# Chinese naval fleet seen off northern Japan



## Vikrant

TOKYO: A Chinese naval fleet was on Sunday spotted sailing for the first time through an international strait between northern Japan and Russia's far east, the Japanese defence ministry said. 

The two missile destroyers, two frigates and a supply ship passed through the Soya Strait from the Sea of Japan to the Sea of Okhotsk early on Sunday, the ministry said. 

The channel, also known as La Perouse, separates the Russian island of Sakhalin and the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido. 

The five ships took part in joint naval exercises with Russia from July 5-12 off Vladivostok. 

Two other Chinese naval ships which also took part in the drills were seen moving into the East China Sea on Saturday. 

The purpose of the Chinese fleet's passage through the Soya Strait is not known, Kyodo news agency quoted a ministry official as saying. 

On Saturday a fleet of 16 Russian naval ships was seen moving through the Soya Strait into the Sea of Okhotsk, the ministry said. 

China and Russia held the joint naval exercises  their second such drill  amid regional concerns about China's growing maritime power. 

Tensions have been growing over China's island disputes with Japan and other neighbours. 

Chinese government surveillance ships have frequently approached the Tokyo-controlled Senkaku islands in the East China Sea, which are also claimed by China as the Diaoyus, since Japan nationalised some of them last September. 

Chinese naval fleet seen off northern Japan - The Times of India


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## waltky

Ack! - now dem Chinamens got Bat-subs...

*China's clandestine submarine caves extend Xi's naval reach*
_ November 1, 2014 — Beneath the surface of the South China Sea off the tropical Chinese resort island of Hainan, an underwater tunnel guides submarines into a lair reminiscent of a James Bond spy movie._


> From this pen the subs can venture in and out of the contested South China Sea hidden from the prying eyes of reconnaissance planes deployed by the U.S. Navy, which for the past half century has enjoyed almost unfettered access to the waters, say military watchers who cite satellite images of the area.  The fleet of diesel and nuclear-powered submarines reflects President Xi Jinping's efforts to ensure the security of sea lanes vital for feeding the economic growth on which the nation's stability rests. It's also provoked discomfort among neighbors bruised by China's approach to territorial disputes.
> 
> As countries from India to Australia and Vietnam spend tens of billions upgrading their underwater fleets, cluttering the sea as well as the sky with the reconnaissance craft that follow, the risk is that a clash that previously might have been limited to coast guard and fishing boats spills into military conflict.  "Countries are saying: we need to put into place some kind of credible force that puts doubt into the mind of a Chinese admiral," said Bill Hayton, author of "The South China Sea: The Struggle for Power in Asia." "They are clearly thinking about that because otherwise why are they buying submarines and anti-ship missiles?"
> 
> Defense spending in Asia and Oceania rose 3.6 percent to $407 billion in 2013, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, making it the only region where spending increased every year since SIPRI began collecting the data in 1988. That was led by a 7.4 percent rise in China's spending, with a 5 percent increase for Southeast Asia.  The People's Liberation Army Navy has 56 attack submarines, of which 51 are conventional diesel-electric and five are nuclear powered, according to a Defense Department report to Congress published in April.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jonathan Greenert boards a People's Liberation Army Navy Type-39B submarine July 17, 2014, for a tour on Lushun Naval Base in Dalian, China.
> 
> China also has three nuclear-powered submarines that can launch ballistic missiles, and may add five more, according to the Pentagon report. The report said these subs will this year carry the JL-2 ballistic missile, which has an estimated range of 7,400 kilometers (4,600 miles) and will "give the PLA Navy its first credible sea-based nuclear deterrent."  A range of that distance would allow the missiles to reach Hawaii if launched from the Western Pacific, and California if fired from the mid-Pacific, according to Dean Cheng, a research fellow on Chinese political and security affairs at The Heritage Foundation in Washington.
> 
> The subs, armed with anti-ship cruise missiles and torpedoes, will help Xi as he seeks to realize another goal: readying the military to fight and win "local wars" in the information age. Under that scenario China would let loose its submarines, air force and surface and sub-surface missile power, managed by a state-of-art command system that integrates everything from computers to intelligence.
> 
> MORE


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> TOKYO: A Chinese naval fleet was on Sunday spotted sailing for the first time through an international strait between northern Japan and Russia's far east, the Japanese defence ministry said.



Not really news.
Lots of navies sail in international waters, and conduct war games with foreign fleets in their own waters.


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## Indofred

There we go

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=ROrqjurxxveHHxOI9CGm2Q&bvm=bv.78677474,d.c2E


> *USS George Washington, East China Sea (CNN)* -- The deafening roar of state-of-the-art warplanes being catapulted into the air from its huge flight deck signaled that the USS George Washington was back in combat mode after its recent detour to the Philippines to take part in the aid effort in the wake of Super Typhoon Haiyan.
> 
> Barely a week on and the 90,000-ton Nimitz-class aircraft carrier is now patrolling waters off the island of Okinawa as part a huge naval exercise -- AnnualEx 2013 -- involving dozens of warships, submarines and aircraft from the U.S. Navy's 7th fleet and the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF).



About the same thing, except the US navy is half way around the world from its home ports, instead of in its home area.


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## waltky

Not the same thing...

... we's out inna open...

... dey's skulkin' from underwater caves.


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## Delta4Embassy

waltky said:


> Not the same thing...
> 
> ... we's out inna open...
> 
> ... dey's skulkin' from underwater caves.




One word, NORAD. Wanna talk about skulking in caves.


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## Toronado3800

We sneak around also

But therr is still plenty to be worried about.  Buy that next mattress in a box from China so they get $50 more to add to their submarine program....

Or is it a "we better trade with them so they are our allies in the war against the Iran Iraq and Isis next time"?


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## seeJudy

Maybe Chinese govt could fight with IS allying you, but you know no Iran ... And in other words, if Chinese govt really would fight with IS, will the US govt stab in the back? Who knows?


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## Indofred

A question.
Is the OP trying to tell us all about the evil Chinese and Russians, who are operating in their own waters and international waters close to home, because of a build up of power by a foreign navy, half a world away from its home ports?

I wonder who the aggressor is.


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## seeJudy

Indofred said:


> I wonder who the aggressor is.








Not me ...


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## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> A question.
> Is the OP trying to tell us all about the evil Chinese and Russians, who are operating in their own waters and international waters close to home, because of a build up of power by a foreign navy, half a world away from its home ports?
> 
> I wonder who the aggressor is.



