# Tea Party=The New Nazi Party?



## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary



> April 13, 1926
> 
> "Hitler was there. Tall healthy and vigorous." "I like him. He puts us to shame with his kindness." "We met. We asked questions. He gave brilliant replies." "I love him."
> 
> "The social issue, completely new insights. He has it all thought out." Hitler's ideal: "a mixture of collectivism and individualism. Production must remain a matter for individuals, big corporations, trusts, etc, all to be nationalized. This is what we discuss."



---

I'm watching the documentary: The Goebbels Experiment. I got to thinking about the correlations between the Nazi's in Germany and the Conservatives in America. 

Before using the Tea Party name, as a name for a movement, took hold in the imagination of the popular right wing nutso-sphere---Dale Robertson was using Tea Party dot org, as a name in September of 2004 (as far as I can tell).

Who is Dale and what why do I and others call him a leader and founder of the Tea Party movement?

---

There is no denying Dale was using the name Tea Party, and calling for conservatives to take back the GOP. Dale is a lair, and a propagandist. There is no denying Dale Robertson was involved with starting and helping tom organize Tea Party rallies in Texas, before they got scared with him and his racist ideology. There is no denying the right is distancing themselves from Robertson with deceit and deception as to how he is connected to them. Dale is at Tea Party events in 2009. 


> In a brief bio on his website, he lies about his military career. According to the website,
> 
> Dale served his nation first as a U.S. Marine. After completing his duties with the Corps, he reenlisted into the U.S. Navy and became a U.S. Naval Officer. During his distinguished time of service, Dale&#8217;s Battle Group was first to the scene on 9/11 as well as first to launch an offensive in Afghanistan. He was stationed on the USS Sacramento which was the life blood of the Battle Group. He faithfully served our nation with Honor and Integrity, retiring after 22 years.
> 
> ...



I post a few links from the right wing blowhardo-sphere and others.

&#8216;N-Word&#8217; Sign Dogs Would-Be Tea Party Leader  The Washington Independent

STORY RETRACTED | Fake Tea Partier Also a Phony Soldier | NewsBusters.org

'Warning: Tea Party In Danger': Leader Slams Palin As 'Wolf In Sheep's Clothing' | TPMMuckraker

Tea Partier Tells Mediaite Racist Sign Was Forged; We Have Him On Record Defending Its Use  Alan Colmes' Liberaland

---

back to the Nazi Party/Tea Party correlations. 

Bush was the GOP and conservative pick to lead the nation. What did Bush do in 2008? He all but nationalized the banks as he called for individual responsibilities, etc.  
Sound familiar? What did Hitler call for? (see above quote from the diary of Joseph Goebbels)

We have Tea Party people speaking about how they view the nation. How they view fellow citizens as outsiders. We have Tea Party rallies where people speak openly about challenging the will of the Republic (the vote) with armed insurrection. 

there's lots more...

I'll be back.


dD


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## Fizz (Apr 11, 2010)

wow..... dale must be a really really old guy by now considering people were using the phrase "tea party" all the way back in 1773!! 

The Boston Tea Party, 1773


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Fizz said:


> wow..... dale must be a really really old guy by now considering people were using the phrase "tea party" all the way back in 1773!!
> 
> The Boston Tea Party, 1773



1773?  "_Before using the Tea Party name, as a name for a movement, *took hold in the imagination of the popular right wing nutso-sphere*, _"

We're talking about a guy who started using TeaParty.org in 2004. His platform has been much of what the Tea Party adopted.

stop trying to play silly little girl games about the origin of the phrase Tea Party. Doing so only highlights how bankrupt and pathetic you and the Tea Party defenders are.

Now, I think you're not denying the Tea Party parallels to the Nazi Party, says much.





> Before using the Tea Party name, as a name for a movement, took hold in the imagination of the popular right wing nutso-sphere---Dale Robertson was using Tea Party dot org, as a name in September of 2004 (as far as I can tell).


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## Stephanie (Apr 11, 2010)

Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a large part of the American people.

Independents and Democrat Tea Party members, TAKE NOTE.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Stephanie said:


> Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a large part of the American people.
> 
> Independents and Democrat Tea Party members, TAKE NOTE.



The Tea Party has always been a front for conservatives and now the GOP.


Independents and Democrat Tea Party members, TAKE NOTE.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Stephanie said:


> Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a large part of the American people.
> 
> Independents and Democrat Tea Party members, TAKE NOTE.



smear? what about mock?

note: see Dante's signature/Tina Fey quote.


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## Tom Clancy (Apr 11, 2010)

I think Dante has some *Tea Party Fevah.*


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## Toro (Apr 11, 2010)

As amusing as the turnabout on incendiary language may be, I can't say that it is particularly accurate.


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## Fizz (Apr 11, 2010)

i've had domain names registered since the early 90s. wanna buy one?

how the hell does registering a domain name become part of some nazi conspiracy?


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

Stephanie said:


> Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a large part of the American people.
> 
> Independents and Democrat Tea Party members, TAKE NOTE.



Well that's all they've got.  They can't debate the Tea Partiers on substance without looking like total schmucks.  And the Tea Partiers scare them shitless because if the Tea Party concept catches on bigtime, they lose their place at the teat of big government.  They might (gasp) actually have to take responsibility for themselves and become citizens who become involved to create the society they want instead of being the pawns of those they elect to office.

There is something very comforting about cradle to grave security to some.  The Tea Partiers call that a form of slavery and do not want to give government that kind of authority.

It is a legitimate national debate.

But the Tea Partiers are the only ones with an argument that can be defended.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Toro said:


> As amusing as the turnabout on incendiary language may be, I can't say that it is particularly accurate.





> April 13, 1926
> 
> "Hitler was there. Tall healthy and vigorous." "I like him. He puts us to shame with his kindness." "We met. We asked questions. He gave brilliant replies." "I love him."
> 
> "The social issue, completely new insights. He has it all thought out." Hitler's ideal: "a mixture of collectivism and individualism. Production must remain a matter for individuals, big corporations, trusts, etc, all to be nationalized. This is what we discuss."



more from Dr. Goebbels' Diary (substitute a few terms  1917/2008---Jews/Democrats or socialists, Cologne/Washington)...


"Then 1917 (2008), and a painfully hungry year we get through it somehow." "Banking and the Stock Exchange, Industry and Market Capital...Jews (Democrats, Scialists, Leftists, Progressives), I reflect on my finacial predicament. Spiritual illumination."

"I am overwhelmed. The Revolution is inside me. But I remain pessimistic about everything. I loathe Cologne (Washington); ...a waste of time. My salary next to nothing, and I can't bear it any more. So I decide to..."


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Fizz said:


> i've had domain names registered since the early 90s. wanna buy one?
> 
> how the hell does registering a domain name become part of some nazi conspiracy?



I'll lay it out in simpleton terms for you...

follow the thread.

Tea Party ideals and propaganda/Hitler's ideals and propaganda. 

We have Tea Party people speaking about how they view the nation (substitute Nazi for Tea). How they view fellow citizens as outsiders. We have Tea Party (Nazi/Tea) rallies where people speak openly about challenging the will of the Republic (the vote) with armed insurrection. 

there's lots more...

Nazi Party/Tea Party correlations. 

The Tea Party is a front for a takeover of the government by conservative radicals who are stoking public discontent. Like the Nazis, the GOP conservative radical movement today has been shown to be bankrupt---all about power over nation---and even over ideology, when it comes to keeping power. 

Bush was the GOP and conservative pick to lead the nation. What did Bush do in 2008? He all but nationalized the banks as he called for individual responsibilities, etc.  
Sound familiar? What did Hitler call for? (see above quote(s) from the diary of Joseph Goebbels)


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

some of the 'more' I promised...


these look just like posts straight off the Tea Party blogs and web sites. 


"We need a firm hand in Germany (America). Let's put an end to all the experiments and empty words, and start getting down to serious work. Throw out the Jews (Democrats, Liberals, Leftists, Socialists---other Americans), who refuse to become real Germans (Americans). Give them a good beating too."


"I'm so despondent about everything. Everything I try goes totally wrong. There's no escape from this hole here. I feel drained. So far, I still haven't found a real purpose in life." "Sometimes, I'm afraid to get out of bed in the morning. There's nothing to get up for."

"My life lacks any meaning. I'm meandering aimlessly. Lost in the universe. Lack of money is oppressive, what a terrible fate. Why bother to read these wretched newspapers, it just makes you feel more stupid."

"Politics is killing me."


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

Okay and this right off of Daily Kos today:



> Since neither we nor our legislators plan to do anything about it, and since our adherence to progressive ideology apparently outweighs our willingness to exercise our power, it is time to state with determination where this is all going to hit bottom.  The ecological dilemma of a society dependent upon not-so-cheap and not-so-clean oil provides a starting-point for my argument that the capitalist system has reached a cul-de-sac.  In this respect, predominant policy initiatives anticipate a post-capitalist world in which an elite of special interests uses government as a gatekeeper for public access to limited slots in a relatively tiny consumer society.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

What kind of socialists were the Nazi leaders when they praise the middle class lifestyle as "engagingly bourgeois"


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> What kind of socialists were the Nazi leaders when they praise the middle class lifestyle as "engagingly bourgeois"



Actually I'm not seeing any emphasis on 'class' among any of the Tea Party demonstrations.  I am seeing a lot of emphasis on personal accountability, individual responsibility, and freedom from oppressive government that interferes with both.  I don't think Tea Partiers are concerned with age or race or ethnicity or religion or political affiliation or any kind of social or political class but are rather focused on ideals that transcend all.

It was a Nazi thing to focus on all that other stuff.

So I'm not seeing a correlation there.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

"We can learn a lot from these Bolsheviks, most of all from their use of propaganda." -Goebbels

"We can learn a lot from these leftist followers of Alinsky, most of all from their use of propaganda."-paraphrase of conservative supporters of the Tea Party, here at USMB and elsewhere.


