system and flourishing economy provides Israel with an unmistakable edge. As Israel celebrates its 65th birthday, I wish it to go from strength to strength.
> 
> Israel at 65 | FrontPage Magazine



Amen.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> You going to keep repeating the same lies every time I post something? Go for it. You're talking to someone who actually knows the truth of what happened. The arabs didn't start a war to establish a zionist state. I'm pretty sure even you know that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep posting Abbas is giving land but you"re a liar. You repeat Abbas is" negotiating" but you"re a liar. You"re so stupid you a actually "state"  that Abbas is"letting" them have the "67" borders not understanding that these are the "recognized International borders" and Abbas can't ask for more . At least you admit the Arabs will initiate WW3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abbas is irrelevant. He left the government in June of 2007 and his elected term in office expired in January of 2009.
Click to expand...


The fact that Abbas' term of office expired in 2009 means nothing.  When has there ever been a democracy in the Arab world?


----------



## American_Jihad

*NGOs vs. Those Who Serve Israel*

May 13, 2013 By Caroline Glick






In 2010, Cpl. Eleanor Joseph became the first female Arab combat soldier in the IDF. Joseph, a Christian Arab told Maariv that her good luck charm is a drawing of the Star of David with the caption: I have no other land, even when my ground is burning. Her commander drew it for her.

Joseph explained, It is a phrase that strengthens me. Every time I experience hardship, I read it. Because I was born here. The people I love live here: My parents, my friends. This is a Jewish state? Yes, it is. But its also my country. I cant imagine living in any other place. I think every person should serve in the army. You live here? You make your home here? Then go defend your country. What does it matter that Im an Arab?

Josephs story represents an incipient trend of integration among Israels Arab community.

...

NGOs vs. Those Who Serve Israel | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## georgephillip

How many children has she Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names?


----------



## American_Jihad

georgephillip said:


> How many children has she Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names?



Did she shoot any Israeli children?

From the religion of peace...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6029432-post404.html



...


----------



## georgephillip

*Target practice for heroic Jews:*

"Sami, 12, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration. Abdul, 9, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head during a funeral. Ala, 14, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire while on the terrace of his home one hour after injuring an Israeli soldier with a stone. Omar, 11, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration. 

"*Diya, 3 months*, was killed, along with her older brother, by Israeli settler gunfire to her head and back. Bara, 10, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head while near his home. Ayman, 15, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while farming. Khalil, 11, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while playing with a friend. Rami, 13, was killed by IDF helicopter fire to his head while playing in front of his house. Yaser, 11, died of head wounds from an IDF rubber-coated bullet fired at close range during a demonstration?/1/"

Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Yes, OK, --- what accusation is being made here?



georgephillip said:


> *Target practice for heroic Jews:*
> 
> "Sami, 12, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration. Abdul, 9, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head during a funeral. Ala, 14, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire while on the terrace of his home one hour after injuring an Israeli soldier with a stone. Omar, 11, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration.
> 
> "*Diya, 3 months*, was killed, along with her older brother, by Israeli settler gunfire to her head and back. Bara, 10, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head while near his home. Ayman, 15, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while farming. Khalil, 11, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while playing with a friend. Rami, 13, was killed by IDF helicopter fire to his head while playing in front of his house. Yaser, 11, died of head wounds from an IDF rubber-coated bullet fired at close range during a demonstration?/1/"
> 
> Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


*(COMMENT)*

Actually, this is a very poor analytical piece. 

I understand that this is part of the overall "victimization" campaign.  The older _(18 month old)_ "Counterpunch" article made a connection between Gabrielle Giffords _(shooting two years ago)_, Tom Hurndall _(the student volunteer to International Solidarity Movement (ISM) killed on 2004)_ and Palestinian Children _(a collection over the past decade)_.  This is a continuation of the pleading for sympathy we so often see.

It is always sad when children die as a consequence of parental driven actions.  The Palestinian create the conditions for war and then complain when incidents like this occur.  Sad!  But it fits the barbaric martyr-type style of the culture.

*(QUESTION)*

What is the overall ratio of the dead, with head wounds?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip

Here's the closest I could come to an answer to your question concerning the overall ratio of dead children with head wounds from this particular articleWould you happen to know how many Jewish children have died from Arab gunshot wounds to their head during the same time frame?)

"Several years ago, I was researching the cause of death of Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces during the first months of the Second Intifadah, the Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation. As I counted up the numbers, I was chilled to discover that the single most frequent cause of death in those beginning months was 'gunfire to the head.'

"In the past 10 years Israeli forces have killed at least 255 Palestinian minors by fire to the head, and the number may actually be greater, since in many instances the specific bodily location of the lethal trauma is unlisted. In addition, this statistic does not include the many more Palestinian youngsters shot in the head by Israeli soldiers who survived, in one form or another."

I'm a little confused about what actions Akbar's uncle took to inspire the heroic sniper to murder his niece. Frankly it sounds a little barbaric to me, but I suppose it's to be expected when so many Jews are indoctrinated with a firm belief in their racial supremacy to all Arabs from the day of their birth.

"Giffords, of course, wasn&#8217;t the only victim of the Tucson shooting; 14 were injured and six were killed. It is deeply saddening to read about the dead and to imagine the unending grief for their survivors. /19/  It is particularly difficult to view the sweet, smiling picture of nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green, knowing that her bright life is no longer before her.

"It is equally tragic to read of nine-year-old Akaber, killed by Israeli gunfire to her head while riding in her uncle&#8217;s car to get medical stitches removed, and of the 29 other nine-year-olds killed by Israeli forces in the past decade, eight of them by Israeli gunfire to the head."

Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip;  _et al,_

Like I said, poor analysis.



georgephillip said:


> Here's the closest I could come to an answer to your question ...   ...   ...


*(COMMENT)*

This is a correlation that cannot be substantiated on the information available in this article.

This is a sympathy piece, nothing more.  

v/r
R


----------



## High_Gravity

American_Jihad said:


> *NGOs vs. Those Who Serve Israel*
> 
> May 13, 2013 By Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2010, Cpl. Eleanor Joseph became the first female Arab combat soldier in the IDF. Joseph, a Christian Arab told Maariv that her good luck charm is a drawing of the Star of David with the caption: I have no other land, even when my ground is burning. Her commander drew it for her.
> 
> Joseph explained, It is a phrase that strengthens me. Every time I experience hardship, I read it. Because I was born here. The people I love live here: My parents, my friends. This is a Jewish state? Yes, it is. But its also my country. I cant imagine living in any other place. I think every person should serve in the army. You live here? You make your home here? Then go defend your country. What does it matter that Im an Arab?
> 
> Josephs story represents an incipient trend of integration among Israels Arab community.
> 
> ...
> 
> NGOs vs. Those Who Serve Israel | FrontPage Magazine



She is gorgeous!


----------



## Hossfly

High_Gravity said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *NGOs vs. Those Who Serve Israel*
> 
> May 13, 2013 By Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2010, Cpl. Eleanor Joseph became the first female Arab combat soldier in the IDF. Joseph, a Christian Arab told Maariv that her good luck charm is a drawing of the Star of David with the caption: I have no other land, even when my ground is burning. Her commander drew it for her.
> 
> Joseph explained, It is a phrase that strengthens me. Every time I experience hardship, I read it. Because I was born here. The people I love live here: My parents, my friends. This is a Jewish state? Yes, it is. But its also my country. I cant imagine living in any other place. I think every person should serve in the army. You live here? You make your home here? Then go defend your country. What does it matter that Im an Arab?
> 
> Josephs story represents an incipient trend of integration among Israels Arab community.
> 
> ...
> 
> NGOs vs. Those Who Serve Israel | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She is gorgeous!
Click to expand...

*I* have her six, buster. Lay off.


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> Here's the closest I could come to an answer to your question concerning the overall ratio of dead children with head wounds from this particular articleWould you happen to know how many Jewish children have died from Arab gunshot wounds to their head during the same time frame?)
> 
> "Several years ago, I was researching the cause of death of Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces during the first months of the Second Intifadah, the Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation. As I counted up the numbers, I was chilled to discover that the single most frequent cause of death in those beginning months was 'gunfire to the head.'
> 
> "In the past 10 years Israeli forces have killed at least 255 Palestinian minors by fire to the head, and the number may actually be greater, since in many instances the specific bodily location of the lethal trauma is unlisted. In addition, this statistic does not include the many more Palestinian youngsters shot in the head by Israeli soldiers who survived, in one form or another."
> 
> I'm a little confused about what actions Akbar's uncle took to inspire the heroic sniper to murder his niece. Frankly it sounds a little barbaric to me, but I suppose it's to be expected when so many Jews are indoctrinated with a firm belief in their racial supremacy to all Arabs from the day of their birth.
> 
> "Giffords, of course, wasnt the only victim of the Tucson shooting; 14 were injured and six
> were killed. It is deeply saddening to read about the dead and to imagine the unending grief for their survivors. /19/  It is particularly difficult to view the sweet, smiling picture of nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green, knowing that her bright life is no longer before her.
> 
> It is equally tragic to read of nine-year-old Akaber, killed by Israeli gunfire to her head while riding in her uncles car to get medical stitches removed, and of the 29 other nine-year-olds killed by Israeli forces in the past decade, eight of them by Israeli gunfire to the head."
> 
> Shot in the Head » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Of fatal BULLET injuries ----which are incidental to war-----or even
> street fighting-------what percentage are bullet injuries to the head??
> 
> the article you cited is pure nonsense.     BULLET TO THE HEAD
> is one of my specialties-------as is  the determination of  "DEATH"
> 
> I got news for whoever wrote that idiotic article-----most of the fatalities
> caused by  GUNFIRE IN THE STREETS   of bystanders------are
> bullets   caught in the HEAD
> Any idiot who  concludes that since more kids die of bullets
> to the HEAD ----that means someone was AIMING FOR HEAD----
> is just that -----an idiot      Chances are ----if a palestinian caught
> a stray bullet in his arm------he SIMPLY DID NOT DIE.
> 
> getting back to children-----there is another---issue---
> the HEAD of a child---proportionate to his body---is
> a comparitively LARGER target than  is the head of an
> adult proportionate to body-----therefore --_STATISTICALLY---
> a greater number of stray bullets will hit a childs head as opposed
> to the rest of his body than the head of adult as opposed to the
> rest of his body
> 
> all your idiot article says is that  ----when kids die from stray bullets---
> lots of those stray bullets hit their HEADS --------I knew that.
> I did see ONLY ONE  in which the bullet hit the chest
> 
> The fact that the heads of children are particularly big targets---
> does work for your side when they use nail bombs---most
> of the deaths from nail bomb injuries in children----are
> NAILS IN THE HEAD
> 
> I never saw a kid dead from a stray bullet to the TOE


----------



## georgephillip

How many dead kids have you seen, hasbara rosie?
Link?


----------



## irosie91

georgephillip said:


> How many dead kids have you seen, hasbara rosie?
> Link?



Many     you expect their medical records to be ON-LINE?----even if I had 
a list of names----I could not publish then according to federal law 
in the USA       Are your medical records on line---sociopath-georgie? 
if you are interested in   deaths by  GUNSHOT WOUND---check it out with 
your local cororner


----------



## American_Jihad

georgephillip said:


> How many dead kids have you seen, hasbara rosie?
> Link?



You should worry about yo-own hood beatch...

hispanic gangs in los angeles county - Google Search


----------



## georgephillip

American_Jihad said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many dead kids have you seen, hasbara rosie?
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about yo-own hood beatch...
> 
> hispanic gangs in los angeles county - Google Search
Click to expand...

"The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."

The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.

MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

georgephillip said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many dead kids have you seen, hasbara rosie?
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about yo-own hood beatch...
> 
> hispanic gangs in los angeles county - Google Search
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Off Topic story for Georgie:  

As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?  

  I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute ) 

So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too? 

 He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.  

4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life. 

He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.

I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.  

 Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!  

So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son. 



  That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.  

-Jeri


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about yo-own hood beatch...
> 
> hispanic gangs in los angeles county - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> -Jeri
Click to expand...


Beautiful story.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Thanks, Foreveryoung.  G-d knows how to write the best stories.  He is so good.  I love Him. 

  Have an awesome day! - Jeri


----------



## High_Gravity

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about yo-own hood beatch...
> 
> hispanic gangs in los angeles county - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> -Jeri
Click to expand...


Thats amazing.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

High_Gravity said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats amazing.
Click to expand...


G-d is amazing, Gravity.   You never know what He is up to but if you'll follow His Lead He'll reveal it to you later on.    Have a great day you guys.  

- Jeri


----------



## georgephillip

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about yo-own hood beatch...
> 
> hispanic gangs in los angeles county - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
Click to expand...

Gangsters have ruled this world since the time the first private fortunes came into existence.
Examples of authentic spirituality like yours and Texter's were around long before the Christian god was invented, and the saving grace you provided one troubled individual counts for very little when measured against the collective evil that gangsters exert when they seize control of any church or state.

Archbishop Oscar Romero is one of the best examples.
He was murdered while delivering Mass by assassins trained by the US Army working on behalf of the richest gangsters in his country: El Salvador.

"Romero was shot on 24 March 1980 while celebrating Mass at a small chapel located in a hospital called 'La Divina Providencia', one day after a sermon in which he had called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God's higher order and to stop carrying out the government's repression and violations of basic human rights."

The rich don't exist without violations of basic human rights, and they cloak their malice far more often with religion than any other social institution except the state, of course. Those whose faith is powerful enough to work the magic you did with Texter are often the global gangsters chief apologists when it comes to crimes against humanity ranging from El Salvador to Iraq.

Óscar Romero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gangsters have ruled this world since the time the first private fortunes came into existence.
> Examples of authentic spirituality like yours and Texter's were around long before the Christian god was invented, and the saving grace you provided one troubled individual counts for very little when measured against the collective evil that gangsters exert when they seize control of any church or state.
> 
> Archbishop Oscar Romero is one of the best examples.
> He was murdered while delivering Mass by assassins trained by the US Army working on behalf of the richest gangsters in his country: El Salvador.
> 
> "Romero was shot on 24 March 1980 while celebrating Mass at a small chapel located in a hospital called 'La Divina Providencia', one day after a sermon in which he had called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God's higher order and to stop carrying out the government's repression and violations of basic human rights."
> 
> The rich don't exist without violations of basic human rights, and they cloak their malice far more often with religion than any other social institution except the state, of course. Those whose faith is powerful enough to work the magic you did with Texter are often the global gangsters chief apologists when it comes to crimes against humanity ranging from El Salvador to Iraq.
> 
> Óscar Romero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Jeremiah told an interesting personal story.  Why did you feel you had to drag in gangsters from your beloved Wikipedia of course?  I would imagine that the viewers are sharp enough to see that you are once again bringing money up -- "first private fortunes"  and "The rich."  Maybe we should take a collection up to send you on a little vacation so you can get away from your computer and forget for a while about people who have some money while apparently you have very little.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

georgephillip said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gangsters have ruled this world since the time the first private fortunes came into existence.
> Examples of authentic spirituality like yours and Texter's were around long before the Christian god was invented, and the saving grace you provided one troubled individual counts for very little when measured against the collective evil that gangsters exert when they seize control of any church or state.
> 
> Archbishop Oscar Romero is one of the best examples.
> He was murdered while delivering Mass by assassins trained by the US Army working on behalf of the richest gangsters in his country: El Salvador.
> 
> "Romero was shot on 24 March 1980 while celebrating Mass at a small chapel located in a hospital called 'La Divina Providencia', one day after a sermon in which he had called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God's higher order and to stop carrying out the government's repression and violations of basic human rights."
> 
> The rich don't exist without violations of basic human rights, and they cloak their malice far more often with religion than any other social institution except the state, of course. Those whose faith is powerful enough to work the magic you did with Texter are often the global gangsters chief apologists when it comes to crimes against humanity ranging from El Salvador to Iraq.
> 
> Óscar Romero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


George, let me share a little story someone told me about 20 years ago.  There was a man and his son walking on the beach in Mexico at the end of day.   The boy saw up ahead that there were thousands of starfish washed up on the beach.  He said, Look dad!  Look at all those star fish!  His father replied, Yes, those star fish are going to die, Son.  They are washing up on the beach now.  

The boy ran ahead and began tossing the beached starfish one by one back into the deeper end of the water so the tide would take them back out.  The father said, Son, it won't matter.  There are far too many of them.  

The boy picked up a star fish in his hand and said, It matters to this one, dad!


----------



## t_polkow

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



Keep sending money you stupid goyim we just keep on laughing and mocking your yeshu!


----------



## SirDirkFan

Henry is absurd.

Henry gave away all of Vietnam.

He will not be allowed to do that with Israel.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

t_polkow said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the world&#8217;s major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the world&#8217;s leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstances&#8212;while reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep sending money you stupid goyim we just keep on laughing and mocking your yeshu!
Click to expand...


It doesn't make any difference, Polkow.  We still love you guys  ---  We still love Israel and we will continue to defend both of you whether you like it or not.  Get used to it.   



-Jeri


----------



## SirDirkFan

How trite.

It is miraculous that despite all of the anti-Christian sentiment that Christians are the nost ardent supporters of Israel.

It is important to understand  I said 'Israel'.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

SirDirkFan, not all Israelis feel the way Polkow feels about the evangelical support they get over there.  Those who do have their personal reasons and as a christian I respect that. 

 I've never been to Israel but I support her.  I make no claim to that land - I'm a gentile - I believe it belongs to the Jews.  I am not looking towards some apocylyptic day.  Far from it.  I say long may she live.  I wish her and the Jews the very best and that is sincere.  ( including Polkow! ) 

Why are some christians so serious about their support of Israel?  Because they pray for her and anytime you pray for a person or a nation you get a burden for them.  Our bible commands us to pray for Israel and knowing how G-d feels about Israel and His people is a huge motivator.  Christians were adopted into G-ds family through Jesus.    Who doesn't have family members who rub each other the wrong way or have a few personality conflicts here or there?  It is no big deal.  At the end of the day we are all still family.    - Jeri


----------



## georgephillip

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> Gangsters have ruled this world since the time the first private fortunes came into existence.
> Examples of authentic spirituality like yours and Texter's were around long before the Christian god was invented, and the saving grace you provided one troubled individual counts for very little when measured against the collective evil that gangsters exert when they seize control of any church or state.
> 
> Archbishop Oscar Romero is one of the best examples.
> He was murdered while delivering Mass by assassins trained by the US Army working on behalf of the richest gangsters in his country: El Salvador.
> 
> "Romero was shot on 24 March 1980 while celebrating Mass at a small chapel located in a hospital called 'La Divina Providencia', one day after a sermon in which he had called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God's higher order and to stop carrying out the government's repression and violations of basic human rights."
> 
> The rich don't exist without violations of basic human rights, and they cloak their malice far more often with religion than any other social institution except the state, of course. Those whose faith is powerful enough to work the magic you did with Texter are often the global gangsters chief apologists when it comes to crimes against humanity ranging from El Salvador to Iraq.
> 
> Óscar Romero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> George, let me share a little story someone told me about 20 years ago.  There was a man and his son walking on the beach in Mexico at the end of day.   The boy saw up ahead that there were thousands of starfish washed up on the beach.  He said, Look dad!  Look at all those star fish!  His father replied, Yes, those star fish are going to die, Son.  They are washing up on the beach now.
> 
> The boy ran ahead and began tossing the beached starfish one by one back into the deeper end of the water so the tide would take them back out.  The father said, Son, it won't matter.  There are far too many of them.
> 
> The boy picked up a star fish in his hand and said, It matters to this one, dad!
Click to expand...

Has it ever occurred to you the starfish didn't care, Jeri?

"Starfish has repeatedly been chosen as a name in military history... 

"Starfish Prime was a high-altitude nuclear test conducted by the United States of America on 9 July 1962; the device exploded 250 miles (400 km) above the Pacific Ocean with a yield equivalent to 1.4 megatons of TNT."

Can you see this world without your mythological biases?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

George, to me?  The world is full of lost star fishes ( people )  that have been written off as goners...  while there is life there is hope and besides.... in my world nothing is impossible.  

God loves you, George.  You are very precious in His sight.  

-Jeri


----------



## georgephillip

Jeremiah said:


> George, to me?  The world is full of lost star fishes ( people )  that have been written off as goners...  while there is life there is hope and besides.... in my world nothing is impossible.
> 
> God loves you, George.  You are very precious in His sight.
> 
> -Jeri


Thank you, Jeri; I suspect if there were more like you war would not have been invented.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

George, I have behaved badly on this board myself but I did apologise for it as there isn't any excuse.
Truth is God loves us all.  If I can't do the same there is something wrong with me. - Jeri


----------



## Connery

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should worry about yo-own hood beatch...
> 
> hispanic gangs in los angeles county - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> "The Mara Salvatrucha gang originated in Los Angeles], set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Union neighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s."
> 
> The Gipper's legacy lives on in my hood, Loser.
> 
> MS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Off Topic story for Georgie:
> 
> As you know I am a Christian.  Some years ago I bought a new cellphone.  Unbeknownst to me the number belonged formerly to a  Gang Leader who dealt drugs.   I get a text message from one of his members about hitting him up for some slang term for drugs ( won't say here ) and I text him back, Don't have drugs, I've got Jesus and there ain't no high like the most high.  Do you know him? He said yes and who are you?
> 
> I said I am not a cop.  I don't care what you do.  Your boss has a new phone and I must have received his old number ( not exact text conversation but you'll get the jist here in a minute )
> 
> So I want to keep this young man texting because I want to lead him to Christ.  But I know it isn't going to happen right then so instead I text him back and say, God is not a cop either.  He only wants the best for your life.  I'm deleting your number now out of my phone but FIRST will you do something for me too?
> 
> He said what is it?  I said, Can I pray for you each day?  He texted me back, about what?  I said, I will pray two things only.  First that God will send angels to protect you day and night and second that God will fulfill the plan he has for your life which is ALL GOOD.  He said, Okay. I'll let you do that.  I said fine.  I'm erasing you now.  And I did.
> 
> 4 days later I get a text message.    Have you been praying for me? It's the gang banger.  He's back.  I texted back Yes.  He said what did you pray?   I said every day throughout the day I say, Lord, send your angels to encamp about Texter and protect him.  Put a hedge of protection around him that nothing can touch him.  I plead the blood of Jesus over Him - Satan cannot have his life.  Then I pray Gods will be done in your life.
> 
> He texted back.  I have to tell you something.  My car got totalled late last night. ( New Years Eve )   It rolled 3 times and I didn't have a scratch on me.  They had to cut me out of the car.  The cop said good thing you had your seatbelt on.  You'd be dead right now.  It's a miracle you are alive anyhow.  The young man told me, I didn't have my seatbelt on.  I know I didn't have it on and something kept me in my seat.  I'm trippin' here. Your prayers saved my life.
> 
> I said, good.    Can I keep praying for you?  He said, yes.  Please do.   Then he said, Thank you for praying for me!  Oh! I wanted to come through that cell phone and hug him the precious little thing!  I replied, I'll be praying for you, Texter.   Goodbye.
> 
> Then we parted ways and kept each others numbers.   For years whenever the Lord lays this guy on my heart I text him.  He will text me back my mother was just asking about you today!  I can't believe it!  I haven't heard from you in 8 months! You text same day she asked about you.  I said God didn't put you on my heart  to contact you until now.  Is God cool or what?????   THAT GOT HIM THINKING!  OH YEAH!
> 
> So last time I actually called him because after almost 3 years it was time.  We had never spoken to each other before.  I said to him,   Are you alright? He replies, I am in school and going to church.  I'm doing great.  My mother thanks God for you.  That was all I needed to hear. Mission accomplished.  I can let him go now but I will always keep that young man in my prayers.  I love him like he was my own son.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my story about the gangster and the cell phone.
> 
> -Jeri
Click to expand...


Very "stand up" and nice to read this!!!


----------



## Kondor3

In 20 years the few remaining scattered and ghostly fragments of so-called Palestine will have been annexed and absorbed into the State of Israel and the present occupants (Arab-Palestinians) will be scattered to the winds - with many of them emmigrating to Jordan, Lebannon, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. The historical map of 'Shrinking Palestine' tells that story and feeds that projection well enough. Afterwards, Israel will firm-up its borders, look to its defenses, and begin to enjoy life a bit more.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



I do not believe the statement in your title thread to be true. Nations rise and nations fall.


----------



## skye

Of course you would sherri....


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

Of course I would what, skye, your post makes no sense.


----------



## Hossfly

t_polkow said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep sending money you stupid goyim we just keep on laughing and mocking your yeshu!
Click to expand...

Either Polkow is an Muslim posing as a Jew or else he is one of those crazy Leftist Russians.  Poor Polkow, he wants the readers to believe that everyone in Israel and American is mocking Jesus because he has spoken to every Jew and has gotten their opinion of Jesus.  Most Jews, Polkow, don't even think about Jesus so who do  you think you are kidding?  While, Polkow is busy with his videos, doesn't anyone think he would ever show videos of the cartoons in which the Muslims kids are taught to hate and murder Jews?  By the way, Polkow, do you really think that the International Christian Embassy based in Jerusalem would keep on helping the Jews in Israel if they were mocking Jesus as you want us all to believe?  For all we know, you might be posting from some Middle East country and are not even in israel.  I guess Polkow has a certain routine.  When he appears here, it is always the same old thing.  Can we get him a part on Saturday Night Live as a Mad Russian?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

Hossfly said:


> t_polkow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the world&#8217;s major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the world&#8217;s leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstances&#8212;while reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep sending money you stupid goyim we just keep on laughing and mocking your yeshu!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Either Polkow is an Muslim posing as a Jew or else he is one of those crazy Leftist Russians.  Poor Polkow, he wants the readers to believe that everyone in Israel and American is mocking Jesus because he has spoken to every Jew and has gotten their opinion of Jesus.  Most Jews, Polkow, don't even think about Jesus so who do  you think you are kidding?  While, Polkow is busy with his videos, doesn't anyone think he would ever show videos of the cartoons in which the Muslims kids are taught to hate and murder Jews?  By the way, Polkow, do you really think that the International Christian Embassy based in Jerusalem would keep on helping the Jews in Israel if they were mocking Jesus as you want us all to believe?  For all we know, you might be posting from some Middle East country and are not even in israel.  I guess Polkow has a certain routine.  When he appears here, it is always the same old thing.  Can we get him a part on Saturday Night Live as a Mad Russian?
Click to expand...


I thought the videos were entertaining and are simply more evidence that nations, like Israel, are controlled by Satan. That such nations rise and that they shall fall is very predictable and very expected. Now, I am going to go watch the videos again and be entertained once again.


----------



## Hossfly

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> t_polkow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep sending money you stupid goyim we just keep on laughing and mocking your yeshu!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jtRj5iYurM
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtVpHUjwQSA
> 
> 
> 
> Either Polkow is an Muslim posing as a Jew or else he is one of those crazy Leftist Russians.  Poor Polkow, he wants the readers to believe that everyone in Israel and American is mocking Jesus because he has spoken to every Jew and has gotten their opinion of Jesus.  Most Jews, Polkow, don't even think about Jesus so who do  you think you are kidding?  While, Polkow is busy with his videos, doesn't anyone think he would ever show videos of the cartoons in which the Muslims kids are taught to hate and murder Jews?  By the way, Polkow, do you really think that the International Christian Embassy based in Jerusalem would keep on helping the Jews in Israel if they were mocking Jesus as you want us all to believe?  For all we know, you might be posting from some Middle East country and are not even in israel.  I guess Polkow has a certain routine.  When he appears here, it is always the same old thing.  Can we get him a part on Saturday Night Live as a Mad Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought the videos were entertaining and are simply more evidence that nations, like Israel, are controlled by Satan. That such nations rise and that they shall fall is very predictable and very expected. Now, I am going to go watch the videos again and be entertained once again.
Click to expand...

Of course  a Jew hater like you would find the video entertaining.  You probably find those cartoons teaching the Arab kids to hate and kill the Jews also entertaining.  And you no doubt gush every time you hear of a suicide or homicide bombings by your friends.  Since you are always bringing up the Devil, I think he is controlling you.  Didn't those set of horns he had made especially for you fit?  If not, send them back to him for alterations.  By the way, doesn't your better half ever take you out to see real movies and buy your popcorn instead of you just stuck with watching video clips on the Internet?


----------



## eagle1462010

Just browsing this thread.  

I believe Israel is our TRUE ALLY IN THE REGION, and they are surrounded by a Sea of people who don't even believe they have the right to exist.

They have been attacked so many times since the country formed that it's difficult to count, yet they continue on in the face of regular attacks by those who wish them destroyed.

I watched the Greatest Tank Battles in History on Netflix a while back.  To those interested, you should watch how a handfull of Israeli Tanks held off a massive suprise attack by the Syrians and Egypt.


----------



## Hossfly

eagle1462010 said:


> Just browsing this thread.
> 
> I believe Israel is our TRUE ALLY IN THE REGION, and they are surrounded by a Sea of people who don't even believe they have the right to exist.
> 
> They have been attacked so many times since the country formed that it's difficult to count, yet they continue on in the face of regular attacks by those who wish them destroyed.
> 
> I watched the Greatest Tank Battles in History on Netflix a while back.  To those interested, you should watch how a handfull of Israeli Tanks held off a massive suprise attack by the Syrians and Egypt.


The Military Channel shows those tank battles fairly often. Against Syria, the IDF kicked ass and took names.


----------



## georgephillip

eagle1462010 said:


> Just browsing this thread.
> 
> I believe Israel is our TRUE ALLY IN THE REGION, and they are surrounded by a Sea of people who don't even believe they have the right to exist.
> 
> They have been attacked so many times since the country formed that it's difficult to count, yet they continue on in the face of regular attacks by those who wish them destroyed.
> 
> I watched the Greatest Tank Battles in History on Netflix a while back.  To those interested, you should watch how a handfull of Israeli Tanks held off a massive suprise attack by the Syrians and Egypt.


You might want to consider why Israel was created as a Jewish homeland in its latest incarnation:

*"Following the absorption* of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, the British set about shoring up their rule by the tried and true strategy of pitting ethnic group against ethnic group, tribe against tribe, and *religion against religion*. 

"When British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour issued his famous 1917 Declaration guaranteeing a 'homeland' for the Jewish people in Palestine, he was less concerned with righting a two thousand year old wrong than *creating divisions that would serve growing British interests* in the Middle East.

"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a 'Jewish homeland' in Palestine meant for the British Empire: 'It will form for England,' he said, 'a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.'&#8221;

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF

It isn't coincidental that the superpower of its day created "a little, loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism" at the same time the Royal Navy was converting from coal to oil to power its imperial fleets.


----------



## Kondor3

Sound a little Conspiracy Theory -ish to me... ;-) ...and, in the long run, it doesn't matter a damn. Israel is here to stay. They will complete the process of pushing their borders outward until they have all of the West Bank and Gaza. They don't need more than that, but it's a good bet that they won't settle for less, behind the scenes, and they're 65 years into that multi-generational project, and quite close now to accomplishing their goal.


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> Sound a little Conspiracy Theory -ish to me... ;-) ...and, in the long run, it doesn't matter a damn. Israel is here to stay. They will complete the process of pushing their borders outward until they have all of the West Bank and Gaza. They don't need more than that, but it's a good bet that they won't settle for less, behind the scenes, and they're 65 years into that multi-generational project, and quite close now to accomplishing their goal.


How close are they to annexing Area C?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Hossfly said:


> t_polkow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the world&#8217;s major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the world&#8217;s leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstances&#8212;while reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep sending money you stupid goyim we just keep on laughing and mocking your yeshu!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Either Polkow is an Muslim posing as a Jew or else he is one of those crazy Leftist Russians.  Poor Polkow, he wants the readers to believe that everyone in Israel and American is mocking Jesus because he has spoken to every Jew and has gotten their opinion of Jesus.  Most Jews, Polkow, don't even think about Jesus so who do  you think you are kidding?  While, Polkow is busy with his videos, doesn't anyone think he would ever show videos of the cartoons in which the Muslims kids are taught to hate and murder Jews?  By the way, Polkow, do you really think that the International Christian Embassy based in Jerusalem would keep on helping the Jews in Israel if they were mocking Jesus as you want us all to believe?  For all we know, you might be posting from some Middle East country and are not even in israel.  I guess Polkow has a certain routine.  When he appears here, it is always the same old thing.  Can we get him a part on Saturday Night Live as a Mad Russian?
Click to expand...


Polkow reminds me of a certain writer on the ME boards from long ago ( one at least ) named Maxx.  The difference of course is he does have a certain Russian leaning while Maxx did not.  I miss Maxx alot.  He really kept people on their toes.  Polkow?  Um...  Not so much. 

 Of course, you make an outstanding point here, Hossfly.   The ICEJ has never once mentioned any such animosity from the Jews in Israel.  It is a very strong relationship and appears to be flourishing.  I think we need to continue to respect that Judaism is the faith of Israel, respect that fact and their right to make their own decisions about their own land ( staying out of their decision making process )  but let them know they have our full support and that we care about them.  Not because of some prophecy in the bible but because they are our closest ally and that is how close friends should treat each other.    IMO. 

 - Jeri


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> t_polkow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep sending money you stupid goyim we just keep on laughing and mocking your yeshu!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jtRj5iYurM
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtVpHUjwQSA
> 
> 
> 
> Either Polkow is an Muslim posing as a Jew or else he is one of those crazy Leftist Russians.  Poor Polkow, he wants the readers to believe that everyone in Israel and American is mocking Jesus because he has spoken to every Jew and has gotten their opinion of Jesus.  Most Jews, Polkow, don't even think about Jesus so who do  you think you are kidding?  While, Polkow is busy with his videos, doesn't anyone think he would ever show videos of the cartoons in which the Muslims kids are taught to hate and murder Jews?  By the way, Polkow, do you really think that the International Christian Embassy based in Jerusalem would keep on helping the Jews in Israel if they were mocking Jesus as you want us all to believe?  For all we know, you might be posting from some Middle East country and are not even in israel.  I guess Polkow has a certain routine.  When he appears here, it is always the same old thing.  Can we get him a part on Saturday Night Live as a Mad Russian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought the videos were entertaining and are simply more evidence that nations, like Israel, are controlled by Satan. That such nations rise and that they shall fall is very predictable and very expected. Now, I am going to go watch the videos again and be entertained once again.
Click to expand...


Sherri?  I find it incredible to believe you have read the same book I have read.  ( The Bible)   I have no clue where you come up with such ideas.  Israel is not controlled by Satan.


----------



## American_Jihad

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not believe the statement in your title thread to be true. Nations rise and nations fall.
Click to expand...


There is a link at the bottom where you can get in touch with the author of the article...


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israel Cultivates Unlikely Ally in West African Nation of Senegal*

Muslim Francophone Country Reaps Benefits of Aid and Trade

By JTA
Published May 18, 2013.

...

It registers very strongly with locals that Israelis give them sheep for a Muslim holiday while most Arab embassies do nothing, said Eli Ben-Tura, the Israeli ambassador.

The animals are just part of the millions that Israel has spent over the years in Senegal, a French-speaking Western African nation of 12 million where the average monthly salary is $158. In return, Senegal has supported Israels erection of a barrier to protect itself from Palestinian terrorism and, last December, signed over oil prospecting rights in its territorial waters to an Israeli-owned mining company.

Over the past decade, Israels trade has more than tripled with Senegal, a country about the size of South Dakota. Among its neighbors is Mali, where French troops have been fighting Islamic militants for months.

Like Israel, Senegal is an island of stability in an unstable region, Ben-Tura told JTA in an interview last week at the Israeli Embassy overlooking Independence Plaza in Dakar, Senegals capital city.

The importance Israel places on its partnership with Senegal was evident in Ben-Turas speech on April 30 at Israels 65th Independence Day celebration at the Grand Theatre National, a magnificent structure built with Chinese funding in 2011 near Dakars main port.

Speaking to an audience of 1,000, Ben-Tura listed Israels latest gifts to the country: training for hundreds of farmers; preparations to train thousands more by Israeli experts stationed in the country; and the establishment of a permanent depot for agricultural equipment and disease control.

...

Read more: Israel Cultivates Unlikely Ally in West African Nation of Senegal ? Forward.com


----------



## American_Jihad

*Apartheid Amusement Park?*

June 5, 2013 By Steven Plaut






The Left and its satellites in the media found a horrid case of Israeli apartheid in recent days.  It is in Superland.

Superland is Israels closest thing to Knotts Berry Farm or similar amusement parks with digestion-challenging roller coasters to be found on other continents.   You can read about it here.

The park suddenly found itself on the hit list of the Caring Left when it turned out that occasionally it was holding closed group days in the park, where the park would not be open to the general public.  And some of these closed group days would be for Arabs only, for Jews only, or for other specific groups, such as Ultra-Orthodox chareidim.

The caring Left blew its gasket.  Haaretz, the Palestinian newspaper printed in Hebrew, ran several editorials and Op-Eds screaming about this display of apartheid in Israel.  RACISTLAND! was the title of an article printed in the other leftist Israeli daily, Yediot Ahronot. The foreign anti-Semites quickly picked up on all the leftist Israeli chatter about Superland apartheid to prove once again how racist Israel is.

...

?Apartheid? Amusement Park? | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Kondor3

Despite the fact that the Park is open to the general public much of the time and allows for mixed Jewish-Arab customer mixing on the premises...

Despite the fact that the Park caters to a mixed Jewish-Arab audience that is as likely to pull knives on each other as to buy popcorn...

Despite the fact that the Park has had numerous incidents of disturbance or fighting between Jews and Arabs over time?

We have Loony Lefties objecting to the Park setting aside a few days here-and-there as _Jews-Only Day_ or _Arabs-Only Day_, just to give it a rest, and let each group relax a bit more amongst their own, without fear of brawling?

Let 'em howl and bay at the moon all night long... nobody else (_folks who understand the even-handedness and goodwill at-work here_) is paying attention in this context.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Non issue. We even have Mormon day at our local park.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Non issue. We even have Mormon day at our local park.



Not even close to the same issue you quoted. Wow Tinnie.


----------



## SAYIT

P F Tinmore said:


> Non issue. We even have Mormon day at our local park.



I believe you've missed the OP's point which is not that Israel, as the Caring Left lamely attempts to prove, engages in apartheid, but rather that the Caring Left would use this "non-issue" to pitch their undying hate for Israel and Jews.


----------



## Coyote

Kondor3 said:


> Despite the fact that the Park is open to the general public much of the time and allows for mixed Jewish-Arab customer mixing on the premises...
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park caters to a mixed Jewish-Arab audience that is as likely to pull knives on each other as to buy popcorn...
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park has had numerous incidents of disturbance or fighting between Jews and Arabs over time?
> 
> We have Loony Lefties objecting to the Park setting aside a few days here-and-there as _Jews-Only Day_ or _Arabs-Only Day_, just to give it a rest, and let each group relax a bit more amongst their own, without fear of brawling?
> 
> Let 'em howl and bay at the moon all night long... nobody else (_folks who understand the even-handedness and goodwill at-work here_) is paying attention in this context.



We had loonie Righties objecting to it when local swimming pools set aside women-only hours to cater to their Muslim population.  They screamed discrimmination and Sharia.

Now, Israel is doing a similar thing, and those Righties think it's just fine.

Frankly I think it's just fine in both cases.  Silly to get knickers in a knot over it.


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park is open to the general public much of the time and allows for mixed Jewish-Arab customer mixing on the premises...
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park caters to a mixed Jewish-Arab audience that is as likely to pull knives on each other as to buy popcorn...
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park has had numerous incidents of disturbance or fighting between Jews and Arabs over time?
> 
> We have Loony Lefties objecting to the Park setting aside a few days here-and-there as _Jews-Only Day_ or _Arabs-Only Day_, just to give it a rest, and let each group relax a bit more amongst their own, without fear of brawling?
> 
> Let 'em howl and bay at the moon all night long... nobody else (_folks who understand the even-handedness and goodwill at-work here_) is paying attention in this context.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had loonie Righties objecting to it when local swimming pools set aside women-only hours to cater to their Muslim population.  They screamed discrimmination and Sharia.
> 
> Now, Israel is doing a similar thing, and those Righties think it's just fine.
> 
> Frankly I think it's just fine in both cases.  Silly to get knickers in a knot over it.
Click to expand...


I have a question, if I am Black and go to Israel and they have days for Jews and days for Arabs, when can the brothers go to the park?


----------



## toastman

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park is open to the general public much of the time and allows for mixed Jewish-Arab customer mixing on the premises...
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park caters to a mixed Jewish-Arab audience that is as likely to pull knives on each other as to buy popcorn...
> 
> Despite the fact that the Park has had numerous incidents of disturbance or fighting between Jews and Arabs over time?
> 
> We have Loony Lefties objecting to the Park setting aside a few days here-and-there as _Jews-Only Day_ or _Arabs-Only Day_, just to give it a rest, and let each group relax a bit more amongst their own, without fear of brawling?
> 
> Let 'em howl and bay at the moon all night long... nobody else (_folks who understand the even-handedness and goodwill at-work here_) is paying attention in this context.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had loonie Righties objecting to it when local swimming pools set aside women-only hours to cater to their Muslim population.  They screamed discrimmination and Sharia.
> 
> Now, Israel is doing a similar thing, and those Righties think it's just fine.
> 
> Frankly I think it's just fine in both cases.  Silly to get knickers in a knot over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a question, if I am Black and go to Israel and they have days for Jews and days for Arabs, when can the brothers go to the park?
Click to expand...


Well, there are plenty of Ethiopian Jews in Israel ! Just because you're black , doesn't mean you can't be Jewish


----------



## Kondor3

Coyote said:


> "...We had loonie Righties objecting to it when local swimming pools set aside women-only hours to cater to their Muslim population.  They screamed discrimmination and Sharia..."


Probably has a lot do do with what country the swimming pool was in...


----------



## Kondor3

High_Gravity said:


> "..._I have a question, if I am Black and go to Israel and they have days for Jews and days for Arabs, when can the brothers go to the park?_"


DUnno... but there are brothers of the blood, brothers of the skin, and brothers of the uniform.

If they ever slam the door in your face on an All-Public Day, there are a lot of the third kind of brothers hereabouts and elsewhere who will be happy to help you rock their world - with real rocks...


----------



## High_Gravity

Kondor3 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._I have a question, if I am Black and go to Israel and they have days for Jews and days for Arabs, when can the brothers go to the park?_"
> 
> 
> 
> DUnno... but there are brothers of the blood, brothers of the skin, and brothers of the uniform.
> 
> If they ever slam the door in your face on an All-Public Day, there are a lot of the third kind of brothers hereabouts and elsewhere who will be happy to help you rock their world - with real rocks...
Click to expand...


There are black people in Israel, refugees from Darfur, Ethiopia, even Somalia and the Congo, I'm curious where they would come into play when they have separate days for Jews and Arabs.


----------



## High_Gravity

toastman said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> We had loonie Righties objecting to it when local swimming pools set aside women-only hours to cater to their Muslim population.  They screamed discrimmination and Sharia.
> 
> Now, Israel is doing a similar thing, and those Righties think it's just fine.
> 
> Frankly I think it's just fine in both cases.  Silly to get knickers in a knot over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question, if I am Black and go to Israel and they have days for Jews and days for Arabs, when can the brothers go to the park?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there are plenty of Ethiopian Jews in Israel ! Just because you're black , doesn't mean you can't be Jewish
Click to expand...


Oh I understand that, but what if I'm not Jewish?


----------



## toastman

High_Gravity said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question, if I am Black and go to Israel and they have days for Jews and days for Arabs, when can the brothers go to the park?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there are plenty of Ethiopian Jews in Israel ! Just because you're black , doesn't mean you can't be Jewish
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I understand that, but what if I'm not Jewish?
Click to expand...

 
Well then, you will be hanged. Sorry  

LOL. In all seriousness, you don't have to be Jewish dude.


----------



## High_Gravity

toastman said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there are plenty of Ethiopian Jews in Israel ! Just because you're black , doesn't mean you can't be Jewish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I understand that, but what if I'm not Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then, you will be hanged. Sorry
> 
> LOL. In all seriousness, you don't have to be Jewish dude.
Click to expand...


So they just send them in on the Jewish days? that could work.


----------



## José

*Get used to it: Israel is here to stay. And so am I!!*


----------



## toastman

Jose, does it hurt your feelings knowing that Israel is a thriving and growing country with an excellent economy ??? Be honest now !


----------



## Kondor3

José;7353907 said:
			
		

> "..."


Unless I"m mistaken, I don't believe that the Dodo was a regional military superpower, nor did the Dodo possess a nuclear weapons arsenal, nor was it aware of the dangers posed to it, nor did it fight back - well.


----------



## eots

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the world&#8217;s major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become *one of the world&#8217;s leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstances&#8212;while reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.*
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



Israel will eat itself..Racsist


----------



## HistoryBefore67

Israel will still be here when all the anti-Semites here are gone.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José;7353907 said:
			
		

> *Get used to it: Israel is here to stay. And so am I!!*



Only in your wet dreams is Israel going the way of the Dodo bird!!


----------



## American_Jihad

eots said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become *one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.*
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will eat itself..Racsist
Click to expand...


WoW, so you're also a racist, I kinda knew that...


----------



## American_Jihad

*The EUs Broken Mideast Compass*

July 18, 2013 By Noah Beck

The European Union recently sent out a directive barring its 28 members from cooperating with Israeli entities in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The boycott includes all funding, cooperation, and the granting of scholarships, research grants and prizes to Israeli entities in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

...

If the EU wants to wield its economic clout to impose peace on disputing parties, why not boycott China for its brutal occupation of Tibet? Clearly that occupation doesnt matter because the EU is Chinas largest trading partner. And why isnt the EU boycotting Northern Cyprus, which is under foreign military occupation by Turkey (against the wishes of the EU)?

The hypocrisy is even more flagrant because some EU states are themselves occupying disputed territories on various continents. One of the most notorious examples is the Falkland Islands. What exactly is the UKs burning security interest in occupying a Latin American island nearly 8,000 miles away? Maybe the EU should boycott the UK as well.

...

If the EU wants to ignore international law and history, the many more pressing Mideast issues, and its own hypocrisy, all for the sake of promoting Israeli-Palestinian peace, then it should at least recognize that unilateral pressure on Israel has only reinforced Palestinian inflexibility. Indeed, it is only the Palestinians who have refused to negotiate peace without preconditions. The EU has pressured the wrong party because its Mideast compass is badly broken.

The EU?s Broken Mideast Compass | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

eots said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become *one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.*
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will eat itself..Racsist
Click to expand...


As you have just posted this
http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/302867-worldly-israeli-contributions-to-humanity-3.html#post7551728
And similar posts there about the Jews, to call them racist on one hand and to support the Jews on the other is rather two-faced, don't you think?


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Letter Netanyahu Should Send to the EU*

July 19, 2013 By Steven Plaut

Editors note: The letter below was formulated on behalf of the Israeli Prime Minister by Steven Plaut:

Dear Leaders and Commissioners of the European Union:

As Prime Minister of Israel I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts with the world about how Israel should solve the Middle East conflict, namely by agreeing to return the occupied Palestinian lands to the Palestinians.

Always willing to be of public service, I have composed a small list of minor preconditions that must be met in order for Israel to agree to return to the Palestinians of the occupied territories what is theirs. These are really just minor corrections in your own plan. After all, why should Israel be the first and the only country to return lands to the original inhabitants from which they seized these lands in occupation?

So here goes:

It goes without saying that the Americans and Canadians must lead the way and show Israel the light by returning all lands that they seized from the Indians and the Mexicans to their original owners.  The Anglo-Saxons, meaning the English, will be invited to return the British isles to their rightful original Celtic and Druid owners, while they return to their own ancestral Saxon homeland in northern Germany and Denmark.  The Danes of course will be asked to move aside. In fact, they will be asked to move back to their Norwegian and Swedish homeland, to make room for the returning Anglo-Saxons.

But that is just a beginning.  The Spanish will be called upon to leave the Iberian peninsula that they wrongfully occupy and return it to the indigenous Celtiberians.  Similarly, the Portuguese occupiers will leave their lands and return them to the Lusitanians.  The Magyars will go back where they came from and leave Hungary to its true owners. The Australians and New Zealanders obviously will have to end their occupations of lands that do not belong to them.  The Thais will leave Thailand.  The Bulgarians will return to their Volga homeland and abandon occupied Bulgaria.  Anyone speaking Spanish will be expected to end his or her forced occupation of Latin America.  It goes without saying that the French will surrender all their lands, starting with Corsica, to their rightful owners. The Turks will go back to Mongolia and leave Anatolia altogether.  The Germans will go back to Gotland.  The Italians will return the boot to the Etruscans and Greeks.

...

So, I say, end these illegal occupations once and for all and return these lands to their rightful owners!

And right after all this, Israel will be happy to implement your proposals in full.

Thanks you for hearing me out.

Sincerely yours,

Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel

The Letter Netanyahu Should Send to the EU | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israels Renewed Warning to Rogue Regimes*

July 23, 2013 By Ari Lieberman







A mysterious explosion that rocked Syrias embattled port city of Lakatia on July 5 has generated a storm of reports pointing the finger at Israel. If true, it would mark the fourth such strike of its kind this year. In January, Israeli warplanes struck a Syrian chemical and biological weapons research facility as well as a Syrian military convoy transporting sophisticated SA-17 anti-aircraft missiles bound for Hezbollah. And in May, the Israelis launched two additional strikes that resulted in the destruction of long-range, Iranian-made surface-to-surface Fateh-110 missiles (or possibly the Syrian variant, the M-600), which were slated to be delivered to Hezbollah.

According to reports, The Israelis targeted a facility that stored some fifty advanced Russian Yakhont P-800 anti-ship cruise missiles. In addition to posing a threat to Israeli shipping lanes, the missiles could have also been deployed against Israeli offshore gas drilling platforms. The recently discovered Tamar, Leviathan and Tanin gas fields off Israels coastline has instantly transformed the once energy-starved Jewish State into a major energy player. Lebanon, at Hezbollahs instigation, has challenged Israels superior maritime claims, and the possibility of the Yakhont falling into the hands of Hezbollah represents a nightmare scenario for regional stability. The missiles also pose a threat to Western ships seeking to resupply Syrian rebels or trying to enforce arms interdiction.

...

Realpolitik notwithstanding, Israel, by its daring raid, has sent a clear message to Syria, Iran and Hezbollah and, to a lesser extent, Hamas, that it will not sit idly by while its interests are threatened. The four known raids that Israel has carried out this year against Syria as well as the 2007 strike near Deir el-Zor and multiple strikes executed against Sudan, the latest of which occurred in October 2012, should serve as an ominous warning to Iran that its WMD facilities are potentially on Israels to do list.

Israel?s Renewed Warning to Rogue Regimes | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*A Call to Arms  Boycott the Boycotters!*

July 26, 2013 By Steven Plaut

...

While members of the Israeli Non-Left have long been at wits end about what sort of appropriate response there should be to these boycott campaigns by the radical Israeli Left, there is in fact a perfect response to them, one that has been staring us all in the face for years.  The very best response by Jewish patriots and friends of Israel to the boycott campaign by the radical Left is to boycott the boycotters.  Sure, most of the boycotters do not themselves have any commercial interests that can be boycotted in any serious Boycott the Boycotters campaign.  But there are exceptions.  And the most effective, most promising, and most morally-unambiguous response to the Leftist boycott of settlements must be the call for an international boycott of the Arledan company.

Why the Arledan company?  Because it is largely owned by the founder of Peace Now, Tzali Reshef.  He is a leading proponent of boycotting Israeli settlers and settlements.  Moreover, the company does business not only in Israel but also in the US and Europe and so would be particularly vulnerable to a Boycott the Boycotters campaign that carried over into these continents.

Tzali Reshef is one of the most radical, most anti-democratic, and most vocal promoters of international efforts to boycott settlers and settlements.  Most delicious of all is the fact that his own company can be harmed simply by letting the Bash-Israel lobby know that it is involved in construction outside Israels Green Line pre-1967 borders in Jerusalem suburbs.  [Ironically, Arledan has already been targeted by anti-Israel activist groups for participating in this construction.]  Reshefs own malevolent political activities would then bite him in his own pocketbook!  Reshef can be made to pay a price for his Boycott-Settlers initiatives simply by passing on information to the Anti-Israel lobby that his own company deserves to be boycotted by them.  What irony it would be should Reshef be penalized by sanctions against his own company coming from BOTH the Zionist-patriot camp and from the Destroy-Israel movement!!

...

So, comrades, we need your help!  Spread the world!  Let everyone you know hear about the need to Boycott the Boycotters.  Drop an email to Tzali at tzaly@arledan.co.il and let him know why you are boycotting his company.  Email addresses of other company officers are here.  Spread the word in the US, Israel and everywhere.  Get a Boycott Arledan bumper sticker.

The moral response to the Boycott Settlements movement must be to boycott the boycotters!   Make them pay a price!   Sauce for the lemming is now sauce for the gander!

A Call to Arms ? Boycott the Boycotters! | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## LA RAM FAN

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the world&#8217;s major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the world&#8217;s leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstances&#8212;while reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



thats fine that it stays just as long as some of the citizens of that country get their wish and their corrupt government is reformed like they want it to be.

their prime ministerr just like our evil dictater,Obama and Bush before him,is evil and corrupt.Just like the CIA needs to be abolished here in the states,so does the mossad there and their corrupt government as well. as long as that happens hopefully in the future,its fine that israel stays. 

I would like the united states to stay as well.just get rid of all these evil instituitons like the CIA,FBI,DOD,NSA and other corrupt instituions and get the majority of people in congress out of office since they only serve wall street and the government of israel instead of their own citizens.


----------



## American_Jihad

*A Rallying Cry from Christians United for Israel*

July 29, 2013 By Joseph Puder






In a world in which the Jewish State has very few friends it can rely on, the Christians United for Israel (CUFI) organization looms large as an invaluable friend.  Founded in 2006, CUFI has 1.3 million members spanning all fifty states of the U.S. On Tuesday, July 23, 2013, CUFI held its 8th national Night to Honor Israel at the Washington, DC Convention Center, packing 4,500 enthusiastic members and supporters from throughout America and beyond, waving American and Israeli flags, and cheering loudly at all references to Israel by an impressive array of speakers.

...

A Rallying Cry from Christians United for Israel | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Bumberclyde

*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*

So is Jihad. Thanks for that.


----------



## RoccoR

Bumberclyde,  _et al,_

Of course!



Bumberclyde said:


> Title said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So is Jihad*. Thanks for that.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yes, we understand this well!



			
				Article 13 said:
			
		

> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.



It is rare that a people build a foundation on which to lay a nationalistic goal that is rooted in WAR.

What do you do with a people or culture that have no higher aspiration than "Jihad?"

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Bumberclyde

RoccoR said:


> Bumberclyde,  _et al,_
> 
> Of course!
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Title said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So is Jihad*. Thanks for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, we understand this well!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is rare that a people build a foundation on which to lay a nationalistic goal that is rooted in WAR.
> 
> What do you do with a people or culture that have no higher aspiration than "Jihad?"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nuke them out of existence if all they want to do is fight.


----------



## Hossfly

Bumberclyde said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde,  _et al,_
> 
> Of course!
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> *So is Jihad*. Thanks for that.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, we understand this well!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is rare that a people build a foundation on which to lay a nationalistic goal that is rooted in WAR.
> 
> What do you do with a people or culture that have no higher aspiration than "Jihad?"
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nuke them out of existence if all they want to do is fight.
Click to expand...

Not necessary.


----------



## Kondor3

True.

Not necessary.

Completing the process of squeezing them off their last few scraps of land in Gaza and the West Bank - and paying them off in the process - should suffice.

I'm sure they'll be happier in Lebanon and Jordan and Syria and Egypt, anyway, amongst their own kind.

Assuming that their own kind are willing to take them in, of course.

Which, based on past Palestinian behaviors and history, is not exactly what one could call a 'certainty'.


----------



## Bumberclyde

*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*

Kinda like herpes?


----------



## Kondor3

Bumberclyde said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*
> 
> Kinda like herpes?



More like a dose of Penicillin in the middle of a cat-house...


----------



## Bumberclyde

Kondor3 said:


> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*
> 
> Kinda like herpes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like a dose of Penicillin in the middle of a cat-house...
Click to expand...


Isn't penicillin supposed to make things BETTER?


----------



## Hossfly

Bumberclyde said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*
> 
> Kinda like herpes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like a dose of Penicillin in the middle of a cat-house...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't penicillin supposed to make things BETTER?
Click to expand...

Good analogy. You catch on quickly.


----------



## Kondor3

Bumberclyde said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*
> 
> Kinda like herpes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like a dose of Penicillin in the middle of a cat-house...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't penicillin supposed to make things BETTER?
Click to expand...


Oh, but it does.

The Penicillin in this case, took a dust-bowl shit-hole that nobody was doing any with, anyway, after several hundred years, and turned it into a comparative garden and productive and industrious region which doubles as an early-warning tripwire for The West against a resurgent and militant Islam.

The Penicillin, in this case, made things *much* better.


----------



## Hossfly

Bumberclyde said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*
> 
> Kinda like herpes?


It's about to come out, people! Anyone making any bets?


----------



## José

*HELL NO!!!!
If Israel is here to stay 
I'm probably next on the hit list!!*


----------



## Kondor3

José;7616762 said:
			
		

> "..._If Israel is here to stay I'm probably next on the hit list!!_..."



If such a thing happens again we may witness the release of nuclear weapons over one of the Centers most prized by The Adversary.

They knocked over two of our buildings and we knocked over two of their countries.

But it seems unlikely we'll keep it conventional if we are hit like that again.

Frankly, I doubt they'll want to tangle with us on that level again anytime soon.


----------



## Hossfly

José;7616762 said:
			
		

> *HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!*


Don't worry, Yousef (AKA José) as long as you behave yourself here, nobody will be after you.  However, if you start planning something, then Homeland Security will be following you very closely.


----------



## RoccoR

José,  _et al,_

If something were to happen to the Empire State Building, and they trace it back to a Palestinian or HAMAS connection, the last thing they will have to worry about is an Israeli Occupation.



			
				José;7616762 said:
			
		

> HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!


*(COMMENT)*



			
				Congressional Research Service RS22967 said:
			
		

> From FY2008 to the present, annual regular-year U.S. bilateral assistance to the West Bank and Gaza Strip has averaged around $500 million (see Table 3 below), including annual averages of approximately $200 million in direct budgetary assistance and approximately $100 million in non-lethal security assistance for the PA in the West Bank.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf



We may pay the bills for the poor, downtrodden Palestinians, and we may look like we are weak and powerless; vulnerable and ripe to threats of terrorism.  But make no mistake, we will get everyone involved, and a few more besides.  _(And I'm the peace advocate.)_  We will bury every HAMAS member we catch in a pigskin body-bag.  If you think living under Israeli Occupation is bad now, you'll beg for them to come back as we turn that territory upside down and sift it through a 1/100" steel mesh.  And you guys won't have anything left to negotiate for in peace talks.

My advice to all you Article Thirteen Jihadist, don't poke the bear.  We ARE!

_*Persuasive in Peace ---- Invincible in War*_​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Bloodrock44

Hossfly said:


> José;7616762 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, Yousef (AKA José) as long as you behave yourself here, nobody will be after you.  However, if you start planning something, then Homeland Security will be following you very closely.
Click to expand...


*Hoss...he is not talking about himself as being next on the list. He is talking about the Empire State Building being next on the list. Could be construed as a threat. *


----------



## Hossfly

Bloodrock44 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;7616762 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, Yousef (AKA José) as long as you behave yourself here, nobody will be after you.  However, if you start planning something, then Homeland Security will be following you very closely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Hoss...he is not talking about himself as being next on the list. He is talking about the Empire State Building being next on the list. Could be construed as a threat. *
Click to expand...

Oh, we're not saying Hosay is suspicious. Why, he's almost a Zionist.


----------



## Hossfly

Bloodrock44 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;7616762 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, Yousef (AKA José) as long as you behave yourself here, nobody will be after you.  However, if you start planning something, then Homeland Security will be following you very closely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Hoss...he is not talking about himself as being next on the list. He is talking about the Empire State Building being next on the list. Could be construed as a threat. *
Click to expand...

You're right.  I misunderstood him and didn't think that he actually had the mind set of those who committed 9/11.  Do you remember the poster of years ago, PKMB?  He once mentioned that an FBI friend told him that all these forums were being monitored and that everyone posting had a folder with them.  I would imagine the retired FBI personnel volunteer to do this so perhaps Yousef  (AKA José) knows something that is going to happen and they will check him out.


----------



## toastman

Is Israel still here?


----------



## Bloodrock44

Hossfly said:


> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, Yousef (AKA José) as long as you behave yourself here, nobody will be after you.  However, if you start planning something, then Homeland Security will be following you very closely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hoss...he is not talking about himself as being next on the list. He is talking about the Empire State Building being next on the list. Could be construed as a threat. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right.  I misunderstood him and didn't think that he actually had the mind set of those who committed 9/11.  Do you remember the poster of years ago, PKMB?  He once mentioned that an FBI friend told him that all these forums were being monitored and that everyone posting had a folder with them.  I would imagine the retired FBI personnel volunteer to do this so perhaps Yousef  (AKA José) knows something that is going to happen and they will check him out.
Click to expand...


*Well with some of these posters you can feel the pent up rage. I wouldn't put anything past them. You know my son is going to the FBI when he finishes his Masters. *


----------



## toastman

A huge Mazal Tov to your son


----------



## Bloodrock44

toastman said:


> A huge Mazal Tov to your son



*Thanks! He's had his heart set on the FBI since he was a kid. The CIA tried to recruit him. They have a program where you intern for them during the summer and commit to 5 years with them and they paid for your college but he turned them down. I had to hold my tongue because I thought it was a great deal. *


----------



## American_Jihad

José;7616762 said:
			
		

> *HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!*








Jose, R U smoking that shit again...


----------



## American_Jihad

*Bibi and the True Believers*

August 2, 2013 By Caroline Glick






The Jerusalem Post. 

Standing next to US Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday morning, Justice Minister Tzipi Livni gushed that through his indefatigable efforts to bring Israeli and Palestinian officials to Washington, Kerry proved that nothing can stop true believers.

As usual, the cognitively challenged Livni told us something she hadnt intended to say. The term true believer was coined by Eric Hoffer in his classic work The True Believer from 1951, which Livni has obviously not read. Hoffers epic study of the psychological roots of fanaticism described a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it.

And that just about sums up Kerry, and the man he works for, US President Barack Obama.

Kerry visited Israel six times in the four months leading up to the meetings in Washington this week, during which Americans, Palestinians and Israelis discussed the size of the table they will be sitting around in the coming discussions.

...

Netanyahu knows that Obama is hostile to Israel and that he will not lift a finger to block Iran from becoming a nuclear power.

So why is he going along with their insanity? In bowing to US pressure and approving the release of 104 terrorist murderers from prison, Netanyahu behaved like a coward. In bowing to US pressure not to bomb Irans nuclear installations, Netanyahu is being a coward.

The most important question for Israel today then is whether our leader is capable of being anything else.

Bibi and the True Believers | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Snouter

I can't believe anyone refers to anyone as "israelis" in the modern age when everyone has access to Bibles and the fact that the Bible has no correlation with anything true.


----------



## sealadaigh

RoccoR said:


> José,  _et al,_
> 
> If something were to happen to the Empire State Building, and they trace it back to a Palestinian or HAMAS connection, the last thing they will have to worry about is an Israeli Occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;7616762 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congressional Research Service RS22967 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From FY2008 to the present, annual regular-year U.S. bilateral assistance to the West Bank and Gaza Strip has averaged around $500 million (see Table 3 below), including annual averages of approximately $200 million in direct budgetary assistance and approximately $100 million in non-lethal security assistance for the PA in the West Bank.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We may pay the bills for the poor, downtrodden Palestinians, and we may look like we are weak and powerless; vulnerable and ripe to threats of terrorism.  But make no mistake, we will get everyone involved, and a few more besides.  _(And I'm the peace advocate.)_  We will bury every HAMAS member we catch in a pigskin body-bag.  If you think living under Israeli Occupation is bad now, you'll beg for them to come back as we turn that territory upside down and sift it through a 1/100" steel mesh.  And you guys won't have anything left to negotiate for in peace talks.
> 
> My advice to all you Article Thirteen Jihadist, don't poke the bear.  We ARE!
> 
> _*Persuasive in Peace ---- Invincible in War*_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


i fear erratic americans like you as much, if not more, than i fear our "enemies" and your imagined "enemies". your fear filled attacks on our constitutionally protected rights practically hands them their victory.

i don't recall any palestinians attacking us and they are not our enemy. i think, actually, that more americans have been killed by israelis than by palestinians. your rage is absolitely laughable as well as inflammatory. pig skin body bags indeed. you've been watchung too much TV, rambo.

"don't poke the bear"? LOL...our national symbol is the bald eagle, isn't the bear russian? are you like a commie, dude? you kind of talk like a shoe bangin' khrushchev.

man, if there ever is any fightin' to be done, please stay as far away from me as you can. i've fought beside hot blooded killers like you and all they really end up doing is getting themselves and their (or my) buddies killed. i prefer cold blood and consideration.


----------



## sealadaigh

Kondor3 said:


> José;7616762 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._If Israel is here to stay I'm probably next on the hit list!!_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If such a thing happens again we may witness the release of nuclear weapons over one of the Centers most prized by The Adversary.
> 
> They knocked over two of our buildings and we knocked over two of their countries.
> 
> But it seems unlikely we'll keep it conventional if we are hit like that again.
> 
> Frankly, I doubt they'll want to tangle with us on that level again anytime soon.
Click to expand...


they, whoever they are, live in hovels but understand wars of economic attrition.

they (islamic militant organisations worldwide) have, i would make a very generous guess, an active troop strength of 250,000. they are though, chairman mao's "fish in the sea".

dropping a nuke over mecca or wherever, well, i don't know if they would actually pray for that to happen but such an act would be a boon to their organisations in that it would completely alienate the arab and perhaps the muslim world against us, and if you think things are bad now...

i doubt very much if those of you who are rattling their sabers actually know what american troop strength is or where we are deployed but i am entirely confident that if we suffer a terrorist attack from germany or japan, we will be will eqi=uped to provice a quick and harsh response.

i like an america that feels with her heart and thinks with her head and acts when those two are aligned with each other. war is not about killing. war is about winning.


----------



## Kondor3

sealadaigh said:


> "..._dropping a nuke over mecca or whereveralienate the arab and perhaps the muslim world against us_..."



Much of that 'world' is already 'against us'.



> "...and if you think things are bad now..."



God forbid - if it comes to open Crusade-Jihad, the West will win this time, at a cost; mostly to the other side, with loss-ratios of 100-to-1 or 1000-to-1 or worse.

Not even the most aggressive-but-sane types want that.

But we are likely to see some-such scenario unfold, should the United States be attacked again on the scale of 9-11.

We will not initiate the conflict, but we will be the odds-on favorite to finish it.



> "..._i doubt very much if those of you who are rattling their sabers actually know what american troop strength is or where we are deployed_..."



With our global reach and technology-driven fast reaction times, it doesn't really matter any more, unless we actually intend to invade and require some redeployment and staging time as preparation, and I think we're done with conventional invasions as punitive raids for a while.



> "..._i like an america that feels with her heart and thinks with her head and acts when those two are aligned with each other_..."



Indeed.

But there is an advantage to acquiring a reputation to over-killing and racking-up 100-to-1 or 1000-to-1 kill ratios and for reacting collectively like a bloody red-eyed Neanderthal when attacked without provocation...

There is an advantage to being feared as savages who are relatively gentle and easy-going until their Inner Caveman is foolishly provoked...

Balancing heart and intellect and goodwill and savagery-on-demand... that's a challenge.



> "..._war is not about killing. war is about winning._"



Yep... although one must oftentimes undertake a great deal of the latter in order to achieve the former.


----------



## sealadaigh

Kondor3 said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._dropping a nuke over mecca or whereveralienate the arab and perhaps the muslim world against us_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much of that 'world' is already 'against us'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "...and if you think things are bad now..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God forbid - if it comes to open Crusade-Jihad, the West will win this time, at a cost; mostly to the other side, with loss-ratios of 100-to-1 or 1000-to-1 or worse.
> 
> Not even the most aggressive-but-sane types want that.
> 
> But we are likely to see some-such scenario unfold, should the United States be attacked again on the scale of 9-11.
> 
> We will not initiate the conflict, but we will be the odds-on favorite to finish it.
> 
> 
> 
> With our global reach and technology-driven fast reaction times, it doesn't really matter any more, unless we actually intend to invade and require some redeployment and staging time as preparation, and I think we're done with conventional invasions as punitive raids for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._i like an america that feels with her heart and thinks with her head and acts when those two are aligned with each other_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> But there is an advantage to acquiring a reputation to over-killing and racking-up 100-to-1 or 1000-to-1 kill ratios and for reacting collectively like a bloody red-eyed Neanderthal when attacked without provocation...
> 
> There is an advantage to being feared as savages who are relatively gentle and easy-going until their Inner Caveman is foolishly provoked...
> 
> Balancing heart and intellect and goodwill and savagery-on-demand... that's a challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._war is not about killing. war is about winning._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep... although one must oftentimes undertake a great deal of the latter in order to achieve the former.
Click to expand...


i remember hunkerin' down in some tall grass on a slight ridgeline overlooking a rice paddy. i looked around and my buddy was counting some unhatched chickens. i went back to my work which consisted of alert boredom when i heard just the oddest noise i had ever heard, sort of like a scream and explosion and a throaty crying sound followed by a silence. spookiest thing i ever heard. i still remember it.

maybe we were striking fear into the hearts of the wrong people. those paddy peeps sure scattered though.

we eventually found his dog tags. the top said later "good body count yesterday." i went back to my arty unit and said i never wanted to hang with the bushmen again, no matter how much arty support they might need.

as for your last sentence...well..."former-latter"...maybe you are mixing up your priorities, although with the talk in this board it seems unlikely.


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> José,  _et al,_
> 
> If something were to happen to the Empire State Building, and they trace it back to a Palestinian or HAMAS connection, the last thing they will have to worry about is an Israeli Occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José;7616762 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HELL NO!!!!
> If Israel is here to stay
> I'm probably next on the hit list!!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congressional Research Service RS22967 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From FY2008 to the present, annual regular-year U.S. bilateral assistance to the West Bank and Gaza Strip has averaged around $500 million (see Table 3 below), including annual averages of approximately $200 million in direct budgetary assistance and approximately $100 million in non-lethal security assistance for the PA in the West Bank.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We may pay the bills for the poor, downtrodden Palestinians, and we may look like we are weak and powerless; vulnerable and ripe to threats of terrorism.  But make no mistake, we will get everyone involved, and a few more besides.  _(And I'm the peace advocate.)_  We will bury every HAMAS member we catch in a pigskin body-bag.  If you think living under Israeli Occupation is bad now, you'll beg for them to come back as we turn that territory upside down and sift it through a 1/100" steel mesh.  And you guys won't have anything left to negotiate for in peace talks.
> 
> My advice to all you Article Thirteen Jihadist, don't poke the bear.  We ARE!
> 
> _*Persuasive in Peace ---- Invincible in War*_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i fear erratic americans like you as much, if not more, than i fear our "enemies" and your imagined "enemies". your fear filled attacks on our constitutionally protected rights practically hands them their victory.
> 
> i don't recall any palestinians attacking us and they are not our enemy. i think, actually, that more americans have been killed by israelis than by palestinians. your rage is absolitely laughable as well as inflammatory. pig skin body bags indeed. you've been watchung too much TV, rambo.
> 
> "don't poke the bear"? LOL...our national symbol is the bald eagle, isn't the bear russian? are you like a commie, dude? you kind of talk like a shoe bangin' khrushchev.
> 
> man, if there ever is any fightin' to be done, please stay as far away from me as you can. i've fought beside hot blooded killers like you and all they really end up doing is getting themselves and their (or my) buddies killed. i prefer cold blood and consideration.
Click to expand...


Blooded killers like you ?? WTF is the matter with you Seal?  God damn you are one vulgar disgusting liar who cannot contain himself.

As for Americans killed by Palestinians: 
Americans Killed or Injured by Palestinian Terrorists (Boker tov, Boulder!)


----------



## MHunterB

"i prefer cold blood and consideration."

So do I.  And that is exactly what Kondor is referring to.  He's not spouting off with 'If I were in charge' fantasies like some egotistical idiot.


----------



## MHunterB

Nor is Rocco a poster who is 'erratic':  he's been very much consistent in his posts AND based on fact and logic.

So I very much do NOT see  whatever 'point' seal imagines he's making:  in fact, I daresay that 'point' simply doesn't really exist.


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> José,  _et al,_
> 
> If something were to happen to the Empire State Building, and they trace it back to a Palestinian or HAMAS connection, the last thing they will have to worry about is an Israeli Occupation.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> We may pay the bills for the poor, downtrodden Palestinians, and we may look like we are weak and powerless; vulnerable and ripe to threats of terrorism.  But make no mistake, we will get everyone involved, and a few more besides.  _(And I'm the peace advocate.)_  We will bury every HAMAS member we catch in a pigskin body-bag.  If you think living under Israeli Occupation is bad now, you'll beg for them to come back as we turn that territory upside down and sift it through a 1/100" steel mesh.  And you guys won't have anything left to negotiate for in peace talks.
> 
> My advice to all you Article Thirteen Jihadist, don't poke the bear.  We ARE!
> 
> _*Persuasive in Peace ---- Invincible in War*_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i fear erratic americans like you as much, if not more, than i fear our "enemies" and your imagined "enemies". your fear filled attacks on our constitutionally protected rights practically hands them their victory.
> 
> i don't recall any palestinians attacking us and they are not our enemy. i think, actually, that more americans have been killed by israelis than by palestinians. your rage is absolitely laughable as well as inflammatory. pig skin body bags indeed. you've been watchung too much TV, rambo.
> 
> "don't poke the bear"? LOL...our national symbol is the bald eagle, isn't the bear russian? are you like a commie, dude? you kind of talk like a shoe bangin' khrushchev.
> 
> man, if there ever is any fightin' to be done, please stay as far away from me as you can. i've fought beside hot blooded killers like you and all they really end up doing is getting themselves and their (or my) buddies killed. i prefer cold blood and consideration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Blooded killers like you ?? WTF is the matter with you Seal?  God damn you are one vulgar disgusting liar who cannot contain himself.
> 
> As for Americans killed by Palestinians:
> Americans Killed or Injured by Palestinian Terrorists (Boker tov, Boulder!)
Click to expand...


if you expect me to apologise for serving in the U.S. Army in combat and not becoming a casuality despite your fondest wishes, you will be waiting a long time. i am sorry that some hot blooded troopies gave away positions in their eagerness when a bit of patience would have preserved the lives of american soldiers. perhaps you wish for more names on the wall.

your link provided no information at all as to how many americans have lost their lives to palestinians and how many have lost their lives to israelis. it was a jewish source anyway so i would expect the usual bias. the only thing i really noticed was a white box on an otherwise dark background with the words "send miney" in it. my internet connection then failed. i tried again and the same thing. and third time is a charm and it is back to send money and little else.


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i fear erratic americans like you as much, if not more, than i fear our "enemies" and your imagined "enemies". your fear filled attacks on our constitutionally protected rights practically hands them their victory.
> 
> i don't recall any palestinians attacking us and they are not our enemy. i think, actually, that more americans have been killed by israelis than by palestinians. your rage is absolitely laughable as well as inflammatory. pig skin body bags indeed. you've been watchung too much TV, rambo.
> 
> "don't poke the bear"? LOL...our national symbol is the bald eagle, isn't the bear russian? are you like a commie, dude? you kind of talk like a shoe bangin' khrushchev.
> 
> man, if there ever is any fightin' to be done, please stay as far away from me as you can. i've fought beside hot blooded killers like you and all they really end up doing is getting themselves and their (or my) buddies killed. i prefer cold blood and consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blooded killers like you ?? WTF is the matter with you Seal?  God damn you are one vulgar disgusting liar who cannot contain himself.
> 
> As for Americans killed by Palestinians:
> Americans Killed or Injured by Palestinian Terrorists (Boker tov, Boulder!)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if you expect me to apologise for serving in the U.S. Army in combat and not becoming a casuality despite your fondest wishes, you will be waiting a long time. i am sorry that some hot blooded troopies gave away positions in their eagerness when a bit of patience would have preserved the lives of american soldiers. perhaps you wish for more names on the wall.
> 
> your link provided no information at all as to how many americans have lost their lives to palestinians and how many have lost their lives to israelis. it was a jewish source anyway so i would expect the usual bias. the only thing i really noficed was a white box on an otherwise dark background with the words "send miney" in it. my internet connection then failed. i tried again and the same thing.
Click to expand...


I have no clue what you are talking about regarding your service. Was this just another one of your deflections ?

LOL and you call my source bias?? Are you blind. Can you read? The link provides a list of Americans killed by Palestinians. What happens when you click the link ?


----------



## sealadaigh

MHunterB said:


> "i prefer cold blood and consideration."
> 
> So do I.  And that is exactly what Kondor is referring to.  He's not spouting off with 'If I were in charge' fantasies like some egotistical idiot.



well apparently you comopletely skipped over his fantasy about nuking some muslim area.

if you are referring to me having some egotistical fantasy, all i am saying is america is tired pf war and is being financially drained by it.


----------



## sealadaigh

MHunterB said:


> Nor is Rocco a poster who is 'erratic':  he's been very much consistent in his posts AND based on fact and logic.
> 
> So I very much do NOT see  whatever 'point' seal imagines he's making:  in fact, I daresay that 'point' simply doesn't really exist.



i consider anyone who runs around rattling sabers an erratic and dangerous individual.

rocco drags in obscure facts and then leaps to a conclusion without logic.

i love my country enough not watch while we waste our children's blood just so old blowhards can thump their chests about how tough they are.

if you would care to recall, many of those who had an opinion as we began these military crusades were vets and opposed to such military action despite the cheers of the armchair patriots, fearing the mideast would turn into another vietnam and here we are now, ten years down the road with no real end in sight and people like rocco and crew are ready to shake, rattle and roll becaise somebody puts up a pic on a message board.

i have a kid serving now. lord protect him from erratic zealotry of americans who are willing to sacrifice him and his fellow soldiers and sailors of the altar of their own failed manhood.

those men and women want to come home now and i want them here. i want to help them come home.


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blooded killers like you ?? WTF is the matter with you Seal?  God damn you are one vulgar disgusting liar who cannot contain himself.
> 
> As for Americans killed by Palestinians:
> Americans Killed or Injured by Palestinian Terrorists (Boker tov, Boulder!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you expect me to apologise for serving in the U.S. Army in combat and not becoming a casuality despite your fondest wishes, you will be waiting a long time. i am sorry that some hot blooded troopies gave away positions in their eagerness when a bit of patience would have preserved the lives of american soldiers. perhaps you wish for more names on the wall.
> 
> your link provided no information at all as to how many americans have lost their lives to palestinians and how many have lost their lives to israelis. it was a jewish source anyway so i would expect the usual bias. the only thing i really noficed was a white box on an otherwise dark background with the words "send miney" in it. my internet connection then failed. i tried again and the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no clue what you are talking about regarding your service. Was this just another one of your deflections ?
> 
> LOL and you call my source bias?? Are you blind. Can you read? The link provides a list of Americans killed by Palestinians. What happens when you click the link ?
Click to expand...


i saw a dark page with bokertov boulder at the top, followed by a zionist quote that indicated the bias. then i saw a bunch of links on the let hand side.


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> if you expect me to apologise for serving in the U.S. Army in combat and not becoming a casuality despite your fondest wishes, you will be waiting a long time. i am sorry that some hot blooded troopies gave away positions in their eagerness when a bit of patience would have preserved the lives of american soldiers. perhaps you wish for more names on the wall.
> 
> your link provided no information at all as to how many americans have lost their lives to palestinians and how many have lost their lives to israelis. it was a jewish source anyway so i would expect the usual bias. the only thing i really noficed was a white box on an otherwise dark background with the words "send miney" in it. my internet connection then failed. i tried again and the same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no clue what you are talking about regarding your service. Was this just another one of your deflections ?
> 
> LOL and you call my source bias?? Are you blind. Can you read? The link provides a list of Americans killed by Palestinians. What happens when you click the link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i saw a dark page with bokertov boulder at the top, followed by a zionist quote that indicated the bias. then i saw a bunch of links on the let hand side.
Click to expand...


There is a full list of Americans killed by Palestinians since 1993. 
This was is response to your ridiculous claim that Palestinians never attacked Americans


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no clue what you are talking about regarding your service. Was this just another one of your deflections ?
> 
> LOL and you call my source bias?? Are you blind. Can you read? The link provides a list of Americans killed by Palestinians. What happens when you click the link ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i saw a dark page with bokertov boulder at the top, followed by a zionist quote that indicated the bias. then i saw a bunch of links on the let hand side.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a full list of Americans killed by Palestinians since 1993.
> This was is response to your ridiculous claim that Palestinians never attacked Americans
Click to expand...


i suppose you would have a link to the post where i said palestinians never attacked americans.


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i saw a dark page with bokertov boulder at the top, followed by a zionist quote that indicated the bias. then i saw a bunch of links on the let hand side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a full list of Americans killed by Palestinians since 1993.
> This was is response to your ridiculous claim that Palestinians never attacked Americans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i suppose you would have a link to the post where i said palestinians never attacked americans.
Click to expand...


Post #451


----------



## toastman

You said 'us'. I assume that meant Americans


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a full list of Americans killed by Palestinians since 1993.
> This was is response to your ridiculous claim that Palestinians never attacked Americans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i suppose you would have a link to the post where i said palestinians never attacked americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post #451
Click to expand...


people can go read the post and the posts that preceded it and see your dishonesty. the dicussion was about the twin trade towers and the empire state building. i then said that i thought more americans had been killed by israelis than palestinians.


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i suppose you would have a link to the post where i said palestinians never attacked americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post #451
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> people can go read the post and the posts that preceded it and see your dishonesty. the dicussion was about the twin trade towers and the empire state building. i then said that i thought more americans had been killed by israelis than palestinians.
Click to expand...


What dishonesty ?? You said you don't recall Palestinians attacking Americans and I showed you the many Americans who were killed by Palestinians. I didn't know you were talking about the Twin Towers


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> You said 'us'. I assume that meant Americans



i did. do you think i am not an american. again, the discussion was about an attack in our soil and centered around an attack in the empire state building.

you are a sniveling little whiner who is cyber stalking everything i post beccause you are angry because you have lied about me and people have called you on it. you are a coward.
leave me alone and stop being such a baby.


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said 'us'. I assume that meant Americans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did. do you think i am not an american. again, the discussion was about an attack in our soil and centered around an attack in the empire state building.
> 
> you are a sniveling little whiner who is cyber stalking everything i post beccause you are angry because you have lied about me and people have called you on it. you are a coward.
> leave me alone and stop being such a baby.
Click to expand...


Hahaha a coward ? A coward is someone who deletes his post after being called out on it and then runs away like the little weasel that he is. YOu said Palestinians never attacked Americans and I proved your claim to be wrong. 
Now you're angry about that so you resort to insults, as usual. THAT is being a cry baby.
If you don't like being called out on your claims, then don't post here . 
Funny you call me a whine when you are known to be a whiner. 
YOu continuously accuse people of what you are guilty of, and that shows just how self conscious you are about the littlest things. You have to be the most immature poster here Seal. Immature and full of shit.  I can smell the shit here from Canada


----------



## toastman

And what was I being dishonest about ? Care to elaborate, or is this another lie ??


----------



## BecauseIKnow

AJ, who the fuck are you talking to you?


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said 'us'. I assume that meant Americans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did. do you think i am not an american. again, the discussion was about an attack in our soil and centered around an attack in the empire state building.
> 
> you are a sniveling little whiner who is cyber stalking everything i post beccause you are angry because you have lied about me and people have called you on it. you are a coward.
> leave me alone and stop being such a baby.
Click to expand...


Oh, and here's another incident:

Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That was done on U.S soil.
Maybe you should be doing a little more research instead of lying and being a bigot, before you make stupid claims. Run along now little coward


----------



## IlarMeilyr

BecauseIKnow said:


> AJ, *who the fuck are you talking to you?*



BecauseYouBlow seems to imagine ^ that was an actual "sentence."



What a stupid dick it is.


----------



## toastman

Who the fuck was HE talking to ?????


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said 'us'. I assume that meant Americans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did. do you think i am not an american. again, the discussion was about an attack in our soil and centered around an attack in the empire state building.
> 
> you are a sniveling little whiner who is cyber stalking everything i post beccause you are angry because you have lied about me and people have called you on it. you are a coward.
> leave me alone and stop being such a baby.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, and here's another incident:
> 
> Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> That was done on U.S soil.
> Maybe you should be doing a little more research instead of lying and being a bigot, before you make stupid claims. Run along now little coward
Click to expand...


again, we were discussing something in a very narrowly defined area.

you are grasping at straws.

try leon klinghoffer too. i have mentioned him a few times in the past as well.

and there was a wrestler competing for israel that competed in the munich olympics as well. you are a freak. there was no link and coyote called you on it. there was no link and i called you on it and now, you are grasping at any straw you can find.

stop making a complete fool of yourself. drop it. you accused me of something. i asked for a link, you had none. the end.


----------



## toastman

sealadaigh said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i did. do you think i am not an american. again, the discussion was about an attack in our soil and centered around an attack in the empire state building.
> 
> you are a sniveling little whiner who is cyber stalking everything i post beccause you are angry because you have lied about me and people have called you on it. you are a coward.
> leave me alone and stop being such a baby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and here's another incident:
> 
> Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> That was done on U.S soil.
> Maybe you should be doing a little more research instead of lying and being a bigot, before you make stupid claims. Run along now little coward
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> again, we were discussing something in a very narrowly defined area.
> 
> you are grasping at straws.
> 
> try leon klinghoffer too. i have mentioned him a few times in the past as well.
> 
> and there was a wrestler competing for israel that competed in the munich olympics as well. you are a freak. there was no link and coyote called you on it. there was no link and i called you on it and now, you are grasping at any straw you can find.
> 
> stop making a complete fool of yourself. drop it. you accused me of something. i asked for a link, you had none. the end.
Click to expand...


I don't consider the assasination of RObert Kennedy as grasping at straws, but whatever


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> Who the fuck was HE talking to ?????



LOL...figure it out, it ain't that hard. if AJ was a snake he would bite you right between the eyes...well...if he wasn't shaking too much.


----------



## toastman

I don't know who AJ is


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and here's another incident:
> 
> Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> That was done on U.S soil.
> Maybe you should be doing a little more research instead of lying and being a bigot, before you make stupid claims. Run along now little coward
> 
> 
> 
> 
> again, we were discussing something in a very narrowly defined area.
> 
> you are grasping at straws.
> 
> try leon klinghoffer too. i have mentioned him a few times in the past as well.
> 
> and there was a wrestler competing for israel that competed in the munich olympics as well. you are a freak. there was no link and coyote called you on it. there was no link and i called you on it and now, you are grasping at any straw you can find.
> 
> stop making a complete fool of yourself. drop it. you accused me of something. i asked for a link, you had none. the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't consider the assasination of RObert Kennedy as grasping at straws, but whatever
Click to expand...


the discussion began and centered around aand evolved from this post...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7616762-post437.html

and if you had an ounce of sense you would be able to understand that.

as for your link, i e-mailed it to a friend and asked him to copy it and e-mail it to me and it is even more ridiculous than i thought. for proof you are offering me some cat, a jew, compiling a list that is absolutely ridiculous. i can see why you didn't post the list and posted a link instead...

my fave statistic was "U.S. citizens injured: 
One as-yet-unnamed U.S. citizen (reportedly a diplomat)"

now who could debate the accuracy of a list solicited over a blogspot with an entry such as that. i almost though i would see that oft cited jew, seymour butz on the list.

also, many, if not most, of those US citisens were settlers so ya know what, i am going with them being israelis as they had an intent to live there and weren't tourists.

weeee-oooooo. reality wants you to come home, toastie. zionism needs you. LOLOL.


----------



## sealadaigh

toastman said:


> I don't know who AJ is



neither did i. it took me a whole 15 seconds to figure it out.


----------



## toastman

Good for you. Would you like a cookie ???


----------



## Kondor3

sealadaigh said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> "i prefer cold blood and consideration."
> 
> So do I.  And that is exactly what Kondor is referring to.  He's not spouting off with 'If I were in charge' fantasies like some egotistical idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well apparently you comopletely skipped over his fantasy about nuking some muslim area.
Click to expand...


"..._fantasy about nuking_..." ?

Nonsense.

My words were...

"..._If such a thing happens again we *may* witness the release of nuclear weapons over one of the Centers most prized by The Adversary_..."

I did not say "_we should_"...or "_if it it was up to me_", rather, I said "..._we may witness_..."

...which is both _conjured nightmare scenari_o and _warning klaxon_; speculating on our growing reluctance to invest blood and treasure into large-scale punitive raids (invasions) and the likelihood that a second large scale attack upon our shores by Muslim terrorists would awaken a blood lust in the collective American psyche not seen during the lifetimes of most of the folks who frequent these boards.

The blood lust of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Tokyo and Dresden and Hamburg and the like.

You confuse cold, calculating speculation about conjured nightmare scenarios - as public warning - with some kind of war-mongering fantasy statement.

Your understandable abhorrence for war tainted your judgment sufficiently for you to make a mistake in your diagnosis of the nature and purpose of the remarks.



> "..._i am saying is america is tired pf war and is being financially drained by it._"



Which is why Drones and Bombs look more (dangerously) attractive now than ever.

Oh, and, as an aside, let's face it, America has grown tired of war (Iraq, Afghanistan) because of the way in which these were planned and executed; without reasonable and finite manageable and affordable goals and timelines.

Much like the way Sammy screwed over his Green Suits during 'Nam Times by letting the goddamned thing drag on and on with no clear-cut goals and no exit timeline or strategy.

And, although Afghanistan was a Righteous Shoot, Iraq was anything but - we should never have gone in there - just like 'Nam.

Powell and Schwarzkopf knew that "_Poor Planning and Execution and No Goals or Timelines_" was the wrong way to fight a war and that's why they played the Gulf War (1991) the way they did - brilliant strategy and tactics coupled with high-caliber political footwork and intelligent and realistic goals and timelines and such.

The folks who took over Management *after* Powell and Schwarzkopf (both political and military) lost sight of *WHY* we were so successful in the Gulf War and half-repeated a lot of the management and execution mistakes we made in 'Nam - in sand and in the high country this time, rather than the jungles, and with much the same results in the long run, and resulting in a similar - if somewhat lesser at present - Public Exhaustion outcome.

Aggressive and unprovoked war-making is not the answer.

But neither is abandoning our global posture and pulling in our horns and playing the shrinking violet.

Nor is it in our best interests to allow a re-awakening, resurgent, hostile, vicious, dangerous, intolerant and militant Islam to take the field unchallenged, within or outside the context of Israel.


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> "i prefer cold blood and consideration."
> 
> So do I.  And that is exactly what Kondor is referring to.  He's not spouting off with 'If I were in charge' fantasies like some egotistical idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well apparently you comopletely skipped over his fantasy about nuking some muslim area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "..._fantasy about nuking_..." ?
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> My words were...
> 
> "..._If such a thing happens again we *may* witness the release of nuclear weapons over one of the Centers most prized by The Adversary_..."
> 
> I did not say "_we should_"...or "_if it it was up to me_", rather, I said "..._we may witness_..."
> 
> ...which is both _conjured nightmare scenari_o and _warning klaxon_; speculating on our growing reluctance to invest blood and treasure into large-scale punitive raids (invasions) and the likelihood that a second large scale attack upon our shores by Muslim terrorists would awaken a blood lust in the collective American psyche not seen during the lifetimes of most of the folks who frequent these boards.
> 
> The blood lust of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Tokyo and Dresden and Hamburg and the like.
> 
> You confuse cold, calculating speculation about conjured nightmare scenarios - as public warning - with some kind of war-mongering fantasy statement.
> 
> Your understandable abhorrence for war tainted your judgment sufficiently for you to make a mistake in your diagnosis of the nature and purpose of the remarks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._i am saying is america is tired pf war and is being financially drained by it._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which is why Drones and Bombs look more (dangerously) attractive now than ever.
> 
> Oh, and, as an aside, let's face it, America has grown tired of war (Iraq, Afghanistan) because of the way in which these were planned and executed; without reasonable and finite manageable and affordable goals and timelines.
> 
> Much like the way Sammy screwed over his Green Suits during 'Nam Times by letting the goddamned thing drag on and on with no clear-cut goals and no exit timeline or strategy.
> 
> And, although Afghanistan was a Righteous Shoot, Iraq was anything but - we should never have gone in there - just like 'Nam.
> 
> Powell and Schwarzkopf knew that "_Poor Planning and Execution and No Goals or Timelines_" was the wrong way to fight a war and that's why they played the Gulf War (1991) the way they did - brilliant strategy and tactics coupled with high-caliber political footwork and intelligent and realistic goals and timelines and such.
> 
> The folks who took over Management *after* Powell and Schwarzkopf (both political and military) lost sight of *WHY* we were so successful in the Gulf War and half-repeated a lot of the management and execution mistakes we made in 'Nam - in sand and in the high country this time, rather than the jungles, and with much the same results in the long run, and resulting in a similar - if somewhat lesser at present - Public Exhaustion outcome.
Click to expand...


Don't mind Seal, he's just distorting words like he always does to further his bullshit agenda


----------



## sealadaigh

Kondor3 said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> "i prefer cold blood and consideration."
> 
> So do I.  And that is exactly what Kondor is referring to.  He's not spouting off with 'If I were in charge' fantasies like some egotistical idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well apparently you comopletely skipped over his fantasy about nuking some muslim area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "..._fantasy about nuking_..." ?
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> My words were...
> 
> "..._If such a thing happens again we *may* witness the release of nuclear weapons over one of the Centers most prized by The Adversary_..."
> 
> I did not say "_we should_"...or "_if it it was up to me_", rather, I said "..._we may witness_..."
> 
> ...which is both _conjured nightmare scenari_o and _warning klaxon_; speculating on our growing reluctance to invest blood and treasure into large-scale punitive raids (invasions) and the likelihood that a second large scale attack upon our shores by Muslim terrorists would awaken a blood lust in the collective American psyche not seen during the lifetimes of most of the folks who frequent these boards.
> 
> The blood lust of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Tokyo and Dresden and Hamburg and the like.
> 
> You confuse cold, calculating speculation about conjured nightmare scenarios - as public warning - with some kind of war-mongering fantasy statement.
> 
> Your understandable abhorrence for war tainted your judgment sufficiently for you to make a mistake in your diagnosis of the nature and purpose of the remarks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._i am saying is america is tired pf war and is being financially drained by it._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which is why Drones and Bombs look more (dangerously) attractive now than ever.
> 
> Oh, and, as an aside, let's face it, America has grown tired of war (Iraq, Afghanistan) because of the way in which these were planned and executed; without reasonable and finite manageable and affordable goals and timelines.
> 
> Much like the way Sammy screwed over his Green Suits during 'Nam Times by letting the goddamned thing drag on and on with no clear-cut goals and no exit timeline or strategy.
> 
> And, although Afghanistan was a Righteous Shoot, Iraq was anything but - we should never have gone in there - just like 'Nam.
> 
> Powell and Schwarzkopf knew that "_Poor Planning and Execution and No Goals or Timelines_" was the wrong way to fight a war and that's why they played the Gulf War (1991) the way they did - brilliant strategy and tactics coupled with high-caliber political footwork and intelligent and realistic goals and timelines and such.
> 
> The folks who took over Management *after* Powell and Schwarzkopf (both political and military) lost sight of *WHY* we were so successful in the Gulf War and half-repeated a lot of the management and execution mistakes we made in 'Nam - in sand and in the high country this time, rather than the jungles, and with much the same results in the long run, and resulting in a similar - if somewhat lesser at present - Public Exhaustion outcome.
> 
> Aggressive and unprovoked war-making is not the answer.
> 
> But neither is abandoning our global posture and pulling in our horns and playing the shrinking violet.
> 
> Nor is it in our best interests to allow a re-awakening, resurgent, hostile, vicious, dangerous, intolerant and militant Islam to take the field unchallenged, within or outside the context of Israel.
Click to expand...



"...If such a thing happens again we may witness the release of nuclear weapons over one of the Centers most prized by The Adversary..." sounds like a fantasy scenario  to me.


----------



## Kondor3

sealadaigh said:


> "..._If such a thing happens again we may witness the release of nuclear weapons over one of the Centers most prized by The Adversary_..." sounds like a fantasy scenario  to me.



You are entitled to your opinion - previous or current; I've gone out of my way to shed some light on that, but that's as far as I intend to take it.


----------



## Hossfly

sealadaigh said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nor is Rocco a poster who is 'erratic':  he's been very much consistent in his posts AND based on fact and logic.
> 
> So I very much do NOT see  whatever 'point' seal imagines he's making:  in fact, I daresay that 'point' simply doesn't really exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i consider anyone who runs around rattling sabers an erratic and dangerous individual.
> 
> rocco drags in obscure facts and then leaps to a conclusion without logic.
> 
> i love my country enough not watch while we waste our children's blood just so old blowhards can thump their chests about how tough they are.
> 
> if you would care to recall, many of those who had an opinion as we began these military crusades were vets and opposed to such military action despite the cheers of the armchair patriots, fearing the mideast would turn into another vietnam and here we are now, ten years down the road with no real end in sight and people like rocco and crew are ready to shake, rattle and roll becaise somebody puts up a pic on a message board.
> 
> i have a kid serving now. lord protect him from erratic zealotry of americans who are willing to sacrifice him and his fellow soldiers and sailors of the altar of their own failed manhood.
> 
> those men and women want to come home now and i want them here. i want to help them come home.
Click to expand...

The bottom line here is that Seal himself is erratic, and he doesn't like the fact that Rocco is an intelligent man and knows much more than the average poster or viewer does about what is going on.  If Rocco exhibited his liking and admiration for the pro Palestinians as Seal does, Seal would love Rocco.  The crux of the matter is that Rocco doesn't, and Seal can't stand that.  By the way, I think we all have learned a lot from Rocco, facts that we would never have learned if he wasn't here posting.  It's a shame that there are some who don't appreciate a poster like Rocco.


----------



## toastman

Hossfly said:


> sealadaigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nor is Rocco a poster who is 'erratic':  he's been very much consistent in his posts AND based on fact and logic.
> 
> So I very much do NOT see  whatever 'point' seal imagines he's making:  in fact, I daresay that 'point' simply doesn't really exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i consider anyone who runs around rattling sabers an erratic and dangerous individual.
> 
> rocco drags in obscure facts and then leaps to a conclusion without logic.
> 
> i love my country enough not watch while we waste our children's blood just so old blowhards can thump their chests about how tough they are.
> 
> if you would care to recall, many of those who had an opinion as we began these military crusades were vets and opposed to such military action despite the cheers of the armchair patriots, fearing the mideast would turn into another vietnam and here we are now, ten years down the road with no real end in sight and people like rocco and crew are ready to shake, rattle and roll becaise somebody puts up a pic on a message board.
> 
> i have a kid serving now. lord protect him from erratic zealotry of americans who are willing to sacrifice him and his fellow soldiers and sailors of the altar of their own failed manhood.
> 
> those men and women want to come home now and i want them here. i want to help them come home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bottom line here is that Seal himself is erratic, and he doesn't like the fact that Rocco is an intelligent man and knows much more than the average poster or viewer does about what is going on.  If Rocco exhibited his liking and admiration for the pro Palestinians as Seal does, Seal would love Rocco.  The crux of the matter is that Rocco doesn't, and Seal can't stand that.  By the way, I think we all have learned a lot from Rocco, facts that we would never have learned if he wasn't here posting.  It's a shame that there are some who don't appreciate a poster like Rocco.
Click to expand...


I don't think there is a single pro - Israeli here that Seal hasn't called a bigot or racist. His bias is unbelievably high , and this was exposed the way he responded to Rocco, who has never insulted or offended anyone here and was merely giving his opinion. Seal just couldn't handle it


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, Well Keep Building*

August 9, 2013 By P. David Hornik 







This week the Israeli cabinet approved a new national-priorities map by 15 votes and four abstentions.

