# August 6



## Unkotare (Aug 5, 2018)

1945


73 years have passed since the first use of an atomic weapon in war. Most of the 150,000 victims were civilians. Women, children, the elderly. The effects of this new weapon on real people shocked the conscience of the world, and its use at that time is still debated to this day. 

Regardless of one's position on Truman's decision, it is fitting to take a moment to remember so many lives taken and the horror of war in general. There is a reason the monument to the event in the city is called the Peace Park.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 5, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> 1945
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> 73 years have passed since the first use of an atomic weapon in war. Most of the 150,000 victims were civilians. Women, children, the elderly. The effects of this new weapon on real people shocked the conscience of the world, and its use at that time is still debated to this day.
> ...


Where’s the monument located for what the Japanese did to women and children in China and Korea?

Yes, human life is precious. And people who had no part in the war died that day. 

But a nations people must atone for the actions it started.


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## gulfman (Aug 5, 2018)

I'd rather remember those killed at Pearl Harbor.Japan brought the atomic bomb on themselves


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## Unkotare (Aug 5, 2018)

gulfman said:


> I'd rather remember those killed at Pearl Harbor....




You can remember both.


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## whitehall (Aug 5, 2018)

Democrats dumped a reasonable smart Vice President Henry Wallace and replaced him with a dumb little bean counter Missouri senator Harry Truman when they knew that FDR was dying and would not live out his 4th term. Truman became president within three months of becoming vice president just like the democrat radicals planned. Japan was defeated and dying with no air cover to resist constant daylight raids and no effective navy. There were Bushido army holdouts but they could have been starved into submission or ordered to surrender without the use of the horrible weapon. Truman was a stooge without a clue and refused to negotiate with the defeated Japanese except for unconditional surrender (one of the major conditions was not to execute the emperor and it was confirmed after we reduced men, women and children to hot ash). Meanwhile the Japanese holdouts were trying to negotiate terms with Stalin. Truman signed the order to drop the Bomb and the egg heads who developed the abomination got their wish to use it on (sub) humans.


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## DGS49 (Aug 5, 2018)

Whitehall, you are an idiot.  Japan was nowhere near surrender.  PLAN B was to reposition the thousands of 4-engine bombers from the European theater and use them to attack Japan and reduce the entire country to rubble.  That is what the atomic bombs prevented.  The Bombs saved hundreds of thousands of lives.


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## sealybobo (Aug 5, 2018)

whitehall said:


> Democrats dumped a reasonable smart Vice President Henry Wallace and replaced him with a dumb little bean counter Missouri senator Harry Truman when they knew that FDR was dying and would not live out his 4th term. Truman became president within three months of becoming vice president just like the democrat radicals planned. Japan was defeated and dying with no air cover to resist constant daylight raids and no effective navy. There were Bushido army holdouts but they could have been starved into submission or ordered to surrender without the use of the horrible weapon. Truman was a stooge without a clue and refused to negotiate with the defeated Japanese except for unconditional surrender (one of the major conditions was not to execute the emperor and it was confirmed after we reduced men, women and children to hot ash). Meanwhile the Japanese holdouts were trying to negotiate terms with Stalin. Truman signed the order to drop the Bomb and the egg heads who developed the abomination got their wish to use it on (sub) humans.



Yea, it’s hard to be compassionate about people who fought so ferociously. Who were so cruel to their pows. But I guess they had to do what they had to do. But so did we.

I have a saying. Don’t screw with me and then be shocked at how I respond.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 5, 2018)

I attended the Black Ship Festival when stationed in Japan many a year ago.............It celebrates PEACE and the roads had Japanese and American Flags all over the place.  When walking through the area.........Japanese people showed us the Peace symbol with their hands repeatedly and we did the same.  
They were basically saying to NEVER AGAIN go to War and promised not to do so again.

The Atom bomb is an abomination to mankind................Man has had and still has the capability to kill everyone on the planet..........and man is probably stupid enough to do it in time..............It's something that we should wish was never invented...........but reality is different.

Let's just hope the MAD Principle stays sane.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 5, 2018)




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## night_son (Aug 5, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> 1945
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> 73 years have passed since the first use of an atomic weapon in war. Most of the 150,000 victims were civilians. Women, children, the elderly. The effects of this new weapon on real people shocked the conscience of the world, and its use at that time is still debated to this day.
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Perhaps one moment in history we will never repeat.


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## sealybobo (Aug 5, 2018)

night_son said:


> Unkotare said:
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Same for the attack on Pearl Harbor


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 5, 2018)

sealybobo said:


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I don't believe that is the Point of the OP.................not sure........

I believe it is a point about Nuclear Weapons in General.

No one gives Japan a pass for attacking us.........and I'd go as far to say the Atom Bomb actually saved lives because it shortened the war.

But Nukes are dangerous to mankind...........and I hope mankind can keep a lid on them............


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## Confounding (Aug 5, 2018)

gulfman said:


> I'd rather remember those killed at Pearl Harbor.Japan brought the atomic bomb on themselves



Japan had already been defeated by the time we dropped the bombs. We were fire bombing their cities uncontested because they no longer had an air force to oppose us. Our military incinerated cities full of innocent men, women and children just to test the bombs on a civilian population. It was disgusting. We have no right to criticize anybody.


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## Confounding (Aug 5, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


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The war with Japan was already over. We did it to test them on a civilian population and show Russia our willingness to use them.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 5, 2018)

Confounding said:


> gulfman said:
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Japan had no intention of surrendering. The Council was controlled by hardliners and ONLY after the 2nd atomic bomb was dropped did the Emperor intervene to end the war and then the Army staged a Coup to stop THAT.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 5, 2018)

Confounding said:


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Lie much? We dropped them to stop an invasion that would have seen a million allied casualties and probably the death of 6 to 8 million Japanese.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 5, 2018)

Confounding said:


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My uncles and dad would say different................especially some of my uncles.............who were waiting for the invasion orders to end the War........

They believed we'd lose a million people taking the island of Japan..............and they were there...........I believe them over you.


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## Confounding (Aug 5, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


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They had no air force left. We were bringing terror from the skies completely unopposed. Surrender was inevitable. It wasn't necessary to do what we did. It was out of a lack of respect for life. We could have just left and they would have had no way to continue fighting us.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 5, 2018)

Confounding said:


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Wrong as usual the Japanese Government intended to hold out for a negotiated settlement, guess what they wanted? Wait you do not have to guess they stated it. They wanted basically a ceasefire where all land taken from them was returned and we went back to the Nov 1941 start lines everywhere but China. No foreigners in Japan and removal of their Government. They made this demand even AFTER the first bomb was dropped and after the second they still refused to surrender, it took the intervention of the Emperor to end the war and THEN the Army which controlled the Government staged a Coup to prevent the Emperor from surrendering.


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## regent (Aug 5, 2018)

I was coming home on a navy hospital ship, during the bomb dropping period. We got the news every day and I remember well the day Japan surrendered. What struck me was that Instead of cheers of joy and huzzahs the entire ship became silent, so silent that for the first time I could hear the noise of the ship's rudder adjusting to keep the "Bountiful" on course.


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## Unkotare (Aug 5, 2018)

DGS49 said:


> Whitehall, you are an idiot.  Japan was nowhere near surrender.  ....




 Yes it was. Feelers had been sent out sometime prior for terms to sue for peace.


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## Unkotare (Aug 5, 2018)

night_son said:


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Let’s hope.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 5, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Again the ONLY terms Japanese Government offered was a ceasefire and return to Nov 1941 start lines.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


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The terms offered were the same as what was eventually accepted anyway.


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## there4eyeM (Aug 6, 2018)

Is it possible that some actually think the Japanese people had a voice in the military clique that ran Japan? Can we seriously hold that vengeance on civilians is justified by what radical militarists inflicted?
That humans could take the marvelous revelations about the universe that physics delivered and be so stupid as to turn out massively destructive instruments is a profoundly sad commentary on our species.


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## Erinwltr (Aug 6, 2018)

regent said:


> I was coming home on a navy hospital ship, during the bomb dropping period. We got the news every day and I remember well the day Japan surrendered. What struck me was that Instead of cheers of joy and huzzahs the entire ship became silent, so silent that for the first time I could hear the noise of the ship's rudder adjusting to keep the "Bountiful" on course.


I did not know.  Thank you.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

I have a book on Truman that I've yet to read (I will get to it, though). I can imagine he didn't sleep for the better part of a week after making that decision. Even though it was clearly the right call, innocent men, women and children paid an unthinkable price. That said, fuck Obama for apologizing; what a fucking worm.


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## gtopa1 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Yes, but peace is not surrender. There was the bushido mob to contend with, and only the Emperor could deal with those.

Greg


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

night_son said:


> Perhaps one moment in history we will never repeat.



Don't count on it. There are a lot of nuclear capabilities out there; and we've seen a lot of shameless politics by Democrats and Republicans who clearly don't have a fine enough appreciation for the danger.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Next page.


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## gtopa1 (Aug 6, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Is it possible that some actually think the Japanese people had a voice in the military clique that ran Japan? Can we seriously hold that vengeance on civilians is justified by what radical militarists inflicted?
> That humans could take the marvelous revelations about the universe that physics delivered and be so stupid as to turn out massively destructive instruments is a profoundly sad commentary on our species.



Didn't they say the same thing about the Long Bow?

The US made a decision that was right at the time. I doubt anyone in the US or Australia then gave two hoots for anyone Japanese. It is to Japan's credit that they have permanently denounced Militarism; they are now a peace loving folk unless unjustifiably roused. And their export sector is absolutely first class. 

Greg


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

This is the saddest picture I've seen in a really long time, honestly.


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## gtopa1 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Hi Unko; you have a link to that? I did some study on Japan many years ago but that was always a point that seemed blurred. It has interested me for many years. 

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Aug 6, 2018)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> This is the saddest picture I've seen in a really long time, honestly.



You've not seen the victims of Japanese bayonet practice in China; good. They'd make you ill as they did me. 

Greg


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## gtopa1 (Aug 6, 2018)

PLEASE NO ONE LOOK AT THIS UNLESS YOU ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT>

r/WTF - This is a Japanese soldier bayonetting a Chinese baby during the rape of Nanjing

Greg


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

gtopa1 said:


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I'm familiar with Japanese soldier brutality. That's why I  'd when I heard about them setting a record for getting eaten by crocodiles in one instance. But nobody wants innocent girls blinded if it can be avoided. And may God have mercy on anyone of that mindset.

Source: An army of 1000 Japanese soldiers was decimated by saltwater crocodiles during the Battle of Ramree Island of World War II.


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## Erinwltr (Aug 6, 2018)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> night_son said:
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Nor does the Orange Glow.


What is up with your signature??


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> Nor does the Orange Glow.