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

For you information sir, the post which you just neg repped me, was to illustrate that anybody can pull something off a blog and say that it relates to a Tea Party movement or whatever.  At least the post I posted had something to do with the Tea Party message.   But you no doubt missed that.  Which doesn't surprise me.

But thanks for the neg rep.  I'm sure it was heartfelt.


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## rdean (Apr 11, 2010)

I don't think it's a stretch at all.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of socialists were the Nazi leaders when they praise the middle class lifestyle as "engagingly bourgeois"
> ...



Substitute "race or ethnicity" with "leftists, liberals, Democrats, progressives, socialists"
the terms themselves are irrelevant when drawing correlations.

Political affiliation? Hello, Tom Delay was a funder (offering support) as were other prominent GOP officials past and present. 

Goebbels spoke of transcendence as did Hitler.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> For you information sir, the post which you just neg repped me, was to illustrate that anybody can pull something off a blog and say that it relates to a Tea Party movement or whatever.  At least the post I posted had something to do with the Tea Party message.   But you no doubt missed that.  Which doesn't surprise me.
> 
> But thanks for the neg rep.  I'm sure it was heartfelt.



I missed nothing. Stop publicizing a whine about a rep. You posted some nonsense from the KOS or Huffington. No deflection meant to sidetrack will go unanswered. KOS is not where I come from, nor do I defend anything KOS has on it's web site. KOS has nothing to do with Tea Party correlations to Nazi Party

You totally skew any correlations with deceit, deception and deflection.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Dante said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > As amusing as the turnabout on incendiary language may be, I can't say that it is particularly accurate.
> ...





Dante said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > i've had domain names registered since the early 90s. wanna buy one?
> ...



back on track...


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



I don't think there is any transcendence.  I do think Obama and his disciples are fixated on race, partisanship, anyone who would presume to criticize them, class envy, and moving more and more power to government.

That sounds a whole lot more Nazi-ish to me than anything I've heard coming from the Tea Partiers.

And the fact that those who speak at Tea Party events are affiliated with a political party is not an issue.  Tea Partiers are made up of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Greens, Libertarians, and various others or people of no affiliation at all.  If you are going to condemn them for not inviting only people with no political affliation to speak, do you hold those on your side to that same standard?


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

rdean said:


> I don't think it's a stretch at all.



It's not. It's not even close to a stretch.

I will post more as I view the documentary of Goebbels.

I have never accused any groups of being Nazi like before. I never called Bush a Nazi. But ut hit me while watching the video: The Goebbels Experiment, that we are _maybe _seeing history repeat itself---yet again.


dD


note: and it's only a conspiracy theory--for now.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> I don't think there is any transcendence.  I do think Obama and his disciples are fixated on race, partisanship, anyone who would presume to criticize them, class envy, and moving more and more power to government.
> 
> That sounds a whole lot more Nazi-ish to me than anything I've heard coming from the Tea Partiers.
> 
> And the fact that those who speak at Tea Party events are affiliated with a political party is not an issue.  Tea Partiers are made up of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Greens, Libertarians, and various others or people of no affiliation at all.  If you are going to condemn them for not inviting only people with no political affliation to speak, do you hold those on your side to that same standard?


Do you ever tire of the 'they did/do it too' arguments/defense of the wingnut set, or tire of the "moral relativism" arguments?


Does your conspiracy argument negate the one I make?


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> And the fact that those who speak at Tea Party events are affiliated with a political party is not an issue.  Tea Partiers are made up of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Greens, Libertarians, and various others or people of no affiliation at all.  If you are going to condemn them for not inviting only people with no political affliation to speak, do you hold those on* your side* to that same standard?



The Nazi's recruited from all sides too. 

I do not have a side. 


Is this about Obama with you? Who is the other side ("your side")
? If the Tea Party has no sides, how is there another side? What side? who or what do you think represents me---my side ("your side")?


you more than deserve a neg rep or two, because you aren't even aware when you are deflecting, deceiving and using deception. You have become so used to it, it makes me weep for you. Impressionable minds like yours should never be treated that way


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think there is any transcendence.  I do think Obama and his disciples are fixated on race, partisanship, anyone who would presume to criticize them, class envy, and moving more and more power to government.
> ...



I don't have a conspiracy argument nor did I make one.  I commented on my observations about what the Nazis were all about and what I know the Tea Partiers are all about.

There is no correlation between the Tea Partiers and Nazi-ism.  The only thing they have in common is that crowds gather to promote the ideals of each.  The ideals themselves are very different.

So what I am negating is that your whole supposition is that the Tea Partiers are like the Nazi movement is flawed from the get go.  And yeah, you'll probably neg rep me for saying that too.


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## Ravi (Apr 11, 2010)

If you really think this...how on earth did you ever bring yourself to vote McCain/Palin?


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

Ravi said:


> If you really think this...how on earth did you ever bring yourself to vote McCain/Palin?



Believe me I had to hold my nose.  But as bad as they were, Obama/Biden was by far the worse option.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Ravi said:


> If you really think this...how on earth did you ever bring yourself to vote McCain/Palin?


I try not to view the opposition as the enemy?

Because I thought McCain would have made a decent President, decent being the operative word. My principles dictate that we keep one party from ruling both branches of government under most circumstances.

I was a _Democrat for Kerry-Healy_ over Deval Patrick. I campaigned for her as well. Look what Patrick has done to the Massachusetts Democratic Party. The Democrats get most of the blame for things passed with Mitt Romney, because there has been no GOP power in MA. I never did mind saying "I told you so"

Now the GOP is making gains. Then there was the corruption of Democrats on the state level whom I once admired---absolute power corrupts...

Since Obama was untried and inexperienced I figured he would not do as well as Clinton would have, she at least would not have made the same rookie mistakes and I think she would have fought harder for Health Care. 


anyway, I left the Democratic party in MA. to the Progressives with their intolerance and small mindedness. 

I didn't so much vote for McCain as I voted to have two parties share the power and blame and credit for what was on the horizon. seems I can say "I told you so" here too.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > If you really think this...how on earth did you ever bring yourself to vote McCain/Palin?
> ...





Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > If you really think this...how on earth did you ever bring yourself to vote McCain/Palin?
> ...


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## Ravi (Apr 11, 2010)

I suppose. But it is surprising that you couldn't see McCain's choice of Palin for what it was. And she is the leader of the tea party, no matter how much the "independents" claim otherwise.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> I don't have a conspiracy argument nor did I make one.  I commented on my observations about what the Nazis were all about and what I know the Tea Partiers are all about.
> 
> There is no correlation between the Tea Partiers and Nazi-ism.  The only thing they have in common is that crowds gather to promote the ideals of each.  The ideals themselves are very different.
> 
> So what I am negating is that your whole supposition is that the Tea Partiers are like the Nazi movement is flawed from the get go.  And yeah, you'll probably neg rep me for saying that too.


I laid out the correlations I see between the Nazi Party and the Tea Party. You say there is no correlation, yet you do not refute ones I drew upon. You make a statement as a refutation with no claims to back it up? There is a name for that. 
---

maybe there is confusion about definitions a and uses of terms. 

correlate:

1 : either of two things so related that one directly implies or is complementary to the other (as husband and wife)

I use the term in the sense that I see both parties taking the same track to power. 

Much about their tactics is transferable/interchangeable.

Correlation may even be a poor choice of term. 



> *Main Entry: correlation*
> 
> *Part of Speech: noun*
> 
> ...


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Ravi said:


> I suppose. But it is surprising that you couldn't see McCain's choice of Palin for what it was. And she is the leader of the tea party, no matter how much the "independents" claim otherwise.



McCain's choice of Palin had no effect on me. She was merely a seat warmer as far as I was concerned. She was and is a media figure--with popular demand---but that can and will turn on her.

The Tea Party had not reached a critical mass by 2008, November. The Tea Party was still represented by people like Dale Robertson at that time. Now they are almost mainstream GOP


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## Ravi (Apr 11, 2010)

One lunatic fringe (the uber-Christians) to another (the uber-Patriots).

The GOP never really changes.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Great movie, btw: Das Goebbels-Experiment

	Kenneth Branagh	... 	Narrator (voice: English version)


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Ravi said:


> One lunatic fringe (the uber-Christians) to another (the uber-Patriots).
> 
> The GOP never really changes.



The GOP cannot change as long as they need the lunatic fringe for their base. The DNC, for all it's criticism, does not pander to the left fringe. The fringe usually sits out the election or they go Green or Socialist Worker's or CPUSA. Sure a few commie and committed leftists vote for a Dem over a GOP, but voting for the lesser of what one considers to be two evils, is hardly qualified support or base material.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

btw, I;m not saying all Greens and others are committed leftists or fringe.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Conservative Christians in the Tea Party? "My Party is my church and I believe I serve the Lord best if I do his will, and liberate my oppressed people from the fetters of slavery." "That is my gospel."

"I've uncovered an extensive plot. The SS (Libearls) is running a spy ring here in Berlin (Tea P
arty Rallies), and keeping me under surveillance. They are spreading the most astonishing rumors. I think they are agent provocateurs."



> *October 26, 1928.* I have no friends and no wife. I seem to be going through a major spiritual crisis. I still have the same old problems with my foot, which gives me incessant pain and discomfort. And then there are the rumors, to the effect that I am homosexual.


 calling the opposition homos and Bolsheviks?  sound familiar?


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## Jaaaman (Apr 11, 2010)

What a fucking ridiculous comparison to make.  Sheesh.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Jaaaman said:


> What a fucking ridiculous comparison to make.  Sheesh.



yet you can refute none of the comparisons?

