# Has The Constitution Failed?



## Gdjjr (Feb 18, 2020)

Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
None the less, here's an interesting take.
_
Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._

Actually, though, that isn’t the case.


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## TNHarley (Feb 18, 2020)

The constitution didnt fail.
The people did.


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## Tax Man (Feb 18, 2020)

The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.


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## bluzman61 (Feb 18, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.


I believe you meant to say, "DEMOCRATS have found ways to go around it."  Fixed it for you, ya knucklehead.


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## Hugo Furst (Feb 18, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.





Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.



Only Republicans?


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## Flash (Feb 18, 2020)

TNHarley said:


> The constitution didnt fail.
> The people did.




Just like with the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.  We have that law that it shall not be infringed but Democrats infringe upon that right every day and nobody does jackshit about it.


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## Gdjjr (Feb 18, 2020)

Both subscribe to the interventionist, welfare/warfare state financed by a central bank- they both subscribe to the Public Education system which fails continuously- they both subscribe to the failed policy's that keep failing- they both subscribe to the keep them immune at all costs- tax payer cost of course-


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## Billy_Kinetta (Feb 18, 2020)

It hasn't failed.  The people have failed to enforce it, thinking that was the government's job.


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## TNHarley (Feb 18, 2020)

Flash said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > The constitution didnt fail.
> ...


Both parties do.
Both parties shit on everyday.
I bet 80 percent of our govt is unconstitutional


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## Indeependent (Feb 18, 2020)

TNHarley said:


> Flash said:
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> > TNHarley said:
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There are many ways to make people miserable.
Legal does not equal moral.


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## Flash (Feb 18, 2020)

TNHarley said:


> Flash said:
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> > TNHarley said:
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The filthy Democrats are the big drivers of eliminating our Right to Keep and Bear Arms.  Unfortunately they are aided from time to time by a few weak minded Republicans.


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## Mac1958 (Feb 18, 2020)

Those who have a vested professional interest in dividing us are winning, and they may have already won.


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## RodISHI (Feb 18, 2020)

Mac1958 said:


> Those who have a vested professional interest in dividing us are winning, and they may have already won.


Only if the people allow it.


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## Mac1958 (Feb 18, 2020)

RodISHI said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
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> > Those who have a vested professional interest in dividing us are winning, and they may have already won.
> ...


Well, that's been the problem.  Far too many of us are more concerned with who the Kardashian girls are banging, or how much cheap, fatty food we can pile on to our buffet plate, than about what is dividing us.

This is the result.
.


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## Natural Citizen (Feb 18, 2020)

Some might contend that the problems lie in the Constitution's inherent design. The anti-federalists have been proven correct and justified in their fears over and over and over again throughout history.


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## RodISHI (Feb 18, 2020)

Mac1958 said:


> RodISHI said:
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> > Mac1958 said:
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A lot more to it than that but I get you. Greed and ignorance has played a big part of it all but like a dear friend told me years ago, "Big wheels move slow". The whole takes awhile to move sometimes and everything serves a purpose in one form or another.


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## ReinyDays (Feb 18, 2020)

I won't say the Constitution failed ... but it does have a serious flaw ... Congress alone can initiate changes to our form of government ... matters in which Congress greatly prospers will never change ... absolutely no way will an amendment limiting campaign financing gets to the states, even if all the states want it ... 

There needs to be a way for 3/4's the states to compel Congress to vote ... or have 3/4's the states impose laws upon Congress, forcing them to comply ...

Many states have initiative petition, with enough signatures an issue can be put directly to the voters ... here that includes amending the state constitution ... and we use it regularly ... if the legislature ain't doing their job, we'll do it for them ... this would be a complete mess nationally, Congress doesn't do anything ...


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## Mac-7 (Feb 18, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...




the lib public education system has failed


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## MisterBeale (Feb 18, 2020)

IMO, TPTB would never be able to wrest the brilliance and freedom of the American Constitution away from her people, so they just corrupted it by sneaking in the 16th Amendment, making it a suicide compact.

