# The world's richest folks doubled their wealth in the last 10 years.



## the other mike

Did you ? Not very likely.

*World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*

Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.


/----/ Well that's great news. Thanks for sharing.


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## norwegen

That' awesome. More power to 'em.


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## Mac1958

That would be an average of about 7.2% growth per year.


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## VanceMack

My net and growth has both more than doubled over the last 10 years. My homes and properties I own are at ridiculous levels. My 401k investment is up 38% this year alone. My personal savings remain stable but thats because so much is invested rather than sitting in a bank account. 

And heres the really cool part. None of my gains cost any of you a penny. In fact, the only people that are miserable are the people not working...on welfare, or in every other way they can manage finding a way to kick their own ass. Yeah...THOSE guys have a tendency to bitch about the inherent unfairness of a system that creates such a divide. But if you look past the woes is me mentality you learn there is no system oppressing you. The only people oppressing you are you and that pathetic rat bastard that stares back at you from the mirror every morning.


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## Wuwei

The problem with inordinate wealth is that money buys power; it buys politicians; it buys anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It buys legislation to restrict welfare; make healthcare expensive. It leads to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor.


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## norwegen

Wuwei said:


> The problem with inordinate wealth is that money buys power; it buys politicians; it buys anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It buys legislation to restrict welfare; make healthcare expensive. It leads to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor.


You should move to a country without any rich people.


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## Cellblock2429

Wuwei said:


> The problem with inordinate wealth is that money buys power; it buys politicians; it buys anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It buys legislation to restrict welfare; make healthcare expensive. It leads to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor.


/----/ You've mistaken *will* with could.  Let me correct your post: The problem with inordinate wealth is that money *COULD* buy power; it *COULD* buy politicians; it *COULD* buy anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It *COULD* buy legislation to restrict welfare; it *COULD* make healthcare expensive. It *COULD* lead to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor. 

Now maybe that is what *you* would do with wealth, but it doesn't apply to everyone. BTW the wealthy do help the poor in many ways, creating jobs, through charity and so on.


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## the other mike

Cellblock2429 said:


> Now maybe that is what *you* would do with wealth, but it doesn't apply to everyone. BTW the wealthy do help the poor in many ways, creating jobs, through charity and so pn.



Listen to the silver spoon boys chiming in.


norwegen said:


> Wuwei said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with inordinate wealth is that money buys power; it buys politicians; it buys anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It buys legislation to restrict welfare; make healthcare expensive. It leads to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor.
> 
> 
> 
> You should move to a country without any rich people.
Click to expand...

Everything he said is spot on.
If reality isn't your bag, go find the science fiction board to play on.


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## norwegen

Listen to the malcontents chiming in.


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## Oddball

Wuwei said:


> The problem with inordinate wealth is that money buys power; it buys politicians; it buys anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It buys legislation to restrict welfare; make healthcare expensive. It leads to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor.


There'd be nothing to buy if the politicians havd no power to sell it....Yet those who've demanded for an all-powerful State that meddles in nearly every aspect of our lives, get all pissy when people of means show up to buy off the protection racketeers.


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## the other mike

norwegen said:


> Listen to the malcontents chiming in.


I'm quite happy actually.
But I like seeing everyone be happy, not just the ones with yachts
and Lamborghini hangars.


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## the other mike

VanceMack said:


> My net and growth has both more than doubled over the last 10 years. My homes and properties I own are at ridiculous levels. My 401k investment is up 38% this year alone. My personal savings remain stable but thats because so much is invested rather than sitting in a bank account.
> 
> And heres the really cool part. None of my gains cost any of you a penny. In fact, the only people that are miserable are the people not working...on welfare, or in every other way they can manage finding a way to kick their own ass. Yeah...THOSE guys have a tendency to bitch about the inherent unfairness of a system that creates such a divide. But if you look past the woes is me mentality you learn there is no system oppressing you. The only people oppressing you are you and that pathetic rat bastard that stares back at you from the mirror every morning.


Congratulations but you missed the point.
Now run along and count your gold nuggets, Sinbad.


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## Wuwei

Cellblock2429 said:


> /----/ You've mistaken *will* with could. Let me correct your post: The problem with inordinate wealth is that money *COULD* buy power; it *COULD* buy politicians; it *COULD* buy anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It *COULD* buy legislation to restrict welfare; it *COULD* make healthcare expensive. It *COULD* lead to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor.


You are wrong; It has been happening for decades. Don't you understand lobbyists and PACs and favors for large political donations?. I don't know where you live but I am talking about the US.


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## VanceMack

This is the extent of your oh so brilliant contribution to the OP.

"Did you ? Not very likely."

So no...I didn't miss the point of YOUR OP. I commented on YOUR POINT to YOUR OP.


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## BuckToothMoron

It’s the Central Bank monetary policy, but most of you here want to blame politicians because it’s easier than actually understanding the real reason.
Sorry, but you’ll have to read the entire link below to begin to understand the problem. 
Commentary: The Real Reason for Income Inequality? The Fed
Income inequality in America has worsened in recent decades. Many on the left, buttressed by a not-insignificant number of those on the right, have argued for an increasingly progressive income tax code to tackle this problem.

But they’re focusing on the wrong solution—instead, the target ought to be the Federal Reserve. While the central bank chose to not change interest rates this week, the Fed’s ceaseless quantitative easing programs and obstinate commitment to unnaturally low interest rates in the years following the 2008 financial crisis have had the unintended effects of both incentivizing reckless deficit-driven spending from Congress and exacerbating income and wealth inequality in the private sector.


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## Cellblock2429

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /----/ You've mistaken *will* with could. Let me correct your post: The problem with inordinate wealth is that money *COULD* buy power; it *COULD* buy politicians; it *COULD* buy anti-regulation of drug prices, industrial pollution, poor land use, wall street, etc. It *COULD* buy legislation to restrict welfare; it *COULD* make healthcare expensive. It *COULD* lead to oligarchy. It's great for the wealthy, but not the poor.
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong; It has been happening for decades. Don't you understand lobbyists and PACs and favors for large political donations?. I don't know where you live but I am talking about the US.
Click to expand...

/----/ Ask a grown up to explain the difference between will and could.  I can't make it simpler for you.

BTW, if you want to know where I live, click on my profile:
*Cellblock2429*
Gold Member, Male, 68, from New York
Gold Supporting Member


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> norwegen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to the malcontents chiming in.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quite happy actually.
> But I like seeing everyone be happy, not just the ones with yachts
> and Lamborghini hangars.
Click to expand...

/----/ Great news. I'm happy and have neither a yacht or a Lamborgini hanger.


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> VanceMack said:
> 
> 
> 
> My net and growth has both more than doubled over the last 10 years. My homes and properties I own are at ridiculous levels. My 401k investment is up 38% this year alone. My personal savings remain stable but thats because so much is invested rather than sitting in a bank account.
> 
> And heres the really cool part. None of my gains cost any of you a penny. In fact, the only people that are miserable are the people not working...on welfare, or in every other way they can manage finding a way to kick their own ass. Yeah...THOSE guys have a tendency to bitch about the inherent unfairness of a system that creates such a divide. But if you look past the woes is me mentality you learn there is no system oppressing you. The only people oppressing you are you and that pathetic rat bastard that stares back at you from the mirror every morning.
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations but you missed the point.
> Now run along and count your gold nuggets, Sinbad.
Click to expand...

/---/ Gold nuggets?   Your class envy is laughable. Gold nuggets???


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## Jackson

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.


It's not just the rich.  It's anyone who is invested in the market.  And people's retirement funds are doing great.  You always play the victim, don't you?  Invest in America and come out a winner!


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## Muhammed

Sounds like the OP is a jelly belly.


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## the other mike

Jackson said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just the rich.  It's anyone who is invested in the market.  And people's retirement funds are doing great.  You always play the victim, don't you?  Invest in America and come out a winner!
Click to expand...

More power to ya Brisko.

Americans *Lost* over *$10* *Trillion* in investment/retirement funds and home equity in 2008 and they say the next crash will be_ much worse_.

*America Lost $10.2 Trillion In 2008*


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## Wuwei

Cellblock2429 said:


> Ask a grown up to explain the difference between will and could. I can't make it simpler for you.


No, "will" and "could" are not the right words. Because buying legislation and politicians "have happened" and "are happening". That is simply the case.


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## the other mike

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a grown up to explain the difference between will and could. I can't make it simpler for you.
> 
> 
> 
> No, "will" and "could" are not the right words. Because buying legislation and politicians "have happened" and "are happening". That is simply the case.
Click to expand...

Because of the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling _that only Bernie Sanders ever even mentions, _China, Saudi Arabia or _Russia_.......Bayer, Exxon or Monsanto for that matter--can anonymously donate billions to our elections, and we will never know about it. *These are globalists who are quietly pulling the rug out from under our sovereignty* while we sleepwalk along obliviously in our Starbuck's drive-thru coffee, rent-a-life soap opera illusions.


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## the other mike

U.S. homeowners lost a cumulative $3.3 trillion in home equity during 2008, according to a report from Zillow. (MortgageWire.)
One in six homeowners is now underwater on their mortgage.
The stock market erased $6.9 trillion in shareholder wealth in 2008.
Add together the loss of housing equity of $3.3 trillion and the stock market loss of $6.9 trillion, and you've got a historic loss of wealth of $10.2 trillion.

*America Lost $10.2 Trillion In 2008*


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## Deplorable Yankee

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.




I cant complain ...and good for them 




 
Triggered!!!!!!


