# Driverless cars are coming.



## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019

It is inevitable.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 13, 2018)

I'll drive my own car, thanks.


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## BulletProof (Jan 13, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> I'll drive my own car, thanks.



Silly girl, that self-driving GM car is not intended to be anyone's car.  It's for ride-sharing, essentially a taxi with a very limited range.

Anyway, silly girl, I bet if you had only owned self-driving cars and then someone came along with a manual car, you would say "I'm not doing the car's work."  Come on confess, you've already said this about self-checkouts in stores.


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## Anathema (Jan 13, 2018)

No chance in Hell that you will EVER see me in a driverless car. Not under any circumstance.


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## petro (Jan 13, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> I'll drive my own car, thanks.


Same here. As I have posted before, I don't trust the technology. Human programming errors and electronic and mechanical recalls on virtually every brand of vehicle.
I would never trust one on icy winter roads, that require experience and the ability to feel the road by a human driver.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

petro said:


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First of all, a driverless car can react sooner to slippery conditions.  If the wheels start to spin faster than the vehicle speed requires, the car can react instantly.  And without using the brakes.  That would likely happen before the driver is even aware of the lack of traction.

Secondly, there are plenty of people out there who aren't experienced or who simply suck at driving on bad roads.  You may be an expert, but when they slam into you the results is the same.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Anathema said:


> No chance in Hell that you will EVER see me in a driverless car. Not under any circumstance.



Then you should probably plan on staying home in another 15 to 20 years, unless you live in a rural area.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 13, 2018)

BulletProof said:


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I don't "ride-share", ya purulent anal scar.  I don't "do" public transportation.  Why would anyone want to do that?

I also don't do "if" as a replacement of fact, and I love self-checkouts.  It was a bitch trying to communicate with some of the shithole help.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> I'll drive my own car, thanks.



I expect it to be required in another 15 to 20 years in some areas.   Urban areas will be first.   Probably followed by interstates in and around major cities, with all interstates being driverless sometime later.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Yeah, but with the lack of a responsible driver there will be deeper pockets to attack for compensation.


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## BuckToothMoron (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
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> It is inevitable.



They will be a reality, but it will be decades before they are predominate. Uber will buy a fleet, why do you need a driver in a cab?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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A fan of Steven Spielberg, are you?  All this from governments that can't even fix the bridges or patch potholes before August?


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## Anathema (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Then you should probably plan on staying home in another 15 to 20 years, unless you live in a rural area.



I'll likely be dead in 15-20 years. If not, I'll walk, thank you very much.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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No need to be a fan of science fiction.  You simply have to look at the progress made in the last 10 years in the areas involved in a driverless car.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Anathema said:


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Fine by me.


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## Disir (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
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> It is inevitable.



And as long as they recognize the rules of the road we will all get along fine. The rules are as follows: 

I am on the road; therefore, I own it. 

Furthermore, it is imperative that I sit in the driver's seat so that I am there to utilize my mad reflexive right arm save skillz on my 6'3" son. If only to hear him say, "Mom, seriously? Do you really think I am moving?" 

Nonetheless, it means that that the immigration problem has been resolved. It means that there will no longer be a need to drive down wages in other industries as there will be a large amount of people that will need work with truck drivers, bus drivers, and cab drivers out of work.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 13, 2018)

BulletProof said:


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If you have these sorts of hallucinations regularly, you should probably see a qualified medical professional.


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## alang1216 (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
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> It is inevitable.


And desireable.  They are much safer.  There were a small number of documented accidents I saw involving these cars and in every single case it was the driver of the other car at fault.  Usually they were distracted.

Such cars will eventually be mandatory and we won't even be allowed to own our own cars (except in very rural areas maybe).  We're to dangerous and irresponsible behind the wheel


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## Marion Morrison (Jan 13, 2018)

I'm already boycotting them. Not doin' it, no sir!


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Disir said:


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Technological advances always mean a loss of jobs for some.


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## alang1216 (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Technological advances always mean a loss of jobs for some.


But likely better/higher skilled jobs for the few.


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## Disir (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Yes.  There are times when it creates jobs as well. As it were, this isn't one of those times.  So...........make lemonade.


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## Moonglow (Jan 13, 2018)

*Driverless cars are coming.*

Then I can start drinking again...


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Disir said:


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Progress should stop because of the loss of jobs?


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## Disir (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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I didn't say that. I said that the immigration issue has been resolved.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Why would it ever be required?

Did they outlaw manual transmissions?

Did they outlaw manual steering?

That's pure speculation with zero evidence on your part!


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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First it will be certain areas, to relieve parking issues.  Next it will be a safety issue.

33k people died in 2014 in traffic accidents.  The cost of traffic accidents runs into the billions every year.


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## Disir (Jan 13, 2018)

And then we can have remote control race cars fer realz. It would make car races interesting with participation.

AND car insurance companies can get bent.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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OK.  Explain this.  I had this situation the other day.

A cable truck is stopped in front of me on a rural road.  There is no way to see around the truck to see if any traffic is coming from the other direction.  How does the driverless car know how to get around it?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Until we have a good idea how well these driverless cars work and how much they cost, how can you justify any of that?

It is a huge leap of faith.  Will airlines start flying planes with no pilots at all?


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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The Tesla has ultrasonic sensors that can detect objects beyond the car in front of you.   Plus, since some the sensors are placed on the corners, at about the level of the trim, they will be able to see ahead farther than you will be able to see from inside the car.  

And legally, if the cable truck is blocking the lane, a flagger is required.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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It is not so much a leap of faith in technology, but a lack of faith in human drivers.

The overwhelming majority of car accidents can be directly blamed on the driver being under the influence, the driver being distracted, or the driver being exhausted.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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OK.  You are flailing here.  You are making crap up to fit your assertion.  You must have gone to school at Bama.

Ultrasonic sensors that can see around a vehicle and detect if another car is coming?  Tesla?  How many hundred thousand dollars will these cars cost?

The truck was stopped.  How is it going to have a flagger with one man in the truck?  It could be a garbage truck for that matter.  Do these sensors recognize hand signals?  If there is no flagger, will the car issue the truck driver a written citation?

How many airlines now operate aircraft without pilots? I am pretty sure the autopilot technology is far more advanced than the driverless car.  If it is so safe, and we can do it, why don't we?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Every time one of the cars screws up, the insurance company will not be suing another driver, but the automobile manufacturer for whatever defect caused the accident.

*Tesla* 
When the magic wears off Joshua Brown, 40, was killed driving a Tesla Model S on June 30, 2016 when the self-driving car rammed into a 18-wheel truck in Florida. The car, which used a computer vision-based vehicle detection, crashed into the truck trying to drive full speed under the trailer. Brown was reportedly watching a Harry Potter movie at the time of the collision. 

