# From World War 3 To The Age of Peace (2006-2012)



## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

I am going to list a mix of current information and psychic predictions for the World War that is supposed to occur within the next 3 years involving China, Libya, Syria, USA, Russia, and a few others. 

All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics who have been tested over time and who have proven themselves time and time again. 

I think alot of people will enjoy the information that I will be posting in this thread, but I must warn you, it can be a little scary at first, so brace yourselves for some of the events we have coming ahead. 
- The key is not to scare you, but to instead prepare your mind for the changes that we will soon be facing. I am putting this information out there because there is no way that I could keep this all to myself without allowing other people the chance to see whats coming.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Last year I was watching the news and they announced that Iran and Syria have made a pact with eachother that states that if either of them is attacked they will team up with eachother to retaliate against the United States. 

This is very important because both Iran and Syria are listed in the Cayce predictions as well as the Jean Dixon predictions for world war 3. Libya and a few others are listed in the Bible code (and same for Jean Dixon and Cayce). 

So lets see if I have this right. Already Syria is showing it's true colors, Iran we have known about all along, now all we are missing is Libya, China, and Egypt. 

As soon as China invades Eastern Europe (which shouldn't be too much longer), then that should be the start of world war 3. I am not looking forward to this war, but I have to admit I feel as if it's coming no matter what we do. 

If things keep going the way they are going, then before we know it all 3 of the above predictions (which all say the same thing) will come true. And it won't be like we didn't expect it, I mean look at what has happened so far. 

Anyways it's kind of scary already, because if you look at the size of Iran it is about 3 times the size of Iraq. And Syria is on the other side of Iraq opposite Iran. So basicly our forces are sandwiched at the moment between these two countries. It looks like the Predictions about Russia being a big help during the war are probably a high possibility. We are definately going to need them if we expect to defeat China, Libya, Egypt, Syria, and Iran. 

So anyways, I just wanted to update you guys with that info, and I'll see what else I can find on the news update today for you guys to see with your own eyes.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*Syria and Iran to form 'united front' against threats * 


*AFP: 2/16/2005 


TEHRAN, Feb 16 (AFP) -* Syrian Prime Minister Mohammad Naji Otri said Wednesday that Damascus and Tehran -- both facing intense US pressure -- should form a "united front" against threats from abroad. 

"This meeting is taking place at a very important and delicate time, with Syria and Iran facing numerous challenges and it is important that they present a united front," the visiting minister told reporters. 

Otri was in Iran, its closest regional ally, as the United States ratcheted up the pressure on Damascus over its role in Lebanon following the killing on Monday of former prime minister Rafiq Hariri. 

"Our Syrian brothers are facing specific threats and we hope they can benefit from our experience. We are ready to give them any help necessary," said Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref. 

Washington has hinted at possible military action against Iran over its nuclear activities, which the United States claims are a cover for a programme to build atomic weapons. 


02/16/2005 13:16 GMT - AFP


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*Syria and Iran Say Will Build 'Common Front'* 


*Thu Feb 17,12:16 AM ET World - Reuters 

By Parisa Hafezi* 


*TEHRAN (Reuters) -* Iran and Syria, both locked in rows with the United States, said on Wednesday they would form a common front to face challenges and threats. 

"We are ready to help Syria on all grounds to confront threats," Iranian Vice-President Mohammad Reza Aref said in Tehran after meeting Syrian Prime Minister Naji al-Otari. 

Otari told reporters: "This meeting, which takes place at this sensitive time, is important, especially because Syria and Iran face several challenges and it is necessary to build a common front." 

Syria's ambassador to the United States, asked by CNN what the common front with Iran entailed, stressed that it was not an anti-American alliance and said Syria was trying to improve its relations with Washington. 

"Today we do not want to form a front against anybody, particularly not against the United States," Imad Moustapha said. 

"Syria is trying to engage constructively with the United States ... We are not the enemies of the United States, and we do not want to be drawn into such an enmity," he added. 

In a reaction to Iran and Syria's possible formation of a unified front to face threats, White House spokesman Scott McClellan called on the both countries to abide by the international commitments. 

"It is a fundamental misreading of the issue because their problem is not with the United States, it's with the international community," McClellan told reporters traveling with President Bush (news - web sites) to New Hampshire. 

"Both Syria and Iran have international obligations and they need to abide by the commitments they have made to the international community." 

Washington recalled its ambassador to Syria for urgent consultations on Tuesday to show its deep displeasure with Damascus after Monday's killing of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri. 

U.S. officials said they were considering imposing new sanctions on Syria because of its refusal to withdraw its 14,000 troops from Lebanon and the U.S. belief that Syria lets Palestinian militants and Iraqi insurgents operate on its soil. 

While acknowledging they do not know who was to blame for Hariri's car bomb assassination, U.S. officials argued Syria's military presence and its political power-broking role were generally responsible for Lebanon's instability. 


Syria rejects accusations it supports terrorism. 

Moustapha told CNN Damascus regarded its military presence in Lebanon as a "stabilising factor" and said "we would be happy to withdraw the troops" if the Lebanese government asked Syria to do so. 

Washington has branded Iran part of an "axis of evil" along with pre-war Iraq (news - web sites) and North Korea (news - web sites) and accuses Tehran of seeking nuclear weapons. Iran says its nuclear program is solely for electricity generation. 

Bush has dubbed Iran "the world's primary state sponsor of terror" and has warned the United States could use military action to prevent it acquiring a nuclear bomb.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 50 years ago:


*EDGAR CAYCE'S PREDICTION:* 

"There will be a potential Third World War In Libya, and in Egypt, in Ankara, and in Syria; through the straits around those areas above Australia, in the Indian Ocean and the Persian Gulf."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*THE BIBLE CODE:* 


*20.* "Syria" is encoded with "World War". 

It is the country that stands out, because it is not expected. 

"Russia", "China" and "USA" all also appear with "World War". But they are the three superpowers most likely to be inolved. "Syria" is the surprise. 


*13.* The words "Syria", "Russia", "China" and "USA" all apear next to the words "World War" in the Bible Code. 

"Iran" and "Libya" are also encoded next to the words "Syria" and "World War". 

*"Atomic Holocaust appears in the Bible Code next to the year 2006. "World War" also appears in the same place.*


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOTE:* 

Jeane Dixon said that Red China would strike at the very moment when negotiations in that part of the world seemed complete, and she claimed that it was the time when "Red China would show her teeth". 

Think about it guys, China loves North Korea. China is like North Korea's big brother. If we even so much as think to attack North Korea, China will have it's back (Just like in the Korean war). 

China is playing us if you ask me. North Korea gets all it's protection from China. China would protect North Korea over us anyday. 


*PS -* If we attack Syria, we have to contend with Libya and Iran. If we attack Iran, we have to contend with China and North Korea. China and Iran are trading partners, and Iran is one of China's best customers. 

Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that all of the countries involved here are the exact countries that were mentioned in many pevious predictions?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

If this year turns the way I think it will, and if everything happens exactly as was predicted, then it will just be proof that psychic ability is real. The thing about psychics and seers is that their dates are almost always off, but their predictions are almost always on the money. 

Anyways, I see everything slowly starting to form. China and North Korea are playing their little games, but it's just the prelude of whats supposed to be coming. I see this East vs West world war happening next year, because tensions in that part of the world are at their boiling point. 

The Bible Code is the only predictive tool that appears to be able to give an exact date in which an event will occur on. I have seen no other source which could do such things and pin point exact dates and times. Psychics have the same ability to forsee the future, but they are not good at all about trying to slap a date and time on their predictions. Maybe Cayce is an exception, because of all the psychics, Cayce was the one who was unconscious when he gave his predictions, which allowed him to access all the different parts of universal consciousness, and this gave him a little bit of an edge over other psychics (such as Sylvia Browne, or Jean Dixon).


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Alright I have been buisy trying to get out all the predictions I can for this board. Just so people can have them for when most of this stuff starts happening (of which I know alot of it will). 

So here is some of Jeane Dixon' predictions about terrorism and future events that would effect the world globaly or at least the last of which I have been able to do research on. 

I'm just glad to see that ESP is more accepted now then it has ever been in the past. We are on the verge of a new world where we will begin to accept the unacceptable and question the morals and ethics behind our current system of doing things. Perhaps this is the way for all of us to start preparing ourselves for the changes coming ahead.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's prediction On The End Of Fidel Castro:* 

"Cuba's dictator, Fidel Castro, is rapidly losing both influence and power in his island government. On each occasion that I concentrate on him I see that his days in power are numbered because he is no longer useful to his bosses. The Cuban government is not only dominated by the Russians, but Suslov himself is dictating Cuban affairs directly from Moscow." 

"If it had not been for the fact that Raoul Castro (A Communist Commissar) had protected his brother, Fidel might already have been removed. I sense that he feeld sudden death lurking around the corner and that it will not be a natural one." 

"Fidel's death, however, will not mark the end of Communism in Cuba. The country has become a training base for North Korean, Thai, Burmese, Algerian, and African guerillas. These men are trained by Chinese instructors, working under Russian command. South American guerillas and others intended to operate in the Western World - including scores of U.S. militant blacks, - are trained by the Russians themselves." 

"The future of Cuba will become a major source of contention between China and Russia"


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's False Disarmament Prediction:* 

"The discussions for world disarmament will continue for some years to come, but while some nations are actually going to disarm as a result of the negotiations, the leaders of the countries that are holding the talks have absolutely no intention to disarm. These leaders will work and talk total disarmament, and they will agree - as Russia will agree - to international inspection, but they do this because by that time they will have secret testing facilities perfected to the extent that they will be safe from inspection." 

"There will be a great peace movement then and even more so after the conclusion of the disarmament talks. The false security that will accompany this movement will lull the majority of people to sleep. The money saved as a reslt of the disarmament will be turned into the expansive consumer industry, but it will lead to great distruction, for while peace seems to be on everyone's mind, sudden destruction and war will occur soon after."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's Peacemaker Prediction:* 

"In the near future, a "peacemaker", great in informational stature, and much admired, will emerge as the "war lord" of modern times. The entire nation will back him, believing that he who has been so strong in peace can also be victorious in war. He will have military power at his disposal and will possess greater might than anyone ever before him and will use it to combat the Red Chinese menace that will by that time be fighting in Russia and the Scandinavian countries." 

"His changeover from peacemaker to military genius and dictator will be so sudden and abrupt and so absolute that people for the first time in modern history will wake up and realize that they have been had! For this will be why he entered politics!"


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's Great Britain Prediction:* 

"England will probably have a general election in th near future, as there will be changes in the top echelon of the government - changes which can result only from a general election. Too, I get that a person of prominence in England will pass from the picture and will be nationally mourned." 

"Great Britain will be called upon to broaden her military activities because of an international crisis, which will also cause much confusion and talk in our own country. This crisis and resulting confusion will cause indecision on a matter of grave international proportions and will be recorded in the annals of history." 

"England is clearly headed for trouble with her present government, and I see many, many changes."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's France Prediction:* 

"I get that it was not at all wise to vote General de Gaulle out. France is now in a very precarious condition - both internally and externally. Soon there will be great violence and even much talk of assassination of French leaders." 

"France, regrettably, is not going to be better off for the resent changes in government. This will prove a grave mistake. I guess you might say for France that hindsight will prove better than foresight. There will be a complete reorganization of the government, but the French will come very close to revolution, if not actually have on." 

"As I see it, France should watch closely the foreigner who came to Paris in 1967 to organize the paralyzing labor strikes that had virtually brought France's economy to a point of regression."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's Japan Prediction:* 

"For some time now I have seen Japan preparing itself for a gigantic economic power struggle with the West. It will move ahead to become one of the world's greatest economic powers, and this, in turn, will not only produce political problems in the Far East as well as in the Western world, but will also create serious internal problems within the United States as it will affect the structure and influence of the labor unions and movement."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's Germ Warfare prediction:* 

"In a recent vision I have seen that one of our most influential national institutions is being used as a cover-up for chemical and bacteriological warfare experiments." 

"As this sort of activity is completely alien to the normal works of this organization, no one will ever suspect it. I do get, however, that their experiments are conducted on the Indian and Russian borders, and in my mind's eye I have seen thousands of birds die in the course of these tests." 

"Why these tests are being conducted in that specific area is unknown to me. I do know, though, that as a result of these experiemtns we will have a Germ War in the future. It will be a costly war, both in loss of lives and destruction to crops." 


*NOTE:* 

I noticed something very interesting about this prediction a couple days ago. Most of us all know that the Bird Flu started in 2004 right? But do any of us really know how it started? Take another look at what Jeane Dixon said over 30 years ago relating to Government testing and Germ Warfare: 

_"As this sort of activity is completely alien to the normal works of this organization, no one will ever suspect it. I do get, however, that their experiments are conducted on the Indian and Russian borders, *and in my mind's eye I have seen thousands of birds die in the course of these tests*." 

"Why these tests are being conducted in that specific area is unknown to me. I do know, though, that as a result of these experiemtns we will have a Germ War in the future. It will be a costly war, both in loss of lives and destruction to crops."_ 

Jeane Dixon said that the experiments are being conducted on the Russian and Indian borders. Well folks, what country is it that lies between the Indian and Russian borders? It's China. And what country did the Bird Flu originate from in 2004? China. 

So what I am trying to get at here folks is this.....I think that the United States Government created the Bird Flu in China as a part of their "Germ Warfare", and I also believe that their purpose is to try and slow the Chinese down. I also believe that Jeane Dixon justs confirms that even further with this amazing prediction that she gave over 30-40 years ago. And it is truly amazing that she was able to see this event way back then.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

This prediction was given over 30-40 years ago: 


*Jeane Dixon's Major Armed Conflicts prediction:* 

"The Vietnam war, compared to wars I see in the future, is but a small bonfire. For years now the arms of these wars have been moving into countries of the Middle East, Africa, and South America, and countries such as Venezuela, Bolivia, and Guatemala have to be watched very carefully."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here are some very interesting things about the future that might relate to China's attacks in 2006 (the attacks which could start World War 3). 


*The Bible code has these predictions for 2006 and Japan:* 


The words "Great Earthquake" and "Japan" appear in the Bible Code next to the year "2006". 

Next to the year "2006" appear the words "Economic Collapse" along with "Fire" and "Earthquake struck Japan". 


The reason why these two predictions are so important for the future is because Japan is currently the only other country in on the Eastern side of the world that can even begin to compete with China for control of the Pacific Market. 

But here's where I see China making it's move. The two predictions above state that there will be a Great Earthquake in Japan in 2006, right? Well, that would be a perfect opportunity for China to makes it move for dominance over the Pacific Market. And China would do it militarily. 

The other prediction above states that Japan's economy will "collapse" as a result of the Earthquake. Again, another perfect time for China to attack. I see this as the time when China would be most likely to show it's true colors. 

China and Japan don't really like eachother, lets face it. Their wars with eachother go all the way back to the days of the Mongolian Empire and the attacks on the Japanese Island. They are in total competition with eachother for control of that part of the world. 

So....If Japan's economy and civilization was to be even partially destroyed by a Major Earthquake in 2006, then China would not hesitate to take that to it's advantage for world conquest. The Chinese are growing faster than anyone, and this prediction is a grave sign of things to come. 

If this Earthquake does strike Japan in 2006, I am willing to bet that it will be the moment when China will start to trigger the War. And I believe that it will do so anytime between 2006-2009.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

In the next few posts I am going to present to you another famous seer by the name of Jeane Dixon, who also was born in the early 1900's and who was famous for predicting the following events: 


*1.* The assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the name of his killer. 

*2.* Ted Kennedy's accident. 

*3.* The assassination of Mahatma Ghandi. 

*4.* Dag Hammarskjold and Carole Lombard's death by plane. 

*5.* Marilyn Monroe's suicide. 

*6.* The partition of India. 

*7.* The adoption of Communism by China. 

*8.* The soviet Sputnik 

*9.* DeGaulle's competitive France 


Jeane Dixon predicted all of those things, and she predicted their exact dates. She also predicted other numerous events of personal, national, and international significance. Before I show you all the predictions that she saw for our future, I would like to explain a little bit more about her as a person. 

We americans are accustomed to think of visions in terms of biblical lore, and to associate the city of Washington with power politics and faceless bureacracy. It seems remarkable, therefore, to discover in this bustling New World capital a psycic whos visions lift the curtain of tomorrow in much the same manner as did those of Old Testament Prophets. 

Because of this uncanny gift, Jeane Dixon had become almost as much of an institution as the pentagon, during the quarter century in which they both shared the national limelight. Both made their appearance in Washington early in the Second World War, and since then they have been approached by innumerable foreign dignitaries. 

From the pentagon these overseas visitors sought dollars and armaments, from Mrs. Dixon a glimpse of the future, the foreign-aid money was dispensed with certain strings attatched, but Jeane Dixon declined to accept any remuneration for the talent which she believed God bestowed on her for a purpose. Devoutly religious, she only used her gift for the benefit of others. She believed that if she were to take money she might lose this talent. 

Many skeptical people were unimpressed by Jeane's alleged powers until, as the years passed, the accuracy of her many forecasts began to forge an impressive chain of evidence. She was naming presiential slates long before delegates gathered in quadrennial convention to make the nominations. With regularity she was picking each White House winner a year in advance of his election. She not only foresaw death or downfall for certain world leaders but was able to pinpoint the time when these would occur. World shaking events were sometimes foretold a decade ahead of time, and eventually they came to pass in the precise year that she had mentioned. 

With all that said however, there were a few times when Jeane Dixon claimed that she misinterpreted some of the symbols that were sent to her in order for her to see the visions accurately. But this very seldomly ever occured. Had she always been right, some of her forebodings would have seemed too horrific for comfortable contemplation. Many people did not believe that president Kennedy would be assassinated. Many refused to accept her pronouncement that Secretary of State Dulles would die in the spring of 1959. Many people didn't listen to her prediction about the serious race riots that would bloody our American streets in 1963 and 1964. 

For those who shudder at some of the awesome "coming events" that Jeane felt have already cast their shadows before them, it is comforting to remember that she was not infallible; but her record of accuracy is such that the burden of that proof must rest upon future historians. So with that little information about Jeane Dixon that I provided I hope that you all have learned a little bit about her and who she was as a person, and I hope you understand that she was a wonderful woman who only used her gift for the good of our people and who truly loved helping people more than anything else in the world. 

Now it's time to move onto her predictions for our future. I only ask that if you are going to read these predictions, please keep an open mind about them, and remember that nothing is carved into stone, and that the future of our people really does rest on each and every one of us, and none of the bad predictions need to come true if we will only learn to love one another and treat eachother as family because thats what we all are in the eyes of our Creator.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*JEANE DIXON'S PREDICTIONS:* 

Below is a list of predictions that were given by Jean Dixon in the 1960's. Many of them have already come true. The ones that haven't are towards the bottom. Please read all of them carefully so that you can see the amazing accuracy of most all of them and the mysteriousness of how she could have know all of these things ahead of their times. 


*-Jeane Dixons words are in quotes-* 


*The Predictions That Have Already Come To Pass:* 


*1.* "President Johnson is becoming "cognizant of the fact that there are some Communist sympathizers in our government, and will take steps at what he considers the appropriate time to eliminate them, but the action will come too late. This situation is not of his own making, since he inherited these officials." 

*2.* "The years between 1964 and 1967 are a period of great national peril, in both the domestic and foreign firlds. Mistakes will be made which may not be fully realized for a decade. America will have three presidents in the period between 1961 and 1969." 

*3.* "Great wisdom will flow from certain decisions made by Gamal Abdel Nasser, President of the United Arab Republic, and because of some alliances that he will forge." 

*4.* "Pope Paul VI will leave the greatest imprint for good in the history of the papacy, but both he and President Lyndon B. Johnson are vulnerable to great personal danger." 

*5.* "The President's program for the Great Society will fail, because the channels are running in all directions and none of the ends are closed. His War on poverty will also fail unless more spirituality is introduced into the program, because "man does not live by bread alone, and it takes more than food and money to restore the dignity of man." 

*6.* "During the next two decades we will move steadily downhill, in pride, accomplishments, and dignity until the outbreak of war makes us realize our errors and inspires a program of reform." 

*7.* "Sargent Shriver and Richard M. Nixon have "excellent vibrations" or the good of America and will serve their country well. The former, however, must guard against assassination attempts." 

*8.* "The principles of Barry Goldwater will be vindicated, and despite his overwhelming defeat at the polls great honors will be showered upon him within twenty years. He will come to be venerated to an even greater degree than was the late Herbert Hoover, who was falsely castigated for the Great Depression but lived to become a revered elder statesman."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*JEANE DIXON'S PREDICTIONS:* 


*-Jeane Dixons words are in quotes-* 


*The Predictions That Have Yet To Come True:* 


*1.* "Our two biggest headaches will be the racial problem and Red China. Through the latter's subversion and medling in the racial strife, numerous African and Asian nations will turn against us and provoke a world war. Vietnam and North Korea will lead us into this "inevitable" war against Red China." 

*2.* "History will demonstrate that the test-ban treaty was bad for America and will be used against us. It is in our national interest to trade with Russia, although this trade will benefit the Kremlin more than us. Then will come a turning point, and we will align ourselves with Russia in the war against Red China." 

*3.* "Red China will invade Russian territory, but this will be a border skirmish and will not ignite the later war to come, in which Red China will wage germ warfare. In this period late in the century the Davis Straits will become an American life line." 

*4.* "American officials and scientists are mistakenly shelving "a baby missile which is approximately eighteen inches long, dark green or black in color, shaped like an elongated baloon." This missile, which is small enough to be carried on a battlefield by two or three soldiers, will be critically needed for the protection of our country but will not be available. Two other missiles, one shaped like a miniature whale, with two tiny fins, and another which explodes out of a pipelike instrument, should also be rushed to completion." 

*5.* "Our space program will be accelerated, and parts of it which are now under civilian control should be transferred to the air force, where unprecedented progress could be made in protecting our security." 

*6.* "Our foreign policy should be motivated by the desire to protect American interests, rather than by some mysterious humanitarian ideal. We should not try to make over European nations in our own image, but rather accept the differences and work with them." 

*7.* "The republican party will be victorious at the polls, but soon the two-party system as we have known it will vanish from the American scene." 

*8.* Jean Dixon saw that a time of peace that men long for will dawn sometime in the distant future, but not before a world holocaust has shocked mankind into a spiritual renewal. 


*NOTE:* 

Jeane Dixon had a vision as a warning that Americans must pay dearly for the confusion, degradation, and immorality in our political business, labor, and family lives; for our obession with material things and our compromises with high principle. Like the Romans who squandered their great cultural and political leadership with bread and circuses, she feels that we are also building up a loathsome debri that must be consumed by cleansing fires before peace can return to a troubled world. Jeane said of this: 

"I saw the debri of our national life littering America, but surrounding it was a sea of pure green grass which became inundated with sparkling clear water that still left the debri unswept. This was the present time, and as the gray clouds began to churn I knew that they represented the struggle between the races (which still continues to this day, like in Sudan, ect.) a struggle that will dominate the decades to come. After that came the even blacker clouds, representing a horrible war in which many Asian and African nations whom we have helped with foreign aid will join with Red China to close in on us and try to destroy our way of life. They will use a new kind of germ warfare, and many will die like ants."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Keep in mind that Jeane Dixon was talking about *RED* China. She was not talking about the part of China that isn't under communist control. Red China is another story, because back in the 1950's it was North Korea who we were battling overseas and we were kicking their ***, until Red China came in and basicly pushed us out of the Northern part of the country. 

So while we were backing up South Korea, China was backing up North Korea, because they have a contract with eachother. China is a monster country, and they have millions of soldiers in their army as opposed to our 500,000 or so. It's also important to understand that the people of China that are under communist rule are not necessarily a part of the corrupt government that leads that part of the country. Remember when Russia was under communist control? The cold war and everything? We could have gone into nuclear holocaust. It was pritty damn scary for the people who were alive during that time period. 

But anyways, back to the point I was trying to make. A friend, you were right when you said that the people of China are not born evil, because it's not the people that we have to worry about, it's their communist government. And North Korea, don't even get me started. They are trying to blackmale us, right now at this very moment, with their nuclear threats and everything in exchange for foreign aid. Doesn't that sound alot like what Jean was saying? That "The countries that we are giving foreign aid to will turn on us?" I'm not saying that this is going to happen, i'm just saying to think about it. 

To this day, China and North Korea are still allies with eachother. And I believe they still have a contract with eachother that says that if any one of them is under attack, then the other one has to back eachother up. So if you think China was a problem back when we were fighting North Korea in the Korean war of the 1950's, then just imagine what kind of a problem they would be now. They not only have nuclear weapons, but their army has grown massively since then, and they have been watching our army very closely as well (which worries me) because they saw what we did in Iraq so they have been coming up with ways to defeat us on the ground if we ever tried to invade their country in the same way. It was all on the news awhile back, I forget when though. 

So anyways, the reason that we lost the Korean war, was because China pushed us out of North Korea right when we were about to win. We were no match for China's troops, because we had already spent alot of men and time fighting North Korea's army, and when China came in they drove our army out within a matter of months. Thats how strong their army was back then, so like I said imagine how strong it is now! Thats really something to think about. The last thing we want is to fight China and North Korea along with other Asian and African countries, especially without any allies on our side. 

However, with all that said, I would like you to look very closely at what Jean Dixon said about Russia being our greatest ally in the war against the Chinese and North Koreans that is supposably yet to come. Think about it, what is the biggest and closest country to China that happens to be our ally? Thats right, it's RUSSIA. And Russia is right next to China, so who do you think America would turn to if we were having big problems with China? You guessed it, Russia. We would need them because of the proximity of their territory, and because we would need another ally that could watch and survey the Chinese while we were trying to deal with North Korea, ect. 

We would need Russia because we would need to have a place to send our troops to that would be very close to China, in order to invade their country. We wouldn't be able to just go into China like we did in Iraq, because we would be slaughtered. So it's very easy for me to see how Russia would be a HUGE necessity in a war against RED China. 

So I just want you all to think about that for a second, and to think about where we are today. In the 1960's, Jean Dixon saw that in the future we would have a problem/war with North Korea and China, and it looks like that prediction is coming true right before our eyes. Very often on the news you hear something or another about North Korea, and how they may very well be developing nuclear weapons behind our backs, which is a scary thought, because North Korea's army has grown considerably since the Korean war as well. They are nowhere near as powerful as China is, (partly because of the size of their country and partly because of all the trading and importing that we do with China), but they are surely a force to be reckoned with. 

So try and let that seap into your minds, because if you ask anybody right now what the next threat probably is after Iraq and the terrorist countries surrounding it, most people will probably say North Korea. And with North Korea comes China, because remember they are allies and are willing to back eachother up at all costs. And it's no secret that our government is keeping one eye on the situation in Iraq and one eye on North Korea's nuclear development, because this TRULY is an immediate clear and present danger.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*JEANE DIXON'S MIDDLE EAST PREDICTION:*


"Even though the United Nations and the big powers will press for a solution to the Middle East problem between the Arabs and the Israelis, I see nothing but continuing trouble in that part of the world. Peace between the belligerents is still awhile off. Their disagreement will only cease to exist after the Great Earthquake that will hit Jerusalem." 

"Until that time, however, there will be no real solution for the Arab-Israeli problem. Constant tension, hot diplomatic debates, border clashes and heavy fighting, interrupted by occasional respites of forced cease fires, will characterize life in the Middle East." 

"I have projected my quest for information beyond the year 2000 and see Chinese and Mongol troops invading the Middle East. I see devastating battles raging uncontrollably east of the Jordan River. It is a war of East against West. It will be an almost futile fight against an overwhelming foe - but the Lord will place Himself at the side of Israel, and great losses will be suffered by the Orientals." 

"After the tide of battle has shifted, Israel will become one of the greatest miracles of all times, for the Israelites will then realize that it was God's intervention that brought about this ultimate victory, and they will finally accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Please keep in mind that I am not here to promote anything but that I am only here to provide you with the information about the future events to come.

Rest assured, these events will unfold exactly as predicted. This year is 2006, and thats the year that the Bible Code lists for World War 3. Edgar Cayce, Jeane Dixon, and even people like Nostradamus have prophecies which coincide with what the Bible Code says will happen.

All of the countries involved in these prophecies are the same. China, Syria, Iran, Libya, USA, and Russia.

It doesn't take common sense to figure out that there is no way that 70 years ago Edgar Cayce or that even 40 years ago Jeane Dixon could have predicted the events that are occuring today without being able to accurately see the future.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Nostradamus said that during this century, a new terror would develop in the Orient. He also said that an Islamic invasion would also be coming in this century. An attack from the sea.

He said that Arabs would overcome the government of the church across the sea. He said that it would be near Persia, and that 1 million would plan to attack the Zans and Egypt.

Few people need to be told who Nastradamus was, but for those who don't know of him, he was a famous seer/prophet who's predictions made hundreds of years ago are still being fulfilled today. Some of his predictions are wickedly accurate.

In the next few posts I will provide his predictions about what he said our wars would look like from 2000-2100. I think many of you will be shocked at what he said back then and what is currently unfolding today.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


Nostradamus, (December 14, 1503 - July 1, 1566) born Michel de Nostredame, is one of the world's most famous authors of prophecies. He is most famous for his book Les Propheties, which consists of rhymed quatrains (4 line poems) grouped into sets of 100, called Centuries. 

Nostradamus enthusiasts have credited him with predicting an amazing number of events in world history, including the French Revolution, the atom bomb, and the rise of Adolf Hitler. 

What may be most astounding are some of his predictions for our current century as he describes wars and events which are astoundingly similar to what is currently happening in the world as I am writing this.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:


"The Oriental will come out of his Seat,

Crossing the Apennie Mountains seeing France:

Transported through the sky the waters and snows, 

And shall strike everyone with his rod."*


*NOTE:*

Obviously he is talking about China rising up against the world in this one. He claims that China will cross some mountains and whoever is in charge of the Chinese army will meet with France, possibly to declare war.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"From the Black Sea and Central Asia,

A King will come to see France,

He will pass through Alania and Albania,

And in Istanbul will leave his bloody Rod."*_


*NOTE:*

Here he appears to be talking about China's leader again. He mentions that the Leader will come to France and that he will "leave his bloody rod" in Istanbul. Istanbul probably means Turkey, so this looks like a prediction of an attack on Turkey.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"From Fez the Kingdom stretches out across Europe,

The city burns, and sword slices:

The great one of Asia Land and Sea a great army.

That blue, Persia, cross, driven to death."*_


*NOTE:*

In this prediction he appears to be describing the size of the Chinese army. Also it looks like he mentions that they will use both the Sea and Land for their warfare.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"From Monaco as far as Sicily,

All the sea coast will be left desolate:

There shall be no suburbs, cities, nor towns,

which will not be pillaged and violated by Barbarians."*_


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*A scythe joined with a pond in Sagittarius,

At the high of it's ascendancy,

Plague, famine, death from military hands,

The century approaches it's renewal."*_


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"At night they will think they have seen the sun,

When the pig half man is seen:

Noise, chants, battles seen in the sky:

And Brute beasts will be heard to speak."*_


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"The gods will make it appear to mankind,

That they are the authors of a great conflict:

The once serene sky will show Sword and Lance,

The Left will be the most afflicted."*_


*NOTE:*

Notice on that last one how he said the "left" would be the most afflicted. The left represents the Orient, or the East, and the right represents USA and the West. At least this is what I take from it.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"Pau, Verona, Vicenza, Saragosse,

Foreign swords wet the Land with blood,

Plague will come in a shell,

Though relief is near, the remedy is still far off."*_


*NOTE:*

All of those towns from the last one sound like they are somewhere near Italy. When he says, "Plague will come in a shell", perhaps he means like a canister or something.

He says foreign swords (or weapons) will wet the land with blood. I am guessing these will either be the Orientals or the Arabs.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"Frejus, Antibes, the towns around nice, 

will be greatly devastated from sea and land.

Locusts with favourable wind by land and sea,

Captured, dead, trussed up, plundered, without law of war."*_


*NOTE:* 

In that one I believe he is saying that one country will attack another from both the Sea and Land and that they will do it without following the necessary guidelines for declaring war.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"Weapons will be heard fighting in the sky.

In the same year, the divines will become enemies.

They will unjustly debate holy laws,

Through thunder and war the true believers will die."*_


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"The reign left to two, they shall not hold it long.

Three years seven months pass and they go to war.

The two vestals rebel against them,

The victor will be born on Amorique (American?) soil."*_


*NOTE:*

I believe that in that one Nostradamus was either describing something that has already happened, or was giving an accurate date for the beginning of World War 3. 

My guess is that he was giving the date for World War 3. 3 years and seven months after a certain event. The event could be the beginning of operation freedom, or another event which would be 3 years and seven months before the beginning of World War 3 (which is supposed to begin sometime in the year 2006).


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"The valiant eldest son of the King's daughter,

Will drive the celts back very far,

He will use thunderbolts, so many in such an array,

Few and distant then deep into the West."*_


*NOTE:* 

Perhaps when Nostradamus used the term "thunderbolts", he was really trying to describe a modern day missile.

It's important to remember thack back in Nostradamus's day, there was no such thing as a missile. So it would be easy for me to see how he would use the symbol of a "thunderbolt" to describe the missiles we use today.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"The sky will burn at forty-five degrees,

Fire approaches the great new city,

On the instant a great scattered flame leaps up,

When they will want proof of the Normans."*_


*NOTE:*

In that one I believe he may have been describing an atomic blast. He said a great fire would approach a "new city", and then in "an instant a great scattered flame will leap up from the ground."

Sounds like an atomic missile (heading toward a city) and then exploding. The question is where would the city be. My guess would be either Israel or somewhere in the U.S.A. I think Israel though, just because the destruction of it has been prophesized by so many other prophets before.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"The Anti-Christ three very soon Annihilates,

Twenty-seven bloody years his war will last.

Heretics dead, captive, exiled.

Water red hail cover the Earth."*_


*NOTE:*

In this one he is obviously describing the Anti-Christ and his attempt to take over our World. But one must remember that when it comes to war, military action is not the only aspect of it. Often times it is the final one but not the first.

So...given that, if we take what Nostradamus said about the Anti-Christ's war lasting for 27 years, we could look at it with the angle of realizing that it is quite possible that 21 of those years have already gone by. And that the Anti-Christ is about to make his final move, which is Military Action against the World. I could see this as a very good possibility, because the last 7 years will be the worst, and this correlates with what the Bible talks about with the 7 year tribulation period.

So....if we go back 21 years, than we can definately see that China was acting up in the 1980's.. The tanks and the protestors will probably ring a bell for some.

So therefore I believe that we have 6 years left to the Anti-Christ's war. And I believe that this will be time time when he steps out of the Shadows, and into the public arena, and that he will make his presence known to the World.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"His hand finally through bloody Alus,

He cannot guarantee his safety by Sea.

Between two rivers he will fear the military hand,

the black angry one will make him repent it."*_


*NOTE:*

Perhaps the black angry one refers to Condaleeza rice. She took over the job of commanding our armies and now I could see her getting very angry at the two leaders + their armies who according to the above will be pinned in between two rivers.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"Mars and the Septre conjoin together,

Under Cancer a calamitous War.

A short while after a new King will be annointed,

who for a long time will bring peace to the Earth."*_


*NOTE:*

In that one I believe Nostaramus was talking about the same "peacemaker" that Jeane Dixon was talking about. The same "peacemaker" who is supposed to help us win the war against China.


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## Said1 (Apr 13, 2006)

*stop*


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:*


_*"Born from the three water signs, 

one who makes Thursday his holiday: 

His fame, praise, reign, and power will grow,

By land and sea, to the Oriental Tempest."*_


*NOTE:*

Again, in that one I think Nostradamus was talking about the "peacemaker" who has been prophesized before.

He mentions that this man will be born under one of the three water signs, so one way to know who he is will be by his horoscope, because he will have to be either a Cancer, a Scorpio, or a Pisces.

Also interesting is the fact that he mentions that this man will go into the Oriental Tempest (obviously to help win the war over there).


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here is what the Bible prophecies say will happen as we enter into this century. Notice how close it all looks to what is actually happening with China and the terrorists today:


*JOHN'S PROPHECIES: (THE REVELATIONS PROPHET)*


These prophecies have been shortened and put into my own words to make them more understandable


*1.* "There will come 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. One will be crowned conquerer, and the other 3 will be bringers of war, famine, and death."

*2.* "After a (6th Seal) is opened, An Earthquake and other portents will follow. There will be fire, darkness, pollution of water, swarms of locusts, and Evil calverly. A large part of the population will be killed."

*3.* "After all the destruction of the apocalypse, The Kingdom of the World will become the Kingdom of the Lord, and His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever."


*NOTE:*

Notice how in the first one he says that one will be crowned conquerer. That sounds like China. The other 3 he says will be bringers of war, famine, ect. That could be Syria, Libya, and Russia.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here is what the Bible prophecies say will happen as we enter into this century. Notice how close it all looks to what is actually happening with China and the terrorists today:

This prophecy has been shortened and put into my own words to make it more understandable.


*EZEKIEL'S PROPHECY:*

"There will be an attack on the chosen people (Israel?). In their recovered land by Gog of the land of Magog, (Russia?) out of the upper most parts of the north, with various allies."


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## MtnBiker (Apr 13, 2006)

I can make a bold prediction about this thread!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here is what the Bible prophecies say will happen as we enter into this century. Notice how close it all looks to what is actually happening with China and the terrorists today:


This prophecy has been shortened and put into my own words to make it more understandable.


*DANIEL'S PROPHECY: (A REVELATIONS PROPHET)*


*1.* "There will come 4 Beasts, representing the babylonian, median, Persian, and Greek empires. These beasts will come together with The Roman Empire. They will attempt to lead the world astray from God, and will use their authority for 42 months."

*2.* "Then, a second Beast will rise out of the Earth, and will exercise all the authority of the first beast in it's presence. It will work great signs, even making fire come down from the sky to the Earth in sight of Men. It will deceive those who dwell on Earth, bidding them to make an image for the first Beast, and will cause those who will not worship the Beast to be slain." 

"It will cause all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the Beast, or the number of it's name."

(The number is said to be of a man, and that it will be 6 hundred and 66)."


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## Said1 (Apr 13, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> *stop*




IT


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here is what the Bible prophecies say will happen as we enter into this century. Notice how close it all looks to what is actually happening with China and the terrorists today:


This prophecy has been shortened and put into my own words to make it more understandable.


*THE EXPOSITORY ANGEL:*

"The 10 horns that John saw on the Beast are 10 kings that are to receive royal power for an hour together with the Beast. They will make war on the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them, as will the Lamb's followers. The Lamb will win because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings."


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## Said1 (Apr 13, 2006)

*please*


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here is what the Bible prophecies say will happen as we enter into this century. Notice how close it all looks to what is actually happening with China and the terrorists today: 

This prophecy has been shortened and put into my own words to make it more understandable. 


*ISAIAH'S PROPHECY:*

"A servant will be born that will be a light to the nations. He will be a gatherer and a unifier."


*NOTE:* 

This sounds alot like the same peacekeeper that both Nostradamus and Jeane Dixon mentioned about in the past."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

I'm almost done my friend. Trust me, when I am finished posting these prophecies, you will have a wealth of information about the next 6 years at your disposal.


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

Dude, have you lost your mind?


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I'm almost done my friend. Trust me, when I am finished posting these prophecies, you will have a wealth of information about the next 6 years at your disposal.



You mean it'll take 6 years to read the thread?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

GunnyL said:
			
		

> Dude, have you lost your mind?



Please, bare with me guys. There is a method to this madness. I am almost done for tonight.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

GunnyL said:
			
		

> You mean it'll take 6 years to read the thread?



No need to read it all at once.

Why not come back each day and read a little here and there? The brain works better when information comes in increments anyways. Besides..I'm almost done here. And I won't be doing this many again.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Here is a Hopi Indian Prophecy about a Great Future war which describes an event that looks alot like a Chinese invasion of one sort or another:


*HOPI PROPHECY:*

"One day a huge population wearing the color Red will invade the USA like a swarm of locusts. This will happen in a single day."


*NOTE:*

If we look at time from the Spiritual Realms perception of it, then we can easily see how the Hopi Indian's version of an attack in a single day could be the same thing as what the Expository Angel said about the nations coming together and having their "hour" together against the Lamb.

So we can see how the "day" and the "hour" might represent the same exact attack.


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## Said1 (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> No need to read it all at once.
> 
> Why not come back each day and read a little here and there? The brain works better when information comes in increments anyways. Besides..I'm almost done here. And I won't be doing this many again.



No kidding. A real let down. I was expecting four pages worth of replies.

Cayce in neat though.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

If 2006 turns out exactly as predicted, then that means that very soon China sends it's army into Russian territory. This sparks a global threat, and the War begins to take shape. Various African nations join with China (Just like they did when they committed Genocide in Rwanda in the 1990's, when China sent them weapons in order for ethnic cleansing), and so there would be the African nations allied with China. 

Then, after this begins, the Arab nations would ally with China as well. Iran, Syria, Libya, those types of nations, they would all side with China because thats who they do most of their trading with.

Russia would be surprised by China's attack, and so therefore they would be skaken at first, and would need help fast. America would side with Russia, only because the threat could spread throughout the World. It would not be wise to sit back and do nothing while the Eastern hemisphere of the world falls into the hands of the Chinese/Allied army.

So America would join Russia, and my guess would be that most western countries would side with America. This means that World War 3 would be in full force, and it would not be until 3 years later that the poles will shift and the World will change forever. In October of 2009, 3 quarters of the World's population may possibly be wiped off the face of the planet, and the 1/3 that survives might just be the ones who will have the responsibility of rebuilding new societies.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*Jeane Dixon's WW3 Predictions:*


These predictions were given over 30-40 years ago:


*Jeane Dixon:*


*1.* "Red (communist) China will turn on Russia. USA will need Russia as an ally when China becomes a World threat."

*2.* "As time goes by, the United States will find itself allied with Russia against China, parts of Africa, and the Far East."

*3.* "Red China will invade Russia with a new kind of warfare that resembles germ warfare."

*4.* "Red China will invade Russian territory, but this will be a border skermish and will not ignite the later war to come, in which Red China will wage germ warfare. In this period, the Davis straits will become an American lifeline."

*5.* "We (America? - The people of the World?) will move steadily downhill in pride and accomplishments, and dignity, until the outbreak of War makes us realize our errors and inspires a program of reform."

*6.* "Peace for which men long will dawn, but not before a World Holocaust has shocked mankind into a spiritual renewel."


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## MtnBiker (Apr 13, 2006)

NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS

Come on, that guy is so vauge he has been enterperted to fit almost any given scenario in the past century. Pure ramblings.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

I just want to add that as of this moment Israel faces probably the greatest threat to it's country in modern history.

If Iran succeeds in developing Nuclear Weapons than they won't think twice before selling them to the radical Muslim terrorists who they harbor within their borders.

I was watching a special on the news awhile back where a top ranking Iran official who works for Iran's Nuclear program was asked a few questions about how Iran would react if either America or Israel struck Iran's Nuclear facilities like they did with the ones in Iraq during the Golf War.

The Iranian official was first asked, "What would you do if America struck your facilities through a military operation?" He responded, "Why would they? For what purpose?" Then the official was asked the same question reguarding Israel striking the facilities and he said, "Do you think they would dare?" And the reporter said, "I don't know, you tell me." And he said, "I don't think so."

So the hatred for Israel is extremely obvious and Iran is on the verge of obtaining Nuclear weapons. There have been many prophesies that go all the way back to Biblical times about Israel being destroyed by a blast and then being rebuilt again. It seems that events are unfolding exactly as predicted. And Israel will definately have to make a move to defend itself if it expects to stay in tact."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

The truth is that we don't have time for games right now. 

Right now, China is in the process of building up their military incredibly (for what could only be seen as a buildup for an invasion of some sort or another), Syria and Libya have both chosen to take sides with eachother in case of any American attack on either lands soil. Iran is currently about to aquire nuclear weapons, North Korea already has them, and Africa is in the process of committing genocide.

So you see my friends, the predictions were all right. World War 3 looks like it might be coming right on par with the Bible Code's scheduel for it in the year 2006. Now, the date is not the most important part of the predictions. Jeane Dixon described largely how China would invade Russia, and try to take over much of the Eastern World. Nostradamus said that Arabs and Chinese would attack from the sea and they would conquer many lands that way. Also by land invasion of course.

The predictions are real. The psychics and prophets are real, and thats the reason I am informing you guys about all this in the first place. And the crazy part is, World War 3 is not the most Earth shaking event to come within the next 4 years, The Pole Shift will cause even more damage and destruction, but in the case of the Pole Shift it will be for a Good cause with Divine purpose and for humankind to experience the 1,000 years of peace it has been promised for decades. A better planet will emerge as the result.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

The Pole Shift can not really be avoided by anything that we can do. World War 3 on the other hand might have a chance to be thwarted, but do you really think it will happen?

It has been prophesized for ages. It is the signal for the Pole Shift which will come afterwards and clean up this mess we have made once and for all. Humans have caused a Pole Shift over 3 times in the past. We don't always realize that the Earth is alive and breathing. The Earth is not a machine. It's alive. It responds to human action and responds to human behavior. It is the Mother of all life on this planet.

Do you really think we humans can get away with what we have done in the past with absolutely no retribution/karma at all? What we did to the Indians? What we did in World War 2? What we did in Rwanda (Millions dead in months)? We created our own karma, and now we need to prepare to reap what we have set in motion for ourselves.

All I know is, the war will be bloody and terrible, and the Pole Shift will be the answer to our problem with evil. But then, after all the dust and smoke has cleared, the World will re-emerge as a peaceful and wonderful place to be for the next 1000-2000 years (During the entire Age of Aquarius/Age of Light). I don't know about you, but I'm willing to go through whatever it takes to reach that kind of World.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

All I know is that if there is going to be a World War 3 at all, then it would have to happen before 2012, because that is the year that the Earth enters into the Photon Band and the Age of Light begins on our planet. It is also the end of the Mayan Calendar and the beginning of the 1000 years of peace.

Before 2012 however, the Earth will have to undergo major changes. This supposably includes a Pole Shift. It's only logical. With things the way they are right now, all over the world, how could we ever have 1000 years of peace on this planet? With things the way they are right now we could never have 1 hour of complete peace on our planet.

So, I do believe that the Pole Shift is coming. I believe it 100 percent. I am not sure that World War 3 is coming, and I do think that it can be prevented, but if we go by what we are seeing right now it looks like China and a list of other countries could go off at any second.


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

Do you stand on a street corner holding a sign that says: "The End is Nigh"?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

No my friend, but I do take this stuff extremely seriously.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS PREDICTIONS*


The Dead Sea Scrolls are ancient texts stored in earthen jars and hidden in desert caves for centuries until discovered in 1947. A great apocalyptic scroll found among the Dead Sea library is called the War Scroll. It depicts, in a prophetic way, great conflict between the forces of good (the Sons of Light) and the forces of evil (the Sons of Darkness) at the end of the age. While a series of fierce battles is predicted, the battles themselves are not actually described. 

Instead, the bulk of the document is a vivid description of liturgical praise. At the heart of it there is no fighting at all, but participation in a great liturgical ceremony, with trumpets, standards, and shining armor. In the final analysis, the battle is won by praise, by personal purity, by a noble state of mind. The longest of all the texts in the Dead Sea library is The Temple Scroll. The Temple Scroll represents the dream of a new spiritual center, in the heart of Jerusalem, beaming light to all the world, yet existing, for the time-being, only in minds of the sect called the Essenes.

http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/library/scroll.htm


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

North Korea basicly likes to poke at us from time to time. To see how far they can get away with things before we start to get angry. China is like the big brother who sits on the sidelines waiting for America to get pissed. As soon as we do, China steps in and stands in front of North Korea and says, "I don't think so."

So what we have here is a serious dilemma. In fact, it is so serious that if China for some reason decides that the USA is no longer a nation worth trading with they will cripple our economy first before they would even cause war.

All of my studying ivolves China in World War 3. All of the prophecies. China and the various underdeveloped countries. When you have a country like China, who in 50 years goes from being an underdeveloped Communist brutal dictatorship to a Communist super-monster thats filled with power both militarily and econimicly, you are going to have to get ready for something to happen between them and us. Communism will not fall on it's own. It needs to be defeated.

In the animal kingdom when one wolf senses that another wolf is injured, the whole pack turns on it. Thats what is going to happen with all of the countries that will be involved in the war against the USA. The countries will get greedy and see an open window for power and control and because of their present situation they will be unable to stop themselves from trying to take it. And the worst part is that each country has their own reasons for doing it.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*THE BIBLE CODE:*


The words "Joel", "Ezekiel", "Magog War", "Vatic" "Apocalyptic", "Premonitory", "Prophetic", "registered", "written", "recorded", "2009" -"2010", "Israel", "Egypt", "Jordan", "Ethiopia", "tribes of Ephraim", "Manasseh", "Reuben", "Libya", "Russia", "China", "USA", "Japan", "Hawaii", "lion", "grizzlybear", "vulture", "eagle", "leopard", "panther", "tiger", "extermination", "destruction", "extinction", "annihilation", "ransack", "vaporize" "evaporate", and "steam" all appear encoded together in the Bible Code.


http://www.hiddencodes.com/magog_war.htm <---- See the code for yourself.


*NOTE:*

This is very interesting because the Bible Code also gives the date of 2006 for the beginning of World War 3. And it involves many of those countries. So perhaps for the next 3 years after 2006 things will begin to escalate even more and then they will reach their peak in 2009? Could be. I guess we will all just have to wait and see. Either way though, World War 3 is right around the corner.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Its also important to note that World War 2 didn't really get heated until a couple of years into the war. I think we can expect the same for World War 3. 

World War 2 started out With Germany invading its neighbors, and again I think we can expect the same from China in World War 3.

So I think that last Bible Code prediction was right on the money, because it only makes sense that it will start in 2006 (like the code says) and then all the countries in that last prediction will have joined in by 2OO9.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*THE BIBLE CODE:*


The words "Los Angeles", "California", "bush", "cheney", "missile", "China", "destruction" "devestation", "destroyed and desolate", were all found encoded togther in the Bible code.

The words "Bush", "Cheney", "devil", "demon", "permitted", "illuminated", "butchery", and sacrifice were all found encoded together in the Bible Code.

The words "Pestilence", "Earthquake", "Poison", "Annihilation", "Destruction", "ruination", "devastation", "rocket", "projectile","missile" "Babylon (USA?)", and "China" were all found encoded together in the Bible Code.

The words ,"sacrifice", "butchery", "demon", "devil", "authorized", "Cheney", "permitted", "Bush", "demon", "devil", "Beam", "shooting" and "fire", "March", and "August" all appear encoded together in the Bible Code. 


http://www.hiddencodes.com/los_angeles.htm <----- See the code for yourself.


*NOTE:*

Obviously this code signifies some kind of attack from China on Los Angeles California. It gives the months of August and March as possible dates but no year next to them. If I had to guess I would say that it would be between next year (2006) and the year 2010. But thats just my guess.
It's an interesting code though. Because China's generals have been talking about nuking Los Angeles for quite some time now.

The sickest part about this prediction though is that is says that Bush and Cheney will have permitted the attack on Los Angeles! Yep...that sounds like them alright.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*THE BIBLE CODE:*

The words "Alaska", "Holocaust", "from", "Nuclear", "Missile", "Crushed", "Beaten", "Cataclysm", "Pounded", "by", from", and, "Iraq" all appear encoded together in the Bible Code.


*NOTE:*

Alaska is one of our major sources of oil here in the U.S. And it would make sense to me why terrorists from Iraq would seek to set off an explosion somewhere near the pipelines out there. Or just anywhere that would cause problems for our economy for that matter.

Just because the prediction lists Iraq as one of the countries involved, does not necessarily mean that the attack will come from the country of Iraq itself, but rather it could mean that the attack will come from someone who is from Iraq or who has close ties to it.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*THE BIBLE CODE:*

The Words "White House", "February - March", "Holocaust", "Devestation" "Chemical", "Poison" And "Catastrophe" all appear encoded together in the Bible Code.


*NOTE:*

No date and no year were found next to this prediction. So what does that tell me? It tells me that if it's going to happen at all it's going to happen within the next 6 years. And the Bible code lists 2006 as the Beginning of World War 3 and then 2009 as being all out World War with over 13 countries being involved by that time.

So it could happen any year from now. It could happen next year! Who knows. I just know that if it happens at all it has to be before 2012.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

*THE "BLUEPRINT" FOR WORLD WAR 3*


So we have China. Eating up oil and strengthening their military daily. Not stocking up on defensive weapons mainly, but it is OFFENSE that is their primary goal at the moment.

Then we have Iran, who trades weapons and oil with China. In fact it was Iran who announced that in the long run it would prefer to have China as it's main purchaser for it's oil and it would like to replace Japan with China. Why do they want it this way? One could only guess...that is if they didn't realize that this has all been prophesized already. Yes Iran and China will become partners. It will be the Arab and Chinese army that will cause the biggest threat to the World during World War 3, and Iran will play a key part in this process.

Then, we have North Korea and Syria who are already causing problems for America. North Korea with it's broken promises and lies, and Syria with it's aid to "terrorists" and "insurgents" in Iraq. 

And let's not forget about Libya, my goodness, how could we? They have pulled the wool right over our eyes. Sure, they made an announcement awhile back that they were going to stop their production of Nuclear weapons as well as eliminate their program all-together, and so they have since fallen into the backround and out of the eyes of the media (for more reasons than one). But they are still as dangerous as ever, and much of this has to do with the fact that Libya, who has been continuing their Nuclear activities, never shut down their program at all but instead just took it out of the open and brought it "undercover" so to speak.

Syria and Libya have become Allies. They will be this way during World War 3. I will quickly post how both sides will look so that everyone can already get the full picture of what major countries are going to be involved and on what side during World War 3. 

And the African nations who will join China and her Arab allies will be the same African nations who have been partaking in "ethnic cleansing" operations within their country and who are responsible for the atrocities commited in Ruwanda in the 1990's. They are the same African nations who bought weapons from China, and who were also GIVEN weapons for free by China to help with their little human eradication process. So there we will have African nations joining as well.


*And then for the other side:* 


USA is a no brainer. We may not like the fact that we will have to engage in this war, but we will definately have no choice, as we will become a prime target and threat to China and her other allies. 

And then Britain of course, who I must say is equivalent to North Korea as far as humping a countries leg is concerned. And I mean that in the highest respect to the British. But if America goes to war, you can bet that Britain will be there right beside her. And it's not the British people who choose this necessarily. It's always the people who control the British people, and that = the British Government. Whether they want to admit it or not. Hey don't feel bad though Britain, we have it the same way over here in our "free" country too.

And Russia. This one might come as a surprise to some. But when China invades Russian territory (Most likely sometime in 2006), according to what prophesies I have studied and this is the single best date I could come up with, Russia will have no choice but to side with USA and Britain. It's either that or they are on their own against the red monster China and her allies and in which case they would surely be defeated before they could snap, because China has purposely been doing "pretend skirmishes" with Russia purposely so that they can get a handle on what they will be up against when it comes time to invade.

Add that to the fact that China has been building what some people like to call an "invasion road", which could serve no other purpose other than for their land forces (of which they have many) to invade swiftly and accurately, and you have yourself the perfect recipe for a surprise attack. Russia will not know what hit them, and the worst part is that by partaking in these military exercises with China, they have uncovered their forces and defenses so now all that China has to do when it's ready is go back to what they saw when they had these so called "fake skirmishes" with the Russian Bear.

And make no mistake, we need Russia on our side when all this comes down. As "weak" as many people say that Russia has become over the years, their location and expertise on China will be absolutely essential for when World War 3 goes into motion.

Egypt. Yes, Egypt will play a part in this war as well. The only problem is that I can't say 100% for sure what side they will be on. But, if I had to guess, I would say they will side with America and her allies and if I go by one of the master prophets Mr. Edgar Cayce who I both love and respect, I would knot that he did mention that there would be a place in or close to Egypt that will become like a lifeline for American forces during this war. A straight of some sort I believe. So....I would guess that Egypt will side with America. And we will need them too, otherwise we will definately lose the battle on the Middle Eastern Continent.

And the last part, my friends, for all of you to recognize, is that when Humans go to war with eachother and inflict mass casualties on eachother, the Earth responds in catastrophic ways. And yes, this is how Mother Nature works. The Earth reacts as a type of mirror to Human actions and when we kill our brothers and sisters, regardless of what reason we come up with, or they come up with, we will be causing some major reactions from the Earth.

So basicly, expect that during this entire War, we will see Earth changes and calamities like we have never before seen. And so as this war will also be on the same scale, and will go down in history as perhaps the single worst war that Humanity has ever created for itself, so to can we expect the Earth to bring monumental changes which will alter our planet forever. 

And it has all been prophesized folks. It will all culminate in the most Earth shaking event of all, right at the end of the war, the Pole Shift, which will literally flip our World upside down and turn whole rivers into canyons and lakes into deserts and vise versa and will cover entire Continents with water and will blast mountains apart and create new ones and cover lands with hot lava and mud which will eventually dry and create new Continents and will create tidle waves as big as you could imagine that will wash away landscapes and cover whole cities and in the end, after War and the Earth events have both finished with their purpose, Our World will be a much better place to live in.

And yes it will be set back for awhile in technology. And yes, the Earth's population will be drasticly reduced. And yes, people will be forced to once again live in community type situations and cover eachothers backs instead of their own, but Evil and crime will have dropped to almost 0%, and we will once again be able to understand our real purpose for being on this planet which has always been and will always be to be keepers of the Earth while we are here and to not only look after eachother but also all other life that exists around us.

So that is my report. That is what is going to happen. There is nothing Humanity can do other than accept prepare, and pray, and look past the next 6 years instead get caught up in all the death and destruction that will come with them, because one thing everyone should know is that there is a reason behind every thing that happens, and nothing ever happens by accident, and it's all a part of the Creators plan to make this World a "showcase" planet instead of hotbed for evil which it has basicly been for the past 15,000 years or so.

And thats about all I have to say about it. lol.


SUMMATION:


*ONE SIDE:*

CHINA
SYRIA
LIBYA
IRAN
NORTH KOREA
AFRICAN NATIONS


*THE OTHER SIDE:*

USA
BRITAIN
RUSSIA
EGYPT (THIS ONE IS NOT A DEFINATE LIKE THE OTHERS)


Of course other countries will be involved in this war, but those are the main key players anyways.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Japan won't be here for too much longer. No offense, but Japan is due to subside beneath the ocean very soon. I know that sounds crazy, but with the "Great Earthquake" that is suppose to occur in 2006 for Japan and with the Tidle Waves and such that will strike that Island it will no longer even be a player in terms of countries and politics. And if it isn't there how could it be?

But actually, I hope the people that are living in Japan are hearing me on this. That country is due for disaster. It has been prophesized for over 50 years but the time is now for that country to endur the greatest of it's disasters yet.

I would say to the people in Japan to move as fast as they can, and I am not joking, because when the time comes for that country to fall many people will die along with it. And that is not a pretty picture at all.

As for the other countries listed, well, I am sure there will be others involved, but none more so than the ones I have already listed. Besides, as the war goes on, other countries will no doubt join in on both sides. But the countries that I listed will start out as the key players and will remain that way until the end of the war. They are the countries who will make the biggest difference as far as the outcome is concerned.

And as far as China's communism is concerned. It will fall too. But not until after the war. Communism falling on it's own is not plausible when it comes to China. It has to be shaken out of them. And that is what this War will do.


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> No my friend, but I do take this stuff extremely seriously.



Dude, it seems I have enough "friends" nowadays, thanks.  And the fact you take this stuff seriously is downright scarey.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

I am almost 100% confident that just about everything I am stating here is true. And yes, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong if it turns out that I am. But I do not believe that after all the work and energy I and many others have put into this information that these events will not occur. 

And as for my beliefs in our Creator, I never question His/Her prophecies until I have proof that they won't happen. And even then I am more inclinded to chalk it up as "something must have changed it" rather than "Our Creators prophecies were wrong".


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

The Truth is that we would not be where we are today without the wars we've had in the past. And that does not mean that I condone war, not at all, war is wrong. However, it is all a learning process.

There is something much bigger controlling countries which go to war with eachother and determine eachothers future and outcome. You might say, whew, glad thats over, or, man, the suffering that we had to go through to get here, but in the end, GOOD, or should i say, GOD, always wins.

These governments run around thinking they run this World. They are crazy if they believe that to be the truth. Every country has it's own destiny. And no matter what country wins a war, thats the way it was meant to be. And the 1,000 years of peace that we have coming very soon is completely pre-destined for our planet. 

As I said before, nothing happens by accident, everything has been pre-planned before it happens. If not, we would have chaos. And God does not operate by chaos. Thats the darkness. Light operates by Love and Guidance. And it is love and guidance that we will receive after this stuff is all over.

The Light has always been stronger than the Dark. This is a fact. You can test this theory out for yourself by applying Truth to what I am saying here.

For example:

If you put Light into a Dark place, what happens? The Darkness dissapears and the Light illuminates the area. But what happens if you do the opposite? If you try and put Darkness into Light, the Darkness will still dissapear, but the Light will remain and keep on shining. This is one way of testing out how the Light is stronger than the Dark. And it always has been, and it always will be.


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I am almost 100% confident that just about everything I am stating here is true. And yes, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong if it turns out that I am. But I do not believe that after all the work and energy I and many others have put into this information that these events will not occur.
> 
> And as for my beliefs in our Creator, I never question His/Her prophecies until I have proof that they won't happen. And even then I am more inclinded to chalk it up as "something must have changed it" rather than "Our Creators prophecies were wrong".



You mean there are more like you?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

It's also important to note that this year (2006) might feature a Major Earthquake for Japan. *It might not, however, be the cause of Japan sinking beneath the ocean.*

All I know is that this year we should expect the quake, but after that it could be any year between 2006-2012 that Japan goes under the sea. There is not a set date though. It would obviously most likely happen around 2009-2012 though when Earth will be producing disasters like never before seen and may possibly culminate in the Pole Shift which will be the grand finale anytime between those 3 years as well.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

If we all looked up and faced it, this World War 3 disaster could be avoided, but ignorance and denial always ensure that we will get the full force and the most extreme consequences, because it strikes when we least expect it and when we are the least prepared. People say ignorance is bliss, but only for so long. 

We create our own reality by our thoughts and actions. For every action or non-action there is a consequence. When we give our minds and our responsibility away, we give our lives away. If enough of us do it, we give the World away. This is precisely what we have been doing throughout known Human history. This is why the few have always controlled the masses.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

I have reason to believe that the majority of World War 3 will be fought on the Middle Eastern Continent. I also have reason to believe that while all of our "fighters" are out there fighting World War 3, America will be left vulnerable and much much more easy for the government to introduce it's new policies and restrictions for the people. To take the action required with their plan for their "New World Order". After all, who will be here to stop them? Not while blood is being shed everywhere and the entire World is on the brink of Nuclear disaster!

I also have reason to believe that one of the biggest battles of World War 3 will be fought in and around Egypt. the very place where much of the Sun worshipping and black magic nonsense started in the first place.

_*And the rivers of Egypt ran red, and they were as blood.*_

Of course they will be. With all the dead bodies that will be strewn about, and many of them falling into rivers, I would be suprised to see a river around that area that will not be filled with blood. The blood of all the dead soldiers. From both sides of the World.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Yes. There are many more like me. For example.....


*Poll: Americans Say World War III Likely** 


By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer * 


*WASHINGTON -* Americans are far more likely than the Japanese to expect another world war in their lifetime, according to AP-Kyodo polling 60 years after World War II ended. Most people in both countries believe the first use of a nuclear weapon is never justified. 

Those findings come six decades after the United States dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The war claimed about 400,000 U.S. troops around the world, more than three times that many Japanese troops and at least 300,000 Japanese civilians.
Out of the ashes, Japan and the United States forged a close political alliance. Americans and Japanese now generally have good feelings about each other.

But people in the two countries have very different views on everything from the U.S. use of the atomic bomb in 1945, fears of North Korea and the American military presence in Japan.

Some of the widest differences came on expectations of a new world war.
Six in 10 Americans said they think such a war is likely, while only one-third of the Japanese said so, according to polling done in both countries for The Associated Press and Kyodo, the Japanese news service.

"Man's going to destroy man eventually. When that will be, I don't know," said Gaye Lestaeghe of Freeport, La.

Some question whether that war has arrived, with fighting dragging on in Afghanistan and Iraq as part of the U.S. campaign against terrorism.
"I feel like we're in a world war right now," said Susan Aser, a real estate agent from Rochester, N.Y.

The Japanese were less likely than Americans to expect a world war, less worried about the threat from North Korea and less inclined to say a first strike with nuclear weapons could be justified.

"The Japanese people take peace for granted," said Hiroya Sato, 20, of Tokyo. "The Japanese people are not interested in things like war."
President Truman decided to try to end the war by dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima on Aug. 6, 1945, and on Nagasaki three days later.

The first two atomic bombs killed tens of thousands in Hiroshima and Nagasaki; thousands more gradually died with severe radiation burns. Those bombings led to Japan's announcement on Aug. 15 that it would surrender.

Two-thirds of Americans say the use of atomic bombs was unavoidable. Only 20 percent of Japanese felt that way and three-fourths said it was not necessary. Just one-half of Americans approve of the use of the atomic bombs on Japan.

Bob Garapedian, an 81-year-old retiree from Colchester, Conn., was preparing to fly fighter planes over the planned invasion of Japan when the war ended. Asked whether using the atomic bomb was appropriate, he said without hesitation: "Absolutely!"

But military instructor Hugh "D.J." Carlen, who lives near Fort Knox, Ky., said: "I don't think we really needed to do it. We darn near had the country starved to death. We could have effected a blockade."
Skepticism about the bombings is widespread in Japan.

"I often hear the bombings were not necessary," said Toyokazu Katsumi, a 27-year-old engineer from Yokohama. "They just wanted to experiment with them." 

For 63-year-old Masashi Muroi of Tokyo, the attacks with atomic bombs "were mass, indiscriminate killings and perhaps violated international law." 

For younger people, World War II is something seen only on newsreel footage, in the movies and in history books. For those who lived through it, the memories are vivid. 

Hideko Mori, a 71-year-old Tokyo housewife, said that as a child in Nagano in central Japan, she and her neighbors had to take refuge to avoid American air raids. 

"Around the time I was in the 5th grade, when we went to school, instead of attending classes, we plowed the school grounds and planted potatoes and pumpkins, and we dug up bomb shelters," she said. 
People in both countries overwhelmingly perceive the other country favorably now. 

Four in five Americans have an upbeat view of Japan and two-thirds of Japanese feel that way about the U.S. But older people were not quite as enthusiastic. 

"I dislike the Japanese military, but not the Japanese people," World War II veteran William Aleshire, 84, of Peachtree City, Ga., said during a recent visit to a war memorial in Washington. 
Some of the good feelings may stem from the close cooperation between the U.S. and Japan in postwar rebuilding and from America's financial support. 

During the years when American troops occupied Japan, economic reforms enabled Japanese farmers to own their own land. With U.S. help, Japan grew into an economic power. 

"The Americans contributed so much to the reconstruction of Japan after the war. I think their influence was very significant and positive," said 62-year-old Yasuzo Higuchi of Tokyo. "Even now, because of their presence in our country, North Korea can't attack us." 

Americans' good will about the Japanese extends to their government, with six in 10 in the U.S. regarding it as trustworthy. But more than half of the Japanese distrust Washington. 

Asked whether a first strike with nuclear weapons ever could be justified, a majority in both countries said no. But Americans were twice as likely as the Japanese to think such a strike might be justified in some circumstances. 

Since the war, the U.S. military presence in Japan has come to be accepted in most of Japan, but stirs resentment on the island of Okinawa. 
The Japanese are evenly split on whether the U.S. troops should stay or go, the polling found. Three-fourths of Americans said this country should keep its military in Japan. 

"Any country that will allow us to keep a base there as a forward lookout post, I think we ought to do it," said Wade Hill, a copier technician who lives near Dallas. "We need a buffer zone." 

The strongest rivalry between the U.S. and Japan now is economic. The presence of Americans products has increased in Japan, though Tokyo continues to have a large trade surplus with Washington. 

Japanese are most likely to name the U.S. as the most important country for their economy, possibly a reflection of the success among Americans for Japanese automobiles and electronics. Americans were most likely to name China as most important for the U.S. economy. 

Trade tensions have increased between the United States and China after America ran up a $162 billion deficit with China last year, the largest ever with a single country. 

Some see economic competition as the most important battle between countries these days. 

"I don't think it will be like World War II," said James DiVita of Sandusky, Ohio, who works in manufacturing. "It will be more of a silent takeover with dollars, buying up companies." 

The poll of 1,000 adults in the United States was conducted for the AP by Ipsos, an international polling company, from July 5-10 and the poll of 1,045 eligible voters in Japan was conducted for Kyodo by the Public Opinion Research Center from July 1-3. Each poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. 

___ 
Associated Press writers Chisaki Watanabe and Aiko Hayashi in Tokyo, and AP's manager of surveys Trevor Tompson contributed to this report. 
On the Net: 

An interactive detailing poll questions and responses is available at: 

http://wid.ap.org/polls/japanus/index.html

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...rld_war_ii_poll


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

You DO realize you've rattled on for 6 pages without anyone getting a word in edgewise?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Ok guys I am done.

Once again I apolagize for posting all of that stuff at once. But like I said it won't be happening again. I just needed to get all of this stuff out and it just so happens that this was the quickest way that I could think of.

One time deal though. This is important.


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

What it amounts to is you spamming this board with your doomsday agenda.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

It took me over 3 years to research this stuff and I promise that it won't take you that long to read it. =)


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## Gunny (Apr 13, 2006)

Here's a prediction for you ..... I doubt ANYONE will read it except those into self-torture.  

If you seriously wanted to capture a reader's attention, you would post ONE article and discuss it with whoever.  Regardless the topic, when you post so much crap at once you intimidate the reader.  It would take them 3 years to respond.


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## Avatar4321 (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I am going to list a mix of current information and psychic predictions for the World War that is supposed to occur within the next 3 years involving China, Libya, Syria, USA, Russia, and a few others.
> 
> All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics who have been tested over time and who have proven themselves time and time again.
> 
> ...



WW3 is over. We won it in 1989


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2006)

Avatar how can you say that World War 3 was in the 80's? Have you not been watching whats going on in the World with Iran,ect.?

I'm just curious because many people claim the same thing. That Desert Storm was World War 3 or the beginning of it anyways. I disagree though because I think our tensions with Iran and China will spark off World War 3 officially.


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## Avatar4321 (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I am almost 100% confident that just about everything I am stating here is true. And yes, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong if it turns out that I am. But I do not believe that after all the work and energy I and many others have put into this information that these events will not occur.
> 
> And as for my beliefs in our Creator, I never question His/Her prophecies until I have proof that they won't happen. And even then I am more inclinded to chalk it up as "something must have changed it" rather than "Our Creators prophecies were wrong".



I knew a guy who claimed that WW3 would start several years ago. He said that if he was wrong he would stop trying to make prophecies. He was very wrong. Didnt stop him from coming up with something else. 

Fact is the man was crazy unfortunately. The guy lost his keys once and was like "What future sign is God trying to show me from me losing my keys". Scared the heck out of a friend of mine.

We don't have to worry about WW3. I think we have more to worry about a civil war at home. but even then i think we are a few years off.


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## Avatar4321 (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Avatar how can you say that World War 3 was in the 80's? Have you not been watching whats going on in the World with Iran,ect.?
> 
> I'm just curious because many people claim the same thing. That Desert Storm was World War 3 or the beginning of it anyways. I disagree though because I think our tensions with Iran and China will spark off World War 3 officially.



Quite easily. In 1989 we ended our 45 year war with the Soviet Union that was played out through strategic movements throughout the world.


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## dilloduck (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> It took me over 3 years to research this stuff and I promise that it won't take you that long to read it. =)



Could you document your research material for us ? I'm not cancelling my trip to Japan on the advice of someone who has been reading too many comic books.


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> It took me over 3 years to research this stuff and I promise that it won't take you that long to read it. =)



You wasted your time. There are lots of words that "appear" in the Bible code. Hell, Mother Mary appears on gilled cheese sandwiches. If a seraphim were to appear in my undershorts, would this mean that armageddon would start in my ass? Take your whacked out, LSD induced research elsewhere and stop spamming this board.


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## BaronVonBigmeat (Apr 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> And as for my beliefs in our Creator, I never question His/Her prophecies until I have proof that they won't happen. And even then I am more inclinded to chalk it up as "something must have changed it" rather than "Our Creators prophecies were wrong".



Admittedly, I am not a bible scholar. However, I do seem to remember that if a prophet is from God, then his prophecies will come true 100% of the time, and there is nothing anyone can do to change it. If he makes a prophecy which doesn't come to pass--like Jeane Dixon and Nostradamus--then he is a false prophet. 

Also, it probably would have been a better idea to condense all this down into a Cliff's Notes 1-post version, and then have a link to wherever you copy/pasted all this stuff from.


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## insein (Apr 13, 2006)

Where are they coming from lately?  We need a tinfoil hat forum just to sort all of this crap.


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## Kagom (Apr 14, 2006)

Holy hell, man.  You're a flippin' jutjob


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 14, 2006)

BaronVonBigmeat said:
			
		

> Admittedly, I am not a bible scholar. However, I do seem to remember that if a prophet is from God, then his prophecies will come true 100% of the time, and there is nothing anyone can do to change it. If he makes a prophecy which doesn't come to pass--like Jeane Dixon and Nostradamus--then he is a false prophet.
> 
> Also, it probably would have been a better idea to condense all this down into a Cliff's Notes 1-post version, and then have a link to wherever you copy/pasted all this stuff from.



I respect your opinion. 

I take a different viewpoint about times and dates for psychic predictions though. 

I believe in psychic ability. I believe that true psychics really can see whats coming in the future. I do not believe that they should slap a date and a time on their predictions however, because time is an illusion, and in reality, it doesn't even exist. 

They do not get visions that come stock with a clock watch. Or 99% of the time I am willing to bet that they do not see time in their visions, or anything to do with time at all. In fact, the "awake" psychics (not those like Edgar Cayce), have to look at their visions in retrospect. What are the people wearing in their visions? What do the buildings look like? What do the cars look like? What do they see that could place that vision at a future time frame? It's not easy for them, and much of the time they have to guess at when they are going to happen. 

I know they can see visions, and I know they can see things that are coming, the actual outcomes of events if we allow them to occur. And in some cases events that we have no control over. 

I do however believe that the information in this thread is correct and is about as accurate as you may find for the next 6 year period starting from this year (2006). For many different reasons, but lets just say that I believe that the next 6 years includes all of these predictions within that time frame. 

I am not basing it off of old dates that have worn out. I am basing it off of the Bible Code along with the Mayan Calendar along with just pure visions along with the tribulation period along with my own gut feelings along with a bunch of other things. That is how I figured out the time frame. At least what I believe to be the time frame anyways. 

I never go by what a psychic says when they give an exact date for their vision. I just go by their visions, and try to do my best to see the truth in their occurences. It wasn't easy narrowing them down to the next 6 years, it definately took alot of studying and work on my own part, but I really do believe that the final product is correct. And I guess that only "time" will really tell.


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## Annie (Apr 14, 2006)

Pull it down tight!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 14, 2006)

Pull what down Kath?

Not my thread I hope. I don't wish my thread here to interfere with anyone elses. And I don't see why it would.

For those people who don't like what I have to say here, I would just question them why they are bothering to even comment in it.

We do still live in a free country right? Where all of us have the right to our own little threads where we can post our own opinions? Regardless of how big or small our thread may be? And as long as we respect eachothers opinions? And treat eachother with decency and fairness? At least thats the country I thought I was living in....

I haven't said one negative comment towards anyone since I joined this board. And I am very happy to be a member of it. I like the way you guys are sharing each of your opinions in this thread. And alot of you have some very good insight to offer me and others who are reading what you have to say. You may not have noticed it already, but all of your opinions have differed even slightly from the others. And thats what makes us all unique.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 14, 2006)

Also, I was just curious, but does anyone in here believe in something called "The New World Order"? Which George Bush Sr. has stated plainly is one of his ultimate goals?

Basicly, the planning for a One World Bank and One World Government? Any of you guys have any opinions on that?


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## Said1 (Apr 14, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> You wasted your time. There are lots of words that "appear" in the Bible code. Hell, Mother Mary appears on gilled cheese sandwiches. If a seraphim were to appear in my undershorts, would this mean that armageddon would start in my ass? Take your whacked out, LSD induced research elsewhere and stop spamming this board.




B-b-but I thought we were falling for "it", or was that just you?


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## GotZoom (Apr 14, 2006)

I predict.....April 15, 2006...A.M. hours....

I will eat breakfast.


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## Said1 (Apr 14, 2006)

GotZoom said:
			
		

> I predict.....April 15, 2006...A.M. hours....
> 
> I will eat breakfast.





Me too. Eggs over hard. Some kind of meat....bacon....and a starch...potatoes....


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 14, 2006)

Alright guys please get over the "spamming" the board accusations. I am in now way spamming the board. I created a large thread yes, but I only created one, and I did not flood the entire board with different threads. That would be spamming the board.

And secondly, has no one here heard of the New World Order? Where have you guys been? There is information on the subject everywhere. Who doesn't know about the New World Order? Thats the real question.


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## GotZoom (Apr 14, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Alright guys please get over the "spamming" the board accusations. I am in now way spamming the board. I created a large thread yes, but I only created one, and I did not flood the entire board with different threads. That would be spamming the board.
> 
> And secondly, has no one here heard of the New World Order? Where have you guys been? There is information on the subject everywhere. Who doesn't know about the New World Order? Thats the real question.


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## Annie (Apr 14, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Me too. Eggs over hard. Some kind of meat....bacon....and a starch...potatoes....


How did you KNOW I was working on Sunday Brunch Menu? :shocked:


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## Said1 (Apr 14, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> How did you KNOW I was working on Sunday Brunch Menu? :shocked:




How did I know brunch was at your house? I'm partial to eggs benedict sans the boiled egg - fried it better for me. But you knew that, right?


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## Annie (Apr 14, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> How did I know brunch was at your house? I'm partial to eggs benedict sans the boiled egg - fried it better for me. But you knew that, right?


Yeah, that's cool, 7:30 though. Just as long as it isn't your 'psychic abilities'. Whew! 

I do poached eggs for eggs benedict, should I skip the egg for you?


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## Said1 (Apr 14, 2006)

No, no. Fry it and break the yoke. Load the sauce on, extra butter and put some on the potatoes, svp. No fruit, what's the point, eh? :teeth:


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## Annie (Apr 14, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> No, no. Fry it and break the yoke. Load the sauce on, extra butter and put some on the potatoes, svp. No fruit, what's the point, eh? :teeth:


Fruit will be on the table, peeled, cored, and sliced!  Oh you can drink your fruit too! Orange, grapefruit, tomato! I may even give ya a glass of champagne for your strawberries.


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## Said1 (Apr 14, 2006)

Yep. I'll have  glasses of champaigne and strawberries, sans le strawberries. And I"ll bring my own funnel.     :talk2:


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## Annie (Apr 14, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Yep. I'll have  glasses of champaigne and strawberries, sans le strawberries. And I"ll bring my own funnel.     :talk2:


Oh my, really no fruit!  

Ok, muffin, fried egg, Canadian bacon (of course), and lots of Hollandaise! And pitcher of champagne. Maybe I should do Sangria? :fifty:


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## GotZoom (Apr 14, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Oh my, really no fruit!
> 
> Ok, muffin, fried egg, Canadian bacon (of course), and lots of Hollandaise! And pitcher of champagne. Maybe I should do Sangria? :fifty:



Mimosas.


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## Annie (Apr 14, 2006)

GotZoom said:
			
		

> Mimosas.


Good idea, she gets her fruit!


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## Said1 (Apr 14, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Oh my, really no fruit!
> 
> Ok, muffin, fried egg, Canadian bacon (of course), and lots of Hollandaise! And pitcher of champagne. Maybe I should do Sangria? :fifty:



Yes. I LOVE Sangria - Red wine, Grande Marnier, pinappple juice and crushed ice.


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## Said1 (Apr 14, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Good idea, she gets her fruit!




For sure. Wouldn't want me to get scruvey or anything.


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## Annie (Apr 14, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> For sure. Wouldn't want me to get scruvey or anything.


Ok, we'll do mimosas when the kids get done with cleaning up and leaving for school!  It should be 5 o'clock, somewhere!  Ok, Sangria too! If it's nice, patio!


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## Rico (Apr 15, 2006)

predicting the future that is complete horse hockey. This will be followed closely by a skeptic responding with the comment BULLSHIT!!! 

Damn I'm good at this prediction stuff. Move over Nostradamus, wake up Edgar Cayce, tell Jeane Dixon she'd dead. No one can touch my abilities.....
Now where's Mulder and Scully?


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## Annie (Apr 15, 2006)

Rico said:
			
		

> predicting the future that is complete horse hockey. This will be followed closely by a skeptic responding with the comment BULLSHIT!!!
> 
> Damn I'm good at this prediction stuff. Move over Nostradamus, wake up Edgar Cayce, tell Jeane Dixon she'd dead. No one can touch my abilities.....
> Now where's Mulder and Scully?


The new kid gets it. Those that profess to 'see' into the future, probably because they see themselves as the 'chosen', are heading for a fall. All of you that think you understand the incomprehensible, beware.


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## Said1 (Apr 15, 2006)

Rico said:
			
		

> predicting the future that is complete horse hockey. This will be followed closely by a skeptic responding with the comment BULLSHIT!!!
> 
> Damn I'm good at this prediction stuff. Move over Nostradamus, wake up Edgar Cayce, tell Jeane Dixon she'd dead. No one can touch my abilities.....
> Now where's Mulder and Scully?



Forget that. I need to know if I'll be moving at the end of August. What do you "see" happening?


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## Annie (Apr 15, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Forget that. I need to know if I'll be moving at the end of August. What do you "see" happening?


I 'see' a new 6th grade next year. The 8th grade will be 'difficult' to say the least. The 7th grade will be alright-but all that is in my school.

Nationally, Bush will stumble without Rumsfeld, the 'generals' will have won. But it won't change the tenor of the WOT.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

Alright well I guess I am stunned because I was unaware that so many on this board, probably due to lack of information, are not familiar with the coming New World Order and what the "Controllers" of this country have in store for us. 

Fear not though my friends, because it just so happens that I have some information that I'd like to post for you. Just to give you a heads up on what these deceivers have planned for us. I think you will like what you see here, because it may give you a different perspective on the situation.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

*THE NEW WORLD ORDER* 


The term New World Order (NWO) has been used by numerous politicians through the ages, and is a generic term used to refer to a worldwide conspiracy being orchestrated by an extremely powerful and influential group of genetically-related individuals (at least at the highest echelons) which include many of the world's wealthiest people, top political leaders, and corporate elite, as well as members of the so-called Black Nobility of Europe (dominated by the British Crown) whose goal is to create a One World (fascist) Government, stripped of nationalistic and regional boundaries, that is obedient to their agenda. 

Listen to the Zionist* banker, Paul Warburg: 

"We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent." (February 17, 1950, as he testified before the US Senate). 

Their intention is to effect complete and total control over every human being on the planet and to dramatically reduce the world's population by two thirds. While the name New World Order is the term most frequently used today to loosely refer to anyone involved in this conspiracy, the study of exactly who makes up this group is a complex and intricate one. For further research sources, please see the side bar on the left. 

In 1992, Dr John Coleman published Conspirators Hierarchy: The Story of the Committee of 300. With laudable scholarship and meticulous research, Dr Coleman identifies the players and carefully details the New World Order agenda of worldwide domination and control. On page 161 of the Conspirators Hierarchy, Dr Coleman accurately summarizes the intent and purpose of the Committee of 300 as follows: 

"A One World Government and one-unit monetary system, under permanent non-elected hereditary oligarchists who self-select from among their numbers in the form of a feudal system as it was in the Middle Ages. In this One World entity, population will be limited by restrictions on the number of children per family, diseases, wars, famines, until 1 billion people who are useful to the ruling class, in areas which will be strictly and clearly defined, remain as the total world population. 

There will be no middle class, only rulers and the servants. All laws will be uniform under a legal system of world courts practicing the same unified code of laws, backed up by a One World Government police force and a One World unified military to enforce laws in all former countries where no national boundaries shall exist. 

The system will be on the basis of a welfare state; those who are obedient and subservient to the One World Government will be rewarded with the means to live; those who are rebellious will simply be starved to death or be declared outlaws, thus a target for anyone who wishes to kill them. Privately owned firearms or weapons of any kind will be prohibited."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

*Why the Conspiracy is relatively Unknown* 


The sheer magnitude and complex web of deceit surrounding the individuals and organizations involved in this conspiracy is mind boggling, even for the most astute among us. Most people react with disbelief and skepticism towards the topic, unaware that they have been conditioned (brainwashed) to react with skepticism by institutional and media influences. 

Author and de-programmer Fritz Springmeier (The Top 13 Illuminati Bloodlines) says that most people have built in "slides" that short circuit the mind's critical examination process when it comes to certain sensitive topics. "Slides", Springmeier reports, is a CIA term for a conditioned type of response which dead ends a person's thinking and terminates debate or examination of the topic at hand. For example, the mention of the word "conspiracy" often solicits a slide response with many people. 

What most people believe to be "Public Opinion" is in reality carefully crafted and scripted propaganda designed to elicit a desired behavioral response from the public. Public opinion polls are really taken with the intent of gauging the public's acceptance of the New World Order's planned programs. A strong showing in the polls tells them that the programming is "taking", while a poor showing tells the NWO manipulators that they have to recast or "tweak" the programming until the desired response is achieved.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

*The NWO Modus Operandi* 


The NWO global conspirators manifest their agenda through the skilful manipulation of human emotions, especially fear. In the past centuries, they have repeatedly utilized a contrivance that NWO researcher and author David Icke has characterized in his latest book, The Biggest Secret, as Problem, Reaction, and Solution. 

The technique is as follows: NWO strategists create the Problem - by funding , assembling, and training an "opposition" group to stimulate turmoil in an established political power (sovereign country, region, continent, etc.) that they wish to impinge upon and thus create opposing factions in a conflict that the NWO themselves maneuvered into existence. In recent decades, so called opposition groups are usually identified in the media as 'freedom fighters' or 'liberators'. 

At the same time, the leader of the established political power where the conflict is being orchestrated is demonized and, on cue, referred to as 'another Hitler' (take your pick: Saddam Hussein, Milosevic, Kadaffi, etc.). The 'freedom fighters' are not infrequently assembled from a local criminal element (i.e. KLA, drug traffickers). 

In the spirit of true Machiavellian deceit, the same NWO strategists are equally involved in covertly arming and advising the leader of the established power as well (the NWO always profits from any armed conflict by loaning money, arming, and supplying all parties involved in a war). 

The conflict is drawn to the world stage by the controlled media outlets with a barrage of photos and video tape reports of horrific and bloody atrocities suffered by innocent civilians. The cry goes up "Something has to be done!" And that is the desired Reaction. 

The NWO puppeteers then provide the Solution by sending in UN 'Peace Keepers' (Bosnia) or a UN 'Coalition Force' (Gulf War) or NATO Bombers and then ground troops (Kosovo), or the military to 'search for Weapons of Mass Destruction', which of course are never found. Once installed, the 'peace keepers' never leave. The idea is to have NWO controlled ground troops in all major countries or strategic areas where significant resistance to the New World Order takeover is likely to be encountered.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

*Who is the NWO?* 


The corporate portion of the NWO is dominated by international bankers, oil barons and pharmaceutical cartels, as well as other major multinational corporations. The Royal Family of England, namely Queen Elizabeth II and the House of Windsor, (who are, in fact, descendants of the German arm of European Royalty - the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha family - changed the name to Windsor in 1914), are high level players in the oligarchy which controls the upper strata of the NWO. The decision making nerve centers of this effort are in London (especially the City of London), Basel Switzerland, and Brussels (NATO headquarters). 

The United Nations, along with all the agencies working under the UN umbrella, such as the World Health Organization (WHO), are full time players in this scheme. Similarly, NATO is a military tool of the NWO. 

The leaders of all major industrial countries like the United States, England, Germany, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, etc. (members of the "G7/G8" ) are active and fully cooperative participants in this conspiracy. In this century, the degree of control exerted by the NWO has advanced to the point that only certain hand-picked individuals, who are groomed and selected are even eligible to become the prime minister or president of countries like England, Germany, or The United States. 

It didn't matter whether Bill Clinton or Bob Dole won the Presidency in 1996, the results would have been the same. Both men are playing on the same team for the same ball club. Anyone who isn't a team player is taken out: i.e. President Kennedy, Ali Bhutto (Pakistan) and Aldo Moro (Italy). More recently, Admiral Borda and William Colby were also killed because they were either unwilling to go along with the conspiracy to destroy America, weren't cooperating in some capacity, or were attempting to expose/ thwart the takeover agenda.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

*The NWO's Role in Shaping History* 


Most of the major wars, political upheavals, and economic depression/recessions of the past 100 years (and earlier) were carefully planned and instigated by the machinations of these elites. They include The Spanish-American War (1898), World War I and World War II; The Great Depression; the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917; the Rise of Nazi Germany; the Korean War; the Vietnam War; the 1989-91 "fall" of Soviet Communism; the 1991 Gulf War; the War in Kosovo; and the two Iraq wars. Even the French Revolution was orchestrated into existence by elements of the NWO. 

The instigation of a trumped-up war as a cover for amassing fortunes can be dated back to at least the 12th Century when only a core group of nine members of the Knights Templar, the military arm of a secret society known as the Priory of Sion, kicked off the The Crusades that lasted for over a century and a half. A rift later developed between the Templars and the Priory of Sion when Jerusalem was lost to Saracen Turks in 1187. In 1307, the king of France, Philippe the Fair, coveted the wealth and was jealous of the Templars' power. 

The French king, being a puppet of the Priory of Sion, set out to arrest all the Templars in France on October 13. While many Templars were seized and tortured, including their Grand Master, Jacques de Molay, many other Templars (who had been tipped off) escaped. They eventually resurfaced in Portugal, in Malta (as the Knights of Malta) and later in Scotland as The Scottish Rites of Freemasonry, with Albert Pike playing a key role in defining a plan for establishing a world government. 

The acquisition and consolidation of ever greater wealth, natural resources, total political power, and control over others are the motivating forces which drive the decisions of the NWO leaders. The toll in human suffering and the loss of innocent lives are non issues for these individuals.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

*Novus Ordo Seclorum - The New World Order* 


The latin words "novus ordo seclorum" appear on the back of the US one dollar bill, below the pyramid and all-seeing eye. Above the pyramid are the latin words "annuit coeptis" (meaning annual assembly of enemies or friends)? 

Novus is latin for new or extraodinary; ordo means order, rank or class; seclorum or saecularis means relating to the world or secular age (it also refers to intervals of 100 years). Thus you have the assembly of the NEW WORLD ORDER. At the base of the pyramid are the Roman numerals for 1776. 

Many people have hypothesized that the Novus Ordo Seclorum is an old fraternal brotherhood of elites or enlightened ones (illuminatus) dedicated to a single goal: a the new world order or global union. This order would include a single global financial system and removal of all national boundaries to investment and trade. President Bush, in his inaugural address, used the words "the new world order" and "a thousand points of light." What exactly was he referring to? Why did these words suddenly appear on the geopolitical landscape? 

In 1776, the same year of the founding of the U.S., another important event occurred, the founding of the Illuminati -- meaning per Webster Dictionary: 1. a people who have or profess to have special intellectual or spiritual enlightenment or 2. Any of various societies, usually secretive, composed of such people. Illuminatus is the latin word for "light", hence the interesting concurrence between George Bushes famous inaugral line of "a thousand points of light." Founded in 1776 (the same year which appears at the base of the pyramid on the US $1 bill) by Adam Weishaupt in Germany. The Illuminati became a fraternity of brothers, with ties to Free Masonry in England, France and Germany, and involving such families as the Rothschilds. 

Some claim that George Bush, Henry Kissinger, the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, J.P. Morgan descendants, George Soros and other enligthened elites are part of a tightly knit fraternity who secretively meet to set global policy through the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations. Is this the fraternity from which a thousand points of light eminates? 

The masterful construction of global systems such as the rush to a Multilateral Agreement on Investment, Free Trade agreements, and electronic fund transfer systems development or a single global electronic currency should be considered with suspicion given that the media has helped to gain our consent to accept these new systems as good and for "salutary" reasons. 

The recent exposés by the Red Baron on Gold Eagle of the operations of the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA), controlled historically and currently primarily by the Rothschild house, are reasons to remain suspicious and alert. 

The recent announcement of the Swiss follows remarkably close on the heals of calamities in Asian markets and currencies. The confidence game is being exercised par excellence. One has to suspect the concurrence of these major events, their timing, and speed of introduction (e.g. the MAI) and their subsequent profound impact on the world. One must ask why now and to what end? Some might discount these suspicions of colluding forces as the ranting of a conspiracy fool. One cannot, however, discount the allure of power, wealth, and money which motivates men of the secular world who pursue the holiest of holies: absolute system control. 

Was George Bush foreshadowing the coming new world order with the Illuminati (the enlightened ones) bringing us "a thousand points of light" to show us the way? One must wonder why a common chorus is being sung as to the merits and benefits of global union, global common systems, and free trade marketed as the rational choice for all humankind to embrace. What we may now be witnessing is the final brush strokes of the master Illuminati, having created illusions and manufactured our consent through the power of affirmation, reptition, prestige and contagion. While we are asked to believe that hiearchies are being deconstructed, the reality is anything but that. A new "tower of Babel" is likely being systematically constructed with the ability to concentrate power and control through common systems.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 15, 2006)

There you go. That should give people a heads up on what the New World Order is and why it is a necessity that we don't allow the "Controllers" to put it into effect.

Mark my words people. If the people who are currently running our Government and many others are successful in their attempts to make their plans happen, the World will become a living Hell. And thats no understatement.


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## Said1 (Apr 15, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> There you go. That should give people a heads up on what the New World Order is and why it is a necessity that we don't allow the "Controllers" to put it into effect.
> 
> Mark my words people. If the people who are currently running our Government and many others are successful in their attempts to make their plans happen, the World will become a living Hell. And thats no understatement.



Here's a heads up, we're familiar with the concept of NWO and it's players.

Thanks.


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## sitarro (Apr 15, 2006)

Does all of this stuff have to do with the effects of GLOBAL WARMING???????

I think I am going to have a hard time sleeping tonight. :duh3:


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## 1549 (Apr 15, 2006)

> Some claim that George Bush, Henry Kissinger, the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, J.P. Morgan descendants, George Soros and other enligthened elites are part of a tightly knit fraternity who secretively meet to set global policy through the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations. Is this the fraternity from which a thousand points of light eminates?



Damn...who do you think caters those dinners?

I am not the conspiracy theory type, but your stuff is fun to read.


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## Mr.Conley (Apr 16, 2006)

This is the funniest thing EVER. Please, show me how this Bible code works.


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## Mr.Conley (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm also going to guess that Harvard and the Ivy Leagues are the training grounds for the next generation of controllers? Right.


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 16, 2006)

Mr.Conley said:
			
		

> This is the funniest thing EVER. Please, show me how this Bible code works.



Its easy. You take some words like *shit*, *full*, and *of* and rearrange them into whatever message you want to present. The "Bible Code"  is *full of shit*.


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## theHawk (Apr 17, 2006)

I don't think it takes a psychic to figure out Islam/communism is on a collision course with the West.


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## Jimmyeatworld (Apr 17, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I am almost 100% confident that just about everything I am stating here is true. And yes, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong if it turns out that I am. But I do not believe that after all the work and energy I and many others have put into this information that these events will not occur.
> 
> And as for my beliefs in our Creator, I never question His/Her prophecies until I have proof that they won't happen. And even then I am more inclinded to chalk it up as "something must have changed it" rather than "Our Creators prophecies were wrong".



Almost 100% confident that just about everything is true... Sounds like a Hilary Clinton speech. Leave just enough room to wiggle out.

Dude, you could have just left a link and saved a lot of time. Not sure what you're going to think when China doesn't go marching into Russia, but I have to say that at least this was different. A nice break from the same old crap.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 17, 2006)

1549 said:
			
		

> Damn...who do you think caters those dinners?
> 
> I am not the conspiracy theory type, but your stuff is fun to read.



Good question 1549. =)

You see, what alot of people don't seem to understand, and I'm not trying to explain this for the ones that do, is that War = Profits, it's that simple. Here's how the equation works. Banks lend money to countries to fight their battles; then extend further loans after the war is over to help rebuild the nation that was defeated. By utilizing this strategy, the banks always win because the victor is deeply indebted to them via loans, while the loser is controlled through the extended political influence associated with their indebtedness. 

Those in the know also make a killing during war by manipulating the stock market; utilizing inside information and knowing the markets will be volatile. They short-sell while the stocks are high (making a huge profit), then they wait for the market to drop (as it inevitably does), and then they re-buy at rock bottom prices, knowing full well that they'll rise again after everything settles down (thus, more financial gains.) 

War is hell for some, and big bucks for others. What category do people think the controllers fit into?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 17, 2006)

In fact, here's something that many of you guys might find very interesting. This guy had posted this information on a couple of sites and then he gave his email address for anyone who had any questions about what he's claiming here. The link to his email is d.benham@worldnet.att.net, or at least according to him.

But anyways, you guys should really read this because it gave me a whole different perspective on our Federal Reserve system here in the United States and how corrupt it actually is when you look behind the scenes. Actually, this is one of the main reason that I won't even put my money into a bank. Besides the fact that I just plain don't trust them.


 A Phone Call To The Fed 
From Dan Benham ©1988-2002 
d.benham@worldnet.att.net 
9-8-2 


The following is a conversation with Mr. Ron Supinski of the Public Information Department of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank. This is an account of that conversation. 


*CALLER* - Mr. Supinski, does my country own the Federal Reserve System? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - We are an agency of the government. 

*CALLER* - That's not my question. Is it owned by my country? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - It is an agency of the government created by congress. 

*CALLER* - Is the Federal Reserve a Corporation? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes 

*CALLER* - Does my government own any of the stock in the Federal Reserve? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - No, it is owned by the member banks. 

*CALLER* - Are the member banks private corporations? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes 

*CALLER* - Are Federal Reserve Notes backed by anything? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes, by the assets of the Federal Reserve but, primarily by the power of congress to lay tax on the people. 

*CALLER* - Did you say, by the power to collect taxes is what backs Federal Reserve Notes? 
*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes 

*CALLER* - What are the total assets of the Federal Reserve? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - The San Francisco Bank has $36 Billion in assets. 

*CALLER* - What are these assets composed of? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Gold, the Federal Reserve Bank itself and government securities. 

*CALLER* - What value does the Federal Reserve Bank carry gold per oz. on their books? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I don't have that information but the San Francisco Bank has $1.6 billion in gold. 

*CALLER* - Are you saying the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco has $1.6 billion in gold, the bank itself and the balance of the assets is government securities? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes. 

*CALLER* - Where does the Federal Reserve get Federal Reserve Notes from? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - They are authorized by the Treasury. 

*CALLER* - How much does the Federal Reserve pay for a $10 Federal Reserve Note? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Fifty to seventy cents. 

*CALLER* - How much do they pay for a $100.00 Federal Reserve Note? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - The same fifty to seventy cents. 

*CALLER* - To pay only fifty cents for a $100.00 is a tremendous gain, isn't it? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes 

*CALLER* - According to the US Treasury, the Federal Reserve pays $20.60 per 1,000 denomination or a little over two cents for a $100.00 bill, is that correct? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - That is probably close. 

*CALLER* - Doesn't the Federal Reserve use the Federal Reserve Notes that cost about two cents each to purchase US Bonds from the government? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes, but there is more to it than that. 

*CALLER* - Basically, that is what happens? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes, basically you are correct. 

*CALLER* - How many Federal Reserve Notes are in circulation? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - $263 billion and we can only account for a small percentage. 

*CALLER* - Where did they go? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Peoples mattress, buried in their back yards and illegal drug money. 

*CALLER* - Since the debt is payable in Federal Reserve Notes, how can the $4 trillion national debt be paid-off with the total Federal Reserve Notes in circulation? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I don't know. 

*CALLER* - If the Federal Government would collect every Federal Reserve Note in circulation would it be mathematically possible to pay the $4 trillion national debt? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - No 

*CALLER* - Am I correct when I say, $1 deposited in a member bank $8 can be lent out through Fractional Reserve Policy? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - About $7. 

*CALLER* - Correct me if I am wrong but, $7 of additional Federal Reserve Notes were never put in circulation. But, for lack of better words were "created out of thin air " in the form of credits and the two cents per denomination were not paid either. In other words, the Federal Reserve Notes were not physically printed but, in reality were created by a journal entry and lent at interest. Is that correct? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes 

*CALLER* - Is that the reason there are only $263 billion Federal Reserve Notes in circulation? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - That is part of the reason. 

*CALLER* - Am I mistaking that when the Federal Reserve Act was passed (on Christmas Eve) in 1913, it transferred the power to coin and issue our nation's money and to regulate the value thereof from Congress to a Private corporation. And my country now borrows what should be our own money from the Federal Reserve (a private corporation) plus interest. Is that correct and the debt can never be paid off under the current money system of country? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Basically, yes. 

*CALLER* - I smell a rat, do you? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I am sorry, I can't answer that, I work here. 

*CALLER* - Has the Federal Reserve ever been independently audited? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - We are audited. 

*CALLER* - Why is there a current House Resolution 1486 calling for a complete audit of the Federal Reserve by the GAO and why is the Federal Reserve resisting? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I don't know. 

*CALLER* - Does the Federal Reserve regulate the value of Federal Reserve Notes and interest rates? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes 

*CALLER* - Explain how the Federal Reserve System can be Constitutional if, only the Congress of the US, which comprises of the Senate and the House of representatives has the power to coin and issue our money supply and regulate the value thereof? [Article 1 Section 1 and Section 8] Nowhere, in the Constitution does it give Congress the power or authority to transfer any powers granted under the Constitution to a private corporation or, does it? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I am not an expert on constitutional law. I can refer you to our legal department. 

*CALLER* - I can tell you I have read the Constitution. It does NOT provide that any power granted can be transferred to a private corporation. Doesn't it specifically state, all other powers not granted are reserved to the States and to the citizens? Does that mean to a private corporation? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I don't think so, but we were created by Congress. 

*CALLER* - Would you agree it is our country and it should be our money as provided by our Constitution? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I understand what you are saying. 

*CALLER* - Why should we borrow our own money from a private consortium of bankers? Isn't this why we had a revolution, created a separate sovereign nation and a Bill of Rights? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - (Declined to answer). 

*CALLER* - Has the Federal Reserve ever been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I believe there has been court cases on the matter. 

*CALLER* - Have there been Supreme Court Cases? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I think so, but I am not sure. 

*CALLER* - Didn't the Supreme Court declare unanimously in A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. vs. US and Carter vs. Carter Coal Co. the corporative-state arrangement an unconstitutional delegation of legislative power? ["The power conferred is the power to regulate. This is legislative delegation in its most obnoxious form; for it is not even delegation to an official or an official body, presumptively disinterested, but to private persons." Carter vs. Carter Coal Co...] 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I don't know, I can refer you to our legal department. 

*CALLER* - Isn't the current money system a house of cards that must fall because, the debt can mathematically never be paid-off? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - It appears that way. I can tell you have been looking into this matter and are very knowledgeable. However, we do have a solution. 

*CALLER* - What is the solution? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - The Debit Card. 

*CALLER* - Do you mean under the EFT Act (Electronic Funds Transfer)? Isn't that very frightening, when one considers the capabilities of computers? It would provide the government and all it's agencies, including the Federal Reserve such information as: You went to the gas station @ 2:30 and bought $10.00 of unleaded gas @ $1.41 per gallon and then you went to the grocery store @ 2:58 and bought bread, lunch meat and milk for $12.32 and then went to the drug store @ 3:30 and bought cold medicine for $5.62. In other words, they would know where we go, when we went, how much we paid, how much the merchant paid and how much profit he made. Under the EFT they will literally know everything about us. Isn't that kind of scary? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Yes, it makes you wonder. 

*CALLER* - I smell a GIANT RAT that has overthrown my constitution. Aren't we paying tribute in the form of income taxes to a consortium of private bankers? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I can't call it tribute, it is interest. 

*CALLER* - Haven't all elected officials taken an oath of office to preserve and defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic? Isn't the Federal Reserve a domestic enemy? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I can't say that. 

*CALLER* - Our elected officials and members of the Federal Reserve are guilty of aiding and abetting the overthrowing of my Constitution and that is treason. Isn't the punishment of treason death? 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - I believe so. 

*CALLER* - Thank you for your time and information and if I may say so, I think you should take the necessary steps to protect you and your family and withdraw your money from the banks before the collapse, I am. 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - It doesn't look good. 

*CALLER* - May God have mercy on the souls who are behind this unconstitutional and criminal act called the Federal Reserve. When the ALMIGHTY MASS awakens to this giant hoax, they will not take it with a grain of salt. It has been a pleasure talking to you and I thank you for your time. I hope you will take my advice before it does collapse. 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Unfortunately, it does not look good. 

*CALLER* - Have a good day and thanks for your time. 

*MR. SUPINSKI* - Thanks for calling. 



If the reader has any doubts to the validity of this conversation, call your nearest Federal Reserve Bank, YOU KNOW THE QUESTIONS TO ASK! You won't find them listed under the Federal Government. They are in the white pages, along with Federal Express, Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC), and any other business. Find out for yourself if all this is true. 

And then, go to your local law library and look up the case of Lewis vs. US, case #80-5905, 9th Circuit, June 24, 1982. It reads in part: "Examining the organization and function of the Federal Reserve Banks and applying the relevant factors, we conclude that the federal reserve are NOT federal instrumentality's . . but are independent and privately owned and controlled corporations - federal reserve banks are listed neither as "wholly-owned' government corporations [under 31 USC Section 846] nor as 'mixed ownership' corporations [under 31 USC Section 856] . . . 28 USC Sections 1346(b), 2671. ' 

Federal agency' is defined as: the executive departments, the military departments, independent establishments of the United States, and corporations acting primarily as instrumentality's of the United States, but does not include any contractors with the United States . . . There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within the meaning of the Act, but the critical factor is the existence of the federal government control over the 'detailed physical performance' and 'day to day operations' of that entity. 

Other factors courts have considered include whether the entity is an independent corporation . . . whether the government is involved in the entity's finances, . . . and whether the mission of the entity furthers the policy of the United States . . . Examining the organization and function of the Federal Reserve Banks, and applying the relevant factors, we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities ... 

It is evident from the legislative history of the Federal Reserve Act that Congress did not intend to give the federal government direction over the daily operation of the Reserve Banks . . . The fact that the Federal Reserve Board regulates the Reserve Banks does not make them federal agencies under the Act . . . Unlike typical federal agencies, each bank is empowered to hire and fire employees at will. Bank employees do not participate in the Civil Service Retirement System. They are covered by worker's compensation insurance, purchased by the Bank, rather than the Federal Employees Compensation Act. 

Employees traveling on Bank business are not subject to federal travel regulations and do not receive government employee discounts on lodging and services . . . Finally, the Banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own name. 12 USC Section 341. They carry their own liability insurance and typically process and handle their own claims . . ." According to the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, "When the Federal Reserve was created, its stock was sold to the member banks." ("The Hats The Federal Reserve Wears," published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia). 

The original Stockholders of the Federal Reserve Banks in 1913 were the Rockefeller's, JP Morgan, Rothschild's, Lazard Freres, Schoellkopf, Kuhn-Loeb, Warburgs, Lehman Brothers and Goldman Sachs. The MONEYCHANGERS wanted to be insured they had a monopoly over our money supply, so Congress passed into law Title 12, Section 284 of the United States Code. Section 284 specifically states, "NO STOCK ALLOWED TO THE US" * 

Monopoly - "A privilege or peculiar advantage vested in one or more persons or companies, consisting in the exclusive right [or power] to carry on a particular business or trade, manufacture a particular article, or control the sale of the whole supply of a particular commodity, A form of market structure in which only a few firms dominate the total sales of a product or service. 

'Monopoly,' as prohibited by Section 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act, has two elements: possession of a monopoly power in relevant market and willful acquisition or maintenance of that power, as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior power, business acumen, or historical product. A monopoly condemned by the Sherman Act is the power to fix prices, or exclude competition, coupled with policies designed to use and preserve that power." (Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Edition) The Federal Reserve Act goes one step farther, "No Senator or Representative in Congress shall be a member of the Federal Reserve Board or an officer or director of a Federal Reserve Bank." They didn't want We The People to have any say in the operation of their monopoly through our elected officials. 
___ 


Copyright Notice: All rights reserved re: common-law copyright of trade-name/trade-mark, DANIEL DOYLE BENHAM©-as well as any and all derivatives and variations in the spelling of said trade-name/trade-mark-Copyright© 1988 by Daniel Doyle Benham. 

Record Owner: Daniel Doyle Benham, Autograph Common Law Copyright© 1988. 


Although congress has made the Fed. a legal institution,it is by far for the benifit of America.IMO,Fractional Reserve banking laws are a huge problem as well.Rep.Ron Paul of Texas has been trying to repeal the Fed. Reserve Act but for now we have to live with it.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

Here's a good question for you guys.

Did you know that just three days after the World Trade Center attack, Congress approved a $40 billion spending bill, with half of the money being used on increased military spending? Congress has also earmarked $15 billion to bail out the airline industry, and $100 million or the New York City clean up.

Here's another thing to think about. Collectively, the World Trade Center generated 74 million dollars a year in taxes that went to New York City. That revenue has now been eliminated. The Federal Reserve is also getting in on the game, pumping out over $100 billion in new loans. The insurance companies are taking a royal bath during this catastrophe.

The point is that there is an enormous amount of money that is currently being spent, and at some point we're going to have to pony up for it. When we do; who's going to make the brunt of these payments and take it on the chin - us, or the Controllers? Whose pocket do you think the money is going to come out of - Those who control most of the money (the Controllers) or those who have little (ours)? It's something to consider.....

Our Government does not control the Federal Reserve, it is a privately owned company. Five banks account for almost 60% of the Federal Reserve's ownership. Think about that. Five banks literally rule the World. Also, when we make payments on our national debt (the interest payments alone = $395 billion a year), who does the money go to? Answer: the international bankers! Who do the international bankers answer to? No one except the utmost tier of the power pyramid - the Controllers themselves.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

Despite the capitalist credo of competition, the multinational companies that comprise the New World Order despise competition. John D. Rockefeller said it best: "Competition is a sin." They love monopolies. And why doesn't the media point out any of these disturbing facts to us? Isn't it their job to be societies watchdog? The reason they don't is because the news companies like ABC, NBC, and Fox are owned by other companies! And in ABC's case it is beholden to Texaco. NBC is affiliated with British Petroleum, and Time-Warner is associated with Mobil.

Remember, the four largest industries in the world are: 1. Usury. 2. Energy. 3. Drugs. And 4. War. When the oil industry barks orders, the media falls in line. Instead of being the country's watchdog, the corporate media is nothing more than a pacified lap dog.

_Network USA stated:_ "The biggest threat to Americans' freedom is not going to come from terrorists; it is going to come from politicians guided by the manipulated fears of the public."

If you look back over the last sixty years, the Theater of Terror has played a prominent role in putting this country in it's current predicament. What is meant by the "Theatre of Terror?" It is a single act that is so dramatic and terrifying that it leaves a permanent mark, or indentation, on the collective national psyche. The most striking examples of this phenomenon would be: Pearl Harbor, the atomic bombs of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK's assassination, the Manson murders, the Challenger explosion, the Oklahoma City Bombing, and the World Trade Center terrorist attacks.

Other countries, for example Austrailia with it's Port Aurthur Massacre, have also experienced these traumas. This "Theatre of Terror" is so intense and foreign to what we're accustomed to, that at first glance it almost seems like a Hollywood production -- except it's real. The fear factor paralyzes us, temporarily curbing our progress.

Now imagine what would happen if someone had the ability to manipulate this "Theatre of Terror" to their own advantage. On a small scale, how many children have been severely impaired in their development due to a parent or institution's use of terror? The results are all around us.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

Now try and think of these phenomenons on a much larger scale. How can a World-Shattering event be used to manipulate people in a certain direction? 

A perfect example is Hitler's invasion of Europe. After the atrocities of World War 1, America wanted nothing to do with another monumental war. The Controllers were aware of our collective aversion to entering another protracted battle, so they needed a catastrophic event to motivate us. Thus, Pearl Harbor. Do you see how it works? Manipulate the "Theatre of Terror" to derive a desired outcome. If we examine this concept in regard to trauma-based mind control, we'd realize the more fearful a person becomes, the more susceptible they are to control. 

How easy is it to control a lion out on the range? Extremely difficult. Yet if this lion is caged and turned into a cowering shell of it's former self, how easy would it be to control? Here's the formula: Trauma = Susceptibility = Manipulation. 

Ever since 9-11, think about how much fear has been laid upon us. We're afraid of certain types of people, white powder (anthrax), the mail, airplanes, smallpox, ect. Through fear and insecurity, the Controllers are destroying our confidence, chipping away at the invincibility of our country, and eroding the belief in ourselves. 

What if this reign of terror continues and we begin to see the loss of our national sovereignty, a military defeat, and a full-scale economic collapse? Then, how would deliberately-induced fear relate to our confidence?


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## Said1 (Apr 18, 2006)

> Despite the capitalist credo of competition, the multinational companies that comprise the New World Order despise competition. John D. Rockefeller said it best: "Competition is a sin." They love monopolies. And why doesn't the media point out any of these disturbing facts to us? Isn't it their job to be societies watchdog? The reason they don't is because the news companies like ABC, NBC, and Fox are owned by other companies! And in ABC's case it is beholden to Texaco. NBC is affiliated with British Petroleum, and Time-Warner is associated with Mobil.



No. I think the lack of reporting is largely attributed to the lack of understanding of things like basic economics and  their preference for the big ticket items such as sensation, kind of like what you are doing.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

What do you mean sensation?

I am trying to expose these people for who they really are. Those are my intentions. I have no other intentions other than those.

The controllers on the other hand would have it otherwise. Whats it going to take for some of you people to realize that?

I mean for crying out loud here. Our country is going down the toilet. Our society, is going down the toilet. And if we don't wake up now, it's all going to be over before you know it.


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## Said1 (Apr 18, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> What do you mean sensation?
> 
> I am trying to expose these people for who they really are. Those are my intentions. I have no other intentions other than those.
> 
> The controllers on the other hand would have it otherwise. Whats it going to take for some of you people to realize that?



Sensation gets attention, which is just that in your case, attention - through your use of bolded and enlarged lettering....sensation..i.e. look at me!! In the case of most main stream media outlets, sensation equates not only attention, but dollars. See?


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## Gunny (Apr 18, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> What do you mean sensation?
> 
> I am trying to expose these people for who they really are. Those are my intentions. I have no other intentions other than those.
> 
> The controllers on the other hand would have it otherwise. Whats it going to take for some of you people to realize that?



You are trying to expose people for who YOU and likeminded people perceive them to be.  Does it ever strike you as odd that "you and likeminded people" are a serious minority group?

Try some objectivity.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

I see where you are coming from but in my case at least the bold lettering is put aside for quotes only. To make the quotes stand out a little easier, for people to pick them out when they need to come back to them. These are real quotes too, I wouldn't post them if they weren't.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

GunnyL said:
			
		

> You are trying to expose people for who YOU and likeminded people perceive them to be.  Does it ever strike you as odd that "you and likeminded people" are a serious minority group?
> 
> Try some objectivity.



It won't be that way for much longer.


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## Said1 (Apr 18, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> The controllers on the other hand would have it otherwise. Whats it going to take for some of you people to realize that?
> 
> I mean for crying out loud here. Our country is going down the toilet. Our society, is going down the toilet. And if we don't wake up now, it's all going to be over before you know it.



I don't think there is a large correlation between media outlets, who owns them and what is reported. How things are reported and what is reported is not necessarily the same thing. For the most part what is reported is what gets the most viewers or subscribers, which can also fall in line with how it's reported depending on the targetted demographic. Basically, what generates the most revenue is what you'll see.


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## Gunny (Apr 18, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> It won't be that way for much longer.



There have been "Doomsday-sayers" since the Middle Ages.  You're different HOW?

Because instead of standing on a corner with a sign in a black robe you've progressed to internet message boards?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

No Gunn. I am far from a "Doomsdayer" that says that the entire World is going to end. The Entire World is NOT going to end, not for some time, but civilization as we know it could end, for the worse, and not for the better, if we don't overthrow these people before it's too late.

What you seem to be forgetting is that Controlled Chaos is one of the oldest fear-inducing tactics that the Controllers have used throughout the years. If this situation is viewed in terms of Hegelian Dialetics, you can see how controlled conflict is used to weaken a citizenry.


Thesis: Freedom

Anti-Thesis: Real or Simulated Threats

Predetermined Synthesis: The loss of our rights.


*Associated Press Article by Jesse J. Holland - October 24, 2001:*

"Police would be able to conduct secret searches of suspects' homes, tap all their cell and home phones and track their use of the Internet under anti-terrorism legislation moving toward final approval in the House."


*Justice Ralph Forbes, Arkansas Congressional Candidate:*

 "In 1984 there is a chilling passage where the Interrogator is describing the future to character Winston Smith, and he says, "Imagine the heel of a boot grinding in a Human face throughout all Eternity. That's our view of the future."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 18, 2006)

And you say, So what Nuc....give us something a little more "objective". 

Well how about this quote from William Safire to get your guys attention?

*William Safire, in an article for The New York Times on November 14, 2002 entitled, "You Are a Suspect":*

"If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you: Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Website you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend - all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "A virtual, centralized grand database." 

"To This computerized dossier on your private file from commercial sources, add every piece of information that the government has about you - passport application, driver's liscence and bridge toll records, judicial  and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors, your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance - and you have the super snoop's dream: "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S. citizen."


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## dilloduck (Apr 18, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> And you say, So what Nuc....give us something a little more "objective".
> 
> Well how about this quote from William Safire to get your guys attention?
> 
> ...



oh ya !!!!  well they don't know where I hide the M&Ms !!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 19, 2006)

How about the use of technology to diminish our rights and bolster surveillance? Video cameras are now being installed all over America on every downtown street corner in the guise of "catching red light runners". How do you feel about instant DNA tests if you're pulled over for a routine traffic violation? What would happen if satellites were able to actually shut off your automobile if it was "producing too much pollution"? What if you were forced to carry around a national ID card that had your finger prints on it? Well brace yourself folks because all of these things are supposed to be coming.

To better monitor what you're looking at on the internet, what if you had to undergo a retinal scan prior to logging on? Do you know that right now the FBI has a file on EVERY US. citizen -- even those who have never broken the law or been arrested? Did you know that when you walk through an airport, the authorities have equipment that can tell EXACTLY how much money you're carrying (via the metallic strips imbedded inside the bills), and that if you have over $1,000 in cash, they're allowed to stop and search you? This is part of the increased search, seizure, detention, and wiretapping laws that are currently being passed with alarming speed.


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## Gunny (Apr 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> How about the use of technology to diminish our rights and bolster surveillance? Video cameras are now being installed all over America on every downtown street corner in the guise of "catching red light runners". How do you feel about instant DNA tests if you're pulled over for a routine traffic violation? What would happen if satellites were able to actually shut off your automobile if it was "producing too much pollution"? What if you were forced to carry around a national ID card that had your finger prints on it? Well brace yourself folks because all of these things are supposed to be coming.
> 
> To better monitor what you're looking at on the internet, what if you had to undergo a retinal scan prior to logging on? Do you know that right now the FBI has a file on EVERY US. citizen -- even those who have never broken the law or been arrested? Did you know that when you walk through an airport, the authorities have equipment that can tell EXACTLY how much money you're carrying (via the metallic strips imbedded inside the bills), and that if you have over $1,000 in cash, they're allowed to stop and search you? This is part of the increased search, seizure, detention, and wiretapping laws that are currently being passed with alarming speed.



Sure are a lot of "what if's."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 19, 2006)

GunnyL said:
			
		

> Sure are a lot of "what if's."



Yes Gunn but these are questions that NEED to be asked. The answers to them are as shocking as the questions themselves. But none of the less, they are important.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 19, 2006)

Technology exists right now where a CCTV camera can zoom in on you at a stadium filled with people, transfer the information to a computer with face-recognition programs and identify you as someone who's a "threat."

What if Congress passed a bill that states that every person in the United States must submit to mandatory fingerprinting? To insure that everyone adheres to this policy, what if they created fingerprint scanners at every check-out counter, and the only way you'll be able to buy something is if it scans your fingerprint ID card? Sounds like science fiction? It's not. It's reality. And it's supposably on the way.

Here's the deal with National ID cards that are supposed to be coming soon. At some point these National ID cards are supposed to be issued, but they will only be a "stepping stone" to "bigger and badder" things. Why? Because these cards are going to be purposely created to deliberately FAIL! Yes, because of their propensity to be counterfeited (which will be built into the card in the first place), we'll then supposably be "SEDUCED" into accepting an actual IMPLANT into our hands. You think I'm joking? I'm not.

And what will these implants entail? Basically, they'll be set into your palm, be powered by lithium batteries, and they'll carry at least 400,000 bytes of information. They will let the Controllers/Watchers know your family relationships, criminal backround, travel activities, health information, purchasing and financial history, what you read, what you look at on the internet, and a slew of other data. They will be updated on a daily basis every time you go to the store, log onto your computer, go to the doctor, withdraw money, ect. Sounds like the perfect vehicle for Big Brother huh?

Again, supposably the Controllers are already experimenting with these implants on actual Human Beings AS WE SPEAK! The New World Order isn't just something thats coming in the future - - It's already here.


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## Gunny (Apr 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Yes Gunn but these are questions that NEED to be asked. The answers to them are as shocking as the questions themselves. But none of the less, they are important.



Not really.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 19, 2006)

GunnyL said:
			
		

> Not really.



Well maybe not to some. But to myself, and I know for a fact many others, these kind of questions are important indeed.


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 19, 2006)

I got one. 

*What if* monkeys flew out of my ass?

Not every question that pops into your head needs an answer. Sometimes, something is so out of the realm of possibilities, that it doesn't matter.

But don't lose heart. When I see you on the corner with your sign that says *"THE END IS NIGH"*, I'll drop a nickel in your bucket. Hell, maybe even a quarter.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 19, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> I got one.
> 
> *What if* monkeys flew out of my ass?
> 
> ...



lol. Well, I guess I'll take that as a compliment? Night for tonight guys.


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## Said1 (Apr 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Well maybe not to some. But to myself, and I know for a fact many others, these kind of questions are important indeed.




Yes. The "others".


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 19, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Yes. The "others".



Think they wear foil hats? I bet they all have matching tennis shoes and drink magic kool-aid.


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## Said1 (Apr 19, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> Think they wear foil hats? I bet they all have matching tennis shoes and drink magic kool-aid.




Yes. That and the anal probing.


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## Said1 (Apr 20, 2006)

gop_jeff said:
			
		

> Anal probing is real.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 20, 2006)

Terrorist hijackers steer their planes into the World Trade Centers on a sunny Tuesday morning -- flames, smoke, people leaping 90 stories to their death, screaming, sirens, pandemonium, then the Towers come crashing to the ground in Battery Park. And, oh yeah, television cameras....many many television cameras, then the major networks and news channels re-broadcasting the horrifying event over and over again -- every scene, every angle, every snippet of the jets, flames, impact, and both Towers falling to the Earth. 

Over and over and over...the hijacked jet, the Towers, the moment that forever changed American life. September 11, 2001 -- TV, TV, TV, bleary eyes fixated on CCN, Fox, CBS, NBC, and ABC. Amongst others. Television -- TV -- video images drawing viewers to it like a morbid magnet. 

Shortly thereafter, anthrax scares send the whole country reeling with more panic. Don't open your mail, white powder, respiratory damage, biological terrorism, Senators evacuated, postmen falling dead -- and every day on the radio, on TV, in newspapers and magazines -- more hysteria, more coverage, more fear. 

During the same time, air travelers are filled with anxiety -- everyone suspected of being a terrorist -- long waiting lines, the National Guard holding M16's, evacuations, more long lines, inspections, X-rays, no toenail clippers, bomb threats, and rumors of more terrorists lurking behind every pillar. 

Now we have pipe bombs in mailboxes, the new weekly computer virus that makes us tremble with fear over emails and attachments, plus color-coded terror alerts and reports about banks, malls and train stations being targeted for destruction. And all the while there's CNN, the _New York Times_ and _Newsweek_ continuing their psychic driving hour after hour, day after day. 

Psychic driving? What's that? Psychic driving is the repeated exposure to a specific message over and over and over again -- a continued, systematic replay of the same theme until the subject is thoroughly indoctrinated into accepting a certain belief. In this day and age....pure, oozing, strip-away-the-veneer Total Fear.


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## Annie (Apr 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Terrorist hijackers steer their planes into the World Trade Centers on a sunny Tuesday morning -- flames, smoke, people leaping 90 stories to their death, screaming, sirens, pandemonium, then the Towers come crashing to the ground in Battery Park. And, oh yeah, television cameras....many many television cameras, then the major networks and news channels re-broadcasting the horrifying event over and over again -- every scene, every angle, every snippet of the jets, flames, impact, and both Towers falling to the Earth.
> 
> Over and over and over...the hijacked jet, the Towers, the moment that forever changed American life. September 11, 2001 -- TV, TV, TV, bleary eyes fixated on CCN, Fox, CBS, NBC, and ABC. Amongst others. Television -- TV -- video images drawing viewers to it like a morbid magnet.
> 
> ...




I do not get your posts. I admit that. I find you a conspiracy, sci-fi nut. I'm prejudiced. I admit it. Truth is, coverage of 9/11 and anthrax was muted. On 9/11, until about 2pm, CST it was real, then they went into the Religion of Peace mode. The administration helped that, mightily.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 20, 2006)

Alright, perhaps I didn't explain it all that well Kathianne. I will try and make it even shorter and smoother. Hopefully this time will be the charm.

What I am trying to say here is that these people are Master Manipulators and they know the art of Instilling Fear into your body. You have the final say as to whether or not you will allow that Fear to seep inside you....but I know there is not one person currently in the World who has not feared something in their life, and who can tell me that they have not allowed an outside Fear to affect them internally. 

The key is to be able to do exactly what it is that the Controllers Fear. For all of us to be able to take control of our own emotions.


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## Annie (Apr 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Alright, perhaps I didn't explain it all that well Kathianne. I will try and make it even shorter and smoother. Hopefully this time will be the charm.
> 
> What I am trying to say here is that these people are Master Manipulators and they know the art of Instilling Fear into your body. You have the final say as to whether or not you will allow that Fear to seep inside you....but I know there is not one person currently in the World who has not feared something in their life, and who can tell me that they have not allowed an outside Fear to affect them internally.
> 
> The key is to be able to do exactly what it is that the Controllers Fear. For all of us to be able to take control of our own emotions.


Ok, I'll assume you mean this seriously, big assumption. On 9/11 and for months after, I was waiting for the next 'big event.' Anthrax didn't cut it, seriously. I was very upset when the media chose to curtail coverage, focusing on those looking for those that were incinerated, rather than focusing on the perps. 

I couldn't stop that, not the non-coverage of the attacks a year later, simply to prevent 'anger and feelings of retribution.' Yeah, all is right with the world now. It's all 9/10. No problems. We are all brothers and sisters. There's a few wackos out there, no doubt. The abortion clinic bombers for instance. When was their last hit? The tube bombers in UK? Disconnected immigrants, just look at what US does to Mexicans, could they be blame if they did the same?

We deserve it. yeah. right.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 20, 2006)

Yes Kathianne, it appears that you are a very perceptive person. And that is a good thing.

The whole thing is a ruse. Sure, a few people had their mail boxes blown up by a mind controlled punk rock zombie, and a few citizens died from anthrax (not-high ranking officials, if you noticed). But in all, those who are setting this entire theater of fear into motion are the REAL terrorists -- the international Controller cabal that's ready to raise another level on their pyramid of power. 

A few events in the recent past have set the stage for this onslaught of fear tactics where the government takes advantage of a bad situation in order to spread fear across the World. The first WTC bombing is a perfect example among others. Same with the Oklahoma bombings, and same with the Colombine shootings. Sprinkle in other bad moments in history, and you can easily see how the government uses both the media and their own legislators to induce fear into the public and to strip away more of our rights. 

The pivitol point for taking control of America can be said to have begun on September 11, 2001, with the World Trade Center terrorist attacks. 

The Controllers usually do things in small steps, patiently boiling us like frogs in a pot. But every once and awhile they need to kick it up a notch, a la taking advantage of the WTC attacks. That way, similar to the Charles Manson murders, a huge, indelible emotional scar is permanently imbedded on the Human psyche. These are the events that rip us to shreads, give our children nightmares, and leave many of us trembling in the relative safety of our homes.


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## Said1 (Apr 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> The Controllers usually do things in small steps, patiently boiling us like frogs in a pot. But every once and awhile they need to kick it up a notch, a la taking advantage of the WTC attacks. That way, similar to the Charles Manson murders, a huge, indelible emotional scar is permanently imbedded on the Human psyche. These are the events that rip us to shreads, give our children nightmares, and leave many of us trembling in the relative safety of our homes.



Those things are scary. I don't think they are constructed as such by anyone, they actually are scary. I don't want to be killed by a cult would you?


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 21, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Those things are scary. I don't think they are constructed as such by anyone



Oh they are definately constructed by someone. Whether the "Controllers" are responsible for constructing it or not, or if it was just some "crazy" terrorist, it is still constructed by somebody.

But....I know what you were getting at. And I don't want to give you the wrong impression here. I never said that certain factions of the Government or the "Controllers" as I like to call them were the ones who carried out these acts. It is possible that they are definately connected with them, and in many cases it's a fact that they are, but what I actually said was that you can bet that the Controllers and their corporate owned media are definately going to take advantage of a bad situation in order to twist it so that it works for their Agenda. And that means anything major that happens, not only will they allow for it to happen, such as they did with 9-11, and other attacks, but they will make sure that it gets all the publicity in the World and that the media covers it day in and day out and that Fear is the ultimate result of their equation.

So in other words, it doesn't need to be carried out by the Controllers, because it only needs to be one of two things. Either orchestrated and planned by them, or allowed by them in order to maximize the effects. Thats what I was trying to explain above.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 21, 2006)

In September 2001 this country was essentially chopped off at the knees. We reeled day in and day out from the psychological impact. But don't get fooled into thinking it's over. Our society is being crippled by a faceless, nameless form of fear that is being crammed down our throats by every media source available. Radio talk show hosts, television images, newspaper editorials and op-ed letters, gory magazine photographs, plus Internet rumors and half-truths are all contributing to this fear. And both the World and America are falling prey to it.

Where did our fighting Spirit go? With overwhelimg evidence that the Controllers not only knew about the 9-11 attacks, but allowed them to happen; with this evidence now openly reported in the mainstream press, why aren't we gathering in the streets to bring these monsters to their knees like they did to so many of us???

These same Controllers are setting up America for a great Fall, only to replace us with Red Communist China as the next-World super-power. But we sit idly by without taking action. Why? Even as we watch our own government continue to give technology to Red China and continue to pump up their economy and military!! 

We are numb with fear. The entire planet has for a long time been "kept in it's proper place" because of Fear. Religions use it, as do governments, police, parents, social groups, schools and faceless bureaucratic institutions such as the IRS. Soon this fear will be all-encompassing in the image of Big Brother, just as George Orwell predicted in his novel, _1984_.


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## Annie (Apr 21, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> In September 2001 this country was essentially chopped off at the knees. We reeled day in and day out from the psychological impact. But don't get fooled into thinking it's over. Our society is being crippled by a faceless, nameless form of fear that is being crammed down our throats by every media source available. Radio talk show hosts, television images, newspaper editorials and op-ed letters, gory magazine photographs, plus Internet rumors and half-truths are all contributing to this fear. And both the World and America are falling prey to it.
> 
> Where did our fighting Spirit go? With overwhelimg evidence that the Controllers not only knew about the 9-11 attacks, but allowed them to happen; with this evidence now openly reported in the mainstream press, why aren't we gathering in the streets to bring these monsters to their knees like they did to so many of us???
> 
> ...


You are so wrong. There is no follow up to remind the American People of what happened 9/11. There was a stated rationale to erase the video record, for the reason that they would inflame the desire for 'retribution.' It was stated that people might focus their rage on Saudis/Muslims, so the record has been deleted for the present. I assume the record is intact for the future historical record. If not, there is plenty on the private record.


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## MissileMan (Apr 21, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> In September 2001...



Thanks for affirming my decision to avoid hallucinogens.


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## Mr.Conley (Apr 21, 2006)

Nuclear Winter,
Do you know where these "Controllers" are? I was wondering wondering if you could 'hook me up' so to speak. Acheiving absolute power over the affairs of all mankind has always been a goal of mine.


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## Said1 (Apr 23, 2006)

Mine too.


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## 007 (Apr 23, 2006)

_*This is THE craziest fucking thread this board has ever seen.... PERIOD!

Nuclear whatever... GET A FUCKING GRIP MAN!! HOLY FUCK!

Never EVER let your meds run out again... OK?!*_


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 23, 2006)

Just drop a nickel in his bucket and keep moving.


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## 007 (Apr 23, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> Just drop a nickel in his bucket and keep moving.



A nickel.... sorry man... I'd probably kick his bucket over...


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 23, 2006)

Pale Rider said:
			
		

> A nickel.... sorry man... I'd probably kick his bucket over...



Dude, don't kick his bucket over. The controllers could be watching.


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## 007 (Apr 23, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> Dude, don't kick his bucket over. The controllers could be watching.



If he's had the time to post all the bologna in this thread without the controllers seeing, then I'll have time to kick his bucket over without being seen...


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2006)

Nuclear Winter, your life is the sum of the remainder of an unbalanced equation.  You are the eventuality of an anomale that, despite our sincerest efforts, we have been unable to remove from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 24, 2006)

Do you know what The saddest part is? We know how the Controllers use fear, yet we still allow them to manipulate us. It's similar to a scrawny, 150 pound lion tamer keeping ten Bengal Tigers at bay inside a cage at a circus. Not only that, but he also has them perform emasculating tricks, jump through hoops, and bow to him simply because he cracks his whip. These gorgeous, regal, powerful animals are completely slavish to his desires, and so have we become this way!! It should fill everyone with rage.

Are we really any different than the tigers? Think of how great Humanity could be, and how much potential we possess. But we allow the Controllers to rule us.

We have wars and upcoming wars everywhere, starvation on a massive scale, homelessness, and a man-made AIDS virus running rampant in Africa and the Orient. 

But the finger shouldn't always be pointed just at the Controllers, and our problems shouldn't always be externalized. We're the one allowing them to control us. Why? Aren't we any smarter than the Bengal Tigers in that cage? Why don't we pull together (instead of letting THEM tear us apart) and remove these Controllers from their power! There are only a few of them, and MILLIONS of us. We can do it! But we have to do it now!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 24, 2006)

Lets examine the current situation that exists in America between "liberals" and "conservatives". Each side has its supposed "agenda", but when it comes right down to it, these "labels" are all part of a larger shell game.

It's reminiscent of the story the Wizard of Oz where both sides are doing the dirty work of a hidden figure that is lurking behind a curtain. And although these individuals may disagree on the particulars, they all want the same end, so they use a variety of different means to attain it.

Two of these tactics are distraction and disinformation. The Controllers keep everyone fighting each other instead of focusing their energy on the REAL enemy. They do it by clandestinely financing each opposing group, then standing back to watch the aftermath as they fight like cats and dogs.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 24, 2006)

Don't you think that it's conceivable that, considering their sick, evil motives, certain elements of the Secret Cabal could have had pre-knowledge of the terrorist acts on September 11? Before answering, realize that there was an abundance of evidence hinting that the Lusitania was going to be sunk, thus "forcing" us into World War 1 (a war that the majority of the people in the United States adamantly wanted to stay out of). A couple decades later, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his elitist handlers were aware that Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed by the Japanese. They ALLOWED it to take place, though, so the American people would be enraged enough to enter World War 2.

That's not the end of these horrendous practices....not by a longshot. During the 1960's, _Operation Northwoods_ was a proposed military plan where we would stage phony attacks against American citizens right after the Bay of Pigs fiasco to insure our people would get so disgusted, they'd gladly allow us to invade Cuba once again. Luckily, JFK (although not perfect by any means) nixed the plan, but it may have cost him his life in doing so.

Propaganda was admittedly used prior to our war against Iraq. You remember the stories about how the Iraqi's were butchering babies in hospitals. Our government confessed that the entire story was incorrect! 

All of these events were dramatic and grand in scale in order to not only shock the public, but to appeal to their basest instincts of bloodlust and revenge. After the dust settled, our entry into whatever battle was currently being waged could then be legitimized.


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## manu1959 (Apr 24, 2006)

the last time syria and iran got together israel kicked thier ass in 7 days.... :funnyface


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 25, 2006)

The old Dan Rather State-run news along with all the other media stations are nothing more than smoke. It's all filled with soap opera drama, sex, violence, and enough titillation to keep the people perched in front of their TV or buying the latest newspaper and scandal sheet.

But every once and awhile the Controllers need to move forward and take action., and then the "play" becomes real, and people are allowed to get killed for the sake of their agenda. Pearl Harbor - 2,500 dead. The World Trade Center Towers - 3,000+ dead.

Could it really be possible that the Controllers had pre-knowledge of the catastrophe in New York City and Washington DC? Many people would say no, but Brian Williams wrote an article in _Newsbytes_ on September 27, 2001 that the mainstream media had completely ignored. He reported, "Officials at the instant-messaging firm Odigo confirmed today that two employees received text messages warning of an attack on the World Trade Center two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the New York Landmarks."

An obvious question is: Why didn't people like Dan Rather or the New York Times investigate these alligations? Why didn't anybody look into it closer? 

Whats even scarier is the following scenario: What if the World Trade Center was only a "first step" and an even greater catastrophe is waiting in the wings, like a nuclear warhead being dropped upon Chicago? Or how about the one thats supposed to be exploded on L.A.? 

After it dropped, everyone would be freaking out beyond words...literally going crazy. And the Controllers would be saying: "Now what will you do? No one will be safe. We could anthrax entire cities and you'd never know what hit you until it was too late. Or, since we control the entire food distribution network in this country, we'll simply quit shipping to the markets! We'll starve you people to death! Millions upon millions of you will be begging us to ship you dog food! So here's the deal. The New World Order does exist, and we expect you to bow down to us and take your implants in the palm of your hands. Oh and just remember, WE have food, and WE have underground bunkers. Now take your implants like the good little slavish robots that you are."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 25, 2006)

While reading these "words of wisdom", ask yourself, do these people have our best intentions in mind? To me, the answer is obvious.


Strobe Talbott - Council on Foreign Relations Member, to Time Magazine on July 20, 1992 in an article entitled, "America Abroad: The Birth of the Global Nation":

_"In the next hundred years, nationhood as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single global authority." He continues, "No matter how permanent and even sacred nations may seem at any one time, they are all artificial and temporary."_


Dr. Carroll Quigley, Author of the frequently quoted Tragedy and Hope:

_"The powers of financial capitalism have another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a World system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the World as a whole."_

Notice the words "Private hands."


Zbigniew Brzezinski, former National Security Advisor under Jimmy Carter:

_"The Technotronic Era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite; unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."_


Pope John Paul II - November 5, 1995:

"The United Nations organization needs to rise more and more above the cold status of an administrative institution and become a moral center where all nations of the World feel at home."

The United Nations a Moral Center? Thanks John Paul for confirming all the rumors about Papal devilry.


Edmund Muskie, Secretary of State - July 1980, commenting on official Carter administration policy concerning the "Global 2000" report and agreeing there should be "the elimination of two billion Human Beings by the year 2000."

_"I don't know what the total death count was during the past two decades, but if you look at AIDS, abortion, curable diseases that went purposely uncured, starvation, war, ect., I'd say they did a pretty good job at reaching their goal."_


Henry Kissinger, after the 1992 Los Angeles Riots at a Bilderberg meeting in Evian, France:

_"Today, Americans would be outraged if United Nations troops entered Los Angeles to restore order -- tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond -- whether real or promulgated -- that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the World will plead with World leaders to deliver them from Evil."

"The one thing that every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being, granted to them by their World Government."_


NOTE:

An "Outside" force? That could be anything. Kissinger said the threat could be real or promulgated, in other words a hoax, something that has been made-up to create fear so that we'll willingly bow down to them.


President George Bush - September 11, 1990: 

_"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective -- a New World Order -- can emerge. We are now in sight of a United Nations that performs as envisioned by it's founders."_


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 26, 2006)

*David Rockefeller (As reported in the French periodical Lectures Francaises):* 

_"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the World if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during these years. But the World is now prepared to march toward a World Government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and World bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."_


Thats just scary........


*John Swinton , former editor of the New York Times, in 1914 at the annual dinner of the American Press Association:*

_"There is no such thing as an independent press in America. Not a man among you dares utter his honest opinion. Were you to utter it, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. It is the duty of a New York journalist to lie, to revile, to toady at the feet of Mammon, to sell his country and his race for his daily bread, or what amounts to the same thing, his salary."

"We are tools and vassals of the rich behind the scenes. We are marionettes. These men pull the strings, and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives and our capacities are all the property of these men -- we are intellectual property."_


Well folks, the situation hasn't really changed one iota in the last 90 years. 

These are all real quotes. I'm not making this stuff up. Whats really funny is that the Controllers are that bold that they will go out and make a statement like the one that David Rockefeller made above. Or Henry Kissenger when he outright stated that he and his fellow Controllers could easily trick us into giving up our rights for what he considered to be the bettering of mankind. What a crock of crap. And John Swinton was trying to wake us up to what it really means to be a journalist.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 26, 2006)

Here are the Controllers basic goals:


*1.* A Single, Supra-National Government.

*2.* A One-World Army.

*3.* A One-World Religion.

*4.* A One-World Economy where they can manipulate every facet of global finance. We moved one step closer to this sorry state in January, 2002 when the EuroDollar was introduced to Europe.

*5.* They want to be able to Select "elected" leaders who will rise to power and carry out their agenda for them. And they want to be able to continue having the power to dump those who don't toe the line for them.

*6.* They want to be able to decide which countries will go to war against each other.

*7.* They want to be able to create a system in which the citizenry is increasingly under surveillance.

*8.* They want to be able to implant microchips into the bodies of citizens in order to finalize their control.


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## Annie (Apr 26, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Here are the Controllers basic goals:
> 
> 
> *1.* A Single, Supra-National Government.
> ...




Wow, they are doing great at those goals!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 26, 2006)

It's important to know that the Bilderberg meetings are only a "front". When this revolving group of influential World leaders meets at various locations each year, the real decisions concerning what is about to take place don't happen there, regardless of how secretive they are. These forums are merely another "illusion" that needs to be stripped away like the layers of an onion.

To really determine who's calling the shots, we need to research groups such as the Council of 13, the Council of 33, and the Committee of 300. Once we transcend the facade, we'll find that there are three tiers of control:

*1. Hierarchy Level One* - Secret societies, European nobility, and royal families such as the Rothschilds, Warburgs, and the English ruling elite.

*2. Hierarchy Level Two* - American dynasties such as Rockefeller, Kuhn, Sachs, Loeb, Lazard, Goldman, Schiff, and Morgan.

*3. Hierarchy Level Three* - Figureheads such as the Bush family.

At level 3, we can see the nuts and bolts of how a system of World hegemony is carried out through the interaction of: 

* energy
* finance
* multinational big business
* military
* industry

From these octopus-type tentacles, we see the three biggest industries in the World:

* Usury
* Energy
* drugs


So with the above information in mind, it's easy to determine how we've progressed past the propaganda that's being peddled by the News organizations, the Newspapers like the _New York Times_, and any of the magazines sitting on your local news stand.

Another point needs to be repeated and made perfectly clear -- which is that the Controllers don't go to war over ideals because they don't have any ideals other than to maintain their power base. Rather, it's about control, and keeping the machine running. They don't care about patriotism, nationalism, or our sovereignty.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 26, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Wow, they are doing great at those goals!



Well Kathianne, honestly though, if you sit back and really think about it, they are getting closer and closer to reaching every one of them.


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## manu1959 (Apr 26, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> It's important to know that the Bilderberg meetings are only a "front". When this revolving group of influential World leaders meets at various locations each year, the real decisions concerning what is about to take place don't happen there, regardless of how secretive they are. These forums are merely another "illusion" that needs to be stripped away like the layers of an onion.
> 
> To really determine who's calling the shots, we need to research groups such as the Council of 13, the Council of 33, and the Committee of 300. Once we transcend the facade, we'll find that there are three tiers of control:
> 
> ...



if this group is in power why is there war in the middle east


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## Hobbit (Apr 26, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> if this group is in power why is there war in the middle east



BCUZ TEH JOOOOOOOS WANNA KIL TEH A-RABS!!!!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2006)

The Cold War was largely an excuse for a massive arms build-up between the United States and Russia. Not only did it guarantee that we would base our society and economy upon a military foundation, but it also started the process of incurring a huge national debt (and thus immense interest payments to the international bankers). If we were such heated enemies with the Soviets from the early 1950's to the mid - 1990's, why did David Rockefeller maintain a branch of Chase Manhattan in Moscow since 1927!!! Something to think about, huh?

Finally, the most frightening aspect of this scenario is that these hidden elitists have already taken over almost complete control of the United States Government and mainstream corporate media. They already control our government! If the Controllers were able to execute such a coup here, who's to say that they don't control other governments and regimes as well -- even those in Afghanistan or the Middle East!

And if you concur that the Controllers finance both sides of every war, what if they're doing the same thing now, even going so far as to possess knowledge of the terrorist attacks in Washington DC and New York City on 9-11? 

The Controllers badly want a New World Order and they have little concern for any of us.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2006)

Did you guys know that in the Middle Ages, drugs were used as currency and those who possessed them wielded a great deal of economic leverage?

The individuals who cornered the opium market eventually became some of the wealthiest and most influential people on the planet. They reached this state by monopolizing the shipping lanes (sea-lanes were the primary mode of transportation at that time), and thus went on to become the World's rulers.

By the 15th century, nearly every war revolved around gold, diamonds, or the opium trade. Drugs became such a prevalent aspect of civilization, that when a history book today refers to the "spice trade", it is actually a thinly veiled reference to opium.

Across the ocean, the British East India Company was the wealthiest organization on the Earth at that time, and the mighty British Empire was founded on monopolizing the opium market. 

By the 19th Century, morphine was invented by a German scientist named F.W.A. Seturner between 1805-1817, and the syringe was developed during the Civil War.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2006)

American Drug Running started in 1823 with a man named Samuel Russell who began Russell & Company. This man bought opium in Turkey, then smuggled it to China. In 1830, he purchased the Perkins Opium Syndicate of Boston and established a base of operations in Connecticut. One of his primary wheeler-dealers was Warren Delano, Jr., who was the grandfather of FDR!

By 1832, along with William Huntington, Russell formed the Skull & Bones secret society at Yale. Over the years its members included family names such as Bush, Rockefeller, Taft, Whitney, Harriman, Pillsbury, Kellogg, Goodyear, Perkins, and Weyerhauser.

At the same time, people formed the nation's first intelligence operation -- the Culper Ring. So, what we see is a trend that will continue throughout the future, -- the intermingling of secret societies, drugs, and the intelligence community.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2006)

While the Skull and Bones were building their drug empire on the East Coast, two other events were also occuring on the West Coast. These events, the California Gold Rush in 1849 and the building of the Transcontinental Railroad, were instrumental in bringing drugs to America.

Chinese Coolies were used as mules to import drugs into our country. Here is the pattern once again: two of the key components that make the World go 'round: gold and drugs.

By 1889, heroin was developed by the I.G. Farben Company -- the same folks that 40 years later produced the Zyklon B used to gas the Jews during World War 2. Thus, the first true "drug wave" to hit our country occurred between 1870 - 1920.

Another factor that influenced this phenomenon was World War 1, which served to "expand" the World by moving people into areas they never would have encountered if it weren't for battle.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2006)

Heroin and morphine are pain killers. Since large numbers of people were wounded and maimed during World War 1 and were given these drugs to alleviate the pain, they became addicted. Thus, drug addition became widespread throughout the World.

By the time World War 1 ended, two more important factors entered into the equation. First, drugs were made illegal in America during the early 1920's, and also internationally by the League of Nations, thus making its distribution extremely profitable. Second, cocaine was introduced to the general public. 

People in the jungles had always gotten a buzz off of chewing the coca leaves, but now the sensation was heightened by delivering it in concentrated powder form.

In the early 1930's, consumers could no longer walk into a store and buy cocaine-laced softdrinks or over-the-counter hard drugs. Now they had to buy them on the streets. This was also the same time that the Mob entered the picture.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2006)

The United States could have entirely eradicated it's drug problem during World War 2 because our attention was focused on defeating the Axis Forces. But we had already dug a hole for ourselves by entering into an agreement with the Mafia. 

During World War 2, to secure Italy, the United States Government formed an alliance with the Mob -- specifically Lucky Luciano -- who was imprisoned in New York. Since Mussolini didn't hold the La Cosa Nostra in high esteem and tried to break them, Luciano turned to the American authorities and enabled us to ultimately dock and take over Italy during the war. As payment for his services,  Luciano was released from prison and deported back to Italy after the war, where he revived the Mafia and established links in the United States.

This fact is very important, for after Prohibition was abolished, the Mob began trafficking drugs, which had a much higher profit margin than alcohol.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2006)

"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if nothing had happened." Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."


----------



## sitarro (Apr 28, 2006)

I have one question ace.....what are they suppose to get out of it? Why would they want to control a bunch of subserviant people that because of their state in life don't get inspired to do what freedom encourages them to do. . . create. Look at the difference between Russia and the U.S. . Free people invent, the create, they entertain and they build. Slaves are only good for the most menial of labor. 

SOUNDS LIKE A B-RATED MOVIE SCRIPT TO ME.


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 28, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> It's important to know that the Bilderberg meetings are only a "front". When this revolving group of influential World leaders meets at various locations each year, the real decisions concerning what is about to take place don't happen there, regardless of how secretive they are. These forums are merely another "illusion" that needs to be stripped away like the layers of an onion.
> 
> To really determine who's calling the shots, we need to research groups such as the Council of 13, the Council of 33, and the Committee of 300. Once we transcend the facade, we'll find that there are three tiers of control:
> 
> ...



I'm part of Hierarchy #1. Please tell me my role in this.


----------



## Dr Grump (Apr 28, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> I'm part of Hierarchy #1. Please tell me my role in this.



You're a free mason? Your role is to give secret handshakes and run interference for the Illuminati while they carry on ruling the world..


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Apr 28, 2006)

Dr Grump said:
			
		

> You're a free mason? Your role is to give secret handshakes and run interference for the Illuminati while they carry on ruling the world..



I'll remember that at the next Lodge meeting.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 29, 2006)

sitarro said:
			
		

> I have one question ace.....what are they suppose to get out of it? Why would they want to control a bunch of subserviant people that because of their state in life don't get inspired to do what freedom encourages them to do. . . create. Look at the difference between Russia and the U.S. . Free people invent, the create, they entertain and they build. Slaves are only good for the most menial of labor.
> 
> SOUNDS LIKE A B-RATED MOVIE SCRIPT TO ME.



I see where you are coming from, but don't kid yourself man. In almost any country, it doesn't matter where, the Controllers have made sure that they are at the top while the slaves are at the bottom.

Here, Russia, or almost anywhere else for that matter. The scales always tip towards the Controllers, while we end up slaving away to make sure that it always remains that way. Things have to change soon. And I for one am sickened by the fact that over 100,000 people die everyday of starvation when we have enough money and supplies in this World to feed every single one of them. The rulers of countries (The "Controllers") don't give a shit. And I am not going to sit back here and pretend like everything is ok.


----------



## dilloduck (Apr 29, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I see where you are coming from, but don't kid yourself man. In almost any country, it doesn't matter where, the Controllers have made sure that they are at the top while the slaves are at the bottom.
> 
> Here, Russia, or almost anywhere else for that matter. The scales always tip towards the Controllers, while we end up slaving away to make sure that it always remains that way. Things have to change soon. And I for one am sickened by the fact that over 100,000 people die everyday of starvation when we have enough money and supplies in this World to feed every single one of them. The rulers of countries (The "Controllers") don't give a shit. And I am not going to sit back here and pretend like everything is ok.



So what are you going to do?? Tell someone else to do something? :rotflmao:


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 29, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> So what are you going to do?? Tell someone else to do something? :rotflmao:



Knowledge leads to action my friend. But first must come the knowledge.

Such as the fact that another window of opportunity opened up after World War 2 because up until that point, Japan had dominated the manufacture and distribution of heroin. They used this money to finance their war efforts and also flooded China with it to undermine that country.

So, between 1936-1946, there was virtually no drug abuse in America. But then in 1948, as an offshoot of the OSS, the CIA was formed to "stop communism". In the process, they also became major league players in the trafficking of drugs.

By interacting with other intelligence communities, mobsters, international dealers and guerillas, they soon began running drugs from the Middle East through Europe, and eventually into the United States.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 29, 2006)

The REAL war on drugs is this: The CIA is eliminating all unwanted competition so they can have total control of running the World's drug business. It's that simple. Fletcher Prouty, the "Mr. X" in Oliver Stone's film, _JFK_, called this rogue element "The Secret Team".

This parallel government doesn't use its resources to stop the production, transport, and sale of drugs, but instead, uses the drugs themselves to finance it's own covert operations. Called "Black Budgets", this money is utilized above-and-beyond what Congress appropriates to the CIA in their yearly buget.

In other words, since this "Secret Team" has a clandestine, self-appointed mission that isn't authorized by any branch of the government, it needs to have a variety of ways to finance itself.

Where does this funding come from? In addition to drug dealing, the CIA runs guns and launders money (to name just a few of their "covert arts"). Not only did the CIA formerly "occupy" their own private airline (Air America), but they also joined forces with the World Finance Corporation in Florida, which is a money laundering bank, and the Nugan Hand Bank in Florida.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 29, 2006)

Of course, if times got rough the Controllers could always fall back on the Vatican to run their money for them (no traces).

While we're on the topic of front companies, there's always the Far East Trading Company that the CIA used to run opium and clean their money.

And why does the Secret Team need all this dough? Well, there's always a need for someone to run the World's illegal operations. You know what they are -- assasinations, financing puppet governments, laying the groundwork for wars in third world countries, quieting people who get out of line, inciting riots (and then quelling them), grabbing control of states or countries that we could better operate according to them; or hell, just creating entirely new governments.

And who carries out these missions? Of course you have intelligence forces, those from academia, politicians, spies, bankers, and businessmen who are working on the sly. But to really get the job done, the CIA gets those people who know how to get down n' dirty -- outlaws, warlords, and fanatical religious leaders...or anyone who is completely amoral and beyond the law.

But if you really want to read an interesting story, look into the airport at Mena, Arkansas that was a huge drop-off point while Bill Clinton was Governor of that state. The airport was the prime stopping area (known as "A-12") from South America to the United States. Or, if you're really interested in what these folks are capable of, track down a series of articles written by Gary Webb that appeared in San Jose _Mercury News_ during 1996. These stories chronicle how the CIA flooded the Los Angeles streets with crack cocaine during the 1980's. Yeah, they're a real nice bunch of guys.


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## dilloduck (Apr 29, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Of course, if times got rough the Controllers could always fall back on the Vatican to run their money for them (no traces).
> 
> While we're on the topic of front companies, there's always the Far East Trading Company that the CIA used to run opium and clean their money.
> 
> ...


Well let me know when you accquire the knowledge you need to actually do someting other than pretending to accomplish anything.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 29, 2006)

Keep tellin yourself that bud. I'm obviously doing more than you are. And besides, gotta start somewhere right? 

PS - Don't tell me how effective I am being with my efforts. You my friend, are not the judge of that. God is. And if you put yourself ahead or above me one more time like that, I will refuse to respond to any of your posts in the future.


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## dilloduck (Apr 29, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Keep tellin yourself that bud. I'm obviously doing more than you are.



I'm all ears----what are you doing? Starting the revolution? Where do we sign up?


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## Said1 (Apr 29, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Keep tellin yourself that bud. I'm obviously doing more than you are.



Such as?

Note: This must include things non-internet related.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 29, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I'm all ears----what are you doing? Starting the revolution? Where do we sign up?



Patience my friend! I have much more to post here! I am not going to jump the gun! There is still so much to expose BEFORE we can take any action. So....while it is important that everyone remain on alert because while at any moment these "Controllers" can make their move on us, we need to keep the same mindset as they do.

But I am nowhere near where I need to be on this board. And as I said before, Knowledge leads to action. And the knowledge will come first. Jesus didn't come barreling out of Heaven with loaded guns my friend, rather He spent time preparing Himself and those around Him with the proper knowledge, and today our World is a better place because of that.

Now am I comparing myself to Jesus? Of course not. But I can think of no one more fitting to use as an example than Him.


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## dilloduck (Apr 29, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Patience my friend! I have much more to post here! I am not going to jump the gun! There is still so much to expose BEFORE we can take any action. So....while it is important that everyone remain on alert because while at any moment these "Controllers" can make their move on us, we need to keep the same mindset as they do.
> 
> But I am nowhere near where I need to be on this board. And as I said before, Knowledge leads to action. And the knowledge will come first. Jesus didn't come barreling out of Heaven with loaded guns my friend, rather He spent time preparing Himself and those around Him with the proper knowledge, and today our World is a better place because of that.
> 
> Now am I comparing myself to Jesus? Of course not. But I can think of no one more fitting to use as an example than Him.



I think Jesus knew how to handle an audience better than you.


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## Said1 (Apr 29, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Such as?
> 
> Note: This must include things *non-internet related*.




*crickets chirping*


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## dilloduck (Apr 29, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> *crickets chirping*



hey---KNOWLEDGE is being poured into you head--be patient !!


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## CrimsonWhite (Apr 30, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> I'm part of Hierarchy #1. Please tell me my role in this.



Still waiting eagerly for an answer.


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## NuclearWinter (May 1, 2006)

onthefence said:
			
		

> Still waiting eagerly for an answer.



Tell you what....I'll get to the Freemasons and such as soon as I get there. At the moment though I am going to finish covering the New World Order and how it is going to affect every single one of us if we don't stand up to stop it.


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## NuclearWinter (May 1, 2006)

One of the primary reasons that America was involved in the Vietnam War (apart from the obvious profit motive) was to control and monopolize the opium trade in the Golden Triangle. We were so militarily superior that we could have won that war in a matter of months. But winning the war wasn't our objective. We had another one: to gain control of the area's opium fields and the ultimate production of the drug (heroin) trade.

Before America ever entered Korea or Vietnam, the Golden Triangle was run by French Intelligence and the Corsican Mobsters. Our interest in this area began in about 1950 when we realized how important the Golden Triangle (the Southeastern Asian countries of Laos, Burma, and Thailand) and the Golden Crescent (Middle East) were in terms of opium production. 

Burma was by far the Golden Triangle's focal point, and the CIA began infiltrating it until 1961, when our mercenaries were driven from the area by warlords in power who recognized their country was now a major player in the international drug scene. By the late 1960's, the Golden Triangle accounted for 70% of the World's opium production. With output sky high, entire villages became totally dependent upon opium.

As the Vietnam War raged out of control, 57,000 American soldiers were killed in those jungles and the CIA became the largest mover of drugs in the World. While our troops were fighting, at least 15-30% of them became addicted to smack ("China White").


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## NuclearWinter (May 1, 2006)

The CIA went in with their small planes and helicopters and re-opened the transport routes that had been destroyed or made unsafe. They then moved heroin from one of the largest drug labs in the World (in Northern Laos), via three different routes into Nam (through the South Vietnamese Government), and then eventually to our troops.

If you doubt that factions of our Government were (and still are) involved in the drug trade, then you should check out the _Wall Street Journal_ article written by Jonathan Kwitny where he reveals how heroin was shipped to the United States in the corpses of killed American soldiers. According to him, their bodies were slit open, their innards were removed, then crammed full of heroin -- sometimes up to 50 pounds per body. He says that they were then flown to America (with "Priority" status) via the CIA's own personal airline (Air America), where they landed at Norton Air Force Base, in California.

It's important to note that opium literally stinks. It has a very distinct aroma....one that is inescapable. Thus, all the pilots, loaders and everyone at the bases who unloaded these "shipments" definately must have known what was going on. The CIA became so brazen in their efforts that they even set up a brand named soft drink company in Laos  as a front operation for processing heroin.


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## NuclearWinter (May 1, 2006)

By the way, that guy Webb that I mentioned about above, who was trying to expose the CIA for what they really are, well guess what, Webb happened to get "suicided" last year. Ain't that interesting. If I'm not mistaken, "he shot himself" TWICE in the head. Yeah, boy. That first shot just didn't do the trick, so he had to shoot himself AGAIN. LMFAO.

If thats not proof of the atrocities of the Controllers than I don't know what is.


----------



## NuclearWinter (May 1, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I think Jesus knew how to handle an audience better than you.



Did you expect me to disagree with that or something?


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## NuclearWinter (May 1, 2006)

After the United States "officially" pulled out of Vietnam in 1973, fighting continued in this area -- Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand -- right up through the 1980's. But after we left, guess what we left behind -- Prisoners of War.

Our government made a half-assed attempt, via Operation Grand Eagle, to rescue these men, but they didn't really want them to come home. Why? Because these guys knew too many of our dirty drug dealing secrets.

In 1986, the infamous Burmese Warlord Khun Sa stated on videotape that his country's entire supply of opium -- 900 tons per year -- was purchased by the United States Government. Numerous individuals involved in the POW recovery movement tried notifying our government and the national media of this debacle, but their attempts rained on deaf ears.


----------



## Said1 (May 2, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> hey---KNOWLEDGE is being poured into you head--be patient !!




*Chirp, chirp*


----------



## sitarro (May 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> After the United States "officially" pulled out of Vietnam in 1973, fighting continued in this area -- Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand -- right up through the 1980's. But after we left, guess what we left behind -- Prisoners of War.
> 
> Our government made a half-assed attempt, via Operation Grand Eagle, to rescue these men, but they didn't really want them to come home. Why? Because these guys knew too many of our dirty drug dealing secrets.
> 
> In 1986, the infamous Burmese Warlord Khun Sa stated on videotape that his country's entire supply of opium -- 900 tons per year -- was purchased by the United States Government. Numerous individuals involved in the POW recovery movement tried notifying our government and the national media of this debacle, but their attempts rained on deaf ears.



I remember this from Rambo.........."I'm your worst nightmare...'


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## 007 (May 2, 2006)

*yawn*........ is Nastradomus done yet?


----------



## dilloduck (May 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Did you expect me to disagree with that or something?



No--It was sort of a heavy duty HINT that you have lost your audience--except for the hecklers.


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## Mr.Conley (May 2, 2006)

Winter,
You've made a lot of statements in your posts, but do you have any proof, any links to back up what you are saying> If you could provide some legitimate, 3rd party support for your claims then people would look at you position very seriously.


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## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2006)

Mr. Conley,

All a person has to do is to do some research on the names of some of the people that I am listing, the operations conducted by the Government, the volume numbers and articles that I am posting of, and the rest of the people and places and things that I am posting about and a person will come to find absolutely that I am speaking from the Truth. The Truth means everything to me. And I wouldn't trade it for some lies.


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## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2006)

Prior to becoming involved with the countries that we now associate with the "Contra War", the first area of major drug trafficking occured in Cuba while Battista was still in power. During that time, Santo Trafficante Jr. ran the show, and Cuba was a major pipeline for heroin coming into the States. It also harbored scores of gangsters who kept their enterprises going with gambling, booze, arms, and prostitution. 

When Fidel Castro came into power in the late 1950's, the Mob's entire operation was shut down. Since the CIA had their fingers in the same pie for years, both of them were affected by this turn of events. After seven or eight unsuccessful attempts to knock off Castro between 1959-1965 (under code names ZR/RIFLE, Operation Mongoose, and JM/WAVE in which they used poisoned cigars, hallucinogens, ect.., to kill and discredit Castro) the CIA turned their attention to new horizons -- Panama, Nicaragua, and beyond. 

In the late 1970's, some of the same folks who tried to snuff Castro and who may have also been used in the Kennedy Assassination and Watergate burglary traveled to Central America. Headed by Ted Shackley, Thomas Clines, Felix Rodriguez, Frank Sturgis and Edwin Wilson, the program had over 12,000 operatives at its height. If you do any research, you'll keep finding the same names popping up over and over again.


----------



## dilloduck (May 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Mr. Conley,
> 
> All a person has to do is to do some research on the names of some of the people that I am listing, the operations conducted by the Government, the volume numbers and articles that I am posting of, and the rest of the people and places and things that I am posting about and a person will come to find absolutely that I am speaking from the Truth. The Truth means everything to me. And I wouldn't trade it for some lies.



Are you sure you're not Nostradamus ?


----------



## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2006)

The most recognizable personality from that era was Manuel Noriega. While head of the CIA in 1976, George Bush, Sr. would routinely have lunch with the Panamanian strongman and authorize hundreds of thousands of dollars in CIA payments to him each year in exchange for his assistance in transporting contraband into America. 

Noriega's name also appeared on at least 50 CIA files as a drug dealer. There is even an infamous photograph of Bush and Noriega standing side-by-side with grins plastered across their faces. 

Everything was rolling along smoothly until Noriega bucked the system and tried to become "independent". Here's the scenario: 

*1.* Noriega would receive CIA payments for his involvement in the flow of drugs through Panama. 

*2.* He then used this money to build a national, independent network in his country. 

*3.* He eventually tried to go solo and keep all the drug money for himself instead of transferring it to the CIA. 

Realizing that Noriega was out of line and unable to be controlled any longer, our Government marked him as a drug lord, vilified him in the media, invaded his country, wiped away his operations, arrested him and then put a new man in his place -- someone who'd better mind his P's and Q's. 

Pretty simple. We even sent one of our notorious Golden Triangle high-rollers, Richard Armitage, to tell Noriega that he'd better get back in line, or else. Since he wouldn't see things "our way", Noriega was captured and imprisoned. What a lovely business!


----------



## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2006)

Reams of material have been published that document our Government's experimentation with drugs on both witting and unwitting subjects. Administered under the CIA's nefarious "MK-ULTRA" program and also by the Department of Defense, one thing needs to be very clear, which is that segments of our government were intensively involved in experimentation with drugs and many of the agents became big-time trippers and users themselves. 

Below are a few random notes that expose the tip of this disturbing iceberg: 

*** LSD was discovered in 1948 by Dr. Albert Hoffman, who worked for Sandoz Pharmaceuticals in Switzerland. 

*** At the national institute for Mental Health in Lexington, Kentucky, under the supervision of Dr. Harris Isabell, seven different drug addicts were administered LSD so that they continuously tripped for 77 days straight. 

*** Operation Midnight Climax was an MK-ULTRA program in which hallucinogens were used on unsuspecting subjects to see if a Manchurian Candidate could be created to become an assassin, all the while testing LSD's effectiveness in regard to brainwashing. 

*** "Heroin" is a trade name created by Bayer. 

*** Eli Lilly was the first company to produce synthetic LSD for the CIA. 

*** Eli Lilly is the largest drug company that produces the precursor chemicals needed to manufacture cocaine and heroin. When you think about it, you have cocoa plants and poppy bulbs, but without the necessary ingredients needed to transform them into their final state, their use would never be so widespread. 

*** Eli Lilly sends materials directly to Columbia to process their cocoa leaves into cocaine, and our government does nothing to stop these shipments, although they know full well what they're being used for. Two recognizable political names of the 1990's own huge shares in this company -- and they are George Bush and the Quayle family.


----------



## dilloduck (May 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> The most recognizable personality from that era was Manuel Noriega. While head of the CIA in 1976, George Bush, Sr. would routinely have lunch with the Panamanian strongman and authorize hundreds of thousands of dollars in CIA payments to him each year in exchange for his assistance in transporting contraband into America.
> 
> Noriega's name also appeared on at least 50 CIA files as a drug dealer. There is even an infamous photograph of Bush and Noriega standing side-by-side with grins plastered across their faces.
> 
> ...



tell me more !! please  tell me more !!!


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## fabb1963 (May 3, 2006)

"Sargent Shriver and Richard M. Nixon have "excellent vibrations" or the good of America and will serve their country well. The former, however, must guard against assassination attempts." 

Richard M. (Í'm not a crook, resigned from presidency in disgrace, oil embargo, open the door to China) Nixon served his country well?  I think Jeane missed the boat on that one.


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## fabb1963 (May 3, 2006)

1.  Jeane Dixon, the famed "seer" from Washington DC, predicted a major international confrontation over "peaceful islands of the South Pacific" in 1983. She also predicted that Princess Diana would release news of a new pregnancy "before the year 1983 is very old."

2.  Jeane Dixon saw the Reverend Jimmy Swaggart's ministry being "saved" by a last minute donation in 1990, rather than being destroyed by another scandal involving a prostitute.

3.  Jeane Dixon predicted in the January 17, 1995, issue of the Star, saying, "A new, antibiotic-resistant strain of influenza causes coast-to-coast misery in early winter and again in early spring. Scientists will trace the virus to polluted water." It's not surprising. Antibiotics don't work on viruses, which is why you don't prescribe them for the common cold, flu, AIDS, etc. 

4.  Washington, D.C., "psychic," Jeane Dixon, who supposedly has a "gift of prophecy," saw that Fidel Castro would be overthrown, possibly resulting in Cuba's becoming part of the United States, and that Virginia governor Douglas Wilder would gain enough support for a "vice presidential invitation." President elect Bill Clinton, however, she described as "the Democratic shooting star," and said that "an organization of women will try to block his path. President Bush's ratings would climb, resulting in his reelection." She also predicted "a promising economic upturn in the spring," and that "broccoli will become the miracle vegetable of the nineties."

5.  Jeane Dixon issued her predictions for the aftermath of the Gulf War. While she did contain the correct prediction of the release of the Western Hostages in Lebanon, she also predicted that Saddam Hussein would either be assassinated or be put to trial for war crimes in a Moslem court. She also saw terrorist attacks being made against the British Royal Family and Monaco's Prince Rainier (now impossible with his death) and predicted that the world would be stunned as "the old order" in China, Korea, and Japan suddenly fell apart like the Berlin Wall. No major changes occurred in any of these governments during 1991.

6.  Jeane Dixon, one of the country's best known psychics, in the July, 1995, issue of the Star, forecast: "a stunning outcome to the O.J. Simpson trial will be a result no one predicted. I can see that O.J. will walk." She was right. But Dixon could just as easily claimed success if Simpson had been found guilty or the jury had failed to reach a decision. "A guilty verdict or hung jury will keep O.J. Simpson in jail through most of this year," she predicted in the January 17, 1995 issue of the Star. "I don't see him walking away a free man until an appeal," Dixon predicted in the April 25, 1995, issue of the tabloid. 

7.  Dixon predicted a holocaust for the 1980s and that Rome would then rise and become the world's foremost center of culture, learning, and religion; and that the Middle Eastern child whose birth she "witnessed in the vision with Queen Nefertiti" on February 5, 1962, will unite all warring creeds and sects into one all-embracing faith (ibid.: 193).

8.  Ms. Dixon claimed that she first began peering into the future when she was about five years of age. Thousands around the country swore by her claims, and many would scarcely make a significant decision without consulting Dixons horoscopic advice.

As a prophetess, however, the lady was a dismal failure - as all her kind are. What do the following predictions have in common?

Russia will be the first nation to land a man on the moon. 
World War III will break out in October, 1958. 
Walter Reuther will be a Democratic candidate for President in 1964. 
There will be no significant congressional legislation in 1965. 
Their commonality is this: They all proved to be false prophecies.

Russia has never put a man on the moon. World War III has not broken out yet. Walter Reuther was never a candidate for President. And in 1965, congress passed both the Medicare bill and the Civil Rights Act.

9.  The endless chain of Dixon's major failed predictions (such as Tom Dewey as assistant president, the fall of India's Nehru that never happened, Richard Nixon's return to office, germ warfare in 1958 with China, a monster comet striking the Earth, and the election of a female U.S. presidentthe last two to have taken place in the 1980sand the dissolution of the Roman Catholic Church before 1990) establish that her actual, written record is hardly impressive. 

10.  False Prophecies Although Jeane Dixon supposedly has made some predictions that have come true, she has made many other prophecies that have failed. These include:

A. World War III would begin in 1954. (See other World War III date in #8)
B. Red China would be admitted to the United Nations in 1958. This did not occur until 1971. 
C. The Vietnam war would end in 1966. It did not end until 1975. 
D. On October 19, 1968, she predicted Jacqueline Kennedy was not thinking of marriage. The next day Mrs. Kennedy married Aristotle Onassis! 
E. Union Leader, Walter Reuther, would run for President in 1964. He did not


----------



## Hobbit (May 3, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Reams of material have been published that document our Government's experimentation with drugs on both witting and unwitting subjects. Administered under the CIA's nefarious "MK-ULTRA" program and also by the Department of Defense, one thing needs to be very clear, which is that segments of our government were intensively involved in experimentation with drugs and many of the agents became big-time trippers and users themselves.
> 
> Below are a few random notes that expose the tip of this disturbing iceberg:
> 
> ...


----------



## Mr.Conley (May 4, 2006)

Winter,
Obviously you have already done a lot of research on this topic. Why not simply post links to where this information is from? That way, people will take your position much more seriously. I realize that any of us can "look this stuff up," but that is not our duty. The responsiblity is on you to back and prove your claims. If you want to be taken seriously by at least me, then please provide some evidence.

Regards,
Mr. Conley


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## NuclearWinter (May 5, 2006)

Mr.Conley said:
			
		

> Winter,
> Obviously you have already done a lot of research on this topic. Why not simply post links to where this information is from? That way, people will take your position much more seriously. I realize that any of us can "look this stuff up," but that is not our duty. The responsiblity is on you to back and prove your claims. If you want to be taken seriously by at least me, then please provide some evidence.
> 
> Regards,
> Mr. Conley



Mr. Conley, which of the variety of subjects that I am covering would you like me to provide a website for? And you must understand that there isn't always a "website" for everything that I am covering here. Much of it is fact. However, there are many other ways to find out if this information is true or not besides clicking on a link from your computer. Alot of it WOULD require work on your guys part if you expect to prove it one way or the other. Sitting on the fence and wondering if it's true or not is not going to give you all the answers.

With that said, I have provided the names of many magazines and articles as well as a whole Sh!t load of keywords for you guys to type in at any search engine on the internet to see what you can come up with. I guarantee you that every name that I am providing here, every event or story that I am describing, is absolute historical fact. And if anyone on this board disagrees with me on that comment, then I would simply challenge them to try and prove me wrong.