This forum is dedicated to discussing politics. The significant portion of this forum also discusses geopolitics. Keeping that in mind, your objection stems from nothing but paranoia.


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## Vikrant

China definitely has sinister plan. 

---


(Reuters) - Sri Lanka has allowed a Chinese submarine and a warship to dock at its port in the capital Colombo, officials said on Sunday, despite concerns raised by India about China's warming relations with the Indian Ocean island nation. 

Submarine Changzheng-2 and warship Chang Xing Dao arrived at the port on Friday, seven weeks after another Chinese submarine, a long-range deployment patrol, had called at the same port ahead of a visit to South Asia by Chinese President Xi Jinping. 

"A submarine and a warship have docked at Colombo harbour. They called on Oct. 31 and will be here for five days for refuelling and crew refreshment," Sri Lankan navy spokesman Kosala Warnakulasuriya said. 

"This is nothing unusual. Since 2010, 230 warships have called at Colombo port from various countries on goodwill visits and for refuelling and crew refreshment."

However, the frequency of Chinese visits has become a concern for New Delhi, Indian officials have told Reuters. 

"India has raised concerns over this but not aggressively," an Indian official familiar with diplomatic discussions between the neighbours told Reuters. 

China has invested heavily in Sri Lanka in recent years, funding airports, roads, railways and ports, a development that has unsettled India, traditionally the closest economic partner of the island nation of 21 million people.

India has already raised concerns over an aircraft maintenance facility following speculation it could be built in the eastern port city of Trincomalee, which India considers a strategic location in national security terms.

R. Hariharan, a retired colonel from the Indian army and an associate at the Chennai Centre for China Studies, said India was concerned about the latest docking of a Chinese submarine at a Sri Lankan port for many reasons. 

"For the first time, Chinese submarines are being made part of the PLA (the People's Liberation Army) in the Indian Ocean Region fleet operation in the Gulf of Aden on anti-piracy, which is not a common practice," he told Reuters. 

A 1987 accord between India and Sri Lanka provides that respective territories - including Trincomalee - will not be used for activities prejudicial to each other's unity, integrity and security.

Chinese submarine docks in Sri Lanka despite Indian concerns Reuters


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> A question.
> Is the OP trying to tell us all about the evil Chinese and Russians, who are operating in their own waters and international waters close to home, because of a build up of power by a foreign navy, half a world away from its home ports?
> 
> I wonder who the aggressor is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This forum is dedicated to discussing politics. The significant portion of this forum also discusses geopolitics. Keeping that in mind, your objection stems from nothing but paranoia.
Click to expand...


Why - America has placed a large fleet in an area no where nears American waters, but moans when the local countries react.

Don't shake your fist, and no one will get angry.


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## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> I wonder who the aggressor is.




Nobody needs to wonder who the dickless little anti-American insect is. That is the sum total of your pathetic 'persona' here.


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## seeJudy

Unkotare said:


> Nobody needs to wonder who the dickless little anti-American insect is. That is the sum total of your pathetic 'persona' here.


You can't be a normal person. You hate China so much that your brain can't focus anymore. He said something wrong? You bastard ...


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## Unkotare

seeJudy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody needs to wonder who the dickless little anti-American insect is. That is the sum total of your pathetic 'persona' here.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't be a normal person. You hate China so much that your brain can't focus anymore. He said something wrong? You bastard ...
Click to expand...



When did I ever say I "hate" China, fool? I've never said anything of the sort.


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## seeJudy

Unkotare said:


> When did I ever say I "hate" China, fool? I've never said anything of the sort.


I have no time to play on words with you, but that doesn't mean you're blameless.


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## Unkotare

seeJudy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did I ever say I "hate" China, fool? I've never said anything of the sort.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no time to play on words with you...
Click to expand...



Do you have time to go fuck yourself? Do NOT accuse me of saying things I have never said.


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## seeJudy

Unkotare said:


> Do you have time to go fuck yourself? Do NOT accuse me of saying things I have never said.


Who I would fuck is not your business; you attention should be confined to your own affairs, which are in your North America. Every place where your boots have stepped is enjoying peace? So quit fretting about everyone else's business and put your eyesights in your homeland. Do NOT incommode the people of the world. Those adjectives you used to describe Chinese I remember, and I don't want to repeat them either. Hatred is hatred which can't be covered or decorate.


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## Vikrant

This thread is about China's aggressive moves against Japan and other Asian countries. Let us stay on topic.


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## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> A question.
> Is the OP trying to tell us all about the evil Chinese and Russians, who are operating in their own waters and international waters close to home, because of a build up of power by a foreign navy, half a world away from its home ports?
> 
> I wonder who the aggressor is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This forum is dedicated to discussing politics. The significant portion of this forum also discusses geopolitics. Keeping that in mind, your objection stems from nothing but paranoia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why - America has placed a large fleet in an area no where nears American waters, but moans when the local countries react.
> 
> Don't shake your fist, and no one will get angry.
Click to expand...


Chinese aggression is mainly directed against fellow Asian countries. China does not have balls to try anything fancy against the U.S. So you bringing the U.S. into this thread is pretty much thread-jack. Stick to the topic. If you feel necessary to discuss American aggression, please start a separate thread, leave this one alone.


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## Unkotare

seeJudy said:


> Those adjectives you used to describe Chinese I remember, and I don't want to repeat them either. Hatred is hatred which can't be covered or decorate.



If I ever "hate" something I'll be sure to let you know. Until then, stick your assumptions and accusations right up your ass. If you remember any adjectives, you have confused who actually used them. Get your shit together and do NOT cast false accusations against me because you're too stupid to remember who said what.


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## Unkotare

Vikrant said:


> So you bringing the U.S. into this thread is pretty much thread-jack. Stick to the topic. If you feel necessary to discuss American aggression, please start a separate thread, leave this one alone.




The only thing the little insect ever has to contribute to any thread on any subject is his irrational hatred for America. It's the beginning and end of his entire 'persona' here.


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## Unkotare

seeJudy said:


> you attention should be confined to your own affairs, which are in your North America. .




The Pacific is very much part of America's "affairs."


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## seeJudy

Vikrant said:


> This thread is about China's aggressive moves against Japan and other Asian countries.


