# $200 wind turbine?



## Chris (Jul 22, 2008)

Tell me what you think. I am not mechanically inclined.

The Green Toolman - DIY Expert of Green Solutions


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## Charles_Main (Jul 22, 2008)

Looks cool but I do not see anywhere where it says how much power it produced.


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## Chris (Jul 23, 2008)

Check out the video of the wind turbine in action...

Earth4Energy.com - Create electricity at home - renewable energy. Make a windmill and solar power system


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## Tech_Esq (Jul 23, 2008)

Charles_Main said:


> Looks cool but I do not see anywhere where it says how much power it produced.



To give you an idea, this link is for a wind turbine that produces 2.5 KW of electricity sustainergy - Wind systems from Sustainergy

Ok so what? What's that mean? Well, on my boat I'm currently using a 3.0 KW Westerbeke generator. With that I can power almost everything on my boat. I can run a small Air conditioning system, lights, small refrigerator, radios, outlets for laptops or TVs and a microwave oven. I cannot run the AC and the water heater or the electric stove at the same time. So, 2.5 KW will do roughly the same. 

The $200 project does less than that. That said, if you can hook up a free (to operate) do-hickey and have it cut your electric bill, more power to you!


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> To give you an idea, this link is for a wind turbine that produces 2.5 KW of electricity sustainergy - Wind systems from Sustainergy
> 
> Ok so what? What's that mean? Well, on my boat I'm currently using a 3.0 KW Westerbeke generator. With that I can power almost everything on my boat. I can run a small Air conditioning system, lights, small refrigerator, radios, outlets for laptops or TVs and a microwave oven. I cannot run the AC and the water heater or the electric stove at the same time. So, 2.5 KW will do roughly the same.
> 
> The $200 project does less than that. That said, if you can hook up a free (to operate) do-hickey and have it cut your electric bill, more power to you!



Sound then with a couple of them you could probably power your hole house, not bad.


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## Jeepers (Jul 23, 2008)

You would need a battery bank and DC wiring... I've been running the numbers and havent been able to configure a system for under 2k..


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## Chris (Jul 23, 2008)

Jeepers said:


> You would need a battery bank and DC wiring... I've been running the numbers and havent been able to configure a system for under 2k..



Why would you need batteries?

Here in Virginia the utility is required to buy power from you, so your meter just runs backwards.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

> Here in Virginia the utility is required to buy power from you, so your meter just runs backwards.



You would only need batteries if you wanted to be off the grid completely. If you stayed on the grid you would not need any. You would simply use power off the grid when the wind was not blowing enough to generate power, and at those times you generated more power than you need, you could get the Power company to buy the extra power. As I under stand it that is Law in most places.

Keep in mind however that this is just and fancy advertisement for a wind mill. I would not just accept everything it says about the product at face values.


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## Jeepers (Jul 23, 2008)

Wind generators do not provide a steady stream of electricity.. They work as a trickle charger but you will still need capture the energy in batteries. I 've not heard of a direct AC generator either... You would need to convert the stored power from DC to AC unless you were going to wire the house in DC.


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## Tech_Esq (Jul 23, 2008)

Jeepers said:


> Wind generators do not provide a steady stream of electricity.. They work as a trickle charger but you will still need capture the energy in batteries. I 've not heard of a direct AC generator either... You would need to convert the stored power from DC to AC unless you were going to wire the house in DC.



You're right. In my research, if you were going to go off-grid, you would need a bank of batteries to charge to take advantage of all the electricity you produce from all your sources (Solar, wind and micro-hydro). You would need to size the battery bank to roughly 4x the size of the required load so that you never allow your batteries to dip below 50% charge (deep cycle which reduces the life of the battery). If you can keep your charge in the 60%-80% range, you would be doing well for yourself. 

You would then need inverters of appropriate size to convert the DC batteries to the AC of your house, unless you were going to rewire for DC. You would further want to look at every appliance running in your house for the greatest efficiency. And then there's Air Condidtioning.....lol.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

Thanks for the info guys.


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## Tech_Esq (Jul 23, 2008)

Charles_Main said:


> You would only need batteries if you wanted to be off the grid completely. If you stayed on the grid you would not need any. You would simply use power off the grid when the wind was not blowing enough to generate power, and at those times you generated more power than you need, you could get the Power company to buy the extra power. As I under stand it that is Law in most places.
> 
> Keep in mind however that this is just and fancy advertisement for a wind mill. I would not just accept everything it says about the product at face values.



I read a story about a guy in Oregon that wanted to do micro hydro on his property and sell the electricity back to the utility. since his micro hydro was of sufficient size that he would never need grid electric, he didn't have a push-pull agreement. It took him dealing with 12 government agencies and utilities and 4 years to get through all the red tape.

