# Repeal Capital Gains Taxes



## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

Not willing to waste minutes of my life looking up how much comes in in taxes from this each year, but I"d think if investing in the economy is good for the economy, the naiton, and everyone in it, then encouraging investment makes sense . And that presumedly more is gained with more investment than gained by taxing existing investment. 

So repeal Capital Gains taxes.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Historical Capital Gains and Taxes


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Older graph...........Do you see the trend............AS RATES GO UP..........Revenues go down..............They pull the money when you raise rates..............

Weird thread.  DELTA is actually ditching Obama and the Dems on this one.............Didn't he get the memo.................They raised these rates and the revenues are down again.................

Weird isn't it..............Maybe Delta didn't know he was ditching Obama on this one.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Capital Gains Taxes The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics Library of Economics and Liberty

*Conclusion*
On balance, the evidence supports the economic case for a low rate of tax on capital gains. Recent actual experience suggests that a low rate of tax on capital gains increases capital investment and new business formation. Tax revenues have surged when the capital gains rate has been cut as trillions of dollars of locked-in capital are released to be put to more productive uses.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Older graph...........Do you see the trend............AS RATES GO UP..........Revenues go down..............They pull the money when you raise rates..............
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> Weird thread.  DELTA is actually ditching Obama and the Dems on this one.............Didn't he get the memo.................They raised these rates and the revenues are down again.................
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> Weird isn't it..............Maybe Delta didn't know he was ditching Obama on this one.



Never been WITH President Obama. I respect the office, not the nitwits in it.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


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> > Older graph...........Do you see the trend............AS RATES GO UP..........Revenues go down..............They pull the money when you raise rates..............
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So you would agree that Obama and the Dems made a mistake by increasing the Capital Gains Tax Rates...............
and would you agree that they offshore their money as a result.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

Your problem, like every conservative on this board is when ever someone disgrees with you you assume they're a liberal. I'm not a liberal. I have liberal positions just like I have ocnservative ones, but I'm apolitical in American politics. I follow what goes on though, but prefer remaining non-partisan and thus unbiased. Makes things easier in some lines of work.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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If they raised capital gains taxes yes, it was a mistake. Dunno anythin gabout the offshore thing so wont comment.


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## Moonglow (Oct 25, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Older graph...........Do you see the trend............AS RATES GO UP..........Revenues go down..............They pull the money when you raise rates..............
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> Weird thread.  DELTA is actually ditching Obama and the Dems on this one.............Didn't he get the memo.................They raised these rates and the revenues are down again.................
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> Weird isn't it..............Maybe Delta didn't know he was ditching Obama on this one.


Did they ditch Bush Sr.?


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Your problem, like every conservative on this board is when ever someone disgrees with you you assume they're a liberal. I'm not a liberal. I have liberal positions just like I have ocnservative ones, but I'm apolitical in American politics. I follow what goes on though, but prefer remaining non-partisan and thus unbiased. Makes things easier in some lines of work.


Your skirt usually shows liberal bias on most of your posts.................so I doubt your apolitical status.....................

To the Op......the new higher rates should be lowered to the old rates to encourage investments in this country to create jobs and REVENUE........


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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> > Older graph...........Do you see the trend............AS RATES GO UP..........Revenues go down..............They pull the money when you raise rates..............
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Rates were raised and revenues went down on that part of the graph............The rates go up and down during the bubbles leading to recessions as well..............

But overall, it shows that increasing the tax rate on this causes loss in revenues and not gains.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 25, 2014)

There should be no capital gains taxes nor should there be income taxes


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)




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## Care4all (Oct 25, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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If you lower rates and revenues increase, then why do you have to go even lower and lower and lower?  Shouldn't the revenues maintain the increase in revenues if that tax cut has stayed in place?

WHO raised capital gains income taxes and WHEN.....?  Were they raised the past 2 decades?  2013 has a possible raise for higher incomes, but that began in 2013????  Soooo, please tell us when and where they were raised by Dems and when did this raise take place that you keep mentioning?