Remember to take your medicine


Vikrant said:


> Chinese aggression is mainly directed against fellow Asian countries. China does not have balls to try anything fancy against the U.S. So you bringing the U.S. into this thread is pretty much thread-jack. Stick to the topic. If you feel necessary to discuss American aggression, please start a separate thread, leave this one alone.


Remember to take your medicine on time.


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## seeJudy

Except you and your Indian friend, I talked about China with someone else?


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## seeJudy

Vikrant said:


> Chinese aggression is mainly directed against fellow Asian countries. China does not have balls to try anything fancy against the U.S. So you bringing the U.S. into this thread is pretty much thread-jack. Stick to the topic. If you feel necessary to discuss American aggression, please start a separate thread, leave this one alone.






Unkotare said:


> The Pacific is very much part of America's "affairs."




As paradoxical as you two.


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## Unkotare

seeJudy said:


> Except you and your Indian friend, I talked about China with someone else?



I don't care who you talked to. Do NOT falsely attribute words to me that I did not post.


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Chinese aggression is mainly directed against fellow Asian countries. China does not have balls to try anything fancy against the U.S. So you bringing the U.S. into this thread is pretty much thread-jack. Stick to the topic. If you feel necessary to discuss American aggression, please start a separate thread, leave this one alone.



Name a country that China has attacked since WWII. Yes, two, but at least one was the result of an Indian attack first.
Now, name 10 that America has attacked, and you'll have trouble staying within the limit.
This thread is about America aggression, because the Russian/Chinese build up is a direct response to American intervention in the region. 
You can't moan at China and Russia when they're just countering a threat from a nation with a long history of aggression.


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## Indofred

Unkotare said:


> seeJudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> you attention should be confined to your own affairs, which are in your North America. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pacific is very much part of America's "affairs."
Click to expand...


The bits around America, yes.
The rest is not.


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## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seeJudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> you attention should be confined to your own affairs, which are in your North America. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pacific is very much part of America's "affairs."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The bits around America, yes.
> The rest is not.
Click to expand...


The Pacific is very much part of America's "affairs," insect.


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## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> This thread is about America aggression..




The little anti-American insect sings his one and only song. There is nothing more to the little fucking cowardly nobody's 'principles' than banging away at his keyboard in utterly impotent and irrelevant rage. 

Somebody roll up a newspaper...


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## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese aggression is mainly directed against fellow Asian countries. China does not have balls to try anything fancy against the U.S. So you bringing the U.S. into this thread is pretty much thread-jack. Stick to the topic. If you feel necessary to discuss American aggression, please start a separate thread, leave this one alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Name a country that China has attacked since WWII. Yes, two, but at least one was the result of an Indian attack first.
> Now, name 10 that America has attacked, and you'll have trouble staying within the limit.
> This thread is about America aggression, because the Russian/Chinese build up is a direct response to American intervention in the region.
> You can't moan at China and Russia when they're just countering a threat from a nation with a long history of aggression.
Click to expand...


It is you who is moaning. Rest of us were simply discussing Chinese aggression. 

Let me catalog Chinese aggression for you:

- China attacked and occupied Tibet, and then attempted one of the worst genocides recorded in the human history. 

- China attacked India unprovoked twice which resulted in full scale border wars. Even today China intrudes into Indian territory on almost a monthly  basis. 

- China attacked Vietnam unprovoked while poor Vietnam was busy fighting another war. 

- China invades Philippines's territorial water almost on a daily basis. Intimidation of Philippines by China has become a matter of serious concern in the region. 

- China invades Japanese territorial water all the time which has resulted in tremendous tension in the reason. 

- Oppression of Uyghurs by China is pretty well known to anyone who cares about Muslims in Xinjiang. 

- Last but not least Taiwan has to be constantly ready for doomsday scenario due to Chinese irresponsible maneuvers in the strait. 

Stop derailing threads after threads due to your hatred of America. Stay on topic or keep out. It speaks a lot about you as human being when you defend a country like China which has killed millions of Tibetans and Chinese.


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> China attacked Vietnam unprovoked while poor Vietnam was busy fighting another war.



China and Vietnam
February 17, 1979 – March 16, 1979
(3 weeks and 6 days)
China attacked because Vietnam attacked a Chinese allied nation.

America and Vietnam
November 1955 – 30 April 1975
(19 years, 5 months, 4 weeks and 1 day)
America attacked, even though they're half way around the world from Vietnam, and had no dog in the race.


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## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> China attacked Vietnam unprovoked while poor Vietnam was busy fighting another war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China and Vietnam
> February 17, 1979 – March 16, 1979
> (3 weeks and 6 days)
> China attacked because Vietnam attacked a Chinese allied nation.
> 
> America and Vietnam
> November 1955 – 30 April 1975
> (19 years, 5 months, 4 weeks and 1 day)
> America attacked, even though they're half way around the world from Vietnam, and had no dog in the race.
Click to expand...


China attacked Vietnam because according to Chinese premier, China wanted to "teach Vietnam a lesson". This was very well publicized therefore it is strange that you ignore facts and latch on to prejudice against U.S. I am personally not a supporter of Vietnam war. But Vietnam did have two factions and one of these factions was opposed to communism and this faction sought America's help and became an ally of America in the war against communism. So using your simple logic, America too was justified in its action in Vietnam. Since you do not agree with American action in Vietnam, it proves that your logic is flawed.


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> China attacked and occupied Tibet, and then attempted one of the worst genocides recorded in the human history.



Yes, China attacked and occupied Tibet.
Worst genocide? Not even close.

Yes, it seems about a million Tibetans were killed there, mostlt in the wars and other uprisings.
America killed about 150,000 people when it illegally carpet bombed Cambodia.
5 years of illegal drone strikes and killed about 2,400 people, many being civilians.
Get the data Drone wars The Bureau of Investigative Journalism

*Pakistan 2004–2014
CIA Drone Strikes*
Total strikes: *401*
Obama strikes: *350*
Total killed: *2,383-3,858*
Civilians killed: *416-957*
Children killed: *168-202Injured: 1,125-1,695

Yemen 2002–2014
US Covert Action
Confirmed drone strikes: 67-79Total killed: 347-503Civilians killed: 64-83Children killed: 7Injured: 78-196

Possible extra drone strikes:102-122Total killed: 355-573
Civilians killed: 26-68
Children killed: 6-11
Injured: 90-123

Other covert operations: 14-79
Total killed: 150-386
Civilians killed: 60-89
Children killed: 25-27
Injured: 22-115*


Add up the rest of America;s illegal attacks and terrorist campaigns, and it's a lot more than a million.

