# The Last Letter: A Message to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney From a Dying Veteran



## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

> To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
> From: Tomas Young
> 
> I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.
> ...


*Please don't post complete articles.*


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!

Chris Hedges: The Crucifixion of Tomas Young - Chris Hedges' Columns - Truthdig

Truthdig - The Forgotten Wounded of Iraq


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## velvtacheeze (Mar 19, 2013)

There is a good reason why neither Bush nor Cheney leave the US: They are afraid of arrest for their war crimes.  Good.  They should be.


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## The2ndAmendment (Mar 19, 2013)

That is the most beautiful letter I ever read. We need more of these.

(HOLY SHIT DID I GIVE MY APPROVAL OF A THREAD BY LAKHOTA!!!)


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## velvtacheeze (Mar 19, 2013)

65 more Iraqis who were better off under Saddam.

Iraq Attacks Across Baghdad Kill 65, Wound Hundreds

BAGHDAD  Insurgents sent a bloody message on the eve of the 10th anniversary of the U.S.-led invasion, carrying out a wave of bombings across the country Tuesday that killed at least 65 people in the deadliest day in Iraq this year.

The nearly 20 attacks, most of them in and around Baghdad, demonstrated in stark terms how dangerously divided Iraq remains more than a year after American troops withdrew. More than 240 people were reported wounded.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
> 
> Truthdig - The Forgotten Wounded of Iraq



Thank you for what, writing a letter that is nothing more than a collection of Democrat talking points to President Bush?  I would think he could think of better things to do with the last few days of his life than serve as a propaganda tool for the Democrat Party.


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## LogikAndReazon (Mar 19, 2013)

Poor, confused, drug adled, leftist..........


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2013)

velvtacheeze said:


> 65 more Iraqis who were better off under Saddam.
> 
> Iraq Attacks Across Baghdad Kill 65, Wound Hundreds
> 
> ...



How do you know they wouldn't be dead if Saddam was still running Iraq?


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## Black_Label (Mar 19, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
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> > Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
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Nice work trashing our troops. You right wingers are disgusting.


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## DaGoose (Mar 19, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
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> > Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
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You're a moron, moron. 

All Bush did was get our troops injured and killed FOR NO GOOD REASON.

HE did. BUSH. No one else has the authority to actually order troops into battle. 

.


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
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> > Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
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Have you no shame?  Don't you think this dying veteran has earned the right to express his final thoughts?


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2013)

Black_Label said:


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I trashed nobody.  I simply pointed out the idiocy of using your own death for something as shallow as scoring political points.   That's how fucking sick leftists are.  Joining the Army and getting shot doesn't make them any smarter, and the turds who cheer them on are even sicker.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


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This is just another example of liberals using some pathetic victim to express their political agenda because they think he's immune from criticism.  It's a cheap political tactic, and the people who use it are the sickest, most cynical kind of people there are.


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## Black_Label (Mar 19, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


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W and the GOP sent thousands of troops off the die over nothing but to bankroll themselves. 

Though right wing idiots like you love your GOP masters spending like lunatics and having our troops coming home in body bags, while you sit on your lazy ass all day collecting welfare checks and bitching about "da libs" as an excuse for your pathetic existence.


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## Oldguy (Mar 19, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


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You mean like the right has been trying to use Christopher Stevens?


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## velvtacheeze (Mar 19, 2013)

Conservatives,  tell the board about the lessons you've learned from your mistakes, especially the Iraq War.  I'd like to hear why you now know that your bellicose position made the US and Iraq worse off.  What's it like knowing that liberals were right all along?  After losing two Presidential elections in a row because of your mistakes, what would you have done differently?


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

A Decade Of Mistakes: Timeline Of The Iraq War

5 Reasons The U.S. Is Worse Off Because Of The Iraq War


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## FireFly (Mar 19, 2013)

So the Bush blame game continues. The House voted 297 to 133 & Senate voted 77 to 23 for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq & 74% of us wanted to invade Iraq.

Gallup Poll Nov 27 2001 showed that 74% of us wanted the US to invade Iraq with ground troops after 9/11.

"Would you favor or oppose invading Iraq with U.S. ground troops in an attempt to remove Saddam Hussein from power?"

74% Favor  -  20% Oppose  -  6% No opinion

*So was Bush supposed to go against the will of the people?*


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

> I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician.



Well he got that part right.  Government healthcare sucks.


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

> *Americas Lost Decade in Iraq: A Marine Officer Looks Back*
> 
> _by Benjamin Busch Mar 19, 2013 4:00 AM EDT_
> 
> A Marine officer who served two tours in Iraq looks back at 10 years of war, death, and destruction and asks what we learned: *nothing. *



America's Lost Decade in Iraq: A Marine Officer Looks Back - The Daily Beast


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

velvtacheeze said:


> Conservatives,  tell the board about the lessons you've learned from your mistakes, especially the Iraq War.  I'd like to hear why you now know that your bellicose position made the US and Iraq worse off.  What's it like knowing that liberals were right all along?  After losing two Presidential elections in a row because of your mistakes, what would you have done differently?



A larger invasion force, a shorter timeline for rebuilding, reorganized the Iraqi military under supportive leaders.


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## FireFly (Mar 19, 2013)

asterism said:


> > I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician.
> 
> 
> 
> Well he got that part right.  Government healthcare sucks.



But...but... We were told government healthcare is the best!


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

FireFly said:


> So the Bush blame game continues. The House voted 297 to 133 & Senate voted 77 to 23 for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq & 74% of us wanted to invade Iraq.
> 
> Gallup Poll Nov 27 2001 showed that 74% of us wanted the US to invade Iraq with ground troops after 9/11.
> 
> ...



Pure bullshit.  America was high on fear, patriotism and Bush lies about Iraq involvement after 9/11.

Iraq was invaded twice based on DECEPTION - both times by a Bush President.

Saddam/Glaspie Transcript: Is the US State Department still keeping April Glaspie under wraps?


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## Mr. President (Mar 19, 2013)

People have their own opinions.  How quickly we forget the thousands of Kurdish people who Saddam tested chemical weapons on or the countless number of political prisoners who were tortured.  Perhaps I will one day forget the bodies of children who were murdered as a warning to the parents who were the wrong religion.   Yes lets defend the Arabs who bombed playgrounds in order to exercise their will.  

Cowards downplay the role we served in Iraq.  Was it pretty? No and war never is.  But they have a chance at freedom.  Mistakes were made I will admit but right now the average Iraqi is thankful we came and liberated them.  You news jockeys are pathetic looking for an angle from msn or huffpost.  Want a real perspective?  Enlist.


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> People have their own opinions.  How quickly we forget the thousands of Kurdish people who Saddam tested chemical weapons on or the countless number of political prisoners who were tortured.  Perhaps I will one day forget the bodies of children who were murdered as a warning to the parents who were the wrong religion.   Yes lets defend the Arabs who bombed playgrounds in order to exercise their will.
> 
> Cowards downplay the role we served in Iraq.  Was it pretty? No and war never is.  But they have a chance at freedom.  Mistakes were made I will admit but right now the average Iraqi is thankful we came and liberated them.  You news jockeys are pathetic looking for an angle from msn or huffpost.  *Want a real perspective?  Enlist.*



Tomas Young did enlist - therefore his perspective is real.