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/56510821.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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If it was only one person and they needed a flagger, they wait until they get a flagger out there.   The tesla can read speed limit signs.  I'm sure it could manage a Stop/Slow paddle.  Which is, by the way, required in all 50 states except in an emergency.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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And the car tried 5 times to notify the driver that the visibility was impaired.  (by glare)   After that the ultrasonic sensors were added.

But if the machine notifies the operator that some thing is wrong, the person should respond.   If the machine notifies the driver, and is ignored 5 times, it is not the fault of the machine.


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## IsaacNewton (Jan 13, 2018)

Too many variables with driving. This whole no driver car movement will run into growing fatal crashes and the whole thing will be stopped for another 20 years. Software cannot be written yet that even comes close to the reaction a human brain can muster. Tens of thousands of people die on the roads now with humans who's brains can take into account a myriad of variables that cannot be duplicated by a computer or sensor. Cars are going to fast within just feet of each other. Aircraft already mostly run without a pilot, on autopilot using GPS. But 99% of the time they require a pilot to land and take off. And there is huge separatioin between aircraft to be sure they don't collide.


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## OnePercenter (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
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> It is inevitable.



Truck driver at fault in Las Vegas driverless shuttle crash, say police

The autonomous vehicle didn't sound a horn, back-up, or move around the backing truck which is what you or I would have done. Until artificial intelligence is accomplished, autonomous vehicles won't be possible. Period.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

OnePercenter said:


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The truck backed into a stationary vehicle.   That has nothing to do with anything except the incompetence of the truck driver.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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You are being funny, correct? In a world where each vehicle has a transmitter, the computer knows where every vehicle is, therefore, it does not matter what you see, it knows the position of all the vehicles on the road, and drives your car around the cable car when it is safe to do so.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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We know there cost already, Tesla has them right now. And, yes, such computers and computing power will make individual air transport possible.
Lilium


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## OnePercenter (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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It has to do with the shuttle not doing what you would have done to avoid the accident; Honking your horn, backing up, driving around the truck.


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## OnePercenter (Jan 13, 2018)

Old Rocks said:


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I own two Teslas with the latest driver assist technology. While it is a great tool for drivers, it is far from as good as a person driving. 

For instance, if lane markings are new it will hold a lane. If the lane markings are old or covered by dirt the warning light will show for the driver to take over. Also construction zones where the lane marking have been moved, the car tends to follow the old markings if they weren't removed totally. 

The emergency braking tends to brake too early.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

OnePercenter said:


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Emergency braking goes too early?    Hmmm, and so many of the naysayers were worried about the car not braking.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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The Tesla has many of the technological equipment that will make driverless cars possible.   I would imagine Tesla tech will be in most of them.

And, I said it would happen in the next 15 to 20 years.   Tesla Motors was founded just 15 years ago.  The advances in the next 15 years will make it possible.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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I already gave you a link to a Tesla that didn't brake at all because it couldn't "see" the semi traveling directly in front of it!

You simply cannot make anything idiotproof, because Mother Nature will always be able to find a bigger idiot!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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I am very curious.  How well does it hold the lane when those lane markers are covered by 4-5 inches of snow like we had this morning?


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## TomParks (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Except for coastal liberals these will be a huge flop like new coke and crystal pepsi.....the majority of Americans are not giving up their trucks for a car equipped with a salad spinner on the roof


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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We already have plenty of idiots behind the wheel.

Little anecdotal bit to show why I have little faith in human drivers.

For 12 years I was the Director of Safety for a major utility contractor working all over the eastern US.   

I was doing some basic safety training at a number of jobs.  One of the classes was held during each job's weekly safety meeting.   I asked each group of employees and subcontractors to raise their hand if they were a good driver.   I probably asked this question of 2,000 workers.   2 men raised their hands in all of those safety meetings.   Both of them were serious bikers.  They could handle a Harley, but weren't as good driving cars or trucks.

I then asked the same groups to raise their hand if they had never been in a car accident that totaled the vehicle, seriously injured someone, or caused someone's death.   Out of all those groups, with ages varying from 19 or 20 up to 65 or so, only 3 people raised their hand.   All those hundreds of "good drivers", but they had all been in a serious accident.



Will the driverless cars be foolproof and a guarantee of no accidents?   No.   Will they be far safer than the potluck disastor we have now?  You betcha.


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## TomParks (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Every year on I-80 we have pileup wrecks.....lets see how they deal with foggy and whiteout snow squall conditions


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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And I told you that the driver ignored 5 warnings that there was a problem.   Driverless cars will, no doubt, be programmed to pull over if something like this happens.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

TomParks said:


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Salad spinner?  WTH?


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## boedicca (Jan 13, 2018)

There are two major reasons why self-driving cars are not a good idea for regular people (the very rich who would profit from government support of the program are excluded from this analysis as they won't be put at risk).

1.  Self-driving cars must be programmed for making life-saving decisions.  The likelihood is that the programming will end up sacrificing the passengers for the "greater good".

2.  Filth.   If Uber moves to self-driving cars they will end up being the mobile equivalent of filthy city sidewalks filled wth homeless encampments.  Every disgusting form of bodily secretion will turn said cars into toxic waste dumps.  Unless, of course, they are cleaned after every trip - but that would defeat the purpose of eliminating human labor or a big investment in cleaning robot facilities will be required.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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There are ultrasonic sensors on the Tesla that see through rain, fog and snow.  The computer will have better "vision" than a human driver.

And, since you bring up the pileup wrecks, someone said they don't want a computer driving because they want to be in control on icy roads.  Funny, humans seem to have problems with that often enough.


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## anotherlife (Jan 13, 2018)

Car makers oppose driverless cars, because people will buy much fewer of them, when the car can drive the husband to work, then turn around by itself and drive the children to school, then the wife shopping.  So for every 2 current cars, there will be only one driverless car in the future.  Reduced sales, bad for business.


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## Darkwind (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Actually, the overwhelming number of accidents can be attributed to the fact that 99% of the people on this planet simply can't drive.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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So if you have no way to control the car at all, what good will warning the occupant do?  Give them time to kiss their ass goodbye?


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## Desperado (Jan 13, 2018)

I think the programming of the carcan handle icy roas with the problems, it is the morality programming that I have doubts about
A self-driving car carrying a family of four on a rural two-lane highway spots a bouncing ball ahead. As the vehicle approaches a child runs out to retrieve the ball. Should the car risk its passengers’ lives by swerving to the side—where the edge of the road meets a steep cliff? Or should the car continue on its path, ensuring its passengers’ safety at the child’s expense? This scenario and many others pose moral and ethical dilemmas that carmakers, car buyers and regulators must address before vehicles should be given full autonomy, according to a study published Thursday in_Science_.

Driverless Cars Will Face Moral Dilemmas


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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By comparison, I have been driving for 40 years.  I have never had a moving violation, only a few fender benders, no serious accidents, and no injuries.   That car better be damn near perfect before I trust my ass to it!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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I want to see how ultrasonic works through a semi!