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## NuclearWinter (May 5, 2006)

fabb1963 said:
			
		

> 1.  Jeane Dixon, the famed "seer" from Washington DC, predicted a major international confrontation over "peaceful islands of the South Pacific" in 1983. She also predicted that Princess Diana would release news of a new pregnancy "before the year 1983 is very old."
> 
> 2.  Jeane Dixon saw the Reverend Jimmy Swaggart's ministry being "saved" by a last minute donation in 1990, rather than being destroyed by another scandal involving a prostitute.
> 
> ...



I respect your opinion.

I take a different viewpoint about times and dates for psychic predictions though. 

I believe in psychic ability. I believe that true psychics really can see whats coming in the future. I do not believe that they should slap a date and a time on their predictions however, because time is an illusion, and in reality, it doesn't even exist. 

They do not get visions that come stock with a clock watch. Or 99% of the time I am willing to bet that they do not see time in their visions, or anything to do with time at all. In fact, the "awake" psychics (not those like Edgar Cayce), have to look at their visions in retrospect. What are the people wearing in their visions? What do the buildings look like? What do the cars look like? What do they see that could place that vision at a future time frame? It's not easy for them, and much of the time they have to guess at when they are going to happen.

I know they can see visions, and I know they can see things that are coming, the actual outcomes of events if we allow them to occur. And in some cases events that we have no control over.

I do however believe that the information in this thread is correct and is about as accurate as you may find for the next 6 year period starting from this year (2006). For many different reasons, but lets just say that I believe that the next 6 years includes all of these predictions within that time frame. 

I am not basing it off of old dates that have worn out. I am basing it off of the Bible Code along with the Mayan Calendar along with just pure visions along with the tribulation period along with my own gut feelings along with a bunch of other things. That is how I figured out the time frame. At least what I believe to be the time frame anyways.

I never go by what a psychic says when they give an exact date for their vision. I just go by their visions, and try to do my best to see the truth in their occurences. It wasn't easy narrowing them down to the next 6 years, it definately took alot of studying and work on my own part, but I really do believe that the final product is correct. And I guess that only "time" will really tell.


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## NuclearWinter (May 5, 2006)

Drugs are used as a tool by the Controllers to quell what they see as "problems".

To reiterate a few things: First, there are mind-boggling amounts of money to be made from trafficking drugs. (The World's four largest industries are: *1.* Usury, *2.* Energy, *3.* Drugs, and *4.* War.)

Political takeovers, business empires and personal fortunes have been built on the above four premises. Some people even say the CIA is the biggest drug dealer in the World, and it's no secret that their Black Budgets are largely financed via the transport of drugs, arms, and money laundering. The "Secret Team's" practices are also well-known by all branches of the government, including the FBI, the National Security Council, the State Department and DEA, and every potential investigation into it is quickly thwarted.

Finally, if all illegal drugs were completely eliminated at one time, it would send the World's economy into such a tailspin, that it would make the Great Depression look like a day at the circus.


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## NuclearWinter (May 5, 2006)

With this information in mind, we need to look at the recent figureheads who have "run" this country: George Bush Sr., and Bill Clinton. Elder Bush was the head of the CIA from 1975-76 and his link with this organization dates back to the late 1950's or early 1960's. His Zapata offshore oil rigs have also been linked to the transfer of narcotics shipments from South America to the United States.

When the biggest drug smuggler in American history (Barry Seal) was killed by a volley of gunfire, guess whose private phone number was found in his wallet? George Bush Sr's! As head of the CIA, do you really think he didn't know what was going on? C'mon!

As for Bill Clinton, his link to the Mena Airport in Arkansas is so strong that it would be easy to graduate from turning a blind eye at the state level to a national scale. Now we need to look at our current President -- George W. Bush. Considering who his father is and his own cocaine/party past, do you think there's any possibility that he's ignorant of what the Secret Team is doing? Fat chance.


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## NuclearWinter (May 5, 2006)

Some people say, "Since everyone knows that the CIA is the biggest drug dealer in the World, why not just legalize drugs."? The answer is this: We can't legalize drugs because there is too much of a MACHINE associated with it. Think about how many people LEGITIMATELY make their livings off of drugs -- drug companies, pharmacists, people in the court system, many corrupt police officers, many corrupt officials in the DEA, corrupt parole officers, investigators, prisons (which have been at one time or another the largest growth industry in the United States), as well as corrupt Laywers. It's immense! So once again, drugs = money.

Henry Kissinger said to Bob Woodward at the *Washington Post*: "Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." 

That statement doesn't directly have anything to do with drugs, but it does reflect the amount of contempt the World leaders (Controllers) have for us. If Kissinger can talk negatively about the military, just think how he sees us -- mere "peasants"! 

This comment leads to the Controllers use of drugs as a tool against it's own citizenry. Consider, if you will, drugs as a method to undermine the efforts of those who would potentially be "trouble".

During the late 1960's, the protest movement became such a threat to the Controllers that they seriously thought it would crumble their house of cards. So, what did they do? Most everyone knows about how prevalent marijuana use was during the 1960's. But toward the end of that decade and into the early 1970's, harder, more dangerous drugs began hitting the scene, especially in one of the hotbeds of fissent - Haight-Ashbury.


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## NuclearWinter (May 8, 2006)

In the span of a few years, the scene went from loving "Flower Children" to speed freaks, junkies and con men all strung-out and looking for an easy buck. 

Another example is the Black protesters who wanted equal rights. Realizing that these folks were serious about wanting change, what happened? The controllers began shipping heroin out of the Golden Triangle in the early 70's and pumping it into the inner cities, right where the protesters lived. Soon we had our first big wave of heroin use in the United States in the early-to-mid 1970's, and the Cause quietly faded away. And do people really think it was all just "coincidence"? 

Of course drugs weren't the only factor in the demise of these movements, but it was a definate contributor. 

Another example concerns the English Punk Rock movement of the mid-late 1970's. At that time the economic situation in Great Britain was abysmal. Scores of angry teenagers were politically mobilized by a new musical craze - Punk Rock. Through the Sex Pistols, Clash, Generation X, Siousxie Sioux and the Banshees and others, this movement actually became dangerous to the English Elite. 

To counter it, Johnny Thunders, ex-New York Dolls guitarist and quite possibly the most notorious junkie in rock'n'roll history (which is saying alot) and Nancy Spungen (Sid Vicious's girlfriend who was stabbed to death under suspicious circumstances) traveled to England. Thunders joined the Sex Pistols for a total death drag tour, while Nancy set her sights on (and landed) poor old Sid. Within months, as Johnny Thunders bragged, every Punk Rocker in England was a junkie. 

Johnny and Nancy, neither of whom had two pennies to rub together, somehow still managed to have unlimited access to smack and turned everyone onto it whom they met. Kinda makes you wonder how they were able to afford it all huh? Within less than two years, the Pistols disbanded, Nancy and Sid were dead, and Punk Rock fizzled into New Wave Music, which was safer, more sanitary, and much more focused on money than revolution. 


It's a perfect Hegelian Dialectic at work: 


Thesis: dangerous, political Punk Rock. 

Anti-thesis: destructive, readily available heroin. 

Synthesis: antiseptic, less threatening New Wave music.


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## NuclearWinter (May 8, 2006)

And then of course we have the marijuana farmers in the hills of Kentucky, West Virginia, and the surrounding areas. These folks are mostly dirt-poor locals who eke out a few extra bucks a year by growing weed up in the hill country. The Government stumbled on this phenomenon a few years ago, and realizing they had competition, decided that they'd put an end to the marijuana growers. 

Here's what happened. The DEA spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to eradicate little thousand-dollar patches way up in the hills of "Deliverance" country. They'd bring in agents, helicopters, and hi-tech heat-sensing equipment just to mess with these dirt farmers. 

But those guys in Kentucky are a resilient bunch, so they kept moving deeper and deeper into the woods, setting up more intricate traps and tip-off devices. Realizing that they'd never eradicate the marijuana crops, the Government took a more novel approach. 

Rather than fighting fair, the Feds flooded the backwoods market with Oxycontin (nicknamed "Hillbilly Heroin"). It seems like every partier and pharmacist in the state had a 'script for this stuff. These guys were getting so high on Oxycontin, that they didn't care about marijuana any more. This ended the competition for our Government, and at the same time they even made money off of the pharmaceutical drugs. 

Whenever you view the subject of drugs in relation to Governments, just remember, their fingers are not just dirty, they're filthy.


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## NuclearWinter (May 8, 2006)

Yes, as hard as it is to believe for many people, one of the CIA's primary roles is to support the United States economy by bringing illegal drugs into this country. How can this be, you ask? Well, one of the CIA's main responsibilities is to provide much needed cash flow banks and stock trading houses. If you find this relationship hard to swallow, then why did six of the first seven CIA directors come directly from Wall Street, with many others having strong ties to the banking community? What does being an Intelligence director have to do with high-finance? The answer can be found with George Bush, Sr. His father, Prescott, was a financial director for the Brown Brothers Harriman subsidary (Union Banking Company) that directly financed Hitler before and during World War 2 by laundering money for the Nazi War Machine! 

But lets get back to the point here, because in a January, 2001 report, it was disclosed that $1.5 trillion dollars a year is laundered through the World's banking system, and that approximately $500-600 (about 1/3) comes from the drug trade. The CIA's role, then, is to make sure that as much drug money as possible comes into our economy. 

Illegal drug trafficking is the fastest growing industry in America, and the truth is that the growth of many multi-national companies and international banks was financed through the sale of illegal drugs. And who's the leader in laundering this narcotics money? American banks. To support this claim, Mike Ruppert, a former investigator for the Los Angeles Police Department, has reference to a survey conducted with the top business and banking leaders of America. 99 out of 100 of these corporate leaders said that it would be better to keep $500 billion a year of laundered money going through the system than it would be to stop the flow of illegal drugs into our country. For, if we stopped laundering this money, mutual funds would plummet, the stock market would crash, and any possibility of paying off our national debt would be futile (as it already is). We are, regrettably, addicted to drug profiterring in this country.


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## Democrat4Bush (May 9, 2006)

You have way to much free time!!


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## sitarro (May 9, 2006)

Democrat4Bush said:
			
		

> You have way to much free time!!



That avatar did it to me again, I spit frappacino on to my keyboard AGAIN when I opened your post. Easily one of the funniest things I have ever seen, don't change it! :coffee3:


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## NuclearWinter (May 10, 2006)

Why do people think that the American Government became so obsessed with Afghanistan, a remote, desolate country? To find an answer, you have to see things the way that our Government does. Before 1980, Afghanistan produced 0% of the World's opium. But then the CIA moved in, and by 1986 they were producing 40% of the World's heroin supply. By 1999, they were churning out 3,200 TONS of heroin a year -- which is nearly 80% of the total market supply.

But then something happened. The Taliban rose to power, and by 2000 they had destroyed nearly all of the opium fields. Production dropped from 3,000+ tons to only 185 tons, a 94% reduction! This enormous drop in revenue subsequently hurt not only the CIA's Black Budget projects, but also the free-flow of laundered money in and out of the Controller's banks. These powerful folks didn't like this turn of events (and the easy money being taken out of their pockets). So, to retaliate, we went to war with them, and you all know the rest of the story.

I mean, come on people. Didn't anyone think to themselves why all of the sudden our economy turned to Shi! and then all of the sudden curious George Bush announced that Afghanistan was our enemy? I mean it doesn't take a genious to put the two together. In 2000, the Taliban destroyed the Opium fields in Afghanistan, and in 2000 our economy took a major tailspin for the worst. And in 2001, (after the 9-11 events), George Bush announces that Afghanistan is a country that harbors terrorists (of which it did) but that it was also the country we were going to go to war with. Hmmm...I wonder what the real reason that George Bush picked Afghanistan was....could it have been the opium fields!!!


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## NuclearWinter (May 10, 2006)

After we invaded Afghanistan, the Afghanistan Northern Alliance, backed by the CIA, chased the Taliban out and re-planted all of the opium crops again. Even more horrifying is that while the opium crops were destroyed, the Afghanistan farmers were planting actual FOOD crops such as wheat so that their people could eat. But then the CIA went in, dug-up the wheat, and re-seeded the opium fields. You know, when you think about these actions, it's downright sickening. So now the Afghanistan rebels run the poppy fields, and everything is back to "normal" again (albeit a very dirty, corrupt kind of normal).

So, with this very interesting foundation laid, people can learn even more about these horrible skeems that have been played upon the people of America. They can learn about the truth about many things, including the Bush-Bin Laden family connection just to skim one from the top.

The truth is out there. All people have to do is uncover it.


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## NuclearWinter (May 10, 2006)

Considering how prevalent drug trafficking is in certain political and business circles, we need to ask ourselves why the United States really went to war with Afghanistan. To answer this question, one thing must be made perfectly clear. The Controllers don't go to war over "ideals" such as patriotism, freedom or national sovereignty. Do you know why? It's because these people don't give a damn about those concepts. In fact, they hold them in contempt. 

So, why did we really go to war with Afghanistan? Historically, wars have been fought for three main reasons: gold, diamonds, and drugs. As you can tell, drugs are the constant. With that in mind, remember that in 1999, Afghanistan produced 4,600 tons of opium, which was 75% of the World's total supply. The Worlds! Their output accounted for 60% of the entire Afghan economy, and was so prevalent that they even surpassed that of the Golden Triangle.

Large portions of the CIA's "black budgets" are derived from drugs (along with arms and money laundering). Afghanistan was thus a very important piece of the puzzle. As is Iraq. As is the entire Middle East. But of course the Controllers are taking it one step at a time. Again, When the fanatical religious group, the Taliban, came to power in Afghanistan and Opium production came to a halt, the American Government got "pissed" to say the least. As time grew on, Afghanistan was only exporting less than 100 tons of opium (or 1/50th of their previous production), and the Controllers weren't going to stand for that.


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## NuclearWinter (May 10, 2006)

Our other motivation for seizing control of Afghanistan was this: inside Russia there exists an immense oil field in the remote Capsian landscape that could produce enough fuel to fulfill the United States needs for over 27 years (If it all went to our Country). There's only one problem though, because to get this supply to our existing oil lines, we had to do away with a tiny roadblock -- it's a country called Afghanistan.

The biggest problem with this scenario is that we're still relying on a form of "old-thought". Fossil fuels are choking our Planet. If General Motors and Mobil have things their way, we'll soon have a billion cars in China. Sure, it's great for the profit margin, but it's extremely terrible for the Planet! It's literally choking us to death.

The other natural resources that Afghanistan has in addition to natural gas and petroleum are coal, copper, and zinc. The Controllers know that if they can tap into those resources, they'll be less reliant upon foreign countries such as Saudi Arabia, which now produces half of the World's oil supply. And when you think about it, from the time of the Crusades up until the 1920's, the Middle East was nothing more than a sandbox to the Controllers. They didn't care at all about it. But now, this area wields an amazing array of power. The horrifying aspect of their influence is that, by and large, many of these people are so diametrically opposed to our way of life, that they truly despise us! And yet, the Controllers and the American Government keep catering to them so that the oil doesn't stop flowing!

Whenever you hear media talk about the Controllers setting up a "puppet government" in Afghanistan, just remember what's really going on. We're only there for two reasons -- opium and oil. To reinforce this point, why, on October 21, 2001, did the military say that they were actually running out of targets to bomb in Afghanistan? If that's the case, why didn't they go in and torch all the opium fields so that they'll guarantee that no more heroin comes out of there for the next couple of years? It's something to think about.

*On September 27, 2001 in the Pakistani newspaper, Unmat, Osama bin Laden said:*

_"Drug smugglers from all over the World are in contact with the U.S. Secret Agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the United States drug enforcement department are encouraging drug trade so they can show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Manuel Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, eventually, he was made a scapegoat....Is it not that there exists a government within a government in the United States? That secret governments must be asked who made the attacks"?_

I love America myself, and I think bin Laden is a rat, but he hit pretty darn close to the mark with his comment. And now that bin Laden is on the run, we should turn our attention back towards the Controllers.


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## sitarro (May 10, 2006)

Hey Whatever,

Where are you copying this crap from? There is no way you are writing this garbage on your own, are you a plant from the controllers? You come up with this far out bunch of fairy tales and secure their identity by proving to all of us that this couldn't possibly happen.Who are the controllers, who are you really working for? Hasn't it occured to you that you are a pawn, that the source of all of this junk is nonother than your controller...........pretty scary isn't it. Or maybe there isn't a middle man at all, maybe you are one of the controllers purposely exposing everything to us and trying to sound insane so that even if someone credible would discover the same things you have already discredited it by saying the same thing earlier......and you are obviously insane.


I'm scared! Run away!!!!!!!!!!!!The controllers are after me!!!! They are trying to si le nc e me.......ugh.......goodbye board, run for your lives . . . . .. argh.     .    .    .    .


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## Mr.Conley (May 11, 2006)

First, Saudi Arabia does not produce half of the worlds oil. Saudi Arabia produces a bit less than 10 million barrels per day. That sounds like a lot until you realize that the world uses over 84 million barrels per day. The Saudis produce barely 10% of the planets oil. Most US oil is produced in either the United States or Canada- our largest supplier. We get an additional 1-1.5 million bpd from Mexico. Some from Central and South America. Most of the rest is then imported from the Gulf Region; however, this accounts for a small but significant proportion of our oil.

Second. I'm confused. I thought you said the point of these "Black Budget" projects was that since they couldn't get the funding through the Congress or support from the Executive, they had to secretly use drug money. But if its a secret, when the opium supply was threatened, how could the CIA announce to the Federal government that, "Hey our supply of money for projects so terrible we can't even tell you about them has been threatened, so we need you to go over and kick Afganistan's butt." Isn't the point that the black budget projects are secret? Plus why would the government agree to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on wars instead of just shifting production? That way they don't have to redistribute all that money, raising eyebrows and losing a good portion to non-Controller related projects. Plus, besides opium, Afganistan has no real value. You said 60% of the economy was opium anyway, and minerals like zinc are not on the verge of running out even in the US. The country is worse than worthless to us.

Third, there is no way there is an oil field so big as to supply all our oil needs for the next five hundred years in Russia. There is a lot of oil and natural gas, but not that much. Besides, why spend hundreds of billions of dollars taking over a country when they could simply go through the other, loyal stans, through India, and to the ocean. Or how about straight through Pakistan? Or how about across Russia, through Europe, to France, have the oil loaded there and sent onto America. That pipeline would hit everysingle major oil market on the planet and cost 1/10,000th as much money as invading a country. Natural Gas pipelines from Russia through Europe already exist, why not build another? What you propose is inefficent, wildly expensive, and not nearly as effective.


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## rtwngAvngr (May 11, 2006)

Mr.Conley said:
			
		

> First, Saudi Arabia does not produce half of the worlds oil. Saudi Arabia produces a bit less than 10 million barrels per day. That sounds like a lot until you realize that the world uses over 84 million barrels per day. The Saudis produce barely 10% of the planets oil. Most US oil is produced in either the United States or Canada- our largest supplier. We get an additional 1-1.5 million bpd from Mexico. Some from Central and South America. Most of the rest is then imported from the Gulf Region; however, this accounts for a small but significant proportion of our oil.
> 
> Second. I'm confused. I thought you said the point of these "Black Budget" projects was that since they couldn't get the funding through the Congress or support from the Executive, they had to secretly use drug money. But if its a secret, when the opium supply was threatened, how could the CIA announce to the Federal government that, "Hey our supply of money for projects so terrible we can't even tell you about them has been threatened, so we need you to go over and kick Afganistan's butt." Isn't the point that the black budget projects are secret? Plus why would the government agree to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on wars instead of just shifting production? That way they don't have to redistribute all that money, raising eyebrows and losing a good portion to non-Controller related projects. Plus, besides opium, Afganistan has no real value. You said 60% of the economy was opium anyway, and minerals like zinc are not on the verge of running out even in the US. The country is worse than worthless to us.
> 
> Third, there is no way there is an oil field so big as to supply all our oil needs for the next five hundred years in Russia. There is a lot of oil and natural gas, but not that much. Besides, why spend hundreds of billions of dollars taking over a country when they could simply go through the other, loyal stans, through India, and to the ocean. Or how about straight through Pakistan? Or how about across Russia, through Europe, to France, have the oil loaded there and sent onto America. That pipeline would hit everysingle major oil market on the planet and cost 1/10,000th as much money as invading a country. Natural Gas pipelines from Russia through Europe already exist, why not build another? What you propose is inefficent, wildly expensive, and not nearly as effective.




It seems you misunderstand the nature of black ops.


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2006)

sitarro said:
			
		

> Hey Whatever,
> 
> Where are you copying this crap from? There is no way you are writing this garbage on your own, are you a plant from the controllers? You come up with this far out bunch of fairy tales and secure their identity by proving to all of us that this couldn't possibly happen.Who are the controllers, who are you really working for? Hasn't it occured to you that you are a pawn, that the source of all of this junk is nonother than your controller...........pretty scary isn't it. Or maybe there isn't a middle man at all, maybe you are one of the controllers purposely exposing everything to us and trying to sound insane so that even if someone credible would discover the same things you have already discredited it by saying the same thing earlier......and you are obviously insane.
> 
> ...



For your information Sitarro, I hand type every bit of information that I post. Rarely if ever will you see me on this board copy and paste something for everyone to see. And yes, it took years for me to study this stuff, and years for me to learn about it, so keep on spitting out your insults and what nots but in the end I guarantee you that the Truth of this information will end up biting you in the ass. 

And that goes for anyone else who has closed off their minds to reality.


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2006)

Mr.Conley said:
			
		

> First, Saudi Arabia does not produce half of the worlds oil. Saudi Arabia produces a bit less than 10 million barrels per day. That sounds like a lot until you realize that the world uses over 84 million barrels per day. The Saudis produce barely 10% of the planets oil. Most US oil is produced in either the United States or Canada- our largest supplier. We get an additional 1-1.5 million bpd from Mexico. Some from Central and South America. Most of the rest is then imported from the Gulf Region; however, this accounts for a small but significant proportion of our oil.
> 
> Second. I'm confused. I thought you said the point of these "Black Budget" projects was that since they couldn't get the funding through the Congress or support from the Executive, they had to secretly use drug money. But if its a secret, when the opium supply was threatened, how could the CIA announce to the Federal government that, "Hey our supply of money for projects so terrible we can't even tell you about them has been threatened, so we need you to go over and kick Afganistan's butt." Isn't the point that the black budget projects are secret? Plus why would the government agree to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on wars instead of just shifting production? That way they don't have to redistribute all that money, raising eyebrows and losing a good portion to non-Controller related projects. Plus, besides opium, Afganistan has no real value. You said 60% of the economy was opium anyway, and minerals like zinc are not on the verge of running out even in the US. The country is worse than worthless to us.
> 
> Third, there is no way there is an oil field so big as to supply all our oil needs for the next five hundred years in Russia. There is a lot of oil and natural gas, but not that much. Besides, why spend hundreds of billions of dollars taking over a country when they could simply go through the other, loyal stans, through India, and to the ocean. Or how about straight through Pakistan? Or how about across Russia, through Europe, to France, have the oil loaded there and sent onto America. That pipeline would hit everysingle major oil market on the planet and cost 1/10,000th as much money as invading a country. Natural Gas pipelines from Russia through Europe already exist, why not build another? What you propose is inefficent, wildly expensive, and not nearly as effective.



First of all, Mr. Conley, your information is just false. No offense to you, but without statistics to back up what you are saying I cannot just take your word for it. Because I promise you if Saudi Arabia decided to stop shipping us oil today, our country would literally come to a hault.

And the longer they decided to keep us from their oil, the more and more falling apart we would experience.

I suggest strongly Mr. Conley that you do some research on the Capsian landscape before you come in here and tell me without even researching that "it can't produce enough oil to fuel the United States for an extremely long time." It could! And if you research information on it, you will discover that fact. As far as the rest of the World is concerned, there would be a ton of it leftover for them as well.

So please, without posting only your opinion, why not throw some facts in along with it as well? Just a suggestion.

PS - I would also like everyone on this board to understand that I am no oil tycoon. I dispise the fact that our Government knows that it has the technology to come up with other means of energy besides oil but continues to go for oil only because it knows that whoever controls the oil has an enormous amount of power. And that is just sickening.

No. I am one for alternative energy sources. Whatever they may be. Cleaner ones. More efficient ones. And just plain better ones.


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2006)

The Carlyle Group has an inordinate amount of access to the current administration which is used for their own personal gain, and some people may not have realized the general importance of this situation.

In the early 1990's, the Carlyle Group put George W. Bush on the board of one of their subsidiaries -- CaterAir. To keep him occupied until he could be "selected" to his future job as Governor of Texas, the Carlyle Group lent a helping hand.

But lo and behold, one hand quickly washed the other, for after George W. Bush became Governor, he appointed several people to a Board that controlled the money invested by a Texas Teacher's Pension Fund -- a total of $100 million! So, this board decides to invest this PUBLIC MONEY with a certain group. Guess who it was. Yup, the Carlyle Group! In addition, another entity - the University of Texas Board of Regents -- invested millions of dollars, too. And guess which way it went. To the Carlyle Group. So lets see -- Texas, Bush, money, and the Carlyle Group. A mere coincidence? Yeah right. Follow the money. 

A case in point is Wayne Berman, a Washington consultant and George W. Bush fundraiser who got kickbacks of $900,000+ after Connecticut State Treasurer Paul Silvester pushed tens of millions of dollars of state pension funds to the investment portfolio of a certain group. And which group would that be? Yup, the Carlyle Group!


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2006)

Are things starting to smell a little fishy? Maybe it doesn't matter that oil companies gave thirteen times more money to the Bush campaign in 2000 than they did to Gore, and that electric companies gave seven-times more. Not that I would have ever voted for either one of them, because they were both controlled by the Controllers, but come on now, thats a little one sided. There are tons of dirty dealings and shenanigans going on behind the scenes that aren't getting reported in the mainstream media. 

In December, 2001, Frank Carlucci and James Baker (both Carlyle representatives) met at the Ritz-Carlton in Washington, D.C. for their annual investor conference. Also in attendance were the representatives of another important family that had invested huge amounts of money in the Carlyle Group. And what family were these individuals from? Hold your breath, but it was the BIN LADEN family. Worse, another famous politician was rumored to be at this same meeting after he SPENT THE NIGHT AT THE WHITE HOUSE with George W. Bush. And who was it that supposedly met with the bin Laden family after spending the night at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Answer: George Bush Sr.!

Things are getting even stickier, huh? Well, Larry Klayman, spokesman for _Judicial Watch_, comments on this subject. "The idea of the President's father, an ex-President himself, doing business with a company under investigation by the FBI in the terror attacks of September 11 is horrible. President Bush should not ask, but demand that his father pull out of the Carlyle Group."

Tom Fitton, President of _Judicial Watch_, echoes this sentiment. "For the father of our current President to be doing business with foreign governments, there is a clear conflict of interest."


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2006)

Now some of you might be wondering, "Hey, did I read that correctly? That the Bush family was doing business with the bin Laden family?" Regrettably, yes, you did. 

Here's the story. Back in the early 1970s when George Bush started his first company, Arbusto Energy, Inc, his first business partner was Salem bin Laden. Yes, Osama bin Laden's brother! This fact is confirmed by the United Kingdom's "Daily Mail" which wrote that Salem bin Laden, "Invested heavily in Bush's first business venture." Salem is also a close friend of Saudi Arabia's King Fahd.

Now some may say, hey, that was a long time ago. Let bygones be bygones. But how does that account, then, for George Bush Sr.'s meeting TWICE with the bin Laden family prior to the 9-11 attacks, the second time being in January, 2000? Or how the bin Laden's have been frequented by Bush, James Baker, and Frank Carlucci over the past few years in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia?

Charles Freeman, President of the Middle East Policy Council, has said of the clandestine relationship, "If there were ever any company closely connected to the U.S. and it's presence in Saudi Arabia, it's the bin Laden Group. They're the establishment Osama's trying to overthrow."


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## Mr.Conley (May 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> First of all, Mr. Conley, your information is just false. No offense to you, but without statistics to back up what you are saying I cannot just take your word for it. Because I promise you if Saudi Arabia decided to stop shipping us oil today, our country would literally come to a hault.
> 
> And the longer they decided to keep us from their oil, the more and more falling apart we would experience.


Saudi Arabia maintains crude oil production capacity of around 10.5-11.0 million bbl/d, and claims that it is "easily capable" of producing up to 15 million bbl/d in the future and maintaining that production level for 50 years. In June 2005, Saudi Aramco's senior vice president of gas operations, Khalid al-Falih, stated that Saudi Arabia would raise production capacity to more than 12 million bbl/d by 2009, and then possibly to 15 million bbl/d "if the market situation justifies it." Falih added that by 2006, Saudi Arabia would have 90 drilling rigs in the Kingdom, more than double the number of rigs operating in 2004. 
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/saudi.html
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html
That's from the Department of Energy, Saudi Aramco, and even Matt Simmons agrees with current production levels. 

I suggest you read the entire article in covers the basics of the Saudi oil situation very well.

As for a Saudi shutdown (which they would never do). We import only 1.5 million bpd from the Saudis (We use over 20 million bpd-again see the page I posted). A lot yes. Enough to send the price up a lot yes. Not enough to destroy the US economy.


			
				NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I suggest strongly Mr. Conley that you do some research on the Capsian landscape before you come in here and tell me without even researching that "it can't produce enough oil to fuel the United States for 500 years." It could! And if you research information on it, you will discover that fact. As far as the rest of the World is concerned, there would be a ton of it leftover for them as well.
> 
> So please, without posting only your opinion, why not throw some facts in along with it as well? Just a suggestion.


Besides the fact that, assuming to growth in demand, you are proposing the there exists an oil field in the Caspian that contains over 15,330,000,000,000 barrels of oil, and that not a single oil company engineer, not a single disaffected executive, not a single Soviet report, not even a retired Russian engineer looking for a quick buck has bothered to mention it to anyone. My search shows that while there is some oil in the Caspian, it does not amount to the equivilent of over 4 times the know amount of oil to have EVER existed on the planet. Unless you have anything to show that such a field could even theoritically exist, the physical evidence does not support your case. Unless you want to, "throw some facts in along as well," I suggest you include either a. expert testimony b. links c. studies d. some other proof of your claim.

You have still failed to address my question about the "Blackbudget projects."

You have also failed to address my concerns for alternative pipelines for said


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## NuclearWinter (May 14, 2006)

Tell you what Mr. Conley, I respect you for calmness and maturity when addressming the information I am posting with your questions.

You are obviously a patient man, who is willing to discuss these issues in a civilized manner. And I would be lying if I told you I didn't admire that. I admire that in anyone.

So.....

As far as the pipeline question was concerned, I would have to answer by saying as of now, anything related to how they would operate their oil production facilities and what nots if the United States did find some way to tap into the Capsian landscape and start pumping oil out of that area, that as of right now, since it hasn't happened yet, any of our ideas are purely theoretical. And for us to debate how they would go about doing it, is pointless at the moment for the simple fact that it hasn't even happened yet.

As far as the "Black Budgets" of the CIA are concerned, you have to remember that these people are masters of secrecy, and they admit it out loud. Every United States citizen knows today that there are things that the CIA is doing that may take decades for anyone to even discover if they were ever to discover it at all. The CIA has been operating in secrecy since it's beginnings. There have been "leaks" yes, but the very fact that information has to be "leaked" from the CIA in order to become known shows that for a person to even begin to discover some of the CIA's true operations they have to get lucky and hope that someone spills the beans for them. 

If a person thinks they are just going to pick up a local newspaper or turn on the news or even log onto the internet and get down into the nitty gritty of CIA operations than they mine as well give up now because it's just not going to happen. The only way you are ever going to figure out what the CIA is actually doing is to keep your eyes and ears open to what people say who have either had ties to them, or have seen them operate in front of their eyes, or have known some other person who told them something thats credible, or if it is "leaked" into the media through what amounts to usually be an unknown source. Of course there may be a few other ways of obtaining CIA secrets, but the list is not very big at all.

The CIA is not going to come over and have dinner at your house and discuss all of it's dirty dealings with you and your family. Thats the point I am trying to make here. But when you come across crucial information that relates to the CIA from people who fall into any one of the 4 categories I mentioned above along with the others, then you should listen to them. Or at least entertain the possibility that they may be onto something.

But I'll tell you one thing, I am not going to discredit anyone who I have spoken with who was in Vietnam who claimed to have seen some pritty f-ed up stuff going on with the CIA, ect. And yes, I have stumbled across people in my life who have all but admitted to me that the CIA was doing some pritty horrendous things during the Vietnam War. And it doesn't begin there, nor does it end there. I have read articles, books, statements, ect. from people claiming the exact same thing and who have been from what I have observed to be completely honest in their forthcoming and who I refuse to believe would try and take on the CIA and our Government just to pass the time.

So....with that said...I'll try to dig something up on the Caspian Landscape real quick to see if we can actually come up with some numbers here.


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## NuclearWinter (May 14, 2006)

Well after some pritty thorough researching, I have concluded that there just isn't enough information out there for anyone to come up with a substantial answer to exactly how much oil is located in the Caspian Sea region. The simple fact is that no one has done enough research in the entire area to come up with a Factual answer. Everything is currently based on estimates.

Anyways, here is a pritty good site with some good information and ESTIMATES on how much oil could possibly come out of the Caspian Sea region and Central Asia.


The Politics of Oil in the Caucasus and Central Asia

by Rosemarie Forsythe 
Adelphi, Paper 300


With billions of dollars and crucial strategic influence at stake, the struggle for control over the vast oil resources in the Caucasus and Central Asia is a tale of political intrigue, fierce commercial competition, geo-strategic rivalries, ethnic feuding and elusive independence. Energy resources in this region are concentrated mainly in the Caspian Sea Basin, in Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan, but some of the area's other states, such as Georgia and Armenia, also play a role in energy export issues. Straddling Europe, the Near East and Asia, *the Caspian region is one of the largest unexploited sources of oil in the world.* Proven and possible reserves are estimated to be as high as 200 billion barrels, putting the region on a par with Iraq.(1) In addition, the area is rich in natural gas with estimated proven and possible reserves of up to 7.89 trillion cubic metres - as much as those of the US and Mexico combined.(2) 

The demise of the Soviet Union in 1991 and the subsequent rise of the more vulnerable and less experienced newly independent states of the Caucasus and Central Asia led to an intense political and commercial competition for control over oil resources and export. Some analysts have compared this situation to the 'Great Game' - a nineteenth-century rivalry between Victorian England and Tsarist Russia. The matrix of national identities, mentalities, goals and instruments, however, has changed significantly. In addition, the new players differ in their perception of the game, with some maintaining that the competition is no longer a zero-sum game, while others still believe that it is and see the world through a traditional balance-of-power framework. The stakes involved, however, remain unchanged -- power, influence, security, wealth. 

The new playing field is inherently complex and is further complicated by a vast array of problems. Within the region, these include intra-regional conflict, internal political instability, unscrupulous entrepreneurial operators, and a shortfall in commercial expertise and legal infrastructures. Beyond the region lie the threats of proprietorial and competing neighbours. Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan, which share the majority of the region's energy deposits, are landlocked and, therefore, dependent on their immediate neighbours for export. This makes them vulnerable to their neighbours' problems and, sometimes, to becoming a pawn in the rivalry of the larger powers adjacent to the Caucasus and Central Asia. 

The mercurial nature of the structural and political evolution of these states and of the surrounding regions makes formulation of long-term regional objectives by third-party policy-makers and Western businesses extremely difficult. Both stand to gain or lose significantly depending on whether they correctly predict the outcome of the region's many developing issues. 

The benefits of developing and exploiting the Caspian region's oil resources are clear. First, the margin between world oil production capacity and world demand is projected to narrow in the next decade, leading to greater dependence on the Persian Gulf.(3) Central Asian oil could offer an important alternative, diversifying supply. In consequence, as a powerful geo-strategic key, oil offers the region's states the wherewithal to exploit their best opportunity for true independence in 70 years. Finally, with a possible 90-200bn barrels, the potential for national and commercial profit is substantial.(4)

In a wider context, Caspian oil is tied to, and will affect, issues central to current and developing international relations. These include: 

*the political and economic future of Russia, and its behaviour towards neighbours and former Soviet republics; 

*the political and economic future of Turkey; 

*Iran's position in the region, and its relations with the West, with Russia, and with its other neighbours in the former Soviet Union; 

*the strategic consequences of greater dependence on Persian Gulf oil; 

*tension between Pakistan and India; 

*China's future policy towards its neighbours; 

*the potential spread of Islam to the region. 

This paper focuses on the Caucasus and Central Asian region as an oil producer of considerable geo-strategic importance. Looking first at the region's history and the strategic role that oil has played since the nineteenth century, the paper goes on to identify the major locations of the region's oil and the factors affecting oil development, exploitation and export. These factors include: the political interests and policies of external parties (Russia, Turkey, Iran, China, Pakistan and the US, along with other developed countries); the Caspian Sea dispute - which, in a sense, encapsulates the nature of the intra-regional competition; the internal political problems of the region's states; and the technical and commercial impediments to implementing oil projects. After covering the largest oil development projects as specific cases, the paper discusses principal short- and long-term export options, including the complex issue of pipelines, and concludes by suggesting how the regional states, the US, Russia and other key actors could develop their policies to encourage stable exploitation of Caspian oil.

Major Oil Deposits 

The largest oil deposits in the Caucasus and Central Asia are located in Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. Other deposits and smaller projects exist throughout the region, in Georgia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Armenia. Estimates of proven and possible reserves across the entire area run to 200bn barrels of oil product. This includes about 30bn barrels of discovered reserves, approximately equal to those of the North Sea. Post-Soviet regional accessibility has led to substantially increased involvement on the part of Western businesses. *The more sophisticated technology and geophysical expertise they brought with them have produced reserve estimates much higher than official Soviet figures, which were based on explorations conducted 40 years ago, before the development of advanced methods for finding and exploiting deeper deposits.* The region's strategic importance increases with the growth in its discovered oil. 

The Caspian Sea area is particularly rich in oil deposits. Recent geophysical estimates indicate that the area holds far more than the Soviet estimate of 10bn barrels.(12) The sea's southern end has attracted most exploration because, until recently, the countries governing the region did not have access to the technology necessary to analyse the north, which suffers from poor infrastructure and bad weather. Additionally, the hydrocarbon reservoirs are very deep, and strong currents make geophysical work difficult. 

*Kazakhstan has much larger reserves than were estimated during the Soviet period.* The 12 sedimentary basins in eastern and central Kazakhstan 'possess the characteristics of world-class basins and some have the potential to contain giant oil- and gas fields', in addition to those already discovered.(13) After Russia, Kazakhstan is considered the richest of the former Soviet republics in oil and gas resources, with more than 60bn barrels, according to industry analysts. Azerbaijan, a significant source of oil for more than a century, has the geophysical potential for much greater production than Soviet geologists thought. Turkmenistan, whose major resource wealth is natural gas, ranks third among the regional states in estimated oil reserves, although a recent domestic report, based on up-to-date geological studies, claims that the country's reserves may be as high as 46bn barrels.(14) Uzbekistan, with its 230 known oil- and gas fields, and Georgia also possess energy reserves, though not on the scale of their neighbors.(15) Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are thought to have minimal deposits. 

It is therefore ironic that, newly independent, and possessing higher-than-expected oil reserves, all the relevant oil-producing countries of the region, except Uzbekistan, have experienced declining production levels against a background of poorly performing economies. This can be attributed to the difficulty in short-term capitalisation on discovered reserves. Further obstructions of regional oil-based economic growth are 'the fragmentation of the All-Union industry, the subsequent breakdown of business links between technologically-interdependent national enterprises, inadequate equipment and material supplies and lack of capital investments ... and huge payment arrears built up by insolvent downstream enterprises'.(16) While the Caucasian and Central Asian states are strong from the point of view of oil potential, they are afflicted by infrastructural weakness leading to slow economic growth, and a degree of international vulnerability. 


http://www.treemedia.com/cfrlibrary/library/background/forsythe.html


----------------

So again, these are merely estimates, but you can easily see why the United States would want to tap into the Caspian Sea and why the Controllers would do whatever it took to make sure that happens.

And while right now Mr. Conley it may be impossible to determine whether your 15,330,000,000,000 barrels of oil could be found there (And you never explained how you came up with that number), it has already been ESTIMATED that there are more than 200,000,000,000 barrels of oil in the area to be discovered. And the key word is Estimated. Which means that no one currently knows exactly much is actually out there.


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## Mr.Conley (May 15, 2006)

Ahh. 200 billion barrels. Thats a sizable amount, but not enough for 500 years.
1. The world uses 84 million barrels of oil per day.  http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/mer/contents.html

2. Take 84 million and multiply by 365 for annual consumption.
84,000,000x365=30,660,000,000 or about 30.7 billion barrels per year.

So this shows us that there is an estimated 6 years of oil in the Caspian at current levels.
What you also have to remember is that with current technology, only about 30% of the oil in a field can be extracted, so in reality, the figure is even less (Although your article did not state whether the estimate was total reserves or total _recoverable_ reserves.) However, new technologies being introduced into extraction have raised extraction rates to as high as 70%, so we will see.
In other words, the oil available from the Caspian is significant, but not Earthshattering. The Russians should still extract and it will play a major role in Asian politics, but the US will probably see very little of that oil simply because of its remote location.


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## Mr.Conley (May 15, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> As far as the pipeline question was concerned, I would have to answer by saying as of now, anything related to how they would operate their oil production facilities and what nots if the United States did find some way to tap into the Capsian landscape and start pumping oil out of that area. Right now, since it hasn't happened yet, any of our ideas are purely theoretical. And for us to debate how they would go about doing it, is pointless at the moment for the simple fact that it hasn't even happened yet.


Understandable. I'm just saying that I doubt the US would wage a multibillion dollar waf when they could just as easiliy build the pipeline around Afganistan either through the other "stans" and India or across Russia and Europe that would cost about 500 million. The fields are potentially lucrative, but will require years to develop. By that time, the owners will be able to extract a higher profit by selling their oil directly to China or India then by shipping from pipeline to ship to the United States. I don't think this is the reason; it's just to impractable and expensive to justify an invasion.


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## Mr.Conley (May 15, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> As far as the "Black Budgets" of the CIA are concerned, you have to remember that these people are masters of secrecy, and they admit it out loud. Every United States citizen knows today that there are things that the CIA is doing that may take decades for anyone to even discover if they were ever to discover it at all. The CIA has been operating in secrecy since it's beginnings. There have been "leaks" yes, but the very fact that information has to be "leaked" from the CIA in order to become known shows that for a person to even begin to discover some of the CIA's true operations they have to get lucky and hope that someone spills the beans for them.
> 
> If a person thinks they are just going to pick up a local newspaper or turn on the news or even log onto the internet and get down into the nitty gritty of CIA operations than they mine as well give up now because it's just not going to happen. The only way you are ever going to figure out what the CIA is actually doing is to keep your eyes and ears open to what people say who have either had ties to them, or have seen them operate in front of their eyes, or have known some other person who told them something thats credible, or if it is "leaked" into the media through what amounts to usually be an unknown source. Of course there may be a few other ways of obtaining CIA secrets, but the list is not very big at all.
> 
> ...


I get what your saying. If the CIA is as dark as you claim, then there is no way anyone could ever really find out without already being in so deep that they can't come out. 

Here is my question though. There supposed projects that are so secret and terrible that they can't tell Congress because they wouldn't receive the funding. If, as you claim, they made money from drugs to pay for it and the closure of Afganistan hurt their profits, how could the CIA convince Congress to invade a country for a reason (drug money) that they can't tell them to do something (horrible experiments) that they can't say. Congress isn't going to invade a country because the CIA says, "Hey, go invade Afganistan, we can't tell you why though."


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## Said1 (May 15, 2006)

NucWint:

I think you  need to join this team:Security Culture 

Rah, rah.


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## NuclearWinter (May 15, 2006)

Very good give and take session there Mr. Conley. I appreciate your input. Perhaps the original figure I used would be better for just the United States alone. However, I still stand by my statement that no one actually knows how much oil reserves exist out there in the Caspian region in terms of it's entirety. And perhaps, if the entire area was scanned for oil, from top to bottom, it might be found that if we had the technology to dig it all up, that we could fuel the World's needs for about that amount of years.

Unfortunately though, as much as I love sticking on one subject to milk out all of the facts that we can about it, I need to press forward with my posting. However, please continue putting your input into the equation Mr. Conley because I am sure that I'm not the only one who likes to see what you have to offer here.


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## NuclearWinter (May 15, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> NucWint:
> 
> I think you  need to join this team:Security Culture
> 
> Rah, rah.



lol. Thanks Said1. I'll keep that in mind.

Kinda like the 1 man team I got going at the moment though. I don't really need much more than that. Eventually, when the truth of this information is finally revealed to the people, I have a feeling that we'll all be rising up together anyways. Call me crazy.


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## NuclearWinter (May 15, 2006)

But to get back to what I was mentioning before, about the Bush-Bin Laden family connection.

This information changes the entire complexion of the "War on Terrorism" doesn't it? I mean, the bin Laden family invested $2 million into the Carlyle Group, but that's only what's been "seen". A foreign investor with ties to the bin Laden's told the European _Wall Street Journal_ on September 28, 2001 that, "The family's overall interest with Carlyle is considerably larger." And according to the _Wall Street Journal_ on September 27, 2001, guess who brokered these deals between the bin Laden's and Carlyle? Good 'ol George Bush, Sr!!

So, due to the touchy nature of this relationship, the bin Laden's pulled their investment money out of Carlyle in October 2001. But let's stop for a moment and examine this situation. George Bush had invested money into the Carlyle Group, and was also employed by them. Likewise, the bin Laden's were substantial investors in the Carlyle Group, and have had business ties with George Bush for 30 years since the early 1970's. Now you have to ask yourself, how does the Carlyle Group derive a large percentage of their revenue? Answer: From foreign military contracts and America's War Machine!


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## NuclearWinter (May 15, 2006)

Zeroing in on this sinister configuration of forces, the _Wall Street Journal_, on September 27, 2001 in their "Special Report": Aftermath of Terror" section stated: "If the United States boosts defense spending in the quest to stop Osama bin Laden's alleged terrorist activities, there may be one unexpected beneficiary: Mr. bin Laden's family."

Is it starting to sink in yet? George Bush, Sr. is tied to the Carlyle Group and America's War Machine like the spots on a leopard. And guess what his son - the current President of the United States -- wants to do very soon -- wage another war in the Middle East. And the bin Laden family, former investors in the Carlyle Group, also have a direct family member acting as key player in this scenario -- their brother, Osama bin Laden.

Sons, brothers, business ties, investments, the Carlyle Group, huge amounts of profits to be made, oil pipelines running across Afghanistan, and America's War Machine. Do these connections and inter-related "coincidences" stink to high Heaven? You better believe they do.


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## Mr.Conley (May 16, 2006)

About 27 years if the oil just went to the US...not that it would.

While you are correct that it is theoritically possible for there to be a significantly higher amount of oil in the region. Most estimate are ususally in the range of 10-20%. A few are off by larger amounts, but I've never heard of any estimate being off by  factor of 20.


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## Mr.Conley (May 16, 2006)

I have heard about the bin Laden/Carliyle connection somewhere. However, I believe the family pulled out right before or soon after Bush Sr. joined.

The bin Laden's are supposedly the second richest family in Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden's father I believe had several dozen children. Osama was disowned by the family after he became a terrorist, so they don't have a connection anymore. The family made its money in construction. I don't think anyone should declare the entire Bin Laden family guilty of terrorism merely because their forced association with a disowned son.


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

Mr.Conley said:
			
		

> About 27 years if the oil just went to the US...not that it would.


Alright so we have finally gotten the factual number then that the United States would be most concerned with. Or at least according to you it's the proper number. I went back to my original post regarding the 500 year period and changed it to your number (at least for now), so that people won't get confused.

Now...27 years still sounds like a hell of a long time. And yes, I understand about the not all going to our country part. But come on man...are you going to tell me that there is something like that right next to Afghanistan and the United States Government wants nothing to do with it? Because that was my original point in the beginning. We kind of got lost with all the numbers. (By the way if I ever have trouble with number crunching I'll definately know who to ask for help).

I assure you that the Controllers in our country have every intention of trying to tap into that resource just like they try to tap into all the others. And it will probably be just a matter of time before that entire area, the Caspian region, begins to shine in the lime light and the media, and becomes an issue of War.

*PS* - I would be more concerned about China and the United States soon focusing their attention on that part of the World. The last thing we need is a War between China and the United States over who gets to be the one to tap into the oil there. 

Of course, both could tap into it, but something tells me that the Controllers wouldn't allow for such a peacefull process. In fact, something tells me that Red China and the United States Government are going to be at eachothers throats about it. Just another problem easily created by the Controllers to piss both countries off. And another door opened for them to spark off their World War 3.


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

And now it's time for something that I think every single person on this board should know about. No my friends, there is no second guessing the numbers needed in this one, these are just the plain cold facts.

After World War 1, the Treaty of Versailles was formulated to force Germany into making reparations for their destruction. The Treaty of Versailles was implemented by a host of international bankers for their OWN benefit, and was ultimately approved and sponsored by the United States government. Out of this treat, J. P. Morgan orchestrated the Dawes Plan, which was a series of loans made from American banks that ultimately resulted in the formation of I. G. Farben. This super-powerful company came about because Germany diverted some of the money  that was intended to pay off their loans into the merger of two chemical and steel companies, thus creating the notorious I. G. Farben Company.

After the Dawes Plan failed, the Young Plan (1928) was implemented. But all this program did was create hyperinflation, send unemployment through the roof, and fill the German people with such abject disgust that it paved the way for Hitler's rise to power. Thus, these treaties and plans were supposed to return peace to the World and instead they accomplished the opposite. The international bankers turned into manipulative statesmen and reaped huge profits through interest payments, while Germany's war machine and I. G. Farben were created in the process.

As money was diverted from loan payments into Germany's re-armament, I. G. Farben, an immense chemical empire, stood at center stage and acted hand-in-hand with the Nazi's. Created in 1925 (three years before the Young Plan was enacted), I. G. Farben became THE powerhouse industrial force in Germany. Now here's where it gets interesting. A man named Max Warburg was on the Board of Supervisors at I. G. Farben; and his brother Paul, founder of the Federal Reserve, was also a member of Farben's American subsidary.


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

So, do you see what's going on? American bankers in the guise of statesmen created treaties and plans to loan money to the Germans, who siphoned off the money and formed I. G. Farben. Then - and here's the kicker - Farben set up a slush fund and funneled money to finance Hitler's rise to power. It's all starting to make sense now, huh?

After establishing himself as the Fuhrer, Hitler told I. G. Farben that Germany needed to be self-sufficient in regard to rubber production, gasoline, oils, minerals, and explosives. Within a short time, Farben owned coal mines, electric power plants, iron & steel factories, banks, research units, and chemical refineries. 

Farben's monopolistic control of Germany was so vast that the company produced the following statistics:


*I. G. Farben Production (For the year 1942)*


*Synthetic Rubber* - 100% of Germany's supply

*Plastics* - 90% of Germany's supply

*Explosives* - 84% of Germany's supply

*Jet Fuel* - 46% of Germany's supply

*Oil* - 100% of Germany's supply

*Gunpowder* - 70% of Germany's supply

*Gasoline* - 33% of Germany's supply

*Zyklon B* - 95% of Germany's supply


Yes, you saw that last item correctly. Zyklon B. It was the poison used to gas the Jews in the concentration camps during World War 2! Did you ever wonder where it came from? Now you know. I. G. Farben, the company that extorted reparation money and financed Hitler, was the one who produced it!!

And to give you a little view of the American arm of I. G. Farben at that time, here is a list of which American companies had representatives on I. G. Farben's Board of Directors:


*1.* Federal Reserve Bank of New York

*2.* Bank of Manhattan

*3.* Standard Oil of New Jersey

*4.* Ford Motor Company 


Pritty sick and twisted!


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

Do you know who owned Standard Oil of New Jersey? The Rockefeller family! And, would you like to know a little tidbit of information? In 1939, when World War 2 was kicking in full-bore, Standard Oil of New Jersey sold 20 million dollars worth of aviation gasoline to a German company. Who do you think this company was? I. G. Farben! When news reports chronicled Germany's blitzkrieg across Europe and their fighter pilots were decimating cities, a Rockefeller-owned American company was selling them fuel! It makes you wonder, huh?


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## dilloduck (May 16, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Do you know who owned Standard Oil of New Jersey? The Rockefeller family! And, would you like to know a little tidbit of information? In 1939, when World War 2 was kicking in full-bore, Standard Oil of New Jersey sold 20 million dollars worth of aviation gasoline to a German company. Who do you think this company was? I. G. Farben! When news reports chronicled Germany's blitzkrieg across Europe and their fighter pilots were decimating cities, a Rockefeller-owned American company was selling them fuel! It makes you wonder, huh?



No---rich people don't take sides.


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

Tell you what,

For those who don't know who the Rockefellers are, or anything about their family, now would be a perfect time for you to learn.


*Walter Cronkite - CBS Reported:* 

_"The Rockefellers are the epitome of the nation's permanent Establishments: governments change, economies fluctuate, foreign alliances shift -- the Rockefellers prevail._


On September 29, 1916, the _New York Times_ called John. D. Rockefeller America's first billionaire.

The Rockefellers protect their money via Trusts and Foundations. Ever since 1913 when the Federal Income Tax was implemented, Congress allowed the wealthy elite to protect their money so that it wouldn't be subjected to the same enslaving taxation that hinders the rest of us. By placing their money in Trusts and Foundations, these wealthy individuals give up "ownership" of their properties, but they ultimately retain control of it via positions on each foundation's Board of Directors. Thus, they don't have pink slips or titles because their assets are in trusts, yet they ultimately keep control while not having to pay income, probate, estate, or inheritance taxes. Pretty sneaky, huh?

The Rockefellers have controlled at least 200 trusts/funds at once, but the number could well be in the thousands if one uncovered all the complex layers of their financial empire. Because of all these complexities, they virtually pay no taxes. In fact, in 1970 Nelson Rockefeller testified before a Judiciary Committee and stated that although his income tax was 33 million dollars the year before, he paid NO INCOME TAXES. 

He then admitted that his actual income was 198 million -- not 33 million. But the particulars were the same -- no income taxes paid by one of the richest men in America.


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

The Rockefeller Estate in Pocantico Hills consists of over 7,500 acres and has 70 miles of private roads, 75 buildings, and underground entranceways so the "help" can enter without being seen by the followers. Gee, I wonder who else enters this way.....

The Rockefeller Estate employs 500 persons full-time to maintain the grounds.

The Rockefellers own a significant portion of America's top 50 companies: IBM, Chase Manhattan, Mobil, Kodiak, GE, Texas Instruments, and Exxon.

Their money is used to control the government, big business, energy, banking, the media, religion, and education.

John. D. Rockefeller once said, "competition is a sin." He deduced that the only efficient way to run anything was via a monopoly.

When John. D. started his oil business in 1859 as a small fry, he used bribery, coercion, violence, spies in his competitor's workplace, and a variety of financial schemes to one-up the next guy. Within 30 years, by 1890, 90% of all American crude oil was refined by John D Rockefeller's Standard Oil Company.


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

John D. Rockefeller eventually controlled two of the most valuable commodities on Earth, money and fuel -- thus giving him the ability to create financial or energy crisis whenever it best suited his (or the Controllers) interests.

Here are some of the companies that are under the Rockefeller umbrella:

*1.* Chase Manhattan - not the largest bank in the World, but one of the most influential.

*2.* The largest controlling block of stock in at least 21 major corporations, including United Air Lines, Northwest, Long Island Lighting, and Atlantic Richfield.

*3.* Majority control in IBM, Mobil, Texaco, IT&T, Westinghouse, Boeing, International Paper, Sperry Rand, Xerox, and National Steel.

*4.* Transportation companies under the Rockefeller corporate thumb: Penn Central, TWA, Eastern Airlines, United, Delta and Northwest.

*5.* Other corporations where they have financial interest: AT&T, Motorola, Honeywell, General Foods, and Burlington Industries.


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## NuclearWinter (May 16, 2006)

When someone owns a powerful financial institution, they can make loans to specific companies and governments, then call the shots for these entities and make them jump through hoops. If they don't toe the line, they don't get the money. This is the gist of high-finance in a nutshell, and one of the primary reasons why we still don't have gasoline-free cars in America. No one's lending money (or enough of it) to the companies that are trying to find alternative-source automobiles.

The Rockefeller web envelopes 37 of the top 100 industries, 9 of the top 20 transportation firms, 1 utility company, and 3 of the 4 largest insurance companies.

The _Washington Post_ once described the Rockefellers in these terms: "The power of the family fortune is beyond measure."

Quote from the Author: "Philanthropy is the essential element in the making of Rockefeller power. Philanthropy generates more power then wealth alone can provide."

In the early 1900's, John D. Rockefeller was one of the most hated men in America, his reputation horrible. So, what did he do? He hired a public relations firm to re-make his image.

How so? Well, whenever John D. Rockefeller would walk around in public, he carried dimes and threw them to all the little street urchins (of course, only when camera's were there to catch the moment).


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## NuclearWinter (May 17, 2006)

Here's the way foundations work: Once someone like the Rockefellers donate money to one of these entities (or _creates_ a foundation themselves), they assume control of it and have this foundation spend money on their companies to bring them even more wealth!

It's great for them because it's all a big cycle of donating money (tax free), then waiting for this money to be incorporated back into their own companies to generate more profits. John D. Rockefeller called it, "The Principle of Scientific Giving"!

The Rockefellers also supported the passing of a bill on graduated income tax in 1913 because they found ways to avoid it! While the rest of us keep supporting THEIR governments by paying taxes, we're also kept DOWN because we can never rise to their level. Why? The answer's easy -- we're playing on an uneven field.

A graduated income tax also keeps competitors at bay because they have to continue paying taxes (they haven't risen to the elite level yet), while the Rockefellers hide their money in trusts and foundations. Thus, their assets are non-taxable, then passed from generation to generation, perpetuating the family's king-of-the-hill status.

The Rockefellers then use groups like the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) to carry out their government plans.

*Fred Gates, who was in charge of the Rockefeller's General Education Board, said in Occasional Paper No. 1:* 

_"In our dreams we have limitless resources and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands."_


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## NuclearWinter (May 17, 2006)

In regard to higher education, the Carnegie and Rockefeller Foundations provided two-thirds of all endowment funding to colleges from 1900-1933. Who do you think controls these institutions of higher learning? They have become a quasi Ministry of Education, exerting a high degree of control over their curriculum and what is taught. 

Author Gary Allen states: "I believe those who control education will, over a period of several generations, control a nation."

Allen goes on to say that, considering all the money the Rockefeller's have given out over the past century, "we have been unable to find a single project in history of the Rockefeller Foundations which promotes free enterprise. Almost all the Rockefeller grants have been used directly or indirectly to promote economic and social collectivism, i. e. socialism-facism.

He continues: "The easiest way to control or eliminate competition is not to best them in the marketplace, but to use the  power of the Government to exclude them from the marketplace."

And how does one do that? By controlling the Government! 

John Franklin Campbell once wrote in New York Magazine, "Practicly every lawyer, banker, professor, general, journalist, and bureaucrat who has had any influence in the foreign policy of the last six presidents -- from Franklin Roosevelt to Richard Nixon -- has spent some time in the Harold Pratt House (home of the CFR)."

George Wallace (former Presidential candidate) said: "There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the Democratic and Republican parties."

Admiral Chester Ward, U. S. Navy; described the goal of the CFR as the submergence of U. S. sovereignty and national independence into an all-powerful one World Government.


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## NuclearWinter (May 17, 2006)

*James Warburg (February 17, 1950), CFR Member testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said:* 

_"We shall have World Government whether you like it or not - by conquest or consent."_


The Trilateral Commission, in the Triangle Papers released between October 1973 and December 1974, said their four major goals were:


*1.* Renovation of the World's monetary system. (Nearly the entire European continent just switched their currency to the EU in January, 2002).

*2.* Loot the United States of their resources for radicalization of the "have-not" nations.

*3.* Step-up trade with communist countries. (In the 1990's both NAFTA and GATT were passed by the United States Congress.)

*4.* Create energy crisis for greater international control. (Think back to the gasoline and fuel oil disasters a few years ago when gasoline prices rose to nearly $2.000 a gallon. Or how about what happened to gas prices after Katrina.


Dr. Medford Evans once said: "Energy makes the World go round. Who controls what makes the World go 'round controls the World."

Thomas Jefferson once said: "Since acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day, but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, unalterable through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery."


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## NuclearWinter (May 17, 2006)

When John D. Rockefeller had almost total control of the oil industry in the early 1900's, his favorite way to topple a competitor was from the inside. He'd plant spies (bugs) in their offices or bribe certain employees to undermine the firm's operations.

The Rockefeller's influence in Presidential politics began in 1894 with the election of William Mckinley, but they didn't really start determining policy until FDR was elected in the 1930s. That's when they got their hands dirty.

The New Deal wasn't implemented to help business and the stock market recover from the effects of the Great Depression, but to drag it out for a few more years. The reason? They wanted to keep the stock market on a downswing so they could buy more shares at lower prices.


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## NuclearWinter (May 17, 2006)

The two largest tank producers of World War 2 were Opel (which was a subsidary of General Motors and controlled by J. P. Morgan), and Ford A. G.

A few of the industrialists who helped Germany build it's War Machine were:


*Dupont* - armaments

*Standard Oil* - synthetic fuel products

*International Harvester* - arms manufacturing


The Kepler Circle was a group of German businessmen who supported Hitler's rise to power before the outbreak of World War 2. This Inner Core, as it was called, had representatives on it's Board from Wall Street, Standard Oil of New Jersey, and I.T.T. From 1933 to as late as 1944!

Finally, there is strong evidence that after the United States government got into World War 2 and began mass bombings of Germany, every time the Air Force targeted an area, if an I. G. Farben plant was present, they were instructed BY NO MEANS to destroy it! I. G. Farben WAS the German War Machine.


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## Mr.Conley (May 18, 2006)

You are right about I.G. Faben doing business with Standard Oil.

However, I have to ask for proof about the whole "Investment bankers designed the Treaty of Versailles" thing. I looked up a bit, but could not find anything.


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## NuclearWinter (May 18, 2006)

Mr. Conley, or anyone else for that matter, 

Just to let you guys know, Mr. Bush himself announced on TV today that he is planning to introduce a National ID Card for the Illegal immigrants in this country.

On the surface, this may appear to be a good idea. But if you guys have been reading anything I have been posting, then you will know that this is the first step to Introducing their Full Blown New World Order Agenda here in the United States. They have been planning this all along! FOR YEARS!

THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO TAKING AWAY OUR FREEDOMS. THIS IS THE FIRST STEP BEFORE THEY INTRODUCE THE CHIPS INTO THE PLAMS OF PEOPLES HANDS SO THAT THEY CAN BE MONITORED AT ALL TIMES. 

And you are probably saying, what are you talking about? The cards will be for illegal aliens and not for U.S. citizens. Are you crazy? At first the cards will be for illegals yes, but they are purposely designed to fail! Yes, you heard that right, they are designed to not work out! And the next step will be the implants into the illegals palms so that they can all be tracked "without problems".

And so again, perhaps you are saying, yes but the chips will be for the illegals and not for us. Yes at first the chips will be for the illegals, but it's all part of the Controllers plans people! Wake up! Eventually, they will introduce the chips to everybody! The illegal situation is just a tool for that to happen! They are using the illegals as a means to Start their programs!

And when you think about it, they were pritty clever with this idea. What illegal in the United States right now is going to complain about receiving ID cards as long as they and their families can remain here and work here for as long as they want? Do you think any illegal will complain about that? Of course not! And the Controllers know it!

And again, there is only massive group of people here in the United States who would not feel bad about getting their hands chipped after the ID cards turn out to be a bad idea. And who do you think they are? The Illegals! Of course! These people lose limbs and arms and what not just to get here and risk their lives in the desert! Who thinks they will actually complain about getting a fricken chip into the palm of their hands if it means they can be here forever!? They won't give a damn! And at first the American people won't either, until the Controllers announce that it is time for ALL AMERICANS TO GET CHIPPED! FOR "SAFETY REASONS". 

People, we need to wake up now. If we allow for the Controllers and their puppet Bush to introduce these ID cards into the United States, then they will have been successful in introducing their first steps for New World Order in this country! And the loss of our rights and the equivalent of slavery will be the end result! 

If we don't stop them for doing this, we're screwed.


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## NuclearWinter (May 18, 2006)

Some of the strangest and most unsettling information about World War 3 revolves around Henry Ford, the founder of the Ford Motor Company. Not only did the Ford family profit from both the Allied and Axis war efforts, but Henry Ford was actually decorated by the Nazi's for his service to Nazism!

Henry Ford once claimed that there were two classes of financiers:

*1.* Those who profit from war and use their influence to bring about war for profit.

*2.* "Constructive" financiers.

There are men who PROFIT from war and use their influence to bring about war for profit. That's some heavy information! The ramifications of this statement are mind-boggling, and point directly to evidence of PURE EVIL existing in this World. Think about it - the atrocities of war created to pad somebody's pocket? How sick!


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## NuclearWinter (May 18, 2006)

*In a 1938 interview with Henry Ford that appeared in the New York Times, Ford is quoted as saying:*

_ "Somebody once said that sixty families have directed the destinies of the nation. It might well be said that if somebody would focus the spotlight on twenty five persons who handle the nation's finances, the World's real war-makers would be brought into bold relief."_


Here's a man in the know confirming the existence of a shadowy, conspiratorial, octopus-like group that controls the World from behind the scenes. 


*Henry Ford then went on to say:*

_"If these financiers had their way, we'd be in a war now. They want war because they make money out of such conflict - out of the Human misery that wars bring."_


Now this wasn't Joe Schmo drinking beer in some bar and spouting off his mouth. This was Henry Ford, the man who invented the assembly line concept to mass-produce automobiles, and a man who was certainly gifted with inside knowledge of how the System truly operates.


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## NuclearWinter (May 18, 2006)

But Henry Ford was no Saint by any means either. He was the man who built the Soviet Union's first modern automobile plant in Gorki in 1930. He also knowingly profited from both sides of the war, for his French and German affiliated plants produced vehicles for the Axis, while his American factories profited from the United States Army. In 1928, Henry Ford merged his German assets with I. G. Farben, while in 1942, Edsel Ford urged his associates at French Ford to arm the German Wehrmacht. In essence, then, Henry Ford's factories produced vehicles that were used against American soldiers that landed in France in 1944.

If this was all there was to the story, someone could dismiss the above information as being coincidental, or circumstancial,. But regrettably, there is more.

In _The New York Times_ dated December 20, 1922, a headline read: "BERLIN HEARS FORD IS BACKING HITLER," while the subsequent article stated, "A rumor is current here that Henry Ford, the American automobile manufacturer, is financing Adolf Hitler's Nationalist and anti-semitic movement in Munich. Indeed, the Berlin Tageblatt has made an appeal to the American Ambassador in Berlin to investigate and interfere."

There were many people who were either directly or indirectly associated with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi's who said that they had no idea about their anti-Semitic underpinnings. But just remember - this _New York Times_ article ran in 1922, over a decade BEFORE World War 2 even began!

The same _New York Times_ article stated: "The wall behind his desk in Hitler's private office is decorated with a large picture of Henry Ford. In the antechamber there is a large table covered with books, nearly all of which are a translation of a book written and published by Henry Ford."


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## NuclearWinter (May 18, 2006)

Henry Ford's book that Hitler had on his desk was titled, _The International Jew_. It was widely circulated by the Nazi's and translated into a dozen different languages. Adolf Hitler even went so far as to quote sections of Henry Ford's book word for word in Mein Kampf!

There is a quote from Jonathan Leonard's _The Tragedy of Henry Ford_ that was relayed by Vice President Auer of the Bavarian Diet at a 1923 trial that reads: "Herr Hitler openly boasts of Mr. Ford's support and praises Mr. Ford as a great individualist and a great anti-Semite. A photograph of Mr. Ford hangs in Herr Hitler's quarters...."

Now, if this were the end of the story, it would be damaging enough. But it doesn't end there. The final blow to Henry Ford comes from him not only being the most famous of Hitler's foreign backers, but on August 1, 1938, a disturbing photograph appeared in _The New York Times_ where Henry Ford is receiving the Grand Cross of the German Eagle from Firtz Heiler and Karl Kapp. Now think of the year - 1938. Another World War was about to begin (Germany had already begun its expansion), and its impact would later be felt Worldwide. But what is Henry Ford doing? He's receiving the highest Nazi decoration that can be given to a foreigner - the first time that it was ever awarded in the United States!


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

By the way guys, it looks like things are alot worse than I already thought. It turns out that not only are the Illegals going to be issued a "temporary legal status" ID card, but that ALL AMERICANS are going to receive a National ID card in the year 2008. And that This card goes into effect in 2008.This will be coupled with the standardized national drivers' license in the same year. State govts. are complaining about the cost of the nationalized and standardized drivers license because of the technology involved.

So it's alot worse than I was thinking then. I actually thought for a second like we might have a chance to curb the ID before they made it official. Well, too late for that I guess.

But I have been trying to figure out what the Controllers and the Government have been up to with this whole Illegal Immigration thing. Yesterday I truly thought I had it nailed, that is until you told me the card is already official! I couldn't believe that when I read it. Now it's just a matter of time before we get "chipped" then? Shit......what's next?

I truly do believe that they are going to use these people as pawns for their game. The illegals will do anything for the right to be here...and the U.S. Government knows it. Their ID is the one I would worry about most. Because people coming here illegally from all over the World will find ways to conterfeit it. This will cause the American people to get extremely angry with the ID card for temporary legal status. And they will ask the Government to do something about it because the problem of illegals pouring in won't get any better. And so...my theory is that this is when the Government will try and push ahead with their Microchip program. Which will pritty much be purposely designed to be flawless in the Government's eyes, and they will try to make a case for them to the people. And the U.S. Government, in my opinion, is going to solve the whole conterfeiting problem by "chipping" the ones who they permit to come in and out of the United States for temporary status. And don't think they can't do it. If they can issue an ID for people who live in other countries, and who don't officially live here, and one that will be recognized whenever they enter this country, then they can sure as hell go ahead and issue them microchip implants as well. Vicente Fox or any other foreign President is not going to be complaining considering that the foreign Governments of these other countries are part of the reason that these people are flocking here by the masses.

But anyways, this is what I think is going to go down. I don't think our National ID cards in 2008 are going to be the mechanism for the Government introducing it's MicroChip program, because it just doesn't make sense. Why would Americans counterfeit their own national ID's? Why would we need to? We would still have our birth cirtificates ect. to show that we were born here. But the illegals from other countries on the other hand? They are going to have a field day with their newly issued temporary status ID's. They are going to be conterfeiting them and passing them around like they were Gold! And this is how I truly believe the Government is going to make it's case for the Microchipping program that it soon plans to implement. Problem (Illegal Immigrants conterfeiting their ID's) - Reaction (The American people demanding for something to be done) - Solution (The American Government announcing it's Microchip program). Which will eventually be used on Every U.S. Citizen.

Problem 
Reaction 
Solution

It's how they get us every time.


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

After reading the stuff I posted above about Henry Ford and his involvement with the Nazi's, you can pritty much conlcude that the implications of these facts are so profound that World events can never be seen in the same light again. Rather than unfolding independently and accidently, it now becomes crystal clear that wars, business transactions, monetary dealings, and back door deals are the order of the day. Instead of things "just happening", it is evident that strings are certainly being pulled from behind the scenes by a cabal of shadowy figures who are more interested in World power and profits than they are about Human lives or our best interests. 

What we have in effect, then, is an entrenched group of international bankers who worked in unison with big business to create a series of political upheavals that eventually lead to World War 1. After this global catastrophe, these very same figures implemented treaties and plans that padded the banker's pockets with huge loan profits while resulting in German hyper-inflation and unemployment. After the Stock Market Crash in 1929, these hidden Controllers eventually backed two world leaders - Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Adolf Hitler.

And what was the motivation for these manipulative machinations? Quite simply, the Controllers wanted another war in Europe. As sickening and repulsive as this is, it's true. THESE ARE THE TYPES OF INDIVIDUALS WHO CONTROL OUR GOVERNMENTS! This is the truth once you peek behind the veil of illusion.


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

The infamous Carroll Quigley, author of _Tragedy and Hope_ and a professor of International Relations at Georgetown University,summarized the situation very succinctly when saying, "....The powers of financial capitalism had enough far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a World system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the World as a whole."

So, what is the end result of this fiasco? Essentially, the Federal Reserve Bank now has a virtual monopoly over the American economy, while groups like the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission determine our foreign policy. The international bankers, controlling all of the above groups, then set the tone by aquiring markets and establishing an economic market base that is run by a tight-knit cadre of individuals that continue to increase taxation, perpetuate wars, manipulate our money, and keep us under their thumbs.


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## dilloduck (May 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> After reading the stuff I posted above about Henry Ford and his involvement with the Nazi's, you can pritty much conlcude that the implications of these facts are so profound that World events can never be seen in the same light again. Rather than unfolding independently and accidently, it now becomes crystal clear that wars, business transactions, monetary dealings, and back door deals are the order of the day. Instead of things "just happening", it is evident that strings are certainly being pulled from behind the scenes by a cabal of shadowy figures who are more interested in World power and profits than they are about Human lives or our best interests.
> 
> What we have in effect, then, is an entrenched group of international bankers who worked in unison with big business to create a series of political upheavals that eventually lead to World War 1. After this global catastrophe, these very same figures implemented treaties and plans that padded the banker's pockets with huge loan profits while resulting in German hyper-inflation and unemployment. After the Stock Market Crash in 1929, these hidden Controllers eventually backed two world leaders - Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Adolf Hitler.
> 
> And what was the motivation for these manipulative machinations? Quite simply, the Controllers wanted another war in Europe. As sickening and repulsive as this is, it's true. THESE ARE THE TYPES OF INDIVIDUALS WHO CONTROL OUR GOVERNMENTS! This is the truth once you peek behind the veil of illusion.



Cut to the chase and name names--this is getting boring as hell.


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Cut to the chase and name names--this is getting boring as hell.



As if I haven't provided you with enough evidence already. The names of individuals are not going to solve this problem. You can bet that as of this moment the Bushwacker (President Bush) is deeply involved in this process, along with people like Henry Kissinger, Bill Clinton, Bush Sr., The entire Trilateral Commision (meaning all the members), The Council on Foreign Relations (meaning all the members), the Club of Rome (Meaning all the members), the CIA (Meaning those at the very top who are corrupt and pulling the strings) the National Security Agency (Those who are working for the Controllers and who are being told exactly what to do to the American People), Fema (Who is supposably working with others to implement concentration camps for the masses), David Rockefeller and the Rothchilds and their family (The ones connected to the WhiteHouse and top corporations in this World). Plus the Royal Family of England Including the Queen herself along with a host of other organizations and people.

I am giving you the evidence my friend. I am showing you the proof. I am describing these people's evil motives, I am telling you that your ass is grass if we don't pull together soon and do something about all this as an entire Human race. And the only thing you can say is "this is getting boring"?

My friend, if this is how you truly plan to act when all this stuff gets going, then it will be people like you who will be the reason for the Controllers bringing us into modern-day slavery like they will. Or worse....for those who will try to resist them.


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## dilloduck (May 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> As if I haven't provided you with enough evidence already. The names of individuals are not going to solve this problem. You can bet that as of this moment the Bushwacker (President Bush) is deeply involved in this process, along with people like Henry Kissinger, Bill Clinton, Bush Sr., The entire Trilateral Commision (meaning all the members), The Council on Foreign Relations (meaning all the members), the Club of Rome (Meaning all the members), the CIA (Meaning those at the very top who are corrupt and pulling the strings) the National Security Agency (Those who are working for the Controllers and who are being told exactly what to do to the American People), Fema (Who is supposably working with others to implement concentration camps for the masses), David Rockefeller and the Rothchilds and their family (The ones connected to the WhiteHouse and top corporations in this World). Plus the Royal Family of England Including the Queen herself along with a host of other organizations and people.
> 
> I am giving you the evidence my friend. I am showing you the proof. I am describing these people's evil motives, I am telling you that your ass is grass if we don't pull together soon and do something about all this as an entire Human race. And the only thing you can say is "this is getting boring"?
> 
> My friend, if this is how you truly plan to act when all this stuff gets going, then it will be people like you who will be the reason for the Controllers bringing us into modern-day slavery like they will. Or worse....for those who will try to resist them.



Cmon --gimme the names of the --lets say top 3 controllers.


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

The top 3 controllers don't have proof of their own existence. And thats the way they made it.

What....you didn't think it was possible to "not exist" in this World to the rest of us without not actually being here? lol. Come on my friend, The people at the top are so protected and so secretive that they wouldn't use the things that we all do for knowing that we even exist. Birth cirtificates, social security cards, ect. Would mean nothing to the "top three Controllers".


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## dilloduck (May 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> The top 3 controllers don't have proof of their own existence. And thats the way they made it.
> 
> What....you didn't think it was possible to "not exist" in this World to the rest of us without not actually being here? lol. Come on my friend, The people at the top are so protected and so secretive that they wouldn't use the things that we all do for knowing that we even exist. Birth cirtificates, social security cards, ect. Would mean nothing to the "top three Controllers".



In other words--you don't know?


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> In other words--you don't know?



Correct. 

They don't have official names either. Why would they need them? Like I said, they don't play by the rules that they set for all of us. And my guess is that most of them only go by what people call them.

In fact, your number 3 is off anyways. There may only be 1 at the top. Who knows for sure? 

I do know of a name though. Pintar (or Pindar). This person...whoever he is, is extremely high on the todum pole.

I guarantee you that whoever holds that name is a very scary person indeed. So high up that the Queen of England herself would piss her pants if he were to threaten her.

*PS* - If you want to get really REALLY technical, then Lucifer (The Dark Angel) who many people believe is the "Light Bearer", is himself a prime-time player for the Controllers. But I'll get into that later.

Hell, Hitler was scared of at least 1 person or "entity" on this Earth. He admitted it. And Hitler was not one to admit that he was scared of anybody.


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

*FAQ: How Real ID will affect you*


*What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about?*

President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday.


*What does that mean for me?*

Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards.

The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.


*How will I get one of these new ID cards?*

You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.

For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa.

State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration.


*What's going to be stored on this ID card?*

At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."

Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.


*Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill?*

Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.

The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID Act in February, but by a relatively close margin of 261-161. It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate. Now that it's part of an Iraq spending bill, senators won't want to vote against it.


*What's the justification for this legislation anyway?*

Its supporters say that the Real ID Act is necessary to hinder terrorists, and to follow the ID card recommendations that the 9/11 Commission made last year.

It will "hamper the ability of terrorist and criminal aliens to move freely throughout our society by requiring that all states require proof of lawful presence in the U.S. for their drivers' licenses to be accepted as identification for federal purposes such as boarding a commercial airplane, entering a federal building, or a nuclear power plant," Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican, said during the debate Thursday.


*You said the ID card will be electronically readable. What does that mean?*

The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.

In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders. The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.


*Will state DMVs share this information?*

Yes. In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."


*Is this legislation a done deal?*

Pretty much. The House of Representatives approved the package on Thursday by a vote of 368-58. Only three of the "nay" votes were Republicans; the rest were Democrats. The Senate is scheduled to vote on it next week and is expected to approve it as well.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan has told reporters "the president supports" the standalone Real ID Act, and the Bush administration has come out with an official endorsement. As far back as July 2002, the Bush administration has been talking about assisting "the states in crafting solutions to curtail the future abuse of drivers' licenses by terrorist organizations."


*Who were the three Republicans who voted against it?*

Reps. Howard Coble of North Carolina, John Duncan of Tennessee, and Ron Paul of Texas.

Paul has warned that the Real ID Act "establishes a national ID card" and "gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit."


*Is this a national ID card?*

It depends on whom you ask. Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program, says: "It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card. They're going to scan it in. They're going to have all the data on it from the front of the card...It's going to be not just a national ID card but a national database."

At the moment, state driver's licenses aren't easy for bars, banks, airlines and so on to swipe through card readers because they're not uniform; some may have barcodes but no magnetic stripes, for instance, and some may lack both. Steinhardt predicts the federalized IDs will be a gold mine for government agencies and marketers. Also, he notes that the Supreme Court ruled last year that police can demand to see ID from law-abiding U.S. citizens.


*Will it be challenged in court?*

Maybe. "We're exploring whether there are any litigation possibilities here," says the ACLU's Steinhardt.

One possible legal argument would challenge any requirement for a photograph on the ID card as a violation of religious freedom. A second would argue that the legislation imposes costs on states without properly reimbursing them.


*When does it take effect?*

The Real ID Act takes effect "three years after the date of the enactment" of the legislation. So if the Senate and Bush give it the thumbs-up this month, its effective date would be sometime in May 2008.


http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+a..._3-5697111.html


Here's a quick story on the bill from Puerto Rico which will have to comply with the legislation.

http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues2/2...edGovEnac.shtml


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## NuclearWinter (May 19, 2006)

*Federal government enacts law requiring national IDs*


States and U.S. territories, including Puerto Rico, will be required to issue federally approved national ID cards by 2008

*By MARIELLA PEREZ SERRANO*


National identification (ID) cards are on the way. Starting in 2008, if you live or work in the U.S., or any U.S. territory, including Puerto Rico, you will be required to carry a federally approved national ID card. That is, U.S. citizens will need the national ID to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service.

In February, Congress approved a Republican-backed measure compelling states and U.S. territories to issue ID cards and passports with radio frequency identification (RFID) chips embedded in them by no later than 2008. The U.S. House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved an $82 billion military spending bill that will, in part, create federally approved ID cards for all U.S. citizens and permanent residents.

"All states and U.S. possessions, including Puerto Rico, will have to comply with the national ID card requirement. If you want to get into a federal building, on a train or airplane, or even receive your Social Security check, you will need this identification," explained Eduardo Bhatia, executive director of the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration.

The authorizing language requires all states and U.S. possessions to enhance their drivers license program. It will require the Commonwealth digitalize all drivers licenses with readable media and a digital photo. "Additionally, and this is the part of greatest contention among the states, all applicants immigration status must be verified," Bhatia said.

The authorizing legislation requires several changes to the existing system for the issuance of drivers licenses, including the digitalization of the actual license with readable media and a digital photo. The legislation also requires additional clearances for issuing agents and extra security requirements for issuing locations.

According to the bill, no funds are allocated to states or possessions to implement the necessary technology and equipment to issue the new identification cards. However, the authorizing language allows for a grant appropriation to states for the implementation of these provisions. The secretary of Homeland Security will determine these grants.

*Those who dont carry valid licenses will need to get the national ID card. Every U.S. citizen or U.S. resident will be required to have a uniform national ID.*

Critics of this measure argue the Real ID Act gives the Department of Homeland Security unfettered authority to design and issue state ID cards and drivers licenses, may also hinder religious freedom, and will create a national database. Supporters of the measure, however, state the need for a national database, uniform security measures to diminish fraud, and a system for immigration checks.

National ID likely to replace state-issued drivers license

Although still being discussed, Department of Homeland Security sources expressed the possibility for "biometric information such as retinal scans, fingerprints, DNA data, and RFID tracking technology." At a minimum, national ID cards will include a persons full name, birth date, gender, ID number, digital photograph, address, machine-readable technology, persons signature, and physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of documents for fraudulent purposes.

"States and U.S. territories, including Puerto Rico, must require and verify the following before issuing a drivers license or ID card: a photo identity document for all applicants [a nonphoto identity document is acceptable if it includes both the persons full legal name and date of birth], documentation showing the applicants date of birth, proof and verification of the applicants social security account number, and documentation showing the applicants name and address of principal residence," explained Bhatia.

The bill also establishes the new drivers license, or national ID card, will include a data chip with evidence of an applicants lawful status. For immigrants temporarily residing in the U.S., the ID must clearly indicate it is temporary and can be renewed only with documentation verifying the residency status has been extended by the secretary of Homeland Security.

States also will be required to subject employees working with or producing drivers licenses and ID cards to a security clearance, establish fraudulent-document-recognition training programs, and provide electronic access to information contained in the motor vehicle database of other states. The drivers licenses will be valid for eight years.

"People will get an ID through the state motor vehicle agency, and it most likely will take the place of a drivers license; the identification process will be very rigorous," stated House Judiciary Chairman Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wisc.). "This bill adheres to the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission, and it is needed to hamper the ability of criminal aliens to move freely throughout our society," he pointed out.

National ID cards are nothing new. "Many European countries, such as Spain and France, as well as many Asian countries, require their citizens to carry such documents at all times, with legal punishments in place for those caught without them," said Sensenbrenner. Yet, countries with similar English common-law legal systems, such as Australia and New Zealand, have rejected such national IDs.

As far back as July 2002, the Bush administration has been talking about creating measures to curtail abuse in drivers licenses. Plans to embed RFID chips in all U.S. passports and foreign visitors documents are underway.

By Sept. 11, all states and Puerto Rico will have to file a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff. This MOU mandates all states and U.S. territories verify the immigration status of everyone soliciting a drivers license.

On May 14, President George W. Bush signed the National ID bill into law. Although in less than three years Puerto Rico residents will be required to carry a national ID, there has been no word from the Acevedo Vilá administration regarding either the impact of this new federal law on the island or when the local government will begin implementing the technology required for the drivers licenses on the island.


http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues2/2...edGovEnac.shtml


---------

Yeah, it's worse than I thought. RFID chips can be hacked. The possibility for identity theft and fraud remains. The national ID and related programs are to build a database on the populace and control it.


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

Have you ever wondered how Adolf Hitler , a destitute artist who lived in flophouses, was able to become Germany's preeminent Furher-god in the 1930's and 1940's? How many near-homeless people are you aware of that have such a good fortune befall them? As many of you know, the Nazi phenomenon was not accidental. Instead, Wall Street bankers (among others) were the hidden financiers behind their meteoric rise to power. Even more regrettable is the fact that our current President's family were among those who bankrolled and profited enormously from the German War Machine.

Authors Webster G. Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin, in _George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography_, sum up the situation as such: "By deciding that Prescott Bush [George W. Bush's grandfather] and the other directors of the Union Banking Company were legally FRONT MEN FOR THE NAZIS, the government avoided the more important historical issue: In what way were Hitler's Nazis themselves hired, armed and instructed by the New York and London cliques of which Prescott Bush was an executive manager?"

The Dutch Intelligence and U.S. Government files 'confirm absolutely' a direct link between Prescott Bush, the Thyssen Family, and death profits derived from our second World War. They derived this blood-money via the Union Banking Corporation (UBC), where Prescott Bush and his father-in-law George Herbert Walker joined forces with German manufacturer Fritz Thyssen and bankrolled Adolf Hitler prior to, and during, World War 2.


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

Now, even though plenty of other companies helped the Nazis (like the Rockefeller's Standard Oil and Chase Bank, plus prominent American auto makers), Prescott Bush's interests were much deeper and sinister. Not only was there a monetary link, but also business ties that were much more involved.

A good portion of the Bush family's financial foundation was established through their assistance to Adolf Hitler. Can you feel the famifications of this statement? The current President of the United States, plus his father (an ex-President, V.P., and CIA Director) rose to the top of the American political ladder because their grandfather and in-laws aided and abetted the Nazis. The questions you should be asking are this:

*1.* Why won't President Bush admit to these family crimes?

*2.* Why won't the media directly question him about these abhorrent acts?


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

Naturally, some of you may not believe that the Bush Family directly assisted the Germans, in essence committing treason against their own country. But sadly, it's true. To prove it, let's start from the beginning.

In 1922, W. Averill Harriman, the infamous railroad magnate, traveled to Berlin where he met the members of the Thyssen Family to set-up a branch bank. And who became the President of this bank? George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush's father-in-law. Two years later, in 1924, the Union Banking Corporation (UBC) was created to join forces with Fritz Thyssen's "Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart." And who was appointed to DIRECTLY MANAGE UBC? Prescott Bush. Even better for Prescott was the fact that George Herbert Walker gave him a tremendous break in 1926 by making him vice president and managing partner in Brown Brothers Harriman. And who did Prescott bring along with him to this firm? A handful of his Yale classmates from Skull & Bones. Plus, Prescott Bush was only one of seven shareholders in UBC.

Right at the end of the Roaring Twenties, something happened that, when viewed in the context of Prescott Bush, puts everything into perspective.

Authors Tarpley and Chaitkin once again in _George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography_, stated that: "The great financial collapse of 1929-31 shook America, Germany and Britain, weakening all Governments. It also made the hard-pressed Prescott Bush even more willing to do whatever was necessary to retain his new place in the World. It was in this crisis that certain Anglo-Americans determined on the installation of a Hitler regime in Germany."


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

And who would be one of the key figures to initiate the change of the guard in Germany? The Bush Family's business partner - Fritz Thyssen. This would be a good time to take a look at what type of crowd the Bush's were running around with.

Fritz Thyssen was the first man to get the newly-formed Nazi party off the ground by giving them $25,000 in the mid-1920's. In 1931, he joined the Nazi Party, and soon became close friends with Adolf Hitler. Over the years, Thyssen came to be known as "Hitler's most important and prominent financier". And this was the Bush Family's business partner! Fritz Thyssen also became one of the primary figures in Hitler's rise to power. Thyssen was fascinated by Hitler, as he once boasted, "I realized his orator gifts and his ability to lead the masses. What impressed me most, however, was the order that reigned over his meetings, the almost military discipline of his followers."

By September, 1932, Thyssen invited a cadre of German manufacturers to meet with Hitler, and all walked away overjoyed after he answered each question to their "utmost satisfaction". Thyssen was so overt in his praise and support for Hitler that he even wrote a book entitled, _I Paid Hitler_ where he comes clean about the role he played in Nazism since October, 1923.

The proof is in the pudding! The Bush family had ties to the Nazis through their business partner Fritz Thyssen!


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

Fritz Thyssen was so influential in establishing the "German Steel Trust" which was founded in 1926 by Wall Street high-roller Clarence Dillon. And who was one of Dillon's cohorts on this project? Prescott Bush's father, Sam Bush. Thus, Fritz Thyssen became one of the men at the core of Germany's War Machine due to his position at German Steel. His family also owned a slew of banks (on the sly, of course) that allowed the Thyssens to move their money from Berlin to Holland to New York City. That way, after World War 2 came to a close, they wouldn't have to surrender their profits!

The Thyssen Family established three highly important banks during the 1920's:

*1.* August Thyssen Bank - Berlin.

*2.* Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart - Holland.

*3.* Union Banking Corporation (UBC) - New York City.

Now we're starting to get somewhere. Why? Because the Thyssens received their initial financing from two places to start their War Machine Operations: Brown Brothers Harriman, and UBC. And who were key figures at both of these places? George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush! Thus, UBC was set-up to transfer funds between Manhattan and Germany via Thyssen's Dutch banks.


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## dilloduck (May 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Have you ever wondered how Adolf Hitler , a destitute artist who lived in flophouses, was able to become Germany's preeminent Furher-god in the 1930's and 1940's? How many near-homeless people are you aware of that have such a good fortune befall them? As many of you know, the Nazi phenomenon was not accidental. Instead, Wall Street bankers (among others) were the hidden financiers behind their meteoric rise to power. Even more regrettable is the fact that our current President's family were among those who bankrolled and profited enormously from the German War Machine.
> 
> Authors Webster G. Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin, in _George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography_, sum up the situation as such: "By deciding that Prescott Bush [George W. Bush's grandfather] and the other directors of the Union Banking Company were legally FRONT MEN FOR THE NAZIS, the government avoided the more important historical issue: In what way were Hitler's Nazis themselves hired, armed and instructed by the New York and London cliques of which Prescott Bush was an executive manager?"
> 
> The Dutch Intelligence and U.S. Government files 'confirm absolutely' a direct link between Prescott Bush, the Thyssen Family, and death profits derived from our second World War. They derived this blood-money via the Union Banking Corporation (UBC), where Prescott Bush and his father-in-law George Herbert Walker joined forces with German manufacturer Fritz Thyssen and bankrolled Adolf Hitler prior to, and during, World War 2.



Hurry up with the story dude---a controller is gonna "erase" you for spilling the beans and we will never hear how this ends.


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

Too bad that you can't erase the facts though. Even Bush can't pull that one out of his ass.


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## dilloduck (May 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Too bad that you can't erase the facts though. Even Bush can't pull that one out of his ass.



Hurry !!!!!!!!  the ending please !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Hurry !!!!!!!!  the ending please !!!!!!!!!!!!



For a person who uses the quote about stumbling over the Truth, you sure do stumble over it often times yourself.


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## dilloduck (May 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> For a person who uses the quote about stumbling over the Truth, you sure do stumble over it often times yourself.



oh man---everyday----you're really sent here by the controllers to throw us off track, right?


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> oh man---everyday----you're really sent here by the controllers to throw us off track, right?


No it's just funny. You use the quote about stumbling over the Truth and picking yourself up as if nothing happened. And here right before my eyes I see you doing the same exact thing. Ironic. Thats all.


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## dilloduck (May 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> No it's just funny. You use the quote about stumbling over the Truth and picking yourself up as if nothing happened. And here right before my eyes I see you doing the same exact thing. Ironic. Thats all.



hey--I believe ya---controllers are running everything-what do you suggest we do?


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## dilloduck (May 20, 2006)

DAMN--gone again--I'm never going to feel safe in my own bed anymore.


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## NuclearWinter (May 20, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> hey--I believe ya---controllers are running everything-what do you suggest we do?


Well, the first thing I would recommend is for you to take bits and pieces of the information here and check them with the facts. After you find out that what I am posting here is true, then I guess the rest is up to you.


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## sitarro (May 20, 2006)

He is obviously a liberal Dillo. He rambles on and on for 199 posts and never even hints at a path to follow to get out of this nightmare that we have been put in by the ultimate evil controllers. I guess the controllers have figured out that cryogenic shit so they can live forever to make the destruction of the world as we know it worth while. What is the point for George Bush Sr. to sell out his countrymen when he is going to be lucky to live another decade?


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## dilloduck (May 20, 2006)

sitarro said:
			
		

> He is obviously a liberal Dillo. He rambles on and on for 199 posts and never even hints at a path to follow to get out of this nightmare that we have been put in by the ultimate evil controllers. I guess the controllers have figured out that cryogenic shit so they can live forever to make the destruction of the world as we know it worth while. What is the point for George Bush Sr. to sell out his countrymen when he is going to be lucky to live another decade?



I guess we're screwed. We're just controller meat from here on out, dammit.
 :chains:


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## NuclearWinter (May 23, 2006)

The Thyssens got assistance in this endeavor from the Dutch Royal Family, who cooperated to hide their accounts in a variety of Dutch banks. This point is significant, for the chief perpetrator was Prince Bernhard. And what did he go on to create? Answer: The infamous Bilderberg group during the 1950's!

UBC, then, became a secret pipeline for Nazi money as it went from Germany to Holland to the USA. And when they needed to replenish their supplies, Brown Brothers Harriman shipped their funds right back to Germany. Are you starting to see how this operation worked? UBC received the money from Holland, and Brown Brothers Harriman sent it back out. And who was on the Board of Directors of both companies? Yup, Prescott Bush! He was the Nazi's primary money launderer! 

Their practices became so blatant and injurious to Americans that on October 10, 1942 the U.S. Government ordered the seizure of all Nazi Germany banking operations in New York City that were being conducted by Prescott Bush. UBC, with Bush as it's director, was charged under the "Trading with the Enemy Act" and all their stocks were seized. And do you remember who owned all these stocks? There were only seven people - Prescott Bush, three Nazi financiers, and three Americans.


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## NuclearWinter (May 23, 2006)

The Government crackdown didn't end there though; not by a long shot. On October 26, 1942, the government ordered seizures of two other front companies that were run by Prescott Bush for the Harriman Banking firm. And they were:

*1.* Holland-America Trading Corporation

*2.* Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation 

Then, on November 11, 1942, ANOTHER company managed by Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker was seized under the "Trading with the Enemy Act" - Silesian-American Corporation. I don't know if you'd agree, but if such great lengths were taken in order to shut down the Bush Family's operations, you can say that they were involved in some seriously nasty business. 

John Loftus, said of this traitorous situation: "It is bad enough that the Bush Family helped raise the money for Thyssen to give Hitler his start in the 1920's, but giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war is treason. The Bush bank helped the Thyssens make the Nazi steel that killed Allied soldiers."

Tarpley and Chaitkin, in _George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography_, said it even more succinctly: "The President's family fortune was largely a result of the Hitler project."


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## NuclearWinter (May 23, 2006)

Still not convinced?

Well, how about this. The Union Banking Corporation, which Prescott Bush ran, in unison with Fritz Thyssen's German Steel Trust, produced the following percentages of the Nazi War Machine:


- 50.8% pig iron

- 41.4% universal plate

- 36% heavy plate

- 38.5% galvanized steel

- 45.5% pipes and tubes

- 22.1% wire

- 35% explosives


All of the above materials are needed to build tanks, fighter planes, guns and bombs - roughly 1/3 of the entire German War Machine - all of it bankrolled by not only an outward Nazi in Fritz Thyssen, but also the Bush Family as well.

Anyway, if you're not disgusted enough already, let's jump forward a few years. The war ends in 1945, and Fritz Thyssen subsequently dies in 1951. Upon his death, the remaining shareholders at UBC liquidated their stock (these were the same assets frozen by our government under the "U.S. Alien Property Custodian Act" in 1942 and not given back until 1951). And guess who one of the beneficiaries was. You got it - Prescott Bush! And how much money did he receive? 1.5 million. Coincidentally, Mr. Bush took these profits and instantly plunged them into starting his own business. Convenient, huh? Worse, Prescott Bush's cohorts (the same Wall Street backstabbers that financed Hitler) are also the same ones that (over time) made George Bush Sr. CIA Director in the 1970's and put him and his son into the White House! Now do you see why people like Dan Rather and the _New York Times_ never gave you this information?


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## NuclearWinter (May 23, 2006)

To confirm the above details, new information surfaced in 1996 that came from thirteen different sources: A) Dutch journalist Eddy Roever B) U.S. Freedom of Information Act S.S. files and C) Alien Property Custodian Archives,. To name a few. The information derived from these sources paints an even nastier picture of this situation. It seems that UBC in New York City was owned by the Thyssens. Thus, the Bush Family's primary banking facility was owned by, and their boss was, one of the most notorious behind-the-scenes Nazis of all-time! The big question at this point is, was Prescott Bush aware of his Nazi links and business dealings? Considering all the information brought out here, you could easily say that as DIRECTOR of UBC, it was HIS ultimate responsibility to oversee every investment, including who they were made to and where they went.

Another interesting note is that the Rockefeller Family also invested heavily in the Nazi War Machine. As it turns out, UBC was an essential element for the laundering of dirty money that was derived from the Rockefeller's investments in Germany during the War. This scenario becomes even more interesting when we find that the Rockefeller's bank - Chase Manhattan - wound up with 31% ownership of the Thyssen Group after World War 2.

This point is very important because TBC (the Thyssen Group) is the largest industry in Germany today, worth over $50 billion. They're so huge that they even bought out the Krupp Family, who were infamous weapons suppliers for the Nazis. In essence, they are one of the richest companies in the World, and where did their start-up money come from? The Nazis!


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## NuclearWinter (May 23, 2006)

What we have then are links to the three major secret trade organizations in the World. Prince Bernhard, who founded the Bilderbergs, enabled the Thyssen Family to launder their money through Holland while the Rockefellers bought nearly 1/3 of the controlling interests of Thyssen (David Rockefeller founded the Trilateral Commission). And finally, Brown Brothers Harriman and UBC, through which Nazi money was funneled into America, was largely formed by Yale's Skull & Bones members, all of whom were instrumental in forming the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). Do you see how these organizations are connected like the giant tentacles of an Evil octopus?

Finally, in regard to the Bush Family, you have read how the Bush Family fortune was mounted on the back of Nazi blood-money. Plus, you have also learned that the Bush Family has enjoyed business relations with the bin Laden Family for the past thirty years, and that both belonged to the Carlyle Group. Knowing this, what type of loyalties and decisions do you think George W. Bush will make for all of us citizens? Those that benefit everyday Americans? Or those made by his puppet-masters? 

If you ask me, I'd say we're in trouble.


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## dilloduck (May 23, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> What we have then are links to the three major secret trade organizations in the World. Prince Bernhard, who founded the Bilderbergs, enabled the Thyssen Family to launder their money through Holland while the Rockefellers bought nearly 1/3 of the controlling interests of Thyssen (David Rockefeller founded the Trilateral Commission). And finally, Brown Brothers Harriman and UBC, through which Nazi money was funneled into America, was largely formed by Yale's Skull & Bones members, all of whom were instrumental in forming the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). Do you see how these organizations are connected like the giant tentacles of an Evil octopus?
> 
> Finally, in regard to the Bush Family, you have read how the Bush Family fortune was mounted on the back of Nazi blood-money. Plus, you have also learned that the Bush Family has enjoyed business relations with the bin Laden Family for the past thirty years, and that both belonged to the Carlyle Group. Knowing this, what type of loyalties and decisions do you think George W. Bush will make for all of us citizens? Those that benefit everyday Americans? Or those made by his puppet-masters?
> 
> If you ask me, I'd say we're in trouble.




DUH--we all coulda told ya that.
Anyway I thought the controllers with no identities ran the show. That would make the trilateral commission and all these other "thugs" puppets.


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## shepherdboy (May 23, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I am going to list a mix of current information and psychic predictions for the World War that is supposed to occur within the next 3 years involving China, Libya, Syria, USA, Russia, and a few others.
> 
> All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics who have been tested over time and who have proven themselves time and time again.
> 
> ...



 CHRIST WINS!


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## NuclearWinter (May 24, 2006)

After the catastrophe of September 11, it was evident how many people in this country love and adored the United States of America. We hung flags, cried, rallied together and showed how much this nation meant to us. With this outpouring of support in mind, we should ask ourselves this question: Why are we allowing politicians, international bankers and corporate heads to slowly run this country into the ground? Why?

These monsters don't have respect for sovereignty, nationalism, or freedom. In fact, they have contempt for these concepts.

To prove this point, did you know that Bill Clinton, while still President in 1997, signed Bill # PDD60 that says that in case of a nuclear strike on the United States, we must absorb it and not retaliate or launch on warning?

This means that we're only allowed to return our nuclear warheads AFTER our enemy's missiles have already landed on our soil. Think about it. If we can't answer until their nukes hit us, where does that leave our warheads? Sitting in their silos! Instead of the silo's being empty (because the warheads have already been launched), they'll be sitting ducks -- ultimately destroyed because we haven't been given a chance to fight back.


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## NuclearWinter (May 24, 2006)

If the above scenario ever does take place, we're all screwed anyway, so what's it matter? Can you see what's happening? Isn't it obvious that there are forces at work within our own country....people who are calling the shots that aren't working in our best interest?

The United States is on it's way to it's final Doom. Don't think it can happen? Unless we do something about it very soon than thats exactly whats going to occur. What if one of the "Controllers" after declaring that the New World Order does indeed exist and that there's nothing we can do about it, then says that our Constitution and Bill of Rights have been declared null and void. Can't happen? Why not? What if right now we are being replaced as the World's preeminent superpower? Well guess what folks, thats the Controllers plans, and guess what country they want to have take our place......China.

Think of the assurances and rights that we've been given in this country. The same ones many of us take for granted on a daily basis. Also, consider what a truly remarkable "experiment" the United States has been. For the first time in modern history, people actually had the legal right to speak and act freely without being crushed by the heavy hand of an overlord. This is the first time in modern history that a large segment of the population has been able to enjoy the benefits of a middle-class lifestyle. Prior to the founding of this nation, there were primarily two classes -- the elite rulers or kings and the lowly serfs or slaves.

The lower classes were ultimately forced to spend the majority of their time simply trying to stay alive -- raising crops, finding food, maintaining their shelter and clothing their family. Now we actually have "leisure" time!

But we are now in the process of being knocked from our collective reality. And now we are slowly beginning the process of America's deliberate demise.


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## NuclearWinter (May 24, 2006)

To reinforce this point, take a look at the British Empire. Before we came along, they were the big boys, the "king of the hill". And I'll bet that if you had asked them during their reign if they thought that they were going to be replaced, they would have laughed at the absurdity of such a notion. They were the British Empire, for Pete's sake -- militarily, economically, and culturally superior to everyone! Right?

But guess what? A bigger fish came along -- the United States of America -- that held the potential to be economically developed, manipulated and exploited one-thousand times more than the British. So, what happened? The English were deliberately diminished and America was lifted up on the pedestal. Today, ask most Americans if we can be beaten militarily, economically, or financially. They'd laugh at such a notion. I mean, we're the American Empire!

Hey folks, listen closely. There's an even BIGGER fish in the ocean. And it's China. Consider how many more people and how much more land they have that can be developed, manipulated, and economically exploited. It's dizzying, and it's taking place right now.


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## NuclearWinter (May 24, 2006)

If anyone has ever seen video footage of China these days, than you can honestly say that in many places, if you didn't know better, you'd think that you were looking at America! Right now, China is being primed to assume control as the new "King of the Hill". And when you think about it, do the Controllers care? No! They hate concepts such as nationalism and sovereignty.

The Controllers are only concerned with maintaining and expanding their control and -- the bottom line -- profit margins. Right now, with the largest population in the World, China has the highest potential for future profits for the Controllers. It's scary, but true.

The truth is that there is a secretive plot fomented by the Controllers to deliberately undermine America while at the same time enabling China to become the next World Superpower.

Aided by parts of the Israeli Government, and especially the Mossad, Red Communist China is undoubtedly this nation's greatest threat - a plotting, inhuman beast ready to strike at us when we've been sufficiently weakened.


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## dilloduck (May 24, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> If anyone has ever seen video footage of China these days, than you can honestly say that in many places, if you didn't know better, you'd think that you were looking at America! Right now, China is being primed to assume control as the new "King of the Hill". And when you think about it, do the Controllers care? No! They hate concepts such as nationalism and sovereignty.
> 
> The Controllers are only concerned with maintaining and expanding their control and -- the bottom line -- profit margins. Right now, with the largest population in the World, China has the highest potential for future profits for the Controllers. It's scary, but true.
> 
> ...




LET'S STRING UP THE CONTROLLERS  (after we figure out who they are)


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## NuclearWinter (May 25, 2006)

In the starkest terms possible, our country is being set up to take a mighty fall, and when our economy and military are stretched to their thinnest points, there is a very high chance that Red China is planning to storm in and give us a royal ass-whipping. And if it turns out that we are beaten to a pulp and thoroughly defeated, China will reign supreme as the next Global "king of the hill".

The wheels are being set into motion to implement a massive shift in World power. The Controllers have their sights on China, viewing it as a huge untapped market waiting to be exploited.

If that happens and America has been knocked from its perch and loses its vaulted position atop the pyramid of control, try to imagine the resulting consequences. Our standard of living will drop, our influence around the World will plummet, and somebody else - an entire country with a Communist Government that views us with disdain -- will be the vehicle through which the Controllers will try and continue to pull their evil shenanigans.

In other words, all of the privileges we've come to enjoy will be stripped away from us and given to Red China.


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## NuclearWinter (May 25, 2006)

What will it take to propel us all into action before time runs out? The Controllers have already allowed for the leveling of the World Trade Centers, and look at what happened when they did. I don't want to minimize the effects of that atrocity, but believe me, that was only the first step.

The next time they decide to "bring us to our knees", we won't know what hit us. If 9-11 was a slap in the face, stage two of their evil plan will be a full-blown knockout punch. Then what are we going to do? There were people who experienced full-blown depression for at least three months after 9-11. How in the heck are they going to cope with an unleashed total assault on our collective consciousness? The effect will be debilitating, if not altogether crippling.

America, hidden forces are deliberately laying the groundwork to destroy this Great Nation. If we don't stop them soon, everything we've earned and come to enjoy will be lost!


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## dilloduck (May 25, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> What will it take to propel us all into action before time runs out? The Controllers have already allowed for the leveling of the World Trade Centers, and look at what happened when they did. I don't want to minimize the effects of that atrocity, but believe me, that was only the first step.
> 
> The next time they decide to "bring us to our knees", we won't know what hit us. If 9-11 was a slap in the face, stage two of their evil plan will be a full-blown knockout punch. Then what are we going to do? There were people who experienced full-blown depression for at least three months after 9-11. How in the heck are they going to cope with an unleashed total assault on our collective consciousness? The effect will be debilitating, if not altogether crippling.
> 
> America, hidden forces are deliberately laying the groundwork to destroy this Great Nation. If we don't stop them soon, everything we've earned and come to enjoy will be lost!


Assassinate the controllers before they can manipulate China into assaulting our collective consciousness !!!


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## NuclearWinter (May 26, 2006)

A figure who gained prominence in recent times -- Wen Ho lee -- has been accused of passing defense and nuclear secrets to the Chinese. The only problem was that all the charges were dropped by the U. S. District Court Judge James Parker. But it turned out that he was passing secrets to China of a different kind all-together.

Since Mr. Lee has been mentioned, the next natural step is to examine the Chinese government's relationship to America's military institutions.

If you didn't know this already, the CSIS (Chinese Secret Intelligence Service) DID penetrate our installation at Los Alamos, but not with Wen Ho Lee's help.

Instead, they joined forces with an intelligence agency of a different sort - Israel's Mossad! Yes, now we're getting into areas that are very touchy, and extremely dangerous. In fact, Bobby Ray Inman, former CIA head, described Israel as one of a half-dozen countries with a "Government-directed, orchestrated and clandestine effort to steal U.S. military and economic secrets."

Could this revelation be true? Portions of Israel, the country to which we annually give over $5 billion in foreign aid - our supposed ally - actually spying on us and trying to sabotage our nation? Well, it's true, and it gets much worse. To show this country's mindset, Meir Amit, former Director of the Mossad, was quoted in a CIA report on December 15, 1986 as saying, "Mossad should live by the credo 'Israel first, last and always."


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## NuclearWinter (May 26, 2006)

Well folks, strap on your seatbelts and get ready to hang on because Red China is NOT America's friend, and neither is certain factions of Israel. The Mossad and CSIS - the two most dangerous intelligence forces in the World - have teamed together. And here's what they have been up to.

Israel's CSIS was the first to obtain Los Alamos secrets. Then, in a move that is beyond repair, they shared this highly explosive information with Red China - America's greatest threat. As payment, Red China gave Israel their latest military secrets to keep them one step ahead of their Arab enemies in the Middle East.

Why? Because these factions of Israel are playing both ends against the middle. They have sided with the United States for decades because we were the "king of the hill". But now that they see China slated to replace us, they're switching their allegiance to them while sucking vast amounts of U.S. foreign aid out of us. Worse, the hidden Controllers are drawing us into an awful Middle-Eastern Israeli/Palestinian war that will Further enrage Arab and Muslim hatred for us, and weaken our military forces by spreading them even thinner (don't forget about India/Packistan, Afghanistan, ect.)

If this doesn't stop soon, it will lead us into an economic disaster, and the more money that we borrow to fuel our War Machine, the more money we will need to pay back in interest.


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## NuclearWinter (May 26, 2006)

If any of you think for a second that all of Israel is our friend, you're seriously deceiving yourself. There are organizations in Israel who care about one thing; and one thing only - ISRAEL! Think about it: would an ally hire Jonathan Pollard, a civilian senior anyalyst at our top-secret Navy Field Operational Intelligence Office in Suitland, Maryland to steal our intelligence reports?

As Gordon Thomas wrote in _Seeds of Fire_: "In the time he had spied for Israel, Pollard read and copied and transmitted every worthwhile secret the United States possessed." Keep this sentence in mind, for it reiterates what the CIA's George Tenet said: "Pollard stole every worthwhile intelligence secret that we have." Think about this for a moment. The Mossad possesses ALL of our secrets, and they've recently joined forces with the CSIS and are exchanging information with them.

Some of the keys to the future of mankind at both Los Alamos and S-4 (Area 51) are now in the hands of our most dire enemy - Red China!

How did things get this bad? It all started with a software program created by William Hamilton called Promis (Prosecutors Management Information Systems) that was designed to share information between various databases, and to also track information from other databases by tapping into them. 

Hamilton explained to the Department of Justice, "Enhanced Promis has the ability to track every citizen in the United States by accessing their personal data files. The barest details of their lives would be sufficient: a birth certificate, marriage license, driver's license, or employment record."


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## NuclearWinter (May 30, 2006)

Promis was obviously a powerful piece of software with the potential to be so all-encompasing and octopus-like in its reach that Deputy Attorney General Lowell Jensen labeled it "one of the greatest discoveries of this century."

Realizing its benefit as an intelligence tool, the LAKAM, operating out of Israel's Ministry of Defense and even more secretive than the Mossad, sent the most notorious spy in the World - Rafi Eitan - to steal it. Eitan (who was the principle figure in setting up the Irangate arms-for-hostages deal) "obtained" a copy of the Enhanced Promis software; then presented it to LAKAM programmers, who deconstructed it. The software was then sold to secret service agencies, terrorists, and financial centers all over the World.

There's only one catch to this story: granted that such an undertaking was not only blatantly ILLEGAL on Israel's part, but it was also a betrayal against the U.S. In no uncertain terms, these Israeli programmers also pulled one final trick. After ripping the Enhanced Promis software apart, they installed a "trap door" before putting it back together again that would allow them to have ANY information on the host system that was using it.

Do you know what this means? Say, for instance, this software was installed into YOUR computer. Because of the back door that nobody knew about when they illegally bought it, these Israeli ogranizations could see EVERY FILE on your computer. Every one! Som when the Insraeli's began selling the stolen software to the black market, one would wonder why they'd lay such a golden egg into the laps of their enemies. But with the trap door, it becomes evident. They could spy on everything that their adversaries were doing! And to whom were they selling it? To name a few: the IRA, England's M15, the Russian Mafia, the Jordanian government, Switzerland's Credit Suisse Bank (with a wealth of financial data), the Soviet Union's military intelligence, Germany's secret service (BND), and last but not least, the Chinese Government, which was intent on breaking into our labs at Los Alamos and unearthing all of our military secrets.


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## NuclearWinter (May 30, 2006)

Also on their agenda was Sandia Labs, where we arm our nuclear subs.

Once again, certain organizations in China and Israel are in cahoots with eachother to undermine the United States of America.

The man who sold the doctored Enhanced Promis software to China's secret service was none other than publishing tycoon Robert Maxwell. He was so instrumental in selling this program to spy agencies all around the World before he got "knocked off" for talking too much and not being able to meet his financial obligations. (Do you remember him drowning after "falling off" his boat a few years ago? The Controllers have a way of eliminating those who become a problem.)

Understanding Israel's role in supplying this stolen, doctored, illegal software to shady organizations all over the World (that THEY and only they benefited from) is crucial. A ruling by the U.S. Congress Judiciary Committee declared in no uncertain terms, "A foreign power - the State of Israel - has been engaged in _active espionage_ against the United States by the illegal use of Enhanced Promis software."

What makes this matter even more appalling is the fact that the powers-that-be in America knew that the Trojan Horse was installed in the back of this software that was sold to spies, criminals, and Governments across the World. This invariably leads back to the Israeli secret service and our nation's silence where we made no attempts to prosecute or expose them.


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## NuclearWinter (May 30, 2006)

It's truly sickening. John Cohen of the House Judiciary Committee summed it up when he said, "There is putrid stench that reaches across party lines in Washington and involves cover-ups by various administrations and foreign Governments, specifically Israel's. Though tens of millions of dollars have been spent investigating the "Inslaw Affair", they have all failed for one reason only. Very powerful people do not wish the truth to get out."

Sean McDade of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, who performed one of the most extensive investigations into this sordid affair, said of the Inslaw Scandal in a memo to his superiors in 2000, "If made public, more than one U.S. Presidential administration will be exposed because of their knowledge and complicity." He then went on to indict the Israeli Mossad. "The Israeli Mossad modified the original stolen software by Rafi Eitan, which was the "first back door". Later it became a "two-way back door", allowing the Israeli's access to top U.S. weapons secrets at Los Alamos and other classified installations in the U.S. The Israelis now possess all the nuclear secrets of the U.S. Compared to this espionage coup, it can be categorically stated that the Jonathan Pollard case is insignificant."


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## dilloduck (May 30, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Well folks, strap on your seatbelts and get ready to hang on because Red China is NOT America's friend, and neither is certain factions of Israel. The Mossad and CSIS - the two most dangerous intelligence forces in the World - have teamed together. And here's what they have been up to.
> 
> Israel's CSIS was the first to obtain Los Alamos secrets. Then, in a move that is beyond repair, they shared this highly explosive information with Red China - America's greatest threat. As payment, Red China gave Israel their latest military secrets to keep them one step ahead of their Arab enemies in the Middle East.
> 
> ...



It can't stop soon remember ?  the controllers !!


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## NuclearWinter (May 31, 2006)

These are all credible, reliable  sources speaking about Israeli espionage that was so severe that it made the Jonathan Pollard case pale in comparison. Yes, the Mossad has teamed up with China to remove our military secrets, all of which are now floating around in a cyber-world of doctored software, back doors, and misguided alliances. And now our greatest enemy, Red China, is in the driver's seat due to the Israeli Mossad's complicity.

At this point we should take a look at the Red China and see why we should be so suspicious of them. Yeah, this isn't a nation of nice guys.

Instead, they're the ones who sold Iraq the ingredients that would be necessary to develop a hydrogen bomb, specifically large quantities of lithium 6 hydride. But that's not all. They've also been dealing arms to the Middle Eastern countries for years, and in 1990 alone they sold over $300 million worth of military hardware to Syria, Iran, and Iraq. Premier Li Peng even referred to his native China as "the new friends of the Arabs."

During the Reagan administration, China sold the Saudis missiles with a 200-mile range, plus brokered Silkworm missiles with poison gas warheads to both Iran and Iraq. If you have ever wondered where these countries have been getting their explosives and weaponry, a good place to start looking (apart from the United States) is Russia and the People's Republic of China.


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## NuclearWinter (May 31, 2006)

But an even better indicator of what type of people rule Red China can be found in the ruthlessly brutal Tiananmen Massacre in 1989. If you can remember that fateful event, the students in question only wanted two things - freedom and democratic rule. What did they receive for their efforts? A bloody massacre. When the Red Chinese military retaliated, there were 4,000 deaths and 6,500 people wounded on the very first day alone.

How did the American Controller-brainwashed politicians and business leaders react to this atrocious massacre; and all of Red China's other appalling Human rights violations? Well, they gave them MOST FAVORED NATION trading status and started funneling billions of dollars into their economy! Doesn't this reaction seem odd to you, even downright WRONG, especially from a country that supposedly places such a high emphasis on concepts such as quality and rights?

There's only one problem though; which is that the Controllers who manipulate our leaders like George Bush, Sr., Bill Clinton and now Bush Jr., don't give a damn about justice or righteousness. Nah, their only concerns are power, money, and a side dish of war as an appetizer.


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## NuclearWinter (May 31, 2006)

To the Controllers, Red China isn't a barbaric society with zero regard for individual citizens. Instead, they view it as a huge untapped economic market waiting to be exploited. In fact, during the last decade, Controller-operated companies and Governments have invested untold mega-billions into China. Dow Chemicals pumped $56 million into a processing plant, while AT&T laid out an entire communications system for them. 

The primary devil spearheading this traitorous operation is none other than Bilderberg/CFR luminary Henry Kissinger, who has pumped billions of dollars into the Chinese economy via his company, Kissinger Associates.

Gordon Thomas says of him, "More than any other American, he has been responsible for promoting U.S. investments in China." Kissinger even created the highly valued lauded American-China Society with former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance. And guess who was on the Board of Directors of this "association" over the years: Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon, National Security Advisors McGeorge Bundy, Robert McFarlane, Zigbniew Brzezinski: and former Secretary's of State Dean Rusk, Edward Muskie, Alexander Haig, and William Rogers.


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## dilloduck (May 31, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> To the Controllers, Red China isn't a barbaric society with zero regard for individual citizens. Instead, they view it as a huge untapped economic market waiting to be exploited. In fact, during the last decade, Controller-operated companies and Governments have invested untold mega-billions into China. Dow Chemicals pumped $56 million into a processing plant, while AT&T laid out an entire communications system for them.
> 
> The primary devil spearheading this traitorous operation is none other than Bilderberg/CFR luminary Henry Kissinger, who has pumped billions of dollars into the Chinese economy via his company, Kissinger Associates.
> 
> Gordon Thomas says of him, "More than any other American, he has been responsible for promoting U.S. investments in China." Kissinger even created the highly valued lauded American-China Society with former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance. And guess who was on the Board of Directors of this "association" over the years: Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon, National Security Advisors McGeorge Bundy, Robert McFarlane, Zigbniew Brzezinski: and former Secretary's of State Dean Rusk, Edward Muskie, Alexander Haig, and William Rogers.



I thought we didnt' know who the "controllers" were.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 1, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I thought we didnt' know who the "controllers" were.



Correction my friend. I said we didn't know the name of "THE TOP 3" Controllers. There is a difference.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 1, 2006)

Kissinger Associates influences their clients to invest in China. There was David Rockefeller's Chase Manhattan that plunked-down $270 million for a nuclear power plant at Daya Bay, which was subsequently used to make nuclear weapons. Or how about American Express that fronted $138 million for a Beijing office complex, or Atlantic Richfield who laid $170 million for a natural gas field.  These companies are "helping" a Government that steals our military secrets and kills anyone who dares speak out against them.

One of the most grating aspects of this scenario is our continuing lack of resolve in the face of Red China standing diametrically opposed to what America is supposed to represent. But instead of completely banishing them economically, it's business as usual, with American companies continuing to pour more money into their coffers.

An act that personified our intentions toward China was the slaughter at Tiananmen Square. Here's what happened. George Bush, Sr. was getting ready to invade Iraq, but he wanted full support in the United Nations. The only problem - China was hesitant to give their nod of approval unless they got something in return. So, if the United States took a hard line and denounced the brutal murders that took place at Tiananmen Square, the Chinese would not vote in favor of our Iraqi invasion in the U.N.

In other words, President Bush Sr. sold out in the most abhorrent way possible. China outwardly spit on freedom and any hint of democracy; then we turned around and gave them Most Favored Nation status and the assurance of loans through the World Bank. We then also ended all trade restrictions with China, and allowed them to enter the World Trade Organization, and welcomed them as a member of GATT.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 1, 2006)

But the Globalist controlled love-fest didn't end there. China forwarded to the U.S. information on their military sales to Iraq that our NSA satellites couldn't locate. By January, 1991, the Pentagon had the exact location of every Silkworm missile site in Iraq, plus all of their other weaponry. In addition, we also knew where the lithium 6 deuteride used for making hydrogen bombs was stored (which, by the way, was sold to Iraq by China from a nuclear power plant in Inner Mongolia). 

But wait - there's more! When the Chinese Government was going to stage "trials" for the students that they hadn't already slain (a total mockery of justice), they didn't want the U.S. to give them any problems over the penalties they doled out (many of which were death sentences). So, the Bush Administration kept quiet like good little lap dogs while the "rabble-rousers" were unmercifully eliminated. Like the old Chinese saying goes, "kill one, educate one hundred."


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 1, 2006)

Since that time, over a decade ago, what has transpired? Well, we've helped Red China improve their satellites and given them the know-how to upgrade their missile guidance systems. We've also given them advanced aviation data for their jets and fighter planes. Who do you think was behind the scenes acting as the conduit for these deals? At the time, Joseph Brewer, a Washington analyst, said, "Bush's implicit message to U.S. companies with a total of many billions of dollars invested in China was clear. Despite the massacres, they should regard the situation very much as business as usual. The apologists of Kissinger Associates could not have expressed their positions more clearly than had the President."

Reinforcing this opinion, the _Wall Street Journal_ reported in September, 1989, three months after the Tiananmen slaughter, "Kissinger Associates could be on the verge of earning hundreds of thousands from a limited partnership set up to engage in joint dealings with CITIC (a merchandise and banking arm of the Chinese Government)."

Three primary individuals took the necessary steps to assure that China got re-certified with Most Favored Nation trading status. They were Henry Kissinger, Alexander Haig, and Prescott Bush. Haig remained a player as chairman of Worldwide Associates, Inc., a consulting firm with ties to whom? You guessed it - Kissinger Associates! Through these wheelings-and-dealings, he set up an array of joint ventures with the CITIC, thus keeping the machine rolling. Prescott Bush, on the other hand, was a consultant for Asset Management International Financing and Settlement, Ltd., where he raised $60 million to invest in joint Chinese-U.S. projects.


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## Said1 (Jun 1, 2006)

Hey, NW. It's about time you showed up and posted some of your sanity.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 2, 2006)

However, don't focus so exclusively on George Bush Sr. and his crony James Baker. No, this traitorous behavior stretches across party lines and successive administrations. Remember, the Controller's don't care about Republicans or Democrats; they merely use them as vehicles to accomplish their goals. Bill Clinton was guilty beyond words of bending over backwards to facilitate China. Jimmy Carter (after leaving office) visited the Mainland and suggested that China receive MFN status, which puts tariffs on imports into that country at the lowest possible rate.

Even today, the George Bush Jr. administration is packed with devils doing the Controllers' bidding. Look at the former consultants for Kissinger Associates that have served in the Bush cabinet or on the periphery. First of all, there's Brent Scowcroft, who became National Security Advisor, and who was formerly the Kissinger Associates Washington office director. Or how about Lawrence Eagleburger in the State Department? Insiders say he's more familiar with the financial interactions between China and America than anyone.

Finally, James Baker still pops his head up once in awhile, shaping foreign policy behind the scenes on orders from George Bush, Sr., who no doubt is in direct contact with the Controllers. And if you don't think these individuals play a significant role in determining our foreign policy, check out the December, 2000 CIA report that says that George W. Bush is "at best inexperienced in global matters." AT BEST INEXPERIENCED! Do you think the Controllers, with so much at stake, are going to let George W. mess things up for them? Hardly.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 2, 2006)

Next we should really take a look at a document released awhile back entitled, "Global Trends 2015". Here are a few of the CIA's very startling predictions:

*1.* China's economic growth will be greater than that of all of Europe by the year 2010, while Russia's will only be 1/5th of the United States.

*2.* China will incite a full-scale trade war by 2010.

*3.* China will promote various terrorist groups to align and atack the U.S.

*4.* By 2015, the U.S. will surrender its role as World policeman.

*5.* By 2015, a MAJOR WAR will break out between the U.S. and China!

*6.* Finally, a direct quote from the CIA's "Global Trends 2015" report: "China, as it becomes increasingly the NEW SUPERPOWER of the Third Millennium, is likely to provide biological and chemical weapons and "suitcase" nuclear devices to wage terror against the United States."

That was a CIA report people! And you know how corrupt our CIA can be, so for them to come out blatantly with predictions like those must mean that they know what the Controllers have in store for us.

Now, I don't buy too much stock into the dating of their predictions, because as you can see from the title of this thread I really do believe that our war with China is coming very soon, and that it will happen alot sooner than 2015, and in fact from what I have studied I truly believe that it's coming within the next 3 years or so. Before 2012. But regardless of the dates, the fact remains simple, which is that China is slated to take us on for control of the World's marketplace and will undoubtedly end up in battle with our country over who gets to be the dominant nation of the World.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 2, 2006)

And yet all of the "devils" from Kissinger Associates, the Bilderbergs, the CFR and the Trilateral Commission keep telling our Government to pump software, hardware, weaponry, computers, and advanced technology into their country. What's going on? We need to wake up quickly or the hammer is going to drop.

What China is doing with the technology we're laying at their doorstep is also very telling in determining what type of society they plan to create. The answer would make George Orwell shudder in his grave. Yes, Big Brother has become such an integral part of China's long-term planning that Gordon Thomas writes, "By the year 2001, technology had become like drug addiction in China."

Here is what the Chinese are currently doing, and intend to do in the future:

*** Long before 2010, they would like every street in China to be equipped with closed-circuit television.

*** They plan to experiment with the attachment of microchips to the Human brain. Once in place, the authorities could use a device that would read a person's mind and relay the information to a computer. As I'm sure you can imagine; this invasion into the deepest realms of our thought process would be the ultimate surveillance weapon!

*** They want to Develop a new radar system that could locate any American stealth fighter plane that we have.

*** Privacy International, a London based Human rights group, has reported that any foreigner going to China will be entered into at least 300 different databases, all of which will be interconnected. The traveler's every move will then be detailed - e-mails, laptop activity, room service, financial transactions, phone calls, ect. - everything monitored.

*** They plan to install hundreds of thousands of cameras on buses, trains, and elevators.

*** Residents will essentially be filmed all day long from the time they leave their home. All public buildings, roads, and apartment complexes will also be staked-out with cameras, and new housing projects will eventually have "seeing-eyes" in every room!

*** The Red Chinese Government's ultimate goal is to monitor people every second of the day from birth to death; much of this activity arising from technology will either be purchased or stolen from the United States.

Gordon Thomas says, "In China, surveillance is an integral part of pacification, intimidation, obfuscation, propaganda and control. In its most pernicious form, surveillance is used for behavior modification, including adverse conditioning.


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## dilloduck (Jun 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Next we should really take a look at a document released awhile back entitled, "Global Trends 2015". Here are a few of the CIA's very startling predictions:
> 
> *1.* China's economic growth will be greater than that of all of Europe by the year 2010, while Russia's will only be 1/5th of the United States.
> 
> ...



It would be nice if you ever stayed and chatted. Thanks for calling him Said! 
 (btw I call foul--this was only supposed to go up to 2012 and you went to 2015)


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 3, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> It would be nice if you ever stayed and chatted. Thanks for calling him Said!
> (btw I call foul--this was only supposed to go up to 2012 and you went to 2015)



You don't understand Dillo.

That was the CIA REPORT which said it would happen by 2015.

My personal feelings, AS I STATED IN THE SAME POST THAT YOU QUOTED....was that I feel that it will happen way before then. Anywhere between 2006-2009.




			
				NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Now, I don't buy too much stock into the dating of their predictions, because as you can see from the title of this thread I really do believe that our war with China is coming very soon, and that it will happen alot sooner than 2015, and in fact from what I have studied I truly believe that it's coming within the next 3 years or so. Before 2012. But regardless of the dates, the fact remains simple, which is that China is slated to take us on for control of the World's marketplace and will undoubtedly end up in battle with our country over who gets to be the dominant nation of the World.




lol. If people want a really good laugh than all they would have to do is read your last post where you had that quote posted along with it.

Forgive me...but does my quote not state in plain words.....I really do believe that our war with China is coming very soon, and that it will happen alot sooner than 2015, and in fact from what I have studied I truly believe that it's coming within the next 3 years or so. Before 2012.

Ummmm....were you not wearing your glasses or something when you posted that?


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 3, 2006)

Not only is Red Chinese Intelligence obsessed with "obtaining" America's deepest technological, defense, and computer secrets, but they were also responsible for helping Saddam Hussein upgrade his defense network. China is also among the top two purchasers of Russian arms, and reached a peak of $2.7 billion in weapons sales in 1999 (with the volatile country of Pakistan, which was a few years ago on the brink of nuclear war with India, being its primary buyer). Their role is so troublesome that the _New York Times_, on August 20, 2001, quoted the "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations 1993-2000" report published by the Congressional Research Service, saying: "China can present an important obstacle to the developing World where political and military tensions are significant."

But the aspect of Chinese society is the difference in outlook between the Red Chinese Government and the Americans. The Red Chinese "Machine" does not care about truth or public opinion, but are much better and more comfortable with censorship and propaganda. Nor do they cater to or create media hysteria when an event takes place. Instead, they simply stand back and observe, then take notes and wait.

Waiting is the key; then at the right moment, they lunge forward and they strike.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 3, 2006)

At the core of the Red Chinese Machine - its intelligence, its propaganda - its military leaders, its politicians - is one belief: it despises America's fear of casualties.

From their perspective, every time America enters a war (from Korea and Vietnam to Afghanistan) or needs to "remedy a situation", they always worry about public opinion and body counts. But the Red Chinese don't place such an emphasis on Human life. Rather, they teach their soldiers that although America has an array of sophisticated weaponry, they're _afraid of death_!

According to them, we can be beaten in war because we are soft. That's why the Red Chinese Government admires the Israeli Government and Military. The Israeli Government, in their view, holds this same lack of regard for death. The "individual" does not hold as much importance as does the society or nation.

Thus, Red China and Israel's Government are linked once again, which brings us to the infamous downing of an American spy plane in May, 2001. When this event took place and was plastered across the daily newspaper, guess who the Red Chinese invited and promised full-access to inspect the plane and its sophisticated secrets? A team of Israeli technicians was secretly flown to Hainan Island where the plane was disabled.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 3, 2006)

Do you see a pattern evolving? But Chinese subterfuge towards the U.S. doesn't end there. On the day of 9-11, the day America was horrendously attacked - guess what the Chinese were doing? One of their PLA (People's Liberation Army) planes landed at Kabul, Afghanistan, and on board were a team of defense contractors, secret service members and some senior Army officers.

This was on September 11, 2001! And why did they arrive there? To sign contracts giving the Taliban state-of-the-art electronics defense equipment, plus advocating warning and missile tracking systems that helped bring these terrorists into the modern age. Does this action sound like one carried out by a trusted ally of the United States? Hell no, especially on THE DAY we were viciously attacked. Up until then, the Taliban was nothing but a rag-tag operation with a total of 150 tanks, 15 helicopters, 20 bombers, and a few old Russian Kalashnikov rifles. That was it.

But lo and behold, China updated them! So the Taliban received military equipment in return for a promise that the Muslim fundamentalists would not attack their mainland.


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## dilloduck (Jun 3, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> You don't understand Dillo.
> 
> That was the CIA REPORT which said it would happen by 2015.
> 
> ...



I was really just curious to see if you even pay attention.


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## rtwngAvngr (Jun 3, 2006)

2012 is supposed to be the start of a new "time cycle" or something according to like Mayan new agey stuff or something.


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## dilloduck (Jun 3, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> 2012 is supposed to be the start of a new "time cycle" or something according to like Mayan new agey stuff or something.




It's hard to keep track of all this stuff that's supposed to happen.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 4, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> It's hard to keep track of all this stuff that's supposed to happen.



Well this is the BIG ONE brother. 2012 is NO JOKE. We aren't talking about the 2000 millenium computer virus or some "end of the World in 2000" fantasy land made up by the church, or some stupid thing like that. We're talking about something thats been prophesized all over the World for thousands of years in just about every corner of the Globe.

The Golden Age of the Messiah. 

I'll be posting more on that later though if anyone is interested in reading more about it. But for now...it's back to the Controllers and their "New World Order" Agenda that they are so close to finally creating for us all.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 4, 2006)

It's also important to note that Osama bin Laden made several trips to China in the years preceding 9-11.

Also, how can we forget about Bill Clinton? Bill Clinton is right up there when it comes to aiding and abetting the Red Chinese. Here are a few quotes:


*General Accounting Office - (June 19, 1998):* 

"President Clinton issued wavers on military items valued at $36.3 million and licensing of commercial military exports worth $313 million." 


*Jeff Garth - New York Times (October 19, 1998) on how nearly $2 billion in annual trade has been removed from federal scrutiny:* 

"The Pentagon was traditionally the strongest voice against technology exports, and Clinton made several appointments calculated to change the culture. The former president said at that time, "One reason I ran for President was to tailor export controls to the realization of a post-cold war World."


*The Cox Report:*

The thrust of this report revolves around how the Clinton administration helped China get more technology and conveniently paved the way for them to steal and engage in espionage against this country. As Oklahoma Senator James M. Inhofe notes, "As the Cox report points out, nuclear espionage by China is only one part of the problem. China's efforts to acquire U.S. military-related technology is pervasive. Operating through a maze of Government and quasi-Government entities and front companies, China has established a technology-gathering network of IMMENSE PROPORTIONS. They are willing and able to trade, bribe, buy or steal to get U.S. advanced technology - all for the purpose of enhancing their long-term military potential. Their success is often determined largely by our willingness to make it easier for them to get what they want."


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 4, 2006)

*The following items come from "The Hansen Case: A Trifle Compared to Clinton-China Connection" written by Sam Smith for Newsmax.com on February 22, 2001:*

Commerce Secretary Ron Brown: Allowed American-made engines to be sold to China to put into their cruise missiles. The only problem is - this was strictly military equipment; but that didn't matter. Brown got around this little "snag" by reclassifying all the engines as "civilian".

New York Times - Clinton took over $2 billion worth of items that we exported to China off the list of things that could come under inspection by our National Security forces. This included nearly 80 supercomputers that could unscramble classified data and also design nuclear weapons. Many of these items were ultimately used by China's military, yet the Clinton administration refused to allow a peep of scrutiny here in the U.S.

President Clinton: Signed National Security waivers to let four U.S. commercial satellites to be set into orbit by the Red Chinese even though China knowingly was exporting nuclear and missile technology to Iran, Pakistan, and other terrorist countries.

Conclusion to "The Hansen Case" (VERY IMPORTANT): "The brunt of the evidence was that the Red Chinese Government had obtained more American military secrets over the past two decades than had all of the previous spies in American history put together! They had basic information on all nuclear weapons systems, they got our most advanced supercomputers, and they gained extraordinarily important information about satellite systems. Some of this knowledge they used for themselves, some they retrofitted and repackaged and sold to other countries like Iraq, where it is used against _our own fighter planes_."

Smith continues, "While the problem occured under both Republican and Democratic administrations, it got completely out of hand under Clinton....a stunning proportion was obtained either as a direct result of political and economic decisions by the Clinton Administration or as a result of what best be described as premeditated indifference."


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 4, 2006)

Can you see what's going on? The Bush administration, plus Clinton's dog-and-pony show are mere puppets; facilitators who implement decisions from above to prepare China for their showdown with the United States. This is scary stuff, folks, and you may be wondering, when are they going to strike? The answer is simple - whenever they're ready. And what do they need to get them ready? More and better U.S. technology! Isn't it obvious? We're the ones who are allowing the Controllers to dig our own graves! And while all this occurs, Red China waits silently (for the most part), as the "ultimate perpetrator" as Gordon Thomas calls it, holding America in contempt for one thing - for being TOO SOFT!

And do you know what? If we keep allowing this atrocity to take place, then China is right - we ARE too soft because we're not doing anything to stop these preparations for our own demise. It's like our next door neighbors pointing guns, cannons, bazookas, missiles and bombs at our houses; and we just sit there watching it happen, wondering, "I wonder if they're going to attack us?"

Well we're damn right they're going to lay siege upon us, and if something isn't done to stop it, who is ultimately to blame? We are, for letting it all happen.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 5, 2006)

So after all I have posted so far, which country do you guys think will man the helm if the Controllers are successful in getting us all to fall for their World War and if they are successful in their attempts for America to lose it? Who do you think is going to be the recipent of the "Controllers" good graces to lead our World into the 21st century? One word. China.

 If history repeats itself and is any indicator, we need to learn a few lessons about nations on the rise and their behavior. Samuel Huntington encapsulates in the following quote what all Americans should be wary of. "Every other major power, Britain and France, Germany and Japan, and the U.S. and the Soviet Union, has engaged in outward expansion, assertion, and imperialism coincidental with or immediately following the years in which it went through rapid industrialization and economic growth. No reason exists to think that the acquisition of economic and military power will not have comparable effects in China."

Here it is folks - Red China - America's greatest threat - A Confucian civilization that has never known freedom in the entirety of its history - a culture that advocates yielding to authority, a structured hierarchy, surrender of individual rights, consensus, meekness, and the State over personal freedom. This is a country that flaunts absolute power and frowns upon checks and balances while telling its people to bow in subservience. This is a civilization so diametrically opposed to our own that you can almost liken them to something alien. Red China possesses, quite literally, everything that the New World Order crowd craves - a conditioned, freedom-less populace and an iron-fisted, tyrannical Government.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 5, 2006)

If anyone thinks that the above characterization is inaccurate or too strong, simply hearken back to what happened at the Tiananmen Square student uprising again. The Chinese Military swooped down and killed with a vengeance, and those protestors not eliminated on the spot were executed shortly thereafter without a trial. These are vicious, bloodthirsty leaders that won't bat an eye at further enslaving their people. 

Here is the perfectly docile, unquestioning automaton citizenry portrayed in George Orwell's _1984_, yet with an obedient army of millions and plenty of newfound Western technology. Forget about Afghanistan and Iraq. They're only precursors being used to prime the pump. Then, when we're sufficiently weakened, BAM, the Chinese could come in and lay us out and land the final death blow! If this description is still not enough, ask yourself this question: would your life be freer under Red Chinese rule? The answer is obvious. If the Chinese leaders haven't respected freedom of speech or individual rights for the last few thousand years, what makes you think that they'll start now? 

The primary reason why China has become such a force to be reckoned with is because the Controllers have been inundating them with enormous amounts of Western technology for the past decade from both the private and public sectors. This includes computer hardware and software, satellites, military technology and weaponry, and the means of advanced production for their factories. The growth of their gross domestic product has more than doubled in twenty years from 6% in 1972 to 13.5 in 1993, and as Kishore Mahbubani wrote in the CFR's _Foreign Affairs_ January-February edition, "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 5, 2006)

With the second and third largest economies in the World in the 1990's, Asia is likely to have four of the five largest and seven of the ten largest economies by 2020. If everything remains the same, then by that date Asian societies are likely to account for over 40% of the global economic product.

Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim told the _International Herald Tribune_ on January 31, 1994 that, "Asia's increasing prosperity means that it is now in a position to offer serious alternatives to the dominant global, political, social, and economic arrangements."

These words are coming from political leaders and CFR members that the global elite listen to intently. And what they are saying is that Asian civilizations are primed to assume a leadership role on the World stage, replacing us as king of the hill. And folks, the writing is on the wall. This is going to happen if things do not change. And why? Because the New World Planners have funded and provided for Red China's economic independence so that they can expand their influence, maximize profits, and capitalize on cheap, docile Asian labor. Not only does this phenomenon strengthen the Pacific Rim, but it also weakens our manufacturing base in the United States at the same time. It is actually cheaper for companies in this country to import steel manufactured in China and to ship it across the ocean than it is for them to produce it domestically! There is something seriously wrong with that equation, and the result is that our economy falters while Red China becomes more self-reliant and primed to move forward.


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## dilloduck (Jun 5, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> With the second and third largest economies in the World in the 1990's, Asia is likely to have four of the five largest and seven of the ten largest economies by 2020. If everything remains the same, then by that date Asian societies are likely to account for over 40% of the global economic product.
> 
> Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim told the _International Herald Tribune_ on January 31, 1994 that, "Asia's increasing prosperity means that it is now in a position to offer serious alternatives to the dominant global, political, social, and economic arrangements."
> 
> These words are coming from political leaders and CFR members that the global elite listen to intently. And what they are saying is that Asian civilizations are primed to assume a leadership role on the World stage, replacing us as king of the hill. And folks, the writing is on the wall. This is going to happen if things do not change. And why? Because the New World Planners have funded and provided for Red China's economic independence so that they can expand their influence, maximize profits, and capitalize on cheap, docile Asian labor. Not only does this phenomenon strengthen the Pacific Rim, but it also weakens our manufacturing base in the United States at the same time. It is actually cheaper for companies in this country to import steel manufactured in China and to ship it across the ocean than it is for them to produce it domestically! There is something seriously wrong with that equation, and the result is that our economy falters while Red China becomes more self-reliant and primed to move forward.



Dude--I caught 2 controllers and locked em in the basement. Problem is, I don't know who I can trust to interrogate them.
                                                         Awaiting further instructions,


                                                        olliD   (ssssh  it's code)


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 8, 2006)

One thing that is very important for people to understand is that East Asian economic development is altering the balance of power between Asia and the West, specifically the United States.

The most immediate danger of this situation is obvious: the stronger and more independent China and the Orient becomes, the less we will be able to stop them from their negative activities. Plus, their increasing energy demands will have to be met one way or the other. This dilemma opens up the possibility of a truly horrifying scenario which should really be addressed.

China's increasing needs for oil are likely to impel it to expand it's relations with Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia as well as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. Such an arms-for-oil axis won't have to take orders from London, Paris, or Washington anymore.

As China and it's Asian counterparts are moved to the forefront by the Controllers, we need to examine how these changes will affect America. The most profound explanation comes from a man named Samuel P. Huntington, who says in the starkest terms possible, "China's emergence as a major power will dwarf any comparable phenomena during the last half of the second millennium." Lee Kuan Yew, Singapore's first Prime Minister, also said that, "It's not possible to pretend that this is just another big player. This is the biggest player in the history of man!"


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 8, 2006)

Is the importance of this upcoming change starting to hit you guys yet? The Controllers want to run this World through China, and they're setting the stage with non-Western arms proliferation in North Korea, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, India, and China. Once the Red Army officially takes control of the Asian theater, things will only get worse. And others with hostile feelings towards the U.S. will side with them! 

Samuel Huntington once said that, "In politics a common enemy creates a common interest, Islamic and Sinic (Chinese) societies which see the West as their antagonist thus have reason to cooperate with each other against the West."

Nearly half of the World's military manpower will belong to the Chinese and Muslims soon and all of you guys will eventually be forced to realize the magnitude of what we'll all be up against. It is truly horrifying. To make matters worse, take a look at the following two quotes by Samuel Huntington to determine how the Red Chinese Government feels about us:


"The most important group in China with an antagonistic view towards the U.S. is the military."

"By the mid-1990's Chinese officials and agencies routinely portrayed the U.S. as a hostile power."


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 8, 2006)

Please remember that these opinions are coming from a _New York Times_ best-selling author and one of the New World Order's most lauded academics. 

You can read more about what Samuel Huntington has to say on the China subject as well as the New World Order and the class of civilizations at http://www.pbs.org/newshour/gergen/january97/order_1-10.html.

That is a link to an interview that he gave for U.S. News & World Report. it is very interesting and I recommend that everyone who is worried about Red China's growth should read it in order to gain a better perspective.


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## Abbey Normal (Jun 8, 2006)

Dear NuclearWinter: 

We all have to go sometime. 

Sincerely,
Abbey


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## dilloduck (Jun 8, 2006)

I slept through a lot of this.

Can I copy someones' notes and do we have any homework?


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## Abbey Normal (Jun 8, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> I slept through a lot of this.
> 
> Can I copy someones' notes and do we have any homework?



Come on over- we'll study together and then go out for a beer.


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## dilloduck (Jun 8, 2006)

Abbey Normal said:
			
		

> Come on over- we'll study together and then go out for a beer.



We gotta stay away from Chinese joints I guess ?  :teeth:


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## Abbey Normal (Jun 8, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> We gotta stay away from Chinese joints I guess ?  :teeth:



Damn. I love Chinese food. 

Is Thai ok?


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## sitarro (Jun 9, 2006)

Abbey Normal said:
			
		

> Damn. I love Chinese food.
> 
> Is Thai ok?



Hey Abbey,

What is your favorite Entree'.......I like the Sweet and Sour Rottle(a hybrid of a Standard Poodle and Rottweiler). The flanks are marinated in a soy/hot chili oil marinade for 9 years then battered and deep fried, then that is thrown in a wok with bok choi, onions, pea pods, bamboo shoots and finally bean sprouts. Szechuan Peppery Hot Sauce is added to duck sauce and wow, what flavor....

hehehehehehe just kidding, I would never eat anything with Poodle in it....Now Great Dane and German Sheperd, The hind(also known as butt steaks) steaks.......huge! Who can eat a whole one?:dev1:


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## Abbey Normal (Jun 9, 2006)

sitarro said:
			
		

> Hey Abbey,
> 
> What is your favorite Entree'.......I like the Sweet and Sour Rottle(a hybrid of a Standard Poodle and Rottweiler). The flanks are marinated in a soy/hot chili oil marinade for 9 years then battered and deep fried, then that is thrown in a wok with bok choi, onions, pea pods, bamboo shoots and finally bean sprouts. Szechuan Peppery Hot Sauce is added to duck sauce and wow, what flavor....
> 
> hehehehehehe just kidding, I would never eat anything with Poodle in it....Now Great Dane and German Sheperd, The hind(also known as butt steaks) steaks.......huge! Who can eat a whole one?:dev1:



Sittaro, the proper order is: study first, beer second.


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## sitarro (Jun 10, 2006)

Oh SHIT....He's right!!!!!!!!

The Controllers are meeting!

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/09/060609182249.1er4rqqb.html

World's who's who hold secret talks in Ottawa
Jun 09 9:57 PM US/Eastern
  Email this story	
The world's political elite, top thinkers and powerful business folk gathered here for an annual, ultra-secretive Bilderberg conference as heavy security kept conspiracy theorists and curious onlookers at bay.

Global luminaries such as former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger, US banker David Rockefeller and Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands were greeted at the airport by limousine drivers holding single-letter "B" signs late Thursday, said local reports.



They were quickly whisked away to the Brookstreet Hotel in a serene suburb of Ottawa for three-day talks on oil markets, security concerns tied to Iran's nuclear ambitions, terrorism, and immigration, the Ottawa Citizen reported.

Conspiracy theorists who follow the group accuse it of plotting world domination at its informal annual gatherings.

But, Richard Perle, former US defence policy advisor, upon his arrival in Ottawa, denied allegations the group crafts public policy behind closed doors. "It discusses public policy," he stressed to a Citizen reporter.

A statement from the group said the meetings were private to encourage "frank and open discussions."

But skeptic Daniel Estulin, who flew from Spain to try to cover the conference, said their intent is to "create a world government ruled by an elite group of people whose main objective is to control all the natural resources on the planet."


Another local observer commented to the Citizen: "There are all sorts of gaps in what politicians say and do. This is just another example of the circumventing of the democratic process."

The talks are by invitation-only. Because discussions are off-the-record, the group has been subject to similar criticisms and speculation about its intentions since 1954 when the first conference was held at the Hotel de Bilderberg in the Netherlands.

Several sources say Poland's Joseph Retinger, former Belgian prime minister Paul van Zeeland, and former Unilever chief executive Paul Rijkens organized the first meeting to unite European and US elites amid growing cross-Atlantic tensions a half-century ago.

Its success spawned similar talks at posh hotels and palaces in Europe, the United States and Canada each year since.

Other attendees seen arriving in Ottawa on Thursday included former Canadian ambassador to Washington Frank McKenna, Royal Dutch Shell chairman Jorma Ollila, former World Bank president James Wolfenson and Scandinavian Airlines chairman Egil Myklebust, according to reports.

Former New York governor George Pataki, Iraq's deputy prime minister Ahmad Chalabi, the heads of Coca-Cola, Credit Suisse, the Royal Bank of Canada, several media moguls, and cabinet ministers from Spain and Greece, were also expected to attend.


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## Said1 (Jun 10, 2006)

Why wasn't I invited? Do you think they snubbed me on purpose?


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## dilloduck (Jun 10, 2006)

Said1 said:
			
		

> Why wasn't I invited? Do you think they snubbed me on purpose?



Don't try to pretend you're not a controller. We've been watching you for some time now!:bat:


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## Said1 (Jun 10, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Don't try to pretend you're not a controller. We've been watching you for some time now!:bat:




Pfffffft. I wish.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 12, 2006)

We will over throw these Controllers, and I'll tell you why. Because a handful of corporations and their controllers cannot control over 290 million Americans who do not wish to cooperate with that control. And thats what we are going to achieve. Total Independence from these Controllers and their Machine. And the minute that we all decide to stop playing their game, thats when their control will cease to be.

You see, it takes a secondary source of energy in order to run a machine. And in the Controller's case, they use Human Beings as the fuel for running their Agenda. But the second that we all decide to stop going to work, and to stop allowing them to strip away our rights, and to stop playing the game by their rules, then we win, and they will lose. And thats how we will gain back our independence.

People have asked me for the solution, and I'm telling you this is it. Even if the Controllers re-instated the draft, in order to force us to fight in their World War 3, then there would be no way for that to happen if everyone fought the draft all at once.

And so what if they put us in jail. Could they put 290 million people in jail? Of course not. Their game would be over. And some of you might be thinking that all of the American people do not have the courage to stand up together all at once. Well let me tell you this, you must never ever lose faith in your fellow Brothers and Sisters, because as soon as you do that you have already lost the battle.

Rather, you should all be seeking to empower the people around you, so that they can all join you on your quest to defeat these Evil Controllers. Problem, Reaction, Solution, we will use their own system against them.

Many people know in their hearts that the way we will defeat these Controllers is not through violence and destruction. No, these are the forces that the Controllers operate from. We can not fight Evil with Evil. It will not work. 

How many Human Beings are willing to choose death over killing their Brother or their Sister? Perhaps many. But how many Human Beings are willing to choose death over not going to work? It's the things that the Controller's see as our greatest weaknesses that will end up being our greatest strengths. And in the end it will be the controllers greatest strengths that will end up causing them all to fall from their power.

To quote author Robert Anton Wilson: 

*"Every conspiracy collapses eventually because of the psychological likelihood that those who are superlatively clever at deceiving others become equally clever at deceiving themselves. Disinformation eats those who create it."*


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 12, 2006)

If I was you guys, I would start looking at the people who head up some of the major corporations of our World. Also, I would look into family bloodlines relating to Royal Power, and some of the many corrupt Government Hierarchy Officials. I would look into the Rockefellers, and the Rothschilds, and into the Federal Reserve Scam in this country. Then I would start watching every day what the Controllers are pumping out in the news. Not that you should believe much of what they say, but it will allow you to sit back and objectively watch what they are cramming down our throats in order to get us ready for what they have in store for us. 

With that said, there are many of these people who work behind the scenes. In the shadows so to speak. These people do not show their faces for a reason, but that does not mean they aren't the ones who are giving the orders. The puppets are usually the ones that show themselves to the public, but the real people at the top remain hidden from our sight. 

Now, even though that may be, the results will still be the same. If we overthrow the Controller's System, then the Controllers will go down with it. Including the ones at the top who operate from the shadows. On this planet, there is no force stronger than the force of God within us. And working together as it should be, there will be nothing we can't accomplish.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 12, 2006)

I am talking in terms of what we need to do as an entire people. We need to all pull together to remove the system from existence. 

Look, it doesn't really matter if not everybody totally understands what I'm saying. And there may be no way for me to change their mind. I understand that too. However, there is one thing that all people need to realize. Very soon, these same "Controllers" are planning to start a World War 3. It will be the biggest and bloodiest conflict this World has ever seen. And it doesn't NEED to happen! Thats right. You read that right. It doesn't need to happen at all. There is an alternative to war. And there always has been. 

So please, if you guys understand one thing, please understand this. There is no reason at all for us to go along with their war. And when they announce that there is no other option but for us to invade Iran, please understand that there IS another option. And later down the line, in a couple of years or so, when they announce that it is time for us to invade Korea (after North Korea invades South Korea), please understand that it would be the dumbest decision our country ever made. 

We would be slitting our own throats. Invading North Korea would be their final step to lure us all into their plans for World War 3 because it would take us face to face with a war against Red China. And this is what they want! I don't care if a fricken nuke goes off in the USA, we cannot allow them to bring our country into World War 3. Thats been their plan for us all along. And we can't allow for that to happen. So we will have to do whatever it takes so that it doesn't. Because I promise you folks, if we allow these people to bring us into another war, a World War beyond the scope of your imagination, then this Country and our entire Planet will turn into a living Hell. And I do mean that in the worst sense possible. 

So, whatever it takes, whatever we have to do as a nation and as a race, we have to do it soon. And we have to take a stand. Don't let them fool you with threats, and don't turn to them for help after something major happens in this country. A man-made disaster that will shake the World. They will try to do anything and everything in their power to lure us into another Great War. And we cannot allow for that to happen. If it does, this country will fall apart, and we will all become slaves for their New World Order. Mark my words people I promise you as someone who cares about the lives of every single one of you, if we allow for this all to go down as they have it planned for us, then they will have won and we will all be reduced to nothing but slaves for their Agenda.


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## dilloduck (Jun 12, 2006)

Dodge the draft--Save the world. That's your big solution ???


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 12, 2006)

Part of it.


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## dilloduck (Jun 12, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Part of it.



Do I have to beg for the other part?


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 14, 2006)

Personally, I don't believe that after the Controllers fall this time, and they will, that they will be able to muster up anything close to what they have done for quite some time. It won't be for about 1,000 years or so before they will even begin to be able to try again what they have apparently been so successful at before. But by that time, we Humans will have evolved to immense proportions, and by that time, alot of the Gifts and things that have been forgotten over time will be remembered, and we will be better equipped to handle any of these forces with all of the tools we will have at our disposal. 

No....in my mind, we are finishing out God's plan for us. And God's plan for us, to me anyways, would never be a continual cycle of the same thing over and over. Once the lesson has been learned, it's time to move onto a new one. And unfortunately we Humans just haven't been able to get the damn thing right yet. But we are close....very close. And soon I think you will be seeing more of the WE consciousness than the I consciousness that has dominated this planet for over 15,000 years. Especially within the last 1,000.

Not sure if you guys are fimilar with Numerology, but the number 2 has very special meaning when determining which way our race as a whole will be leaning towards. 2 as in the Year 2,000 - 3,000. Each number has it's own special meaning. But the number 2 represents the WE consciousness, and the number 1 represents the I consciousness. Together, we will make this next 1,000 years an extremely peaceful time, but you have to remember that something like this could have only been done together. 

Of Course, I plan to cover two more VERY important subjects in this thread as the time passes on. But for now, it's important to cover the Controllers so that people get the jist of whats actually going on right now.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 14, 2006)

As this overview of China comes to a close.....we need to cover the World's current hot spots - Eurasia and the Middle East.

America's most recent interactions with the Islamic World occurred when the Russians invaded Afghanistan in 1979. This event had vital historical importance for not only did the United States give armaments and technological aid to the Afghan rebels, but the USSR's humiliating defeat was one of the factors ultimately leading to its demise. The ramifications of that war continue to reverberate to this day, for although Saudi Arabia was Afghanistan's primary backer, the fledgling Taliban and Al Quaeda were trained by the ISI (Packistan's secret service) and our own CIA. Pakistan also served as a conduit for U.S. money and weapons to the Muslims.

Thus, a seemingly beneficial link was established between the U.S. and Islamic World, but if we jump ahead to 1991's Gulf War and our invasion of Iraq, problems start to arise. Even though the Muslim World supported America's intervention (at least on the surface), they also saw the battle between Kuwait and Iraq as an inter-family squabble to be settled among themselves. At that time, a fitting analogy would be like Iran attacking our Southwest after Texas and Oklahoma got into a tussle.

Another factor that strained this situation was the Bush Administration, via U.S. Ambassador April Gillespie, giving Saddam Hussein the okay to invade their neighbor by telling him, "We have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait." Worse, it was later discovered that the story of 300 premature babies at Kuwait's Maternity Hospital that were supposedly removed from their incubators and slaughtered by Iraqi soldiers was completely untrue and nothing more than a propaganda stunt to sway the public opinion.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 14, 2006)

The truth is that much of the Arab World saw our Iraqi invasion as nothing more than a means to protect our self-interests (oil), plus a way to keep them under our thumb. Worse, as the U.S. soundly whooped the Iraqis, the Muslim World felt a sense of humiliation in that their civilization was once again defeated by the West. And last but not least, many Arabs still feel that the United States blatant favoritism of Israel over every other Muslim country is patently unfair.

Two years later, in February 1993, our World Trade Center was bombed for the first time, and then on September 11, 2001 tragedy struck with the infamous terrorist attacks. The World changed that day, and the machinations for the Controllers to move forward with their New World Order Agenda were ignited.

Thus, we should take a look at how this debacle is playing out. First of all, the power elite realize that problems face both of their Cold War super-powers - the U.S. and USSR - none the least being that they are "mature" societies with low birth rates, aging populations, sluggish economies, and no continuing vigor to expand their territories (despite how the media portrays American imperialism). Compared to other hungry countries like those in Asia, India, or the Islamic World, the U.S. and Russia are seen by the Controllers as being satisfied with the status quo.


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## Annie (Jun 14, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> The truth is that much of the Arab World saw our Iraqi invasion as nothing more than a means to protect our self-interests (oil), plus a way to keep them under our thumb. Worse, as the U.S. soundly whooped the Iraqis, the Muslim World felt a sense of humiliation in that their civilization was once again defeated by the West. And last but not least, many Arabs still feel that the United States blatant favoritism of Israel over every other Muslim country is patently unfair.
> 
> Two years later, in February 1993, our World Trade Center was bombed for the first time, and then on September 11, 2001 tragedy struck with the infamous terrorist attacks. The World changed that day, and the machinations for the Controllers to move forward with their New World Order Agenda were ignited.
> 
> Thus, we should take a look at how this debacle is playing out. First of all, the power elite realize that problems face both of their Cold War super-powers - the U.S. and USSR - none the least being that they are "mature" societies with low birth rates, aging populations, sluggish economies, and no continuing vigor to expand their territories (despite how the media portrays American imperialism). Compared to other hungry countries like those in Asia, India, or the Islamic World, the U.S. and Russia are seen by the Controllers as being satisfied with the status quo.




And your suggestions? Should we just self-destroy?


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 14, 2006)

Well first Kathianne it's important for people to realize how the Controllers benefited from these events.

Because you see, by wanting to lay a New World Order foundation in these other countries before they got too strong while minimizing the risk of monumental personal losses, the Controllers came up with a grand scheme. First of all they baited the American people into finding a new enemy by allowing three airliners to crash into our Pentagon and World Trade Centers. We naturally wanted revenge, so a _Wag the Dog_ scenario unfolded complete with widespread flag-waving and conditioned patriotism. Soon we were bombing an invisible enemy (Osama bin laden) in Afghanistan to take back the poppy fields for the CIA (heroin), and the natural resources for the Controllers' oil companies.

Not content with a mere takeover of Eurasia, the war-hawks next pushed America into invading Iraq (and they plan to go beyond). Now, if you remember the Controller's motivation behind World War 1 - to rid Europe of its old World Governing system of kings, princes, and royal families - well, the same rationale applies to the Middle East where they want to replace the sheiks and oil families with those more receptive to their Globalist game plan.

But World sentiment is against the war, as it is even within our own borders. So, the Controllers can either rally support via another outrageous catastrophe reminiscent of 9-11, or they can "allow" the U.S. to invade the Middle East and do their dirty work for them. But things are already on shaky ground in America. Our national debt is skyrocketing once again, layoffs continue in the manufacturing field, the economy is stalled or in reverse, our stock market has at times been anemic despite rock-bottom interest rates, and oil prices are through the roof. In addition, a war with Iraq and our subsequent "restructuring" will cost upwards of $100 billion. 

But the Controller's don't care guys, for once America's usefulness has been outlived and we've rid the Middle East of their royal families and old-style rulers, the door will finally be opened for China - the next "king of the hill" - to waltz through. And what will we do about it? Who knows. But consider that we'll be broke, unable to get loans from the international bankers, and our military will be exhausted. At this point everything will become clear as we finally see how we had been set-up for a double-sucker punch from Red China and her allies.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 18, 2006)

To be honest, I don't believe that if any Nuclear attack comes from Iran within the next few years at all, that it's going to be from something that was produced there. I have a personal belief that any nuclear attack that is launched will not come from materials produced in Iran, but will instead come from materials that were put together in Libya. A country that we have all turned a blind eye towards just because they pretended to end their programs. Are you serious? These people have been preparing their weapons since they started them. Do people really believe Libya when they said they were sorry and that they gave up all their work on their nuclear research project? 

It's a joke. The whole World has bought into the lie that Libya produced. I will bet any amount of money that Libya is still conducting it's nuclear research behind the scenes and that by now it has successfully developed weapons of some sort or another which are capable of nuclear destruction. Now it's just a question of when. Keep in mind though, just because Iran will not be producing these weapons any time soon, doesn't mean they won't be using the ones that will be available from their neighbors. Only by the time a nuclear attack finally commences, people all around the World will be left scratching their heads wondering how they were able to do it.


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## dilloduck (Jun 18, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> To be honest, I don't believe that if any Nuclear attack comes from Iran within the next few years at all, that it's going to be from something that was produced there. I have a personal belief that any nuclear attack that is launched will not come from materials produced in Iran, but will instead come from materials that were put together in Libya. A country that we have all turned a blind eye towards just because they pretended to end their programs. Are you serious? These people have been preparing their weapons since they started them. Do people really believe Libya when they said they were sorry and that they gave up all their work on their nuclear research project?
> 
> It's a joke. The whole World has bought into the lie that Libya produced. I will bet any amount of money that Libya is still conducting it's nuclear research behind the scenes and that by now it has successfully developed weapons of some sort or another which are capable of nuclear destruction. Now it's just a question of when. Keep in mind though, just because Iran will not be producing these weapons any time soon, doesn't mean they won't be using the ones that will be available from their neighbors. Only by the time a nuclear attack finally commences, people all around the World will be left scratching their heads wondering how they were able to do it.






> I will bet any amount of money that Libya is still conducting it's nuclear research behind the scenes and that by now it has successfully developed weapons of some sort or another which are capable of nuclear destruction.



Shit dude--who would be dumb enough to bet against someone who knows the future? You seem to be the kind who wouldn't pay up anyway.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 19, 2006)

And here I thought you were my biggest fan Dillo. Shux. :/


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 19, 2006)

The final outrage will occur when people look back upon these major events, for remember, the victor always writes the history books. And if China is the victor and if we allow our Country to get lured into World War 3, Then that new king will be Red China, and they'll put forth the same line that was used on Germany after World War 2 - that the Nazis were aggressors who wanted to expand their territory and were hated WorldWide. But nowadays, think about who is being called the aggressor nation, the imperialist, and who is invoking global hostility. We are! The United States of America. And our President is even being characterized by some as another Adolf Hitler! Can't you see whats going on? We are being set-up to take a fall, only to be written off as another militaristic Nazi Germany-like aggressor! 

The only question remaining is: will we do anything about our predicament before it's too late? Do we have the intestinal fortitude to fight back against this impending atrocity, or will we roll over and play dead? If we choose to do the latter, then please remember these haunting words written by historian Carroll Quigley in _The Evolution of Civilizations_: 

"A civilization, no longer able to defend itself because it is no longer willing to defend itself, lies wide open to "barbarian invaders" who often come from another younger, more powerful civilization." 

America, it is now time to lay aside our complacency and apathy and summon the courage that made this nation great. If we fail to do so, we're finished. It's just that plain and simple.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, I am not going to post this to you by saying "My fellow Americans", or any of that other phony nonsense. Nor will I post this to you in a calm soothing voice as if you were eighth graders like Hillary Clinton or Al Gore would do. They don't have any respect for you. In fact, they view the "everyday man and woman" with disdain. But myself and many others still believe in you! And we don't have time to mess around with such trivialities. 

Instead, I need to lay this out in the most truthful and starkest terms without any of the silly games that people like politicians like to play. So here it goes. 

If we allow the Controlling faction of international bankers, multinational corporate heads and secret society members to continue their rule of America, the luxuries, rights, privileges, and benefits that we currently enjoy will soon be gone. Take a look at what's happening in the World today. We're on the brink of World War 3. We're already at war with Iraq, but then there is the Jews and Palestinians tearing each other's throats out. And let's not forget about Iran. When America intervenes in these blood baths, North Korea will invade South Korea; then there is a chance that India will even invade Pakistan. Do you remember the Allied/Axis division in World War 2? George Bush has already thrown down the gauntlet, setting us against the "Axis of Evil". Does the terminology sound eerily familiar? It should, because the same forces that manipulated and financed every war of the 20th century are the same ones who are setting the stage for World War 3.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 19, 2006)

Please, Listen! We need to either save this nation right NOW, or surrender it! The people of the United States don't control their Government. Worse, neither do our elected officials. 

So you may be asking: Then who does? The Answer: an evil oligarchy lurking in the shadows. These deceitful devils, representing a "New World Order", have their sights set on bringing the American reign to an end, then leading the monstrous nation of China to the forefront as the World's next exploited superpower. 

Folks, this is what's happening. Don't listen to the lies on TV, or to the propagandists that are weaving masterful illusion. America is going to be brought to it's knees if we don't do something soon. 

Think it can't happen? Neither did the Romans, the French, Genghis Khan or the British Empire. But guess what? As arrogant and mighty as they all were, each was defeated and replaced by another. The British, one of the greatest dynasties of all time, NEVER thought they'd be knocked from the top of the mountain. But they were -- by us! 

Now we think the same way. Many Americans say whole heartedly, "America is the greatest -- economically, militarily, socially and morally." And do you know what? It's understandable why you feel that way. But what you need to understand is that there is a sick, nefarious cabal of evil men that are plotting America's demise as we speak! How so? Realistically, America is not equipped at this moment to fight a war on more than one front (thanks to those who manipulated Bill Clinton). But with Afghanistan, Iraq/Iran, and the Israeli/Palestinian debacle, we'll be spread too thin. Then if India, Pakistan and the Koreas flare up, all hell is going to break loose and we won't be strong enough to contain the situation. And thats where Red China enters the picture.


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## dilloduck (Jun 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Please, Listen! We need to either save this nation right NOW, or surrender it! The people of the United States don't control their Government. Worse, neither do our elected officials.
> 
> So you may be asking: Then who does? The Answer: an evil oligarchy lurking in the shadows. These deceitful devils, representing a "New World Order", have their sights set on bringing the American reign to an end, then leading the monstrous nation of China to the forefront as the World's next exploited superpower.
> 
> ...



I'm all ears dude. We dodge the draft--then what?


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## Gunny (Jun 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Please, Listen! We need to either save this nation right NOW, or surrender it! The people of the United States don't control their Government. Worse, neither do our elected officials.
> 
> So you may be asking: Then who does? The Answer: an evil oligarchy lurking in the shadows. These deceitful devils, representing a "New World Order", have their sights set on bringing the American reign to an end, then leading the monstrous nation of China to the forefront as the World's next exploited superpower.
> 
> ...



The US is and has been since WWII, prepared in every way to fight a two-front war.  Clinton did nothing to dismantle that capablilty.  All worse-case scenarios involving the US military include a two-front war scenario.  

Your scenario proposes a FOUR-front war, with the US involving itself in regional wars that we would not.  Israel doesn't need anyone's help with Palestine, and we have yet to interfere with India/Pakistan.

Korea is a joke.  Kim il Sung gets off one shot and is squashed.  Period.  The military power to blow N Korea back into the Ice Age is ALREADY prepositioned in the area, and has been since 1950.

Obviously, your knowledge of US military capability is marginal at best, but mostly just ignorant.  Stick to what you know.


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## manu1959 (Jun 19, 2006)

GunnyL said:
			
		

> The US is and has been since WWII, prepared in every way to fight a two-front war.  Clinton did nothing to dismantle that capablilty.  All worse-case scenarios involving the US military include a two-front war scenario.
> 
> Your scenario proposes a FOUR-front war, with the US involving itself in regional wars that we would not.  Israel doesn't need anyone's help with Palestine, and we have yet to interfere with India/Pakistan.
> 
> ...



i disagree with your statement about clinton doing nothing to dismantle that capability.....

he cut spending...closed bases and messed up the way the various inteligence agencies communicate....that said the military did a fair job of overcomming his cuts....but clinton is the reason we got wacked in somolia..kobar...uss cole...wtc I etc........


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 20, 2006)

Did you know that all-together, Red China's Army has as many soldiers in their military as we have people in our ENTIRE country? Think about how scary that is. Once we spread ourselves too thin in war after war, the Red Chinese are going to come in an wipe us away on the battlefield. Once that happens, the stock markets will collapse, financial havoc will ensue, and America will be thrust into a nightmare like none they've ever seen before.

Take a look at the big picture. We are on the verge of disaster in this country, and no one is doing anything to stop it. The people who are aware of it -- and they should be highly commended -- can only go so far. But let's be truthful. If all we do is read more books, magazines, articles and watch more videotapes, then nothing is going to stop this juggernaut of destruction. Have they so far? No! And here's the reason why:

The Controllers, those people running much of the World, are evil. Pure and simple. If you don't believe me, just take a look at whats happening. One-hundred thousand people die every day from starvation on this planet. One-hundred thousand! And guess what? We currently have the money, resources, and technology to feed every one of them. But we don't. We let them go so long without food that they DIE!

These people running nations and Governments are supposed to be adults! But they sure don't behave like it. These people have wealth beyond comprehension, but they don't act to make our World a better place. We're still killing eachother like crazy, with the United States now ready to invade other countries.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 20, 2006)

So I guess the real question guys is this. Haven't we learned anything yet? Can't these ADULTS who are supposed to be running nations do any better than to let people starve, or supply them with weapons so that they can keep on killing each other?

Yes, think about it. Where are these wars being waged? Along the castle-lined rivers of affluence in Europe, or the fancy mansion rows of Long Island or Washington DC? Of course not. Poor people are waging the wars. Most of them don't have enough money to feed their families or build houses that we could even consider living in by American standards. Yet, mysteriously, they have guns and rocket launchers to kill each other with.

Where are these weapons and resources coming from? Do they suddenly appear out of thin air? Hardly. They come from the "foreign aid" that the Controllers give them.

How many years have we been giving them this supposed "foreign aid" to end starvation? At least four or five decades, and yet 100,000 people die every day from hunger. How many billions of dollars have we spent around the World to create peace? But recently at times we have had over 30 wars going on, with World War 3 possibly right around the corner.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 20, 2006)

Doesn't the entire situation seem preposterous? Something's not right, and it isn't right because certain factions are guaranteeing that it's NOT made right. These factions are what we call the Controllers -- the New World Order - the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderbergs and the Club of Rome (among others).

These people want to create a one-World political, economic, and religious framework that will once and for all put and end to the sovereign existence we currently enjoy in America.

The ONLY way to stop these destructive forces is to EXPOSE them, and then takeover the system they currently monopolize. Their ultimate plan is to assume absolute control by turning chaos into order.

This cabal controls all the banks, and they control  most Governmental entities. Using these two vehicles, with a compliant media to pave the way, the shadow powers will launch the next Great War. The terrorist attacks on 9-11 were a symbolic beginning, and if you think that catastrophe was horrific, World War 3 will truly sicken you. This is going to be the real thing if we don't stop it - obliteration on a grand scale that mankind has never seen before.


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## dilloduck (Jun 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Doesn't the entire situation seem preposterous? Something's not right, and it isn't right because certain factions are guaranteeing that it's NOT made right. These factions are what we call the Controllers -- the New World Order - the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderbergs and the Club of Rome (among others).
> 
> These people want to create a one-World political, economic, and religious framework that will once and for all put and end to the sovereign existence we currently enjoy in America.
> 
> ...



You not really exposing much except for your penchant to drone on and on without being open to discussion


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 20, 2006)

Always open for discussion. As long as it relates to the facts.


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## dilloduck (Jun 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Always open for discussion. As long as it relates to the facts.



That's what I'd like to hear. Some facts as to what you think can be done to change anything that these "controllers" have in store for the world.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 20, 2006)

Perhaps you haven't been paying enough attention? I've been slipping hints in since this threads beginning.

Rather than come up with the entire solution by myself...how bout working as a team to figure it out? I'm speaking in terms of everyone on this board who is interested. Suggestions from everyone are important. No suggestion should be overlooked when it relates to a solution.


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## Annie (Jun 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Perhaps you haven't been paying enough attention? I've been slipping hints in since this threads beginning.
> 
> Rather than come up with the entire solution by myself...how bout working as a team to figure it out?


How about cutting to the chase?


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 20, 2006)

The Chase?