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## Bill Angel (Mar 19, 2013)

> I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician



I'm a vet who gets his medical care from the VA Medical Center in Baltimore, and I would never agree with the assertion that this individual is here making.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2013)

Oldguy said:


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Christopher Stevens is dead.  He's not pumping out any kind of propaganda, and he's immune to criticism.


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> > *Americas Lost Decade in Iraq: A Marine Officer Looks Back*
> >
> > _by Benjamin Busch Mar 19, 2013 4:00 AM EDT_
> >
> ...



To be fair, Busch was a lefty before he joined the Corps.  Decent guy (for an officer), but a little too hoity-toity for me.  Two things you always knew about him if you ever met him in a bar:

1.  He was a Marine Officer and considered himself to be above most he met because...

2.  He went to Vassar.  He figured most of the people "below" him were those numbskulls that couldn't get into college (or pay for it, and it's good to have rich parents).

That said, he's got as much a right to speak his mind as any of us.


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## Mr. President (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Mr. President said:
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> > People have their own opinions.  How quickly we forget the thousands of Kurdish people who Saddam tested chemical weapons on or the countless number of political prisoners who were tortured.  Perhaps I will one day forget the bodies of children who were murdered as a warning to the parents who were the wrong religion.   Yes lets defend the Arabs who bombed playgrounds in order to exercise their will.
> ...



he is mad because he paid the price he said he was willing to pay and he regrets it now.  he doesn't speak for the majority of us or even  significant minority


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## dblack (Mar 19, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> That is the most beautiful letter I ever read. We need more of these.
> 
> (HOLY SHIT DID I GIVE MY APPROVAL OF A THREAD BY LAKHOTA!!!)



Heh... tell me about it. If only our press, or the pathetic excuse for an "opposition party" had been half as persuasive, we might have avoided the entire Iraq adventure.


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## LogikAndReazon (Mar 19, 2013)

Enlistees and their mothers should decide which battles are worthy to fight and which ones are not....in fact the only reason for a military should be for expanding the civil servants, training and education.......lol


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

Charts: Bush Lowballed Us on Iraq by $6 Trillion | Mother Jones


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

Lie by Lie: A Timeline of How We Got Into Iraq | Mother Jones


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## Mr. President (Mar 19, 2013)

Then tell Obama to enforce the agreement that Iraq would pay for the war with oil profits.  We know they are making enough.  Well wait.. That would be accountability.  Nevermind continue shaking your fist at shadows of the past like a good little puppet.


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

What is Tomas Young dying from?


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

asterism said:


> What is Tomas Young dying from?



Chris Hedges: The Crucifixion of Tomas Young - Chris Hedges' Columns - Truthdig


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

Where Are The Media's Iraq War Boosters 10 Years Later?


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

> *No Forgiveness for Bushs 'Useful Idiots,' the Liberal Hawks Who Led Us into War*
> 
> The liberal establishment willfully payed along with the preposterous claims that led to the Iraq War.



No Forgiveness for Bush's 'Useful Idiots,' the Liberal Hawks Who Led Us into War


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


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So he's committing suicide?


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> > *No Forgiveness for Bushs 'Useful Idiots,' the Liberal Hawks Who Led Us into War*
> >
> > The liberal establishment willfully payed along with the preposterous claims that led to the Iraq War.
> 
> ...



So says the Hillary voter.

You will vote for Hillary if she runs against Rubio right?


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## Staidhup (Mar 19, 2013)

So here we go, the economy sucks so drag Bush up again. What a pathetic country we have become. Just think, if WMD's had been discovered, Carter and senate had not decimated the CIA, the liberal pukes wouldn't have had anyone to blame but them selves for their mediocrity.


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## FireFly (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Charts: Bush Lowballed Us on Iraq by $6 Trillion | Mother Jones



 BULLSHIT!!! 

The war dropped oil prices by 1/3rd. Over the 8 year war period that likely saved us triple the cost of the war. As soon as we pulled our troops out of Iraq on December 31, 2011 gas prices shot up 25%.

When we invaded Iraq oil price dropped 33%. That 33% drop in price times our USA annual 7.6 billion barrel oil consumption saved us $366 billion a year. Over the 8 years of the Iraq war that total oil savings is $2.9 trillion. So take out the ~$1 trillion cost of the Iraq war & we may be $1.9 trillion in the black.

*Oil prices crashed 33% from $40 down to $27 after we invaded Iraq in March 2003.*







*As soon as we pulled our troops out of Iraq on December 31, 2011 gas prices shot up 25%.*


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

Staidhup said:


> So here we go, the economy sucks so drag Bush up again. What a pathetic country we have become. Just think, if WMD's had been discovered, Carter and senate had not decimated the CIA, the liberal pukes wouldn't have had anyone to blame but them selves for their mediocrity.



Except munitions prohibited by the UN agreement were indeed found, they were classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction and they were not destroyed as claimed by Saddam.

The rest is just revisionist history.

WikiLeaks CONFIRMS WMD in Iraq - DJohn - Open Salon


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## dblack (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> > *No Forgiveness for Bushs 'Useful Idiots,' the Liberal Hawks Who Led Us into War*
> >
> > The liberal establishment willfully payed along with the preposterous claims that led to the Iraq War.
> 
> ...



Yeah. I don't see how the Democrats continue to pitch themselves as less aggressive on foreign policy, especially when the only credible anti-war voices are heard from Republicans (namely the Pauls).


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

dblack said:


> Lakhota said:
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> > > *No Forgiveness for Bushs 'Useful Idiots,' the Liberal Hawks Who Led Us into War*
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Sooo, you think the "Pauls" are representative of Republican voices on warmongering?  Funny...

Graham calls for boots on the ground in Syria


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## Oldguy (Mar 19, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


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Wait.  Are you saying the right hasn't been using Stevens to score political points?  How about what they did with Pat Tillman or Jessica Lynch?


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

dblack said:


> Lakhota said:
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> > > *No Forgiveness for Bushs 'Useful Idiots,' the Liberal Hawks Who Led Us into War*
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I give Obama high marks for his non-election season military strategy.  He followed Bush's Iraq timeline (not really Bush's but Bush signed off on it), used the Bin Laden strategy Bush's underlings started with amazing success, and made the call to have McChrystal repeat "The Surge" in Afghanistan.

That's a good record.


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 19, 2013)

The2ndAmendment said:


> That is the most beautiful letter I ever read. We need more of these.
> 
> (HOLY SHIT DID I GIVE MY APPROVAL OF A THREAD BY LAKHOTA!!!)



Yes which should have you questioning yourself as a matter of principle.


