# Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy



## Dante (Jul 14, 2010)

*Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag. 

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.


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## R.C. Christian (Jul 14, 2010)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
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> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
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> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.



Oh that is just brilliant, a confederacy vs. taliban analogy, wow, you have really outdone yourself. I guess the union should have planned better at Antietam.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 14, 2010)

Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle.  You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies.  Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.


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## Dante (Jul 14, 2010)

R.C. Christian said:


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Not an analogy. More of a comparison. You may draw the conclusions you want, but I did not intend to establish similarity by analogy.


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## random3434 (Jul 14, 2010)

Massacre At Wounded Knee, 1890

Native American Atrocities - The Sand Creek Massacre


Indian Massacre


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## xotoxi (Jul 14, 2010)

Hiroshima


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## JBeukema (Jul 14, 2010)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
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> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
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> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.


I get the distinct impression that you're an idiot


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle.  You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies.  Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.



British-Americans? 

I think George Washington and  John Adams settled that they were not British citizens, but American citizens. 


and as far as the Crown was concerned, the rebels were traitors. Some were hanged as such.  you would need to say the rebels lost the war and their like minded folk were flying an American rebel flag in order to make a fair comparison. but keep trying. I'm sure you'll fall upon something -- sooner or later. 


I see the dopes from the USMB peanut gallery have thanked you.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

JBeukema said:


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The difference is, I have been inoculated from the idiot virus that affects those who post here often. 

you cannot address the thread topic?


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Echo Zulu said:


> Massacre At Wounded Knee, 1890
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> Native American Atrocities - The Sand Creek Massacre
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I have no idea what you and xotoxi are trying to say.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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> > Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle.  You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies.  Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.
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The same government that was born from the declaration:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Less than 100 years later made the case, through war, that the right of the people to institute new government did not exist.

So you see, if those who fly Confederate flags are traitors then the only logical conclusion is that anybody flying Old Glory is also a traitor.


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## Article 15 (Jul 15, 2010)

This thread will get ugly.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Article 15 said:


> This thread will get ugly.



Hey!  I resemble that remark.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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_sigh_

spare me the declaration nonsense, and your premise concerning the American Civil War is flawed. You are hiding the arguments of some of the states behind 'The right of the people' -- of the United States of America. Using your flawed logic, the founding fathers believed anyone could opt out at any time.

now, before we get too far  this early on...

here is the OP





Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
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> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
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> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.



The British did indeed consider the rebels traitors and so did many of the colonists who were tories. As a matter of fact, the founding fathers knew they were committing treason. Their acts, like those of Benedict Arnold, went from disagreements to outright treason. And in both cases I understand the arguments. 

You cannot credibly compare cases like you have attempted to do on 2 occasions unless you ignore the basic premises. You are making up your own argument and trying to say it is mine. 

Americans who fly the Confederate Flag, are using a symbol of an enemy within, of the United States of America.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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So apparently the colonies in the Continental Congress were also hiding behind "The right of the people," correct?  Yes, some of the founding fathers _did_ believe that the states could opt out at any time.

The founders didn't believe they were committing treason whatsoever.  They believed that the right of self-government was a natural right, and therefore above the law of any king.

The basic premise in both the Revolutionary and Civil War were the same.  A group of states declaring their independence from a central government.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

*Article II, Section 2: *The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States...*he shall have power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States,* except in Cases of Impeachment.

President of the United States, Andrew Johnson, granted a general amnesty granted after the American Civil War (1861-April 9, 1865). Why? For political offenses like treason? To whom is amnesty granted? Traitors?

Political offenses like treason?


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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The founders knew they were committing treason. They were loyal subjects of the Crown trying to determine the limits of self government. They tried this all within the confines of staying as far away from treason as they could. They often met in secrecy. Of course we say they fought for their freedom. But the fight was a treasonous act from the British perspective. . American Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The basic premise only holds if one wins. To the victor goes the spoils. The British signed a deal and gave property to the new USA. A legal recognition that is was somehow theirs. 



> The peace treaty with Britain, known as *the Treaty of Paris, gave the U.S. all land east of the Mississippi River and south of the Great Lakes*, though not including Florida (On September 3, 1783, Britain entered into a separate agreement with Spain under which Britain ceded Florida back to Spain.). The Native American nations actually living in this region were not a party to this treaty and did not recognize it until they were defeated militarily by the United States. Issues regarding boundaries and debts were not resolved until the Jay Treaty of 1795.[89]



The American Civil War was lost by the rebel traitors. They were granted and they accepted, pardons and amnesty, a recognition of political crimes. 

The idea that states could secede without the approval of all or the majority of the states that formed the Union was never supported in signed documents as far as I know. [note]: I have been shown otherwise: "The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession."

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now we do have this stuff: U.S. Constitution and this: Secession in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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So your point of view basically boils down to who has the bigger guns?  If you can kill more of their people than they kill of yours then you have the right to secede?


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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Might makes right, my friend. It's why the Right Wingers love their guns so much- it keeps them from needing actual points or having to argue intelligently.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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"So your point of view basically boils down to who has the bigger guns?"
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In winning a war, yes, but that is not what the thread is about.*

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If you can kill more of their people than they kill of yours then you have the right to secede?

*I never said that.*

I linked to what the Supreme Court has ruled, and I linked to other things. You are entitled to opinions and interpretations, but you are not entitled to putting words into my mouth or being able to easily taking things off topic with side arguments that avoid the basic premise of the OP.

The President granted a general amnesty. Why? For what? The South accepted the amnesty. Ideals and intellectual arguments are a poor substitute for the facts of living in the real world, where arguments are often treated as what they are -- words, just words. 

The Confederacy was made up of internal enemies of the United States. They took up arms against the United States. That is treason. The colonists took up arms against the Crown. That was also at the time a treasonous act. 


context is everything

An American flying a colonial rebel flag in Britain, is not the same as an American flying the Confederate flag in America. The British acknowledged the independence of the Americans. Americans are not British citizens. The American flag is not hostile to Britain. The British recognized the right of American independence. We ceased being enemies. But the act of independence transcended being traitorous because Britain agreed with the independence.  