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> Wuwei said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a grown up to explain the difference between will and could. I can't make it simpler for you.
> 
> 
> 
> No, "will" and "could" are not the right words. Because buying legislation and politicians "have happened" and "are happening". That is simply the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because of the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling _that only Bernie Sanders ever even mentions, _China, Saudi Arabia or _Russia_.......Bayer, Exxon or Monsanto for that matter--can anonymously donate billions to our elections, and we will never know about it. *These are globalists who are quietly pulling the rug out from under our sovereignty* while we sleepwalk along obliviously in our Starbuck's drive-thru coffee, rent-a-life soap opera illusions.
Click to expand...

/——/ So? What’s your point?


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## Cellblock2429

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a grown up to explain the difference between will and could. I can't make it simpler for you.
> 
> 
> 
> No, "will" and "could" are not the right words. Because buying legislation and politicians "have happened" and "are happening". That is simply the case.
Click to expand...

/—-/ No dumbazz,  I mean you can’t claim that if you become wealthy then you automatically spend your money on those things. You CAN but don’t have to if you don’t want to.


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## the other mike

Cellblock2429 said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wuwei said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a grown up to explain the difference between will and could. I can't make it simpler for you.
> 
> 
> 
> No, "will" and "could" are not the right words. Because buying legislation and politicians "have happened" and "are happening". That is simply the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because of the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling _that only Bernie Sanders ever even mentions, _China, Saudi Arabia or _Russia_.......Bayer, Exxon or Monsanto for that matter--can anonymously donate billions to our elections, and we will never know about it. *These are globalists who are quietly pulling the rug out from under our sovereignty* while we sleepwalk along obliviously in our Starbuck's drive-thru coffee, rent-a-life soap opera illusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /——/ So? What’s your point?
Click to expand...

Never mind.


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wuwei said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a grown up to explain the difference between will and could. I can't make it simpler for you.
> 
> 
> 
> No, "will" and "could" are not the right words. Because buying legislation and politicians "have happened" and "are happening". That is simply the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because of the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling _that only Bernie Sanders ever even mentions, _China, Saudi Arabia or _Russia_.......Bayer, Exxon or Monsanto for that matter--can anonymously donate billions to our elections, and we will never know about it. *These are globalists who are quietly pulling the rug out from under our sovereignty* while we sleepwalk along obliviously in our Starbuck's drive-thru coffee, rent-a-life soap opera illusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /——/ So? What’s your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never mind.
Click to expand...

/——/ Corporations have the right to donate money for political reasons. There is no harm in it. You stating they do it without any reason why if would be wrong as if we should be able to read your mind is just plain stupid.


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just the rich.  It's anyone who is invested in the market.  And people's retirement funds are doing great.  You always play the victim, don't you?  Invest in America and come out a winner!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More power to ya Brisko.
> 
> Americans *Lost* over *$10* *Trillion* in investment/retirement funds and home equity in 2008 and they say the next crash will be_ much worse_.
> 
> *America Lost $10.2 Trillion In 2008*
Click to expand...

/—-/ They say??? They say a lot of things. Who is they? Got any names or are we still supposed to be reading your mind?


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## the other mike

For the ones   who forgot to read the OP.

* World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008  *


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> For the ones   who forgot to read the OP.
> 
> * World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008  *


/----/ Good for them. Bravo. Thanks for sharing.


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## williepete

The world's richest folks doubled their wealth in the last 10 years.

1. So what?

2. Good for them.


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## Cellblock2429

Angelo said:


> For the ones   who forgot to read the OP.
> 
> * World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008  *


/----/ And if in 2009 you'd put $1,000 in the S&P 500 spyder, you would have more than TRIPLED your money. S&P 500 - 10 Year Daily Chart


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## Wuwei

Cellblock2429 said:


> /——/ Corporations have the right to donate money for political reasons. There is no harm in it. You stating they do it without any reason why if would be wrong as if we should be able to read your mind is just plain stupid.


Yes there often is harm in it. For example Big Sugar gets legislation passed or tabled by simply making campaign donations and telling politicians what they want. This is a sort of legal bribery. Tax payers in Florida have to pay to clean up the pollution that the sugar companies create.


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## Wuwei

Cellblock2429 said:


> /----/ And if in 2009 you'd put $1,000 in the S&P 500 spyder, you would have more than TRIPLED your money. S&P 500 - 10 Year Daily Chart


Yeah right, tell that to the millions of families in debt or with no savings because they work at minimum wage jobs.


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## williepete

Angelo said:


> Americans *Lost* over *$10* *Trillion* in investment/retirement funds and home equity in 2008 and they say the next crash will be_ much worse_.



2008 was instructive. We felt as much as saw the crash coming and got out of our medium to high risk investments and into lower performing but safer investments. We didn't lose too much. We were slow getting back in until we saw positive, stable growth. We missed out on a lot of earnings but slept well at night. We've made it all back and a lot more. 

Our financial manager uses the 2008 model to assess how much we'd lose in a 2008 scenario model and gives us options. On our annual visit, a strategy at one end would take a 25% hit while at the other end would only go down 8%. We chose the 8%.

I knew a lot of people who lost their asses but their investments were not well managed, they weren't paying attention and a few were just greedy. Some people have a hard time selling on a decline and taking a loss only to lose more by riding it to the bottom. 

"You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em."


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## Wuwei

norwegen said:


> You should move to a country without any rich people.


That is a tired old meaningless meme. I live here and want to prevent the country from becoming an oligarchy.


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## Wuwei

williepete said:


> 2008 was instructive. We felt as much as saw the crash coming and got out of our medium to high risk investments and into lower performing but safer investments. We didn't lose too much. We were slow getting back in until we saw positive, stable growth. We missed out on a lot of earnings but slept well at night. We've made it all back and a lot more.
> Our financial manager uses the 2008 model to assess how much we'd lose in a 2008 scenario model and gives us options. On our annual visit, a strategy at one end would take a 25% hit while at the other end would only go down 8%. We chose the 8%.
> 
> I knew a lot of people who lost their asses but their investments were not well managed, they weren't paying attention and a few were just greedy. Some people have a hard time selling on a decline and taking a loss only to lose more by riding it to the bottom.
> 
> "You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em."


A lot of people in my neighborhood had their house foreclosed. A lot of people don't have financial managers because they jobs aren't paying enough for them to even consider owning any stocks or bonds.


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## williepete

Wuwei said:


> A lot of people in my neighborhood had their house foreclosed. A lot of people don't have financial managers because they jobs aren't paying enough for them to even consider owning any stocks or bonds.



I hear you. A lot of people live above their means. I would say most Americans do. We as a nation produce economic illiterates. I worked in an industry where I made good money. I'd say 80% of my coworkers making what I did lived paycheck to 6-figure paycheck. When 2008 happened, they took massive hits because they were overextended.

You can't fix stupid.

Live below your means. Save your surplus. Over time, invest those savings wisely. Avoid debt. Not rocket science. Works 100% of the time. But you see, that's not how most of our citizens operate mentally. They want it all and they want it now. Paying credit card interest rates is a stupid tax. Paying a car loan is a stupid tax.

You are ultimately responsible for where you are in life.

The victim card doesn't work. Don't trust anyone trying to make you feel like a victim. Look in the mirror to see who's responsible.


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## Cellblock2429

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /----/ And if in 2009 you'd put $1,000 in the S&P 500 spyder, you would have more than TRIPLED your money. S&P 500 - 10 Year Daily Chart
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah right, tell that to the millions of families in debt or with no savings because they work at minimum wage jobs.
Click to expand...

/---/ You think $1,000 is a lot of money to save and invest? Man, you are a loser.
BTW, I started out at minimum wage and managed to save $1,000 to open a Fidelity account and my first mutual fund *in 1973*. I made $125 a week in advertising and another $60 a weekend bartending. I lived in a furnished studio for $25 a week and lived on simple basic foods. I managed to save $25 - $39 a week. In 8 months I had enough to open a brokerage account. The fund returned about $10 a yar and I always added to it. 
So what's your excuse?


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## Cellblock2429

Wuwei said:


> williepete said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2008 was instructive. We felt as much as saw the crash coming and got out of our medium to high risk investments and into lower performing but safer investments. We didn't lose too much. We were slow getting back in until we saw positive, stable growth. We missed out on a lot of earnings but slept well at night. We've made it all back and a lot more.
> Our financial manager uses the 2008 model to assess how much we'd lose in a 2008 scenario model and gives us options. On our annual visit, a strategy at one end would take a 25% hit while at the other end would only go down 8%. We chose the 8%.
> 
> I knew a lot of people who lost their asses but their investments were not well managed, they weren't paying attention and a few were just greedy. Some people have a hard time selling on a decline and taking a loss only to lose more by riding it to the bottom.
> 
> "You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em."
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people in my neighborhood had their house foreclosed. A lot of people don't have financial managers because they jobs aren't paying enough for them to even consider owning any stocks or bonds.
Click to expand...

/----/ Loser.


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## fncceo

Good for them.

Well done.


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## Wuwei

Cellblock2429 said:


> /---/ You think $1,000 is a lot of money to save and invest? Man, you are a loser.
> BTW, I started out at minimum wage and managed to save $1,000 to open a Fidelity account and my first mutual fund *in 1973*. I made $125 a week in advertising and another $60 a weekend bartending. I lived in a furnished studio for $25 a week and lived on simple basic foods. I managed to save $25 - $39 a week. In 8 months I had enough to open a brokerage account. The fund returned about $10 a yar and I always added to it.
> So what's your excuse?





Cellblock2429 said:


> /----/ Loser.