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## dblack (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


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Not in general, no. They're outliers for now. But, as Glenn Greenwald has observed: 




> Whatever else one wants to say, it is indisputably true that Ron Paul is the only political figure with any sort of a national platform  certainly the only major presidential candidate in either party  who advocates policy views on issues that liberals and progressives have long flamboyantly claimed are both compelling and crucial. The converse is equally true: the candidate supported by liberals and progressives and for whom most will vote  Barack Obama  advocates views on these issues (indeed, has taken action on these issues) that liberals and progressives have long claimed to find repellent, even evil.


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

Tomas Young has many legitimate reasons to be bitter.  We all do...



> (CNN) -- The Bush administration began planning to use U.S. troops to invade Iraq within days after the former Texas governor entered the White House three years ago, former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill told CBS News' 60 Minutes.



CNN.com - O'Neill: Bush planned Iraq invasion before 9/11

New Documents Show Bush Administration Planned War in Iraq Well Before 9/11/2001


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Tomas Young did enlist - therefore his perspective is real.



Really? Do we have any evidence, besides your assertion that this man even exists? Or that he wrote this letter?

Odd that it just contains talking points from the party who would like us all to believe they didn't overwhelming support the war in Iraq.


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

asterism said:


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The "surge" was primarily a "money surge" buying off warring factions.  Those chickens are coming home to roost...in Iraq and Afghanistan...

Petraeus and the Myth of the Surge

Progress in Iraq? The surge was not all it was hyped up to be


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## poet (Mar 19, 2013)

FireFly said:


> So the Bush blame game continues. The House voted 297 to 133 & Senate voted 77 to 23 for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq & 74% of us wanted to invade Iraq.
> 
> Gallup Poll Nov 27 2001 showed that 74% of us wanted the US to invade Iraq with ground troops after 9/11.
> 
> ...



Based on lies. You don't yell fire in a crowded theater, and then blame the attendees.


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## tjvh (Mar 19, 2013)

velvtacheeze said:


> 65 more Iraqis who were better off under Saddam.
> 
> Iraq Attacks Across Baghdad Kill 65, Wound Hundreds
> 
> ...



But I thought Obama finished the job in Iraq?


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

tjvh said:


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Nope, Iraq evicted the U.S.  It had that right based on the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated with President George W. Bush.


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## tjvh (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


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And when these same people start blowing stuff up in the United States after crossing our porous borders will that be Bush's fault as well?


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


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So now you're anti-Obama?

How convenient.  You voted for him twice.  He didn't pull out immediately Iraq is yours.  I credit him with the success.  If you see it as a failure it's on your side.


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## FireFly (Mar 19, 2013)

poet said:


> FireFly said:
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> > So the Bush blame game continues. The House voted 297 to 133 & Senate voted 77 to 23 for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq & 74% of us wanted to invade Iraq.
> ...



The same poll was conducted many times before 9/11 & your so called "lies". The majority always wanted to invade Iraq.

"Would you favor or oppose invading Iraq with U.S. ground troops in an attempt to remove Saddam Hussein from power?"

February 21, 2001 - 52% Favor   -  42% Oppose  -  6% No opinion

June 30, 1993  - - -  70% Favor   -  27% Oppose  -  3% No opinion

March 30, 1992 -  -  55% Favor   -  40% Oppose  -  5% No opinion


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## Oldguy (Mar 19, 2013)

Avatar4321 said:


> Lakhota said:
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Google his name.  You'll find all you want.


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

tjvh said:


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Likely, because Bush is the one who inflamed the Middle East and aided al Qaeda recruitment.

America will be living with the aftermath of both Bush presidents for decades to come - maybe centuries.


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## Lakhota (Mar 19, 2013)

> *Ex-CIA Analyst: We Knew Intelligence Was Insufficient For Iraq War*
> 
> Nada Bakos played a key role on the CIA's intelligence team prior to the start of the Iraq War. Now, the former counterterrorism analyst has come out and acknowledged that she was pressured to find a connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda that didn't exist.
> 
> Bakos recently wrote a piece for Wired Magazine about her efforts to make Iraq intelligence seem "less bogus". On HuffPost Live Tuesday, she talked further about the pressures she faced and how she felt the government needed a more valid reason for going to war.



HuffPost Live

I Tried to Make the Intelligence Behind the Iraq War Less Bogus | Danger Room | Wired.com


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## bripat9643 (Mar 19, 2013)

Oldguy said:


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We're discussing people who can talk, who aren't dead.


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## Oldguy (Mar 19, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


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Ok...so using people who ARE dead, like Stevens and Tillman isn't "a cheap political tactic" and the people who do it aren't "the sickest, most cynical kind of people there are?"


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## aaronleland (Mar 19, 2013)

I find it disgusting that both sides only support war when their party is in power. The moment Obama was elected Democrats stopped talking about the war, and Republicans started pretending they never supported it in the first place.


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 19, 2013)

aaronleland said:


> I find it disgusting that both sides only support war when their party is in power. The moment Obama was elected Democrats stopped talking about the war, and Republicans started pretending they never supported it in the first place.



Ive never claimed I haven't supported war at times. I spoke in favor of Afghanistan and Iraq. My problems come with wars such as Libya where it's unclear why we are there and there is no Congressional approval. Or continuing in Afghanistan right now when we have no game plan to win, nor an idea what winning looks like,  and it seems we have accomplished our goals for going over there.


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Likely, because Bush is the one who inflamed the Middle East and aided al Qaeda recruitment.
> 
> America will be living with the aftermath of both Bush presidents for decades to come - maybe centuries.



Yeah because Obama hasnt done a thing to destablize the region...


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

Lakhota said:


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If you think the Middle East wasn't inflamed before 2003 you just weren't paying attention.

snopes.com: Weapons of Mass Destruction Quotes


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

> "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
> --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
> 
> "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
> ...



All are verified at the Snopes link above.


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## asterism (Mar 19, 2013)

aaronleland said:


> I find it disgusting that both sides only support war when their party is in power. The moment Obama was elected Democrats stopped talking about the war, and Republicans started pretending they never supported it in the first place.



I have always supported Obama's war effort.  It's the only thing he got right.


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## DaGoose (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> aaronleland said:
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> > I find it disgusting that both sides only support war when their party is in power. The moment Obama was elected Democrats stopped talking about the war, and Republicans started pretending they never supported it in the first place.
> ...



The only thing Bush was critisized for was his foolish invasion and occupation of Iraq. That was when he started saying he didn't care abour Bin Laden and really wasn't concerned about him. 

Did Saddam have chemical weapons at one time? Of course. Because Ronald Wilson Reagan sold them to him. 

But it's also a fact that Iraq was not a threat to anyone least of all us and it turned out that the critics of the Iraq War were right all along. 

And the Neo-Cons are always saying that they support our troops. Yet if one of them dare critisize an unjust war that eventually killed him they are ready to say, "Fuck that soldier". 

Well fuck you too.


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## DaGoose (Mar 20, 2013)

FireFly said:


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Good to know that you think the POTUS should govern by opinion polls. 