". . . In the meantime, the Sixteenth Amendment matters most because it has forever changed the character of the United States government, from a modest central government dependent on consumption taxes and tariffs on imports to the much more powerful, modern government that fought two World Wars and the Cold War with the vast revenue that came from the federal income tax."
16th Amendment | The National Constitution Center


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## Gdjjr (Feb 18, 2020)

*CFR Seeks to Sovietize U.S. Education | Behind the Deep State *


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## Oddball (Feb 18, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...


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## Oddball (Feb 18, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Gdjjr said:
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> > Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> ...


No, it hasn't failed....It's working perfectly to get the results that it's getting.


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## Gdjjr (Feb 18, 2020)

Oddball said:


> No, it hasn't failed....It's working perfectly to get the results that it's getting.


That's what the article said-


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## Oddball (Feb 18, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Oddball said:
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> > No, it hasn't failed....It's working perfectly to get the results that it's getting.
> ...


It's my rote observation fro any given gubmint "failure"....If the bureaucracy or program in question  were really failing, it would have been ended long ago.


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## Mac-7 (Feb 19, 2020)

Oddball said:


> Mac-7 said:
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True

the ignorance of our youth benefits the lib agenda


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## sparky (Feb 19, 2020)

> The experience shows that a Constitution is never sufficient to protect liberty because if a critical mass of people in society lose their love for liberty and demand “security” instead, the Constitution will not prevent that from happening.








~S~


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## The Sage of Main Street (Feb 19, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...


*This Elitist Manifesto Is What Put the Crack in the Liberty Bell*

The anti-democratic Constitution first sets up an oligarchy, then pretends to limit it.  It must be replaced with government by national referendums on all important issues.  Only inferior people with a desperate need to feel superior to the majority think that they are empowered by associating themselves with the oligarchy.  Anyone against majority rule is a natural traitor, since he despises most Americans as a mob.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Feb 19, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Gdjjr said:
> 
> 
> > Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> ...


*Raptors Need Two Wings to Fly*


No matter how much is spent on the prep schools, the spoiled lazy brats there come out no smarter than anyone else, so the solution was to dumb-down the public schools.  Once again, Liberals prove that they are agents of the Right Wing they were born in.  They don't have minds of their own, they don't really believe in anything they preach, they are totally driven by the illusion of Birth-Class Supremacy they were brought up in.


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## Deplorable Yankee (Feb 19, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...




Pretty simple kid...they already said it to we failed not the constitution


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## Gdjjr (Feb 19, 2020)

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Pretty simple kid


Kid? LOL alrighty then.


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## Deplorable Yankee (Feb 19, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Deplorable Yankee said:
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> > Pretty simple kid
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I may have you confused with a younger member 
Lol
Sorry


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## Gdjjr (Feb 19, 2020)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Anyone against majority rule is a natural traitor, since he despises most Americans as a mob.


I despise/detest groups that class people. Period. majority rue IS mob rule- 



"Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801.

Jeffersonian Perspective: Majority Rule



There cannot be a democratic society without majority rule, and individual rights cannot be protected but by the majority, for if the majority will not protect individual rights, who or what will? A minority that is in opposition to the majority? A piece of paper? A political theory? This is why democratic societies have governments. The very purpose of government is to protect the natural rights of its people.



"It is to secure our rights that we resort to government at all." --Thomas Jefferson to M. D'Ivernois, 1795.


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## The Sage of Main Street (Feb 20, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
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> > Anyone against majority rule is a natural traitor, since he despises most Americans as a mob.
> ...


*Wags Wearing Wigs*


That rehearsed talking point is recited to please your Constitutionalist gurus, who think you are a useful idiot.  Desperately seeking some higher secular power in order to feel superior makes you inferior and unfit to call yourself an American.  

Unthinking people worship the elitist oligarchy's Constitution the same way Fundamentalists worship their sacred text, which makes such blind faith in what was written by lawyers for the 18th Century 1% either superstition or sacrilege.  The real Founding Fathers were the pioneers, who were treated like lowlife by that 1%.


