# Health Scare Crisis



## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

Watching these celebrities die over the last year and a half or so, if you go all the way back to Heath Ledger, sort of made me think again and sort of re-evaluate things. Especially the recent Billy Mays deal. Turns out he had a heart condition, according to latest reports, and I also found out he had two hip replacements and was in constant pain from those.

But here's the deal: I have never, ever gone to see a doctor, never had a check-up, only had medical treatment for injuries like my broken ankle, had both knees scoped back in the 90s, and various other broken bones. Have never and never will have health insurance.

I abhor medicines, pills and the like. Have an aversion to anything medical in general. But I also have never been sick. Ever.

When I was young, my grandfather one day told me something I have always carried with me. Paraphrased it goes, "if you think something is bad for you, don't do it. Whether it's smokin, drinkin, eatin stuff, whatever it is. Because if you believe it's bad for you, it will be. And don't let anyone, especially the people planners, tell you what to eat, drink, smoke, whatever. Or not to. YOU make that call when YOU are ready."

He lived to be up in his 90s, smoked and drank all of his adult life. Was healthy as can be when he died in his sleep. But long before that, I'd taken his advice and as the years went by, I realized what he was actually doing by telling me that.

The Pygmalion Effect, the self-fulfilling prophesy. Plant negative seeds and they will grow. Plant positive seeds and they will. It is literally mind over matter. But there's one BIG negative seed you have to eschew totally: Fear.

Yep, fear. Fear of getting sick and dying. Fear of heart attacks. Health fear. You have to completely let that go. Live. Without. Fear. Sounds hard doesn't it? Especially today?

But here's the thing folks -- All of these celebrities who have died recently had one thing in common -- the very best health care money could buy! Yeah, regular check-ups, best preventative care there is. Jacko even had a doctor living in his house to the tune of $300K a year. Where did it get them?

When your time is up, that is it. You are dead. No doctors, medicines, none of that crap means jack shit when your time is up. It's reality, accept it. Why do we have this fear of not having health care? because we think we can control our longevity. That is an_ illusion_. Control is an illusion. Also perhaps because of the fear of dying. That's coming anyway no matter what, why fear it?

Eschew this irrational, mindless fear. Get the negative seeds out of your health life. Live your life the way YOU want, it's yours and no one else's. It IS mind over matter, and it DOES work. My Granddad was never sick a day in his life, and never went to a doctor either.

Will I live to be in my 90s? No one knows. And that's the deal, you don't know so why should you worry about it. Know why the placebo effect works? Same reason, mind over matter. The Pygmalion Effect in practice. A positive seed is planted in the patient's mind, he's given a sugar pill that is touted to be a "cure" and By Gawd, his mind heals him! Or stops pain, or whatever!

Great ain't it?

Harness that power we all have, by killing the negative seeds such as fear, and mortality. Live a long, happy, healthy and prosperous life.

Don't worry, be happy! And stay away from the quackass medicos and their potions, prescriptions, and outright garbage! YOU have the power, if you will harness it and use it.


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## alan1 (Jun 29, 2009)

They call it "practicing" medicine for a reason.


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

o back up the short bus there mm....normally when rich people are getting check up they dont reveal the true amount of drug use they are doing...what do many of these so callled celbs have in common....prescription drug abuse...let me explain it to you...you doctor shop or like jackson you have someone paying (o2 insurance) for the doctor...ledger had enough drugs in him to stop a horse....so did mj....do did annie nicole...

now i think its pretty sorry that there is no way to stop the doctors from writing script after script for not needed meds....its like a doctor ask me...."do you exercise"..i reply "your looking at my fat ass asking me that?"....sometimes you just got to respond with the inner voice...

i have to see a doc..which i am long overdue for....a couple of months...for skin cancerl....the good kind...but like she says...catch stuff before whiles its small...now my oral surgeon gives me drugs...but bless his little heart...he seems to know from experience...how many i need for the pain...and he gives me one extra lol ...when i ask my dermo about pain killers..she replied she sure could use some...i could use advil...but it has nothing to do with insurance etc...

has everything to do with not telling your doctor the truth....and over abusing script drugs...hey i am all for legalizing drugs...darwins theory at work...


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> o back up the short bus there mm....normally when rich people are getting check up they dont reveal the true amount of drug use they are doing...what do many of these so callled celbs have in common....prescription drug abuse...let me explain it to you...you doctor shop or like jackson you have someone paying (o2 insurance) for the doctor...ledger had enough drugs in him to stop a horse....so did mj....do did annie nicole...
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> now i think its pretty sorry that there is no way to stop the doctors from writing script after script for not needed meds....its like a doctor ask me...."do you exercise"..i reply "your looking at my fat ass asking me that?"....sometimes you just got to respond with the inner voice...
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I always tell doctors the truth. I say, quite simply, "I don't need you. Get lost."

Think about what you said about drugs. All folks who either O.D. or just waste away, KNOW that shit is bad for them, but did it anyway. I KNOW that shit is bad for me, so I don't DO it.

See?