So I'm guessing that you think Gore should have been elected since he received more votes than Bush?


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## DaGoose (Mar 20, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> People have their own opinions.  How quickly we forget the thousands of Kurdish people who Saddam tested chemical weapons on or the countless number of political prisoners who were tortured.  Perhaps I will one day forget the bodies of children who were murdered as a warning to the parents who were the wrong religion.   Yes lets defend the Arabs who bombed playgrounds in order to exercise their will.
> 
> Cowards downplay the role we served in Iraq.  Was it pretty? No and war never is.  But they have a chance at freedom.  Mistakes were made I will admit but right now the average Iraqi is thankful we came and liberated them.  You news jockeys are pathetic looking for an angle from msn or huffpost.  Want a real perspective?  Enlist.



Was it worth nearly 5000 dead American soldiers?

There are countless nations that are slaughtering their own people RIGHT NOW. Maybe we should start invading all of them? When does it stop? 

And you say to get a REAL perspective you should enlist? The soldier in the OP did and now the Neo-Cons are sticking his service up his ass.


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> Lakhota said:
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Sounds to me like he's mad because he realizes he was duped. He signed up to fight those who declared war on uson 9/11, but instead, was used as a pawn to fight an unecessary war of choice againts those who were not even involved in 9/11.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

DaGoose said:


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We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.  I'm glad to live in a post-Saddam world, where we get to theorize about how bad he might have been.  Having been the first of two brothers to be in Kurdistan, I'm glad he's gone.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

DaGoose said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > People have their own opinions.  How quickly we forget the thousands of Kurdish people who Saddam tested chemical weapons on or the countless number of political prisoners who were tortured.  Perhaps I will one day forget the bodies of children who were murdered as a warning to the parents who were the wrong religion.   Yes lets defend the Arabs who bombed playgrounds in order to exercise their will.
> ...



Not having the resources, manpower, and will to stop all evil does not negate the virtue of that which we did.


----------



## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



To be fair, he's committing suicide.  Tragic, but not an excuse to condemn a valid response to a cease-fire breach.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor.  My Dad's Uncle was pissed that he got shot in Italy.  To the day he died he said the Cold War wouldn't have happened if we had just dropped nukes on Japan first.


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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. President said:
> ...



Cease-fire breach?  Saddam was contained between the Northern and Southern No-Fly Zones after Bush 41 suckered him into invading Kuwait.  Saddam routinely violated (tested) the No-Fly Zones during the Clinton Administration - but Clinton never invaded Iraq and toppled Baghdad.  In fact, Saddam just gave our military pilots some real target practice.

As Colin Powell famously stated - "You break it, you own it".  George W. Bush broke it based on lies.


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## DaGoose (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



History has already shown that Saddam had a stabilizing effect on the Middle East. He's about the only one who kept Iran in check. No doubt that Saddam was a bastard. We should have known that when Reagan helped put him in power and armed him to the teeth to hold Iran in check.

Not one of our soldiers should have been in Iraq, let alone the nearly 5000 that were killed there and will never return to their families. And for what? Just because Bush all but came out and said it was a direct attack from Iraq? Never again should we EVER invade a nation that poses no threat to our national security. 

That's why websites like the following were created.....

Iraq Veterans Against the War | You are not alone


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## auditor0007 (Mar 20, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
> ...



As much as it is true that the vast majority of Americans supported the Iraq War in the beginning, the evidence proved out that we had no business being there.  Our leaders failed us miserably on this one, and it is important to acknowledge that so we don't make the same mistake again in the future.  The truth is that Viet Nam, Iraq, and even Afghanistan have all been massive debacles that in the end did nothing to make Americans safer.  That is the important lesson to be learned.  We killed hundreds of thousands for nothing.  We tens of thousands of our own sons and daughters to their deaths for absolutely nothing.  

I'm not one to call for war crimes against our leaders, because things really are more complicated and what was done was in a state of war.  That being said, if we aren't intelligent enough to now admit that these wars have all been massive cluster fucks, then we have not learned a single thing and are destined to make the same mistake over and over again.  This is not a political issue; it is a moral issue and it really should not be influenced by political beliefs.


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## poet (Mar 20, 2013)

DaGoose said:


> FireFly said:
> 
> 
> > poet said:
> ...



Absolutely. Why do you suppose Bush is attributed with having "stole" the election in 2000?


----------



## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

Thank you, DaGoose, for the following website:

Iraq Veterans Against the War | You are not alone


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. President said:
> ...



Umm, the main reason Bush sent troops into Iraq was WMD, not breaching the cease fire.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



Clinton's failure to enforce the cease-fire didn't make that cease-fire go away, especially in a post-9/11 world where terrorists needed willing state sponsors.  Saddam was also quite industrious in forming a coalition to help him profit from the UN Oil For Food program.

You are free to speculate as you wish, in a post-Saddam world.  Lot of things have changed since 2003.  Al Qaeda can't work the "Somalia Strategy" anymore, Iraq is not a backup plan for them, financial transactions are now monitored, and the US is no longer a "paper tiger."

Like it or not, every once in a while the bad guys that want to gain power by claiming we can't beat them need to be shown that they are wrong.  Our President governs under the luxury of knowing his foes have seen that we can defeat them.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

DaGoose said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > DaGoose said:
> ...



Saddam has been dead for 7 years and Iran is still in check.  Looks like that theory was wrong.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 20, 2013)

OBL masterminded the attack on the WTC on 9/11.

OBL was a member of the Taliban, and they were the terrorist group in charge of the attack on the U.S.

Saddam hated the Taliban, and he never cooperated with them for anything.  Matter of fact, it was because of Saddam that the Taliban stayed out of Iraq.

Jr. hated Saddam for the way he'd treated his dad, and he also wanted the oil that was in Iraq.

Jr. and his cronies made up bullshit to somehow blame Saddam and his cooperation with the Taliban for 9/11 so that he'd have a good reason to invade Iraq.

Jr. also let OBL slip through his fingers, and OBL stayed free while Jr. was in office.

Face it.....................the Iraq war was one we shouldn't have fought.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



That's your opinion.

That said...


Chemical Weapons, Iranian Agents and Massive Death Tolls Exposed in WikiLeaks' Iraq Docs | Danger Room | Wired.com


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. President said:
> ...



Pearl Harbor got us into the war in the Pacific. Germany, which was allied with Italy, got us into the war in Europe.

Whereas Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, the attack which inspired patriots to enlist to defend America from the motherfuckers who were involved in that dasterdly attack.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> OBL masterminded the attack on the WTC on 9/11.
> 
> OBL was a member of the Taliban, and they were the terrorist group in charge of the attack on the U.S.
> 
> ...



Except, Saddam allowed Zarqawi to set up a base in Kurdistan (thereby providing cover, saying that it wasn't him) and Saddam made overtures to Bin Laden to relocate to Iraq.

"The enemy of my enemy is my brother"


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



We attacked Europe before we did anything substantial against Japan.


