# The Space Shuttle Landed This Morning



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 20, 2011)

As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.

I can't wait until this Marxist motherfucker is booted out of the WH.

Clear Forecast for Final Shuttle Landing - weather.com


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> 
> I can't wait until this Marxist motherfucker is booted out of the WH.
> 
> Clear Forecast for Final Shuttle Landing - weather.com


Yeah he thought it more prudent to make NASA employees make muslims feel better about themselves.

*Obama Gives NASA a New Mission*< July 5th 2010

I remember when the first moon mission went off, I was able to see it go up from my vantage point here in Florida where I have most missions when I was home and not stationed elsewhere (USAF).

I share your sentiments.


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## Care4all (Jul 20, 2011)

The T said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> ...


the shuttle shut down has been planned since 2004....why are you all blaming obama for this instead of Bush????


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## daveman (Jul 20, 2011)

Obama sure is anti-science, isn't he?


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## Conservative (Jul 20, 2011)

The problem is not the shuttle program shutting down. It's 30+ years old now, well past it's useful and SAFE lifespan. It needed to be shut down.

The problem is not funding the replacement, and cutting funding for NASA and the program in general.


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## ogibillm (Jul 20, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> 
> I can't wait until this Marxist motherfucker is booted out of the WH.
> 
> Clear Forecast for Final Shuttle Landing - weather.com



you really have no clue, do you?

the shuttle program has run it's course. the decision to nix it was made before obama took office.

granted, you might be able to lay a little of the blame for not having a ready replacement at his feet - he has after all reduced their funding - but then again i doubt it would take a very long search to come up with quote after quote complaining about the spending obama has done

so make up your fucking mind. that or come out and just be honest - you'll hate obama no matter what he does - even if he isn't the one that did it.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 20, 2011)

Care4all said:


> The T said:
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As previously posted, Bush cancelled the Shuttle because of design flaws and ordered replacements.

Obama cancelled the replacements and left us without a manned space program.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 20, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> ...



Bush cancelled the Shuttle after the Columbia investigation discovered design flaws and he ordered a replacement,

Obama killed all the replacements.

It's 100% Obama's fault we no longer have a manned space program and will have to beg the Russians to hitch a ride.


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

Care4all said:


> The T said:
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Did you bother to READ the link I fronted? As a matter of course you didn't.


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## Douger (Jul 20, 2011)

Don't fret. Lot's of other countries are developing as you implode. BRIC can handle the space program.
You guys keep oil hunting.


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

Douger said:


> Don't fret. Lot's of other countries are developing as you implode. BRIC can handle the space program.
> You guys keep oil hunting.


Get the Hell out of here Communist.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 20, 2011)

Douger said:


> Don't fret. Lot's of other countries are developing as you implode. BRIC can handle the space program.
> You guys keep oil hunting.



Except we're not "imploding", we're being sabotaged.


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## Momanohedhunter (Jul 20, 2011)

Conservative said:


> The problem is not the shuttle program shutting down. It's 30+ years old now, well past it's useful and SAFE lifespan. It needed to be shut down.
> 
> The problem is not funding the replacement, and cutting funding for NASA and the program in general.



True. Lots of folks lost jobs at NASA , and the community around the space center has taken some hard financial hits because of this. Wonder if its the same at Cape Canaveral ?


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## kiwiman127 (Jul 20, 2011)

There is in a serious economic situation with this country, the right has rightfully demanded cuts.  The right has no problem making the middle class and poor sacrifice, which by the way is masses of people.  Yet the right only wants "people cuts" and not cuts that don't effect the general public.
I call that morally bankrupt.


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Douger said:
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> > Don't fret. Lot's of other countries are developing as you implode. BRIC can handle the space program.
> ...


Exactly. 

As a matter of course Frank? Where I live? Down the Road? We have one of a few certified 'Spaceports' for Civilian enterprise into continued Space exploration...

Have a Look *HERE*


Companies as *SPACEX* might fill the void.

Worth a look...


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## Momanohedhunter (Jul 20, 2011)

kiwiman127 said:


> There is in a serious economic situation with this country, the right has rightfully demanded cuts.  The right has no problem making the middle class and poor sacrifice, which by the way is masses of people.  Yet the right only wants "people cuts" and not cuts that don't effect the general public.
> I call that morally bankrupt.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 20, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> 
> I can't wait until this Marxist motherfucker is booted out of the WH.
> 
> Clear Forecast for Final Shuttle Landing - weather.com



As someone who has worked on a number of space programs, both NASA and DOD, I regret the "demise" of many space projects too.  Leftwingers don't "do" space.  Having said that, the shuttle and space station were disappointments.  The space station was basically a big boondoggle that had little to do with exploration.  The shuttle never lived up to expectations, and had two catastrophic disasters, ultimately due to poor management.  The shuttle crews were balanced for racial/gender Pee See, and frequently their missions seemed to be PR stunts, with some crew members little more than "passengers".  Compare that to 42 years ago, almost half a century gone, when the US landed on the moon!


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## Momanohedhunter (Jul 20, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> ...



Maybe in a few years, after Russia and China dominate space exploration there will be a massive push to exceed there programs. Kind of a new "space race". That would be cool.


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## Moonglow (Jul 20, 2011)

love the hate talk, those that do not understand even what NASA's mission is and future plans are . Look at the current missions, you will see a great amount of activity to support future missions.

NASA - Current Missions


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

Momanohedhunter said:


> Patrick2 said:
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Don't you love that from now until......?

WE will have to pay the Soviets or the ESA to shuttle stuff up there?

Civilian transport for me is the way to go. They will be even far more efficient. And after all? The US Government had to go to the private sector to get to space in the first place.

The Government after all builds nothing without the private sector.


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## Liability (Jul 20, 2011)

BBC News - The shuttle&#039;s successors


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

Liability said:


> BBC News - The shuttle's successors


 Good find. Private industry! Gotta love it.


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## Moonglow (Jul 20, 2011)

NASA is going to draw private industry to her buy mapping the minerals of the Moon and Mars. Preparing the way for joint govt. and commercial explorations at a profit.


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## Douger (Jul 20, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=player_embedded]&#x202a;SS2 First Feather Flight, Mojave, May 2011_Filmed by The Clay Center Observatory.mov&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

Moonglow said:


> NASA is going to draw private industry to her buy mapping the minerals of the Moon and Mars. Preparing the way for joint govt. and commercial explorations at a profit.


And YOU have a problem with profit motive HOW _exactly?_

_Aren't you a 'progressive' that wants to see the furtherance of the HUMAN condition?_

Of course not. If it doesn't involve politics and one-upmanship to which I have personally seen you engauged in? I might belive you. For Now consider this a request for *YOU* to convince me otherwise.

Ready?

*GO*!


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## Douger (Jul 20, 2011)

Moonglow said:


> NASA is going to draw private industry to her buy mapping the minerals of the Moon and Mars. Preparing the way for joint govt. and commercial explorations at a profit.


OH goodie ! More stuff to fight over.


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## Moonglow (Jul 20, 2011)

The T said:


> Moonglow said:
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> > NASA is going to draw private industry to her buy mapping the minerals of the Moon and Mars. Preparing the way for joint govt. and commercial explorations at a profit.
> ...



eloquence of ignorance, right here folks, more later.


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## Liability (Jul 20, 2011)

Moonglow said:


> The T said:
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Does this mean you will be posting more later?