Each year the map extends special benefits to a list of communities. This year, out of 600 that were chosen, 90 are in the West Bank, and 9 of those are small settlements outside the large settlement blocs.

...

Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, We?ll Keep Building | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

American_Jihad said:


> *Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, Well Keep Building*
> 
> August 9, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This week the Israeli cabinet approved a new national-priorities map by 15 votes and four abstentions.
> 
> Each year the map extends special benefits to a list of communities. This year, out of 600 that were chosen, 90 are in the West Bank, and 9 of those are small settlements outside the large settlement blocs.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, We?ll Keep Building | FrontPage Magazine



Israel has no need to say sorry.  Israel has nothing whatsoever to apologize for.  Nobody has the right to tell Israel where she can and if she can build.  As I have posted before, there is a severe housing shortage in Israel and as the land in the WB is vacant, then of course it should be built on.


----------



## Bumberclyde

Sweet_Caroline said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, Well Keep Building*
> 
> August 9, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> This week the Israeli cabinet approved a new national-priorities map by 15 votes and four abstentions.
> 
> Each year the map extends special benefits to a list of communities. This year, out of 600 that were chosen, 90 are in the West Bank, and 9 of those are small settlements outside the large settlement blocs.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, We?ll Keep Building | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no need to say sorry.  Israel has nothing whatsoever to apologize for.  Nobody has the right to tell Israel where she can and if she can build.  As I have posted before, there is a severe housing shortage in Israel and as the land in the WB is vacant, then of course it should be built on.
Click to expand...


^^^^^^^^ It's this kind of mindset that puts Israel squarely in front of a future arab nuke, and why they're working so hard to build some. 

How fun it must be to be an internet tough guy who doesn't mind other people fighting it out for your own hatred of arabs.The quintessential anti-semite, you hate arabs AND you don't care much for Israelis either, since you encourage them to put themselves in harm's way.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Bumberclyde said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, We&#8217;ll Keep Building*
> 
> August 9, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> This week the Israeli cabinet approved a new national-priorities map by 15 votes and four abstentions.
> 
> Each year the map extends special benefits to a list of communities. This year, out of 600 that were chosen, 90 are in the West Bank, and 9 of those are small settlements outside the large settlement blocs.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel to Palestinians: Sorry, We?ll Keep Building | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no need to say sorry.  Israel has nothing whatsoever to apologize for.  Nobody has the right to tell Israel where she can and if she can build.  As I have posted before, there is a severe housing shortage in Israel and as the land in the WB is vacant, then of course it should be built on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^ It's this kind of mindset that puts Israel squarely in front of a future arab nuke, and why they're working so hard to build some.
> 
> How fun it must be to be an internet tough guy who doesn't mind other people fighting it out for your own hatred of arabs.The quintessential anti-semite, you hate arabs AND you don't care much for Israelis either, since you encourage them to put themselves in harm's way.
Click to expand...


It is true.  Israel is fully entitled to the land.  I showed you so soon after you joined.  The Jews were given the land of Israel for their own state and the arabs, after having been consulted, agreed to have surrounding countries.  No law exists stopping Israel building houses and house-building is not illegal.  Why should you think Israel should be nuked because of that?  The arabs even rejected 95% of land offered to them by Israel a few years ago in talks brokered with Bill Clinton.  

I don't hate arabs, and you are having a go at me simply because you don't like to hear the truth.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest you are getting agitated.  I have spoken to worse types than you before on the internet.  

I do care for Israel and pray for it and its leaders and military every single day.  Israel will survive and thrive long after haters of it are dust.


----------



## Bumberclyde

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no need to say sorry.  Israel has nothing whatsoever to apologize for.  Nobody has the right to tell Israel where she can and if she can build.  As I have posted before, there is a severe housing shortage in Israel and as the land in the WB is vacant, then of course it should be built on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^ It's this kind of mindset that puts Israel squarely in front of a future arab nuke, and why they're working so hard to build some.
> 
> How fun it must be to be an internet tough guy who doesn't mind other people fighting it out for your own hatred of arabs.The quintessential anti-semite, you hate arabs AND you don't care much for Israelis either, since you encourage them to put themselves in harm's way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is true.  Israel is fully entitled to the land.  I showed you so soon after you joined.  The Jews were given the land of Israel for their own state and the arabs, after having been consulted, agreed to have surrounding countries.  No law exists stopping Israel building houses and house-building is not illegal.  Why should you think Israel should be nuked because of that?  The arabs even rejected 95% of land offered to them by Israel a few years ago in talks brokered with Bill Clinton.
> 
> I don't hate arabs, and you are having a go at me simply because you don't like to hear the truth.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest you are getting agitated.  I have spoken to worse types than you before on the internet.
> 
> I do care for Israel and pray for it and its leaders and military every single day. * Israel will survive and thrive long after haters of it are dust.*
Click to expand...

So you think that Israel will outlast the Arab world? Even AFTER they develop nukes? You don't love Israel, because your hatred of arabs overwhelms any possible love for Israel and blinds you to the truth, which is that unless Israel makes peace, they will never have peace.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Bumberclyde said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^ It's this kind of mindset that puts Israel squarely in front of a future arab nuke, and why they're working so hard to build some.
> 
> How fun it must be to be an internet tough guy who doesn't mind other people fighting it out for your own hatred of arabs.The quintessential anti-semite, you hate arabs AND you don't care much for Israelis either, since you encourage them to put themselves in harm's way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is true.  Israel is fully entitled to the land.  I showed you so soon after you joined.  The Jews were given the land of Israel for their own state and the arabs, after having been consulted, agreed to have surrounding countries.  No law exists stopping Israel building houses and house-building is not illegal.  Why should you think Israel should be nuked because of that?  The arabs even rejected 95% of land offered to them by Israel a few years ago in talks brokered with Bill Clinton.
> 
> I don't hate arabs, and you are having a go at me simply because you don't like to hear the truth.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest you are getting agitated.  I have spoken to worse types than you before on the internet.
> 
> I do care for Israel and pray for it and its leaders and military every single day. * Israel will survive and thrive long after haters of it are dust.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you think that Israel will outlast the Arab world? Even AFTER they develop nukes? You don't love Israel, because your hatred of arabs overwhelms any possible love for Israel and blinds you to the truth, which is that unless Israel makes peace, they will never have peace.
Click to expand...


Of course Israel will outlast the Arab world.  I love Israel and don't hate arabs at all.  The arabs are the ones with all the hate.  Non-Jews are happy living in Israel which treats them well.  They have access to state of the art medical treatment, have the right to vote and they have arab members in the Israeli parliament etc.  Why should Israel roll over and let the arabs trample over them.  The Jews finally are back in their land and are not going to let go of it.  

The time for the "woe is me mentality" of Jews without a homeland is long gone.


----------



## Bumberclyde

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is true.  Israel is fully entitled to the land.  I showed you so soon after you joined.  The Jews were given the land of Israel for their own state and the arabs, after having been consulted, agreed to have surrounding countries.  No law exists stopping Israel building houses and house-building is not illegal.  Why should you think Israel should be nuked because of that?  The arabs even rejected 95% of land offered to them by Israel a few years ago in talks brokered with Bill Clinton.
> 
> I don't hate arabs, and you are having a go at me simply because you don't like to hear the truth.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest you are getting agitated.  I have spoken to worse types than you before on the internet.
> 
> I do care for Israel and pray for it and its leaders and military every single day. * Israel will survive and thrive long after haters of it are dust.*
> 
> 
> 
> So you think that Israel will outlast the Arab world? Even AFTER they develop nukes? You don't love Israel, because your hatred of arabs overwhelms any possible love for Israel and blinds you to the truth, which is that unless Israel makes peace, they will never have peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Of course Israel will outlast the Arab world*.  I love Israel and don't hate arabs at all.  The arabs are the ones with all the hate.  Non-Jews are happy living in Israel which treats them well.  They have access to state of the art medical treatment, have the right to vote and they have arab members in the Israeli parliament etc.  Why should Israel roll over and let the arabs trample over them.  The Jews finally are back in their land and are not going to let go of it.
> 
> The time for the "woe is me mentality" of Jews without a homeland is long gone.
Click to expand...


 

History tells up that the Jews have been getting their arses booted all around the globe and back, I think this is just the start of the next lap!


----------



## Bloodrock44

Bumberclyde said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you think that Israel will outlast the Arab world? Even AFTER they develop nukes? You don't love Israel, because your hatred of arabs overwhelms any possible love for Israel and blinds you to the truth, which is that unless Israel makes peace, they will never have peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Of course Israel will outlast the Arab world*.  I love Israel and don't hate arabs at all.  The arabs are the ones with all the hate.  Non-Jews are happy living in Israel which treats them well.  They have access to state of the art medical treatment, have the right to vote and they have arab members in the Israeli parliament etc.  Why should Israel roll over and let the arabs trample over them.  The Jews finally are back in their land and are not going to let go of it.
> 
> The time for the "woe is me mentality" of Jews without a homeland is long gone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History tells up that the Jews have been getting their arses booted all around the globe and back, I think this is just the start of the next lap!
Click to expand...


*History tells us: NEVER AGAIN!!!*


----------



## Hossfly

Bumberclyde said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^ It's this kind of mindset that puts Israel squarely in front of a future arab nuke, and why they're working so hard to build some.
> 
> How fun it must be to be an internet tough guy who doesn't mind other people fighting it out for your own hatred of arabs.The quintessential anti-semite, you hate arabs AND you don't care much for Israelis either, since you encourage them to put themselves in harm's way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is true.  Israel is fully entitled to the land.  I showed you so soon after you joined.  The Jews were given the land of Israel for their own state and the arabs, after having been consulted, agreed to have surrounding countries.  No law exists stopping Israel building houses and house-building is not illegal.  Why should you think Israel should be nuked because of that?  The arabs even rejected 95% of land offered to them by Israel a few years ago in talks brokered with Bill Clinton.
> 
> I don't hate arabs, and you are having a go at me simply because you don't like to hear the truth.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest you are getting agitated.  I have spoken to worse types than you before on the internet.
> 
> I do care for Israel and pray for it and its leaders and military every single day. * Israel will survive and thrive long after haters of it are dust.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you think that Israel will outlast the Arab world? Even AFTER they develop nukes? You don't love Israel, because your hatred of arabs overwhelms any possible love for Israel and blinds you to the truth, which is that unless Israel makes peace, they will never have peace.
Click to expand...

It's been written, Clyde. We know what the outcome will be.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Bumberclyde said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you think that Israel will outlast the Arab world? Even AFTER they develop nukes? You don't love Israel, because your hatred of arabs overwhelms any possible love for Israel and blinds you to the truth, which is that unless Israel makes peace, they will never have peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Of course Israel will outlast the Arab world*.  I love Israel and don't hate arabs at all.  The arabs are the ones with all the hate.  Non-Jews are happy living in Israel which treats them well.  They have access to state of the art medical treatment, have the right to vote and they have arab members in the Israeli parliament etc.  Why should Israel roll over and let the arabs trample over them.  The Jews finally are back in their land and are not going to let go of it.
> 
> The time for the "woe is me mentality" of Jews without a homeland is long gone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History tells up that the Jews have been getting their arses booted all around the globe and back, I think this is just the start of the next lap!
Click to expand...


No more next laps.  The Jews aren't going nowhere.
They have their home now.  Nobody is going to kick them out.  Sorry about that!!!


----------



## RoccoR

Sweet_Caroline;  _et al,_

Nearly a century ago, some men at the top of _Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs_ had time to think about this very issue and make it an agenda item on the table of the powers that be of their time.



Sweet_Caroline said:


> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Of course Israel will outlast the Arab world*.  I love Israel and don't hate arabs at all.  The arabs are the ones with all the hate.  Non-Jews are happy living in Israel which treats them well.  They have access to state of the art medical treatment, have the right to vote and they have arab members in the Israeli parliament etc.  Why should Israel roll over and let the arabs trample over them.  The Jews finally are back in their land and are not going to let go of it.
> 
> The time for the "woe is me mentality" of Jews without a homeland is long gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History tells up that the Jews have been getting their arses booted all around the globe and back, I think this is just the start of the next lap!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No more next laps.  The Jews aren't going nowhere.
> They have their home now.  Nobody is going to kick them out.  Sorry about that!!!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

A decision was made.  Not everyone agreed with it, but a decision WAS made.  What the Sultan's of the Ottoman Empire started, the Allied Powers would implement.  And once again, it is up before the new powers of the world.

I can just see the ghostly images of Lord Balfour and Dr Weizmann rolling over in their graves, rising up and haunting us over the dilemma:  we've merely traded one diaspora _(Jewish)_ for another diaspora _(Palestinian)_!  _*(Which was not the original intention at all!)*_

Now, a hundred years later, we must redo the Palestinian National Home [what GA Resolution 181(II) called the Arab State] which has been recognized as having a historical connection with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that territory.  We are, in effect, back to the beginning.

*(Déjà Vu)*

We have to take a step back an ask:  Is this just a strong sensation that an experience currently being experienced - that has been experienced in the past?  _(Rhetorical)_ *No!*  It is the exact same dilemma that has been experienced in the past!

Now the analysis says, that if, in another century, we don't want to be face with the exact same experience --- yet again, then we must somehow make the two-state solution (or some variant) work.  Right now, most of use see this as a dilemma faced solely by the Israelis and Palestinians.  But that could not be farther from the truth.  This is a parental issue that went wrong in 1919 when basic tenants of the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement were sidetracked _("mindful of the racial kindship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realizing that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations, is through the closest possible, collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them")_.

We, the Western Powers and the Arab League, must go back as the parental guides for the parties in dispute, and reconnect the bonds between the Jewish and the Palestinian.  We must settle our differences so that we may work together and set the conditions that will finally settle the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R

PS:  My apologies.  I screwed the conversational quotations.  I think I repaired them.  Many thanks to Sweet_Caroline for her observation.  I again, make an open apology.


----------



## Kondor3

Bumberclyde said:


> "..._History tells up that the Jews have been getting their arses booted all around the globe and back_..."



True.

Which is why they took-back their old ancestral and spiritual homeland.

And developed the skills and technologies required to put an end to all of that.



> "..._I think this is just the start of the next lap!_"



Given the Israeli military and weapons edge, and in light of the 6,000,000 they lost within living memory, the Muslims will be obliged to accept 100-to-1 or 1000-to-1 kill ratios in order to take it away, this time.

And there's no way the Arabs are up for that.

It seems likely that neither you nor I will live to see the beginning of the 'next lap'... nor our children... nor grandchildren... nor great-grandchildren... nor...

There *is* no 'next lap'... the Jews are back home, and they're there to stay... no more Nebuchadnezzars...no more Tituses... no more Masadas... it's theirs again now... and they'll keep it this time.

In the words of the old Cajun chef, Justin Wilson... "Gaaarrrr---rrrroonnnnn---teeeeed!"


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Kondor3 said:


> Bumberclyde said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._History tells up that the Jews have been getting their arses booted all around the globe and back_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> Which is why they took-back their old ancestral and spiritual homeland.
> 
> And developed the skills and technologies required to put an end to all of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._I think this is just the start of the next lap!_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Given the Israeli military and weapons edge, and in light of the 6,000,000 they lost within living memory, the Muslims will be obliged to accept 100-to-1 or 1000-to-1 kill ratios in order to take it away, this time.
> 
> And there's no way the Arabs are up for that.
> 
> It seems likely that neither you nor I will live to see the beginning of the 'next lap'... nor our children... nor grandchildren... nor great-grandchildren... nor...
> 
> There *is* no 'next lap'... the Jews are back home, and they're there to stay... no more Nebuchadnezzars...no more Tituses... no more Masadas... it's theirs again now... and they'll keep it this time.
> 
> In the words of the old Cajun chef, Justin Wilson... "Gaaarrrr---rrrroonnnnn---teeeeed!"
Click to expand...

Excellent.  There is absolutely no way Israel will be going anywhere, voluntarily or compulsory.  The Jews have their land back and nobody has any right or might to take it away.


----------



## RoccoR

Sweet_Caroline,  _et al,_

Yes, let's stipulate --- for the moment that "nobody has any right or might to take it away."



Sweet_Caroline said:


> Excellent.  There is absolutely no way Israel will be going anywhere, voluntarily or compulsory.  The Jews have their land back and nobody has any right or might to take it away.


*(COMMENT)*

Clearly, we all understand that what Israel holds now (sovereign + occupation) is more than what was apportioned by the General Assembly back in 1947.

Can not the Israel also bend a little, and make the sacrifice for the greater good of peace and cooperation?  Is there no room for compromise?

I have been, on many occasion, considered an outspoken opponent of the Palestinian.  I guess because I oppose their basic philosophies.  I do not think they are a nation of peaceful people; an have done nothing to change my mind.  But having said that, I also see a need for the Israeli to examine the soul of their demands and aspirations.  They do need to reexamine their core position on what is acceptable and what is essential.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

Rocco... rightly or wrongly, it's my impression that history provides us with multiple examples within living memory of the Israelis agreeing to Trade Land for Peace, and, of course, we see how well that is working out for them. The rulers of Rump-Palestine have proven themselves bloodthirsty and untrustworthy time and again and they have the weak hand in this poker game, so, I find it difficult to conjure-up circumstances under which the Israelis could be persuaded to repeat their past Land-for-Peace Mistakes for a third or fourth time, in order to appease some of the most vicious and untrustworthy Folk on the face of the planet. But that's just me.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

We all know what happened when Israel gave away Gaza.  Israel will not make that sort of mistake again, particularly given the danger of having an enemy west of the Jordan River in its midst.  For those who do not understand, this will explain.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWmPqY8TE0]Israel's Critical Security Needs for a Viable Peace - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## RoccoR

Kondor3,  _et al,_

I can feel the frustration.



Kondor3 said:


> Rocco... rightly or wrongly, it's my impression that history provides us with multiple examples within living memory of the Israelis agreeing to Trade Land for Peace, and, of course, we see how well that is working out for them. The rulers of Rump-Palestine have proven themselves bloodthirsty and untrustworthy time and again and they have the weak hand in this poker game, so, I find it difficult to conjure-up circumstances under which the Israelis could be persuaded to repeat their past Land-for-Peace Mistakes for a third or fourth time, in order to appease some of the most vicious and untrustworthy Folk on the face of the planet. But that's just me.


*(COMMENT)*

I agree, ---- I guess the most prominent of the offers was made by Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert (November 2008) ---- who was apparently willing to withdraw to a modified pre-1967 line, a settlement bloc south of Jerusalem, the settlement holding to the east, and a small piece of territory covering the settlement of Ariel; in exchange for some of its own land to the new Palestinian State.

I'm not sure what happened there, but it did show a willingness, on the part of Israel, to compromise.  I would be a good starting point for negotiations.

And Yes!  I agree that Palestine is a threat state.  But, if there is to be a settlement, then Israel and Palestine must mend fences.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Bumberclyde

RoccoR said:


> Kondor3,  _et al,_
> 
> I can feel the frustration.
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco... rightly or wrongly, it's my impression that history provides us with multiple examples within living memory of the Israelis agreeing to Trade Land for Peace, and, of course, we see how well that is working out for them. The rulers of Rump-Palestine have proven themselves bloodthirsty and untrustworthy time and again and they have the weak hand in this poker game, so, I find it difficult to conjure-up circumstances under which the Israelis could be persuaded to repeat their past Land-for-Peace Mistakes for a third or fourth time, in order to appease some of the most vicious and untrustworthy Folk on the face of the planet. But that's just me.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I agree, ---- I guess the most prominent of the offers was made by Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert (November 2008) ---- who was apparently willing to withdraw to a modified pre-1967 line, a settlement bloc south of Jerusalem, the settlement holding to the east, and a small piece of territory covering the settlement of Ariel; in exchange for some of its own land to the new Palestinian State.
> 
> I'm not sure what happened there, but it did show a willingness, on the part of Israel, to compromise.  I would be a good starting point for negotiations.
> 
> And Yes!  I agree that Palestine is a threat state.  But, if there is to be a settlement, then Israel and Palestine must mend fences.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


That's like saying: I ripped you off for $100, but I'll be a nice guy and give you back $20 if you promise not to complain anymore.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem*

September 3, 2013 By P. David Hornik

As Rosh Hashanah (the Jewish New Year) approaches on Thursday this week, the mood here in Israel has been oddly schizoid. On one hand, the usual rush on apples, honey, pomegranates and the like for the holiday; on the other, a rush on gas masks as Syria and Iran threaten retaliation against Israel for a possible U.S. strike on Syria.

This week there was more news on the grim side of the ledger. It turned out Israels Shin Bet (internal security service) had arrested five Hamas operatives who were planning a terror attack on a Jerusalem malltimed for, and exploiting, the holiday season (reports here and here).

The leader of the cell was 22-year-old Hamdi Romana of Ramallah in the West Bank. He recruited two other West Bankers to make the explosivesand two East Jerusalem residents with Israeli ID cards, who worked as maintenance men in the mall, to plant the bomb.

...

Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Hossfly

American_Jihad said:


> *Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem*
> 
> September 3, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> As Rosh Hashanah (the Jewish New Year) approaches on Thursday this week, the mood here in Israel has been oddly schizoid. On one hand, the usual rush on apples, honey, pomegranates and the like for the holiday; on the other, a rush on gas masks as Syria and Iran threaten retaliation against Israel for a possible U.S. strike on Syria.
> 
> This week there was more news on the grim side of the ledger. It turned out Israels Shin Bet (internal security service) had arrested five Hamas operatives who were planning a terror attack on a Jerusalem malltimed for, and exploiting, the holiday season (reports here and here).
> 
> The leader of the cell was 22-year-old Hamdi Romana of Ramallah in the West Bank. He recruited two other West Bankers to make the explosivesand two East Jerusalem residents with Israeli ID cards, who worked as maintenance men in the mall, to plant the bomb.
> 
> ...
> 
> Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem | FrontPage Magazine


Better hurry up and get these dudes processed into the prison system so they can be released with the other Freedom Fighters.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem*
> 
> September 3, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> As Rosh Hashanah (the Jewish New Year) approaches on Thursday this week, the mood here in Israel has been oddly schizoid. On one hand, the usual rush on apples, honey, pomegranates and the like for the holiday; on the other, a rush on gas masks as Syria and Iran threaten retaliation against Israel for a possible U.S. strike on Syria.
> 
> This week there was more news on the grim side of the ledger. It turned out Israels Shin Bet (internal security service) had arrested five Hamas operatives who were planning a terror attack on a Jerusalem malltimed for, and exploiting, the holiday season (reports here and here).
> 
> The leader of the cell was 22-year-old Hamdi Romana of Ramallah in the West Bank. He recruited two other West Bankers to make the explosivesand two East Jerusalem residents with Israeli ID cards, who worked as maintenance men in the mall, to plant the bomb.
> 
> ...
> 
> Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> Better hurry up and get these dudes processed into the prison system so they can be released with the other Freedom Fighters.
Click to expand...

Better yet, find that roadmap for the New Middle East:

"This announcement was a confirmation of an Anglo-American-Israeli 'military roadmap' in the Middle East. This project, which has been in the  planning stages for several years, consists in creating an arc of instability, chaos, and violence extending from Lebanon, Palestine, and Syria to Iraq, the Persian Gulf, Iran, and the borders of NATO-garrisoned Afghanistan.

"The 'New Middle East' project was introduced publicly by Washington and Tel Aviv with the expectation that Lebanon would be the pressure point for realigning the whole Middle East and thereby unleashing the forces of 'constructive chaos.' 

"This 'constructive chaos' which generates conditions of violence and warfare throughout the region would in turn be used so that the United States, Britain, and Israel could redraw the map of the Middle East in accordance with their geo-strategic needs and objectives.

"New Middle East Map

"Secretary Condoleezza Rice stated during a press conference that '[w]hat were seeing here [in regards to the destruction of Lebanon and the Israeli attacks on Lebanon], in a sense, is the growingthe birth pangs...'"

*Birth pangs of the New World Order, Hero.
Are you saluting?*


----------



## Ropey

> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem*
> 
> September 3, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> As Rosh Hashanah (the Jewish New Year) approaches on Thursday this week, the mood here in Israel has been oddly schizoid. On one hand, the usual rush on apples, honey, pomegranates and the like for the holiday; on the other, a rush on gas masks as Syria and Iran threaten retaliation against Israel for a possible U.S. strike on Syria.
> 
> This week there was more news on the grim side of the ledger. It turned out Israels Shin Bet (internal security service) had arrested five Hamas operatives who were planning a terror attack on a Jerusalem malltimed for, and exploiting, the holiday season (reports here and here).
> 
> The leader of the cell was 22-year-old Hamdi Romana of Ramallah in the West Bank. He recruited two other West Bankers to make the explosivesand two East Jerusalem residents with Israeli ID cards, who worked as maintenance men in the mall, to plant the bomb.
> 
> ...
> 
> Mass Attack Thwarted in Jerusalem | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> Better hurry up and get these dudes processed into the prison system so they can be released with the other Freedom Fighters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Better yet, find that roadmap for the New Middle East:
> 
> "This announcement was a confirmation of an Anglo-American-Israeli 'military roadmap' in the Middle East. This project, which has been in the  planning stages for several years, consists in creating an arc of instability, chaos, and violence extending from Lebanon, Palestine, and Syria to Iraq, the Persian Gulf, Iran, and the borders of NATO-garrisoned Afghanistan.
> 
> "The 'New Middle East' project was introduced publicly by Washington and Tel Aviv with the expectation that Lebanon would be the pressure point for realigning the whole Middle East and thereby unleashing the forces of 'constructive chaos.'
> 
> "This 'constructive chaos' which generates conditions of violence and warfare throughout the region would in turn be used so that the United States, Britain, and Israel could redraw the map of the Middle East in accordance with their geo-strategic needs and objectives.
> 
> "New Middle East Map
> 
> "Secretary Condoleezza Rice stated during a press conference that '[w]hat were seeing here [in regards to the destruction of Lebanon and the Israeli attacks on Lebanon], in a sense, is the growingthe birth pangs...'"
> 
> *Birth pangs of the New World Order, Hero.
> Are you saluting?*
Click to expand...

Georgie Boy is anxiously awaiting the new world Caliphate so he can prove his is the best Dhimmi  around.  He will salute his new masters whenever they pass by.   Meanwhile, since he hates the United States, he wants to have the viewers believe there is some new "world order."


----------



## Ropey

The new world order includes Jews. That's Georges issue.

He doesn't care about any Caliphate or real world order and peace. All he wants is the Jews. He's got no other platform than that. Every issue sooner or later ties to the Jews according to George.

He says not a word, not a post and not a thread condemning the tens of thousands of children murdered in Syria.


----------



## American_Jihad

*No Substitute for Victory: The Right Path to Peace for Israel*

September 13, 2013 By Andrew Harrod 






Wars end when one side wins, Middle East scholar Daniel Pipes trenchantly observed at a September 10, 2013, panel at Washington, DCs National Press Club. Pipes addressed the topic Twenty Years after Oslo:  Where Next for U.S. Policy? at an event hosted by the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights (ARC).  Amidst concurring and opposing panelists, Pipes demonstrated that peace for Israel or any other state can only come not through compromise, but rather through completion of one conflict partys strategic objective.

No dispute, as Pipes stated, existed among the panelists that the Oslo Arab-Israeli process begun 20 years ago on September 13, 1993 was a failure.  Both Commentary editor Jonathan S. Tobin and Elan Journo from ARC called the Oslo Accords a disaster, with Tobin noting that the Israeli leftist parties supporting the accords had subsequently collapsed.  Among various procedural aspects hindering in his view an Arab-Israeli settlement such as lack of a good mediator, Wilson Center scholar Aaron David Miller called the current gaps between Israeli and Palestinian positions wide and perhaps unbridgeable.

Pipes discerned the main obstacle to Palestinian peace with in the fact that neither side is defeated in this conflictso the war goes on.  Pipes cited the saying commonly heard during the Arab-Israeli conflict among others that you make peace with your enemy. Yet he qualified that in reality one makes peace with ones former enemy, the enemy who has given up. The indecisive outcome of World War I, for example, led an embittered Germany to resume hostilities 20 years.   Pipes contrasted the unconditional surrender obtained by Germanys enemies in World War II, in part precisely with the prior conflicts result in mind.

...

One way to send a signal to the Palestinians for Pipes would be a final relocation of the American embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.  The United States could likewise apply traditional definitions of refugees to the Palestinian diaspora, such that generations of descendants from those who lost their homes in 1948 would no longer count as refugees.  This would entail a significant cut in funding for UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East).

Pipes remembered that waking up on May 1, 1975, after the Communist conquest of South Vietnam was a miserable thing.  Yet conflict end demands unambiguous winners and losers, results that in the best case mirror objective moral standards.  One conflict party, Pipes concluded, must drink the bitter crucible of defeat.

No Substitute for Victory: The Right Path to Peace for Israel | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## georgephillip

Ropey said:


> The new world order includes Jews. That's Georges issue.
> 
> He doesn't care about any Caliphate or real world order and peace. All he wants is the Jews. He's got no other platform than that. Every issue sooner or later ties to the Jews according to George.
> 
> He says not a word, not a post and not a thread condemning the tens of thousands of children murdered in Syria.


How many aircraft carriers does the Caliphate possess?
I'm guessing about the same number as its cruise missiles.
How many nuclear weapons are under the control of Mecca compared to Jerusalem?
How many millions of Christian/Jewish civilians has the Caliphate maimed, murdered, raped, and displaced in the last ten years on the opposite side of the planet from Medina?
If 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation upon twice as many  Palestinians in 1948, all those crocodile tears you're shedding over Syrian children would not be necessary.


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

What does the crisis in Syria have to do with the crisis between Israel and the Arab?



georgephillip said:


> If 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation upon twice as many  Palestinians in 1948, all those crocodile tears you're shedding over Syrian children would not be necessary.


*(COMMENT)*

They are apples and oranges.

v/r
R


----------



## georgephillip

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> What does the crisis in Syria have to do with the crisis between Israel and the Arab?
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> If 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation upon twice as many  Palestinians in 1948, all those crocodile tears you're shedding over Syrian children would not be necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They are apples and oranges.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

*Jews are Oranges; Arabs are Apples.
When 650,000 Oranges inflicted an ethnocracy on 1.2 million Apples in 1948 Palestine tens of thousands of Apples fled into Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon:*

"The number of Palestine refugees varies depending on the source. For 1948-49 refugees, for example, the Israeli government suggests a number as low as 520,000 as opposed to 850,000 by their Palestinian Arab counterparts. As of January 2010, UNRWA cites 1,396,368 registered refugees in camps and 3,370,302 registered refugees not in camps.[38]
The number of UNRWA registered Palestine refugees by country or territory in January 2010 were as follows:
 Gaza Strip 1,106,195[39]
 West Bank 778,993[39]
 Lebanon 425,640[39]
*Syria 472,109[39]*
 Jordan 1,983,733[39]"

*Why should Jews distinguish between killing and displacing Syrian apples as opposed to making cider in Gaza? Israel was created precisely to guarantee the sort of crisis we see today in Syria and Lebanon and will likely see tomorrow in Tehran.

I guess it's Colonialism 101?*


----------



## Hoffstra

Israel is here to stay....but so are the Palestinians.


----------



## American_Jihad

Hoffstra said:


> Israel is here to stay....*but* so are the Palestinians.



I don't know, they could get banned...


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> What does the crisis in Syria have to do with the crisis between Israel and the Arab?
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> If 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation upon twice as many  Palestinians in 1948, all those crocodile tears you're shedding over Syrian children would not be necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They are apples and oranges.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Jews are Oranges; Arabs are Apples.
> When 650,000 Oranges inflicted an ethnocracy on 1.2 million Apples in 1948 Palestine tens of thousands of Apples fled into Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon:*
> 
> "The number of Palestine refugees varies depending on the source. For 1948-49 refugees, for example, the Israeli government suggests a number as low as 520,000 as opposed to 850,000 by their Palestinian Arab counterparts. As of January 2010, UNRWA cites 1,396,368 registered refugees in camps and 3,370,302 registered refugees not in camps.[38]
> The number of UNRWA registered Palestine refugees by country or territory in January 2010 were as follows:
> Gaza Strip 1,106,195[39]
> West Bank 778,993[39]
> Lebanon 425,640[39]
> *Syria 472,109[39]*
> Jordan 1,983,733[39]"
> 
> *Why should Jews distinguish between killing and displacing Syrian apples as opposed to making cider in Gaza? Israel was created precisely to guarantee the sort of crisis we see today in Syria and Lebanon and will likely see tomorrow in Tehran.
> 
> I guess it's Colonialism 101?*
Click to expand...

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound, Georgie Boy?  We realize that you hate the Jews, so of course that would include the Jews in Israel, but please think for a moment -- the Muslims are killing people in places where there are no Jews involved.  Do you really think the Jews are working hand in hand with the Sunnis in blowing up the Shiites and Ahmadis in Pakistan.   Are the Jews involved with the Muslim Brotherhood in going after the Christian Copts in Egypt?  Georgie Boy has his own ideas why Israel was created so maybe he can give us some more nonsense as to why Pakistan was created.  And since Georgie Boy fakes us out that he really cares about refugees which he actually uses as pawns, he should consider the millions and millions of refugees from Europe who had to move thousands of miles from their original homes after World War II and somehow they got on with their lives no matter their religion or ethnic background, many more successfully than Georgie Boy got on with his.  By the way, I think Georgie Boy, throughout the day, keeps on pinching himself to remember to post his 650,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs shtick over and over and over and over on the forums that he is probably up to thousands of times by now.  Can you imagine if Georgie Boy actually had any friends and kept repeating the same thing over and over how they would roll their eyes once he got started?  Poor Rocco, he tries so hard but Georgie Boy resists what Rocco is saying.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> What does the crisis in Syria have to do with the crisis between Israel and the Arab?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They are apples and oranges.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> *Jews are Oranges; Arabs are Apples.
> When 650,000 Oranges inflicted an ethnocracy on 1.2 million Apples in 1948 Palestine tens of thousands of Apples fled into Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon:*
> 
> "The number of Palestine refugees varies depending on the source. For 1948-49 refugees, for example, the Israeli government suggests a number as low as 520,000 as opposed to 850,000 by their Palestinian Arab counterparts. As of January 2010, UNRWA cites 1,396,368 registered refugees in camps and 3,370,302 registered refugees not in camps.[38]
> The number of UNRWA registered Palestine refugees by country or territory in January 2010 were as follows:
> Gaza Strip 1,106,195[39]
> West Bank 778,993[39]
> Lebanon 425,640[39]
> *Syria 472,109[39]*
> Jordan 1,983,733[39]"
> 
> *Why should Jews distinguish between killing and displacing Syrian apples as opposed to making cider in Gaza? Israel was created precisely to guarantee the sort of crisis we see today in Syria and Lebanon and will likely see tomorrow in Tehran.
> 
> I guess it's Colonialism 101?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you realize how ridiculous you sound, Georgie Boy?  We realize that you hate the Jews, so of course that would include the Jews in Israel, but please think for a moment -- the Muslims are killing people in places where there are no Jews involved.  Do you really think the Jews are working hand in hand with the Sunnis in blowing up the Shiites and Ahmadis in Pakistan.   Are the Jews involved with the Muslim Brotherhood in going after the Christian Copts in Egypt?  Georgie Boy has his own ideas why Israel was created so maybe he can give us some more nonsense as to why Pakistan was created.  And since Georgie Boy fakes us out that he really cares about refugees which he actually uses as pawns, he should consider the millions and millions of refugees from Europe who had to move thousands of miles from their original homes after World War II and somehow they got on with their lives no matter their religion or ethnic background, many more successfully than Georgie Boy got on with his.  By the way, I think Georgie Boy, throughout the day, keeps on pinching himself to remember to post his 650,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs shtick over and over and over and over on the forums that he is probably up to thousands of times by now.  Can you imagine if Georgie Boy actually had any friends and kept repeating the same thing over and over how they would roll their eyes once he got started?  Poor Rocco, he tries so hard but Georgie Boy resists what Rocco is saying.
Click to expand...

Muslim crimes in Sudan and Pakistan don't give Jews a pass in Palestine, Aristotle.
My government isn't paying for and providing diplomatic cover for ethnic cleansing in Africa while that is exactly what its doing for the Jews. Once again, the same imperial power that created the mess in Pakistan played the same role in birthing a little loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab oil six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. You pretend to object to Muslim terrorists taking innocent lives in the Middle East and Africa yet you donated much of your adult life to the same endeavors in Vietnam. Don't you ever feel a little bit hypocritical?


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Jews are Oranges; Arabs are Apples.
> When 650,000 Oranges inflicted an ethnocracy on 1.2 million Apples in 1948 Palestine tens of thousands of Apples fled into Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon:*
> 
> "The number of Palestine refugees varies depending on the source. For 1948-49 refugees, for example, the Israeli government suggests a number as low as 520,000 as opposed to 850,000 by their Palestinian Arab counterparts. As of January 2010, UNRWA cites 1,396,368 registered refugees in camps and 3,370,302 registered refugees not in camps.[38]
> The number of UNRWA registered Palestine refugees by country or territory in January 2010 were as follows:
> Gaza Strip 1,106,195[39]
> West Bank 778,993[39]
> Lebanon 425,640[39]
> *Syria 472,109[39]*
> Jordan 1,983,733[39]"
> 
> *Why should Jews distinguish between killing and displacing Syrian apples as opposed to making cider in Gaza? Israel was created precisely to guarantee the sort of crisis we see today in Syria and Lebanon and will likely see tomorrow in Tehran.
> 
> I guess it's Colonialism 101?*
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how ridiculous you sound, Georgie Boy?  We realize that you hate the Jews, so of course that would include the Jews in Israel, but please think for a moment -- the Muslims are killing people in places where there are no Jews involved.  Do you really think the Jews are working hand in hand with the Sunnis in blowing up the Shiites and Ahmadis in Pakistan.   Are the Jews involved with the Muslim Brotherhood in going after the Christian Copts in Egypt?  Georgie Boy has his own ideas why Israel was created so maybe he can give us some more nonsense as to why Pakistan was created.  And since Georgie Boy fakes us out that he really cares about refugees which he actually uses as pawns, he should consider the millions and millions of refugees from Europe who had to move thousands of miles from their original homes after World War II and somehow they got on with their lives no matter their religion or ethnic background, many more successfully than Georgie Boy got on with his.  By the way, I think Georgie Boy, throughout the day, keeps on pinching himself to remember to post his 650,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs shtick over and over and over and over on the forums that he is probably up to thousands of times by now.  Can you imagine if Georgie Boy actually had any friends and kept repeating the same thing over and over how they would roll their eyes once he got started?  Poor Rocco, he tries so hard but Georgie Boy resists what Rocco is saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Muslim crimes in Sudan and Pakistan don't give Jews a pass in Palestine, Aristotle.
> My government isn't paying for and providing diplomatic cover for ethnic cleansing in Africa while that is exactly what its doing for the Jews. Once again, the same imperial power that created the mess in Pakistan played the same role in birthing a little loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab oil six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. You pretend to object to Muslim terrorists taking innocent lives in the Middle East and Africa yet you donated much of your adult life to the same endeavors in Vietnam. Don't you ever feel a little bit hypocritical?
Click to expand...

*Your government*, my myopic friend, is busy bankrupting itself making sure you and your ilk are sharing the wealth. So can the BS.


----------



## georgephillip

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how ridiculous you sound, Georgie Boy?  We realize that you hate the Jews, so of course that would include the Jews in Israel, but please think for a moment -- the Muslims are killing people in places where there are no Jews involved.  Do you really think the Jews are working hand in hand with the Sunnis in blowing up the Shiites and Ahmadis in Pakistan.   Are the Jews involved with the Muslim Brotherhood in going after the Christian Copts in Egypt?  Georgie Boy has his own ideas why Israel was created so maybe he can give us some more nonsense as to why Pakistan was created.  And since Georgie Boy fakes us out that he really cares about refugees which he actually uses as pawns, he should consider the millions and millions of refugees from Europe who had to move thousands of miles from their original homes after World War II and somehow they got on with their lives no matter their religion or ethnic background, many more successfully than Georgie Boy got on with his.  By the way, I think Georgie Boy, throughout the day, keeps on pinching himself to remember to post his 650,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs shtick over and over and over and over on the forums that he is probably up to thousands of times by now.  Can you imagine if Georgie Boy actually had any friends and kept repeating the same thing over and over how they would roll their eyes once he got started?  Poor Rocco, he tries so hard but Georgie Boy resists what Rocco is saying.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim crimes in Sudan and Pakistan don't give Jews a pass in Palestine, Aristotle.
> My government isn't paying for and providing diplomatic cover for ethnic cleansing in Africa while that is exactly what its doing for the Jews. Once again, the same imperial power that created the mess in Pakistan played the same role in birthing a little loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab oil six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. You pretend to object to Muslim terrorists taking innocent lives in the Middle East and Africa yet you donated much of your adult life to the same endeavors in Vietnam. Don't you ever feel a little bit hypocritical?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Your government*, my myopic friend, is busy bankrupting itself making sure you and your ilk are sharing the wealth. So can the BS.
Click to expand...

*Our government isn't doing a very good job, is it?*

US Income Gap Soars To Widest Since "Roaring 20s" | Zero Hedge

"The last time the top 10% of the US income distribution had such a large proportion of the entire nation's income was the 1920s - a period that culminated in the Great Depression and a collapse in that exuberance. 

"As AP reports, the very wealthiest Americans earned more than 19% of the country's household income last year  their biggest share since 1928, the year before the stock market crash. 

"And the top 10% captured a record 48.2% of total earnings last year. Analysis by Emanuael Saez shows that, based on IRS data, in 2012, *the incomes of the top 1% rose nearly 20% compared with a 1% increase for the remaining 99%.* 

*Do you remember what you were doing on September 16, 1985?*

"No it's not Las Vegas or Atlantic City. It's the US financial system. The volume of transactions has boomed far beyond anything needed to support the economy. Borrowing-politely called leverage-is getting out of hand. And futures enable people to play the market without owning a share of stock. The result: the system is tilting from investment to speculation."
BUSINESS WEEK, September 16, 1985 as quoted in _The ABCs of the Economic Crisis: What  Working People Need to Know_ Magdoff and Yates, 2009 P.75

*Our country has never been richer.
Our government chooses to borrow from the richest 1% instead of taxing them.
That's OUR problem, and it isn't BS.*


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim crimes in Sudan and Pakistan don't give Jews a pass in Palestine, Aristotle.
> My government isn't paying for and providing diplomatic cover for ethnic cleansing in Africa while that is exactly what its doing for the Jews. Once again, the same imperial power that created the mess in Pakistan played the same role in birthing a little loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab oil six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. You pretend to object to Muslim terrorists taking innocent lives in the Middle East and Africa yet you donated much of your adult life to the same endeavors in Vietnam. Don't you ever feel a little bit hypocritical?
> 
> 
> 
> *Your government*, my myopic friend, is busy bankrupting itself making sure you and your ilk are sharing the wealth. So can the BS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Our government isn't doing a very good job, is it?*
> 
> US Income Gap Soars To Widest Since "Roaring 20s" | Zero Hedge
> 
> "The last time the top 10% of the US income distribution had such a large proportion of the entire nation's income was the 1920s - a period that culminated in the Great Depression and a collapse in that exuberance.
> 
> "As AP reports, the very wealthiest Americans earned more than 19% of the country's household income last year  their biggest share since 1928, the year before the stock market crash.
> 
> "And the top 10% captured a record 48.2% of total earnings last year. Analysis by Emanuael Saez shows that, based on IRS data, in 2012, *the incomes of the top 1% rose nearly 20% compared with a 1% increase for the remaining 99%.*
> 
> *Do you remember what you were doing on September 16, 1985?*
> 
> "No it's not Las Vegas or Atlantic City. It's the US financial system. The volume of transactions has boomed far beyond anything needed to support the economy. Borrowing-politely called leverage-is getting out of hand. And futures enable people to play the market without owning a share of stock. The result: the system is tilting from investment to speculation."
> BUSINESS WEEK, September 16, 1985 as quoted in _The ABCs of the Economic Crisis: What  Working People Need to Know_ Magdoff and Yates, 2009 P.75
> 
> *Our country has never been richer.
> Our government chooses to borrow from the richest 1% instead of taxing them.
> That's OUR problem, and it isn't BS.*
Click to expand...

Sep 16, 1985. Yep! I was working at the USPS General Facility as an LSM Operator. Got a big pay raise in October and was able to make a down payment on a Bugatti. Still got that sucker. Uncle Sugar sho am sweet!


----------



## Hossfly

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim crimes in Sudan and Pakistan don't give Jews a pass in Palestine, Aristotle.
> My government isn't paying for and providing diplomatic cover for ethnic cleansing in Africa while that is exactly what its doing for the Jews. Once again, the same imperial power that created the mess in Pakistan played the same role in birthing a little loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab oil six years after the Royal Navy switched from coal to oil to power its fleets. You pretend to object to Muslim terrorists taking innocent lives in the Middle East and Africa yet you donated much of your adult life to the same endeavors in Vietnam. Don't you ever feel a little bit hypocritical?
> 
> 
> 
> *Your government*, my myopic friend, is busy bankrupting itself making sure you and your ilk are sharing the wealth. So can the BS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Our government isn't doing a very good job, is it?*
> 
> US Income Gap Soars To Widest Since "Roaring 20s" | Zero Hedge
> 
> "The last time the top 10% of the US income distribution had such a large proportion of the entire nation's income was the 1920s - a period that culminated in the Great Depression and a collapse in that exuberance.
> 
> "As AP reports, the very wealthiest Americans earned more than 19% of the country's household income last year  their biggest share since 1928, the year before the stock market crash.
> 
> "And the top 10% captured a record 48.2% of total earnings last year. Analysis by Emanuael Saez shows that, based on IRS data, in 2012, *the incomes of the top 1% rose nearly 20% compared with a 1% increase for the remaining 99%.*
> 
> *Do you remember what you were doing on September 16, 1985?*
> 
> "No it's not Las Vegas or Atlantic City. It's the US financial system. The volume of transactions has boomed far beyond anything needed to support the economy. Borrowing-politely called leverage-is getting out of hand. And futures enable people to play the market without owning a share of stock. The result: the system is tilting from investment to speculation."
> BUSINESS WEEK, September 16, 1985 as quoted in _The ABCs of the Economic Crisis: What  Working People Need to Know_ Magdoff and Yates, 2009 P.75
> 
> *Our country has never been richer.
> Our government chooses to borrow from the richest 1% instead of taxing them.
> That's OUR problem, and it isn't BS.*
Click to expand...

How about giving Russia or the Ukraine a try, Georgie Boy?  You might feel very comfortable there.  First check if they have subsidized apartments available.  Meanwhile, of course, no matter how this country is doing at the moment, millions and millions of people would be happy to take Georgie boy's place here.  Georgie Boy is so busy blaming America for something or other that he overlooks the fact that people all around the world are not doing so well, even in places like Europe.  He should at least be happy that there are soup kitchens here for people like him.  Many in Africa and other locations never get a full belly.  By the way, Georgie Boy, it is cooling off in Los Angeles so why not get a little fresh air and gives the forums a rest for a while?  You can show your hate for America later on.


----------



## holston

Is Israel A Strategic Liability For The United States? - National Security Experts



> By Michael F. Scheuer
> 
> Adjunct Professor of Security Studies, Georgetown University
> 
> And how does our former anti-Soviet bulwark help us in the post-Cold War era? Reportedly it sells the technology we supply to Russia, China, and other of America's great "friends." It suborns U.S. citizens to commit espionage against their country on Israel's behalf. It corrupts U.S. domestic politics and elections via AIPAC and other organizations. It deliberately alienates and provokes the growing American Muslim community by inviting prominent Jewish-Americans -- including the mayor of New York -- to come to Israel and cheer on its invasion of Gaza and the Muslim casualties it has produced. And how does America reward this sterling ally-like behavior? The president-elect makes his chief-of- staff a U.S. citizen who abandoned the United States during the 1991 Iraq war to serve with the IDF. Seems to me that if America had a few more allies like Israel we would be well and truly sunk.
> 
> Parenthetically, I am delighted that I will not be the CIA officer who has to brief soon-to-be-president Obama every morning with an IDF veteran listening to America's most important secret data. After such an expeirience, how would you ever pass the polygraph?



Cut US aid to Israel - Israel Opinion, Ynetnews


> First, since 1976, Israel has been the largest annual recipient of US foreign assistance. In the past 55 years, Israel has received more than $84 billion in grants alone. Annual American aid to Israel per capita is more than $340, which is by far the highest in the world. Average global aid per capita is only $22! This comparison becomes all the more glaring, given that according to various indices Israel is ranked 27th or 37th on the "rich scale."



Israel: a Huge Liability on American Foreign Policy Balance Sheet ? Indyk-AIPAC Secret Theft From American Industry Reaches $100 Billion | Global Research


> The FBI soon discovered *AIPAC had illegally obtained a secret copy of the business secrets compiled by ITC, giving AIPAC invaluable ammunition to target those lobbying against the deal.*
> 
> When publicly called out to explain the data theft on National Public Radio, Indyk was incapable of explaining how his research division obtained American business secretsand instead answered a philosophical question about free trade that had not been asked.(Listen here) Thanks to recently declassified FBI files,* it is known that Israeli Trade Minister Dan Halpern surreptitiously obtained and passed the stolen secrets to AIPAC, allowing the Israel lobby to end-runstaunch opposition to the near-unilateral concessions.* Complaints about Israeli theft of U.S. intellectual property, including pharmaceutical patents to export copy-cats into the U.S. market, have been ongoing.
> 
> Since the year of the theft, the formerly balanced U.S.-Israeli trading relationship has turned into a chronic yearly deficit for America.*  From 1985 through May of 2013 (the latest data available), the deficit has reached a cumulative $100 billion.  The recently departed U.S. Trade Ambassador refused to provide compensation to victimized industries.  Indyk is once again in a position to throw America under the bus.* Concerned observers must begin wonder how much it will cost.



Israel is becoming a liability for the United States ? War in Context



> As if to echo and underline Dagans message, Anthony Cordesman, one of the most respected non-partisan national security experts in Washington writes:
> 
> [T]he depth of Americas moral commitment [to Israel] does not justify or excuse actions by an Israeli government that unnecessarily make Israel a strategic liability when it should remain an asset. It does not mean that the United States should extend support to an Israeli government when that government fails to credibly pursue peace with its neighbors.





> It is time Israel realized that it has obligations to the United States, as well as the United States to Israel, and that it become far more careful about the extent to which it test the limits of U.S. patience and exploits the support of American Jews.






> And then comes word from the Canadian writer, Margaret Atwood, whose impartial observations as a first-time visitor to the Jewish state cut to the core when she says:
> 
> * [T]he concept of Israel as a humane and democratic state is in serious trouble. *Once a country starts refusing entry to the likes of Noam Chomsky, shutting down the rights of its citizens to use words like Nakba, and labelling as anti-Israel anyone who tries to tell them what they need to know, a police-state clampdown looms. Will it be a betrayal of age-old humane Jewish traditions and the rule of just law, or a turn towards reconciliation and a truly open society?





> *Israelis never tire of declaring with great solemnity that they survive in a dangerous neighborhood  invariably the observation is used as a justification for some form of brutality. *Yet behind the faux boldness of this embattled nation is the comforting awareness that little Israel enjoys the protection of its big American friend. But any friendship can eventually be strained beyond repair.
> 
> As Israel becomes more and more isolated, that isolation may reinforce the delusions of those convinced that the rest of the world is dangerous yet for others it will make the rest of the world increasingly appealing.* Thus will arise the demographic threat that no racist scheme can resolve: the threat that life in a Jewish state is simply no longer appealing to enough Jews.*


----------



## holston

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uME4L1zF4bA]'Israel, a US liability in the Middle East' - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## American_Jihad

*Obamas Shift from AIPAC to J Street*

September 26, 2013 By Joseph Puder






J Street, the self-described pro-Israel and pro-peace organization, has announced on its website that U.S. Vice President Joe Biden will be its keynote speaker at its annual conference scheduled to commence on September 28, 2013. Hitherto, President Obama has been unwilling to authorize his high-ranking officials to participate in the J Street conferences. However, Valerie Jarrett, a Chicago buddy of Barack Obama, who now serves as Senior Advisor to Obama and as Assistant to the president for Public Engagement and Intergovernmental Affairs, was a major presenter at J Streets 2012 conference. The significance of Bidens acceptance of the invitation is that it may signal an Obama administration shift from supporting the traditional Jewish mainstream positions of AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) on Israel to that of the left-leaning, and openly Democratic Party stalwart J Street.

...

It is understandable why Obama supports J Street. The latter group fully supports his vision of an Israeli-Palestinian peace. What is hard to understand is Bidens move to please J Street. Biden has been the most hawkish pro-Israel member of Obamas team, and a frequent guest of AIPAC. The Louis Susman factor is one reason. Susman, one of Obamas chief campaign-contribution bundlers, has also been a close friend of Biden. J Street recruited Susman to be a member of their board and used his influence to bring Biden to the J Street conference. In considering a run for the U.S. Presidency, Biden needs people like Susman. But, it could also signal the Obama administration open shift from supporting the traditional Jewish mainstream positions of AIPAC on Israel to that of J Street.

Obama?s Shift from AIPAC to J Street | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Netanyahu at UN: Stop Iran - or We Will*​
October 2, 2013 By P. David Hornik






...

So Netanyahu reviewed some hard facts about Rouhani that reality-oriented commentators have been noting for a few months now. In the past he was a sinister terror chief, head of Irans National Security Council in the years of the Buenos Aires bombing and the Khobar Towers bombing, which killed 85 mostly Jewish civilians and 19 American servicemen, respectively.

Hes also a seasoned con man, proud of having duped the West in the past on Irans nuclear program. While we were talking to the Europeans in Tehran, we were installing equipment in Isfahan, Rouhani wrote in 2011 about his 2003-2005 stint as Irans chief nuclear negotiatorIsfahan, as Netanyahu clarified, being the facility where Iran turns uranium ore into uranium for the bombs it will soon be producing en masse unless something is done about it.

...

If, then, all else fails, will Israel indeed take matters in its own hands? Given the depth of Netanyahus identification with Jewish history and the power of his sense of responsibility, the working assumption should be that it will.

Netanyahu at UN: Stop Iran ?- or We Will | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Lessons from the Yom Kippur War*

October 7, 2013 By Daniel Greenfield






Forty years ago, Israel experienced the most devastating war in its modern history. Israel not only suffered its worst casualties during the Yom Kippur War, but actually came close to being destroyed with Defense Minister Moshe Dayan warning that The Third Temple is falling.

To understand the lessons of the Yom Kippur War, it is important to understand the three key elements that led to it. These are Muslim deceptiveness, American diplomatic pressure and Israeli complacency.

...

Netanyahu is aware of the stakes, but is hamstrung by an American government still obsessed with appeasing Muslims to stabilize the Middle East and by an Israeli military and intelligence establishment that resembles the incestuous Old Boy Network in 1973, but is more heavily politicized because its members are even more eager to run for public office.

The ultimate lesson of the Yom Kippur War comes from Zvika Greengold who held out against the 51st Tank Brigade of the Syrian Army in only one tank.

One thing that stayed with me after this war was the feeling of being alone, he said later, not in a room, but in a war, with one tank.

That is Israel; fighting alone against impossible odds. It forgets that at its own peril.

Lessons from the Yom Kippur War | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Roudy

American_Jihad said:


> *Netanyahu at UN: Stop Iran &#8212;- or We Will*​
> October 2, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So Netanyahu reviewed some hard facts about Rouhani that reality-oriented commentators have been noting for a few months now. In the past he was a sinister terror chief, head of Iran&#8217;s National Security Council in the years of the Buenos Aires bombing and the Khobar Towers bombing, which killed 85 mostly Jewish civilians and 19 American servicemen, respectively.
> 
> He&#8217;s also a seasoned con man, proud of having duped the West in the past on Iran&#8217;s nuclear program. &#8220;While we were talking to the Europeans in Tehran, we were installing equipment in Isfahan,&#8221; Rouhani wrote in 2011 about his 2003-2005 stint as Iran&#8217;s chief nuclear negotiator&#8212;Isfahan, as Netanyahu clarified, being the facility where Iran turns uranium ore into uranium for the bombs it will soon be producing en masse unless something is done about it.
> 
> ...
> 
> If, then, all else fails, will Israel indeed take matters in its own hands? Given the depth of Netanyahu&#8217;s identification with Jewish history and the power of his sense of responsibility, the working assumption should be that it will.
> 
> Netanyahu at UN: Stop Iran ?- or We Will | FrontPage Magazine


The descendants of the Maccabees have risen and are flourishing and depending themselves beautifully. Never again means never again. 
One of my favorite pics:


----------



## georgephillip

American_Jihad said:


> *Lessons from the Yom Kippur War*
> 
> October 7, 2013 By Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forty years ago, Israel experienced the most devastating war in its modern history. Israel not only suffered its worst casualties during the Yom Kippur War, but actually came close to being destroyed with Defense Minister Moshe Dayan warning that The Third Temple is falling.
> 
> To understand the lessons of the Yom Kippur War, it is important to understand the three key elements that led to it. These are Muslim deceptiveness, American diplomatic pressure and Israeli complacency.
> 
> ...
> 
> Netanyahu is aware of the stakes, but is hamstrung by an American government still obsessed with appeasing Muslims to stabilize the Middle East and by an Israeli military and intelligence establishment that resembles the incestuous Old Boy Network in 1973, but is more heavily politicized because its members are even more eager to run for public office.
> 
> The ultimate lesson of the Yom Kippur War comes from Zvika Greengold who held out against the 51st Tank Brigade of the Syrian Army in only one tank.
> 
> One thing that stayed with me after this war was the feeling of being alone, he said later, not in a room, but in a war, with one tank.
> 
> That is Israel; fighting alone against impossible odds. It forgets that at its own peril.
> 
> Lessons from the Yom Kippur War | FrontPage Magazine


The ultimate lesson of the Yom Kippur War was Israel's rejection of the Gunnar Jarring/Anwar Sadat peace proposal of 1971 which offered a full peace treaty on the Green Line but which Israel's Labor party rejected, preferring to expand territorial gains (primarily in the Sinai) that had been set in motion by Israel's War of Aggression in 1967.

Two years later after nearly resorting to its Third Temple/Samson Complex nuclear option, Israel accepted "peace" on largely the same terms Sadat proposed two years before the '73 war.


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> "..._Israel's War of Aggression in 1967_..."



Horseshit.

Arab armies had massed for invasion on all sides of Israel.

Israel merely hit them before they could hit Israel.

They took the Golan from you.

They took the West Bank from you.

And, most importantly, they took Jerusalem from you.

They kicked your nasty Arab asses on all fronts despite tremendous odds in your favor.

Much to your everlasting shame...

Much to the merriment and delight and contemptuous laughter of much of the rest of the world.


Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel's War of Aggression in 1967_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horseshit.
> 
> Arab armies had massed for invasion on all sides of Israel.
> 
> Israel merely hit them before they could hit Israel.
> 
> They took the Golan from you.
> 
> They took the West Bank from you.
> 
> And, most importantly, they took Jerusalem from you.
> 
> They kicked your nasty Arab asses on all fronts despite tremendous odds in your favor.
> 
> Much to your everlasting shame...
> 
> Much to the merriment and delight and contemptuous laughter of much of the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


"In 1967, Israel conquered still more land. Following the Six Day War, in which Israeli forces launched a highly successful surprise attack on Egypt, Israel occupied the final 22% of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948  the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Since, according to international law it is inadmissible to acquire territory by war, these are occupied territories and do not belong to Israel. It also occupied parts of Egypt (since returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation).

"Also during the Six Day War, Israel attacked a US Navy ship, the USS Liberty, killing and injuring over 200 American servicemen. President Lyndon Johnson recalled rescue flights, saying that he did not want to 'embarrass an ally.' (In 2004 a high-level commission chaired by Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, found this attack to be '*an act of war against the United States,*' a fact few news media have reported.)"

A Synopsis of the Israel/Palestine Conflict


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> "..."


The Israelis did, indeed, conquer much land, as a result of the 1967 War.

Maybe you (Arab-Muslims) should not have amassed armies on all sides of Israel and provoked it into preemptive action?

Part of the reason why the world laughs at you is the stupid decisions you make.

Part of the reason why the world laughs at you is your military incompetency.

Part of the reason why the world laughs at you is your whining when things don't go your way.

Part of the reason why the world laughs at you is your amateur-hour re-writings and spin-doctorings of history.

You lost whatever credibility you had (_with much of the rest of the world_) on the battlefields of 1967.

Vae victus.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israels European Challenge*

October 25, 2013 By Caroline Glick 

Last month, the European Union pushed European- Israeli relations to a new low.

In mid-September, the IDF enforced a High Court of Justice order to destroy 250 structures built illegally by Palestinian squatters in the Jordan Valley.

The High Court acted in accordance with the agreements signed between the Palestinians and Israel. Those agreements gave Israel sole control over planning and zoning in the Jordan Valley and throughout the area of Judea and Samaria defined as Area C.

Five days after the IDF destroyed the illegal structures, Palestinian activists arrived at the site with tents. Their intention was to act in contempt of the law and of the agreements the PLO signed with Israel, and to resettle the site.

The Palestinians did not come alone. They were accompanied by European diplomats. The diplomats were there to provide diplomatic cover to the Palestinians as they broke the law and breached the agreements the PLO signed with the Israeli government.

...

Moreover, we need to recognize that like our European friends, we have given the benefit of the doubt to our continental adversaries, believing their empty claims of commitment to the peace process and international law. As a consequence, since the outset of the peace process with the PLO 20 years ago, most of the steps we have taken to demonstrate our good faith have strengthened those Europeans who wish us ill at the expense of those who wish us well.

Like our European friends, we need to stop giving a pass to those who distort the very meaning of international law while making empty proclamations of support for the cause of peace. Only be exposing the truth behind the lies will we strengthen our European friends and so increase the possibility that our relations with Europe may improve one day.

Israel?s European Challenge | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Hollie

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel's War of Aggression in 1967_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horseshit.
> 
> Arab armies had massed for invasion on all sides of Israel.
> 
> Israel merely hit them before they could hit Israel.
> 
> They took the Golan from you.
> 
> They took the West Bank from you.
> 
> And, most importantly, they took Jerusalem from you.
> 
> They kicked your nasty Arab asses on all fronts despite tremendous odds in your favor.
> 
> Much to your everlasting shame...
> 
> Much to the merriment and delight and contemptuous laughter of much of the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Yep - Israel established Armistice lines, (borders) that were established after Israel had won multiple offensive wars started by Arabs. The borders that are an armistice boundary. The borders that in any other conflict in the world would be subject to the victor's discretion.

However, the Crusading Arabs have continually wanted _Do-Overs_ as their wars of aggression have been turned into humiliating defeats.


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel's War of Aggression in 1967_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horseshit.
> 
> Arab armies had massed for invasion on all sides of Israel.
> 
> Israel merely hit them before they could hit Israel.
> 
> They took the Golan from you.
> 
> They took the West Bank from you.
> 
> And, most importantly, they took Jerusalem from you.
> 
> They kicked your nasty Arab asses on all fronts despite tremendous odds in your favor.
> 
> Much to your everlasting shame...
> 
> Much to the merriment and delight and contemptuous laughter of much of the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

*Pig squeals from the heartland of the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World.
In spite of Israel's steady stream of provocations against its neighbors and a warning from its settler-colonialist benefactor, Jews struck first in '67 only this time they had better results than 1956.*

"Although the U.S. warned against firing the first shot, the Israelis decided to read the lack of a firm no-go as a green light for war..."

"As war approached, Israel placed 70,000 meninfantry and paratroopsnear the Egyptian border. They had some 700 tanks, mainly well-armored British Centurions; the Israeli air force (IAF), commanded by Gen. Mordechai Hod, consisted of 207 combat airplanes, a motley mix of French Mirages, Mystères, Ouragans, and Vautours.

"For its possible invasion of Jordan, Israel deployed 40,000 troops organized into eight brigades, about 200 tanks, most of them modified World War IIvintage 'Super' Shermans sporting 75mm or 105mm guns, and ultimately more than 200 fighter aircraft.

"Although the U.S. warned against firing the first shot, the Israelis decided to read the lack of a firm no-go as a green light for war on the Golan Heights, Israel had a much smaller force, consisting only of a couple brigades. 

"By June 9, however, when Israel decided to invade Syria as well, it would strike with around 150 aircraft, 250 tanks, and 20,000 troops."

The Six Day War Sparked Forty Years of Strife

*Those not hopelessly addicted to swallowing every load of kosher horse shit doled out by Israel will remember what happened the day before the heroic Jews invaded Syria AFTER the Syrians had given up the struggle:*

"On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died."

*Vae vicious, Punks?*

USS Liberty Memorial


----------



## toastman

Ah, when you have just been embarresed by your own argument about the 6 day war and your back is to the wall, have no fear - all you need to do in bring up the USS Liberty and yell " Look, look, Israel is evil, they killed Americans !"

Very sad George that you would exploit the USS Liberty incident for your own agenda to vilify Israel.


----------



## Kondor3

Spin-doctor away, Georgie... it's bullshit and everyone knows it. Vae victus (a.k.a. ESAD).


----------



## Hollie

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel's War of Aggression in 1967_..."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horseshit.
> 
> Arab armies had massed for invasion on all sides of Israel.
> 
> Israel merely hit them before they could hit Israel.
> 
> They took the Golan from you.
> 
> They took the West Bank from you.
> 
> And, most importantly, they took Jerusalem from you.
> 
> They kicked your nasty Arab asses on all fronts despite tremendous odds in your favor.
> 
> Much to your everlasting shame...
> 
> Much to the merriment and delight and contemptuous laughter of much of the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Pig squeals from the heartland of the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World.
> In spite of Israel's steady stream of provocations against its neighbors and a warning from its settler-colonialist benefactor, Jews struck first in '67 only this time they had better results than 1956.*
> 
> "Although the U.S. warned against firing the first shot, the Israelis decided to read the lack of a firm no-go as a green light for war..."
> 
> "As war approached, Israel placed 70,000 meninfantry and paratroopsnear the Egyptian border. They had some 700 tanks, mainly well-armored British Centurions; the Israeli air force (IAF), commanded by Gen. Mordechai Hod, consisted of 207 combat airplanes, a motley mix of French Mirages, Mystères, Ouragans, and Vautours.
> 
> "For its possible invasion of Jordan, Israel deployed 40,000 troops organized into eight brigades, about 200 tanks, most of them modified World War IIvintage 'Super' Shermans sporting 75mm or 105mm guns, and ultimately more than 200 fighter aircraft.
> 
> "Although the U.S. warned against firing the first shot, the Israelis decided to read the lack of a firm no-go as a green light for war on the Golan Heights, Israel had a much smaller force, consisting only of a couple brigades.
> 
> "By June 9, however, when Israel decided to invade Syria as well, it would strike with around 150 aircraft, 250 tanks, and 20,000 troops."
> 
> The Six Day War Sparked Forty Years of Strife
> 
> *Those not hopelessly addicted to swallowing every load of kosher horse shit doled out by Israel will remember what happened the day before the heroic Jews invaded Syria AFTER the Syrians had given up the struggle:*
> 
> "On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died."
> 
> *Vae vicious, Punks?*
> 
> USS Liberty Memorial
Click to expand...


Because Israels intelligence agencies and other networks were as strong as they had to be, as far as gathering and properly interpreting Arab intentions, Israel had some lead time before the hostile arab armies had time to launch an attack on them. Israel was, and still is, politically between a rock and a hard place.

For many reasons, arab armies have underestimated Israeli resolve, fighting will and tenacity in the face of hateful islamist ideology. This, as her arab neighbors found out to their embarrassment, is perhaps one of her greatest hidden strengths.


----------



## georgephillip

Hollie said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel. But the question is, why George???
> 
> 
> 
> My reply would start with 650,000 Jews inflicting their nation upon twice as many Arabs in 1948; although, I suspect we'll never find any common ground there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Im sure you were hoping that inflicting added some melodrama to your comment.
> 
> What a shame that you have no issue with islamist ideology being inflicted across the Middle East such that competing religions are all but purged from that part of the world.
> 
> I mean, any fool who pays the slightest bit of attention to geopolitics in the islamist Middle East can understand that the plight of the Palestinian beggars and squatters has _nothing_ to do with Arab intransigence, an utter inability to compromise and make peace with the out-group, or with muhammuds (swish) dogma of hatred for Jews.
Click to expand...

What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin to European migrants in 1948? Intransigence is a label best applied to western imperialists coercing the UN into inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil. Any attempt to justify such a foolish decision relies more on bigotry than brains.


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

What nonsense!



georgephillip said:


> What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin to European migrants in 1948? Intransigence is a label best applied to western imperialists coercing the UN into inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil. Any attempt to justify such a foolish decision relies more on bigotry than brains.


*(COMMENT)*

What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin?
None!  There was no "Filastin."  The Arabs were not asked to cede any territory under their sovereignty.​
inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil?
Israel is anywhere but in the "Heart of Arab Oil"_ (especially in 1947)_.​Come on, what are you trying to imply here?  That Israel was created to gain oil concessions!  Nonsense, oil in that part of the Mediterranean wasn't even envisioned then.  Even today, the Levant Basin findings are relatively new and undeveloped.  Tamar Gas Field was not discovered until 2009; with the Karish discovery early this year.  These were not discoveries even dreamed of in 1947; and totally outside the US licenses and exploration zones of the Gulf State Oil tracks of the 1930's.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> What nonsense!
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin to European migrants in 1948? Intransigence is a label best applied to western imperialists coercing the UN into inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil. Any attempt to justify such a foolish decision relies more on bigotry than brains.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin?
> None!  There was no "Filastin."  The Arabs were not asked to cede any territory under their sovereignty.​
> inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil?
> Israel is anywhere but in the "Heart of Arab Oil"_ (especially in 1947)_.​Come on, what are you trying to imply here?  That Israel was created to gain oil concessions!  Nonsense, oil in that part of the Mediterranean wasn't even envisioned then.  Even today, the Levant Basin findings are relatively new and undeveloped.  Tamar Gas Field was not discovered until 2009; with the Karish discovery early this year.  These were not discoveries even dreamed of in 1947; and totally outside the US licenses and exploration zones of the Gulf State Oil tracks of the 1930's.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Thanks, Rocco. You responded to the fallacious claims made by george before I could. 

Aside from the silly Its about the oil nonsense is georges lack of knowledge and weird notions of Filastin.  Of historical (and anthropological note), is that the Philistines (the "Sea Peoples") never settled Judea, they settled only the southwestern coast; nor were they of the Semetic tribes from which the Jews, Arabs, Hittites etc. descend. They were from Crete and Macednonia and the Aegean.

Furthermore, they never were a "nation." Like their Aegean relatives, they formed "city-states"--the key centers being what is now Ashdod, Ashkelon, and Gaza.

Thus, the modern Palestinians are not descended from the Philistines--but are brethren to the Jews.

Philistia never existed as a nation, nor did the ancient city-states contain more than a small coastal margin of what is now modern day Israel and the Gaza strip.


----------



## georgephillip

toastman said:


> George, did you bother to read the comments below the crappy article you just posted???
> 
> Most of the comments say the same thing, calling the article stupid, biased, poorly written and anti - Israel
> 
> This one is my favorite:
> 
> *This article, however, is the most biased piece of trash on earth. So lets say a guy comes near you with a knife, in a stance of aggression, are you going to stand and wait, or are you going to pull out your handgun and put a round through him? *


*I suppose it would depend on whether or not the gunman had recently tried to steal the Suez Canal, would it not?*

"Tensions had been simmering for years between Israel and its neighbors. There was a dispute about how to share the waters of the Jordan River. Palestinian guerrillas had been attacking Israel from bases in Jordan and Syria, attracting powerful Israeli reprisal raids. Controversially, Israel was constructing a nuclear power plant.

"While there were many points of contention, it was a single skirmish that presaged war. On April 7, 1967, the IAF shot down six Syrian MiGs after Syrian artillery had shelled two Israeli tractors that had entered a demilitarized zone. 

"Adding insult to injury, the elated Israeli pilots flew victory circless over the skies of Damascus, the Syrian capital.

"The Soviets told the Egyptians in May 1967 that Israel was massing troops on the Syrian frontier. Although United Nations observers discovered no buildup, the Syriansfatally, it turned outasked the Egyptians to make some demonstration to relieve the pressure on them. 

"Seizing this chance to play the 'protector' of the Arabs, Nasser mobilized his army, placed it into defensive deployment in the Sinai, and asked the peacekeeping UN Emergency Force to withdraw. 

"But what came next ensured war: After Field Marshal Amer sent troops to take control of Sharm el-Sheikh, Nasser closed the Tiran Straits on the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping on May 21."

The Six Day War Sparked Forty Years of Strife


----------



## MHunterB

The assorted memebrs of the Arab League cabal had already been at war with Israel even before '48, as they had already made their plans to beggar and eject their Jewish citizenry *before* any 'Palestinians' were purportedly pushed out by the Israelis.

The nonsense in Georgie's posts is completely ridiculous.

Most particularly, his oh-so-FAKE 'outrage' over the 'deliberate murder' of US military personnel is heinously hypocritical, coming as it does after endless invective directed against the selfsame US military personnel.   

L'il Georgieboy's concern for those men is only in USING their deaths as a TOOL to advance his bigoted agenda.....  His love and concern for the 'poor oppressed Palestinians' is only another TOOL :  nothing matters to Georgieboy but his agenda of promoting the has-been ideology of communism.


----------



## georgephillip

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> What nonsense!
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin to European migrants in 1948? Intransigence is a label best applied to western imperialists coercing the UN into inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil. Any attempt to justify such a foolish decision relies more on bigotry than brains.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin?
> None!  There was no "Filastin."  The Arabs were not asked to cede any territory under their sovereignty.​
> inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil?
> Israel is anywhere but in the "Heart of Arab Oil"_ (especially in 1947)_.​Come on, what are you trying to imply here?  That Israel was created to gain oil concessions!  Nonsense, oil in that part of the Mediterranean wasn't even envisioned then.  Even today, the Levant Basin findings are relatively new and undeveloped.  Tamar Gas Field was not discovered until 2009; with the Karish discovery early this year.  These were not discoveries even dreamed of in 1947; and totally outside the US licenses and exploration zones of the Gulf State Oil tracks of the 1930's.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*Almost exactly a century before the discovery of the Tamar Gas Field the Royal Navy made the decision to switch from coal to oil to power its imperial fleets. Less than a decade after that decision, some of the most blatant anti-Semites in Europe decided, out of the pure goodness of their natural gas loving hearts, I'm sure, to promote a Jewish homeland in Palestine (Filastin to the majority of its inhabitants at that time)*

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment *in Palestine* of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities *in Palestine*, 

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Your settler colonialist soul-mate, Sir Ronald Storrs, had no doubts about what that meant in terms of controlling the flows of Arab oil:*

"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a 'Jewish homeland' in Palestine meant for the British Empire: 'It will form for England,' he said, 'a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.'&#8221;

Winston Churchill, another racist, wrote of the material gain England would receive from inflicting 2-3 million Jews on Palestine under the protection of the Crown. I'm pretty sure Winnie mentioned something about the Suez Canal.

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules - FPIF

*By what stretch of the term "sovereignty" are you imagining the Arabs were not being forced to cede land and water resources in Filastin to belligerent, racist migrants from Europe, many of whom made no attempt to conceal their nonsensical intention to rule over all the land between the River and the sea?

Possibly the same racist interpretation that produced the invasions and occupations of Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq over the last sixty five years, resulting in the murder, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent civilians for exactly the same PROFIT MOTIVE that inspired the Jews of Europe to "return" to their Promised Land?*


----------



## MHunterB

Oh, Georgie - why won't you admit the truth?  Which is that you don't particularly care about how wretched the Palestinian plight:  you just USE it as an excuse to spew Jew-hatred, and hatred of 'capitalism' and hatred of whatever.......

Because of all the snide and vile 'asides' about 'kosher bullshit' and other offensive language which you never bother to remove from your verbiage, it's very very obvious.

Ultimately your 'complaint' is not what you claim Israel may do or 'want' - but simply the fact that an Israel of any size exists.  Your hate speech of calling my people 'belligerent racist migrants from Europe' is just one more example of your penchant for placing rhetoric before accuracy.   Ashkenazi Jews are not totally unrelated to other Jews or to people from the Levant as you pretend.  And -in case you hadn't noticed - over 50% of Jewish Israelis are NOT Ashkenazi.


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> Spin-doctor away, Georgie... it's bullshit and everyone knows it. Vae victus (a.k.a. ESAD).


*Only those who swallow the Jew-first load believe Israel is anything but a proxy for western arms and oil interests, Kondie. How else to explain the heroic Jews' service to their colonial masters in 1956?*

"Angery British and French politicians joined forces with Israel, a long time enemy of Egypt, in an attack against Nasser. The Israeli army marched toward the canal on October 29, 1956. Britain and France reinforced the Israelis, and the joint effort defeated the Egyptian army quickly. Within ten days, British and French forces had completely occupied the Suez region. 

"Egypt responded by sinking 40 ships in the canal, blocking all passage. 

"The United Nations sought to resolve the conflict and pressured the two European powers to back down. The rest of the world shunned Britain and France for their actions in the crisis..."

*Backing down...the terminal fate of all racist, colonial pimps and their scary kosher war-whores.*

The Suez Crisis of 1956


----------



## MHunterB

Um, since the move to a more modern and efficient fuel (even Civ 4 players know this!) was inevitable and a century BEFORE the Tamar field was discovered, it's apodictic that such events bear no connection to that discovery.

Unless, of course, one believes like Georgie that the Brits really had discovered time travel......


----------



## MHunterB

I see that when I call you on your racist spew, Georgie - you just add more of the same.  Thanks for demonstrating that my assessment of you was accurate.


----------



## georgephillip

Hollie said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> What nonsense!
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin to European migrants in 1948? Intransigence is a label best applied to western imperialists coercing the UN into inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil. Any attempt to justify such a foolish decision relies more on bigotry than brains.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What level of "compromise" is required for Arabs to cede 55% of Filastin?
> None!  There was no "Filastin."  The Arabs were not asked to cede any territory under their sovereignty.​
> inflicting a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil?
> Israel is anywhere but in the "Heart of Arab Oil"_ (especially in 1947)_.​Come on, what are you trying to imply here?  That Israel was created to gain oil concessions!  Nonsense, oil in that part of the Mediterranean wasn't even envisioned then.  Even today, the Levant Basin findings are relatively new and undeveloped.  Tamar Gas Field was not discovered until 2009; with the Karish discovery early this year.  These were not discoveries even dreamed of in 1947; and totally outside the US licenses and exploration zones of the Gulf State Oil tracks of the 1930's.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks, Rocco. You responded to the fallacious claims made by george before I could.
> 
> Aside from the silly Its about the oil nonsense is georges lack of knowledge and weird notions of Filastin.  Of historical (and anthropological note), is that the Philistines (the "Sea Peoples") never settled Judea, they settled only the southwestern coast; nor were they of the Semetic tribes from which the Jews, Arabs, Hittites etc. descend. They were from Crete and Macednonia and the Aegean.
> 
> Furthermore, they never were a "nation." Like their Aegean relatives, they formed "city-states"--the key centers being what is now Ashdod, Ashkelon, and Gaza.
> 
> Thus, the modern Palestinians are not descended from the Philistines--but are brethren to the Jews.
> 
> Philistia never existed as a nation, nor did the ancient city-states contain more than a small coastal margin of what is now modern day Israel and the Gaza strip.
Click to expand...

"Palestine (Arabic: &#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606;* *Filas&#7789;&#299;n, Falas&#7789;&#299;n, Filis&#7789;&#299;n; Greek: &#928;&#945;&#955;&#945;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#943;&#957;&#951;, Palaistin&#275;; Latin: Palaestina; Hebrew: &#1508;&#1500;&#1513;&#1514;&#1497;&#1504;&#1492; Palestina) is* a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River..."

"Moshe Sharon writes that when the Arabs took over Greater Syria in the 7th century, place names that were in use by the Byzantine administration before them, generally continued to be used. 

"Hence, he traces the emergence of the *Arabic form Filastin* to this adoption, with Arabic inflection, of Roman and Hebrew (Semitic) names.[6] Jacob Lassner and Selwyn Ilan Troen offer a different view, writing that Jund Filastin, the full name for the administrative province under the rule of the Arab caliphates, was traced by Muslim geographers back to the Philistines of the Bible.[26] 

"The use of the name 'Palestine' in English became more common after the European renaissance.[27] It was officially revived by the British after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and applied to the territory that was placed under The Palestine Mandate."

*I'm not sure how you are using the word "nation." If you mean a community of people sharing a common language, culture, ethnicity, or descent, maybe you can explain why Jews alone, among all nations of this world, are entitled to land their ancestors conquered thousands of years ago?*

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## toastman

Because they declared independence before the Palestinians did (40 years before, to be exact)

Plus, they won every war of aggression that the Arab states, including the Palestinians , waged against the state of Israel . In other word, superiority on the battlefield .

Don't like it ? Too bad


----------



## georgephillip

MHunterB said:


> Oh, Georgie - why won't you admit the truth?  Which is that you don't particularly care about how wretched the Palestinian plight:  you just USE it as an excuse to spew Jew-hatred, and hatred of 'capitalism' and hatred of whatever.......
> 
> Because of all the snide and vile 'asides' about 'kosher bullshit' and other offensive language which you never bother to remove from your verbiage, it's very very obvious.
> 
> Ultimately your 'complaint' is not what you claim Israel may do or 'want' - but simply the fact that an Israel of any size exists.  Your hate speech of calling my people 'belligerent racist migrants from Europe' is just one more example of your penchant for placing rhetoric before accuracy.   Ashkenazi Jews are not totally unrelated to other Jews or to people from the Levant as you pretend.  And -in case you hadn't noticed - over 50% of Jewish Israelis are NOT Ashkenazi.


Maybe you've missed the simple fact that "your people" are approximately half of all human beings currently living between the River and the sea, yet refuse to allow any semblance of democracy for most non-Jews living under laws written and enforced by Jews and for Jews at the expense of Arabs whose families have lived in Filastin for uninterrupted generations. Ultimately, Marg, my "complaint" is simply your people are not that fucking special; in spite of your vile and snide apologetics.


----------



## georgephillip

toastman said:


> Because they declared independence before the Palestinians did (40 years before, to be exact)
> 
> Plus, they won every war of aggression that the Arab states, including the Palestinians , waged against the state of Israel . In other word, superiority on the battlefield .
> 
> Don't like it ? Too bad


*How do you like the current demographics in Palestine, Toast?
Nearly equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living there, yet only Jews alone, among all nations living under Israeli laws, are allowed to vote in Israeli elections?*


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> Only those who swallow the Jew-first load believe Israel is anything but a proxy for western arms and oil interests, Kondie. How else to explain the heroic Jews' service to their colonial masters in 1956?


Drivel.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only those who swallow the Jew-first load believe Israel is anything but a proxy for western arms and oil interests, Kondie. How else to explain the heroic Jews' service to their colonial masters in 1956?
> 
> 
> 
> Drivel.
Click to expand...

"Two years later, in 1832, Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840, Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. 

"The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration and the Revival of the Hebrew language. 

"The movement was publicly supported by Great Britain during World War I with the Balfour Declaration of 1917."

*Tell us why you "think" British anti-Semites returned Filistan to the Turks a generation before Zionism began its holy mission?*

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only those who swallow the Jew-first load believe Israel is anything but a proxy for western arms and oil interests, Kondie. How else to explain the heroic Jews' service to their colonial masters in 1956?
> 
> 
> 
> Drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Two years later, in 1832, Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840, Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. ... Tell us why you "think" British anti-Semites returned Filistan to the Turks a generation before Zionism began its holy mission?
Click to expand...

Drivel.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they declared independence before the Palestinians did (40 years before, to be exact)
> 
> Plus, they won every war of aggression that the Arab states, including the Palestinians , waged against the state of Israel . In other word, superiority on the battlefield .
> 
> Don't like it ? Too bad
> 
> 
> 
> *How do you like the current demographics in Palestine, Toast?
> Nearly equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living there, yet only Jews alone, among all nations living under Israeli laws, are allowed to vote in Israeli elections?*
Click to expand...


Tell me the current population of Jews and non-Jews in Israel please and also are you saying that non-Jewish citizens are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections?  If so I would like proof of that and tell me why there are Arab Members of the Israeli parliament.


----------



## georgephillip

Sweet_Caroline said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they declared independence before the Palestinians did (40 years before, to be exact)
> 
> Plus, they won every war of aggression that the Arab states, including the Palestinians , waged against the state of Israel . In other word, superiority on the battlefield .
> 
> Don't like it ? Too bad
> 
> 
> 
> *How do you like the current demographics in Palestine, Toast?
> Nearly equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living there, yet only Jews alone, among all nations living under Israeli laws, are allowed to vote in Israeli elections?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me the current population of Jews and non-Jews in Israel please and also are you saying that non-Jewish citizens are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections?  If so I would like proof of that and tell me why there are Arab Members of the Israeli parliament.
Click to expand...

*Here are figures from seven years ago:*

"According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of May 2006, of Israel's 7 million people, 77% were Jews, 18.5% Arabs, and 4.3% "others".[62] Among Jews, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim  22% from Europe,the former Soviet republics, Russia, and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[63]
Of Israel's 7 million citizens, 516,569 Jewish ones live in enclaves referred to as Israeli settlements and outposts in various lands adjacent to the state of Israel occupied by Israel during the Six Day War..."

*I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.


It's the will of allah. They have their own palistan and it's laws with it and Abu Masen too, of course.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

georgephillip said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How do you like the current demographics in Palestine, Toast?
> Nearly equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living there, yet only Jews alone, among all nations living under Israeli laws, are allowed to vote in Israeli elections?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me the current population of Jews and non-Jews in Israel please and also are you saying that non-Jewish citizens are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections?  If so I would like proof of that and tell me why there are Arab Members of the Israeli parliament.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Here are figures from seven years ago:*
> 
> "According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of May 2006, of Israel's 7 million people, 77% were Jews, 18.5% Arabs, and 4.3% "others".[62] Among Jews, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim  22% from Europe,the former Soviet republics, Russia, and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[63]
> Of Israel's 7 million citizens, 516,569 Jewish ones live in enclaves referred to as Israeli settlements and outposts in various lands adjacent to the state of Israel occupied by Israel during the Six Day War..."
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


In other words you lied.  Perhaps research before you make assertions of what you perceive as facts.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only those who swallow the Jew-first load believe Israel is anything but a proxy for western arms and oil interests, Kondie. How else to explain the heroic Jews' service to their colonial masters in 1956?
> 
> 
> 
> Drivel.
Click to expand...

How does one say "drivel" in Hebrew (or French)?


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only those who swallow the Jew-first load believe Israel is anything but a proxy for western arms and oil interests, Kondie. How else to explain the heroic Jews' service to their colonial masters in 1956?
> 
> 
> 
> Drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does one say "drivel" in Hebrew (or French)?
Click to expand...

"georgephillip"


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> How does one say "drivel" in Hebrew (or French)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "georgephillip"
Click to expand...




Post of the fuckin month !


----------



## georgephillip

Sweet_Caroline said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me the current population of Jews and non-Jews in Israel please and also are you saying that non-Jewish citizens are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections?  If so I would like proof of that and tell me why there are Arab Members of the Israeli parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> *Here are figures from seven years ago:*
> 
> "According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of May 2006, of Israel's 7 million people, 77% were Jews, 18.5% Arabs, and 4.3% "others".[62] Among Jews, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim  22% from Europe,the former Soviet republics, Russia, and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[63]
> Of Israel's 7 million citizens, 516,569 Jewish ones live in enclaves referred to as Israeli settlements and outposts in various lands adjacent to the state of Israel occupied by Israel during the Six Day War..."
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words you lied.  Perhaps research before you make assertions of what you perceive as facts.
Click to expand...

Millions of non-Jews who are not citizens of Israel live under Israeli military law between the River and the sea.
These millions of non-Jews are not allowed to vote for the Jews or Arabs who write the laws they live under.
It's not a lie to point out the fact that Israel prefers to be a Jewish state and not a Democratic one.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

georgephillip said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Here are figures from seven years ago:*
> 
> "According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of May 2006, of Israel's 7 million people, 77% were Jews, 18.5% Arabs, and 4.3% "others".[62] Among Jews, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim  22% from Europe,the former Soviet republics, Russia, and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[63]
> Of Israel's 7 million citizens, 516,569 Jewish ones live in enclaves referred to as Israeli settlements and outposts in various lands adjacent to the state of Israel occupied by Israel during the Six Day War..."
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you lied.  Perhaps research before you make assertions of what you perceive as facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Millions of non-Jews who are not citizens of Israel live under Israeli military law between the River and the sea.
> These millions of non-Jews are not allowed to vote for the Jews or Arabs who write the laws they live under.
> It's not a lie to point out the fact that Israel prefers to be a Jewish state and not a Democratic one.
Click to expand...


Lie.  

An Israeli citizen, whatever religion, is allowed to vote.  If the citizen is not Israeli then of course he or she is not allowed to vote.  It is the same in any country.


----------



## docmauser1

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> How does one say "drivel" in Hebrew (or French)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "georgephillip"
Click to expand...

Hilarious!!!


----------



## toastman

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they declared independence before the Palestinians did (40 years before, to be exact)
> 
> Plus, they won every war of aggression that the Arab states, including the Palestinians , waged against the state of Israel . In other word, superiority on the battlefield .
> 
> Don't like it ? Too bad
> 
> 
> 
> *How do you like the current demographics in Palestine, Toast?
> Nearly equal numbers of Jews and non-Jews living there, yet only Jews alone, among all nations living under Israeli laws, are allowed to vote in Israeli elections?*
Click to expand...


"Among all Nations living under Israeli laws"

What nation other than Israel lives under Israeli laws??

And where did you read that only Jews are allowed to vote in Israeli elections ?


----------



## toastman

georgephillip said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Here are figures from seven years ago:*
> 
> "According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, as of May 2006, of Israel's 7 million people, 77% were Jews, 18.5% Arabs, and 4.3% "others".[62] Among Jews, 68% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim  22% from Europe,the former Soviet republics, Russia, and the Americas, and 10% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[63]
> Of Israel's 7 million citizens, 516,569 Jewish ones live in enclaves referred to as Israeli settlements and outposts in various lands adjacent to the state of Israel occupied by Israel during the Six Day War..."
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you lied.  Perhaps research before you make assertions of what you perceive as facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Millions of non-Jews who are not citizens of Israel live under Israeli military law between the River and the sea.
> These millions of non-Jews are not allowed to vote for the Jews or Arabs who write the laws they live under.
> It's not a lie to point out the fact that Israel prefers to be a Jewish state and not a Democratic one.
Click to expand...


What are you complaining about ??? That Israeli citizens are now allowed to vote ?? 

Is there something wrong with that ?


----------



## georgephillip

Sweet_Caroline said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you lied.  Perhaps research before you make assertions of what you perceive as facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Millions of non-Jews who are not citizens of Israel live under Israeli military law between the River and the sea.
> These millions of non-Jews are not allowed to vote for the Jews or Arabs who write the laws they live under.
> It's not a lie to point out the fact that Israel prefers to be a Jewish state and not a Democratic one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lie.
> 
> An Israeli citizen, whatever religion, is allowed to vote.  If the citizen is not Israeli then of course he or she is not allowed to vote.  It is the same in any country.
Click to expand...

Israeli law applies to millions of non-citizens living between the River and the sea yet none of those non-citizens have any way of influencing those who write the laws they live under. Therefore, Israel denies millions of Arabs their fundamental human right of self-determination. Maybe that's why the world has condemned Israeli human rights violations more than any other country on the planet?


----------



## georgephillip

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you lied.  Perhaps research before you make assertions of what you perceive as facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Millions of non-Jews who are not citizens of Israel live under Israeli military law between the River and the sea.
> These millions of non-Jews are not allowed to vote for the Jews or Arabs who write the laws they live under.
> It's not a lie to point out the fact that Israel prefers to be a Jewish state and not a Democratic one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you complaining about ??? That Israeli citizens are now allowed to vote ??
> 
> Is there something wrong with that ?
Click to expand...

There's something wrong with the fact there is no Israeli nationality in Israel.
That's what I'm complaining about; why aren't you?


----------



## Kondor3

All of those non-citizens (or their parents or grandparents) in the West Bank and in Gaza chose to side with the invading Arab armies of 1948, to destroy Israel, and wanted nothing to do with living under Israeli law... either in 1948 or the two decades prior to 1967.

After 1967 the idea of Israeli citizenship for Muslim-Arab Palestinians was off the table, as a realistic possibility on the Israeli end, and has been off the table ever since.

The Palestinians chose poorly.

They are now dealing with the consequences of that poor choice.

And they do not get a do-over.

They may end-up preserving a Rump Palestine with the shreds of land they still have left.

But Israeli citizenship is no longer possible for them.

Consequently, they have never had, nor ever will have, a vote.

Only citizens are allowed to vote.

The Muslim-Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza made it very clear, repeatedly, decades ago, while they still had the chance and a choice, that they did not wish to be Israeli citizens.

Their wish was granted.

Too much blood has been spilled since those days, and too many events and policies have been set into motion, to ever re-open such a window of citizenship opportunity.

Too late for them to change their minds now.

Decades too late.

The answer is "No".

And, just for clarification's sake... "No" means "No".


----------



## georgephillip

For your admission that Greater Israel is officially an apartheid state.
Feel proud?


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> For your admission that Greater Israel is officially an apartheid state.
> Feel proud?


The separation was chosen by the Palestinians, not the Israelis.

It is their poor choices which brought about this separation.

This is not Apartheid.

This is a state under seige with a hostile population in its midst which has been making war against its citizens and their ancestors for the past century.

This is walling-off the barbarians and crazies in order to minimize civilian casualties amongst its citizens.

This is common sense and taking care of one's own people.

This is restraint of the highest order, when it would have been so much simpler to go in there and slaughter anything that moved and to take no prisoners, then move into the vacuum.

And that is, indeed, a reason for pride.


----------



## toastman

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Millions of non-Jews who are not citizens of Israel live under Israeli military law between the River and the sea.
> These millions of non-Jews are not allowed to vote for the Jews or Arabs who write the laws they live under.
> It's not a lie to point out the fact that Israel prefers to be a Jewish state and not a Democratic one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you complaining about ??? That Israeli citizens are now allowed to vote ??
> 
> Is there something wrong with that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's something wrong with the fact there is no Israeli nationality in Israel.
> That's what I'm complaining about; why aren't you?
Click to expand...


Sure there is. Citizens of Israel are 'Israelis' . What's so hard to understand ?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

georgephillip said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Millions of non-Jews who are not citizens of Israel live under Israeli military law between the River and the sea.
> These millions of non-Jews are not allowed to vote for the Jews or Arabs who write the laws they live under.
> It's not a lie to point out the fact that Israel prefers to be a Jewish state and not a Democratic one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lie.
> 
> An Israeli citizen, whatever religion, is allowed to vote.  If the citizen is not Israeli then of course he or she is not allowed to vote.  It is the same in any country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli law applies to millions of non-citizens living between the River and the sea yet none of those non-citizens have any way of influencing those who write the laws they live under. Therefore, Israel denies millions of Arabs their fundamental human right of self-determination. Maybe that's why the world has condemned Israeli human rights violations more than any other country on the planet?
Click to expand...


If they are not a citizen then what the hell does it matter about whether the laws affect them or not.  If someone has a vote, they have a say, and they are registered citizens.  What is so difficult to understand.  The Muslims and Christians who are citizens have a vote and have Members of the Knesset to represent them.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> All of those non-citizens (or their parents or grandparents) in the West Bank and in Gaza chose to side with the invading Arab armies of 1948, to destroy Israel, and wanted nothing to do with living under Israeli law... either in 1948 or the two decades prior to 1967.


Those arab army's went in to protect the civil rights of the indigenous arab population, that was being systematically stripped from them as more zionists migrated into the area.  They were basically trying to do, what the British should have done, which was restore order.

There was no major violence in that area prior to the zionist migration.

And who wants to live under Israeli apartheid laws?  In East Jerusalem, if a Palestinian starts a conversation with an Israeli settler (I call them Israeli insurgents), he could get arrested.  In contrast, an Israeli settler can walk around with a machine gun, blow bunch of Palestinian's away and serve maybe a couple hours in a local jail, then released.  Who the fuck in their right mind would want to live under such repression?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of those non-citizens (or their parents or grandparents) in the West Bank and in Gaza chose to side with the invading Arab armies of 1948, to destroy Israel, and wanted nothing to do with living under Israeli law... either in 1948 or the two decades prior to 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> Those arab army's went in to protect the civil rights of the indigenous arab population, that was being systematically stripped from them as more zionists migrated into the area.  They were basically trying to do, what the British should have done, which was restore order.
> 
> There was no major violence in that area prior to the zionist migration.
> 
> And who wants to live under Israeli apartheid laws?  In East Jerusalem, if a Palestinian starts a conversation with an Israeli settler (I call them Israeli insurgents), he could get arrested.  In contrast, an Israeli settler can walk around with a machine gun, blow bunch of Palestinian's away and serve maybe a couple hours in a local jail, then released.  Who the fuck in their right mind would want to live under such repression?
Click to expand...


Why would a Palestinian be arrested if he or she starts a conversation with a Jew?  What law was broken?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Why would a Palestinian be arrested if he or she starts a conversation with a Jew?  What law was broken?


I don't know.  I don't have the answer to that.  I don't live there. This is in a city called Sheikh Jarrah (if you're arab); Shimon HaTzadik, if you're an Israeli settler.

Here's the article that it came from...



> _according to the Israeli human rights organization Yesh Din, less than 9 percent of investigations into settler violence conducted by the Israeli police in the West Bank result in indictments. Meanwhile, in both the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Israeli security forces frequently carry out unannounced night raids, ransacking Palestinian homes and arresting family members without cause.
> 
> The Israeli government has a $19.2 million budget (70 million shekels) for settler security in East Jerusalem alone. If Palestinians engage settlers in conversation, they risk arrest, but settlerswho freely walk the street with machine guns almost always avoid prosecution if they open fire on Palestinians. This extreme legal impunity has been standard since the occupation began. In Silwan, we call the settlers the militia, Qaraeen tells me._


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

I still need a law that explains why a Palestinian would be arrested for speaking to a settler.  I doubt whether there is a law.  For instance if a settler goes to a Palestinian store is the cashier there not allowed to speak to the settler (the customer) for fear of arrest.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> I still need a law that explains why a Palestinian would be arrested for speaking to a settler.  I doubt whether there is a law.  For instance if a settler goes to a Palestinian store is the cashier there not allowed to speak to the settler (the customer) for fear of arrest.


What you're saying makes sense.  However, I can't answer that, because I just don't know.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still need a law that explains why a Palestinian would be arrested for speaking to a settler.  I doubt whether there is a law.  For instance if a settler goes to a Palestinian store is the cashier there not allowed to speak to the settler (the customer) for fear of arrest.
> 
> 
> 
> What you're saying makes sense.  However, I can't answer that, because I just don't know.
Click to expand...


Well then!  It's not true.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Well then!  It's not true.


Not according to the people who live there and have experienced this.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well then!  It's not true.
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the people who live there and have experienced this.
Click to expand...


If I were a settler, went to the grocery store nearby, which is owned by Palestinians, and the cashier asked me how my husband and children are, and I said they are doing good thanks, and we wished each other a nice day (that is typical of how Jews and Palestinians treat each other in stores you know, then no law was broken.  I think you should take the claims that Palestinians are arrested for speaking to Jews with a pinch of salt.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> If I were a settler, went to the grocery store nearby, which is owned by Palestinians, and the cashier asked me how my husband and children are, and I said they are doing good thanks, and we wished each other a nice day (that is typical of how Jews and Palestinians treat each other in stores you know, then no law was broken.  I think you should take the claims that Palestinians are arrested for speaking to Jews with a pinch of salt.
> 
> Have a nice day.


