# Breaking: Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas ... 7 confirmed dead



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Link Forthcoming.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Oh, man this is terrible.



> At least seven people are dead and 12 wounded in a shooting at Fort Hood in Texas, the base's public affairs office told NBC News on Thursday.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

_The official would not give his name nor additional details. It was unknown whether victims are soldiers or civilians. One gunman was reportedly in custody and another was on the loose, NBC News said. A third shooter may be involved, according to NBC News affiliate KCEN, which said the person had opened fire on the SWAT team at the base. _

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

---

Damn...



peace...


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

CNN guy reports it was two guys carring "F-16"s while on-air.


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## DiamondDave (Nov 5, 2009)

Got a buddy down there too... gotta find his number in my list when I get home and give a call... have not spoke to him in a while but I think he is still stationed there for at least another 6 months


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

2 confirmed gunmen ... they got one in custody and suspect there is a third at large.

My first instinct was this is a soldier gone crazy like what happened at Bragg back in the 90's when a soldier set up shop and oped fire on his unit while they were PT'ing but this sounds like something much different.


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

3 Shooters makes one Think Terrorist Attack...

Just Sayin'...



peace...


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## Dr.House (Nov 5, 2009)

3 shooters sounds coordinated....


Damn, this sucks...

Prayers for the victims and their families....


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## Sarah G (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> 2 confirmed gunmen ... they got one in custody and suspect there is a third at large.
> 
> My first instinct was this is a soldier gone crazy like what happened at Bragg back in the 90's when a soldier set up shop and oped fire on his unit while they were PT'ing but this sounds like something much different.



I just got home and saw this on the news.  I thought it might be a meltdown too.  If it was that, why three of them.


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

A Potential of (3) Soldiers "Snapping" together or Planning to Attack other Soldiers and or Civilians @ Hood is something that I don't Find very Plausible.



peace...


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

I know someone who is stationed there also. I better go check his facebook.


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

we had this happen here about ten years ago, where a Gulf War vet snapped and killed a few people on the base here.  I wonder if it is the same sort of deal?


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## Sarah G (Nov 5, 2009)

Maybe drugs.


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

Sounds like Lubys Part II

They breed them strange down in Killeen



> The Luby's massacre was an incident of mass murder that took place on October 16, 1991 in Killeen, Texas, United States when George Jo Hennard drove his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot and killed 23 people, wounded another 20 and then committed suicide by shooting himself. It remained the deadliest shooting rampage in American history until the Virginia Tech Massacre.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

turn on the tv


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

They got one guy "neutralized" (dead I think) and another cornered in a building.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> CNN guy reports it was two guys carring "F-16"s while on-air.



Some strong dudes if they can carry fighter jets ...


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## xsited1 (Nov 5, 2009)

I wonder if Islam is involved...


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

WTF oh damn...watching now on Foxnews


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

msnbc says they have one gunman in custody and I think they have two other cornered.
I just hope my friend from high school wasn't there at the time.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> I wonder if Islam is involved...



Muslim terrorists is certainly a possibility.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> I wonder if Islam is involved...


Nah Acorn seiu or tea party patriots for sure.


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## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

fwiw, msnbc just stated that the perps and the vicitims are all military personnel.


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Fake ID got someone on the base? If this happens to be the case I wonder if the Military will go back to active duty checking ID's instead of civilian hire.  

This was planned, could be two army guys who got busted or something.


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## Valerie (Nov 5, 2009)

> A massive manhunt was under way for the suspect at large, Fox News confirmed. One person was in custody. The New York Post said that there were two shooters at the Army post massacre; other reports said there were three.
> 
> T*he attack apparently happened at Ft. Hood's Soldier Readiness Center. Army officials didn't know whether the victims were civilians or military personnel.
> *
> ...


At Least 7 Dead, 20 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com








> Fort Hood is the Army's largest U.S. post, with about 40,000 troops. It is home to the Army's 1st Cavalry Division and elements of the 4th Infantry Division, as well as the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment and the 13th Corps Support Command. It is located near Killeen, Texas.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

This happened at Pass and ID?


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> This happened at Pass and ID?



TV just said two separate attacks.  One at a medical facility and the other at a theater.


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > This happened at Pass and ID?
> ...


I heard this...you can bet your sweet ass that ALL Military bases are NOW in threatcon C.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

i am watching cnn...they are saying they were in military uniform but that means nothing....yes i would agree all bases on high alert....saying about 30 wounded


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> fwiw, msnbc just stated that the perps and the vicitims are all military personnel.



Damn... (3) Military People doing this together?...

I Continue to Hope that this is not the Case.



peace...


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

9 dead now....wounded close to 30


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## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

No terrorist connection according to the FBI.


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

I just heard that also. It was probably some soldiers suffering from PTSD or some crazy wackos, hopefully not from this area because they usually are. jk


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

why, i dont care who it is....why?


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## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

I wonder what the religion of the shooter is ???


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## Valerie (Nov 5, 2009)

> *Violence All Too Familiar at Fort Hood*
> 
> A mass shooting Thursday at Fort Hood in Texas was the latest in a series of violence incidents at the military post in the past two years.
> 
> ...



Violence All Too Familiar at Fort Hood - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

this goes on at all bases...you take this many single men....pump them up for war...or have them just getting home...and hell breaks loose...it did in the vietnam era and it has now...you have murders etc all bases just like any civilian population that is as large...

they are saying one is hold up in the px and they are talking about how far the shooters got


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> No terrorist connection according to the FBI.


Yet the FBI is going to the scene.  Mop up?


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

They're going to start bringing wounded down here to BAMC.


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## Xenophon (Nov 5, 2009)

Smells of terrorist attack.

Attacks at three different locations and three shooters.

Terrorist doesn't automatically mean Muslim BTW.


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> They're going to start bringing wounded down here to BAMC.


Brooks?


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Fort Sam.  Probably Lackland too for Wilford Hall.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

The got the second shooter.

Obama to speak shortly ....


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Fort Sam.  Probably Lackland too for Wilford Hall.


Yeah I thought brooks was closed...my guess is Wilford Hall.


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> this goes on at all bases...you take this many single men....pump them up for war...or have them just getting home...and hell breaks loose...it did in the vietnam era and it has now...you have murders etc all bases just like any civilian population that is as large...
> 
> they are saying one is hold up in the px and they are talking about how far the shooters got


we had it happen here on our air force base after the first Gulf war. It is very sad.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > No terrorist connection according to the FBI.
> ...


Military bases are under Federal jurisdiction.

That makes it FBI business.


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

Xenophon said:


> Smells of terrorist attack.
> 
> Attacks at three different locations and three shooters.
> 
> Terrorist doesn't automatically mean Muslim BTW.



Correct.

McVeigh and Co were Obviously NOT Muslim and WERE Military...

But this one is Different... 3 Shooters Requires some Serious Premeditation and Planning.



peace...


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Sam.  Probably Lackland too for Wilford Hall.
> ...



Brook Army Med Center is on Fort Sam.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

i am with the poster who mentioned security being contracted out....i am against that too...why not let the military provides its own security?


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...


OSI or SIB can handle it and have in the past. Unless the installation Commander invites them, they usually are not the overall lead on the investigation but rather observe.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

ooooo nicole if your hubbys commander figures out who you are...you are in big trouble...


*nicole is a miltary wife on cnn speaking by phone...now she is talking about where she lives...and what her husband is doing.....nicole shut the hell up*


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> i am with the poster who mentioned security being contracted out....i am against that too...why not let the military provides its own security?



Most bases contract out gate security.  Its mainly to save money and because they need the soldiers for the wars.  Good ol budget cuts!


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## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> > Smells of terrorist attack.
> ...



McVeigh was a Catholic.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

12 dead...one gunman dead


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## Ringel05 (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



CID actually, FBI is probably there to help out.


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> i am with the poster who mentioned security being contracted out....i am against that too...why not let the military provides its own security?


It use to Bones but Congress during the Clinton years and before voted to lower the Troop Numbers.  CUTS basically in manpower, therefore they didn't have the manpower to man the Installation Gates, so they went to Civilian. The cost was cheaper too.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Fuck 12 dead now ...


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Link Forthcoming.



My Co-Worker, the retired marine, has been on the phone with a friend in the area. 

He just popped his head in the office and said to me  "Another f-ing example of the pussification of america....they are on a military base why hasn't someone shot them dead yet?"


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

2 more confirmed dead just now


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

This is why everyone should be allowed to tote everywhere.  Cowardly shooters like this always target crowds they know to be unarmed.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

i would expect them to all be dead but they are in a highly populated area...and an area populated by dependants


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Fuck 12 dead now ...



33 wounded


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> 12 dead...one gunman dead



Damn.



peace...


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

isnt this an act of terrorism...regardless of who did it?


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Lt. General there just said that the shooters were soldiers ...


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 5, 2009)

It was a soldier apparently


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> isnt this an act of terrorism...regardless of who did it?


In my opinion, Yes Bones.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

This shit is fucked.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> isnt this an act of terrorism...regardless of who did it?



Terrorism:  violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, carried out for political purposes

Yup sounds like terrorism bones.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Lt. General there just said that the shooters were soldiers ...



yes the 3 of them were in fatigues


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## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> This is why everyone should be allowed to tote everywhere.  Cowardly shooters like this always target crowds they know to be unarmed.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 5, 2009)

Just heard - it was two soldiers, one is dead and it happened at the readiness deployment area.


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

General on the news said it was a contactor security guard?


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > This is why everyone should be allowed to tote everywhere.  Cowardly shooters like this always target crowds they know to be unarmed.



You got reading comprehension problems?


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## bodecea (Nov 5, 2009)

Ringel05 said:


> Just heard - it was two soldiers, one is dead and it happened at the readiness deployment area.



Not being Army....is that where they are prepping for deployment?


And as to the numbers quoted who did it....we are hearing lots of rumors right now.   Might just be one.   It will be a while before we know for sure.


Now FOX is talking about Islamic moles.


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## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...


You're an idiot. Military bases are crawling with guns.


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> isnt this an act of terrorism...regardless of who did it?



Yes!


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> General on the news said it was a contactor security guard?



I heard Lt. General Bob Cone say that they were soldiers.


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> General on the news said it was a contactor security guard?


If so this is going to cause a big cluster fuck.  Many military cops didn't want our military installations to go to contractor's.  The military was warned that this would happen.  I felt so too for years.  I mean the majority are good people just doing their job but the door would be wide open for unstable people (wanna be cops that couldn't make it through training to be a cop)or people who just are bad and want to harm our Military.  That door was open.  Now I wonder if that door will be closed? No I say, not unless congress increases the enlisted force.


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

bodecea said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Just heard - it was two soldiers, one is dead and it happened at the readiness deployment area.
> ...



Just about all Army bases stage their units for deployment.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > General on the news said it was a contactor security guard?
> ...



It is 3 soldiers.  One ran away, one is dead, one is still at large.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

bodecea said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Just heard - it was two soldiers, one is dead and it happened at the readiness deployment area.
> ...



My understanding is yes.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

Ringel05 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...


The CID is the Barney Fife of the military.

Remember Col. Flagg on the tv show MASH

He was CID


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## bodecea (Nov 5, 2009)

President talking now.


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



No they're not you fucking idiot.  In most cases you are not allowed to carry a weapon on a federal installation.  That's certainly been the case for bases I've been at.  Military bases do not allow people to carry guns.  Especially at a PX.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

omg did obama just give a fucking shout out....................


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



Not that i'm a moderator or much more than a noob here but would you two mind taking this elsewhere.

It feels innapropriate at the current point in time in this thread.