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## watchingfromafar (Feb 20, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> I despise/detest groups that class people. Period. majority rue IS mob rule-



You either put that pistol in its holster or drop it.,,..,. or use it. I give you eight (8) seconds.
                                                     On nine (9) I shoot you in the head.
the choice is yours to make
one (1),,,.,two (2).,.,the clock is ticking
what say you ? -


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## watchingfromafar (Feb 20, 2020)

~~~~~~~~~~*Bang, Pop, Poop*~~~~~~~~~~~​got you -


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## Billy_Kinetta (Feb 20, 2020)

watchingfromafar said:


> You either put that pistol in its holster or drop it.,,..,. or use it. I give you eight (8) seconds.
> On nine (9) I shoot you in the head.
> the choice is yours to make
> one (1),,,.,two (2).,.,the clock is ticking
> what say you ? -





Typical lefty defense maneuvers.

If you wait till 9, yer dead by 3.


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## watchingfromafar (Feb 20, 2020)




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## foggedinn (Feb 20, 2020)

The same politicians who hold the constitution sacred when it suits their purpose are the first to use it as a piece of TP when it doesn't suit their purpose. Party affiliation is irrelevant. I believe that in their own minds, Law and Order has become Law or Order.


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## Crepitus (Feb 20, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...


The Constitution didn't fail, the republicans did.


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## Dick Foster (Feb 20, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.


It's shitforbrains like you that have failed. Assholes like you are trying with a steady and concerted effort to drag this whole county down with yourselves because you're all failures and you can't stand to see anyone else winning. Well take a look asshole because we're still winning, we will continue to win and you're still losing.


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## watchingfromafar (Feb 20, 2020)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> If you wait till 9, yer dead by 3.



How can I wait tell nine (9) when I'm dead at three (3)-?
In my neighborhood, we call that circle-jerk mentality. If everybody played that game no female would ever get pregnant cause the left hand don't know what the right hand is doing
or so I've read,
being a grandfather several times over   -


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## watchingfromafar (Feb 20, 2020)

Dick Foster said:


> It's shitforbrains like you that have failed



Ya, bla.,.,.,bla.,.,.,bla.,.,.,bla.,.,.,bla.,.,.,bla.,.,.,bla.,.,.,bla.,.,.,bla..,.,.,.,,,
Then I puked .,..,.,,\
-


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## Billy_Kinetta (Feb 21, 2020)

watchingfromafar said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> 
> > If you wait till 9, yer dead by 3.
> ...



The ability to make simple connections is a desirable trait.


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## regent (Feb 21, 2020)

What branch of government enforces the laws of  the United States?


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## LuckyDuck (Feb 22, 2020)

TNHarley said:


> The constitution didnt fail.
> The people did.


The problem we are facing is that while we were slumbering, Marxist-Leninist trash crawled into the educational system, the media and the entertainment industry.  Our founding document, which created the best government in existence, remains very much intact, it is just being betrayed by the Marxist-Leninist puppets.


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## MaryL (Feb 22, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...


It's US  that has failed the constitution .We allow slavery in the form of illegal immigration, we create isolated  communities to exploit them and we do so because we think we are fighting inequity. Instead we are creating inequity , all those homeless people  begging for food, that's on every  mother lovin' one you that   supports open borders.


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## Andylusion (Feb 22, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...



That seems like an odd theory to start off with, given that you are implying that the law has the duty to constrain the public.... isn't it the public's duty to be constrained by the law?

Let me put it another way:

We have laws against murder.   Yet we have people who commit murder routinely.

Did the law fail?  Do we need to toss out the law, and replace it with a new law?  It's not stopping murder by having it illegal, so the law must have failed?

Or maybe we the public have failed to fully enforce the law?

Maybe the public has failed to enforce the constitution on the government?

This is my complaint against all the people who say we need a constitutional convention, and a new guiding document.

The problem with the constitution, is not that it doesn't work.   The problem with the constitution is that we are simply not following it.

And if the problem is that we are refusing to follow the constitution.....  then what difference does it make if we replace it?

If we replace the constitution, how is having a different constitution going to make anything better?  Won't we not follow that either?

This is a bit like the gun control debate.  The last mass shooter we had, the guy shooting had violated over 11 different gun control laws.   When he didn't follow the first law, why did you think having another law was going to make a difference?

We added a dozen laws, and what a shock, he didn't follow any of those laws either.

So let's create a new constitution, and then we won't follow it anymore than we're following the current one.

No, the solution is to get back to following the current constitution.   The basic principals the founding fathers built into the constitution, created a nation that became the economic, and military leader of the entire world, among nations that had existed for thousands of years longer.

It works, we just need to get back to following it.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Feb 22, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.