I don't think that was the situation in the article.

I got the impression that if a Palestinian resident walked up to an Israeli settler on the street in public in full view of everyone around, including the Israeli guard tower nearby, than that person would run the risk of being arrested.

What's done in private, is private.  What's done in public, is subject to recriminations.

Since it's morning here, I guess I should say, "Have a nice night".


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

For all intent and purposes, you are talking about non-Israeli Citizens in Occupied Territory, who have been and continue to be hostile enemy non-combatants.



georgephillip said:


> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*


*(COMMON SENSE - CUSTOMARY LAW)*

I cannot think of a single military occupation in the last millennium, that permitted the hostile enemy population of a foreign state to have a voice in domestic political affairs.

When you think of one, let me know.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> For all intent and purposes, you are talking about non-Israeli Citizens in Occupied Territory, who have been and continue to be hostile enemy non-combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMON SENSE - CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> 
> I cannot think of a single military occupation in the last millennium, that permitted the hostile enemy population of a foreign state to have a voice in domestic political affairs.
> 
> When you think of one, let me know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

An occupational force, is not a "non-combatant".

And the occupied territories in which the arabs live, is not a foreign state.

It is to the Israeli's; it's not to the Palestinian's.


----------



## georgephillip

toastman said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you complaining about ??? That Israeli citizens are now allowed to vote ??
> 
> Is there something wrong with that ?
> 
> 
> 
> There's something wrong with the fact there is no Israeli nationality in Israel.
> That's what I'm complaining about; why aren't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there is. Citizens of Israel are 'Israelis' . What's so hard to understand ?
Click to expand...

1948.
The Jewish state of Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality, preferring to make an unusual distinction where all Israelis qualify as "citizens of Israel"; however, the state itself was defined as belonging to the "Jewish nation" which included not only the 5.6 million Israeli Jews but another seven million Jews around the planet.

Possibly this duplicity explains how the special status of Jewish nationality undermines the citizenship rights of non-Jews in Israel?

Lawsuit challenges Israel's discriminatory citizenship definition | The Electronic Intifada


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's something wrong with the fact there is no Israeli nationality in Israel.
> That's what I'm complaining about; why aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is. Citizens of Israel are 'Israelis' . What's so hard to understand ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1948.
> The Jewish state of Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality, preferring to make an unusual distinction where all Israelis qualify as "citizens of Israel"; however, the state itself was defined as belonging to the "Jewish nation" which included not only the 5.6 million Israeli Jews but another seven million Jews around the planet.
> 
> Possibly this duplicity explains how the special status of Jewish nationality undermines the citizenship rights of non-Jews in Israel?
> 
> Lawsuit challenges Israel's discriminatory citizenship definition | The Electronic Intifada
Click to expand...

Dream on.

No Israeli court is going to redefine ownership of the Israeli State.

It's their country now, and they can bloody-well do what they want with it.

Including the crafting and interpreting of laws to enforce their will.

Israel is intended as a home for the Jews.

That's the way it's going to stay.

All the court challenges in the world aren't going to change that.

Hell, even logic isn't going to change that.

The Jews have said: "This is ours" - and they intend to keep it that way.

Sounds like the Muslim-Arabs of the region don't much care for Dhimmitude.

The kind of second-class citizenship that the Muslims have been serving-up for Jews, for centuries.

What goes around comes around.

And now it's the Arab's turn in the barrel.


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is. Citizens of Israel are 'Israelis' . What's so hard to understand ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1948.
> The Jewish state of Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality, preferring to make an unusual distinction where all Israelis qualify as "citizens of Israel"; however, the state itself was defined as belonging to the "Jewish nation" which included not only the 5.6 million Israeli Jews but another seven million Jews around the planet.
> 
> Possibly this duplicity explains how the special status of Jewish nationality undermines the citizenship rights of non-Jews in Israel?
> 
> Lawsuit challenges Israel's discriminatory citizenship definition | The Electronic Intifada
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dream on.
> 
> No Israeli court is going to redefine ownership of the Israeli State.
> 
> It's their country now, and they can bloody-well do what they want with it.
> 
> Including the crafting and interpreting of laws to enforce their will.
> 
> Israel is intended as a home for the Jews.
> 
> That's the way it's going to stay.
> 
> All the court challenges in the world aren't going to change that.
> 
> Hell, even logic isn't going to change that.
> 
> The Jews have said: "This is ours" - and they intend to keep it that way.
> 
> Sounds like the Muslim-Arabs of the region don't much care for Dhimmitude.
> 
> The kind of second-class citizenship that the Muslims have been serving-up for Jews, for centuries.
> 
> What goes around comes around.
> 
> And now it's the Arab's turn in the barrel.
Click to expand...

Who do you imagine "owns" the Israeli state?
Rich Jews in Chicago?
"Their country" does not "bloody well" include the West Bank and Gaza.
Millions of people living between the River and the sea are currently denied their fundamental human right of self-determination because Jews value their nation more than democracy.
Fuck that and the feral fascists who support it.
Jews will choose between apartheid or democracy or vanish back into their sewers.
Tough choice?
Tough shit!


----------



## georgephillip

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> For all intent and purposes, you are talking about non-Israeli Citizens in Occupied Territory, who have been and continue to be hostile enemy non-combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMON SENSE - CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> 
> I cannot think of a single military occupation in the last millennium, that permitted the hostile enemy population of a foreign state to have a voice in domestic political affairs.
> 
> When you think of one, let me know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*First tell me what "foreign state" you're referring to? 
Zionists began their creeping annexation of Palestine over one hundred years ago, and apparently you've chosen to support their hostilities and condemn their victims. Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are not hostile non-combatants they are protected persons under the Fourth Geneva Convention:*

"Section III. Occupied territories[edit]
Articles 47-78 impose substantial obligations on occupying powers. As well as numerous provisions for the general welfare of the inhabitants of an occupied territory, an occupier may not forcibly deport protected persons, or deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into occupied territory (Art.49)."

*When you think of a credible rationalization of Israel's illegal military occupation of Palestine, tell me.*

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> "..._Who do you imagine "owns" the Israeli state?_..."


The question of ownership of the State was raised in the article *YOU* cited. Go back and re-read your own article.



> "..._Their country" does not 'bloody well' include the West Bank and Gaza_..."



It does if the Israelis *SAY* it does.

Unless, of course, you are prepared to stop them.



> "..._Millions of people living between the River and the sea are currently denied their fundamental human right of self-determination because Jews value their nation more than democracy_..."



Millions of people living in the West Bank and Gaza are denied Israeli citizenship because they chose to stand alongside the invading Arab armies of 1948, and created and supported militias which engaged in suicide-bombing and rocketry campaigns against innocent Israeli civilian populations; thereby disqualified themselves forevermore as citizens of Israel.

If they don't like it, they can always pack-up and leave.



> "..._Fuck that and the feral fascists who support it_..."



You may take that up directly with the Israeli government.



> "..._Jews will choose between apartheid or democracy_..."



There is no Apartheid going on there.

Merely a walling-off of barbarians and crazies so as to minimize civilian casualties.

The barbarians and crazies had been given plenty of chances to come to a sane, rational agreement with Israel, before Israel eventually lost interest and blocked the possibility.

Also, Israel is a highly democratic nation.

Insofar as its own citizens are concerned.

Far more democratic than most of the train-wreck Arab Republics and Kingdoms nearby.



> "..._or vanish back into their sewers_..."



So, the Jews originated ('...back into...') in the sewers, did they?

Thank you for the reinforcing example of your own bigotry.



> "..._Tough choice? Tough shit!_"



I suggest you take-up your 'Tough' talk with the Israel Defense Force.

The Israelis face no such choice.

Except, perhaps, in your frenzied imagination.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> It does if the Israelis *SAY* it does.


Hitler felt the same way about Poland and we all know what happened to him.


----------



## Moonglow

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay



It's the Arabs you must convince.


----------



## Moonglow

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does if the Israelis *SAY* it does.
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler felt the same way about Poland and we all know what happened to him.
Click to expand...


He got married and killed himself. See what happens when you get married!


----------



## Moonglow

georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> For all intent and purposes, you are talking about non-Israeli Citizens in Occupied Territory, who have been and continue to be hostile enemy non-combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMON SENSE - CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> 
> I cannot think of a single military occupation in the last millennium, that permitted the hostile enemy population of a foreign state to have a voice in domestic political affairs.
> 
> When you think of one, let me know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *First tell me what "foreign state" you're referring to?
> Zionists began their creeping annexation of Palestine over one hundred years ago, and apparently you've chosen to support their hostilities and condemn their victims. Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are not hostile non-combatants they are protected persons under the Fourth Geneva Convention:*
> 
> "Section III. Occupied territories[edit]
> Articles 47-78 impose substantial obligations on occupying powers. As well as numerous provisions for the general welfare of the inhabitants of an occupied territory, an occupier may not forcibly deport protected persons, or deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into occupied territory (Art.49)."
> 
> *When you think of a credible rationalization of Israel's illegal military occupation of Palestine, tell me.*
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Spoils of war. You attack me, I take your land and keep it. It has happened so many times in human history that it is a surprise to see some one that does not know it.


----------



## Peterf

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of those non-citizens (or their parents or grandparents) in the West Bank and in Gaza chose to side with the invading Arab armies of 1948, to destroy Israel, and wanted nothing to do with living under Israeli law... either in 1948 or the two decades prior to 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> Those arab army's went in to protect the civil rights of the indigenous arab population, that was being systematically stripped from them as more zionists migrated into the area.  They were basically trying to do, what the British should have done, which was restore order.
> 
> There was no major violence in that area prior to the zionist migration.
> 
> And who wants to live under Israeli apartheid laws?  In East Jerusalem, if a Palestinian starts a conversation with an Israeli settler (I call them Israeli insurgents), he could get arrested.  In contrast, an Israeli settler can walk around with a machine gun, blow bunch of Palestinian's away and serve maybe a couple hours in a local jail, then released.  Who the fuck in their right mind would want to live under such repression?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would a Palestinian be arrested if he or she starts a conversation with a Jew?  What law was broken?
Click to expand...


It will become clear if you remember that Billo's idea of 'starting a conversation' is a tirade of vile abuse.


----------



## Peterf

Moonglow said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoils of war. You attack me, I take your land and keep it. It has happened so many times in human history that it is a surprise to see some one that does not know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Start a war and lose it and you may lose territory.   Ask the Germans if you don't believe me.
> 
> Imo Israel needs every bit of land it now has for its security.  The place is surrounded by implacable enemies, bent on its complete destruction and the murder of its citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## PrometheusBound

georgephillip said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
> 
> 
> 
> Does Israel have borders?
> If so, what is its eastern boundary?
Click to expand...


Medina, which was stolen from the Jews by Mohammed and his feral herd of desert bandits.


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

This is nonsense.



georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> For all intent and purposes, you are talking about non-Israeli Citizens in Occupied Territory, who have been and continue to be hostile enemy non-combatants.
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm saying millions of non-Jews who are subject to Israeli military laws have no voice in selecting those Jews or non-Jews who write the laws.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMON SENSE - CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> 
> I cannot think of a single military occupation in the last millennium, that permitted the hostile enemy population of a foreign state to have a voice in domestic political affairs.
> 
> When you think of one, let me know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First tell me what "foreign state" you're referring to?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The State of Palestine (as of 1988) is provisionally occupied by the State of Israel.

The provisionally occupied territory (Palestine) is a foreign state relative to the occupying power (Israel).  If it were not such a case, it wouldn't be an "occupation" and the Geneva Convention would not apply.  It would be a pure domestic matter.



georgephillip said:


> Zionists began their creeping annexation of Palestine over one hundred years ago, and apparently you've chosen to support their hostilities and condemn their victims. Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are not hostile non-combatants they are protected persons under the Fourth Geneva Convention:


*(COMMENT)*

I did not referred to any aspect of my comment,  the Settlements under the provisional occupation.  And I did not specifically address Article 8, Part II, ICC-RS complaints.  Your GCIV citation applies to the settlements, but does not apply to hostile and belligerent non-combatants.

Both the HAMAS Covenant and the Palestinian National Charter further the original threat and solemn oath of the Palestinian which opposes peace.  The original threat of aggression and conflict being made before occupation.  Those Arab that falll under the pledge of the original threat, or subscribe to the HAMAS Covenant (Jihadist) or the Palestinian National Charter, fall under Article 68 of the GCIV.



			
				Convention (IV) Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva said:
			
		

> *Article 68.*
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty against a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
> 
> The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
> 
> In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced on a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​
> _*SOURCE:*_ GCIV





georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *When you think of a credible rationalization of Israel's illegal military occupation of Palestine, tell me.*
> 
> 
> 
> When you think of a credible rationalization of Israel's illegal military occupation of Palestine, tell me.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Many times I have copied the relevant threats to the duly constituted State of Israel.  I don't think it is necessary to do it again.  But the summation of the threats, made in 1948, and still amplified today, are the _prima facie_ case that are in ample evidence and present just cause to continue Occupation and quarantine of Palestinians.   



georgephillip said:


> creeping annexation


*(COMMENT)*

The State of Israel has not attempted to annex either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  While a case can be made that there are defiant settlements within the West Bank, this is a matter of Treaty Settlement pursuant to restitution, reparations, and civil claims agreements.

In the case of continuing "occupation" - there is nothing illegal about it.  



			
				Convention (IV) Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva said:
			
		

> *Article 6*
> 
> In the case of occupied territory, the application of the present Convention *shall cease one year after the general close of military operations*; however, the Occupying Power shall be bound, for the duration of the occupation, to the extent that such Power exercises the functions of government in such territory, by the provisions of the following Articles of the present Convention: 1 to 12, 27, 29 to 34, 47, 49, 51, 52, 53, 59, 61 to 77, 143.​_*SOURCE:*_ GCIV


The Hostile Arab-Palestinian has never openly stated an end to the conflict, renounced the solemn oath for death to the Jewish People, altered the call for Jihad, or recanted the need for armed struggle in the overthrow of the Jewish State.  Therefore, under Article 6, the one year occupation convention has never been activated by the Hostile Arab Palestinian.  And thus, there is no Arab-Palestinian credential for cause of complaint in the matter of the scope and duration of the Occupation.  The end of occupation is determined by the terms set in the Palestinian threat.

When the Palestinian sues for peace, and renounces the conflict, AND demonstrates this by some irrefutable action and deed, then and only then does the Article 6 convention come into play.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

Peterf said:


> It will become clear if you remember that Billo's idea of 'starting a conversation' is a tirade of vile abuse.


That wasn't a very nice thing to say.


----------



## Billo_Really

Moonglow said:


> He got married and killed himself. See what happens when you get married!


Well, he was the most monogamous of all the WWII leaders.  Everyone else had their stable of bitches and war groupies.  All Adolf had, was Eva.  And maybe his aunt, in his youth.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does if the Israelis *SAY* it does.
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler felt the same way about Poland and we all know what happened to him.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh... but Hitler wasn't taking-back his old spiritual and ancestral homeland.


----------



## Moonglow

Billo_Really said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> He got married and killed himself. See what happens when you get married!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he was the most monogamous of all the WWII leaders.  Everyone else had their stable of bitches and war groupies.  All Adolf had, was Eva.  And maybe his aunt, in his youth.
Click to expand...


Sexual repression leads one to be a megalomaniac, since their energies are not used on marriage and children.


----------



## Moonglow

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does if the Israelis *SAY* it does.
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler felt the same way about Poland and we all know what happened to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhh... but Hitler wasn't taking-back his old spiritual and ancestral homeland.
Click to expand...


Prussia, in the new Poland was and ancestral home of the Germans.


----------



## Kondor3

Moonglow said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler felt the same way about Poland and we all know what happened to him.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhh... but Hitler wasn't taking-back his old spiritual and ancestral homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prussia, in the new Poland was and ancestral home of the Germans.
Click to expand...

True.

The same cannot be said for the balance of Poland, however.


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Who do you imagine "owns" the Israeli state?_..."
> 
> 
> 
> The question of ownership of the State was raised in the article *YOU* cited. Go back and re-read your own article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Their country" does not 'bloody well' include the West Bank and Gaza_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does if the Israelis *SAY* it does.
> 
> Unless, of course, you are prepared to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> Millions of people living in the West Bank and Gaza are denied Israeli citizenship because they chose to stand alongside the invading Arab armies of 1948, and created and supported militias which engaged in suicide-bombing and rocketry campaigns against innocent Israeli civilian populations; thereby disqualified themselves forevermore as citizens of Israel.
> 
> If they don't like it, they can always pack-up and leave.
> 
> 
> 
> You may take that up directly with the Israeli government.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Apartheid going on there.
> 
> Merely a walling-off of barbarians and crazies so as to minimize civilian casualties.
> 
> The barbarians and crazies had been given plenty of chances to come to a sane, rational agreement with Israel, before Israel eventually lost interest and blocked the possibility.
> 
> Also, Israel is a highly democratic nation.
> 
> Insofar as its own citizens are concerned.
> 
> Far more democratic than most of the train-wreck Arab Republics and Kingdoms nearby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._or vanish back into their sewers_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, the Jews originated ('...back into...') in the sewers, did they?
> 
> Thank you for the reinforcing example of your own bigotry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Tough choice? Tough shit!_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suggest you take-up your 'Tough' talk with the Israel Defense Force.
> 
> The Israelis face no such choice.
> 
> Except, perhaps, in your frenzied imagination.
Click to expand...

"No Israeli court is going to redefine ownership of the Israeli State."
Do you remember who asked that question?
My article questions why Israeli lawmakers and courts refused to recognize a Jewish nationality in 1948, choosing instead to distinguish between "citizens of Israel" a category that applies to Jew and non-Jew alike, and a state which is defined as belonging to the "Jewish nation" which includes all Jews on the planet.
Jewish courts have been defining ownership of non-Jewish land in Palestine since 1948 when thousands of Arabs who didn't "chose to stand alongside invading Arab armies" but rather made a decision to remain within the Green Line, often on land their families had occupied for generations. How do you justify Israeli courts classifying those loyal Arab Israelis as "present absentees" and giving their land to recent migrants from Europe while consigning the Arabs and their families to barb wire encircled camps for the next decade? If there's no apartheid going on in Israel, turn your amateurish imagination loose and explain the 30 laws that specifically privilege Jews in Israel in the areas of immigration rights, naturalization, and access to land and employment.


----------



## georgephillip

Moonglow said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> For all intent and purposes, you are talking about non-Israeli Citizens in Occupied Territory, who have been and continue to be hostile enemy non-combatants.
> 
> 
> *(COMMON SENSE - CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> 
> I cannot think of a single military occupation in the last millennium, that permitted the hostile enemy population of a foreign state to have a voice in domestic political affairs.
> 
> When you think of one, let me know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> *First tell me what "foreign state" you're referring to?
> Zionists began their creeping annexation of Palestine over one hundred years ago, and apparently you've chosen to support their hostilities and condemn their victims. Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are not hostile non-combatants they are protected persons under the Fourth Geneva Convention:*
> 
> "Section III. Occupied territories[edit]
> Articles 47-78 impose substantial obligations on occupying powers. As well as numerous provisions for the general welfare of the inhabitants of an occupied territory, an occupier may not forcibly deport protected persons, or deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into occupied territory (Art.49)."
> 
> *When you think of a credible rationalization of Israel's illegal military occupation of Palestine, tell me.*
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spoils of war. You attack me, I take your land and keep it. It has happened so many times in human history that it is a surprise to see some one that does not know it.
Click to expand...

With the exception of 1973, when did the Arabs initiate hostilities with Israel?
BTW, your "might makes right" and the "right of conquest" expired in 1949. If you honestly believe Jews are above international law, you will need to find modern arguments to justify it.


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Well!



georgephillip said:


> With the exception of 1973, when did the Arabs initiate hostilities with Israel?
> BTW, your "might makes right" and the "right of conquest" expired in 1949. If you honestly believe Jews are above international law, you will need to find modern arguments to justify it.


*(COMMENT)*

Do you want to start with the real Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Black Hand, or the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades of today?

Do you want to start with the 1948 conflict, or the call for a new Intifada today?

If you want to talk about being above the law, do you want to start with the suicide bombings, the piracy on the high seas, the various massacres, the hijackings of aircraft, armed attacks --- where do you want to start?

If you want to talk about international law, do you want to address all the various violations against organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens; OR, would you like to talk about the bomb makers like Samer Issawi, a member of the  Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, who was arrested by the Israeli army in Ramallah, for bomb making, during the Second Intifada? 

How would you like to approach the issue?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> "..._If there's no apartheid going on in Israel...explain_..."


Sure. What's going-on here is slow-paced Expulsion rather than Apartheid. They're not trying to set them apart. They're trying to make them so disgusted that they pick up and leave under their own power.


----------



## toastman

georgephillip said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *First tell me what "foreign state" you're referring to?
> Zionists began their creeping annexation of Palestine over one hundred years ago, and apparently you've chosen to support their hostilities and condemn their victims. Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are not hostile non-combatants they are protected persons under the Fourth Geneva Convention:*
> 
> "Section III. Occupied territories[edit]
> Articles 47-78 impose substantial obligations on occupying powers. As well as numerous provisions for the general welfare of the inhabitants of an occupied territory, an occupier may not forcibly deport protected persons, or deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into occupied territory (Art.49)."
> 
> *When you think of a credible rationalization of Israel's illegal military occupation of Palestine, tell me.*
> 
> Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoils of war. You attack me, I take your land and keep it. It has happened so many times in human history that it is a surprise to see some one that does not know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With the exception of 1973, when did the Arabs initiate hostilities with Israel?
> BTW, your "might makes right" and the "right of conquest" expired in 1949. If you honestly believe Jews are above international law, you will need to find modern arguments to justify it.
Click to expand...


1967, when they massed by Israel borders while threatening to destroy her. They surrounded tiny Israel while attacking her on all corners. And Israel is the aggressor ??

and before that in 1948 when 5 countries entered the territory with the intention of destroying the newly founded state. They surrounded the territory while trying to attack on all corners. and Israel is the aggressor ?


----------



## Peterf

Billo_Really said:


> Peterf said:
> 
> 
> 
> It will become clear if you remember that Billo's idea of 'starting a conversation' is a tirade of vile abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a very nice thing to say.
Click to expand...


I was about to express regret - but then I re-read the words that appear at the bottom of your every post.


----------



## Billo_Really

Peterf said:


> I was about to express regret - but then I re-read the words that appear at the bottom of your every post.


Kind of similar to what carpenters always say?

_*"Measure twice, cut once!"*​_


----------



## georgephillip

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Well!
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the exception of 1973, when did the Arabs initiate hostilities with Israel?
> BTW, your "might makes right" and the "right of conquest" expired in 1949. If you honestly believe Jews are above international law, you will need to find modern arguments to justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Do you want to start with the real Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Black Hand, or the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades of today?
> 
> Do you want to start with the 1948 conflict, or the call for a new Intifada today?
> 
> If you want to talk about being above the law, do you want to start with the suicide bombings, the piracy on the high seas, the various massacres, the hijackings of aircraft, armed attacks --- where do you want to start?
> 
> If you want to talk about international law, do you want to address all the various violations against organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens; OR, would you like to talk about the bomb makers like Samer Issawi, a member of the  Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, who was arrested by the Israeli army in Ramallah, for bomb making, during the Second Intifada?
> 
> How would you like to approach the issue?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*How about First Principles, Rocco?*

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

What was the ratio of Jew to Arab in 1917 Palestine?
Any Black Hands  or Intifadas?
Greedy Jews have done little else except "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" since 1917 with the aid of diplomatic cover and military aid from the reigning Empire of the day. Only devout slaves would fail to oppose such terrorist activities.

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Ahhhh... but Hitler wasn't taking-back his old spiritual and ancestral homeland.


It doesn't matter what excuse you use to justify your actions, acquiring land by force has been outlawed for the last 60 years.  And that was because of what went down in WWII.  So the entire world, in order to prevent another war like that, decided to make wars of choice, the highest crime a nation could commit.

But it seems Israel is determined to turn back the clock?


----------



## Billo_Really

Moonglow said:


> Prussia, in the new Poland was and ancestral home of the Germans.


They wanted an Aryian nation, zionists wanted a Jewish state.

Will the comparisons never end?  Is history repeating itself?


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prussia, in the new Poland was and ancestral home of the Germans.
> 
> 
> 
> They wanted an Aryian nation, zionists wanted a Jewish state.
> 
> Will the comparisons never end?  Is history repeating itself?
Click to expand...

And Muslims wanted and got dozens of Islamic states carved out of the collapsed Ottoman Empire. 

Doy!


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhh... but Hitler wasn't taking-back his old spiritual and ancestral homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._acquiring land by force has been outlawed for the last 60 years_..."
Click to expand...

Then explain the UN sitting still for the acquisition by the Soviet Union of all of the terroritories that eventually comprised the Warsaw Pact (Poland, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albania), and then installing friendly puppet governments in those lands to act as a large-scale buffer against The West.

Then explain...

* Argentina, trying to take the Falklands
* Iraq, trying to take Kuwait (_UN intervention_)
* Morocco taking Western Sahara from the Spanish
* North Vietnam taking South Vietnam
* North Korea trying to take South Korea (_UN intervention_)
* Indonesia taking East Timor from the Portugese
* China, taking Tibet
* Indonesia, taking Dutch New Guinea

...very few of which triggered any sort of UN response, and most of which were left to the contestants to fight-out, and, in cases where the foreign aggressor won-out, the land-grabs were allowed to remain intact, without effective UN intervention.

If you believe that Territorial Conquest is a thing of the past, and that the UN Charter effectively guards against this, then you are quite mistaken - but, in reality, you know better, don't you?

Look at it this way... just about everybody else on the face of the planet managed to grab enough land to support themselves before this so-called and farcical Prohibition went into effect; the Jews just came to the land-grab table after the game-clock had wound-down, and are determined to have their turn at-bat, in order to preserve their people.

If we consider the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be a Civil War within the region known as Palestine, then, we can safely accord to that conflict the same UN-hands-off approach that we saw in Vietnam and other civil wars that have occurred since the end of WWII.



> "..._And that was because of what went down in WWII_..."



Yes, we all understand the rationale behind it.



> "..._So the entire world, in order to prevent another war like that, decided to make wars of choice, the highest crime a nation could commit._"



When most of the 'conquerers' listed above have surrendered their conquered territories and been sanctioned appropriately and paid compensation, then you will have a case.

A case, at least, in which consistent treatment across the board is on your side.



> "..._But it seems Israel is determined to turn back the clock?_"



No. Just determined to carve-out a homeland for themselves after 6,000,000 of them were slaughtered. Regardless of what the rest of the world (_who already have their land_) thinks. Determined, as well, to be treated no differently than any other Civil War in which the UN chooses not to intervene. This is an internal struggle between two parties for control of an entire region, not a land-grab between sovereign States, despite last year's UN General Assembly Johnny-come-lately sleight-of-hand about Palestinian Statehood.


----------



## Roudy

> Those arab army's went in to protect the civil rights of the indigenous arab population, that was being systematically stripped from them as more zionists migrated into the area. They were basically trying to do, what the British should have done, which was restore order.



Dude you have no idea what you're talking about. Arabs in fact were the biggest deniers of the existence of Palestine or a Palestinian people. The main reason they attacked Israel was always and only to destroy THE JEWISH STATE and carve the proceeds up between themselves.  

Proof of that is when Jordan and Egypt controlled West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967 not a single Arab or Palestinian mentioned the word "Palestine".  

Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

What other Arabs declared after the *Six-Day War*:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


----------



## RoccoR

georgephillip,  _et al,_

My apologies.  I did not see this  until now.



georgephillip said:


> *How about First Principles, Rocco?*
> 
> "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."


*(COMMENT)*

Let's look at this.

The impression you are sending is that, some how, the

Civil Rights of the non-Jewish communities in Palestine were trampled.
Religious Rights of the non-Jewish communities in Palestine were trampled.

Let's talk about these rights.  We are in the Muslim world, and you're talking 1917.

What were these rights under the Ottoman Empire?

*(DISCUSSION)*

Civil Rights are not universal concepts.  They general pertain to the range of personal liberties an individual may exercise, unique to a citizen or resident of a particular country or community.  Clearly such rights are not the same for everyone, everywhere, at all times through history.  Even today, the Civil Rights in the UK, Russia, China, Japan and the USA differ. 


What particular Civil Rights are you claiming were the Jewish People prejudice against relative to the non-Jewish communities?

Religious Rights are an extension of Civil Rights.  They are the subset of rights that generally allow the individual to worship (or not) in any reasonable way they choose.  Again these are not universally held; particularly in the Muslim world.  There is more religious strife in the Muslim world than any other realm on Earth.  One needs only look at the laws of Islamic States and the recent prejudice shown MP Sharon at the Temple Mount, to see the variation in acceptance.  One needs only a cursory examination of the conflict between Sunni and Shi'ite to notice a difference.


What particular Religious Rights are you claiming were the Jewish People prejudice against relative to the non-Jewish communities?



georgephillip said:


> What was the ratio of Jew to Arab in 1917 Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

This really confuses me, but I'll answer the question as best I can.  I don't have reliable data for 1917.  What I have is:



			
				AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE said:
			
		

> The country is under-populated because of this lack of development. There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR





georgephillip said:


> Any Black Hands or Intifadas?


*(COMMENT)*

No "Black Hands or Intifadas," this level of organization was a development that took a decade to emerge.  However, anti-Semitic activity on a small scale (district level) was still well known even then. 



			
				AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE said:
			
		

> The agitation, to which reference has been made, against what was thought to be the policy to be adopted in relation to the Jews, was revived during last winter and spring. In the atmosphere that prevailed an outbreak might take place at any time. On May 1st there was a riot at Jaffa. Disturbances continued during the following days. *Attacks were made from Arab villages upon the Jewish colonies of Petah Tikvah and Chederah*. Troops were employed and suppressed the disturbances, and the attacks on the colonies were dispersed with considerable loss to the attackers. Martial law was proclaimed over the area affected, but much excitement prevailed for several days in Jaffa and the neighbouring districts, and for some weeks there was considerable unrest. 88 persons were killed and 238 injured, most of them slightly, in these disturbances, and there was much looting and destruction of property. There were no casualties among the troops. A number of persons were prosecuted for offences committed, and special Civil and Military Courts were established for their trial. The sentences inflicted included one of 13 years penal servitude, two of 10 years, one of 5 years, and 42 of less severity.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR





georgephillip said:


> Greedy Jews have done little else except "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" since 1917 with the aid of diplomatic cover and military aid from the reigning Empire of the day. Only devout slaves would fail to oppose such terrorist activities.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, you repeat the accusation.  


Greedy Jews have done little else except "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"

Can you substantiate the claim?  OR, at least explain to me how you see how one-fifth (or less) of the territories population managed to "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" which made four-fifths.


What Rights were taken away?  
And how?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> Peterf said:
> 
> 
> 
> It will become clear if you remember that Billo's idea of 'starting a conversation' is a tirade of vile abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't a very nice thing to say.
Click to expand...


Sam Kinison was male chauvinist, xenophobic, and homophobic.   He was not your kind of guy.   He was *my* kind of guy!


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> He got married and killed himself. See what happens when you get married!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he was the most monogamous of all the WWII leaders.  Everyone else had their stable of bitches and war groupies.  All Adolf had, was Eva.  And maybe his aunt, in his youth.
Click to expand...


The Swishy Swastiker had plenty of boytoys supplied by the Hitler Youth.


----------



## PrometheusBound

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Well!
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the exception of 1973, when did the Arabs initiate hostilities with Israel?
> BTW, your "might makes right" and the "right of conquest" expired in 1949. If you honestly believe Jews are above international law, you will need to find modern arguments to justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Do you want to start with the real Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Black Hand, or the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades of today?
> 
> Do you want to start with the 1948 conflict, or the call for a new Intifada today?
> 
> If you want to talk about being above the law, do you want to start with the suicide bombings, the piracy on the high seas, the various massacres, the hijackings of aircraft, armed attacks --- where do you want to start?
> 
> If you want to talk about international law, do you want to address all the various violations against organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens; OR, would you like to talk about the bomb makers like Samer Issawi, a member of the  Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, who was arrested by the Israeli army in Ramallah, for bomb making, during the Second Intifada?
> 
> How would you like to approach the issue?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


It is a sign of full-blown Dhimmitude that anyone would be anti-Zionist after 9/11.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhh... but Hitler wasn't taking-back his old spiritual and ancestral homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what excuse you use to justify your actions, acquiring land by force has been outlawed for the last 60 years.
> 
> But it seems Israel is determined to turn back the clock?
Click to expand...


Just as you have back to September 10, 2001.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Roudy said:


> Those arab army's went in to protect the civil rights of the indigenous arab population, that was being systematically stripped from them as more zionists migrated into the area. They were basically trying to do, what the British should have done, which was restore order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude you have no idea what you're talking about. Arabs in fact were the biggest deniers of the existence of Palestine or a Palestinian people. The main reason they attacked Israel was always and only to destroy THE JEWISH STATE and carve the proceeds up between themselves.
> 
> Proof of that is when Jordan and Egypt controlled West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967 not a single Arab or Palestinian mentioned the word "Palestine".
> 
> Let us hear what other Arabs have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> What other Arabs declared after the *Six-Day War*:
> 
> "There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
> - Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -
> 
> "You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
> - Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -
Click to expand...


It probably all belongs to the Kurds because Saladin took Jerusalem from the Crusaders.


----------



## Kondor3

PrometheusBound said:


> "..._It probably all belongs to the Kurds because Saladin took Jerusalem from the Crusaders._"



Belongs to the Kurds? No whey!


----------



## Billo_Really

PrometheusBound said:


> Just as you have back to September 10, 2001.


And your point is what?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Dude you have no idea what you're talking about. Arabs in fact were the biggest deniers of the existence of Palestine or a Palestinian people. The main reason they attacked Israel was always and only to destroy THE JEWISH STATE and carve the proceeds up between themselves.


The arabs attacked to preserve the "proceeds" arabs already had (and had been enjoying) for generations.



Roudy said:


> Proof of that is when Jordan and Egypt controlled West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967 not a single Arab or Palestinian mentioned the word "Palestine".


Let me get this straight, you're saying the reasons the arabs attacked in 1948, was because of what can found between the years  '48 to '67?

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?



Roudy said:


> Let us hear what other Arabs have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> What other Arabs declared after the *Six-Day War*:
> 
> "There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
> - Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -
> 
> "You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
> - Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -


Well, if you're  going to quote arabs, then I'm going to quote a zionist!

A famous humanist warning fellow zionists migrating into the area known as Palestine:



> _* the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives* ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination *...'
> - Ahad Ha'am _


That's why they attacked!


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude you have no idea what you're talking about. Arabs in fact were the biggest deniers of the existence of Palestine or a Palestinian people. The main reason they attacked Israel was always and only to destroy THE JEWISH STATE and carve the proceeds up between themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> The arabs attacked to preserve the "proceeds" arabs already had (and had been enjoying) for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of that is when Jordan and Egypt controlled West Bank and Gaza for 20 years from 1948 to 1967 not a single Arab or Palestinian mentioned the word "Palestine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me get this straight, you're saying the reasons the arabs attacked in 1948, was because of what can found between the years  '48 to '67?
> 
> Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let us hear what other Arabs have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> What other Arabs declared after the *Six-Day War*:
> 
> "There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
> - Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -
> 
> "You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
> - Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, if you're  going to quote arabs, then I'm going to quote a zionist!
> 
> A famous humanist warning fellow zionists migrating into the area known as Palestine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _* the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives* ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination *...'
> - Ahad Ha'am _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's why they attacked!
Click to expand...

Bill unreally:


> The arabs attacked to preserve the "proceeds" arabs already had (and had been enjoying) for generations.



The Arabs had nothing.  The land belonged to the Turkish Ottoman Empire for 700 years, and then after their collapse after WWI it was controlled by the British and French. 



> That's why they attacked!



No it's not.  Let me repeat, the *neighboring * Arab states attacked the newly formed state of Israel with the full intention of destroying it, not to create a Palestine.  After 1948 they ended up controlling the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years, but still no one uttered the word Palestine.  Perhaps because it would cause laughter.  The intention from the very beginning is to remove Jewish presence and control over those lands.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Then explain the UN sitting still for the acquisition by the Soviet Union of all of the terroritories that eventually comprised the Warsaw Pact (Poland, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Albania), and then installing friendly puppet governments in those lands to act as a large-scale buffer against The West.


That occured "during" WWII.




Kondor3 said:


> Then explain...
> 
> * Argentina, trying to take the Falklands
> * Iraq, trying to take Kuwait (_UN intervention_)
> * Morocco taking Western Sahara from the Spanish
> * North Vietnam taking South Vietnam
> * North Korea trying to take South Korea (_UN intervention_)
> * Indonesia taking East Timor from the Portugese
> * China, taking Tibet
> * Indonesia, taking Dutch New Guinea
> 
> ...very few of which triggered any sort of UN response, and most of which were left to the contestants to fight-out, and, in cases where the foreign aggressor won-out, the land-grabs were allowed to remain intact, without effective UN intervention.


Those were all illegal.  You even mentioned, the UN intervened in a couple of them.  Why do you think they did that?  It wasn't because they just happened to be bored that day?



Kondor3 said:


> If you believe that Territorial Conquest is a thing of the past, and that the UN Charter effectively guards against this, then you are quite mistaken - but, in reality, you know better, don't you?


Effectively "guarding" against that, requires the cooperation of all member states.  Cooperation, the member state of Israel, refuses to give.



Kondor3 said:


> Look at it this way... just about everybody else on the face of the planet managed to grab enough land to support themselves before this so-called and farcical Prohibition went into effect;


It's not a "farcical Prohibition", it's the basic principle of international law.  Have you ever heard of the Nuremburg Principles?



Kondor3 said:


> the Jews just came to the land-grab table after the game-clock had wound-down, and are determined to have their turn at-bat, in order to preserve their people.


There's nothing wrong with that, as long as it's done respecting the inalienable rights of the indigenous population of arabs living in that area for generations.



Kondor3 said:


> If we consider the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be a Civil War within the region known as Palestine, then, we can safely accord to that conflict the same UN-hands-off approach that we saw in Vietnam and other civil wars that have occurred since the end of WWII.


I'm sorry, but it's not "considered" a civil war.  

It is legally defined as a belligerent "occupation".  A war is between two opposing army's.  In the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, you have on one side, the most militarized country on the planet and on the other, an entire population of people that are not even allowed to have weapons to defend themselves.



Kondor3 said:


> Yes, we all understand the rationale behind it.


You just don't like it.



Kondor3 said:


> When most of the 'conquerers' listed above have surrendered their conquered territories and been sanctioned appropriately and paid compensation, then you will have a case.


I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.  IHL  treats war crimes, as separate entities from all other crimes.  They did this deliberately so no one can say, _"I'm just doing what he did! He got away with it, why can't I?"_  Crimes against humanity, are unacceptable at any time, by any one, for any reason.  Period.  There is no derrogoration for this.



Kondor3 said:


> A case, at least, in which consistent treatment across the board is on your side.


So you're saying "your side", is against "consistant treatment"?

You do realize all that talk of a "chosen" people, is bullshit, don't you?

Everyone is equal in the eyes of God.  Including the Pals.



Kondor3 said:


> No. Just determined to carve-out a homeland for themselves after 6,000,000 of them were slaughtered. Regardless of what the rest of the world (_who already have their land_) thinks. Determined, as well, to be treated no differently than any other Civil War in which the UN chooses not to intervene. This is an internal struggle between two parties for control of an entire region, not a land-grab between sovereign States, despite last year's UN General Assembly Johnny-come-lately sleight-of-hand about Palestinian Statehood.


Well, they way you're carving out that homeland, is by shitting on the memory of all those who perished during the Holocaust.  Because IHL, the United Nations, Nuremburg Principles and subsequent Geneva Conventions, have all been written and created to prevent another Holocaust.  So when you violate them, you are compromising their intent and making the lives of all Holocaust victims, to have died in vain.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Bill unreally:
> 
> The Arabs had nothing.  The land belonged to the Turkish Ottoman Empire for 700 years, and then after their collapse after WWI it was controlled by the British and French.
> 
> No it's not.  Let me repeat, the *neighboring * Arab states attacked the newly formed state of Israel with the full intention of destroying it, not to create a Palestine.  After 1948 they ended up controlling the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years, but still no one uttered the word Palestine.  Perhaps because it would cause laughter.  The intention from the very beginning is to remove Jewish presence and control over those lands.


It doesn't matter what they "utter".

You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bill unreally:
> 
> The Arabs had nothing.  The land belonged to the Turkish Ottoman Empire for 700 years, and then after their collapse after WWI it was controlled by the British and French.
> 
> No it's not.  Let me repeat, the *neighboring * Arab states attacked the newly formed state of Israel with the full intention of destroying it, not to create a Palestine.  After 1948 they ended up controlling the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years, but still no one uttered the word Palestine.  Perhaps because it would cause laughter.  The intention from the very beginning is to remove Jewish presence and control over those lands.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what they "utter".
> 
> You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
Click to expand...


I don't recall that ever being the case before Israel declared Independence


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bill unreally:
> 
> The Arabs had nothing.  The land belonged to the Turkish Ottoman Empire for 700 years, and then after their collapse after WWI it was controlled by the British and French.
> 
> No it's not.  Let me repeat, the *neighboring * Arab states attacked the newly formed state of Israel with the full intention of destroying it, not to create a Palestine.  After 1948 they ended up controlling the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years, but still no one uttered the word Palestine.  Perhaps because it would cause laughter.  The intention from the very beginning is to remove Jewish presence and control over those lands.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what they "utter".
> 
> You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
Click to expand...

The "people" already there weren't already there.  They were invaders and squatters from neighboring Arab lands mostly.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> The "people" already there weren't already there.  They were invaders and squatters from neighboring Arab lands mostly.


First off, migration records for that period clearly show the majority of people moving into the area were zionists, not arabs.







Palestinian arabs were already living there with Palestinian jews.  And of all the indigenous residents of that area, arabs made up 70% of the land owners.







So no, they didn't come in from other areas.  But I do think you did and I don't think the other area was on planet earth.  Because I've shown you the comments from a zionist living at that time, warning migrating jews not to "incur the rath of the natives", then saying how the zionists were treating them like shit and bragging about it, yet you keep on pushing that ridiculous story.  Even after I've shown you the number of people migrating into the area and the land records at that time, you completely refuse to alter your beliefs.  Face it, you've been shown evidence that refutes your claim.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> I don't recall that ever being the case before Israel declared Independence


What do you think created all the hostility?

People don't get mad for no reason!


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall that ever being the case before Israel declared Independence
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think created all the hostility?
> 
> People don't get mad for no reason!
Click to expand...


I might have misunderstood your original post.

You're saying that when the Zionists arrived to Mandatory Palestine, that they automatically had more right then the Palestinian Arabs ?


----------



## Peterf

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall that ever being the case before Israel declared Independence
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think created all the hostility?
> 
> People don't get mad for no reason!
Click to expand...


I've heard that sort of argument before:  "The Jews must be really bad people, otherwise the Germans would not have wanted to kill them all."    It never worked with me.

People do get mad for any reason and no reason.    Particularly Muslims.   Many went mad with rage because  a writer called Salman Rushdie wrote a book they didn't like.


----------



## Billo_Really

Peterf said:


> I've heard that sort of argument before:  "The Jews must be really bad people, otherwise the Germans would not have wanted to kill them all."    It never worked with me.


That was not the argument I was making and that has nothing to do with this discussion.  And you interjecting that into this discussion, shows just how disengenous you are and to what lengths you'll go to make emotional pleas to the reader that arabs are bad.




Peterf said:


> People do get mad for any reason and no reason.    Particularly Muslims.   Many went mad with rage because  a writer called Salman Rushdie wrote a book they didn't like.


I thought it was ridiculous they went off over some book, but it does prove they went off over external forces.  That they didn't get that pissed for no reason at all.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> I might have misunderstood your original post.
> 
> You're saying that when the Zionists arrived to Mandatory Palestine, that they automatically had more right then the Palestinian Arabs ?


I'm saying the opposite of that.  That they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Arabs who were already living there. And for that matter, they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Jews who were already living there.

I don't know what so confusing about this very simple principle?  If you moved into a neighborhood, would you think you had more rights than the current homeowners in said neighborhood?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might have misunderstood your original post.
> 
> You're saying that when the Zionists arrived to Mandatory Palestine, that they automatically had more right then the Palestinian Arabs ?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying the opposite of that.  That they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Arabs who were already living there. *And for that matter, they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Jews who were already living there.
> *
> I don't know what so confusing about this very simple principle?  If you moved into a neighborhood, would you think you had more rights than the current homeowners in said neighborhood?
Click to expand...


Indeed, the Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, Billo_Really, toastman, _et al,_

I hear the complaint, but I don't see substance.



P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might have misunderstood your original post.
> 
> You're saying that when the Zionists arrived to Mandatory Palestine, that they automatically had more right then the Palestinian Arabs ?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying the opposite of that.  That they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Arabs who were already living there. *And for that matter, they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Jews who were already living there.
> *
> I don't know what so confusing about this very simple principle?  If you moved into a neighborhood, would you think you had more rights than the current homeowners in said neighborhood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews.
Click to expand...

*(QUESTION)*

What rights are being trampled?
What specific rights are we talking about?

v/r
R


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..."



Your 'defense' of the Soviet Union's grab for territory - and it being allowed, post-WWII, to retain its conquests via subterfuge and subversion - by saying that the land was seized during WWII, is on legal ice as thin as that on which the Israelis stand.

A solid case can be made that the Soviets capitalized upon their conquests after June 1945 (when the UN Charter was signed) in violation of the land-grab provisions of the UN Charter and in violation of their trusteeship of lands liberated from German occupation.

But that would get us too far off-topic; we can have at that, another time.

----------

Yes... all of those examples I gave (Argentina, Vietnam, etc.) were illegal, but only a couple of them triggered a UN response.

The UN left the rest to fend for themselves; including instance(s) of civil war.

My point is, the UN enforces that Law very arbitrarily and inconsistently.

----------



> "..._It's not a 'farcical Prohibition', it's the basic principle of international law. Have you ever heard of the Nuremburg Principles?_..."



If a 'prohibition' is enforced sporadically, arbitrarily and inconsistently, then, it's a farce; I don't much care how 'foundational' the principle is, nor what label gets hung on it.



> "..._There's nothing wrong with that, as long as it's done respecting the inalienable rights of the indigenous population of arabs living in that area for generations_..."



There's nothing wrong with that ( the Jews carving-out their own homeland ) so long...?

For all practical purposes, it was impossible for the Jews to carve-out their own homeland without setting aside the land-ownership right of many native Muslim-Arab Palestinians.

The Jews believe they hold a Prior Claim to the Land and they took matters into their own hands in pursuit of that claim.

They pursued that claim on the battlefield and were successful.

The UN accepted this fiat accompli in its recognition of the State of Israel.

All of the post facto side-chatter by the UN about the rights of Palestinians have proven to be just that; side-chatter, background noise that failed to yield what it was intended to.

We are now long-since past that.

You are entirely correct in your analysis of former legal status and violations.

However, victory on the battlefield, failure to intervene decades ago while there was still time, and subsequent events and custom and usage and possession, have all served to negate those old status and violations, sufficient to render them inoperative and un-enforceable.

Translation: they no longer matter enough to excite the imagination of the world or to trigger a UN interventional response to belatedly enforce old status and understandings and sanctions. They no longer matter.



> "..._I'm sorry, but it's not 'considered' a civil war_..."



A solid case can be made that it is exactly that;  a war between indigenous population elements; reinforced by outsiders on both sides; a state of affairs in which the outsiders on one side (Israel) decided to remain in-place and to reside within, after their initial victories.



> "..._It is legally defined as a belligerent 'occupation'_..."



Given that the UN is largely a Toothless Old Ladies Debating Society with respect to both Israel and a great many other troubles that disturb the peace, I don't think that the UN's anti-Israel -bias -based classification is causing the Israelis to lose much sleep.

For our purposes here, Israel's turning-over to the Palestinians' own militias and police, of the peacekeeping within both the West Bank and Gaza, serve to largely set aside the UN's classification; in large part, if not entirely.



> "..._A war is between two opposing army's_..."



Or between an Army and an Organized Resistance Movement.



> "..._In the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, you have on one side, the most militarized country on the planet and on the other, an entire population of people that are not even allowed to have weapons to defend themselves_..."



We have, on one hand, the IDF, and, on the other hand, the Palestinian militias (Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah) - their Oragnized Resistance Movement(s).



> "..._I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.  IHL treats war crimes, as separate entities from all other crimes. They did this deliberately so no one can say, 'I'm just doing what he did! He got away with it, why can't I?' Crimes against humanity, are unacceptable at any time, by any one, for any reason. Period. There is no derrogoration for this_..."



You seem to be operating under the impression that the ICC or other authority is going to effectively prosecute Israel for IHL violations. The Israelis themselves are sufficiently adept at wrapping their actions in a cloak of marginal compliance and the US and other Western friends give them sufficient political cover to ensure that such efforts will be ineffective.



> "...So you're saying "your side", is against 'consistant treatment'?..."



Nope. I'm saying that the UN and other international bodies have already created a track record of lax and arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement and that the Israelis and their friends merely need to point to that track record in order to derail such efforts against Israel before they gain sufficient traction so as to allow such enforcement against them. Even if you're right, it doesn't really matter. Nothing is going to come of it.



> "..._You do realize all that talk of a 'chosen' people, is bullshit, don't you?_..."



Personally, I've never put much stock in that; thinking, instead, that if there IS a God, and if that God ever conveyed such an idea (the Jews being a Chosen People), that that Choice was probably merely a Choice to introduce Monotheism to the Peoples of the Mediterranean Basin and Europe, rather than a Choice to make them Masters of the Planet.



> "..._Everyone is equal in the eyes of God.  Including the Pals_..."



True. And, insofar as the Israelis are concerned, those Palestinians can live as Equal Children of God, in some place other than the newly-restored Jewish Homeland.



> "..._Well, they way you're carving out that homeland, is by shitting on the memory of all those who perished during the Holocaust_..."



Disagree. Reasoning follows, below.



> "..._Because IHL, the United Nations, Nuremburg Principles and subsequent Geneva Conventions, have all been written and created to prevent another Holocaust_..."



Nonsense. The Jews have suffered thousands of years of persecution at the hands of Christians, Muslims and Pagans, and have been 'protected' by dozens of Treaties and Assurances and Declarations and policies over time, only to be ultimately betrayed.

None of those were created to prevent another Holocaust, but for the preservation of the general peace of the world, with the Jews as collateral beneficiaries here-and-there.



> "..._So when you violate them, you are compromising their intent and making the lives of all Holocaust victims, to have died in vain._"



Only within the realm of self-serving sophistry.

In truth, could we conjure the shades or spirits of the Holocaust Dead, and bring them up to speed on the existence and history of the State of Israel and the Jewish-Muslim conflict, and then ask them whether aggressive pursuit of a Jewish Homeland somehow diminished their memory and their sacrifice, I am guessing that the average Holocaust Shade would say something more akin to:

"_Remember the songs we sang on the way to the gas chambers? 'Next year in Jerusalem'? The only way our lives and sacrifice would be wasted and the only way in which you would insult our memory is by allowing Eretz Yisrael to fall again. Stay on course, Remain strong. We are watching you, we are with you, and we bless you._"

But someone with a greater stake in the Jewish/Israeli perspective may be able to do a better job of this than I just did.

IMHO.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might have misunderstood your original post.
> 
> You're saying that when the Zionists arrived to Mandatory Palestine, that they automatically had more right then the Palestinian Arabs ?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying the opposite of that.  That they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Arabs who were already living there. *And for that matter, they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Jews who were already living there.
> *
> I don't know what so confusing about this very simple principle?  If you moved into a neighborhood, would you think you had more rights than the current homeowners in said neighborhood?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Zionists violated the rights of the native Jews.
Click to expand...


More nonsense claims without backing them up. Typical Tinnie Talk.

It has a ring to it !

*T*ypical *T*innie *T*alk


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might have misunderstood your original post.
> 
> You're saying that when the Zionists arrived to Mandatory Palestine, that they automatically had more right then the Palestinian Arabs ?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying the opposite of that.  That they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Arabs who were already living there. And for that matter, they didn't have more rights than Palestinian Jews who were already living there.
> 
> I don't know what so confusing about this very simple principle?  If you moved into a neighborhood, would you think you had more rights than the current homeowners in said neighborhood?
Click to expand...


But that IS what you're saying !!

You claim that when the Zionist immigrated there, that they had more rights then the natives , but that they shouldn't have had.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Kondor3 said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._It probably all belongs to the Kurds because Saladin took Jerusalem from the Crusaders._"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belongs to the Kurds? No whey!
Click to expand...


They have just as much claim to the land of Solomon and Jesus as any other Muzzies have.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> But that IS what you're saying !!
> 
> You claim that when the Zionist immigrated there, that they had more rights then the natives , but that they shouldn't have had.


That's not what I'm saying.  I haven't said in any way, they had more rights than the indigenous population, whether that be arab or jew.  I'm saying they "acted" like they did and everyone who defends them "acts" like they did, but the reality is, they didn't.

It's not that they "shouldn't" have; it's that they "didn't" have.

You can claim all you want that they "did" have, I have no problem with that.  But at least be honest about my position.  Don't twist it into something I didn't say.  There's nothing wrong with saying, _"I understand your position, I just don't agree with it"._

But to say, I said they had more rights, is just not true.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> But that IS what you're saying !!
> 
> You claim that when the Zionist immigrated there, that they had more rights then the natives , but that they shouldn't have had.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what I'm saying.  I haven't said in any way, they had more rights than the indigenous population, whether that be arab or jew.  I'm saying they "acted" like they did and everyone who defends them "acts" like they did, but the reality is, they didn't.
> 
> It's not that they "shouldn't" have; it's that they "didn't" have.
> 
> You can claim all you want that they "did" have, I have no problem with that.  But at least be honest about my position.  Don't twist it into something I didn't say.  There's nothing wrong with saying, _"I understand your position, I just don't agree with it"._
> 
> But to say, I said they had more rights, is just not true.
Click to expand...


But I'm not twisting what you're saying, I just misunderstood what you said in your post "You cannot move into a place and AUTOMATICALLY have more rights than the natives"

Anyway, this post clarified your position, I got it now.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> What rights are being trampled?
> What specific rights are we talking about?


When zionists stood up in 1948 and declared Israel a "jewish state", it automatically disenfranchised all the indigenous arabs living in that area and denied them their inalienable right to self-determination.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What rights are being trampled?
> What specific rights are we talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> When zionists stood up in 1948 and declared Israel a "jewish state", it automatically disenfranchised all the indigenous arabs living in that area and denied them their inalienable right to self-determination.
Click to expand...


Read Tinmores post again that Rocco quoted


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall that ever being the case before Israel declared Independence
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think created all the hostility?
> 
> People don't get mad for no reason!
Click to expand...


The Arabs don't need any reason.   Like snakes and sharks, they are born bloodthirsty.   Get rid of the Jews and their addiction to violence will drive them into sectarian violence.   Let one sect win and the desert bandits will go tribe against tribe or invade their Arab neighbors.   This is their history, this is their DNA.


----------



## PrometheusBound

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall that ever being the case before Israel declared Independence
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think created all the hostility?
> 
> People don't get mad for no reason!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I might have misunderstood your original post.
> 
> You're saying that when the Zionists arrived to Mandatory Palestine, that they automatically had more right then the Palestinian Arabs ?
Click to expand...


The Arabs had forfeited their rights by not taking their homeland back from the Turks, perhaps because it was never a homeland but a pit stop for desert nomads.   The British owned the land after ending the 600-year Turkish-led jihad.   They had the right because of their sacrifice for Western Civilization and gave the practically barren territory to the Zionists as a decoy against the next jihad, which erupted with the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Peterf said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall that ever being the case before Israel declared Independence
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think created all the hostility?
> 
> People don't get mad for no reason!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've heard that sort of argument before:  "The Jews must be really bad people, otherwise the Germans would not have wanted to kill them all."    It never worked with me.
> 
> People do get mad for any reason and no reason.    Particularly Muslims.   Many went mad with rage because  a writer called Salman Rushdie wrote a book they didn't like.
Click to expand...


Don't forget those killer Danish cartoons they massacred dozens over!


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Your 'defense' of the Soviet Union's grab for territory - and it being allowed, post-WWII, to retain its conquests via subterfuge and subversion - by saying that the land was seized during WWII, is on legal ice as thin as that on which the Israelis stand.
> 
> A solid case can be made that the Soviets capitalized upon their conquests after June 1945 (when the UN Charter was signed) in violation of the land-grab provisions of the UN Charter and in violation of their trusteeship of lands liberated from German occupation.
> 
> But that would get us too far off-topic; we can have at that, another time.


I wasn't defending their actions.  I was saying that occured prior to the creation of the UN and IHL.



Kondor3 said:


> Yes... all of those examples I gave (Argentina, Vietnam, etc.) were illegal, but only a couple of them triggered a UN response.
> 
> The UN left the rest to fend for themselves; including instance(s) of civil war.
> 
> My point is, the UN enforces that Law very arbitrarily and inconsistently.


That's because member states refuse to honor their "word", when they are an "interested party" of a particular issue.

But that doesn't negate the law. 



Kondor3 said:


> If a 'prohibition' is enforced sporadically, arbitrarily and inconsistently, then, it's a farce; I don't much care how 'foundational' the principle is, nor what label gets hung on it.


How convenient.



Kondor3 said:


> There's nothing wrong with that ( the Jews carving-out their own homeland ) so long...?
> 
> For all practical purposes, it was impossible for the Jews to carve-out their own homeland without setting aside the land-ownership right of many native Muslim-Arab Palestinians.


Yes it was.  And they certainly didn't have to treat the arabs like garbage.


Kondor3 said:


> The Jews believe they hold a Prior Claim to the Land and they took matters into their own hands in pursuit of that claim.


What happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.


Kondor3 said:


> They pursued that claim on the battlefield and were successful.
> 
> The UN accepted this fiat accompli in its recognition of the State of Israel.
> 
> All of the post facto side-chatter by the UN about the rights of Palestinians have proven to be just that; side-chatter, background noise that failed to yield what it was intended to.
> 
> We are now long-since past that.


Let me get this straight, it's okay to point to the UN when they "recognize" Israel, but it's not okay to point to the UN when they "recognize" the Palestinian's?  One is an acceptance of "this fiat accompli", the other is just mere "chatter"?



Kondor3 said:


> You are entirely correct in your analysis of former legal status and violations.


It's not former.



Kondor3 said:


> However, victory on the battlefield, failure to intervene decades ago while there was still time, and subsequent events and custom and usage and possession, have all served to negate those old status and violations, sufficient to render them inoperative and un-enforceable.


They're not negated, they're just not respected.



Kondor3 said:


> Translation: they no longer matter enough to excite the imagination of the world or to trigger a UN interventional response to belatedly enforce old status and understandings and sanctions. They no longer matter.


Not yet.



Kondor3 said:


> A solid case can be made that it is exactly that;  a war between indigenous population elements; reinforced by outsiders on both sides; a state of affairs in which the outsiders on one side (Israel) decided to remain in-place and to reside within, after their initial victories.


The occupation, is not a debatable issue.



Kondor3 said:


> Given that the UN is largely a Toothless Old Ladies Debating Society with respect to both Israel and a great many other troubles that disturb the peace, I don't think that the UN's anti-Israel -bias -based classification is causing the Israelis to lose much sleep.


Your personal opinion of the UN has nothing to do with IHL.



Kondor3 said:


> For our purposes here, Israel's turning-over to the Palestinians' own militias and police, of the peacekeeping within both the West Bank and Gaza, serve to largely set aside the UN's classification; in large part, if not entirely.


There's no "turning-over" of anything, it's not Israel's decision to make.  They just need to get the fuck off land that isn't there's.  They'll either do that willingly, or eventually be forced to.  Just like Poland.



Kondor3 said:


> Or between an Army and an Organized Resistance Movement.


Resistance to a occupational force, is not a war. 



Kondor3 said:


> We have, on one hand, the IDF, and, on the other hand, the Palestinian militias (Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah) - their Oragnized Resistance Movement(s).


Hezbollah is in Lebanon and Fatah is an Israeli bitch organization.



Kondor3 said:


> You seem to be operating under the impression that the ICC or other authority is going to effectively prosecute Israel for IHL violations. The Israelis themselves are sufficiently adept at wrapping their actions in a cloak of marginal compliance and the US and other Western friends give them sufficient political cover to ensure that such efforts will be ineffective.


That's irrelevant.  Israel agreed to honor the UN Charter when it became a member, but their word doesn't mean shit.  They don't walk their talk.



Kondor3 said:


> Nope. I'm saying that the UN and other international bodies have already created a track record of lax and arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement and that the Israelis and their friends merely need to point to that track record in order to derail such efforts against Israel before they gain sufficient traction so as to allow such enforcement against them. Even if you're right, it doesn't really matter. Nothing is going to come of it.


Whether something comes from it or not, doesn't change the illegality of the act.



Kondor3 said:


> True. And, insofar as the Israelis are concerned, those Palestinians can live as Equal Children of God, in some place other than the newly-restored Jewish Homeland.


That's called "ethnic cleansing".  60 years ago, they called it the "final solution".



Kondor3 said:


> Nonsense. The Jews have suffered thousands of years of persecution at the hands of Christians, Muslims and Pagans, and have been 'protected' by dozens of Treaties and Assurances and Declarations and policies over time, only to be ultimately betrayed.
> 
> None of those were created to prevent another Holocaust, but for the preservation of the general peace of the world, with the Jews as collateral beneficiaries here-and-there.


"Aggression" is defined in the Nuremburg Principles as the highest crime a nation can commit, because it has the collective evil of all the rest.  That includes the factors that led to the Holocaust.



Kondor3 said:


> Only within the realm of self-serving sophistry.
> 
> In truth, could we conjure the shades or spirits of the Holocaust Dead, and bring them up to speed on the existence and history of the State of Israel and the Jewish-Muslim conflict, and then ask them whether aggressive pursuit of a Jewish Homeland somehow diminished their memory and their sacrifice, I am guessing that the average Holocaust Shade would say something more akin to:
> 
> "_Remember the songs we sang on the way to the gas chambers? 'Next year in Jerusalem'? The only way our lives and sacrifice would be wasted and the only way in which you would insult our memory is by allowing Eretz Yisrael to fall again. Stay on course, Remain strong. We are watching you, we are with you, and we bless you._"
> 
> But someone with a greater stake in the Jewish/Israeli perspective may be able to do a better job of this than I just did.
> 
> IMHO.


If you could conjure up all those Holocaust victims, they would say to you, _"Why are you treating the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated us?"_
_"You demonize them at every turn"
"You enact laws that make them 2nd class citizens"
"You think nothing of bulldozing their homes, fields and businesses"
"You lock up thousands who've committed no crimes"
"You blame them for all your problems"_​_ "It was wrong when the nazis did that to us, it's still wrong for you to do that to them"._

That's what they'd say!


----------



## PrometheusBound

The UN is a petting zoo for decadent Hate Whitey multiculties.   The League of Nations proved that such an organization never should have been formed.

Israel doesn't owe its existence to the illegitimate UN.   It owes its existence to the British Mandate and the will, intelligence, and bravery of the Zionists who forced the resurgent Appeasement Generation of British leaders to honor the promise made by the Churchill Generation.


----------



## Billo_Really

PrometheusBound said:


> The UN is a petting zoo for decadent Hate Whitey multiculties.   The League of Nations proved that such an organization never should have been formed.
> 
> Israel doesn't owe its existence to the illegitimate UN.   It owes its existence to the British Mandate and the will, intelligence, and bravery of the Zionists who forced the resurgent Appeasement Generation of British leaders to honor the promise made by the Churchill Generation.


Are you aware that the League of Nations transferred all its authority (which includes the Mandate) over to the UN?

And did you also know that the Mandate had a caveat that zionists could have a jewish homeland in Palestine, as long as they didn't compromise the rights of all the non-jews living in the area?


----------



## RoccoR

*et al,*

OK, old man syndrome!  Where are we now?  What's the allegation?

v/r
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> *et al,*
> 
> OK, old man syndrome!  Where are we now?  What's the allegation?
> 
> v/r
> R



Seems like we're back in 1948 again, discussing the legality and morality of the Jews declaring Independence and blaming everything negative that happened to the Palestinian Arabs on Israel


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> *et al,*
> 
> OK, old man syndrome!


I don't know what the fuck that means.




RoccoR said:


> Where are we now?


Same place we were 47 years ago with an illegal occupation that needs to end.  There's nothing to negotiate, nothing to agree on, just get your occupational forces and all those settler insurgents and completely vacate the Golan Heights, Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem.  That's the only option on the table.

I would think after almost a half-century with no country on the planet  recognizing Israel's right to that land, it would be obvious.  Israel needs to catch the clue, it is not your land and it  never will be your land.




RoccoR said:


> What's the allegation?


Israel is in violation of international law and doesn't give a damn about human rights.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are we now?
> 
> 
> 
> _Same place we were 47 years ago with an illegal occupation that needs to end.  There's nothing to negotiate, nothing to agree on, just get your occupational forces and all those settler insurgents and completely vacate the Golan Heights, Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. That's the only option on the table_..."
Click to expand...

No.

That's the only answer on the table.

No surrender of the Golan.

No surrender of Jerusalem.

No surrender of the West Bank (beyond some minor and interim concessions on local autonomy).

No surrender of Gaza (beyond some minor and interim concessions on local autonomy).

Don't like that answer?

Then you must come and take them back by force of arms, if you can.

(_one US-sponsored Security Council Veto on Intervention comin' right up_)

(_one US military intervention to aid Israel in case they start to lose, at US taxpayer expense [thank you for your contribution], sittin' on the back burner, already planned and warmed-up, ready to sortie_)

Meanwhile, what's left of Rump Palestine continues to fragment and shrink, as a largely detached world continues to turn a blind eye, as it has throughout most of that timeframe.

Brave words and legal tom-fool-ery aside... the Battle for Palestine is long over... the Muslim-Arabs lost... the Israeli-Jews won.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *et al,*
> 
> OK, old man syndrome!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what the fuck that means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are we now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same place we were 47 years ago with an illegal occupation that needs to end.  There's nothing to negotiate, nothing to agree on, just get your occupational forces and all those settler insurgents and completely vacate the Golan Heights, Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem.  That's the only option on the table.
> 
> I would think after almost a half-century with no country on the planet  recognizing Israel's right to that land, it would be obvious.  Israel needs to catch the clue, it is not your land and it  never will be your land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the allegation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is in violation of international law and doesn't give a damn about human rights.
Click to expand...


LOL in what world are you living in ?

You really think the Israelis are going to surrender to the great nation of Palestine, and just pick up and leave ??


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are we now?
> 
> 
> 
> _Same place we were 47 years ago with an illegal occupation that needs to end.  There's nothing to negotiate, nothing to agree on, just get your occupational forces and all those settler insurgents and completely vacate the Golan Heights, Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. That's the only option on the table_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> That's the only answer on the table.
> 
> No surrender of the Golan.
> 
> No surrender of Jerusalem.
> 
> No surrender of the West Bank.
> 
> No surrender of Gaza.
> 
> Don't like that answer?
> 
> Then you must come and take them back, if you can.
> 
> Meanwhile, what's left of Rump Palestine continues to fragment and shrink, as a largely disinterested world continues to turn a blind eye, as it has throughout most of that timeframe.
Click to expand...


I don't know about that "disinterested world" part.  When Arabs are killed by the dozens in Iraq or Syria, the world is disinterested, because they were killed by other Arabs.  But anything that happens in Israel/Palestine/the Holy Land interests the world out of all proportion, since it involves the Jews.  Take this Board as an example. Most of the posters here have never set foot in Israel or even met a Jew in their lives, yet they are all experts on this particular situation in the world scene.


----------



## Kondor3

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Same place we were 47 years ago with an illegal occupation that needs to end.  There's nothing to negotiate, nothing to agree on, just get your occupational forces and all those settler insurgents and completely vacate the Golan Heights, Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. That's the only option on the table_..."
> 
> 
> 
> No. That's the only answer on the table. No surrender of the Golan. No surrender of Jerusalem. No surrender of the West Bank. No surrender of Gaza. Don't like that answer? Then you must come and take them back, if you can. Meanwhile, what's left of Rump Palestine continues to fragment and shrink, as a largely disinterested world continues to turn a blind eye, as it has throughout most of that timeframe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know about that "disinterested world" part.  When Arabs are killed by the dozens in Iraq or Syria, the world is disinterested, because they were killed by other Arabs.  But anything that happens in Israel/Palestine/the Holy Land interests the world out of all proportion, since it involves the Jews.  Take this Board as an example. Most of the posters here have never set foot in Israel or even met a Jew in their lives, yet they are all experts on this particular situation in the world scene.
Click to expand...

Yep.

I edited my post before I saw that you'd already quoted it.

I changed that from 'disterested' to 'detached'.

'Detached', as in: not sufficiently 'vested' to participate in an Armed Intervention.

If a nation is not sufficiently roused to go to war, it is 'detached', in the context of war and peace and literal enforcement of international law by force of arms.

Translation: outside the domain of parts of Islam, nobody feels like going to war against Israel over a handful of crazy pissant Palestinians who have terrorized innocents outside their own theater of war for decades.

And that isn't going to change anytime soon.

That was the gist of where I was going with that.

As to never having stepped-foot in Israel, hell, I'm just as guilty of that as anyone else.

As to having met a Jew - my sister married one, and he and his extended family are nicely integrated into our own extended family and mix well - including talk of politics, etc. He has family outside Tel Aviv. What little feedback I get is third-hand (Tel Aviv to the bro-in-law to me) and one-sided, but I always make allowances for such in my own thinking (and posting) and don't let that drive my own contributions.

That third-hand info comes in handy during rational discussions about practical possibilities, but when the '_My Way or the Highway_' godhood credentials surface on the opposite side of the fence - especially when their track-record and poker-hand are so weak - the counterpointing becomes less cerebral and more viscerally enjoyable.

Personally, I have no answers - but the trends are there for all to see, and the likely outcomes are mere extensions of cold, hard, calculating logic.


----------



## RoccoR

*et al,*

Yeah, OK!



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, old man syndrome!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what the fuck that means.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*

You need a little humor in here.



			
				Definition said:
			
		

> 1. Old man syndrome
> The condition elderly people suffer in the presence of younger people. Symptoms include but are not limited to refusal to lose to a younger person, refusal of being wrong, refusal of being at fault, and the urge to use age as justification for their actions, decisions, and opinions.
> 
> *SOURCE:* Urban Disctionary





RoccoR said:


> Where are we now?


Same place we were 47 years ago with an illegal occupation that needs to end.  There's nothing to negotiate, nothing to agree on, just get your occupational forces and all those settler insurgents and completely vacate the Golan Heights, Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem.  That's the only option on the table.

I would think after almost a half-century with no country on the planet  recognizing Israel's right to that land, it would be obvious.  Israel needs to catch the clue, it is not your land and it  never will be your land.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the allegation?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is in violation of international law and doesn't give a damn about human rights.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Finally, a straight forward allegation.  

I make the assumption here that we are talking about the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The State of Israel has not annexed or even attempted to annex any portion of the State of Palestine declared independent in 1988.  The State of Israel has established such a set of barriers as to improve local and regional security conditions.

Israel seems resolved to undertake measures to prevent and combat HoAP efforts, in particular by denying access to the means to carry out their attacks, to their targets and to the desired impact of their attacks:


Restrain the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States, to include the State of Israel.


The State of Israel, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens - established such controls as to facilitate these objective.


To prevent Piracy of vessels on the High Seas and murder of noncombatants.
To prevent launching of rockets at noncombatants.
To prevent Hijacking of commercial airliners and the murder of noncombatants.
To prevent the assault by suicide bombers and the murder of noncombatants.
To prevent the assembly and distribution of bombs and bomb making material used to murder noncombatants.
To prevent the attack Israel's Embassies, Interests, And Officials Worldwide - And The Interests Of Its Allies

*(TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE)*

Israel does not deny that it has allowed parts of its own civilian population into the West Bank; to apply political pressure on the defiant HoAP government to sue for peace.

Israel, as the Occupying Power, in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 of GCIV, has imposed penalties against protected persons guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons.

Israel has arrested or neutralized persons who intended to do harm the Occupying Power, noncombatants or other innocence, providing such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.

Israel does not ignore such Human Rights obligations that have not been taken advantage of and manipulated to cause harm to Israel.  However, it appears that the State of Israel does not grant the HoAP the right to obtain weapons and money people to wage an armed struggle.  Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy, Jihadist and Fedayeen, or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the GCIV (Article 5).

Israel does not deny that where such HoAP private property was found to be used with intent to do harm to the Occupying Power, destruction was rendered absolutely necessary by military operations (Article 53).

SO, which particular Human Rights violations did you want to discuss?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

Your posts are so disjointed and hard to follow, I don't know why I respond to them.  It's like you deliberately make them is such away, that it takes extra work to weed out your point and respond to it.  You include all these unecessary salutations, fragment my post and then do a data dump and call it a day!



RoccoR said:


> Finally, a straight forward allegation.
> 
> I make the assumption here that we are talking about the West Bank and Gaza Strip.


There's no reason to assume.  I stated the areas in my post and you're missing two.



RoccoR said:


> The State of Israel has not annexed or even attempted to annex any portion of the State of Palestine declared independent in 1988.


Tell that to all the settlements they built in the West Bank.  And you're starting the clock at the wrong time.  1967 is the proper starting point.



RoccoR said:


> The State of Israel has established such a set of barriers as to improve local and regional security conditions.


Those barriers are the cause of all the violence.



RoccoR said:


> Israel seems resolved to undertake measures to prevent and combat HoAP efforts, in particular by denying access to the means to carry out their attacks, to their targets and to the desired impact of their attacks:


Everyone has the right to resist the foreign occupation of their land.



RoccoR said:


> The State of Israel, in accordance with our obligations under international law...


 Israel doesn't do shit in accordance with international law. 



RoccoR said:


> Israel does not deny that it has allowed parts of its own civilian population into the West Bank


That's illegal, according to IHL.



RoccoR said:


> Israel, as the Occupying Power, in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 of GCIV, has imposed penalties against protected persons guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons.


Is fishing and farming, acts of espionage?

Why are Palestinian's being shot at by the IDF, when they are farming and fishing?



RoccoR said:


> Israel has arrested or neutralized persons who intended to do harm the Occupying Power, noncombatants or other innocence, providing such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.


Administrative detention, is a war crime.




RoccoR said:


> SO, which particular Human Rights violations did you want to discuss?


I stated that above in my post.  Why are you asking me that now? 

This one got me particularly irritated...


RoccoR said:


> To prevent Piracy of vessels on the High Seas and murder of noncombatants.


How do you have the nerve to list something like that, after what Israel did to the Mavi Mamara?  They borded a vessel in international waters and summarily executed a 19 year old American.  You don't call that piracy?


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I don't know about that "disinterested world" part.  When Arabs are killed by the dozens in Iraq or Syria, the world is disinterested, because they were killed by other Arabs.  But anything that happens in Israel/Palestine/the Holy Land interests the world out of all proportion, since it involves the Jews.  Take this Board as an example. Most of the posters here have never set foot in Israel or even met a Jew in their lives, yet they are all experts on this particular situation in the world scene.


You don't have to be a chicken to know an egg.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> No.
> 
> That's the only answer on the table.
> 
> No surrender of the Golan.
> 
> No surrender of Jerusalem.
> 
> No surrender of the West Bank (beyond some minor and interim concessions on local autonomy).
> 
> No surrender of Gaza (beyond some minor and interim concessions on local autonomy).
> 
> Don't like that answer?
> 
> Then you must come and take them back by force of arms, if you can.
> 
> (_one US-sponsored Security Council Veto on Intervention comin' right up_)
> 
> (_one US military intervention to aid Israel in case they start to lose, at US taxpayer expense [thank you for your contribution], sittin' on the back burner, already planned and warmed-up, ready to sortie_)
> 
> Meanwhile, what's left of Rump Palestine continues to fragment and shrink, as a largely detached world continues to turn a blind eye, as it has throughout most of that timeframe.
> 
> Brave words and legal tom-fool-ery aside... the Battle for Palestine is long over... the Muslim-Arabs lost... the Israeli-Jews won.


Not if I was President.  I'd end this thing in 90 days.

First I'd stop all weapons shipments to Israel.
Than I'd freeze all Israeli assets in  US banks.
Then I'd outlaw AIPAC.
Then I'd submit a resolution to the UNSC telling Israel they got 90 days to get the fuck off Palestinian land.
On the 91st day, I'd send in the marines and drive those god-damn Israeli's back to Israel.
Then I'd set up a DMZ along the Green Line and shoot any mother-fucker that enters it from either side.​ 
Problem solved.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> But I'm not twisting what you're saying, I just misunderstood what you said in your post "You cannot move into a place and AUTOMATICALLY have more rights than the natives"
> 
> Anyway, this post clarified your position, I got it now.


Thank you.

I myself, have been guilty of that many times and it's not something I'll bust your balls over.


----------



## Billo_Really

PrometheusBound said:


> The Arabs don't need any reason.   Like snakes and sharks, they are born bloodthirsty.   Get rid of the Jews and their addiction to violence will drive them into sectarian violence.   Let one sect win and the desert bandits will go tribe against tribe or invade their Arab neighbors.   This is their history, this is their DNA.


You're nuts!  There's never been a violent baby born in the history of this planet.

They are taught to hate and you're a pretty good teacher of that.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> LOL in what world are you living in ?
> 
> You really think the Israelis are going to surrender to the great nation of Palestine, and just pick up and leave ??


Respecting international law is not surrendering.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..._Not if I was President. I'd end this thing in 90 days_..."


But you're not President.

And you won't be ending this.

Neither will anybody who thinks like you in this context.

Next slide, please.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> But you're not President.
> 
> And you won't be ending this.
> 
> Neither will anybody who thinks like you in this context.
> 
> Next slide, please.


I'm sorry sir, you're gonna have to leave the theatre, we're getting complaints from the other patrons.


----------



## Beachboy

American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly  established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of  vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the  enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of  the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders  of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the  specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same  beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds  leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture,  offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and  circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and  violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine  solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its  most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena,  the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that  Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have  succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it.  Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay






​ 

Excellent thread!  As a protestant, a Presbyterian, to become a member  or our church we had to attend a Roman Catholic Mass, and a Jewish  Synagog.

 Got to tell you.  You do not hear much from us Presbyterians, but we  are right there supporting Israel.  It is just common sense based upon  the facts.  (With 1,952,287 members and 21,064 ordained ministers in 10,657 congregations at the end of 2011).

Let the Methodists speak for themselves, but I think you will find them  behind Israel as well.  (As of 2009, worldwide membership was about 12  million: 7.7 million in the United States and Canada, and 4.4 million in  Africa, Asia and Europe).


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL in what world are you living in ?
> 
> You really think the Israelis are going to surrender to the great nation of Palestine, and just pick up and leave ??
> 
> 
> 
> Respecting international law is not surrendering.
Click to expand...


It is when you're surrounded by assholes who want you gone and you give up every advantage you have.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> It is when you're surrounded by assholes who want you gone and you give up every advantage you have.


It doesn't work that way.  You either obey the law, or you don't.  If you do, you won't be surrounded by assholes.  And if you don't, it's only a matter of time before you're forced to.

BTW, those assholes, just want you gone from their land, not from the earth.


----------



## Billo_Really

I do find it interesting that Sigmond Freud blamed zionists for arab hostilities.



> _In February 1930 Freud was asked, as a distinguished Jew, to contribute to a petition condemning Arab riots of 1929, in which over a hundred Jewish settlers were killed.  This was his reply:
> 
> Letter to the Keren Hajessod (Dr. Chaim Koffler)
> 
> Vienna: 26 February 1930
> 
> Dear Sir,
> 
> I cannot do as you wish. I am unable to overcome my aversion to burdening the public with my name, and even the present critical time does not seem to me to warrant it. *Whoever wants to influence the masses must give them something rousing and inflammatory and my sober judgement of Zionism does not permit this.* I certainly sympathise with its goals, am proud of our University in Jerusalem and am delighted with our settlements prosperity. But, on the other hand, I do not think that Palestine could ever become a Jewish state, nor that the Christian and Islamic worlds would ever be prepared to have their holy places under Jewish care. It would have seemed more sensible to me to establish a Jewish homeland on a less historically-burdened land. But I know that such a rational viewpoint would never have gained the enthusiasm of the masses and the financial support of the wealthy. *I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of the natives.*
> 
> Your obediant servant,
> 
> Freud_


There seems to be a lot of famous jews, who can't stand zionists.

I wonder why that is?  Misdirected piety?  You can see that in almost every post defending Israel.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is when you're surrounded by assholes who want you gone and you give up every advantage you have.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way.
Click to expand...


It's the middle east. 

It works ONLY in _that_ way.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> I do find it interesting that Sigmond Freud blamed zionists for arab hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _In February 1930 Freud was asked, as a distinguT&#1497;ished Jew, to contribute to a petition condemning Arab riots of 1929, in which over a hundred Jewish settlers were killed.  This was his reply:
> 
> Letter to the Keren Hajessod (Dr. Chaim Koffler)
> 
> Vienna: 26 February 1930
> 
> Dear Sir,
> 
> I cannot do as you wish. I am unable to overcome my aversion to burdening the public with my name, and even the present critical time does not seem to me to warrant it. *Whoever wants to influence the masses must give them something rousing and inflammatory and my sober judgement of Zionism does not permit this.* I certainly sympathise with its goals, am proud of our University in Jerusalem and am delighted with our settlements prosperity. But, on the other hand, I do not think that Palestine could ever become a Jewish state, nor that the Christian and Islamic worlds would ever be prepared to have their holy places under Jewish care. It would have seemed more sensible to me to establish a Jewish homeland on a less historically-burdened land. But I know that such a rational viewpoint would never have gained the enthusiasm of the masses and the financial support of the wealthy. *I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of the natives.*
> 
> Your obediant servant,
> 
> Freud_
> 
> 
> 
> There seems to be a lot of famous jews, who can't stand zionists.
> 
> I wonder why that is?  Misdirected piety?  You can see that in almost every post defending Israel.
Click to expand...


There are Jews worldwide who believe they can get the love and appreciation of the Gentiles by turning a back on their own nation.

Does not come as a surprise.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> There are Jews worldwide who believe they can get the love and appreciation of the Gentiles by turning a back on their own nation.
> 
> Does not come as a surprise.


That's not it at all.  They don't want to be associated with a racist, apartheid regime, that doesn't give a shit about human rights and international law.

Ergo, Israel today, doesn't jive with their jewry.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are Jews worldwide who believe they can get the love and appreciation of the Gentiles by turning a back on their own nation.
> 
> Does not come as a surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not it at all.  They don't want to be associated with a racist, apartheid regime, that doesn't give a shit about human rights and international law.
> 
> Ergo, Israel today, doesn't jive with their jewry.
Click to expand...


You say that's not it at all.

How do you know it is not the reason? I can tell from my knowledge discussion with Jews outside of Israel, that it is very much a reason for it.

In history, Jews have been known for at times to "sell themselves out", even turn their backs in their heritage, because it was a survival mechanism.

I know students in the united states keeping themselves out of Israel sympathizing, not because they are "rejecting" it, but because they simply are terrified of the anti-Israeli spirits surrounding them.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_



Billo_Really said:


> Your posts are so disjointed and hard to follow, I don't know why I respond to them.  It's like you deliberately make them is such away, that it takes extra work to weed out your point and respond to it.  You include all these unecessary salutations, fragment my post and then do a data dump and call it a day!


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, it is a lot of work trying to dig-out your individual points in order to respond.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, a straight forward allegation.
> 
> I make the assumption here that we are talking about the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> There's no reason to assume.  I stated the areas in my post and you're missing two.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What two?



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The State of Israel has not annexed or even attempted to annex any portion of the State of Palestine declared independent in 1988.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the settlements they built in the West Bank.  And you're starting the clock at the wrong time.  1967 is the proper starting point.
> 
> Those barriers are the cause of all the violence.
> 
> Everyone has the right to resist the foreign occupation of their land.
> 
> Israel doesn't do shit in accordance with international law.
> 
> That's illegal, according to IHL.
> 
> Is fishing and farming, acts of espionage?
> 
> Why are Palestinian's being shot at by the IDF, when they are farming and fishing?
> 
> Administrative detention, is a war crime.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The barriers are a means of non-lethal separation of Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP) from targeting sovereign Israeli interests.

The Israel never said the Palestinian does not have the right to resist.  It is a matter of how they "appropriately" resist that is controversial.  Remembering that international law provides for the detention and punishment for HoAP that intentionally do harm.

No one says that the Palestinian does not have a _prima facie_ case relative to Settlement issue.  _(Understanding that the settlement issue is not a crime of the same magnitude as murder, hijacking, piracy, and terrorism.)_

Relative to the "fishing and farming" comment, these are blanket complaints with no specifics attached.  I assume the fishing deals with the naval blockade of Gaza which is a logical extension of the security barrier.  Given the "ends justifies the means" policy of the HoAP, and the established past criminal and terrorist behaviors demonstrated by the HoAP, such a blockage is a prudent security measure that quarantines the potential threat of the HoAP from this avenue of exploitation. 



Billo_Really said:


> This one got me particularly irritated...
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> To prevent Piracy of vessels on the High Seas and murder of noncombatants.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you have the nerve to list something like that, after what Israel did to the Mavi Mamara?  They borded a vessel in international waters and summarily executed a 19 year old American.  You don't call that piracy?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Absolutely NOT!!!  This is in no way comparable to the MS Achille Lauro incident where Palestinian Terrorist killed an unarmed, wheelchair bound, American (Leon Klinghoffer) and then threw his body overboard.

This event _(May 2010 MV Mavi Mamara)_ was a planned voyage with the mission of - intentional confrontation with the Israeli blockade over Gaza.  The MV Mavi Mamara was a vessel known to have been involved with the Humanitarian Relief Fund in Turkish (IHH), an NGO with known terrorist ties.  The MV Mavi Mamara had a known past history of smuggling arms for insurgent and terrorist groups.   Its mission was no secret and widely publicized in print media and television coverage.  When the ship was confronted by Israeli commandos, Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, the IHH Leader of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, was on board the MV Mavi Marmara and gave orders to the crew to resist the boarding party using knives, clubs, iron bars and axes; an action resulting in 9 fatalities.  There were no summary executions.   These were fatalities, in which radical activist, with suicidal tendencies, deliberately acted in threatening ways, provoking a lethal response.  In fact Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, a lawyer, referred to them as martyrs.  

The UN Palmer Committee on the Mavi Marmara Report was subsequently leaked to the NY Times.  I would not discourage you from reading it, but I would like to call your attention to Pages 38 thru 45, beginning with Paragraph 67 and ending with Paragraph 82 (below).



Report of the Secretary-General&#8217 said:


> 82. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a *legitimate security measure* in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Palmer Report (Strictly Confidential) in NYT



Inappropriate behaviors and a history of past criminal activity often have consequence when a new direct confrontation is provoked.  The case of the MV Mavi Mamara in May 2010 was just such a case.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> You say that's not it at all.
> 
> How do you know it is not the reason? I can tell from my knowledge discussion with Jews outside of Israel, that it is very much a reason for it.
> 
> In history, Jews have been known for at times to "sell themselves out", even turn their backs in their heritage, because it was a survival mechanism.
> 
> I know students in the united states keeping themselves out of Israel sympathizing, not because they are "rejecting" it, but because they simply are terrified of the anti-Israeli spirits surrounding them.


No, they don't want to be associated with a country that is turning more German with each passing day.  You don't like the reference.  Well, I don't like reading the following...



> _One of the top commanders in the Territories was quoted in Haaretz (Jan. 25) as saying that in order to prepare for potential battles in dense urban neighborhoods,* the IDF must learn, if necessary, how the German army 'operated' in the Warsaw Ghetto.* _


...when I see shit like this...



> _a senior IDF officer proudly called, *"in order to beat the Palestinians, let's be Judo-Nazis"*?_


...the comparison is a valid one.  These are your own people, your own countryman, your beloved IDF, saying you need to be more like the nazis, in order to defeat the inhuman Palestinian's.

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again, you treat the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews.  And that is making jews all over the world, sick to their stomach.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so disjointed and hard to follow, I don't know why I respond to them.  It's like you deliberately make them is such away, that it takes extra work to weed out your point and respond to it.  You include all these unecessary salutations, fragment my post and then do a data dump and call it a day!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, it is a lot of work trying to dig-out your individual points in order to respond.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no reason to assume.  I stated the areas in my post and you're missing two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What two?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The barriers are a means of non-lethal separation of Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP) from targeting sovereign Israeli interests.
> 
> The Israel never said the Palestinian does not have the right to resist.  It is a matter of how they "appropriately" resist that is controversial.  Remembering that international law provides for the detention and punishment for HoAP that intentionally do harm.
> 
> No one says that the Palestinian does not have a _prima facie_ case relative to Settlement issue.  _(Understanding that the settlement issue is not a crime of the same magnitude as murder, hijacking, piracy, and terrorism.)_
> 
> Relative to the "fishing and farming" comment, these are blanket complaints with no specifics attached.  I assume the fishing deals with the naval blockade of Gaza which is a logical extension of the security barrier.  Given the "ends justifies the means" policy of the HoAP, and the established past criminal and terrorist behaviors demonstrated by the HoAP, such a blockage is a prudent security measure that quarantines the potential threat of the HoAP from this avenue of exploitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> This one got me particularly irritated...
> How do you have the nerve to list something like that, after what Israel did to the Mavi Mamara?  They borded a vessel in international waters and summarily executed a 19 year old American.  You don't call that piracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Absolutely NOT!!!  This is in no way comparable to the MS Achille Lauro incident where Palestinian Terrorist killed an unarmed, wheelchair bound, American (Leon Klinghoffer) and then threw his body overboard.
> 
> This event _(May 2010 MV Mavi Mamara)_ was a planned voyage with the mission of - intentional confrontation with the Israeli blockade over Gaza.  The MV Mavi Mamara was a vessel known to have been involved with the Humanitarian Relief Fund in Turkish (IHH), an NGO with known terrorist ties.  The MV Mavi Mamara had a known past history of smuggling arms for insurgent and terrorist groups.   Its mission was no secret and widely publicized in print media and television coverage.  When the ship was confronted by Israeli commandos, Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, the IHH Leader of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, was on board the MV Mavi Marmara and gave orders to the crew to resist the boarding party using knives, clubs, iron bars and axes; an action resulting in 9 fatalities.  There were no summary executions.   These were fatalities, in which radical activist, with suicidal tendencies, deliberately acted in threatening ways, provoking a lethal response.  In fact Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, a lawyer, referred to them as martyrs.
> 
> The UN Palmer Committee on the Mavi Marmara Report was subsequently leaked to the NY Times.  I would not discourage you from reading it, but I would like to call your attention to Pages 38 thru 45, beginning with Paragraph 67 and ending with Paragraph 82 (below).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report of the Secretary-Generals Panel of Inquiry on the 31 May 2010 Flotilla Incident said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 82. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a *legitimate security measure* in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Palmer Report (Strictly Confidential) in NYT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Inappropriate behaviors and a history of past criminal activity often have consequence when a new direct confrontation is provoked.  The case of the MV Mavi Mamara in May 2010 was just such a case.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palmer Report was all propaganda.  They didn't even interview anyone on the boat.  They got all their information, from the Israeli propaganda machine.  

The fact is, the vessel was in international waters when Israeli commando's attacked.  There is no law that allows you to board a vessel, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation, in international waters.  That's piracy.  They were carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza and that was it.  There was no resistance, no terrorists, no one but people who cared about humanity.  And if you would like me to post the video of the American being shot, just say the word and I'll let you have it!

As far as the fishermen go, they were being shot at in Gazan territorial waters, where the IDF has no legal presence to be.  How fucked do you have to be, to shoot at people fishing?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTUYivihoTE]Free Gaza Mov: Israeli shooting palestinian fishermen boats - YouTube[/ame]


Now here they are shooting at people farming!


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQXecLyureE]Israeli Terrorism in Gaza - Farming Under Fire - YouTube[/ame]


That is fucked!


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Interviews with crew members from the Mavi Marmara

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIuEAUa05ug&list=PLA022FC14B2678E5E&index=10]Gokkiran Gokhan, Mavi Marmara's Chief Officer Tells His Side of the Story - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JdfxKEGGtc&list=PLA022FC14B2678E5E]Interview with Mehmut Tuval, Captain, Mavi Marmara - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so disjointed and hard to follow, I don't know why I respond to them.  It's like you deliberately make them is such away, that it takes extra work to weed out your point and respond to it.  You include all these unecessary salutations, fragment my post and then do a data dump and call it a day!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, it is a lot of work trying to dig-out your individual points in order to respond.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What two?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The barriers are a means of non-lethal separation of Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP) from targeting sovereign Israeli interests.
> 
> The Israel never said the Palestinian does not have the right to resist.  It is a matter of how they "appropriately" resist that is controversial.  Remembering that international law provides for the detention and punishment for HoAP that intentionally do harm.
> 
> No one says that the Palestinian does not have a _prima facie_ case relative to Settlement issue.  _(Understanding that the settlement issue is not a crime of the same magnitude as murder, hijacking, piracy, and terrorism.)_
> 
> Relative to the "fishing and farming" comment, these are blanket complaints with no specifics attached.  I assume the fishing deals with the naval blockade of Gaza which is a logical extension of the security barrier.  Given the "ends justifies the means" policy of the HoAP, and the established past criminal and terrorist behaviors demonstrated by the HoAP, such a blockage is a prudent security measure that quarantines the potential threat of the HoAP from this avenue of exploitation.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Absolutely NOT!!!  This is in no way comparable to the MS Achille Lauro incident where Palestinian Terrorist killed an unarmed, wheelchair bound, American (Leon Klinghoffer) and then threw his body overboard.
> 
> This event _(May 2010 MV Mavi Mamara)_ was a planned voyage with the mission of - intentional confrontation with the Israeli blockade over Gaza.  The MV Mavi Mamara was a vessel known to have been involved with the Humanitarian Relief Fund in Turkish (IHH), an NGO with known terrorist ties.  The MV Mavi Mamara had a known past history of smuggling arms for insurgent and terrorist groups.   Its mission was no secret and widely publicized in print media and television coverage.  When the ship was confronted by Israeli commandos, Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, the IHH Leader of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, was on board the MV Mavi Marmara and gave orders to the crew to resist the boarding party using knives, clubs, iron bars and axes; an action resulting in 9 fatalities.  There were no summary executions.   These were fatalities, in which radical activist, with suicidal tendencies, deliberately acted in threatening ways, provoking a lethal response.  In fact Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, a lawyer, referred to them as martyrs.
> 
> The UN Palmer Committee on the Mavi Marmara Report was subsequently leaked to the NY Times.  I would not discourage you from reading it, but I would like to call your attention to Pages 38 thru 45, beginning with Paragraph 67 and ending with Paragraph 82 (below).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report of the Secretary-Generals Panel of Inquiry on the 31 May 2010 Flotilla Incident said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 82. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a *legitimate security measure* in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Palmer Report (Strictly Confidential) in NYT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Inappropriate behaviors and a history of past criminal activity often have consequence when a new direct confrontation is provoked.  The case of the MV Mavi Mamara in May 2010 was just such a case.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palmer Report was all propaganda.  They didn't even interview anyone on the boat.  They got all their information, from the Israeli propaganda machine.
> 
> The fact is, the vessel was in international waters when Israeli commando's attacked.  There is no law that allows you to board a vessel, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation, in international waters.  That's piracy.  They were carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza and that was it.  There was no resistance, no terrorists, no one but people who cared about humanity.  And if you would like me to post the video of the American being shot, just say the word and I'll let you have it!
> 
> As far as the fishermen go, they were being shot at in Gazan territorial waters, where the IDF has no legal presence to be.  How fucked do you have to be, to shoot at people fishing?
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTUYivihoTE]Free Gaza Mov: Israeli shooting palestinian fishermen boats - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> Now here they are shooting at people farming!
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQXecLyureE]Israeli Terrorism in Gaza - Farming Under Fire - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> That is fucked!
Click to expand...


Billo really, your version of the Mavi Marmara is the TYPICAL Arab propaganda version of the event.

The vessel knew full well they would be boarded if they didn't comply with the Israelis.
They planned the whole thing before, so they could gain attention from the world. 

And when they started beating the soldiers as they came down, what the fuck did they expect would happen when they started hitting armed Naval Special forces?

Again, you have to be blind not to know that the Mavi was a propaganda ship whos sole intention was to make a scene and gain attention from the world to vilify Israel. 

So , why did they try to break the blockade knowing full well they would be boarded ??


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> You say that's not it at all.
> 
> How do you know it is not the reason? I can tell from my knowledge discussion with Jews outside of Israel, that it is very much a reason for it.
> 
> In history, Jews have been known for at times to "sell themselves out", even turn their backs in their heritage, because it was a survival mechanism.
> 
> I know students in the united states keeping themselves out of Israel sympathizing, not because they are "rejecting" it, but because they simply are terrified of the anti-Israeli spirits surrounding them.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they don't want to be associated with a country that is turning more German with each passing day.  You don't like the reference.  Well, I don't like reading the following...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _One of the top commanders in the Territories was quoted in Haaretz (Jan. 25) as saying that in order to prepare for potential battles in dense urban neighborhoods,* the IDF must learn, if necessary, how the German army 'operated' in the Warsaw Ghetto.* _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...when I see shit like this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _a senior IDF officer proudly called, *"in order to beat the Palestinians, let's be Judo-Nazis"*?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...the comparison is a valid one.  These are your own people, your own countryman, your beloved IDF, saying you need to be more like the nazis, in order to defeat the inhuman Palestinian's.
> 
> I've said this before and I'm going to say it again, you treat the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews.  And that is making jews all over the world, sick to their stomach.
Click to expand...


Your comparison is what makes people sick in their stomach.

Those are people who shoot babies in their cribs, bomb buses filled with women and children, teach their young ones SINCE birth that the day of judgment would not come untill we're all dead, who SAY, PROUDLY so, that their killers are HEROES, the same people who kill Jews not only in Israel, but worldwide, who proudly announce that it's GOOD that Jews gather in Israel since _it'll make them easier to kill_, you compare THOSE people to the Jews of the 30's in Europe?

Did ANY Jew of that time sniped a newborn in a crib? Did ANY JEW burned down a German church, an European bus? Did any Jew teach his or her babies that civilians are legitimate target? did any Jew teach that the day of judgement won't arrive until the last Gentile is dead?

If we were like the Nazis, their would never have been even a slight CHANCE of Palestine ever being ABLE to exist in the FUTURE.

You're crazy if that is the kind of comparison you make.

You put holocaust victims to shame, comparing them with an invented nation that all it knows is to try and create a fabricate country on top of one that blooms and exists for decades.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Billo really, your version of the Mavi Marmara is the TYPICAL Arab propaganda version of the event.
> 
> The vessel knew full well they would be boarded if they didn't comply with the Israelis.
> They planned the whole thing before, so they could gain attention from the world.
> 
> And when they started beating the soldiers as they came down, what the fuck did they expect would happen when they started hitting armed Naval Special forces?
> 
> Again, you have to be blind not to know that the Mavi was a propaganda ship whos sole intention was to make a scene and gain attention from the world to vilify Israel.
> 
> So , why did they try to break the blockade knowing full well they would be boarded ??


You cannot board a vessel in international waters!  Period.  That is illegal.

And the bullshit propaganda, is coming from your side.  There are videos of the actual event, that show what I'm saying is true.  The only video that shows what you're saying, was a fake video of a similar ship, being passed of as the Mavi Mamara and that to, was debunked.