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## Moonglow (Oct 25, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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So Bush Sr. was trashed...ok


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Care4all said:


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Capital gains tax in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

You are correct that they will be raised in 2013.  The rate increases are shown on the wiki site..................

Historical evidence will show that under higher rates revenues will drop, so the effect of higher Capital Gains rates are negative Revenue to the Federal Gov't.

The real question is why would you raise the rates when historically it has actually lowered your revenues.............You raise rates to get revenues right...............
Not so in reality.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Moonglow said:


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In effect, we lost revenues by higher rates under his presidency............

and it still shows that under the higher rates we lost revenue...........so again why raise them when you know you'll lose money for it.


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## boedicca (Oct 25, 2014)

Care4all said:


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Riddle me this:  The government taxes cigarettes to discourage smoking.  So, by taxing capital gaines, what should we expect?


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

Capital Gains tax is a punishment for investing and again for investing well. Of course it should be repealed. And if a repeal and resulting encouraging to invest more happened that we got more benefit then there's even more incentive to repeal it. 

Wr're never going to pay off the National Debt, that ship sailed a long time ago. So clinging to taxes out of some nonsensical wish of being able to pay down the debt is just counter-productive.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 25, 2014)

_So repeal Capital Gains taxes._

absolutely not


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Capital Gains tax is a punishment for investing and again for investing well. Of course it should be repealed. And if a repeal and resulting encouraging to invest more happened that we got more benefit then there's even more incentive to repeal it.
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> Wr're never going to pay off the National Debt, that ship sailed a long time ago. So clinging to taxes out of some nonsensical wish of being able to pay down the debt is just counter-productive.


Most capital gains are in the Markets............and jobs haven't followed the markets because the markets are based on fiction and monopoly money to inflate large bubbles.............

The labor participation rate...........aka jobs...........has been dying since 2000............as has the Velocity of Money................

The jobs will not follow the markets......................they haven't been and still will not have massive increases of employment as a result of getting rid of Capital Gains taxes................

To me, the bottom line problem of the downward trend in America is FREE TRADE................Which started the massive down trend.  and also the price increases for pretty much everything we buy that the Gov't misinterprets by changing the way they calculate the basket of goods.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

I am in favor of not increasing the gains taxes and taking them back to the lower levels............Revenue from the same peaked at about 130 Billion in 2006/7


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## HereWeGoAgain (Oct 25, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> _So repeal Capital Gains taxes._
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> absolutely not



   Says the guy with no chance of earning any capital gains so he wants to stick it to the people who do.....because it's just fair.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

Investing in a stock issue is just like putting your money in the bank in that someone else can now use that money. In return, if they do well your principal investment grows and you make profit lending your money. Just like the interest banks give (but much much less.) 

The capital gains tax though is then punishing you if you do well investing and lending a business your money. Whereas many bank type accounts might be tax-exempt. This double standard isn't fair. Thus the taxable one should be eliminated.

I don't care about the maths involved, simply the aspect of one's fair, the other isn't. Get rid of everythign unfair.


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## Care4all (Oct 25, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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But why keep lowering them is my question.....
I think businesses would be better served by lowering/revamping the corporate income tax....  but eliminating as the op suggests, does not benefit us one bit...at least NOT MOST Americans....

Most Americans are in 401k's that are invested in the stock market, and are not taxed when we sell one stock and purchase another in our 401k or IRA investments....we will be taxed on our withdrawals from these retirement funds, but at that point MOST Americans will have much lower yearly incomes, and double deductions from the IRS among other things at that point....

MOST American do not have yearly income from capital gains, and if they do, it is minimal, and NOT Taxed at all according to the charts I looked at, if I understood this chart correctly???

Any capital gains tax cuts or elimination, benefits THE FEW, and NOT the many.....and it adds to the rapid accumulation of wealth in to the hands of the FEW, and this just makes the income gap being discussed the last decade, soooooo much worse....

NOT a good idea imo.