What if an American wants to fly the NAZI flag? To me it is similar to an American flying a rebel flag. The Nazis and the Confederacy were enemies of the USA. Onje within, the other outside. Their symbols represent hostility towards the permanent union that created the USA. America never recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate independent government and the flag of the Confederacy remains a hostile symbol.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

JBeukema said:


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WTF r u talking about?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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So then is it your position that one can only be a traitor if one loses one's war for independence?  Would the Confederates be traitors had they somehow won the Civil War?

And that's not putting words in your mouth.  That's asking a question.


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> I linked to what the Supreme Court has ruled


An unconstitutional ruling. SCOTUS can't overrule the letter of the Constitution.


Of course the Fed says the Fed alone can determine the limits of the Fed's power and that the Fed is all-powerful.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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If the Confederates won they would be independent. Then we would not have had to grant them amnesty. We would have most likely acknowledged their independence and they would have ceased being an enemy. Amnesty was granted for the political crime of treason, no? 

But I said before, treason is treason. How treason is dealt with is determined by who wins the fight. Benedict Arnold committed treason just as the Confederate Soldiers did. The Confederate soldiers took up arms against the government of the United States and they lost. 

I see those statues and forts and I see the enemy within. Brothers who betrayed a cause.

note: SCOTUS and a successful secession.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

JBeukema said:


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*
The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.* -the wikipedia link


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Dev must be bored


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

JBeukema said:


> Dev must be bored



fuck off nitwit


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> *
> The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional *




The Constitution says otherwise.



> The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor  prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,  or to the people.




That includes the power to sever ties with other member States and the Union.


They have that power until an amendment is passed saying otherwise.


SCOTUS doesn't get to discard the Constitution, as much as they try.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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I see.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

JBeukema said:


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The law of the land says you are stupid. We fought a civil war over this and the courts have ruled on what is constitutional.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> I see.



Principles and aspirations often clash with the real world.

You never addressed the point of amnesty. Why did the President grant amnesty?


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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The words of the Constitution overrule the political rulings of the presidents' lackeys.

Read Woods' _33 Questions_


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

JBeukema said:


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I'm sorry, I thought the Constitution granted the power to rule constitutionality with the court. The Supreme Court in the American System of Government

"The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States..."


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

33 Questions About American History Youre Not Supposed To Ask by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.

 33 Questions About American History Youre Not Supposed To Ask

by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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It doesn't matter why the President granted amnesty.  What matters is the principle itself.  If we accept, as the founders did, that the right to self-government is a natural right, or a god-given right if you're a religious person, then it doesn't matter what a king, president, prime minister, chief of police, or anyone else says.  Our nation was founded on the belief in the natural, or god-given, right to self-government.

My point, all along, has been that it's hypocritical that our government, which was formed under the idea of a natural right to self-government, denied that natural right when a group of states wanted to break away from us.  Now, you can say that treason is in the eye of the beholder, and you'd be right because we can all have our own idea about what constitutes treason, but you can hardly deny that the principle of self-government was denied to the Confederacy by the U.S. government under Abraham Lincoln.

If you accept the natural right to self-government, then you have no reason to brand the Confederates traitors.  If you don't accept the natural right to self-government then I'd say you have to brand the Colonists as traitors.  To say that the Colonists weren't traitors, but that the Confederates were, is gross hypocrisy in my opinion.


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## Old Rocks (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin, Kevin, you idiots lost the bloody war. This is one nation, and shall remain so. It cost the blood of 600,000 to establish that, and the fact that all men are equal. The whole basis of the Confederacy's rebellion was immoral. Justice prevailed, and a much better nation was hammered out on the forge of the Civil War.


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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Woods addresses that in 33 Questions.


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> 33 Questions About American History Youre Not Supposed To Ask by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
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> 33 Questions About American History Youre Not Supposed To Ask
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> by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.




Appeal to Ridicule.


If Woods is wrong, then show how each chapter is wrong.


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## JBeukema (Jul 15, 2010)

Old Rocks said:


> Kevin, Kevin, you idiots lost the bloody war. This is one nation, and shall remain so. It cost the blood of 600,000 to establish that, and the fact that all men are equal. The whole basis of the Confederacy's rebellion was immoral. Justice prevailed, and a much better nation was hammered out on the forge of the Civil War.




bull-fucking-shit.

The North didn't free its own slaves, didn't start the war over slavery, and did nothing to makes blacks equal 'til what, the 1960s?

The Union fought no war over slavery and human rights. If they had, you might have an argument. But they didn't.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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I hear this very clear ["It doesn't matter why the President granted amnesty.  What matters is...if you're a religious person...Our nation was founded on the belief in the natural, or god-given, right to self-government."]  and I weep for you.


Things can often seem to be hypocritical in the absence of nuance and context. (I think you are misusing the term 'hypocritical' here) 
I like this definition:
Hypocrisy 1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially :  the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

There was nothing feigned when an amnesty was granted to the Confederate traitors. The principles on what the United States was founded were not betrayed -- by the Union. 


*We do NOT get to have our own ideas over what treason means.* Treason has a specific meaning. Some treasonous acts can be heroic, while others are cowardly. Some treasonous acts can be principled and yet others can transcend the meanings. We cannot in your words 'all have our own idea about what _constitutes_ treason' *as what legally constitutes treason is laid out in the US Constitution...*

Treason: This word imports a betraying, treachery, or breach of allegiance.

The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence[_sic_] is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.  -http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/t103.htm

*......what constitutes treason here is not open to interpretation. *


I never said treason is in the eye of the beholder. Benedict Arnold or his defenders could claim his acts were not treason, and that would be your 'eye of the beholder'  

The treasonous acts I speak of can later be overlooked by all sides involved depending on how things work out. Both sides agree the act of treason will be overlooked for a greater good. In the examples I gave, Britain ceded territory, and in the other the United States granted an amnesty to the Confederates - for treasonous acts. 