Here's the Israeli's doing it to another boat in international waters.  I'm mean, who fuck do you people think you are?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpqnMrLv1bQ&feature=player_embedded]30th July Video Free Gaza news Is Israel guilty of piracy - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so disjointed and hard to follow, I don't know why I respond to them.  It's like you deliberately make them is such away, that it takes extra work to weed out your point and respond to it.  You include all these unecessary salutations, fragment my post and then do a data dump and call it a day!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, it is a lot of work trying to dig-out your individual points in order to respond.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What two?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The barriers are a means of non-lethal separation of Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP) from targeting sovereign Israeli interests.
> 
> The Israel never said the Palestinian does not have the right to resist.  It is a matter of how they "appropriately" resist that is controversial.  Remembering that international law provides for the detention and punishment for HoAP that intentionally do harm.
> 
> No one says that the Palestinian does not have a _prima facie_ case relative to Settlement issue.  _(Understanding that the settlement issue is not a crime of the same magnitude as murder, hijacking, piracy, and terrorism.)_
> 
> Relative to the "fishing and farming" comment, these are blanket complaints with no specifics attached.  I assume the fishing deals with the naval blockade of Gaza which is a logical extension of the security barrier.  Given the "ends justifies the means" policy of the HoAP, and the established past criminal and terrorist behaviors demonstrated by the HoAP, such a blockage is a prudent security measure that quarantines the potential threat of the HoAP from this avenue of exploitation.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Absolutely NOT!!!  This is in no way comparable to the MS Achille Lauro incident where Palestinian Terrorist killed an unarmed, wheelchair bound, American (Leon Klinghoffer) and then threw his body overboard.
> 
> This event _(May 2010 MV Mavi Mamara)_ was a planned voyage with the mission of - intentional confrontation with the Israeli blockade over Gaza.  The MV Mavi Mamara was a vessel known to have been involved with the Humanitarian Relief Fund in Turkish (IHH), an NGO with known terrorist ties.  The MV Mavi Mamara had a known past history of smuggling arms for insurgent and terrorist groups.   Its mission was no secret and widely publicized in print media and television coverage.  When the ship was confronted by Israeli commandos, Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, the IHH Leader of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, was on board the MV Mavi Marmara and gave orders to the crew to resist the boarding party using knives, clubs, iron bars and axes; an action resulting in 9 fatalities.  There were no summary executions.   These were fatalities, in which radical activist, with suicidal tendencies, deliberately acted in threatening ways, provoking a lethal response.  In fact Fehmi Bülent Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m, a lawyer, referred to them as martyrs.
> 
> The UN Palmer Committee on the Mavi Marmara Report was subsequently leaked to the NY Times.  I would not discourage you from reading it, but I would like to call your attention to Pages 38 thru 45, beginning with Paragraph 67 and ending with Paragraph 82 (below).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report of the Secretary-Generals Panel of Inquiry on the 31 May 2010 Flotilla Incident said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 82. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a *legitimate security measure* in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Palmer Report (Strictly Confidential) in NYT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Inappropriate behaviors and a history of past criminal activity often have consequence when a new direct confrontation is provoked.  The case of the MV Mavi Mamara in May 2010 was just such a case.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palmer Report was all propaganda.  They didn't even interview anyone on the boat.  They got all their information, from the Israeli propaganda machine.
> 
> The fact is, the vessel was in international waters when Israeli commando's attacked.  There is no law that allows you to board a vessel, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation, in international waters.  That's piracy.  They were carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza and that was it.  There was no resistance, no terrorists, no one but people who cared about humanity.  And if you would like me to post the video of the American being shot, just say the word and I'll let you have it!
> 
> As far as the fishermen go, they were being shot at in Gazan territorial waters, where the IDF has no legal presence to be.  How fucked do you have to be, to shoot at people fishing?
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTUYivihoTE]Free Gaza Mov: Israeli shooting palestinian fishermen boats - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> Now here they are shooting at people farming!
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQXecLyureE]Israeli Terrorism in Gaza - Farming Under Fire - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> That is fucked!
Click to expand...


Yeah, that is fucked.

Just as at much as it's fucked when their snipers shoot on OUR farmers.

Didn't hear you protesting that


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Your comparison is what makes people sick in their stomach.
> 
> Those are people who shoot babies in their cribs, bomb buses filled with women and children, teach their young ones SINCE birth that the day of judgment would not come untill we're all dead, who SAY, PROUDLY so, that their killers are HEROES, the same people who kill Jews not only in Israel, but worldwide, who proudly announce that it's GOOD that Jews gather in Israel since it'll make them easier to kill, you compare THOSE people to the Jews of the 30's in Europe?
> 
> Did ANY Jew of that time sniped a newborn in a crib? Did ANY JEW burned down a German church, an European bus? Did any Jew teach his or her babies that civilians are legitimate target? did any Jew teach that the day of judgement won't arrive until the last Gentile is dead?
> 
> If we were like the Nazis, their would never have been even a slight CHANCE of Palestine ever being ABLE to exist in the FUTURE.
> 
> You're crazy if that is the kind of comparison you make.
> 
> You put holocaust victims to shame, comparing them with an invented nation that all it knows is to try and create a fabricate country on top of one that blooms and exists for decades.


All you're offering is conjecture.  I provided direct quotes from IDF commanders saying you need to be more like the nazis.  

If the shoe fits...


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

You can board a boat in International Waters if it is trying to commit an illegal act.  The boarding was to steer the boat to the port seeing as the crew were not going to do that themselves.  

Here the passengers state their goal is to break the blockade or become martyrs trying.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYjuDEZw1w]Evidence: IHH Leader Urges Men to Throw Israelis Overboard 30May2010 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Yeah, that is fucked.
> 
> Just as at much as it's fucked when their snipers shoot on OUR farmers.
> 
> Didn't hear you protesting that


Don't see you showing any proof of that.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> it'll make them easier to kill[/I], you compare THOSE people to the Jews of the 30's in Europe?
> 
> Did ANY Jew of that time sniped a newborn in a crib? Did ANY JEW burned down a German church, an European bus? Did any Jew teach his or her babies that civilians are legitimate target? did any Jew teach that the day of judgement won't arrive until the last Gentile is dead?
> 
> If we were like the Nazis, their would never have been even a slight CHANCE of Palestine ever being ABLE to exist in the FUTURE.
> 
> You're crazy if that is the kind of comparison you make.
> 
> You put holocaust victims to shame, comparing them with an invented nation that all it knows is to try and create a fabricate country on top of one that blooms and exists for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> All you're offering is conjecture.  I provided direct quotes from IDF commanders saying you need to be more like the nazis.
> 
> If the shoe fits...
Click to expand...


We don't need to be like the Nazis, the Palestinians believe in many things the Nazis believed in, and I don't think we should adapt the Palestinian lack of humanity.

I do believe that we constantly show hesitation and weakness. As long as we don't respect ourselves and our right to be here and exist, then we cannot expect others to respect us, either.

And yeah, there are IDF soldiers who say things, and there are those who say completely other things.

wonder why you chose to show only half truths?


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that is fucked.
> 
> Just as at much as it's fucked when their snipers shoot on OUR farmers.
> 
> Didn't hear you protesting that
> 
> 
> 
> Don't see you showing any proof of that.
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-3uFGEYZCI]???? ?????? ?? - Live shooting during report?? - YouTube[/ame]

Palestinian snipers shoot on innocent Israeli farmers in Ein Hashlosha.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> You can board a boat in International Waters if it is trying to commit an illegal act.  The boarding was to steer the boat to the port seeing as the crew were not going to do that themselves.
> 
> Here the passengers state their goal is to break the blockade or become martyrs trying.
> 
> Evidence: IHH Leader Urges Men to Throw Israelis Overboard 30May2010 - YouTube


The illegal act, is the blockade itself.  In fact, the blockade, is a war crime.

Show me where it say's you can board a vessel in international waters.


----------



## Lipush

IN THE VIDEO:Farmers calling "Call the IDF, they're shooting at us, we lie down here".

At the end of the video the farmer asks his friend to watch over his kids in case he gets a bullet


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> ???? ?????? ?? - Live shooting during report?? - YouTube
> 
> Palestinian snipers shoot on innocent Israeli farmers in Ein Hashlosha.


If it is what you say, then it's wrong.  Unlike the videos I provided, you can't see whose shooting them.

However, since this is the first time I've seen the video, I'll do something you never do with me, which is give you the benefit of the doubt and take you at your word.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> ???? ?????? ?? - Live shooting during report?? - YouTube
> 
> Palestinian snipers shoot on innocent Israeli farmers in Ein Hashlosha.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is what you say, then it's wrong.  Unlike the videos I provided, you can't see whose shooting them.
> 
> However, since this is the first time I've seen the video, I'll do something you never do with me, which is give you the benefit of the doubt and take you at your word.
Click to expand...


Wow. I feel giddy.


----------



## Lipush

Who else do you think will shoot on Israeli farmers in Ein Hashlosha? You don't need to take my word for it, it's using your head, nothing less


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Wow. I feel giddy.


I have a soft spot for jewish latina's.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Who else do you think will shoot on Israeli farmers in Ein Hashlosha?


Oooh, let me think_*..................the Dutch?*_


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who else do you think will shoot on Israeli farmers in Ein Hashlosha?
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh, let me think_*..................the Dutch?*_
Click to expand...


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. I feel giddy.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a soft spot for jewish latina's.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can board a boat in International Waters if it is trying to commit an illegal act.  The boarding was to steer the boat to the port seeing as the crew were not going to do that themselves.
> 
> Here the passengers state their goal is to break the blockade or become martyrs trying.
> 
> Evidence: IHH Leader Urges Men to Throw Israelis Overboard 30May2010 - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> The illegal act, is the blockade itself.  In fact, the blockade, is a war crime.
> 
> Show me where it say's you can board a vessel in international waters.
Click to expand...


You will find it in the Helsinki Principles on the Law of Maritime Neutrality.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

Nonsense!



Billo_Really said:


> The Palmer Report was all propaganda.  They didn't even interview anyone on the boat.  They got all their information, from the Israeli propaganda machine.


*(COMMENT)*

It wasn't propaganda.  The report was never cleared for public release and was never intended for public release.  It was UN classified (Strictly Confidential).



Billo_Really said:


> The fact is, the vessel was in international waters when Israeli commando's attacked.  There is no law that allows you to board a vessel, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation, in international waters.  That's piracy.  They were carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza and that was it.  There was no resistance, no terrorists, no one but people who cared about humanity.  And if you would like me to post the video of the American being shot, just say the word and I'll let you have it!


*(COMMENT)*

In fact, you are wrong.  The blockade was duly registered in accordance with Admiralty Law and Maritime Notices published accordingly.

Second, the interdiction was pursuant to the ANNEX Plan of Action, to the Resolution 60/288, adopted by the General Assembly on 8 September 2006 The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy

There is a question if the IHH ever really wanted to reach Gaza, but instead, wanted to intensionally promote a violent confrontation.



Billo_Really said:


> As far as the fishermen go, they were being shot at in Gazan territorial waters, where the IDF has no legal presence to be.  How fucked do you have to be, to shoot at people fishing?


*(COMMENT)*

Again, you have to know what you are looking at.  In the video, you clearly see that the an Israel Navy Patrol Boat _(Boat 836, a Dvora Mark 3 vessel)_ making an Radar Directed high speed intercept of a small fishing vessel.  It appears that, according to customary law, the patrol boat took up station on the seaward side of the blockage, and when the fishing boat failed to respond and turn about, warning shot were fire across the bow in front of the boat.  This is much different from being "shot at."  All mariners are familiar with this attention getting method.





This particular Israeli Naval High Speed Patrol Boat #836, and its crew,
are very well known to the Gazian Fishermen in the Region, 
particularly those that play this confrontation game for the media.  It has appeared in several articles and movies.​


Billo_Really said:


> Now here they are shooting at people farming!


*(COMMENT)*

In the farmer video, you can clearly see that it was a staged confrontation.  Again, this was a case of warning fire.  If the IDF had wanted to shoot a farmer, from that range, they could hardly miss.  No, the farmers know that if they stray to close to the demarcation line, they will be warned-off.

*(NOTE)*  In terms of "propaganda!"


The fishing boat wanted to make a video of an intercept; and so they did.
The non-farmers wanted to make a video of the IDF interdiction.  They made their movie and left.

Stages confrontations for the purpose of making a propaganda video.



Billo_Really said:


> That is fucked!


*(COMMENT)*

Foolish actions have consequences.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

EXCELLENT post Rocco.

I pos repped you


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

toastman said:


> EXCELLENT post Rocco.
> 
> I pos repped you



Yes Rocco, excellent.  I also pos repped you.  Your research and responses to others are exemplary.


----------



## Kondor3

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are Jews worldwide who believe they can get the love and appreciation of the Gentiles by turning a back on their own nation.
> 
> Does not come as a surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not it at all.  They don't want to be associated with a racist, apartheid regime, that doesn't give a shit about human rights and international law.
> 
> Ergo, Israel today, doesn't jive with their jewry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You say that's not it at all.
> 
> How do you know it is not the reason? I can tell from my knowledge discussion with Jews outside of Israel, that it is very much a reason for it.
> 
> In history, Jews have been known for at times to "sell themselves out", even turn their backs in their heritage, because it was a survival mechanism.
> 
> I know students in the united states keeping themselves out of Israel sympathizing, not because they are "rejecting" it, but because they simply are terrified of the anti-Israeli spirits surrounding them.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Like one or two other fairly active anti-Israel bloggers hereabouts, I believe that Billo WANTS there to be a weakening of resolve on the part of Israel, and that he therefore interprets lightweight and scattered reports of such weakening as systemic and widespread and attributable to Revisionist Equivalencies with South Africa and the like, where no such Equivalencies or widespread weakening exist... but that's just a personal impression on my part.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..._There seems to be a lot of famous jews, who can't stand zionists_..."


Privileged types, sheltered from the Holocaust Camps, living the high life elsewhere, who do not feel their Faith nor their Kindred nor the pull of the Homeland, with little or no actual or emotional stake in the outcome, who would rather Switch than Fight, in large part, quite possibly.



> "..._I wonder why that is?_..."



The 2,000 -year-old habit of keeping your head down like Good Little Dhimmis dies hard.

The braver and better ones managed to shake off that funk in 1948 and beyond.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN is a petting zoo for decadent Hate Whitey multiculties.   The League of Nations proved that such an organization never should have been formed.
> 
> Israel doesn't owe its existence to the illegitimate UN.   It owes its existence to the British Mandate and the will, intelligence, and bravery of the Zionists who forced the resurgent Appeasement Generation of British leaders to honor the promise made by the Churchill Generation.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware that the League of Nations transferred all its authority (which includes the Mandate) over to the UN?
> 
> And did you also know that the Mandate had a caveat that zionists could have a jewish homeland in Palestine, as long as they didn't compromise the rights of all the non-jews living in the area?
Click to expand...



It is really ignorant to take these multicultie organizations seriously.   Carving up the Ottoman Empire was the West's reward for 600 years defending civilization against the Mongoloid subhumans who had emigrated to Turkey from literally No Man's Land.       

 The caveat was a contradiction.   How could they grant a homeland with the right to terrorize granted to those whose homeland it wasn't?   But that's what happens when British Petroleum and weakling Dhimmi patsy pushovers corrupt a foreign policy.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs don't need any reason.   Like snakes and sharks, they are born bloodthirsty.   Get rid of the Jews and their addiction to violence will drive them into sectarian violence.   Let one sect win and the desert bandits will go tribe against tribe or invade their Arab neighbors.   This is their history, this is their DNA.
> 
> 
> 
> You're nuts!  There's never been a violent baby born in the history of this planet.
> 
> They are taught to hate and you're a pretty good teacher of that.
Click to expand...


It must be nice living on a warm and fuzzy planet like Kumbaya.   Did you have to make it Jew-free and White-free before everybody started loving one another and holding hands?


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you're not President.
> 
> And you won't be ending this.
> 
> Neither will anybody who thinks like you in this context.
> 
> Next slide, please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry sir, you're gonna have to leave the theatre, we're getting complaints from the other patrons.
Click to expand...


What's showing?   Some touchy-feely cartoon for 6-year olds?   As soon as the kids come outside, they'll break into a zoo and dance with the wolves.   

Life is beautiful
Lalaluhluh lah 
Lalaluhluh lah


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> I do find it interesting that Sigmond Freud blamed zionists for arab hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _In February 1930 Freud was asked, as a distinguished Jew, to contribute to a petition condemning Arab riots of 1929, in which over a hundred Jewish settlers were killed.  This was his reply:
> 
> Letter to the Keren Hajessod (Dr. Chaim Koffler)
> 
> Vienna: 26 February 1930
> 
> Dear Sir,
> 
> I cannot do as you wish. I am unable to overcome my aversion to burdening the public with my name, and even the present critical time does not seem to me to warrant it. *Whoever wants to influence the masses must give them something rousing and inflammatory and my sober judgement of Zionism does not permit this.* I certainly sympathise with its goals, am proud of our University in Jerusalem and am delighted with our settlements prosperity. But, on the other hand, I do not think that Palestine could ever become a Jewish state, nor that the Christian and Islamic worlds would ever be prepared to have their holy places under Jewish care. It would have seemed more sensible to me to establish a Jewish homeland on a less historically-burdened land. But I know that such a rational viewpoint would never have gained the enthusiasm of the masses and the financial support of the wealthy. *I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of the natives.*
> 
> Your obediant servant,
> 
> Freud_
> 
> 
> 
> There seems to be a lot of famous jews, who can't stand zionists.
> 
> I wonder why that is?  Misdirected piety?  You can see that in almost every post defending Israel.
Click to expand...


Degenerates like Freud and Kafka should be blamed for Jewish pacifism during the leadup to the Holocaust.   Freud's unmanly Oedipus Complex does not make for a warrior culture, and those Jews needed to be warriors.


----------



## PrometheusBound

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts are so disjointed and hard to follow, I don't know why I respond to them.  It's like you deliberately make them is such away, that it takes extra work to weed out your point and respond to it.  You include all these unecessary salutations, fragment my post and then do a data dump and call it a day!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, it is a lot of work trying to dig-out your individual points in order to respond.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no reason to assume.  I stated the areas in my post and you're missing two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What two?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The barriers are a means of non-lethal separation of Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP) from targeting sovereign Israeli interests.
> 
> The Israel never said the Palestinian does not have the right to resist.  It is a matter of how they "appropriately" resist that is controversial.  Remembering that international law provides for the detention and punishment for HoAP that intentionally do harm.
> 
> No one says that the Palestinian does not have a _prima facie_ case relative to Settlement issue.  _(Understanding that the settlement issue is not a crime of the same magnitude as murder, hijacking, piracy, and terrorism.)_
> 
> Relative to the "fishing and farming" comment, these are blanket complaints with no specifics attached.  I assume the fishing deals with the naval blockade of Gaza which is a logical extension of the security barrier.  Given the "ends justifies the means" policy of the HoAP, and the established past criminal and terrorist behaviors demonstrated by the HoAP, such a blockage is a prudent security measure that quarantines the potential threat of the HoAP from this avenue of exploitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> This one got me particularly irritated...
> How do you have the nerve to list something like that, after what Israel did to the Mavi Mamara?  They borded a vessel in international waters and summarily executed a 19 year old American.  You don't call that piracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> This event _(May 2010 MV Mavi Mamara)_ was a planned voyage with the mission of - intentional confrontation with the Israeli blockade over Gaza.  The MV Mavi Mamara was a vessel known to have been involved with the Humanitarian Relief Fund in Turkish (IHH), an NGO with known terrorist ties.  The MV Mavi Mamara had a known past history of smuggling arms for insurgent and terrorist groups.   Its mission was no secret and widely publicized in print media and television coverage.
> The UN Palmer Committee on the Mavi Marmara Report was subsequently leaked to the NY Times.  I would not discourage you from reading it, but I would like to call your attention to Pages 38 thru 45, beginning with Paragraph 67 and ending with Paragraph 82 (below).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report of the Secretary-Generals Panel of Inquiry on the 31 May 2010 Flotilla Incident said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 82. The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a *legitimate security measure* in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Palmer Report (Strictly Confidential) in NYT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Inappropriate behaviors and a history of past criminal activity often have consequence when a new direct confrontation is provoked.  The case of the MV Mavi Mamara in May 2010 was just such a case.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Because of the insanity against profiling, the terrorist boat racing towards the _USS Cole_ was allowed to get close enough to kill.   Rules of Engagement like this shows how much contempt our leaders have for those risking their lives to protect the leaders' comfortable lives.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._There seems to be a lot of famous jews, who can't stand zionists_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Privileged types, sheltered from the Holocaust Camps, living the high life elsewhere, who do not feel their Faith nor their Kindred nor the pull of the Homeland, with little or no actual or emotional stake in the outcome, who would rather Switch than Fight, in large part, quite possibly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._I wonder why that is?_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 2,000 -year-old habit of keeping your head down like Good Little Dhimmis dies hard.
> 
> The braver and better ones managed to shake off that funk in 1948 and beyond.
Click to expand...


The moral point of Spielberg's _Munich_ was so silly and ignorable that I enjoyed it as an exciting pro-Mossad action movie.   That spoiled Arab girl going to her expensive piano lessons had her whole lifestyle paid for with the blood of Israeli children.


----------



## Beachboy

PrometheusBound said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._There seems to be a lot of famous jews, who can't stand zionists_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Privileged types, sheltered from the Holocaust Camps, living the high life elsewhere, who do not feel their Faith nor their Kindred nor the pull of the Homeland, with little or no actual or emotional stake in the outcome, who would rather Switch than Fight, in large part, quite possibly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._I wonder why that is?_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 2,000 -year-old habit of keeping your head down like Good Little Dhimmis dies hard.
> 
> The braver and better ones managed to shake off that funk in 1948 and beyond.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The moral point of Spielberg's _Munich_ was so silly and ignorable that I enjoyed it as an exciting pro-Mossad action movie.   That spoiled Arab girl going to her expensive piano lessons had her whole lifestyle paid for with the blood of Israeli children.
Click to expand...


Here is the trailer for_ Munich_.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LFfT44BlaQ]Munich [HD 1080p Official Trailer] - YouTube[/ame]​


----------



## Lipush

An unusual event in Gaza strip now


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> An unusual event in Gaza strip now


What's that, they're allowed to eat?


----------



## Lipush

Don't be an idiot, people are hurt.


----------



## Billo_Really

This guy has got the zionist propaganda machine down pat!  

He know's  Israeli dogma!

Apparantly, some Israeli's really freak out, when other Israeli's refuse to go kill Palestinian's. 

But first, a brief history to put this in perspective.


> _Open Letter to American Jews
> 
> Yesterday I was informed of an interesting phenomenon: *a peace-supporting Jewish organization called Tikkun published an ad* in favor of us, the Israeli reservist refuseniks, and *was immediately bombarded with hate mails and phones from other American Jews.* What's more interesting is that *even other Jews considering themselves supporters of peace have denounced the Tikkun ad*
> 
> I've heard and read so many specific arguments about specific aspects of our act. *They range from petty nit-picking to plain ludicrous, and each and every one of them can be refuted to dust in a matter of minutes.*
> 
> But the moment you refute them, new specific arguments sprout up like mushrooms.
> 
> *It is clear that there is something very general and non-specific behind all this criticism.* Therefore, if you allow me, I will start from the general and only later turn to a couple of these specific issues. _


And now, we go inside the zionist head and see how they view the world.  Take notes, because this is worth the price of admission.

In regards to the Israeli- Palestinian conflict...



> _The general theme is the *tribal theme*. A very very loud voice (and in Israel nowadays, it is *the only voice that is allowed to be fully heard*) keeps shouting that *we are in the midst of a war between two tribes*: a tribe of *human beings, of pure good - the Israelis - and a tribe of sub-human beings, of pure evil - the Palestinians.*  To those who find this black-and-white picture a bit hard to believe, the same voice shouts that *this is a war of life and death*. Only one tribe will survive, and so even if we are not purely good, *we must lay morality and conscience to sleep, shut up and fight to kill - or else, the Palestinians will throw us into the sea*.
> 
> Does this ring a bell to you? *[Lipbush] * It does to me. As a little child growing up in Israel under Golda Meir and Moshe Dayan, *all I heard was that the Arabs are inhuman monsters who want to throw us into the sea*, they understand only force, and *since our wonderful IDF [Israel defense Force] has won the Six Day War they know not to mess with us anymore - or else. *And of course, we must keep the Liberated Territories to ourselves, because there's no one to talk with._


 This is the Zionist mindset...



> _ the Palestinians are too painfully close, like a rival sibling (and - may I add - because they have always been so weak), we have singled them out for a special treatment.* Having them under our rule, we've allowed ourselves to trample them like dirt, like dogs.* We've been doing it even to our own Palestinian citizens (especially before 1966), but we have perfected our treatment in this strange no man's land created in 1967, and known as the Occupied Territories. *There we have created an entirely hallucinatory reality, in which the true humans, members of the Nation of Masters, could move and settle freely and safely, while the sub-humans, the Nation of Slaves, were shoved into the corners, and kept invisible and controlled under our IDF boots*._


Would they be jackboots?

And now the truth about the occupation...


> _*Since 1987, this cruel, impossible, unnatural, insulting reality in the Territories has been exploding in our face. But because of our unshakeable belief that the Palestinians are monsters who want to throw us into the sea, we reacted by trying to maintain what we've created at all costs.* This meant of course employing more and more and more force, with the natural result of receiving more and more and more force in return. When a fledgling and hesitating peace process tried to work its way through this mess, one major factor (perhaps THE factor) that undermined it and voided its meaning was* our establishment's endless fear and suspicion of The Other*. To resolve this fear and suspicion, we chose the insane route of *demanding full control of The Other *throughout the process._


This is where I do my best work, showing people who want "full control", that they don't have any at all.


----------



## Beachboy

PrometheusBound said:


> *The UN is a petting zoo for decadent Hate Whitey multiculties.*   The League of Nations proved that such an organization never should have been formed.
> 
> Israel doesn't owe its existence to the illegitimate UN.   It owes its existence to the British Mandate and the will, intelligence, and bravery of the Zionists who forced the resurgent Appeasement Generation of British leaders to honor the promise made by the Churchill Generation.
















Uh, oh, looks like my mind is growing again.  The third world is all  over the UN begging, begging, and begging.  They never realize that the  West has what it does because, we built,  built, built.  Third-world Muslims can not control their overpopulation,  or begin to clean up their slums. Can anyone name an accomplishment of Muslims to match the invention of the light bulb, television, or putting a man on the moon.  Until they help themselves, we  should do nothing for them.  That is not a tough political statement,  that is the law of nature.  I bet it is somewhere in the _Qur'an_. ​​



​


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> _This guy has got the zionist propaganda machine down pat! _


An 11-year-old letter from a professional pro-Palestinian / anti-Israeli fifth columnist who happens to be Jewish?

I wonder if he'll clap and dance with glee when the Arabs push the Jews into the Med?

Hmmmmmm...


----------



## Beachboy

*The OP*



American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and slanders of the political and media elites, the ignorance of multitudes, and the specter of daily terror. It is equally inconceivable that this same beleaguered nation could at the same time become one of the worlds leading innovators in science, technology, medicine and agriculture, offering benefits to mankind out of all proportion to its numbers and circumstanceswhile reaping, for the most part, resentment, envy and violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of phenomena, the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe bet that Israel will still be around when its adversaries and detractors have succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas. Get used to it. Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay


----------



## TheBarber

Beachboy said:


> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...



If Iran gives Hezbollah rockets already, what happens when they make a few nukes?​


----------



## Beachboy

TheBarber said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If Iran gives Hezbollah rockets already, what happens when they make a few nukes?​
Click to expand...



As was posted recently, President Obama was asked what keeps him up at night.  First, he said nothing usually.  When asked again he said he really sleeps well.  The third time he was asked he said sometimes "Pakistan."  Nothing like a bunch of ignorant Muslims with nuclear weapons looking for a excuse to blow up India.



​


----------



## pbel

Beachboy said:


> TheBarber said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Iran gives Hezbollah rockets already, what happens when they make a few nukes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As was posted recently, President Obama was asked what keeps him up at night.  First, he said nothing usually.  When asked again he said he really sleeps well.  The third time he was asked he said sometimes "Pakistan."  Nothing like a bunch of ignorant Muslims with nuclear weapons looking for a excuse to blow up India.
Click to expand...


Pure propaganda...Polls in Pakistan have consistently shown right left or center that they hate Israel more than India.


----------



## Billo_Really

PrometheusBound said:


> It must be nice living on a warm and fuzzy planet like Kumbaya.   Did you have to make it Jew-free and White-free before everybody started loving one another and holding hands?


Not at all.  Jews and whites are all completely welcome in my world, because I don't fear other cultures.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> An 11-year-old letter from a professional pro-Palestinian / anti-Israeli fifth columnist who happens to be Jewish?
> 
> I wonder if he'll clap and dance with glee when the Arabs push the Jews into the Med?
> 
> Hmmmmmm...


Thanks for proving him right!


You just said, what he said, you'd say.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> An 11-year-old letter from a professional pro-Palestinian / anti-Israeli fifth columnist who happens to be Jewish?
> 
> I wonder if he'll clap and dance with glee when the Arabs push the Jews into the Med?
> 
> Hmmmmmm...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving him right!
> 
> 
> You just said, what he said, you'd say.
Click to expand...

And I said it in full advance awareness that he had said such a thing.

Reiterating the point struck me as far more important and beneficial than worrying about such minutiae.

Reiterating that does not negate the validity of the sentiment nor its accuracy nor my perception of his role as a fifth columnist and his practical standing as a turncoat against his own people.

Benedict Arnold had a real way with words, too.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israel and the UN Human Rights Council Circus*

October 31, 2013 By Joseph Klein 






...

The problem for Israel is that the Human Rights Council, which is dominated by Islamist states and their allies, stacks the deck against Israel, which has been subject to far more condemnations by the Human Rights Council than Iran, Sudan, Syria and other serial human rights violators combined. The Obama administrations decision to join the Human Rights Council, said to be for the purpose of influencing this body from within, has not changed the Councils anti-Israel bias.

Israel is the only country listed on the Human Rights Councils permanent agenda.  Moreover, it is the only country subjected to an investigatory mandate that examines the actions of only one side to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict  Israel  and presumes the Jewish state to be guilty, while giving Hamas, Hezbollah and their state sponsors a free pass.

Moreover, Israel is still prevented from actually joining the Human Rights Council itself because it is denied full membership in any regional group of nations, from which the Council members are selected. Geographically, Israel should be a part of the Asian Nations Group, as are its Arab neighbors, but Arab nations who are members of that group have blocked Israel from joining. As a consolation prize, Israel has been relegated to limited membership in a group known as Western Nations and Others (WEOG), which bars Israel from group membership privileges in any UN activities outside of New York. Thus, unless the WEOG changes its policies, which Israel has requested, it cannot represent the WEOG or any other regional group on the Human Rights Council which persistently judges its conduct.

Nevertheless, Israel decided to swallow its revulsion at the Councils modus operandi and participate in the Universal Periodic Review session. It candidly admitted its imperfections, but defended its overall human rights record. Israeli ambassador Eviator Manor also pointed out to the Council that Israel has been regularly subject to significant, and often politically motivated, scrutiny over the years, disproportional to the worldwide human rights situation. The promotion of human rights is a just yet complex task in every society  especially in a democratic, multicultural society that constantly confronts terrorism

...

Israel is expected by Falk and the Human Rights Council that he represents to take the persistent terrorist threats it faces lying down. In the world inhabited by the hypocrites who denounce Israel while abusing the human rights of their own residents, Israel is expected to look the other way while the resistance fighters build their tunnels of terror and launch their rockets against Israeli civilians. Fortunately, while Israel was willing to play along with the meaningless Universal Period Review, it shows no inclination to drop its guard or to back away from defending its citizens with whatever means it deems necessary. Hopefully, this will remain true no matter what the UN Human Rights Council may think.

Israel and the UN Human Rights Council Circus | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> *Israel and the UN Human Rights Council Circus*
> 
> October 31, 2013 By Joseph Klein
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The problem for Israel is that the Human Rights Council, which is dominated by Islamist states and their allies, stacks the deck against Israel, which has been subject to far more condemnations by the Human Rights Council than Iran, Sudan, Syria and other serial human rights violators combined. The Obama administrations decision to join the Human Rights Council, said to be for the purpose of influencing this body from within, has not changed the Councils anti-Israel bias.
> 
> Israel is the only country listed on the Human Rights Councils permanent agenda.  Moreover, it is the only country subjected to an investigatory mandate that examines the actions of only one side to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict  Israel  and presumes the Jewish state to be guilty, while giving Hamas, Hezbollah and their state sponsors a free pass.
> 
> Moreover, Israel is still prevented from actually joining the Human Rights Council itself because it is denied full membership in any regional group of nations, from which the Council members are selected. Geographically, Israel should be a part of the Asian Nations Group, as are its Arab neighbors, but Arab nations who are members of that group have blocked Israel from joining. As a consolation prize, Israel has been relegated to limited membership in a group known as Western Nations and Others (WEOG), which bars Israel from group membership privileges in any UN activities outside of New York. Thus, unless the WEOG changes its policies, which Israel has requested, it cannot represent the WEOG or any other regional group on the Human Rights Council which persistently judges its conduct.
> 
> Nevertheless, Israel decided to swallow its revulsion at the Councils modus operandi and participate in the Universal Periodic Review session. It candidly admitted its imperfections, but defended its overall human rights record. Israeli ambassador Eviator Manor also pointed out to the Council that Israel has been regularly subject to significant, and often politically motivated, scrutiny over the years, disproportional to the worldwide human rights situation. The promotion of human rights is a just yet complex task in every society  especially in a democratic, multicultural society that constantly confronts terrorism
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel is expected by Falk and the Human Rights Council that he represents to take the persistent terrorist threats it faces lying down. In the world inhabited by the hypocrites who denounce Israel while abusing the human rights of their own residents, Israel is expected to look the other way while the resistance fighters build their tunnels of terror and launch their rockets against Israeli civilians. Fortunately, while Israel was willing to play along with the meaningless Universal Period Review, it shows no inclination to drop its guard or to back away from defending its citizens with whatever means it deems necessary. Hopefully, this will remain true no matter what the UN Human Rights Council may think.
> 
> Israel and the UN Human Rights Council Circus | FrontPage Magazine


Israel treats the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews.

As far as human rights go, that's pretty bad.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Washingtons Will Is Done: Bloody Terrorists Freed*

October 31, 2013 By P. David Hornik






Just after midnight on Wednesday, Israel Hayom reports, 26 Palestinian security prisoners were set free by Israel. Twenty-one were sent to the West Bank, five to Gaza.

All of these prisoners were convicted either of murder or attempted murder. They constitute the second of four groups of 26 prisoners who are being released periodically during the current Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. For Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas, freeing them was an iron-clad condition for entering the talks at all. Israel acceded to it under heavy U.S. pressure, spearheaded by Secretary of State John Kerry.

Palestinians in Ramallah and Gaza, Israel Hayom informs us,

_celebrated the release of the prisoners. The 21 prisoners returning to the West Bank attended an official reception at the Mukataa in Ramallah, whereAbbas greeted them personally._

We welcome our brothers the heroes coming from behind the bars to a world of freedom and liberty, Abbas was quoted as saying.

None of the American diplomatic personnel in Israel attended this reception. That may not seem worth pointing out. Wouldnt it be a diplomatic slap to Israel? And wouldnt it contradict American values to attend a celebratory reception for terrorist killers?

Indeed, it would. But why, then, did it not unacceptably contradict American values to pressure Israel to free them in the first place?

Indeed, these 26 are a nasty lot. Here are just a few examples from a partial list compiled by Israel National News:

...

Just how difficult it has been to get along with the Obama administration on the Iranian issue was evident this week in Kerrys thinly veiled reference to Netanyahus fear tactics.

It may seem like fear tactics to those who split their time between Washington and Marthas Vineyard or Nantucket. To Israelis, the fear induced by batches of freed terrorists and Iranian genocidal threats is quite real. At some points in Israeli history deferring to America has turned out to be more dangerous and costly than not doing so. This may be one of them.

Washington?s Will Is Done: Bloody Terrorists Freed | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Jroc

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel and the UN Human Rights Council Circus*
> 
> October 31, 2013 By Joseph Klein
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> The problem for Israel is that the Human Rights Council, which is dominated by Islamist states and their allies, stacks the deck against Israel, which has been subject to far more condemnations by the Human Rights Council than Iran, Sudan, Syria and other serial human rights violators combined. The Obama administrations decision to join the Human Rights Council, said to be for the purpose of influencing this body from within, has not changed the Councils anti-Israel bias.
> 
> Israel is the only country listed on the Human Rights Councils permanent agenda.  Moreover, it is the only country subjected to an investigatory mandate that examines the actions of only one side to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict  Israel  and presumes the Jewish state to be guilty, while giving Hamas, Hezbollah and their state sponsors a free pass.
> 
> Moreover, Israel is still prevented from actually joining the Human Rights Council itself because it is denied full membership in any regional group of nations, from which the Council members are selected. Geographically, Israel should be a part of the Asian Nations Group, as are its Arab neighbors, but Arab nations who are members of that group have blocked Israel from joining. As a consolation prize, Israel has been relegated to limited membership in a group known as Western Nations and Others (WEOG), which bars Israel from group membership privileges in any UN activities outside of New York. Thus, unless the WEOG changes its policies, which Israel has requested, it cannot represent the WEOG or any other regional group on the Human Rights Council which persistently judges its conduct.
> 
> Nevertheless, Israel decided to swallow its revulsion at the Councils modus operandi and participate in the Universal Periodic Review session. It candidly admitted its imperfections, but defended its overall human rights record. Israeli ambassador Eviator Manor also pointed out to the Council that Israel has been regularly subject to significant, and often politically motivated, scrutiny over the years, disproportional to the worldwide human rights situation. The promotion of human rights is a just yet complex task in every society  especially in a democratic, multicultural society that constantly confronts terrorism
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel is expected by Falk and the Human Rights Council that he represents to take the persistent terrorist threats it faces lying down. In the world inhabited by the hypocrites who denounce Israel while abusing the human rights of their own residents, Israel is expected to look the other way while the resistance fighters build their tunnels of terror and launch their rockets against Israeli civilians. Fortunately, while Israel was willing to play along with the meaningless Universal Period Review, it shows no inclination to drop its guard or to back away from defending its citizens with whatever means it deems necessary. Hopefully, this will remain true no matter what the UN Human Rights Council may think.
> 
> Israel and the UN Human Rights Council Circus | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> Israel treats the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews.
> 
> As far as human rights go, that's pretty bad.
Click to expand...


You're full of shit boy if that were the case there would be no so-called "Palestians"


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> And I said it in full advance awareness that he had said such a thing.
> 
> Reiterating the point struck me as far more important and beneficial than worrying about such minutiae.
> 
> Reiterating that does not negate the validity of the sentiment nor its accuracy nor my perception of his role as a fifth columnist and his practical standing as a turncoat against his own people.
> 
> Benedict Arnold had a real way with words, too.


And what he said was true, they do not want to drive you into the sea.

That's the lie you keep telling yourself, in order to give your life meaning, which is the continued tyranny over Palestinian slaves.


----------



## Billo_Really

Jroc said:


> You're full of shit boy if that were the case there would be no so-called "Palestians"


You're genocide just happens to be slower than theirs, other than that, there's not much of a difference between the two.
You both demonize these groups at every turn.
You both treat them as though they're sub-human.
You both practice ethnic cleansing.
You both blame these groups for all the problems in your country.
You both enact laws that make them 2nd class citizens.
You both feel any violence against them is justified (no matter how heiness the act).
You both think your society is the master race.
You both are taking land by force.
You both think your actions are by Devine right.
You both think you're without sin and have done nothing wrong.​The nazis wanted an Aryian nation, you want a Jewish state.

Is there anything I left out?

Oh yes, the comment by an IDF commander saying you need to be more "judo-nazi" in order to defeat a population that is already defeated.


----------



## Jroc

Billo_Really said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're full of shit boy if that were the case there would be no so-called "Palestians"
> 
> 
> 
> You're genocide just happens to be slower than theirs, other than that, there's not much of a difference between the two.
> You both demonize these groups at every turn.
> You both treat them as though they're sub-human.
> You both practice ethnic cleansing.
> You both blame these groups for all the problems in your country.
> You both enact laws that make them 2nd class citizens.
> You both feel any violence against them is justified (no matter how heiness the act).
> You both think your society is the master race.
> You both are taking land by force.
> You both think your actions are by Devine right.
> You both think you're without sin and have done nothing wrong.​The nazis wanted an Aryian nation, you want a Jewish state.
> 
> Is there anything I left out?
> 
> Oh yes, the comment by an IDF commander saying you need to be more "judo-nazi" in order to defeat a population that is already defeated.
Click to expand...

 you made it funny. So much stupidity no little time..You're a moron


----------



## Billo_Really

Jroc said:


> you made it funny. So much stupidity no little time..You're a moron


How could it be stupid, if it's all true?


----------



## Jroc

Billo_Really said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> you made it funny. So much stupidity no little time..You're a moron
> 
> 
> 
> How could it be stupid, if it's all true?
Click to expand...


Because you say it is? Stupidity is spewed by stupid people. Congratulations you're an expert.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..._Israel treats the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews. As far as human rights go, that's pretty bad._"


Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...


Well, they're already using Willie Peat.

What difference does the method of extermination make?  Dead is dead.  When people are gone, they're gone.

Holocaust victims must be looking at Israel today going, _*"WTF is this shit! I guess my death meant nothing to them?"*_


----------



## Billo_Really

Jroc said:


> Because you say it is? Stupidity is spewed by stupid people. Congratulations you're an expert.


Pick any one of those points I listed and argue it isn't true.

You know god-damn well you  can't, so cut the crap!


----------



## TheBarber

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel treats the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews. As far as human rights go, that's pretty bad._"
> 
> 
> 
> Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...
Click to expand...


Gaza = Warsaw Ghetto.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

TheBarber said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel treats the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews. As far as human rights go, that's pretty bad._"
> 
> 
> 
> Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza = Warsaw Ghetto.
Click to expand...


Really?  Take a look at Gaza, Ali.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJvvkXYD12U]Roots Club - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yraE_MlX1Pc]Fun on the beach at Gaza Summer Games - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTWEM2X54w]Parks Of Gaza - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Really?  Take a look at Gaza, Ali.
> 
> 
> Roots Club - YouTube
> 
> Fun on the beach at Gaza Summer Games - YouTube
> 
> Parks Of Gaza - YouTube


This is more like the reality there, not some IDF propaganda piece...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL4jyxsIxP8]BUILD UP TO WWIII Israeli air strikes in Gaza intensifty - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al0w2cAj_7Y]Israeli air strikes in Gaza enter fourth day - YouTube[/ame]


Here they are hitting a house that killed a 12 year old boy


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26IeC4G_oVo]Child killed in Israeli airstrike - YouTube[/ame]


I guess he won't be going to the mall today?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Gaza is not comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto.  Israel reluctantly pulled out of Gaza in August 2005 in the hope of peace, but all they got is rockets into Israel (a war crime).  Therefore Israel is at war with Gaza who commonly use human shields.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Gaza is not comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto.


Yes it is.  Gazan's can't leave. It's like one big open air prison.



Sweet_Caroline said:


> Israel reluctantly pulled out of Gaza in August 2005 in the hope of peace, but all they got is rockets into Israel (a war crime).


Did they end the illegal and immoral blockade?  No.  

Did they end the weekly air strikes?  No.

Did they stop shooting at people fishing and farming? No.

Israel never left.  They just pulled their troops out of sight, but they still maintain effective control of that entire area.



Sweet_Caroline said:


> Therefore Israel is at war with Gaza who commonly use human shields.


An "occupation", is not a war.

And there is no evidence they used human shields.  That's a bullshit lie!

However, there is a lot of evidence of the IDF's use of "johnnies".



> _Testimony 1  Human Shield
> 
> *People are called Johnnie. Theyre Palestinian civilians in Gaza neighborhoods.* In checking out houses, *we send the neighbor in, the Johnnie, and if there are armed men inside, we (use) pressure cooker procedures*.to get them out alive.to catch the armed men. When necessary, combat helicopters are called in to fire anti-tank missiles at civilian homes. *Then send a Johnnie in to check for dead and wounded. *
> 
> *Human shields were also used to check for booby-traps and perform other services. *Sometimes the force would enter *while placing rifle barrels on a civilians shoulder, advancing into the house and using him as a human shield. *Commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it. _


Walk in with the rifle barrel on their shoulder!

_Back to you..._


----------



## RoccoR

TheBarber,  _et al,_

This is so absurd.



TheBarber said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel treats the Palestinian's, like the nazis treated the jews. As far as human rights go, that's pretty bad._"
> 
> 
> 
> Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gaza = Warsaw Ghetto.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Israel treats the Palestinian according to the threat they represent via the duly elected government that they willing chose.  The Palestinians made a "solemn declaration" that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.  *&#8220;The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out &#8211; man women and child."*  That threat lives on today in the words of the Covenant they actively support and the Charter in which they live.

Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aimed at the liquidation of the Palestinian cause, or at its internationalization. 
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty; ... the call of duty while loudly proclaiming: Hail to Jihad.  Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither."
There is no Arab State, anywhere in the Region, that would not consider such language is anything other then the voice of an enemy (Jihadist and Fedayeen).  They are treated according, and in a manner much fairer than any Arab counterpart would do.

What is the center of their complaint:

The partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and its natural right in their homeland, and were inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.
The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.  The Arab Higher Committee is determined to persist in its rejection of the partition plan and in its refusal to recognize the resolution of the Assembly and &#8220;anything deriving therefrom.
Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit; and is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people.
Israel was constituted in accordance with the UN Partition Plan [Resolution 181(II)] and the Hostile Arab Palestinian have opened a conflict in direct opposition to this UN Plan under which the State of Israel was recognized.

It appear you are confused in terms of comparison.  The Warsaw Ghetto had a death rate of near total extermination.  By contrast, the Gaza Strip has a growing population with a death rate slightly below that of Saudi Arabia and slightly higher then that of Jordan.  One would say there is no comparison at all, let alone an equality between the Warsaw Ghetto and the Gaza Strip.  (A very poor attempt at inflammatory propaganda.)


Warsaw Ghetto (3.4 sq km); The death toll among the Jewish inhabitants of the Ghetto, between deportations to extermination camps, Großaktion Warschau, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, and the subsequent razing of the ghetto, is estimated to be at least 300,000.  The death rate was 93%.  No immigration allowed in the case of any internee.

Gaza Strip (360 sq km); with a population of 1,763,387 (July 2013 est.) and a growth rate of 3.01% (2013 est.); and a Birth rate of 33.27 births/1,000 population (2013 est.).
Death Rate:  3.15/1,000 population.  Gazaian can immigrate according to law, and has border crossings.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is not comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is.  Gazan's can't leave. It's like one big open air prison.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel reluctantly pulled out of Gaza in August 2005 in the hope of peace, but all they got is rockets into Israel (a war crime).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did they end the illegal and immoral blockade?  No.
> 
> Did they end the weekly air strikes?  No.
> 
> Did they stop shooting at people fishing and farming? No.
> 
> Israel never left.  They just pulled their troops out of sight, but they still maintain effective control of that entire area.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore Israel is at war with Gaza who commonly use human shields.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An "occupation", is not a war.
> 
> And there is no evidence they used human shields.  That's a bullshit lie!
> 
> However, there is a lot of evidence of the IDF's use of "johnnies".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Testimony 1 &#8211; Human Shield
> 
> *People are called &#8220;Johnnie. They&#8217;re Palestinian civilians&#8221; in Gaza neighborhoods.* In checking out houses, *&#8220;we send the neighbor in, the &#8216;Johnnie,&#8217; and if there are armed men inside, we (use) &#8216;pressure cooker&#8217; procedures*&#8230;.to get them out alive&#8230;.to catch the armed men.&#8221; When necessary, combat helicopters are called in to fire anti-tank missiles at civilian homes. *Then send a &#8220;Johnnie&#8221; in to check for dead and wounded. *
> 
> *Human shields were also used to check for booby-traps and perform other services. *&#8220;Sometimes the force would enter *while placing rifle barrels on a civilian&#8217;s shoulder, advancing into the house and using him as a human shield. *Commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it.&#8221; _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Walk in with the rifle barrel on their shoulder!
> 
> _Back to you..._
Click to expand...


When was peace declared between Israel and Gaza?  

You know Gazans get medical treatment in Israel don't you.

And you know full well Gazans have used human shields, plus they admit they do and are proud to sacrifice their women, elderly and children.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y&list=PL9E476573C29E7B93]Hamas - Human Shield Confession - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Oqo_wmuGo&list=PL9E476573C29E7B93&index=28]Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> Israel treats the Palestinian according to the threat they represent via the duly elected government that they willing chose.


No one should be punished for a crime they did not commit.  What was the crime Gazan's committed in a legally held, democratic election?  And what gives Israel the right to decide who Gazan's choose to represent them?  And lets not forget, that "duly elected government", was created by the Israeli's.



RoccoR said:


> The Palestinians made a "solemn declaration" that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.  *&#8220;The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out &#8211; man women and child."*  That threat lives on today in the words of the Covenant they actively support and the Charter in which they live.
> 
> Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
> The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aimed at the liquidation of the Palestinian cause, or at its internationalization.
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty; ... the call of duty while loudly proclaiming: Hail to Jihad.  Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither."


Why do you keep bringing that up when Palestinian leaders have said they're willing to accept a two-state solution and that there are parts of their Charter that are outdated and no longer used as policy?



RoccoR said:


> There is no Arab State, anywhere in the Region, that would not consider such language is anything other then the voice of an enemy (Jihadist and Fedayeen).  They are treated according, and in a manner much fairer than any Arab counterpart would do.


Why is it, when that "voice" say's things that are the opposite of an "enemy", they fall on deaf ears?  It seems to me, the only thing you want to hear, is the voice from an enemy.



RoccoR said:


> What is the center of their complaint:
> 
> The partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and its natural right in their homeland, and were inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.


That's a pretty good complaint.  Why can't Israel honor that?



RoccoR said:


> The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.  The Arab Higher Committee is determined to persist in its rejection of the partition plan and in its refusal to recognize the resolution of the Assembly and &#8220;anything deriving therefrom.


It was never a fair offer in the first place.  No one in their right mind would give up 2/3's of their land to someone who just moved into the neighborhood.



RoccoR said:


> Israel was constituted in accordance with the UN Partition Plan [Resolution 181(II)] and the Hostile Arab Palestinian have opened a conflict in direct opposition to this UN Plan under which the State of Israel was recognized.


It's not as simple as that.



RoccoR said:


> It appear you are confused in terms of comparison.  The Warsaw Ghetto had a death rate of near total extermination.  By contrast, the Gaza Strip has a growing population with a death rate slightly below that of Saudi Arabia and slightly higher then that of Jordan.  One would say there is no comparison at all, let alone an equality between the Warsaw Ghetto and the Gaza Strip.


Not according to the "boots on the ground" that were there.



> _Testimony 9 &#8211; Rules of Engagement & House Demolitions
> 
> &#8220;From the onset&#8230;.the brigade commander and other officers made it very clear to us that *any movement must entail gunfire*&#8221; with or without being shot at. Alerts were given about a suicide bomber or sniper in the area, but* &#8220;none of (these) materialized as far as our company was concerned*.&#8221;
> 
> *&#8220;Houses were demolished everywhere.&#8221;* They were fired at &#8220;with tremendous power.* We didn&#8217;t see a single house that remained intact*&#8230;.*The entire infrastructure, tracks, fields, roads (were) in total ruin*.&#8221; D-9 bulldozers *demolished everything &#8220;in our designated area*. It looked awful, *like in those World War II films where nothing remained. A totally destroyed city*.&#8221; _


Like Warsaw.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> When was peace declared between Israel and Gaza?


There have been many ceasefires and Israel broke them all.



Sweet_Caroline said:


> You know Gazans get medical treatment in Israel don't you.


And many Palestinian's have died (on their way to the hospital) at check points, because they were denied passage.



Sweet_Caroline said:


> And you know full well Gazans have used human shields, plus they admit they do and are proud to sacrifice their women, elderly and children.


The Goldstone Report found no evidence of this.



Sweet_Caroline said:


> Hamas - Human Shield Confession - YouTube


That's a bullshit propaganda video I've seen several times and it doesn't say what you think it say's.



Sweet_Caroline said:


> Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields - YouTube


This is another bullshit propaganda video that shows Israel's hypocrisy.

It claims surgical air strikes, but in the link I posted, you have individual IDF soldiers saying they bulldozed down entire neighborhoods.

The video also claims the rocket attempts were deliberately targeting civilian populations.  This is also a crock of shit.  Because, I don't know if you noticed, but those rockets have no guidance systems.  They have no control over where they go (or land).  That's why they're considered war crimes.  They are indescriminate weapons.

Why is it, I can specifically address all your points, but you can't reciprocate?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was peace declared between Israel and Gaza?
> 
> 
> 
> There have been many ceasefires and Israel broke them all.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know Gazans get medical treatment in Israel don't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And many Palestinian's have died (on their way to the hospital) at check points, because they were denied passage.
> 
> The Goldstone Report found no evidence of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas - Human Shield Confession - YouTube
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a bullshit propaganda video I've seen several times and it doesn't say what you think it say's.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields - YouTube
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is another bullshit propaganda video that shows Israel's hypocrisy.
> 
> It claims surgical air strikes, but in the link I posted, you have individual IDF soldiers saying they bulldozed down entire neighborhoods.
> 
> The video also claims the rocket attempts were deliberately targeting civilian populations.  This is also a crock of shit.  Because, I don't know if you noticed, but those rockets have no guidance systems.  They have no control over where they go (or land).  That's why they're considered war crimes.  They are indescriminate weapons.
> 
> Why is it, I can specifically address all your points, but you can't reciprocate?
Click to expand...




Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was peace declared between Israel and Gaza?
> 
> 
> 
> There have been many ceasefires and Israel broke them all.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know Gazans get medical treatment in Israel don't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And many Palestinian's have died (on their way to the hospital) at check points, because they were denied passage.
> 
> The Goldstone Report found no evidence of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas - Human Shield Confession - YouTube
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a bullshit propaganda video I've seen several times and it doesn't say what you think it say's.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields - YouTube
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is another bullshit propaganda video that shows Israel's hypocrisy.
> 
> It claims surgical air strikes, but in the link I posted, you have individual IDF soldiers saying they bulldozed down entire neighborhoods.
> 
> The video also claims the rocket attempts were deliberately targeting civilian populations.  This is also a crock of shit.  Because, I don't know if you noticed, but those rockets have no guidance systems.  They have no control over where they go (or land).  That's why they're considered war crimes.  They are indescriminate weapons.
> 
> Why is it, I can specifically address all your points, but you can't reciprocate?
Click to expand...


1. Show me where Israel have broken ceasefires.  
2. Show me where Palestinians have died while at a checkpoint waiting for treatment in an Israeli hospital.  
3.  Evidence of human shields, (yet again).
Israel Matzav: The Goldstone Commission on human shields: Lies and damned lies
4. Rockets from Gaza to Israel are for anyone who happens to be in the vicinity - military or civilian, hence Code Red sirens in Israel when one is launched from Gaza.  15 - 30 seconds for Israelis to find shelter or safety.


----------



## Jroc

Billo_Really said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because you say it is? Stupidity is spewed by stupid people. Congratulations you're an expert.
> 
> 
> 
> Pick any one of those points I listed and argue it isn't true.
> 
> You know god-damn well you  can't, so cut the crap!
Click to expand...


Boy are you dumb...all the Arabs in Gaza had to do was build a normal, functioning, society,  but instead they chose to elected a terrorist organization to run the place, and to lob rockets onto Israeli citizens (including Arabs) they are being supplied with weapons from Iran among others get your head out of your ass boy, you embarrass yourself


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> No one should be punished for a crime they did not commit. What was the crime Gazan's committed in a legally held, democratic election?


Well, they get what they elect, of course, don't they? Elect Obama - get obamacare. Simple.


Billo_Really said:


> And what gives Israel the right to decide who Gazan's choose to represent them?


Indeed, gazabadians are free to elect anyone, but they tend to forget that collective choices entail collective responsibilities, of course.


Billo_Really said:


> And lets not forget, that "duly elected government", was created by the Israeli's.


This is a sign of the gazabadian immature behavior - they excercise their choice and blame others for it. They just never seem to be growing up, indeed, they wanna be a "nation", while absolving themselves of the national responsibilities. A sure sign they're neither a nation, nor a people, of course.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Beachboy said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Privileged types, sheltered from the Holocaust Camps, living the high life elsewhere, who do not feel their Faith nor their Kindred nor the pull of the Homeland, with little or no actual or emotional stake in the outcome, who would rather Switch than Fight, in large part, quite possibly.
> 
> The 2,000 -year-old habit of keeping your head down like Good Little Dhimmis dies hard.
> 
> The braver and better ones managed to shake off that funk in 1948 and beyond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The moral point of Spielberg's _Munich_ was so silly and ignorable that I enjoyed it as an exciting pro-Mossad action movie.   That spoiled Arab girl going to her expensive piano lessons had her whole lifestyle paid for with the blood of Israeli children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here is the trailer for_ Munich_.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LFfT44BlaQ]Munich [HD 1080p Official Trailer] - YouTube[/ame]​
Click to expand...


I doubt if any Mossad agents have even a trace of the yellow streak that would make them drown themselves in warm and fuzzy false-guilt.   The Nazislamis are pleased with such a Dhimmi movie, but these weakling pushovers can also be shoved into obscurity by us patriots.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Beachboy said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The UN is a petting zoo for decadent Hate Whitey multiculties.*   The League of Nations proved that such an organization never should have been formed.
> 
> Israel doesn't owe its existence to the illegitimate UN.   It owes its existence to the British Mandate and the will, intelligence, and bravery of the Zionists who forced the resurgent Appeasement Generation of British leaders to honor the promise made by the Churchill Generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, oh, looks like my mind is growing again.  The third world is all  over the UN begging, begging, and begging.  They never realize that the  West has what it does because, we built,  built, built.  Third-world Muslims can not control their overpopulation,  or begin to clean up their slums. Can anyone name an accomplishment of Muslims to match the invention of the light bulb, television, or putting a man on the moon.  Until they help themselves, we  should do nothing for them.  That is not a tough political statement,  that is the law of nature.  I bet it is somewhere in the _Qur'an_. ​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


The most significant passage in _Satanic Verses_ was when the Ayatollah condemned science as a mutilation of the perfect world Allah created for us.   The real reason Muslims hate the benefits of scientific progress is that they are genetically incapable of thinking beyond the Stone Age.   Their brief advances in the Middle Ages all came from the Dhimmis they had conquered.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> It must be nice living on a warm and fuzzy planet like Kumbaya.   Did you have to make it Jew-free and White-free before everybody started loving one another and holding hands?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all.  Jews and whites are all completely welcome in my world, because I don't fear other cultures.
Click to expand...


Its neighboring planets refer to Kumbaya as Dim Dhimmiland.


----------



## Peterf

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they're already using Willie Peat.
> 
> What difference does the method of extermination make?  Dead is dead.  When people are gone, they're gone.
> 
> Holocaust victims must be looking at Israel today going, _*"WTF is this shit! I guess my death meant nothing to them?"*_
Click to expand...



You know that Israel is not exterminating Palestinians - who's numbers are growing as others have pointed out.    So why do you keep telling this absurd lie Billo?  Is it that you are a follower of Dr. Goebbles, who was of the the opinion that if one tells a big enough lie, and repeats it often enough,   some people will believe it?


----------



## PrometheusBound

American_Jihad said:


> *Washington&#8217;s Will Is Done: Bloody Terrorists Freed*
> 
> October 31, 2013 By P. David Hornik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just after midnight on Wednesday, Israel Hayom reports, 26 Palestinian security prisoners were set free by Israel. Twenty-one were sent to the West Bank, five to Gaza.
> 
> All of these prisoners were convicted either of murder or attempted murder. They constitute the second of four groups of 26 prisoners who are being released periodically during the current Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. For Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas, freeing them was an iron-clad condition for entering the talks at all. Israel acceded to it under heavy U.S. pressure, spearheaded by Secretary of State John Kerry.
> 
> &#8220;&#8230;Palestinians in Ramallah and Gaza,&#8221; Israel Hayom informs us,
> 
> _celebrated the release of the prisoners. The 21 prisoners returning to the West Bank attended an official reception at the Mukataa in Ramallah, where&#8230;Abbas greeted them personally._
> 
> &#8220;We welcome our brothers the heroes coming from behind the bars to a world of freedom and liberty,&#8221; Abbas was quoted as saying.
> 
> None of the American diplomatic personnel in Israel attended this reception. That may not seem worth pointing out. Wouldn&#8217;t it be a diplomatic slap to Israel? And wouldn&#8217;t it contradict American values to attend a celebratory reception for terrorist killers?
> 
> Indeed, it would. But why, then, did it not unacceptably contradict American values to pressure Israel to free them in the first place?
> 
> Indeed, these 26 are a nasty lot. Here are just a few examples from a partial list compiled by Israel National News:
> 
> ...
> 
> Just how difficult it has been to get along with the Obama administration on the Iranian issue was evident this week in Kerry&#8217;s thinly veiled reference to Netanyahu&#8217;s &#8220;fear tactics.&#8221;
> 
> It may seem like &#8220;fear tactics&#8221; to those who split their time between Washington and Martha&#8217;s Vineyard or Nantucket. To Israelis, the &#8220;fear&#8221; induced by batches of freed terrorists and Iranian genocidal threats is quite real. At some points in Israeli history deferring to America has turned out to be more dangerous and costly than not doing so. This may be one of them.
> 
> Washington?s Will Is Done: Bloody Terrorists Freed | FrontPage Magazine



If we equate retaliation with terrorism, then the Nazislamis have a blank check, just like their Nazi role models had a blank Czech after Munich.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they're already using Willie Peat.
> 
> What difference does the method of extermination make?  Dead is dead.  When people are gone, they're gone.
> 
> Holocaust victims must be looking at Israel today going, _*"WTF is this shit! I guess my death meant nothing to them?"*_
Click to expand...


I dedicate this refrain to all you Dhimmis and to the USMB chorus of "Springtime for Hitler""

Roll me over in the clover,
Roll me over, lay me down, and do it again.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Gaza is not comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto.  Israel reluctantly pulled out of Gaza in August 2005 in the hope of peace, but all they got is rockets into Israel (a war crime).  Therefore Israel is at war with Gaza who commonly use human shields.



Just as it was with the League of Nations, according to the UN when the Jews fight back, it is a war crime.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel treats the Palestinian according to the threat they represent via the duly elected government that they willing chose.
> 
> 
> 
> No one should be punished for a crime they did not commit.  What was the crime Gazan's committed in a legally held, democratic election?  And what gives Israel the right to decide who Gazan's choose to represent them?  And lets not forget, that "duly elected government", was created by the Israeli's.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*
Relative to the:


crime they did not commit:  financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.
(60/288. The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy)



Gazan's choose to represent them:  Terrorist supporting government.  As an example, the 
Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);
PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
The Israel's, nor anyone else, is saying that the Palestinians cannot elect their own government.  What is said is that if the Palestinian People democratically choose to be State Sponsors of Terrorism, there is a consequence.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians made a "solemn declaration" that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.  *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man women and child."*  That threat lives on today in the words of the Covenant they actively support and the Charter in which they live.
> 
> Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
> The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aimed at the liquidation of the Palestinian cause, or at its internationalization.
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty; ... the call of duty while loudly proclaiming: Hail to Jihad.  Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither."
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep bringing that up when Palestinian leaders have said they're willing to accept a two-state solution and that there are parts of their Charter that are outdated and no longer used as policy?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Did they?  Or did they just say they did.

In an article published July 16, 2013 on Felesteen.ps, a website affiliated with Hamas, Hamas Refugee Affairs Department head Dr 'Issam 'Adwan argued that Hamas had the right to attack Israeli embassies and interests as well as senior Israeli officials anywhere in the world. He added that the resistance is also entitled to harm the interests of Israel's allies, headed by the U.S.​
This is the axiom:  The Cause JUSTIFIES the MEANS.  (Terrorist supported by Senior HAMAS Official.)



Billo_Really said:


> Why is it, when that "voice" say's things that are the opposite of an "enemy", they fall on deaf ears?  It seems to me, the only thing you want to hear, is the voice from an enemy.
> 
> That's a pretty good complaint.  Why can't Israel honor that?


*(COMMENT)*

There is a strong case to be made for some of the claims and complaints behind the Palestinian movement.  But their methodology and the strategy of  in pursuit of these cause of actions is both illegal and morally repugnant.

It was a UN Plan, not an Israeli/Jewish Plan.  The establishment of the Jewish State followed the protocols outlined in the UN Plan.



Billo_Really said:


> It was never a fair offer in the first place.  No one in their right mind would give up 2/3's of their land to someone who just moved into the neighborhood.


*(COMMENT)*

Something is wrong with your figures.  Under the Plan, About 77.1% of the original Mandate for Palestine was apportioned to form an Arab State ultimately called the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  That left about 23% remaining.  Of that, about 12.6% was apportioned to the Jewish State with the remaining 10.3% going to the new Arab State. (77.1%+12.6%+10.3%=100%)  That means that over 88% of the land apportionment went to the Arabs in one form or another.  If you compare just the New Arab State to the Jewish State (12.6% to 10.3%) you'll find that works out to about 55% to 45% (not your 2/3's or 66%).  However, this apportionment was overtaken by the events of 1948-49 War and the accumulated impact _(lost ground as a result of foreign Arab Army intervention and HoAP insurrection)_ of the two subsequent wars.



Billo_Really said:


> It's not as simple as that.


*(COMMENT)*

On the contrary, it is that simple.  Israel was constituted in accordance with the UN Partition Plan [Resolution 181(II)] and the Hostile Arab Palestinian have opened a conflict in direct opposition to this UN Plan under which the State of Israel was recognized.



			
				Exceprt 273 (III). Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations said:
			
		

> Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 3/ and 11 December 1948 4/ and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel 5/ before the ad hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions,
> 
> The General Assembly,
> 
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 
> 1.	Decides that Israel is a peace-loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 
> 2.	Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.​
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/RES/273 (III)  11 May 1949





Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appear you are confused in terms of comparison.  The Warsaw Ghetto had a death rate of near total extermination.  By contrast, the Gaza Strip has a growing population with a death rate slightly below that of Saudi Arabia and slightly higher then that of Jordan.  One would say there is no comparison at all, let alone an equality between the Warsaw Ghetto and the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the "boots on the ground" that were there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Testimony 9  Rules of Engagement & House Demolitions
> 
> From the onset.the brigade commander and other officers made it very clear to us that *any movement must entail gunfire* with or without being shot at. Alerts were given about a suicide bomber or sniper in the area, but* none of (these) materialized as far as our company was concerned*.
> 
> *Houses were demolished everywhere.* They were fired at with tremendous power.* We didnt see a single house that remained intact*.*The entire infrastructure, tracks, fields, roads (were) in total ruin*. D-9 bulldozers *demolished everything in our designated area*. It looked awful, *like in those World War II films where nothing remained. A totally destroyed city*. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like Warsaw.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You know as well as I know that the area in question was a very, very small area, identified by Counter Rocket, Artillery, and Mortar (C-RAM) data and Human Intelligence (HUMINT) reports as the point of origin for rocket fire.  The City of Gaza was not totally destroyed.  It was property used as cover and concealment for hostile rocket launchings.

AND, you know that such limited destruction was fully justified and legal under the Geneva Convention.



			
				Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War said:
			
		

> *Article 53 *
> Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, *except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations*.​
> *SOURCE:* ICRC GCIV 12 August 1949



Don't be such a Drama Queen.  They launched rockets indiscriminately and the received the traditional counter-strike.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## PrometheusBound

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> This is another bullshit propaganda video that shows Israel's hypocrisy.
> 
> It claims surgical air strikes, but in the link I posted, you have individual IDF soldiers saying they bulldozed down entire neighborhoods.
> 
> The video also claims the rocket attempts were deliberately targeting civilian populations.  This is also a crock of shit.  Because, I don't know if you noticed, but those rockets have no guidance systems.  They have no control over where they go (or land).  That's why they're considered war crimes.  They are indescriminate weapons.
> 
> Why is it, I can specifically address all your points, but you can't reciprocate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. Show me where Israel have broken ceasefires.
> 2. Show me where Palestinians have died while at a checkpoint waiting for treatment in an Israeli hospital.
> 3.  Evidence of human shields, (yet again).
> Israel Matzav: The Goldstone Commission on human shields: Lies and damned lies
> 4. Rockets from Gaza to Israel are for anyone who happens to be in the vicinity - military or civilian, hence Code Red sirens in Israel when one is launched from Gaza.  15 - 30 seconds for Israelis to find shelter or safety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bluto's getting medical treatment himself.   His quack psychiatrists have convinced him that he can stay young by sticking with the mindset of September 10, 2001 for the rest of his days.   May he Rest in Peace.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wake me up when the Israelis start gassing the Palestinians and cremating their remains...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they're already using Willie Peat...
Click to expand...

Oh, puh-leeeze.



> "..._What difference does the method of extermination make? Dead is dead. When people are gone, they're gone_..."



You claim that the Israelis are treating the Palestinians in the same manner that the Nazis treated the Jews.

Nonsense.

A few hundred or a thousand or two unintentional Palestinian collateral casualties spanning a lengthy timeframe (years) attributable to Israeli Defense Force retaliations and fire-suppression and militia-suppression sorties, can hardly be compared to intentional and well-planned and organized Nazi production-line extermination of Jews, running in the tens of thousands daily.



> "..._Holocaust victims must be looking at Israel today going, 'WTF is this shit! I guess my death meant nothing to them?'_"



Somehow, I seriously doubt that if the Shades of the Holocaust Dead could speak to us, that they would be taking sides with the Muslim-Arab Palestinians against their own children and grandchildren and fellow Jews.


----------



## Billo_Really

Peterf said:


> You know that Israel is not exterminating Palestinians - who's numbers are growing as others have pointed out.    So why do you keep telling this absurd lie Billo?  Is it that you are a follower of Dr. Goebbles, who was of the the opinion that if one tells a big enough lie, and repeats it often enough,   some people will believe it?


I know it's not called "extermination".  I believe the zionists word for it is "transfer".



> _We shall try *to spirit the penniless population across the border *by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country expropriation and *the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly*.
> 
> *Theodor Herzl (1895) - PLAN DALET*_


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Oh, puh-leeeze.
> 
> You claim that the Israelis are treating the Palestinians in the same manner that the Nazis treated the Jews.
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> A few hundred or a thousand or two unintentional Palestinian collateral casualties spanning a lengthy timeframe (years) attributable to Israeli Defense Force retaliations and fire-suppression and militia-suppression sorties, can hardly be compared to intentional and well-planned and organized Nazi production-line extermination of Jews, running in the tens of thousands daily.
> 
> Somehow, I seriously doubt that if the Shades of the Holocaust Dead could speak to us, that they would be taking sides with the Muslim-Arab Palestinians against their own children and grandchildren and fellow Jews.


I listed several comparisons in post #733.  

I challenge anyone, to argue any one of those points, not to be true.


----------



## Billo_Really

Jroc said:


> Boy are you dumb...all the Arabs in Gaza had to do was build a normal, functioning, society,  but instead they chose to elected a terrorist organization to run the place, and to lob rockets onto Israeli citizens (including Arabs) they are being supplied with weapons from Iran among others get your head out of your ass boy, you embarrass yourself


Those rockets are always in response to an Israeli air strike or military action by the IDF.  If Israel doesn't want rockets, then end the occupation.  The occupation is the cause of all the hostility in the region.

Gazan's have a right to elect anyone they fucking please.  Israel does not have the right to punish them, because they didn't like the results of a legal, democratic election.

Keep in mind, that "terrorist organization", was created by Israel.  Funded by Israel.  And supported by Israel, in order to oppose the PA.  It wasn't until it was clear, that organization had no intention of kissing Israel's ass, did Israel turn on them and get hostile.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> 1. Show me where Israel have broken ceasefires.
> 2. Show me where Palestinians have died while at a checkpoint waiting for treatment in an Israeli hospital.
> 3.  Evidence of human shields, (yet again).
> Israel Matzav: The Goldstone Commission on human shields: Lies and damned lies
> 4. Rockets from Gaza to Israel are for anyone who happens to be in the vicinity - military or civilian, hence Code Red sirens in Israel when one is launched from Gaza.  15 - 30 seconds for Israelis to find shelter or safety.


Just give me a second while I go get a couple of beers and I'll tell you all about it.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Billo_Really said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boy are you dumb...all the Arabs in Gaza had to do was build a normal, functioning, society,  but instead they chose to elected a terrorist organization to run the place, and to lob rockets onto Israeli citizens (including Arabs) they are being supplied with weapons from Iran among others get your head out of your ass boy, you embarrass yourself
> 
> 
> 
> Those rockets are always in response to an Israeli air strike or military action by the IDF.  If Israel doesn't want rockets, then end the occupation.  The occupation is the cause of all the hostility in the region.
> 
> Gazan's have a right to elect anyone they fucking please.  Israel does not have the right to punish them, because they didn't like the results of a legal, democratic election.
> 
> Keep in mind, that "terrorist organization", was created by Israel.  Funded by Israel.  And supported by Israel, in order to oppose the PA.  It wasn't until it was clear, that organization had no intention of kissing Israel's ass, did Israel turn on them and get hostile.
Click to expand...


The rockets are NOT always in response to a military action.  In fact, the exact opposite is true.  Military actions are the response to the constant barrage of rockets.  Don't you follow Lipush's posts?  She lives right there.  And Israel HAS no occupational forces in Gaza.  Boy, are you a tool!


----------



## Billo_Really

ForeverYoung436 said:


> The rockets are NOT always in response to a military action.  In fact, the exact opposite is true.  Military actions are the response to the constant barrage of rockets.  Don't you follow Lipush's posts?  She lives right there.  And Israel HAS no occupational forces in Gaza.  Boy, are you a tool!


The rockets started in 2001.  

The occupation started 37 years before that.

And you don't have to have a physical presence in the area in order to constitute an "occupation".  As long as you maintain "effective control" of that area, it is still considered an occupation.  And Israel controls 80% of what goes in to (and out of) Gaza.


----------



## RoccoR

_et al,_

So --- is that the extent of it?   One military operation _(Operation Cast Lead)_ in late 2008 and early 2009!  That --- in response to 2800 rocket and mortars fired into Israel in the year 2008?

v/r
R


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  et al,

This is what we call the "cry baby defense."



Billo_Really said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rockets are NOT always in response to a military action.  In fact, the exact opposite is true.  Military actions are the response to the constant barrage of rockets.  Don't you follow Lipush's posts?  She lives right there.  And Israel HAS no occupational forces in Gaza.  Boy, are you a tool!
> 
> 
> 
> The rockets started in 2001.
> 
> The occupation started 37 years before that.
> 
> And you don't have to have a physical presence in the area in order to constitute an "occupation".  As long as you maintain "effective control" of that area, it is still considered an occupation.  And Israel controls 80% of what goes in to (and out of) Gaza.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Using that logic, when do you count Palestinian Terrorism starting?  Maybe with the admission made by HAMAS and the coming of the martyr Izz ad-din al-Qassam (1920/1930's).  Maybe it starts with the Munich Olympics massacre (1972).  Maybe with the murders of Chaim Weizman and David Bizi (1993).

You can start the clock anywhere.  But that doesn't get us any closer to to a solution.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> 1. Show me where Israel have broken ceasefires.
> 2. Show me where Palestinians have died while at a checkpoint waiting for treatment in an Israeli hospital.
> 3.  Evidence of human shields, (yet again).
> Israel Matzav: The Goldstone Commission on human shields: Lies and damned lies
> 4. Rockets from Gaza to Israel are for anyone who happens to be in the vicinity - military or civilian, hence Code Red sirens in Israel when one is launched from Gaza.  15 - 30 seconds for Israelis to find shelter or safety.


Just give me a second while I go get a couple of beers and I'll tell you all about it. 

Okay, now that I'm back and have powered down a couple beers, I'm ready argue!

As far as your first point...



Sweet_Caroline said:


> 1. Show me where Israel have broken ceasefires.


...this has happened so many times, I'm surprized you even asked.




> _Israeli forces break Gaza ceasefire as Netanyahu outlines his political calculations
> 
> Anwar Qdeih, 23, was shot through the head as he tried to place a Hamas flag on the fence near Khan Younis, in southern Gaza. Around 20 other Palestinians were wounded. Israel claimed to be responding to violent activity by 300 protesters._


So the placement of a flag, is a capital crime?

For over 4 months, Hamas unilaterally honored the ceasefire and rocket attacks went down to virtually zero.  That all changed on December 8, 2008, when the IDF launched a commando raid inside Gaza to kill government leaders.



> _CNN Finally Confirms Israel Broke Ceasefire First_



And Israel has done the same thing in Lebanon.



> _An outlaw state: Israel breaks ceasefire, threatens to assassinate Hezbollah leader
> 
> *Israeli forces on Saturday carried out a flagrant violation of the ceasefire *along the Lebanon-Israel border, as dozens of military commandos attacked the village of Boudai, near Baalbek in the Bekaa Valley of eastern Lebanon. *The raid was the first full-scale breach in the ceasefire between Israeli and Hezbollah forces *in south Lebanon which took effect on Monday, August 14._


There's 3 examples.  But Israel has broken "all" of them.

As for your second point...


Sweet_Caroline said:


> 2. Show me where Palestinians have died while at a checkpoint waiting for treatment in an Israeli hospital.


129 of them, for that matter...


> _Palestinian Health Care Conditions Under Occupation
> 
> According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, 36 health care workers have been killed, 447 health providers have been wounded and *129 patients have died at Israeli checkpoints*.
> 
> approximately *33 per cent of villages within the West Bank will be denied free and open access to their health care system*, per the IHC. Moreover, *81 per cent *of people living in isolated zones and enclaves *cannot access primary health clinics, medical centers, and hospitals as needed*.
> 
> *There are instances where Palestinians need access to urgent medical care, but Israeli forces will not allow Palestinian ambulances to cross the checkpoint.* When this happens Palestinians are forced to transfer to an Israeli ambulance, which costs anywhere from 350 New Israeli Shekels (NIS)  650 NIS ($80 USD  150 USD). _


So much for crossing checkpoints in an emergency.

Now on to your third point....


Sweet_Caroline said:


> 3.  Evidence of human shields, (yet again).
> Israel Matzav: The Goldstone Commission on human shields: Lies and damned lies


Israel claims everything is a lie.  But that's all it is_*..............claims.*_  The Goldstone Report is very detailed and comes complete with all the required citations and corroborating evidence to prove what is stated in the "report" to be valid.  On the Israeli side, all you get is he said/she said hearsay.

If you want me to comment on your link, you need to tell me what specific part of it I'm supposed to address.  I'm not going to go click on it and then try to guess what your point is.

Now on to your fourth point....


Sweet_Caroline said:


> 4. Rockets from Gaza to Israel are for anyone who happens to be in the vicinity - military or civilian, hence Code Red sirens in Israel when one is launched from Gaza.  15 - 30 seconds for Israelis to find shelter or safety.


Although I agree the rockets are war crimes and have condemned their use, that's as far as my empathy goes on this subject.

Gazan's don't have shelters to run to.  And the difference between the destruction from a rocket and the destruction from a missle strike is...


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> This is what we call the "cry baby defense."
> 
> Using that logic, when do you count Palestinian Terrorism starting?  Maybe with the admission made by HAMAS and the coming of the martyr Izz ad-din al-Qassam (1920/1930's).  Maybe it starts with the Munich Olympics massacre (1972).  Maybe with the murders of Chaim Weizman and David Bizi (1993).
> 
> You can start the clock anywhere.  But that doesn't get us any closer to to a solution.


Don't talk to me about cry baby's!  You fuckers whine like  banshees whenever anyone directs criticism you way, no matter how valid it is.

As far as the violence goes, if you wanna go down that road, there was never any recorded incidents of major violence in that area, until the zionists showed up.

You're the cause of it all!  And you refuse to accept responsibility for anything you do.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> So --- is that the extent of it?   One military operation _(Operation Cast Lead)_ in late 2008 and early 2009!  That --- in response to 2800 rocket and mortars fired into Israel in the year 2008?


They waited 37 years before they started lobbing rockets your way.

I think you owe them a "thank you" for their patience.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> crime they did not commit:  financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.
> (60/288. The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy)
> 
> 
> 
> Gazan's choose to represent them:  Terrorist supporting government.  As an example, the
> Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas);
> PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad).
> The Israel's, nor anyone else, is saying that the Palestinians cannot elect their own government.  What is said is that if the Palestinian People democratically choose to be State Sponsors of Terrorism, there is a consequence.


Resisting an illegal and belligerent occupation from a foreign force, is not terrorism.



RoccoR said:


> Did they?  Or did they just say they did.
> 
> In an article published July 16, 2013 on Felesteen.ps, a website affiliated with Hamas, Hamas Refugee Affairs Department head Dr 'Issam 'Adwan argued that Hamas had the right to attack Israeli embassies and interests as well as senior Israeli officials anywhere in the world. He added that the resistance is also entitled to harm the interests of Israel's allies, headed by the U.S.​
> This is the axiom:  The Cause JUSTIFIES the MEANS.  (Terrorist supported by Senior HAMAS Official.)


Over the years, Hamas has moved away from it's terrorist roots. 



> _Denying democratic rights to Hamas
> 
> Unlike some other militant factions such as Islamic Jihad, *Hamas has shown an awareness of present day regional and global realities* by its willingness to terminate its boycott of political institutions under conditions of alien occupation. It regards abandonment of armed struggle as premature, but implicit in its bid for a share of political power is the promise of *accepting Israels right to exist within its pre-1967 borders*._


 You used to say the same thing about Fatah and now you two are butt-buddy's.



RoccoR said:


> There is a strong case to be made for some of the claims and complaints behind the Palestinian movement.  But their methodology and the strategy of  in pursuit of these cause of actions is both illegal and morally repugnant.
> 
> It was a UN Plan, not an Israeli/Jewish Plan.  The establishment of the Jewish State followed the protocols outlined in the UN Plan.


No you didn't.  You just stood up one day and declared yourself a state.

And you didn't follow UN protocals.  Because one of them was the caveat that you could create the state of Israel, as long as you respected the inherent rights of the indigenous population of non-jews. 


> _His Majestys Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> - Arthur James Balfour [Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs]_


But you didn't do that, did ya?



RoccoR said:


> Something is wrong with your figures.  Under the Plan, About 77.1% of the original Mandate for Palestine was apportioned to form an Arab State ultimately called the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  That left about 23% remaining.  Of that, about 12.6% was apportioned to the Jewish State with the remaining 10.3% going to the new Arab State. (77.1%+12.6%+10.3%=100%)  That means that over 88% of the land apportionment went to the Arabs in one form or another.  If you compare just the New Arab State to the Jewish State (12.6% to 10.3%) you'll find that works out to about 55% to 45% (not your 2/3's or 66%).


You own 85% of the land and you're asked to give up 50% of that. That's some deal.


> _In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israels creation.
> 
> Yet, despite these facts, *the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their Jewish State. *The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal._


I don't care how you add up the numbers, the Pals got fucked!



RoccoR said:


> However, this apportionment was overtaken by the events of 1948-49 War and the accumulated impact _(lost ground as a result of foreign Arab Army intervention and HoAP insurrection)_ of the two subsequent wars.


You cannot hold onto land siezed in a war!

How many times do I have to tell you fuckers before this sinks in?



RoccoR said:


> You know as well as I know that the area in question was a very, very small area, identified by Counter Rocket, Artillery, and Mortar (C-RAM) data and Human Intelligence (HUMINT) reports as the point of origin for rocket fire.  The City of Gaza was not totally destroyed.  It was property used as cover and concealment for hostile rocket launchings.


Bulldozing down entire neighborhoods is not a small area.


RoccoR said:


> AND, you know that such limited destruction was fully justified and legal under the Geneva Convention.


Bullshit!  You bombed hospitals.  You shot at first responders.  You bombed their public utilities.  Those are not military necessity targets.



RoccoR said:


> Don't be such a Drama Queen.  They launched rockets indiscriminately and the received the traditional counter-strike.


You don't know what it's like living under an occupation from a foreign force.  So "most respectfully",  shove that drama queen bullshit up your ass!



RoccoR said:


> Most Respectfully


So you "most respectfully" called me a "cry baby" and a "drama queen"?  I get it.  You have my permission to call me anything you want.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So --- is that the extent of it?   One military operation _(Operation Cast Lead)_ in late 2008 and early 2009!  That --- in response to 2800 rocket and mortars fired into Israel in the year 2008?
> 
> 
> 
> They waited 37 years before they started lobbing rockets your way.
> 
> I think you owe them a "thank you" for their patience.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, Rocco, Loinboy should commiserate with his newfound friends and tell them he is sorry that they aren't able to send in suicide bombers any more and have to resort to rockets.   Of course, Loinboy had no problem with the suicide bombers even though they also took out Muslims and Christians too.  What does he care as long as some Jews were taken out also.  Since the Jews are not involved, he doesn't even care that his fellow believerss are taken out in the Muslim world.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what we call the "cry baby defense."
> 
> Using that logic, when do you count Palestinian Terrorism starting?  Maybe with the admission made by HAMAS and the coming of the martyr Izz ad-din al-Qassam (1920/1930's).  Maybe it starts with the Munich Olympics massacre (1972).  Maybe with the murders of Chaim Weizman and David Bizi (1993).
> 
> You can start the clock anywhere.  But that doesn't get us any closer to to a solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't talk to me about cry baby's!  You fuckers whine like  banshees whenever anyone directs criticism you way, no matter how valid it is.
> 
> As far as the violence goes, if you wanna go down that road, there was never any recorded incidents of major violence in that area, until the zionists showed up.
> 
> You're the cause of it all!  And you refuse to accept responsibility for anything you do.
Click to expand...

Rocco, I think you realize that many of us feel that you must have done a top notch job when you were in military intelligence, and it is quite admirable all the research you have put into the subject of the Israel/Palestine conflict from respectable sources.  However, you will get people like Loinboy and his foul mouth disagreeing with anything you have to say because he doesn't want to hear the truth.  With all his babbling about the "evil Jews/Israelis," I can just imagine the names he and his friends sitting at his favorite bar in Long Beach call the Arabs.  No one is claiming the Israel is a perfect country since no country in the world is perfect, but Loinboy and his fellow travelers have no interest in what is happening in the rest of the Middle East as well as the entire Muslim world because what is happening in that region doesn't involved the Jews.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Rocco, I think you realize that many of us feel that you must have done a top notch job when you were in military intelligence, and it is quite admirable all the research you have put into the subject of the Israel/Palestine conflict from respectable sources. .


 I will give him credit in as much as he walks his talk and makes an honest effort to debate an issue the way it's normally done (making a claim, then backing it up with corroborative citations and addressing specific opposing points).  The rest of you fuckers are a bunch of trolls thinking you can get away with playing word games.



Hossfly said:


> However, you will get people like Loinboy and his foul mouth disagreeing with anything you have to say because he doesn't want to hear the truth.


Now you're just making shit up.



Hossfly said:


> With all his babbling about the "evil Jews/Israelis,".


No, it's just Israeli's (and zionists).



Hossfly said:


> I can just imagine the names he and his friends sitting at his favorite bar in Long Beach call the Arabs. .


I told you before, people don't talk politics in bars, they talk sports.




Hossfly said:


> No one is claiming the Israel is a perfect country since no country in the world is perfect, .


Stop right there!  Name 3 things that is wrong with Israel.




Hossfly said:


> but Loinboy.


Loinboy's dead!  You're talking to me now!



Hossfly said:


> and his fellow travelers have no interest in what is happening in the rest of the Middle East as well as the entire Muslim world...


Because that's not the topic of the OP.



Hossfly said:


> because what is happening in that region doesn't involved the Jews.


And neither does this thread or any of my posts.  If you can recognize other conflicts in the muslim world doesn't involve jews, WTF do you keep dumping them into my arguments?  I've told you repeatedly this has nothing to do with Judaism, but you keep trying to interject it into the debate.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Perhaps, Rocco, Loinboy should commiserate with his newfound friends and tell them he is sorry that they aren't able to send in suicide bombers any more and have to resort to rockets.   Of course, Loinboy had no problem with the suicide bombers even though they also took out Muslims and Christians too.  What does he care as long as some Jews were taken out also.  Since the Jews are not involved, he doesn't even care that his fellow believerss are taken out in the Muslim world.


There you go, right on time, trying to hijack the thread into another topic.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, Rocco, Loinboy should commiserate with his newfound friends and tell them he is sorry that they aren't able to send in suicide bombers any more and have to resort to rockets.   Of course, Loinboy had no problem with the suicide bombers even though they also took out Muslims and Christians too.  What does he care as long as some Jews were taken out also.  Since the Jews are not involved, he doesn't even care that his fellow believerss are taken out in the Muslim world.
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, right on time, trying to hijack the thread into another topic.
Click to expand...

Really???  I guess you don't connect the constant shooting of the rockets with their inability to send in suicide bombers.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, I think you realize that many of us feel that you must have done a top notch job when you were in military intelligence, and it is quite admirable all the research you have put into the subject of the Israel/Palestine conflict from respectable sources. .
> 
> 
> 
> I will give him credit in as much as he walks his talk and makes an honest effort to debate an issue the way it's normally done (making a claim, then backing it up with corroborative citations and addressing specific opposing points).  The rest of you fuckers are a bunch of trolls thinking you can get away with playing word games.
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, you will get people like Loinboy and his foul mouth disagreeing with anything you have to say because he doesn't want to hear the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you're just making shit up.
> 
> No, it's just Israeli's (and zionists).
> 
> I told you before, people don't talk politics in bars, they talk sports.
> 
> 
> Stop right there!  Name 3 things that is wrong with Israel.
> 
> 
> Loinboy's dead!  You're talking to me now!
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> and his fellow travelers have no interest in what is happening in the rest of the Middle East as well as the entire Muslim world...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because that's not the topic of the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> because what is happening in that region doesn't involved the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And neither does this thread or any of my posts.  If you can recognize other conflicts in the muslim world doesn't involve jews, WTF do you keep dumping them into my arguments?  I've told you repeatedly this has nothing to do with Judaism, but you keep trying to interject it into the debate.
Click to expand...

Loinboy really thinks he is fooling the readers that he really, really cares about the Arabs and those evil Zionists (which of course means most Jews and millions and millions of Christians and, horror of horrors, even some Hindus and Ahmadi Muslims)) are not doing them right..  Whatever name you go under, Loinboy, you still can't seem to restrain yourself from throwing out your vulgarities.  It's like a trademark of yours.  Have another drink.  It might make you feel more mellow.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..._Don't talk to me about cry baby's! You fuckers whine like  banshees whenever anyone directs criticism you way, no matter how valid it is_..."


What the hell is wrong with you?

Rocco is quite probably in the upper 10% of all posters on USMB, when it comes to respectful interaction with his colleagues.

You seem to be rapidly headed towards the bottom 10% in that context.

Lighten-the-fuck-up, 'K?


----------



## Jroc

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Don't talk to me about cry baby's! You fuckers whine like  banshees whenever anyone directs criticism you way, no matter how valid it is_..."
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is wrong with you?
> 
> Rocco is quite probably in the upper 10% of all posters on USMB, when it comes to respectful interaction with his colleagues.
> 
> You seem to be rapidly headed towards the bottom 10% in that context.
> 
> Lighten-the-fuck-up, 'K?
Click to expand...


He's a bottom dweller


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> What the hell is wrong with you?


I take issue with the fact he inferred I was a "cry baby" and "drama queen" and you want to know what's wrong with "me"?

I don't know what planet you're on, but in my world, saying that to someone, is pretty disrespectful.



Kondor3 said:


> Rocco is quite probably in the upper 10% of all posters on USMB, when it comes to respectful interaction with his colleagues.


I agree.



Kondor3 said:


> You seem to be rapidly headed towards the bottom 10% in that context.


And why is that?



Kondor3 said:


> Lighten-the-fuck-up, 'K?


After everything you just laid down, you end it with that!

I guess I'll have to, 'cause that's funny!


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Loinboy really thinks he is fooling the readers that he really, really cares about the Arabs and those evil Zionists...


How many times have I told you I don't give a shit about either side?

How many more times do I need to tell you, before you stop lying about it?


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is wrong with you?
> 
> 
> 
> I take issue with the fact he inferred I was a "cry baby" and "drama queen" and you want to know what's wrong with "me"? I don't know what planet you're on, but in my world, saying that to someone, is pretty disrespectful..."
Click to expand...

It's not Rocco's fault that you come-across like that sometimes.



> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> _You seem to be rapidly headed towards the bottom 10% in that context. _
> 
> 
> 
> _And why is that?_
Click to expand...


You don't score high on the Respectfulness Scale when you're constantly calling your adversary-colleagues 'you fuckers'.

The mere need to explain such an obvious connection raises an eyebrow.



> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lighten-the-fuck-up, 'K?
> 
> 
> 
> _After everything you just laid down, you end it with that! I guess I'll have to, 'cause that's funny_!
Click to expand...


What else was there to say?

The outburst against Rocco - coupled with your routine aggressive-foul language directed towards several other colleagues - smacks of dogma and drips contempt for your peers.

It is the fate of Guardhouse Lawyers than they must always try to get-in the last word and that they can only rarely discern their own culpability.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> It's not Rocco's fault that you come-across like that sometimes.


It's absolutely his fault.  It's 100% his fault.  I am not responsible, for the reactions people "choose" to have, in response to my posts.  His perception of who I am, or what I say, is whatever he chooses that to be.

And quite frankly, it's not my fault he calls me names.



Kondor3 said:


> You don't score high on the Respectfulness Scale when you're constantly calling your adversary-colleagues 'you fuckers'.
> 
> The mere need to explain such an obvious connection raises an eyebrow.


What's wrong with that?  It's not anti-semitic.



Kondor3 said:


> What else was there to say?


Maybe a_ "thank you *billo *for raising our conciousness, being the wind under out wings and a force of good in the world..."_

Should I go on?



Kondor3 said:


> The outburst against Rocco - coupled with your routine aggressive-foul language directed towards several other colleagues - smacks of dogma and drips contempt for your peers.


That's nothing compared to how _you fu...._I mean.....enlightened ones treat anyone who criticizes Israel. 

 Just look how much contempt you have for me, because I objected to being called names?



Kondor3 said:


> It is the fate of Guardhouse Lawyers than they must always try to get-in the last word and that they can only rarely discern their own culpability.


Thank God, I'm not a lawyer.


----------



## Peterf

Billo_Really said:


> Peterf said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know that Israel is not exterminating Palestinians - who's numbers are growing as others have pointed out.    So why do you keep telling this absurd lie Billo?  Is it that you are a follower of Dr. Goebbles, who was of the the opinion that if one tells a big enough lie, and repeats it often enough,   some people will believe it?
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's not called "extermination".  I believe the zionists word for it is "transfer".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _We shall try *to spirit the penniless population across the border *by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country expropriation and *the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly*.
> 
> *Theodor Herzl (1895) - PLAN DALET*_
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The reason it's not called "extermination" is because it is not extermination.

Jews DO NOT intend to exterminate Arabs.   Arabs DO intend to exterminate Jews.  No sensible discussion can take place unless these two central facts are kept in mind.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

Ooops, let's roll back here a minute.



Billo_Really said:


> I take issue with the fact he inferred I was a "cry baby" and "drama queen" and you want to know what's wrong with "me"?
> 
> I don't know what planet you're on, but in my world, saying that to someone, is pretty disrespectful.


*(COMMENT)*

First, let's go back to the Post 759 and examine the intent.   
I said:    Don't be such a Drama Queen. They launched rockets indiscriminately and the(y) received the traditional counter-strike. (From Post #759)

The discussion was about how you were comparing the events of Operation Cast Lead in the northern Gaza Strip to scenes in WWII.  My intent, with the term "Drama Queen" was to suggest that you were being a little over "melodramatic" in your comparison ("like in those World War II films") which was bolded.  In retrospect, maybe I should have used the phrase:  a little over "melodramatic"...  But given the context of the discussion, I hardly think the exchange was "pretty disrespectful."  But in future, I'll take your sensitivity into account.​
Second, let's go back to Post #769.
I said:  This is what we call the "cry baby defense." (From Post #769).  

Notice it was in quotation marks.  It doesn't apply to you specifically, but describes they type of defense tactic being used.  There are several different types of "cry baby defenses."  In this context it describes the case where two kids fight over the same toy.  

The mother gives Child "A" a toy to play with.  Child "B" says the mother had no right to give Childs "A" the toy, and starts a fight with Child "B".    Child "B" thrashes Child "A" pretty severely and takes a second toy.  Child "B" then runs to the mother and complains.

In this case, the UN gave the right of self-determination over apportioned territory to the Jewish People.  The Arab People came by and said, the UN had no right to do that.  The Arab People start a fight with the Jewish People.  The Arab People are severely thrashed, and in the process loss more control.  The Arab People run back to the UN and say that the Jewish People are in violation of the law that we don't recognize in the UN.​
Rather than run through that whole story, we call it the "cry baby defense."  It was a description of the tactic, and not directed at you, specifically or personally. ​
In most all responses, I focus on the content and NOT the contributor.  I rarely resort to name calling, although I have slipped now and then.

As I wipe my "crocodile tears" from my face, I hope I've made my position clear and clarified both these instances.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

Peterf said:


> The reason it's not called "extermination" is because it is not extermination.


Israel, is trying to "ethnically cleanse" the entire area of Palestinian's.

That's pretty exterminating!



Peterf said:


> Jews DO NOT intend to exterminate Arabs.   Arabs DO intend to exterminate Jews.  No sensible discussion can take place unless these two central facts are kept in mind.


This is not a religious issue.  It's not about jews and arabs.  It's a political issue between Israeli's and Palestinian's. You just want to keep it about jews and arabs, because you can't deal with the Israeli governments gross violations of human rights and international law.



> _Israel&#8217;s Deplorable Human Rights Record
> 
> Israel denies Arab citizens fundamental rights. Activist Jews face harsh treatment. Israeli viciousness reflects official policy.
> 
> Occupied Palestinians fare worst. Militarized occupation harshness brutalizes them ruthlessly. Netanyahu exceeds Sharonian evil.
> 
> Palestine is an isolated prison. Besieged Gaza is the world&#8217;s largest open-air one. *An entire population is being suffocated out of existence.*
> 
> *Since 1948, Palestinians endured virtually every form of indignity, degradation and crime against humanity. *They face daily abuses too great to ignore._


If arabs really wanted to wipe out jews, why is it, Israel's the one always breaking the ceasefires?


----------



## TheBarber

Billo_Really said:


> *Israel, is trying to "ethnically cleanse" the entire area of Palestinian's.*


They're just cleaning up the evil doers and making the neighbourhood worth living in.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> First, let's go back to the Post 759 and examine the intent.
> I said:    Don't be such a Drama Queen. They launched rockets indiscriminately and the(y) received the traditional counter-strike. (From Post #759)
> 
> The discussion was about how you were comparing the events of Operation Cast Lead in the northern Gaza Strip to scenes in WWII.  My intent, with the term "Drama Queen" was to suggest that you were being a little over "melodramatic" in your comparison ("like in those World War II films") which was bolded.  In retrospect, maybe I should have used the phrase:  a little over "melodramatic"...  But given the context of the discussion, I hardly think the exchange was "pretty disrespectful."  But in future, I'll take your sensitivity into account.​


First off, I was just using those terms to make a point with *Kondor3*, who seemed to be a little overly selective in his evaluation, not because I found the terms particularly offensive.  

What I did find offensive, was the cavalier way at which you dismissed the comparison with the carnege of WWII.  I should also note, that was not "my" comparison, those were the words of a member of the IDF who took part in Cast Lead and was describing what he saw and what they did.  You can't get anymore credible than an eye-witness account from the ones pulling the trigger.

You (who wasn't there), called him (an IDF member who was there), a "drama queen", because he described the carnege as being similar to the destruction of WWII.  I wasn't there as well, but if that's what he said he saw, I think it would require more respect on our part, than what you showed.  That's just my take on that.