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 20, 2006)

_I'm speaking in terms of everyone on this board who is interested. Suggestions from everyone are important. No suggestion should be overlooked when it relates to a solution._

Never be afraid to stand up for whatever it is you believe in. Even if you end up being the only one who's standing.


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## dilloduck (Jun 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> _I'm speaking in terms of everyone on this board who is interested. Suggestions from everyone are important. No suggestion should be overlooked when it relates to a solution._
> 
> Never be afraid to stand up for whatever it is you believe in. Even if you end up being the only one who's standing.



The butler did it !!!! 

It was that simple wasn't it ???  damn


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 22, 2006)

But to the Controllers, war is a necessary step in their overall plan. Because once we get so sick of the bloodshed and violence...when we can't tolerate even one more second of fighting....these people are hoping that we'll finally lie down and accept their New World Order. Can't you see? It's CONTROLLED CONFLICT, and they're the ones in charge. They'll kill millions of innocent people -- they already have -- in order to promote their agenda and to seize more control. Fear and chaos will be the main ingredients in their equation. Out of Chaos...order....a New World Order.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 22, 2006)

Some will say that there is no such thing as the "Illuminati" or "Controllers". To them, history is nothing more than a series of random events. But don't believe them. Franklin Roosevelt said it best: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."

Folks, I implore you to listen. The greatness of this country is about to be taken from us. We're not as invincible as we once thought. Our fallen World Trade Center proves that. We are very vulnerable and very replaceable. Why? Because, quite simply, China now holds more economic potential than we do. Think about it. China is a virtually undeveloped market with over a billion residents, many of them without simple modern luxuries that we ignore like telephones and televisions. To the Controllers who have seized World control primarily via financial means, China is the ultimate frontier....the final payoff.

Look at the British Empire of old. They had the greatest military on Earth, the greatest banks, and the most advanced political system ever known. They were literally "king of the hill". But did their dynasty endure forever? No. We became the next superpower because, in simplest terms, we held more potential.

America was bigger; it could hold more people, and it could be exploited economically a thousand times more than England. So we REPLACED them.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 22, 2006)

Now look at China. Unlimited land, a billion people, and 99% don't have a tenth of the appliances, gadgets, vehicles, and "toys" that we enjoy. They are very EXPLOITABLE. Also, the labor is extremely cheap; and even better, the Chinese have never known freedom -- ever! That means they won't be trouble makers like us pesky Americans with our Constitution, free speech, guns, and Bill of Rights.

They're already a slave culture, and if things don't change over there then they always will be. Americans will soon be implanted with microchips to guarantee their docility. But right now most of the Chinese people don't even need them. They're already living like slaves!

With all of this information in mind, what are the leaders of our country doing? Everything in their power to stop Red China's economic locomotive? Hell no! The Controllers behind-the-scenes are using America -- our great nation -- to facilitate China's ultimate rise.

We are the ones who are operating under trade agreements that benefit Red China while harming our domestic producers and manufacturers. Our trade imbalance with them is so insulting it's a crime. In addition, we have given them "most favored nation" status. We are also giving them their computer hardware, technology and know-how to build their technological infrastructure.


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## Gunny (Jun 22, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> i disagree with your statement about clinton doing nothing to dismantle that capability.....
> 
> he cut spending...closed bases and messed up the way the various inteligence agencies communicate....that said the military did a fair job of overcomming his cuts....but clinton is the reason we got wacked in somolia..kobar...uss cole...wtc I etc........



We're speaking of two different things here.  Clinton did let the military fall by teh wayside by cutting the budget.  He did not do anything directly to dismantle the US's capability to conduct a two-front war.  If anything, the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Bill did more to hurt the military in that regard than anything Billybob did.

Clinton's piss-poor handling of Somalia is yet another separate issue.  That was called not having any balls.


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## Gunny (Jun 22, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Perhaps you haven't been paying enough attention? I've been slipping hints in since this threads beginning.
> 
> Rather than come up with the entire solution by myself...how bout working as a team to figure it out? I'm speaking in terms of everyone on this board who is interested. Suggestions from everyone are important. No suggestion should be overlooked when it relates to a solution.



You want us to pay for your therapy?


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## Gunny (Jun 22, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Did you know that all-together, Red China's Army has as many soldiers in their military as we have people in our ENTIRE country? Think about how scary that is. Once we spread ourselves too thin in war after war, the Red Chinese are going to come in an wipe us away on the battlefield. Once that happens, the stock markets will collapse, financial havoc will ensue, and America will be thrust into a nightmare like none they've ever seen before.
> 
> Sure they are.
> 
> ...



Alrighty then.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 22, 2006)

GunnyL said:
			
		

> Alrighty then.



Laugh all you want to Gun. 

But when the Truth comes at you soon, because of your current outlook on the situation, it's going to hit you like a ton of bricks.


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## dilloduck (Jun 22, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Laugh all you want to Gun.
> 
> But when the Truth comes at you soon, because of your current outlook on the situation, it's going to hit you like a ton of bricks.



You're cool. You know all this special stuff that no one else knows !
Waht's really cool is that you keep it all to yourself so no one can tell if you're correct or not ! You hold the secret to life and you won't share it. You're really selfish.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 22, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> You're cool. You know all this special stuff that no one else knows !
> Waht's really cool is that you keep it all to yourself so no one can tell if you're correct or not ! You hold the secret to life and you won't share it. You're really selfish.



I suppose that would be a hell of an arguement then Brother if only any of it were true.


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## dilloduck (Jun 22, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I suppose that would be a hell of an arguement then Brother if only any of it were true.



You've been lying all this time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shocked:


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 25, 2006)

Look whats happening right now with our country. We make sure that our President visits Red China regularly to pave the way for even further advances. It was our ex-President (Bill Clinton) who gave them nuclear technology so that they could further develop their atomic weapons.

We are cows being led to slaughter, and we don't even know it! How are you going to like it when the next World leaders speak to you in Chinese?

This is the bottom line: America is being deliberately destroyed by a hidden cabal of Controllers who are intent on furthering their own agendas at our expense. Don't you get it? They're using us as a means to an end.

What does it take to get you mad or enraged? We need to topple this regime! And that's what it is -- a political and economic monopoly that's sick in it's depravity -- a thousand times worse than all the legions of organized crime.

Look at what they've done! They've allowed for the toppling of the World Trade Center right before our eyes. They've assassinated presidents in broad daylight, created the AIDS virus, assumed total control of our media, stolen our vote via Votescam, and lied to us every step of the way.

Wake up! They're killing us without conscience, undermining our way of life, and setting us up for a brutal downfall. Worse, they're doing it while we wave flags and rally around their War Machine. Try to imagine life in these respects. Instead of calling our own shots, we'll be listening to and looking up at the Chinese Communists as they parade around on center stage!

We won't have as many freedoms, we won't have as much money (a lower standard-of-living), and we won't have nearly as much dignity. We will be reduced to followers instead of leaders, no longer masters of our own destiny.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 25, 2006)

So another question to be asked is, How will you enjoy being dominated by the United Nations and the Red Chinese Government? How will you people enjoy paying a World Tax? How will you like no longer being able to speak freely? The Chinese people aren't blessed with freedom of speech at this moment. Do you think that Red China's Government will let you embrace it once they assume control? Not a chance. And guns? Forget about it. They'll all be gone.

As it stands now, the United States of America, as a whole, is eating steak while many other parts of the World settle for Hamburger Helper (or worse). It's a great feeling to eat until we're filled. But how will you feel if you are the one eating the slop while the United Nations and the Red Chinese Government dishes it out to you? The taste will be even more bitter if we knew we had a chance to alter this situation and didn't do anything to change it while we could.

Yes, we have things pritty good in this country for the time being. But if we refuse to act, if we settle into a state of complacency and if we're too afraid to stake everything we have on keeping what we have, I assure you, it will be gone.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 25, 2006)

We've lost control of our own home - our nation - to a band of sinister manipulators who act in their own best interest, not ours. These people have become so arrogant in their power, that they're virtually unreachable.

Don't believe me? The same thing exists with our politicians! Try to get a face-to-face meeting with Congressman Hillary Clinton. It's virtually impossible to have her even respond to an email.

Isn't it clear? The people on TV are lying to you, and they've been lying to you for eons. The Media's job isn't to give you the nightly news. It's to give you a daily dose of conditioning. 

Likewise, our Government leaders don't make any REAL decisions (at least meaningful ones). They only implement those made by the ones who pull their strings. Why? Because the people who call the shots aren't located in Washington, DC.

The real power brokers sit in places like New York City skyscrapers and tell our "selected" officials in the nation's capital what to do. I'm sorry to say, but that is the brutal reality of our situation.

At this point, we need to ask ourselves: Is America worth fighting for? And I don't mean against some cave-dwelling psychopaths in Afghanistan. I mean for the true, essential soul of our country -- the America we've come to know and love.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 29, 2006)

Well I'll tell you one thing guys. If all of us keep sitting around crosslegged and passing the same question back and forth to eachother, than NOTHING is ever going to change. 

But I am going to let you all in on a little secret. There is something soon coming that is far greater than any World disaster you have ever come to imagine. It will be so devastating, so World reaching, so powerful and so Purifying, that it will wipe away most of the Evil forces we see today. However, what happens after that is completely up to us. And no one is going to be there to take care of everything for us.

So....we can all sit here...and keep learning for the meantime. Which is a good thing. And we can all come up with our OWN individual plans, and do what we know is right, until that very moment when the Earth decides that enough is enough and erases most all of the Evil influences that currently reign on our Planet, all I can do, and all you can do, is to continue pressing forward. And even if it results in massive retaliation. Why not give Mother Nature a little hand?

The real question we should all be asking ourselves is this. How much do we really value our Human life on planet Earth? Do you value it more than your Soul? If so, then I promise you now that you will be in for a World of Hell. And unless you release that attachment to this "Corpse" as Jesus called it, then no one, not even God, will be able to save you from yourself.


Jesus Said: 

"Woe to the Flesh dependent on the Soul; Woe to the Soul dependent on the Flesh." 


Jesus Said: 

"Whoever has come to know the World has found The Body. Whoever has found that Body, the World is not worthy of Him." 


Jesus Said: 

"Wretched is a Body depending on a Body, and wretched is a Soul depending on These Two." 


Jesus Said: 

"The Dead do not Live, and the Living will not die." 


Jesus Said: 

"Whoever has known the World has found a Corpse; Whoever has found that Corpse, the World is not worthy of Him."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 29, 2006)

If people still aren't sure whether America is worth fighting for then please let me ask you this question. Do you want to be a citizen or a sevant? What's the difference? A citizen takes responsibility for their rights and freedoms and fights to preserve them. A servant simply follows orders that are bestowed on them from above. The choice is clear. Citizens will fight to keep America first; servants will lie down and allow themselves to be trampled over by the New World Order. 

If you are willing to fight to save this great nation, what must you do? First: EXPOSE the lying, sick, evil-dog New World Order. Once anyone sees what their true motives are, it will be much easier to overthrow them. And yes, I am talking about revolution! But don't get me wrong. I'm not referring to the overthrow of our American Government -- only those secretive, hidden Controllers who have slithered their way into it.

Of course, they're going to fight back, but don't allow yourself to be sucked into their deceit machine. You see, here's how they operate. It's all based upon the old notion of "divide & conquer". To implement this technique, nearly every bit of information given to us is based on five variables: race, gender, class, party and religion. Look at your local newspaper and watch the nightly news. Almost every story is intended to divide us. Whether it's man vs. woman, black vs. white, Muslim vs. Christian, gay vs. straight, old vs. young, rich vs. poor, or Democrat vs. Republican, the result is still the same.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 29, 2006)

The longer that we keep fighting against each other, the less time we'll have to focus our attention on the REAL enemy -- the Controllers.

So don't fall for these obvious tricks any more. Instead, we need to start calling our local newspaper or TV station. We can't just suggest to them....we need to DEMAND that they start running stories on how destructive the New World Order and it's Controllers are.

Don't let them get off the hook. Call every day and tell them you refuse to be inundated with spin doctoring and propaganda day-in and day-out. Then tell every one of your friends and relatives to do the same. It won't take long before they get the idea.

The media needs to be addressed directly! Whether they admit it or not, they are playing an increasingly vital role in implementing this New World Order. They are being duped! Either wittingly or unwittingly. 

Whats the solution? They need to stop taking it any longer. They need to defy their editors, owners and station heads. They need to run stories that tell the truth, not just a slew of sanitized lies. The media needs to stop allowing the Controllers to bamboozle them. They are responsible for the truth. They need to start giving it to us!


----------



## dilloduck (Jun 29, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> The longer that we keep fighting against each other, the less time we'll have to focus our attention on the REAL enemy -- the Controllers.
> 
> So don't fall for these obvious tricks any more. Instead, we need to start calling our local newspaper or TV station. We can't just suggest to them....we need to DEMAND that they start running stories on how destructive the New World Order and it's Controllers are.
> 
> ...



Give me the name of a controller so I can hunt one down--just 1.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jun 29, 2006)

You all know nuclear winter is totally correct, right?

Please break free of the neocon brain meld before it's too soon.

http://www.spp.gov


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## dilloduck (Jun 29, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> You all know nuclear winter is totally correct, right?
> 
> Please break free of the neocon brain meld before it's too soon.
> 
> http://www.spp.gov



Thats why I want to beat up a controller.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 30, 2006)

The final step is to get someone into HIGH elected office that hasn't already been bought, sold and controlled by the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, or the Bilderbergs. Thomas Jefferson once said that there should be a revolution every generation to keep those in power honest.

That revolution is long overdue. We need a true revolution...not one to overthrow the framework of our Government, but one that will finally rid our political system of the slimy, sickeningly evil Controllers. 

If you think America is worth fighting for, this is what we have to do. I don't know about you, but I'm throwing my hat in the ring and I'm coming out swinging.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 30, 2006)

Here's where we get into the nitty-gritty of the Controller's ultimate motives. The elite desperately need to create a work force of unquestioning slaves to let them survive the coming cataclysm that I will be posting about in a short while. Whether people know it or not, something big is on the horizon, and the Controllers know full well of it. 

Add to that the threat of Nuclear war, the arrival of a rogue planet or comet, Worldwide viruses, a global warming to the point of burning us out, and you can easily see how the Controllers (via access to catches of hidden knowledge) are fully aware that our days on this planet in our current form are numbered. Why do you think they've already built scores of underground bunkers all around the country (and World) and are rapidly constructing new ones in places like Indiana? Is it because of a band of rag-tag terrorists from Afghanistan or Iraq? Hardly.

The Controllers know that when disaster strikes, the majority of us won't survive. It's happened before to the Mayans, Incas, and on Atlantis, so don't write this scenario off as inconceivable. If it weren't a direct possibility, why would the Controllers be building and updating their bunkers with such fevor? Hell, George Bush even _admitted_ to their shadow Government preparations in underground bases.

Regrettably, once they're inside of them and the doors are locked, guess who won't have a set of keys to get in? Yup - you and me!

While all the rest of us will be similar to robotic machine-like slaves, the Controllers will capitalize on every technological breakthrough available to them. Basicly we will be working our asses off to help ensure their survival! If you think there's a huge chasm between the "haves" and the "have nots" in the World right now, then you haven't seen anything yet.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jun 30, 2006)

Do you know what the Controllers are promoting at this moment in time on our planet? The answer: Death. Yup, the Controllers are behind the management of a death-culture. What is meant by a "death-culture"?

Well, look at our global society for a moment. The man-made AIDS virus is ravaging a variety of locales in our World. Two-thirds of Africa is 35-50% infected with the virus and it is also hitting epidemic proportions in Asia. Nearly 100,000 people die from starvation _every day_ on this planet, even though we have the resources, technology, and money to feed every one.

Then there's the subject of war. Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel and the Palestinians, India and Pakistan, plus a rash of other localized "skirmishes" across the globe. If you analyzed this situation, where do you think most of our wars are taking place? In the wealthy, affluent countries? Hell no. The wars are being waged in the poor areas. You'd think these downtrodden people could be better served with food, clothes, and medicine, don't you? But what are the Controllers forwarding to them? Weapons to kill eachother!

Can't you see it's a Death Culture? And as much as I love this country, guess who's by far-and-leading the way in this sordid endeavor of feeding the War Machine? The USA. In fact, during the year 2000, The United States sold 36.9 billion worth of international arms - 68% to underdeveloped countries. And that's up 8% from the year before. Almost forty billion dollars! $36.9 billion! Half of all weapons sold on the World market came from the US! The next highest seller was Russia, at 7.7 billion, while China only sold $400 million - 1/90th of what we dealt. 

(This Data is from the "Conventional Arms transfer to Developing Nations, 1993-2000," published by the Congressional Research Center). 

I have to ask you - WHAT ARE WE DOING?

Thirty-six billion in arms sales - and $30 billion the year before, and $30 billion the year before, and $38 billion the next year, and $38 billion the following year. Think of how messed-up our priorities are. Starvation, poverty, and doing what's right don't register to the Controllers. Instead, huge profits are squirreled away in their pockets every year from this appalling practice. War is Hell, but war is also "Sell" (and the Controllers are behind it).


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## rtwngAvngr (Jun 30, 2006)

NW.  please quote this message and respond if you're not an automated web program.  This is a test.


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## dilloduck (Jun 30, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Do you know what the Controllers are promoting at this moment in time on our planet? The answer: Death. Yup, the Controllers are behind the management of a death-culture. What is meant by a "death-culture"?
> 
> Well, look at our global society for a moment. The man-made AIDS virus is ravaging a variety of locales in our World. Two-thirds of Africa is 35-50% infected with the virus and it is also hitting epidemic proportions in Asia. Nearly 100,000 people die from starvation _every day_ on this planet, even though we have the resources, technology, and money to feed every one.
> 
> ...



Cut to the chase


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## dilloduck (Jun 30, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> NW.  please quote this message and respond if you're not an automated web program.  This is a test.



I bet a controller got him already--he talked too much.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 1, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> NW.  please quote this message and respond if you're not an automated web program.  This is a test.



Far from it my friend. Far from it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 1, 2006)

lol. Rghtwing...

You should have posted that test to 3/4 of our World.

Should have looked like this....



			
				rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> People of the World, please read this message and respond if you're not an automated web program. This is a test.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 1, 2006)

The Controllers are Death Mongers and Death Merchants. Peace is a fallacy and doesn't mean a thing to them. Rather, they want to keep all the "little people" at eachother's throats so they can keep the War Machine rolling.

And folks, if you think all this war and terror talk in the media is justification for such a disgusting practice, you need to look at the World leaders whose strings are being pulled by the Controllers. What if many of these secret societies that lurk in the shadows around the Globe are actually under the same domain of one ruling power? Think about it. If Gordon Thomas was able to get such a wealth of information about the Mossad's dealings with the CSIS for his book, _Seeds of Fire_, do you think that it's fathomable that those "above him" aren't aware of what's going on? No way. All these leaders are part of the same plan - the same script - and are carrying out their roles to further promote the War Machine. Globalism, and the Death Culture.

Or, as Eric Phelps, author of Vatican Assassins says in an interview with Rick Martin for _The Spectrum newspaper _(May, 2000): "There's no conflict going on with the Arab nations. All of the Arab nations are under the command of Masonic kings or ayatollahs. Saddam Hussein is no enemy of George Bush; they're both brothers, brothers of the lodge."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 1, 2006)

By the way, relating to that interview above, when Martin says that George Bush Sr. and Saddam Hussein were business partners, Phelps replies, "Sure. Thats why they never killed Saddam. They could have easily killed him. The CIA can kill anybody they want to. They could have easily killed Saddam and gotten out. They could have used their own Arab agents there. Saddam was a very important tool."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 1, 2006)

Also, regarding what I was posting about before, there may actually be some hope relating to China after all. 

Reports have been filtering out of China that their economy isn't as healthy as the Controllers wished it to be. In fact, Gordon Chang stated on June 2, 2002 in the _Asian Wall Street Journal_ that, "The People's Republic can go from both boom to bust in just a few short years." The NewsMax.com article in which this was reported goes on to say that "high expectations from the Chinese economy are grossly exaggerated" and "China's economic growth is declining and its banking system is in disarray, posing a threat of destabilization to the international economy."

Thus, similar to the Controller's grandiose schemes for making Russia into a super-power, China may also prove untenable as a World leader. But it won't be because the international bankers aren't trying. With high unemployment, inflation, a growing deficit, reckless spending, power grabs and dissatisfication among the masses, China might not pan out to be such a glimmering diomand in the Controller's eye. But we shouldn't gloat yet, for if China's (or any other World power's economy collapses), the ramifications will be felt globally, especially here.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 2, 2006)

So, will we keep fiddling around as Nero did and disregard the signs of a disastrous, impending storm, or will we take destiny into our own hands and destroy the Controllers? That's what it's going to ultimately take - total destruction. Because if we allow these Evil monsters to fulfill their aims, dire consequences await us. Folks, we're not talking any longer about saving this country, or control of our minds. No, the very survival of Humanity itself is at stake, for if the Controllers continue to pursue the routes they are taking, everything we know and Love is going to be gone! I repeat......gone! 

Everyone needs to ask themselves, "Is this what we really want?" 

It's time to take some action!


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 2, 2006)

George Orwell, author of the infamous novel _1984_, described the horrors of a technological Big Brother future as "a boot stomping on a Human face." During the past two months, it has become increasingly clear that all of us are being transformed into mechanistic cogs that more resemble monitored automatons than Human Beings. 

This trend fits part-and-parcel into the Controller's overall goals of Global dominance and subservience among the masses. To better understand the direction our society is heading, take a look at what has transpired in the year 2002 alone. 

For years, the dreaded "Mark of the Beast" was spoken about by "crazy conspiratologists" as proof that Big Brother would finalize his quest for control by injecting us with computer microchips. These miniature devices would be retrieved by scanner-like receivers. Over time, no one would be able to buy, sell, obtain a driver's liscence, log onto a computer, or be admitted into a hospital without the chip. 

But nah, that was all "paranoia talk" the debunkers and unbelievers said. We'd never be implanted with computer microchips that revealed our medical backround, family history, financial records, video purchases, brushes with the law, or information about what Internet sites we looked at. This wouldn't happen to us. I mean, Americs IS the land of the free right? 

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint all the skeptics, but guess what? The future is now. Applied Digital Solutions recently announced that on April 4, 2002, the FDA granted them permission for the "sales, marketing, and distribution of the VeriChip in the United States." Then, on May 10, 2002, at the VeriChip Center in Palm Beach County, Florida, the Jacobs Family got "chipped" with a miniaturized, implantable, radio frequency identification device."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 2, 2006)

This chip will have a pesonalized verification number for each recipient and the information will be stored in a registered database. 

Now take a second and let this news sink in. This is the real thing. The dreaded "MARK OF THE BEAST"! Folks, this is the beginning of a new era in which we are forfeiting control of our privacy and sovereignty. 

Sure, at first these companies will make everything sound tame and benign; but beware! I guarantee that more and more information will be stored in these chips, and that they'll be required for more and more activities until the day when all Human Beings will be FORCED to be injected, probably at birth. 

Is this the future you want for yourself? Because it damn sure isn't the one I want for me.


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## rtwngAvngr (Jul 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> This chip will have a pesonalized verification number for each recipient and the information will be stored in a registered database.
> 
> Now take a second and let this news sink in. This is the real thing. The dreaded "MARK OF THE BEAST"! Folks, this is the beginning of a new era in which we are forfeiting control of our privacy and sovereignty.
> 
> ...



It's too hard for everyone to get off the neocon dick.  God forbid someone call them a POPULIST or RACIST or ANTISEMITIC.   Words will break these people's fragile little bones, apparently.  Nobody want to be lumped in with "white trash"  they're "better than that".  What do you think of the noahide court system and the jewish angle?  The Sanhedrin is reforming, have you heard the good news?


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## rtwngAvngr (Jul 2, 2006)

I wonder if china is going south, as you say, if they might try to expedite the plan a little.  It seems they may be.  The dubai port deal was tipping their hand too early.  same with this  http://www.spp.gov


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 2, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> It's too hard for everyone to get off the neocon dick.  God forbid someone call them a POPULIST or RACIST or ANTISEMITIC.   Words will break these people's fragile little bones, apparently.  Nobody want to be lumped in with "white trash"  they're "better than that".  What do you think of the noahide court system and the jewish angle?  The Sanhedrin is reforming, have you heard the good news?



It all falls into the same category for me Rtwng.

I do however, believe that more and more people are waking up. Thats the good news. Had it been 100 years ago it would have looked hopeless. Now...because we are so close to the Age of Light....I see things tilting towards the better when it comes to the MASS conciousness of the World.

And thats the irony of this whole situation.

One the one hand...you can say that we are in for 6 of the worst years Humanity has ever experienced. Which would be True.

On the other, you could say that we are closer to World Peace than we may have ever been before. Which is also True.

6 more years is the log that we all have to walk on in order to get across this river. Many people simply won't make it to the other side. It's sad but it's reality.


----------



## Annie (Jul 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> It all falls into the same category for me Rtwng.
> 
> I do however, believe that more and more people are waking up. Thats the good news. Had it been 100 years ago it would have looked hopeless. Now...because we are so close to the Age of Light....I see things tilting towards the better when it comes to the MASS conciousness of the World.
> 
> ...




Nuclear Winter and RWA join forces. What more could the NWO want?


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## rtwngAvngr (Jul 2, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Nuclear Winter and RWA join forces. What more could the NWO want?



wonder twin powers activate!


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## Annie (Jul 2, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> wonder twin powers activate!


There you go!


----------



## sitarro (Jul 2, 2006)

464 pages and I'm still waiting for the punch line.


----------



## Mr.Conley (Jul 2, 2006)

Okay, we know that the controllers are shitty, what do we do about them?


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jul 3, 2006)

Mr.Conley said:
			
		

> Okay, we know that the controllers are shitty, what do we do about them?



I'd say ignoring them and/or mocking them is the best policy.


----------



## dilloduck (Jul 3, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> I'd say ignoring them and/or mocking them is the best policy.



If they are the ones that flooded New York I'd be careful with them.
It's a mess up here.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jul 3, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> It all falls into the same category for me Rtwng.
> 
> I do however, believe that more and more people are waking up. Thats the good news. Had it been 100 years ago it would have looked hopeless. Now...because we are so close to the Age of Light....I see things tilting towards the better when it comes to the MASS conciousness of the World.
> 
> ...




I just noticed this "age of light" business.  THis is the satanic dawn you know.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2006)

Not even close Rtwng.

Satanists aren't nearly old enough to call this Age their own.

This "Age of Peace" or "Age of Light" or "Golden Millenium" or "Age of the Messiah" is much older than any Satanic cult.

It has been prophesized for thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years.

It does not belong to the Satanists. Although they would like to think it does.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jul 3, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Not even close Rtwng.
> 
> Satanists aren't nearly old enough to call this Age their own.
> 
> ...



Aliens?  The watchers are not meant to meddle in human affairs you know.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2006)

So you believe in Aliens as well then? Thats a separate issue all-together. Or is it? ~

But to keep on this subject, the Bible itself came WAY WAY WAY later than the prophesized Golden Millennium. This goes way back to the days of the Ancient Egyptians/Mayans. And actually even before that.

And you could use the ET theory to argue that, but you have to remember, even an "Alien" civilization falls under certain laws and rules of the Universe. 

But to get back to my point....most if not all Satanic cults came after the creation of the first Hebrew scriptures. And the Hebrew scriptures are not very old at all in the bigger scheme of things.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jul 3, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> So you believe in Aliens as well then? Thats a separate issue all-together. Or is it? ~
> 
> But to keep on this subject, the Bible itself came WAY WAY WAY later than the prophesized Golden Millennium. This goes way back to the days of the Ancient Egyptians/Mayans. And actually even before that.
> 
> ...



I'm open to many ideas.  My conception of morality is actually trancendant of any known religions.  I read all theories I can regarding humanity, history, to figure out what's right.  I believe the utlimate morality respects individual sovereignty and honest genius over hierarchical oppression and deceptive opportunism.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2006)

One of the most intrusive devices in our modern lives is Carnivore/DCS1000, which uses both hardware and software to read our incoming and outgoing e-mail, including who sent the message, who received it, the body of the e-mail, and also the message subject. Worse, Carnivore can also monitor everything a computer user has ever downloaded, and also their web searches.

It can even go so far as to scan all the electronic traffic from an ISP (Internet Service Provider), more commonly known as a "server".

I don't know about you, but I don't want the FBI, CIA, National Security Agency or any other Governmental body looking through what I do, or listening to my telephone conversations. But that is precisely what is going on right now,and there is furnished proof of it. It is a fact that phones are being monitored, e-mail transmissions are being red, misdirected, or "munched".

In an article entitled "Stop Carnivore Now", the author says that the FBI could, with their electronic wiretapping equipment:


* Ban any language content found to be objectionable by interception, deletion, or alteration.

* Monitor the country's communications and target any person who was found or suspected to be a "problem". The judge of who or what is "a problem"? The FBI.

* Invoke mandatory standards for web sites, such as a rating system.

* Shut down or shut off the communications of any one person, website, company, or ISP.


The same article continues: "A few years down the road when your phone company, your cable TV provider, radio stations, and cell phone company are all part of your "ISP" and Carnivore/DCS1000 is installed there, the FBI will have exclusive control of what you can and can't watch, say, or do while using these technologies."

The author concludes, "One of the great powers of the Internet is the fact that it still exists beyond the control of any person or agency."

Ask yourself this question: Shouldn't we keep it that way?


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2006)

In March, 2002, Washington DC's Mayor Anthony A. Williams told reporters from the _Washington Times_ that the nation's capital must mimic the actions of cities such as Sydney and London in regard to the expansion of its camera monitoring program. Thus, Mayor Williams was exposing the plans of the Controllers to make DC comparable to England,, where the Government now maintains over two million surveillance cameras in city parks, school yards, trains and bus depots, intersections, airports, and even in residential neighborhoods. 

This plan is a prototype to be used all across the country in every city, town, and municipality. Considering that we already have cameras pointed at us in department stores, elevators, lobbies,  malls, banks, gas stations, and at many traffic light intersections, we have to ask ourselves how many more are needed to keep an eye on us. (Not to mention the Global tracking satellites that hover above our planet and can photograph you from outer space.)


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2006)

After reading George Orwell's _1984_ and _Animal Farm_ or Aldous Huxley's _Brave New World_, many people are overtaken by a sense of dread, and yet they try and rationalize the scenario by saying that it's either somewhere down the road in the future, or else it couldn't possibly happen at all. But considering the above information (which is literally only the tip of the iceberg), not only is Big Brother very close to becoming a reality; some say it already IS a reality!

If you're still not convinced, rent the movie, _Enemy of the State_ with Will Smith, Gene Hackman, Jon Voight, and Lisa Bonet. After viewing it, you'll have a pritty good idea of what the Controllers are capable of.

And yet while all this stuff is happening, we sit back, watch, take it all in, and LET it continue! Do we really want Big Brother to know our every move (and thought in some cases), or to keep constant vigilance over us, and ultimately to "stomp his boot into our Human faces?"

If we don't take action soon, real soon, then get ready to start cringing, 'cause those guys are going to start kicking!


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 5, 2006)

_"Food is power! We use it to change behavior. Some may call that bribery. We do not apologize."_

*-- Catherine Bertini, Executive Director U.N. World Food Program* 


When one thinks about raising crops, the concept seems pretty simple. Farmers plant seeds, tend to them as they grow, then harvest the end result, whether it is corn, wheat, or alfalfa. But did you know that less than twenty multinational corporations now own the patents to all the seeds in the World?

One of the giants trying to corner, or manipulate this market is Monsanto, based in St. Louis, Missouri. A Global leader in agricultural biotechnology, Monsanto is now in a position to control the food chain from seed to upper table. A few companies such as Dupont in Wilmington, Delaware, W.M. Grace, Bayer, Pfizer, and Archer Daniels Midland have placed the entire control of the World's food supply into the hands of a few companies. In fact, the Rockefeller Foundation controls the patent on seeds for 95% of the Earth's major cereal crops.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 5, 2006)

Why should this statistic alarm you? The answer lies in a little publicized technological breakthrough called "The Terminator Gene." Before devling into the ramifications of this concept though, you should read this overview of the "food chain" as it stands now in the World of corporate farming.

To begin with, the above listed companies, along with others in the multinational food network that are maintained by the Controller's octopus-like grip, have a virtual lock on what we ultimately consume. To put it in the bluntest terms possible, these companies plan our food, harvest, warehouse, transport, and eventually sell it. Also, an alarming few corporations also own the EXCLUSIVE patents on many of the seeds sold to farmers.

The Controllers have quietly assumed such a stranglehold over this vitally important industry, that they essentially hold the powers of life-and-death in their hands.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 5, 2006)

This is crucial information folks. And let me tell you why......


The Controller's:


*1.* Set the crop prices via subsidies and market manipulation.

*2.* Decide who can purchase and sell the various crops through multinational trade agreements and Government deals.

*3.* Control the logistics of food transportation by monopolizing the shipping industry, especially trucking, where independent movers have all but been eliminated! What this means is, if a farmer decides to buck the system, he can keep growing crops, but he won't be able to find anyone to bring his harvest to the market. The Controllers have a way of shutting down "troublemakers".

*4.* Create a slew of regulations that hassle small farmers and/or mavericks out of business.

*5.* Control fertilizer production (which is an essential element of the overall process).

*6.* Control the seed market via "terminator genes."

*7.* Control storage facilities (i.e. grain silos).

*8.* Refuse bank loans to troublemakers, while granting them (with interest!) to those who are compliant to their demands. These loans are ultimately under the juristiction of such New World Order entities as the Federal Reserve Board, the Bank for International Settlements, the World Bank, European Monetary Institute, and the World Trade Organization, among others. The United Nations is also fighting for the ability to levy a "World tax" not only on certain "wealthy" nations, but also on individuals as well. Proceeds will be used to pay for a variety of U.N., World Bank, and IMF programs. Thanks a lot!

*9.* Become more influential on a daily basis with the establishment of corporate farms (as opposed to individually owned ones), and their dominance of meat packing and processing plants.

*10.* Manipulate agricultural statistics to paint whatever picture they deem necessary, thus never allowing us to truly see where we stand. (Read George Orwell's _Animal Farm_ to understand how numbers are continually used to deceive people.)

*11.* Use satellite technology to monitor the farms and fields.

*12.* Develop weather modification.

*13.* Ship American food overseas, thus raising prices domestically.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 5, 2006)

The Controllers have taken almost complete control of the World's food supply.

To really gain control of the food chain, one needs to start at the crux of it all - with the seeds. This is how the cowardly clandestine shadow-dwellers have ultimately decided to control the World's food supply.

Instead of a traditional farmer taking the seeds that he got from his current crop and saving them to be used the following year, now we have hybrid seeds that have been introduced to the farming industry over the years which produce stronger, higher-yielding crops. Over time, farmers didn't see the need to save the "old" traditional seeds and became reliant upon the genetically altered hybrids. Of course, the patents and ownership of these seeds are in the hands of those companies listed earlier -- the Monopolists.

Ken Corbitt stated in the August/September 1994 issue of _Nexxus_ Magazine that "total control of the World's seeds and ultimately the survival of mankind itself is now in the hands of an elite cartel of multinational corporations."

What makes this scenario even more terrifying is an earlier mentioned entity called "The Terminator Gene", which is a "bio-engineered element that mutates a seed's genetic structure, rendering the seed barren and unable to reproduce itself."

In other words, the altered seed will produce a crop -- but only for one year -- and will not reproduce again the following year! Thus, in order to get new seeds, the farmer must go to the corporation that owns the patents on the transformed, genitically altered seeds. These seeds only produce one-time because of the built in "Terminator Gene" that gives all control to those who own the patents.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 5, 2006)

Here's the trade-off: farmers are sold high-tech seeds that are sure to produce high-volume crops and can easily stave-off diseases. In return, they have to go back to their seed companies EVERY year and buy more seeds rather than stockpile them because of the internalized terminator gene.  Can you see how this situation places every farmer on the planet in a perilous position? What if they do something to enrage the powers-that-be, or buck the system? What happens? Those in control simply refuse to sell them more seed! Don't ya just love the Controllers, and how they always have _our_ best interests in mind? To create further dilemmas, the Plant Breeders' Right Act states that anyone who breaches these patents or refuses to pay royalties on them could face a six month prison term and/or a $250,000 fine.

Geri Guidetti, in a July/August 1998_ Jubilee_ newspaper article entitled, "Seed Terminator and Mega-Merger Threaten Food and Freedom" says, "Never before has man created such an insidiously dangerous, far-reaching and potentially "perfect" plan to control the livelihoods, food supply, and even survival of all Humans on the planet." She continues her article by declaring, "Widespread Global adoption of the newly patented Terminator Technology will ensure absolute dependence of farmers on multinational corporations."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2006)

Jim Hightower, former Texas Secretary of Agriculture, adds, "In their latest scheme, Government scientists and corporate profiteers have teamed up to mess up one of Nature's basics: seeds. The geniuses at USDA have used our tax dollars to develop a seed that will not germinate when replanted. Who would want such non-germinating seeds? The seed corporations, of course, since it means every farmer in the World would have to come to them to buy new seeds."

So, what does this all mean? In simplest terms, the Terminator Gene has now placed total control of the World's food supply into the hands of the New World Order. It's that plain and simple. To show the dangers of this situation, here are a few quotes from Government officials that will reinforce the points made here. They will also show the true aims of the New World Order, and how farmers in the future will be seen as nothing more than serfs, peasants, and sharecroppers. In addition, the very survival of our race is now in the hands of a few devils who truly don't give a care about our welfare.

If we don't buckle to their demands and act as they wish us to act (ultimately to be implanted with microchips), they could conceivably cut off our food supply and starve us to death. If this ever happens, we need to ask ourselves a question: who will keep getting food and continue to live a life of leisure -- us, or them?

And just remember, the New World Order isn't right around the corner. It's already here! Are you ready to welcome it with open arms?


*Henry Kissinger, Former Secretary of State, at a Bilderberg meeting in the 1990's said:*

_"By controlling energy we can control nations, and by controlling food we can control individuals."_


*Pope John Paul II, as quoted by Father Malachi Martin, declared in Keys of this Blood:* 

_"By the end of this decade we will live under the first One World Government that has existed in the society of nations....a Government with absolute authority to declare the basic issues of Human survival and Human prosperity."_


*Al Gore, former Vice President:*

_"We're continuing to have our spy satellites in the sky: they're there to help us. What we're doing is mapping and monitoring the entire World, including every square inch of the United States."_


*Dwayne Andreas, Archer Daniels Midland Chairman, said:* 

_"People in the Midwest do not understand -- this is a Socialist country."_


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2006)

To reinforce the information above comes these quotes from people who are trying to expose the Controller's plans:


*Doctor Carroll Quigley wrote in Tragedy in Hope:*

"There does exist an international network whose aim is to create a World system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the World."


*Larry Bates wrote in The New Economic Disorder:* 

"I have said for many years that the term "New World Order" is merely a code word for one-World socialism, with an elite ruling class to govern the rest of us under their demonic system."


*John G. Gordon wrote in Veritas newspaper, July, 1996:* 

"Rules made by the World Trade Organization made it illegal for the United States to retain sufficient supplies of grain for emergencies. The U.S. was compelled to sell our grain reserves to the rest of the World. The sad reality of this is that Americans in the land of the free which feeds the World over 80% of its food could actually starve to death while the rest of the World eats."


*Congressman Louis McFadden, Chariman of the House Committee on Banking & Currency, in the 1940's said:*

"The Depression was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence. The International Bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair so that they might emerge the rulers of us all."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2006)

Finally, Lary Bates again tells us in _The New Economic Disorder_ about a visit that he had to the United Nations:

"I couldn't keep still any longer and I blurted out (intending to be facetious), "Why don't you just take everybody's money, checking accounts, savings accounts, bonds, real estate, and all their other assets and just put everything in one big pile and redistribute it to everybody in the World?"

"Our United Nations guide replied, "A very good idea -- it's what we are trying to do here."

In the same vein, former President Bill Clinton stated at a news conference in Argentina on September 19, 1997: "What I am promoting is the reorganization of the World."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 9, 2006)

As I mentioned before, The Controllers are the ones responsible for releasing the AIDS virus on the Human population.  They've killed millions of people already.  Do you think they give a damn about you or me?

Something that all people should be aware of, is that AIDS was created in 1974 at Fort Detrick, Maryland, which is now called NCI - The National Cancer Institute. Officially, it was called the Fort Detrick Biological Warfare Center, which was an integral part of the National Cancer Institute.

The AIDS virus was developed under the supervision of a CIA program called MK-NAOMI by the SOD - Special Operations Division -- of the Army. 

Ok so now that you know where AIDS was originally created, now it's important to know why it was created.

There are a few reasons actually. You have to understand that back in the mid-to-late 60's, The Controllers realized that ever since the end of World War 2, the number of people on this Planet was skyrocketing. They called it the "Population Bomb". To find a way to equal out the increasing birth rates, these men came up with three ways to bolster the death rates.

The First was proposed in the infamous _Report from Iron Mountain_ that essentially said that World peace is not a desirable thing. So, instead of beginning another catastrophic war that would undoubtedly end in nuclear annihilation, they proposed a series of small, ongoing, isolated wars. In fact, did you guys know that at times there have been over 39 different wars taking place in the World? And it wasn't just coincidence. And you have to ask yourself, who are the people fighting these wars? The answer - young, foreign men that are most likely to reproduce.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 9, 2006)

So the Controllers knew that if they killed people off in a "quiet" way with wars in remote regions of the World, that they would have successfully taken the first steps towards lowering birth rates.

The other two solutions that the Controllers came up with for lowering the population of the World were abortion and as i mentioned before the creation of the infectious disease called AIDS.

War, abortion, and disease. The Controllers methods for population control. Decrease the birth rate and increase the death rate. Thats what they were aiming for. All managed by the Controllers like a game of chess.

So the ironic part is that the AIDS virus was created by cancer researchers working in biological warfare research. 

But first lets get back to the Controllers reasons for creating it. The Population problem. The first study of this problem actually took place in 1957 in Huntsville, Alabama. A group of scientists met there and came up with a rudimentary plan called "Alternative 3". Eleven years later, in 1968, there was a Club of Rome study on how to limit population growth. They called this plan "Global 2000", and one of the prominent people in attendance was Doctor Aurelio Peccei, who founded the Club of Rome. He said that a microbe should be developed that attacks the Human immune system. Not only that, but he also suggested that a cure should be developed to counteract the disease. Around the same time, the Bilderbergs commissioned the Haig-Kissinger Depopulation Policy, which again focused on methods of keeping population growth to a minimum.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 9, 2006)

It's very important to see how all the pieces of the puzzle fall into place. 

If someone were to ever take a look at the Congressional House Bill 15090, they would find out that it relates to funding, or appropriations , for the Department of Defense in the fiscal year 1970.

You would also see words such as "91st Congress", "First Session", "June 19th, 1969," "Hearings before a Subcommittee of the Committee of Appropriations," "House of Representatives," and "Budget - $10 million." This Bill helped fund what would eventually become project MK-NAOMI , where the DOD asked for and received 10 million dollars. 

You see, there was a man named Dr. Donald MacArthur who was the Deputy Director of DOD's Research and Technology Division. He's the one who provided the outline for this project that would be carried out by a small group of scientists. MacArthur testified before the House Committee in 1969 in hopes of producing a new virus or bacteria that would attack and destroy the body's immune system. They called this a "Refractory Virus."

Refractory is just another way of saying resistant. It means a germ that will resist the body's own natural defense system. If you think about it, what better way is there to "acquire" an immune deficiency than to have it deliberately put there? And the Controllers knew this.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 9, 2006)

*Also, if someone were to ever read the Congressional House Bill 15090, they would also find this statement written into it:*

_"Molecular Biology is a field that is advancing very rapidly, and eminent biologists believe that within a period of five to ten years it would be possible to produce a synthetic biological agent, an agent that does not naturally exist and for which no natural immunity could have been aquired."_


*Below that statement there is a section entitled, "Synthetic Biological Agents". In this section MacArthur reveals that:*

_ "It is a highly controversial issue, and there are many who believe that such research should not be undertaken lest it lead yet to another method of massive killing of large populations."_


*The report continues with:*

_"Within the next five to ten years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective-micro-organism which would differ in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organism. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious agents."_


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 9, 2006)

*Another source for people to take a look at to prove that AIDS was deliberately created by the Controllers would be to check out the World Health Bulletin Volume 47:257-63, dated 1972, which states that:*

_"An attempt should be made to see if viruses can in fact exert selective effects on immune functions. The possibility should be looked into that the immune response to the virus itself may be impaired of the infecting virus damages, more or less selectively on the cell responding to the virus."_


*Also included in this bulletin is a statement relating to the fact that there were members of the W.H.O. (World Health Organization), who wanted to make a virus that would selectively destroy the T cell system. The statement reads:*

_"An attempt should be made to ascertain whether viruses can in fact exert selective effects on immune function, e.g., by.....affecting T cell function as opposed to B cell function. The possibility should also be looked into that the immune response to the virus itself may be impaired if the infecting virus damages more or less selectively the cells responding to the viral antigens."_


So basicly, this is PROOF that the World Health Organization was looking into the possibility of creating a virus that _selectively_, thats the key word....selectively destroys the T cell system of Human Beings.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 10, 2006)

The AIDS virus wasn't an accident. It was deliberately created, and the World Health Organization was one of the agencies that asked for the production of the virus. And this happened in 1972, which was the same year that the DOD made another request of Congress by coming right out and asking for the funds to produce....in their own words, "a virus that selectively destroys the cells responsible for processing the virus." Did you notice the use of the word "select" again?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 10, 2006)

The use of the word "select" is an important thing to remember because in 1972, the World Health Organization chose a few geographical sites that they wanted to target with a smallpox vaccine.

The sites that the WHO chose are Uganda and Central Africa, plus Haiti and Brazil. All of these places had huge outbreaks of AIDS, didn't they? And Africa was practicly decimated by AIDS. But before I post about that, lets continue with the timeline.

Since the Controllers wanted both the death rate to increase and the birth rate to decrease, guess what happened in 1973? Abortion was legalized in the United States. You see, the big Club of Rome meeting that I mentioned earlier took place in 1968 where an overall plan was set in motion to achieve their objectives. Two years later, in 1970, Gloria Steinem co-founded the Women's Action Alliance, which was the beginning of the modern-day Women's Liberation Movement. Then, lo and behold, in 1973, the green light was given to abortion. It all fits into place quite nicley, don't you think?

It's crazy to realize how easily the Women of our World have been duped by the Controllers. Not that guys haven't too, but damn. Killing your own babies for them? Kinda makes you think....


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 10, 2006)

So in 1974, an alarming warning was given by the National Academy of Sciences. They recommended that, "scientists throughout the World join members of their committee in voluntarily deferring experiments linking animal viruses."

Just keep that little tidbit of information in mind for a little while. It's important.

In the meantime, the actual AIDS virus was created in 1974 at Fort Detrick, and by 1977, the World Health Organization staged the first catastrophic act of disseminating the virus into the Population.

How did they do it? The W.H.O. went into Africa and spread the virus through a series of smallpox vaccinations.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 10, 2006)

Thats right folks! Smallpox vaccinations. 

Let me guess...some of you might be asking yourselves, "Whatever happened to the Green Monkey theory?" You know, the one about the monkey that bit an African man on his ass, and that's how the disease was started. Hmmm, I wonder who started that rumor. Could it have been.....the Controllers?

Anyways, you guys don't seriously believe that theory do you? I hope not because it's one of the biggest hoaxes and the biggest LIES of all-time. Yeah, according to their story, a green monkey bit an African man on the ass; then this man had sex with someone and passed on the disease. Then that person had sex with someone else and spread the disease. But simultaneous to this "event", AIDS is also breaking out in Brazil, Haiti, other parts of Africa, and the United States. What were those green monkeys doing, flying around the Globe with jet packs on their backs?

How many people even know what a green monkey is? If this monkey DID bite a man on the ass, it's still statistically impossible for the disease to spread so exponentially and to reach such epidemic proportions in so many places around the Globe...all from a simple monkey bite. If people would ever look at the numbers, they would see that it was disseminated around the World, proving that the disease was deliberately spread rather than just happening "by accident" as the result of a monkey bite.

Another interesting note is that if someone was to ever take a look at the gene structure of a green monkey, they would discover that it is genetically impossible to transfer AIDS from a monkey to a man by natural means.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

Did you guys know that in Africa as opposed to this country, AIDS is largely a heterosexual disease?

What does that mean?

It means that the virus can be pinpointed....or at least its dissemination....to very SELECT audiences. In fact, in the early days of the AIDS catastrophe, certain groups of people were targeted to be the recipients of this virus. And at least in Africa, the whole thing was run by the World Health Organization.

However, in the United States there was something called "Operation Firm Hand" that was administered by the National Institute of Health and the Centers for Disease Control.

And for those of you wondering what "Operation Firm Hand" was all about....please allow me to spill the beans again.

You see, before 1978, there was no such thing as Aids in the United States. Then, in November of 1978, an experimental Hepatitis B vaccine was introduced to New York City. The word was put out that this free vaccine was available at a local blood bank headed by Dr. W. Szmuness.

Dr. W. Szmuness was a Polish doctor that immigrated to this country in 1969, and he later became the head of the New York City blood bank where the vaccine was administered. But what does a blood bank have to do with AIDS you might be asking? Well you see thats where the Hepatitis B vaccine was administered, but of course it wasn't given to just anyone. The participants had to fill out a detailed-questionnaire. But I'll get into that here in a second.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

Ok so in regards to the "questionnaires" that I was talking about, they were created for one group and one group only, and can you guys guess who it was? Gay, non-monogamous men between the ages of 20 and 40. Ring a bell? Another big rumor that was started was that Gay men created the Aids virus through their butt-f!cking. Well I'm here to tell every single one of you...thats another MAJOR LIE. Gay people have been arround for millennia, perhaps not in the public eye, but I guarantee you that AIDS was not around when the first two Gay people had sex with eachother. 

So anyways...the blood bank wanted Gay men. And in all, they wanted between 1,040 and 1,083 gay men to be inoculated with this "vaccine". I feel very sorry for the men that signed up for this treatment, because they had no clue what they were getting themselves into. 

You also have to remember what the times were back then. It was the late 1970's, and the concept of lethal sex disease hadn't even really been heard of. I mean for crying out loud, you had clubs like Studio 54, cocaine, and even gay bathhouses.

The fact is, people screwed like crazy back in those days. And then, in 1979 and 1980, these same "vaccination" programs were repeated in Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, St. Louis, and Denver. Now, if you take only the New York City men who participated in this program - approximately 1,000 of them - and figure they had 50 different sex partners over the next few years - what do you come up with? 50,000. Thats right. And say these 50,000 men had 50 different sex partners. What do you come up with? A quarter of a million. Now multiply 250,000 by all the other cities that I just mentioned, plus throw in all the junky intravenous drug users, and what do you get? 

AN AIDS EPIDEMIC!


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

Also, did you guys know that by 1984, the CDC did a report on the New York City men that received this inoculation, and they found that 64% of them had either contracted AIDS or had already died from it? Well it's true, and it's truly sickening.

After that, all of the sudden any further statistics mysteriously became "unavailable". I'll bet  if they were found though, the number could be 100% just a few years later. 

So think about this. If you drove up to the Centre Community Hospital and asked them, "If you had a vaccination program, say for the flu, and six years after it was administered 64% of the people that received it were infected with a lethal, incurable disease, what would you think?" They'd flip out.

Now I want you all to take this information and compare it to the Green Monkey theory or any other monkey theory for that matter. Which one seems more plausible when viewed in terms of an exponential explosion?

It's a downright crime!


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## dilloduck (Jul 11, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Also, did you guys know that by 1984, the CDC did a report on the New York City men that received this inoculation, and they found that 64% of them had either contracted AIDS or had already died from it? Well it's true, and it's truly sickening.
> 
> After that, all of the sudden any further statistics mysteriously became "unavailable". I'll bet  if they were found though, the number could be 100% just a few years later.
> 
> ...



We know all this stuff already----we're just seeing how much has leaked out and to who.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

There is a researcher named Waves Fores who wrote an article called "Designer Diseases: AIDS as Biological and Psychological Warfare". At one point in this column he said, "Another indication that AIDS has multiple origin points is that the 14-month doubling time of the disease cannot nearly account for the current number of cases if we assume only a small number of initial infections starting in the late 1970's."

So people..isn't it clear here? This whole cover story about AIDS starting at one specific point is....Bullshi!

Thats right. Because a very organized effort was behind it. And by 1981, AIDS had become part of the popular consciousness. When it was never there before! At first, due to the nature of who it infected in this country, the disease was originally called "Gay Cancer". From 1979 to 1981, the scientific community labeled it GRID - Gay Related Immune Deficiency. That was actually the first official name for AIDS.


But to keep the timeline going....


*In 1983, a New York Congressman named Theodore Weiss said:*

_ "As far-fetched as it may seem, given the attitudes toward homosexuals and homosexuality by some segments of society, the possible utilization of biological weapons must be seriously considered."_


Now that's a United States Congressman saying this! In 1984, then, the AIDS virus was officially "discovered" by Dr. Robert Gallo. 

And people should know that there was even a newspaper article printed in the _London Times_ on May 11, 1987 titled - "Smallpox Vaccine Triggered AIDS." Of course, not surprisingly, this information never filtered into the American mainstream media.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> We know all this stuff already----we're just seeing how much has leaked out and to who.



Funny you should mention that. Whether you were serious or not.

I've met my fair share of of x-soldiers in my life, and some of the ones that served during the time that AIDS was created have all but admitted to me that AIDS was created by the Government.

I even had one guy tell me that he was "scared of going to Levenworth" or something like that. So he didn't want to dig too deep into his memory if you get what I'm saying.

However, I find that just because certain soldiers signed contracts which forbid them from exposing certain Government operations, that it doesn't matter anyways, because it's usually not the soldiers who end up leaking this information to the public, because it's usually people who never served in the military at all.


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## dilloduck (Jul 11, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Funny you should mention that. Whether you were serious or not.
> 
> I've met my fair share of of x-soldiers in my life, and some of the ones that served during the time that AIDS was created have all but admitted to me that AIDS was created by the Government.
> 
> ...



Wierd that the controllers would let all this info out ain't it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

Here are a few links:


Project MK: NAOMI

http://www.thc-ministry.org/wwwboard/messages/148.html

Dr. Donald MacArthur

http://www.konformist.com/1999/aids/manmade.txt
http://witewillo.homestead.com/files/Aids_...tured_Virus.htm
http://www.whale.to/m/scott7.html

H.B.15090

http://killtown.911review.org/aids.html

and World Health Bulletin Volume 47:257-63

http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/AIDS.htm

enjoy!


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Wierd that the controllers would let all this info out ain't it.



lol. They didn't have a choice in the matter.

By all the laws that help hold the Universe together, what goes around comes around.


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## dilloduck (Jul 11, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> lol. They didn't have a choice in the matter.
> 
> By all the laws that help hold the Universe together, what goes around comes around.



Controllers are bound by the laws of nature ?  naaaaaaaaaaa


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 11, 2006)

Or perhaps you would prefer this one?

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.


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## dilloduck (Jul 11, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Or perhaps you would prefer this one?
> 
> For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.



cool--we can just chill then and wait for the controllers' Karma to catch up with them! (and I'm saving all my watermelon seeds)


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 12, 2006)

The creation of AIDs was a Bilderberg-inspired project that utilized the Department of Defense in conjunction with the CIA's "Project MK-NAOMI" under the auspices of the World Health Organization. What these folks did was come up with a list of "undesirables" that needed to be eliminated. Can you guys guess who these "undesirables" were at that time? Blacks, Junkies, and Homosexuals. Oh and throw in a few Hispanics and Orientals, and you have a pretty good idea of who they found to be "undesirable".

Many of you might be thinking....wasn't there any other way? 

Do you think these people care? Come on. The beauty of AIDS for them was that it accomplished their goal of population reduction by targeting specific racial and ethnic groups through bio-weaponry. Before AIDS, bio-weaponry was indiscriminate, killing at random. But once they came up with a more intelligent "Agent", it became much easier to target specific groups for elimination.  

They could infect whoever they wanted to.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 12, 2006)

Many people don't really understand still how exactly AIDS was created. They know that it WAS created. But they don't understand how.

Well, to start:

AIDS is a form of viral cancer that resulted from the combination of two retroviruses - a bovine lukemia virus and a sheep visna virus. If these two viruses are combined, and then injected into a Human culture, what you get is the first retrovirus known to Mankind.

There were two doctors. Robert Strecker, famous for his "Strecker Memorandum", and Alan Cantwell - who were curious about this virus, and so they punched the following words into their computer - bovine visna - and guess what it came up with? The computer spit out reams of information that described a virus which was IDENTICLE to the AIDS virus!

For example:

If you take the bovine visna virus and compare it with the AIDS virus, you will see that it has exactly the same morphology (shape), the exact same molecular weight, the same magnesium dependency; it has the ability to kill cells; it has the same T cell tropism (it attacks T cells); and it has the same exact characteristics in cattle that AIDS does in Humans. It also produces a disease in Cows, characterized by initial lymphomamply within a few weeks of initial infection, followed by the production of antibodies against that virus, and subsequently, 5-7 years later, the cow dies of a wasting disease - an immune deficiency.

AIDS is a horrible disease. Besides being Man-Made it also has the ability to spread extremely quickly. To transfer the disease, all you need is a highly concentrated exchange of bodily fluids between two people. One who is infected and one who isn't. And Bam....somebody's got AIDS. And yes, even just injecting a dirty needle into your arm gives you a much higher chance of contracting AIDS.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 12, 2006)

Think of all the millions of people who have contracted AIDS over the years, and also how many died from it. Then, think of all the famous people who have lost their lives due to AIDS. They come from every walk of life. There are sports figures who have contracted it, people like Magic Johnson - there have been musicians like Freddy Mercury, Liberace, there have been movie stars like Rock Hudson, there have been artists like Robert Mapplethorpe, plus there have been dancers, theatre stars, and countless others. 

AIDS has hit every group imaginable. Except for one of course. And guess which group that is? High ranking politicians and World leaders.

Now think about that for a second. Try and name one top-level politician who has ever died from AIDS. You can't do it, can you? And why do you think that is? Is it because they're so much more virtuous, monogamous, and faithful than everyone else in the World? 

Think about all that for awhile. And then when you are done.....ask yourself this simple question. What are these Monsters doing to us?


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## dilloduck (Jul 12, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Many people don't really understand still how exactly AIDS was created. They know that it WAS created. But they don't understand how.
> 
> Well, to start:
> 
> ...



Kill the controllers !!!:firing:


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 12, 2006)

"Killing" may not be the solution to the problem. We can bring these people down in other ways.

But by all means, if it comes down to life or death, kill as many of them as you would like. I've always believed that Defense is the best Offense. Self Defense is Self Defense.

Let someone come at me for my Life. They won't take it without a fight.


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## dilloduck (Jul 12, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> "Killing" may not be the solution to the problem. We can bring these people down in other ways.
> 
> But by all means, if it comes down to life or death, kill as many of them as you would like. I've always believed that Defense is the best Offense. Self Defense is Self Defense.
> 
> Let someone come at me for my Life. They won't take it without a fight.



Glad to hear you're going to put up a fight !


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 16, 2006)

Now it's time to dab a little bit into FreeMasons and other Dark Societies. It's important that people understand that Secrecy is almost NEVER a good thing. And that one of Humanity's worst SINS is Secrecy. "Sins" meaning rebellion against the Father. 

To keep secrets relating to knowledge from another Human Being is the same as keeping a secret from God! And God can see everything, so why would someone hide it from their fellow Brothers and Sisters?

FreeMason's fall into this category. They are HIDERS of Knowledge and not keepers of knowledge. It all boils down to Secrecy in the end. And Everything bad that goes along with it. IE. Jealousy. Greed. Envy. Ect. Secrecy likes to fit in with words like those. And for a good reason.

Anyways, before I get into the FreeMason's and such, first...let's examine just how many of our Presidents within the last 20 years have been FreeMasons. The results might end up shocking you.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 16, 2006)

*1977-1981* James E. Carter, 39th. President of the United States (D) Unknown Mason status. Was also a member of the Anti-American organization known as the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR). In 1978, The Club of Rome commissioned Cyrus Vance, Jimmy Carter's Secretary of State to write The Global 2000 Report. This is a Draconian plan to reduce the world's population by means of wars, famine, diseases, and plagues. 

The HIV virus and the Aids epidemic became a part of this plan. They also commissioned Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carters National Security Advisor, (who also with David Rockefeller formed The Trilateral Commission in 1973), to write The Technetronic Era. 

This is a post-industrial zero growth plan designed in part to cripple U.S. industry in order to prepare us for the New World Order. Vice President Walter Mondale 1977-1981. Confirmed Illuminati puppet, of Orville Freeman of the Satanic Illuminati. (Fritz Springmeier, _The Illuminati Bloodlines_) Walter Mondale later enjoyed the status of being the only U.S. Senator on the Trilateral Commission.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 16, 2006)

*1981-1989* Ronald Reagan, 40th. President of the United States (R) Confirmed Mason. (New World Order: _The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies_, William T. Still, pg. 21) Vice President George Bush,1981-1989. Confirmed Mason. The President of the United States of America, under the Emigration Control Act of 1986, Section 100, has the authority to deem whatever type of identification is necessary whether it be an invisible tattoo or electronic media under the skin. 

_The Microchip and the Mark of the Beast Writer_ Roger Morris (author of "Partners In Power") and Sally Denton wrote a well-researched article entitled The Crimes of Mena This story, based on Barry Seal's surviving records, had been fact checked and cleared for publication by the legal staff of the Washington Post, when it was suddenly spiked without explanation by Managing Editor Bob Kaiser, a fellow Skull & Bones alumni with ex CIA chief George Bush. 

Note: Eleanor Roosevelt (who was involved in numerous communist organizations and was an actual card carrying member of the American communist party) was a close friend and confidant to Ronald Reagan's mother. (Fritz Springmeier, _The Illuminati Bloodlines_) Reagan was also a member of the all-male ultra-exclusive Bohemian Club to which every Republican President since Herbert Hoover has belonged. 

Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and Secretary of State George Schultz were both former executives with Bechtel. 

Note: 1980s under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush the U.S. government knowingly gave direct aid to genocidal campaigns that killed tens of thousands of Native American Indian people in Guatemala and elsewhere. The pattern holds. (For example, see Mireya Navarro, "Guatemalan Army Waged 'Genocide,' New Report Finds," NEW YORK TIMES February 26, 1999,. 

The TIMES described "torture, kidnapping and execution of thousands of civilians" -- most of them Indians -- a campaign to which the U.S. government contributed "money and training." See http://www.nytimes.com/ Descriptor terms: Columbus; native people, U.S.; genocide; Spain; England; Indian policy;

Alberto Rivera, who was greatly hated by the Vatican because he was a very high Jesuit who came out and, in the late 60s, about 1969, exposed the power of Rome in the ecumenical movement, that Rome controlled Kathryn Kuhlman; that Rome controlled Billy Graham; that Rome controlled, virtually, our government. Reagan, when he took the Oath of Office, faced the obelisk, indicating that this country will ultimately have a concordat. So, Alberto Rivera converted to Christ, wonderfully, and he started a ministry called The Anti-Christ Information Center, out of Los Angeles. The Black Pope

See also. Ronald Reagan's Obsession With An Alien Invasion

Note: Gen. Earl Wheeler (Illuminati Family) and his brother Leo Wheeler, a Grande Master of the Illuminati are secret Satanists and also 33Â° Freemasons. Leo Wheeler, by virtue of his Grande Master status in the satanic hierarchy has been able to visit the Dulce, New Mexico underground facility. 

The route he used was to fly in, and then the last stretch is done in a black limousine. Various people in the Dulce area have occasionally spotted these VIP black limousines. The Wheeler family has a long history of involvement with Satanism, and its genealogical history goes back to the House of David.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 16, 2006)

*1989-1993* George H. W. Bush, 41st. President of the United States (R) Confirmed Mason. Also a Skull & Bones member, and of the Anti-American organization known as the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR), and The Trilateral Commission. 

Ex Director of the CIA. George Bush is a recent member of The Order Of The Garter (which is the core leader of The Committee of 300) Bush was knighted by Queen Elizabeth II who is the leader of the Order of The Garter, on December 20, 1993, as a Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honorable Order of the Bath. 

This was for his leadership in the Gulf War, when he sent American solders to die for England's interest of their petroleum in Kuwait. General Colin Powell and General Norman Schwarzkopf were given also lower order of knighthoods. Was also a member of the all-male ultra-exclusive Bohemian Club to which every Republican President since Herbert Hoover has belonged. Secret Societies, Bohemian Club Vice President James D. Quayle III. The Order of Skull and Bones * The Bush Body Count

(The Masonic imperialism of the Franklin Pierce administration lives on as the romantic, elite legend of the Eastern Establishment. They celebrate that legend in the marriage of President Pierce's blood relative Barbara Pierce to George Bush, whose imperial ideas are rooted in the events of the 1850s.) The Scottish Rite's KKK Project

Documents exist showing the Bush family is directly in business with the Queen of England through her bank, Coutts Bank, London. [See our prior series, Greenspan Aids and Bribes Bush.] Since the War of 1812, the British have vowed to take back this continent as a British puppet colony. William Rockefeller Clinton was sent by the Rhodes Trust to be educated at Oxford. 

The Elder Bush, many do not know, for the decade of the 1980s, was the PRIVATE business partner of Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi strongman. Together, they shared billions and billions of dollars of kick-backs and "protection" funds, from the weak oil sheikdoms of the Persian Gulf. A little known Chicago federal lawsuit was brought, in October, 1990, during the lead-up to the shooting war, to keep concealed the related bank records showing the clandestine partnership. 

Writer Roger Morris (author of "Partners In Power") and Sally Denton wrote a well-researched article entitled The Crimes of Mena This story, based on Barry Seal's surviving records, had been fact checked and cleared for publication by the legal staff of the Washington Post, when it was suddenly spiked without explanation by Managing Editor Bob Kaiser, a fellow Skull & Bones alumni with ex CIA chief George Bush. 

In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now entered into a New World Order. Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an American Brotherhood of Death Society, the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood of Death Societies (Bill Cooper, Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; plus Anthony Sutton, Introduction To The Order, p.7). SATANIC ACTIVITIES OF SECRET SOCIETIES.

U.S. President Bush and Soviet President Gorbachev arrived yesterday on this Mediterranean island for a summit conference beginning today during which both hope to start the search for a New World Order." - _New York Times _December 1, 1989

"What I found at the PIT plant was very heinous. I found that a strain of hydrogen cyanide called Prussian Blue was being tested on gas mask filters more than 1 year prior to the Persian Gulf War. This information was known to the President of the United States, George Bush. It was arranged through Trevor Armbrister, a CIA asset and a Senior Editor of Reader's Digest, to fly me to the steps of the White House. Time does not permit me to tell my story, but the information that I want to get out to the American people is that the Gulf War illnesses are actually communicable diseases." 

"The microbes will live almost indefinitely, but for a minimum of seven years. It's on the gas masks, the clothing, the weapons -- any of the materials brought back from the Gulf War. I have reports from several different states where civilians that bought some of the clothing went home and wore them, and now the entire family is in wheel chairs; there have been some deaths as a result of this." 

It is no small coincidence that George Bush and James Baker, as well as others, were stockholders in the very same biotechnology companies that were responsible for the biowarfare weapons used in the Gulf that caused this worldwide plague to begin, is it? The Resnick Interview with Peter Kawaja

Note: (George Bush's father) lost all his money in the 1929 stock market crash, the Harriman's again came to financially help Prescott Bush back on his feet. During the 1920s, the W. Averell Harriman, Prescott Bush, Fritz Thyssen and Friedrich Flick created several entitles to help finance Hitler and to produce the weapons Hitler would need to fight W.W. II.. 

One of these companies was the German Steel Trust (in German called Vereinigte Stahlwerke. This company produced 35% of Nazi Germanys explosives, 50.8% of Germany's pig iron, 38.5% of Nazi Germany's galvanized steel, 36% of Germany's heavy plate, 22.1 % of Germany's wire, and many other things essential for Hitler, if it had not been Harriman, and Bush's money helping Thyssen who was Hitler's major backer, Hitler would never had been able to have launched W.W. II. Thyssen even wrote a book in 1930. I paid Hitler (now rare) telling about how he financed Hitler and the Nazis beginning in Oct. 1923. Hitler was of the Rothschild bloodline.

1990, April 14. _New York Times_ quotes George Bush as stating, "Lets forgive the Nazi war criminals."


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## Annie (Jul 16, 2006)

I feel so much more enlightened now. Any moment I expect to feel the Stepford wives type of lockstep to be engaging...


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 16, 2006)

*1993-2000* William J. Clinton, 42nd. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Mason. Clinton, A Rhodes Scholar, a CFR member, a Trilateral Commission member and a Bilderberger participant. 

He joined the Council on Foreign Relations in 1989, attended a Bilderberg meeting in 1991 and was a current member of the Trilateral Commission at the time of his nomination. Pam Harriman is the person behind Bill Clinton. She is tied in with the Collins of the satanic group Hell Fire Club. Wife Hillary is known to practice Shamanism witchcraft. (Fritz Springmeier, _The Illuminati Bloodlines_) Vice President Al Gore 1993-2000. Confirmed Mason. Bill Clintons Criminal Background 

... President Clinton is a Bilderberger, a Senior DeMolay (Freemason), and a member of both the CFR and the Trilateral Commission.

A picture exists, made by an undercover team of the Drug Enforcement Administration, showing George W. Bush snorting cocaine with his buddy William Rockefeller Clinton. You have been asleep, if you did not know that Clinton and the Bush family are cronies and get together at old man Bush's mansion in Kennebunkport, Maine. The picture has long been suppressed although in the possession of top news people of the major news networks. The Gore campaign reportedly has for some time had the picture. [They would like to show George W. but not Clinton.] http://www.rense.com/general5/elect.htm

Writer Roger Morris (author of "Partners In Power") and Sally Denton wrote a well-researched article entitled The Crimes of Mena This story, based on Barry Seal's surviving , had been fact checked and cleared for publication by the legal staff of the Washington Post, when it was suddenly explanation by Managing Editor Bob Kaiser, a fellow Skull & Bones alumni with ex CIA chief George Bush. Clinton is responsible for the following executive orders:

13010: This Executive order is entitled Critical Infrastructure Protection. It established a commission made up of history of the United States when an emergency is declared. This commission includes the heads of:

1. The Department of the Treasury. 2. The Department of Justice. 3. The Department of Defense. 4. The Department of Commerce. 5. The Department of Transportation. 6. The Department of Energy. 7. The CIA. 
8. The FBI. 9. FEMA

Federal Register - Executive Orders - William J. Clinton

A Quote to Remember: "Yes, the president should resign. He has lied to the American people, time and time again, and betrayed their trust. He is no longer an effective leader. Since he has admitted guilt, there is no reason to put the American people through an impeachment. He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out his term; the only possible solution is for the president to save some dignity and resign." Bill Clinton, 1974, commenting on Richard Nixon. 

If you go into the presidentâs office at Georgetown, you will see a picture of Bill Clinton, kneeling at the grave of Timothy Healy [past president of Georgetown], while the present president, Donovan, who is on the Walt Disney Board, is standing behind him.

Bill Clinton chose Patsy Thomasson - top lieutenant of convicted cocaine dealer Dan Lasater - to be his White House chief of personnel. English Reporter Reveals Depth of Media and Government Treachery

In September of 1996, President Clinton signed into law, the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. Buried at approximately page 650 of the new national Defense Bill, also known as Public Law 104-208, Part B, Title IV, the American public was given a national ID card. 

With no fanfare, no publicity and no scrutiny, the bill easily avoided the watchful eyes of even its most aggressive opponents. National ID Card Is Now Federal Law and Georgia Wants To Help Lead the Way The national ID became law in 1996 and will go in effect October 1, 2000, unless Congress repeals Section 656 (b) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. If the law is not changed, every state must meet certain unfunded federal mandates requiring the use of Social Security numbers, fingerprints, DNA, retina scans, and other "biometric" identifying information on all driver's licenses. Money Withheld for National I.D. Card

President Clinton and wife Hillary ordered the deaths of the Branch Dravidians. Military Unit Responsible at Waco

President Clinton, is "the most blood thirsty draft dodger in history." New World Order 

"By using the LEO satellites," he described, "you can disrupt the computers. You can stop that electronic ignition. It's all electronically based. You can interfere with it and stop it dead in it's tracks." Tomlin is risking legal action by the Pentagon for revealing top secret information. That's a risk he says he is willing to take because of the danger he believes has been caused by an out-of-control president. 

"The decisions he's making right now are totally illogical and irresponsible," said Tomlin about his concerns regarding Clinton. "Looking at the power and everything he's got at his finger tips. That's a dangerous situation for a spastic individual." Tomlin has maintained silence about the top secret program for many years, but now he feels compelled to speak out. Clinton's Secret War Games

WE SHALL RAISE THE RATE OF WAGES WHICH, HOWEVER, WILL NOT BRING ANY ADVANTAGE TO THE WORKERS, FOR, AT THE SAME TIME, WE SHALL PRODUCE A RISE IN PRICES OF THE FIRST NECESSARIES OF LIFE, ALLEGING THAT IT ARISES FROM THE DECLINE OF AGRICULTURE AND CATTLE-BREEDING: WE SHALL FURTHER UNDERMINE ARTFULLY AND DEEPLY SOURCES OF PRODUCTION, BY ACCUSTOMING THE WORKERS TO ANARCHY AND TO DRUNKENNESS AND SIDE BY SIDE THEREWITH TAKING ALL MEASURE TO EXTIRPATE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH ALL THE EDUCATED FORCES OF THE "GOYIM." _The Illuminati Protocols_

Update Note: A common practice among the top 13 Illuminati families is to have an important child secretly or quietly without fanfare, and adopt the child out to another family. The child then takes on another last name, which hides the genealogy, in the occult ceremonies, the biological parents will step forward. For instance, for Mothers of Darkness the biological father must impregnate the young daughter who is being initiated into the Mothers of Darkness. The first baby by the girl must come from her biological father and must be sacrificed by her to Satan. Many of the Illuminati children are adopted out, (in fact our President Clinton was). (Fritz Springmeier, The _Illuminati Bloodlines_)

Bill Clinton's chief campaign advisor James Carville is pictured ( in People's Magazine. p.50 ) wearing a pentagram in the middle of his forehead. Bill Clinton in his inaugural speech said, "This ceremony is held in the depth of winter. But, by the words we speak and the faces we show the world, we force the spring. 

Clinton repeated the words "we force the spring" later in the speech. That expression is a very unusual expression. To "force the spring" is witchcraft language in witchcraft and Satanism. Lucifer (Baal) rises from the underworld on May 1st (also known by the following list of names Beltaine, a major European holiday, Communism and the Illuminati's chief holiday, and Walpurgis). 

The May 1st rising brings forth the season of fertility, which the witches each year take credit for, by claiming that their magic rituals "force the spring." The ritual magic that "forces the spring" is done on 3 Sabbats-the first is Imbolg (also known by names: Candiemas by the Catholics and Ground Hog Day by common dupes); the second is the vernal equinox (Mar. 20) in which blood and sex rituals are carried out and the third is Beltaine (May 1) in which fire festivals are done. This is one of the fire festivals which people around the United States say that they have witnessed from a distance. Witches believe that on May 1st, the female force completes her takeover from the male force. 

In order for the female to overtake the male force, Clinton chose the position of Attorney General. The title "General" has a male connotation. All the rest of the cabinet members are called Secretaries which has a female connotation. 

The Attorney General position was to be given to a woman. But in order for the witchcraft ceremony and timing to be right, the woman couldn't take over until after Feb. 2, or Imbolg and there had to be 3 female candidates, from which one is traditionally picked by a witchcraft coven. This is why the selection of the Attorney General was not confirmed until Feb. 2. And sure enough all three candidates given by Bill Clinton were women, from which one was selected. 

Bill Clinton did indeed "force the spring"! Further, Clinton told us HOW he would "force the spring" in his inaugural speech. On the 666th word of his inauguration speech, Clinton launched into a sentence on sacrifice, "it will not be easy; it will require sacrifice. But it can be done, and done fairly, not choosing sacrifice for Its own sake, but for our own sake." Clinton gave the hand signal of Satanists at the end of his speech. And Newsweek Magazine headlined its story "New Age President Takes Office." (Jan. 25, 93) That Clinton would consider his Cabinet a coven is not so far fetched. 

Most of his cabinet tie in closely with the Illuminati. The Council on Foreign Relations is an upper level of the visible arm of the Illuminati. The Jan. 93 newsletter explained that the CFR was the equivalent of the 4Â° of the Bavarian Illuminati. Note, that many of these people do not realize the full Satanic implications of what they are in. If one reviews the various levels of the Bavarian Illuminati, you will realize that the process of corruption was gradual, and that the lower levels had no idea what they were really involved in, although some probably suspected what they were into. 

The basic ingredient of the lower levels is loyalty to their superiors, because they believe they are in the elite's organization. Consider, Clinton and his cabinet: Slick Willie Clinton â CFR TC (Trilateral Commission), Bldrbgr (Bilderberger participant), participant in various Illuminati front organizations such as DLC, Rhodes Scholar, wife Hillary is known to practice shamanism witchcraft. (Fritz Springmeier, _The Illuminati Bloodlines_)

Note: Attorney General Janet Reno murderer of innocent people at Waco, TX. The people at Waco believed that they were the true Jews and flew the Jewish flag at Waco, notice that Reno who is Jewish and was on the board of directors of the Jewish Illuminati Terrorist organization of the Anti-Defamation League could not stand the idea of Christians believing that they are the true Jews. See Janet Reno's quote on cults. Cultist Definition by Janet Reno, Attorney General USA

Hillary Clinton has been said to channel the spirits of the dead.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 16, 2006)

*December 13, 2000* - George Bush Jr. Becomes the 43rd President of the United States. Confirmed member Skull and Bones. George W. Admits to being a Member of The Skull and Bones to Time Magazine Also a member of the Council On Foreign Relations. Confirmed Mason. Bush is closely related to every European monarch on and off the throne -- including the King of Albania -- and has kinship with every member of Britain's royal family, the House of Windsor. 

He is a 13th cousin of Britain's Queen Mother, and of her daughter Queen Elizabeth and is a 13th cousin once removed of the heir to the throne, Prince Charles. Bush's family tree can be documented as far back as the early 15th century. He has a direct descent from Henry III and from Henry VIII's sister Mary Tudor, who was also the wife of Louis XI of France. He is also descended from Charles II of England.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 16, 2006)

*George W. Bush's Interview With* *Time Magazine*


"My Heritage Is Part of Who I Am" In conversation, Bush exudes both a folksy confidence and an eagerness to charm. In a recent 90-minute talk with managing editor Walter Isaacson, he discussed how his family affected his career. Posted July 30, 2000 4:15 p.m. ET From TIME magazine

*TIME:* You once said that to understand people you have to look at their family.

*Bush:* You look at his family and where he was raised.

*TIME:* So let's start with your grandfather Prescott Bush. He was a patrician Connecticut banker and Senator, part of the old-line Yankee Wasp establishment.

*Bush:* He was big, a very dignified person. When we went to dinner at his house, we wore a tie. I never wore a tie, only to church, barely. My dad would talk about my grandfather's lessonâ before you enter public service you go out and make some money and take care of your family. But my grandfather believed money wasn't how you measured your life. If you had money it came with an obligation to serve. He once said that the most important thing a person could do was public service.

*TIME:* Your father seemed torn between being a scion of this New England gentry and being the Texan that he cast himself as.

*Bush:* Someone once said of my dad that he got to Texas a little too late in life, he was already well bred. That wasn't the case with me!

*TIME:* But isn't there some of that old-line establishment blood left in you?

*Bush:* Not really. I'm not inhibited by class lines. I can meet and get comfortable with anyone. In fact, I really never noticed that social elite structure.

*TIME:* Never?

*Bush:* Well, I became aware, I guess, of some of this structure. But I didn't spend much time thinking about it. My grandparents were notâ they lived that life in Hobe Sound and Greenwichâ but they were humble people.

*TIME:* Humble?

*Bush:* I found them to be humble.

*TIME:* When did you decide to distance yourself from this background?

*Bush:* I don't know if it was a conscious decision. It's a world apart. Greenwich to Midland. I often say of the difference between me and Dad is that he went to Greenwich Country Day and I went to San Jacinto Junior High. In Midland there was no class structure.

*TIME:* But you sure shared a lot of the same upbringing: Andover, Yale, even Skull and Bones. Did you have any qualms, say, about joining an elite secret club like Bones?

*Bush:* No qualms at all. I was honored. I was fairly nonchalant. I didn't view it as a great heritage thing. I didn't take it all that seriously.

*TIME:* Demystify it a bit for those who might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral Commission. Did your father show up for your initiation, like your grandfather showed up for his?

*Bush:* Without revealing all the great secrets? I got a few of my old club mates who could demystify it right off the bat. My dad didn't tap me. Someone a year ahead of me tapped me. There was an entry celebration. I can't remember whether my dad showed up or not. I don't think so.

*TIME:* What was the most important thing about your family legacy?

*Bush:* The unconditional love I got from my family liberated me. It gave me a sense of security. We were all at a church in Maine recently and the preacher asked whether anyone in the congregation had a perfect family, and the only hand that went up without hesitation was Dad's. It helped Jeb and me not be afraid of defeat.

*TIME:* Your family legacy surely also pushed you into politics?

*Bush:* Yes, my heritage is part of who I am, and that certainly included politics. But my dad didn't take me in the backyard and hit a tackling dummy to make me a great tackler, and he also didn't do things to try to make me a politician.

*TIME:* When did you decide you wanted to go into politics?

*Bush:* I've been searching my mind for that because people keep questioning that. Up to age 18 never much. I was never a member of the Young Republican Club on campus. I was apolitical. My interest in politics was the result of carrying signs for Dad. I love campaigns. My decision to run came from being concerned about what was happening. In 1978, I was concerned about things like the natural-gas regulation, so I ran for Congress. I ran for Governor because I was concerned about what was happening to education. It took sparks like that to get me to run, not just that it was expected of me.

*TIME:* But surely it was also because it was bred into your bones?

*Bush:* I don't know. That's an interesting question. Perhaps. I didn't have this life plan. I wasn't trying to turn the DKE presidency into a political career. I didn't know what I wanted to be, and I tried a variety of different things, like working in the oil industry, in campaigns, in a poverty program. You don't have to go into politics to complete a legacy.

*TIME:* Some say you got more from your mother than your father.

*Bush:* Yes, I'm more like my mom sometimes. I'm quick with a quip. Dad gives me advice when I ask him for it, my mom when I don't. She can be blunt, like me. She says what she wants. My dad's always gracious.

*TIME:* You were elected Governor in 1994, the year your brother Jeb lost the Florida Governor's race. How did your family feel?

*Bush:* On the morning of my inauguration, my mother hands me this letter from Dad with a pair of his cufflinks. He called them his most treasured possession. They were the cufflinks his dad gave to him when he went off to war in 1943. At first I didn't think about the continuity, the grandfather part. A lot was going on. The main thing I thought was that it was from my dad. He was saying he was proud of me. But later I reread the letter and thought about it. It ended with, "Now it's your turn." It was a powerful moment.

*TIME:* That day your father told the press, "Our heads are in Texas, but our heart is in Florida." What do you think Jeb was feeling?

*Bush:* I remember at the inauguration Dad wiping a tear from his face and Jeb standing behind me looking pensive. He was the one supposed to win. I'm not sure what he was thinking. I suspect he thought about what might have been, what went wrong. And he doubled his thoughts about running again. Made up his mind he would have his own inaugural, and he did four years later. And he wasn't bitter or sour, because getting up after a loss and realizing that life goes on is part of the legacy we share. The same thing happened to me in my first race, and to my dad, and to my grandfather. I know Jeb well. He's a loving soul. It made him better, more determined to win next time. He converted to Catholicism, started an inner-city school in Miami, didn't let defeat keep him down.

*TIME:* How is Jeb different from you?

*Bush:* Taller! Well, we come from the same place. The same sense of love. But Jeb expresses himself differently. He's very sensitive. Quieter than me. We're both tough, but him in a different way. I'm quick with the quip, kind of sharp. Jeb tends to seem softer around the edges, but he's very smart and capable and beloved.

*TIME:* Didn't your mother consider Jeb the more natural politician?

*Bush:* I'm not sure. He's a good campaigner. I watched him work a strawberry festival with me, and I was proud. He worked it very hard and shook all the hands and was comfortable. People know whether you're comfortable with them. My mother can walk into a room and quiet everyone's nerves. She can relate. So can I. I like watching Jeb do that too.

*TIME:* Do you all ever discuss policy or politics?

*Bush:* Sometimes. Not often. Jeb's an e-mail person. He'll e-mail me ideas, forward me things. I don't initiate e-mail, and I keep my address secret, but I respond on e-mail, especially to him. He e-mailed me some thoughts on Elian Gonzalez. He counseled me early on about Mexico. He urged me to move beyond the normal business relationship and into the more cultural relationship.

*TIME:* If he had won first, would he be in your shoes now?

*Bush:* Probably. A little hard to tell.

*TIME:* Would that bother you?

*Bush:* Wouldn't bother me in the least. You play the hand you're dealt.

*TIME:* Do you think the Bush name helped get you where you are in politics?

*Bush:* It cuts both ways. Some folks will say, there's George and Barbara's son, he must be interesting, let me listen. Others may say he's not done anything in his life, just running on his daddy's name. It's a mixed blessing ... Well, to me it's not a mixed blessing. It's a great blessing to be raised by George and Barbara Bush. TIME: Do you hate the word dynasty?

*Bush:* No, don't hate it. But it's not really true. Dynasty means something inherited. Both Jeb and I know you don't inherit a vote. You have to win a vote. We inherited a good name, but you don't inherit a vote.

*TIME:* Your father once said of the Kennedys, wait until my boys get out there. How does your family compare to theirs?

*Bush:* I admired the Kennedy brothers. They set a tone. They were very powerful figures and built a legacy. Ted Kennedy, I know he's anathema to conservatives, but he's in the Senate serving and very professional.

*TIME:* One thing you seem to share with your mother is that sometimes you carry a grudge.

*Bush:* Yeah, I remember some things, like anyone else. I remember. But I don't go out of my way to seek revenge. In 1992, I got some things off my chest. I was a warrior for my dad. But I'm a pretty forgiving person. To be a successful Governor, I had to have been.

*TIME:* You sometimes seem deliberately anti-intellectual.

*Bush:* I know it comes across that way. I don't think it's fair. How can you say I'm an anti-intellectual when I'm sitting next to [former Stanford provost and Russia expert] Condoleeza Rice on a regular basis? This will be an administration of people well suited to their jobs. I am secure enough that I want smart people around me. I made the leap from Texas schools to Andover, where a couple of people got dual 800s on their SATs. I'm comfortable with people who have high intellects.

*TIME:* You're saying you downplay your intellectual side?

*Bush:* It may have been. We're all sums of our experience. Kent Hance [who beat Bush for Congress in 1978] gave me a lesson on country-boy politics. He was a master at it, funny and belittling. I vowed never to get out-countried again.

*TIME:* So how do you assure folks you're smart enough to be President?

*Bush:* I'm confident of my intellect. I wouldn't be running if I wasn't. My job will not be to out-think everybody in my administration. My job will be to assemble an administration full of very capable and bright people.

*TIME:* What Presidents have done that well?

*Bush:* Reagan and Bush did a good job. Reagan had a very successful presidency because of his team. So did my dad. The foreign policy team of Cheney, Powell, Baker, Scowcroft. I also happen to likeâ I forgot what President it wasâ who liked to keep antenna out to other people. Roosevelt maybe.

*TIME:* Like Lyndon Johnson? He had the best and the brightest.

*Bush:* Well, no, there's a difference between having really smart people around and making right decisions. People also have to be confident of my judgment. They need to hear my speeches and get a sense of where I want to take this country.

*TIME:* But you talk about getting the smartest people to tell you what to do ...

*Bush:* No, no, no. Not tell me what to do. Make recommendations. Plus, I'm not going to have a group of people who say the same thing.

*TIME:* So what happens when they disagree?

*Bush:* These people don't decide for me. I'm going to have to decide. I will overrule my advisers. I've done that before. People are going to have to hear my explanations of why I make decisions. They'll hear the rationales and they'll have to make up their minds whether I'm the kind of person who decides upon a set of principles or am I going to keep changing my principles based on the political whims of the day. And that's my problem with the current administration, and that's my problem with who I'm running against. They keep changing based on politics. My job is to get good thinkers and get the best out of them.

*TIME:* With the failure of the missile-defense test, are you still convinced we should move quickly to build a defensive shield?

*Bush:* Yes, we need to move ahead. I hope I can convince Mr. Putin and the Europeans. I talked to [Russian Foreign Minister Igor] Ivanov about it, and I talked to him point-blank. You'd have been proud of me. I said here we are still trying to get out of a cold war mind-set. Please tell Mr. Putin I am willing to think differently. I noticed his rhetoric began to change a little. He began to talk about the most effective missile defense being the one that can detect and destroy on launch. And he talked about the new threats of outlaw nations, those are his words.

*TIME:* Why do you think your father lost in 1992?

*Bush:* It was a death of a thousand cuts, and it took a thousand to defeat him. He couldn't get his base intact. And the cause of that was breaking the "read my lips" tax pledge.

*TIME:* But didn't his compromise on taxes help set groundwork for the recovery?

*Bush:* Some economists say it helped. I think the lesson is not to give a Shermanesque pledge during a campaign.

*TIME:* But having made it, was he right to compromise later?

*Bush:* I would have advised him not to have done it, as political advice.

*TIME:* But that's making a policy for political reasons.

*Bush:* As I said, that would have been my political advice. His change opened things to Patrick J. Buchanan. There were other reasons he lost. Perot. Third, there was the beginning of a generational change. Fourth, he did not wisely spend political capital earned from Desert Storm on domestic politics, so he got painted as out of touch. Fifth, his campaign wasn't designed well. And part of the reason he lost was history. He was at the end of a very long run.

*TIME:* Your father said in a recent interview that it was mainly the forces of history, and that these forces were now going to help you. Were you upset he didn't give more weight to your own attributes?

*Bush:* I wasn't mad. He was being modest. He wasn't going to be bragging on his son. It's part of the family heritage. He's a little gun-shy to be bragging about me because he doesn't want somehow the critics to be saying, there he is, promoting his son.

*TIME:* You stress that you are a "new kind of Republican." How is that different from the old type?

*Bush:* The old types were viewed, fairly or not, as being against things. Our party kind of slipped into not being for things. Education is an example. We were viewed as being against public schools. Perception became reality in this case.

*TIME:* Does that apply to Reagan? Your father?

*Bush:* Listen, I'm not dealing in history, I'm dealing in the short term. I'm talking about how Republicans have been defined by a politically deft President. I'm faced with perceptions that Republicans don't care about newly arrived immigrants. I do care about them.

*TIME:* So you're talking about the congressional Republicans?

*Bush:* You're trying to get me to name names. I'm not. I'm going to have to be working with these folks.

*TIME:* What are your feelings about affirmative action?

*Bush:* The best thing to do is to educate every child and to challenge the soft bigotry of low expectations. We can have affirmative programs that enhance people's chance to access the middle class without quotas and without pitting race against race. We were the first state to put a rule in place that the top 10% of each high school class could go to a state university. I call it affirmative access. This is going to enhance the ability of state universities to attract minorities. The pool of applicants must be increased for small-business ownership. I don't mind measuring, I don't mind a scorecard that says, "Whoa, why is every contract going to white firms?" But you can do it without quotas.

*TIME:* Do you think you benefited by a different, older version of affirmative action, an old-boy's network, when you got into college and went into business?

*Bush:* I don't know. Maybe. And yes, racism exists. I'm not going to be making policy based on guilt. The fundamental question in certain neighborhoods is, how do we break a sense that the system isn't meant for me? You need mentoring programs. Part of it has to do with there isn't the entrepreneurial system being passed from one generation to the next.

*TIME:* The way it was passed from your grandfather to your father to you?

*Bush:* No question. I learned at the knee of a good father.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0...1040906,00.html

Here is the full front page about the interview with Bush. Again this was taken directly from the Time Magazine website.

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040906/ <--- Time Magazine's interview with Bush.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jul 16, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> I feel so much more enlightened now. Any moment I expect to feel the Stepford wives type of lockstep to be engaging...



Do you think absolutely none of this is true?  Some?  half?


----------



## dilloduck (Jul 16, 2006)

I feel more spammed than like a Stepford wife.


----------



## dilloduck (Jul 16, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Do you think absolutely none of this is true?  Some?  half?



Who cares--what are you going to do with all this "info" but try to sell it. It's like reading War and Peace backwards.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jul 16, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> Who cares--what are you going to do with all this "info" but try to sell it. It's like reading War and Peace backwards.



Repeat it over and over to raise the awareness of others.   I will never be silenced by the anticrist kingdom.


----------



## dilloduck (Jul 16, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Repeat it over and over to raise the awareness of others.   I will never be silenced by the anticrist kingdom.



and after everyone is aware?


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Jul 16, 2006)

dilloduck said:
			
		

> and after everyone is aware?



Somehow I don't think we'll get there.  :teeth: 

I'm not saying I'm smart or anything.


----------



## dilloduck (Jul 16, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Somehow I don't think we'll get there.  :teeth:
> 
> I'm not saying I'm smart or anything.



Me neither---guess we stand back and watch.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2006)

Obviously my goal is to point out that we have had this strange secret society called Masons before any college fraternity had ever been created. Before any college had ever existed. Before the United States had ever existed.

And our first President was a Mason. And the people who wrote the laws of the constitution were Masons. And our President in office right now is a Mason. And the British have their own sects of Masons. And the majority of people in High Power positions are Masons. And their ancestors were Masons. And their ancestors ancestors were Masons.

And so I say to myself, what the hell is going on here? Many of the presidents wives were Masons. Their family blood have been Masons. They married a Mason. Then those Masons had children who would become future Masons.

So what I am saying is this. I am not a Mason. Many of the people in this country (who are being controlled without really knowing it) are not Masons. But the higher up Masons are rich, they are in power, they help to control the country, they have ties to the illuminati, they have been known to worship Lucifer (The dark angel) and they have killed people in the past for rubbing the wrong way with them. Presidents have been killed in the past for this same exact reason. And the majority of the people who killed them were Masons!

So I don't understand how people can just sit back and say, "Whats the big deal? Masons help to control our country? So what. Who cares. Let's go play some pool."

I mean I'm sorry but I am not going to just sit back here with all these coincidences (there is no such thing as coincidence) going on and pretend like everything is a bowl of cherries. It's not a good thing that these people are in power and until we no longer have the same government structure that we have today we may never be able to remove them from it.

Only when we no longer have a single president who can become a puppet for the Masons and do whatever they want him to do will we finally be able to get our true freedom back. Lets see, 2004 we voted for nothing but Masons, once again, because they were the only ones on the ticket. 

And Masons are brothers in a brotherhood. That comes before their presidency trust me. If you think that Bush and Kerry really had any hostility towards eachother at all you are wrong. Sure they were both going after the same position, but all along they were "playing politics" and they both knew that whoever lost it wouldn't even matter because they were both Masons and so they knew that they couldn't lose either way.

And lastly, just because of the fact that Presidents are chosen by their bloodline and not by the people who think they are electing them because of their credentials and principles is kind of scary. They have us all fooled at the moment. 

If you look at how many presidents have been related it's not even funny. When I say they are chosen by their bloodline I am not kidding. The kids are born, and they are prepared from day 1 by the Masons to be president. They don't come out of kindergarden and say, I'm gonna be the President of the USA when I get older! No, they are chosen by the Masons, because their whole family is made up of Masons, and then they are guided along the path until they finally take their pre-ordained position as the leader.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2006)

So I guess the real question is, which Mason are you voting for in 2008? What you say? I don't want to vote for a Mason. Well guess what, you have no choice if you want to vote. If you vote at all, you will be voting for a Mason. Because they and other secret societies practicly run this fricken country! Hell, at the moment, they are attempting to run the whole world!

Wake up! Don't cast your vote for these people! They are wicked beyond words. It doesn't matter who you vote for, because the system is rigged! Only Masons can get elected. This has been the case for the past 20 years! It's sick. And it needs to stop! I'm not voting for **** in 2008 I'll tell you that much. Although if everything pans out correctly, Hillary Clinton has already won! Because they will use the woman card to make her more appealing and gain the sympathy of the World! They are scheming to put her in office. Think about it, shes too closely tied with the Bush family. 

And the worst part is. Even if I am wrong and she doesn't win, Another Mason will! So they win everytime. Come on people, after all the proof I have just provided here, how can you deny that the Masons have been running this country since it's roots? Many of us are so brainwashed by their media and other teqniques that we don't even realize it! Well thats not gonna be the case with me anymore. I'm done being brainwashed. I see the bigger picture. And hopefully now you guys will too!


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## Annie (Jul 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Obviously my goal is to point out that we have had this strange secret society called Masons before any college fraternity had ever been created. Before any college had ever existed. Before the United States had ever existed.
> 
> And our first President was a Mason. And the people who wrote the laws of the constitution were Masons. And our President in office right now is a Mason. And the British have their own sects of Masons. And the majority of people in High Power positions are Masons. And their ancestors were Masons. And their ancestors ancestors were Masons.
> 
> ...




Now THIS is something RWA should be able to dig into...


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## dilloduck (Jul 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> So I guess the real question is, which Mason are you voting for in 2008? What you say? I don't want to vote for a Mason. Well guess what, you have no choice if you want to vote. If you vote at all, you will be voting for a Mason. Because they and other secret societies practicly run this fricken country! Hell, at the moment, they are attempting to run the whole world!
> 
> Wake up! Don't cast your vote for these people! They are wicked beyond words. It doesn't matter who you vote for, because the system is rigged! Only Masons can get elected. This has been the case for the past 20 years! It's sick. And it needs to stop! I'm not voting for **** in 2008 I'll tell you that much. Although if everything pans out correctly, Hillary Clinton has already won! Because they will use the woman card to make her more appealing and gain the sympathy of the World! They are scheming to put her in office. Think about it, shes too closely tied with the Bush family.
> 
> And the worst part is. Even if I am wrong and she doesn't win, Another Mason will! So they win everytime. Come on people, after all the proof I have just provided here, how can you deny that the Masons have been running this country since it's roots? Many of us are so brainwashed by their media and other teqniques that we don't even realize it! Well thats not gonna be the case with me anymore. I'm done being brainwashed. I see the bigger picture. And hopefully now you guys will too!



WOW-- nice piece but it sorta got slow towards the end.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2006)

I wasn't posting it for "beauty points".


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2006)

Before I get further into the FreeMasons let me provide some important quotes that might peek some of your guys interests: 


*Hegel:* 

"History tells us that man learns nothing from History". 


*Franklin Delano Roosevelt:* 

_"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet that it was planned that way."_ 


*Jeffrey Baker, Author of a book on FreeMasons:* 

"Unfortunately for America, the Princes have well-insulated themselves from mass exposure to the public at large through control of the propaganda that we call news. I do not believe that Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, or Peter Jennings are maniacal men with evil intent. They are, if you will, utopian dreamers so enamored with their own intelligence that they are blinded by their own "illumination", and professing themselves to be wise, they become utter fools." 


*Manley P. Hall (famed Masonic writer who says that the legend of Atlantis is central to the teachings and philosophies of ALL secret societies):* 

"Freemasonry is a shadow of the great Atlantean Mystery School which stood with all it's splendor in the ancient City of the Golden Gates where now the turbulent Atlantic rolls in unbroken sweep." 


*Ignatius Donnely (noted Atlantis authority - in 1822 - when comparing the Great Flood story from the Bible to the destruction of Atlantis, he says that the two are the same event):* 

"The deluge plainly refers to the destruction of Atlantis and that it agrees in many particulars with the account given by Plato. The people destroyed were, in both instances, the ancient race that had created civilization; they had formerly been in a happy and "sinless" condition; they had become great and wicked; they were destroyed for their "sins" - they were destroyed by water." 


*William Still (New World Order):* 

"Information about Atlantis is still possessed by the highest initiates of the secret societies."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2006)

*Manley P. Hall (The Secret Destiny of America):* 

"Plato wrote about Atlantis in 400 B.C., and his information was taken from accounts given by Solon, who was the father of Greek democracy. Solon learned about Atlantis by studying with priests in the Temple of Isis in Sais, Egypt. In 595 B.C., these priests took Solon to an underground cave where the Nile flowed. There they got on a boat and sailed to an island where they saw artifacts that were left by the "Lost People". In the remains of this society, they found laws that were inscribed on columns that were intended to guide mankind. This information became the basis for the secret societies and mystery religions that ensured." 


*Albert Pike (Who was the Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Freemasonry from 1859-1891, wrote in a letter to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World in July 14, 1889):* 

_"That which we must say to the crowd is we worship God. But it is the God that one adores without superstition. You may repeat it to the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees -- the Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (Yahweh) and his priests calumniate him?"_ 


*Manly P. Hall (The Lost Keys of Freemasonry):* 

"When the Mason learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of the living power, he has learned the mystery of the Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2006)

*William Shnoebelen (Masonry beyond the Light):* 

"Set (Lucifer) is the acknowledged god of Masonry." 


*Edith Starr Miller (The Occult Theocrasy, 1933):* 

"The real masonry of the Cabalistic degrees which is in touch with all secret societies, Masonic as well as non-Masonic, have been able to state that Luciferian Occultism controls Freemasonry." 


*Ralph Epperson (The New World Order):* 

"The Masons know that they must conceal their horrible secret from the people. That secret is simply the fact that certain of their members worship Lucifer."


----------



## dilloduck (Jul 21, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> I wasn't posting it for "beauty points".



I know--you are to enlighten us dramatically.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 24, 2006)

*Eliphas Levi - (Cabalist, Magician - The Book of Splendors):*

_"Satan is not the ruler of the realm of shadows, he is the agent of light behind a veil. He is of service to God, he performs God's work: God has not rejected him, for he holds him still in his hand....what is the Devil, then, in the final analysis? The Devil is God working evil."_


*William Guy Carr (One time Commander of the Royal Canadian Navy, on Albert Pike):*

_"While Pike was Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry and Head of the Illuminati during the 1870's, he revised and modernized the ritual of the Black Mass celebrated to emphasize the Luciferian and Satanic victory achieved in the Garden of Eden and over Christ to end his mission on Earth. Lucifer is worshipped as The Giver of the True Light; the fountain of ALL wisdom; and as the greatest of all Supernatural Beings." _


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 24, 2006)

*Des Griffin (Fourth Reich of the Rich):*

"Albert Pike was an evil genius of the first magnitude. He was a man of many talents who invariably used his abilities to destructive ends. He was very literate; being able to both read and write in 16 ancient languages. He was an avowed worshipper of Satan by name who practiced necromancy and all forms of sorcery."


*Albert Pike (Morals and Dogma):* 

_"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the Light!"_


*Albert Pike (in a speech to the 23 Supreme Councils, June 14, 1889):*

_"The true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay (Yahweh); but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."_ 


*Albert Pike (Morals and Dogma - on how members in the lower ranks of Masonry are deliberately lied to about the true meaning of the Masonic symbols):*

_"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explanation is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." _


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 24, 2006)

*Copin Albancelli (In 1908 - showing the distinction between the lower level and upper-echelon Masons):*


*Lower level Masonic motto:* "To the Glory of the Great Architect of the Universe."

*Upper level Masonic motto:* "To the Glory and Love for Lucifer! Hatred! Hatred! Hatred! To God, accursed, accursed, accursed!"


*Albert Pike:* 

_"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah."_


*Albert Pike:* 

_"Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately, Adonay (Yahweh) is also God, for the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black. For the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive."_


*Albert Pike:*

_"Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instructions in religion." _


----------



## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2006)

you can never beat us.....no one will belive you


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 24, 2006)

Don't listen to what certain people tell you. 

It was Lucifer (The Devil) who tempted Jesus.

Lucifer is the Dark Angel. The Angel that used to be a member of "Heaven".

Lucifer fell from "Heaven". Satan is another name for Lucifer.

Lucifer chose to leave God on his own accord. Now he is condemned to Earth until it is decided otherwise.

Lucifer is Evil. He represents the Dark. He is the opposite of Good. He lead other Angels astray from Heaven.

He was in charge of Music and Worship in "Heaven" before he left. He was an important Angel while he was in "Heaven" doing God's work. Greed overtook him. Now he sits in misery and boredom.

Don't be fooled. Upper level Masons worship the darkness. George Bush and other such high level Masons are a part of the whole program. They trick you everytime they get on tv and lie to you. 

Don't fall for it anymore. Don't listen to their words. Just watch their actions closely.


----------



## Annie (Jul 24, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> you can never beat us.....no one will belive you


Ben Franklin was a Mason. So were some others:

20 GREATEST NAMES OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION

    * John Adams - Spoke favorably of Freemasonry -- never joined
    * Samuel Adams - (Close and principle associate of Hancock, Revere & other Masons
    * Ethan Allen - Mason
    * Edmund Burke - Mason
    * John Claypoole - Mason
    * William Daws - Mason
    * Benjamin Franklin - Mason
    * Nathan Hale - No evidence of Masonic connections
    * John Hancock - Mason
    * Benjamin Harrison - No evidence of Masonic connections
    * Patrick Henry - No evidence of Masonic connections
    * Thomas Jefferson - Deist with some evidence of Masonic connections
    * John Paul Jones - Mason
    * Francis Scott Key - No evidence of Masonic connections
    * Robert Livingston - Mason
    * James Madison - Some evidence of Masonic membership
    * Thomas Paine - Humanist
    * Paul Revere - Mason
    * Colonel Benjamin Tupper - Mason
    * George Washington - Mason
    * Daniel Webster - Some evidence of Masonic connections


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## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Ben Franklin was a Mason. So were some others:
> 
> 20 GREATEST NAMES OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
> 
> ...



link? what about general sherman?


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## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> *Don't listen to what certain people tell you.*
> 
> It was Lucifer (The Devil) who tempted Jesus.
> 
> ...



why should we listen to you....maybe you are one of lou cifer's henchmen


----------



## Annie (Jul 24, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> link? what about general sherman?


LOL! From the civil war? I don't know. Personally, the masons don't scare me! :teeth:


----------



## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> LOL! From the civil war? I don't know. Personally, the masons don't scare me! :teeth:



mum's side of the family is sherman

my dad's dad was a mason....so was my dad....

i escaped....


----------



## Annie (Jul 24, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> mum's side of the family is sherman
> 
> my dad's dad was a mason....so was my dad....
> 
> i escaped....


Personally, with so many founders/framers 'leaning' or belonging, I'll take my chances they aren't bringing the country down.


----------



## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Personally, with so many founders/framers 'leaning' or belonging, I'll take my chances they aren't bringing the country down.



no kidding.....people freaking out that masons...that founded the country....are still running the country....imagine that.....and they want in god we trust on the money....so help me god in court.....one nation under god in the pledge.....damn satanists....it is reverse psy ops man


----------



## Annie (Jul 24, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> no kidding.....people freaking out that masons...that founded the country....are still running the country....imagine that.....and they want in god we trust on the money....so help me god in court.....one nation under god in the pledge.....damn satanists....it is reverse psy ops man


I know, don't even go into NWO, nazihides, and 'the jews run everything.' Conspiricists are just that. If it's not one boogeyman, I've got another...


----------



## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> I know, don't even go into NWO, nazihides, and 'the jews run everything.' Conspiricists are just that. If it's not one boogeyman, I've got another...



really...i get confused.....

is it the masons? the fundies? the jews? the corporations? soros and buffet? rockefeller?  

i can't keep up which group is in charge.

more wine dear?


----------



## Annie (Jul 24, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> really...i get confused.....
> 
> is it the masons? the fundies? the jews? the corporations? soros and buffet? rockefeller?
> 
> ...


Thanks, it's late. I've switched to diet!


----------



## manu1959 (Jul 24, 2006)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Thanks, it's late. I've switched to diet!



diet wine?! sounds like a masonic plot!


----------



## Annie (Jul 24, 2006)

manu1959 said:
			
		

> diet wine?! sounds like a masonic plot!


 Not diet wine,   I'm a Pepper tonight! Cherry Dr. Pepper to be exact!


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

The meaning of the word Lucifer is light-bearer. The Scriptural basis for applying this name to Satan can be found in *Isaiah 14:12*. The Catholic Douay-Rheims version translates Day Star as Lucifer, whereas the Catholic Edition of the Revised Standard Version (RSV CE) uses the more linguistically accurate Day Star. In the literal sense of the scripture verse, the Babylonian empire is being referenced. However, in the spiritual sense, the Church has long recognized that the passage speaks of a fallen angel, namely Satan:

_How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! (RSV CE)._

A New Testament passage that somewhat parallels the spiritual sense of 

*Isaiah 14:12* can be found in *Luke 10:18* which states: 

_And he said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven._

For more reading on the angels, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, nos. 391-95, 414, and 760. See also the entry for Demons in the Catechisms Index.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

In contrast with the good qualities, the evil and the indifferent ones originate not in the goodness and wisdom of God, whose substance underlies the universe, but in the blindness and willfulness of certain spiritual entities.

True "Angels of Light" are spirits, upon whom great power, wisdom and holiness have been bestowed by God.

The word Angel means "messenger", for the most frequent role of angels is that of messengers and mediators between the PLEROMA and the world of humans.

There are supposably nine orders or "choirs" of angels: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions (or Dominations), Virtues, Powers, Principalities (Kingdoms), Archangels and Angels. The canonical scriptures mention three angels by name: the Archangels Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. The Gnostic church adds to these a fourth: Uriel. Gnostic scriptures mention most of these angels and add numerous others such as the rescuer of Gnostics, Eleleth, and many others.

Positive Angels help Humans by praying for them, by acting as messengers between the PLEROMA and our earthly dwelling place, and by serving as our guardian angels.

Guardian angels pray for us, protect us from spiritual harm (or at times also from physical harm).

The visitation of the Holy Virgin Mary by the Archangel Gabriel and the revelation of the Koran to Mohammed by the same Archangel are two examples of Angels who were supposed to have been seen.

*There are spiritual beings who have become estranged from God and from the PLEROMA and who are thus at best unwise and at worst evil.

They are found primarily in connection with the material universe and its mental and emotional aspects, for they are primarily responsible for the creation and management of the negative realms and for the suffering and sorrow that abide therein.

One of the Original names for Lucifer/Satan was Demiurge or "half-maker" because he was supposed to have taken the divine substance and fashioned out of it a world. He is the spiritual being who had become forgetful of his origins, even of God. He thinks that he is God and there is no other God before him.

In Gnostic scriptures he is called YALDABAOTH (child of chaos), SACLAS (fool) and SAMAEL (blind one). Later he was at times identified with LUCIFER or SATAN, the prince of the powers of air.

Not all the images of God in the Old Testament come from the same source. A good many are descriptions of the Demiurge. Some, such as those in the Wisdom Literature and in some Psalms, are of a much more exalted nature. Some Gnostic teachers held that the teachings of the Old Testament were a mixture attributable to three sources: the Demiurge, the elders of Israel and the True God.

Aside from Lucifer (Also known as Demiurge and or Satan) There is suppose to exist monstrosities of evil which populate hellish regions in association with earth. Their origins are unknown. The name of one demon mentioned in Gnostic scriptures is YACHTANABAS, although there are others.*


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

So apparently Lucifer (The Dark Angel), has been known by many names. 

 It also appears that the name Demiurge was one his first known names to mankind.


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## dilloduck (Jul 26, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> So apparently Lucifer (The Dark Angel), has been known by many names.
> 
> It also appears that the name Demiurge was one his first known names to mankind.




Is that like half an urge ?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

According to Greek philosophy the Demiurge (The Devil) is not necessarily identical with God, as first and supreme source of all things; he may be distinct from and inferior to the supreme spirit, though he may also be the practical expression of the reason of God, the Logos as operative in the harmony of the universe. In this sense, i.e. that of a world-maker distinct from the Supreme God, Demiurge became a common term in Gnosticism. The Gnostics, however, were not satisfied merely to emphasize the distinction between the Supreme God, or God the Father, and the Demiurge, but in many of their systems they conceived the relation of the Demiurge to the Supreme God as one of actual antagonism, and the Demiurge became the personification of the power of evil, the Satan, with whom the faithful had to wage war to the end that they might be pleasing to the Good God.

The term Demiurge became still more complicated when in some systems he was identified with the Old Testament, and was brought in opposition to Christ of the New Testament, the Only-Begotten Son of the Supreme and Good God. The purpose of Christ's coming as Saviour and Redeemer (According to the New Testament) was to rescue us from the power of the Demiurge, the lord of the world of this darkness, and bring us to the light of the Good God, His Father in heaven.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

Point being...

Don't let people blind you with a lie.

Lucifer was and still is an Evil Being.

Higher Masons worship Lucifer. Lucifer is the Devil and he presides over the material World.

I believe God views the attatchment to things that don't last forever as vanity. Attatchment to The Material World would place a person in the position of committing vanity.

Things that don't last forever are considered vain. 

Anything that lasts forever is considered of the highest priority in "Heaven".


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## rtwngAvngr (Jul 26, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> According to Greek philosophy the Demiurge (The Devil) is not necessarily identical with God, as first and supreme source of all things; he may be distinct from and inferior to the supreme spirit, though he may also be the practical expression of the reason of God, the Logos as operative in the harmony of the universe. In this sense, i.e. that of a world-maker distinct from the Supreme God, Demiurge became a common term in Gnosticism. The Gnostics, however, were not satisfied merely to emphasize the distinction between the Supreme God, or God the Father, and the Demiurge, but in many of their systems they conceived the relation of the Demiurge to the Supreme God as one of actual antagonism, and the Demiurge became the personification of the power of evil, the Satan, with whom the faithful had to wage war to the end that they might be pleasing to the Good God.
> 
> The term Demiurge became still more complicated when in some systems he was identified with the Old Testament, and was brought in opposition to Christ of the New Testament, the Only-Begotten Son of the Supreme and Good God. The purpose of Christ's coming as Saviour and Redeemer (According to the New Testament) was to rescue us from the power of the Demiurge, the lord of the world of this darkness, and bring us to the light of the Good God, His Father in heaven.




I've noticed a disturbing trend in some reading I've done to identify satan and god as an inseparable duality, leading to the acceptance of evil.  This is pure satanism as far as I'm concerned.


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## dilloduck (Jul 26, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Point being...
> 
> Don't let people blind you with a lie.
> 
> ...



How about the vanity of writing a really really long post?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

Higher level Masons are attatched to the Material World indeed. I know it from the way they treat the World as well as society in General.

The primary tool that the "Controllers" use for their agenda is money. 

Money can be seen as the material World at it's finest.

When more people begin to understand the greed that surrounds these types of Secret Societies and their purposes, then they will understand how it all evolves around the Material World and the Devil.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

And yes....people who worship the Devil don't care about outcomes my friend. They care about destruction and separation from the Father. They are trapped in their own Mind-Prison. A Mind-Prison that they created for themselves. A snare so to speak.

They have no conscience.


3 qualities of such a person are these:


1. They don't like God.

2. They don't like Animals.

3. They don't like Children.


Watch out for people such as that.


Watch for those 3 qualities whenever you run into somebody who you are not sure you can trust.

If they state one of those three things to you, it would be best to stay away from them. Don't bother asking them why they feel that way....because there answer can never be justified.

If they don't state them to you, but yet their actions prove to be otherwise...it would be best to stay away from them.

The same goes for if they lie to you. Politicians lie all the time to every one of us. Never go by what a person says. Let that spark your interest. But never let it determine or influence your reality.

Go by what they do.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

Whats most interesting to me is the three things that Satanists are most known for:


*1.* Their Sacrifice of Children.

*2.* Their Sacrifice of Animals.

*3.* Their condemnation for God.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

*Some more stuff relating to Lucifer/Satan (The Dark Angel):*


Satan is said to be an angel (Job 1-2). God is supposed to have made him before the world began (Job 38:4-7). Satan is said to be very powerful and very wise But he became the first sinner (1 John 3:8). Apparently at one point in the past (or possibly future) he led a rebellion in heaven against God (Revelation 12:7). In Satans fall, he drew a vast number of angels with him (Revelation 12:4, 9). Some of the fallen angels are loose and some are bound in a place called the Abyss (Luke 8:31). The loose ones we call "demons". Of the bound ones, there are two kinds, permanently bound (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) and temporarily bound (Revelation 9:1-11). Satan and his demons now wage war against Gods kingdom (Revelation 12:17). Satan now dwells on earth (Job 1:7). At the Second Coming of Christ, he will be bound for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). After the thousand years, he will be set free for a short time and will go out to deceive the nations (Revelation 20:7-9). The devils final end will be in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10), which was prepared by God for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

*A scripture relating to Lucifer/Satan the Devil:*

"Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God: "You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. 16 By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones. 17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor . . ." *Ezekiel 28:12*


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

Under the figure of "King of Tyrus," Ezekiel declares that this great created being "had the seal of perfection, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty." Ezekiel 28:1219 describes Satans original state as the anointed cherub who was not only a created being, but created perfect (vss. 12-13). He enjoyed the highest position and honor in the presence of God (28:14, 16). Further, Isaiah spoke of him as Lucifer, star of the morning , son of the dawn - Isaiah 14:12-15.He was on the holy mountain of God and every precious stone was his covering. He was set there as "the anointed covering cherub" by God and walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire. He was perhaps the appointed guardian of the holiness of God, probably over this original planet earth. The inspired record says, "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" - *Ezekiel. 28:12-15*.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

*Scriptures relating to Lucifer/Satan's fall:*


But what exactly was the character or nature of Satans iniquity? As suggested by 1 Timothy 3:6-7 and Ezekiel 28:17, though created perfect by God (Ezek. 28:13-15), it was conceit or pride that welled up in his heart because of his beauty and high position that led to arrogant aspirations and to his sin and fall. In Isaiah 14:12-15 and in Ezekiel 28:12-19, we have a remarkable account of the original place which Satan once had as "Lucifer, son of the morning." His fall from this original, exalted place, of perhaps the greatest of created angelic beings, is given in these Scriptures. These arrogant aspirations are described for us in Isaiah 14:12-17 : pride, selfwill, iniquity, rebellion, and violence are the reasons. Because of his pride and aspirations to be like God, he became Gods chief adversary (Heb. Satan). After this, he is never again called by any of these prestigious titles. Instead, he is called by terms that reflect his fallen character and hostility to God and men, like liar, murderer, Satan (adversary), the evil one, Abaddon (destruction), Apollyon (destroyer), Belial (worthless), serpent, and dragon. 

Scotus, however points out that this sin was not pride properly so called, but should rather be described as a species of spiritual lust. 

Although nothing definite can be known as to the precise nature of the probation of the angels and the manner in which many of them fell, many theologians have conjectured, with some show of probability, that the mystery of the Divine Incarnation was revealed to them, that they saw that a nature lower than their own was to be hypostatically united to the Person of God the Son, and that all the hierarchy of heaven must bow in adoration before the majesty of the Incarnate Word; and this, it is supposed, was the occasion of the pride of Lucifer.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

Furthermore, we learn from *Ezekiel 28* that Lucifer engaged in a multitude of traffic, which means "going about." He is said to have filled heaven with violence and rebellion. 

"Thou has defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic" 

Thus Lucifer instigated violence and rebellion among the heavenly hosts before man was created, and those who followed him became his angels or demons. Seeking to overthrow God and rule heaven, Lucifer assembled an army of apostate angels and initiated a war in heaven. 

In the book of Revelation we read about a war in heaven between Michael and the angels who remained loyal to God and the dragon, "called the Devil, and Satan," and his angels. Then Satan and his angels were defeated by Michael, and were thrown down from heaven to hell. 

And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. *Revelation 12:7-9*


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

*The Five I Wills of Rebellion*


Isaiah points us to five I wills coming from the proud and boastful heart of Lucifer/Satan that describe the nature of his aspiration (Isa. 14:13-14). In each of these I wills Satan pitted his will against the will of God. He substituted his will for Gods will and, significantly, these five statements expressed by Satan manifest the very essence of sin: it is the will of the creature set against the will and appointment of the Creator.


*Satan's "I Wills":*


*I will ascend to heaven.*

*I will raise my throne above the stars of God.*

*I will sit on the mount of the assembly in the recesses of the north.* 

This describes Satans ambition to control all the affairs of the universe as the assembly of Babylonian gods supposedly did. Often in Scripture, mountain and hills refer to authority or the right to rule. 

*I will ascend above the heights of the clouds.* 

*According to Exodus 16:10 and Revelation 19:1*, clouds are often associated with Gods glory and presence. This I will expressed Satans desire to usurp the glory that belonged to God.

*I will make myself like the Most High.* 

Lucifer was not satisfied with the exalted place he had in the creation of God. Ezekiel says, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness" (Ezek. 28:17). So he purposed to exalt himself and his throne and aimed to be like God Himself. Note the contradiction in Satans own thinking here. To become like God was first of all to admit that he was not God. He was only a created being, one created by the Creator.


*Isaiah 2:2 reads:*

Now it will come about that in the last days, the mountain of the house of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains, and will be raised above the hills; and all the nations will stream to it.

This anticipates Messiahs rule or kingdom, called here the mountain of the house of the Lord, and all the other kingdoms, mountains and hills, will be under His kingdom. So this I will of Satan expressed his determination to rule over the affairs of the entire created universe.

*Pentecost writes:*

When Lucifer said, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, he was saying, I will take to myself a greater glory than belongs to God Himself. You will remember that Ezekiel described the beauty and the glory that belonged to Lucifer in terms of the sun shining on polished gems. But the glory that belonged to Lucifer was not inherently his; it was a reflected glory. God, who is the author of glory, God, who is the all glorious One, revealed his glory through the work that came from His hand. How insane the thinking of this one that he could add glory to the infinite glory of God. It suggests that there was a deficiency in the glory of God and that Lucifer could complete that which was lacking.

Here his counterfeit is crystal clear. Satan wanted to be like, not unlike, God. The name Elyon for God stresses Gods strength and sovereignty *(Gen. 14:18). *Satan wanted to be as powerful as God. He wanted to exercise the authority and control in this world that rightfully belongs only to God. His sin was a direct challenge to the power and authority of God.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

Alright it's PEP TIME boys and girls. WTF is peptime? 

Peptime is when I remind you guys that these sick Mother-F-ckers are in the middle of ****ing over our entire country! These sick, twisted, satanic worshipping, bold face lying, crackpot sniffing, black cloak wearing, weird hat ritualistic sons of bitches are in the process as we speak of conducting their business as usual. 

And these people will never let up! Until they are forced to! So that means neither can we. The minute we let up on these bastards is the minute our World falls into Hell. Is that what we fricken want? 

First of all, they won't publicly display their secrets! The fact that they are too chicken shit to show the rest of the World what they are doing in the shadows shows me that they are conieving little devils who care nothing more than keeping their secrets in the family so to speak, and that they can say whatever they want to because they know that their asses are covered! 

Time for people to get up and realize that what people say means nothing. 

Guess what guys, I was born in a little town called winnetika and my father was a hero in my eyes because of all the service he put into the World helping little children who couldn't read and write. He devoted his time to the World to help them all get better educations and he raised my family the way a father should. I received honors in school because I was a good student and I have been an overachiever all my life. I now live in a cozy little cottage with my two sons and I am living the American Dream. 


Guess what folks....I just lied to you guys! Bold face. But my intention was not to lie...it was to expose the truth about people who do! WORDS MEAN NOTHING IF THE ACTIONS DON'T MATCH UP. IT"S PEOPLES ACTIONS THAT MEAN EVERYTHING.....WORDS ONLY GO AS FAR AS THE EAR. THEY PUT NOTHING INTO ACTION.... 


No...I was bullshitting you guys the entire time with that. Just like Bush does when he gets on TV in front of the podium. People lie everyday, right in front of all you guys, in your real lives, and they do it through their teeth, and you can tell they are lying before they even admit it. So why in the HELL DO WE KEEP BELIEVING POLITICIANS ON TV WHO NONE OF US HAVE EVER EVEN MET? It's a f-ckin joke. 

I did not grow up in some friggen town called winettika, my dad was an alchoholic who would barely ever come to the dinner table. He left us when I was young so my mom could raise us by herself. And she did a damn good job. 

Thats the REAL truth. Only, none of you guys would have known the difference. In fact, there is no way for you to tell whether I am lying to you right now or not. 

Thats how f-cked up our whole system is right now guys. The politicians say one thing, and the people buy into it!! And laziness on behalf of the people to look into the facts has been part of the reason that these people have been in power as long as they have! 

Again. Never EVER EVER EVER EVER go by what a person says. Go by what they do. If you only go by what they say, they will get you everytime. 


So we can't stop exposing these monkeys. The minute we do, the World falls into "Dumbo mode again", where the majority of the people laugh and get drunk and have sex while meanwhile these freaks, FREAKS, go out there and do horrible things to Human Beings and to the planet. WAKE THE F-CK UP PEOPLE! THIS SH-T IT DISGUSTING. It's time we just said, "Anyone who isn't going to expose what they are doing to the public, does not deserve an ounce of credit with what they say to the rest of the World." 

And once we make that statement and stick by it like we have some balls! Then we will start to see things change. And for the fricken better. Boy, what a thought. Things could actually get better? Damn skippy.....damn damn damn damn skippy. 


PS - This message is not intended for anyone on this board who is already in the know. It is not intended in any way shape or form to do anything other than WAKE people the f-ck up from their "disneyland" so we can start to take some action. Viewer discretion advised.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

Some people might be saying....Nuke...that last post was "out of character" for you. 

Are you serious? Whens the last time someone had the balls to look President Bush in his face and call HIM...to his face... out of character? 


*Albert Pike (July 13, 1889):* 

_"Lucifer is god...Pure philisophic religion is the belief that Lucifer is the god of light and the god of good."_ 


*Albert Pike (Morals and Dogma):* 

_"The Masonic religion should by all of us initiates of the highest degrees be maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine."_ 


*Albert Pike (On why the average mason doesn't know what his group represents):* 

_"They do not know because we lie to them."_ 



People....what more did the man need to say in order for you guys to realize that HE WAS LAUGHING IN THE WORLD'S FACE!!!! And disrespecting the people of the World to boot! 

And you guys say? Who cares? Who the hell is Albert-Pike? 

People!!! Albert Pike was a friggen Civil War General! He was one of the architects of the Klu-Klux-Klan! 

There is a ****** statue of Albert Pike on Federal Property in Washington D.C.! And he is the only Confederate General who has one there!! 

So what am I telling you? I'm telling you that these Masonic freaks including our President and the people in Washington have erected a statue of this man right in front of our faces! And put it on the soil of our muther-f-ing capital! What more do people need to see before we understand that THE TOP LEADERS OF OUR COUNTRY ARE CORRUPT! And they are spitting in our faces. Spitting...in.....our....faces.


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## Said1 (Jul 26, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Alright it's PEP TIME boys and girls.














Couldn't find the happy cheerleader, sorry.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 26, 2006)

*Some more interesting facts that people might be interested in:* 


*1.* Fifty of the original fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence were Masons who were also involved in Rosicrucianism, astrology, secret societies, numerology, Tarot, and the Cabala. 


*2.* Albert Pike was a Prince Adept of Freemasonry, and also a Palladist, which is a secret society that openly worships Lucifer. 


*3.* All of the Boston Tea Party participating members were Freemasons who belonged to the St. Andrews Lodge in Boston. 


*4.* Benjamin Franklin (Who belonged to the HellFire club which is a Satanic worshipping organization) joined his first American Masonic Lodge in 1731 - which was the Lodge of St. John in Philadelphia. He also printed the first Masonic book ever released in America called _Constitutions_. He was also a Grand Master of the Nine Sisters Mason Lodge in Paris. 


*5.* Our first President of the United States - George Washington - was also a high-ranking Mason. And thanks to Albert Pike (The Satanist), we all now know what it means to be a "High-ranking Mason".


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 1, 2006)

*General Douglas MacArthur:* 

"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into economic and political decline.


*Antony Sutton (America's Secret Establishment - An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones - commenting on the philisophical outlook of the Controllers):*

"We're going to use the Hegelian Dialectic process to bring about a society in which the state is in absolute and total powerful control, a New World Order where the state is absolute and the individual can only find freedom in blind obedience to the state."


*Des Griffin:*

"In order to establish how deeply the secret societies have penetrated politics, it is necessary to understand how the history of the twentieth century has been molded by a hidden power group. This group is not necessarily aligned to either the left or right wings of the conventional political movements which have taken the public role in shaping World events in the years since the end of World War 1. It operates within both capitalism and communism and has as it's ultimate goal a politico-spiritual vision which transcends both these materialistic systems which are used to control the masses."


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 1, 2006)

*Excerpts from "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" (translated by Victor Marsden):*


* "The best results in governing are attained by violence and terrorization, not by academic discussion."

* "The ruler who is governed by the moral is not a skilled politician."

* "Great national qualities like frankness and honesty are vices in politics."

* "The Political has nothing in common with the moral."

* "We must not stop at bribery, deceit, and treachery when they should serve towards the attainment of our end."


*Des Griffin:* 

"The men who conceived the diabolical conspiracy as laid out in the Protocols were not atheists; they were members of the Illuminati, followers of the original "light bearer", Satan the Devil. They were worshippers of Satan. This is the plan of Satan."


*Henry Ford:*

"The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are at least sixteen years old, and they have fitted the World situation up to this time. They fit it now."



*Two phrases that frequently appear in the Illuminati Protocols:*


*Goyim* - Which means "Human Cattle", which is a slur used by the Illuminati to categorize people of every race or creed who aren't members of the Illuminati.

*Agentur* - Which means all of the agents who are used by the Illuminati.



*PS* - If people were ever wondering whether the Illuminati tied in with politics or not...all they have to do is look at the above excerpts from the Illuminati Protocols and they will realize that the Illuminati is VERY involved with World Politics.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 1, 2006)

*Adam Weishaupt (founder of the Illuminati in 1776):*

_"Reason will be the only code of Man. This is one of our greatest secrets. When at last Reason becomes the religion of man, then will the problem be solved."_


*Bertrand Russell (Famous 20th century philosipher, who wrote in Impact of Science on Society (1953):*

_"Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils have left school, they shall be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting other than their schoolmaster would have wished."_


*David Rockefeller:*

_"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."_


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## dilloduck (Aug 1, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> *Adam Weishaupt (founder of the Illuminati in 1776):*
> 
> _"Reason will be the only code of Man. This is one of our greatest secrets. When at last Reason becomes the religion of man, then will the problem be solved."_
> 
> ...



Is THIS when we all stand up with our pitchforks ?


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 1, 2006)

Or your voices Dillo...whichever you prefer.


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## dilloduck (Aug 1, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Or your voices Dillo...whichever you prefer.



why not chat about it instead if innundating us with all this cut/paste crap ?


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 2, 2006)

First I just want to remind myself as well as all of you....that these sick bastards (The Controllers) are getting exactly what they want out of this possible beginning of World War 3 in the Middle East.

You see.....when you fund both sides of the situation...for one reason and one reason only...which is to create a war that will be so bloody and atrocious, that when even the biggest fans of war will eventually become digusted by it....that they are hoping that the people of the World will accept their New World Order. Or in other words, slavery under a single World Government. A Government which essentially, "Controls the World".

That is their aim here folks! Can we not see it? These people want to introduce their New World Order so badly, that they are willing to do it at whatever cost. Even it if means sitting back and watching as little kids sucking their thumbs are killed outright by bombs in their sleep!!

And you may be asking yourself, "Well, what are we supposed to do about all this?"

As crazy as this sounds....doing what they want you to do by asking for a One World Government which controlls all nations is the worst thing you could ever ask for as a Human Being.

I know...it sounds strange to say that. The only apparent solution to this whole problem...."World peace under a one World Government"....is exactly what they were hoping we would let them spoonfeed us.

But no. It's a mistake. It's what they want. It's what they hope for. This problem can be solved in many other ways. REMEMBER THAT. One World Government will not be the only solution. And allowing their creation (World War 3) to go into full motion, and then to come back to bite them all in the ass, is a better solution than what they all have planned for us.

I will quote this person David Rockefeller one more time for you guys....to allow his words to sink right into your heads.

*David Rockefeller:*

_"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."_

Folks...this is what they have been waiting for. They are ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING ON THEIR OWN TO PREVENT IT. ONLY WHEN WE SHOUT "STOP THE KILLING!" "STOP THE WAR!" "STOP ALL THIS VIOLENCE AND DESTRUCTION!", only then will they act. But it won't be because they give one ounce of a damn about our feelings, it will be because they had a pre-planned solution awaiting us......which is complete and utter SLAVERY under their proposed New World Order Agenda.

Are you gonna fall for their B-shit? I hope not. How about your friends? Are they going to fall for it and accept their NWO? For all of our sakes....we ALL better hope not. Because if Humanity hands the power of every nation over to these bastards than we will all go down at once. And they will literally almost control EVERYTHING!!!! Including the power of printing the World's money, the power of taxing the World's civilizations, the power of getting to say who goes to jail and who doesn't....the power of choosing which religion they will force upon us....the power of the Devil!!

DON'T FALL FOR IT. DON'T LET THEM DICTATE THE OUTCOMES ANYMORE! STAND TOGETHER. AS ONE HUMANITY. AND CREATE THEM FOR YOURSELVES!


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## dilloduck (Aug 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> First I just want to remind myself as well as all of you....that these sick bastards (The Controllers) are getting exactly what they want out of this possible beginning of World War 3 in the Middle East.
> 
> You see.....when you fund both sides of the situation...for one reason and one reason only...which is to create a war that will be so bloody and atrocious, that when even the biggest fans of war will eventually become digusted by it....that they are hoping that the people of the World will accept their New World Order. Or in other words, slavery under a single World Government. A Government which essentially, "Controls the World".
> 
> ...



I don't get it--What are we supposed to do about it?:huh:


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 2, 2006)

Well number one. Refuse to accept their New World Order conditions. 

That is the first step that will lead you all to the next one.


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## dilloduck (Aug 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Well number one. Refuse to accept their New World Order conditions.
> 
> That is the first step that will lead you all to the next one.



Like what? refuse to do what?


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 2, 2006)

REFUSE....THE NEW...WORLD ORDER.

Trust me...they won't change the names of it.

They will continue to call it by what it is.....

One World Government...

New World Order....

Global Unification....

Whatever the f-ck ever.


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## dilloduck (Aug 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> REFUSE....THE NEW...WORLD ORDER.
> 
> Trust me...they won't change the names of it.
> 
> ...



Hell--the NWO has never asked me to do anything.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 2, 2006)

lol.

My God....they don't usually ask when they do something.

Funny you should mention that. They like to kind of work it in slowly so to speak.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 2, 2006)

Their favorite thing to do is throw situations at you...which were created by them....and then throw their own solutions at you....which were created by them.

It's a win win situation. For them not you that is.


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## dilloduck (Aug 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> lol.
> 
> My God....they don't usually ask when they do something.
> 
> Funny you should mention that. They like to kind of work it in slowly so to speak.



If you really expect anyone to stop the NWO you are going to have to give everyone some specific things to do or you're just pissing up a rope.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 2, 2006)

Dude...no offense...but I don't give a flying monkey sh-t how you decide to REFUSE THE NEW WORLD ORDER. There are many options. I just hope that you will have the balls in the end to pick one.

And that goes for EVERYBODY.


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## Annie (Aug 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Their favorite thing to do is throw situations at you...which were created by them....and then throw their own solutions at you....which were created by them.


I'm having to go with Dillo on this. Exactly what are you speaking of? How do they 'throw situations' or 'solutions at us?' Give some examples, please. It's like you are speaking in riddles. You seem more 'NWO' than anything I've come across.


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## dilloduck (Aug 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> Dude...no offense...but I don't give a flying monkey sh-t how you decide to REFUSE THE NEW WORLD ORDER. There are many options. I just hope that you will have the balls in the end to pick one.
> 
> And that goes for EVERYBODY.



hey Thanks for all the information and advice---it helped a lot !:huh:


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 2, 2006)

If I haven't given you enough examples with the information contained within this entire thread.....than perhaps there will never be enough examples for you to learn from.


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## dilloduck (Aug 2, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:
			
		

> If I haven't given you enough examples with the information contained within this entire thread.....than perhaps there will never be enough examples for you to learn from.



Face it---you have no practical advice whatsoever to stop the NWO.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 8, 2006)

These people "The Controllers" are obsessed with Order.

They want to introduce their New World Order so badly, that they are willing to create Chaos in order to make sure that it gets established.

What these people really despise is Chaos though. They only use it to restore their power over the people when things get out of hand.

When people are allowed to think for themselves, and to speak freely and act however they want to, that allows for chaotic behavior. The "Controllers" hate chaotic behavior. They want everything and everyone to be Controlled and to be put into Order.

Whats going on right now in the Middle East is a perfect example of how they operate. They are going to create their "Order of out Chaos" process over there. Right now things are chaotic over there. But what they plan to have is an Obedient Middle East when this great War is all over. Thats right. A completely Obedient Middle East under their New World Order. This is what they are hoping for. And they will spend however much money they need to and allow for hundreds of thousand of people to die in the process. As long as it results in Order at the end of it all.

Thats how sick this whole thing is going to be if we allow them to implement the NWO. 

It means that freedoms and liberties will mean nothing. The only thing that will matter to these bastards is that the World is controlled in an "Orderly" fashion. 

These people don't think like your every day common criminal. They don't operate sporaticly or chaoticly. They are so obsessed with Order that they even implement their strategies in an orderly way, by executing major events on certain days of the year. The days of which are symbolic and meaningful only to the Controllers. 

These people are Satanic in nature. They are ritualistic to a fault. They sometimes wait years to kill a person and plan the entire thing out so that it fits in with their rituals and that it's all done in Order.

Ultimately, Bush doesn't give a damn about "freedom" and "liberty" like he says he does on TV. No....what he cares about is Order. And that goes for the rest of the "Controllers" who belong to these sick Satanic societies and who operate behind the scenes in extremely powerful positions around the World so that they can all make sure that when the time is right, they will declare Martial Law on the citizens of the World, and Implement their New World Order accordingly.

It's so simple how they operate. But it amazes me how many people haven't figured out their motives yet. And how many people are still blind to the fact that there is no such thing as coincidence. And that everything happens for a reason. And that whenever money is the power source behind something, such as a major war or conflict, that it can always be traced back somewhere...and I guarantee you...that in all cases of wars that we have had within the last few centuries, that when you trace the money behind them back to it's original roots, you will find the trail that leads directly back to these Controllers.


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## dilloduck (Aug 8, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> These people "The Controllers" are obsessed with Order.
> 
> They want to introduce their New World Order so badly, that they are willing to create Chaos in order to make sure that it gets established.
> 
> ...



We know-----you told us already. Enough already.


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## theHawk (Aug 8, 2006)

I think somebody has been watching _V For Vendetta _a few too many times.


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## dilloduck (Aug 8, 2006)

theHawk said:


> I think somebody has been watching _V For Vendetta _a few too many times.



I got you back---I'll warn ya if any controllers try to head south from here.:2guns:


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 15, 2006)

My experience has always been that for some reason, people turn a blind eye to this entire NWO situation because they figure as long as they got their cars, their girls, their money in their wallets, and their families to come home to, that whatever else thats going on in the World really doesn't matter. As long as it's not happening anywhere near them or their neighborhood of course.

It's a big joke. Really. Too many people buy into the concept that, if you believe that Life is peachy, then it's peachy.

Perception does help to create a state of reality, yes, but it does not affect others around you or the World for that matter. It only affects the individual. 

So it doesn't matter if we have 50 rich people coming home every night to their cozy beds after a nice little party and talking about how blessed they are and how happy their lives are, because while those people are doing that, there are 50 people in other parts of the World who are sleeping on the cement wondering why there were abandoned by those who should have been there for them while they rummage through trashcans and try to keep their 1 set of clothes from smelling too bad that nobody wants them around.

Individual reality only goes as far as the individual. But the collective, WORLD reality at the moment, is that there is something very destructive and sinister playing out right now, that is going to affect EVERYBODY, regardless of what state of reality they have created for themselves, and regardless of how safe and secure they feel at the moment. 

It's ok to enjoy life and create a reality of peace and prosperity for yourself. It is completely wrong however to ignore the rest of the World and the people around you just because they don't fit into your illusion.

If we don't start caring about eachother NOW, right NOW, and start telling people like President Bush to stop talking so damn much about making the Middle East a better place, and start focusing on our own f-ckin country and the problems we have RIGHT HERE AT HOME, then we become utter fools who fall victim to our own traps and for their ideals.

Just once, I want to see President Bush get on tv and address the homeless situation in this country. And to show solid proof that he and his administration are doing something to solve the problem.

Just once, I would like to see President Bush get on tv and talk about the problems in Africa, where kids (black kids mainly), are dying everyday with their stomachs puffed out and their ribs sucked in. While their parents have to watch and are helpless to save them. I want to hear President Bush get on tv and show that he has some balls and that he cares about those people and I want him to do it NOW. Not later. NOW!!!!!!!!!!

I am so pissed off at how many people including myself sometimes worry more about what kind of food I'm going to eat today than I do about my fellow brothers and sisters dying all over the World. If Bush wants to claim that he cares about the people of this World, and that he wants to take care of his fellow Americans and keep them safe, then I want him to f-ckin prove it! He's a liar! A bold faced liar! He has the World's attention focused on the Middle East for a reason. He has blinded us all to the reality of our own situation here at home. It's all part of their agenda. Don't fall for it. Don't ever fall for it. If you allow for people to put fear into your body, by telling you that you are "unsafe", and that they have the answer to the problem for you, then you have become your own fool. Because you are NEVER 100% safe. People are dying everyday! Everywhere! For different reasons! 99% of which is not Terrorism! 

People who are asleep! Wake the F-ck up!

This is not a game. We are not puppets. 

Wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RyzinEnagy (Aug 16, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> My experience has always been that for some reason, people turn a blind eye to this entire NWO situation because they figure as long as they got their cars, their girls, their money in their wallets, and their families to come home to, that whatever else thats going on in the World really doesn't matter. As long as it's not happening anywhere near them or their neighborhood of course.
> 
> It's a big joke. Really. Too many people buy into the concept that, if you believe that Life is peachy, then it's peachy.
> 
> ...



I wonder if you still believe if all those predictions you made a while ago about the "pole shift" and ultimate world destruction will happen by the end of the decade.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 16, 2006)

RyzinEnagy said:


> I wonder if you still believe if all those predictions you made a while ago about the "pole shift" and ultimate world destruction will happen by the end of the decade.



Absolutely.

Only I didn't make those predictions. I merely posted them.


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## RyzinEnagy (Aug 17, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Only I didn't make those predictions. I merely posted them.



Will you survive this most harrowing event in human history?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*John Rankin (U. S. Representative on the floor of the House of Representatives):* 

"The United Nations is the greatest fraud in all history. Its purpose is to destroy the United States." 


*Malachi Martin (The Keys of This Blood):* 

"At the round table of international politics, no ruler could command, no government could function without the nod of the Roman Pope." 


*Robert Anton Wilson (Cosmic Trigger II):* 

"Language and hypnosis form the foundation on which Humans create Worlds of consciousness and of fantasy....Very few people know how to dehypnotize themselves."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*Original Writings of the Order of the Sect of the Illuminati:* 

_"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; never let it appear in any place in it's own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation."_


*Illuminati Requirements: - (a)* Always remain hidden behind the scenes, *(b)* never let your true identity and purpose be known, *(c)* keep the truth hidden from the people. 


*Manly P. Hall:* 

"Freemasonry is a faternity within a faternity - an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elite." 


*Alice Bailey (A World Problem, 1950):* 

"A new world religion is on its way to externalize the Earth. It is the Masonic ritual, the role of the Solar Angel."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*Texe Marrs:* 

"These men of the Secret Brotherhood are not like you and me. They believe in magic. Theirs is the strange and bizarre World of ritual alchemy, the recitation of mantras, of words of power, the study of esoteric philosophies, and the mysterious display of arcane New Age symbols...no one would suspect for a moment what actually goes on in the deep, dark recesses of their diabolical minds...The Secret Brotherhood holds you and I in utter contempt. Their deceitful actions will demonstrate their contemptuous attitude toward us. All their lives they have been taught the necessity of deceiving the masses." 


*A. K. Chesterton (The New Unhappy Lords):* 

"A conspiracy of Worldwide dimensions does exist and unless we manage to defeat the conspirators, no matter how great the odds against us, we shall have nothing to pass on to our successors except the certainty of enslavement."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Don't listen to what certain people tell you when they say that Lucifer is not the Dark Angel that fell from Heaven. Because He most certainly is. 

It was Lucifer (The Devil) who tempted Jesus.

Lucifer (among his many other names) is the Dark Angel. The "Fallen Angel" that used to be a member of "Heaven".

Lucifer fell from "Heaven". Satan is another name for Lucifer.

Lucifer chose to leave God on his own accord. Now he is condemned to Earth until it is decided otherwise.

Lucifer is Evil. He represents the Dark. He is the opposite of Good. He lead other Angels astray from Heaven during his rebellion.

He was an important Angel while he was in "Heaven" doing God's work. Greed overtook him. Now he sits in misery and boredom.

Don't be fooled. Upper level Masons worship the darkness. George Bush and other such high level Masons are a part of the whole program. They trick you everytime they get on tv and lie to you. 

Don't fall for it anymore. Don't listen to their words. Just watch their actions closely.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*From the bible:* 

*14:12* How have you fallen from heaven, Lucifer, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations.
*(Isaiah, Judaica Press Tanakh)*


The meaning of the word Lucifer is light-bearer. The Scriptural basis for applying this name to Satan can be found in Isaiah 14:12. The Catholic Douay-Rheims version translates Day Star as Lucifer, whereas the Catholic Edition of the Revised Standard Version (RSV CE) uses the more linguistically accurate Day Star. In the literal sense of the scripture verse, the Babylonian empire is being referenced. However, in the spiritual sense, the Church has long recognized that the passage speaks of a fallen angel, namely Satan:

_How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! (RSV CE)._

A New Testament passage that somewhat parallels the spiritual sense of 

*Isaiah 14:12 can be found in Luke 10:18 which states:* 

_And he said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven._

For more reading on the angels, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, nos. 391-95, 414, and 760. See also the entry for Demons in the Catechisms Index.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

In contrast with the good qualities, the evil and the indifferent ones originate not in the goodness and wisdom of God, whose substance underlies the universe, but in the blindness and willfulness of certain spiritual entities.

True "Angels of Light" are spirits, upon whom great power, wisdom and holiness have been bestowed by God.

The word Angel means "messenger", for the most frequent role of angels is that of messengers and mediators between the PLEROMA and the world of humans.

There are supposably nine orders or "choirs" of angels: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions (or Dominations), Virtues, Powers, Principalities (Kingdoms), Archangels and Angels. The canonical scriptures mention three angels by name: the Archangels Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. The Gnostic church adds to these a fourth: Uriel. Gnostic scriptures mention most of these angels and add numerous others such as the rescuer of Gnostics, Eleleth, and many others.

Positive Angels help Humans by praying for them, by acting as messengers between the PLEROMA and our earthly dwelling place, and by serving as our guardian angels.

Guardian angels pray for us, protect us from spiritual harm (or at times also from physical harm).

The visitation of the Holy Virgin Mary by the Archangel Gabriel and the revelation of the Koran to Mohammed by the same Archangel are two examples of Angels who were supposed to have been seen.

*There are spiritual beings who have become estranged from God and from the PLEROMA and who are thus at best unwise and at worst evil.

They are found primarily in connection with the material universe and its mental and emotional aspects, for they are primarily responsible for the creation and management of the negative realms and for the suffering and sorrow that abide therein.

Another much older name for Lucifer/Satan was Demiurge or "half-maker" because he was supposed to have taken the divine substance and fashioned out of it a world. He is the spiritual being who had become forgetful of his origins, even of God. He thinks that he is God and there is no other God before him.

In Gnostic scriptures he is called YALDABAOTH (child of chaos), SACLAS (fool) and SAMAEL (blind one). Later he was at times identified with LUCIFER or SATAN, the prince of the powers of air.

Not all the images of God in the Old Testament come from the same source. A good many are descriptions of the Demiurge. Some, such as those in the Wisdom Literature and in some Psalms, are of a much more exalted nature. Some Gnostic teachers held that the teachings of the Old Testament were a mixture attributable to three sources: the Demiurge, the elders of Israel and the True God.

Aside from Lucifer (Also known as Demiurge and or Satan) There is suppose to exist monstrosities of evil which populate hellish regions in association with earth. Their origins are unknown. The name of one demon mentioned in Gnostic scriptures is YACHTANABAS, although there are others.*


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

According to Greek philosophy the Demiurge (The Devil) is not necessarily identical with God, and he may be distinct from and inferior to the supreme spirit, though he may also be the practical expression of the reason of God, the Logos as operative in the harmony of the universe. In this sense, i.e. that of a world-maker distinct from the Supreme God, Demiurge became a common term in Gnosticism. The Gnostics, however, were not satisfied merely to emphasize the distinction between the Supreme God, or God the Father, and the Demiurge, but in many of their systems they conceived the relation of the Demiurge to the Supreme God as one of actual antagonism, and the Demiurge became the personification of the power of evil, the Satan, with whom the faithful had to wage war to the end that they might be pleasing to the Good God.

The term Demiurge became still more complicated when in some systems he was identified with the Old Testament, and was brought in opposition to Christ of the New Testament, the Only-Begotten Son of the Supreme and Good God. The purpose of Christ's coming as Saviour and Redeemer (According to the New Testament) was to rescue us from the power of the Demiurge, the lord of the world of this darkness, and bring us to the light of the Good God, His Father in heaven.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Don't let people blind you with a lie.

Lucifer was and still is an Evil Being.

Higher Masons worship Lucifer. Lucifer is the Devil and he presides over the material World.

I believe God views the attatchment to things that don't last forever as vanity. Purposeful obedience and attatchment to The Material World would place a person in the position of committing vanity.

Things that don't last forever are considered vain. 

Anything that lasts forever is considered of the highest priority in Heaven.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Many if not all of the higher level Masons are attatched to the Material World indeed. I know it from the way they treat the World as well as society in General.

The primary tool that the "Controllers" use for their agenda is money. 

Money can be seen as the material World at it's finest either in terms of either positive use or negative.

When you understand the greed that surrounds these types of Secret Societies and their purposes, you will understand how it all evolves around the Material World and the Devil.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Many people who worship the Devil care greatly about destruction and separation from the Father. They are trapped in their own Mind-Prison. A Mind-Prison that they created for themselves. A snare so to speak.

They have no conscience.


3 qualities of such a person are these:


*1.* They don't like God.

*2.* They don't like Animals.

*3.* They don't like Children.


Watch out for people such as that.


Watch for those 3 qualities whenever you run into somebody who you are not sure you can trust.

If they state one of those three things to you, it would be best to stay away from them. Don't bother asking them why they feel that way....because there answer can never be justified.

If they don't state them to you, but yet their actions prove to be otherwise...it would be best to stay away from them.

The same goes for if they lie to you. Politicians lie all the time to every one of us. Never go by what a person says. Let that spark your interest. But never let it determine or influence your reality.

Go by what they do.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

The three things that many Satanists are most known for:


*1.* Their Sacrifice of Children.

*2.* Their Sacrifice of Animals.

*3.* Their condemnation for God.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*Some more stuff relating to Lucifer/Satan (The Dark Angel):*


Satan is said to be an angel (Job 1-2). God is supposed to have made him before the world began (Job 38:4-7). Satan is said to be very powerful and very wise But he became the first sinner (1 John 3:8). Apparently at one point in the past (or possibly future) he led a rebellion in heaven against God (Revelation 12:7). In Satans fall, he drew a vast number of angels with him (Revelation 12:4, 9). Some of the fallen angels are loose and some are bound in a place called the Abyss (Luke 8:31). The loose ones we call "demons". Of the bound ones, there are two kinds, permanently bound (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) and temporarily bound (Revelation 9:1-11). Satan and his demons now wage war against Gods kingdom (Revelation 12:17). Satan now dwells on earth (Job 1:7). At the Second Coming of Christ, he will be bound for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). After the thousand years, he will be set free for a short time and will go out to deceive the nations (Revelation 20:7-9). The devils final end will be in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10), which was prepared by God for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*A scripture relating to Lucifer/Satan the Devil:*

"Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God: "You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. 16 By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones. 17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor . . ." *Ezekiel 28:12*


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## Gunny (Oct 10, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> *Some more stuff relating to Lucifer/Satan (The Dark Angel):*
> 
> 
> Satan is said to be an angel (Job 1-2). God is supposed to have made him before the world began (Job 38:4-7). Satan is said to be very powerful and very wise But he became the first sinner (1 John 3:8). Apparently at one point in the past (or possibly future) he led a rebellion in heaven against God (Revelation 12:7). In Satans fall, he drew a vast number of angels with him (Revelation 12:4, 9). Some of the fallen angels are loose and some are bound in a place called the Abyss (Luke 8:31). The loose ones we call "demons". Of the bound ones, there are two kinds, permanently bound (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) and temporarily bound (Revelation 9:1-11). Satan and his demons now wage war against Gods kingdom (Revelation 12:17). Satan now dwells on earth (Job 1:7). At the Second Coming of Christ, he will be bound for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). After the thousand years, he will be set free for a short time and will go out to deceive the nations (Revelation 20:7-9). The devils final end will be in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10), which was prepared by God for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).



Just what the Hell is your major malfunction?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Under the figure of "King of Tyrus," Ezekiel declares that this great created being "had the seal of perfection, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty." *Ezekiel 28:1219* describes Satans original state as the anointed cherub who was not only a created being, but created perfect (vss. 12-13). He enjoyed the highest position and honor in the presence of God (28:14, 16). Further, Isaiah spoke of him as Lucifer, star of the morning , son of the dawn - Isaiah *14:12-15*. He was on the holy mountain of God and every precious stone was his covering. He was set there as "the anointed covering cherub" by God and walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire. He was perhaps the appointed guardian of the holiness of God, probably over this original planet earth. The inspired record says, "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" - *Ezekiel. 28:12-15*.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*Scriptures relating to Lucifer/Satan's fall:*


But what exactly was the character or nature of Satans iniquity? As suggested by 1 *Timothy 3:6-7* and *Ezekiel 28:17*, though created perfect by God (*Ezek. 28:13-15*), it was conceit or pride that welled up in his heart because of his beauty and high position that led to arrogant aspirations and to his sin and fall. In *Isaiah 14:12-15* and in *Ezekiel 28:12-19*, we have a remarkable account of the original place which Satan once had as "Lucifer, son of the morning." His fall from this original, exalted place, of perhaps the greatest of created angelic beings, is given in these Scriptures. These arrogant aspirations are described for us in *Isaiah 14:12-17*: pride, selfwill, iniquity, rebellion, and violence are the reasons. Because of his pride and aspirations to be like God, he became Gods chief adversary (Heb. Satan). After this, he is never again called by any of these prestigious titles. Instead, he is called by terms that reflect his fallen character and hostility to God and men, like liar, murderer, Satan (adversary), the evil one, Abaddon (destruction), Apollyon (destroyer), Belial (worthless), serpent, and dragon. 

Scotus, however points out that this sin was not pride properly so called, but should rather be described as a species of spiritual lust. 

Although nothing definite can be known as to the precise nature of the probation of the angels and the manner in which many of them fell, many theologians have conjectured, with some show of probability, that the mystery of the Divine Incarnation was revealed to them, that they saw that a nature lower than their own was to be hypostatically united to the Person of God the Son, and that all the hierarchy of heaven must bow in adoration before the majesty of the Incarnate Word; and this, it is supposed, was the occasion of the pride of Lucifer.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Furthermore, we learn from *Ezekiel 28* that Lucifer engaged in a multitude of traffic, which means "going about." He is said to have filled heaven with violence and rebellion. 

"Thou has defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic" 

Thus Lucifer instigated violence and rebellion among the heavenly hosts before man was created, and those who followed him became his angels or demons. Seeking to overthrow God and rule heaven, Lucifer assembled an army of apostate angels and initiated a war in heaven. 

In the book of Revelation we read about a war in heaven between Michael and the angels who remained loyal to God and the dragon, "called the Devil, and Satan," and his angels. Then Satan and his angels were defeated by Michael, and were thrown down from heaven to hell. 

And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. *Revelation 12:7-9*


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## manu1959 (Oct 10, 2006)

NW should cast out the demons......satan hath possed him


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*The Five I Wills of Rebellion*


Isaiah points us to five I wills coming from the proud and boastful heart of Satan that describe the nature of his aspiration *(Isa. 14:13-14)*. In each of these I wills Satan pitted his will against the will of God. He substituted his will for Gods will and, significantly, these five statements expressed by Satan manifest the very essence of sin: it is the will of the creature set against the will and appointment of the Creator.


*Satan's "I Wills":*


*I will ascend to heaven.

I will raise my throne above the stars of God.

I will sit on the mount of the assembly in the recesses of the north.* 

This describes Satans ambition to control all the affairs of the universe as the assembly of Babylonian gods supposedly did. Often in Scripture, mountain and hills refer to authority or the right to rule. 

*I will ascend above the heights of the clouds.* 

According to *Exodus 16:10 and Revelation 19:1*, clouds are often associated with Gods glory and presence. This I will expressed Satans desire to usurp the glory that belonged to God.

*I will make myself like the Most High.* 

Lucifer was not satisfied with the exalted place he had in the creation of God. Ezekiel says, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness" *(Ezek. 28:17)*. So he purposed to exalt himself and his throne and aimed to be like God Himself. Note the contradiction in Satans own thinking here. To become like God was first of all to admit that he was not God. He was only a created being, one created by the Creator.


*Isaiah 2:2 reads:*

Now it will come about that in the last days, the mountain of the house of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains, and will be raised above the hills; and all the nations will stream to it.

This anticipates Messiahs rule or kingdom, called here the mountain of the house of the Lord, and all the other kingdoms, mountains and hills, will be under His kingdom. So this I will of Satan expressed his determination to rule over the affairs of the entire created universe.

*Pentecost writes:*

When Lucifer said, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, he was saying, I will take to myself a greater glory than belongs to God Himself. You will remember that Ezekiel described the beauty and the glory that belonged to Lucifer in terms of the sun shining on polished gems. But the glory that belonged to Lucifer was not inherently his; it was a reflected glory. God, who is the author of glory, God, who is the all glorious One, revealed his glory through the work that came from His hand. How insane the thinking of this one that he could add glory to the infinite glory of God. It suggests that there was a deficiency in the glory of God and that Lucifer could complete that which was lacking.

Here his counterfeit is crystal clear. Satan wanted to be like, not unlike, God. The name Elyon for God stresses Gods strength and sovereignty (Gen. 14:18). Satan wanted to be as powerful as God. He wanted to exercise the authority and control in this world that rightfully belongs only to God. His sin was a direct challenge to the power and authority of God.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Here's a good question for you guys. 

Could The Illuminati And The U.S. Government Be Planning Concentration Camps For People Who Believe In God? 

What....here goes Nuclear again....talking all his nonsense right? Well guess what.....if this turns out to be True, which I believe it is, you might just find yourself as a member of one of these camps. 

And this "theory" is pritty creepy. 

So what does this mean for all of us who believe in the Supreme Creator/God and Jesus Christ? What will become of all of us when these people truly gain control of our entire country? 

They are using the "security" factor to get us all to let them try and keep more on more tabs on the people here almost as if they are trying to eventually reach a point where we will all need ID cards that the government has for all of us to travel from place to place, so that they have our information and so that when their "Master Plan" or "Global Agenda" is put in place, they can find us when they need to. 

Why in the world would the Illuminati/Satanists want to allow people who believe in God (at least for the next 6 years why they will still be in power) to roam free and continue to practice our beliefs? 

What will they do to try and stop us all while they still have a chance? 

Well, with what I am about to post, it may seem a little far out to you guys, and it even does to me, but the more I think about it, the more I have to post it because I can at least say that there is obvious reason to believe that Satanists and the Illuminati do not want people who believe in the One True Supreme Creator - God - to be around on this planet for too much longer. I mean why would they? It totally goes against their beliefs, and it undermines their authority. 

But anyways I'm just going to get straight to the post here, you guys can decide for yourselves whether it can be a possibility for us during the next 6 years or not.....


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Perhaps several years ago, many people who believe in God/Christ would not give heed to such a message as this. Only in recent months are many believers suddenly waking up to the sobering reality that we may be facing end time persecution in our nation as never before. Terrorist events never thought possible to occur on our soil have happened. And now, on the wings of public outcry over the twin tragedies of September 11, 2001, draconian laws are being raced through Congress, supposedly in the effort to help curb terrorism, but suspiciously beginning to sound as if we are slowly being turned into a police state. (Go to "www.infowars.com" for more on the coming police state.) 

Many groups and civil liberties organizations are alarmed at what is unfolding in our nation. Are our liberties being sacrificed for "security?" And who can prove that surrendering vital liberties has EVER brought forth "security" or "protection? Some of the harshest dictatorships with the most stringent and oppressive laws in place have provided no genuine security for it's citizens, only oppression and greater controls over the people. 

The emerging government/intelligence community definition of "terrorist" is vague, but perhaps quite deliberately. What IS the definition of a "terrorist?" Great penalties are now being dictated both against "terrorists" and those who "harbor terrorists." "Suspected terrorists" can now be detained indefinitely, without a warrant. The term "potential terrorist" is also being used as well. 

But what is a "potential terrorist?" You would be concerned to know that under the Clinton Administration, Louis Freeh (former director of the FBI) and Janet Reno (former U.S. Attorney General) put forth the Justice Department's latest definition of a "potential terrorist," which still stands. A copy of this disturbing report was smuggled out of the Justice Department during the Clinton Administration.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Read the following carefully and decide if YOU might fit into their category of a "potential terrorist": 


*US Attorney General Janet Reno has sent a confidential memo to the U.S. attorneys that an investigation would take place against "right wing and fundamentalist Christ believers." 

It states that investigation and surveillance of right wing political groups and fundamentalists, religious organizations and individuals will take place in certain states. Dossiers on targeted individuals are to be compiled and retained in the Washington, D.C. in the Justice Department.* 


_*"In the event of a wide spread uprising (as in martial law or a national disaster) these individuals must be viewed as "potential terrorists."*_ 

*- Janet Reno, former U.S. Attorney General* 


Wait wait, let's take a look at her statement again to see who is going to be a victim of "martial law" as she called it. 

Right wing political groups and fundamentalists, religious organizations and individuals. 

Hmmmm....do you fit into any of those categories?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Now are you alarmed? With our nation in this present state of national disaster and increasing turmoil as biological warfare agents are being mailed out and reports of new threats surface continually, can you see that the above document refers to this time frame we are in? 

Do you begin to understand the sobering implications of the term "potential terrorist?" Many Americans could nod their heads in agreement over the harsh new laws being enacted against "potential terrorists," naively thinking that the government's definition of such terrorists might be "wild eyed Moslem religious fanatics" intent on inflicting terror and pain on "the great Satan," America. But now you know there is a much broader definition of "terrorist" that the government has in mind! And that broader definition includes "right wing political groups, fundamentalist believers in God, religious organizations and individuals." 

NOW that you realize this, can you nod your head in agreement over these laws being passed...when you realize they can be used against YOU??? Against your Church? Against your Pastor? Against your religious organization? Against your belief system?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Right wing groups also include America's militias as well, not surprisingly. And note how they are now being targeted WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATION as "potential sources" for the anthrax scare! Today it is both Moslem extremists and America's militias being targeted: tomorrow will it be America's Spiritual people/Christ believers and other "potential terrorists"? 

People are beginning to become alarmed when they begin to hear government sources being interviewed on national television following September 11th, who constantly used this term "potential terrorists." For most fellow Americans, the hidden meaning was veiled. But for researchers like myself, the term "police state" began to register in my mind. And with it, the indication of end time persecution that will accompany it for the Believers in America. 

All that I have been hearing recently in various news reports tends to confirm the hidden government agenda of intense persecution of the Believers in America to come. And, how such persecution would be activated under the great national disasters anticipated to come to our nation (and tragically welcomed or actually encouraged by those elements who have long planned to use such circumstances to bring this persecution into operation and the New World Order into power.)


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Those who study Bible prophecy have long known that great persecution of believers in Christ shall come to every nation, especially in the end times prior to Jesus Christ's return (In consciousness or physical form). Matthew 24 makes this abundantly clear. 

*Matthew 24:3 -* And as He sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately and saying, "tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end?" (Note carefully the time frame they are speaking of, and realize that He is speaking especially of this end-time period prior to His return). 

Jesus begins to explain to them many things. He warns of false Christ's, wars and rumors of wars, of nation rising against nation. He warns them of famines and pestilences and earthquakes in many different places. But then He states that "All these are the beginning of sorrows." 

He then begins to expound on the coming reality of end-time persecution. 

*Matthew 24:9 -* "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you, and YE SHALL BE HATED OF ALL NATIONS for My name's sake. And THEN shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another."


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## Gunny (Oct 10, 2006)

manu1959 said:


> NW should cast out the demons......satan hath possed him




Y'think he's related to psychoblues and this crap is hereditary?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Jesus speaks of false prophets arising and deceiving many. 

*Matthew 24:11 -* He reveals that iniquity, or rebellion, will abound, and the love of many shall grow cold as a result. 

(We know we are witnessing that hour in which rebellion is abounding and even glorified, both in America and throughout the world. Acts of rebellion which people were formerly ashamed of are now being paraded openly in public and glorified on televisions and movies and rap music.) 

He concludes this passage describing the nature of end-time persecution before His return by stating, *"BUT HE THAT SHALL ENDURE UNTO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED ."* *Matthew 24:13* 

Note carefully that He did NOT say, "But he that is RAPTURED, the same shall be saved," but rather "He that shall ENDURE UNTO THE END, the same shall be saved." This is speaking of overcoming persecution and temptation and remaining faithful to Jesus Christ even unto death, and it is speaking clearly in the context of end-time persecution.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Only under a coming ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT that is against God and His Christ (the "New World Order" as it is often referred to today) can believers in Jesus Christ be simultaneously hated in every nation. Jesus declares that ALL NATIONS shall hate His followers in the end times prior to His return, and deliver them up to be afflicted (persecution) and to ultimately be put to death. 

And when Jesus states "ALL NATIONS," He means "all nations." All nations must then include the United States of America, in order to fulfill His prophetic word which cannot be broken. 

Many believers in Christ have lived under the present delusion that serious persecution unto imprisonment and martyrdom can NEVER take place in America. They point to America's God-fearing founders, the Constitution, First Amendment rights, etc., and many other factors to insist that end-time persecution of this nature can not happen on American soil. Or, they insist that before such persecution could ever take place, the "Rapture" will occur (even before they can "suffer the loss of a hangnail" for Jesus' sake) and they will be taken out from end-time persecution before it can come. 

Both of these doctrines are deceptions. They have no foundation in the Word of God and in the words of Jesus Christ (Who IS the Word of God.)


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Jesus Christ declared firmly that end time persecution would come to His followers in ALL NATIONS. And that he that ENDURES TO THE END would be saved. (NOT he that is "Raptured!") In fact, He even warned that there would be times (undoubtedly of severe persecution) in which His disciples would long to see the hour of His coming, but that it would not necessarily occur at that desired time to rescue them. 

Jesus spoke these words to give a foundation of understanding to His people, and to His believers who would face these tribulations in the end-times as well. He wants His people/people who have accepted God into their life in one form or another to be prepared for the things that they are called to suffer for His name's sake, so that no one might be overcome of evil nor unprepared to face such testing. He warns His people, so that they might begin to prepare themselves spiritually to endure and overcome what they are to face for His sake. 

As people have traveled across America, they have been saddened and disappointed by the response of many pastors and many believers in God to this pertinent information. They have turned aside from the truth embodied in end-time prophecy, in order to embrace the doctrine of "the Rapture" or have said that "... because of America's Godly heritage in it's beginning, such incidents of persecution could NEVER happen in America."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

People have repeatedly heard pastors lead their congregations to believe that before end-time persecution can come upon the Believers in America, the Rapture will come! Yet, this has not proven to be the reality in many nations in recent decades for people who believe in Christ. We know that millions died in Russia and the former Soviet Union for their faith and unwavering testimony of Jesus Christ. How many have died in China for their faith? How many in the Sudan? Indonesia? Nepal? Cuba? Africa? And all within less than the past one hundred years. 

For such persecuted believers, there was no Rapture to save them from end-time persecution. Rather, the Words of Jesus Christ held true: "He that endureth unto the end, the same shall be saved." 

Did you know that America is filled with unknown martyrs? Although the names of many of them will never be known to us except in eternity, Believers have been dying for their faith in America for many years. How? 

Hard-core Satanism in America, has caused the reality of both children and adults often being targeted and abducted for sacrifice BECAUSE they were believers in Christ (or from homes of people who believe in Christ) and taken away to be brutally tortured and sacrificed. And just because you may have never heard of this means nothing!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

The news media in America IS CIA/Illuminati /government controlled, and they make sure that their people are in place throughout our nation to ensure blackout of such information to the average American. 

America's Satanists are very well organized and operate under a high level of covertness to protect their names, reputations, and legally. In reports from _SATANISM IN AMERICA TODAY_, There have been instances documented in many accounts from former high level Satanists of people being targeted BECAUSE they were believers in Christ. They were stalked, abducted, and sacrificed for their faith. 

As one previous Satanist admitted, "Satan was demanding Christ's followers for sacrifice, and by golly, we obliged him. They were targeted, stalked and sacrificed like all the rest..." (From a former CIA assassin, Satanist leader in one state, now a Christ follower/lecturer exposing the occult.)


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

One eye-witness account from the mountains of NC admitted that, as a Satanist, she participated in the abduction of a well known believer in Christ who was a witness/intercessor in that region that the local Satanists hated. She was abducted while walking home on a rural road at dusk. Their van pulled up next to her, men jumped out and seized her and she was thrown into the back of the van. Her mouth, hands and feet were then duct-taped and she was injected with a knock-out drug. When she revived, she found herself chained naked to a Satanic altar deep in the heart of the Great Smoky Mountains, in a massive cave known to all Satanists in that region. 

She was then tempted to deny Jesus Christ as they offered to let her live IF she would work for them to infiltrate churches, spy on Christians, etc. According to this former Satanist' account, she refused. Her only reply was: "I BELIEVE IN CHRIST!" And they then proceeded to torture her most brutally, until she finally died. The former Satanist friend never forgot this. And her father, who participated in the martyrdom of this young woman, eventually became a Believer in Christ as well.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Other eye-witness accounts from the cases documented include followers of Christ being abducted and nailed to literal crosses and tortured to death. One abducted pastor pleaded with his Satanist persecutors to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Savior, even after he was nailed to such a cross. Finally wearying of his Christian witness, one Satanist took a knife and slashed his throat to silence him. He died on that cross for the testimony of Jesus Christ...in the heart of those mountains known as "the Bible Belt." (People, how little so many of you know about true persecution in America!) 

From Indiana, we have the testimony of former high priestess Elaine, now a Christian exposing Satanism. Elaine's daughter Claudia, also being trained at one time to become a high priestess like her mother, admitted: "We Satanists in Indiana even invented a cross that would separate in the middle after the victim was crucified. We also designed wooden spikes instead of metal nails, because it would inflict more pain on the victim. After the victim was nailed to the cross, they were then torn to pieces as we separated the cross into two sections..." believers in God were frequently their victims, both adult and child.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Friends, how many times has this scene been repeated throughout the centuries, beginning with the early believers in Christ??? When Christ's followers were brought before Roman tribunals and questioned about their faith, they had a choice. Throw a pinch of incense on the altar to Caesar and declare him to be "divine" ("Caesar is lord") OR to boldly declare "I am a believer in Christ" And for their confession of "I am a follower of Christ" and refusal to bow the knee to Caesar, history records that they were brutally tortured and killed, not even young believers being spared. 

Throughout the centuries such persecutions have been repeated worldwide...YET the believers have survived, overcome and even grown during such times. We faithful of God/Christ in America have this great potential to both overcome and to grow, even during the coming season of great persecution. For we, too, are called to be FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH and to be overcomers in the midst of tribulation. 

However, the people of God are not being prepared realistically in America for end-time persecution and martyrdom to come in America. Most of Christs followers are NOT being prepared to "contend earnestly for the faith." In fact, many have compromised their witness and testimony of Jesus Christ even under normal circumstances. Often, when threatened to "leave your beliefs in God or Christ out of the workplace," they have consented and refused to be the witnesses for Christ God's Word calls them to be. Often compromise with any of Jesus's texts can begin quite slowly and subtly, but eventually lead to a tragic denial of Jesus Christ in the end. Of this we must beware.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

So many are sitting back and hoping for a "Rapture" to take them out before they could ever face end time persecution and martyrdom for His name's sake. Yet they have NOT ONE SCRIPTURE TO STAND ON that conclusively declares this expected scenario to be fulfilled! 

NOT ONE SCRIPTURE! In fact, they have just the opposite, as revealed in Matthew 24. 

*Matthew 24 -* "But they have hearkened to the voices of false prophets from behind many pulpits, who have prophesied to them falsely that such end time persecution will not overtake them, and they shall escape by the "Rapture." 

By the way, are we living in the time period close to the second coming of Jesus Christ? Of course! Many end-time Bible prophecies being fulfilled in this generation make plain we are living in the end-time period near to His return. But again, since Jesus plainly declared that NO ONE knows the day nor the hour, again it is presumptuous for North American Christians to believe that the "Rapture" will be based upon their desire to escape end-time persecution and hence avoid testing and refining. We are given no such promise that He will return just in time to escape prophesied end-time persecution.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Folks....I believe that this so called "END TIMES" period began in the year 2005 for the World. I also believe that It will last until the year 2012. We are only in the beginning stages of it. This in my opinion IS the 7 year tribulation period.

If you can survive these next 6 years, than I believe that you can survive anything the World throws at you.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Hear what happened to Chinese believers of Christ, prior to communist takeover in China, who were told by their pastors, "...you have nothing to worry about...before the communists can take over and persecute you, we will be raptured!" Yes, this was commonly taught in China in the churches at that time, as Christ's followers became uneasy over the rise of communism to power. Yet...there was NO "Rapture" to take out the Chinese believers in God when communism came to power. They instead found themselves arrested, imprisoned, tortured for their faith and martyred. And their persecutions and martyrdoms continue to this day. And reports began to come out of China of the Believers cursing their pastors and becoming angry at God because of this! 

"Pastor! How could this happen! You said we would be raptured before we would ever be arrested and persecuted! How could you have failed to prepare us! How could God fail us?" 

And the reality was, God did not fail them. Christ's words plainly revealed what would come under end time persecution to His people. God fails no one! But sadly, often His pastors DO. And such Pastors then become false prophets to His people. And tragically, God's people often PREFER false prophets in the pulpits of their Churches, whenever the truth is too hard to bear and is something their flesh does not want!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Pastors often stated that they could never reveal such truth because they might then frighten and lose members (hence lose money through loss of tithes). Yes, 501-C-3 compromised Pastors have proven many times they love numbers and money MORE than the truth and more than the Souls of their congregations. 