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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

JBeukema said:


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Documents in archives in South Carolina, the state that initiated hostilities, would prove you wrong. 

but How facts backfire - The Boston Globe


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Old Rocks said:


> Kevin, Kevin, you idiots lost the bloody war. This is one nation, and shall remain so. It cost the blood of 600,000 to establish that, and the fact that all men are equal. The whole basis of the Confederacy's rebellion was immoral. Justice prevailed, and a much better nation was hammered out on the forge of the Civil War.



Us "idiots" in Ohio fought for the Union, bud.  We didn't "lose" anything other than our dignity for helping to force the southern states to remain in the Union against their will.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

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Well if you want to bring up the Constitutional definition of treason, then perhaps you should it read it a bit closer.  It says "levying war against them," meaning the individual states.  You see there's only one federal government, so referring to it in the plural makes no sense.  There are, however, many states.  So by that definition, Abraham Lincoln and the U.S. government committed treason in levying war against the southern states.  Especially taking into consideration the fact that Lincoln never acknowledged that they had left the Union, only that they were in a state of rebellion.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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> > Kevin, Kevin, you idiots lost the bloody war. This is one nation, and shall remain so. It cost the blood of 600,000 to establish that, and the fact that all men are equal. The whole basis of the Confederacy's rebellion was immoral. Justice prevailed, and a much better nation was hammered out on the forge of the Civil War.
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You disagree with case law, with the Constitution and with the Union cause in the Civil War. What do you like about America?


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Well if you want to bring up the Constitutional definition of treason, then perhaps you should it read it a bit closer.  It says "levying war against them," meaning the individual states.  You see there's only one federal government, so referring to it in the plural makes no sense.  There are, however, many states.  So by that definition, Abraham Lincoln and the U.S. government committed treason in levying war against the southern states.  Especially taking into consideration the fact that Lincoln never acknowledged that they had left the Union, only that they were in a state of rebellion.



Is this where we take the train off the tracks?

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against _*them,*_ or in adhering to_* their *_Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Rebellion is treason, is it not? An amnesty was granted. The Confederacy betrayed the United States. The Confederacy waged war against the United States.


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## CurveLight (Jul 15, 2010)

R.C. Christian said:


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Do you ever stop sucking dick long enough to think begore you post?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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The purple mountains' majesty.


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## CurveLight (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


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Synonyms:*similarity, likeness, equivalence, parallel, correspondence, correlation, comparison, resemblance, consonance, relation
Synonym for analogy (n) - antonym for analogy (n) - Thesaurus - MSN Encarta


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 15, 2010)

By the way, "Confederates " were Americans. Just thought I'd add, the north killed plenty of Americans from the south, and...?


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

SW2SILVER said:


> By the way, "Confederates " were Americans. Just thought I'd add, the north killed plenty of Americans from the south, and...?



there are plenty of clueless threads you are welcome to play clueless in. 

The Confederacy was an act of treason against the United States. They were granted an amnesty.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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From intellectual in an ivory tower to populist bullshit? I will say it took you longer than most. 

credit where credit is due


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

CurveLight said:


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look up differences with distinctions and then don't bother getting back to me, okay?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

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Just giving a stupid question a fitting answer.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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Stupid question? You appear to be at odds with most of the legal decisions made in America. You have questioned the legality of the very Constitution you try and hide behind. You seem to be agreeing that the Confederacy was right, they just lost the war. The Confederacy waged a war against the United States. 

What about the United States and it's history involving the law and the constitution do you like?


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 15, 2010)

Clueless ? Aren't you high and mighty. It's about traitors? To you, perhaps, not to me. You split hairs, they still were Americans, regardless of whether or not you like their politics or morality. But don&#8217;t let that stop you from being a pompous jerk, do go on.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

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Yes, stupid question, because you're once again confusing America for the U.S. government.  What do I like about the U.S. government?  Not much.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

SW2SILVER said:


> Clueless ? Aren't you high and mighty. It's about traitors? To you, perhaps, not to me. You split hairs, they still were Americans, regardless of whether or not you like their politics or morality. But don&#8217;t let that stop you from being a pompous jerk, do go on.



The more perfect, permanent union that is the United States, is the nation I love -- flaws and all. I consider internal enemies to be traitors.

But the Confederacy was granted an amnesty. Their symbols were not. What they stood for caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of American citizens and others.


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## rdean (Jul 15, 2010)

Did al Qaeda torture their slaves?


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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The Confederate Congress responded to the Battle of Fort Sumter by *formally declaring war on the United  States*  in May 1861  calling it "The War between the Confederate States of America and the United  States  of America".[72]  The Union government never declared war...-The Confederate Congress declared war on the United States

I do not confuse the United States of America with the government of the United States. We live in a representative republic. The government is elected to represent the people. Terrorist sympathizers I know have said they love America but not the US government.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> What do I like about the U.S. government?  Not much.



What US government? The current one alone, or all of them since George Washington and John Adams?


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

rdean said:


> Did al Qaeda torture their slaves?



this thread is not about al qaeda. let the man wriggle out of his own trap.


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## rdean (Jul 15, 2010)

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You know "Terrorist sympathizers"?  Are you one?  I don't know any.  Except maybe you.  'Cuz you hang out with "Terrorist sympathizers".


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

rdean said:


> You know "Terrorist sympathizers"?  Are you one?  I don't know any.  Except maybe you.  'Cuz you hang out with "Terrorist sympathizers".



Yes, I know terrorist sympathizers. They always say they love America but hate the government of the United States. These include native born Americans and foreign born ones. I hang around most anyone. I'm a tolerant man. I do not look to hang around only those who think as I do. Weird conecept, eh?

I even tolerate of stupid people, just look at how I tolerate you?