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## Liability (Jul 20, 2011)

Douger said:


> &#x202a;SS2 First Feather Flight, Mojave, May 2011_Filmed by The Clay Center Observatory.mov&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube



That is one small step, but it is still fun to see it in more or less "real" time.


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## Moonglow (Jul 20, 2011)

gotta go swimmimg brb


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

Liability said:


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Indeed. Means the ignorant fuck had no answer.


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## The T (Jul 20, 2011)

Moonglow said:


> gotta go swimmimg brb


Hopefully you're in Australia and meet up with 'Bruce' off the beach.

Get lost you ignorant ass.


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## Old Rocks (Jul 20, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> 
> I can't wait until this Marxist motherfucker is booted out of the WH.
> 
> Clear Forecast for Final Shuttle Landing - weather.com



I strongly suggest a targeted tax of 1% increase for all those grossing above 50K a year, 2% for all those with an income above 250K a year, and 4% for all making above 1 million. The tax to be levied on all income, whatever the source. To be used only for space exploration. 

If you cannot support that, then you are being fucking hypocritical. You don't get something for nothing.


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## HUGGY (Jul 20, 2011)

*NASA Mission Control, RIP. Killed by Obama*

Really Frankie?  How many scheduled missions were cancelled by Obama?


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

and poof 3,9000 people become instantly unemployed. As soon as they wrap things up in Orlando and Houston that number grows to ten thousand. Way to go obiedoodle now you want the taxpayer to pony up 60Billion to Russia to send one of our guys to the space station. You're so fucking brilliant. 

Why does obama hate America?

merged with existing thread.


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## Sarah G (Jul 21, 2011)

> The decision to cease shuttle flight was made seven years ago, barely a year after the Columbia tragedy. President Barack Obama nixed President George W. Bush's lunar goals, however, opting instead for astronaut expeditions to an asteroid and Mars.
> 
> Last-ditch appeals to keep shuttles flying by such NASA legends as Apollo 11's Neil Armstrong and Mission Control founder Christopher Kraft landed flat.
> 
> ...



We have to move forward at some point.


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## Moving to USA (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Why does obama hate America?



To answer that you would have to read his book, 
 Dreams of my Drunken Sperm Donor.

 I think it all becomes very clear in a hungover fuzzy way.


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

People are so fucking stupid.


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

"_Details of a follow-on program are still pending, but the overall objective is to build new spaceships that can travel beyond the station's 250-mile (400-km) orbit and send astronauts to the moon, asteroids and other destinations in deep space._"


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

G.T. said:


> "_Details of a follow-on program are still pending, but the overall objective is to build new spaceships that can travel beyond the station's 250-mile (400-km) orbit and send astronauts to the moon, asteroids and other destinations in deep space._"



Then why are ten thousand going to be unemployed? Answer me that?


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

Same reason that 10, 000 Horse Carriage makers probably went unemployed @ the invention of the Car. It's not rocket science, pun intended.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

G.T. said:


> Same reason that 10, 000 Horse Carriage makers probably went unemployed @ the invention of the Car. It's not rocket science, pun intended.



that's just silly, why fire ten thousand knowledgeable space workers and engineer's only to train other's. I'm afraid you've been duped.


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## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> > The decision to cease shuttle flight was made seven years ago, barely a year after the Columbia tragedy. President Barack Obama nixed President George W. Bush's lunar goals, however, opting instead for astronaut expeditions to an asteroid and Mars.
> >
> > Last-ditch appeals to keep shuttles flying by such NASA legends as Apollo 11's Neil Armstrong and Mission Control founder Christopher Kraft landed flat.
> >
> ...



So slamming the door accomplishes that?

Right now we cannot repair anything in space unless we beg the Russians. 

Damn security risk.

And let's not forget the brain drain going to other countries beginning today.

Talking about outsourcing jobs.


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

Are you retarded? Serious question.

You're guessing to know what their plan is (hire new instead of from the pool of existing workers) when in reality, you don't know.............yet you still ask this dumbass question. 

Bitter assed lives of most of you saps on here, just come to complain complain complain _*every day*_, jesus h. christ, my GOD


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## Moving to USA (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> G.T. said:
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> > Same reason that 10, 000 Horse Carriage makers probably went unemployed @ the invention of the Car. It's not rocket science, pun intended.
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most of those current people are non minority, they really cant be fired just to fire them.
 Cut the program, fire them, that's legal and acceptable.
 create new program and fill with uneducated minority grant winners that will be unable to do the job. Acceptable.

 What better way to give white peoples jobs away?


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

Moving to USA said:


> WillowTree said:
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Yes you're right just random uneducated people are going to come in and build the farthest flying space vehicles of all time.


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## Moonglow (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> and poof 3,9000 people become instantly unemployed. As soon as they wrap things up in Orlando and Houston that number grows to ten thousand. Way to go obiedoodle now you want the taxpayer to pony up 60Billion to Russia to send one of our guys to the space station. You're so fucking brilliant.
> 
> Why does obama hate America?



there is nothing as worse as to see someone lament and hate for no real reason. The NASA program has other pans in the fire. At least no one died in this journey. The shuttles are old and dangerous.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

G.T. said:


> Are you retarded? Serious question.
> 
> You're guessing to know what their plan is (hire new instead of from the pool of existing workers) when in reality, you don't know.............yet you still ask this dumbass question.
> 
> Bitter assed lives of most of you saps on here, just come to complain complain complain _*every day*_, jesus h. christ, my GOD



No, but it's a fair bet you izzz retarded. Any ordinary person with common walking around sense sees no sense in taking ten thousand American jobs. Then you have to pay them 99 weeks of unemployment. Then if you want to go to the space station you gotta pay the Russians their asking price,, I think right now it's about 60 billion dollars.

why does obama hate America?


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Moonglow said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > and poof 3,9000 people become instantly unemployed. As soon as they wrap things up in Orlando and Houston that number grows to ten thousand. Way to go obiedoodle now you want the taxpayer to pony up 60Billion to Russia to send one of our guys to the space station. You're so fucking brilliant.
> ...



Ten thousand American jobs are down the damn drain.  and you say "hate"


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

You have the mind capacity of a kid in pre-k, jesus christ


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> and poof 3,9000 people become instantly unemployed. As soon as they wrap things up in Orlando and Houston that number grows to ten thousand. Way to go obiedoodle now you want the taxpayer to pony up 60Billion to Russia to send one of our guys to the space station. You're so fucking brilliant.
> 
> Why does obama hate America?





<this was a joke, right?>


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## Sarah G (Jul 21, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Sarah G said:
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> > > The decision to cease shuttle flight was made seven years ago, barely a year after the Columbia tragedy. President Barack Obama nixed President George W. Bush's lunar goals, however, opting instead for astronaut expeditions to an asteroid and Mars.
> ...



They didn't exactly slam the door, you're so dense lately.  The decision was made years ago, muddy.  

You're just a partisan hack.  Those missions were very expensive, maybe even more expensive than the salaries of the employees.  Move along, you have no argument here.  Willow either.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> mudwhistle said:
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don't you just hate that we don't move along when you tell us to move along. indisputable fact. ten thousand unemployed added to the roles of the unemployed and every time we want to go to the space station we have to pay Russia their asking price... you move along. it sucks.


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


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I don't actually believe that to be fact.


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

More fine examples of "small government" conservatarians.

Maybe we should rehire all those old typists as well.  And the folks who repaired the Congressional 8-Track players

Come to think of it, what about the poor stiffs who lit the oil lanterns around the capital each day?  I'm sure they need jobs.