The attitude that the nation needs saving. The shrill assaults on elected members of a democratically elected government. The populist nonsense that we need a  revolution---starting with a Tea Party like revolt. The insistence that things are as bad in contemporary society as they were during the colonial times. The divisive calls that demonize other citizens as the enemy within. Demanding a party take over of the government...leading to one party Tea Party rule.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

sound familiar?
"I consider this Reichstag (Democratic led Congress---Congress Critters) utterly outdated and I am convinced that it will have to be dissolved, because it no longer reflects the will of the people."


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Jaaaman said:


> What a fucking ridiculous comparison to make.  Sheesh.



"A worldwide economic depression again throws Germany into hyperinflation and massive employment.

And then what we had predicted occurred.

The state went bankrupt in every area of public life.

If it weren't for us, there would be no hope left for Germany.

We were persecuted, humiliated, condemned."


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh this is too rich.  Trying to paint the Tea Party as Nazis when the evidence is plain the opposite is true.

And you neg rep me for stating the truth of it.

The hypocrisy is truly mystifying in it's depth.


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## Jaaaman (Apr 11, 2010)

The liberal mindset defies logic.  Dante and his examples here are right from the textbook.


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## Oddball (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> some of the 'more' I promised...
> 
> 
> these look just like posts straight off the Tea Party blogs and web sites.
> ...


Now I'm certain that there is no Earthly measure to describe the depths of your sheer stupidity.

You, as much as anyone else, should know damned well that any psycho troll can post any meaningless crap they can want on the innertubes.

After all, you do so, all day every day, right here.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Oh this is too rich.  Trying to paint the Tea Party as Nazis when the evidence is plain the opposite is true.
> 
> ...
> 
> The hypocrisy is truly mystifying in it's depth.



"...a good government can no more exist without propaganda than good propaganda without a good government. One needs to augment the other." 

"And even if today's Jewish newspapers (liberal press) still believe they can intimidate the National Socialist (Tea Party) movement with veiled threats, even if they believe they have permission to circumvent our emergency decrees---They should take care, for one day our patience will run dry and then the Jews (liberals, socialists, Democrats, leftists) will have their brazen, lying mouths stuffed once and for all."


sounds eerily like a speech at a Tea Party rally.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Dude said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > some of the 'more' I promised...
> ...



[youtube]XqRLpzFOA4s[/youtube]

these look just like posts straight off the Tea Party blogs and web sites. 


"We need a firm hand in Germany (America). Let's put an end to all the experiments and empty words, and start getting down to serious work. Throw out the Jews (Democrats, Liberals, Leftists, Socialists---other Americans), who refuse to become real Germans (Americans). Give them a good beating too."


"I'm so despondent about everything. Everything I try goes totally wrong. There's no escape from this hole here. I feel drained. So far, I still haven't found a real purpose in life." "Sometimes, I'm afraid to get out of bed in the morning. There's nothing to get up for."

"My life lacks any meaning. I'm meandering aimlessly. Lost in the universe. Lack of money is oppressive, what a terrible fate. Why bother to read these wretched newspapers, it just makes you feel more stupid."

"Politics is killing me."


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## Oddball (Apr 11, 2010)

Right...Because we know that every anonymous schmuck posting crap on the interwebs means each and every word of it.

Please, continue making a bigger fool of yourself than "normal"...As though that's at all possible..


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Oh this is too rich.  Trying to paint the Tea Party as Nazis when the evidence is plain the opposite is true.
> ...


Thankfully sane people recognize such a blatant lie as calling Tea Parties socialist as what it is.  Their goals are utterly opposite.

Nazis got National Health Care.  Obama Administration passed National Health Care.

Nazis used Racial Identity politics.  Obama Administration uses Racial Identity Politics

Nazi supporters bullied and attacked their ideological enemies.  Obama use bully tactics to intimidate their ideological enemies.

Nazi supporters forced corporations under their control.  The Obama Administration has brought a large part of the auto industry under it's direct control with the Medical and insurance industries next.

Nazi's disarmed their populace.  The Obama Administration wants to disarm the populace.

Nazis blamed the attrocities they caused on opposition groups they demagogued (Reichstad fire and Krystallnacht).  The Obama Administration is demogoguing groups they see as opposition and trying to blame them for actions they have not done.

But, like a few others, I suspect you're just doing your master's bidding.  Do you get paid by the post, or word count?


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Pathos. Does it explain the appeal of the Tea Party to angry and frustrated folks who would march to a Nazi drum if given the chance?



> *Pathos: *
> 
> Pathos is related to the words _pathetic, _sympathy and empathy.
> 
> ...


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Dude said:


> Right...Because we know that every anonymous schmuck posting crap on the interwebs means each and every word of it.
> 
> Please, continue making a fool of yourself.



every anonymous schmuck on the internet? where do I use the quotes of schmucks on the internet, except in pointing out that one of the founders of the Tea Party movement is a man who started teaparty.org back in 2004? 

Some schmuck. Unlike you, he persuaded an awful lot of people to buy his angry bullshit. Your angry bullshit? Not selling very well at the moment.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Pathos. Does it explain the appeal of the Tea Party to angry and frustrated folks who would march to a Nazi drum if given the chance?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, conservatives do not march to the state's drums like the lock step leftists currently running the show.  Liberty is incomparable with a totalitarian federal government.


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## Oddball (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > Right...Because we know that every anonymous schmuck posting crap on the interwebs means each and every word of it.
> ...


Angry bullshit sells all day to angry borderline psychos like you.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...


President George W. Bush, the choice of conservatives in 2000 and 2004, just about nationalized the banks in 2008.  The auto industry took a government bailout.

I was not speaking about socialism. You are. Deflection is silly here. I am drawing comparisons between the Nazi Party speech and attitudes to it's fellow citizens and government and those of the Tea Party. 


None has refuted any comparisons yet---or even tried to.

The comparisons stand


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Pathos. Does it explain the appeal of the Tea Party to angry and frustrated folks who would march to a Nazi drum if given the chance?
> ...



Really? 

Seems like yesterday the conservatives were calling the Democrats stupid for not doing what they did when they were in power---follow the leader. As a matter of fact, look at the votes. Lock step and marching to a drum is what the GOP under conservative dominance has done since 1978.

Since 1978? Liberals in the Democratic party have fought amongst themselves in primaries and when in control. Ted Kennedy challenged a sitting President. When was the last time a Republican challenged a sitting President?

Shit, 1968...LBJ had credible primary challengers lined up against him


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Dude said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...



Angry? Hardly. Never did the _I hate Bush_ or other hate things.


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## elvis (Apr 11, 2010)

the Hitler card seems to be the new weapon of the Left.  It sort of goes along with the race card.


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## Oddball (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


You don't have to say it in so many words....Your not-at-all veiled anger comes across every day, in every way.

Steer clear of post offices, OK?


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

elvis said:


> the Hitler card seems to be the new weapon of the Left.  It sort of goes along with the race card.




FOX News?

"Now meetings are becoming a real pleasure. We have a new subject that grips us all, we have enthusiasm, energy and absolute commitment for our cause, we have audiences that respond passionately. We can speak from the heart and we no longer need to spare our enemies' feelings. For the election, we're generating large amounts of money, and this will put an end to all our financial problems. I set the propaganda machinery in motion, and an hour later the printing presses were chattering away.

 Our propaganda is considered to be exemplary, not just by the German press, but by the international press, too. We have acquired so much expertise in this field during previous election campaigns that we can overcome our opponents. We frighten them, and they hardly dare utter a word. Now we will show what the apparatus can achieve, if you know how to use it."


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


One, Republicans are not neccessary conservatives.  The Rockafeller wing currently controlling the GOP proves that.
Two, The conservatives were not in dominance in congress till 1994.  Once again, nice lie.
Three, your last two points are irrelevant.
Four, Bart Stupak just proved that when push comes to shove, even when they have supposed religious ideals against the politics of their party, the vote with the party.

seig heil, sport.


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## elvis (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > the Hitler card seems to be the new weapon of the Left.  It sort of goes along with the race card.
> ...



Hannity does not equal Goebbels, in spite of what that scumfuck Zona puts in his avatar.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Dude said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...



This doesn't ring true when FOX News is considered as an arm of the GOP and conservative movement that is the Tea Party? 



> fox news
> 
> 
> Now meetings are becoming a real pleasure. We have a new subject that grips us all, we have enthusiasm, energy and absolute commitment for our cause, we have audiences that respond passionately. We can speak from the heart and we no longer need to spare our enemies' feelings. For the election, we're generating large amounts of money, and this will put an end to all our financial problems. I set the propaganda machinery in motion, and an hour later the printing presses were chattering away.
> ...


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## Oddball (Apr 11, 2010)

No, seriously....Get help.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

elvis said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > elvis said:
> ...



Of course not. Hannity is but a clog in the machine.



> Rick Perlstein, author of Nixonland, sees a strong resemblance between Mr. Ailess political experience and his approach to television.
> 
> Like Richard Nixon, like Spiro Agnew, Fox News can never see itself as the attacker, he said. They are always playing defense because they believe they are always under attack, which attracts people that have the same personality formation. By bringing that mind-set, plus the high energy seamless stream of the aggression of talk radio, he has found an audience.
> 
> Roger Ailes of Fox News Has an Agenda - Profit - NYTimes.com


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## elvis (Apr 11, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t8MeE8Ik4Y]YouTube - Help - The Beatles[/ame]


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...



Republicans will throw ideology out the window in order to keep power, but there are no Rockerfeller Republicans today. since 1978, the GOP had a series of purges. MAine and one or two other states are safe, but on hot button issues like health care---even their GOP pols fall in line.

100% of The GOP voted against Bill Clinton on a few issues. Same with against Obama. Doesn't get anymore lockstep than that.


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## elvis (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



so they refuse to worship the ossiah and  therefore they're equivalent to Hitler.  got it.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


Spitting out random dates with no meaning and incoherent drivel proves jack shit.