Good for you. What makes you think I'm talking about me? I'm doing very well. I'm talking about the 38 million people living in poverty according to the latest census. Here is what  people like you never see.





McDonald's Sample Budget Sheet Is Laughable, but Its Implications Are Not

They recommend you have two jobs per family. They budget $0 for heating. $20 for health insurance.

You have to remember half of all people are below average intelligence and simply can't lift themselves higher. Do you think those 38 million less than average people can find 38 million higher paying jobs so they can hire a broker?
.


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## Markle

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> More power to ya Brisko.
> 
> Americans *Lost* over *$10* *Trillion* in investment/retirement funds and home equity in 2008 and they say the next crash will be_ much worse_.
> 
> *America Lost $10.2 Trillion In 2008*



Who is they?

Who said the next crash will be much worse and what will be the cause?


----------



## Wuwei

williepete said:


> I hear you. A lot of people live above their means. I would say most Americans do. We as a nation produce economic illiterates. I worked in an industry where I made good money. I'd say 80% of my coworkers making what I did lived paycheck to 6-figure paycheck. When 2008 happened, they took massive hits because they were overextended.
> 
> You can't fix stupid.
> 
> Live below your means. Save your surplus. Over time, invest those savings wisely. Avoid debt. Not rocket science. Works 100% of the time. But you see, that's not how most of our citizens operate mentally. They want it all and they want it now. Paying credit card interest rates is a stupid tax. Paying a car loan is a stupid tax.
> 
> You are ultimately responsible for where you are in life.
> 
> The victim card doesn't work. Don't trust anyone trying to make you feel like a victim. Look in the mirror to see who's responsible.


Yes. Americans are responsible for their debt and most are stupid about it. Here's how many Americans currently have debt:
It's Official: Most Americans Are Currently in Debt | The Motley Fool

80.9% of baby boomers
79.9% of Gen Xers
81.5% of millennials
Overall consumer debt reached $13.3 trillion in the fourth quarter of 2018.
How Much Debt Do Americans Have? | The Motley Fool

"The average American now has about $38,000 in personal debt."
What do you think would happen to the US economy if consumers dropped their spending way down so they could pay off their debt -- keep their car for 15 years, don't upgrade the kitchen, cell phone, TV, etc. That would be $38 trillion products not sold. How do you think our booming economy will fare? Factories would scale down. Jobs would be lost.

It seems the country is living on borrowed time. Literally.
.


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## CWayne

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.


So, how much did it take out of your pocket?


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## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.



I love watching left-wingers who spent 4 years now screaming that Russia threw the election with fake news and media, wiped out Hillary, and that Trump is a pawn of Russia....  Then turn right around and cite RT... the defacto leader of Russian propaganda in an attack on America capitalism.

Putting that aside....

Last year (2018) was a record year for me in income.  I made just under $30,000 a year.  I've never earned that much in my life.  Before that I made about $24,000, and for nearly 10 years, I had an income under $20,000.

So with that as the background, showing that I'm not the high income super elite....  

You post that the world's richest doubled their wealth in the last ten years, and asked "Did you?" .... answer....

Yes!  Yes I did.  More than double in fact.   How did I do this?

It's simple.  You save, and invest.   That's how you do it.   Every single month, for the past ten years, I put money into my investments.

That's how you do it.   That's how you double your net worth.

That means when the market was crashing... I was buying stock.   Now I have doubled my net worth.

You can do that too.  So can anyone.   Stop whining.... start buying.   Instead of crying about the rich, how about doing what rich people do, so you can have some wealth for yourself.


----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> VanceMack said:
> 
> 
> 
> My net and growth has both more than doubled over the last 10 years. My homes and properties I own are at ridiculous levels. My 401k investment is up 38% this year alone. My personal savings remain stable but thats because so much is invested rather than sitting in a bank account.
> 
> And heres the really cool part. None of my gains cost any of you a penny. In fact, the only people that are miserable are the people not working...on welfare, or in every other way they can manage finding a way to kick their own ass. Yeah...THOSE guys have a tendency to bitch about the inherent unfairness of a system that creates such a divide. But if you look past the woes is me mentality you learn there is no system oppressing you. The only people oppressing you are you and that pathetic rat bastard that stares back at you from the mirror every morning.
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations but you missed the point.
> Now run along and count your gold nuggets, Sinbad.
Click to expand...


No, you are the one who missed the point.

The point he's making is, that anyone can be wealthy.  It's a function of you being wise with money.

His point, correctly I should say, is that the rich and wealthy have nothing to do with it.    Him being more wealthy, doesn't take away a dime from you.   Anymore than the rich elite being wealthy, doesn't take a dime from you.

If Warren Buffet lost a billion dollars tomorrow, how would your life change?   If he gained a billion dollars tomorrow, how would your life change?   In both cases, nothing would change.

Bill Gates being a billion more wealthy, or a billion less wealthy, doesn't change your life at all.   It's not like you'll wake up tomorrow in a mansion, because Bill Gates lost a billion dollars.  Nor will you end up in a rat infest studio apartment, because he gained a billion.

Nothing the rich and wealthy do, has any affect on your life.   So why are you even concerned about how much more, or much less, the rich have?   Because you are being ruled by greedy and envy, not rational logic.

If you were thinking rationally and logically, you'd stop this spoiled brat whiny "they got more money!" nonsense.

The point is, anyone can be wealthy, if they invest wisely with their money.  Anyone can.   The reason the poor are poor, has nothing to do with the rich, and everything to with the poor making bad choices with their money.

So crying about the rich, instead of teaching the poor to be wise, is a waste of time.


----------



## Andylusion

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /---/ You think $1,000 is a lot of money to save and invest? Man, you are a loser.
> BTW, I started out at minimum wage and managed to save $1,000 to open a Fidelity account and my first mutual fund *in 1973*. I made $125 a week in advertising and another $60 a weekend bartending. I lived in a furnished studio for $25 a week and lived on simple basic foods. I managed to save $25 - $39 a week. In 8 months I had enough to open a brokerage account. The fund returned about $10 a yar and I always added to it.
> So what's your excuse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /----/ Loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good for you. What makes you think I'm talking about me? I'm doing very well. I'm talking about the 38 million people living in poverty according to the latest census. Here is what  people like you never see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McDonald's Sample Budget Sheet Is Laughable, but Its Implications Are Not
> 
> They recommend you have two jobs per family. They budget $0 for heating. $20 for health insurance.
> 
> You have to remember half of all people are below average intelligence and simply can't lift themselves higher. Do you think those 38 million less than average people can find 38 million higher paying jobs so they can hire a broker?
> .
Click to expand...


I did it.   I did exactly that.  I was earning $20,000 a year, and got myself a broker to open an IRA account, and started dumping money into it every single month.

I am not asking anyone else to do something, that I myself have not done.

And honestly, sometimes on this forum, I feel like I'm one of the few people on this planet that had a real father.  I was always taught that if I didn't like my income or my job, that it was MY DUTY... to take care of MY LIFE.   Sitting around crying tears over how much McDonald's pays, is the refuge of a coward.   Grow a pair of balls, and deal with that yourself.

I had jobs that didn't pay enough.  The way I dealt with it, was a sat around crying on forums about how unfair society was, and that capitalism sucks, and it was all Obama's fault.

If I had done that, I'd still be at that job.  Instead how I really handled it, and how any real man should handle it is.... I quit, and found a job that paid more.

Again, not asking people to do anything I have not done.   Idiotic.

Further, your crying over that budget, is ridiculous.  My first apartment had all electric heat, and in the winter the electric bill was about $90.

Further, the insurance I had last year, was $20 a month.

I don't see anything wrong with that budget.   Second, buy a cheap used car, and get rid of your car payment.  Cancel your cable TV.  Get a pay-go phone.

Look, here's the bottom line......

*Two people working minimum wage in this country, places them in the top 1% of wage earners in the entire world.    Top 1% of the planet.*

You have a husband and wife, working minimum wage at McDonald's, you are now with a standard of living that places you ahead of the other 7.7 Billion people on this planet.

You can make it on two minimum wage incomes.  And honestly, if you are working minimum wage, it's because you suck.    I only worked minimum wage, at one point in my life.  When I was in high school, before I turned 18, I was 17 working 3 hour shifts part time, and making minimum wage.

The year I turned 18, I started working full time, and you automatically got a 50¢ raise just for being full time, and then you got a $1 raise if you worked there for 12-months.  That means in one year, you should at least be $1.50 over the minimum wage.

*If you have been in the work force longer than 2 full years at the very most, and you are still making minimum wage, then you are the problem in your life. * Not society, or capitalism, not McDonald's or the CEOs.   The problem is you.  You are either not putting in the effort, or you are simply not doing your job, or you have some other problem.  But *YOU* are the problem if you are still making just minimum wage.

And by the way... if you stay at McDonald's for longer than 2 years, you should be in management, and moving up the corporate track.  It takes a clear loser to work at McDonald's for years, and still be a fry cook.  You should be in line to be store manager by then.

I was at Advance Auto parts for less than a year, and just because I showed up on time, and did my job consistently, they wanted to enroll me in the management training program.  If I had stayed there, I'd have my own store by now.  Actually by now, I could be a district manager.

If you can't move up from where you are, there is something wrong with you.  Get your butt to work on time, stop taking so many breaks, and start doing your job.


----------



## the other mike

Notice where Japan and Germany are compared with us.

According to the report, the *U.S*. has the most wealthy people in the world with 5,285 individuals hitting the mark of a high-net-worth individual. *Japan and Germany *landed in second and third place with 3,162 and 1,365 wealthy people, respectively.