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

one thing i have noticed....small hospitals do things a wee bit different too....my fil...was in a large hospital....presented with the following....stomach pain...high fever...high white blood count....now at the little hospital he would be in surgery in a couple of hours...taking out the appendix...sure a few good ones came out...but they normally were bad and if not gave the doctor a quick peek to see if he could find anything obvious...at large hospital they began to run tests...4 days later he had e coli in his blood and they took out his appendix...now if a fucking admitting clerk could easily guess the treatment why the hell couldnt this multi million dollar medical hospital not?


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

yes i see...but you must have some vices....you are talking about smoking and drinking...arent you ...


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> one thing i have noticed....small hospitals do things a wee bit different too....my fil...was in a large hospital....presented with the following....stomach pain...high fever...high white blood count....now at the little hospital he would be in surgery in a couple of hours...taking out the appendix...sure a few good ones came out...but they normally were bad and if not gave the doctor a quick peek to see if he could find anything obvious...at large hospital they began to run tests...4 days later he had e coli in his blood and they took out his appendix...now if a fucking admitting clerk could easily guess the treatment why the hell couldnt this multi million dollar medical hospital not?


The sumbitches are never gonna get me until they're tying a tag on my toe.


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

i have vices...i do like pills....valiums...honey hush when they took ludes off the market i thought my world had ended....then i found paris 500's....then i quit...probably the one thing that has saved me...i  hate speed of any type ....i dont need x, meth, coke, crack, whatever for sex....either..that is just weird...hell i thought drunks were bad enough....but you look at what people put in their bodies....cheap vodka....i simply dont have the time for cheap vodka....fish farmed in china...hello asshole but if they will posion their own babies do you think they wont poision your cheap american ass?


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

naw you gotta have skin checks...esp i would say in texas...how tough is your skin right now?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> yes i see...but you must have some vices....you are talking about smoking and drinking...arent you ...


I smoke, for about the last 10 years... I drink, when I want and however much I want and make no bones about it. Only actually been drunk once though.

Smoking doesn't hurt you. _Believing_ it will, does.

My granddad.... The doc said his lungs and liver were almost pristine. No heart problems, in fact he couldn't find a cause of death so it was deemed "old age." But see, we in the family knew the cause. It _was_ heart problems, a broken heart.

Grandma had died nine months before see, and it was clear he couldn't live without her. 70+ years of being together, through thick and thin, the depression, the dust bowl, WW2, everything else....

He simply didn't want to live without her.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> naw you gotta have skin checks...esp i would say in texas...how tough is your skin right now?


My skin? Soft and silky smooth as a baby's bottom!

I don't have to have any checks. When it's my time to die, it's my time.

See?


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

o that is just stupid....my father died of lung cancer....at 54....dumbass..smoking hurts your lungs....but my mother who never smoked and rarely drank.....her mind is going...so its damend if you do and damned if you dont...my hubby's grandmother is 100...now that is wild


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Watching these celebrities die over the last year and a half or so, if you go all the way back to Heath Ledger, sort of made me think again and sort of re-evaluate things. Especially the recent Billy Mays deal. Turns out he had a heart condition, according to latest reports, and I also found out he had two hip replacements and was in constant pain from those.
> 
> But here's the deal: I have never, ever gone to see a doctor, never had a check-up, only had medical treatment for injuries like my broken ankle, had both knees scoped back in the 90s, and various other broken bones. Have never and never will have health insurance.
> 
> ...



I agree with everything you said except the bolded. You cannot be "healthy as can be" and be dead.. Death is cell death,, which is an unhealthy state of being.


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

o dont mind her...she is just off balance.....


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> o that is just stupid....my father died of lung cancer....at 54....dumbass..smoking hurts your lungs....but my mother who never smoked and rarely drank.....her mind is going...so its damend if you do and damned if you dont...my hubby's grandmother is 100...now that is wild



Yes, and my mom died at 56 from smoking, lung cancer.. MM is the second DUmbass on this board who says smoking won't hurt you.. geez


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> strollingbones said:
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> > o that is just stupid....my father died of lung cancer....at 54....dumbass..smoking hurts your lungs....but my mother who never smoked and rarely drank.....her mind is going...so its damend if you do and damned if you dont...my hubby's grandmother is 100...now that is wild
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It will hurt you. IF you believe it will. My Uncle Johnny? In his 80s now, smoked all his adult live. Healthy as a horse. Still working every day in his cotton gin.

If you believe it's bad for ya, DON'T do it because it will be!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> You cannot be "healthy as can be" and be dead.


Of course not. The context might have been slightly faulty. _Before_ he died, he was healthy as can be.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> I agree with everything you said except the bolded.


If so, then how can you be saying smoking is bad for folks. Clearly it is NOT bad for all folks. Only for the ones who _believe_ it is!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> smoking hurts your lungs...


IF you believe it will, it will!

Self-fulfilling prophesy!


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## KittenKoder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> strollingbones said:
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> > o that is just stupid....my father died of lung cancer....at 54....dumbass..smoking hurts your lungs....but my mother who never smoked and rarely drank.....her mind is going...so its damend if you do and damned if you dont...my hubby's grandmother is 100...now that is wild
> ...