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...


Wrong. That is not my opinion. That is Bush's opinion. He himself said the main reason he sent troops into Iraq was over WMD.

So you can cite the cease fire all you want, it will never alter the fact that the main reason Bush deployed troops in Iraq was over WMD.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > OBL masterminded the attack on the WTC on 9/11.
> ...



Got a link to back up either the base in Kurdistan for Zarqawi or that Saddam offered to relocate Bin Laden to Iraq?

Because.................last I heard, OBL considered Saddam to be a heretic and didn't care that much for him at all.

Besides................if he was offered a chance to relocate to Iraq, why did he relocate to Pakistan?


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...





> Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
> Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;
> 
> Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;
> ...



Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...


Which has what to do with what I posted?


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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

Bush is the baby daddy...


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



That doesn't identify the main reason Bush sent troops into Iraq.

Bush announced what the main reason was ... and it was WMD, not the cease fire.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



Saddam&#39;s Ties To Al Queda - Sam Pender - Google Books

TIMELINE: Zarqawi's road to perdition. - TIME


Why did Bin Laden relocate to Pakistan?  He was more concerned with his own survival.  He hid.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



Japan attacked us in WWII, we invaded German controlled territory then Japan.

Al Qaeda attacked us in GWII.  We invaded Iraq first.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



As I said, that's your opinion.  The cease-fire is mentioned first in the legislation.


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



Again, Germany also attacked us, which is what got us into the war in Europe.

Iraq did not attack us. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



Not sure if I'm gonna trust a book that someone wrote, because it could be written from a right wing type looking to prove their point with bullshit, smoke and mirrors.

As far as your TIME link?  It doesn't say anything about him getting help from Saddam, it says that he got help from other local terrorist groups (not Saddam) in relocating to Iraq.

Remember.................illegals get help relocating here to the U.S., but we still try to find them and get rid of them if possible.  I don't really think Saddam was helping Zarqawi.


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...


And as I said, you're wrong, it's not my opinion, it's George Bush's opinion. I'm merely conveying to you what he said.

Are you under the opinion that George Bush doesn't know the main reason for why he deployed troops into Iraq??


----------



## Wicked Jester (Mar 20, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...


And if he had said the exact opposite in his letter, your sorry ass, along with most of your liberal brethren up here, would have been bashing him incessently......And don't even try and deny it.

Bottom line, he's entitled to his opinion....as we all are, right or wrong......But don't sit up here trying to express your phoney outrage, as if you actually give a shit about the author of that letter....You exposed yourself looooong ago, lil' man.


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



Iraq broke the cease fire and we knew that Iraq was the next best alternative for Bin Laden after Afghanistan.  Iraq was identified as the "nexus of terrorism."  That prediction came true when Zarqawi fled Afghanistan after being routed by US Special Operations types and relocated to Iraq.


I think the ignorance of Middle Eastern and Arab dynamics is what fuels lots of lefties in their continued resistance to the facts that President Obama certainly has acknowledged.  Otherwise Obama would have done something different once he got in power right?

What did Obama do differently than which Bush proposed?


----------



## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



The record is clear.  It's right there in the legislation.


----------



## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

> Year-by-year, month-by-month, now even day-to-day, we're treated to a different rationale for the Iraq war from a different President George W. Bush.



Bush's rationale for Iraq war keeps changing | McClatchy


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## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



Well then you can do your own research.  You asked for links and I gave you unbiased links.

You either believe that Saddam couldn't control what went on within his borders or you don't.  Halabja proves that he was quite keen on keeping control in Kuridstan.


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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

The Sad Reality of How Warmongers and Elite Media Desperately Avoid All Responsibility for Iraq Disaster


----------



## asterism (Mar 20, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> The Sad Reality of How Warmongers and Elite Media Desperately Avoid All Responsibility for Iraq Disaster



You live in a post-Saddam world.  Millions of young Veterans say you're welcome.


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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > The Sad Reality of How Warmongers and Elite Media Desperately Avoid All Responsibility for Iraq Disaster
> ...



Iraq Veterans Against the War | You are not alone


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



None of that establishes a connection between Iraq and 9/11, which did not actually exist.

So again, the purported vet in the OP was duped. He signed up to fight those who attacked us on 9/11, but was instead used to fight some other war that George Bush *chose* to fight.


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > asterism said:
> ...



The record you cite does not indicate what the main reason for invading Iraq was.

George Bush, who was placed in the position of being the sole person capable of deciding whether or not to go to war with Iraq, has indicated what that main reason was; and according to him, that reason was WMD.

And I note, you didn't address my question ...

*Are you under the opinion that George Bush doesn't know the main reason for why he deployed troops into Iraq?? *


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## Erand7899 (Mar 20, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



Everyone, including dying veterans have the right to express their thoughts, on any subject they so wish to do so.  The simple fact that he is a veteran, or even a dying veteran doesn't give him a dime's worth of extra credibility in his phony rant about war crimes or any illegal war.  All of you left wing loons seem to thrive on drama, and if you can't find it, you make it up yourselves.


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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

Erand7899 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You mean like Benghazi and all the other Obama conspiracy theories?

The Debunker's Guide to Obama Conspiracy Theories


----------



## Wicked Jester (Mar 20, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Erand7899 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...


Do you actually believe that anybody, beyond your fellow whackjobs, actually reads ANY links you provide, seeing as though they all involve links to the loony liberal bullshit you actually believe?

Too fuckin' funny!


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Erand7899 said:
> ...


Well somebody's reading them given that of those polled, 56% now believe it was a mistake to send troops to Iraq, but Liberals only comprise about 20% of the population.


----------



## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)




----------



## velvtacheeze (Mar 20, 2013)

tjvh said:


> velvtacheeze said:
> 
> 
> > 65 more Iraqis who were better off under Saddam.
> ...



He did. He was hired to end that stupid, useless war, and he did it.  It's why he won in 2008 and 2012.  Conservatives haven't learned a thing from their failed Iraq War.


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## velvtacheeze (Mar 20, 2013)

asterism said:


> velvtacheeze said:
> 
> 
> > Conservatives,  tell the board about the lessons you've learned from your mistakes, especially the Iraq War.  I'd like to hear why you now know that your bellicose position made the US and Iraq worse off.  What's it like knowing that liberals were right all along?  After losing two Presidential elections in a row because of your mistakes, what would you have done differently?
> ...



You haven't learned a thing.  Your oafish plan would have led to more US deaths, a sloppier withdrawal, and an Iraqi military without any leadership, since there would not have been enough supportive Iraqi leaders to lead it.  

The GOP has lost two Presidential elections in a row because the American people do not trust the party with power, and it's the fault of conservatives who support the Iraq War to this very day. 

The correct answer you should have given is "The Iraq War was a huge mistake, all US deaths were in vain, the GOP is almost entirely to blame, Bush & Cheney are war criminals, and we will not repeat the mistake again."


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## jknowgood (Mar 20, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...