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> and poof 3,9000 people become instantly unemployed. As soon as they wrap things up in Orlando and Houston that number grows to ten thousand. Way to go obiedoodle now you want the taxpayer to pony up 60Billion to Russia to send one of our guys to the space station. You're so fucking brilliant.
> 
> Why does obama hate America?



Why do you insist on blaming Obama for shutting down a 30 year old shuttle program that was already past it's prime? This was 'planned' before Obama was elected. 

Technically, it's just another Bush policy he maintained or continued, you know?

If you want to be pissed at Obama about the other NASA budget and program cuts, I'm right there with you.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Ten thousand more added to the unemployment list.. I suppose I should celebrate that along with you dimocrats.. because it does make obiedoodle look bad donut?


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Ten thousand more added to the unemployment list.. I suppose I should celebrate that along with you dimocrats.. because it does make obiedoodle look bad donut?



Hey, here's an idea.  Tell me what you think:

Maybe the government could hire those people to do other jobs. We could have a jobs program where we pay unemployed Americans like those leaving NASA to do all sorts of infrastructure projects, and they could even put their engineering knowledge to work.  We could hire tens of thousands!


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2011)

Moonglow said:


> there is nothing as worse as to see someone lament and hate for no real reason. The NASA program has other pans in the fire. At least no one died in this journey. *The shuttles are old and dangerous.*



so are the ones they will be using in the meantime........


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > and poof 3,9000 people become instantly unemployed. As soon as they wrap things up in Orlando and Houston that number grows to ten thousand. Way to go obiedoodle now you want the taxpayer to pony up 60Billion to Russia to send one of our guys to the space station. You're so fucking brilliant.
> ...









It happened on his watch. He could have stopped it.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > Ten thousand more added to the unemployment list.. I suppose I should celebrate that along with you dimocrats.. because it does make obiedoodle look bad donut?
> ...



Would be nice wouldn't it. Except obie doodle pissed away all the money he coudda shuddda used for such a program. Now we have no more money.. too bad.  "giggle giggle,, I guess those shovel ready jobs were'nt as shovel ready as we thought huh? giggle giggle smirk smirk"                                        PUKE.


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 21, 2011)

According to conservative principles, this is how you CREATE jobs -

cutting government spending.

It's hilarious to watch rightwingers throw themselves under the bus.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> According to conservative principles, this is how you CREATE jobs -
> 
> cutting government spending.
> 
> It's hilarious to watch rightwingers throw themselves under the bus.



Woe unto you oh hypocrite, these ten thousand will now be increasing government spending ie unemployment checks, only now it will be non productive. that's something you dimocrats love is non productive..


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

Harry Dresden said:


> Moonglow said:
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> > there is nothing as worse as to see someone lament and hate for no real reason. The NASA program has other pans in the fire. At least no one died in this journey. *The shuttles are old and dangerous.*
> ...



The Russian rockets?  When was the last time someone died in a Soyuz capsule?


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> 8537 said:
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lol.... A so-called conservative advocating for a massive government jobs program - all in order to take a cheap shot at Obama.

This is quite possibly the dumbest and most hypocritical thread I've seen on this board.


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


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consider the source


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


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What's the difference in employing Americans and employing 
Russians? Why do you hate America?


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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So you agree, cutting government spending is a job killer, not a job creator.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> WillowTree said:
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What's the difference.. It would be one thing to cut the NASA space program and unemploy ten thousand but quite another to send Russia (thereby employing Russians" 60 Billion to take one astronaut up to our space station. I thought you dimocrats wanted Americans to have jobs. but I see now that was also a lie?


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


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For those keeping score at home, the answer to the above is:  1971.

Claiming that the modules we'll be using "in the meantime" are dangerous is just silly.  They have the best safety record of any long-term manned space vehicle.


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


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The difference is that the Russians can do the same job for about 10% of the cost. That's the difference.

Should NASA break their contract with Soyuz?


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> and poof 3,9000 people become instantly unemployed. As soon as they wrap things up in Orlando and Houston that number grows to ten thousand. Way to go obiedoodle now you want the taxpayer to pony up* 60Billion* to Russia to send one of our guys to the space station. You're so fucking brilliant.
> 
> Why does obama hate America?


its more like 50 million dollars Willow......


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


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You so happy Russians are employed and Americans are unemplyed you just can't stand it..


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## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

how many zeroes seperate Willow's number from the actual number


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


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> > "_Details of a follow-on program are still pending, but the overall objective is to build new spaceships that can travel beyond the station's 250-mile (400-km) orbit and send astronauts to the moon, asteroids and other destinations in deep space._"
> ...



Because, according to ten thousand conservatives I've heard say it,

Government can't do anything right.  

We need smaller government.  

No new taxes.  

14 trillion dollars in debt.  

Trillion dollar deficit.


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


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No, I'm just happy you've been exposed as a complete fucking tool....

again.


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## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


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We don't pay Russia 60B per astronaut.

In fact, we have a 15 seat contract for about 700M.  That's less than 50M / flight.  The Shuttle costs multiples of that just to scrub the toilet.  Oh, and it blows up from time to time.


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


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Willow is a classic example of what I've said many times:

Conservatives don't want smaller government;  they want YOUR government smaller, so there's more to spend on theirs.


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## Jarhead (Jul 21, 2011)

As much as I appreciate the space program, we simply can not afford it right now. I am a science nut and I loved the shuttle missions but even I found them redundant...and extremely costly.

Just as government will need to lay off unecessary employees, the space prrogram must do the same. In both cases it is unfortunate....but things for all of us wont get better until we allow it to first get worse for many of us...

In the meantime, we worked well with other developed nations and they can continue space exploration in our absence...and when we are back on our feet again, I am sure we will be able to join them again...and likely bring it to another level.

Until then, those rocket scientists are going to have to find alternative opportunities....just as other government employees that are found to be unecessary.


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 21, 2011)

This is how Reaganism busted the budget.  They went for huge tax cuts, figuring that all sorts of spending cuts would accompany it, then,

one by one, the special interests - Democrat and Republican - weaseled out of giving up their share of the benefits of the spending,

and kept their pet programs going, and, voila,

triple digit deficits.  

It's no different now.  As you see, even the conservative-est of conservatives squeal like pigs when its their turn to get poked by the knife.


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## Jarhead (Jul 21, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



too generalized a statement....but putting that aside....

Most conservatives...and I include willow in this (without your spin) want government to stop growing as they try to interfere with the lives of the private sector and get back to doing what WE BELIEVE they are supposed to be doing.....things we CAN NOT do for ourselves.

It really is not a difficult thing to understand. You dont have to agree with it...but it really is not that difficult to comprehend.


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > 8537 said:
> ...



So, now we can expect that you libturds will cease and desist bitching cause the Chinese can make things cheaper than Americans.. I'm so glad you finally see the light of day..


----------



## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

Jarhead said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



OK, but Willow is here arguing we need to maintain a massive government program that we don't need and can do "ourselves" for far less money.

That's diametrically opposed to your premise.


----------



## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> 8537 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



If you think I bitch because the Chinese can make things cheaper than we do you clearly don't spend much time reading my posts.

instead, we have you bitching because the Russians can.


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



*So, now we can expect that you libturds will cease and desist bitching cause the Chinese can make things cheaper than Americans.. I'm so glad you finally see the light of day..*


----------



## Jarhead (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Yes...willow and I disagree with this topic. Just as liberals dont agree on everything, neither do conservatives. It does not make one conservative a hypocrite.....it simply means we see certain things differently.
Personally, I am sick and tired of cries of hypocrisy on this forum. All are created eaqual...but thank God not all think exactly alike.
different ideas is what creates progress. Lets not criticize each other for it. Thank each other for it.