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

rdean:   stop taking this thread


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## rdean (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > You know "Terrorist sympathizers"?  Are you one?  I don't know any.  Except maybe you.  'Cuz you hang out with "Terrorist sympathizers".
> ...



You tolerate "terrorist sympathizers"?  What about "terrorists"?  Do you tolerate them too?

He said he tolerates "terrorist sympathizers".  Who does that?  

OK, I'll go.  I don't like "terrorist sympathizers".  I don't tolerate them.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

rdean


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.


----------



## CurveLight (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Is that now what you are claiming the OP to be? Wriggle....wriggle....


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Are you trying to imply that I'm a terrorist sympathizer?


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > What do I like about the U.S. government?  Not much.
> ...



The U.S. government has historically done very few things right.  That's the nature of all governments, however, not just the U.S.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Is that now what you are claiming the OP to be? Wriggle....wriggle....



I'll try and make this simple while being consistent. I'll repost what I posted at the start.

Not an analogy. More of a comparison. You may draw the conclusions you want, but I did not intend to establish similarity by analogy.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Not at all. I say simply that terrorist sympathizers make the same distinctions when arguing for war waged against the United States while saying they love America. I do wonder if you would sympathize with Americans who wanted to declare war on the United States as the Confederacy did. Would you -- sympathize with them?

You have said you are a sympathizer of the traitorous Confederacy, which was granted an amnesty so long as they gave up their traitorous ways.


----------



## CurveLight (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Is that now what you are claiming the OP to be? Wriggle....wriggle....
> ...




Let me help you understand.  By your own words you state:

"....I did not intend to establish similarity by analogy."

Then what is the similarity by?  If it is not to be "similarity by analogy" that means there is the intension of similiarity, but not specifically by analogy....so:

Similarity by ?


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Very few things right?  Hmm, an interesting view, that you apparently feel needs the qualifying cover of a broadened context than we were discussing.

My defining just what I think your beliefs make you is not a personal attack. I cannot understand anyone saying the United States of America has gotten most everything wrong since day one, then saying they love America. Is it a concept and not a reality you love?


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



I purposefully chose the term 'comparison' over the term 'similarity' for reasons not relevant to this thread or to the main premises of my argument(s). please stop trying to take this thread off topic.

thank you for your consideration in this matter
D.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



No.  I wouldn't support any secessionist movement in the sense that I would advocate for secession.  If any state wished to secede, however, I would support their right to do so.  I don't support war, as it's nothing more than state sanctioned mass murder, but if the federal government decided to wage war to keep a state within the Union then I would have no problem openly supporting that state defending itself.

I'm not a supporter of the Confederacy, I'm a supporter of the right of the Confederacy to secede from the Union.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



I make a distinction between the government and the country, in this sense.  You list some things that the government has done that I object to, and then ask whether I like America.  Clearly you're asking whether I like the U.S. government, and the answer is no.  The U.S. government has done horrible things in its history, and it is doing horrible things today.  What is there to like?


----------



## CurveLight (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...




The terms "comparison" and "similarity" are both synonyms for analogy as already proven.

You're obviously unable to explain your op without contradicting yourself so you attempt to hide this by the bullshit claim that discussing the OP is taking the thread off topic.  Here's a hint:  if you don't like getting called out then don't start the threads then whine when you've been pwned.

You clearly drew a solid comparison with the:

Confederates killed Americans

To 

Al qaeda killed Americans.

Then asked if we would someday celebrate Alkida.

You even made a fucking timeline comparison.  I think you know your OP is bullshit but are too arrogant to admit it.  How about this:

Confederates killed Americans.

Cancer has and continues to kill Americans.

Will we celebrate cancer in the future?

That's how fucking stoopid your op looks. This thread is nothing but a guise to attack the South.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



I'm not running an English class for English as a second language.

Synonym: 1 : one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or _nearly the same _meaning _in some_ or all senses.

I told you before to look up differences with distinctions. you obviously have not, or you are not half as smart than previously given credit for. 

synonyms are not _always_ interchangeable with exacting meanings. as a matter of fact, synonyms are usually poor substitutes for exact meanings.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



You keep trying to substitute the individual governments, the entity of the United States of America, with an idea, an intellectual dream, what America should be or can be as opposed to what it actually has been. You like the idea but not the reality, so again, I ask you, why do you dislike the United States (America) so much? 

The United States has gotten things wrong in it's history, and in most cases the United States has tried to remedy the wrongs, but those instances are neither (in my not so humble opinion) the majority of it's actions or the worst actions in the history of it's humanity.

Thinking historically, I do not judge the actions of the United States today in a snapshot view of time, or in the context of the moment. I said before, I love the United States, flaws and all.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



There is no remedy for mass murder, torture, and imperialism.  The only thing that can be done is to stop doing those things.  When the U.S. government does stop doing them, then maybe my opinion of that government will change.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...





The Confederacy and others like them, will always have to declare war on the USA in order to declare themselves independent, unless they do so by the means left open to them. I linked to a Supreme Court decision that gave this scenario, yet you belittled teh court. 

You are all over the place, yet nowhere. You are stuck on principles without real world applications. You are a dreamer calling for war against the United States, yet you do not have the courage of your convictions: you're a classic Libertarian. 

So you are not a supporter of the Confederacy? Then why did you defend them so? You denied they declared warm declared rebellion, committed treason. They were granted amnesty.

Their symbols are hostile symbols.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



I have no idea where you ran. 

You've said before you did not agree with the Supreme Court precedents, or in case law that has established how America (the United States) has grown, governed and existed. You claim America (the United States) has gotten most everything wrong, yet you claim to love America while hating the governments. 

You run to American interests worldwide, geopolitics, after arguing for pages against the American government at it's most basic level, how it governs itself.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

What is it about America that you, kevin_kennedy loves? The idea? What idea? What about the reality...the America people have fought and died for?


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jul 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



You have no consistent set of principles, so there's no reason to continue this discussion.