High frequency sound waves do not bend around an object.  They reflect backwards, making it blind at any further distance, so I think your data is in error as to its capabilities.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

Desperado said:


> I think the programming of the carcan handle icy roas with the problems, it is the morality programming that I have doubts about
> A self-driving car carrying a family of four on a rural two-lane highway spots a bouncing ball ahead. As the vehicle approaches a child runs out to retrieve the ball. Should the car risk its passengers’ lives by swerving to the side—where the edge of the road meets a steep cliff? Or should the car continue on its path, ensuring its passengers’ safety at the child’s expense? This scenario and many others pose moral and ethical dilemmas that carmakers, car buyers and regulators must address before vehicles should be given full autonomy, according to a study published Thursday in_Science_.
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> Driverless Cars Will Face Moral Dilemmas



I am not worried about the software.  I am worried about the sensors being able to determine where the middle and sides of the road are located.  I can't tell that in snow.  How will it do that on a country road that hasn't been plowed?


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## Desperado (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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You have a valid point.  I was thinking more of an icy road situation


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

Desperado said:


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Right now I have no idea where my driveway is except generally between my mailbox and a retaining wall on the other side.  I'd love to see a car figure that out.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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My post was only 2 sentences and you couldn't read them both?    Sounds like you are an auburn grad.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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The GPS can tell where the car is, within 3 meters.   So unless you are driving on a snow covered road at the edge of a cliff, it can tell where it is.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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I read it.  Your post was as nonsensical as anything else you posted.  Why wan't that car already programmed to do just that?

Oops!  Another failure to make the car idiot proof?


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## Desperado (Jan 13, 2018)

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You do realize that 3 meters is equal to 9.84252 feet?  That is not an exact location when talking about keeping a car in a lane.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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So I can be 10 feet over a cliff before it knows where the car is supposed to be?  In my state, that would be the rule rather than the exception.  

Even if I was not near a cliff, the edges of the roadway drop off into drainage ditches that will flip a car in a heartbeat.  

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your excuses are sounding?

I am just a rank amateur on this topic and I am blowing your ass away!  I am starting to lose what little respect I had for Bama grads!


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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Because it was not designed to be a driverless car.  It relies on the driver to respond.   The driver did not respond.  Not the car's fault.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Desperado said:


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And do you have X-ray vision to see the lane lines when they are covered by snow?


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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If the lane lines are completely covered, how do you stay in the lane?

I have no claim to be an expert and never have.   But numerous experts in the field have said that they think there will be areas that are only open to driverless cars in 15 to 20 years.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

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Would you drive your car on a road covered with snow and ice just 10 feet from a cliff?    And does the roadside cliff not have a guard rail?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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At least I know what to look for to give me a hint. I can make a best guess. I can also drive in the middle of the raid until I need to move over.  

Computers suck at guessing in case you didn't know.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 13, 2018)

Ice and Snow Thickness RADAR System

I suspect that there are many systems to overcome the snow covered road problem.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Or the driverless vehicle can simply not drive on a snow covered road that is bordered by an unguarded cliff.


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## Shrimpbox (Jan 13, 2018)

Gm also released the Volt.


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## BulletProof (Jan 13, 2018)

I have no doubt driverless cars will handle snow and ice much better than most people.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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If I needed to get my family to the hospital, maybe yes.

If you think I would climb in a vehicle that I could not control in case of a system failure, also hell no!

As I said, you cannot idiot-proof a car.  Somewhere out there is a bigger idiot than what they planned for!

If they make the cars so that I can control them in case of emergency and we have millions of passenger miles without any fatalities due to system errors, then maybe I will relax a little.

Are you familiar with all of the ship collisions the Navy had in the Pacific last year?  One of the major causes listed was being overly reliant on technology.  Just a little human intervention could have saved many sailor's lives and ruined careers.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

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I'm sorry!  Who died and put those people in charge?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

Shrimpbox said:


> Gm also released the Volt.



There is one of those in my neighborhood!  God forbid you ever get behind one of those pieces of shit!  I have never seen one that can maintain highway speed!  You can time their acceleration from 0-60 with a sundial, not that it ever could possibly reach 60 mph.  On a 55 mph speed limit, I think about 47 mph is about the best I have seen them do.

If one ever got out on the interstate, I bet that some truck driver would be picking the pieces out of his grill at the next truck stop and washing the blood off with a hose.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...





Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Well, in 15 to 20 years there may well be places you can't drive.   And another 20 or so after that, you may only be able to drive on private property or if you have special exemptions.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Shrimpbox said:
> 
> 
> > Gm also released the Volt.
> ...



That is what you get with cheap.   The Tesla can do 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds with top speeds of 150+ mph.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Where does it say anything about being in charge?   They are making predictions.  Based on advances in automotive technology.

You really have control issues, don't you?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > WinterBorn said:
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I am so glad that you think we have only 15 to 20 years of being a republic.  We do elect representatives who vote on these decisions, don't we?

You act like the great Obamessiah will come back to rule over us as a dictator for life!

Personally, I am still waiting for my flying car I was promised as a kid.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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It's called "freedom".  Maybe they didn't teach that in Tuscaloosa.

Like I said in my last post, when I was a kid they predicted we would all have flying cars like in _*The Jetsons*_. How's that working out for you?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> > Shrimpbox said:
> ...



Yep!  It's a good thing I am already working on my second millions so I can afford one!

I gave up on my first million years ago!


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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So you think driverless cars will be the end of the republic?   I think we are a little tougher than that.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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You are one saying that there will be places where we are no longer allowed to drive?  Not my circus! Not my monkeys!


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Yes, you have freedom.   You can drive ANY kind of car you want on your property.  

But to drive on public roads you have to have a drivers license, your car must be registered, your car must have a tag that must be lit at night and unobstructed, you must have proof of insurance, and the gov't can stop you at any time to check any of these.   The gov't decides how fast you can go.  And if you are caught going faster, it can take money from you.   And the police close down entire sections of public roads if certain people will be traveling on them that day. 

Yes, I know about freedom.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
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If you were in Atlanta last monday, for several hours no one except the presidential motorcade was allowed to drive on certain roads.  There are miles and miles of specific lanes that you cannot use if you are alone in the vehicle.  

These are not private roads, but public ones.   Determining that only vehicles meeting certain criteria can use them is not unheard of at all.


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## TroglocratsRdumb (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> 
> It is inevitable.



After they drive over cliffs, run into buildings and run over crowds of people the insurance will be too high for anyone to own one


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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And the more economical versions are coming.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> ...



That hasn't happened when people drove over cliffs, drove into buildings or run into crowds of people.   But human drivers have caused the deaths of tens of thousands of people.    More than 10x the number of people killed in the 9/11 attack, and that is every years.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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All of those laws were passed by our elected leaders.  You talk as though it is a fait accompli.  That's not freedom.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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Yeah, that's why a Ford F-150 that is 2-3 years old now sells above $30,000.  Those economical versions are right around the corner, but the driverless car can't see it and will run right smack dab into it because I can't make it stop!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > WinterBorn said:
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You are definitely an Alabama grad.  With reading and reasoning skills like that, you wouldn't have lasted a semester at Auburn!