Constitution was ratified only when states were assured that liberal federal govt would not grow and grow and take their power away. The Constitution was a failure in the sense that it was not clear enough about making Democrats illegal. Democrats were the faction our Founders feared most.


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## there4eyeM (Feb 22, 2020)

We could say it succeeded in getting the Republic started. No one could have foreseen the future that has unrolled for America. Politicians and voters were not up to the task and the Constitution couldn't save them.


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## anynameyouwish (Feb 22, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> _
> Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...




if the constitution provides for the possibility that ANY American citizen can become president then the constitution has done its job.

if by "any" we include left wing commies and right wing fascists.

And we all know that the first thing authoritarians do is change the system in their favor

So the constitution was designed to allow for its own destruction.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 22, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.



The Democrats have NO respect for the Constitution, but I agree with your statement as well.  It's NOT a problem.  You should be happy.  Trump banned bump stocks with an Executive Order.  The next Democrat president will outlaw high capacity magazines with the same trick and the Dems haven't even thanked that traitor for circumventing the Constitution.


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## Gdjjr (Feb 23, 2020)

anynameyouwish said:


> So the constitution was designed to allow for its own destruction.


I'd never thought of it in that light. It is something to ponder- my only 'initial' argument (if there would be one) is human ego would prevent _that_ "design"- I doubt they would intentionally want their new experiment to fail, but, as is said, hind sight is 20-20.

IMS, they did believe that our form of governance would work only if virtuous men were elected- but too, there is evidence that it was being defiled before the ink was barely dry- so much for virtuous- it was a compromise vs the articles of confederation which was prior to the constitution which is why there were federalist and anti federalist- the federalist won out with consenting to The Bill of Rights- we see today that virtuous men aren't in charge and pay no mind to the BoR- but, they will argue all day long they are both virtuous and adhering to- "just a goddamn piece of paper"- inert though paper is is said to be living-


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 29, 2020)

Flash said:


> TNHarley said:
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> > The constitution didnt fail.
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Constitutional did fail because our Founders were not sure about self-government themselves. This is why they were not as clear about their desire for a limited central govt as they were clear about guns, for example. This is why they said next to nothing about abusive state government. In a sense they wanted limited central govt only to leave the states free to impose abusive and unlimited government on the state level.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 29, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.


No idea what you are talking about??? Republicans are for freedom like our Founders were while Dems are now openly libcommie and opposed to the very principle of our Constitution. Do you understand?


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## Marion Morrison (Mar 29, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.





bluzman61 said:


> Tax Man said:
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> > The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.
> ...



POLITICIANS found a way to go around it.

Mostly the ones that make the laws, AKA "Congress".


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 29, 2020)

Marion Morrison said:


> POLITICIANS found a way to go around it.



You mean Democratic politicians since they are opposed to the basic principle of the Constitution.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Mar 29, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> None the less, here's an interesting take.
> 
> _Given the massive welfare-warfare state system under which Americans live, the natural assumption is that the Constitution failed in its mission to constrain the powers of the federal government._
> ...



Many people are not familiar with it.

And all the left cares about is "settled" case law.  Meaning if they can get the SCOTUS (such as FDR's band of turds in black) to rule against it....well then it must be O.K.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Mar 29, 2020)

Passage of the 17th was a big hit when it comes to the federal government.

States interests were no longer represented in congress.


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## Marion Morrison (Mar 29, 2020)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
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> > POLITICIANS found a way to go around it.
> ...


I am also referring to majority Republican Congresses during Carter's and Reagan's Administrations that
voted themselves immune from bribery and insider trading laws, also Citizens' United.

Make no mistake, both parties are to blame. In one bi-partisan instance they even overrode Carter's veto.

The Patriot Act is another example. It stomps all over the 4th amendment.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Mar 29, 2020)

Mac-7 said:


> Gdjjr said:
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> > Based on the lack of participation in this forum I'd say the country has failed the constitution.
> ...



Only in places run by liberals. Everywhere else is fine!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Mar 29, 2020)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Tax Man said:
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> > The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.
> ...



There is no EO banning bump stocks.  You best check your sources!