I'm sure you would say the same if a vet wrote the same letter to obama? Writing it to him because he didn't keep his promise to end the iraq war in his first year. No, i'm sure you would call him names or ignore him.


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## IlarMeilyr (Mar 20, 2013)

velvtacheeze said:


> There is a good reason why neither Bush nor Cheney leave the US: They are afraid of arrest for their war crimes.  Good.  They should be.


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 20, 2013)

FireFly said:


> So the Bush blame game continues. The House voted 297 to 133 & Senate voted 77 to 23 for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq & 74% of us wanted to invade Iraq.
> 
> Gallup Poll Nov 27 2001 showed that 74% of us wanted the US to invade Iraq with ground troops after 9/11.
> 
> ...


Congress didn't authorize an invasion with the passage of that bill.  They set conditions, which Bush ignored.



> _A careful reading of the Authorization for the Use of Force adopted by large bipartisan majorities in both the House and Senate shows the congressional authorization *was hardly the "blank check" the news media portrayed it as. *Congress limited the President's use of military force against Iraq by authorizing war only to:
> 
> *(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq, and
> 
> (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq."*​The use of the word "and" after the first paragraph is critical.  While Congress did not require an imminent or immediate threat, *it was not prepared to authorize the President to go to war over a violation of a Security Council Resolution involving WMDs unless there was also some likelihood that if left unchecked, Saddam would present a "continuing threat" *of using those weapons against the United States in the foreseeable future._


Iraq was not (and never has been) a threat to our national security.



FireFly said:


> *So was Bush supposed to go against the will of the people?*


Will of the people?

The Iraq anti-war rally in 2003 was the largest anti-war protest in history 
involving millions of protestors in over 15 country's.  The Washington rally 
alone, attracted over 400,000 people.








In contrast, the pro-war rally that day, attracted only 400 people.







Will of the people my ass!


----------



## Billo_Really (Mar 20, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Thank you for what, writing a letter that is nothing more than a collection of Democrat talking points to President Bush?  I would think he could think of better things to do with the last few days of his life than serve as a propaganda tool for the Democrat Party.


You are prima facia evidence that right-wing support of the troops is a myth!


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## bodecea (Mar 20, 2013)

jknowgood said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



IF we have such a letter, it should be posted so we can read it, don't you think?


----------



## KissMy (Mar 20, 2013)

FireFly said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Charts: Bush Lowballed Us on Iraq by $6 Trillion | Mother Jones
> ...



 The lying liberals keep on trying to ad interest to a war that turned a huge profit as it was fought.


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



If you think this guy gives a damn about political points than you are even stupider than I always thought you were. And save the cussing and insults. I've heard it so much that I wish you'd get some new material. Know it by heart.


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## Rinata (Mar 20, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
> 
> Chris Hedges: The Crucifixion of Tomas Young - Chris Hedges' Columns - Truthdig
> 
> Truthdig - The Forgotten Wounded of Iraq



That was very touching, Lakhota. The picture in my avi is my brother in Vietrnam. Another stupid war. 

Seems as though my generation was to be haunted by these stupid wars. My brother was in Vietnam and my son was in Iraq. But we were so lucky. So many families were not.

Thanks for posting this.


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## dblack (Mar 20, 2013)

All this sort of leaves me wondering why liberals, or perhaps I should say 'loyal Democrats', are so willing to turn a blind eye to Obama's militarism. Will you all be with us if and when he tries to sell a war with Iran? N. Korea? Syria? Venezuela?


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## Lonestar_logic (Mar 20, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Black_Label said:
> ...



I assume you have proof. Let's see it!


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## Wicked Jester (Mar 20, 2013)

Funny thing about Lakhota, is that he trashed a group of NAVY SEALS who dared to speak out against Obama, going so far as to call them un-american.

He did the same to a SEAL who wrote a book about the bin-Laden raid.

In fact, several other lib posters on this board did the same

It truly is bizarre how the liberal mind works......Particularly the loony Obamabot mind/s.


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## LogikAndReazon (Mar 20, 2013)

The Iraq conflict is still so confusing for poor, dumb, liberal, adolescents..............

What we really needed was more time for weapons inspectors, multi-lateral sanctions, and international arrest warrants for islamo-fascist jihadists.........To keep us "safe".......lol


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## Katzndogz (Mar 20, 2013)

The guy looks and sounds like a typical occupy wall street protester.   The fact that he is dying does not confer any particular nobility, nor truthfulness.


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## boilermaker55 (Mar 20, 2013)

Maybe if you are to ignorant to read perhaps your listening skills may be a little less sub par than your comprehension.
JUST FOR YOU! 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovdIiSE8T8]Dick Cheney on Iraq - YouTube[/ame]
But if you need further information about this assh*le. Here.
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/cheneymeetthepress.htm



bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
> ...


----------



## boilermaker55 (Mar 20, 2013)

So your stupid f*cking answer is to send in the military , to kill US soldiers, and then deny them care they should receive.
Put your f*cking army fatigues on assmunch and grab your sacred ar-15 and put your skinny chicken shit ass on the front lines.
DUMB F*CK



LogikAndReazon said:


> The Iraq conflict is still so confusing for poor, dumb, liberal, adolescents..............
> 
> What we really needed was more time for weapons inspectors, multi-lateral sanctions, and international arrest warrants for islamo-fascist jihadists.........To keep us "safe".......lol


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## LogikAndReazon (Mar 20, 2013)

Surely the message was misdirected...........

Its intended audience were pussified progressive dupes like cindy sheehan...........


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## Oldguy (Mar 20, 2013)

dblack said:


> All this sort of leaves me wondering why liberals, or perhaps I should say 'loyal Democrats', are so willing to turn a blind eye to Obama's militarism. Will you all be with us if and when he tries to sell a war with Iran? N. Korea? Syria? Venezuela?




Which sort of leaves me wondering why conservatives, or perhaps I should say "loyal Republicans," were so willing to turn a blind eye to Bushs' militarism.

If it's good for the goose, why not the gander as well?


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## dblack (Mar 20, 2013)

Oldguy said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > All this sort of leaves me wondering why liberals, or perhaps I should say 'loyal Democrats', are so willing to turn a blind eye to Obama's militarism. Will you all be with us if and when he tries to sell a war with Iran? N. Korea? Syria? Venezuela?
> ...



It's not good for either. That's the point.


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 20, 2013)




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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)




----------



## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

> On the 10th anniversary of Iraq we're about to make the same mistakes in Syriathat could plummet us into another bloody conflict, writes Leslie H. Gelb.



So, You Want Another War? - The Daily Beast


----------



## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

And the Most Outrageous Neocon Iraq War Anniversary Remark Is... | Mother Jones


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## Antares (Mar 20, 2013)

Shut up dumb fuck, those are the REAL vote totals.
Deal with it YOUR people authorized it.



Lakhota said:


> FireFly said:
> 
> 
> > So the Bush blame game continues. The House voted 297 to 133 & Senate voted 77 to 23 for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq & 74% of us wanted to invade Iraq.
> ...