Why are you being so Mr. MOTO?  

The HOV lanes in Atlanta are a joke and have been since they were built.  The last time I went through Atlanta, it was 2 in the afternoon and it still took 2 hours IN the HOV lanes, which were bumper to bumper all through the city.  The regular lanes sometimes moved faster!


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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Look at some of the laws passed in the last 25 years.   Do you think your grandfather would have expected to be caught on cameras and get traffic tickets thru the mail?  Do you think your grandfather would have expected to be told he can't have a vegetable garden?  Or collect rainwater?  Driverless vehicles, at least, will make the roads safer and traffic less of a problem.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
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The school rivalry is amusing.  But has no bearing.   My reasoning is fine.  You asked about places you are not allowed to drive.  I gave a logical answer.

And the traffic delays would be lessened by driverless cars.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
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If the driverless vehicle's cameras and sensors don't work, the car will not move.   Someone else posted that they have 2 Teslas.  His complaint is that the emergency braking happens too soon.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> 
> It is inevitable.


Here comes the train crossing.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > WinterBorn said:
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Oh good. The car won't move in the middle of a 70mph freeway.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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Oh good, now you can explain how all the sensors and cameras suddenly failed at the same time on the 70mph freeway?


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
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> > WinterBorn said:
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The inputs all go to the same circuit board, Einstein.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 13, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
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> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



All the traffic lights in large areas are computerized, Einstein.  
All the air traffic control radar is computerized, Einstein.

If the circuit board on the car goes out, there will, no doubt be a backup for emergencies.

And if a car stops now on a 70 mph freeway, you better have left space in front of you or you better be aware of where you will swerve.  All the time.  
If a truck blows a tire, you better be able to react and not be texting, under the influence, be tuning your radio, plugging in a new address in your GPS or trying to unwrap a hamburger.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > WinterBorn said:
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Yeah, how well did those traffic cams work out?  I don't know a single place that still has them.

We have a new bridge up north across the Ohio with cameras that mail your toll bill to you if you don't have a transponder.  So far, my daughter has driven across the bridge 6 times and never received a toll bill.  Many people with the transponders drive the bridge daily since it opened and have never paid a dime in tolls.  How long do you think we can afford that system if it doesn't collect the correct number of tolls?

As to the vegetable garden and the rainwater, I am the grandfather and they don't do that here because we are not libtards!


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## strollingbones (Jan 14, 2018)

whats wrong with gardens and rainwater?


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

strollingbones said:


> whats wrong with gardens and rainwater?



Someplaces have made it illegal to collect rainwater.  (Oregon?  I think)

And other places have made gardening difficult or put rules against it all over.


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## strollingbones (Jan 14, 2018)

and all that is brought to by the gop and its support of big farms....amf for one...but blame the liberals


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## Old Rocks (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


It is here. But you cannot have a hundred thousand of these flying around with just human control. It would be raining carbon fiber. This is where there will have to be computer control.







Lilium


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## Old Rocks (Jan 14, 2018)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> ...


People controlled autos do all of that at present with great abandon. And we still have auto insurance.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > whats wrong with gardens and rainwater?
> ...


Usually the gardening rules are put in by home owner associations. The rainwater rule has been modified so that you can collect rainwater off of your roof. What that involved was the original water rights rules, put in by your great-great- grandfathers, that stated that the first person to use the water on a water shed had first rights to that water. So the rain that falls on your land and runs off, belongs to someone downstream. You cannot do anything to impede that runoff, it is not yours. Impound that water, or do anything to change it's flow or degrade it, and you have broken the law, and face a lawsuit from those that own that water.


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## TroglocratsRdumb (Jan 14, 2018)

Old Rocks said:


> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



People will be wishing that the car had a steering when it goes out of control.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 14, 2018)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > TroglocratsRdumb said:
> ...


You mean like these people controlled vehicles?


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## TroglocratsRdumb (Jan 14, 2018)

*Some times GPS is wrong and the Driver does the smart thing and doesn't follow it's directions. Computers just can't make the same judgment calls that Humans can.*


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## petro (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > I think the programming of the carcan handle icy roas with the problems, it is the morality programming that I have doubts about
> ...


Soon after snow and ice my sensors on my jeep are covered and rendered useless forcing me to shut of reverse assist until I physically clean sensors.


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## Desperado (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > whats wrong with gardens and rainwater?
> ...


Nine states have laws restricting collection of rainwater, Oregon and Colorado to name two and they are not exactly havens for the GOP. The flack about the gardens was a HOA rule about not having your garden in the front yard and the rule was upheld by a local court.
Is collecting rainwater legal in your state?


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Your lack of engineering knowledge and Leftardism is why you are so gullible. 

Bay Area Air Traffic Disrupted / Flights grounded after radar broke down

Indian Air Traffic Control Radar Goes Down


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

Driverless cars will be like demolition derby


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## Old Rocks (Jan 14, 2018)

Desperado said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...


LOL Yes, nine. And four of them are Idaho, Ohio, Texas, and Utah.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Driverless cars will be like demolition derby
> View attachment 171510 View attachment 171511



The cameras and ultrasonic sensors will see the train and the deer.   They will react accordingly.

Plus, the car will never be under the influence of drugs or alcohol.  The car will never be distracted.  And the car will never be falling asleep.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
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And in the real world...a truck blocking a lane with no flagger is nothing unusual!  Trash, snow removal, utility work, firemen clearing hydrants, DPW shoveling out storm drains-I saw one yesterday, a tanker delivering oil.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...


How big a clusterfuck would be caused, I wonder, by  a cardboard box or big trash bag blowing across the road 15' in front of a self-driving car going 60MPH in moderate to heavy traffic?


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
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I was in a wreck that totalled the vehicle.  Someone passing me on the highway made an illegal lane change in heavy rain, putting his green SUV directly into my quarter panel, sending my Cadillac spinning across 3 lanes and into a guardrail. (He then took off.) My wife was in a head-on crash that totalled a Hummer H2 and an F-550 rollback, put her in the hospital, and I think it killed the other driver.  The other driver was passing on a double-yellow in a snowstorm, going at least 50 in a 35MPH zone.  Describe in detail how my or my wife's driving skills could have prevented either wreck.  Be specific.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Desperado said:
> ...


Or in a tunnel...or on the bottom deck of a highway or bridge...or in a city full of tall buildings.

Where I used to live, an error of 3 metres would mean it missed the driveway and wound up in a ditch!


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Shrimpbox said:
> 
> 
> > Gm also released the Volt.
> ...


Bullshit.  The Volt tops out at 100MPH.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
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So...basically, one teenage vandal with a rattle-can could disable hundreds of cars in a couple hours, and cause chaos (and probably a million or so dollars worth of damage).