RoccoR said:


> Second, let's go back to Post #769.
> I said:  This is what we call the "cry baby defense." (From Post #769).
> 
> Notice it was in quotation marks.  It doesn't apply to you specifically, but describes they type of defense tactic being used.  There are several different types of "cry baby defenses."  In this context it describes the case where two kids fight over the same toy.
> 
> The mother gives Child "A" a toy to play with.  Child "B" says the mother had no right to give Childs "A" the toy, and starts a fight with Child "B".    Child "B" thrashes Child "A" pretty severely and takes a second toy.  Child "B" then runs to the mother and complains.
> 
> In this case, the UN gave the right of self-determination over apportioned territory to the Jewish People.  The Arab People came by and said, the UN had no right to do that.  The Arab People start a fight with the Jewish People.  The Arab People are severely thrashed, and in the process loss more control.  The Arab People run back to the UN and say that the Jewish People are in violation of the law that we don't recognize in the UN.​
> Rather than run through that whole story, we call it the "cry baby defense."  It was a description of the tactic, and not directed at you, specifically or personally. ​
> In most all responses, I focus on the content and NOT the contributor.  I rarely resort to name calling, although I have slipped now and then.
> 
> As I wipe my "crocodile tears" from my face, I hope I've made my position clear and clarified both these instances.


Now this I find particularly disgusting, condescending and the analogy wrong.  To equate the issue of the Palestinian's being stripped of their right to self-determination, with a couple of children fighting over a toy, is extremely insensitive.

As far as the accuracy of your analogy, you claimed... 


RoccoR said:


> ...the UN gave the right of self-determination over apportioned territory to the Jewish People.  The Arab People came by and said, the UN had no right to do that.


Now let's go back to post #773, where I made it clear, that was not the case, by posting the comment from Lord Balfour regarding the caveat of "the Mandate", that the jews only had that "right" to create a jewish state, if they did it without disenfranchising the indigenous, non-jew population in that area. 

Since you refuse to address that, I'll post his comment again...



> _His Majestys Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object,* it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> - Arthur James Balfour [Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs]_


 *"...existing non-jewish communities..."*


*"...existing non-jewish communities..."*


*"...existing non-jewish communities..."*

Those were Lord Balfour's words and I want it to sink in, because that is prima facia evidence that the "arabs" didn't just "come by".  They were there.  And have been for generations.  They have the right to self-determination, which has been codified in several UN resolutions.

This issue is much, much larger, than two siblings fighting.

And finally, on a personal note, I like you.  I also respect the way you debate, even if I do disagree with it's content.  We definately need more people like you on this board.

Have a nice day!


----------



## Billo_Really

TheBarber said:


> They're just cleaning up the evil doers and making the neighbourhood worth living in.


Oh.  In that case, my bad.

Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> Peterf said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason it's not called "extermination" is because it is not extermination.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, is trying to "ethnically cleanse" the entire area of Palestinian's. That's pretty exterminating!
Click to expand...

Who's "palestinian's"?


Billo_Really said:


> Since 1948, Palestinians endured virtually every form of indignity, degradation and crime against humanity. They face daily abuses too great to ignore. If arabs really wanted to wipe out jews, why is it, Israel's the one always breaking the ceasefires?


Who made that up?


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> Those were Lord Balfour's words and I want it to sink in, because that is prima facia evidence that the "arabs" didn't just "come by".  They were there.  And have been for generations.


"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill in 1939.
Some _generations_, indeed.


Billo_Really said:


> They have the right to self-determination, which has been codified in several UN resolutions.


All they want is to walk into some jewish home and take it over, of course.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Peterf said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason it's not called "extermination" is because it is not extermination.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, is trying to "ethnically cleanse" the entire area of Palestinian's.
> 
> That's pretty exterminating!
Click to expand...


Not really.

If they massacre all the Muslim-Arab Palestinians and shovel them into the ground, that's Extermination.

If they push them off the land and send them packing to Jordan, Lebanon, et al, that's Expulsion.

Call it pay-back for the Muslims forcing-out the Jews in many of their countries in the period 1948-1975.



> "..._This is not a religious issue. It's not about jews and arabs. It's a political issue between Israeli's and Palestinian's_..."



I believe the entire macro-level struggle is BOTH political AND religious in nature; beginning (in the mid-to-late 19th, and re-initializing again in 1947-1949), as a purely secular, political and land-ownership dispute, and quickly degenerating into an clouded-over hybrid which includes a strong religious component; deeply ingrained and long established.



> "..._You just want to keep it about jews and arabs, because you can't deal with the Israeli governments gross violations of human rights and international law_..."



People use 'Jews' and 'Israelis' interchangeably in an Israeli-Palestinian Conflict context, just as they use 'Arabs' and 'Palestinians' or 'Muslims and Palestinians' interchangeably in that same context; a slip in accuracy but commonplace enough and not likely to be based on insidious attempts at masking and deflection.



> "..._Israel denies Arab citizens fundamental rights_..."



Most, if not all, inconsistencies in the treatment of Arab-Muslim citizens of Israel have been resolved at-law in recent years, based on my modest second-hand understanding of events as they have unfolded there.

Arab-Muslim residents of the West Bank and Gaza, on the other hand, are NOT citizens of Israel; in large part, this was a choice that they made by choosing the wrong side; repeatedly. They are an Enemy Population who are geographically constrained and kept separate from Israelis in order to enhance the safety of Jewish Israeli citizens. Civilizations great and small have been keeping Barbarians outside the gates and on the other side of The Wall for thousands of years; a time-honored and largely successful survival tactic.



> "..._Activist Jews face harsh treatment_..."



No doubt. Fifth-columnists, traitors and those who would offer their backsides to The Enemy are usually held in great contempt and treated as potentially dangerous weakeners of a strong collective will to see a thing through. No surprise there. Probably deserved in some cases, and undeserved in others.



> "..._Israeli viciousness reflects official policy_..."



In order to make omelettes, ya gotta break a few eggs. This is grown-up stuff, not the kiddie matinee, with the existence of Israel at-stake. No room for surrender-monkeys, half-measures, or silly, simpering kumbaya-my-lord sentiments in the realm of operative thought.



> "..._Occupied Palestinians fare worst_..."



They chose poorly. Repeatedly. Poor choices have consequences. If they don't like them, they had best pack-up and leave, and go live someplace else that (a) wants them and (b) offers a prospect for a peaceful, happy life amongst their own kind.



> "..._Militarized occupation harshness brutalizes them ruthlessly_..."



In truth, they're not 'occupied' so much as 'walled-off' and 'walled-out' where they can do less harm and damage to Jewish Israel.



> "..._Netanyahu exceeds Sharonian evil_..."



If, by that, you mean that Netanyahu has been obliged to make even more unpleasant and unpalatable choices in order to protect Jewish Israelis, than Sharron was obliged to do, then, there may be a ring of truth to the observation, although we disagree on the sort of verbiage that should be applied to such choices and their outcomes.



> "..._Palestine is an isolated prison. Besieged Gaza is the world&#8217;s largest open-air one_..."



Perhaps, then, they should have made different choices while they still could.

Looks like Intifada I and II ended-up backfiring on the Palestinians after all, eh?

They'd be a far happier lot today if they had not conducted long-term suicide-bombing campaigns and rocket-barrage campaigns.

Too late, now.



> "..._An entire population is being suffocated out of existence_..."



Not really. But they *ARE*, apparently, being squeezed out of Palestine, slowly bur surely.

Theirs is a truly Lost Cause and there's no point hanging-about. The Israeli-Jews have won the Battle for Palestine. The Arab-Muslims have lost. It's as simple as that.

Any Muslim-Arab Palestinian in the West Bank or Gaza with an ounce of brains and two shekels to rub together needs to get himself and his family the hell outta there.

Like the Jews kicked out of Muslim countries, the Muslims of the West Bank and Gaza are no longer welcome.

Best to go where you're wanted, or at least similar in ethnicity and religion and politics and culture to your neighbors.



> "..._Since 1948, Palestinians endured virtually every form of indignity, degradation and crime against humanity. They face daily abuses too great to ignore..." _



So it oftentimes seems, to those on the Losing Side of a turf-battle; especially when the Losing Side continues to conduct pointles guerrilla warfare operations long after the matter has been decided and long after any Sane People would have acknowledged such a Reality.



> "..._If arabs really wanted to wipe out jews, why is it, Israel's the one always breaking the ceasefires?_"



The two [ _(1) Arabs wanting to wipe-out the Jews, and (2) Israel's own contributions to breaking-the-peace_ ] are largely disconnected in this narrow context.

The Muslim-Arabs of the region, including the Palestinians, do, indeed, want to wipe-out the Jews, or, at a minimum, the Jewish-controlled State of Israel... it's just that they don't have the muscle to carry-out their desires.

Lord knows they've tried, repeatedly.. and failed, repeatedly.

As to Israel breaking the peace... well... there are two sides to every such story, and, although I"m sure we can find a fair number of micro-level examples of such, and even a macro-level example or two (if one counts preemptive strikes against massing war-assets to be a breaking-of-the-peace), but, generally speaking, on the macro-level, Israeli violence against Palestinians is largely reactive rather than proactive.

They have enough troubles of their own (including PR troubles, thanks to spin-doctoring and Muslim propaganda efforts and Muslim-sympathizers) to go about foolishly creating any more than is absolutely necessary. They react to Palestinian guerrilla warfare actions and provocations far more often than they initiate localized hostilities.

This does not, of course, count 'fence shootings' and the like.

If you don't want to get shot, keep your ass away from the Fence or Wall, and don't go phukking-around taunting or provoking the border guards or stupidly giving them excuses to take pot-shots at you.

Discounting the occasional individual psychotic Israeli border guard who meanly shoots at someone on the other side of The Wall without proper reason (and there are bound to be a few in every bunch)...

Generally speaking, Israel doesn't start those localized brawls, but it does usually end them... as it needs to... through the use of overwhelming reactive force.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "... Just look how much contempt you have for me, because I objected to being called names?..."


I do not hold you in contempt. If I did, there would be no room for ambiguity.



> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the fate of Guardhouse Lawyers than they must always try to get-in the last word and that they can only rarely discern their own culpability.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God, I'm not a lawyer.
Click to expand...


A Guardhouse Lawyer in such a metaphorical context may be loosely defined as an amateur who tries to lord it above others and insists that his view and mastery of the material is superior to that of his fellows and who is largely unwilling to accept criticism and who will endlessly counterpoint such criticisms and who must always get-in the last word about either the subject matter or such criticisms.

I am still trying to decide whether you are a Guardhouse Lawyer or whether my adversarial stance on the Israel-Palestine issue is clouding my judgment about you a wee bit too much.

Your recent conciliatory dialogue with Rocco stands in your favor; not that what I think of you matters a damn in the larger scheme of things. That last bit was well done, given the rough start to the sequence.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

Humm, yes --- 



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I wipe my "crocodile tears" from my face, I hope I've made my position clear and clarified both these instances.
> 
> 
> 
> Now this I find particularly disgusting, condescending and the analogy wrong.  To equate the issue of the Palestinian's being stripped of their right to self-determination, with a couple of children fighting over a toy, is extremely insensitive.
> 
> As far as the accuracy of your analogy, you claimed...
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the UN gave the right of self-determination over apportioned territory to the Jewish People.  The Arab People came by and said, the UN had no right to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now let's go back to post #773, where I made it clear, that was not the case, by posting the comment from Lord Balfour regarding the caveat of "the Mandate", that the jews only had that "right" to create a jewish state, if they did it without disenfranchising the indigenous, non-jew population in that area.
> 
> Since you refuse to address that, I'll post his comment again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _His Majestys Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object,* it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> - Arthur James Balfour [Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs]_
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There are two kinds of rights mentioned here.  

civil rights
non political in nature
the rights without regard to sex, race, or religion
rights of personal liberty that belong to an individual

religious rights
free exercise thereof
prohibiting discrimination


The establishment of the Jewish National Home and the establishment of the Jewish State have not interfered with these rights.  They are political constructs.

The Arab Palestinian was not stripped of its right to self-determination.  It chose conflict over peace.  It chose to reject rather than participate.

Most Respectfully
R


----------



## pbel

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> Humm, yes ---
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I wipe my "crocodile tears" from my face, I hope I've made my position clear and clarified both these instances.
> 
> 
> 
> Now this I find particularly disgusting, condescending and the analogy wrong.  To equate the issue of the Palestinian's being stripped of their right to self-determination, with a couple of children fighting over a toy, is extremely insensitive.
> 
> As far as the accuracy of your analogy, you claimed...
> Now let's go back to post #773, where I made it clear, that was not the case, by posting the comment from Lord Balfour regarding the caveat of "the Mandate", that the jews only had that "right" to create a jewish state, if they did it without disenfranchising the indigenous, non-jew population in that area.
> 
> Since you refuse to address that, I'll post his comment again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _His Majestys Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object,* it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> 
> - Arthur James Balfour [Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs]_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are two kinds of rights mentioned here.
> 
> civil rights
> non political in nature
> the rights without regard to sex, race, or religion
> rights of personal liberty that belong to an individual
> 
> religious rights
> free exercise thereof
> prohibiting discrimination
> 
> 
> The establishment of the Jewish National Home and the establishment of the Jewish State have not interfered with these rights.  They are political constructs.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian was not stripped of its right to self-determination.  It chose conflict over peace.  It chose to reject rather than participate.
> 
> Most Respectfully
> R
Click to expand...

Rocco, again you claim that the establishment of a "Jewish National Home" is somehow legitimate although the owners and people who resided on that land had no voice in its establishment...Can you give us an example where in the history of humankind this happened with the consent of the displaced population?


----------



## RoccoR

pbel, _et al,_

And again, you _(as well as others)_ are making a connection between "sovereignty" and "land ownership" and "residency."

Second, the displacement of the population is a secondary outcome, not associated with the action of "sovereignty" ---- BUT, that the sovereignty was the proximate cause.  _(I'll go into this below.) _



pbel said:


> Rocco, again you claim that the establishment of a "Jewish National Home" is somehow legitimate although the owners and people who resided on that land had no voice in its establishment...Can you give us an example where in the history of humankind this happened with the consent of the displaced population?


*(COMMENT)*

First, lets discuss the change in "sovereignty."  _(You asked for examples and the voice of land owners and residency.)_  These are just a few examples.


Alaska acquisition of America by the United States from the Russian Empire in the year 1867.  Neither the Russian citizens or the indigenous inhabitants had a say in the matter.  It was an arrangement between sovereign powers. 

The Philippines became a territory of the United States after the Spanish-American War. Under the December 10, 1898 Treaty of Paris, Spain ceded the islands to the United States for $20 million. In 1935 the Philippines became a self-governing commonwealth. Japan took over the country from 1942-1944, but the United States regained the islands in 1945, and full independence was granted in July, 1946.  Again, the Philippine nationals or other indigenous inhabitants had no say in the matter of the transfer of sovereignty from Spain to the US.

The Hawaiian Kingdom went through several stages, first after the multination bloodless _coup d'état_ that deposed Queen Lili'uokalani, the Federal Government set up an independent republic.    

A change in sovereignty does not always mean a change in civil rights or land ownership.  One of the most startling examples, still in contest today, was the acquisition of Puerto Rico.  In 1998, the conflict between the United States and Spain ended with Spain ceding Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to the United States following the Spanish-American War.  And Again, the Puerto Rican nationals had no say in the matter.  It was an arrangement between sovereign powers.  Oddly enough, while the US has entertained the idea of statehood, and allotted funds to hold a referendum by the Puerto Ricans, the Governor, Alejandro García Padilla, is allegedly trying to dissuade Congress (this year) from promoting statehood.​
The issue of displacement of the population is a secondary outcome, relative to the relationship between the distinct population types.  In the case of the Arab Palestinian, long before apportionment, a running conflict had erupted between the two cultures.  And it was this conflict that is the proximate cause of the displacement.  When two cultures have irreconcilable differences, emphasis on "irreconcilable," then it leads to the types of conflicts we have seen relative to the Israeli-Palestinian relationship.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## pbel

RoccoR said:


> pbel, _et al,_
> 
> And again, you _(as well as others)_ are making a connection between "sovereignty" and "land ownership" and "residency."
> 
> Second, the displacement of the population is a secondary outcome, not associated with the action of "sovereignty" ---- BUT, that the sovereignty was the proximate cause.  _(I'll go into this below.) _
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, again you claim that the establishment of a "Jewish National Home" is somehow legitimate although the owners and people who resided on that land had no voice in its establishment...Can you give us an example where in the history of humankind this happened with the consent of the displaced population?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, lets discuss the change in "sovereignty."  _(You asked for examples and the voice of land owners and residency.)_  These are just a few examples.
> 
> 
> 
> [*]Alaska acquisition of America by the United States from the Russian Empire in the year 1867.  Neither the Russian citizens or the indigenous inhabitants had a say in the matter.  It was an arrangement between sovereign powers.
> 
> [*]The Philippines became a territory of the United States after the Spanish-American War. Under the December 10, 1898 Treaty of Paris, Spain ceded the islands to the United States for $20 million. In 1935 the Philippines became a self-governing commonwealth. Japan took over the country from 1942-1944, but the United States regained the islands in 1945, and full independence was granted in July, 1946.  Again, the Philippine nationals or other indigenous inhabitants had no say in the matter of the transfer of sovereignty from Spain to the US.
> 
> [*]The Hawaiian Kingdom went through several stages, first after the multination bloodless _coup d'état_ that deposed Queen Lili'uokalani, the Federal Government set up an independent republic.
> 
> A change in sovereignty does not always mean a change in civil rights or land ownership.  One of the most startling examples, still in contest today, was the acquisition of Puerto Rico.  In 1998, the conflict between the United States and Spain ended with Spain ceding Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to the United States following the Spanish-American War.  And Again, the Puerto Rican nationals had no say in the matter.  It was an arrangement between sovereign powers.  Oddly enough, while the US has entertained the idea of statehood, and allotted funds to hold a referendum by the Puerto Ricans, the Governor, Alejandro García Padilla, is allegedly trying to dissuade Congress (this year) from promoting statehood.​
> The issue of displacement of the population is a secondary outcome, relative to the relationship between the distinct population types.  In the case of the Arab Palestinian, long before apportionment, a running conflict had erupted between the two cultures.  And it was this conflict that is the proximate cause of the displacement.  When two cultures have irreconcilable differences, emphasis on "irreconcilable," then it leads to the types of conflicts we have seen relative to the Israeli-Palestinian relationship.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I asked for CONSENT of the indigenous population not about a sovereignty  change of an outside power.


----------



## RoccoR

pbel, _et al,_

Yes, I understood.



pbel said:


> I asked for CONSENT of the indigenous population not about a sovereignty  change of an outside power.


*(COMMENT)*

But I (emphasizing "I") could not find an example of where the indigenous population was actually given the option of "consent" relative to a such issues.  While I'm sure there must be an example at some time in history, it certainly doesn't appear to be the norm.

If you are not talking about the consent of a change in sovereignty, what manner of consent are you addressing?

Do you have such an example?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## pbel

RoccoR said:


> pbel, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, I understood.
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked for CONSENT of the indigenous population not about a sovereignty  change of an outside power.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But I (emphasizing "I") could not find an example of where the indigenous population was actually given the option of "consent" relative to a such issues.  While I'm sure there must be an example at some time in history, it certainly doesn't appear to be the norm.
> 
> If you are not talking about the consent of a change in sovereignty, what manner of consent are you addressing?
> 
> Do you have such an example?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Yes, Austria annexed by Germany comes to mind, but the Austrians considered themselves Civilized Germans and spoke the same language.


----------



## Kondor3

Hmmmmm...

Native American Indians were not given an option to 'consent'...

Aboriginal Austrailians were not given an option to 'consent'...

Tibetan Chinese were not given an option to 'consent'...

And on and on and on, far back into history, stretching back about as far as one can see...


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> Hmmmmm...
> 
> Native American Indians were not given an option to 'consent'...
> 
> Aboriginal Austrailians were not given an option to 'consent'...
> 
> Tibetan Chinese were not given an option to 'consent'...
> 
> And on and on and on, far back into history, stretching back about as far as one can see...


That's what I've been saying, the World has changed Politically under International Law of which Israel is a Signatory and she hides nukes attacks her neighbors, all for the sake of appeasing Right Wing Politicians who lust for more Ancient Judean land and are as fanatic as any Jihadist to reach their destructive goals.

The UN did not Allow Serbia to force a marriage with them without political consent, that is the International Norm accepted world-wide today.


----------



## Kondor3

Pbel... you're a decent fellow, but your well-intentioned faith in International Law raises an eyebrow from time to time...


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> There are two kinds of rights mentioned here.
> 
> civil rights
> non political in nature
> the rights without regard to sex, race, or religion
> rights of personal liberty that belong to an individual
> 
> religious rights
> free exercise thereof
> prohibiting discrimination
> 
> 
> The establishment of the Jewish National Home and the establishment of the Jewish State have not interfered with these rights.  They are political constructs.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian was not stripped of its right to self-determination.  It chose conflict over peace.  It chose to reject rather than participate.


So you have no intention of addressing Lord Balfour's comment?

Because zionists did not get the permission of the indigenous, non-jewish population, to create a state of Israel, where they were living.

And to this very day, arab-Israeli's do not have the same fundamental rights, as jewish-Israeli's do.


----------



## MHunterB

Just which 'fudamental' rights don't 'arab-Israelis' have, according to you?  And do you actually mean 'arab Israelis' - or do you mean 'Israelis who are not Jewish'?   

After all, over half of Israeli Jews are Mizrachi or Sephardi - which is to say 'arab' Jews.....


----------



## Billo_Really

MHunterB said:


> Just which 'fudamental' rights don't 'arab-Israelis' have, according to you?  And do you actually mean 'arab Israelis' - or do you mean 'Israelis who are not Jewish'?
> 
> After all, over half of Israeli Jews are Mizrachi or Sephardi - which is to say 'arab' Jews.....


The Knesset has outlawed any rememberence of Nakba Day.  Arab-Israeli's are not allowed to ride busses with jewish-Israeli's.  There are "jew-only" roads; "jew-only" communities and about 29 other laws that have codified apartheid in that country.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. If they massacre all the Muslim-Arab Palestinians and shovel them into the ground, that's Extermination.
> 
> 
> 
> "_I'm sure bloodthirty, pieces of shit like you, would rather see that happen?_..."
Click to expand...

Really sucks, having your verbiage called-out as the hyperbole that it is, when correct and commonly-accepted definitions are served-up in counterpoint, eh? 







Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they push them off the land and send them packing to Jordan, Lebanon, et al, that's Expulsion.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._You got serious comprehension issues!_..."
Click to expand...


In this narrow context, I was illustrating the difference between Extermination and Expulsion, rather than advocating for expulsion.

Your inability to comprehend that distinction does not bode well for your ability to judge the comprehension skills of your colleagues.



Billo_Really said:


> "..._Did you not read the comment from Lord Balfour?..." _



But since you bring it up... Balfour's Declaration, which included an 'Arab consent' provision, was tantamount to saying:

_"You Jews can have a piece of your old spiritual homeland back again for the first time in 1900 years, but only if your chief elder stands on one foot on top of a hilltop in Jerusalem on the second Tuesday after the Winter Solstice and hops up and down and can touch the moon in a clear sky at least six times out of ten tries."_

So the Jews cherry-picked the Declaration and stripped-out the Arab Consent provision and made it real rather than a meaningless 'tease' that otherwise had zero chance of being realized. Sensible of them.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Call it pay-back for the Muslims forcing-out the Jews in many of their countries in the period 1948-1975.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._No one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit_..."
Click to expand...


The 1,000,000 Jews expelled from Muslim countries during that timeframe would probably agree.



Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the entire macro-level struggle is BOTH political AND religious in nature; beginning (in the mid-to-late 19th, and re-initializing again in 1947-1949), as a purely secular, political and land-ownership dispute, and quickly degenerating into an clouded-over hybrid which includes a strong religious component; deeply ingrained and long established.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The 'stuggle' started when zionists imported their racism and apartheid policies into Palestine. Before that, indigenous jews and indigenous arabs got along without any major eruption of violence_..."
Click to expand...


Prior to the advent of strong Zionist influences, the long-browbeaten and tamed and docile Jews of Palaestine made excellent second-class citizens, so long as they kept their heads bowed and down. After centuries, they grew weary of playing Dhimmi to Neanderthals.

But that wasn't the point being made at the time; the point being made was that the struggle began as a mixture of secular issues and morphed into a hybrid that contained a substantive religious component. But that's a little too complex and overlapping and interdependent for blinkered black-and-white one-trick-pony types to appreciate and comprehend.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> People use 'Jews' and 'Israelis' interchangeably in an Israeli-Palestinian Conflict context, just as they use 'Arabs' and 'Palestinians' or 'Muslims and Palestinians' interchangeably in that same context; a slip in accuracy but commonplace enough and not likely to be based on insidious attempts at masking and deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._And zionists use 'the jews', like a woman uses a tampon_..."
Click to expand...

My, my, my... such juvenile, bitter, vulgar, misogynistic language and imagery.



Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most, if not all, inconsistencies in the treatment of Arab-Muslim citizens of Israel have been resolved at-law in recent years, based on my modest second-hand understanding of events as they have unfolded there.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Bullshit, they're treated as 2nd class citizens_..."
Click to expand...


If true, then, it's no worse than the Dhimmitude which the Jews of Palestine have been subjected to for centuries, and, in all likelihood, it's a damned sight better than that, but, as I disclosed at the onset, my own understanding of this leaves much to be desired.




Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Muslim residents of the West Bank and Gaza, on the other hand, are NOT citizens of Israel;
> 
> 
> 
> "..._That's because it's not Israel, you fucking asshole!_..."
Click to expand...


I was merely drawing a distinction between Israeli Arabs and Palestinian Arabs.

As to Palestine not being part of Israel, well... not yet... but it's coming... soon. 



Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> in large part, this was a choice that they made by choosing the wrong side
> 
> 
> 
> "..._This has nothing to do with sides_..."
Click to expand...


It has everything to do with 'sides'. And bad choices.



Billo_Really said:


> "..._They are a population under the occupation of a foreign force_..."



Jordan forcibly and illegally occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1948 and annexed them in 1950 and made Jordanian Citizens of the Palestinians therein.

In 1967, despite Israeli pleas for Jordan to remain neutral, Jordan attacked Israel on Day 2 of the 1967 War and promptly proceeded to lose their illegally-annexed territory to the Israelis, who merely took from Jordan what the Jordanians had illegally appropriated for themselves.

Rather than abandoning their fellow Jordanian Citizens (the Palestinians of the West Bank and East Jerusalem), perhaps the Jordanians should have cared better for their own people and arranged for those multitudes of fellow citizens to be transfered to Jordanian soil.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...who are geographically constrained and kept separate from Israelis in order to enhance the safety of Jewish Israeli citizens. Civilizations great and small have been keeping Barbarians outside the gates and on the other side of The Wall for thousands of years; a time-honored and largely successful survival tactic.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._You're just an inhuman piece of shit, who's country probably should be bombed back to the stoneage?_..."
Click to expand...

Nope. Kill our people with suicide bombs and rockets, and we close the gates on you.



Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt. Fifth-columnists, traitors and those who would offer their backsides to The Enemy are usually held in great contempt and treated as potentially dangerous weakeners of a strong collective will to see a thing through. No surprise there. Probably deserved in some cases, and undeserved in others.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._You're outlawing dissent_..."
Click to expand...


Nope. But Arab Butt-Boys get short shrift in most non-Arab circles, especially Israel. Entirely understandable.



Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In order to make omelettes, ya gotta break a few eggs. This is grown-up stuff, not the kiddie matinee, with the existence of Israel at-stake. No room for surrender-monkeys, half-measures, or silly, simpering kumbaya-my-lord sentiments in the realm of operative thought.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._You don't deserve a country!_..."
Click to expand...


Non sequitur.



Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They chose poorly. Repeatedly. Poor choices have consequences. If they don't like them, they had best pack-up and leave, and go live someplace else that (a) wants them and (b) offers a prospect for a peaceful, happy life amongst their own kind.
> 
> 
> 
> "...Go fuck yourself, asshole!..."
Click to expand...


Non sequitur.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,   _et al,_

I will, if you can give me an example of the substantive difference between the rights of a Jewish-Israeli and a Arab-Israel.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two kinds of rights mentioned here.
> 
> civil rights
> non political in nature
> the rights without regard to sex, race, or religion
> rights of personal liberty that belong to an individual
> 
> religious rights
> free exercise thereof
> prohibiting discrimination
> 
> 
> The establishment of the Jewish National Home and the establishment of the Jewish State have not interfered with these rights.  They are political constructs.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian was not stripped of its right to self-determination.  It chose conflict over peace.  It chose to reject rather than participate.
> 
> 
> 
> So you have no intention of addressing Lord Balfour's comment?
> 
> Because zionists did not get the permission of the indigenous, non-jewish population, to create a state of Israel, where they were living.
> 
> And to this very day, arab-Israeli's do not have the same fundamental rights, as jewish-Israeli's do.
Click to expand...




MHunterB said:


> Just which 'fudamental' rights don't 'arab-Israelis' have, according to you?  And do you actually mean 'arab Israelis' - or do you mean 'Israelis who are not Jewish'?
> 
> After all, over half of Israeli Jews are Mizrachi or Sephardi - which is to say 'arab' Jews.....


*(COMMENT)*

Where did Lord Balfour say that consent was required by the Arab People?  

I guess --- I don't understand the differences that make-up the complaint.  You have to be a little more specific for me.  

I see no difference between the "civil rights" or "religious rights" of an Jewish-Israeli and a Arab-Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

pbel,  _et al,_

I'm still confused.



pbel said:


> That's what I've been saying, the World has changed Politically under International Law of which Israel is a Signatory and she hides nukes attacks her neighbors, all for the sake of appeasing Right Wing Politicians who lust for more Ancient Judean land and are as fanatic as any Jihadist to reach their destructive goals.


*(COMMENT)*

Relative to the nuclear capability of Israel _(which I am hard pressed to make a connection to the topic under discussion)_, Israel is not in violation of any International Law.  All the law on nuclear weaponization is based on the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), for which Israel is not a signatory.  Israel has the very same policy on nuclear weaponization as the US had pre-NPT _(neither confirm nor deny - a policy of ambiguity)_.  There is no evidence that the State of Israel transferred to any recipient whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly to any other state.  There is no evidence that the State of Israel has, in any way, assisted, encouraged, or induced any non-nuclear-weapon State to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.   There is no evidence that the State of Israel has allowed any other state control over such weapons or explosive devices.  In many respects, the fundamental aspects of the NPT are adhered to by the State of Israel.  


Who are the complainant in the case against Israel?
Middle Eastern Arab/Persian Nations.

Has Israel made a nuclear threat against any nation?
No

Has Israel been threatened to by wiped-out by any of the complainant?
Yes - the entire Arab League.

Has Israel Israel been attacked by any of the complainants in the Middle East?
Yes - all of them.

Does Israel have the right of self-defense in the face of hostile Middle Eastern nations?
Yes.




pbel said:


> The UN did not Allow Serbia to force a marriage with them without political consent, that is the International Norm accepted world-wide today.


*(QUESTION)*

Again, I'm confused.  

What authority are you citing for "political consent?"  
What "political consent" has the State of Israel denied to its citizens?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In truth, they're not 'occupied' so much as 'walled-off' and 'walled-out' where they can do less harm and damage to Jewish Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> _No, they're occupied, you disgusting prick!_
Click to expand...

Temper, temper... I used the phrase 'not occupied so much as'. I was not denying Occupation Status in all respects, merely that their situation more closely resembled a walling-off or fencing-off and separating rather than the classical definition of an occupation.

As to your personal insults, well... I would not have treated you thusly, but, since you've chosen this approach, that's fine by me. For clarification's sake, I am, indeed, a prick; however, I do my best to be an agreeable prick rather than a disgusting one, such as you seem well along the road to achieving at this late juncture in your descent towards irrelevance.




Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, by that, you mean that Netanyahu has been obliged to make even more unpleasant and unpalatable choices in order to protect Jewish Israelis, than Sharron was obliged to do, then, there may be a ring of truth to the observation, although we disagree on the sort of verbiage that should be applied to such choices and their outcomes.
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Can you get anymore arrogant, insensitive and narcissitic?_..."
Click to expand...

I do not see how counterpointing your highly biased verbiage regarding a comparison between Netanyahu and Sharron constitutes arrogance, insensitivity or narcissism, but, then again, I don't have your 'special' filters for processing such information.

But to answer your question: "Can you get anymore...?" - the answer is: Yes. Absolutely. No problem. Haven't even scratched that surface yet. But I choose not to.




Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, then, they should have made different choices while they still could. Looks like Intifada I and II ended-up backfiring on the Palestinians after all, eh? They'd be a far happier lot today if they had not conducted long-term suicide-bombing campaigns and rocket-barrage campaigns. Too late, now.
> 
> 
> 
> _As I said before, the violence didn't start, until you fuckers showed up!_
Click to expand...


I have no idea whom you mean by 'you fuckers'.

The analysis, however, is quite clear and simple:

Even after the 1967 conquest by Israel of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, in response to Jordanian aggression, the Israelis did not see fit to build The Wall.

After Intifada I and Intifada II and a sustained multi-year -long rocket barrage campaign, The Wall now separates the Israelis and Palestinians.

Proving beyond any reasonable doubt the accuracy of the observation.




Billo_Really said:


> "..._I can't go on responding to your bullshit post!_..."



Whatever made you believe that you had even begun?



Billo_Really said:


> "..._You don't deserve a country!_..."



I already have one, and earned my place in it by serving in its Armed Forces in wartime.



Billo_Really said:


> "..._You're a worthless human, with no redeeming qualities_..."



That's odd. Your mother thought differently. 



Billo_Really said:


> "..._You get everything you deserve and you caused it all_..."



I have no idea what this means, but, given my standing as an American Citizen and non-Jew, I am comforted by the idea that you have no idea what this means in this context, either. 



Billo_Really said:


> "..._You're not an honest person, you're just an arrogant piece of shit!_"



Oh, I'm honest enough, alright; it's just that my own honest positions collide with yours. Your inability to differentiate between Honesty and Opposition is your cross to bear, not mine.

That's merely a modest degree of confidence, not arrogance, and, again, your inability to differentiate between such things is your cross to bear, not mine.

Your vulgar, lowbrow opinions in such matters and your abusive behaviors in dealing with so many of your colleagues are more flattering than damning to your targets.


----------



## georgephillip

*Early Zionists were far less presupposed to propaganda in their pursuit of the Promised Land than the current Goyim in support of Greater Israel are:*

"There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs.  Not now, nor in the prospective future.  I say this with such conviction, not because I want to hurt the moderate Zionists.  I do not believe that they will be hurt. Except for those who were born blind, they realised long ago that it is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting 'Palestine' from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority."

*Jabotinsky knew instinctively, just as Cortez and Pizzaro understood, that every native population regards its lands as its national home and a majority of patriots within that indigenous population will never endorse new masters.*

*More from Jabotinsky:*

"We cannot offer any adequate compensation to the Palestinian Arabs in return for Palestine. And therefore, there is no likelihood of any voluntary agreement being reached. So that all those who regard such an agreement as a condition sine qua non for Zionism may as well say 'non' and withdraw from Zionism. 

            "Zionist colonisation must either stop, or else pive population. Which means that it can proceed and develop only under the protection of a power that is independent of the native population  behind an iron wall, which the native population cannot breach. 

            "That is our Arab policy; not what we should be, but what it actually is, whether we admit it or not.  What need, otherwise, of the Balfour Declaration? Or of the Mandate?  Their value to us is that outside Power has undertaken to create in the country such conditions of administration and security that if the native population should desire to hinder our work, they will find it impossible. 

            "And we are all of us ,without any exception, demanding day after day that this outside Power, should carry out this task vigorously and with determination.

            "In this matter there is no difference between our 'militarists' and our 'vegetarians'. Except  that the  first prefer that the iron wall should consist of Jewish soldiers, and the others are content that they should be British."

*States than can thrive and prosper only under the protection of an imperial power  independent of the collective will of the indigenous majority are born dead and all attempts at life support constitute the ultimate non-sequitur.*

"The Iron Wall" | Jewish Virtual Library


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pbel... you're a decent fellow, but your well-intentioned faith in International Law raises an eyebrow from time to time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"You don't know the meaning of the word 'decent'"_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I dunno... your mother used to think I was pretty 'decent' in that 'special way'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you needed to sleep one off by the time you had gotten to this point.
> 
> Lighten up, Francis.
Click to expand...

You better watch it, people are getting banned by talking about family members.

You're just lucky I (as a policy) never report anyone.  The logic being, I'm probably far worse than any post I'm responding to.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> For clarification's sake, I am, indeed, a prick; however, I do my best to be an agreeable prick rather than a disgusting one...


I knew it was a only  a matter of time before you saw things my way.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> I will, if you can give me an example of the substantive difference between the rights of a Jewish-Israeli and a Arab-Israel.
> 
> Where did Lord Balfour say that consent was required by the Arab People?
> 
> I guess --- I don't understand the differences that make-up the complaint.  You have to be a little more specific for me.
> 
> I see no difference between the "civil rights" or "religious rights" of an Jewish-Israeli and a Arab-Israel.


I cannot believe you could read Lord Balfour's comment and no know what that means?


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

Oh I do understand.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will, if you can give me an example of the substantive difference between the rights of a Jewish-Israeli and a Arab-Israel.
> 
> Where did Lord Balfour say that consent was required by the Arab People?
> 
> I guess --- I don't understand the differences that make-up the complaint.  You have to be a little more specific for me.
> 
> I see no difference between the "civil rights" or "religious rights" of an Jewish-Israeli and a Arab-Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot believe you could read Lord Balfour's comment and no know what that means?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I think you tend to stretch the meaning and interpretation way out of shape.  As I said, there are two kinds of rights mentioned here.

civil rights
non political in nature
the rights without regard to sex, race, or religion
rights of personal liberty that belong to an individual

religious rights
free exercise thereof
prohibiting discrimination


Other than what might be expected in any other Middle Eastern society, I do not see any significant action,  by the Israeli that "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."  But nothing in this calls for the consent of the existing non-Jewish communities in the establishment of either the Jewish National Home or the Jewish State.

I see nothing, on the part of the Israeli, that retracts, restricts or hampers the right to liberty and security, freedom of conscience, worship any religion, expression, press, assembly and association, speech, the right to privacy, the right to equal treatment and due process and the right to a fair trial, as well as the right to life.   On the contrary, the exact opposite was noted.  It was the Arab Palestinian that said:  The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man women and child."  It was the Arab-Palestinian that created the Black Hand.  It was the Arab-Palestinian that opened up conflict on the passage of General Assembly Resolution 181(II).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..._You better watch it, people are getting banned by talking about family members_..."



 My post to Pbel and reply to you included on-topic content re: International Law in an Israel-Palestine context.

I also do not believe that it violated family- focused guidelines; taking some care not to cross that threshold.

The rules prohibit attacking family members.

The rules say nothing about merely mentioning family members outside of an attack-like framework, in which nothing derogatory is being said about the person.

If I am outside the boundaries of the Zone Guidelines or overall Site Rules in this context, I'm sure the Admins and Mods will let me know.



> "..._You're just lucky I (as a policy) never report anyone_..."



You will do what you will do.



> "..._The logic being, I'm probably far worse than any post I'm responding to._"



We share a common vision in this narrow context.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For clarification's sake, I am, indeed, a prick; however, I do my best to be an agreeable prick rather than a disgusting one...
> 
> 
> 
> _I knew it was a only  a matter of time before you saw things my way._
Click to expand...

This does nothing to help us differentiate between Occupation and Fenced-off Separation, in an Israeli-Palestinian context, but, since you mentioned it again...

I've never believed nor held nor pretended otherwise; *I* just don't go out-of-my-way to _manifest_ in that mode.


----------



## MHunterB

Billo_Really said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just which 'fudamental' rights don't 'arab-Israelis' have, according to you?  And do you actually mean 'arab Israelis' - or do you mean 'Israelis who are not Jewish'?
> 
> After all, over half of Israeli Jews are Mizrachi or Sephardi - which is to say 'arab' Jews.....
> 
> 
> 
> The Knesset has outlawed any rememberence of Nakba Day.  Arab-Israeli's are not allowed to ride busses with jewish-Israeli's.  There are "jew-only" roads; "jew-only" communities and about 29 other laws that have codified apartheid in that country.
Click to expand...


The first is factually completely incorrect: the government simply allowed local municipalities, etc, to choose to NOT FUND such 'remembrance' from their budgets.  Basicaly, your 'statement' is an outright falsehood, a lie.

  So is the second, so far as I am aware.  

  As to the third, I believe that is also a mis-statement.  

Some list of those alleged '29 other laws' would be helpful - from some reliable source.  So far, you're totally in error and have presented nothing to document those 'facts' which have ben your excuse for so much obscenity, name-calling and outright demonization directed at other posters.

It makes you appear very uninformed and  extremely ill-equipped to actually *discuss*  the topic.


----------



## Connery

*Thread cleaned

The Administration and the Moderation Team are serious in their efforts to have a civil discourse as it pertains to the OP and any further posts which violate Zone 2 rules will be viewed in a more serious manner where infractions will be administered on a case by case basis.*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

MHunterB said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just which 'fudamental' rights don't 'arab-Israelis' have, according to you?  And do you actually mean 'arab Israelis' - or do you mean 'Israelis who are not Jewish'?
> 
> After all, over half of Israeli Jews are Mizrachi or Sephardi - which is to say 'arab' Jews.....
> 
> 
> 
> The Knesset has outlawed any rememberence of Nakba Day.  Arab-Israeli's are not allowed to ride busses with jewish-Israeli's.  There are "jew-only" roads; "jew-only" communities and about 29 other laws that have codified apartheid in that country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The first is factually completely incorrect: the government simply allowed local municipalities, etc, to choose to NOT FUND such 'remembrance' from their budgets.  Basicaly, your 'statement' is an outright falsehood, a lie.
> 
> So is the second, so far as I am aware.
> 
> As to the third, I believe that is also a mis-statement.
> 
> Some list of those alleged '29 other laws' would be helpful - from some reliable source.  So far, you're totally in error and have presented nothing to document those 'facts' which have ben your excuse for so much obscenity, name-calling and outright demonization directed at other posters.
> 
> It makes you appear very uninformed and  extremely ill-equipped to actually *discuss*  the topic.
Click to expand...


I've never heard of Jew-only busses in Israel or even in the West Bank.  Many times I've ridden on busses with Arabs.  Link?  Some "Jewish-only" roads were established on the West Bank after the Second Intifada, because of the snipers and shooting going on the regular roads.  This was purely a matter of security.  Haifa is fairly intermixed with Jews and Arabs, as are many cities in Israel.  However, in the grand tradition of Chinatown, Little Italy, Spanish Harlem, etc., certainly there are some separate Jewish and Arab neighborhoods.  Please visit Israel before you make further ridiculous statements, loinboy.


----------



## Beachboy

Connery said:


> *Thread cleaned
> 
> The Administration and the Moderation Team are serious in their efforts to have a civil discourse as it pertains to the OP and any further posts which violate Zone 2 rules will be viewed in a more serious manner where infractions will be administered on a case by case basis.*

















*Just as a reminder to myself, and anyone else who has not checked out what Zone 2 rules are recently, here they are:*​ 


> *"Zone 1":* Clean Debate Zone (CDZ) / Introduce Yourself  (Welcome Threads): Civil discourse is the focus here, regardless of  topic matter. Constructive criticism and debate is the tone. No negative  repping. No insulting, name calling, or putting down other posters.  Consider it a lesson in Civics.
> 
> *"Zone 2":  Political Forum / Israel and Palestine Forum / Race Relations/Racism  Forum / Religion & Ethics Forum: Baiting and polarizing OP's  (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or  trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. Each post must contain  content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No  trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.*
> *
> * *"Zone 3":*  Main Forums: Normal Site Wide Rules apply. This includes PM's (Private  Messaging), Visitor Messages, Reputation Comments, and Publicly Viewed  Social Groups (Though Lightly Moderated).
> 
> *"Zone 4":*  Flame Zone/Badlands/Rubber Room: The least moderated forum on the site.  Not viewed by non members. Site wide rules still apply, but are more  loosely enforced. Extreme flaming threads and posts belong here. If the  OP (Opening Post) of Your Thread is focused on Mocking or Ridicule, It  belongs here.


----------



## Beachboy

*The OP*



American_Jihad said:


> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly    established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of    vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the    enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of    the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and  slanders   of the political and media elites, the ignorance of  multitudes, and  the  specter of daily terror. It is equally  inconceivable that this same   beleaguered nation could at the same time  become one of the worlds   leading innovators in science, technology,  medicine and agriculture,   offering benefits to mankind out of all  proportion to its numbers and   circumstanceswhile reaping, for the  most part, resentment, envy and   violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine    solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its    most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of  phenomena,   the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe  bet that   Israel will still be around when its adversaries and  detractors have   succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas.  Get used to it.   Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay


----------



## pbel

Beachboy said:


> *The OP*
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> October 24, 2012
> By David Solway
> 
> ---
> 
> For it is almost inconceivable that a few million citizens of a newly    established nation could successfully resist the military onslaught of    vastly larger armies time and again. It must also contend against the    enmity of its nominal allies in the West, the propaganda campaigns of    the worlds major NGOs and opinion-forming bodies, the lies and  slanders   of the political and media elites, the ignorance of  multitudes, and  the  specter of daily terror. It is equally  inconceivable that this same   beleaguered nation could at the same time  become one of the worlds   leading innovators in science, technology,  medicine and agriculture,   offering benefits to mankind out of all  proportion to its numbers and   circumstanceswhile reaping, for the  most part, resentment, envy and   violence.
> 
> For some, the continued existence of Israel is a sign of divine    solicitude; for others, of human fortitude, hope and commitment at its    most incandescent. But whatever the reason for this rarest of  phenomena,   the emergence of the theoretically impossible, it is a safe  bet that   Israel will still be around when its adversaries and  detractors have   succumbed to their own contradictions and dilemmas.  Get used to it.   Israel is here to stay.
> 
> Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay
Click to expand...


This is the kind of bravado of invincibility that lulls its claimants to defeat...No empire has lasted forever, and I simply doubt Israel will last beyond a couple of hundred years if she stays on a war footing with Islam, especially when the entire ME is armed to the teeth with Nukes.

Armament Parity has been the great neutralizer in History. Stay tuned.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Obamas Leaks & Sabotaging Israels Defense*

November 4, 2013 By Joseph Klein 






Israel has established a clear-cut red line when it comes to preventing the transfer of advanced arms from Syria to Hezbollah. And unlike the Obama administration, Israel means what it says. Israel has conducted military strikes to destroy advanced Iranian and Russian weapons in the Syrian regimes hands before they could be added to Hezbollahs growing stockpile of offensive arms aimed at Israeli population centers or used to thwart Israeli defense systems.

Instead of providing covert support for Israeli operations, or at least staying out of Israels way, the Obama administration is deliberately compromising Israels security by leaking sensitive information on Israeli attacks against the Syrian weapons targets.

The latest episode of Obama administration betrayal of Americas closest ally in the Middle East came last week when an Obama administration official leaked to CNN that Israeli warplanes had attacked a Syrian base, targeting missiles and related equipment to prevent their delivery to Hezbollah. The Israeli Air Force attack targeted Russian-made SA-8 Gecko Dgreen mobile missiles in the Syrian port of Latakia. Israel reportedly also struck a similar shipment in Damascus. The latest leaks continue a disturbing pattern, including the U.S. intelligence communitys public disclosure last summer of an Israeli air and naval strike on a shipment of highly advanced Russian anti-ship missiles.

...

Now comes word, revealed by DEBKAfiles intelligence and Iranian sources, that there was an unexplained explosion last week at Irans Arak heavy water reactor that is under construction and would have the capability to produce plutonium for use in nuclear bombs as an alternative to enriched uranium. There is no indication yet whether Israel may have been involved in some sort of act of sabotage. But if Israel was involved, will the Obama administration sabotage Israels covert activities with yet another embarrassing leak?  Based on its pattern of leaking Israels strikes on advanced weapons in Syria destined for Hezbollah, the answer sadly is most likely yes.



Obama?s Leaks & Sabotaging Israel?s Defense | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## RoccoR

_*et al,*_

This is a filler article; and not too bright.

*(REFERENCE)*


American_Jihad said:


> *Obamas Leaks & Sabotaging Israels Defense*
> 
> November 4, 2013 By Joseph Klein
> Obama?s Leaks & Sabotaging Israel?s Defense | FrontPage Magazine


*(COMMENT)*

The idea that the US "leaked" the story (implying some compromise by association) is rather dull.  Who the hell else, besides Israel, is making such strikes?  Does Joe Klein believe for a moment that it was a mystery to either the Russians or the Syrians?



			
				FrontPage Magazine said:
			
		

> DEBKAfile, citing its Washington sources, explained that because the administration is immersed in a complicated joint diplomatic maneuver with Moscow on Syria, it cant afford to leave the impression of US involvement in the Israeli attack or its approval.



I think that the Quartet and the Regional Governments know by now that the US has little influence over self-defense operations by Israel.  Israel does what it believes is in its best interest; when it wants and where it wants.  It doesn't follow US guidance that it believes is detrimental to Israeli Security.



			
				FrontPage Magazine said:
			
		

> The leaks appear to be part of the Obama administrations strategy to put Netanyahu in his place by telling him, in effect, that the U.S. has the capacity to monitor every move the Israelis make, including preparations for a military strike to halt Irans nuclear program, and to expose Israels plans preemptively, if the Obama administration deems necessary, to protect its ongoing negotiations with Iran.



There is no evidence, past or present to suggest that the US would in any way, tactically compromise future Israeli Operations relative to either Syria or Iran.  This is all supposition based on imagination.  It is common knowledge that Israel has conducted operations against targets in Syria that might pose a threat to Israeli sovereignty or improve Hezbollah strike capabilities.  And I think everyone regionally understands Israel position on Iran and it potential nuclear advancements.



			
				FrontPage Magazine said:
			
		

> The DEBKAfile report went on to say that Israeli government and military insiders consider the Obama administrations leaks to be in breach of the understandings and agreements reached between Israel and the White House on Syria.



What the article does do is take the spotlight off the fact that Russia is providing material support to either the Assad Regime or Hezbollah Terrorists; or both.  The article redirects the focus on US-Israeli relations.  The leaks shift the center of the story away from nature and scope of the Russian involvement all together.

This kind of story is for the masses, and not the people that analyze the facts and connect the dots.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> What the article does do is take the spotlight off the fact that Russia is providing material support to either the Assad Regime or Hezbollah Terrorists; or both.  The article redirects the focus on US-Israeli relations.  The leaks shift the center of the story away from nature and scope of the Russian involvement all together.


I find it funny that Israel is too pussy to stop the Russian's.


----------



## Billo_Really

pbel said:


> This is the kind of bravado of invincibility that lulls its claimants to defeat...No empire has lasted forever, and I simply doubt Israel will last beyond a couple of hundred years if she stays on a war footing with Islam, especially when the entire ME is armed to the teeth with Nukes.
> 
> Armament Parity has been the great neutralizer in History. Stay tuned.


I don't think there is any country in the ME that can match Israel's military might.

Not now, or anytime in the future.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> I think you tend to stretch the meaning and interpretation way out of shape.


 No I'm not, the message is clear.

The indigenous arabs had (and have) the right to self-determination. 

That "right", was stripped from them the moment the "jewish state" was declared. 



RoccoR said:


> Other than what might be expected in any other Middle Eastern society, I do not see any significant action,  by the Israeli that "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."


 Tell that to the residents of Deir Yassin.



> _*One of the most notorious cases of the terrorizing of civilian population occurred, according to Palestinian and other sources, in April 1948 at Deir Yassin*, a village near Jerusalem, situated in territory assigned to the Jewish State by the partition resolution. A former Israeli military governor of Jerusalem writes:
> 
> "We suffered a reverse of a different nature on April 9 when combined Etzel and Stern Gang units* mounted a deliberate and unprovoked attack on the Arab village of Deir Yassin on the western edge of Jerusalem. There was no reason for the attack. *It was a quiet village, which had denied entry to the volunteer Arab units from across the frontier and which had not been involved in any attacks on Jewish areas. The dissident groups chose it for strictly political reasons. It was a deliberate act of terrorism ..._


You don't call wiping out an entire village for political reasons, "prejudicing" their "civil and religious" rights?



RoccoR said:


> But nothing in this calls for the consent of the existing non-Jewish communities in the establishment of either the Jewish National Home or the Jewish State.


Yes it does.  If the indigenous arabs have the right to self-determination, how is that "right" not abridged, without their consent for the state of Israel?




RoccoR said:


> I see nothing, on the part of the Israeli, that retracts, restricts or hampers the right to liberty and security, freedom of conscience, worship any religion, expression, press, assembly and association, speech, the right to privacy, the right to equal treatment and due process and the right to a fair trial, as well as the right to life.   On the contrary, the exact opposite was noted.  It was the Arab Palestinian that said:  The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man women and child."  It was the Arab-Palestinian that created the Black Hand.  It was the Arab-Palestinian that opened up conflict on the passage of General Assembly Resolution 181(II).


Why you keep referring to the "passage" of 181, a non-binding resolution, is beyond me.



> _The United Nations partition resolution *did not provide a solution* to the Palestine problem_


The UNSC never ruled on it's passage.



> _ *The Security Council could not take any effective decision after discussing General Assembly resolution 181 (II) (the partition resolution) in December 1947*. In March 1948 the United States draft proposal to enable the Council to act on the partition resolution failed, and the Council only called for an end to the violence in Palestine._


 The resolution just fizzled out and never went anywhere.



> _The United Nations Commission on Palestine, established by resolution 181 (II), *could not move to Jerusalem*, and only could hold consultations in New York. *The formation of the armed militia, intended to assist the Commission in its functions in Palestine, became impracticable* in the face of the accelerated British withdrawal in a deteriorating situation where the casualty toll in the first three months after the approval of the partition resolution was 869 dead and 1,909 injured_


  But the Security Council did pass resolutions 242 and 338 reaffirming the Palestinian's right to self-determination and the illegality of the occupation.



> _ *Security Council resolutions 242 (1967) and 338 (1973), as we reaffirmed on 29 June 1977, as well as on the following fundamental principles:* first, acquisition of territory by force is unacceptable; secondly, Israel must end its occupation of territories it has held since the 1967 war; thirdly, the sovereignty, territorial integrity and the independence of each State in the region must be respected, as well as the right of each State in the region to live in peace with secure and recognized borders; fourthly, *the establishment of a just and lasting peace must give due consideration to the rights of the Palestinians*._


A "right" Israel took from them in 1948.

At the time, heads of state of the African Unity put it this way...



> _ The Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the Organization of African Unity, meeting at Libreville in July 1977, declared: "... that a just and lasting peace can be attained *only on the basis of total Israeli withdrawal from all occupied Arab territories *and recognition of the national legitimate right of the Palestinian people to their territory, sovereignty and national independence and *their right to self-determination and the creation of an independent State on their national territory*."_


Unlike 181, 242 and 338, are binding resolutions.


----------



## Billo_Really

MHunterB said:


> The first is factually completely incorrect: the government simply allowed local municipalities, etc, to choose to NOT FUND such 'remembrance' from their budgets.  Basicaly, your 'statement' is an outright falsehood, a lie.
> 
> So is the second, so far as I am aware.
> 
> As to the third, I believe that is also a mis-statement.
> 
> Some list of those alleged '29 other laws' would be helpful - from some reliable source.  So far, you're totally in error and have presented nothing to document those 'facts' which have ben your excuse for so much obscenity, name-calling and outright demonization directed at other posters.
> 
> It makes you appear very uninformed and  extremely ill-equipped to actually *discuss*  the topic.


Do you consider former leaders of Israel and members of the Knesset, informed enough to speak about this subject?



> _*Avraham Burg, Israels Knesset Speaker from 1999 to 2003 and former chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel*, has long determined that* Israel must shed its illusions and choose between racist oppression and democracy,* insisting the only way to maintain total Jewish control over all of historic Palestine would be to *abandon democracy* and* institute an efficient system of racial separation here, with prison camps and detention villages.* He has also called Israel* the last colonial occupier in the Western world.*
> 
> *Yossi Sarid, who served as a member of the Knesset between 1974 and 2006*, has written of Israels *segregation policy* that *what acts like apartheid, is run like apartheid and harasses like apartheid, is not a duck  it is apartheid.*
> 
> *Yossi Paritzky, former Knesset and Cabinet minister*, writing about the systematic institutionalization and legalization of racial and religious discrimination in Israel, stated that Israel does not act like a democracy in which* all citizens regardless of race, religious, gender or origin are entitled to equality.* Rather, by implementing more and more discriminatory laws that treat Palestinians as second-class citizens,* Israel decided to be like apartheid&#8209;era South Africa, and some will say even worse countries that no longer exist.*
> 
> *Shulamit Aloni, another former Knesset and Cabinet member*, has written that* the state of Israel practices its own, quite violent, form of Apartheid with the native Palestinian population.*
> 
> *In 2008, the Association of Civil Rights in Israel *released its annual human rights report which found that the dynamic between settlers, soldiers and native Palestinians in the occupied West Bank was *reminiscent, in many and increasing ways, of the apartheid regime in South Africa.*
> 
> *Ehud Olmert, when he was Prime Minister*, told a Knesset committee meeting, *For sixty years there has been discrimination against Arabs in Israel. This discrimination is deep&#8209;seated and intolerable* and repeatedly warned that if *we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished.*
> 
> *Ehud Barak has admitted *that *[a]s long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic. If this bloc of millions of *Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.*_


Or are they now part of the un-informed legions?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

The Jordanian newspaper Al Urdun published a survivor's account in 1955, which said *the Palestinians had deliberately exaggerated stories about atrocities in Deir Yassin to encourage others to fight, stories that had caused them to flee instead.* 

Everyone had reason to spread the atrocity narrative. The Irgun and Lehi wanted to frighten Arabs into fleeing; the Arabs wanted to provoke an international response; the Haganah wanted to tarnish the Irgun and Lehi; and the Arabs and the British wanted to malign the Jews.[55] 

In addition, Milstein writes, the left-wing Mapai party and David Ben-Gurion, who became Israel's first prime minister on May 14, exploited Deir Yassin to stop a power-sharing agreement with the right-wing Revisionistswho were associated with Irgun and Lehia proposal that was being debated at the time in Tel Aviv.[56] Mordechai Ra'anan, the Irgun commander in Jerusalem, told reporters on April 10 that 254 Arab bodies had been counted, a figure published by The New York Times on April 13.[57] 

In 1987, in a study regarded as authoritative, Sharif Kan'ana of Bir Zeit University concluded by interviewing survivors that 107 had died, with 12 wounded.[37]

*Hazem Nuseibeh, the news editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service at the time of the attack, gave an interview to the BBC in 1998. He spoke about a discussion he had with Hussayn Khalidi, the deputy chairman of the Higher Arab Executive in Jerusalem, shortly after the killings: "I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story. He said, 'We must make the most of this.' So he wrote a press release, stating that at Deir Yassin, children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities."[58] Gelber writes that Khalidi told journalists on April 11 that the village's dead included 25 pregnant women, 52 mothers of babies, and 60 girls.[59]*

The stories of rape angered the villagers, who complained to the Arab emergency committee that their wives and daughters were being exploited in the service of propaganda.[60] 

*Abu Mahmud, who lived in Deir Yassin in 1948, was one of those who complained. He told the BBC: "We said, 'There was no rape.' He [Hussayn Khalidi] said, 'We have to say this so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews'."[58] "This was our biggest mistake," said Nusseibeh. "We did not realize how our people would react. As soon as they heard that women had been raped at Deir Yassin, Palestinians fled in terror. They ran away from all our villages."[58] *

*He told Larry Collins in 1968: "We committed a fatal error, and set the stage for the refugee problem."[61] A villager known as Haj Ayish stated that "there had been no rape". He questioned the accuracy of the Arab radio broadcasts which "talked of women being killed and raped", and instead believed that "most of those who were killed were among the fighters and the women and children who helped the fighters".[62] Mohammed Radwan, one of the villagers who fought the attackers, said: "There were no rapes. It's all lies. There were no pregnant women who were slit open. It was propaganda that ... Arabs put out so Arab armies would invade. They ended up expelling people from all of Palestine on the rumor of Deir Yassin."[63] *

Radwan added "I know when I speak that God is up there and God knows the truth and God will not forgive the liars."[63] Historian Abdel Jawad states that women at Deir Yassin spoke to British interrogators about rapes occurring and their opinion that this was the worst thing that happened. He states that it was something that could not be discussed in their society and was never talked of by the men.[64] Citing Hasso (2000:495) Isabelle Humphries and Laleh Khalili note that in Palestine men's honour was tied to "the maintenance of kin women's virginity (when unmarried) or exclusive sexual availability (when married)", and that this culture led to the suppression of the narratives of rape victims.[65]

Deir Yassin massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONrI_-qexNw]Deir Yassin. (mirror) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## High_Gravity

The fact remains Israel is the only first world nation in the middle of a whole bunch of third world shit holes, why is that?


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you tend to stretch the meaning and interpretation way out of shape.
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not, the message is clear.
> 
> The indigenous arabs had (and have) the right to self-determination.
> 
> That "right", was stripped from them the moment the "jewish state" was declared.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

No where was that said or implied.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Other than what might be expected in any other Middle Eastern society, I do not see any significant action,  by the Israeli that "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the residents of Deir Yassin.
> 
> You don't call wiping out an entire village for political reasons, "prejudicing" their "civil and religious" rights?
> 
> Yes it does.  If the indigenous arabs have the right to self-determination, how is that "right" not abridged, without their consent for the state of Israel?
Click to expand...



(H)ow is that "right" not abridged, without their consent for the state of Israel?
Where does it say, anywhere, that the Palestinian had the right to deny the Jewish People their right to self determination?  I think you are confusing "civil and religious" rights with the "Rights of Indigenous Peoples" -   (A/RES/66/142  30 March 2012) a very common mistake.  Many debaters on the topic believe that these rights are ancient; but, in point of fact, were only adopted by the General Assembly on 19 December 2011 (A/RES/66/142).   Contemporary thinkers have been kicking around this notion of "all people have rights" since the time of the American-Indian War and the French Revolution _(but not much before then - and certainly not with any vigor)_.  The preponderance of thought, prior to WWI, was the concept of the "Ruling Elite;" which is still today, that which dominates the thinking in the Middle East especially in the Religious Cast, Principalities, and Kingdoms.  The idea that Palestine is an "Islamic Waqf" finds it roots in the concept of the "Ruling Elite."  Oddly enough, the emergence of "religious rights" came first, then individual "civil rights;" and then, only recently did come the consensus on "indigenous rights."  And it is these "indigenous rights" of which you speak; putting yourself way ahead of most other people.  The articulation of these rights in GA/61/295 are less than a decade old, and the concept is not very well know.

That is neither a "civil right" or a "religious right" were abridged (your words); but something new in the way humanity thinks:  "indigenous rights."  (Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 61/295. United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples - 13 September 2007)(See the Annex, it is very important.)
*(COMMENT)*

The indigenous Arab population did not have veto rights over the Jewish population to exercise their right of self-determination.   Not in 1948, not in 1967, and not in 1973.

The recent Articles on the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples do not come about in history until the 21st Century, more than a half century after the outbreak of hostilities.  While you are a forward thinker, it is impossible to turn back the clock and retroactively apply 21st Century logic to a set of conditions with origins nearly a century before (the Zionist concept of a Jewish National Home Theodor Herzl's "_Der Judenstaat_" published in 1896). 



Billo_Really said:


> Why you keep referring to the "passage" of 181, a non-binding resolution, is beyond me.
> 
> The UNSC never ruled on it's passage.
> 
> The resolution just fizzled out and never went anywhere.


*(COMMENT)*

That is your opinion.  While it was not a binding resolution, it was partly implemented in 1948, with the recommendation of the UNSC (S/RES/69 S/1277 4 March 1949), and UNGA A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949.  The original UNGA (A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947) in the sense that neither the Arab party or the Jewish party was required to accept.  But if either party accepted the terms and conditions, the UN would give "sympathetic consideration" "to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations."



Billo_Really said:


> But the Security Council did pass resolutions 242 and 338 reaffirming the Palestinian's right to self-determination and the illegality of the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ *Security Council resolutions 242 (1967) and 338 (1973), as we reaffirmed on 29 June 1977, as well as on the following fundamental principles:* first, acquisition of territory by force is unacceptable; secondly, Israel must end its occupation of territories it has held since the 1967 war; thirdly, the sovereignty, territorial integrity and the independence of each State in the region must be respected, as well as the right of each State in the region to live in peace with secure and recognized borders; fourthly, *the establishment of a just and lasting peace must give due consideration to the rights of the Palestinians*._
> 
> 
> 
> A "right" Israel took from them in 1948.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*


first, acquisition of territory by force is unacceptable;
The State of Israel did not annex (acquire by force) any territory.


secondly, Israel must end its occupation of territories it has held since the 1967 war;
Correct, because the Hostile Arab Palestinian never termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;


thirdly, the sovereignty, territorial integrity and the independence of each State in the region must be respected, as well as the right of each State in the region to live in peace with secure and recognized borders;
Correct, because in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.  Palestine did not come into being until 1988 with the Declaration of Independence;


fourthly, the establishment of a just and lasting peace must give due consideration to the rights of the Palestinians.
The fulfilment of Charter principles requiring the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East was dependent on both parties (Israeli and Palestinian) making an effort; which the Palestinian never did.




Billo_Really said:


> At the time, heads of state of the African Unity put it this way...
> 
> 
> 
> _ The Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the Organization of African Unity, meeting at Libreville in July 1977, declared: "... that a just and lasting peace can be attained *only on the basis of total Israeli withdrawal from all occupied Arab territories *and recognition of the national legitimate right of the Palestinian people to their territory, sovereignty and national independence and *their right to self-determination and the creation of an independent State on their national territory*."_
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike 181, 242 and 338, are binding resolutions.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The State of Israel never denied the Palestinian the "right of self-determination."  In fact, the PLO did declare independence in 1988 during "occupation."  However, the Palestinian, not withstanding the Arafat-Clinton Letter of 1998 was never acted upon by the Executive Committee of the PLO, never termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.

In this case, if the State of Israel is in violation, then so is the State of Palestine equally in violation.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

High_Gravity said:


> The fact remains Israel is the only first world nation in the middle of a whole bunch of third world shit holes, why is that?


Broadly and metaphorically speaking (_and conceding 'unfair-ness' or some modest inaccuracy in a few scattered areas [of effort and geography] here and there_)...

Islam's been resting on its laurels and recovering from its own Dark Age for far too long...

Islam's Golden Age of Science and Medicine (_along with Philosophy and Political Development and the rest of the 'soft' [non-scientific] disciplines_) passed from the world stage by the 1000s and 1100s and 1200s in various regional settings...

A (relatively) brief hot-burning light to lead the Intellectual Life of Man for a couple of centuries - after The West had slipped into feudalism - and then it was gone...

As the intellectual spark of Islam died in various regions, Islamic Science slipped into Maintenance Mode, and slowly degenerated, so that by the 1300s and 1400s, the spark was largely extinguished on a holistic domain-wide basis and their political unity also degenerated and fragmented and they slid still further backwards into tribal fiefdoms and monarchies and sheikdoms, at just about the time that Christianity was finally pulling out of its 1000-year-old Dark and Middle Ages epochs and beginning to manifest symptoms of recovery and new development such as the Renaissance period...

Trouble is, once Islam began to rest on its laurels, and began slipping backwards, they slid into a sort of 'Dark Age' themselves - suffering defeat after defeat and losses of lands and sovereignty after the re-emergence of a revitalized and strengthened and advanced edition of Christendom began to manifest, and falling desperately behind Christendom with its new-found energies and passions... and Islam is just now beginning to wake-up from its own 1000-year-long sleep and coming to the sickening realization that they've got far more catching-up to do then they might have hoped before they shook off their European Colonial and Imperial masters...

Give Islam time... they'll get it together again... if they don't bring the world to the threshold of nuclear war before they finish their generations-long 'makeover' and 'modernizing'.

Meanwhile, it leaves the Israelis dealing with the worst of the summer-school crowds, in a metaphorical political-science context, waiting for that batch of slow-movers to catch up...


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first is factually completely incorrect: the government simply allowed local municipalities, etc, to choose to NOT FUND such 'remembrance' from their budgets.  Basicaly, your 'statement' is an outright falsehood, a lie.
> 
> So is the second, so far as I am aware.
> 
> As to the third, I believe that is also a mis-statement.
> 
> Some list of those alleged '29 other laws' would be helpful - from some reliable source.  So far, you're totally in error and have presented nothing to document those 'facts' which have ben your excuse for so much obscenity, name-calling and outright demonization directed at other posters.
> 
> It makes you appear very uninformed and  extremely ill-equipped to actually *discuss*  the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you consider former leaders of Israel and members of the Knesset, informed enough to speak about this subject?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Avraham Burg, Israels Knesset Speaker from 1999 to 2003 and former chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel*, has long determined that* Israel must shed its illusions and choose between racist oppression and democracy,* insisting the only way to maintain total Jewish control over all of historic Palestine would be to *abandon democracy* and* institute an efficient system of racial separation here, with prison camps and detention villages.* He has also called Israel* the last colonial occupier in the Western world.*
> 
> *Yossi Sarid, who served as a member of the Knesset between 1974 and 2006*, has written of Israels *segregation policy* that *what acts like apartheid, is run like apartheid and harasses like apartheid, is not a duck  it is apartheid.*
> 
> *Yossi Paritzky, former Knesset and Cabinet minister*, writing about the systematic institutionalization and legalization of racial and religious discrimination in Israel, stated that Israel does not act like a democracy in which* all citizens regardless of race, religious, gender or origin are entitled to equality.* Rather, by implementing more and more discriminatory laws that treat Palestinians as second-class citizens,* Israel decided to be like apartheid&#8209;era South Africa, and some will say even worse countries that no longer exist.*
> 
> *Shulamit Aloni, another former Knesset and Cabinet member*, has written that* the state of Israel practices its own, quite violent, form of Apartheid with the native Palestinian population.*
> 
> *In 2008, the Association of Civil Rights in Israel *released its annual human rights report which found that the dynamic between settlers, soldiers and native Palestinians in the occupied West Bank was *reminiscent, in many and increasing ways, of the apartheid regime in South Africa.*
> 
> *Ehud Olmert, when he was Prime Minister*, told a Knesset committee meeting, *For sixty years there has been discrimination against Arabs in Israel. This discrimination is deep&#8209;seated and intolerable* and repeatedly warned that if *we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished.*
> 
> *Ehud Barak has admitted *that *[a]s long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic. If this bloc of millions of *Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or are they now part of the un-informed legions?
Click to expand...

I guess it is not strange to find all this stuff on several sites, and the anti-Semites seem to know just where to find what Leftist Jews say.  Meanwhile, of course, they never take into consideration what Blacks from South Africa who have visited Israel say -- that there is no apartheid in Israel.  I wonder if Loinboy will ever go to Israel like these Blacks did to find out for himself.  I also wonder if it would disturb Loinboy to know that in his own county when someone would order a preliminary title report for the sale of a home that it stated No Blacks and No Chinese allowed.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> I guess it is not strange to find all this stuff on several sites, and the anti-Semites seem to know just where to find what Leftist Jews say.  Meanwhile, of course, they never take into consideration what Blacks from South Africa who have visited Israel say -- that there is no apartheid in Israel.  I wonder if Loinboy will ever go to Israel like these Blacks did to find out for himself.  I also wonder if it would disturb Loinboy to know that in his own county when someone would order a preliminary title report for the sale of a home that it stated No Blacks and No Chinese allowed.


WTF are you talking about?

Leftist-Jews are kick-ass!


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> No where was that said or implied.


Yes it was.  In Lord Balfour's statement.


RoccoR said:


> Where does it say, anywhere, that the Palestinian had the right to deny the Jewish People their right to self determination?


Where does it say the "Jewish People" had the right to deny the Palestinian's their right?


RoccoR said:


> I think you are confusing "civil and religious" rights with the "Rights of Indigenous Peoples" -   (A/RES/66/142  30 March 2012) a very common mistake.  Many debaters on the topic believe that these rights are ancient; but, in point of fact, were only adopted by the General Assembly on 19 December 2011 (A/RES/66/142).   Contemporary thinkers have been kicking around this notion of "all people have rights" since the time of the American-Indian War and the French Revolution _(but not much before then - and certainly not with any vigor)_.  The preponderance of thought, prior to WWI, was the concept of the "Ruling Elite;" which is still today, that which dominates the thinking in the Middle East especially in the Religious Cast, Principalities, and Kingdoms.  The idea that Palestine is an "Islamic Waqf" finds it roots in the concept of the "Ruling Elite."  Oddly enough, the emergence of "religious rights" came first, then individual "civil rights;" and then, only recently did come the consensus on "indigenous rights."  And it is these "indigenous rights" of which you speak; putting yourself way ahead of most other people.  The articulation of these rights in GA/61/295 are less than a decade old, and the concept is not very well know.
> 
> That is neither a "civil right" or a "religious right" were abridged (your words); but something new in the way humanity thinks:  "indigenous rights."  (Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 61/295. United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples - 13 September 2007)(See the Annex, it is very important.)


Spare me the history lesson on semantics.  

The indigenous arabs have the right to self-determination and that has been codified in subsequent resolutions.  

What you said above, is irrelevant to those.


RoccoR said:


> The indigenous Arab population did not have veto rights over the Jewish population to exercise their right of self-determination.   Not in 1948, not in 1967, and not in 1973.


The "Jewish population" did not have veto rights over the indigenous arab population.


RoccoR said:


> The recent Articles on the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples do not come about in history until the 21st Century, more than a half century after the outbreak of hostilities.  While you are a forward thinker, it is impossible to turn back the clock and retroactively apply 21st Century logic to a set of conditions with origins nearly a century before (the Zionist concept of a Jewish National Home Theodor Herzl's "_Der Judenstaat_" published in 1896).


Screw the history lesson!  This is about international law.


RoccoR said:


> That is your opinion.  While it was not a binding resolution, it was partly implemented in 1948, with the recommendation of the UNSC (S/RES/69 S/1277 4 March 1949), and UNGA A/RES/273 (III) 11 May 1949.  The original UNGA (A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947) in the sense that neither the Arab party or the Jewish party was required to accept.  But if either party accepted the terms and conditions, the UN would give "sympathetic consideration" "to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations."


181 was non-binding and un-enforceable.

All the UNSC said was a call to end the fighting.  That's it.

And "sympathetic consideration", is just conjecture on your part.


RoccoR said:


> first, acquisition of territory by force is unacceptable;


You got that right!


RoccoR said:


> The State of Israel did not annex (acquire by force) any territory.


Oh yes they did!


RoccoR said:


> secondly, Israel must end its occupation of territories it has held since the 1967 war;


Oh yes they do!


RoccoR said:


> Correct, because the Hostile Arab Palestinian never termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;


Oh yes they have!


RoccoR said:


> thirdly, the sovereignty, territorial integrity and the independence of each State in the region must be respected, as well as the right of each State in the region to live in peace with secure and recognized borders;


Who could be against that?


RoccoR said:


> Correct, because in 1967, there was no State of Palestine.  Palestine did not come into being until 1988 with the Declaration of Independence;


It doesn't matter if there was no formal "State of Palestine".  Indigenous arabs have the right to self-determination and there's no derogation from that. 


RoccoR said:


> the establishment of a just and lasting peace must give due consideration to the rights of the Palestinians.


Absolutely!


RoccoR said:


> The fulfilment of Charter principles requiring the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East was dependent on both parties (Israeli and Palestinian) making an effort; which the Palestinian never did.


How can they, when they are under the occupation of a foreign force?

They can only do, what the IOF allows them to do. 


RoccoR said:


> The State of Israel never denied the Palestinian the "right of self-determination."


Cut the crap! Oh yes they did.  Did Zionists ask the indigenous arabs if they could create the State of Israel where they have been living for generations?  The answer is "no", they didn't.  As a consequence, their rights were denied.


RoccoR said:


> In fact, the PLO did declare independence in 1988 during "occupation."  However, the Palestinian, not withstanding the Arafat-Clinton Letter of 1998 was never acted upon by the Executive Committee of the PLO, never termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.


Not while their under the occupation of a foreign force.  The "occupation", is the cause of all the violence in the area.  Get that through your fucking head!


RoccoR said:


> In this case, if the State of Israel is in violation, then so is the State of Palestine equally in violation.


Wrong!  A population under occupation, does not share responsibility for the illegality of the occupation itself.


----------



## Billo_Really

High_Gravity said:


> The fact remains Israel is the only first world nation in the middle of a whole bunch of third world shit holes, why is that?


Because they're way under the salary cap and did a lot of business on the free agent market.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it is not strange to find all this stuff on several sites, and the anti-Semites seem to know just where to find what Leftist Jews say.  Meanwhile, of course, they never take into consideration what Blacks from South Africa who have visited Israel say -- that there is no apartheid in Israel.  I wonder if Loinboy will ever go to Israel like these Blacks did to find out for himself.  I also wonder if it would disturb Loinboy to know that in his own county when someone would order a preliminary title report for the sale of a home that it stated No Blacks and No Chinese allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> Leftist-Jews are kick-ass!
Click to expand...

It's no surprise that you like the Leftist Jews because they would like to see the Israelis roll over for the Arab and consequently there will be no state of Israel which you would like to see (not that in real life you have any affinity for the Arabs)..


----------



## pbel

Billo_Really said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the kind of bravado of invincibility that lulls its claimants to defeat...No empire has lasted forever, and I simply doubt Israel will last beyond a couple of hundred years if she stays on a war footing with Islam, especially when the entire ME is armed to the teeth with Nukes.
> 
> Armament Parity has been the great neutralizer in History. Stay tuned.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is any country in the ME that can match Israel's military might.
> 
> Not now, or anytime in the future.
Click to expand...


Perhaps not in the ME...But I think Pakistan is a tinderbox and has close to two hundred nukes today, and their polls today, Left, Right or center, they hate Israel more than India.

They are a car bomb away from Regime change...America could not stop a N. Korean bomb and will not stop the ME from arming...Having said that, the Arabs will use small nip and tug wars that aim at winning a War of Attrition, much like America and Russia...Attrition worked on the Crusaders, Turks, French, Brits... if a Real Just peace is not signed....

America is dis-engaging in the ME as it becomes oil independent.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> It's no surprise that you like the Leftist Jews because they would like to see the Israelis roll over for the Arab and consequently there will be no state of Israel which you would like to see (not that in real life you have any affinity for the Arabs)..


They love their country as much as you do, so cut the crap!


----------



## Billo_Really

pbel said:


> Perhaps not in the ME...But I think Pakistan is a tinderbox and has close to two hundred nukes today, and their polls today, Left, Right or center, they hate Israel more than India.
> 
> They are a car bomb away from Regime change...America could not stop a N. Korean bomb and will not stop the ME from arming...Having said that, the Arabs will use small nip and tug wars that aim at winning a War of Attrition, much like America and Russia...Attrition worked on the Crusaders, Turks, French, Brits... if a Real Just peace is not signed....
> 
> America is dis-engaging in the ME as it becomes oil independent.


If Pakistan goes after anyone, it's going to be India.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_ 

Let's just clarify a few points here.



Billo_Really said:


> And "sympathetic consideration", is just conjecture on your part.


*(COMMENT)*

This is not "conjecture" on my part, but part of the Partition Plan [Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine].  I rarely dabble in "conjecture."



			
				PART I - Future constitution and government of Palestine said:
			
		

> *Section F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS*
> 
> When the independence of *either* the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by *either* of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/RES/181(II)  29 November 1947





Billo_Really said:


> Cut the crap! Oh yes they did.  Did Zionists ask the indigenous arabs if they could create the State of Israel where they have been living for generations?  The answer is "no", they didn't.  As a consequence, their rights were denied.


*(COMMENT)*

That is correct.  Under GA/RES/181(II), Part I, Section B Steps Preparatory to Independence, approved by the General Assembly and Implemented by the Security Council, as coordinated through the UN Palestine Commission, Arab-Palestinian permission to establish an independent Jewish State was not a prerequisite. (See the Section F quotation, _supra_.)

The Security Council Resolution (S/RES/242  22 November 1967 - see Map 3243) was contingent upon the Arab Palestinian's: 

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency;
Acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel; 
Israeli right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;
In fact, the Arab Palestinian, in response to the Security Council Resolution, established the following political position in defiance of the General Assembly Plan:

Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
The partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and its natural right in their homeland, and were inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.
The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.
The Arab-Palestinian concept was of their right to self-determination was the abolishment of the State of Israel.  This was essentially the same position held in February 1948, and in 1964 (three years before the Occupation even started):


			
				The Secretary-General has been informed by the Arab Higher Committee that is determined to persist in its rejection of the partition plan and in its refusal to recognize the resolution of the Assembly and anything deriving therefrom. The Subsequent communication of 6 February to the Secretary-General from the representative of the Arab Higher Committee set forth the following conclusions of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation: said:
			
		

> a. The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> b. The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power or group of powers to establish a Jewish State in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense by force.
> 
> c.	It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said commission.
> 
> d.	The United Nations or its commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> e.	The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> f.	The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> g.	The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> _*The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man women and child."*_​
> 
> 
> 
> At its first session said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PNC, adopted a declaration of the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization, and certified on the Palestine National Charter (Al- Mithaq Al- kawmee Al- Philistini ),In addition  the PNC adopted the Statute of the PLO and elected Mr. Al-Shukairy,  chairman of the Executive Committee . The Council considers the establishment of the state of Israel a continuous aggression on the land and people of Palestine. The Council confirmed the right of the Palestinian people to struggle for the liberation of their homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At its third session said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Council decided to *establish the Liberation Army*, to be the vanguard in the fight to liberate Palestine .  Additionally it unified the *Guerilla factions*, under the framework of the PLO. The Council refused all the projects; which aim to undermine the sole and legitimacy of the PLO to represent all the Palestinian.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Palestine National Council
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Palestine National Council
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/AC.21/9  S/676  16 February 1948
Click to expand...


*SPECIAL NOTE:*  Again, look at the timeline.
Notice that the HoAP established and consolidated hostile activities before the 1967 Occupation.  The impression you consistently give is that the "Occupation" is the cause of hostilities.  That is entirely wrong.  The HoAP's own record clearly shows an intention to organize, instigate, facilitate, participate in, financing, and encourage asymmetric operations (Jihadist/Fedayeen) and the establishment of installations or training camps, in preparation for guerrilla action intended to target the State of Israel and their citizens.​
This was an announcement that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP) had not changed their political assessment or position since 1948, before the establishment of the Jewish State.  Nor did the HoAP have any intention of changing their position.  In effect, the HoAP, made it official, their intention was:

Not to termination of all claims or states of belligerency;
Not to acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel; 
Not to allow Israel the right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.

This all but sealed the conviction that, to reduce the magnitude of belligerency, to ensure the sovereign integrity, and to promote conditions conducive to peace, the Occupation should continue.



Billo_Really said:


> It doesn't matter if there was no formal "State of Palestine".  Indigenous arabs have the right to self-determination and there's no derogation from that.


*(COMMENT)*

In 1947, the right of self-determination was not defined.  It would not be defined for six decades.  Today, your interpretation meets the Article 8, Para 2 b,c,d of the General Assembly Resolution 61/295: United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples of 2007.  It is still not an accepted concept, particularly so in the Middle East.  One needs only look at the Arab Spring _(Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen - to name a few)_ where in every case, conflict erupted.

The Jewish Agency did not establish the Preparatory Steps to Independence, it was the General Assembly of the United Nations.  The Jewish Agency merely followed the prerequisite protocols.  It was the Arab-Palestinians that declined to participate in the process.   When you say that there is "there's no derogation from that," what you need to recognize is that the Arab-Palestinian, by selecting to erupt conflict, denied themselves the opportunity to exercise the "right of self-determination" _(shooting themselves in the foot)_.  This is a pattern of behavior _(self inflicted wounds)_ that was to be seen in the character of the Arab-Palestinians many times in the six decades to follow.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this case, if the State of Israel is in violation, then so is the State of Palestine equally in violation.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  A population under occupation, does not share responsibility for the illegality of the occupation itself.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Read this passage closely:



			
				Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War said:
			
		

> *ARTICLE 6*
> In the case of occupied territory, the application of the present Convention shall cease one year after the general close of military operations; however, the Occupying Power shall be bound, for the duration of the occupation, to the extent that such Power exercises the functions of government in such territory, by the provisions of the following Articles of the present Convention: 1 to 12, 27, 29 to 34, 47, 49, 51, 52, 53, 59, 61 to 77, 143.
> _*SOURCE:*_ GCIV 12 August 1949



To this date, the HoAP has yet to alter their position.  At no point has the HoAP declared peace, and end to hostilities, or the desire to live at peace with their Israel neighbors as resolved in A/RES/194 (III) 11 December 1948.  Thus, in Article 6, _supra_, neither side has reached the "one year after the general close of military operations;" which would normally signal the end of Occupation.

*(EPILOG)*

Much like we do here, in our discussion, the following description says it all:



			
				John Kerry Makes Mideast Trip To Reignite Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks - By JOSEF FEDERMAN 11/05/13 AP Wire said:
			
		

> Three months after the U.S.-brokered talks were launched, there have been no visible signs of progress, and both sides have reverted to a familiar pattern of finger pointing.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry headed to Israel and the Palestinian territories



The question is, after having said all this, is the mess entirely the fault of any one party?  No!  Certainly not.  I can make a very good finger-pointing case for the HoAP; no question.  But the success or failure of Peace Talks rest in the ability for both sides to reach an acceptable compromise resulting in peace.  And that requires both sides actually wanting peace; and being tired of conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> This is not "conjecture" on my part, but part of the Partition Plan [Resolution 181 (II). Future government of Palestine].  I rarely dabble in "conjecture."


181 was nothing more than a recommendation.  It carried no legal weight.  It was shot down in the UNSC.  And will you stop posting it's contents?  I've read every word of 181 more than once, I know what it say's.  There's no need to remind me of it's contents.  This is doing nothing but making these posts very long and difficult to respond to.



RoccoR said:


> That is correct.  Under GA/RES/181(II), Part I, Section B Steps Preparatory to Independence, approved by the General Assembly and Implemented by the Security Council, as coordinated through the UN Palestine Commission, Arab-Palestinian permission to establish an independent Jewish State was not a prerequisite. (See the Section F quotation, _supra_.)


It was not implemented by the UNSC.  I posted the applicable reference from the UN's own website stating this. The UNSC refused to act on it and consequently, this "recommendation", died there.

 Why do you keep insisting the opposite?


RoccoR said:


> The Security Council Resolution (S/RES/242  22 November 1967 - see Map 3243) was contingent upon the Arab Palestinian's:
> 
> Termination of all claims or states of belligerency;
> Acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of the State of Israel;
> Israeli right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;


You left off one important requirement, which was the removal of all military forces from the occupied territories.  This was the main reason for 242, so I find it interesting, you would leave that part out.



RoccoR said:


> In fact, the Arab Palestinian, in response to the Security Council Resolution, established the following political position in defiance of the General Assembly Plan:
> 
> Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
> Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
> The partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and its natural right in their homeland, and were inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.
> The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.
> The Arab-Palestinian concept was of their right to self-determination was the abolishment of the State of Israel.  This was essentially the same position held in February 1948, and in 1964 (three years before the Occupation even started):


Don't you dare quote the Charter on me, in light of all the resolutions Israel is in violation of.



RoccoR said:


> *SPECIAL NOTE:*  Again, look at the timeline.
> Notice that the HoAP established and consolidated hostile activities before the 1967 Occupation.  The impression you consistently give is that the "Occupation" is the cause of hostilities.  That is entirely wrong.  The HoAP's own record clearly shows an intention to organize, instigate, facilitate, participate in, financing, and encourage asymmetric operations (Jihadist/Fedayeen) and the establishment of installations or training camps, in preparation for guerrilla action intended to target the State of Israel and their citizens.​


Then how do you explain when they don't, Israel still responds with tanks and bombs?  



> _...rather than encouraging Hamass engagement in the political process, Israel continued to seek to isolate the group. Instead of encouraging Hamas to moderate its behavior, Israel continued to attempt to provoke the group into a violent response. Israel sent the message to Hamas that its steps towards moderation and political engagement would bear no fruit. *When Hamas cleaned the streets, Israeli bulldozers and tanks destroyed them, and when Hamas erected streetlights, Israeli soldiers shot them out*._


What does erecting street lights have to do with terrorism or a threat to Israeli security?



RoccoR said:


> This was an announcement that the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP) had not changed their political assessment or position since 1948, before the establishment of the Jewish State.  Nor did the HoAP have any intention of changing their position.


This is a lie!

In 2006, Hamas issued a manifesto accepting a two-state solution along the '67 borders...



> _As the parliamentary election scheduled for January 25, 2006 drew near, Hamas published a manifesto that Western news agencies found remarkable for the absence of mention of any goal to eliminate Israel. Hamas candidate Gazi Hamad said it reflected the groups position of seeking a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders. He said Hamas would not recognize that Israel had a right to exist, but that it was seeking to shift strategies away from armed struggle to engagement in the political process. Palestinian cabinet minister Ghassan Khatib said, Having Hamas inside the system is a positive development whereby they have to abide by the rules of the majority and respect the arguments of the administration they are part of, which includes a state built on 1967 borders. It will take time but Hamas will no longer have their own militia. It will be solely a political force._


...which Israel has rejected.



RoccoR said:


> This all but sealed the conviction that, to reduce the magnitude of belligerency, to ensure the sovereign integrity, and to promote conditions conducive to peace, the Occupation should continue.


The "occupation" is considered illegal by every nation on earth and has been codified as such in several UN resolutions and rulings by the ICJ.



> _all of the West Bankincluding East Jerusalemand Gaza are occupied Palestinian territories, to quote from the judgment of the International Court of Justice. Israels annexation of Palestinian East Jerusalem has been rejected by the international community as illegal, null and void in numerous U.N. Security Council resolutions, including 252, 267, 271, 298, 446, 452, 465, 471, 476, 478, 592, 605, 607, 636, 694, 726, and 799. Similarly, all of Israels settlements in the West Bank have been established in breach of international law, to quote again from the ICJ ruling._


There is no legal justification for Israel to maintain the occupation. 



RoccoR said:


> In 1947, the right of self-determination was not defined.  It would not be defined for six decades.  Today, your interpretation meets the Article 8, Para 2 b,c,d of the General Assembly Resolution 61/295: United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples of 2007.  It is still not an accepted concept, particularly so in the Middle East.  One needs only look at the Arab Spring _(Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen - to name a few)_ where in every case, conflict erupted.


That's bullshit!



> _ The right of return is an internationally recognized legal right guaranteed under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, recognized explicitly in the case of Palestinian refugees first in U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194 of December 11, 1948._


This is getting ridiculous.

The right to self-determination is irrefutable.


RoccoR said:


> The Jewish Agency did not establish the Preparatory Steps to Independence, it was the General Assembly of the United Nations.  The Jewish Agency merely followed the prerequisite protocols.


No they didn't!  They unilaterally declared themselves a nation in an area where they only owned 7% of the land.



> _Israel was not created by U.N. fiat in 1947. It was created on May 14, 1948 when the Zionist leadership under Ben-Gurion unilaterally declared its existence, without defining its borders. It is important to stress that Jews at that time owned only 7% of the land of Palestine, and that Resolution 181 neither partitioned Palestine nor conferred upon the Zionist leadership any legal authority for its unilateral declaration._


Then jewish terrorist groups like Irgun went to work and drove out over 700,000 indigenous arabs.  



> _In the conflict that ensued, more than 750,000 Arabs were ethnically cleansed from Palestine. _


    How can you not call that "right" deprivation?



RoccoR said:


> It was the Arab-Palestinians that declined to participate in the process.   When you say that there is "there's no derogation from that," what you need to recognize is that the Arab-Palestinian, by selecting to erupt conflict, denied themselves the opportunity to exercise the "right of self-determination" _(shooting themselves in the foot)_.  This is a pattern of behavior _(self inflicted wounds)_ that was to be seen in the character of the Arab-Palestinians many times in the six decades to follow.


You got that backwards!  The reason for the conflict was to ensure the "rights" of the indigenous arab population.  Which means, there would not have been any conflict, if Zionists would have ensured those rights from the beginning.



RoccoR said:


> Read this passage closely:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 6*
> In the case of occupied territory, the application of the present Convention shall cease one year after the general close of military operations; however, the Occupying Power shall be bound, for the duration of the occupation, to the extent that such Power exercises the functions of government in such territory, by the provisions of the following Articles of the present Convention: 1 to 12, 27, 29 to 34, 47, 49, 51, 52, 53, 59, 61 to 77, 143.
> _*SOURCE:*_ GCIV 12 August 1949
Click to expand...

242 made it clear Israel was to remove all it's forces from the occupied territories.  That is a binding resolution Israel has chosen not to honor.


RoccoR said:


> To this date, the HoAP has yet to alter their position.  At no point has the HoAP declared peace, and end to hostilities, or the desire to live at peace with their Israel neighbors as resolved in A/RES/194 (III) 11 December 1948.  Thus, in Article 6, _supra_, neither side has reached the "one year after the general close of military operations;" which would normally signal the end of Occupation.


See above.  I'm getting sick of repeating the same god-damn point that the occupation is illegal according to every fucking nation on the planet!

All that is being asked is that Israel comply with international law.  And to date, they haven't.  You're god-damn lucky I'm not President, because I would've sent the marines in a long time ago into the OPT and drive every god-damn Israeli back to Israel.



RoccoR said:


> Much like we do here, in our discussion, the following description says it all:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Kerry Makes Mideast Trip To Reignite Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks - By JOSEF FEDERMAN 11/05/13 AP Wire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three months after the U.S.-brokered talks were launched, there have been no visible signs of progress, and both sides have reverted to a familiar pattern of finger pointing.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry headed to Israel and the Palestinian territories
Click to expand...

Kerry wanted to force the Palestinian's back to the peace process unconditionally, which is just what the Israeli's want.  Israel wants to hold all the cards and call all the shots.  There is no way an agreement mutually beneficial  to both sides could be achieved under those conditions.



RoccoR said:


> The question is, after having said all this, is the mess entirely the fault of any one party?  No!  Certainly not.  I can make a very good finger-pointing case for the HoAP; no question.  But the success or failure of Peace Talks rest in the ability for both sides to reach an acceptable compromise resulting in peace.  And that requires both sides actually wanting peace; and being tired of conflict.


It requires the Israeli's ending the occupation and complying with international law.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is, after having said all this, is the mess entirely the fault of any one party? No! Certainly not. I can make a very good finger-pointing case for the HoAP; no question. But the success or failure of Peace Talks rest in the ability for both sides to reach an acceptable compromise resulting in peace. And that requires both sides actually wanting peace; and being tired of conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> _It requires the Israeli's ending the occupation and complying with international law._"
Click to expand...

The Israelis have seized land which once belonged to the Hebrew tribes of antiquity, most recently formerly owned by the Muslim-Arab Palestinians of the region, and all the UN Resolutions in the world and all the legal pissing and moaning in the world will not make the Israelis give them back.

Rather than spin our wheels over UN resolutions and international law over and over and over and over and over again ad infinitum ad nauseum, we need to face the very real prospect that these conquered lands, achieved after the Jordanians foolishly joined the rest of their Arab kindred in the 1967 War, are not going to revert to Arab control in the foreseeable future.

Israel will continue to squeeze more and more Palestinians off the lands of Rump Palestine (that small and quickly shrinking portion of Old Palestine that is still under Arab control) until there is nothing left and all the Palestinians have fled across the borders to Jordan and Lebanon. The Palestinians' own propaganda maps tell us this much, and one does not have to be a scholar with credentials in international political science to project the outcome.

The Arabs cannot stop Israel from doing what it wants, now that virtually all of the Arab countries surrounding Israel are in upheaval and tatters and in no position to make even a half-hearted half-assed effort at war-making against Israel.

The UN - being the toothless old ladies' debating society that it is - is not going to stop Israel.

NATO - being influenced in large-part by countries friendly towards Israel - will not stop it.

The West in general - suffering from Holocaust Guilt and no small amount of secret admiration for the Israelis for kicking ass as well as they have, will not stop it.

The US, specifically, most friendly of all to Israel, will not stop it, the present luke-warm Administration's diffidence notwithstanding.

The truth of the matter is, much of the world (outside the domain of Islam, anyway) either are (a) indifferent, (b) were put-off by Palestinian terrorism (internal and external), (c) will cluck their tongues and serve-up a few words of censure for appearances' sake, or (d) will secretly be glad to see the end of the Palestinian crazies as an organized pseudo-polity.

All our attempts at legitimizing or de-legitimizing don't mean bopkess in the Real World.

And, in the Real World, there's no snowball's-chance-in-hell that the Israelis are gonna give up the Golan or ultimate and overarching control of the West Bank and Gaza.

The Israelis have spent decades encroaching upon the West Bank because that is what most threatens Jerusalem and the bulk of Israeli-controlled lands.

When they have finished with the West Bank (and they're not that far away from their goal now), they'll turn their attention to Gaza.

And The West is going to accept that total assimilation of the West Bank as a fait accompli, after putting on a fine show of clucking their own tongues and wagging their fingers, then going back behind closed doors and laughing at the pathetic Arab clowns who thought they could resist a reborn Israel backed (openly and covertly) by most of The West.

Rather than spending endless months haranguing the legalese for the ten-thousandth time, we might more profitably contemplate the fate of the Palestinians and the reshaping of both Jordan and Lebanon as the remainder of the Palestinians still in the West Bank and Gaza continue to flow into Jordan and Lebanon, to rejoin the millions of their kinsmen already there.

It's gonna be one helluva humanitarian-relief logistics mess, but I suspect we'll get it sorted.

Of course, the Israelis will be ponying-up part of the cost of Wergeld and relief and relocation money and logistics in support of such relief, but, once done, they'll have their spiritual and ancestral homeland back under their own control, in toto, for the first time in a couple of thousand years.

Peace Talks, Round 100, will die a speedy and ignoble death, as so many of the previous ones have.

Both sides want the land.

Only one side can have it.

The side with all the muscle is going to win.

That is why 'Israel is Here to Stay'.


----------



## American_Jihad

*How Israel Makes the World a Safer Place*

November 6, 2013 By Ari Lieberman







On June 7, 1981 Israel provided the world with a lesson on how to deal with international pariahs. Its fighter jets, F-15s and F-16s, swooped over Iraqi airspace and with extreme precision using conventional iron bombs, destroyed a heavily defended Iraqi nuclear facility near Baghdad. At the time, many commentators, media outlets and politicians condemned Israel for its aggression. Over time however, many of those very same commentators came to recognize precocity of Israels Osirak operation and it is now well accepted that Israels preventive use of force then, thwarted a greater conflagration.

In 2007, Israeli intelligence officials approached the United States with incontrovertible proof that Bashar Assad, with the assistance of North Korea and Iran, was in the final stages of completing an atom bomb facility modeled after a North Koreas Yongbyon nuclear reactor. The United States, already embroiled in two unpopular Middle-Eastern wars vacillated, unsure on how to proceed.

Israel, a nation that sits within the belly of the beast, did not possess the luxury of waiting, contemplating or assessing and acted resolutely. On September 6, 2007, Israeli warplanes attacked and destroyed Syrias Al Kibar nuclear complex turning the WMD plant into an expensive heap of scrap metal.

...

It has recently become fashionable among various elitist and radical leftist quarters to criticize the Jewish State on everything ranging from its counter-insurgency operations to its development of barren land in Judea & Samaria. But those radicals should take heed that the world would be a much more volatile place without Israel acting as the point man against Islamic fundamentalism and WMD proliferation. Rather than unwarranted and relentless criticism, a simple thank you would suffice.