*These rich countries have high levels of child poverty*


----------



## sparky

disparity stifles any society , lack of quintile mobility ,monopolizing acquisitions , wealth redistribution thru biased legislations have been it's symptoms for a generation 

~S~


----------



## Cellblock2429

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /---/ You think $1,000 is a lot of money to save and invest? Man, you are a loser.
> BTW, I started out at minimum wage and managed to save $1,000 to open a Fidelity account and my first mutual fund *in 1973*. I made $125 a week in advertising and another $60 a weekend bartending. I lived in a furnished studio for $25 a week and lived on simple basic foods. I managed to save $25 - $39 a week. In 8 months I had enough to open a brokerage account. The fund returned about $10 a yar and I always added to it.
> So what's your excuse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /----/ Loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good for you. What makes you think I'm talking about me? I'm doing very well. I'm talking about the 38 million people living in poverty according to the latest census. Here is what  people like you never see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McDonald's Sample Budget Sheet Is Laughable, but Its Implications Are Not
> 
> They recommend you have two jobs per family. They budget $0 for heating. $20 for health insurance.
> 
> You have to remember half of all people are below average intelligence and simply can't lift themselves higher. Do you think those 38 million less than average people can find 38 million higher paying jobs so they can hire a broker?
> .
Click to expand...

/——-/ No one has to hire a broker. Go to a library and read the financial papers, pick a mutual fund. Simple as that. And we’re not talking about special needs people. I’m referring to average intelligence with a high school diploma.


----------



## sparky

Cellblock2429 said:


> No one has to hire a broker.



I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~


----------



## the other mike

sparky said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has to hire a broker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
Click to expand...

Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
*Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*


----------



## Flash

These stupid greedy Moon Bats all bitch about somebody else making more money than themselves but they all voted for that dipshit Obama who not only increase poverty and decreased family income but also increased income disparity. 

They also voted for that corrupt bitch Crooked Hillary that went from "being broke and in debt" (her words) to becoming a mega millionaire.  Talk about income disparity.

They also have the Trump Derangement Syndrome mental illness, which makes them hate Trump.  The disease makes them to ignore the fact that with Trump the US has increased family income, a full employment  economy and millions removed from the welfare rolls.


----------



## the other mike




----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> Notice where Japan and Germany are compared with us.
> 
> According to the report, the *U.S*. has the most wealthy people in the world with 5,285 individuals hitting the mark of a high-net-worth individual. *Japan and Germany *landed in second and third place with 3,162 and 1,365 wealthy people, respectively.
> 
> *These rich countries have high levels of child poverty*



The irony here is amazing.

First, yeah Japan has exceptionally low child poverty rate.  You know what else is low?   People having any children at all.  Their population decline is at crisis levels.

Hey crazy thought....  you think maybe if you have practically no children in your society (relative to population of course), that the rate of child poverty would be low?

Why yes....

Also, Japan has at least one exceptionally strong family value.  They virtually never have a child out of wedlock, because of their cultural values that understand kids out of wedlock is horrible for the child.

You know what else it's bad for?  Child poverty.  One of the highest predictors of child poverty, is having a child out of wedlock. 
So you just made a massive case for conservative family values.

Second....  I love how Mexico has the highest rates of child poverty on your list.  Which amazingly, the largest group of immigrants is from.....  Mexico.

Hey, do you think having the largest population of immigrants in our country from the country with the highest levels of child poverty, might effect our child poverty levels?   Why.... yes... logically it would.

You people never really think any of these issues through, do you?  You just find someone saying something you like, and spout it off here.


----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


>



Um... Ok?  So?   This is what all people, including yourself, would do.

That is the essence of investment.  You put in money.  You grow the company, and then you harvest a result.

Why would you invest in a company, if not to get a return?  You wouldn't.

Left-winger "Mitt Romney stated the universal obvious!  So he must be a bad person!".

Right-wingers (rolls eyes)....


----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has to hire a broker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
Click to expand...


Then how did I double my money in the last 10 years?


----------



## VanceMack

And the true irony is that while the leftist idiots rush to support people like Obama, HRC and Bernie Sanders, it is lost on them that the very people they support are sucking them dry, building up their own bank accounts, buying multiple homes, and laughing at those sad pathetic muppets all the way to the bank.


----------



## Flash

Rich people don't steal my money.

The people that steal my money are the welfare queens that uses the government to increase my taxes.  You know, all these greedy little shithead Democrats that elect big government lawmakers that increase my taxes.

They are the real thieves.

We can stop that thievery by doing away with all welfare, subsidies, grants, bailouts and entitlements.


----------



## VanceMack

Angelo said:


>


You literally know nothing about the things you are posting. You just keep posting random leftist memes without the first clue about what they mean. 

Take that video for example. You think you found something earth shattering because a leftist collective told you what to think. Had you bothered to watch the comments and understand them, you would recognize that what he stated as the goal behind Bain was to identify and invest in companies, put money into them, grow them, so that in 8 years time they would become profitable. How do you think that happens if the business that is invested in isnt growing and hiring people and becoming successful? 

Oh wiat...wait. I get it. You oopse companies like Bain investing in business. YOU would rather do that yourself. Right? YOU would rather invest of your own time, money sweat, blood, and personl equity in seeing a business venture grow. 

Right? 

So I'm sure you can point to your successes so that we can all be inspiured. 

Its pretty amazing. If the leftists out there that bleat on about how 'real' socialism' is successful would actually build the models they bleat on about and demonstrate success, why, our country would literally be filled with successful co-ops hiring people, paying for the poor, opening their doors to the masses...etc. But it doesnt work...YOU dont work, and instead you spend all your life bitching and moaning about the success of others. That success, BTW, which you constantly bitch about, carries people like you through life and pays for the bulk of government and services that you leech off. You would think you might at least have the grace to every once in a while say 'thank you'.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Flash said:


> Rich people don't steal my money.
> 
> The people that steal my money are the welfare queens that uses the government to increase my taxes.  You know, all these greedy little shithead Democrats that elect big government lawmakers that increase my taxes.
> 
> They are the real thieves.
> 
> We can stop that thievery by doing away with all welfare, subsidies, grants, bailouts and entitlements.



The rich are making money by selling goods in China, Vietnam, Mexico, countries that hate us, and the rich helped build up with outsourcing by the rich.

This is not just a national disgrace, a disgrace of our livelihood, its a disgrace of propping up the enemy.


----------



## VanceMack

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rich people don't steal my money.
> 
> The people that steal my money are the welfare queens that uses the government to increase my taxes.  You know, all these greedy little shithead Democrats that elect big government lawmakers that increase my taxes.
> 
> They are the real thieves.
> 
> We can stop that thievery by doing away with all welfare, subsidies, grants, bailouts and entitlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rich are making money by selling goods in China, Vietnam, Mexico, countries that hate us, and the rich helped build up with outsourcing by the rich.
> 
> This is not just a national disgrace, a disgrace of our livelihood, its a disgrace of propping up the enemy.
Click to expand...

So you would submit that if it werent for the rich investing in China, YOU would have started a factory where you churn out cheap promotional crap all the while paying your workers...your 'partners' a living wage and providing for them retirement, healthcare, food, a home, etc?? 

Can you point to where that is happening?

The US left has MANY multi BILLIONAIRES. Why arent they using their own resources to build Shangri La? Today?


----------



## Wuwei

Andylusion said:


> I did it. I did exactly that. I was earning $20,000 a year, and got myself a broker to open an IRA account, and started dumping money into it every single month.
> 
> I am not asking anyone else to do something, that I myself have not done.
> 
> And honestly, sometimes on this forum, I feel like I'm one of the few people on this planet that had a real father. I was always taught that if I didn't like my income or my job, that it was MY DUTY... to take care of MY LIFE. Sitting around crying tears over how much McDonald's pays, is the refuge of a coward. Grow a pair of balls, and deal with that yourself.
> 
> I had jobs that didn't pay enough. The way I dealt with it, was a sat around crying on forums about how unfair society was, and that capitalism sucks, and it was all Obama's fault.
> 
> If I had done that, I'd still be at that job. Instead how I really handled it, and how any real man should handle it is.... I quit, and found a job that paid more.
> 
> Again, not asking people to do anything I have not done. Idiotic.
> 
> Further, your crying over that budget, is ridiculous. My first apartment had all electric heat, and in the winter the electric bill was about $90.
> 
> Further, the insurance I had last year, was $20 a month.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with that budget. Second, buy a cheap used car, and get rid of your car payment. Cancel your cable TV. Get a pay-go phone.
> 
> Look, here's the bottom line......
> 
> *Two people working minimum wage in this country, places them in the top 1% of wage earners in the entire world. Top 1% of the planet.*
> 
> You have a husband and wife, working minimum wage at McDonald's, you are now with a standard of living that places you ahead of the other 7.7 Billion people on this planet.
> 
> You can make it on two minimum wage incomes. And honestly, if you are working minimum wage, it's because you suck. I only worked minimum wage, at one point in my life. When I was in high school, before I turned 18, I was 17 working 3 hour shifts part time, and making minimum wage.
> 
> The year I turned 18, I started working full time, and you automatically got a 50¢ raise just for being full time, and then you got a $1 raise if you worked there for 12-months. That means in one year, you should at least be $1.50 over the minimum wage.
> 
> *If you have been in the work force longer than 2 full years at the very most, and you are still making minimum wage, then you are the problem in your life. * Not society, or capitalism, not McDonald's or the CEOs. The problem is you. You are either not putting in the effort, or you are simply not doing your job, or you have some other problem. But *YOU* are the problem if you are still making just minimum wage.
> 
> And by the way... if you stay at McDonald's for longer than 2 years, you should be in management, and moving up the corporate track. It takes a clear loser to work at McDonald's for years, and still be a fry cook. You should be in line to be store manager by then.
> 
> I was at Advance Auto parts for less than a year, and just because I showed up on time, and did my job consistently, they wanted to enroll me in the management training program. If I had stayed there, I'd have my own store by now. Actually by now, I could be a district manager.
> 
> If you can't move up from where you are, there is something wrong with you. Get your butt to work on time, stop taking so many breaks, and start doing your job


As I said, good for you. I did the same. I was able to work and pay for college without borrowing from my parents or the government. Individually that is possible. Collectively it is not possible. 80% of Americans are in debt. The average personal debt is $38,000. (13.1 trillion collectively) Stupid? Yes. 