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



It was a contractor security guard who was one of the victims


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## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > General on the news said it was a contactor security guard?
> ...


If the shooter/s were military personnel it wouldn't matter who was checking their id, would it?


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 5, 2009)

Don't know if this was posted earlier . . . it just said that 12 were dead on the news.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



*Please, keep the flame out of this thread, you two.*


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



I'm getting text messages from the scene so I could be wrong.  My co-workers friend chris is stationed there....he just got back from AFG 2 weeks ago and now has this shit in his face.   He is locked down in a building about 20 ft away from it all.


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> omg did obama just give a fucking shout out....................



To who?  Wasn't watching.


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

no ravi it would not matter...they would have the id to get on base...


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## strollingbones (Nov 5, 2009)

i have no clue who the shout out was to....


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## Zoom-boing (Nov 5, 2009)

At least 31 hurt, 12 dead


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

I believe the toll is up to 13.  One shooter dead, the other 2 captured, all US soldiers.

On a side note in my home town, on summer street, swat has locked down the road because 2 men with handguns are wandering the street.

full moon


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## Ringel05 (Nov 5, 2009)

bodecea said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Just heard - it was two soldiers, one is dead and it happened at the readiness deployment area.
> ...



Still lot's of rumors flying around.  Although like you I am former Navy I have two brothers, now retired, that were career Army and yes that is the prep location prior to departure to whichever assignment the unit is being sent on.


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

Obama's Speaking... Where was that from



peace...


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

Ft Hood is quite difficult to get on if you are not Military. If these guys were soldiers, its not tough to bring weapons in. You can even hunt on post


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Its over now.  They have been captured/killed.

The 3 of them were US soldiers.


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> omg did obama just give a fucking shout out....................



Yes, he's very blase' about this to say the least.


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Ft Hood is quite difficult to get on if you are not Military. If these guys were soldiers, its not tough to bring weapons in. You can even hunt on post



Correct.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > omg did obama just give a fucking shout out....................
> ...



c'mon guys not right now...we have dead soldiers to think about lets not turn this into a hammer against obama.


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## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

It sounds as if it were three soldiers.

That's pretty fucked up. Why would three soldiers get together and do such a thing?


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Of the 12 dead, one is the shooter.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It sounds as if it were three soldiers.
> 
> That's pretty fucked up. Why would three soldiers get together and do such a thing?



I dunno but we're going to find out.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> It sounds as if it were three soldiers.
> 
> That's pretty fucked up. Why would three soldiers get together and do such a thing?



The place it started from was where troops coming home and deploying are given the mental screening.   Either they were suffering from battelfield stress or they didn't want to deploy  IMO.

I'm just glad its over.


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Its over now.  They have been captured/killed.
> 
> The 3 of them were US soldiers.



Three! I'm not buying the "meltdown". This was a coordinated attack! I'm with bones, it was a terrorist attack. Home grown looks like right now.


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...



Unfortunately liberals are already trying to spin this into "Iraq is driving our soldiers crazy".


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Man there are going to be such grief on some family members there! Bad enough they were worried about their spouse was going off to war, and to get killed before they even left is just even more gut wrenching.


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## David Duke (Nov 5, 2009)

One of the shooters name according to ABC news: Not suprising.

Shooter: Major Malik Nadal Hasan...


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > strollingbones said:
> ...



wasn't meant as a "hammer" just an observation.


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

Name I just heard of one of the Shooters via AP was Potentially of Islamic Origin...



peace...


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

David Duke said:


> One of the shooters name according to ABC news: Not suprising.
> 
> Shooter: Major Malik Nadal Hasan...



^That's what I Heard...



peace...


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> Man there are going to be such grief on some family members there! Bad enough they were worried about their spouse was going off to war, and to get killed before they even left is just even more gut wrenching.



There are a lot of soldiers there who just returned home from AFG too Terry.  Imagin that crap....in a warzone for the last who knows how long then you come home to your fellow soldiers shooting up a military base in country.   

This is just a sad and shocking situation.


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

David Duke said:


> One of the shooters name according to ABC news: Not suprising.
> 
> Shooter: Major Malik Nadal Hasan...



Seriously?


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Man there are going to be such grief on some family members there! Bad enough they were worried about their spouse was going off to war, and to get killed before they even left is just even more gut wrenching.
> ...


Oh Man I wish I could help..give my shoulder to lean on or something. Stuff like this breaks my heart!


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## Mike458877 (Nov 5, 2009)

Please send your love, support and prayers to our brothers and sisters at Ft. Hood. They need their Nation behind them!

I know that post, along with other Texas posts, wonderful people, simply wonderful. 

My heart is broken and my soul enraged and cannot give further thoughts right now. 

Please, rise and stand behind those at Ft. Hood. 

Mike


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm walking away from the thread now.

Lets all pray for the wounded and all the friends and families of those injured and killed.


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> David Duke said:
> 
> 
> > One of the shooters name according to ABC news: Not suprising.
> ...



Yep... I Heard it via AP...



peace...


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

This isn't the first time terrorists have tried to assault soldiers at a base. Fort Dix! and a couple of others come to mind. How horrible. Wake up World. Wake up.


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> David Duke said:
> 
> 
> > One of the shooters name according to ABC news: Not suprising.
> ...



Before y'all go on a "ZOMG teh evil Muslims" tangent you might want to make sure that this is true ant that the other two were Muslim also ...


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > David Duke said:
> ...



Thanks for Assuming that I would Assume... 



peace...


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > David Duke said:
> ...



Oh, so it could be another Sgt. Asan Akbar "situation" times 3.


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## Maple (Nov 5, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > David Duke said:
> ...



Oh great, now we are letting these freggin towel heads in our own military. Send them back to their own countries on the next boat out of here and let them rot there. I have had enough of them and I am sick and tired of the so-called peaceful muslims not speaking out against terrorism. You never hear that.


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

^Damn...



peace...


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## mal (Nov 5, 2009)

Major Malik Nadal Hasan - Google Images

^Today is the last time Google won't have Pics of the Shooter.



peace...


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## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



I didn't single you out ...

And I my assumptions were correct:

Exhibit A:



Maple said:


> Oh great, now we are letting these freggin towel heads in our own military. Send them back to their own countries on the next boat out of here and let them rot there. I have had enough of them and I am sick and tired of the so-called peaceful muslims not speaking out against terrorism. You never hear that.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > David Duke said:
> ...



Im back.   So what if they were all muslim? we have many America loving muslims in this country and in our armed services....put away the broad brush.

Now im gone


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> I wonder what the religion of the shooter is ???



Major Malik Nadal Hasan, anyones guess.


----------



## Maple (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



I only need one muslim to confirm what's going on here, Al Queida has wanted to plant an army of towel heads into our army, that is well known and with the shooter having a towel head name tells me everything that I need to know. This was an act of terrorism and again on our ground.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

They said he was a Major

So he must have been in the army for quite a few years.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 5, 2009)

It's gonna take at least until tomorrow for them to get any kind of sense out of this.

I'm wondering if that major was a foreign exchange officer (you DO know that the military does this, saw quite a few of 'em in Newport, as well as tried to go on the Personnel Exchange Program myself).

If he was, was he a Muslim, and if so, why the fuck didn't they screen him better?

As far as letting civvies guard the base?  I don't and never have agreed with this.  Why?  Simple......military people can identify other military types whether or not they are in uniform, because they have the same mindset, as well as some of the same mannerisms as yourself.

Civilians don't have that.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> It's gonna take at least until tomorrow for them to get any kind of sense out of this.
> 
> I'm wondering if that major was a foreign exchange officer (you DO know that the military does this, saw quite a few of 'em in Newport, as well as tried to go on the Personnel Exchange Program myself).
> 
> ...


All I heard is this guy is from Virginia and he converted to Islam. Was upset about being deployed, spoke and complained days before this happened.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> They said he was a Major
> 
> So he must have been in the army for quite a few years.


Moved from  Virginia a recent convert  to  Islam.


----------



## Liability (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> They said he was a Major
> 
> So he must have been in the army for quite a few years.



I wonder how long he was a Muslim?

There MAY be no connection between his ethnicity/religion and his alleged participation in the shooting.

But if it turns out that he was making some kind of Islamist statement ("jihad!") I will not be surprised in the slightest.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Gov. Perry just stated that there was 3 shooters...that means it was planned.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

One of the great annoyances of having media available 24/7, and as news breaks, is all the innuendo and half-arsed suppositions that get made. How about waiting a couple of days until the info comes out before making any conclusions?


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > They said he was a Major
> ...



Does anyone remember this past summer? An African American recently converted to Islam drove by a recruiting office and killed two soldiers? It happened right after the abortionist doctor was killed.


----------



## Dr.Traveler (Nov 5, 2009)

No matter the situation, this is sad.  I need to check in on someone we know at Fort Hood.  Truly heinous.

No matter why or who did this, pray for the families of the dead and dying.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> One of the great annoyances of having media available 24/7, and as news breaks, is all the innuendo and half-arsed suppositions that get made. How about waiting a couple of days until the info comes out before making any conclusions?



this is a message board, it's what we do, discuss the news, and make wild assed guesses as to who what and why, it's a way to deal with the shock.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

What is nauseating is the lengths to which people will go to try to pin this sort of behavior on the Army rather than on the person who did it.

The media is already spinning it, and I see ppl on here doing it as well.


----------



## Liability (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > One of the great annoyances of having media available 24/7, and as news breaks, is all the innuendo and half-arsed suppositions that get made. How about waiting a couple of days until the info comes out before making any conclusions?
> ...



I wonder why the FBI made a VERY early pronouncement that this was not a terrorist related event?

The FIBBIES are gonna look rather foolish if it shortly turns out to have been very much an attack based on some deranged notion of Islamism, particularly in light of the fact that there were evidently at least three people involved in this tragic incident.


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

I think it's a shame that, before the US Army has actually confirmed the name, the less responsible media are putting it out anyway. Whatever your thoughts on the shooter (and as someone with friends and loved ones in the Army I am among them) this guy has family who may not be aware. 

Fucking media.


----------



## Maple (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr.Traveler said:


> No matter the situation, this is sad.  I need to check in on someone we know at Fort Hood.  Truly heinous.
> 
> No matter why or who did this, pray for the families of the dead and dying.



People keep telling me that Islam is a religion of peace. I truly have to question that, I never see any Islam leader or mullah speak out against the atrocities that we all see them commit. 

I have never been prejudice a day in my life until 9-11, now anytime I see a muslim I watch every move that they make. I do not trust them and doubt that I ever will.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 5, 2009)

According to what I've just heard on Hardball with Chris Matthews, the guy was protesting being deployed to Iraq.


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> ^Damn...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...





tha malcontent said:


> Major Malik Nadal Hasan - Google Images
> 
> ^Today is the last time Google won't have Pics of the Shooter.
> 
> ...



Bad form Mal. It's not the time or the place for such half assed "comment"


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> According to what I've just heard on Hardball with Chris Matthews, the guy was protesting being deployed to Iraq.


Yes but as a Major he surely knew his chain of command and his options.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> According to what I've just heard on Hardball with Chris Matthews, the guy was protesting being deployed to Iraq.



What did he think was going to happen to him if he joined the Army?


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Crap. "Don't send soldiers to war or they'll go nuts!"


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

PS, he had other people working with him.Unlikely a protest.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Fucking media.



Just the way it is....


----------



## PixieStix (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> What is nauseating is the lengths to which people will go to try to pin this sort of behavior on the Army rather than on the person who did it.
> 
> The media is already spinning it, and I see ppl on here doing it as well.