That's ok cause the payback on the project is only 20 years


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> I read a story about a guy in Oregon that wanted to do micro hydro on his property and sell the electricity back to the utility. since his micro hydro was of sufficient size that he would never need grid electric, he didn't have a push-pull agreement. It took him dealing with 12 government agencies and utilities and 4 years to get through all the red tape.
> 
> That's ok cause the payback on the project is only 20 years



Bummer.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 23, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> I read a story about a guy in Oregon that wanted to do micro hydro on his property and sell the electricity back to the utility. since his micro hydro was of sufficient size that he would never need grid electric, he didn't have a push-pull agreement. It took him dealing with 12 government agencies and utilities and 4 years to get through all the red tape.
> 
> That's ok cause the payback on the project is only 20 years



Yay, Oregon.

I live in the middle of windmill country and they've run into a little problem with them...when it's really windy (and it is, it's the Columbia Gorge. Very windy) the windmills make TOO MUCH power, which taxes the systems and ends up being a huge mess. They haven't figured out how to deal with that just yet. So when they're being really efficient, everything breaks and shuts down.

Not to mention the fact that they regularly crumple and kill whomever happens to be working on them...though any industrial type job has its risks....


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## CA95380 (Jul 23, 2008)

Well!  On the highway to San Francisco - near Livermore, CA there is a forrest of these things.  Of coarse they are *BIG ONE'S* on sloping fields out in the middle of the boontoonies.

The only problem I see with _home version_ would be ..... how long will it take for government officials (city, state, federal) to decide that they are eyesores or _whatever_ and should not be allowed within city limits?

Don't laugh .... they are making us get rid of TV antenna's .... it _could _happen.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

CA95380 said:


> Well!  On the highway to San Francisco - near Livermore, CA there is a forrest of these things.  Of coarse they are *BIG ONE'S* on sloping fields out in the middle of the boontoonies.
> 
> The only problem I see with _home version_ would be ..... how long will it take for government officials (city, state, federal) to decide that they are eyesores or _whatever_ and should not be allowed within city limits?
> 
> Don't laugh .... they are making us get rid of TV antenna's .... it _could _happen.



It would happen is more like it, not to mention the Environmentalist would cry about all the birds being killed in the name of alternative energy.


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## Jeepers (Jul 23, 2008)

Tech_Esq said:


> You're right. In my research, if you were going to go off-grid, you would need a bank of batteries to charge to take advantage of all the electricity you produce from all your sources (Solar, wind and micro-hydro). You would need to size the battery bank to roughly 4x the size of the required load so that you never allow your batteries to dip below 50% charge (deep cycle which reduces the life of the battery). If you can keep your charge in the 60%-80% range, you would be doing well for yourself.
> 
> You would then need inverters of appropriate size to convert the DC batteries to the AC of your house, unless you were going to rewire for DC. You would further want to look at every appliance running in your house for the greatest efficiency. And then there's Air Condidtioning.....lol.



Yeah, unfortunately ... I have dreams of going off grid but... its just not cost effective as of yet. I've been facisnated with wind power since stumbling acrossed a village in Guanaja, Honduras... they had a four bungalo configuration centered around one bank and a wind generator... eh, one day. I do have a rather ingenious buddy of mine that was building a hydro electric plant for his five bungalo compound in Dominica... if anyones heading that way check out crescentmooncabins.com... Its a must see if you like hiking.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

Jeepers said:


> Yeah, unfortunately ... I have dreams of going off grid but... its just not cost effective as of yet. I've been facisnated with wind power since stumbling acrossed a village in Guanaja, Honduras... they had a four bungalo configuration centered around one bank and a wind generator... eh, one day. I do have a rather ingenious buddy of mine that was building a hydro electric plant for his five bungalo compound in Dominica... if anyones heading that way check out crescentmooncabins.com... Its a must see if you like hiking.



Seems to me no matter what the up front costs, if you can get off the grid, eventually it will pay for its self. Depending on how much power you use anyways.


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## Mary54 (Oct 27, 2008)

Has anyone built their own windmill using the instructions on the greentoolman's website?  I had a look at the toolman's website and it looks pretty simple.  But is it really?


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## Andrew2382 (Oct 27, 2008)

I remember reading somewhere that to generate the same amount of power 1 nuclear power plant produces you woul dneed something like 50 square miles of wind turbines...


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## Old Rocks (Nov 1, 2008)

I have plans, bought off of the net, for a one Kw mill that would cost under $150 to build. That includes the generator, the pole, and the blades. It also assumes a great deal of mechanical experiance. That being said, it will cost you another $2000 for a 5 Kw grid parallel invertor to use it and stay on the grid. However, after that, you can add another four mills for only $600.