And you believe this why?


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## JoeB131 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> 73 years have passed since the first use of an atomic weapon in war. Most of the 150,000 victims were civilians. Women, children, the elderly. The effects of this new weapon on real people shocked the conscience of the world, and its use at that time is still debated to this day.
> 
> Regardless of one's position on Truman's decision, it is fitting to take a moment to remember so many lives taken and the horror of war in general. There is a reason the monument to the event in the city is called the Peace Park.



Even though the use of Atomic Bombs was probably unnecessary, I don't think that a the time, there was the drama and dread we have today. 

We had been at war for 4 years, and had sustained half a million casualties at that point. This was just another weapon.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> What is up with your signature??



It straightforward details how Hillary/Twitter cheated. What don't you get?


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Even though the use of Atomic Bombs was probably unnecessary



Blow it out your ass, Obama nut hugger. You know the staggering estimates of troop deaths to take Japan without the A-bomb.


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## Erinwltr (Aug 6, 2018)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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It's not straight forward and I do get a lot.  A simple question is not an attack.  Get over yourself.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


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There was no attack. You should get over yourself, clearly.


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## Erinwltr (Aug 6, 2018)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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Can you please clarify the signature? What's hard about that?


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## sparky (Aug 6, 2018)

Rumour is, 5 out of 6 generals opposed the bomb.....

~S~


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


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It's been too long since I read the article; but essentially a group wanted to use the icons to get the word out on Clinton corruption, and Twitter censored or disallowed the use of the emojis by willing participants. If you're interested, do a Google search.


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## Erinwltr (Aug 6, 2018)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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Okay, thank you.  Damn.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


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I knew my memory would fade. But it was quite egregious, so I actually did the graphic work myself to preserve the images; and given that I pretty well do next to nothing in that capacity, that's saying something.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


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A quick search isn't yielding whatever article I read. But as you can see, the dishonest media companies are in the tank for Democrats.

#HillaryForPrision is trending, but not for the reason Clinton haters think
Trump’s Twitter fans want Hillary in “prision,” not prison. Here's why.


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## there4eyeM (Aug 6, 2018)

There was no good reason for U.S. troops to invade a pre-surrender Japan.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

Here's more

Twitter accused of censoring 'Zombie Hillary'
Twitter Admits to Blocking Anti-Hillary Tweets During 2016 Campaign
Twitter Admits It Buried "Podesta Email", DNC Tweets Ahead Of The Presidential Election
Did Twitter Censor WikiLeaks' DNC Email Dump?


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## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 6, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> There was no good reason for U.S. troops to invade a pre-surrender Japan.



To end the war.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

DGS49 said:


> Whitehall, you are an idiot.  Japan was nowhere near surrender.  PLAN B was to reposition the thousands of 4-engine bombers from the European theater and use them to attack Japan and reduce the entire country to rubble.  That is what the atomic bombs prevented.  The Bombs saved hundreds of thousands of lives.


Plus the attempted coup AFTER the bombs to keep the war going.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Confounding said:


> gulfman said:
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While the rape camps in Korea and China continued. 
Should have dropped 5 more.


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## there4eyeM (Aug 6, 2018)

The war was over. Things were getting prepared for the next one.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> The war was over. Things were getting prepared for the next one.


Delusional. I had friends in the Pacific being shot at on Aug 6.


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## williepete (Aug 6, 2018)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> I have a book on Truman that I've yet to read



I hope it's David McCullough's excellent book.

This Pulitzer prize winning book is extremely well researched like all McCullough's work. It puts the use of the bomb in proper _context_.


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## Confounding (Aug 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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The unneeded killing of innocents does just justify the unneeded killing of more innocents. Warmongers will never understand.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

A-Bombing of Japan Was Unnecessary


Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective


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## there4eyeM (Aug 6, 2018)

There were choices. America made the worst one.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Chicago Tribune History

Was Hiroshima Necessary?


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Hiroshima: Opposition to Dropping the Atomic Bomb | Voices Education Project


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

"In my opinion, the Japanese war was really won before we ever used the atom bomb. Thus, it wouldn't have been necessary for us to disclose our nuclear position and stimulate the Russians to develop the same thing much more rapidly than they would have if we had not dropped the bomb."


*                  - RALPH BARD*

_                  Under Secretary of the Navy_


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## there4eyeM (Aug 6, 2018)

If a bomb had to be dropped, it should have been where Stalin and the clique running Russia were concentrated. 
Does that shock? Well, it isn't any more appalling than what was actually done and strategically makes more sense..


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Folks who fall back on "we had no choice! It saved lives!" are avoiding the moral component of a complex issue.

"This story may assuage the conscience of the air museum visitor, but it is largely myth, fashioned to buttress our memories of the “good” war. By and large, the top generals and admirals who managed World War II knew better."

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

"Consider the small and little-noticed plaque hanging in the National Museum of the US Navy that accompanies the replica of “Little Boy,” 

                     "... clearly indicates that “the vast destruction wreaked by the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the loss of 135,000 people made little impact on the Japanese military.”"


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

“The use of this barbarous weapon…was of no material assistance in our war against Japan.” —Adm. William Leahy, Truman's Chief of Staff


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

“It was a mistake.... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.” —Adm. William “Bull” Halsey


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

"Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.” Even the famous “hawk” Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.”"


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Confounding said:


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Except your publik edjekation did not inform you the Japanese military was continuing the war after the second bomb.
Even to the point of a coup.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> "Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.” Even the famous “hawk” Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.”"


Ike was in the European Theater and had no first hand knowledge.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> A-Bombing of Japan Was Unnecessary
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> Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective


Death by being trapped in a burning building is a much better method.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

williepete said:


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McCullough is a great historian who has excellent communication skills.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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I knew the yeabuts were coming...


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Ike was not involved. Deal with it.

As I said earlier, I have a friend who was being shot at on August 6.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Weatherman2020 said:


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 Now you're just making a fool of yourself.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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I'm sure Stalin and Churchill had opinions too, but that's all they are. Opinions.


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> 1945
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> 73 years have passed since the first use of an atomic weapon in war. Most of the 150,000 victims were civilians. Women, children, the elderly. The effects of this new weapon on real people shocked the conscience of the world, and its use at that time is still debated to this day.
> ...




I only remember the victims of Pearl Harbor.  Japan should have thought ahead of the consequences, they brought the victims on themselves.  Truman did the right thing and should anyone do it again, I hope Trump nukes them into little glass beads.  In the right hands, the nuclear bomb has kept the peace for over 70 years.


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


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It's always been my understanding that Japan really wanted to invade the US mainland, but their generals talked him out of it telling them so many Americans had guns that there would be a rifle behind every rock and tree.  Long live the 2nd Amendment.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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And for the record, I've got a number of friends who were in the Pacific at the time. Air, sea and land. Only one is left on this earth now. Also, one of my best friends was a Japanese citizen for decades after I met him. His dad was in the Imperial Japanese Army during the war. And when he came to see his son in 1988 I treated them to an Angels baseball game because they both loved baseball.

But the stories of my American military friends and the historical facts we now know is what drives my opinion.

You can say maybe this and maybe that, but there are no facts to support your hypothetical scenarios.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


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Wrong the Japanese demanded that the war end they be given back all their lost territory and the lines revert to Nov 1941.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> A-Bombing of Japan Was Unnecessary
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> Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective





Unkotare said:


> Chicago Tribune History
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> Was Hiroshima Necessary?


The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II: A Collection of Primary Sources The Japanese had NO intention of surrendering, even after 2 atomic bombs the emperor had to intervene and even then the Army attempted a coup to stop the surrender.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


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You think those 130,000 + women and children were part of the planning and execution of the attack on the Pearl Harbor Naval Base?


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


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That is untrue. If you’re going to quote something, at least read it.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Read the Chicago Tribune story.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Are you drunk? I’m the one providing FACTS and direct quotes from political and military leaders of the time. You’ve offered nothing but vague references to personal anecdotes. 

Read the links I provided, and try harder.


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
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Doesn't matter.  Casualties of war.  I care a lot more about all the helpless and innocent people killed at Pearl Harbor, beguiled by false Japanese promises of peace.  The Japanese tried the ultimate cowardly sneak, and they got the ass-whooping they deserved.  I only wish we would have dropped a third bomb, maybe AFTER the surrender, just for good measure.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


I can provide links that the moon is made from cheese. 

Fact remains Japan was not surrendering and was in the process of butchering innocents.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Confounding said:
> ...




You think anyone was that stupid?


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


I read it retard.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


None of the military leaders you find in any of those stories were involved in fighting the Japanese and had zero clue what it was like. As for 130000 innocent Japanese guess what dumb ass the Japanese Government ordered its civilian population to arm itself with bamboo spears and human wave attack any landings and based on the actions of the Japanese populations on Saipan and Okinawa they would have done it too.

As for surrender what part of the Emperor had to intervene don't you understand? What part of the Army attempted a Coup to stop the Emperor from surrenderig DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > toobfreak said:
> ...






“Doesn’t matter”? Loss of civilian life on that scale doesn’t matter? Our military leaders - men far your superior - would not be so cavalier.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Again dumb ass the japanese Government had NO INTENTION of surrendering. After 2 atomic Bombs they refused to surrender and had to be ordered to by the Emperor and then they attempted a Coup to stop THAT.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...




In other words, you have none.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




It sure doesn’t seem so.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Again for the slow and painfully STUPID the Japanese Government REFUSED to surrender even after 2 atomic bombs, the Emperor intervened and ordered the surrender and the Japanese Army attempted a Coup to stop that. So tell us again how they were just gonna surrender again?


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...




But you do? 

I wonder why Generals and Admirals make decisions on planning and executing military strategy instead of every private in every branch?


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > toobfreak said:
> ...




That is your speculation at most. Read the links.


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
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> > Unkotare said:
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DOESN'T MATTER, Shithead.  I am so sick of your sniveling and whining, can't blame America for everything fast enough.  I care no more than I did all the dead Germans (I'm German) it took to stop Hitler.  It doesn't matter if 500,000 innocent Germans were killed to get to Hitler, all that mattered is that HE STARTED IT and we were going to stop him AT ANY COST.  If those people in Japan were an expendable loss to their own damned government, then they certainly were to us.  Killing them SAVED LIVES in the total big picture and that is all that mattered.

As a matter of fact, more lives than that were lost, killed by ISIS, due to Obama's intransigence over calling ISIS a JV team.  Suck on that.

Shoulda nuked the entire Japanese archipelago then there wouldn't have been no need to surrender anyone.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > toobfreak said:
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We didn’t have any more A-bombs at that point, dumbass.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > toobfreak said:
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Empty blather from an irrelevant gas bag.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Via the ultra top secret documents provided on this thread.............Japan was told to unconditionally surrender or be turned to ash.................That ultimatum was rejected...............