How Israel Makes the World a Safer Place | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## RoccoR

Kondor3,  _et al,_

I think everyone understood that the establishment of settlements in the OtP was going to be heartburn.  While, as war crimes good, it is one of the most minor of infractions (being nonviolent and non-lethal), it is the basis for some serious propaganda; as it is technically a violation of international law; even though nothing on the magnitude of the Hostile Arab Palestinians.



Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> _It requires the Israeli's ending the occupation and complying with international law._"
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis have seized land which once belonged to the Hebrew tribes of antiquity, most recently formerly owned by the Muslim-Arab Palestinians of the region, and all the UN Resolutions in the world and all the legal pissing and moaning in the world will not make the Israelis give them back.
> 
> Rather than spin our wheels over UN resolutions and international law over and over and over and over and over again ad infinitum ad nauseum, we need to face the very real prospect that these conquered lands, achieved after the Jordanians foolishly joined the rest of their Arab kindred in the 1967 War, are not going to revert to Arab control in the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I agree that, at some point _(maybe now, maybe later)_ that from a practical standpoint, both the UNGA and the UNSC Resolutions become overtaken by events and become impractical to apply.  Neither side _(Israeli or Palestinian)_ have any real intention of using them as a basis for future peaceful solutions.

Both sides have violated some many international protocols and intentions; that you could write an encyclopedia on just that aspect. 

I must disagree _(in part)_ with the concept that the territories "are not going to revert to Arab control."  While there are a number of different possible outcomes, one that we cannot discount out of hand is the possibility of a two-state solution in which the Arabs create a viable smaller state under the current Declaration of Independence for the State of Palestine.

Another aspect that keeps being injected is the "ancient ties" and the "tenured residency" which each side claims; neither of which is valid in terms of "sovereign control."  While it is nice history to know, none of the shoes on the ground today are any more indigenous then any other; with the rare exception for a few centenarians.  And claims dating back multiple millennium simply have no standing.

From an international standpoint, the community should step back and let the Israelis and Arab-Palestinians resolve their own issues _(fight it out if they must)_.  The State of Palestine is near the edge of toppling as any state can be without being called a failed state.  Both Gaza and the West Bank at totally beggar societies; more interested in conflict than prosperous development; and regional parasites.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> The Israelis have seized land which once belonged to the Hebrew tribes of antiquity, most recently formerly owned by the Muslim-Arab Palestinians of the region, and all the UN Resolutions in the world and all the legal pissing and moaning in the world will not make the Israelis give them back.
> 
> Rather than spin our wheels over UN resolutions and international law over and over and over and over and over again ad infinitum ad nauseum, we need to face the very real prospect that these conquered lands, achieved after the Jordanians foolishly joined the rest of their Arab kindred in the 1967 War, are not going to revert to Arab control in the foreseeable future.
> 
> Israel will continue to squeeze more and more Palestinians off the lands of Rump Palestine (that small and quickly shrinking portion of Old Palestine that is still under Arab control) until there is nothing left and all the Palestinians have fled across the borders to Jordan and Lebanon. The Palestinians' own propaganda maps tell us this much, and one does not have to be a scholar with credentials in international political science to project the outcome.
> 
> The Arabs cannot stop Israel from doing what it wants, now that virtually all of the Arab countries surrounding Israel are in upheaval and tatters and in no position to make even a half-hearted half-assed effort at war-making against Israel.
> 
> The UN - being the toothless old ladies' debating society that it is - is not going to stop Israel.
> 
> NATO - being influenced in large-part by countries friendly towards Israel - will not stop it.
> 
> The West in general - suffering from Holocaust Guilt and no small amount of secret admiration for the Israelis for kicking ass as well as they have, will not stop it.
> 
> The US, specifically, most friendly of all to Israel, will not stop it, the present luke-warm Administration's diffidence notwithstanding.
> 
> The truth of the matter is, much of the world (outside the domain of Islam, anyway) either are (a) indifferent, (b) were put-off by Palestinian terrorism (internal and external), (c) will cluck their tongues and serve-up a few words of censure for appearances' sake, or (d) will secretly be glad to see the end of the Palestinian crazies as an organized pseudo-polity.
> 
> All our attempts at legitimizing or de-legitimizing don't mean bopkess in the Real World.
> 
> And, in the Real World, there's no snowball's-chance-in-hell that the Israelis are gonna give up the Golan or ultimate and overarching control of the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> The Israelis have spent decades encroaching upon the West Bank because that is what most threatens Jerusalem and the bulk of Israeli-controlled lands.
> 
> When they have finished with the West Bank (and they're not that far away from their goal now), they'll turn their attention to Gaza.
> 
> And The West is going to accept that total assimilation of the West Bank as a fait accompli, after putting on a fine show of clucking their own tongues and wagging their fingers, then going back behind closed doors and laughing at the pathetic Arab clowns who thought they could resist a reborn Israel backed (openly and covertly) by most of The West.
> 
> Rather than spending endless months haranguing the legalese for the ten-thousandth time, we might more profitably contemplate the fate of the Palestinians and the reshaping of both Jordan and Lebanon as the remainder of the Palestinians still in the West Bank and Gaza continue to flow into Jordan and Lebanon, to rejoin the millions of their kinsmen already there.
> 
> It's gonna be one helluva humanitarian-relief logistics mess, but I suspect we'll get it sorted.
> 
> Of course, the Israelis will be ponying-up part of the cost of Wergeld and relief and relocation money and logistics in support of such relief, but, once done, they'll have their spiritual and ancestral homeland back under their own control, in toto, for the first time in a couple of thousand years.
> 
> Peace Talks, Round 100, will die a speedy and ignoble death, as so many of the previous ones have.
> 
> Both sides want the land.
> 
> Only one side can have it.
> 
> The side with all the muscle is going to win.
> 
> That is why 'Israel is Here to Stay'.


So basically, what you're saying is, that it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

Who said that?



Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is why 'Israel is Here to Stay'.
> 
> 
> 
> So basically, what you're saying is, that it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You may not agree with what he said; hell I don't always agree with what he says.  BUT, don't inject a line of thought totally out of context.  No one mentioned the Munich Agreement or the "Peace in our Time" compromise by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.  You're mixing apples and oranges again.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Snouter

American_Jihad said:


> It has recently become fashionable among various elitist and radical leftist quarters to criticize the Jewish State on everything ranging from its counter-insurgency operations to its development of barren land in Judea & Samaria.



Besides the lies in the article in general, this is an important example of how clever it is to use of the word "elitist" and why anyone, Alex Jones for example, who uses it in the context of anything other than that describing a zionist and zionism in general is a liar.  Zionism has pretty much fucked the world up beyond repair.  That is not to say Islam or other ridiculous religions are not bad and dangerous.  They too are hilariously stupid and primitive, just like Judaism.  But more importantly, it is saying that Talmudism, Old Testamentism and the raced-based association involved is the most pernicious crime syndicate in world history.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> Who said that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is why 'Israel is Here to Stay'.
> 
> 
> 
> So basically, what you're saying is, that it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may not agree with what he said; hell I don't always agree with what he says.  BUT, don't inject a line of thought totally out of context.  No one mentioned the Munich Agreement or the "Peace in our Time" compromise by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.  You're mixing apples and oranges again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

No I'm not!  The comparison is a valid one.  For the very reason Hitler tried to annex Poland, is the very reason it is outlawed today.  You cannot acquire land by force.  That's what Hitler tried to do.  That's why it is illegal today.  That's why it's illegal for Israel to do it to the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and Gaza.

So anyone saying it is okay to do so, is saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

Now you've made a point.



Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> Who said that?
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically, what you're saying is, that it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may not agree with what he said; hell I don't always agree with what he says.  BUT, don't inject a line of thought totally out of context.  No one mentioned the Munich Agreement or the "Peace in our Time" compromise by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.  You're mixing apples and oranges again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm not!  The comparison is a valid one.  For the very reason Hitler tried to annex Poland, is the very reason it is outlawed today.  You cannot acquire land by force.  That's what Hitler tried to do.  That's why it is illegal today.  That's why it's illegal for Israel to do it to the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and Gaza.
> 
> So anyone saying it is okay to do so, is saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

If your point is:  "You cannot acquire land by force."  Then say that.  Don't wrap it in an analogy that is not applicable.

BTW:  Does your "You cannot acquire land by force" point work both ways?  Equally applicable to the Hostile Arab-Palestinians, as well as, the Israelis?

In 1939, the Polish people (occupied) were not a political or military and security threat to Germany (the occupation force).  The Polish were not on a military build-up and were not making threats to Germany.  The Polish were not politically attacking Germany as an illegal state.

In contrast to the Polish analogy: 

In 1964 (three years before occupation) the Arab-Palestinian wrote the Palestine National Charter _(al- Mithaq al-kawmee al-Philistini)_  The Arab-Palestinian Council considers the establishment of the state of Israel a continuous aggression on the land and people of Palestine _(all the territory formerly under Mandate)_ and declared right of the Palestinian people to struggle for the liberation of their homeland _(Jihadist Fedayeen)_.
In 1966 (a year before occupation) the Arab-Palestinian Council establish the Liberation Army, to liberate Palestine and unified the Guerilla factions, under the framework of the PLO.
This is not a Twix Commercial where Left Twix layers caramel over cookie; and Right Twix cascades caramel over cookie _(oops, did I get that right)_.  No, this is about taking action to prevent a hostile people from pursuing their threat.

There is no comparison.  

In the case of the Polish, the Germans were the aggressor and invaded to occupy a peaceful nation.
In the case of the Palestinians, the Palestinians were the hostile party, and were occupied, for among other reasons, to maintain the integrity and security of the sovereignty that is Israel.

Two entirely different case studies.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..._So basically, what you're saying is, that it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland._"


Nope.

Hitler's people did not have a 2000-year-old claim to the place, and Hitler's people already had a land to live in, before they launched their aggression.

The Jews *DO* have a 2000-year-old claim to the place, and the Jews do *NOT* have another land to live-in, if they lose their Struggle.

Apples and oranges.

Besides... I'm *not* commenting upon Legality or Ethics or Morality here.

*I'm merely showing you the future in this context*.

One that probably has a 9-out-of-10 chance of materializing.

For the reasons I've already outlined.

Legality and Ethics and Morality and their Historical Equivalents (real and otherwise)?

I said nothing about Legality and Ethics and Morality in my Post No. 848, one way or another, never mind conjuring-up (or soliciting) faux historical equivalencies.

We are talking about Control of Land and we are talking about National Survival here.

Where such life-and-death (of a People) matters are concerned, Legality and Ethics and Morality are far less important than Life, in the final analysis.

You have to be alive to be concerned about Legality and Ethics and Morality.

That is a cold, hard truth of the world.

Legality and Ethics and Morality may actually have little or nothing to do with the way this has been unfolding and the way this is going to continue to unfold as we near the End-Game in the Struggle for Palestine.

If you believe that I am wrong concerning the likely continued Inaction of the UNSC or NATO or the US, or if you have some insight into present Arab military capabilities that have eluded the rest of us, feel free to demonstrate otherwise.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Nope.
> 
> Hitler's people did not have a 2000-year-old claim to the place, and Hitler's people already had a land to live in, before they launched their aggression.
> 
> The Jews *DO* have a 2000-year-old claim to the place, and the Jews do *NOT* have another land to live-in, if they lose their Struggle.
> 
> Apples and oranges.
> 
> Besides... I'm *not* commenting upon Legality or Ethics or Morality here.
> 
> *I'm merely showing you the future in this context*.
> 
> One that probably has a 9-out-of-10 chance of materializing.
> 
> For the reasons I've already outlined.
> 
> Legality and Ethics and Morality and their Historical Equivalents (real and otherwise)?
> 
> I said nothing about Legality and Ethics and Morality in my Post No. 848, one way or another, never mind conjuring-up (or soliciting) faux historical equivalencies.
> 
> We are talking about Control of Land and we are talking about National Survival here.
> 
> Where such life-and-death (of a People) matters are concerned, Legality and Ethics and Morality are far less important than Life, in the final analysis.
> 
> You have to be alive to be concerned about Legality and Ethics and Morality.
> 
> That is a cold, hard truth of the world.
> 
> Legality and Ethics and Morality may actually have little or nothing to do with the way this has been unfolding and the way this is going to continue to unfold as we near the End-Game in the Struggle for Palestine.
> 
> If you believe that I am wrong concerning the likely continued Inaction of the UNSC or NATO or the US, or if you have some insight into present Arab military capabilities that have eluded the rest of us, feel free to demonstrate otherwise.


You cannot acquire land by force.  That's what Hitler tried to do and the world community has made that illegal since.  And now, Israel is trying to do the same thing and it _*ain't gonna happen!*_

Catch the clue, you fucking idiot, after 47 years, there is still not a single country on this planet that recognizes Israel's right to that land.


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> Now you've made a point.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> Who said that?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may not agree with what he said; hell I don't always agree with what he says.  BUT, don't inject a line of thought totally out of context.  No one mentioned the Munich Agreement or the "Peace in our Time" compromise by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.  You're mixing apples and oranges again.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not!  The comparison is a valid one.  For the very reason Hitler tried to annex Poland, is the very reason it is outlawed today.  You cannot acquire land by force.  That's what Hitler tried to do.  That's why it is illegal today.  That's why it's illegal for Israel to do it to the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and Gaza.
> 
> So anyone saying it is okay to do so, is saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If your point is:  "You cannot acquire land by force."  Then say that.  Don't wrap it in an analogy that is not applicable.
> 
> BTW:  Does your "You cannot acquire land by force" point work both ways?  Equally applicable to the Hostile Arab-Palestinians, as well as, the Israelis?
> 
> In 1939, the Polish people (occupied) were not a political or military and security threat to Germany (the occupation force).  The Polish were not on a military build-up and were not making threats to Germany.  The Polish were not politically attacking Germany as an illegal state.
> 
> In contrast to the Polish analogy:
> 
> In 1964 (three years before occupation) the Arab-Palestinian wrote the Palestine National Charter _(al- Mithaq al-kawmee al-Philistini)_  The Arab-Palestinian Council considers the establishment of the state of Israel a continuous aggression on the land and people of Palestine _(all the territory formerly under Mandate)_ and declared right of the Palestinian people to struggle for the liberation of their homeland _(Jihadist Fedayeen)_.
> In 1966 (a year before occupation) the Arab-Palestinian Council establish the Liberation Army, to liberate Palestine and unified the Guerilla factions, under the framework of the PLO.
> This is not a Twix Commercial where Left Twix layers caramel over cookie; and Right Twix cascades caramel over cookie _(oops, did I get that right)_.  No, this is about taking action to prevent a hostile people from pursuing their threat.
> 
> There is no comparison.
> 
> In the case of the Polish, the Germans were the aggressor and invaded to occupy a peaceful nation.
> In the case of the Palestinians, the Palestinians were the hostile party, and were occupied, for among other reasons, to maintain the integrity and security of the sovereignty that is Israel.
> 
> Two entirely different case studies.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Germans were the aggressor and invaded a peaceful nation. 

So were the Zionists who invaded Palestine with their apartheid and racist policies. They also brought with them   jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.

There was no recorded incidents of major violence in that area, until the Zionists showed up.  Which means, Zionists were the aggressors.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> "..._You cannot acquire land by force_..."


Sure you can.

Ask the Chinese, regarding Tibet.

Or the Vietnamese, regarding their South.

Or the Israelis, regarding Palestine.

Or a dozen other examples in recent decades.




> "..._That's what Hitler tried to do and the world community has made that illegal since_..."



There it is again, this obsession over Legality.

I have already addressed this.



> "..._And now, Israel is trying to do the same thing and it ain't gonna happen!_"



You are welcome to demonstrate the power(s) that will intervene and enforce your will, and your rationale for believing that they will intervene, at your discretion.



> "..._catch the clue, you fucking idiot, after 47 years, there is still not a single country on this planet that recognizes Israel's right to that land._"



My, my, my... such temper and language... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I am well-aware of the so-called International Legalities attending the situation; in the main and at-large if not in picayune detail; so, in truth, I *DO* have a clue, in your context.

You have yet to reach the conclusion that I have long-since reached: _When the survival of a nation or people are at stake - a people who have nowhere else to go - and when that people are backed (both overtly and covertly, in whole and in part) by very powerful and influential nation-friends - all the so-called International Legalities in the world don't mean shit_.

When you develop a realistic and pragmatic sense of the way the world works, you will come to understand this.

You can rail against this until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change a thing.


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._You cannot acquire land by force_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you can.
> 
> Ask the Chinese, regarding Tibet.
> 
> Or the Vietnamese, regarding their South.
> 
> Or the Israelis, regarding Palestine.
> 
> Or a dozen other examples in recent decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._That's what Hitler tried to do and the world community has made that illegal since_..."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There it is again, this obsession over Legality.
> 
> I have already addressed this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._And now, Israel is trying to do the same thing and it ain't gonna happen!_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are welcome to demonstrate the power(s) that will intervene and enforce your will, and your rationale for believing that they will intervene, at your discretion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._catch the clue, you fucking idiot, after 47 years, there is still not a single country on this planet that recognizes Israel's right to that land._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My, my, my... such temper and language...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am well-aware of the so-called International Legalities attending the situation; in the main and at-large if not in picayune detail; so, in truth, I *DO* have a clue, in your context.
> 
> You have yet to reach the conclusion that I have long-since reached: _When the survival of a nation or people are at stake - a people who have nowhere else to go - and when that people are backed (both overtly and covertly, in whole and in part) by very powerful and influential nation-friends - all the so-called International Legalities in the world don't mean shit_.
> 
> When you develop a realistic and pragmatic sense of the way the world works, you will come to understand this.
> 
> You can rail against this until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change a thing.
Click to expand...


Again, your bravado reflected by the present Israeli leaders is dangerous to the Israeli state...sure you can kick ass like America did in Afghanistan and Iraq and leave with your tail hanging low. Israel and America have Technological  advantages but you can't occupy...And the greater danger today and certainly in the near future, Rocket Wars and dirty Bombs.

No Winners...Time favors the Demography of numbers. The Chinese have them, The Vietnamese had them...Can you name anyone who took a hostile take over that is outnumbered 5 million verses 400 hundred million Arabs and another billion Muslims?

Your bravado like Israel's will diminish in time. No military power lasts forever.


----------



## American_Jihad

Snouter said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has recently become fashionable among various elitist and radical leftist quarters to criticize the Jewish State on everything ranging from its counter-insurgency operations to its development of barren land in Judea & Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the lies in the article in general, this is an important example of how clever it is to use of the word "elitist" and why anyone, Alex Jones for example, who uses it in the context of anything other than that describing a zionist and zionism in general is a liar.  Zionism has pretty much fucked the world up beyond repair.  That is not to say *Islam* or other ridiculous religions are not bad and dangerous.  They too are hilariously stupid and primitive, just like Judaism.  But more importantly, it is saying that Talmudism, Old Testamentism and the raced-based association involved is the *most pernicious crime syndicate in world history*.
Click to expand...


Stinky, they think you are hilariously stupid and primitive, plus you stink...


----------



## Kondor3

pbel said:


> "..._No military power lasts forever._"


It is clear from the Palestinian's own propaganda maps that Israel's goal is to push every last Palestinian in the West Bank and Gaza over the border into Jordan and Lebanon.

I think they are going to succeed.

Safely entrenched behind defensible borders, the interior populated only by trustworthy factions, they will last for centuries, if not longer.

The Arabs have fought and bled for the Palestinians and had their teeth kicked-in for their trouble several times already, and methinks they've had enough for a generation or two.

By that time, the former Palestinians will be long-established as living amongst them and well integrated into Jordanian and Lebanese society.

Neither you nor I nor our children nor grandchildren will live long enough to know which of us is right.

I hear (and contemplate) what you say about the lessons of history.

But, given that Israel is a new thing on the world stage, and given its overwhelming ability to beat-back their attackers, Israel may very well turn out to be the exception that proves the rule.

In any event, they have little to fear over the next couple of generations.

Which is about as far as Man - as a rule - ever looks.


----------



## Iceman

Snouter said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has recently become fashionable among various elitist and radical leftist quarters to criticize the Jewish State on everything ranging from its counter-insurgency operations to its development of barren land in Judea & Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the lies in the article in general, this is an important example of how clever it is to use of the word "elitist" and why anyone, Alex Jones for example, who uses it in the context of anything other than that describing a zionist and zionism in general is a liar.  Zionism has pretty much fucked the world up beyond repair.  That is not to say Islam or other ridiculous religions are not bad and dangerous.  They too are hilariously stupid and primitive, just like Judaism.  But more importantly, it is saying that Talmudism, Old Testamentism and the raced-based association involved is the most pernicious crime syndicate in world history.
Click to expand...


A rep for truth. 

Also, remember what Voltaire said about those who hold the power in a society, they are the ones you can't criticize. It is obvious you cannot criticize the aforementioned criminal syndicate without facing serious consequences throughout the western world.


----------



## Iceman

American_Jihad said:


> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has recently become fashionable among various elitist and radical leftist quarters to criticize the Jewish State on everything ranging from its counter-insurgency operations to its development of barren land in Judea & Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the lies in the article in general, this is an important example of how clever it is to use of the word "elitist" and why anyone, Alex Jones for example, who uses it in the context of anything other than that describing a zionist and zionism in general is a liar.  Zionism has pretty much fucked the world up beyond repair.  That is not to say *Islam* or other ridiculous religions are not bad and dangerous.  They too are hilariously stupid and primitive, just like Judaism.  But more importantly, it is saying that Talmudism, Old Testamentism and the raced-based association involved is the *most pernicious crime syndicate in world history*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stinky, they think you are hilariously stupid and primitive, plus you stink...
Click to expand...


Snouter is right. Look at this site to learn more about this criminal syndicate's entrenched control of our society. 

Who Controls America?


----------



## pbel

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._No military power lasts forever._"
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear from the Palestinian's own propaganda maps that Israel's goal is to push every last Palestinian in the West Bank and Gaza over the border into Jordan and Lebanon.
> 
> I think they are going to succeed.
> 
> Safely entrenched behind defensible borders, the interior populated only by trustworthy factions, they will last for centuries, if not longer.
> 
> The Arabs have fought and bled for the Palestinians and had their teeth kicked-in for their trouble several times already, and methinks they've had enough for a generation or two.
> 
> By that time, the former Palestinians will be long-established as living amongst them and well integrated into Jordanian and Lebanese society.
> 
> Neither you nor I nor our children nor grandchildren will live long enough to know which of us is right.
> 
> I hear (and contemplate) what you say about the lessons of history.
> 
> But, given that Israel is a new thing on the world stage, and given its overwhelming ability to beat-back their attackers, Israel may very well turn out to be the exception that proves the rule.
> 
> In any event, they have little to fear over the next couple of generations.
> 
> Which is about as far as Man - as a rule - ever looks.
Click to expand...


It took the Jews 2,000 years to regain a foothold in ancient Judea, losing it in two hundred years is no biggie in the frame-work of time...

There is no defense in Wars of Religion...Both sides see the one universal god on their side. Threats of a suicide attack with two or tree nukes in Israeli population centers is probable, but I think the war will peter out like all other wars in the ME, the Israelis will leave of their-own volition in a war of attrition. No one can live with the fear of death forever. In fact, the brain drain in Israel is thriving today...It will escalate as tensions rise.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Iceman said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the lies in the article in general, this is an important example of how clever it is to use of the word "elitist" and why anyone, Alex Jones for example, who uses it in the context of anything other than that describing a zionist and zionism in general is a liar.  Zionism has pretty much fucked the world up beyond repair.  That is not to say *Islam* or other ridiculous religions are not bad and dangerous.  They too are hilariously stupid and primitive, just like Judaism.  But more importantly, it is saying that Talmudism, Old Testamentism and the raced-based association involved is the *most pernicious crime syndicate in world history*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stinky, they think you are hilariously stupid and primitive, plus you stink...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Snouter is right. Look at this site to learn more about this criminal syndicate's entrenched control of our society.
> 
> Who Controls America?
Click to expand...


Maybe if you work a little harder and have more ambition, Iceman, you too could rise to pre-eminence in America.


----------



## High_Gravity

Billo_Really said:


> You cannot acquire land by force.



Bullshit, how do you think America was born?your house is sitting on stolen Native American land buddy.


----------



## pbel

High_Gravity said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot acquire land by force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, how do you think America was born?your house is sitting on stolen Native American land buddy.
Click to expand...


Precisely, force was used to create Israel against current International Law and Custom...But have faith that in the long-run overwhelming numbers win the game of attrition...Even America is predicted by Demographers to be a majority Hispanic Nation within fifty years... nothing you can do.


----------



## Jroc

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> Now you've made a point.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not!  The comparison is a valid one.  For the very reason Hitler tried to annex Poland, is the very reason it is outlawed today.  You cannot acquire land by force.  That's what Hitler tried to do.  That's why it is illegal today.  That's why it's illegal for Israel to do it to the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights and Gaza.
> 
> So anyone saying it is okay to do so, is saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If your point is:  "You cannot acquire land by force."  Then say that.  Don't wrap it in an analogy that is not applicable.
> 
> BTW:  Does your "You cannot acquire land by force" point work both ways?  Equally applicable to the Hostile Arab-Palestinians, as well as, the Israelis?
> 
> In 1939, the Polish people (occupied) were not a political or military and security threat to Germany (the occupation force).  The Polish were not on a military build-up and were not making threats to Germany.  The Polish were not politically attacking Germany as an illegal state.
> 
> In contrast to the Polish analogy:
> 
> In 1964 (three years before occupation) the Arab-Palestinian wrote the Palestine National Charter _(al- Mithaq al-kawmee al-Philistini)_  The Arab-Palestinian Council considers the establishment of the state of Israel a continuous aggression on the land and people of Palestine _(all the territory formerly under Mandate)_ and declared right of the Palestinian people to struggle for the liberation of their homeland _(Jihadist Fedayeen)_.
> In 1966 (a year before occupation) the Arab-Palestinian Council establish the Liberation Army, to liberate Palestine and unified the Guerilla factions, under the framework of the PLO.
> This is not a Twix Commercial where Left Twix layers caramel over cookie; and Right Twix cascades caramel over cookie _(oops, did I get that right)_.  No, this is about taking action to prevent a hostile people from pursuing their threat.
> 
> There is no comparison.
> 
> In the case of the Polish, the Germans were the aggressor and invaded to occupy a peaceful nation.
> In the case of the Palestinians, the Palestinians were the hostile party, and were occupied, for among other reasons, to maintain the integrity and security of the sovereignty that is Israel.
> 
> Two entirely different case studies.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Germans were the aggressor and invaded a peaceful nation.
> 
> So were the Zionists who invaded Palestine with their apartheid and racist policies. They also brought with them   jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.
> 
> *There was no recorded incidents of major violence in that area, until the Zionists showed up.*  Which means, Zionists were the aggressors.
Click to expand...

 You're an idiot. The holy land has been fought over for thousands of years, and the first Zionist was Moses


----------



## High_Gravity

pbel said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot acquire land by force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, how do you think America was born?your house is sitting on stolen Native American land buddy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Precisely, force was used to create Israel against current International Law and Custom...But have faith that in the long-run overwhelming numbers win the game of attrition...Even America is predicted by Demographers to be a majority Hispanic Nation within fifty years... nothing you can do.
Click to expand...


Exactly, so Israel is a majority Jewish nation and there is nothing you can do.


----------



## Billo_Really

Jroc said:


> You're an idiot. The holy land has been fought over for thousands of years, and the first Zionist was Moses


Then it shouldn't be very hard for you to post the incidents?


----------



## Billo_Really

High_Gravity said:


> Bullshit, how do you think America was born?your house is sitting on stolen Native American land buddy.


Conquer by conquest has been outlawed since WWII.

Deal with it!


----------



## pbel

High_Gravity said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, how do you think America was born?your house is sitting on stolen Native American land buddy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely, force was used to create Israel against current International Law and Custom...But have faith that in the long-run overwhelming numbers win the game of attrition...Even America is predicted by Demographers to be a majority Hispanic Nation within fifty years... nothing you can do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, so Israel is a majority Jewish nation and there is nothing you can do.
Click to expand...

Your naiveté in Demographics is glaring...the demographic time bomb is ticking within Israel proper with its Israeli/Palestinian citizens.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> There it is again, this obsession over Legality.


Can't help it.  I'm a citizen of a country that is based on the rule of law.  Having respect for the law, is part of what it means to be an American.  That's who American's are.  That's what makes us American's.  Respect for the law.

What you're advocating, is more akin to the folks in Weimar, Germany, than it is the United States of America.


----------



## Billo_Really

pbel said:


> Your naiveté in Demographics is glaring...the demographic time bomb is ticking within Israel proper with its Israeli/Palestinian citizens.


Ain't that the truth!

Israeli bigots are going ape-shit because the arabs fuck more than they do.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, how do you think America was born?your house is sitting on stolen Native American land buddy.
> 
> 
> 
> Conquer by conquest has been outlawed since WWII. Deal with it!
Click to expand...

"_Mister Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it._"


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your naiveté in Demographics is glaring...the demographic time bomb is ticking within Israel proper with its Israeli/Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't that the truth! Israeli bigots are going ape-shit because the arabs fuck more than they do.
Click to expand...

Which is why the Jews are squeezing the Arabs off the land and across the borders to Jordan and Palestine; hectare by hectare, acre by acre, block by block, township by township; until the Jews finally hold it all.

No bunny-rabbit breeding campaign will be allowed to succeed on Israeli-Jewish -controlled soil.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> "_Mister Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it._"


You said you were a member of the armed forces.  If the President ordered your platoon into the OPT to restore order as a UN peacekeeping force, would you go and, if you had to, shoot Israeli's who disrupted the peace?


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Which is why the Jews are squeezing the Arabs off the land and across the borders to Jordan and Palestine; hectare by hectare, acre by acre, block by block, township by township; until the Jews finally hold it all.
> 
> No bunny-rabbit breeding campaign will be allowed to succeed on Israeli-Jewish -controlled soil.


It's called ethnic-cleansing.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "_Mister Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it._"
> 
> 
> 
> You said you were a member of the armed forces.  If the President ordered your platoon into the OPT to restore order as a UN peacekeeping force, would you go and, if you had to, shoot Israeli's who disrupted the peace?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Trouble is, from your perspective, that is never going to happen.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why the Jews are squeezing the Arabs off the land and across the borders to Jordan and Palestine; hectare by hectare, acre by acre, block by block, township by township; until the Jews finally hold it all.
> 
> No bunny-rabbit breeding campaign will be allowed to succeed on Israeli-Jewish -controlled soil.
> 
> 
> 
> It's called ethnic-cleansing.
Click to expand...

Yes.

I agree.

Arab plans to out-breed the Israels do, indeed, present the threat of Ethnic Cleansing.

Added to all the expulsions of Jews of Arab-Muslim lands in the period 1948-1975.


----------



## High_Gravity

Billo_Really said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, how do you think America was born?your house is sitting on stolen Native American land buddy.
> 
> 
> 
> Conquer by conquest has been outlawed since WWII.
> 
> Deal with it!
Click to expand...


Ah so you are ok with taking land by force as long as its in accordance with your time line, so hypocritical of you.


----------



## High_Gravity

pbel said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely, force was used to create Israel against current International Law and Custom...But have faith that in the long-run overwhelming numbers win the game of attrition...Even America is predicted by Demographers to be a majority Hispanic Nation within fifty years... nothing you can do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, so Israel is a majority Jewish nation and there is nothing you can do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your naiveté in Demographics is glaring...the demographic time bomb is ticking within Israel proper with its Israeli/Palestinian citizens.
Click to expand...


What the hell does this even mean? if this all comes down to who pops out the most kids Israel would have been finished years ago, whats your point?


----------



## Billo_Really

High_Gravity said:


> Ah so you are ok with taking land by force as long as its in accordance with your time line, so hypocritical of you.


It's not "my" timeline.  Since WWII, acquiring land by force has been outlawed.

As an American citizen, _*I RESPECT THE LAW!*_


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Absolutely. Trouble is, from your perspective, that is never going to happen.


God-dammit, I had my _"You are a Traitor" _speech all ready to go and you just fucked that up!


----------



## Billo_Really

High_Gravity said:


> What the hell does this even mean? if this all comes down to who pops out the most kids Israel would have been finished years ago, whats your point?


There are only two Israeli born citizens playing in the NBA today.


----------



## pbel

High_Gravity said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, so Israel is a majority Jewish nation and there is nothing you can do.
> 
> 
> 
> Your naiveté in Demographics is glaring...the demographic time bomb is ticking within Israel proper with its Israeli/Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell does this even mean? if this all comes down to who pops out the most kids Israel would have been finished years ago, whats your point?
Click to expand...


My point is that you haven't read how demographics work...and its not just "baby popping."


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> My point is that you haven't read how demographics work...


May palistanian false hopes keep'em at peace, of course.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that you haven't read how demographics work...
> 
> 
> 
> May palistanian false hopes keep'em at peace, of course.
Click to expand...

*While Israel's martial fantasies guarantee more war?*

"Israel is part of a military alliance. Tel Aviv is not a prime mover. It does not have a separate and distinct military agenda.

Israel is integrated into the 'war plan for major combat operations' against Iran formulated in 2006 by US Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM). 

"In the context of large scale military operations, an uncoordinated unilateral military action by one coalition partner, namely Israel, is from a military and strategic point almost an impossibility. Israel is a de facto member of NATO. 

"Any action by Israel would require a 'green light' from Washington.

"An attack by Israel could, however, be used as 'the trigger mechanism' which would unleash an all out war against Iran, as well retaliation by Iran directed against Israel."

Towards a World War III Scenario? The Role of Israel in Triggering an Attack on Iran | Global Research


----------



## pbel

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that you haven't read how demographics work...
> 
> 
> 
> May palistanian false hopes keep'em at peace, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *While Israel's martial fantasies guarantee more war?*
> 
> "Israel is part of a military alliance. Tel Aviv is not a prime mover. It does not have a separate and distinct military agenda.
> 
> Israel is integrated into the 'war plan for major combat operations' against Iran formulated in 2006 by US Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM).
> 
> "In the context of large scale military operations, an uncoordinated unilateral military action by one coalition partner, namely Israel, is from a military and strategic point almost an impossibility. Israel is a de facto member of NATO.
> 
> "Any action by Israel would require a 'green light' from Washington.
> 
> "An attack by Israel could, however, be used as 'the trigger mechanism' which would unleash an all out war against Iran, as well retaliation by Iran directed against Israel."
> 
> Towards a World War III Scenario? The Role of Israel in Triggering an Attack on Iran | Global Research
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but the biblical prediction of Armageddon seems to be right on as Israel marches forward in flaming the drums of war by settlement building attacking neighbors

The ME will be the spark that will start WWlll...


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that you haven't read how demographics work...
> 
> 
> 
> May palistanian false hopes keep'em at peace, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While Israel's martial fantasies guarantee more war?
Click to expand...

Whatever our honorable georgephillip's drivel may quarantee, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> I hate to say it, but the biblical prediction of Armageddon seems to be right on as Israel marches forward in flaming the drums of war by settlement building attacking neighbors. The ME will be the spark that will start WWlll...


So scary! Shouldn't the international community be busying itself with the humanitarian relocation of palistanians from the armageddon danger zone?


----------



## American_Jihad

*Can Israel Survive Obama?*

November 12, 2013 By Noah Beck






In the spring of 2012, when I wrote The Last Israelis, I thought that the pessimistic premise of my cautionary tale on Iranian nukes was grounded in realism. I had imagined a U.S. president who passively and impotently reacted to Irans nuclear ambitions, leaving it to tiny Israel to deal with the threat. But something far worse is happening: the Obama administration is actively making it harder for Israel to neutralize Irans nukes, and more likely that Iran will develop a nuclear arsenal.

A few months after my apocalyptic thriller was published, the New York Times reported that intense, secret exchanges between American and Iranian officials [dating] almost to the beginning of President Obamas term resulted in an agreement to conduct one-on-one negotiations over Irans nuclear program. In those secret talks, did Obama long ago concede to Iran a nuclear capability? If so, then the current Geneva negotiations merely provide the international imprimatur for what Iran and the US have already privately agreed. That might explain why France (of all countries) had to reject a Geneva deal that would have left Iran with a nuclear breakout capability.

An investigation by the Daily Beast also reveals that the Obama administration began softening sanctions on Iran after the election of Irans new president last June, months before the current round of nuclear talks in Geneva The report notes that Treasury Department notices show that the U.S. government has all but stopped the financial blacklisting of entities and people that help Iran evade international sanctions since the election of its president, Hassan Rouhani, in June.Obamas desperately eager posture towards the smiling Mullahs has doomed any negotiation to failure by signaling that the U.S. fears confrontation more than anything else. Obamas pathetic approach to the worlds most pressing national security threat also makes U.S. military action virtually impossible from a public relations and diplomatic standpoint because it promotes the naive idea that more diplomacy will resolve what a decade of talking hasnt. And as long as the Iranians are talking, world opinion will also oppose an Israeli military strike, so naturally Iran will find ways to keep talking until its too late for Israel to act.

...

As if Israel didnt face enough threats and challenges, it must now survive the Obama nightmare until hes out of office in 38 months. Isolated like never before thanks to Obama, the stark choices facing Israels leadership are unimaginably difficult. With roughly 75 times more territory, 10 times as many people, and two times as big an economy, Iran is a Goliath compared to Israel, and has repeatedly threatened to destroy it. So what does David (Israel) do now that Obamas perfidy has been exposed? If the neighborhood bully is bigger than you, has threatened you, and is reaching for a bat, do you preemptively attack him before he gets the bat and becomes even more dangerous?

Can Israel Survive Obama? | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Beachboy

American_Jihad said:


> *Can Israel Survive Obama?*
> 
> November 12, 2013 By Noah Beck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the spring of 2012, when I wrote The Last Israelis, I thought that  the pessimistic premise of my cautionary tale on Iranian nukes was  grounded in realism. I had imagined a U.S. president who passively and  impotently reacted to Irans nuclear ambitions, leaving it to tiny  Israel to deal with the threat. But something far worse is happening:  the Obama administration is actively making it harder for Israel to  neutralize Irans nukes, and more likely that Iran will develop a  nuclear arsenal.
> 
> A few months after my apocalyptic thriller was published, the New York  Times reported that intense, secret exchanges between American and  Iranian officials [dating] almost to the beginning of President Obamas  term resulted in an agreement to conduct one-on-one negotiations over  Irans nuclear program. In those secret talks, did Obama long ago  concede to Iran a nuclear capability? If so, then the current Geneva  negotiations merely provide the international imprimatur for what Iran  and the US have already privately agreed. That might explain why France  (of all countries) had to reject a Geneva deal that would have left Iran  with a nuclear breakout capability.
> 
> An investigation by the Daily Beast also reveals that the Obama  administration began softening sanctions on Iran after the election of  Irans new president last June, months before the current round of  nuclear talks in Geneva The report notes that Treasury Department  notices show that the U.S. government has all but stopped the financial  blacklisting of entities and people that help Iran evade international  sanctions since the election of its president, Hassan Rouhani, in  June.Obamas desperately eager posture towards the smiling Mullahs has  doomed any negotiation to failure by signaling that the U.S. fears  confrontation more than anything else. Obamas pathetic approach to the  worlds most pressing national security threat also makes U.S. military  action virtually impossible from a public relations and diplomatic  standpoint because it promotes the naive idea that more diplomacy will  resolve what a decade of talking hasnt. And as long as the Iranians are  talking, world opinion will also oppose an Israeli military strike,  so naturally Iran will find ways to keep talking until its too late for  Israel to act.
> 
> ...
> 
> As if Israel didnt face enough threats and challenges, it must now  survive the Obama nightmare until hes out of office in 38 months.  Isolated like never before thanks to Obama, the stark choices facing  Israels leadership are unimaginably difficult. With roughly 75 times  more territory, 10 times as many people, and two times as big an  economy, Iran is a Goliath compared to Israel, and has repeatedly  threatened to destroy it. So what does David (Israel) do now that  Obamas perfidy has been exposed? If the neighborhood bully is bigger  than you, has threatened you, and is reaching for a bat, do you  preemptively attack him before he gets the bat and becomes even more  dangerous?
> 
> Can Israel Survive Obama? | FrontPage Magazine



Interesting take on Obama.  I knew there was a problem, but I did not  think it was this bad.  Obama has made some friendly statements to  Muslims.


----------



## RoccoR

Beachboy,  _et al,_

I don't particularly care for the methods of persuasion and the policy development _The President_ has furthered in Central Asia, the Middle East and Africa.  But I can, to a degree, understand the position.  While my actions and responses may be different, you have to appreciate all the various factors _The President_ has to consider in the formulation of foreign policy. 



Beachboy said:


> Interesting take on Obama.  I knew there was a problem, but I did not think it was this bad.  Obama has made some friendly statements to Muslims.



*(REMEMBERING)*



			
				Treaty Between the United States and Tripoli said:
			
		

> *Article 11.*
> 
> As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, &#8212; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, &#8212; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.​
> _*SOURCE:*_ US Constitution.net - Tripoli


*(COMMENT)*

It is not this bad _(as you say)_!  

The innuendo that _The President_ is pro-Islamic or sympathetic to Islam more than any other more familiar religion is simply allowing the emotion of the day to run amuck.  The approach and policy _The President_ expresses today is not so dissimilar as that of the founders _(and I am rather fond of them, and don't think of them as UnAmerican)_.  In 1797, during the administration of _President John Adams_, the Treaty of Tripoli specifically addressed this issue.  _Our President_ may use different words today, but I don't think the intent was much different from that expressed by _President Adams_.

The US may express distress over many things, but --- we don't go to war over reasons of theology or religious belief.  Yes, we may "have gun and will travel" after "radical elements" that attempt to use a corrupt interpretation of a specific belief to further war or conflict in the name of this or that deity; but then, we will always have troublesome Jihadist and Fedayeen that need neutralization.  It wasn't so long ago, that another adversary had uniform belt buckles that proclaimed "Gott mit Uns."  Many of us have this latent belief.  I know that Zeus will be with me at the end of the trail.

I'm not sure that I would be so harsh as to criticize President Obama today, for essentially the same as what a founder did in the early years of the Republic. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## American_Jihad

*Netanyahus Warning*

November 14, 2013 By Joseph Klein 






Thirty years ago President Ronald Reagan famously said, We maintain the peace through our strength; weakness only invites aggression.

Winston Churchill summed up the fatal flaw of appeasement years earlier this way: An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodilehoping it will eat him last.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has taken these words and the lessons of history to heart. He has warned repeatedly how a bad deal with Iran over its nuclear program can have catastrophic consequences for international peace and security. Unless and until Iran is verifiably stripped entirely of its nuclear enrichment capabilities, he believes, the sanctions in place must continue in full force. Prime Minister Netanyahu understands the peril in allowing Iran to get a nuclear weapon. Weakness will only abet the crocodiles appetite. I would go so far as to say that a bad deal could lead to the second, undesired option, Netanyahu said this week. He was evidently alluding to the military option that may be the only means left to stop Iran in time if bad diplomacy leaves Iran a clear path to achieving its nuclear arms objective.

President Obama, on the other hand, is so intent on getting Irans signature on a piece of paper that it doesnt much matter to him what the paper says. At least it will divert public attention away from the travails of Obamacare. But the Obama administrations weak-kneed negotiation strategy is inviting Iran to gain new terrifying tools of aggression.

...

Neither President Obama nor Secretary of State Kerry have leveled with Congress or the American people as to what their endgame really is, assuming they even have one in mind. Dithering around with North Korea in fruitless negotiations led to the endgame of a nuclear armed North Korea. Are we headed down the same road with respect to Iran, relying in the future on containment of a country led by theocratic megalomaniacs? As Ronald Reagan said, weakness only invites aggression.

Netanyahu?s Warning | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Beachboy

American_Jihad said:


> *Netanyahu&#8217;s Warning*
> 
> November 14, 2013 By Joseph Klein
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirty years ago President Ronald Reagan famously said, &#8220;We maintain the peace through our strength; weakness only invites aggression.&#8221;
> 
> Winston Churchill summed up the fatal flaw of appeasement years earlier this way: &#8220;An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile&#8212;hoping it will eat him last.&#8221;
> 
> Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has taken these words and the lessons of history to heart. He has warned repeatedly how a bad deal with Iran over its nuclear program can have catastrophic consequences for international peace and security. Unless and until Iran is verifiably stripped entirely of its nuclear enrichment capabilities, he believes, the sanctions in place must continue in full force. Prime Minister Netanyahu understands the peril in allowing Iran to get a nuclear weapon. Weakness will only abet the crocodile&#8217;s appetite. &#8220;I would go so far as to say that a bad deal could lead to the second, undesired option,&#8221; Netanyahu said this week. He was evidently alluding to the military option that may be the only means left to stop Iran in time if bad diplomacy leaves Iran a clear path to achieving its nuclear arms objective.
> 
> President Obama, on the other hand, is so intent on getting Iran&#8217;s signature on a piece of paper that it doesn&#8217;t much matter to him what the paper says. At least it will divert public attention away from the travails of Obamacare. But the Obama administration&#8217;s weak-kneed negotiation strategy is inviting Iran to gain new terrifying tools of aggression.
> 
> ...
> 
> Neither President Obama nor Secretary of State Kerry have leveled with Congress or the American people as to what their endgame really is, assuming they even have one in mind. Dithering around with North Korea in fruitless negotiations led to the endgame of a nuclear armed North Korea. Are we headed down the same road with respect to Iran, relying in the future on containment of a country led by theocratic megalomaniacs? As Ronald Reagan said, &#8220;weakness only invites aggression.&#8221;
> 
> Netanyahu?s Warning | FrontPage Magazine



I don't believe that even a liberal would disagree with this idea.




​


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> *Can Israel Survive Obama?*
> 
> November 12, 2013 By Noah Beck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the spring of 2012, when I wrote &#8221;The Last Israelis,&#8221; I thought that the pessimistic premise of my cautionary tale on Iranian nukes was grounded in realism. I had imagined a U.S. president who passively and impotently reacted to Iran&#8217;s nuclear ambitions, leaving it to tiny Israel to deal with the threat.


_ "Tiny Israel".  _Now that's funny!

They're the only nuclear power in the ME and you call them _"tiny Israel"._




American_Jihad said:


> But something far worse is happening: the Obama administration is actively making it harder for Israel to neutralize Iran&#8217;s nukes, and more likely that Iran will develop a nuclear arsenal.


Israel hasn't even proven Iran has nukes, nor is making any.

When they pony up the evidence, then we'll talk.




American_Jihad said:


> A few months after my apocalyptic thriller was published, the New York Times reported that &#8220;intense, secret exchanges between American and Iranian officials [dating] almost to the beginning of President Obama&#8217;s term&#8221; resulted in an agreement to conduct one-on-one negotiations over Iran&#8217;s nuclear program. In those secret talks, did Obama long ago concede to Iran a nuclear capability? If so, then the current Geneva negotiations merely provide the international imprimatur for what Iran and the US have already privately agreed. That might explain why France (of all countries) had to reject a Geneva deal that would have left Iran with a nuclear breakout capability.


Oh stop with this Iranian threat bullshit.

This is just like the lead up to the Iraq war. Nothing but conjecture and bullshit.




American_Jihad said:


> An investigation by the Daily Beast also reveals that the &#8220;Obama administration began softening sanctions on Iran after the election of Iran&#8217;s new president last June, months before the current round of nuclear talks in Geneva&#8230;&#8221; The report notes that Treasury Department notices show &#8220;that the U.S. government has all but stopped the financial blacklisting of entities and people that help Iran evade international sanctions since the election of its president, Hassan Rouhani, in June.&#8221;


Why should they have sanctions?  They haven't done anything wrong.



American_Jihad said:


> Obama&#8217;s desperately eager posture towards the smiling Mullahs has doomed any negotiation to failure by signaling that the U.S. fears confrontation more than anything else.


That's bullshit!  You just gotta play the fear card. 




American_Jihad said:


> Obama&#8217;s pathetic approach to the world&#8217;s most pressing national security threat


What threat?  



American_Jihad said:


> also makes U.S. military action virtually impossible from a public relations and diplomatic standpoint because it promotes the naive idea that more diplomacy will resolve what a decade of talking hasn&#8217;t. And as long as the Iranians are &#8220;talking,&#8221; world opinion will also oppose an Israeli military strike, so naturally Iran will find ways to keep talking until it&#8217;s too late for Israel to act.


The world is against any military strike by Israel and has been for some time now.



American_Jihad said:


> As if Israel didn&#8217;t face enough threats and challenges, it must now survive the Obama nightmare until he&#8217;s out of office in 38 months. Isolated like never before thanks to Obama, the stark choices facing Israel&#8217;s leadership are unimaginably difficult.


What threat?  

Unless Israel can provide evidence they've weaponized their program, STFU!



American_Jihad said:


> With roughly 75 times more territory, 10 times as many people, and two times as big an economy, Iran is a Goliath compared to Israel, and has repeatedly threatened to destroy it.


That's a lie.



American_Jihad said:


> So what does David (Israel) do now that Obama&#8217;s perfidy has been exposed? If the neighborhood bully is bigger than you, has threatened you, and is reaching for a bat, do you preemptively attack him before he gets the bat and becomes even more dangerous?
> 
> Can Israel Survive Obama? | FrontPage Magazine


WTF are you talking about?  

Israel _IS_ the bully.


----------



## Billo_Really

Beachboy said:


> I don't believe that even a liberal would disagree with this idea.


What idea?


----------



## Beachboy

Billo_Really said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that even a liberal would disagree with this idea.
> 
> 
> 
> What idea?
Click to expand...


I am told that if you actually read a thread before you post, you will not waste everyone's time while you catch up.  A word to the wise!


----------



## Billo_Really

Beachboy said:


> I am told that if you actually read a thread before you post, you will not waste everyone's time while you catch up.


I have read the thread.  In fact, I probably got more than a 100 posts in this thread than you do.

I asked you a direct question.  Are you going to answer it?




Beachboy said:


> A word to the wise!


Words to the wise, are not usually done with dumbass statements, like you provided above.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am told that if you actually read a thread before you post, you will not waste everyone's time while you catch up.
> 
> 
> 
> I have read the thread.  In fact, I probably got more than a 100 posts in this thread than you do.
> 
> I asked you a direct question.  Are you going to answer it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beachboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> A word to the wise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Words to the wise, are not usually done with dumbass statements, like you provided above.
Click to expand...

112 more posts than BB but he said more in 10 posts than you have in 122.
Check out the thread, "Volunteer going to Palestine" and check the website. They could use a big, strong boy like you to dig tunnels and assemble bomb belts for the coming Jihad.


----------



## American_Jihad

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Israel Survive Obama?*
> 
> November 12, 2013 By Noah Beck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the spring of 2012, when I wrote The Last Israelis, I thought that the pessimistic premise of my cautionary tale on Iranian nukes was grounded in realism. I had imagined a U.S. president who passively and impotently reacted to Irans nuclear ambitions, leaving it to tiny Israel to deal with the threat.
> 
> 
> 
> _ "Tiny Israel".  _Now that's funny!
> 
> They're the only nuclear power in the ME and you call them _"*tiny Israel*"._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> But something far worse is happening: the Obama administration is actively making it harder for Israel to neutralize Irans nukes, and more likely that Iran will develop a nuclear arsenal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel hasn't even proven Iran has nukes, nor is making any.
> 
> When they pony up the evidence, then we'll talk.
> 
> 
> Oh stop with this Iranian threat bullshit.
> 
> This is just like the lead up to the Iraq war. Nothing but conjecture and bullshit.
> 
> 
> Why should they have sanctions?  They haven't done anything wrong.
> 
> That's bullshit!  You just gotta play the fear card.
> 
> 
> What threat?
> 
> The world is against any military strike by Israel and has been for some time now.
> 
> What threat?
> 
> Unless Israel can provide evidence they've weaponized their program, STFU!
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> With roughly 75 times more territory, 10 times as many people, and two times as big an economy, Iran is a Goliath compared to Israel, and has repeatedly threatened to destroy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *That's a lie.*
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what does David (Israel) do now that Obamas perfidy has been exposed? If the neighborhood bully is bigger than you, has threatened you, and is reaching for a bat, do you preemptively attack him before he gets the bat and becomes even more dangerous?
> 
> Can Israel Survive Obama? | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> Israel _IS_ the bully.
Click to expand...


Mr. Bill, all that for me, you spent all that time when you should have sent an email or go to the author's facebook page and state yo B/S to Joseph Klein. I will give you this though:::









[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIZx7PkJUyw]Mr. Bill gets run over - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## holston

You bring up a very good point Mr Sniper Assassin. 

 But how does it follow from that picture that US Anglo Saxons, white males in particular, and Christians, should surrender their rights, freedoms, autonomy, and national sovereignty into the hands of Globalist elitists and Zionist Jews who believe they are ordained to rule the world by God?

 Just because I resent being lorded over by US Jews and their lackys doesn't mean that I'm any more willing to accept Sharia law than I am the "Mashianic Age" the Jews are striving for.  Maybe if the Jews would try being a little less cocky and ostentatious now that they command the bully pulpit, my attitude towards them might soften a bit. 

 Considering the amount of Chutzbah they display and the insults they deliver daily to guys like me via the various forms of media, I can only imagine what someone like the Palestinians have to suffer with. A little resentment is the least one might expect. So I can't say I blame them and still say I am trying to be objective and fair even if they are Muslims. 
 I'm not naive enough to believe there aren't a few insufferable A-holes among them. But how does that justify things like burning kids with phosphorus bombs and kicking families out of their homes any more than it would to gas a million Jews because of a few International crooks among them who are robbing everyone blind?

 I just think it is better for the US if we pay more attention to preserving US sovereignty than we are to assuring Jewish NATIONALISM persists. Otherwise the only nation that will be left after the Banksters get finished will be Israel. I don't think the rest of the world will go for that anymore than I do.


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> Mr. Bill, all that for me, you spent all that time when you should have sent an email or go to the author's facebook page and state yo B/S to Joseph Klein. I will give you this though:::
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Bill gets run over - YouTube


I specifically addressed each of his points.

Why can't you specifically address each of my counter-points?

That's basically the formal way you debate an issue.

Anything other than that, is just pontificating.


----------



## Billo_Really

holston said:


> You bring up a very good point Mr Sniper Assassin.
> 
> But how does it follow from that picture that US Anglo Saxons, white males in particular, and Christians, should surrender their rights, freedoms, autonomy, and national sovereignty into the hands of Globalist elitists and Zionist Jews who believe they are ordained to rule the world by God?
> 
> Just because I resent being lorded over by US Jews and their lackys doesn't mean that I'm any more willing to accept Sharia law than I am the "Mashianic Age" the Jews are striving for.  Maybe if the Jews would try being a little less cocky and ostentatious now that they command the bully pulpit, my attitude towards them might soften a bit.
> 
> Considering the amount of Chutzbah they display and the insults they deliver daily to guys like me via the various forms of media, I can only imagine what someone like the Palestinians have to suffer with. A little resentment is the least one might expect. So I can't say I blame them and still say I am trying to be objective and fair even if they are Muslims.
> I'm not naive enough to believe there aren't a few insufferable A-holes among them. But how does that justify things like burning kids with phosphorus bombs and kicking families out of their homes any more than it would to gas a million Jews because of a few International crooks among them who are robbing everyone blind?
> 
> I just think it is better for the US if we pay more attention to preserving US sovereignty than we are to assuring Jewish NATIONALISM persists. Otherwise the only nation that will be left after the Banksters get finished will be Israel. I don't think the rest of the world will go for that anymore than I do.


Israel is a completely separate country and can deal with their own issues themselves.  

We should not be burdened with solving their problems.

Especially problems they started.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> 112 more posts than BB but he said more in 10 posts than you have in 122.
> Check out the thread, "Volunteer going to Palestine" and check the website. They could use a big, strong boy like you to dig tunnels and assemble bomb belts for the coming Jihad.


Did you go count the number of words?

If you'd just end the occupation, there wouldn't be any need for  a coming jihad.

And* BB *doesn't say anything in his posts that have any substance to them.

If you can't answer a direct question, then you ain't go no point to present.


----------



## Snouter

Amazing, dumbasses invoking plagiarized mythology in the Bible to support their delusions.  As a side note, fortunately for the zionist regime they control the governments of "super powers" so should camel humpers attack that shit hole they call holy they have nothing to fear.


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> Israel is a completely separate country and can deal with their own issues themselves. We should not be burdened with solving their problems.


Like getting a life and a job instead.


----------



## holston

Snouter said:


> Amazing, dumbasses invoking plagiarized mythology in the Bible to support their delusions.  As a side note, fortunately for the zionist regime they control the governments of "super powers" so should camel humpers attack that shit hole they call holy they have nothing to fear.



 Great point! AND, since they are "G-d's Chosen People" they don't really need the billions in aid the US gives them every year or all that free military junk and technology they sell to China since they have "G-d" to protect them. 

 I mean, if they have God to fight their battles, why do they need the US? 

 And since "G-d" is the one who promised them all that land forever as they say, if he cares that much that THEY should have it, then why can't they rely on "G-d" to secure it for them just like He did in the OLD days?

 Maybe they're just as short on faith as they are long on lies.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

holston said:


> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, dumbasses invoking plagiarized mythology in the Bible to support their delusions.  As a side note, fortunately for the zionist regime they control the governments of "super powers" so should camel humpers attack that shit hole they call holy they have nothing to fear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great point! AND, since they are "G-d's Chosen People" they don't really need the billions in aid the US gives them every year or all that free military junk and technology they sell to China since they have "G-d" to protect them.
> 
> I mean, if they have God to fight their battles, why do they need the US?
> 
> And since "G-d" is the one who promised them all that land forever as they say, if he cares that much that THEY should have it, then why can't they rely on "G-d" to secure it for them just like He did in the OLD days?
> 
> Maybe they're just as short on faith as they are long on lies.
Click to expand...


Oh yes, Israel has got G-d's help, but the help the USA gives them and cooperation is great as well.


----------



## Hossfly

holston said:


> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, dumbasses invoking plagiarized mythology in the Bible to support their delusions.  As a side note, fortunately for the zionist regime they control the governments of "super powers" so should camel humpers attack that shit hole they call holy they have nothing to fear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great point! AND, since they are "G-d's Chosen People" they don't really need the billions in aid the US gives them every year or all that free military junk and technology they sell to China since they have "G-d" to protect them.
> 
> I mean, if they have God to fight their battles, why do they need the US?
> 
> And since "G-d" is the one who promised them all that land forever as they say, if he cares that much that THEY should have it, then why can't they rely on "G-d" to secure it for them just like He did in the OLD days?
> 
> Maybe they're just as short on faith as they are long on lies.
Click to expand...

You have to remember, Holstein, God has a lot of projects on his plate these days so he has delegated authority to the IDF to handle small shit.


----------



## pbel

holston said:


> You bring up a very good point Mr Sniper Assassin.
> 
> But how does it follow from that picture that US Anglo Saxons, white males in particular, and Christians, should surrender their rights, freedoms, autonomy, and national sovereignty into the hands of Globalist elitists and Zionist Jews who believe they are ordained to rule the world by God?
> 
> Just because I resent being lorded over by US Jews and their lackys doesn't mean that I'm any more willing to accept Sharia law than I am the "Mashianic Age" the Jews are striving for.  Maybe if the Jews would try being a little less cocky and ostentatious now that they command the bully pulpit, my attitude towards them might soften a bit.
> 
> Considering the amount of Chutzbah they display and the insults they deliver daily to guys like me via the various forms of media, I can only imagine what someone like the Palestinians have to suffer with. A little resentment is the least one might expect. So I can't say I blame them and still say I am trying to be objective and fair even if they are Muslims.
> I'm not naive enough to believe there aren't a few insufferable A-holes among them. But how does that justify things like burning kids with phosphorus bombs and kicking families out of their homes any more than it would to gas a million Jews because of a few International crooks among them who are robbing everyone blind?
> 
> I just think it is better for the US if we pay more attention to preserving US sovereignty than we are to assuring Jewish NATIONALISM persists. Otherwise the only nation that will be left after the Banksters get finished will be Israel. I don't think the rest of the world will go for that anymore than I do.



Well said!


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a completely separate country and can deal with their own issues themselves. We should not be burdened with solving their problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Like getting a life and a job instead.
Click to expand...

I have a life and I just might have a job.

_Back to you..._


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a completely separate country and can deal with their own issues themselves. We should not be burdened with solving their problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Like getting a life and a job instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a life and I just might have a job.
Click to expand...

How so, if we feel _burdened by solving "their" problems_?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like getting a life and a job instead.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a life and I just might have a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so, if we feel _burdened by solving "their" problems_?
Click to expand...


If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?


----------



## pbel

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a life and I just might have a job.
> 
> 
> 
> How so, if we feel _burdened by solving "their" problems_?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?
Click to expand...


They already answered that question with the Liberty incident.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so, if we feel _burdened by solving "their" problems_?
> 
> 
> 
> If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They already answered that question with the Liberty incident.
Click to expand...

Ah, journos similarly expect immunity from bullets while running around a warzone, of course.


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?
> 
> 
> 
> They already answered that question with the Liberty incident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, journos similarly expect immunity from bullets while running around a warzone, of course.
Click to expand...


So if America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a life and I just might have a job.
> 
> 
> 
> How so, if we feel _burdened by solving "their" problems_?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?
Click to expand...

Not the US, of course, because palistanians would be all collateral damage and we don't want to damage endangered species, do we? Bth., feelin' _burdened_ too?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so, if we feel _burdened by solving "their" problems_?
> 
> 
> 
> If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not the US, of course, because palistanians would be all collateral damage and we don't want to damage endangered species, do we? Bth., feelin' _burdened_ too?
Click to expand...


Are you from Israel?


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?
> 
> 
> 
> Not the US, of course, because palistanians would be all collateral damage and we don't want to damage endangered species, do we? Bth., feelin' _burdened_ too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you from Israel?
Click to expand...

I'm from many places, of course.


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the US, of course, because palistanians would be all collateral damage and we don't want to damage endangered species, do we? Bth., feelin' _burdened_ too?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you from Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm from many places, of course.
Click to expand...


Do you live in Israel?


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you from Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm from many places, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you live in Israel?
Click to expand...

I live everywhere, of course, perpetually.


----------



## pbel

docmauser1 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If America was in a war with Israel, who would you support?
> 
> 
> 
> They already answered that question with the Liberty incident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, journos similarly expect immunity from bullets while running around a warzone, of course.
Click to expand...


Israel might be the only country who shoots at its allies. Nothing new, the Lavon affair treachery had already established what we *Should* have expected...

Tx. for your honesty.


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm from many places, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live everywhere, of course, perpetually.
Click to expand...


Ah, the international jew.


----------



## docmauser1

pbel said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbel said:
> 
> 
> 
> They already answered that question with the Liberty incident.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, journos similarly expect immunity from bullets while running around a warzone, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel might be the only country who shoots at its allies. Nothing new, the Lavon affair treachery had already established what we Should have expected...
Click to expand...

Don't get us started with US Forces shooting up canadians, brits etc..


pbel said:


> Tx. for your honesty.


Yeah, right.


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> I live everywhere, of course, perpetually.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, the international jew.
Click to expand...

How so?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I live everywhere, of course, perpetually.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the international jew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...


You are from everywhere, you feel at home everywhere. The international jew.


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the international jew.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are from everywhere, you feel at home everywhere. The international jew.
Click to expand...

Are we alluding that jews are a chosen people?


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the international jew.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are from everywhere, you feel at home everywhere. The international jew.
Click to expand...

How so?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> You are from everywhere, you feel at home everywhere. The international jew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are we alluding that jews are a chosen people?
Click to expand...


No.


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> You are from everywhere, you feel at home everywhere. The international jew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...


You said so.


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are from everywhere, you feel at home everywhere. The international jew.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said so.
Click to expand...

Where?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> You said so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where?
Click to expand...


everywhere


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said so.
> 
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> everywhere
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> 
> 
> everywhere
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Here
http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152812-post922.html

There
http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152840-post924.html

Everywhere.


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> everywhere
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152812-post922.html
> There
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152840-post924.html
> Everywhere.
Click to expand...

How so?


----------



## Billo_Really

*Is Israel still here?
I thought it left already!*​


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> *Is Israel still here? I thought it left already!*​


Hangover much?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> Here
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152812-post922.html
> There
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152840-post924.html
> Everywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...


You're so.


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152812-post922.html
> There
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/8152840-post924.html
> Everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're so.
Click to expand...

How so?


----------



## Iceman

docmauser1 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> 
> 
> You're so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...

You're so.


----------



## docmauser1

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're so.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're so.
Click to expand...

Chosen people?


----------



## holston

Iceman said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you live in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> I live everywhere, of course, perpetually.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, the international jew.
Click to expand...


Jewish Faces in the Chinese Government








> Robert Lawrence Kuhn seen talking about who the new Chinese president will be, while Chinese have no clue about it




















> Sidney Rittenberg (August 14, 1921; Chinese name: L&#464; D&#363;nbái &#26446;&#25958;&#30333 is an American interpreter and scholar who lived in China from 1944 to 1979. He worked closely with People's Republic of China (PRC) founder Mao Zedong, military leader Zhu De, statesman Zhou Enlai, and other leaders of the Communist party during the war, and was with these central Communist leaders at Yan'an. He witnessed first-hand much of what occurred at upper levels of the CCP and knew many of its leaders personally. *He was the first American citizen to join the Chinese Communist Party *(CCP).












> Virginius Frank Coe, Jewish operative in China. From wikipedia: Blacklisted...Coe sought work abroad, eventually finding...the People's Republic of China, where he joined a circle of expatriates working with the government. In 1962, he was joined by Solomon Adler in the circle. Coe participated in Mao's Great Leap Forward, a plan for the rapid industrialization and modernization of China. His works include articles justifying the Rectification campaign.











> *George Sokolsky, Jewish columnist for Hearst appointed to stop Joseph McCarthy's housecleaning*


----------



## holston

Utah Local News - Salt Lake City News, Sports, Archive - The Salt Lake Tribune


> But for Michelle Oelsner &#8212; and others who grew up in Jewish households &#8212; the scene is "completely hysterical" because for many Jews, *Christmas is synonymous with Chinese food.*
> 
> *"That's what Jews do on Christmas," *said the Salt Lake City transplant. *"We go to the movies and eat Chinese food along with all the other Jewish families."*




 That's when they aren't celebrating Hanuka, the Jewish MILITARY victory OVER GENTILES> 


Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah


> *The mashiach will be a great political leader* descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. *He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel.* He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.





> What Will the Mashiach Do?
> 
> Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
> 
> The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in *Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles *(Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).


----------



## Jroc

> *David Lehman&#8217;s Top 10 Christmas Songs Written by Jew*s
> 
> 10. *&#8220;The Christmas Waltz*,&#8221; music and lyrics by Sammy Cahn and Julie Styne. &#8220;Listen to Sinatra&#8217;s version of this interestingly self-referential lyric.&#8221;
> 
> 9. &#8220;*Silver Bells,*&#8221; music by Jay Livingston, lyrics by Ray Evans.
> 
> 8. *&#8220;Winter Wonderland,&#8221;* music and lyrics by Felix Bernard. &#8220;Michael Feinstein was my source on this one. And I&#8217;m surprised! The lyrics involve an impromptu wedding ceremony performed by a Parson Brown. The most interesting lyrical moment is the rhyme of &#8216;snow man&#8217; and &#8216;no, man.&#8217; &#8221;
> 
> 7.* &#8220;Santa Baby,&#8221;* music and lyrics by Joan Ellen Javits and Philip Springer. &#8220;Very enjoyable song. The closest thing to a jazz song here. &#8216;Santa Baby, hurry down the chimney tonight.&#8217; It adapts the conventions of Christmas songs to become a kind of love and seduction song. Eartha Kitt sings a swell version.&#8221;
> 
> 6*. &#8220;Sleigh Ride,&#8221;* lyrics by Mitchell Parrish. &#8220;Sometimes people encounter it as a musical backdrop. On a personal note, I remember flying between the U.S. and England in the 1970s, and at Heathrow or Gatwick or JFK, you would always hear that. I had never liked it particularly, but because of the association it is very dear to me. Parrish&#8212;born Michael Hyman Pashelinsky in Lithuania&#8212;wrote the lyrics to one of the most famous of all jazz standards, Hoagy Carmichael&#8217;s &#8216;Stardust.&#8217; &#8221;
> 
> 5. *&#8220;I&#8217;ll Be Home for Christmas,*&#8221; music by Buck Ram, lyrics by Walter Kent. &#8220;Like &#8216;White Christmas&#8217; and &#8216;Have Yourself,&#8217; this song was popular during World War II, and it appeals to a certain nostalgia and homesickness, not only on the parts of the troops abroad, but the loved ones at home.&#8221;
> 
> 4. *&#8220;I&#8217;ve Got My Love to Keep Me Warm,*&#8221; music and lyrics by Irving Berlin. &#8220;This is a great song that is sometimes overlooked when people think of great Christmas songs, in part because of the other major Berlin effort in this category, and in part because it is one of the few songs on this list that can be done come snow or shine, year in and year out.&#8221;
> 
> 3. *&#8220;Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow*,&#8221; lyrics by Sammy Cahn, music by Julie Styne. &#8220;This is my own favorite of the &#8216;Jingle Bells&#8217;-type Christmas song. I love the way it is used as the exit music in Die Hard.&#8221;
> 
> 2. *&#8220;The Christmas Song&#8221;* (&#8220;Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire&#8221, music and lyrics by Mel Tormé and Bob Wells. &#8220;These first two picks are traditional Christmas songs&#8212;they mention the holiday explicitly, are full of heartfelt sentiment, and may jerk a few tears.&#8221;
> 
> 1. *&#8220;White Christmas,&#8221;* music and lyrics by Irving Berlin. &#8220;Bing Crosby&#8217;s version is the best-selling single ever.&#8221;



http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/music/22910/have-yourself-a-jewish-little-christmas


----------



## holston

My , how things have changed.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Sorry, just had to squeeze this one in.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0k_vHxc2k]Chanukah Honey (Santa Baby Parody) - Rachel Bloom, Jack Dolgen and Dan Gregor - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8LmMtScH3g&list=PLytoqlF_D7BwDebvriIciDcKjNkwWrENX]All I Want for Christmas Is... Jews - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## AquaAthena

*"Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay"*

Let us hope, however after the so-called agreement last night with Iran and the International Community, I don't think so...not without a war. Israel is now at the mercy of a nuclear Iran who hates Israel. Thankfully, Israel has a strong and competent leader in Benjamin Netanyahu, as America lifts it's sanctions on a country determined to wipe Israel off the face of the map.

Obama takes the easy way out again, as he knows Iran will not really ease off the development of nuclear weapons.

A shame we won't drill our own oil on our own soil......


----------



## Kondor3

AquaAthena said:


> "..._Obama takes the easy way out again, as he knows Iran will not really ease off the development of nuclear weapons_..."


My gut tells me to agree with you, but, on reflection, I'm not overly confident about that.

I find myself wondering whether Fearless Leader was obliged to give the Iranians a genuine shot at dismantling weapons-grade uranium enrichment in order to get the Russians and Chinese on board... in essence, saying...

"_OK, OK, OK... we'll try it your way, this time, just to see if you're right. If you are, fine. If not, we don't want to hear any more shit about giving them chances, if they flub this one, and we're gonna get more radical if trying it your want doesn't work. Understood?_"

No clue whether that's true or not, but I sense some-such thing at work behind the scenes.

Then again, I could be completely full of crap with such an explanation.

I have no illusions about Iran, and the eventual outcome, but I'm trying (really hard) to cut Fearless Leader a little slack over this, against my better judgment.

Look at it this way: January 20, 2017 (_the next Inauguration Day_) is a long way off, but there *IS* light at the end of the tunnel, and we can see it now.

If the Obama Team screws the pooch on this one, there may still be enough time to repair the damage once Fearless Leader has left the building.

Or so we must hope.


----------



## holston

Jroc said:


> *David Lehman&#8217;s Top 10 Christmas Songs Written by Jew*s
> 
> 10. *&#8220;The Christmas Waltz*,&#8221; music and lyrics by Sammy Cahn and Julie Styne. &#8220;Listen to Sinatra&#8217;s version of this interestingly self-referential lyric.&#8221;
> 
> 9. &#8220;*Silver Bells,*&#8221; music by Jay Livingston, lyrics by Ray Evans.
> 
> 8. *&#8220;Winter Wonderland,&#8221;* music and lyrics by Felix Bernard. &#8220;Michael Feinstein was my source on this one. And I&#8217;m surprised! The lyrics involve an impromptu wedding ceremony performed by a Parson Brown. The most interesting lyrical moment is the rhyme of &#8216;snow man&#8217; and &#8216;no, man.&#8217; &#8221;
> 
> 7.* &#8220;Santa Baby,&#8221;* music and lyrics by Joan Ellen Javits and Philip Springer. &#8220;Very enjoyable song. The closest thing to a jazz song here. &#8216;Santa Baby, hurry down the chimney tonight.&#8217; It adapts the conventions of Christmas songs to become a kind of love and seduction song. Eartha Kitt sings a swell version.&#8221;
> 
> 6*. &#8220;Sleigh Ride,&#8221;* lyrics by Mitchell Parrish. &#8220;Sometimes people encounter it as a musical backdrop. On a personal note, I remember flying between the U.S. and England in the 1970s, and at Heathrow or Gatwick or JFK, you would always hear that. I had never liked it particularly, but because of the association it is very dear to me. Parrish&#8212;born Michael Hyman Pashelinsky in Lithuania&#8212;wrote the lyrics to one of the most famous of all jazz standards, Hoagy Carmichael&#8217;s &#8216;Stardust.&#8217; &#8221;
> 
> 5. *&#8220;I&#8217;ll Be Home for Christmas,*&#8221; music by Buck Ram, lyrics by Walter Kent. &#8220;Like &#8216;White Christmas&#8217; and &#8216;Have Yourself,&#8217; this song was popular during World War II, and it appeals to a certain nostalgia and homesickness, not only on the parts of the troops abroad, but the loved ones at home.&#8221;
> 
> 4. *&#8220;I&#8217;ve Got My Love to Keep Me Warm,*&#8221; music and lyrics by Irving Berlin. &#8220;This is a great song that is sometimes overlooked when people think of great Christmas songs, in part because of the other major Berlin effort in this category, and in part because it is one of the few songs on this list that can be done come snow or shine, year in and year out.&#8221;
> 
> 3. *&#8220;Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow*,&#8221; lyrics by Sammy Cahn, music by Julie Styne. &#8220;This is my own favorite of the &#8216;Jingle Bells&#8217;-type Christmas song. I love the way it is used as the exit music in Die Hard.&#8221;
> 
> 2. *&#8220;The Christmas Song&#8221;* (&#8220;Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire&#8221, music and lyrics by Mel Tormé and Bob Wells. &#8220;These first two picks are traditional Christmas songs&#8212;they mention the holiday explicitly, are full of heartfelt sentiment, and may jerk a few tears.&#8221;
> 
> 1. *&#8220;White Christmas,&#8221;* music and lyrics by Irving Berlin. &#8220;Bing Crosby&#8217;s version is the best-selling single ever.&#8221;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/music/22910/have-yourself-a-jewish-little-christmas
Click to expand...


 Yep. You have uncovered me. 

 It's been all the tunes that the Jews have either composed or altered and copyrighted that is at the root of it all. 

 If it wasn't for Mel Torme singing White Christmas I wouldn't feel so bad. 
 You have to wonder why it has to be a "white" Christmas he's dreaming of. 

 Let's hear something else for a change. 
 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s1YVwGCgik]Mel Torme - Stardust - YouTube[/ame]

 It has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, half a dozen wars going on indefinitely, or being pissed out of work by a Networking bunch of Supremacists who want all the money and power for themselves. 

 Now listen to Mel get taken to the wood shed by his master.

 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VezW1PtDq5E]Nat 'King' Cole - Stardust - YouTube[/ame]

 How does that make you feel?


----------



## Jroc

holston said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *David Lehmans Top 10 Christmas Songs Written by Jew*s
> 
> 10. *The Christmas Waltz*, music and lyrics by Sammy Cahn and Julie Styne. Listen to Sinatras version of this interestingly self-referential lyric.
> 
> 9. *Silver Bells,* music by Jay Livingston, lyrics by Ray Evans.
> 
> 8. *Winter Wonderland,* music and lyrics by Felix Bernard. Michael Feinstein was my source on this one. And Im surprised! The lyrics involve an impromptu wedding ceremony performed by a Parson Brown. The most interesting lyrical moment is the rhyme of snow man and no, man. 
> 
> 7.* Santa Baby,* music and lyrics by Joan Ellen Javits and Philip Springer. Very enjoyable song. The closest thing to a jazz song here. Santa Baby, hurry down the chimney tonight. It adapts the conventions of Christmas songs to become a kind of love and seduction song. Eartha Kitt sings a swell version.
> 
> 6*. Sleigh Ride,* lyrics by Mitchell Parrish. Sometimes people encounter it as a musical backdrop. On a personal note, I remember flying between the U.S. and England in the 1970s, and at Heathrow or Gatwick or JFK, you would always hear that. I had never liked it particularly, but because of the association it is very dear to me. Parrishborn Michael Hyman Pashelinsky in Lithuaniawrote the lyrics to one of the most famous of all jazz standards, Hoagy Carmichaels Stardust. 
> 
> 5. *Ill Be Home for Christmas,* music by Buck Ram, lyrics by Walter Kent. Like White Christmas and Have Yourself, this song was popular during World War II, and it appeals to a certain nostalgia and homesickness, not only on the parts of the troops abroad, but the loved ones at home.
> 
> 4. *Ive Got My Love to Keep Me Warm,* music and lyrics by Irving Berlin. This is a great song that is sometimes overlooked when people think of great Christmas songs, in part because of the other major Berlin effort in this category, and in part because it is one of the few songs on this list that can be done come snow or shine, year in and year out.
> 
> 3. *Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow*, lyrics by Sammy Cahn, music by Julie Styne. This is my own favorite of the Jingle Bells-type Christmas song. I love the way it is used as the exit music in Die Hard.
> 
> 2. *The Christmas Song* (Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire), music and lyrics by Mel Tormé and Bob Wells. These first two picks are traditional Christmas songsthey mention the holiday explicitly, are full of heartfelt sentiment, and may jerk a few tears.
> 
> 1. *White Christmas,* music and lyrics by Irving Berlin. Bing Crosbys version is the best-selling single ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/music/22910/have-yourself-a-jewish-little-christmas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep. You have uncovered me.
> 
> It's been all the tunes that the Jews have either composed or altered and copyrighted that is at the root of it all.
> 
> If it wasn't for Mel Torme singing White Christmas I wouldn't feel so bad.
> You have to wonder why it has to be a "white" Christmas he's dreaming of.
> 
> Let's hear something else for a change.
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s1YVwGCgik]Mel Torme - Stardust - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> It has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, half a dozen wars going on indefinitely, or being pissed out of work by a Networking bunch of Supremacists who want all the money and power for themselves.
> 
> Now listen to Mel get taken to the wood shed by his master.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VezW1PtDq5E]Nat 'King' Cole - Stardust - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> How does that make you feel?
Click to expand...



Mel when he was younger would be a more far comparison to a younger Nat King Cole ...Mel holds his own quite well I'd say.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDNQIoItdMw]Mel Torme:When Sunny Gets Blue .flv - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## holston

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJf-yAnwRuw]The Zionist Agenda 1-5 David Kelly BBC Time for Truth - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## RoccoR

holston,  _et al,_

Yes, there are a number of people confused here.  And Dr David Halpin presents a very important point  *--->*  the difference between the pro-Zionist and the pro-Israeli.  They are not one and the same.   



holston said:


> The Zionist Agenda 1-5 David Kelly BBC Time for Truth - YouTube


*(COMMENT)*

One needs to listen to this view; not that I support it, but to get a flavor for the presentation by Dr Halpin and his bias.

You need to really review the segment #5.  Some serious accusations are made.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip

AquaAthena said:


> *"Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay"*
> 
> Let us hope, however after the so-called agreement last night with Iran and the International Community, I don't think so...not without a war. Israel is now at the mercy of a nuclear Iran who hates Israel. Thankfully, Israel has a strong and competent leader in Benjamin Netanyahu, as America lifts it's sanctions on a country determined to wipe Israel off the face of the map.
> 
> Obama takes the easy way out again, as he knows Iran will not really ease off the development of nuclear weapons.
> 
> A shame we won't drill our own oil on our own soil......


Under the agreement just negotiated, half of Iran's 20% uranium will be diluted and no more will be produced; IAEA inspectors have been granted unprecedented daily inspections to guarantee no Persian perfidy. Had the DC and Israeli war whores launched cruise missiles that succeeded in taking out half the potential fuel for a "breakout" bomb and the capacity to manufacture more, would that satisfy your blood lu$t for more dead Muslims in the Middle East?


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Obama takes the easy way out again, as he knows Iran will not really ease off the development of nuclear weapons_..."
> 
> 
> 
> My gut tells me to agree with you, but, on reflection, I'm not overly confident about that.
> 
> I find myself wondering whether Fearless Leader was obliged to give the Iranians a genuine shot at dismantling weapons-grade uranium enrichment in order to get the Russians and Chinese on board... in essence, saying...
> 
> "_OK, OK, OK... we'll try it your way, this time, just to see if you're right. If you are, fine. If not, we don't want to hear any more shit about giving them chances, if they flub this one, and we're gonna get more radical if trying it your want doesn't work. Understood?_"
> 
> No clue whether that's true or not, but I sense some-such thing at work behind the scenes.
> 
> Then again, I could be completely full of crap with such an explanation.
> 
> I have no illusions about Iran, and the eventual outcome, but I'm trying (really hard) to cut Fearless Leader a little slack over this, against my better judgment.
> 
> Look at it this way: January 20, 2017 (_the next Inauguration Day_) is a long way off, but there *IS* light at the end of the tunnel, and we can see it now.
> 
> If the Obama Team screws the pooch on this one, there may still be enough time to repair the damage once Fearless Leader has left the building.
> 
> Or so we must hope.
Click to expand...

How would your Hope Change if Iran had as many nuclear weapons as Israel?
If "fairness" doesn't enter into your Reality, what about "hypocrisy?"


----------



## holston

RoccoR said:


> holston,  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, there are a number of people confused here.  And Dr David Halpin presents a very important point  *--->*  the difference between the pro-Zionist and the pro-Israeli.  They are not one and the same.
> 
> 
> 
> holston said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Agenda 1-5 David Kelly BBC Time for Truth - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One needs to listen to this view; not that I support it, but to get a flavor for the presentation by Dr Halpin and his bias.
> 
> You need to really review the segment #5.  Some serious accusations are made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


 If you are referring to the last one, I did. There is not much that I would consider far afield with what he said but you will have to be more specific before I commit myself. 

 I have stated before that because I post a link to an article or a video, that it means that I necessarily agree with everything about it. I post them because I think there is relevant content contained in them. 

 Naturally those links which I post contain information and opinions with which I concur. But seldom do I agree 100% on all accounts on every detail of any subject. I doubt if there are two people on earth who do, otherwise they would have to be identical in all respects. 

 The best we can do is be in general agreement with others enough so that things can be decided in ways which are satisfactory to all. 

 No one can reasonably expect to have their way about all things at all times. In other circumstances such an attitude is considered childish. Sometimes I think the Jews come close to fitting this description, not to imply they are the only ones. Militant blacks often appear to be just as adamant about getting their way as any white man could for instance. 

 The Jews have a lot of nerve seizing every opportunity to ridicule, lambast, insult, denigrate, and besmirch the white, male, and Christian population, while they are simultaneously ordering us around, and demanding that everything should be thus and so in order to accommodate the needs of Israel and their own in the States. Then they call you a Nazi if you protest the least bit. Well, SCREW THAT! 

 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjlpqANnqX4]War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11 (9/11) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## toastman

holston said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> holston,  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, there are a number of people confused here.  And Dr David Halpin presents a very important point  *--->*  the difference between the pro-Zionist and the pro-Israeli.  They are not one and the same.
> 
> 
> 
> holston said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist Agenda 1-5 David Kelly BBC Time for Truth - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One needs to listen to this view; not that I support it, but to get a flavor for the presentation by Dr Halpin and his bias.
> 
> You need to really review the segment #5.  Some serious accusations are made.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are referring to the last one, I did. There is not much that I would consider far afield with what he said but you will have to be more specific before I commit myself.
> 
> I have stated before that because I post a link to an article or a video, that it means that I necessarily agree with everything about it. I post them because I think there is relevant content contained in them.
> 
> Naturally those links which I post contain information and opinions with which I concur. But seldom do I agree 100% on all accounts on every detail of any subject. I doubt if there are two people on earth who do, otherwise they would have to be identical in all respects.
> 
> The best we can do is be in general agreement with others enough so that things can be decided in ways which are satisfactory to all.
> 
> No one can reasonably expect to have their way about all things at all times. In other circumstances such an attitude is considered childish. Sometimes I think the Jews come close to fitting this description, not to imply they are the only ones. Militant blacks often appear to be just as adamant about getting their way as any white man could for instance.
> 
> *The Jews have a lot of nerve seizing every opportunity to ridicule, lambast, insult, denigrate, and besmirch the white, male, and Christian population, while they are simultaneously ordering us around, and demanding that everything should be thus and so in order to accommodate the needs of Israel and their own in the States. Then they call you a Nazi if you protest the least bit. Well, SCREW THAT! *
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjlpqANnqX4]War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11 (9/11) - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...



If you actually believe that is true (the bold) , then you need to get your head checked.

And the reason YOU get called a Nazi is because you speak like one, spewing you're anti - Jewish propaganda. You are a disgusting human being, and people like you are hated all over the world. 

Here's what I think about you complaining about being called a Nazi, you fuckin Nazi:


----------



## holston

toastman said:


> If you actually believe that is true (the bold) , then you need to get your head checked.
> 
> And the reason YOU get called a Nazi is because you speak like one, spewing you're anti - Jewish propaganda. You are a disgusting human being, and people like you are hated all over the world.
> 
> Here's what I think about you complaining about being called a Nazi,* you fuckin Nazi:*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCy_CcfxtW0]"Globalization" - The Greatest Criminal Heist In History - YouTube[/ame]

*Then they call you a Nazi if you protest the least bit. Well, SCREW THAT!*


  The previous lecture contained some useful information about the causes of the perpetual mideast wars but failed to mention Israel's role in it. 

  I won't fault anyone for not listening to the entire film. I only listened to the lecture part, not the question and answer session which followed. 

 The above video contains a few statements by someone who was himself part of the World Bank. 

http://grist.org/article/bank/

 Again, I agree with most but not all of what this man says. 
 He admits that the World Bank has caused some problems. Most importantly he admits that the Fractional Reserve System is flawed. 
 What he doesn't admit is that it was purposely designed that way or that the system provides one of the mechanisms whereby people can get fleeced by the banksters at the top without realizing it. 

  My purpose in interjecting these articles into the mix here is to show that the subject of world domination through International Finance and the push towards a Global Government controlled by the Elitists who are at the helm of these institutions is NOT fiction or merely the products of the minds of "Conspiracy Nuts". That's because neither of these men breathed a word about Israel or the Jews as I recall except briefly in the first lecture where the fact was mentioned that Israel was more advanced in Nuclear Warfare technology than Britain and that the use of advanced nuclear "tactical" bombs have been indicated by those who are in positions to use them. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option



> *Israel refuses to confirm or deny it has nuclear weapons or to describe how it would use them, *an *official policy *of nuclear *ambiguity*, also known as *"nuclear opacity." *This has made it difficult for anyone outside the Israeli government to describe the country's true nuclear policy definitively, while still allowing Israel to influence the perceptions, strategies and actions of other governments.[7][8] However, over the years, some Israeli leaders have publically acknowledged their country's nuclear capability: Ephraim Katzir in 1974, Moshe Dayan in 1981, Shimon Peres in 1998, and Ehud Olmert in 2006.[9]
> 
> During his 2006 confirmation hearings before the United States Senate regarding his appointment as George W. Bush's Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons.[9] In his 2008 book The Culture of War, Martin van Creveld, a professor of military history at Israel&#8217;s Hebrew University, wrote that since Gates admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons,* any talk of Israel's nuclear weapons in Israel can lead to "arrest, trial, and imprisonment."* Thus* Israeli commentators talk about "doomsday weapons" and the "Samson Option."*[10]




  One needs to consider these facts in light of the current talks being conducted to prevent Iran from developing it's own nuclear capabilities.

  In addition consider this:

http://mjayrosenberg.com/2013/11/16/jfk-was-last-president-to-seriously-take-on-the-israelis/



> JFK Was *Last* President To Seriously Take On The Israelis





> This is how the Jerusalem Post described Kennedy&#8217;s actions which are inconceivable given the power of the lobby today.
> 
> THE CLASH began in 1960, when the outgoing Eisenhower administration sought an explanation for the mysterious construction near *Dimona.* It was told that this top-secret activity in the middle of the desert was a harmless textile plant, and no, it could not come and visit.





> When president Kennedy took office in 1961, the disagreement became a full-blown crisis. Like Obama, *Kennedy *was not inherently hostile (unlike Jimmy Carter), but he did not have a special sympathy for the Jewish people. His advisers urged continuous pressure, assuming that Israel would have no choice but to accept US demands. *Every high-level meeting or communication repeated the demand for inspection of Dimona.*



 The Israelis REFUSED to allow inspections of the sort which they have coerced Iran into giving. 


> Finally, *Kennedy had enough, and in a personal letter dated May 18, 1963, the president warned that unless American inspectors were allowed into Dimona (meaning the end of any military activities), Israel would find itself totally isolated.*
> 
> But *then fate intervened and Kennedy was assassinated probably,* in my opinion, because he got in the way of the mob, right-wing Cuban exiles and rogue elements of the CIA. *The Israelis were off the hook. *Not one of Kennedy&#8217;s successors ever even attempted to confront (or even acknowledge) Israel&#8217;s nuclear arsenal.
> 
> For the record, here is JFK&#8217;s letter to Ben Gurion demanding inspection of the Dimona nuclear reactor.  Was Kennedy our last president with any guts? Don&#8217;t bother answering.



 Mr Rosenberg then concludes 'in his opinion' that "he got in the way of the mob, right-wing Cuban exiles and rogue elements of the CIA."

 Bravo for Mr Rosenberg to mention this mostly forgotten aspect of the Kennedy assassination. But, like the media presentations which he mentioned watching, he misses another possible suspect aside from those which he and the media have suggested. 

  The media hammered home the idea that Oswald acted alone. It also allowed mention of all the possible suspects which Mr Rosenberg admits of. It doesn't seem to bother any Jew to allow himself to be pegged also as a "conspiracy nut", so long as any conspiracy does not include any element of the Jewish intelligence community or organized crime. Italian Organized Crime is deemed a somewhat legitimate suspect as  is 'Irish'.  One need not be branded a "conspiracy nut" for mentioning them or called "anti-Italian" or "anti-Irish". CIA "rogue elements", and all sorts of covert collusion among "good ol' boys or wayward Arabs are also permissible, no _encouraged._ 

  The only possible suspect which is not permitted in the line up would be those of the Jewish or Zionist persuasion, whether they be employed in the service to Israel or in service to Jewish organized crime. One would even run a certain amount of risk for even identifying any sort of criminal as being Jewish. 

 I submit to you that if one is to cover ALL the bases it is essential to consider ALL the possibilities and not to exclude any of them for fear of any sort of retaliation, unless of course you happen to be a high profile figure like the President of the US who would be in the cross-hairs of any entity with ambitions of WORLD DOMINATION, such as fanatical and militant ZIONISTS who believe RELIGIOUSLY that they are destined to rule the earth, and whose "Imams" admonish their flocks to work toward that end...... in THIS WORLD...... now....... IN THIS LIFE.

 At the very least, the people who should be subjected to the closest scrutiny in any proper investigation ought to be those who are the _most probable_ suspects, ie those closest to the crime with the greatest means, and motive. Such was NOT the case in the 9/11 investigation. 

 And you are right Mr Rosenberg, none of the Presidents who followed Kennedy likely had any guts. A Shabbos Goy has no need of them in that kind of position. 
  Perhaps we should work to change all that.


----------



## rebelgirl

Israel will always be here. If I could visit one place it would be the Holy Land. I would love to walk the paths on Earth Jesus walked. Jesus is going to split the Eastern Sky and set up His Kingdom there. If anyone is wondering why that small piece of land is still here, it's because it is God's country and the tribes of Israel are going to be there when Jesus comes back. I don't believe we will be here. I think we will be nuked but Israel will surely be here.


----------



## Iceman

The Zionist Regime will be erased from the pages of history.


----------



## Roudy

Dream on.


----------



## Sally

rebelgirl said:


> Israel will always be here. If I could visit one place it would be the Holy Land. I would love to walk the paths on Earth Jesus walked. Jesus is going to split the Eastern Sky and set up His Kingdom there. If anyone is wondering why that small piece of land is still here, it's because it is God's country and the tribes of Israel are going to be there when Jesus comes back. I don't believe we will be here. I think we will be nuked but Israel will surely be here.



You reall should go if the one place you want to visit is the Holy Land.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DKwuocJGwQ&feature=player_embedded]Holy Land Spirit- Casey Henagan talks about his personal spiritual experience in the Holy Land - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Iceman

roudy said:


> dream on.



lol


----------



## Kondor3

Iceman said:


> _The Zionist Regime will be erased from the pages of history._


That's what your paranoid hero thought, just before he put a Walther PPK 7.65mm into his mouth and blew his brains out, in his bunker in Berlin...


----------



## Iceman

Kondor3 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Zionist Regime will be erased from the pages of history._
> 
> 
> 
> That's what your paranoid hero thought, just before he put a Walther PPK 7.65mm into his mouth and blew his brains out, in his bunker in Berlin...
Click to expand...

Israel didn't exist yet, LOL.

Oi Vey, zee Iranians, help us America lol. Pathetic.


----------



## Kondor3

Iceman said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Zionist Regime will be erased from the pages of history._
> 
> 
> 
> That's what your paranoid hero thought, just before he put a Walther PPK 7.65mm into his mouth and blew his brains out, in his bunker in Berlin...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel didn't exist yet, LOL...
Click to expand...

Given that Israel did not declare independence until May 1948, and that Hitler killed himself in April 1945...

Keine Scheiße, Sherlock! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Using the Zionist Regime as a metaphor rather than literalism, backwards continuity may be construed for _International Jewry_, as Adolf-Chuckles would have called it...

Geeez... some kids need everything explained to them...


----------



## Iceman

Kondor3 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what your paranoid hero thought, just before he put a Walther PPK 7.65mm into his mouth and blew his brains out, in his bunker in Berlin...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel didn't exist yet, LOL...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Given that Israel did not declare independence until May 1948, and that Hitler killed himself in April 1945...
> 
> Keine Scheiße, Sherlock!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using the Zionist Regime as a metaphor rather than literalism, backwards continuity may be construed for _International Jewry_, as Adolf-Chuckles would have called it...
> 
> Geeez... some kids need everything explained to them...
Click to expand...

International Jewry and Zionism are two different things. One represents a national state, the other a political, media and economic conspiracy of an ethnic group, and organized group evolutionary strategy. International Jewry certainly promotes Zionism, but is independent of Israel. Israel would not exist with the support of international Jewry. Not the other way around.


----------



## Kondor3

Iceman said:


> "..._International Jewry and Zionism are two different things_..."


Yes. I had that figured out by the age of 15 or so. Thank you, Captain Obvious.


----------



## Iceman

Kondor3 said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._International Jewry and Zionism are two different things_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I had that figured out by the age of 15 or so. Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Click to expand...


You just said they were the same thing. I am glad you knew about zionism and international jewry at 15. Are you a Jew yourself?


----------



## Kondor3

Iceman said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._International Jewry and Zionism are two different things_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I had that figured out by the age of 15 or so. Thank you, Captain Obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just said they were the same thing.
Click to expand...

No, I drew upon a metaphorical faux equivalency in order to link the sentiment to the Nazis... the seed fell on barren ground.




> "..._Are you a Jew yourself?_"


Nope.


----------



## Indeependent

Would International Jewry support Israel...
Every time Israel is involved in a conflict International Jewry funnels whatever they were going to donate to non-Jewish causes to Israel.
Two conclusions...
International Jewry supports Israel.
Non-Jewish charities are quite severely adversely affected by Israeli conflicts with her Arab neighbors.


----------



## toastman

Iceman said:


> The Zionist Regime will be erased from the pages of history.



Correction, the Nazi Regime that you support has been erased from the pages of time, you anti - semitic Shill.

Can't you come up with something new ? The whole "Israel will be erased" bullshit is getting old 

However, I LOVE watching Nazis like you squirm over the fact that Israel exists. 
It keeps me warm inside


----------



## RoccoR

Iceman, Kondor3, _et al,_

We are beginning to slip in the discussion.

Just as the Arab Resistance and the Islamic Resistance are two different movements, so it is that Zionism, Israeli Nationalism, and Jewish Congregationalism are all different pursuits.

In the various discussions about the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, I've often seen these mixed, jumbled, juxtaposed, and placed in confrontation, --- irrationally and illogically.  But none of that actually addresses the potential for settlement and regional peace.  The general character of both cultures (Arab and Jewish) have been irreparably harmed in the ensuing 100 years since it emerged in the late 19th Century.



Iceman said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._International Jewry and Zionism are two different things_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I had that figured out by the age of 15 or so. Thank you, Captain Obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just said they were the same thing. I am glad you knew abourt zionism and international jewry at 15. Are you a Jew yourself?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What most people don't put together in the analysis, is what the end-game goals are for the various players; and how those end-game strategies have changed over time in the several generations of leadership that have lapsed in the near century since the consummation of national aspirations between HRH Emir Faisal _(Kingdom of the Hejaz)_ and Dr Chaim Weizmann _(President of the Zionist Organization)_.

Just as there are remnants of the original movements and holding points of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, on both side of the equation _(Israel 'vs' Palestinian)_, they are no longer representative of the main drivers and prime movers behind either strategies held by the various factions involved in the conflict today.  But, they are still argumentative points of concern between disputing parties that are orbitally bound by these principles that have been overtaken by events and time.  The original authors of the of the first movements are no longer in government today; no longer with us.  And their original intentions have been adjusted, modified, altered and supplanted many times.  The national interest of the various factions involved in the conflict today are transformed.  And still, we argue about factors that have a historical context, but no relative meaning in conflict resolution today.  Whatever the understanding was between HRH Emir Faisal and Dr Chaim Weizmann in January 1919; certainly it don't exist today.  There is a question as to whether or not those understandings were even real --- or merely political theater.

However, it is very clear that attempts to disfigure "..._International Jewry and Zionism_..." is a propaganda effort of the first order; an attempt to resurrect the century old concepts of dead leaders; as if they are somehow relevant today beyond some historical interest.  The key factors that are obstacles to peace today are indoctrinated principles and not promotional to the aspiration of todays 21st Century values of humanity; even though many make great _(cherry picked)_ claims to humanitarian law.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Coyote

*Back on topic folks *


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israels Challenges and Opportunities*

December 3, 2013 by Joseph Puder






The P5+1 interim agreement with Iran was an alarming development for the Jewish State. Iran, unlike Hezbollah and Hamas, is an existential threat for Israel. While Hezbollah constitutes a strategic problem, and Hamas a mere tactical one, both can be managed by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). A nuclear Iran is however a scary reality for Jerusalem. Yet, as the year 2013 comes to a close, regional developments portend political challenges and opportunities for Israel.

Needless to say, relations with the Obama administration, not the best before the interim agreement, have gotten worse. Many Israelis feel that Obama has betrayed them, and that he never really cared to protect Israels back. His promise to Israel that the US wont allow a nuclear armed Iran, they realize, was mere rhetoric. Israelis have not forgotten his pressure on Israel earlier in his administration regarding construction in Jerusalem. As a result, mutual trust between the two governments has suffered a blow.

Some Israeli officials have suggested that in view of Israels widening rift with the Obama administration (albeit, relations with the US Congress is solid as ever), Jerusalem should seek to build up closer relations with some of the Asian giants like China and India, and not place its diplomatic eggs in one basket (the US). The problem is that Israel does not share the same democratic and cultural values with China that it has with the America.