I think if we revamp corp. tax structure, to about where our corp effective rates truly are and come in at when all is set and done at tax time for these corps, showing the world these lower rates upfront...will bring more investment here on our own soil....  bring more companies home, bring more jobs...  more jobs, fewer unemployed, more competitive pay....

Federal Capital Gains Tax Rates 1988-2013 Tax Foundation


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

...Surely we can all come together...And agree fair is fair like Billie Jean said in this movie.


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## Care4all (Oct 25, 2014)

boedicca said:


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I WOULD agree with you, but ONLY THE VERY FEW would benefit from this....very very very few.

WHY NOT MAKE IT ZERO taxes on those of us that earn a living by our labor, by working for a living, and just raise the capital gains tax to ''pay the bills''?

THEY are both silly ideas.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

I am apolitical. Never voted, never donated to any political party or cause. I know what's going on, have positions, opinions, and beliefs. But I don't express them by participating in the process. So long as American politics are just two parties, and everyone in either typically votes along party lines, instead of what's fair or just, fuck em all.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Care4all said:


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I am not in favor of eliminating them.  I'm for lower rates and not increasing them as in 2013.  Why...........because historically the higher rates lower revenues..................

Secondly, I posted the chart on Corp taxes for a reason.............because in order to get businesses back here instead of overseas we need to lower these rates............so the money is flowing here instead of over there.............and in Corps they pass on the overhead costs to the consumers anyway so in effect they are simply raising prices to pay the taxes anyway................

We need jobs here in America...........Industry and manufacturing that pay more than chump change, and in order to do so we need tax breaks to get people back to work and increase the money circulation in this country.  On top of that we need to ditch Free Trade and place tariffs on unfair trade from the 3rd world who don't have to play by the same rules we play by.  Giving Foreign countries an unfair advantage on marketing their goods in the U.S. because they have no EPA standards at all and laughable wages..................

Note that we can't go full monty on that issue either as many or our prices would greatly increase if we aren't careful on how much to tariff.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 25, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Not willing to waste minutes of my life looking up how much comes in in taxes from this each year, but I"d think if investing in the economy is good for the economy, the naiton, and everyone in it, then encouraging investment makes sense . And that presumedly more is gained with more investment than gained by taxing existing investment.
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> So repeal Capital Gains taxes.


Capital Gains tax needs to be increased to 25%.  Taxes on stocks and bonds, need to be increased to 25%.  Loop holes that allow companies to "off-shore" their profits, need to be closed.  And finally, we need to add a Financial Transactions Tax for every single trade or transaction on Wall Street, much like a sales tax.

I am sick of corporate welfare and sick of having to cough up the difference when they don't pay their fair share.


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 25, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
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> > Not willing to waste minutes of my life looking up how much comes in in taxes from this each year, but I"d think if investing in the economy is good for the economy, the naiton, and everyone in it, then encouraging investment makes sense . And that presumedly more is gained with more investment than gained by taxing existing investment.
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...Now I kinda see why some use terms like "libtard." Nothing personal.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
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> > Not willing to waste minutes of my life looking up how much comes in in taxes from this each year, but I"d think if investing in the economy is good for the economy, the naiton, and everyone in it, then encouraging investment makes sense . And that presumedly more is gained with more investment than gained by taxing existing investment.
> ...



Bolded...........

Any firm or individual in that firm is taxed via Corporate taxes and Individual Income taxes.............So a trader has a job, with a firm and makes money on volume of trades............He is then taxed at an applicable rate of income earned at the end of the year or on every pay check.  That would be double taxation........Offshoring the money is different, and they would simply go to Europe with their money and trade for the same stock options over there either directly or by proxy.

You live in a fairy tale.


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## boedicca (Oct 25, 2014)

Care4all said:


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Uh....a lot of middle class people have homes and invest in stocks (now that savings accounts earn virtually no interest at all).   Pension funds invest in stocks.  Capital gains taxes affect millions of people.