The members of these congregations falsely taught that "peace and plenty" was what the future held for America, and that they would be "Raptured" out of all persecution to come, even now cursing their Pastors and becoming angry at God as everything God's Word warned of begins to be fulfilled...this time on American soil. 

(Friends, don't even bother to curse such Pastors: they are already under the laws of Karma for failing to prepare His people for this hour of testing! And the blood of those who fall away as a result of their false teachings will be upon the hands of such Pastors, who have prophesied falsely to them of "peace and prosperity" when prophecy revealed something quite different.)


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

In the recent past since the double tragedy that destroyed so many lives in New York City and Washington, DC, we now see a foretaste of the persecution that is coming to this nation now surfacing in the form of new laws that already are threatening the civil liberties of all Americans. In fact, recently an FBI officer confronted researcher Al Martin (a man whose work in exposing the truth behind the government corruption and the New World Order, etc.) He was warned that within a year, he could be arrested for "seditious talk" for making such statements formerly protected under the First Amendment rights. 

Could other believers in God also be arrested for "seditious talk" under the new laws to be enacted? Could Christ's followers witnessing in public or broadcasting on radio be labeled by THEIR definition to be "seditious talk?" Consider it a great possibility. But does this mean that we are to stop our belief systems? NEVER! 

Remember: your liberties that come from believening Christ did NOT originate nor come from the US government! They come from Almighty God. It is God Himself that has given you this marvelous liberty through faith in Jesus Christ. The state did not give it to you, and the state cannot take it away. Now, we know it is a spiritual liberty, that we have been set free from the power of rebellion through faith in Jesus Christ. But what we experience in the spiritual must also be manifested into the physical realm as well, for it to be true liberty in the fullest sense.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

"Stand fast therefore in the LIBERTY wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again in the yoke of bondage." *Galatians 5:1* 

People in America, will you not realistically prepare your hearts for the coming hour of the cup of testing, persecution and martyrdom that all of Christ's follwers in America may end up drinking of for prophecy to be fulfilled? And will you not also prepare yours hearts to RISE UP in FAITH AND VICTORY to OVERCOME THE ENEMY in this hour? 

Your hidden persecutors are many, and they extend into the White House and the highest levels of our government and our military. Many people believe that Justice Department investigators have already defined you follwers of God as "resisters of the New World Order" and secretly condemned you to be arrested and put to death, your organizations and homes to be seized by FEMA and foreign troops and confiscated, and decreed persecution for all those who would offer resistance.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

The concentration camps throughout America are supposably many, and the thousands of boxcars with shackles are possibly waiting to transport countless souls to these camps to be persecuted and terminated for their faith and resistance to Satan's agenda for this nation. 

FEMA officials have already boasted openly to various Pastors that, when martial law is declared in America, they are going to seize their belief organizations (all quite "legally") and turn them into command posts for their bases of operation! The foreign troops (Russian, German, Chinese and others) trained to arrest you (even at many of our own military bases such as Fort Polk, LA) and transport you to these detention camps number well over 2,000,000. 

German Bundeswehr/Luftwaffe (Army/Air Force) soldiers are present in America and Canada by the thousands and are stationed in over one hundred bases and facilities, and have boasted openly, both in Germany and America, that they are in America for the hour of martial law. They have admitted to some that they will NOT have a problem performing what they have been sent to do: arresting and firing upon American citizens! 

And to add to this, AWACS from Germany are now present in America, to patrol our airspace in anticipation of widespread uprising under coming martial law. The military has admitted to us they will deploy chem-bio weapons to help weaken the resolve of the American Patriot to resist the UN/NATO New World Order takeover of our nation. CIA insiders have admitted that many of these detention camps are also termination camps, and the Church in America is one of the major targets of removal and elimination under martial law.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

It is not inconceivable that, in the future, you will see uncompromised followers of Christ arrested, transported to boxcars filled with shackles, to be transported to one of the many documented gassing/crematory facilities to be persecuted and slain for their unwavering confession of their faith and refusal to compromise their beliefs in God. It is also conceivable that you will witness them being dragged out and tortured for the mass public executions anticipated of those deemed "resisters of the New World Order." 

And if you deem yourself to be a committed believer in Christ, Constitutionalist, Patriot, etc. it is truly possible to find yourself among them. There may soon be coming an hour in which the blood of the martyrs of Jesus Christ will flow in the streets and detention camps of America. 

There may soon be coming a time in which the skies above designated detention/ termination camps will be blackened with the smoke of cremated bodies of those end-time saints who will refuse to bow the knee to Satan and his New World Order, who will remain faithful unto God and Jesus Christ even unto death. And that such smoke will arise as sweet incense into the nostrils of the Lord of Sabaoth, as a true testimony of those who gave their lives for God and the testimony of Jesus Christ and "loved not their lives even unto the death." And it is not inconceivable that you may be among them!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

When you think about it....is there no better way even to this day than to transport mass amounts of people from one place to another then the use of boxcars and trains? Pritty creepy. 

The same tools the Nazis used back in the day are still the most efficient form of transport for mass amounts of people.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

*Hear the testimony of Doc Marquis, former Illuminist, regarding this:* 

_"As a former high level Illuminati planner for the New World Order, I was brought to the site of the future FEMA death camp in the Mojave. I knew exactly what it would be used for: the termination of resisters of our 'PLAN' to seize this nation under martial law for our New World Order. My reaction when I stood within it's deadly confines when a Satanist? Sheer joy! I rejoiced over the thought of Christs followers being terminated in this place."_ 

*(Testimony from Doc Marquis, former high level Illuminati, now a follower of Christ and director of Believers EXPOSING THE OCCULT.)* 


There may very well be coming a time throughout America for many believers in which there will be no other option BUT to confess Jesus Christ is Lord before men and to die for that testimony.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

According to author Doc Marquis, a secret association called the Illuminati actually plots to take over the world, but "encoded" their plan to falsely implicate the Jews. To decode the plan, he says, simply change Jew, Jewry, Jewish to Illuminist, Illuminati, Illuminism; Goyim to chattel, and Zion to Sion. The Illuminati's Protocols includes a "decodified" version of the original text, selections from The Protocols, and further information to help readers spot the Illuminati. There's even an appendix that analyses what Marquis calls "The two seals of our doom"--the Great Seals of the United States. 

(Hint: when carefully combined, the words "Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum" and the year MDCCLXXVI contain the letters M-A-S-O-N.)


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

From the declassified documents here is information relating to the "Civilian Inmate Labor Program" that is supposed to be implemented for the concentration camp members (the slaves). 

e. Participants. Only inmates classified as minimum level security will participate in the Civilian Inmate Labor Program. Minimum level security inmates do not need constant guard. Corrections facilities will be responsible for ensuring that only minimum level security inmates participate in the inmate labor program and for selecting inmate participants. 

(1) Memoranda of agreement with the corrections facility will state that the installation commander will direct the 
removal of any inmate deemed undesirable or detrimental in any way to the mission, soldiers, family members, or 
civilian employees of the installation. 

(2) Under no circumstances will the following types of inmates be permitted in the Civilian Inmate Labor Program: 

(a) A person in whom there is a significant public interest as determined by the corrections facility superintendent in 
coordination with the installation commander. 

(b) A person who has been a significant management problem in their current corrections facility or in another 
facility. 

(c) A principal organized crime figure. 

(d) An inmate convicted of a sex offense or whose criminal history includes such conduct. 

(e) An inmate convicted of a violent crime or whose criminal history includes such conduct. 

(f) An inmate convicted of the sale or intent to distribute illegal drugs who held a leadership position in any drug 
conspiracy, or has been involved with drugs within the last 3 years while in prison. 

(g) An escape risk. 

(h) An inmate who poses a threat to the general public as determined by the corrections facility superintendent in 
coordination with the installation commander. 

AR 210


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Civilian Labor Inmate Program? 

WTF people..... 

They are going to work us while we're in there!!! And of course...should that be such a shocker? I mean really...Slavery is their ultimate agenda. 

Keep the good citizens as the obiedient workers, and cut out all the other ones in the article above. Makes sense to me how they would view that situation. Make sure your "Laborers" are not Resisters (Fighters) or Disrupters. 

Looks to me like they already have it all "worked out".


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

http://www.illuminati-news.com/pdf/prison_camps.pdf <--- Document in question. 


All one needs to do is look at this one sentence in the article.... 


_Minimum level security inmates do not need constant guard._ 


Minimum level security inmates? Sounds like the more "obiedient ones". Then it says that they won't need "constant guard". And that makes sense to me too. Why would they? They would be going about their business like they're told to and bowing down for the NWO.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm - This one is pritty good....I'd say it's worth taking a look at. 

http://www.detailshere.com/concentrationcamps2.htm ---- If you looked at that one then I guess you'll have to take a look at this one too. 

http://www.detailshere.com/concentr...mplocations.htm --- This one is supposed to be a list of some of the concentration camps that are built around the country. Not sure if every one of them really is....but hey...I already believe this stuff is coming so...why the hell do I need to be convinced? =)~ 

http://www.detailshere.com/concentrationcamps01.htm --- Supposably an X-CIA members take on the coming concentration camps. 

http://www.infowars.com/cc_archive.htm --- Here's some pritty interesting info. 


Hope you find them interesting AT LEAST. Never throw away valuable information even if you disagree with it. This stuff could all prove to be true, or most of it anyways, and at least you'll have it as a backup in case you need it.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

I don't know about you guys....but chapter 3 of the Document in question that I posted about above is all about how to "Install a civilian inmate labor program" at various army bases within the United States.

And also...how to "negotiate" with correction facilities around the United States.

Serious stuff here folks....I wouldn't hesitate to consider the possibilities.

Anytime you have the words "Army", "Civilian", and "Labor program" all used in the same sentence and within a Government document....It would be cause for GREAT concern.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

I have one memory that stands out relating to Hurricane Katrina much more than the others. And thats the memory of the way our Government and FEMA handled the situation. 

Soldiers blocking off paths to other cities, where people could get food, water, and shelter. 

Ladies in wheelchairs dying, reports of girls getting raped, I ACTUALLY SAW VIDEO FOOTAGE OF PEOPLE ROBBING STORES WHILE THE POLICE SAT BY AND WATCHED! AND THIS WAS ON THE NEWS. 

We're supposed to have one of the most technologically advanced militaries and some of the most advanced equipment in the World! We have boats, fighter planes, jumbo jets, helicopters up the yang, you name it! 

And for almost a week after Hurricane Katrina....our Government, and FEMA along with it, sat back and watched as people died. As people murdered. As people starved. Like it was all a big game for them. 

That was on a minor scale people. Imagine whats going to happen when they take advantage of a major attack on our Homeland. They will announce "Martial Law" on ALL citizens, and when it happens it's going to make Hurricane Katrina look like another day at the Circus.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 10, 2006)

Satanist hate crimes are rampant throughout our nation. Satanist infiltration into church organizations and ministries is widespread. 

The Satanist/Illuminist subculture has successfully infiltrated America's schools, Universities, law enforcement, government, judicial and in fact penetrated every level of our society. They are networking furiously together to bring forth their New World Order/Luciferian based agenda. And they are destroying countless innocent lives in the process, and will destroy millions more in their bloody pursuit. Satanist recruitment into covens is at an all time high...recruiters even go out on Friday nights in college towns or cities and recruit kids on the streets, dressed fully in black robes! 

And where is the Church??? God has commissioned His people unto whom he has entrusted power and authority to wage mighty Spiritual warfare against the works of the enemy. Even the Bible declares "Jesus Christ was manifested to DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL." He did not commission the police...nor the local judge... nor the sheriff's department (they are all infiltrated by Satanists anyhow!) He has commissioned HIS PEOPLE to stand in the gap, to wage war against the enemy who is destroying countless lives across our nation continually. 

Because God has not given us a spirit of FEAR, but of POWER, LOVE and a SOUND MIND, and has continually instructed us to FEAR NOT, we are to therefore march boldly forward with the power of God and CRUSH THE WORKS OF THE ENEMY. 

People should be ashamed of the priests/pastors who have admitted that they are too afraid to deal with Satanism in their city...too afraid to stand up and do something about it. 

It is time to make a difference...NOW! 

Satan has already gotten away with murder unchallenged much too long...and wait 'til you see what they have in mind for YOU under coming martial law!!! Please...help make the difference.


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## Hobbit (Oct 10, 2006)

For the love of all things holy...MAKE IT STOP!!!


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## -Kt Atis- (Oct 11, 2006)

Hobbit said:


> For the love of all things holy...MAKE IT STOP!!!



VOTE YES ON MAKE IT STOP!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

This should be cause for great concern and an awakening of the people of God in America! 

An INFORMED people is an ALERTED PEOPLE and an ACTIVATED PEOPLE! 

And now that our nation is indeed and irrevocably in the ominous beginning stages of martial law, how long will you hide behind denial and refuse to seek the Lord NOW for the grace to remain faithful throughout the testing that is to follow??? NOW is the time to prepare your hearts to seek the Lord. If you have been turning your back to the Creator, REPENT from your rebellion and get right with Him. You will not have the confidence in the Lord that you shall need to stand fast and to overcome, if your heart is not right with God.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

I am a Christian myself (Not exactly in the religious sense), but I believe in Christ. And am a follower of Christ. So therefore, it's going to be pritty hard for me not to mix some of my own beliefs in with my work.

However, I will do my best not to cram it down anyones throat as I post it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Thats for sure.

I believe in God and God's word. I also believe that Christ is God's word. And so I believe in Him too.

Please don't get my beliefs in Jesus and Christ confused however. I believe that Christ has had many forms and that Jesus was only one of them.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

*REFUSE to allow fear to fill your heart, and choose instead to RESPOND WITH FAITH. God has NOT given us a spirit of fear, but of POWER, of LOVE, and a SOUND MIND...the MIND OF CHRIST, to be exact. 

Be FILLED WITH THE [HOLY] SPIRIT. 

Put on the WHOLE ARMOR OF GOD. 

MEDITATE on God's love day and night. 

PRAY when you feel the need to. 

Be CONFIDENT that what Jesus has promised, that He shall also perform. 

REALIZE that IN ALL THESE THINGS, we are MORE THAN 
CONQUERORS through Him that loves us. 

And, that nothing can separate us from the love of God and Christ our Lord. 


Through Faith in Jesus Christ... 

-YOU were redeemed to become CONQUERORS,...not those conquered. 
-YOU were redeemed to become VICTORS...not the victims! 
-YOU were redeemed to be OVERCOMERS...not those overcome.* 


*"And this is the VICTORY that overcomes the world, EVEN OUR FAITH!" 1 John 5:4-b* 


*"America, your days of liberty and freedom may be numbered. Make the most of your freedoms while you can. And determine in your heart now that you will continue to stand up for God and Liberty...even when a corrupt government declares our days of freedom are finished." 

-Pam Schuffert*


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

I believe that God has only one Law. And that Jesus has only one Gospel. And that both of them are the same. And that neither of them can be found in a religious book, but must instead be discovered through Yourself. Myself. Ourselves. 

We can only receive direction through the material World including through such things as portions of the Bible. But, there is absolutely no need for religion or religious books. They will all give you what you could have already found if only you had looked inside Yourself the entire time. 

*I believe that God's Complete Law for us is: 

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind, all thy heart and thy body; and thy Neighbor as Thyself. Do this and thou shalt have Eternal Life"* 

That law came straight from Jesus's mouth.

I believe that when Jesus said "Thy Neighbor", that He used that as a symbol for representing all of Humanity. And that to enter back into Eternal Life means that we have obeyed this very Law to the best of our ability relating to our Wills. Portions of the Bible and other religious books like some of the Hindu scriptures and the Koran are really just trying to describe that Law. But they are not the Law. They are interpretations of that Law. And just about all of the people who have learned from sources like that have been way off as far as how they have gone about trying to Live it. It is the same in any language or culture, or in any version of spiritual or religious texts. 

All people should know that within our own Selves are immutable Laws that we can never escape from. Therefore, so as we condemn others, we will be condemned. As we do unto our Brothers and Sisters, so it will be the same as doing it to God! 

These are laws that exist within every single one of us. They are truths, they are unfailing. And just because at times it might seem as if the result of a horrible act has gone unpunished for way too long, and that it might appear that God is slow in meting our results for a Person's actions, will not alter or change those Laws. An error, a fault, a failure, must be met. And as we have heard before, *though the Heavens and the Earth shall pass away, God's Law will never pass away. His Law IS the way, the Truth, and the Light.* Therefore Every Soul must pay for their actions and decisions to the final jot. And the way they pay is redeemed through Karma. 

The continuing problem of Man and Women is to combine all of our Minds, Emotions, Awareness, and Consciousness, with our Wills and Purposes, so that we can all again be ONE with the Creator. Until that time, we as individuals will remain Earthbound, or within the confines of our own Solar System. The ever present stumbling block to this return to our True Self (Atonement with God), is our Ego or Self Interest, Self indulgence, Self-purposefulness. And all "sin", all error, all evil, indeed the only "sin" is the Self which became as separate from the Father!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

The one problem that so many people seem to be forgetting is that the Bible is not the Word of God. *Christ is the Word of God*. He has stated that Himself. Even the Bible states that God's Word will never pass away. And nor will Christ. Christ will always remain....even when the Heavens and the Earth pass away. 

But the Bible never states anything about the Bible being God's Word. Thats because the Bible is just a collection of different teachings over time. But many of those teachings are false and or have been twisted or altered to fit religion. Christ however perfectly and clearly stated that HE is the Word of God. And the Bible also states that. It says that God's Word is the Truth, the Way, and the Light. But what the Bible doesn't mention on the other hand is itself, which is because it is not what is really important. 

So we have the facts. The Bible, among many other texts outside the Bible, such as the Gospel of Thomas and other gnostic texts, all state that Jesus was the Way, the Truth, and The Light. And the same is said about God's Word. So therefore, it would be impossible to conclude anything other than that Jesus IS God's Word, and that Christ is the Way, The Truth, and the Light. 

*God gave the Word. 

Christ IS that Word. 

Christ gave the Law. 

The Law is "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind, all thy heart and thy body; and thy Neighbor as Thyself. Do this and thou shalt have Eternal Life". 

The Law is the Truth. 

The Truth is the Way. 

The Way is The Light. 

And the Light is the Life. 

ETERNAL LIFE.*


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

Must we as Human Beings continue to constantly try and place a name on Our Creator? Wouldn't the World be a better place if we all stopped trying to claim The Creator as the leader of a particular group or race? 

Did Jesus Himself not say that if we try to pin point the location of The Father then other things would be able to see Him/Her before us? 


*They asked Him: 

When is The Kingdom coming? 

He replied: 

"It is not coming in an easily observable manner. People will not be saying, Look, its over here or Look, its over there. Rather, the Kingdom of The Father is already spread out on the earth, and People arent aware of it." 

Jesus Said: 

"If Your leaders say to You Look! The Kingdom is in the sky! Then the Birds will be there before You are. If they say that the Kingdom is in the sea, then the Fish will be there before You are. Rather, the Kingdom is within You and it is outside of You."* 


Can the same not be said about religions who act likewise? Use Jesus's above parrable to realize the truth that is contained in it. 

If God is Alah, then the Muslims will see Him before everyone else. 

If God is a Hindu God, then the Hindus will see Him before anyone else. 

If God is only the Christian Trinity (Father, Son, And Holy Spirit), then the Christians will see Him before anyone else. 

If God is Budah, then the Budhists will see Him before anyone else. 


No. This is not the truth. The Creator has no name. The Creator has no face. The Creator has no color nor does the Creator have a religion. Rather, Just as Jesus has stated for us all, The Creator is both within us and without us.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

And so therefore what would the Creator truly be? Well my friends, as we have learned through science and many other sources, The Universe and everything within it is composed of Matter. And why is Matter so important? Because Nothing can exist without it. Nothing. 

And who was it that created Matter? No one. And how do we know this? Because Matter is infinite. It will always be and it has always been. Therefore, what remains inside us and without us that is eternal just like "The Kingdom of Heaven" which is the very same parrable that Jesus used to describe this substance? You guessed it, it's Matter.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

*Jesus Said: 

"I am the light above everything. I am everything. Everything came forth from me, and everything reached me. Split wood and I am there, Lift up a rock, You will find me there." 

Jesus Said: 

"You are pleased when you see Your own likeness. When You see Your Images that came into being before You did, immortal and invisable Images, how much can You bear?" 

Jesus Said: 

"The images are revealed to People. The Light within Them is hidden in the Image of the Fathers Light. He will be revealed. His Image is hidden in His Light." 

He responded, 

"He who has ears let Him hear. There is light within a man of light, and He lights up all of the world. If He is not alight there is darkness." 

Therefore I say that if One is unified One will be filled with Light. But if One is divided One will be filled with Darkness.* 


So if God made everything and anything from ITSELF, then wouldn't it be logical to understand that God is composed of Matter in it's purest form?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

And this is not saying that I claim to completely understand exactly what the Creator is, but I guarantee you that there is more Truth to this than you will ever find in any Mind Prison World Religion.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

*Jesus Said: 

"If They ask You, "Where are You from?" reply to Them, "We have come from the place where Light is produced from Itself. It came and revealed Itself in Their image." 

"If They ask You, "Are You it?" reply to Them, "We are His Sons. We are chosen ones of The Living Father."* 


And so again, what exactly is it that produces Light? It's Matter. When two Photons (A form of matter) crash together then this is how we get Light. More to the process than that but this is the basic concept I am using here. 

Jesus understood this concept way way way before our modern day scientists did. He understood the laws and fundamentals of the Universe. He was gifted with the power of Christ. As were many other people before Him.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

If we can all come to understand the truth about what Jesus was teaching us, then we can all begin to understand how ignorant the concepts of Human religions really are. 

And this is exactly why the 3 parts that Christianity claims is what makes up our Creator (the so called Trinity concept) is a completely false one. To acknowledge only 3 parts of God which Christianity claims is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, is to separate God from everything else that exists, which is not the truth at all, because as I stated before *God is everything*, because everything is God/Matter/Energy, and so to acknowledge the Trinity concept and to not include yourself and everything around you as a part of it is to separate yourself from the Truth.

In other words, Just as Jesus claimed that "we all come from the place where Light is produced from itself", we can begin to understand that we all come from Matter, because Matter produces Light from Itself, which is exactly what Jesus was trying to say. 

So we all come from Matter. And I believe that Matter = God in all of it's various forms.


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## dilloduck (Oct 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> And this is not saying that I claim to completely understand exactly what the Creator is, but I guarantee you that there is more Truth to this than you will ever find in any Mind Prison World Religion.



Why do you come in here and flood us with stuff all the time ?  Are you unable to discuss things like normal people?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

In 2012 many Great Beings of Light from our "past" will come back into this World in the form of Love and Light and Mass Consciousness, many of you might be saying, "thats ridiculous." 

But is it really? How ridiculous is it to say that their Spirits (in the form of Matter) will change into what I have just described? 

We all know that matter can change form. This is a fact. And we all know that matter can be invisible and yet at the same time still exist. Just as your cells and body grow and multiply as you age and die, and can easily change from a solid form into something that looks quite different, so can all energy from other dimensions enter back into the Earth in a very different form for a set purpose known only by that which it had been Created from - AKA - The Creator.


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## dilloduck (Oct 13, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Why do you come in here and flood us with stuff all the time ?  Are you unable to discuss things like normal people?



bump


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Why do you come in here and flood us with stuff all the time ?  Are you unable to discuss things like normal people?



What would you wish we discuss?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

If any of you truly want to know one of the simplest equations for remembering who or what God really is....then it is an extremely easy one to remember: 

*Nothing exists without God. And God exists within everything.* 

Remember this simple fact whenever you get confused about God and or Yourself and Your surroundings. 

Every time you take a step on the Earth, you are walking on another form of God. Everytime you eat a good meal you are enjoying yet another form of The Creator. Everytime you run from someone who is trying to hurt you, you are running from a Form of the Creator. All-be it a very negative form "filled with darkness" as Jesus had stated, but a form of God none of the less.

And this is all very important to remember folks. Because everytime you kiss your sweetheart, shake hands with your friend, hug your brother or sister, you are interacting with another form of God. 

So please, whenever possible, treat everything you see, smell, hear, touch, and taste as multiple forms of your Creator, because thats exactly what they are. As am I. As are you. And as is the rest of all Creation.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

I would ask you all one question....What are your true intentions in this lifetime? 

Is it your intention to laugh at those who are not a part of your religion because in your own mind you truly believe that they will not be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven simply because they don't belong to your same group? 

Is it your intention to put yourself ahead of another and reach what ever level of material "success" you wish to achieve without having any regard for your fellow Brothers and Sisters? 

Because if this is what you really believe in then you should know that you are living a complete lie. And that your intention has been revealed before the Universe. 

*Jesus Said:

"Do not lie. If there is something that You hate, do not do it, for everything is revealed beneath Heaven. Nothing hidden will fail to be displayed. Nothing covered will remain undisclosed."

Jesus Said: 

"When You give rise to that which is within You, what You have will save You. If You do not give rise to it, what You do not have will destroy You." 

When You understand Yourselves You will be understood. And You will realize that You are the Sons of the living Father. If You do not know yourselves, then You exist in poverty and You are that poverty.*


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## dilloduck (Oct 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> What would you wish we discuss?



The fact that if you are trying to teach or tell anybody anything you are going about it the wrong way.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

Or still yet, are you the type of person that believes that because you have joined a particular religion that you are now somehow qualified to "save" another person's Soul? This too is a complete lie. 


*Jesus Said: 

"You see the splinter that is in Your Brother's eye, but You do not see the log that is in Your own eye. Remove the log from Your own eye, and then You can clearly see to remove the splinter from Your Brother's eye." 

Jesus Said: 

"If a Blind Person leads another Blind Person , both of Them will fall into a ditch." 

Jesus Said: 

"One who knows everything else but who does not know Himself knows nothing."* 


And do you really believe that religious organizations who's true purpose is to control, and who's many followers know this and who also set out to control, will actually Enter into the Kingdom with that state of reality? Of course not. They have 0 chance if they continue remain with that way of thinking... 


*Jesus Said: 

"A Grapevine was planted outside of The Father but, as It did not strengthen, They will pull It up by It's roots and It will die." 

Jesus Said: 

"They do not pick Grapes from Brambles, nor do They pick Figs from Thistles, for These do not yield The Proper Fruit."*


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## sitarro (Oct 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> I am a Christian myself (Not exactly in the religious sense), but I believe in Christ. And am a follower of Christ. So therefore, it's going to be pritty hard for me not to mix some of my own beliefs in with my work.
> 
> However, I will do my best not to cram it down anyones throat as I post it.
> 
> ...



I believe that you're a whack job that is totally looney tunes and bring the cause of Christianity back centuries everytime you mention it.If you are reading the crap you post out loud, you just might be the cause of global warming. Walk away from the keyboard....walk away!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

The Masters words will always ring true my friend.

My job is simply to pass along His bubbling wisdom.


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## dilloduck (Oct 13, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> The Masters words will always ring true my friend.
> 
> My job is simply to pass along His bubbling wisdom.



not caring if you are doing it in a piss poor manner ?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

So what I am asking you to do, the very few people who will stand up and realize what the Father truly is, and understand that everything came from Him and eventually everything will return from Him, that you very few will stand up and realize that the Father is both the Beginning and the End and therefore you few who truly understand this will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. 


*Jesus responded: 

"When You make the Two into One, and when You make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the upper like the lower and the lower like the upper, and thus make the Male and the Female the same, so that the Male isn't Male and the Female isn't Female. When You make an eye to replace an eye, and a hand to replace a hand, and a foot to replace a foot, and an Image to replace an Image, then You will enter The Kingdom." 

Jesus said: 

"The Earth and the Sky will roll up right in front of You. Anyone living from The Living will not die." 

Blessed is Anyone who will stand up in the Beginning and thereby know the End and never die.* 


And if you don't wake up now, and if you don't choose to see that the Father is everything around you while you are Alive, and that He truly does exist inside you and everywhere outside of you, then you will not be able to See Him when you die. 


*Jesus said: 

"Look at The Living One while You live, for if You die and then try to see Him You will not be able to do so."*


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

You really should come to understand that the reason that Jesus said that there is "Light within a Man of Light", is because even 2,000 years ago Jesus knew the truth which is that there is Light within every single one of us, and that all of us have the ability to Light up this whole World, if only we would recognize what is inside of us, and right in front of us, and all that there is to know will eventually be revealed to us. 

*Jesus said: 

"Recognize what is right in front of You, and that which is hidden from You will be revealed to You. Nothing hidden will fail to be displayed." 

Jesus Said: 

"I stood in the midst of the World. I came to Them in the flesh [sarx]. I found all of Them drunk. I found not One of Them to be thirsty. My soul was saddended by The Sons of Men for They are mentally blind. They do not see that They have come into the world empty and They will go out of the world empty. But now They are drunk. When They sober up They will repent." 

Jesus Said: 

"When You understand Yourselves You will be understood. And You will realize that You are the Sons of the living Father. If You do not know yourselves, then You exist in poverty and You are that poverty."* 

And we literally are. We are all SUNS of the Living Father. In different forms, yes, but we are all made of the same basic components of the stars/suns that make up the Universe. There is not one element that you can find in the stars that you can't find in the Human body. Photons, Nuetrons, Magnetic Electricity, each and every one of us contains these same properties. 

And so I ask all of you, because Jesus asked all of us as well, to use this Light within you, and to spread it and teach it to the entire World. 

*Jesus Said: 

"What you Hear in you Ears preach from Your Housetops". 

Jesus Said: 

"He who has ears to hear let Him hear."*


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 13, 2006)

_Can a person comprehend anything more complicated then a physical answer to life, and death? _

The question of the Millenium. 

Have you ever heard the phrase, "It's all the same in the end"? 

I bet many of you have heard that phrase used by someone in your presence before. I am also willing to bet that many of you have found yourselves nodding your heads in agreement to that statement without ever really thinking twice about it. 

But have you ever really considered what that phrase really means? Or better yet, have you ever wondered why you have such a strong tendency to want to totally agree with such a statement? 

The reason for that is simple. It's because that single phrase represents the Ultimate Truth. And your Soul knows it. Which is that all of us were the same in the Beginning and that all of us will be in the End. And that what we really are is just the Creator experiencing Itself through multiple personalities.


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## -Kt Atis- (Oct 13, 2006)

Where are you coming from?


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## Kagom (Oct 13, 2006)

Can you just go away already?


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## CrimsonWhite (Oct 14, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> _Can a person comprehend anything more complicated then a physical answer to life, and death? _
> 
> The question of the Millenium.
> 
> ...



I wish the controllers would hurry up and take this guy out.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

onthefence said:


> I wish the controllers would hurry up and take this guy out.



With the scales tilting as they are, it won't matter anymore in the longrun.

For every person that is "taken out" while shining their Light on the World, a thousand more will soon come to follow in their footsteps. And the numbers will only be increasing as the Golden Age approaches.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

One thing to remember though, is that as non-Western civilizations continue to gain more prominence on the global stage, their financial and military presence becomes more obvious. China and other Oriental nations are perfect examples of a new economic force, while North Korea's threats to expand their nuclear arsenal reveal a new player in the game. 

The problem in regard to the United States is that we are being deliberately set-up to take a fall. How does one arrive at this conclusion? One of the major indicators that rarely get mentioned in the media is the way in which we use our resources. What do we do with the billions of dollars raised through taxation of the American people? Do we use it to strengthen our borders, prop-up our industrial base, and reinforce our infrastructure to be the best in the World? No, our political leaders (guided by their New World Order puppet masters), are sending more and more of it outside our borders via foreign aid, foreign weapons build-ups, and as enormous payoffs to foreign nations for the use of their military bases. (Turkey is a perfect example).


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

The big question is, who is making these decisions? Is it just our Congressmen and our President? Of course not. They're also mostly being made by the elitists who belong to the CFR and the Trilateral Commission, or by the elitists who meet yearly with the Bilderbergs or at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. These individuals - bankers, international businessmen, government officials, intellectuals, and media moguls - do not act in the best interest of the United States. 

Lets take a look at who were the attendees of the 2003 Davos Conference, which was largely unreported in the American mainstream media: 


*John Ashcroft* - U.S. Attorney General 
*Bill Clinton* - Former President of the United States 
*Cristopher Dodd* - Connecticut Senator 
*Orrin Hatch* - Utah Senator 
*Colin Powell* - U.S. Secretary of State 
*Bill Richardson* - New Mexico Governor 
*Laurence Summers* - President, Harvard University 
*Tommy Thompson* - Secretary of Health and Human Services 
*Chrstine Todd Whitman* - EPA Administrator 
*Richard Sergay* - Senior Producer for ABC News. 
*Stephen Case* - Chairman of AOL Time-Warner 
*Alexander Higgins* - Associated Press Bureau Chief 
*Thomas Fenton* - CBS News 
*Jim Bitterman* - CNN 
*Peter Sutherland* - Chief Executive of BP Oil, and a Bilderberg luminary 
*Yosef A. Maiman* - Former Mossad agent 
*Bill Gates* - Microsoft 
*Thomas Friedman* - New York Times 
*Ross Perot* - Former Presidential candidate 
*George Soros* - Interpol 


Instead of taking actions which benefit America, their aim is to further their own Globalist goals. Their power is incredible. Davos people control virtually all international institutions, many of the World's Governments, and the bulk of the World's economic and military capabilities.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

All of the people that attended the 2003 Davos Conference are part of the New World Order power hierarchy. 

The scary part is that although nation-states still have some control over their own destiny, they are losing importance and will soon be replaced by international institutions which will have the "right to judge and to constrain what states do in their own territory". To those who don't realize it, this is precisely what the definition of the NEW WORLD ORDER is! This international ruling body will assume the role previously performed by sovereign nations, with a Globalist bureaucracy directing the citizenry, not a duly-elected Government. 

Of course we have already taken quite a few steps toward this nightmare with the establishment of the United Nations, European Union, IMF, ect, and the New World Order elite realize that to maintain their positions of power they need to promote a concept called "Universalism". In other words, whenever a conflict presents itself outside the sphere of their influence, the Globalists try to bring the troublemaker into their stable.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

*Samuel P. Huntington:* 

_"The West is attempting and will continue attempting to sustain its preeminent position and defend its interests by defining those interests as the interests of the WORLD COMMUNITY."_ 


One of the ways they like to do this is by easing non-Western civilizations into their economic system via loans or aid packages through the IMF or World Bank. But Georgi Arbatov, a long-time Russian politico, CFR member, and author of _The System: an Insiders Life in Soviet Politics_, likened the IMF crowd to "neo-Bolsheviks who love expropriating other people's money, imposing undemocratic and alien rules of economic and political conduct and stifling economic freedom." 

In other words, they suck OUR money out of our pockets, then they dole it out to those who will further their self-serving goals. 

In reality, this practice is nothing more than Global Socialism with those at the top acting as plantation owners, while we slave away to keep them in power. It's a sick little game that we shouldn't keep falling for.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Now I would like to cover the Federal Reserve system and how it has been destroying the United States since it's creation. Many people know alot about this subject as is, so I would like to cover it as quickly as possible.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

The Panic of 1907 was an artificially created event in which rumors were circulated that all the banks were going under and would lose their money. J. P. Morgan, one of the great influential bankers of all-time, started the rumors. 

So the Panic was basicly created by "Standard Oil" crowd. These were the same people who were running the show all along: John D. Rockefeller, J. P. Morgan, ect. In other words, those who benefited most from the Panic (after a Central Bank was created) were the same people who caused the disaster in the first place. 

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 created the Federal Reserve, which now has complete control over interest rates, and also the creation of money (taking this privilege away from Congress). They now control the size of our national money supply here in the U.S., which directly affects inflation, depressions, ect. 

Although called "federal", the Federal Reserve is privately owned. Its policies are not subject to the President of the United States or Congress. It can create - and inflate, and it has the ability to relax or tighten the money supply as it sees fit. 

Neither the Congress, the President, or the American people can issue money. Only private bankers can do it - and at a PROFIT for themselves!! The United States of America has to borrow money from THEM.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

To pay off the HUGE debt that we owe these private bankers (via the interest on loans), our Government had to create the Income Tax (also in 1913!). Prior to the year 1913, there was no income tax except for a few years during the Civil War and Reparation Period. Our Government kept itself afloat by tarriffs and excise taxes. 

But here's the ploy behind the Income Tax scam. The rich evade it by funneling their money into tax-free "foundations", while the rest of us get manipulated because of a "graduated" tax system. In other words, the more you make, the more the Government takes. That way, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, for people to ascend up the ladder and get into the Controller's league. 

The truth is, 1913 was a _horrible_ year for the United States. Again, 1913 is the year that The Federal Reserve (a central bank) was created. This institution loaned HUGE amounts of money to the United States Government. To pay off this debt, the Federal Income Tax Law was enacted, which proceeded to STEAL money from the American citizenry. But when the Federal Reserve was created in 1913, they found....or CREATED....a reason very shortly thereafter. World War 1. And it began in 1914! 

Oh yes my friends, the International Bankers profited immensely from World War 1. Banker Bernard Baruch's profits totaled over $200 million. Also, shortly after World War 1 ended, the League of Nations (a predecessor to the United Nations) was formed. 

World War 1 was devised to get the United States involved in World conflict, and thus to borrow MAJOR amounts of money. To do this, the Lusitania was deliberately allowed to be sunk by the Germans - 128 Americans died in the process - raising our cockles and guaranteeing that we'd enter the fray. 


*Joseph Kenworthy - British Naval Intelligence:* 

"The Lusitania was deliberately sent at a considerably reduced speed into an area where a U-boat was known to be waiting and with her escorts withdrawn." 


Folks, this was AFTER the British had already cracked Germany's naval code and they knew exactly where all their U-boats were located.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Our nation's original Constitution was written to keep the Government out of our hair. This was called a "laissez faire" policy. Government had little or no influence on business, education, religion, or other aspects of our lives. We practiced free enterprise, which meant there was competition. With this philosiphy and practice, everyone had a chance to make it to the "top". 

But then the monopolists entered the picture in the late 1800's. People like John D. Rockefeller, J. P. Morgan and others - and they eliminated competition. John D. Rockefeller said, "competition is a sin." 

These people wanted to be able to call the shots via Governments, banks and business institutions that were already bought and paid for (controlled). Think about all the monopolies that our Government runs. Education, money (Federal Reserve), Post Office, NASA, military, Court systems, Taxation, ect. 

Our Government is a MONOPOLY - thus, regulation, socialism, and communism are all graduated forms of monopoly.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

So in a nutshell, how these people (The Controllers) have attempted to control the World is by a process of lending money to Governments or Nations. Then, in order to repay their loans, these Governments and Nations levy taxes on their citizenry. But not only do the international bankers make these loans, they also attach strings to them. In other words, the Governments grant these bankers a privilege - a "say" in their policies. 

It's important to remember what the most lucrative event for bankers is. WAR. Nothing generates more government borrowing faster than war. 

To rule a country, one must first establish a monopoly over that nation's money supply by creating a central bank (The Federal Reserve).


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## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Our nation's original Constitution was written to keep the Government out of our hair. This was called a "laissez faire" policy. Government had little or no influence on business, education, religion, or other aspects of our lives. We practiced free enterprise, which meant there was competition. With this philosiphy and practice, everyone had a chance to make it to the "top".
> 
> But then the monopolists entered the picture in the late 1800's. People like John D. Rockefeller, J. P. Morgan and others - and they eliminated competition. John D. Rockefeller said, "competition is a sin."
> 
> ...



Is this when we kill all the capitalist?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

The Jekyl Island meeting in 1910 is where the idea of a Federal Reserve Bank was conceived. It was conceived out of ignorance and greed. 

Jekyl Island was a hideaway that was owned by J. P. Morgan. When the bankers met there to create the Federal Reserve, they were called "The First Name Group", because all of the attendees were only allowed to be called by their first names (or code names) while addressing eachother. 

But....if any of the Wall Street names became associated with a Central Bank, the Federal Reserve Bill would surely be labeled with a kiss of death by the American people. Americans at that time were strongly opposed to the concept of a Central Bank, so it was formed in such a way that it seemed like bankers actually opposed it publicly. But in reality, they were the ones who designed and promoted it! 

They were so sneaky, that even President Woodrow Wilson thought he was signing a bill that took financial power AWAY from the Wall Street financiers. 

But the key name to remember here is Paul Warburg, because if anyone was responsible for doing all this, his name would be the first one on the list. Our Federal Reserve Bank was modeled after the German Reichbank.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Lets take a little look at the Jekyl Island Meeting Attendees: 


*1. Senator Nelson Aldrich* - Father in law of John. D. Rockefeller. 

*2. Paul Warburg* - German banker - founder of Kuhn Loeb and the Federal Reserve. 

*3. Harry P. Davison* - J. P. Morgan 

*4. Benjamin Strong* - Bankers Trust 

*5. Frank Vanderlip* - National City Bank 

*6. Charles D. Norton* - First National Bank. 



Folks....the Federal Reserve is what we get when we allow a bunch of slimy bankers to make our decisions for us.


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## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Lets take a little look at the Jekyl Island Meeting Attendees:
> 
> 
> *1. Senator Nelson Aldrich* - Father in law of John. D. Rockefeller.
> ...



Now ???  Do we kill all the capitalists now?????:scratch:


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

The League of Nations was created as a front for the real conspirators behind the Federal Reserve System and it had it's origins in three institutions - the RIAA (Royal Institute of International Affairs), the Council on Foreign Relations, and the House of Rothschild.

It's also important to note that all of the financiers were emissaries of Baron Alfred Rothschild, who commissioned them to create a Central Bank modeled after the Reichsbank, the Bank of England, and the Bank of France - all of which were controlled by the House of Rothschild!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Six New York banks eventually bought controlling interest in the Federal Reserve Bank in New York. Even as late as 1983, only five banks held 53% of all the shares. These five are: Citibank, Chase Manhattan, Morgan Guaranty Trust, Manhattan Hanover, and Chemical Bank. 

So in other words, America is still practicly being run by 5 banks!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

The Federal Reserve Act joined American and European bankers together so that they could more easily bring about World War 1 in 1914. This war was fought to enable the International Conspirators a better opportunity to start the Russian (Bolshevik) Revolution in 1917. It was the same with the English Revolution in 1640, the French Revolution in 1789, and the American Civil War in 1860. 

The Federal Reserve included only 12 total banks by 1946. That year their reserves totaled 45 billion dollars. During World War 2 alone, they made 42 BILLION DOLLARS in profits! 

In 1912, The International Bankers and the Grand Orient Lodge of Freemasonry met in Switzerland, where they decided to have Archduke Francis Ferdinand assassinated to start World War 1. 

The group of people who assassinated Archduke Ferdinand (among others) were a revolutionary organization affiliated with Freemasonry. 


*Vladimir Lenin:* 

_"The best revolutionary is a youth devoid of morals."_


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Lets take a quick look at who the financers of the Bolshevik Revolution were, shall we?: 


*1. Max Warburg* - Brother of Paul Warburg, who founded the Federal Reserve; he was also the head of the German Secret Police during World War 1. 

*2. J. P. Morgan & Company.* 

*3. Rockefeller Oil Company* 

*4. Alfred Milner Rothschild* 

*5. Jacob Schiff* - he invested $20 million.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Jacob Schiff controlled Kuhn, Loeb, & Company; the top Rothschild agent in the United States who financed J. D. Rockefeller, Edward Harriman (the railroad magnet), and Andrew Carnegie's steel empire. He also provided $20 million directly to the Bolshevik Revolution (which helped spawn Communism). 

And lets not forget about World World War 1, which created astronomical debts for every nation involved. Wars are always lucrative for those who finance them.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Remember that during the Panic of 1907, the "insiders" made a financial killing and that the Panic also created the _need_ for a central bank. 


*Vladimir Lenin:* 

_"Establishing a central bank is 90% of making a country Communist."_ 


Also try and remember that after the Federal Reserve Act was passed, it granted control to privately owned central banks in regard to interest rates and the size of the national money supply. 


*1971 New York Times Magazine - Congressman Louis McFadden - Chairman of the House Committee on Banking & Currency from 1920-1931:* 

"The Federal Reserve Act brought about a super-state controlled by international bankers and international industrialists together to enslave the World for their own pleasure." 


We have two governments in this country; one is "elected" and the other is an independent, uncontrolled government of the Federal Reserve.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Philip Snowden, of the Pritish Parliament once said that the Treaty of Versailles was "Not a peace treaty, but a declaration of another war." 


*Lloyd George (On the Treaty of Versailles):* 

"We have a written document that guarantees war in twenty years."


*Edwin Stanton - Abraham Lincoln's Secretary of War:* 

"Wars are not fought to defeat an enemy; wars are fought to create a condition."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 17, 2006)

Just a little overview of what these International Bankers have done to this World: 


*1.* They created the conditions to begin World War 1. 

*2.* They made a financial killing from World War 1. 

*3.* They also financed the Bolshevik Revolution - and by doing so, they took control of Russia. 

*4.* They manipulated events to create the Treaty of Versailles, plus the Dawes and Young plans. 

*5.* They used American loans to re-arm Germany after World War 1. 

*6.* While they were building up the Germans, they also antagonized them (via hyperinflation and high employment) to augment Adolf Hitler's rise to power.


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## onedomino (Oct 17, 2006)

Are you on drugs? If not, immediately go to your local psychiatrist and get a BIG prescription for some serious medication. And give us all a break.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

Alright guys, so now that we know that the Federal Reserve is a privately owned, for-profit corporation, a natural question would be: who owns this company? Peter Kershaw provides the answer in Economic Solutions where he lists the ten primary shareholders in the Federal Reserve banking system. 


*The ten primary shareholders of the Federal Reserve are:* 


*1.* The Rothschild Family - London 

*2.* The Rothschild Family - Berlin 

*3.* The Lazard Brothers - Paris 

*4.* Israel Seiff - Italy 

*5.* Kuhn-Loeb Company - Germany 

*6.* The Warburgs - Amsterdam 

*7.* The Warburgs - Hamburg 

*8.* Lehman Brothers - New York 

*9.* Goldman & Sachs - New York 

*10.* The Rockefeller Family - New York 



Now I don't know about you, but something is terribly wrong with this situation. Namely, don't we live in AMERICA? If so, why are seven of the top ten stockholders of the United States Federal Reserve located in FOREIGN countries? That's 70%!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

To further convey how screwed up the entire system is, Jim Mars provides the following data in his book, _Rule by Secrecy_. He says that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which undeniably controls the other eleven Federal Reserve branches, is essentially controlled by two financial institutions. 

The first one is Chase Manhattan (which is controlled by the Rockefellers) - and has 6,389,445 shares - which comes to 32.3%. 

The second one is Citbank - which has 4,051,851 shares - which comes to 20.5%. 

Thus, these two entities control nearly 53% of the New York Federal Reserve Bank. Considering how many trillions of dollars are involved here, and how the bankers are WAY above our "selected" officials in Washington, D.C., do you think the above-listed banks and families have an inordinate amount of say-so in how our country is being run? The answer is blindingly apparent.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was the determining act of the international financiers in consolidating financial power in the United States. Pierre Jay, Initiated into the "Order of Skull and Bones" in 1892, became the first Chairman of the New York Federal Reserve Bank. A dozen members of the Federal Reserve can be linked to the same "Order". 

The 16th. Amendment allowing Congress to tax personal income quickly followed the Federal Reserve Act (but it never has been ratified in all states.) This was a natural consequence, since the U.S. government could no longer create it's own money to finance it's operations as provided by the Constitution. For the first time in U.S. history people thought they had to pay income tax. (In fact, filing with the IRS is purely voluntary.) Congressman Charles Lindbergh described the newly created Federal Reserve Bank as "the invisible government by the money power."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

During 1916, Colonial Edward M. House used his considerable influence with the financial institutions (many which held stock in the Federal Reserve Bank) represented by Felix and Paul Warburg, Otto H. Kahn, Louis Marburg, Henry Morganthau, Herbert Lehman, Mortimer and Jacob Schiff to convince Americans that it was their sacred duty to make the "World safe for democracy." Soon thereafter The U.S. entered World War I. The Illuminati sold Wilson to the American people under the slogan that he represented "the New Freedom." "The War to End all Wars" ended up being vary profitable to the Illuminati Bankers and their associates.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

New international financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF) the World Bank and the Bank of International Settlements were created to extend economic hegemony through the planet. 

The outrageous national membership fees of the IMF runs into billions of dollars per year per nation. When nations have problems repaying their loans, strict austerity programs are imposed which cause considerable hardship on the poorer citizens of that nation. 

In 1986 for example, Brazil stripped her rain forests, mined her gold, forced low cost labour onto her people and had a $10 billion trade surplus. This was the year that the U.S. suffered a $50 billion trade deficit. But, the interest payment on Brazil's foreign loans also came to $10 Billion, so it was all for nothing! 

When Brazil decided to default on the payments, her credit rating dropped to zero. Without short term credit, Brazil was unable to conduct normal international business transactions and lost even more in trade than the interest payments had amounted to. Within six months, Brazil had reconsidered her position and started negotiations with the bankers. A lesser rate of interest was finally agreed upon. But, Brazil was persuaded to borrow $13 billion more! The lenders don't really want the debt paid back. The debt gives them leverage and the debt servicing or interest payments gives the "cash flow".


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

Often, "austerity measures" are imposed on nations that have a difficult time repaying their loans. Social programs like health, education or basic food subsidies for the people of the nation are reduced drastically. A recent epidemic of cholera in Latin America is directly related to these "austerity programs" and the reduction of health and sanitary programs carried out by the government. These social evils are a result of ignorance of the true nature of money, it's purpose and it's creation. Honorable leaders of nations would not borrow until their countrymen were in bondage. 

Knowledgable leaders would insure that their country controlled the currency rather than international bankers. A national law ought to be passed forbidding Congress from borrowing money. Also, if Congress would nationalise the Federal Reserve Bank to regain it's Constitutional authority to mint currency then the borrowing would be unnecessary!


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## Said1 (Oct 22, 2006)

Corporate culture is nothing new.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

Said1 said:


> Corporate culture is nothing new.



I'm not posting about it because it's "new".

I'm posting about it because we as the American people need to take a stand on this subject and make sure something is done about it before it becomes too late.


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## Said1 (Oct 22, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> I'm not posting about it because it's "new".
> 
> I'm posting about it because we as the American people need to take a stand on this subject and make sure something is done about it before it becomes too late.



But it IS too late.

I'm Canadian btw.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

Presidents Lincoln, Jackson, and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest. Today, if the government runs a deficit, the FED prints dollars through the U.S. Treasury, buys the debt, and the dollars are circulated into the economy. In 1992, taxpayers paid the FED banking system $286 billion in interest on debt the FED purchased by printing money virtually cost free. Forty percent of our personal federal income taxes goes to pay this interest. The FED's books are not open to the public. 

Congressman Wright Patman was Chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Banking and Currency for 40 years. For 20 of those years, he introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

Congressman Henry Gonzales, Chairman of a banking committee, introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913 nearly every year. It was always defeated, the media remained silent, and the public never learned the truth. The same bankers who own the FED still control the media today and they give huge political contributions to sympathetic members of Congress. 

THE FED FEARS THE POPULATION WILL BECOME AWARE OF THIS FRAUD AND DEMAND CHANGE 

We, the People, are at fault for being passive and allowing this to continue.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

If the media is unbiased, independent and if they claim to be so thorough, then why haven't they discussed the FED? Currently, half the states have at least a grass roots movement in action to abolish the FED, but there's no press coverage. In July, 1968, the House Banking Subcommittee reported that Rockefeller, through Chase Manhattan Bank, controlled 5.9% of the stock in CBS. Furthermore, the bank had gained interlocking directorates with ABC. 

In 1974, Congress issued a report stating that the Chase Manhattan Bank's stake in CBS rose to 14.1% and NBC to 4.5% (through RCA, the parent company of NBC). The same report said that the Chase Manhattan Bank held stock in 28 broadcasting firms. After this report, the Chase Manhattan Bank obtained 6.7% of ABC, and today the percentage could be much greater. It only requires 5% ownership to significantly influence the media. This is only one of the many wealthy shareholders of the FED. It is believed that other FED owners have similar holdings in the media. To control the media, FED bankers can easily call in their loans if the media disagrees with them.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), has as it's sole purpose the aiding in stimulating greater interest in foreign affairs and in a One World Government. Many major newscasters belong to the Council on Foreign Relations. The Council on Foreign Relations controls many major newspapers and magazines. Additionally, major corporations owned by FED shareholders are the source of huge advertising revenues which surely would influence the media. It can be no wonder why groups such as FED-UP(tm) receive minimal, if any, press attention.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

*The Council on Foreign Relations was founded in 1921, and it's goals include:* 


*1.* A World Government. 

*2.* Centralized power with a single authority. 

*3.* The elimination of boundries, (National) and sovereignty. 

*4.* Increased authority of the United Nations. 

*5.* An international court of Justice. 

*6.* The elimination of the "Bill of Rights."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

Ok so how do taxpayers stop financing those whose purpose it is to destroy us? First, expose their activity, then demand change. 

According to the Constitution, Congress is to control the creation of money, keeping the amount of inflation or deflation in check. If Congress isn't doing their job, they should be voted out of office. Unfortunately, voters can't vote the FED or its Chairman out of office. 

If the government has a deficit, we could handle it as Lincoln and Kennedy did. Print money and circulate it into the economy, but this time interest-free. Today the FED, through foreign banks, owns much of our debt and therefore controls us.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 22, 2006)

By Congress allowing the constitutionally illegal FED to continue, much of your taxes go to the shareholders of the FED and their bankers. The people who enacted the FED started the IRS, within months of the FED's inception. The FED buys U.S. debt with money they printed from nothing, then charges the U.S. taxpayers interest. The government had to create income tax to pay the interest expense to the FED's shareholders, but the income tax was never legally passed. 

The FED is illegal, per Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution.


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## trobinett (Oct 24, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> By Congress allowing the constitutionally illegal FED to continue, much of your taxes go to the shareholders of the FED and their bankers. The people who enacted the FED started the IRS, within months of the FED's inception. The FED buys U.S. debt with money they printed from nothing, then charges the U.S. taxpayers interest. The government had to create income tax to pay the interest expense to the FED's shareholders, but the income tax was never legally passed.
> 
> The FED is illegal, per Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution.



Me thinks you've gone through TOO MANY Nuclear Winters, NuclearWinter.


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## onedomino (Oct 24, 2006)

Mr.Conley said:


> Nuclear Winter,
> Do you know where these "Controllers" are? I was wondering wondering if you could 'hook me up' so to speak. Acheiving absolute power over the affairs of all mankind has always been a goal of mine.


You should watch more "Pinky and the Brain" cartoons. They'll show you how:






-


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

The blood line of family bankers who own the FED funded both sides of all major wars during the last few centuries. They created fake colonial money to destroy the Americans during the Revolutionary War and tried to finance both sides in the American Civil War. Abraham Lincoln refused and the South accepted. Many publications show that these bankers financed World War I, World War II, and the Russian Revolutionary War, which helped Napoleon, Lenin, and Hitler come to power. 

They even financed both sides from money created from nothing and profited greatly. These same bankers created a number of American depressions to change the U.S. legislation and seize our wealth.This is why our forefathers wrote in the Constitution that only Congress can issue money - not private banks.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

More wars create more debt which means more profit to the bankers. These bankers have planned for three world wars so that people would finally welcome the United Nations intervention to govern the world in peace, not war. We have already fallen for two of their World Wars, and another one looms just around the corner! The choice is up to us.

The banks have publicly announced they will eventually force us into a cashless society. Furthermore, they plan to create a one world government through the United Nations headed by the FED, Trilaterals, and the Council on Foreign Relations. By the definition of treason, they have committed treason! This means you lose your rights under the Constitution and Bill of Rights. 

Does this sound far fetched? Twenty-four U.S. Senators (two of them presidential candidates, Harkin & Tsongas) and 80 Representatives have signed a "Declaration of Interdependence." This Declaration, designed to make a one world government, is treason to the oath of office they took. The media remained silent. The FED announced publicly that their first objective was to get nationalism out of the American people's heads because patriotism to a country would not be of value in the future.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

The media makes us think the U.N. has all the answers, and to "think globally." Congress passed a law stopping certain individuals from being tried for this treason. Why pass this law if no treason was committed? 

State Department document 7277 calls for the disarming of America, thus turning our sovereignty over to a one-world government. Again, the media is pushing to eliminate guns. Our forefathers believed that the right to bear arms would prevent a takeover of our government. History shows that before any government took over, they disarmed the citizens. Hitler did it, and before our Revolutionary War, King George told us to disarm - good thing we didn't!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

Under the Federal Reserve Bank Act, the bankers control our economy. The FED controls interest rates and the amount of money in the economy. These factors determine either economic prosperity or the lack thereof. 

Bankers are now pushing for a one world government and a cashless society. Why cashless? No cash means no money for drugs, no theft, and the ability to collect taxes on the underground economy. Anyone who wouldn't support a cashless society must be a drug dealer, thief, or tax evader, right? What a cashless society really means is that the banks can now control you. 

Today you may fear the IRS. In a cashless society, if you disagree with the bankers' political goals, you might just find your money gone via a computer error.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

If you could accurately predict future interest rates, inflation and deflation, you would know when to buy or sell stocks and make a bundle of money. The FED has secret meetings (per Congressional Record) to determine future interest rates and the amount of money to be printed. 

The Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) by law, stops insiders from profiting by privileged information. Congressional records prove that FED bankers routinely hold secret meetings to profit by manipulating the stock market via interest rates and the amount of money they create. FED bankers also profit greatly from economic disasters like the Depression. 

The bankers create inflation, sell their stocks before the market crashes, then buy up stocks at cheaper prices. Bankers admitted this to Congress. This violates the law, yet Congress does not act because these bankers are large political contributors. 

Thomas Jefferson predicted this scenario if we ever allowed a private bank, like the FED, to create our currency.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

The Stock Market Crash of 1929 was not an accident folks. From 1923 to 1929, the Federal Reserve expanded the money supply by 62%! Think of what would happen today if the money supply were expanded by 62%. 


*Congressman Charles Lindbergh - 1913:* 

_"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created."_ 


*Louis McFadden - Chairman of the House Banking Committee - describing the Great Depression:* 

"It was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence....the international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so that they might emerge as rulers of us all."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

For those people that don't already know....here's how the Great Crash happened: 

Plenty of money was made available. With lots of this money floating around, people bought stocks - the roaring 20's were a time of great prosperity after World War 1. The Stocks that everyone bought, however, were issued as "24 hour call loans", which meant that the money had to be repaid in 24 hours if it was ever "called" for. 

So the New York financiers started "calling in" all their loans at once. Stockbrokers and customers had to dump their stocks to pay their loans. The Stock Market collapsed, which caused a banking catastrophe. All the banks that were not "part" of the cabal also had to pay their "call claims", which exhausted their money supplies and caused them to go under. Only the small investors, not the "insiders", were destroyed. 

Paul Warburg, who founded the Federal Reserve, tipped off all of the money barons (J. D. Rockefeller, Bernard Baruch, Joe Kennedy, ect.) before the collapse occured. All of these men got out of the market before it crashed - selling their stocks while the prices were still high. Then, when the market collapsed and all of the stocks were at rock bottom prices because everyone was broke, they strolled in and bought all of them. This was when their REAL POWER began. 

Just as a little side note, Joe Kennedy's fortune went from $4 million in 1929 to $100 million in 1935! 

So while many people were standing in line waiting for soup to stay alive...these people were laughing all of the way to the bank.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

FED Chairman Burns once stated that, "A killing can be made simply by knowing the next few months newspapers ahead of time."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

Section 7 of the Federal Reserve Act, passed December 23, 1913, states that much of the profit of the FED should flow into the U.S. Treasury. In 1959, new legislation allowed the FED to transfer bonds to commercial banks at no cost to the bank. Now the FED receives less interest income and less profit for the U.S. Treasury because the money is diverted to other banks through an accounting entry.

Congress and the IRS do not have access to the financial records of the FED. Every year Congress introduces legislation to audit the FED, and every year it is defeated. The FED banking system could easily be netting 100s of billions in profit each year. Through "creative accounting" - profit can easily be reclassified as expense.

Within the first few years, the shareholders of the FED received their initial investment back with no risk. All the income is tax-free, except for property tax, according to the Federal Reserve Act. When are the profits of the FED going to start flowing into the Treasury so that average Americans are no longer burdened with excessive and unnecessary taxes?


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

By abolishing the FED, we would not pay interest on Federal Reserve Notes. Until it is abolished, the FED has a monopoly on profit on our currency and whether our money supply will be increased or decreased, inflation or depression. The banks are capable of controlling business by controlling who can or cannot obtain a loan.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

_"Allow me to control the issue and the nation's money and I care not who makes its laws!"_ 

The above quote has long been attributed to the 18th century banker Amshell Rothschild (his blood line also controls the FED).

For if one unscrupulous group is allowed to print a nation's money - it can eventually use that money to gain control of the press AND the politicians - and thus gain control of making the nation's laws - and finally - control of the nation itself.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 25, 2006)

So now you know that in 1921 the stockholders of the Federal Reserve financed an organization called the "Council on Foreign Relations" (CFR). Harpers magazine called this the most powerful organization in the United States. 

Ninety percent of the people in the State Department and key positions in the Executive Branch are members of the CFR. The CFR publishes a magazine called "Foreign Affairs." Read it if you want to know more about what is going to happen in the coming years. The CFR is in favor of a New World Order.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

Congressman John R. Rarick states that the Council on Foreign Relations CFR) is dedicated to a one world government. The media remains conspicuously quiet. The CFR wants to convert the U.S. from a sovereign, constitutional republic into a servile member state of a one world dictatorship. 

On February 17, 1950, CFR member James Warburg (banker, and architect of the Federal Reserve System) stated before a Senate Foreign Relations Committee, "We shall have one world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent." Again, the media remained silent. 

In the April 1974 issue of the CFR journal, "Foreign Affairs", page 558, Richard Gardener states that the new world order "will be built... but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault." 

Congressman McDonald, Heinz and Tower stated that this is a conspiracy. Again, the media remained silent.

THE CFR WANTS TO ABOLISH THE CONSTITUTION. WE MUST STOP THEM!!


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

Adams, Jefferson, and Lincoln believed that banker capitalism was more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. In a republic, banks would lend money but could not create or manufacture it.

Later Jefferson used stronger language and denounced the institution as "one of the most deadly hostilities against the principles and form of our Constitution."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

When the 1816 charter expired in 1836, Andrew Jackson vetoed its renewal. It was then that he made two famous statements: "The Bank is trying to kill me - but I will kill it!" Later he said "If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system - there would be a revolution before morning..."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

President Lincoln needed money to finance the Civil War, and the international bankers offered him loans at 24-36% interest. Lincoln balked at their demands because he didn't want to plunge the nation into such a huge debt. Lincoln approached Congress about passing a law to authorize the printing of U.S. Treasury Notes. Lincoln said "We gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they ever had - their own paper money to pay their debts..." 

Lincoln printed over 400 million "Greenbacks" (debt and interest-free) and paid the soldiers, U.S. government employees, and bought war supplies. The international bankers didn't like it and wanted Lincoln to borrow the money from them so that the American people would owe tremendous interest on the loan. Lincoln's solution made this seem ridiculous.  

Shortly after Lincoln's death, the government revoked the Greenback law which ended Lincoln's debt-free, interest-free money. A new national banking act was enacted and all money became interest bearing again.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

*The late Thomas A Edison explained the matter of issuing currency this way:* 

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond (interest bearing) it can issue a dollar bill (interest-free). 
The element that makes the bond good makes a bill good also. The difference between the bond and the bill is that the bond lets money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20 percent, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who contribute directly in some useful way. 

It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay: But one promise fattens the usurers (interest collectors) and the other helps the people."


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

John F. Kennedy - a President with vision! On June 4, 1964, President Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110. This Executive Order called for the issuance of new currency - the United States Note. At the time, $4,292,893 of this currency was put into circulation. 

This new currency was to be distributed through the U.S. Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System. Furthermore, it was to be issued debt and interest-free. Upon Kennedy's assassination, this currency was withdrawn from circulation, never to be issued again. 

The media remained silent on how Kennedy would have eliminated the debt and interest payments, and therefore eliminated the FED.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

If we can convert U.S. dollars that are debt and interest-free to interest bearing currency, we can change it back just as easily. Both the media and the banking system will probably claim that such a change will cause hyper- inflation. The answer however, can be found in history. Lincoln printed debt and interest-free Greenbacks (cash) to finance an entire war. With added production you can add currency without having hyper-inflation. Lincoln proved it.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

A FED-like banking system has destroyed other governments. If things keep going the same, the only thing taxes will pay is the interest on the debt. 

Clearly, the FED must be abolished before we're demolished! Already laws are set up to have a dictatorship when we have the economic crisis (Federal Emergency Management Act, or FEMA). 

Under the FED system, when a new dollar is issued, we pay taxes to pay for the dollar as the principal (debt) plus interest on the dollar. We pay for each new dollar twice, and who gets most of the money? The bankers, who control this money. 

Taxpayers should only pay taxes for the paper, ink, and printing costs of new money. Why should we give bankers the right to print money on a printing press, charge them no interest on this money, and then let them exchange their "free" money for a government bond that pays them interest??


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

For the secret owners of the FED to control the volume of money and become our absolute masters, they had to get the Gold away from our grandparents. This was accomplished in 1933 with the threats of fines and imprisonments by their President Franklin D. Roosevelt with aide Harry Hopkins, who said... "Elect, elect, elect, tax, tax, tax, spend, spend, spend, for the people are too damned stupid to understand".


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

The Revolutionary War was fought and the Constitution was written to prevent other nations and private banks from issuing (printing) money and controlling our currency. 

In 1913, members of Congress committed treason and violated their oath of office to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic by voting in the Federal Reserve Bank.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

For the New World Order to create a one world government, they must control a central bank, eliminate the Constitution, end Christian values, disarm America, and control the media. 

The Council on Foreign Relations has openly said they will take us over in favor of a one world government. 

The American people must be warned or we may lose our freedom forever. If we do not demand our rights and uphold the Constitution, the CFR and bankers will continue their march toward socialism. If we allow them to continue, they will abolish our rights and put an end to our present government. 

Once informed, people will demand an explanation why Congress allowed this fraud as the media appeared to be independent and investigative, but remained silent on this important issue. 

The ones who scream the loudest to keep the Federal Reserve Bank are probably the ones who profit from it the most.


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## NuclearWinter (Oct 28, 2006)

We have been robbed of our wealth, and soon we may be bankrupt if there is no change. The FED bankers will LEGALLY OWN OUR NATION; OUR HOUSES, OUR CARS, OUR BUSINESSES, just as Thomas Jefferson predicted.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

In the last several years, our central bank has helped to push through two major pieces of legislation expanding its power over not only the banking system, but the stock market, insurance and real estate industries as well. 

When the stock market crashed in 1929, to safe guard our financial system Congress passed the Glass-Steagall Act separating the commercial activities of banks (savings, checking, deposits and loans) from that of investment banks that bring new stocks and bonds to market, offering them to investor through their in-house stockbrokers. 

Our Federal Reserve worked very hard with the Clinton Administration to pass the Banking Modernization Act in 1999 which erased the Glass-Steagall Act. Furthermore this law expanded the functions of commercial banks to not only syndicate securities but to also sell both personal and commercial insurance as well as real estate, thus creating what is termed, "financial conglomerates."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

Now let's understand what really took place. When Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, this private group of bankers only got control of our monetary system via the banking system. They did not have control over the insurance industry and stock markets. By passing the Banking Modernization Act 86 years later, they now have control over ALL of these areas worth trillions of dollars.

That same year, Congress also passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act with very little fanfare. Former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now a co-Chairman at Citigroup which is a financial conglomerate, praised this bill as being necessary and critical. What it really did was amend key banking laws such as the Banking Act of 1933, the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956, the Federal Deposit Institutions Act, the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 and the International Banking Act of 1978 to substitute the Federal Reserve as being responsible for our financial system instead of Congress! 

The permanent financial revolution that has been waged in America has been without any bullets being fired and with very little explanation from the main stream press.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

While the Federal Reserve is a private corporation, it is also one of the owners of the Bank for International Settlements-BIS which America helped establish in 1930. Bill Clinton's mentor at Georgetown University, Dr. Carroll Quigley, said the BIS was to "serve as a 'Central Bankers' Bank'". 

The BIS is where all of the world's central banks meet to analyze the global economy and determine what course of action they will take next to put more money in their pockets since they control the amount of money in circulation and how much interest they are going to charge governments and banks for borrowing from them. 

Quigley further explained, "The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole." 

"This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

There is not a whole lot of press about its activities, hence it is not a household name. The boot like structure of the BIS is only apparent from the backside. There is nothing about it that indicates it is the most important bank (and building) in the world. When the BIS holds its two-hour annual meeting, those who control the monetary system of their country-the central bank ministers walk to it from nearby hotels.

Over the years, the Bank for International Settlements has amassed more power over the global financial infrastructure then most people are aware of. 

They have a number of very powerful committees such as the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision which has been working on how to regulate not only international banks of the world, but eventually how to regulate and set rules that will pertain to every national bank as well.

 The BIS also includes the Committee on the Global Financial System which monitors financial markets around the world with the objective of identifying potential risks for financial stability, and the Committee on Payment and Settlement Systems which looks to strengthen the infrastructure of financial markets with regard to rules on how to transfer monies and how to make payments between member banks.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

One very important committee of the BIS is the Financial Stability Forum-FSF which was created as a result of the Asian Crisis. Their mandate is to help set up safeguards for the entire global economic system (notice that this responsibility no longer belongs to the individual nation-states). 

It should be noted that Federal Reserve Vice Chairman Roger Ferguson is Committee Chairman of both the Committee on Global Financial Systems and the FSF. This Forum is comprised of the G7 Central Bank Governors, G7 Finance Ministers and the G7 Regulatory Agencies (in the US they are the Comptroller of the Currency and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation). 

In addition, a number of international organizations take active part: the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the International Association of Insurance Supervisors, the International Organization of Security Commissioners and the newly formed International Accounting Standards Board. Besides the G7 countries, there are a number of emerging market countries such as India and China that participate.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

The BIS has continued to push the envelope further in a borderless world. Some of their growing powers have come directly from governments like ours that have transferred the regulatory power they used to have over the banking system to the central bank while the rest comes from the simple fact that they do indeed control the monetary system of the world. 

In an exclusive interview with the new BIS Managing Director Dr. Malcolm Knight , he went on record when he said that, "Central banks need to operate in independence." This means no control by government which is pretty clear by the above changes to American law."

Creepy huh? The thought of Central banks operating completely LAW-FREE!


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

When you understand that the BIS pulls the strings of the world's monetary system, you then understand that they have the ability to create a financial boom or bust in a country. If that country is not doing what the money lenders want, then all they have to do is sell its currency. So when Dr. Knight talks about things like controlling the "financial centers where a lot of hot money could be placed," he is explaining that as a result of the work of the FSF, they are "implementing rules on financial behavior all over the world" which means that what they are really doing is positioning the BIS to be able to control hot money.

The central banks have the financial power over both markets and governments.

Interestingly enough since 1997 the Bank of England and the Bank of Japan have been given more power to determine monetary policy which includes the freedom to set interest rates apart from government opinion and to intervene in foreign exchange markets. These are the same powers as what the Federal Reserve has.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 4, 2006)

Folks, here is a speech from President Kennedy on what will happen to our country if we allow ourselves to become afraid and weak and if we allow for the New World Order to roll out right in front of us without anyone trying to stop it.

I believe that President Kennedy was trying to be honest with the American people when he gave this speech. He was trying to expose some very dirty things that were going on at that time within our own Government and abroad and which have probably only gotten much worse since then.

The Federal Reserve along with Central Banks are just another tool for the conspirators to force their New World Order upon us all. Upon the entire World.

Click on the following blue link to hear what President Kennedy was trying to expose to the people.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1710662559138481080&q=jfk+speech+on+secret+societies


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## Said1 (Nov 4, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Folks, here is a speech from President Kennedy on what will happen to our country if we allow ourselves to become afraid and weak and if we allow for the New World Order to roll out right in front of us without anyone trying to stop it.
> 
> I believe that President Kennedy was trying to be honest with the American people when he gave this speech. He was trying to expose some very dirty things that were going on at that time within our own Government and abroad and which have probably only gotten much worse since then.
> 
> ...



Kennedy was part of the new world order.


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## MGB (Nov 4, 2006)

Songwriter/satirist Tom Lehrer wrote a song for WW III on the premise that it will be over so soon that there will be no time for nostalgic nostrums, such as "Over There" and other light classics.  Here's a snippet:

_Little Johnny Jones was a US pilot, and no shrinking violet was he.
He was mightly proud when World War III was declared,
He wasn't scared, no siree!

And this what he said on, his way to Armageddon:

So long Mom, I'm off to drop the bomb, so don't wait up for me.
Although you may swelter down there in your shelter
You can see me, on your TV.

Don't worry, Mommy. I'm off to get a commie.
So send me a salami and try to smile somehow.
I'll look for you when the war is over......



An hour and a half from now._

I suppose some here will not find this funny, but there IS scientific evidence that there is a positive correlation between intelligence and a sense of homor, so there you go.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 5, 2006)

*President Thomas Jefferson stated:*

 "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."


*President Thomas Jefferson:* 

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed 
corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a 
trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." 


* President Thomas Jefferson:*

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous 
to our liberties than standing armies. Already they 
have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set 
the Government at defiance. The issuing power should 
be taken from the banks and restored to the people to 
whom it properly belongs."  


*President Thomas Jefferson:*

"The system of banking is a blot left in all our 
Constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their 
destruction... I sincerely believe that banking 
institutions are more dangerous than standing 
armies; and that the principle of spending money 
to be paid by posterity...is but swindling futurity on a large scale."


*1812
Source:Liberty Quotes*


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 5, 2006)

*President Andrew Jackson stated:* 

"The Bank is trying to kill me - but I will kill it!" 


*President Andrew Jackson:*

"If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system - there would be a revolution before morning." 


*President Abraham Lincoln stated:*

 "We gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they ever had - their own paper money to pay their debts..." 

(Soon later President Abraham Lincoln was killed. Shortly after Lincoln's death, the government revoked the Greenback law which ended Lincoln's debt-free, interest-free money. A new national banking act was enacted and all money became interest bearing again.)


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 5, 2006)

*President James A. Garfield said:* 

"Whoever controls the money in any country is absolute master of industry and commerce". 


*President Franklin Delano Roosevelt - November 21, 1933:* 

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson."


*President Woodrow Wilson - 1913 "The New Freedom":* 

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."


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## Said1 (Nov 5, 2006)

MGB said:


> I suppose some here will not find this funny, but there IS scientific evidence that there is a positive correlation between intelligence and a sense of homor, so there you go.





Then  I must be a freekin genius, because I'm so damn funny.


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## no1tovote4 (Nov 5, 2006)

Said1 said:


> Then  I must be a freekin genius, because I'm so damn funny.



I'm funny too.  But looks aren't everything!


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## Said1 (Nov 5, 2006)

no1tovote4 said:


> I'm funny too.  But looks aren't everything!



Bah-dump-bump.


Take my wife, PLEASE!


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## no1tovote4 (Nov 5, 2006)

Said1 said:


> Bah-dump-bump.
> 
> 
> Take my wife, PLEASE!



You live in Taxachussets?


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## Said1 (Nov 5, 2006)

no1tovote4 said:


> You live in Taxachussets?



I'm not sure. Do I?


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, John Adams wrote:* 

"All the perplexities, confusions, and distresses in America arise, not from defects in the Constitution or confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, as much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation". 


*Felix Frankfurter - United States Supreme Court Justice:* 

"The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes."


*John. F. Hylan - Mayor of New York City, in a March 26, 1922 speech:* 

"The real menace of our republic is the invisible government which, like a giant octopus, sprawls its slimy length over our city, state and nation. At the head is a small group of banking houses generally referred to as "international bankers". This little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run our government for their own selfish ends."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Louis McFadden - Chairman of the House Banking Committee - describing the Great Depression:* 

"It was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence....the international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so that they might emerge as rulers of us all."


*John Moody - McClure's magazine - August of 1911:* 

"Seven men in Wall Street now control a great share of the fundamental industry and resources in the United States." 


*Congressman Charles Lindbergh - 1913:* 

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

Rep. Louis T. McFadden (R. Pa.) rose from office boy to become cashier and then President of the First National Bank in Canton Ohio. For 12 years he served as Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency, making him one of the foremost financial authorities in America. He fought continuously for fiscal integrity and a return to constitutional government.


*1971 New York Times Magazine - Congressman Louis McFadden - Chairman of the House Committee on Banking & Currency from 1920-1931:* 

"The Federal Reserve Act brought about a super-state controlled by international bankers and international industrialists together to enslave the World for their own pleasure."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*The following are portions of Rep. McFadden's speech, quoted from the Congressional Record, pages 12595-12603:* 

"THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD, A GOVERNMENT BOARD, HAS CHEATED THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OUT OF ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THE NATIONAL DEBT." 

"The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks acting together have cost this country ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THE NATIONAL DEBT SEVERAL TIMES OVER."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*About the Federal Reserve banks, Rep. McFadden said:* 

"They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; the rich and predatory money lenders. This is an era of economic misery and for the reasons that caused that misery, the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks are fully liable."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*On the subject of media control Rep. McFadden stated:* 

"Half a million dollars was spent on one part of the propaganda organized by those same European bankers for the purpose of misleading public opinion in regard to it." 


*Rep. McFadden continued:* 

"Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its power but the truth is the Federal Reserve Board has USURPED THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES. IT CONTROLS EVERYTHING HERE AND IT CONTROLS ALL OUR FOREIGN RELATIONS. IT MAKES AND BREAKS GOVERNMENTS AT WILL."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Rep. McFadden:* 

"No man and no body of men is more entrenched in power than the arrogant credit monopoly which operates the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks. These evil-doers have robbed this country of more than enough money to pay the national debt. What the Government has permitted the Federal Reserve Board to steal from the people should now be restored to the people."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Rep. McFadden:*

"Our people's money to the extent of $1,200,000,000 has within the last few months been shipped abroad to redeem Federal Reserve Notes and to pay other gambling debts of the traitorous Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks. The greater part of our monetary stock has been shipped to foreigners. Why should we promise to pay the debts of foreigners to foreigners? Why should American Farmers and wage earners add millions of foreigners to the number of their dependents? Why should the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks be permitted to finance our competitors in all parts of the world?"


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Rep. McFadden:*

"The Federal Reserve Act should be repealed and the Federal Reserve banks, having violated their charters, should be liquidated immediately." 

"FAITHLESS GOVERNMENT OFFICERS WHO HAVE VIOLATED THEIR OATHS SHOULD BE IMPEACHED AND BROUGHT TO TRIAL."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh of Minnesota said:* 

"This [Federal Reserve] Act establishes the most gigantic trust on Earth. When the President [Wilson] signs this bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalized... the worst legislative crime of the ages, perpetuated by this banking and currency bill." 


*Sir Josiah Stamp - Director of the Bank of England:* 

"Banking was conceived in antiquity and born in sin...Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough money to buy it back again."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Dr. Hans F. Sennholz, Chairman of the Department of Economics at Grove City (PA) College stated:* 

"The Federal Reserve System facilitates the government's own inflationary financing in "periods of emergency." It makes easy the inflationary financing of budget deficits and the inflationary refunding of government loans. It stabilizes the government bond market through inflationary methods and manipulates this market to the advantage of the government. It does all this by wrecking the purchasing power of the dollar; by subtly stealing from the people of this country what it thus provides for the government, through a process exactly on par with the coin clipping of ancient kings but much less visible."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Napoleon, a sympathizer for the international bankers, turned against them in the last years of his rule. He said:* 

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes... Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 6, 2006)

*Robert H. Hemphill (Credit Manager, Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta):* 

"We are completely dependent on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash, or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It [the banking problem] is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects are remedied very soon."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 9, 2006)

*Carroll Quigley - 1966 - Tragedy and Hope:* 

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a World system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the World as a whole."


*Meyer Rothschild:* 

_"Let me issue and control a nation's money, and I care not who writes its laws."_ 


*W. Cleon Skousen - The Naked Capitalist (1970):* 

"Power from any source tends to create an appetitie for additional power...It was almost inevitable that the super-rich would one day aspire to control not only their own wealth, but the wealth of the whole World."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 9, 2006)

*Ambassador William Dodd to President Roosevelt on August 15, 1936 (3 1/2 years after Hitler rose to power):* 

"At the present moment, more than a hundred American corporations have subsidiaries here or cooperative understandings. The DuPonts have three allies in Germany that are aiding in the armament business. Their chief ally is the I. G. Farben Company. The Standard Oil Company sent $2 million here in December 1933, and has made $500,000 a year helping the Germans make Ersatz gas for war purposes."


*Carroll Quigley, 1966 - Tragedy and Hope:* 

"The history of the last century shows us that the advice that was given to Governments by bankers was consistently good for bankers, but was often disastrous for Governments, businessmen, and the people generally." 


*Descent into Slavery, by Des Griffin (Emissary Publications) - 1980:* 

"The majority of Government bonds are held by people who aren't even American citizens. They're international bankers!"


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 9, 2006)

*Vladimir Lenin:* 

"Establishing a central bank is 90% of making a country Communist."


*Sir Winston Churchill:* 

_"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across the truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off and hurry about their business as if nothing had happened." _


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

Ok so most of us already know that the Federal Reserve CORPORATION prints money, and then lends it at interest to our Government. But wait until you see what a total scam this whole process is. Before we get to the meat of this issue, lets remember one thing about the essence of banking -- primarily that money should have some type of standard upon which its value is based. 

In the case of America, we operate on what is called a "gold standard" (i.e. our money is supposed to be backed by gold). 

With that in mind, let's look at how money is actually created for a second. And at what cost. 

Did you guys know that if the Treasury wants to print 1,000 one-hundred ($100) bills, that their total cost for ink, paper, plates, labor, ect. would be approximately $23.00. If you do the math, the total cost of 10,000 $100 bills would be $230.00 ($.023 x 10,000). 

But here's the catch. Ten thousand $100 bills equal $1,000,000! So, the Federal Reserve can "create" a million dollars; and then LEND it to the U.S. Government (with interest) for a total cost of only $230.00! 

The banking industry calls this process "seignorage". What it should be called is OUTRIGHT THEFT. 

Regardless of the immense profit margin ($1,000,000 for only $230.00) plus the huge interest payments, our Government then needs to steal the American people's money in order to pay off their debts via a Mob-like agency called the IRS.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

So the bankers steal from the Government, and then the Government turns around and steals from the people. Who do you think is getting screwed in this process? We are - the people at the bottom rung of the ladder. 

What's worse is that -- now catch your breath -- there isn't enough Gold left in Fort Knox to back up our money and debts!! In other words, the GOLD STANDARD that our financial system was based upon is now an illusion! 

So this means that we pretty much can't convert any more of our money into Gold -- only other currency. Which means that the entire underlying basis for our money is now a lie -- a sham. The Federal Reserve has become so arrogant that they are a literal MONEY MAKING MACHINE, creating currency out of thin air!


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

So thats where the Fed gets their money. They literally make it; then lend it to us so that they can make even MORE money! 

William Grieder, former assistant managing editor of the _Washington Post_, wrote a book in 1987 entitled, _Secrets of the Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the Country_ that details how the Controllers have conditioned us to accept this absurd situation. 

"To modern minds" he writes, "it seemed bizarre to think of the Federal Reserve as a religious institution. Yet the conspiracy theorists, in their own demented way, were onto something real and significant. The Fed did also function in the realm of religion. Its mysterious powers of money creation, inherited from priestly forebears, shielded a complex bundle of social and psychological meanings. With its own form of secret incantation, The Federal Reserve presided over awesome social ritual, transactions so powerful and frightening they seemed to lie beyond common understanding." 

Grieder continues, "Above all, money was a function of faith. It required complicit and universal social consent that was indeed mysterious. To create money and use it, each one must believe, and everyone must believe. Only then did worthless pieces of paper take on value."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

Don't people get it? Money has become an illusion. Why? Because the Gold Standard upon which our money is supposed to be based has been eliminated. There just isn't enough gold left in Fort Knox. Now, money really IS only paper!!! In the past, money was supposed to represent something of tangible value. Now it's simply paper! 

Taken one step further, many of us don't even use paper money anymore. Many places of employment directly deposit their employee's paychecks into the bank. Once the money is there, when bill time comes around, the person in question can write out a stack of checks to pay them. When they need gasoline many people use a debit card; or for groceries they use a credit card. People are even going out to dinner on Friday nights, and charging the tab on their "Diner's card". But what about the tip? They simply scribble in the amount at the bottom of the check. 

During that whole process, so far, that person hasn't spent a single dollar bill. Then, if you bring electronic banking into the picture, we've virtually eliminated the use for money. And so what is going to happen when encoded microchips are implanted into the backs of our hands? 

In essence, money has become nothing more than an illusion -- an electronic figure or amount on a computer screen. That's it! As time goes on, we have an increasing tendency toward being sucked into this "Wizard of Oz" vortex of unreality.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

Think about it though guys. 

Americans as a whole are carrying more personal debt than at any other time in history. And our Government keeps going further and further into the hole, with almost no hope of ever crawling out. 

But we have less and less actual MONEY! We are being enslaved by the debt of electronic blips on a computer screen! And 70% of the banks that control this debt via the Federal Reserve exist in foreign countries! 

What is going on? As author William Bramley says, "The result of this whole system is MASSIVE debt at every level of society." 

We're being manipulated in a sickening way, folks, and the people who are doing it are using the ILLUSION of money as their control device. I hate to say it, but if we allow things to keep going as they are, the situation will only get worse. Our only hope...ONLY HOPE.....is to immediately take drastic action and remedy this crime.


----------



## Annie (Nov 11, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Think about it though guys.
> 
> Americans as a whole are carrying more personal debt than at any other time in history. And our Government keeps going further and further into the hole, with almost no hope of ever crawling out.
> 
> ...



Think abou it Nuclear Winer, in the next 2 months, it's very probable that it will get below freezing and snow in both the Midwest and Northeast. If I were a beting person, I'd wager on it.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

Kathianne,

Your statement has nothing to do with, and is entirely out of context, for what I am posting about relating to our countries money situation. 

It's a grim situation. The outlook is NOT SO GOOD.

Any of your thoughts on that subject just might just help.


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## Annie (Nov 11, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Kathianne,
> 
> Your statement has nothing to do with, and is entirely out of context, for what I am posting about relating to our countries money situation.
> 
> ...


Ya think? And your post have to do with what?


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 11, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Kathianne,
> 
> Your statement has nothing to do with, and is entirely out of context, for what I am posting about relating to our countries money situation.
> 
> ...



Forget it ----She's having one of those moods.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

Kathianne,

Money is nothing more than a way of keeping score - it has no more intrinsic value than notches on a stick or binary on/off states in a computer memory bank. The productivity of a people is where true wealth lies. 

Money keeps track of that productivity and allows the facile transfer of that productivity. The central banks that print currency and lend it at interest are the prime culprits. 

This money that was created from nothing is lent out. But at a later time, the central bankers end up owning the entire productivity of nations. There can be little doubt that foreign debt is the way the international bankers drain the wealth from nations or that the IMF is the greatest legalized racket on the planet.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 11, 2006)

If we eliminate the FED and uphold the Constitution, we could balance the budget and cut personal income tax to almost nothing. In Congressional hearings on September 30, 1941, FED Chairman Eccles basicly admitted that the FED creates new money from thin air (printing press), and loans it back to us at interest. On June 6, 1960, FED President Mr. Allen admitted essentially the same thing. If you or I did this we would go to jail. 

It is time to abolish the FED! Tell your friends the truth and win America back. We don't even need to buy back the FED. We only need to print money the way the Constitution requires, not the new proposed international money. We need to keep our sovereignty and print real U.S. money.


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## akiboy (Nov 12, 2006)

*


NuclearWinter said:



			Here are some very interesting things about the future that might relate to China's attacks in 2006 (the attacks which could start World War 3). 


The Bible code has these predictions for 2006 and Japan: 


The words "Great Earthquake" and "Japan" appear in the Bible Code next to the year "2006". 

Next to the year "2006" appear the words "Economic Collapse" along with "Fire" and "Earthquake struck Japan". 


The reason why these two predictions are so important for the future is because Japan is currently the only other country in on the Eastern side of the world that can even begin to compete with China for control of the Pacific Market. 

But here's where I see China making it's move. The two predictions above state that there will be a Great Earthquake in Japan in 2006, right? Well, that would be a perfect opportunity for China to makes it move for dominance over the Pacific Market. And China would do it militarily. 

The other prediction above states that Japan's economy will "collapse" as a result of the Earthquake. Again, another perfect time for China to attack. I see this as the time when China would be most likely to show it's true colors. 

China and Japan don't really like eachother, lets face it. Their wars with eachother go all the way back to the days of the Mongolian Empire and the attacks on the Japanese Island. They are in total competition with eachother for control of that part of the world. 

So....If Japan's economy and civilization was to be even partially destroyed by a Major Earthquake in 2006, then China would not hesitate to take that to it's advantage for world conquest. The Chinese are growing faster than anyone, and this prediction is a grave sign of things to come. 

If this Earthquake does strike Japan in 2006, I am willing to bet that it will be the moment when China will start to trigger the War. And I believe that it will do so anytime between 2006-2009.
		
Click to expand...

*

If China tries to screw up Asia with its shitty PLA , its Dong Feng ICBM 's and Communist influence India will do everything in its might to stop it (Yes! Even send in a missile into Beijing ). China may be growing faster economically and militarily but so is India. Maybe not as fast as the Red Dragon but we certainly have the military might to stop Chinese advance into Asia. Let me remind you that India has still not forgotten 1962 when the Communists attacked us and stole our territory (even if it was a bit of ice). There is a huge board in the  mess hall of the Indian Northern Army Headquarters that says" India shall regain every inch of its  lost sacred sovereign soil back from the Chinese !". And I am telling you WE mean it! Even if it means disintegrating our economy we will fight the Communists till the end IF the scenario which you menationed happens! I know it sounds suicidal but India also has nukes which it can use rightfully at the time of war i.e IF the other nation fires one at us(And knowing China they will. Please refer to their military policy on this issue.It says in the time of war China will cripple the enemy with one blow:-swift and lethal (ziming daji).Now what the hell is that supposed to mean please do find out).


Akshay


----------



## Gunny (Nov 12, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Kathianne,
> 
> Your statement has nothing to do with, and is entirely out of context, for what I am posting about relating to our countries money situation.
> 
> ...



Just in case you've missed the obvious, nobody gives a shit about your 53 pages of doomsday moonbatism.  You aren't debating anything, just preaching nonsense.  A complete waste of bandwidth.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 12, 2006)

akiboy said:


> If China tries to screw up Asia with its shitty PLA , its Dong Feng ICBM 's and Communist influence India will do everything in its might to stop it (Yes! Even send in a missile into Beijing ). China may be growing faster economically and militarily but so is India. Maybe not as fast as the Red Dragon but we certainly have the military might to stop Chinese advance into Asia. Let me remind you that India has still not forgotten 1962 when the Communists attacked us and stole our territory (even if it was a bit of ice). There is a huge board in the  mess hall of the Indian Northern Army Headquarters that says" India shall regain every inch of its  lost sacred sovereign soil back from the Chinese !". And I am telling you WE mean it! Even if it means disintegrating our economy we will fight the Communists till the end IF the scenario which you menationed happens! I know it sounds suicidal but India also has nukes which it can use rightfully at the time of war i.e IF the other nation fires one at us(And knowing China they will. Please refer to their military policy on this issue.It says in the time of war China will cripple the enemy with one blow:-swift and lethal (ziming daji).Now what the hell is that supposed to mean please do find out).
> 
> 
> Akshay




Yeah very interesting.

I think China is acting very strange to say the least. As we speak. Almost as if they are just waiting.....watching....preying....

If you think about it. Every time we ask China to get serious they refuse when it comes to problems like North Korea and Iran. These are the two countries that have been prophesized to be involved in World War 3 and who will be China's allies.

So it makes no surprise to me why China would continuously allow for Iran and North Korea to pretty much get away with murder. Why not? China will need them when the time comes.

Keep in mind, I hope World War 3 doesn't happen as has been predicted. I hope it doesn't happen at all. I hope the people of China are able to overthrow their Government and that Iran and North Korea will dissolve their Nuclear Programs before the shit really begins to hit the fan. 

However, that seems very unlikely to happen given the way things are going right now. And since I believe in prophecy, and I have been provided with these prophecies, I feel that if World War 3 takes center stage on the World, that now we will all have a much better idea of how it will unfold.

That is, of course, for those who choose to believe in them.


----------



## CivilLiberty (Nov 12, 2006)

Nuclear Winter - in an effort to help you, I've provided this handy link:


http://zapatopi.net/afdb/


CL


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 12, 2006)

Thanks Civil.


----------



## Gunny (Nov 12, 2006)

CivilLiberty said:


> Nuclear Winter - in an effort to help you, I've provided this handy link:
> 
> 
> http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
> ...


----------



## rtwngAvngr (Nov 14, 2006)

akiboy said:


> If China tries to screw up Asia with its shitty PLA , its Dong Feng ICBM 's and Communist influence India will do everything in its might to stop it (Yes! Even send in a missile into Beijing ). China may be growing faster economically and militarily but so is India. Maybe not as fast as the Red Dragon but we certainly have the military might to stop Chinese advance into Asia. Let me remind you that India has still not forgotten 1962 when the Communists attacked us and stole our territory (even if it was a bit of ice). There is a huge board in the  mess hall of the Indian Northern Army Headquarters that says" India shall regain every inch of its  lost sacred sovereign soil back from the Chinese !". And I am telling you WE mean it! Even if it means disintegrating our economy we will fight the Communists till the end IF the scenario which you menationed happens! I know it sounds suicidal but India also has nukes which it can use rightfully at the time of war i.e IF the other nation fires one at us(And knowing China they will. Please refer to their military policy on this issue.It says in the time of war China will cripple the enemy with one blow:-swift and lethal (ziming daji).Now what the hell is that supposed to mean please do find out).
> 
> 
> Akshay





India should be our ally in the region.  Not pakistan,  fuck pakistan, they're practically the enemy.   We just lie to ourselves, and musharaff lies to us too.  We seem to enjoy it.  I was embarrassed when we admonished india for testing.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

*Abraham Lincoln said shortly before being re-elected to his second term:*

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of my Country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."


*Senator George W. Malone (to Congress in 1962):*

"I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over the past 49 years, they would move on Washington, they would not wait for an election....it adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States."


*Congressman William E. Simon (In a speech to the House of Representatives on the problems of the Federal Reserve System, April 30, 1976):*

"I hear no one addressing this danger. Congress does not discuss it. The press does not discuss it. Look around us - the press isn't even here! The people do not discuss it - they are unaware of it. No counter-force in America is being mobilized to fight this danger. The battle is being lost, and not a shot is being fired."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

*Congressman Wright Patman (Chairman, House Banking & Currency Committee):*

"In the United States we have, in effect, two governments...We have the duly Constitutional government...then we have an independent, uncontrolled and uncoordinated government in the Federal Reserve System operating the money powers which are reserved to Congress by the Constitution."


*Congressman Wright Patman (May 5, 1975):*

"In its sixty-year history, the Federal Reserve System has never been subjected to a complete, independent audit, and it is the only important agency that refuses to consent to an audit by the Congressional agency, the General Accounting Office."


*Senator Barry Goldwater:*

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international moneylenders. The bankers want it that way."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

*President Andrew Jackson (1833, to the shadow banking moguls):* 

"You are a den of thieves -- vipers. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out!"


*President Andrew Jackson:*

"If Cogress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given to them to use by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations."


*Gary Allen (None Dare Call It Conspiracy):*

"Using a central bank to create alternate periods of inflation, deflation, and thus whipsawing the public for vast profits, has been worked out by the international bankers to an exact science."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

*Tim Madel, The Spotlight (March 30, 1992):*

Banks are businesses. Businesses have one reason for existence: profit. Everything the business does is in the pursuit of profits."


*Anthony Sutton (The Federal Reserve Conspiracy):* 

"Nothing is more dangerous to the power of the elite than the public discovery and understanding of the private control of the money supply."


*H.L. Mencken:*

"I feel sorry for the man who, after reading the daily newspaper, goes to bed believing he knows something of what's going on in the World."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> India should be our ally in the region.  Not pakistan,  fuck pakistan, they're practically the enemy.   We just lie to ourselves, and musharaff lies to us too.  We seem to enjoy it.  I was embarrassed when we admonished india for testing.




Be careful not to include the people of Pakistan under your definition of "the enemy".

They are but pawns in their Government's giant chessboard just as the majority of the American people have allowed ourselves to become by not standing up for whats right and forcing a change in the policy of our own distorted system of corruption.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

The true terrorists are the international bankers who manipulate our Federal Reserve System for their own personal gain. The Federal Reserve is a prviately-owned corporation (not part of our Federal Government), a nefarious cabal of international financiers who lied, connived and ultimately pried the reins of control over our money supply away from Congress.

If we don't return the creation of our nation's money to Congress as set forth in the Constitution and destroy the Federal Reserve System, it is almost guaranteed that Americal will no longer be a global super-power by the next decade.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

Now you know that the Federal Reserve is not part of the Federal Government, nor is it an institution run by the United States Government.

Instead, the Federal Reserve System is an aggregate of private banks owned by international bankers.

Although it is called "Federal", those who created the Federal Reserve took great measures not to call it a "privately owned central bank". Why? Because if they told the truth, the American people would realize that what they instituted was too much like what Karl Marx described in the "Communist Manifesto". 

The primary tenet of Communism is a central bank. Thus, "Federal Reserve" (a misnomer) sounds more like a governmental agency, even though the terminology was ultimately used to deceive the people.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

In essence, the Federal Reserve is a PRIVATE company operated FOR PROFIT where decisions are made behind closed doors and only those who are privy to this process know about the policies beforehand.

Stated differently, since the Federal Reserve is not part of the government, but a private organization OWNED by member banks, they become aware of financial information before everyone else. When they finally make it public (e.g., new interest rated) they're already one-step ahead of the game. Essentially they've rigged the system in their favor.

Picture it like this: How would you like to get a copy of _Fortune_ Magazine or the _Wall Street Journal_ a month before everyone else so you could make a host of financial decisions? Well, that's what these bankers are doing.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

Who is the financial gain derived from? The United States Government! And who PAYS via taxes to support our government? We do! 

Something sounds fishy about this arrangement. Why? Well, our Constitution, specifically Article 1, Section 8, Subjection 5, gives ONLY Congress the right to "coin Money, and regulate the Value thereof."

How did the Federal Reserve, a private company operated for financial gain and controlled by private stockholders, seize control of this crucially important aspect of our government?

Think about how sinister this is. The Constitution -- the most sacred document of our democracy -- says only Congress can create money. But now we have private bankers, NOT elected officials, handling our money supply and reaping huge, perpetual profits along the way.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

For people who are questioning these facts, take a peek at a Washington, DC phone book sometime. Here's what you'll find. The DC phone book is divided into four sections: a) general information, b) residential numbers, c) the Blue Pages -- United States and District of Columbia governmental listings, and d) business listings.

Now, where do you think the Federal Reserve should be included? If you still think its part of the government, then it should be section 3 - the Blue Pages. But no. Guess where it is? It's section 4, under BUSINESS LISTINGS!


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

For those people still not convinced, how about the simple fact (As quoted by certain senators, politicians, and authors), that the Federal Reserve has never been audited by an independent auditor - EVER!

How many other companies or individuals have been given such carte blanche since 1913 (when it was created)?

In addition, Congress has never investigated the FED. The Federal Reserve determines its own legislation and is not subject to the President or Congress. Although its board members are supposably "appointed" by the President and "approved" by some members of Congress, the core of them come from the inner sanctum of the Wall Street banking elite, and almost all of them belong to the Council on Foreign Relations.

This unrestricted power gives the FED a virtual monopoly over our financial matters, allowing them to control interest rates and the size of our national money supply.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

Again, The FED lends money to our government, at interest, and then demands repayment. How does that happen? Well, the government instituted a little thing called the Income Tax whereby they take money from our paychecks. And the more money they owe the international bankers, the more they pinch from our checks.

Take a look at the percentage of our income that has been subject to taxation over the past nine decades. Have taxes gone up or come down? We all know the answer to that one -- UP!

Finally, now that we've learned that this disastrous situation is actually true, we need to ask ourselves (if you haven't already), why doesn't the media or at least our college professor tell us about it?

The answer is simple. Every member of the mainstream media (CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, _Time_ Magazine, the _New York Times_, _Washington Post_, _Newsweek_, and _U.S. News and World Report_) is owned by vast multinational corporations, and these corporations are owned by whom? You got it -- the international bankers.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

In regard to acedemia, universities rely quite heavily on grant money from Foundations and state funding. I'm sorry to say that the international bankers control these foundations too, and that they have the state in their back pockets.

So, is it any wonder that both institutions are mum on the subject of the Federal Reserve corruption? If you were royally biking the American people out of trillions of dollars a year, would you want them to know about it? Hardly.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

When this country was founded over two centuries ago, our Founding Fathers realized the importance of being free from outside influences, especially when they realized America's vast financial potential. By pursuing their independence, America was essentially cutting the aristocratic banking families of Europe out of the loop.

In this vein, then, the American Revolution did not take place primarily because of taxation without representation (as we've been taught), but because the European financiers didn't want us to be able to create our own money. By eliminating them and the interest paid on their loans, we didn't allow ourselves to be enslaved by usury and debt. This the American Revolution was actually a battle over who controlled our money!


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

Regrettably, even though America eventually became a sovereign nation, it didn't take long for the international bankers to get a foothold into our financial matters.

The First Bank of North America was founded in 1781. The most disturbing aspect of this institution was that only 20% of the money used to create it came from the United States Government and 80% of it originated from foreign investors, namely the Rothschilds. Luckily, this bank folded in 1790, and it's charter was not renewed.

But the international bankers didn't give up that easily. When they want something badly enough, the best method to achieve it is through war. So, the War of 1812 was, in essence "designed" by the same financiers to send American businesses into chaos so that they'd be forced to form a 2nd Bank of North America. But due to our hearty nature, the going was tough for those who wanted to infiltrate and corrupt our financial matters. This was particularly true when the "Controllers" came up against President Andrew Jackson, who staunchly opposed any notion of a central bank.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

President Andrew Jackson, who was truly one of the greatest Presidents in our country's history, became such a bane to the international bankers that he was the first Commander-in-Chief to be the target of an assassin. The gunman who tried to kill him was Richard Lawrence, who acted as an agent for the European banking institutions.

Unwilling to abate their efforts to control our money, the Rothschild brothers wrote a letter in 1863 that described the American populace as "the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantages that Capital derives from the system..."

It sounds like they had plenty of respect for us, huh? About as much as they have for us today, which doesn't say a whole lot.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

At that point, the Rothschilds were getting so desperate to get a piece of our pie, that they resorted to a horrendously despicable act to tear our country apart.

What did they do? Well, they set forces into action that began our Civil War in the 1860's. Now most people aren't aware of this fact, but a group of Rothschild agents in the United States began giving money to both sides -- The Union and the Confederates -- to get each sector of the country deeply indebted to them. Their ultimate plan was to have the South secede from the Union, and then to let each new country rip itself apart to such an extent that they'd be in dept up to their ears.

Finally, when the bloodshed ended, both new severed, decimated countries ended up crawling on their hands and knees to the Rothschild boys to borrow even MORE money to rebuild. The result was vast amounts of debt, and this is how the control finally ended up shifting from us to them.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

When the 20th century began, it was estimated that the Rothschild family owned HALF of the World's total wealth. Think about that for a moment. One family possessed half of everything in the World. 

Considering that the Rothschilds were ruthless bankers with a penchant for having things go their way, do you think it's safe to say that they had some input on what was going on in the World?

Using pratices that were stolen from the Knights Templar, the Rothschilds perfected their banking system on a local level in Europe; and then transported it globally to be implemented in various parts of the World. They did this by using secret agents who were paid off via loans, salaries, or appointed positions within a company. Some of the men utilized to undermine our country were Jacob Schiff, J.P. Morgan and Paul Warburg, whose incredible accumulation of power in the United States in the late 1800's was mind-boggling.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

Here's the way it worked: 

The Rothschilds were king of the mountain in Europe, running a majority of the influential banking houses. Then, setting their sights on America, they sent Paul Warburg to our country where he began laying the groundwork to create a central bank patterned after the German Reichbank. 

Another German to enter this equation was an Illuminati member named Jacob Schiff. Schiff came to America for the sole purpose of getting control of our financial system. Serving as a direct tool of the Rothschilds, he soon became head of the banking firm Kuhn, Loeb & Company.

More important, Jacob Schiff began laying an octopus-like network that connected bankers like J.P. Morgan, Paul Warburg, and the Rockefeller family. One of the perks of being involved in this cabal was access to the Rothschilds money, which was demonstrated by the Rockefellers, whose first loans in the 19th century came from the National City Bank in Clevelend.

Guess who owned the National City Bank in Clevelend  (and two others) at that time? Yup, the Rothschilds. Over time, these agents, especially J.P. Morgan and Co., ran practicly all the banking, oil, steel, and business that took place in America.


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## Kagom (Nov 14, 2006)

WILL YOU PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP?  SERIOUSLY.

You're annoying as hell.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

Kagom said:


> WILL YOU PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP?  SEIROUSLY.
> 
> You're annoying as hell.



Extremely sorry if History upsets you.

However, Please keep in mind, YOU CLICKED ON THIS THREAD.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

At this point, some people reading this might be saying, "Oh well, thats just American Capitalism at work." And y'know, they'd have a point about that if everything was done above board. But these Rothschild-led agents didn't play fairly. Rules didn't matter to them. All they cared about was more power, wealth and influence. So they manipulated industry, commerce, and especially the financial markets. 

A perfect example is the Panic of 1907, which was deliberately set into motion by J.P. Morgan's banks and the Rockefeller/Standard Oil people. While thousands of "little people" lost everything they had to this artificially created collapse, the bankers who implemented it reaped enormous rewards due to inside information and foreknowledge. Thus, a few men became even wealthier than they already were, while the majority of helpless citizens were wiped-out.

But the final blow came when certain people ("moles") started whispering that a central bank was needed to prevent another one of these tragedies from occurring. The stage was finally set for the implementation of the "Federal Reserve" system, which if things don't change soon, might just end up being the downfall of our country and our civilization.


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## glockmail (Nov 14, 2006)

Kagom said:


> WILL YOU PLEASE SHUT THE F[...] UP?  SEIROUSLY.
> 
> You're annoying as hell.



Has anyone contributed to this thread, or is this guy just talking to himself? This is really weird.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

glockmail said:


> Has anyone contributed to this thread, or is this guy just talking to himself? This is really weird.



Or better yet glock, I have a great idea.

How about asking a question that relates to what this thread is about?

Just a thought.....


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## Kagom (Nov 14, 2006)

glockmail said:


> Has anyone contributed to this thread, or is this guy just talking to himself? This is really weird.


No one's really contributed.  Nuclear Winter's just a psycho running conspiracy theory bullshit.  I'd rather listen to you talk about the supposed evils of homosexuality.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 14, 2006)

Kagom said:


> No one's really contributed.  Nuclear Winter's just a psycho running conspiracy theory bullshit.  I'd rather listen to you talk about the supposed evils of homosexuality.



Conspiracy Theory Bullshit?

Please Kagom....after making a statement like that...please explain to me in detail how any of what I have been posting is bullshit.

You want to make the statement that fine. But why not at least back up your opinion with some facts?


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## akiboy (Nov 15, 2006)

*


rtwngAvngr said:



			India should be our ally in the region.  Not pakistan,  fuck pakistan, they're practically the enemy.   We just lie to ourselves, and musharaff lies to us too.  We seem to enjoy it.  I was embarrassed when we admonished india for testing.
		
Click to expand...

*

Exactly. Imagine if India became a major US ally then America would have a 
3 powerful nations (India , Japan , S.Korea ) as its allys in Asia.
Pakistan is very very unpredictable. Buying missiles from Beijing and showing a sweet face to Washington. India atleast has a clean record. Yes we are friendly with Russia *BUT* we would never go against Russia/America. Anyways the Soviet dosent exist anymore so I guess America's prime concerns in global affairs would be N.K , terror , nuke proliferation , Iran , China's military and economic rise etc etc. and not spying on the Moscow Insititute of Heat Engineering where the Topol M ICBM's are made!


Akshay


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## akiboy (Nov 15, 2006)

Hey Nuclear Winter (wow!where did u get the name from ? were you born during the cold war?) IF you dont mind could you condense all your 55 pages of info into 1 post ? I mean no one seems really interested in reading all the stuff you posted here.. I came across this thread and even though I did not read anything I found a few of your points interesting and you might have seen that I posted some stuff here. Well , i would recommend you to voice out what exactly you want to say and write the whole damn stuff into  a big essay type paragraph so that we can come to know what exactly you want to say!



Akshay


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## glockmail (Nov 15, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Or better yet glock, I have a great idea.
> 
> How about asking a question that relates to what this thread is about?
> 
> Just a thought.....


 Earth to NuclearWinter: when you are up to 800 plus posts talking to yourself, everyone has it figured out that you are off your rocker. No offense, of course.


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## glockmail (Nov 15, 2006)

Kagom said:


> No one's really contributed.  Nuclear Winter's just a psycho running conspiracy theory bullshit.  I'd rather listen to you talk about the supposed evils of homosexuality.


 Supposed? I'm still praying for you, man.


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## José (Nov 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted by *Kagom*
> No one's really contributed. Nuclear Winter's just a psycho running conspiracy theory bullshit. I'd rather listen to you talk about the supposed evils of homosexuality.





> Originally Posted by *NuclearWinter*
> Please Kagom....after making a statement like that...please explain to me in detail how any of what I have been posting is bullshit.



This is (among other things) what Kagom was referring to, NW:

The first two paragraphs of post number 1 by NuclearWinter:



> I am going to list a mix of current information and psychic predictions for the World War that is supposed to occur within the next 3 years involving China, Libya, Syria, USA, Russia, and a few others.
> 
> All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics who have been tested over time and who have proven themselves time and time again.



Psychics making predictions on future developments in international politics...

It doesn't get any nuttier than this, buddy.


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## Annie (Nov 15, 2006)

Bottom line, if you are going to 'throw shite', expect the same. Awhile back I posted nonsense, which was the same as what was supposed to 'generate discussion.' It could do no more. Certainly couldn't provide insight to anything, because it was nothing to begin with. 

If this seems inanane, go back to the beginning and read through. Then you will be committed.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 15, 2006)

You guys really need to open your minds a little.  You've turned into little sheeple who only allow your minds to operate within certain fixed parameters.


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## Annie (Nov 15, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> You guys really need to open your minds a little.  You've turned into little sheeple who only allow your minds to operate within certain fixed parameters.



If you claim to have opened your mind, go back and pick up your brain, you've lost it, long ago.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 15, 2006)

Kathianne said:


> If you claim to have opened your mind, go back and pick up your brain, you've lost it, long ago.



Oh yeah?  In what way?  Do go on.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 16, 2006)

To all those who posted in my direction.....

I just want to add that I care not to argue about this information other than to point out facts.

I have seen alot of people's viewpoints as to how "crazy" I am, but very few people, other than maybe Rtwng, Akiboy, and a few others from the past have ever actually commented on the points in this thread and offered an opion on THOSE POINTS, whether he/she believes in them or not, he/she still chooses to address the issues, and not skip to judgements on the person who is posting them.

Facts are facts people. Who are you wanting to judge here? I have provided evidence up the yang in this thread relating to what I am talking about. Yes, I find it easy to see why people would immediately jump on the psychic predictions, because those are probably the easiest to try and thwart. However, it still doesn't mean that they aren't true, or that the events described will not unfold within the near future.

But thats not the only part of this thread to begin with. As to what I have been posting lately, about the Federal Reserve system in America, I have provided evidence upon evidence and the names of real organizations as well as real quotes that came from real people, President's, Congressmen, Authors, Doctors, Insiders (Federal Reserve employees), ect., all of which have stated in THEIR OWN WORDS, that our Federal Reserve system is destroying our country, and that our monetary system might end up being the end of our civilization as we know it, if things don't change soon.

Some of what I post is my opinion, yes, this is true, but MOST of what I post is backed up with factual evidence. The psychic predictions are the exception, because there is always an exception, but when it comes to those, I would simply ask of the people who read them to keep an open mind, and to not judge what they are saying.

Other facts relating to the psychic predictions are these.

All of the war predictions that I posted mentioned problems relating to WW3 that will involve the following countries, China, North Korea, Iran, Israel, USA, Syria, Libya, Russia, and a few others.

Have people been watching the news lately? These are the countries which are at the forefront at the moment. These are the big players involved in what might be WW3 already, the beginning stages anyways. So the psychic predictions, regardless of exact dates, have been right on the money.

I stated when I began this post that 2006 would be the beginning of World War 3. This was my opinion of course, but it was based on more than that. It was based on studying, intuition, observence of World events, and the 7 year tribulation period mentioned in the Bible.

Now, if you are to keep an open mind on this subject, you might come to terms with the fact that when Israel invaded Lebanon this year (2006), and Iran announced it's plans to continue expanding it's nuclear program, this year (2006), and North Korea decided for the first time in known history to test a couple of so called "nuclear weapons", this year, (2006), and that Syria and Iran have been stepping up their efforts with helping the insurgents in Iraq and gaining ground in that area of the World, in this year (2006), then you could easily come to the conclusions that this year (2006) was the spark that started the beginning stages of WW3.

Of course, you could argue against that fact, but I still believe that if we are in the beginning stages of this war, that in the year 2009, just like the Bible code says, that this War will reach it's peak, and it will involve all major nations of the World, and that by that time, we will be thrust into what might be the most gigantic series of battles this World has ever seen, or that recent man has ever engaged in.

These are the possibilities. Let's hope that they don't come to fruition. But as things are looking at the moment, things are going exactly as predicted.

Aside from all of that, I have provided evidence leading up to the fact that there is a NWO being planned right under all of our noses, and that the majority of people are still unwilling to accept that possibility. 

I am not ashamed of anything I have posted, and I do not have a problem with people trying to add their viewpoints to this thread. But from what I have seen so far, very little viewpoints have been directed towards this information, but have instead been directed towards me (as a person), and my mental health and state of mind. 

What kind of progress is that going to make? Really? Judging the person and not their work is entirely wrong. If people have a problem with the information that I have been posting about, then why not talk about what you disagree with? 

Thats all I'm trying to do here. Is to provide people with both evidence and fact, as well as possibilities, and I am completely open to debates on whether the information is true or false, but I am not open to a debate on whether I am mentally ill or insane. Because that is not the purpose of this thread. Nor has it ever been.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 16, 2006)

akiboy said:


> Hey Nuclear Winter (wow!where did u get the name from ? were you born during the cold war?) IF you dont mind could you condense all your 55 pages of info into 1 post ? I mean no one seems really interested in reading all the stuff you posted here.. I came across this thread and even though I did not read anything I found a few of your points interesting and you might have seen that I posted some stuff here. Well , i would recommend you to voice out what exactly you want to say and write the whole damn stuff into  a big essay type paragraph so that we can come to know what exactly you want to say!
> 
> 
> 
> Akshay




Askhay,

My name serves one purpose for myself, which is a reminder to others of what atrocities war brings to this planet.

A Nuclear Winter is not a pleasant thought at all. Indeed this was my purpose for choosing that name.

A wake up call for all those who take pride in war. And believe me there are those that do. As well as a wake up call for all those who have forgotten what Nuclear Bombs are truly capable of, and how wicked and destructive their creation has become.

Nothing other than that. Thats the purpose of my name.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 16, 2006)

Look at the huge amounts of money going place to place, to keep countries indebted to one group or another. And what of the production facilities which have their beginnings in this county, but have been bought up by foreign entities, and the more recent trend of eliminating all production means in this country and sending those jobs to countries which are more concerned with getting more at the expense of their own people, the companies' incentives to get those countries to limit the worker's ability to prevent abusive practices because the cost may be a little more than they want to pay. Or how, by keeping the same prices here, but not the jobs, the ability of the individual to pay for goods is undermined while the same corparations are giving millions in rewards to their top management, and the lowest paid employee can't even get a decent pay raise.

Two of the largest economies, japan and germany, are rapidly buying up american industry. We fought a world war to take them both down after they became aggressive towards other nations, now, we owe them billions which is going out of this country at the expense of the US as a whole. and there is no end in sight. The question now is, how long before this nation is bankrupt financially? And which countries will make us their slaves just to eat at any time they choose?

When will this nation's leaders put a stop to the draining of this nation so a priveledged few can continue to live in luxury at the expense of the rest of the country poulation which will soon be unable to even buy food for themselves?


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 16, 2006)

*FACT:* The privately owned Federal Reserve charges the American people over $47 million dollars in interest every hour. EVERY HOUR!

As previously stated, the Federal Reserve is not part of our government, but is instead a privately owned corporation that makes incredible profits off of the money that they lend to our country in interest. And as our country is further strangled by the debt to these international bankers, the government continues to steal our money through increased taxation.

The end result is a form of enslavement enacted on the American people by a cabal of Globalists lurking in the shadows.

To save our nation, we must destroy the Federal Reserve System; and then default on that portion of our national debt owed to these international bankers. If we fail to eliminate the Federal Reserve or to get the "Controllers" out of our financial affairs, then it won't matter what else we do because they'll still have an iron grip on our money supply.


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## mattskramer (Nov 16, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> I am going to list a mix of current information and psychic predictions for the World War that is supposed to occur within the next 3 years involving China, Libya, Syria, USA, Russia, and a few others.
> 
> All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics who have been tested over time and who have proven themselves time and time again.
> 
> ...



Oh, please.  There is no such thing as a true psychic. I doubt that these people have truly been scientifically tested.  Their success rate does not reach statistical significance.     Why have so-called psychics never won a state lottery?  The Amazing Randi, a person that I greatly respect, still has his Million Dollar Challenge. See http://www.randi.org/research/ and invite your psychics to take the challenge. 

As far as Im concerned, psychics are cruel people who prey on the gullible and desperate.  They practically constitute the worst class of people that I know.

Also look at http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm People have been trying to predict wars and the end of the world and similar stuff throughout the ages. All that you have is speculation and superstition.  Did you read your horoscope or buy a fortune cookie lately? By the way, Jean Dixon is a quack.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 16, 2006)

mattskramer said:


> Oh, please.  There is no such thing as a true psychic. I doubt that these people have truly been scientifically tested.  Their success rate does not reach statistical significance.     Why have so-called psychics never won a state lottery?  The Amazing Randi, a person that I greatly respect, still has his Million Dollar Challenge. See http://www.randi.org/research/ and invite your psychics to take the challenge.
> 
> As far as Im concerned, psychics are cruel people who prey on the gullible and desperate.  They practically constitute the worst class of people that I know.
> 
> Also look at http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm People have been trying to predict wars and the end of the world and similar stuff throughout the ages. All that you have is speculation and superstition.  Did you read your horoscope or buy a fortune cookie lately? By the way, Jean Dixon is a quack.



Well at least you commented on SOMETHING. lol.

Of course I personally disagree with just about everything you said. But I'm sure you already knew that.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 16, 2006)

Hey mattskramer,

How do you feel about World War 3. Do you think it has already begun? Do you think it's possible? Do you have any idea of what countries may be involved? And do you think that we will win?

Here's another question for you.

If we lost World War 3, what do you think would happen to our country? 

As creepy as the scenario of losing World War 3 might be, I'm just curious as to see what your thoughts are on the subject.


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## Kagom (Nov 16, 2006)

World War III is imminent.  It'll happen regardless, but whether in our lifetimes or not is the question.


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## Annie (Nov 16, 2006)

Kagom said:


> World War III is imminent.  It'll happen regardless, but whether in our lifetimes or not is the question.



To my way of thinking we are way into WWIV.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 17, 2006)

I wonder if there will be wwIII.  Sometimes I think our leaders will just come to us one day and be like, "Well,  we're done.  China has nukes pointed at us, and they have all the dollars, we have to do what they want."

That will be it.  America done.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 17, 2006)

As it stands now, the United States Government pays $360 billion dollars a year in interest payments alone -- that's billions - 10% of our entire Federal budget. Worse, the international bankers represent 37% of our national debt, and two banks (Chase Manhattan and Citibank) control 53% of the New York Federal Reserve. Finally, 7 of the top 10 primary shareholders in the Federal Reserve are foreign entities.

In essence what we have are foreign bankers and two Wall Street powerhouses practicly running our country.

Don't the people get it? The President, Congress, and voters don't decide most of what takes place in the United States of America. Foreign bankers and two financial corporations are almost in charge of our entire countries destiny! That is the sick reality of our situation. And I guarantee people, not one thing will change until we get these "Controllers" out of our pockets.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 17, 2006)

Daddy Warbucks himself, Mr. James Warburg, who was the primary architect of America's Federal Reserve Act in 1913, admitted to _Nation_ magazine on February 3rd, 1932 (right before his death): "I have studied finance and economic and international trade all my life, and now after these recent events, I have come to the conclusion that I know nothing about any of them."

With this quote in mind, I'd like to lay out a little more evidence as to why the Federal Reserve is the most damaging institution in America, and how its primary goal is to continue to grow larger in stature by stealing increased amounts of our hard-earned money.

As stated before, the Federal Reserve is a privately owned for-profit organization that is operated by the richest men in the World, and it is NOT a part of the Federal Government.

These financiers are so arrogant in their positions of power that J.P. Morgan once said of the American people, "God would not have created sheep unless he intended them to be shorn."

I'm sure you can recognize the symbolism -- we're the sheep, the wool being shorn is our money, and they've assumed the role of "Banker-Gods". Not kidding folks. This is how they view themselves.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 17, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Daddy Warbucks himself, Mr. James Warburg, who was the primary architect of America's Federal Reserve Act in 1913, admitted to _Nation_ magazine on February 3rd, 1932 (right before his death): "I have studied finance and economic and international trade all my life, and now after these recent events, I have come to the conclusion that I know nothing about any of them."
> 
> With this quote in mind, I'd like to lay out a little more evidence as to why the Federal Reserve is the most damaging institution in America, and how its primary goal is to continue to grow larger in stature by stealing increased amounts of our hard-earned money.
> 
> ...





The people who could make a difference are already paid off.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 17, 2006)

Folks, to truly understand what is causing the ills in our society, we need to begin with the Federal Reserve. Why? Well, because, as Robert Hemphil, former Credit Manager of the Federal Reserve bank in Atlanta said in his testimony before the Senate, "It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon."

The men who founded this nation, many of them quite wealthy, were well aware of how dangerous a centralized bank was. In fact, one of the primary motives behind the American Revolution was our Founding Father's hatred of the Bank of England and how they could "create" notes out of thin air (using the principles of fractional banking); then tax their subjects without giving them proper representation. 

Does this scenario sound familiar to our current situation in America? The biggest difference, though, is that people during that time only paid 5% of their income to the Crown. Today, a gainfully employed homeowner has approximately 48% of their total income taxed in one form or another. President Thomas Jefferson was so outraged by this concept that he said, "The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 17, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> The people who could make a difference are already paid off.



Maybe so Rtwng, because many people who are paid to influence public opinion will naturally dismiss this information by calling it "conspiracy theory". But the logical point they can't argue against is that FACTS aren't theories! We can prove that the Federal Reserve is privately owned. We can prove who the primary shareholders are. And we can prove how detrimental it is to the prosperity of this country.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 17, 2006)

To really get a grasp on how detrimental the Federal Reserve is to our country, we need to look at the basics of banking, usury, and specifically this question: Where does the money come from?

Author Peter Kershaw provides one of the best overviews of this phenomenon. The following is a simple step-by-step look at how our monetary system works.


*1.* To create new currency, the Fed orders "notes" from the Department of Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

*2.* This Bureau prints the money, and subsequently puts it into circulation.

*3.* Meanwhile, this same money is also "loaned" to the U.S. Government, who promises to pay back their debt to the Fed.

*4.* As collateral for the loan, our Congress puts up the land, labor and assets of the American people. (It's very nice of them to pledge OUR property and services, don't you think?)

*5.* Finally, to pay back this loan, a little system was instituted where money is taken directly from our paychecks before we ever have a chance to get our hands on it. It's called taxation.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 17, 2006)

The most glaring question at this point is: who do you think gets the raw end of the deal? The international bankers? Nah - the last time I checked, the Rockefellers, Warburgs, and Rothschilds were still prominent members of their leisure class. 

How about the Federal Reserve? Well, they rake in over a trillion dollars in income a year. Plus they're exempt from paying taxes on this income! Add that to the fact that they have never been completely audited once since their inception in 1913, and you begin to realize that they have themselves a pritty sweet little deal going on. Nope. They don't seem to be hurting any.

What about the President, Congressmen, and high-level administrators at the Treasury and IRS? Do they feel the pinch? Hardly - they're all pulling six-figure salaries (or more), enjoy lavish expense accounts, and they have chauffeurs driving them to work every morning.

So, who does that leave as the scapegoat - the one who bears the brunt of this system? You guessed it - the American taxpayers! Do you think we should look into changing this system? I mean, there's a lot more of US than there is of THEM!


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 17, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Maybe so Rtwng, because many people who are paid to influence public opinion will naturally dismiss this information by calling it "conspiracy theory". But the logical point they can't argue against is that FACTS aren't theories! We can prove that the Federal Reserve is privately owned. We can prove who the primary shareholders are. And we can prove how detrimental it is to the prosperity of this country.



This is all just considered "anti-semitism"


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 17, 2006)

So, to continue on, the next time it is determined that we need more money in circulation, the Fed essentially creates it out of thin air, and we become the indentured servants that have to pay off these debts. What occurs is that a culture of total fiscal irresponsibility results, which, of course, is in the Controllers best interest because it means that we need to borrow even more money from them. How so? Well, let's look at our elected leaders in terms of simple psychology.

When they borrow and spend someone elses money and don't have to pay it back from their own pockets, what motivation do they have to be frugal? Even worse, they get paid very well to spend this money regardless of whether they successfully balance their budgets or not. If this were the business World, every one of them would be fired on the spot. And finally, to add insult to injury, these shysters even get to determine their own salaries, and how much their next pay raise will be! Boy..I bet most people wish that they could to that huh? Does something seem a little unbalanced with this equation?

And while all this nonsense is taking place, what do we all do? We work forty or fifty hours a week, then we get a paycheck that has been raped and pillaged by the very same people that dine on filet mignon and charge it off on their expense accounts. And as you stare in disbelief at your pay stub, can you hear their mocking laughter from Washington D.C., New York City, and other financial centers in Europe?


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 17, 2006)

I hear it.  The cackling of demons.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 18, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> I wonder if there will be wwIII.  Sometimes I think our leaders will just come to us one day and be like, "Well,  we're done.  China has nukes pointed at us, and they have all the dollars, we have to do what they want."
> 
> That will be it.  America done.



Yep.    This is basically how it's going down.

According to popular opinion, the downfall of america is inevitable.




http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=506337&postcount=67


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## dilloduck (Nov 18, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> Yep.    This is basically how it's going down.
> 
> According to popular opinion, the downfall of america is inevitable.
> 
> ...



you mean the "plan going foreward" is kaput already?


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 18, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> you mean the "plan going foreward" is kaput already?



No.  I'm just highlighting the defeatism and closed mindedness of the popular discourse.


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## dilloduck (Nov 18, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> No.  I'm just highlighting the defeatism and closed mindedness of the popular discourse.



I think I would characterize it more as fear.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 18, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I think I would characterize it more as fear.



Fear based on a defeated attitude, and wrong assertions of the inevitability of chinese ascendancy.


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## dilloduck (Nov 18, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> Fear based on a defeated attitude, and wrong assertions of the inevitability of chinese ascendancy.



I guess it's similar to engaging Islamic radicalism-----the old "stirring up a wasp nest" theory. If you confront an enemy you create more of em.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 18, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I guess it's similar to engaging Islamic radicalism-----the old "stirring up a wasp nest" theory. If you confront an enemy you create more of em.




Yeah.  WHy do such hawkish republicans switch to an appeasement strategy with china?


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## dilloduck (Nov 18, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> Yeah.  WHy do such hawkish republicans switch to an appeasement strategy with china?



Money.


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## akiboy (Nov 18, 2006)

*


Kathianne said:



			To my way of thinking we are way into WWIV.
		
Click to expand...

*

I am not so sure. WW3 is still not over.You may call me loony but I predict a nuclear war involving US , China , India , Pakistan , N.K , Iran.

Akshay


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## mattskramer (Nov 19, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Hey mattskramer,
> 
> How do you feel about World War 3. Do you think it has already begun? Do you think it's possible? Do you have any idea of what countries may be involved? And do you think that we will win?
> 
> ...



America is at war against militant Islamic terrorists.  Other nations are participating in the war.  These nations include Great Britain among others.  Therefore, it can be defined as a World War.  It will be a long war and it may never end.  We are not at war against specific nations but against fanatic terrorists that hide behind a religion.  I think that America will win or the war will continue indefinitely.  If America loses it will be taken over by an intolerant totalitarian sects of Islam.


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## akiboy (Nov 19, 2006)

*


mattskramer said:



			America is at war against militant Islamic terrorists.  Other nations are participating in the war.  These nations include Great Britain among others.  Therefore, it can be defined as a World War.  It will be a long war and it may never end.  We are not at war against specific nations but against fanatic terrorists that hide behind a religion.  I think that America will win or the war will continue indefinitely.  If America loses it will be taken over by an intolerant totalitarian sects of Islam.
		
Click to expand...

*

You forget China , Iran and N.K.


Akshay


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 19, 2006)

akiboy said:


> You forget China , Iran and N.K.
> 
> 
> Akshay




They're our friends now.  The Ministry of Truth said so.


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## mattskramer (Nov 19, 2006)

akiboy said:


> You forget China , Iran and N.K.
> 
> 
> Akshay



Yes. China, Iran and N.K. seem to be a bit of a threat but for right now they are doing little more than sword rattling. Since they are nations and not Islamic terrorists, they are easy to identify. Again, I dont believe that people can predict event that are to happen far in future.  That having been said, I think that we should (1.) Get our allies to talk with them. (2.) Put moderate pressure (economic, etc.) on them to end any nuclear arms development that they may have.  (3.) Strengthen our intelligence. (4.) Strengthen our national defense and military just in case.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 19, 2006)

mattskramer said:


> Yes. China, Iran and N.K. seem to be a bit of a threat but for right now they are doing little more than sword rattling. Since they are nations and not Islamic terrorists, they are easy to identify. Again, I dont believe that people can predict event that are to happen far in future.  That having been said, I think that we should (1.) Get our allies to talk with them. (2.) Put moderate pressure (economic, etc.) on them to end any nuclear arms development that they may have.  (3.) Strengthen our intelligence. (4.) Strengthen our national defense and military just in case.



China is our Preffered Nation.  what are you talking about.  They love freedom  and America.


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## akiboy (Nov 20, 2006)

*


rtwngAvngr said:



			China is our Preffered Nation.  what are you talking about.  They love freedom  and America.
		
Click to expand...

*

I am not so sure. China is like a sugar coated  cyanide capsule. Well , i do have a few points to say on this regard but well...I don't want to bore you with another analysis. But , please do remember CHina will want to take over AMerica in the next 10 years or so as the world's largest superpower. As , I have mentioned in many of my previous posts China sees only two nations in its way to becoming a global military and economic powerhouse i.e USA and India.

Akshay


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 20, 2006)

akiboy said:


> I am not so sure. China is like a sugar coated  cyanide capsule. Well , i do have a few points to say on this regard but well...I don't want to bore you with another analysis. But , please do remember CHina will want to take over AMerica in the next 10 years or so as the world's largest superpower. As , I have mentioned in many of my previous posts China sees only two nations in its way to becoming a global military and economic powerhouse i.e USA and India.
> 
> Akshay



IT will only take over america if we remain on the suicide course of empowering them which we're on.  

The bankers have promised to decimate the white people if china goes with them.


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## sitarro (Nov 20, 2006)

mattskramer said:


> \(3.) Strengthen our intelligence.



Are you saying that we need to kick all libs out of the country?


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 20, 2006)

If people can't see it already, the System that THEY created is parasitical to its core. Why? Because the money that the Federal Reserve creates and puts into circulation (plus the money that is needed to pay the interest on this "loan" to us) comes from the same source - them. Now, the money that we earn which is taxed by the government and in turn pays the interest on our "debt" ends up lowering the money supply, thus removing currency from circulation. 

Realizing that the money supply would slowly dwindle away to nothing if this process persisted, the international bankers came up with a solution. They implore our government (and others) to borrow more money from us! That way they receive more interest payments, and the cycle keeps repeating itself. 

The major difference between them and us, though, is how our income is derived. We actually have to go out and WORK for our pay, while they simply skim money off the top before we ever have a chance to get our hands on it. (That's a polite way of saying that they don't actually work for their money; instead, a system has been created where they became fabulously wealthy without ever PRODUCING something that benefits society). 

The practice of usury does not benefit everyday people.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 20, 2006)

In the end, we become so wrapped up in this vicious circle that it creates a troublesome quandary. At this specific date in time, it is now impossible to pay off our national debt because it is higher than all of the money that is currently in circulation! The entire debacle is an exercise in futility. So when you hear another politician on TV telling us how we need to raise taxes in order to pay off the debt, it's an out and out lie. Most of these types of people at the top of the podium are nothing more than illusion-spinners for the New World Order.

The system has already been irrevocably destroyed, and all they're doing now is using smoke and mirrors to keep us hooked like fish on a line.

As it stands now, this problem cannot be fixed within the current parameters that we have erected. And guess what. That's exactly the way the Controllers want it. Why? Well, how would you like someone to be eternally indebted to you paying interest forevermore with no hope of ever paying off the principle? Sounds like easy money to me!


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## dilloduck (Nov 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> In the end, we become so wrapped up in this vicious circle that it creates a troublesome quandary. At this specific date in time, it is now impossible to pay off our national debt because it is higher than all of the money that is currently in circulation! The entire debacle is an exercise in futility. So when you hear another politician on TV telling us how we need to raise taxes in order to pay off the debt, it's an out and out lie. Most of these types of people at the top of the podium are nothing more than illusion-spinners for the New World Order.
> 
> The system has already been irrevocably destroyed, and all they're doing now is using smoke and mirrors to keep us hooked like fish on a line.
> 
> As it stands now, this problem cannot be fixed within the current parameters that we have erected. And guess what. That's exactly the way the Controllers want it. Why? Well, how would you like someone to be eternally indebted to you paying interest forevermore with no hope of ever paying off the principle? Sounds like easy money to me!



I'll rep ya for any suggestions on how to fix everything that you are whining about!


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 20, 2006)

So the question that we have to ask ourselves now is - why do we even need the Federal Reserve? If we - the United States - can print our own money via the Bureau of Engraving, why should we BORROW it from the international bankers? It is the most cockamamie system ever invented, and yet we allow it to continue.

When our country was founded, the Constitution gave only Congress the right to create money. And except for the years following the Civil War, our nation once existed without a federal deficit. Then in 1913 the Federal Reserve Act was passed, and guess what we're stuck with now - a debt that will NEVER be paid off; and interest payments that increase every year. And even scarier is the fact that our personal debt as a people is five-times greater than the national debt.

Think for a moment how much money is being squandered through interest payments. If you buy a house, the first seven years are usually spent doing little more than paying interest without even touching the principle. And that doesn't include your car payments, credit cards, and whatever other debts you may have racked up.

The point is as such: can you see how inproductive these interest payments are to practically everyone except for those collecting the interest? It's wasted money that doesn't create anything other than more debt. Or, as Richard Walbaum wrote in 1992's _The Poverty Trap_: "Our monetary system guarantees that debt must increase regardless of what people, business or government do or do not do, whether or not they balance their budgets."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 20, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I'll rep ya for any suggestions on how to fix everything that you are whining about!



Deal. The suggestions are not too far away now. That is the last part of this section for myself.

Although don't worry about the rep points. I've never really been too big of a fan of our little "point-system" we have going here anyway. No offense of course.


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## dilloduck (Nov 20, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Deal. The suggestions are not too far away now. That is the last part of this section for myself.



LORDY MERCY !!!  MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED  !!


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 20, 2006)

To further describe just how manipulative the banking system is, author Peter Kershaw uses the analogy of a man who wants to sell his motorcycle. His friend agrees to buy the bike, but doesn't want his wife to know about it. So he tells the owner to keep it in his garage, and he'll come by every Saturday to ride it. The owner concurs; then figures, "Hey, I have this bike for six other days of the week when it isn't being used. Why don't I "sell" it to someone else under the same agreement?" In no time he "sells" the bike to seven more people under the same shady arrangement even though there is only ONE valid owner of the bike.

This, I'm afraid to say, is the basis of fractional banking. It's a very enlightening insight into the psychology of these World financiers, for what prevents them from creating even more "loans" out of thin air? Nothing does because the US Fractional Banking Law allows them to loan out $9 for every $1 on reserve! 

Think about how easy this system is to manipulate. And the only way a problem could arise is if all 9 people went to withdraw their money from the bank at the same time. But the bankers have even made laws to prevent that scenario from occurring.


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 21, 2006)

Yes.  NW.  That is fractional reserve lending.  It's also bad.  Fractional Reserve lending combined with fiat currency makes it extra extra bad.


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## dilloduck (Nov 21, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> Yes.  NW.  That is fractional reserve lending.  It's also bad.  Fractional Reserve lending combined with fiat currency makes it extra extra bad.



I think we're getting close to hearing what we're all supposed do to fix it !


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## rtwngAvngr (Nov 21, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I think we're getting close to hearing what we're all supposed do to fix it !



Like I said.  Just give up.


Raising awareness is the first step.


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## dilloduck (Nov 21, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> Like I said.  Just give up.
> 
> 
> Raising awareness is the first step.



I guess knowing why we're giving up makes it easier !


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 21, 2006)

rtwngAvngr said:


> Yes.  NW.  That is fractional reserve lending.  It's also bad.  Fractional Reserve lending combined with fiat currency makes it extra extra bad.



Good point Rtwng.

And 97% of all bank transactions are nothing more than simple ledger entries where no money trades hands. Think about it. When you pay your mortgage (principle + interest), do you lay down $700 cash, or do you write a check? The same applies to your monthly car payment, credit cards, or things like loans at Sears for a washer/dryer. 

All that is happening is that numbers are being juggled from one column to another, yet international bankers have become the richest men on Earth by capitalizing on this practice. Only 3% of our financial transactions consist of using actual coin and paper!

And what, you may wonder, is the result of this practice? Well, as debts rise, so do our interest payments. To cover these increased expenses, taxes are raised. In the business World, higher interest payments equal higher business expenses, and thus higher prices.

If you look back at the last ninety years, have prices, our national debt, taxes, and interest payments gone up or down? The ultimate result is that the everyday person suffers because taxes and inflation continually keep eating into their REAL net worth, not allowing them to get further ahead. And that is precisely why it is so hard for people to ascend from one particular social or financial class. It's because the system is designed to keep them where they are! And it prevents movement from one class to another.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 21, 2006)

The framework for social enslavement will continue unabated until we abolish the Federal Reserve and default our national debt. Or, as Peter Kershaw tells us, "What we operate on today is not the "intellect" of confidence based upon tangible wealth and substance, but the "religion" of "conviction" based upon blind faith. Without religious conviction, the system collapses! And what is that religion? - A pagan occultic money system."

Larry Burkett, author of _The Coming Economic Earthquake_ takes it one step further by saying, "The actual deficits are almost twice as large as those admitted by the government. So why hasn't our economy collapsed? Because the American people still have confidence in the System."


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 21, 2006)

Luckily, a few courageous Americans over the years have tried to alter the status quo. One of them was congressman Louis T. McFadden, who became chairmen of the House Banking & Currency Committee. On June 10, 1932 in a speech before the House, he described centralized banking as such. "They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies; domestic swindlers, rich and predatory money lenders that prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers. The Federal Reserve banks are the agents of the foreign central banks. The truth is the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the Government of the United States." (75 Congressional Record 12595-12603)

Six months earlier, on January 13, 1992, Congressman McFadden actually charged the Federal Reserve with treason and tried to have it put out of business. Regrettably, our Congressmen then weren't any braver than they are today, and only five supported him. The House G.O.P. majority leader even mused, "Louis T. McFadden is now politically dead."

Sure enough, in his next reelection bid, his opponent received mountains of donation money, while the press slandered McFadden unmercifully and accused him of being "crazy". (It's comforting to know that their tactics haven't changed over the years)

McFadden naturally lost the election, and was the victim of three subsequent assassination attempts within the next few years. His detractors were ultimately successful when McFadden reached his demise in 1936 after being poisoned to death. 

James Traficante, an outspoken critic of the Federal Reserve and the IRS, better watch what he eats in prison.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 21, 2006)

And if Louis T. McFadden's murder isn't enough to piss you guys off to the point where you will stand up and demand change, how about these little facts:

3 decades later, on June 4, 1963, President John F. Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110 where he requested the Treasury to start printing "United States Notes". This money was the same as that controlled by the Federal Reserve except that it was created DEBT FREE! 

Five months later.....President Kennedy was assassinated.

Still not pissed yet?

What about the simple fact that our Founding Fathers led a revolution to keep us from being controlled by the Bank of England, while one of the historically-hidden motives for the Civil War was Abraham Lincoln's adamant refusal to let the Rothschild banking family take control of our monetary system.

And guess what. 'Ol Honest Abe wound-up with a bullet in his head.

What do you guys think? Another "coincidence"?

Or have we finally uncovered the keys to global domination?


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 26, 2006)

Alright so now I would like to get into some of the possible solutions that we as a People can help put into action to change the corruption of our Federal Reserve system and to set our Country back onto the right track. As it stands now, if nothing is done about this problem, I promise people that things are only going to continue to get worse. Much much worse.

Ok so, currently all we do is exchange FED money (interest attached) for real U.S. money. 

What we SHOULD be doing is trading money (interest-free) dollar for dollar as President Kennedy tried to do. *We should not be required to pay interest on our own currency*. According to Benjamin Franklin, this was one of the primary reasons we fought the Revolutionary War. 


*POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:*


*SOLUTION 1:* 

The U.S. Government can buy back the FED at any time for $450 million (per Congressional record). The U.S. Treasury could then collect all the profit on our money instead of the 300 original shareholders of the FED. The $4 trillion of U.S. debt could be exchanged dollar for dollar with U.S. non-interest bearing currency when the debt becomes due. 

There would be no inflation because there would be no additional currency in circulation. Personal income tax could be cut if we bought back the FED and therefore, the economy would expand. According to the Constitution, Congress is to control the creation of money, keeping the amount of inflation or deflation in check.

We as the American people should be pushing for our Government to buy back the FED and start printing our money the way it should be printed with the powers of our money creation restored to the American people and our Congress. NOT PRIVATE BANKS!


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 26, 2006)

*SOLUTION 2:*

By law (check the Congressional record), we (As a People) can buy back the FED for the original investment of the FED's 300 shareholders, which is $450 million (Reference 1, P. 227, Reference 17, P. 36). If each taxpayer paid $25, we could buy back the FED and all the profit would flow into the U.S. Treasury.

 Today the FED, through foreign banks, owns much of our debt and therefore controls us. The FED will cease to exist as taxpayers become informed and tell other taxpayers. The news media and Congress will have no choice but to meet the demands of grass roots America.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 26, 2006)

*SOLUTION 3:*

Currently, fewer and fewer Americans are being convicted for refusal to pay income taxes. In IRS jury trials, the jury, by law, must decide if the law is just. If taxpayers do not believe the law is just, the jury may declare the accused innocent. Judges are legally bound to inform juries of their right to determine the fairness of a law. 

Judges often do not disclose this information so they can control the court outcome. Luckily, more and more citizens are becoming informed. If one juror feels the law is unfair, they can find the defendant innocent. In Utah, the IRS quit prosecuting taxpayers because jurors verdict is not guilty. 

If we tell enough people this information, then the right people will be able to sit in the next jury and if enough people did this then we would eventually force a change or for the removal of the law all-together.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 26, 2006)

I will post more Solutions/Suggestions next time I am on but for now, it is important that people realize that the situation is NOT hopeless, and that there are things that we can do together to change the system.

All we have to do is pick one and go with it. And that goes for each individual. If we don't do anything, than nothing is going to change. And if nothing changes, then by all means we are screwed. Royally.


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## dilloduck (Nov 26, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> I will post more Solutions/Suggestions next time I am on but for now, it is important that people realize that the situation is NOT hopeless, and that there are things that we can do together to change the system.
> 
> All we have to do is pick one and go with it. And that goes for each individual. If we don't do anything, than nothing is going to change. And if nothing changes, then by all means we are screwed. Royally.




What happens when the FEDs get a whiff of our plan---is the jig up? I mean the dudes are obviously aware of this and have counter measures in place as we speak !:shocked:


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> What happens when the FEDs get a whiff of our plan---is the jig up? I mean the dudes are obviously aware of this and have counter measures in place as we speak !:shocked:



Well if they try and change the laws and the loopholes that are in place at the moment which would allow us to fix the problem then I would assume that it would only enrage Americans even more to the point where we would call them out and shine the light on their intentions. I would assume so anyways. Or better yet, I would HOPE so.

I mean I have faith in my Brothers and Sisters. We are not stupid. It's just that we've been screwed over for so long now that many of us don't know where the hell we're at anymore. Or where to begin for that matter.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

*SOLUTION 4:*

If we can finally get someone in the office of the Presidency of the United States who actually gave a shit about the people and his country, someone who would probably be the complete opposite of Curious George who's in there at the moment, then seeing is how the government has this big deficit, we could try and get that kind of President to handle it as Lincoln and Kennedy did, where he/she could print money and circulate it into the economy, but this time interest-free. 

Of course, we would have to keep an eye on this one, and protect him/her up the ass, because if not, he'll/she'll just end up dead like the last two Presidents who were brave enough to attempt such a thing.


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## dilloduck (Nov 27, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Well if they try and change the laws and the loopholes that are in place at the moment which would allow us to fix the problem then I would assume that it would only enrage Americans even more to the point where we would call them out and shine the light on their intentions. I would assume so anyways. Or better yet, I would HOPE so.
> 
> I mean I have faith in my Brothers and Sisters. We are not stupid. It's just that we've been screwed over for so long now that many of us don't know where the hell we're at anymore. Or where to begin for that matter.



Well, I applaud you for your efforts. I'm gonna really on my faith in other things to get people out of the mess they are in though because I honestly don't see people having what it takes to pull it together.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Well, I applaud you for your efforts. I'm gonna really on my faith in other things to get people out of the mess they are in though because I honestly don't see people having what it takes to pull it together.



Yes Dillo but the simple fact is that FEAR is the underlying basis for the People not moving themselves into action.

What is it that people have to fear? Is it death? People, if this is what many of you fear, than you absolutely MUST overcome this fear if you ever expect to advance forward in your lifetime.

With a fear of death, a person has almost nothing. I truly believe this. 

What was it that Jesus said? Something along the likes of there being no greater deed than he/she who lays down their life for another. Be it anyway! It doesn't matter! Yes, joining the military and dying in battle is ONE way to do this, but it's only ONE way.

There are many ways of sacrificing yourself for another. And not all of them involve death. But all of them are equal in terms of value.

Of course, it helps if you believe in the Afterlife, but even for those who don't, for those who believe that this is it, and then you turn to dust, why in the World, what fear could possibly keep you from standing up then, and making this one chance count, for putting yourself out there, for standing up for what's right? Why not make a difference then? If you believe that this is it? It's not about being remembered people, it's about making a difference for the better. 

And I'm not just talking in terms of raising your children and making sure they are safe (which every parent should be doing), I am talking about going above and beyond that, I'm talking about stepping outside of the box and REALLY putting yourself out there, so that Humankind itself can benefit from your actions, so that you can go out with a bang when you take your last breath, because you and I both know that death will come to us all, and it could come tomorrow!

WHAT DO WE HAVE TO FEAR? STAND UP! TAKE ACTION! HELP MAKE THIS WORLD A BETTER PLACE!

Or, as Sylvia Brown said it,

_"With the rare exception of those who only choose to spend one lifetime here, our Spirits make the round-trip from the Other Side to Earth over and over again in the course of eternity, at our own insistence, in pursuit of our greatest Spiritual potential and service to God. Our lives at Home are busy, stimulating, euphoric, surrounded by exquisite beauty, friends, Soul Mates, Angels, and "Messiahs", thriving in God's awesome, palpable presence. It takes courage and enormous commitment for us to decide we need the tough challenges only life on Earth can provide, and to leave a paradise of unconditional love for this place where lasting love of any kind is a scarce commodity. On The Other Side, we understand that eternity eliminates the concept of time altogether, and when we leave Home we know we'll be back again in the blink of an eye. But here, where we measure our lives by linear days, weeks, months, and years, that "blink of an eye" seems like an eternity itself or, in our darkest nights, that awful word *never*."_

People. Death is a transition either way. It should not be feared. It should be overcome.

Damn now you guys got me quoting Braveheart. lol.

"Every PERSON dies, but not every person really lives."

Whats it gonna be folks? The easy way out? Or the way that makes the difference?

The choice is up to YOU. YOU hold the keys to a better World here on Earth. How are YOU going to choose to use them? Or will it be that your chance ends up dying right beside you?


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## dilloduck (Nov 27, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Yes Dillo but the simple fact is that FEAR is the underlying basis for the People not moving themselves into action.
> 
> What is it that people have to fear? Is it death? People, if this is what many of you fear, than you absolutely MUST overcome this fear if you ever expect to advance forward in your lifetime.
> 
> ...



Fear arises from ignorance. You've attempted to rally folks into action by educating them. I hope it works but it appears as though Americans are moved more by emotional persuasion.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Fear arises from ignorance. You've attempted to rally folks into action by educating them. I hope it works but it appears as though Americans are moved more by emotional persuasion.



Then so be it. One way or another, we will face our greatest FEARS. The question is, and when we do, will we smile at them or cowar from them in agony?


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## dilloduck (Nov 27, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Then so be it. One way or another, we will face our greatest FEARS. The question is, and when we do, will we smile at them or cowar from them in agony?



I always wonder if it even matters.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

*SOLUTION 5:*

Ultimately, the battle plan is to inform all Americans and demand change in the media and Congress. True Americans should run for office and throw out the politicians who allow this fraud to continue. Congress may refuse to deal with this issue. That's why each person needs to go to their local county/state government with the proper paperwork and ask them to abolish the FED. With the proper documents, they are legally obligated to do it.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

*AN OVERVIEW OF 3 OF THE WAYS TO ABOLISH THE FED AND ISSUE MONEY PER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8:* 

*** Buy back the FED and have the U.S. Government collect all profits. 

*** Abolish the FED by printing real U.S. dollars as President Kennedy attempted (Executive Order 11.110, 1963). 

*** Request your county/state to use their Constitutional powers to abolish the FED. Nearly half the states are attempting or considering this action. Congress has had 80 years to follow the Constitution, and has refused to abolish the illegal FED.


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## dilloduck (Nov 27, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> *SOLUTION 5:*
> 
> Ultimately, the battle plan is to inform all Americans and demand change in the media and Congress. True Americans should run for office and throw out the politicians who allow this fraud to continue. Congress may refuse to deal with this issue. That's why each person needs to go to their local county/state government with the proper paperwork and ask them to abolish the FED. With the proper documents, they are legally obligated to do it.



I hate to be a wet blanket but wouldn't the FED launch a fear campaign like you've never seen ? A people without courage is worthless.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I hate to be a wet blanket but wouldn't the FED launch a fear campaign like you've never seen ? A people without courage is worthless.



Well Dillo if we go by your last theory,

Does it really matter either way? =)


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

The truth is that people have pushed the following states to pass or introduce legislation calling for an end to the FED: Arizona, Washington, Arkansas, Idaho, Oregon, Indiana, and Texas. 

America is still in need of your signatures on petitions, even if you live in these states. Many other states are considering such action due to some petitions. These states and a few honest Congresspeople are powerless until all Americans become informed and demand change. Once we demand change, the media will have to report the whole truth and not just push their own agenda. There needs to be more challenges in the media to expose the facts on prime time talk shows or news programs.


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## dilloduck (Nov 27, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Well Dillo if we go by your last theory,
> 
> Does it really matter either way? =)



W'ell never know but I'd rather go out fighting than groveling.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

Ask small business owners in your community to tell other business owners and spread brochures and petitions through the local Chamber of Commerce. CPAs should be interested in saving their clients taxes.

Contact your library for the names and addresses of your local and federal Congresspeople. MAIL THEM AN ENVELOPE WITHOUT YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ATTACHED. 

In the envelope you can say something related to Abolishing the FED. Also, if you would like, why not include some symbolism and enclose one teabag (Boston Tea Party)? Ask your friends to do the same (give them the addresses). Politicians are aware of the "Teabag Protest." If you don't mail it in, they're going to believe that we're not organized or we just don't care. IF YOU DON'T DO IT NO ONE ELSE MAY EITHER! Think of it that way.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 27, 2006)

Folks, there have been and will continue to be Congresspeople who want to make this change, but who can't do it without the support of the people.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

*EVEN MORE WAYS TO ABOLISH THE FED:* 


*** Inform all Americans of this information and collect signatures on petitions. 

*** Demand that Congress and the media support "We the People's" rights to uphold the Constitution and abolish the illegal FED. 

*** Write to your local newspaper, show them this information and ask them to keep freedom of the press alive, support the Constitution and abolish the FED.  

*** Write to CNN and other media. Tell them you want to see discussions about the Federal Reserve on their programs. 

*** Ask your State/County Representatives to use their Constitutional powers to enforce your rights under the Constitution to have the FED abolished. Write to them for detailed paperwork to be given to your local government. 

*** Call in on TV and radio talk shows and discuss why the FED should be abolished. 

*** Support businesses who distribute petitions to remove and or destroy the Federal Reserve. If they don't, please ask them to. 

*** Ask candidates if they plan to introduce legislation to abolish the FED and uphold the Constitution which they are obligated to defend. Make candidates take a stand! Have the politician sign a contract with "We the People" enacting legislation to abolish the FED by a certain date or the politician must resign from office. The Democratic Congress and President promised the people "no FED" before the election. Thirteen months later, they passed the FED. 

*** Display a bumper sticker related to abolishing the FED and inform people. 

*** If 5,000 people distribute 2-3 brochures daily, we can inform half a million Americans monthly. Roughly 10% of these half a million people will make copies and inform others. Before we know it, we can quickly inform 70 million adult Americans and eventually more. Public opinion will soon be on our side. Once 10% of the population know, the other 90% will follow. 

*** Pray and ask God to return us to "One nation under God." 

It is recommendation that you research, support all organizations that are trying to stop this fraud, and help in any way that you can think of.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

First, we must uphold the Constitution. Please call the Hotline (217-854-7504) weekly for new information. When a state considers a Constitutional Convention, concerned Americans call the Hotline and it gives the names and telephone numbers of the legislators involved. It tells exactly what to say, and to whom. The Hotline helps us to fight and win! 

Secondly, we must change the opinions of the masses with information. Once 10% of the population agrees to abolish the FED, the rest will most likely eventually follow. 

It is obvious the media (radio and newspapers) have lied about the FED and to prevent the education of the people with the truth. This will not stop us - we will persist! Decide for yourself if you want to win America back. If 10,000 patriotic Americans each distribute 1,000 brochures, 10 million Americans will become informed. It would be almost impossible to stop people from talking about abolishing the FED if that many Americans were informed. 

As mentioned before, another way you can participate is to put a bumper sticker on your car. Over 1,000 people every month will see that bumper sticker about abolishing the FED. 

If you think this goal is impossible, remember this; only 3% of Americans supported the Revolutionary War, and we won that war. We can win this war too, but only if we work together.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

*A FINAL SOLUTION (THE LAST RESORT):*


This solution involves the following:

First, we declare in no uncertain terms that the United States is defaulting on that portion of the national debt owed to anyone other than the American people (i.e. the international bankers).

We simply say, "We're not paying the interest (or the principal) on the money we owe you!" 

And when you think about it, what can the bankers do? If you default on your auto loan mortgage, what happens? The bank repossesses your car or house. But if we default on our national debt, what are the Controllers going to do? Repossess our country? Not a chance.

The second move America needs to take is to revoke the right to create money from outside entities and return it to those to whom it constitutionally belongs: the Congress.

Now I'm no big fan of Congress, but they would be a hell of alot better than the group that controls our money now. And through Congress, the American people would gain our control back over our own currency.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

The most obvious benefit of these decisions is that rather than borrowing money from the international bankers, then paying exorbitant amounts of money in interest, we can coin our own money without interest.

You see, usury is one of the main keys to World domination. Whenever a person or country is indebted to another entity, an element of control enters the picture. The more they owe, the less control they have over their affairs. And as it stands now, since we will realistically probably never pay off our national debt, how can we realistically imagine a day when we'll have control over our own destiny?

Not only are we currently enslaved through taxation to the government, our government is enslaved to the Controllers via the Federal Reserve. The only solution: destroy the Federal Reserve!


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 29, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> *A FINAL SOLUTION (THE LAST RESORT):*
> 
> 
> This solution involves the following:
> ...



Ok You got me---I'm going with the bumper sticker---its probably one I can put on my truck without it getting keyed or window smashed.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Ok You got me---I'm going with the bumper sticker---its probably one I can put on my truck with it getting keyed or window smashed.



You mean without it getting keyed or window smashed right?

Since I would be willing to bet money that very few people are going to get angry over the fact that you are advertising for the removal of an organization that has been screwing our country over for decades.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

After we return the right to create money back to Congress, we can also eliminate the Federal Income Tax. Don't you think it's strange that the Federal Reserve Act and the Federal Income Tax were enacted in the same exact year -- 1913? They go hand-in-hand. But prior to that fateful year, there was no Federal Income Tax. Instead we raised money to pay our bills primarily through tariffs.

Why not do the same thing today? Take a moment and try to coneive of all the products that we import. If we slapped a 5% tariff on each and every one of them, we could eliminate the Federal Income Tax without touching one social program.

It's so evident. Of all these products that we import, how many can we make ourselves? Nearly all of them. Not only would our own domestic companies benefit from import tariffs (other countries do it; why shouldn't we?), but this transfer of production to the U.S. would strengthen our nation as a whole by reducing our dependence on foreign entities.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

It's obvious that Globalists like George Bush, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, and Christopher Dodd won't take the leadership role; nor will most of the current Congressmen who are bought and sold by the political contributions to which they are so beholden. So as I mentioned before, someone OF, BY and FOR the PEOPLE needs to run for the Presidency and to rally every one of us together and to return the reins of power back to US! 

Because people, if we don't have the resolve that is going to be needed to accomplish this, then I guarantee you all that the luxuries and the rights that we now enjoy will be squashed.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

There is one variable which enters the picture that everyone should know about. When the United States defaults on its national debt, the "Controllers" aren't going to lie down and take it without a fight. I mean we're talking about billions of dollars here that they bilk from us each year. This is major league money, and not something that they'll brush off lightly.

If they can't repossess our country as banks would with a house or with a car, what else can they do? Well, when a country gets irrevocably out of line, then it leaves the Controllers with only one other recourse -- WAR!

Here are some of the key secrets that aren't taught to us in history classes. First of all, wars are not primarily started by the masses. The Bolshevik Revolution is a perfect example. Instead, wars are usually orchestrated by the Conspirators to either maintain a balance of power or to penalize those nations that don't fall in line with their edicts. 

So, if the United States defaults on its national debt and abolishes the Federal Reserve, then there is a very good chance that shortly thereafter the Controllers will declare war on our country via certain nations that are still under their vast umbrella. And which nations will these most likely be? Well, in my personal opinion, we're talking China, and a few others.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

Alright folks, I'm sure the first thing you may be thinking now is: do we really want to enter World War 3? Personally, I despise war as much as anyone. But in this case, what are our alternatives if nothing else works? To stay enslaved to the New World Order's Federal Reserve in a situation where they continue to control our entire political system? I'd rather fight than cringe, and lash out rather than wallow or hide.

Right now, our political framework is completely unacceptable. Our leaders in many cases are illegally "selected" to implement decisions made not in Washington DC, but in places like New York City and Europe. These policies are made at the upper echelon of the control pyramid, ultimately designed to eliminate our national sovereignty and to incorporate us into their much heralded New World Order.

In this vein, we need to ask ourselves how we feel about paying taxes to a World Government (to be used for projects in China or Zimbabwe). Does this scenario appeal to you? How about our soldiers fighting under the jurisdiction of a United Nations Army that is commandeered by generals in other parts of the World? How about a World Court located in places like Saudi Arabia where foreigners who hate our guts can convict Americans of crimes? These people would also hand down rulings detrimental to our country, and we'd have to adhere to them.


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

The main point to remember is this: the Controllers act in ways that benefit their own global interests, not our day-to-day lives. The ONLY way to save this nation is by completely and irrevocably removing them from our political system. If we fail to do so, the United States of America as we currently know it will no longer exist.

This is why we need to destroy the Federal Reserve and default on our national debt. There are no other alternatives. These bloodsuckers have placed a stranglehold around our financial necks and are slowly choking us to death.

By allowing the Globalist international bankers to keep shaking us down, we give them the very thing that they crave the most -- power and control. In essence, then, indebtedness equals subservience.

We need to ask ourselves this one crucial question: Do we want to remain enslaved to the Controllers, or are we willing to fight for our freedoms like our forefathers did?


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## NuclearWinter (Nov 29, 2006)

So there it is folks - centralized banking - one of the primary tenets of Karl Marx's _Communist Manifest_. I hope you all enjoyed this section and I hope that some of you will come away from this with more of a sense of where you are at and what you need to do next in order for things to change.

We cannot move forward as a People to let America regain its greatness until we eliminate the Controller's iron grip on our financial purse strings. This may be a bitter pill for many people to swallow, but as Samuel Adams said, "It is natural for man to deal in the illusions of hope; but as for me, I want to know the worst, the truth, and prepare for it."

The Federal Reserve is one of if not the most corrupt, debilitating, anti-American institutions in this country, and that's the truth. The only question that remains is: are we willing to face it, and then do something about it?


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 1, 2006)

A distinguishing trait of a member of the World Order, although it may not be admitted, is that he or she does not believe in anything BUT the New World Order. 

Another distinguishing trait is his or her absolute contempt for anyone who actually believes in the tenets of Communism, Zionism, Christianity, or any national, religious, or fraternal group, although the Order has members in controlling positions in ALL these groups. 

If you are a sincere Christian, Zionist, or Muslim, the Order regards you as a moron unworthy of respect. You can and will be used, but you will never be respected.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 1, 2006)

The Controllers have one main thing going for them that helps keeps them all in power. 

They have been successful at dividing the masses of the people into opposing camps on political, social, racial, economic and religious issues. They arm and finance those groups and then they encourage them to fight with eachother. As they usually do.


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## dilloduck (Dec 1, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> The Controllers have one main thing going for them that helps keeps them all in power.
> 
> They have been successful at dividing the masses of the people into opposing camps on political, social, racial, economic and religious issues. They arm and finance those groups and then they encourage them to fight with eachother. As they usually do.



Amen brother---and they're doing a great job at it !


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 1, 2006)

*Michael A. Hoffman II (Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare - 1989):*

"The most amazing thing about the American people is that they are constantly defending their worst betrayers. Who then is modern man? He is a mind-bombed patsy who gets his marching orders from 'twilight language' key words sprinkled throughout 'his' news and current events. Even as he dances to the tune of the elite managers of human behavior, he scoffs with great derision at the idea of the existence and operation of a technology of mass mind control emanating from the media and government. Modern man is much too smart to believe anything as superstitious as that!"


*Michael A. Hoffman II (Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare - 1989):*

"Flattery: The First Principle of Mind Control - "Why then does he revere them? Because they flatter him. This is the first secret of mass mind control and can be observed as the foundation stone of virtually every false religion, party, cult, philosophy, system and training. How can modern man free himself when he is told that he is already a demi-god, that the problem lies only in finding a pure enough economic or political system worthy of his high-minded brilliance?"


*Michael A. Hoffman II (Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare - 1989):*

"But if we overthrew them (The Controllers) tomorrow, we would have to write our own scripts. We would have to heal ourselves. We would have to admit the colossal waste and loss of destruction of the past years which our laziness and folly have made possible. We would have to experience the pain of being alive and responsible. WE would have to start acting like men and women instead of as slaves and weaklings."


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 1, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> *Michael A. Hoffman II (Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare - 1989):*
> 
> "The most amazing thing about the American people is that they are constantly defending their worst betrayers. Who then is modern man? He is a mind-bombed patsy who gets his marching orders from 'twilight language' key words sprinkled throughout 'his' news and current events. Even as he dances to the tune of the elite managers of human behavior, he scoffs with great derision at the idea of the existence and operation of a technology of mass mind control emanating from the media and government. Modern man is much too smart to believe anything as superstitious as that!"
> 
> ...



Dude---we are so far gone that we can't even pull together a "WE" to do anything.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 1, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Dude---we are so far gone that we can't even pull together a "WE" to do anything.



Not necessarily true Dillo.

Where there is hope there is a way.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 5, 2006)

Now is a good time to talk about one of the many evil organizations out there today which is known as the Carlyle Group.

You see, awhile back, James Baker publicly offered advice to the Bush Administration on how they should proceed with their war on iraq. What he and every newscaster or commentator failed to mention was that Baker is now employed by the highly-influential Carlyle Group, which is the eleventh largest defense contractor in the United States. In essence, then, we have a man trying to influence public policy while being privately employed by a company that has a vested interest in activating America's War Machine.

If you're not familiar with them, the Carlyle group has become a powerhouse in affecting the direction in which our foreign policy takes, especially in regard to war. They accomplish this by hiring former government officials, and then investing in private companies that are subject to government change (i.e. the military and telecommunications).


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 5, 2006)

Who, you may ask, does the Carlyle Group employ to secure their government contracts? Well, check-out this list for starters:


*Frank Carlucci -*    Department of Health, Education and Welfare
                         Deputy Director, CIA - 1978-1981
                         Deputy Secretary of Defense - 1981-1982
                         National Security Director - 1987-1989


*George Bush -*      CIA Director - 1976-1977
                         Vice President of the United States - 1981-1989
                         President of the United States - 1989-1993


*James Baker -*      Chief of Staff - 1981-1985
                         Secretary of the Treasury - 1985-1989
                         Secretary of State - 1989-1993


*Dick Darman -*      Former White House Budget Chief

*William Kennard -*  Former Head, FCC

*Arthur Levitt -*      Former Head, SEC

*John Major -*        Former Prime Minister of Britian

*Fidel Ramos -*       Former Philippine President

*Afsaneh Beschloss -* Treasurer & Chief Investment Officer of the World Bank

*Anand Panyarachum -* Former President of Thailand

*Karl Otto Pohl -*    Former President of Bundesbank

*Louis Vuitton -*     French Aerobus Company

*Park Tae Joon -*    Former Prime Minister of South Korea

*Alwaleed Sin Talal bin Adbulaziz Alsaud -* Saudi Arabian Prince

*George Soros -* New World Order/Bilderberg luminary & Int'l financier.

*Fred Malek -* George Bush Sr's campaign manager.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 5, 2006)

The Carlyle Group also employs the former chairman of BMW and Nestle, and has interviewed former President Clinton cabinet members (to insure that they have both sides of the aisle covered), plus, they once hired Colin Powell and AOL Time-Warner Chairman Steve Case to speak at a meeting at Washington D.C.'s Monarch House. 

Plus, if we look at James Baker again, we'll find that he's on the board of Azerbaijan International Oil Company, in which two U.S. oil companies hold 40% of the shares. And what are these two companies? The first is Amoco, who has on their payroll none other than Zbigniew Brzezinski (Trilateral Commission founder, National Security Advisor for the Carter Administration, Globalist Supreme, and David Rockefeller's puppet on a string). The second is Pennzoil, who has had on their payroll Brent Scowcroft, former National Security Advisor under George Bush, Sr.

But the man that really brought it all together is Frank Carlucci, who holds directorships on such companies as General Dynamics, Westinghouse, the Rand Corporation, and Ashland Oil, plus he sits on the board of directors of twelve other companies. Carlucci was also the college classmate of someone very closely related to our current administration's previous War Machine - Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld!


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## Gunny (Dec 5, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Alright folks, I'm sure the first thing you may be thinking now is: do we really want to enter World War 3?



No, I'm actually wondering when you actually figure out that no gives a crap about your pages and pages of :blah2:


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## MtnBiker (Dec 5, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> No, I'm actually wondering when you actually figure out that no gives a crap about your pages and pages of :blah2:



Yup, that horse was dead about 60 pages back.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 5, 2006)

What relevance does Frank Carlucci's and Donald Rumsfeld's association have, you may wonder? Great importance, for in February, 2001, Carlucci and Vice President Dick Cheney met with Donald Rumsfeld when the Carlyle Group had several billion-dollar defense projects under consideration. (If you haven't guessed yet, the Carlyle Group fared quite well when all was said and done).

Do you still think these ties don't matter? Philip Agee, in his book "On the Run" details all of Carlucci's CIA connections, many of whom he hired (along with his Pentagon cronies) when he joined Carlyle in 1989. And all of us know what kind of influence the CIA has, don't we?

It's all about power and access, folks, as Oliver Burkeman and Julian Burger pointed out in _The Guardian_ on October 31, 2001. "Carlyle has become the thread which indirectly links American military policy in Afghanistan to the personal financial fortunes of it's celebrity employees, not the least the current President (George Bush Jr's) father.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 5, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> No, I'm actually wondering when you actually figure out that no gives a crap about your pages and pages of :blah2:



Keep on Talkin Gunn.

The information speaks for itself.

Nothing that you, or anyone else can say, will be able to cover up the sick and nefarious plans of the Carlyle Group or any other similar organizations for that matter.


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## Gunny (Dec 5, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Keep on Talkin Gunn.
> 
> The information speaks for itself.
> 
> Nothing that you, or anyone else can say, will be able to cover up the sick and nefarious plans of the Carlyle Group or any other similar organizations for that matter.



Dude, does all of this come to you through the receptors in your tinfoil hat?  Or do you just have a Oiuja board?

I had a friend when I was a kid who used to talk to the Lone Ranger on his.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 5, 2006)

So is the picture becoming clearer folks? We're getting to the bottom of America's War Machine here. The Carlyle Group is set to make huge amounts of money from our upcoming military conflicts and weapons expenditures. In other words, when I talk about the War Machine, these folks are at the crux of it. They're the war profiteers that keep it's wheels greased!

lol. And people thought good ol George Bush Sr. was just sitting back and enjoying his retirement. Yeah right folks, he is still in position to direct our countries policies. Along with all his friends who are members of the Carlyle group.


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## MtnBiker (Dec 5, 2006)

Maybe it is an Oiuja board made of foil??


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## MtnBiker (Dec 5, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> I had a friend when I was a kid who used to talk to the Lone Ranger on his.



Did the Ranger talk back? 

What about Tonto, would he join in every once in a while?


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 5, 2006)

I guess it's joke time instead of talk about the facts which are F'cking our country time? Hey guys?

Like I said. It doesn't matter. Anyone who would rather tell jokes than discuss these problems is not someone that I am interested in discussing these kind of issues with anyway.

It's the people who give a rats ass about our country and it's future that I am trying to reach here. Not those who thinks it's comedy central.


----------



## MtnBiker (Dec 5, 2006)

"Um, me no communicate. Me not like the foil skin hat."


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## Gunny (Dec 5, 2006)

MtnBiker said:


> Did the Ranger talk back?
> 
> What about Tonto, would he join in every once in a while?



Well, I have it on "good" authority he did.  Not sure about Tonto.  I think my friend had his own little tinfoil hat he wore only when we weren't around.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 5, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> I guess it's joke time instead of talk about the facts which are F'cking our country time? Hey guys?
> 
> Like I said. It doesn't matter. Anyone who would rather tell jokes than discuss these problems is not someone that I am interested in discussing these kind of issues with anyway.
> 
> It's the people who give a rats ass about our country and it's future that I am trying to reach here. Not those who thinks it's comedy central.



Problem is, you give a shit about a country that exists only between your ears.  You're not _the_ conspiracy theorist ... just _another_.

We discuss the real problem that beset our country all the time.  They aren't 60+ page, one-sided, conspiratorial rants.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 5, 2006)

November 27, 2006 
#2006-137 
The Carlyle Group Establishes Middle East Investment Operation; Industry Veteran Walid Musallam to Lead Team 

Washington, DC  Global private equity firm The Carlyle Group today announced it has established a team to conduct private equity investments in the Middle East and North Africa region (MENA). The team is headed by Managing Director Walid Musallam, former Chief Executive Officer of the Abu Dhabi Investment Company. Mr. Musallam begins his duties immediately.

David M. Rubenstein, Carlyle Co-founder and Managing Director, said, Walid brings significant experience and stature to this new position. His knowledge of the MENA region and investment experience will quickly establish Carlyle as a serious and credible presence in this important, growing region of the world.

Mr. Musallam said, I am excited about this unique opportunity to lead Carlyles investment activities in a new and fascinating region. Carlyles global network and industry expertise are great differentiators that will benefit growing Middle Eastern and North African companies.

Carlyles MENA team will invest primarily in healthy, growing companies. From offices in Cairo, Dubai and Istanbul, the team will leverage Carlyles expertise in various sectors, including energy, financial services, healthcare, industrial, infrastructure, technology and transportation.

As Chief Executive Officer of the Abu Dhabi Investment Company, Mr. Musallam was responsible for the general management and strategy implementation of all business lines of a multi-billion financial institution involved in private equity, regional equity and debt capital markets, corporate finance and brokerage. From 2004 to 2006, Mr. Musallam was the Chief Executive Officer of Middle East Capital Group, a regional merchant and banking institution headquartered in Beirut, Lebanon.

From 1996 to 2004, Mr. Musallam was the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Washington, DC-based Infrastructure Finance Group LLC, which advised corporate clients on financings, acquisitions and strategic alliances in emerging markets and advised governments on restructuring and privatizing of state-owned facilities. He previously served as Senior Investment Officer at the International Finance Corporation in Washington, DC and Vice President at Lehman Brothers in New York and as a construction manager on several construction projects in the Middle East.

Mr. Musallam earned his M.B.A. from Columbia University, M.S. from Stanford University and B.S. from the University of Pennsylvania.

http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/news/l5-news3658.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm
Not all that far fetched


----------



## Avatar4321 (Dec 5, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> I guess it's joke time instead of talk about the facts which are F'cking our country time? Hey guys?
> 
> Like I said. It doesn't matter. Anyone who would rather tell jokes than discuss these problems is not someone that I am interested in discussing these kind of issues with anyway.
> 
> It's the people who give a rats ass about our country and it's future that I am trying to reach here. Not those who thinks it's comedy central.