----------



## G.T. (Jul 21, 2011)

How many zeroes difference are between Willow's lying, made up number and the *actual* cost to the Russians?

When Bugs says "what a Maroon," it's like, it fits so perfect.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

Maybe some of the highly exhalted "job creators" sitting on mountains of cash will hire them.

But wait, why would they hire a bunch of overpaid Americans when they can go to China or Pakistan or India and pay fraction for the same labor and keep their mountains of cash?


----------



## Seawytch (Jul 21, 2011)

The President is just making way for the Private Sector...isn't that what the conservatives want? The OP's views are so confusing...


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

Not to mention that a lot of those NASA workers are union people. Not just private sector union people but public sector union people; the worst people in the world!

I would think the right would be cheering the fact that 10,000 public sector union workers are losing their jobs.


----------



## auditor0007 (Jul 21, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > > The decision to cease shuttle flight was made seven years ago, barely a year after the Columbia tragedy. President Barack Obama nixed President George W. Bush's lunar goals, however, opting instead for astronaut expeditions to an asteroid and Mars.
> ...



But they are government jobs.  We need to cut spending, remember?  I would think you and Willow would be happy about this.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> Maybe some of the highly exhalted "job creators" sitting on mountains of cash will hire them.
> 
> But wait, why would they hire a bunch of overpaid Americans when they can go to China or Pakistan or India and pay fraction for the same labor and keep their mountains of cash?



I think you have your finger on the problem. 

Thanks to Unions Americans are overpaid and lazy. 

I was a member for 8 years. They never did anything for me other then force us out on strike so the company could remove everything they had gained during collective bargaining. 

Only person the unions help these days is repeat offender employees that normally get fired.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

auditor0007 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



Cutting spending by outsourcing jobs?

I would think there are better ways of cutting spending. 

How bout stop spending $900 bil a year on welfare programs they don't call welfare anymore. Paying the rent and utility bills through HUD for families that won't work. They have AC, cell-phones, flat-panel TVs, nice cars, XBOX360s, etc,.

These people are simply non-productive consumers. 16 Trillion spent on the War On Poverty and the rolls of the poor grew rather then declined.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

Ever wonder why Obama's poll numbers never dip below 40%?

Because 1 out of every 7 Americans collects some sort of govenment assistance. 

40 million Americans. 

Remove all the money it takes to keep Democraps in power and the budget is balanced and the debt shrinks to nothing in 10 years.


----------



## HUGGY (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> The problem is not the shuttle program shutting down. It's 30+ years old now, well past it's useful and SAFE lifespan. It needed to be shut down.
> 
> The problem is not funding the replacement, and cutting funding for NASA and the program in general.



Congress is fully capable of refunding NASA. Shoot the Boner an E-mail.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

Obama does not share the American sense of boldness and adventure that was encapsulated in the space program. He views it as extraterrestrial Colonialism and decide to kill it.


----------



## HUGGY (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Obama does not share the American sense of boldness and adventure that was encapsulated in the space program. He views it as extraterrestrial Colonialism and decide to kill it.



What funded and scheduled mission did Obama cancel?


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe some of the highly exhalted "job creators" sitting on mountains of cash will hire them.
> ...




"Prosperity Through Lower Wages!"


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Obama does not share the American sense of boldness and adventure that was encapsulated in the space program. He views it as extraterrestrial Colonialism and decide to kill it.
> ...



Obama took the American spirit out of the space program and turned it into an AGW Monitoring and Muslin outreach organization.

It will give the Republicans yet another Obama Failure to turn back on him.

Obama May Cancel Space Shuttle Replacement - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News - FOXNews.com


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

auditor0007 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...




We'll be even happier when the jobs numbers come out.. poor obie doodle.


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe some of the highly exhalted "job creators" sitting on mountains of cash will hire them.
> ...






That explains why "Russia can do it for 10% less" I love these conversations I learn so much from them.. Unions... unions unions, and ten thousand jobs are lost to Russia's benefit.. Yay.. you go unions.


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

We pissed away all that gubbmint money on GM and all the while Korea could do it cheaper.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



If you choose to whine about outsourcing then expect someone to lay out the facts for you. 

If you can't handle the truth just Sierra Tango Foxtrot Uniform.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

So so so so sad that we've come to this by having an UnAmerican President.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...




Hey, you're the one who said Americans are overpaid.

If that's how you feel, why not go tell your boss you think you're overpaid and you demand an immediate cut in pay and benefits.

I'm sure he'll be happy to comply.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



They reported 10,000 more job losses then last time the report came out.


----------



## daveman (Jul 21, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> > The decision to cease shuttle flight was made seven years ago, barely a year after the Columbia tragedy. President Barack Obama nixed President George W. Bush's lunar goals, however, opting instead for astronaut expeditions to an asteroid and Mars.
> >
> > Last-ditch appeals to keep shuttles flying by such NASA legends as Apollo 11's Neil Armstrong and Mission Control founder Christopher Kraft landed flat.
> >
> ...


We were going to, but Obama killed the vehicles that were going to replace the shuttle.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

Sarah G said:


> > The decision to cease shuttle flight was made seven years ago, barely a year after the Columbia tragedy. President Barack Obama nixed President George W. Bush's lunar goals, however, opting instead for astronaut expeditions to an asteroid and Mars.
> >
> > Last-ditch appeals to keep shuttles flying by such NASA legends as Apollo 11's Neil Armstrong and Mission Control founder Christopher Kraft landed flat.
> >
> ...



Yes we do, that's why Obama and Progressive need to be booted from office. They brought American Manned Space Program to a screeching halt.

Thank you


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

"This is truly a national loss..."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEjXjfxoNXM]&#x202a;President Ronald Reagan - Address on the Challenger Disaster&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

And I want to say something to the schoolchildren of America who were watching the live coverage of the shuttle's final landing. I know it is hard to understand, but sometimes painful things like this happen. It's all part of the process of exploration and discovery, and we've discovered Democrats and Progressives do not share these uniquely American values. The future doesn't belong to the fainthearted or to Progressives; it belongs to the brave.  See you in 2012

Paraphrasing America's last Great president


----------



## masquerade (Jul 21, 2011)

> Atlantis' landing early Thursday morning marked the end of NASA's 30-year space shuttle program and the beginning of layoffs for the space agency.  On Friday, 1,500 shuttle workers are scheduled to get their pink slips.  By the time all the layoff notices are handed out, a total of 8,000 workers will have been cut.



NASA Layoffs Planned as Space Shuttle Program Ends - Business News - ABC News Radio


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

masquerade said:


> > Atlantis' landing early Thursday morning marked the end of NASA's 30-year space shuttle program and the beginning of layoffs for the space agency.  On Friday, 1,500 shuttle workers are scheduled to get their pink slips.  By the time all the layoff notices are handed out, a total of 8,000 workers will have been cut.
> 
> 
> 
> NASA Layoffs Planned as Space Shuttle Program*Ends - Business News - ABC News Radio



Obama gets to tap dance on the grave of our manned space program


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> > > Atlantis' landing early Thursday morning marked the end of NASA's 30-year space shuttle program and the beginning of layoffs for the space agency.  On Friday, 1,500 shuttle workers are scheduled to get their pink slips.  By the time all the layoff notices are handed out, a total of 8,000 workers will have been cut.
> ...



didn't obie doodle say the unemployed NASA employees could make nice with tha muslims?