Japan was trying to get a better deal via the Russians which failed............They had already lost and were trying to negotiate better terms for surrender when they were in no position to make such demands.  They had already lost the War..........it was only a matter of how many died before it was over.

The Hardliners of the Japanese Army wanted to fight to the death............The Emperor and others were basically begging to surrender to avoid complete destruction. Their arguments cost them Hiroshima and Nagasaki.............

The Allied Ultamatum was not a bluff.................The bombs were dropped..........and Japan surrendered.

We have no need to apologize for using the bombs............our fathers who fought there DIDN'T CARE...........They knew that their lives were on the line if they had to invade the mainland...................and they were being told the invasion were coming.........One of my uncles told me the bombs saved his life..........I have no reason to doubt him because he fought there.

It is history............and it's how it went down.............complaining about it now is useless....serves no purpose.


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## there4eyeM (Aug 6, 2018)

Japan was prostrate. It only required sitting on the ships surrounding it waiting for the white flags to go up. They had no more war making capacity. Yes, it is possible more Japanese would have died of starvation than died in the bombs, but the onus would be on Japanese leaders, not America's. 
It is bad enough just living with the act. Cheering about it is quite sick.


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
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We could have built them.  Maybe neutron bombs.  Meantime, carpet and cluster bomb them to keep them busy.  One big Japanese x-ray.  Zzzzzzzt.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


It is NOT speculation it is fact, the Army controlled the Government and as the record shows REFUSED to surrender even after 2 atomic bombs were dropped and when the Emperor ordered a surrender the Army staged a failed coup to stop him.


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Japan was prostrate. It only required sitting on the ships surrounding it waiting for the white flags to go up. They had no more war making capacity. Yes, it is possible more Japanese would have died of starvation than died in the bombs, but the onus would be on Japanese leaders, not America's.
> It is bad enough just living with the act. Cheering about it is quite sick.




Not if you lost two uncles at Pearl Harbor.  Screw the Japs.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > toobfreak said:
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Tell it to someone who has done that, asshole, ‘cause it ain’t me.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > Japan was prostrate. It only required sitting on the ships surrounding it waiting for the white flags to go up. They had no more war making capacity. Yes, it is possible more Japanese would have died of starvation than died in the bombs, but the onus would be on Japanese leaders, not America's.
> ...





Stop pretending you’re a WWII vet, douche bag.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > Japan was prostrate. It only required sitting on the ships surrounding it waiting for the white flags to go up. They had no more war making capacity. Yes, it is possible more Japanese would have died of starvation than died in the bombs, but the onus would be on Japanese leaders, not America's.
> ...


Father N Law was at Pearl when they attacked.................he never once talked about what he saw there...........Refused...........

As a Radioman in WWII...............he saw too many die and would not talk about it.....................My dad did ........was on a tender..............Kamikazee hit the ship..............useless but did it anyway................The Tires from the plane were Goodyear tires.........................


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Order To Kill All POWs

*Saved by the skin of their teeth*
The Japanese were expecting an Allied invasion of Thailand on or around 21 August 1945, and were set to annihilate the prisoners on that date. (In fact, the Allies were planning to land in Thailand on 18 August, so the prisoners' demise may have been even more imminent than that.)

So, when Japan surrendered on 15 August, the Thailand prisoners were less than a week away (and POWs in the other territories less than a month away) from their planned execution date.

*Now that Japan had surrendered – prompted by the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – no Allied invasions would be necessary*.

The timing of the atomic bombs had therefore been crucial: If the war had been continued by conventional means for just a short time longer, the prisoners and internees would have been killed.

*Impact of the atomic bombs*
The atomic bombs thus saved approximately 123,000 military and civilian prisoners from imminent death.
*This equates to roughly half the combined death toll at Hiroshima and Nagasaki – and that is before we begin to consider the massive further losses (on both sides) that a prolonged land war would have entailed.*
_Yet the last-minute salvation of these 123,000 people is hardly ever mentioned – even by those experts who recognise that the bombs saved far more lives than they destroyed. _


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
> ...



I didn't say BROTHERS, dickwad, I said UNCLES.  My dad and 3 uncles all fought in WWII.  Go back and learn basic math.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Japan’s Biological and Chemical Warfare in China during WWII

*Unprecedented Scale of Biological/Chemical Warfare*

The biological weapon attack in Zhejiang province is just one of many thousands of biological and chemical warfare attacks by the Japanese army in many parts of China during the Sino-Japanese War of 1931-1945. These included places in the provinces of Hunan, Jiangsu, Jilin, Kwangtung, Yunnan, and Heilongjiang.

As to chemical warfare, such as using poisonous gases, it has been estimated that during the 14 years of the Sino-Japanese War, Japan used poisonous gases more than 2,000 times in 77 counties of 14 provinces in direct violation of the 1925 Geneva Protocol on prohibition on the use of chemical weapons, which Japan had also signed. These attacks killed tens of thousands of Chinese, including many civilians.

Furthermore, when WWII came to a close, Japan abandoned a myriad of chemical weapons in China (as many as hundreds of thousands of poison gas weapons) by burying them underground or dumping them in rivers. Many have started to leak and led to civilian deaths and injuries. The United Nations’ Chemical Weapons Convention, which came into force in 1997, requires Japan to retrieve and dispose of these weapons. Major efforts for the toxic cleanup have been negotiated by the Chinese and Japanese governments. The Japanese consulting company Pacific Consultants International (PCI) won the exclusive contract from the Japanese government to retrieve these weapons, but unfortunately this company apparently resorted to fraudulent means to milk the contract. The former president and four others of PCI were arrested in May 2008 on suspicion of fraud. According to the contract, all the remaining poisonous shells and canisters were supposed to have been recovered and disposed of by spring 2007. After spending nearly 50 billion yen (or about U.S. $500 million), only 40,000 shells had been retrieved, and the completion deadline has been extended to 2012 (from the May 16, 2008 article “Chemical Weapons” in The Asahi Shimbun). Therefore, this continues to pose a major, serious health hazard for the Chinese population


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




It most certainly is. Read the links.


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## toobfreak (Aug 6, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
> ...




The Japanese can burn in hell.  Should've dropped FOUR fucking bombs.  Then shot all their leaders, killed all the men and sold all the women into the sex trade to pay back those lost American lives.

If you think I'm harsh, just consider what the Japs WOULD HAVE DONE had they won the war against us?


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unit 731 pics..................


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > toobfreak said:
> ...





You’re an emoting child.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Look you lying piece of human garbage the link is clear, even after 2 atomic bombs the Japanese Government REFUSED to SURRENDER. The Emperor intervened and ordered a surrender and then the Army staged a Coup to stop that. The Government had no intention of surrendering.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Batan Death Memorial..........


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> Japan’s Biological and Chemical Warfare in China during WWII
> 
> *Unprecedented Scale of Biological/Chemical Warfare*
> 
> ...




 So the atomic bomb‘s were dropped in an act of revenge on behalf of China? Really? Is that really what motivated our military decisions?


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

After posting the atrocities of what Japan did during the War...........................

My father, and uncles didn't give a shit that we used the Bombs............

They lived and fought that War.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Japan’s Biological and Chemical Warfare in China during WWII
> ...


I didn't say that...................I said that Japan was given the option to Surrender or be turned into ash........They chose ash..............................these posts were to remind you what they did during this War................

They weren't nice people now were they....................They should have never attacked us............and they should have surrendered when given the chance...........

They brought this on themselves.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Did you read the article about Thailand...........and how Japan had given orders to execute all POW's there..........which were saved when Japan Surrendered.......................

Guess you skipped over that.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




 Speculation. Read the links.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


You read the SOURCE document DUMB ASS it is coming directly FROM the Japanese high command. The Army REFUSED to surrender and staged a Coup when the Emperor ordered a surrender, NO SPECULATION INVOLVED just cold hard FACTS. The Army CONTROLLED the Japanese Government and absolutely REFUSED to surrender. No speculation no guess work just hard cold facts. You fucking RETARD.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> Did you read the article about Thailand...........and how Japan had given orders to execute all POW's there..........which were saved when Japan Surrendered.......................
> 
> Guess you skipped over that.




If military leadership felt that were imminent, it would certainly be a strong consideration in making the decision. However, one wonders why this command was not activated by the invasion of Okinawa. Furthermore, why wouldn’t the annihilation of over 100,000 civilians trigger such a final act of nihilistic rage? Seems like something that would be part of negotiating terms of surrender.

The likelihood that there were different factions at odds within the collapsing government must have been considered by our military and political leadership.

With feelers out about negotiating terms of surrender, it would have to be evident that any such slaughter would obviate the possibility of a negotiated peace. 

As I’ve said all along, it is a complex and problematic issue.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




The FACT is that surrender was being considered and terms offered for negotiation. You just can’t control your emotions.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > toobfreak said:
> ...




If you’re going to be an emo-queen, don’t pretend you’re interested in discussing history.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...




It is all but certain that I have studied this history far more frequently and in greater depth than you, so you need not concern yourself with reminders.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


That is very arrogant of you and disregards posts that don't favor your opinion................I again state that my father and uncles would disagree with you............They were there...........they fought that war..........you didn't...........and I didn't....


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...




I have provided direct quotes from military LEADERS of the time.


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## EGR one (Aug 6, 2018)

whitehall said:


> Democrats dumped a reasonable smart Vice President Henry Wallace and replaced him with a dumb little bean counter Missouri senator Harry Truman when they knew that FDR was dying and would not live out his 4th term. Truman became president within three months of becoming vice president just like the democrat radicals planned. Japan was defeated and dying with no air cover to resist constant daylight raids and no effective navy. There were Bushido army holdouts but they could have been starved into submission or ordered to surrender without the use of the horrible weapon. Truman was a stooge without a clue and refused to negotiate with the defeated Japanese except for unconditional surrender (one of the major conditions was not to execute the emperor and it was confirmed after we reduced men, women and children to hot ash). Meanwhile the Japanese holdouts were trying to negotiate terms with Stalin. Truman signed the order to drop the Bomb and the egg heads who developed the abomination got their wish to use it on (sub) humans.



Two much misinformation joined with nonsense.  Truman and the US military knew that invading Japan would involve millions of deaths on both sides.  The two A-bombs stopped that slaughter.  Second, the fire bombing of Japanese cities slaughtered far more innocent civilians in a much more horrible way.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


So.......and in the declassified documents the Japanese Army wanted to fight to the death...........

They were offered surrender and refused..............and they paid a price for it................