----------



## Dante (Jul 15, 2010)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> You have no consistent set of principles, so there's no reason to continue this discussion.






what a crock of shit. I have stuck by the principles I believe in throughout this whole thread. You have been hard pressed to stick to your principles without retreating into denial and an effort to sidetrack what your principles obviously lead to.


----------



## JBeukema (Jul 16, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



What made you think of sucking dick when you read the above posts?


----------



## JBeukema (Jul 16, 2010)

Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > Did al Qaeda torture their slaves?
> ...





Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs  Confederacy*





Clearly, you're retarded.


----------



## JBeukema (Jul 16, 2010)

What I want to know is why Kevin has Col. Sanders as his avatar...


----------



## Douger (Jul 16, 2010)

zzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## CurveLight (Jul 16, 2010)

Dante said:


> I'm not running an English class for English as a second language.
> 
> Synonym: 1 : one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or _nearly the same _meaning _in some_ or all senses.
> 
> ...




I know you aren't running an ESL class because you can't even write an op or read posts.  I never said synonyms have exacting meanings so shove that strawman to the side.  Once again:

Let me help you understand.  By your own words you state:

"....I did not intend to establish similarity by analogy."

Then what is the similarity by?  If it is not to be "similarity by analogy" that means there is the intension of similiarity, but not specifically by analogy....so:

Similarity by ?

Go ahead and dodge it again.


----------



## Dante (Jul 16, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not running an English class for English as a second language.
> ...



still stuck on stupid? you get a bite and hold on for dear life? you hold on so tight you can't see where the fuck you're headed or where you've been?

_sigh_

I used the term _comparison_.

kevin had used the term _analogy_.

All I can imagine (by way of a quick deduction) is that kevin must have used the term _analogy_ assuming any similarities between the situations listed made for an analogy.

but I was not attempting an analogy. see? following along so far?

---

why did I inject the term similarity into the sentence?

as a short hand way of letting kevin know he was mistaking any similarities for an attempt at analogy.

you got a hard on thinking I was saying I used similarities as a way of comparison in place of similarities by analogy. I did not. 

what you did was read something into things that was never there to begin with. you got stuck on stupid. see? 

no big deal. It happens. 


dD


---

I'm not dodging anything. I'm just bored when dealing with an average troll with a limited grasp of how to play.

and, I rarely suffer fools gladly.

but in your case, I make an exception? why? I'm bored. see?

you use a quote out of context in the above post. I suspect your mind took out of context, the phrase you got a hard on for. It's a quirk of a mind attempting to grasp a simple yet complex thought.


----------



## CurveLight (Jul 16, 2010)

Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...




Then what is the comparison being made?


----------



## Dante (Jul 16, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...







Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.



The cause of death of Americans in a single day.

Al-Qeada and the Confederacy.

One caused the deaths of 3,000 people, not all Americans, but mostly Americans. And Americans (_myself among them_) puke at the mention of the name, al qaeda. The other caused the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in a mere 20 minutes. And Americans today fly the flag of this Confederacy.

When we finally get rid of the menace of Al qaeda, will we have to one day put up with Americans flying the flag of al qaeda? Calling al qaeda's cause a noble cause?


----------



## CurveLight (Jul 16, 2010)

Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...




Thank you for admitting you are comparing the South to Al qaeda.


----------



## Dante (Jul 16, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Thank you for admitting you are comparing the South to Al qaeda.






so, are you a professional idiot?  did you even read the OP? It is quite obvious to the most dense (or so I thought) what I was arguing.

I compared the old South, the Confederacy, to al-qaeda. The comparison took the form of the amount of Americans killed in a single day -- cause -- the hostilities each initiated against the United States.

Al-Qaeda and the Confederacy, both declared war on the United States. what do you not get about those facts?


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## CurveLight (Jul 16, 2010)

Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for admitting you are comparing the South to Al qaeda.
> ...




That is an analogy you dumbfuck.


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## hortysir (Jul 16, 2010)

Next we'll compare cigarette smoking to Hezbullah.

Cigarettes kill more Americans than Hammas and Hezbullah, combined.

We must now wage a war against RJ Reynolds.


----------



## Dante (Jul 16, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



*analogy* 1 : inference that* if* two or more things agree with one another in some respects _*they will probably agree in others*_

--

you are drawing the analogy, not my argument in the OP. see? 

*the comparison: *number of Americans killed in one day, by 2 different enemies of the United States.

*fact: *Al-Qaeda and the Confederacy both declared war on the United States.

*fact:* the Confederacy and Al-Qaeda are/were both enemies of the United states

*fact: *Some Americans fly the Confederate flag

*argument* it is a traitorous act for an American to proudly fly the flag of an enemy of the United States who has killed American citizens. 

----------------

where is the analogy? come on. you can do it if you try hard enough. where is the analogy you say I am making where the comparison is drawn? we know what the two things that agree with one another in some respects are (2 enemies killed Americans). where is/are the one or another ways, in which my argument suggests they will agree?


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## Dante (Jul 16, 2010)

hortysir said:


> Next we'll compare cigarette smoking to Hezbullah.
> 
> Cigarettes kill more Americans than Hammas and Hezbullah, combined.
> 
> We must now wage a war against RJ Reynolds.



D'oh!


Cancer and drugs kill Americans, and silly people declare war (in a generic and in many ways, a meaningless method) on cancer and drugs, as they do on the generic term of_ terrorism_.

I have yet to hear anyone call for a war against R.J. Reynolds, until today.  Does R.J. Reynolds have symbols they bring into battle as they wage war against Americans?  Do the Congress and the President know RJR has declared war on the United States? *Is your position that RJR is an enemy of the United States? *

---

I compared Al-Qaeda and the Confederacy, two entities that declared war on the United States, and in the process caused the deaths of a certain amount of Americans in a single day.


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## hortysir (Jul 16, 2010)

And, yet, it's still a lame comparison.

You set a pretty low bar, so it was easier for my comparison to be lamer than yours


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## CurveLight (Jul 17, 2010)

Dante said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...