If you dont have time for a joke, regardless of what you are doing, then you are taking yourself way too seriously. So pull the pole from your butt and relax alittle man.


----------



## 007 (Dec 6, 2006)

*What in the flying fuck does this moronic thread keep getting resurected for?

Jeeezzzzuzzzz fucking K-riste.*


----------



## mattskramer (Dec 6, 2006)

Pale Rider said:


> *What in the flying fuck does this moronic thread keep getting resurected for?
> 
> Jeeezzzzuzzzz fucking K-riste.*



Good grief.  This is only a silly little political bulletin board.  It means nothing but a harmless little diversion in the grand scheme of things.  Please, for your own health and well-being, calm down.   :chillpill


----------



## 007 (Dec 6, 2006)

mattskramer said:


> Good grief.  This is only a silly little political bulletin board.  It means nothing but a harmless little diversion in the grand scheme of things.  Please, for your own health and well-being, calm down.   :chillpill



Go away, you sick ass, perverted, daughter fucking, degenerate.


----------



## mattskramer (Dec 7, 2006)

Pale Rider said:


> Go away, you sick ass, perverted, daughter fucking, degenerate.



That was boring.  Use those big red letters again.  Come up with something even more imaginative.  :sleepy1:


----------



## 007 (Dec 7, 2006)

mattskramer said:


> That was boring.  Use those big red letters again.  Come up with something even more imaginative.  :sleepy1:



Did you fuck your daughter before you wrote that?


----------



## mattskramer (Dec 8, 2006)

Pale Rider said:


> Did you fuck your daughter before you wrote that?



God, you are so illogical.  I dont have a daughter.  If I did have a daughter, I would not fuck her. Grow up.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 9, 2006)

mattskramer said:


> God, you are so illogical.  I dont have a daughter.  If I did have a daughter, I would not fuck her. Grow up.



How can you be so sure?  After all, YOU are the one who has no problem with incest.


----------



## mattskramer (Dec 9, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> How can you be so sure?  After all, YOU are the one who has no problem with incest.



I made a vow to my wife and I keep my word.  I think that prostitution should be allowed.  At the same time, I am risk-averse so I dont hire prostitutes.  I think that people should be allowed to smoke but I understand that smoking is an unhealthy practice.  Therefore I dont smoke.  Just because I think that people should be free to do things does not mean that I want to do those things.  I cant explain in any more simply.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 9, 2006)

mattskramer said:


> I made a vow to my wife and I keep my word.  I think that prostitution should be allowed.  At the same time, I am risk-averse so I dont hire prostitutes.  I think that people should be allowed to smoke but I understand that smoking is an unhealthy practice.  Therefore I dont smoke.  Just because I think that people should be free to do things does not mean that I want to do those things.  I cant explain in any more simply.




The fact that you are morally-bankrupt enough to even advocate incest means you don't rule it out.  It isn't any simpler than THAT.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> Problem is, you give a shit about a country that exists only between your ears.  You're not _the_ conspiracy theorist ... just _another_.
> 
> We discuss the real problem that beset our country all the time.  They aren't 60+ page, one-sided, conspiratorial rants.



Once again I might point out Gunn that what I am posting about relating to the Carlyle Group ARE NOT THEORIES. THEY ARE FACTS.

Therefore, your entire arguement about me being a "Conspiracy Theorist" as related to this subject as well as the ones I have already covered here and practicly all of the other subjects I intend to post about is completely FALSE.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I never claimed to be. And I don't like posting theories.

Most ALL of what I post relating to the NWO is factual evidence. Aside from the prophecies from the previous section which are neither factual nor theory, as they don't fit into either category. Prophecy has a category all of it's own.

So why not quit calling me a "conspiracy theorist" and hoping that you will catch some ground off of that statement? Indeed, I post about conspiracies being run by our Government and abroad, but in no way shape or form do I not try my hardest to follow them up with the facts. Thats facts. NOT theories.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2006)

*Dan K. Thomasson, former editor of the Scripps Howard News Service, summed it up best in March, 2001:*

"Nothing in recent history seems to approach the success this group has had in the wholesale conversion of former high government rank to gigantic profits."


*Peter Eisner, Managing Director of the Center for Public Integrity, adds:*

"It should be a deep cause for concern that a closely held company like Carlyle can simultaneously have directors and advisors that are doing business and making money and also advising the President of the United States."


*The Washington Business Journal simply says:*

"The Carlyle Group seems to play by a different set of rules."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2006)

But who is the Carlyle Group? Well, their office is located only a few blocks from the White House, and it was founded by three men.


*1.* David Rubinstein - aide in the Carter Administration.

*2.* Bill Conway - Chief Financial Officer at MCI

*3.* Dan D' Aniello - financial executive at Marriott.


They named their group "Carlyle" after a New York hotel favored by one of their first investors, the Mellon family. The Carlyle Group now has an ownership stake in 164 different companies, they have 535 investors, they operate in 55 different countries, and they have $13.5 billion in capital. International financier George Soros invested $100 million in them, while the California Public Employees Retirement System dumped $305 million into their laps. They also recently purchased the KorAm Bank, thus accelerating their entry into the highly lucrative Asian markets.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2006)

But how did the Carlyle Group become so successful so quickly? I'll let the Carlyle Group answer that question for themselves:

_"We invest in niche opportunities created in industries heavily affected by changes in government policies."_

Stated differently, the Carlyle Group buys what it knows best - companies regulated by the government. In fact, 2/3 of the Carlyle Group's business is either in the defense or telecommunications industries....those affected by changes in government spending or policy!

And how do they affect these policies? It all revolves around ACCESS! That's the key. Basically, they operate within what is called the "Iron Triangle" - industry, government, and the military. 

A spokesman for Oklahoma Representative J. C. Watts understood this connection when he said, "Carlyle's strength was within the Department of Defense because they have staff types that work behind the scenes, in the dark, that know everything about the Army and Capitol Hill."


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2006)

Charles Lewis, ex-Director at the Center for Public Integrity, added credence to this arguement when he said, "Carlyle is as deeply wired into the current administration as they can possibly be."

On May 5, 2001, the _New York Times_ described the Carlyle Group as such: "It owns so many companies that it is now in effect one of the nation's biggest defense contractors and a force in global communications. It's blue-chip investors include major banks and insurance companies, billion dollar pension funds and wealthy investors."

Hmm, it looks like they have a firm grip on both the War Machine and the media....convenient, don't you think?


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2006)

After reading about how deeply established the Carlyle Group is as "Insiders", do you think that the Carlyle Group has America's best interest at heart, or do they have their own which entails capitalizing on war? 

An excellent example can be found in the recent $470 million contract that "United Defense", a Carlyle subsidary, received. And what did they get for it? To develop the CRUSADER, a faulty, antiquated, horrendous product that was described by Eric Miller of "The Project on Government Oversight" as follows:

"The Crusader has been the GAO's (Government Accounting Office) poster child for bad weapons development."

The Crusader Project was so maligned that the government was set to drop it completely. But lo and behold, what happened? War was on the horizon, Carlyle pulled a few strings, and welluh - a $470 million contract was thrown Carlyle's way for the Crusader. Funny how things happen, huh?


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## Gunny (Dec 12, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Once again I might point out Gunn that what I am posting about relating to the Carlyle Group ARE NOT THEORIES. THEY ARE FACTS.
> 
> Therefore, your entire arguement about me being a "Conspiracy Theorist" as related to this subject as well as the ones I have already covered here and practicly all of the other subjects I intend to post about is completely FALSE.
> 
> ...



You flatter yourself.  There's no attempt to catch you at anything.  You clearly represent the unhinged lunatic that you are without my having to reinforce it.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2006)

If all that wasn't bad enough folks, the Carlyle Group is also the financial advisor to a certain government. Who? Saudi Arabia.

In fact, they make nearly $50 million a year training the Saudi Arabian National Guard -- troops that are sworn to protect the Saudi royal family! 

Now, if all hell breaks loose in the Middle East, and considering that Saudi Arabia is tentative about supporting our efforts against Iraq, who do you think that the Saudi Arabian soldiers that are trained and financed by the Carlyle Group will kill? Their own kind (Arabs)? Or the invading American Soldiers which are known to many Arabs as the "white American devils"?

The Carlyle Group has entered into very treacherous waters, all for the sake of making money off of warfare. Regardless of what they say, these men in the Carlyle Group epitomize a form of evil via their actions.


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## Avatar4321 (Dec 12, 2006)

do you ever participate in any other threads or are you just using this thread as a blog?


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## -Kt Atis- (Dec 13, 2006)

Why dose your thread read "From World War 3 To The Age of Peace (2006-2012)?" As I can recall nothing of war world-like proportions happen this year.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

-Kt Atis- said:


> Why dose your thread read "From World War 3 To The Age of Peace (2006-2012)?" As I can recall nothing of war world-like proportions happen this year.



Kt, 2006 was the year that set the beginning of World War 3. You just can't see it yet. Wait until 2009.

Unfortunately, we can't travel into the future. However, due to the foresight and insight of people who can SEE into the future, I can tell you almost without a doubt, that by 2009 you will see World War 3 at it's most explosive stages ever.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

Avatar4321 said:


> do you ever participate in any other threads or are you just using this thread as a blog?



Well, believe it or not Avatar, I have yet to find another thread on this board that I would be interested in joining in on.

Perhaps a thread related to the rise of the Red Chinese?

Perhaps a thread related to how the Carlyle Group along with the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg group, and the Trilateral Commission have been systematically trying to bring down our country?

Perhaps a thread related to how we are on the brink of World War 3?

Perhaps a thread related to a number of things that are going on right now that the media is basically remaining silent about?

Trust me my friend, if I see a thread on this board that I'm interested in joining in on, I will do it. But as of now, I see mostly the stereotypical "Republican" vs "Democrat" vs "Independent" bullshit. Stuff that doesn't solve a dimes worth of problems.

No offense.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

*Here are some other VERY interesting facts about the Carlyle Group that I recommend none of you skip over.....*


*1.* In the early 1990's, the Carlyle Group decided to give a struggling businessman a job. Can you guess which businessman that was? It was our current President, George W. Bush, and they didn't just start this man at the bottom, no no, they put this man on the board of one of their subsidiaries - CarterAir.

The Carlyle group kept George Bush employed with their organization until he was "selected" for his job as Governor of Texas.


*2.* After our current President (George W. Bush) became Governor of Texas, he appointed a group which controlled the money invested by the Texas Teacher's Pension Fund to invest $100 million dollars into the Carlyle Group (Don't forget that George Bush Sr. has been employed by the Carlyle Group as well.)


*3.* In December of 2001, guess who met with the Bin Laden family (A family that was being investigated by the FBI because of their connection to Osama Bin Laden)? Can you guess who it was? It was George Bush Sr.! And what, might I ask, was George Bush Sr. doing meeting for business with the Bin Laden family after spending the night at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? So soon after the horrendous attacks of 9/11? 

Kinda makes a person wonder.....


*4.* Osama Bin Laden's family, who had invested more than $2,000,000 into the Carlyle Group, mysteriously pulled out all of their investment money in October of 2001. Only a few weeks after 9/11.

 (Hmmm....could it be because they wanted to cover their tracks in case of fingers being pointed at them relating to the September 11 terrorist attacks?) 


So there we have it folks, George Bush Sr (Who was once our President), doing business with the Bin Laden family for over 30 years. And is/has been a member of the Carlyle Group. George W. Bush, our current President, who has been re-elected again to wreak havoc in our country, has also been employed by the Carlyle Group, and has invested money in them as well. Then we have the Bin Laden Family, who's family member just so happens to be one of the most well known terrorists in the World, who has invested millions into the Carlyle Group as well.

So....let me get this straight. The Bush Family, the Bin-Laden family, business partners, and the Carlyle Group. Coincidence? I think not. I mean for crying out loud....what else does this group need to do to prove how tied in it is with our countries policies? And how corrupt it is as well?


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

At this point in time, it's important for the American people to realize that we are losing entirely the ability to have a say so in determining who our next President will be. 

How can I make such a drastic statement? Well, economists generally agree that if 55&#37; or more of a given market is controlled by four or fewer companies, then an oligopoly exists.

An oligopoly is defined as "control by a few competing sellers of the amount and price of a given product or service to a large number of buyers. Thus, in regard to the "selection" (as opposed to "election) of our President, there are now only about three primary organizations which determine not only who is chosen for that office, but also it's Cabinet and policies. 

And what are the three organizations I am speaking of? They are the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergs. 

So in this sense, the United States has gone from being a democracy to that of an oligopoly. Ane we've become the bamboozled "buyers" who are getting suckered by the illusion provided to us by the "sellers".


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

At this point in time, it's important for the American people to realize that they are losing entirely their ability to have a say so in determining who our next President will be. 

How can I make such a drastic statement? Well, economists generally agree that if 55% or more of a given market is controlled by four or fewer companies, then an oligopoly exists.

An oligopoly is defined as "control by a few competing sellers of the amount and price of a given product or service to a large number of buyers. Thus, in regard to the "selection" (as opposed to "election) of our President, there are now only about three primary organizations which determine not only who is chosen for that office, but also it's Cabinet and policies. 

And what are the three organizations I am speaking of? They are the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergs. 

So in this sense, the United States has gone from being a democracy to that of an oligopoly. And we've become the bamboozled "buyers" who are getting suckered by the illusion provided to us by the "sellers".


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

In this next section I plan on laying the groundwork for how the above three organizations have controlled the Executive Office from the Nixon and Carter administrations all the way up to our current one. The most disturbing aspect of this phenomenon is the virtual lock that these groups have on our highest office.

Lets start with the Council on Foreign Relations.

The CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) was formed in 1921, and one of its early influential members, Colonel Edward Mandell House, Chief Adviser to President Wilson, exerted an extremely heavy hand on three policy areas that America is still suffering from today. These are:


*1.* The establishment of a Federal Income Tax.

*2.* The establishment of the Federal Reserve System.

*3.* Our enrty into the League of Nations (a precursor to the United Nations).


Two of the main financial contributors to the CFR were the Carnegie and Rockefeller Foundations. The CFR became such an important force in American politics that ever since the early 1940's virtually every candidate for President has been a member.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

The Council on Foreign Relation's primary goals are to:


*1.* Establish a single government with global power.

*2.* Eliminate national boundaries. 

*3.* Increase the United Nation's domain.



*To support this point, Rear Admiral Chester Ward, former Judge Advocate of the Navy from 1956-1960, commented:* 

"The purpose of promoting disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all-powerful and one-world government is the only objective revealed to about 95&#37; of the 1,551 members in 1975."


*The Wall Street Journal stated in its Notable and Quotable section on April 10, 1991:* 

"In the postwar years, the Council on Foreign Relations has continued to represent an invaluable way for many Washingtons to tap the enormously important New York business and intellectual community."


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 13, 2006)

So what does all this mean? The answer is very important because the "supposed" elected leaders that we place in Washington, DC don't really make the decisions that affect our lives. Rather, the _real_ shots are called in places like New York City, and even Europe. Thus, the direction that our government takes isn't truly determined in the halls of Congress or in the Oval Office, but instead in New York City by international bankers and the heads of multinational businesses.

This, I'm sorry to say, is the key to power in our country.

The trend to filling an Administration's cabinet with CFR members is startling, as the numbers below reveal:


*President Nixon's cabinet* - 115 CFR members.

*President Carter's cabinet* - 284 CFR members.

*President Reagan's cabinet* - 257 CFR members.

*President Bush's cabinet* - 382 CFR members.

*President Clinton's cabinet* - 17 of his top 19 Cabinet members were either CFR or Trilateral Commission members.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

Now I would like to go over the second evil group in this section known as the Bilderberg Group.

In May of 1954 came the first official meeting of the next organisation called the Bilderberg Group, which was named after the Bilderberg Hotel in Oosterbeek, the Netherlands, where that opening meeting took place.

Bil or Bel was also the Sun God of the Phoenicians. The word "Bilderberg" translates as "Bel of the rock" or "Bel of the mountain".

The Bilderberg Group was chaired from 1954 to 1976 by Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, who was a former Nazi SS officer and German spy working for the NW7 intelligence department operating within the unspeakable chemical giant, I.G. Farben, which ran the Auchwitz Concentration Camp which is responsible for the mass murder of Jews.

Prince Bernhard (The German spy), who married into the Dutch Royal Family, just as William of Orange had done, is a blood relative and friend of Britain's Prince Philip.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

The Bilderberg Group (just like the CFR and the Trilateral Commission), has amongst it's members the top people in global, banking, business, media, military, intelligence agencies, education, and politics. 

A look at some of the people who attended the first Bilderberg Meeting is a perfect example of the sort of people we are talking about. The chairman was Prince Bernhard, the husband of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands, who has herself been a regular Bilderberg Attendee. Queen Beatrix, has been another Bilderberg Promoter.

Other Bilderberg chairmen have included sir Alex Douglas Hume, one of the Elite Scottish bloodlines and a former British Prime Minister, and another British aristocratic bloodline, Lord Carrington, who became chairman in 1991.

Prince Bernhard was head-hunted to be the chairman by Lord Victor Rothschild, another spy, and a conman of colossal proportion. He was also one of the major manipulators of the 20th century.

Other attendees of the first Bilderberg Meeting included none other than David Rockefeller (A jackass and evil man of the highest multitude), Dean Rusk - who was head of the Rockefeller Foundation and was Secretary of State under President John F. Kennedy, Joseph E. Johnson, US Secretary for the Bilderbergers; Denis Healey, the British Labour Party Minister of Defense from 1964-1970, and Chancellor of the Exchequer from 1974-1979; as well as Lord Boothbym who worked with Winston Churchill on the unification of Europe, later known as the European Union.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

It was obvious from the first that the success of the meetings would depend primarily on the level of the participants. Leading figures from many fields - industry, labor, education, government, etc. - are invited, who, through their special knowledge or experience, can help to further Bilderberg objectives. Objectives which in reality have appeared to be purely dark and sinister.

Over the years, Bilderberg participants have come from the NATO countries, Switzerland, Sweden, Austria, and Finland, and have included prominent individuals such as Dean Rusk, Christian A. Herter, Maurice Faure, Franz-Josef Strauss, Amitore Fanfani, Panayotis Pipinelis, Reginald Maudling, the late Hugh Gaitskell, Omer Becu, Guy Mollet, the late Michael Ross, Herman Abs, C. L. Sulzberger, Joseph Harsch, and T. M. Terkelsen. Individuals with international responsibilities have also participated, among them being Gen. Alfred Gruenther, Lord Ismay, Eugene Black, Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer, Paul-Henry Spaak, and the late Per Jacobsson.

Bilderberg meetings are held at irregular intervals, but have taken place once or twice a year since 1954.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

The Bilderberg meetings are highly secret, and are held at random times each year, and rarely at the same location, for security reasons. The responsibility for security for these meetings is in the hands of the government of the country in which the meetings are held. They must supply military security, secret service, national and local police, and private security personnel to protect the privacy and safety of these very powerful international Elite members who are not required to conform to regulations that private citizens are subject-to, such as customs searches, visa requirements, or public notice of their meetings. When they meet, no "outsiders" are allowed in or near the building. They bring their own cooks, waiters, telephone operators, housekeepers, and bodyguards.

The Bilderberg membership is made up of Kings, Queens, Princes, Chancellors, Prime Ministers, Presidents, Ambassadors, Secretaries of State, Wall Street investors, international bankers, news media executives, and wealthy industrialist. Their meetings are by "invitation only", and no "outsiders" in the news media are allowed, except by special invitation.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

However, just because the news media is not allowed to be present at Bilderberg meetings, does not mean that people who ARE PART of the media haven't attended Bilderberg meetings and been members of the Bilderberg Group themselves.

For example, all of these people related to the media have attended a Bilderberg meeting before:

 Peter Jennings (BB, Anchor & Senior Editor of ABC News, World News Tonight), Joseph C. Harsch (BB, CFR, former Commentator for NBC, Inc.), Bill D. Moyers (BB, Executive Director of Public Affairs TV, Inc., former Director of the CFR), William F. Buckley, Jr. (BB, CFR, Editor-in-Chief of National Review, and host of PBS&#8217;s Firing Line), Gerald Piel (BB, CFR, former Chairman of Scientific America, Inc.), Henry Anatole Grunwald (BB, CFR, former Editor-in-Chief of Time, Inc.), Mortimer B. Zuckerman (BB, CFR, Chairman & Editor-in-Chief of the US News, and World Report, New York Daily News, and Atlantic Monthly), Robert L. Bartley (BB, CFR, TC, Vice President of the Wall Street Journal), Peter Robert Kann (BB, CFR, Chairman & CEO of Dow Jones & Company, and husband of Karen E. House, CFR), William Kristol (BB, Editor & Publisher of the new The Weekly Standard magazine), Donald (Don) C. Cook (BB, CFR, former European Diplomatic Correspondent for the Los Angeles Times), Robert Leroy Bartley (BB, CFR, TC, Vice President of the Wall Street Journal), Albert J. Wohlstetter (BB, CFR, writer for the Wall Street Journal), Thomas L. Friedman (BB, CFR, TC, Columnist for the New York Times), and the "Queen" of the Elite - (deceased) Katharine Graham (BB, CFR, TC, Owner, and Chairwoman of the Executive Committee of the Washington Post). The 1998 meeting included Leslie Stahl, of CBS&#8217; 60 Minutes. 

Even though the media moguls attend these secret meetings, they do not file reports about the Elite Bilderberg activities during their meetings.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

Don't people find it very strange and uncomfortable that American and European financiers, manufacturers, media moguls and politicians are meeting at remote luxury resorts every year, and that they allow only "loyal staff" to remain on the job, as well as the fact that they empty the establishment of all others, employ platoons of police, military and their own private security in order to seal themselves off? 

The Bilderberg Group has tried to keep it's meetings secret for 45 years. Thats not a good thing.

Bilderbergers are greatly disturbed over the growing public knowledge of their control of the world and of resistance to their schemes for a global government as nationalism grows around the world.

Bilderberg was instrumental in tearing down Jean-Marie Le Pen, who founded France's National Front. The French-first party has stunned the Establishment by regularly capturing 15 percent of the vote in that nation.

Expecting recession, Bilderberg feared Le Pen and "nationalists" from other countries would interfere with their goals as they fight to protect their domestic industries from exploitation.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

The Bilderberg Group shares common goals with the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Proof of such goals would include their "Globalization summit" called for by Peter D. Sutherland, head of Goldman Sachs International. 

Bilderberg is an extremely influential lobbying group. The organisers have a hidden agenda, which is namely the accumulation of wealth and power into their own hands whilst explaining to the participants that globalisation is for the good of all.

The ideology put forward at the Bilderberg conferences is that what's good for banking and big business is good for the mere mortals of the world. Silently banished are the critical voices, those that might point out that debt is spiralling out of control, that wealth is being sucked away from ordinary people and into the hands of the faceless corporate institutions, that millions are dying as a direct result of the global heavyweight Rockefeller/Rothschild economic strategies.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

When looking at one of the (partially reliable) participant lists it should be remembered that quite a number of participants are invited in an attempt to get them on-board the globalisation project. These are carefully selected people of influence, who have been openly critical of globalisation. Examples are Jonathan Porritt (Bilderberg 1999) and Will Hutton (Bilderberg 1997) but there are many others. Most of these kinds of participants are happy to speak about the conference afterwards, and may even be refreshingly critical. 

The Bilderberg organisers are accepted by those 'in the know' as the prophets of Capitalism. 

Will Hutton, deputy Editor of The Observer newspaper in London and left-leaning Economist, described private clubs of the elite as masterminded by 'The High Priests of Globalisation'. 

The ecclesiastical allusion is not accidental. The Bilderberg high-priests are a force against good, out to wipe morality from the earth. For the organisers Bilderberg Conferences are an annual ideological assault by the world's most power-hungry people. Not content with owning unimaginable amounts of money and property they want to use that wealth to acquire even more power for themselves. Power is the most dangerous and addictive drugs known to man. Will the craving be satisfied when a handful of men own and control everything on earth?


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

The perverse objective of the Bilderberg Steering Group is to dress totalitarian ideology up to appear rational and push it out, unattributable, for mass consumption under Chatham House rules. Meanwhile, outside the Bilder-bubble, 'god-is-money' globalisation is the new religion. The greedy are given a pat on the back as they plunder both the earth and do their best to destroy the human spirit.

 The Bilderberg Group has been said to be involved in the repossession of homes that men and women have worked a lifetime for. 

Also, because of the Bilderberg Group, there could be renewed calls for the UN to be able to directly tax all people. In the past, Bilderberg has proposed a UN levy on International travel and on the oil at the wellhead, so that all who travel or drive will be taxed.

One can't help but wonder, when the Bilderberg organisers, Rothschild, Rockefeller, Kissinger and the rest have completed their project of enclosing all global goods and services into their own hands, enclosing too the media to stop people freely discussing what they are up to. What then?? What happens when the men who would be gods turn out to be the global devils?


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 17, 2006)

Well I'll be damned.....

It looks like CNN actually had the balls to go and do a mini-story on the Bilderberg Group.

Not that I would call it excellent journalism at all, in fact, they barely did any digging. Actually, I would say that they appear to know very little at all about the group....even less so than the common researcher.

However, it is a good thing that CNN ran this story, because it shows that these kinds of issues are actually starting to make it to national television.

Click on the link below to watch the CNN story on the Bilderbergs for yourself:

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=WJ0VkaMRHYs&mode=related&search=[/ame]


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 30, 2006)

Alright and lastly for this section I would like to go over the group known as the Trilateral Commission.

This group, the Trilateral Commission, was formed in 1973 by Zbigniew Brzezinsky and David Rockefeller, and it is at the top of the "financial brotherhood". 

Regrettably, the Executive Branch is below them.

Antony C. Sutton and Patrick M. Wood both provide an excellent description of this group in _Trilaterals Over Washington_:


*1.* The Trilateral Commission was formed primarily by David Rockefeller.

*2.* Its members are chosen by David Rockefeller and four assistants.

*3.* They're financed by David Rockefeller and the Kettering and Ford foundations.


State the authors: "Without being accused of hastiness or bias, one can reasonably conclude that David Rockefeller is the power behind the Trilateral Commission and that he presumably stands to gain the most from its activities. 

"The essential point to hold in mind...is that a global multinational corporation (Chase Manhattan owned by David Rockefeller) is in control of a power vehicle that controls the United States government. In 1976 the American voter thought they had elected Jimmy Carter. In fact, they elected Chase Manhattan."


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 30, 2006)

In mind-April, 2002, the Trilateral Commission met for four days at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Washington, D.C. As in their custom, this highly influential group of World leaders from North America, Japan, and Europe plotted ways to promote their Globalist agenda. Some of the items on their list were:


*** America's upcoming invasion of Iraq, and how to lure Europe and other Asian nations into supporting the War Machine.

*** The need to further create a multinational financial octopus, with the United Nations as the head of a one-World government.

*** A decision to keep pumping money, computers, and technology into China, bolstering them as the next premier global superpower.

*** A decision to funnel more American aid to "under-exploited" foreign countries, leading the way for the implementation of a World Tax.

*** Prevention of the Israeli/Palestinian war from turning into a complete powder keg, thus endangering our Middle Eastern oil supplies.


Boy. What a list hey? And since then, almost all of these things have pritty much come true. And these bastards have been doing them right under all of our noses!


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 30, 2006)

For all those who are curious about who was at the corrupt Trilateral Commission meeting in 2002, here's the list of those who attended:


*** David Rockefeller - Overlord, Chase Manhattan Bank

*** Paul Volcker - Former Chairman, Federal Reserve

*** Charles Robb - Former Senator

*** Robert McNamara - Former Secretary of Defense

*** Kenneth Lay - Former CEO, Enron

*** Henry Kissinger - Former Secretary of State

*** Winston Lord - Former China Ambassador

*** David Gergen - Editor, _U.S. News and World Report_

*** Zbigniew Brzezinski - Former Head of National Security, and Trilateral Commission co-founder

*** Madeline Albright - Former Secretary of State

*** John Deutch - Former Director, CIA

*** Richard Holbrook - Former U.S. Ambassador to U.N.

*** Harold Brown - Former Secretary of Defense

*** Strobe Talbott - Former Under Secretary of State

*** Tom Foley - Former Speaker of the House


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 30, 2006)

In addition to those in attendance at the 2002 Trilateral Commission meeting was also the head of Goldman-Sachs International, one of the ten firms that hold the most stock in America's Federal Reserve System.

Also, there were other representatives from:

*** Funji Xerox

*** Germany (the U.S. Ambassador)

*** Georgetown (professor)

*** _Washington Post_ (columnist)

*** Archer-Daniels Midland (chair)

*** Club of Rome (president)

*** International Monetary Fund (managing director)

*** Canada - UK (former High Commissioner)

*** British Parliament (member)

*** AFL-CIO (NITE branch - president emeritus)

*** Federal Reserve (president)

*** Levi-Strauss (chair)

*** Rothschild & Sons (director)

*** Citicorp, which owns 22% of NYFR stock (vice chair)

*** Institution of Global Economics, Seoul (CEO)

*** Mexican government (Former President, and Minister of Trade)

*** Irish contingency of government (former Senator)

*** Xerox (former CEO)


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## Annie (Dec 30, 2006)




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## NuclearWinter (Dec 30, 2006)

Some of the speakers and panelists at the 2002 Trilateral Commission meeting were:

*** Dick Cheney - Vice President of the United States

*** Alan Greenspan - Chairman of the Federal Reserve

*** Colin Powell - Former Secretary of State

*** Donald Rumsfeld - Former Secretary of Defense


And in all, 251 of the most influential businessmen, statesmen, politicians, financiers, and acedemics met in Washington, D.C., and how much did you hear about it on the local or national media? I'll bet nothing!

Every year when the World's greatest actors get together at the Academy Awards, is the media present? Yes. 

How about when America's two best football teams meet at the SuperBowl? Is the media present? Of course.

TV's Emmy awards - the media is there.

Grammy's - the media is there.

The media even reports on hog-calling contests at the State Fair in Arkansas.

But when some of the most powerful men and women congregate to determine the course of future history, did any of the following cover their meeting?

ABC - NO
NBC - NO
CBS - NO
_New York Times_ - NO
_Newsweek_ - NO
_Time Magazine_ - NO

People, what the hell is going on here in our country?


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 30, 2006)

Holly Sklar, in the introductory chapter to a book about the Trilateral Commission titled _Trilateralism: Managing Dependence and Democracy -- An overview_, stated that the chief goal of this commission is, "The people, governments, and economies of all nations must serve the needs of the multinational banks and corporations."

How is this information settling with you thus far? Well, don't worry -- it gets scarier.

Senator Barry Goldwater, in his book No Apologies, called the Trilateral Commission, "David Rockefeller's newest international cabal."

A few quotes from Zbigniew Brzezinski are appropriate to convey where these people are coming from. These are culled from _Between Two Ages_, which is one of the Trilateral Commission's most important books:

*Zbigniew Brzezinski:*

_"Marxism is sumultaneously a victory of the external, active man over the inner, passive man and a victory of reason over belief....Marxism , disseminated on the popular level in the form of Communism represented a major advance in man's ability to conceptualize his relationship to the World...Marxism supplied the bext available insight into contemporary reality."_

*Zig's views on how he sees the World are further represented in The Technetronic Era, where he states that:* 

_"The nation state as a fundamental unit of man's organized life has ceased to be the principle creative force. International banks and international corporations are acting and planning in terms that are far in advance of political concepts of the nation-state."_


Hmmm...if I didn't know better...I'd say Zig the Mad Dog actually LIKED Marxism and Communism! And to think; he was David Rockefeller's right-hand man, and also a key member of Jimmy Carter's cabinet. Something smells fishy to me.

How much more obvious could it be? The "Controllers" want to diminish; then virtually eliminate national sovereignty and the Constitution, replacing it with a new framework determined by THEM -- unelected global financial leaders! Is this what you want?


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## dilloduck (Dec 30, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Holly Sklar, in the introductory chapter to a book about the Trilateral Commission titled _Trilateralism: Managing Dependence and Democracy -- An overview_, stated that the chief goal of this commission is, "The people, governments, and economies of all nations must serve the needs of the multinational banks and corporations."
> 
> How is this information settling with you thus far? Well, don't worry -- it gets scarier.
> 
> ...




Not really but there doesn't seem much anyone can do about it except call you a conspiracy nut. I don't see anyone who has really tried to counter your asssertions.


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## Gunny (Dec 30, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Not really but there doesn't seem much anyone can do about it except call you a conspiracy nut. I don't see anyone who has really tried to counter your asssertions.



Come on, dillo .... this guy isn't engaging in debating anything.  He's posted a bunch of shit to rival Tolstoy's War and Peace, that no real person with a real life is going to bother reading, much less go to the trouble of trying to disprove concocted bullshit.

Anyone can make any assertion they choose then demand others disprove it.  A dishonest game if ever there was one.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 30, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> Come on, dillo .... this guy isn't engaging in debating anything.  He's posted a bunch of shit to rival Tolstoy's War and Peace, that no real person with a real life is going to bother reading, much less go to the trouble of trying to disprove concocted bullshit.
> 
> Anyone can make any assertion they choose then demand others disprove it.  A dishonest game if ever there was one.



I think he has layed out a lot of information that no one has even attempted to confront. Tell me what you think of the trilateral commission or the Council on foreign relations.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 30, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I think he has layed out a lot of information that no one has even attempted to confront. Tell me what you think of the trilateral commission or the Council on foreign relations.



I quit trying to read it or keep up when he flood posted the first 4-5 pages, much less confront it.

Trilateral Commission:  NWO by any other name.

Concil on Foreign relations is a think tank supposedly to educate us "mere mortals" on world affairs and US foreign policy.  

The Invisible Man wanted to rule the world too.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 31, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> I quit trying to read it or keep up when he flood posted the first 4-5 pages, much less confront it.
> 
> Trilateral Commission:  NWO by any other name.
> 
> ...



I know what they are---I just want your take on them--they got some mighty big players to be blown off as inconsequential.


----------



## Emmett (Dec 31, 2006)

Just because there are a few big names involved does not necessarily mean they really acheive anything.

The way to convincing laymen to become interested in World affairs begins with simplicity. If you want to convince an ol' hillbilly boy from the north Georgia mtns to vote you don't tell him a bunch of shit he can't understand. You have to speak to him on his level. These folks DON"T do that.

From what I can tell they are out to create One World Order, of course I like Gunny went to sleep on page two. I might have missed something.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 31, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I know what they are---I just want your take on them--they got some mighty big players to be blown off as inconsequential.



Not as long as they are private organizations with private citizens as members.  That makes them no more or less a threat than any other special interest group.

I don't discount their existence, I just don't overplay their importance.  Guess I'm just not paranoid enough.  And dude, I sleep with a gun within reach.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 31, 2006)

Emmett said:


> Just because there are a few big names involved does not necessarily mean they really acheive anything.
> 
> The way to convincing laymen to become interested in World affairs begins with simplicity. If you want to convince an ol' hillbilly boy from the north Georgia mtns to vote you don't tell him a bunch of shit he can't understand. You have to speak to him on his level. These folks DON"T do that.
> 
> From what I can tell they are out to create One World Order, of course I like Gunny went to sleep on page two. I might have missed something.



I gave up on educating people on politcs--the people don't much matter anymore anyway. Just because the Trilateral Commission doesn't get a lot of media coverage doesn't mean that they haven't been involved in a lot either. They certainly have easy access to those who currently HAVE power.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 31, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I gave up on educating people on politcs--the people don't much matter anymore anyway. Just because the Trilateral Commission doesn't get a lot of media coverage doesn't mean that they haven't been involved in a lot either. They certainly have easy access to those who currently HAVE power.



True.  But compare their actual influence to say, the ACLU, an organization doing real damage to this nation by purposefully misinterpretting our laws and making sure they file with activist courts that will back them up.

Or Louis Farrakham, who stands on the steps of our Nation's capitol and promotes racial segregation.

How about LULAC?  There's no ryhme nor reason THERE.  If a mexican wants it, they stand behind it, no matter how contradictory or hypocritical one stance may be with another.

The list goes on.  My point is, REAL damage is beign done to our Nation.  We might ought to think about acting on that before we go to acting on suppositions.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 31, 2006)

GunnyL said:


> True.  But compare their actual influence to say, the ACLU, an organization doing real damage to this nation by purposefully misinterpretting our laws and making sure they file with activist courts that will back them up.
> 
> Or Louis Farrakham, who stands on the steps of our Nation's capitol and promotes racial segregation.
> 
> ...



I'm more concerned about groups such as the Trilateral Commisson, Council on Foreign Realtions etc. Who all have high powered corporate leaders, ex-presidents, Secretaries of state and on and on. The president asked it's members for advice on how to deal with Iraq. Now that's influence in my book and I wanna know more about them instead of blowing them off as a bunch of old had beens. They ain't all just playing for nothing.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 31, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I'm more concerned about groups such as the Trilateral Commisson, Council on Foreign Realtions etc. Who all have high powered corporate leaders, ex-presidents, Secretaries of state and on and on. The president asked it's members for advice on how to deal with Iraq. Now that's influence in my book and I wanna know more about them instead of blowing them off as a bunch of old had beens. They ain't all just playing for nothing.



Indeed Dillo!

*And they're not playing for peanuts either*.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 31, 2006)

Adding fuel to the fire, the _Washington Post_ published a piece in 1976 that said, "Trilateralists are not three-sided people. They are members of a private, thought not secret, international organization put together by the wealthy banker David Rockefeller."

But here is the unsettling thing about the Trilateral Commission. The President-elect is a member. So is the Vice President elect. So were the previous Secretaries of State, Defense, and Treasury. So is Zbigniew Brzezinski, who is a former Trilateral Director and was President Carter's National Security Advisor. And along with all of them, are the other members, who are people that will continue to make foreign policy for Americans in the coming years.

Can't the people see? It's the same people over and over again who are calling the shots for us regardless of who the President is. It's the international bankers on Wall Street and in their New York City offices. To a lesser extent, it's also many of the heads of multinational corporations. These men aren't Democrats or Republicans first. Oh no, because in their eyes, first and foremost, they are members of the CFR, TC, and the Bilderbergs.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 31, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Indeed Dillo!
> 
> *And they're not playing for peanuts either*.



well-you connected all the dots in a longggggggggggggggggggggggg draaawnnnnnnnnnnnnn outttttttttttttttttttt affair. You left posters no chance to jump in and confront you about your assertions. You set yourself up to be blown off as a nutcase. Another approach may be a little more open to discussion?

 How do ya get to be a tri-lateral anyhow and why would I want to be one?


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 31, 2006)

But at the crux of these 3 organizations people, stands one man who seems to be the kingpin of all this shit. And his father before him was one as well. The man who is most reponsible for these 3 organizations would have to be none other than David Rockefeller. One of the most wicked, cold-hearted, disturbed individuals on our planet. And he's got plenty of power to boot.

In fact, at a 1974 Bilderberg meeting, seven of the eighteen Americans present, or 39 percent, were either Rockefellers per se, or Rockefeller agents. 

When you examine these organizations, what do you find? The CFR's former Director was who? David Rockefeller. Who co-founded the Trilateral Commission? David Rockefeller! And who controls nearly 40% (of the American invitees) to one of the most powerful groups of all, the Bilderbergs? David Rockefeller!


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 31, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> well-you connected all the dots in a longggggggggggggggggggggggg draaawnnnnnnnnnnnnn outttttttttttttttttttt affair. You left posters no chance to jump in and confront you about your assertions. You set yourself up to be blown off as a nutcase. Another approach may be a little more open to discussion?
> 
> How do ya get to be a tri-lateral anyhow and why would I want to be one?



You don't want to be one. And you wouldn't be allowed to be one just for being Dilloduck. Lol. It would take a little more than that my friend. Your Bloodline, for example. Your ties to people who are "powerful". Your outlook on the World. Your obedience. Your ability to think without feeling. And....most of all...your ability to not care about anything or anybody other than yourself.

If you have all of those things going for you, then you might have a shot at being one of these bastards.

As far as the way I post, sorry to dissapoint you.


----------



## Annie (Dec 31, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> well-you connected all the dots in a longggggggggggggggggggggggg draaawnnnnnnnnnnnnn outttttttttttttttttttt affair. You left posters no chance to jump in and confront you about your assertions. You set yourself up to be blown off as a nutcase. Another approach may be a little more open to discussion?
> 
> How do ya get to be a tri-lateral anyhow and why would I want to be one?



...as a nutcase?


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 31, 2006)

Kathianne said:


> ...as a nutcase?



Take anyone who has ever suffered in the name of trying to help the World. 

As many of them have been persecuted before me. I will gladly follow in their footsteps.


----------



## Annie (Dec 31, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Take anyone who has ever suffered in the name of trying to help the World.
> 
> As many of them have been persecuted before me. I will gladly follow in their footsteps.



You flatter yourself.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 31, 2006)

*Here is some information published by Robert Goldsborough, President of the American Research Foundation that was provided to him by Mark Jones in 1992:*

"Just four men, through their interlocking directorates on boards of large corporations and major banks, controlled the movement of capital and the creation of debt in America."

And so let me guess guys, some of you are thinking, so what about a guy who's name is Mark Jones and who nobody knows about? So what? Why should we care what some Mark Jones has to say about the creation of debt in America? Who the hell does he think he is to be telling us about such things?

And thats the part where I come in and say, Mark Jones, prior to disclosing this information for the World, was the financial advisor to John. D. Rockefeller himself!

Kazzzzam. there it is again. That name that keeps popping up hey? Rockefeller, Rockefeller, Rockefeller, Rockefeller. Say it till it hurts guys. Say it till it makes you sick. That family is responsible for more problems that we have in our country today than perhaps any family in modern to recent history.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 31, 2006)

Kathianne said:


> You flatter yourself.



If by flatter yourself you mean that I feel good after saying it. Then you are absolutely right.


----------



## Annie (Dec 31, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> If by flatter yourself you mean that I feel good after saying it. Then you are absolutely right.



Just the company you are trying to join.


----------



## trobinett (Dec 31, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> Take anyone who has ever suffered in the name of trying to help the World.
> 
> As many of them have been persecuted before me. I will gladly follow in their footsteps.


----------



## Gunny (Dec 31, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> I'm more concerned about groups such as the Trilateral Commisson, Council on Foreign Realtions etc. Who all have high powered corporate leaders, ex-presidents, Secretaries of state and on and on. The president asked it's members for advice on how to deal with Iraq. Now that's influence in my book and I wanna know more about them instead of blowing them off as a bunch of old had beens. They ain't all just playing for nothing.



Fair enough.  And if you do some research and post and unbiased thread that isn't cluttered with a bazillion pages of flood-posting, I'll check it out.


----------



## Annie (Dec 31, 2006)

NuclearWinter said:


> If by flatter yourself you mean that I feel good after saying it. Then you are absolutely right.



I''ve read Gandi, Buddah, and King, you are none of these, nor are you minions.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 31, 2006)

Kathianne said:


> ...as a nutcase?



Ahhhh the board has returned to normal---let the personal attacks begin.


----------



## Annie (Dec 31, 2006)

dilloduck said:


> Ahhhh the board has returned to normal---let the personal attacks begin.



Umm, you opened that door. I just used it.


----------



## dilloduck (Dec 31, 2006)

Kathianne said:


> Umm, you opened that door. I just used it.



Right---I asked to be called a nutcase by asking a question regarding the Tilateral Commission. I you don't know the answer--stay out of it and let someone who knows better respond. Who was it had the narcisism diagnosis in your family?


----------



## nukeman (Jan 1, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> Right---I asked to be called a nutcase by asking a question regarding the Tilateral Commission. I you don't know the answer--stay out of it and let someone who knows better respond. Who was it had the narcisism diagnosis in your family?




OOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is better than a politicle ad on TV....


----------



## Annie (Jan 1, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> Right---I asked to be called a nutcase by asking a question regarding the Tilateral Commission. I you don't know the answer--stay out of it and let someone who knows better respond. Who was it had the narcisism diagnosis in your family?



No. You opened the door to Nuclear being called a nutcase. Now you've opened the door to your being questioned on reading comprehension.


----------



## Annie (Jan 1, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> Right---I asked to be called a nutcase by asking a question regarding the Tilateral Commission. I you don't know the answer--stay out of it and let someone who knows better respond. Who was it had the narcisism diagnosis in your family?



My ex, whom I had sense enough to get away from, sort of how many of us feel about you.


----------



## dilloduck (Jan 1, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> My ex, whom I had sense enough to get away from, sort of how many of us feel about you.



LOL great----I have my own little "hate dillo" club ? Y'all really shouldn't have .


----------



## Annie (Jan 1, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> LOL great----I have my own little "hate dillo" club ? Y'all really shouldn't have .



Couldn't help myself.


----------



## dilloduck (Jan 1, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Couldn't help myself.



Musta been all that peer pressure.


----------



## Annie (Jan 1, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> Musta been all that peer pressure.



Yep, we're falling over ourselves here.


----------



## dilloduck (Jan 1, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Yep, we're falling over ourselves here.



Brave crowd you hang around with-----odd that no one has the courage to appraoch me directly.


----------



## Annie (Jan 1, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> Brave crowd you hang around with-----odd that no one has the courage to appraoch me directly.



Uh, I was making a funny. Really Dillo, it's not all about you. Are you tight with my ex?


----------



## dilloduck (Jan 1, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Uh, I was making a funny. Really Dillo, it's not all about you. Are you tight with my ex?





Isn't this kind of conversation best kept to PMs as per the owners' request?

"maybe you should take you "little club" and run along"


----------



## Annie (Jan 1, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> Isn't this kind of conversation best kept to PMs as per the owners' request?
> 
> "maybe you should take you "little club" and run along"



Um, you brought up 'narccism' then kept it going. Now you wish to bam me, with your own made mallet. F off.


----------



## dilloduck (Jan 1, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Um, you brought up 'narccism' then kept it going. Now you wish to bam me, with your own made mallet. F off.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 7, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> I''ve read Gandi, Buddah, and King, you are none of these, nor are you minions.



You are right Kathianne. My name is not Gandi, Buddah, or King.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

I'm proud of you.


----------



## Annie (Jan 7, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> You are right Kathianne. My name is not Gandi, Buddah, or King.
> 
> Thanks for stating the obvious.
> 
> I'm proud of you.



Me too!


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 7, 2007)

So now it's time to find out just who David Rockefeller really is.

For starters, he is a billionaire, the Chairman of Chase Manhattan Bank (arguably the most influential financial center in the World). Also, he is a one-time director of the CFR, the co-founder of the Trilateral Commission, and a perennial attendee of the highly secretive Bilderberg meetings. 

A September 7, 1962, _Time_ Magazine article described David Rockefeller as "The prime mover in banking that controls the course of world economic affairs and history."

Those accolades aren't too shabby. But to really understand David Rockefeller, you must first become acquainted with the creator of their family fortune, John. D. Rockefeller. 

In _Titan_, _the life of John D Rockefeller_, author Ron Chernow says, "If he'd lived in the Middle Ages, he'd have been the Pope at Rome."

Similarly, in _The Rockefellers_ by Collier and Horowitz, the dynasty's dominance is unmistakable: "Among the power elite whose rulers stretched from Wall Street to Washington, the Rockefellers were without peer."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 8, 2007)

At the apex of the Rockefeller pyramid is Chase Manhattan Bank, an octopus-like financial network with over 50,000 branches and affiliates worldwide. "Worldwide" is the operative word, for the Rockefeller's loyalty isn't, by any means, to the United States, but to their global interests.

Did you know that the first American banks to open in Moscow and Peking were Chase Manhattan? In addition, Chase Manhattan financed the building of the largest truck factory in history. The only catch is, it wasn't erected in America, but along the Kama River in the Soviet Union.

Do you remember the Soviet Union? Our arch enemy, the "Evil" Empire, Communism, Stalin, and the Cold War?


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 8, 2007)

With the above information in mind, we need to ask ourselves, what do the Rockefeller's want? The best answer can be found in Gary Allen's book, _The Rockefeller File_. Their motive is to "Use American money and know-how to build up your competitors, while at the same time use every devious strategy you can devise to weaken and impoverish this country...The goal is not to bankrupt the United States. Rather, it is to reduce our productive might, and therefore our standard of living."

A case in point is China, who is set to replace the United States as the World's next superpower. Let's examine what's going on with this situation one more time. Who has given them their status as "Most Favored Nation?" We have! Who is providing all the technological know-how to bring China into the 21st century? We are! Who is giving China all their computer parts? We are! And who continues to engage in unbalanced trade agreements with China where their products flood into our country unabated, while ours are subject to tariffs and governmental regulation? We do!

When added to how messed-up the NAFTA and GATT agreements are (which were orchestrated by the Globalists), you have to scratch your head and wonder what forces would be at work to deliberately undermine our country. Is it US -- The American People -- doing it, or is it the monsters and snakes that are lurking behind the scenes? 

I don't know about you guys, but I'm going with the people behind the scenes. Seeing is how the majority of the American people are just as fed up with this b-sh!t as I am.


----------



## trobinett (Jan 8, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> With the above information in mind, we need to ask ourselves, what do the Rockefeller's want?



Somehow I have the feeling YOUR about to tell us, go on.



> The best answer can be found in Gary Allen's book, _The Rockefeller File_. Their motive is to "Use American money and know-how to build up your competitors, while at the same time use every devious strategy you can devise to weaken and impoverish this country...The goal is not to bankrupt the United States. Rather, it is to reduce our productive might, and therefore our standard of living."



So, your suggesting, that the people that have access to this "American money, and know-how", are somehow asleep at the wheel?  And, through some kind of "devious strategy", yet to be divulged(oh the suspense)the American economy will be impoverished.  This is good shit, BUT, we won't be bankrupt, no, the "devious strategy" is to rather reduce our productive might, and our standard of living.    Wow, that IS devious.



> A case in point is China, who is set to replace the United States as the World's next superpower



Oh boy, this is going to be good.

.





> Let's examine what's going on with this situation one more time. Who has given them their status as "Most Favored Nation?" We have! Who is providing all the technological know-how to bring China into the 21st century? We are! Who is giving China all their computer parts? We are! And who continues to engage in unbalanced trade agreements with China where their products flood into our country unabated, while ours are subject to tariffs and governmental regulation? We do!



Hurray!  So we control China, I already knew that, follow the money.  Global companies OWN China. Who owns Global companies?  WE DO, SO, check, and check mate.



> When added to how messed-up the NAFTA and GATT agreements are (which were orchestrated by the Globalists), you have to scratch your heard and wonder what forces would be at work to deliberately undermine our country. Is it US -- The American People -- doing it, or is it the monsters and snakes that are lurking behind the scenes?



Wait, wait, ask me, I know.  The democrats are behind it all.

Does this person have his tin hat on?



> I don't know about you guys, but I'm going with the people behind the scenes. Seeing is how the majority of the American people are just as fed up with this b-sh!t as I am.



Good for you.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 8, 2007)

John D. Rockefeller HIMSELF, in his autobiography, _Reminiscenses_, reinforced this point when he said, "One of our greatest helpers has been the State Department in Washington. Our ambassadors and ministers and consuls have aided to push our way into new markets to the utmost corners of the World."

Do you know how they became a World power? Can you see the behind-the-scene machinations taking place? China's going to become the next World-super-power because they're the largest unexploited economic power in the World. And when this transformation takes place, our importance and status will be lessened, as it currently is right now. 

The United States is a cow being led to a slaughterhouse by the New World Order!


----------



## trobinett (Jan 8, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> John D. Rockefeller HIMSELF, in his autobiography, _Reminiscenses_, reinforced this point when he said, "One of our greatest helpers has been the State Department in Washington. Our ambassadors and ministers and consuls have aided to push our way into new markets to the utmost corners of the World."



Correct me if I'm wrong(I'm sure you will anyway)but isn't that the job of our State Department?



> Do you know how they became a World power? Can you see the behind-the-scene machinations taking place? China's going to become the next World-super-power because they're the largest unexploited economic power in the World. And when this transformation takes place, our importance and status will be lessened, as it currently is right now.



There is a POINT here somewhere I'm sure, would you care to enlighten the "unwashed"? 



> The United States is a cow being led to a slaughterhouse by the New World Order!




Well, that of course, is YOUR view.


----------



## dilloduck (Jan 8, 2007)

trobinett said:


> Somehow I have the feeling YOUR about to tell us, go on.
> 
> So, your suggesting, that the people that have access to this "American money, and know-how", are somehow asleep at the wheel?  And, through some kind of "devious strategy", yet to be divulged(oh the suspense)the American economy will be impoverished.  This is good shit, BUT, we won't be bankrupt, no, the "devious strategy" is to rather reduce our productive might, and our standard of living.    Wow, that IS devious.



That's the beauty of it. It's not even a dreaded "CONSPIRACY". It's happening right in front of everyone. No one understands it and therefore no no one cares. Texas may as well be Mexico. A pizza franchise has begun to accept Pesos.






> Hurray!  So we control China, I already knew that, follow the money.  Global companies OWN China. Who owns Global companies?  WE DO, SO, check, and check mate.



 I assume you are referring to stockholders ?


----------



## trobinett (Jan 8, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> That's the beauty of it. It's not even a dreaded "CONSPIRACY". It's happening right in front of everyone. No one understands it and therefore no no one cares. Texas may as well be Mexico. A pizza franchise has begun to accept Pesos.



But, MY POINT, dilloduck, is that, a FREE market will find its own level, and worrying about how it effects a nations standing in the world, is WASTED energy.  It is what it is. 








> I assume you are referring to stockholders ?



Yes, of course, sorry for not making myself clear.


----------



## dilloduck (Jan 8, 2007)

> trobinett said:
> 
> 
> > But, MY POINT, dilloduck, is that, a FREE market will find its own level, and worrying about how it effects a nations standing in the world, is WASTED energy.  It is what it is.
> ...


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 8, 2007)

Trobinett, Antagonism is an emotion that is still an open window when it comes to the ability to absorb more knowledge and information. It is not necessarily a negative one at all. Because an Antagonistic person is much more open and responsive to new information and "enlightenment" as you called it then is someone who is resentfull or apathetic.

You my friend, are about as ripe as a person in boredom for absorbing more information, even if it means that you will antagonize me because of it.

But, Trobinett, the point to also be made is that other World affairs are also being affected by the Globalists' manipulative ways. A perfect example is given by the noted economic historian Dr. Balthus Freihofner. He said, "It's long-familiar Rockefeller practice to build a financial empire on predatory ideals."

And so this is why we must take a look at other things besides China such as our war in Afghanistan and the real reasons behind it. One of the keys as I mentioned before is the oil lying beneath the Capsian region of Russia. The only problem is a little country standing between them....Afghanistan.

But, Trobinett, their bamboozling doesn't stop there. It also directly affects domestic policy, as John F. McManus points out in _The Insiders_: _Architects of the New World Order_. Mcmanus says: "One of the more sinister tactics employed by the Socialists to gain economic control of the people involves accumulating huge national indebtness. Paying interest on the debt then gives the government leaders the excuse to impose more and more taxation."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 8, 2007)

Think about this for a second guys. We pay over $300 billion per year in interest on our National Debt. If you divide this sum by all the working people in this country, the total comes to $3,000 per person per year to simply PAY THE INTEREST ALONE!

Can you see how counter-productive this situation is, both to our country and to its citizens? Every single one of us? What could each of us do with an extra $3,000 per year? We're getting screwed here in a big way. 

And do you know what's even more sickening? In 1976, the largest bank in the United States -- Chase Manhattan -- which generated huge profits throughout the year, filed their taxes. And guess what percentage of their income they had to pay in U.S. taxes? .......... Zero percent. Yes, zero percent!!!

People, the Rockefellers, quite simply, are part of a hidden network that is trying to run the World. Don't believe me? The notorious Bilderbergs met at Vermont's Woodstock Inn years ago. Guess who owned the lodge? Laurance Rockefeller. They also met at a resort in Williamsburg Virginia. And who owned that one? You got it -- The Rockefeller family.


----------



## trobinett (Jan 8, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Trobinett, Antagonism is an emotion that is still an open window when it comes to the ability to absorb more knowledge and information. It is not necessarily a negative one at all. Because an Antagonistic person is much more open and responsive to new information and "enlightenment" as you called it then is someone who is resentfull or apathetic.
> 
> You my friend, are about as ripe as a person in boredom for absorbing more information, even if it means that you will antagonize me because of it.



A thoughtful response sir, thank you.

Not in agreement with your analysis, but an interesting angle.



> But, Trobinett, the point to also be made is that other World affairs are also being affected by the Globalists' manipulative ways. A perfect example is given by the noted economic historian Dr. Balthus Freihofner. He said, "It's long-familiar Rockefeller practice to build a financial empire on predatory ideals."



I suppose, you SEEM to be an authority, what would you have a "red neck" from Arkansas do about it?



> And so this is why we must take a look at other things besides China such as our war in Afghanistan and the real reasons behind it. One of the keys as I mentioned before is the oil lying beneath the Capsian region of Russia. The only problem is a little country standing between them....Afghanistan.



I wondered how long it would take you to get around to our war againts terror, and the connection to Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Oil, oil, oil, you people are like a broken record, maybe one that speaks some truth, but broken none the less.

What, do you think, the average Joe is COMPLETLY stupid?

Of course, its about the oil, and anyone who says it isn't is LIEING.  But, It ain't JUST about the oil.

There IS difference, do YOU understand?



> But, Trobinett, their bamboozling doesn't stop there. It also directly affects domestic policy, as John F. McManus points out in _The Insiders_: _Architects of the New World Order_. Mcmanus says: "One of the more sinister tactics employed by the Socialists to gain economic control of the people involves accumulating huge national indebtness. Paying interest on the debt then gives the government leaders the excuse to impose more and more taxation."



Frankly sir, the only "bamboozling" going on around these parts, is that coming off your keyboard.

New World Order, the hundred families, Rockefeller, Standard Oil, the DuPont's, Jeeezzzzz.

The whining, the finger pointing, and the wish to be in their shoes NEVER changes, only the people pointing the fingers, and crying the blues.

Grow up............


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## Eightball (Jan 8, 2007)

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Admittedly, I am not a bible scholar. However, I do seem to remember that if a prophet is from God, then his prophecies will come true 100&#37; of the time, and there is nothing anyone can do to change it. If he makes a prophecy which doesn't come to pass--like Jeane Dixon and Nostradamus--then he is a false prophet.
> 
> Also, it probably would have been a better idea to condense all this down into a Cliff's Notes 1-post version, and then have a link to wherever you copy/pasted all this stuff from.



Baron, you hit it squarely on the bulls eye!

A true prophet is 100% correct, 100% of the time.  Many will come and say here He is or there He is, or "Thus sayeth the Lord" but they are just false prophets.

That goes for Nostradamus, Jean Dixon, and the whole pile of psychics that have hit a few semi-accurate ones and an whole lot of "strike outs".

"We will have another great war."  Doesn't take a psychic to know that.  Just common sense and intuition will tell yah.  There's definitely a "show-down" in the future.
*******
As for Bible coding.....that has been debunked by bible scholars years ago.  That secret bible coding thing even infected the churches for awhile, but has gradually faded away.  

God isn't in the business of secret societies, secret codes, etc... the Bible is plain and easy to understand.....it's got it's metaphorical stufff, and it's downright "read it and weep stuff" that's telling about things that happened and will happen.  The bible doesn't have to hide things......it doesn't hold back what's necessary to reveal to mankind his depravity, and his need for wisdom, not of his own making, but of a Holy, and righteous origin. 
******
One thing you will find in commonality throughout the Psychic community.  A very distaste for biblical Christian understanding, or respect, in the area of doctrine, and historicity.  In fact you'll find that most psychics have or are dabbling in witch-craft, and all kinds of sorcery that is totally forbidden in biblical doctrine.  You will find that most psychics adhere to a "mother earth" religious bent that is basically, witch-craft in prettier vernacular......  This entails,   spirit guides, white, and black magic......alleged out of body experiences, UFO-ology,  re-incarnation, casting of spells....etc.........basically the whole gamut of mental connection with an unseen spirit world.  Which these duped Psychics think they can manimpulate.  You will not find one of these psychic prophets, that sees or respects biblical authority or Christ's gospel message in total or in exclusivity to other systems of belief.  It's like mixing water and oil......or Spirit and Flesh/carnality.

The Dixons of the world are all deluded folks.....and as a Christian, I believe they are possibly influenced or even possessed of the dark, evil, entities that the bible say exist, and are attempting to lead mankind away from God's clear, distinct message of redemption through Jesus Christ.


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## shepherdboy (Jan 8, 2007)

Like my brothers bumper sticker on his car says. "I know the future, God wins."


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## trobinett (Jan 9, 2007)

shepherdboy said:


> Like my brothers bumper sticker on his car says. "I know the future, God wins."


]

That's great!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 11, 2007)

It seems that even Lou Dobbs of CNN news has come to the conclusion that the International Bankers/Corporations along with their co-conspirators are planning a New World Order. 

As a side note...I love Lou Dobbs's personality! And his courage to tackle an issue when no-one else will.

Anyways, here is a video which covers a tiny bit about this "New World Order" that I have been posting about since I joined here.

Just click on the Link below to watch the video. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdxI0zClV_Y&eurl=[/ame]


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 11, 2007)

The Executive Office is completely at the beck and call of the Controllers. Hidden forces in New York City and beyond (such as the Bilderbergs) call the shots in our country, determining not only who gets "selected" but also who will be in their administration, and what policies they will adopt.

But there is one President in particular who I have respect for and who I would like to speak about real quickly. In fact, I believe that aside from a few other Presidents like Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, and Abraham Lincoln, this man was one of the only ones who appeared to truly give a damn about our country. And his name was JFK (John F. Kennedy).

To his credit, JFK was the last American President who wasn't totally controlled by the shadow powers. But his Administration didn't start that way. In fact, according to Anthony Lukas of the _New York Times_, 63 of the 82 members of JFK's State Department were chosen from the CFR (The Council on Foreign Relations).

In President Kennedy's cabinet specifically, the Secretary of the Treasury, the National Security Advisor (McGeorge Bundy), CIA Director, Assistant Secretary of Defense, and Under Secretary of Defense were also members of the Council on Foreign Relations. And they were all "selected" by the Controllers to be a part of Kennedy's cabinet. WITHOUT his permission I might add. Not that he actually had a choice. The "Controllers" don't play that way.

Furthermore, President Kennedy's Secretary of Defense, Dean Rusk, joined the CFR in 1952 and was also the chairman of a certain foundation. Can you guess which one? ........ It was the Rockefeller Foundation.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 11, 2007)

*The respected economist John Kenneth Galbraith said it best:*

"Those of us who had worked for the Kennedy election were tolerated in the government...but foreign policy was still with the Council on Foreign Relations people."


Heres a good way to illustrate how the President's cabinet was CHOSEN for him:

 Before JFK even took office, the "Controllers" had chosen Robert McNamara as his Secretary of Defense. Then, at a gathering of his cabinet members, President Kennedy was told that McNamara had just entered the room. Befuddled, President Kennedy had to ask which one he was prior to being introduced to McNamara. He didn't even know what he looked like!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 11, 2007)

Luckily for us Americans, JFK eventually came to his senses and realized the horrors that were surrounding him. Regrettably, however, his rebelliousness and decision to break free from the Controllers also guaranteed his death.

After threatening to break the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the wind, and after vowing to stop the War Machine by pulling out of Vietnam, he had ultimately pre-sealed his fate.


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## eots (Jan 11, 2007)

Nuclearwinter you are a wise person


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 11, 2007)

Well I'd like to say.....at least for the moment...that I appreciate your compliment eots.

But none the wiser than anyone else who has their eyes open eh? Truth be told.

Jesus said it Himself when He said that, "Nothing Hidden will fail to be discovered." "All things that are hidden are revealed Beneath Heaven."

Jesus said, "Seek and you will find." "If you knock, it will be opened". 

Do not give up on yourself either. Because Jesus also said, "The Seeker should not stop until He finds."

And that goes for all you Female seekers out there too. Jesus did not believe in Man and Woman as separate Beings. He believed that once their images were replaced for one single Image, eye for eye, foot for foot, that the Truth would be revealed.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 11, 2007)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers, against the
rulers of the darkness of this World, against spiritual wickedness
in high places.

*- Ephesians 6:12*


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## eots (Jan 11, 2007)

What could I say to you that would be of value, except that perhaps you seek too much, that as a result of your seeking you cannot find               Hermen Hess

Youth
Hermann Hesse was born on July 2, 1877, in the Black Forest town of Calw in Württemberg, Germany to a Christian Missionary family. Both of his parents served with a Basel Mission to India, where Hesse's mother Marie Gundert was born in 1842. Hesse's father, Johannes Hesse, was born in 1847 in Estonia, the son of a doctor. The Hesse family had lived in Calw since 1873, where they operated a missionary publishing house under the direction of Hesse's grandfather, Hermann Gundert.

Hermann Hesse spent his first years of life surrounded by the spirit of Swabian piety. In 1880 the family moved to Basel, Switzerland, for six years, then returned to Calw. After successful attendance at the Latin School in Göppingen, Hesse began to attend the Evangelical Theological Seminary in Maulbronn in 1891. Here in March 1892, Hesse showed his rebellious character: he fled from the Seminary and was found in a field a day later.

During this time, Hesse began a journey through various institutions and schools, and experienced intense conflicts with his parents. In May, after an attempt at suicide, he spent time at an institution in Bad Boll under the care of theologian and minister Christoph Friedrich Blumhardt. Later he was placed in a mental institution in Stetten im Remstal, and then a boys' institution 



Jesus said it Himself when He said that, "Nothing Hidden will fail to be discovered." "All things that are hidden are revealed Beneath Heaven."

Jesus said, "Seek and you will find." "If you knock, it will be opened". 

Do not give up on yourself either. Because Jesus also said, "The Seeker should not stop until He finds."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 13, 2007)

I commend President Kennedy for all that he did. President Kennedy had courage and an independent, free thinking mind. And do you know what that bought him? Death! The Controllers said, in essence, "Don't mess with us!" And I assure you that NO american President has ever tried it again since.

They KILLED the king in broad daylight one afternoon in Dallas, Texas. Not only was the act atrocious, but also symbolic. Those bullets that pierced Kennedy's skull are still speaking loud and clear today.

Of course, on the surface, the JFK assassination seems fairly cut-and-dried. On November 22, 1963 in Dallas, Texas, our 35th President was gunned-down in broad daylight while riding in his limousine through Dealey Plaza. But once we start digging a little deeper, we realize that this "killing of the king" more than forty years ago was one of the most complex events facing this nation. 

To show just how complicated this matter has truly become, one needs to only look at how many pages have been devoted to this subject. Other than Jesus Christ and Adolph Hitler, there are probably more books about John. F. Kennedy than any other figure in recent history.


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## manu1959 (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Luckily for us Americans, JFK eventually came to his senses and realized the horrors that were surrounding him. Regrettably, however, his rebelliousness and decision to break free from the Controllers also guaranteed his death.
> 
> After threatening to break the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the wind, and after vowing to stop the War Machine by pulling out of Vietnam, he had ultimately pre-sealed his fate.



i have it from a reliable source that jackie had him whacked by the greek mafia for fucking everything that moved ....


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 13, 2007)

*Journalist Jim Mars, author of the highly-touted book, Crossfire, said that:*

 "The shortest answer to who killed JFk is that, as President, he was shaking up the status quo, and the status quo struck back. This resulted in elements belonging to "Operation Mongoose", the secret war against Castro, sending their Mafia/CIA/military operatives to Dallas in November, 1963. The cover-up, if not the assassination itself, carried the approval of the Council on Foreign Relations, as many of the CFR members participated in suppressing the truth."


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## manu1959 (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> *Journalist Jim Mars, author of the highly-touted book, Crossfire, said that:*
> 
> "The shortest answer to who killed JFk is that, as President, he was shaking up the status quo, and the status quo struck back. This resulted in elements belonging to "Operation Mongoose", the secret war against Castro, sending their Mafia/CIA/military operatives to Dallas in November, 1963. The cover-up, if not the assassination itself, carried the approval of the Council on Foreign Relations, as many of the CFR members participated in suppressing the truth."



castro kicked jfks ass why kill him ... he was a drug addicted slut he was an embarrasement to the kennedys and the bouvier familys....he had to go for image sake


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 13, 2007)

One of the most crucial decisions that Kennedy made during his short lived presidency was to pull out of Vietnam. 

In his seminal work, _Rule by Secrecy_, Jim Marrs shows how the United States became interested in Southeast Asia in 1951 when the Rockefeller Foundation created a study group comprised of members from the Council on Foreign Relations and England's Royal Institute on International Affairs. This panel concluded that there should be a British-American takeover of this area. 

Soon, these goals were being forwarded by John Foster Dulles, who was one of the founders of the Council on Foreign Relations, and who was also President Eisenhower's Secretary of State. And Ironicly enough, these goals were also being forwarded by John Foster Dulles's brother, Allen Dulles, who just so happened to be the Director of the CIA. Hmmm...coincidence? Yeah right.


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## manu1959 (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> One of the most crucial decisions that Kennedy made during his short lived presidency was to pull out of Vietnam.
> 
> In his seminal work, _Rule by Secrecy_, Jim Marrs shows how the United States became interested in Southeast Asia in 1951 when the Rockefeller Foundation created a study group comprised of members from the Council on Foreign Relations and England's Royal Institute on International Affairs. This panel concluded that there should be a British-American takeover of this area.
> 
> Soon, these goals were being forwarded by John Foster Dulles, who was one of the founders of the Council on Foreign Relations, and who was also President Eisenhower's Secretary of State. And Ironicly enough, these goals were also being forwarded by John Foster Dulles's brother, Allen Dulles, who just so happened to be the Director of the CIA. Hmmm...coincidence? Yeah right.




we ended up in vietnam because of the french....would war i...french...ww2 french...middle east....french.....i am tellin ya it was a mime that killed kennedy a mime it was!


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## Annie (Jan 13, 2007)

manu1959 said:


> we ended up in vietnam because of the french....would war i...french...ww2 french...middle east....french.....i am tellin ya it was a mime that killed kennedy a mime it was!



Which country was most behind the 'Oil for Food Scandal'?


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## manu1959 (Jan 13, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Which country was most behind the 'Oil for Food Scandal'?



darfur? the congo? the french i tell ya the french.....sneaky bastadas.....


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## Annie (Jan 13, 2007)

manu1959 said:


> darfur? the congo? the french i tell ya the french.....sneaky bastadas.....



Yes, I think we're beginning to see a pattern here.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 13, 2007)

To understand how our global power structure operates, we need to know that the people who funded David Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan were members of Britain's "Roundtable" founded by Cecil Rhodes, and later headed by Lord Alfred Milner. And who directed the Roundtable? Answer: the notorious Rothschild family.

In addition, the Council on Foreign Relations is a direct American descendent of the Roundtable, which posed some serious problems for President Kennedy. And aware of how prevalent this organization was in every administration prior to his own, President Kennedy stated at one point, "I'd like to have some new faces here, but all I get is the same old ones."

Notice how in that statement, President Kennedy crafted his words. He didn't say that HE selected them, but he said who he GETS.....or in other words, those who were already CHOSEN for him!


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## manu1959 (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> To understand how our global power structure operates, we need to know that the people who funded David Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan were members of Britain's "Roundtable" founded by Cecil Rhodes, and later headed by Lord Alfred Milner. And who directed the Roundtable? Answer: the notorious Rothschild family.
> 
> In addition, the Council on Foreign Relations is a direct American descendent of the Roundtable, which posed some serious problems for President Kennedy. And aware of how prevalent this organization was in every administration prior to his own, President Kennedy stated at one point, "I'd like to have some new faces here, but all I get is the same old ones."
> 
> Notice how in stat statement, President Kennedy crafted his words. He didn't say that HE selected them, but he said who he GETS.....or in other words, those who were already CHOSEN for him!



told ya it was the french.....they help the us escape british rule and have been playing us for puppets ever since....

invade franse now....avenge JFK's murder ....there was a mime on the grassy knoll.....


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 13, 2007)

And who, you may wonder, comprised the Council on Foreign Relations in the early 1960's? Answer: the New York banking establishment, which wasn't particularly pleased with the way that President Kennedy was pushing to break the Federal Reserve's power base.

President Kennedy tried to destroy the Federal Reserve by urging businesses to deposit, invest, and borrow from non-Federal banks! He also encouraged these non-Fed banks to deal directly with and underwrite state and local financial matters. By taking this leverage away from the Federal Reserve, Kennedy could ultimately return the power to coin money back to Congress, which was how our Founding Fathers had originally established it in our Constitution. 

If this had ever happened, we would have become fiscally sound by not being forced to pay inordinate amounts of interest to the international bankers as we are today. 

President Kennedy's plan was quite ingenious, and he knew what he was talking about, for economist Seymour Harris said that Kennedy was, "by far the most knowledgeable President of all time in the general area of economics."


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## manu1959 (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> And who, you may wonder, comprised the Council on Foreign Relations in the early 1960's? Answer: the New York banking establishment, which wasn't particularly pleased with the way that President Kennedy was pushing to break the Federal Reserve's power base.
> 
> President Kennedy tried to destroy the Federal Reserve by urging businesses to deposit, invest, and borrow from non-Federal banks! He also encouraged these non-Fed banks to deal directly with and underwrite state and local financial matters. By taking this leverage away from the Federal Reserve, Kennedy could ultimately return the power to coin money back to Congress, which was how our Founding Fathers had originally established it in our Constitution.
> 
> ...



hey man if you fuck with a french banking family you get the mime.....invade france now avenge jfk's murder.....


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## Annie (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> And who, you may wonder, comprised the Council on Foreign Relations in the early 1960's? Answer: the New York banking establishment, which wasn't particularly pleased with the way that President Kennedy was pushing to break the Federal Reserve's power base.
> 
> President Kennedy tried to destroy the Federal Reserve by urging businesses to deposit, invest, and borrow from non-Federal banks! He also encouraged these non-Fed banks to deal directly with and underwrite state and local financial matters. By taking this leverage away from the Federal Reserve, Kennedy could ultimately return the power to coin money back to Congress, which was how our Founding Fathers had originally established it in our Constitution.
> 
> ...


Aha! We have a contender for the French, it's the jooos


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 13, 2007)

Jokes vs Facts.....

Hmmmm..... I declare a winner.


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## Annie (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Jokes vs Facts.....
> 
> Hmmmm..... I declare a winner.



French, hands down!


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## manu1959 (Jan 13, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Jokes vs Facts.....
> 
> Hmmmm..... I declare a winner.



why thank you for conceeding....how french of you


 i new my facts would triumph over your tastless jokes


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## Annie (Jan 13, 2007)

Ok Nuclear. Sorry, we were having giggles at the thread's expense. I'll stop now.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 13, 2007)

So, what we had at that time in regard to the Council on Foreign Relations/Banking establishment was a slew of individuals who were very upset by what President Kennedy was trying to do. 

And who specifically were these people and institutions? Well, take a look at this list of heavy-hitters that had aligned themselves against President Kennedy:


*Nelson Rockefeller* - New York Governor

*David Rockefeller* - Chase Manhattan Bank president, co-founder of the Trilateral Commission

*Douglas Dillon* - President Kennedy's Treasury Secretary & Council on Foreign Relations member

*The Wall Street Journal*

*Charles J.V. Murphy* - _Fortune_ magazine editor

*Dean Rusk* - Secretary of State - Iron Mountain panel member

*Robert McNamara* - Secretary of Defense until 1968, who later became President of the World Bank (An adjunct of the United Nations and the Council on Foreign Relations)

*McGeorge Bundy* - National Security Advisor - Iron Mountain panel member

*William Bundy* - editor of the Council on Foreign Relation's _Foreign Affairs_

*Averill Harriman* - instrumental in promoting communism in the Soviet Union

*Henry Cabot Lodge* - U.S. Ambassador to Saigon

*John J. McCloy* - Assistant Secretary of War (WWII), Kennedy advisor

*Cyrus Vance* - Secretary of the Army

*Walt Rostow* - State Department's Policy Planning Council, President Johnson's National Security Advisor

*Dean Acheson* - President Truman's Secretary of State, Democratic foreign policy advisor


As you can see, this was quite a formidable list of opponents for President Kennedy, and not one to be taken lightly.


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## eots (Jan 13, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Ok Nuclear. Sorry, we were having giggles at the thread's expense. I'll stop now.


 

It amazes me how otherwise intelligent people brains shut down when presented with these facts,they can not even comment directly the response is always nonsense about tinfoil hats ect ,and other smiley faced clown comments ,these facts are  not in dispute ,to ignore or dismiss them is simple denial



During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. 
George Orwell


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## Annie (Jan 13, 2007)

eots said:


> It amazes me how otherwise intelligent people brains shut down when presented with these facts,they can not even comment directly the response is always nonsense about tinfoil hats ect ,and other smiley faced clown comments ,these facts are  not in dispute ,to ignore or dismiss them is simple denial
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Quite a puzzle here, we do not agree with you, our brains have 'shut down.' You don't agree with us, there is no 'otherwise' to this equation, you are intelligent. Uh huh, we get it.


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## eots (Jan 13, 2007)

the NWO ,the c.f.r the Lederberg's the tri- lateral commission .the world health organization there members and there agenda is a matter of record it is fact
the double think of the globalist has reduced all fact to opinion,presented with a Mouton of evidence they simple say well thats your opinion
the only thing that is in the realm of opinion is my speculation on the intent or thought mechanisms of the deniers


Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. 
George Orwell


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

Donald Gibson, a professor at the University of Pittsburgh, wrote in 1994's _Battling Wall Street: the Kennedy Presidency_, "The establishment's rejection of Kennedy became increasingly intense during his time in office. Many of the most important advocates of U.S. involvement in Vietnam, both within and OUTSIDE the government, were members of the Board of Directors of the CFR."

Gibson concludes this thought by adding, "By the early 1960's, the Council on Foreign Relations, Morgan and Rockefeller interests and the intelligence community were so extensively inbred as to be virtually a single entity."

This information is important to understand for we are now clearly able to see that there were extremely powerful forces at work in the American financial, military, and intelligence communities (among others) who had a vested interest in promoting their business, banking, and Vietnam policies.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

So now is a good time to ask, what were the motives of those who wanted us to remain in Vietnam? Well, beyond the obvious profits to be made from the war, the interest to be derived by bankers off of huge loans made to the U.S., and the opium market that would be cornered in the Golden Triangle, Vietnam came to epitomize a sinister Hegelian Dialectic at work. Here is the way it operated:

First of all a PROBLEM was created where the Communist faction of the global elite's power structure took control of North Vietnam, thus "creating" a 'domino-theory' scenario that could be used as an excuse for the anti-communists. A supposed SOLUTION offered to the American people as a reason to draw them into war was to provide financial and military aid to South Vietnam. The resulting SYNTHESIS came about when the Controllers expanded their influence into Southeast Asia and exploited the area economically while at the same time transporting heroin into the United States and around the World.

So, on one side we have the CIA backing South Vietnam, while the Communists supported the North Vietnamese. And everyone from that list I posted before was telling President Kennedy to send more troops into the area to carry out the Controllers goals. But Kennedy, unlike Harry Truman and Dwight David Eisenhower before him, wanted no part of this fiasco. In fact, on October 11, 1963, a little over a month before he was assassinated, Kennedy approved of National Security Action Memorandum 263 which stated that the U.S. would pull-out of Vietnam by 1965. To prevent this from happening, the powers-that-be orchestrated a scenario where bullets rang out in Dallas on November 22, 1963, and less than two years later we had over 100,000 combat troops in Vietnam under the code name "Rolling Thunder".


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

To show how prevalent the elitists were in their decision, President Kennedy's successor, LBJ, met on an almost daily basis with 14 of his Vietnam advisors, (nicknamed the "Wise Men"). Of these 14 men, 12 of them were members of the Council on Foreign Relations, and all of them were either bankers or lawyers! Yes, you read that correctly - bankers and lawyers were making President Johnson's decision in regard to Vietnam!

Worse, as Jim Mars points out in _Rule By Secrecy_, is that in 1985, a 26 page declassified _Congressional Record_ report outlined the "rules of engagement" that were placed on our troops in Vietnam. 

As you read these restrictions, please hearken back to the military men who've said for years that they couldn't put their finger on it, but somehow felt as if they were being deliberately set-up to lose the war. Now you know which forces were calling the shots and implementing this defeatist policy. It was the CFR-led bankers and lawyers that were working through President Johnson, who knew virtually nothing about foreign policy or war.


*1985 Congressional Record - rules of engagement and restrictions*


*1.* The United States airforce could not attack prime targets that were determined by the military brass.

*2.* The United States soldiers were not allowed to fire upon the Viet Con unless they were shot at first.

*3.* If a tank or truck was more than 200 yards off of the Ho Chi Minh Trail, they could not be attacked.

*4.* A North Vietnamese plane could not be shot at unless it was in the air and overtly offensive in nature.

*5.* Enemy missile sites being built could not be bombed.

*6.* Vietnamese troops could not be tracked if they went into Laos or Cambodia.

*7.* The North Vietnamese were told that we could not attack certain installations, so guess what. That's where they put their anti-aircraft artillery to keep it safe!

*8.* Finally, arms and supplies that were necessary to perpetuate the war were prermitted to go through the Port of Haiphone - 80&#37; of which came from the USSR and China.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

While the Vietnam War was still being waged, Louisiana Congressman John R. Rarick asked in no uncertain terms why the mainstream media was not telling the truth about what was going on. He said, "Why doesn't CBS tell the American people about the CFR and let the people decide whome to blame for the Vietnam fiasco - the planners and top decision makers of a closely knit financial-industrial-intellectual aristocracy or the military leaders under CIVILIAN CONTROL..."

Did you read the final two words of that statement? CIVILIAN CONTROL - not governmental control. Congressman Rarick was telling the American people that forces OUTSIDE the government were pursuing an agenda contrary to what was in the best interest of the United States. He continued, "Who will tell the people the truth of those who control 'the right to know machinery' also control the government?"

Folks, this isn't a conspiracy theory. These are FACTS from a U.S. Congressman in the know. People always ask: why doesn't anyone ever come forward with this information that exposes the truth? Well, they do all the time. The only problem is; those who call the shots from behind-the-scenes are also the same ones who own the mainstream media outlets and conceal this same information.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

Perhaps the biggest secret of the Vietnam War is that our Central Intelligence Agency seized control of the infamous Golden Triangle during that time period, then, along with assistance from various elements of Organized Crime, shipped huge amounts of heroin out of that area into our country. 

Because piles of money were being made from this practice and many others, those who stood to profit from this horrendous war - the armament manufacturers, bankers, military men, and drug dealers - met any suggestions to withdraw from Vietnam with immediate consternation. But that's exactly what President John F. Kennedy intended to do upon re-election. In fact, he had already planned on telling the American people that their troops would be back home by 1965. 

Think about this momentous decision for a moment. If we had exited Vietnam by 1965 like President Kennedy wanted, then EIGHT years of bloodshed in the jungles and civil unrest on America's streets and campuses could have been alleviated.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

Michael Collins Piper writes in _Final Judgement_: "Kennedy's intended change in Vietnam policy - his plan to unilaterally withdraw from the imbroglio - infuriated not only the CIA but elements in the Pentagon and their allies in the military-industrial-complex. By this time, of course, the Lansky Syndicate had already set-up international heroin running from Southeast Asia through the CIA-linked Corsican Mafia in the Mediterranean. The joint Lansky-CIA operations in the international drug racket were a lucrative venture that thrived as a consequence of deep U.S. involvement in Southeast Asia as a cover for drug smuggling activities."

Piper's simple one-paragraph explanation may be one of the most concise overviews of the Vietnam war ever written. The military men and defense contractors were making out like bandits from the War Machine, while the CIA crooks and Lansky-led Mobsters (via Santo Traficante as the major wheeler-dealer) were likewise padding their pockets. 

Author Peter Dale Scott, in _Deep Politics and the Death of JFK_, said of this phenomenon, "The flood of drugs into this country since WWII was one of the major 'unspeakable' secrets leading to the ongoing cover-up of the Kennedy assassination."


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

To provide a better perspective on this situation, Professor Alfred McCoy stated in _The Politics of Heroin_, "Since the prohibition of narcotics in 1920, alliances between drug brokers and intelligence agencies have protected the global narcotics traffic. Given the frequency of such alliances, there seems to be a natural attraction between intelligence agencies and criminal syndicates. Both are practitioners of what one retired CIA operative has called the 'clandestine-arts' - the basic skill of operating outside the normal channels of civil society. Among all the institutions of modern society, intelligence agencies and crime syndicates alone maintain large organizations capable of carrying out covert operations without fear of detection."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

On the government side, the two main Golden Triangle runners were Ted Schackley and Thomas Clines - the same two men who ran Operation Mongoose (the plot to take Fidel Castro). Thus, from 1960-1975, the CIA deployed a secret force of 30,000 Hmong tribesmen to fight the Laotian Communists. They also created heroin labs in this area; then brought it out via their own private airline - Air America.

Alfred McCoy, in _The Politics of Heroin: Cia Complicity in the Global Drug Trade_, describes how the CIA first gave smack to our own American soldiers in Vietnam before shipping it into the United States where Lansky mobsters dealt it on the streets.

Sam Giancana's biographers reinforced this point by stating that while organized crime did its thing, "The CIA looked the other way - allowing over $100 million a year in illicit drugs to flow through Havana into the U.S. It was an arrangement similar to all the rest they'd made. The CIA received 10% of the take on the side of narcotics, which they utilized for their undercover slush fund."

After the Mob and the CIA generated this dirty money, they laundered it into secret bank accounts controlled by the international bankers. That way, the government couldn't get their hands on it and the funds could be invested into the stock market, loaned out to other businesses on the take, or channeled into Secret Service black budgets.

So even though the above information is only the tip of the iceberg, now do you see why it was so important to the CIA/Mobster/international banker cabal that JFK didn't pull America out of Vietnam? The money (via illegal drug trafficking and for the War Machine) was incredible, while CONTROL of another area of the globe (the Golden Triangle) was secured.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

As a final note, only FOUR DAYS after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, President Lyndon Baines Johnson, his successor, put his name on NSAM 273, which secured our increased involvement in Southeast Asia. 

These guys weren't wasting any time! Within a few short months, our involvement in Vietnam went from 20,000 troops to a quarter of a million! The CIA had won, and ten years later 57,000 American soldiers were dead. Truly shocking and abysmal behavior. An embarrassment and blight on the American consciousness.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 14, 2007)

I'll leave you guys with this video clip for tonight. It's a speech given by John Stockwell who is an ex CIA Chief. 

No mistake about it folks, this man is putting his LIFE on the line by giving this information to the public. All that I ask from you who are willing is to give him his respect by watching/listening to what he has to say about the CIA/drug involvement, ect.

Just click on the link below to watch:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0tsTTjuxdE&mode=related&search=[/ame]


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 16, 2007)

After President Kennedy, the situation quickly deteriorated during the Johnson Administration. As the Chicago Tribune reported in September, 1964: "David Rockefeller, President of Chase Manhattan Bank, briefed President Johnson today on his recent meeting with Premier Nikita Krushchev of Russia."

It seems that Rockefeller and Nikita talked about trade and credit, but the big question is: since when do bank presidents meet with foreign heads of state to talk about high-finance, and then report back to the President of the United States? Doesn't this scenario seem a little weird?


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## trobinett (Jan 16, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> After President Kennedy, the situation quickly deteriorated during the Johnson Administration. As the Chicago Tribune reported in September, 1964: "David Rockefeller, President of Chase Manhattan Bank, briefed President Johnson today on his recent meeting with Premier Nikita Krushchev of Russia."
> 
> It seems that Rockefeller and Nikita talked about trade and credit, but the big question is: since when do bank presidents meet with foreign heads of state to talk about high-finance, and then report back to the President of the United States? Doesn't this scenario seem a little weird?



Here's a suggestion NW, get a fucking life.

Maybe, just maybe, you'll begin to understand.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 16, 2007)

Here is a video clip on President Johnson that I think some of you guys may find very interesting. 

Just click on the link below to watch the video clip.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UebjoMlkuo&mode=related&search=[/ame]


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## trobinett (Jan 16, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Here is a video clip on President Johnson that I think some of you guys may find very interesting.
> 
> Just click on the link below to watch the video clip.
> 
> ...



I mean, REALLY, talk about ONE DEMINSIONAL.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 16, 2007)

trobinett said:


> I mean, REALLY, talk about ONE DEMINSIONAL.



lol. Sorry if it bothers you. I don't know what to tell ya.


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## trobinett (Jan 16, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> lol. Sorry if it bothers you. I don't know what to tell ya.



Obviously, but that's ok, I totally understand.

The worm turns..........


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## Eightball (Jan 16, 2007)

trobinett said:


> Obviously, but that's ok, I totally understand.
> 
> The worm turns..........



Trob:  One thing I've learned.......when they are strongly obsessive compulsive.......their minds are too busy to even consider an alternative.........They are obsessed.  They are totally engrossed in anxiety, fear, suspicion...etc.

Not that this world doesn't have a lot of reason for this N.W.'s reaction, but "balance" must be maintained when dealing with family, world situations, taxes, deaths, births, religion....etc..  These folks get hold of a "thing" and they just can't let go.  No doubt their families suffer, and their friends probably drift away, as they can't even sit around and have a beer or watch football without digressing into their obsessive fears.  

There are many medications that settle the mind and allow these folks to see and obtain balance.  It's nothing for anyone to be embarrassed about either.  Drugs can do wonders and miracles at times, and restore many folks that allow them to overcome their anxieties/fears, and obsessive thought processes.

I'm not saying this about N.W. to be-little, as I can detect from his/her's post that they are very intelligent, and have a good command of the english language.  Never the less, human life requires balance in all things.  Like not spending one's life living on forums.......or chewing one's finger nails down to the flesh, etc..   

Getting a life, is not inaccurate, but I doubt that it is registering.  When one is obsessed, their mind just doesn't have the time or priority to switch out of "high" gear.  Actually a nice Xanax wouldn't hurt this kind of fearful obsession.  Of course it must be administered under very close doctor's supervision.  A low dose of the above med might allow one to not see things in such a black and white or them versus us way.  Anxiety is a downward spiraling., and N.W., you need to slow down, and smell the roses.  

I know what it's like to worry and to be obsessed.....I'm not trying to play junior therapist here.  

The world has been going to hell in a hand-basket for the last several thousand years.........You've got only a couple of those years to enjoy.  Try stamp collecting, fishing, pinocle, etc........Even tinkering on cars.....Mix with others that aren't into politics in such a hard and fast way......find some outlets.

Even find a system of belief that asuages your fears as well as not fearing the exercise of utilizing the medical community to help with your obsessiveness.  Your a smart person, but you need to ease-up and let folks enjoy and learn about you as a person.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 16, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Trob:  One thing I've learned.......when they are strongly obsessive compulsive.......their minds are too busy to even consider an alternative.........They are obsessed.  They are totally engrossed in anxiety, fear, suspicion...etc.
> 
> Not that this world doesn't have a lot of reason for this N.W.'s reaction, but "balance" must be maintained when dealing with family, world situations, taxes, deaths, births, religion....etc..  These folks get hold of a "thing" and they just can't let go.  No doubt their families suffer, and their friends probably drift away, as they can't even sit around and have a beer or watch football without digressing into their obsessive fears.
> 
> ...




Just make sure that when you talk about me as if I am crazy, that you also point out the fact that relating to this stuff about the New World Order, I am presenting FACTS. 

Solid, undeniable, facts. Video footage, articles, statements, and more. Nothing of which has been fabricated. All of which are fact.

So if I am to be "obsessed" about these FACTS, then at least include the 1,000's of others who feel the same way about them as I do.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 16, 2007)

And as Trob said, the "worm" turns, and the numbers grow. So much so that when the tables finally turn, and the World literally flips, that all those who have deceived the masses (if there are many left at all), will have a hell of a time trying to explain to people why they hid these things from us in the first place. And why they did what they did.

I feel sorry for anyone who is left to have to explain that stuff to the World. I would not want to be in their shoes when it all comes crashing down.

Oh I'm sure they'll be forgiven. But their atrocities will never be forgotten.

Most people will never allow for the same mistake to happen twice. It's just the way we learn.


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## dilloduck (Jan 16, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> After President Kennedy, the situation quickly deteriorated during the Johnson Administration. As the Chicago Tribune reported in September, 1964: "David Rockefeller, President of Chase Manhattan Bank, briefed President Johnson today on his recent meeting with Premier Nikita Krushchev of Russia."
> 
> It seems that Rockefeller and Nikita talked about trade and credit, but the big question is: since when do bank presidents meet with foreign heads of state to talk about high-finance, and then report back to the President of the United States? Doesn't this scenario seem a little weird?



Sure seems weird to me but I guess it shouldn't. I'm watching Bush turn into jello and our politicians are OK with the Mexican invasion. I mean --what next?


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## Eightball (Jan 17, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Just make sure that when you talk about me as if I am crazy, that you also point out the fact that relating to this stuff about the New World Order, I am presenting FACTS.
> 
> Solid, undeniable, facts. Video footage, articles, statements, and more. Nothing of which has been fabricated. All of which are fact.
> 
> So if I am to be "obsessed" about these FACTS, then at least include the 1,000's of others who feel the same way about them as I do.



I doubt your any crazy'er than any of us here. lol

We all have our thorns in the flesh to contend with.  or topics that we put major focus into.

My earlier post was in no way an indictment.  I apologize if it was received that way.  

Your posts just seemed as though you were in the midst of a great deal of concern, over and above the norm.  
*****
I better leave it at that.....or I'll stick my old foot in my mouth again.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Your posts just seemed as though you were in the midst of a great deal of concern, over and above the norm.
> *****
> I better leave it at that.....or I'll stick my old foot in my mouth again.




I am indeed in the midst of a great deal of concern Eightball, and if it is above the norm then all the better.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

Next I would like to demonstrate how all of the Presidents from President Johnson up until our current President George W. Bush have been bought and paid for.

I would also like to cover the fact that the Rockefeller family (a banking family) has been in close ties with all of our Presidents since President Kennedy and has basicly "controlled the show" since then as well.

No need to be confused my friends, because the facts will speak for themselves.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

*RICHARD NIXON - BOUGHT AND PAID FOR*


In 1946, Richard Nixon was a small-town California lawyer who had never held public office before in his life. He was then "chosen" to run for Congress and won after receiving money from certain forces in New York City. By 1947, just one year later, he wrote a bill for the United Nations to have the ability to "enact, interpret, and enforce World law." By 1952, only six years after being a "nobody lawyer" in Southern California, Nixon was Vice President of the United States!

You may wonder how this shady, somewhat unlikable person could have had such a meteoric rise to prominence. The answer lies with a man named Prescott Bush. And for those who still don't know, Prescott Bush was the father of George Bush Sr. And is also George W. Bush (our current President's) grandfather.

Prescott Bush was Dwight Eisenhower's favorite golf partner and the man who was not only responsible for getting Nixon into politics, but also for securing Tricky Dick's (Nixon's nickname) slot as the Vice President of the United States.

Eight years later, Nixon ran for President against John F. Kennedy. As he was drawing up his platform at the Republican Convention, he was suddenly called away to Chicago to meet with someone at their apartment to work out a few "details".

Who was this individual? Mr. Nelson Rockefeller himself. And why would Nixon do such a thing? Because he already had the nomination sewed-up. 

Why would he meet with the Governor of New York while he was a Presidential nominee right in the middle of the Republican Convention? It's so strange that Senator Barry Goldwater described it as "Grant surrendering to Lee."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

Nonetheless, Nixon lost to JFK in 1960, and then lost a gubernatorial race in California to Pat Brown in 1962. Dejected and seemingly washed up, the candidate walked away, uttering his famous line, "You won't have Richard Nixon to kick around any more."

To save his career, Tricky Dick realized that he needed something to spice up his portfolio. So in the early 1960's he joined an influential group. Guess which one it was? Yes, the nasty old Council on Foreign Relations.

Still down on his luck though, Nixon proceeded to pay a visit again to someone in New York City. Guess who? Mr. David Rockefeller. Shortly thereafter, Nixon had not only moved to the Big Apple, but he became a member of Nelson Rockefeller's law firm, and also lived in an apartment building owned by Rockefeller. Nelson ended up becoming Nixon's "employer", benefactor, landlord and neighbor."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

Richard Nixon also worked for a man named John Mitchell (later to be part of his cabinet), who was the personal lawyer for a certain individual. Can you guess who? lol. Yup. Nelson Rockefeller. I'm not sure, but doesn't it seem as if the Rockefeller family was exerting an inordinate amount of influence on poor 'ol Tricky Dick?

Amazingly, the washed up Nixon re-emerged and was running for President again in 1968 against Hubert Humphrey. And guess what organization BOTH candidates belonged to? The Council on Foreign Relations. The same applied to the 1972 election where both Nixon and McGovern were Council on Foreign Relations members. As George Wallace said, "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the Democratic and Republican parties." 

Nixon, of course, won the election in 1968, and Pat Robertson relays an interesting story about this time and period in his book _New World Order_. The tale is told by former secretary of the Navy William Mittendorf, who served as Nixon's finance chairman in 1968. Mittendorf said the morning after Nixon won the election, at 5:30 AM, two people entered his hotel room to choose his Cabinet. One of them was William Rogers. And the other? Nelson Rockefeller.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

President Nixon's Commerce Secretary, Federal Reserve Board Chairman, HEW Secretary, Housing Secretary, U. N. Ambassador, and MANY others were all members of one distinct group. The Council on Foreign Relations! He also offered the post of Treasury Secretary on two different occasions to the same person, who twice turned it down. Guess who that person was? David Rockefeller!

Spiro Agnew was also selected as Nixon's Vice President. Before he was nominated, Agnew had been the National Chairman for a certain candidate's presidential campaign in 1968. Who was the candidate? Nelson Rockefeller!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

One of the most blatantly nasty selections for Nixon's cabinet was Henry Kissinger. Let's take a moment and examine this man a little more closely.

For starters, Nixon only met Kissinger one time prior to granting him the highly important position of Director of National Security, and that was at a casual dinner party. But y'see, Kissinger brought some clout to the table, for he was the five-year personal advisor on foreign affairs for a very prominent man. Who is that man? You guessed it. Nelson Rockefeller.

Thus, it was Mr. Rockefeller who urged Nixon to appoint him, as author J. Robert Muskin discloses: "It was principally because of his long association with the Rockefellers that Henry Kissinger became a force in the Council. His influence is indirect and enormous -- much of it through his Rockefeller connection."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

On November 1, 1971, _U.S. News & World Report_ stated: "It was on the advice of Governor Rockefeller, who described Mr. Kissinger as "the smartest guy available", that Mr. Nixon chose him for his top advisor on foreign policy." 

In fact, after he was selected to fill this post, the Rockefellers gave Henry Kissinger a $50,000 check as a gift to cover his moving expenses to Washington, D.C. What a nice bunch of guys, huh!

Finally, according to Associated Press Writer Deb Reichmann (February 11, 2002), "Just before he left government, Kissinger had all the phone records moved from his office at the State Department."

And can you guess where Kissinger had these records moved to? It was to a vault at David Rockefeller's estate in New York!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

But thats not the end guys. Because during the first year of his Presidency, Nixon came up with a program called his "New Federalism". And where did he get this title? From a book written by someone very close to him. Who is that "someone"? Nelson Rockefeller!

Now, where do you think Nelson Rockefeller's head was at during this era? In an October 1975 interview with _Playboy_ magazine, Nelson Rockefeller said, "I'm a great believer in planning. Economic, social, political, military, total World planning."

Hmmmm. WORLD PLANNING and the Rockefellers. Do you think that has anything to do with the New World Order, or is that just a "coincidence"?


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

The amount of control by the outside forces was so extreme that Mike Culbert wrote an article in the Richmond, California _Independent-Gazette_ on June 27, 1974 in reference to his discussions with Charles Colson (a member of Nixon's cabinet). 

*Culbert stated:* 

"There is a defacto (secret government) operating nationally and internationally and involved in the highest circles of the U.S. government, exercising an impact over domestic policies and economics ranging between extreme influence to, at times, outright control. This extreme influence to outright control naturally includes the Presidency. The defacto, much of whose intellectual -- and financial -- muscle are to be found in the New York office of the Council on Foreign Relations, the great tax-free foundation, and certain international firms and corporations."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 18, 2007)

So anyways, as we all know, The Nixon Administration melted down and he was bounced from office. Things could have gone better, but his successor, Gerald Ford (a member of the totally corrupt Warren Commission), attended two top secretive meetings prior to being "annointed" President. What type of meetings were they? Bilderberg meetings!

But that's not even the worst part of this scam-job. Because do you remember who Gerald Ford chose as his Vice-President? Good 'ol Nelson Rockefeller.

And the scariest part is guys, that if Sarah Jane Moore or Lynnette "Squeaky" Fromme (on two different occasions) had known how to shoot their guns, we would have had a Rockefeller for President!

I can see how people would have had a hard time sleeping during that time with the thought of that rolling through their heads.


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## eots (Jan 18, 2007)

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=bohemian+grove+nixion

President Nixon Discusses Homosexuals at Bohemian Grove 
38 sec - 19-Dec-2006 -    (3 ratings) 
Nixon mentions witnessing homosexual activity while attending bohemian grove


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## eots (Jan 18, 2007)

oops...http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=bohemian+grove+nixon


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## Eightball (Jan 19, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> So anyways, as we all know, The Nixon Administration melted down and he was bounced from office. Things could have gone better, but his successor, Gerald Ford (a member of the totally corrupt Warren Commission), attended two top secretive meetings prior to being "annointed" President. What type of meetings were they? Bilderberg meetings!
> 
> But that's not even the worst part of this scam-job. Because do you remember who Gerald Ford chose as his Vice-President? Good 'ol Nelson Rockefeller.
> 
> ...



Do you realize how many of the posts are your's versus anyone else on this forum?  There's very little intercourse going on between you and anyone else.......It's all you.

People are going to start avoiding posting in your topics, if you continue to flood them with your posts, and not allow some "back and forth" intercourse of ideas, statements.

Ever wonder why you topics aren't getting a lot of varied participation?  Your not listening, and reply, as much as your using forum as a "sounding" board for your ideas, anxieties, etc.  Your not listening and interacting with the others.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Do you realize how many of the posts are your's versus anyone else on this forum?  There's very little intercourse going on between you and anyone else.......It's all you.
> 
> People are going to start avoiding posting in your topics, if you continue to flood them with your posts, and not allow some "back and forth" intercourse of ideas, statements.
> 
> Ever wonder why you topics aren't getting a lot of varied participation?  Your not listening, and reply, as much as your using forum as a "sounding" board for your ideas, anxieties, etc.  Your not listening and interacting with the others.



It's funny that you would try and use that false statement against me Eightball considering the fact that I have answered every single post you have ever sent in my direction.

Very interesting in fact that you would take that position against me. To me it makes no sense at all.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

*JIMMY CARTER - BOUGHT AND PAID FOR*


To understand Jimmy Carter's phenomenal rise to public office, we must first return to his home state of Georgia. Which family has much of it's personal investment property in Atlanta, Georgia? Answer: the Rockefellers. Their influence in this city is so vast that David Horowitz, in his book, _The Rockefellers,_ said, "Atlanta is Rockefeller Center South."

In 1971 David Rockefeller invited the virtually unknown Jimmy Carter to eat with him at Chase Manhattan Bank in New York City. The year before, in 1970, he was transformed from a simple peanut farmer into being the Governor of Georgia.

Their interaction continued in 1973. Laurence Stern, reporting in the _Washington Post_ on May 8, 1976, said that Jimmy Carter met with two individuals in London and was told that he would be given the go ahead to win the Presidency.

Who were these two individuals? One was Lord Rothschild, and the other was David Rockefeller! This story is corroborated by a 1973 _London Times_ article that said while in London during the autumn of 1973, Carter met with another visitor who was forming an international commission and wanted someone to fill the slot of Presidency in the White House.

The commission they formed was the Trilateral Commission, of course. And the person Carter met with? David Rockefeller! Now do you think there are no behind-the-scene interventions by very powerful and secretive men? Carter met with the Rothschilds and Rockefellers!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

But David Rockefeller wasn't the only man to take Carter under his wing. There was also the mad dog Zgibniew Brzezinski (The guy who loves Communism and Marxism). 

On may 23, 1976, _New York Times_ reporter Leslie H. Gelb wrote: "Brzezinski was the first guy in the Community to pay attention to Carter, to take him seriously. He spent time with Carter, talked to him, sent him books and articles, educated him." 

In other words, Zgibniew Brzezinski became Jimmy Carter's mentor, and he made and molded this virtual "unknown", and then SELECTED him for President! Sixteen years later, they did the same thing with another relative "unknown" -- Bill Clinton.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

So don't you guys see? THEY have much more influence than we do in regard to whom will occupy the White House.

The _Far Eastern Economic Review_, quoted by Howard Zinn in his book _A People's History of the United States_ confirms this point. He writes: "Peter Bourne, Carter's former Deputy Campaign Chief, has said David Rockefeller and Zgibniew Brzezinski had both agreed that Carter was the ideal politician to build on."

I don't know about you, but doesn't this "arrangement" seem pretty twisted? Since when do David Rockefeller and Zgibniew Brzezinski decide who the ideal President will be for our Country? Shouldn't WE do that? Worse, after they chose him, he ended up winning, too! Coincidence? Hell no.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

And the manipulations keep going: because in 1973, David Rockefeller and Zgibniew Brzezinski formed the Trilateral Commission. These men wanted a Trilateral in the oval office in '76, so they went through a list of all the Liberal Democrats and decided who would best fit the "suit". 

Zgibniew Brzezinski was quoted as saying at the time: "It was a close thing between Carter and Askew (Askew was the Florida Governor at the time), but we were impressed that Carter had opened up trade offices for the state of Georgia in Brussels & Tokyo. That seemed to fit perfectly into the concept of the Trilaterals."

Again, why is Zgibniew Brzezinski making these decisions in the first place? Especially ones that are furthering THEIR global interests? Worse, after he helped to decide that Jimmy Carter would be President and what policies were to be implemented, he then became a part of Jimmy Carter's cabinet. Because he put himself there!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

It keeps getting better.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

*Senator Barry Goldwater, a man definitely in the know, described the situation:* 

"David Rockefeller and Zgibniew Brzezinski found Jimmy Carter to be their ideal candidate. They helped him win the nomination and the Presidency. To accomplish this purpose, they mobilized the money power of Wall Street, the intellectual influence of the academic community -- which is subservient to the wealth of the great tax-free foundations -- and the media controllers represented in the membership of the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission."

Ladies and gentlemen, Barry Goldwater isn't any run-of-the-mill Joe 6-pak sitting on a barstool spouting off about politics. He was one of the most knowledgeable senators we've ever had. And in the above paragraph, he essentially outlined how the 1976 Presidential election was rigged by forces hiding behind a cloak of secrecy.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

So a big question now is: what part did Jimmy Carter play in this scenario? Was he fully aware of the machinations taking place behind the scenes? Instead of giving a direct answer, let's let the drama unfold on it's own.

To get the ball rolling, let's begin with a speech that Carter gave in Boston on February 17, 1976, nine months before the election: "The people of this country know from bitter experience that we are not going to get these changes merely by shifting around the same group of insiders. The insiders had their chance and they have not delivered."

I agree. So far; so good.

A couple of weeks before winning the election, Hamilton Jordan, one of Jimmy Carter's aides, said, "If after the inauguration, you find a Cy Vance as Secretary of State and Zgibniew Brzezinski as head of National Security, then I would say we failed. And I would quit. But that's not going to happen. You're going to see new faces and new ideas."

Hmmmm, I like his Spirit, but guess what? Cyrus Vance DID become the Secretary of State. But before doing so, he was the Chairman of the Board of a very famous foundation. Can you guess which one it was? Yup, the Rockefeller Foundation!

And guess what else. Zgibniew Brzezinski DID become the Head of National Security. And can you guess what organization he belonged to? The Council on Foreign Relations. And don't forget, Zgibniew Brzezinski is also the co-founder of the Trilateral Commission with.....you guessed it...David Rockefeller!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

Things are really starting to look bad now, especially when we conider that the head of the Council on Foreign Relations during Carter's Administration was David Rockefeller. Also, Carter's Vice President, Walter Mondale, was a Council on Foreign Relations member.

Carter's Secretary of State Cyrus vance, his Secretary of Defense Harold Brown, and his Secretary of the Treasury Michael Blumenthal were all members of the Council on Foreign Relations as well. Which again, was headed at that time by none other than David Rockefeller.

Also Carter's CIA director was a Council on Foreign Relations member, as were the Secretary of HEW, HUD, his National Security Advisor, and the Ambassador to the U.N. 

In all, and please listen closely, the TOP 19 positions in Carter's cabinet were held by Trilateral Commission members. These are all extremely powerful posts and constituted nearly one-third of the TOTAL United States membership in the Trilateral Commission. Think about how scary that is.

One out of every three people in Jimmy Carter's cabinet belonged to the TC. Why didn't he just fess up and call his Administration the CFR/TC? It would have been more accurate. Add that to the fact that every single person that was instrumental in constructing Carter's foreign policy was a previous member of the Trilateral Commission. Not 10% or 50%, but 100%.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 19, 2007)

Even Paul Volcker, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, was a former employee of a famous bank. Guess which one? David Rockefeller's Chase Manhattan! 

Jimmy Carter's administration was so infiltrated and corrupted by outside forces, that on the July 1977 cover of the _Atlantic Monthly_ is a cartoon picture of Jimmy Carter and David Rockefeller in a wooden tub, with the headline reading, "Carter revealed: He's a Rockefeller Republican."

Are people finally starting to see the full picture here?


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## Eightball (Jan 19, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> It's funny that you would try and use that false statement against me Eightball considering the fact that I have answered every single post you have ever sent in my direction.
> 
> Very interesting in fact that you would take that position against me. To me it makes no sense at all.



Yep!


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## eots (Jan 19, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Yep!



it is not about truth or fact nuclears information is impeccable ,truly with his knowledge and ability to present this knowledge is professional in its level of competency ,this person needs to consider public speaking or writing and i greatly appreciate the effort ..the reason people react the way they do is they would have to abandon all they have ever known to be true and along with that a part of their own identity and so will defend the lie..it is simply to much for some


God forbid that we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." 
-- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787.ch


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## Eightball (Jan 20, 2007)

eots said:


> it is not about truth or fact nuclears information is impeccable ,truly with his knowledge and ability to present this knowledge is professional in its level of competency ,this person needs to consider public speaking or writing and i greatly appreciate the effort ..the reason people react the way they do is they would have to abandon all they have ever known to be true and along with that a part of their own identity and so will defend the lie..it is simply to much for some
> 
> God forbid that we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
> -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787.ch



In an earlier post, I commended this person on their intelligence, in presenting their topic, and their knowledge.  Maybe not in those words, but it was conveyed.

Never the less, this is a "forum".......the very definition of which, means to have "intercourse/mixing" of ideas or debate between two or more, and probably more than two would be conducive to stimulating interest.

Just because a person is filled with stacks of acute knowledge that "you" or someone else deems very viable, and important, doesn't change the fact that a lot of other very knowledgeable, and interesting posters/members are not participating in this topic.

Look for yourself.  There are myriads of posts by the same person; one after another, with no other posters's saying anything.
***
To top it off, "said" poster now is inferring that I don't like him/her.  Now we have a little bit of a persecution complex arising from someone critiquing this person's massive posting methodology on this forum.
****
I have a brother-in-law who is medically diagnosed as Manic Depressive, and also Schizophrenic.  He's a brilliant man.  Don't ever challenge him to a game of Chess, he'll eat you for lunch at that game.  His mind is constantly going and going.  As the years have gone by, he's began to obsess about people, government entities, etc.. snooping, and watching the American people.  It first started with his getting interested in those first Mars pictures that were of questionable quality back in the 80's that had some conpiracists thinking that their was a "face" on Mars.  Art Bell and George Norreyites, have kept this one going.  NASA was suspicioned of keeping a secret from us earthlings that they had actually photographed the ruins of an ancient civilization on Mars.  Later, more defined photos, in the 90's by other orbiting satellites proved that the old face on Mars was just an interesting, blurred shadowing affect of a mountain/rock formation, and nothing more.  Do these man on Mars folks accept that.  Some, but most didn't.  Obsession, obsession......

Anyway, my manic brother in law, belongs to the latter.  Now he thinks that his phones are bugged by the CIA and the FBI.  He even thinks that when he goes to the store, that these folks sneek into his house and put listening devices in his place.  

We are talking about a very high I.Q. individual here.  
*****
Now, being scared or concerned about the world, politics, conspiracies that move us around like chess pieces or puppets, might be happening.  Some of it might be sinister, and other influencers might be just plain money hungry big shots.  Obviously, even Hitler wasn't so deranged that he would take over Krupps munitions of Germany, as without Krupp, the German military was dead in the water.  Big business wields a lot of clout.  Socialism knows when to back off, and not rock the cart.
*****
Obsessing about the state of our being in this big old world of geo-politics can be draining to the individual, and sometimes indicative of some not-so-normal/balanced mental activities.
***
There are a lot of un-medicated or under-mediated Manic depressives wandering this planet.  They look just like you and me, and in many cases they might even top our I.Q. level.  They can write flawlessly, present issues flawlessly, etc., but they don't want, or have the ability to assess input from outside their obsessed realm of concern/thought.  They are sooooo focused on their "crusade" that they can't dialogue or consider alternative ideas.  That's a sign that "balance" is missing or not quite there.  

When my brother in law takes his medication properly, and is monitored closely by his doctors, he settles-down, and copes with life like the rest of us.  He still is brilliant, but his brilliance doesn't interfere with balance and prioritizing his life in a manner that covers all aspects.  He remembers to shave, and bath once a day, rather than worry himself to an exhausted state over the U.S. Government sneeking some other listening device into his home, or into his grocery cart at the super market.

When he's following doctor's orders, he's a very enjoyable person to be around.  He has a great sense of humor, his mind isn't going 100 mph., and he can enjoy social interaction with other folks.  The alternative to this with him, is suspicion upon suspicion for any and everything.  His anxieties are so high at times that he's had to be admitted to the hospital because his heart rate/pulse was soaring close to 200 bpm!  Heart palpitations, Erythmia, heavy reliance on tobacco....etc..  He really is in an internal war, that only he sees.  Either he's a prophet, or a troubled man?  Look at the brilliant Howard Hughs?
***
Now we have a new John the Baptist, warning us on this forum.  Since we don't participate or might critique, we are the ones to be pitied.  We are the sheep, and our well-informed dooms-sayer is the one with the enlightenment.  I guess it's possible, but I doubt it.
**
I'm not arguing with many of this person's information of stats or connections in the higher echelons that he/she's presented to prove their point.  I'm questioning the motives behind this massive, spam-like presentation on this forum.


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## eots (Jan 20, 2007)

resorting to the implication of mental illness is bizarre ,this subject obviously disturds you greatly,which it should but don't shoot the messenger
i suggest you verify the facts and if you find them to be true take some actions spread the word to others ,contact politicians with your concerns ,speak out against globalization ,attend protest ,i am sure nuclear is a far to wise and humble person to think themselves john the baptist
i would say nuclear is a person that realizes that America is being lead into
unwittingly into wars of conquest and a socialist/communist new world order
and the motive is to light the latern...a true American ,a true patriot


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 20, 2007)

Eightball said:


> ***
> Now we have a new John the Baptist, warning us on this forum.  Since we don't participate or might critique, we are the ones to be pitied.  We are the sheep, and our well-informed dooms-sayer is the one with the enlightenment.
> **
> [/U]



Eightball I appreciate your concern, if thats the way I am to take it, for my well being. 

However, I do not appreciate the fact that you are comparing your brother in laws situation to my own. Or that you are trying to give me a diagnosis over the internet, without ever having met me in person, sat down with me and had a drink, or talked with me at any other time than on this board.

You talk about doctors alot, and I might ask if thats what you dream to be? Because if so, then you probably have a better chance than I, because you seem to have a nack for such an activity.

However, I never, EVER, refer to my fellow Brothers and Sisters as "sheep". To do that, would be to degrate myself as well, since we were ALL created Equal, and we are ALL ONE under God - indivisable.

I can understand how people would not like the way I post in this thread. But I reserve the right to post my information, in my own thread, in a way that to me is most efficient. 

Now you can argue that the way I post is innefficient, but I would gladly dispute that claim. I have much information to relay here, and I try my hardest to answer any post that is directed towards me with an open mind, but also a firm protest if it's something I disagree with from my heart. There is nothing wrong with doing so, for either side of the arguement.

All that I ask, is that you reserve me the right to post any way I would like to as long as I'm doing it in my own thread. It would upset you if I came into your thread and started ranting and raving about the way you are bringing across your information. Especially if I demanded that your thread be removed for doing so. Not that you were implying that with your comments, but I see your arguement leading to nowhere except for that conclusion. The reason that I believe this is because I am currently answering just about any post that comes my way that is coming from a persons viewpoint and not coming from a persons judgements about who I am or how I am less of a person than they are for the way I think. 

So for your arguement to be that I am not allowing people to talk in this thread (when I have absolutely no power over who posts in here and who doesn't), to me, is a false one. It is not what this is about. And it's not where I am coming from.

In Life, we all make choices, and we should have TOTAL freedom to make those choices, as long as we know the consequences for our actions. I know the consequences for not allowing people to put their opinions into this thread, and therefore I would never try and stop them from doing so. However, coming from as strong a belief as I have in about what I am posting here, if someone is going to post an arguement and call my information nonsense, they had better expect me to fire back at them with a bucket full of ammunition, because they are questioning the very basis of what I am saying, and therefore, either without knowing it or not, are questioning my integrity.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 20, 2007)

*In his book, New World Order, Pat Robertson tells the following story:* 

"Lou Sheldon was a pro-family advocate and friend of Jimmy Carter. Prior to Carter winning the election, these two discussed what type of people they would like in Carter's cabinet."

"Lou Sheldon arrived at the Carter residence to find the next President barefoot and in blue jeans. They greeted each other warmly and Sheldon proudly presented the booklet (with a roster of names and resumes of the persons they wanted in their cabinet). Carter took it, read it, and began to cry."

"When he got back to Virginia Beach, Sheldon said, 'Jimmy was so touched by all the work that we did that tears came to his eyes."

"I said, 'Lou, you are wrong. The reason he cried is because the appointment process is out of his hands, and he is not going to appoint any of his (own) people."


According to various sources. Not ONE person that Jimmy Carter wanted in his cabinet was appointed! Not one. They were all selected for him. Are you starting to get a sick feeling in your stomach? Cuz I know I am.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 20, 2007)

*RONALD REAGAN - BOUGHT AND PAID FOR*


After Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter in the 1980 election, you would think there couldn't be two more opposite candidates. Carter was a Liberal Southern Democrat and Reagan, a Hollywood Conservative Republican. Surely, the same people who infiltrated Carter's cabinet would never be able to do the same with 'ol Ronald Reagan, would they?

This doesn't seem to be the case though. Because in 1980, two months before the November election, a party was thrown for Reagan in Middlesburg, Virginia. Reagan sat in the seat of honor, of course, and beside him to his right sat a very important man. Guess who that person was? David Rockefeller, head of the CFR & Trilateral Commission.

Somewhere along the line, Reagan was told that his bid for the Presidency on the Republican ticket would be thwarted unless he chose George Bush as his vice President. So what did Ronald Reagan do? He followed his orders. And he was bombarded with by heaps of money by....guess whom. David Rockefeller.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 20, 2007)

Ironically, a few months after being inaugurated, Reagan was nearly assassinated by John Hinckley, Jr. And who do you think was VERY close friends with the Hinckley family, even dining with them shortly before the assassination attempt? George Bush Sr. himself!

Coincidence? You decide, especially in light of the fact that Nelson Rockefeller came within a breath of being the President if Ford had been assassinated by Squeaky Fromme.

Although he claimed not to be an "insider", Reagan's cabinet was packed with Council on Foreign Relations members and/or Trilateral Commission members, including his Campaign Manager, CIA director, Chief of Staff, and Secretaries of State, Treasury, Commerce, and Defense.

It appears that the lyrics may have changed, but the music was still the same.


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## eots (Jan 20, 2007)

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent... - Thomas Jefferson

he ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves... - T. Jefferson


..Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.. -- T. Jefferson

oh that crazy tinfoil hat wearing jefferson...to bad prozac was not available in his time like any of this could ever happen


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## Eightball (Jan 20, 2007)

eots said:


> All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent... - Thomas Jefferson
> 
> he ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves... - T. Jefferson
> 
> ...



Jefferson:  Also the infamous author of the Jeffersonian bible..........a bastardization of the bible, or Jefferson's own Holy Cannon of denial.


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## eots (Jan 20, 2007)

thats a bit of a stretch..jefferson did not call it a bible..it was a essay 
there are many men of faith ,that have offered various opinions on the bible and personal interpretation

With the confidence and optimistic energy characteristic of the Enlightenment, Jefferson proceeded to dig out the diamonds. Candles burning late at night, his quill pen scratching "too hastily" as he later admitted, Jefferson composed a short monograph titled The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth. The subtitle explains that the work is "extracted from the account of his life and the doctrines as given by Matthew, Mark, Luke & John." In it, Jefferson presented what he understood was the true message of Jesus .it was presented as a opinion not as the Gospel


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## Eightball (Jan 20, 2007)

eots said:


> thats a bit of a stretch..jefferson did not call it a bible..it was a essay
> there are many men of faith ,that have offered various opinions on the bible and personal interpretation
> 
> With the confidence and optimistic energy characteristic of the Enlightenment, Jefferson proceeded to dig out the diamonds. Candles burning late at night, his quill pen scratching "too hastily" as he later admitted, Jefferson composed a short monograph titled The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth. The subtitle explains that the work is "extracted from the account of his life and the doctrines as given by Matthew, Mark, Luke & John." In it, Jefferson presented what he understood was the true message of Jesus .it was presented as a opinion not as the Gospel



You are so off.......It was published as the Jeffersonian Bible.......it was not an essay..............just find one, look at it.......and you will see that it is the Cannon, but altered by Mr. Jefferson to meet his deist beliefs.


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## eots (Jan 20, 2007)

The Jefferson Bible
by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

About nine years before his death, Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) compiled a folio booklet of 83 leaves which he entitled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, Extracted Textually from the Gospels in Greek, Latin, French, and English. The booklet, which has come to be known as the Jefferson Bible], expresses the religious principles of the author of the Declaration of Independence and the third president of the United States.

The original manuscript is in the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C., but facsimiles were published by Congress in photolithograph copy. Except for two maps of Palestine and Asia Minor, the entire volume is a compilation of four parallel columns of Gospel texts, two to a page, in the four languages mentioned in the title. The texts were not written but were cut out of printed pages of the respective New Testaments and pasted in the booklet. All the evidence points to the winter of 1816-1817 as the date of composition.

The volume contains no writing by Jefferson, except for the table of contents. However, the many references to the collection in his letters indicate that it fairly represents the extent and limitations of his religious beliefs. In a letter to a certain Charles Thompson, Jefferson speaks of this "little book, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus. A more beautiful and precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."


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## Eightball (Jan 22, 2007)

eots said:


> The Jefferson Bible
> by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.
> 
> About nine years before his death, Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) compiled a folio booklet of 83 leaves which he entitled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, Extracted Textually from the Gospels in Greek, Latin, French, and English. The booklet, which has come to be known as the Jefferson Bible], expresses the religious principles of the author of the Declaration of Independence and the third president of the United States.
> ...



Yes, "The life and morals of Jesus" according to Thomas Jefferson, not according to the Cannon or bible account.

Do you understand that Jefferson did a cut and paste, job on the bible, and came up with a Jeffersonian angle that eliminated the parts of the account of the Gospel that would bring conviction to the human soul.  

Jefferson was a brilliant man, as so many were back then, and many brilliant one's exist in the world today, but he lacked the "will" to face his own humanity, and his decisions of life before scripture's account.

People make all kinds of excuses in life to avoid biblical scripture's account of mankind, and it's plight without salvation from Christ.  Jefferson, though bright, avoided the gospel, but created his own version that allowed him to avoid conviction of his sins, as all mankind is infected.  

High I.Q. minus wisdom, is worthless compared to low I.Q. with wisdom used with it.

That's why our world is filled with so many folks that esteem education.  They see it as the Nirvana for mankind, yet they lack wisdom which is the ability to use their God given gift of "brightness" in logical, sane ways.

Timothy Leary was of high I.Q. but blew his mind-away on LSD.  Where was the wisdom in his life.

Jefferson was a deist...........He altered the bible because it didn't meet his criteria of how "he" wanted God to be.

"Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God"......Simple, succinct, yet rejected by both the intelligent and the unintelligent........as the bible crosses the lines of all classes of people.  Rich, average, or poor.  It(Gods Word) cuts deep like a knife blade right to the inner most part of man's soul.  He has two choices; flight, or face it.  Most take flight, with excuses, anger, alternatives of their own making, ambivalence, etc... Thomas Jefferson's Essay as you want to refer to it, falls into one of those category's.

The God of the bible even used T.J. in forming this special nation, the United States of America.  God takes and uses any and all instruments to fullfill His will.  Even the rebellious one's.


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## eots (Jan 22, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Yes, "The life and morals of Jesus" according to Thomas Jefferson, not according to the Cannon or bible account.
> 
> Do you understand that Jefferson did a cut and paste, job on the bible, and came up with a Jeffersonian angle that eliminated the parts of the account of the Gospel that would bring conviction to the human soul.
> 
> ...



not to mention for some excellent quotes on tyranny as well


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## SilentKnight (Jan 22, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Yes, "The life and morals of Jesus" according to Thomas Jefferson, not according to the Cannon or bible account.



Who cares? Do you really believe that the so-called canon you speak of was anything more than "The life and morals of Jesus" according to Peter, or Mark, or Luke or Paul? If we are going to rely on something as a source of guidance when it comes to the Bible it shouldn't be you. We need to look at the fact that people like you who lived at the time of Jesus started a false religion in an effort to deceive people and to have them believe that a criminal was in fact God when he was the worst kind of person.



> Do you understand that Jefferson did a cut and paste, job on the bible, and came up with a Jeffersonian angle that eliminated the parts of the account of the Gospel that would bring conviction to the human soul.



All the better for him. He took out the parts writtne by liars. I think the gospel authors were bitches and dickheads who wanted to gain power to themselves so they started a religion to benefit them financially and personally. Some had to be executed for their crimes and most importantly Jesus of Nazareth who was a common criminal was executed for his crimes. 



> Jefferson was a brilliant man, as so many were back then, and many brilliant one's exist in the world today, but he lacked the "will" to face his own humanity, and his decisions of life before scripture's account.



Those who believe the lies in the Bible cannot face their own humanity but must buy into the lie that they can live for eternity and will be resurrected after they die.  



> People make all kinds of excuses in life to avoid biblical scripture's account of mankind, and it's plight without salvation from Christ.  Jefferson, though bright, avoided the gospel, but created his own version that allowed him to avoid conviction of his sins, as all mankind is infected.



Good for him. He wouldn't buy the lies of people like you who lived at the time of Jesus who tried to deify a criminal. These so-called scriptures of yours are the writings and teachings of liars, criminals and those who would oppress. While you appear bright on the surface you have bought into a version of life written by parasites and losers so that they didn't have to face their mortality.



> High I.Q. minus wisdom, is worthless compared to low I.Q. with wisdom used with it.



You are right about that. No matter how intelligent you may be you still lack wisdom as did the jackasses who wrote the Bible.



> That's why our world is filled with so many folks that esteem education.  They see it as the Nirvana for mankind, yet they lack wisdom which is the ability to use their God given gift of "brightness" in logical, sane ways.



You lack wisdom as did those who wrote the Bible, the Quran and the Bhadvad Gita. You cannot use the innate ability that each of us have to realize that your acceptance of the Bible is illogical and based on the teachings of criminals.



> Jefferson was a deist...........He altered the bible because it didn't meet his criteria of how "he" wanted God to be.



Good for him because what he basically did was take out the shit written but nutjobs such as yourself. It proves that he is intelligent enough to throw out the garbage.



> "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God"......Simple, succinct, yet rejected by both the intelligent and the unintelligent........as the bible crosses the lines of all classes of people.  Rich, average, or poor.  It(Gods Word) cuts deep like a knife blade right to the inner most part of man's soul.  He has two choices; flight, or face it.  Most take flight, with excuses, anger, alternatives of their own making, ambivalence, etc... Thomas Jefferson's Essay as you want to refer to it, falls into one of those category's.



As the Bible was written by liars and criminals there is no reason to accept it or its teachings at face value. We must reject it like we reject it authors (aka, you at the time of the life of Jesus). There is nothing of value to the Bible and it would be as valuable if it were written today by the Apostle Eightball. I no more trust those dickheads than I do you.



> The God of the bible even used T.J. in forming this special nation, the United States of America.  God takes and uses any and all instruments to fullfill His will.  Even the rebellious one's.



When you cut through the crap what you mean to say is that you decide what is and isn't rebellious and what God does. Prove to me except by the Book written by asses like you that God is what you claim he is and has done what you claim he has done. What Jefferson did in re-writing the Bible is prove that this is what those who lived at the time of Jesus did. They picked and chose what they wanted in their Bible and then they made up the rest. The Jews and the Romans were right about Jesus being a criminal and he got the punishment he deserved. Now go pray to your God, and if you are lucky he will have you write the Gospel of Eightball.


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## Eightball (Jan 22, 2007)

SilentKnight said:


> Who cares? Do you really believe that the so-called canon you speak of was anything more than "The life and morals of Jesus" according to Peter, or Mark, or Luke or Paul? If we are going to rely on something as a source of guidance when it comes to the Bible it shouldn't be you. We need to look at the fact that people like you who lived at the time of Jesus started a false religion in an effort to deceive people and to have them believe that a criminal was in fact God when he was the worst kind of person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would have gladly enjoyed having a discussion with you, but I doubt from your post that you would want to.

In fact, we don't even have a starting point, as you have lumped me in the "liar" column.
******
Don't worry, I'm not trying to play the "victim".  Just letting you know, that I received your post, and I really don't want to reply to it in anyway than to just say, "I understand you, but don't agree.".  
*****
I apologize if I in some way offended you.  As the tone of your post is rather angry, or viteol.  I surely didn't expect that reaction, as it was just my "take" on Jefferson.  Obviously you disagree.  In fact my reply to the Eots was not disrespectful.  
****
Take it for what it is or isn't to you, I have no quarrel with you.
*****


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 22, 2007)

*GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH - BOUGHT AND PAID FOR*


Briefly, here is George H.W. Bush's biography:

In 1948, he graduated from Yale, where he was a member of the Skull & Bones organization. Skull and Bones is probably the most notorious collegiate secret societies in existence and it would also prove to be the breeding ground for the future Council on Foreign Relations members and CIA members. In fact, George Bush would later be on the Council on Foreign Relation's Board of Directors, and he also became a member of the Trilateral Commission.

On November 29, 1963, six days after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI, sent a memo to the State Department saying that Texas Special Agent W.T. Forsythe briefed "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" about "problems with the JFK assassination."

*Here is a quote from Kris Millegan's article, Everything You Ever Wanted To Know, But Were Afraid To Ask that appeared in ParaScope:*

"Many researchers contend that George Bush has been with the CIA since the early 1950's, and that one of his jobs was to consolidate and coordinate the worldwide narcotics industry, the largest industry on Earth. Some say that one of the reasons behind the Vietnam "Police Action" was a cover for the consolidation of the "Golden Triangle"."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 22, 2007)

From 1967-1970, George Bush was a Texas Congressman who served 2 terms. 

From 1971-1973 George Bush was the U.S. Ambassador during the Nixon Administration. 

From 1973-1974 George Bush was the National Chairman of the Republican Party. 

From 1974-1975 George Bush was the U.S. Liason to China under President Ford, and he was on the Board of directors on the Atlantic Council of the United States.

"Officially", in 1975, George Bush became the CIA director.

And in 1979, right on schedule and according to the plan, George Bush stepped down from both the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission. 

The following year, George Bush "announced his plan to make his first run for the Presidency." But what they don't tell you guys in history class, is that it was planned this way all along.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 22, 2007)

Concerning President Bush's run for the Presidency, David Rockefeller told Sidney Blumenthal of the _Washington Post_ on February 10, 1988, "Even though he has resigned, he hasn't walked away from them." 

In fact, on March 19, 1981, less than two months after entering the office of Vice President, Elder Bush spoke before the Trilateral Commission in Washington, D.C.! Also, the next day he was supposed to confer with them again in the White House, but that's the day Reagan was shot.

In 1980, When Bush Sr. ran against Ronald Reagan in the Republican Primaries, he received the highest contributions allowed by law from the following people: David Rockefeller, Edwin Rockefeller, Helen Rockefeller, Laurance Rockefeller, Mary Rockefeller, Godfrey Rockefeller, and a number of other Rockefeller relatives and employees.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 22, 2007)

In 1981, George Bush was put into office as the Vice President of the United States. 

In 1988, George Bush was put into office as President of the U.S. by defeating Michael Dukakis.

In 1989, guess who was listed as a new member in the Council on Foreign Relation's annual report? Michael Dukakis!

All of George H. W. Bush's cabinet members were Council on Foreign Relations members. His Secretary of Defense - Dick Cheney - was a Council on Foreign Relations member. His Secretary of the Treasury - Nicholas Brady - was a Council on Foreign Relations member. His National Security Advisor - Brent Scowcroft - was a Council on Foreign Relations member. His Attorney General - Dick Thornburgh - was a Council on Foreign Relations member. His CIA director - William Webster - was a Council on Foreign Relations member. His Federal Reserve Chairman - Allen Greenspan - was a Council on Foreign Relations member. And his Joint Chief of Staff - Colin Powell - was a Council on Foreign Relations member.

But of course, because if any of those men had not been Council on Foreign Relations members, they would not have been in the White House during George Bush's Presidency. 

And that my friends, is due to the simple fact that these organizations run the show. And they put on an act for ALL of us. And so far, up until recently, almost every single American has bought into it.

By the way, did any of those names in George Bush's cabinet sound familiar? They should. Because at one time or another, almost all of them were also a member of our current President (George W Bush's) cabinet as well. 

Like father like son eh? Not that good old George W. had a choice though. His father has always told him what to do.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 22, 2007)

In September, of 1989, Boris Yeltsin journeyed to America and visited two people. Whom was the second person he met with? Answer: George H. W. Bush at the White House. But before even doing that, whom was the FIRST person that Boris Yeltsin met with? Answer: David Rockefeller in New York City at the Council on Foreign Relations headquarters!!!

And if you are wondering who Boris Yelsin was, *he was an engineer and minor Communist Party official of the U.S.S.R.*.

He won the Russian presidency by popular vote in 1989. He opposed the policies of Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. After the Soviet Union collapsed, Yeltsin remained in power, and despite political setbacks, rumors of heavy drinking and at least two heart attacks, he was reelected to office in 1996. 

 Yeltsin, widely hailed as an effective reformer, soon became dissatisfied with the pace of perestroika, or restructuring. After challenging party conservatives and even Gorbachev himself, Yeltsin resigned from the party leadership in 1987 and from the Politburo in 1988. 

Yeltsin's place in history was assured during the August 1991 coup by communist hard-liners. When the coup collapsed after a few days, Gorbachev did return to Moscow -- but the center of power had shifted. On August 23, Yeltsin humiliated Gorbachev in front of the Russian parliament, forcing him to read out documents implicating Gorbachev's own party colleagues in the coup against him. 

So......now that you know who Boris Yeltsin is, it would be a good time to ask this question. Why would Boris Yeltsin, who became a leader of the Soviet Union in Russia, wish to meet with David Rockefeller - a banker -, before he would want to meet with the President of the United States at that time - George H. W. Bush?

I'll tell you why. It's because the Rockefellers think they OWN this country. And they pretty much currently do. Thats the sad part. Only are we going to continue to let them have power over us and our nation? Or are we going to stand up, take a charge, and topple this family's power before they get the best of us?


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## SilentKnight (Jan 22, 2007)

Eightball said:


> I would have gladly enjoyed having a discussion with you, but I doubt from your post that you would want to.



Whether you would have been glad to have a discussion with me is irrelevent. If you want to be a moron and not have a discussion because I speak my mind freely but play your little troll games go right ahead.  

I am sure there are many other people who would gladly play your little game where you decide whether they want to have a discussion with you based on their opinion and assessment of the issue and of you.  If I were to stop having a discussion with people because they think I am a motherfucking jackass then I would be in a whole hell of a lot of trouble.  Now either shut up and go troll someone else or respond to me because you want to respond to me and not because you want to somehow take my response as an opium to deal with your life and with the posts here.



> In fact, we don't even have a starting point, as you have lumped me in the "liar" column.



Of course we have a starting point and that is that I think you are a liar and you think I am lumping you in the liar column.  If you don't want to start a discussion based upon that premise and use it as a starting point that is your fucking problem.  



> Don't worry, I'm not trying to play the "victim".  Just letting you know, that I received your post, and I really don't want to reply to it in anyway than to just say, "I understand you, but don't agree.".



Why thank you for your consideration but I would have preferred it if you had not let me know that you had received my post and you did reply to it jackass and it wasn't just to say "I understand you, but don't agree" as you made more comments than that.  Like I would have cared if you were trying to play the victim. You aren't that important and your passive aggressive need to cut me off from the accusation even before I made it is idiotic especially as I don't even think you are trying to play the victim. In fact, I am more of the opinion that you are the victimizer and not the victim. 



> I apologize if I in some way offended you.  As the tone of your post is rather angry, or viteol.  I surely didn't expect that reaction, as it was just my "take" on Jefferson.  Obviously you disagree.  In fact my reply to the Eots was not disrespectful.



Grow the hell up. Only a loser would ask if he has offended me because of my manner of speaking. As for the rest of what you have said my response is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah, blah, and blah. I don't give a shit what you expected jackass. Oops, there I go being angry because my disagreeing with you about your being a jackass must mean I am offended or angry.  



> Take it for what it is or isn't to you, I have no quarrel with you.



Nor do I have a quarrel with you asshole and I don't need your permission to take it for what it is or isn't as I am going to do that anyways


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## eots (Jan 23, 2007)

I bet eightball would kick slientkkknights rude ass in  a real fight


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## Eightball (Jan 23, 2007)

eots said:


> I bet eightball would kick slientkkknights rude ass in  a real fight



Eots:

Thanks for the encouragement.  The before-said poster probably is much younger than me.  I'm not too young anymore.  I'm young in heart, but I'm one of the baby boomers that was born right after WW2.

I've had my fights in my life, but thank God they were limited to my days as a kid.  There's been a few tense times in my adult years, dealing with some folks that were expressing pretty good amounts of road rage at me.  Some of those times it was a result of my not paying attention behind the wheel, and some of the times it was not my fault.

I'm not a confrontive sort of person.  I try to work things out with talking it out.  

I don't have anything against anyone on this forum.  I realize that my Christian faith can and will raise some hackles, but this is a forum, and I try to be respectful.  Hopefully, I don't talk, down to folks, as that's the last thing I would want to do.  I have my strong opinions as other do, plus my Christian faith goes hand-in-hand with my philosophy of life and being.

Eots:  Again, thank you for the positive comments towards me.  You are what makes this forum a effective and special place, even though you and me probably have a lot of different opinons about things.

I wouldn't mind meeting you and having a glass of wine, a brewsky, or a coke; maybe a hamburger.
*****
My patent saying, on forums and usually is below my signature, but it's something like this.  "Don't say anything to anyone anonymously while hiding behind your P.C., that your not willing to say face to face.".  In my book it's cowardly to threaten, abuse, and disresepect folks while hiding anonymously in some office cubicle, or in one's home office.  Actually it's wrong in my book to do it face to face, but the anonymous root reveals a lot in a person's character.

I didn't serve in Vietnam, but was of draft age, right from the beginning of that draft.  I had a college deferment, but I still have the greatest respect for those that served in that war, as well as the subsequent ones up to present.  I lost many school friends in "Nam".  Many of my friends returned with Purple Hearts.  They're not the same persons they were before they went over there.  War is a terrible option, but sometimes a necessary option.  I don't say it lightly.  I have may present friends who are ex-Marines, Army, Navy, and USAF who served in Nam.  We have great relationships.  Some our church buddies, and some are golfing friends and even neighbors in my San Jose, Calif. neighborhood.
***
Anyway, It's obvious that some folks won't like me or just don't want to converse with me in a respectful manner.  They haven't walked a mile in my shoes of life, so they don't really know me.  In fact if they met me they might think differently, as I'm a pretty amiable person.  Anyway, I'll leave that up to our moderators to handle.  I figure that we all either dig our own holes for our own demise or we build bridges than enhance ours and other's lives.  It's our choice.  
****
Thanks again for your encouraging post to me.


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## eots (Jan 23, 2007)

hey no problem 8-ball it was pretty offensive reply wasn't it ,  to discuss these issues with people that have the same prospective from the same sources information that you do is not very interesting or informative and doesn't challenge your beliefs I enjoyed hearing your view on the Jefferson bible  ,it caused me to think , inspired me to to start reading more about Jefferson and reminded me what a truly  interesting character he was ,I might need to start a Jefferson thread and see where that goes ,I don't want to hijack nuclears patriot manifesto to much ,its so well researched and presented and such important information for anyone willing to think and listen and not just re-act...so anyway cheers ....to our right to agree or respectfully disagree


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 23, 2007)

eots said:


> I don't want to hijack nuclears patriot manifesto to much ,



No worries my friend. If you have something to say on this subject than by all means start a thread on it.

We simply don't have time to wonder about it anymore. It's too late for that now.



eots said:


> its well researched and presented and such important information for anyone willing to think and listen and not just re-act...



lol. Thanks bro. Exactly what I was going for. 

If you remember 1 thing from this at all Eots, please let it be this......

*Change 1 persons opinion and you've just changed the World*.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 23, 2007)

*BILL CLINTON - BOUGHT AND PAID FOR*


Before discussing the specifics of Bill Clinton's career, we need to know that his home state of Arkansas has long been known to be the stronghold of a prominent family for many years. In fact, one member of this famous family was not only elected as the Governor of Arkansas in 1967, but was also the first person to notice Bill Clinton and take him under his wing.

And who was this person that took Bill Clinton under his wing? Winthrop Rockefeller! It seems like the name Rockefeller keeps popping up over and over and over again? Doesn't it? And for good reason.

After graduating from high school, Bill Clinton took an internship under Arkansas Senator J. William Fullbright, who was a U.S. Senator for 32 years. He also sponsored the "Fullbright Act of 1946" which was responsible for sending American students overseas to study. In fact, Fullbright was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford, a staunch advocate of the United Nations, and is described as a "strong internationalist", another name for _globalist_.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 23, 2007)

After high school, Bill Clinton attended college at Georgetown, where the noted Illuminati insider Professor Carroll J. Quigley (author of the premier Council on Foreign Relations book _Tragedy and Hope_) mentored him. Clinton's training continued with a Rhodes Scholarship at England's Oxford University, home of Skull & Bones and also the Bush Family's favorite school. 

Clinton returned to Arkansas, and at age 29 (an amazingly young age), he became the state's Attorney General. Shortly thereafter, he rose to become the Governor and then joined an infamous organization in 1988.

Which group could it be? Of course -- the Trilateral Commission! Then in 1989, he became a member of yet another group. Can you guess which one it was? You got it -- the Council on Foreign Relations. Are you noticing a theme, or a continuous thread that keeps running through each successive administration? 

Finally in 1991, Bill Clinton was secretly invited to the creme de la creme meeting of them all -- the Bilderberg meeting -- in Baden Baden, Germany. There, it was decided that he would become the next Democratic nominee for the Presidency.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 23, 2007)

Regrettably, Bill Clinton became President in 1992 and during his first inaugural speech, he mentioned and thanked only one person by name. Do you know who it was? Dr. Carroll Quigley, one of the premier insiders of all time, and noted Council On Foreign Relations authority.

So Clinton entered the Oval Office, and soon his Cabinet was LOADED with Council on Foreign Relations members, Trilateral Commission members, and Bilderberg members. These included his National Security Advisor, his Vice President, his Secretary of State, his Secretary of Defense, his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, his CIA director, his Treasury Secretary, his Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, his Secretary of the Interior, and his HUD Secretary.

Is everything finally clear? The same people -- The Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg members keep running the American Presidency regardless of whom _they select_!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 23, 2007)

The same goes for Hillary Clinton folks. Do you really think she has any seperate goals than of those that the people had that controlled her husband? She knew what was going on the whole time. She sat by him and acted this way or re-acted that way, all to try and sway public opinion.

She is as crafty and clever as anyone I have ever seen. She truly knows when to pretend to be this way or to pretend to be that way.

Is this someone you really want in office for 4 to 8 years? Because if your answer is yes, I guarantee you that you better strap yourself in for a first class ride to Hell in a Handbasket.

Oh, and let's not forget about our current President either. George W. Bush. If you don't believe that he has the same corrupt goals that his father had, then all you have to do is go back to the posts about George Bush Sr. and take a look at the people who belonged to his cabinet. They're practicly IDENTICAL to who at one time or another filled those same seats in George W. Bush's cabinet. As I have mentioned before.

It's all downhill from here folks if things don't change. We no longer have power over who they put into the presidency. Every single President since Lyndon B. Johnson up to our current one has been bought, sold, and controlled.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

Over the past decade I've noticed a disturbing trend that is ruining our culture - which is the fact that our populace is being weakened as a whole through a variety of subtle techniques (advertising, social conditioning, political correctness, certain movements, ect.). Concepts such as strength, conviction, and belief are seen as detrimental and counter-productive. Instead, the power elite are promoting an agenda of societal weakness that will ultimately result in any fight that we have left being taken away from us.

As we move toward this end, remember one thing, which is that as the social conditions push to weaken us, they will always retain their strength and NEVER deliberately surrender one iota of it (gun control is a perfect example). 

And what is the key to this weakening process? It lies in one word - conduct. Because the Controllers want us to be TOLERANT of everything, but this tolerance only applies to those acts that follow their patterns of behavior, but not to anything that falls outside of this realm.

In a sense, the Controllers are tolerant of everything except for speech and thought.


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## Kagom (Jan 24, 2007)

This is officially the longest running thread on USMB.  You should be proud!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

First, the lies being thrown at us are systematically created. What's taking place is not accidental. The people deceiving us do so because that is their purpose within the system. By manipulating communications and the dissemination of information, they ultimately want to create a uniform opinion among the masses that fully supports their control.

Now, what happens if we are perpetually bombarded with doses of unreality? We'll eventually lose our ability to reason through a situation or come to accurate conclusions. Reality will become lost in the shuffle, and we'll accept any pablum or nonsense that the Controllers spoon-feed to us.

And as sad as it may sound, this transformation is already taking place. Because people are now able to escape the consequences of their actions through the clever manipulation of image and LANGUAGE! A good example would be the question, "Could you define what "is" is? Like Bill Clintons words when he said, "I never had sexual "relations" with Miss Lewinsky."

He was able to tell the American people a bold faced lie, while at the same time, in his own twisted mind, was able to tell the truth. At least in his way of thinking.


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## Annie (Jan 24, 2007)

Kagom said:


> This is officially the longest running thread on USMB.  You should be proud!



By sheer tediousness, it would seem so, but not quite:

http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=13935&page=801


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

Kagom said:


> This is officially the longest running thread on USMB.  You should be proud!



lol. Well, that to this day remains no intention of mine. I don't care how long this thread runs for, as long as it makes a difference.

But thank you.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

People. Look at how the AIDS virus, a man-made disease, is decimating large parts of the World, especially the continent of Africa. Take a second to examine how many fossil fuels are being burned to choke our atmosphere when an alternative - hydrogen energy - is so much more efficient. Consider how many trees, animals, waterways, farms and endangered species get eliminated each day due to "the bottom line".

I could ramble endlessly about these plights, such as how our sickening tax system is destroying our country, but instead I'll simply say that those who want to run the World are willing to sacrifice anything, including LIFE ITSELF on this planet, to promote their evil agenda.

Hell, hearken back to the Vietnam War and how 57,000 Americans were killed, and who knows how many Asians, for what purpose? To stop the spread of Communism? Hell no! The Controllers wanted to secure "The Golden Triangle" so that they could corner the global heroin trade.


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## Kagom (Jan 24, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> By sheer tediousness, it would seem so, but not quite:
> 
> http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=13935&page=801


You just had to go ruin it.  I can never take back those 6 rep points now :|


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

How do you think David Rockefeller, or one of the other "Invisibles", spends each day? They're obviously not digging ditches, sitting in an office deciding who gets a new home quality loan, or punching a clock and working a nine-to-five. Him, and those of his ilk, have SO much money that it is no longer the driving force in their lives. You see, because they OWN money, and control how it's created, distributed, and stored. Thus, those at the very upper echelon of control, those who actually call the shots, spend their time on one primary task - situating the World so that they can perpetuate their realm of control.

And just how does a being continue to control once they've assumed such a position? Does it just happen at random, or by coincidence? Of course not. The planning involved is incredible. 

One of the techniques used is called System Analysis, which is, essentially, a methodology used to examine any given situation or problem. Then, once a situation is arrived at, it is set into motion. During, this process, any number of different factors are set in place, all of which can change at any time, and all of which can affect the original proposition. All of these factors are analyzed in relation to how they affect or influence an array of possible outcomes.

In regard to World events, System Analysis is used to not only examine each situation, but also to manipulate and direct a set of goals that have already been determined. In other words, this technique is an instrument of CONTROL, that is wielded behind the scenes without the knowledge of those being controlled. The most dangerous type of control is that which cannot be seen.


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## Annie (Jan 24, 2007)

Kagom said:


> You just had to go ruin it.  I can never take back those 6 rep points now :|



LOL! I'll take them!


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

Here's what we need to remember - there are men whose sole function (one that they assumed for themselves) is to manage the World. Thus, if they're able to control the variables and different factors that affect our daily lives without us even being aware of such a force, try to imagine how this contributes to our identities, and to our decision making processes.

Many of us believe that a form of "horizontal control" is what keeps societies working. In other words, all of the elements of control are essentially laid flat on a table and exist at roughly the same level. This type of thought would characterize a government where elected leaders are chosen by the people, then serve them in a way that would be most beneficial to everyone in that society.

Now, a second group realizes that horizontal control is merely an illusion that we're conditioned to believe in by our educational system and the media. They can see that the way our system works is more through "vertical control" where there are hierarchies and levels of influence. In this system, a pyramid-like structure exists where those at the top (the few) rule over those at the bottom (the masses).

Finally, a third group sees that although vertical control holds some truth, the reality of our situation is one of "vertical manipulation", a system where control is exercised from hidden quarters and isn't readily explained to those being subjected to it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

Here is another example of how certain factors can be manipulated to achieve a desired result. Let's say a group of World leaders wanted to examine what would happen to an area if a temporary police state bordering on martial law were implemented. First of all, a very distinct segment of the populace would be targeted as the control group, then systematically and continually bombarded with information that keeps them perpetually disgruntled. When they're brought to the peak of outrage, another injustice (either actual or perceived), is the final straw that sets them over the edge. The target group then rebels and begins acting in a "socially unacceptable" manner that triggers violence. After a pre-determined period of time, the "Law" comes in and cracks the whip, establishing martial law across the area.

Now, some may say that'd never happen. They would claim that it's only conjecture. 

Well, back in the 90's, people lived through this precise scenario as it unfolded across an entire city. Do you remember the L.A. Riots in 1992? First of all there was a disgruntled group (the Blacks) who had an ongoing beef with the LAPD, and were primed for action by Spike Lee's _Do the Right Thing_. Then Rodney King got beaten, and the videotape was replayed thousands of times to keep the target group's anger festering. Finally, a trial was conducted and the police officers were found innocent.

Incensed, the blacks rioted for three days, and then the National Guard, County Sheriff's, State Police, and local Police departments set-up what was essentially martial law, complete with curfews, restricted areas, and so forth.

So, if System Analysis was used PRIOR to the riots to examine each divergent scenario, can you now see how things could be mapped-out rather than allowed to simply happpen at random, and also how certain situations are manipulated to garner a GUARANTEED response?


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 24, 2007)

At this point, I'm going to switch gears a bit and look at a concept that runs parallel to Systems Analysis - the Corporate Organization Model.

The first area of interest that we need to examine is how prevalent the use of conditioning is in our society today. Take for example the use of marketing campaigns that get us to purchase products that we don't even need. Rather than focusing on what is actually required for our survival - that which keeps us alive, like food - these companies create various "needs" in our minds that stimulate our greed and hunger.

Now some people may say, "Who cares if we are tricked into buying pretty air fresheners, or baboozled into taking our dogs to pet psychologists 'for their own good'. Whats the big deal?"

Well, if you think about it, how is our personal life, and society in general, molded by this type of subtle conditioning? If you don't believe me, think back to a time one hundred years earlier when advertising didn't play such a prevalent role in our lives. Look at how we've been "seduced" by this deceptive organism. We have teenage and college-aged girls starving themselves to death because we've embraced a culture of thinness. We're also obsessed with youth, so women in their 40's and 50's are having face lifts and tummy-tucks, while girls of all ages have boob jobs because flat-chested girls "don't stack up". What a load of bull.

In addition, adolescent girls dress like they're 20 years old because "sex sells", while our throwaway, consumer culture has led to rampant personal debt and an environment that is literally exhausted. All because we're told that these are the "things" we need to make us happy.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 25, 2007)

One hundred years ago we didn't think this way guys. But we do today. Why? Well, if you take a child that's six months old and sit them in front of a television set for six hours a day (or more), and then allow their minds to be poisoned by the public conditioning system (it can no longer be classified as "public education"), and then feed them garbage propaganda on our nightly newscasts, what would you expect? All of these forces combine to do a pretty good job of defining our identity.

Often times, people, and entire cultures, are fashioned, shaped, and molded without even knowing that such a process is taking place.

So, in light of the Corporate Organization Model, everyone is viewed as a consumer, which is why there are always different products being constantly redesigned to fill our "needs".

Now, being that the Machine is such a vital part of our Control System, what does it take to keep it running? The answer, of course, is ENERGY. This is why our current Corporate Organization Model way of thinking is persisting today. Look at some of the wealthiest corporations in the World - Exxon, Texaco, Mobil, and Gulf. What do they all specialize in? Burning fossil fuels. In regard to homes, what is the largest utility cost that we face? Again, the answer is energy. To get from one place to another, which corporations do we support? Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, ect. Related to this are the peripheral companies that keep our automobiles running - Goodyear, Firestone, Valvoline, ect. If our cars are too slow, we flock to the airline industry - United, U.S. Air, ect. Finally, to protect our borders, we throw money to an industry that capitalizes on energy - Hughes, Northrop, ect.

And so now that we've seen the connection between energy and our economy, we need to analyze how we rely on endeavors that fail to take into consideration the Human Race or our planetary concerns. How can we still be burning fossil fuels after all these years when hydrogen energy is so much better? By perpetuating this practice, we keep filling our air, water, ground, and lungs with a poison that is destroying us en masse.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 25, 2007)

As the Controllers continue to poison our planet, they're simultaneously examining ways to save their own hides. As Hugh Fox says, "The Invisables in no way depend on what we consider to be survival conditions for their own survival."

Now being that we've taken a peak at the Controller's motives, why don't the masses revolt and alter their destiny? The Controllers realize that this reaction is a very REAL possibility, and so they punch a number of factors into their Systems Analysis Model and arrive at a variety of ways to keep the populace appeased and docile.


*The three most important variables to keep the American people in line:*


*1. Economic well-being* - If our income, taxes, and cost of living are kept within "acceptable limits," then the citizenry will not cause trouble.

*2. Social well-being* - If crime rates and the quality of our neighborhoods are maintained, the people will feel safe in their surroundings.

*3. Personal well-being* - if our family life, our sex life, and our ability to "meet our goals" are kept within acceptable levels, then the masses will remain calm.


Thus, when the Controllers collude with global corporations, American business, industry, government, and the financial centers by calculating the effect of each factor within a Systems Analysis Model, we begin to see that things in our society don't just happen at random. There are hours upon endless hours of planning - and complex strategies - needed to keep the Machine rolling. With this in mind, we find that people can be kept contented with three centers of well being - economic, social, and personal. If you also keep them distracted with sports, gossip, scandals, and the overall rat race; then there isn't much they're going to do to rock the boat.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 25, 2007)

Can't you see? We're seen the same as a company that manufactures bars of soap. But instead of factoring in ingredients, raw materials, cost of production, logistics, and advertising, they plug in social variables, tax rates, crime statistics, inflation, and a slew of other numbers. 

Thus, by keeping us occupied with the Machine, we don't have the time or the effort to get enraged about the sale of our Presidency to the New World Order, blatant assassinations (i.e. Princess Diana), the loss of our input in the electoral process ("Votescam"), the creation of a horrendous disease (AIDS), ongoing CIA mind control experiments, how our guns are slowly being taken away from us, the inception of new laws that continually remove our freedoms and right to privacy, or the way our planet is being decimated and destroyed.

The sad part is, that for some people, all of that stuff is alright, as long as they still have their jobs, they still have food on the table, and that they still have a stable social structure with a belief that they are part of the greatest nation of all time.

For some people, as long as those things remain in tact, they are willing to let the "Controllers" get away with whatever the hell they want to. And it makes me sick. And I despise it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 25, 2007)

Similar to a reverse-version of Abraham Maslow's famous "hierarchy of needs" model, if the Controllers can manipulate the basic elements needed to keep us satisfied, (the least common denominator), and keep us distracted at the same time, than they can continue to chip away at realizing their dream - the creation of a One-World Government.

One may now ask, if the Controllers are so ingenious, does that mean that they never make mistakes or screw up? Of course not, but they are aware of those factors that hold the most potential for disaster. They are:

*1.* Any person (or group) that wants to overthrow the existing order.

*2.* Any reconciliation between groups usually at odds with each other.

In other words, the Controllers seek to maintain and promote CONTAINED INSTABILITY. Not full-blown anarchy or insurrection, mind you, but enough conflict to perpetuate a Hegelian Dialectic that falls within the desired parameters that have been pre-determined via System Analysis.

Someone way also wonder - why would those in control want a state of constant conflict or strife? Well, because limited wars, limited crime, limited drug use, limited auto fatalities, limited industrial accidents, limited pollution, and limited organized crime all mean that people will always be told that something needs to be done to maintain the status quo (the three centers for well-being).

What we are not told, though, is that their status quo is one of deliberate instability - there is always one force being pitted against another - constant tension - and a continual formula of conflict that is being set in motion. And, it is ALL being calculated and implemented behind the scenes, just like the Wizard of Oz.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 26, 2007)

Another reason for this instability is that whenever there are problems (which is always), the masses will constantly be looking for people to SOLVE these problems. How is this done? By introducing new products, new governmental programs, new investments, and new spending. And what results from all this "newness"? People keep consuming, and the Machine keeps rolling!

So what happens if things get out of hand? What if people get so fed up with the status quo that they feel like rebelling, or starting a war? At first glance, such a scenario would seem like a very detrimental thing. But in reality, according to the Controllers, long-term peace is not in the best interest of society (See _The Report from Iron Mountain_). 

The reason for this is twofold. First, those who rule society view certain segments of the population as "useless", or a tax on our resources. Thus, they need a way to eliminate them. And to the Controllers, what could be better than war? And secondly, war is the most effective way to stimulate a nation's economy. Plus, from a purely "business" aspect, war allows the Controllers to expand into new markets, rebuild cities that were destroyed (via interest-garnering loans), and to create new consumers (those who were conquered).

Also, for the Controllers, arms production doesn't require an advertising budget or buyers that need to be convinced of a product's merit. The only thing they have to worry about is distribution - getting the bombs and guns to the areas being warred upon.

The ultimate method of keeping the Machine in motion is via social unrest, uneasiness, and conflict, all of which hold the potential for war. Peace and tranquility are looked upon with disfavor.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 26, 2007)

To try and convince us all of this system's virtue, the Controllers use "double-agents" and "double-talk" to create an illusion that their programs will ultimately benefit us. 

A prime example of this would be the rash of cameras that are being erected in large cities and small towns across America. As these constant forms of surveillance keep an eye on us, we're told that the ones at each street corner are used to stop red-light runners, while they tell us that the ones on top of each building are used to combat drug dealers, gangs, or riotous behavior. While some people protest, we get double-talk from newspaper editorials, surveys, phony polls, and TV commentaries that tell us how great the idea is. The end result is that Big Brother slowly becomes more and more apparent through the implementation of creeping surveillance.

And yet another example of how double-think affects us is by what were taught versus the rules under which the Controllers operate. Throughout our lives, we've been told to be honest, peaceful, virtuous, and fair. And yet look at how those who wish to run our World operate. Do you think that they follow, or play by, the same rules that they've told us to adhere to? 

What I'm trying to convey is this: any time "doubles" are used, different layers of "reality" can be seen. It's similar to peeling back the layers of an onion. Once one is stripped away, other levels still exist beneath it. But we can't stop simply by exposing only one layer, because many more are still hidden that we're not even aware of until we keep peeling away at the Controller's veneer. All of these layers, then, are literally "fronts" and "double-fronts" that the Invisibles use to cover their essential CORE.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 26, 2007)

By saying one thing in the guise of another, the Invisibles create an illusion where their outer layers conceal the true nature of their inner core.

By now, someone may be thinking, everything sounds so utterly controlled, calculated, and analyzed. What would happen if somebody stepped out of line?

Not only is this an excellent question, but again, for the answer, all we have to do is look at what played-out right here in America in the early 1960's when President John. F. Kennedy was killed right before our eyes. This quote by Hugh Fox is a good starting point:

"There is a truisim in espionage circles that runs something like ASSASINATIONS ARE EASY, PLANNING "NATURAL DEATHS" TAKES TIME."

"By 1963, the Invisibles had so perfected their technique that there was no longer any need to fake natural deaths. Assassination could look like assassination - only the actual assassin's and assasination game-plan would be projected out on the Invisibles Counter-world in such a way - and on such a _level_ - that anyone searching for motivations or logistic links on the straight level of Single - (or even Double) Think would hardly even begin to understand the Logistics of this Invisable Counter-Reality."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 26, 2007)

You see folks, President Kennedy didn't play by the pre-established, traditional rules that the Controllers had set down for him (and other Presidents). A lot of time and money was invested in President Kennedy, but he reneged on his deals and turned his back on the CIA, the Mafia, and all the goals they wanted to accomplish in Cuba, Russia, and Vietnam. Everything had been planned via their Systems Analysis techniques, but President Kennedy refused to fit into their "game-model".

How so? Well, President Kennedy didn't fall into the Pentagon's fanatical campaigns against Russia or Vietnam (either a perceived "Cold War" or an actual bloodbath in the jungles), and thus, he negated the profitability of their War Machine. In fact, by Spring of 1963, Kenneth P. O'Donnel reported that President Kennedy vowed to start withdrawing all troops from Vietnam in the near future.

So what we have is a variety of powerful men who have a vested interest in how certain events unfold. They had created a Corporate Organization Model that took into consideration EVERY possible factor that affects a number of outcomes. When thing's didn't work out, the final option was to create a "game-model" scenario to assassinate President Kennedy (the source of their problems) that contained a multitude of variables.

By placing numerous false-leads and built-in decoys to divert attention away from (rather than toward) the true killers, a "counter-reality" was created similar to the "doubles" that I mentioned earlier. 

If you are having a hard time believing that.....all you have to do is look at all the different theories that have been put out into the World regarding JFK's assassination. Look at all the phantom cars theories, the grassy knoll scenarios, the hidden tunnels beneath the freeway theories, misdirection, patsies, double-identities, and missing evidence. It's incredible!

Once the kill had taken place, the "selected person" had taken his fall and the surface charade was ended as the link between "visible" and "invisible" disappeared.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 26, 2007)

To the Controllers, Exhaustion will always take the place over regeneration. Those who try to halt the consumptive nature of the Machine will be in serious danger of duly being eliminated. But let that not stop anyone in this World from standing up for what is right.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

So now that we've established a basis for how the power elite operate; we should also reexamine the reality of our situation at the present moment.

*1.* Power isn't derived from governments, and national boundaries are nothing but an illusion.

*2.* Supranational companies are the ones who are currently attempting to call the shots here on Earth.

*3.* At the top of the corporate-financial power structure are the international bankers.

*4.* At the head of this power structure - the very men who want to rule the World - are the chairmen of the World's largest financial structures (i.e. Chase Manhattan).

*5.* These entities attempt to control both war and peace.

*6.* They are not concerned with conservation, but with depletion.


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## Annie (Jan 28, 2007)

Where's the 'we'? You did mean to use 'I'?


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

In a sense, we need a new perspective for looking at the World. The concept of sovereign nations is slowly becoming a thing of the past, and is being replaced by global corporations that are controlled by international financiers. If seen in this light, the United States is nothing more than a supranational, government-subsidized business that is interlocked with every other "country/corporation," all of whom are subordinates of the World money interests.

In essense, then, what we have are national interests bowing to the global Controllers' demands. We are no longer seen as Americans, Canadians, or Australians; no, we're seen by the Controllers as cogs in the Machine that must keep churning away through the process of consumption (consumerism).


*Gundrun Tempel, in The Chairman is God, comments on how these financiers have become god-like beings:*

"Every man, woman and child is a mini-market....we are units in the biggest data bank the World has ever known."


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Where's the 'we'? You did mean to use 'I'?



I guess it can be looked at both ways. Those who have taken the same position as I are classified under the WE category. And those who haven't don't need to worry about it.

I was speaking more in terms of a mass consciousness type of thing.

You know...like when someone says, "Are you feeling me on this?"


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## Annie (Jan 28, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> I guess it can be looked at both ways. Those who have taken the same position as I are classified under the WE category. And those who haven't don't need to worry about it.
> 
> I was speaking more in terms of a mass consciousness type of way.



Seriously, where is the 'mass'?


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Seriously, where is the 'mass'?



Oh they're out there somewhere Kathianne.

Watching.

Waiting.

And remaining True to Themselves and Others.


*Blessed are they who have believed and not yet seen*.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

To the Controllers, we are ALL viewed as the "workable units" of the machine. We are seen as nothing more than insignificant elements of a colossal machine that is hooked-up to a planetary data bank, with layers upon layers of bureaucratic hullabaloo, distraction, illusion, and various modes of conditioning acting as a barrier between us and them.

At the other end of this maddeningly complex process, hidden from view, are the "Invisables". If you don't believe me, try to discuss these issues with Mr. David Rockefeller in New York City. Do you think that you'll be able to get to him? No! He's untouchable....out of reach....invisible.

We're simply viewed as cogs in the mega-machine that can be manipulated on a project-by-project basis by a group of elite planners who are hidden from public view.

People are no longer seen as Human entities, but as units or variables in a grand, machinistic design.


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## Annie (Jan 28, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> To the Controllers, we are ALL viewed as the "workable units" of the machine. We are seen as nothing more than insignificant elements of a colossal machine that is hooked-up to a planetary data bank, with layers upon layers of bureaucratic hullabaloo, distraction, illusion, and various modes of conditioning acting as a barrier between us and them.
> 
> At the other end of this maddeningly complex process, hidden from view, are the "Invisables". If you don't believe me, try to discuss these issues with Mr. David Rockefeller in New York City. Do you think that you'll be able to get to him? No! He's untouchable....out of reach....invisible.
> 
> ...


Then again, I doubt I can get ahold of Michael Moore, Bill Gates, or Jane Fonda. ARe they all controllers too?


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

The closer we approach the Invisibles, the more invisible they become. 

Take hold of this point because once we begin to see who they truly are; they erect a slew of new decoy-realities because they know that we're on to them. These added layers of concealment create new counter-realities, and the dialectic process continues to unfold. 

The very LAST thing that they want to happen is how Toto in "The Wizard of Oz" pulls back the curtain and exposes the Wizard's true nature.

To them, nothing could be more damaging.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Then again, I doubt I can get ahold of Michael Moore, Bill Gates, or Jane Fonda. ARe they all controllers too?



In many cases yes.

In fact one of them more so than the others.

I'll leave it up to you to try and guess which one I'm talking about.


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## Annie (Jan 28, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> In many cases yes.
> 
> In fact one of them more so than the others.
> 
> I'll leave it up to you to try and guess which one I'm talking about.



Oooo, how cryptic.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2007)

lol.

If that's how you choose to view it.

Freedom of Choice is a God given gift. Not a Man-given one.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 29, 2007)

Now I'd like to cover quickly a subject that I have only touched on a little bit previously in the section on The Federal Reserve.

But now I would like to focus on this subject by itself because it is one of the primary problems we are going to have to face in this country as the controllers attempt to expand their power over us in more and more ways.

One word. TAXES.


*I would like to quote a paragraph from an editorial written by the folks at State College, Pa.'s Centre Daily Times on April 17, 2001:*

"For the average Pennsylvania resident, every dollar earned between January 1 through early May is consumed by the direct costs of various levels of government, according to the Commonwealth Foundation, a conservative think tank based in Harrisburg. Another five weeks is consumed covering the costs of government regulation, according to figures used by the organization. Last year, the foundation said that when all those costs were added, average Pennsylvanians didn't begin to actually work for themselves until June 16."


What the hell is going on in this country? We are halfway to slavery already! Almost half of the money that we earn in this country is surrendered to the government through some form of taxation or regulation.

In fact, did you guys know that for many average homeowners across America, that the total of all the taxes they pay is about 48&#37; of their wages?

It's crazy! That includes our federal income tax, state tax, county taxes, local taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, phone taxes, real estate taxes, school taxes, property taxes, occupational assessment taxes, occupational privilege taxes, inheritance taxes, and capital gains taxes.

Can you f-cking believe it? Well you should. Because it's true.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 29, 2007)

Now lets look at the situation in this context folks. 

Back in the days of slavery, a worker would spend ten or twelve hours a day in the field, and of the 100&#37; of their income they _should_ have gotten, how much did they actually get? ZERO!

That's right. The plantation owner kept 100% of their income. 

Now, if you remember the example about the average homeowner in America that I posted before, how much of our income are the "Controllers" taking from us as we speak? ......48%. And in Canada it's 60%, and in a few European countries it's up to 70%. 

Folks, that means that right here in America, we are already half way to slavery, and in the socialist countries with healthcare programs and total government intrusion, if this trend continues, we'll all eventually be working for the "plantation owner" again.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 29, 2007)

Think about that!!!!

Since the last time you payed taxes, sit down and figure how much money you paid in total taxes last year. When you arrive at a figure, get a piece of paper and list all of the benefits that you derived from those tax dollars, and then put some type of value on it (if you were to get these benefits in the open market).

When you're all done, compare the list and see if you came out ahead, behind, or even from the money you paid in. If you think you came out behind, start presenting this scenario to other people and ask them the same question. "Did you come out ahead, behind, or even?"

I'll bet that out of 100 people, 90 of them will say that they came out behind. So, if almost everyone is losing, the logical question to ask would be, WHO IS COMING OUT AHEAD?

I'll tell you who. It's all the people that we've elected to the offices who are taxing us, and they are the one's who are getting paid off via graft.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 29, 2007)

Is the picture becoming clearer now folks?

Multiply those figures by every taxpayer in this country, and one thing becomes evident - SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE.

The only problem is - what are we going to do about it? We've already accepted a 48&#37; taxation rate, so how high will it have to go before we ever do something about it? Will it be 50%.....55%......how about 60%?

I guarantee you all that it won't get any lower, so how about 65% of our total wages STOLEN through taxation?

Maybe we'll even accept that amount....but 70%? It's all up to us. How much longer are we going to tolerate this atrocity?


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## Eightball (Jan 30, 2007)

Let's see now.

1. Tsunami's
2. Tornados
3. Hurricanes
4. Terrorist attacks
5. Pesticides
6. Bohemian Grove Members
7. CFR Members
8. Invisible Shakers and Makers of Ultra Corporate Levels
9. Capitalists
10. Global warming
11. Kyoto Summit/treaty
12. Ozone layer
13. Plasma Storms
14. Major earth impact of an Astroid/comet
15. Nuclear exchange in the Middle East
16. Suitcase A-bombs missing from the old U.S.S.R.
17. Droughts
18. Floods
19. El Nino
20. Rogue Waves
21. WMD's
22. Serial killers
23. Plague
22. Bird Flu
23. Madras Earthquake fault & San Andreas earthquake fault are over due to kill zillions.
24.HIV
25.Cancer
26.Heart disease
*********
Most of the above, I can't fix.........nor can anyone else.  We can defend against some of  them but we can't eradicate them.  Some we can't do a darn thing about. 

As far as these politicians in these secret societies some how having a mass consciousness that will gell into a unified movement that will go from invisible to visible, this is Art Bell and George Norrey territory.

I guess life isn't interesting enough without conspiracies behind the scenes.

Yes, the big corporate players do have influence.......My gracious, Adolph Hitler even knew better than to mess with Krupp and his massive munitions empire in Germany.  Do you kick a gift horse in the arse?  Not if you want cooperation that helps your agenda.

Do the big corporate players all somehow network together in a world-wide scheme of global proportions?  Some may have substantial influence globally, and others not so much.  Do they have a consensus of mind or mass consciousness that they all channel into to the ultimate goal of our slavery as sheeple?.......I doubt it at this time.

For thousands of years nations have risen and fallen.  Powerful leaders such as Cyrus, Darius, Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Gengis Khan, Pharoahs, the Caesars, Dictators, Czars, have impacted the borders of nations, languages and much that exists present day.  Greece is but a shell of what it was, Rome as a nation has followed similiarly.  The USSR still has some bark and bite, and now China has become a major player.  

Theres so much going on out there. There is so much to create anxiety, yet if we live in a state of constant worry about every governmental move, or individuals involved in policy to the point where we start to believe that their every affilitation in this society or that has some sinister connection of global proportions, we will knaw our finger nails to the bone.  We may be pawns to some extent, yet those folks that are allegedly calling the shots in high positions have to put their britches on one leg at a time, sit on the toilet once or twice a day, eat food, take vitamins, and be suseptible to all the weaknesses and frailties of human kind that us average folks are.  Their millions or trillions of dollars or Euros won't advance their life on earth one extra beneficial day.  Howard Hughs comes to mind.........

Human kind does like to control things.......yet to attribute a mass consciousness to this is New Agey at most.  The alpha waves that are emitted from the human brain barely travel inches from the brain........Yet somehow folks think we can all link-up as humans in sinister plots through our impressive brain waves......or something.

I still remember reading many years ago the book called "Ancient Astronauts"......basically a book trying to prove that Extra T's visited us thousands of years ago and impacted our ancient human civilizations.  The author's examples of E.T. visitations were so weak, and ludicrous that it was laughable.  This author could see a spaceship in a Mayan drawing where no sensible archeologist would venture.  The guy had an agenda.  He wanted E.T.s to have existed......to the point of bending and ruining his credibility.  

Conspiricists, are an interesting breed of folks.  There are mild conspiracists and there's extreme ones.  Some think that all of our phones, televisions, radios, cars, faucets, electric shavers, washing machines, and T.V. controllers are bugged by Men in Black.  They believe that there is a "Black Ops" that even exceeds the secrecy of the CIA, and is operating in our country.  They believe that some Jet Contrails are governmental chemistry experiments where Black Ops planes are spraying our cities with test chemicals as though we are all Guinea Pigs.  It goes on and on.