Sorry, what was that about China?
Yes, they were bastards, but America has done far worse, so don't try to say otherwise.
I know you will so I'll ask you to justify one set of CIA murders.
If you can manage that, you're probably worth arguing with.

Ambon Maluku - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The CIA attacked Indonesia, a country America was NOT at war with, and murdered many people, including a lot of civilians.
Please justify these attacks, then we can discuss if America is aggressive or not.


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## Indofred

Unkotare said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seeJudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> you attention should be confined to your own affairs, which are in your North America. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pacific is very much part of America's "affairs."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The bits around America, yes.
> The rest is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pacific is very much part of America's "affairs," insect.
Click to expand...


The US pacific coast is, but why is the rest of it?


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## Indofred

Unkotare said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about America aggression..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The little anti-American insect sings his one and only song. There is nothing more to the little fucking cowardly nobody's 'principles' than banging away at his keyboard in utterly impotent and irrelevant rage.
> 
> Somebody roll up a newspaper...
Click to expand...


You can insult, but you can't answer a question.
America is half a world away from these waters, so what is America doing there?


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## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about America aggression..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The little anti-American insect sings his one and only song. There is nothing more to the little fucking cowardly nobody's 'principles' than banging away at his keyboard in utterly impotent and irrelevant rage.
> 
> Somebody roll up a newspaper...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can insult, but you can't answer a question.
> America is half a world away from these waters, so what is America doing there?
Click to expand...


You are engaging in the worst infraction actually. You are derailing the thread which is about Chinese aggression by injecting so called American aggression. Whatever any other country does, does not justify Chinese aggression. This is common sense.


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## seeJudy

Vikrant said:


> You are engaging in the worst infraction actually. You are derailing the thread which is about Chinese aggression by injecting so called American aggression. Whatever any other country does, does not justify Chinese aggression. This is common sense.


Chinese aggress A. Chinese aggress B. You call Chinese defencing ourselves as Chinese aggression? Your US father has aggressed us almost in our homeland, can we defence ourselves?  What will you call that you Indian still occupy our land? Stop confusing right and wrong and return us our land!


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## Unkotare




----------



## Vikrant

seeJudy said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are engaging in the worst infraction actually. You are derailing the thread which is about Chinese aggression by injecting so called American aggression. Whatever any other country does, does not justify Chinese aggression. This is common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese aggress A. Chinese aggress B. You call Chinese defencing ourselves as Chinese aggression? Your US father has aggressed us almost in our homeland, can we defence ourselves?  What will you call that you Indian still occupy our land? Stop confusing right and wrong and return us our land!
Click to expand...


You sound like someone who escaped from a mental hospital. Get some treatment and stop messing with your Indian fathers and Japanese mothers, etc.


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> You are engaging in the worst infraction actually. You are derailing the thread which is about Chinese aggression by injecting so called American aggression. Whatever any other country does, does not justify Chinese aggression. This is common sense.



Not at all.
I'm saying there is no Chinese military threat - they're building up forces to counter a threat from another power, the USA.


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## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are engaging in the worst infraction actually. You are derailing the thread which is about Chinese aggression by injecting so called American aggression. Whatever any other country does, does not justify Chinese aggression. This is common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all.
> I'm saying there is no Chinese military threat - they're building up forces to counter a threat from another power, the USA.
Click to expand...


You are wrong because there are no American troops in India or Vietnam. Yet China is on a path of confrontation with both of them. There is no significant American military contingent in Philippines either yet China bullies Philippines pretty much on a daily basis. China is the major trouble maker in that reason.


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## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> I'm saying there is no Chinese military threat - they're building up forces to counter a threat from another power, the USA.



Ignorant little insect.


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> You are wrong because there are no American troops in India or Vietnam



Well, there wouldn't be in Vietnam - you got your arses kicked out by a bunch of farmers.
As for India, are you sure?
BBC News - Pentagon commander says US special forces in India

There is zero chance of any Chinese ship in that part of the pacific attacking any American position, much less the US mainland, so why does America need carrier battle groups there?
The Chinese are simply reacting to a threat from a foreign power with a long history of starting wars.


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## seeJudy

Vikrant said:


> You sound like someone who escaped from a mental hospital. Get some treatment and stop messing with your Indian fathers and Japanese mothers, etc.


Your mind being in the eternal darkness made you hallucinate and talk rubbish everyday online. An insane scum just like you should be locked up and starved. You're such a pathetic insect when insulting me by oral sexual aggression has become the only tactics by which you can find a large charge.


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## seeJudy

Unkotare said:


> If I ever "hate" something I'll be sure to let you know.


You've shown me it.


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## seeJudy

Vikrant said:


> Rest of us were simply discussing Chinese aggression.


If you want to discuss China and Chinese people, then give us another word for it. Although not every Chinese person is good, it's sure that every Chinese person would not like this word when we would have to discuss our reactions to the threat from the US with AMERICANS.


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## seeJudy

Vikrant, you really first offend and first complain ...


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## Unkotare

seeJudy said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I ever "hate" something I'll be sure to let you know.
> 
> 
> 
> You've shown me it.
Click to expand...


Prove it, or recant and apologize. That is, if you have any character at all...


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## seeJudy

My apology is the last thing you can get in this online aboard as soon as you consider yourself as the supporter of the insane and empty-headed OP.


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## seeJudy

Vikrant said:


> Oppression of Uyghurs by China is pretty well known to anyone who cares about Muslims in Xinjiang.