Countries were in no mood back then for playing any games.........they weren't kidding when they said to ash.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


And yet even after 2 atomic bombs the Government of Japan REFUSED to surrender. And when the Emperor ordered the surrender the Government staged a Coup to stop the surrender. Yup sure sounds like they were just a couple days from surrender if ONLY we had waited.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


NONE of your leaders were INVOLVED in the fight with Japan. NONE of them. I Have Japanese documents from the Government that prove the Government refused to surrender even after 2 atomic bombs and they staged a coup when the emperor ordered a surrender.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...




My leaders? You’re not American?


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Your leaders as in the ones you are citing dumb ass. NONE of them were ever in the Pacific theater and havdn't a clue about the Japanese and their behavior. Again JAPANESE GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS show that the Government was not going to surrender even after two atomic Bombs they refused and the Emperor intervened and ordered a surrender, where upon the Army staged a Coup that failed in an attempt to stop the surrender.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 6, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> There were choices. America made the worst one.



I would agree, but the thing is, we see the atom bomb as this existential threat, but to those folks, it was probably just another weapon in a war that had already killed 70 million.  

Hindsight is always 20/20.


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## peach174 (Aug 6, 2018)

Confounding said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...





Confounding said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Test on Civilians?
They dropped fliers warning them about it.
They refused to believe it and stayed in both cities.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

"...two days prior to Roosevelt's departure for Yalta, the president received a crucial, forty page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from highly placed Jap officials offering surrender terms which were virtually identical to the ones eventually dictated by the Allies to the Japanese in August."

Chicago Tribune History


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> "...two days prior to Roosevelt's departure for Yalta, the president received a crucial, forty page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from highly placed Jap officials offering surrender terms which were virtually identical to the ones eventually dictated by the Allies to the Japanese in August."
> 
> Chicago Tribune History


And NONE of those officials ran the Government, There was a peace contingent but it was out of power. The Army ran the Government. And as the DOCUMENTS prove in August 1945 the Government run by the Army did NOT offer to surrender and did not agree to surrender after each of the Atomic bombs. Even after their "LIVING GOD" emperor ordered a surrender the Army staged a Coup to stop the surrender.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> ....
> Your leaders as in the ones you are citing dumb ass. NONE of them were ever in the Pacific theater and havdn't a clue about the Japanese and their behavior........




Hmmm....how about Admiral Halsey? How about Admiral Nimitz? YOU understand the fighting in the Pacific much better than they did, right? If you had read the links like I repeatedly instructed you to, you wouldn't look so foolish now.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > "...two days prior to Roosevelt's departure for Yalta, the president received a crucial, forty page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from highly placed Jap officials offering surrender terms which were virtually identical to the ones eventually dictated by the Allies to the Japanese in August."
> ...



"highly placed Jap(anese) officials..." Ah, but you know better than MacArthur did about what messages he received. I'm surprised he didn't call you for advice.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


You are the fool MY LINK CLEARLY shows that the Japanese Government did NOT surrender and when ordered to by the emperor they tried to stage a COUP. Wishful thinking does not equate to any surrender WITHOUT the BOMBS.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

"According to Harry Elmer Barnes, Truman was aware of the January surrender offer by the Japanese and privately confessed that both atomic warfare as well as further conventional military operations were unnecessary for concluding the war in the Pacific."


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...





Were Halsey and Nimitz in the Pacific? Did they know anything about the war?


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> "According to Harry Elmer Barnes, Truman was aware of the January surrender offer by the Japanese and privately confessed that both atomic warfare as well as further conventional military operations were unnecessary for concluding the war in the Pacific."
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


And yet NOT a single source document exists that shows the Japanese Government actually offered to surrender. The ONLY offer made was a ceasefire with return to November 1941 start lines. And in August the Army which controlled the Government ND HAD FOR SOME TIME  did not offer to surrender. Even after 2 atomic bombs they refused. And after the emperor overrode them they staged a Coup to stop him from surrendering.


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

"..._*Truman was aware*_ of the *January surrender offer by the Japanese* and privately _confessed that both atomic warfare as well as further conventional military operations were unnecessary for concluding the war in the Pacific_."


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## Ridgerunner (Aug 6, 2018)

The only thing I am going to contribute to this OP is an extreme possibility of being an example of the Progressive movements rewriting history... There is no doubt a us against them mentality in this argument...


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## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> ...... There is no doubt a us against them mentality in this argument...




What argument?


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


So we’re supposed to believe two white guys opinions of the Japanese based on their experiences with them? Two guys you cherry picked. Wouldn’t you make fun of me if I judged all blacks by how blacks treated me and my brother for the 9 years I lived with them?


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## gulfman (Aug 6, 2018)

On August 9th I'm going to celebrate the bombing of Nagasaki


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> 1945
> 
> 
> 73 years have passed since the first use of an atomic weapon in war. Most of the 150,000 victims were civilians. Women, children, the elderly. The effects of this new weapon on real people shocked the conscience of the world, and its use at that time is still debated to this day.
> ...


Who started it? Then stfu. We ended it. No more Americans died. They weren’t going to quit.

Who started it?


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

gulfman said:


> On August 9th I'm going to celebrate the bombing of Nagasaki


I’ll spill a sip of beer


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## Ridgerunner (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> What argument?



a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
"there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal" ·
reasoning · line of reasoning · logic · case · defense ·
[more]


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > What argument?
> ...


Unkotare Is either unable or unwilling to engage


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


He has nothing but opinion to back his position. The actual source documents PROVE the Japanese Government never offered to surrender and was forced to by the Emperor.


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Ridgerunner said:
> ...


Unkotare claims to be Irish but has a total fucking hardon for Japanese men.


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## Pogo (Aug 6, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > 1945
> ...



Really.  You don't know the difference between a nation's military and its populace?

Better get that looked at.


Say, can I nuke England for what they did to my ancestral country?  Same thing.


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

Pogo said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


No we didn’t bomb Tokyo we bombed a few islands. Bomb Ireland


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## Pogo (Aug 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Non sequitur, in so many ways....


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## james bond (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> gulfman said:
> 
> 
> > I'd rather remember those killed at Pearl Harbor....
> ...



No.  Pearl Harbor is remembered Dec 7.  Aug 6 is for the remembrance of those who died in Japan.


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

Pogo said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


Ok then, Japan wouldn’t have cared had we nuked a military installation. There was no one group of military japs that we could have taken out that would have moved the emperor. To the japs he was a god. How do you deal with a cult? You bomb two of their islands.

They shouldn’t have fucked with us.


----------



## james bond (Aug 6, 2018)

I saw this movie Harakiri for the first time last month.  I love chambara or Japanese westerns.  This movie was long on my list as recommended by other fans which I never got to.  Wow.  Not an easy film to watch nor forget.

While it is a movie unrelated to the WW II, its creator/director made it to criticize the thinking and hypocrisy of the Japanese elite and military.  Set in the beginning of the 17th century, it shows the emerging feudalism and the Bushido or warrior code of honor.  However, we see hypocrisy behind it as the film points out how one lordship chose to deal with honor and dishonor.  The appearance of honor turns out to be more important than honor itself.  Perhaps, this is why the Japanese military gained power and attacked Pearl Harbor when there was no reason to.  The US wasn't going to get involved because of the Monroe Doctrine.  There isn't a direct connection, but I can't help but think that this type of feudalistic thinking and colonizers rule mentality that led them to their decision.


----------



## Pogo (Aug 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



I posted nothing about Japan or "Tokyo" or "who should have fucked with who" .

The poster I quoted put forth the proposition that a civilian populace is responsible for the sins of it's nation's military, and thereby deserve to die for those sins.

I challenged that proposition, and for an analogy asked him if it would be OK for me to nuke English people for the sins of their forebears against my ancestral country (which *IS* Ireland).

Nothing in there about "Japan", nothing about "Tokyo" (which isn't even part of the nuke legacy), nothing about "who fucked with whom", nothing about "emperors" or "islands" or any historical event.  He laid out a moral responsibility proposition, I challenged it as specious.  Then he ran away.

Why the fuck would you want to nuke Ireland?


----------



## james bond (Aug 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



This is the exact mentality and reason that I want the wall built.  If we get hit by a dirty bomb brought in by some POS sand n-word terrorist, then there will be no stopping the US peoples retaliating with a nuclear weapon when we find out what country or countries was responsible.  The concentration camps are still there and ready to be filled.  The illegals won't fight for us, so may as well kick them out ASAP!


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

Pogo said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...


Didn’t we bomb the shit out of Germany? Women and children died no?


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## Pogo (Aug 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



I think you're lost here.


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## james bond (Aug 6, 2018)

Pogo said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



The US bombed the sh*t outta Germany and Italy.  They dropped thousands of bombs on railways, harbours, cities, workers' housing and industrial districts in enemy territory.  It still is the basic strategy today in entering war.


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## sealybobo (Aug 6, 2018)

james bond said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


I think he’s lost here


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## Pogo (Aug 6, 2018)

james bond said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Of course it is.  But once AGAIN --- _not the point at all_.  Are you both illiterate?


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## james bond (Aug 6, 2018)

Confounding said:


> gulfman said:
> 
> 
> > I'd rather remember those killed at Pearl Harbor.Japan brought the atomic bomb on themselves
> ...



This is revisionist history.  Japan wasn't going to surrender.  Who told you that?


----------



## james bond (Aug 6, 2018)

Pogo said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



You're the one missing the point here.  The US strategy was strategic aerial bombing first to enter the war in their country.  Before the atomic bombs, there were plenty of regular bombs dropped on Japan.  The atomic bombs weren't to make them surrender, but part of the strategy before entering their country.  The Japanese military considered them superbombs, but weren't ready to give up.  They didn't think the US had that many of them and they figured correctly.  They thought they could withstand more and continue the war.  That's why more than one bomb was dropped.  That used up the nukes the US had.  The Japanese military only surrendered because the Emperor got involved.  To understand their mindset, I highly recommend watching Harakiri (sepukku) film.  It explains the suicide bombers and everything.  It explains the cruelty of the Japanese military.

It wasn't so much nuclear weapons, but you reap what you sow.  People thinking nukes will end wars is bullsh*t.  It's just part of military strategy.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Ridgerunner said:
> ...




I have FACTS and the words of the political and military leaders of the day themselves.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




I claim to be AMERICAN. My ancestors came from Ireland.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 6, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > gulfman said:
> ...





No reason not to remember our servicemen who died while doing their duty on behalf of our nation in a military attack on our military instillation in Hawaii. They deserve to be remembered every day.


----------



## Pogo (Aug 6, 2018)

james bond said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



I don't GIVE A FLYING FUCK, STUPID.  This has *NOTHING* to do with anything I posted about.  **YOU** do not tell **ME** what the fuck my own _point_ is.