Do these conspiracists have credibility?  To themselves they are at the top of the heap in credibility.  It's self appointed, though.

Why are some folks so into this?  Are they modern day John the Baptists?  Should we heed their warnings?  I have my doubts.

There is no government in the world that isn't tainted with the nasty glue of "influence" from unsavory entities.  Thats a given.  To what extent our government or others of the world are being puppetized or influenced by the big shakers, I don't know?

I do know that the main poster in this thread really needs to enjoy some interaction with others in this forum, to reap the full benefits of it.

Just expounding information without interchange doesn't compute.  Whats the intention?  Is it to save the rest of us dummys from extinction?  Our we just a bunch of grass hoppers playing fiddles when we ought to be collecting supplies for a hard Winter, and only the conspiracists are in the "know"?  

I'm impressed with all the thousands of sentences...........but the lack of participation of others on this topic seems to indicate that the author of this thread is talking to few members most of the time.  What fun is that on the forum?

There are a lot of astute folks that inhabit this forum on both spectrums political beliefs, yet this topic isn't really encouraging anyone from any philosophy to participate, unless you are into major behind the scenes conspiracies.


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## eots (Jan 30, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Then again, I doubt I can get ahold of Michael Moore, Bill Gates, or Jane Fonda. ARe they all controllers too?



I don't think you aware of how ironic this post is , but the short answer is yes absolutely if not controllers then controlled bought and paid for
bill gates I hate you bill gates !  and Hanoi Jane do us a favor and stay home!
your kind of support WE don't need and michael...coward ? shill ? sell out
why didn't you ask the hard questions Michael why did NORAD stand down ?
what about building 7 ?


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## Annie (Jan 30, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Let's see now.
> 
> 
> I'm impressed with all the thousands of sentences...........but the lack of participation of others on this topic seems to indicate that the author of this thread is talking to few members most of the time.  What fun is that on the forum?
> ...


Agreed. As I said earlier, there can be no 'we' when only one is talking. But heh, if a platform is wanted, here it is.


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## eots (Jan 30, 2007)

is there not a we if one is talking and one is listening ?
sometimes i respond to nuclear post but mostly i read them , learn some new facts ,check out  some of the details on the web for a more expanded look at something motioned .when i recognize  A person who really knows his stuff  I don't feel the need to throw my 2 cents...nu-sense into the equation ,but just so you know you are being heard and they will tell two people and they will tell two people etc etc etc


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## Eightball (Jan 30, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Agreed. As I said earlier, there can be no 'we' when only one is talking. But heh, if a platform is wanted, here it is.



This reminds me of my old Junior college that I attended back in the 60's in the S.F. bay area.  It's was called Foothill Junior college.  It is still a Junior college to this day.

  We had a special day once or twice a year during the normal September thru June school time that was called, "Hyde Park".  I guess it was named after a Hyde Park in Great Britain, where folks of all persuasions could walk up to a podium in this park and just make speeches about anything they wanted.  They could rant a rave about Vietnam, they could tell everyone how much they loved Hitler, or whatever.  I understand that crowds would gather, and listen, and some of the speakers could be quite entertaining, and others would just bore the crowds senseless as they droned-on with their pet peeves in the world.

Well, my Junior college did the same thing.  It was quite entertaining to listen to these fellow students get up in our grassy central square on the campus, and take the podium.  We had Hippies, Neo Nazis, ......you name it.  The students would heckle and often laugh at the speakers who were outlandish in their oratory or speech contents.  It could be quite entertaining at times and at others, the speakers would cause the crowds to scatter away as they just couldn't connect, because their topics were so singularly focused, and devoid of inspiration.

Anyway, this particular topic reminds me of a Hyde Park speech.........it goes on and on and on and on......, and listeners come and go, and that's about it.

Whats the point?  One person is out-gassing a lot of frustration, and maybe that's good.  I hope that poster feels better after all of this exhaustive typing.  I hope it doesn't bring a bad case of wrist-carpal tunnel syndrome  .

It's funny, but I often wonder what some of these people who post here are like if you met them face-to-face in life, at a bar, restaurant, church, company function, etc.?  Would they talk your ear off about some "pet" problem in the world, or would they not?  Is this forum or any forum where they open up, and otherwise they are this quiet, unobtrusive citizen, who never raises a single eye brow of notice concerning their demeanor when met in public?

What you get from me, here in the forum is what you'd get in person.  I probably wouldn't diatribe so much about my faith, but that also depends on the situation and the direction of conversation.  
****
Upper most in my life, is that I desire "balance".

I know that my P.C. isn't my life, or I might get Carpal Tunnel Butt. 

I need to exercise.......and that involves some kind of exercise for my age and physical abilities.......so I like golf.  I'm a lousy golfer, so too me golf can be fun.  I don't take my score too seriously.  I still want to make a Par once in awhile, but it's not the end-to-all of my life.....Again, balance.

I want to have time with my wife.  We're empty nesters now.  I want to go on drives with her.  Do little trips when we can afford it.  We also like our alone times, too, not rejecting each other, but just being alone with ourselves to pursue interests of the moment of some extended time.

I also must add in my grandpaw role into this too.  I need to spend some time with grandkids.  They're like little jewels in grandpa and grandma's crowns; the end-product of the raising process of our three sons.  

I'm still a dad......I worry about my sons.  I pray for them, and sometimes I still have to be called to do some mentoring or counseling.  This requires being a lay-marriage counselor at times.......That also is a role my wife must do to from time to time, our daughter-in-laws are just like daughters to us, and the bond is strong.  We don't try to supplant their parent's role, but some of our boys spouses have come from some tough family situations, and they have leaned on eightball and Mrs. eightball to help them cope with life.  Our helpful reserves are limited, but we do the best we can.

I love to read.  I read spy novels, murder mysteries, foreign intrigue novels, also novels or books written by biblically based or sound Christian authors on the Christian faith, too.

I love to fish, but don't get much time to do it.  Nothing fancy either.  I love to go cat fishing in the Sacramento/San Juaquin Delta area of the interior of California.  My middle son often comes along and we just sit in a couple old camping chairs all day, and pull in pan sized catfish, using fresh water clams for bait.  We come home sunburned, and tired, but it's a "guy" thing.  Some kind of kindred bonding catching these bottom feeding scale-less fish, but it fun.  Me and son #2 talk about life, marriage, work, tell a few jokes that grandma and his wife probably wouldn't approve-of, etc..

This is a sampling of what I mean about "balance".  If I didn't have these other outlets in life, I could easily find myself "caught-up" in all kinds of worries about the world.  Remember all the folks that wanted to leave our country when GWB won the presidency?  All I can surmise is that these folks didn't really have a "balance" to their lives.  They've sunk too much into politics and worrying about who will lead us, and forgotten that life is really brushing your teeth, putting on your clothes, kissing your spouse, writing a thank you letter, whistling a tune, smelling a new rose in the neighbors front yard.......etc.  

We have nothing to worry about in our country, as long as we don't tamper with it's basic foundation.  That foundation is based on the preservation of the "family" the basic building block of any nation.  Intact families, be they, blended, or whatever.  Familes teaching virtuous goals and ethics to their progeny.  No government can fight that.........I don't care how big the powers are behind the scenes, a nation of strong, free-thinking, ethical, families, will continue to make this or any nation strong as a granite brick.  Their progeny will not "take" to brain washing in the universities as they have been taught to weigh, and consider, and not "devote" to causes, without wise counsel, and sound affirmation.

As long as we inspire our children to aspire and dream about goals and ideas, and show them how so many in the past who came from so little materially, did so much to the benefit of so many, we will continue to exist as a solid nation.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 30, 2007)

Well Eightball, shall we agree to disagree?

The only thing I have noticed about your rants and raves when you come into this thread is that you like to pass all of the information that I post off as "conspiracy theory".

I have only one question for you.

Have you ever, even for an hour, looked into anything that I have posted about?

Because if you did Sir, you might be astonished at what you would find to be factual.

And then when you understand that this information is factual and not something that I pulled out of my ass to put on display for my own "freetime" or whatever it is that you have come up with as the reason I am posting this all stuff, you simply won't have any credibility if you try and put this information into a "conspiracy nut" category or whatever category pleases your ego most.

No offense. But I am as real about this information in public as I am when I'm on this board. My question for you would be, why does it matter to a person who will probably never meet me? And probably never get a chance to categorize me either way?

In fact, your apparent need to try and categorize me scares me a little bit there Brother. As if I was ever anything else but another Human being just like yourself. As much and as hard as that might be for you to accept.

A Human being. With a brain. A body. Thoughts, ideas, and beliefs. Just-like-yourself.

I am that before I am anything else my friend. Please try and remember that the next time you have the feeling for an obsessive need to categorize people into a certain place that fits your imagination. Because it might just save your life one day. You never know.

*PS* - When I call the people I am posting about the "Controllers", it's not because I believe that they are somehow separate from the Human Race. In fact, completely the opposite. They are a part of us, right down to our own cores, and our own inner, hidden, rebelliousness against the Father.

It's their actions that I am posting about. Not THEM as Living Entities.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 30, 2007)

I would like to try and cover the subject of Gun Control real quick too because this is one of the last stages before the Controller's attempt to take over our cultures and societies and implement their own agenda on the World's nations.

The issue of People being allowed to own their own guns in this country is something that the Controller's simply can't have if they are to fully exert their New World Order on America. It just can't be tolerated if that is going to happen.

So....just how are the Controllers going to try and take our right to bear arms from us, you might ask. Quite simply, by taking advantage of the fear that is going to come about from the sudden and mysterious "upsurge" in the School shootings that have been taking place around America.

Like I said before, it all boils down to taking our guns away from us in the end, while the Controllers make damn sure well to see to it that they can keep their own. They will not be giving up their weapons, and neither will their organizations they have watching over us. Nope....it will only be the American citizens themselves who will be required, not asked, to give up all their weapons. In so called favor of "World Peace".


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 30, 2007)

Can't people see the trend that is occuring in our country? Look what happens after every shooting. The national news erupts with another segment on gun control telling us how terrible our weapons are. And after people are repeatedly bombarded with this propaganda, the Controller's plan to take advantage of the first Atrocious Massacre that they will play a role in when it occurs in our country. And trust me, behind the scenes, they will have played a very important role.

When this Massacre actually does happen though, it will probably make Astrailia's Port Arthur Massacre look like child's play.

It's all simply a ploy to get guns outlawed here in the United States. The way they Controller's are going to use the school shootings and such to their advantage that is.

You have to remember again folks, that the people who try and call the shots here in our country (the people behind the scenes) have nothing but _time_ on their hands. They don't have real jobs, and they have more money....way more money....than they could ever spend. So, the only thing they do is attempt to control our society by pulling it's strings.

To these guys, information is God.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 30, 2007)

The important thing to remember folks, is that at our core, Humans aren't prone to killing other Humans. They either need an intense amount of provocation, or they need an outside stimulus to urge them on. These kids aren't really killing of their own volition. Look at them, they are like robots, or machines. 

Plus, when you add in the Prozac and Ritalin and all of the messages that are bombarding their already confused, feeble minds, what do you have? Kids who'll kill on command - many of them with a smile on their face. That's whats happening.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 30, 2007)

The Controllers take one force and play it against its direct opposite. Now, when these conflicting forces come together and mesh, a third force, or synthesis, is created from them. This synthesis is then used as force number one, and the process begins all over again. So, when it comes to the school shootings, you have force number one, which is high school bloodbath. Now what would be the opposite?

Whenever there's a disaster, people expect some sort of solution. Now the government, fully aware of our Nature, perpetuates a situation until they can ride in on their white horses and save the day. So, here we have one force - the right to bear arms which represents FREEDOM. And they wish to take that away from us by using Gun Control as the opposite force.

But this example doesn't stop there, for the synthesis becomes force number one to start the process all over again.

The shootings are CHAOS, and it's polar opposite is ORDER, which will occur when, after a particularly horrendous shooting, the government will step in and pass legislation - or ORDER - that results in a new synthesis - laws making it illegal to own firearms.

So there really is a method to this madness after all.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 30, 2007)

Can't people see where this leads? Once we have no weapons, the government can raise our taxes and limit our freedoms because we won't have any way to defend ourselves against their tyranny. On top of that, they also plan on using more and more Mind Control on us, like implants....until we finally reach the point of being....slaves who work for the "Plantation Owner" again and don't get anything in return! Just like in the days of slavery!

The true villian in this scenario isn't even the media, although the people who control it are very complicit in the scheme. The teenagers and the school system are not the villians either folks. The real enemies are those who manipulate the opposing forces behind the scenes. These folks are the Controllers.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 30, 2007)

Did you ever notice how the people in "Control" are always harping on the citizens to surrender their weapons, and yet they never give up _their_ weapons? Do you know what the people of America should be saying to our leaders? We should say to them, since it's such a good idea to be without our guns, why don't _you_ set an example for the rest of us and give _your_ weapons away first? And then, when it's proven that _you_ don't have any arms, then we'll follow suit.

Can't you see the way things always work? Americans are practically the only people left in the whole World who still have the right to bear arms! Just about everywhere else in the World, the government has stripped the citizenry of their right to defend themselves, and yet they always keep _their_ weapons of destruction.

When are people going to open their eyes to what's really going on?


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## Eightball (Jan 31, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Well Eightball, shall we agree to disagree?
> 
> The only thing I have noticed about your rants and raves when you come into this thread is that you like to pass all of the information that I post off as "conspiracy theory".
> 
> ...



You missed the point of my post completely.

In a nut shell, your totally obsessesed with this current issue.  Your spam like posting one after another is indicative of it.

You tell me, I'm overlooking the contents or not interested?  I am interested in this topic, but you're dictionary-thick amount of posting seems to be quelching any and all discourse from others, and I am one of the few that even makes comment here, other than yourself, the topic author.

Either that or folks don't see the dangers that you see.

Are we all blind, and you clearly "see" this impending danger?  Please think about it.  Why aren't we as concerned about this, and jumping in and making this topic the hot one on this forum.  Are we all ignorant, and you have the information?  Are we fiddling grass hoppers and you're the prepared ant?  

There are folks that stand on street corners with signs telling all of us to prepare for the coming end of the world.  Are we/me being indifferent to your insight?  Does your insight or knowledge supercede ours.  Do you see a real danger that we don't see or interpret?

It's possible to mimic "John The Baptist" in a modern era?  

There's a lot of sound, wise, minds that post on this forum, and they aren't taking a great deal of interest in your topic.  Why?  Are you in some way entrusted with the truth and it's ramifications over and above most others?  Think about it.

None of this is intended to be disrespectful.  I'm just probing at you, and trying to get Nuclear Winter to open-up beyond the conspiracy thing........What moves you to post upon post upon post?  You expend a lot of energy typing, and a lot of your time of day.  Is this your God-calling for humanity, or what?  What motivates you to do this?  A love for humanity or what?

Do you see the rest of us as sheeple and the uninformed?

There are many folks in the world that believe they've found the truth, and somehow they must get it out to the masses.  Do you see yourself in that light?

Just wondering?

In finishing, Nuke, how important is your information to humanity?  Knowing what you present, will it make a difference to our lives, in an appreciable way?  If your information is valid, do we, have a way of countering this powerful entity of global makers and shakers?

If the sky is about to fall, is there a way to stop it?
******
Side note:  Are you married?  Have children?  What is your profession?  Just curious.


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## eots (Jan 31, 2007)

Representative Ron Paul Ron Paul, born August 20, 1935 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S. Representative from Texas. On January 11, 2007, Paul filed papers to form an exploratory committee for a presidential run in 2008. This will increase his fundraising opportunities until his presumed eventual anouncement. This first step of running for the Republican nomination is significant because he is not running as a Libertarian like he did nearly two decades ago. 
Paul has the distinction of being opposed to the Iraq War and the interventionist nature of US foreign policy. He is one of 7 Republican congressman who voted against Iraq War authorization in 2003. He has also opposed George W. Bush and the majority of Republican congressmen on many other issues, including the PATRIOT Act. His maverick record on these issues means he may draw support from some surprising circles, including antiwar activists and paleoconservatives

the solution is awarness and to demand change , we give the power and we can take it back


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 31, 2007)

Eightball said:


> You missed the point of my post completely.
> 
> In a nut shell, your totally obsessesed with this current issue.  Your spam like posting one after another is indicative of it.
> 
> ...




Well Eightball. 

I'm glad you are interested in trying to get to know me better. 

I am 23 years old. I am not married, nor do I have children, but I am looking for the right girl and when I find her, I plan on keeping her.

I've kissed a lot of frogs trust me, so when I find my princess I'll know who she is.

As far as why I do this stuff? I do it because I want to help. I want to put whatever effort I can into helping things change for the better. Even if people don't think I have the ability to do that. It matters not. I have a burning fire inside me and it's going to come out regardless. 

lol. I like to look at this thread as a classroom activity Brother. I'll call this class - Screwing America 101. It's got a nice ring to it eh?

Because thats what these people are currently doing. They are screwing our country over. And they have no regrets for what they are doing Eightball. Make no mistake. In fact, they are rather enjoying it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 31, 2007)

It's important for people to remember that the Controllers don't consider themselves Democrats or Republicans. They don't see themselves falling into those "pity categories".

And that's because the Controllers have only one thing in mind - their own individual self interest. In the context of history then, this means that their chief goals are wealth and power. That, my friends, is the way the Controllers work.

But let's get down to the nitty-gritty here. Here's the first lesson that everybody should learn:

The supposed Republican and Democrat battle that we see on TV and read about in the newspapers is a fallacy. It's nothing but an illusion that the Controllers have created to keep people diverted from the Truth.

Hard to believe that hey? As long as the two parties have been around for? But it's true.

Anyone that falls for this trick (including myself in the past) has a limited view of the World. They've been conditioned into believing the Big Lie! It's almost childish how these folks run around saying that the Republicans are to blame for everything, or the Democrats, or that certain members in both of the parties such as Bill Clinton, George Bush, are the problem. They have such foolish outlooks that it becomes ridiculous to watch them playing the Controllers game. Almost like chickens running around with their heads cut off. Of course, the Democrats and the Republicans can be dangerous, but many of them are only the puppets for the REAL power....the hidden power.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 31, 2007)

Do you guys know what the Controller's greatest joy is? It's seeing all these talking heads on TV arguing about the Republicans being right and the Democrats being wrong, or vice versa. What a scam. All they need to do is keep a few "plants" on each of the television and radio stations to perpetuate the ruse, and the meaningless debates will continue forever.

It's all a put on. There's no effective difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. It's all a fallacy. Especially when they reach the upper echelon of power. Do you think it really mattered if George Bush or John Kerry won the election? The Controllers own both of them. They're bought and paid for. Hell, by the next election, the Controllers will probably have the entire voting system rigged so it doesn't matter who you vote for because the outcome will already be predetermined.

If the Controllers can make everyone so disgusted with the current system, they'll flock to online voting. This will completely eliminate the possibility of an outsider entering the Oval Office. You have to figure it's a helluva lot easier to control a few computer programmers than it is a countless number of volunteers working at the fire hall or county courthouse.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 31, 2007)

Folks, politics on a national level is nothing more than professional wrestling. Both of them have predetermined outcomes, and they suck people in with a bunch of phony dramatics. That's why the Controllers believe that the people can never learn about Votescam until it's too late. What they want to do is keep people divided....to keep them fighting among themselves. That's why they keep polarizing the populace with superficial issues like social security, campaign finance reform, or whether to keep our borders open or closed. And ya know what? So far, it has always worked.

The Controllers laugh like crazy at all of us when we battle against each other when in reality we should be focusing on the real enemy - THEM! If we really saw who was manipulating our lives, then they'd never be able to keep pushing ahead with their agenda. If we really saw them for who they are, we'd run them out of town in a second. And then guess what would happen? We'd be able to increase our freedom, keep our money, govern ourselves, and rise on the scale of understanding and truth. But, no, no, no, the Controllers don't want any of those things.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 31, 2007)

So the Controllers keep creating new conflicts and phony issues that split people apart and divert our attention away from them. They get us all so enraged that we actually start to hate each other. Look at the environmentalists versus the businessmen, or the abortionists versus the right-to-lifers. These people rip each other to shreds like dogs. It's sick. 

If you really want to know how depraved the Controllers can be, take a look at war. They sit in their insulated offices in Washington, D.C. and send our kids into the jungles and deserts to kill each other....all the while filling the folks back home with so much propaganda that we're standing on the sidelines cheering them on! Can you believe it? Can you believe what they are getting away with?

The Controllers will create an emergency out of thin air to get rid of a troublemaker who threatens their power base, and then manipulate US into doing the dirty work for them. And when it's all been said and done, they'll use those wars to secure their stronghold and become even more powerful and dictatorial. 

And all the while our attention is being diverted from what's really going on.


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## 8236 (Jan 31, 2007)

AAAARRRGGGHHHHH! This is madness!!!!! Overflow - Does Not Compute - Division By Zero - Error ,Error

U got enough here for a book - just try and find a publisher


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## eots (Jan 31, 2007)

8236 said:


> AAAARRRGGGHHHHH! This is madness!!!!! Overflow - Does Not Compute - Division By Zero - Error ,Error
> 
> U got enough here for a book - just try and find a publisher



it would appear as if truth acts like a corrosive agent on your mind
try smaller doses until you gain a tolerance .like just reading a paragraph a day


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

Ok so here's a little quiz for you guys....

During every Federal election, do the networks and major newspapers actually send their own reporters and researchers into polling places, scrambling to discern who the potential winners will be so they can be the first to "scoop" their competitors with the election results?

ANSWER: NO!

The networks don't compete for vote totals. CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN and FOX all belong to VNS - the "Voter News Service", which is a consortium of mass media conglomerates that have pooled their resources and have the exclusive right (bestowed by Congress) to count the votes in every state. _None of them compete for these votes!_ They all come from the same source - VNS - located at 225 W. 34th Street in New York City. 

In other words, when you watch the "drama" on each of the network broadcasts where they're frantically scrambling to be the first to announce a winner, it's nothing but an illusion. A lie!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

VNS compiles ALL the data from every election; then posts it simultaneously for each network, plus the major newspapers. SIMULTANEOUSLY. Which means what? Which means that THEY ALL GET IT AT THE SAME EXACT TIME!

In fact, both _Time_ Magazine (March 2, 1992) and Margaret Sims of the "Federal Elections Commission Report (1994) reported that the six primary members of this group (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, and AP) received the EXACT same "exit poll" information at the same time and from the same company. 

Folks, that's why these networks can declare a winner in a multitlude of races only one minute after the polls close. The Associated Press (June 1, 2001 page A04) even reported that the above six media organizations renewed their contract with VNS despite the overwhelming corruption of the 2000 presidential election.


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## LuvRPgrl (Feb 3, 2007)

Someone may have already asked this, but I dont have the time to read all 81 pages. Why would China want to go to war with us?

These arguements put forth by doomsdayers and conspiratists have so many holes they wouldnt hold air. Its just downright silly.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

Do you see what's happening right here? It's all professional wrestling. So why doesn't any major news reporter admit to the American public on election night that there is no drama, no scrambling for data, and no heated competition among them for the election results? You tell me...because it all comes from the same source. 

So the answer, regrettably, is that this frantic "professional wrestling" scenario is a technique or excuse that is needed to steal your vote.

And if this is the case, some may ask, why haven't we heard about it before? The answer, quite simply, is that you should have because there are plenty of influential people in the media who know about it, but are simply covering for the the Controllers. 

I mean lets be real here folks. The people involved with the media HAVE TO BE aware of votescam. How could they not be? They are either willingly or unwillingly a part of it. And their silence is unforgivable.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

Ok so before delving into all this stuff, let's take a few case histories that we can take a good hard look at in order to prove the problems confronting us, but also to find a way to correct this situation. A kill 2 birds with 1 stone kinda thing.

For example, in the 1970 Dade County, Florida election, Jim and Ken Collier, authors of _Votescam_, found that three minutes after the poles had closed, all of the major networks had already projected the winners in over 250 races! Only one minute after the polls had closed, Channel 7 projected that a certain candidate would not only win, but would receive 96,499 total votes. Well, when the official results were returned, guess how many votes this candidate received? -- 96,499. Channel 7 was 100% accurate only one minute after the voting had ended!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

The question we should all be asking ourselves is: How can the networks not only be so accurate, but arrive at these startling projections one to three minutes after the polls close? Think about it. After the voting stations close at 9:00 PM, what needs to be done? Tens of thousands of punch card ballots need to be collected; then they must be fed into a punch card reader.

To read even a few drawers of cards is quite an ordeal, considering all the misfeeds, jams, ect. And after all the cards are read, the data needs to be compiled, organized, printed out, and then transmitted to the television station where it'll be prepped for broadcast. Do you really believe that all of those steps can be completed in one-to-three minutes? Yeah right.


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## Annie (Feb 3, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> The question we should all be asking ourselves is: How can the networks not only be so accurate, but arrive at these startling projections one to three minutes after the polls close? Think about it. After the voting stations close at 9:00 PM, what needs to be done? Tens of thousands of punch card ballots need to be collected; then they must be fed into a punch card reader.
> 
> To read even a few drawers of cards is quite an ordeal, considering all the misfeeds, jams, ect. And after all the cards are read, the data needs to be compiled, organized, printed out, and then transmitted to the television station where it'll be prepped for broadcast. Do you really believe that all of those steps can be completed in one-to-three minutes? Yeah right.



You mean like in 2000?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

The Collier Brothers found it very implausible, so they went to Channel 7 and tried to track down the "super computer" that made these projections only one-to-three minutes after the polls closed, all with 99-100% accuracy. But the first thing they wanted to know was which reporter called in the raw totals to the television studio. They were told that it wasn't a reporter, after all, but a member of the League of Women Voters.

Since only a handful of reporters could be out in the field (considering that this was only an affiliate station), it would seem logical that only a few precincts could be sampled. But how, they wondered, could 99% of the precincts be reporting by 11:00 - only two hours after the polls closed? The League of Women Voters must have been incredibly efficient. 

So, the Colliers visited Joyce Deiffenderfer, head of the local League of Women Voters, and asked for a list of all the people who had counted votes on election night (since Channel 7 said that's where they got their results). Realizing that the cat was out of the bag, Ms. Deiffenderfer, in tears, admitted that there weren't _any_ League of Women Voter members in _any_ of the precincts that night. They hadn't counted a single vote, and she said that she didn't "want to get caught up in this thing".


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> You mean like in 2000?



This is a different example all-together. Trust me, there are many to go off of. But I only need a few to make this point clear.


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## Annie (Feb 3, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> This is a different example all-together. Trust me, there are many to go off of. But I only need a few to make this point clear.



right.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

Hmmmm.....so within three minutes of the poll's closing, the TV station had projections that were 99-100&#37; accurate, and within two hours, 99% of all the precincts had supposedly reported their results. But it's funny because no one was able to locate the super computer that made the fabulous projections. Nor could anyone be found that even counted or reported the vote counts! I wonder where all the numbers came from?

Another example would be that in 1973, in Florida, Printomatic Voting Machines had been installed to make the entire process run smoother. All of the Printomatic devices have a locked area in back that every election supervisor is supposed to check before the election to insure that all the wheels were set at zero. But all of the keys had been taken away from the supervisors, so none of the totals could be verified. Shortly after the polls opened, the paper rolls began to jam in all the machines, making them inoperable.

Since no one could vote, the backs of each device were eventually opened, and when the paper rollers were pulled out, they all had the final vote totals already printed on them at seven o'clock in the morning! Needless to say, every election volunteer walked off the job.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

And folks, if you think that voter fraud only happened during Al Capone's Chicago days, you're seriously mistaken. Here are a few other "tricks of the trade" that these people who run the polls know about:


*1.* Shave the wheels in the back of a voting device so that they skip ahead.

*2.* Before the polls open, unlock the back of a voting device and set the total counters ahead for a certain candidate. 

*3.* If a clear ballot box isn't used, stuff it with pre-punched vote cards before the polls open.

*4.* If a computerized machine is used, unplug it or turn it off so all the previous totals are erased.

*5.* Finally, the League of Women Voters has been captured on _videotape_ in Florida with pencils and tweezers punching out cards for certain candidates, then shoving them into ballot boxes.


And the list can go on and on.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

Another example is during the 1996 Republican Party Primary, where Pat Robertson was beating every other candidate in the early stages of the race, especially Bob Dole and Steve Forbes. Then when he rolled into Arizona with high hopes of another victory that would catapult him toward getting his party's nomination, something very strange happened. The computers broke down!

Yes, VNS had actually declared Buchanan the winner. Karen Johnson, Buchanan's Arizona State Coordinator, got a call from Governor Fife Symington congradulating her on what he called a "decisive" victory. Senator John Mccain also drafted a congradulatory letter, while all three networks and CNN said that Dole would definately finish third, while Forbes took second, and Buchanan won.

Then the computers mysteriously went down. When they came back up, guess what happened? Pat Buchanan ended up a distant third, while Bob Dole won!

When asked about this phenomenon, Buchanan joked about the computers (referring to the "fix" being in), when he said that "They seemed to work better after they brought 'em back!"


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 3, 2007)

As mentioned, VNS is the only American company that counts votes in EVERY Federal election. Ponder this point for a moment. A faceless corporation that at least 95% of the American population probably doesn't even know about or have ever even heard of, is responsible for tabulating our votes. 

This service was created by the Big Six in 1964 - one year after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, and it is currently run by ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, and AP. Over the years, VNS has gone through a variety of name changes and it was originally called NES (News Election Services).

When you consider the ramifications of every Presidential , Congressional, and Gubernatorial race, you'll see that VNS is one of the most influential corporations in America. And yet, not many people have ever heard of it before.

How can such a fantastic responsibility be placed in the hands of a company that was developed by a consortium of corporate media conglomerates? The most glaring observation one could make from this situation is: if a faceless, unknown agency (VNS) is the sole vote counter rather than accountable local volunteers in each precinct, is it conceivable that a wealthy politician or political party could clandestinely pay them off to rig an election? 

The answer is obvious, especially when so many of the American people don't even know about the existence of VNS.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 5, 2007)

*Robert H. Lande, Professor of Law at the University of Baltimore in a letter (dated October 22, 2000) to the United States Justice Department and the Federal Trade Commission on behalf of the American Antitrust Institute, said:*

"The Government should file suit to break up the VNS (Voter News Service). Why the uniformity of wrong results? This can be explained by a lack of competition. All of the "competing" major networks are actually colluding with one another, and they call their collusion the VNS. If the six largest manufacturers of automobiles, canned food, or aluminum decided to close existing operations and pool resources to save money, the antitrust enforcement agencies would be after them immediately."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 5, 2007)

On Monday, November 2, 1988, the night _before_ the off-year elections, ABC News posted hundreds of election results - one whole day before a single person ever placed a vote!!!!!

Now that we know the networks, CNN, FOX, and AP all get their election results from the same source - VNS - we need to ask ourselves, why is there such an emphasis on speed? Speed is the key, at least where the networks are concerned. Why? Because the illusion of reporting "speedy" results is the second piece of the puzzle needed to steal an election.

Here's the typical scenario:

A news anchor appears on your TV screen at one minute after the hour....one minute after the polls have closed in a certain part of the country. Naturally, he'll already have some "projections", and he'll even announce some winners - one minute after the polls close.

So they'll rack up their totals, show who is ahead; and focus their attention on one last intangible....those races that are "too close to call". And once you hear those words, you know you're in trouble. Because this is where there is an artificial huge gap in reporting - the lag time - when the news anchor talks to all his "boys" to get their expert opinion. 

Of course, not once is the news anchor going to mention that all of their results are coming from VNS. That information isn't important enough for the American people to know I guess.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 5, 2007)

Then after all that make-believe Bullshit...., what does the news anchor do next folks?

All of a sudden, one of two things happen. First, there are either some "technical difficulties", or else the computer breaks down. 

If you don't believe that, think back to the Florida debacle in 2000. After awhile the network head will report either a huge landslide of results with one candidate pulling way ahead, or else the "difficulty" was corrected and there was a drastic turnaround in votes, with the candidate in front falling far behind, or vise versa. 

But speed is the key ingredient. While the polling place is closing down one minute after the hour and punch cards or computer data is being transferred to country headquarters, then onward to VNS, none of it can be verified or made official.

A perfect example would be the 2000 Iowa caucus. With over 2,000 polling places, the AP announced a winner one minute after the caucus had _opened_ (not closed) and not one vote had been cast.

Think about how absurd these examples are people. ABC news is reporting election results a day _before_ an election, and the AP is announcing winners before any votes are not only analyzed, but even cast!


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## Eightball (Feb 6, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Then after all that make-believe Bullshit...., what does the news anchor do next folks?
> 
> All of a sudden, one of two things happen. First, there are either some "technical difficulties", or else the computer breaks down.
> 
> ...



Uh Huh  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 6, 2007)

Eightball said:


> Uh Huh  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................




lol. Glad to see you were able to write this in your sleep Eightball.

That's what I'm talkin about. Sleep talkin.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 6, 2007)

The first ingredient needed to assure the "desired results" from a particular election is the use of polls and exit polls. Before I continue, I'd like to make one thing perfectly clear.

THE POLL RESULTS THAT YOU SEE ON THE NIGHTLY NEWS AND IN YOUR LOCAL PAPER ON A DAILY BASIS ARE NOTHING BUT A CONDITIONING TOOL USED TO MAKE THE GENERAL PUBLIC THINK THE _PROPER_ WAY.

In other words, the supposed polls you see every night on the World News do nothing but mold opinion, not mirror it. The concept is similar to the psychological test in which 20 "plants" are told to say that a certain flashcard is colored red, when in reality it is purple. When the 21st person is finally asked what color the card is, they've been so conditioned to think its purple (because every one else said so), that they go against their own natural inclinations and answer incorrectly.

Actually, a more appropriate psychological term for this process is called "psychic driving". To acclimate the voting public on how they're supposed to react, a specific message is repeatedly hammered into their heads on a daily basis.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 6, 2007)

Are you starting to see how this little game is played? First we're set-up with "public-opinion" polls, which are nothing but an outright farce, and do not in any way indicate how we truly feel. All the numbers are cooked! But this con job plays a very important role by getting us "ready" for who the Controllers have decided will win in a particular election.

After the stage has been set by repeatedly saying that candidate X is ahead in the polls by 10 points (even though they may only have a 20% favorable rating by the voting public), we are now ready for stage two - the lightning fast projections and "exit poll" results.

Exit polls, I hope you know by now, are even shadier than the pre-election surveys. Why? Because it's one last chance to condition the public and prepare them for who the "winner" will be. (As a side note, exit polls also play a large part in lessening the impact that voters in western states play in determining who will ultimately emerge as the victor.)


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 6, 2007)

As we have already discovered, none of the networks "scramble" to get election results. It's all part of the show folks. All of their information comes from the exact same source at the exact same time - VNS. They have already admitted this fact, although they do so as quietly as possible. Then, within one minute of the polls closing, the networks project a winner based on exit polls that are startling in their accuracy (with only 1% of the vote actually in).

The next logical question to ask at this point is - if the networks aren't running around frantically doing election-day exit polling, then who is? The answer - an outfit called VRS - Voter Research Surveys. Now, try and guess who operates VRS? ............................ If you guessed VNS, you are absolutely right! Because it's the same Big Six media conglomerates that run VNS who run VRS!

And there is even supposed to be an organization that is "supposably" overlooking VNS to make sure everything is done lawfully. It's called the NCCP - National Council of Public Polls. But here's the kicker folks. lol. Guess who owns the NCCP? You got it. It's the same damn media members who founded VNS! And they are the ones who run the NCCP, which is an organization that they created, to "Overlook" themselves. lol. What a crock of shit folks.

How trustworthy do you think that sounds? The VRS is owned by the VNS and they are the ones who are supposably researching all the facts. And the organization that is supposed to be overlooking these things to make sure everything is done properly, is owned by the very people it is overlooking.

Would you tell on yourself if you were doing illegal things with the public's election process? lol. I doubt it. So what makes you think that they would? It's a joke.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 6, 2007)

So all of this seems pritty darn convenient huh? And between the networks, VNS, VRS, and NCCP, we have polls, exit polls, then finally those remarkable projections that are almost always right on the mark. But how can their estimates always be so close to what the final "tabulated" results are? That's easy. All the election supervisors have to do is doctor the computer numbers to match the exit polls; then they come up with what was already a pre-determined result in the first place.

How do you think we keep getting all these asinine politicians in office folks (the same ones who stay there for years)? Do you think it was because we wanted it that way? lol. Especially when almost everybody dislikes them? We sure as hell aren't voting for them (at least if there's another choice).

The picture is becoming a little clearer every day.


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## Annie (Feb 7, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> So all of this seems pritty darn convenient huh? And between the networks, VNS, VRS, and NCCP, we have polls, exit polls, then finally those remarkable projections that are almost always right on the mark. But how can their estimates always be so close to what the final "tabulated" results are? That's easy. All the election supervisors have to do is doctor the computer numbers to match the exit polls; then they come up with what was already a pre-determined result in the first place.
> 
> How do you think we keep getting all these asinine politicians in office folks (the same ones who stay there for years)? Do you think it was because we wanted it that way? lol. Especially when almost everybody dislikes them? We sure as hell aren't voting for them (at least if there's another choice).
> 
> The picture is becoming a little clearer every day.



Not so clear to me, though how many pages have you used?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 7, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Not so clear to me, though how many pages have you used?



Or perhaps you just haven't been paying enough attention.


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## Annie (Feb 7, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Or perhaps you just haven't been paying enough attention.



Could be, but unlikely.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 8, 2007)

In an election totally free of fraud, citizens would hand-write their votes on paper ballots, place them in a clear box; then watch as an impartial group of volunteers counted their votes in full view. The results would then be posted at the polling place before being shopped to the county courthouse.

With computerized voting, however, we simply send a "blip" through cyberspace. There is no paper trail (a physical ballot), nor are there any checks and balances. We're simply told to trust those in charge of the election and that everything will be ok. Considering the evidence I've provided thus far, how much faith does that inspire in you?

What if we found that it's possible to manipulate these computerized unseen results to "correspond" to the projections (also doctored) that were given one minute after the polls closed so that everything would be _official_? What if someone told you - "Hey, it'd be very easy to find a computer programmer who could write some software that would already determine the winner regardless of the vote totals"? The procedure wouldn't be much more difficult to pull off than placing a paper roller into the back of a Printomatic voting machine that already had the totals pre-printed on them.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 8, 2007)

Now I'm sure someone will say that this notion is preposterous! To prove that the process isn't corrupt, all the software designers have to do is show you the "source code" from their program. How complicated could it be to write a program that simply counts votes? Any tenth grade kid who has taken an introductory course in computer science could write it. 

But guess what? Numerous researchers have tried to inspect the computer software at VNS. But instead of gladly allowing them to do so (these are fair and open elections, aren't they?) VNS flatly denied their requests, saying that their programs were "trade secrets". In other words, their software is afforded the same protection as any other corporate trade software.

To me, though, the same rationale doesn't apply for two reasons. 

First, a privately owned  for-profit company is much different from one that is very influential in determining who will assume the Presidency and a large number of Congressional seats.

My second argument is just as straightforward: What do these software designers have to hide?

They haven't created programs that prevent America from being bombed by incoming ballistic missiles like those used at NORAD. The only thing (supposedly) their software does is count votes. Why all the secrecy? Why don't they want anyone inspecting their source codes?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 8, 2007)

On the night before the 1988 Presidential election, the following conversation took place on the CBS Evening News:

_*Dan Rather:*_ "Realistically, could the fix be put on in a national election?"

*Howard J. Strauss* *(Computer expert - Princeton University):* "Get me a job with a company that writes the software for this program. Then I'd have access to one-third of the votes. Is that enough to fix a general election?"

Mr Strauss also has said, "When it comes to computerized elections, there are no safeguards. It's not a door without locks; it's a house without doors."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 8, 2007)

*Judge Richard Niehouse, in a 1985 ruling against the Cincinnati Board of Elections:*

"There is no adequate and proper safeguard against the computers being programmed to distort the election results."


*Eva Waskell, an election researcher for over ten years, weighed in with this observation:*

"One major problem is that computer codes that run the machines are protected as trade secrets, which makes it very hard to have an election independently audited." She also added, "The election industry is virtually unregulated. There are no mandatory regulations or standards for accurately recording and counting votes."


*Craig C. Donsanto, Deputy Attorney in the Justice Department, warned us in a July 4, 1989 edition of the Los Angeles Times:*

"You have to have access to some degree of technical knowledge to penetrate an electronic tabulating system. Most of them have been or will be....simply because voting is the way we determine who gets power in this country."

*The following is a quote from the same Los Angeles Times article on voter fraud (7-4-89):* 

"Some critics of computerized vote counting worry about the potential for "trapdoors", "time bombs" and "Trojan Horses". A computer operator with the correct password could place a trapdoor, or a series of hidden vote counting instructions inside the system, according to _Election Watch Report_. Once into the system, the operator could program the computer to count votes for one candidate as votes for another. After the votes have been changed to swing the election, the trapdoor could be closed."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 8, 2007)

*In a letter, Attorney Ellis Rubin (3-24-92) described to Attorney General William Barr how to rig computerized voting:*

"Anyone with access codes could punch into elections and change the results...and nobody would be the wiser. That also goes for the software involved."


As you can readily see, many people from different walks of life are worried about the real dangers associated with computerized voting. It's clear that we've opened a Pandora's Box. The only question now - is it too late to close the lid, or have all the evils already escaped?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 9, 2007)

One question that I have for ALL of you guys on this board.

DO YOU TRUST THE CORPORATE MEDIA IN THIS COUNTRY TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST AND FORTHRIGHT WITH YOU?

If you answered yes to this question, than you don't need to read any further because you obviously don't think we have a problem with the type of information that the citizens of this country are receiving.

But if you answered in the negative, all I can say is this, if the media isn't being 100% honest with you in regard to the information it disseminates, then how can we trust them with something as important as counting the votes in all of our major elections?

Think for a moment to whom we've given this responsibility. Believe me; the people who run the show aren't stupid. In fact, they're brilliant in their ingenious deceitfulness. And until we call them on it, they're going to keep snowing us like they've always done.


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## CrimsonWhite (Feb 9, 2007)

Good god. I haven't been on this board in two months. In that time the board has sold, It looks completely different, but this shithead is still not making any sense.


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## eots (Feb 9, 2007)

Report says Pentagon manipulated intel By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
43 minutes ago



Pentagon officials undercut the intelligence community in the run-up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq by insisting in briefings to the White House that there was a clear relationship between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida, the Defense Department's inspector general said Friday.

Acting Inspector General Thomas F. Gimble told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the office headed by former Pentagon policy chief Douglas J. Feith took "inappropriate" actions in advancing conclusions on al-Qaida connections not backed up by the nation's intelligence agencies.

Gimble said that while the actions of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy "were not illegal or unauthorized," they "did not provide the most accurate analysis of intelligence to senior decision makers" at a time when the White House was moving toward war with Iraq.

"I can't think of a more devastating commentary," said Armed Services Committee Chairman Sen. Carl Levin (news, bio, voting record), D-Mich.

He cited Gimble's findings that Feith's office was, despite doubts expressed by the intelligence community, pushing conclusions that Sept. 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta had met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague five months before the attack, and that there were "multiple areas of cooperation" between Iraq and al-Qaida, including shared pursuit of weapons of mass destruction.

"That was the argument that was used to make the sale to the American people about the need to go to war," Levin said in an interview Thursday. He said the Pentagon's work, "which was wrong, which was distorted, which was inappropriate ... is something which is highly disturbing."

Rep. Ike Skelton (news, bio, voting record), D-Mo., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said Friday the report "clearly shows that Doug Feith and others in that office exercised extremely poor judgment for which our nation, and our service members in particular, are paying a terrible price."

Republicans on the panel disagreed. Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla., said the "probing questions" raised by Feith's policy group improved the intelligence process.

"I'm trying to figure out why we are here," said Sen. Saxby Chambliss (news, bio, voting record), R-Ga., saying the office was doing its job of analyzing intelligence that had been gathered by the CIA and other intelligence agencies.

Gimble responded that at issue was that the information supplied by Feith's office in briefings to the National Security Council and the office of Vice President Dick Cheney was "provided without caveats" that there were varying opinions on its reliability.

Gimble's report said Feith's office had made assertions "that were inconsistent with the consensus of the intelligence community."

At the White House, spokesman Dana Perino said President Bush has revamped the U.S. spy community to try avoiding a repeat of flawed intelligence affecting policy decisions by creating a director of national intelligence and making other changes.

"I think what he has said is that he took responsibility, and that the intel was wrong, and that we had to take measures to revamp the intel community to make sure that it never happened again," Perino told reporters.

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman denied that the office was producing its own intelligence products, saying they were challenging what was coming in from intelligence-gathering professionals, "looking at it with a critical eye."

Some Democrats also have contended that Feith misled Congress about the basis of the administration's assertions on the threat posed by Iraq, but the Pentagon investigation did not support that.

In a telephone interview Thursday, Levin said the IG report is "very damning" and shows a Pentagon policy shop trying to shape intelligence to prove a link between al-Qaida and Saddam.

Levin in September 2005 had asked the inspector general to determine whether Feith's office's activities were appropriate, and if not, what remedies should be pursued.

The 2004 report from the Sept. 11 commission found no evidence of a collaborative relationship between Saddam and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terror organization before the U.S. invasion. 

Asked to comment on the IG's findings, Feith said in a telephone interview that he had not seen the report but was pleased to hear that it concluded his office's activities were neither illegal nor unauthorized. He took strong issue, however, with the finding that some activities had been "inappropriate." 

"The policy office has been smeared for years by allegations that its pre-Iraq-war work was somehow 'unlawful' or 'unauthorized' and that some information it gave to congressional committees was deceptive or misleading," said Feith, who left his Pentagon post in August 2005. 

Feith called "bizarre" the inspector general's conclusion that some intelligence activities by the Office of Special Plans, which was created while Feith served as the undersecretary of defense for policy  the top policy position under then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld  were inappropriate but not unauthorized.



Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 9, 2007)

In the 1988 presidential election, CBS was the first to call George Bush the winner at 9:17 PM - only 17 minutes after the polls closed, with voting stations still open in the western states.

What I'd like to know is - why the rush? We elect the president in early November, and he's not inaugurated until mid-January - over two months later. Why do we need to prematurely announce a winner after only 17 minutes!??? It takes county officials at least a month to verify all the vote totals. Are we SO greedy for results that we're willing to sacrifice the very sanctity of our democratic process for the "ruse" of speed that the networks are leading us to believe?

Look at what we've done. We've handed over the reponsibility to a snakelike beast. Plus, to add insult to injury, 60% of all the votes in this country are now classified as "computerized votes". That means we can't see them or physically count them....we have to simply TRUST that VNS does everything properly in their "invisible" little clandestine world.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 9, 2007)

Ok so with the above premise in mind folks, I'm going to let you in on one of the most crucial secrets of our current age. Here it is:

Do you know what scares the hell out of the "Controllers" more than anything?

Answer: That a "renegade" candidate will emerge on the scene who rallies and inspires the people to such an extent that he or she steamrolls into the Presidency and EXPOSES the Big Lie! The Controllers spend practically every waking moment trying to prevent this scenario. Because, you see, if this maverick candidate gets into office, the whole house of cards will tumble.

It'll be EXACTLY like the Wizard of Oz. Do you remember how feeble, horrified and in awe Dorothy and her cohorts were when they first entered Oz? The entirety of this huge, cumbersome, all-encompassing kingdom literally reduced them to trembling little saps.

But then the veil was removed. And after that, the Wizard would never be able to rule over them with such terrifying brilliance as before.

The Controllers will do anything in their power to keep from being exposed. And I'll tell ya; it wouldn't take much to do the job. Think about it - a candidate who is truly "of, for, and by the people" would go on TV and say, "Guess what. These guys have been deceiving you for years; here's how."

Then this renegade would go down the line and say, "This is a lie, this is a lie, this is a lie, this is a lie.....and here is how we're going to change things."

From that point forward, heads would start rolling and the Controllers, who have been plotting and deceiving us for at least a century or more, would stand like horrified deer in the headlights of a locomotive as their con job was brought out into the open.


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## Annie (Feb 9, 2007)

onthefence said:


> Good god. I haven't been on this board in two months. In that time the board has sold, It looks completely different, but this shithead is still not making any sense.



LOL! Which one? Uh, don't call names, but glad to see you back!


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## CrimsonWhite (Feb 9, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> LOL! Which one? Uh, don't call names, but glad to see you back!



Congrats on the promotion. I'm glad I finally have more time to get on here. I've missed this board.


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## Annie (Feb 9, 2007)

onthefence said:


> Congrats on the promotion. I'm glad I finally have more time to get on here. I've missed this board.



Thanks!


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## eots (Feb 9, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Thanks!



-kathianne this thread is for serious mined people out to defeat the new world order. maybe you and you playmate could find a more appropriate place for this thanks


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## Annie (Feb 9, 2007)

eots said:


> -kathianne this thread is for serious mined people out to defeat the new world order. maybe you and you playmate could find a more appropriate place for this thanks



Maybe, then again, it's over. *smack*


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 10, 2007)

The above scenario about the renegade candidate getting into office is the key to what's happening in the World right now. The Controllers obsess over every aspect of keeping the lid on their scam - from newscasts to mind control to elections. The thought of a renegade candidate who cares about the people and tells them the truth makes them wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, shivering with fear. All it would take is ONE stinking revelation of truth and the whole game is over. Do you get it?!!!! If given the opportunity, one person CAN change the World. If this candidate did speak to us, the Controller's vision of a One World hellish government would go down the drain in a heartbeat.

To combat this scenario from ever coming to fruition, the Controllers need to do one thing - NEVER allow one of those renegade candidates to get into office. So what do they do? They know how sick everyone is of their corrupt "two-party" system. Actually, it's nothing more than one snake with two-heads. So, they rig the election process. This is how the system currently operates. If punch card ballots are used, then after everyone votes and the polls close, the "results" are either taken to county headquarters or shipped directly to VNS....without verification. If voting is done by computer, then the machines are linked directly to the VNS super-computers via phone lines so that they can "interact". Then, minutes after the polls close, the networks project a winner based on supposed exit polls.

Within a day or so everything's swept under the rug, and then they have a month or two to make the actual results jive with the "projections". This, my friends, is called a "fix".


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 10, 2007)

Now, get this. The Florida "hanging chad" debacle in the 2000 presidential election was vitally important for one very calculated reason. It made the voters so sick of punch card ballots that sometime soon a politician in Washington D.C. will come out and claim that they are going to "save" us all by sponsoring a bill that will put computers into _every_ polling place across America. By touting how easy, fast, and reliable these computers are, they'll get the propaganda machine rolling and try to convince us all that this idea will be our salvation.

But when you look past their veil of lies, here's what will happen to put the "fix" in. As things stand now (especially with punch cards or hand ballots), it still takes an enormous amount of people to be corrupted. It takes election supervisors, volunteers, ect. But if we switch to 100% computerized voting, think how easy it'll be to "throw" an election. You'd only need to bribe or pay off one or two programmers in the whole country instead of countless county and party officials.

With one centralized computer existing in an invisible realm with programs that can't be checked due to "trade secrets", we'll never actually have a chance to see our ballots first-hand. We'll simply push a button, send our vote through cyberspace, and then place our TRUST in VNS, sleazy programmers, and the corporate media.


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## mattskramer (Feb 11, 2007)

That reminds me of the cartoon in which a little old lady looks up from her butterfly-ballot and shouts BINGO.  I think that to the hurried and careless voter, the ballot may be momentarily confusing, but if voters, who bother to take the time and trouble to vote, would have carefully read and followed the instructions, there would have been practically no difficulty at all.


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## eots (Feb 11, 2007)

mattskramer said:


> That reminds me of the cartoon in which a little old lady looks up from her &#8220;butterfly-ballot&#8221; and shouts &#8220;BINGO&#8221;.  I think that to the hurried and careless voter, the ballot may be momentarily confusing, but if voters, who bother to take the time and trouble to vote, would have carefully read and followed the instructions, there would have been practically no difficulty at all.



this ridiculous assessment of voting machines reminds me of a cartoon
its called GOOFY


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 11, 2007)

eots said:


> this ridiculous assessment of voting machines reminds me of a cartoon
> its called GOOFY



lol. Slow down there killer.

From the looks of it, Matt was simply trying to defend written ballots, and is obviously against the idea of going 100% computerized. Or should I say, invisible.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are some good solutions for all this nonsense:


*1.* Instantly abolish VNS and exit polling.

*2.* If the networks insist on perpetrating the status quo in light of the potential (and outright evidence of) voter fraud, then we should all bring charges of criminal negligence, fraud, and abuse of trust against them; also, we should revoke their broadcast license.

*3.* If that course of action doesn't work, then we should convict them on the RICO Act for racketeering and conspiracy. The American people could bring a class-action lawsuit against them (similar to the tobacco company cases) for unduly influencing the outcome of an election. If we don't inherently trust the information being fed to us by the networks and corporate media due to their constant lies and manipulation, how can we place our faith in them to be honest with something as important as the election process?

*4.* We should require positive picture I.D. when voting.

*5.* We should allow ONLY American citizens to vote.

*6.* We should change the voting day to Saturday.

*7.* All the results should be tabulated, verified, and confirmed at EACH POLLING PLACE before they are sent to the county courthouse.


And that's it folks! That's all we would need to do. No rigging, no hanging chads, no telephone lines or unverifiable hidden computer programs. This is all we need to do to put the election of public officials back into the people's hands.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 11, 2007)

So the big question now guys, is this. Do we want to take these rather simple steps, or do we want to allow the networks and VNS to keep operating as usual? If we do nothing, I GUARANTEE that the long-awaited candidate who tells us the truth may never be given an opportunity to speak. Instead, we'll be stuck with the same crooked politicians that have already sickened us to no end.

Here's the bottom line: The corporate media has to tow a fine line between perpetuating the Controller's lies and trying to maintain their credibility. If we quit believing them, guess what? The show is over! They've lost their ability to influence us any longer.

The media has already lost their credibility if you ask me. But we can finally see through their lies. The Wizard of Oz has been exposed!

Are we going to keep letting them snow us, or will we take steps to elect that candidate who will level with us and get rid of all the corruption? Time is running out. 

The New World Order isn't something that's going to happen in the "future". It's already here! It's now or never. Taking back our vote is the first step toward taking back our country.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 11, 2007)

*"Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."*

Joseph Stalin


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## Eightball (Feb 12, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> *"Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."*
> 
> Joseph Stalin



You trust no one............what a sad state of life.

Guess my stay-at-home, Mom who was a volunteer poll worker back in the 1950's in our neighborhood for a couple years, was also one of those who decided those who would be elected.

Some how I never pictured my Mom as being one of the conspirators?  She just greeted folks, helped them sign-in to vote, and stayed to ungodly hours after the polls closed working for nothing at all, but to be a contributing American citizen.
******
Nuke:  As long as humans exist, there will be some good apples and bad apples in the barrel.  We will catch some and some will get away, and spoil more barrels of apples if they can.

Conspirators will exist in realitym but many more will exist in the the over-active, anxious minds of others.

As one famous stateman said a few years before your birth.  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." FDR,,,,,,,No doubt you have a conspiratorial file on him to? 

Your dictionary sized posts has just exuded with fear of fear itself.

If there are a few good honest men and women to be found, I'm concerned that you couldn't trust them anymore than if they were obvious conspirators of some sort.  

Your fears/concerns for our country have consumed you, to such a point that you are completely singular in your focus.  Some balance is needed.  Can you take the time to metaphorically, "smell the roses", or is that too much of a distraction from your calling?

Speaking of callings, your posting seems to resemble one.  Who or what inspired you to call out in such piety, and honesty to the rest of us misinformed, duped, and doomed individuals?

I've never thought that a person could be so consumed with suspicion of human societal life in the conspiratorial vein, that it could far exceed magnitude of my very sick, manic, brother-in-law.  My brother-in-law lives a pauper's existence in a little run-down mobile trailer in the Sierra Mountains of California, and he boards-up his front door each night fearing that the FBI, CIA, or the Men in Black will come charging in and accost him.  He fears that there's electronic bugs all over his crumbling mobile home.  He's certain that there are special spies of some government entity that are watching him in the super market when he's buying Asparagus.  The poor guy is absolutely worn-out from being scared of being scared.  Voting machines to him are the greatest oportunity for the all-seeing entities to learn more about him.  Computers are just tricky devices to peek into his private life, and find out some dark secret that will put him in jail or worse.  Life is not to be enjoyed, but to be endured with fear and looking back over one's shoulder.


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## Hagbard Celine (Feb 12, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Here are some good solutions for all this nonsense:
> 
> 
> *1.* Instantly abolish VNS and exit polling.
> ...


I think you're indictment of the news media is way over the top. If you have a problem with a particular publication then sue that publication, but you're lumping every broadcaster and publication into one category: the evil MSM. I work in the heart of one of the main "MSM" broadcasters and I can say with gusto that none of my co-workers is "evil" or has a political agenda by any means. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go to the morning "vast liberal media conspiracy" meeting so that we can figure out which stories will cause the most harm to Americans today.


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## eots (Feb 12, 2007)

Eightball said:


> You trust no one............what a sad state of life.
> 
> Guess my stay-at-home, Mom who was a volunteer poll worker back in the 1950's in our neighborhood for a couple years, was also one of those who decided those who would be elected.
> 
> ...



I am speaking for myself here but i also fell reasonably comfortable with speaking on behalf of patriots that are determined to expose and stop globalist forces from creating a one world socialist government .we do not
live in fear. in fact we strive to be fearless,knowing are motives are truth
freedom and justice and in keeping with gods will and evil only has the power we give it. if the men in black show up at the door then thats is gods will
and i have no fear. I am not worn out. I am energized full of hope and ready to do battle  i don't live in a boarded up shack and i love the smell of roses in fact my greenhouse is one of my favorite places but i prefer to grow vegetables 
i run my own small business i have 3 wonderful children ,a beautiful wife and 3 cats .on the issue of your brother in law like many mentally ill people their delusions are based in reality and are often the result of higher perception.
unfortunately they become fragmented ,confused and illogical the filter is gone and its sensory overload , often they see the great evil in this world but lose sight of god , i could post many declassified documents on  secret government projects on mind control and other experiments preformed on the general public ie; Mk ultra or of covert spying on the public via computers
google has announced they can use your computer to watch and listen to you in fact it is even on there media player where you click a box giving premision to use your speakers as a microphone. the technology is without question there. as is echelon 5 and total information awarness ,i could post volumes of quotes from cfr tri lateral commission bilderburg members  the UN
Rockefeller's Hearst calling for and stating there intentions to micro chip the population and this project is well underway with chips so small they can be implanted via injection all of this information is fact-I can present it all to you 
and somehow you can still deny it, which only makes you the other side of the coin of your brother in law. if feel your correct in your diagnoses of truth seekers and true patriots mental conditions you  should be aware that
this view is shared by many top level CIA FBI military officers and scholars.
I think your missing FDR s quote i agree wholly there is nothing to fear but fear its self and we will defeat the new world order

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## NuclearWinter (Feb 12, 2007)

Eightball said:


> You trust no one............what a sad state of life.
> 
> Guess my stay-at-home, Mom who was a volunteer poll worker back in the 1950's in our neighborhood for a couple years, was also one of those who decided those who would be elected.
> 
> ...



lol. Thanks again for comparing me to your brother in law Eightball. You just can't seem to get over the fact that I'm not him. lol.

Also, again, if your brother in law would present solid facts as I am doing with this thread, than I would have all the respect for him in the World. But if he's seriously as mentally ill as you claim he is, than why not try and be his friend? Or help him?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 12, 2007)

"When You're dealing with the networks, you're dealing with a shadowgovernment." 

*Tim O' Brien, ABC's Supreme Court Correspondent*


Folks, I love America, especially the freedom and unlimited potential it represents. I also despise with every ounce of venom in my body the sick evil Satanistic Controllers that are deliberately in the process of destroying this great nation.

Listen to me, folks. Everything that we've come to love in this country -- all of the cherished freedoms and rights -- are about to be slowly taken away from us. This is the real thing, and it's happening right before our very eyes. 

The United States has declared war on terrorists, but there's a much more important war taking place that the media isn't telling you about. It's a war between the Globalists, those who want a slavish New World Order, and a group of patriotic Nationalists who love America and want to save it from being destroyed.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 12, 2007)

Let me ask you all a question. After the atrocity of September 11, we witnessed an outpouring of love by hundreds of thousands of honest, dedicated Americans who would do anything to guard and protect our country. These people are everywhere, and it fills my heart with joy to know that they exist.

By the same token, take a look at things happening in this country and ask yourself, "Do the people running the show have the American people's best interests in mind?" You'll eventually realize that we're being lied to on a daily basis; duped, deceived, manipulated, and undermined by a hidden cadre of Globalists who control our government, media and in many cases even our universities.

If these people want to bolster America, then why aren't be being told the truth about Votescam, AIDS, and scores of other issues?

Why are we allowing our country to be overrun with illegal aliens when we could stop this problem within a week? Why are we allowing trade agreements such as NAFTA to destroy our industrial-based economy? Why are we allowing our votes to be stolen by letting self-serving politicians sit in Washington, DC and watch us be weakened just so they can fatten their wallets?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 12, 2007)

I'd like to ask you guys another question: Where do you all get your information from about the World around you? Most people would say television, radio, newspapers, magazines, and the Internet. Well, let me put this revelation in the starkest terms possible. The same people who are destroying our country are those who own just about every single media source that you get your information from.

What does that mean to you? Here's the way I see it. The majority of the people in the mainstream media along with certain members of our government are lying through their teeth to the American people on a daily basis. 

It's time for all of us to think for ourselves rather than be conditioned into little obedient automatons. 

If you don't buy into how much is being kept from us, take the Bilderbergs for example. The mainstream media never says a word about them! And yet, the people who belong to that group are political leaders, bankers, industrialists, and businessmen! Considering that these men and women are some of the most influential individuals on the planet, you would think that there would be some media coverage of their conferences. But the mainstream media says nothing. It's a total blackout.

Or, as James Tucker said in the now defunct _Spotlight_ newspaper: 

"If the world's most popular film stars or football players gathered for a closed-door meeting over the weekend, the press would go crazy, demanding to know what was discussed. But when the world's most powerful private citizens gather in the company of key political figures, there's not the slightest cry of outrage."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 12, 2007)

What we have here is a handful of people who control vitrually ALL of the information we receive. This system is perpetuated by the FCC, which regulates how many television and radio stations operate in a given area. The lockdown is so complete, that in 1990, only 21 groups controlled the entirety of the printed media; 12 groups controlled all the newspapers, 3 controlled the magazines, and another 6 controlled the mainstream publishing industry. 

I guarantee you that these numbers have become even more appalling over the past decade.

Turn on your television and flick through the channels. How many alternatives do you have regarding the news? There is:

CBS: CONTROLLED
NBC: CONTROLLED
ABC: CONTROLLED
FOX: CONTROLLED
CNN: CONTROLLED

The people who dominate the media are part of "The Alibi Club", an elite group of 50 business executives and political officials who have joined together with the "Intelligence" community to influence what we see, hear, and read in the media. This idea is supported by a clandestine program called "Operation Mockingbird" in which the CIA recruited and used mainstream journalists to manipulate the media and directly affect the outcome of elections.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 12, 2007)

As a voice of reason, Noam Chomsky tells us, "If you're rational and honest, you're pretty much excluded from the educated classes, from the privileged classes. Those are the properties (honesty and rationalism) that are very dangerous."

In other words, Noam Chomsky said that if you're a liar, you can progress to the upper echelons of power. But if you're honest, you're seen as a threat to the established order.

On September 10, 2001, America was plunging into a recession; the Gary Condit sex scandal played on every station, crime was on an upswing; the Israeli/Palestinian peace talks were deteriorating; and NAFTA and illegal immigration had many people disgruntled.

One day later, on Septembr 11, our nation was inspired by waves of patriotism, focused on a single act of brutality, and was willing to relinquish many of our civil rights. To fuel us, George W. Bush gave a speech that sent his approval ratings through the roof.

Do you think that life has gotten better or worse since September 11? If you said worse, what are you going to do if things keep going downhill? Also, do you think the Mainstream Media is going to be there to help you along the way, or will they continue to lie on a daily basis? I don't know about you, but I refuse to accept their deceptive practices any longer.


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## eots (Feb 12, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> "When You're dealing with the networks, you're dealing with a shadowgovernment."
> 
> *Tim O' Brien, ABC's Supreme Court Correspondent*
> 
> ...



ya but this GLOBALIST SATANIST DELIBERATELY OUT TO DESTROY
THE NATION is so tiresome cant we just return to talking about those dam Dem's or scandalous neo-cons
or football and celebrities and the flowers and the Bunny's


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 12, 2007)

One of the biggest problems that people who are in the Mainstream Media as well as many of the Controllers themselves tend to suffer from is a propensity to reveal the Controller's motives every once and awhile. So, take a look at what has been said in the past about their own industry and practices:


*Richard Salent (former president of CBS News):* 

_"Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have."_


*Lyndon Johnson (former President of the United States):*

_"Reporters are puppets. They simply respond to the pull of the most powerful strings."_


*Bill Moyers (television journalist):* 

"Most of the news on television is, ultimately, whatever the government says is news."


*Johnny Carson:* "How much of the national news that you report to the public each night consists of information you've actually gone out and dug up on your own?"

*Connie Chung (responding to Johnny's question):* "In all honesty, we are often at the mercy of the White House for the news we report. Frequently, we simply report verbatim what the White House tells us."


*The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence (Marchetti & Marks):* 

"Only about 20% of the CIA's career employees work on intelligence analysis and information processing. About 2/3 of all CIA funds and manpower are spent on "covert operations", such as the manipulation of public opinion and elections and its mass media manipulation activity."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 13, 2007)

Excluding home ownership, the wealthiest 10% of Americans own 76% of this nation's net worth. More than half of that is accounted for by the top 1%. These rich elitists also own television stations, newspapers, magazines, Internet news sites, and radio stations.

Whenever I see a preponderance of lies, half-truths, censorship, and steady streams of disinformation in the various media outlets each day, I ask myself, how can these people continue to sell their Souls? How do they possibly look in the mirror after knowingly enabling drug traffickers, murderers, and sexual deviants to get away with their crimes? And I'm not even refering to true-life criminals. I'm talking about politicians, government officials, intelligence operatives, and the Controllers themselves.

How can any member of the mainstream media sleep at night, pat their children on the head, or not cringe with shame when they pass an American flag knowing that a plethora of blatant crimes go unreported each day?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 13, 2007)

_Into the Buzzsaw_, an excellent book recently released in 2002 by Prometheus Books and edited by Kristina Borjesson, answers some of these questions.

By giving eighteen journalists a chance to speak freely on a number of issues (as opposed to being muted by the corporate media), this collection shows how the field of professional journalism has lost its fire and why many of its members continue to wallow like yellow-spined lemmings in a pool of aloofness and deceit.

I recommend that everyone try to read this book. Inside of it, you will find out how the CIA has admitted to blatant cases of cocaine trafficking, and yet our fine lily-livered journalists don't have the guts to expose these DRUG DEALERS in a meaningful way. You will also read about the Franklin pedophilia case, how AIDS is a man-made genocidal disease, the Bilderberg secrecy, _Votescam_, the Federal Reserve deception and theft, and much much more.

But what it all boils down to is this. Many of the devils in positions of power have intimidated the American mass media journalists to such an extent that they now tremble and cover for these killers, drug dealers, and deviants.

Why? Why are they enabling them to get away with this deception? Isn't it time to stand-up and expose these traitors?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 13, 2007)

_Into the Buzzsaw_ brings to light what those in power want to conceal. When a reporter dares to trespass into forbidden territory - the truth -- they enter the "buzzsaw", which Kristina Borjesson defines as "a powerful system of censorship in this country that is revealed to those reporting on extremely sensitive stories usually having to do with high level government and/or corporate malfeasance."

Bjorjesson continues to describe the "buzzsaw" as "what can rip through you when you try to investigate or expose anything this country's large institutions -- be they corporate or government -- want kept under wraps. The system finally fights back with official lies, disinformation and stonewalling."

"If the reporter or writer in question cannot be silenced, then the media big-wig moguls, who are merely pawns of the multinational corporations and international bankers, use a technique called "marginalization". In other words, when someone gets too close to the truth they are labeled a "conspiracy nut", then they are subjected to a propaganda juggernaut, which Borjesson says happens to "anyone who didn't believe the government officials or the journalists who unquestionably reported what the official said."

She further explains, "If you don't go along with the party line, you're shoved into the margins and eventually out of the picture."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 13, 2007)

So what does all this mean? It simply means that the media is towing the pary line. If you as a reporter walk outside of the accepted parameters, they will turn on you like bloodthirsty sharks!

Rather than going after the guilty party, they attack the reporter who upset the apple cart. (See Gary Webb and his expose' on how the CIA imported drugs into L.A. during the mid 1980's to start the gang war crack craze).

Philip Weiss reinforces this point by saying that we DO have freedom of speech and freedom of the press in this country, but to combat the dangers inherent to the elite class, it is marginalized by the Controllers to the "fringe". 

Weiss goes on to tell us: "Corporate media outlets cannot entertain serious questions about the legitimacy of the powers-that-be, even when spokesmen are shown to lie."

By being comfortable and removed from the streets, isn't it interesting how an entire industry of journalists is enveloped by a corporate framework? The worst part is that most don't even realize the irony of how shackled and enslaved they are.


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## Eightball (Feb 14, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> So what does all this mean? It simply means that the media is towing the pary line. If you as a reporter walk outside of the accepted parameters, they will turn on you like bloodthirsty sharks!
> 
> Rather than going after the guilty party, they attack the reporter who upset the apple cart. (See Gary Webb and his expose' on how the CIA imported drugs into L.A. during the mid 1980's to start the gang war crack craze).
> 
> ...



Looks like we've rounded the corner and are back to Square One. We're all in some way shackled to the elite-ist framework............"Help"!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 14, 2007)

That's right Eightball, and this strategy doesn't only apply to newspapers or TV. The publishing industry also censors itself, as Gerald Colby points out with the concept of "privishing". 

This phenomenon occurs, "when a publisher kills off an author's book without the author's awareness or consent." Basically, they "cut off the book's life-support system." Publishers can plunge a dagger through the heart of a book in a number of different ways, such as:

*1.* Reducing the print run.
*2.* Refusing additional print runs.
*3.* Gouging the promotional budget.
*4.* Failing to support a book-signing tour.
*5.* Or by simply saying that the book is not available.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 14, 2007)

One may wonder at this time how the corporate media is allowed to get away with such nonsense. The key word here is "corporate". As Ben Bagdikian notes in _The Media Monopoly_, in 1993 there were 50 major media corporations in America. A little more than just 10 years later, there are six! Only SIX multinational companies now control all the network, newspaper, radio, and magazine news departments in this country.

The Corporations, of course, are owned and beholden to the international bankers, whose primary goal is globalization, which is reflected in their foreign policy decisions. In all, the media becomes a conditioning tool used to maintain the status quo while maximizing profits.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 14, 2007)

Greg Palast reflects on the result of this monopolized media: "If the Rupert Murdochs of the globe are shepherds of the New World Order, they owe their success to breeding a flock of docile sheep; snoozy editors and reporters who are content to munch on, digest, and then reprint a diet of press releases and canned stories provided by officials and corporate P.R. operators."

Maurice Murad adds, "The manipulation of perceptions is replacing reality as the governing principle in human affairs."

When President Dwight D. Eisenhower delivered his farewell speech in 1961 before leaving office, he warned Americans about the dangers of a growing military-industrial complex. 

The media should act as a watch dog against these forces, but instead, the press has actually been meshed together with them under the same corporate umbrella.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 15, 2007)

Look at how many of these cowering dogs still refuse to acknowledge how horribly their ranks have been corrupted and poisoned by the perpetuation of outright lies.

What do I mean? The New York Times came clean once in 1977 and verified to what extent the CIA had infiltrated the media and publishing industry. Author Michael Levine weighs in by saying, "If the CIA is good at anything, it is complete control of the American media. So secure are they in their ability to manipulate the media that they even brag about it in their own in-house memos."

Gary Webb adds further ammunition by writing: "The national news organizations have had a long, dissapointing history of playing footsie with the CIA. DO we have a free press today? Sure we do, it's free to report all the sex scandals it wants, all the stock market news we can handle, every new health fad that comes down the pike and every celebrity marriage and divorce that happens. But when it comes to the real down and dirty stuff - that's where we begin to see the limits of our freedom. In today's media environment, sadly, such stories are not even open for discussion."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 15, 2007)

George Seldes, author of _The Lords of the Press_ (1983), lays it all on the line by sneering, "It is possible to fool all the people all the time when the government and the press cooperate." 

Unfortunately, we've reached that point in this country. Most everyone is being bamboozled!

In essence, then, the American media's cowardice is a direct reflection of their "don't rock the boat" mentality; starting with the editors, program directors, and network heads and filtering down to the reporters.

By utilizing bias, omission, under reporting and outright censorship, they remain beholden to the corporate (and local) advertising, while preserving their incestuous relationship with governmental PR sources. These two forces make sick, twisted bed-partners.

But the question that I keep asking is this: how can these guilty parties live with themselves? Are the few dollars that they get for keeping the lid on really worth it?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 15, 2007)

Carl Jenson reinforces this point quite nicely by writing, "The high salaries many of our leaders receive in newsrooms and business offices as well as corporate headquarters, have turned into golden handcuffs. And those handcuffs morphed into blindfolds and gags..."

Jenson goes on to describe how this failure to break free from their constraints leads to a journalistic conundrum. "The United States has a free press guaranteed by its Constitution, it has the world's most sophisticated communication system, and it has more independent media outlets disseminating more information 24 hours a day than anywhere else in the World. Considering our autonomous press and the quality of information that bombards us daily, we should be a very well-informed populace. Unfortunately, high-tech and a free press do not guarantee a well-informed society. The problem is not the quantity of information that we receive, but the quality."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 15, 2007)

With this in mind, we should look at the main function of journalism. Robert McChesney provides an excellent overview: "The media system must provide a rigorous accounting of PEOPLE IN POWER and people who want to be in power, in both public and private sectors. This is  known as the watchdog role. Contemporary journalism serves as a tepid and weak-kneed watchdog over those in power, especially in the corporate sector."

But these watchdogs have turned into simpering lap dogs that suckle at the tit of their corporate sponsors, while those who speak the truth are shoved to the fringe, or viewed as rabble-rousers and subversives. 

But let's keep in mind the reality of the situation, which Henry Adams reminds us: "The press is the hired agent of a moneyed system set up for no other reason than to _tell lies where their interests are concerned_."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 15, 2007)

Robert McChesney exploded one of the prevailing myths of journalism when he said: "Trained editors and reporters are granted autonomy by the owners to make editorial decisions, and these decisions are based on their professional judgment, not the politics of the owners and the advertisers, or their commercial interests to maximize profits." How laughable.

Closer to the truth, of course, is McChesney's summary of Public Relations in regard to the media when he said, "By providing slick press releases, paid-for "experts", neutral-sounding but bogus 'citizens' groups, and canned news events, crafty PR agents have been able to shift the news to suit the interests of their mostly corporate clientele."

Alex Carey, who wrote, _Taking the Risk out of Democracy_ in 1977, adds even more weight to this argument by showing how these shysters add another level of confusion to America's social fabric when he said: "The role of PR is to so muddle the public sphere as to take the risk out of democracy for the wealthy and corporations."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 15, 2007)

In other words, the media, when combined with public relations firms and their overlord Controllers, end up conditioning us with a game of misdirection - sort of like children when they played "hotter-colder" (you're getting hotter...hotter...now colder...). 

By using a variety of subtle techniques, the media directs us away from stories that they deem too "hot" or "explosive".

In fact, Robert McChesney said it best when he described professional journalism as being "biased towards the status quo." He said that, "The general rule in professional journalism is this: if the elite, the upper two or three percent of society who control most of the capital and rule the largest institutions, agree on an issue, then it is off-limits to journalistic scrutiny."

How true! How sad....but true.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 16, 2007)

You gotta love this guy Robert McChesney for describing the reality of our situation folks.

He also said about our current situation:

"To the United States elite, democracy tends to be defined by their ability to maximize profit. U.S. professional journalism, even at its best, serves as a propaganda function similar to the role of Pravda or Izbestia in the old USSR."

And if we return to the subject of media ownership, we see that our "faithful" television broadcasters are essentially controlled by AOL Time-Warner, Disney, Viacom, GE, and Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation. Also, check out these disturbing facts:

*1.* The ten largest media firms own ALL U.S. TV networks.

*2.* They also own most every TV station in the major markets, and all major film and music studios, nearly all the TV cable channels, and most all book and magazine publishers.

*3.* In terms of news, Jim Squires, former editor of the _Chicago Tribune_, found this trend so disturbing, he said resentfully, "Our generation has witnessed the end of journalism."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 16, 2007)

As it stands now, the American media has relinquished its role as watchdogs of the high-and-mighty, therein surrendering their dignity and ability to help make the World a better place. And what a pitiful, disheartening surrender it has been - to not only themselves and their families, but also to the American public. This once proud, vital institution has allowed itself to be reduced to pathetic marrionettes dangling from from the Controller's strings. The profession has, by and large, lost its backbone and grit.

Hell, they'll even bend over for the international financiers and whip us into a frenzy so the death-mongers can ship our boys off to die in another one of their perpetual wars. 

Robert Mchesney summed up the media's role in fueling the greedy War Machine:

"The government needs to lie in order to gain support for its war aims. The media system, in every case, proves to be a superior propaganda organ for militarism and empire. The United States media conglomerates exist within an institutional context that makes support for the U.S. military seemingly natural." 

"These giant firms are among the primary beneficiaries of globalization, and the U.S. role as the preeminent World power. Indeed, the United States Government is the primary advocate for the global media firms."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 16, 2007)

Isn't it clear what's taking place here folks? The mainstream corporate media and the power elite are no longer separate entities! There's no dividing line between them any longer. They're in bed together, with the multinational Globalists whipping the reporters, anchors, and editors like obedient dogs. And I have to tell you, the scent they're following isn't one that benefits us, but only further promotes the Controller's New World Order goals.

Here is my plea to the majority of the reporters and journalists out there: 

Please, before it's too late, bury your cowardice and stand up to your bosses. Why are you selling your country, your family, and yourself out? Can't you see what's happening in America? We're being deliberately undermined by a group of power-hungry devils that allow 100,000 people to die of starvation EVERY DAY. Devils that created a deadly sex virus and who use it to commit genocide on entire peoples. Devils that advocate a perpetual, bloodthirsty War Machine that is now ready to start rolling in overdrive.

These same people steal our money via an unjust tax system; then pilfer even more money through their privately-owned, for profit Federal Reserve System. These same people run drugs, launder money, murder as if they lived outside the law, and are increasingly setting up a Big Brother type surveillance system that will alter the World in a way that'll bring us directly into George Orwell's "1984".

They're also destroying the planet's environment with wild abandon, and then building even more underground bases to protect themselves when the shit starts hitting the fan (while we'll be locked out in the cold to suffer and gasp for breath).

Hell, they've even trampled the very foundation of our democratic system via "Votescam", and do so with such arrogance, it's appalling.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 16, 2007)

So, I have to ask each and every journalist at CBS, the _New York Times_, _Newsweek_, CNN, local newspapers, and those of you talking on the radio, who refuse to expose the truth about the Controllers: when are you going to expose these lying, murdering, traitorous devils for what they are? Why are you so afraid to stand up to them? If every journalist in this country decided to start telling the truth, we could run those bastards out of town in a week! That's all it would take - tell the TRUTH!

Be a MAN....be a WOMAN....Be a TRUE PARENT and AMERICAN and do what's right. Quit telling lies and let the American people know what's REALLY going on in the World. That's your duty and responsibility.

Forget about status, position and money. Just tell the truth. For in the end, what does it matter if you've gained the entire World, but lost your Soul in the process? 

It's time for some dramatic changes in this country, and I challenge every single member of the media to stand up and expose these Controllers and their loathsome goals. If we don't do it soon, we won't have another chance. 

Are you willing to have that on your conscience?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 17, 2007)

*SLAVERY

A DEFINITION:

The re-orientation of some or all of a persons (or groups) creativity, energy, resources, assets, time, actions, towards anothers goals, standards and purposes by the introduction of the idea of force, or threat of force, meaning the application of physical or emotional pain resulting and insuring loss to the individual(s), (victim) if the requests and demands are not met; i.e. (in) forced alignment toward someone elses goals and purposes.

D.e.*


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 17, 2007)

By far the largest segment of World society lives in the Slave Class. We have become folks that are essentially a worker bee group that is cultured to support the Ruling Class of the World. In other words, we are the people who assemble parts for their microwaves in a factory, haul away the trash, unclog the sewers, serve the food, pump the gas, drive the taxis, balance the books, clean the hotels, and perform a thousand other jobs that the "Controller's" don't want to do.

But if the Slave Class comprises at least three-quarters of the societal whole, than why don't we wise up to the system and try to overthrow it, or at least try to dramatically change it? 

There are 3 main reasons why the masses have been pacified:

*1.* We're motivated by an illusion that we aren't, in fact, slaves, but rather free individuals.

*2.* We feel blessed to live in our countries (and consider them to be the greatest nations in the World), and to be "overseen" by a caring government that immensely cares about us. This government is increasingly a type of "father-figure" that continues to exert more influence over each person's life, thus freeing us from any actual "responsibility".

*3.* We complain about taxes, inequality and the crooks in office, but we are always promised a reward at the end of the line (social security, ect.)

The Controllers maintain these programs with help from their Enforcers by making sure that we (the Slaves) have full bellies, but they work very hard to insure that we will never produce enough wealth to reach independence.

As it currently stands, all of the wealth produced by the Slave Class must always be transfered to the Ruling Class. And with our present system of taxation and mind control, this has been extremely effective.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 17, 2007)

In an efficient slave system, the slave must think that he/she is in control, or is "free" in other words. But the slave must be left with only the bare minimum with which to provide for personal and family needs. The slave must work most of his/her life, giving over the bulk of his/her earnings to the Ruling Class. This is now being very efficiently accomplished in the United States, and for the most part everyone is currently quite happy with the results.

All one needs to do is start thinking about the regal European castles and churches that were constructed during the medieval times while the feudal system was in effect. Naturally, the Aristocracy (kings, queens, and princes) lorded over the serfs, who surrendered their sweat and muscle power to erect these magnificent structures. 

Most people who would ponder that situation would think, "Man, what fools those people must have been. They were nothing but slaves!."

But has the overall class structure actually changed that much over the past millennium? Yes, certain "particulars" have improved, and today we have indoor plumbing, heat, automobiles, and modern medicine, to name a few conveniences. But in terms of a hierarchal caste system, are things dramatically different?


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## trobinett (Feb 17, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> In an efficient slave system, the slave must think that he/she is in control, or is "free" in other words. But the slave must be left with only the bare minimum with which to provide for personal and family needs. The slave must work most of his/her life, giving over the bulk of his/her earnings to the Ruling Class. This is now being very efficiently accomplished in the United States, and for the most part everyone is currently quite happy with the results.
> 
> All one needs to do is start thinking about the regal European castles and churches that were constructed during the medieval times while the feudal system was in effect. Naturally, the Aristocracy (kings, queens, and princes) lorded over the serfs, who surrendered their sweat and muscle power to erect these magnificent structures.
> 
> ...



I don't mean to be "negative", but you sure seem to be an expert on "slaves", can you tell us why?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 17, 2007)

70% of America's population, and the number would be closer to 90% if we took the entire World into consideration, are still stuck in the Slave Class. The Controllers of today (bankers, CEO's, ect.) are merely the lords and emperors of times past.

Naturally, some upward and downward mobility exists in this country, but think about this. How many people do you personally know who have truly transcended their class? Certainly someone can go to college or work very hard and believe that they have actually migrated from one class to another, but what are the actual odds that a member of the Slave Class will ever join the Elite Class? Rarely.

We're all pretty much stuck in our class, which in America is largely comprised of a middle class that is snowballed into thinking it has some say-so in how this country is being run. But, quite plainly, it doesn't.

Look at the personal debt we're carrying - it's never been higher. What does that tell you? That the middle class is thriving? No. it's showing that most Americans are living from one paycheck to another, can't completely cover their expenses, and if they lost their jobs, would be in dire straits.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 17, 2007)

trobinett said:


> I don't mean to be "negative", but you sure seem to be an expert on "slaves", can you tell us why?



Because under the World's current governing system, along with you, I am one.

Until things change. Which they will. Don't be afraid to take action when the time comes. And keep your faith. In yourself if nothing else.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 17, 2007)

Actually, plenty of Americans _are_ losing their jobs, especially in the industrial and manufacturing fields (due to NAFTA), and replacing them with lower-paying service jobs.

The Slave Class is so busy trying to make ends meet that there isn't time to worry about much else. And guess what? That's _exactly_ the way the Controllers have designed the system. Due to being heavily taxed, indebted, and with scores of bills to pay, plus lawns to mow, raking leaves, cooking dinner, taking care of the kids, fixing the car and so forth, there isn't much time to "get involved". To get involved with a REAL cause to help the World. 

Instead, you have people who have been reduced to saying things like, "I do have a CAUSE - putting food on the table and making sure I have enough money to keep the roof from leaking and paying the fuel bill this winter." 

Sadly, this is what it has come to for most Americans and other people around the World. No time to fight the Controllers. We are stuck in "survival mode".


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 17, 2007)

So do people still think that we don't have a caste system in this country? How much chance does one individual have of jumping up to the next level? 

And before anyone starts thinking that I am a pessimist, please let me clarify. I believe in hard work and industriousness as much as anyone, but I am also a realist who observes certain things. And what I see is a firmly established framework that was intentionally designed to keep people busy, enslaved, and too occupied to exert the effort to modify our caste system.

To keep the Machine running, the Controllers need people to _produce_ goods and services for them. But if we make certain products, we also need to buy items such as CD players, $150 tennis shoes, boats, BMW's, and home entertainment systems. So via a subtle form of conditioning called "advertising" coupled with the ingrained concept of our "American Dream", people are constantly striving to keep up with the Joneses and living beyond their means, all in the name of a larger "scheme" that many people don't even know exists.

By promoting concepts such as freedom, patriotism, and a materialistic American Dream, plus the utilization of various conditioning techniques, the masses remain "in our place", continually being exploited and manipulated by an Evil Ruling Class.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

The most crucial concept to remember when thinking about the Controllers is that of "vested interests" - doing what most benefits oneself without considering the ramifications of a bigger picture. 

If viewed in these terms, you can understand why the CIA is the World's largest drug trafficker (it provides extra black-budget money outside of Congressional inspection), why police forces in general don't want to completely eradicate crime (it would put them out of business), why the military is pro-war (it's their livelihood), or why politicians promote inherently flawed social programs (it keeps certain voters dependent upon them and perpetuates a system of conflict in which people must "turn to them" to solve their problems).

The examination of vested interests is one of the most essential tools in understanding our World power system, for it goes hand-in-hand with CONTROL!

The War on Drugs is a perfect example of what a horrendous scam-job is being pulled on us. Why? First of all, every drug agency in the World has a vested interest in addiction. Without it, they'd be on the streets looking for a new job. By the same token, with this "scourge" or fear, people are conditioned to turn to their "selected" leaders for guidance in this matter. When coupled with crime, terrorism, and inner-city problems, we become as dependent upon government as a junkie is on heroin. Finally, to "solve" this problem, our statesmen and media keep drumming up the "fact" (which is actually a fallacy) that they need more money to win this battle.

And what does more funding imply? You guessed it - higher taxes!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

In all, the epitome of vested interests is played out in this simple "war on drugs" scenario. The CIA traffics drugs, law enforcement allows it to keep occurring on the streets at an "acceptable" level, the legal system prosecutes those who are unlucky enough to get busted (thus in the best interest of the lawyers, judges, court officials, and prison employees) while the Government Machine keeps sucking out more money to feed itself.

It isn't real hard to figure this stuff out. In fact, there is one entity that could very easily blow the lid off this entire shell game. And who would what be? The yellow-spined, pusillanimous, corporate-controlled American mass media. These folks aren't as sleazy as lawyers, or as destructive as military men can be, they are not even as hypocritical as many of our religious leaders, or nearly as corrupt as the majority of our politicians; but many of them are still among the lowest and vilest of the lot because more than any other, they could take a stand to change our current situation.

But they don't because they've "sold their Souls" for a paycheck, job security, and a certain amount of phony status.

These people are cowards who slavishly turn a blind eye to the deeds of drug traffickers, murderers, traitors, and sexual predators. And by doing so, their silence becomes equated with complicity. By serving as the Controllers' enforcers, they enable the crimes taking place in this country to continue. 

And some of them say they are committed. Committed to what? Money, prestige, and security? Certainly not the TRUTH! They can't just stop at finding the Truth, either, because they need to EXPOSE IT! They need to drop the smokescreen of propaganda and disinformation and give us the Truth. It's their responsibility. So they need to start taking it seriously.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

I see this country being deliberately undermined by hidden forces that have seized control of our Government by nefarious means, and thus use it to further  promote their Globalist agenda. These shadowy figures, who I've labeled the "Controllers", don't operate with our best interests in mind. Thus, the only hope we have left of saving this nation is to expose them in a dramatic way, and then eradicate them as quickly as possible.

In my opinion, the importance of this stems directly from survival and preservation. Do the American people enjoy being the World's premier superpower at the moment? And all that this privilege entails? Do we appreciate our financial status, and the freedoms we're essentially taking for granted in many cases? If we do, and this point is very serious, if we do cherish these ideals and rights, then we had better start acting like it because the die has been cast to alter the way of life that we've become accustomed to.

It's time that we all looked beyond the veil and actually see what the Controllers are planning for us...and believe me, these Devils are consummate planners.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

As of now, China is set to become the World's next superpower, while the Controllers plan to have America assume the subordinate position (a la Russia in relation to us right now). 

The reason that China will assume the reins of power if the Controllers get their way isn't because they necessarily want to, but it's because they've been "selected" due to one elemental factor - exploitation. If viewed from a historical perspective, you'll see what I mean.

Three centuries ago, the British Empire proudly stood as the World's preeminent superpower. No one else compared in terms of military or economic might, and if you would have asked any Englishman if they'd ever get toppled from their throne, they would have thought the notion absurd. But lo and behold, America entered the picture, and those with global, far-reaching aims realized the potential this land possessed. 

Following both the American and Industrial Revolutions, our vast potential became apparent in terms of land, resources, and promise. Or, as Alphonse Rothschild said in 1849 while visiting New York City, "Without the slightest doubt, this is the cradle of a new civilization."

So America boomed, bailed out Europe in a couple of World Wars, and rose to become the greatest nation of modern times. But now China enters the picture with a population of one-billion people, most of whom don't have cellular phones, microwaves, DVD players, or automobiles. So what actions do the Controllers take? They "select" Globalist leaders to implement their plans by not only giving China "Most Favored Nation" status, but they also sell them all the computer software, hardware, and know-how to move them into our league.

It's absurd! Like cows deliberately walking into a slaughterhouse to be butchered. Thanks Bill Clinton and George Bush (I & II) for selling us out. And that's only the tip of the iceberg. Don't even get me started on the atrocities of war, NAFTA, ect.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

For any country to truly prosper, it must have control over its money system. It's that simple. Financial independence (not being beholden to anybody) is the key. That's one of the main reasons why our Founding Fathers broke free from England. Not only did they see religious freedom, but also financial freedom. Or, as historian Ralph Epperson noted, "The cause of the Revolution was the resistance of the colonies to the idea of borrowed money, resulting in debt and inflation, as well as interest payments, and not 'taxation without representation' as is commonly believed.

I'm afraid though, that over two centuries later we're as enslaved as a nation can be by outside forces that control the entirey of our purse strings. The money system controls America; and those who call the shots are not located in Washington, D.C....but in the financial centers of New York City and beyond (London, Paris, Germany, ect.). 

Right now our country pays approximately $360 billion or more a year in interest payments on the National Debt. That's $360 BILLION every year! Imagine how much we could accomplish with that money if it wasn't funneled into the pockets of men who are already wealthy beyond words. From my perspective, this is the least-common-denominator to how our money system works. Usury is one of the greatest evils on this planet.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

The Federal Reserve CORPORATION (and remember, that's what it is -- a privately-owned, for profit corporation) is dangerous because it has allowed outside influences to usurp our Government. Thomas Jefferson once declared, "I believe banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies." Antony Sutton, in _The Federal Reserve Conspiracy_, added, "Nothing is more dangerous to the power of the elite than the public discovery and understanding of the PRIVATE control of the money supply."

The dangers of this institution lie in the fact that it was created in 1913 on a premise of pure deception. Rather than being a part of the Federal Government, as its name implies, the Federal Reserve is actually closer to a "Central Bank" described by Karl Marx in _The Communist Manifesto_. Thus, the Federal Reserve System is an aggregate of private banks owned by international financiers who meet and make decisions behind closed doors. 

Since profits are an integral part of any business enterprise, what do you think the primary stockholders of the Federal Reserve (many of them foreign based) have as their highest priorities -- our welfare, or their own agenda? What's worse, money isn't even the predominant factor in their decision-making process. Hell, they already have fortunes beyond their wildest dreams. It was even estimated that in 1900, the Rothschild family owned half of the World's total wealth! No, what's really frightening is that power and control are their motivations and in that sense we have to ask ourselves, does someone like David Rockefeller or his ilk sitting in skyscrapers overlooking New York City have the same priorities as we do? The answer is no, they don't. That's where the danger lies.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

Please remember, I'm not a fan of the Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Greens, or Libertarians, so please don't think I'm 'bashing'. I dislike the majority of them all who are currently in office equally.

George Bush's 2002 Federal budget came to approximately $2.05 trillion. If you stacked this amount of money in one-dollar bills, it would reach all the way to the Moon and half-way back again. The National Debt is three times larger, so these stacked dollar bills would stretch from the Earth to the Moon and back, then from the Earth to the Moon and back AGAIN, then halfway to the Moon yet again. Hell, we have trouble even paying off the interest, let alone the principle, and with our War Machine set to roll at top speed again, the debt will only get worse.

There is a definite pyramid of control in the World, with the international bankers at the top of it, secret societies and European aristocracy/royalty below them, followed by the heads of international companies and old-money American families at the third level, with....get this...certain political leaders at the fourth tier. 

It is my assertion that these political leaders aren't elected, but "selected" by groups such as the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergs.

If Americans ever peered behind the veil and saw the Wizard of Oz illusion that controls our political system, they'd be shocked beyond belief.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

In regard to the dynamics of our current democracy again, I would say that it is nothing but an illusion. Once we examine Votescam, black budget enterprises, memberships to certain Globalist groups, and how the true political power base isn't located in Washington, DC but in New York City, we'd realize that our say-so in how this country is run is extremely limited.

Of course, Government misconduct is rampant in America, such as illegal chemtrail spraying by the military and the U.N., but the biggest crime facing us is that our Government has been usurped, and that the media refuses to expose the power structure that exists behind the scenes. To them, the chain-of-command stops with the President. But nothing could be further from the truth. These individuals are nothing more than "implementers" of decisions made by the shadow Government. If the media EVER let this cat out of the bag, our World would be dramatically different, so the "secret" is guarded with obsessive care.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 18, 2007)

The result is quite evident. The Controllers motives are SO easy to see once you know what to look for. 

By setting our sights on Afghanistan and getting the War Machine rolling, the elite are capitalizing on the three biggest "industries" or money-making ventures in the entire World: usury, energy, and drugs.

*Usury* - The Controllers make vast amounts of money off of war because every country involved needs money to finance their efforts, so where do they get their capital from? From the international bankers. And what results from the loans? Interest - lots and lots of interest. Once each nation gets their money for the War Machine, they need to buy bombs, guns, tanks, bullets, planes, ect. And where do they get these "necessities"? At the local Wal-Mart? Nope, they have to buy them from the major defense contractors that are owned by whom? Yup, the Controllers! In this country, if you investigate the Carlyle Group, you'll see how it fits parts-and-parcel into our war efforts.

*Energy* - There are huge deposits of oil in the Caspian region of Russia, and we have a plethora of pipelines already in place in the Middle East. The energy companies find immeasurable benefits in getting this oil to the pipelines. The only problem about the Caspian region is a little country sitting in between the Controllers and the oil - Afghanistan.

*Drugs* - The CIA is the largest drug dealer in the World, and has been involved in drug trafficking since its inception 50 years ago (and even before then as the OSS). All of their black budget projects are financed by drug dealing, along with money laundering, illegal arms sales, gambling, ect. Afghanistan is the World's leading producer of opium (75&#37; of the total), and a few years ago the Taliban stopped all production. Now, if the CIA is deriving huge amounts of money from heroin and opium and morphine, and all of the sudden this source "dries up" there's a problem. Well, since the Taliban were mostly eliminated from Afghanistan, guess what's back in full production again? You guessed it. The poppy fields.

In all, we need to remember that by-and-large, wars don't start with the masses. They're incited by the Controllers to "create a condition" as Abraham Lincoln's Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, said. And that's exactly what's happening right now. A New World Order is being created, and we're simply bit players in this Theatre of War.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

The Controllers' aim for centuries has been the establishment of an occult-based New World Order where national boundaries will all but be eliminated. If the Controllers are successful with implementing their NWO, there will still be certain "regions" such as the "Americas", but the World will more closely resemble modern-day Europe with a common currency and unified States. The United Nations, or a similar organization, will replace individual governments, and there will be global concepts introduced, such as a World Tax, World Court, World Anthem, and World Army.

Specifically in regard to America, there is a battle being waged between the Globalists and Nationalists (or Populists -- those who want America to retain its sovereignty and not fall under the rule of a global hierarchy). Regrettably, most of the national players that you see on TV fall under the Globalist category.

Another concept that must be considered is the United States is deliberately being undermined by its leaders who are in the employ of the Controllers. By ratifying treaties such as NAFTA and GATT and giving our technological and computer know-how to China, we're chopping ourselves off at the knees. The Industrial base upon which we built the greatest nation of all time is being eliminated at a frightening pace. Also, when you see how our military is being dispatched (thinned-out) across the globe in preparation for World War 3, you'll understand how vulnerable our position is. Keep your eye on China -- they're the key.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

In all honesty, I don't think it matters much what we have to say to Congress about these issues. Why? Except for a few rebels, Congressional members are in a position where they're more than satisfied with the status quo.

Here's my rationale: 

First of all, years ago George Wallace said, "There's not a dimes worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats." And it's true. Oh sure, it "appears" as if there is, but in reality, the entire media-political scene is nothing more than professional wrestling. How can I make such a statement? Again, because both of them have predetermined outcomes that are established out of public view, and both present the results in a dramatic fashion. 

It's an illusion, folks.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

Not only did the Controllers know about the 9-11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City, but they ALLOWED them to happen so that American oil companies could further maximize their profits in the Middle East and Caspian Region of Turkmenistan, and also because it was all part of their plan to establish their New World Order on America.

The AIDS virus did not happen "randomly", but was rather created by the World Health Organization in unison with rogue elements of the United States military in order to deliberately kill tens of millions of innocent people (or "useless eaters" as they are called by the Controllers behind closed doors). The Controllers hope that this genocidal program will only continue indefinitely until "enough of the herd has been eliminated".

The very foundation of American society - our right to a democratic vote - has been declared null-and-void, and the American people have been bamboozled for the past twenty years via "Votescam". In other words, every President in recent memory has been "selected" beforehand by a group of hidden Controllers, while the process of voting at the ballot boxes has been nothing but a ruse.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

While all these events have been taking place, the Federal Reserve, a privately-owned, for-profit corporation, along with its international bankers have been laughing until their stomachs hurt over the tax system they've created to pad their already overflowing pockets. The Controllers truly believe that the American people, and indeed the people of the World, are idiots. 

We slave away at their companies and we make them rich. Then before they throw us a few scraps via our paychecks, they take our money first. Hell, they don't even take it...they STEAL it....anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 right off the bat. We don't even see it. And every year they raise our taxes and take even more! And what do we do about it? Nothing. We don't even fight back. Nearly all of the congressmen laugh about this uproariously as they leave their sessions and hop into their limousines, which take them to fancy steak and lobster houses.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

the CIA will continue to increase its black budget drug-trafficking practices while the FBI at the same time bolsters its War on Drugs. In other words,  while the CIA will keep bringing drugs into the country, the Justice Department will keep throwing the users into jail. Who knows, they might even bring back Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" program for good measure.

David Rockefeller sits in a plush European boardroom  and elsewhere with members of the Rothschild, Morgan, Warburg, and Bronfman families, among many others, and they all sit around and chat about their New World Order agenda for the World.

And why should the Controllers be concerned? Do you know what they believe that everyone on the internet is going to do?

They believe that we're just going to continue tapping out messages on our keyboards, then rifle them off into cyberspace. They know that someone else will read them, post them on message boards, and continue tapping away. 

Hell, they sat by and watched as two jets rammed into the World Trade Center, and now we even know the truth about what they've done. WE KNOW THE TRUTH! 

But the Controllers believe that we will do nothing. They believe that all we will do is continue sending more messages on our "silly computers". It's a riot for them. 

Plus, they've actually admitted that they STEAL our money through taxation, that they've created the AIDS virus to kill us off, and that our votes DON'T matter, and that they are going to start shipping our sons and daughters off to another Vietnam type of war in Iraq to DIE so that THEY can make more profits for their energy and drug cartels.

We all know the Truth. There's no doubt about it. And what do we do? We sit in our padded chairs in front of our computer screens and we type out messages to each other. It's like, "Hey George, guess what. The government really DID know about the World Trade Center attacks, and they let them happen anyway. But oh well, back to life as usual."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

Some people might think that it troubles the Controllers that there are so many people on the Internet finding out the truth. 

But again, as far as the Controllers are concerned, why should it? None of us are doing anything about it. We can ready fifty articles a day. What do the Controllers care as long as none of us do anything about them? They laugh their asses off at all of us as we're tap tap tapping away. 

Why do you think the Controllers pushed the whole Internet idea on us anyways? To keep us secured to our computer screens and to be physically isolated from each other. It's hard for us to revolt against them when we're all sitting in front of a monitor.

However, what if we were really to get organized? What then? Well, then the Controllers would have a problem on their hands. But the good news for them, is that they control some of the most well-known "alternative" news sites on the Internet. They're nothing but front-groups that give the appearance of being legitimate, but in reality they're nothing but plants.

Some people say, "Yeah, but there is so much information on those sites." This is true, but information is useless unless it's followed by action. The Controllers don't give a damn if we know every secret in creation...alot of us already practicly do! But as long as we don't do anything, they figure they will just let us keep passing our "little articles" back and forth.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

In reality, there is currently a challenge to the Controller's authority that exists today. And if you want to know the Truth, it would be so easy for us to pull-off. All we have to do is get a growing movement of regular, everyday citizens to see through their smokescreen, and in no time the illusion would be over. 

Americans, and people of the World in general, have lost utter faith in the credibility of the Controller's mass-conditioned media. They've lost that part of the game. At the time being, most everyone questions the media, but we still tune-into channels like FOX and read _Time_ Magazine. And this is why the Controllers believe that we are all a bunch of dupes.

But if a viable alternative presents itself that is above and beyond the lies that they tell....in other words...one that tells the Truth and exposes the Controllers, then it's all over. And here's the clincher. It's a few of the crucial alternative websites that aren't lending their support by informing their readers. And do you know why? Because they're the ones that are being Controlled. They'll keep churning out articles and posting them on their sites, but when it comes down to taking action, all of a sudden these sites are strangely silent. Why? Because they work for the Controllers!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

The techniques the Controllers use with these "alternative" sites are the same ones they use in the mainstream media! They marginalize, they refuse to act, they alter and distort, and they refuse to run material or cover stories by certain people. 

I mean, why don't more of people on the Internet see through their ploys? It's so clear, and the tactics they use are older than dirt. They're blatantly screwing us in the guise of providing "secret" knowledge. But all-in-all, these "traitor" sites keep people inactive, and inaction is the Controller's greatest ally. 

It's only when people stand-up and ACT that their power is threatened. All we'd have to do is ask ourselves, "Which sites aren't promoting the Truth?", and then we'd have a starting point to figure out who the "plants" are.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 20, 2007)

And what do the Controllers expect from us all in the future? Nothing but more of the same. They've been waiting for us to rise up and REVOLT for years now, but we just keep sitting around letting them crap on us. They raise our taxes and we do nothing. They allow our Trade Centers to get attacked; then lie about if afterwards, and we still do nothing. Now they plan on sending our children into war, and we sit back and take it. 

If the Controllers were us, they'd be out in the streets in a heartbeat with torches and guns ready to string us up by our feet! Yet we keep allowing them to manipulate us over and over and over again....and we don't react. Why? 

The Controllers laugh at us and say, "C'mon, put up a fight! We're going to kill your damn kids again."

Thats all war is anyway - one slave class killing another slave class. For who? For them. The ELITE CLASS. Then they make more money, gain more control, and steal more money out of our paychecks.

It must blow their minds how we can allow them to steal our money from us, especially when they don't pay taxes at all. They've figured out years ago how to get around that "nonsense".

That's where the Controllers currently stand. They're all still firmly in control, and if the people keep tap tap tapping on their keyboards and sending articles around, then nothing will change and the status quo will prevail. But if we decide to truly organize and stop putting up with their lies, they'll be out of business before they knew what hit them!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 21, 2007)

Pure and simple -- if you want to preserve the rights and freedoms that you've become accustomed to and if you'd like to see America remain "king of the hill", then immediate, decisive action must be taken. 

I'm talking about a revolution to overthrow the Controllers that have illegally taken possession of our Government. I'm not talking about overthrowing our entire Government, however, so don't get me wrong. There is nothing inherently wrong with our Government in theory the way it was envisioned by our Founding Fathers.

No. The problems arose when the international bankers, both foreign and domestic, seized control of our money supply. That's who we need to eliminate. If we don't, I promise you that our quality of life will dramatically decrease in the coming years. But how do we get rid of these Devils? Here's the partial answer:


*1.* Abolish the Federal Reserve System.

*2.* Default on that portion of our National Debt owed to international bankers.

*3.* Return the creation of money to Congress, as it was prior to 1913.

*4.* Abolish NAFTA, GATT, and all other Globalist treaties.

*5.* Impose tariffs on every product imported into this country.


Do we have the guts and courage to save this nation, or are we going to roll over and play dead? The Controllers have committed so many crimes and atrocities against the American people, it's time to retaliate. 

There's an individual named Rick Stanley who was talking about organizing a "Million Gun March" as a show of force against the Controllers. A display of force so to speak. Non-violent of course, but effective none of the less.

His idea is to March on Washington, D.C. and to assemble in large numbers with guns in hand, or if you don't like guns, then take a shovel, broom, torch, or whatever else would have an impact and SHOW the Controllers that we're not going to allow them to hold us hostage any longer.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 21, 2007)

I hear it all the time: somebody should do something to change the way things are in this country. But the big question is: who's going to be the ones to step forward and change things? 

Well, let's see. Is it going to be the Controllers/Ruling class? Hell, no. They're the ones responsible for putting the World in this predicament in the first place. They're the Evil Princes of the Earth - the manipulators - the usurers - the death-mongers - and the bloodsuckers. These are the Sons of Darkness, the ones who have the money, resources and technology to feed every person in the World, and yet they allow 100,000 people to die of starvation every day. These are the psychotic Nazi eugenicists who created a godawful AIDS virus to wipe out large segments of the population.

These are the same Controllers who steal our money through taxation and interest-bearing loans to our Government. They've devised a way to steal our voices at the ballot boxes via electronic "Votescam", and sat by and watched the New York City terrorist attacks without doing anything to stop them. These are the people looking to proceed with more of their pervasive Big Brother tactics. 

When one looks around the World and sees a multitude of horrors, often the Controllers' invisible hand is behind the scenes pulling the strings.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 21, 2007)

The ruling class are the manipulators, the provocateurs; a leisure-class of bloodline-obsessed power freaks who conceal their motives, identity, and sources of hidden occult knowledge to further propagate their Elitist status at the expense of all else (including the future of this planet and Humankind itself).

Why doesn't somebody do something about these sadistic control junkies? That's a good question, especially when those with the most ability to affect serious change in the World - the Enforcement Class - are so attached to "vested interests" that they refuse to do what's right because it might affect their vaunted "position in life".

What do I mean? Well, most every member of the Enforcement Class - the military, police, politicians, judges, lawyers, and media (among others) realize there are things seriously wrong with this country - but they still have it better than most - so they figure why upset the apple-cart?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 21, 2007)

There are alot more of US than there are of them, and that scares the hell out of the ones at the top of the Control Pyramid.

If no one else is willing or able to take the initiative to change our World, who else is left? The Outlaws! Thats who. Our last hope. The final vestige for change.

The Outlaws - those who stand outside the conditioning process - those who refuse to bow down and conform - those who can see beyond the veils, lies and illusion. The Outlaws - those who are sick and tired of the status quo crimes and corruption - those who are truly committed to taking us to the next level rather than allowing these creeps to keep dragging us down.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 21, 2007)

In all honesty, take a look at the World the Controllers have created. Has anything dramatically changed in the last 2,000 years? We have people starving to death, murderers, rapists, greedy politicians, and an overall system that is corrupt to the core which benefits the wealthy while enslaving those beneath them.

Are you content on being a dirty-dog slave that the Controllers use, manipulate, spit upon and ultimately laugh at as fools? Do you like the sound of this scenario? Does it fill you with an overwhelming sense of life-affirming pride and joy? Do you prefer having a boot stomping on your face, or are you finally fed-up with their crap?

If you are fed up, then it's time to become an OUTLAW - a rebel against the status quo - one who's ready to tear down the current system and eliminate completely those Controllers who've turned our World into one on the brink of WWIII. 

It's either that, or we can shrug our shoulders and say, "Oh well, that's the way things have always been" -- as the Elite Globalists steal more of your money and throw salt on your open wounds. And as you slave away another day.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 21, 2007)

The Controllers would like nothing more than to eradicate our rebellious voices. 

Isn't it obvious? Who are you aligning yourself with folks? The Big Brother Overlord who spits on you and enslaves you. or those who seek Freedom and Truth? At the end of George Orwell's _1984_, the people are so resigned, conditioned, and accepting of their overbearing tyranny, that they come to LOVE it.

America is in dire straits, and if we want to change our situation and save this great nation, we're going to have to do it ourselves. The media won't help because they are a conditioning tool used by the Controllers to keep us in line. The military is only interested in feeding their bloodthirsty War Machine, and the Democrats and Republicans are merely two heads of the same single-bodied serpent.

The legal system gets its kick from laws and steel bars and handcuffs (all of which are utilized to once again keep us in line), and secret societies conceal their knowledge to preserve; then expand, their power base. 

In other words, none of these forces are ultimately on OUR side.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 21, 2007)

So, is everything hopeless? Hardly. But how can we overcome so many entrenched institutions? Easy. For once in our lives we need to join together instead of letting the Controllers divide and conquer us. Rather than our usual battles - black vs. white, men vs. women, liberal vs. conservative, rich vs. poor, or Catholic vs. Protestant, we need to ally ourselves with our only hope - US.

If we don't I GUARANTEE you that in the next few years, not only will things not be better for us; they'll be worse. And passing information from one computer to the next is not enough. It takes ACTION - a revolution of information, economics, and outlook. We need to change our way of thinking and then run the Controllers out of town. EVERY TOWN.

It's now up to you! Are you willing to settle for the status quo, or do you seek a better life for yourself, your family, and your nation? We need action, and we need a REVOLUTION!

It's now or never. If we don't get organized and take back our country, it's all over. It's up to you to decide if America is worth saving, or if we're going to let the Controllers steamroll over us.

I'm ready and willing to do my part!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

"Cautious, careful people, always casting about to preserve their reputation and social standing, never can bring about a reform. Those who are really in earnest must be willing to be anything or nothing in the World's estimation, and publicly and privately, in season and out, avow their sympathy with despised and persecuted ideas and their advocates, and bear the consequences."

*Susan B. Anthony*


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

"An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law."

*Martin Luther King, Jr.*


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

In my city, everyone's talking about college football these days. Soon, the hot topic will be our upcoming holiday season. Like so many Americans across the nation, my community appears to be slowly sleepwalking right through the passage of both the Patriot Act and the newly enacted Homeland Security legislation.

The people of my community seem for the most part unaware of these events and continue about their lives with a "business as usual" mentality. Out on the street,  in resteraunts, and in the bars, no one is talking much about these important issues. Everyone seems completely insulated from what is taking place in their own country. The World directly in front of their eyes is the only one they see, and the only one in which they live. 

Citizens across the country suffer from a similar affliction. Maybe that is why the voices of the People of America are not being heard. Most of the "People" aren't talking about things that matter.

As I walk along the streets of my city, snippets of conversation drift by, and it boggles my mind to know that I am but one of a small minority that even realizes just how fragile is the thread that connects us to our freedom. I want to characterize it as ignorance, but it's more than that. It's disinterest. I would be lying if I said that people seem to be worried about what's happening to their country. So I won't lie.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

America, I'm trying to reach you. Can you hear me? I'm feeling for some faint pulse that tells me you're alive - and I'm having trouble finding it. Tell me, how can you remain oblivious to the destruction of your way of life...of the erosion of your liberty? While you sit in your little worlds, wrapped up in your personal agendas, focused on college football and other "really important stuff", your "Government" is insidiously erasing what's left of your sovereignty, your privacy, your right to self-govern - YOU - and they're doing it right before your eyes. What do you say, America?

While the majority of you lie sleeping at night, insulated from and blind to the reality that is all but smacking you in the face, there are others out there like me who lie in our beds at night restless with misgivings, wide awake and wondering as to what the dawn will bring. The "disconnect" is more than perceptible; the chasm so wide I have doubts it can ever be bridged. To initiate discussion among those who remain unaware or apathetic to the current state of the Union is to suffer the wrath of those who mock what they fail to understand. Let's just say I raise more than a few eyebrows when I talk to people around my community.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

I know how our ancestors must have felt at the time of the American Revolution. I can feel their presence around me like a whisper of conscience. They stand at every shoulder of every Patriot - and I don't mean the ones with the flags and stickers all over their vehicles. I'm talking about the REAL Patriots like those who drove to Washington, D.C. for Freedom Drive 2002. Their voices are the voices of justice. Their words ring with life, with passion, with principle. 

Like our predecessors, the real Patriots are people of courage and conviction. If they know fear - and I believe they do - they don't let it defeat them or dictate their actions. True Patriots stand to face the winds rather than bowing to them.

Our ancestors knew that in order to defeat the enemy, they would have to stand together and rise above their fear. This, they did - which is why the "concept" of America ever got off the ground in the first place.

Open your eyes people. There's more to life than football and Christmas parties. I hate to bring this up, but those presents you're saving up for aren't the only things that will cost you. 

I am reminded of the Korean War Memorial, which summed it up perfectly: "Freedom is Not Free". 

People. The bell is not merely ringing - the bell is TOLLING - if you can't hear it by now, maybe you're not sleeping. Maybe your dead.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

If Paul Revere were to ride through the streets of my city on one of these very dark nights and sound the warning to every man, woman and child throughout, who would hear him? Would you, Joe Q. Citizen? Would you rise from your slumber and take up your arms? Would you even roll over in your bed? God, I hope so. DO you know that those liberties you possessed just yesterday may not apply to you today? Which of your "freedoms" will you kiss goodbye tomorrow? Can you hear me?

I am calling to you, America. Shake off the cobwebs that have gathered in your brain and sniff the Revolution in the air. It's not something you're familiar with because life has been easier for you than it was for those who came before you. But it is there, nonetheless. 

Regardless of how much your ranking in the World's estimation might matter to you, believe me when I tell you that it matters NOT. Besides, you will rank even lower if you sit back and let your country die without at least trying to save her. And if you do that, then all those that have come and gone before you - those brave souls who fought and gave their lives to save her - will have died for nothing. They died for YOU and me. Remember that.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

The Patriots of the coming Revolution are standing in the midst of this madness. On the horizon looms more of the atrocity we've seen in recent times, only far worse and more all-encompassing. By virtue of its magnitude, it will dissolve any feelings of disconnection the majority of unsuspecting folks currently feel at the present time. We are in for another "jolt" by the powers-that-be. Will you arise when that "jolt" shakes you from your slumber, America? Will that far-reaching catastrophe get your heart pumping again?

You see, on the inside, I keep a flicker of hope burning for America to survive. There are others out there, scattered here and there, who also carry this flame. These people bear proudly the tattered vestiges of what's left of our heritage. They are the scorned and reviled, the dissidents and the radicals. We also know them as Patriots. Seldom acknowledged for what they do, they still stand at the ready for the worst, which is inevitably yet to come.

I don't know if America is ruined, but she sure is fading fast. Her light is dimmed and her breath shallow. How long will she last at this rate? We are but a blink away from losing her forever. And once she is gone, we will not be able to breath the life back into her. Are you ready to face that day? I'm not.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 22, 2007)

My hope still lives. Regardless of how the rest of the World or my countrymen see me, I will hear the rallying cry of Revolution when it comes, and I will be on my feet and ready for the chips to fall where they may. 

What about you, America? When the winds shift, will you stand and face them with courage, or simply sit and let them blow you off the map? 

This generation - ours - has the chance to bend history. If we don't embrace this one opportunity we now have, then we willingly and recklessly forfeit those freedoms given to us so long ago by men of great courage and conscience. 

Does this generation posess that kind of strength of character? It makes me wonder. 

America, can you hear me? You really need to wake up now. Tomorrow may be too late.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

Ok now it's time for the next section folks. The Pole-Shift section. This section is about the coming Pole-Shift which will wreak havoc on our planet very soon in order to purify it and raise it to an entirely new level of consciousness and vibration frequency. 

Those who can not match the vibration frequency of the "New Earth" will no longer remain. Many will be wiped out by the Pole-Shift before they have a chance to anyways.

The Earth has accumulated too much negativity and is ready to be purified for the coming Age of Peace. It didn't necessarily have to happen this way, but because of the amount of materialism and greed that has developed on our planet, it is now definately going to happen.

With the new vibrations after December 21, 2012, our planet will rise in the scale of Peace and Truth. It will be like at no other time in history. During the process from 2005-2012, those who are currently in control of societies and the money system of the World, and who are masking evil intentions, will be trying to spread as much fear and hatred in the World as possible as to drag down as many people as they can along with them. 

Simply stated, they (the negative Beings) know that their time is soon coming to an end, and they don't want to be alone when they leave.

So...without further ado...I would like to state that the Pole Shift IS going to happen, but the only timeframe that I can provide for you as far as when it is going to happen is anywhere from the year 2009 to the date of December 21, 2012. Anywhere in between that timeframe is when the Pole Shift is going to happen. I can't provide an exact date and time unfortunately, but just know that it won't be before 2009, and it won't be after December 21, 2012. But it can happen anytime in between.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

Before I begin speaking about the Pole-Shift, I would first like to answer a very important question that many people might be thinking to themselves, which is "Do the Controllers know that the Pole-Shift is coming?"

And the answer to that question is YES. You bet your ass they do. =)

And not only that, but they have been preparing for it because they don't completely understand the nature of what is actually going to happen to the Earth.

They have been digging underground tunnels and creating underground "safe houses" so to speak and stocking them up with food and supplies because they actually believe that they will be protected from the Pole-Shift and that they will be able to remain in "form" after the changes take place.

This is completely untrue. No matter how much digging they do, and how much storing they do, or how much planning they do, it won't matter. Because after the surface of our planet raises in Dimensional status from the 3rd to the 5th, no negative Being will be able to hold their form. So all of their pre-planning is in vein. But we'll get into that later.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

The truth is that the Controllers have been building underground bases for sometime now. For various different reasons, and not always partaining to the coming Shift of the Poles.

Such reasons for their bases have included experimental projects, on Animals as well as Human Beings.

Now I realize that this might be very hard for many people to believe, but it is in fact the truth. Socrates and Plato both wrote about men living in subterranean chambers. Hell, where do you guys think our first Human race lived when they came from Atlantis and Lemuria? Look at the Egyptians and Incas and Mayans and Aztecs. They all hollowed out the Earth and lived underground.

People have to start paying more attention. This country (America) has underground bases all over the place. Tons of them. And there are many more around the World.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

There is a famous underground base that the Controllers have created right in Pennsylvania. It's called Raven Rock, or Site R.

Where is it you say?

It's down south between Gettysburg and Hagerstown. It's unbelievable. They call it the Underground Pentagon, and it's stocked with all these super-computers, a full-scale communications network, storage tanks with over two million liters of water, plus a hospital, huge banks of sophisticated telephone equipment, and it's even linked by an underground tunnel to Camp David. If a nuclear war ever breaks out, this is where all the hot shots are going to be called to.

Then of course we have NORAD in Colorado. Camp David also has an underground bunker, and the White House...get this...goes down at least 17 stories underground. 

Again, all this seems pritty hard to believe huh? Well, believe it folks, because it's true.


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## Annie (Feb 25, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> There is a famous underground base that the Controllers have created right in Pennsylvania. It's called Raven Rock, or Site R.
> 
> Where is it you say?
> 
> ...


Wow, have you been there?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

It doesn't end there though folks. How about Mt. Pony in Virginia that's used as an underground Treasury Department. I hear they have billions in storage there. Or how about the Greenbriar Hotel in West Virginia. This underground palace can hold almost 1,000 people. That's where the U.S. Congress will go in case of a disaster.

The National Security Agency in Maryland has thousands of the most complex supercomputers known to man underneath their headquarters, plus scores of suveillance equipment, telephones, and a radio and television station. This is where the CIA will be calling their shots from. 

And oh, how could I forget about Manzano Air Force Base? This monstrosity is almost 300,000 square feet, with 95% of it underground. It's a pretty safe bet to say that there is alot of activity going on down there, too.

In fact, I have heard that there are at least 90 different Government building projects going on underground right now, but it's not only them. Lockheed has underground facilities, and so do AT&T and Standard Oil. Plus, Northrop has an underground facility that's at least 40 levels deep, and McDonnel Douglas operates a place that has runways that lead to openings where planes can taxi into an underground hangar! Quite a joint indeed. They have diomand-shaped openings where huge pylons pop out of the ground, then go back down again. And then of course there's the Dulce underground base, with interesting doors. All of them have signs that are written in a strange language  with stange symbols that can't be deciphered by anyone but the people who put them there.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Wow, have you been there?



We're getting into some touchy subjects here. I've not been there myself but lets just say that my source is extremely credible. 

Take it or leave it it's up to you.


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## Annie (Feb 25, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> We're getting into some touchy subjects here. I've not been there myself but lets just say that my source is extremely credible.
> 
> Take it or leave it it's up to you.


Well that certainly was authoratative. Sigh.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

Folks, you would be surprised at what the Government doesn't tell you.

It's like another whole World is being built underground that barely any one knows about. 

Some of the Oriental cities in Asia are building underground bases as well with a vengeance, while the Russians are spending billions on a huge complex in the Ural Mountains. So, you see, it's going on everywhere.

But the big daddy of them all folks. The king of all the underground bases, is called Mount Weather and it's in Bluemont, Virginia.

Mount Weather is the underground headquarters for FEMA. And it's quite spooky to say the least. Once you get to the entrance, you see this huge steel door that is so thick, 50 sticks of dynamite couldn't rip through it. And then, inside, all the offices are reinforced with concrete and steel, while there are security personnel everywhere....all of them with hand guns or assault rifles.

It's amazing. There's a full scale power plant, a hospital, a sewage treatment facility, plus an underground pond, and these quarter-million gallon tanks that are filled with drinking water.

Kinda like a real city folks. There are sidewalks, a cafeteria, paved streets, a diesel-powered generating plant, and closed circuit television cameras that monitor everything. Plus, everything is being run by electromagnetic energy that's built into the walls. None of the elevators even have cables or electrical controls...it's all electromagnetic.

And folks, do you know that when this place was being built in 1952, and finished in 1958, it cost over a billion dollars...and that was 1950's dollars! Can you imagine how much it costs to maintain this joint, especially with close to 300 full-time federal employees working there, and the massive computer network they have to keep upgrading and maintaining? It's outrageous!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

The United States Government has at least 100 other facilities...not as large, mind you...but they're in Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina, and West Virginia. But Mount Weather is the king of the hill...the big daddy.

Ok so now you guys might be wondering, "Why would the Government be going through all this trouble to make these underground bases?" Well, back to what I said before folks, it's because they're housing the backup Government that they plan to have take over when disaster strikes...a disaster that would be either real or created.

But what they need to know, and what many people already do know, as that related to the Pole-Shift, there is absolutely NOTHING that they can do when it comes, and NOTHING that they can do afterwards. So much of what they are doing will amount to nothing, except for the fact that centuries later, or even thousands of years later, when their underground bases are dug up sort of like how tombs and pyramids in Egypt are being excavated, the people who live on the planet a Millennia from now we'll be able to do the exact same thing that we're doing in Egypt with all these Governmental underground bases.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 25, 2007)

In terms of the backup Government inside Mount Weather....no one knows exactly who these people are...except for themselves and those closest to them. No one else knows who belongs to their shadow Government. All I can tell you is that none of them are elected, and that their terms aren't limited by the four-year presidential election cycle.

In other words folks, they're a Government unto themselves, completely unaccountable to anyone except the power Elite.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 26, 2007)

There was a man named Phil Schneider, the son of a German U-boat Commander in World War 2, who was commissioned to build a number of deep underground bases in the United States. 

He had taken the high-road and given many lectures about underground networks of bases since then. In his lectures, he spoke about many underground cities and tunnels.

He later died in very suspicious circumstances which were meant to appear like "suicide".

Here is a video clip of one of Phil Schneider's last lectures.

In the video, he talks about how he is breaking his security oaths to do it. And talks about how he "didn't know how long he would be around to do it".

To watch the video clip just clink on the following link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8180572860678943465&q=schneider+phil


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 26, 2007)

Then of course we have the famous Area 51 in Nevada, which everyone already knows about.

But to speak more about the Dulce underground base for a second, which is connected by the tunnel network to the Los Alamos National Laboratory. 

There are many organizations involved in the Ducle operation and they are organizations like the Rand Corporation, General Electric, AT&T, Hughes Aircraft, Northrop Corporation, Sandia Corporation, Stanford Research Institute, Walsh Construction, the Bechtel (Beck-tul) Corporation, the Colorado School of Mines and so on.

There are at least seven levels underground at Dulce, probably more, and there have been accounts of workers there who have described horrible things.

Another underground base is under Boynton Canyon in Sedona, Arizona.  The centre of the base is believed to be in the, appropriately named, Secret Canyon.

Similar underground cities exist across the World and they are connected by tunnels with incredibly fast "tube-shuttles".


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 26, 2007)

Another place that has an underground base and which is fairly new is the Denver Airport.

The Airport was built at an enormous cost on open land a long way from Denver and its full of Masonic symbols. The Capstone or dedication stone at the airport is marked with a classic compass symbol of the Freemasons and it stands in the part of the terminal called The Great Hall, another Freemasonic term.

On the wall of the airport is a grotesque mural full of malevolent symbolism, including three caskets with dead females in them; a Jewish girl, a Native American and a black woman. Another girl is holding a Mayan tablet that tells of the coming destruction of our civilization (The Pole-Shift). A huge character, described as a "green Darth Vader" by some, stands over a destroyed city with a sword in his hand and women are walking along a road holding dead babies. All the children of the World are depicted taking weapons from each country and handing them to a figure of a German boy with an iron fist and an anvil in his hand.

The Denver Airport is apparently scheduled to be the headquarters of the Western sector of the United States under the Controller's fascist global state called the New World Order which is planned for the next few years. Atlanta is said to be the centre for the Eastern sector of the United States.

Colorado is a major centre for the New World Order point blank.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 26, 2007)

Here is a video clip of the exact Mural at the Denver Airport.

From the video, you can clearly see the Controller's plans for the New World Order, as well as proof that the Controller's know about the coming Pole-Shift.

I wouldn't recommend skipping this one if you expect to know what they have planned for the World.

To watch the video clip of the mural at the Denver Airport, just click on the link below:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHKrEFiDn6E&mode=related&search=[/ame]


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 26, 2007)

So when the Pole-Shift disaster strikes, does anyone on this board really believe that any of us or any other "regular" civilian would be allowed inside of Mount Weather to be "safe"? 

Because if you do, think again. The Controller's don't give a damn about you OR your family members.

Why do you think they have the steel doors and armed guards? They sure as hell don't want _us_ there.

But we keep paying for all of their projects with our taxes in order for them to continue building these underground structures. And we also pay for them to maintain them. Yet, when disaster strikes, we won't be allowed anywhere near their bases.

Just keep watching your paycheck and seeing how much they're taking out every week. Some of it is going to support a newly planned underground capital!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 26, 2007)

Why doesn't anyone know who these people are who're running the show down there? It's absurd.

Well, to clue people in on some of the people who are part of this whole betrayel process, there is a cabal of men known as the 54/12 Group that is an offshoot of the National Security Council. These men are at the core of the Invisible Government...the hidden power center.

The 54/12 Group works hand in hand with another organization called the Jason Group. The Jason Group is a selective cadre of scientists who have capitalized on the dark side of technology.

Whenever you are dealing with these shadow powers, you have to realize that their tentacles extend in every direction, and they operate on a variety of different levels. So, first you have the Ultimate Controllers, then the 54/12 Group, then the Jason Group. Then, acting as the operational arms of this octopus is the Bechtel Corporation.

The Bechtel Corporation is a very shadowy international corporation that serves as an arm of the CIA.

And what does Bechtel do? They're the largest construction and engineering company on the planet...almost like a form of shadow government in and of themselves.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 27, 2007)

Many of the groups I listed previously are all part of an operation called "The Doomsday Project".

And what is the Doomsday Project?

Well, about twenty years ago, during the Reagan presidency, there were about 20 different programs that were started....in secret, of course...that revolved around how our Government would perpetuate itself in times of nuclear war or global disaster.

These programs have been going on for decades, but that's when the Controller's technology developed to a point where Project Rand could be acted upon instead of just imagined.

There is a very telling quote that came out of Project Rand's symposium on Deep Underground Construction. It went like this: "Just as airplanes, ships and automobiles have given man mastery of the surface of the Earth, tunnel-boring machines will give him access to the subterranean World."


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 27, 2007)

The Controllers have a machine called a Subterrene that would blow most people's minds. It's nuclear-powered, and it snarls through the underground rocks by melting the stone into molten magma. It's amazing. Then, when the Subterrene burrows through a certain area, the rocks cool back down and the walls have a very fine, almost glass-like quality to them.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 27, 2007)

But it goes beyond simple underground bases folks. There's a secret project called "Noah's Ark" where many of these complexes are connected by underground tunnels and where people can shuttle back and forth between them without ever being detected by anyone up here on the surface.

And do people really want to know what the Controllers have been doing down there all this time? The same thing they have been doing at almost all the underground bases - they're developing new technologies, and preparing for a catastrophic disaster that's going to hit the Earth (The Pole-Shift).

But the worst part of all of this folks, is who do you think is paying for all these underground bases that the Controllers plan to hide out in when all this goes down? Do you think they are? Hell no! It's us, through taxation! This is what it all boils down to.

People should look into all the stuff that is going down in Antarctica. Look on the internet sometime and you will find out.

Can't people see? We're the slaves that are allowing them to not only destroy our planet, but also to believe that they can move onto greener pastures and SURVIVE! But do you think they are going to invite any of us along for the ride? Not a chance! They believe that we are going to continue to pay for their underground bases, and also for their escape (Which is not coming for them, they only think it is).


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 27, 2007)

Going back to what I posted awhile back, if you look at all the structures like the Great Wall of China, or those fantastic castles and churches in Europe, it's easy to think to yourself and wonder, man, the people that built them....that did the actual construction...must have been so angry at their situation. I mean, they were nothing more than slaves or serfs working for someone from the Elite class. And they got paid chump change, if anything at all.

But then after awhile of thinking about it, how can one not come to the conclusion that We're the same as them! We're the serfs and the slaves that are allowing ourselves to be taxed to death while at the same time paying for the Controller's believed escape. And do you think they'll invite any of us along for the party? No way. The only thing they plan to do for any of us is have us continue digging their ditches, building new places for them, and shoveling the crap out of their sewers.

Why do we keep letting them get away with this? This is as close to the truth about the Controllers as they want you to get. They are destroying our planet with all their fossil fuel programs, and they even plan to escape the onslaught of the Pole-Shift (which they won't)! They create new secret societies all the time, and perpetuate this system all over again.

If someone is honest, they usually tend to believe what people tell them. And this has proven to be true especially with the Controllers. But folks, the people who believe that they control our World are a different breed. These folks have spent generation after generation living a lie. Their entire make-up and existence is nothing but a lie. In fact, they're the Children of all Lies!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

In the following section I plan on answering the following 5 questions for those who are curious in finding out the answers.

These 5 questions that I plan to have answered by the time I am finished are: 

*1.* What is a Pole-Shift? 

*2.* Has it ever happened before? 

*3.* What happens during a Pole-Shift? 

*4.* Where are the safest places to be during a Pole-Shift? 

*5.* When can we expect the next Pole-Shift?


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

*THE COMING POLE-SHIFT*


A pole shift refers to the Earth's magnetic field reversing its polarity. If a magnetic reversal occurred today, compasses would point south rather than north. 

Dynamic processes taking place deep inside the planet generate the Earth's magnetic field. A core of molten iron surrounds the inner core of solid iron, each rotating at different rates. Their interaction, and perhaps other geophysical processes not yet understood, creates what scientists call a "hydromagnetic dynamo." This self-perpetuating electric field acts in some ways like a gigantic bar magnet. The Earth's magnetic field extends into space for tens of thousands of miles from the planet's poles. It not only protects the Earth from solar radiation but plays a fundamental role in overall climate, weather patterns, and migratory habits of animals. 

If the poles were to reverse instantly, many scientists believe that the destruction would be global, from earthquakes and volcanic eruptions to the melting of Arctic ice and vast flooding. However, some evidence suggests that pole shifts may happen gradually taking anywhere from 1,000 &#8212; 28,000 years. Some people believe that the last four flip-flops took about 7,000 years each.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

Alot of evidence for pole shifts came unexpectedly in the 1950s while exploring seafloor spreading along the mid-Atlantic ridge. Here molten material wells up, cools and hardens, creating new sea crust, pushing the old crust outwards. Magnetic particles or iron oxides in the lava act like tiny compass needles, aligning themselves with the magnetic field, leaving a permanent record of the Earth's polarity at the time the crust is created. By reading the orientation of the oxides at various distances out from the point of welling, scientists can "look back in time." What they found was striping or alternating bands -- periods of reversal throughout history.

Some researchers believe a pole shift is underway today because the magnetic field has decreased in intensity as much as 10% - 15% over the last 150 years, with the rate of decay increasing more significantly in recent years. 

A weakening magnetic field is a precursor to Pole Shifts. And In the case of a pole shift, once the magnetic field weakens enough, the field directions undergo a near-180 degree switch before strengthening and stabilizing in the new orientation. However, scientists don't really know how long this process takes. What is known is that it takes twice as long at the poles as at the equator. So while compasses at the mid-latitudes might point south after a 3,000-year transition, compasses at the poles might continue to point north for another 3,000 years.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

A pole shift is a hypothesis based on geologic evidence that the physical north and south poles of Earth have not always been at their present-day locations; in other words, the axis of rotation had been "shifted". Pole shift theory is almost always discussed in the context of Earth, but other solar system bodies may have experienced axial reorientation during their existences. 

Pole shifts are a cataclysmic inversion of the planet's axis of rotation, up to 180 degrees; a sudden slippage of the planet's solid crust around the molten core. There are several major scientists of this century that also expouse this concept as an event that has happened before in Earth's past. 

Geographic axis: man-made arbitrary north-south fixed reference that determines lines of longitude and latitude, and the geographic North and South Poles. 

Axis of instantaneous rotation: the true astronomical axis; the rotation axis. The line drawn through the Earth about which it is actually rotating at any point in time. The points where the line cuts through the earth's surface are called the "rotation poles"; the visualised extention of the north axis line in space currently points to the star Polaris, the North Star.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

The combinations, and movements, of these masses with gravitational, centrifugal and orbital velocity vector forces, create what we call the equatorial bulge, and thus, the axis of figure. If the Earth were a perfect sphere, there would not be such an axis. 

The angular difference between the astronomical axis and the axis of figure, called a "nutation", causes an Earth orbital spirical oscillation, known as the famous Chandler "wobble". The equatorial bulge, the rotation axis' angle of inclination to the ecliptic plane, the gravitational tidal forces of the Sun, Moon and planets, have an affect on the Earths' orbit that produces the famous precession of the equinoxes. 

Axial Tilt: the ecliptic is the plane of the Earth's ellipsoidal orbital path around the sun; the rotation axis is currently inclined to the ecliptic by an angle of 23.5 degrees: this is called the obliquity, or tilt, of the axis. It is this axial tilt that causes our annual seasons. Due to orbital dynamics, the obliquity varies between a minimum of 21 degs. 39 mins. and a maximum of 24 degs. 36 mins. over a 41,000 year cycle. The axial tilt's rate of change, (angular differentiation), is currently measured as .013 degs. per century. 

Axis of maximum moment of inertia = the axis of figure: because the Earth is not a perfect sphere, but is physically an oblate spheroid, the position of the axis of figure is not a precise constant, but is affected by the constant change in the earth's distribution of total mass: (ie, by ocean tides, atmospheric conditions, plate tectonic movements, etc.).


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

Through paleomagnetism, (the study of the magnetic properties of rocks), scientists now have solid proof that the earth's magnetic field, and thus the geomagnetic north and south poles, have reversed itself namy times in the past. Magnetic field polarity reversals are magnetic poleshifts. The geologic record also shows that the strength of the magnetic field varies widely in time, and fluctuates wildly during field reversals, sometimes dropping to zero gauss strength; ie: the field vanishes, disappears! It is also a proven fact that the magnetic poles wander, literally zig-zagging around its axis. 

A geomagnetic reversal is a change in the orientation of Earth's magnetic field such that the positions of magnetic north and magnetic south become interchanged. These events, which typically last a few hundred to a few thousands years, often involve an extended decline in field strength followed by a rapid recovery after the new orientation has been established. 

Geomagnetic axis: not to be confused with the geographical axis, as it often times is. The Earth's magnetic field (whose real source is still an ongoing scientific mystery, but generally attributed to the interactions between the interior molten convection currents and the nickle-iron core, generating an electromagnetic force field, coupled with the rotational and orbital forces), itself has, by its own lines of force through space, the magnetosphere, a north- south axis. At present, the angular difference between geographic and geo- magnetic north poles is about 11 degrees.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

Over very long periods, geomagnetic reversals seems to have occurred with a frequency of 1 to 5 events per million years; however, this duration is highly variable. During some periods of geologic time (e.g. Cretaceous long normal), the Earth's magnetic field is observed to maintain a single orientation for tens of millions of years. Other events seem to have occurred very rapidly, with more than one reversal in 50,000 years.

Based upon the study of lava formations in Hawaii, it has been deduced that the Earth's magnetic field reverses at intervals, ranging from tens of thousands to many millions of years, with an average interval of approximately 250,000 years.

Using a magnetic detector (a variant of a compass), scientists have measured the historical direction of the Earth's magnetic field, by studying the layered iron-rich lava rocks. This is possible as each layer has been found to maintain the original magnetic field at its time of cooling. They have found that the poles have shifted a number of times throughout the past.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

The Earth has a peculiar gyrating motion that creates a nearly 26,000-year cycle. During this cycle, the position of the Sun, at the moment of the vernal (spring) equinox, appears to shift through the thirteen constellations of the zodiac, spending approximately 2000 years in each one. Around 10,500 BCE, the Sun, at vernal equinox, was entering the constellation of Leo the Lion (Age of Leo). Presently this "age" marker is in the constellation of Pisces the Fish (Age of Pisces) and moving toward Aquarius the Water Bearer (Age of Aquarius).

In addition to the movement of the equinox, the poles of the Earth also appear to move through different constellations of stars. Imagine the Earth's north pole as a crown chakra. The stars directly above this opening would be suggestive of the Earth's "spiritual connection".


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

Earth does not rotate in a straight up and down position, but rather it is tilted on its axis some 23 1/2 degrees off center. If you have been to a planetarium you may have noticed that Earth is always shown tilted relative to the Sun and the other planets in our solar system. Any change in this angle would mean instant changes in weather and temperature. 

Further, Earth is surrounded by a magnetic field that flows from pole to pole. Each pole has an opposite polarity from the other, and is referred to as the North or South Pole. As a general rule, Earth experiences deviations in the magnetic field on a regular basis. Pilots and sea captains know about magnetic deviations only too well and must rely on frequently updated navigation charts to safely guide their planes or boats. These deviations may vary from a few degrees to ten, or so, and move back and forth in a somewhat predictable manner.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

The cause of magnetic deviation is not really known; just as the cause of Earth's magnetic field is not known. One possibility is that magnetic deviations are due to the fact that Earth does not rotate perfectly, but wobbles slightly on its axis. There is a short period wobble lasting up to 6 years, known as the Chandler Wobble. And there is a 26 thousand-year long period wobble known as the precession of the equinoxes. 

The 26 thousand-year cycle is well known. It is the precession of the equinoxes that gives us our twelve signs of the zodiac. Each sign lasts approximately 2,100 years. We are currently at the very beginning of the sign of Aquarius, just moving away from the sign of Pisces. 

The angle of the axis is not as fixed as we might believe, and at times in our history the axis has exceeded even these well-known deviations, as they will do in our lifetime.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

During the past several years, the Chandler Wobble has been intensifying at an increasing rate, making the wobble more elliptical in nature. This could be caused by a change in the rotation of Earth's core relative to the outer crust. These kinds of changes leave an enormous impact on the planet, such as an increase in the intensity of earthquakes and volcanism, the more violent and longer lasting El Ninos that we have experienced and other weather related phenomena. Further, it very well may be that the current extreme Chandler Wobble may be a precursor to a pole shift. 

Magnetic pole shifts are the most studied and documented of pole shifts. Scientifically we know that there have been thousands of such shifts. In some cases Earth's magnetic poles have shifted as much as 180 degrees, a complete reversal. When this happens, your magnet would point in the opposite direction from where it was originally pointed. 

The Sun just recently in the past few years has experienced a magnetic pole shift. In this case the Sun's north magnetic pole became south and south became north. Earth's geomagnetic pole shifts have not always been a complete reversal. They have moved anywhere from a few degrees to 180 degrees.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

When a magnetic pole shift occurs, it can remain in the changed position for thousands of years or less than one year. How do we know this? Scientific teams from around the world have, for decades, been conducting test borings both on land and on the ocean floor. By drilling thousands of feet into the ground, core samples can be brought up and analyzed as to the magnetic qualities of the material. Small magnetics found in the soil tell scientists the relative position and strength of the magnetic field at any given depth. By carbon dating the samples they also know the relative age.


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 28, 2007)

So that is just a basic understanding of what a Pole-Shift actually is.

Next time I plan on tackling in detail the question of "Has a Pole-Shift ever happened before?"


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 1, 2007)

In the past 15 million years many scientists have come to the conclusion that pole shifts occurred four times every 1 million years. Though this averages out to once every 250,000 years, these scientists do not believe that switches occur at regular intervals. During one period in the Cretaceous, it is believed by many scientists that polarity remained constant for as long as 30 million years, though this is also believed by them to be an anomaly. 

According to many people, the last GREAT Pole-Shift occurred around 200,000 years ago; causing some scientists to believe that we're due for another one, while others speculate a reversal is already underway. Smaller Pole-Shifts have occurred since then, which have been just as catastrophic in a Global sense, but a Giant one happened around that time which coincides perfectly with the stories of the Fall of the Lost Civilization of Atlantis.

However, many earth scientists believe that global cataclysms are exceeedingly rare, and relegated to some dim past. And so, in a world of limited financial resources, not worth much serious attention. How unfortunate for those particular scientists when it actually happens again.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 1, 2007)

On the other side of the equation, many others understand that--as is true with local disasters such as earthquakes--if you haven't had one for a long time, that usually means you're closer to one happening than you were yesterday.

In any case, although the possibility, even the probability of some event in the future may be enhanced if something like it can be proven to have already occured, its being possible in the future does not depend on whether it has already happened. So the best proof about past events, one way or the other, is not automatic proof of future events.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Here are some interesting little tid-bits of information relating to the fact that Pole-Shifts have occurred in the distant and relatively recent past in terms of how long Humans have been around for:

*1.* The presence of ice caps in North America and Northern Europe, highly eccentric compared to the present north pole. 

*2.* The contemporaneous absence of ice caps from Siberia, which was actually populated to its northernmost regions by an impressive zoological community. 

*3.* The Arctic Sea was warmer than it is today, and there were human beings living in the New Siberia Islands. 

*4.* Antarctica was partially free of ice. 

*5.* The general climatic situation of the Earth was coherent with a different position of the poles.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

*In Alaska thick frozen deposits of soil, boulder, plant and animal exist, commonly known as muck. Prof. Frank C. Hibben of the University of New Mexico described these deposits:*

In many places, Alaskan muck is packed with animal bones and debris in trainload lots. Bones of mammoths, mastodons, several kind of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions tell a story of a faunal population within this frozen mass lie the twisted parts of animals and trees intermingled with lenses of ice and layers of peat and mosses. It looks as though in the midst of some cataclysmic catastrophe of ten thousand years ago the whole Alaskan world of living animals and plants was suddenly frozen in mid-motion like a grim charadetwisted and torn trees are piled in splintered masses  at least four considerable layers of volcanic ash may be traced in these deposits, although they are extremely warped and distorted


This suggests that although volcanoes were erupting, other forces were required to dismember these animals  with mighty floods and hurricanes being the most likely.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

There are pits in the heart of Los Angeles that are one of the richest sources of fossils discovered to date. More than 565 species all somehow got stuck in the tar (asphalt to be precise) over tens of thousands of years, fossilising all the time. Well, thats what the experts at the George C. Page Museum would have us believe, but they fail to explain the incredible density of animals that got stuck there. 

During the first University of California excavations in 1906, they found a bed of bones which contained over seven hundred sabre-toothed tiger skulls. These combined with wolf skulls averaged twenty per cubic yard. Almost more bones than tar. They are not the bones of animals that merely got stuck and waited to die. They are broken, mashed, contorted and mixed in a most heterogeneous mass, just like in the muck of Alaska. And we mustnt overlook the fossilised birds that have been dug up, 100,000 of them, including over 138 species, 19 of which are extinct. 

The George C. Page Museum suggests that the 3,000 birds that are predators and scavengers may have been attempting to feed on other trapped animals, when they themselves got stuck. As sensible as this idea sounds, it fails to explain the presence of the further 97,000 birds that were non-carnivorous. Or three species of fish!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

At the end of the last ice age (circa 10,000 BC) many North American species became extinct, including: mammoths, camels, Pre-Columbian horses, ground sloths, peccaries, antelopes, elephants, rhinoceroses, giant armadillos, tapirs, sabre-toothed tigers and giant bison. All of these animals are relatively large. Did they all become trapped in pits of asphalt? Was it the warmer weather that killed them? If so, could they not have shifted north? 

The evidence shows that they were most likely wiped out by a terrible catastrophe.

Fossil bones are astonishingly abundant in frozen ground of Alaska, but articulated bones are scarce, and complete skeletons, except for rodents that died in their burrows, are almost unknown  the dispersal of the bones is as striking as their abundance and indicates general destruction of soft parts prior to burial.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Meanwhile in Siberia, mammoths were being wiped out in a similar manner. Massive graveyards of their remains have been mined for ivory tusks. It has been estimated that more than half a million tons of mammoth tusks were buried along Siberias Arctic coastline, which equates to roughly five million mammoths. Several dozen frozen mammoth carcasses have been found with the flesh still intact. They died suddenly. In their stomachs can be found undigested vegetation, including grass, bluebells, wild beans and buttercups  food typically available in the summer. Scientists examining them have concluded that three of the mammoths died of asphyxiation. The cause of death of the others has not been determined. 

Regardless of cause, they froze within days of dying, and when unfrozen the flesh has been fresh enough to feed to dogs. With the previous pole positioned at Hudson Bay, the North Siberian coastline would have had the same latitude as Japan does today, well outside of the Arctic Circle. But when the poles shifted, the climate would have rapidly changed, from a summer savannah where mammoths munched on buttercups, to a frozen wasteland. 

But wait a minute; werent the woolly mammoths suited to living in a cold climate? They are described as woolly due to their hairy coat, but this is only hair, greaseless hair. To help protect them from the cold, all of todays Arctic mammals have glands that make their hair oily to retain warmth  the mammoths had no such gland. Although thicker, a mammoths hair is the same as that of elephants, and they live in the tropical regions. Many animals found in equatorial jungles also have thick hair, the tiger being one such example. Anyone still unconvinced could consider this - bones of tigers, rhinoceroses and antelope were found alongside the mammoths, and these are obviously not Arctic creatures.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

The great problem for geological theories to explain is that amazing phenomenon, the mingling of the remains of animals of different species and climates, discovered in exhaustless quantities in the interior parts of the earth so that the exuviae of those genera which no longer exist at all, are found confusedly mixed together in the soils of the most northerly latitudes . . . The bones of those animals which can live only in the torrid zone are buried in the frozen soil of the polar regions.

All around the globe there are caves which are full of bones. Many of these contain the remains of animals that would not have normally existed alongside each other. One such cave, at Oreston, near Plymouth, England contained mammoths, rhinoceroses, bears, lions and reindeer. Kents cave in nearby Torquay yielded, amongst another things, the bones of sabre-toothed tigers.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

A cave near Settle, in West Yorkshire, contains the remains of the hippo, rhino, mammoth, bison, hyena and other animals. They are buried under twelve feet of clay deposits and the cave is 1450 feet above sea level.

So, what could have caused hippo bones to be found deep inside English caves? They may indeed have lived in England, but hippos are not known to climb mountains by choice. They could have been hiding from the cataclysm, sharing the cave with terrified hyenas and bison. Or their bodies, dismembered by a violent cataclysm, may have washed up there, as part of a concurrent great flood. It is reasonable to say that these two ideas are more sound than hippos going on a summer holiday!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

In China, near the village of Choukoutien, among the animals found in caves were a porcupine, tiger, woolly rhinoceros, camel, elephant, baboon, ostrich and a species of tortoise. They are not of the same habitat - the bones have been somehow gathered up and dumped in the caves. What forces of nature could do such a thing?

In Sicilian caves were found hippopotami, hyenas, lions, Megatherium, rabbits, bears and elephants. On Kotelnoi Island, in the Arctic Circle above Siberia, where neither shrubs, nor trees, nor bushes exist, are found the bones of elephants, buffaloes, horses and rhinoceroses. Similar evidence is available worldwide  proof of destruction at levels we dare not imagine to be possible.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Spitsbergen (now known as Svalbard) is an island in the Arctic Ocean, just eleven degrees from the North Pole, to the north of Norway. It was uninhabited until the 1890s when a mining colony was established there. For almost six months of winter there is no sunlight, yet fossilised plants have been found there, including pines, firs, elms, swamp-cypress and water lilies. Regardless of climate change, these cannot grow anywhere without regular sunlight. At some time in the past, Spitsbergen must have been further away from the pole. Further evidence comes from Soviet archaeologists who have discovered prehistoric cave drawings of deer and whales, as well as axes fashioned from mammoth tusks. 

Reef corals have been found deep within the Arctic Circle, on the islands of Ellesmere (Canada) and Spitsbergen. Under snow now, they must have originally grown in a tropical region. Coral requires a minimum temperature of 64° Fahrenheit to grow, which means either a tropical location, or somewhere outside the tropics where warm currents bring tropical waters into higher latitudes (Japan, South Africa, and Bermuda for example).

At the opposite pole, Antarctica, Ernest Shackleton found coal beds within 200 miles of the South Pole. The Byrd expedition of 1935 uncovered fossils that were later identified as tree ferns, as well as the footprint of a mammallike reptile. At both ends of the globe, places which are currently the coldest on earth, we find evidence of warmth equivalent to that of latitudes at least 30 degrees closer to the equator.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Hudson Bay in NorthEast Canada is a large inland sea covering 730,380 sq km, yet has a rather shallow average depth of just 130 metres. It was the epicentre of the North American ice sheet during the last Ice Age, which extended as far south as Ohio. North West of Hudson Bay the subsoil is permanently frozen. Halfway between this region and the current North Pole is Greenland, the interior of which is covered in ice all year long. This is to be expected if it was within the previous polar circle as well as the current one  it never had a chance to melt.

Hudson Bay is roughly 30 degrees south of the North Pole, and the Gulf of Mexico a similar distance south again. These spots would fit a model of regular uni-directional shifts. If the shift had a more random nature then other previous polar locations could include a large depression in Africa called the Sudan Basin. It is littered with waterways, which have no apparent connection to each other, nor with the ocean. It contains Lake Chad, which originally covered 300,000 square kilometres, but is now less than one thirtieth of that size and is still shrinking. 

The first two locations just noted are diametrically opposite regions of the Southern Ocean, areas where similar depressions in land cannot occur. Opposite Lake Chad is the South West Pacific, again devoid of major land masses.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

True extinction (end of a phyletic lineage without phyletic replacement) has occurred throughout the history of life on earth. Among the terrestrial vertebrates, the fossil evidence suggests two striking episodes of extinction: one at the Mesozoic-tertiary transition saw the extinction of the last dinosaurs, the other at the Pleistocene-recent transition saw the sudden dramatic disappearance of large mammals in most but not all parts of the world"

We live in a zoologically impoverished world from which all the hugest, and fiercest, and strangest forms have recently disappeared  yet it is surely a marvellous fact, and one that has been sufficiently dwelt upon, this sudden dying out of so many large Mammalia, not in one place only but over half the land surface of the globe.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

In North America an estimated 40 million animals died at the end of the last ice age (12,000 years ago). Many of the mammals became extinct, especially the larger ones. The Americas were home to a range of very large mammals, such as the Megatherium (5.5 metre ground sloth), Glyptodon (4 metre giant armadillo), mammoths, sabre-toothed tigers and horses. 

Gradualists, who accept that climate change could not have been the sole cause, are puzzled as to how these extinctions happened. For example, we know that post-Columbian horses thrive today in the same areas where fossils of their extinct cousins are found. 

The problem is made more difficult when we look at southern Africa, which contains many similar climatic zones, yet lacks the recent extinction of large mammals - large mammals that are obviously less agile than other species, less suited to sudden disasters. 

The Smilodon (sabre-toothed tiger) for example, while being smaller in size than the African lion, was twice as heavy. Imagine if a concrete apartment building had a variety of animal species as tenants, and, as we often see on television, it was detonated. Which species could possibly survive? Giraffes? Sloths? Humans? Or smaller beings like a rat, ant or cockroach. Or in the case of a flood, which animals are unable to scale steep slopes and escape the rising waters? The poor Megatherium (which weighed 3-4 tons) would not have had a chance.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Grab a globe and find the southern coast of Nigeria. On the opposite side is Kiribati in the Pacific Ocean. If the North Poles previous position was at Hudson Bay, then these two places are roughly the fulcrum points of the last pole shift. Place a finger at each position and see how you can swivel the North Pole to where Hudson Bay is today. This line of most movement continues down through the United States and along the west coast of South America, across Antarctica, the Indian Ocean, SouthEast Asia, China and Siberia. All points along this line would have shifted 30 degrees in latitude. The two fulcrum points are the only two spots on the globe that didnt change latitude. The closer to the fulcrum, the less the change. Closer to the line of most movement equals more change. 

The extinctions of 10,000 years ago mostly occurred along the line of most movement, along with major geology upheavals, such as the rising of the Andes mountain range. During global cataclysms, at locations along the line of most movement, there is a correlation between the size of animals and their extinction.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

An event as catastrophic as a pole shift would undoubtedly create an increase in volcanic activity. In fact, most likely every volcano along the line of most movement would have exploded. Evidence of past lava flows indicate that our current level of volcanic activity is very low, a mere whimper. There has been a gradual decline of activity over the last 10,000 years, as the earths crust has settled into its new position, and the volcanoes have slowly died down.

A shift of the crust would require some stretching and contracting due to the equatorial bulge. Any section of the crust that moved into the area of the equator would have to stretch to accommodate the bulge. On the other side of the equator, where section of the crust were moving away, there would be contraction. Distortions of this magnitude would give us the fire element so often part of the flood legends  volcanoes.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Chile alone had more active volcanoes back then, than the 500 the entire globe has today. Volcanoes are so sensitive that we can assume the majority of them would erupt during a pole shift situation. Our atmosphere would be filled with dust and the sun would effectively disappear from view for a few years. An example of this is the eruption of Krakatoa in 1883 &#8211; this single volcano lowered the mean earth temperature by about 1&#247;C for several years, and many parts of the world lost an entire growing season. With hundreds of volcanoes erupting at once our planet would be plunged into winter, with the new poles freezing over rapidly. 
The amount of dust in the air, and corresponding lack of sunlight caused by a pole shift is unpredictable, but even a layman can guess that it would be many, many times more severe than the explosion of Krakatoa. A number of doomsday researchers have pointed out how the dust would create a tragic, incredibly cold period. However, the severity may well be offset in part by the carbon dioxide that volcanoes produce. While dust will stop the sun&#8217;s rays from entering our atmosphere, carbon&#8211;dioxide will stop heat from escaping, the much discussed &#8220;greenhouse effect&#8221;. Carbon dioxide also stimulates plant growth, but only when there is sunlight as well. The climate following a pole shift is very difficult to predict. Prepare for anything.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

New Zealand is a relatively new country  supposedly it slowly rose from the ocean 26 million years ago. But how are there still shells there, which easily break beneath a person's shoes, which could easily turn into sand, still in one piece after 26 millions of years? Have they survived earthquakes and weather for such a terribly long time? Or could the islands of New Zealand have risen only 12,000 years ago? 


*Graham Hancock found a similar situation at Lake Titicaca, on the border of Peru and Bolivia:*

Though now more than two miles above sea level, the area around Lake Titicaca is littered with millions upon millions of fossilized sea shells. This suggests that at some stage the whole of the Altiplano was forced upwards from the sea-bed, perhaps as part of the general terrestrial rising that formed South America as a whole 


This would be in line with orthodox scientists, who believe that this occurred very slowly 100 million years ago. But Hancock points out that many of the fish and crustacea in the lake are of a salt-water variety, as if they hadnt had time to evolve into fresh water types. Indeed this is the only fresh water location on earth where seahorses live.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

The ancient city of Tiahuanaco, is currently 12 miles distant, and 100 feet higher than the lake. Yet, this city has ruined docks, which implies that within the civilised history this area was subject to a major upheaval. It is frightening to think that there are forces that can shift landscapes two miles vertically, and this may have happened 12,000 years ago in South America.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

One of the most important discoveries that argues for pole shifts in the past was a Renaissance map found in the Library of Congress in 1959 by Charles Hapgood, that shows the continent of Antarctica in an ice-free state. This was, in addition to the famous Piri Re-is map, a map drawn by Oronteus Finaeus in 1531 from much more ancient maps. 

After several years of research, Hapgood was able to identify more than fifty accurately represented features of Antarctica on the map. Since Antarctica wasn't really charted until about 1920, Finaeus had no way of knowing anything about it. But obviously those ancient mariners knew it in precise cartographic terms. Hapgood estimated the source to be about 17,000 years old, and therefore speculated that the pole shift which buried the continent in ice must have occurred around 14,000 years ago. 

In 1961, the Cartographic Section of the U.S.A.F. Strategic Air Command, after studying the Finaeus map, entirely confirmed Hapgood's analysis. They said that the map was indeed made when Antarctica was free of ice, and that furthermore, the ancient mapmakers must have understood advanced mathematics, especially spherical trigonometry!.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Hapgood's theory of crustal displacement also explains one of the great mysteries of geology. How did it happen that temperate and equatorial parts of the planet came to be covered with ice during the so-called various ice-ages? It is known, for example, that a glacier originated in southern India about 280 million years ago, and pushed northwards 1100 miles. 

How can this be, since India has always been where it is now? Hapgood says in The Path of the Pole, ...ice ages existed in the tropics and...great ice caps covered vast areas on and near the equator. This happened not once, but several times. Shifting poles due to slippage of the earth's crust could account for this phenomenon very neatly.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Then we have the problem of the Woolly Mammoths again. What caused them all to die so suddenly? It is one thing for a species to die out slowly over thousands of years and become extinct. It is quite another to find their bones, and in many cases, perfectly preserved bodies, in heaps in various parts of the world, mostly in northern Siberia. Most certainly, they did not die of old age. The famed Beresovka Mammoth uncovered in Siberia in 1900, had unchewed grass and buttercups in his mouth, and undigested vegetation in his stomach, indicating clearly that he had died in the summer. How then, did he become frozen, and remain perfectly preserved? 

A sudden pole shift plunging the Siberian plains into numbing cold and transforming them into frozen tundra would be one very acceptable explanation. Even if the Mammoths did not all die immediately, they would perish over a short period thereafter, because their food supply would be cut off. This is the hypothesis championed by the well-known naturalist Ivan T. Sanderson, who made numerous television appearances in the '60s. 

The Mammoths apparently died mostly of asphyxiation before they froze. The extended period over which the Mammoths died, is estimated to be between 30,000 and 10,000 B.C.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 2, 2007)

Global cataclysms have occurred previously, and presumably will happen again. Any prediction of when must be based on calculable processes. If the Mayan calendar proves to be prophetic, then this cosmic disturbance must be a regular and predictable occurrence, not a random collision or interaction. And if humanity manages to survive each cataclysm, the disturbances effect must fall a little short of total annihilation.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

It is a fact that anywhere from 2009-2012 the Earth will be subjected to a huge disaster. The cause: the magnetic field of the Earth will reverse all at once, resulting in an enormous shift of the Earth's crust. Virtually nobody will survive this, and at the same time much of our (but not all of our) acquired knowledge will disappear.

These scientific predictions originate from both the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans. Both civilizations are descendants of the legendary Atlanteans, and they had very highly-evolved astronomical knowledge. In Ancient antiquity, they were able to accurately predict the disaster that heralded the end of their civilization.

It's all part of the Ancient codes of the Egyptians and the Mayans. They contain the secrets of a very distant past.

Around 2009-2012, just as in around 9792 BC, the time of the last Pole-Shift, Venus will make a planetary loop above the star system of Orion. In the Egyptian Book of the Dead this is described as the crucial signal for the reversal of the Poles, because after this, the Earth will start turning in the opposite direction.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

The astronomical description of the Pole-Shift left by the Ancient Egyptians is amazingly clever. They describe that at a certain moment, when the Sun's magnetism reaches a crucial point, a colossal catastrophe will wreak havoc on the Earth. And this will happen within the next 3-5 years or so of our lifetimes!

In other words, EXTREMELY SOON folks.

The Egyptian astronomical zodiac describes the eras in which previous catastrophes occurred, and it also contains the codes of the Sunspot cycle and the movement of Orion. The next disaster, the one that is going to occur anywhere from 2009 to December 21,2012, will take place when Venus makes a reverse movement above this constellation (Orion).

This is relating to the "Apocalypse" that the Bible describes. There is an aberration in the Sunspot cycle, which lays the foundation for the forthcoming World Cataclysm. 

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans had incredibly precise calculations for the orbit of the Earth around the Sun.


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## Annie (Mar 3, 2007)

Having thoughts of Nostradamus, not sure why.


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## CSM (Mar 3, 2007)

Kathianne said:


> Having thoughts of Nostradamus, not sure why.



Give the guy an award for the longest post by a single poster.


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## Annie (Mar 3, 2007)

CSM said:


> Give the guy an award for the longest post by a single poster.



No joke. These are the times that I really miss Darin!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

Now I would like to describe the history of an even more ancient civilization which was called Atlantis that at one time existed but was destroyed by a major cataclysm such as the one our Earth is about to face very soon.

The following information about Atlantis has been translated from old manuscripts by the Egyptologist Albert Slosman, and also from his unique deciphering of hieroglyphs inscribed on temples.


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## Annie (Mar 3, 2007)

8 ball, where are you????


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

You are now going back to the year 21,312 BC, the year of a shocking occurrence. In those days, Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis) had a moderate climate. Vast forests covered the north of the country. It snowed occasionally, and ice was an almost unknown phenomenon. In the south, excessive vegetation predominated the whole year. Many now-extinct species of animals used to live here, like gorillas without flat noses, enormous but peaceful mammoths, rhinos four meters high with four toes, and sabre-toothed tigers.

On the southern end of this immense continent, you could mainly see mountains and plains, which contained valuable treasures: fertile lands producing their goods almost without any help. The horizon was dominated by mountain chains. You could also see a few pyramid-shaped cones of extinct volcanoes. They had been inactive for such a long time that nobody could remember their last eruptions. 

The inhabitants of Atlantis could see many green trees, some of which had lovely fruit that they could eat during all seasons. In short, it was almost like the story of the "Garden of Eden" that can be taken from the Bible. But instead, this legend of Atlantis can be taken from Egyptian history.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

The inhabitants of Atlantis had knowledge of the Earth's movement around the Sun and the shifting of the Zodiac. That is why they were able to pass on to us what happened in those days. In less than one hour a catastrophe took place. It did not involve a total Pole-Shift like the one that happened around 9792 BC, but it involved a partial one.

Not only the continent, but also the whole Earth was subjected to huge Earthquakes. Then the Earth's axis began to glide. Buildings collapsed, mountain chains shook and crumbled while it seemed that the World had started to slip away. 

Before this event, the Sun had risen in the 15th degree of Sagittarius. After the elements had spent themsleves away, the axis of the Earth had moved to the end of Aquarius! The movement of the planet filled the seas with an enormous quantity of kinetic energy. Uncontrollable water floods washed over large parts of land. Atlantis sank below water level, and because of the Shift of the Earth, it came to lie partially under what was, at that time, the North Pole, and was covered with a thick layer of ice.

From that day, the true history of Atlantis began. And why is this legend so important? Because just as in around 21,312 BC when disaster struck the Earth as it entered into the last Age of Aquarius, we too, in our current era, are about to enter into yet another Age of Aquarius!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

The few survivors of Atlantis regrouped in the South of the Continent, since the north had become uninhabitable. (Even though the Great North had vanished, Atlantis was still many times bigger than present day Europe). 

Deeply shocked, the survivors decided to study the sky even more intently than before. They registered in detail a specific interval of time. All movements and combinations of the Sun, the Moon and the Planets were most thoroughly noted down and graphically reproduced on scrolls. Those days, there was no television, radio, cinema, or other diversions. Therefore, people had loads of time to gaze at the stars while sitting by the ashes of a hot glowing campfire.

A long time ago, their ancestors had discovered figures in the sky. Some resembled animals like a bear, a bull, a horse, a lion, ect. They would argue over these for hours, until they finally agreed on an appropriate name for each.

Now, specific attention was being paid to the movements of the Zodiac. The slightest detail was intensively studied and described. This is because the Atlanteans figured out that the Zodiac was a clue to what had led to the catastrophe of their Continent.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

During those days, the Atlanteans saw that the stars and the sun always rose in the west (nowadays this is in the east), so that the stars needed one whole night to cross the sky. In addition, they noticed that different star signs were seen in different seasons. It never happened that suddenly a new star sign would show up in the West. Everything evidenced an order and predictable regularity. It comforted them in the loss of all that had died in the catastrophe.

As time went on, they discovered other stellar phenomena. Some stars rose or sank just before sunrise and the times and places varied with the seasons. It was actually a rediscovery that their ancestors had already found out. However, with their dedication and skill, they were eventually able to explore in depth alot of celestial codes.

Furthermore, they researched the constellation of Orion and the star Sirius with the utmost curiosity. At that time, Orion ruled over the northern and southern starry skies of the Earth, and it was the clearest visible constellation. Sirius was in line with Orion and the Zodiac, and it is a big, brilliant star. This is why they paid so much attention to it.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

After the catastrophe around 21,312 BC, life on this huge continent recuperated. People discovered metals like iron, copper and lead and found out how to exploit them. They made beautiful silver and gold ornaments and they ascribed healing values to precious stones, originating from the essence of each of the twelve signs of the Zodiac. 

As they progressed in obtaining more knowledge and in the rational use of raw materials, they decided to build religious buildings. This led to a super-construction with a diameter of eight kilometres, which took them hundreds of years to complete: "The Circle of Gold". In this indescribably gigantic building the "Mathematical Celestial Combinations" were studied by the "Experts of the Number", and all astronomical and other observations were registered. 

The Ancient Atlanteans studied the Sun, the Planets, and the Stars. They discovered the laws of movement, gravity, cartography and of countless other sciences. More than 15,000 years ago, they developed mathematics almost up to our present level.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 3, 2007)

Finally, the Atlanteans knowledge led them to the unveiling of one of the biggest secrets of science: the Sunspot cycle theory. Through accurate deduction, they were able to predict the cycles. 

The critical issue was the magnetic fields of the Sun. When these fields reach a crucial point, they result in enormous Sun-outbursts or Solar Flares that are capable of reversing the magnetic field of the Earth. And with the aid of this knowledge, they calculated the exact date of a forthcoming "Great Cataclysm", which would completely destroy their country (and which will soon destroy much of ours).

Despite the fact that this was soley announced at the royal palace, the news spread like wildfire. Panic broke out, until the high priest of Atlantis announced that the date lay two thousand years in their future at that time.

In the year 10,000 BC, a high priest gave the signal for an enormous exodus, because the catastrophe was now upon them.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 4, 2007)

In the disaster of 21,312 BC, Aha-Men-Ptah had shifted 72 degrees in the Zodiac! If your image of the World changes this drastically, this number has to play a decisive role in your life and that of your descendants as well! That is why almost all ancient civilizations have put it in their legends. And not only their legends, but also in their architecture, science, mathematics, and so on.

25,920 was a Holy Number for the Ancient Atlanteans. The number 25,920 stands for the duration of the complete Zodiacal cycle.

At least three major catastrophes took place in the history of this legendary empire. By the third, the country was completely swept away from the map. 

Before the catastrophe, the high priests had calculated that the empire would be destroyed completely. Aha-Men-Ptah, the true and original name for the empire, would become just a land of shadows.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 4, 2007)

After meticulous calculations, the Atlantean high priests had picked the number out of an incredible array of possible combinations. They built their whole history around this number. It is not impossible that they should have recalculated former periods of time that had passed in their Zodiac, in order to conform to the predictions of this magical number.

If you read the book _L'Astronomie selon les Egyptiens_, you will find that the names of the signs of the Zodiac were changed many times. And it could be the same with the periods of time. 

When you study in depth the years that had passed in a certain Zodiacal sign, you are drawn to the same conclusion. It is impossible to work with such specially coded numbers from the beginning of civilization. They were deliberately put there once the Atlantean priests had made their calculations about the approaching "end of their World". After all, everything had to meet the expectations of their Holy Celestial Laws.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 4, 2007)

In the Atlantean's eyes this was not a falsification of history, but simply an adjustment of the laws of reality. The "Divine Reality" as they experienced it. Of course this deciphering is not a coincidence; it is the result of a well-pondered and finely tuned decision. Should there ever come a civilization after them, it would have had to be able to trace back along their important discoveries.

The precession of the equinoxes, or furthermore, the shifting of the Zodiac, is at the center of these discoveries. The corresponding number, 25,920, shows up Worldwide again and again. When we find this number while deciphering their codes, and it can also be found in the antique masterworks of remote times, one proof is reinforced by the other. 

For instance: the number automatically shows up in elementary calculations that later form a logical unit in the pyramids. The shifting of the Zodiac can be reproduced with mathematical calculations. The survivors of the catastrophe designed a plan with scientific details to show the precise date of the catastrophe.

As soon as we reach the same precession, The Pole-Shift is going to happen in our current day, and it will be almost identical to the catastrophe that caused the downfall of Atlantis!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 4, 2007)

The calculations made by the Ancient Atlanteans in their "Circle of Gold" resulted in the "Celestial Laws" that they followed in the same way that many religious followers study the books of their religion. These Laws remained with the survivors of the catastrophe. It was their decision, and again that of their progency after them, as to whether they would continue to use such a gift and to what end it should be used for, for good or bad.

The Priests of Aha-Men-Ptah in antiquity had fathomed many truths that they kept secret. They knew about the existence of cycles in the Universe, as well as those that occurred on Earth. After a cycle ended, another cycle began, which again gave Life, but in another projection of space.

This means that the Earth is never the same, on the contrary, it is totally different from all previous periods. This also applies to all beings on Earth, because our planet evolves with everything living on it, according to the rhythm of the Sun and the movement of the twelve constellations of the Zodiac. These new combinations are formed day after day, second after second, and are influencing the future.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 4, 2007)

Once you are aware of this little secret, there is much to discover about these peoples and the reasons behind their methodology. "Atlantean thinking", that is what it all boils down to. By projecting your thoughts into their world, you can easily solve the riddles they pose.

What is important here is that this old culture used exact astronomical numbers in their mystical calculations. Many of their ideas reflected their knowledge of the facts that events  occuring in the "Kingdom of Heaven" held great influence over them. The temples, magic objects, relics and religious scriptures later created in both Egypt and Mexico generated an echo of their far-distant past.

For the Ancient Atlanteans, and their future civilizations, Heaven was the Kingdom of Hereafter. The temples and pyramids on Earth were formed in a mirror image of the skies, representing the metaphysical structure of the supernatural.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 5, 2007)

Orion was the astronomical code position during the year of the previous reversal of the Earth: Venus made a plentary retrograde loop above Orion. After that, heavy earthquakes and volcanic eruptions tormented Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis).

This retrograde loop of Venus above Orion illustrates the reversal of the magnetic field of the Earth. 

*In Politicus, Plato wrote:*

"In those times, an enormous extinction of animals will widely take place and only a small part of humankind will survive."

In the Egyptian Book of the Dead it is mentioned that the code position of Venus above Orion during the previous cataclysm  conveys a warning. When Venus comes to a similar position, the coming Pole-Shift will be close. 

Sometime between 2009-December 21, 2012, Venus will make the same movement, except that it will be almost a mirror image of the movements of the planet made in the year that Atlantis met its end. 

*What Euripides wrote in Electra will happen to us:* 

"The sun went backwards with the whip of its wrath, full of anger, rewarding the mortals with disasters."

*In Timaeus, Plato describes this even more poetically:*

"The Earth will be captured by stormy winds. The waters of an immeasurable flood will overflow everything, while the Earth makes all kinds of movements, wandering in all directions."


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 5, 2007)

We understand only too well that this kind of catastrophe is colossal. But what will be the actual consequences? How is it possible to describe scientifically the movement of the Sun after every Pole-Shift? Not only did the Sun rise in another direction, but also the Earth reached another Age! The latter can be said because the Earth's crust, its topmost layer, will shift over the surface of the planet while its inner core will begin turning in the opposite direction. 

However complicated, it is still a logical conclusion. But how do you communicate this to your descendants? By what means can you explain this properly without causing confusion? And here we come across a masterpiece of this ancient cult of wisdom: the course of the Zodiac. It contains the only possible astronomical codes that describe or indicate accurately the several different changes that will be experienced.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 5, 2007)

In the first place, the Zodiac describes an exact period of time. The calendar of the Zodiac counts the years that the North Pole needs in order to complete a whole circle-25,920 in total. During this time, true North will move step by step through the different ages. This is universally valid and can be shared, in spite of a long time span. 