Let you have a look what a real Uighur said online:

aisaha  2014-11-06 13:41:34举报  47楼
欢迎全国各地的朋友来新疆看看，感受大美新疆。暴恐和极端宗教势力是我们共同的敌人，他们的目的就是挑拨民族矛盾，造成新疆长期的动荡不安，为反华势力实现削弱祖国的目的。我作为维吾尔族人，和所有我认识的人都是坚决拥护党的领导，深刻认识分裂活动对新疆带来的灾难。维吾尔族和其他少数民族群众也都是暴恐活动的受害者，每年都有不少维吾尔族干部和群众牺牲在反恐的第一线上，我同他们一样，愿意用生命来捍卫祖国统一和民族的团结。

aisaha  2014-11-06 1415  举报
舆论制高点也让敌人占领了，包括龙腾网里也有一些只为诋毁而诋毁的人发表评论，所以国家才试图严厉管制网络舆论。
新疆问题就是民族团结的问题（习大大在第二次新疆工作座谈会时提到的），毕竟维吾尔族和伊斯兰教都在新疆存在了数百年，而暴恐活动是近几年在我们国家逐渐展露锋芒时才抬头的，所以大家应该明白是什么原因，包括暴恐份子目的，他们应该很清楚这种小打小闹怎么可能分裂新疆，只有可能破坏民族团结。
其实我们国家的民族政策目前来讲是全世界最成功的，前苏联就是反面典型，因为其无视民族差别。至于很多人说国家政策惯坏了少数民族的问题，我认为他们是不够了解作为少数民族的难处。小时候老爹就教育我，只有你比汉族同胞多做出50%的努力，你才有可能获得和他们一样的待遇。长大后社会中我也逐渐体会到作为少数民族，就业时如果优势相对一同竞聘的汉族同胞不太明显，很难获得认可。还有其它方方面面的不公平对待也都对我产生过不小的触动。但换位思考后，我觉得我也会对自己不是很了解的人产生戒备心理，宁可选择更加了解的人。
就目前在新疆而言，在任何法律法规面前，少数民族和汉族都是一律平等的，某些如少数民族中高考加分的政策，也在随着汉语的普及在逐渐缩小加分幅度，以后应该就没有了。毕竟目前很多少数民族平时说的最多的可不是汉语，所以他们无法同生来就使用的汉语的同胞们竞争。
说这么多就希望某些人发言前能够多思考，多去了解自己不清楚的事务后再定性发表言论，不要做了暴恐份子的帮凶，进一步增加民族隔阂。


Finally, the Uighur said,"Please think more before make a statement. Please try to learn about what you don't comprehend before speak. Stop being the supporters of the violent terrorists or else you may help to broaden the misunderstanding among different ethnics. " 

Oh, I forget that you can neither understand Uyghur, nor Chinese language. ...


----------



## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong because there are no American troops in India or Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there wouldn't be in Vietnam - you got your arses kicked out by a bunch of farmers.
> As for India, are you sure?
> BBC News - Pentagon commander says US special forces in India
> 
> There is zero chance of any Chinese ship in that part of the pacific attacking any American position, much less the US mainland, so why does America need carrier battle groups there?
> The Chinese are simply reacting to a threat from a foreign power with a long history of starting wars.
Click to expand...


India does not have military alliance with any other country in the world. It engages in bilateral military exercises with a host of nations including China. 

As I have proven, Chinese aggression is driven by its ambition to achieve hegemony in the region. Even if you look at Japan, S Korea and Taiwan which are declared US allies, there are not enough US troops there to pose any significant challenges to China. Yet, China goes around disrupting maritime traffic, invading land borders of neighbors and declaring insane air defense zones.


----------



## Vikrant

Unkotare said:


> seeJudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I ever "hate" something I'll be sure to let you know.
> 
> 
> 
> You've shown me it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it, or recant and apologize. That is, if you have any character at all...
Click to expand...


That person has no character. He/she is threatening to torture me for my political views. That should tell you all you need to know about him/her.


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## Unkotare

seeJudy said:


> My apology is the last thing you can get in this online aboard [sic] ...



Like I said, if you have any character at all...


----------



## Indofred

China, a country that is no military threat to the United states, is being faced by a large American force, there to interfere in the situation around China's waters, about 7,000 miles from America.
Because of this threat, China is forced to upgrade its military.

Let's look at the news.
America moans about a Chinese aircraft carrier - how many does America have?
America moans about Chinese forces attacking other countries - how many countries has America attacked?
In fact, America has a terrible record of invasions, covert mass murder in foreign countries, and interference in the political affairs of many countries, including deposing democratic leaders in favour of US puppet dictators.

When you cut through the bullshit, China's upgrades are there to counter the threat from American forces.
Of course, some people refuse to see history, preferring political bullshit instead.


----------



## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Sri Lanka has allowed a Chinese submarine and a warship to dock at its port in the capital Colombo, officials said on Sunday, despite concerns raised by India about China's warming relations with the Indian Ocean island nation.



America has no bases in other countries - or maybe a few hundred.
You moan about one, but neglect to mention the massive US military bases in foreign lands, many opposed by neighbouring countries.


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## Indofred

Unkotare said:


> Nobody needs to wonder who the dickless little anti-American insect is. That is the sum total of your pathetic 'persona' here.



Nobody needs to wonder who the dickless little anti-Chinese insect is. That is the sum total of your pathetic 'persona' here.


----------



## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sri Lanka has allowed a Chinese submarine and a warship to dock at its port in the capital Colombo, officials said on Sunday, despite concerns raised by India about China's warming relations with the Indian Ocean island nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America has no bases in other countries - or maybe a few hundred.
> You moan about one, but neglect to mention the massive US military bases in foreign lands, many opposed by neighbouring countries.
Click to expand...


You are projecting. So basically, it is you who is moaning. I am simply discussing news. This thread is not about the US. Immoral actions of China cannot be excused by what the US does or does not. 

As I have demonstrated in my previous posts, the US does not have a level of build up in Asia that can threaten 'mighty' China. Yet, you constantly and wrongly invoke US military as excuse for Chinese buildup. I am not saying it was a wise policy but the fact is the US has never paid adequate attention to the military threats emanating from China. It is absolutely absurd to imply that there is some sort of military parity between the US and China. As I have said earlier, China does not have balls to try anything fancy against the US. Even against India, Chinese aggression has stopped after the arrival of new but sane administration in New Delhi. The collective efforts in the region should ensure that China is left in a position where it cannot bully small countries like Philippines. 

China is a totalitarian regime. And, totalitarian regimes seek hegemony. This is the reality. Another reality is that there are always going to be people (like you) who would support totalitarians. The civilized world just has to get together and fight the totalitarian threats like China. This is what is happening in the region. Countries are getting together to discuss potential military alliance against Chinese hegemony. 

As far as the US is concerned, I hope it would stop wasting time in the Middle East and pay more attention to the Chinese threat.


----------



## irosie91

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sri Lanka has allowed a Chinese submarine and a warship to dock at its port in the capital Colombo, officials said on Sunday, despite concerns raised by India about China's warming relations with the Indian Ocean island nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America has no bases in other countries - or maybe a few hundred.
> You moan about one, but neglect to mention the massive US military bases in foreign lands, many opposed by neighbouring countries.
Click to expand...