Trying to bold your cherry picking doesn't help anything.

n. pl. a·nal·o·gies 

1. a.  Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.b.  A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.
analogy - definition of analogy by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Looks like I'm the one running an ESL class for you.


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## Dante (Aug 13, 2010)

ahhh, a great one.


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## CurveLight (Aug 14, 2010)

Dante said:


> ahhh, a great one.




Your lack of a response makes that redundant.


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## Dante (Aug 14, 2010)

CurveLight said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > ahhh, a great one.
> ...



make a credible and coherent argument and you may get a response.


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## CurveLight (Aug 15, 2010)

Hahahahahahahhahahahaha!


----------



## Dante (Aug 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.



The Confederacy led an insurrection headed by traitors who declared war on the United States of America.

this fact bothers some.
I understand.
the truth is often ugly


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## Dante (Mar 16, 2012)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.




yep. still stand by this


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## facultyandstaff (Mar 17, 2012)

Yeah that was at Cold Harbor...amazing number if you think about it. The weapons WAAAAAY ahead of the tactics.


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## Dante (Mar 18, 2012)

facultyandstaff said:


> Yeah that was at Cold Harbor...amazing number if you think about it. The weapons WAAAAAY ahead of the tactics.


----------



## editec (Mar 18, 2012)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.


 

Agreed.

The* Confederate States of America* was the worst TERRORIST organization in US history.


That terrorist organization casued the deaths of more Americans than all of Americans wars combined.


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## blimpo (Mar 19, 2012)

Body count- it would have taken 17 9-11s to equal one Gettysburg...


----------



## Sunshine (Mar 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> *I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy*. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.



I think it is important for history to remember all sides.  We have lost a lot of history because of the mentality that only the victor should be remembered.  My original ancestor in this country was an esquire, a colonel, and a loyalist.  He was the richest person in the colonies and he served the crown as legal counsel there.  Yet, no one knows his name, save those of us who descended from him, and those who visit an exhibit in the Smithsonian for which his bones were exhumed and forensically examined along with others to determine what life was like in the colonies.  If the loyalists had not been blanked out of history, there might be no need for forensic examination of their bones to know what life was like for them in those days.  

His son joined a rebellion against the crown and was disinherited.  On down the line, one of his descendants fought in the American Revolution.  It is through that private that I am a Daughter of the American Revolution.  But I am also a Daughter of the Confederacy. And my family is the ONLY southern family I know that keeps up the slave cemetery which resides next to their own.  Most of those old cemeteries have been dozed over.  Lincoln allowed Confederate soldiers to be buried in Arlington. He knew the value of honoring both sides.  And we know what we do of our own government through stories from the Confederacy.  The US government was savage to not only the Confederates, but also to slaves who they had no clue what to do with once they arrived 'up north' and just let them starve, freeze, or sent them back to the plantations. Those of my family were family, they didn't leave.  And to this day, they come to our family reunions and are welcomed there.   There is no balance to history if one side is completely extinguished.

You may have 'gone down south.'  But you don't know the South.


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## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

editec said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> ...



The Confederates had to be pardoned. Criminals get pardons.


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## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

blimpo said:


> Body count- it would have taken 17 9-11s to equal one Gettysburg...


----------



## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> ...



State's Rights. Confederacy lost. They were pardoned. They started a killing war and lost. Confederate politicians caused more trouble for more people even after they lost the Civil War. Still doing it.

If I had my way I'd tear down most every single Confederate War memorial.  Might as well built a memorial to Japanese suicide pilots at Pearl Harbor


----------



## Sunshine (Mar 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Then you have no understanding or appreciation of history.  And FYI, it was the United States that issued the Declaration of War in the war of northern aggression.  I'm guessing all those monuments WILL be torn down, but not by who you think. I'm fairly ceratin EVERY memorial in the US will be torn down by muslims.  Evenutally.  I just hope my eyes and those of my children and grandchildren are safely closed in death when it occurs.  Barbarians have overrun civilizations before.  It will happen again.  They certainly overran the South.


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## American Horse (Mar 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.



There was tenacity to their cause on both sides.  There had been many years of deeply held resentment on both sides. There was the notion that to maximize damage to the other side would speed the war's end, and most of the battles (not all; some were guerilla) were set-piece confrontations in which the incidence of mortal wounds is maximized. That accounts for the large numbers of  dead in any single day.  

There are still sympathizers for the vanquished South. There is still the expression of emotion that comes from a family feud. The common soldiery of the south were more like that of the north than the aristocrats who were their betters.  Southern aristocracy and plantation culture were transplants from European root stock.

But there seems to be more public expressions of patriotism for the US in the south than the north, and the deeper the south the moreso.


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## Sunshine (Mar 19, 2012)

American Horse said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> ...




Absolutely.


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## Sallow (Mar 19, 2012)

Every confederate should have been impaled and left on the road all along the south. The heads of Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis should have been put on a spike and left to be fly blown. The Confederate flag should have been outlawed..and flying the colors should mean a lengthy jail term.

Sherman didn't go far enough.


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## Sallow (Mar 19, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> American Horse said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Bullshit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubzG1CFi8cs]"Sovereignty or Secession" Rally in Austin, Texas - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3PZSLjhmA]Ron Paul talks about secession... in front of the Confederate Flag - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Qb_wMT2I8]Governor Rick Perry, Texas and secession. - YouTube[/ame]


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## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > State's Rights. Confederacy lost. They were pardoned. They started a killing war and lost. Confederate politicians caused more trouble for more people even after they lost the Civil War. Still doing it.
> ...



Muslims? 

But I understand history very well. I know that the state's rights arguments of Southern States stay alive with all this bullshit, even though we settled those issues ages ago.  

Don't play that Declaration of War game with me. One of my dearest friends from ages ago is a Southerner and a history Prof. He used to tell me all about the Southern reality deniers.