If all those people significantly lowered their debt by lowering spending then less goods would be manufactured. Trillions would be lost from the economy, and eventually my stock would go down, but that's the way it is, It seems that the US economy is very strong now, but its a fragile strength. Everyone -- government, corporations, citizens -- are interested in short term prosperity at the risk of long term stability. 

.


----------



## Wuwei

Flash said:


> The people that steal my money are the welfare queens that uses the government to increase my taxes. You know, all these greedy little shithead Democrats that elect big government lawmakers that increase my taxes.
> 
> They are the real thieves.
> 
> We can stop that thievery by doing away with all welfare, subsidies, grants, bailouts and entitlements.


Federal budget and Census data show that with welfare recipients,
53% of people are 65 and up.
20% of people are disabled.
18% have jobs with sub-survival pay.
9% goes to households with non-elderly, non-disabled people, without jobs.

Much of that 9% involves health care and unemployment insurance.
A small fraction of of that 9% are "welfare queens". Yet the right wing acts as though they are the majority of welfare recipients.

If you think too much money is diverted to welfare, I am not going to argue that point. But you really need to look at the wider problem of what to do with these people. "Get a job" does not answer the problem since only 9% are without a job when you subtract those who are too old to work with no savings, too disabled, or receiving sub-survival pay.
.


----------



## Cellblock2429

Wuwei said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did it. I did exactly that. I was earning $20,000 a year, and got myself a broker to open an IRA account, and started dumping money into it every single month.
> 
> I am not asking anyone else to do something, that I myself have not done.
> 
> And honestly, sometimes on this forum, I feel like I'm one of the few people on this planet that had a real father. I was always taught that if I didn't like my income or my job, that it was MY DUTY... to take care of MY LIFE. Sitting around crying tears over how much McDonald's pays, is the refuge of a coward. Grow a pair of balls, and deal with that yourself.
> 
> I had jobs that didn't pay enough. The way I dealt with it, was a sat around crying on forums about how unfair society was, and that capitalism sucks, and it was all Obama's fault.
> 
> If I had done that, I'd still be at that job. Instead how I really handled it, and how any real man should handle it is.... I quit, and found a job that paid more.
> 
> Again, not asking people to do anything I have not done. Idiotic.
> 
> Further, your crying over that budget, is ridiculous. My first apartment had all electric heat, and in the winter the electric bill was about $90.
> 
> Further, the insurance I had last year, was $20 a month.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with that budget. Second, buy a cheap used car, and get rid of your car payment. Cancel your cable TV. Get a pay-go phone.
> 
> Look, here's the bottom line......
> 
> *Two people working minimum wage in this country, places them in the top 1% of wage earners in the entire world. Top 1% of the planet.*
> 
> You have a husband and wife, working minimum wage at McDonald's, you are now with a standard of living that places you ahead of the other 7.7 Billion people on this planet.
> 
> You can make it on two minimum wage incomes. And honestly, if you are working minimum wage, it's because you suck. I only worked minimum wage, at one point in my life. When I was in high school, before I turned 18, I was 17 working 3 hour shifts part time, and making minimum wage.
> 
> The year I turned 18, I started working full time, and you automatically got a 50¢ raise just for being full time, and then you got a $1 raise if you worked there for 12-months. That means in one year, you should at least be $1.50 over the minimum wage.
> 
> *If you have been in the work force longer than 2 full years at the very most, and you are still making minimum wage, then you are the problem in your life. * Not society, or capitalism, not McDonald's or the CEOs. The problem is you. You are either not putting in the effort, or you are simply not doing your job, or you have some other problem. But *YOU* are the problem if you are still making just minimum wage.
> 
> And by the way... if you stay at McDonald's for longer than 2 years, you should be in management, and moving up the corporate track. It takes a clear loser to work at McDonald's for years, and still be a fry cook. You should be in line to be store manager by then.
> 
> I was at Advance Auto parts for less than a year, and just because I showed up on time, and did my job consistently, they wanted to enroll me in the management training program. If I had stayed there, I'd have my own store by now. Actually by now, I could be a district manager.
> 
> If you can't move up from where you are, there is something wrong with you. Get your butt to work on time, stop taking so many breaks, and start doing your job
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, good for you. I did the same. I was able to work and pay for college without borrowing from my parents or the government. Individually that is possible. Collectively it is not possible. 80% of Americans are in debt. The average personal debt is $38,000. (13.1 trillion collectively) Stupid? Yes.
> 
> If all those people significantly lowered their debt by lowering spending then less goods would be manufactured. Trillions would be lost from the economy, and eventually my stock would go down, but that's the way it is, It seems that the US economy is very strong now, but its a fragile strength. Everyone -- government, corporations, citizens -- are interested in short term prosperity at the risk of long term stability.
> 
> .
Click to expand...

/——/ Part of the debt problems arise from high interest credit cards. Learn to live within your means and don’t use credit cards with 20% interest rates. Save up and pay cash. There are many ways people can better manage money.


----------



## Flash

Wuwei said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people that steal my money are the welfare queens that uses the government to increase my taxes. You know, all these greedy little shithead Democrats that elect big government lawmakers that increase my taxes.
> 
> They are the real thieves.
> 
> We can stop that thievery by doing away with all welfare, subsidies, grants, bailouts and entitlements.
> 
> 
> 
> Federal budget and Census data show that with welfare recipients,
> 53% of people are 65 and up.
> 20% of people are disabled.
> 18% have jobs with sub-survival pay.
> 9% goes to households with non-elderly, non-disabled people, without jobs.
> 
> Much of that 9% involves health care and unemployment insurance.
> A small fraction of of that 9% are "welfare queens". Yet the right wing acts as though they are the majority of welfare recipients.
> 
> If you think too much money is diverted to welfare, I am not going to argue that point. But you really need to look at the wider problem of what to do with these people. "Get a job" does not answer the problem since only 9% are without a job when you subtract those who are too old to work with no savings, too disabled, or receiving sub-survival pay.
> .
Click to expand...



I don't give a shit who they are.

We need to stop all government transfer of income.  It is morally wrong for the government to steal my money and give it away to somebody else.  It doesn't make any difference who they are.  GM, Solyndra, farmers, Illegals, Blacks inner city ghetto monkeys, trailer trash Whites, foreign countries, Wall Street banks etc.  None of them earned the money they get.  I am the one that earned it.

That is where the real thievery in this country is taking place.  It is not because Bill Gates makes more than I do and there is a growing disparity between my wealth and his.  It is because the filthy ass welfare state takes my money and gives it away to some filthy Democrat or Republican voting block.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.



*Did you ? Not very likely.*

Better than a double.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Muhammed said:


> Sounds like the OP is a jelly belly.



When his source is RT, it's safe to say he's a Commie.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just the rich.  It's anyone who is invested in the market.  And people's retirement funds are doing great.  You always play the victim, don't you?  Invest in America and come out a winner!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More power to ya Brisko.
> 
> Americans *Lost* over *$10* *Trillion* in investment/retirement funds and home equity in 2008 and they say the next crash will be_ much worse_.
> 
> *America Lost $10.2 Trillion In 2008*
Click to expand...


U.S. household net worth $113.5 trillion in second-quarter 2019

Made it all back and then some.

*and they say the next crash will be much worse.*​
Meh.​


----------



## Wuwei

Flash said:


> I don't give a shit who they are.
> 
> We need to stop all government transfer of income. It is morally wrong for the government to steal my money and give it away to somebody else. It doesn't make any difference who they are. GM, Solyndra, farmers, Illegals, Blacks inner city ghetto monkeys, trailer trash Whites, foreign countries, Wall Street banks etc. None of them earned the money they get. I am the one that earned it.
> 
> That is where the real thievery in this country is taking place. It is not because Bill Gates makes more than I do and there is a growing disparity between my wealth and his. It is because the filthy ass welfare state takes my money and gives it away to some filthy Democrat or Republican voting block.


Yeah, it would be nice if our taxes went down, but what do you think would happen to the US if welfare ended? Many families literally would starve. With Medicaid gone, since you "don't give a shit" you would let them die?. I would bet that voters would get rid of most politicians who would eliminate all welfare.
.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /----/ And if in 2009 you'd put $1,000 in the S&P 500 spyder, you would have more than TRIPLED your money. S&P 500 - 10 Year Daily Chart
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah right, tell that to the millions of families in debt or with no savings because they work at minimum wage jobs.
Click to expand...


I invested in the market when I was in debt.