The US has bases in foreign countries-----I know that----what is your point?----
Sri Lanka is a kinda weird situation-------the Buddhists oppress the Hindus----
(weird but true)----china threatens India------seemingly forever ---some sort of
border disputes and------some religious issues peripherally -----the fact is that  
china   ---  india  ---- sri lanka      is kinda a hot little thing---that's why Rajiv got
his head blown off.


----------



## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> about 7,000 miles from America.
> .



Reflexive, unthinking anti-Americanism has eroded your ability to calculate distance, insect.


----------



## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> Nobody needs to wonder who ... anti-Chinese... is. That is the sum total of your pathetic 'persona' here.




Prove it, nobody. The only thing you EVER do here is vent your impotent little anti-American frustrations. EVERYONE knows it. I have never made any anti-Chinese declarations. Quite the contrary, in fact. I have many times and now do so again declare my deep and abiding fondness for China, her people, and culture. I'm no fan of the CCP - of course - because I've seen what and its underlying ideology is capable of; seen it for myself. Unlike you, I have the ability to think and to control my emotions. I have never denied China's right to security at or within its borders, but unlike you I can see the line between that and other ambitions. China has every right to pursue its interests in Asia and around the world, but an adult will see that this may result in some conflicts of interest that reasonable people need to manage. An emotional little insect like you is neither reasonable nor a person. You may be too ignorant, dimwitted, and short-sighted to see what Chinese unilateral and exclusive control of Asia - including the busiest trade routes in the world - would mean, but her neighbors are not and the US is not. Perhaps most importantly, China's leaders understand the interplay of forces and interests involved here, as you clearly do not. 

So no, insect, I am not anti-China. Not by any means. Just because I'm no fan of the CCP does not mean I am opposed to the entire nation and all the peoples of China, nor does it imply that every action taken by China anywhere is inherently sinister. Reasonable adults are capable of understanding and perspective that an impotent insect like you obviously is not.


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## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Immoral actions of China cannot be excused by what the US does or does not.



This is true, but immoral actions committed by the US does mean you have no right to complain about other countries.


----------



## irosie91

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immoral actions of China cannot be excused by what the US does or does not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, but immoral actions committed by the US does mean you have no right to complain about other countries.
> ישראל היא כמו סקס עם חזיר; אין אנשים הגיוניים רוצים את זה
Click to expand...



Your statement makes no sense,  Freddie----especially since it is so difficult to define
that which is  immoral.      To me the filth committed by Indonesian pigs and Indonesian policy in that led to the terrorist actions in Bali  is CLEARLY IMMORAL----does that
mean that no Indonesian has a right to complain about the actions of any other
country or nation?
          *****MECCA IS LIKE     ~~~ FUCKING A DOG ~~~~  ******


----------



## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immoral actions of China cannot be excused by what the US does or does not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, but immoral actions committed by the US does mean you have no right to complain about other countries.
Click to expand...


You are an illogical person to a point where it impedes any attempt to have any meaningful discourse with you. 

Let me explain you why I made that statement:

I am not complaining but discussing news in this thread. The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression". As I have stated on numerous times previously, you are welcome to start a thread on so called American aggression if you feel like. I am not stopping you from doing that. But instead you choose to derail my thread with your anti-American diatribe.


----------



## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression"



The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.

You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
Shit - which ally will you support?


----------



## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?
Click to expand...


Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.


----------



## irosie91

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?ישראל היא כמו סקס עם חזיר; אין אנשים הגיוניים רוצים את זה
Click to expand...


fredddie----calm down------no one HAS to intervene in a dispute----certainly not
a land dispute.   Land disputes are very common ----even in towns----
between neighbors------they are a mess-----sometimes a matter of inches        
  sig                  *****mecca is like fucking a dog******


----------



## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
Click to expand...


Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.


----------



## Indofred

Unkotare said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder who the aggressor is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody needs to wonder who the dickless little anti-American insect is. That is the sum total of your pathetic 'persona' here.
Click to expand...


One wonders why it's anti American to mention America has attacked and invaded more countries than any other nation since WWII.
Surely history is fact.

It also seems to be anti American to mention America's stated military build up in the far East - even when this is stated US policy.
Chinese build up are just in answer to the threat posed by a nation with a terrible record for starting wars.

If it's anti American to tell the truth, I will wear the title with pride.
However, I'm only anti American foreign policy, not anti American.


----------



## Indofred

China and Japan smooth over East China Sea island row - BBC News

The two countries are sorting out tge dispute didpite American attempts to destabilise and increase arms sales.


----------



## Unkotare

irosie91 said:


> a land dispute.   Land disputes are very common ----even in towns----
> between neighbors------they are a mess-----sometimes a matter of inches



Insect fred is a mess, but he's only a matter of millimeters.


----------



## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> One wonders why it's anti American....




One only needs to read any small sampling of your asinine posts to see that you are nothing more than an anti-American little noise-maker, you fucking insect.


----------



## Indofred

Unkotare said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> a land dispute.   Land disputes are very common ----even in towns----
> between neighbors------they are a mess-----sometimes a matter of inches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insect fred is a mess, but he's only a matter of millimeters.
Click to expand...


Insults aren't debate; just proof you can't answer.


----------



## Unkotare

Indofred said:


> Insults aren't debate....





Neither is mindless, reflexive anti-Americanism. All you EVER do is troll threads with the same, tired, old whiny nonsense.


----------



## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.
Click to expand...


It is a common sense. Submarines, frigates, destroyers, etc. are weapons. When you send them in disputed areas or close to it, you are provoking hostilities.


----------



## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immoral actions of China cannot be excused by what the US does or does not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, but immoral actions committed by the US does mean you have no right to complain about other countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are an illogical person to a point where it impedes any attempt to have any meaningful discourse with you.
> 
> Let me explain you why I made that statement:
> 
> I am not complaining but discussing news in this thread. The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression". As I have stated on numerous times previously, you are welcome to start a thread on so called American aggression if you feel like. I am not stopping you from doing that. But instead you choose to derail my thread with your anti-American diatribe.
Click to expand...


As I have stated - this isn't Chinese aggression, it's joint naval maneuvers with Russia, not aggressive action, in response to a potential threat, including foreign navies from Japan and the US.