 Really ... um ... yeah ....


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## KittenKoder (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
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She is confusing healthy with living again.


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## KittenKoder (Jun 29, 2009)

Many healthy people die each year, almost half the people who die are healthy when they do, plain and simple. Health is relative to a lot of factors, and each person has different factors that can effect their health. Hell, living near cars will give you lung cancer .... in the desert there's skin cancer ... everything has a chance of killing you, and a lot of things you do have high chances of it, the funny thing is that living is a death wish, you simply can't avoid it. Most of the people to live the longest have only one healthy practice, they don't worry about dying. Stress and worry will kill you faster than anything else.


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## alan1 (Jun 29, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Many healthy people die each year, almost half the people who die are healthy when they do, plain and simple. Health is relative to a lot of factors, and each person has different factors that can effect their health. Hell, living near cars will give you lung cancer .... in the desert there's skin cancer ... everything has a chance of killing you, and a lot of things you do have high chances of it, the funny thing is that living is a death wish, you simply can't avoid it. Most of the people to live the longest have only one healthy practice, they don't worry about dying. Stress and worry will kill you faster than anything else.



Over half the people between the ages of 25 and 45 (in the US) that die, die from no known root cause.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Hell, living near cars will give you lung cancer .... in the desert there's skin cancer ...


Yes, if you _believe_ they will!





> *Most of the people to live the longest have only one healthy practice, they don't worry about dying. Stress and worry will kill you faster than anything else.*


That's all about fear, and negative seeds, and the total lack of same in those who live longest. That and the acceptance that when your time is up, that's it! Like I said in the OP, why worry about or fear the inevitable? Why spend resources trying to extend your time? You simply_ can't_. It's an illusion.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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it has nothing to do with belief.. It has to do with gene's and an inherited propensity for certain disease, then throw in the environmental factors and bingo,, but you keep smoking and believing it won't hurt you, right up til you get your diagnosis,, then you can go through the stages of grief! memorize them.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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smoking is bad for your body.. your cells,, your cells is where death occurs,, and cancer originates.. think cellular!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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My MOTHER died from lung cancer. She always told us kids, "these things will kill me one day" as she lit another smoke. Self Fulfilling prophesy. On the other hand, her sister, my Aunt Demaris.... Like Johnny has smoked all HER life too, and is still quite spry and definitely kicking at 78. All three had the same mom, same dad.... Only two of them took his advice. The one that didn't isn't around anymore.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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If you believe that, you're absolutely right.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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I do believe it,, and you believe the opposite, right up til you receive your diagnosis.. then how will you explain that away doyathink?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> I do believe it,, and you believe the opposite, right up til you receive your diagnosis.. then how will you explain that away doyathink?


I won't receive one. Clearly the OP didn't sink in.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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By your logic,, one only gets disease if one believes it.. If that were true a good proportion of people who "believe" as you do will never get "sick" and die. cause they don't believe in cellular death..


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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That's not actually what was said. I can see you really don't want to discuss this. You believe in the placebo effect, correct? If so, then you have to believe in the Pygmalion Effect as well, the self-fulfilling prophesy. But clearly you believe in one and not the other.

See the dichotomy?


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

Too lazy to go through the thread...

Has anyone mentioned that roughly 1/3 of the allegedly 40+ million "uninsured" qualify for Medicare/Medicaid, yet haven't applied for it??


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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no,, I am discussing it. I am trying to make you see that if you smoke and introduce carcinogens into your tissues and cells, you will in fact risk lung cancer,, and "believing it away" will not change that fact. I also do believe in the placebo effect..


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> no,, I am discussing it. I am trying to make you see that if you smoke and introduce carcinogens into your tissues and cells, you will in fact risk lung cancer,, and "believing it away" will not change that fact. I also do believe in the placebo effect..


If you are conditioned to believe that, yes 100% of the time it WILL kill you!

If you are conditioned to believe not only that it won't, but it doesn't matter even if it does because we're all going to die anyway, it might not!

The placebo effect isn't 100%. Neither is the Pygmalion effect. But they are BOTH equally applicable and proven.

Yet? Most people deny the second one, because they are _conditioned_ to do so. We are taught to fear mortality, to fear substances, to fear fear fear. This is why the health care system is so clogged up with people and their various ailments. Hell, it's even why the placebo effect works! We are conditioned to believe medical science is a cure-all! The Doc plants a positive seed, saying this pill might help, gives you an inert sugar tablet, and your _mind_ does the rest!

If the power of the MIND was nurtured at an early age, you might very well see 30% less folks having problems. But that would hurt the pharm companies, and the health scare system in general.

I know there is no way to make this impression on older folks. They are too far gone into the conditioning, the negative seeds, the fear. This thread is to provoke _thought_. Not make folks change their views.


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder Johnson is right!!


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
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The *old* people don't need to change their minds.. they are the successful ones!


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> Midnight Marauder Johnson is right!!



"Believe" it!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> The *old* people don't need to change their minds.. they are the successful ones!