----------



## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

Roo said:


> Shut up dumb fuck, those are the REAL vote totals.
> Deal with it YOUR people authorized it.
> 
> 
> ...



First of all, though many Democrat voted for it, most Democrats in Congress voted against it. Regardless, they were not voting on a declaration of war, they were voting to authorize Bush the ability to resort to war if certain conditions were met -- based on Bush's sole discretion. And if you recall at the time they voted, Bush was insisting that going to war was a last resort that he was trying to avoid at all costs.

Turns out, he was lying. He really wanted to go to war, and the Congress handed him the authority to do so.


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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

Faun said:


> Roo said:
> 
> 
> > Shut up dumb fuck, those are the REAL vote totals.
> ...



Exactly.


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## Lakhota (Mar 20, 2013)

The Downing Street Memos


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## Esmeralda (Mar 20, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
> ...



Why are you demeaning a US soldier who has given his life for your country?
Iraq War vet pens 'last letter' to Bush and Cheney


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## GWV5903 (Mar 20, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...




He opened the door when he went public, is it that complicated for you...


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## Faun (Mar 20, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...


For one reason and one reason only ... because the letter was directed to Republicans, George Bush and Dick Cheney.

You can be certain had that letter been address to Barack Obama, he'd be using that letter like a condom to fuck the president.


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## yidnar (Mar 20, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Lakhota said:
> ...


yes he has earned the right !! even though i do not agree with him he has fought for his country and protected the freedoms that allow people to express themselves !! even some one like  Lakhota  who hates white men like him, owe your freedom to men past and present like him !!


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 21, 2013)

Faun said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



If that letter had been addressed to Obama, he'd use that like a condom to fuck the president?

Really?

Even if Obama was the President?

Why would he want to fuck himself?


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## Faun (Mar 21, 2013)

ABikerSailor said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


I'm not sure who you think I was talking about when I said, "he'd," but it wasn't Barack Obama.


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## Lakhota (Mar 21, 2013)

> On the 10-year anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, people around the world publicly aired their grievances against members of former President George W. Bush's administration .
> 
> Gawker played a controversial and direct role in the process, publishing Bush's personal email address -- pulled from a screengrab of a hacked email between Bush and his sister released last month -- in a Tuesday post titled "Wish George W. Bush a Happy Iraq War Day."



Bush Administration Officials Face Public Shaming On 10th Anniversary Of Iraq War


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## Lakhota (Mar 21, 2013)

> Rachel Maddow broke from her usual even-handed tone on Tuesday night, and even went so far as to say that she was "pissed" over the way veterans have been treated in this country upon returning home.
> 
> Maddow was talking about several scams where supposed charities were actually stealing donations intended for veterans. Former Florida Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll recently resigned after one of her public relations firm's clients was revealed to be one such scam. A former aide to Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker was also convicted of embezzling money from Operation Freedom, a fund for families of American troops who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, to fund his vacations.



More: Rachel Maddow 'Pissed' Over How Veterans Are Treated (VIDEO)


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## Esmeralda (Mar 21, 2013)

IlarMeilyr said:


> velvtacheeze said:
> 
> 
> > There is a good reason why neither Bush nor Cheney leave the US: They are afraid of arrest for their war crimes.  Good.  They should be.



Actually it's true.  Bush was scheduled to make a speech at some event in Switzerland and they had to uninvite him because his coming to Switzerland was going to cause a lot of protests and create such instability, they didn't want to deal with it.   People in other parts of the worls LOATH the man and think he has commited crimes against humanity.


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## Esmeralda (Mar 21, 2013)

LogikAndReazon said:


> Poor, confused, drug adled, leftist..........



Another one insulting a soldier who gave his life to serve his country.


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## IlarMeilyr (Mar 21, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> > velvtacheeze said:
> ...



Actually, it is flatly untrue.

Protests?  Big fuckin' deal.

But arrest?

Not a chance in the universe.


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## Redfish (Mar 21, 2013)

another bullshit thread that attempts to rewrite history.   Everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs.  Congress authorized and funded the stupid Iraq war.

I think most agree that it was a terrible waste of american money and lives, just like viet nam and afghanistan,  but to claim that Bush did it all by himself is nothing but a partisan lie.

No one committed any "war crimes" except Saddam when he gassed his own people.  The guy needed to go but we could have eliminated him without spending so many lives and so much money.


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## Esmeralda (Mar 21, 2013)

IlarMeilyr said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > IlarMeilyr said:
> ...



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/world/europe/06bush.html?_r=0
George Bush calls off trip to Switzerland | Law | The Guardian
Who's Afraid of War Crimes Prosecution? Cheney Cancels Canada Visit | Global Research TV

You apparently can't read either.  I didn't say anything about him being arrested; I said people around the world would like to see him be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity.  How many countries have you been to over the past 10 years?  I've been to 40. I work in an international environment.  I've lived in 4 different countries on several different continents as well as spending considerable time in many other countries, while the Iraq was was going on.  I've worked with, lived with, socialized with and talked to people from at least a hundred different countries.  They all, every single one, loath Bush and most think he is a criminal.


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## IlarMeilyr (Mar 21, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



Look.  I realize you are tragically stupid.  But what you SAID was that "actually it's true."  THAT was in reply to me mocking the claim of velveetacheesedick "They are afraid of arrest for their war crimes. Good. They should be."

So we WERE discussing arrests, you dishonest hack mutant asshole.

And the very notion is ridiculous.

Even a blithering idiot like _you_ ought to be able to see how absurd it is to believe that any nation would permit a former President of the United States to be arrested while visiting another country. 

Try to stay focused on your own conversations, you dip shit.  It will help you to avoid the prospect of confirming just how brainless you are.


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## Trajan (Mar 21, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> > To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
> > From: Tomas Young
> >
> > I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.
> ...


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## Trajan (Mar 21, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, Tomas Young, and best wishes!
> ...



*shrugs* they used Cindy Sheehan like a dishrag and she apparently enjoyed it......


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> another bullshit thread that attempts to rewrite history.   Everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs.  Congress authorized and funded the stupid Iraq war.
> 
> I think most agree that it was a terrible waste of american money and lives, just like viet nam and afghanistan,  but to claim that Bush did it all by himself is nothing but a partisan lie.
> 
> No one committed any "war crimes" except Saddam when he gassed his own people.  The guy needed to go but we could have eliminated him without spending so many lives and so much money.



Jr. didn't do it by himself.  A frat boy like him is too fucking stupid to make things like that happen.

Wanna know who's responsible?  Simple................it's that heartless bastard known as Dick Cheney.

I'd like to see him hung in Spandau.................


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## Wicked Jester (Mar 22, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


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## Sallow (Mar 22, 2013)

IlarMeilyr said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > IlarMeilyr said:
> ...



Basically yeah.

There is no way any other nation is going to arrest an ex president or even vice president of the United States.


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## Sallow (Mar 22, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > IlarMeilyr said:
> ...