Go forth and (a) learn the fuck how to READ and (b) concern yourself with posts that are actually addressed to you, before jumping in to embarrass yourself with both illiterate feet.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


And yet the FACTS are that NO ONE RUNNING the Japanese Government  ACTUALLY offered to surrender as PROVEN by ACTUAL Government records.


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



I don't mean to hurt anyone, but the truth is the US wasn't going to enter the war.  They were arguing about it, but weren't going to be the police for the world.  Their strategic bombing wasn't any different from the Japanese, Germany or any other nation involved in the war.  They bombed the f*ck out of Germany and Italy and then went in.  There are still unexploded bombs in those countries.  Even when we entered the Iraq versus Saddam, we dropped shock and awe bombs before going in.  Today, we have MOAB for conventional bombing and nukes more powerful than that was dropped on Japan.  *THIS IS INSANE!!!*  Who wants to even drop MOABs all over the place???!!!???!!!  Surely, these weapons are only meant for total annihilation.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> I saw this movie Harakiri for the first time last month.  I love chambara or Japanese westerns.  This movie was long on my list as recommended by other fans which I never got to.  Wow.  Not an easy film to watch nor forget.
> 
> While it is a movie unrelated to the WW II, its creator/director made it to criticize the thinking and hypocrisy of the Japanese elite and military.  Set in the beginning of the 17th century, it shows the emerging feudalism and the Bushido or warrior code of honor.  However, we see hypocrisy behind it as the film points out how one lordship chose to deal with honor and dishonor.  The appearance of honor turns out to be more important than honor itself.  Perhaps, this is why the Japanese military gained power and attacked Pearl Harbor when there was no reason to.  The US wasn't going to get involved because of the Monroe Doctrine.  There isn't a direct connection, but I can't help but think that this type of feudalistic thinking and colonizers rule mentality that led them to their decision.







Wow, you are really off in your own little world.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



No, they aren’t.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Confounding said:
> 
> 
> > gulfman said:
> ...





Japan told MacArthur that, for one.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...





Many already do.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> "...two days prior to Roosevelt's departure for Yalta, the president received a crucial, forty page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from highly placed Jap officials offering surrender terms which were virtually identical to the ones eventually dictated by the Allies to the Japanese in August."
> 
> Chicago Tribune History


.


----------



## gipper (Aug 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> night_son said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...





eagle1462010 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > night_son said:
> ...



Only a fool would equate the attack on Pearl Harbor and Truman’s criminal act of incinerating women and children.


----------



## gipper (Aug 7, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> Confounding said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


The million figure is propaganda made up after Truman was criticized for his war crimes.  

Japan was done.  Her young fighting men dead. No Air Force and no navy.  No food. No oil. 

Do you think they were going to kill American troops with pitch forks?


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Aug 7, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> williepete said:
> 
> 
> > TheGreatGatsby said:
> ...



Yea, it's taht one IIRC.


----------



## JoeB131 (Aug 7, 2018)

I take exception of trying to make Japan out to be a "Victim" in WWII. 

They weren't. They were one of the most guilty players after Nazi Germany.  

And they haven't shown all that much remorse.  The Germans are STILL apologizing.


----------



## there4eyeM (Aug 7, 2018)

The subversion of democracy by the military absolves the Japanese people of responsibility for the acts of those who governed. The populace had no say. It is considered immoral, and is codified internationally as illegal, to punish civilians for acts over which they have no control.
The possession of gigantic military power in addition to the overwhelming weight of atomic weapons put America in a position no other country had ever occupied. It could have done great things. Incinerating cities for no gain was not great.


----------



## gipper (Aug 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> I take exception of trying to make Japan out to be a "Victim" in WWII.
> 
> They weren't. They were one of the most guilty players after Nazi Germany.
> 
> And they haven't shown all that much remorse.  The Germans are STILL apologizing.


True, but the USA likes to think it does not do the heinous things tyrants and dictators do.  We Americans want to believe we are better than to mass murder defenseless people, including women and children.  History clearly shows our ruling class is just as heinous, if not worse.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 7, 2018)

gipper said:


> True, but the USA likes to think it does not do the heinous things tyrants and dictators do. We Americans want to believe we are better than to mass murder defenseless people, including women and children. History clearly shows our ruling class is just as heinous, if not worse.



Okay, buddy... whatever are you going to do now that Alex Jones can't feed you your daily dose of crazy?


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## JoeB131 (Aug 7, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> The subversion of democracy by the military absolves the Japanese people of responsibility for the acts of those who governed. The populace had no say. It is considered immoral, and is codified internationally as illegal, to punish civilians for acts over which they have no control.
> The possession of gigantic military power in addition to the overwhelming weight of atomic weapons put America in a position no other country had ever occupied. It could have done great things. Incinerating cities for no gain was not great.



I don't necessarily buy that.  No government can exist without the tacit support of it's people.  The Japanese like the Germans, had no problem with what their leaders were doing when they were winning the war.  And Japan's aggression and imperialism started long before Tojo and the military seized power in the 1930's.


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## gipper (Aug 7, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> The subversion of democracy by the military absolves the Japanese people of responsibility for the acts of those who governed. The populace had no say. It is considered immoral, and is codified internationally as illegal, to punish civilians for acts over which they have no control.
> The possession of gigantic military power in addition to the overwhelming weight of atomic weapons put America in a position no other country had ever occupied. It could have done great things. Incinerating cities for no gain was not great.


So true, but most Americans can't accept the truth of that.  They want to believe our national leaders are better, when clearly they are not.  

The Japanese people had no say in their government.  Any Japanese person who opposed the government's war policies before and during WWII, was imprisoned or executed.  The people were silenced and as you clearly state, were not responsible for the criminal acts of their leaders.  

Truman knew this, but he still choose to mass murder thousands of innocent men, women, and children.  

Sad.  Very sad.


----------



## gipper (Aug 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > True, but the USA likes to think it does not do the heinous things tyrants and dictators do. We Americans want to believe we are better than to mass murder defenseless people, including women and children. History clearly shows our ruling class is just as heinous, if not worse.
> ...


LMFAO...Alex Jones...you goof.  

After all the times I have explained my views to you, you claim I get info from Alex Jones.  Come on now Joe....you aren't that dumb.


----------



## gipper (Aug 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > The subversion of democracy by the military absolves the Japanese people of responsibility for the acts of those who governed. The populace had no say. It is considered immoral, and is codified internationally as illegal, to punish civilians for acts over which they have no control.
> ...



Do you have any understanding of what it is like to live in a tyrannical society?  Clearly you don't.


----------



## gipper (Aug 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > The subversion of democracy by the military absolves the Japanese people of responsibility for the acts of those who governed. The populace had no say. It is considered immoral, and is codified internationally as illegal, to punish civilians for acts over which they have no control.
> ...


And at any rate Little Joe even if the people had a say, does that warrant the US leadership mass murdering women and children?

Think Little Joe.  THINK!  Don't emote or promote statist propaganda you learned in 3rd grade.  Think!


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

gipper said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > night_son said:
> ...



Not trying to equate.

Did you see that black guy push that older white man on the ground?  Do you approve of the guy shooting the black man who shoved him to the ground?  Oh you do?  That's interesting.  Because the white guys reaction to being shoved on the ground was not EQUATE to what the black guy did.  The black guy pushed him to the ground and the white guy murdered him.  And he got off because of Republican stand your ground laws.  

So don't cry to me about equate.  Fuck the Japs who sneak attacked us and killed American men and women at Pearl Harbor.  I don't give a crap about asian babies and women when their country murders American humans.

They will never get their lives back.  The people who died at Pearl Harbor.  We should have annihilated the entire country of Japan so to make sure they and no one else ever fucking bombed us again.

Oh and guess what?  Except for 9-11, we haven't been attacked again.  Maybe we should have nuked Afganistan.


----------



## there4eyeM (Aug 7, 2018)

Where is a "pathetic" button when we need it?


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve

A small number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. will have an opportunity to join the military for the first time in decades under a new Department of Defense policy unveiled Thursday.

The new rules will expand an existing program allowing recruiters to target foreign nationals with high-demand skills, mostly rare foreign language expertise or specialized health care training.

For the first time, the program — known as Military Accessions in the National Interest, or MAVNI — will be open to immigrants without a proper visa if they came to the U.S. with their parents before age 16. More specifically, they must be approved under a 2012 Obama administration policy known as Deferred Action for Child Arrivals, or DACA.

Is Trump still allowing this?


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

Those targeted by recruiters under the MAVNI program likely will be immigrants with language skills critical to national security, such as Arabic, Chinese, Pashto or Persian.


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

Starting in 2006, the military began accepting some foreigners with nonpermanent visas


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

Since 2001, more than 92,000 foreign-born service members have become citizens while serving in uniform.

Since Bush broke the military by spreading our boys too thin.

Don't blame Obama The MAVNI program began in 2008 and remains a pilot program. 

Another thing Bush did on his way out the door as he burned the place down.

Military to allow undocumented immigrants to serve


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > I saw this movie Harakiri for the first time last month.  I love chambara or Japanese westerns.  This movie was long on my list as recommended by other fans which I never got to.  Wow.  Not an easy film to watch nor forget.
> ...



Have you seen it?  It has nothing to do with WW II, but it explains Japanese feudal mentality, the warrior's code and Japanese suicide.  Why did the Japanese pilots and soldiers, even regular Japanese citizens (in certain situations) commit suicide and consider it honorable?  The only thing comparable in the US is dying trying to rescue someone, i.e. being a good Samaritan.  And that's not really suicide.


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Since 2001, more than 92,000 foreign-born service members have become citizens while serving in uniform.
> 
> Since Bush broke the military by spreading our boys too thin.
> 
> ...



There goes one of my arguments, but I still want the wall built .


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



And you claim I'm off in my own little world.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...




You are. 

Japanese American internment: Manzanar dismantled


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


The LA Times?  You believe fake news?  LOL


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...erving-the-japanese-american-internment-camps


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...erving-the-japanese-american-internment-camps


In 1988, President Reagan signed the Civil Liberties Act to compensate more than 100,000 people of *Japanese *descent who were incarcerated in *internment camps *during World War II. The legislation offered a formal apology and paid out $20,000 in *compensation* to each surviving victim.

Get the fuck over it!  Had we known you'd still be crying we wouldn't have paid you all.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 7, 2018)

For what purpose does the OP have to breed hate of a war already paid in blood??

I would remind the op we are still allies.....

Serves no purpose to open old wounds....Is the op
Trying to wedge relations between our countries and if so for what purpose???????


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## Mr Natural (Aug 7, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> For what purpose does the OP have to breed hate of a war already paid in blood??
> 
> I would remind the op we are still allies.....
> 
> ...




Rematch?


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 7, 2018)

Mr Clean said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > For what purpose does the OP have to breed hate of a war already paid in blood??
> ...