I said "older" not old. "Older" in this case being, probably 20ish and up. After the negative conditioning has taken hold and is deep-rooted.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> "Believe" it!


And you "believe" the placebo effect why? Because they told you to?

But nobody ever told you about the Pygmalion Effect.


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## KittenKoder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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Other than mental, and even a few of those, every single health issue I have is because of going to the doctor ... explain that one.


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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Fuckin-A right I do.

You have no idea as to the power of belief.

Even though it may not change one's right-here-right-now, it does determine what you'll think and do next.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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no! the placebo effect has been scientifically proven.. with blind studies. Has the Pygmalion effect? Has anybody ever been proven to be a heavy smoker and because he "believed" he would not get lung cancer did not in fact get lung cancer? Has that been proven? I didn't think so.. See "believe" is a thing of "faith" not fact.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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You would have to provide in disputable proof that all your problems are because of going to the doctor. I think that's impossible.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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Yes, it has.





> Has anybody ever been proven to be a heavy smoker and because he "believed" he would not get lung cancer did not in fact get lung cancer?


That cannot be quantified, but I have given you three sterling anecdotal examples. And I'm a fourth. AND I gave you a control, the Mom who planted the negative seed, the self-fulfilling prophesy, saying cigarettes were going to kill her. And wow, they did!

Think for a second. Why does the placebo effect even work? Because we are _conditioned_ to believe medical science is a cure-all! The Doc plants a positive seed, saying this pill might help, gives you an inert sugar tablet, and your mind does the rest! BECAUSE of the Pygmalion Effect, the self-fulfilling prophesy! YOU believe the pill will work, and it does! BECAUSE you believed it! The sugar pill you actually took didn't do a damn thing, your _mind_ did!

It's odd how emotional you are over this, instead of being rational.


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## auditor0007 (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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Nice propoganda.  Now drop some fliers on the rest of America telling them that doctors are obsolete.  Yes, it is true that many people do die at younger ages, even with medical treatment.  What you fail to mention are all those people who survive cancer through treatment, those who get a second chance after triple bypass surgery, and those who receive transplanted organs to live many years longer than they would have.  On top of that, millions of people receive treatments that improve their quality of life.  

And since you don't pay for health insurance, anyone that does will end up subsidizing your healthcare costs should you become sick, because if you ever do become sick, you will want treatment.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> Nice propoganda.  Now drop some fliers on the rest of America telling them that doctors are obsolete.


:yawn:

No one said or even suggested that. Propaganda is often the mischaracterization of another's stance.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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*I am not the least bit emotional. All I'm saying is if you plan to avoid hospitals, doctors, and medicine you will be oh so wise to stop smoking.. sooner rather than later. *


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> And since you don't pay for health insurance, anyone that does will end up subsidizing your healthcare costs should you become sick, because if you ever do become sick, you will want treatment.


I pay for my own healthcare needs. I simply never need any unless injured, as I explained in the OP you didn't read.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> I am not the least bit emotional. All I'm saying is if you plan to avoid hospitals, doctors, and medicine you will be oh so wise to stop smoking.. sooner rather than later.


Why?

Oh, that fear of substances thing. That conditioning.


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> Nice propoganda.  Now drop some fliers on the rest of America telling them that doctors are obsolete.  Yes, it is true that many people do die at younger ages, even with medical treatment.  What you fail to mention are all those people who survive cancer through treatment, those who get a second chance after triple bypass surgery, and those who receive transplanted organs to live many years longer than they would have.  On top of that, millions of people receive treatments that improve their quality of life.
> 
> And since you don't pay for health insurance, anyone that does will end up subsidizing your healthcare costs should you become sick, because if you ever do become sick, you will want treatment.


Likewise, people die during chemo and radiation therapy, die on the table or shortly thereafter bypasses and transplants, and  the quality of life of many of the recipients of said cut-n-burn treatments never returns.

But maybe we could get some testimony from guys like Frank Shorter and Bruce Jenner...Huh??


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

auditor0007 said:


> What you fail to mention are all those people who survive cancer through treatment, those who get a second chance after triple bypass surgery, and those who receive transplanted organs to live many years longer than they would have.


It wasn't _their time_ to go! When it is _time_ for them to go, just like you and me and all the dead celebrities who had the best medical care money can buy, it won't matter.

Also covered in the OP.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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as I've said.. "believe" that right up til you get your diagnosis,, then work on explaining how you got lung cancer..


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> auditor0007 said:
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> ...



How about Mary Tyler Moore? Lived her whole life under treatment for juvenille diabetes.. now it might have turned out differently if she "believed" she didn't need insulin or doctors..


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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As _I_ said, there will never be such a diagnosis.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> How about Mary Tyler Moore? Lived her whole life under treatment for juvenille diabetes.. now it *might have* turned out differently if she "believed" she didn't need insulin or doctors..


Correct.

You deny the power of the mind, the vast unexplored power within us all. Placebos might have cured her, no?


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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for your sake I hope you are right. but I don't "believe" you are!


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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what I believe in is biological facts!.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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That's perfectly fine with me.

I know.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


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Is it a biological fact that placebos work?

Placebos only work because of the Pygmalion Effect.