 
Me too, it truly is nauseating. PC is and has been destroying this nation for some time now. Are Muslims a protected class since 9-11? Sure they are

The guy was a convert to Islam, which by the way makes him a muslim

Does terrorism by any other name make it a lesser terror act? they are called to strike fear into the hearts of the infidel. I do not fear calling a spade a spade.

This is terrorism plain and simple, this is jihad in our own back yard and people are afraid to call it what it is? WHY? I ask

I am disgusted and heartbroken. To know people who are Soldiers and Marines, they know the truth, why don't we?

They do not hate on Muslims or the religion, but they are aware more than most of what the heart of the matter is. There are jihadists that indeed kill for allah.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> PS, he had other people working with him.Unlikely a protest.



It wasn't a protest, it was a terrorist attack.


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

The thing that annoys me most when this shit happens is that instead of responsible journalism, we get a bunch of half assed "journalists" guessing about the 'why', speculating about stuff without regard for people who may be hurt by it. 

Interestingly, the last of the media to run the name? Those irresponsible rightwing whackjobs at Faux News. They chose to wait until they got the name directly from the Army.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

CNN just said that this guy was a mental health professional ....


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> The thing that annoys me most when this shit happens is that instead of responsible journalism, we get a bunch of half assed "journalists" guessing about the 'why', speculating about stuff without regard for people who may be hurt by it.
> 
> Interestingly, the last of the media to run the name? Those irresponsible rightwing whackjobs at Faux News. They chose to wait until they got the name directly from the Army.



I just heard Shepard Smith refuse to run with it, turn to Mr. Ed. and the name is all over the place.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> CNN just said that this guy was a mental health professional ....



what are they saying about the other two?


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

All they are saying now is that the guy was pissed off about being redeployed to Iraq.

It may have nothing to do with his religious beliefs. We will have to wait and see


----------



## PixieStix (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> All they are saying now is that the guy was pissed off about being redeployed to Iraq.
> 
> It may have nothing to do with his religious beliefs. We will have to wait and see


 
Right


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> The thing that annoys me most when this shit happens is that instead of responsible journalism, we get a bunch of half assed "journalists" guessing about the 'why', speculating about stuff without regard for people who may be hurt by it.



They have to fill in the time somehow...especially if it is live to air. The alternative is.....?


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> All they are saying now is that the guy was pissed off about being redeployed to Iraq.
> 
> It may have nothing to do with his religious beliefs. We will have to wait and see


I would normally agree but two others were involved. This was reported by a military member on scene as a planned execution style attack


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > CNN just said that this guy was a mental health professional ....
> ...



Nothing other than that they are in custody.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

You're a lefty droid.

3 ppl are responsible. This isn't a matter of some kid stressing out.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

whoops, not you 15.


----------



## Annie (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > All they are saying now is that the guy was pissed off about being redeployed to Iraq.
> ...



Agreed. 2 handguns with the guy shot dead. 12 dead, 31 wounded. 1 person?


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > The thing that annoys me most when this shit happens is that instead of responsible journalism, we get a bunch of half assed "journalists" guessing about the 'why', speculating about stuff without regard for people who may be hurt by it.
> ...



That's because he is a professional. He waited until the US Army confirmed the name - which means they had ensured his family were aware. His family are guilty of nothing and it is horrific that they probably found out about this via some crappy unprofessional 'news' channel.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> whoops, not you 15.



lol ... no worries ... I didn't think you meant me.


----------



## Big Black Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

My son is stationed at Fort Hood.  I just got an e-mail from my daughter.  She said that he had sent her a quick e-mail so she could let everybody know that he and his family were safe.  As you can imagine, he told her things at Fort Hood were very secure right now.  Not just because my son is stationed there at Fort Hood but isn't anybody smart enough to know that the terrorist muslim bastards are inflitrating all areas of our country these days and things like this are going to pop up like this more and more often. The US needs to get smart and start looking into the muslim population in this country with a fine tooth comb.  I wouldn't at all be surprised if Obama himself isn't a muslim or a muslim sympathizer.


----------



## Maple (Nov 5, 2009)

Annie said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



They just stated that a civilian police officer shot and killed the shooter and someone else shot the police officer and killed him. This was a planned out terrorist attack.
No way, one person could have done that kind of damage with just handguns, there were others involved.


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > All they are saying now is that the guy was pissed off about being redeployed to Iraq.
> ...



We don't KNOW 2 others were involved. That's just what is currently reported.


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 5, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > All they are saying now is that the guy was pissed off about being redeployed to Iraq.
> ...



That's what I am hearing too.  Do you have the inside scoop or something?


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

Maple said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...



According to Fox, the other two have been released. 

We don't know shit right now. The vast majority of what we 'know', we don't really 'know'.


----------



## ba1614 (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Congressman Carter just said on fox that the 2 that were in custody have been released, and they are still looking for 1 more.

 EDIT: You heard it before I typed it.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

Big Black Dog said:


> I wouldn't at all be surprised if Obama himself isn't a muslim or a muslim sympathizer.



Do you think Pres. Obama was involved in this incident???


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Yea and now they are still looking for another shooter.


----------



## Maple (Nov 5, 2009)

Big Black Dog said:


> My son is stationed at Fort Hood.  I just got an e-mail from my daughter.  She said that he had sent her a quick e-mail so she could let everybody know that he and his family were safe.  As you can imagine, he told her things at Fort Hood were very secure right now.  Not just because my son is stationed there at Fort Hood but isn't anybody smart enough to know that the terrorist muslim bastards are inflitrating all areas of our country these days and things like this are going to pop up like this more and more often. The US needs to get smart and start looking into the muslim population in this country with a fine tooth comb.  I wouldn't at all be surprised if Obama himself isn't a muslim or a muslim sympathizer.




There was an arrest recently of a muslim living in Denver who had plans to blow up something in New York, using the same technique that they did on the Spain subway train. When are we going to have enough of these people. Then we get a muslim living here that runs over his own daughter because she is becoming too westernized. These people are freegin nuts and they are roaming our streets and infiltrating into our society. There is NOTHING peaceful about this religion or their followers, they are a violent group of people intent on forcing their religion and beliefs on everyone else or killing them, and the so-called peaceful muslims say NADA, nothing to condem these atrocities. Yeah, I am prejudised and have reason to be so.


----------



## PixieStix (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't at all be surprised if Obama himself isn't a muslim or a muslim sympathizer.
> ...


 
No, it was Bush's fault


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Big Black Dog said:
> ...


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PixieStix again


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

Willow

See Maple and Black Dog's posts to see why it is stupid/dangerous to assume...


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

The Army has released the name of Hasan.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



I did it for you Terry


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...


TY, PIXIE did he? If he did I'll give him rep for repping you. LOL


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> The Army has released the name of Hasan.



There is a press conference coming in about 10 minutes or so.  How do you know that name was released?


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

Maple said:


> Oh great, now we are letting these freggin towel heads in our own military. Send them back to their own countries on the next boat out of here and let them rot there. I have had enough of them and
> 
> I am sick and tired of the so-called peaceful muslims not speaking out against terrorism. You never hear that.


 

From the Council on American-Islamic Relations...



> We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law.
> 
> No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured.


 
That sounds like peaceful muslims speaking out against terrorism to me.

Link-a-dee-doo-dah


----------



## PixieStix (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...


 
He did, That was weird getting pos rep from him


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> The Army has released the name of Hasan.



Yea, but let's not jump to conclusions right? 

He targeted the deployment center where they process soldiers.  He was there to kill as many soldiers as he could who had either just came back from the ME or on their way there.

Like I said, another Sgt Akbar.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


I know the feeling. LOL


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Sarah G said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > The Army has released the name of Hasan.
> ...



Its all over the net.  And Fox just confirmed it.


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



O I C..  Fox...


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

Sarah G said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > The Army has released the name of Hasan.
> ...



Because Fox had the official from the Army on the phone live.


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...


 
But that means that Pixie will only get the 20 that Sunni can give and lose out on the 59 that you can give.

I would recommend that you rep Sunni, then rep me, and rep a few others...then you can rep Pixie as she properly deserves.

And it probably *is* Bush's fault since he lives closer to Fort Hood than all of the other former Presidents.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Whore!


----------



## PixieStix (Nov 5, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Sarah G said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



Yes, they are reporting he is 39-40 year old Major in the Army.  Malik Nadal Hasan, a mental health doctor of some kind for the Army.

What's so funny?


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

Sarah G said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



Well, at least they had the good grace to actually wait to get the name confirmed from the fucking Army. Unlike the rest of the 'legitimate' media who ran with it on 'rumor' and 'insider' info. 

Personally, I call that responsible journalism. An inconvenient truth for the drooling koolaiders, but that's life.


----------



## Annie (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



A psychiatrist is now being reported. Had been at Walter Reed, recently transferred.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 5, 2009)

Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.


----------



## PixieStix (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...


 

I repped him


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...


I did too..he cracks me up.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.



Don't you want to wait until the facts are clear before you start calling names?


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



Who ran with it?  They were saying on msnbc that there would be a press conference on it.


----------



## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Xenophon said:
> ...


what does that have to do with anything?


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.



Interesting that you apparently know more than the US Army. Because they say they don't know yet.


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

Sarah G said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



ABC and CNN both reported it before the Army confirmed the name. Piss poor journalism from apparent legitimate broadcasters.... Those quick to condemn "Faux" news, might want to make note that they bothered to withhold the name - and ensured that no one they interviewed named him, until they had it confirmed from the Army.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.




Fact is that we do not have any clue as to the motivation behind this yet. We do not even know for certain that the two soldiers in custody had anything to do with it. It could have been a flat out murder of one primary target or it could have been an act of terrorism.

We probably will not know for a few days.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

According to Ft. Hood, Hasan was not alone.  





> Release No. 20091105-01
> 
> III Corps & Fort Hood Public Affairs Office
> Contact Christopher J. Haug Chief, Media Relations
> ...


----------



## rdean (Nov 5, 2009)

The first thing that crossed my mind was another Religious Extremist.

I never would have guessed an Army Major and a psychiatrist.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > What is nauseating is the lengths to which people will go to try to pin this sort of behavior on the Army rather than on the person who did it.
> ...



Anyone who converts to Islam is mentally derranged. It's one thing to be brainwashed since birth, but converting.....


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 5, 2009)

rdean said:


> The first thing that crossed my mind was another Religious Extremist.
> 
> I never would have guessed an Army Major and a psychiatrist.



I hope that serves as a lesson to you.


----------



## rdean (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.



You must know him.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Interesting.....

Dhulli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > The first thing that crossed my mind was another Religious Extremist.
> ...



Hate to say so but I'm with rdean on this one.  Looks like it very well could of been a jihadist.  I never would of guessed him to be a psychiatrist in the Army either.


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...


 
*  GO FOX NEWS!!!*


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.



that's why we call you Dummies!


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.



You're not helping.

The fact is that WE don't know jack shit.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.
> ...



I agree with you, willow, that those condemn irresponsibly are indeed dummies.


----------



## ba1614 (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Fact is that we do not have any clue as to the motivation behind this yet. We do not even know for certain that the two soldiers in custody had anything to do with it. It could have been a flat out murder of one primary target or it could have been an act of terrorism.
> 
> We probably will not know for a few days.



the two soldiers in custody have already been released Ollie


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Interesting.....
> 
> Dhulli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
What's so interesting, mm?


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

ba1614 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is that we do not have any clue as to the motivation behind this yet. We do not even know for certain that the two soldiers in custody had anything to do with it. It could have been a flat out murder of one primary target or it could have been an act of terrorism.
> ...



According to CNN they released those two but still have somebody in custody.

Press conference coming soon.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Moron.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting.....
> ...