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## Mr Natural (Aug 7, 2018)

It’s hard to imagine the Japanese as once being war mongers.

They seem so civilized.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> For what purpose does the OP have to breed hate of a war already paid in blood??
> 
> I would remind the op we are still allies.....
> 
> ...





What in the wide, wide world of sports are you talking about?


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...erving-the-japanese-american-internment-camps
> ...




As usual you make no sense at all.


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## regent (Aug 7, 2018)

Japan was building the atomic bomb as were we during the war. Thanks to FDR we      won the race, and had the means to deliver it. Would Japan have used the bomb on the US if it meant
Japan would win the war?


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


You got reparations. Just like people who settle a lawsuit with Donald trump you gave up the right to wine about it when you took the $


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



One camp dismantled, but hundreds remain and more can be set up in a moments notice.  Just admit you live in naivete.

List of concentration and internment camps - Wikipedia

It's operated through FEMA.  I usually don't believe in conspiracy theories, but this one isn't that far off from US history.


THE LOCATION OF CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN AMERICA


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare, don't be bakatare ha ha.  We got murder-suicide here and I can explain, i.e. understand, the psychology.  I can explain the psychology of the Muslim suicide bomber terrorist.  Yet, how do you explain suicide being honorable in Japan?  It's been a long tradition and one of the reasons why the military bombed Pearl Harbor.  They thought they could win the war in the Pacific using suicide bombers.  Kamikaze was a war strategy.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...





I did? When, from whom, and why?


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...





This is the History forum. Take your little kiddie nonsense somewhere else.


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## Pogo (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



"According to Alex Jones...."    Nothing like credible sources huh.

Was curious why the video said FEMA was "created in 1976"  while showing a picture of Jimmy Carter, since the POTUS in 1976 was Gerald Ford.  It actually dates from 1979 so some sloppy 'research' here.


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Except I learn from studying US history.  While you keep making mistakes as your history is off as in wacko.


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## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


And besides, the winners write the history. So the story goes they weren’t going to stop unless we dropped two bombs. And dropping those bombs saved American lives.

Even unkotare admits American lives are more valuable and precious than people in other countries. For example he’s ok that trump put South Americans in similar camps and trump went one further. He separated children from parents.

Talk about a hypocrite


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Pogo said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



I'd trust Alex Jones thinking over Pogo's.  FEMA created in 1979 by EO of second worst POTUS off all time Jimmy Carter.  And under Dept of Homeland Security since 2003 which just so happens to deal with _terrorism_.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...




Evidently not.


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Let's stick to the subject as this is history and not politics, so strike President Trump and separation of illegal children from their illegal parents.

And where did I say America lives were more valuable and precious than people in other countries?  Didn't I support remembering the citizens of Nagasaki and Hiroshima on Aug 6?  In times of war, we all become nationalistic, so your argument goes down the tubes.

I doubt most of us were born, let alone being in the US unless you were.  What do others think who were there when the US dropped the bombs?  My initial reaction to any nuclear explosion is one of horror.  Any type of nuke attack on our soil will call for a counter nuclear strike.  That is unimaginable and would not be able to be stopped.  Thus, the best thing is to not start it and take measures to prevent it.

Now, getting to the good stuff, where did I support the idea of dropping a superbomb mean that the enemy will surrender?  I mentioned the shock and awe bombings of Iraq and we knew that it wasn't going to be enough.  One has to put boots on the ground and fight the war with troops.  Isn't this what I mentioned in regards to WW II in Germany, Italy and Japan?  The bombings were not designed to make the enemy surrender unless it destroyed most or all of their country.  I'm sure some of today's WMD are capable of total annihilation.  However, the conventional bombs and nukes weren't designed to do that.

"Following these events, Emperor Hirohito intervened and ordered the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War to accept the terms the Allies had set down in the Potsdam Declaration for ending the war. After several more days of behind-the-scenes negotiations and a failed _coup d'état_, Emperor Hirohito gave a recorded radio address across the Empire on August 15. In the radio address, called the Jewel Voice Broadcast (玉音放送 _Gyokuon-hōsō_), he announced the surrender of Japan to the Allies."

...

"however, isolated soldiers and personnel from Japan's far-flung forces throughout Asia and the Pacific refused to surrender for months and years afterwards, some even refusing into the 1970s."

Surrender of Japan - Wikipedia

Maybe Unkotare's relatives were/are still on some island fighting the war ha ha.  We had Twilight Zone and other shows about it.

ETA:  Again, I recommend people interested in WW II history and war with Japan and the war in the Pacific to watch Harakiri (1962).  It's created and directed by a Japanese director named Masaki Kobayashi of Kwaidan, Human Condition and Ghost Stories fame (still haven't seen the latter two of his movies, but plan to).  This movie is set in the 17th century feudal Japan with samurais in the post-feudal era.  While it has nothing to do with WW II, it explains the thinking that led to WW II and how regular Japanese were forced into military service.  It explains the most "honorable" thinking of the Japanese which the creator/director Kobayashi was against.  Maybe he despised it.  While I do not agree with his pacificism, it's still very interesting to see his views on what happened.


----------



## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...




Maybe Nantucket once in a while, but my working class Irish immigrant ancestors couldn’t afford even that most of the time. 


If you want to talk about History, go study some and steer clear of conspiracy nonsense.


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


My disparaging comments about hypocrisy were directed at unkotare.

I was just making a point. Unkotare is ok what we are doing to South Americans seeking asylum but would not be ok if we did the same thing to American Muslims or Japanese Americans


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## Pogo (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



Of course you would.  Goes with your illiteracy.



james bond said:


> FEMA created in 1979 by EO of second worst POTUS off all time Jimmy Carter.  And under Dept of Homeland Security since 2003 which just so happens to deal with _terrorism_.



Actually revamped rather than "created", out of the already-existing Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) which ultimately grew from the Civil Defense Administration (1950).  The Carter administration retooled it more to address civil defense planning and less to be a secret tree house where the gummint could go hide when the booga-booga Commies came.

Jimmy Carter... Jimmy Carter.... ah yes, the only POTUS since Herbert Hoover who never went to war.  
I know, what a loser, right?

Look dood, I gave your video a quick run-through and found glaring flaws and I said so.  If you can't handle it don't post shoddily-researched videos. 

Nice theme too, "stuff they don't want you to know".  Kevin Trudeau's gonna sue.


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



That's just your ignorant assertion.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > For what purpose does the OP have to breed hate of a war already paid in blood??
> ...


What is your purpose here?  That was 1945 and you want to create Hate here..............
Why?


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## james bond (Aug 7, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



It's part conspiracy because it can't be proven.  However, we know that the Feds will not give the states money through FEMA unless they have places, i.e. camps, to hold terrorists.  They can build fences and barbed wire in a day with the gun towers.  And aren't there still some of the Japanese camps still around?  I thought they placed the illegal children in one of them.  Also, the article said that some of the buildings at Manzanar were relocated.

It's interesting you mention history, but I'm not sure what you learned from it.  Do you not fear nuclear weapons and being attacked on US soil?  I know we have WMDs, so fear greatly using it against another country.  Thus, it's imperative that we do not let the enemy start a war on American soil.  History shows that led to the most egregious counter strikes.  You haven't even explained how Japanese wouldn't surrender and how they became kamikazes.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



Then STFU about it and stick to reality.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

james bond said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...




It’s an informed opinion based on your shallow comments.


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## Unkotare (Aug 7, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...





Why are you in the history forum if discussing history upsets you so?


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## james bond (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Ha ha.  You are one dumb SOB.  According to history...

You:  Concentration camps are a thing of the past because one camp was dismantled.
Me:  Concentration camps are still around and exist all over the US in case a major war breaks out again or an uprising occurs and mass groups of people need to be rounded up and watched.  We had evidence of a concentration camp when children of illegal immigrants were separated from their parents.  We also have Guantanomo Bay still operating.

Let's see if you can answer the following...

Was there mandatory conscription during that time?  What happened to conscientious objectors?  What did the Japanese Americans call these young men and why?

The last one is the toughest, but should be a piece of cake for you.


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## james bond (Aug 8, 2018)

The other stupidity of both Unkotare and Pogo was being against Alex Jones.  Alex Jones may think there are conspiracies everywhere, but he's right about concentration camps.  They are everywhere and he's against them and I am against them, too.  They're illegal and a violation of our Constitution and freedoms.  That's part of history, too, but both are blind, deaf and dumb.  See no evil.  Hear no evil.  Speak no evil.


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## there4eyeM (Aug 8, 2018)

Governments do what they are able to do. In that context, a government is capable of anything. Given time, any government does things most of us would call reprehensible. Power corrupts because humans are weak. They believe too much in things that are ephemeral, base and degrading to the human spirit. So, we have exterminations and other horrors. All we can do is try to instigate people to think and reason clearly. If a sufficient majority is conscious, the vicious minority may be controlled.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 8, 2018)

regent said:


> Japan was building the atomic bomb as were we during the war. Thanks to FDR we won the race, and had the means to deliver it. Would Japan have used the bomb on the US if it meant
> Japan would win the war?



The Japanese did not have a nuclear program. Our program was created because we thought the Germans were developing the bomb. Turns out they weren't.  Since most of the theory was by Jews, Hitler rejected it. 

The reality is, we probably didn't need to use it, the Japanese were already looking for a way to surrender. 

Let's look at the sequence of events. 

We issue our terms for surrender.  The Japanese agree to most of them and want to retain the Emperor. 

We drop the bomb, and the USSR enters the Pacific War, breaking their non-aggression pact with Japan.  As Japan was not really ready for a new front, the Russians pretty quickly start rolling up their forces in Manchuria and Korea. 

Now, here's the thing, the last thing Japan wanted was to be partitioned like Germany. And the US didn't want that either. So suddenly we became all cool with Hirohito (a War Criminal as bad as any other) keeping his job.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 8, 2018)

james bond said:


> The other stupidity of both Unkotare and Pogo was being against Alex Jones. Alex Jones may think there are conspiracies everywhere, but he's right about concentration camps. They are everywhere and he's against them and I am against them, too. They're illegal and a violation of our Constitution and freedoms. That's part of history, too, but both are blind, deaf and dumb. See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil.



the only concentration camps are the ones we are keeping Mexicans in, and Crazy Racist Alex is cool with those.


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## eagle1462010 (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Doesn't upset me.  It appears to upset you, and you refuse to answer the question.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Japan was building the atomic bomb as were we during the war. Thanks to FDR we won the race, and had the means to deliver it. Would Japan have used the bomb on the US if it meant
> ...


Again for the TRULY SLOW and STUPID, the FACTS are that at NO time did the actual Government of Japan offer to surrender, even after 2 atomic bombs it took the intervention of the Emperor to cause them to surrender and then the Army staged a Coup to stop that.