To the crazy, you're making a model of Devil's Tower.  To the rest of reality, you're just playing with your mashed potatoes and scaring your family again.


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2010)

elvis said:


> the Hitler card seems to be the new weapon of the Left.  It sort of goes along with the race card.



Well in fairness to Dante, and I'm not feeling particularly charitable towards Dante at the moment, it isn't just the Left that does it, though they have been excessive in that when it comes to the Tea Partiers or groups like them.

The difference this time is that Dante started out trying to tar the Tea Partiers with the Nazi stain.  Usually it comes later in the discussion before Godwin's Law is evoked:

*Godwin's Law*:  As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches​
Wiki describes the phenomenon thusly:
*Reductio ad Hitlerum,* also *argumentum ad Hitlerum*, (dog Latin for "reduction to Hitler" or "argument to Hitler," respectively) is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument, and is an informal fallacy. It is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. Hence this fallacy fails to examine the claim on its merit.​
In this case where Dude, I, and others have pointed out that it is not the Tea Partiers who have been utilizing tactics employed by the Nazi organizers on their rise to power, but rather it is sometimes the current administration and its loyal devotees.

And since Dante evoked Godwin's Law from the beginning, we aren't even depending on that in order to formulate a credible rebuttal.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Was it Fritz who said the Tea Party/conservatives do not speak to class? 





wait...


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Didn't Sarah Palin mock President Obama to an assembled bunch of lunatics/activists at a Tea Party lrally as "a professor of law standing at the lectern,"? Wasn't this populist anti-intellectualism?

Hitler: *wasn't intellectuals who gave me the courage to undertake this gigantic task, but...I can reveal this...I found the courage because I encountered two classes---country people and German (American) workers. *

doesn't the above sound like a Palin speech?  Think about it.


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## Oddball (Apr 11, 2010)

Really, dude.....Seek help.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Didn't Sarah Palin mock President Obama to an assembled bunch of lunatics/activists at a Tea Party lrally as "a professor of law standing at the lectern,"? Wasn't this populist anti-intellectualism?
> 
> Hitler: *wasn't intellectuals who gave me the courage to undertake this gigantic task, but...I can reveal this...I found the courage because I encountered two classes---country people and German (American) workers. *
> 
> doesn't the above sound like a Palin speech?  Think about it.


I have.  Once again, I may need to stop enabling your mental illness.  Be glad that the mods don't feel a need to stop people who once would have only had a street corner and sandwich boards to alert the public with their ravings.  This is a whole new way of allowing them to harm themselves I guess.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't Sarah Palin mock President Obama to an assembled bunch of lunatics/activists at a Tea Party lrally as "a professor of law standing at the lectern,"? Wasn't this populist anti-intellectualism?
> ...



So you and a few maudes think it's okay to ridicule Obama and others, to push crazy ideas about Obama,. to attack people like Ron Paul and others when they tell the populist nitwits that Obama is not a socialist---but you think it is a good idea to banish me because I posit a comparison that I put in the conspiracy thread?

you reveal way too much about how thin skinned and lock step minded you all are,.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


Wassamatta Dante?  Your people want to do it all the time.  Not so fun when it's you in the Gulag line for your politics now, isn't it?  Oh you who like to neg rep to try to bully people from their opinions.  Sucks when you get popped back in the mouth and shown a purveyor of spin yourself, doesn't it?

Ron Paul is right when you look at it.  Obama is NOT a socialist.  He's a fascist (corporatist).  His actions, desires and policies prove it every day.  If the man would reverse course, demand congress repeal healthcare and slash the budget by 50% I'd start touting his praises.  But he won't, nor his minions or supporters.

But instead, he's trying to destroy the capitalist system and the constitution in what I can only say is a deliberate attempt on his part.  There is no way a man who has any modicum of intelligence is this stupid.  I will give you this.  You were smart enough to put your lunacy about the Tea Parties in the conspiracy forum.  

But go on being P-BO's useful idiot.  I won't be the first one against the wall.  Accomplices usually are once the goal is in hand for the tyrannical.  Don't think for a second this isn't true.  History bears that out too.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...



hey, lunatic?  what people are mine? I have no peeps here. I, unlike you, do truly speak truth to power---and nitwits. 

I didn't vote fro Obama. I never hated Bush. 

idiots like you project too much


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## Big Fitz (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


This post says no... most of your other posts prove otherwise.

but why should I expect anything but a denial and spin even in this?


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...



Spin? My people? My side?  What is it with people like you. I am well known to attack wingnuts and moonbats when they offend sensibility and reason. 

You? You don't even rate being called a hack---for hacks have a place in the great scheme of things.

thanks for trying to sidetrack a thread.


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## Dante (Apr 11, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Dante said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > As amusing as the turnabout on incendiary language may be, I can't say that it is particularly accurate.
> ...





Dante said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > i've had domain names registered since the early 90s. wanna buy one?
> ...





Dante said:


> some of the 'more' I promised...
> 
> 
> these look just like posts straight off the Tea Party blogs and web sites.
> ...


----------



## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

Dante said:


> "We can learn a lot from these Bolsheviks, most of all from their use of propaganda." -Goebbels
> 
> "We can learn a lot from these leftist followers of Alinsky, most of all from their use of propaganda."-paraphrase of conservative supporters of the Tea Party, here at USMB and elsewhere.





Dante said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Dante said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think it's a stretch at all.
> ...





Dante said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And the fact that those who speak at Tea Party events are affiliated with a political party is not an issue.  Tea Partiers are made up of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Greens, Libertarians, and various others or people of no affiliation at all.  If you are going to condemn them for not inviting only people with no political affliation to speak, do you hold those on* your side* to that same standard?
> ...


----------



## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Oh this is too rich.  Trying to paint the Tea Party as Nazis when the evidence is plain the opposite is true.
> ...





Dante said:


> [youtube]XqRLpzFOA4s[/youtube]
> 
> these look just like posts straight off the Tea Party blogs and web sites.
> 
> ...





Dante said:


> Pathos. Does it explain the appeal of the Tea Party to angry and frustrated folks who would march to a Nazi drum if given the chance?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Dante said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > Right...Because we know that every anonymous schmuck posting crap on the interwebs means each and every word of it.
> ...






Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Dante said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > the Hitler card seems to be the new weapon of the Left.  It sort of goes along with the race card.
> ...


----------



## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

Dante said:


> Great movie, btw: Das Goebbels-Experiment
> 
> Kenneth Branagh	... 	Narrator (voice: English version)





Dante said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > One lunatic fringe (the uber-Christians) to another (the uber-Patriots).
> ...





Dante said:


> Conservative Christians in the Tea Party? "My Party is my church and I believe I serve the Lord best if I do his will, and liberate my oppressed people from the fetters of slavery." "That is my gospel."
> 
> "I've uncovered an extensive plot. The SS (Libearls) is running a spy ring here in Berlin (Tea P
> arty Rallies), and keeping me under surveillance. They are spreading the most astonishing rumors. I think they are agent provocateurs."
> ...





Dante said:


> Jaaaman said:
> 
> 
> > What a fucking ridiculous comparison to make.  Sheesh.
> ...





Dante said:


> sound familiar?
> "I consider this Reichstag (Democratic led Congress---Congress Critters) utterly outdated and I am convinced that it will have to be dissolved, because it no longer reflects the will of the people."





Dante said:


> Jaaaman said:
> 
> 
> > What a fucking ridiculous comparison to make.  Sheesh.
> ...


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## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

Dante said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





Dante said:


> Didn't Sarah Palin mock President Obama to an assembled bunch of lunatics/activists at a Tea Party lrally as "a professor of law standing at the lectern,"? Wasn't this populist anti-intellectualism?
> 
> Hitler: *wasn't intellectuals who gave me the courage to undertake this gigantic task, but...I can reveal this...I found the courage because I encountered two classes---country people and German (American) workers. *
> 
> doesn't the above sound like a Palin speech?  Think about it.





Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 12, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is EXACTLY why you RETARDS will lose in November. Remind us all how the Conservatives are fear mongering and name calling you nutjob.


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## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> ...



What are you talking about? Who will lose? I didn't vote for Obama, and I am not a Democrat.

If the Tea Party will win, who will they win against? 

You people try and say the Tea party is made up of a cross section of America and then on the other hand you set up straw men to oppose.

---

Oh, my bad. You admit the Tea Party is a Conservative movement.


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## CrusaderFrank (Apr 12, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> ...


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## Big Fitz (Apr 12, 2010)

Dante said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


Side track, how about explode your budding myth you're trying to create?

Fever dream of the left to try and pawn the sins of their collective past onto others.

Then you try to bully those who catch and expose you doing it.


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## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...



You picture yourself as some kind of American hero, yet you are feeling bullied by a few posts?

gawd, what has become of this once great nation?


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## Big Fitz (Apr 12, 2010)

LOL... 

And what has become of this great nation?  We let you gain power instead of snuffing the root out of this horrific philosophy in the 1940's when we had the chance.


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## Dante (Apr 12, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> LOL...
> 
> And what has become of this great nation?  We let you gain power instead of snuffing the root out of this horrific philosophy in the 1940's when we had the chance.


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## Dante (Apr 13, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So I do have a point here?

Good to know.


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## candycorn (Apr 13, 2010)

I disagree with the Tea Party (who stages a march on Washington during football season) in general...I don't see any of them burning their Medicare cards.  

When they do, I'll get interested.

However, God Bless Them for standing up for what they believe.  Anybody willing to get out from behind the computer and protest gets my blessing.  A few crackpots aside, the movement is largely peaceful.  You'd find the same percentage of crackpots in Gore supporters too.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 15, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if this was a new poster I would take this post seriously but you fooled even the 9/11 official conspiracy theory apologists that you were being serious.Its obvious that you were being sarcastic though since it was coming from YOU.You always ignore facts that 9/11 was an inside job so I know you were being sarcastic in this postsince your one of those 9/11 official conspiracy theory apologists as well.