----------



## Sunshine (Mar 19, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > American Horse said:
> ...



It must be very hard to go through life filled with as much hate as you have inside you.


----------



## Sunshine (Mar 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



LOL.  And I bet some of your best friends are black too!    You funny boah!


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## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

American Horse said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> ...



Overcompensation


----------



## Sallow (Mar 19, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



I hate traitors and treasonous bastards that hate the US.

Sue me.


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## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...




Southern history Prof. who schooled me. bit of a diff, but funny

But no black history Profs, although I used to go to Skip Gates' house, when he was married to S. Adams.


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## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

Sallow said:


> I hate traitors and treasonous bastards that hate the US.
> 
> Sue me.



The Southern Confederacy were traitors. They got pardoned. Criminals get pardoned.


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## Sallow (Mar 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > I hate traitors and treasonous bastards that hate the US.
> ...



They should have been executed.


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## Dante (Mar 19, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



that is something agreed upon before hostilities cease. terms of cease fire and end to hostilities and peace deals.


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## Sallow (Mar 19, 2012)

Dante said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



It was a bad deal..as Jim Crow laws..and this secessionist movement have shown.

The very idea of the confederacy should strike fear in the hearts of every southerner.

It doesn't.


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## whitehall (Mar 19, 2012)

Conservative estimates are that the Union army killed 50,000 Southern civilians. Sheridan's march down the Shenandoah Valley burning barns left perhaps hundreds of innocent civilians who were ironically loyal to the Union to starve to death in the harsh winter. Who could justify the conduct of a crazy general who thought he was the "sword of retribution" when he told civilians to abandon Atlanta and then burned the city? Don't forget the "draft riots" in 1863 in New York where every Black person the rioters could find was lynched to a lamp post. Estimates are from 100 to 500 Blacks were murdered in a couple of days of rioting.


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## del (Mar 19, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Every confederate should have been impaled and left on the road all along the south. The heads of Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis should have been put on a spike and left to be fly blown. The Confederate flag should have been outlawed..and flying the colors should mean a lengthy jail term.
> 
> Sherman didn't go far enough.



try harder

1/20


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## del (Mar 19, 2012)

the term *war of northern aggression always make me think of this lady


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## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

SoCal history is better than fiction: Clampitt History



> The Clampitt companies that owned the wells in, and above, Elsmere Canyon are long gone, but I wanted to locate any living relatives. They might have some information or pictures from this period. The Clampitts, especially Leah, one of Edward's daughters, led interesting lives. I could find very little information on how the Clampitt brothers evidently became wealthy after coming to California. They must have worked hard and got lucky in the oil business. They owned wells in Kern Country and Los Angeles. They both died young - Don at 38 and Edward at 49, both from unknown causes. Edward was elected to the Los Angeles City Council in 1906 and served three years. He was at one time a member of the Republican State Central Committee, the Chamber of Commerce, the Chamber of Mines and Oils, the Los Angeles Athletic Club, and the Elks Club. He became such an important person that at his funeral, the governor of California and the mayor of Los Angeles were honorary pallbearers. In honor of his public service, the city hall flag was placed at half mast. I found a short biography of him which I have included below the following chart and a longer biography at the bottom of the page.





del said:


> the term *war of northern aggression always make me think of this lady


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Sallow, I saw some of the battle flags go down after 9/11/01, with the Stars & Stripes in their place. I have ancestors that fought on the wrong side. There is a Civil War reenactment just a few miles from here, YEARLY. The stars & bars are rare, worth a lot to collectors.


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## rdean (Mar 20, 2012)

It took a black Democratic President to take out Bin Laden.


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## whitehall (Mar 20, 2012)

rdean said:


> It took a black Democratic President to take out Bin Laden.



What is it with the left? They were telling us that Bin Ladin should be left alone for 8 years and then they use words like "take the bastard out" as soon as a democrat moves into the White House.


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## Sunshine (Mar 20, 2012)

They apparently have forgotten this is America where you can display any symbol you want.  Japanese can even have memorials to those who bombed Pearl Harbor, and you are free to fly the nazi flag if you wish.  There is no law agains either thing. There are some on here who have to be the most goddamned repressive individuals I have ever met.  They are only tolerant of one another, and everyone else should be stomped like an ant hill.  Thank GOD we live in America.  I just hope it stays that way a few more years.


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## Sunshine (Mar 20, 2012)

whitehall said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > It took a black Democratic President to take out Bin Laden.
> ...



And all southerners should have been killed.  Real tolerant them leftists.


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## rdean (Mar 20, 2012)

Dante said:


> *Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy*
> 
> Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.
> 
> I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.



Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy?

It was Confederate Republicans who let Bin Laden go.


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## rdean (Mar 20, 2012)

whitehall said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > It took a black Democratic President to take out Bin Laden.
> ...



You fucking lying piece of shit.  

Doesn't change the facts that Republicans let him go and stopped looking for him.

A black Democratic President said he wouldn't rest until he brought Bin Laden to justice all the way back when he was running for president.  And he did.


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## rdean (Mar 20, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...



Besides you, I never heard anyone say that.


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rdean said:
> ...



I must not be a leftist then. I do not agree. Nor did it "take a black president" to kill bin Laden. It took determination, and trained NAVY SEALS. Plus luck, as al Qaeda had 9/11/01.


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## Sunshine (Mar 20, 2012)

So Dante knows a history prof.  BFD.  Let me suggest you read someone who knows what REALLY happened to blacks.

W. E. B. duBois 1868 - 1963
]
If the US government was so well intended and the civil war was so good for blacks, then, why 100 years later, in 1950, were they still living in squalor with deplorable diets and health? Why didn't the US government DO something to help them for 100 years?   Hmmm........?


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## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> So Dante knows a history prof.  BFD.  Let me suggest you read someone who knows what REALLY happened to blacks.
> 
> W. E. B. duBois 1868 - 1963
> ]
> If the US government was so well intended and the civil war was so good for blacks, then, why 100 years later, in 1950, were they still living in squalor with deplorable diets and health? Why didn't the US government DO something to help them for 100 years?   Hmmm........?