*Mind over matter*..... How many times do you have to read that?


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



You 'believe" you know. You are too scared to really "know"


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > How about Mary Tyler Moore? Lived her whole life under treatment for juvenille diabetes.. now it *might have* turned out differently if she "believed" she didn't need insulin or doctors..
> ...


Much as I hate to disagree, not so much.

There's a difference when original physical organic dysfunction and inability are concerned.

However, the possibilities viz. external invasive elements remains valid.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...





study cells, how they function, what they require, and their death. Then you will in fact "know". Get thee a good book on "pathophysiology."


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

Read the next reply slowly. I am typing this real slowly for you. Let it soak in:





WillowTree said:


> what I believe in is biological facts!.


That is because of your conditioning! Mine is different! Mine stresses the power of positive thinking, mind over matter, and self-fulfilling prophesy. Yours stresses fear.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> study cells, how they function, what they require, and their death. Then you will in fact "know". Get thee a good book on "pathophysiology."


I don't need to study cells. I don't need to concern myself with mine because nothing will ever go wrong with them until they die.


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Is it a biological fact that placebos work?
> ...


Google and study "pathological trance".


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Read the next reply slowly. I am typing this real slowly for you. Let it soak in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



no, mine stresses knowledge! With knowledge comes power! Not "belief."


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> Much as I hate to disagree, not so much.
> 
> There's a difference when original physical organic dysfunction and inability are concerned.
> 
> However, the possibilities viz. external invasive elements remains valid.


What we don't know is what has never been tried.

The Hippocratic oath wouldn't allow a doctor to treat diabetes with a placebo. But it sure as hell allows people to become hypochondriacs, due to negative seeds planted. Lets the mind "invent" illness.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...









has it ever occurred to you that "yes" there is such a thing as mind over matter"? but it's not the be all to end all? You have to apply more than one discipline to live a healthy life?? Jeez.. how simple can it be.. If you have such mind over matter how come you are so stupid as to become addicted to cigarettes?  Mind over matter my ass!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> no, mine stresses knowledge! With knowledge comes power! Not "belief."


You have no knowledge of the power of the mind. You don't understand that the placebo effect only works because of the Pygmalion effect. You want to cherry-pick your "knowledge" and therefore are closed-minded.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> has it ever occurred to you that "yes" there is such a thing as mind over matter"? but it's not the be all to end all?


No one said it was.

Again, mischaracterizing the argument. It's quite dishonest.


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> no, mine stresses knowledge! With knowledge comes power! Not "belief."


Only because you _*believe*_ that "knowledge" to be correct.

But what if that knowledge was oh-so-close, but no cigar??

What if that knowledge was _*an*_ avenue of approach, yet not_* the only*_ one that got you where you want to go??

It's not necessary to abandon everything you "know" to consider and discover other ways to go about getting the results you want.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> It's not necessary to abandon everything you "know" to consider and discover other ways to go about getting the results you want.


Bingo! We have a Winnah!


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > study cells, how they function, what they require, and their death. Then you will in fact "know". Get thee a good book on "pathophysiology."
> ...



So,, now it is clear! You have made this decision to "believe" out of sheer ignorance! End of story!


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > no, mine stresses knowledge! With knowledge comes power! Not "belief."
> ...





I "believe" I said as much when I said "mind over matter" is not the be all to end all" it takes more than one rigid discipline to live a healthy life..


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...




I certainly hope so. Your pedantic posts and your closed-mindedness, your circular arguments and your mischaracterizations make rational discussion impossible.


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > It's not necessary to abandon everything you "know" to consider and discover other ways to go about getting the results you want.
> ...



What you have a trained professional. 

But you already knew that...Didn't you??


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## strollingbones (Jun 29, 2009)

so i got skin cancer cause i thought i would ?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...


You are? No, I did not know that.

I thought you were simply rational and open-minded!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> so i got skin cancer cause i thought i would ?


No. No one's suggested that either.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > has it ever occurred to you that "yes" there is such a thing as mind over matter"? but it's not the be all to end all?
> ...





yes! you did in fact say that. when you said you can smoke cigarettes and not get lung cancer because you have the "power of positive thinking" what an idiot! if you had such a tough tough mind you wouldn't be addicted to tobacco.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> yes! you did in fact say that. when you said you can smoke cigarettes and not get lung cancer because you have the "power of positive thinking" what an idiot! if you had such a tough tough mind you wouldn't be addicted to tobacco.


I did not say that. Hopefully this will inspire you to re-read the OP, perchance to be able to find where I made such a statement. And maybe in the re-reading, your mind might open just a tiny crack.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



you can't carry on a rational discussion about anything if you know nothing about the basic unit of life.. the cell.. oh well,, I'm a poet!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> you can't carry on a rational discussion about anything if you know nothing about the basic unit of life.. the cell.. oh well,, I'm a poet!


You don't know what I know.

See?


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> so i got skin cancer cause i thought i would ?



No! by MM logic you got skin cancer cause you didn't "believe" you would not. Get as much exposure to the sun as you want.. as long as you "believe" your cell's won't become aberrant,, then "they simply won't."