----------



## whitehall (Jul 21, 2011)

What a difference a couple of decades make. America was once proud to have Space Shuttle technology. After the collapse of the Soviet Union it was revealed that the Russians had attempted to make a similar vehicle and the remains were found rusting in a top-secret hanger. Now we dump the Shuttle and depend on the Russians for space travel.


----------



## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> I think you have your finger on the problem.
> 
> Thanks to Unions Americans are overpaid and lazy.



I hope the Republicans make this their 2012 mantra:  The middle class is overpaid!  If everyone would just agree to become poorer we'd all be better off!


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > I think you have your finger on the problem.
> ...



"Prosperity Through Lower Wages!"


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > I think you have your finger on the problem.
> ...



Ask yourself this question, "Is the UAW better off now than it was 4 years ago?"


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

How does the Constitution allow for a space program?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> How does the Constitution allow for a space program?



Oh, so now we're Joe Constitutionalist.

You sure you want to go down this road?


----------



## 8537 (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> 8537 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...




Yes indeed, the UAW is far better off - their largest companies are stable and gaining market share.


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> "Prosperity Through Lower Wages!"



trickle up poverty....


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > How does the Constitution allow for a space program?
> ...



Its kind of like the Bible.... its only brought up when it suits their cause.

Otherwise, its a useless document.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > How does the Constitution allow for a space program?
> ...



Yes, enlighten me.


----------



## Sarah G (Jul 21, 2011)

NYcarbineer said:


> According to conservative principles, this is how you CREATE jobs -
> 
> cutting government spending.
> 
> It's hilarious to watch rightwingers throw themselves under the bus.




Good point.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Douger said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9-sTDhJ58&feature=player_embedded



I would pay 10 times the asking price to get bumped to the front of the line for the first commercial flight on Virgin Galactic... even if they did not have any virgins going up


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > 8537 said:
> ...



Taxpayers lose $1.3 billion as govt. exits Chrysler - Jul. 21, 2011

And at such a small cost too


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Harry Dresden said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > there is nothing as worse as to see someone lament and hate for no real reason. The NASA program has other pans in the fire. At least no one died in this journey. *The shuttles are old and dangerous.*
> ...



The Soyuz system is actually the safest in manned space flight history. Until we have, if ever, a replacement for the aging shuttle fleet... or until commercial endeavors can do the job safely and cost effectively, I'm fine with hitching a ride with the Russians for a while. Good for international relations too.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



What part of AGING... NO LONGER AS SAFE... OUTDATED TECHNOLOGY... etc do you fail to comprehend?

I'm a devout conservative, registered Republican, and have been following the space program since I watched the first Apollo-Soyuz missions from the electronics department of a local retailer as a kid.

That being said, I have ZERO problem with closing down the shuttle program. It's the right time.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is not the shuttle program shutting down. It's 30+ years old now, well past it's useful and SAFE lifespan. It needed to be shut down.
> ...



Already have. Emailed Obama when he froze the budget for NASA... emailed my local congressman and senator as well.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



It falls under the "Good and Commerce" clause.

Why do you Democrats hate science?


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

daveman said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > > The decision to cease shuttle flight was made seven years ago, barely a year after the Columbia tragedy. President Barack Obama nixed President George W. Bush's lunar goals, however, opting instead for astronaut expeditions to an asteroid and Mars.
> ...



which is where my support for his actions in this thread ends. As I stated previously, there should be money budgeted for a replacement. We have one option already developed. There were other options as well. All gone from the budget cut.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> How does the Constitution allow for a space program?



If we only funded things specified in the Constitution, we'd still be living in the 1700's.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



Thanks. I appreciate the time you took out of your busy day to research that on my behalf.

Whether or not it applies to the space program who knows but the way you people throw the constitutionality of government programs around, I figured I 'd give it a shot.

And by the way, I'm a big fan of the space program, constitutionally guaranteed and provided or not.


----------



## USArmyRetired (Jul 21, 2011)

How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk. The Russians now has the capability to go into orbit and dismantle any of our satellites at will. This should be a wakeup call to Americans of what this Article 2 Section 1 Constitutional violater has done. What we need now is a person as president who loves our country with pride and patriotism who want to restore what Obama has taken away from us, American exceptionalism. That person is Sarah Palin.


Diss Vidaniya: Shuttle Ends 50 Years of U.S. Space Flight as Russia Trumpets 'Era of Soyuz'

Read more: Diss Vidaniya: Shuttle Ends 50 Years of U.S. Space Flight as Russia Trumpets 'Era of Soyuz' - FoxNews.com

merged with existing thread.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



I think the founders would have been big proponents of manned space flight as well; all real American are.  I can see the Space Program falling under the General welfare clause; the Robert Byrd Memorial Library and Knot Making Center -- not so much

I know I am.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

I worked on the design of some of the audio systems for the shuttle back in the '70s.  I would imagine they've upgraded a lot of the systems by now but still the fleet is old tech.

Maybe when St Sarah gets elected by a landslide in 2012 and all is right with the world again we can go back to putting money into a new and improved vehicle.

Until then, maybe we should concentrate on taking care of things here on earth.


----------



## imbalance (Jul 21, 2011)

When Obama is done deleveraging controling ownership of the US Government to foreign debtholders, I wonder what foreign owners will do with their newly acquired US Military?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> I worked on the design of some of the audio systems for the shuttle back in the '70s.  I would imagine they've upgraded a lot of the systems by now but still the fleet is old tech.
> 
> Maybe when St Sarah gets elected by a landslide in 2012 and all is right with the world again we can go back to putting money into a new and improved vehicle.
> 
> Until then, maybe we should concentrate on taking care of things here on earth.



Palin will be proud to highlight American exceptionalism as evidenced by the Space Program


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

there is already another thread on this.

Also, this is a stupid thing to be pissed at Obama about. There are many other more important issues he's screwed us over on.

The shuttle is 30 + years old. Technologically outdated, becoming more unsafe.

We can hitch a ride with Russia for people and materials until the commercial entities are ready to take over.

And please... anyone saying this is a slap in the face, or that Obama slammed the door, or whatever... this was planned under Dubbya, remember?


----------



## daveman (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...


Yup.  For the first time in over half a century, the United States has no way to get a human being into orbit.  

That is _not_ progress, Mr. President.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > I worked on the design of some of the audio systems for the shuttle back in the '70s.  I would imagine they've upgraded a lot of the systems by now but still the fleet is old tech.
> ...




"American exceptionalism" sounds a lot like that Master Race crap Hitler used to spew.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Jul 21, 2011)

....whose technology has not improved much since 1961.
We just went from 1980 technology to 1960 technology.
 Thanks.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

iamwhatiseem said:


> ....whose technology has not improved much since 1961.
> We just went from 1980 technology to 1960 technology.
> Thanks.



If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The shuttle program had it's time. We should move on.

unfortunately, the budget for moving on was cut by the president... which is really the ONLY thing here to be pissed about people.


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk. The Russians now has the capability to go into orbit and dismantle any of our satellites at will. This should be a wakeup call to Americans of what this Article 2 Section 1 Constitutional violater has done. What we need now is a person as president who loves our country with pride and patriotism who want to restore what Obama has taken away from us, American exceptionalism. That person is Sarah Palin.
> 
> 
> Diss Vidaniya: Shuttle Ends 50 Years of U.S. Space Flight as Russia Trumpets 'Era of Soyuz'
> ...