...

In summary, Israels relations with its primary ally, the US, has weakened under Obama. Israel can no longer count on Washington, especially where Iran is concerned. Nevertheless, to quote Ephraim Inbar, Director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic studies, Time is on Israels side, the strength of Israels democracy and its high-tech economy, along with its multi-layered missile defense shield, and the weakness of the Arab countries, including a steep decline in their military capability  leaves Israel in a much more secure regional position than ever before. A nuclear Iran poses a definite threat, and would potentially foster nuclear proliferation in the region. Israel will undoubtedly rise to the challenge from Iran since its survival depends on it.

Israel?s Challenges and Opportunities | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## georgephillip

"During the Cold War, Israel was firmly ensconced in the Western camp. 20-years later, the bilateral relations between Russia and Israel could be described as 'revolutionary.' 

"Israels image in the eyes of ordinary Russians has changed dramatically for the better since Soviet times.  Approximately half a million Russians visit Israel annually and thousands of Israelis live and work in Russia. 

"Closer people-to-people exchanges, common political goals on certain international issues, and growing economic ties have led to an historic rapprochement between the two sides.  

"The fact that over one million Russian speakers live in Israel, contributed to close cultural ties. 

"Although Moscow is a signatory to the interim agreement with Iran, neither Russia nor Israel wish to see a nuclear armed Iran."

*Most Russians don't want to see a nuclear-armed Israel, either.
What makes Jews less likely to use nuclear weapons than Persians?*

Israel?s Challenges and Opportunities | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Kondor3

georgephillip said:


> ..._Most Russians don't want to see a nuclear-armed Israel, either_...


Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.



> "..._What makes Jews less likely to use nuclear weapons than Persians?_"


Ummmm...

The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?

The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?

Just a guess.


----------



## georgephillip

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..._Most Russians don't want to see a nuclear-armed Israel, either_...
> 
> 
> 
> Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._What makes Jews less likely to use nuclear weapons than Persians?_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummmm...
> 
> The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?
> 
> The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?
> 
> Just a guess.
Click to expand...

*Care to guess how many neighbors the Persians have invaded since 1948 or how the radical Persians compare to greedy Jews in piling up UNSC condemnations?*

List of the UN resolutions concerning Israel and Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> Care to guess how many neighbors the Persians have invaded since 1948 or how the radical Persians compare to greedy Jews in piling up UNSC condemnations?


Drivel?


----------



## MHunterB

"......compare to greedy Jews in piling up UNSC condemnations?"

The language above is blatant bigot-speak, so nobody CARES what the purported "question" was - unless of course they're another bigot.

Oh, and those so-claimed 'Persians' invaded the US, back in 1979.   And unlawfully held US citizens as captives.


----------



## Jroc

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..._Most Russians don't want to see a nuclear-armed Israel, either_...
> 
> 
> 
> Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._What makes Jews less likely to use nuclear weapons than Persians?_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummmm...
> 
> The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?
> 
> The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?
> 
> Just a guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Care to guess how many neighbors the Persians have invaded since 1948 or how the radical Persians compare to greedy Jews in piling up UNSC condemnations?*
> 
> List of the UN resolutions concerning Israel and Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


"Persains" fund and send weapons that slaughter people in Syria, Egypt, Lebanon Pakistan, Afghanistan and so on you're a joke georgie


----------



## Iceman

Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.


----------



## Jroc

Iceman said:


> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.



Arabs can't stop killing each other you're an idiot


----------



## Iceman

Jroc said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs can't stop killing each other you're an idiot
Click to expand...


They just need to turn the violence outward, they will pounce when they think Israel is weak. The Arabs wouldn't even be the primary trigger. Iran would be the puppet-master behind Israeli destruction most likely. 

America is on the decline, it's collapse is an inevitability. I would be schwitzing for your fellow tribespeople in Israel.


----------



## aris2chat

Most aid is in the form of load guarantees.  The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
Loans get paid back with interest.
Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value.  Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers. 
Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid.  US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.


----------



## Iceman

aris2chat said:


> Most aid is in the form of load guarantees.  The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
> Loans get paid back with interest.
> Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value.  Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
> Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid.  US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.



This is true, Saudi Arabia would collapse without America as well. It will be amusing to see to see the YKWs and the House of Saud shit their britches when they have to pay for the consequences of their past actions.


----------



## aris2chat

Saudi could pay the princes less.  They don't need 24K gold Bentleys and BMWs or jewel encrusted toilets.  
Qatar could cut back on $7 million teddy bears when it is haram for kids to have dolls and stuffed animals as toys.


----------



## georgephillip

Iceman said:


> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.


I wonder if you fully appreciate the impact on your food prices that a limited nuclear exchange in the Middle East could produce?


----------



## Jroc

Iceman said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs can't stop killing each other you're an idiot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They just need to turn the violence outward, they will pounce when they think Israel is weak. The Arabs wouldn't even be the primary trigger. Iran would be the puppet-master behind Israeli destruction most likely.
> 
> America is on the decline, it's collapse is an inevitability. I would be schwitzing for your fellow tribespeople in Israel.
Click to expand...


Israel is never going to be weak...there's plenty of support without U.S. aid...Nazis hoping for the collapse of the U.S. and dead Jews...Some things never change


----------



## American_Jihad

Iceman said:


> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.



Israel will be the last one standing, you on the other hand got smoked...


----------



## georgephillip

American_Jihad said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will be the last one standing, you on the other hand got smoked...
Click to expand...

*Here is the only reason why Israel is still standing:*

"Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, 
the United States has provided Israel $118 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in 
bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance, 
although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance. Strong congressional 
support for Israel has resulted in Israel receiving benefits not available to any other countries; for 
example, Israel can use some U.S. military assistance both for research and development in the 
United States and for military purchases from Israeli manufacturers. In addition, U.S. assistance 
earmarked for Israel is generally delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year, while most other 
recipients normally receive aid in installments. In addition to receiving U.S. State Department- 
administered foreign assistance, Israel also receives funds from annual defense appropriations 
bills for rocket and missile defense programs. Israel pursues some of those programs jointly with 
the United States. "

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

"For FY2014, the Administration is requesting $3.1 billion in FMF to Israel and $15 million in 
Migration and Refugee Assistance. The Missile Defense Agencys FY2014 request for Israeli 
Cooperative Programs is $95.782 million, including $52.607 million for Arrow III, $32.512 
million for Davids Sling, and $10.663 million for Arrow II. The Department of Defense also is 
requesting $220 million in FY2014 Procurement, Defense-wide funds for Iron Dome."


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Better to give Israel military aid (most of which has to be purchased from the US arms industry) than to give the Islamic regimes who would wipe out Israel in an instant and then spread Islam far and wide.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Better to give Israel military aid (most of which has to be purchased from the US arms industry) than to give the Islamic regimes who would wipe out Israel in an instant and then spread Islam far and wide.


And just how would they do that?

Israel is the biggest military power in the ME.


----------



## georgephillip

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Better to give Israel military aid (most of which has to be purchased from the US arms industry) than to give the Islamic regimes who would wipe out Israel in an instant and then spread Islam far and wide.


*Israel is far more likely to wipe out her neighbors than fall victim to Islam, as I'm  sure you already know:*

"Israel refuses to confirm or deny it has nuclear weapons or to describe how it would use them, an official policy of nuclear ambiguity, also known as 'nuclear opacity.' 

"This has made it difficult for anyone outside the Israeli government to describe the country's true nuclear policy definitively, while still allowing Israel to influence the perceptions, strategies and actions of other governments.[7][8] 

"However, over the years, some Israeli leaders have publically acknowledged their country's nuclear capability: Ephraim Katzir in 1974, Moshe Dayan in 1981, Shimon Peres in 1998, and Ehud Olmert in 2006.[9]

"During his 2006 confirmation hearings before the United States Senate regarding his appointment as George W. Bush's Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons.[9] 

"In his 2008 book The Culture of War, Martin van Creveld, a professor of military history at Israels Hebrew University, wrote that since Gates admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons, any talk of Israel's nuclear weapons in Israel can lead to 'arrest, trial, and imprisonment.' 

"Thus Israeli commentators talk about 'doomsday weapons' and the 'Samson Option.'[10]

"Nevertheless, as early as 1976, the CIA believed that Israel possessed 10 to 20 nuclear weapons.[11] 

"By 2002 it was estimated that the number had increased to between 75 and 200 thermonuclear weapons, each in the multiple-megaton range.[12] 

"Kenneth S. Brower has estimated as many as 400 nuclear weapons.[13] 

"These can be launched from land, sea and air.[14] 

"This gives Israel a second strike option even if much of the country is destroyed.[15]"

Samson Option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Peterf

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..._Most Russians don't want to see a nuclear-armed Israel, either_...
> 
> 
> 
> Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._What makes Jews less likely to use nuclear weapons than Persians?_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummmm...
> 
> The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?
> 
> The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?
> 
> Just a guess.
Click to expand...


NO!   Not a guess!   More like the sober unvarnished truth.   One might add that Israel is completely democratic and that there is no example of a democracy starting an aggressive war against its neighbours.


----------



## Peterf

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better to give Israel military aid (most of which has to be purchased from the US arms industry) than to give the Islamic regimes who would wipe out Israel in an instant and then spread Islam far and wide.
> 
> 
> 
> And just how would they do that?
> 
> Israel is the biggest military power in the ME.
Click to expand...


No, very far from the biggest military power.  Just the best.


----------



## Billo_Really

Peterf said:


> No, very far from the biggest military power.  Just the best.


They're the only nuclear power in the ME, that's pretty big!


----------



## georgephillip

Peterf said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..._Most Russians don't want to see a nuclear-armed Israel, either_...
> 
> 
> 
> Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._What makes Jews less likely to use nuclear weapons than Persians?_"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummmm...
> 
> The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?
> 
> The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?
> 
> Just a guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO!   Not a guess!   More like the sober unvarnished truth.   One might add that Israel is completely democratic and that there is no example of a democracy starting an aggressive war against its neighbours.
Click to expand...

Israel is far from completely democratic, and its prime protector, aka, the greatest purveyor of violence  in the world, has been waging aggressive war against its neighbors (and others) since its inception.

"*The MexicanAmerican War, also known as the Mexican War, the U.S.Mexican War, the Invasion of Mexico, the U.S. Intervention, 'The War of Irrelevants', or the United States War Against Mexico, was an armed conflict between the United States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S. annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory despite the 1836 Texas Revolution."*

Mexican?American War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Fishlore

Israel is the size of New Jersey with a population the size of New York City's.  Having earned the enmity of most of the world, the Jewish State now hangs by the thread of the USA's $4,000,000 per diem stipend. The Zionist hope of an integrated Middle East state has been smashed beyond repair. Israel today exists as a nuclear-tipped garrison of the United States Empire. The situation is neither stable nor viable.


----------



## Peterf

georgephillip said:


> Peterf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too late. And they don't get a say in the matter anyway.
> 
> 
> Ummmm...
> 
> The Persians are governed by a medieval, dogmatic, martyrdom-encouraging, fundamentalist, radical, jihadi-sympathizing, theocratic autocracy, run by religious clerics?
> 
> The Israelis are governed by a modern secular government with no territorial or crusading ambitions beyond that of reclaiming all of their old homeland?
> 
> Just a guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO!   Not a guess!   More like the sober unvarnished truth.   One might add that Israel is completely democratic and that there is no example of a democracy starting an aggressive war against its neighbours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is far from completely democratic, and its prime protector, aka, the greatest purveyor of violence  in the world, has been waging aggressive war against its neighbors (and others) since its inception.
> 
> "*The MexicanAmerican War, also known as the Mexican War, the U.S.Mexican War, the Invasion of Mexico, the U.S. Intervention, 'The War of Irrelevants', or the United States War Against Mexico, was an armed conflict between the United States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S. annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory despite the 1836 Texas Revolution."*
> 
> Mexican?American War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


By a very wide margin Israel is the most democratic country in the Near East.    (For some strange reason the accurate expression 'Near East' got changed into the worse 'Middle East' several decades ago. I blame the Americans, whose knowledge of geography is, shall we say, less than complete.)

Oh - you omitted the war of 1812.   You know the one when the Yanks sneakilly tried to grab Canada while the gallant Britons were busy fighting the tyrant Napoleon.  Now that I think about it is surprising that the USA didn't have a second try in 1939 or 1940, when the Brits had their hands full fighting Hitler.


----------



## Hossfly

aris2chat said:


> Most aid is in the form of load guarantees.  The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
> Loans get paid back with interest.
> Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value.  Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
> Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid.  US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.


The anti-Semites try to make everyone believe the US pays Israel to fight the puny "Palestinians". What a laugh!


----------



## Hossfly

Fishlore said:


> Israel is the size of New Jersey with a population the size of New York City's.  Having earned the enmity of most of the world, the Jewish State now hangs by the thread of the USA's $4,000,000 per diem stipend. The Zionist hope of an integrated Middle East state has been smashed beyond repair. Israel today exists as a nuclear-tipped garrison of the United States Empire. The situation is neither stable nor viable.


If you sincerely believe that hosscrap then the world is safe for another generation.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really, Peterf, _et al,_

I have to agree more with our friend "Peterf" in the classical sense.



Billo_Really said:


> Peterf said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, very far from the biggest military power.  Just the best.
> 
> 
> 
> They're the only nuclear power in the ME, that's pretty big!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

"IF" the State of Israel had a deployable tactical nuclear weapon _(they neither confirm nor deny - not being a signatory to the NNPT)_, it would be a very expensive weapons system to maintain; and a system they cannot use under normal circumstances.  From a practical standpoint, they are in the same box as the Iranians or the Pakistani.  Any use, or attempt to use such a weapons system would have to be in the very final death throes of their existence; their last action of a dying cultural society.  It would spell the end of any nation that would use such a weapons system; not just Israel, but any nation.

It is very hard to say what the tactical objective would be for such a deployment, but the best defense against such a deployment is a strong and agile conventional defense program with NO nuclear capability.  Should any nation with a nuclear capability, use it against a non-nuclear capable opponent, such an action would have to be so justified internationally as to grant tacit approval.  Otherwise, it would invite total destruction.  It is what mitigates the Iranian threat of such a capability.  If they were ever thought to be preparing to use such a weapon system, they would be preemptively burnt to the ground; back to the 17th Century.

No, the best advantage Israel has --- is maintaining the superiority of their conventional force.

The advantage to Israel maintaining a Nuclear capacity is the insurance against its total destruction.  Should the Arab League or any similar Persian Alliance, somehow gain the upper hand and the fate of Israel where to be sealed, it is not quite known what the Israeli targeting strategy would be, if any at all _(non-deployable - unthinkable)_.  My guess would be all the major cities of the primary aggressor, all key infrastructure, and any shrines of such significants as to defy reconstitution - would be surely considered; then aligned and unaligned cultural and strategic allies.  But the scope and nature of the Israeli culture is such, that they might not deploy such a system at all; even in a last ditch effort.  Israel does not exhibit the same genocidal tendencies as do the Arab cultural opponents.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## aris2chat

The theory was last man standing will make sure no one gets Israel.  It would have back then triggered a doomsday scenario not just in the middle east but the world.
Iran wanted to put the world back on the clock.
It was safer letting the region think Israel might make the region uninhabitable, and a cloud that would have spread across most of the muslim world.  Now the world takes it for granted that Israel has a nuclear arsenal though never tested.  The brains and the science we know they have.
Lets hope we never find out for sure.


----------



## American_Jihad

georgephillip said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will be the last one standing, you on the other hand got smoked...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Here is the only reason why Israel is still standing:*
> 
> "Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date,
> the United States has provided Israel $118 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in
> bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance,
> although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance. Strong congressional
> support for Israel has resulted in Israel receiving benefits not available to any other countries; for
> example, Israel can use some U.S. military assistance both for research and development in the
> United States and for military purchases from Israeli manufacturers. In addition, U.S. assistance
> earmarked for Israel is generally delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year, while most other
> recipients normally receive aid in installments. In addition to receiving U.S. State Department-
> administered foreign assistance, Israel also receives funds from annual defense appropriations
> bills for rocket and missile defense programs. Israel pursues some of those programs jointly with
> the United States. "
> 
> http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
> 
> "For FY2014, the Administration is requesting $3.1 billion in FMF to Israel and $15 million in
> Migration and Refugee Assistance. The Missile Defense Agencys FY2014 request for Israeli
> Cooperative Programs is $95.782 million, including $52.607 million for Arrow III, $32.512
> million for Davids Sling, and $10.663 million for Arrow II. The Department of Defense also is
> requesting $220 million in FY2014 Procurement, Defense-wide funds for Iron Dome."
Click to expand...


If and when iran gets nukes all the money in the world won't stop them from nuking Israel and here's why. If they nuke Israel they will kill more arabs/etc then Israelis and they don't care because their rabid...


----------



## Billo_Really

RoccoR said:


> I have to agree more with our friend "Peterf" in the classical sense.


Hey, if you want to agree with an extreme right-wing lunatic, go ahead.



RoccoR said:


> "IF" the State of Israel had a deployable tactical nuclear weapon _(they neither confirm nor deny - not being a signatory to the NNPT)_, it would be a very expensive weapons system to maintain; and a system they cannot use under normal circumstances.


That's just conjecture.  What they should do, is sign the NNPT and allow UN inspections of their nuclear sites.




RoccoR said:


> From a practical standpoint, they are in the same box as the Iranians or the Pakistani.


Bullshit!  First off, take Pakistan out of the equation.  If they decide to nuke anyone, it will be India.  Secondly, Iran doesn't have nukes.  Nor are they trying to build nukes.  Both US and Israeli intel have confirmed this.



> _*Israels intelligence service Mossad has acknowledged, just like their American counterparts, there is no proof Tehran is carrying out a nuclear weapons program, a source in US intelligence told the New York Times. **An unnamed former senior US intelligence official told the paper Mossad does not disagree with the US on the [Iranian] weapons program.
> 
> The consensus among US spy agencies remains that *Iran stopped its nuclear weapons research several years ago*.
> 
> US spy agencies have been searching around for years, trying to find proof Iran is developing a nuclear warhead and missiles to deliver it. For all of their troubles, this is what theyve found: *the program was shut down way back in 2003*. _


All your hypotheticals don't change the fact that you cannot put a nuclear state in the same box as a non-nuclear one.



RoccoR said:


> Any use, or attempt to use such a weapons system would have to be in the very final death throes of their existence; their last action of a dying cultural society.  It would spell the end of any nation that would use such a weapons system; not just Israel, but any nation.


Israel has shown they'd use a nuke as a first strike.  They started the last 6 wars they've been in and have shown time and time again, their plans to pursue military aggression against their neighbors and all perceived enemies, whether they be real or not.


RoccoR said:


> It is very hard to say what the tactical objective would be for such a deployment, but the best defense against such a deployment is a strong and agile conventional defense program with NO nuclear capability.  Should any nation with a nuclear capability, use it against a non-nuclear capable opponent, such an action would have to be so justified internationally as to grant tacit approval.  Otherwise, it would invite total destruction.  It is what mitigates the Iranian threat of such a capability.  If they were ever thought to be preparing to use such a weapon system, they would be preemptively burnt to the ground; back to the 17th Century.


There's no sense in talking about that, because Iran hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years.


RoccoR said:


> No, the best advantage Israel has --- is maintaining the superiority of their conventional force.


The best advantage for Israel, is to stop causing trouble and starting wars.


RoccoR said:


> The advantage to Israel maintaining a Nuclear capacity is the insurance against its total destruction.  Should the Arab League or any similar Persian Alliance, somehow gain the upper hand and the fate of Israel where to be sealed, it is not quite known what the Israeli targeting strategy would be, if any at all _(non-deployable - unthinkable)_.  My guess would be all the major cities of the primary aggressor, all key infrastructure, and any shrines of such significants as to defy reconstitution - would be surely considered; then aligned and unaligned cultural and strategic allies.  But the scope and nature of the Israeli culture is such, that they might not deploy such a system at all; even in a last ditch effort.  Israel does not exhibit the same genocidal tendencies as do the Arab cultural opponents.


Oh bullshit! Tell that to the arabs killed at Deir Yassin.

Israel doesn't give a damn about human rights and are practicing slow genocide against the residents of Gaza.  If they thought they could kill off all the Pals and have the world not notice, they would.


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> If and when iran gets nukes all the money in the world won't stop them from nuking Israel and here's why. If they nuke Israel they will kill more arabs/etc then Israelis and they don't care because their rabid...


You can't even prove they're building any!


----------



## American_Jihad

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> If and when iran gets nukes all the money in the world won't stop them from nuking Israel and here's why. If they nuke Israel they will kill more arabs/etc then Israelis and they don't care because their rabid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't even prove they're building any!
Click to expand...


Likewise mr. bill...


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> Likewise mr. bill...


Not likewise, *AJ.*

Check out the link 2 posts ago.


----------



## docmauser1

Billo_Really said:


> Hey, if you want to agree with an extreme right-wing lunatic, go ahead. That's just conjecture.  What they should do, is sign the NNPT and allow UN inspections of their nuclear sites. Bullshit!  First off, take Pakistan out of the equation.  If they decide to nuke anyone, it will be India.  Secondly, Iran doesn't have nukes.  Nor are they trying to build nukes.  Both US and Israeli intel have confirmed this. All your hypotheticals don't change the fact that you cannot put a nuclear state in the same box as a non-nuclear one. Israel has shown they'd use a nuke as a first strike.  They started the last 6 wars they've been in and have shown time and time again, their plans to pursue military aggression against their neighbors and all perceived enemies, whether they be real or not. There's no sense in talking about that, because Iran hasn't attacked anyone in over 200 years. The best advantage for Israel, is to stop causing trouble and starting wars. Oh bullshit! Tell that to the arabs killed at Deir Yassin. Israel doesn't give a damn about human rights and are practicing slow genocide against the residents of Gaza.  If they thought they could kill off all the Pals and have the world not notice, they would.


Drivel.


----------



## Billo_Really

docmauser1 said:


> Drivel.


Why respond when it's obvious you have no argument?


----------



## Hollie

I don't see Israel having any need to use a nuke except, as noted, for retaliation in the face of a &#8220;doomsday&#8221; scenario.

Their conventional forces, tactics and planning have proven superior to any Arab (combined Arab) aggression.


----------



## Kondor3

Fishlore said:


> "_Israel is the size of New Jersey with a population the size of New York City's_..."


And every time that some Muslim country's political leadership holds internal talks about attacking Israel, the General Staff of that country's armed forces start to pee their pants. Impressive.



> "..._Having earned the enmity of most of the world_..."


Insisting upon surviving - when much of the rest of world would have rather you not even declared Statehood and would rather you remain scattered across the world rather than carving out your own country from your presently-occupied spiritual homeland - tends to do that.



> "..._the Jewish State now hangs by the thread of the USA's $4,000,000 per diem stipend_..."







Israel?United States relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$3.15 billion per year; of an annual military budget of $50.6 billion...

Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$3.15 billion US aid / $50.6 billion defense budget = 0.0622...

US military aid = 6.2% of the total Israeli defense budget...

Hardly 'hanging by the thread' of US financial aid.

And our own arms industries get 74% of that $3.15 billion back, as new arms purchases; an indirect subsidy for our own manufacturers; which means American jobs.

Heck, until recently, Egypt - a Muslim-dominated country, historically hostile to Israel, got $1.6 billion annually in military aid - only cut-off when their military overthrew Morsi...

We give large-scale aid to a lot of countries...






How big is US foreign aid? | Consultants Mind


Israel is merely one of our favorites.



> "..._The Zionist hope of an integrated Middle East state has been smashed beyond repair_..."


What is an 'integrated Middle East state' in this context?

How has that been smashed beyond repair?

If there is any Failed State or Smashed State to be had in that region, it is 'Rump Palestine' - a state-wannabe that never was, and, most likely, never will be.



> "..._Israel today exists as a nuclear-tipped garrison of the United States Empire_..."


No. Just a good friend, strong ally, and a tripwire for The West against a reawakening and re-militarizing Islam.



> "..._The situation is neither stable_..."


That land controls the eastern side of the only land-bridge between Asia and Africa.

As such, it has been fought-over since the first nations and empires and armies appeared in that part of the world, thousands of years ago.

Rather like having your living room rest in the middle lanes of a busy multi-lane highway.

That land has never been 'stable', when one pulls back and takes the macro-level view of its history and long line of combatants and conquerors.



> "..._nor viable_."


Doesn't matter.

The Jews of the world have no place else to go, as a polity.

They are obliged to try.

And they may confound all the doomsayers who - so far - have been about as wrong as wrong can be, in predicting her decline and demise.

Good friends are helpful, but the Jews of Israel are largely self-reliant in most areas; learning from history that they must ultimately rely upon themselves.

And they are well along the road to attaining military self-sufficiency in most areas of weapons development and manufacture, as well - just in case.


----------



## Iceman

American_Jihad said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is only here to stay as long as America keeps the printing presses going. Once that stops, the teeming hordes of Arabs will overrun them. I will laugh from afar, sipping a gin and tonic and laughing at the irony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel will be the last one standing, you on the other hand got smoked...
Click to expand...


By who?


----------



## Iceman

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Better to give Israel military aid (most of which has to be purchased from the US arms industry) than to give the Islamic regimes who would wipe out Israel in an instant and then spread Islam far and wide.



I thought Israel could take care of itself? So your saying without the aid the "Islamic regimes" would wipe out Israel?


----------



## Iceman

Hossfly said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most aid is in the form of load guarantees.  The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
> Loans get paid back with interest.
> Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value.  Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
> Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid.  US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.
> 
> 
> 
> The anti-Semites try to make everyone believe the US pays Israel to fight the puny "Palestinians". What a laugh!
Click to expand...


Yea, there is no fight versus the Palestinians, it is a slaughter. 

Oi vey, ve need ze vhite phospherous against ze Palestinians! Ve cant' have a second Holocau$t!


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Iceman said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most aid is in the form of load guarantees.  The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
> Loans get paid back with interest.
> Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value.  Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
> Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid.  US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.
> 
> 
> 
> The anti-Semites try to make everyone believe the US pays Israel to fight the puny "Palestinians". What a laugh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, there is no fight versus the Palestinians, it is a slaughter.
> 
> Oi vey, ve need ze vhite phospherous against ze Palestinians! Ve cant' have a second Holocau$t!
Click to expand...


Pathetic little troll.


----------



## Fishlore

To much of the world, Israel is a rogue nuclear state in illegal occupation of the West Bank and with a human rights record down at the bottom of the list. It doesn't matter whether you or I agree with that characterization, but it does explain why, were it not for the US vetoes in the Security Council, Israel would  have long since abandoned its annexation of _lebensraum_ in Judea and Samaria and been placed under IAEA sanctions much as Iran and North Korea.

The Jewish State is in a pickle and it cannot shoot its way out. The USA has only limited ability to sustain the Israeli state in the face of world opinion. No state utterly dependent on another for its survival can be considered truly sovereign. Even American domestic politics can not sustain support for Israel as it becomes clearer and clearer that Israel has abandoned the two-state solution to which it is formally committed and is interested in annexation.


----------



## Kondor3

Iceman said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most aid is in the form of load guarantees.  The US gets increase income due to taxes on sales and services for the money spent in the US with no layout.
> Loans get paid back with interest.
> Military aid gets paid for at cost to US not expected retail value.  Design changes by Israel have profited the US and the manufacturers.
> Israeli aid is a fraction of total US global aid.  US gives far more to arabs states, most of which is in the form of grants.
> 
> 
> 
> The anti-Semites try to make everyone believe the US pays Israel to fight the puny "Palestinians". What a laugh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yea, there is no fight versus the Palestinians, it is a slaughter.
> 
> Oi vey, ve need ze vhite phospherous against ze Palestinians! Ve cant' have a second Holocau$t!
Click to expand...

Arab Ass-Kissing classes are down the hall, make a left, out the door, third minaret past the outhouse...


----------



## georgephillip

Fishlore said:


> To much of the world, Israel is a rogue nuclear state in illegal occupation of the West Bank and with a human rights record down at the bottom of the list. It doesn't matter whether you or I agree with that characterization, but it does explain why, were it not for the US vetoes in the Security Council, Israel would  have long since abandoned its annexation of _lebensraum_ in Judea and Samaria and been placed under IAEA sanctions much as Iran and North Korea.
> 
> The Jewish State is in a pickle and it cannot shoot its way out. The USA has only limited ability to sustain the Israeli state in the face of world opinion. No state utterly dependent on another for its survival can be considered truly sovereign. Even American domestic politics can not sustain support for Israel as it becomes clearer and clearer that Israel has abandoned the two-state solution to which it is formally committed and is interested in annexation.


Should Israel annex all the land between the River and the sea, what chance do you see of a democratic one-state solution?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> Should Israel annex all the land between the River and the sea, what chance do you see of a democratic one-state solution?


Establishing of the office of the emigrant assistance and palistanians can dance it from there, of course. That's what the international community should've been busy about yesterday.


----------



## georgephillip

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should Israel annex all the land between the River and the sea, what chance do you see of a democratic one-state solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Establishing of the office of the emigrant assistance and palistanians can dance it from there, of course. That's what the international community should've been busy about yesterday.
Click to expand...

How long are Jews going to depend on the international community to clean up their messes? How many Palestinians can dance their way into you humble abode, Drivel?


----------



## docmauser1

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should Israel annex all the land between the River and the sea, what chance do you see of a democratic one-state solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Establishing of the office of the emigrant assistance and palistanians can dance it from there, of course. That's what the international community should've been busy about yesterday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How long are Jews going to depend on the international community to clean up their messes?
Click to expand...

As long as the international community doesn't seem like getting a life and a job! LOL


georgephillip said:


> How many Palestinians can dance their way into you humble abode, Drivel?


Non sequitur drivel.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Boycotting the Israel Boycotters*

December 24, 2013 by Daniel Greenfield 






...

The sooner action begins; the less likely it will be that any major university will cross that red line. If it does cross that red line then the legislation will be burdened by protests from students and faculty.

While BDS activists target companies and individuals, they have had their biggest successes with non-profits. And non-profits are vulnerable because they are parasitically dependent on outside money.

Until the government acts, individuals who are asked to donate to colleges should reply that they will only donate if it is established that their money will not in any way go to fund members or groups that conduct a boycott of Israel. Enough such requests will lead to an internal boycott within academic institutions forcing them to carefully source funds to and segregate funds around boycotting groups.

Even a public conversation about such measures will encourage the remaining 81 schools that are institutional members, such as Rutgers, Brigham Young University, the University of Texas and NYU, to join the schools such as Penn State that have done the right thing by pulling out.

...

The United States is not Nazi Germany even if some academics talk like it is and act like it is. Those academics who try to play Goebbels may have a nasty surprise waiting for them when Americans reject them and everything that they stand for.

Boycotting the Israel Boycotters | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Jihadists Flock to Israels Borders*

December 31, 2013 by P. David Hornik






...

In light of that, it is hard to look forward to Secretary of State John Kerrys next visit to Israel, set for later this week. Kerrys Israeli-Palestinian peace process now centers on the Jordan Valleywhich can only mean undermining the current stability and replacing it with something worse.

...

With firing incidents from Lebanon, Gaza, and Syria and Secretary Kerry once again on his way, it is hard not to feel beleaguered. The United States has an old habit of strengthening Israel with one hand and weakening and threatening it with the other. Under Obama and Kerry, its become an obsession.

Jihadists Flock to Israel?s Borders | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Ariel Sharon: Larger Than Life* 

January 13, 2014 by Caroline Glick 






Ariel Sharon, who died Saturday at age 85, after being suspended comatose, between life and death for the past eight years, was the final Israeli prime minister from the generation that fought in the 1948 War of Independence.

And as with others of his generation, the growth and development of the country were reflected in his career.

Sharon was a dazzling military commander. He was one of the original authors of Israel&#8217;s trailblazing counter-terror strategies. The large battles against regular armies that he commanded in the 1956 Suez campaign, the 1967 Six Day War, and the 1973 Yom Kippur War are still taught in military academies around the world for their tactical brilliance.

Sharon was a risk-taker. The most prominent shared quality of his military battles and his political ones was that they were always over high stakes. As a general, Sharon&#8217;s gutsiness paid off in spades more often than not. As a politician, the results were less impressive.

...

Sharon was one of the warmest, most engaging political leaders Israel has ever seen. He had an infectious sense of humor, a true love of life, of Israel, and of Israelis that made even his greatest Israeli critics like him.

Sharon was larger than life. His accomplishments and failures were similarly outsized. And while much of what happened to him, particularly at the hands of the media, reflects the larger predicament of all of Israel, there can be no doubt that Ariel Sharon was one of a kind.

Ariel Sharon: Larger Than Life | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Fishlore

Israel, not surprisingly, has more Jews in its population than any other country: six million. The USA is right behind Israel with five and one-half million. Number three is France with fewer than half a million, one-tenth of the US number. For practical purposes, all the Jews in the world live in just two countries: Israel and the USA. The total combined Jewish population of Israel, the USA and France is quite a bit smaller than the population of Cairo, Egypt.

But population numbers don't tell the story.  American Jews are a bit over 1% of the population and are vastly more wealthy and influential than the Jews of Israel. The power of AIPAC and other Jewish political lobbyist organizations to influence United States policy is greater than the diplomatic influence of any other nation.

Israel is a dependency of the United States. US military aid alone is four million dollars a day, and the total of economic subsidies and support is far greater than that. Israel has become a garrison state of the USA yet despite its dependency, Israel holds the whip hand in its partnership with the world's only superpower, which is also Israel's only ally and friend. 

Israel's diplomatic, military and economic situation is indeed precarious, especially when one considers that Israel is about the size of the state of New Jersey and, by the admission of its own security analysts, could not survive even a single successful nuclear attack.

The original focus and mission of the Zionist founders of Israel has been abandoned under the rising political dominance of the haredim ultra-Orthodox and recent Russian immigrants and replaced by a militaristic expansionism which seeks Eretz Israel through the gradual ingestion of the West Bank.

Israel's quest for lebensraum through American military backing has cost the Jewish state the support of virtually every member state of the UN except the USA. Freed from the need to placate world opinion, the Likud party of Netanyahu has grown giddy with power and now even repudiates its long-standing commitment to a two-state solution to the Palestinian issue, supremely confident that its power over the US government is such that Washington will not dare to object.

Is Israel here to stay? Israel hangs by a single thread. There have been Crusader states in the region before. Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted for two centuries before dissolving into the surrounding Islamic sea. The Arab world is confident that this last vestige of 20th century British imperialism will not survive that long. "the Jews have the watches," they say, "but we've got the time.


----------



## MHunterB

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should Israel annex all the land between the River and the sea, what chance do you see of a democratic one-state solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Establishing of the office of the emigrant assistance and palistanians can dance it from there, of course. That's what the international community should've been busy about yesterday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How long are Jews going to depend on the international community to clean up their messes? How many Palestinians can dance their way into you humble abode, Drivel?
Click to expand...


What's CowardGeorge whining about now?


----------



## toastman

Fishlore said:


> Israel, not surprisingly, has more Jews in its population than any other country: six million. The USA is right behind Israel with five and one-half million. Number three is France with fewer than half a million, one-tenth of the US number. For practical purposes, all the Jews in the world live in just two countries: Israel and the USA. The total combined Jewish population of Israel, the USA and France is quite a bit smaller than the population of Cairo, Egypt.
> 
> But population numbers don't tell the story.  American Jews are a bit over 1% of the population and are vastly more wealthy and influential than the Jews of Israel. The power of AIPAC and other Jewish political lobbyist organizations to influence United States policy is greater than the diplomatic influence of any other nation.
> 
> Israel is a dependency of the United States. US military aid alone is four million dollars a day, and the total of economic subsidies and support is far greater than that. Israel has become a garrison state of the USA yet despite its dependency, Israel holds the whip hand in its partnership with the world's only superpower, which is also Israel's only ally and friend.
> 
> Israel's diplomatic, military and economic situation is indeed precarious, especially when one considers that Israel is about the size of the state of New Jersey and, by the admission of its own security analysts, could not survive even a single successful nuclear attack.
> 
> The original focus and mission of the Zionist founders of Israel has been abandoned under the rising political dominance of the haredim ultra-Orthodox and recent Russian immigrants and replaced by a militaristic expansionism which seeks Eretz Israel through the gradual ingestion of the West Bank.
> 
> Israel's quest for lebensraum through American military backing has cost the Jewish state the support of virtually every member state of the UN except the USA. Freed from the need to placate world opinion, the Likud party of Netanyahu has grown giddy with power and now even repudiates its long-standing commitment to a two-state solution to the Palestinian issue, supremely confident that its power over the US government is such that Washington will not dare to object.
> 
> Is Israel here to stay? Israel hangs by a single thread. There have been Crusader states in the region before. Baldwin's Kingdom of Jerusalem lasted for two centuries before dissolving into the surrounding Islamic sea. The Arab world is confident that this last vestige of 20th century British imperialism will not survive that long. "the Jews have the watches," they say, "but we've got the time.



"Israel hangs by a single thread"

LOL well you can keep telling yourself that drivel, but it sure as hell ain't true. If there is a country in the ME that is hanging on by a single thread, it sure as hell isn't Israel.


----------



## Ronin

It&#8217;s stated this person comes from an influential Zionist family.  (Perhaps someone living in Israel can validate that). He served in the Israeli army, his father was a general in the Israeli army, and his sister was murdered by   Palestinian suicide bombers.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ]An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel - YouTube[/ame]


In my opinion he stands as a prime example that history is and will always be selective interpretation.
Israel is here to stay.  The question is how far into the future this becomes a global conflict.  I think Israel needs a new PR approach.  Stop using mythology as a moral reason and just call it conquest.   It&#8217;s obvious the West Bank settlements will not stop.  In time the clashes will get worse.  So why not just stop beating around the bush.  The side with the better weapons is who is truly right, for now.  In the end none of it will matter.


----------



## Sally

Ronin said:


> Its stated this person comes from an influential Zionist family.  (Perhaps someone living in Israel can validate that). He served in the Israeli army, his father was a general in the Israeli army, and his sister was murdered by   Palestinian suicide bombers.
> 
> An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel - YouTube
> 
> 
> In my opinion he stands as a prime example that history is and will always be selective interpretation.
> Israel is here to stay.  The question is how far into the future this becomes a global conflict.  I think Israel needs a new PR approach.  Stop using mythology as a moral reason and just call it conquest.   Its obvious the West Bank settlements will not stop.  In time the clashes will get worse.  So why not just stop beating around the bush.  The side with the better weapons is who is truly right, for now.  In the end none of it will matter.



But, Ronin, the readers have seen this numerous times from ant-Israel people like you.  We all know that there are Leftist Jews around who would roll over for the Arabs and don't care if Israel is destroyed.  Why don't you tell us what the Hamas and Palestine Authority charters say about destroying Israel.  This is actually more important than what some Leftist Jews think.  I have a great idea.  Since Ronin is bring up something that the viewers have seen before, he can also bring up that thing about what a Hamas' leader's son has to say about Hamas.  I think the son is now living here in the U.S.  He probably wanted to get away from the barbaric Hamas people.


----------



## Ronin

Sally said:


> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> It&#8217;s stated this person comes from an influential Zionist family.  (Perhaps someone living in Israel can validate that). He served in the Israeli army, his father was a general in the Israeli army, and his sister was murdered by   Palestinian suicide bombers.
> 
> An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel - YouTube
> 
> 
> In my opinion he stands as a prime example that history is and will always be selective interpretation.
> Israel is here to stay.  The question is how far into the future this becomes a global conflict.  I think Israel needs a new PR approach.  Stop using mythology as a moral reason and just call it conquest.   It&#8217;s obvious the West Bank settlements will not stop.  In time the clashes will get worse.  So why not just stop beating around the bush.  The side with the better weapons is who is truly right, for now.  In the end none of it will matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, Ronin, the readers have seen this numerous times from ant-Israel people like you.  We all know that there are Leftist Jews around who would roll over for the Arabs and don't care if Israel is destroyed.  Why don't you tell us what the Hamas and Palestine Authority charters say about destroying Israel.  This is actually more important than what some Leftist Jews think.  I have a great idea.  Since Ronin is bring up something that the viewers have seen before, he can also bring up that thing about what a Hamas' leader's son has to say about Hamas.  I think the son is now living here in the U.S.  He probably wanted to get away from the barbaric Hamas people.
Click to expand...


Mosab Hassan Yousef states he became an informant for the IDF to save lives on both sides.  He did so under the agreement the targets would not be assassinated.

Miko Peled provides a perspective from both his parents as well as his own experience from the period when Palestinians were being driven from their homes.  Which is what I was inferring to with historical selective interpretation. 

That is a massive generalization.  So I don&#8217;t know exactly what your point is.  There are as many Arabs that are against Palestine as there are Jews against Israel?  I have been reading the posts on this matter in this forum for a while without posting.  The readers have seen it *all *numerous times.  Aside from a current event which may pop up, it&#8217;s essentially the same argument, different threads.

There is enough historical record with the last 100 years to clearly spell out what has occurred.  Whatever point a person has taken after researching for themselves is historical interpretation.

I was agreeing with the op Israel is here to stay.  I also added my opinion that there is its nothing righteous but another chapter of world history in conquest.  Israel is correct in what it does because it has superior weapons.  Stating Hamas is barbaric ignores basic human nature and is another example of selective interpretation.  

You already know &#8220;there are leftist Jews who will roll over for Arabs&#8221; so I don&#8217;t really need to go into what Hamas thinks of Israel.

There is enough barbaric actions on both sides to go around.


----------



## Sally

Ronin said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its stated this person comes from an influential Zionist family.  (Perhaps someone living in Israel can validate that). He served in the Israeli army, his father was a general in the Israeli army, and his sister was murdered by   Palestinian suicide bombers.
> 
> An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel - YouTube
> 
> 
> In my opinion he stands as a prime example that history is and will always be selective interpretation.
> Israel is here to stay.  The question is how far into the future this becomes a global conflict.  I think Israel needs a new PR approach.  Stop using mythology as a moral reason and just call it conquest.   Its obvious the West Bank settlements will not stop.  In time the clashes will get worse.  So why not just stop beating around the bush.  The side with the better weapons is who is truly right, for now.  In the end none of it will matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, Ronin, the readers have seen this numerous times from ant-Israel people like you.  We all know that there are Leftist Jews around who would roll over for the Arabs and don't care if Israel is destroyed.  Why don't you tell us what the Hamas and Palestine Authority charters say about destroying Israel.  This is actually more important than what some Leftist Jews think.  I have a great idea.  Since Ronin is bring up something that the viewers have seen before, he can also bring up that thing about what a Hamas' leader's son has to say about Hamas.  I think the son is now living here in the U.S.  He probably wanted to get away from the barbaric Hamas people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mosab Hassan Yousef states he became an informant for the IDF to save lives on both sides.  He did so under the agreement the targets would not be assassinated.
> 
> Miko Peled provides a perspective from both his parents as well as his own experience from the period when Palestinians were being driven from their homes.  Which is what I was inferring to with historical selective interpretation.
> 
> That is a massive generalization.  So I dont know exactly what your point is.  There are as many Arabs that are against Palestine as there are Jews against Israel?  I have been reading the posts on this matter in this forum for a while without posting.  The readers have seen it *all *numerous times.  Aside from a current event which may pop up, its essentially the same argument, different threads.
> 
> There is enough historical record with the last 100 years to clearly spell out what has occurred.  Whatever point a person has taken after researching for themselves is historical interpretation.
> 
> I was agreeing with the op Israel is here to stay.  I also added my opinion that there is its nothing righteous but another chapter of world history in conquest.  Israel is correct in what it does because it has superior weapons.  Stating Hamas is barbaric ignores basic human nature and is another example of selective interpretation.
> 
> You already know there are leftist Jews who will roll over for Arabs so I dont really need to go into what Hamas thinks of Israel.
> 
> There is enough barbaric actions on both sides to go around.
Click to expand...


I am not using any mythology.  I am taking the word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago who said that they saw very few Arabs, mainly Bedouins.  I am also taking the word of Winston Churchill and the British officials who were actually in the area and who stated that the Aeabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them.  Now you and I don't even have to be any government official to see the population changes in this country as more and more people come from poor countries for jobs.  Close your eyes to barbarism if you want to, but we have read enough to see what Hamas does and it wouldn't be called civilized behavior.


----------



## Ronin

Sally said:


> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, Ronin, the readers have seen this numerous times from ant-Israel people like you.  We all know that there are Leftist Jews around who would roll over for the Arabs and don't care if Israel is destroyed.  Why don't you tell us what the Hamas and Palestine Authority charters say about destroying Israel.  This is actually more important than what some Leftist Jews think.  I have a great idea.  Since Ronin is bring up something that the viewers have seen before, he can also bring up that thing about what a Hamas' leader's son has to say about Hamas.  I think the son is now living here in the U.S.  He probably wanted to get away from the barbaric Hamas people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mosab Hassan Yousef states he became an informant for the IDF to save lives on both sides.  He did so under the agreement the targets would not be assassinated.
> 
> Miko Peled provides a perspective from both his parents as well as his own experience from the period when Palestinians were being driven from their homes.  Which is what I was inferring to with historical selective interpretation.
> 
> That is a massive generalization.  So I don&#8217;t know exactly what your point is.  There are as many Arabs that are against Palestine as there are Jews against Israel?  I have been reading the posts on this matter in this forum for a while without posting.  The readers have seen it *all *numerous times.  Aside from a current event which may pop up, it&#8217;s essentially the same argument, different threads.
> 
> There is enough historical record with the last 100 years to clearly spell out what has occurred.  Whatever point a person has taken after researching for themselves is historical interpretation.
> 
> I was agreeing with the op Israel is here to stay.  I also added my opinion that there is its nothing righteous but another chapter of world history in conquest.  Israel is correct in what it does because it has superior weapons.  Stating Hamas is barbaric ignores basic human nature and is another example of selective interpretation.
> 
> You already know &#8220;there are leftist Jews who will roll over for Arabs&#8221; so I don&#8217;t really need to go into what Hamas thinks of Israel.
> 
> There is enough barbaric actions on both sides to go around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not using any mythology.  I am taking the word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago who said that they saw very few Arabs, mainly Bedouins.  I am also taking the word of Winston Churchill and the British officials who were actually in the area and who stated that the Aeabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them.  Now you and I don't even have to be any government official to see the population changes in this country as more and more people come from poor countries for jobs.  Close your eyes to barbarism if you want to, but we have read enough to see what Hamas does and it wouldn't be called civilized behavior.
Click to expand...


I referenced Mythology to the idea of "This is mine because God said so".

You mention Winston Churchill who was no doubt a Zionist supporter, but also British officials?  Have you viewed the census taken by the British in that time block?  It shows a complete opposite of what your stating.

Word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago.  

In my opinion (I say that because I wont presume to stand on a soap box and lecture history because it is interpretive)  your verbal demeanor goes beyond being fallacious.


----------



## Sally

Ronin said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mosab Hassan Yousef states he became an informant for the IDF to save lives on both sides.  He did so under the agreement the targets would not be assassinated.
> 
> Miko Peled provides a perspective from both his parents as well as his own experience from the period when Palestinians were being driven from their homes.  Which is what I was inferring to with historical selective interpretation.
> 
> That is a massive generalization.  So I dont know exactly what your point is.  There are as many Arabs that are against Palestine as there are Jews against Israel?  I have been reading the posts on this matter in this forum for a while without posting.  The readers have seen it *all *numerous times.  Aside from a current event which may pop up, its essentially the same argument, different threads.
> 
> There is enough historical record with the last 100 years to clearly spell out what has occurred.  Whatever point a person has taken after researching for themselves is historical interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> I was agreeing with the op Israel is here to stay.  I also added my opinion that there is its nothing righteous but another chapter of world history in conquest.  Israel is correct in what it does because it has superior weapons.  Stating Hamas is barbaric ignores basic human nature and is another example of selective interpretation.
> 
> You already know there are leftist Jews who will roll over for Arabs so I dont really need to go into what Hamas thinks of Israel.
> 
> There is enough barbaric actions on both sides to go around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not using any mythology.  I am taking the word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago who said that they saw very few Arabs, mainly Bedouins.  I am also taking the word of Winston Churchill and the British officials who were actually in the area and who stated that the Aeabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them.  Now you and I don't even have to be any government official to see the population changes in this country as more and more people come from poor countries for jobs.  Close your eyes to barbarism if you want to, but we have read enough to see what Hamas does and it wouldn't be called civilized behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I referenced Mythology to the idea of "This is mine because God said so".
> 
> You mention Winston Churchill who was no doubt a Zionist supporter, but also British officials?  Have you viewed the census taken by the British in that time block?  It shows a complete opposite of what your stating.
> 
> Word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago.
> 
> In my opinion (I say that because I wont presume to stand on a soap box and lecture history because it is interpretive)  your verbal demeanor goes beyond being fallacious.
Click to expand...


We all have our own opinions and are free to express them.  If you don't believe what the British officials said in their reports, you are of course free to view the arhives in Britain.  No doubt this is where  you will find them.  And, of course, if you could locate the Egyptian official who said not too long ago that the Gazans should come back to Egypt, you can ask him why he would make a statement like that.  However, the bottom line here, even if you want to ignore it, is that the Arabs do not want to see any Jewish government anyplace in the Middle East.  They want to govern it all.


----------



## Hossfly

Ronin said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mosab Hassan Yousef states he became an informant for the IDF to save lives on both sides.  He did so under the agreement the targets would not be assassinated.
> 
> Miko Peled provides a perspective from both his parents as well as his own experience from the period when Palestinians were being driven from their homes.  Which is what I was inferring to with historical selective interpretation.
> 
> That is a massive generalization.  So I don&#8217;t know exactly what your point is.  There are as many Arabs that are against Palestine as there are Jews against Israel?  I have been reading the posts on this matter in this forum for a while without posting.  The readers have seen it *all *numerous times.  Aside from a current event which may pop up, it&#8217;s essentially the same argument, different threads.
> 
> There is enough historical record with the last 100 years to clearly spell out what has occurred.  Whatever point a person has taken after researching for themselves is historical interpretation.
> 
> I was agreeing with the op Israel is here to stay.  I also added my opinion that there is its nothing righteous but another chapter of world history in conquest.  Israel is correct in what it does because it has superior weapons.  Stating Hamas is barbaric ignores basic human nature and is another example of selective interpretation.
> 
> You already know &#8220;there are leftist Jews who will roll over for Arabs&#8221; so I don&#8217;t really need to go into what Hamas thinks of Israel.
> 
> There is enough barbaric actions on both sides to go around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not using any mythology.  I am taking the word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago who said that they saw very few Arabs, mainly Bedouins.  I am also taking the word of Winston Churchill and the British officials who were actually in the area and who stated that the Aeabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them.  Now you and I don't even have to be any government official to see the population changes in this country as more and more people come from poor countries for jobs.  Close your eyes to barbarism if you want to, but we have read enough to see what Hamas does and it wouldn't be called civilized behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I referenced Mythology to the idea of "This is mine because God said so".
> 
> You mention Winston Churchill who was no doubt a Zionist supporter, but also British officials?  Have you viewed the census taken by the British in that time block?  It shows a complete opposite of what your stating.
> 
> Word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago.
> 
> In my opinion (I say that because I wont presume to stand on a soap box and lecture history because it is interpretive)  your verbal demeanor goes beyond being fallacious.
Click to expand...

You've heard the song that starts, "This land is mine, God gave this land to me..............? Thats a fact.


----------



## Ronin

Hossfly said:


> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not using any mythology.  I am taking the word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago who said that they saw very few Arabs, mainly Bedouins.  I am also taking the word of Winston Churchill and the British officials who were actually in the area and who stated that the Aeabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them.  Now you and I don't even have to be any government official to see the population changes in this country as more and more people come from poor countries for jobs.  Close your eyes to barbarism if you want to, but we have read enough to see what Hamas does and it wouldn't be called civilized behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I referenced Mythology to the idea of "This is mine because God said so".
> 
> You mention Winston Churchill who was no doubt a Zionist supporter, but also British officials?  Have you viewed the census taken by the British in that time block?  It shows a complete opposite of what your stating.
> 
> Word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago.
> 
> In my opinion (I say that because I wont presume to stand on a soap box and lecture history because it is interpretive)  your verbal demeanor goes beyond being fallacious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've heard the song that starts, "This land is mine, God gave this land to me..............? Thats a fact.
Click to expand...


No I had not heard that song before now.  It illustrates my point with clarity.  Thank you.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY]This Land is Mine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MHunterB

Was that 'video' supposed to be some kind of a 'point'?


----------



## Ronin

MHunterB said:


> Was that 'video' supposed to be some kind of a 'point'?



Here my original post:

Israel is here to stay. The question is how far into the future this becomes a global conflict. I think Israel needs a new PR approach. Stop using mythology as a moral reason and just call it conquest. It&#8217;s obvious the West Bank settlements will not stop. In time the clashes will get worse. So why not just stop beating around the bush. The side with the better weapons is who is truly right, for now. In the end none of it will matter. 

So yes, it was a point.


----------



## Kondor3

All the more reason to expel the Palestinians sooner rather than later, and to move Israelis into the vacuum. Time to get it the hell over with.

Might as well get it the hell over with, send the Palestinians packing across the borders to Jordan and Egypt and Lebanon, and thereby eliminate the internal threat.

External threats are a lot easier to deal with, as opposed to internal ones, because dealing with external threats calls _Legitimate Warfare_ status into play, rather than policing and restoring order in a so-called occupied zone.

Dealing with threats across the border, it's a simple and joyous 'Weapons Free' situation.

Not to mention that most of the Palestinians will be so happy to have escaped their 65-year-old refugee shitholes, that they'll quickly begin to assimilate into their new surroundings, and any guerrilla-in-exile will fizzle-out after a generation or two, as people build new lives and begin enjoying life free from the daily risks and tensions that Hamas, Fatah, etc., subject them to presently.

Eventually becoming happy Egyptian, Jordanian and Lebanese citizens, and finally able to put their 65-year-old nightmare behind them; especially if the Israelis pay them off handsomely and help them with the logistics and administrative detail of moving.

That would be an expensive proposition (paying them off) but is likely to lead to reasonably contented refugees/immigrants. Small price for securing the remaining fragments of Eretz Yisrael still under Muslim control.

If the Muslims are ejected from Gaza (_and, quite possibly, the West Bank_), in a couple of decades, their movement will sputter to a stop like a car caught on the road with an empty gas tank.

All brave words and protestations to the contrary notwiithstanding...


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> All the more reason to expel the Palestinians sooner rather than later, and to move Israelis into the vacuum. Time to get it the hell over with.


Is that your_................FINAL..................SOLUTION?_


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> You've heard the song that starts, "This land is mine, God gave this land to me..............? Thats a fact.


You need to realize the possibility exists, that God doesn't like you!


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the more reason to expel the Palestinians sooner rather than later, and to move Israelis into the vacuum. Time to get it the hell over with.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your_................FINAL..................SOLUTION?_
Click to expand...

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

There is no long-term compromising with the Muslim-Arab Palestinians, so, the alternatives are...

1. the Israelis pack up and scatter for another 2000 years

2. the Israelis commit slow suicide by agreeing to a two-state solution

3. the Israelis commit slow suicide by re-absorbing them back into a one-state solution

4. the Israelis emulate the Muslims of the region who kicked out their Jews, and return the favor by kicking out their own Muslims

The Europeans (_and their offshoot civilizations in North America and Oceania_) have a long tradition and history of expelling Jews, so, collectively, they'll understand Jews expelling Muslims.

But, if and when that comes, at least the Palestinians will still be alive at the end of the sequence...

Which is more than the Jews can say if they lose, as expressed in the blood-oaths that Muslim-Arabs of the region have been spouting for decades; namely, to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.

If it comes, the Israeli-effected 'Final Solution' is likely to be far more humane and merciful than any Arab 'Final Solution'.

Besides... given the Muslim-Arab Palestinian background and connections to actual Naziism and Facism, the Arab's verion of the 'Final Soluton' would come far closer to the Nazi implications than would the Israeli one.

The Jews of Israel have a narrow (a decade or two, at best) window of opportunity to clear Gaza and the West Bank, without their nearby Muslim-Arab neighbor-states interfering to any practical and effective extent.

The Grand Muslim Expulsion is far more likely to occur in the next 10-20 years than it ever was in the past, or is likey to be, in the next century or two beyond that mark.

If they're gonna do it, they'll do it 'now' (within the next 10 to 20 years), while they have excellent prospects for success.

Ultimately, this is a life-and-death, winner-take-all strugle, and 'fair' has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Shaarona

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the more reason to expel the Palestinians sooner rather than later, and to move Israelis into the vacuum. Time to get it the hell over with.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your_................FINAL..................SOLUTION?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
> 
> There is no long-term compromising with the Muslim-Arab Palestinians, so, the alternatives are...
> 
> 1. the Israelis pack up and scatter for another 2000 years
> 
> 2. the Israelis commit slow suicide by agreeing to a two-state solution
> 
> 3. the Israelis commit slow suicide by re-absorbing them back into a one-state solution
> 
> 4. the Israelis emulate the Muslims of the region who kicked out their Jews, and return the favor by kicking out their own Muslims
> 
> The Europeans (_and their offshoot civilizations in North America and Oceania_) have a long tradition and history of expelling Jews, so, collectively, they'll understand Jews expelling Muslims.
> 
> But, if and when that comes, at least the Palestinians will still be alive at the end of the sequence...
> 
> Which is more than the Jews can say if they lose, as expressed in the blood-oaths that Muslim-Arabs of the region have been spouting for decades; namely, to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.
> 
> If it comes, the Israeli-effected 'Final Solution' is likely to be far more humane and merciful than any Arab 'Final Solution'.
> 
> Besides... given the Muslim-Arab Palestinian background and connections to actual Naziism and Facism, the Arab's verion of the 'Final Soluton' would come far closer to the Nazi implications than would the Israeli one.
> 
> The Jews of Israel have a narrow (a decade or two, at best) window of opportunity to clear Gaza and the West Bank, without their nearby Muslim-Arab neighbor-states interfering to any practical and effective extent.
> 
> The Grand Muslim Expulsion is far more likely to occur in the next 10-20 years than it ever was in the past, or is likey to be, in the next century or two beyond that mark.
> 
> If they're gonna do it, they'll do it 'now' (within the next 10 to 20 years), while they have excellent prospects for success.
Click to expand...


Chaim Weizman tried to forcibly expel the rest of the Arabs in 1950-51. He approached the US to pay for it.. He asked ARAMCO and Ibn Saud to take them in to build TAPLINE.

KSA was still very poor in those days.. and those jobs went to Saudis... although KSA did already employ some 250,000 Palestinians.. Christian and Muslim.

The European Jews went to Palestine seeking sanctuary and a new life.. Look at the outcome.... Its not something I would be proud of.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the more reason to expel the Palestinians sooner rather than later, and to move Israelis into the vacuum. Time to get it the hell over with.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your_................FINAL..................SOLUTION?_
Click to expand...



 My final solution is to pre-empt the peace process and make a declaration of intent that as of a certain date the state of Palestine will exist behind these affixed borders. And that any belligerence shown will be a clear breach of the UN charter so rendering Palestine to attack. let the U.N. pick the bones out of the unilateral declaration and see how far they get before they fall foul of their own charter. 

We all know your FINAL SOLUTION is the genocide of every Jew because you believe that your bad debts will die with them.


----------



## Phoenall

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your_................FINAL..................SOLUTION?_
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
> 
> There is no long-term compromising with the Muslim-Arab Palestinians, so, the alternatives are...
> 
> 1. the Israelis pack up and scatter for another 2000 years
> 
> 2. the Israelis commit slow suicide by agreeing to a two-state solution
> 
> 3. the Israelis commit slow suicide by re-absorbing them back into a one-state solution
> 
> 4. the Israelis emulate the Muslims of the region who kicked out their Jews, and return the favor by kicking out their own Muslims
> 
> The Europeans (_and their offshoot civilizations in North America and Oceania_) have a long tradition and history of expelling Jews, so, collectively, they'll understand Jews expelling Muslims.
> 
> But, if and when that comes, at least the Palestinians will still be alive at the end of the sequence...
> 
> Which is more than the Jews can say if they lose, as expressed in the blood-oaths that Muslim-Arabs of the region have been spouting for decades; namely, to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.
> 
> If it comes, the Israeli-effected 'Final Solution' is likely to be far more humane and merciful than any Arab 'Final Solution'.
> 
> Besides... given the Muslim-Arab Palestinian background and connections to actual Naziism and Facism, the Arab's verion of the 'Final Soluton' would come far closer to the Nazi implications than would the Israeli one.
> 
> The Jews of Israel have a narrow (a decade or two, at best) window of opportunity to clear Gaza and the West Bank, without their nearby Muslim-Arab neighbor-states interfering to any practical and effective extent.
> 
> The Grand Muslim Expulsion is far more likely to occur in the next 10-20 years than it ever was in the past, or is likey to be, in the next century or two beyond that mark.
> 
> If they're gonna do it, they'll do it 'now' (within the next 10 to 20 years), while they have excellent prospects for success.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Chaim Weizman tried to forcibly expel the rest of the Arabs in 1950-51. He approached the US to pay for it.. He asked ARAMCO and Ibn Saud to take them in to build TAPLINE.
> 
> KSA was still very poor in those days.. and those jobs went to Saudis... although KSA did already employ some 250,000 Palestinians.. Christian and Muslim.
> 
> The European Jews went to Palestine seeking sanctuary and a new life.. Look at the outcome.... Its not something I would be proud of.
Click to expand...




 Yet you are very proud of your brothers MASS MURDER of 3,000 unarmed and innocent Americans in the name of allah. Or your brothers MASS MURDER of 50,000 mainly women and children in the refugee camps of Jordan.


----------



## Shaarona

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the more reason to expel the Palestinians sooner rather than later, and to move Israelis into the vacuum. Time to get it the hell over with.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your_................FINAL..................SOLUTION?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My final solution is to pre-empt the peace process and make a declaration of intent that as of a certain date the state of Palestine will exist behind these affixed borders. And that any belligerence shown will be a clear breach of the UN charter so rendering Palestine to attack. let the U.N. pick the bones out of the unilateral declaration and see how far they get before they fall foul of their own charter.
> 
> We all know your FINAL SOLUTION is the genocide of every Jew because you believe that your bad debts will die with them.
Click to expand...


There is no land left for a Palestinian state..  The deal is sealed.. You will have to kill all of them.. along the lines of Hitler's plans.


----------



## MHunterB

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your_................FINAL..................SOLUTION?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My final solution is to pre-empt the peace process and make a declaration of intent that as of a certain date the state of Palestine will exist behind these affixed borders. And that any belligerence shown will be a clear breach of the UN charter so rendering Palestine to attack. let the U.N. pick the bones out of the unilateral declaration and see how far they get before they fall foul of their own charter.
> 
> We all know your FINAL SOLUTION is the genocide of every Jew because you believe that your bad debts will die with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no land left for a Palestinian state..  The deal is sealed.. You will have to kill all of them.. along the lines of Hitler's plans.
Click to expand...


You'd like to believe that, wouldn't you?  There is plenty of land - if the Pals had ever focused on actually trying to make something of the part of the Mandate set aside just for them.


----------



## Ronin

MHunterB said:


> You'd like to believe that, wouldn't you?  There is plenty of land - if the Pals had ever focused on actually trying to make something of the part of the Mandate set aside just for them.



Group A does not produce what is acceptable or to the standards of Group B.

Therefore Group B is entitled to what group A has.

One of the most commonly used inductive fallacies after God gave it to me.


----------



## Kondor3

Shaarona said:


> "..._There is no land left for a Palestinian state. The deal is sealed. You will have to kill all of them. along the lines of Hitler's plans._"


Nope. Just tell 'em to pack up their cars and buses and head for the border, with tanks on their ass to ensure compliance. Once they cross, they're somebody else's problem.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've heard the song that starts, "This land is mine, God gave this land to me..............? Thats a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to realize the possibility exists, that God doesn't like you!
Click to expand...

No way Jose.


----------



## Hossfly

Ronin said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I referenced Mythology to the idea of "This is mine because God said so".
> 
> You mention Winston Churchill who was no doubt a Zionist supporter, but also British officials?  Have you viewed the census taken by the British in that time block?  It shows a complete opposite of what your stating.
> 
> Word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago.
> 
> In my opinion (I say that because I wont presume to stand on a soap box and lecture history because it is interpretive)  your verbal demeanor goes beyond being fallacious.
> 
> 
> 
> You've heard the song that starts, "This land is mine, God gave this land to me..............? Thats a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I had not heard that song before now.  It illustrates my point with clarity.  Thank you.
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY]This Land is Mine - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...

Nice song. Who's the top cat now?


----------



## Ronin

The top cat is exactly what this video shows at the end.  

If your talking outside of that:  The sun.  It gives us life and could kill us at anytime.   If one does not respect its power it will burn or give  cancer in the long run.  We can count on it as we circle around it; since humans had a concept of what it was.  Most of all, we can actually see it.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Canada Takes Its Place at the Table*

January 24, 2014 by Caroline Glick






During a press conference with Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu on Tuesday, an Israeli reporter asked Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Is Canada paying a price for being so supportive of Israel? Is it possible to support Israel and still have ties to the Arab world?

...

In other words, what Harper acknowledged was that yes, Canada has lost contracts in some Arab countries due to its support for Israel. But by and large, it hasnt taken a serious hit.

The obvious follow-up question would have been to ask if Canada gains anything from its support for Israel that can compensate for the economic hits it takes for it.

The answer to that question is yes, Canada, and other countries that support Israel now, when such support is more notable than it was in the past, do gain significantly from their actions. This is true on two levels.

First, economically, Israel is in a far different position than it was 20 years ago. During Harpers visit, Canada and Israel updated their free trade agreement and signed a number of other agreements enhancing cooperation in multiple fields.

As Netanyahu said, I think that cooperation makes us both stronger and more prosperous and more secure countries.

...

Statements by Australian foreign ministers seldom receive global coverage. But Bishops did.

And the more outspoken Australia is in its support for Israel and rejection of the discourse of lies that characterizes the discussion of Israel, the more attention Australia will get and the more influential it will become on the world stage.

Like Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, Harpers decision to support Israel is rooted in his most deeply held convictions about right and wrong. There is nothing opportunistic about his policy.

It is therefore wonderful and empowering that by staying true to his beliefs, Harper is also transforming Canada into a force to be reckoned with on the global stage. Moreover, he is setting an example that will likely be followed by more and more countries, as the benefits of his embrace of Israel become widely recognized.


Canada Takes Its Place at the Table | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hossfly said:


> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've heard the song that starts, "This land is mine, God gave this land to me..............? Thats a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I had not heard that song before now.  It illustrates my point with clarity.  Thank you.
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY]This Land is Mine - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice song. Who's the top cat now?
Click to expand...


This cartoon is misleading.  The Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, etc. conquered Israel as part of their world conquests.  Jews conquered ONLY the tiny country of Israel because that particular land meant so much to them.


----------



## Bumberclyde

American_Jihad said:


> *Canada Takes Its Place at the Table*
> 
> January 24, 2014 by Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During a press conference with Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu on Tuesday, an Israeli reporter asked Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Is Canada paying a price for being so supportive of Israel? Is it possible to support Israel and still have ties to the Arab world?
> 
> ...
> 
> In other words, what Harper acknowledged was that yes, Canada has lost contracts in some Arab countries due to its support for Israel. But by and large, it hasnt taken a serious hit.
> 
> The obvious follow-up question would have been to ask if Canada gains anything from its support for Israel that can compensate for the economic hits it takes for it.
> 
> The answer to that question is yes, Canada, and other countries that support Israel now, when such support is more notable than it was in the past, do gain significantly from their actions. This is true on two levels.
> 
> First, economically, Israel is in a far different position than it was 20 years ago. During Harpers visit, Canada and Israel updated their free trade agreement and signed a number of other agreements enhancing cooperation in multiple fields.
> 
> As Netanyahu said, I think that cooperation makes us both stronger and more prosperous and more secure countries.
> 
> ...
> 
> Statements by Australian foreign ministers seldom receive global coverage. But Bishops did.
> 
> And the more outspoken Australia is in its support for Israel and rejection of the discourse of lies that characterizes the discussion of Israel, the more attention Australia will get and the more influential it will become on the world stage.
> 
> Like Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, Harpers decision to support Israel is rooted in his most deeply held convictions about right and wrong. There is nothing opportunistic about his policy.
> 
> It is therefore wonderful and empowering that by staying true to his beliefs, Harper is also transforming Canada into a force to be reckoned with on the global stage. Moreover, he is setting an example that will likely be followed by more and more countries, as the benefits of his embrace of Israel become widely recognized.
> 
> 
> Canada Takes Its Place at the Table | FrontPage Magazine



Stephen Harper wears a wig.


----------



## docmauser1

Ronin said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'd like to believe that, wouldn't you?  There is plenty of land - if the Pals had ever focused on actually trying to make something of the part of the Mandate set aside just for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Group A does not produce what is acceptable or to the standards of Group B. Therefore Group B is entitled to what group A has. One of the most commonly used inductive fallacies after God gave it to me.
Click to expand...

The capacitive allah-gave-it-to-me?


----------



## Ronin

docmauser1 said:


> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'd like to believe that, wouldn't you?  There is plenty of land - if the Pals had ever focused on actually trying to make something of the part of the Mandate set aside just for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Group A does not produce what is acceptable or to the standards of Group B. Therefore Group B is entitled to what group A has. One of the most commonly used inductive fallacies after God gave it to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The capacitive allah-gave-it-to-me?
Click to expand...


I don't know. Did God give you your current residence?


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

I wanted to let you all know about a little Canadian TV Show I watch, called:  Little Mosque on the Prairie.



Ronin said:


> I don't know. Did God give you your current residence?


*(COMMENT)*

It is absolutely hilarious and entertaining.  





It's a great program.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> I wanted to let you all know about a little Canadian TV Show I watch, called:  Little Mosque on the Prairie.
> 
> 
> 
> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. Did God give you your current residence?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is absolutely hilarious and entertaining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a great program.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I've seen it before. I enjoy it, it's quite unique


----------



## Synthaholic

_*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*_ 


Who gives a shit?


----------



## toastman

Synthaholic said:


> _*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*_
> 
> 
> Who gives a shit?



the fact that you actually took the time to open this thread, click on 'Post Reply' and then type your idiotic comment, shows that you actually care.


----------



## Synthaholic

toastman said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*_
> 
> 
> Who gives a shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the fact that you actually took the time to open this thread, click on 'Post Reply' and then type your idiotic comment, shows that you actually care.
Click to expand...

No, I'm mocking the OP.  Like anyone actually thinks Israel is going anywhere, but he wants to puff out his chest and make an obvious boast against an argument that no one is making.

It's called a strawman.


----------



## toastman

Synthaholic said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> _*Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*_
> 
> 
> Who gives a shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the fact that you actually took the time to open this thread, click on 'Post Reply' and then type your idiotic comment, shows that you actually care.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I'm mocking the OP.  Like anyone actually thinks Israel is going anywhere, but he wants to puff out his chest and make an obvious boast against an argument that no one is making.
> 
> It's called a strawman.
Click to expand...


"Allllllllllllrighty then"

         Jim Carey


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israels Economy Is Booming  Sorry, Boycotters & John Kerry*

February 7, 2014 by Ronn Torossian






Anti-Israel elements threatening boycott are encouraged by the pressure of American Secretary of State John Kerry who says for Israel there is an increasing de-legitimization campaign that has been building up. People are very sensitive to it, there is talk of boycott and other kinds of things. Are we all going to be better with all of that? Yet, they should be better aware of how vibrant Israels economy is, and that the days of the Jewish State wiltering because of threats is not viable in the year 2014.

Israel has continued economy growth  even during a worldwide economic meltdown  along with a conservative, well-regulated banking system.  Israel has approximately the same number of companies listed on NASDAQ as the next three countries combined, and as one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world is rightfully known as start-up nation. Israel is no banana republic, and remains one of the most thriving economies in the Middle East.

...

No matter what detractors of the Jewish people there have been throughout history, the Jewish people have survived.  The economy of Israel will continue to thrive and grow  and when there is a will, there is a way. Indeed, as my mother used to say: This too shall pass. 

Israel?s Economy Is Booming ? Sorry, Boycotters & John Kerry | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Ronin

Sally said:


> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not using any mythology.  I am taking the word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago who said that they saw very few Arabs, mainly Bedouins.  I am also taking the word of Winston Churchill and the British officials who were actually in the area and who stated that the Aeabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them.  Now you and I don't even have to be any government official to see the population changes in this country as more and more people come from poor countries for jobs.  Close your eyes to barbarism if you want to, but we have read enough to see what Hamas does and it wouldn't be called civilized behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I referenced Mythology to the idea of "This is mine because God said so".
> 
> You mention Winston Churchill who was no doubt a Zionist supporter, but also British officials?  Have you viewed the census taken by the British in that time block?  It shows a complete opposite of what your stating.
> 
> Word of travelers throughout the area years and years ago.
> 
> In my opinion (I say that because I wont presume to stand on a soap box and lecture history because it is interpretive)  your verbal demeanor goes beyond being fallacious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We all have our own opinions and are free to express them.  If you don't believe what the British officials said in their reports, you are of course free to view the arhives in Britain.  No doubt this is where  you will find them.
Click to expand...


No doubt.  Are you stating people should find them credible?


----------



## GISMYS

It is written that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave-wife and one from his freeborn wife.  23 There was nothing unusual about the birth of the slave-wife&#8217;s baby. But the baby of the freeborn wife was born only after God had especially promised he would come.GALATIONS 4:22-23 THE SON BY HIS FREEBORN WIFE WAS THE SON OF PROMISE FROM WHICH CAME THE NATION OF ISRAEL.


----------



## GISMYS

Abraham&#8217;s slave-wife Hagar represents Jerusalem, the mother-city of the Jews, the center of that system of trying to please God by trying to obey the Commandments; and the Jews, who try to follow that system, are her slave children.  26 But our mother-city is the heavenly Jerusalem, and she is not a slave to Jewish laws.

27 That is what Isaiah meant when he prophesied, &#8220;Now you can rejoice, O childless woman; you can shout with joy though you never before had a child. For I am going to give you many children&#8212;more children than the slave-wife has.&#8221;

28 You and I, dear brothers, are the children that God promised, just as Isaac was.  29 And so we who are born of the Holy Spirit are persecuted now by those who want us to keep the Jewish laws, just as Isaac, the child of promise, was persecuted by Ishmael, the slave-wife&#8217;s son.

30 But the Scriptures say that God told Abraham to send away the slave-wife and her son, for the slave-wife&#8217;s son could not inherit Abraham&#8217;s home and lands along with the free woman&#8217;s son.  31 Dear brothers, we are not slave children, obligated to the Jewish laws, but children of the free woman, acceptable to God because of our faith.
GALATIONS  4:25-31


----------



## Victory67

Israel is here to stay, but unless they stop violating international law they will find themselves with very few friends.  And they will have no one to blame but themselves.


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> It is written that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave-wife and one from his freeborn wife.  23 There was nothing unusual about the birth of the slave-wifes baby. But the baby of the freeborn wife was born only after God had especially promised he would come.GALATIONS 4:22-23 THE SON BY HIS FREEBORN WIFE WAS THE SON OF PROMISE FROM WHICH CAME THE NATION OF ISRAEL.



The free man, the owner of an enduring unbreakable will, by possessing this, also acquires his own standard of value: he looks out from himself at others and confers respect or withholds it. And just as it will be necessary for him to honour those like him, the strong and dependable (who are entitled to make promises), in other words, everyone who makes promises like a sovereign, seriously, rarely, and slowly, who is sparing with his trust, who honours another when he does trust, who gives his word as something reliable, because he knows he is strong enough to remain upright when opposed by misfortune, even when opposed by fate, so it will be necessary for him to keep his foot ready to kick the scrawny unreliable men, who make promises without being entitled to, and to hold his cane ready to punish the liar who breaks his word in the very moment it comes out of his mouth.


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> Israel is here to stay, but unless they stop violating international law they will find themselves with very few friends.  And they will have no one to blame but themselves.


Not to worry...

The Jews are used to that...

Having very few friends...

As a collective people...

Comes from getting burned by Gentiles again and again over the past 2000 years, I"m sure...

They're surrounded by hostiles...

They know this...

They know they're on their own, in the final analysis...

The way it's always been for them...

Although good friends - like America - can help, while they last...

This time around, they'll be strong enough and tough enough and bold enough to go it alone, and to survive as a people on their own recaptured soil, when the time comes...


----------



## Victory67

Kondor3 said:


> Not to worry...
> 
> The Jews are used to that...
> 
> Having very few friends...
> 
> As a collective people...
> 
> Comes from getting burned by Gentiles again and again over the past 2000 years, I"m sure...
> 
> They're surrounded by hostiles...
> 
> They know this...
> 
> They know they're on their own, in the final analysis...
> 
> The way it's always been for them...
> 
> Although good friends - like America - can help, while they last...
> 
> This time around, they'll be strong enough and tough enough and bold enough to go it alone, and to survive as a people on their own recaptured soil, when the time comes...



The difference is that up until 1948, the Jews were never responsible for bigotry against them.  Now they are engaging in actions that create honest and legitimate animosity and anger.

Israel cannot survive with the West boycotting them, which will happen if they reject a fair peace agreement with Palestine.


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> "..._The difference is that up until 1948, the Jews were never responsible for bigotry against them.  Now they are engaging in actions that create honest and legitimate animosity and anger_..."


Survival first, the nicities second.



> "..._Israel cannot survive with the West boycotting them, which will happen if they reject a fair peace agreement with Palestine._"


The West is not going to boycott Israel, to any appreciable extent, and certainly not for long. We don't do that to our friends and allies; especially not after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.


----------



## GISMYS

Kondor3 said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The difference is that up until 1948, the Jews were never responsible for bigotry against them.  Now they are engaging in actions that create honest and legitimate animosity and anger_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Survival first, the nicities second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel cannot survive with the West boycotting them, which will happen if they reject a fair peace agreement with Palestine._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The West is not going to boycott Israel, to any appreciable extent, and certainly not for long. We don't do that to our friends and allies; especially not after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.
Click to expand...


YES!!!ALL NATIONS WILL COME AGAINST TINY ISRAEL BUT GOD PROTECTS ISRAEL===God will judge all nations because all nations have gone against Israel.

Joel 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Amos 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Zechariah 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> YES!!!ALL NATIONS WILL COME AGAINST TINY ISRAEL BUT GOD PROTECTS ISRAEL===God will judge all nations because all nations have gone against Israel.
> 
> Joel 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
> 
> Amos 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
> 
> Zechariah 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
> 
> Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.



Fantasy passages from a fantasy book are irrelevant to this discussion


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> "..._Fantasy passages from a fantasy book are irrelevant to this discussion_"


Amen...


----------



## GISMYS

kondor3 said:


> victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._fantasy passages from a fantasy book are irrelevant to this discussion_"
> 
> 
> 
> amen...
Click to expand...


trying to deny the truth of god's word=blinded fools!!!and you???


----------



## ForeverYoung436

GISMYS said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The difference is that up until 1948, the Jews were never responsible for bigotry against them.  Now they are engaging in actions that create honest and legitimate animosity and anger_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Survival first, the nicities second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel cannot survive with the West boycotting them, which will happen if they reject a fair peace agreement with Palestine._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The West is not going to boycott Israel, to any appreciable extent, and certainly not for long. We don't do that to our friends and allies; especially not after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YES!!!ALL NATIONS WILL COME AGAINST TINY ISRAEL BUT GOD PROTECTS ISRAEL===God will judge all nations because all nations have gone against Israel.
> 
> Joel 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
> 
> Amos 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
> 
> Zechariah 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
> 
> Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Click to expand...


I think you are right, my Christian friend.  I'm Jewish and today was Shabbat (Sabbath), so I was studying some Tanach (Bible).  My hands just opened up the Book of Ezra, and I read how all the nations were trying to prevent the Jews of that time from building in Jerusalem.  Thousands of years have passed, but nothing has changed.


----------



## Victory67

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I think you are right, my Christian friend.  I'm Jewish and today was Shabbat (Sabbath), so I was studying some Tanach (Bible).  My hands just opened up the Book of Ezra, and I read how all the nations were trying to prevent the Jews of that time from building in Jerusalem.  Thousands of years have passed, but nothing has changed.



The world is right to criticize Israel's stealing of private property on Occupied Territory.


----------



## GISMYS

ForeverYoung436 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Survival first, the nicities second.
> 
> 
> The West is not going to boycott Israel, to any appreciable extent, and certainly not for long. We don't do that to our friends and allies; especially not after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES!!!ALL NATIONS WILL COME AGAINST TINY ISRAEL BUT GOD PROTECTS ISRAEL===God will judge all nations because all nations have gone against Israel.
> 
> Joel 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
> 
> Amos 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
> 
> Zechariah 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
> 
> Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you are right, my Christian friend.  I'm Jewish and today was Shabbat (Sabbath), so I was studying some Tanach (Bible).  My hands just opened up the Book of Ezra, and I read how all the nations were trying to prevent the Jews of that time from building in Jerusalem.  Thousands of years have passed, but nothing has changed.
Click to expand...


But now, the Lord God says, I will end the captivity of my people and have mercy upon them and restore their fortunes, for I am concerned about my reputation!  26 Their time of treachery and shame will all be in the past; they will be home again, in peace and safety in their own land, with no one bothering them or making them afraid.  27 I will bring them home from the lands of their enemiesand my glory shall be evident to all the nations when I do it. Through them I will vindicate my holiness before the nations.  28 Then my people will know I am the Lord their Godresponsible for sending them away to exile, and responsible for bringing them home. I will leave none of them remaining among the nations.  29 And I will never hide my face from them again, for I will pour out my Spirit upon them, says the Lord God.EZEKIEL 39:25-29


----------



## Kondor3

GISMYS said:


> kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._fantasy passages from a fantasy book are irrelevant to this discussion_"
> 
> 
> 
> amen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> trying to deny the truth of god's word=blinded fools!!!and you???
Click to expand...

Do not presume to get between me and the God of My Understanding... clear?


----------



## GISMYS

kondor3 said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> amen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trying to deny the truth of god's word=blinded fools!!!and you???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do not presume to get between me and the god of my understanding... Clear?
Click to expand...


understanding?????????????? Wisdom??????????????? Knowledge?????????? Dream on!!


----------



## Kondor3

GISMYS said:


> kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> trying to deny the truth of god's word=blinded fools!!!and you???
> 
> 
> 
> do not presume to get between me and the god of my understanding... Clear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> understanding?????????????? Wisdom??????????????? Knowledge?????????? Dream on!!
Click to expand...

Step away from the hooka, junior...


----------



## Phoenall

Victory67 said:


> Israel is here to stay, but unless they stop violating international law they will find themselves with very few friends.  And they will have no one to blame but themselves.





 Just what International laws have they violated, and think long and hard before you reply.


----------



## Phoenall

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to worry...
> 
> The Jews are used to that...
> 
> Having very few friends...
> 
> As a collective people...
> 
> Comes from getting burned by Gentiles again and again over the past 2000 years, I"m sure...
> 
> They're surrounded by hostiles...
> 
> They know this...
> 
> They know they're on their own, in the final analysis...
> 
> The way it's always been for them...
> 
> Although good friends - like America - can help, while they last...
> 
> This time around, they'll be strong enough and tough enough and bold enough to go it alone, and to survive as a people on their own recaptured soil, when the time comes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that up until 1948, the Jews were never responsible for bigotry against them.  Now they are engaging in actions that create honest and legitimate animosity and anger.
> 
> Israel cannot survive with the West boycotting them, which will happen if they reject a fair peace agreement with Palestine.
Click to expand...




 Tell you what take a long hard look at the allegations made against the Jewish people all over the world and see were they all start. Then ask why the war mongers are allowed to get away with starting all these libels and false accusations.

Now define what you mean by a fair peace agreement with Palestine ?    Is this fair for the Hostile muslim terrorists, fair for the Israelis or fair for all parties ?


----------



## Phoenall

Kondor3 said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The difference is that up until 1948, the Jews were never responsible for bigotry against them.  Now they are engaging in actions that create honest and legitimate animosity and anger_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Survival first, the nicities second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel cannot survive with the West boycotting them, which will happen if they reject a fair peace agreement with Palestine._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The West is not going to boycott Israel, to any appreciable extent, and certainly not for long. We don't do that to our friends and allies; especially not after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.
Click to expand...




And anyone that supports a boycott is showing they are JEW HATING ANTI SEMITICS, because it hits the Palestinians harder than it hits the Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

Victory67 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> YES!!!ALL NATIONS WILL COME AGAINST TINY ISRAEL BUT GOD PROTECTS ISRAEL===God will judge all nations because all nations have gone against Israel.
> 
> Joel 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
> 
> Amos 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
> 
> Zechariah 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
> 
> Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fantasy passages from a fantasy book are irrelevant to this discussion
Click to expand...




Yet you defend the fantasy passages from the Islamic fantasy book when you single Israel out for censure.


----------



## Phoenall

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are right, my Christian friend.  I'm Jewish and today was Shabbat (Sabbath), so I was studying some Tanach (Bible).  My hands just opened up the Book of Ezra, and I read how all the nations were trying to prevent the Jews of that time from building in Jerusalem.  Thousands of years have passed, but nothing has changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world is right to criticize Israel's stealing of private property on Occupied Territory.
Click to expand...




What private property would that be then, provide evidence that it is actually legally owned by the muslims and not by the Jews


----------



## Shaarona

Kondor3 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> do not presume to get between me and the god of my understanding... Clear?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> understanding?????????????? Wisdom??????????????? Knowledge?????????? Dream on!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Step away from the hooka, junior...
Click to expand...


You should know that you generally smoke dried apples in a hooka.


----------



## Phoenall

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> understanding?????????????? Wisdom??????????????? Knowledge?????????? Dream on!!
> 
> 
> 
> Step away from the hooka, junior...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should know that you generally smoke dried apples in a hooka.
Click to expand...




 As in horse apples or camel apples ?


----------



## Shaarona

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Step away from the hooka, junior...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should know that you generally smoke dried apples in a hooka.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As in horse apples or camel apples ?
Click to expand...


Apples as in fruit.. like they grow in the Golan Heights.


----------



## Kondor3

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> understanding?????????????? Wisdom??????????????? Knowledge?????????? Dream on!!
> 
> 
> 
> Step away from the hooka, junior...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should know that you generally smoke dried apples in a hooka.
Click to expand...

In its original geographical setting(s), I have no idea, and really don't much care...

As those devices have been used in The West since the 1960s, well...

It is understood - what is meant... hitting the drug-pipe too hard... as seems to be the case with our Bible-thumping colleague.


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "..._The difference is that up until 1948, the Jews were never responsible for bigotry against them.  Now they are engaging in actions that create honest and legitimate animosity and anger_..."
> 
> 
> 
> Survival first, the nicities second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "..._Israel cannot survive with the West boycotting them, which will happen if they reject a fair peace agreement with Palestine._"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The West is not going to boycott Israel, to any appreciable extent, and certainly not for long. We don't do that to our friends and allies; especially not after 9-11 and the London Tube bombings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YES!!!ALL NATIONS WILL COME AGAINST TINY ISRAEL BUT GOD PROTECTS ISRAEL===God will judge all nations because all nations have gone against Israel.
> 
> Joel 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
> 
> Amos 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
> 
> Zechariah 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
> 
> Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Click to expand...


The old theological problem of "Faith" and "Knowledge," or more plainly, of instinct and reasonthe question whether, in respect to the valuation of things, instinct deserves more authority than rationality, which wants to appreciate and act according to motives, according to a "Why," that is to say, in conformity to purpose and utilityit is always the old moral problem that first appeared and had divided men's minds long before Christianity. 

One man must set them right, and the reason ALSOone must follow the instincts, but at the same time persuade the reason to support them with good arguments." This was the real FALSENESS of that great and mysterious ironist; he brought his conscience up to the point that he was satisfied with a kind of self-outwitting: in fact, he perceived the irrationality in the moral judgment.More innocent in such matters, and without the craftiness of the plebeian, wished to prove to himself, at the expenditure of all his strengththe greatest strength a philosopher had ever expendedthat reason and instinct lead spontaneously to one goal, to the good, to "God".


----------



## MHunterB

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are right, my Christian friend.  I'm Jewish and today was Shabbat (Sabbath), so I was studying some Tanach (Bible).  My hands just opened up the Book of Ezra, and I read how all the nations were trying to prevent the Jews of that time from building in Jerusalem.  Thousands of years have passed, but nothing has changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world is right to criticize Israel's stealing of private property on Occupied Territory.
Click to expand...


Then the world was wrong to NOT criticize the stealing of privately owned property when it was done by the Arab League nations as part of their international ethnic cleansing conspiracy......  And whoever criticizes the Israeli actions as 'stealing of private property' has morally obligated themselves to criticize the actions of Jordan and other nations for the same behavior.  

And when the other nations' abuses are ignored - I feel free to ignore the 'criticism' as hypocrisy.


----------



## Victory67

MHunterB said:


> Then the world was wrong to NOT criticize the stealing of privately owned property when it was done by the Arab League nations as part of their international ethnic cleansing conspiracy......  And whoever criticizes the Israeli actions as 'stealing of private property' has morally obligated themselves to criticize the actions of Jordan and other nations for the same behavior.
> 
> And when the other nations' abuses are ignored - I feel free to ignore the 'criticism' as hypocrisy.



Jordan was almost kicked out of the Arab League for their illegal annexation of the West Bank.

If not for the votes of Iraq and Yemen they would have been expelled from the oganization.


----------



## GISMYS

mhunterb said:


> victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think you are right, my christian friend.  I'm jewish and today was shabbat (sabbath), so i was studying some tanach (bible).  My hands just opened up the book of ezra, and i read how all the nations were trying to prevent the jews of that time from building in jerusalem.  Thousands of years have passed, but nothing has changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the world is right to criticize israel's stealing of private property on occupied territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> then the world was wrong to not criticize the stealing of privately owned property when it was done by the arab league nations as part of their international ethnic cleansing conspiracy......  And whoever criticizes the israeli actions as 'stealing of private property' has morally obligated themselves to criticize the actions of jordan and other nations for the same behavior.
> 
> And when the other nations' abuses are ignored - i feel free to ignore the 'criticism' as hypocrisy.
Click to expand...


god owns the holyland and god gave the land to the jewish people for eternity!!! Best you get over it! Fast!


----------



## Victory67

Phoenall said:


> What private property would that be then, provide evidence that it is actually legally owned by the muslims and not by the Jews



Peace Now performed an exhaustive study on all settlements in the West Bank, using official data provided to them by the Israel Lands Authority.

They found that around 33% of all settlements land is in fact Arab private property.

This is the reason why in 1979 the Israeli Supreme Court deemed it illegal for Israel to confiscate Arab private property in the West Bank and use it for settlements, as they were fully aware that it violated the 4th Geneva Conventions regulations regarding the legal and proper use of confiscated private lands in Occupied Territory.


----------



## GISMYS

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> What private property would that be then, provide evidence that it is actually legally owned by the muslims and not by the Jews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace Now performed an exhaustive study on all settlements in the West Bank, using official data provided to them by the Israel Lands Authority.
> 
> They found that around 33% of all settlements land is in fact Arab private property.
> 
> This is the reason why in 1979 the Israeli Supreme Court deemed it illegal for Israel to confiscate Arab private property in the West Bank and use it for settlements, as they were fully aware that it violated the 4th Geneva Conventions regulations regarding the legal and proper use of confiscated private lands in Occupied Territory.
Click to expand...


AGAIN!!! God owns the Holyland and God gave the land to the Jewish people for eternity!!! Best you get over it! Fast!


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> AGAIN!!! God owns the Holyland and God gave the land to the Jewish people for eternity!!! Best you get over it! Fast!



3,000 year old fairy tales have no bearing whatsoever on this issue.

They are totally irrelevent and play no legal part in the discussion.


----------



## GISMYS

Victory67 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> AGAIN!!! God owns the Holyland and God gave the land to the Jewish people for eternity!!! Best you get over it! Fast!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3,000 year old fairy tales have no bearing whatsoever on this issue.
Click to expand...



Only a fool would say to himself, &#8220;There is no God.&#8221; And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin.PSALM 53:1    AND YOU????


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> Only a fool would say to himself, There is no God. And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin.PSALM 53:1    AND YOU????



I've had just about enough of your insults and trying to turn this into a religious discussion.


----------



## GISMYS

Victory67 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a fool would say to himself, There is no God. And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin.PSALM 53:1    AND YOU????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've had just about enough of your insults and trying to turn this into a religious discussion.
Click to expand...


YES!!!! GOD ALMIGHTY MAKES THE RULES,THIS UNIVERSE IS HIS CREATION!!!===YES!!!ALL NATIONS WILL COME AGAINST TINY ISRAEL BUT GOD PROTECTS ISRAEL===God will judge all nations because all nations have gone against Israel.

Joel 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Amos 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Zechariah 14:2  For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Matthew 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


----------



## Victory67

Israel is here to stay but they need to start respecting international law.


----------



## GISMYS

victory67 said:


> israel is here to stay but they need to start respecting international law.



god's laws are the laws israel need be concerned about!!! And they are!!!


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> god's laws are the laws israel need be concerned about!!! And they are!!!



So you believe Israel can spit upon international laws that they have committed to follow?

Yours appears to be the standard Israeli belief when backed into a wall by hard and conclusive facts.


----------



## GISMYS

Victory67 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> god's laws are the laws israel need be concerned about!!! And they are!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you believe Israel can spit upon international laws that they have committed to follow?
> 
> Yours appears to be the standard Israeli belief when backed into a wall by hard and conclusive facts.
Click to expand...


NOTHING NEW TODAY!!!!===  O God, dont sit idly by, silent and inactive when we pray. Answer us! Deliver us!
2 Dont you hear the tumult and commotion of your enemies? Dont you see what they are doing, these proud men who hate the Lord?  3 They are full of craftiness and plot against your people, laying plans to slay your precious ones.  4 Come, they say, and let us wipe out Israel as a nationwe will destroy the very memory of her existence.  5 This was their unanimous decision at their summit conferencethey signed a treaty to ally themselves against Almighty God
PSALM 83:1-5


----------



## Indeependent

Victory67 said:


> Israel is here to stay but they need to start respecting international law.



What get's more respect, International Law or murderers?
Lebanon is proof that the UN is useless when Islamos go nuts.
Wait, when do Islamos NOT go nuts?


----------



## Victory67

Indeependent said:


> What get's more respect, International Law or murderers?
> Lebanon is proof that the UN is useless when Islamos go nuts.
> Wait, when do Islamos NOT go nuts?



Neither Hamas nor Nezbollah are signatories to the 4th Geneva Conventions or the UN Charter.

Israel is.


----------



## Kondor3

Indeependent said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is here to stay but they need to start respecting international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What get's more respect, International Law or murderers? Lebanon is proof that the UN is useless when Islamos go nuts. Wait, when do Islamos NOT go nuts?
Click to expand...

The only reason *WHY* Israel is here to stay, is that they did not listen to the legions of people who demanded that they put the fine-points of international law above their own survival.

Had the Israelis listened to those voices, the Jews would have been fish-food at the bottom of the Med, back in 1948, or earlier.

The Israelis will continue to ignore voices that advocate for actions and plans that amount to suicide (slow or fast) for Israel, while doing what they can to remain compliant with various ethics and law, insofar as they can while staying focused on long-term survival and defensibility and welfare.

To be observant of international law, as a people and as a state, you must have a people and a state that are alive in the first place.

First things first.

Survival first... the nicities of the law second.


----------



## Indeependent

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> What get's more respect, International Law or murderers?
> Lebanon is proof that the UN is useless when Islamos go nuts.
> Wait, when do Islamos NOT go nuts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Hamas nor Nezbollah are signatories to the 4th Geneva Conventions or the UN Charter.
> 
> Israel is.
Click to expand...


Here's how reality works...
You make an agreements with one or more parties.
One or more of those parties can't drop the habit of trying to kill you.
You improvise.

Kapish?
Of course not!


----------



## Victory67

Kondor3 said:


> The only reason *WHY* Israel is here to stay, is that they did not listen to the legions of people who demanded that they put the fine-points of international law above their own survival.
> 
> Had the Israelis listened to those voices, the Jews would have been fish-food at the bottom of the Med, back in 1948, or earlier.
> 
> The Israelis will continue to ignore voices that advocate for actions and plans that amount to suicide (slow or fast) for Israel, while doing what they can to remain compliant with various ethics and law, insofar as they can while staying focused on long-term survival and defensibility and welfare.
> 
> To be observant of international law, as a people and as a state, you must have a people and a state that are alive in the first place.
> 
> First things first.
> 
> Survival first... the nicities of the law second.



Israel is welcome to ignore every international law they have committed to follow, and pick and choose which parts of those laws they will respect and which parts they will ignore.

But when they do such things they have no right to complain when the world judges them for such actions.  And they have no right to complain about the world not supporting them.

When they do they look like a spoiled dishonest politician who kisses babies while stealing their lolly pops.


----------



## GISMYS

victory67 said:


> kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the only reason *why* israel is here to stay, is that they did not listen to the legions of people who demanded that they put the fine-points of international law above their own survival.
> 
> Had the israelis listened to those voices, the jews would have been fish-food at the bottom of the med, back in 1948, or earlier.
> 
> The israelis will continue to ignore voices that advocate for actions and plans that amount to suicide (slow or fast) for israel, while doing what they can to remain compliant with various ethics and law, insofar as they can while staying focused on long-term survival and defensibility and welfare.
> 
> To be observant of international law, as a people and as a state, you must have a people and a state that are alive in the first place.
> 
> First things first.
> 
> Survival first... The nicities of the law second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> israel is welcome to ignore every international law they have committed to follow, and pick and choose which parts of those laws they will respect and which parts they will ignore.
> 
> But when they do such things they have no right to complain when the world judges them for such actions.  And they have no right to complain about the world not supporting them.
> 
> When they do they look like a spoiled dishonest politician who kisses babies while stealing their lolly pops.
Click to expand...


god says he is married to israel! Israel asnwers to god not man!!! Best you get over it=god makes the rules!!!


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason *WHY* Israel is here to stay, is that they did not listen to the legions of people who demanded that they put the fine-points of international law above their own survival.
> 
> Had the Israelis listened to those voices, the Jews would have been fish-food at the bottom of the Med, back in 1948, or earlier.
> 
> The Israelis will continue to ignore voices that advocate for actions and plans that amount to suicide (slow or fast) for Israel, while doing what they can to remain compliant with various ethics and law, insofar as they can while staying focused on long-term survival and defensibility and welfare.
> 
> To be observant of international law, as a people and as a state, you must have a people and a state that are alive in the first place.
> 
> First things first.
> 
> Survival first... the nicities of the law second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is welcome to ignore every international law they have committed to follow, and pick and choose which parts of those laws they will respect and which parts they will ignore.
> 
> But when they do such things they have no right to complain when the world judges them for such actions.  And they have no right to complain about the world not supporting them.
> 
> When they do they look like a spoiled dishonest politician who kisses babies while stealing their lolly pops.
Click to expand...

Survival first... the nicities of the law second... world opinion third (or worse).


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> god says he is married to israel! Israel asnwers to god not man!!! Best you get over it=god makes the rules!!!



Yes, its very clear that Israel cares little about international laws that they have sworn to follow.


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> god says he is married to israel! Israel asnwers to god not man!!! Best you get over it=god makes the rules!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, its very clear that Israel cares little about international laws that they have sworn to follow.
Click to expand...

Survival comes before international law...

If you have to violate (or bend) international law in order to survive... oh well.


----------



## Victory67

Kondor3 said:


> Survival comes before international law...
> 
> If you have to violate (or bend) international law in order to survive... oh well.



  We fully understand that Israel diregards international laws that they have sworn to uphold when it contravenes their nationalist/irredentalist interests.


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Survival comes before international law...
> 
> If you have to violate (or bend) international law in order to survive... oh well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We fully understand that Israel diregards international laws that they have sworn to uphold when it contravenes their nationalist/irredentalist interests.
Click to expand...