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > you can't carry on a rational discussion about anything if you know nothing about the basic unit of life.. the cell.. oh well,, I'm a poet!
> ...



I know you said "you didn't need to know" see? how that works????


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> if you had such a tough tough mind you wouldn't be addicted to tobacco.


_*Paradox alert!!!*_


The fact that one is "addicted" to tobacco is the best evidence of the strength of the mind.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > if you had such a tough tough mind you wouldn't be addicted to tobacco.
> ...



in an evil unhealthy sorta way! yes! but it has a lot more to do with chemistry. dosen't it?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > so i got skin cancer cause i thought i would ?
> ...


That's simply a lie.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > yes! you did in fact say that. when you said you can smoke cigarettes and not get lung cancer because you have the "power of positive thinking" what an idiot! if you had such a tough tough mind you wouldn't be addicted to tobacco.
> ...





> *I smoke, for about the last 10 years... I drink, when I want and however much I want and make no bones about it. Only actually been drunk once though.
> 
> Smoking doesn't hurt you. Believing it will, does.*





your words MM post number 10


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## Oddball (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


That is where you are wrong, wrong, wrong!!!

Chronic alcoholics are true physical addicts, because if you tale away the ETOH they'll go into respiratory arrest and die.

Tobacco "addiction" (and most other misnamed "addictions" for that matter) are not chemically life threatening....They are persistent and pathological beliefs about what chemicals the body "needs" with no physiological evidence in support.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Look again. I said I don't need to _study_ cells. One who knows about them doesn't need to study them. Maybe you should sign up and take a reading comprehension course.

You're really starting to become a bore. You do not understand the argument, you are mischaracterizing it, and you do not want to explore it.

I am going beyond the physical world here, into powers so vast which we ALL have, and haven't been explored. It's literally, as Shakespeare said, "The Undiscovered Country."

And you have no wish to open your mind and discover it.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...



No, it is not.. see post number 10.. Are you okay tonight? I'm beginning to wonder!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


That's right, and it's NOT what you said I said, if you can comprehend what you read.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



I think you are having a contoriontist conumdrum,, when did you become a libral?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


You're simply not understanding what you are reading, and I believe it's intentional. Read it again. Why don't I do drugs? Like speed, coke, others? Because I believe they will harm me.

I do NOT believe cigarettes will. Otherwise, I wouldn't smoke them.


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...






explain it to me slowly.. where did I go wrong??    slowly now.. what does "Smoking doesn't hurt you. Believing it will, does" mean exactly?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


You are mucking up what could have been an intelligent conversation, with sophomoric garbage. And you also cannot even spell.

Earlier didn't you say, "end of story?" Make it so.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 29, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/1307073-post96.html


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## WillowTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...



Nicotine addiction is as chemically addicting as heroin..


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...





do it in your own words.. what exactly does ""Smoking doesn't hurt you. Believing it will, does" mean exactly"?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


I linked you to the post where I answered that, before you even asked it. Click on the link.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Studies PROVE IT!!! OMG!!!!!

See how foolish you look yet?


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



oh yes,, this is supposed to make it clear! 



>


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...





I don't smoke! You do!


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## Oddball (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Nicotine addiction is as chemically addicting as heroin..


That's a fucking lie, and I'm living proof.

Both are extremely habit-forming, but neither are physically addictive to the point that their removal from the system is life threatening.

Bone up on the research of Dr. Thomas Szasz.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Dude said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Nicotine addiction is as chemically addicting as heroin..
> ...




who is he? He the last word on the subject?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


For an intelligent, open minded person, it would.

"Mind over matter" is just a saying, to you. For me, it is an _application_. A tool in the arsenal. Something to learn about and explore. And use. The body and all of its cells are _matter_. That means, mind is _over_ it! Literally!

I firmly believe it, I have seen examples of it throughout my life. I have studied it at length. I believe the power of the mind is _limitless_, and we haven't tapped even a millionth of its potential. Not even a billionth.

And that is what this topic is all about.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


You're very smart not to ever do so, if you believe it will hurt you.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...





well, if you had put it that way in the first place, you might have had me. As it is you lost me with " Cigarettes won't harm me unless I believe they will" bullshit.


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## Oddball (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


How does another word necessarily become the last word??

He is another avenue to the results you may want to get some time in the future.

Phillips screwdrivers don't work on slotted screws, even though both fasteners work off of the same basic principle.


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## KittenKoder (Jun 30, 2009)

You want to know the most hilarious thing about Willow's stance ... she thinks this is a liberal v conservative thing ... 

So Willow, how many of your fellow conservatives know you are for the government health machine telling you what to do?


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> You want to know the most hilarious thing about Willow's stance ... she thinks this is a liberal v conservative thing ...
> 
> So Willow, how many of your fellow conservatives know you are for the government health machine telling you what to do?



you are dead wrong as usual KK,, I don't.. I think not getting both sides of the story is a libral thing.. that's hilarious to me.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> " Cigarettes won't harm me unless I believe they will" bullshit.