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## Dante (Apr 20, 2010)

candycorn said:


> I disagree with the Tea Party (who stages a march on Washington during football season) in general...I don't see any of them burning their Medicare cards.
> 
> When they do, I'll get interested.
> 
> However, God Bless Them for *standing up* for what they believe.  Anybody *willing to get out from behind the computer *and protest gets my blessing.  A few crackpots aside, the movement is largely peaceful.  You'd find the same percentage of crackpots in Gore supporters too.



you got me to thinking.

maybe Tea Party Rallies aren't such a bad idea all around. I mean if the social misfits here can stand up and get away from the computer every once in a while, a Tea Party can't be a totally bad thing now, can it?


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## candycorn (Apr 20, 2010)

Dante said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree with the Tea Party (who stages a march on Washington during football season) in general...I don't see any of them burning their Medicare cards.
> ...



It could be time for you to take a trip away from the computer too.


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## Dante (Apr 20, 2010)

candycorn said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Oh, you're still here?

figures


with a creepy name that shouts out -Pedophile On The Loose-- I am not surprised you have no where else to go.


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## edthecynic (Apr 20, 2010)

Stephanie said:


> Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a* large part of the American people.*
> 
> Independents and Democrat Tea Party members, TAKE NOTE.


Wow, the "irate MINORITY" has been exaggerated into something larger. 

April 14, 2010
RUSH:*  Samuel Adams' quote, once again. I mean, this guy knew about the tea parties.* He was the tea parties back then. "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather* an irate, tireless minority,* keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."* *That's exactly what the tea party is.**


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## Oddball (Apr 20, 2010)

The men who threw King George asunder were a minority too, comrade.


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## Dante (Apr 20, 2010)

Dude said:


> The men who threw King George asunder were a minority too, comrade.



They also waited until they were left with no other options and they went kicking and screaming into a revolt. The Declaration of Independence took a long time and bloodshed and debate. It was not a movement of stupid people upset over supposedly high taxes, a supposed foreign born leader, and big government. It was about identity and representation.


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## edthecynic (Apr 20, 2010)

Dante said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And the fact that those who speak at Tea Party events are affiliated with a political party is not an issue.  Tea Partiers are made up of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Greens, Libertarians, and various others or people of no affiliation at all.  If you are going to condemn them for not inviting only people with no political affliation to speak, do you hold those on* your side* to that same standard?
> ...


Excellent point!

In Fascism there are only two sides, their side and the enemy.
In CON$ervoFascism there is no middle, anything that isn't Far Right is Far Left!

May 12, 2008
RUSH:  I maintain that moderates and independents are Democrats.  Because,* by definition, if someone or some organization is not conservative, it's by definition going to be liberal, not moderate, not independent, it's going to be liberal*

February 11, 2008
RUSH: See, I think* liberalism *needs to be beaten back; I think it needs to be defeated; I think politically it* is the enemy;* ... It has to be beaten, not joined, not be reached out to, not be gotten along with, not worked with.  It needs to be beaten


----------



## Oddball (Apr 20, 2010)

Dante said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > The men who threw King George asunder were a minority too, comrade.
> ...


The also dealt with idiotic lemmings, who believed that living in supplication to a detached and indifferent potentate was an acceptable option, as opposed to striking out on their own.

And nobody is "dragged kicking and screaming" into revolt...Being dragged off is for fools who believe that being today's useful idiot can prevent them from being tomorrow's gulag slave....Real men with real backbone revolt.


----------



## Dante (Apr 20, 2010)

Dude said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...



True (about lemmings). Read the diaries of those in the debates in Philadelphia. Many were dragged into revolt. They didn't want to leave England and strike out on their own.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 21, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


You know, it's interesting that Glenn Beck did a monologue in his second hour of the radio show today that answered this in a really bad metaphor, but I can distill it, to this:

One side of the spectrum is the European Socialist model.  This includes all the communism, socialism, fascism philosophies that are based on elitism and big government, privilege and social status.  The citizenry are the servants to the masters.  This is the nation Obama wants us to become.  Power is held in perpetuity by one class, in secret over the rest.  This is the history and power structure our founding fathers through our grandparents rebelled against and rejected for 225 years.  This is the philosophy that has been trying to reconquer this nation ever since.

On the other side of the equation, you have the Free Market Capitalism model.  This is a form Liberalism in the traditional sense, based on liberty.  It's foundations are personal responsibility, application of the law, content of character and limited government power.  There are no classes permanently entrenched, there is both upward and downward opportunity based on one's own effort, work and merit.  Power is not sequestered away, out of sight and reach of the common man, but front and center accountable to every man for have his say.

These are the two sides.  It's not socialism versus fascism.  It's freedom versus feudalism.  Look at the foundations of the philosophies, and you can see how glaringly different they are.  Tea parties are screaming for small government, equal application of the law, responsible and accountable government to the citizenry.  On the other side, Pelosi/Reid/Obama are consolidating everything they can under government "regulation" which is shorthand for control.  They want the citizens to be their subjects and to have this status frozen forever.

That is the clear line in stone.  Misrepresentation of the argument cannot hide it for more than a few seconds, and only to the ones who are blinded by their own dogma.


----------



## Dante (Apr 21, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



The amazing thing about the above post, is the amount of shit one person can believe and still function in society without shooting up a McD's in a  lefty neighborhood.

If I believed like wingnuts do, that my neighbors were that much of a threat, survival would dictate getting rid of them.. 

hmmmm, makes one think...


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## Big Fitz (Apr 21, 2010)

> If I believed like wingnuts do, that my neighbors were that much of a threat, survival would dictate getting rid of them..



Huh... so, believing that my neighbors deserve as much freedom as possible as long as it does not interfere with mine is a threat?

<re-reading>

Nope... sorry, I don't get that from there.  Please, explain how you come to such a conclusion?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 21, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


We didn't have "free market capitalism" long before Obama was elected. We've had MONOPOLISTIC CORPORATE FEUDALISM for over a century. Corporations control the government through lobbyists and election funding. The Extreme Court just upheld the strangle hold the Corporate Feudalists have over the government and the CON$ and Teabaggers applauded it.

CON$ and Teabaggers are the "useful idiots" of the Corporate Feudalists. They shill for the Corporate Feudalists and project their own philosophy on the "enemy." See the first quote in my sig.


----------



## Big Fitz (Apr 21, 2010)

> MONOPOLISTIC CORPORATE FEUDALISM for over a century



We were on our way to that until we did the trust busting and put in anti-monopoly laws in place back in the early 1900's.  That ended that, and the pendulum swung another direction.  Gyrating and trying to build velocity.  Today, it's goal is still the same... moving towards totalitarianism.  the question is, which version of totalitarianism will succeed... unless we stop the pendulum once and for all.

Now we've got to do it again to bust up the monopoly of looters formed by politicians, unions and corporate management trying to create a new feudalism in THAT mould.

What you fail to notice is that the one thing these groups have in power is an unvarnished desire for permanent power over someone.  They all believe them better than the common man.  They're not.  The Tea Parties represent a blow against this elitism and desire for corrupt control.

Power corrupts, and these people are no different.  That is why laws must be crafted to prevent too much power from piling up in any one place and make it easily countered from multiples of sources.  But we don't have this protection now.  And that's what we need to get.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 21, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> > MONOPOLISTIC CORPORATE FEUDALISM for over a century
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again you show your gullibility by falling for the propaganda that anti-trust laws broke up the monopolies. They did not. 

All they did was prevent the monopolists from OWNING their monopolies IN THEIR NAME. They still CONTROL their monopolies through vehicles like their phony charities that they CONTROL. They just "donate" the controlling interest of their monopolies to the "charities" they control and get a tax deduction for donating to themselves.

For example, when Rockefeller was forced to divest his OWNERSHIP of Standard Oil he owned on paper only 25% afterwards. So some stockholders tried to oust him from the board. Rockefeller VOTED 60% of the proxies!!!!! The Rockefeller family still controls the oil monopoly to this day.

This is why the Corporate Feudalists see you and your fellow travelers as "useful idiots." They know you can't understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."


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## Big Fitz (Apr 21, 2010)

Oy.

Well I was willing to give you some credit by making a valid point that both sides, capitalist and feudalists want a permanent class system with the on top.

But, then you go ahead and dive off the Conspirator's  "The Profiteers are hiding the truth!!!" Cliff.  You don't believe in the Trilateral Commission, Gnomes of Zurich and Protocols of Zion do you?


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 21, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Oy.
> 
> Well I was willing to give you some credit by making a valid point that both sides, capitalist and feudalists want a permanent class system with the on top.
> 
> But, then you go ahead and dive off the Conspirator's  "The Profiteers are hiding the truth!!!" Cliff.  You don't believe in the Trilateral Commission, Gnomes of Zurich and Protocols of Zion do you?


IOW, you can't deny that anti-trust laws have not stopped the Corporate Feudalists from CONTROLLING their monopolies, so you divert with typical CON$ervative arrogant condescension.
Again the subtle difference between ownership and control is completely beyond you.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 22, 2010)

So... you're saying you do believe in those conspiracies?  You've ignored the question.  I will be happy to continue the conversation after you address the question in front of you.

no dessert without cleaning off your plate.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> So... you're saying you do believe in those conspiracies?  You've ignored the question.  I will be happy to continue the conversation after you address the question in front of you.
> 
> no dessert without cleaning off your plate.


IOW, you STILL can't deny that anti-trust laws have not stopped the Corporate  Feudalists from CONTROLLING their monopolies, so you continue to try to divert.
Again the subtle difference between ownership and control is completely  beyond your comprehension.