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## sealybobo (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> 1945
> 
> 
> 73 years have passed since the first use of an atomic weapon in war. Most of the 150,000 victims were civilians. Women, children, the elderly. The effects of this new weapon on real people shocked the conscience of the world, and its use at that time is still debated to this day.
> ...


Slaves were freed 1863.  All of them were human beings.  The effects of slavery on black men, women and children are still being felt today.  

Regardless of ones position on slavery, it is fitting to take a moment to remember all the lives that were taken and the horrors of slavery.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

eagle1462010 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...




What question? Why to discuss history? It's the fucking History forum!


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## sealybobo (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Well you got me banned from that other thread so I wanted to get the last word.

This is a history forum.  I'm discussing history.  This thread is about AUGUST 6th.  A lot happened on this date

*Events[edit]*

135 – The Roman Empire lays siege to Betar, effectively ending the Bar Kokhba revolt.
1284 – The Republic of Pisa is defeated in the Battle of Meloria by the Republic of Genoa, thus losing its naval dominance in the Mediterranean.
1506 – The Grand Duchy of Lithuania defeated the Crimean Khanate in the Battle of Kletsk
1538 – Bogotá, Colombia, is founded by Gonzalo Jiménez de Quesada.
1661 – The Treaty of The Hague is signed by Portugal and the Dutch Republic.
1777 – American Revolutionary War: The bloody Battle of Oriskany prevents American relief of the Siege of Fort Stanwix.
1787 – Sixty proof sheets of the Constitution of the United States are delivered to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
1806 – Francis II, the last Holy Roman Emperor, abdicates, ending the Holy Roman Empire.
1819 – Norwich University is founded in Vermont as the first private military school in the United States.
1824 – Peruvian War of Independence: The Battle of Junín.
1825 – Bolivia gains independence from Spain.
1861 – The United Kingdom annexes Lagos, Nigeria.
1862 – American Civil War: The Confederate ironclad CSS _Arkansas_ is scuttled on the Mississippi River after suffering catastrophic engine failure near Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
1870 – Franco-Prussian War: The Battle of Spicheren is fought, resulting in a Prussian victory.
1870 – Franco-Prussian War: The Battle of Wörth results in a decisive Prussian victory.
1890 – At Auburn Prison in New York, murderer William Kemmler becomes the first person to be executed by electric chair.
1901 – Kiowa land in Oklahoma is opened for white settlement, effectively dissolving the contiguous reservation.
1912 – The Bull Moose Party meets at the Chicago Coliseum.
1914 – World War I: First Battle of the Atlantic: Two days after the United Kingdom had declared war on Germany over the German invasion of Belgium, ten German U-boats leave their base in Heligoland to attack Royal Navy warships in the North Sea.
1914 – World War I: Serbia declares war on Germany; Austria declares war on Russia.
1915 – World War I: Battle of Sari Bair: The Allies mount a diversionary attack timed to coincide with a major Allied landing of reinforcements at Suvla Bay.
1917 – World War I: Battle of Mărășești between the Romanian and German armies begins.
1926 – Gertrude Ederle becomes the first woman to swim across the English Channel.
1926 – In New York City, the Warner Bros.' Vitaphone system premieres with the movie _Don Juan_ starring John Barrymore.
1930 – Judge Joseph Force Crater steps into a taxi in New York and disappears, never to be seen again.
1940 – Estonia was illegally annexed by the Soviet Union.
1942 – Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands becomes the first reigning queen to address a joint session of the United States Congress.
1944 – The Warsaw Uprising occurs on August 1. It is brutally suppressed and all able-bodied men in Kraków are detained afterwards to prevent a similar uprising, the Kraków Uprising, that was planned but never carried out.
1945 – World War II: Hiroshima, Japan is devastated when the atomic bomb "Little Boy" is dropped by the United States B-29 _Enola Gay_. Around 70,000 people are killed instantly, and some tens of thousands die in subsequent years from burns and radiation poisoning.
1956 – After going bankrupt in 1955, the American broadcaster DuMont Television Network makes its final broadcast, a boxing match from St. Nicholas Arena in New York in the _Boxing from St. Nicholas Arena_ series.
1960 – Cuban Revolution: Cuba nationalizes American and foreign-owned property in the nation.
1962 – Jamaica becomes independent from the United Kingdom.
1965 – US President Lyndon B. Johnson signs the Voting Rights Act of 1965 into law.
1986 – A low-pressure system that redeveloped off the New South Wales coast dumps a record 328 millimeters (13 inches) of rain in a day on Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
1990 – Gulf War: The United Nations Security Council orders a global trade embargo against Iraq in response to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
1991 – Tim Berners-Lee releases files describing his idea for the World Wide Web. WWW debuts as a publicly available service on the Internet.
1991 – Takako Doi, chair of the Social Democratic Party, becomes Japan's first female speaker of the House of Representatives.
1996 – The Ramones played their farewell concert at The Palace, Los Angeles, CA.
1996 – NASA announces that the ALH 84001 meteorite, thought to originate from Mars, contains evidence of primitive life-forms.
1997 – Korean Air Flight 801 crashed at Nimitz Hill, Guam killing 228 of 254 people on board.
2001 – Erwadi fire incident, 28 mentally ill persons tied to a chain were burnt to death at a faith based institution at Erwadi, Tamil Nadu.
2008 – A military junta led by Mohamed Ould Abdel Aziz stages a coup d'état in Mauritania, overthrowing president Sidi Ould Cheikh Abdallahi.
2010 – Flash floods across a large part of Jammu and Kashmir, India, damages 71 towns and kills at least 255 people.
2011 – War in Afghanistan: A United States military helicopter is shot down, killing 30 American special forces members and a working dog, seven Afghan soldiers, and one Afghan civilian. It was the deadliest single event for the United States in the War in Afghanistan.
2012 – NASA's _Curiosity_ rover lands on the surface of Mars.
2015 – A suicide bomb attack kills at least 15 people at a mosque in the Saudi city of Abha.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > 1945
> ...




No, they were not. Spam more accurately.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> ....  He says by them bringing up the past, they are just dividing us.  .....




I never said that. Can't you communicate at all without being dishonest?


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> .... at NO time did the actual Government of Japan offer to surrender, .......




That is not true, no matter how many times you spam it.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

james bond said:


> [....
> Me:  Concentration camps are still around and exist all over the US in case a major war breaks out again or an uprising occurs and mass groups of people need to be rounded up and watched.  We had evidence of a concentration camp when children of illegal immigrants were separated from their parents.  We also have Guantanomo Bay still operating.
> 
> ......




You might want to take some time and learn what a "concentration camp" is.


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## sealybobo (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ....  He says by them bringing up the past, they are just dividing us.  .....
> ...


What did you say?


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




If you have a question about another thread, go ask on that thread. Stay focused. 

Did you start the thread in the FZ as I instructed you to?


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## sealybobo (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > [....
> ...



It's where white people sent their kids to play board games when Japs were locked up during WW2.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...




So, you're just here to troll today?

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > .... at NO time did the actual Government of Japan offer to surrender, .......
> ...


Be specific and link us to ACTUAL Japanese Government documents that show Japan ever offered to surrender? I can link to ( and have in fact) to ACTUAL Japanese Government documents that show they did NOT offer to surrender after either atomic bomb.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > "...two days prior to Roosevelt's departure for Yalta, the president received a crucial, forty page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from highly placed Jap officials offering surrender terms which were virtually identical to the ones eventually dictated by the Allies to the Japanese in August."
> ...




.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> "...two days prior to Roosevelt's departure for Yalta, the president received a crucial, forty page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from highly placed Jap officials offering surrender terms which were virtually identical to the ones eventually dictated by the Allies to the Japanese in August."
> 
> Chicago Tribune History


.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

"General Dwight Eisenhower voiced his opposition at Potsdam. "The Japanese were already defeated," he told Secretary of War Henry Stimson, "and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." Admiral William Leahy, President Harry Truman's chief of staff, said that the "Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender….The use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan." General Douglas MacArthur said that the Japanese would have gladly surrendered as early as May if the U.S. had told them they could keep the emperor. Similar views were voiced by Admirals Chester Nimitz, Ernest King and William Halsey, and General Henry Arnold."


https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...-truths-about-using-the-atomic-bombs-on-japan


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## sealybobo (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



As you instructed me to?  LOL.  

And no, you cried so now I can't reply to you for 5 days on that other thread.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




Yes. Now STFU and take your meltdown to the FZ so you can stop trolling this forum.


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## sealybobo (Aug 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


It's dead without me.  No one really cares about the Japs in Japan just like you don't care about south Americans from Honduris.


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## Unkotare (Aug 8, 2018)

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...




Are you saying this forum can't survive without you trolling it?


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## flacaltenn (Aug 8, 2018)

*Got seven posts marked for deletion and I quit. Thread needs to close. Gotten way too personal for a serious topic. *


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## regent (Aug 8, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...


As for Japan's attempt to build the A bomb check, Japan had no uranium so the Germans were to supply the uranium. Check  Uboats 234,235.


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## james bond (Aug 9, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > .... at NO time did the actual Government of Japan offer to surrender, .......
> ...



LOL, it's not a *historical* article, but some opinion piece by a schmoe, and you're the one criticizing everyone about other's history.  (Family attack removed)
"The *surrender of Imperial Japan* was announced on August 15 and formally signed on September 2, 1945, bringing the hostilities of World War II to a close. By the end of July 1945, the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) was incapable of conducting major operations and an Allied invasion of Japan was imminent. Together with the British Empire and China, the United States called for the unconditional surrender of the Japanese armed forces in the Potsdam Declaration on July 26, 1945—the alternative being "prompt and utter destruction". While publicly stating their intent to fight on to the bitter end, Japan's leaders (the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, also known as the "Big Six") were privately making entreaties to the still-neutral Soviet Union to mediate peace on terms more favorable to the Japanese. Meanwhile, the Soviets were preparing to attack Japanese forces in Manchuria and Korea (in addition to South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands) in fulfillment of promises they had secretly made to the United States and the United Kingdom at the Tehran and Yalta Conferences.

On August 6, 1945, at 8:15 AM local time, the United States detonated an atomic bomb over the Japanese city of Hiroshima. Sixteen hours later, American President Harry S. Truman called again for Japan's surrender, warning them to "expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth." Late in the evening of August 8, 1945, in accordance with the Yalta agreements, but in violation of the Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan, and soon after midnight on August 9, 1945, the Soviet Union invaded the Imperial Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo. Later in the day, the United States dropped a second atomic bomb, this time on the Japanese city of Nagasaki. Following these events, Emperor Hirohito intervened and ordered the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War to accept the terms the Allies had set down in the Potsdam Declaration for ending the war. After several more days of behind-the-scenes negotiations and a failed _coup d'état_, Emperor Hirohito gave a recorded radio address across the Empire on August 15. In the radio address, called the Jewel Voice Broadcast (玉音放送 _Gyokuon-hōsō_), he announced the surrender of Japan to the Allies.