Again, that is NOT what I said! HERE is what I said:

"Smoking doesn't hurt you. Believing it will, does."

PERHAPS it should have been:

"Smoking may or may not hurt you. But believing it will, makes it a definite."

But MY stand, for ME is, Smoking will not hurt ME. Just like it didn't hurt my grandfather, uncle or aunt! Who smoked ALL of their adult lives, whereas I have only been smoking for 10 years.

You're arguing bullshit semantics. Are you DWP?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> who is he? He the last word on the subject?


Is anyone? Anywhere? On anything?

Of course not.


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## KittenKoder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > You want to know the most hilarious thing about Willow's stance ... she thinks this is a liberal v conservative thing ...
> ...



Really ... you do realize that all you are doing is parroting "liberal" talking points on why smoking should be illegal, right?

You are not actually stating any real evidence, other than the addictive thing.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



cut the crap,, you are bobo in disguise aren't you..  or perhaps I shudda said "bobo in pink tights"


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> You want to know the most hilarious thing about Willow's stance ... she thinks this is a liberal v conservative thing ...
> 
> So Willow, how many of your fellow conservatives know you are for the government health machine telling you what to do?


Even funnier than that, is my suspicion that she thinks I'm a conservative!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> cut the crap,, you are bobo in disguise aren't you..  or perhaps I shudda said "bobo in pink tights"


Are you DWP or not? It would explain a great deal.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...


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## Oddball (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> cut the crap,, you are bobo in disguise aren't you..  or perhaps I shudda said "bobo in pink tights"


Cheap shot.

Booboo would've blamed this all on _*BOOOOOSH!!*_ by now.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > cut the crap,, you are bobo in disguise aren't you..  or perhaps I shudda said "bobo in pink tights"
> ...



I don't know what you mean by DWP!


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## KittenKoder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> > Midnight Marauder said:
> >
> >
> > > Again, that is NOT what I said! HERE is what I said:
> ...



Actually, he has a very valid point, and sometimes when the news is slow they actually let the doctors say this, the number one cause of death in the US is stress, beyond anything else that kills us, stress and worry is often the real reason for heart attacks and strokes as well as has a severely negative effect on the entire body and mind. Stress can cause any type of damage that is often attributed to other things, and of all the evidence, the one thing that is common among those who die prematurely, stress is the only thing that is constant, those who die younger almost always have more stressful lives than those who live longer. It's the reason why smokers can live past a hundred so much ... almost everyone who has lived past 100 are smokers. So even medically the doctors agree, barring any accidents, stress is the most likely benefactor to death.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Dude said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > cut the crap,, you are bobo in disguise aren't you..  or perhaps I shudda said "bobo in pink tights"
> ...



well, shit,, MM is running all around the mullberry bush..just like bobo in pink tights.. he keeps saying "I can smoke cigarettes and they won't harm me unless I believe they will" and then he keeps denying it.. sounds like a bobo to me..


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Drunk While Posting.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


That's NOT what's happening. Please slow down and actually READ what's posted.


"Smoking may or may not hurt you. But believing it will, makes it a definite."

But MY stand, for ME is, Smoking will not hurt ME. Just like it didn't hurt my grandfather, uncle or aunt! Who smoked ALL of their adult lives, whereas I have only been smoking for 10 years.

No denials there, at all.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



sorry! I don't smoke,, and do very little drinking! I had a cold beer at Hooters the other day,, coldest beer on the planet.. was in an aluminum bottle..


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


What's..... That..... Got to do with being DWP?


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > cut the crap,, you are bobo in disguise aren't you..
> ...



*I think I said early on you and MM are the two DUmmies who actually think you can smoke cigarettes and because you "believe" they won't hurt you, will not get cancer.. I chuckle every time I read that.  *


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> *I think I said early on you and MM are the two DUmmies who actually think you can smoke cigarettes and because you "believe" they won't hurt you, will not get cancer.. I chuckle every time I read that.  *


I've seen three folks do so, for decades, with NO ill effect. All three believed there would be no ill effect.

And there wasn't.

You're scoffing at what you haven't the candlepower to understand.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



too much drink damages yer brain cells,, smoking damages lung and cardiac functions.. we are talking about disease and "belief" aren't we?


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## KittenKoder (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > *I think I said early on you and MM are the two DUmmies who actually think you can smoke cigarettes and because you "believe" they won't hurt you, will not get cancer.. I chuckle every time I read that.  *
> ...



Hell, my lung capacity is actually better than those who never smoke but live in this same city ...


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## Oddball (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> well, shit,, MM is running all around the mullberry bush..just like bobo in pink tights.. he keeps saying "I can smoke cigarettes and they won't harm me unless I believe they will" and then he keeps denying it.. sounds like a bobo to me..


Reading for comprehension is a good thing...Try it some time.

MM's point is that any risky/potentially damaging behavior is exacerbated by the belief that it is damaging, which inevitably leads to what one may or may not do next.....Which, more often than not, ends up being even more risky/damaging thinking and behaviors.