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## Old Rocks (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


I guess you completely missed the point. Had those vehicles been computer controlled with the computers of tomorrow, they would not have created either accident. Had they had the systems in use today, the computer would have warned the driver that they were going to fast for conditions. And the driver would have ignored that warning.


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## Old Rocks (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


And people like you thought of a million reasons why the auto would never replace the horse. But there are still horses around for riding. Just don't take them out on the Interstate. LOL


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

Reread what I quoted, for comprehension this time.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Yep.   And a driverless car would probably be programmed to wait.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



If this was aimed at me, I don't think I said anything about all accidents being avoidable by all the people involved.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Driverless cars will be like demolition derby
> ...


You are one gullable guy, even for a leftist.  It will never see all train tracks, the train, deer, nor any child standing on the corner about to walk out without looking.  Within 6 months people will have figured out how to hack into the car driving next to them.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...


Exactly. Or a child standing on the curb. No way it can tell if the child is not looking and about to step out.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Why will it not see all the trains or deer?   Multiple cameras and ultrasonic sensors will detect both.   The child on the curb?  It will detect it and slow accordingly.

As for hacking, who says it will be hacked?    And if it does get hacked, the most they will likely be able to do is shut it down.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



The car will detect the child and slow accordingly.


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## Shrimpbox (Jan 14, 2018)

Real life scenario. You are on an entrance ramp in a traffic jam and the polite driver to your left motions for you to go ahead and pull in. What does the driverless car do?

Or what if a degenerate throws a dog or cat in front of an auto car and the car slams on the brakes causing an accident or worse allowing goons to attack the car. What about black ice. What about fog. What about a hacker or terrorist taking the car over. What about a policeman waving it over the shoulder and onto the grass to keep traffic moving. I could go on all day.

In a city with minimal speed limits and no other regular cars maybe. But then you are going to charge me road taxes and not let me drive on the road, I don’t think so.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 14, 2018)

Shrimpbox said:


> Real life scenario. You are on an entrance ramp in a traffic jam and the polite driver to your left motions for you to go ahead and pull in. What does the driverless car do?



It sits on the on-ramp until another car plows into it from behind or until a hole in traffic opens for it to merge.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Shrimpbox said:


> Real life scenario. You are on an entrance ramp in a traffic jam and the polite driver to your left motions for you to go ahead and pull in. What does the driverless car do?
> 
> Or what if a degenerate throws a dog or cat in front of an auto car and the car slams on the brakes causing an accident or worse allowing goons to attack the car. What about black ice. What about fog. What about a hacker or terrorist taking the car over. What about a policeman waving it over the shoulder and onto the grass to keep traffic moving. I could go on all day.
> 
> In a city with minimal speed limits and no other regular cars maybe. But then you are going to charge me road taxes and not let me drive on the road, I don’t think so.



The polite driver is in a driverless car too, so it doesn't happen.
If someone throws a dog or cat in front of your auto car, the car stops.  If the people behind you hit you they were following too close.
Black ice and fog will be handled by the ultrasonic sensors better than by human eyes.
The terrorists will be reported to the police and the auto car's auto defense system burns them down with lasers.
The policeman waving you to the shoulder is actually the terrorist's partner, so the auto car burns him down too.

Most states have road taxes added to the price of gasoline.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Shrimpbox said:
> 
> 
> > Real life scenario. You are on an entrance ramp in a traffic jam and the polite driver to your left motions for you to go ahead and pull in. What does the driverless car do?
> ...



Waits for the space to open up?  That will work.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Tell us, where does the technology exist that can discern a standing deer in brush and an unmarked railroad crossing with a stationary child standing by the road and tell the child is waiting for you to pass or is looking the other way as he prepares to step into the street in half a second?

You're delusional.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...


Oh great. Everytime it thinks it sees a person or animal it slows to 20mph.

Your 30 minute commute just became 4 hours.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Shrimpbox said:
> 
> 
> > Real life scenario. You are on an entrance ramp in a traffic jam and the polite driver to your left motions for you to go ahead and pull in. What does the driverless car do?
> ...


So suddenly everyone instantaneously has a stupid car!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Shrimpbox said:
> 
> 
> > Real life scenario. You are on an entrance ramp in a traffic jam and the polite driver to your left motions for you to go ahead and pull in. What does the driverless car do?
> ...



You seem to have a lot of faith in unproven and incredibly expensive technology.  Have you ever walked into a store with automatic doors and slam right into the glass when they don't work like you expected them to?  I see a lot on needless death and destruction caused by these vehicles before all of the kinks are worked out.  You simply dismiss them out of hand.

Are we simply going to pass a law saying cars cannot have steering wheels, and if you do have one you cannot drive it?  That's almost the dumbest thing I have ever heard!  

It too a long time before I ever owned a car with seatbelt chimes, much less airbags anti-lock brakes, and other technologies, simply because they made cars too damn expensive for me to afford.

Trying to do what you want  will devastate the economy.  

I guess now I see why you went to Bama.  They must have lower standards than I could possibly imagine.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Unmarked railroad crossing?   Where?

A deer in the brush?  Good chance you won't see it either.

A child standing absolutely motionless?  Not likely, but ok.  If cameras can recognize facial features, they can certainly recognize the shape of a person, even a child.

Also, have I said anywhere in these threads that the technology is here and perfect?   Or have I said that experts predict driverless cars will be here in 15 to 20 years?   I have been playing 20 questions for 14 pages.   You have Google.  Look the shit up.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Lefty never leaves the city.
You're delusional.  You can't name the technology because nothing remotely close even exists.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Unmarked railroad crossing?   Where?
> 
> A deer in the brush?  Good chance you won't see it either.
> 
> ...



Unsignaled grade crossings are nothing unusual in rural areas.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Unmarked railroad crossing?   Where?
> ...


He obviously never leaves the ghetto.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Shrimpbox said:
> ...



I have reported what experts are saying.  I provided a link to the article.  And I have been answering questions about scenarios for 14 pages.  You have Google.

I am saying that I believe there will be enough technological advances to make driverless cars preferable in many areas and situations.  I have said nothing about the vehicles not having steering wheels.  But, I guess being an auburn grad you don't mind making shit up, huh?  Like the rings y'all had made for the players who didn't win the championship?

As for the death and destruction, we already have that.   And it is not getting better.   
from:
"Fatalities rose 6 percent in 2016, reaching an estimated 40,200 deaths compared to 37,757 deaths the previous year, according the National Safety Council. The group gets its data from states. The last time there were more than 40,000 fatalities in a single year was in 2007, just before the economy tanked. There were 41,000 deaths that year."

40k people dead?  4.4 million people injured?  $871 billion in economic loss and societal harm?  The needless death and destruction is in full swing right now.   Asking me about specific, isolated scenarios does not change that.