    As to another post, most Nukes produce power in the Gw range. Many of the new wind turbines put out 5 Mw, so it would take over 200 of them to equal one Gw. At full generation, of course. You can site 200 of the big mills on less than one section. So the 50 square miles for the equal of one nuke is simply wrong. Here in Oregon, we have an empty area, South Eastern Oregon, which has some very good wind areas, adjacent to some excellent areas for geothermal. That is also the best solar area in the state. One grid to pick it all up, and the geothermal could act as ballast for the wind and solar. There are many ways to skin the energy cat, time we started using what we have in abundance, rather than depending on others.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 1, 2008)

Should have mentioned Home Power. Go to that site, and you will find many economical ideas for being a power producer as well as a consumer.


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## xsited1 (Nov 1, 2008)

RIPOFF REPORT: Earth4Energy Scam - Earth4Energy Review

I'm surprised by the title of this web page.  The information on the site is positive.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 2, 2008)

xsited1 said:


> RIPOFF REPORT: Earth4Energy Scam - Earth4Energy Review
> 
> I'm surprised by the title of this web page.  The information on the site is positive.



LOL!  I think that this site makes the assumption that anything that sounds to good to be true, usually is. This time they were pleasantly surprised.


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## Care4all (Nov 2, 2008)

Mary54 said:


> Has anyone built their own windmill using the instructions on the greentoolman's website?  I had a look at the toolman's website and it looks pretty simple.  But is it really?



i read a negative review stating, whatever you do, do not attach the wind turbine to your roof or chimney or house, the shaking of it could make the house unstable and basically, shake it apart....


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## Zoomie1980 (Nov 3, 2008)

Jeepers said:


> You would need a battery bank and DC wiring... I've been running the numbers and havent been able to configure a system for under 2k..



A 2.3KWH wind turbine for a residential use runs about $52,000 installed and wired to your meter.  That would cover about 95% of my non-summer needs.  About 75-80% of my summer needs.  Add a $10,000 solar cell setup and I'm 100%.  Payback?  35 years at current rates  I'll be dead by then


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## Zoomie1980 (Nov 3, 2008)

Old Rocks said:


> I have plans, bought off of the net, for a one Kw mill that would cost under $150 to build. That includes the generator, the pole, and the blades. It also assumes a great deal of mechanical experiance. That being said, it will cost you another $2000 for a 5 Kw grid parallel invertor to use it and stay on the grid. However, after that, you can add another four mills for only $600.
> 
> As to another post, most Nukes produce power in the Gw range. Many of the new wind turbines put out 5 Mw, so it would take over 200 of them to equal one Gw. At full generation, of course. You can site 200 of the big mills on less than one section. So the 50 square miles for the equal of one nuke is simply wrong. Here in Oregon, we have an empty area, South Eastern Oregon, which has some very good wind areas, adjacent to some excellent areas for geothermal. That is also the best solar area in the state. One grid to pick it all up, and the geothermal could act as ballast for the wind and solar. There are many ways to skin the energy cat, time we started using what we have in abundance, rather than depending on others.



Agree with the bottom para, wholeheartedly.  We are wasting so much energy on traditional compressor base airconditioning when all you have to do is dig a few pipes a couple of dozen feet underground and run coolant to an exchanger and end up with year-round 56 deg air.  Heat a smidge in winter for heat and as is for cooling.  

But a 2kwh wind turbine, turnkey installation with 80ft mast and all hooked up to the grid will run you 50k+ installed.  I know, I've priced it to death in my area.   I'm no mechanic or electrician and could never hope to use a "kit".  Besides, I like 15 year warranties on that type stuff....


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## Warner (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm curious just how much wind power can be pulled before it has its own climate effects.  This is the problem with many "green" energy sources.  They really aren't so green when done in mass.

For instance, put a big enough solar power array (whichever tech.) in the Mojave desert to power a significant portion of LA and you have wiped out the desert ecosystem and probably also changed the local weather patterns.

All these systems pull energy from the environment and if done on a large enough scale there will be consequences.

As far as I can see the only realistic large scale alternative energy sources are, in order, geothermal, nuclear, and perhaps a ERH (Earth-Rate-Horizontal) tap (which has the consequence of slowing the Earth's rotation but so slightly it would not matter for 10's of thousands of years).

What we really need is some kind of closed system heat->electricity technology.  Something like a probe that when heated would generate electricity without moving parts.  The current need to drill a well into a superheated steam basin makes geothermal a hit-and-miss proposition.  We can find heat easily, but finding a hot fractured formation loaded with abundant water is a guessing game.  And even when you do hit it the caustic nature of the steam is a cost issue as well since turbines which can hold up to such steam are expensive to build and to maintain.