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## Porter Rockwell (Mar 30, 2020)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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> > Tax Man said:
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Well Kudos to you - Trump ordered the act done.  A small faux pas is supposed to make a difference?  They are illegal by the stroke of a pen... not by legislative action, but by the stroke of a pen.  It will never excuse the fact that Trump is anti-gun no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig.


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## Porter Rockwell (Mar 30, 2020)

Marion Morrison said:


> Tax Man said:
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> > The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.
> ...




I respectfully disagree.  The courts are legislating from the bench.  The Executive department rules by decrees and Executive Orders.  The legislative branch never calls either branch out on usurpation and they don't ever pass any meaningful laws.


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## Sun Devil 92 (Mar 30, 2020)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Marion Morrison said:
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> > Tax Man said:
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What are your thoughts on the ACA ?


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## Porter Rockwell (Mar 30, 2020)

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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> 
> > Marion Morrison said:
> ...



I would repeal it.  Then again, I would not allow the insurance industry and doctors to wield as much power in Washington as they do.  Those two industries are second only to the lawyer lobby in leading congresscritters around like puppies on a string.  They have way too much influence and no accountability.  

Insurance companies get to *dictate* who they will and will not insure; what they will pay; whether or not they will pay in many instances.  Doctors get to charge you outrageous sums of money to "_practice_" and then want immunity for practicing (sic) on you.


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## Tax Man (Mar 30, 2020)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Tax Man said:
> 
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> > The constitution has not failed, republicans have found ways to go around it.
> ...


So sorry you do not understand history or the Constitution. Grow up!


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2020)

Tax Man said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
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> > Tax Man said:
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Can you get with your mom and try to come up with a reason to feel I don’t understand history?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2020)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
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> > Porter Rockwell said:
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Of course if we had Republican  capitalism that would solve all the problems;the insurance companies would have to compete on the basis of price and quality like real businesses and so would doctors.It really is a very simple concept but sadly for our country liberals lack the IQ to understand it


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## Gdjjr (Mar 30, 2020)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> It really is a very simple concept but sadly for our country liberals lack the IQ to understand it


An even easier and more definitive concept is to stop the partisan bickering for the duoply. 
In case you hadn't noticed Republicans are no more fiscally responsible than Democrats.
Both subscribe to Borrow to Spend = trickle down economics as that infamous Republican Nixon said: I guess we're all keynesean now- keynesean economics was figured out for the Monarchy of Great Britain, by a British subject- the Founders fought a war to get away from that type economic chicanery. capitalism doesn't wear a political stripe and isn't biased about what Party association practices it. That neither do and claiming one does is intellectually dishonest.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> In case you hadn't noticed Republicans are no more fiscally responsible than Democrats.



Total liberal insanity. Republicans stand for fiscal responsibility and will implement their policy the second there is enough support to do so. Amazing you didn't know that.


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## Gdjjr (Mar 30, 2020)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Total liberal insanity. Republicans stand for fiscal responsibility and will implement their policy the second there is enough support to do so. Amazing you didn't know that.


LOL- rhetoric is cheap vote buying- amazing you don't know that.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> In case you hadn't noticed Republicans are no more fiscally responsible than Democrats.



1) Subject was capitalism not fiscal responsibility

2) Republicans oppose Democratic Green New Deal Second Great Depression and Communist Revolution.

Making sense now???


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> LOL- rhetoric is cheap vote buying-



??? what does that mean????????????????


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## Gdjjr (Mar 30, 2020)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> ??? what does that mean??????????????


Take your pick

*Definition of rhetoric*


1 *: *the art of speaking or writing effectively: such as
a *: *the study of principles and rules of composition formulated by critics of ancient times
b *: *the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion

2a *: *skill in the effective use of speech
*b : a type or mode of language or speech also : insincere or grandiloquent language*


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Mar 30, 2020)

Gdjjr said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > ??? what does that mean??????????????
> ...


 want to know your point not definition of rhetoric. Afraid to try?????


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