----------



## the other mike

Toddsterpatriot said:


> U.S. household net worth $113.5 trillion in second-quarter 2019
> 
> Made it all back and then some.
> 
> *and they say the next crash will be much worse.*
> 
> Meh.​


Not like I just made it up.
*The next crash: why the world is unprepared for the economic dangers ahead*

*Americans Are Not Prepared for the Coming Mother of All Stock Market Crashes*
*https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/05/30/40347971/americans-are-not-prepared-for-the-coming-mother-of-all-stock-market-crashes*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Wuwei said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /---/ You think $1,000 is a lot of money to save and invest? Man, you are a loser.
> BTW, I started out at minimum wage and managed to save $1,000 to open a Fidelity account and my first mutual fund *in 1973*. I made $125 a week in advertising and another $60 a weekend bartending. I lived in a furnished studio for $25 a week and lived on simple basic foods. I managed to save $25 - $39 a week. In 8 months I had enough to open a brokerage account. The fund returned about $10 a yar and I always added to it.
> So what's your excuse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> /----/ Loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good for you. What makes you think I'm talking about me? I'm doing very well. I'm talking about the 38 million people living in poverty according to the latest census. Here is what  people like you never see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McDonald's Sample Budget Sheet Is Laughable, but Its Implications Are Not
> 
> They recommend you have two jobs per family. They budget $0 for heating. $20 for health insurance.
> 
> You have to remember half of all people are below average intelligence and simply can't lift themselves higher. Do you think those 38 million less than average people can find 38 million higher paying jobs so they can hire a broker?
Click to expand...


*You have to remember half of all people are below average intelligence and simply can't lift themselves higher. Do you think those 38 million less than average people can find 38 million higher paying jobs so they can hire a broker?*

Good points. We really need to boot 20 million illegal aliens and secure the border.​


----------



## Jitss617

Angelo said:


> Did you ? Not very likely.
> 
> *World's Richest People Have More Than Doubled Their Wealth Since 2008*
> 
> Here's a peek at the rising tide of inequality that shows no signs of slowing down.


Umm wages have been going up


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has to hire a broker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
Click to expand...


I hate it when a company buys back stock and makes the price go up.

Just awful!!

Almost the worst thing ever.


----------



## Flash

Wuwei said:


> [
> 
> Yeah, it would be nice if our taxes went down, but what do you think would happen to the US if welfare ended? Many families literally would starve. With Medicaid gone, since you "don't give a shit" you would let them die?. I would bet that voters would get rid of most politicians who would eliminate all welfare.
> .



This a full employment economy now thanks to Trump.  If you would starve then it would be your own damn fault.

With less taxes people would have more money to contribute to charity to help those few that really need help.  After all the Bible teaches that charity should come from the heart, church and family.  Nothing about a big bloated corrupt debt ridden welfare state. 

It is morally wrong for the government to steal your many and give it away to somebody else.  You should have the Liberty to decide if you want to help somebody else or not.  You do believe in Liberty, don't you?  If you are a Left then I doubt you do.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. household net worth $113.5 trillion in second-quarter 2019
> 
> Made it all back and then some.
> 
> *and they say the next crash will be much worse.*
> 
> Meh.​
> 
> 
> 
> Not like I just made it up.
> *The next crash: why the world is unprepared for the economic dangers ahead*
> 
> *Americans Are Not Prepared for the Coming Mother of All Stock Market Crashes*
> *https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/05/30/40347971/americans-are-not-prepared-for-the-coming-mother-of-all-stock-market-crashes*
Click to expand...


*Not like I just made it up.*

Yeah, your 26 year old British socialist author is very convincing. LOL!


----------



## DGS49

Worrying about "inequality" is sort of a litmus test for morons.

People who are not morons understand that it costs them nothing when someone else accumulates wealth, and also that the accumulation of wealth by so many people is proof that THEY, TOO can accumulate wealth.  No guarantees, but it can happen.

Non-morons also know that if there is "wealth problem," it is not that Rich People are getting richer, but that lots of poor people remain poor, through no fault of their own.  If "we" focus our attention on those endemically poor people who are doing everything right but still can't get ahead, "we" will all be a lot better off.  And while there will always be disagreement about what to do about endemic poverty, at least we can ALL agree that it is worthy of fighting, together.

But by focusing on "inequality," morons take their eye off the figurative ball and generate envy rather than mobilizing useful energy for a worthwhile cause.

One more reason why I hate Leftists.


----------



## the other mike

The previous 2 posters' hero ;


----------



## Markle

Wuwei said:


> Federal budget and Census data show that with welfare recipients,
> 53% of people are 65 and up.
> 20% of people are disabled.
> 18% have jobs with sub-survival pay.
> 9% goes to households with non-elderly, non-disabled people, without jobs.
> 
> Much of that 9% involves health care and unemployment insurance.
> A small fraction of of that 9% are "welfare queens". Yet the right wing acts as though they are the majority of welfare recipients.
> 
> If you think too much money is diverted to welfare, I am not going to argue that point. But you really need to look at the wider problem of what to do with these people. "Get a job" does not answer the problem since only 9% are without a job when you subtract those who are too old to work with no savings, too disabled, or receiving sub-survival pay.








9 Surprising Facts About Welfare Recipients


----------



## Andylusion

Wuwei said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did it. I did exactly that. I was earning $20,000 a year, and got myself a broker to open an IRA account, and started dumping money into it every single month.
> 
> I am not asking anyone else to do something, that I myself have not done.
> 
> And honestly, sometimes on this forum, I feel like I'm one of the few people on this planet that had a real father. I was always taught that if I didn't like my income or my job, that it was MY DUTY... to take care of MY LIFE. Sitting around crying tears over how much McDonald's pays, is the refuge of a coward. Grow a pair of balls, and deal with that yourself.
> 
> I had jobs that didn't pay enough. The way I dealt with it, was a sat around crying on forums about how unfair society was, and that capitalism sucks, and it was all Obama's fault.
> 
> If I had done that, I'd still be at that job. Instead how I really handled it, and how any real man should handle it is.... I quit, and found a job that paid more.
> 
> Again, not asking people to do anything I have not done. Idiotic.
> 
> Further, your crying over that budget, is ridiculous. My first apartment had all electric heat, and in the winter the electric bill was about $90.
> 
> Further, the insurance I had last year, was $20 a month.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with that budget. Second, buy a cheap used car, and get rid of your car payment. Cancel your cable TV. Get a pay-go phone.
> 
> Look, here's the bottom line......
> 
> *Two people working minimum wage in this country, places them in the top 1% of wage earners in the entire world. Top 1% of the planet.*
> 
> You have a husband and wife, working minimum wage at McDonald's, you are now with a standard of living that places you ahead of the other 7.7 Billion people on this planet.
> 
> You can make it on two minimum wage incomes. And honestly, if you are working minimum wage, it's because you suck. I only worked minimum wage, at one point in my life. When I was in high school, before I turned 18, I was 17 working 3 hour shifts part time, and making minimum wage.
> 
> The year I turned 18, I started working full time, and you automatically got a 50¢ raise just for being full time, and then you got a $1 raise if you worked there for 12-months. That means in one year, you should at least be $1.50 over the minimum wage.
> 
> *If you have been in the work force longer than 2 full years at the very most, and you are still making minimum wage, then you are the problem in your life. * Not society, or capitalism, not McDonald's or the CEOs. The problem is you. You are either not putting in the effort, or you are simply not doing your job, or you have some other problem. But *YOU* are the problem if you are still making just minimum wage.
> 
> And by the way... if you stay at McDonald's for longer than 2 years, you should be in management, and moving up the corporate track. It takes a clear loser to work at McDonald's for years, and still be a fry cook. You should be in line to be store manager by then.
> 
> I was at Advance Auto parts for less than a year, and just because I showed up on time, and did my job consistently, they wanted to enroll me in the management training program. If I had stayed there, I'd have my own store by now. Actually by now, I could be a district manager.
> 
> If you can't move up from where you are, there is something wrong with you. Get your butt to work on time, stop taking so many breaks, and start doing your job
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, good for you. I did the same. I was able to work and pay for college without borrowing from my parents or the government. Individually that is possible. Collectively it is not possible. 80% of Americans are in debt. The average personal debt is $38,000. (13.1 trillion collectively) Stupid? Yes.
> 
> If all those people significantly lowered their debt by lowering spending then less goods would be manufactured. Trillions would be lost from the economy, and eventually my stock would go down, but that's the way it is, It seems that the US economy is very strong now, but its a fragile strength. Everyone -- government, corporations, citizens -- are interested in short term prosperity at the risk of long term stability.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


I don't understand that concept.  Individually it's possible, but collectively it is not?  How does that work?   The collective, is made up of nothing more than a group of individuals.

If any individual can work through college, then obviously any individual can work their way through college, and thus collectively it is possible.

It doesn't matter what the average personal debt is, because that is simply a function of personal choices.

*If all those people significantly lowered their debt by lowering spending then less goods would be manufactured. Trillions would be lost from the economy, and eventually my stock would go down, but that's the way it is, It seems that the US economy is very strong now, but its a fragile strength. Everyone -- government, corporations, citizens -- are interested in short term prosperity at the risk of long term stability. *

Nonsense.  That's what the banks want us to believe, because debt is what the banks live off of.  The reality isn't close to that.

The reality is, it is the debt system that causes us to lose trillions from the economy.   Getting people to live debt free, would result in trillions in growth.

Just think about it logically.  Under which system is there more goods and services purchased?

A:  You buy a $1,000 laptop with cash.
B:  You buy a $1,000 laptop on credit.

Which results in more goods and services being purchased?    Option A does.  Buying the laptop with cash results in more goods and services being purchased.

Why?   Because if you buy on credit, that laptop may still cost $1,000, but you pay $1,200, with $200 going to the bank.   That $200 going to the bank, is $200 less in goods and services that you can buy.