You can, for instance, state that in the year of that age the Earth was hit by a catastrophe. You can lend it prophetic implication. This will be the case for our purpose. Not just because of its esoteric backround, but indeed because of the scientific backround for which it was designed.

In the second place, the Zodiac is the indication of a change in the movement of the Sun. Because the Sun rose on the other side of the globe after the first disaster, it meant that the Earth would now pass through the ages in reverse sequence.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 5, 2007)

This is completely understandable. Also, it sheds new light on the use of the Zodiac. Before the first cataclysm, the Zodiac went from the star sign Libra to Leo (Libra-->Virgo-->Leo). In Leo, the Earth's surface changed drastically: landmasses sank below the sea, new islands arose, volcanoes erupted, and so on. Everything had quieted down, it seemed that a large turnabout in the precession had taken place: it now went the other way around! In other words, a certain mechanism in the interior of the Earth had turned upside down. That made the movement go as follows: Leo-->Virgo-->Libra.

Before the Cataclysm of 9792 BC the Zodiac travelled from Aquarius to Leo. It then stopped abruptly. The magnetic field of the Earth again changed, the inner core began to rotate in the opposite direction and the Zodiac again appeared to have shifted direction. That's the movement we're still following now until the next Pole-Shift.

The indications are overwhelming and at the same time imply a warning for us: it has happened many times before and it will take place again very soon and perhaps in the future after that innumerable times as well.


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## JeffWartman (Mar 5, 2007)

Why is this guy still allowed to post?


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 5, 2007)

In the third place, the Zodiac contains an exact indication of the change of the precession. The movement of the Zodiac was thoroughly disturbed after each previous disaster. At the time of 21,312 BC, the Earth landed in another Age through a sudden shift of 72 degrees. The calendar started again from that point!

The catastrophe of 9792 BC was the most profound in recorded history; thereafter the course of the Zodiac reversed. This is proof of a Pole reversal. And yet, curiously enough, after much wandering, the Earth came to a stop, in the same Age, but a bit further on.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 5, 2007)

JeffWartman said:


> Why is this guy still allowed to post?



Because thats the name of the game there Buster.

If you start your own thread, you have the right to post in it.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 5, 2007)

Before the cataclysm of 21,312 BC, Atlantis had been in Sagittarius for 720 years. In one blow, the Earth was then catapulted forward to the Age of Aquarius. The movement of the Earth didn't reverse this time. Since there was only a sudden shift of Ages, we know that the Earth's core kept turning in the same direction. If it had reversed, the Ages would have gone in the opposite direction, as after the first cataclysm.

The knowledge of these ancient Scientists was so great that in many cases it shames our present knowledge! This is a crucial element, because with their knowledge we can decipher what they could exactly calculate about the forthcoming catastrophe which is headed our way.

Our ancestors warned us about this event through coded messages. They knew which mechanisms were hiding behind the biggest atmospheric and Earth changes. With unmatched accuracy they had followed and depicted the Zodiac, and calculated the date of the previous catastrophe, in order to secure their knowledge regarding this. Their descendants - the survivors of the super-catastrophe - are warning us through their legends and exact mathematical and astronomical formulas, informing us that it is now our turn. 

The Earth will soon swing around the other way, and many different disasters will take place that will destroy almost all life.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 6, 2007)

All these events and the messages from these ancient scientists give us testimonies and eyewitness reports of repeated Polar innihilations. But because many of our present scientists choose to be self-satisfied and arrogant, these ultra important historical facts are being ignored. 

If so many people choose to remain blind and deaf, our civilization may find its end.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 6, 2007)

Once again, there are more connections that can be made between the shifting of the Zodiac and the Solar magnetism. This is proof of the predicted and actual events that destroyed Atlantis. At the same time, it is more evidence of what is going to happen to us as we approach 2012.

The Atlanteans knew that a gigantic short-circuit in the Sun causes enormous eruptions. The electromagnetic shock wave is so powerful that the Earth's magnetic field will be blown away. 

After this takes place, the Earth will begin to rotate in the opposite direction, reversing the order of how we see the constellations in the Zodiac! And to describe this, the Atlanteans searched for a mathematical relation between these two phenomena.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 6, 2007)

So we know from the Ancient Atlanteans that there is a direct connection between Solar magnetism and the shifting of the Zodiac. Such science is extremely progressive. It actually exceeds the science we know today.

Behind all this there is a helping hand that intends to warn us. Incredibly smart scientists were responsible for this. And the reason is that this connection is not random.

There is a direct connection between dramatic time periods on Earth. The precession cycle is closely connected with the beginning and the end of the ice ages. This has been known since the 1970s.

The previously mentioned discoveries are the evidence that the Ancient Atlanteans had a higher level of knowledge about this more than 12,000 years ago! They also discovered, just as scientists are today, that there were several causes for the ice ages. They were confronted with this on February 2nd, 21,312 BC. 

On February 2nd, 21,312 BC, the Earth turned 72 degrees and the subtropical Aha-Men-Ptah was, in a few hours, shifted to partially cover what was - at that time - the North Pole. This tragedy was followed by many disasters including a giant tidle wave. The survivors regrouped in what remained habitable of the Continent and decided to create an astronomical center: the Circle of Gold. 

For thousands of years their best scientists studied the heavens. In 10,000 BC the Atlanteans were so certain of a correlation between the magnetic field of the Sun and the resulting catastrophic occurrences on Earth that they decided to start planning for an exodus, preparations for which took place over 208 years.


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## MtnBiker (Mar 6, 2007)

JeffWartman said:


> Why is this guy still allowed to post?



No one pays attention to the posts, so it does not matter. Just sucks up band width.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 6, 2007)

The Atlanteans discovered several relations between Solar magnetism and the shifting of the Zodiac. They are all extremely disturbing. Many modern scientists know that the same phenomena will put the Earth in terrible danger. 

To ignore these messages means suicide. Almost everyone will die during these events if precautions are not taken with utmost urgency! And to top it all off, the survivors will be without much of present day technology. There won't be any computers or machines to rely on to pick up the pieces and put Life, as we've known it, back together. At least not right away.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 6, 2007)

MtnBiker said:


> No one pays attention to the posts, so it does not matter. Just sucks up band width.



As special as you might believe yourself to be, you certainly don't speak for Everyone else. And definately not myself.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 6, 2007)

So it can now be proven from ancient hieroglyphs that there was once a prosperous country of which much of is now lying underneath the South Pole, due to a major shift in the Earth's crust. Scientists with unparalleled knowledge of astronomy, geometry, mathematics, ect., were part of it.

After thousands and thousands of years of research, they discovered a relation between the magnetic field of the Earth and that of the Sun. Two hundred and eight years before the fatal date, they urged  their fellow countrymen to prepare for an exodus. The rulers at that time started a punctilious program that had to secure their escape. Hundreds of thousands of Mandjits were built. 

Despite the belief of many people, the fatal disaster took place on the exact day that had been calculated so many years before. In the ensuing chaos, the greatest part of the population died. And yet, thousands escaped and started their wisdom cult again in different regions of the World. Thanks to them we know today what is awaiting us.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 7, 2007)

That night the survivors saw the last spasms of Aha-Men-Ptah. After gigantic earthquakes, the capital city had disappeared under the rising water; an unreal purple glow surrounded the sinking continent. From their boats, the survivors saw exploding volcanoes shooting lava into the sky, while the immense continent sank. It had been their mother country for an eternity, and now it had almost disappeared. But their suffering had not ended yet.

Macabre gigantic light beams were dancing around the Mandjits while the crews took pains to keep up with the hurricane forces. Nobody knew whether they would survive. The night seemed to last an eternity, while the moon and the stars were making abrupt movements. Again, volcanoes burst out, shooting their deadly wreckage far past the Mandjits. A strong smell of sulphur filled the air, while at the same time an apocalyptic high, shining pillar of light rose in the sky.

In fact, the night went ont; this was no illusion, but a mathematical reality, because the Earth's crust was moving thousands of kilometers. Not only the survivors but everything on Earth was thrown into commotion.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 7, 2007)

Burgeoning civilizations that did not have a clue about what was happening were wiped out. Dozens of animal species  encountered their inescapable end, while the appearance of the Earth changed drastically. Mountains rose from nothing while other parts of the Earth descended rapidly. Water was everywhere rising to catastrophic heights, while hurricanes were lashing the Earth's surface. 

During these events, the survivors had to keep on their feet - a terrible task to fulfil in a World that was slipping away. Occasionally the sky seemed to clear up, but it only appeared to be so. Finally, at last, a miracle seemed to occur and a new day did begin. Screams of joy escaped the lungs of the afflicted people. However, a big surprise was visible in the sky.

Was it true what they were seeing or was this a fata morgana? Perhaps a celestial phenomenon even more difficult to understand than the previous one created this illusion. Or was it real? Who could tell? The omnipresent evil-smelling fog was still lingering, which made it difficult to recognize the diffuse rays. Then they got stronger.

The Sun was now rising in the East! Surprised cries rose from within the fragile boats. They simply could not believe it. The Sun was rising from the point where it had set! Full of surprise they pointed at the reversed movement of the Sun.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 7, 2007)

For many of the survivors this was an incomprehensible riddle. However, some priests were able to understand why the night had been so dramatically long. The Earth used to move from East to West, and because of the catastrophe this motion had reversed; for this reason, the fate-ful night had lasted several hours longer than usual. The Earth's crust had shifted, adding even more hours to that night.

A huge tidal wave, caused by gigantic seaquakes, came rolling towards them. This captured the survivors' attention completely; they forgot about the "miracle" and concentrated on surviving. Staying alive, that was the mission!

Moaning, the Mandjits rose. "Shall we overcome this"? wondered the exhausted passengers. They could hardly stand much more.

Under normal conditions, the boats could withstand the roughest waters of the oceans. But this was an accumulation of all possible natural disasters. Nobody had ever experienced anything like this before.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 7, 2007)

Knots had been torn away, sails had disappeared, rudders had been slashed and boat sides were leaking. In short, most ships were not seaworthy anymore.

At that moment, they did not realize that a new Harmonic Celestial Law was ruling. They had been given the possibility of building up a new existence. To illustrate this, time started to run in a new Solar year, but everything celestial now moved in the reverse direction from the previous Solar year. 

Several hours later on that unforgettable day, it became clear that Harmony went cyclic again. The elements had calmed down.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 7, 2007)

In the following days, deathly pale and distraught people were washed ashore in the south of Morocco over a length of hundreds of kilometers, brought there by the tidal wave. This had only been possible because of the frail, but magnificent construction of the Mandjits that were well known for their durability.

A large number of corpses were washed ashore on the new coastline, increasing the risk of epidemics.And believe it or not, their suffering had still not ended yet. For many nights to come their dreams would contain the images of torn-up bodies with contorted faces and wide-open, staring eyes frozen in horror.

Only a few of their unfortunate fellow beings could be buried. Most of them were sent back into the sea, where the breakers drew them into deeper water to become food for scavengers such as crabs and fish.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 7, 2007)

Besides the immensity of the sea, some mountaintops and volcanoes that escaped the flood were still visible. Volunteers started to search for survivors and found some original inhabitants, who were called the survivors of the "Fortunate Islands", which were so called until the sixteenth century, when they became known as the "Canary Islands".

On the place where the survivors regrouped, a city was founded and named after Nut, the "Lady of Heaven", mother of Osiris, and the last queen of Aha-Men-Ptah. Nowadays this place is still called Cape Nut. 

The chronicles tell about 144,000 people that survived the catastrophe. Strangely enough, this number coincides with the preaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They believe that after the "End of Times" only 144,000 chosen ones will be admitted into Paradise. Undoubtedly this is based on the Egyptian history. 

Should the Jehovah's Witnesses want to survive the next catastrophe, it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to start making plans to try and do so.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 7, 2007)

The first days after the catastrophe, the survivors lived aimlessly. Great sadness about the immensity of the event had taken away their vital impulse. Some of them were desperately torn apart with grief over the loss of their relatives. Others meditated over their situation, and still others were so deeply shocked that they were in a trance-like state, just staring off into nothingness.

Nothing would ever be as it had been, of that they were convinced. For now, they had made it safely to a new land, but nothing more. They would never see their country again.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 12, 2007)

At the dawn of The Chosen, a "First Born" with special gifts was brought forth: his name was Aha. He taught the Divine Law of Creation, and for this reason thousands of years later all kings of the Egyptian dynasties were named after Per-Aha (descendants of The First Born), a term which Greeks phonetically changed into Pharaoh. These First Born descendants knew that they were made in the image of their Creator. Therefore, it was of vital importance for them to abide by The Celestial Laws. An Alliance would consecrate Harmony.

Nevertheless, as time went by, part of the knowledge vanished. Man thought he was God, which led to the big catastrophe of 9792 BC. During that catastrophe, an immense tidal wave washed away tens of millions of the Chosen of the Creator. From then on, this withered land of A-Men-Ta was named The Empire of the Dead in the Hereafter by the survivors of Atlantis. 

Deeply shocked, the survivors decided to enter into a new Alliance with their Creator. They thanked Him for their survival and asked forgiveness for their faults. In order to have Eternal Peace on Earth, this time they believed that their treaty would be indestructible.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 12, 2007)

The survivors of Atlantis wrote down everything carefully to create unbreakable chains forever and ever. It is for this reason that their exodus to Egypt can be traced.

From the coast of Morocco where the Atlanteans landed with their Mandjits, they followed an exact delineated route to Egypt, on a journey that lasted thousands of years, always remaining at the same degree of latitude. 

However, as years went by, cracks appeared in the Alliance and people forgot their commitments. This exhausting and tragic period was wilder than the wildest imagination: for more than five thousand years, wars between the survivors took place. These mind-boggling wars did not end until they eventually reached the "Promise Land". 

The Ancient Egyptian Chronicles tell jubilantly about the arrival of the survivors of Atlantis in Ath-ka-Ptah (Egypt), or as they called it, "The Second Heart of God". A new era was about to start.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 12, 2007)

The influence of the terrible catastrophe can be seen in all the buildings constructed in Egypt after this event. Two lions are depicted in the sarcophagus of Ramses II, looking in opposite directions. They indicate that after the catastrophe, and therefore after the Pole-Shift, the era of the Lion passed reversed. In between the lions, a Sun is resting on a reversed sky with the Cross of Life connected to it. Symbolically this stands for a radical revival of Life on Earth. This also shows the horrible possibility of a prospective new catastrophe - if the Celestial Laws are not respected.

This deep-seated reasoning is the driving force behind the creation of the enormous monuments in honor of Ptah. They formed the heart of the new Alliance with the Creator in the "Second Heart of God". In addition, the temple of Karnak and the pyramids of Gizeh are highlights in their worship of Ptah. On all the temples you will find hymns and texts depicted in honor of the Creator. The deep faith of this civilization originates from their resurrection within a new mother country. 

The Ancient Egyptians were completely convinced that their inherited beliefs (from Atlantis) were a reality, and so they based all of their doings on them.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 12, 2007)

Nowadays it is possible to reconstruct the exact route that the survivors of Atlantis followed in order to get to Egypt.

It started in Ta Mana, which lies approximately 100 kilometers from Agadir. In Ta Quz, close to the border between Morocco and Algeria, there are tombs which have lain there since the earliest times. Buried next to Osiris lays Nut, Nefthys and Isis, and several high priests and advisers of Horus. 

Even today, modern day visitors often claim that they feel they are entering a different World while they are touring these remnants from the mists of history.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 12, 2007)

The Sun was on the point of leaving the era of the Lion. With this auspicious sign they left for Egypt (Ath-Ka-Ptah), their "Second Heart of God". On that same morning, Sirius had risen just before Sunrise. On this twenty-second of July in the year 8352 BC, a new era started with the survivors of Atlantis and their long march to the Light.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 13, 2007)

According to the decoding of Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs done by the Egyptologist Albert Slosman, the Egyptian archives talk about a civilization with the same backround and culture as the Ancient Egyptians, as well as the same laws, the same art, and the same diplomacy.

And their secret knowledge of this civilization, hidden in their sacred texts, should not be forgotten. Priests in Ancient Egypt that were in training were schooled extensively on this subject. For a period of four years, they had to struggle to get through 42 text-books. The first two of these textbooks contain hymns worshipping Ptah and Ra. The following two contain the chronicles of the Pharaohs, which go back more than 30,000 years! 

These are exact, because they coincide with the astral mathematical combinations of the Zodiac. Then they had the "Books of the Four Times" about astronomy, the first scriptures of which go back to their native country: Aha-Men-Ptah, a name that was later phonetically changed into Atlantis.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 13, 2007)

The first of these writings discuss the astronomical past, the second the period at that time and the future; the fourth is completely dedicated to Ptah. Ten scriptures describe in detail the traditional religion with its celebrations and ceremonies. Four discuss medical knowledge, the structure of the skeleton, medical instruments and healing through plants. Ten books contain laws, an unprecedented treasure full of secrets. Other books discuss their escape from the previous catastrophe and their flight to Ath-Ka-Ptah (Egypt).


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 13, 2007)

Without the important calculations of the Ancient Atlanteans, just about nobody could have survived the last major Cataclysm that destroyed their entire Continent. There were at least thirty-six elements that enabled them to calculate the previous catastrophe in advance.

The last cayaclysm was many times bigger than the one of 21,312 BC! Besides, their country had completely disappeared and much of it still lies underneath the South Pole.

Without proper knowledge of this mixture of historical and spiritual events, you cannot make a reliable reconstruction of the history of Egypt.

The Great Sphinx, for instance, is in the form of a Lion because the previous catastrophe took place in the Age of the Lion (The Age of Leo). In the Zodiac of Dendera there are broken lines underneath the Lion, which symbolize a huge tidal wave that accompanied the catastrophe.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 13, 2007)

The highly evolved science of these ancient geniuses is astonishing. On many issues their science reached a much higher level than our current one. They were able to calculate beforehand exact orbits beyond four million days long, something we have not yet mastered completely.

From numerous facts they distilled the coming destruction of the Earth in our current Era. They knew that an event like this repeats itself in cycles, and therefore it became the basis of their whole religion.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 14, 2007)

Egypt, officially the Arab Republic of Egypt, is a country in North Africa that includes the Sinai Peninsula, a land bridge to Asia. Covering an area of about 1,001,450 square kilometers (386,560 square miles), Egypt borders Libya to the west, Sudan to the south, and Israel and the Gaza Strip to the northeast; on the north and the east are the Mediterranean Sea and the Red Sea, respectively. 

Egypt is famous for its ancient civilization and some of the world's most ancient and important monuments, including the Giza Pyramids and the Great Sphinx of Giza; the southern city of Luxor contains a particularly large number of ancient artifacts such as the Karnak Temple and the Valley of the Kings. Today, Egypt is widely regarded as a main political and cultural centre of the Middle East.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 14, 2007)

It is very important that people continue to solve the riddles hidden in the mist of time - to uncover hidden secrets in an exciting series of discoveries. Many of these secrets still lie hidden in Hawara. They had been kept hidden for millennia from the outside World. But thanks to the unique coding of the Egyptians and the Maya people have been able to discover an advanced pattern in them. They form a one-way communication channel. Mathematical inscriptions and pictograms have a key role in an endless flood of discoveries. Magic numbers in a whirl of calculations. They are the messages from a long-lost, exotic civilization.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 14, 2007)

To the Ancient Egyptians, the star system of Orion was very important. Modern astronomers are of the opinion that it is in this same location that large quantities of new Suns are being born. Even today, Orion is a crucial player in their predicted "end-time" for our current civilization. Many of their expressions are meant to be taken literally, not metaphorically.

The Sunspot Cycle theory, which they mathematically established, can be unveiled again, providing however they managed to perform their observations and extract from them their calculation of the fatal end-time. But their messages of their hieroglyphs, the numeric messages, speak for themselves.

In the distant past, the high priests were aware of this problem. They knew the secret of the codes that was only meant for their eyes. Others did not have a clue how to translate them. However, if anything ever happened to them, later generations would be able to draw their own conclusions on the basis of the numbers. The key to their knowledge  is therefore dominated by mathematical calculations.

In Egypt, the Great Pyramid is an example of a building where important numbers of the shifting of the Zodiac are hidden. This in itself cannot be coincidental, because the Ancient Egyptians originated from a highly developed civilization that found its resting place due to a major cataclysmic event.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 14, 2007)

While deciphering the codes of Egypt, one can find in them the antique masterworks of remote times, and one proof begins to reinforce another. For instance: the number 25,920 shows up in elementary calculations that later form a logical unit in the pyramids. 

Thanks to the work of a man named Robert Bauval, we know that the three Egyptian pyramids are placed according to the constellation Orion. Not only that, but also that they are arranged in such a way that they are reflecting the precession of this constellation, specifically showing the situation of almost 12,000 years ago.

And that is terribly important. The shifting of the Zodiac can be reproduced with mathematical calculations. The survivors of the catastrophe designed a plan with scientific details to show the precise date of the catastrophe. 

And there is more. When the precessions were studied more accurately, the one of 9792 BC appeared to be the same as the one thats coming to us as we approach 2012 AD! And for this reason it would seem that the Ancient Egyptians wanted us to observe this constellation as accurately as possible. Because as soon as we reach the same precession a disaster will take place in our time, and it will be almost identical to the catastrophe that destroyed Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis).


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 15, 2007)

The pyramids, a sort of "star clock", were built by people who were able to calculate the declination of star signs, forwards as well as backwards in time. They were highly civilized scientists. At the same time they were very competent land surveyors who knew everything about geometry and the four directions of the wind. That is why the pyramids need to be examined further. 

*The following words of Robert Bauval about the Great Pyramid tell enough (Fingerprints of the Gods, Hancock, 1995):*

"Watch its power. It forces you to a specific thinking process....It forces you to learn. The moment you ask a question about it, you ask a question about construction, about geometry, about astronomy. You will begin to realize slowly how advanced it is. And you will want to find out. That's its power."


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 15, 2007)

A precession number is hidden in the Great Pyramid. One discovers in it an angle of 72 degrees that leads to the number 25,920: 72 x 360 = 25,920 = the precession number. The number 72 is mentioned here to give a code value.

In her book _The Death of Gods in Ancient Egypt_, the archeo-astronomer Jane B. Sellers states that the legend of Osiris is intentionally coded with a couple of key numbers, with which one can derive surprisingly exact values. It takes 72 years to complete a shift of one degree over the ecliptic. And according to Sellers, this number, the basic ingredient of the precession code, shows up persistently in antique myths and in architecture.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 15, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians were capable of thinking in the Ancient Atlantean way. They were able to encode essential numbers in such simple calculations so that we would be able to discover them in our modern times. 
To understand the basics of their numbers one has to go back to the year of 21,312 BC. At that time the Earth was turning 72 degrees in the Zodiac. There is a logical path to this. A circle has 360 degrees. When you subtract 72 you get 288 degrees. The number 2,880 appears to have an essential value in the Sunspot Cycle. This proves that the same number was used several times.

2,880 was another "Holy Number" for the Ancient Egyptians. Every 1,461 years they celebrated the Sothic cycle. This requires further explanation, because several ancient Egyptian mysteries can now be correlated. Once more this will show how the Ancient Egyptians interwove their knowledge and science with their buildings.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 15, 2007)

It all has to do with the star Sirius, the "Holy Numbers", and the pyramids. In Dendera the star Sirius rises every year with a deceleration of six hours. Every four years this results in one day of deceleration. After 365.25 x 4, which equals 1,461 years, Sirius has travelled a whole cycle. 

This interval is called "God's Year" by the Ancient Egyptians. In those days Sirius had risen 1,460 times. The hieroglyphic notation for Sirius has the shape of a triangle with its vertex upwards. It is indentical to the one for "the creative bundle of beams" that can be found in all the scriptures and archives.

But what does it mean? This "light"? Well, according to the sacred scriptures, it originates in the twelve star signs. Except for a couple of days, it is constantly visible in the regions of the tropic of Cancer. Every morning at Sunrise it appears in the East and every night, shortly after Sunset, in the West. It starts at a high point in the sky, from where it comes down and unfolds itself into a huge pyramid that has the basic geometrical shape of a beautiful triangle.

From the temple of Dendera in Egypt you can watch this clear vision for more than half an hour. In December and January one can see this phenomenon at its best. Especially during the twilight, one can be overwhelmed by it. It is as if this clear light in its neat geometrical pyramid shape was sent by a divine power from an exact point in the Milky Way Galaxy. It vanishes, just as quickly as it appears. Should a person see this phenomenon, this almost magically pyramid shaped light will surprise you. To the Old Egyptians, it was a sort of supernatural phenomenon, a "divine" sign of the Creator, who was sending it to his Earthly creatures.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 15, 2007)

I had to include these links to pictures of the Milky Way Galaxy because it has to be the simple most Beautiful thing I have ever seen in my entire life:

http://www.news.wisc.edu/newsphotos/images/Milky_Way_galaxy_sun05.jpg

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...lky+Way&type=jpeg&no=3&tt=80,186&fr=yfp-t-455

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...&no=7&tt=78,173&oid=93a37fff2e34996e&ei=UTF-8

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...&no=8&tt=78,173&oid=d81068fb66689918&ei=UTF-8

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...&no=6&tt=78,173&oid=dbdfe06ad8d5cf2e&ei=UTF-8


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 15, 2007)

The Masters of Measures and Numbers and the high priests of Ancient Egypt studied the Milky Way phenomenon thoroughly, focusing on the physical charecteristics of this light and its influence on the mind. They made plans to copy it on an Earthly scale.

The Star Sirius was also associated with this radiant light. Its hieroglyph literally stood for: "The radiant light that glows on Earth with its divine particles, thanks to Sirius."

Nowadays modern astronomers know the Zodiacal light only too well. They suspect that it results from the ionization of the air, like the northern lights. But they still do not really know what causes it. There are plenty of theories going around, but up to now none of them have been satisfactory.

In any case, it is an impressive phenomenon. Seen from the roof of the temple of Dendera it must have been a magical show. Thousands of years ago, they used to stay there watching and investigating the sky for nights on end. Besides the pyramidal bundle of radiant light beams which came forth from a steady, high point in the Milky Way, just about nothing emanating from that unknown point in our galaxy could escape the attention of the masters and their still-inexperienced pupils.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 15, 2007)

Here are some pictures of this Zodiacal Light that the Ancient Egyptians were so fond of.

If you look closely at picture number 1, you can almost make out a perfect pyramid if you were to draw the lines using the Blue/White Light in the shape of a triangle.

http://zodiacal-light.hit.bg/zl_files/images.html


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 16, 2007)

The course of all the planets was strictly calculated and recorded by the Ancient Egyptians. Moreover, as soon as the pyramid of light (The Zodiacal Light) disappeared, some specific grooves made it possible to precisely delineate the movement of Sirius. The "Papyrus of Kahoen" proves that they were able to do it.

These astronomers from long-lost times compiled from this document some charts that showed the height of Sirius above the Sun, on the geographical degree of the latitude of Dendera. This had to be done very precisely, in order to check the end of the calendar. Again the "Papyrus of Kahoen" proves that they were able to do this.

*A high priest of Ancient Egypt tells us the following when his words are translated into English:*

_"The glorious rise of our loyal Sirius will take place in the fourth month of Perit of this year, on the fifteenth day, to be exact. Mention this date to people in your vicinity and announce it at the entrance of your temple, so that the believers will celebrate that day joyfully and bring the required sacrifices."_

The date noted at the end of this message is the third month of Perit, the eighth day: this has been proved and acknowledged by just about all Egyptologists. 

So, this scripture was written 37 days before the actual occurrence. But besides this, thousands of years beforehand, the same calculations were made. This proves the high standard of the Ancient Egyptian astronomy.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 16, 2007)

The course of all the planets was strictly calculated and recorded by the Ancient Egyptians. Moreover, as soon as the pyramid of light (The Zodiacal Light) disappeared, some specific grooves made it possible to precisely delineate the movement of Sirius. The "Papyrus of Kahoen" proves that they were able to do it.

These astronomers from long-lost times compiled from this document some charts that showed the height of Sirius above the Sun, on the geographical degree of the latitude of Dendera. This had to be done very precisely, in order to check the end of the calendar. Again the "Papyrus of Kahoen" proves that they were able to do this.

*A high priest of Ancient Egypt tells us the following when his words are translated into English:*

_"The glorious rise of our loyal Sirius will take place in the fourth month of Perit of this year, on the fifteenth day, to be exact. Mention this date to people in your vicinity and announce it at the entrance of your temple, so that the believers will celebrate that day joyfully and bring the required sacrifices."_

The date noted at the end of this message is the third month of Perit, the eighth day: this has been proved and acknowledged by just about all Egyptologists. 

So, this scripture was written 37 days before the actual occurrence. But besides this, thousands of years beforehand, the same calculations were made. This proves the high standard of the Ancient Egyptian astronomy.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 16, 2007)

The above-mentioned decipherings of the Sothic Cycle are only the tip of the iceberg. They show up many times in other calculations and in analyses of numbers. The Ancient Egyptians knew where their inherited knowledge came from. Establishing elementary codes was of key significance, in order that these numbers could easily be found by means of other numbers, providing a way to correct the reservoir of affected traditions, to gain back the full meaning of distorted memories.

So here we cannot simply talk about coincidence, but only about a purposeful way of thinking, conducted by brilliant minds. They combined their astronomical observations into calculations that were easy to understand. 

The Egyptian "Holy Numbers" originate from the calculations that led to the previous Pole-Shift. Their mother country Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis) completely disappeared. The accompanying shock was so devastating that these numbers were imprinted in their memory forever and ever.

The pyramids of the Ancient Egyptians contain numbers that were used to calculate the date of the downfall of Atlantis. They honored in this way all those who had died during those events. But this proves in addition the reliability of their way of calculation.

Through this we find the fact that the precession code of the previous Pole-Shift that destroyed Atlantis is similar to the one that we have coming to us within the next 5-6 years as we come closer and closer to December 21, 2012. In fact, the pyramids inform us of what is going to happen.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 16, 2007)

In the present cycle, you can find the same code numbers that were used in Ancient Egypt. The circular movement of Venus above Orion, with an identicle code as the one in 9792 BC, is going to return again around 2012 AD! This is the most crucial aspect of all. Because NOTHING will be able to stop the Earth's Poles from Shifting. Nothing. No scientist, no machine, no amount of technology. Nothing.

And the thing I want to make very clear to all of you folks, is that the Ancient Atlanteans had 2,000 years to prepare for the last Pole-Shift. 

We have less than 6 to prepare for the next one.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 17, 2007)

In the previous posts you have already read about the history of Aha-Men-Ptah, which over time became known phonetically as Atlantis. You have also read about the catastrophe that took place in 21,312 BC when Atlantis became partially covered by snow and ice at the North Pole. You should now also know that in 9792 BC the poles reversed and a massive shift in the Earth's crust occurred. In one night, Aha-Men-Ptah disappeared.

The periods between those two cataclysms, (one rapid shifting and one reversal) was 11,520 years. The most recent of those catastrophes definitely took place, because the year 9792 BC correlates with the star code mentioned in the Egyptian Book of the Dead. During several months of that year, Venus made a retrograde movement behind the sign of Gemini, to the left and above the constellation Orion. This code proves the accuracy of that date.

According to the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Venus code returns around 2012, which in turn will cause a reversal of the Earth's magnetic poles which will result in huge earthquakes and massive oceanic tidal waves.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 17, 2007)

The numbers discussed in the previous posts disguise unprecedented Human dramas and spectacular natural phenomena. You see, people are used to seeing the Sun rise in the East. On March 21, the first day of spring, the Sun is always in the same spot, in height as well as latitude. The Sun also rises at the same place on the horizon. It reaches its highest point at the same place. Starting with this fact, the ancient scientists calculated the precession of the Zodiac.

So far everything is normal. But, had it always been like that? Had the Sun always risen in the same spot? In old scriptures there are testimonies of catastrophes that made the Earth "turn over". Nothing was the same after that. 


*This shocking sentence comes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead:*

_"I have placed the Sun on a new horizon."_ 


This can be explained as follows: after the slide of the Earth's crust, the Sun rose in a different place on the horizon. Keeping this in mind, everbody will understand this remarkable sentence.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 17, 2007)

If you happen to live in Sweden, you know that in the summer the Sun hardly ever sets, and that the daylight shines brightly all day long - the famous midsummer-night Sun. 

At the equator the story is quite different; there the Sun "goes to sleep early" and sinks completely in a few minutes. Holidaymakers who visit exotic islands know this only too well. One moment there is bright daylight and the next there is sudden darkness, as if the "End Times" have struck as quickly as lightning. 

Imagine now that you are living in England when suddenly, the Earth's crust slides and, in one big blow, your town is moved to tropical regions thousands of kilometers away. For anyone remaining alive, it will be clear to him or her that the Sun will rise and set on a totally different plane. You don't have to be an astronomer to prove this. Just like in the tropics, the Sun will rise from a different spot, will stand much higher in the sky, will shine brighter and will set much quicker.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 17, 2007)

The fact is that Heredotus (also known as the "Father of History writing"), wrote an extremely intriguing side-note in his report on Egypt. It literally says that the Egyptians had assured him, "that the Sun rose twice where it is setting now". To date, many scientists have ignored this highly remarkable statement. They simply detach themselves from it laconically.


*A latin writer, Pomponius Mela, wrote in the first century:*

"In the authentic annals of the Egyptians one can read that the course of the stars has changed its directions four times, and that the sun set twice on the place where it is now rising." *(De situ Orbis; 9.8)*


Here mela underlines what Herodotus wrote. Not only the Sun but also the stars changed the direction of their course! When you think about this, it produces a new code. Instead of rising in the East, it rose in the West and vice versa.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 17, 2007)

The code of the Egyptians has, therefore, a twofold meaning. Not only was the height of the rising Sun different, but so was the direction it was travelling in! 


*In the Papyrus of Ipuwer it is stated:*

_"The land is turning around like a potter's wheel."_


*And the Papyrus of Harris points out:* 

_"If the South becomes the North, fire and water will ravage the Earth while it is turning over."_ 


A remark of this kind points to the fact that the magnetic field of the Earth had reversed.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 17, 2007)

Through the coming Pole-Shift, the land areas will collapse and titanic earthquakes and tidal waves will torment the whole Earth. Some Continents will sink, while others will rise. After the elements calm down, it will be evident that the Earth's rotation will have reversed to a clockwise rotation, from left to right. Try to realize that after the catastrophe you are heading for the Sunrise-because the Earth is turning clockwise! This means that the Sun will inevitably rise in the West and not in the East!


*It has already happened many times before, as proved by the pyramid texts translated by K. Piehl in his book Inscriptions Hieroglyphiques (page 65: L'ouest qui est a'l Occident):*

_"The Light Source stopped living in the West. A new one now appears in the East."_


*A bit further the same text clarifies:*

_"The West, that is to say, there where the Sun sets."_


*In bygone days this was the other way around. In Breasted's Ancient Records of Egypt, Part III, the inscriptions unmistakably explain the following:*

_"Harakhte, she rises in the West."_


Harakhte is the Egyptian name for the Sun in the West.


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## ErikViking (Mar 19, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> If you happen to live in Sweden, you know that in the summer the Sun hardly ever sets, and that the daylight shines brightly all day long - the famous midsummer-night Sun.


Sorry if I mess up your thread now.

But the sun shines brighly all NIGHT long. And that is a pain in... you know.
Are you saying the "tilt" will remedy this? And all it will cost are some soccer-huligans?

Seriously, with som many predictions, surley some must be correct - but this is more a matter of statistics.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 19, 2007)

ErikViking said:


> Sorry if I mess up your thread now.
> 
> But the sun shines brighly all NIGHT long. And that is a pain in... you know.
> Are you saying the "tilt" will remedy this? And all it will cost are some soccer-huligans?
> ...



Well what I was really trying to explain is that after the Pole-Shift, Sweden will be quite different, yes, but another place in the World will have a similar Sunlight situation to what Sweden has at the moment.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 19, 2007)

The astronomical facts in the tomb of Senmut, the architect of Queen Hatshepsut, prove that this is the correct translation. Not far from the Valley of the Kings, Hatshepsut built the World-famous temple, where her architect was depicted in the niches of the central corridor. His grave is situated at the north of the road that leads to the temple. 

The architectural composition of this temple is extremely impressive; it comprises a succession of terraces and elongated doorways, which are silhouetted beautifully against the vertical mountainside. A staircase leads to a terrace, which is closed off by a double portico. The northwest corner of the building is devoted to Anubis. He is depicted on the walls of the vestiblue with twelve pillars. In the middle of the rear wall, a small, vaulted corridor led to the sanctuaries.  

There is a courtyard in a terrace on a higher level of the building which has a square Sun-alter facing north, which proves that the Egyptians were "Sun worshippers".


Here are some pictures of Queen Hatshepsut's temple:


http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-b...l/cid_1008998847_Hatshepsuts_Temple_JAG1.html 

http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-b...l/cid_1008999727_Hatshepsuts_Temple_JAG2.html

http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-b...ml/cid_1009000586_Hatshepsuts_Temple_RH1.html

http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-b...ml/cid_1009000718_Hatshepsuts_Temple_RH2.html


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 19, 2007)

Considering the main role of the Sun during the catastrophic events which led to the reversal of the poles, this is quite logical; which brings us back to the grave of the architect of Queen Hatshepsut's temple. The temple holds a well-kept secret from ancient times. Its ceiling contains a panel which shows the hemisphere of the southern sky. Nothing special, you might think, until you study this a bit more closely. The signs of the Zodiac and other star signs are not depicted, as you presently know them; you will see them instead in a reversed orientation. The group of Orion-Sirius takes up the center of the southern panel of the Senmut ceiling. Orion, however, is situated on the west side, instead of the east side of Sirius, like a mirror image.

This is sheer madness for astronomers. In _The Astronomical Ceiling Decoration in the Tomb of Senmut_, A. Pogo writes: "The orientation of the southern panel is such, that one who is lying in the tomb and wants to look at it, has to lift up his head and face the North, not the South."

Other astronomers are baffled as well and wonder why the Egyptians did it. It seems completely illogical to them, because through the mirror-image orientation, Orion seems to move to the East, that is, in the wrong direction.

However Herodotus gave a plausible explanation for this, and still, there is yet another. Orion was the most important star system for the Egyptians. Misplacing it would have meant blasphemy. Therefore we have to see the explanation in the light of their religion. All the events that occurred during the previous catastrophe have a special place. After the immense cataclysm, the poles reversed: south became north. This also means that east and west changed places.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 19, 2007)

Here we have what inspired the architect. By placing Orion in a reversed position, he showed that a pole reversal had occurred and that the direction of the wind had changed. He could not have been clearer. In the meantime, we have also learned that the pyramids of Gizeh were placed according to the constellation Orion. To many people's astonishment they also form a mirror image from the sky!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

Before the cataclysm of 21,312 BC, Atlantis had been in Sagittarius for 720 years. In one blow, the Earth was then catapulted forward to the Age of Aquarius. The movement of the Earth didn't reverse this time. Since there was only a sudden shift of the Ages, we know that the Earth's core kept turning in the same direction. If it had reversed, the Ages would have gone in the opposite direction, as after the first cataclysm.

Into which age we shall be catapulted this time is just guesswork, but it is a mathematical certainty that it will entail a huge catastrophe. The longer the period between the crashes, the stronger will be the bottled-up forces and their discharge. For this reason the Zodiac was "sacred" to the Egyptians. It reminded them how the recurring catastrophes could affect the Earth and specifically their civilization. They were happy when they reached a new age without destruction, and then they honored that fact by building spectacular buildings.

The many sphinxes of the ages of Taurus and Aries are overwhelming examples of this. The largest spiritual monument they left us - the Sphinx - also points to the previous catastrophe that completely destroyed their land of origin. Indeed, in 9792 BC, during the Age of the Lion (The Age of Leo), their original continent, Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis), sank in one day and one night in the tempestuous waters, to be finally covered by ice.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

Here is a picture of the Ancient Egyptian Zodiac of Dendera:


http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterOne/PhotoSouthViewDenderahHathor.htm


The shifting of the Zodiac was for the Egyptians the central point in their way of thinking. The Egyptians gave a different time period to the different Ages of the Zodiac.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Great Sphinx of Egypt which symbolizes that the last Pole-Shift occurred during the Age of Leo (The Lion):


http://timonk.com/ewallpaper/sphinx_l.jpg

http://petrov.com.ua/Egypt/images/Gisa_Sphinx_Pyramid.jpg

http://icwww.epfl.ch/~wuillem//voyages/sharm2002/ca31_sphinx_b.jpg

http://www.mein-altaegypten.de/Aegypten_Site/Aegypten_Site.data/images/Alt_Aegypten_1/Sphinx.jpeg

http://www.sbg.ac.at/geo/leute/alt/kern/exkursionen/sphinx.jpg


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## glockmail (Mar 20, 2007)

So when are you going to publish this gawddamn novel so we don't have to see this gawddamn thread anymore?


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 20, 2007)

You have to give it to this nut. He has stamina.


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## boedicca (Mar 20, 2007)

I have this overhwhelming urge to sing and dance to "Walk Like An Egyptian".


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## glockmail (Mar 20, 2007)

onthefence said:


> You have to give it to this nut. He has stamina.


 All I can figger he wrote a book and this is the only way he can can get it published.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

The code number that the Ancient Egyptians used for Venus was 576. In fact, the Ancient Egyptians were able to calculate exactly the synodic period of Venus. 

The Ancient Egyptians were able to calculate the synodic period of Venus because it is visible for such a long time. When it is positioned at the East side of the Sun, it is visible at night above the West. Venus then becomes a night star. It's so brilliant that it attracts everybody's attention. But when it is on the West side of the Sun, then it is a morning star. In summer you can hardly see it. But as the morning star in November, December or January, it does catch everybody's eye.

Venus appears 263 days as a morning star and 263 days as a night star. Furthermore, for 50 days it is not visible, and it disappears for eight days behind the Sun. 

Now, if you add up 263 with 263, what do you get? You get the number 526. Now, what happens when you add the 50 days that Venus is not visible to the number 526? You get the code number that the Ancient Egyptians used to represent Venus - 576.

This mysterious number from the Egyptian Zodiac is there to point out the code of Venus!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Venus close up:


http://www.jimloy.com/astro/venus0.jpg

http://www.planeten-finden.de/planet_venus.jpg

http://www.blinde-kuh.de/weltall/venus.jpg

http://www.hotliquidmagma.com/space/pics/venus.jpg

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/images/cassini/venus_apod_med.jpg


Here are some pictures of Venus the way it looks as a Night Star:


http://obswww.unige.ch/~cramer/images.jpg/venus87-a.jpg

http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/nat...ops-in-London-late-December-tweaked-1-BRM.jpg

http://www.utahskies.org/image_library/shallowsky/conjunctions/VenusCrescentMoon20050607-2crsm.jpg


Here is a picture of Venus as at Dusk:


http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/nat...in-London-December-dusk-8s-exposure-2-DHD.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

The number 576 stands for Venus and was used as a code number in the Egyptian Zodiac. From a mathematical point of view, this proves a correspondence between the shifting of the Zodiac and Venus.

After 584 days, Venus is again positioned in the same spot in the sky where it hides behind the Sun for eight days. The number series is clear. It shows the connection between Venus and the Sun.

When you look very closely at the two previous Pole-Shifts on the Earth, you will see the number 576 twice. It is connected with the Zodiac. 

After the Pole-Shift of 21,312 BC, the Earth remained in the sign of Aquarius for 576 years.

Before the Pole-Shift of 9792 BC, it remained in the sign of Leo for 576 years.

More than once, this code number of Venus has proved to be of utmost importance for this planet!


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

Venus is the second planet of our Solar System, and it is also related to the Pole-Shift. How? What logical relation could there be between the Pole-Shift event and Venus? 

A so-called Venus cult had the maturity of the advanced civilization of Atlantis.

A lot of information about the past has been lost, but you can infer a lot of things by thinking logically and doing some research. 

All nations of Central America ascribe huge symbolic importance to this planet. The Egyptians, too, understood that Venus was a "morning star" as well as an "evening star."

When decoding the Ancient Egyptian Zodiac you come across the number 576 that symbolizes Venus. This number allows for the decoding of an astonishing series of things, bequeathing anyone who looks into it with an immeasurable inheritance, most of which has been lost in the mists of time.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

A very long time ago events had taken place that connected Venus with previously occurring disturbances on the Sun. But what mysterious events could these have been? What was so miraculous that caused such turmoil in the minds of the Ancient Priests? Why were they including some sort of relation with Venus in their predictive astronomical science? What terrible memories of the destructive catastrophe could be related to this? 

During the previous Pole-Shift the Sun spat around innumerable amounts of electromagnetic particles. Auroras set our atmosphere alight. And just like that of the Earth, the atmosphere of Venus was also set alight. Only the effects on Venus were more intense, because of its close proximity to the Sun, and the particles hitting it were many times more concentrated than what reached the Earth.

Ancient scriptures declare that a "second Sun" appeared in the starry skies. But there was more. When the Sunstorm reached Venus, it's power hadn't diminished. From Venus' uppermost atmospheric layers, gas-like substances were ripped off and lit by a sort of "Celestial Bengal Hell Fire", forming a magnificently illuminated comet tail.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

Very ancient Mexican scriptures also describe these phenomena:

 First, they say, a celestial body attacked the Sun, thereafter the Sun refused to appear for several days. The World was robbed of light. Countless met their death while this disaster raged on Earth.

Then, they say, the body changed into a star. It appeared in the East.


*In Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision you read the following:*

"Then appeared a big star. The sky, to show her wrath made a huge number of people perish; they died of hunger and pestilence. It was then that the people, again calculated the days, nights and hours. One sees her appearance the moment the World starts to resurrect from the chaos of the big world cataclysm."


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 20, 2007)

The birth of the morning star was a widely popular motif in the legends of Eastern and Western nations. Time and time again the image appears in the same way. A Burning star interrupted the visible movement of the Sun, and became a morning-evening star, and caused a World-fire. 

In Babylon the morning-evening star was called Ishtar, which when translated means the "Star of Lamentations".


*The following is from Langdon, Sumerian and Babylonian Psalms, 1909:*


Because I make the heavens tremble and the earth shake,
For the glow that illuminates the sky,
For the flames of fire that rain upon the hostile country, I am Ishtar.
Ishtar I am, because of the light that rises in the sky.
Ishtar, the celestial queen I am, because of the light that rises in the sky
That is my fame.
I conquer the mountains completely.
That is my fame.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 21, 2007)

In Polynesia, until recently, people were still sacrificed to the morning star Venus. Boys and girls were sacrificed to the Arabic morning star, the celestial queen "al-Uzza", until modern times as well. Such faith in drestructive powers of this planet could not have been invented without reason. This "Second Star" made the Earth tilt, harassed it with fire, boosted the win to destructive speeds and made the water rise to catastrophic heights. 

In short, Venus was a very vivid image that remained in the minds of those who survived the previous catastrophes. That is why the Atlanteans and their descendants converted the numbers of Venus into codes and included them in their calculations!

After the Sun and the Moon, Venus was the most eye-catching celestial body in the starry sky of those days. When the forthcoming catastrophe occurs, Venus will shine again and will be a painful reminder of legends related by almost all nations of the World.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 21, 2007)

The discovery of the link between Venus and the catastrophe irrefutably explains a lot of things. It logically confirms findings relating to the Egyptian Zodiac, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, and others.

In fact, there is even a mathematical relation between Venus and the Sunspot cycle. But these are not the only relations that exist. Venus also makes retrograde movements, forming loops in the sky.

Sometime around 2012 Venus will make a perfect loop above Orion. A peculiar fact, however, is that this retrograde movement of Venus is mentioned in the Book of the Dead as the code of the reversal of the magnetic field of the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 21, 2007)

The Old Egyptians were not the only ones who know of the forthcoming Pole-Shift.


*The Pawnee Mythology, states the following:*

_"The elder ones tell us that the morning star said that when the moon became red, people would know of the forthcoming end of the world."

"Furthermore, the morning star said that at the beginning of all things, she had put the Northern Star in the north, and that at the beginning of all things she would allow the Southern Star to come a bit closer - once in a while -  to watch the Northen star and see whether she was still in the north. Should she still be there, she would have to return to her place."

"The order to end all things will be given by the Northern Star, and the Southern Star will execute it. When the End Time draws, new stars will fall again upon the earth."_


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 21, 2007)

In the story of the Pawnee Indians you recognize the retrograde movement of Venus. It follows a whole circle. Venus was therefore thought to be capable of reversing the position of the South Pole and the North Pole by making this planetary loop.

Similar to many other nations, the Pawnees believed that the future destruction of Earth depends on the planet Venus. At the end, the North and South Pole will change places.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 21, 2007)

Venus is a link between the deadly gyrations that hit the Earth before and those that will soon hit it again. The directions of the wind will reverse and a period of darkness will torment the skies. From then on, Venus will herald a new era.

By means of old scriptures and the rest of the astronomical remnants of the Old Egyptians and others, one can retrieve a whole bunch of elementary data. The mathermatical relations prove the old legends, and the old legends in turn prove to us what happened.

The Old Egyptians and others share common characteristics related to the catastrophe that is going to hit us.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 21, 2007)

In The Egyptian Zodiac, the number of Venus is hidden and used many times. The deciphering shows this quite clearly. Venus gives the main code for the reversal of the magnetic field of the Sun. 

In the year of the previous crash, 9792 BC, Venus made a planetary loop during several months behind Gemini on the left side above Orion. 

Around 2012, Venus will make a similar movement, but this time it will be exactly above Orion, and the Earth will start turning the other way around after the reversal of the poles.

The Sunspot cycle concerns the magnetic fields of the Sun and the Sunstorms, while the Egyptian Zodiac shows their consequences for the Earth. 

When the magnetic field of the Sun changes, the influence on Earth is catastrophic. The Earth has landed in another Age of the Zodiac after ever single case of the previous Pole-Shifts.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 22, 2007)

As the Ancient Priests of Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis) studied the Sun attentively, they must have seen cearly the two previous broken-off reversals.

Nobody could have failed to notice such intensified activity. Having this theoretical formula at their disposal, they had only to project the data into the future in order to calculate the next point. This is how they were able to calculate the exact date, foretelling the end of their civilization in 9792 BC! They were totally convinced that this would be accompanied by a huge amount of cosmic violence. 

After all, the third reversal coincides with the normal one of a Sunspot cycle. This implies that the forces are amplified many more times, instead of being crossed! Hence perhaps the expression: "Third time's a charm."

Thousands of years later, the descendants of Ancient Egypt calculated the forthcoming Pole-Shift that we have coming to us around 2012. But because alot of this superior knowledge has been lost, we didn't get the "official" warning, meaning that we are for the most part going blindfolded towards this catastrophe. 

However high our technology could have evolved, a pole reversal will lead to the loss of almost all of our knowledge - the "Armageddon", the definite end of Humankind as we know it.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 22, 2007)

Without a doubt the Ancient Egyptian's Sothic cycle contains a coded message: its decipherings leads to the exact orbit of the Earth around the Sun.

The Egyptians honored Sirius for certain reasons: thanks to this star the High Priests were able to deduce many valuable astronomical and other key numbers in a simple way. These decipherings stunningly prove that the Ancient Egyptians had achieved a much higher level of knowledge than present scientists might ever suspect. 

You will find a special reference to the Sothic cycle in the history of Manetho, a priest from Heliopolis. He wrote extensive lists about the early pharaohs of Egypt and the historical dynasties of even older periods. Manetho claimed that from the age of the "gods" until the end of the thirtieth dynasty, the civilization was 36,525 years old. When you look carefully at this number, you find it in twenty-five cycles of 1,460 Sothic years and twenty-five cycles of 1,461 calendar years of 365 days.

Those mumbers are the driving force behind their legends. Only because of their phenomenal degree of accuracy were they able to calculate the previous reversal with such great certainty.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 22, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Sirius Star System that the Ancient Egyptians honored because of the wisdom and guidance that they gained from it:


http://www.sirianrevelations.net/images/star_a_B.jpg

http://www.sirianrevelations.net/images/sirius1.jpg

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~ballisti/pictures/sirius_rosat.gif

http://www.sirianrevelations.net/images/sirius.jpg

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/the_universe/images/SiriusBx.jpg

http://www.star.le.ac.uk/~mab/Root_folder/sirius_oct2001_revvid.jpg


Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky: over 20 times brighter than our Sun and over twice as massive. It is at 8.7 light years distance in the constellation "Canis Majoris". Sirius is actually a binary system: Sirius B is 10'000 times dimmer than the bright primary and is a white dwarf.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 22, 2007)

There are many number series and codes in the Ancient Egyptian legends that have been converted into their monuments.


*Here's a quote from the old Gnostic texts from the Nag Hammadi Library that many of you might find interesting:*

"Build monuments as a representation of the spiritual places...and to enlighten the people with important knowledge about the future."


In other words, the pyramids, the Sphinx and many other miraculous buildings from a distant past are standing here to warn us and arouse our curiosity, so that we start the search for the "why".


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 22, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the pyramids of Gizeh in Egypt:


http://www.travellersinegypt.org/img/images/pyramids-Gizeh.jpg

http://www.virtualdali.com/assets/paintings/54PyramidsAndTheSphynxOfGi.jpg

http://www.plaza.ch/stones/Pictures/TunisAirPyramids.jpg

http://www.bc-enschede.nl/wenglish/grassroots/20questions/hemelt_boswinkel/gizeh.jpg

http://www.exn.ca/news/images/2000/02/14/20000214-giza-pyramids1.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 22, 2007)

In his book _The Orion Mystery_, Bauval proved that the pyramids were built according to the Orion constellation as it appeared 12,000 years ago. 

The construction of the pyramids is related to the precession of the Orion constellation in 9792 BC, the year of the previous Pole-Shift.

In those times the Sphinx was looking at its celestial counterpart. As you already know, the last Pole-Shift took place in the Age of Leo.

Therefore we are here confronted with a sky-Earth dualism, a serious warning about what happened then and what is awaiting us now. Even worse, the precession of those days is identical to the one we have coming soon on our way to the year 2012, on the countdown to our next Pole-Shift.

Exactly as it did in 9792 BC, Venus will make a perfect circular retrograde loop around 2012 above the Orion constellation. In the Egyptian Book of the Dead this code is denoted as the movement that foreshadows the end.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

Today our Sun is said to be shifting from the astrological sign of Pisces into that of Aquarius, as the precessional movement of the Poles makes the backround of stars move by a tiny distance, relative to the Earth, across the sky.

The signs each take around 2,160 years to shift from one constellation to the other (30 degrees), meaning that they shift around one degree every 72 years. 

The eighteenth dynasty existed during the precessional period of Aries, the ram. At that time astrologers would say that "the Sun was in the sign of Aries."

Prior to this, more than 4,165 years ago, the Sun was in the sign of Taurus, the bull, and at that time the bull was worshipped by the Egyptians at Memphis during the early dynasty periods, which became associated with Osiris (this is known from objects found in the Serapeum at Saqqara).


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

British astronomer Norman Lockyer demonstrated the astronomical significance of the alignment of temples at the Karnak complex. On the day of the summer solstice, Sunlight penetrated along the axis of the temple of Amun-Ra to the sanctuary at the far end, illuminating a statue of Ra. He noticed that star temples, used as observatories by the Ancient Egyptians, were built to observe the movement of rising stars, just before dawn.

Lockyer calculated that the layout of temples appeared to mark time in accordance with the precessional period. A survey embracing the chronological development and construction of the Karnak complex showed the successive temples had been realigned four times, corresponding to precessional movements of the stars, thereby meeting the demands of the ever-changing sky.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

The evidence is clear. The Egyptians from the earliest times were preoccupied with the movements of stars and planets.

In _The Orion Mystery_ Robert Bauval showed that hitherto unexplored shafts from the King's Chamber and the Queen's Chamber in the Great Pyramid of Cheops, at Giza, were aligned to point to the stars of Orion and Sirius. 

The northern shafts similarly suggested purposeful alignments; one from the Queen's Chamber points directly at Beta Ursa Minor, which was associated with cosmic regeneration to the Egyptians and the immortality of the Soul, while the northern shaft from the King's Chamber points towards Alpha Draconis in the constellation of the dragon, which the Egyptians associated with fertility.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the star system Orion which meant ALOT to the Ancient Egyptians, so much so that they aligned some of their pyramids with it:


http://www.cadas.net/images/orion.jpg

http://www.astromax.com/con-page/images/orion852.jpg

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0302/orion_spinelli_c1.jpg

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/astro/hst_betelgeuse.jpg

http://www.physics.brocku.ca/doc/astronomy/Stars+Solar_System/NEBULAE/orion.trapez.jpg

http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm/Images/Chiefland_03/Orion_early/_Orion.jpg

http://www.physics.brocku.ca/doc/astronomy/Stars+Solar_System/NEBULAE/orion_btc_big.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

Here is a picture of the Beta Ursa Minor star system which the northern shaft of the Queen's Chamber in the Great Pyramid of Cheops, at Giza, points to:

http://www.botproductions.com/stellar/images/chart_umi.gif


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the system of Alpha Draconis which the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid of Cheops at Giza points to:

http://dibonsmith.com/dra_1.gif

http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/CM&#37;20Draconis Planetary System.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

But it was not just these shafts that had a story to tell, because again, the layout of the three pyramids at the Giza complex are arranged exactly as the three stars of Orion's belt. By laying out the pyramids as they did, the Ancient Egyptians were re-creating the heavens on the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

So here we have the civilization of Ancient Egypt that worshipped the Sun, which they knew was connected with fertility in female Human Beings. Modern science 5,000 years later, using the latest in space-age exploration, has only just reached the same conclusions.

The Sun really does control fertility hormones in females through regulation of the 28-day menstrual cycle. And the Moon plays a part in the process as well.

The Ancient Egyptians worshipped the Sun as the "feathered snake", and again modern man has only just reached the same conclusion, because the "feathered snake" represents the 11-year Sunspot cycle carried on top of the 'nuetral warp' of the Sun's magnetic field.

The Ancient Egyptians also understood complex astronomical relationships, aligning their temples to meet the precessional cycle, reflecting the precession of the heavens on the Earth.

They even carved the Zodiac into many of their temples (such as Dendera), aligned their collosal pyramids with star patterns in the sky (such as at Giza) and, using their architectural pointers, showed us the places in the sky that they were fond of.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 23, 2007)

The evidence suggests that these people were much cleverer than was originally thought. The intellectual ascent of man has not been linear. 

In Egypt we see the presence of a higher intelligence on two distinct occasions in history, both of which coincide with the worship of the Sun itself: the fourth-dynasty pyramid age and the eighteenth dynasty of Tutankhamun 1,000 years later.

Both of these occasions saw a burst of creative accomplishment that saturated Egypt, technologically, scientifically and artistically, the likes of which the World has never seen since, apart from the miraculous achievements of the Sun-worshipping Maya in Mexico.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 24, 2007)

Towards the end of the Ancient Egyptian's civilization, things started to go down hill, and much of if not almost all of it was related to the Sun.

The Greek dramatist Sophocles (in _Oedipus Tyrannus_) wrote of diasters and plagues that befell Thebes, which Marie Delcourt (in _Sterilites mysterieuses et naissances malefiques dans l'antiquite classique_, 1938) says was an attempt to show that 'plague' referred to sterility, or barrennes, of women, accompanied by barrenness of cattle and land.

For the Ancient Egyptians, it had become too late. The end had already begun: graphs of the Sun's radiation at around this time (1350 BC), show that a massive Sunspot minimum occurred at that time, causing infertility in females. This was accompanied, at the same time, by a mini-ice age, resulting in less evaporation of waters from the oceans, reduced rainfall globally, and reduced rainfall, particularly in Africa, the source of the Nile, leading to drought and crop failure.

When precipitation does occur, colder temperatures in the upper atmosphere lead to an increase in hail formation at higher altitudes. At the same time an increase in ionising radiation allows more harmful radiation to enter the Earth's atmosphere, resulting in genetic mutation of gestating foetuses and increased infant mortality.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 24, 2007)

All of the above from the last post is mentioned both in the Bible AND in an Ancient Egyptian papyrus of the sage Ipuwer:


_*The river is blood. If one drinks it, one rejects [it] and thirsts for water (Egyptian papyrus 2:10)*_

*...And all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood. And the fish that were in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink the water of the river (Exodus vii, 20, 21)*


_*Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere (Egyptian papyrus 2:6)*_

*...And there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt (Exodus vii, 7:21)*


_*All animals, their hearts weep, cattle moan because of the state of the land (Egyptian papyrus 5:5)*_

*Behold, the land of the Lord is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be a very grievous murrain (Exodus ix, 3)*


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 24, 2007)

_*Gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire (Egyptian papyrus 2:10)*_

*...And the Lord sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt (Exodus ix, 23)*


*That has perished which yesterday was seen, and the land is left over to its weakness like the cutting of the flax (Egyptian papyrus 4:14)*

*...And the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field (Exodus ix, 25)*


*The children of princes are dashed against walls. The once prayed for children are now laid on the high ground (Egyptian papyrus 4:3)*

*....And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the first-born in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon (Exodus xii, 29)*


_*Groaning is throughout the land, mingled with lamentations (Egyptian papyrus 3:14); he who places his brother in the land is everywhere...(Egyptian papyrus 2:13)*_

*...And there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where there was not one dead (Exodus xii, 30)*


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 24, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians were able to calculate the Sunspot cycle, which is a theory that our present astronomers barely know! They were somehow able to do this by means of accurate observations of the sky, consistently carried out over thousands of years and with the help of very advanced mathematics. How highly developed must their mathematical knowledge have been? Very highly indeed. Much higher than we thought up to now!

To describe the Sunspot cycle theory in mathematical language, you need to know an incredible amount of information about space geometry (the volume and surface of spheres, for example), the calculation of ellipses, and have a great number of other complex arithmetical skills. And yet, somehow the Ancient Egyptians were able to do it. Their Egyptian papyri prove that they had this knowledge.

What is just as sensational though, is that the Ancient Egyptians must have also known integral and differential equations; or otherwise it would have been just about impossible to calculate the Sunspot cycle! 

And where did all this knowledge come from? It came from their ancestors, the inhabitants of Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis). We can be sure of that thanks to the translation of their story through their ancient hieroglyphs done by people like the Egyptologist Albert Slosman. They encoded these stories into their structures such as in the Temples of Dendera, Edfu, and Esna.

Their stories point to the legacy of a lost civilization that had disappeared during a catastrophic disaster.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 24, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Egyptian temple of Dendera:


http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/dendera32.jpg

http://i-cias.com/egypt/photos/dendera17.jpg

http://www.planetanimals.com/egypt/dendera-temple.jpg

http://i-cias.com/egypt/photos/dendera02.jpg

http://www.jmundyphotography.com/egypt/images/Abydos-entrance.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 24, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Egyptian temple of Edfu:


http://www.sights-and-culture.com/Egypt/Edfu-horus-temple-6840.jpg

http://www.sights-and-culture.com/Egypt/Edfu-horus-temple-pylon-6854.jpg

http://people.brandeis.edu/~smooha/egypt/luxor&#37;20to aswan/Edfu Temple gate.jpg

http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/Edfu_temple_small.jpg

http://bryan.goulstone.org/Edfu/slides/04 EDFU - Temple.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 24, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Egyptian temple of Esna:


http://petrov.com.ua/Egypt/images/Esna_Khnum_Temple_2.jpg

http://petrov.com.ua/Egypt/images/Esna_Khnum_Temple_1.jpg

http://www.aegypten-hotels.com/aegypten/luxor/esna-temple.JPG

http://lexicorient.com/egypt/photos/esna_exterior01.jpg

http://www.charlesmiller.co.uk/fla/images/esna/esna1.jpg


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 25, 2007)

Dude, you need to get laid.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 25, 2007)

onthefence said:


> Dude, you need to get laid.



lol. Mating season has begun!

Not that it matters. I still gotta get this done no matter what.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 25, 2007)

*KING TUT:*


Nebkheperure Tutankhamun (alternately spelled with Tuten-, -amen, -amon; lack of written vowels in Egyptian allows for different transliterations) *tuwt-&#661;ankh-yam&#257;n was a Pharaoh of the Eighteenth dynasty (ruled 1333 BC &#8211; 1324 BC), during the period of Egyptian history known as the New Kingdom. His original name, Tutankhaten, meant "Living Image of Aten", while Tutankhamun meant "Living Image of Amun". He is possibly also the Nibhurrereya of the Amarna letters.

He is also significant as a figure who managed the beginning of the transition from the heretical Atenism of his predecessors Akhenaten and Smenkhkare back to the familiar Egyptian religion. 

As Tutankhamun began his reign at age 9, his vizier and eventual successor Ay was probably making most of the important political decisions during Tutankhamun's reign. Nonetheless, Tutankhamun is, in modern times, one of the most famous of the Pharaohs, and the only one to have a nickname in popular culture ("King Tut"). 

The 1923 discovery by Howard Carter of Tutankhamun's nearly intact tomb (subsequently designated KV62) received worldwide press coverage and sparked a renewed public interest in Ancient Egypt, of which Tutankhamun remains the popular face.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 25, 2007)

A hundred and forty-two objects had been buried in the tomb of King Tut. They were interlaced and woven in the layers of bandages wrapped around the mummified body.

 King Tut himself was object number 144. Here again, this number is mentioned in the Book of Revelation (144,000), and also in Ancient Mayan Culture, and it was an important number for the survivors of Atlantis as well.


*The Book of Revelation in the Bible details the vision that came on St John, a disciple of Christ:*

"I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding
 the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the 
 earth or the sea, nor any tree. And I saw another angel ascending 
 from the east, having the seal of the living God, and he cried with
 a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the 
 earth and the sea, saying, 'Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor 
 the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their
 foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed:
 and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of
 all the tribes of the children of Israel. *(Revelation vii, 1-4)*


The number 144 (followed by zeros) appears to be unique to the Ancients of the World and it goes all the way back to the survivors of Aha-Men-Ptah, the lost continent of Atlantis.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 25, 2007)

Also buried in the tomb of King Tut was a special golden mask. The mask was made from solid gold inlaid with opaque blue glass, imitating lapis lazuli. The mask was made from two pieces of beaten gold sheets, accurate to within one thousandth of an inch in thickness across the entire surface. It measures 54 centimetres (approximately 1 foot 10 inches) high and weighs 10.23 kilogrammes (22 1/2 pounds).

The official interpretation of the significance of the piece simply states that the mask portrays Tutankhamun as Osiris, wearing the nemes, the headcloth of royalty, with a pigtail down the back. The forehead carries the vulture and cobra symbols of Upper and Lower Egypt. 

But there is much more to the the mask than this. Because upon close examination of the mask, from the rear, follows the outline of a Human male symbol representing fertility. The pigtail becomes the central vein along the shaft of the symbol. The rear of the top of the symbol is covered with (26) rays of the Sun (the duration of the equatorial magnetic field of the Sun, on the Sun's surface, in days), linking the Sun with Tutankhamun, and both again, with fertility.

The pigtail also resembles the tail of a bee, which is an insect known to be controlled by the Sun's radiation. 

From the front elevation, the number of horizontal bands corresponds with the rotation of the Sun's equatorial magnetic field seen from the Earth, the 28-day fertility cycle.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 25, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the golden mask, also called "The golden deathmask", that was found buried in King Tut's tomb:


http://www.egyptiandreams.co.uk/keywords/tutankhamun/king&#37;20tut death mask tutankhamun.php

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1735000/images/_1736285_mask150.jpg

http://touregypt.net/museum/tutl18.jpg

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/4/4a/250px-Tutanchamun_Maske.jpg

http://www.egyptreservation.com/tutmask_lg.gif


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 25, 2007)

King Tut's mummy was covered with objects, primarily pieces of jewellery, including necklaces, pendants, rings, amulets, corselets, collars, vultures, serpents and brooches.

Two daggers were also found strategically positioned; both of them had sheaths of gold but only one of the blades was made of gold, the other one was made of iron.

The dagger made of iron is extremely important, because before the iron blade was disovered in King Tut's tomb, many historians insisted that iron had never been used, or even discovered, in Egypt. But now we know differently.

The iron dagger is also important because it is magnetic and could be used as a compass for traveling.

This is just another discovery that proves that historians are not always right and that there is much much more for us to learn about the Ancient Egyptians than many of us might currently think.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 25, 2007)

Here is a picture of the golden dagger that was found buried in King Tut's tomb:

http://touregypt.net/marketplace/tomb/burial/tutdagger_b.jpg


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 26, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> lol. Mating season has begun!
> 
> Not that it matters. I still gotta get this done no matter what.



What exactly do you have to get done? It's not like anybody else understands a fuckin' word you have said.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

onthefence said:


> What exactly do you have to get done? It's not like anybody else understands a fuckin' word you have said.



lol. I pray that that's not true.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

Here is a picture similar to what King Tut's Iron Dagger looks like but without the impressive hilt, ect.:

http://www.paleodirect.com/pgset2/r059.htm


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

Below is a report about and a picture of an Iron plate that was discovered in the Great Pyramid of Ancient Egypt.

This report and picture not only proves that the Ancient Egyptians knew about Iron, but it also proves that they used it.

Aside from King Tut's Iron dagger, this is just more evidence that most of all of the historians were wrong about how sophisticated the Ancient Egyptians really were.


Here is the report with the picture included:

http://www.catchpenny.org/iron.html


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

Here is another site that is deticated to the fact that the Ancient Egyptians knew of the existence of Iron. It gets into facts about iron in other parts of history as well:

http://www.gizagrid.com/body_egyptian_iron.html


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

Also buried in King Tut's tomb was a special Scarab Brooch that contains important symbolic significance. 

Upon closer inspection of the brooch, it was found that there are three parallel bars at the tail end of the scarab that are not proportionately spaced. The distance from the outer edges of the bars to the centre line of the crescent disc measures the same, but the distance between the inside edge of each bar varies to the centre line.

Despite this, the brooch itself appears to contain symmetry between it's left and right halves, and indeed, there are 183 inlaid stones in each wing, 366 in total, representing the number of days in a leap year. But closer inspection of the stones reveals that symmetry does not exist between the arrays of stones in opposing wings.

The next point to note is the number of stones contained between gaps in the feathers on each wing. The total number of stones now amounts to 397.

The disc of the brooch contains 360 degrees. The total number of inlaid stones amounts to 397; 397-360 = 37, and 37 is an astronomically significant number because it is the number of the duration, in days, of one revolution of the Sun's polar magnetic field. Here, the 360-degree movement of the Earth around the Sun is emphasised, together with the revolutionary period of the Sun's polar cap. 

It is the movement of the cap, in relation to the movement of the Sun's equator, which causes radiation of the Solar wind, which impinges on the Earth.

The encoding of these numbers into the Scarab Brooch shows us again how smart these people were and how advanced was the level of mathematics that the Ancient Egyptians had actually reached.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

The information contained within the Ancient Scarab Brooch allows access to another layer of information that is encoded into it. 

The design of the Scarab Brooch was made to incorporate a schematic of the electromagnetic interaction that takes place between the Sun and the Earth. The magnetic fields of the Sun and Earth are clear, as is the bow shock that results from the interaction of the solar wind on the Earth's magnetic shield, the magnetosphere. 

The Scarab Brooch contains several layers of information:

*1.* The disc, the scarab, and the crescent together form the hieroglyphic name Neb-khepru-Re - Tutankhamun.

*2.* The distance between the rays and the centre line of the crescent is symmetrical. However, the distance between the inside rays is asymmetrical. This tells the observer that the outside wings of the scarab are symmetrical but that the number of stones inside each wing is asymmetrical.

*3.* 183 feather stones are inlaid in each wing, which shows symmetry; together these total 366, the number of days in a leap year. However, each group of 183 stones is comprised of different numbers of stones on respective feather rows; 31 stones are distributed asymmetrically in gaps between feathers. The total number of stones therefore is 366+31 which = 397.

*4.* The solar disc and crescent of the brooch appear to contain another level of information; which is that the solar disc, consisting of 360 degrees, and the crescent (representing the polar cap of the Sun, which takes 37 days to rotate) together add up to 397. This allows for a further step in the interpretation of the symbolic significance of the brooch.

*5.* The brooch shows the schematic of the Sun and its magnetic field showering particles, the solar wind, towards the Earth. This bombardment results in compression of the Earth's magnetic field on the Sunward side, which results in a bow shock.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

The Ancient Scarab Brooch from King Tut's tomb tells us many things about their level of knowledge. It also contains the following encoded information:

*1.* The name of Tutankhamun, Neb-khepru-Re.

*2.* The number of stones in the feathers adds up to 366, the number of days in one leap year.

*3.* That the rotational period of the Sun's polar cap amounts to 37 days.

*4.* That magnetic interaction takes place between the Sun and the Earth.

*5.* That the Sun emits particles, the solar wind, which bombard the Earth, causing distortion to the Earth's magnetic shield, the magnetosphere.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 26, 2007)

Here is a picture of the cleverly encoded Scarab Brooch that was discovered in King Tut's tomb:

http://voanews.com/english/images/Pectoral_210.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

The last item that I'm going to post about that was also found in King Tut's tomb was a rare complex beaded necklace. It was found in a jumbled bundle on the floor of the Antechamber together with a cache of finger-rings threaded along a slim tubular roll of fabric. These were thought to have been stolen from the Burial Chamber and discarded by fleeing robbers during their hasty exit from the tomb.

The six-tiered necklace clearly resembles rays of the Sun. The fastening clasp consists of two ingots adorned with solar discs. One of the ingots is missing a solar disc bead. This ingot, like the other, should carry 14 beads, but because one stone is missing, it carries only 13.

Both of those numbers are astronomically significant. 13 is the number of half the rotational duration of the Sun's equatorial magnetic field (measured on the surface of the Sun), and 14 is the number of half the duration of the Sun's magnetic field, measured and viewed from the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

The cache of finger-rings found with the necklace amounts to an invitation to 'count' using our fingers. Counting the beads from the neck edge outwards.

Upon closer inspection of the necklace, one realizes that once again the Ancient Egyptians have encoded information in numbers. Rows 1 and 2 of the necklace both add up to 13. When these two rows are added you get the number 26, which is the number of the rotational period, in days, of the Sun's equatorial magnetic field (as measured on the Sun's surface).

Row 3 adds up to 37 beads, which represents the rotational period of the Sun's polar magnetic field, in days (as measured on the Sun's surface).

Row 4 and 5 again add up to the number 26, the number of the rotational period, in days, of the Sun's equatorial magnetic field (as measured on the Sun's surface).

Row 6 adds up to 110.

The total number of beads on the necklace adds up to 397. When you subtract row 3 (37) from the total number of beads on the necklace (397), you again get the number 360 just like the number from the Scarab Brooch, which again, represents the 360-degree rotation of the solar polar field every 37 days.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

So the significance of the necklace is extremely important, because it contains the following facts which again show proof of the Ancient Egyptian's supreme knowledge of astronomy:

*1.* There are 397 full beads on the necklace, which, like the number 397 in the Scarab Brooch, explain that the rotational duration of the Sun's pole is 37 days (the Sun's pole rotates 360 degrees in 37 days).

*2.* The number of beads in different rows of the necklace reveals that the rotational duration of the Sun's equator is 26 days, and that the rotational duration of the poles is 37 days (as measured on the Sun's surface).

*3.* The number of solar discs on the necklace, featured in the two ingots, contains the rotation rates of the Sun's equator measured on the Sun, which is 26 days, and again from the Earth, which is 28 days.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

The total number of pieces that make up the necklace as a whole is 400. When you multiply the total number of pieces by the number 360 which is encoded into the necklace, you get the number 144,000.

144,000 is significant because again it is the same number that can be found in the legend of the survivors of Atlantis, in Ancient Egyptian culture, in Ancient Mayan culture, and in the Book of Revelation from the Holy Bible.

By multiplying the odd row 6 which contains the number 110, by the number of the row itself, 6, you get the number 666. Which again, refers to the Book of Revelation from the Bible.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

Here is a picture of the famous Beaded Necklace (also known as the "Sun Ray Collar") that was found in King Tut's tomb:

http://www.touregypt.net/museum/collar.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

Both the Scarab Brooch and the Beaded Necklace that were found in King Tut's tomb reveal that the Ancient Egyptians knew about the super-science of the Sun. 

It is also now known that the Ancient Egyptians knew about the fact that the Sun's radiation was causing infertility on the Earth around that period of time that King Tut was in power.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians derived their strength from their faith. It was for them a useful system of belief, because it gave them goals and rules from which they could build up intense experiences. To them, life consisted of service, and all their doings were focused on the life awaiting them after death.

This efficient system ruled their whole life; it gave purpose to it and preserved them from chaotic ideas. Their scientific knowledge about man and the Universe revealed to them the relation between Humanity and its destiny. Through this understanding they had superior insight into the origins of social mechanisms, their feelings, hopes and fears. 

This belief system pushed them in the direction of meaningful goals from which they got their strength as well. They culturally expressed this in their legends and buildings.

It it now up to us to bring back this long lost knowledge. Because then, like them, we will be able to reunite ourselves with our surroundings and the meaning of life.


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## NuclearWinter (Mar 27, 2007)

Part of the Ancient Egyptian's faith, based on the catastrophe cycles, acknowledges the laws of nature. It pushes our Spiritual energy in the direction of meaningful targets, because the belief system is based on the scientific knowledge of man and the Universe and the expected "End" of our World AS WE KNOW IT.

It develops as if it were an integrated interpretation of all earlier developed knowledge related to Humanity and its inescapable destiny. It is useless to connect our dreams and desires to nature without bearing in mind its laws. When we acknowledge the limitations of our civilization and its inevitable end, and again accept a humble place in the Universe, we will start to feel like the progidal son or daughter who finally comes home after years of wandering.

If the aim of Humanity is united with these values and experiences, the problem of the meaning of Life will be solved. Billions of people will then experience the forthcoming catastrophe that will soon shake our Earth to it's foundations as a liberation, and will sacrifice themselves voluntarily to a higher purpose: the continued existence of Humanity, and the rediscovery of an overpowering God image.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

At the same time that the Ancient Egyptian civilization was thriving, another civilization was thriving on what we now know as the South American continent. This civilization was the Ancient Mayan civilization. And they were just as advanced if not more so in some ways than were the Ancient Egyptians of Egypt.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

The Ancient Maya were a Mesoamerican civilization. They had a very advanced writing system in the Americas even prior to European contact. They used sophisticated math systems and had complex and useful cyclical calendars. Spectacular art and monumental architecture were two other notable accomplishments of this civilization.

The Ancient Mayans lived in what is now known as southern Mexico and northern Central America including Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, and El Salvador. Their descendants still live there today, and many of them speak the Mayan languages.

The Ancient Mayans were master architects, building pyramids and even entire cities, many of which are still standing today.

Ancient Mayan pyramids were made of stone. The stone was carved to create a stair-step design. Their cities grew around the pyramids. They consisted of plazas connected together by sacbeob (whiteway) causeways.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in Guatemala:


http://www.photoatlas.com/photo/guatemala_tikal_maya_piramyd.jpg

http://www.adventure-life.com/belize/images/GuatemalaPyramid.jpg

http://www.ixchelschool.com/photos/pix/tikal1.jpg

http://www.survivorfever.net/images11/pyramids/tikal_lost_world_pyramid.jpg

http://www.culturefocus.com/maya-4small.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in Belize:


http://botanbelize.com/extimages/Mayan ruins.jpg

http://espn.go.com/winnercomm/outdoors/flyfishing/i/P2_ff_fea_belize_05.jpg

http://adventuresinbelize.com/images/Adventures/mayan/altunhasm2.jpg

http://www.greenparrot-belize.com/images/temple.jpg

http://www.adventuresinbelize.com/images/Adventures/advmaster/advmst-maya.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in Honduras:


http://www.usdivetravel.com/dive49.jpg

http://www.roatanpearl.com/images/copan-ruins.jpg

http://www.bluedanubeholidays.com/pictures/honduras_mayan.jpg

http://www.greatestcities.com/0095pic/149/CP2149.jpg/honduras03-01.JPG

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/IDX/IDX003/219771.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in El Salvador:


http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t002/T002243A.jpg

http://www.4elsalvador.com/images/Mayan Ruins of Tazumal.jpg <--- Click the refresh button if it doesn't show the first time.

http://www.4elsalvador.com/images/San Andres-Mayan Ruins.jpg <--- Click the refresh button if it doesn't show the first time.

http://www.sailgemini.com/images/CentralAmerica/ElSalvador/Land2A1Pmid.jpg

http://www.sailgemini.com/images/CentralAmerica/ElSalvador/Land2A1Steps.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

At the heart of Ancient Mayan cities existed the largest plazas. They contained governmental and religious buildings, such as the royal acropolis, great pyramid temples, and occasionally ball-courts. Temples and observatories were always constructed so they followed the Mayan interpretation of the orbits of the stars. Outside of this center were less important temples and shrines. At the outskirts lay the homes of the common people.

The Ancient Mayans grew a wide variety of crops, including corn, manioc, and sunflower seeds. These crops were grown in permanent raised fields, terraccing, forest gardens, and managed fallows. There was also harvesting of wild crops. The Mayans ground cacao and mixed it with water to make the first chocolate.

The Ancient Mayans wrote using a series of glyphs (carved figures or characters), which were painted on ceramics, walls, or bark-paper codices (books), carved in wood or stone, or molded in stucco. Each glyph represented a word. Mayans wrote numbers vertically.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

The Ancient Mayans believed that time was cyclical, that is, it goes in circles.

The Ancient Mayans are famous for abandoning their civilization. To this day no one is certain what happened to them.

There are many Ancient Mayan cities still standing today. Some of the most well known ones are: Chichen Itza, Coba, Cop&#225;n, Calakmul, Tikal, and Uxmal. These cites lay forgotten for centuries, until modern-day explorers rediscovered them. Archeological surveys and excavations were conducted (and are still being conducted) on some of these sites, revealing more about Mayan culture. Today, some cities can be visited by tourists.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in the city of Chichen Itza:


http://www.cs.uccs.edu/~chow/pub/master/pjfong/Pictures/Tropical/Chichen&#37;20Itza.jpg

http://www.travelagencies.com/incimage/images/Chichen itza.jpg

http://www.heinz-ria.de/bilder_cd/bildordner/chichen_itza_observatorium.jpg

http://www.maps-of-mexico.com/photos/yucatan/chichen-itza/chichen-itza-picture-of-mexico-1.jpg

http://www.strempfer.de/wolfram/fernweh/images/chichen_itza.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in the ancient city of Coba:


http://www.playa.info/images/alltournative_coba_pyramid.jpg

http://www.seamonkeybusiness.com/images/coba/mayan_ruins_coba_mexico.jpg

http://www.happen.net/travel/img/mexico/coba.jpg

http://www.akumal-luxury-villas.com/main/daytrips/ruins/coba.jpg

http://www.mexicancaribbeannet.com/assets/images/coba4.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in the ancient city of Copan:


http://www.enjoyhonduras.com/images/copan01.jpg

http://pictures.exploitz.com/Copan-...to-de-Copan--_srcgpx10001x14459x10845925e.jpg

http://www.roatanonline.com/honduras/images_copan/copan10.jpg

http://www.delange.org/Copan1/Dsc00116.jpg

http://www.travel-to-honduras.com/images/copan.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in the ancient city of Calakmul:


http://www.cactusrock.com/images/Calakmul.jpg

http://www.andalemexico.com/photos/calakmul_04.jpg

http://www.farhorizon.com/ctrlamer/hidden_maya_citites/calakmul.jpg

http://www.campeche.ca/images/view_from_the_top_calakmul.jpg

http://www.wcrosby.com/2003mexico/calakmul1a.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in the ancient city of Tikal:


http://www.adventure-life.com/belize/images/TikalRuins.jpg

http://www.slickrock.com/images/tikal.jpg

http://www.adventuresinbelize.com/images/Adventures/mayan/tikal1.jpg

http://infolab.stanford.edu/~widom/photos/tikal.jpg

http://www.ankiewicz.com/photos/trips/guatemala/temple.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of Ancient Mayan ruins in the ancient city of Uxmal:


http://wild-net.com.au/mexico/assets/images/uxmal_ruins4_280.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070314/i/r1125281119.jpg <--- Look who's in this one =) 

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070313/i/r4118048662.jpg <---- lol Here he is again.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070313/i/r554968085.jpg <--- Boy he sure looks happy doesn't he? Wish he was that excited about taking care of our own country!

http://www.aerosaab.com/images/ideas/uxmal_01.jpg


*PS *- Don't let the pictures with curious George in them take away the beauty of the ruins in the backround.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 2, 2007)

By the way I just have to say that I have been to some of these Ancient Mayan structures myself and standing on them I can tell you that there aren't many things in this World that give you that much awe when you are amongst them.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

The Ancient Mayans, just like the Ancient Egyptians, have been said to be descendants of Atlantis as well.

However there is no direct evidence for this like there is with the Ancient Egyptians. It can be proven, by the Ancient Egyptian's own hieroglyphs that they were descendants of Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis). It can also be proven that the Ancient Egyptians followed an exact path after they landed off the coast of Morocco to where they eventually ended up in what we now know as Egypt.

However, I have been unable to find evidence so far that can directly link the Ancient Mayan's to Atlantis. Other than their advanced Mathematics of course. But it is also said that the Ancient Egyptians may have traded with the Ancient Mayans because the Egyptians were aware of iron which would allow them to travel far distances if need be.

No matter where the Ancient Mayans originated from though, it can certainly be said that they were a special civilization of some of the highest science and intelligence that this planet has ever known.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

The Ancient Mayans kept extremely detailed astronomical records and they followed the cycles of the planets and stars as they travel around in their orbits. We are currently in the 4th cycle recorded by the Maya. It started in 3114 B.C. and lasts for 5126 years until 2012. 

With the end of the 4th cycle comes... the beginning of the 5th cycle. The Maya believe that in the 5th cycle the ancient wisdom of the Maya will be rediscovered by the world and it will be a new dawn for mankind!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

In the coming years we face another apocalyptic test, as time leads us up to the classic Maya millennium, on December 21, 2012 (based on our Western Gregorian calendar). That's when the Maya calendar will turn over to all zeros &#8212; 13.0.0.0.0 by the long count. 

The Ancient Mayan use of the zero by at least A.D. 200 is one of their key claims to fame, since the zero was not introduced to the West until the insights of Aryabhata, a fifth-century Indian mathematician, reached Europe.

The Maya millennium comes 5,126 years after the creation, which, by their reckoning, occurred precisely on August 11, 3114 B.C.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

Central to the Ancient Mayan's philosophy was a belief in the cyclical nature of time and an awesome fear that one day, possibly sooner rather than later, our World would come to an end. It seems that they believed that the Sun would one day no longer send its life force, thereby bringing to an end the fifth and last age of man.

They counted the days according to two calendars, one a "vague" year of 365 days and the other a shorter cycle of 260 days. Every day had two names, one according to each calendar so that the same combination of names would not recur for 52 years. When one of these 52 year time periods came to an end they would leave their cities and, going up into the surrounding hills, anxiously watch the stars. 

The sign they were looking for was the Pleiades star-group, symbolising for them a cosmic snake's rattle, crossing the southern meridian at midnight. This, they believed, meant that the heavens had not stopped turning and the Sun would rise again. They celebrated the birth of this new 'century' with rejoicing and the lighting of fires, symbolising the rebirth of the world.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

Most of the Native Meso-American documents were destroyed in the early years of the Spanish occupation of South America but a few priceless books and relics did survive the destruction, either having been hidden by the Indians or exported back to Europe as presents for the King. The most important of these was what is now called the Dresden Codex, named after the town in whose library it was lodged. This strange book, inscribed with unknown hieroglyphs, was written by Maya Indians who once ruled over much of Central America, the ruins of their once grand civilization littering the jungle.

In 1880 a brilliant, German scholar, who was working as a librarian in Dresden, turned his attention to this codex. By a process of extraordinary detective work he cracked the code of the Mayan calendar making it possible for other scholars and explorers to translate the many dated inscriptions to be found on buildings, stelae and other ancient Mayan artefacts. 

The scholar also discovered that the Dresden Codex itself was concerned with astronomy providing detailed tables of lunar eclipses and other phenomenon. These were so accurate that they put our own calendar to shame. He also found evidence for a curious "magic number"- 1,366,560 days, which could be factorised in a number of ways and which harmonised the cycles of Venus and Mars with two "yearly" cycles also used by the Maya: the sacred tzolkin of 260 days and the Haab of 365 days. However, he also found that they had another system of counting the days relative to a starting date, called the Birth of Venus and now known to be 13 August 3114 BC.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

One of the Ancient Mayan's calendars was divided into "months" or uinals of twenty days, "years" or tuns of 360 days and longer periods of 7200 days, the katun and 144,000 days, the baktun. The number 13 was magically important to them and they believed that, starting from the Birth of Venus, after 13 of these longest periods, or baktuns, the World as we know it would come to an end. Working from their start date this Mayan Prophecy points to a date in our own time, December 21, 2012.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

In 1986 the scientist/engineer Maurice Cotterell put forward a revolutionary theory concerning astrology and sun cycles. He had for some years suspected that the sun's variable magnetic field had consequences for life on earth. The sun has a complex field which loops and twists itself into knots. It has long been suspected that these loops give rise to sunspots, which are dark blemishes on the sun's skin. 

The number, size and location of sunspots are constantly changing and as a former Radio Officer, Cotterell was well aware that they have profound effects upon the earth's magnetic envelope, the magnetosphere. Whilst working as Head of Electrical and Communications Engineering (Estates) at Cranfield Institute of Technology, he devised a program that would compute the relationship between the sun's magnetic field and the Earth. 

As expected his model predicted that there should be a sunspot cycle of roughly eleven and a half years, closely corresponding to what has been observed over several centuries. However, he also found graphic evidence for longer cycles including a period of 1,366,040 days. His work took a new turn when he read about the Mayan super number from the Dresden Codex: 1,366,560 days. This was exactly two 260 day cycles larger than his theoretical sunspot period. He therefore proposed that the two were related.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

As Maurice Cotterell's earlier work on what he called Astrogenetics indicated that human fertility was dependent on the presence of sunspots, he now had evidence that the Mayan calendar was not arbitrary but was based on a knowledge of the effects of sunspots. This explained the near obsession they had for long cycles of time and their belief in the rise and fall of four previous ages of man. 

Travelling in Mexico, Cotterell extended his ideas and gave them a public airing on television. After giving a lecture at the Voluntary Cultural society, he was awarded a medal by the wife of the President. 

By now his work included some very esoteric investigations into the 'Lid of Palenque', a mysterious sarcophagus cover made famous in the 1960s by Eric von Däniken, who believed it showed the picture of an ancient astronaut. Cotterell now identified the lid as a graphic representation of Mayan philosophy and as containing many hidden messages and codes.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

In 1994 Maurice Cotterell met up with Adrian Gilbert, who had recently co-authored a book on the Egyptian pyramids called The Orion Mystery. Gilbert too went to Mexico and was fascinated to discover the extent to which the ancient Mexicans venerated the rattlesnake. 

He discovered some curious cultural similarities between the early Maya and the ancient Egyptians. Whereas the Egyptians studied the movements of the Hyades, Orion and its companion star Sirius, the Maya were more interested in the nearby Pleiades star-cluster. 

They viewed it as the warning rattle of a great cosmic serpent, which seems to have corresponded to the ecliptic. The head of this serpent was the sun and they believed that it was the source of all life on earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

To learn more about Maurice Cotterell go to http://www.mauricecotterell.com/.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

The Maya, like the Aztecs, believed that there had been four ages prior to our own. Many scientists have been able to relate the first of these to the lost continent of Atlantis and have investigated certain prophecies relating to this ancient civilization. 

It seems that the serpent religion of the Mayans, which the early Spanish conquistadors attempted to eradicate, may well owe its origins to survivors of this lost race of Atlantis, some of whom went to Egypt and some possibly to Central America.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 3, 2007)

The Mayan calendar points to December 21, 2012 as being the end of our present age. Changes around that time to the Sun's magnetic field could have catastrophic consequences for us all. Perhaps we are already witnessing the beginnings of this change with the desertification of more and more land. This seems to have happened in a more localised way at the time of another Sun spot minima, which may have lead to the collapse of the Mayan civilization. Their jungle cities may be a warning to us all.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

In some of Edgar Cayce's books, edited by his son Hugh Lynn Cayce, based on the readings that Cayce gave regarding Atlantis, he specifically states that the Atlanteans left thier island kingdom in boats and settled in both Egypt and South america. 

The Aztecs, which he claims are also descendants of the Atlanteans, are supposed to be the third known group and some of the indians of North America are also supposed to be descended from some of the smaller Atlantean groups which sailed off prior to the sinking of the final vestiges of what had been a huge continent stretching from the azores in the east to the islands of the caribbean in the South Central Atlantic and as far north as the Central Atlantic. The southern limits were supposedly off the brazilian mainland.

In the mid-1500s, Spanish expeditions landed on the azores and the few inhabitants provided them with stone tablets with stange markings indicative of some written language. when the islanders were unable to show anything about what was written thereon, the spaniards immediately destroyed the tablets and then the few inhabitants which populated the area. 

Unfortunately the Spanish and their missionaries destroyed most all of which may have been useful in determining what they knew and exactly where the Atlanteans went once they left their sunken land on their way to South America.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

I personally believe that the Mayans originated from Atlantis as well. 

The only thing I wrestle with is the fact that the Egyptians and the Mayans may have been too different races. Or were they? Queen Cleopatra certainly looks alot like a Mayan Indian at least in her artistic depictions including movies, paintings, ect. In fact....could it be that the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans were of the same race? Both brown skinned? Just living in different areas? 

If that is the case, than yes, they would both most likely have originated from the same source - Atlantis.

Here are some artistic depictions of Queen Cleopatra. You guys be the judge:

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/all.htm <----- Click here to see the sculptures and paintings.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

To learn more about Edgar Cayce (The Sleeping Prophet) and his readings on the lost continent of Atlantis go to http://www.edgarcayce.org/


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

The Dresden Codex of the Ancient Mayans talks about the Sunspot cycle (about which our modern day astronomers know very little). 

At a certain moment, when the Sun's magnetism reaches a crucial point, a colossal catastrophe will destroy much of the Earth. 

This event correlates with the number 666 of the Bible. Besides being the number related to the "Anti-Christ", it has also been associated with the "Apocalypse" or the "End of the World" as we know it.

But for the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans, the number 666 represented an aberration in the Sunspot Cycle, which lays the foundation for the forthcoming Pole-Shift.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

Graham Hancock talks about the number 66.6 in his book _Fingerprints of the Gods_. In it he mentions a very special event that takes place in Mexico each equinox of March 20th, and September 22nd. On those days, a strange phenomenon takes place, which is that for exactly 6.66 seconds a shadow passes over the west face of the Pyramid of the Sun in Mexico.

This event has taken place year-in and year-out since the beginning of the construction of the pyramid. One of the many functions of the Pyramid of the Sun was to communicate the encoded messages of the wisdom cult that had ruled over the Earth for thousands of years. 

There is an undeniable connection between the Solar year, as shown by the equinoxes, and the number 0.666.

Many people will become amazed at the intwewoven knowledge of science, construction engineering, and culture of these magnificent Ancient Mayans.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

The Ancient Mayan's intelligence allowed them to calculate the coming Pole-Shift.

By indicating that a shadow appeared for 66.6 seconds, a phenomenon that takes place only twice a year, the Ancient Mayan's were telling us that this number relates to a solar year. Depending on the calendar that they used this took 360, 365 or 365.25 days.

Not only could the Ancient Mayans construct superior buildings, but also their underlying knowledge to build them was amazing! A purely geometrical creation, connected to the passage of time, dominated by the Number and the memory of heroic times. Combinations of surprisingly strange angles were joined together to create eye-boggling masterpieces. 

The magic of esoteric figures, interwoven with thousands of artistically cut pieces of rock, as if it had not been any effort at all for the Ancient Mayans to do this. It was incredibly imaginative.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

Judging from their high level of mathematics, it seems pretty obvious that their numbers were part of the legacy of the lost civilization of Atlantis. Without any doubt the Ancient Mayans were one of the most facile and inspired followers of the Atlantean type of science.

You can find everywhere their continuous obsession with the subject of time. It controlled all their enterprise and it doesn't have any equal in the history of Humankind. By breaking their codes, which accurately describe time, many Mayan mysteries and bottlenecks of their religion can be solved.

Awesome riddles and awkward manifestations of the Ancient Mayan's bonds to time will have a logical explanation with the help of modern scientific thinking.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Mayan's Pyramid of the Sun in Mexico:


http://www.glassmountains.com/gallery/mx90_pyramid_sun.jpg

http://whgbetc.com/mind/pyramid-sun2.jpg

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/latinamerica/images/pyramid_of_the_sun.jpg

http://shortwork.net/travels/df/i00-31-teotihuacan-pyramid-of-moon-sun-avenue-of-dead-3.jpg

http://www.uni-sw.gwdg.de/~panders/Images/Mexiko/Teotihuacan_PyramidOfTheSun.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

In Mexico we find extensive evidence of the use of the number 72. The relevant resulting numbers turn up abundantly in the Mayan Calendars: 1 katun = 7,200 days; 1 tun = 720 days; 5 baktuns = 720,000 days.

You can come across the number 72 almost everywhere in the Ancient Mayan civilization. This is most likely because of the fact that in the disaster of 21,312 BC, Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis) had shifted 72 degrees in the Zodiac.

The Maya had processed the number 72 in their solar year. The final decisive factor is that when you multiply a Mayan solar year of 365 days by 0.666, the final outcome is 72!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 4, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Mayan's Pyramid of the Moon in Mexico:


http://www.glassmountains.com/gallery/mx90_pyramid_moon.jpg

http://whgbetc.com/mind/pyramid-teotihuacan-moon.jpg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041202/041202_pyramid_moon_hmed.hlarge.jpg

http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/ARTH200/Women/kahlo/pyramid_moon.jpg

http://www.dragonstone-uk.com/images/Moon&#37;20Pyramid -Teotihuacan.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 5, 2007)

Venus was sacred for the Ancient Mayans. Generations of researchers have been busy probing the question of why the Maya were so obsessed with this planet. Once you know how to unveil their motives, then you stumble upon amazing answers: the numbers of Venus are involved in catastrophes that purified Earth regularly, and in the ones which will do it again.

Among the Ancient Mayans everything was focused on Venus. They kept a sharp eye on our sister planet, noted everything down, and built around it a complex time calculation system that was used for thousands of years.

Ancient Mayan documents showed that other planetary movements could be calculated on the basis of the movement of Venus. Furthermore, it contains moon tables used to calculate possible Solar eclipses, which have been found to be accurate to within just a minimal deviation in relation to the actual values.

The Dresden Codex of the Ancient Mayans also coincided with the extremely important Tzolkin, the cycle of 260 days, which was greatly respected by the Mayans. It was also discovered that they had correct numbers at their disposal, with which they could adjust the first table and reduce the margin of error to one day in 4,500 years.

This also proves that the Ancient Mayans knew alot more than many modern day historians and researchers think.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 5, 2007)

In the Ancient Mayan's Dresden Codex 5 pages were devoted to the calculations on Venus. The numbers and multiples of Venus were of great interest to the priests. The numbers were also part of an immeasurable inheritance. They are the legacy of the lost civilization of Atlantis, destroyed by a catastrophic disaster - an inheritance of an old, star-gazing people, kept alive, cultivated and enriched by their descendants.

And this legacy of knowledge points directly to Atlantis. The pattern of thought means fresh air in the search for the Atlantean civilization. Without any doubt the numbers revealed are leading us to a disaster that meant the end of Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis). It predicted Armageddon, the end of times for their original homeland.

Such a downfall asks for the largest scientific and mathematical connections. And these bright Ancients have provided them all for us.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 5, 2007)

Venus was everything for the Ancient Mayans. They believed, just like the Egyptians, that at a certain time around 2012, a super-catastrophe will take place.

In the Maya Codices the number 365 is crucial. This is because the Ancient Mayans knew the exact period of the Earth's orbit around the Sun: 365.2422 days.

If you multiply the amount of years between the previous two Pole-Shifts by 365 you get: 11,520 X 365 = 4,204,800 days.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 5, 2007)

The numbers 7,200 and 7,300 were also extremely important Mayan code numbers when multiplied by a holy Mayan year of 260 days. But there is more. The deciphering of the Ancient Mayan calendars will show that the number 260 can be found on the basis of the precise synodic orbit of Venus. The same holds for an elementary unit of the Sunspot cycle. Every 260 days the polar field completes 7.027027 revolutions, a code number that leads to the unveiling of some of the greatest Mayan secrets.

The preceding evidence shows the resourcefulness of the Ancient Mayans. Their calendar of 260 days is based on a superior combination of advanced astronomy and mathematics. In other words, their calendar was not only a religious instrument, but at the same time it was a mathematical and technological miracle.

Without a doubt, the deciphering of the codes shows 260 as the main code number of the present cycle. In this way the Ancient Mayans interwove important messages into a simple and understandable system to make clear to us that Venus, in its previous cycle, was responsible for the main code. But right now we are in a different cycle that belongs to a different main code.

Due to the fact that it is the magnetic field of the Sun that decides when the Earth's magnetic field will swing over, they have interwoven the new value in their calendar that ends on December 21, 2012.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 5, 2007)

On August 11, 3114 BC, the countdown of the Maya to December 21, 2012 began. 

As you already know, Venus made a planetary retrograde loop above Orion during the year of the previous crash and will do so again sometime leading up to the end of the Mayan calendar. That is why they interwove Venus into their calculations in just about every possible way.

And again, all these Celestial combinations are representative of a frame of mind that was different than many of ours today. As Albert Slosman pointed out, the translations of these combinations represent geometrical figures and movements in the sky and of the moving lights in relation to the fixed points that they concentrated on. 

The combinations for the Ancients depended upon the laws that create the Universe, because it is those laws that create the Universe which also bring about the cosmic harmony of the Universe as well.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 6, 2007)

In Chichen Itza, there is a structure that was built by the Ancient Mayans as a rectangular platform with two floors having a cylinder shaped tower erected on top of them. The tower has three windows, from which you can observe the southernmost and the northernmost setting points of Venus. Furthermore, one of the diagonals of the platform points in the direction of the Sunset in the dead of winter. Another diagonal points in the direction of the Sunrise in the height of summer.

More than 700 meters of northeast of that structure is another structure that the Ancient Mayans built called the pyramid of Kukulcan with its 91 steps. On the other side of it's left staircase can be seen a wave-like shadow whose movement would have given the illusion that it was an enormous snake. On the ground, at the beginning of the staircase, there is a snake's head.

 The pyramid of Kukulcan has four flights of stairs. Each of these flights of stairs points to the directions of the wind, and each of the four flights has 91 steps. Four times 91 amounts to 364; add the common last step and you get 365, the solar year of the Maya.

On the evening of the equinox, the pyramid of Kukulcan guarantees an impressive show. Esoteric triangular patterns of light and shadow appear in a dramatic manner, creating the illusion of an enormous snake slithering over the land and then up the pyramid. 

When you begin to think like these ancient peoples, you will notice that their secrets hold the same curious sway over you as it did over them. Behind these secrets lies the compelling strength that defines the very structure of the temples and pyramids that they built.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 6, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Mayan's pyramid of Kukulcan:


http://www.jmatson.com/trip to canc.../75-foot-pyramid,-the-temple-of-kukulcan4.jpg

http://www.jmatson.com/trip to canc.../75-foot-pyramid,-the-temple-of-kukulcan8.jpg

http://www.jmatson.com/trip to canc.../75-foot-pyramid,-the-temple-of-kukulcan7.jpg

http://www.magickriver.net/Kukulcan~web.jpg

http://www.joenjulie.com/julie/Cancunpictures/castillo_kukulcan.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 6, 2007)

Of course there is much more behind all this. If you take the number that the Maya used to indicate the Earth's orbit around the Sun: 365.242 days, you will find a crucial fact that modern science agrees with. The value of the Earth's orbit around the Sun is 365.2422 days.

This discovery is excellent proof of the advanced science that this ancient civilization possessed. Why? Because they knew the orbit of the Earth around the Sun as we know it today!


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 6, 2007)

The Ancient Mayans inherited their numbers from their ancestors and used them in their own calculations. Venus, as the calculations show, was the key to almost all of their mysteries.

With their calculations comes a system behind the pattern of thinking of these ancient giants of mathematics and science. When focusing on their way of thought, a magic World of numbers opens, full of unexpected but undeniable and strange similarities. 

With a feeling of awe, many will contemplate the revelation of the Ancient Mayan's codes as something almost supernatural. And it actually is. To make such calculations, you need genius scientists at your disposal. 

The Ancient Mayans observed the cosmos with curiosity, and distilled laws, which were poured into specific numbers that formed a summary of a whole series of discoveries. If you don't know this, you will be dazzled at the sight of the Dresden Codex. The quantity of numbers and possibilities of combinations is huge.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 6, 2007)

The knowledge of the Ancient Mayans brings us back to the legend of Atlantis. As has been already proved, it contains some key numbers that were designed in such a way that they allowed entry into the "science" of the polar catastrophes that tormented the Earth regularly. It concerns an interwoven pattern of religion and advanced thinking. 

The downfall of Atlantis, the shifting of the Zodiac, and the Sunspot cycle can all be correlated. 

When speaking about the Ancient Mayans, we are speaking about highly civilized people who lived in a very distant past, and whose legends and numbers date back at least tens of thousands of years. This means that you have to reach unavoidable conclusions, the most part of which is that the catastrophe of 21,312 B.C. really did happen.

This will be shocking for many people, and yet the Ancient Mayan's way of calculation is so exact that we can no longer disregard their coded messages. Niether can we deny the existence of a connection between Venus and the period between the previous Pole-Shifts.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 6, 2007)

Anyone who still dares to say that this evidence is not incontestable doesn't understand the Ancient Mayan's way of thinking. Numbers were the most important starting point in their World of thought, because they are Universally accepted. 

In fact, today we apply an identicle mode of calculation as the Ancient Mayans. Every four years we adjust our calendar with an extra day. This adjustment is a bit too gross. After 128 years we do not count an extra day and therefore there is no leap year!

If you think about it carefully, you will easily understand their way of calculation. They used it in all of their operations. In the case of a leap year it contains one day. When you accumulate this over thousands of years, you get a large number of extra days. After a certain period they got, for instance, so many thousands or millions of days. To match this with other calendars they either subtracted "X" number of days, or they counted up "Y" number of days, until a similarity was reached. 

In the ancient's time period a great many numbers correlated with Venus. That is why both the Ancient Mayans and the Ancient Egyptians kept honoring Venus, and why it is possible to reveal so many of their codes because of it.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 6, 2007)

With the help of Venus, it can be proved that the Ancient Mayans knew incredibly accurate astronomical numbers. This is Earth-shattering, because their precision back then was actually more accurate in many ways than ours is today.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 7, 2007)

According to the Ancient Mayans, the first era was ended by water in which all but a few chosen beings had perished. The Mayans called this _Apachiohualizltli_, or "Sun of Flood". Some people claim that only one couple could escape death from this event, which is most likely where the story of Noah from the Bible came from. Others say that seven couples were able to save their lives and that they re-populated the Earth after the continual rainfalls.

Next the Ancient Mayans say that in the era of the Sun of Earthquake the Earth fell to pieces when it cracked in many places. Many existing mountains crumbled while other mountain chains appeared out of the blue. 

The Ancient Mayans have said that a horrifying, otherworldly storm put an end to the ruling era of the Sun of Hurricane. 

And finally, after a flood of blood and fire caused by the Sun of Fire, the Mayan state that the survivors starved.

In those four eras, fire, earthquakes, hurricanes, and all-devouring inundation covered our planet and extinguished much of our Human race. The most important, common element of these global calamities was that the Sun was responsible for the destruction of the Earth. The Ancient Mayans were convinced of this, and therefore they based their faith on it.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 7, 2007)

*In comparison of the Ancient Mayan's tradition about the four different Suns and the destruction that each one caused, there is another book called the Holy Book Of The Buddhists that also speaks of "World cycles":*

"When a long period had passed since the rains stopped, a second Sun appeared. In the meantime the World was wrapped in darkness." 


Their usage of the Sun as an indication for successive epochs that collapsed in an overall destruction makes it much clearer for us. Without any doubt they were telling us that an exterior change of our light source put an end to every cycle.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 7, 2007)

Thanks to the Ancient Mayans we now have mathematical proof at hand for the above conclusions. The Ancient Mayans knew the formula of the Sunspot cycle. With the help of their theories, they could make calculations about the behavior of our Sun. Long before the actual event, they knew if intense solar activity was going to occur. From the expected intensity, they could calculate whether it would have any consequences for the Earth.

The Ancient Mayan's hang up with numbers was quite obsessive, because they knew that many secrets of nature could be explained by using them. It was their conviction that when the original numbers of the events were rightly understood, it would be possible to calculate successfully the moment that these events would occur.

The Ancient Mayans were thinking rationally in their own manner, and they converted almost everything into what became Holy Numbers. In their thought processes the same numbers explained many things for them. They knew the exact values, but they hid them behind a whole series of codes. From then on, with the help of their Holy Numbers, the Ancient Mayans could retrieve the right numbers. 

For these reasons we have to consider their calculations and old legends to be exact. They knew things that we still do not know. Their calculated date for the End of the Fifth Sun is undeniably correct, however incredible their science may appear to us. Therefore, we should take their prophecies about the "End of Times" very seriously.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 7, 2007)

The crown jewel of the Ancient Mayan codes was their so-called "long calendar round", or "Long Count." It started thousands of years ago in the "Age of the Gods" on 4 Ahau 8 Cumkun: August 11th, 3114 BC. It will end after 1,872,000 days around the same time that much of the World will be destroyed. The Ancient Mayans say that this will happen in the year of Katun Ahau 13: or sometime around December 21, 2012 AD.

This encoded system demonstrates their ability to calculate long cycles, and it also gives them the ability to predict cycles of destruction and the creation that follows. We already know that the Ancient Mayans had incredible accuracy and that their countdown is a coded system. 

According to the Ancient Mayans code system, a Sunspot cycle equals 68,328 days; furthermore, a Mayan solar year lasts for 365 days. When you calculate the period of a Sunspot cycle using these data, it amounts to 187.2 years. And a multiple of that number - 1,872,000 - leads us to the countdown to the next Pole-Shift sometime around 2012 AD.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 7, 2007)

The "End" will come like a thief in the night, at the height of a great Sunspot cycle. 

An easy way to imagine the Ancient Mayan's "Holy Count" is to envision a calculator that is counting up intertwined magnetic forces, again and again. And just when the crucial point has been reached, the calculator will destroy itself in one gigantic flash.

By now, the colossal forces that will put an end to our civilization have already accumulated in the Sun. In the remaining years only a fraction of the forces already accumulated will be added.

The Aztecs, who supplanted the Ancient Mayans, were also aware of the impending destruction of the Earth. But it was the Ancient Mayans, who had calculated that the end date would occur in the Fifth Sun era. Their whole culture and all of their Holy Numbers revolved around this event. Using their Sunspot cycle theory, they calculated the moment an intense outburst of energy from the Sun would, all at once, finish the ruling civilizations of the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 9, 2007)

The discovery of the link between Venus and the previous Pole Shifts of the Earth explains a lot of things. It logically confirms findings related to the Egyptian Zodiac, the Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Dresden Codex of the Ancient Mayans.

The Complexity of the Ancient Mayan's calendars can also be derived from it. Those that created the advanced Mayan calendars had discovered a means to integrate the movement of Venus with the orbits of other planets. From these calculations it appeared that the Ancient Mayans were aware of the fact that Venus required an average of 583.92 days to reappear in the same place.  

Aside from those facts, it was also discovered that the Ancient Mayans had interwoven the Holy Mayan year - the Tzolkin of 260 days - with Venus's movement.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 9, 2007)

There are many things to be found in the decoding of the traces left by the cult of the long-lost civilization of Atlantis. The Ancient Mayans had based themselves on Holy Numbers that they used again and again in their way of calculation. For thousands of years the secret science behind this was passed on to future generations. Thereafter it got lost for long dark centuries.

Because of the Ancient Mayan's remarkable method of working, it was possible to revive the traces of this advanced civilization, wrapped in a shroud of prophecies, of esoteric and age-old codes.

One has to turn to the way of reasoning of these ancient pyramid builders. Many of their actions were, after all, based on the Sunspot cycle. The Ancient Mayans were so incredibly clever that in some ways they raised their message to a higher level than the civilization that gave them this knowledge! With it they inherited the memories of terrifying earthquakes, falling stars, a bright burning Sun and a destructive tidal wave. 

The Ancient Mayans interwove all of this into their magical buildings with the urgent message: "It has happened before and it will happen again."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 9, 2007)

*In Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision we read that the old annals say:* 

_"In this age everything was destroyed by a rain of fire coming from the sky and the surging of lava."_


The Ancient Mayans knew that the Sun had already proceeded far in its cycle and that it was almost dead. They painted pictures of it with features like a wrinkled face by age and its tongue sticking out eagerly in its hunger.

The number 666 played a large part in all of this. Through the deviation of 666 the cycles of the Sun are shifting. A total magnetic field reversal is awaiting us. When will this catastrophe take place? At the exact moment when all deviating cycles have pushed the Sun's magnetic fields to its maximum. According to the Ancient Mayans this corresponds with a time leading up to December 21, 2012 AD.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 10, 2007)

The Ancient Mayan's temples and pyramids are not products of superstitious minds, but are instead designs of extremely skillful architecture. And through this basic principle it is possible to find the connection with the number 666. 

As stated before, in Teotihuacan stands a huge building, which is the Pyramid of the Sun. This pyramid contains a direct allusion to the Sun and its hidden deviating cycles. During both the vernal and autumnal equinoctial points, exactly at noon, the south-to-north shining Sun causes the phenomenon of a completely straight shadow that gradually disappears over one of the lower floors of the west face. The passage of the shadow into complete light takes exactly 66.6 seconds! This provides us with an undeniable relation with the number 666.

The Ancient Mayans used our time chronology of 86,400 seconds. This enabled them to assimilate the number 666 in their design. To carry out this masterly example of scientific thinking, you need a large amount of astronomical and geodetic knowledge. 

Once more the visionary masters of ancient science baffle us. It is an example of the powerful and permanent legend from primeval times, a memory of a global disaster.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 10, 2007)

This architectural vision survived for thousands of years, as well as the mathematical codes hiding in it. The unimaginably precise mathematical relation between the Sun and its deviating cycles is a good example of that. This re-discovery of data from the dawn of our civilization should make us humble. 

In those times pioneers knew and performed certain things of which we still don't have any knowledge. But their scientific findings are now forcing themselves upon us like echoes in our dreams. And our dreams are leading up to a non-stop approach to a World Disaster. After a certain number of deviating cycles, the most catastrophic disaster in the history of mankind will take place.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 10, 2007)

These results show us where the Ancient Mayans got their essential numbers. They are based on approximate "Holy Numbers." Those who carefully study the decoding of the Dresden Codex will quickly recognize the importance of the values found. 

This particular way of calculation forms the essence of the Ancient Mayan's thinking pattern. They liked to play with numbers, and preferably always with the same ones. On this basis they could get certain outcomes, which approximated reality very closely. After a couple of other calculations they could come closer and closer to the real value, until they achieved the most incredible accuracy.

A phenomenal example of that is the period of a solar year, which they accurately calculated to a countless amount of figures after the decimal point. Of course a lot more codes are hiding in their way of calculation.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 10, 2007)

By incorporating the number 666 in their buildings, the Ancient Mayans taught us the principle that would destroy our civilization. Besides this, the Ancient Mayans used other numbers too. They created a masterpiece that is based on their inheritance from a superior civilization that once ruled the Earth. With the help of their incredibly accurate calculations, the earlier high priests could predict the following: 


*1.* The Universe will fall apart in great disorder and will make the planets change their course.

*2.* After the coming Pole-Shift, the Sun, the Moon and the stars will start moving in opposite directions.

*3.* The Earth will shake and tremble and the waters in its bosom will rise with great violence and will destroy the existing civilizations (OURS).


The Ancient Egyptians gave us this same message. And it is up to us whether we are going to deny these age-old truths, or treat them with respect.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 10, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Mayan's Temple of Palenque:


http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Mexico/mexico02/Palenque/TemploInscripciones3.jpg

http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Mexico/mexico02/Palenque/TemploInscripciones4.jpg

http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/4/4b/Palenque_temple_of_the_inscriptions.jpg

http://www.mexperience.com/guide/archaeology/arch_images/palenque_inscripciones.jpg

http://sacredsites.com/americas/mexico/images/Palenque_02_H.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 10, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Mayan's Tower of Palenque:


http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/ldumois/maya/maya33s.jpg

http://www.downtheroad.org/Photo/8TabChiapas/THUMBS/3Palanque/DC00023_small.JPG

http://www.barefootsworld.net/images/mxpalenque4.jpg

http://www.vitruvio.ch/arcgallery/vitruvio/messico/palenque_09.jpg

http://www.trekshare.com/members/adamlgospodarek/images/jimage40380.jpg


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 10, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Ancient Mayan's Palace of Palenque as a whole:


http://www.thresholds.net/palenque/palenque5.jpg

http://www.humboldt.edu/~storage/Clark/Images/chiapas_PALENQUE-TOWER.jpg

http://historylink102.com/meso-pic/palenque-palace.jpg

http://www.anthroarcheart.org/grfx/c94f.JPG

http://www.xplosiv.com/photo/mexico/tom50.JPG


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 11, 2007)

Besides being excellent calculators, the Ancient Mayans were a form of psychologists of the highest rank. All of their buildings radiate mysticism and apocalyptic visions. And the same phenomenon occurs with the Ancient Mayan's esoteric numbers and symbols, which contain a great number of cosmic correlations. 

The designers of this symbolism knew exactly what they were doing. They created a fascinating design for a riddle that could be solved only by extremely curious people who would search for their hidden science. The result of their collective imaginative power is undeniable. They succeeded in passing on their baffling knowledge to the rest of us. And now it's up to all of us to hand down this knowledge to others, thus honoring their ambitious achievements. The Ancient Mayans would surely have wanted this.

Much of the Ancient Mayan's mental powers were focused on tempting future researchers to unveil their secrets, however dark and remote the period would be in the meantime. They were counting on infinite enthusiasm, nothing more and nothing less.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 11, 2007)

It is possible to become in direct contact with the Ancient Mayans work. These Ancient people were the master builders of the past who had created these miracles with telltale intentions, as if it was no trouble for them to do so whatsoever. In the same way they had juggled the transcendental numbers of the precession of the Zodiac, the orbit of Venus, the period of the solar year, ect, and they had incorporated them into the construction of their creations.

Millennia back in time, super mathematicians and extremely intelligent and efficient astronomers recorded all of this information, resulting in the evolution of the codes and calendars left behind by the Ancient Mayans. They are infinitely more correct and complicated than had been thought up until recently. You only need to master their way of thinking to understand this. When you are on the right track, the ability to follow their calculations should pervade down to your deepest core, and you will see the fact that the Ancient Mayans left us all an incredibly correct message, which is a warning to tell us that an all-demolishing geological disaster will torment our land. 

A Worldwide catastrophe unequaled by anything any of us has seen will soon be upon our planet. It's up to you whether to heed this warning and take the necessary measures for your survival and the survival of Humanity.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 11, 2007)

When you ask most any modern day scientist to detail the origin of our time chronology, they cannot give you an honest answer. They don't know, but they do agree on various historical facts.

Our present Gregorian calendar, which is named after Pope Gregory XIII who instituted it in March of 1582, is not the most accurate that has been used by civilization. Although our calendar is quite "refined" it is not as accurate as the one that the Ancient Mayans used thousands of years ago.

The Gregorian year is a bit too long. The error amounts to three days in ten thousand years. The Ancient Mayans year was too short, but the error was only two days in ten thousand years. However, the Ancient Mayans were able to calculate much more accurately than many of our present day scientists think possible. In fact, their mistake was nil in ten thousand years!

Such a revolutionary science is absolutely baffling. It sheds a totally different light on the Ancient Mayan's civilization. The Mayan's reckoning of time was covered with a magical mysticism. They were of the opinion that events moved in a circle, represented by returning cycles of service. Days, months, and years were all members of shift-relief-teams marching through eternity. The priests were able to calculate the combined influence of all the marchers, and in this way they were able to predict the fate of mankind. 

It was expected by the Ancient Mayans that every 260 years, history would repeat itself in certain circles. This mixing of intuition with time may appear to be strange to us. Yet quite intelligent ideas were behind it.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 11, 2007)

However clever though, the Ancient Mayans did not set the basis for our modern day time chronology. For that, we have to give credit to the Middle East, especially at the Babylonians. They created the fundamentals of our present seven-day week, for their astrology was based on the Sun, the Moon and the five planets they had discovered.

The Babylonians divided their time chronology in a sixty-fraction scale. An hour was divided into sixty minutes, and a minute was divided into sixty seconds. Later, in 1345 AD this system was implemented to determine the period of a lunar eclipse. It did not involve a real time chronology, but indeed a theoretical one. Given the movement of the celestial bodies, they calculated the length of the eclipse, based on earlier data.

And the truth of it all is, that all of that knowledge originated from the Ancient Egyptians and was passed down to the Babylonians. In the Middle Ages, they founded their time chronology on thousands-of-years-old data from the Babylonians, who in turn inherited it from Ancient Egypt.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 12, 2007)

The highly developed Ancient Mayan civilization that existed long ago really was capable of making ultra-long calculations of planetary orbits, not only the Earth's, but also those of Venus and other planets. Also, they were somehow able to calculate an amazingly accurate value for the speed of the polar field of the Sun.

Their accuracy was even better than ours! The error they made hardly exists in practice. This is not only unbelievably fascinating, but also alarming. Because they could count so well, the Ancient Mayans were able to determine the position of the Earth around the Sun at a point thousands of years ahead of time. Their calculations were so precise that, just like the Ancient Atlanteans who did the same 12,000 years beforehand, they could predict a solar or planetary event almost to the second!

The Ancient Mayans converted everything into codes and "Holy Numbers", which is one of the reasons that many researchers are still in the dark. To determine the Earth around the Sun, they used three approximation numbers! It is very confusing, and it is not hard to see how they have misled scientists, who describe Ancient Mayan astronomy as "advanced", while in fact it should have been valued as "super brilliant."


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 12, 2007)

Venus meant everything to the Ancient Mayans. Exactly as it did in 9792 BC, Venus is going to make a retrograde loop above the Orion constellation sometime around the year 2012. Here we have an incredibly serious warning, because this year correlates with the end of the Mayan calendar. 

If you use the synodic time period of Venus, known by the Ancient Mayans, you can confirm the story of the legendary Atlantis. Reasoning further on this case, you can decipher the Ancient Mayan calendars and their Dresden Codex. 

In order to display their technical advancement, the Ancient Mayans built their temples in such a way that they exactly indicate the vernal equinoctial point. And they incorporate other features that show that there is an irrefutable relation between their incredibly exact astronomical knowledge and the construction of their temples.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 12, 2007)

The period of eight days when Venus disappears behind the Sun indicates that Venus and the Sun are closely connected. Venus refers to the bygone switches of the magnetic field of the Sun, and also to the big one to come, which will cause the next Pole-Shift on Earth.

On the basis of the codes it is possible to make many additional decipherings of the Ancient Mayan's numbers. The method is identicle to the Ancient Egyptian one, and they are based on the Venus codes that were used by the Ancient Atlanteans. In quite a shocking manner they illustrate the extremely accurate astronomical numbers that the Ancient Mayans had at their disposal. 

Furthermore, the Ancient Mayans knew the sidereal orbit period of the Earth. These discoveries will cause a revolution in the further interpretation of the knowledge of the Ancient Mayans. And that is putting it very mildly. When you have a look at the deciphering, you will see that the magical year of the Ancient Mayans - which was the source for their calendars - can be recovered with the help of the Mayan's value for the synodic period of Venus. It is an essential part of the whole, and an undeniable proof for the complete deciphering.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2007)

How misunderstood the Ancient Mayan geniuses have been for more than 1,250 years. Their encoded pictures have finally come to life again, telling the story of their secret science, of a very high order, which explains how the Sun affects life on Earth.

The Ancient Mayans knew that the Sun affected fertility, that its rays filled some with laughter and others with woe, so with reverence they named many of their children according to their birthdate during an astrological cycle. They knew, too, that much of the surface of the World had been re-created four times before and that each period had ended in catastrophic destruction, which they blamed on the Sun.

Some of the Ancient Mayan's tablets describe the cataclysmic sinking of a large land mass (which many believe is Atlantis). They describe an increase in solar radiation which led to the overheating of the landmass, causing the expansion of underground gases to explode and bubble to the surface, and finally for the continent to sink beneath the ocean.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2007)

Most all of the Ancient Mayan's architecture, jewellery, paintings and carvings all contain the same message: of the Sun, fertility, and the AfterLife.

The Ancient Mayans uderstood that the Sun was causing infertility at a certain point in their history and that it was affecting their females and causing a higher incidence of infant mortality. The reduction of solar radiation led fo a reduction in female fertility hormones, which in turn led to an increase in solar-inspired genetic mutations that manifested later as birth defects. The disruptive solar radiation was responsible not only for infertility but also for miscarriage, congenital disease and deformity. The Ancient Mayans were aware of the fact that the Sun was killing them slowly by causing a fall in fertility levels.

To back this fact up, carvings were later found in parts of the Mexican city of Monte Alban, which depicted mutant babies.

One of the symptoms of this caused a disease for the Ancient Mayans which is known today as Sprengel's deformity, which causes things like a congenitally high right scapula, spina bifida and scoliosis. Ionising radiations, which increase at the time of a Sunspot minimum, are capable of causing such mutations in developing foetuses.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2007)

So the Ancient Mayans were aware of many things relating to the Sun. They were aware of how the Sun causes Astrology, how the Sun controls biorhythms, how the Sun affects fertility, and how the Sun causes catastrophic cycles and periodic global destruction.

Modern science has only recently caught up with the knowledge of the Ancient Mayans:


*1.* In 1986 _Astrogenetics_ explained how the Sun determined personality through genetic mutations at the moment of conception. Mutations correlated with Astrological belief, showing that the Sun causes personality differentiation on a monthly and yearly basis, corresponding with Western Sun-sign Astrology in the short term (monthly) and Chinese Astrology over the long term (12-year cycle).

At the same time, mechanisms of biorhythms, homesickness and navigation by lesser species were all shown to be hormone-driven by variations in solar radiation.

*2.* In 1989 calculation of the duration of the Sunspot cycle revealed that Sunspots and solar magnetic reversals periodically bring catastrophic destruction to the Earth.

*3.* In 1989 the Astrogenetic Theory advanced again with the discovery that the Sun's radiation correlates with the monthly manufacture of the follicle-stimulating hormones in females, and in so doing regulates the menstrual cycle and fertility patterns in females. This causes the rise and fall of civilisations on the Earth.


In 1993 the first volume of _The Amazing Lid of Palenque_ revealed that Lord Pacal, leader of the Ancient Mayans, taught this science to his people more than 1,250 years ago in the jungles of Mexico.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2007)

*The Ancient Mayans have forewarned us of what will come again in the year Katun Ahau 13 (around 2012). This is confirmed by the Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel:*

_"Unattainable is the bread of the Katun in 13 AHAU_ (famine). _The Sun shall be eclipsed. Double is the charge of the Katun: men without offspring, chiefs without successors_ (infertility). _For five days the Sun shall be eclipsed_ (pole-shift), _then it shall be seen again. This is the charge of Katun 13 Ahau._


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 13, 2007)

More than a thousand years ago, in the jungles of Central America, the Ancient Mayans believed that the Earth had been destroyed on four previous occasions; now we know why, and how.

The Ancient Mayans believed that the Sun affects fertility and the rise and fall of civilisations; now we know how.

The Ancient Mayans believed in Astrology, that the Sun affects character, fate and fortune; now we know that it does.

The Ancient Mayans believed that we are now living in the fifth and final "Age of the Sun", which they say will end in the year 2012.

Perhaps we should start listening to what they have been trying to tell us.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 17, 2007)

These scientific predictions originate from the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans. Both civilizations are said to be descendants of the legendary Atlanteans, and they had very highly-evolved astronomical knowledge. In ancient antiquity, they were able to accurately predict the end of our current civilizations. They knew how and why the next Pole-Shift is going to force us to our knees.

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans also had incredibly precise calculations for the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. They are so accurate that they exceed our current values. These calculations were nothing but exact. And this is crucial, because the calculations of the Ancient Eyptians and the Ancient Mayans are totally based on the science of the Earth's relation to the Sun.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 17, 2007)

We read in the ancient scriptures about the super traumatizing events of almost 12,000 years ago: fire, lightning, hurricanes, tidal waves, volcanic explosions, a black sky, famine, cold, and so on. The poor unfortunate people who experienced these events had to have been so shocked, that it dominated their whole Life. They passed warnings on to their children and great-grandchildren, who in turn passed them on down to the next generations. 

And in the center of all this are the stories about the survivors. And these stories contain codes so that their descendants can prepare themselves for this catastrophe of all catastrophes that we will soon be facing.

The conveyance of this knowledge lies for us mainly in the writings of the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans. In their well-preserved secrets we can find the foreboding numbers that will lead us to the complete unveiling of the previous period of catastrophe, and to their predictions of the next.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 17, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans were successful in predicting the coming end of our World as we know it. Their predictions contain a mathematical logic, which reveals an extensive plan leading up to the Apocalypse that will occur sometime within the next 5-6 years on planet Earth, and which will help pave the way for the Age of Peace that begins right after it on December 21st, 2012 AD.

It seems extremely logical to conclude that there is a direct connection between the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans. And also between Ancient Mexico and Ancient Egypt. The figures and combinations are such that one can discover it automatically. And this also proves that their codes were conveived in such a way that there was almost no option but to discover them!

One will definately be amazed by their knowledge of science, construction, engineering, and their culture. And also to the fact that they were committed to proving that they were able to calculate the next Pole-Shift that we have coming to us.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 17, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans adopted the science of the Ancient Atlanteans. And with it they made other combinations with the same numbers. And the discovery of their numbers/codes reveals their secrets. Only because of their codes can a person discover the points of connection between the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans and present the undeniable proof that they must have had an identical origin. 

Many of the Ancient Egyptian and Ancient Mayan rules were worked out in places like "The Double House of Life", which is a temple in Egypt or in other corresponding temples in South America. These ancient schools with their "Holy Secrets" were the basic source of all the knowledge of both civilizations. They relied therefore upon the calculations made by their ancestors in the "Circle of Gold" which was a structure in Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis).

These Laws remained with the survivors of the previous catastrophes. It was their decision, and again that of their progency after them, as to whether they would continue to use such a gift and to what end it would be used for.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2007)

The recovered knowledge provides excellent proof of the advanced science that these ancient civilizations possessed. The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans were much more developed civilizations than was originally thought possible. Why? Because they knew things like the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, ect. And many times they disguised their knowledge with code numbers.

By taking literally the statements of the Ancient Atlanteans, Egyptians, and Mayans, you can stumble upon a manner of calculation within an orderly system. Their is a similar system behind the pattern of thinking of these ancient giants of mathematics and science. When focusing on it, a magic world of numbers appears, full of unexpected but undeniable and strange similarities. 

With the connection of Venus and the periods of the previous two Pole-Shifts one can stumble upon the similarities between the Sothic cycle of Ancient Egypt and the Ancient Mayan's numbers.

The correlation between the Ancient Mayan super-numbers and the Ancient Egyptian Sothic numbers is extensive. Several Ancient Mayan numbers are multiple of Ancient Egyptian Sothic numbers multiplied by code numbers.

The Ancient Mayan and the Ancient Egyptian way of calculation are both supported, undeniably, by the same series of numbers. For this reason it can be said that the Ancient Mayans and the Ancient Egyptians have the same origin, in this case, Aha-Men-Ptah/Atlantis.


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## actsnoblemartin (Apr 27, 2007)

)


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2007)

We should take the Ancient Egyptian and Ancient Mayan warnings about the coming Pole-Shift very seriously because they were capable of making extremeley accurate predictions about planetary orbits and the past two disasters.

Our ancestors warned us about the coming Pole-Shift through their coded messages. They knew exactly which kinds of mechanisms were hiding behind the biggest atmospheric and Earth changes. With unmatched accuracy they were able to follow and depict the Zodiac, and they even calculated the exact dates of the previous two Pole-Shifts.

Many of the riddles that puzzle many astronomers, geologists, physicians and others can be solved in one go by the catastrophe theories of the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans. They knew that when a beam of lightning hits a magnet, its poles reverse. Beams of lightning from the Sun, or in more scientific terms, Sunstorms, can also cause this phenomenon on the Earth if they are big enough and strong enough, like the ones we will soon be facing.

After all, the Earth is one big magnet. The moment the ionized particles from the Sunstorm force their way into the poles, a gigantic short-circuit will occur. Just as with a normal magnet, the magnetic North Pole will change places with the magnetic South Pole. The Earth will start turning around the other way with catastrophic consequences for mankind. Cooled down magma with a reversed polarization already found by geologists proves this abundantly.

It is for this reason that the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans payed so much attention to this phenomenon. They knew that when the Earth would short circuit again, in our current days, that the core of the Earth would reverse all at once. At the same time super earthquakes would shake the entire Earth.

Folks...this is what our planet will soon be enduring.


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## NuclearWinter (Apr 27, 2007)

actsnoblemartin said:


> )



Glad you find it that way. To me, this coming series of events is the story of all stories relating to the history of our Planet.


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## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2007)

Deciphering the main meaning of the Ancient Egyptian and Ancient Mayan codes are possible, but only if you decipher these scientific masterpieces together. It's about time we respect these highly developed scientists for their knowledge. Then we can ring the alarm Worldwide and try to help at least part of Humankind to survive. We will either encounter our Armageddon, or sow the seeds of the next civilization coming after us.


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## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans were Sun worshippers. They had every reason for doing this, as the Sun not only gives Life but also brings Death.

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans had extremely accurate knowledge regarding the time it takes for the Earth to make a revolution around the Sun. With their incredible accuracy, they had no trouble calculating the time it takes for a revolution of the Sun's magnetic fields.

This is why the warnings of the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans have to be taken very seriously. The fact that they were aware of these theories is Earthshaking in itself!

Thanks to some of the Ancient Egyptian papyruses that are more than 5,000 years old, we know absolutely that the Ancient Egyptians were capable of calculating extremely difficult mathematical problems. As were the Ancient Mayans.

Just to give one example of what the Ancient Egyptians could do, they were able to calculate the volume and surface area of a half sphere. This problem appears in the Papyrus of Rhind, which can be found in Moscow. Its age is estimated at over 5,000 years, and it was copied from even older documents.

This is just further proof that the Ancient Egyptians knew alot more than many modern scientists are willing to admit.


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## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans knew the magnetic Sunspot cycle theory. This is clear evidence that they could do the job, unconditional proof that they were both of similar origin, and that they had brilliant mathematicians and astronomers that were in many ways far superior to even contemporary scientists.

For both civilizations the magnetic Sunspot cycle was central to their lives. This is not hard to believe when you realize that a giant solar storm, stemming from a culmination of the Sunspot cycle, will soon be switching the polar fields of our planet. The resulting catastrophe will kill billions of people, probably almost all of mankind.

What is very important is that many of our Nuclear plants be completely shut down before the Pole-Shift occurs because of the destruction that will befall them by enormous Earthquakes. If many of the plants are not shut down before this coming catastrophe, it is quite possible that much of the Earth will become a giant radioactive ball.


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## NuclearWinter (May 2, 2007)

Just as the Rosetta stone induced the start of Egyptology, the decoding of the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayan codes will cause a revolution in the knowledge of antiquity. It is a crucial link to the existence of our civilization. In a certain way these numbers belong to an esoteric numerology. These are essential numbers, which can be processed to find the basic components. When those are processed in turn, they lead to the same numbers!

The relavent numbers are a metaphor for the pre-calculated Pole-Shift that is very soon going to ravage our whole Earth. They are the intriguing climax of a search into the reasons for the Pole-Shifts, the "falling down of skies", the destruction of land, animals and people. 

Brought together in an essential symbolism, an immense complexity of mythology, religion, science and mathematics, is hidden in the ancient's simplicity.


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2007)

The omnipresence of the symbolic numbers used by the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans is no coincidence. It underlines a strange but understandable similarity. The numbers are the synthesis of a super-civilization (Atlantis) that was confronted with the end of its time - calculated by mathematical "gods" who cleverly incorporated their mythology and knowledge into one big idea which became a source of disturbingly exact scientific knowledge.

Research indicates that the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans both had the knowledge of the Ancient Atlanteans. They also were aware of the two points in a year where day and night are equal. This can be proven because several of their temples were built at the point where the Sun rose above horizon at the beginning of the Spring.

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans also knew that it takes 72 years before the Sun shifts one degree over the ecliptic. This is a remarkably precise calculation according to the astronomers of today. Only science of a mathematically and astronomically high standard can produce such accuracy. The precession cycle is a majestic machine of extraordinary complexity. And yet these ancients were able to figure it out.


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans, as descendants of the legendary Atlanteans, predict an even even more violent that is supposed to occur on our Earth sometime between the years of 2009-December 21, 2012.

They calculated that after almost 12,000 years, there will be another gigantic reversal of the magnetic field of the Sun! When that happens, there will be trillions of particles that will reach the Earth's poles and set them on "fire". This will put alot of pressure on the Earth and its magnetic field will become overcharged. Alot of electrical forces will be generated which will fill the Earth's poles with auroras from the falling particles of the Sun. And then, inevitably, the Earth's magnetic field will crash.

After the magnetic field of the Earth crashes, it will then soon after reverse. Once it reverses completely, our entire planet will start spinning the other way.


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## NuclearWinter (May 12, 2007)

Many scientists have tried to pass off our Earth's magnetic field as being "weak". This is completely false. When you measure the size of the Earth's magnetic field you will see figures that will flabbergast you, and you will realize that it is a colossal structure.

The Sun also has two equally spectacular magnetic fields. If you zoomed in closer to the Sun, you would see a super-impressive rotating field that is driven by the magnetic fields. Should you watch the field of the Sun's equator from a spaceship, you would be overwhelmed by the image in your retina. The equatorial field of the Sun rotates around its own axis at the incredible speed of 7,000 kilometers per hour! And with it, cluttered masses of matter are dragged along. It is a gigantic, burning top, with solar flames tormenting its surface.

If you projected the Earth onto a small solar flame, you would only detect it as a tiny pinhead in all that violence. The magnetic powers of the Sun are, to this extent, out of this World! And when they explode onto our Earth during the next Pole-Shift, we will experience something that the people of the Earth haven't had to endure for 12,000 years.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 10, 2007)

Thousands of years ago, the predecessors of the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans discovered the powers of solar magnetism. They knew that grim events hide behind this phenomenon. Further research helped the ancient scientists discover that the rotating field of the Sun winds itself like a coil, like a fight between competing powers. On one hand gravity tries to merge all matter, while on the other hand magnetic powers fight against this. For awhile, these competitive powers succeed in keeping in balance with each other, and live peacefully side-by-side. However, when instabilities start taking place, these forces are unleashed in a powerful manner.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 10, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and Mayans had solved alot of other enigmas as well, such as the phases of the Moon, and the solar eclipses and seasons. They could explain, for instance, the solar eclipses, by the fact that the geometrical positions of the Earth, the Sun and the Moon were at that moment aligned. This is due to a regular manner in which these celestial bodies move around each other in defined trajectories. These things happened because of scientific patterns. 

But what about sudden events on the Sun? What chain of causes lay behind these? By thinking logically, they also knew that earthquakes were the result of the accumulation of tensions in the Earth crust.

Their faith became their driving force: every super-eruption on the Sun was caused by a portending event. Even when you can only understand a part of the total image, in principle there has to be a superior mechanism behind it all, something that rules all other things. With the help of that mechanism, it had to be possible to predict the violent future of the Sun and its repercussions on the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 10, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans discovered a geometrical order about the Sun that, once it reached a crucial phase, would cause an obscure "short-circuit". The field would run wild then die a violent death in a super Sunstorm. Shortly after this, it would reverse the Earth's magnetic field resulting in a super catastrophe for all living beings on the planet.

The Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans realized that the future hangs by a thread, and that it is as fragile as the Earth will be in the bursting violence of the Sun. Therefore they had to find the answer to this imperative question: When will the rotating field of the Sun decidedly change the cycle of life and death on Earth? And find the answer they did. 

The Ancient Egyptian Zodiac and the Ancient Mayan codices are both crown jewels of mathematical and astronomical mastery. Like crown jewels of pure gold, inlaid with super-bright diomands of the highest quality. When you see the groundwork behind their codes, you simply cannot deny it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 16, 2007)

The panorama of the codes is unveiling a grim view of events that will spare very few Human Beings. Our lives and the continuity of mankind depend on these secrets being revealed. For many people the decipherings will seem too complicated, but they will surely understand its astonishing revelations.

In scientific dissertations, a real deciphering has to contain a bit more than just a hunch. It has to be convincing and should be supported by consistent principles. And the Ancient's codes are such.

Mathematicians have the greatest respect for theories that are developed on a strict mathematical basis. And the Ancient's codes are also such. They contain results and comparisons that enable further decoding. Anybody who can add, subtract, divide, and multiply can confirm this.


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## Superlative (Jun 16, 2007)

No offence.

You have been talking to yourself for over a hundred posts.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 16, 2007)

Astronomers need to research the Sunspot cycle urgently. Just like the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans, they should then be able to calculate the fatal date we have awaiting us. This way, we will not only be aware of what is coming, but we can also take the necessary measures to rescue mankind.

The fatal date that the Ancients gave us must be taken extremely seriously. Besides the fact that they worked with round Holy Numbers, they also knew with wild accuracy some very important details.

Through logical reasoning, a person can calculate one thing on the basis of another. This shows an undeniable relation between the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans. They knew the secrets of Atlantis, as well as the Atlantean way of calculating what is to occur as we ALL approach December 21, 2012.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 16, 2007)

Superlative said:


> No offence.
> 
> You have been talking to yourself for over a hundred posts.



No offense taken. I don't have time to wonder who's reading and who's not. The important thing is that I'm posting what I believe is important. And that's all that matters to me.


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## Superlative (Jun 16, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> No offense taken. I don't have time to wonder who's reading and who's not. The important thing is that I'm posting what I believe is important. And that's all that matters to me.



Do you have a blog?

You should start one.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 16, 2007)

Superlative said:


> Do you have a blog?
> 
> You should start one.



I just may do that. However I am not only trying to simply post information. Believe it or not I would like more people to get in here and start talking back and forth about all this.

If they don't. Thats ok. If they do...all the better.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 16, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mayans share common characteristics related to the catastrophe that is going to hit us. The Ancient Mayan's codes mainly concern the planet Venus and it's role in the catastrophe. The Zodiac and the precessional eras were more important to the Ancient Egyptians. Both civilizations incorporated the Sunspot cycle into their calculations. In the Egyptian ones, this was more difficult to decipher than in the Mayan ones.

In the year of the previous Pole-Shift, 9792 BC, Venus made a loop above and to the left of the constellation Orion. Sometime as we approach 2012 Venus will make a similar movement again. This will signal the Pole-Shift. Eventually, the whole Earth is going to start turning the other way around after the reversal of the poles.

The discovery of the works of the Ancients proves that their methods were not "coincidental", but that they were indeed a brilliant processing of common codes. In order to fully decipher the Ancient Mayan's Dresden Codex, you must first have all the essential Egyptian decipherings at your disposal. These prove the origins of the codes. The Sunspot cycle concerns the magnetic fields of the Sun and the Sunstorms, while the Egyptian Zodiac shows their consequences for the Earth.

The precession of the Zodiac can also be found in the Ancient Mayan's calculations of the Sunspot cycle. When the magnetic field of the Sun changes, the influence on our Earth is catastrophic. As mentioned many times before, after the coming Pole-Shift, our Earth will be landing in another age of the Zodiac. The Age of Aquarius.


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## Superlative (Jun 16, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> I just may do that. However I am not only trying to simply post information. Believe it or not I would like more people to get in here and start talking back and forth about all this.
> 
> If they don't. Thats ok. If they do...all the better.



Your asking someone to peel a mountain of potatoes, no one is going to go back 100 posts to catch up to what you are saying. 

Im no different than anyone else here, if a post looks the least bit daunting, No one will read it, let alone 100 posts.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 17, 2007)

Superlative said:


> Your asking someone to peel a mountain of potatoes, no one is going to go back 100 posts to catch up to what you are saying.
> 
> Im no different than anyone else here, if a post looks the least bit daunting, No one will read it, let alone 100 posts.



Well, I hate to tell you this, but if all this stuff goes down the way I believe it will, then people who had a chance to learn about this and who decided to pass it up are going to be in for quite a shock. To say the least.


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## mattskramer (Jun 17, 2007)

I looked at the posts for a little while.  I noticed that Atlantis was mentioned.  Atlantis is a fiction, probably created by Plato to illustrate his socio-political views.  

Fictional stories about it have been handed down throughout the ages but Atlantis never really existed. It is as real as Superman.


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## mattskramer (Jun 17, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Well, I hate to tell you this, but if all this stuff goes down the way I believe it will, then people who had a chance to learn about this and who decided to pass it up are going to be in for quite a shock. To say the least.



Even if people read what you post, they might not believe it.  Write a book and get it published as Al Gore did with An Inconvenient Truth.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 17, 2007)

mattskramer said:


> I looked at the posts for a little while.  I noticed that Atlantis was mentioned.  Atlantis is a fiction, probably created by Plato to illustrate his socio-political views.
> 
> Fictional stories about it have been handed down throughout the ages but Atlantis never really existed. It is as real as Superman.



See I disagree. I noticed you said Atlantis is a fiction, as if that were stating that as 100&#37; fact, but then you said "probably" right afterwards. Which means that you're not sure.

How could we be? No one could be 100% sure as of yet. But...I personally believe that it did exist. And I believe that the evidence for proving that is slowly coming to fruition.


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## mattskramer (Jun 17, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> See I disagree. I noticed you said Atlantis is a fiction, as if that were stating that as 100&#37; fact, but then you said "probably" right afterwards. Which means that you're not sure.
> 
> How could we be? No one could be 100% sure as of yet. But...I personally believe that it did exist. And I believe that the evidence for proving that is slowly coming to fruition.



I guess that I did not communicate clearly.  I indented for the word &#8220;probably&#8221; to refer to Plato as being the first person to imagine and write of Atlantis.  I do not think that Freud or Marx came up with it.  I am confident that Atlantis does not exist and that it never did exist.  I am as confident of this as I am confident that 3-inch high 2-headed leprechauns don&#8217;t exist.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 23, 2007)

Sometime within the next 6 years, the magnetic field of the Sun will change. A catastrophic Sunstorm will hit the Earth, resulting in the reversal of the Earth's magnetic poles, after which the rotation of our planet will reverse. Furthermore, the Earth will be catapulted into Aquarius. The code of Venus correlates with this moment in time. For several months, Venus will make an apparent retrograde movement above Orion. With their prior calculations and clever encoding of this event, the Ancient Egyptians as well as the Ancient Mayans proved their advanced knowledge of this event.

Everybody knows the old saying, "Third time's a charm", but where does it come from? Nobody seems to know. But I am of the opinion that there is something definately to that statement. And we (as a Human race) are about to experience our third Pole-Shift here on Earth. 

Theoretically, after 1,924 years one can see a first deviation in the tenth long Sunspot cycle. This could provoke an increase of the solar activity. After doubling this period to 3,848 years the deviation becomes clear. It concerns the reversal of the magnetic field. Because the reversal of the magnetic field takes place after two thirds (66.6&#37 of a Sunspot cycle of 11,567 years, it doesn't involve a fierce or even a broken-off reversal. The same holds for the next change. Not until the third reversal of the magnetic field can we speak of an all-demolishing change, because then it coincides with the reversal of the corresponding Sunspot cycle. At that moment the Sun's energy will increase its force of radiation and send a gigantic cloud of plasma in the direction of the Earth.

When you multiply 3,848 years by three, it results in 11,544 years. This is extremely close to 11,520 years, the period between the previous two Pole-Shifts. And what does this mean? It means that the next one is right around the corner.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 23, 2007)

Passionate researchers and mathematicians should study this more carefully. They will possibly find even more codes and unveil other secrets of the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans. A person can link their eternal language of mathematics to time: glorious and transient time.

Since the coming into existence of the Ancient Egyptian and Mayan codes, thousands of kingdoms have risen and perished. Despite all these countless frictions, their coded messages have survived unscathed for centuries, simply and soley through the existence of some important papyri. They show more than clearly many detailed correlations that are too clear and that carry the recognizable traces of an elaborate design. And their obsession with numbers was unrivalled.

How can a person not feel completely knocked out by such complicated beauty? Their codes are indeed more than clear. Their calculations of a long-lost civilization are absolutely correct up to an infinite number of figures after the decimal point! And we should take their announcements of the next Pole-Shift extremely seriously! The codes of these old scientists are cleverer and more advanced than many of our present day programs! They are full of super-clever mathematical calculations. Everything fits in; you find an answer to everything. 

Amazing buildings, bright and shining in their magnitude, were designed by these mysterious people that dreamt of Eternal Life after Death. The burning fire of their passion for numbers emanates so immensely, that there are no words to describe it. All the key elements of their calculations fit into refined and advanced formulas. When classifying their rows of numbers using the same logic, you stumble upon an enormous instrument. This complicated system gives almost appallingly beautiful results, full of mystical and Spiritual mysteries, and at the same time functional and efficient. It was constructed by the ancients to fulfill a task, demanding in a stylish way the complete attention of researchers.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 23, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and Mayans had reproduced the period between the previous two and the coming Pole-Shift quite accurately in mathematical terms. For these reasons we can be sure of the arithmetical abilities of the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans, who have situated the next catastrophic Pole-Shift to occur sometime very soon. 

The turbulent events from the past were so terrifying that our ancestors did anything to find the answers to their important questions. And this super accuracy that they developed, which they then passed down to their descendants, is one of the remarkable outcomes of their thinking and calculations. For the time being it is still a riddle how exactly they were able to do this, however it also leaves the door open for future research.

Again, everything these Ancients measured and built radiates the same obsession for extreme exactitude, as if their lives had depended on it. And they did. On the basis of the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, they were able to define the period of the magnetic fields of the Sun up to several figures after the decimal point. Once you know these values, you are able to make predictions about the Sun. The results of which reveal the coming Pole-Shift that WILL SOON CHANGE EVERYTHING AS WE HAVE EVER KNOWN IT ON THIS PLANET. 

And that my friends, is the reality of our situation.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 30, 2007)

The Ancient Atlanteans, the Ancient Egyptians, and the Ancient Mayans all knew the number zero, and they used exact figures after the decimal point. Neither the Greeks nor the Romans did this. In the eighth century of our era the Arabs re-discovered the number zero through an astronomical work from Indonesia. Only in the twelfth century did the Muslims introduce this in Spain.

It would take two more centuries before the whole of Europe could use the number zero. Knowing this makes the enormous knowledge of the Ancient Atlanteans, Egyptians, and Mayans ever more impressive.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 30, 2007)

Perhaps one of the most amazing things of all is that the "Holy" calculations of the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans can be supported by our presently-known denary scale! When you look at their calculations, you can discover this immediately! The similarities emanate from the present way of adding, subtracting, dividing, and multiplying. This means that our present system must be some what of  an inheritance from the Ancient Atlanteans, and that it has been passed down to us through the survivors.

With this knowledge, the list of Ancient Atlantean legacies becomes quite long. Besides the time chronology (seconds, minutes, hours), the Ancient Atlanteans gave us astronomy (360 degrees, pyramid, volume, ect.). They also were the first known civilization to know the values for the Sunspot cycle. They were one of the first to develop architecture, the art of writing and, now, the denary scale. This is quite a performance for a completely forgotten civilization.


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## NuclearWinter (Jun 30, 2007)

The Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans knew the exact figures of the Sunspot cycle. With these exact figures they could calculate the moment of the violent reversal of the Suns's magnetism. It is up to us to solve this riddle as soon as possible. Only in this way will the World be convinced of the approaching calamity.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 1, 2007)

We are approaching the biggest catastrophe that Humanity has ever known and we are doing it at a terrifying speed. And as true ostriches, people continue to bury their heads in the sand, completely blind to what is awaiting them. However, the message of the old super-scientists is more than clear: the magnetic field of the Earth will reverse in one go and completely destroy our civilization.  

The people who discovered this sent us a message in an international language, summarized in mathematical astronomical codes. Mystery after mystery can be revealed, because the whole was based on a meticulous scheme, an immeasurable whole comprising series of numbers, overlapping and complementing each other.

In a tearing rush, we are storming ahead to our Armageddon, the "World Fire". No movie star, however well paid, can save the World from it's coming downfall. On the contrary, considering the wealth and resources they have at hand, many of them will be the first to try to save themselves - if they believe that this cataclysm is coming in our direction. But since the press is hardly interested in the coming changes, the chance for even that may be very small.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 1, 2007)

For the Ancient Atlanteans, Egyptians, and Mayans, the consciousness of the "End" was at the base of their ambitious projects of sky imitation: they mirrored on the ground what had happened in the sky or what will happen again. This was the basis of the whole religion and Spiritual thinking of these ancients. They wanted to save the following generations from total annihilation, from the complete disappearance of their knowledge, caused by the magnetic short-circuit on the Sun with its super Sunstorm. Their obsession with handing down this information intact survived for millennia, but finally their overwhelming knowledge about Pole-Shifts was lost, due mainly to wars. However, the Ancients left so many clear clues that it is almost impossible to disregard their superior science any longer.


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## mattskramer (Jul 1, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> For the Ancient Atlanteans, Egyptians, and Mayans, the consciousness of the "End" was at the base of their ambitious projects of sky imitation: they mirrored on the ground what had happened in the sky or what will happen again. This was the basis of the whole religion and Spiritual thinking of these ancients. They wanted to save the following generations from total annihilation, from the complete disappearance of their knowledge, caused by the magnetic short-circuit on the Sun with its super Sunstorm. Their obsession with handing down this information intact survived for millennia, but finally their overwhelming knowledge about Pole-Shifts was lost, due mainly to wars. However, the Ancients left so many clear clues that it is almost impossible to disregard their superior science any longer.



Are you cutting and pasting this stuff directly form another site or is this your own stuff?  If it is the former, please provide a link.  IF it is the latter, please write a book.  I think that it would get published and that you could get money from it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 2, 2007)

mattskramer said:


> I think that it would get published and that you could get money from it.



God forbid money would ever be the driving force behind my posts.

I appreciate the idea Skramer. But I'll pass because it's not about money. It's about 3-6 years left before the big show.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 2, 2007)

When you decode the Egyptian Zodiac, you can find the Sunspot cycle of the Ancient Mayans. This deciphering also proves that the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans had a common origin. The Maya number for the orbit period of the Earth around the Sun confirms the decoding of the Sothic cycle. Once more, this proves the common origin of the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans.

Juggling the Ancient's figures makes everything fall into place. Don't forget, this is just a fraction of the stirring journey of discovery through their well-kept secrets. One by one, each can be dismantled to reveal the most important messages. And yet there are many more. In fact, that is just typical for a highly-developed civilization. Ours keeps many too, like the atomic bomb, the secret weapons, patented products, and so forth. However, none of them are as fascinating to me as those of disappeared civilizations like the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans.

The Ancient Egyptian and Mayan civilizations radiate an immensely rich source of knowledge. Their knowledge is closely connected to a catastrophe that swept away the old civilization of Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis), and one that is threatening to do the same with ours.


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## mattskramer (Jul 3, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> God forbid money would ever be the driving force behind my posts.
> 
> I appreciate the idea Skramer. But I'll pass because it's not about money. It's about 3-6 years left before the big show.



I dont care to read the long convoluted high-brow story but I an intrigued by your prediction.  Please briefly say what the big show is. 

Let me make it more precise and concrete. 
Please answer yes or no.  

Is it your belief that the earth with face massive devastation inside of 7 years?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2007)

mattskramer said:


> I don&#8217;t care to read the long convoluted high-brow story but I an intrigued by your prediction.  Please briefly say what the &#8220;big show&#8221; is.
> 
> Let me make it more precise and concrete.
> Please answer &#8220;yes or no&#8221;.
> ...



Oh I plan to. In fact I have been. If you haven't been paying attention. But don't worry...I plan to go into detail as to what exactly I believe is going to happen. Along with science, historical reference, and other forms of proof (as I usually try to use) to back up what I will be posting.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2007)

Clearly it seems likely that cultural contact between the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans took place across the oceans and interfused some of the beliefs and customs between the two civilisations. Recent research from various sources suggests that trading links existed between Egypt and Mexico.

Ancient Egyptian tomb paintings, from the time of the fourth dynasty Pharaohs in around 2600 BC, depict paintings of papyrus reed boats that many believed capable of carrying crews, cargoes and legends from the old world of Egypt to the new world of central America. 

The Norwegian explorer Thor Heyerdahl believed that these primitive boats could survive transoceanic passages. To prove this point he journeyed to Lake Chad, in the African interior, acquiring the skills to build a boat, along the lines of those in the tomb paintings, which would cope with the long sea journey. Assembling a crew of seven, he set sail from the West African port of Safi, in Morocco, in a papyrus reed boat named _Ra_ (after the Egyptian Sun-"god"), which was 13.7 metres (45 feet) long, 4.6 metres (15 feet wide) and 1.8 metres (6 feet deep).

Carried by the trade winds and equatorial currents, Heyerdahl's boat covered 3,000 miles (4,830 kilometres) in just under eight weeks. After that distance, the boat suffered under a storm and sank beneath the ocean. However, After this semi-successful voyage, Heyerdahl decided to go for it again in 1970, and so he created another boat with a crew of 8 and called it _Ra II_ . 

Heyerdahl and his crew in _Ra II_ reached the West Indies after 57 days at sea. Heryerdahl and his crew proved that primitive crossings could have been made of the Atlantic, from North Africa to Central America, using basic technology and materials. He had also shown that voyages like this could have been made over 3,000 years ago.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 3, 2007)

On balance, it seems clear that World trade facilitated the transportation of tobacco and cocaine from the Americas to Egypt either westwards or eastwards prior to 1000 BC. The legend of the feathered snake, together with the super-science it represented, could have accompanied the transfer of these goods. Both the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Mayans taught the same things at different times.

There are many other parallels between Ancient Egypt and Ancient Mexico as well. 

*1.* Both civilisations worshipped the Sun and fertility.

*2.* Both cultures encoded information into their art, yet each ensured that about only half of the information could be seen, as though the knowledge was secret, and meant for few, not for the many.

*3.* Both civilisations cherished the lotus flower as a divine symbol.

*4.* Both civilisations were associated with the feathered snake.

*5.* Both civilisations had similar teachings and both of them encoded their sacred knowledge.

*6.* Both civilisations prophesied destruction.

*7.* Both civilisations believed in reincarnation and everlasting life.

*8.* Both civilisations believed in the after life.

*9.* Both civilisations believed in a form of resurrection.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2007)

So there we have it folks. 3 of the World's Ancient Civilizations all saying the same thing. The Atlanteans, the Ancient Egyptians, and the Ancient Mayans, all connected, all warning us about a forthcoming catastrophe, all trying to tell us what happened to their Lost Continent.

Now, each person has a choice here. They can either believe what they have been telling us, or they can choose to disregard it all as fairytales.

I have made my choice. And I believe in what they were trying to tell us. I do believe we are on the edge of a major catastrophic disaster on our Earth. And I do believe it's coming extremely soon. And all I can say for those that do not believe it is, "ignorance may be bliss, true, but only for so long."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2007)

The knowledge that has been passed down to us from these ancient civilizations now allows us to explain a lot of geological mysteries from our current era. More than 12,000 years ago, huge parts of Europe and North America were covered with glaciers, countless mountains of ice. At that time Denmark did not exist, but there was a gruesome landscape reaching more than one kilometer high. The major part of the British Isles lay hidden under the ice, and there were vast glaciers in many more places. The present Hudson Bay used to be a frozen landscape of an unearthly whiteness. There was ice everywhere. The layers were so deep that even the top of the nearly 2,000 meter high Mount Washington in present day New Hampshire lay buried underneath. In the west another blanket of ice lay stretched out, from the northern Rocky Mountains to the Aleuts. In the Southern Hemisphere, glaciers hurtled down from the Andes and from the mountains of New Zealand.

Why are we nowadays so certain of that? It can be explained easily: ice layers and glaciers leave impressive traces behind when the melting point has been reached, the ice slides down hundreds of meters deep under its own weight. It grates the Earth's surface and takes the debris in its frosty grip; rocks as big as trucks are thus broken off and dragged along countless kilometers. The waste flows to the river valleys, eroding away their V-shaped beds into U-shapes, and where these valleys covered with ice lie close to the sea, it cuts out deep fjords.


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## mattskramer (Jul 7, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> So there we have it folks. 3 of the World's Ancient Civilizations all saying the same thing. The Atlanteans, the Ancient Egyptians, and the Ancient Mayans, all connected, all warning us about a forthcoming catastrophe, all trying to tell us what happened to their Lost Continent.
> 
> Now, each person has a choice here. They can either believe what they have been telling us, or they can choose to disregard it all as fairytales.
> 
> I have made my choice. And I believe in what they were trying to tell us. I do believe we are on the edge of a major catastrophic disaster on our Earth. And I do believe it's coming extremely soon. And all I can say for those that do not believe it is, "ignorance may be bliss, true, but only for so long."




Come on already.  Give me a specific date when the earth will be destroyed, as we know it so that I can get ready.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2007)

Almost no geologist is able to explain logically why there was so much ice in Europe and America. All sorts of guesses have been circulated. Astronomers presume that the orbit of the Earth could have been responsible for this mass of ice. The possible explanation would be that it might have been located a bit further from the Sun, in a somewhat slanting position. But others were able to prove that the difference in Sun radiation would not have been big enough. Innumerable theories were sent into the World but came back empty-handed due to the lack of evidence. The only thing they are sure of is that there is a relation between the Precession (of the Zodiac) and the existence of the Ice Ages. Aside from that, alot of it for them is guesswork. But now, because of the Ancient's warnings, we can put an end to all the doubts.

Because of the Ancient's writings, we now know what happened in Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis), the perished paradise. In 21,312 BC the axis of the Earth slid; in 9792 BC, the Earth started to rotate in the opposite direction, and the Earth crust shifted thousands of kilometers. Each catastrophe changed the position of the poles. 

With that, in one go, all conditions are met to explain the alteration of Ice Ages and moderate climates. First of all, there must have been increased precipitation otherwise ice masses cannot develop. So where did the water come from? The explanation is simple. The shifted ice masses from the poles start to melt and evaporate into the atmosphere. This increased evaporation increases the amount of rainfall over the whole Earth. Where the new poles are now located, water drops in the form of snow and ice, which rapidly bank up to huge heights. Billions of tons of ice now lay on top of the dead cities and portions of Atlantis. 

Within just a few years from now, during our time, snow and ice will dominate over an enormous part of the European and North American landscape. This is inevitable.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2007)

mattskramer said:


> Come on already.  Give me a specific date when the earth will be destroyed, as we know it so that I can get ready.



Anywhere from the beginning of 2009 to the end of 2012. Thats when you can expect the Pole-Shift to occur. Sometime within that timeframe.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2007)

The Pole-Shift gives the answers to questions like why did glaciers cover most of Europe in antiquity, while northeastern Siberia, which is now located above the Polar Circle, remained free of ice? The answer of many of the traditional scientists is: "Uh we don't know...No idea.." A satisfying answer is yet to be forwarded by these groups. But that does not mean that you cannot have the real answer right now because it's all explained by the Pole-Shift.

Through the shift of the Earth's crust, Siberia changed its latitudinal location all at once and it was destined to become the coldest place in the World - changing from moderate to an ice-cold climate, all in one day. And there is massive proof at hand.

Before the shift of the Earth's crust, a lot of the World's now extinct animals were living in this area, such as mammoths, which fed on plants. At a time simultaneous with the end of the last Ice Age, these mastodons became extinct. In northeastern Siberia great numbers of mammoth skeletons were found, and many of them were well preserved frozen corpses. This finding stunned the World! To date more than fifty perfectly preserved corpses have been exhumed, some of which still had undigested pieces of food in their stomachs. The bodies were so well preserved that dogs could eat the meat without negative consequences. According to eyewitnesses, the flesh looked like frozen cow meat. Their end must have arrived all of the sudden; there is no doubt about that.

Analyses showed that they choked to death, probably from drowning. If they had not frozen immediately, they would have rotted, the flesh disintegrating. Only a catastrophe such as a Pole-Shift can provide sufficient explanation for this riddle. In such an extreme cold, mammoths could not possibly have survived. They were killed in one go, without warning; with food still in their mouths and stomachs, they were carried away thousands of kilometers and afterwards covered with ice.


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## trobinett (Jul 7, 2007)

Hmmm, I see SOME things don't change.

THIS has to be the longest running thread, that absolutely adds NOTHING to the overall quality of the site.

Of course, that's only MY opinion, and you DO know what they say...................


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 7, 2007)

trobinett said:


> Hmmm, I see SOME things don't change.
> 
> THIS has to be the longest running thread, that absolutely adds NOTHING to the overall quality of the site.
> 
> Of course, that's only MY opinion, and you DO know what they say...................



Right. And heaven help us when someone posts something that you don't find to be of "quality for the site" Trobinett.

I, on the other hand, feel that this information goes far beyond quality for this site. And I personally feel that this information and history should span far across the globe.

We only have so much time Trobinett. You just don't seem to get it. Perhaps you smile now at the thought of 3-6 years, but how will you feel when the time is finally upon you? That is, you, me, and the rest of the entire World.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 8, 2007)

Immanuel Velikovsky, the psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, explained how the now-extinct mammoths froze on the spot, around 10,000 years ago, in Siberia, with buttercups clenched between their teeth. What freezing phenomenon could have taken place to cause such a sudden change in grazing habitat from a temperate pastoral climate to that of a frozen wilderness - instantly?

How could coal deposits have been formed in Antarctica, where the climate is far too cold to sustain woodland? How could fossilised palm trees have once grown in the icy climate of Spitzbergen? Common sense told Velikovsky that the Earth, at some time in the past, must have tilted on its axis.

Areas on the warmer equator repositioned themselves as the poles and the geographic poles likewise became repositioned at the equator. It made sense to Velikovsky. But, like the physician, modern "orthodox" science and common sense always seem to be at odds with each other. They preferred instead to imagine that Velikovsky was simply mad, and they, in the way that "orthodox" science does to those whose ideas differ from those of the day, set out to destroy him and everything he worked for.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 8, 2007)

Giant beavers almost three meters long, sloths which used to feed on trees while resting on their colossal thick tails and weighing in at more than three tons while standing more than six meters high when prancing on their rear legs; they all died during these inexorable events. 

R. Dale Guthrie of the Institute of Arctic Biology ("Big Disasters," _Readers Digest_) discovered that around 12,000 years ago the fauna and flora of Alaska were completely different from today. In his own words he stated that, "The way these animals died must have been disastrous. The animals lived in a totally different environment. Only in this way can you define the exotic hotchpotch of hyenas, mammoths, sabre-toothed tigers, camels, rhinoceroses, deer with huge antlers, and saiga antelopes. Then it became ice-cold and they suffered massive extinction."

More than a hundred years ago the well-known zoologist Alfred Wallace (Big Disasters) wrote: "From a zoological point of view, we are living in an impoverished World in which the utmost colossal, wild and peculiar sorts of animals have recently disappeared."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 8, 2007)

Professor Hapgood (_The Path of the Pole_, 1970) wrote the following about the events of almost 12,000 years ago: "Everywhere in Alaska there is proof of an unprecedented severe atmospheric turmoil. Although some of the animals weighing a couple of tons, they were simply torn apart and spread like straws on the land. The piles of bones are mixed with trees, which were also jumbled and torn apart. The whole is covered with a fine layer of frozen dust."

As for those enormous animals, we note that North America and Europe were inhabited by great game animals fully as varied and even more impressive than those of modern East Africa. A partial list includes elephants, two of the four species of which exceeded modern elephants in size. The tall imperial mammoth of the Great Plains stood 14 feet high at the shoulders. Throughout the forest, mastodons browsed in great herds. Horses abounded, one as large as a modern draught horse. There were seven species of buffalo, and one was an enormous beast with a horn spread of 14 feet. The musk ox, woolly rhinoceros, great ground sloth, bear, wild pig, camel, and giant beaver also abounded.

When you read this, you immediately know that fierce powers have created this massive grave during these events. Tens of millions of animals and people suffered an instantaneous death, caused by floods, earthquakes, huge storms and an instantaneous setting-in of a glacial period. The whole Earth was staggering. In the New World more than seventy big mammal species were lost. And it was all at once! To put this in the right perspective: during the preceding 300,000 years, not more than 20 types had become extinct.


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## Care4all (Jul 8, 2007)

mattskramer said:


> Come on already.  Give me a specific date when the earth will be destroyed, as we know it so that I can get ready.



mayans say 12-12-2012, something will change, sun's polar shift?, alignment of all planets also on this date?, and talk of an earth polar shift on this date causing great earthquake?, moving in to a new dimension, the Age of Aquarious....?  or something like that....?

hahaha!  that's the best i can do to answer your inquiry!

care


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

The same pattern of signs of the last Pole-Shift are repeated throughout the World. Alaska and Siberia were hit the hardest. Hundreds of thousands of animals froze to death on site and were preserved, so that after more than 10,000 years they could still feed huskies. These quantities only headline the first of apocalyptic numbers that suffered annihilation during the last Pole-Shift.

Thousands of volcanoes must have exploded, because volcanic ash is frequently discovered around the frozen animals. Skeletons of mastodons found standing up were discovered in the San Pedro Valley, supported by huge piles of volcanic ash. Most of Europe and the land that became known as the "New World", was covered with an ice cap several kilometers thick. 

When the Earth's crust slid, it landed on a moderate zone. Then the big melting started. Ten million cubic kilometers of ice were reduced to water. It streamed into the seas and oceans and made the water level rise more than 160 meters. Low coastlines were flooded again. Millions of liters of water evaporated and fell as snow at the poles. As a result the water level sank back. In northern Florida one finds marine sediments up to a height of at least seventy-five meters. Areas that are now barren, like the Sahara, were at that time full of life and green with vegetation due to the abundant rainfall.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

These pole reversals can be proven with the help of pyrogenic rock. Geological data show that reversals have taken place countless times in the past. Many scientists still do not have the slightest idea about the mechanism that causes them. It is a riddle for them why the previous poles can be found in several places - for instance, a long time ago the central point of the North Pole was in China and, at one point, in Madagascar. Solidified lava manifesting a reversed magnetism, hundreds of thousands of times stronger than the magnetic field of the Earth, proves this. It also reveals the character of the powers that were active at that time, as extensive lava streams are to be found wherever reversed polarities can be detected.


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## Said1 (Jul 14, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> These Pole reversals can be proven with the help of pyrogenic rock. Geological data show that reversals have taken place countless times in the past. Many scientists still do not have the slightest idea about the mechanism that causes them. It is a riddle for them why the previous Poles can be found in several places - for instance, a long time ago the central point of the North Pole was in China and, at one point, in Madagascar. Solidified lava manifesting a reversed magnetism, hundreds of thousands of times stronger than the magnetic field of the Earth, proves this. It also reveals the character of the powers that were active at that time, as extensive lava streams are to be found wherever reversed polarities can be detected.



It's that Acme magnet Wile E. Coyote was playing around with. There is no other logical explanation, but the scientific community is to embarrassed to admit that's what's causing it the poles to shift.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

It is evident in ancient maps that you can admire in several libraries around the World that the ancients dealt with an excellent time chronology. The Mercator map from 1569 gives an accurate picture of how the coasts of Antarctica must have looked without ice. Mercator must have based this map on much older documents, made before the previous Pole-Shift! This actually means that the inherited knowledge must be at least 12,000 years old. Without an exact time chronology and a fairly accurate clock, you cannot make such a map. The required technique is based on having knowledge of the meridians.

Either way, the Mercator map gives an impressive look at what Antarctica looked like before the last Pole-Shift engulfed the World.

During the last Pole-Shift there was a time of sudden imposition of a different density structure in the outer shell of the northern hemisphere due to the large masses of ice that had built up on the continents, the large masses of water that had been removed from the ocean basins to build those ice sheets, and the mass of a subcontinental fragment that sank into the area of the ocean at that time. The mechanism for a Pole-Shift from such conditions is similar to an explanation of how the Earth's axis of rotation can be shifted by the sinking of cold, dense slabs of mantle in subduction zones such as those surrounding the Pacific Ocean.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

Said1 said:


> It's that Acme magnet Wile E. Coyote was playing around with. There is no other logical explanation, but the scientific community is to embarrassed to admit that's what's causing it the poles to shift.



As is many times the case. Ego gets in the way of most progression.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

As geoscientists probe ever more deeply into the "record in the rocks", their findings will oftentimes coincide with many Pole-Shift explanations. For example, a recent study of the conentrations of calcium and sulfate ions in the annual ice layers cored from the Greenland ice sheet provides an extensive record of explosive, high-sulfur producing volcanism that shows a strong correlation with disturbances and eruptive events within the last 50,000 years.

The sulfate-ion value in the GISP2 ice-core record is one of the largest of the 838 volcanic signals in the entire ice-layer sample series. And this signal, representing enormous volcanism somewhere in the Northern Hemisphere, is followed by around 1,000 years of calcium-ion peaks that are a primary indicator of continental dust. 

In addition, a volcanic ash layer found in a different (GRIP) ice core from Greenland and believed to have originated from an area of explosive volcanism in southern Iceland, is thought to be created at a time that coincides with one of the previous two Pole-Shifts as well.

The GISP2 ice-core record is intriguing. It provides evidence of a period of significant volcanism that occurred somewhere in the Northern Hemisphere at the same time that a second period of disturbances were underway. The disturbances were so strong that "small channels" were produced through many of the lands.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

Perhaps most significant of all the ice-core records of volcanism is the finding of a discrete and pronounced record of well-above-baseline peaks in volcanic signals for the period between 12,657 and 11,285 B.P. This broad and strong peak in sulfate concentrations describes a significant period of explosive eruptions that matches almost exactly with the final period of the existence of Atlantis. The ash layer found in the Greenland GRIP ice core, corresponds to a great eruption that deposited an Ash Zone, a significant marker horizon in North Atlantic sediments. A fitting epitaph for the end of Atlantis!

Many current scientists feel that they have no time to waste on such problematic research. They think that they've got explanations for everything they see on the ocean floor right now, as explained by their theory of sea-floor spreading. That's not completely correct, as evidenced by a review published in _Nature_ (April 11, 1996, P. 480) on "anomalous" findings in the Romanche fracture zone near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge in the equatorial Atlantic. Here, sediments 140 million years old lie in part of the Atlantic Ocean where the crust is only a fraction of that age. That's not supposed to happen, according to the theory of sea-floor spreading, because such sediments are supposed to have been conveyed to the edges of the ocean basin by now, as new oceanic lithosphere is continuously formed at the mid-ocean ridge and pushed toward the continents on either side.