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## Remey688 (Nov 4, 2008)

Jeepers said:


> Wind generators do not provide a steady stream of electricity.. They work as a trickle charger but you will still need capture the energy in batteries. I 've not heard of a direct AC generator either... You would need to convert the stored power from DC to AC unless you were going to wire the house in DC.




DC would be good for lighting IMO. The big electrical tickets, refrigerator, stove & oven, A/C etc would be tricky with DC in my opinion.


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## Zoomie1980 (Nov 5, 2008)

Warner said:


> I'm curious just how much wind power can be pulled before it has its own climate effects.  This is the problem with many "green" energy sources.  They really aren't so green when done in mass.
> 
> For instance, put a big enough solar power array (whichever tech.) in the Mojave desert to power a significant portion of LA and you have wiped out the desert ecosystem and probably also changed the local weather patterns.
> 
> ...



You don't need geothermal formations like Yellowstone to have effective geothermal based home heating and cooling systems.  the natural temperature of the ground below the solar heating level is a constant 56 degrees.  Simply place pipes and exchangers underground and you have constant 56 degree air.  Heat a little for warmth in winter and just pipe it through your house in summer.  Got a friend of mine who has three acres with a hillside on one side.  Drilled pipes into the hillside and runs high transfer "coolant' through them and heats and cools his house on it.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 8, 2008)

Geothermal Energy  


 Geothermal energy is, literally, the heat of the earth. The heat itself derives from radioactive decay beneath the earth's surface and, in certain locations, it is concentrated enough and is close enough to surface waters to be brought to the surface for a variety of purposes. When it is above 150 degrees C (302 F), it is usually considered hot enough to be used to generate electricity as it is in Italy, El Salvador, Mexico, Japan, Iceland, and Indonesia, among other countries. No such operations exist in Arizona, but several power plants are currently in operation just west of Yuma, Arizona in the Imperial Valley of southeastern California. Although some high temperature geothermal resources exist southeast of Phoenix near the now-retired Williams Air Force Base, they have never been deemed economically feasible.

Resources less than 150 degrees C, have wide non-electric applicability. Indeed, the worldwide potential of such temperatures is many times larger than that used to generate electricity. Such temperatures are used in greenhouses, hot baths, onion dehydration, laundries, and even hotel space heating. The capital of Iceland is almost entirely heated with geothermal water. Several heating districts exist in the US, although none are as large as those in Iceland. These include projects in Reno, Klamath Falls, Boise, Susanville, and other locations. The best source of information in the US on such non-electric applications is the Oregon Institute of Technology Geo-Heat Center.

In Arizona, the opportunity to use geothermal water is limited, in part by population distribution, yet at least three locations are well known. These are Buckhorn Baths in Apache Junction, Castle Hot Springs in the Bradshaw Mountains, and Childs on the Verde River. Additionally, the two highest temperature springs in the state are Clifton and Gillard, both in the Clifton-Morenci area of southeastern Arizona. The water temperature at these springs ranges from 158-180 degrees Fahrenheit. Even though temperatures may exceed 284 degrees Fahrenheit at depth, these two sites are only suitable for low grad steam.

The only types of geothermal energy to be commercially developed are those called "hydrothermal". These include steam, as developed at The Geysers (north of San Francisco), and liquid, as developed in southeastern California. Geothermal energy is also available in several other forms. One of these forms, known as hot-dry rock has attracted some attention in the volcanic areas of the White Mountains, east of Phoenix. In such resource areas, heat is available, but there is insufficient water to conduct the heat to the surface. In some of these cooler climes, geothermal heat pumps might be a sensible application. The Geothermal Heat Pump Consortium maintains a web site with more information.

In summary, major geothermal resources exist near but not in Arizona. The resource that exists in the state has been recognized and, to some degree, explored, but no sites are considered economically commercial at this time. For more information on geothermal power, visit: http://www.geothermal.org/links.html

Other Renewables > Geothermal Energy


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## USAMan1776 (Nov 23, 2008)

Something we might want to consider is the licensing required if we procede to make the alternative energy projects viable on our own property. Some areas will refuse you to have standing windmills for your own home. But a most excellent idea though. It's good to see so many clear intelligent individuals comming together to form a stronger team.


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## Helsetemp (Nov 29, 2008)

Posting an image of the turbine?


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## Old Rocks (Nov 29, 2008)

Helsetemp said:


> Posting an image of the turbine?



Go here;

Maine-Built Windmills from Scratch


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## thomas78 (Mar 21, 2010)

A good topic. I like the fact that people are getting involved in green energy solutions. Check this page out for a review:
Earth4Energy Review


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