Not to mention he added ten thousand to the unemployment rolls.


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> there is already another thread on this.
> 
> Also, this is a stupid thing to be pissed at Obama about. There are many other more important issues he's screwed us over on.
> 
> ...



Obama had the power to stop it. Remember?


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

He was asked to stop it. remember?


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

It happened on obie's watch. Remember?


----------



## Liability (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



Only to the tone deaf propagandized ears of certain schmucky types.


----------



## VaYank5150 (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk. The Russians now has the capability to go into orbit and dismantle any of our satellites at will. This should be a wakeup call to Americans of what this Article 2 Section 1 Constitutional violater has done. What we need now is a person as president who loves our country with pride and patriotism who want to restore what Obama has taken away from us, American exceptionalism. That person is Sarah Palin.
> 
> 
> Diss Vidaniya: Shuttle Ends 50 Years of U.S. Space Flight as Russia Trumpets 'Era of Soyuz'
> ...



We're broke, remember?  We can't afford to keep sending shuttles into outerspace?


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Those were "shovel ready" jobs.. Remember??   Giggle giggle snort snort.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > there is already another thread on this.
> ...



My God, you can be dense sometimes.

It was time for it to end. It was too expensive. It was getting old and more unsafe. 

True, it should have been replaced with something, and THAT is why I am pissed. Not for any partisan hack hatred of Obama. But because he killed the budget for the replacement of the shuttle program.

The cheapest alternative is the Soyuz, and eventually commercial ventures here and in other countries. I'm ok with that under the circumstances.


----------



## Mustang (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk. The Russians now has the capability to go into orbit and dismantle any of our satellites at will. This should be a wakeup call to Americans of what this Article 2 Section 1 Constitutional violater has done. What we need now is a person as president who loves our country with pride and patriotism who want to restore what Obama has taken away from us, American exceptionalism. That person is Sarah Palin.
> 
> 
> Diss Vidaniya: Shuttle Ends 50 Years of U.S. Space Flight as Russia Trumpets 'Era of Soyuz'
> ...


 
Facts would be nice.  Too bad you don't have any.

It takes many, MANY years to design, develop, test, and build a launch prototype orbiting system.  And years more to work out the bugs and put the finished product into production.

In other words, in order for a launch/reentry vehicle to be ready to replace the space shuttle, the plans to build it (and the money to build it) would have to have been made/allocated several years ago.  It didn't happen.  If you don't want to blame Bush for that lack of vision, maybe you can blame Clinton since he's a Democrat. 



> Vision for Space Exploration
> Main article: Vision for Space Exploration
> On January 14, 2004, ten days after the landing of the Mars Exploration Rover _Spirit_, US President George W. Bush announced a new plan for NASA's future, dubbed the Vision for Space Exploration.[43] According to this plan, mankind would return to the Moon by 2018, and set up outposts as a testbed and potential resource for future missions. The Space Shuttle will be retired in 2011 and Orion may replace it by 2015, capable of both docking with the International Space Station (ISS) and leaving the Earth's orbit. The future of the ISS is somewhat uncertainconstruction will be completed, but beyond that is less clear. Although the plan initially met with skepticism from Congress, in late 2004 Congress agreed to provide start-up funds for the first year's worth of the new space vision.[44]
> Hoping to spur innovation from the private sector, NASA established a series of Centennial Challenges, technology prizes for non-government teams, in 2004. The Challenges include tasks that will be useful for implementing the Vision for Space Exploration, such as building more efficient astronaut gloves.[45] In February 2010, NASA announced that it would be awarding $50 million in contracts to commercial spaceflight companies including Blue Origin, Boeing, Paragon Space Development Corporation, Sierra Nevada Corporation and United Launch Alliance to design and develop viable reusable launch vehicles.[46]
> ...


----------



## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Would you tell this dense sometimes person what a bidget is????  I guess you Thank God that obie doodle is employing Russians and not Americans.. Good for you for admitting it.


----------



## USArmyRetired (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...


He even killed the new Constellation and Orion vehicle program that was to carry us into space.


----------



## VaYank5150 (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



We are broke.  We cannot afford this.  Besides, where in the Constitution does it call for this type of activity?


----------



## saveliberty (Jul 21, 2011)

I would have preferred a more orderly transfer to private industry of the space program.  This seems like more of an abandonment of a valuable program.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



And THAT... is what I am pissed about... not the ending of the shuttle program.


----------



## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

VaYank5150 said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



I really wish people would get over this 'if it ain't in the Constitution, we shouldn't be doing it' mentality.


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



That would be the typical typographical error when trying to type the word 'budget'.

Not sure I said anything of the kind, but I can see there is no reasoning with people who simply hate to... well.. hate.


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## VaYank5150 (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> VaYank5150 said:
> 
> 
> > USArmyRetired said:
> ...



Sorry....I can't help but parrot the Tea Party fools...


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

VaYank5150 said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > VaYank5150 said:
> ...



then we agree. Anyone who says 'if it ain't in the Constitution, we shouldn't be doing it' is a fool. But perhaps your time here would be better spent using your own words and opinions, rather than parroting people you disagree with just to have something to type.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk.



Exactly how would you like us to pay for it?


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> I really wish people would get over this 'if it ain't in the Constitution, we shouldn't be doing it' mentality.



Exactly what is the Constitution for then?


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## daveman (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...


No, it doesn't.  Don't be stupid, unless, as I suspect, you simply can't help it.


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...






Suit yourself.


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## saveliberty (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> I really wish people would get over this 'if it ain't in the Constitution, we shouldn't be doing it' mentality.



WE can do pretty much anything that doesn't enfringe on someone esle's rights.  Government is the one that is limited.  With all the potential for new products and applications, private industry should be rushing in the take this over.  Too bad the government didn't make that an easier transition.


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## VaYank5150 (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> VaYank5150 said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



In my own words....after 60 years in space, I believe the time has come for out government to turn it over to the private sector.


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## USArmyRetired (Jul 21, 2011)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk.
> ...



How? By cutting out welfare and SSI funds for minorities.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Jul 21, 2011)

What happened to the "science" crowd....  And Obama can officially add about another 10,000 to the ranks of  the unemployed.



Well Done 'ole chap!


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## Soggy in NOLA (Jul 21, 2011)

VaYank5150 said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > VaYank5150 said:
> ...



Heck yeah.  And then the Government can regulate and tax  the fuck out of it under the guises of the "Intergalactic Commerce Clause".


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## WillowTree (Jul 21, 2011)

VaYank5150 said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > VaYank5150 said:
> ...



So you can bitch about them getting rich? that's rich.. innit?


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## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

Mr Clean said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



Yup. Libs hate the flag, the 4th of July, a strong Defense, a space program. 

All of that stuff that makes this country what it is.

I think folks that feel we are crap should just.......leave.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Jul 21, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> VaYank5150 said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Seriously... it's like dealing with insolent children.


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## VaYank5150 (Jul 21, 2011)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > VaYank5150 said:
> ...



No, so we can focus our money on tax revenues on more important things.  Cutting the defense budget should be next.


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## idb (Jul 21, 2011)

Come on!
You made your point...you won the space race in the sixties.
It's time for something new to challenge the Russkies or Chinese at.


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## mudwhistle (Jul 21, 2011)

Liability said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



National Pride is what schmucks like baldy think is the next thing to fascism. 

He's been taught to hate this country by foreign professors. They're teaching in our schools, teaching our kids to hate this country. What better way to bring it down from within then by taking kids with their heads full of mush and warping them out of shape. 