(New NHTSA Study Shows Motor Vehicle Crashes Have $871 Billion Economic and Societal Impact on U.S. Citizens)


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Unmarked railroad crossing?   Where?
> ...



Unsignaled?  Yes.   Unmarked?  Really?    Are there railroads crossing public roads and highways with no signage at all showing that it is a railroad crossing?


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I don't live in a ghetto.  Never have.  But I have lived in quite a few rural areas.

I have probably logged more miles on roads than you have.   I have seen plenty of railroad crossing that had no signals.  But they WERE marked by stationary signs.  Are you saying where you live has railroad crossing with no signs at all?


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Yes...I have seen some with only a painted "RxR" on the pavement, often badly faded and worn.  Others have a single sign-sometimes the round yellow one (often old, faded, and sometimes vandalized), but sometimes the old "RAIL ROAD CROSSING" sign made of two crossed 2x4s on a post.  I saw one in rural Pennsylvania last year, it was worn, illegible, and probably dated to Reagan's first term.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...


Bluntly: you are in the wrong part of the country.  The place for lots of old grade crossings is the northeast.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



The cars will recognize the signs or read the words on the road.    But also, seeing a freight train coming is not that difficult a trick.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Weatherman2020 said:
> ...



Oh, so there are a lot of crossings with no signs at all in the northeast?  Then they will need to fix those.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
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All cities are ghettos.
I'm still waiting for you to name this fantasy technology.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> WinterBorn said:
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So what you are saying is that there are a few crossings that are badly in need to new signage?   Good time to get it done.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Jarlaxle said:
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And ban all animals and people from the outdoors


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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The signs facing the direction of the camera would be behind the car in this pic.   But I do see signs facing the other way in this pics.   Perhaps if the driver stopped sooner it would prove something.  This pic does not.


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## HaShev (Jan 14, 2018)

I'm working on inventing a lawyerless bot to sue the driverless cars.  ;-)

Actually in all seriousness, the manufacturers will be sued left and right by victims and owners.
Easy money is in shorting the manufacturers of these moving coffins.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Automatic doors can't even open on time.
You're delusional.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Are you really this daft?   The cars will have sensors and cameras.   The Tesla (not designed as a driverless car) has 8 cameras providing 360 degree coverage, plus 12 ultrasonic sensors that can detect both hard and soft objects, and a forward-facing radar.    The car is able to "see" all around at all times.   Now, if a deer runs out in front of the driverless car from the bushes, it may get hit.   Just like they get hit now.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Right, because an automatic door, with two sensors, is the same as a driverless car.   Suuuure.  I'm the delusional one.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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How many sensors in your car?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jan 14, 2018)

The only way I would own a driverless vehicle is if it was a secondary car and I traveled a lot.
   The idea of sleeping on long road trips is compelling but I'm not sure I could actually sleep.
  I cant sleep when the wife drives so I'm not sure I could trust a vehicle.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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All cities are ghettos?   lol    Okey dokey.   I'll have to remember that as I am walking in my neighborhood.   

And, as I said, I have lived in several rural areas.   Look up Delta Alabama.   Yeah, that is an urban ghetto, for sure.   Now find County Rd 3.  Don't look on a Rand McNally map.  It isn't there.  But I lived there for 8 years.  

Also, if you had actually bothered to READ, you would have seen that I have said (several times) that the driverless cars will be mandatory in specific urban areas and some interstates in 15 to 20 years.   I even specifically said that rural areas would not be included for another 20 years.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Just me.   And almost every car you drive will have blindspots.  And please don't tell me you think every driver out there has his total attention on the road, the surroundings and on driving all the time.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> The only way I would own a driverless vehicle is if it was a secondary car and I traveled a lot.
> The idea of sleeping on long road trips is compelling but I'm not sure I could actually sleep.
> I cant sleep when the wife drives so I'm not sure I could trust a vehicle.



I'd like one for urban areas where close parking is almost nonexistent.  Or for rush hour traffic in Atlanta.   In fact, in rush hour traffic, having all driverless cars would speed things up considerably.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Do tell me the computer that matches human thought and reason.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
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> > The only way I would own a driverless vehicle is if it was a secondary car and I traveled a lot.
> ...



  I'm retired so I dont have to drive in traffic.
The idea that I could kick back and make a 2k journey without stopping other than for gas sounds pretty cool.


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## Jarlaxle (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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At a guess: an abandoned spur.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Sorry!  The technology required to make this work is complicated, expensive, and like any computer system prone to to glitches.  I doubt there will be 5% of these cars on the road in 25 years.  Why?  They will cost $200,000 or more and will kill an inordinate amount of people before they work.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 14, 2018)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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 I drive 1000 miles to Texas in a single day without doing anything except stopping for gas and to use the facilities.  What's the appeal, except taking a nap while trusting your life to a bunch of circuit boards and sensors?


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)




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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Are we teaching these cars to read also? What happens when they are covered in snow like they were here with 40 mph winds?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Just who the fuck do you think is going to mandate those specific urban areas?

You are simply delusional on this topic!

I still want my flying car and I want  it now!


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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   The appeal is taking a road trip without having to pay attention.
The last trip I took I went 1700 miles without stopping and I was a wreck at the end.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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In some ways it does not and in some ways it is superior.

For example, the human brain will process seeing a truck across a road in front of him slightly faster than the computer will (if the human is not distracted).   But the command to brake will come from the computer at almost the speed of light.  Whereas the human lifting his foot off the gas, moving it over 6 or 8 inches, and then pushing it down will be much slower.  So the application of the brakes will happen faster via computer than by a human.

And with numerous cameras, ultrasonic sensors, and radar, the driverless car is looking in all directions at the same time.  Humans have to turn their heads slightly to check side mirrors.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I agree.   Especially when I have been driving and start to get tired.  Being able to pop on Auto Pilot sounds good.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 14, 2018)

HereWeGoAgain said:


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That's why they invented air travel!

I'm sorry!  I am too much of a control freak to get comfortable when my wife drives, so I damn sure will not be relaxed when Robby the Robot takes the wheel!  I'll be a physical and emotional wreck 15 minutes into the trip!


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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The cities and the states.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 14, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Dude, you're delusional.  No computer even close exists.

BTW - I was involved in the development of one of the first pattern recognition system.  What's your background that qualifies you? 500 hours on the Xbox?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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  Oh I hear ya.
That would be the hardest thing to overcome. I dont trust pilots let alone computers.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
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The appeal?   Preventing the tens of thousands of deaths caused by people driving under the influence, driving while texting or driving when they are exhausted.

The appeal?  Controlling traffic flow to make rush hour move much faster and prevent idiots from screwing the entire thing up by trying to get 2 car lengths ahead.

I can think of a few more, but you have already made up your mind that it will signal the end of our republic.  So why bother.