This does not automatically lead to the conclusion that one can believe their way out of the potential risks of any given risky behavior on its own.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Dude said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > well, shit,, MM is running all around the mullberry bush..just like bobo in pink tights.. he keeps saying "I can smoke cigarettes and they won't harm me unless I believe they will" and then he keeps denying it.. sounds like a bobo to me..
> ...





This is where you guys part ways with common sense.. Jeez.. believe it is damaging and stop doing it.. that's your very best bet.. To do it and think you can  slide by "not believing it does damage" is just plain stoopit!


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm going to sleep now.. I needs my rest!


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## Oddball (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Talk about missing the point.

What if the person exhibiting the risky/damaging behavior perceives a benefit that, in their subjective judgment, outweighs the risks??


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> This is where you guys part ways with common sense.. Jeez.. believe it is damaging and stop doing it.. that's your very best bet.. To do it and think you can  slide by "not believing it does damage" is just plain stoopit!


You have no common sense to part with!

Because you are conditioned and programmed. I'll illustrate:

How many people smoke annually?  48 million? That's fair.... in fact it's probably quite conservative. How many new cases of lung cancer attributed to cigarette smoking annually? 100 thousand? 200? Know the difference between thousands and millions?

You seem to believe everyone who smokes develops lung cancer, yet are scoffing at the possibility that the metaphysical world might, in some cases, make it NOT happen? Can you not see how stupid _that_ is?

Please explain the 47.8 million people who smoke, who never develop lung cancer. I can't, can medical science? Were they just lucky? Random chance? You'll believe that?

Or is it possible this deal about smoking is overblown, exaggerated, ALL out of proportion?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> You 'believe" you know. You are too scared to really "know"


I only just caught this. Do you have any clue how nonsensical this is? Especially IF you even bothered to read the OP? Scared people believe smoking WILL kill them. I'm on the _opposite_ side of that.


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## editec (Jun 30, 2009)

I also eshew medicine as much as humanly possible and for much the same reason that our chum MM does.

Now it is possible that I will die early because I don't discover some easily solved medical problem in time, I'll admit that.

But given that iatrogenises is the third or fouth cause of death in the USA, I guess I'm willing to risk it.

Unless and until I notice something untoward, I tend to avoid modern medicine.

I did finally get a check-up recently, just because I needed to check something that was real, (and turned out to be nothing) and discovered that basically I'm in good (excellent, really) health.

Given that I treated my body like a playground for decades, and still basically don't even remotely take care of myself, I must admit I was pleased that my genetics trumped that less than ideal lifestyle I seem to be so comfortable with.

My nurse practicioner and MD (neither knew me) both thought I was much younger than I was until they asked my age.

My blood tests and vital signs seemed to indicate that physically I am apparently somewhat younger than my chonological age, too.

knock wood.


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > This is where you guys part ways with common sense.. Jeez.. believe it is damaging and stop doing it.. that's your very best bet.. To do it and think you can  slide by "not believing it does damage" is just plain stoopit!
> ...



*are you gonna sit there and tell us that lung cancer is the only adverse effect you might have from smoking? and, that since so many don't get it smoking is just fine and dandy as long as you believe you won't get lung cancer? and you say I don't have common sense?  *


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > You 'believe" you know. You are too scared to really "know"
> ...


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > You want to know the most hilarious thing about Willow's stance ... she thinks this is a liberal v conservative thing ...
> ...






She *used*to think you were a conservative.. now i think you radical!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> She *used*to think you were a conservative.. now i think you radical!


You're wrong there. You do not actually _think_, you mostly _feel_. You allow your intellect to atrophy in the backseat of the SUV of life, while your heart drives. When it should be, the intellect driving and the heart in the passenger seat, holding the roadmap.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> are you gonna sit there and tell us that lung cancer is the only adverse effect you might have from smoking?


Fine.... Let's double the 200,000 number I gave. Hell, let's triple it! No, let's do even better than that, let's make it 900 thousand new medical cases of all types, due to smoking per year. That's fine, so long as you know the difference between 900 _thousand_ cases and 48 fucking MILLION smokers!





> and, that since so many don't get it smoking is just fine and dandy as long as you believe you won't get lung cancer?


It's fine and dandy so long as it's fine and dandy with YOU. It's a personal choice if you want to smoke. And if you do, clearly the odds are on your side. The numbers don't lie.  Which is quite contrary to popular, conditioned belief.





> and you say I don't have common sense?


You might have it, but you quash it, squelch it, let mindless fear and greatly exaggerated dangers override it. Because you are _conditioned_ to do so.

People either get busy _living_, or get busy dying. I choose to be busy with the living, and give dying no concern whatsoever, because I know it's coming for me one day no matter what I do. And when you learn to _really and truly_ accept and embrace that, it's quite liberating.


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## mal (Jun 30, 2009)

Marking this for Later... Interested in Hell to Read it...



peace...


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## WillowTree (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > are you gonna sit there and tell us that lung cancer is the only adverse effect you might have from smoking?
> ...






I don't have mindless fear! Want Proof? I'm not the one out there trying to rationalize "mind over matter." only fearful peoples do that!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Rationalizing is what you are doing, O conditioned one.

I notice you have no answer to the math.....


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