It's pure hypocrisy.


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## saveliberty (Jul 21, 2011)

idb said:


> Come on!
> You made your point...you won the space race in the sixties.
> It's time for something new to challenge the Russkies or Chinese at.



The debt race is on!!!


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## oreo (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk. The Russians now has the capability to go into orbit and dismantle any of our satellites at will. This should be a wakeup call to Americans of what this Article 2 Section 1 Constitutional violater has done. What we need now is a person as president who loves our country with pride and patriotism who want to restore what Obama has taken away from us, American exceptionalism. That person is Sarah Palin.
> 
> 
> Diss Vidaniya: Shuttle Ends 50 Years of U.S. Space Flight as Russia Trumpets 'Era of Soyuz'
> ...



We don't have any money to fund this--and I doubt Russia does either.  It's time to make cuts to the budget--we simply cannot afford it right now.   We've already been up and back many times now--and certainly know how to get back up if we have too.


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## USArmyRetired (Jul 21, 2011)

oreo said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing. Obama cancelled the shuttles earlier as well as the Constellation program ending our capability to get into orbit with any American space vehicle. The Russians who can't be trusted has been given space superiority by Obama and it puts America's national security at serious risk. The Russians now has the capability to go into orbit and dismantle any of our satellites at will. This should be a wakeup call to Americans of what this Article 2 Section 1 Constitutional violater has done. What we need now is a person as president who loves our country with pride and patriotism who want to restore what Obama has taken away from us, American exceptionalism. That person is Sarah Palin.
> ...



We would have plenty of money to fund it if we cut out welfare and SSI checks for minorities.


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## saveliberty (Jul 21, 2011)

If space exploration can find a cure for stupid, I say spend away!


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## oreo (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> oreo said:
> 
> 
> > USArmyRetired said:
> ...




We have a financial crisis right now in this country that is unprecedented.  *There can be NO SACRED Cows--if we are to SAVE this country.  *

I want you to think about how many 3rd world countries have ever even went into space.  Answer--NONE. 

If we don't do something about federal government run-a-way spending--and cut where we can--this country is doomed to turn into a 3rd world country--and our space ships will turn into necessary scrap metal.

Get over it--money for space exploration is going to be on the chopping block too.


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## rdean (Jul 21, 2011)

Hilarious!  Right wingers see this as some new way to rag on the President.  They don't give a fig about space.

They believe science is a faith.

They hate education.

They think a degree is "just a piece of paper".

They insist scientists have no "common sense".

I wouldn't be surprised if many wonder why those guys wear "underwater suits".  After all, all the water is in the ocean, isn't it?


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## Sallow (Jul 21, 2011)

When conservative Anti-American fascist theocratic treachery is finally purged in this country..perhaps we can assume our role has the leading space faring nation.

Or just go back to belief in god and become as backward as the people that the theocratic conservatives hate so much in Afghanistan.


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## Greenbeard (Jul 21, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing.



I'd have to suggest the move to cancel the Webb space telescope this month is a bigger blow to space science (and American supremacy in that area, if that's your angle) than the end of the aging shuttle program.


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## idb (Jul 21, 2011)

rdean said:


> Hilarious!  Right wingers see this as some new way to rag on the President.  They don't give a fig about space.
> 
> They believe science is a faith.
> 
> ...



I'm confused, I thought one of the main Republican/Tea Party points was that the gummint had no business being in business.
Let the market decide, if space exploration is viable then let private enterprise do it.


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## Sallow (Jul 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> 
> I can't wait until this Marxist motherfucker is booted out of the WH.
> 
> Clear Forecast for Final Shuttle Landing - weather.com



Kiss of death happened when you fuckers decided that America should be on an All war all the time footing.

Assholes.

You fucked up the WTC..and now you fucked up the space program.


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## USArmyRetired (Jul 21, 2011)

Greenbeard said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > How unAmerican of him. America has had space superiority for decades and now with this usurper acting as president, he officially ended it this morning with the last shuttle landing.
> ...



It's both tragic. I agree with you on this one.


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > I really wish people would get over this 'if it ain't in the Constitution, we shouldn't be doing it' mentality.
> ...



Not to tell us that 'if it ain't in here, don't do it... ever!' that's for sure.


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## USArmyRetired (Jul 21, 2011)

oreo said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > oreo said:
> ...



This country wouldn't be in a mess it's in if we weren't having parasitic minorities living off the backs of hardworking taxpayers. Cut their welfare and SSI checks. All of it. Put that money into something more worthy like the space program or giving it to small independently owned oil and gas drilling companies for exploration and production.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> In fact, we have a 15 seat contract for about 700M.  That's less than 50M / flight.  The Shuttle costs multiples of that just to scrub the toilet.  Oh, and it blows up from time to time.



the Soyuz is not any safer.....and from what i was reading in Aviation News.....if something goes wrong at the SS the Soyuz is not equipped like the Shuttle to bring up what is needed to repair it.....


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## daveman (Jul 21, 2011)

rdean said:


> Hilarious!  Right wingers see this as some new way to rag on the President.  They don't give a fig about space.



Why do you keep lying?  Are you brain-damaged?  Too many recreational pharmaceuticals?  

What the fuck is your problem?


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



that may be because they haven't used them as much as us......now that they will be....we will see how safe they are.......i have read many articles saying that the Soyuz is not that great.....they are just as outdated as the Shuttles....but we will see.....

Soyuz lacks shuttle's ability to repair space station, warn space experts | Science | The Guardian


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Harry Dresden said:


> 8537 said:
> 
> 
> > In fact, we have a 15 seat contract for about 700M.  That's less than 50M / flight.  The Shuttle costs multiples of that just to scrub the toilet.  Oh, and it blows up from time to time.
> ...



sorry, but you're wrong. on both counts.

Space Today Online - Soyuz transports cosmonauts and astronauts to the International Space Station



> Over the decades, Soyuz has built up a strong safety record. Its last fatal flight was in 1971 when three cosmonauts died during re-entry. Shuttles have had fatal flights in 1986 and 2003 with a total loss of 14 astronauts.





> Over the decades, numerous modifications have refined the original capsule design to improve its capabilities as a transport vehicle, upgrade its electronic and navigation systems, and allow it to dock with a variety of space stations.





> Every eight weeks, an unmanned Progress freighter carries 5,000 lbs. of goods to the station  food, fuel, water, clothing, office supplies, scientific experiments to be conducted, *replacement parts*, newspapers and mail from home, and other necessities.



I'm good with this until a suitable shuttle replacement is found.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2011)

8537 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



they will be doing the next 27 flights......i guess we will see wont we?.....


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Harry Dresden said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



you've been reading bad information. see my last post.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 21, 2011)

Conservative said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...


oh....ok so Space On Line Today is some how a more reliable source than the Guardian Newspapers Science Section?......i would never have known.....by the way.....last week in Air & Space Magazine i believe it was.....they said much the same thing as what the Guardian writer said.....the Soyez is limited in its ability to get Crew and Equipment up there in case of a Major repair job.....so i guess its what ever you wanna believe........


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Harry Dresden said:


> oh....ok *so Space On Line Today is some how a more reliable source than the Guardian Newspapers Science Section?*......i would never have known.....by the way.....last week in Air & Space Magazine i believe it was.....they said much the same thing as what the Guardian writer said.....the Soyez is limited in its ability to get Crew and Equipment up there in case of a Major repair job.....so i guess its what ever you wanna believe........



quite probably, yes. 