Your whole premise is wrong.


----------



## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a common sense. Submarines, frigates, destroyers, etc. are weapons. When you send them in disputed areas or close to it, you are provoking hostilities.
Click to expand...


What, like America does?


----------



## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> The focus of the news is Chinese aggression not "American aggression"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a common sense. Submarines, frigates, destroyers, etc. are weapons. When you send them in disputed areas or close to it, you are provoking hostilities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, like America does?
Click to expand...


Once again you are back to America. Your posts are what we call jerk off in my neighborhood.


----------



## Indofred

Vikrant said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a common sense. Submarines, frigates, destroyers, etc. are weapons. When you send them in disputed areas or close to it, you are provoking hostilities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, like America does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again you are back to America. Your posts are what we call jerk off in my neighborhood.
Click to expand...


You moaned about a country doing given things, but you ignore other countries do the same, just more so.
We call you a wanker where I come from.


----------



## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a common sense. Submarines, frigates, destroyers, etc. are weapons. When you send them in disputed areas or close to it, you are provoking hostilities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, like America does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again you are back to America. Your posts are what we call jerk off in my neighborhood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You moaned about a country doing given things, but you ignore other countries do the same, just more so.
> We call you a wanker where I come from.
Click to expand...


Do you want me to find a dog to take care of your heat?


----------



## Unkotare

Vikrant said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fleet you're moaning about isn't aggressive, they're conducting legal actions in their own and local international waters, in preparation for any potential aggression from foreign forces.
> 
> You're also assuming China is wrong in its claims on disputed islands. Perhaps Japan is wrong. Of course, if Japan is right, you'll have to assist the Japanese against South Korean claims.
> Shit - which ally will you support?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a common sense. Submarines, frigates, destroyers, etc. are weapons. When you send them in disputed areas or close to it, you are provoking hostilities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, like America does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again you are back to America. Your posts are what we call jerk off in my neighborhood.
Click to expand...



He's a little insect troll.


----------



## Vikrant

Unkotare said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once you stop moaning, we can discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain how this fleet is aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a common sense. Submarines, frigates, destroyers, etc. are weapons. When you send them in disputed areas or close to it, you are provoking hostilities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, like America does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Once again you are back to America. Your posts are what we call jerk off in my neighborhood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He's a little insect troll.
Click to expand...


That idiot's logic is so absurd that it is beyond belief. 

Here is what he is essentially saying:

There is a burnt light bulb in China's backyard. Instead of fixing that problem, he is pointing to a burnt light bulb in someone else's backyard and hoping that somehow that will negate the original problem of burnt light bulb in China's backyard.


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## Indofred

The facts are simple.
China conducted joint manoeuvres with Russia.
These took place in Russian and Chinese waters, with travel through international waters to get between the two countries.
There was no aggressive intent.
The reason for being there?
To conduct drills.
Why the drill?
To train for action against hostile foreign forces, intent on taking Chinese islands.
To train to react to foreign military aggression from a known hostile nation, the US of A. 
A large US naval force often conducts manoeuvres and engages in aggressive patrols in the region, so China must react.
Russia, a country that has often been overflown by US military aircraft, and who's waters US spy planes commonly fly very close to, is equally interested in controlling the US threat.
If you want to understand the Chinese actions, you have to know why they're doing them.
To simply dismiss the American threat is a distortion of the truth.


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## Vikrant

Indofred said:


> The facts are simple.
> China conducted joint manoeuvres with Russia.
> These took place in Russian and Chinese waters, with travel through international waters to get between the two countries.
> There was no aggressive intent.
> The reason for being there?
> To conduct drills.
> Why the drill?
> To train for action against hostile foreign forces, intent on taking Chinese islands.
> To train to react to foreign military aggression from a known hostile nation, the US of A.
> A large US naval force often conducts manoeuvres and engages in aggressive patrols in the region, so China must react.
> Russia, a country that has often been overflown by US military aircraft, and who's waters US spy planes commonly fly very close to, is equally interested in controlling the US threat.
> If you want to understand the Chinese actions, you have to know why they're doing them.
> To simply dismiss the American threat is a distortion of the truth.



I am glad you have found a dog to take care of your heat. Or may be you took a cold shower. Either way, now we can talk in a civilized manner until you are in heat again, I suppose. 

Go back and read my posts where I have clearly shown that most major countries in the region do not have any military alliance with the US. Also, US does not have any significant troop deployments in the countries which do have formal military alliance with the US. So you are being dishonest when you invoke US as a reason for China harassing its neighbors. 

China intruding into Bhutan - what does it have to do with the US? 
China destroying Philippines' boat in Philippines' water - what does it have to do with the US? 
China destroying Vietnam's oil rig within Vietnam's UN recognized economic zone - what does it have to do with the US? 
China sending nuclear armed submarines into Senkaku Islands which is part of Japan - what does it have to do with the US? 
China invading and committing genocide against Tibetans - what does it have to do with the US? 

Even a first grader can see that those actions of China are decoupled from the US but you cannot. So I have to ask you this: Are you dishonest or special?


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## waltky

Granny says, "Dat's right - dey gettin' ready to bomb Pearl Harbor again...

*Historians say China twisting its history to justify military buildup, aggression*
_December 14, 2014 - China has increased its defense spending dramatically in the last decade to $131 billion this year, according to its official statements, placing it second only to the United States in military funding._