----------



## CMike (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > > MONOPOLISTIC CORPORATE FEUDALISM for over a century
> ...


----------



## CMike (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > So... you're saying you do believe in those conspiracies?  You've ignored the question.  I will be happy to continue the conversation after you address the question in front of you.
> ...



Which corporation in America has no competition whatsoever?


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## GHook93 (Apr 23, 2010)

Hitler was also a staunch environmentalist, his first act was to impose complete gun control, he outlawed tobacco (much like the he huge tax on tabacco nowadays) started the National SOCIALIST Party (meaning he was a socialist), he hated capitalism, he played race politics, he supported forced sterilization and promoted abortion.

Heck if you ask me, Hitler's party looks like the Democratic party.


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## gslack (Apr 23, 2010)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I saw this thread and assumed it would die a natural death soon... Well its just not soon enough for me...

First, its really easy to sit back and pick one guy out of a crowd or one person who coined a phrase or term and say, "thats who the are". But it doesn't make it true or even reasonable... Want me to prove it? Okay...

I can look over at Obama and make some rather judgmental statements and make sweeping claims if I wanted to. They would have as much truth or merit as the OP. I could claim since Obama is mentored by Kissinger, he is a globalist conspirator. Kissinger is the head and CEO of Kissinger Associates, and international consulting firm. Whose purpose is to assist those seeking international trade, partnerships, and business relations. I could also claim Obama is a secret Nazi, since Kissinger was born in Germany. Is any of this actually pertinent or factual in regards to Obama? No not really but it sounds bad just the same doesn't it....

Or how about the fact Kissinger is a proponent of "Realpolitik" , and that means Obama as his pupil is an uncaring and unfeeling automaton seeking governmental power and nothing more. Is it true? In what sense? Kissinger is a proponent of realpolitik and that is one way that discipline is viewed. Also he is mentored by Kissinger....  

kind of like what you just did with the OP... Thats the thing about mass judgments, they are often  inaccurate, and unfair. 

And as far as Nazi-like tendencies... Like the way the liberals and progressives push for absolutism? How they try and push everything through "for us" and "for our own good", but do so in a manner that is exactly like the national socialists did in Germany? They told the people how the "other guys" did it all, and how they have to consider them the enemy. 

Whether you like it or not the name Nazi was actually national socialist. yeah Socialists... Funny how that is... 

But I shouldn't paint all socialists as Nazi's that would be unfair..... Wouldn't it....

The op is just another baiting statement meant to stir the shit. Hmm, maybe someone should make a socialist liberal/national socialists similarities thread....


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## California Girl (Apr 23, 2010)

Dude said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...



Dude, it's Dainty.... you're actually trying to have a reasoned discussion with dainty? Seriously? The majority of this thread is dainty bumping his own posts..... again. You'd get more sense having a discussion with rdean.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> Hitler was also a staunch environmentalist, his first act was to impose complete gun control, he outlawed tobacco (much like the he huge tax on tabacco nowadays)* started the National SOCIALIST Party (meaning he was a socialist),* he hated capitalism, he played race politics, he supported forced sterilization and promoted abortion.
> 
> Heck if you ask me, Hitler's party looks like the Democratic party.


Heck if you ask me, Hitler IS a movement CON$ervative.

The Nazi Party (NSDAP)

[SIZE=+1]*The Party Gets a            New Name*[/SIZE]
         In April, 1920, Hitler             advocated that the party should change its name to the  National Socialist            German Workers Party (NSDAP).* Hitler             had always been hostile to socialist ideas,* especially those  that involved            racial or sexual equality. However, socialism was a popular  political            philosophy in Germany after the First World War. This was  reflected            in the growth in the German Social Democrat Party (SDP), the  largest            political party in Germany.
*Hitler,             therefore redefined socialism by placing the word 'National'  before            it. *He claimed he was only in favour of equality for those who  had "German            blood." Jews and other "aliens" would lose their rights            of citizenship, and immigration of non-Germans should be  brought to            an end.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

CMike said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...


Obviously you do not know what a monopoly is.
One group CONTROLS all the "competition" like the Rockefeller family CONTROLLING the oil monopoly. They CONTROL Exxon, Texaco, Chevron, Mobile, etc.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


Like P-BO and health care, health insurance, the American Auto Industry and all those with the SEIU in their shops?  Right.  A government monopoly.  Controlled directly or remotely by direct ownership, manipulation by proxy and/or outright fear and intimidation.

Good you recognize that.

You are saying that froot loops like Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Boxer, Waxman, Murtha, McKinney, Patty Murray, Specter and dozens of other legislators were picked by capitalists like Rockefeller to try and destroy them and steal their money?

Boy, you ARE blind.  EdtheBlind is more like it.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > CMike said:
> ...


Still desperately trying to change the subject! 
Well, at least you have abandoned the anti-trust law crapola.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


I figured it was pointless to bring it up to someone who can't comprehend reality.  Gotta shut down that program running in the background.  It's wasting RAM and making you look a tad nutty.

But please do ignore the fact you've exposed your deity and his pantheon of fools as they work to follow in Hitler/Stalin/Chavez/Castro's footsteps.  A totalitarian regime.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...


Do you mean like the "reality" that after divestiture in compliance with anti-trust laws, Rockefeller still CONTROLLED 60% of the proxies of Standard Oil? Oh, wait a minute, that's YOUR failure to comprehend reality.


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## GHook93 (Apr 23, 2010)

Did he not nationalize many industries within Germany? Hitler detested capitalism as a Jewish method to control the masses! He was a socialist through and through. 

Many leftist come up with the argument that Hitler persecuted communist as proof of his right-wing stance. Not the case. Rationalizing Hitler is like rationalizing any evil dictator, its flawed with hypocrisy. Hitler saw them as an easy target to gain political and populace footing. He also attacked them, because Karl Marx and many of the Bolesviks were Jewish. Another way to push his antisemitic propaganda. Not to mention, communism was a Russian ideology, meaning a Slavic ideology and the Slavs were a racially inferior people to the Germans!



edthecynic said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was also a staunch environmentalist, his first act was to impose complete gun control, he outlawed tobacco (much like the he huge tax on tabacco nowadays)* started the National SOCIALIST Party (meaning he was a socialist),* he hated capitalism, he played race politics, he supported forced sterilization and promoted abortion.
> ...


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 23, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> Did he not nationalize many industries within Germany? Hitler detested capitalism as a Jewish method to control the masses! He was a socialist through and through.
> 
> Many leftist come up with the argument that Hitler persecuted communist as proof of his right-wing stance. Not the case. Rationalizing Hitler is like rationalizing any evil dictator, its flawed with hypocrisy. Hitler saw them as an easy target to gain political and populace footing. He also attacked them, because Karl Marx and many of the Bolesviks were Jewish. Another way to push his antisemitic propaganda. Not to mention, communism was a Russian ideology, meaning a Slavic ideology and the Slavs were a racially inferior people to the Germans!
> 
> ...



But to become dictator without taking the title by military force, the dictator first tells the people what they want to hear.  He uses his gifts of oratory and a charismatic personality to make them love him, be willing to take any risk with him, put their faith in him.   He creates a kind of religious fanaticism directing his passion at an image he creates.   

He usually starts off making the people believe that he is there by virtue of popular appeal--a democratic process--and that he is the one who will finally restore them to peace and prosperity as well as dispelling all the evils that they perceive to exist.  He does this by telling them what they want to hear.  Being honest is not his intent--being _believable_ to easily persuaded masses is his intent.    And when he reverses himself on his previous rhetoric toward that end, he depends on their blind faith to accept his explanations that he was 'misunderstood' before, or it was somebody else's doing, or it was necessary due to circumstances beyond his control.

Because they so desperately want to believe that their faith was not misplaced, they keep grasping at any reason to keep him on the pedestal and pay homage to him.

But as Hitler or others like him have done, he slowly but surely dismantles the former economy, social structures, demographic balances.  He finds villains to accuse for all the evil and offers soothing words to punch down any doubts and smooth over questions.  He knows he doesn't have to actually own the means of production--he only has have control of what is done and who does it and he can do anything he wants.  That might be the larger corporations, factories, or Wall Street.

The only thing that will thwart his rise to the ultimate goal to shape the nation into his image and achieve total and unquestioned control is that enough of the people refuse to be fooled, to remain gullible, to go along to get along.  They either see the price of losing their liberties as too high, or they see the schtick as the sham that it is.   And they rise up and retake the reins.

That's what the Tea Parties are all about.   And because they and others like them are the only thing standing in the way of total power, they must be demonized and destroyed.

I don't know what Obama's motives are--I am certain he is no Hitler--but the patterns are there for his being able to control more and more for whatever his end purpose is whether his adorers and worshipers want to recognize that or not.


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## Dante (Apr 23, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Total power? Patterns for control of more?

what patterns? do you consider GM situation a pattern? Because if you do, you are living in a fantasy land. As any real understanding of the government's bailout/rescue shows, a temporary say in the restructuring of a company to put said company on a  profitable track, hardly fits a plan for total power and control.


> By NICK BUNKLEY
> Published: April 19, 2010
> 
> DETROIT  General Motors, hoping to build confidence in its turnaround and move toward becoming an independent public company again, plans to repay the balance of its government loans this week, a person with direct knowledge of the plans said Monday.
> ...


http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/GM_Viability_Assessment.pdf

note: How GM Paid Back Its Loan From the Government -- Seeking Alpha


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Foxfyre said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Did he not nationalize many industries within Germany? Hitler detested capitalism as a Jewish method to control the masses! He was a socialist through and through.
> ...


I could do a Stuttering LimpTard on you and say you just called the Teabaggers "Nazis." 
But I won't.


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## Dante (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I will. And I will say they call themselves the wingnut verions of Code Pink and anti-war protsers and Acorn...