A southerner who is a history prof who wrote about SC and the war.  some might call him an expert. I call him friend.

He taught me about certain aspects of Southern White culture. (he remembers adults applauding the assassination of JFK) He was very kind but brutally honest about his beloved South.


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Dante said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > So Dante knows a history prof.  BFD.  Let me suggest you read someone who knows what REALLY happened to blacks.
> ...




Was the book "Black Majority"?


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## Sunshine (Mar 20, 2012)

Dante said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > So Dante knows a history prof.  BFD.  Let me suggest you read someone who knows what REALLY happened to blacks.
> ...




I am not impressed.  He really taught you about nothing but  his own self loathing.  Too bad you couldn't see that.  One thing's for sure, you both want to be a real part of the south and neither of you will be because we won't let you in.  That may actually be his REAL beef.  Another thing's for sure, the civil war will never be over because idiots like you are still fighting it.  That's why you will never get in.  You are just like blacks who, when invited to a white home start making snide remarks about how they are 'part of the club now.'  Or saying, 'it sure is white in here.'  As long as you have your attitude neither you, nor they will be part of the club.  I have black friends and they don't act that way.  I have had what I _thought_ were black friends until they started acting that way.  They didn't stay on the guest list long.  Bounders like you put your knees under our table and insult us the whole time you eat.  Read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.  Read about the early party for you and the late party for US.  LOL.  You are nothing but a blue collar chump.  Why you chose Dante for a name beats the hell out of me.  I read The Inferno in 7th grade.  I'm  sure you still can't get through it.

And now, I have a lovely breeze off my lovely southern lake with lovely windchimes to listen to.   Unlike listening to you which is akin to listening to a jackass braying.


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## Peach (Mar 20, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



I'd still like to know if the book is "Black Majority". And Sunshine, I see the battle flag still on bumper stickers; I saw it homes until 9/11/01. The STARS & BARS live on, like it or not.


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## Sunshine (Mar 20, 2012)

Peach said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



It is NOT illegal to put the stars and bars anywhere.  Put them up your ass for all I care.


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## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



David had no self loathing. none at all. He was only partly Roman Catholic, he was Lutheran on the other side of family. Charleston, S.C. 

read: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. 

Dante? You have no clue. Believe me when I say "You have no clue"

The Nile still flows south of the Mason Dixon Line


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## Sunshine (Mar 20, 2012)

Dante said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



I have seen the Nile.  

Catholics are the most guilt ridden people in the world.   That is all Catholicism is about.  Guilt.  And Gilt.  But I'll hand it to him.  He sure sold simple minded knuckle headed you a bill of good!  I chortle at your gullibility.

Going to enjoy my wind chimes.  But even though you are much like the dumb dude in Body Heat, you are not invited up to see them.


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## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

Sunshine said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



Actually, many of the South's most credible critics have been Southerners, like H.L. Mencken and David. 

Sahara of the Bozart


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## American Horse (Mar 20, 2012)

Dante said:


> Actually, many of the South's most credible critics have been Southerners, like H.L. Mencken and David.
> 
> Sahara of the Bozart





> Silenced during World War I for his unpopular pro-German views, he broke out in 1919 with both fury and delight as he heaped abuse on nearly every aspect of American life: its small-town provincialism, its religious fundamentalism, its tawdry politics, its intellectual sterility. He was particularly rough on the American hinterlands, the South and the Midwest. Holding up a Europeanand an urbanideal, and feeling the American East at least approached that ideal, he delighted in attacking those regions that he felt had become the home of American puritanism






> but his period of greatest influence declined with the end of the 1920s. Although he regained readers and reputation in the 1940s with a series of autobiographical volumes as well as his multi-volume work*The American Language*(he vastly preferred American English to British English), he never recaptured the boisterous spirit of the 1920s. During the Great Depression and World War II, Menckens brand of satire no longer appeared so funny. His pro-German sympathies kept him from attacking Hitler (whom he characterized as a European version of a benighted southern demagogue), and certain of his writings led to charges of anti-Semitism.



Heath Anthology of American LiteratureH.L.*Mencken - Author Page


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## Dante (Mar 20, 2012)

American Horse said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, many of the South's most credible critics have been Southerners, like H.L. Mencken and David.
> ...



going back to the seventies, I tried finding out who HLM was. Always saw him referenced along with Walter Lippmann. In the 80's I started collecting early editions, out of print, of Mencken's _stuff_, magazines, books... I was young, but identified the issues and times. Read many bios, and lots of Mencken's writings. Funny guy. Most everyone I've met who quotes him, misses the point of what he was saying. Who he truly was as a man is lost on most everyone. Quite a simple man. Very cosmopolitan, yet provincial. Outgoing yet intensely private. Was best friends with Methodist ministers and others in professions he lampooned. Not a hater. Not a bitter conservative looking back to the future.

Mencken was an original.


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## rdean (Mar 21, 2012)

Peach said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



Bush didn't do it.  In fact, he publicly and repeatedly said he didn't think about Bin Laden and disbanded the CIA unit assigned to find him.  Those are "facts" that can't be denied.

Republicans keep insisting this "boy" king is on the side of terrorists, yet, he's the one taking them out.

Obama killed Bin Laden.  His weapon was the Navy Seals, but he did it as sure as if he was standing there holding the gun.  That's the way being "Commander in Chief" works.  Republicans can't accept a black president.  They work to diminish Obama.  Not because of his policies, but because he's black.  We all know it.  To bad more Republicans aren't honest.  But plenty are.


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## Publius1787 (Mar 23, 2012)

Dante said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle.  You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies.  Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.
> ...



You always know you've struk a nerve when they use smilies to make their argument for them.


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## Dante (Mar 23, 2012)

Publius1787 said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



The Peanut Gallery @ USMB is alive and well and growing in membership? That's a good thing.


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