Actually..I met some Georgian Mafia Types in Istanbul that thought Bush was a great man.

Go figure.


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## poet (Mar 22, 2013)

Sallow said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
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Betcha they never go back to Europe.


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## Wicked Jester (Mar 22, 2013)

Sallow said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...


Actually..I met some Al Qaeda Terrorist types in Ben Ghazi that expressed their gratitude towards Obama for allowing them to brutally murder 4 Americans.

Go figure.


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## poet (Mar 22, 2013)

wicked jester said:


> sallow said:
> 
> 
> > wicked jester said:
> ...



bs


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## Esmeralda (Mar 22, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > IlarMeilyr said:
> ...



LOL What part do you think I am lying about, how I live and travel or what people think of Bush?  I have, actually, been to 40 countries over the past 10 years, and not for short periods of time.  I travel an average of 16 weeks per year. Also, I have lived and worked in 4 different countries over the past 10 years: my job is international, and the people I work with are international.  I've never met someone from another country who admires Bush.  Not one. And I don't bring up politics. Because my job is international, and I deal with people from all over the world everyday, it can be too sensitive for me to bring up politics, but others do bring it up and when they ascertain they can be frank with me, I learn what they actually think, which is they believe Bush went into Iraq for oil and they believe he is guilty of war crimes. Everyone talks to me, I am just that kind of person.  I don't say much, but I am open to listening.  Taxi drivers, waiters, people I meet everywhere I go from all walks of life and people I work with and befriend.  I have never met anyone from another country who admires Bush; in fact, they despise him.  That is why the Nobel people went a little crazy and gave the prize to Obama, it was out of such relief the world was done with Bush.  The world breathed a cumulative sigh of relief when Bush's presidency ended.


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## IlarMeilyr (Mar 22, 2013)

Sallow said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



That's my point.  There is no doubt that -- like lots of a certain type of present day American liberals -- many other people in other nations loathe President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

Reasonable people can debate the proposition that "Booooosh lied" to get us into war.  Even the defenders of President Bush cannot make the claim that he was actually correct in everything he said.  Indeed, I even acknowledge that the way he spoke was deficient in terms of clarity and purpose.  

I have no doubt that if the former President and Vice President were to go to certain nations in Europe, there would be orchestrated protests.

But the prospect that any such nation's government would even consider allowing anybody to "arrest" the former American President or Vice President is just ridiculous.


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## Lakhota (Mar 22, 2013)

Andrew Bacevich Attacks Iraq War Architect Paul Wolfowitz In Open Letter


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## poet (Mar 22, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> Andrew Bacevich Attacks Iraq War Architect Paul Wolfowitz In Open Letter



Hardball with Chris Matthews

?Hubris? documentary ? MSNBC


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## Lakhota (Mar 24, 2013)

Washington Post Defends Not Running Article On Iraq Media Failure


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## Lakhota (Mar 25, 2013)

> The true purpose of the Iraq invasion remains opaque. Here's a theory why.



Have We Ever Gotten to the Bottom of Exactly 'Why' Bush and the Neocons Disastrously Invaded Iraq?


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## ABikerSailor (Mar 25, 2013)

Hate to tell you, but the NRA is never going to be part of the solution, they're nothing more than lobbyists for the gun makers.

Why else do you think they keep trying to scare you about the chances of your house being invaded, or that you may be taken over by the government?  If you're not scared, you're not gonna buy a gun.

LaPierre is one of the stupidest humans currently on the planet.


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## Lakhota (Mar 26, 2013)

> Rage Against the Machine guitarist Tom Morello is backing his good friend and speaking out against the U.S. involvement in Iraq.
> 
> "There's nothing more courageous than a soldier who stands up against an unjust war," Morello added. "And in that regard, Tomas Young is not just a war hero  he's a real peace hero . . .



Tom Morello On Iraq: Rage Against The Machine Guitarist Calls War 'Unjust'


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## Wicked Jester (Mar 26, 2013)

Lakhota said:


> > Rage Against the Machine guitarist Tom Morello is backing his good friend and speaking out against the U.S. involvement in Iraq.
> >
> > "There's nothing more courageous than a soldier who stands up against an unjust war," Morello added. "And in that regard, Tomas Young is not just a war hero  he's a real peace hero . . .
> 
> ...


Leave it to Lakhota to throw up abject bullshit from an avowed communist piece o' shit.

Seriously, do you think that anybody, besides your handful of fellow idiots up here, actually takes ANYTHING you post seriously?

Tom Morrello?......Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!

Thanks for yet another laugh, Buddy!


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## Lakhota (Mar 26, 2013)

> *My country has no future*
> 
> Ten years after the U.S. invasion, Iraq is a failed state teetering on the brink of another sectarian bloodbath.



My country has no future


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## georgephillip (Apr 1, 2013)

"The power elite, especially the liberal elite, has always been willing to sacrifice integrity and truth for power, personal advancement, foundation grants, awards, tenured professorships, columns, book contracts, television appearances, generous lecture fees and social status."

As long as PROFIT$ are made from the mass murder of civilians, there will be no shortage of "patriotic" enablers, both liberal and conservative, since they all worship the same god$.

Chris Hedges: The Treason of the Intellectuals - Chris Hedges' Columns - Truthdig


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## Faun (Apr 1, 2013)

Have Bush or Cheney left the country since leaving office?


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 2, 2013)

Faun said:


> Have Bush or Cheney left the country since leaving office?



Nope...................they're scared of being arrested as war criminals in other countries.

Canada, and the Cayman Islands (where they store their money) are pretty much it.  Canada because they won't prosecute them, and the Caymans because they don't care if you're a thief or not.


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## poet (Apr 2, 2013)

Faun said:


> Have Bush or Cheney left the country since leaving office?



They don't dare.


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## Lakhota (Apr 25, 2013)

WATCH: Dying Iraq Vet Delivers Powerful Statement About Bush


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 25, 2013)

The Bush Jr. presidency is the only one out of more than 40 where there is debate as to whether the President or Vice President was more evil.  That's a very sad state of affairs if you ask me...


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 26, 2013)

TheOldSchool said:


> The Bush Jr. presidency is the only one out of more than 40 where there is debate as to whether the President or Vice President was more evil.  That's a very sad state of affairs if you ask me...



Actually............it was the VP that was the most evil.  The president was some idiot who was easily controlled, which is why the VP was the most evil.

Cheney actually controlled Jr.


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## Wicked Jester (Apr 26, 2013)

Christ, liberals are fuckin' idiots!


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## poet (Apr 26, 2013)

Wicked Jester said:


> Christ, liberals are fuckin' idiots!



LOL. How would you know?


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## aplcr0331 (Apr 26, 2013)

Bush travels to Zambia, Botswana to raise cancer awareness - CNN.com

"Former President George W. Bush is visiting Zambia to promote a health initiative that focuses on cervical and breast cancer prevention and treatment"

Yeah, he sure looks like a running scared war criminal.








Then there's this:

'To know President George W. Bush is to like him,' Obama says at library dedication


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