Whoever just edited that into Wiki fucked up.  Every officer's rank is abbreviated with a period after it except the Major's ....


----------



## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


You're the twit that blamed it on Clinton on page one or two of this thread.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

OK each clip of a 9-mm can hold 15 rounds that is 30 rounds, this guy if he was a loner would have to reload to hit as many as he did in a short time frame. Not to mention this guy was in the Medical Field therefore not known to be a good shooter.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 5, 2009)

ba1614 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is that we do not have any clue as to the motivation behind this yet. We do not even know for certain that the two soldiers in custody had anything to do with it. It could have been a flat out murder of one primary target or it could have been an act of terrorism.
> ...



So it's starting to look like the Doc went off the deep end and acted alone.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> OK each clip of a 9-mm can hold 15 rounds that is 30 rounds, this guy if he was a loner would have to reload to hit as many as he did in a short time frame. *Not to mention this guy was in the Medical Field therefore not known to be a good shooter.*




This guy could have a marksman ribbon with a silver oak leaf cluster for all we know ....


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...


It wasn't _just_ edited in, according to the history. However I will fix the small formality error right now.

I noted this merely due to the small coincidence it was, a result of a Google search of this suspect's name and rank.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Maple said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Where have you been?

Statements Against Terror
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJK05g2j3Vs]YouTube - Indian Muslims declare terrorism anti-Islamic - 03 Nov 09[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX7kuQ2h_zc]YouTube - Muslim Protest at Saudi Embassy, Washington, DC[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-1XQZNtoGM]YouTube - JHELUM Protest against Al-Qaeda & Taliban after they killed Dr. Mufti Sarfaraz Naeemi in Lahore[/ame]


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...


Shut the fuck up, ravi.  You are so fucking paranoid.  Terry blamed nothing on Clinton.

Get your partisan head out of your partisan ass - just for once in your pathetic little life.  You keep trying in this thread.  Just stop it.  Please.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Wow.  Fox News has Col Terry Lee (Ret) that worked with this Hasan guy.  He is confirming Hasan was a Muslim convert and believed Muslims should "rise up against the aggressors".


----------



## California Girl (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...



It's not the same name, it's a similar name. 

Malik Nadal Hasan, Major, US Army (KA Nadal)


----------



## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...




lol...she's not the only one that tried to make it partisan...but your blinders are noted.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...


I know.


----------



## Annie (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Wow.  Fox News has Col Terry Lee (Ret) that worked with this Hasan guy.  He is confirming Hasan was a Muslim convert and believed Muslims should "rise up against the aggressors".



I'm listening to that, was switching around before that. This guy explains to a large degree why he got a bad review. He seems to say that there must be a reason why he went from Walter Reed to Ft. Hood.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...





Thanks MM and CG


----------



## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Wow.  Fox News has Col Terry Lee (Ret) that worked with this Hasan guy.  He is confirming Hasan was a Muslim convert and believed Muslims should "rise up against the aggressors".


People that are mentally deranged tend to use any excuse they can find to justify their bad actions.

It seems more likely that someone that recently converted to Islam was looking for a reason to justify his actions to himself.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


You stupid bitch - Terry did no such thing.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


I was only trying to state the fact that from Clinton and before him that Congress cut the total allotted enlisted force. I wasn't signaling Clinton out ding dong, I was using his name as a point B-A reference.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


I don't believe you, but whatever.

I'm sure you have been just as outraged at the outsourcing of military duties that went on under Bush.

It wouldn't have mattered in this instance, the people checking id wouldn't have prevented this guy from getting on base.


----------



## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



why don't you go check the obama's response thread and see which side is the one that is mostly making this a partisan issue.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

Luissa said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Luissa said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


yeah go check and show me where I posted in that thread.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Hasan's cousin is on Fox News right now.

He says Hasan was protesting going over there since 9/11.
He tried to get out of the military to not deploy.
He is saying Hasan is not a convert, he has always been a Muslim.


----------



## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I didn't read who he was quoting.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


And they both can go check where I have posted there saying it's NOT partisan.

Damn.  Stupidity and paranoia.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

*Ladies, ladies, ladies ....


Please ... if your going douche at each other can you take it to PMs (no pun intended)?*


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?

Shogun and Dogshit, who you crappin?



> 13 dead, 30 wounded in shootings at Fort Hood - Crime & courts- msnbc.com
> NBC News Pete Williams reported that U.S. officials identified the gunman as* Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, *an Army psychiatrist who had been promoted to major in May. A defense official told NBC News that Hasan arrived at Fort Hood in July for his first assignment after completing his psychiatry residency at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, followed by a fellowship in disaster and preventive psychiatry.



Appeasing Islamofacism only breeds more attacks!


----------



## Annie (Nov 5, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Personally can't see how any of this has gotten partisan, with the sole exception of Obama addressing the Native American Conference, before the shooting, but that is a personal viewpoint. Whatever happened, lone crazy person, terror attack, whatever; it's not any political leader's fault.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 5, 2009)

It is not Islamofascism.  To suggest that it is without any evidence is idiocy.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> *Ladies, ladies, ladies ....
> 
> 
> Please ... if your going douche at each other can you take it to PMs (no pun intended)?*


Would you please stop showing favoritism and admonish Ravi too?


----------



## Ravi (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> *Ladies, ladies, ladies ....
> 
> 
> Please ... if your going douche at each other can you take it to PMs (no pun intended)?*


Funny...but seriously, the flaming started with the right.

But you're the boss.


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.





Can you really be that blind! Liberal really is a mental disease!


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> It is not Islamofascism.


You'll still be saying that even if it's proven beyond any reasonable doubt it was!

Are you ready to man up and admit your own earlier idiocy?


----------



## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Did I say you did?


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> It is not Islamofascism.  To suggest that it is without any evidence is idiocy.



The people around him have already reported he is a Muslim and objected to the war.  He believed Muslims had a right to kill Americans.  He is a typical Muslim and should had been kicked out of the Army.  His orders to deploy sent him over the edge, but don't try to spin it as a normal soldier "losing it".  He had never been deployed to Iraq, his Islamic beliefs would not allow himself to go over there.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?
> 
> Shogun and Dogshit, who you crappin?
> 
> ...




Once again we do not have a clue as to his true motivations for this attack. It could have been that he was freaked about going to Iraq or it could have been his religion, or it could also be a combination of the two. Since he was killed we may never know for certain. Unless the authorities find a letter or something from him.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm surprised it took this long to happen.  Tension on base right now has got to be at an unbelievable level.


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> It is not Islamofascism.  To suggest that it is without any evidence is idiocy.



OK Neville Chamberlain! Just cede the Sudetenland region, because you are afraid of very motivated radicals!


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?
> ...




His own family members have already confirmed he is a Muslim and objected to the war.

What more proof do you need?


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?
> ...



They still have someone in custody ... with luck that person can shed some light on this situation.


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > It is not Islamofascism.
> ...



Of course Jake, because liberals always do this!


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > It is not Islamofascism.
> ...



EARLIER?  That indicates that it isn't consistent.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

MSNBC is hard at it.. Stress! Not unlike this past summer.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?
> 
> Shogun and Dogshit, who you crappin?
> 
> ...




If there was ever a term that screamed "I repeat what I hear if I like it and I don't care if it doesn't make a damn bit of sense even though I'm trying to sound cutting edge" it is islamofascism.  People like you will do this country a favor when your nationalistic ideologies are laid to rest under your coffin.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


It could go any way you want. Either today, in this thread -- or since he was born!


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

A normal person freaking out about being employed could lead a person to go AWOL! For an Islamofacist, it would lead him to killing as many Americans as possible! That is what he did!



SFC Ollie said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?
> ...


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?
> ...


I guess Churchill was using "nationalist ideologies"  when he decided not to back out of the war.  You, on the other hand, would have sat back and allowed Hitler to kill another 100 million people, because after all, he didn't want a war with Britain.


----------



## Fatality (Nov 5, 2009)

had a feeling this person would turn out to be a muhammadan.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

We all have speculation and that is a normal thing to do when we hear of a shocking event because we need to process this in our way to deal with the news.  My opinion as to what happened follows:

This guy was for probably many years on the verg of having a mental breakdown.  He herd from stories upon stories since right after 9-11 and his coping of it all was to show compassion to the Muslims, thus him converting.  Now this guy is hearing the Muslim reasoning and his tiny mind cannot sort it out. What was up to us was Down to him.  He just flipped out.  I wouldn't doubt it a bit if this guy did get someone to help him.  

Again this is my speculation.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...





None of what is said is actual proof. I'll wait for the officials to complete their investigations. 

There are simply to many unknowns and what ifs yet to pass any judgment.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Terry said:


> thus him converting.


Earlier post says he wasn't a recent convert. Brother of shooter was interviewed.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

JakeStarkey said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I dont see anyone condemning irresponsibly, indeed its the dummies that would condemn those who speculate, for as you condemn those who are speculating what happened you close you mind to the different scenarios that may of led to this. When people consider all possibilities its good, that is how you solve a crime.

If this man actually converted to Islam than we must look into what is preached in the Mosque, who did this man associate with if indeed he was practicing Islam

This man should of been court martialed a long time ago if the statements quoted by others were actually made by Major Hussien. I also beleive an investigation must be done to see if anyone tried to charge this Major for the statements he made. If it is found out that this Major the statements attributed to him, if it is found out that charges were brought up but not acted on than we must find out why. We should investigate congress to find out why this man was not court martialed and kicked out for his statements. 

Imagine if congress profiled all muslem officers in the miltary and investigated these men for loyalty and patrioism, 14 people lives could of been saved.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

Fox reporting from a congressman who says another person is in custody.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> A normal person freaking out about being employed could lead a person to go AWOL! For an Islamofacist, it would lead him to killing as many Americans as possible! That is what he did!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



why don't you let the bodies get cold before you start spouting your bullshit, asshole?

the only difference between you and goebbels is goebbels is dead.

fuck off.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...




And the Great Intelligence of the Nationalists spikes again!  That's too fucking stupid to respond to except to ask.....please try again.  Please.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> I'm surprised it took this long to happen.  Tension on base right now has got to be at an unbelievable level.


Stop trying to blame President Obama. Just because of his continuing two wars, stretching our troops really thin and not letting them leave after their enlistment is up, while at the same time cutting the military budget is NO reason for you to put this on him.


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

Moderators should some degree of impartiality, but the trollish Del is incapable of that.


Here is his neg rep comment to me:  "fuck off, asshole!"


Nice neutrality you troll!


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> I guess Churchill was using "nationalist ideologies"  when he decided not to back out of the war.  You, on the other hand, would have sat back and allowed Hitler to kill another 100 million people, because after all, he didn't want a war with Britain.



There's a huge difference between a random shooter who MIGHT be a Muslim fanatic, and a war that it took the US two years to become involved in (what's that about sitting back again?)


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Moderators should some degree of impartiality, but the trollish Del is incapable of that.
> 
> 
> Here is his neg rep comment to me:  "fuck off, asshole!"
> ...



There is nothing in the rules that says he can't neg rep you or call you an arsehole. 
Now banning you for your political beliefs is another thing. Has he done that? No. Quit your whining...


----------



## Fatality (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> A normal person freaking out about being employed could lead a person to go AWOL! For an Islamofacist, it would lead him to killing as many Americans as possible! That is what he did!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



he sure as shit did not go down to iraqi town and start shooting up the place, seems he chose his enemies (American soldiers) then went about the business of killing them.