If you are still here in 15 or 20 years, you will see.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 14, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I am not the one saying this will happen.   The experts in the fields of automotive technology are saying it.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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It is a prototype vehicle not for sale to the public.  $$$$$$$ and all it will do is crash and tell them they need more work.  Just pray it does not kill someone while it does it.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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New technology is always expensive.  And then the prices come down.    My brother had the first VCR I ever saw in a home.  It cost almost $5k.  The last one I saw for sale was around $50.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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It will never gain approval.  Computers are at best decades away from meeting the requirements.  It is a PR stunt.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Here is a link to some forecasts by experts:
Forecasts | Driverless car market watch


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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In case you missed it, these experts disagree.

Forecasts | Driverless car market watch


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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"According to biologists, the human brain has approximately 90 billion nerve cells which are linked together by, quite literally, trillions of connections called synapses. Taken together, this system of elaborate connections within the brain provides “hundreds of trillions of different pathways that brain signals travel through.”

In an effort to mimic this digitally, scientists a few years ago needed more than* 82,000 processors* running on one of the world’s fastest supercomputers to mimic just 1 second of a normal human’s brain activity."

How powerful is the human brain compared to a computer?


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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And the brain performs many, many tasks.   In order to operate a driverless vehicle, the computer does not need to be more powerful than the human brain.   It simply takes inputs (of which the computer can handle more simultaniously) and performs programmed actions.  

And, as my previous link shows, many top people in the field are projecting driverless cars in the near future.


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## Correll (Jan 15, 2018)

I look forward to this for  three reasons.

1. Bring back drinking road trips. Before my time, but sounds like fun.

2. When I get too freaking old to drive, I won't be stuck at home. Or the Home. This is good for other old people too.

3. Being able to send my car to pick up people and/or shit, without going myself.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Dude, they can't even make a robot walk in a mall without running into something.  Let alone drive down a road at 50 mph with a plethora of obstacles and dangers no one will be able to program for.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Dude, they already HAVE made cars that navigate roads in traffic, respond to stoplights and various signs, navigate roundabout intersections and avoid accidents at various speeds.   I am sure there are rare situations that might come up.   But given the death, destruction and costs of our current drivers, claiming this is all a PR stunt is ridiculous.


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## Correll (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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I used to work near a experimental area where one was driving around quite a bit. Saw it all the time.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Correll said:


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I test drove a Tesla Model S a couple of years ago.  The technology was amazing then.  I was fascinated by the fact that the car could "read" the speed limit signs and notify you if you exceeded it by whatever margin you set.   That car could haul ass too!


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## OnePercenter (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> OnePercenter said:
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Yes. Turns out that your cool automatic braking system can be all too human

And it's still occurring today.


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## OnePercenter (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> OnePercenter said:
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> > Old Rocks said:
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No, until A. I. is fully developed we'll be playing with flawed technology.


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## OnePercenter (Jan 15, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> OnePercenter said:
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> > Old Rocks said:
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It doesn't.


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## OnePercenter (Jan 15, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
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> > OnePercenter said:
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Here's your answer: The Most Trusted Name In Collision Avoidance | Mobileye


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## OnePercenter (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Correll said:
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And two trunks!


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Yes, they already do have some out on the road.  The bodies, limbs and blood are stacking up.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

OnePercenter said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I was very impressed with the car.   It comfortably sat 5 people, press the accelerator pedal hard and it is more like a launch, and technology like the space shuttle.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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And all those accidents were the fault of the driverless car?


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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All driverless cars.  The carnage is astronomical as a percentage of the cars on the road.


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## IsaacNewton (Jan 15, 2018)

Driver-less cars? What's next the 'Horseless carriage'?


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 15, 2018)

"Owners of driverless cars could be wrongly blamed for a crash even if the technology was at fault, insurers have warned."


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## GHook93 (Jan 15, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> 
> It is inevitable.



I am look forward to the driverless car, but I still want the option of driving myself 


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> "Owners of driverless cars could be wrongly blamed for a crash even if the technology was at fault, insurers have warned."



And that would be fought in court.   Successfully, in the cases where the human driver was clearly at fault.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 15, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Weatherman2020 said:
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Yes, I realize they are all driverless cars.  That was not my question.   Were all the accidents the fault of the driverless cars?


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 16, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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The first ever death in an autonomous car happened in May this year, the US road safety administration revealed yesterday. A man was killed after his Tesla, operating in Autopilot mode, hit an articulated lorry. The accident has cast doubt over the safety of the technology, but the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater, say experts.

Joshua Brown was driving along a Florida highway in a Tesla Model S that had been switched to Autopilot mode, when a lorry joined the road from a cross street. *Unable to distinguish the white truck against the brightly lit sky, the self-driving system failed to apply the brakes.
*
Tesla driver dies in first fatal autonomous car crash in US


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 16, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > "Owners of driverless cars could be wrongly blamed for a crash even if the technology was at fault, insurers have warned."
> ...


Your driverless car hits a wall and the driver will be at fault. 
But if you want to take on the army of lawyers at Tesla for $120K of damage, have at it.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 16, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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And the computer records show the car notified the driver *5 times* that there was a problem that required his attention.   The driver never stopped watching his movie.    The fault is with the driver.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 16, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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I was thinking more along the lines of another car (driven by a human) hits the driverless car.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 16, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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But instead a driverless car kills its passenger because it lacks human abilities.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 16, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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It warned him then proceeded to speed ahead and kill the passenger. 
Yeah, no one will ever be texting or napping in a driverless car.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 16, 2018)

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That Tesla was not built to be an autonomous car.   That warning was given to him plainly.  The two links and quotes below should plainly show you that the fault was with the driver.

The driver who died in a Tesla crash using Autopilot ignored at least 7 safety warnings
*"Now, government investigators say that in the minutes leading up to the collision, Brown was audibly warned six times to keep his hands on the steering wheel. He was also warned visually, seven times, on his Tesla's dashboard."

"Tesla requires its drivers to keep their hands on the wheel even when Autopilot is engaged. But Brown appears to have ignored those warnings, even as he manually increased the autopilot's speed 2 minutes before he crashed into the truck, according to the NTSB report."

"Earlier reports by NTSB on the crash have concluded that in addition to going hands-free for the majority of the trip, Brown also made no effort to brake, steer or otherwise avert the deadly accident."

"Since the crash, those reports have said, Tesla has updated its Autopilot feature to include a strikeout system, whereby drivers who repeatedly ignore safety warnings risk having their Autopilot disabled until the next time they start the car."

"At the time of the incident, Tesla said that it was the first crash involving Autopilot in roughly 130 million miles of driving in which the technology was in control. The United States suffers a death on the roads about once every 100 million vehicle miles traveled, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety."


Tesla’s Self-Driving System Cleared in Deadly Crash

"Eight months after a fatal crash involving a Tesla Motors car operating in a computer-assisted mode, federal auto-safety regulators said their investigation of the car found no defects in the system that caused the accident and said Tesla’s Autopilot-enabled vehicles did not need to be recalled."