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


I see your Global Warming debate tactic of repeating the same irrelevancy over and over is not an isolated behavior.

Do you have a graph or chart to show with this to back up nothing?


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...


If it really was irrelevant you wouldn't be so desperate to change the subject and you would explain how Rockefeller could still CONTROL 60% of the Standard Oil proxies AFTER divestiture if the anti-trust laws were effective at eliminating monopolies, as you stupidly claimed.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


First off, do you understand what a monopoly or trust is or how the Sherman Anti-Trust Act is supposed to work?

Secondly, it is not criminal to be rich, or own a company, or have property.  But if you really feel that way, gimme your bank account numbers.  You have something I think I deserve.

You know, I'd be afraid to give you two braincells to rub together.  You'd burn your head off.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Here ya go EdtheBlind... 

a little posting music to keep you in the mood.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK7Q5rt9_zA]YouTube - Steamer NATCHEZ steam calliope[/ame]

Y'all are nuts.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...


I not only know how it works, I know how it fails also. I gave you an example of how Rockrfeller had complete CONTROL of Standard Oil while owning only 25% after divestiture. I was trying to teach you the difference between ownership and control.

Besides phony charities which I've already explained, banks are also a loophole in the anti-trust laws. If you were observant you would have seen that Rockefeller switched to banking after divestiture. 

Banks have all sorts of pension funds, for example. The various funds OWN the stock but the bank votes the proxies. So between the phony charities and the banks, the CONTROLLING interests in "competing" companies could be spread out in such a way that the individual holding of each "charity" and bank fund can be well below any SEC reporting thresholds.
Get it?????


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> Here ya go EdtheBlind...
> 
> a little posting music to keep you in the mood.
> 
> ...


I love how you know-it-alls, who know nothing, think you are smarter than everyone else as you make complete fools of yourselves with your arrogant condescension.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

But, you fail to notice that Standard Oil after trust busting and being broken up did NOT control a majority of the total market, OR a vertical monopoly of all services attached to it.  It does not matter that Rockefeller owned  60% or not of Standard Oil, as long as those strangleholds in the market place are done away with.

The Sherman Anti Trust had little to do with ownership, as long as it did not control the entire market.

Oops.  How's that foot taste?  Little lemon pepper for the sole you're having?

Regardless, you seem to have a mad-on against the Rich, and deem yourself wiser than anyone else to say who deserves and doesn't deserve the right to do with their money as they see fit.  Keep it up, buttercup.  You're very entertaining right now in your colossal ignorance. 

And for the record, I'm not a know-it-all.  I'm a 'know-more-than-you' ...in most things it seems.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> But, you fail to notice that Standard Oil after trust busting and being broken up* did NOT control a majority of the total market,* OR a vertical monopoly of all services attached to it.  It does not matter that Rockefeller owned  60% or not of Standard Oil, as long as those strangleholds in the market place are done away with.
> 
> The Sherman Anti Trust had little to do with ownership,* as long as it did not control the entire market.*
> 
> ...


Man you are thick!

Rockefeller CONTROLLED the majority of the oil market after divestiture and his family still CONTROLS the majority of the oil market today. As I explained in another post you chose to ignore, that's why he switched to BANKING to CONTROL his empire from. Today the Rockefeller family CONTROLS Exxon, Mobile, Texaco, Chevron, etc., if that's not a monopoly then there is no such thing as a monopoly.

You may THINK you know more than me, but that doesn't make it so.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > But, you fail to notice that Standard Oil after trust busting and being broken up* did NOT control a majority of the total market,* OR a vertical monopoly of all services attached to it.  It does not matter that Rockefeller owned  60% or not of Standard Oil, as long as those strangleholds in the market place are done away with.
> ...


Okay, I call bullshit.  Show your proof.  I'm sure the Getty's and many other captains of industry of that period won't agree either.

Most clever thing here is the animation.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...


I've already explained how banks are a loophole in the anti-trust laws, so I'm not going to waste my time repeating it over and over just so you can keep playing dumb.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 23, 2010)

No, I want proof independent from yourself, if you're going to state these things.  I'm saying you're wrong.  You can't prove a negative, so you must prove your assertion.  I suspect you will find none.


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## edthecynic (Apr 23, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> No, I want proof independent from yourself, if you're going to state these things.  I'm saying you're wrong.  You can't prove a negative, so you must prove your assertion.  I suspect you will find none.


Standard Oil was broken up into 33 separate corporations. Rockefeller maintained control of each of them the same way he maintained control of Standard Oil. He had the same monopoly control after divestiture as before, just in a more roundabout way. Just because you refuse to see it doesn't change the fact that nothing changed as far as his monopoly CONTROL of oil is concerned after divestiture.

I already showed how he maintained CONTROL of Standard Oil. I don't have to prove he did the same thing he did with Standard Oil to the other 32, you have to prove the anti-trust laws somehow prevented him from doing the same thing to the other 32 since they couldn't prevent him from maintaining control of Standard Oil.
The onus is on YOU to show what is different about the other 32.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 24, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > No, I want proof independent from yourself, if you're going to state these things.  I'm saying you're wrong.  You can't prove a negative, so you must prove your assertion.  I suspect you will find none.
> ...


Funny.  I don't SEE any links here to prove your assertion.

BUT, I went out and did a little Wikepedia searching just to humor myself.

I find it interesting that you're only partially correct in Rockefeller's ownership.



			
				from wikipedia said:
			
		

> On May 15, 1911, the US Supreme Court upheld the lower court judgment and declared the Standard Oil group to be an "unreasonable" monopoly  under the Sherman Antitrust Act. It ordered Standard to break up into 34 independent companies with different boards of directors.[17]
> 
> Standard's president, John Rockefeller, had long since retired from any management role. But, as he owned a quarter of the shares of the resultant companies, and those share values mostly doubled, he emerged from the dissolution as the richest man in the world.[18]



Not 60%, 25%.  And since I know you're going to focus on 'the value doubled', that's irrelevant.  Rockefeller's hold on the activity of the oil MARKET had been broken.  What you've ignored is that the Standard Oil Holding Company had had it's back broken from when it used to directly control 91% of the market in 1909.  And that's a quarter of the shares of the resultant companies, plural.  Not 25% of all the companies.  So, it's probably it's even less.

So, you're still spouting bullshit, focusing on a narrow slice of history when the Sherman Anti trust act only started the ball rolling in 1890, and ignore the final result in 1911.

So, you're still wrong.

Also, I want to point something out as a difference between government and corporate monopolies.

A government monopoly is supported by taxes taken from you by force, a private company cannot.
A private monopoly cannot stop you from trying to supply yourself, a government can imprison you.
A government monopoly is beholden to the electorate to do in it's best interest, a private monopoly has to obey the market forces AND government law.
A private monopoly cannot make you a criminal by refusing to buy or use their products and services, the government can.

So, can we now get back to what the subject of this thread is?  Debunking the lies about the Tea Party as given by the left?


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## edthecynic (Apr 24, 2010)

Big Fitz said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Big Fitz said:
> ...


Don't you think you are milking the dumb act just a little too much???

What I actually said was that even though he OWNED on paper only 25% of the stock, he VOTED 60% of the PROXIES after divestiture, when some stockholders tried to oust him from the board. Again, I was trying to show you the subtle difference between OWNERSHIP and CONTROL, which is completely over your head and far beyond your comprehension. You don't have to own stock to vote the proxies using banks and charities as the vehicles of CONTROL.
Get it now???

But keep making a fool of yourself, I enjoy a good laugh. 
Thank you.


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## Big Fitz (Apr 24, 2010)

Okay, since you're desperate for it.  Have the last (wrong) word.  This thread's been dead for 3 pages.


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## edthecynic (Apr 24, 2010)

edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > > MONOPOLISTIC CORPORATE FEUDALISM for over a century
> ...





edthecynic said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...





Big Fitz said:


> Okay, since you're desperate for it.  Have the last *(wrong)* word.  This thread's been dead for 3 pages.


You are a perfect example of why CON$ make perfect contrarian indicators.


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## germanguy (Apr 24, 2010)

Rofl, this is utterly funny, although the background of this debate is obviously dead serious.

What is used here, we call in Germany the "Fascism-Club". 
Just connect any idea of your political opponent with Nazism and, even better, with Auschwitz and there is no further need for any argumentation.

National Healthcare ? Nazis invented it.
Disarmament of the people ? Nazis as well !

But it works both ways. 

Tea Party ? Nazis !

That in Germany the national healthcare was introduced 50 years before the Nazis came to power (which was 1933) is overlooked. Also that it was the declared intention of the then ultra-conservative Chancellor von Bismarck to draw away the workers from the Social Democrats (Left/Liberals). Funny - huh ?

Also, that the people were disarmed is also untrue. They were not heavily armed before 1933, so there was no need to do so in 1933. 

That the Tea Party is (at least seen from the other side of the Pond) a movement for all the homeless conservatives, which are unhappy with the way the country is taking.

To me it is the irritated and frustrated middle-class, in big fear of what they have and what might be. This might be the only parallel to the Nazis and it´s followers before 1933.
Those were not the Left, but the lower middle-class, frustrated by the lost war, the loss of wealth in the inflation and the fear of the Big Red Bear in the East - the Bolshevists.

Seen from here, the Tea Party  Movement seems to have certain parallels to this, but I would never take them too far.

Anyway, what I see and feel here is a bigger political and ideological divide than I would have thought. 
You should start to accept again, that the GOP is "Her Majesties loyal opposition" and that Obama is President and is trying his best to get things done. You do not like what he does, well next election the people can tell. But then the verdict is to be accepted.

Regards
ze germanguy


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## tigerbob (Apr 24, 2010)

Dante said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > i've had domain names registered since the early 90s. wanna buy one?
> ...