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess Churchill was using "nationalist ideologies"  when he decided not to back out of the war.  You, on the other hand, would have sat back and allowed Hitler to kill another 100 million people, because after all, he didn't want a war with Britain.
> ...



do you call supporting Britain and Russia with supplies before pearl harbor "sitting back"?  I was responding to his claim about the term "islamofascism".  not this particular affair.  By the way, do you speak Japanese?


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Moderators should some degree of impartiality, but the trollish Del is incapable of that.
> 
> 
> Here is his neg rep comment to me:  "fuck off, asshole!"
> ...



you let me know when i let it effect my moderation, mmkay, hebofascist?

thanks, fuckwit


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




And you also have to know there will be a paper version and there will be another version.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



No I don't speak Japanese, do you?

There's helping out and then there's helping out...


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



You're welcome.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



I hope you're not insinuating that YOU fought in WWII? Are you?


----------



## Fatality (Nov 5, 2009)

this was premeditated murder, he was not just walking around freaking out, he calculated his attack then carried it out.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 5, 2009)

Hmmm....

A muslim goes on a shooting spree and kills innocent soldiers and civilians.

Where have I heard this before?


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...


What part of an interview with the shooters brother, where the shooters brother said this, do you not understand?

Which "version" does that belong in?


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



We were supplying Germany as well, but that's another convo.  You could not have been responding to my comment about the term islamofascism because you don't seem to understand what my post actually said.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



the we don't know if it's true version.

thanks for playing.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


It was live, on TV.


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



I am saying you're welcome on behalf of my nation, to yours.  My grandfather, who fought in the Pacific,  is not alive anymore, or he would have said it.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



oh, it was on live tv, then it must be true.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

DavidS said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> A muslim goes on a shooting spree and kills innocent soldiers and civilians.
> 
> Where have I heard this before?



Maybe it was this guy you were thinking about DavidS.  


"Jewish settler kills 30 at holy site

A Jewish settler has killed up to 30 Palestinians at a mosque in Hebron after opening fire as people gathered for Friday morning prayers. 
US-born doctor Baruch Goldstein, 38, burst into the mosque in the Machpela Cave and fired up to 100 bullets at worshippers, according to state TV reports. 

Eyewitnesses said Goldstein sprayed people with his automatic Galil rifle, an Israeli-made copy of the Soviet AK47. The shooting spree lasted at least 10 minutes, witnesses added. 

The mosque was packed with up to 800 worshippers for prayers in the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan. 

Goldstein, wearing the uniform of an army reservist, was found dead in the mosque after the shooting stopped". 

BBC - Homepage


----------



## Modbert (Nov 5, 2009)

DavidS said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> A muslim goes on a shooting spree and kills innocent soldiers and civilians.
> 
> Where have I heard this before?



And there's one of our resident racists.


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



Are you one of those "the Bush family supported Hitler" clowns?


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




Ollie's time in the military assures me he knows I'm referencing the art of separating the "official" version from what really happened.  In short, there is going to be so much bullshit flying around this thing it is impossible for any of us to know for sure what has been the cause.  Maybe this guy left a Terrorist Love Letter like the Tenn. Church Terrorist in which case we will have a pretty clear picture. Short of that, there's going to be a LOT of bullshit.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


You think they would interview someone claiming to be the shooters brother without vetting him?


----------



## bodecea (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...





Wow!


----------



## Big Black Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Willow
> 
> See Maple and Black Dog's posts to see why it is stupid/dangerous to assume...



I haven't assumed anything.  The MF who shot those soldiers at Ft. Hood was a muslim.  The news just said so.  I wasn't assuming he was muslim when I posted it.  I had already heard it on the news.  If you are a muslim or a muslim sympathizer you can kiss my big old butt just like the rest of the muslims can.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



you think that means he knows and is telling the truth?


----------



## bodecea (Nov 5, 2009)

Big Black Dog said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Willow
> ...



How about that guy who shot the abortion doctor in church...?


----------



## Modbert (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> why don't you let the bodies get cold before you start spouting your bullshit, asshole?
> 
> the only difference between you and goebbels is goebbels is dead.
> 
> fuck off.





Ghook's too busy trying to blame the Muslims to actually care about these dead soldiers.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


It means he claims it. What he said was corroborated by another Military officer who served with the shooter.

At what point do you accept it?


----------



## Annie (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



I heard a cousin talking on FOX, haven't heard a brother. It's weird that family members, presumably in shock are talking to the media.


----------



## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Annie said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...


shock can make one to do things they normally never would. I feel sorry for all the surviving family members.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Annie said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...


Normally one might assume they would be in shock. Shock denotes surprise. They might not have been surprised. Might even be celebrating for all we know. 47 virgins and all....


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

so what has been reported most recently on Fox is that this guy was a muslim, not converted, lifelong, and that he joined the military pre- 9-11. He has become increasingly disgruntled about the war in Iraq and has verbalized his beliefs that it is okay for Muslims to rise up against those who do war against them. So, if true, this was an action based on religion and ideology.


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## del (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



call me crazy, but i like to wait until the investigation is over, rather than go off half cocked based on what his brother's uncle's cousin's dog said.

feel free to do otherwise.


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## lakepot (Nov 5, 2009)

well if they are talking to Faux so soon proves they aren't too fucking bright


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




I understand perfectly. I suppose I do not want this to be anything related to the war on terror. I know that I am not ready to jump to any conclusions yet. There are still too many unknowns to this whole thing. He could have freaked out, He could have decided to be a martyr. I don't know.  I do hope somehow they do find the motive other than a simple disgruntled Muslim. That just leaves too much open.


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## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


I agree. I drew NO conclusions, of you read back. I merely asked curve what part of it did he/she not understand.

But...



> The shooter is being identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan .   He was a 39-year-old unmarried US Army psychiatrist.  The shooter's cousin told FOX News that he was born and raised a Muslim.  The cousin said he was harassed for his Muslim background despite being born and raised in Virginia.   The relative added that he was making a six-figure income but was unhappy with his job and unhappy with his penidng deployment to Iraq.  The Army says he was officially listed as having no religious preference.CNN is reporting that the man is of Jordanian descent.
> The Army says 12 people were killed and 31 wounded.   Hasan is among the dead.  He was shot by Army security.
> Initially, three other soldiers were detained but now officials are saying that they believe Hassan acted alone.


Family of Fort Hood shooter says he was unappy about being transferred to Iraq (live video link)


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## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...



Yes troll we do! Unlike you we can connect the dots!


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## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...


I saw no trolling there. But I do now.


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## del (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



you couldn't find your ass with both hands, a flashlight and GPS, but thanks for chiming in, herr goebbels.


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## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...


 
That would be like confusing MidnightMarauder with MidnightMasturbator.

Similar names.


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## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...


And, you're often confused.


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## DavidS (Nov 5, 2009)

Dogbert said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm....
> ...



I'm not sure how you could call me a racist. I have nothing against the human race.

I do, however; have something against violent, overly religious muslims who view all non-violent, non-overly religious muslims and non-muslims as infadels.


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## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Ladies, ladies, ladies ....
> 
> 
> Please ... if your going douche at each other can you take it to *PMs* (no pun intended)?


 
DUDE!  That was a _FRIGGIN' SWEET_ pun!!!


(And I know you're not Dude.)


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

Big Black Dog said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Willow
> ...



You assumed he did what he did because of his religion....and that makes you a moron...


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## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



What doesn't ASSuming that he wasn't motivated by his religion! I say an !


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## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Moderators should some degree of impartiality, but the trollish Del is incapable of that.
> 
> 
> Here is his neg rep comment to me: "fuck off, asshole!"
> ...


 
Why is he supposed to be neutral?

After all, he is a USMB member.

What the fuck, man???


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## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


well has he said it's ok to kill people who are against Islam?


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



it's going to turn out his assumption was ture. He's no moron.


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## Screaming Eagle (Nov 5, 2009)

DavidS said:


> Dogbert said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



Islam is not a race. This guy could very well not have even been Middle Easter but changed his name to a muslim name like so many do. He could have been black like the guy who attacked the recruiting post, or white, or hispanic, who knows?


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## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Screaming Eagle said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > Dogbert said:
> ...



what was the "shoe-bomber"s real name?  just asking.


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## Screaming Eagle (Nov 5, 2009)

It isn't correct to call this a terrorist attack. The half dozen or more domestic terror attacks we've had in the last few years are more aptly termed muslim attacks. Terrorists have political agendas, the muslim attacks we've experienced have not generally been associated with terrorist organizations or political ideologies, they're just muslims and that's what they do. Islam is a religion of peace. Peace to a muslim is when they have conquered the world and everyone who doesn't agree with them is dead.


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## GHook93 (Nov 5, 2009)

Screaming Eagle said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > Dogbert said:
> ...



And there is a BIG difference between American Muslims and Islamofacists! Many American Muslims (Kalam is a good example) that love this country! Then there are Islamofacists, like the DC Sniper and the Ft.Hood Killer, hate this country and want to hurt Americans because of their beliefs!

Good thing the vast majority of American Muslims are not radicals!


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## del (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Screaming Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



richard reid


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Screaming Eagle said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > Dogbert said:
> ...



News says he was Jordanian.


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Big Black Dog said:
> ...



Anybody who assumes in this situation is a moron IMO...


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## Screaming Eagle (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Screaming Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



Richard Reed, but he also went by some Middle Eastern names.


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## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



well did he make that claim or not?  that it was ok to kill those who "oppose islam"?


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Screaming Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



and born in the united states


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



he won't answer you, it's too painful for him to admit the truth.


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> well did he make that claim or not?  that it was ok to kill those who "oppose islam"?



Don't play semantics with me Elvis...I know exactly what he meant and so do you. Not just from that post, but many others he's made in the past.


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> he won't answer you, it's too painful for him to admit the truth.



Admit what? BBD is a bigotted fucktard? No, that is the truth....


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > he won't answer you, it's too painful for him to admit the truth.
> ...



funny how that works,, you make assumptions about BBD but you cry fowl (feathers) when you think he makes assumptions even though they will prove to be 100% accurate.. funneee how that works..


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## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > well did he make that claim or not?  that it was ok to kill those who "oppose islam"?
> ...



if the killer made that statement, how would it be insane to make a supposition about his motives?


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> funny how that works,, you make assumptions about BBD but you cry fowl (feathers) when you think he makes assumptions even though they will prove to be 100% accurate.. funneee how that works..



I am not making assumptions at all. I have read enough of his posts to form an opinion.

oh really, they have proved 100 percent accurate? Have you read all the witness statements? His military records? Was he a fundie muslim, or did he give it lip service? What was his attitude towards non-muslims? Was there a suicide letter? What were his politics? What was his motivation for the attack.

Answer them one by one Willow. Take your time. Then we'll talk about 'assumptions' again...


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## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

> Anybody who assumes in this situation is a moron IMO...



And who doesnt assume is in a lesser position of debate, seriously, so many folks are telling others what they can and cant do, what they can and cannot think, if we should speculate or not speculate. 

Who the fuck are you people to tell others what should be thinking, my god, what a bunch of scary bigots you folks are. 

So if I assume ten possibilities I am a moron, you on the other hand am not a moron because you are able not to think. 

So those who dont think or cannot think in this case are smart and those who wish to speculate are the morons.

One day when you hear shooting outside you would be a moron to assume you know whats happening so please do not speculate that you may need to take action to save your life or to recognize a similiar circumstance that may happen in your neighborhood.

So all you folks, quit thinking, quit judging, quit speculating, quit profiling, quite assuming, quit using your imagination and sit quitely like good pacifists

Obama will tell you what to think soon enough.


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



Did he make that statement? And if you look back and the original dialogue between BBD and I, what does that have to do with anything anyway? You've gone off on a tangent...