UK Guardian story...
Tom Parfitt


> MA in politics at the School of Slavonic and East European Studies in London.



Space Online Today...
edited by
Anthony R. Curtis, Ph.D. 


> Education:
> 
> Ph.D., Mass Communication, Union Institute & University
> M.A., with distinction, Political Science, Pennsylvania State University
> ...





> authored 72 books and hundreds of newspaper and magazine articles.





> one of only twelve private Internet publications granted a link from NASA's hotlist page.





> I served as an editor for Popular Mechanics magazine and then founded Modern Electronics magazine, creating a staff of editors, authors and artists.
> 
> Honors:
> 
> ...



yeah... wtf does HE know, compared to a guy with an MA in politics at the School of Slavonic and East European Studies in London, right?


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## Conservative (Jul 21, 2011)

Astronauts Evacuate to Soyuz Spacecraft as Junk Nearly Hits International Space Station


> Astronauts on board the International Space Station had to rush into two docked Soyuz spaceships as space debris nearly missed their homebase, passing just 250 meters (820 feet) from it. In space, that's a pretty close call.



It was difficult to do this with a shuttle, considering there was rarely a shuttle docked to the station. There is always a Soyuz docked.


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## USArmyRetired (Jul 22, 2011)

Conservative said:


> Astronauts Evacuate to Soyuz Spacecraft as Junk Nearly Hits International Space Station
> 
> 
> > Astronauts on board the International Space Station had to rush into two docked Soyuz spaceships as space debris nearly missed their homebase, passing just 250 meters (820 feet) from it. In space, that's a pretty close call.
> ...



Yes but there was always a Shuttle on standby to go into orbit for a Patriotic rescue mission incase there was trouble. Do the Russians have that capability? Be honest.


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## mudwhistle (Jul 22, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Astronauts Evacuate to Soyuz Spacecraft as Junk Nearly Hits International Space Station
> ...



Guess Russia is celebrating today.



> *Russia declares 'era of Soyuz' after shuttle*
> AFPAFP  20 hrs ago
> 
> 
> ...



Russia declares 'era of Soyuz' after shuttle - Yahoo! News


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## mudwhistle (Jul 22, 2011)

One Step Back For Man
One Giant Leap Back For Mankind

Thank you Mr Obama​


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## CrusaderFrank (Jul 22, 2011)

mudwhistle said:


> USArmyRetired said:
> 
> 
> > Conservative said:
> ...



Obama also cheers the end of American Extraterrestrial colonialism


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## Liability (Jul 22, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > USArmyRetired said:
> ...



"American Exceptionalism ends in our troposphere," he declared with his lips turning bluer.

"From this day forward, for as long as I am your President," the soon to be ex-President intoned, "when Americans have any mission in Space, the World can expect to hear one word from us:  'TAXI!'."


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 22, 2011)

Conservative said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > oh....ok *so Space On Line Today is some how a more reliable source than the Guardian Newspapers Science Section?*......i would never have known.....by the way.....last week in Air & Space Magazine i believe it was.....they said much the same thing as what the Guardian writer said.....the Soyez is limited in its ability to get Crew and Equipment up there in case of a Major repair job.....so i guess its what ever you wanna believe........
> ...



so its one guys opinion.....got it......ill take Air & Space Mags opinion over both writers......and they say that the Soyuz is limited in what it can do compared to the Shuttle.....


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## Conservative (Jul 22, 2011)

USArmyRetired said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Astronauts Evacuate to Soyuz Spacecraft as Junk Nearly Hits International Space Station
> ...



you honestly think it's faster to prep and launch a shuttle for an emergency, than it is to enter an already attached soyuz capsule?

Really?


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## Conservative (Jul 22, 2011)

Harry Dresden said:


> so its one guys opinion.....got it......ill take Air & Space Mags opinion over both writers......and they say that the Soyuz is limited in what it can do compared to the Shuttle.....



Of course it has limitations, some of which the shuttle did not have. No one is denying that.

The issue here isn't how much weight can the shuttle carry vs. the soyuz... or how big a piece or equipment can it carry (regardless of the shuttle or soyus taking scientific equipment up, it all has to fit though the same airlocks, remember?).

The issues are cost, safety, etc.

There are so many other areas of Obama's presidency to be truly pissed about... I just don't see his following yet another Bush era policy decision as one of them.

Until we somehow manage to restore enough of NASA's budget to replace the shuttle, or until the commercial industry gets off the ground (see what I did there?), hitching a ride with the Russians is the most cost effective, safest option.


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## saveliberty (Jul 22, 2011)

I admit I haven't checked out a Soyuz lately, but the large crane arm of a space shuttle seems pretty helpful with large exterior projects and new attachments.  I can't speak for anyone else, but the space program was inspirational in my interests in science.


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## Conservative (Jul 22, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> I admit I haven't checked out a Soyuz lately, but the large crane arm of a space shuttle seems pretty helpful with large exterior projects and new attachments.  I can't speak for anyone else, but the space program was inspirational in my interests in science.



The ISS has Canadarm2, big brother of the Canadar on the shuttle. It can go anywhere outside the ISS that it's needed to go.

NASA - The Canadian Crane


> Canadarm has been such a success that it led to the bigger and better Canadarm2, which is a part of the ISS.
> 
> Besides lifting heavy payloads and moving parts of the ISS into place during construction, Canadarm2 assists with docking the Space Shuttle to the Space Station. While the Canadarm on the Shuttle can reach and move with flexibility, the ISS arm can also move end over end in an inchworm-like movement to reach many parts of the ISS. As the Station grows ever larger, this is a feature that will come in handy.
> 
> Canadarm2 receives its power from Power Data Grapple Fixtures (PDGF) on the ISS, which are much like electrical outlets spaced throughout homes on Earth. Canadarm2 can move anywhere that a PDGF is available. Because it uses the PDGF for power, the arm isn't permanently mounted to one particular spot on the Station. Latching End Effectors (LEEs) at each end of the arm provide power, data, and video signals to the arm when connected to the PDGF. Imagine someone running a vacuum cleaner in the house and unplugging it when moving from room to room. That's something like what happens with the Canadarm2 on the ISS.


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## Dr.Traveler (Jul 22, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> As someone who grew up proud of America's achievements in space, this tears my heart out. Obama's kiss of death on our Space Shuttle Program means the end of Mission Control.
> 
> I can't wait until this Marxist motherfucker is booted out of the WH.
> 
> Clear Forecast for Final Shuttle Landing - weather.com



Just one more reason I'm thinking of voting against him come 2012.  It's especially troubling as you're reading scientists get excited about the possibility of H3 being a powerful new source of clean energy.... and its on the Moon.  Which we got to first.  Which we no longer have a way to get to.

God Damn It.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 22, 2011)

Conservative said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > so its one guys opinion.....got it......ill take Air & Space Mags opinion over both writers......and they say that the Soyuz is limited in what it can do compared to the Shuttle.....
> ...



my thing with this is......i heard maybe 10 years ago that the Shuttles were getting old and will need to be replaced......today we should have new more advanced Shuttles working right now.....but then that is one big negative about Govt Programs......they just dont seem to look ahead and plan ......they wait for it to actually happen and then are stymied for a bunch of years because of their inaction....thats my take.....where i work the PO is just like that....


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## Conservative (Jul 22, 2011)

Harry Dresden said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



I have yet to hear truer words spoken.


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## Article 15 (Jul 23, 2011)

bump for the 6%ers


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