On August 28, the occupation of Japan led by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers began. The surrender ceremony was held on September 2, aboard the United States Navy battleship USS _Missouri_, at which officials from the Japanese government signed the Japanese Instrument of Surrender, thereby ending the hostilities. Allied civilians and military personnel alike celebrated V-J Day, the end of the war; however, isolated soldiers and personnel from Japan's far-flung forces throughout Asia and the Pacific refused to surrender for months and years afterwards, some even refusing into the 1970s. The role of the atomic bombings in Japan's unconditional surrender, and the ethics of the two attacks, is still debated. The state of war formally ended when the Treaty of San Francisco came into force on April 28, 1952. Four more years passed before Japan and the Soviet Union signed the Soviet–Japanese Joint Declaration of 1956, which formally brought an end to their state of war."

Surrender of Japan - Wikipedia


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## flacaltenn (Aug 9, 2018)

*Since I screwed up and forgot to actually close this    anyone that wants to actually return to the EXACT topic of the OP is welcome to do so. I'm linked to this thread. So don't make me sorry for being such a push-over. LOL. *


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## jon_berzerk (Aug 9, 2018)

Although sad better them then us


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## james bond (Aug 9, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > [....
> ...



Why?  They're places of imprisonment of masses of people without a trial.  I gave you two examples.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 9, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again for the TRULY SLOW and STUPID, the FACTS are that at NO time did the actual Government of Japan offer to surrender, even after 2 atomic bombs it took the intervention of the Emperor to cause them to surrender and then the Army staged a Coup to stop that.



Quite the contrary, the Japanese were looking for a diplomatic solution, and dropping the bombs was unneeded.  What got them to surrender was the USSR entering the war.  Really, the USSR did most of the Heavy Lifting in WWII, we just benefited.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 9, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Again for the TRULY SLOW and STUPID, the FACTS are that at NO time did the actual Government of Japan offer to surrender, even after 2 atomic bombs it took the intervention of the Emperor to cause them to surrender and then the Army staged a Coup to stop that.
> ...


Look I have repeatedly posted the link to SOURCE documents from the Japanese Government that clearly show no one running the Japanese Government offered to surrender even after 2 atomic bombs and even after the emperor surrendered the Army staged a Coup to stop that.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 9, 2018)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Look I have repeatedly posted the link to SOURCE documents from the Japanese Government that clearly show no one running the Japanese Government offered to surrender even after 2 atomic bombs and even after the emperor surrendered the Army staged a Coup to stop that



You can post whatever you want, buddy... but I doubt you read Japanese or know that much about their culture.


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## MatthewsGeorge (Aug 30, 2018)

wow


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## Unkotare (Aug 30, 2018)

MatthewsGeorge said:


> wow




Wow?


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## regent (Sep 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Look I have repeatedly posted the link to SOURCE documents from the Japanese Government that clearly show no one running the Japanese Government offered to surrender even after 2 atomic bombs and even after the emperor surrendered the Army staged a Coup to stop that
> ...



America should never have gotten involved in a war with Japan not knowing their language or culture. Our mistake.


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## Unkotare (Jan 4, 2019)

.


Unkotare said:


> "In my opinion, the Japanese war was really won before we ever used the atom bomb. Thus, it wouldn't have been necessary for us to disclose our nuclear position and stimulate the Russians to develop the same thing much more rapidly than they would have if we had not dropped the bomb."
> 
> 
> *                  - RALPH BARD*
> ...


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## regent (Jan 4, 2019)

If America had a Trump-wall would we have had WWII?


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## sealybobo (Jan 4, 2019)

regent said:


> If America had a Trump-wall would we have had WWII?


So a wall around Pearl Harbor?


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## there4eyeM (Jan 4, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > If America had a Trump-wall would we have had WWII?
> ...


What won WWII was curtains of airplanes and waves of tanks, not walls.


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## sealybobo (Jan 4, 2019)

there4eyeM said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...


Do you know what we did?  We bombed the shit out of the enemy.  Today we refuse to go after the enemy.  Instead we go after the illegals who are only here coming for a better way of life.  We should be going after the illegal employers.  Bombing the shit out of their business' when we find out who they are.  If they stopped hiring illegals would go home.  And those 3rd world countries would be forced to deal with their citizens rather than pass off the poorest ones to us so they can delute the job market.

Today's Immigration Battle Corporatists vs. Racists (and Labor is Left Behind)

Reclaiming the Issues: "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"


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## gipper (Jan 4, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Yeah our wonderful leaders mass murderer thousands of innocent women and children. You think this admirable.


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## sealybobo (Jan 4, 2019)

gipper said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > there4eyeM said:
> ...


What? What I posted went way over your head.


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## sealybobo (Jan 4, 2019)

Does unkotare think he has a reply with posting?


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## gipper (Jan 5, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Okay. Do you believe bombing the shit out of defenseless civilians is acceptable?


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## sealybobo (Jan 5, 2019)

gipper said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


No. Where is this coming from?


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## gipper (Jan 5, 2019)

sealybobo said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Okay then, we are all good. Sorry.


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## regent (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


Many of us assumed the responsibility for Japanese civilians rested with the Japanese, it's people and it's government.  Now we find differently.  Somewhere in the mish-mash America became responsible for Pearl Harbor. If we assume responsibility will Japan forgive us for December Seventh?


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## gipper (Jan 8, 2019)

regent said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


You aren’t informed. The Japanese people had no input in their government’s actions. It was a tyrannical government.  So murdering them, was clearly a war crime. Secondly, murdering defenseless civilians can’t ever be considered proper. America should be better than this, but it isn’t.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


Retard you don't even know history, The Japanese people WILLINGLY followed their Government and were forming civilian armies armed with bamboos to attack the invading Americans.


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## Unkotare (Jan 8, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...






 You are allergic to thought.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 8, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Yet you can not for the life of you find a single source that ACTUALLY lists ANY of the supposed peace offers YOU claim were made.


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## regent (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


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So it was the responsibility of America, not the emperor or his group to decide the war was not going well for the Japanese and Japan should surrender before any civilians are hurt. That's bunk. If they are capable of the deeds they did, they are capable of surrendering--as they did.


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## gipper (Jan 8, 2019)

regent said:


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You are terribly slow or stupidily disingenuous. The American government committed an appalling war crime in it’s prosecution of the war against Japan. There is no excuse you can come up with, that changes this fact. 

Yes, the Japanese were ruthless in their aactions, during the war. America should be better. 

The Japanese were willing to surrender well before August 1945. Had we had honest leaders, thousands of lives would have been saved.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


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Link to a single surrender offer by the Japanese or admit you made it up.


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## gipper (Jan 8, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Your repeated requests merely expose you as being uninformed. Now, will you be man enough to admit you are uninformed and apologize for your many insults?  Admit that I am much smarter than you. I own you.

Read this...and keep in mind that the Japanese government made several other peace overtures through third parties. FDR and Truman clung to their idiotic “unconditional surrender “ terms, resulting in hundreds of thousands dying unnecessarily.

The Folly of War


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## gipper (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


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In the event you aren’t man enough to admit your ignorance. Try this. 

ATOMIC BOMBS: RACE HATRED AND MASS MURDER
On July 18, 1945, exactly 19 days before the first atomic bomb was dropped on Japan, in his own handwritten diary, Harry S. Truman wrote: 

"Discussed Manhattan (it is a success). Decided to tell Stalin about it. Stalin had told P.M. (Churchill) of telegram from Jap emperor asking for peace…" 

This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that Truman knew the Japanese emperor had accepted the terms for unconditional surrender three weeks before the atomic bomb was dropped. The term "Japs" was, of course, a racial slur against the Japanese in the 1940’s as much as it is today.

Race Hatred and Mass Murder - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


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Cant read that but it shows it is a book, with NO actual links to any ACTUAL supposed offers of peace you still have nothing. I repeat link to even a single offer from the Japanese offering peace.... I can actually link to what the Japanese offered you can NOT. My link is official Government documents you have linked to a book with NO actual official standing at all. The only dumb one here is you.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


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The link I gave LISTS for all to see the OFFER the Japanese made. It was an offer for a ceasefire a return to 41 start lines with NO concessions in China and no troops or surrender in Japan.


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## gipper (Jan 8, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


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As I feared, you aren’t man enough.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 8, 2019)

gipper said:


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Your book has no link to actual provable facts. I can link to FACTS, you have supposition and innuendo. I repeat link to an ACTUAL offer of peace from the Japanese. One that can be proven to exist.


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## Unkotare (Jan 8, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Is it time for Wapner?


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 9, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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It is time for you to either link to an actual peace plan that can be verified or admit you are blowing hot air.


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## Unkotare (Jan 9, 2019)

Definitely, definitely good driver....


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 9, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Definitely, definitely good driver....


Ya didnt think so you got nothing I have repeatedly asked for evidence and all you have is unprovable claims in books of fiction.


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## gipper (Jan 9, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


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I am sorry to the harbinger of the truth. You, like most Americans, wants to believe that our government is just and fair minded.  You want to believe in the government’s military actions. You want to believe in all that patriotic military hoorah bull shit. Well may poor deluded friend, it all lies.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 9, 2019)

gipper said:


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And yet not a single piece of evidence to support your claim I can link to facts you have to link to supposition and innuendo.


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## Unkotare (Jan 9, 2019)

Uh-oh, time for Wapner!


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## gipper (Jan 9, 2019)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Ignorance is a terrible problem.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 9, 2019)

gipper said:


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Ya and you keep proving it you can not link to a single source that is verifiable while I can and THEN you actually used the offer the Japanese made to the Soviets to deliver to the US, which is a ceasefire return to 41 start lines no concessions in China and no adverse actions against Japan.


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## regent (Jan 11, 2019)

Why is it so important to some posters that America be blamed for using a new weapon  in a war? History has a number of examples of new war weapons: stone axes, armor, castles with moats and towers, gunpowder, guns, cannons, poison gas and on and on, We are simply in a new age. Too bad our brains have not grown as fast as the new weapons. Most weapons are made to kill one or more people at one kaboom. To make life fair should we allow Japan to drop a couple of nuclear bombs on America?
One blessing is that my wife's husband came home almost intact.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2019)

regent said:


> Why is it so important to some posters that America be blamed for using a new weapon  in a war? History has a number of examples of new war weapons: ...ct.




The herring is red and the man is straw. It is only too obvious why you are always so quickly reduced to childish dishonesty.


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## regent (Jan 11, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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As an historian you are merely bad.


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