Can you clarify your parallel a little more?  When you say "Tea Party people viewing fellow citizens as outsides and wanting to challenge the legally elected government with armed insurrection" are you referring to 

1)  Certain individuals who are principally associated with the tea party movement
2)  Certain individual speakers at certain tea party rallies
3)  All attendees of tea party rallies
4)  All tea party supporters, whether they have attended rallies or not

It sounds like you're equating the ostensible leaders of the tea party movement with the early leaders of the Nazi party, and the rally attendees with the brown shirts / S.A.  Is that a reasonable paraphrase or am I reading you wrongly?


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## Dante (Apr 24, 2010)

tigerbob said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



1 & 2 of course, but 3 & 4 are not really fair or honest choices, for I could believe 99.9% of a group are guilty of something or other, and my agreeing to the choices of 'all' would deceptively make my choices false.


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## tigerbob (Apr 24, 2010)

Dante said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



OK, if not all for 3 or 4, would you care to offer a guess at what you think the figure may be (I'm supposing that 99.9% was just for the purpose if making a distinction).


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## Polk (Apr 24, 2010)

Stephanie said:


> Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a large part of the American people.
> 
> Independents and Democrat Tea Party members, TAKE NOTE.



Large part? More like kook fringe.


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## Dante (Apr 24, 2010)

Polk said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a large part of the American people.
> ...






.

.




.


.


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## Polk (Apr 24, 2010)

Anti-war protests had much higher attendance, and if those weren't mainstream, these people surely aren't.


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## Dante (Apr 24, 2010)

Polk said:


> Anti-war protests had much higher attendance, and if those weren't mainstream, these people surely aren't.



I will be borrowing and modifying the line.  thanx

_Anti-war protests had much higher attendance than the Tea Party rallies, and if those weren't mainstream, the Tea Party Lunatics surely aren't.
_


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## Dante (Jun 8, 2011)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So where are we with this?


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## candycorn (Jun 8, 2011)

no...get bent


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## daveman (Jun 8, 2011)

Dante said:


> Tea Party=The New Nazi Party?


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## lehr (Jun 9, 2011)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



there will always b communist countries - as long as there is a communist demokrat party & useless republicans = republicans r too useless to even be nazis !


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## lehr (Jun 10, 2011)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



bush/mc cain destroyed the republican party


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## lehr (Jun 11, 2011)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



nazis were leftists !   

old man kennedy loved nazism so much that roosevelt had to re-call him back home - kennedy was making a fool of himself !   communist demokrats love control !


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## lehr (Jun 11, 2011)

Dante said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Poor Dante, I think his mission in life right now is to see just how many ways he can smear a large part of the American people.
> ...



" USEFUL IDIOTS "    by  mona charen 


" ribbentrop in the  U.S.S.R.  -( i feel like im among my nazi friends ) "  p. 16

communist demokrats always call republicans nazis to make people look the other way as they do treason against america 


during wars you will always find demokrat leaders overseas insulting amerika !


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## Dante (Jul 14, 2011)

lehr said:


> nazis were leftists !
> 
> old man kennedy loved nazism so much that roosevelt had to re-call him back home - kennedy was making a fool of himself !   communist demokrats love control !



hey dufus ...... old man Kennedy was a Capitalist Corporatist Conservative.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2011)

Dante said:


> From Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels' Diary
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I still think this is deserving of serious consideration.


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## ShackledNation (Jul 15, 2011)

The Tea Party is the new Nazi party? Then what about the current Nazi party?

American Nazi Party

Dante, this is silly. It is painfully clear that the Tea Party has the primary goals of reducing government, at least in the economic sphere. Demeaning them as the new Nazis is shameless demagoguery.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2011)

ShackledNation said:


> The Tea Party is the new Nazi party? Then what about the current Nazi party?
> 
> American Nazi Party
> 
> Dante, this is silly. It is painfully clear that the Tea Party has the primary goals of reducing government, at least in the economic sphere. Demeaning them as the new Nazis is shameless demagoguery.



Obviously they are the old Nazi party.


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## ShackledNation (Jul 15, 2011)

Dante said:


> ShackledNation said:
> 
> 
> > The Tea Party is the new Nazi party? Then what about the current Nazi party?
> ...


They still exist. If you would like to explain why members of the Tea Party felt that the current Nazi party needed reforming to necessitate a new one, by all means do so.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2011)

ShackledNation said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > ShackledNation said:
> ...



I don't know. Maybe it's as simple as "Out with the old, in with the new"


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## beeton3 (Jul 15, 2011)

no they are just foolish people fighting to make themselves poor. the "new nazi party" has been around for sometime. they are jews, at least the leaders of the jewish community are. they use nazi propaganda to control the public and they have been working (slower mind you than the german nazis) for a long time at destroying all that is christian.
25 years ago the same joke made about a kkk is told about a christian now. i expect in a few more years kids will learn how horrible christians are and how lucky we are to be rid of them.

truth be told the Jews certainly did leaarn a lot from the nazis and are using many of their methods now against another group. I always hear that nazis are bad but i guess what they did wasnt bad enough for jews not to want to do the same to christians.


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## Dante (Jul 15, 2011)

beeton3 said:


> no they are just foolish people fighting to make themselves poor. the "new nazi party" has been around for sometime. they are jews, at least the leaders of the jewish community are. they use nazi propaganda to control the public and they have been working (slower mind you than the german nazis) for a long time at destroying all that is christian.
> 
> 25 years ago the same joke made about a kkk is told about a christian now. i expect in a few more years kids will learn how horrible christians are and how lucky we are to be rid of them.



heck!

If I knew this I would have joined up with them ages ago.

thanks for the info

_Sieg Heil_


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## Disenchanted61 (Jul 15, 2011)

i know a couple of "Tea Party" members and they are anything but "Nazi's," but they do have legitimate concerns about where the U.S. is heading. Some points of their view are a bit misguided, but they have been co-opted by "big monies" and here in lyes the problem.


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## Disenchanted61 (Jul 15, 2011)

i know a couple of "Tea Party" members and they are anything but "Nazi's," but they do have legitimate concerns about where the U.S. is heading. Some  of their point of view are a bit misguided, but they have been co-opted by "big monies" and here in lyes the problem; they are citizens  and deserve to be heard, but so do opposing points of view and they are being silenced.


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## Dante (Jul 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> i know a couple of "Tea Party" members and they are anything but "Nazi's," but they do have legitimate concerns about where the U.S. is heading. Some  of their point of view are a bit misguided, but they have been co-opted by "big monies" and here in lyes the problem; they are citizens  and deserve to be heard, but so do opposing points of view and they are being silenced.



I've met sane, rational, well-meaning people who FOLLOW the Tea Party, but who ware not leaders/spokespeople.

I see and hear from leaders who are NUTS. 

I am sure there were nice sane people in the Nazi Party of Germany


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## geauxtohell (Jul 16, 2011)

<sigh>

No, dante...............


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## oldsalt (Jul 16, 2011)

Disenchanted61 said:


> i know a couple of "Tea Party" members and they are anything but "Nazi's," but they do have legitimate concerns about where the U.S. is heading. Some points of their view are a bit misguided, but they have been co-opted by "big monies" and here in lyes the problem.



Big $$ latched onto those sheeple like a Shepard!


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## manifold (Jul 16, 2011)

Dante said:


> We have Tea Party people speaking about how they view the nation. How they view fellow citizens as outsiders. We have Tea Party rallies where people speak openly about challenging the will of the Republic (the vote) with armed insurrection.



Fear mongering, it's not just for republicans anymore.


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## Dante (Jul 16, 2011)

manifold said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > We have Tea Party people speaking about how they view the nation. How they view fellow citizens as outsiders. We have Tea Party rallies where people speak openly about challenging the will of the Republic (the vote) with armed insurrection.
> ...



what you have referred to is NOT mongering of any sort, merely a statement of facts.

I assume you (as usual) read into things. 

The mention of arms is not by itself meant as something to fear, it is the armed insurrection.

get with the program mani-pooh


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## IndependntLogic (Jul 16, 2011)

Oops. Hit thanks instead of "quick reply". 

I think is a massive stretch! I mean, I'm not a fan of the people I've seen in the TP thus far but to compare them to Nazi's??? 
Yeah, that's a comparison the ConservaRepubs make to Obama and just a credible. Not.


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## Dante (Jul 16, 2011)

IndependntLogic said:


> Oops. Hit thanks instead of "quick reply".
> 
> I think is a massive stretch! I mean, I'm not a fan of the people I've seen in the TP thus far but to compare them to Nazi's???
> Yeah, that's a comparison the ConservaRepubs make to Obama and just a credible. Not.



does this happen often?

sounds kind of serious


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## IndependntLogic (Jul 16, 2011)

Dante said:


> IndependntLogic said:
> 
> 
> > Oops. Hit thanks instead of "quick reply".
> ...



Just the other day I meant to roll up the car window and accidentally ejected my wife from the passenger seat, while simultaneously launching two surface to air missiles...


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## manifold (Jul 16, 2011)

Dante said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...





You compare a modern political movement with the Nazi movement pre-WWII but that's not fear mongering.

Good one.


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## Dante (Jul 16, 2011)

manifold said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...



The Tea Party compares itself to a movement pre-Civil War ...so what?

So if the Tea Party were not so 'modern' you would agree with Dante?


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## Sallow (Jul 16, 2011)

Dante said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > i've had domain names registered since the early 90s. wanna buy one?
> ...



Um..no.

This is just as much hyperbole as when the Conservatives compare liberals and progressives to communists.

It closes down discussion.
It cheapens the history.
And it gives rise to anger and aggression.

No one should be evoking the Nazis so frivolously.


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## Dante (Jul 16, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



yes and no


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## Dante Reawakened (Jan 5, 2023)

Interesting reading


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