And so how are many geoscientists explaining this one? They are questioning their assumption as to the stability of the transverse ridge where the sediments were found, and they are proposing instead that the transform faults that would normally convey-away the ridge sediments must have somehow "jumped" around, entrapping the old sediments near the ridge crest. The review article states flatly that "this discovery cannot be explained by conventional plate tectonics", and goes on to say that "the exitence of transverse ridges has long puzzled Earth scientists." Their morphology is complex and resists generalization. Rocks retrieved from these ridges vary from upper mantle to shallow-water carbonates, and this variability is taken as an indication of the intense vertical tectonism that can occur.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

The point here is that there is much that we don't yet know about tectonism on the ocean floors, and current interpretations may be just as capable of "jumping around" as transformed faults might be. There's an old geologist saying, "If I hadn't known what I was looking for, I wouldn't have found it." It is hoped that some marine geoscientists will look through the existing data on the North Atlantic Sea floor in the vicinity of the Sargasso Sea to see if there is any evidence for a land mass that foundered after breaking up as well as for a volcanic upheaval that helped cause this cataclysm.

The famous marine geologist, F.P. Shepard, argued that, "something in the nature of faulting accounts for the bulk of continental slopes", and he noted that "south of Cape Hatteras there is a radical change in the character of the continental slope. One or more broad steps are found leading down to the deep ocean floor. Also, the base of the continental slope is no longer bordered by a continental rise. Instead, the steep slope beyond the terraces ends in a trough. From the latitude of South Carolina to the Bahamas there is one principal terrace, called the Blake Plateau...It has long been known that this plateau had little if any sediment cover. Outside the plateau there is an abrupt drop with a slope described as 50 percent in some profiles."

This description of the ocean floor lying to the west sounds like a step-faulted continental shelf, bounding the western margin of a large down-dropped area that is now the deep Atlantic ocean floor.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 14, 2007)

K.D. Klitgord and H. Schouten, who analyzed plate motions of the central Atlantic, say that "long periods of constant spreading in the central Atlantic were interrupted by short periods of plate motion and adjustment."

Some of these short periods were possibly times of emergence of portions of the ocean floor. An oncoming period of plate motion would seem to coincide with the previous Pole-Shifts.

Klitgord and Schouten conclude that, "throughout this history it is the tectonic activity at either end of the Central Atlantic spreading center, the Iberian-Grand Banks segment, or the Gulf of Mexico-Caribbean segment, that has the most important geologic ramifications."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

During the days just before the last Pole-Shift occurred, the skies crackled with blinding lightning, sheets of ice were creeping down from the poles, and Humans had to move closer to the Equator. Some of the caves that many Ancient Humans prayed in have been found today and modern day Humans are stunned by their contemplative beauty and artistic numinosity.

And it's easy to see why the people were scared back then. Because when the Pole-Shift finally took place, the Earth began to shake, the weather began to change, and our ancestors began to feel very afraid. The wind was coming from the wrong direction and was too strong and fitful, and the lightning was so intense that it almost can't be put into words. They saw portents in the sky, and many other strange things.

Great winds swept all through the land, the Earth shook and writhed, the weather became unpredictable, the light changed, and the shadows in the great stone temples moved. During that time, there was tremendous pressure in our ancestor's heads and bodies, and many of them died when their inner organs just gave out and filled with blood. A new electromagnetic field settled on the surface of the planet and the energy from the Sun seemed to be lost.

Only remnants of species survived this great shifting, and the Earth experienced many years of dim light because volcanic dust particles blocked the rays of the Sun. The new poles began to collect ice during months of continual rain, and water levels rose all over the Planet.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

This World cataclysm scenario, and only this one, is able to explain in one go tens of riddles concerning physics, biology, geology and so forth. It proves that the center of the poles can be situated in other places on Earth, and explains why petrified remnants of tropical woods have been found at the South Pole; why twelve thousand years ago so many species like mammoths and sabre-toothed tigers became extinct; why large parts of Europe and the United States were under millions of tons of ice thousands of years ago; why frozen mammoths, with food still in their mouths, were found in Siberia; why skeletons of whales can be found in the Himalayas; why there are so many myths all around the World of a huge catastrophe that almost completely destroyed Humankind. In short: one theory answers many questions.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

The following quote painfully reminds us of the last Pole-Shift:

*(Atlantis, Berlitz, 1984):*

"The face of the heavens had darkened. Nobody knew what was going to happen. Suddenly a fire from Earth flew into the air, a rain of fire and ashes fell down and boulders and trees were thrown down. People got torn apart and buried in the sand and the sean. In one big, sudden and forceful flood the Big Celestial Snake was kidnapped from the Sky. The Sky fell and the Earth sunk, when the four gods, the Bacabs, rose and took care of the destruction of the World."

*In the sixteenth century Diego De Landa wrote the following about this happening:*

"Amongst the large quantities of gods that the Maya used to worship, there were four that were called Bacabs. They said that they were four brothers that God, after creating the World, placed on its four corners to brace heaven in order not to fall. They also said that these Bacabs escaped when a flood destroyed the World."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

Similar reports can be found everywhere in the World. The Avestic writings tell about the disaster that hit their paradise, Airyana Vaejo. From a mild climate it was torpedoed to an ice-cold place.

*(The Arctic Home in the Vedas, Tilak, page 340):*

_"Then Angra Mainyu, who is filled with death, created an enemy...Snow is falling everywhere in thick layers; this is the most horrifying of all plagues..."_ 

Furthermore, we read in their scriptures that this terrible cold was predicted and that people were advised to protect themselves from it:

_"Therefore make a var...Bring it to a representative of each species. Put there all sorts of plants and the juiciest fruit, the most beautiful and sweet smelling. All these things and creatures will not die, as long as they stay in the var."_


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

The Toba Natives scriptures tell about a huge cold accompanied by darkness. According to them the disaster was sent because the Earth has to change as it gets filled with people. In order to save the World the population has to be depleted. 

All these myths prove that a phenomenal disaster has taken place. Again and again, we find identical motifs in them: stars falling from the sky, titanic earthquakes, a huge flood and a terrible cold. Prophets predicted the disaster under the orders of God; Noah-characters built the necessary arks. Their descendants populated the World again. 

Such stories were written down to warn us. A long time ago these Worldwide myths were conceived to convey these apocalyptic visions. They will shortly become a terrifying reality. The memories from the past will then haunt our minds.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

This gruesome period left deep traces all over the World. In many places people feared that earthquakes could be the foreboding of a new catastrophe. 

On the west of the river Volga in Russia, the Mari believed that the Earth was resting on one horn of a big bull. They believed that every movement of the bull could cause an Earthquake. At the moment the head of the beast would tilt, the sky would seem to come down and the Earth would fall into the ocean. 

In a distant place, in Machu Picchu, the Incas had a settlement of young women. They were to populate the World again after a new disaster. 

In Iceland a myth starts with the terrifying prophecy of a visionary: "The Sun gets black, the land sinks into the sea, The hot stars will tumble over the sea..."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

A Pole-Shift is not a "good" natured phenomenon. Let's make it clear. Just about all civilizations in the World have myths and legends describing how horrible it was.

The Chinese and the Hindus, as well as the Ancient Mayans, have numerous other stories about devastating events on our planet.

*According to the Nordic Lapp's cosmogonist story, almost all Human Beings died when hurricanes and a huge tidal wave overpowered the World:*

"The very inner core of the Earth was shaking. The upper layers of the Earth had disappeared. Many people were buried and died. And Jubmel, the Lord of the Sky, sent his terrible anger in the shape of red, blue and green fire snakes. People covered their faces and children were screaming with fear. The wrathful god spoke: "I will turn the World upside down. I will see to it that the sea becomes a mountainous wall, which I will fling upon you, wicked children of the Earth."

Such a description tells exactly what happened during the previous Pole-Shift: earthquakes, mountains that rose and sank, lightning, a wall of water, the Sun that disappeared, and so on.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

A Pole-Shift is not a "good" natured phenomenon. Let's make it clear. Just about all civilizations in the World have myths and legends describing how horrible it was.

The Chinese and the Hindus, as well as the Ancient Mayans, have numerous other stories about devastating events on our planet.

*According to the Nordic Lapp's cosmogonist story, almost all Human Beings died when hurricanes and a huge tidal wave overpowered the World:*

_"The very inner core of the Earth was shaking. The upper layers of the Earth had disappeared. Many people were buried and died. And Jubmel, the Lord of the Sky, sent his terrible anger in the shape of red, blue and green fire snakes. People covered their faces and children were screaming with fear. The wrathful god spoke: "I will turn the World upside down. I will see to it that the sea becomes a mountainous wall, which I will fling upon you, wicked children of the Earth."_

Such a description tells exactly what happened during the previous Pole-Shift: earthquakes, mountains that rose and sank, lightning, a wall of water, the Sun that disappeared, and so on.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

These appalling events left a profound impression on the few survivors. They had been the desperate spectators, watching helplessly as immeasurable tides piled up and changed the Earth into a huge battlefield. At the same time the sky showed an immense spectacle, stars and planets suddenly changing their courses. The Moon and the Sun moved with jerks.

Through the polar lights, radiating from the Sunstorms, it looked as if the atmosphere was on fire. The reversal of the poles is so devastating and frightening, that, in short, the most indescribable fear may not be horrible enough to compare with this nightmare. That is why there are so many written traditions throughout the whole World in which a World cataclysm is described.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

You will find further evidence of the previous Pole-Shift in the last chapter of the Apocalypse of John from the Bible. He described in it the New Jerusalem, the "holy city" of God, after the Last Judgement. The city is a perfect cube whose foundations are decorated with twelve precious and semi-precious stones. 

In fact these stones are the same jewels that the high priests were supposably wearing when "God gave them the specifications of the Tabernacle, during the Exodus with Moses". The plastron (torso body armor) was carried on top of a colorful garment. The stones on the plastron represent the twelve tribes of Israel, but were associated with the twelve signs of the Zodiac. 

*The twelve stones and their corresponding Zodiacal signs are the following:*

*1.* Amethyst (*Aries*)
*2.* Aquamarine (*Taurus*)
*3.* Chrysoprase (*Gemini*)
*4.* Topaz (*Cancer*)
*5.* Beryl (*Leo*)
*6.* Chrysolite (*Virgo*)
*7.* Sardius (*Libra*)
*8.* Sardonyx (*Scorpio*)
*9.* Emerald (*Sagittarius*)
*10.* Chalcedony (*Capricorn*)
*11.* Sapphire (*Aquarius*)
*12.* Jasper (*Pisces*)

And now we arrive at a shocking conclusion, because in John's list the stones are mentioned in _reversed_ order. Another special proof of a Pole-Shift, because after the reversal of 9792 BC the Zodiac moved in the opposite direction!


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

There is no doubt that the Sun was playing the main role in these events. During the previous catastrophe it moved restlessly on the horizon. Everywhere in the World you will find this theme. 

During their observance of the Winter Solstice,the priests of Machu Picchu fastened a mystical cord to a big pillar. In this way they believed that they could prevent the Sun from leaving its path and spreading death and destruction. They thought that a controlled Sun could not cause a new tidal wave.

In Stonehenge, as in all prehistoric Europe, huge stone buildings were raised in honor of the Sun. They are standing there as a magical measure against a new catastrophe. 

Through mesmerizing formulas our ancestors thought that the movement of the Sun could be kept under control. But unfortunately, we are soon to suffer the same type of fate that they did.

The sky will fall, the Earth will be broken and torn apart by earthquakes. And huge waves will crash down destroying everything. So it is written in the myths of countless cultures, because it has already happened many times before.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 15, 2007)

We read in the scriptures about the super traumatizing events of almost 12,000 years ago: fire, lightning, hurricanes, tidal waves, volcanic eruptions, a black sky, famine, cold, and so on. The poor unfortunate people who experienced these events had to have been so shocked, it dominated their whole life. They passed warnings on to their children and great-grandchildren, who in turn passed them on down to the next generations.

In the center of all this are the stories about the survivors. And these stories contain codes so that their descendants can prepare themselves for this horror of all horrors. And their descendants happen to be us.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 19, 2007)

Ok so now you all know alot about the history of the Earth in relation to the two previous Pole-Shifts that occurred on our planet.

Now, I would like to go into a little more about what exactly happens when a Pole-Shift actually takes place. 

This is important because many people do not know about the catastrophic events that can and do occur during a Pole-Shift, so I hope that the following info will help give them more perspective.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 19, 2007)

Pole-Shifts are responsible for causing rapid changes, with dramatic alterations of geography and localized areas of destruction due to earthquakes and tsunamis. These changes can take place in weeks, days, or even hours. Resulting in a variety of different scenarios.

The results of a shift occurring results in major climate changes for most of the earth's surface, as areas that were formerly equatorial become temperate and areas that were temperate become either more equatorial or more arctic.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 19, 2007)

A Pole-Shift is the ultimate disaster! Enormous tidal waves (5 miles high) will roll across the continents as oceans become displaced from their basins. Hurricane winds of hundreds of miles per hour will scour the planet. Earthquakes greater than any ever measure will change the shape of the continents. Volcanoes (all of them, and some new ones!) will pour out huge lava flows, along with poisonous gases and choking ash. 

Climates will change instantly, and the geography of the globe will be radically altered. If the pole shift is less than a full 180 degrees, the polar icecaps will melt rapidly, raising sea levels, while new icecaps will begin to build. 

A large numbers of organisms, including much of the human race, will be decimated or even become extinct, with signs of their existence hidden under thick layers of sediment and debris, or at the bottom of newly established seas.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 19, 2007)

Pole-Shifts cause cataclysmic upheavals, which can deluge entire continents, make mountains out of molehills and sea beds, raze civilizations to rubble and humanity to recurrent grubbing around with stones. 

Things that can result from the effects of Pole-Shifts can be viruses or bacteria (from all of the dead bodies), weather (storms, floods, hurricanes), geographical upheavals within the Earth, and disturbances from the outer environment of space. 

A Pole-Shift destabilizes the Earth's rotational balance, causing slippage of all or much of earth's outer crust around the earth's core, which retains its axial orientation.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2007)

The Pole-Shift will most likely start with a rumble so low as to be inaudible, growing, throbbing, then fuming into a thundering roar, the earthquake starts...only it's not like any earthquake in recorded history. In California, the mountains shake like ferns in a breeze, the mighty Pacific rears back and piles up into a mountain of water more than two miles high, then starts its race eastward.

With the force of a thousand armies the wind attacks, ripping, shredding everything in its supersonic bombardment. The unbelievable mountain of Pacific sea water follows the wind eastward, burying Los Angeles and San Francisco as if they were but grains of sand. Nothing, but nothing, stops the relentless, overwhelming onslaught of wind and ocean. Across the continent the thousand-mile-per-hour wind wreaks its unholy vengeance, everywhere, mercilessly, unceasingly.

Within three hours, the fantastic wall of water moves across the continent, burying the wind-ravaged land under two miles of seething water coast-to-coast. In a fraction of a day all vestiges of civilization are gone, and the great cities ...are nothing but legends. Barely a stone is left where millions walked just a few hours before...

...Antarctica and Greenland, with their ice caps, now rotate around the earth in the Torrid Zone; and the fury of wind and inundation marches on for six days and nights. During the sixth day, the oceans start to settle in their new homes, running off the high ground. On the seventh day, the horrendous rampage is over. The Arctic ice age is ended, and a new stone age begins.

The Bay of Bengal basin, just east of India is now at the North Pole. The Pacific Ocean, just west of Peru, is at the South Pole. Greenland and Antarctica, now rotating equatorially in the Torrid Zone find their ice caps dissolving madly in the tropical heat. ..New ice caps begin to form in the new polar areas. Greenland and Antarctica emerge with verdant, tropical foliage.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2007)

As the shift approaches, things will begin to go out of balance, and the magnetic field will begin to fluctuate significantly over a very short period of time (about 3 - 6 months). This would be like a full moon getting bigger and bigger every day. 

First, as the field weakens, so does what many believe is the natural navigatory force for many living creatures. Studies have shown that whales, dolphins, birds and even molluscs and mice use the geomagnetic field as a guiding device. Some, like mice, use it as a directional guide; while cetaceans use the total geomagnetic field as a map, not for directional information, as we would use a compass, but by navigating the contours of magnetic "hills and valleys" in a field that is anything but uniform. 

Without it, whales and dolphins would beach in record numbers, birds and other creatures would be 'lost', unable to find their home.

The effect of a magnetic reversal on humans is less known. Confusion might reign, and some theorize a complete 'reboot' of the human mind - the brain IS known to contain magnetite - might occur. However, as the field decreases (before a 'reversal'), one could surmise what may happen by looking at a recent experiment by Dr. Valerie Hunt. Hunt had a room constructed in which the magnetic field intensity could be varied. The following, as spelled out in her book, ''Infinite Mind'', was observed: 

When "the magnetism was decreased, gross in-coordination occurred. The entire neurological integrating mechanism was thrown off. Subjects could not balance their bodies; they had difficulty touching finger to nose or performing simple coordinated movements. They lost kinaesthetic awareness."

Could our bodies adjust as a much more gradual, long-term but worldwide decrease in the magnetic field intensity occurred? That may be doubtful, and if so then at what point near the conclusion of this pre-reversal descent would such in-coordination sweep over the human race? It's entirely possible.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2007)

During the coming Pole-Shift, as the Earth and its magnetosphere ploughs through the solar wind, the charged particles are diverted around a 'shell' created by the geomagnetic field. Without that field, high-energy particles -- including dangerous gamma-, and X-rays -- would penetrate completely, to the surface. If television or radio were still in use at that point in the future, transmissions would become impossible. Electric power grids would be off-line indefinitely. 

Gamma rays, because they are so penetrating, can have severe effects on the cells of humans and other animals. As with cosmic rays, which also bombard the Earth at all times, gamma rays are known as ionising radiation, which can cause a host of problems from cell death to genetic mutations (leading to cancer), in any living thing.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2007)

There will be a Pole-Shift. This will include the kind of violence that is normally associated with pole shifts, the continents going up and down, huge tidal waves that are 100 feet high, the entire south pole moving to the Equator and these kind of things.

An earth crust displacement, as the words suggest, is a movement of the ENTIRE outer shell of the Earth over its inner layers. If you remove the peel from an orange and then reattach it to the fruit you can visualize the possibility of the peel moving over the inner layers. The Earth's crust, according to Charles Hapgood, can similarly change its position over the inner layers. When it does the globe experiences climatic change. The climatic zones (polar, temperate and tropical) remain the same because the sun still shines on the earth from the same angle in the sky. From the perspective of people on the Earth at the time, it appears as the sky is falling. In reality it is the Earth's crust shifting to another location. Some land moves towards the tropics. Others shift, with the same movement, towards the poles. Yet others may escape such great changes in latitude. 

The consequence of such a movement of the entire outer shell of the Earth is catastrophic. Throughout the world massive earthquakes shake the land and enormous tidal waves crash into and over the continental shelf. As the old ice caps leave the polar zones they melt, raising the ocean level higher and higher. Everywhere, and by whatever means, people will seek higher ground to avoid an ocean in upheaval.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2007)

Like it or not, a Polar/Earth shift is bound to happen again, heralding in a new ice age for some parts of the world. Are you ready, both on a physical and spiritual level, for massive earth quakes, volcanos, tsunamis, and a catastrophic Polar-Shift? 

During a Pole-Shift, The solar events usually last several days, and during that time a near alignment of the mountainous "ring of fire" with a solar/lunar tidal concurrance might easily occur.

A Pole-Shift would displace the Earth's crust in around the inner mantle, resulting in crustal rock's being exposed to magnetic fields of a different direction.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 20, 2007)

During the Pole-Shift, suddenly the air will be still. The cicadas will fall silent. Moments later the ground beneath you will start to rumble and shake. The intensity of the quake will begin to increase and many people will simply be knocked off of their feet. Fierce winds will race over the entire Earth. Many people will feel as if they are going to fly off the face of the planet. Gravity will seem different, the magnetic field of the Earth will be distorted, and reality will be hard to grasp.

The sky and clouds will be boiling above the violently swaying trees. Birds will be tossed around chaotically as they struggle to fly. Shadows will darken and lengthen, and people will watch the Sun speeding across the sky to the horizon.The day will have turned to twilight. In a matter of seconds the Sun will have shifted from its high noon position to just a few degrees above the horizon in the southwest. A bitter, cold wind blows in... and it begins to snow in many areas of the Earth.

People at this time will also be experiencing violent lightning, wind, and fire storms. Gigantic tidal waves and climbing water will assault the coasts. Volcanoes will spew ash far into the sky, and because of the current population of the World, it will be a time like never experienced by Human Beings before.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Here is a report done by a scientist named Hugh Auchincloss Brown which tells of the coming pole shift and what me might expect:* 

"One day a (Pole-Shift) will topple the Earth's spin. This will cause floods of enormous proportions, Earthquakes, and other phenomena." 

"A particularly ominous omen for the Earth's future will be the wobble in the planets spin. During this time, New York will end up submerged underwater, as well as most of the rest of the World. The Polar areas will be the least effected." 

"This future World cataclysm will wipe out most of the Earth's population in the same manner as the mammoths of prehistoric times were destroyed." 

"The growing South Pole ice cap has become a stealthy, silent, relentless force of nature. It is the result of energy created by it's eccentric rotation. The ice cap is the creeping peril, the deadly menace, and the divinely ordained executioner of our civilization."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Hugh Auchincloss Brown:*

"If we procrastinate and do nothing, the Flood will occur when the present Polar areas move away from the Earth's axis of spin (Pole Shift) beyond a certain distance. The Earth will tip over like an overloaded canoe, towed in a circle behind a power boat, in consequence of the wobble of the Earth and the resulting force of the rotation of the present South Pole ice cap and it's constantly increasing weight." 

"The Earth of today may be compared to a top-heavy, dying out, wobbling, spinning top, geting ready to fall over on it's side." 

"The Centrifugal force of the eccentric rotation of the Great South Pole ice cap tends to careen the globe. The force of rotation will roll the Earth over and move Antarctica and it's ice cap almost directly under the Sun because in due time it wil neutralize and overcome the Centrifugal force of the Earth's bulge." 

"During the reeling period, the Earth will experience another of its recurrent great deluges when most living things perish."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Hugh Auchincloss Brown:*

"Following the next careen of the globe, the present continent of Antarctica can reasonably be expected to become the center of a land hemisphere, because of the Centrifugal force of rotation which will be created by its weight and speed of motion." 

"This transient force will not only pull Antarctica but also its surrounding Ocean floors will be pulled upward, and they will be kept above Sea Level, thus creating new land areas." 

"The area of the globe now occupied by the Arctic ocean will probably become the center of a water hemisphere. What is now Northern Siberia, Northern Canada, and Northern Alaska, will probably become parts of the submerged ocean floor." 

"During the period of the next Great Deluge, a general chaos involving re-adjustments of land and water areas will take place. Some existing mountains will be raised, some will be lowered, and new ones will be formed."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Hugh Auchincloss Brown:*

"Earthquakes and volcanic activity will occur as the Earth re-adjusts itself and becomes stable. The oceans will increase in depth as the ice cap melts. Later on, new ice caps will form at the new Polar locations." 

"Greenland and Antarctica will be two of the safest places to be when the shift occurs. Also during the shift, Brazil will roll to the South Pole and the Phillipine Islands will become the land area that is nearest the North Pole." 

*NOTE:* 

Hugh Auchincloss Brown has been compared to a modern day "Noah", and like the story of Noah goes, very few people are listening to Brown's warnings.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Here is more info from a researcher named Immanuel Velikovsky on what will happen when the Poles of the Earth begin to shift upon their axis: *

"Let us assume that this is what would happen if the axis of the Earth shifted or tilted...." 

"At that moment an Earthquake will make the globe shudder. Air and Water would continue to move through inertia: Hurricanes would sweep the Earth and the seas would rush over continents, carrying gravel and sand and marine animals and casting them on the land." 

" Heat would be developed, rocks would melt, Volcanoes would erupt, lava would flow from fissures in the ruptured ground and cover vast areas, Mountains would spring up from the plains and would travel and climb on the shoulders of other mountains, causing faults and rifts. Lakes would be tilted and emptied, rivers would change their beds, large land areas with all their inhabitants would slip under the sea." 

"Forests would burn, and the Hurricanes and wild seas would rest them on the ground on which they grew and pile them, branch and root, in huge heaps. Seas would turn into deserts, their waters rolling away. And if a change in the velocity of the diurnal rotation, slowing it down, should accompany the shifting of the axis, the water confined to the equatorial oceans by Centrifugal Force would retreat to the poles, and high tides and Hurricanes would rush from Pole to Pole."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Immanuel Velikovsky:*

"Reindeer and Seals would be carried to the tropics and desert lions into the Arctic, moving from the equator up to the mountain ridges of the Himalayas and down the African jungles. Also crumbled rocks torn from splintering mountains would be scattered over large distances, and herds of animals would be washed from the plains of Siberia." 

"The axis would change the climate of every place, leaving corals in new foundland and elephants in Alaska. Fig trees would be left in Northern Greenland and luxuriant forests in Antarctica." 

"In the event of a rapid shift of the axis, many species of animals on land and in the sea would be destroyed, and civilizations, if any, would be reduced to ruins."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Here is even more info about the coming Pole Shift from another researcher named Chan Thomas. It is filled with solid advice as well as information as to what we might all expect when the changes start to occur:*

"During the next Pole Shift, there would be great destruction. With a rumble so low as to be inaudible, growing, throbbing, then fuming into a thundering roar. The Earthquake starts...only it is not like any Earthquake ever recorded in history." 

"In California the mountains shake like ferns in a breeze, the mighty Pacific rears back and piles up into a mountain of water more than two miles high, then starts it's race eastward." 

"With the force of a thousand armies the wind attacks, ripping, shredding everything in its supersonic bombardment." 

"The unbelievable mountain of Pacific seawater follows the wind eastward, burying Los Angeles and San Francisco as if they were but grains of sand." 

"Across the continent the thousand - mile - per hour wind wreaks its vengeance, everywhere, mercilessly, unceasingly. Every living thing is ripped into shreds while being blown across the countryside: and the Earthquake leaves no place untouched."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Chan Thomas:*

"In many places, the Earths molten sub-layer breaks through and spreads a sea of white hot liquid fire to add to the holocaust. Within three hours the fantastic wall of water moves across the continent, burying the wind ravaged land under 2 miles of seething water coast to coast." 

"In a fraction of a day all vestiges of civilization are gone, and the great cities, Los Angelos, San Francisco, Dallas, New York, are nothing but legends." 

"Barely a stone is left where millions walked just a few hours before. A few lucky ones who managed to find shelter from the screaming wind on the lee side of molten fire break through the quaking valleys below. The raging waters follow piling higher and higher, steaming over the molten Earth-fire and rising almost to their feet, only great mountains can withstand the cataclysmic onslaught." 

"North America is not alone in her death throes. Central America suffers the same cannonade-wind, Earth-fire and inundation. South America finds the Andes not high enough to stop the cataclysmic violence pounded out by nature in her berserk rage. In less than a day, Ecuador, Peru, and western Brazil are shaken madly by the devastating Earthquake, burned by molten Earth-fire, buried under cubic miles of torrential Pacific seas, and then turned into a frozen hell."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Chan Thomas:*

"Everything freezes. Man, beast, plant, and mud are all rock-hard in less than four hours." 

"Europe cannot escape the onslaught. The raging Atlantic piles higher and higher upon itself, following the screeching wind eastward. The Alps, Pyrenees, Ural and Scandinavian mountains are shaken and heaved higher before the wall of water strikes." 

"Western Africa and the sands of the Sahara vanish in natures wrath, under savage attack by wind an ocean. The area bounded by Congo, South Africa, and Kenya suffers only severe Earthquakes and winds - no innundation. Survivors there marvel at the Sun, standing still in the sky for nearly half a day." 

"Eastern Siberia and the Orient suffer a strange fate indeed, as though a giant subterranean scythe sweeps away the Earths foundations, accompanied by the wind in its screaming symphony of supersonic death and destruction. As the Arctic basin leaves it's Polar home, eastern Siberia, Manchuria, China, and Burma are subjected to the same annihilation as South America."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Chan Thomas:*

"Wind, Earth-fire, innundation and freezing. Jungle animals are shredded to ribbons by the wind, piled onto mountains of flesh and bone, and buried under Avalanches of sea water and mud." 

"Then comes the terrible paralyzing cold. Not man, nor beast, nor plant, nor Earth is left unfrozen in the entire eastern Asian continent, most of which remains below sea level." 

"East of the Urals, in western Siberia, a few lucky people survive the fantastic winds and quakes. Antarctica and Greenland, with their rotating ice caps, now rotate around the Earth in the Torrid Zone; and the fury of the wind and innundation marches on for six days and nights. During the sixth day the oceans start to settle in their new homes, running off the high grounds." 

"On the seventh day, the horrendous rampage is over. The Arctic age is ended, and a new stone age begins."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Chan Thomas:*

"The oceans - the great homogenizers, have laid down another deep layer of mud over the existing strata in the great plains, as exposed in the Grand Canyon, painted Desert and Badlands." 

"The Bay of the Bengal basin, just east of India, is now at the North pole. The Pacific ocean, just west of Peru, is at the South Pole. Greenland and Antarctica, now rotating equatorially in the Torrid Zone, find their ice caps dissolving madly in the tropical heat." 

"Massive walls of water and ice surge toward the oceans, taking everything from mountains to plains and gushing heaving paths, creating immense seasonal moraines." 

"In less than twenty-five years the ice caps are gone, and the oceans around the world rise over two hundred feet with the new-found water. The Torrid Zone will be shrouded in a fog for generations from enormous amounts of moisture poured into the atmosphere by the melting ice caos." 

"New ice caps begin to form in the new Polar areas. Greenland and Antarctica emerge with verdant, tropical foliage."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Chan Thomas:*

"Austrailia becomes the new, unexplored continent in the North Temperate Zone, with only a few handfuls of survivors populating its vastness." 

"New York lies at the bottom of the Atlantic, shattered, melted by Earth-fire and covered by unbelievable amounts of mud. Of San Francisco and Los Angelos, not a trace is left." 

"Egypt emerges from it's Mediterranean innundation new and higher, still the land of the Ages. The commonplace of our times becomes the mysterious Baalbek of the new era. A new era! Yes, the cataclysm has done it's work well. The greatest population regulator of all does once more for man what he refuses to do for himself, and drives the pitiful few who survive into a new stone age." 

"Once more the Earth has shifted it's 60 mile thick shell, with the poles moving almost to the equator in a fraction of a day. Again the atmosphere and oceans, refusing to change direction with the Earth's shell, have wiped out almost all life."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Chan Thomas:*

"When all these events do happen, we will have an Adam and Eve story similar to that of 11,500 years ago, and a Noah story similar to that of 6,500 years ago." 

"The survivors will be driven into another stone age like the old stone age of 11,500 years ago, and the new stone age of 6,500 years ago which followed the last cataclysms." 

"New Polar ice caps will form on the areas moved into the Polar regions. They will not be centered with the axis of rotation, so a new, growing imbalance is created, to be resolved when the Earth, with the entire solar system, passes through another Null Zone." 

"After the big event, less than one percent of all life survives. What do these people have? Neither a pencil to write with nor a shovel to dig with. Their clothing lasts only three months, and so they are forced to use stone tools, skins for clothes, caves for living. They are intelligent enough to do what it takes to survive. It's their offspring that they may not have time to educate who may lose valuable information. And their grandchildren, and their grandchildren's grandchildren." 

"When the next cataclysm occurs, the Indian ocean will become the North Pole. The South Pole will be situated off the coast of Peru. A few lucky people will be high up on Pikes Peak on the eastern side when it happens. They will survive the holocaust. The highest survival probability is the triangle in southeast Asia. That area will rotate north and east. It won't have it's environment changed much."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Here is some info from a man named Adam Barber who is a researcher and who has come up with his own theory as to what will happen when the Poles begin to shift...* 

"The next shift causing a Great Flood will occur in any year within the next fifty years, maybe even NEXT year but any year within the next 50." 

"The gyroscopic forces that will cause the Shift are increasing in intensity daily, and as soon as these become as great as the power of the North and South magnetic fields that hold the axis in line, then the Great Shift and Flood will occur. Whether this will be next month, or one year, 2, 5, 10, or 20 years from now I cannot ascertain nor calculate, but from the astronomical data at hand, I am certain it will be very soon." 

"After the next Pole Shift, the Sun will rise in the west and set in the east for another 9,000 years." 

"The Shift will commence very gently and a person sitting quietly will merely feel a surge such as when a train starts. The sensation of the surge will continue for perhaps five minutes, during all of which the time the Earth is accelerating in the velocity of the Shift." 

"A person residing at the seashore will have about three or four minutes after the warning bell within which to get into his or her boat." 

"At 1,000 miles inland, perhaps a half-hour or hour, while the person at the seashore will be safe in any ordinary boat, the one inland must have a very sturdy and especially shaped boat, saucer shaped, to withstand the thrust of the oncoming wave, racing at about 2,000 MPH." 

"The wave will continue over the land for about 3,000 miles, so if one were in the center of a continent 6,000 miles across, he or she would fine themselves undisturbed."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Adam Barber:*

"Depending on which side of the Earth one is at the commencement of the Shift, the water will appear to be flowing north or south and in 15 or 20 minutes will appear to flow east and west. This will be because of the curve that the axis makes during the Shift and the corresponding change of direction of the gyroscopic force." 

"Let us visualize the Flood as from an airplane a mile high. The Shift is starting...." 

"The pilot of the airplane notices no change as the air is not noticeably disturbed. He is on alert, however, and notices a commotion in Times Square, New York." 

"Warning bells have been ringing for a quarter of a minute, traffic has come to a stand still, everyone is hurrying to the flood boats, which for a few years had been resting at street corners and on top of buildings." 

*NOTE:* 

Adam is only hoping that the boats will be ready for the people. This will most likely not be the case however.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Adam Barber:*

"The water is beginning to creep over the streets and in 3 or 4 minutes automobiles are completely submerged. In another few minutes, the shift gaining in velocity, the water is forty feet deep, having the appearance of rushing like mad through the city. In fact, however, the Earth is moving and the water is practicly still." 

"A large portion of the people are safely in boats, now floating a few miles from the morning places. Many people refused to heed the warning bells, would not abandon their autos, and perished." 

"Buildings now topple and the boats with water tight coverings which had been on the roofs are fully loaded with people and land in the water with a great splash, jarring some people almost into insensibility. The water is soon 400 feet deep, and the Empire State Building topples over with a splash that can be seen from a plane 100 miles away. What was once a bustling city is now a mass of destroyed buildings and debris under the water." 

"Inland 100 miles, a great wall of water, almost vertical and 75 feet high, rushes toward a city, stirking it with a terrific force and in one blow scatters buildings and sky scrapers like so many match boxes."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Adam Barber:*

"At this inland city people had ample warning and are snugly in round boats or "floating saucers" with sturdy watertight tops withstanding a pressure of 100 feet underwater. These are all moored behind concrete abutments so as not to receive a sudden jar from the onrushing wave." 

"They quickly come to the surface, bumping turned over buildings on the way, and all is quite well, thanks to a rubber ring around the boat, three feet thick, made of old automobile tires." 

"The water on the surface is fairly quiet, although the Earth below is sliding under it at more than 2,000 MPH. No one dares open a door or window as the mountain in the distance may in a few minutes cause a swell that might capsize the boat." Oxygen tanks keep the air in the boats from becoming unbearable." 

"About 1 hour after it started, the Shift has stopped. The peaks no longer come rushing toward us, instead the water begins to flow away from them. It is now safe to open the windows and the mental tension is somewhat eased. Ten days later the water has found its gravitational level."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Adam Barber:*

"During this 10 days, boats on the other side of the World which had been moored on land are now 2,500 miles out at sea, and it is several weeks before they reach land." 

"It will be nearly two years before any substantial crops can be raised in our new location, on account of the salt water injuring the grounds, and during that time food will consist most likely of Agriculture Department produce stored on big ships, such as wheat, rice, dried eggss, beans, ect." 

"In Michigan a great ravine, rivaling the Grand Canyon of the Colorado, is washed out. New York is now under 100 feet of mud and debris and is uninhabitable. Some immense spaces that had been ocean bottom are now wastes of desert. Ocean bottoms near the Equator are now 3,000 miles away from it and are still deeper. Land on the other side of the equator becomes ocean over the new line of the Equator." 

"Slowly, over many years, from the centrifugal force caused by the rotation of the Earth on it's axis, the Poles will again be flattened, and some of the land under water at the new Equator will reappear."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Adam Barber:*

"The dense jungles of South America and Africa are covered over with hundreds of feet of gravel, sand, and soil. Thousands of years later it might be mined as coal by the people then living, just as today we mine coal in Pennsylvania, which was once covered with tropical forests and became the present coal beds as a result of a shift of the Earth and flood about 27,000 years ago." 

"The ice caps at what had been the poles begin breaking up and melting, causing great glaciers similar to these those that swept the Northern United States as a result of previous Shifts of the Earth." 

"On each of the two opposite sides of the Earth, miday between the old poles and the new Equator, there is a spot about 500 miles in diameter which is not materially affected by the Shift. One is at the interior of China and the other in the Atlantic Ocean." 

"A great but peaceful chaos follows. A one-world government which had been previously organized by the United Nations for this catastrophe, supervises the allocation of lands and resources to all alike, joining those of the same tongue as nearly as possible." 

"To return the people to the lands they previously occupied is impossible as in many instances that land is no longer habitatable. As there was only a few minutes warning of the flood, nearly all prisoners perished in it."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*When Emil Sepic (A researcher) was asked, "Did Adam Barber try to convince you that you ought to build a boat?" He replied:* 

"Yes, but I think that's a forlorn hope, because when the water comes charging both ways, there's no boat thats going to withstand that. It just wouldn't amount to a tinker's damn." 

"The best thing is to be as far away from the ocean shores, high up, say around Colorado." 

"The only thing I can do is to watch the Poles at Meridian time every day, like I've been doing, and when it gets bad enough, I'll know where to go." 


*Sepics Theory:* 

"There will be many Earth oscillations before the Shift happens. The Shift will cause the ocean and other waters to overrun the lands at terrific speeds. The waters will come in huge walls from all directions as the Earth is Shifting and finally settling on a new axis." 

"The seasons will change times. Most everything will be washed away. Our cities will be no more. Glaciers will be on the move. A new equator will begin to bulge outwards."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

*Emil Sepic:*

"The old budge will begin to be pressed inwards and gradually disappear. This will cause cracking of the Earth's surface, violent Earthquakes, unheard of bad weather, and many new Volcanoes will come into action." 

"The winds will be violent and the Atmosphere will become cloudy and it will stay cloudy for a long time. The ice caps will be moved out of their places, and the melting will cause the waters to rise and remain higher for some time to come." 

"Those who are fortunate or unfortunate to survive through it all, and there will not be too many, will have to start all over again, with only their bare hands." 

"The most likely period of the year for the next Shift to occur would be in the latter part of June, or the first part of July."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

Sometime between the year 2009-2013, the Earth will be subjected to a huge disaster. The cause: the magnetic field of the Earth will reverse all at once, resulting in an enormous shift of the Earth's crust. Virtually nobody will survive this, and at the same time much of our acquired knowledge will disappear. 

To survive this catastrophe, urgent priorities need to be fixed. Just a small part of the World population will be able to survive a Pole-Shift and the resulting tidal waves, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. And, afterwards, when people are thrust into temperatures of 50 degrees below zero, one doomed scenario changes for another. This paralyzing knowledge tells you what has happened many times before.

This phenomenon awaits the greatest part of the present World population. Regions that have a moderate climate at present were ice-cold thousands of years ago. Because a new Pole-Shift is now going to happen, the Earth will begin turning the other way. The most populated and lowest parts of land will suffer a real slaughter. Almost nobody will survive this catastrophe. In any case, and in many areas, without boats you will have almost no chance at all. Through the vast upheavals of the Pole-Shift, millions of perfect, well-preserved bodies will lie hidden below the ice masses for thousands of years - until they are brutally dislodged by the following Pole-Shift.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

What is awaiting us is so apocalyptic that it is almost beyond imagination. Everything points to almost a complete extinction of Humanity during the coming events, just as most of the large mammals of the past were brought to death. In an all-destroying outburst the wandering Sun will launch  a chain reaction, which will shake our World to its foundations. The sky will fall, the Earth will be broken and torn apart by earthquakes. And huge waves will crash down destroying much of everything. 

The temple complex of Angkor in the jungles of Cambodia appears to be a well-chosen metaphor for the coming Pole-Shift. Each of the five roads leading to the complex is flanked by 108 stone figures, 54 on each side. Every row of figures carries a portion of an enormous Naga snake. It is just as if the "end of our World" as we know it was displayed here, because as Santillana and Von Dechend point out in _Hamlet's Mill_, the figures are pulling the snake. This signifies that the 54 figures are "churning the ocean of milk" (The Milky Way), which means that the snake plays an important role in the catastrophic developments the Earth is bound to encounter.

As we know, Venus passes the star sign Serpens during that fatal period around December 21, 2012. Mythically seen, the Serpent therefore lies at the source of the violent turbulences that will sweep the oceans.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 21, 2007)

After almost 12,000 years, there will soon be a gigantic reversal of the magnetic field of the Sun! When that happens, superflares will escape from the Sun. Trillions of particles will reach the Earth's poles and set them "in flames". And because of the continuous stream of electromagnetism, the magnetic field of our planet will become overcharged. Many electric forces will be generated. As the poles are filled with auroras from falling particles, the inevitable will happen: the Earth's inner electromagnetic field will get overcharged and will crash. The Earth's magnetic field will reverse and our planet will start spinning around the other way! The North Pole will become the South Pole and vise versa! And much, if not all of our civilizations will be destroyed!


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

Almost everyone will die during the coming Pole-Shift if precautions are not taken with utmost urgency! And to top it all off, the survivors will be without much of present day technology. There won't be any computers or machines to rely on to pick up the pieces and put life, as we've known it, back together.

The easiest way to invision the Solar Flare that will soon help to blow away the Earth's magnetic field, is to envision a calculator that is counting up intertwined magnetic forces, again and again. And just when the crucial point has been reached, the calculator will destroy itself in one gigantic flash. By now, the colossal forces that will put an end to most all of civilization have already accumulated in the Sun. In the remaining years, only a fraction of the forces already accumulated will be added.

The World will be robbed of light. Countless will meet their death while this disaster rages on our planet.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

A total magnetic reversal is awaiting us. This disaster will take place at the exact moment when all deviating cycles have pushed the Sun's magnetic fields to its maximum. The Earth's magnetic field will change, the Sun will suddenly seem to explode, and much of the World population will panick and try to escape to the harbors.

The Sun's magnetic field will reach it's crucial point. An endless stream of magnetic solar elements will finally break the magnetic field of the Earth. The solar flares will hit the Earth's magnetic field, causing it to collapse and reverse. It will reverse in one titanic movement, and the nucleus of the Earth will start rotating in the opposite direction, which will result in catastrophic consequences for all life on this planet. 

Shortly thereafter, the Earth will experience a Sunstorm that will demolish everything in it's path.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

Most importantly, the inevitability of the forthcoming disaster needs to infuse your mind. Everything that presently seems important to you, like building a house, having children, ect., pales in light of the total destruction that is awaiting us. A lot of what you want to achieve has absolutely no use. What are you going to do with your beautiful house when it is left in ruins by super-earthquakes, and after that swallowed up by immensely high tidal waves?

Think and consider carefully all the things you are planning to do. Little withstands so much violence of nature. Only boats, food supplies and survival equipment are of primary importance. Those who do not have them at hand may just about forget it.

In one day this super-catastrophe will cause the loss of thousands of years of work. It is up to you to take up this challenge, the biggest you can ever accept. Maybe then you can play a main role in the next generation of myths about Human "super gods" that tempted the violence of nature, and founded a new civilization after the turbulent Earth calmed down.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

In the immediate years after the Pole-Shift, Life will be terribly difficult. There will be no electricity. Even if one is able to revive it, it will not have much use because almost all electronics and electrical motors will be destroyed after the reversal of the magnetic field. This means that we will have to start again at zero. That is what it comes to. You therefore need to be very motivated. Only a few will meet the requirements, in terms of the entire World population.

Surviving will have little use if you can not deal with the Life after the catastrophe. It will take many years before you can lead even a somewhat comfortable Life again. Therefore it may not be so for you, but eventually, it will again be possible for your descendants. Only the ones who properly understand this will be able to successfully make the attempt.

You have no idea of how bad and difficult it will be. Even in the worst war you are able to find some water and food if you are a bit handy. After the catastrophe it will be much more complicated than that. Billions of liters of oil will not only make the World's seas uninhabitable, but also cover huge parts of land with dirty, polluted residues. 

Worldwide, food and water supplies will be destroyed, possibly for many years. Famine and numerous diseases will be the result. At present you are most likely not exposed to anything like this; you are probably leading a luxurious life compared to these thoughts. It will be horrible in many ways, but that is the price that you will have to pay for your survival. Should you want to take that chance, I wish you the best of luck.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

Once the magnetic fields of the Sun reach their crucial point it will result in fatal consequences for the magnetic field of the Earth. In one word: catastrophic. Everybody knows that the Earth rotates around the Sun. The Sun doesn't move at all. The turning point of the Earth causes its apparent movement. When the North Pole changes to become the South Pole, it will mean that it would be the result of the internal spinning of the Earth moving in the opposite direction.  

The catastrophes from the past should warn us: nothing on Earth is everlasting. Oceans and landmasses exist only temporarily. In an ever-revolving cycle they are destroyed. In one day Humanity will find itself crashing into the abyss. In only a few hours, great nations, beautiful buildings and highly-developed cultures will stagger and completely collapse.

I believe that all this is going to occur sometime within the next 3-6 years. Especially between the years 2009 - December 21, 2012. 

This fate is awaiting us and nobody will be able to escape from it. Except perhaps, for those who take the necessary measures - those who are willing and able to take on the responsibilities of being the next "Noah".


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## mattskramer (Jul 22, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> Almost everyone will die during the coming Pole-Shift if precautions are not taken with utmost urgency! And to top it all off, the survivors will be without much of present day technology. There won't be any computers or machines to rely on to pick up the pieces and put life, as we've known it, back together.
> 
> The easiest way to invision the Solar Flare that will soon help to blow away the Earth's magnetic field, is to envision a calculator that is counting up intertwined magnetic forces, again and again. And just when the crucial point has been reached, the calculator will destroy itself in one gigantic flash. By now, the colossal forces that will put an end to most all of civilization have already accumulated in the Sun. In the remaining years, only a fraction of the forces already accumulated will be added.
> 
> The World will be robbed of light. Countless will meet their death while this disaster rages on our planet.



So what should I do to prepare for it and to try to avoid dying from it?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

mattskramer said:


> So what should I do to prepare for it and to try to avoid dying from it?



Oh I'll be getting to that soon enough...but I still have to cover some more ground first.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

Even Albert Einstein believed in the possibility of a Pole-Shift within the near future.


*Here we find a foreword by Albert Einstein shortly before his death. :* 

 "I frequently receive communications from people who wish to consult me concerning their unpublished ideas. It goes without saying that these ideas are very seldom possessed of scientific validity. The very first communication, however, that I received from Mr. Hapgood electrified me. His idea is original, of great simplicity, and if it continues to prove itself of great importance to everything that is related to the history of the earth's surface. I think that this rather astonishing, even fascinating, idea deserves the serious attention of anyone who concerns himself with the theory of the Earth's development."

*Einstein also wrote... *

In a polar region there is a continual deposition of ice, which is not symmetrically distributed about the pole. The Earth's rotation acts on these unsymmetrically deposited masses [of ice], and produces centrifugal momentum that is transmitted to the rigid crust of the Earth. The constantly increasing centrifugal momentum produced in this way will, when it has reached a certain point, produce a movement of the Earth's crust over the rest of the Earth's body, and this will displace the polar regions toward the equator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

There are several well known scientists who support the Pole-Shift theory. Some of them are Dr. Victor Clube, David Talbott, Charles Ginenthal, Ted Holden, C.J. Ransom, Paul La Violette, Tom Van Flandern and Robert Dunlap just to name a few. All are well known scientists from paleontologist to astrophysicist to astronomers.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 22, 2007)

Even NASA believes in the possibility of a Pole-Shift within the near future. And definately they even PREDICT the possibility that there could very well likely be a magnetic pole-reversal very soon.


*This information comes straight from the NASA website:*

"Scientists have long known that the magnetic pole moves. James Ross located the pole for the first time in 1831 after an exhausting arctic journey during which his ship got stuck in the ice for four years. No one returned until the next century. In 1904, Roald Amundsen found the pole again and discovered that it had moved--at least 50 km since the days of Ross." 

"The pole kept going during the 20th century, north at an average speed of 10 km per year, lately accelerating "to 40 km per year," says Newitt. At this rate it will exit North America and reach Siberia in a few decades."

"Keeping track of the north magnetic pole is Newitt's job. "We usually go out and check its location once every few years," he says. "We'll have to make more trips now that it is moving so quickly." 

"Earth's magnetic field is changing in other ways, too: Compass needles in Africa, for instance, are drifting about 1 degree per decade. And globally the magnetic field has weakened 10&#37; since the 19th century. When this was mentioned by researchers at a recent meeting of the American Geophysical Union, many newspapers carried the story. A typical headline: "Is Earth's magnetic field collapsing?" 

"Probably not. As remarkable as these changes sound, "they're mild compared to what Earth's magnetic field has done in the past," says University of California professor Gary Glatzmaier."

"Sometimes the field completely flips. The north and the south poles swap places. Such reversals, recorded in the magnetism of ancient rocks, are unpredictable. They come at irregular intervals averaging about 300,000 years; the last one was 780,000 years ago."

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/29dec_magneticfield.html


I don't believe that NASA is correct on the date of the last Pole-Reversal. I believe it happened much more recently than they say that it did. However, I do believe that they are correct in that it did happen.


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## manu1959 (Jul 22, 2007)

care to share with us your date and the basis of your claim?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 23, 2007)

manu1959 said:


> care to share with us your date and the basis of your claim?



Sure thing.

See...the date I believe the Pole-Shift is going to happen is the 2009-December 21st, 2012 timeframe.

Thats when I expect the Pole-Shift to occur. Sometime between those two dates.

As far as why I believe that, the answer is for various reasons. But much to do with studying different sources all around the World, mainly cultures, such as the Ancient Mayans, Egyptians, ect. But also from other sources as well from more recent times.

It is no secret that I believe in Prophecy. And alot of my studying of Prophecies plays into that calculation as well....


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

Alright folks now it's time for the Pole-Shift prophecy section of this thread. There are prophecies of the coming Pole-Shift all over the World today. Ancient, and new. I would like to present some of them in the coming posts. They all tell of the consequences of what appears to be the same event, and I believe many people will find them to be quite interesting to say the least. =)


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

*THE* *BIBLE*

*AND*

*THE* *POLE*-*SHIFT*


I am not exactly what you would call a "Bible-thumper", but one of my favorite sections of the Bible has to be the prophecies of Revelations. We do not know much about this part of the Bible; how it came about or the person who wrote it - all we know is that this story of the Apocalypse was written by a Jewish Christian who called himself John. The meaning of the word "Apocalypse" is "revelation". The Book of Revelations was written between 56 and 95 BC on the island of Patmos, off of Turkey. 

In his preface, John says that God gave the Apocalypse to him through an Angel. Quoting from the book, John says, "And I saw an Angel that spoke in a loud voice: "Who is worthy to open the book?" And no man in Heaven or Earth was able to open the book", least of all have a glimpse at it. But there wasn't a barrier for John. He was allowed to look at it. But according to him, he did not have to read it. He was able to see everything happening before his eyes. It becomes really interesting at the opening of the sixth seal. This concerns the pulse of the Universe.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

Remember now, this is John's "vision" of what I believe to be the near future. And according to John of the book of Revelations, "Stars fell on the Earth", and "Heaven behaved like a papyrus that was rolled up". Before opening the seventh seal, there was a short silence and a change in the chronological events. 

As if in a movie, John was moved forward and backward in time between Heaven and Earth. According to John, The "servants" of God, the "144,000 members of the 12 tribes of Israel, were marked by a "seal" on their foreheads. This would protect them during the forecast Judgement of God.

After opening the seventh seal, there is a delay for some reason. John tells us the following: "There was a silence in Heaven of approximately half an hour. Then starts a whole series of surrealistic events. Seven successive trumpets come first, representing the number of opened seals.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

With the first sound of the trumpet, the Earth is bombarded with hail and fire, mixed with blood. A third of the planet burns. The second trumpet changes a third of the oceans into blood. A third of organic life is wiped out and a third of all ships destroyed. Together with the sound of the third trumpet, a "star" falls on the Earth, poisoning a third of the rivers and lakes. The fourth trumpet announces the partial extinction of the light of the Sun and the Moon. The fifth opens an abyss in the Earth. At the sound of the sixth trumpet, several plagues are released on the Earth, and a third of mankind is supposed to perish. During this slaughter, so says John, much of Humankind refuses to give up their gods, made of gold and silver, which "cannot see nor hear nor talk."

Again there is an interlude before the sound of the seventh trumpet. During this period John receives a papyrus from an Angel, which is known in "the Earth and the Sea", who orders him to eat it. It will taste sweet in his mouth, but bitter in his stomach, the Angel assures him. The moral lesson is that the fruits of materialism are not worthwhile, but form a bitter pill to swallow.

Thereupon, John was told that two witnesses, symbolized by two olive trees and two lamps, would launch their prophecies on Earth during 1,260 days, together with plagues and the changing of water into blood. Seven Angels bring seven plagues in the last hours of much of Humankind. The fourth and the fifth could be seen as the most important ones. They say that the Sun will scorch Human Beings with its beams, after which a period of darkness will follow on the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

Now think about that last sentence folks. John says that "the Sun will scorch us with its beams, and then darkness will follow." How interesting. This is exactly what the Ancient Egyptians and Mayans, along with many Scientists, believe will happen to the Earth during the Pole-Shift when the Sun releases a superstorm of particles on our planet which will wipe out the magnetic field of the Earth, and which will be accompanied by a period of darkness on certain portions of the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

*REVELATION** 6; 12-17:*


*"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake; and the Sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the Moon became as blood;"

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the Earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

"And the Heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

"And the kings of the Earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains."

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb."

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"*


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

*REVELATION** 8; 1-13:*


*"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was a silence in Heaven about the space of half an hour."

"And I saw the seven Angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

"And another Angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne."

"And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the Angel's hand."

"And the Angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it unto the Earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

"And the seven Angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

"The first Angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the Earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."

"And the second Angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea, and the third part of the sea became blood."

"And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had Life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed."

"And the third Angel sounded, and there fell a great star from Heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters."

"And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

"And the fourth Angel sounded, and the third part of the Sun was smitten, and the third part of the Moon, and the third part of the stars, so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

"And I beheld, and heard an Angel flying through the midst of Heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the Earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three Angels, which are yet to sound!"*


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

*REVELATION** 9; 1-2:*


*"And the fifth Angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from Heaven unto the Earth; and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."

"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the Sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."*


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 28, 2007)

*REVELATION** 16; 3:*

*"And the second Angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea."*

*REVELATION** 16; 4:*

*"And the third Angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became as blood."*

*REVELATION** 16; 8:*

*"And the fourth Angel poured out his vial upon the Sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire."*

*REVELATION** 16; 9:*

*"And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give Him glory."*

*REVELATION** 16; 10-11:*

*"And the fifth Angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast, and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain."

"And blasphemed the God of Heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds."*

*REVELATION** 16; 12:*

*"And the sixth Angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."*

*REVELATION** 16; 18:*

*"And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the Earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."*


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## Said1 (Jul 28, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> *REVELATION** 16; 3:*
> 
> *"And the second Angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea."*
> 
> ...



Why can't you just try and predict MY future?


Actually, if you could dig up some NWO Casy prophesies, I'll be your bestest freind, ever. I recall something interesting about Russia being an example of peace.....ringing any bells? Gimme what you got anyway. Please.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

Said1 said:


> Why can't you just try and predict MY future?
> 
> 
> Actually, if you could dig up some NWO Casy prophesies, I'll be your bestest freind, ever. I recall something interesting about Russia being an example of peace.....ringing any bells? Gimme what you got anyway. Please.



Edgar Cayce said that, "One day Russia will become the hope of the World", or something along those lines......

I take it he meant that at some point, Russia was going to be a huge determining factor in the course of the future of the Earth.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

In fact, Cayce's exact prediction about Russia was:

*Edgar Cayce:*

"[Through Russia], comes the hope of the world. Not in respect to what is sometimes termed Communism or Bolshevism -- no! But freedom -- freedom! That each man will live for his fellow man. The principle has been born there. It will take years for it to be crystallized; yet out of Russia comes again the hope of the world."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

Cayce foresaw that Russia would one day become America's ally. Russia, he said, would be guided by friendship with the United States. The Soviet Union's attempt to rule "not only the economic, but the mental and spiritual life" of its people was doomed to failure.  

*Edgar Cayce:*

"..for changes are coming, this may be sure -- an evolution or revolution in the ideas of religious thought. The basis of it for the world will eventually come out of Russia. Not communism, no! But rather that which is the basis of the same as the Christ taught -- his kind of communism."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

Going back to the beginning of this thread...I truly do believe we will need Russia as a friend if *Red* China decides to get hostile and invade the areas around it.

In fact, if Nostradamus was right, and another Hitler type person is born our of China, and claims high position there, and raises up a massive army for invasion purposes only, and to destroy, destroy, destroy, than believe we will need Russia on our side more than ever if/when that happens.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

The Bible has other prophecies in it as well which I believe could possibly relate to the coming Pole-Shift. And they are not just in Revelations. They are found in other places as well.

ONE of the primary reasons for such erratic weather in the world, along with volcanic and earthquake activity THAT IS NOW INCREASING RAPIDLY, is the prophecy concerning what could only be called a LITERAL SHIFTING OF THE POLES, with the earth realigning itself upon a whole new polar axis. A similar description of this event can be found in the prophecy of *Isaiah 24; Isaiah 13:13; and Jeremiah 50:46*." 

There are other references as well. This does not debate the MECHANICS of the event itself so much, that is, whether the shift is CRUSTAL or the ENTIRE EARTH, or if there is another TRIGGER EVENT, such as POLAR ICE CAP DISPLACEMENT, A DIPOLE REVERSAL OR EXCURSION, SOLAR CORONAL MASS EJECTIONS THAT HIT THE EARTH, PLANETARY ALIGNMENT, COMET OR SOMETHING ELSE, but rather with what the Bible appears to declare is the trigger event.

What we are going to investigate is what Scripture says, and what several other books of the ancients have to say, concerning a POLAR SHIFT. That there is one coming aopears to be certain, according to the Bible.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

When it comes to the last Pole-Shift that destroyed Atlantis, As none of us were there to watch it, and very few alive today will live long enough to go through it and come out the other side to analyze it, the debates may rage, but many of the actual facts lay buried in Scripture. It is not until the very end that EVEN THE PEOPLE OF GOD begin to understand what is approaching - and that there is no escape!

There is a reason why Jesus Christ warned ALL MANKIND to SEARCH HIM OUT, TO FIND HIM, TO LAY HOLD OF HIM, and to STAND BEFORE HIM WORTHY, because, He implied, WHAT WAS COMING UPON THE EARTH COULD NOT BE ESCAPED ANY OTHER WAY - no matter where you lived, not matter what you believed, no matter what, the COMING CATACLYSMIC CHANGES would "cleanse the earth" of all EVIL, and much of mankind, throughout all of Scripture, is labeled EVIL.

This change was so horrible, so all encompassing, and so thorough, that only a ver few, other than God's elect, would survive it. It is also inevitable, and mankind cannot change it - no matter what he does, for God appears to be operating upon a specific time schedule.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

There is a hue and cry going fourth from those who study prophecy, or who get visions, and the mass media, that prophecy is a "warning", and that if mankind heeds the warning, then the prophecy will not come true - that is true only under severely limited parameters when it comes to certain prophecy - for prophecy in many ways is NOT prediction - but is instead believed to be more of a history to God, who resides OUTSIDE time and space, and who SAW THE DECISIONS MANKIND MADE, witnessed the future, and gave it to HIS PROPHETS, who in turn wrote it down and gave it to us.

Mankind cannot change certain forms of prophecy, for it is ACTUALLY ALREADY DONE - just not unfolded to us yet.

Many of those in the earth sciences, with rare exception, believe in the Doctrine of Uniformitaranism, which is to say that the earth does not go through periodic cataclysmic changes, but rather is "steady-state", that all changes take place very slowly, over millions of years, and therefore, because their doctrine is the truth, reject out-of-hand all warnings that this concept is untrue, or might be untrue. They scoff at, and mock all those who attempt to warn them. They point to modern history, which shows no such activity, but ignore a vast amount of ancient writings and label them "myths". So be it, ignorance corrected is wisdom in the end, even if they cannot extricate themselves from their fate.


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## trobinett (Jul 29, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> When it comes to the last Pole-Shift that destroyed Atlantis, As none of us were there to watch it, and very few alive today will live long enough to go through it and come out the other side to analyze it, the debates may rage, but many of the actual facts lay buried in Scripture. It is not until the very end that EVEN THE PEOPLE OF GOD begin to understand what is approaching - and that there is no escape!
> 
> There is a reason why Jesus Christ warned ALL MANKIND to SEARCH HIM OUT, TO FIND HIM, TO LAY HOLD OF HIM, and to STAND BEFORE HIM WORTHY, because, He implied, WHAT WAS COMING UPON THE EARTH COULD NOT BE ESCAPED ANY OTHER WAY - no matter where you lived, not matter what you believed, no matter what, the COMING CATACLYSMIC CHANGES would "cleanse the earth" of all EVIL, and much of mankind, throughout all of Scripture, is labeled EVIL.
> 
> This change was so horrible, so all encompassing, and so thorough, that only a ver few, other than God's elect, would survive it. It is also inevitable, and mankind cannot change it - no matter what he does, for God appears to be operating upon a specific time schedule.



Hey, NW, I see things are going along quite well in your somewhat skewed world.

Do you actually sleep at night?

I only ask that question because one that TRUELY believes what you say you believe, well, I would fine it very, very, very hard to sleep, that is with ANY hope of actually waking up in the morning.

Just curious.............


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

We are not debating the validity of much modern science - it is already very clear that mankind, professing itself to be wise, bases much of it's science upon false premises, and therefore in many instances draws totally wrong conclusions, and by those, develops a totally wrong concept of the Earth, the Heavens and how all things actually work. That pretty much goes without saying.

It is not until the end, as the CATACLYSMIC CHANGES ARE UPON THEM, that the vast majority of scientists and the world, for that matter, will realize that they have made a tragic mistake, not only in science, but in their theology, which can be typically very ANTICHRIST in nature.

The Bible tells mankind, that "IF THEY WILL DO AS GOD COMMANDED, THEY WILL FIND OUT IT IS TRUE, BEYOND ALL QUESTION TRUE, and that NOT ONE DOT, NOR ONE TITTLE SHALL BE REMOVED, UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED."


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## trobinett (Jul 29, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> We are not debating the validity of much modern science - it is already very clear that mankind, professing itself to be wise, bases much of it's science upon false premises, and therefore in many instances draws totally wrong conclusions, and by those, develops a totally wrong concept of the Earth, the Heavens and how all things actually work. That pretty much goes without saying.
> 
> It is not until the end, as the CATACLYSMIC CHANGES ARE UPON THEM, that the vast majority of scientists and the world, for that matter, will realize that they have made a tragic mistake, not only in science, but in their theology, which can be typically very ANTICHRIST in nature.
> 
> The Bible tells mankind, that "IF THEY WILL DO AS GOD COMMANDED, THEY WILL FIND OUT IT IS TRUE, BEYOND ALL QUESTION TRUE, and that NOT ONE DOT, NOR ONE TITTLE SHALL BE REMOVED, UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED."




There you have it then.  You DON'T sleep at night, that is if you TRUELY believe what you just wrote.

Sorry............


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

Let's begin with  *Isaiah* *24:1.* 


*Isaiah* *24:1:*

*"Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, 
AND TURNETH IT UPSIDE DOWN, 
and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."* 


Then there are those who claim that this verse does not speak of a literal polar shift. It most certainly does, for the ancient language is very clear, the EARTH IS IN FACT TURNED UPSIDE DOWN - and to turn the world UPSIDE DOWN means to SHIFT ITS POLES, NORTH TO SOUTH, SOUTH TO NORTH. There is much other evidence in Scripture to support such a concept, as we shall see." 

"The word "turneth" means to BOW DOWN, to make crooked, that is to MOVE DOWNWARD. To "bow" means to LOWER THE FACE, from UPRIGHT downward. As the face of the earth UPRIGHT is as it is today, with the North Pole at about 23.5 degrees, then to BOW DOWN WOULD BE TO LOWER THE NORTH POLE DOWNWARD, TOWARDS THE SOUTH. The words UPSIDE DOWN, means THE FACE OF THAT WHICH TURNS, TO TURN IT UPSIDE DOWN. In other words, to TURN OVER, TO TOPPLE, as a TOP TOPPLES at the end of its spin. The word "empty" means TO DEPOPULATE, to LAY WASTE, to ANNIHILATE. When put together there is clearly a POLAR SHIFT, a massive CHANGE IN THE POLES, SO THAT THE EARTH LITERALLY TOPPLES OVER IN SPACE."


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

Polar shifts are a well supported concept, AND THERE IS EVIDENCE OF PREVIOUS POLAR SHIFTS, AS WELL AS MAGNETIC POLE SHIFTS, WHICH CAN BE SEEN IN ROCK FORMATIONS, through magnetic field alignments, and the finding of the bodies of tropical animal life, that had been, suddenly and without warning, quick frozen while they were eating. 

This event occurs, according to Scripture, because the earth suddenly changes rotation, but the atmosphere does not. This generates gigantic roll clouds as the atmosphere, through friction, is pulled along the surface of the earth. Because the air cannot keep up with the earth's now rapidly moving surface, huge roll clouds develop (such as in severe squall lines) , and a huge vacuum is created. Almost within seconds, cold outer atmosphere winds strike the earth and QUICK FREEZE ANYTHING IN THEIR PATH. The wind velocities would have to exceed several hundred if not thousands of miles per hour. The temperature would reach near absolute zero.


*Revelation* *6:14* speaks of this: 

*"And the Heaven DEPARTED AS A SCROLL WHEN IT IS ROLLED TOGETHER;...."* 

The heaven spoken of here is most likely a description of the atmosphere of Earth. It departs as a SCROLL WHEN IT IS ROLLED TOGETHER. Those that have witnessed a severe squall line of thunderstorms have seen what is known as a ROLL CLOUD that advances ahead of the main line of storms. These roll clouds are severe in nature. 

Imagine then, a HUGE ROLL CLOUD that develops as the air attempts to keep up with the rapidly moving ground below it. Because it cannot, huge breaks begin to occur, the atmosphere leaving a huge vacuum which is instantly filled from the higher altitudes. INSTANT FREEZE OF EVERYTHING IN ITS PATH!

The Earth is utterly broken down, the Earth is clean dissolved, the 
EARTH IS MOVED EXCEEDINGLY.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

*Isaiah* *24:20*: 

_*"THE EARTH 
SHALL REEL TO AND FRO 
LIKE A DRUNKARD, 
AND SHALL BE REMOVED LIKE A COTTAGE; 
AND THE TRANSGRESSION THERE-OF SHALL BE HEAVY UPON IT; 
AND IT SHALL FALL 
AND NOT RISE AGAIN." *_


This appears to be a literal statement of fact. The Earth will be removed OUT OF HER PLACE. The place of the Earth is twofold: 

*1.* HER ORBIT AROUND THE SUN. 
*2.* HER POLAR SPIN AXIS.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

According to all of the Bible prophecies, and those of the Hopi Indians, the New Age and others, the EARTH WILL UNDERGO A RADICAL SHIFT IN HER POLAR AXIS! The Bible also says SHE WILL BE REMOVED TOTALLY OUT OF HER PRESENT ORBIT around the Sun. Something triggers this event. What is it?" 

First let's check out the words used, to be sure we are taking the most literal approach as intended by the Lord. The word "reel" means TO WAVER UP AND DOWN OR SIDEWAYS, as a drunk that weaves and wanders, falling and reeling. The word "removed", means TO NOD, TO SHAKE OR TOSS THE HEAD, MAKE TO MOVE, TO SHAKE.

The word "fall" means to BE CAST DOWN, TO OVERTHROW or to FALL DOWN. Again, the proper PLACE of the earth is at this time about a 23 degree inclination of the poles. To be REELING means for the earth to BE TOSSED, TO TURN UPSIDE DOWN, TO REEL BACK AND FOURTH AS IT GAINS A NEW EQUILIBRIUM IN A NEW AXIS, AND QUITE POSSIBLY, A NEW ORBIT. Thus the entire earth "falls" over, if viewed from outer space.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

*Isaiah* *24:4-6:* 

_*"The earth mourneth and fadeth away, 
the world languisheth and fadeth away, 
the haughty people of the earth do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: 
therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, 
and few men left." *_


This event is so destructive, and so Universal, that God claims FEW MEN ARE LEFT ALIVE, AND THAT MEANS VERY FEW. Thus we can prove this is a UNIVERSAL EVENT, all over the globe mankind is "scattered" and destroyed. It is the end of all civilization as we know it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 29, 2007)

Here is another Scripture that confirms that this is a literal Polar-Shift we have soon coming to us: 


*Psalm* *46:1-3:* 

*"To the chief Musician for the sons of Korah, A Song upon Alamoth. 
God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah."*


Again we find this strange remark that the EARTH IS TO BE REMOVED. This so called "removal" is so massive that it carries the MOUNTAINS INTO THE MIDST OF THE SEAS!! What type of earthquake is so mammoth that it takes MOUNTAIN RANGES, THAT ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE NATIONS (CONTINENTS) and THEY SINK BELOW THE WAVES OF THE SEA? The word "remove" in this case means "TO ALTER, TO CHANGE, TO DISPENSE WITH THE PRESENT ONE AND EXCHANGE IT FOR ANOTHER.

This sound like a NEW EARTH AND NEW SKY. A total rearrangement of the earth's surface, to alter its appearance totally, to destroy what is here today and to rearrange it. A Literal POLAR SHIFT would do exactly that, and it would cause massive flooding as well.


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## Truthmatters (Jul 29, 2007)

Is this a religious site or a political site?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 30, 2007)

Truthmatters said:


> Is this a religious site or a political site?



Was that really necessary?

I'm trying to display some prophecy, not trying to hold a church session. Which I am sure you already knew.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 30, 2007)

*Isaiah* *54* 

_*"For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee."* _


The words "shall depart" come from a word that means TO RECEDE, TO WITHDRAW, TO GO BACK, OR TO REMOVE, TO BE TAKEN AWAY. The word 'remove" means TO WAVER, TO SHAKE, TO FALL OR TO BE CARRIED AWAY. In other words, THE MOUNTAINS AND THE HILLS WILL "GO BACK" FROM WHENCE THEY CAME - A REVERSAL, SO TO SPEAK. THUS NATIONS THAT CAME UP FROM THE SEA WILL GO BACK, AND THOSE THAT SUNK IN THE SEA SHALL ARISE. A total RESTRUCTURING OF THE PLANET, a total FACELIFT, a changing of her "face". Again, a literal polar shift would accomplish exactly that.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 30, 2007)

*Habakkuk* *3:6:* 

*"He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting."* 


*Rev.* *16:18-20:*

*"And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."* 


Now it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this MIGHTY EARTHQUAKE, bigger than ANYTHING SINCE THERE WAS A NATION, one that DESTROYS ALL THE MOUNTAINS, AND EVERY ISLAND on earth is a GREAT SHIFTING OF THE EARTH. It goes hand and hand with Isaiah 24 and the LORD TURNING THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN. Only a POLAR SHIFT of GREAT MAGNITUDE could cause such a massive upheaval, complete with massive TSUNAMIS that destroy the nations of the Earth. The Bible has a story, a story that all but obliterates mankind from off the face of the Earth - except for few survivors.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 30, 2007)

*Isaiah* *2:17-21:* 

_*"And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. And the idols he shall utterly abolish. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth."*_ 

Here we have another statement, actually MADE TWICE (which is a real warning), that the EARTH IS GOING TO SHAKE WITH UTTER VIOLENCE, and this terrible shaking will destroy civilization as we know it totally! The words translated "shake terribly" means AWE, DREAD, TO SHAKE TERRIBLY. It will fill men with total awe and total dread, which is why Jesus Christ said that MEN'S HEART WOULD FAIL THEM FOR FEAR OVER WHAT WAS COMING UPON THE EARTH. There is no escape from this.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 30, 2007)

*Haggai* *2:6-7* 

*"For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts."* 

*Job* *9:2-10* 

*"I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand. He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered? Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger. Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number."* 


The Earth is again stated to be removed OUT OF HER PLACE, and that the MOUNTAINS ARE REMOVED. Then it makes mentions that her PILLARS TREMBLE. What are these "pillars" of the Earth? Could it be that the pillars are in fact THE CENTER OF HER SPIN AXIS? Sort of like a GYROSCOPE, that has its own "pillars' about which is rotates? That the pillars are the poles that she revolves around? And if so, that they shake and tremble, and then finally topple as the Earth is turned UPSIDE DOWN?


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 30, 2007)

*Matthew* *24:7* 

*"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be FAMINES, AND PESTILENCES, 
AND EARTHQUAKES, IN DIVERS PLACES"* 


The Bible implies an INCREASE IN EARTHQUAKES OF GREATER MAGNITUDE as we approach the end. But Jesus did not say that here, He only said there WOULD BE MAJOR EARTHQUAKES IN VARIOUS PLACES ALL OVER THE WORLD. These lead, however, to EARTHQUAKES OF SUCH A MAGNITUDE that it leaves the RICHTER SCALE IN THE DUST. 

THIS ACTIVITY OF LARGER AND LARGER EARTHQUAKES WILL INCREASE RAPIDLY AS THE POLAR SHIFT APPROACHES. These actions are slow to begin, and accelerate as the day approaches. In short, the Earth enters a period in which INSTABILITY BEGINS TO APPEAR. 

The Bible is full of EARTHQUAKE AND VOLCANIC ACTIVITY prophecy.


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## NuclearWinter (Jul 30, 2007)

*Luke* *21:25-26* 

*"And there shall be signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things 
which are coming on the earth for the powers of heaven shall be shaken." *


The SUN HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY CHANGED IN CATEGORY AND TYPE. It has now been RECLASSIFIED AS A VARIABLE OUTPUT STAR. It was formally classified as STEADY STATE. The Sun is also getting hotter, and we have entered Solar Cycle 23, which some scientists fear may be a very nasty cycle." 

"In view of the TIMING OF CYCLE 23, and how it merges with Psalm 90&#8217;s "SOON" ending, we could be entering the FINAL CYCLE, THE CYCLE THAT WILL SEE MUCH OF MAN&#8217;S ERA END. We may now be in that time period that Psalm 90 calls "soon".


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Jul 31, 2007)

where's your LINK?

"In view of the TIMING OF CYCLE 23, and how it merges with Psalm 90&#8217;s "SOON" ending, we could be entering the FINAL CYCLE, THE CYCLE THAT WILL SEE MUCH OF MAN&#8217;S ERA END. We may now be in that time period that Psalm 90 calls "soon".[/QUOTE]


Uhh, yeah, except for the fact that solar cycle 23 IS OVER IN LESS THAN A YEAR, and it peaked in 2001.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 31, 2007)

*There are three major areas of concern for us:* 


*1.* THE SOLAR CYCLE 23 THAT ENDS WITHIN THE NEXT FEW YEARS OR SO. 

*2.* SOLAR CYCLE 24, AROUND 2010-2014 AT ITS PEAK.

*3.* SOLAR CYCLE 25, around 2021-2025 AT ITS PEAK.


The primary danger is that we are closer, not further away from the Solar Cycle that produces the NOVA of 7 TIMES foretold in Scripture. I am very concerned that Any 3 of the above cycles is going to be the cycle that will produce it, and the SIGNS that would appear are starting to show themselves, just before the destruction comes, and how they tie directly to many prophecies and predictions.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 31, 2007)

Personally I believe that SOLAR CYCLE 24 is the one we need to pay attention to the most. Because I believe that it is during this cycle that we will see the full blown Pole-Shift occur.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 31, 2007)

*Enoch* *79:6* 

_*"THE MOON SHALL CHANGE ITS LAWS, AND NOT BE SEEN IN ITS PROPER PERIOD..." *_

As to the discussion of the Moon, IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT DURING THE POLE-SHIFT ON EARTH THE MOON WILL NOT KEEP ITS "COURSE". The course of the Moon is ITS ORBIT, and the Book of Enoch claims the MOON WILL NOT BE SEEN IN IT'S PROPER PERIOD, and that most likely means MAJOR AND MASSIVE UPHEAVALS UPON EARTH, for the TIDES are directly related to the Moon and its orbit. THE IMPLICATION OF ENOCH COULD BE THAT THE MOON MOVES CLOSER TO EARTH, and does not appear in its "NORMAL SEASONS" or PERIOD. 

That possibly means a major change in the VELOCITY OF THE MOON AROUND THE EARTH. The question is, what MAKES THE MOON CHANGE ITS ORBIT, SPEED OF ROTATION AND DISTANCE FROM THE EARTH? Either way, this would bring huge gravitational changes upon the Earth, and THE SEA AND WAVES would INDEED BE ROARING, and the NATIONS OF THE WORLD WOULD BE IN DEEP DISTRESS, FOR NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING UPON THE EARTH.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 31, 2007)

*Isaiah* *65:17* 

_*"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."*_ 


*Isaiah* *66:22* 

_*"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."*_ 


*Peter* *3:13* 

_*"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." *_


Beware of the false and or confused scientists that are the blind leading the blind. The common explanation for the erratic weather we are having from them is that either El Nino, or that Earths weather has usually BEEN UNSTABLE, and that the relative calm of our weather patterns of these last few centuries is VERY ABNORMAL, and we are entering back into a more "normal" weather pattern. If an anomaly occurs, it is explained away. All explanations will fall short. VERY SHORT. 

The wise will begin to detect these changes far in advance of mankind in general, who has no idea as to what is going on, either in nature or in the affairs of men. But the event does in fact change the HEAVENS and CHANGE THE EARTH. There are new land masses, new alignments in the sky, ect.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 31, 2007)

*Enoch* *45:4 & 5* 

*"In that day I will cause my elect one to dwell in the MIDST OF THEM; 
WILL CHANGE THE FACE OF HEAVEN, will bless it and illuminate it forever.. 
I will also CHANGE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, and BLESS IT, and cause those whom I have elected to dwell upon it..." *


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 31, 2007)

*Isaiah* *13:13 *

_*"THEREFORE I WILL 
SHAKE THE HEAVENS, 
AND THE EARTH 
SHALL REMOVE OUT OF HER PLACE, 
IN THE WRATH OF THE LORD OF HOSTS, 
AND IN THE DAY OF HIS FIERCE ANGER." *_


The word "remove" means here to UNDULATE, TO QUIVER, TO WAVER. The word "out of her place" means her STANDING, HER SPOT, AS SHE IS TODAY. Thus the EARTH, with its 23 degree inclination, IS TO BE CHANGED. She shall be changed, and there will come a literal POLAR SHIFT. If one were standing upon the ground, and the POLES SHIFTED, then we would find a reference to the stars falling, or the Sun standing still, etc. In point of fact WE DO.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Jul 31, 2007)

*Matthew* *24:29* 

*"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"*


*Mark* *13:25* 

*"And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken." *


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 1, 2007)

*Matthew* *24:21-22* 

*"For then 
shall be great tribulation, 
such as was not since the beginning of the world 
to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 
And except those days should be shortened, 
there should no flesh be saved: 
but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."*


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 1, 2007)

That the Sun goes into massive Solar instability is written in Scripture as shown here: 


*Isaiah* *30:26* 

_*"Moreover the 
light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, 
and the 
light of the sun shall be sevenfold, 
as the light of seven days, 
in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound." *_


Now if the SUN INCREASES ITS LIGHT BY SEVEN TIMES, that means it gets MUCH HOTTER AS WELL. That instability has already been detected by our scientists, and is just beginning. As we approach SOLAR CYCLE 24, we are going to find more and more INSTABILITY and A SOLAR FLARE is the most likely explanation for this Scripture. 

The light of the Moon increasing to that of our present day Sun is hard to imagine, but that is what it says will occur. 

If the earth was under the same 24 hour day with sunlight that intense, It would be hard for anyone to live at all, for the heat buildup over a 12 hour day would kill MANY. Thus, said Jesus, "THE DAYS WILL BE SHORTENED FOR THE ELECTS SAKE."

By bringing a day down to 16 hours, with daylight only 8 hours and night only 8 hours, then THE HEAT WOULD SCORCH MAN, BUT NOT KILL MAN. NATURE WILL HAVE GONE TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL!


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 1, 2007)

*Isaiah* *38:8* 

_*Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. 
So the sun returned ten degrees, 
by which degrees it was gone down.*_ 


That sounds like a partial POLAR SHIFT, when the SUN REVERSES COURSE. That is how it would appear on Earth, as the land masses MOVE OVER THE CORE OF THE EARTH, if this is a crustal shift. It would appear as though the SUN HAD MOVED.

No one can be 100&#37; sure, but the evidence is mounting that it is much nearer than most expect, and it will come as A SNARE, which means SUDDENLY and without WARNING TO THOSE WHO ARE NOT LOOKING FOR THESE THINGS.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 4, 2007)

*THE BIBLE*, 
*THE* *U**S**A*, 
*AND THE* *POLE-SHIFT*


I believe that Bible prophecy speaks of the future destruction of the United States of America during the coming Pole-Shift. I also believe that since the United States of America did not exist back when these scriptures were written, that the word Babylon the Great, was used in it's place.

There was an ancient city of Babylon. But that does not appear to be the city that the Bible speaks of when it talks of MASS destruction. And there is no record of the events that I am about to post ever happening to that city.

So therefore I have to conclude that when the Bible speaks of "Babylon the Great", that it is actually referring to the United States of America. Also, if you look closely at these prophecies, you may find as well that they can easily tie into the coming Pole-Shift and the effects of such an event.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 4, 2007)

*REVELATION**14:8:*

*"And there followed another Angel, saying Babylon (America) is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of her wrath of her fornication."*


*REVELATION** 16:19-21:*

*"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon (America) came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath."*

*"And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."*

*"And there fell upon men a great hail out of Heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."*


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 4, 2007)

*REVELATION** 17:1-2:*

*"And there came one of the seven Angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgement of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters (America):

"With whom the kings of the Earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the Earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication."*


*REVELATION** 17:5-6:*

*"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT (AMERICA), THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."*

*"And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."*


*REVELATION** 17:16:*

*"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."*


*REVELATION** 17:18:*

*"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city (America), which reigneth over the kings of the Earth."*


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 4, 2007)

*REVELATION** 18:1-20:*


*"And after these things I saw another Angel come down from Heaven, having great power; and the Earth was lightened with his glory."

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great (America) is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul Spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the Earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the Earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

"And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

"For her sins have reached unto Heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

"Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled to her double."

"How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."

"Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."

"And the Kings of the Earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,"

"Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon (America), that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgement come."

"And the merchants of the Earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:"

"The Merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble."

"And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and Souls of men."

"And the fruits that thy Soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all."

"The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing."

"And saying, Alas, alas that great city (America), that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones and pearls!"

"For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company of ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,"

"And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!"

"And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city (America), wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour she is made desolate."

"Rejoice over her, thou Heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 5, 2007)

*REVELATION**19:1-3:*

*"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in Heaven, saying, Al-le-lu-ia; Salvation and glory and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:"

"For TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS ARE HIS JUDGMENTS: for he hath judged the great whore (America), which did corrupt the Earth with her fornication, and HATH AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS SERVANTS AT HER HAND."

"And again they said, AL-LE-LU-IA. AND HER SMOKE ROSE UP FOR EVER AND EVER"*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 5, 2007)

*Isaiah* *13:19* 

_*"And Babylon (America), the glory of the KINGDOMS, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." *_


The NATION OF AMERICA has become a nation of utter apostasy and rebellion. It is filled with many people who USE THE NAME OF GOD BUT DO EVIL. They often quote Scripture, but out of context and do the opposite of that which they quote. Their leaders have become merely a reflection of their own inner heart attitude.

THE POLE-SHIFT DESTROYS AMERICA - BABYLON - FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER. The wrath begins, and it is poured out without measure. America is portrayed in Scripture as THE LEADER in the ROUNDUP OF GOD'S PEOPLE, and in its BETRAYAL OF GOD. The Bible says that the leaders of America, TURN TOTALLY AGAINST ITS HERITAGE, and go DEEPLY INTO THE BLACK OCCULT, and that the occult forces ACTUALLY WIN, AND TAKEOVER THE UNITED STATES, AND BRING HER INTO UTTER RUIN.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 5, 2007)

When the Pole-Shift begins, it is supposed to make such a tremendous noise that the entire world LITERALLY HEARS IT: 


*Jeremiah* *50:46*

_*"At the NOISE OF THE TAKING OF BABYLON (AMERICA) 
THE EARTH IS MOVED, 
AND THE CRY IS HEARD AMONG THE NATIONS." *_


The word "MOVED" means to UNDULATE, TO WAVER, TO SHAKE TO TREMBLE AND TO QUAKE. Again the whole Earth is involved in this, and this is a UNIVERSAL ACTIVITY.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 5, 2007)

*Daniel* *12:1* 

_*"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: 
and there shall be a time of trouble, 
such as 
never was since there was a nation 
even to that same time: 
and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."* _


America the NATION, which uses all of the Babylonian SYSTEMS in our current era (FINANCIAL, POLITICAL, RELIGIOUS), is said to be mostly eliminated in one massive event.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 5, 2007)

*Jeremiah* *51:42* 

_*"And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: 
And thou shalt say, 
THUS SHALL BABYLON (AMERICA) SINK, 
AND SHALL NOT RISE 
FROM THE EVIL THAT I WILL BRING UPON HER,,,"*_


*Jeremiah* *51:63-64*

_*"The sea is come up upon Babylon (AMERICA): 
she is covered 
with the multitude of the waves thereof.."*_


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## Care4all (Aug 5, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> *Isaiah* *13:19*
> 
> _*"And Babylon (America), the glory of the KINGDOMS, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." *_
> 
> ...



so what can those of us do, that have kept true to the Word, just wait, and hope that the Rapture is pre-tribulation?  Should we ''get out of her'', babylon?


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 6, 2007)

Care4all said:


> so what can those of us do, that have kept true to the Word, just wait, and hope that the Rapture is pre-tribulation?  Should we ''get out of her'', babylon?



Later down the line...not too far away...I will be posting some "Safer" places in the United States to be as opposed to the more "Dangerous" places to be during the Pole-Shift.

The information I will be posting will be based upon various sources. Among them being science, psychics, researchers, ect.

The truth is Care, is that no matter where you are in the World, you will feel the effects of the coming Pole-Shift. It's just that in some places it could be considered to be alot worse than others.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 6, 2007)

It is interesting to note that America is surrounded by warm water oceans, except to the North. There she is partly bordered by the Great Lakes. The mighty nation Babylon (America) dwells upon MANY WATERS, in the MIDST OF THE SEAS! America dwells by the Atlantic, Pacific, Gulf of Mexico, etc. This is one of the KEY PARAMETERS that we may use for identifying the NATION Babylon the Great (America). It is also a parameter IGNORED by those who fulfill the prophecies of the Babylonian shepherds, who refuse their own identity. Their refusal is part of the mystery of iniquity.


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## Care4all (Aug 6, 2007)

NuclearWinter said:


> It is interesting to note that America is surrounded by warm water oceans, except to the North. There she is partly bordered by the Great Lakes. The mighty nation Babylon (America) dwells upon MANY WATERS, in the MIDST OF THE SEAS! America dwells by the Atlantic, Pacific, Gulf of Mexico, etc. This is one of the KEY PARAMETERS that we may use for identifying the NATION Babylon the Great (America). It is also a parameter IGNORED by those who fulfill the prophecies of the Babylonian shepherds, who refuse their own identity. Their refusal is part of the mystery of iniquity.


Dwells on many waters could also mean that her Power, Mystery Babylon's pressence, is world wide!  It does not necessarily point to it being America because many waters surround her, because the passage specifically mentions dwells on many waters I thought?  It would have said she was "surrounded" by many waters if it was meant to read as you just speculated, in my opinion.

But I don't have the passage in front of me and this is only from memory, so I guess I could be wrong on that....

This is not to say that I do not think that America could be the new Babylon, because this certainly could be the case.

Care


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## Paulie (Aug 6, 2007)

I think what is MOST interesting, is that Ancient Babylon was located in what is now Iraq.

I'm not religious, and certainly not a christian, but I still pay attention to these kinds of things.  I question the relevence to modern day sometimes, and i also question their authenticity, but I don't write it off.

The only way you'd be able to understand all this stuff is if you entertained conspiracy theories, at least to some extent.  Many people don't want to do that, because the thought of some theories actually being possible makes them very uncomfortable.  It's a lot easier and comforting to just write them off as "kooky tin foil hat" stories.

I say who cares.  Whether it's really an Arab vs. Christian world war complete with terrorists looking to destroy America, or whether it's all orchestrated by a bunch of shadowy elite people, it's still pretty damn frightening.  No matter what, the possibility of nuclear world war is real.  It doesn't really matter what side you believe, because each side leads to eventual annihilation.  Unless of course you believe the mighty leaders of the USA are going to protect us from the evil-doers...but then again, even THEY want to eventually use nukes, so it's a lose-lose situation no matter how you look at it.


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## dilloduck (Aug 6, 2007)

Paulitics said:


> I think what is MOST interesting, is that Ancient Babylon was located in what is now Iraq.
> 
> I'm not religious, and certainly not a christian, but I still pay attention to these kinds of things.  I question the relevence to modern day sometimes, and i also question their authenticity, but I don't write it off.
> 
> ...



Why do the "mighty leaders of the USA" want to use nukes?


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 6, 2007)

*THE* *BIBLE* *CODE* 

*The words "Pole Shift", "destruction", "USA", and "Earth", all appear together in the Bible Code.*


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## Paulie (Aug 6, 2007)

dilloduck said:


> Why do the "mighty leaders of the USA" want to use nukes?



Just saying this will brand me as being partisan, like it always seems to do on this board, but you oughta ask Cheney that question.

I don't quite know exactly why ANYONE would _want_ to use nukes, but when the time comes and we bomb the supposed 'underground nuclear weapons facilities' in Iran with tactical nukes, you're question will be answered.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

Here is a prophecy from Hindu religion which explains the events we have coming to us before we enter into the Age of Aquarius. 

Currently, the Hindu's believe that we are living in the Kali Age, or the "Age of Darkness and Discord". At the end of this age, which is coming very soon, Hindu's believe there will be a type of apocalypse, which will be one of a series of apocalypses, each of which marks the end of one cycle and the beginning of another creation. 


*The* *Hindu* *Prophecy:* 


*"Vishnu/God has already saved humanity on a number of occasions, symbolically appearing as a savior in many different forms. It is said that He will appear again soon, destined to destroy the present world and to take humanity to a different, higher plane." 

"All kings/leaders occupying the Earth in the Kali Age will be wanting tranquility, strong in anger, taking pleasure at all times in lying and dishonesty, inflicting death on women, children and cows, prone to take the paltry possessions of others, with character that is mostly vile, rising to power and soon falling." 

"They will be short lived, ambitious, of little virtue and greedy. People will follow the customs of others and be adulterated with them; peculiar, undisciplined barbarians will be vigorously supported by rulers. Because they go on living with perversion, they will be ruined." 

"Dharma (eternal order, righteousness) becomes very weak in the Kali Age. People commit sin in mind, speech and actions." 

"Quarrels, plague, fatal diseases, famines, drought and calamities appear. Testimonies and proofs have no certainty. There is no criterion left when the Kali Age settles down."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

*The* *Hindu* *Prophecy:* 


*"People become poorer in vigor and luster. They are wicked, full of anger, sinful, false and avaricious. Bad ambitions, bad education, bad dealings and bad earnings excite fear. The whole batch becomes greedy and untruthful." 

"Many sudras (Godless ones) will become kings/leaders, and many heretics will be seen." 

"There will arise various sects; sannyasins (elevated ones, gurus) wearing clothes colored red." 

"Many profess to have supreme knowledge because, thereby, they will easily earn their livelihood." 

"In the Kali Age, there will be many false religionists." 

"India will become desolate by repeated calamities, short lives and various diseases." 

"Everyone will be miserable owing to the dominance of vice and Tamoguna (apathy,inaction)."*


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

*The* *Hindu* *Prophecy:* 


*"Earth will be valued only for Her mineral treasures." 

"Money alone will confer nobility." 

"Power will be the sole definition of virtue." 

"Pleasure will be the only reason for womanhood." 

"Falsehood will win out in disputes." 

"Being dry of water will be the only definition of land." 

"Praiseworthiness will be measured by accumulated wealth." 

'Propriety will be considered good conduct, and only feebleness will be the reason for unemployment." *


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

*The* *Hindu* *Prophecy:* 


*"Boldness and arrogance will be equivalent to scholarship." 

"Only those without wealth will show honesty." 

"Just a bath will amount to purification, and charity will be the only virtue." 

"Abduction will be marriage." 

'Simply to be well dressed will signify propriety." 

"Any hard-to-reach water will be deemed a pilgrimage site." *


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

*The* *Hindu* *Prophecy:* 


*"The pretense of greatness will be the proof of it, and powerful men with many severe faults will rule over all the classes on Earth." 

"Oppressed by their excessively greedy rulers, people will hide in valleys between mountains, where they will gather honey, vegetables, roots, fruits, birds, flowers, and so forth." 

"Suffering from cold, wind, heat, and rain, they will put on clothes made of tree bark and leaves." 

"And no one will live as long as twenty-three years." 

"Thus in the Kali Age humankind will be utterly destroyed." *


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

Here is an Islamic Prophecy about what is to occur just before we enter into the Age of Aquarius: 

*An* *Islamic* *Prophecy:*

*"The ground will cave in: one in the east, one in the west, and one in Hejaz, Saudi Arabia." 

"Fog or smoke will cover the skies for forty days. Many people will fall conscious, while Muslims and others will be ill (develop colds). The skies will then clear up." 

A night three nights long will follow the fog. It will occur in the month of Zil-Hajj - after Eidul-Ahja, and cause much restlessness among the people." 

"After the night of three nights, the following morning the Sun will rise in the west. People's repentance will not be accepted after this incident. One day later, the Beast from the Earth will miraculously emerge from Mount Safaa in Makkah, causing a split in the ground. The beast will be able to talk to people and mark the faces of people, making the believers' faces glitter, and the nonbelievers' faces darken." 

"A breeze from the south causes sores in the armpits of Muslims, which they will die of as a result. The Ka'aba will be destroyed by a non-Muslim African group. Kufr (Godlessness) will be rampant. Haj (the pilgrimage to Makkah) will be discontinued." 

"The Qur'an will be lifted from the heart of the people, thirty years after the ruler of Muquad's death. The fire will follow people to Syria, after which it will stop." 

"Some years after the fire, Qiyaamah (Islam) begins with the Soor (trumpet) being blown. The year is not known to any person. Qiyaamah will come upon the worst of creation." *


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

The Zil-Hajj is the last month of the Islamic calendar. The Eidul-Ahja means the Festival of Sacrifice. The Ka'aba is an oblong stone building in the center of the Holy City of Makkah.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

This was taken from the Tutankhamun Prophecies of Ancient Egypt. It talks about a reversal of the Earth's magnetic field, which will cause many problems for humans and other Earth inhabitants: 

*The* *Tutankhamun* *Prophecy:*

*"During the Confluence Age (Age after Iron) The sun will reverse it's magnetic field, causing infertility, drought, plague and destruction. This will shake the world to it's foundations."*


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 7, 2007)

This was taken from the lost book of Enki. It is an ancient source which gives hints at the possibility of a Pole-Shift in our future: 

*THE LOST BOOK OF* *ENKI**:* 

*"On the end of the days of judgement, the Earth shall quake and the rivers shall change course, and there shall be darkness at noon and fire in the sky at night." *


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 8, 2007)

Here is an Aborigine Prediction of some of the future events to come: 


*The* *Aborigine* *Prediction:*


_*"I was in dreamtime." 

"I see this great wave going." 

"I tell people about this wave." 

"It wasn't a tidal wave." 

"This was a spiritual wave." 

"So, to me, I believe that the Dreamtime is going to be that." 

"I believe that revival is going to start in Australia when we're dreaming." 

"It's the hummingbee that I'm talking about. And love." 

"We've got to learn to love one another." 

"You see, thats really what's going to happen to the Earth." 

"We're going to have tidal waves." 

"We're going to have Earthquakes." 

"That's coming because we don't consider this land as our Mother." 

"We've taken away the balance, and we're not putting back." 

"I look at the brush, and those trees are alive." 

"They're not dead, they're alive." 

"And they want you to cuddle them." *_


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 9, 2007)

*The* *Sibylline* *Oracles* *prophecy:*

*"And the whole firmament will fall upon the divine earth and on the sea, and then there will be an endless sea of angry flames, and land and sea will burn."*


----------



## JeffWartman (Aug 9, 2007)

...


----------



## NuclearWinter (Aug 9, 2007)

JeffWartman said:


> ...



lol. Look man, in 6 years it won't matter anyways. This stuff is either gonna happen, or it's not. If it happens, this thread may have helped explain it. If it doesn't...I will never put so much time and energy into a subject again.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*ANCIENT* *HOPI* *INDIAN PROPHECIES:*


ANCIENT HOPI INDIAN LEGENDS predict "before the great Purification, they will make metal roads for iron horses [trains and train tracks] and hang metal ropes [power lines] in the air." The last danger sign is that "first they will bring back pieces of the Moon. Purification will begin shortly after humans build a great house in the sky" [space station?] 

Implications for us: The Hopi predictions are probably the most important for the U. S. The Hopi have made their ancient legends known to the world because they belive that we are quickly approaching a crossroads. They believe that the signs are pointing to the likelihood that we are going to end up on a very unpleasant path unless we change our ways, and quickly. The Hopi legends speak of prior human epochs when people rose to great technological heights only to destroy themselves. They believe that we need the spiritual and technological to fuse to survive. 

Each has developed seperately and must now reunite. Legend predicts that the "last stage before the Great Purification will be when the white man comes into the Four Corners area and tries to take it. If we dig precious things from the land we will perish." (Congress in 1985 passed the Restoration Act to move Hopi and Navajo tribes out of Four Corners so that the U.S. could mine the reservation lands.) 

"There will be fires everywhere," Hopi legends warn. In December of 1998, the U. S. Weather Service reported that they expect a major Dust Bowl to develop in the near future. It could stretch from Texas to Minnesota and be much worse than the most recent Dust Bowl that caused so much hardship. This one is expected to last decades. There have been other great droughts in the U.S. - one 300 years ago in the late 1600's and the other 300 years before that in the late 1300's. ( Are you sensing a pattern here?) If the drought ends up to be as intense as predicted, the fires that will likely be caused by it may be the 'Purification' that the Hopi refer to.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*AN ANCIENT* *HOPI* *PROPHECY:*


*"The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin. This the elders everywhere know. The Signs over many years have been fulfilled, and so few are left. 

"This is the First Sign: We were told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana -- men who took the land that was not theirs and who struck their enemies with thunder. (Guns) 

"This is the Second Sign: Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices. (Covered wagons) 

"This is the Third Sign: A strange beast like a buffalo but with great long horns, will overrun the land in large numbers. (Longhorn cattle) 

"This is the Fourth Sign: The land will be crossed by snakes of iron. (Railroad tracks) 

"This is the Fifth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web. (Power and telephone lines) 

"This is the Sixth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed with rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun. (Concrete roads and their mirage-producing effects.) 

"This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it. (Oil spills) 

"This is the Eighth Sign: You will see many youth, who wear their hair long like our people, come and join the tribal nations, to learn our ways and wisdom. (Hippies) 

"And this is the Ninth and Last Sign: You will hear of a dwelling-place in the heavens, above the earth, that shall fall with a great crash. It will appear as a blue star. Very soon after this, the ceremonies of the Hopi people will cease. 

"These are the Signs that great destruction is here: The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle people in other lands -- those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as the white man has made in the deserts not far from here. Those who stay and live in the places of the Hopi shall be safe. Then there will be much to rebuild. And soon, very soon afterward, Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World. He shall plant the seeds of his wisdom in our hearts. Even now the seeds are being planted. These shall smooth the way to the Emergence into the Fifth World."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

The Hopi also predicted that when the heart of the Hopi land trust is dug up, great disturbances will develop in the balance of nature, for the Hopi holy land is the microcosmic image of the entire planet; any violations of nature in the Four Corners region will be reflected and amplified all over the Earth. 

Martin Gasheseoma said recently that Hopi "elders told us that when the plants blossom in the middle of winter, we would need to go to Santa Fe to warn everyone of suffering and destruction to come unless they change their ways. Last year, in the middle of winter the plants began to blossom." 

How much suffering and destruction will accompany the time of the purification, and what will be its end result? Martin Gasheseoma foretells judgment in front of a big mirror and death to those who are evil and wicked, with only a handful of people surviving in every nation overseas who will then come to this continent, "which we call heaven." 

"All the suffering going on in this country with the tornadoes, floods, and earthquakes is carried on the breath of Mother Earth because she is in pain," says Roberta Blackgoat, an elder of the Independent Dineh (Navajo) Nation at Big Mountain. She explains that the Four Corners area is particularly sacred because it literally holds Mother Earth's internal organs -- coal and uranium which the Bureau of Indian Affairs has allowed the Peabody Coal Mine to mine. "They are trying to take her precious guts out for money," says Blackgoat. "My grandfather told me that coal is like the liver, and uranium is both the heart and lungs of Mother Earth." Hopi and Navajo traditionalists are fighting the mining. 

These life and death matters will be determined when Pahana returns, and theories abound as to Pahana's identity. Since Pahana has also been called the White Brother, and since he is to return from the east, Hopi of past centuries wondered whether he could have been a Spaniard or an Anglo and devised tests for determining the true Pahana, including knowledge of the greeting of brotherhood, similarities of religious beliefs, and possession of the missing piece of the stone tablet. Many were tested, including Catholics, Baptists, and Mormons, but none passed to the satisfaction of traditional Hopi.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*An Ancient* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"The time will come when from the earth will arise a mystic fog which will dilute the minds and hearts of all people."

"When the end is near, we will see a halo of mist around the heavenly bodies. Four times it will appear around the sun as a warning that we must reform, telling us that people of all color must unite and arise for survival, and that we must uncover the causes of our dilemmas."

"So the time will come when we will experience late springs and early frosts, this will be the sign of the returning Ice Age."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*An Ancient* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"There are two water serpents, one at each pole with a warrior sitting on his head and tail. These command nature to warn us by her activities that time is getting short, and we must correct ourselves. If we refuse to heed these warnings, the warriors will let go of the serpents; they will rise up, and all will perish." 

"We are much concerned about the climate. No one seems to be able to predict the weather accurately from day to day. However, we know according to our time markers that it is past due for certain seeds to be planted at their proper time. In recent springs, we were reluctant to plant due to the late snow and cold weather. Once more maybe our ancient prophecy is right, that one day we will plant wearing finger sacks (gloves) clearing away snow with our feet before planting. The summers will become shorter for maturing the corn for harvest."*

*"The question is, will this occur the world over? This would depend on the geographical areas. In the regions with different climates, things will happen in different ways. For instance, tropical land could become a land of ice, and the Arctic region could become tropical. This need not happen if we, the people, get our leaders to do something about the harmful things being done to the environment." *


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

Tropical land becoming Arctic, and vise-versa?

Sounds like a Pole-Shift to me guys....


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*An Ancient* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"Let us take a look into the future through the eyes of our prophets. Hopi were instructed to tell of the Great Purification just ahead of a time when Humankind would once again become highly civilized, tending to become careless and leading us to self-destruction. They said that, along the way, the industrialized world will have certain problems. People will be uncomfortable because of the changing times, and they will have to make adjustments to find new life styles." 

"Industrialized nations will become careless in getting more the resources out of the earth. Believing all these things will last forever, soon natural resources will be depleted. Fuel shortages will occur; industrial machinery will come to a standstill. The machinery used for planting, harvesting and transport will become useless. Supermarket shelves will become empty of farm produce. The farmers and those who grow their own food will not sell their produce. Money will become worthless. The white man with all his intelligence and technology will not be able to repair the damage. We will see extraordinary events in Nature and Earth, including humans."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*An Ancient* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"Modern man looks upon old wisdom and knowledge as dead, useless and no longer respected. Modern man depends on the money system and no longer on Mother Earth for food. According to prophecy when this happens Mother Earth will hide her nourishment because of the view that ancient food is poor man's food. When all food disappears, modern man will try to correct his mistake, the conditions he caused upon the earth through his inventions. He will try to achieve some kind of method to heal the wound, but this will not be possible when we reach the point of no return." 

"The Hopi play a key role in the survival of the human race through their vital communion with the unseen forces that hold nature in balance. The pattern is simple: The whole world will shake and turn red and turn against those who are hindering the Hopi." *


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*An Ancient* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"The final stage, called The Great Day of Purification, has been described as a Mystery Egg in which the forces of the Swastika and the Sun plus a third force symbolized by the color red culminate either in total rebirth or total annihilation; we don't know which. But the choice is yours; war and natural catastrophe may be involved. The degree of violence will be determined by the degree of inequity caused among the peoples of the world and in the balance of nature. In this crisis rich and poor will be forced to struggle as equals in order to survive." 

"The reality that it will be very violent is now almost taken for granted among Traditional Hopi, but man still may lessen the violence by correcting his treatment of nature and fellow man. Ancient, spiritually based communities, such as the Hopi, must especially be preserved and not forced to abandon their wise way of life and the natural resources they have vowed to protect. 

"The man-made system now destroying the Hopi is deeply involved in similar violations throughout the world. The devastating reversal predicted in the prophecies is part of the natural order."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*A* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"We are now faced with great problems, not only here but throughout the land. Ancient cultures are being annihilated. Our people's lands are being taken from them. Why is this happening? It is happening because many have given up or manipulated their original spiritual teachings. The way of life which the Great Spirit has given to all people of the world, whatever your original instructions, are not being honored. It is because of this great sickness called greed, which infects every land and country." 

"Now we are at the very end of our trail. Many people no longer recognize the true path of the Great Spirit. They have, in fact, no respect for the Great Spirit or for our precious Mother Earth, who gives us all life. We were told that someone would try to go up to the moon, that they would bring something back from the moon, and that after that nature would show signs of losing its balance. Now we see that coming about. All over the world, there are now many signs that nature is no longer in balance. Floods, drought, earthquakes, and great storms are occurring constantly and causing much suffering." 

"Now we must look upon each other as brothers and sisters. There is no more time for divisions among people. Today I call upon all of us, from right here at home, Hotevilla, where we too are guilty of gossiping and causing divisions even among our own families, out to the entire world where thievery, war, and lying go on every day. These divisions will not be our salvation. Wars only bring more wars, never peace. Only by joining together in a Spiritual Peace with love in our hearts for one another, love in our hearts for the Great Spirit and Mother Earth, shall we be saved from the terrible Purification Day which is just ahead."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*A* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"We have teachings and prophecies informing us that we must be alert for the signs and omens which will come about to give us courage and strength to stand on our beliefs. Blood will flow. Our hair and our clothing will be scattered upon the earth. Nature will speak to us with its mighty breath of wind. There will be earthquakes and floods causing great disasters, changes in the seasons and in the weather, disappearance of wildlife, and famine in different forms. There will be gradual corruption and confusion among the leaders and the people all over the world, and wars will come about like powerful winds. All of this has been planned from the beginning of creation."* 

*"The Hopi have been placed on this side of the Earth to take care of the land through their ceremonial duties, just as other races of people have been placed elsewhere around the Earth to take care of her in their own ways. Together, we hold the world in balance, revolving properly. If the Hopi nation vanishes, the motion of the Earth will become eccentric, the water will swallow the land, and the people will perish."

"It will be up and down, turmoil, earthquakes, floods, drought. The old people say we are at this stage of life now."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*A* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"Nature itself does not speak with a voice that we can easily understand. Neither can the animals and birds we are threatening with extinction talk to us. Who in this world can speak for nature and the spiritual energy that creates and flows through all life? In every continent are human beings who are like you but who have not separated themselves from the land and from nature. It is through their voice that Nature can speak to us. You have heard those voices and many messages from the four corners of the world today. I have studied comparative religion, and I think in your own nations and cultures you have knowledge of the consequences of living out of balance with nature and spirit."*

*"Nature, the First People and the spirit of our ancestors are giving you loud warnings. Today, you see increasing floods, more damaging hurricanes, hail storms, climate changes and earthquakes as our prophecies said would come. Even animals and birds are warning us with strange change in their behavior such as the beaching of whales. Why do animals act like they know about the earth's problems and most humans act like they know nothing? If we humans do not wake up to the warnings, the great purification will come to destroy this world just as the previous worlds were destroyed."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

*A* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"There are two paths. The first with technology but separate from natural and spiritual law leads to these jagged lines representing chaos. The lower path is one that remains in harmony with natural law. Here we see a line that represents a choice like a bridge joining the paths. If we return to spiritual harmony and live from our hearts, we can experience a paradise in this world. If we continue only on this upper path, we will come to destruction."* 

*"The more we turn away from the instructions of the Great Spirit, the more signs we see in the form of earthquakes, floods, drought, fires, tornadoes, as Nature makes ready her revenge. All of this will happen at one time along with the wars and corruption."*

*"Let us consider this matter seriously so that this world is not destroyed, so that we can continue to live and save this land and life for the generations to come."*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

The Hopi also have prophesied that "Turtle Island could turn over two or three times and the oceans could join hands and meet the sky." This seems to be a prophecy of a "pole shift" -- a flipping, of the planet on its axis. The Hopi call this imminent condition -- and that of society today -- "Koyaanisqatsi", which means "world out of balance...a state of life that calls for another way. "


*A* *Hopi* *Indian Prophecy:*

*"Many shall be destroyed for their sins and evil ways. The Great Spirit has decreed it and no one can stop it, change it, or add anything to it. It shall be fulfilled!"*


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

Hopi prophecy also tells us that there will be a mass migration of Indians northward from Mexico and Central and South America. The movement is said to come after the "huge fire and explosion" that will herald the advent of the True White Brother.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 11, 2007)

I know..I know...

I'm the guy wearing the big tin foil hat right?

And yet...all of these cultures and prophecies are stating the exact same thing. And almost none of the people who gave them knew eachother, and some of them are separated by thousands of years.

So....what it comes down to people is this. Are you going to let "the crowd" tell you that this stuff is nonsense? And that it's not going to happen? And that all of this is a bunch of bull and that you will be labeled a fool for believing it? Or....are you going to become a leader, and put the pieces together, and realize that these prophecies are all warnings to us, and that the time of the Pole-Shift is right around the corner, and that the time to take this serious has already passed, and we need to pull together, regardless of what society tells us, and start making plans and preparations for eachother's survival!


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


Nostradamus, (December 14, 1503 &#8211; July 1, 1566) born Michel de Nostredame, is one of the world's most famous authors of prophecies. He is most famous for his book Les Propheties, which consists of rhymed quatrains (4&#8209;line poems) grouped into sets of 100, called Centuries. 

Nostradamus enthusiasts have credited him with predicting an amazing number of events in world history, including the French Revolution, the atom bomb, and the rise of Adolf Hitler. 

What may be most astounding are some of his predictions for our current century (describing what looks like a pole shift + the after-effects) which I will be posting in the next few threads.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:* 


_*"You will see a great transformation at the turn of a century, 

Extreme horror, a judgement upon the wicked. 

The Moon inclined at another Angle, 

The Sun will appear higher in it's orbit."*_ 


*NOTE:* 

This sounds just like a Pole-Shift/global wabble of the Earth's axis of a monsterous proportion.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:* 


_*"There will be a solar eclipse more dark and gloomy than many since the creation of the 

World, Except after the death of Christ. 

And it shall be in October that a great movement of the Earth shall happen. 

And it will be such that one will think the gravity of the Earth has lost it's balance, 

And that it will be plunged into the abyss and perpetual blackness of space. 

There will be portents and signs in the spring, extreme changes, nations overthrown, Earthquakes."*_ 


*NOTE:* 

In this one Nostradamus seems to be trying to give the exact month for the Pole Shift. He states October. So my guess would be sometime within the range of October of 2009-October 2012?


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)*


*Nostradamus:*


_*"The sun, twenty degrees into Taurus

There will be a tremendous Earthquake,

The greater theater filled will be ruined,

The air, Heaven and the Earth will be dark and obscure

When the unbelievers call on God and the Saints."*_


(This one appears to be another prediction related to the Pole Shift)


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:* 


_*"A swift and severe rain will abruptly halt two armies, 

Celestial hail and descending fires will cover the sea with Pumice, 

Death on Seven continents, 

And seas (the World) sudden." *_


*NOTE:* 

Again, this sounds like he's describing a major Earth changing event just at the peak of WW3. 

Any event powerful enough to cause massive destruction and "Death" on Seven Continents, as well as all of the seas in the World, can pretty much only be explained by the destruction of a Pole-Shift.


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)*


*Nostradamus:*


_*"At the forty-eighth degree of latitude,

At the end of Cancer there is

a very great drought....distress from fire in the sky."*_


(This one seems to be related to the Pole-Shift).


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)*


*Nostradamus:*


_*"The great city of the maritime ocean,

Surrounded by a swamp of crystal:

In the solstice and the spring

Will be tried by a terrible wind."*_


(This one could possibly describe a city (or a country) falling under the effects of the winds that accompany a Pole-Shift.)


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:* 


_*"For fourty years the rainbow will not appear. 

For fourty years it will appear everyday. 

The dry Earth will become more parched, 

And there will be great floods when it is seen." *_


(Here he appears to again be describing the "floods" that accompany a Pole-Shift. Also he mentions disturbances in the sky. Another effect of the Pole-Shift. Dry Earth..another effect.)


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## NuclearWinter (Aug 12, 2007)

*NOSTRADAMUS'S PREDICTIONS FOR THIS CENTURY (2000 - 2100)* 


*Nostradamus:* 


_*"The great famine I see drawing near 

Turns one way, then another, 

then becomes universal. 

So great and long that they will pluck the root from the tree and the child from the breast."*_ 


(This obviously describes a servere "great famine" that will most likely come either right before, during, or after the Pole-Shift, and which will involve the entire World).


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 26, 2008)

Sorry I haven't been able to finish this thread yet guys I have been very buisy for awhile now with some other projects but this thread is still only about 65% complete at the moment and I plan to finish it eventually. It won't be too much longer for those who may have been curious.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 26, 2008)

World War I, also known as the First World War, the Great War and the War To End All Wars, was a global military conflict which took place primarily in Europe and which started in 1914 (The Chinese year of the Tiger). Over 40 million casualties resulted, including approximately 20 million military and civilian deaths.

World War II, or the Second World War, was a global military conflict, the amalgamation of what had initially been two separate conflicts. The first began in Asia in 1937 (The Chinese year of the Ox), and tensions between countries really started to heat up during the next year 1938 (The Chinese year of the Tiger) as countries started provoking eachother into war, as the Second Sino-Japanese War; the other began in Europe in 1939 (The Chinese year of the Rabbit) with the German invasion of Poland.

The Korean War was an escalation of a civil war between two rival Korean regimes, each of which was supported by external powers, with each trying to topple the other through political and guerilla tactics. After failing to strengthen their cause in the free elections held in South Korea during May 1950 (The Chinese year of the Tiger) and the refusal of South Korea to hold new elections per North Korean demands, the communist North Korean Army moved south on June 25, 1950 (The Chinese year of the Tiger) to attempt to reunite the Korean peninsula.


This is very interesting to me. Because in our modern era, these were the 3 biggest wars in our history. They involved not just 1 or 2 nations, but many nations. And they all started around the same exact time in relation to Astrology. (The chinese year of the Tiger).

The possible World War 3 that we may have coming to us soon (within the next 2 years), will again, occur at the exact same time as the above 3 wars did. Which is during or right next to the Chinese year of the Tiger. 

The Chinese year of the Tiger is famous for being a time when Nations around the World begin to poke and provoke eachother into battle. It will be interesting what the Universe has in store for us in 2010 (The Chinese year of the Tiger).


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## actsnoblemartin (Jan 26, 2008)

interesting, i dont think people should ignore this.


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## akiboy (Jan 27, 2008)

*


NuclearWinter said:



			The Chinese year of the Tiger is famous for being a time when Nations around the World begin to poke and provoke eachother into battle. It will be interesting what the Universe has in store for us in 2010 (The Chinese year of the Tiger).
		
Click to expand...

*
World War 3 has already started. 2010 will be the year when THIS war will get worse.With Iran & N.K going nuclear, Pakistan falling into the hands of Mullahs,China testing space based weapons there is plenty in store for us in 2010!


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## NuclearWinter (Feb 7, 2008)

*FEBRUARY 5TH, 2008 - DEADLIEST TORNADO OUTBREAK IN 20 YEARS:


JACKSON, Tennessee (CNN) -- Tornadoes and storms in the mid-South have killed 54 people since Tuesday evening in the deadliest tornado outbreak in the United States in more than 20 years.


The trail of death stretched across four states, with four people killed in Alabama, 13 in Arkansas, seven in Kentucky and 30 in Tennessee.

In some cases, there was almost no warning before the severe weather hit. 

James Baskin of Jackson, Tennessee, was driving a car when a twister "just picked us up and threw us," he said. 

Everyone in the car was injured, including his daughter's friend, who suffered a broken collarbone.

President Bush said Wednesday he had called the governors of the affected states to offer help and to tell them that "the American people hold those who suffered up in prayer."

The Federal Emergency Management Agency was deploying teams to the area, Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff said Wednesday. 

"We're going to keep watching this," he said.  

The newest deaths were reported in Sumner County, Tennessee, where two victims were found outside a house that had been blown away by the storm, said Jay Austin, the county's primary death investigator. 

Elsewhere in the area, a mother was found dead in a creek bed about 50 yards from where her house stood. Her baby was found alive 250 yards away. The child was taken to a local hospital, Austin said. 

Meanwhile, the Tennessee Highway Patrol reported looting in hard-hit Macon County, where 12 people died, CNN affiliate WSMV reported.

Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen, who flew over the disaster area Wednesday, said he was stunned by the storm's power.  Watch Bredesen describe a 'nightmare' &#187;

"I don't think that I have seen, since I've been governor, a tornado where the combination of the intensity of it and the length of the track was as large as this one," Bredesen said.

"That track had to be 25 miles long. [The twister] didn't skip like a lot of them do. ... It's just 25 miles of a tornado sitting on the ground."

In Jackson, Tennessee, a tornado trapped Union University students and retirees in collapsed buildings, said Julie Oaks, a spokeswoman for the state's Emergency Management Agency.  Watch how the tornado devastated the campus &#187;

"It looks like a war zone," said university President David Dockery. "Cars and trucks thrown from one side of the campus to the other."

Dockery said the women's dorms were destroyed, along with two academic buildings. Many other school buildings received lesser damage.  

To the west, a tornado swept through the southeastern section of Memphis in Shelby County. The storms yanked the roof off a hangar at Memphis International Airport, the National Weather Service said. 

Oaks said one person was killed at the Hickory Ridge Mall in Shelby County. 

Company officials believe a tornado hit a compressor station for the Columbia Gulf Transmission company in Hartsville, Tennessee, about 40 miles northeast of Nashville, setting off a spectacular natural gas fire.  Watch flames leap hundreds of feet &#187;

The blaze could be seen in the night sky for miles around, with flames shooting "400, 500 feet in the air," said Tennessee Emergency Management spokesman Donnie Smith.

The station was damaged significantly, but there were no reports of injuries or fatalities, said Columbia spokesman Kelly Merritt. "We would not have had any employees there [overnight]." The blaze was put out early Wednesday morning, he said.

"It just took the house and everything and my horses and my dog," a shaken Reasonover said, as the glow of the fire lit the sky behind her. "I don't know if they're alive or dead, but we'll make it." 

In Arkansas, the storm killed 13 people in six counties, the state Emergency Management Agency said.

In the city of Atkins, a man, woman and child in the same family were killed, county Judge Jim Ed Gibson told CNN. The storms overturned trucks and other vehicles along Interstate 40, closing the highway briefly, he said.

Storms also ripped through Kentucky, killing at least seven people. A state of emergency was declared in Muhlenberg County, and Kentucky National Guard troops were deployed, state emergency spokesman Buddy Rogers said.

In Alabama, the storms killed four people, three in Lawrence County and one in Jackson County, officials said. 

Resident Roger Riddle said that when he heard the tornado siren, he rounded up his children and took them to a community storm shelter.

When he emerged, he saw the twister traveling away from them and "total destruction."

"We've got things tore up, and the house across the road from us is completely gone," Riddle said. 

In Mississippi, the director of the state's Emergency Management Agency, Mike Womack, estimated that 20 to 30 tornadoes pounded the state in areas above the state capital of Jackson.

"We have no reported fatalities, and that is extremely fortunate," he said, given the havoc the storm caused.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/02/06/tornadoes/index.html


And this is only the beginning guys. The Pole-Shift is not too far off now. Maybe 3-5 years away Maximum. *


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## Taomon (Feb 7, 2008)

NuclearWinter said:


> I am going to list a mix of current information and psychic predictions for the World War that is supposed to occur within the next 3 years involving China, Libya, Syria, USA, Russia, and a few others.
> 
> All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics who have been tested over time and who have proven themselves time and time again.
> 
> ...



What does Nostradamus say?


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## Taomon (Feb 7, 2008)

Taomon said:


> What does Nostradamus say?


Nothing, he is dead


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## NuclearWinter (Sep 10, 2008)

Just a little update. I can't believe how December 21st, 2012 is soon to be less than 4 years away! =) I am very excited to see what happens as we get closer and closer to that famous date.


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## Gunny (Sep 10, 2008)

NuclearWinter said:


> Just a little update. I can't believe how December 21st, 2012 is soon to be less than 4 years away! =) I am very excited to see what happens as we get closer and closer to that famous date.




It'll be my birthday and as usual, there will be one Hell of a party.  If you try to fuck it up, I will find you ....


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## Odd1_Out (Sep 10, 2008)

What a bunch of superstitious garbage.  Sometimes it seems like the people who think any of this is actually going to happen, secretly want the world to end, or at least they seem somewhat pleased with the notion that it might.  People always seem to enjoy things that alleviate them from having to deal with reality.  You don't have to do anything to try and fix the world, if it is going to end soon anyway, right?


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## Gunny (Sep 10, 2008)

Odd1_Out said:


> What a bunch of superstitious garbage.  Sometimes it seems like the people who think any of this is actually going to happen, secretly want the world to end, or at least they seem somewhat pleased with the notion that it might.  People always seem to enjoy things that alleviate them from having to deal with reality.  You don't have to do anything to try and fix the world, if it is going to end soon anyway, right?



Who cares about the world?  We're talking about my birthday here ...


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## Modbert (Sep 10, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Who cares about the world?  We're talking about my birthday here ...



Perhaps your birthday that day would mark the end of the world.

Is there something your not telling us Gunny?


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## Gunny (Sep 10, 2008)

Robert_Santurri said:


> Perhaps your birthday that day would mark the end of the world.
> 
> Is there something your not telling us Gunny?


----------



## Modbert (Sep 10, 2008)

Gunny said:


>



I knew it! Your're the anti-christ!

Everyone run for your lives!!


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## Gunny (Sep 10, 2008)

Robert_Santurri said:


> I knew it! Your're the anti-christ!
> 
> Everyone run for your lives!!



No, but I usually see him on my birthday.


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## Modbert (Sep 10, 2008)

Gunny said:


> No, but I usually see him on my birthday.



Oh really? Can you drink him under the table?


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## DavidS (Nov 16, 2008)

NuclearWinter said:


> I am going to list a mix of current information and psychic predictions for the World War that is supposed to occur within the next 3 years involving China, Libya, Syria, USA, Russia, and a few others.
> 
> All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics who have been tested over time and who have proven themselves time and time again.
> 
> ...



Hmmm... one more year left to see if the psychics are really psychics or scam artists.


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## CrimsonWhite (Nov 17, 2008)

I forgot all about this thread. What ever happened to Nuclear Winter?

And how in the hell has this thread not been moved to Conspiracy Theories?


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## mightypeon (Nov 17, 2008)

Indeed, but its a conspiracy theory where a lot of effort went into


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## seth1492 (Nov 17, 2008)

What the crap... This is the longest crappiest thread I have ever seen!  It was like 100 pages of conspiracy garbage.  This forum shouldn't have 100 pages of that crap.  If nuclear winter wanted to tell us about that then they should have directed interested people to a website.  That is outrageous.  I hope they get banned!  

Besides conspiracy theories are so bogus... "everyone is not always out to get you because to be honest, your really not that cool."


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## eots (Nov 17, 2008)

Gunny said:


> No, but I usually see him on my birthday.


see ...you people thought I  was kidding about the new owner....


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## eots (Nov 17, 2008)

Planet X Nibiru on FOX News 

planet x - Google Video


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## chloe (Nov 17, 2008)

Gunny said:


> You mean it'll take 6 years to read the thread?



HA HA I laughed out really!!!


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## chloe (Nov 17, 2008)

NuclearWinter said:


> What will it take to propel us all into action before time runs out? The Controllers have already allowed for the leveling of the World Trade Centers, and look at what happened when they did. I don't want to minimize the effects of that atrocity, but believe me, that was only the first step.
> 
> The next time they decide to "bring us to our knees", we won't know what hit us. If 9-11 was a slap in the face, stage two of their evil plan will be a full-blown knockout punch. Then what are we going to do? There were people who experienced full-blown depression for at least three months after 9-11. How in the heck are they going to cope with an unleashed total assault on our collective consciousness? The effect will be debilitating, if not altogether crippling.
> 
> America, hidden forces are deliberately laying the groundwork to destroy this Great Nation. If we don't stop them soon, everything we've earned and come to enjoy will be lost!




I clicked on the link NuclearWinter has at the end of every one of his posts and its a mesage board he is still posting at today....he he


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 17, 2008)

chloe said:


> I clicked on the link NuclearWinter has at the end of every one of his posts and its a mesage board he is still posting at today....he he


I went there also. Did you notice he is a Mod on that board!!!


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## chloe (Nov 17, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> I went there also. Did you notice he is a Mod on that board!!!



I didnt look that deep, you are more thorough then me ...., he could be fun to have around


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## dilloduck (Nov 17, 2008)

chloe said:


> I didnt look that deep, you are more thorough then me ...., he could be fun to have around



oh man---please go there to "enjoy" him !


----------



## chloe (Nov 17, 2008)

no need to pray about it, Im sure if I feel inclined I will


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2008)

*Storm cuts power to more than 1 million customers*

*By DAVID TIRRELL-WYSOCKI, Associated Press Writer
Writer 3 mins ago*

*CONCORD, N.H. * An ice storm knocked out power Friday to 1.25 million homes and businesses from Maine to Pennsylvania, closing schools and tying up travel, and authorities say it could take days for all customers to get service back. "This is pathetic," said Bob Cott, in Portland, Maine, who lost power for the first time in 10 years. "I'm already sick of winter and we have nine days to go before it officially begins."

The storm brought rain, freezing rain, sleet and snow through Thursday night, and in some areas the miserable mix was continuing Friday. For New Hampshire, the power outages dwarfed those during the infamous Ice Storm of '98, when some residents spent more than a week in the dark.

The governors of Massachusetts and New Hampshire declared states of emergency Friday morning, and schools were closed and travel disrupted across the region. New Hampshire's court system canceled most hearings and trials for the day.

"I urge all New Hampshire citizens to take sensible precautions and heed all warnings from public officials," Gov. John Lynch said.

Fire departments were responding to reports of transformer explosions, wires and utility poles down and trees falling on homes. Utility crews were so busy dealing with public safety hazards like live power lines that they weren't immediately able to begin restoration efforts.

Utilities reported 392,000 homes and businesses without power in New Hampshire, including 300,000 served by the state's largest, Public Service Company of New Hampshire. By contrast, the 1998 storm left 55,000 Public Service customers without power.

"This is the absolute, most significant power restoration effort we've ever had. There has not been a storm before that has affected more customers," Public Service spokesman Martin Murray said.

In Hampstead, N.H., Mark Cegelis, 36, said things were hectic at his neighborhood gas station, which was jammed with people trying to get gas for home generators.

"It's kind of lawless out there right now. There's a lot of people very frustrated, stacking up at the gas stations. It's pretty ugly."

He bought 21 gallons for himself and tried to deliver some to some friends in Derry but couldn't get there because of downed trees blocking roads. So his friends came to him instead, and were expected to hunker down until power was restored.

The ice storm extended to Pennsylvania, where about 4,700 customers, most of them in the Poconos, lost power, and Connecticut, where some 16,500 customers were without electricity at midday. In most areas in those states, though, the big storm system left its mark in the form of heavy rain or rain changing to snow.

Gov. Deval Patrick's emergency declaration in Massachusetts would enable the governor to take further steps, such as mobilizing the National Guard, if needed as the day wore on, officials said.

At a midmorning news conference, Patrick said 350,000 customers across the state were without power  and the number had risen 150,000 homes in just an hour. He said it would be "ambitious" to think power would be restored by Monday.

"This is not going to be a couple of hours," Patrick said. "It's likely to be several days."

In eastern New York, particularly around Albany, the state capital, outages at National Grid and other utilities brought the total in the state to more than 255,000.

"Trees were down on all the roads," said Miguel Figueroa, 28, as he waited for coffee at a Starbucks in Colonie, N.Y. "... I couldn't even get on the Thruway today."

Central Maine Power Co. said more than 190,000 customers in the dark as of late Friday morning, mostly in southern and coastal areas. Bangor Hydro Electric Co. reported more than 11,000 outages.

Maine Gov. John Baldacci declared a limited emergency allowing utility crews to work longer hours.

In Vermont, 25,800 customers were without power Friday morning. Several inches of snow, caked with ice toppled trees onto roads and power lines.

At least 20 Massachusetts towns declared local states of emergency even before the governor made the statewide declaration.

"Stay home if you live in Holden; don't come to Holden if you work here," Holden, Mass., fire Chief Jack Chandler said. The entire town was without power and some senior citizens on oxygen were transported to a hospital or a shelter opened at the town's senior center.

___

Associated Press writers Holly Ramer in Concord, N.H.; Mark Pratt in Boston; Clarke Canfield in Portland, Maine; John Curran and Lisa Rathke in Montpelier, Vt.; and Mike Hill and Jessica M. Pasko in Albany, N.Y., contributed to this report.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 12, 2008)

*Rare snow covers south Louisiana, Miss.*

*By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN, Associated Press Writer  Thu Dec 11, 2008

NEW ORLEANS * A rare snowfall blanketed south Louisiana and parts of Mississippi Thursday, closing schools, government offices and bridges, triggering crashes on major highways and leaving thousands of people without power.

Up to 8 inches of snow was reported in parts of Louisiana. Snow also covered a broad swath of Mississippi, including the Jackson area, and closed schools in more than a dozen districts.

A heavy band of snow coated windshields and grassy areas in New Orleans, where about an inch accumulated. A peak of 8 inches was reported in Amite, about 75 miles northwest of New Orleans, said meteorologist Danielle Manning of the National Weather Service in Slidell.

Office workers stepped out of high-rises to catch a snowflake, snap pictures with cell-phone cameras and swap snow stories.

At a park in New Orleans' Uptown neighborhood, Sara Echaniz, 41, took photos and dodged snowballs thrown by her son, 3-year-old Sam. "He didn't believe it was snow until it started sticking to the ground," said Ecahniz, a native of Rochester, N.Y., who was pregnant with the child the last time it snowed in New Orleans, in December 2004.

In Mississippi, up to 5 inches of snow fell on areas south of Jackson. The snow in Mississippi and Louisiana was clearing out Thursday afternoon, but forecasters warned that freezing temperatures could make for treacherous driving conditions overnight.

In Alabama, storms dumped more than 3 inches of rain across northern parts of the state ahead of a blast of cold air and added precipitation that forecasters said could turn into a wintry mix. Several of the state's school systems dismissed students early because of the possibility of flooding or snow.

Flood watches were issued through Thursday night for much of North Carolina ahead of the storm system. Colder air behind the front could produce snow late Thursday and early Friday in the mountains.

In Louisiana, roughly 10,0000 power outages were reported by Cleco Corp., one of the state's largest power providers. The company said it expected most of the outages to be restored by nightfall.

Some morning flights at Louis Armstrong International Airport outside New Orleans were delayed and canceled, but airport spokeswoman Michelle Wilcut said the facility was in "back-to-normal mode" by early Thursday afternoon.

In southeast Louisiana, temperatures were above freezing so accumulations were not expected to linger much beyond Thursday.

The wintry weather is rare in south Louisiana. The weather service said the previous earliest date for measurable snowfall in New Orleans was Dec. 22, 1989.


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 18, 2008)

*Las Vegas gets record snowfall, 3.6 inches*

*Thursday, December 18, 2008*

A rare pre-winter storm brought Las Vegas its heaviest snowfall in nearly three decades, closing the airport and freeways as several inches coated marquees on the Las Vegas Strip and weighed down palm trees.

The storm Wednesday and early Thursday also dumped snow on rain on much of southern California and parts of Nevada outside Las Vegas.

The National Weather Service measured 3.6 inches of snow overnight at Las Vegas' McCarran International Airport, and meteorologist Jerome Jacques said about 2 inches was left before dawn on the ground near the "Welcome to Fabulous Las Vegas" sign.

"Snow is not unknown in the Las Vegas valley. On average we get 1/2 inch of snow a year," Jacques said. "But this amount made it a significant storm. We haven't had this amount of snow since 1979."

The weather service recorded 7.5 inches of snow at McCarran on Jan. 30-31, 1979.
The snow Wednesday prompted the cancellation of all flights in and out of Vegas. Visitors parked and posed for pictures wearing hooded jackets.

Other parts of Nevada were forecast to receive as much as 8 inches of snow in the second winter storm this week to drop snow on the desert city. Snowfall is common in nearby mountains hills, but not on the Strip or surrounding neighborhoods.

Elsewhere, snow shut Interstate 15 over 4,190-foot Cajon Pass east of Los Angeles. By early Thursday, just a single lane on the southbound side was open, as officers escorted a small stream of drivers through the pass.

Interstate 5, a major trucking and travel route connecting Southern California with the Central Valley and Northern California was shut down over 4,144-foot Tejon Pass, and roads through the San Gabriel Mountains connecting metropolitan Los Angeles to the commuter suburbs of Palmdale and Lancaster in the high desert to the north also were closed.

An overflowing river on the U.S.-Mexico border Wednesday led to the evacuation of nearly two dozen people and rescues of about 50 horses.

Snow also fell across much of Washington state on Wednesday, with Spokane, in the northeast part of the state, declaring a snow emergency and vowing that its snowplows would be working nonstop until the streets were clear.

Most areas of Spokane had picked up 8 inches of snow by evening, with another 5-10 inches expected by daybreak Thursday, said National Weather Service meteorologist Jeffrey Cote.

Massive backups developed below all the passes, which authorities hope to have reopened Thursday.

The storm dumped as much as 4 feet of snow at Big Bear in the San Bernardino Mountains, said James Oh, a forecaster with the National Weather Service in San Diego.

Schools were closed Thursday, many of them for the fourth straight day, in several high desert and mountain districts.

And soldiers at Fort Irwin near Barstow were unable to deploy to Iraq Wednesday as planned because of the snowy conditions.

Calen Weiss, 19, of Tarzana, his brother and two friends wanted to go snowboarding at Big Bear but instead got stuck on I-15 in Cajon Pass for an hour as visibility fell to about 40 yards.

"It looks like Whoville, all snowy, but with less joy and more extreme misery," he said by phone from the Summit Inn. 

Heavy rain also fell in some parts of Southern California through the day. 

Near the California-Mexico border, San Diego firefighters and lifeguards evacuated 21 people along the overflowing Tijuana River, said spokesman Maurice Luque. They included 12 to 15 people who were on high ground outside a home, surrounded by up to 4 feet of water. 

Five people were taken out by helicopter, while others were escorted in Border Patrol all-terrain vehicles, Luque said. Three men were taken to a hospital for treatment of hypothermia. 

About 50 horses also were evacuated, but three others drowned and one was euthanized after tripping on barbed wire, Luque said. 

In the Santa Clarita area north of Los Angeles, a wind gust caused a helicopter to crash, killing an electrical worker on the ground and leaving the pilot with minor injuries, county fire Inspector Frank Garrido said. 

Even Malibu got a dusting of snow, as the usually balmy city saw a half-inch in the afternoon. 

"It's kind of cool if you think about it, said Craig Levy, director of a juvenile detention camp. "It's kind of unusual to see snow in Malibu." 

___ 

Associated Press Writers Solvej Schou and Daisy Nguyen in Los Angeles and Elliot Spagat in San Diego contributed to this report.

Las Vegas gets record snowfall, 3.6 inches - Yahoo! News


----------



## NuclearWinter (Dec 18, 2008)

*Frigid Storm Closes California Freeways, Drops Snow in Malibu*

*Thursday, December 18, 2008*

*LOS ANGELES *  Snow snarled major mountain highways and even dusted Malibu on Wednesday as a cold storm hit parts of California. One person was killed by a wind-related helicopter crash, and an overflowing river on the U.S.-Mexico border led to the evacuation of nearly two dozen people, rescues of about 50 horses and the deaths of four others.

Styming thousands of commuters and travelers, snow shut Interstate 15 over 4,190-foot Cajon Pass east of Los Angeles and roads through the San Gabriel Mountains connecting metropolitan Los Angeles to the commuter suburbs of Palmdale and Lancaster in the high desert to the north.

Interstate 5, a major trucking and travel route connecting Southern California with the Central Valley and Northern California, stayed open over 4,144-foot Tejon Pass most of the day, with on-and-off Highway Patrol escorts, then finally was shut down in the afternoon as conditions deteriorated. Massive backups developed below all the passes.

Calen Weiss, 19, of Tarzana, his brother and two friends wanted to go snowboarding at Big Bear in the San Bernardino Mountains but instead got stuck on I-15 in Cajon Pass for an hour as visibility fell to about 40 yards.

"It looks like Whoville, all snowy, but with less joy and more extreme misery," he said by phone from the Summit Inn.

Heavy rain also fell in some parts of Southern California through the day.

Near the California-Mexico border, San Diego firefighters and lifeguards evacuated 21 people along the overflowing Tijuana River, said spokesman Maurice Luque. They included 12 to 15 people who were on high ground outside a home, surrounded by up to 4 feet of water.

Five people were taken out by helicopter, while others were escorted in Border Patrol all-terrain vehicles, Luque said. Three men were taken to a hospital for treatment of hypothermia.

About 50 horses also were evacuated, but three others drowned and one was euthanized after tripping on barbed wire, Luque said.

To the east, several vehicles collided and slid into ditches on Interstate 8's mountainous grades as heavy snow fell at the San Diego-Imperial County line. Other vehicles were stuck on the steep upgrade, their wheels spinning on the snow-packed surface, according to the California Highway Patrol.

Blowing snow, slush and ice prompted the Antelope Valley Transit Authority to cancel all its local buses, along with 18 commuter runs that usually carry some 650 people from the Palmdale-Lancaster area down to Los Angeles and back home.

The regional Metrolink rail system agreed to carry bus commuters who had already reached Los Angeles back home, spokesman Francisco Oaxaca said.

However, trains were ordered to proceed slowly because of the snow. Two trains also were delayed around 45 minutes at midday because engineers could not see the red, green and yellow track signals.

*It was the first time in his 15 years with Metrolink that snow had caused such problems, Oaxaca said.*

Transit agencies in the East have special equipment to clear tracks and otherwise handle snow but "we're not equipped for this kind of weather on a consistent basis in this part of the world," Oaxaca said.

In the Santa Clarita area north of Los Angeles, a wind gust caused a helicopter to crash, killing an electrical worker on the ground and leaving the pilot with minor injuries, county fire Inspector Frank Garrido said.

The helicopter was hired by Southern California Edison to string electrical lines between power poles in the Bouquet Canyon area.

"It was hovering above the ground. A gust of wind made the helicopter spiral," Garrido said.

Garrido said the accident report stated that the dead man was an Edison employee, but utility spokesman Steve Conroy said the victim was employed by the company operating the helicopter.

Late in the afternoon snow fell in the Malibu area.

"It's a combination of snow and rain, so none of the snow is sticking on the ground," said Craig Levy, director of a juvenile detention camp near Mulholland Highway. "It's kind of cool if you think about it. It's kind of unusual to see snow in Malibu."

More severe cold was on the way, the National Weather Service said.

Freeze warnings were issued for late Wednesday through Thursday morning for the Sacramento Valley, the northern San Joaquin Valley and the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta region, among others.

"A freeze warning means subfreezing temperatures are imminent or highly likely. These conditions will kill crops and other sensitive vegetation," the NWS said.

Freeze warnings were also issued for north San Francisco Bay area valleys, and a combination of frost advisories and freeze warnings were issued for parts of southwestern California.

FOXNews.com - Frigid Storm Closes California Freeways, Drops Snow in Malibu - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News


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## irie (Dec 18, 2008)

nuclear winter has *WAYYYYY* to much time on his/her hands.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 20, 2008)

* Dec. 16, 2008: 

NASA's five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a breach in Earth's magnetic field ten times larger than anything previously thought to exist. Solar wind can flow in through the opening to "load up" the magnetosphere for powerful geomagnetic storms. But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics. *


*A Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field*

*12.16.2008 

Dec. 16, 2008:* NASA's five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a breach in Earth's magnetic field ten times larger than anything previously thought to exist. Solar wind can flow in through the opening to "load up" the magnetosphere for powerful geomagnetic storms. But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics.

"At first I didn't believe it," says THEMIS project scientist David Sibeck of the Goddard Space Flight Center. "This finding fundamentally alters our understanding of the solar wind-magnetosphere interaction."

The magnetosphere is a bubble of magnetism that surrounds Earth and protects us from solar wind. Exploring the bubble is a key goal of the THEMIS mission, launched in February 2007. The big discovery came on June 3, 2007, when the five probes serendipitously flew through the breach just as it was opening. Onboard sensors recorded a torrent of solar wind particles streaming into the magnetosphere, signaling an event of unexpected size and importance.

"The opening was hugefour times wider than Earth itself," says Wenhui Li, a space physicist at the University of New Hampshire who has been analyzing the data. Li's colleague Jimmy Raeder, also of New Hampshire, says "1027 particles per second were flowing into the magnetospherethat's a 1 followed by 27 zeros. This kind of influx is an order of magnitude greater than what we thought was possible."

The event began with little warning when a gentle gust of solar wind delivered a bundle of magnetic fields from the Sun to Earth. Like an octopus wrapping its tentacles around a big clam, solar magnetic fields draped themselves around the magnetosphere and cracked it open. The cracking was accomplished by means of a process called "magnetic reconnection." High above Earth's poles, solar and terrestrial magnetic fields linked up (reconnected) to form conduits for solar wind. Conduits over the Arctic and Antarctic quickly expanded; within minutes they overlapped over Earth's equator to create the biggest magnetic breach ever recorded by Earth-orbiting spacecraft.

The size of the breach took researchers by surprise. "We've seen things like this before," says Raeder, "but never on such a large scale. The entire day-side of the magnetosphere was open to the solar wind."

The circumstances were even more surprising. Space physicists have long believed that holes in Earth's magnetosphere open only in response to solar magnetic fields that point south. The great breach of June 2007, however, opened in response to a solar magnetic field that pointed north.

"To the lay person, this may sound like a quibble, but to a space physicist, it is almost seismic," says Sibeck. "When I tell my colleagues, most react with skepticism, as if I'm trying to convince them that the sun rises in the west."

Here is why they can't believe their ears: The solar wind presses against Earth's magnetosphere almost directly above the equator where our planet's magnetic field points north. Suppose a bundle of solar magnetism comes along, and it points north, too. The two fields should reinforce one another, strengthening Earth's magnetic defenses and slamming the door shut on the solar wind. In the language of space physics, a north-pointing solar magnetic field is called a "northern IMF" and it is synonymous with shields up! 

"So, you can imagine our surprise when a northern IMF came along and shields went down instead," says Sibeck. "This completely overturns our understanding of things."

Northern IMF events don't actually trigger geomagnetic storms, notes Raeder, but they do set the stage for storms by loading the magnetosphere with plasma. A loaded magnetosphere is primed for auroras, power outages, and other disturbances that can result when, say, a CME (coronal mass ejection) hits.

The years ahead could be especially lively. Raeder explains: "We're entering Solar Cycle 24. For reasons not fully understood, CMEs in even-numbered solar cycles (like 24) tend to hit Earth with a leading edge that is magnetized north. Such a CME should open a breach and load the magnetosphere with plasma just before the storm gets underway. It's the perfect sequence for a really big event."

Sibeck agrees. "This could result in stronger geomagnetic storms than we have seen in many years."

NASA - A Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field


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## chloe (Dec 20, 2008)

Welcome Back NW, yeah I posted aobut the weather warfare going on.


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 20, 2008)

chloe said:


> Welcome Back NW, yeah I posted aobut the weather warfare going on.



Thanks Chloe. And thanks for keeping us up to date. =)


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## chloe (Dec 20, 2008)

here NW


http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 28, 2008)

Well folks, I hate to be the bearer of bad news (for those who didn't already know this), but the South American Union has already been created. Now I've known this for months, and have been waiting to see if anyone else on the board mentioned it, but apparently, not that many people even know that it had been created. Yet alone that it was created fairly recently, without any news broadcasts that I remember covering it AT ALL. So yes, this means that the New World Order is one step closer to becoming a reality. And guess who is next on the Agenda? Can you say...the United States of America! Thats right. They are purposely trying to crush our economy so that we will be forced to form a North American Union as well. It's no joke folks. It's happening.

*UNASUR*

The Union of South American Nations (Spanish: Unión de Naciones Suramericanas - UNASUR, Portuguese: União de Nações Sul-Americanas - UNASUL, Dutch: Unie van Zuid-Amerikaanse Naties - UZAN) is an intergovernmental union integrating two existing customs unions: Mercosur and the Andean Community, as part of a continuing process of South American integration. It is modelled on the European Union.

The UNASUR Constitutive Treaty was signed on May 23, 2008, at the Third Summit of Heads of State, held in Brasília, Brazil. According to the Constitutive Treaty, the Union's headquarters will be located in Quito, Ecuador. The South American Parliament will be located in Cochabamba, Bolivia, while its bank, the Bank of the South (Dutch: Bank van het Zuiden, Portuguese: Banco do Sul, Spanish: Banco del Sur), will be located in Caracas, Venezuela. The Union's former designation, the South American Community of Nations (Dutch: Zuid-Amerikaanse Statengemeenschap, Portuguese: Comunidade Sul-Americana de Nações, and Spanish: Comunidad de Naciones Sudamericanas), abbreviated as CSN, was dropped at the First South American Energy Summit on April 16, 2007.

At the Third South American Summit on 8 December 2004, presidents or representatives from twelve South American nations signed the Cuzco Declaration, a two-page statement of intent announcing the foundation of the South American Community. Panama and Mexico attended the signing ceremony as observers.

The leaders announced their intention to model the new community after the European Union including a common currency, parliament, and passport. According to Allan Wagner Tizón, former Secretary General of the Andean Community, a complete union like that of the EU should be possible by 2019.

The mechanics of the new entity came out of the First South American Community of Nations Heads of State Summit, which was held in Brasília on 29 September&#8211;30 September 2005. An important operating condition of UNASUR is that no new institutions will be created in the first phase, so as not to increase bureaucracy, and the community will use the existing institutions belonging to the previous trade blocs.

*At the moment, the provisional structure of the UNASUR is as follows:*

The presidents of each member nation will have an annual meeting, which will be the superior political mandate. The first meeting was in Brasília (Brazil) on September 29 and September 30, 2005. The second meeting was in Cochabamba (Bolivia) on December 8 and December 9, 2006. The third meeting was held in Brasília on May 23, 2008. 

The ministers of foreign affairs of each country will meet once every six months. They will formulate concrete proposals of action and of executive decision. The President of the Mercosur's permanent representatives committee and the director of the Mercosur's department, the Andean Community's general secretary, ALADI's general secretary and the permanent secretaries of any institution for regional cooperation and integration, Amazon Cooperation Treaty Organization among others, will also be present at these meetings. 
A Secretary General would be elected, to establish a permanent secretariat in Quito, Ecuador. 

Sectorial Ministers' meeting will be called upon by the presidents. The meetings will be developed according to Mercosur's and CAN's mechanisms. 
The temporary Presidency will be held for a year and will rotate among the member countries between each UNASUR meeting. According to Decisions Reached in the Political Dialogue (Dutch: Besluiten Bereikt in de Politieke Dialoog, Portuguese: Decisões Tomadas no Diálogo Político, Spanish: Decisiones Alcanzadas en el Diálogo Político), which was signed during the I South American Energy Summit, a general permanent office will be created and this will be hosted in Quito, Ecuador. 

On December 9, 2005 a special commission was established in charge of advancing the process of South American Integration (Dutch: Commissie ter Stimulering van het Proces van de Zuid-Amerikaanse Integratie, Portuguese: Comissão Estratégica de Reflexão sobre o Processo de Integração Sul-americana, Spanish: La Comisión Estratégica de Reflexión a cargo de formular propuestas con miras a impulsar el proceso de integración sudamericano en todos sus aspectos). It consists of 12 members, whose function is to elaborate proposals that will help the process of integration between the South American nations. 

Executive Commission, which was created by the II CSN meeting, was transformed in the Political Commission or Delegates Council, according to Decisions Reached in the Political Dialogue (Dutch: Besluiten Bereikt in de Politieke Dialoog, Portuguese: Decisões Tomadas no Diálogo Político, Spanish: Decisiones Alcanzadas en el Diálogo Político).

*Current work in progress*

Presidents and other members of UNASUR at the First Brasília Summit on September 29, 2005. 

Presidents of UNASUR member states at the Second Brasília Summit on May 23, 2008. At the present time the union exists only on paper. The signing of the treaty was delayed from March until late May due to a Colombian raid on a FARC camp in Ecuador, and disputes regarding the conflict and broader trade issues continue to pose an obstacle. Michael Shifter of the Washington D.C. Inter-American Dialogue called UNASUR a "pipe dream for now", while saying that "economic conditions in the region have never been riper for this sort of integration".

*Single market*

One of the initiatives of UNASUR is the creation of a single market, beginning with the elimination of tariffs for non-sensitive products by 2014 and sensitive products by 2019. 

*Infrastructure cooperation*

There is an Initiative for Infrastructure Integration of South America (IIRSA) underway, which has received the support of the Inter-American Development Bank and the Andean Development Corporation. 

UNASUR started plans of integration through infrastructure cooperation with the construction of the Interoceanic Highway, a road that intends to more firmly link the Pacific Coast countries, especially Chile and Peru with Brazil and Argentina by extending highways through the continent, allowing better connections to ports to Bolivia and the inner parts of Argentina, Peru and Brazil. The first corridor, between Peru and Brazil, began construction in September 2005, financed 60% by Brazil and 40% by Peru, is expected to be ready by the end of 2009. 

The South American Energy Ring (Dutch: Zuid-Amerikaanse Energiekring, Portuguese: Anel Energético Sul-Americano, Spanish: Anillo Energético Sudamericano) is intended to interconnect Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay with natural gas from several sources, such as the Camisea Gas Project in Peru and Tarija Gas Deposits in Bolivia. Though this proposal has been signed and ratified, economic and political difficulties in Argentina and Bolivia have delayed this initiative, and to date, this agreement remains more like a protocol than an actual project, since Chile and Brazil are already building LNG terminals to import gas from overseas suppliers. 

*Free movement of people*

Visits by South American citizens to any South American country (except French Guiana) of up to 90 days require only the presentation of an identity card issued by the respective authority of the travellers' country of origin. On 24 November 2006, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela waived visa requirements for tourism travel between nationals of said countries.

*Economic development*

Presidents of the seven founding countries (Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador, Paraguay, Venezuela and Uruguay) officially launched the South American Bank in Buenos Aires in December 2007. The heads of all the founding countries were at the ceremony, with the exception of President Tabaré Vázquez of Uruguay. The capital will be US$7b, with Venezuela responsible for US$3b and Brazil US$2b. The headquarters will be located in Caracas with offices in Buenos Aires and La Paz.

The Bank of the South will finance economic development projects to improve local competitiveness and to promote the scientific and technological development of the member states. Chile and Colombia participated on initial meeting, but they decided not to join the project.

The founding chart affirms that the Bank will promote projects in "stable and equal" manner and priorities will be pointed to reinforce South American integration, to reduce asymmetries, and to promote egalitarian distribution of investments.

The Brazilian Minister, Guido Mantega, stated that the bank is not similar to the International Monetary Fund; it will be a credit institution similar to the World Bank or the BIRD.

*Defense policy*

Venezuela and Brazil have put forward a plan for a South American Defense Council which would draft defense policy and serve as a mechanism for regional security. The proposal is currently under discussion by the member states. Colombia was the only country not to join, as a result of the strong military ties it has with the US through the Plan Colombia. However after reviewing the proposal they decided to join in July 20, 2008.

*Participating nation states*

*Members of the Andean Community of Nations (CAN):* 

Bolivia 
 Colombia 
 Ecuador 
 Peru 
Members of Mercosur: 
 Argentina 
 Brazil 
 Paraguay 
 Uruguay 
Other countries: 
 Guyana
 Suriname
 Chile  
 Venezuela 

*Proposed name change*

On 28 December 2005, Chilean former foreign minister Ignacio Walker proposed that the name of the community be changed to South American Union (Dutch: Zuid-Amerikaanse Unie, Portuguese: União Sul-Americana, Spanish: Unión Sudamericana); nevertheless, many members stated to him that that proposal had already been rejected to prevent confusion related to its acronym (U.S.A. in comparison to the United States of America).

The name was finally changed on April 16, 2007 to "Union of South American Nations" (Dutch: Unie van Zuid-Amerikaanse Naties, Portuguese: União de Nações Sul-Americanas, Spanish: Unión de Naciones Suramericanas), abbreviated "UNASUR" in Spanish and "UNASUL" in Portuguese. The new name was jointly agreed by all member states during the first day of meeting at the South American Energy Summit held at Isla Margarita, Venezuela.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_South_American_Nations


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 28, 2008)

*South American nations to seek common currency [UNASUR/UNASUL]*

*May 28, 2008 9:54:14 PM*

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Monday that South American nations will seek a common currency as part of the region's integration efforts following the creation of the Union of South American Nations (Unasur) last week. 

"We are proceeding so as, in the future, we have a common central bank and a common currency," said Lula in his weekly radio program, noting that this process will "not be fast." 

The president highlighted the importance of helping the group's more "economically fragile" members, such as Paraguay, Uruguay and Bolivia. 

"We have to help them because the stronger the countries in South America economically are, the more tranquility, peace, democracy, trade, companies, jobs, incomes and development," he said. 

The Brazilian leader said the creation of Unasur will allow cross-nation construction of railroads, highways, bridges and transmission lines connecting the region, while the alliance will make negotiations with other blocs easier. 

The president said changes will be made on the proposal to create a regional defense council, which the South American leaders failed to agree during a summit in Brasilia on Friday. 

A working group is expected to analyze the revised proposal in August, he said. 

Lula plans to visit Colombia in July and meet Colombian President Alvaro Uribe. Colombia was the only member that opposed the plan to build the regional defense council designed to resolve regional conflicts, promote military cooperation and possibly coordinate joint weapons production in the region. 

Uribe has said Colombia is experiencing a difficult time in its fight against the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), the largest rebel group in the country, and such a regional defense body would not offer solutions to Colombia's problem. 

The heads of state of 12 South American countries -- Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela -- signed a treaty last Friday in Brasilia on the creation of Unasur aimed at boosting economic integration and political cohesion in the region.

South American nations to seek common currency [UNASUR/UNASUL]


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 28, 2008)

Right so what we have here folks, is another common currency between many nations that has been created. Or plans for a common currency that is. The South American Union itself has already been created. And it is modeled after the European Union.

So we now have two Control systems in place for the population of the World. Control the World's economies....and you control the people who live under them. 

Whats the quickest way to control the World? I don't know just ask the people who are currently in the process of doing it!

2 Unions folks. Already created. They wanted a European Union. They got it. They wanted a South American Union. They got it. They want a North American Union....they are in the process of creating it. And then they want an Asian/Pacific Union and an African Union. 

And let me tell you something folks.......you should be extremely worried. Because once they have all their Unions put together, they will merge them all together, to create a system of total control. where the World's finances are in the hands of a few, and where one single World currency is controlled by corrupt beings with no more care for the World than what you have for your ShI! after you flush it down the toilet.

You think I am joking. They are doing it as we speak. All I can say, is that I hope Americans are smart enough to figure out what they are doing with our economy at the moment. They are purposely trying to bankrupt our entire country, and our government, and many if not almost all of our corporations, so that we all get on our knees and beg for some kind of a quick solution. And folks, they already have the solution ready, because it is they who created the problem!! 

They are just waiting for the right moment now where they will launch the idea to the American people of a North American One Continent currency and they are betting the farm that we will accept it as a solution. So PLEASE. PLEASE don't let this happen Americans. Our constitution will be under attack, and eventually declared null and void.

Get the word out. DO SOMETHING. Let people know whats going on. Don't let our country fall apart. Don't let these F!ckers take away our freedoms and gain control over our planet. And it is our planet. It doesn't belong to them. We share it! Don't lose it to Evil. We can't ever let them do it guys. EVER!


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 28, 2008)

*Streams rise in Midwest following stormy weather*

*By CARYN ROUSSEAU, Associated Press Writer Caryn Rousseau, Associated Press Writer  1 hr 48 mins ago*

*CHICAGO* ** Midwesterners got ready for the possibility of flooding Sunday as runoff from heavy rain and melting snowbanks bloated streams, and high wind caused new power outages for thousands in Michigan.

Flood warnings were posted Sunday over sections of Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and northwest Ohio, the National Weather Service said.

Following a week of heavy snow, ice and subzero temperatures, meteorologists said temperatures would rise into the 30s Sunday in the Chicago area, following Saturday's high of 61. Farther east, New York City residents relaxed as temperatures headed for the mid 60s Sunday.

In the Chicago suburb of Riverside, authorities encouraged residents along the Des Plaines River to evacuate Saturday night as water rose. The Des Plaines River crested Sunday morning at the city of Des Plaines at nearly 7 feet, the weather service said. Flood stage there is 5 feet.

Des Plaines authorities closed a main road for about 10 hours during the night because of water from an overflowing retention pond, said Don Meseth, director of emergency management for the city of Des Plaines.

"There were a few reports of water in basements," Meseth said.

In Illinois' Kane County, several dozen Boy Scouts filled 2,400 sandbags for residents Saturday.

"They're just concerned with the way we're going to get this quick melt that all the tributaries are going to fill up," said troop leader Jeff Koehl.

Some low-lying roads were flooded early Sunday in southwest and central Missouri, the weather service said.

Wind gusted to more than 60 mph Sunday in Michigan, knocking down tree limbs and power lines and blacking out about 355,000 homes and businesses. Parts of the state also got about 4 inches of snow.

"We've had an intensifying storm system track northeast through the state," said Mark Sekelsky, a weather service meteorologist in Grand Rapids, Mich.

Detroit-based DTE Energy Co. said about 215,000 of its customers had no electricity Sunday afternoon, and CMS Energy Corp. subsidiary Consumers Energy said about 140,000 of its customers were blacked out.

DTE spokesman Len Singer said more outages were possible and it could be days before power is fully restored. "We're still assessing," he said.

On Saturday, a line of powerful thunderstorms swept across a wide swath of the Midwest, packing wind gusts of 60 to 70 mph in Illinois, said weather service meteorologist Patrick Bak. The storms also produced hail and funnel clouds were reported in Missouri.

High wind also blew away a large section of the roof of a school district administrative building in Springfield, Ill.

Streams rise in Midwest following stormy weather - Yahoo! News


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## NuclearWinter (Dec 30, 2008)

The History Channel has announced that Nostradamus 2012 will premiere on January 4, 2009 at 9pm/8c.

*From History Channel:*

In 2012, a rare and possibly Earth-shattering astrological alignment is due to occur that will precipitate a cataclysmic event. Whatever is in store -- a massive cosmic collision, a global environmental disaster, an Armageddon-like religious showdown, or a more subtle transformation -- there have been multiple predictions from different times and cultures that December 21, 2012 will mark a major shift in the history of our planet.

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 takes a detailed investigation of this chilling prophecy. This explosive two-hour sequel picks up where The Lost Book of Nostradamus left off. NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 seeks answers to key critical questions that may loom in just four years: Is there any modern scientific proof that such an alignment will indeed happen? Is any other compelling evidence throughout history that 2012 will be a year of unprecedented, even deadly, upheaval?

There is no disputing that we are a planet in crisis, and that there is a growing public obsession with 2012. But there is no cogent distinction between the sobering facts and hysterical fiction. What, if any, is the scientific ballast that substantiates the fears? NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 will look for the parallels between the nightmarish daily headlines and the 2012 prophecies from Nostradamus and others.

From the mystical realms of the Guatemalan jungles to the high-tech corridors of NASA; from the Hopi elders and Mayan shaman to the most respected thinkers of the modern age; from the symbology of the ancient pyramids in Mexico and Egypt to that of the gothic cathedrals and monuments of Europe -- the 2012 doomsday warning will be cast in a frighteningly modern context. December 21, 2012 is bearing down on us with alarming speed - and whether or not we are able to collectively heed the warnings and affect a course to avert disaster may be the defining moment of the modern age.

The Gamers' Temple News

Nostradamus 2012 premieres Jan 4, 2009. | Facebook

History To Air New Nostradamus Special

Nostradamus 2012, Nostradamus 2012 related news, Nostradamus 2012 related blogs, Nostradamus 2012 related videos and more... today.SmasHits.com


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## RoadVirus (Dec 31, 2008)

NuclearWinter said:


> The History Channel has announced that Nostradamus 2012 will premiere on January 4, 2009 at 9pm/8c.
> 
> *From History Channel:*
> 
> In 2012, a rare and possibly Earth-shattering astrological alignment is due to occur that will precipitate a cataclysmic event. Whatever is in store -- a massive cosmic collision, a global environmental disaster, an Armageddon-like religious showdown, or a more subtle transformation -- there have been multiple predictions from different times and cultures that December 21, 2012 will mark a major shift in the history of our planet.


If that date passes without incident, the History Channel will collapse. They won't be able to fill the time slots after having to throw away all those pathetic shows relating to Dec. 21, 2012. However, they could fill the slots in with nazi war footage like they use to do.


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## Care4all (Dec 31, 2008)

NuclearWinter said:


> The History Channel has announced that Nostradamus 2012 will premiere on January 4, 2009 at 9pm/8c.
> 
> *From History Channel:*
> 
> ...



Well, I am intrigued by all this kind of stuff that the History channel is putting on, and love these kind of programs with popcorn in hand, and i will be sure to watch it, if i remember to.....lol... between now and then...  !

care


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 10, 2009)

*Here is a series of videos describing the coming events in the next 3 and 1/2 years leading up to that famous date of December 21st, 2012:*


Nostradamus 2012 part1 - Truveo Video Search

Nostradamus 2012 part2 - Truveo Video Search

Nostradamus 2012 part3 - Truveo Video Search

Nostradamus 2012 part4 - Truveo Video Search

Nostradamus 2012 part5 - Truveo Video Search

Nostradamus 2012 part6 - Truveo Video Search

Nostradamus 2012 part7 - Truveo Video Search

Nostradamus 2012 part8 - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 9) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 10) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 11) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 12) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 13) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 14) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 15) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 16) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 17) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 18) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 19) - Truveo Video Search

NOSTRADAMUS: 2012 (pt. 20 of 20) - Truveo Video Search


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## FistyTheBadger (Jan 10, 2009)

Didn't everybody think that the first two World Wars would be so intense and forceful that they would usher in an eternal peace?


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 10, 2009)

FistyTheBadger said:


> Didn't everybody think that the first two World Wars would be so intense and forceful that they would usher in an eternal peace?



Alot of people may have thought that. Yes.


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## Charles_Main (Jan 10, 2009)

wow what happened to the war?


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 10, 2009)

Charles_Main said:


> wow what happened to the war?



It may be currently unfolding before our eyes. Keep yourself posted on the Israel problems. This could explode into all out World War 3. I marked 2009 to be the year for major battles related to the war. 2010 could be like nothing you've ever seen.


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## Charles_Main (Jan 10, 2009)

LOL, but this thread is 2 years old. How many of these so called predictions should have happened already. Why I thought the Chinese were suppose to be in Russia by now.

You nuts are all the same. You have an amazing ability to block out when things do not confirm your beliefs and only focus on things that do. When this current flare up in Gaza ends you will point to another event and say watch it, Its coming.

Man you are a nut job top rate.

Congrats


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 10, 2009)

Charles_Main said:


> LOL, but this thread is 2 years old. How many of these so called predictions should have happened already. Why I thought the Chinese were suppose to be in Russia by now.
> 
> You nuts are all the same. You have an amazing ability to block out when things do not confirm your beliefs and only focus on things that do. When this current flare up in Gaza ends you will point to another event and say watch it, Its coming.
> 
> ...



The timeframe is not over yet. World War 3 could last all the way until December 21st, 2012. Most likely it won't, but it could. I already marked this current year (2009) to be a year of extreme tension between countries around the World. Possibly erupting into all out war. 

2010 is said to be a year for World Wars/Wars involving countries from all over the World. The year of the Tiger. In fact, the year of the Tiger can be traced to this same phenomenon throughout history.

Look for this year and next year to be extremely violent years. Look for signs of not backing down/extreme stubbornness, look for provocation, offensive attacks, look for all these things between countries around the World.


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## chloe (Jan 10, 2009)

NuclearWinter said:


> It may be currently unfolding before our eyes. Keep yourself posted on the Israel problems. This could explode into all out World War 3. I marked 2009 to be the year for major battles related to the war. 2010 could be like nothing you've ever seen.



I believe you NW, thanks for the tipoff.....I don't know what to do about it.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 10, 2009)

chloe said:


> I believe you NW, thanks for the tipoff.....I don't know what to do about it.



No problem Chloe. There isn't much you can do about it by yourself, at the moment. Other than get the word out.


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## chloe (Jan 10, 2009)

NuclearWinter said:


> No problem Chloe. There isn't much you can do about it by yourself, at the moment. Other than get the word out.



Your doing a good job of that. I will tell Jeffree, he has a big mouth and Im sure everyone we know will know once he's told. ; )


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## Charles_Main (Jan 11, 2009)

Whatever man, 2 years ago you swore China was about to invade. 

Thats what people like you do, you keep revising what you are saying.

No matter though. To each his own.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 11, 2009)

Charles_Main said:


> Whatever man, 2 years ago you swore China was about to invade.
> 
> Thats what people like you do, you keep revising what you are saying.
> 
> No matter though. To each his own.



And I still feel the same way Charles. Nothing has changed. If anything I only feel even more like they are about to invade. At any time.


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## FistyTheBadger (Jan 11, 2009)

NuclearWinter said:


> And I still feel the same way Charles. Nothing has changed. If anything I only feel even more like they are about to invade. At any time.


Of course you feel the same way.  Nobody expects you to back down.


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 12, 2009)

*ND gets blizzard on top of Dec.'s record snow*

*January 12th, 2009*

*BISMARCK, N.D. * A fast-moving blizzard brought snow and high winds to North Dakota Monday, closing schools and causing more headaches for residents still trying to dig out from a record snowfall last month.

And, forecasters said a blast of cold air was on the way that could send the thermometer as low as 30 below zero.

Travel was discouraged in the central and western parts of North Dakota because of drifting snow, whipped up by high winds, made the visibility almost zero. While the travel advisory was lifted by midday, new advisories were posted in the southeastern part of the state.

No injuries were reported.

The Minot area got 6 inches of snow, on top of about a foot late last week, while Bismarck picked up another 4 inches.

Wind gusts of around 60 mph were reported in southwestern North Dakota and 51 mph in Bismarck. Eastern Montana was rattled with gusts of up to 70 mph, meteorologist Bill Abeling said, but that area did not have as much snow.

As the system moved eastward, blizzard or near-blizzard conditions were expected in parts of South Dakota, Iowa and Minnesota. In Iowa, forecasters said 2 to 4 inches of new snow will bring totals since the weekend to nearly a foot in some places, and wind gusts could top 40 mph.

The snow is to be followed by a blast of cold air, dropping temperatures to around 30 below zero in eastern North Dakota, forecasters said.

"We'd like to figure out a way to send the bad weather back up north," Abeling said.

Bismarck, Fargo and Grand Forks all broke snow records for December, each with more than 30 inches.

Meanwhile, residents of the Midwest and Northeast dug out after their own tussles with weekend storms.

Most residents in New England heeded the authorities' warnings to stay off roads after the storm dumped up to 9 inches of snow in some areas in Massachusetts and sleet and freezing rain across Rhode Island. Some communities declared snow emergencies to help cleanup crews plow streets.

The bitter cold that was stalking the upper Plains was expected to bring bone-chilling misery to the East by week's end.

Residents in the Atlanta area could see temperatures in the high teens later in the week, forecasters said. And in Maine, where overnight lows early Monday dipped to as much as 22 below, even colder weather was in the offing by Thursday.

The weekend snowfall caused two large chain-reaction collisions  a 59-vehicle crash in New Hampshire and another in Connecticut that involved 13 vehicles. No life-threatening injuries were reported in either crash.

Elsewhere:

 The Pacific Northwest remained on alert with three flooded rivers in Washington, where state officials were assessing the damage from heavy rain and melting snow on roads and property.

 In Indiana, two men died Sunday after their snowmobiles fell through the ice covering a lake in Noble County. A third man boating on a different lake died. His body was found partially submerged. 

 Saturday's snow was a boon to Ohio ski resorts, which called it a stimulus package for their industry. 

"We've been in business for 47 years and  this is what I can't believe  yesterday was by far the best gross sales day we've ever had," said George Shaffer, area manager of the Alpine Valley ski resort east of Cleveland in Geauga County, where 11 inches fell.

ND gets blizzard on top of Dec.'s record snow - Yahoo! News


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## NuclearWinter (Jan 28, 2009)

*Kansas beats its own record for most tornadoes in 2008

Kansas had most tornadoes in 2008

By Associated Press
Published: 1/18/2009 8:17 PM
Last Modified: 1/18/2009 8:17 PM

WICHITA * Kansas led the nation for tornadoes in 2008 for the second consecutive year.

Officials say 187 twisters touched down in Kansas during the year, far more the 116 reported in runner-up Texas and 50 more than the previous state record, set in 2007.

While the national numbers haven't been completed for November and December, Kansas' numbers have been verified.

"They just kept coming," said Merril Teller, chief meteorologist at Wichita's KWCH-TV. "Sometimes you get into a particular weather pattern where ... although one system will move on, it's set up properly for another system to do virtually the same thing."

That's what happened around Memorial Day, when KSN-TV, which covers the western two-thirds of Kansas with five stations, reported 412 tornado and thunderstorm warnings over a five-day period bracketing the holiday.

Over 24 hours that Friday and Saturday, KSN reported 145 warnings, smashing the record it set the year before on the weekend Greensburg was nearly destroyed.

"Memorial weekend was nothing short of phenomenal," KSN chief meteorologist Dave Freeman said. "I've never seen anything quite like it."

The Memorial Day storms were responsible for two of the four deaths in Kansas tornadoes last year: a twister killed a Colorado couple as they drove to Wichita on U.S. 54 east of Pratt.

A June 11 tornado killed a 21-year-old woman as it struck the east side of Chapman while a 62-year-old Jackson County farmer died that night when a separate tornado tossed him from his mobile home.

Nationwide, 125 people were killed in 36 separate tornadoes in 2008, the most fatalities since 130 were killed in 1998.

"It was obviously a big year in Kansas," said Greg Carbin, warning coordination meteorologist for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Storm Prediction Center.

Weather officials said the back-to-back records don't mean the state is becoming more of a magnet for killer storms. Most of the increase was among tornadoes rated EF0 or EF1, the weakest ratings of storms with maximum winds of 85 mph and 110 mph, respectively.

Also, most of the nationwide deaths came from a single storm system that killed dozens in the southeastern United States during an 18-hour outbreak in early February.

Carbin said that without that storm system, last year's death toll would have been below normal.

As a result, he said, "it's hard to say there's any long-term trend." 

Tulsa World: Kansas had most tornadoes in 2008

*Kansas again is tops in the U.S. for tornadoes

BY STAN FINGER

The Wichita Eagle*

The total of 187 tornadoes was the most for any state in the nation, dwarfing the 116 in second-place Texas.

The national numbers haven't been finalized for the last two months of the year, but the Kansas numbers are confirmed.

"They just kept coming," said Merril Teller, chief meteorologist at KWCH-TV, Channel 12.

"Sometimes you get into a particular weather pattern where... although one system will move on, it's set up properly for another system to do virtually the same thing," he said.

That's what happened around Memorial Day, when KSN-TV, which covers the western two-thirds of Kansas with five stations, reported 412 tornado and thunderstorm warnings over a five-day period bracketing the holiday.

Over 24 hours that Friday and Saturday, KSN reported 145 warnings, smashing the record it set the year before on the weekend Greensburg was nearly destroyed.

"Memorial weekend was nothing short of phenomenal," KSN chief meteorologist Dave Freeman said. "I've never seen anything quite like it."

Kansas again is tops in the U.S. for tornadoes - Kansas City Star


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## seth1492 (Sep 16, 2009)

I think that this is said in error, Jimmy Carter had a plethora of his own "boys" in his cabinet.  I think everyone does. Yes you will not get everyone you want, and sometimes what you want is not even available (i.e. they turn you down), but I do not think it such a conspiracy that Presidents have no ability to choose at all.


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## LA RAM FAN (Sep 17, 2009)

thanks for sharing that with us.Like it was really neccessary to dig up an old dead thread from almost a year ago to tell us that.


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## Christophera (Sep 17, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> thanks for sharing that with us.Like it was really neccessary to dig up an old dead thread from almost a year ago to tell us that.



Good point.

Let me refine it a little.

It was neccessary to have a thread with more views than the FEMA deception thread to try and draw attention away from the exposure of the deception that is used to keep the secret methods of mass murder concealed.


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## LA RAM FAN (Sep 17, 2009)

Christophera said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for sharing that with us.Like it was really neccessary to dig up an old dead thread from almost a year ago to tell us that.
> ...



yeah good point.


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