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## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



you said anyone who makes assumptions (meaning theories) about this situation is a moron.  if he said anyone who is against islam is fair game, it doesn't sound too silly to me.


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > funny how that works,, you make assumptions about BBD but you cry fowl (feathers) when you think he makes assumptions even though they will prove to be 100% accurate.. funneee how that works..
> ...



I have already posted what the lastest is being reported. so fundamentally you made assumptions based on what you read and then you turn around and say BBD cannot assume from what's been reported? well that's a clear case of hypocrisy for ya.. again,, guy was a lifelong muslim, joined military pre 9-11 has become increasinly disgruntled with the US in Iraq, and stated so,, (they are now investigating entries he made to blogs) and it has been reported that he verbally said he believed it was okay for muslims to rise up against aggressors. Now what do you think?


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> And who doesnt assume is in a lesser position of debate, seriously, so many folks are telling others what they can and cant do, what they can and cannot think, if we should speculate or not speculate.
> 
> Who the fuck are you people to tell others what should be thinking, my god, what a bunch of scary bigots you folks are.
> 
> ...



Assuming got a Sikh gas station attendant killed after 9-11. Assuming got Iraq invaded. Assuming had the Oklahoma bombing the work of Muslims, too

you wanna assume, go ahead.....but next time you walk down the street and somebody smacks you one because they 'assumed' something, go whine to somebody who will give a shit.

There's assuming and then there's assuming. Seeing some homie gangbangers shooting at each other is one thing, this is a whole different thing.

I'm sure fred Phelps will tell you what to do...


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

BLOGS? Any poster here missing in action? lol


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> if he said anyone who is against islam is fair game, it doesn't sound too silly to me.



As far as I'm aware he didn't. And that wasn't even the point of my original exchange with BBD


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



I say links...that's what I say....


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## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > And who doesnt assume is in a lesser position of debate, seriously, so many folks are telling others what they can and cant do, what they can and cannot think, if we should speculate or not speculate.
> ...




First off, standing 6'2" at 210lbs nobody thinks of smacking me so I hope you dont mind that I ignore you as you walk by. Second you just assumed much about me when you know nothing of me, so if anyone "assuming" is getting people killed its the people like you, as you just demonstrated, you are assuming much about assuming, you need to stop and take ten deep breaths and not let that last breath out, ever, (thats a joke), but seriously, dont you see how everything in the post I am quoting is exactly what you are accusing others of, you have assumed so much in just a few seconds, and further you demonstrate how you made assumptions about every major event of the last ten years.

I see you as a close minded ASSumption making person that is the danger, the danger you see in others is the danger within you.


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



right now it all on the telly!  I'm assuming it will be written later.


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

No one is saying not to think or to speculate. I hate it myself when the news reports the "accused" shooter when there is no doubt the person was the shooter. But what is wrong with waiting until you have the actual and enough of the facts to make a judgment?

Chances are that this mans religion did come into play. Chances are he decided to become a martyr instead of going to Iraq. But those are speculations and may not be right. We will learn the truth or more of the truth soon enough.


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## Coyote (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> The cousin said he was harassed for his Muslim background despite being born and raised in Virginia. The relative added that he was making a six-figure income but was unhappy with his job and unhappy with his penidng deployment to Iraq. The Army says he was officially listed as having no religious preference.



Maybe his religion had little to do with it.  Maybe he was simply a very disturbed person like a lot of these people that go shoot up places.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Just standard evangelical jihad.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > And who doesnt assume is in a lesser position of debate, seriously, so many folks are telling others what they can and cant do, what they can and cannot think, if we should speculate or not speculate.
> ...



Good grief, what a nutbar you are.


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## del (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



how come nobody under 6'2" is ever on the internet?

just wondering...


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> First off, standing 6'2" at 210lbs nobody thinks of smacking me so I hope you dont mind that I ignore you as you walk by. Second you just assumed much about me when you know nothing of me, so if anyone "assuming" is getting people killed its the people like you, as you just demonstrated, you are assuming much about assuming, you need to stop and take ten deep breaths and not let that last breath out, ever, (thats a joke), but seriously, dont you see how everything in the post I am quoting is exactly what you are accusing others of, you have assumed so much in just a few seconds, and further you demonstrate how you made assumptions about every major event of the last ten years.
> 
> I see you as a close minded ASSumption making person that is the danger, the danger you see in others is the danger within you.



I have assumed nothing about you. I was giving you an example of how stupid assuming is...

What did I assume about the past 10 years?

There are assumptions and then there are assumptions, and if you think there are not variations of such, then indeed you are a danger....

You have taken my meanings in their most literal sense without delving into the deeper meaning of what I am saying..that's cool...just the way it is...


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## Annie (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...


I'm under 6'2" about 13" shorter.


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## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Good grief, what a nutbar you are.



Coming from you, I thank your for the compliment...


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

5' 4" 106 lbs lol


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> No one is saying not to think or to speculate. I hate it myself when the news reports the "accused" shooter when there is no doubt the person was the shooter. But what is wrong with waiting until you have the actual and enough of the facts to make a judgment?
> 
> Chances are that this mans religion did come into play. Chances are he decided to become a martyr instead of going to Iraq. But those are speculations and may not be right. We will learn the truth or more of the truth soon enough.



Right now we know very little about the shooter. We do not have people coming forward saying he was some radical islamist. We do have people coming forward that he was pissed at being deployed.

The guy had been in the Army since High School and had never been deployed yet. he also had the Army pay for his doctorate. There is no evidence of Hasan, his family or his associates being radical islamists

Lets let more facts come in before we draw conclusions

Right now, our concern should be with the 30 injured soldiers


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## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> No one is saying not to think or to speculate. I hate it myself when the news reports the "accused" shooter when there is no doubt the person was the shooter. But what is wrong with waiting until you have the actual and enough of the facts to make a judgment?
> 
> Chances are that this mans religion did come into play. Chances are he decided to become a martyr instead of going to Iraq. But those are speculations and may not be right. We will learn the truth or more of the truth soon enough.



I agree with you when you say judgement, the thing I disagree with is that maybe you might think these people are passing judgement when at this early stage people are just being people and bullshitting. This is crazy stuff so people do what people do, we gossip, we fit the story into our ideals and thoughts, we speculate what happened and what could happen, this is investigative thinking, the type of thinking that comes up with an idea of what happened, and you know what, with all the different people speculating on the boards someone is going to speculate to what happened or somone will come up with a point missed by the media and wont that be great if we all recognize points made missed by the media.

Chances are too many people will be bickering and defending when some folk here are actually onto ideas others are not even considering yet. 

I myself would prefer to read this thread minus all the bullshit and be able to see the brilliant posts.

Too many people in this thread are using this as an oppurtunity to label others bigots, people are literally saying they dont want free speech.

So quit your lousy name calling and speculate and assume something that makes a point everyone else may miss, hell I am going to assume and speculate that this man is part of a greater Islamic conspiracy, I may be wrong but somewhere someone is planning the next attack, so I think we should all assume this was just a little attack testing us for a bigger battle to come.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

"Federal law enforcement officials told the AP that Hasan had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats. 

"The officials say the postings appeared to have been made by Hasan, but are still trying to confirm that he was the author. They say an official investigation was not opened. 

"One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades."

Shooter among 12 dead in Fort Hood rampage | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


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## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> No one is saying not to think or to speculate. I hate it myself when the news reports the "accused" shooter when there is no doubt the person was the shooter. But what is wrong with waiting until you have the actual and enough of the facts to make a judgment?
> 
> Chances are that this mans religion did come into play. Chances are he decided to become a martyr instead of going to Iraq. But those are speculations and may not be right. We will learn the truth or more of the truth soon enough.



are you aware that the man's family have shared "truth" with Fox News?


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm a great big 5'5". But still a retired SFC...


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > No one is saying not to think or to speculate. I hate it myself when the news reports the "accused" shooter when there is no doubt the person was the shooter. But what is wrong with waiting until you have the actual and enough of the facts to make a judgment?
> ...




I heard, and we will continue to hear even more. But we will not hear as much as the investigators for a few days.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Note the media spin at the very end of the article. Hasan never was in Iraq..he was a PTSD psychiatrist or counselor himself who had never seen action...

But they managed to find a couple of ditzy broads who loudly proclaimed it was the fault of the armed forces for not giving our war veterans enough counseling.

HEY! This guy WAS  a counselor, who had never seen battle. So how does that fit?

It doesn't. It's simply spin.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > No one is saying not to think or to speculate. I hate it myself when the news reports the "accused" shooter when there is no doubt the person was the shooter. But what is wrong with waiting until you have the actual and enough of the facts to make a judgment?
> ...



Chances are, you are assuming, you are speculating, dont you know assuming gets people killed.

You drew conclusions, most notably drawing the conclusion that drawing conclusions should wait. Hypocrite.


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

he's not dead


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## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

We can ask him  when he recovers  if  it was jihad.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

"To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause," said the Internet posting. "Scholars have paralled (sic) this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers."

AP sources: Authorities had concerns about suspect | Top AP Stories | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


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## Terry (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> We can ask him  when he recovers  if  it was jihad.


It will be hard to break through his mental health training so I'm not expecting any insight to his why's.


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



?


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## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




You are telling us not to draw conclusions, that is the conclusion you came to, hence you drew a conclusion, your conclusion is no more valid than others, its being hypocritical to tell others not to do what you are doing. 

I know you dont realize what you doing that is why I pointed it out. 

Telling others not to post what they think, hell, I have not seen anybody come to a final conclusion, your labeling gossip and speculation "conclusions", based on what, how do you come to this conclusion?


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## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

Indeed, now we hear that this man is alive. This perhaps illustrates the folly of jumping to reckless conclusions, with so many willing to screech about "Islamic" terrorism because they heard an Arab name and believed it to be "Islamic" despite the fact that Islam is a global religion with adherents of various races, ethnicities, and nationalities. It reminds me of the sickeningly irrational views about the "Japs" in the WWII era.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm drawing some pretty interesting conclusions myself.

I believe they're still on lockdown. WHY???

While they were on lockdown, I heard a girl whose baby is on base say that she had just rec'd a text message from a military guy who said he'd gotten in, and had a weapon on him or in his car when he did. AFTER LOCKDOWN.

This is fucking outrageous. And this is exactly what my son bitches about more than anything about the Army. Their base security SUCKS. He told me that months ago. He said there is no monitoring of the servicemen, there aren't adequate patrols, and that's just ludicrous when you're talking about these huge bases.

Equally disturbing is the fact that this guy shot more than 40 people before anyone was able to kill him. NOBODY ON THE BASE HAS A GUN ON THEM???  WTF is that all about?

Anyway, my son isn't there. Thank GOD. He went to Mississippi to prepare for deployment, is going back in a month or so.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Breitbart.tv » Co-Worker: Ft. Hood Suspect Made &#8216;Outlandish&#8217; Comments Condemning US Foreign Policy

"He said, precisely, that maybe the Muslims should stand up and fight against the aggressor."


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## del (Nov 5, 2009)

have some more mad dog, allie


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## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> Indeed, now we hear that this man is alive. This perhaps illustrates the folly of jumping to reckless conclusions, with so many willing to screech about "Islamic" terrorism because they heard an Arab name and believed it to be "Islamic" despite the fact that Islam is a global religion with adherents of various races, ethnicities, and nationalities. It reminds me of the sickeningly irrational views about the "Japs" in the WWII era.



Did you read the information about him? He's been under surveillance for posting about jihad.

But it is all very strange. The fact that they're still waiting for a press conference is weird, too.

You gotta love the ATF, though. They came from Waco to help.

With help like that, who needs enemies????