> With a jump of more than 12 percent from 2013, many of its neighbors are unsettled by the buildup, particularly in light of China’s claims of sovereignty over islands throughout the South China and East China seas that are claimed by a host of other Asian countries.  China is telling critics of the buildup that it is simply reclaiming its history as a powerful yet peaceful and defensive-minded nation. Officials point to the harmonious-minded teachings of Confucius and construction of the defensive Great Wall, among other historical evidence.  But that interpretation of Chinese history, which has become an essential tool for the Communist Party of China to assuage its neighbors’ anxiety and manage domestic opinion, is at odds with the country’s history, Asia scholars say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters and other visitors gather to inspect the bow of the Haikou, a Chinese destroyer that arrived in Honolulu in June 2014 for participation in the annual Pacific Rim exercises. This was the first year China sent ships to the exercise from its navy, which the country has dramatically modernized and expanded during the past decade.
> 
> They point out that at the height of its power, China used military force — or its threat — to garner land and wealth.  “China uses folklore, myths and legends, as well as history, to bolster greater territorial and maritime claims and create new realities on the land and water,” Mohan Malik, a China expert at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu, wrote in an essay published last year. “Chinese textbooks preach the notion of the Middle Kingdom as being the oldest and most advanced civilization that was at the very center of the universe, surrounded by lesser, partially Sinicized states in East and Southeast Asia that must constantly bow and pay their respects.”  China’s reading of history is relevant to the rest of the world for the very fact that it is central to the ideology underpinning the Communist Party of China’s foreign policy. It’s particularly important to Xi Jinping, China’s president and head of both the CPC and the Central Military Commission.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xi has emphasized the philosophy of Confucius, a teacher who lived around 500 BC, whose principles were once vilified by the CPC under the leadership of Mao Zedong from the 1950s until his death in 1976.  During a forum on Confucius in Beijing in September, Xi said China’s historical traditions “can offer beneficial insights for governance and wise rule,” according to the state-owned Xinhua news agency.  “China lives in the past to chart its future,” Malik said during an interview with Stars and Stripes.  “It’s China’s quest to expand its maritime frontiers using the Communist Party’s version of history that poses the biggest challenge to regional order and security. History is in dispute. Whose version of history is accurate?  “With the collapse of the socialist bloc displacing communist Marxism and Leninism ideology, China has come to rely more and more on the Chinese Communist Party’s version of history to both justify and legitimize the party’s rule in China as part of its patriotic education, particularly since the 1989 Tiananmen massacre,” Malik said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construction of portions of China's Great Wall commenced during the Ming Dynasty only after a number of aggressive military campaigns to the north failed.
> 
> An examination of Chinese history reveals that its foreign policy has been strongly correlated to its relative strength as a regional power, said Yuan-kang Wang, an associate professor in the Department of Sociology and School of Public Affairs and Administration at Western Michigan University and author of the book “Harmony and War: Confucian Culture and Chinese Power Politics.”  “When China was powerful, it was more aggressive, and when China was declining, it became more defensive,” Wang said.  In his book, Wang examined China’s military policies during the Song and Ming dynasties, lasting roughly from 960 to 1644 AD — interrupted by the centurylong Mongol occupation from 1279 to 1368.  Wang found that Confucian philosophy about justice, society and leadership had little influence on military decision-making during that era.
> 
> MORE


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## Indofred

waltky said:


> Granny says, "Dat's right - dey gettin' ready to bomb Pearl Harbor again...
> 
> *Historians say China twisting its history to justify military buildup, aggression*
> _December 14, 2014 - China has increased its defense spending dramatically in the last decade to $131 billion this year, according to its official statements, placing it second only to the United States in military funding._
> 
> 
> 
> With a jump of more than 12 percent from 2013, many of its neighbors are unsettled by the buildup, particularly in light of China’s claims of sovereignty over islands throughout the South China and East China seas that are claimed by a host of other Asian countries.  China is telling critics of the buildup that it is simply reclaiming its history as a powerful yet peaceful and defensive-minded nation. Officials point to the harmonious-minded teachings of Confucius and construction of the defensive Great Wall, among other historical evidence.  But that interpretation of Chinese history, which has become an essential tool for the Communist Party of China to assuage its neighbors’ anxiety and manage domestic opinion, is at odds with the country’s history, Asia scholars say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters and other visitors gather to inspect the bow of the Haikou, a Chinese destroyer that arrived in Honolulu in June 2014 for participation in the annual Pacific Rim exercises. This was the first year China sent ships to the exercise from its navy, which the country has dramatically modernized and expanded during the past decade.
> 
> They point out that at the height of its power, China used military force — or its threat — to garner land and wealth.  “China uses folklore, myths and legends, as well as history, to bolster greater territorial and maritime claims and create new realities on the land and water,” Mohan Malik, a China expert at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu, wrote in an essay published last year. “Chinese textbooks preach the notion of the Middle Kingdom as being the oldest and most advanced civilization that was at the very center of the universe, surrounded by lesser, partially Sinicized states in East and Southeast Asia that must constantly bow and pay their respects.”  China’s reading of history is relevant to the rest of the world for the very fact that it is central to the ideology underpinning the Communist Party of China’s foreign policy. It’s particularly important to Xi Jinping, China’s president and head of both the CPC and the Central Military Commission.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xi has emphasized the philosophy of Confucius, a teacher who lived around 500 BC, whose principles were once vilified by the CPC under the leadership of Mao Zedong from the 1950s until his death in 1976.  During a forum on Confucius in Beijing in September, Xi said China’s historical traditions “can offer beneficial insights for governance and wise rule,” according to the state-owned Xinhua news agency.  “China lives in the past to chart its future,” Malik said during an interview with Stars and Stripes.  “It’s China’s quest to expand its maritime frontiers using the Communist Party’s version of history that poses the biggest challenge to regional order and security. History is in dispute. Whose version of history is accurate?  “With the collapse of the socialist bloc displacing communist Marxism and Leninism ideology, China has come to rely more and more on the Chinese Communist Party’s version of history to both justify and legitimize the party’s rule in China as part of its patriotic education, particularly since the 1989 Tiananmen massacre,” Malik said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construction of portions of China's Great Wall commenced during the Ming Dynasty only after a number of aggressive military campaigns to the north failed.
> 
> An examination of Chinese history reveals that its foreign policy has been strongly correlated to its relative strength as a regional power, said Yuan-kang Wang, an associate professor in the Department of Sociology and School of Public Affairs and Administration at Western Michigan University and author of the book “Harmony and War: Confucian Culture and Chinese Power Politics.”  “When China was powerful, it was more aggressive, and when China was declining, it became more defensive,” Wang said.  In his book, Wang examined China’s military policies during the Song and Ming dynasties, lasting roughly from 960 to 1644 AD — interrupted by the centurylong Mongol occupation from 1279 to 1368.  Wang found that Confucian philosophy about justice, society and leadership had little influence on military decision-making during that era.
> 
> MORE
Click to expand...


WWII started for America when the US tried to choke Japan's oil supply, leaving Japan two choices; retreat or attack.
The US is trying to buy influence in Malaysia and Indonesia, the two countries that can choke Chinese oil supplies.
Same stupidity, except China isn't doing as Japan did, just trading.

America is the aggressive nation, unless someone can explain the disparity between the number of countries China has attacked in the last 20 years (None), and the many America has attacked.


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