"It determined he set his car’s cruise control at 74 miles per hour about two minutes before the crash, and should have had at least seven seconds to notice the truck before crashing into it."*


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## WinterBorn (Jan 16, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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The driver manually increased the speed, while ignoring the warnings from the vehicle.   I was mistaken earlier.  The vehicle gave 6 audible warenings and 7 warnings on the dashboard.


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## TomParks (Jan 23, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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A Tesla allegedly on Autopilot rams into the back of fire truck


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 23, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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Understandable how it could have missed seeing such a small object.  Now the driver is at fault and will be ticketed and fined for what the car did.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 23, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> 
> It is inevitable.


Never will I ever trust my life to a driverless vehicle


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## WinterBorn (Jan 23, 2018)

TomParks said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
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I will be curious to see the results of the investigation.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 23, 2018)

Skull Pilot said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
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> > GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> ...



YOu trust your life to idiots who may be under the influence, texting or exhausted.  Much more dangerous.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 23, 2018)

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> Skull Pilot said:
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No I don't.

And I would trust my reflexes over the program of some computer.

I put less than 20K miles total on all my vehicles a year.

No way no how am I riding in some self driving car ever.

I have been driving for well over 3 decades and have never had an accident and I only have ever gotten one speeding ticket in all that time.  I think my track record is better than any driverless car to date


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## Old Rocks (Jan 23, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> TomParks said:
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> > Weatherman2020 said:
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Since Tesla does not sell the car as having full auto pilot, and states that you must keep your eyes on the road, and hands on the wheel at all times, what you have said is wrong. The driver was definitely at fault.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 23, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
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> > WinterBorn said:
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You just said the guy was killed because he ignored warnings, then you rant about idiot humans.

Sounds like your scenario is screwed.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 23, 2018)

Skull Pilot said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > GM plans to release cars with no steering wheel in 2019
> ...


Driverless cars fully automated are for gullible leftist bobbleheads who do what their masters tell them what to do, despite the obvious flaws.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 23, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Skull Pilot said:
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Since the thread is about driverless cars, your attempt to include the Tesla is where the screwup is.  It is not designed or built to be a driverless car.

And, I said the driver was killed because he ignored warnings because that is what the investigation found.  My comment about idiot humans is a statement replying to another statement.


But keep trying.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 23, 2018)

Old Rocks said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > TomParks said:
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Yet it still let the the car smash into the fire truck.
But you're right. No one will ever snooze, text, or talk on the cell phone with driverless cars.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 23, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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The flaws will be worked out.  Human drivers cause 30k to 40k deaths a year.   Human drivers cost billions of dollars.   Human drivers are the number one cause of death in this country.  So the system you cling to is not working and has not worked.  I, nor any of the experts I have read, have claimed the driverless cars will be perfect.  But your attitude is the equivalent of staying in a sewer because you don't want to step in mud puddles.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 23, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Old Rocks said:
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Did it?  If the Tesla was at fault, I will happily admit it.  But let's wait for the investigation to see what happened.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 24, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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And when the driverless car system fails as it eventually will we'll have 30000 deaths in a day


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## WinterBorn (Jan 24, 2018)

Skull Pilot said:


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30,000 deaths in a day?  Wow, that is some kind of crowded area to plow through.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 24, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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If a nation wide self driving control crashed how many accidents do you think there would be in the first 10 minutes?
Now consider that there are over 250 million cars on the road in the US and then tell me that 30000 is a ridiculous number.

We can't even keep computers and systems from crashing at airports and you think we can flawlessly operate a nationwide sensor array that can simultaneously control and track 250 million cars.

Tell me how would you like a fully automated air traffic control system?


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## WinterBorn (Jan 24, 2018)

Skull Pilot said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I have not seen any suggestion of a central control system for driverless cars.   I have seen discussions of central data systems, like a GPS system with additional information concerning traffic and weather.  The cars are largely autonomous.

But if, as you say, there is a central control for 250 million cars, it would be a simple thing to program each driverless car's responses to a lack of communication with the central control.   On smaller roads, simply pull over, park, and turn on the flashers.   On the interstates, take the next exit and park.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 24, 2018)

Skull Pilot said:


> WinterBorn said:
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> > Weatherman2020 said:
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He has no clue about technology and how it works and does not work.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 24, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
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See my previous answer.

Also, I have provided a link in this thread showing some of the top experts in the various fields concerning automotive technology.   But then, since you worked on the early versions of shape recognition, I am sure you know far more than they do.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 24, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > WinterBorn said:
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It would have to be centrally controlled unless of course you want each state to come up with their own system then trust that the hand offs between states will be seamless.

And every single car stopping at the same time won't be a problem at all right?  Let's hope you're the one in an ambulance when the system crashes (and it will crash) not me.

And tell me how every single car on the freeway during rush hour is going to be able to pull over into the breakdown lane.

So if each car is autonomous what happens when the computers on individual cars crash (and they will crash)?


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 24, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


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When we can totally automate air traffic control and have all planes be pilot-less I might consider driverless cars safe, maybe.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 24, 2018)

Skull Pilot said:


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Every single car stopping won't be a problem.  No moving cars means no crashes.  And they will all stop receiving the signal from the central system at the exact same time.   But I still do not think they will all be controlled by a central system.

During rush hour no one is travelling at a high speed.  

Autonomous cars will have backup systems in the event of a computer crash.  Much like nuclear reactors do.  They are all computerized.

Having failsafes in place will insure the cars respond in a predictable manner if the onboard computer fails.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 24, 2018)

Skull Pilot said:


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There is a huge difference.   If something fails in a driverless car, the car can pull over when the backup system takes over.   Plus, the guidance system will only deal with 2 dimensions.  A failure in the systems in an aircraft results in very different things.  It cannot pull over.  It cannot just stop.  And having to deal with more directions means more complexity.

But modern missile systems are basically aircraft without a pilot (except the exploding part).   For example, the cruise missile is launched by computer.  It flies, follows the terrain, and goes to a specific spot all by computer control.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 24, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Computers never crash, lockup or do things unexpectedly.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 24, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Yeah failsafes you mean like the ones we have now for other systems that still crash?


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 24, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Cruise missiles do not carry people so it doesn't matter if the system fails and the thing crashes and blows up


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 24, 2018)

WinterBorn said:


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Good analogy.


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## Weatherman2020 (Feb 3, 2018)

Why cops won’t need a warrant to pull the data off your autonomous car.


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## petro (Feb 3, 2018)

OP still has failed to sell a single Tesla here. 

As long as I live this miracle network highway system will not exist. I will continue to drive myself.
Still don't see a driverless vehicle that will tow my boat, or snowmobile trailer, or a work trailer. One has to assume recreational vehicles of all types are banned in this fantasy utopia destroying a large segment of the economy.
Like my guns, you will have to pry my cold dead hands off the wheel of my gas hog SUV.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Feb 5, 2018)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Computers never crash, lockup or do things unexpectedly.


Yes, and thankfully humans don't, either.


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