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

I guess the shooter isn't dead, I thought they said he was? they say he is one of the wounded. This might have already been posted, sorry if it was.


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Saladin said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, now we hear that this man is alive. This perhaps illustrates the folly of jumping to reckless conclusions, with so many willing to screech about "Islamic" terrorism because they heard an Arab name and believed it to be "Islamic" despite the fact that Islam is a global religion with adherents of various races, ethnicities, and nationalities. It reminds me of the sickeningly irrational views about the "Japs" in the WWII era.
> ...


they haven't confirmed it was him who was posting.


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## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Sounds like that security guard that shot him was a female.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> have some more mad dog, allie



You know, I never did drink any.
I tasted it. It tasted like orange cough syrup.

But thanks for asking. I'm maddog-less, and drinkless period. In fact, I'm in the motel lobby. No drinks here.


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## Luissa (Nov 5, 2009)

why are you in a motel allie? hot date?


----------



## Annie (Nov 5, 2009)

Regardless of the state of the perp, a sad day indeed.

Tomorrow though, this may need to be moved to conspiracy forum.


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Equally disturbing is the fact that this guy shot more than 40 people before anyone was able to kill him. NOBODY ON THE BASE HAS A GUN ON THEM???  WTF is that all about?



Military bases aren't Wild West zones, with everyone openly carrying combat arms. Weapons are stored in armories on site, and they would certainly have deployed MP personnel to handle this rather than send standard personnel after him with M-16s, as some apparently believe can happen.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I'm drawing some pretty interesting conclusions myself.
> 
> I believe they're still on lockdown. WHY???
> 
> ...



They are on lockdown because they want 100% accountability of all people on base. You don't know if there were other victims at other sites, you don't know if there are other shooters, you don't know if there are multiple attacks planned. 

Security at Ft Hood is quite tight. They inspect all non-military vehicles for weapons and bombs. Soldiers are allowed access with a vehicle ID and CAC card

Soldiers do not carry guns on base, why should they? They are allowed personal weapons but why would you carry them as you walk around a US base?


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

All indications are that Major Nadawi was a Muslim. I'd been hoping since the incident was first brought to my attention that this wasn't the case, but there seems to be little doubt about it this point. The situation being as it is, I feel obliged to express my contempt toward the attacker as I would regardless of his religious affiliation. Predictably, a faction of people here began fulminating against Islam as soon as the suspect's name was released, but they're an insignificant group in terms of size as well as mental capability compared to those who view this attack as an isolated incident committed by a reprehensible individual with his own personal motivations. Thank you. 

&#1608; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1603;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; &#1608; &#1585;&#1581;&#1605;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1608; &#1576;&#1585;&#1603;&#1575;&#1578;&#1607;
And upon you be peace and God's mercy and blessings.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Screaming Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



You mean an Arab. Jordanians are Arabs.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> All indications are that Major Nadawi was a Muslim. I'd been hoping since the incident was first brought to my attention that this wasn't the case, but there seems to be little doubt about it this point. The situation being as it is, I feel obliged to express my contempt toward the attacker as I would regardless of his religious affiliation. Predictably, a faction of people here began fulminating against Islam as soon as the suspect's name was released, but they're an insignificant group in terms of size as well as mental capability compared to those who view this attack as an isolated incident committed by a reprehensible individual with his own personal motivations. Thank you.
> 
> &#1608; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1603;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; &#1608; &#1585;&#1581;&#1605;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1608; &#1576;&#1585;&#1603;&#1575;&#1578;&#1607;
> And upon you be peace and God's mercy and blessings.



Do you condemn this "person's" actions even if it was in the name of Allah?


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > I'm drawing some pretty interesting conclusions myself.
> ...



Because military bases are targets.
Because they have a huge number of people in a volatile setting.
Because people go bonkers.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

News is that Hasan is still alive


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

DavidS said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Screaming Eagle said:
> ...



he's an american of jordanian descent.

just like you're an american of proctological descent.

see how that works?


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Coyote said:


> > The cousin said he was harassed for his Muslim background despite being born and raised in Virginia. The relative added that he was making a six-figure income but was unhappy with his job and unhappy with his penidng deployment to Iraq. The Army says he was officially listed as having no religious preference.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe his religion had little to do with it.  Maybe he was simply a very disturbed person like a lot of these people that go shoot up places.


You have incorrectly attributed a quote to me. Please correct this error.

Thank you.


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Did you read the information about him? He's been under surveillance for posting about jihad.



I've heard allegations, not confirmations. Regardless, it was when the Alabama trailer park residents heard of an _Arab name_ that they determined that "Islamic" terrorism were involved, despite the presence of a significant number of non-Muslim Arabs and a substantial number of non-Arab Muslims. In what passes for the minds of the rednecks, it's simply a matter of "raghead = bad," which accounts for the assaults on Sikhs after 9/11.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Did you read the information about him? He's been under surveillance for posting about jihad.
> ...



That sounds like bigotry against trailer park residents in Alabama. I know you're much too sensitive a haji to resort to BIGOTRY or HATRED.

PS, if this guy is the one who wrote on those blogs, what you have to say quickly becomes irrelevant, because it means the "Alabama trailer park residents" were right.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Saladin said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...


Interesting slip-up, wasn't it?

Good catch.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

DavidS said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Screaming Eagle said:
> ...



100% of Jordanians are Arabs? Is this true?


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

*CLASSIC!!!*

*Ali Baba and Aladdin arguing about Islam!*




AllieBaba said:


> Saladin said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Saladin said:
> ...



Yes it was wasn't it?


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

DavidS said:


> Do you condemn this "person's" actions even if it was in the name of Allah?



The deity whose name he may have invoked is irrelevant, as Islam does not condone wanton slaughter or the killing of innocents. So yes.


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> That sounds like bigotry against trailer park residents in Alabama. I know you're much too sensitive a haji to resort to BIGOTRY or HATRED.



If that were the case, it would be _regionalist_, wouldn't it? Therefore not markedly different than rightists' comments about the predominance of leftist thought in the coasts and major cities. Since residence in a given region is not an immutable characteristic, where is the basis for comparison to racism?


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Did you read the information about him? He's been under surveillance for posting about jihad.
> ...



You must be pretty disappointed those Alabama trailer park residents were 100$ correct.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

sometimes, libtards, a thing is what it is! you just have to deal with it. This might be one of those Is is. See what I mean?


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > That sounds like bigotry against trailer park residents in Alabama. I know you're much too sensitive a haji to resort to BIGOTRY or HATRED.
> ...



Same thing,  you fucking retard.

And leftoids are predominantly in the big cities, that's not fucking regionalism, or even bigotry, that's the truth.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Saladin said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



you've got a doublewide, huh?


sweet.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

30 minutes ago Maj Hasan was the primary shooter. now that he is alive instead of dead he is the alleged shooter.


I hate fucking PC bull shit.

There is nothing alleged about it.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> You must be pretty disappointed those Alabama trailer park residents were *100$* correct.



 

IIRC, you have a record of being $0.00 correct.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Well he has to be tried, and the news stations don't want to be sued.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> 30 minutes ago Maj Hasan was the primary shooter. now that he is alive instead of dead he is the alleged shooter.
> 
> 
> I hate fucking PC bull shit.
> ...



it's not PC so much as making sure they don't give his defense team a reason to get him off, imo.


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> You must be pretty disappointed those Alabama trailer park residents were 100$ correct.



I'm disappointed that the rhetoric of many supremacist posters matches that found in the Stormfront thread on the topic. 



> Die-versity claims another 12 lives.





> Figures..
> 
> We are supposedly at war with ishlamofashism, according to juan mCcain,
> that, and speshul intrish groups..and a raghead goes off the deep end.
> ...





> This loser really showed his true colors. He is an arab immigrant who joined the Armed Forces, wore the US uniform, swore an oath of loyalty, and then murdered the "kaffirs and infidels". This is not an isolated case. Just a few years ago a negro convert to islam murdered several US soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division in Iraq.





> It was reported that there were two other shooters. I am wondering if they were Muslims also.



It's unfortunate.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> 30 minutes ago Maj Hasan was the primary shooter. now that he is alive instead of dead he is the alleged shooter.
> 
> 
> I hate fucking PC bull shit.
> ...


That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a _suspect_. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > You must be pretty disappointed those Alabama trailer park residents were 100$ correct.
> ...






well why don't you list the allegations you feel are untrue? then we'll all just wait and see who is correct? Now that's fair.


----------



## Sunni Man (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


98% of Jordanians are arabs according to the CIA World Factbook

www.ciaworldfactbook.com


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 5, 2009)

It's still PC to me.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

I got to apology for all white guys, you know we were the ones who were slave owners and we own the oil companys so I am sorry another person just like me did what I am more than likely to do being a white bigot, I got to admit and apologize to all moslems for how we behave, we are just so rotten and when we see how good you guys are we just cannot control our bigoted racistist rage. I admit I have not read all the great Islamic posts  on this site that are written by "superior" aragant "intelligence". Had I read all these posts, hell, I would still be a biased westerner who vehemently clings to his coloring books.

Imagine, me and all the white guys, always naturally the bigots and racists, how is it this human characterestics is only in white men born in the USA.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

"The soldier, identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army mental health professional, was wounded and taken to a nearby hospital. He is in custody.

"Officials had said earlier that the gunman had been killed.

"His death is not imminent," said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood said late this evening. 

"Military officials said that the soldier attacked other troops at the Soldier Readiness Processing Center and the adjacent Howze Theater on the western part of the sprawling Central Texas post.

"Most of those killed were also soldiers, according to the briefing by Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone, post commander.

"Two other soldiers were taken in to custody but later released."

12 killed in Fort Hood shooting rampage | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Same thing,  you fucking retard.
> 
> And leftoids are predominantly in the big cities, that's not fucking regionalism, or even bigotry, that's the truth.



You implied that reference to "Alabama trailer park residents" implied bigotry, despite the fact that it implied regionalism at best and reflected the legitimate prevalence of harshly interventionist and anti-Islamic attitudes in the Southern states. If you desire to claim that this is akin to racism, which is based on discrimination against persons with immutable characteristics rather than those with voluntarily adopted beliefs, you are free to do so, but it is fallacious on its face.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> It's still PC to me.


I suppose you're entitled to reject reality as you see fit.


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> You implied that reference to "Alabama trailer park residents" implied bigotry, despite the fact that it implied regionalism at best


It was "Appeal to stereotype" and as such, a form of bigotry. Not racism. Look it all up.


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> well why don't you list the allegations you feel are untrue? then we'll all just wait and see who is correct? Now that's fair.



I've not claimed that anything is untrue, due to the folly of premature speculation and irrationally jumping to spurious conclusions. Rather, I stated that I was disappointed to see reference to "Islamic terrorism" because this man had an Arab name in an exact replica of the bigotry seen on the white supremacist forum Stormfront.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...




*Sunni Arab*

Any sunni arabs on the usmessageboards.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Same thing,  you fucking retard.
> ...



I never said anything about racism. I said you're a bigot, and pointed out that regionalism and bigotry are the same thing. I'm not even sure "regionalism" is a word, but if you like it better, that's okay.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> I got to apology for all white guys, you know we were the ones who were slave owners and we own the oil companys so I am sorry another person just like me did what I am more than likely to do being a white bigot, I got to admit and apologize to all moslems for how we behave, we are just so rotten and when we see how good you guys are we just cannot control our bigoted racistist rage. I admit I have not read all the great Islamic posts  on this site that are written by "superior" aragant "intelligence". Had I read all these posts, hell, I would still be a biased westerner who vehemently clings to his coloring books.
> 
> Imagine, me and all the white guys, always naturally the bigots and racists, how is it this human characterestics is only in white men born in the USA.