And while we're getting rid of Cap Gains taxes, let's get rid of the AMT, which now affects middle classes.

Finally, I'll note that taxes that are justified as being for The Rich inevitably work there way down to the broad middle class.   The Rich's wealth and income are mobile, and via regulatory capture, they have enormous influence over tax policy.  The middle class, however, are stuck. It's very difficult to rip out one's life and start all over some place else, unless one has a great deal of financial resources or is willing to start at the bottom.

The Billionaires who cry out for raising taxes on the Rich to pay their Fair Share ALREADY HAVE THEIR WEALTH, so the taxes they advocate just keep other people from accumulating some of their own.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 25, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> ...Now I kinda see why some use terms like "libtard." Nothing personal.


You think bullshit innuendo's are valid rebuttals?


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## Billo_Really (Oct 25, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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> Any firm or individual in that firm is taxed via Corporate taxes and Individual Income taxes.............So a trader has a job, with a firm and makes money on volume of trades............He is then taxed at an applicable rate of income earned at the end of the year or on every pay check.  That would be double taxation........Offshoring the money is different, and they would simply go to Europe with their money and trade for the same stock options over there either directly or by proxy.
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> You live in a fairy tale.


Corporate taxes depend on how the corporation is filed as an "S" corporation, or a "C" corporation.  Regardless, "S" corporations are only taxed at 10%, when I'm sitting here paying almost 35% of my salary.  Corporations are getting a free ride at the expense of American tax payers and this type of corporate welfare needs to stop.

And charging the financial industry 0.003% for every trade they make is not going to kill anyone, but will wipe out our deficit and national debt.


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 25, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


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Where did you come up with the 3 / thousand percentage rate...........0.003%  That would be a thousand trades for 3 cents


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## SteadyMercury (Nov 12, 2014)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Capital Gains tax is a punishment for investing and again for investing well.


Where do you get this "again" thing?

You are only taxed on your investment gains, there is no tax on your initial investment. If I invest a million bucks that million bucks isn't taxed.



Delta4Embassy said:


> The capital gains tax though is then punishing you if you do well investing and lending a business your money. Whereas many bank type accounts might be tax-exempt. This double standard isn't fair. Thus the taxable one should be eliminated.


You pay interest on bank account interest too.


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## SteadyMercury (Nov 12, 2014)

Care4all said:


> Most Americans are in 401k's that are invested in the stock market, and are not taxed when we sell one stock and purchase another in our 401k or IRA investments....we will be taxed on our withdrawals from these retirement funds, but at that point MOST Americans will have much lower yearly incomes, and double deductions from the IRS among other things at that point....
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> MOST American do not have yearly income from capital gains, and if they do, it is minimal, and NOT Taxed at all according to the charts I looked at, if I understood this chart correctly???


I submit you are correct and the overwhelming majority of Americans pay very little in capital gains taxes for exactly the reason you mention. You don't pay it in 401ks or IRAs, you'd just pay normal income tax upon withdrawal some of which would be taxed at 0% since it would fall within your deductions and exemptions.

To take it further capital gains taxes are all of 0% for people in the 15% tax bracket, which for a married couple is a household income of about 93k in 2014.


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## Rozman (Nov 15, 2014)

Something needs to be done about the Estate tax or Death tax.
Makes no sense to me why families get punished for being successful.
They pass down their business to the sons and daughters and then they have to sell the family
business that was handed down from generation to generation so they can pay the taxes.


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## SteadyMercury (Nov 16, 2014)

I agree that makes no sense. If one builds up an estate they have already been taxed both on income and gains, it makes no sense to tax it again.

Then again isn't the threshold something like five million dollars? It is another one that sounds terrible but probably affects a very small percentage of estates.


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## blastoff (Nov 26, 2014)

Deep six the damn gains tax.  Most folks who invest do so with what's left over from money they've earned _after_ paying taxes on those earnings.  Then if you're fortunate enough that the investment grows in value you're taxed again on the damn gain.  

Taxed Enough Already!


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