If you buy the laptop with cash, then you have $200 you didn't send to the bank, that you can buy goods and services with.

The average American, is shelling out $850 in credit interest per year, and $900 in car interest per year.

That is $1,750 of goods and services they could be buying, that they are instead sending to the banks.

If every single American in debt, paid down their debt, and were spending an extra $1,750 a year in goods and services, that would be a massive boast to the economy.   It would not being trillions lost.  It would be trillions gained.

Additionally even in the short term, we would see gains, because when people pay down debts, they usually do so over a period of time.  During this period of paying down the debt, they are still active in the economy.   Just because you pay an extra $200 on debt, doesn't mean you completely unplug from the economy.

On the other hand, if you end up bankrupt, you typically end up completely unplugged from the economy.   This happened to me.  I didn't actually file bankruptcy protection, but I was in fact bankrupt.  I had no money, and tons of debt.  I ended up having to move back home with my parents, and I basically worked just to pay debt.  I didn't buy anything.  Not even clothes.  I ate at the parents, and had no bills, just pay off debt.  I did nothing, but slave for the banks.

That is far more negative to the economy, to be completely unplugged to pay debt, than it is to wisely budget to pay down debt over a period of time.   But I didn't have a choice.  The debt was so large, and my income so small at that time, that it was either disconnect from all of society, and just pay debt, or I was going to end up sued by a bank.

So I reject this notion that if everyone started paying down their debts, that there would be a huge negative cost.  No, I suggest it would be entirely positive.


----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> The previous 2 posters' hero ;



Irony being, that between us and you, you are the one complaining that other people have money.   That makes YOU the greedy one.


----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. household net worth $113.5 trillion in second-quarter 2019
> 
> Made it all back and then some.
> 
> *and they say the next crash will be much worse.*
> 
> Meh.​
> 
> 
> 
> Not like I just made it up.
> *The next crash: why the world is unprepared for the economic dangers ahead*
> 
> *Americans Are Not Prepared for the Coming Mother of All Stock Market Crashes*
> *https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/05/30/40347971/americans-are-not-prepared-for-the-coming-mother-of-all-stock-market-crashes*
Click to expand...


You do realize that when the stock market crashes, the stocks are on sale, right?

That is literally how I doubled my money in 2007.   When the stock prices were falling, I was buying them.

How can you "Buy low, and sell high", if you first don't "buy low"?

Because stocks don't just keep falling until they are worth zero.  That never happens, because the companies still exist.   Apple's stock price can drop 50%, and I'd still buy the stock... because Apple isn't going anywhere.

So instead of freaking out...  start investing.


----------



## the other mike

Andylusion said:


> You do realize that when the stock market crashes, the stocks are on sale, right?
> 
> That is literally how I doubled my money in 2007.   When the stock prices were falling, I was buying them.
> 
> How can you "Buy low, and sell high", if you first don't "buy low"?
> 
> Because stocks don't just keep falling until they are worth zero.  That never happens, because the companies still exist.   Apple's stock price can drop 50%, and I'd still buy the stock... because Apple isn't going anywhere.
> 
> So instead of freaking out...  start investing.


What you just said is
"When the tornado hit, my house was the only one in the neighborhood still standing." , and you attribute it to being smarter than everyone else, not just lucky that God wasn't ready to take you that day.


----------



## Wuwei

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I invested in the market when I was in debt.


That's good. One down and 80% of the rest of Americans to go.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Andylusion said:


> Wuwei said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did it. I did exactly that. I was earning $20,000 a year, and got myself a broker to open an IRA account, and started dumping money into it every single month.
> 
> I am not asking anyone else to do something, that I myself have not done.
> 
> And honestly, sometimes on this forum, I feel like I'm one of the few people on this planet that had a real father. I was always taught that if I didn't like my income or my job, that it was MY DUTY... to take care of MY LIFE. Sitting around crying tears over how much McDonald's pays, is the refuge of a coward. Grow a pair of balls, and deal with that yourself.
> 
> I had jobs that didn't pay enough. The way I dealt with it, was a sat around crying on forums about how unfair society was, and that capitalism sucks, and it was all Obama's fault.
> 
> If I had done that, I'd still be at that job. Instead how I really handled it, and how any real man should handle it is.... I quit, and found a job that paid more.
> 
> Again, not asking people to do anything I have not done. Idiotic.
> 
> Further, your crying over that budget, is ridiculous. My first apartment had all electric heat, and in the winter the electric bill was about $90.
> 
> Further, the insurance I had last year, was $20 a month.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with that budget. Second, buy a cheap used car, and get rid of your car payment. Cancel your cable TV. Get a pay-go phone.
> 
> Look, here's the bottom line......
> 
> *Two people working minimum wage in this country, places them in the top 1% of wage earners in the entire world. Top 1% of the planet.*
> 
> You have a husband and wife, working minimum wage at McDonald's, you are now with a standard of living that places you ahead of the other 7.7 Billion people on this planet.
> 
> You can make it on two minimum wage incomes. And honestly, if you are working minimum wage, it's because you suck. I only worked minimum wage, at one point in my life. When I was in high school, before I turned 18, I was 17 working 3 hour shifts part time, and making minimum wage.
> 
> The year I turned 18, I started working full time, and you automatically got a 50¢ raise just for being full time, and then you got a $1 raise if you worked there for 12-months. That means in one year, you should at least be $1.50 over the minimum wage.
> 
> *If you have been in the work force longer than 2 full years at the very most, and you are still making minimum wage, then you are the problem in your life. * Not society, or capitalism, not McDonald's or the CEOs. The problem is you. You are either not putting in the effort, or you are simply not doing your job, or you have some other problem. But *YOU* are the problem if you are still making just minimum wage.
> 
> And by the way... if you stay at McDonald's for longer than 2 years, you should be in management, and moving up the corporate track. It takes a clear loser to work at McDonald's for years, and still be a fry cook. You should be in line to be store manager by then.
> 
> I was at Advance Auto parts for less than a year, and just because I showed up on time, and did my job consistently, they wanted to enroll me in the management training program. If I had stayed there, I'd have my own store by now. Actually by now, I could be a district manager.
> 
> If you can't move up from where you are, there is something wrong with you. Get your butt to work on time, stop taking so many breaks, and start doing your job
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, good for you. I did the same. I was able to work and pay for college without borrowing from my parents or the government. Individually that is possible. Collectively it is not possible. 80% of Americans are in debt. The average personal debt is $38,000. (13.1 trillion collectively) Stupid? Yes.
> 
> If all those people significantly lowered their debt by lowering spending then less goods would be manufactured. Trillions would be lost from the economy, and eventually my stock would go down, but that's the way it is, It seems that the US economy is very strong now, but its a fragile strength. Everyone -- government, corporations, citizens -- are interested in short term prosperity at the risk of long term stability.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't understand that concept.  Individually it's possible, but collectively it is not?  How does that work?   The collective, is made up of nothing more than a group of individuals.
> 
> If any individual can work through college, then obviously any individual can work their way through college, and thus collectively it is possible.
> 
> It doesn't matter what the average personal debt is, because that is simply a function of personal choices.
> 
> *If all those people significantly lowered their debt by lowering spending then less goods would be manufactured. Trillions would be lost from the economy, and eventually my stock would go down, but that's the way it is, It seems that the US economy is very strong now, but its a fragile strength. Everyone -- government, corporations, citizens -- are interested in short term prosperity at the risk of long term stability. *
> 
> Nonsense.  That's what the banks want us to believe, because debt is what the banks live off of.  The reality isn't close to that.
> 
> The reality is, it is the debt system that causes us to lose trillions from the economy.   Getting people to live debt free, would result in trillions in growth.
> 
> Just think about it logically.  Under which system is there more goods and services purchased?
> 
> A:  You buy a $1,000 laptop with cash.
> B:  You buy a $1,000 laptop on credit.
> 
> Which results in more goods and services being purchased?    Option A does.  Buying the laptop with cash results in more goods and services being purchased.
> 
> Why?   Because if you buy on credit, that laptop may still cost $1,000, but you pay $1,200, with $200 going to the bank.   That $200 going to the bank, is $200 less in goods and services that you can buy.
> 
> If you buy the laptop with cash, then you have $200 you didn't send to the bank, that you can buy goods and services with.
> 
> The average American, is shelling out $850 in credit interest per year, and $900 in car interest per year.
> 
> That is $1,750 of goods and services they could be buying, that they are instead sending to the banks.
> 
> If every single American in debt, paid down their debt, and were spending an extra $1,750 a year in goods and services, that would be a massive boast to the economy.   It would not being trillions lost.  It would be trillions gained.
> 
> Additionally even in the short term, we would see gains, because when people pay down debts, they usually do so over a period of time.  During this period of paying down the debt, they are still active in the economy.   Just because you pay an extra $200 on debt, doesn't mean you completely unplug from the economy.
> 
> On the other hand, if you end up bankrupt, you typically end up completely unplugged from the economy.   This happened to me.  I didn't actually file bankruptcy protection, but I was in fact bankrupt.  I had no money, and tons of debt.  I ended up having to move back home with my parents, and I basically worked just to pay debt.  I didn't buy anything.  Not even clothes.  I ate at the parents, and had no bills, just pay off debt.  I did nothing, but slave for the banks.
> 
> That is far more negative to the economy, to be completely unplugged to pay debt, than it is to wisely budget to pay down debt over a period of time.   But I didn't have a choice.  The debt was so large, and my income so small at that time, that it was either disconnect from all of society, and just pay debt, or I was going to end up sued by a bank.
> 
> So I reject this notion that if everyone started paying down their debts, that there would be a huge negative cost.  No, I suggest it would be entirely positive.
Click to expand...