Good... now you only need to understand why Israel violates international law when their own long-term survival or best interests are at-stake, and you're all set. Well done.


----------



## Victory67

Kondor3 said:


> Good... now you only need to understand why Israel violates international law when their own long-term survival or best interests are at-stake, and you're all set. Well done.



Israel's violations of international laws that they are a signatory to have nothing to do with survival.  Its all about nationalism, irredentalism, and religious fundamentalism.


----------



## GISMYS

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good... now you only need to understand why Israel violates international law when their own long-term survival or best interests are at-stake, and you're all set. Well done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's violations of international laws that they are a signatory to have nothing to do with survival.  Its all about nationalism, irredentalism, and religious fundamentalism.
Click to expand...


WARNING!! DO NOT TRY TO DIVIDE THE LAND GOD GAVE TINY ISRAEL!!!== I restore the prosperity of Judah and Jerusalem, says the Lord,  2 I will gather the armies of the world into the Valley Where Jehovah Judges and punish them there for harming my people, for scattering my inheritance among the nations and dividing up my land. JOEL 3:2


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good... now you only need to understand why Israel violates international law when their own long-term survival or best interests are at-stake, and you're all set. Well done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's violations of international laws that they are a signatory to have nothing to do with survival.  Its all about nationalism, irredentalism, and religious fundamentalism.
Click to expand...

Well, I'll concede two of of three...

It is, indeed, about nationalism; completing the conquest of the soil of the Old Kingdom; they've been waiting for 2000 years to take back their home and they've just about completed the process.

It is, indeed, about taking back and setting land; necessary to both short-term and long-term survival; and they've just about completed the process; conquered land seized after they were pushed into the 1967 Six Day War and then kicked major Arab-Muslim ass (again); securing Jerusalem and the Golan; never to be surrendered again, by the looks of it.

But I'll leave the religious fundamentalism to the mad-dog Palestinians and their militant Muslim supporters, who teach their children that Allah will reward them in Paradise if they die while fighting against the Jews.


----------



## Victory67

Kondor3 said:


> Well, I'll concede two of of three...
> 
> It is, indeed, about nationalism; completing the conquest of the soil of the Old Kingdom; they've been waiting for 2000 years to take back their home and they've just about completed the process.
> 
> It is, indeed, about taking back and setting land; necessary to both short-term and long-term survival; and they've just about completed the process; conquered land seized after they were pushed into the 1967 Six Day War and then kicked major Arab-Muslim ass (again); securing Jerusalem and the Golan; never to be surrendered again, by the looks of it.
> 
> But I'll leave the religious fundamentalism to the mad-dog Palestinians and their militant Muslim supporters, who teach their children that Allah will reward them in Paradise if they die while fighting against the Jews.



No nation on Earth has the legal right to reconquer lands that may have been lost 2,000 years ago.  

Israel's theft of Arab private land in the West Bank has nothing to do with security or survival.  Its all about religious fundamentalism.


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'll concede two of of three...
> 
> It is, indeed, about nationalism; completing the conquest of the soil of the Old Kingdom; they've been waiting for 2000 years to take back their home and they've just about completed the process.
> 
> It is, indeed, about taking back and setting land; necessary to both short-term and long-term survival; and they've just about completed the process; conquered land seized after they were pushed into the 1967 Six Day War and then kicked major Arab-Muslim ass (again); securing Jerusalem and the Golan; never to be surrendered again, by the looks of it.
> 
> But I'll leave the religious fundamentalism to the mad-dog Palestinians and their militant Muslim supporters, who teach their children that Allah will reward them in Paradise if they die while fighting against the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No nation on Earth has the legal right to reconquer lands that may have been lost 2,000 years ago.
> 
> Israel's theft of Arab private land in the West Bank has nothing to do with security or survival.  Its all about religious fundamentalism.
Click to expand...

Well, that's a fine expression of personal opinion.

One that I happen to disagree with.

For reasons I've already outlined.

No point in rehashing what's already been hashed.

Thank you for  your time.


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good... now you only need to understand why Israel violates international law when their own long-term survival or best interests are at-stake, and you're all set. Well done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's violations of international laws that they are a signatory to have nothing to do with survival.  Its all about nationalism, irredentalism, and religious fundamentalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WARNING!! DO NOT TRY TO DIVIDE THE LAND GOD GAVE TINY ISRAEL!!!== I restore the prosperity of Judah and Jerusalem, says the Lord,  2 I will gather the armies of the world into the Valley Where Jehovah Judges and punish them there for harming my people, for scattering my inheritance among the nations and dividing up my land. JOEL 3:2
Click to expand...


Inasmuch as in all ages, as long as mankind has existed, there have also been human herds (family alliances, communities, tribes, peoples, states, churches), and always a great number who obey in proportion to the small number who commandin view, therefore, of the fact that obedience has been most practiced and fostered among mankind hitherto, one may reasonably suppose that, generally speaking, the need thereof is now innate in every one, as a kind of FORMAL CONSCIENCE which gives the command "Thou shalt unconditionally do something, unconditionally refrain from something", in short, "Thou shalt". 

This need tries to satisfy itself and to fill its form with a content, according to its strength, impatience, and eagerness, it at once seizes as an omnivorous appetite with little selection, and accepts whatever is shouted into its ear by all sorts of commandersparents, teachers, laws, class prejudices, or public opinion. The extraordinary limitation of human development, the hesitation, protractedness, frequent retrogression, and turning thereof, is attributable to the fact that the herd-instinct of obedience is transmitted best, and at the cost of the art of command. If one imagine this instinct increasing to its greatest extent, commanders and independent individuals will finally be lacking altogether, or they will suffer inwardly from a bad conscience, and will have to impose a deception on themselves in the first place in order to be able to command just as if they also were only obeying. 

They know no other way of protecting themselves from their bad conscience than by playing the role of executors of older and higher orders (of predecessors, of the constitution, of justice, of the law, or of God himself), or they even justify themselves by maxims from the current opinions of the herd, as "first servants of their people," or "instruments of the public weal".


----------



## GISMYS

What "brave" people hide their face with masks and have their women and children do their fighting????????? Not israel!!!


----------



## Victory67

Israel is here to stay but they will become significantly more isolated if they fail to accept a reasonable and fair two-state solution.


----------



## Kondor3

Victory67 said:


> Israel is here to stay but they will become significantly more isolated if they fail to accept a reasonable and fair two-state solution.


I'm sure they're prepared for that... the world will forget soon enough, as history measures time.


----------



## Victory67

Kondor3 said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is here to stay but they will become significantly more isolated if they fail to accept a reasonable and fair two-state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they're prepared for that... the world will forget soon enough, as history measures time.
Click to expand...


No doubt they already have plans to whine about Auschwitz, the Pogroms, the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Black Death, the Roman destruction of the Temple, the Babylonian Captivity, and Great Cesear's Ghost if more sanctions and boycotts do come about.

Israel will continue to exist but it won't be much of an existence if they don't start doing the right thing.


----------



## GISMYS

victory67 said:


> kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> israel is here to stay but they will become significantly more isolated if they fail to accept a reasonable and fair two-state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm sure they're prepared for that... The world will forget soon enough, as history measures time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no doubt they already have plans to whine about auschwitz, the pogroms, the inquisition, the crusades, the black death, the roman destruction of the temple, the babylonian captivity, and great cesear's ghost if more sanctions and boycotts do come about.
> 
> Israel will continue to exist but it won't be much of an existence if they don't start doing the right thing.
Click to expand...


no worries!!! God protects tiny israer and israel is eternathe future home of jesus on earth!!!


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> no worries!!! God protects tiny israer and israel is eternathe future home of jesus on earth!!!



Silly Biblical fantasies have nothing to do with this discussion.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Judea and Samaria Are Israel*

February 10, 2014 by Ronn Torossian







Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) belong to Israel.  These areas are Jewish areas of the State of Israel. Period. While John Kerry and others pressure Israel to return these so-called disputed territories, the reality is that the conflict in the Middle East is about the fact that the Arabs cannot accept a Jewish state.  (And even if Israel did return these territories, there wouldnt be peace  for the Arabs want to use peace to destroy Israel piece by piece.) 

The world must understand that our people are called Jews because we come from Judea. The fact remains that these territories are an integral part of the State of Israel, and have always been connected to the Jewish people.

Ten great quotes affirming that this region belongs to Israel:

...

Judea and Samaria Are Israel | FrontPage Magazine



http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/232672-koran-says-land-belongs-to-israel.html


...


----------



## Victory67

American_Jihad said:


> Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) belong to Israel.  These areas are Jewish areas of the State of Israel. Period.



Israel has not annexed most of the West Bank.  That means they are not part of the State of Israel even under Israeli law.  Israeli civilian law doesn't even apply to the Jewish settlements in the West Bank.


----------



## Kondor3

Mere detail.

Give 'em time.

They'll fix the oversight.


----------



## GISMYS

Isaiah 14 
14 But the Lord will have mercy on the Israelis; they are still his special ones. He will bring them back to settle once again in the land of Israel. And many nationalities will come and join them there and be their loyal allies.  2 The nations of the world will help them to return, and those coming to live in their land will serve them. Those enslaving Israel will be enslavedIsrael shall rule her enemies!


----------



## GISMYS

12 Look, see the armies thundering toward Gods land.  13 But though they roar like breakers rolling upon a beach, God will silence them. They will flee, scattered like chaff by the wind, like whirling dust before a storm.  14 In the evening Israel waits in terror, but by dawn her enemies are dead. This is the just reward of those who plunder and destroy the people of God. ISAIAH 17:12


----------



## ForeverYoung436

GISMYS said:


> 12 Look, see the armies thundering toward Gods land.  13 But though they roar like breakers rolling upon a beach, God will silence them. They will flee, scattered like chaff by the wind, like whirling dust before a storm.  14 In the evening Israel waits in terror, but by dawn her enemies are dead. This is the just reward of those who plunder and destroy the people of God. ISAIAH 17:12



Amen.


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> 12 Look, see the armies thundering toward Gods land.  13 But though they roar like breakers rolling upon a beach, God will silence them. They will flee, scattered like chaff by the wind, like whirling dust before a storm.  14 In the evening Israel waits in terror, but by dawn her enemies are dead. This is the just reward of those who plunder and destroy the people of God. ISAIAH 17:12



Thanks for reminding us of the danger in mixing religion with politics.

Israel's survival depends on such a relationship not being maintained.


----------



## GISMYS

GOD SAYS==The sons of anti-Semites will come and bow before you! They will kiss your feet! They will call Jerusalem The City of the Lord and The Glorious Mountain of the Holy One of Israel.

15 Though once despised and hated and rebuffed by all, you will be beautiful forever, a joy for all the generations of the world, for I will make you so.  16 Powerful kings and mighty nations shall provide you with the choicest of their goods to satisfy your every need, and you will know at last and really understand that I, the Lord, am your Savior and Redeemer, the Mighty One of Israel.  17 I will exchange your brass for gold, your iron for silver, your wood for brass, your stones for iron. Peace and righteousness shall be your taskmasters!  18 Violence will disappear out of your landall war will end. Your walls will be Salvation and your gates Praise.

19 No longer will you need the sun or moon to give you light, for the Lord your God will be your everlasting light, and he will be your glory.  20 Your sun shall never set; the moon shall not go downfor the Lord will be your everlasting light; your days of mourning all will end.  21 All your people will be good. They will possess their land forever, for I will plant them there with my own hands; this will bring me glory.  22 The smallest family shall multiply into a clan; the tiny group shall be a mighty nation. I, the Lord, will bring it all to pass when it is time.
ISAIAH 60:14-22


----------



## montelatici

"The sons of anti-Semites will come and bow before you! They will kiss your feet! They will call Jerusalem &#8220;The City of the Lord&#8221; and &#8220;The Glorious Mountain of the Holy One of Israel.&#8221;

Do you have a transcript in the original language?


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> "The sons of anti-Semites will come and bow before you! They will kiss your feet! They will call Jerusalem The City of the Lord and The Glorious Mountain of the Holy One of Israel.
> 
> Do you have a transcript in the original language?



 The banim also of them that oppress thee shall come unto thee in submission; and all they that despised thee shall prostrate themselves down at the soles of thy raglayim; and they shall call thee, The Ir of Hashem, Tziyon of Kadosh Yisroel. ISAIAH 60:14


----------



## ForeverYoung436

GISMYS said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The sons of anti-Semites will come and bow before you! They will kiss your feet! They will call Jerusalem The City of the Lord and The Glorious Mountain of the Holy One of Israel.
> 
> Do you have a transcript in the original language?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The banim also of them that oppress thee shall come unto thee in submission; and all they that despised thee shall prostrate themselves down at the soles of thy raglayim; and they shall call thee, The Ir of Hashem, Tziyon of Kadosh Yisroel. ISAIAH 60:14
Click to expand...


May that day come soon.


----------



## GISMYS

foreveryoung436 said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "the sons of anti-semites will come and bow before you! They will kiss your feet! They will call jerusalem the city of the lord and the glorious mountain of the holy one of israel.
> 
> do you have a transcript in the original language?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the banim also of them that oppress thee shall come unto thee in submission; and all they that despised thee shall prostrate themselves down at the soles of thy raglayim; and they shall call thee, the ir of hashem, tziyon of kadosh yisroel. Isaiah 60:14
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> may that day come soon.
Click to expand...


oh!! It will!!! God's word says so!!!


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> the banim also of them that oppress thee shall come unto thee in submission; and all they that despised thee shall prostrate themselves down at the soles of thy raglayim; and they shall call thee, the ir of hashem, tziyon of kadosh yisroel. Isaiah 60:14
> 
> 
> 
> 
> may that day come soon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh!! It will!!! God's word says so!!!
Click to expand...


Throughout the longest period of human history&#8212;one calls it the prehistoric period&#8212;the value or non-value of an action was inferred from its CONSEQUENCES; the action in itself was not taken into consideration, any more than its origin; but , where the distinction or disgrace of a child redounds to its parents, the retro-operating power of success or failure was what induced men to think well or ill of an action. Let us call this period the PRE-MORAL period of mankind; the imperative, "Know thyself!" was then still unknown.

&#8212;In the last ten thousand years, on the other hand, on certain large portions of the earth, one has gradually got so far, that one no longer lets the consequences of an action, but its origin, decide with regard to its worth: a great achievement as a whole, an important refinement of vision and of criterion, the unconscious effect of the supremacy of aristocratic values and of the belief in "origin," the mark of a period which may be designated in the narrower sense as the MORAL one: the first attempt at self-knowledge is thereby made. I

nstead of the consequences, the origin&#8212;what an inversion of perspective! And assuredly an inversion effected only after long struggle and wavering! To be sure, an ominous new superstition, a peculiar narrowness of interpretation, attained supremacy precisely thereby: the origin of an action was interpreted in the most definite sense possible, as origin out of an INTENTION; people were agreed in the belief that the value of an action lay in the value of its intention. The intention as the sole origin and antecedent history of an action: under the influence of this prejudice moral praise and blame have been bestowed, and men have judged and even philosophized almost up to the present day.


----------



## GISMYS

ronin said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> may that day come soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh!! It will!!! God's word says so!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> throughout the longest period of human historyone calls it the prehistoric periodthe value or non-value of an action was inferred from its consequences; the action in itself was not taken into consideration, any more than its origin; but , where the distinction or disgrace of a child redounds to its parents, the retro-operating power of success or failure was what induced men to think well or ill of an action. Let us call this period the pre-moral period of mankind; the imperative, "know thyself!" was then still unknown.
> 
> in the last ten thousand years, on the other hand, on certain large portions of the earth, one has gradually got so far, that one no longer lets the consequences of an action, but its origin, decide with regard to its worth: A great achievement as a whole, an important refinement of vision and of criterion, the unconscious effect of the supremacy of aristocratic values and of the belief in "origin," the mark of a period which may be designated in the narrower sense as the moral one: The first attempt at self-knowledge is thereby made. I
> 
> nstead of the consequences, the originwhat an inversion of perspective! And assuredly an inversion effected only after long struggle and wavering! To be sure, an ominous new superstition, a peculiar narrowness of interpretation, attained supremacy precisely thereby: The origin of an action was interpreted in the most definite sense possible, as origin out of an intention; people were agreed in the belief that the value of an action lay in the value of its intention. The intention as the sole origin and antecedent history of an action: Under the influence of this prejudice moral praise and blame have been bestowed, and men have judged and even philosophized almost up to the present day.
Click to expand...


all that to say what??????????????


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh!! It will!!! God's word says so!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> throughout the longest period of human historyone calls it the prehistoric periodthe value or non-value of an action was inferred from its consequences; the action in itself was not taken into consideration, any more than its origin; but , where the distinction or disgrace of a child redounds to its parents, the retro-operating power of success or failure was what induced men to think well or ill of an action. Let us call this period the pre-moral period of mankind; the imperative, "know thyself!" was then still unknown.
> 
> in the last ten thousand years, on the other hand, on certain large portions of the earth, one has gradually got so far, that one no longer lets the consequences of an action, but its origin, decide with regard to its worth: A great achievement as a whole, an important refinement of vision and of criterion, the unconscious effect of the supremacy of aristocratic values and of the belief in "origin," the mark of a period which may be designated in the narrower sense as the moral one: The first attempt at self-knowledge is thereby made. I
> 
> nstead of the consequences, the originwhat an inversion of perspective! And assuredly an inversion effected only after long struggle and wavering! To be sure, an ominous new superstition, a peculiar narrowness of interpretation, attained supremacy precisely thereby: The origin of an action was interpreted in the most definite sense possible, as origin out of an intention; people were agreed in the belief that the value of an action lay in the value of its intention. The intention as the sole origin and antecedent history of an action: Under the influence of this prejudice moral praise and blame have been bestowed, and men have judged and even philosophized almost up to the present day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> all that to say what??????????????
Click to expand...


It couldn't be any clearer.


----------



## GISMYS

ronin said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> throughout the longest period of human historyone calls it the prehistoric periodthe value or non-value of an action was inferred from its consequences; the action in itself was not taken into consideration, any more than its origin; but , where the distinction or disgrace of a child redounds to its parents, the retro-operating power of success or failure was what induced men to think well or ill of an action. Let us call this period the pre-moral period of mankind; the imperative, "know thyself!" was then still unknown.
> 
> in the last ten thousand years, on the other hand, on certain large portions of the earth, one has gradually got so far, that one no longer lets the consequences of an action, but its origin, decide with regard to its worth: A great achievement as a whole, an important refinement of vision and of criterion, the unconscious effect of the supremacy of aristocratic values and of the belief in "origin," the mark of a period which may be designated in the narrower sense as the moral one: The first attempt at self-knowledge is thereby made. I
> 
> nstead of the consequences, the originwhat an inversion of perspective! And assuredly an inversion effected only after long struggle and wavering! To be sure, an ominous new superstition, a peculiar narrowness of interpretation, attained supremacy precisely thereby: The origin of an action was interpreted in the most definite sense possible, as origin out of an intention; people were agreed in the belief that the value of an action lay in the value of its intention. The intention as the sole origin and antecedent history of an action: Under the influence of this prejudice moral praise and blame have been bestowed, and men have judged and even philosophized almost up to the present day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all that to say what??????????????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it couldn't be any clearer.
Click to expand...


roflmao!!! Silly double talk that says nothing!!!


----------



## GISMYS

GOD say this is the future HE has planned for ZION(JERSULAM)==


Arise, shine;
For your light has come!
And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
2 
For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you.

*<Snipped>*

9 
Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me;
And the ships of Tarshish will come first,
To bring your sons from afar,
Their silver and their gold with them,
To the name of the Lord your God,
And to the Holy One of Israel,
Because He has glorified you.
10 
&#8220;The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
And their kings shall minister to you;
For in My wrath I struck you,
But in My favor I have had mercy on you.
11 
Therefore your gates shall be open continually;
They shall not be shut day or night,
That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles,
And their kings in procession.
12 
For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
And those nations shall be utterly ruined.
13 
&#8220;The glory of Lebanon shall come to you,
The cypress, the pine, and the box tree together,
To beautify the place of My sanctuary;
And I will make the place of My feet glorious.
14 
Also the sons of those who afflicted you
Shall come bowing to you,
And all those who despised you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet;
And they shall call you The City of the Lord,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15 
&#8220;Whereas you have been forsaken and hated,
So that no one went through you,
I will make you an eternal excellence,
A joy of many generations.
16 
You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles,
And milk the breast of kings;
You shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior
And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.
17 
&#8220;Instead of bronze I will bring gold,
Instead of iron I will bring silver,
Instead of wood, bronze,
And instead of stones, iron.
I will also make your officers peace,
And your magistrates righteousness.
18 
Violence shall no longer be heard in your land,
Neither wasting nor destruction within your borders;
But you shall call your walls Salvation,
And your gates Praise.
*ISAIAH 60:1-18*


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> all that to say what??????????????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it couldn't be any clearer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> roflmao!!! Silly double talk that says nothing!!!
Click to expand...


roflmfao!!!  As if you are saying anything.   

Every post of yours I read reminds me of. . . .

"Hey you ever had Deja Vu?" . . . . . . . . .



"Hey you ever had Deja Vu?"


----------



## GISMYS

GISMYS said:


> GOD say this is the future HE has planned for ZION(JERSULAM)==
> 
> 
> Arise, shine;
> For your light has come!
> And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
> 2
> For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
> And deep darkness the people;
> But the Lord will arise over you,
> And His glory will be seen upon you.
> 
> *<Snipped>*
> 
> 9
> Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me;
> And the ships of Tarshish will come first,
> To bring your sons from afar,
> Their silver and their gold with them,
> To the name of the Lord your God,
> And to the Holy One of Israel,
> Because He has glorified you.
> 10
> The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
> And their kings shall minister to you;
> For in My wrath I struck you,
> But in My favor I have had mercy on you.
> 11
> Therefore your gates shall be open continually;
> They shall not be shut day or night,
> That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles,
> And their kings in procession.
> 12
> For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
> And those nations shall be utterly ruined.
> 13
> The glory of Lebanon shall come to you,
> The cypress, the pine, and the box tree together,
> To beautify the place of My sanctuary;
> And I will make the place of My feet glorious.
> 14
> Also the sons of those who afflicted you
> Shall come bowing to you,
> And all those who despised you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet;
> And they shall call you The City of the Lord,
> Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
> 15
> Whereas you have been forsaken and hated,
> So that no one went through you,
> I will make you an eternal excellence,
> A joy of many generations.
> 16
> You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles,
> And milk the breast of kings;
> You shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior
> And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.
> 17
> Instead of bronze I will bring gold,
> Instead of iron I will bring silver,
> Instead of wood, bronze,
> And instead of stones, iron.
> I will also make your officers peace,
> And your magistrates righteousness.
> 18
> Violence shall no longer be heard in your land,
> Neither wasting nor destruction within your borders;
> But you shall call your walls Salvation,
> And your gates Praise.
> *ISAIAH 60:1-18*




The Gentiles shall come to your light,
And kings to the brightness of your rising.
4 
Lift up your eyes all around, and see:
They all gather together, they come to you;
Your sons shall come from afar,
And your daughters shall be nursed at your side.
5 
Then you shall see and become radiant,
And your heart shall swell with joy;
Because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you,
The wealth of the Gentiles shall come to you.
6
The multitude of camels shall cover your land,
The dromedaries of Midian and Ephah;
All those from Sheba shall come;
They shall bring gold and incense,
And they shall proclaim the praises of the Lord.
7
All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together to you,
The rams of Nebaioth shall minister to you;
They shall ascend with acceptance on My altar,
And I will glorify the house of My glory


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> GOD say this is the future HE has planned for ZION(JERSULAM)==
> 
> 
> Arise, shine;
> For your light has come!
> And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
> 2
> For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
> And deep darkness the people;
> But the Lord will arise over you,
> And His glory will be seen upon you.
> 
> *<Snipped>*
> 
> 9
> Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me;
> And the ships of Tarshish will come first,
> To bring your sons from afar,
> Their silver and their gold with them,
> To the name of the Lord your God,
> And to the Holy One of Israel,
> Because He has glorified you.
> 10
> The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
> And their kings shall minister to you;
> For in My wrath I struck you,
> But in My favor I have had mercy on you.
> 11
> Therefore your gates shall be open continually;
> They shall not be shut day or night,
> That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles,
> And their kings in procession.
> 12
> For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
> And those nations shall be utterly ruined.
> 13
> The glory of Lebanon shall come to you,
> The cypress, the pine, and the box tree together,
> To beautify the place of My sanctuary;
> And I will make the place of My feet glorious.
> 14
> Also the sons of those who afflicted you
> Shall come bowing to you,
> And all those who despised you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet;
> And they shall call you The City of the Lord,
> Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
> 15
> Whereas you have been forsaken and hated,
> So that no one went through you,
> I will make you an eternal excellence,
> A joy of many generations.
> 16
> You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles,
> And milk the breast of kings;
> You shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior
> And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.
> 17
> Instead of bronze I will bring gold,
> Instead of iron I will bring silver,
> Instead of wood, bronze,
> And instead of stones, iron.
> I will also make your officers peace,
> And your magistrates righteousness.
> 18
> Violence shall no longer be heard in your land,
> Neither wasting nor destruction within your borders;
> But you shall call your walls Salvation,
> And your gates Praise.
> *ISAIAH 60:1-18*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gentiles shall come to your light,
> And kings to the brightness of your rising.
> 4
> Lift up your eyes all around, and see:
> They all gather together, they come to you;
> Your sons shall come from afar,
> And your daughters shall be nursed at your side.
> 5
> Then you shall see and become radiant,
> And your heart shall swell with joy;
> Because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you,
> The wealth of the Gentiles shall come to you.
> 6
> The multitude of camels shall cover your land,
> The dromedaries of Midian and Ephah;
> All those from Sheba shall come;
> They shall bring gold and incense,
> And they shall proclaim the praises of the Lord.
> 7
> All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together to you,
> The rams of Nebaioth shall minister to you;
> They shall ascend with acceptance on My altar,
> And I will glorify the house of My glory
Click to expand...


Apart from the value of such assertions as "there is a categorical imperative in us," one can always ask: What does such an assertion indicate about him who makes it? There are systems of morals which are meant to justify their author in the eyes of other people; other systems of morals are meant to tranquilize him, and make him self-satisfied; with other systems he wants to crucify and humble himself, with others he wishes to take revenge, with others to conceal himself, with others to glorify himself and gave superiority and distinction,

this system of morals helps its author to forget, that system makes him, or something of him, forgotten, many a moralist would like to exercise power and creative arbitrariness over mankind, many another, perhaps, Kant especially, gives us to understand by his morals that "what is estimable in me, is that I know how to obeyand with you it SHALL not be otherwise than with me!" In short, systems of morals are only a SIGN-LANGUAGE OF THE EMOTIONS.


----------



## montelatici

It's fairy tales, but if the Christian Fundies ever figured out (too dumb to do so though) what this lot thinks of them and JC, they just might turn on their good friends.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> It's fairy tales, but if the Christian Fundies ever figured out (too dumb to do so though) what this lot thinks of them and JC, they just might turn on their good friends.



I'm Jewish and I respect Christian fundamentalists.  They're supporters of Israel, which is great.  And it's refreshing just to find people of faith in this day and age.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's fairy tales, but if the Christian Fundies ever figured out (too dumb to do so though) what this lot thinks of them and JC, they just might turn on their good friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm Jewish and I respect Christian fundamentalists.  They're supporters of Israel, which is great.  And it's refreshing just to find people of faith in this day and age.
Click to expand...


What if they ever figure out what that crap being posted about Gentiles and by extension,  JC means? I doubt they even know that they are Gentiles, that is the depth of their ignorance.


----------



## GISMYS

ronin said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> god say this is the future he has planned for zion(jersulam)==
> 
> 
> arise, shine;
> for your light has come!
> And the glory of the lord is risen upon you.
> 2
> for behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
> and deep darkness the people;
> but the lord will arise over you,
> and his glory will be seen upon you.
> 
> *<snipped>*
> 
> 9
> surely the coastlands shall wait for me;
> and the ships of tarshish will come first,
> to bring your sons from afar,
> their silver and their gold with them,
> to the name of the lord your god,
> and to the holy one of israel,
> because he has glorified you.
> 10
> the sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
> and their kings shall minister to you;
> for in my wrath i struck you,
> but in my favor i have had mercy on you.
> 11
> therefore your gates shall be open continually;
> they shall not be shut day or night,
> that men may bring to you the wealth of the gentiles,
> and their kings in procession.
> 12
> for the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
> and those nations shall be utterly ruined.
> 13
> the glory of lebanon shall come to you,
> the cypress, the pine, and the box tree together,
> to beautify the place of my sanctuary;
> and i will make the place of my feet glorious.
> 14
> also the sons of those who afflicted you
> shall come bowing to you,
> and all those who despised you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet;
> and they shall call you the city of the lord,
> zion of the holy one of israel.
> 15
> whereas you have been forsaken and hated,
> so that no one went through you,
> i will make you an eternal excellence,
> a joy of many generations.
> 16
> you shall drink the milk of the gentiles,
> and milk the breast of kings;
> you shall know that i, the lord, am your savior
> and your redeemer, the mighty one of jacob.
> 17
> instead of bronze i will bring gold,
> instead of iron i will bring silver,
> instead of wood, bronze,
> and instead of stones, iron.
> I will also make your officers peace,
> and your magistrates righteousness.
> 18
> violence shall no longer be heard in your land,
> neither wasting nor destruction within your borders;
> but you shall call your walls salvation,
> and your gates praise.
> *isaiah 60:1-18*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the gentiles shall come to your light,
> and kings to the brightness of your rising.
> 4
> lift up your eyes all around, and see:
> They all gather together, they come to you;
> your sons shall come from afar,
> and your daughters shall be nursed at your side.
> 5
> then you shall see and become radiant,
> and your heart shall swell with joy;
> because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you,
> the wealth of the gentiles shall come to you.
> 6
> the multitude of camels shall cover your land,
> the dromedaries of midian and ephah;
> all those from sheba shall come;
> they shall bring gold and incense,
> and they shall proclaim the praises of the lord.
> 7
> all the flocks of kedar shall be gathered together to you,
> the rams of nebaioth shall minister to you;
> they shall ascend with acceptance on my altar,
> and i will glorify the house of my glory
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> apart from the value of such assertions as "there is a categorical imperative in us," one can always ask: What does such an assertion indicate about him who makes it? There are systems of morals which are meant to justify their author in the eyes of other people; other systems of morals are meant to tranquilize him, and make him self-satisfied; with other systems he wants to crucify and humble himself, with others he wishes to take revenge, with others to conceal himself, with others to glorify himself and gave superiority and distinction,
> 
> this system of morals helps its author to forget, that system makes him, or something of him, forgotten, many a moralist would like to exercise power and creative arbitrariness over mankind, many another, perhaps, kant especially, gives us to understand by his morals that "what is estimable in me, is that i know how to obeyand with you it shall not be otherwise than with me!" in short, systems of morals are only a sign-language of the emotions.
Click to expand...


more silly double talk saying nothing of value!!! Why waste the time??


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's fairy tales, but if the Christian Fundies ever figured out (too dumb to do so though) what this lot thinks of them and JC, they just might turn on their good friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm Jewish and I respect Christian fundamentalists.  They're supporters of Israel, which is great.  And it's refreshing just to find people of faith in this day and age.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What if they ever figure out what that crap being posted about Gentiles and by extension,  JC means? I doubt they even know that they are Gentiles, that is the depth of their ignorance.
Click to expand...


Jews believe that all moral people, including Gentiles, are assured of a place in Heaven.


----------



## GISMYS

foreveryoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm jewish and i respect christian fundamentalists.  They're supporters of israel, which is great.  And it's refreshing just to find people of faith in this day and age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what if they ever figure out what that crap being posted about gentiles and by extension,  jc means? I doubt they even know that they are gentiles, that is the depth of their ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> jews believe that all moral people, including gentiles, are assured of a place in heaven.
Click to expand...


yes!!! The jews rejected their savior but in these last days they will become believers and all israel shall confess jesus as their lord and savior and be saved!!! Ptl.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm Jewish and I respect Christian fundamentalists.  They're supporters of Israel, which is great.  And it's refreshing just to find people of faith in this day and age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if they ever figure out what that crap being posted about Gentiles and by extension,  JC means? I doubt they even know that they are Gentiles, that is the depth of their ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews believe that all moral people, including Gentiles, are assured of a place in Heaven.
Click to expand...


Not according to Jewish scripture, but you may certainly believe it.  But since it's all fairy tales I am not going to continue this line of argument.


----------



## montelatici

GISMYS said:


> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> what if they ever figure out what that crap being posted about gentiles and by extension,  jc means? I doubt they even know that they are gentiles, that is the depth of their ignorance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jews believe that all moral people, including gentiles, are assured of a place in heaven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes!!! The jews rejected their savior but in these last days they will become believers and all israel shall confess jesus as their lord and savior and be saved!!! Ptl.
Click to expand...


You believe that Jews will accept Jesus Christ?  You are crazier than I thought.  They would cease to be Jews, don't you get it?  I would not want Jews to lose their identity.  I just want them to be fair to the non-Jews of Palestine.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> jews believe that all moral people, including gentiles, are assured of a place in heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! The jews rejected their savior but in these last days they will become believers and all israel shall confess jesus as their lord and savior and be saved!!! Ptl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You believe that Jews will accept Jesus Christ?  You are crazier than I thought.  They would cease to be Jews, don't you get it?  I would not want Jews to lose their identity.  I just want them to be fair to the non-Jews of Palestine.
Click to expand...


YES!!! ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED!!! GOD'S WORD SAYS SO!! I BELIEVE GOD!!AND YOU???????? ==I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so """all Israel will be saved.""" As the Scriptures say,

The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem,
    and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
27
And this is my covenant with them,
    that I will take away their sins.
ROMANS 11:26-27


----------



## montelatici

Good luck with that. LOL


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> Good luck with that. LOL



no luck needed!!!JUST BELIEVE GOD'S WORD!!! OR DO YOU THINK GOD DOES NOT KNOW???


----------



## montelatici

GISMYS said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with that. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no luck needed!!!JUST BELIEVE GOD'S WORD!!! OR DO YOU THINK GOD DOES NOT KNOW???
Click to expand...


I think you are delusional.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with that. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no luck needed!!!JUST BELIEVE GOD'S WORD!!! OR DO YOU THINK GOD DOES NOT KNOW???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you are delusional.
Click to expand...


READ AGAIN VERY SLOWLY!!!===YES!!! ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED!!! GOD'S WORD SAYS SO!! I BELIEVE GOD!!AND YOU???????? ==I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so """all Israel will be saved.""" As the Scriptures say,

The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem,
and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
27
And this is my covenant with them,
that I will take away their sins.
ROMANS 11:26-27


----------



## montelatici

GISMYS said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> no luck needed!!!JUST BELIEVE GOD'S WORD!!! OR DO YOU THINK GOD DOES NOT KNOW???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are delusional.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> READ AGAIN VERY SLOWLY!!!===YES!!! ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED!!! GOD'S WORD SAYS SO!! I BELIEVE GOD!!AND YOU???????? ==I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so """all Israel will be saved.""" As the Scriptures say,
> 
> The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem,
> and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
> 27
> And this is my covenant with them,
> that I will take away their sins.
> ROMANS 11:26-27
Click to expand...


Who cares what the fairy tale states, I could be a Hindu or Buddhist for all you know.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think you are delusional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> read again very slowly!!!===yes!!! All israel shall be saved!!! God's word says so!! I believe god!!and you???????? ==i want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of gentiles comes to christ. 26 and so """all israel will be saved.""" as the scriptures say,
> 
> the one who rescues will come from jerusalem,
> and he will turn israel away from ungodliness.
> 27
> and this is my covenant with them,
> that i will take away their sins.
> romans 11:26-27
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> who cares what the fairy tale states, i could be a hindu or buddhist for all you know.
Click to expand...


who or what you are changes no truth!!! God's word is living eternal truth!!! Wise up!! Time is very short!!!


----------



## montelatici

GISMYS said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> read again very slowly!!!===yes!!! All israel shall be saved!!! God's word says so!! I believe god!!and you???????? ==i want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of gentiles comes to christ. 26 and so """all israel will be saved.""" as the scriptures say,
> 
> the one who rescues will come from jerusalem,
> and he will turn israel away from ungodliness.
> 27
> and this is my covenant with them,
> that i will take away their sins.
> romans 11:26-27
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who cares what the fairy tale states, i could be a hindu or buddhist for all you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> who or what you are changes no truth!!! God's word is living eternal truth!!! Wise up!! Time is very short!!!
Click to expand...


There are billions that believe in other Gods, your God means nothing to them.  You are no closer to knowing who God is than a Hindu.  Open your mind and wise up, time is short.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> who cares what the fairy tale states, i could be a hindu or buddhist for all you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who or what you are changes no truth!!! God's word is living eternal truth!!! Wise up!! Time is very short!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are billions that believe in other Gods, your God means nothing to them.  You are no closer to knowing who God is than a Hindu.  Open your mind and wise up, time is short.
Click to expand...


YES!!! THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF FALSE gods!!! YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE IS TO SEEK AND FIND TRUTH!!!  HINT= ALMIGHTY GOD IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD!!!


----------



## montelatici

Oh, now you know who the real God is.  Sorry buddy, you are full of it. No one except a few, very few deluded maniacs believe what you believe.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> oh, now you know who the real god is.  Sorry buddy, you are full of it. No one except a few, very few deluded maniacs believe what you believe.



yes!!! I know who the one true god almighty is!!! Read and study the holybible and you too may find truth and eternal life!!!


----------



## montelatici

GISMYS said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh, now you know who the real god is.  Sorry buddy, you are full of it. No one except a few, very few deluded maniacs believe what you believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! I know who the one true god almighty is!!! Read and study the holybible and you too may find truth and eternal life!!!
Click to expand...


Oh go away, you know nothing. The holy bible is not holy it is a fairy tale. How in the heck can you believe that billions of people are wrong and you are right? It is tremendous disrespect for people of other faiths. Disgusting actually.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh, now you know who the real god is.  Sorry buddy, you are full of it. No one except a few, very few deluded maniacs believe what you believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! I know who the one true god almighty is!!! Read and study the holybible and you too may find truth and eternal life!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh go away, you know nothing. The holy bible is not holy it is a fairy tale. How in the heck can you believe that billions of people are wrong and you are right? It is tremendous disrespect for people of other faiths. Disgusting actually.
Click to expand...


yes!!!! No other book even trys to tell us the beginning to the end of this age in great detail but god is outside time =the alpha and omega and the proof god's word is true is found in his word!!!


----------



## montelatici

Read the Vedas and you will know the truth and you might be saved.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> read the vedas and you will know the truth and you might be saved.



oh!!!!  God tells me in great detail the beginning to the end of this age what does your god tell you about world events ,the mid east,ww111,climate change,earthquakes, world economy tomorrow,  tell us!!!


----------



## Ronin

GISMYS said:


> ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> the gentiles shall come to your light,
> and kings to the brightness of your rising.
> 4
> &#8220;lift up your eyes all around, and see:
> They all gather together, they come to you;
> your sons shall come from afar,
> and your daughters shall be nursed at your side.
> 5
> then you shall see and become radiant,
> and your heart shall swell with joy;
> because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you,
> the wealth of the gentiles shall come to you.
> 6
> the multitude of camels shall cover your land,
> the dromedaries of midian and ephah;
> all those from sheba shall come;
> they shall bring gold and incense,
> and they shall proclaim the praises of the lord.
> 7
> all the flocks of kedar shall be gathered together to you,
> the rams of nebaioth shall minister to you;
> they shall ascend with acceptance on my altar,
> and i will glorify the house of my glory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apart from the value of such assertions as "there is a categorical imperative in us," one can always ask: What does such an assertion indicate about him who makes it? There are systems of morals which are meant to justify their author in the eyes of other people; other systems of morals are meant to tranquilize him, and make him self-satisfied; with other systems he wants to crucify and humble himself, with others he wishes to take revenge, with others to conceal himself, with others to glorify himself and gave superiority and distinction,
> 
> &#8212;this system of morals helps its author to forget, that system makes him, or something of him, forgotten, many a moralist would like to exercise power and creative arbitrariness over mankind, many another, perhaps, kant especially, gives us to understand by his morals that "what is estimable in me, is that i know how to obey&#8212;and with you it shall not be otherwise than with me!" in short, systems of morals are only a sign-language of the emotions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> more silly double talk saying nothing of value!!! Why waste the time??
Click to expand...


----------



## American_Jihad

Ronin said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> apart from the value of such assertions as "there is a categorical imperative in us," one can always ask: What does such an assertion indicate about him who makes it? There are systems of morals which are meant to justify their author in the eyes of other people; other systems of morals are meant to tranquilize him, and make him self-satisfied; with other systems he wants to crucify and humble himself, with others he wishes to take revenge, with others to conceal himself, with others to glorify himself and gave superiority and distinction,
> 
> this system of morals helps its author to forget, that system makes him, or something of him, forgotten, many a moralist would like to exercise power and creative arbitrariness over mankind, many another, perhaps, kant especially, gives us to understand by his morals that "what is estimable in me, is that i know how to obeyand with you it shall not be otherwise than with me!" in short, systems of morals are only a sign-language of the emotions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more silly double talk saying nothing of value!!! Why waste the time??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzTikg0z9jw]Swearing Preacher - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Black liberation theology...


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> yes!!! The jews rejected their savior but in these last days they will become believers and all israel shall confess jesus as their lord and savior and be saved!!! Ptl.



You don't know many Jews.  Most would rather be tortured and killed than accept Jesus.


----------



## toastman

Victory67 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! The jews rejected their savior but in these last days they will become believers and all israel shall confess jesus as their lord and savior and be saved!!! Ptl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know many Jews.  Most would rather be tortured and killed than accept Jesus.
Click to expand...


That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why must you spread lies about Jews??


----------



## natstew

TakeAStepBack said:


> I have no vested interest in Israel. Stay, go, fuck off. It means less than nothing to me. I just see a lot of "Yay! Israel!!" threads around here. So ask, who cares?



I care and evidently so do everyone else who are posting those "Yay Israel" threads.
Looks like you're a minority here. you mean less than nothing to me, but who cares?


----------



## Victory67

toastman said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! The jews rejected their savior but in these last days they will become believers and all israel shall confess jesus as their lord and savior and be saved!!! Ptl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know many Jews.  Most would rather be tortured and killed than accept Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why must you spread lies about Jews??
Click to expand...


How many Jews become Christian every year?

15?

Jews are very committed to their faith.  Interesting how some find that to be an insult.


----------



## GISMYS

GOD'S WORD TELLS US ""ALL"" ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED, GOD KNOWS! BELIEVE GOD!!!===YES!!! ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED!!! GOD'S WORD SAYS SO!! I BELIEVE GOD!!AND YOU???????? ==I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so """all Israel will be saved.""" As the Scriptures say,

The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem,
and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
27
And this is my covenant with them,
that I will take away their sins.
ROMANS 11:26-27


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! The jews rejected their savior but in these last days they will become believers and all israel shall confess jesus as their lord and savior and be saved!!! Ptl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know many Jews.  Most would rather be tortured and killed than accept Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why must you spread lies about Jews??
Click to expand...


What lies, tens of thousands of Spanish Jews were tortured because they would not convert to Christianity during the Inquisition or after La Riconquista in Spain.  Most you Yanks are truly uneducated.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you don't know many jews.  Most would rather be tortured and killed than accept jesus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Why must you spread lies about jews??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what lies, tens of thousands of spanish jews were tortured because they would not convert to christianity during the inquisition or after la riconquista in spain.  Most you yanks are truly uneducated.
Click to expand...


so you deny the truth of god's word? God says "all" israel will be saved by believing in jesus as therir lord and savior!!!


----------



## montelatici

GISMYS said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Why must you spread lies about jews??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what lies, tens of thousands of spanish jews were tortured because they would not convert to christianity during the inquisition or after la riconquista in spain.  Most you yanks are truly uneducated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you deny the truth of god's word? God says "all" israel will be saved by believing in jesus as therir lord and savior!!!
Click to expand...


I deny the bullshit you are spreading.


----------



## Victory67

GISMYS said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Why must you spread lies about jews??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what lies, tens of thousands of spanish jews were tortured because they would not convert to christianity during the inquisition or after la riconquista in spain.  Most you yanks are truly uneducated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you deny the truth of god's word? God says "all" israel will be saved by believing in jesus as therir lord and savior!!!
Click to expand...


The Jews would rather die than accept your jesus.


----------



## GISMYS

montelatici said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> what lies, tens of thousands of spanish jews were tortured because they would not convert to christianity during the inquisition or after la riconquista in spain.  Most you yanks are truly uneducated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so you deny the truth of god's word? God says "all" israel will be saved by believing in jesus as therir lord and savior!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i deny the bullshit you are spreading.
Click to expand...


no!!! You are trying to deny the truth of god's word!!! Best you count the cost!!!


----------



## Ronin

American_Jihad said:


> Ronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> more silly double talk saying nothing of value!!! Why waste the time??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzTikg0z9jw]Swearing Preacher - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Black liberation theology...
Click to expand...


I agree.  I apologize it turned into a bit of a thread jacking.  I posted it to indirectly illustrate a point to another member similar to your feedback without the Black Liberation.


----------



## aris2chat

If people already believe in god and the books of moses, why should salvation only be had if people accept another person as the son of god as the only way to god?  Redundant and leads to polythesism as jesus is in competition with god.
We are all the children of god, should we all be the next salvation or subject of worship?
Is god the father or is the son the father/god?
Jesus did not come to invent a new religion of the followers of jesus did just that.  So is what jesus taught correct or is what his followers followers taught correct?
One god, just god.  no son, spirits, saints, etc, just one god in all his aspects. If we pray to a tree, it is still a part of god.  If we choose to see god as female, it is still god.  If we see god as the laws of science and nature, it is still god.  If we see god as a neutral force, it is still god.  the son as divinity is a church creation long after Jesus death.

When we die, we will all face god and if god is any god worthy of being god it will accept everyone off all faiths unconditionally.  That after all is what love is about, unconditionally.


----------



## GISMYS

Jesus is god!!!  Almighty god is father,son and holyspirit=god almighty!! Yes!!! God knows man's heart,no one fools or plays games with god!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

GISMYS said:


> Jesus is god!!!  Almighty god is father,son and holyspirit=god almighty!! Yes!!! God knows man's heart,no one fools or plays games with god!



I don't understand the Trinity.  Can you please explain it?


----------



## GISMYS

foreveryoung436 said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> jesus is god!!!  Almighty god is father,son and holyspirit=god almighty!! Yes!!! God knows man's heart,no one fools or plays games with god!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't understand the trinity.  Can you please explain it?
Click to expand...


simple!!! Man too is three =one!!! Man is body,soul and spirit,god is god the father,god the son and god the holyspirit.


----------



## aris2chat

GISMYS said:


> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> jesus is god!!!  Almighty god is father,son and holyspirit=god almighty!! Yes!!! God knows man's heart,no one fools or plays games with god!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't understand the trinity.  Can you please explain it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> simple!!! Man too is three =one!!! Man is body,soul and spirit,god is god the father,god the son and god the holyspirit.
Click to expand...


it is still god, so if people already believe in god and follow the laws given by god, why do they need a son to save them?  A son who was declared divine by men of the new church not of the same religion that jesus taught.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Majority of Americans Say Palestinian State Will be Terrorist, Oppose Foreign Aid*

February 18, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield







In a poll conducted by McLaughlin Associates, there isnt much support for Kerrys peace plan or for the Palestinian Authority. Obama and other leftist politicians have complained that Congress has the same views as the Likud.

Apparently so do most Americans, which may be why Congress has those views. The poll is nearly evenly split between Democrats and Republicans and only included 3.6% of Jews. And it reflects views that are well to the right of the editorial page and Washington D.C.

_47% of Americans believe that Israeli Jews should have the right to live in the West Bank in part for Israel to self-defend its borders, whereas only 14% of Americans believe only Palestinian Arabs should have the right to live there (over a 3  1 ratio)

An overwhelming majority of 72% Americans oppose President Obamas plan to give the Palestinian Authority (PA) $440 million, as opposed to 15% who believe that he should (almost a 5  1 ratio).

A large majority 63% of Americans believe that the PA should recognize Israel as the sovereign state of the Jewish people, whereas only 11% believe it should not (almost a 6  1 ratio).

Only 31% of Americans believe that President Barack Obama is a close and reliable friend of Israel, as opposed to 38% who believe that he is not. (This is a surprising result, given that the U.S. has always been known as Israels closest and most reliable friend).

A large majority of 59% of Americans believe that the U.S. should impose stronger sanctions on Iran to convince it to stop developing nuclear weapons, as opposed to  17% who believe the U.S. should weaken sanctions on Iran to convince it to stop developing nuclear weapons._

...

Majority of Americans Say Palestinian State Will be Terrorist, Oppose Foreign Aid | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Victory67

They used to say the USSR would be around forever.

They used to say Apartheid would be around forever.

They used to say Germany would be split forever.

Israel as a state may exist for more than a century, but its racist regime will not last another 50 years.


----------



## Hossfly

Victory67 said:


> They used to say the USSR would be around forever.
> 
> They used to say Apartheid would be around forever.
> 
> They used to say Germany would be split forever.
> 
> Israel as a state may exist for more than a century, but its racist regime will not last another 50 years.


I saw Elvis at Walmart this morning.


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They used to say the USSR would be around forever.
> 
> They used to say Apartheid would be around forever.
> 
> They used to say Germany would be split forever.
> 
> Israel as a state may exist for more than a century, but its racist regime will not last another 50 years.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw Elvis at Walmart this morning.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

Victory67 said:


> They used to say the USSR would be around forever.
> 
> They used to say Apartheid would be around forever.
> 
> They used to say Germany would be split forever.
> 
> Israel as a state may exist for more than a century, but its racist regime will not last another 50 years.



66 years ago, they said Israel wouldn't exist. For the next 66 years, they will be saying the same thing


----------



## Victory67

toastman said:


> 66 years ago, they said Israel wouldn't exist. For the next 66 years, they will be saying the same thing



Just as South Africa exists today, just in a very different form.

Israel will exist in 50 years but probably as a more equal and free society with no special rights for Jews.


----------



## RoccoR

American_Jihad,   _et al,_

This is a reasonable man hypothesis.



American_Jihad said:


> *Majority of Americans Say Palestinian State Will be Terrorist, Oppose Foreign Aid*
> 
> February 18, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield


*(COMMENT)*

There is an expectation.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## GISMYS

Israel is God's land and people===GOD SAYS At that time, when I restore the prosperity of Judah and Jerusalem, says the Lord,  2 I will gather the armies of the world into the Valley Where Jehovah Judges and punish them there for harming my people, for scattering my inheritance among the nations and """dividing up my land.""" joel #:2


----------



## Hossfly

RoccoR said:


> American_Jihad,   _et al,_
> 
> This is a reasonable man hypothesis.
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Majority of Americans Say Palestinian State Will be Terrorist, Oppose Foreign Aid*
> 
> February 18, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is an expectation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It may sound trite but it seemes to be in their nature, As MJB puts it, "Palestinian mentality".


----------



## aris2chat

Victory67 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 66 years ago, they said Israel wouldn't exist. For the next 66 years, they will be saying the same thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as South Africa exists today, just in a very different form.
> 
> Israel will exist in 50 years but probably as a more equal and free society with no special rights for Jews.
Click to expand...


arabs and jews in israel have the same rights.  Palestinians are not Israeli, but around 5000 a month are treated for in Israeli hospitals.  There are 27 hospital in gaza they can go to but Israel still takes them in for medical treatment, saving palestinians lives.


----------



## toastman

aris2chat said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 66 years ago, they said Israel wouldn't exist. For the next 66 years, they will be saying the same thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as South Africa exists today, just in a very different form.
> 
> Israel will exist in 50 years but probably as a more equal and free society with no special rights for Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> arabs and jews in israel have the same rights.  Palestinians are not Israeli, but around 5000 a month are treated for in Israeli hospitals.  There are 27 hospital in gaza they can go to but Israel still takes them in for medical treatment, saving palestinians lives.
Click to expand...


Theres 27 hospitals in Gaza?? Really ?


----------



## Sally

Victory67 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 66 years ago, they said Israel wouldn't exist. For the next 66 years, they will be saying the same thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as South Africa exists today, just in a very different form.
> 
> Israel will exist in 50 years but probably as a more equal and free society with no special rights for Jews.
Click to expand...


Say, can you guarantee that this will happen in the entire Middle East where each country will have a more equal and free socieity with np special rights for Muslims?  Wow, if this could happen, think how ecstatic the minority populations will feel -- no more killing by the Muslims in the name of a religion and everyone would be able to practice their own religious beliefs in peace.


----------



## GISMYS

God, dont sit idly by, silent and inactive when we pray. Answer us! Deliver us!

2Almighty God, Dont you hear the tumult and commotion of your enemies? Dont you see what they are doing, these proud men who hate the Lord?  3 They are full of craftiness and plot against your people, laying plans to slay your precious ones.  4 Come, they say, and let us wipe out Israel as a nationwe will destroy the very memory of her existence.  5 This was their unanimous decision at their summit conferencethey signed a treaty to ally themselves against Almighty God
===God says, At that time, when I restore the prosperity of Judah and Jerusalem, says the Lord,  2 I will gather the armies of the world into the Valley Where Jehovah Judges[a] and punish them there for harming my people, for scattering my inheritance among the nations and dividing up my land.


----------



## aris2chat

toastman said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as South Africa exists today, just in a very different form.
> 
> Israel will exist in 50 years but probably as a more equal and free society with no special rights for Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arabs and jews in israel have the same rights.  Palestinians are not Israeli, but around 5000 a month are treated for in Israeli hospitals.  There are 27 hospital in gaza they can go to but Israel still takes them in for medical treatment, saving palestinians lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Theres 27 hospitals in Gaza?? Really ?
Click to expand...



Yes

Egypt's Strife Reaching Gaza Hospitals With Lack of Fuel: Health - Jewish Policy Center


----------



## GISMYS

In Exodus 19:3-8 
And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israelif you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 
Do I hear GNASHING teeth??


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israeli jets reportedly strike Hizballah targets near Lebanon-Syria border*

Robert Spencer	 
Feb 24, 2014 at 4:21pm 






Much as Barack Obama and John Kerry try to compel Israel to negotiate itself out of existence, the Israelis are not willing to go gently into the night. This is a heartening sign that their resolve to resist the jihad is undiminished. This is encouraging for all free people, as they may be the free worlds last line of defense against Irans nuclear program. Israeli jets reportedly strike targets near Lebanon-Syria border, by Ilan Ben Zion for the Times of Israel, February 24:

Lebanese media reported Israeli air raids on targets in the Bekaa Valley, a Hezbollah stronghold bordering Syria on Monday night.

Planes hit targets in the Baalbek region near the town of Nabi Chit, Lebanese and Arab media said.

The area on the border with Syria, is known as a stronghold the the Shiite terror group Hezbollah.

A correspondent for the Lebanese state news agency in Baalbek reported intensive Israeli flights at very low altitude over the mountains.

...

Israeli jets reportedly strike Hizballah targets near Lebanon-Syria border : Jihad Watch


----------



## aris2chat

American_Jihad said:


> *Israeli jets reportedly strike Hizballah targets near Lebanon-Syria border*
> 
> Robert Spencer
> Feb 24, 2014 at 4:21pm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much as Barack Obama and John Kerry try to compel Israel to negotiate itself out of existence, the Israelis are not willing to go gently into the night. This is a heartening sign that their resolve to resist the jihad is undiminished. This is encouraging for all free people, as they may be the free worlds last line of defense against Irans nuclear program. Israeli jets reportedly strike targets near Lebanon-Syria border, by Ilan Ben Zion for the Times of Israel, February 24:
> 
> Lebanese media reported Israeli air raids on targets in the Bekaa Valley, a Hezbollah stronghold bordering Syria on Monday night.
> 
> Planes hit targets in the Baalbek region near the town of Nabi Chit, Lebanese and Arab media said.
> 
> The area on the border with Syria, is known as a stronghold the the Shiite terror group Hezbollah.
> 
> A correspondent for the Lebanese state news agency in Baalbek reported intensive Israeli flights at very low altitude over the mountains.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israeli jets reportedly strike Hizballah targets near Lebanon-Syria border : Jihad Watch



Hezbollah missile base at Serghaya Syria was hit, just east of the Lebanese border near Zahle.


----------



## proudveteran06

toastman said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Masada 2000, A wank-site for adolescent jewish Wimps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're mad?
> 
> 
> HAHa. ya, you're mad !
Click to expand...


Get pleasure that the JEWISH STATE  upsets him


----------



## American_Jihad

*Israels Homicidal Peace Partner*

March 7, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield 






Solomon Yahya was born in Yemen in 1915. He worked as a gardener for forty years in Israel. Even long after retirement he continued doing the work that he loved. A month before the Madrid Conference at which Israel was forced to negotiate with the PLO, he was stabbed to death in a public park.

He was 76 years old.

Solomon had escaped Muslim persecution in Yemen, where the last remaining Jews live in a ghetto, only to be murdered by a Muslim terrorist in his own country.

At the end of last year, Solomons murderer, Abu Mohsin Khaled Ibrahim Jamal, was freed by Israel as a confidence-building measure to bring Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the Palestinian Authority, to the negotiating table.

Most of the prisoners released along with Solomons murderer had also killed civilians; their victims included Steven Rosenfeld, an American immigrant, a mother of seven and a history professor.

The release of the murderers, negotiated by Kerry, was praised by a State Department spokeswoman as a positive step forward.

Mahmoud Abbas appeared together with Solomons murderer as well as two other killers and called them heroes and their release a day of our joy for our nation.

During his visit last year, Obama had told a handpicked Israeli audience, I genuinely believe that you do have a true partner in President Abbas. Obamas true partner refused to even show up for peace negotiations until the murderer of a 76-year-old gardener was released.

And Obama and Kerry backed Abbas demands.

...

Israel?s Homicidal Peace Partner | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Hossfly

American_Jihad said:


> *Israels Homicidal Peace Partner*
> 
> March 7, 2014 by Daniel Greenfield
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Solomon Yahya was born in Yemen in 1915. He worked as a gardener for forty years in Israel. Even long after retirement he continued doing the work that he loved. A month before the Madrid Conference at which Israel was forced to negotiate with the PLO, he was stabbed to death in a public park.
> 
> He was 76 years old.
> 
> Solomon had escaped Muslim persecution in Yemen, where the last remaining Jews live in a ghetto, only to be murdered by a Muslim terrorist in his own country.
> 
> At the end of last year, Solomons murderer, Abu Mohsin Khaled Ibrahim Jamal, was freed by Israel as a confidence-building measure to bring Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the Palestinian Authority, to the negotiating table.
> 
> Most of the prisoners released along with Solomons murderer had also killed civilians; their victims included Steven Rosenfeld, an American immigrant, a mother of seven and a history professor.
> 
> The release of the murderers, negotiated by Kerry, was praised by a State Department spokeswoman as a positive step forward.
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas appeared together with Solomons murderer as well as two other killers and called them heroes and their release a day of our joy for our nation.
> 
> During his visit last year, Obama had told a handpicked Israeli audience, I genuinely believe that you do have a true partner in President Abbas. Obamas true partner refused to even show up for peace negotiations until the murderer of a 76-year-old gardener was released.
> 
> And Obama and Kerry backed Abbas demands.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel?s Homicidal Peace Partner | FrontPage Magazine


The Kenyan Muslim chooses his friends carefully.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Activists Rally for Israel in New Orleans*

March 10, 2014 by Frontpagemag.com 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B084EmNeNDk#t=25]Pro-Israel Festival in New Orleans this Spring. Click on the link below to find out more.  - YouTube[/ame]

Activists Rally for Israel in New Orleans | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## GISMYS

Israel is God's land and people===GOD SAYS At that time, when I restore the prosperity of Judah and Jerusalem, says the Lord, 2 I will gather the armies of the world into the Valley Where Jehovah Judges and punish them there for harming my people, for scattering my inheritance among the nations and """dividing up my land.""" joel 2====2Almighty God, Dont you hear the tumult and commotion of your enemies? Dont you see what they are doing, these proud men who hate the Lord? 3 They are full of craftiness and plot against your people, laying plans to slay your precious ones. 4 Come, they say, and let us wipe out Israel as a nationwe will destroy the very memory of her existence. 5 This was their unanimous decision at their summit conferencethey signed a treaty to ally themselves against Almighty God
===God says, At that time, when I restore the prosperity of Judah and Jerusalem, says the Lord, 2 I will gather the armies of the world into the Valley Where Jehovah Judges[a] and punish them there for harming my people, for scattering my inheritance among the nations and dividing up my land. ===In Exodus 19:3-8 
And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israelif you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 
Do I hear GNASHING teeth??


----------



## GISMYS

Israel Restored to the Land
21 I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.

25 Therefore thus says the Lord God: Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel, says the Lord God.
EZEKIEL 39:


----------



## proudveteran06

TakeAStepBack said:


> I have no vested interest in Israel. Stay, go, fuck off. It means less than nothing to me. I just see a lot of "Yay! Israel!!" threads around here. So ask, who cares?





  If you didn't show some interest you wouldn't respond to her posts . Obviously the fact that Israel exists means a lot to you for whatever reason.  On this board you would see a lot of " Yay ! Israel !!!"  Threads around here ! Don't like it??  Fuck Off.  !!!!!!


----------



## American_Jihad

*Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah*

March 26, 2014 by Ari Lieberman






Following the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel offered to return land acquired during the conflict to her defeated Arab enemies in exchange for peace. On September 1, 1967 the Arab League, convening in Khartoum, Sudan drafted its predictable response to the Israeli overture in the form of the now infamous Three Nos proclamation: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it

Nothing has changed since then. Arabs still maintain their rejectionist attitudes toward reconciliation with Israel as evidenced by Mahmoud Abbas own version of the Arab Leagues Khartoum declaration.  A recent report indicated that Abbas rejected Israels three core demands that represent red lines for the Jewish state. Abbas refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, refused to abandon the so-called Palestinian right of return and refused to commit to an end of conflict or claims. Refusal to meet any one of the three conditions severely undermines prospects for peace. Refusal to accept all three however, all but torpedoes the process.

...

Israel has sacrificed much over the years for the cause of peace and has received nothing but worthless guarantees and groundless criticism in return. Israel, under Prime Minister Netanyahu has wisely adopted the policy of reciprocity. The days of unilateral Israeli territorial concessions are over. No longer will Israel hand over chunks of its ancestral land for vague assurances and worthless promises. It is time for the Obama administration to recognize the Palestinian Authority for what it truly is; an entity that does not seek peaceful relations with its neighbor but rather one that seeks the eradication of an existing democracy in favor of yet another dysfunctional Islamist theocracy.

Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> *Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah*
> 
> March 26, 2014 by Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel offered to return land acquired during the conflict to her defeated Arab enemies in exchange for peace. On September 1, 1967 the Arab League, convening in Khartoum, Sudan drafted its predictable response to the Israeli overture in the form of the now infamous Three Nos proclamation: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it
> 
> Nothing has changed since then. Arabs still maintain their rejectionist attitudes toward reconciliation with Israel as evidenced by Mahmoud Abbas own version of the Arab Leagues Khartoum declaration.  A recent report indicated that Abbas rejected Israels three core demands that represent red lines for the Jewish state. Abbas refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, refused to abandon the so-called Palestinian right of return and refused to commit to an end of conflict or claims. Refusal to meet any one of the three conditions severely undermines prospects for peace. Refusal to accept all three however, all but torpedoes the process.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel has sacrificed much over the years for the cause of peace and has received nothing but worthless guarantees and groundless criticism in return. Israel, under Prime Minister Netanyahu has wisely adopted the policy of reciprocity. The days of unilateral Israeli territorial concessions are over. No longer will Israel hand over chunks of its ancestral land for vague assurances and worthless promises. It is time for the Obama administration to recognize the Palestinian Authority for what it truly is; an entity that does not seek peaceful relations with its neighbor but rather one that seeks the eradication of an existing democracy in favor of yet another dysfunctional Islamist theocracy.
> 
> Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah | FrontPage Magazine


The occupied territories is not Israeli land.

There is nothing to hand over, they just need to get the fuck off it!

The first step to peace is to end the occupation and blockade.  

And that step is Israel's to make.


----------



## American_Jihad

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah*
> 
> March 26, 2014 by Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel offered to return land acquired during the conflict to her defeated Arab enemies in exchange for peace. On September 1, 1967 the Arab League, convening in Khartoum, Sudan drafted its predictable response to the Israeli overture in the form of the now infamous Three Nos proclamation: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it
> 
> Nothing has changed since then. Arabs still maintain their rejectionist attitudes toward reconciliation with Israel as evidenced by Mahmoud Abbas own version of the Arab Leagues Khartoum declaration.  A recent report indicated that Abbas rejected Israels three core demands that represent red lines for the Jewish state. Abbas refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, refused to abandon the so-called Palestinian right of return and refused to commit to an end of conflict or claims. Refusal to meet any one of the three conditions severely undermines prospects for peace. Refusal to accept all three however, all but torpedoes the process.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel has sacrificed much over the years for the cause of peace and has received nothing but worthless guarantees and groundless criticism in return. Israel, under Prime Minister Netanyahu has wisely adopted the policy of reciprocity. The days of unilateral Israeli territorial concessions are over. No longer will Israel hand over chunks of its ancestral land for vague assurances and worthless promises. It is time for the Obama administration to recognize the Palestinian Authority for what it truly is; an entity that does not seek peaceful relations with its neighbor but rather one that seeks the eradication of an existing democracy in favor of yet another dysfunctional Islamist theocracy.
> 
> Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> The occupied territories is not Israeli land.
> 
> There is nothing to hand over, they just need to get the fuck off it!
> 
> The first step to peace is to end the occupation and blockade.
> 
> And that step is Israel's to make.
Click to expand...


I like your other name (loin boy/loincloth) but billo suits ya...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FomyFUxx2fU]Mr. Bill Goes To Saturday Night Live - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## proudveteran06

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah*
> 
> March 26, 2014 by Ari Lieberman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel offered to return land acquired during the conflict to her defeated Arab enemies in exchange for peace. On September 1, 1967 the Arab League, convening in Khartoum, Sudan drafted its predictable response to the Israeli overture in the form of the now infamous Three Nos proclamation: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it
> 
> Nothing has changed since then. Arabs still maintain their rejectionist attitudes toward reconciliation with Israel as evidenced by Mahmoud Abbas own version of the Arab Leagues Khartoum declaration.  A recent report indicated that Abbas rejected Israels three core demands that represent red lines for the Jewish state. Abbas refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, refused to abandon the so-called Palestinian right of return and refused to commit to an end of conflict or claims. Refusal to meet any one of the three conditions severely undermines prospects for peace. Refusal to accept all three however, all but torpedoes the process.
> 
> ...
> 
> Israel has sacrificed much over the years for the cause of peace and has received nothing but worthless guarantees and groundless criticism in return. Israel, under Prime Minister Netanyahu has wisely adopted the policy of reciprocity. The days of unilateral Israeli territorial concessions are over. No longer will Israel hand over chunks of its ancestral land for vague assurances and worthless promises. It is time for the Obama administration to recognize the Palestinian Authority for what it truly is; an entity that does not seek peaceful relations with its neighbor but rather one that seeks the eradication of an existing democracy in favor of yet another dysfunctional Islamist theocracy.
> 
> Arab Rejectionism from Khartoum to Ramallah | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> The occupied territories is not Israeli land.
> 
> There is nothing to hand over, they just need to get the fuck off it!
> 
> The first step to peace is to end the occupation and blockade.
> 
> And that step is Israel's to make.
Click to expand...


 " Palestine" does not exist and never did
    Why didn't they accept those " borders" prior to 1967 ?  
   Abbas knows that Israel isn't going to agree to " Right of Return" which will eventually annex Israel to the Palestinian State
    Exactly what are the Palestinians doing to " negotiate?" 


     Finally; FUCK.  YOU.    !!


----------



## holston

GISMYS said:


> Israel Restored to the Land
> 21 &#8220;I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.&#8221;&#8217;
> 
> 25 &#8220;Therefore thus says the Lord God: &#8216;Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name&#8212; 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies&#8217; lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,&#8217; says the Lord God.&#8221;
> EZEKIEL 39:




 The events described in the above passages happened a long time ago. 
 Can you recall all of the events which followed those being referred to specifically in those passages?

 Did Israel ever "back slide" after that? 
 What happened then? 

 It is also important to remember that the coming of Christ happened long after those events. 

 Because of that, the OLD covenant (testament) was replaced by a NEW covenant. 

 Christians acknowledge the NEW covenant as being the one which is binding upon us today. 
  The Jews do not. 

 The difference is like night and day. 

 The OLD testament is described somewhere as a school master. Christ said that he did not come to destroy it, but rather to fulfill it. A Jew by definition denies that he did. 

 Christ made it pretty clear that those who were not for him were against him.

 In Israel most Jews agree that the differences between Muslims and Jews is so great, that a state program to prevent the sexual union of the two is necessary to "preserve the Jewish identity as a state and their heritage". 

 The difference between Christianity and Judaism is every bit as marked as the difference between Judaism and Islam if not more so.

 In the US, any attempts by Anglo Saxons to preserve either their race, their heritage, or their identity is characterized as "racist bigotry". 
In Israel it is lauded as "patriotic". 

 Do you see no discrepancy in the way Jews define the terms "racism" and "bigotry" shown here?


----------



## holston

proudveteran06 said:


> " Palestine" does not exist and never did
> Why didn't they accept those " borders" prior to 1967 ?
> Abbas knows that Israel isn't going to agree to " Right of Return" which will eventually annex Israel to the Palestinian State
> Exactly what are the Palestinians doing to " negotiate?"
> 
> 
> *Finally; FUCK.  YOU.    !!  *



 Typical Hasbaratic argument.


----------



## toastman

holston said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> " Palestine" does not exist and never did
> Why didn't they accept those " borders" prior to 1967 ?
> Abbas knows that Israel isn't going to agree to " Right of Return" which will eventually annex Israel to the Palestinian State
> Exactly what are the Palestinians doing to " negotiate?"
> 
> 
> *Finally; FUCK.  YOU.    !!  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Hasbaratic argument.
Click to expand...


Typical anti Zionist response where the pro Palestinian has no argument


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> " Palestine" does not exist and never did
> Why didn't they accept those " borders" prior to 1967 ?
> Abbas knows that Israel isn't going to agree to " Right of Return" which will eventually annex Israel to the Palestinian State
> Exactly what are the Palestinians doing to " negotiate?"
> 
> 
> Finally; FUCK.  YOU.    !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Hasbaratic argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical anti Zionist response where the pro Palestinian has no argument
Click to expand...


Slam-Dunk...


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> holston said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Hasbaratic argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical anti Zionist response where the pro Palestinian has no argument
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Slam-Dunk...
Click to expand...



To wankers.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical anti Zionist response where the pro Palestinian has no argument
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slam-Dunk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To wankers.
Click to expand...


Did you first emigrate to England from Iran, and then on to America?


----------



## montelatici

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slam-Dunk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To wankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you first emigrate to England from Iran, and then on to America?
Click to expand...


So, now I am Iranian.  Well, the Persians represent a great civilization.


----------



## GISMYS

IRAN'S fate is sealed,Bible prophecy says iran,syria and other muslim nations backed by Russia will try to destroy tiny ISRAEL but GOD WILL DEFEAT AND VANQUISH THEM!!! PTL.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> To wankers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you first emigrate to England from Iran, and then on to America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, now I am Iranian.  Well, the Persians represent a great civilization.
Click to expand...


Why you are part of the Iranian gang here.  However, many Persians will say they come from Persia when asked where they came from.  Maybe they don't want to say if they have Arab roots because the Arabs did invade Persia.  However, as we all know, things are not that great in Iran, and have not been seen the crazies took over.  They is the reason many Iranians hightailed it to get away from those crazies, and I have a feeling you did too.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Abbas Must Be Stopped*
* The orchestrator of the terror onslaught in Israel. *
October 9, 2015
Caroline Glick





All the Palestinian terrorist attacks that have been carried out in recent weeks share one common feature. All the terrorists believe that by attacking Jews they are protecting the Temple Mount from destruction.

And why shouldn’t they believe this obscenity? Everywhere they go, every time they turn on their televisions, read the paper, go to school or the mosque they are told that the Jews are destroying al-Aksa Mosque. Al-Aksa, they are told, is in danger. They must take up arms to defend it from the Jews, whatever the cost.

One man stands at the center of this blood libel. The man who propagates this murderous lie and orchestrates the death and mayhem that is its bloody harvest is none other than the West’s favorite Palestinian moderate: PLO chief and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

On September 16 Abbas gave a speech. It was broadcast on PA television and posted on his Facebook page. In it, he incited the Palestinians to kill Jews. In his words, “Al-Aksa Mosque is ours.

They [the Jews] have no right to desecrate it with their filthy feet. We won’t allow them to do so and we will do everything in our power to defend Jerusalem.”

Abbas added, “We bless every drop of blood spilled for Jerusalem. This is clean and pure blood, blood that was spilled for God. It is Allah’s will that every martyr will go to heaven and every wounded [terrorist] will receive God’s reward.”

...

In his letter, Netanyahu should say that in keeping with the status quo, which protects the rights of members of all religions to freely enter the Temple Mount, so he commits the government to protect the rights of all believers of all religions to ascend the Mount.

The Palestinian terrorist onslaught now raging against us is not spontaneous. Abbas has incited it and is directing it. To stop this assault, Israel must finally take action against Abbas and his machinery of war. Anything less can bring us nothing more than a temporary respite in the carnage that Abbas will be free to end whenever he wishes.

Abbas Must Be Stopped


----------



## Roudy

Israel's annexation of the West Bank getting closer by the day.  Praise be to the Allah.


----------



## fanger




----------



## Roudy




----------



## American_Jihad




----------



## fanger




----------



## Indeependent

fanger said:


>


Run out of fabricated facts?


----------



## fanger

Do fabricated facts win over invented Lies?


----------



## Penelope

American_Jihad said:


>



Of course reading your signature, seems more like your very double minded. You back Israel but most of them are secular Jews who do not like the Orthodox jews any more than the Palestinians. ACLU, ADA both Jewish,  3 jews on supreme court, also most jews vote for Democrats.    A tiny hypocritical don't you think. How do you feel about the gay parade Israel puts on every year?


----------



## Indeependent

fanger said:


> Do fabricated facts win over invented Lies?


Getting frustrated that virtually every major power is kicking Muslim butt at the moment?


----------



## Indeependent

Penelope said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course reading your signature, seems more like your very double minded. You back Israel but most of them are secular Jews who do not like the Orthodox jews any more than the Palestinians. ACLU, ADA both Jewish,  3 jews on supreme court, also most jews vote for Democrats.    A tiny hypocritical don't you think. How do you feel about the gay parade Israel puts on every year?
Click to expand...

Gay Parade vs Murder?


----------



## Penelope

Indeependent said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course reading your signature, seems more like your very double minded. You back Israel but most of them are secular Jews who do not like the Orthodox jews any more than the Palestinians. ACLU, ADA both Jewish,  3 jews on supreme court, also most jews vote for Democrats.    A tiny hypocritical don't you think. How do you feel about the gay parade Israel puts on every year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gay Parade vs Murder?
Click to expand...


I know, they do both.


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> Getting frustrated that virtually every major power is kicking Muslim butt at the moment?


*Indy*......_may I call you *Indy*?_......are you frustrated, after almost 50 years, every _(not virtually, but every)_ major power still refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to that land?


----------



## Indeependent

Penelope said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course reading your signature, seems more like your very double minded. You back Israel but most of them are secular Jews who do not like the Orthodox jews any more than the Palestinians. ACLU, ADA both Jewish,  3 jews on supreme court, also most jews vote for Democrats.    A tiny hypocritical don't you think. How do you feel about the gay parade Israel puts on every year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gay Parade vs Murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know, they do both.
Click to expand...

Frustrated much seeing your fellow ragheads gettings their butts kicked?


----------



## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting frustrated that virtually every major power is kicking Muslim butt at the moment?
> 
> 
> 
> *Indy*......_may I call you *Indy*?_......are you frustrated, after almost 50 years, every _(not virtually, but every)_ major power still refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to that land?
Click to expand...

Nope; we are hated for holding higher moral standards.


----------



## Penelope

Indeependent said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course reading your signature, seems more like your very double minded. You back Israel but most of them are secular Jews who do not like the Orthodox jews any more than the Palestinians. ACLU, ADA both Jewish,  3 jews on supreme court, also most jews vote for Democrats.    A tiny hypocritical don't you think. How do you feel about the gay parade Israel puts on every year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gay Parade vs Murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know, they do both.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frustrated much seeing your fellow ragheads gettings their butts kicked?
Click to expand...


Actually yes I am. After last year act of grave terrorism by people with top notch weapons against those with fire crackers, its is tiresome to watch the genocide, and I'm not Palestinian.  Yet their war crimes go unpunished.


----------



## Penelope

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting frustrated that virtually every major power is kicking Muslim butt at the moment?
> 
> 
> 
> *Indy*......_may I call you *Indy*?_......are you frustrated, after almost 50 years, every _(not virtually, but every)_ major power still refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope; we are hated for holding higher moral standards.
Click to expand...


You have standards. That is a laugh.


----------



## Billo_Really

American_Jihad said:


> *Abbas Must Be Stopped*
> * The orchestrator of the terror onslaught in Israel. *
> October 9, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the Palestinian terrorist attacks that have been carried out in recent weeks share one common feature. All the terrorists believe that by attacking Jews they are protecting the Temple Mount from destruction.
> 
> And why shouldn’t they believe this obscenity? Everywhere they go, every time they turn on their televisions, read the paper, go to school or the mosque they are told that the Jews are destroying al-Aksa Mosque. Al-Aksa, they are told, is in danger. They must take up arms to defend it from the Jews, whatever the cost.
> 
> One man stands at the center of this blood libel. The man who propagates this murderous lie and orchestrates the death and mayhem that is its bloody harvest is none other than the West’s favorite Palestinian moderate: PLO chief and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> On September 16 Abbas gave a speech. It was broadcast on PA television and posted on his Facebook page. In it, he incited the Palestinians to kill Jews. In his words, “Al-Aksa Mosque is ours.
> 
> They [the Jews] have no right to desecrate it with their filthy feet. We won’t allow them to do so and we will do everything in our power to defend Jerusalem.”
> 
> Abbas added, “We bless every drop of blood spilled for Jerusalem. This is clean and pure blood, blood that was spilled for God. It is Allah’s will that every martyr will go to heaven and every wounded [terrorist] will receive God’s reward.”
> 
> ...
> 
> In his letter, Netanyahu should say that in keeping with the status quo, which protects the rights of members of all religions to freely enter the Temple Mount, so he commits the government to protect the rights of all believers of all religions to ascend the Mount.
> 
> The Palestinian terrorist onslaught now raging against us is not spontaneous. Abbas has incited it and is directing it. To stop this assault, Israel must finally take action against Abbas and his machinery of war. Anything less can bring us nothing more than a temporary respite in the carnage that Abbas will be free to end whenever he wishes.
> 
> Abbas Must Be Stopped


End the occupation and there won't be any onslaught.

Netanfuckyou, is the one who must be stopped.

*Killing Fields: Are Israeli Forces Preparing For Another Genocidal Massacre of Palestinians?*​
_What Netanyahu will not admit publicly, is that Israeli is running a full-blown, militarized colonial police state, and its heavy-handed treatment and over-the-top force is routinely used against all Palestinians, and also against any non-Jewish protesters, media or bystanders._​__

The IDF sniper was not threatened, nor was he the target of the stone throwing kid, but he shot the kid anyway.

That's why they riot!


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> Nope; we are hated for holding higher moral standards.


Moral standards?

You just got done calling someone a _*"raghead"!*_

Where's the morality in that?


----------



## Roudy

fanger said:


>


----------



## fanger

Roudy said:


> fanger said:
Click to expand...

Very good rop/dey you now have my permission to go jerk off in the corner


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abbas Must Be Stopped*
> * The orchestrator of the terror onslaught in Israel. *
> October 9, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the Palestinian terrorist attacks that have been carried out in recent weeks share one common feature. All the terrorists believe that by attacking Jews they are protecting the Temple Mount from destruction.
> 
> And why shouldn’t they believe this obscenity? Everywhere they go, every time they turn on their televisions, read the paper, go to school or the mosque they are told that the Jews are destroying al-Aksa Mosque. Al-Aksa, they are told, is in danger. They must take up arms to defend it from the Jews, whatever the cost.
> 
> One man stands at the center of this blood libel. The man who propagates this murderous lie and orchestrates the death and mayhem that is its bloody harvest is none other than the West’s favorite Palestinian moderate: PLO chief and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> On September 16 Abbas gave a speech. It was broadcast on PA television and posted on his Facebook page. In it, he incited the Palestinians to kill Jews. In his words, “Al-Aksa Mosque is ours.
> 
> They [the Jews] have no right to desecrate it with their filthy feet. We won’t allow them to do so and we will do everything in our power to defend Jerusalem.”
> 
> Abbas added, “We bless every drop of blood spilled for Jerusalem. This is clean and pure blood, blood that was spilled for God. It is Allah’s will that every martyr will go to heaven and every wounded [terrorist] will receive God’s reward.”
> 
> ...
> 
> In his letter, Netanyahu should say that in keeping with the status quo, which protects the rights of members of all religions to freely enter the Temple Mount, so he commits the government to protect the rights of all believers of all religions to ascend the Mount.
> 
> The Palestinian terrorist onslaught now raging against us is not spontaneous. Abbas has incited it and is directing it. To stop this assault, Israel must finally take action against Abbas and his machinery of war. Anything less can bring us nothing more than a temporary respite in the carnage that Abbas will be free to end whenever he wishes.
> 
> Abbas Must Be Stopped
> 
> 
> 
> End the occupation and there won't be any onslaught.
> 
> Netanfuckyou, is the one who must be stopped.
> 
> *Killing Fields: Are Israeli Forces Preparing For Another Genocidal Massacre of Palestinians?*​
> _What Netanyahu will not admit publicly, is that Israeli is running a full-blown, militarized colonial police state, and its heavy-handed treatment and over-the-top force is routinely used against all Palestinians, and also against any non-Jewish protesters, media or bystanders._​__
> 
> The IDF sniper was not threatened, nor was he the target of the stone throwing kid, but he shot the kid anyway.
> 
> That's why they riot!
Click to expand...







"RF newsfuckyuou"  Ha ha ha.  Bigmouth never has a legit source.


----------



## Roudy

fanger said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very good rop/dey you now have my permission to go jerk off in the corner
Click to expand...


Said the guy who jerks off to Israel's destruction five times a day, before, during, and after his "namaz" prayers.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope; we are hated for holding higher moral standards.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral standards?
> 
> You just got done calling someone a _*"raghead"!*_
> 
> Where's the morality in that?
Click to expand...

Yessir.  Paleshitians are among the most morally depraved savages humankind has ever seen.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> "RF newsfuckyuou"  Ha ha ha.  Bigmouth never has a legit source.



And you never have a legit rebuttal.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Yessir.  Paleshitians are among the most morally depraved savages humankind has ever seen.




You're a bigger savage than they are.


----------



## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope; we are hated for holding higher moral standards.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral standards?
> 
> You just got done calling someone a _*"raghead"!*_
> 
> Where's the morality in that?
Click to expand...

We haven't emigrated to every nation in Europe, gone on welfare and food stamps, burned cities and threatened to kill the locals if they don't conform to our religion.
You're such an asshole.


----------



## Penelope

Billo_Really said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abbas Must Be Stopped*
> * The orchestrator of the terror onslaught in Israel. *
> October 9, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the Palestinian terrorist attacks that have been carried out in recent weeks share one common feature. All the terrorists believe that by attacking Jews they are protecting the Temple Mount from destruction.
> 
> And why shouldn’t they believe this obscenity? Everywhere they go, every time they turn on their televisions, read the paper, go to school or the mosque they are told that the Jews are destroying al-Aksa Mosque. Al-Aksa, they are told, is in danger. They must take up arms to defend it from the Jews, whatever the cost.
> 
> One man stands at the center of this blood libel. The man who propagates this murderous lie and orchestrates the death and mayhem that is its bloody harvest is none other than the West’s favorite Palestinian moderate: PLO chief and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> On September 16 Abbas gave a speech. It was broadcast on PA television and posted on his Facebook page. In it, he incited the Palestinians to kill Jews. In his words, “Al-Aksa Mosque is ours.
> 
> They [the Jews] have no right to desecrate it with their filthy feet. We won’t allow them to do so and we will do everything in our power to defend Jerusalem.”
> 
> Abbas added, “We bless every drop of blood spilled for Jerusalem. This is clean and pure blood, blood that was spilled for God. It is Allah’s will that every martyr will go to heaven and every wounded [terrorist] will receive God’s reward.”
> 
> ...
> 
> In his letter, Netanyahu should say that in keeping with the status quo, which protects the rights of members of all religions to freely enter the Temple Mount, so he commits the government to protect the rights of all believers of all religions to ascend the Mount.
> 
> The Palestinian terrorist onslaught now raging against us is not spontaneous. Abbas has incited it and is directing it. To stop this assault, Israel must finally take action against Abbas and his machinery of war. Anything less can bring us nothing more than a temporary respite in the carnage that Abbas will be free to end whenever he wishes.
> 
> Abbas Must Be Stopped
> 
> 
> 
> End the occupation and there won't be any onslaught.
> 
> Netanfuckyou, is the one who must be stopped.
> 
> *Killing Fields: Are Israeli Forces Preparing For Another Genocidal Massacre of Palestinians?*​
> _What Netanyahu will not admit publicly, is that Israeli is running a full-blown, militarized colonial police state, and its heavy-handed treatment and over-the-top force is routinely used against all Palestinians, and also against any non-Jewish protesters, media or bystanders._​__
> 
> The IDF sniper was not threatened, nor was he the target of the stone throwing kid, but he shot the kid anyway.
> 
> That's why they riot!
Click to expand...


Excellent video. they use Palestinians for rifle practice. Its crazy how they feel free to just shoot at someone.  I wish someone who spray PM bibi's house with that skunk spray, see how he likes it.


----------



## RoccoR

Roudy,  et al,

I don't think that Israel either wants or would accept the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  I don't think that any of the adjacent nations want either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.



Roudy said:


> Israel's annexation of the West Bank getting closer by the day.  Praise be to the Allah.


*(REFERENCE)*

*Population: West Bank*
2,731,052

_note: _

approximately 341,400 Israeli settlers live in the West Bank (2012);
approximately 196,400 Israeli settlers live in East Jerusalem (2011)
*Population:  State of Israel*
8,049,314 (includes populations of the Golan Heights of Golan Sub-District and East Jerusalem, which was annexed by Israel after 1967) (July 2014 est.)

_note:_

approximately 19,400 Israeli settlers live in the Golan Heights;
approximately 200,000 Israeli settlers live in East Jerusalem (2013) (July 2015 est.)
*(COMMENT)*

The population of Palestine is about ≈ one-third that of Israel.  To put that in perspective, that would be like the US absorbing 100+ million people by comparison.  Given that the the West Bank cannot sustain itself yet, and has ≈ 38.8% Unemployment Rate _(Male: 34.5% Female: 62.2%  Ages 18-24)_.  By comparison, Israel has and an Unemployment Rate of 12.1% _(Male: 11.6%   Female:  12.7%   Ages 18-24)_.  No other country in the Region would consider accepting that many unemployed on their social welfare system, let alone Israel.  Regionally, the Unemployment Rates look like this for the same age group:

Lebanon:

_total: 16.8%
male: 14.6%
female: 22.3% (2009 est.)_​Jordan:

_total: 29.3%
male: 25.2%
female: 48.8% (2012 est.)_​Egypt:

_total: 24.8%
male: 14.7%
female: 54.1% (2010 est.)_​Saudi Arabia:

_total: 28.3%
male: 20.8%
female: 54.4% (2012 est.)_​
As you can see, none of the Middle Eastern Nations have the economic strength to absorb that may people on that level of unemployment.  The thought that Israel would want to purposely annex the West Bank is just not a reasonable.  This is not to mention the security problems that come along with them. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

fanger said:


> Do fabricated facts win over invented Lies?





 You should know seeing as you post both.................


----------



## Phoenall

Penelope said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abbas Must Be Stopped*
> * The orchestrator of the terror onslaught in Israel. *
> October 9, 2015
> Caroline Glick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the Palestinian terrorist attacks that have been carried out in recent weeks share one common feature. All the terrorists believe that by attacking Jews they are protecting the Temple Mount from destruction.
> 
> And why shouldn’t they believe this obscenity? Everywhere they go, every time they turn on their televisions, read the paper, go to school or the mosque they are told that the Jews are destroying al-Aksa Mosque. Al-Aksa, they are told, is in danger. They must take up arms to defend it from the Jews, whatever the cost.
> 
> One man stands at the center of this blood libel. The man who propagates this murderous lie and orchestrates the death and mayhem that is its bloody harvest is none other than the West’s favorite Palestinian moderate: PLO chief and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> On September 16 Abbas gave a speech. It was broadcast on PA television and posted on his Facebook page. In it, he incited the Palestinians to kill Jews. In his words, “Al-Aksa Mosque is ours.
> 
> They [the Jews] have no right to desecrate it with their filthy feet. We won’t allow them to do so and we will do everything in our power to defend Jerusalem.”
> 
> Abbas added, “We bless every drop of blood spilled for Jerusalem. This is clean and pure blood, blood that was spilled for God. It is Allah’s will that every martyr will go to heaven and every wounded [terrorist] will receive God’s reward.”
> 
> ...
> 
> In his letter, Netanyahu should say that in keeping with the status quo, which protects the rights of members of all religions to freely enter the Temple Mount, so he commits the government to protect the rights of all believers of all religions to ascend the Mount.
> 
> The Palestinian terrorist onslaught now raging against us is not spontaneous. Abbas has incited it and is directing it. To stop this assault, Israel must finally take action against Abbas and his machinery of war. Anything less can bring us nothing more than a temporary respite in the carnage that Abbas will be free to end whenever he wishes.
> 
> Abbas Must Be Stopped
> 
> 
> 
> End the occupation and there won't be any onslaught.
> 
> Netanfuckyou, is the one who must be stopped.
> 
> *Killing Fields: Are Israeli Forces Preparing For Another Genocidal Massacre of Palestinians?*​
> _What Netanyahu will not admit publicly, is that Israeli is running a full-blown, militarized colonial police state, and its heavy-handed treatment and over-the-top force is routinely used against all Palestinians, and also against any non-Jewish protesters, media or bystanders._​__
> 
> The IDF sniper was not threatened, nor was he the target of the stone throwing kid, but he shot the kid anyway.
> 
> That's why they riot!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent video. they use Palestinians for rifle practice. Its crazy how they feel free to just shoot at someone.  I wish someone who spray PM bibi's house with that skunk spray, see how he likes it.
Click to expand...






 If they did there would a lot fewer Palestinians walking the streets of Jerusalem.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yessir.  Paleshitians are among the most morally depraved savages humankind has ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a bigger savage than they are.
Click to expand...


Tissue?


----------



## Roudy

RoccoR said:


> Roudy,  et al,
> 
> I don't think that Israel either wants or would accept the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  I don't think that any of the adjacent nations want either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's annexation of the West Bank getting closer by the day.  Praise be to the Allah.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> *Population: West Bank*
> 2,731,052
> 
> _note: _
> 
> approximately 341,400 Israeli settlers live in the West Bank (2012);
> approximately 196,400 Israeli settlers live in East Jerusalem (2011)
> *Population:  State of Israel*
> 8,049,314 (includes populations of the Golan Heights of Golan Sub-District and East Jerusalem, which was annexed by Israel after 1967) (July 2014 est.)
> 
> _note:_
> 
> approximately 19,400 Israeli settlers live in the Golan Heights;
> approximately 200,000 Israeli settlers live in East Jerusalem (2013) (July 2015 est.)
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The population of Palestine is about ≈ one-third that of Israel.  To put that in perspective, that would be like the US absorbing 100+ million people by comparison.  Given that the the West Bank cannot sustain itself yet, and has ≈ 38.8% Unemployment Rate _(Male: 34.5% Female: 62.2%  Ages 18-24)_.  By comparison, Israel has and an Unemployment Rate of 12.1% _(Male: 11.6%   Female:  12.7%   Ages 18-24)_.  No other country in the Region would consider accepting that many unemployed on their social welfare system, let alone Israel.  Regionally, the Unemployment Rates look like this for the same age group:
> 
> Lebanon:
> 
> _total: 16.8%
> male: 14.6%
> female: 22.3% (2009 est.)_​Jordan:
> 
> _total: 29.3%
> male: 25.2%
> female: 48.8% (2012 est.)_​Egypt:
> 
> _total: 24.8%
> male: 14.7%
> female: 54.1% (2010 est.)_​Saudi Arabia:
> 
> _total: 28.3%
> male: 20.8%
> female: 54.4% (2012 est.)_​
> As you can see, none of the Middle Eastern Nations have the economic strength to absorb that may people on that level of unemployment.  The thought that Israel would want to purposely annex the West Bank is just not a reasonable.  This is not to mention the security problems that come along with them.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


It will take time but it will happen.


----------



## Roudy

Indeependent said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course reading your signature, seems more like your very double minded. You back Israel but most of them are secular Jews who do not like the Orthodox jews any more than the Palestinians. ACLU, ADA both Jewish,  3 jews on supreme court, also most jews vote for Democrats.    A tiny hypocritical don't you think. How do you feel about the gay parade Israel puts on every year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gay Parade vs Murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know, they do both.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frustrated much seeing your fellow ragheads gettings their butts kicked?
Click to expand...


70 years of Muslims doing everything they can do destroy the Jewish state and still coming up empty.  It's just one victory parade after another for the Muslims, over rubble, that is.


----------



## montelatici

The Europeans arrived in current day South Africa in 1487.  Rhodes and his "pioneers" arrived in what was once called Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) in 1890.  It takes between one and five centuries to expel European settlers.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Desperado said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Get Used to It: Israel Is Here to Stay*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to Henry Kissinger
> 
> In 10 years, there will be no more Israel: Kissinger
> 
> Davids Sling; Is It Broken?
> 
> Cindy Adams from the New York Post insisted: Reported to me, Henry Kissinger has stated - and I quote the statement word for word: In 10 years, there will be no more Israel
Click to expand...


One more reason why there will never be " Right of Return"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

TakeAStepBack said:


> I have no vested interest in Israel. Stay, go, fuck off. It means less than nothing to me. I just see a lot of "Yay! Israel!!" threads around here. So ask, who cares?




FUCK OFF IF YOU CAN FIND IT !!  Obviously you DO care, you PRICK otherwise you wouldn't have gotten so angry !!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only by those who conflate the two so that they can play the anti Semite card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all-----thruout jewish literature for THOUSANDS OF YEARS-----the term   ISRAEL    or   CHILDREN OF ISRAEL    is used to describe the jewish people ----even more than is   the word  "JEWS"   (yehudim)      On official papers and captions   ---etc etc      the much used word is   "ISRAEL"       sometimes  "HOUSE OF ISRAEL"   bet yisrael"       How did you get so utterly ignorant   Tinnie  ?        your posts suggest you never read much in your life other than islamo nazi pig propaganda
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a nation of people not a piece of land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a nation of people who were dispossessed of that which  THE NATION considers  "holy land"     and has do considered it for more than 3000 years     The land to which you refer had been a place to which to "return"  during all that time     For someone who makes an issue of WHO LIVED WHERE for a few years        as being the ETERNAL OWNERS      you have a very trivializing approach to land which jews consider "holy"      If someone invaded  arabia and dispossessed the plave of all muslims-----and muslims had an ambition to  RETURN to that land "holy" to them ------would you say    "YOU ARE A NATION--NOT A PIECE OF LAND YOU NAZI DOGS"?
> 
> Another issue---of course is the fact of  oppression in christian and muslim lands     While you may like the idea of laws rendering jewish orphans the sex slave of the local imam-----my mother-in-law came out of that experience   "never wanting to see another muslim again"         maybe she was just overly touchy--------may you and yours be on the receiving end of those laws you so cherish----or comparable ones
> 
> I do hope that the Hindus retain control of the Ganges River---and Benares----it is important to them      Unlike you ---I am content to leave mecca to the muslims and not spit in their faces and say  "ARE YOU A PIECE OF LAND"???
Click to expand...


" Palestinians" are a made up people not a piece of land ( and never will be)


----------



## montelatici

How can people be "made up"?  They were there long before the European Jews invaded Palestine.


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> We haven't emigrated to every nation in Europe,


But you did migrate to this one. 



Indeependent said:


> gone on welfare and food stamps,


You would if you were:

- quarantined to a certain area, with roadblocks and checkpoints restricting your freedom of movement and effectively preventing you from having gainful employment.

- or a fisherman, who got shot at, every time you went out to fish.

- or a farmer, who got shot at, every time you tended to your fields.​


Indeependent said:


> burned cities and threatened to kill the locals if they don't conform to our religion.


You just reduced them to rubble with 2000 pound bombs, that took out entire neighborhoods. 

And yes you did threaten the locals, by dropping leaflets telling them they were about to be bombed.

And then, not long after that, you killed the locals. 



Indeependent said:


> You're such an asshole.


And you're a pussy and a liar!


----------



## Billo_Really

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> " Palestinians" are a made up people not a piece of land ( and never will be)


And you just keep making up bullshit arguments no one believes.


----------



## montelatici

The Battle of Algiers mirrors much of what is going on in Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Tissue?



Why does your tissue stand up on its own?

And why is it as hard as a board?

Is that a coffee stain?


----------



## docmauser1

montelatici said:


> The Battle of Algiers mirrors much of what is going on in Israel.


Are the algerians settlers and squater from the hood, like palistanians too?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> How can people be "made up"?  They were there long before the European Jews invaded Palestine.






 NOPE as they arrived after the European Jews invited by the Ottomans, just look at the Ottoman census returns


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> How can people be "made up"?  They were there long before the European Jews invaded Palestine.






 NOPE as they arrived after the European Jews invited by the Ottomans, just look at the Ottoman census returns


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> We haven't emigrated to every nation in Europe,
> 
> 
> 
> But you did migrate to this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> gone on welfare and food stamps,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would if you were:
> 
> - quarantined to a certain area, with roadblocks and checkpoints restricting your freedom of movement and effectively preventing you from having gainful employment.
> 
> - or a fisherman, who got shot at, every time you went out to fish.
> 
> - or a farmer, who got shot at, every time you tended to your fields.​
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> burned cities and threatened to kill the locals if they don't conform to our religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just reduced them to rubble with 2000 pound bombs, that took out entire neighborhoods.
> 
> And yes you did threaten the locals, by dropping leaflets telling them they were about to be bombed.
> 
> And then, not long after that, you killed the locals.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're such an asshole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you're a pussy and a liar!
Click to expand...





 Just as you did

 Just as you would



Still waiting for you to prove that they were farmers and not terrorists, and fishermen not weapons smugglers 

 How would you deal with people who fire illegal weapons at your children then. And still waiting for you to prove these 2000lb bombs you claim were used. Modern bombs of 2000lb's would be as devastating as the first nuclear bombs used

 As only a civilised nation would do to minimise the civilian casualties

No that was hamas that refused to allow them to leave and forced them to be human shields


And you are a JEW HATING NAZI


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> " Palestinians" are a made up people not a piece of land ( and never will be)
> 
> 
> 
> And you just keep making up bullshit arguments no one believes.
Click to expand...






 No that would be you as you have failed to prove even one of your claims because you are so consumed with your Jew hatred


----------



## flacaltenn

*Moderation Message:*

*Well that was a fun skirmish. Last 4 pages were about 14 different topics. *
*WAAAY too many violations to salvage the thread. *

*Will be reviewed for GROSS violations.. *


*FCT*


----------



## flacaltenn

Slight editorial comment -- Ever occur to you I/P regulars to LEAD and innovate and find some common ground? 
Work with the existing realities? Threads always seem to end up 200 years or more in the past..


----------