*Which results in more goods and services being purchased? Option A does. Buying the laptop with cash results in more goods and services being purchased.*

The people lending you the money, and earning interest, also purchase goods and services.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Wuwei said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I invested in the market when I was in debt.
> 
> 
> 
> That's good. One down and 80% of the rest of Americans to go.
Click to expand...


If you wait until you're debt free to invest, you won't do much investing.


----------



## Wuwei

Andylusion said:


> I don't understand that concept. Individually it's possible, but collectively it is not? How does that work? The collective, is made up of nothing more than a group of individuals.
> 
> If any individual can work through college, then obviously any individual can work their way through college, and thus collectively it is possible.
> 
> It doesn't matter what the average personal debt is, because that is simply a function of personal choices.


Yes, any individual can in principle, but I'm talking about what will happen in practice. I will amend my statement to "highly improbable" that everyone can work their way through college.



Andylusion said:


> The reality is, it is the debt system that causes us to lose trillions from the economy. Getting people to live debt free, would result in trillions in growth.
> 
> Just think about it logically. Under which system is there more goods and services purchased?
> 
> A: You buy a $1,000 laptop with cash.
> B: You buy a $1,000 laptop on credit.
> 
> Which results in more goods and services being purchased? Option A does. Buying the laptop with cash results in more goods and services being purchased.
> 
> Why? Because if you buy on credit, that laptop may still cost $1,000, but you pay $1,200, with $200 going to the bank. That $200 going to the bank, is $200 less in goods and services that you can buy.


The reality is to live debt free and pay cash? That's a nice sort of utopia. However, say your laptop and refrigerator are old and barely functional. Your 12 year old car has 170,000 miles on it. Your hospital just sent you a "surprise bill". You have just enough money in the bank to barely pay utilities and mortgage. You have $2000 in savings. What do you do? I don't think you are going to put more money in the stock market and pay cash for everything else.



Andylusion said:


> If every single American in debt, paid down their debt, and were spending an extra $1,750 a year in goods and services, that would be a massive boast to the economy. It would not being trillions lost. It would be trillions gained.
> 
> Additionally even in the short term, we would see gains, because when people pay down debts, they usually do so over a period of time. During this period of paying down the debt, they are still active in the economy. Just because you pay an extra $200 on debt, doesn't mean you completely unplug from the economy.


"If every single American in debt...." That is 80% of Americans. Nice in principle, but most don't have the fortitude or capability to pay down debt and buy more stuff.



Andylusion said:


> On the other hand, if you end up bankrupt, you typically end up completely unplugged from the economy. This happened to me. I didn't actually file bankruptcy protection, but I was in fact bankrupt. I had no money, and tons of debt. I ended up having to move back home with my parents, and I basically worked just to pay debt. I didn't buy anything. Not even clothes. I ate at the parents, and had no bills, just pay off debt. I did nothing, but slave for the banks.


Good move. But that is a case in point. You were following the 80%. But a family of four can't move back to their parents and stop spending.


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## Wuwei

Toddsterpatriot said:


> If you wait until you're debt free to invest, you won't do much investing.


I absolutely agree. But it's a small percentage that can prevent living from hand to mouth. I'm thinking of the whole population, not just the few with fortitude.


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## Markle

Andylusion said:


> Why? Because if you buy on credit, that laptop may still cost $1,000, but you pay $1,200, with $200 going to the bank. That $200 going to the bank, is $200 less in goods and services that you can buy.



Does the $200.00 made by the bank just go into a black hole?  No, that money pays the employee at the bank who goes out and uses that $200.00 to put down on a new laptop, or groceries for the week.  Either that or the bank now has $1,200.00 to loan to someone else to buy an even better laptop.


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## Cellblock2429

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has to hire a broker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate it when a company buys back stock and makes the price go up.
> 
> Just awful!!
> 
> Almost the worst thing ever.
Click to expand...

/----/ I can't stand it when a company beats estimates and sends the price soaring.


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## Toddsterpatriot

Cellblock2429 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has to hire a broker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate it when a company buys back stock and makes the price go up.
> 
> Just awful!!
> 
> Almost the worst thing ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /----/ I can't stand it when a company beats estimates and sends the price soaring.
Click to expand...


Companies are the worst.
Poor people should never buy any stock...…..


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## Markle

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has to hire a broker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate it when a company buys back stock and makes the price go up.
> 
> Just awful!!
> 
> Almost the worst thing ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /----/ I can't stand it when a company beats estimates and sends the price soaring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Companies are the worst.
> Poor people should never buy any stock...…..
Click to expand...


----------



## Cellblock2429

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one has to hire a broker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate it when a company buys back stock and makes the price go up.
> 
> Just awful!!
> 
> Almost the worst thing ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /----/ I can't stand it when a company beats estimates and sends the price soaring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Companies are the worst.
> Poor people should never buy any stock...…..
Click to expand...

/—-/ Poor people need to stay poor so democRATs can get elected again and again and again and again and again...


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## Toddsterpatriot

Markle said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinkin' more hire a congress critter....~S~
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hate it when a company buys back stock and makes the price go up.
> 
> Just awful!!
> 
> Almost the worst thing ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /----/ I can't stand it when a company beats estimates and sends the price soaring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Companies are the worst.
> Poor people should never buy any stock...…..
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Somebody has to protect the poor people from making any profits.


----------



## Cellblock2429

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cellblock2429 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you're already rich, Wall Street is rigged against you.
> *Stock buybacks are set to hit a record $1 trillion this year, even as presidential candidates try to restrict them | Markets Insider*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it when a company buys back stock and makes the price go up.
> 
> Just awful!!
> 
> Almost the worst thing ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /----/ I can't stand it when a company beats estimates and sends the price soaring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Companies are the worst.
> Poor people should never buy any stock...…..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Somebody has to protect the poor people from making any profits.
Click to expand...

/—-/ DemocRATs need to get rid of Trump so they can put a halt to this madness: Wages for typical workers are rising at their fastest rate in a decade


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## the other mike




----------



## VanceMack

Wuwei said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand that concept. Individually it's possible, but collectively it is not? How does that work? The collective, is made up of nothing more than a group of individuals.
> 
> If any individual can work through college, then obviously any individual can work their way through college, and thus collectively it is possible.
> 
> It doesn't matter what the average personal debt is, because that is simply a function of personal choices.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, any individual can in principle, but I'm talking about what will happen in practice. I will amend my statement to "highly improbable" that everyone can work their way through college.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reality is, it is the debt system that causes us to lose trillions from the economy. Getting people to live debt free, would result in trillions in growth.
> 
> Just think about it logically. Under which system is there more goods and services purchased?
> 
> A: You buy a $1,000 laptop with cash.
> B: You buy a $1,000 laptop on credit.
> 
> Which results in more goods and services being purchased? Option A does. Buying the laptop with cash results in more goods and services being purchased.
> 
> Why? Because if you buy on credit, that laptop may still cost $1,000, but you pay $1,200, with $200 going to the bank. That $200 going to the bank, is $200 less in goods and services that you can buy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The reality is to live debt free and pay cash? That's a nice sort of utopia. However, say your laptop and refrigerator are old and barely functional. Your 12 year old car has 170,000 miles on it. Your hospital just sent you a "surprise bill". You have just enough money in the bank to barely pay utilities and mortgage. You have $2000 in savings. What do you do? I don't think you are going to put more money in the stock market and pay cash for everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> If every single American in debt, paid down their debt, and were spending an extra $1,750 a year in goods and services, that would be a massive boast to the economy. It would not being trillions lost. It would be trillions gained.
> 
> Additionally even in the short term, we would see gains, because when people pay down debts, they usually do so over a period of time. During this period of paying down the debt, they are still active in the economy. Just because you pay an extra $200 on debt, doesn't mean you completely unplug from the economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "If every single American in debt...." That is 80% of Americans. Nice in principle, but most don't have the fortitude or capability to pay down debt and buy more stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, if you end up bankrupt, you typically end up completely unplugged from the economy. This happened to me. I didn't actually file bankruptcy protection, but I was in fact bankrupt. I had no money, and tons of debt. I ended up having to move back home with my parents, and I basically worked just to pay debt. I didn't buy anything. Not even clothes. I ate at the parents, and had no bills, just pay off debt. I did nothing, but slave for the banks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What most successful people did in the situation you described was took on a second or third job, bought used appliances, paid off debt, all while continuing to improve on an employment future that provides opportunity for growth. And yeah...that can mean 20-30 years of really and truly busting your ass to see major dividends. But thats how it is done. Success...especially for those that didnt do a great job of preparing themselves for it as teenagers...comes with long periods of sustained hard work with a clearly defined goal. And even though it is hard (always has been) success is as attainable now as it has always been.
> Good move. But that is a case in point. You were following the 80%. But a family of four can't move back to their parents and stop spending.
Click to expand...


----------



## VanceMack

Angelo said:


>


:lamo

Your videos are comedy. They have no basis in reality. Everything offered assumes that somewhere out ther there is a magic wealth distribution fairy (WDF) and the WDF is just distributing the wealth of the world to the rich...not to all people equally.Whats truly sad is they KNOW that if they start using words like 'distribution' and fair', muttonheads will hear it and think..."yeah! Its NOT fair...we deserve MORE!!! How come the WDF doesnt give US more money?"

Which is of course, bullshit, because Jeff Bezos did not have his wealth magically distributed to him...he earned it.


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