Your implied criticism of my intelligence would be more puissant if you could type a sentence without making an elementary spelling or grammar mistake.


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> "The soldier, identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army mental health professional, was wounded and taken to a nearby hospital. He is in custody.
> 
> "Officials had said earlier that the gunman had been killed.
> 
> "His death is not imminent," said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood said late this evening.


 
Good News!  

I hope that he does not die!

I hope that the docs can fix him all up and rehabilitate him well enough that he can walk down the hall under his own power and climb into the electric chair all by himself...to give the family members of his victims the opportunity to watch him die.


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> It was "Appeal to stereotype" and as such, a form of bigotry. Not racism. Look it all up.



Thank you for your clarification. However, "bigotry" implies a form of particularly intolerant prejudice, and as my comment about a general attitude in the South that is matched by rightists' comments about general attitudes in the coasts and major cities does not constitute that, your comment is not accurate. 



AllieBaba said:


> I never said anything about racism. I said you're a bigot, and pointed out that regionalism and bigotry are the same thing. I'm not even sure "regionalism" is a word, but if you like it better, that's okay.



You implied a corollary with racism by insinuating that there was some equivalence between a comment based on general regional attitudes and rhetoric based on ill-informed prejudice against Arabs, with the former involving a general trend that doesn't constitute an immutable characteristic, and the latter being the opposite. Try again.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > Do you condemn this "person's" actions even if it was in the name of Allah?
> ...


Is the US Army innocent to jihadists?  Or even to Muslims who view our presence in the Middle East and Afghanistan offensive?


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > "The soldier, identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army mental health professional, was wounded and taken to a nearby hospital. He is in custody.
> ...


Pretty sure it would be a firing squad, if prosecuted under the UCMJ. Not sure though.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > well why don't you list the allegations you feel are untrue? then we'll all just wait and see who is correct? Now that's fair.
> ...



so you are going on record saying you know without a doubt that Islamic terrorism" was assumed because of his name only? Is that what you want to say? for sure? Not logical in view of the fact you are not willing to say any of the reason given are untrue.. sheesh!


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > It was "Appeal to stereotype" and as such, a form of bigotry. Not racism. Look it all up.
> ...


Your statement was bigotry.

Work on yourself, figure out the source of your bigotry and stop blame-shifting and rationalizing.

"I'm only a bigot in response to others' bigotry" doesn't fly. It's "Appeal to Mom" and it's never worked, even on Mom.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



The question is irrelevant, as the soldiers who were killed were on American soil and were killed by another soldier. If he killed them merely because they were part of a body that took part in what he saw as unjustified invasions and occupations, logic dictates that he should have killed himself for being guilty of the same perceived "sin."


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Saladin said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



Yup, a Muslim shoots up a bunch of unarmed soldiers, and here they are accusing people of being racist.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...


Not at all irrelevant.  As long as the victims are not "innocent" in the eyes of a Muslim and/or Islam, then killing is okie dokie and even justified, no?


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> so you are going on record saying you know without a doubt that Islamic terrorism" was assumed because of his name only? Is that what you want to say? for sure? Not logical in view of the fact you are not willing to say any of the reason given are untrue.. sheesh!



It's simply a matter of reading this thread and observing the racist bigotry of posters like Maple on display. Much of this rhetoric is an _exact replica_ of the relevant thread on Stormfront. 



Midnight Marauder said:


> Your statement was bigotry.
> 
> Work on yourself, figure out the source of your bigotry and stop blame-shifting and rationalizing.
> 
> "I'm only a bigot in response to others' bigotry" doesn't fly. It's "Appeal to Mom" and it's never worked, even on Mom.



Unsupported assertions don't become sound when they're repeated. 

I referred to a general trend of certain beliefs and sentiments predominant in the South, just as any rightist on here might refer to a general trend of certain beliefs and sentiments predominant in San Francisco, for example. I've not advocated any formal discriminatory policy against Southerners nor expressed any sort of hateful intolerance for any person in the South. Frankly, comparison of such statements to racism is offensive.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > I got to apology for all white guys, you know we were the ones who were slave owners and we own the oil companys so I am sorry another person just like me did what I am more than likely to do being a white bigot, I got to admit and apologize to all moslems for how we behave, we are just so rotten and when we see how good you guys are we just cannot control our bigoted racistist rage. I admit I have not read all the great Islamic posts  on this site that are written by "superior" aragant "intelligence". Had I read all these posts, hell, I would still be a biased westerner who vehemently clings to his coloring books.
> ...



I never implied, its dry wit calling Kalem an idiot, moron


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> > Do you condemn this "person's" actions even if it was in the name of Allah?
> ...


I dont think you will be able to prove that in any convincing manner.
Well  at least in any manner that matters to  non muslims.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/81748-islam-forbids.html

Muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide scripture to proves unequivocally non muslims are innocent


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln1LVIAz-RQ]YouTube - jihad[/ame]


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Saladin said:
> ...





that's a libtard trait, make the criminal the "victim" and blame the real victims.. yup


----------



## Midnight Marauder (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> Unsupported assertions don't become sound when they're repeated.


And yet, you proceeded to repeat yours. My assertion WAS supported, your bigoted statement alone supports it.

You are a bigot. Just man up, admit it and move on.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



That would depend on the severity of any offenses they may have committed. To my knowledge, none of those killed were personally guilty of murdering innocents, rape, or other crimes that involve spreading abhorrent corruption in the land. I do not believe in collective punishment or condemnation; that's a tactic employed all too often by Islam's enemies.


----------



## Immanuel (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm just getting back and maybe this has been mentioned, but according to this article, the killer is still alive.

Army: 12 dead, 31 hurt in attack at Fort Hood - Yahoo! News



> FORT HOOD, Texas &#8211; An Army psychiatrist set to be shipped overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army post Thursday, authorities said, a rampage that killed 12 people and left 31 wounded in the worst mass shooting ever at a military base in the United States.
> 
> *The gunman, first said to have been killed, was wounded but alive and in stable condition under military guard*, said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood. "I would say his death is not imminent," Cone said. Col. Ben Danner said the suspect was shot at least four times.



Edit: just saw Allie's post.  Think I'll go back to sleep now.  

Immie


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



Other than you and the other members of USMB's anti-Islamic cadre, most everybody seems to be satisfied by the explanations that I and others have provided.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > DavidS said:
> ...



He cant prove non muslims are innocent , you don't have to slice in any finer than that.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...


I'm asking this because these sorts of judgments allowed by Islam to justify killing are obviously subjective.  It will be interesting to see what the perp says in that regard.

In general, when laws are so subjective like that, there's a loophole so huge a carrier could go through.  I like solid, objective, secular rules personally.


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...


 
That would work as well.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



I can't force you to take a common sense approach to interpreting the Qur'an if you prefer not to; you're correct.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Everything is subject to interpretation. Familiarity with our own nation's political history will make that clear. Look, for example, at how the judiciary has stretched the meaning of the Constitution to suit its political needs over the years since this country's inception.


----------



## Saladin (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> And yet, you proceeded to repeat yours. My assertion WAS supported, your bigoted statement alone supports it.
> 
> You are a bigot. Just man up, admit it and move on.



Only to the same extent that those who speak of the prevalence of leftist attitudes in the major cities are "bigots." I'm fine with that.


----------



## Mike458877 (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...




"most everybody" ????

Why don't you simply answer the question directly?

(Please provide scripture to proves unequivocally non muslims are innocent)

I too would like to read it, as there always seems to be gray areas, depending on which Muslim is doing the sharing. 

Thanks.

Mike


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...


Close to it, true.  However, degree of subjectivity is an important factor.  Your view of who is innocent is different from another Muslim's.  

I don't like that sort of subjectivity in such life and death matters.  Never have.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...


No one in the media has ever  asked" how does Islam define innocent," why would they question  what they have never considered .For them,
this is a whole new world , a world where you have  already proven to fall short when it comes to reasonable rational  answers.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



_By thy life! They blindly wandered on in their frenzy._


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

It does not matter what scripture states, it does not matter what the Qur'an says. The only thing that matters is what this individual man thought of his beliefs and how he acted on his beliefs. People can quote the Qur'an all day long but this man's interpetation obviously disagrees with said experts that post here.

I have noticed that in all posts, those claiming to know the Qur'an and its meaning have a different understanding and interpetation of the Quran than those Moslems that are committing these crimes.

I concede, I wont attempt to quote the Koran, I wont attempt to cherry pick one of the hundreds of interpetations and pretend to know what it means. What is relevant is there is big difference in what the many different types of moslems beleive. 

The only thing I see anyone proving is they do not understand how others are interpeting the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is so clear yet so many dont get it?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Yeah,  we are just going to save that , Thanks


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Saladin said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > And yet, you proceeded to repeat yours. My assertion WAS supported, your bigoted statement alone supports it.
> ...



You are getting more  unhinged by the hour.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> It does not matter what scripture states, it does not matter what the Qur'an says. The only thing that matters is what this individual man thought of his beliefs and how he acted on his beliefs. People can quote the Qur'an all day long but this man's interpetation obviously disagrees with said experts that post here.
> 
> I have noticed that in all posts, those claiming to know the Qur'an and its meaning have a different understanding and interpetation of the Quran than those Moslems that are committing these crimes.
> 
> ...



Correct.  It doesn't matter at all what the Qu'ran says or doesn't say.  Islam is a religion, it's an ideology.  An ideology that doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general.  Which is exactly why followers of that ideology should stay in Islamic countries.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > It does not matter what scripture states, it does not matter what the Qur'an says. The only thing that matters is what this individual man thought of his beliefs and how he acted on his beliefs. People can quote the Qur'an all day long but this man's interpetation obviously disagrees with said experts that post here.
> ...



how very american of you, asshole.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



Thanks, dick.


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > It does not matter what scripture states, it does not matter what the Qur'an says. The only thing that matters is what this individual man thought of his beliefs and how he acted on his beliefs. People can quote the Qur'an all day long but this man's interpetation obviously disagrees with said experts that post here.
> ...


 
Hindus should stay in India and Buddhist should stay in China, too.  Right?

And Native Americans...let's package them up and ship them the fuck out.  All of this worshiping of nature and shit...it doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general.


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



you're welcome, shithead.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Hindus should stay in India and Buddhist should stay in China, too.  Right?
> 
> And Native Americans...let's package them up and ship them the fuck out.  All of this worshiping of nature and shit...it doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general.



None of those people go around killing people because of their religious beliefs.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mike458877 said:


> "most everybody" ????
> 
> Why don't you simply answer the question directly?
> 
> ...



Well, I've probably spent more time answering that question directly than I have participating in any other thread here.

You could read the discussion between Mr. Fitnah and I that begins on page 11 of that thread and continues to page 78. Alternatively, you could read a short list of Qur'anic passages that I put together in a separate discussion.


----------



## xotoxi (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > Hindus should stay in India and Buddhist should stay in China, too. Right?
> ...


 

Nor do the VAST majority of Islamic people.

You are judging Mohammeds bushel of apples because of the few rotten apples that you see...yet you forget that your own bushel is just as full of rotten apples.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...



Yea you're absolutely right.  We shouldn't judge all Muslims.  In fact, lets just open up our borders even more and let them pour into our country.  We need more "diversity".  This country was built on it right?


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > It does not matter what scripture states, it does not matter what the Qur'an says. The only thing that matters is what this individual man thought of his beliefs and how he acted on his beliefs. People can quote the Qur'an all day long but this man's interpetation obviously disagrees with said experts that post here.
> ...



Yet we are told over and over its us white men that dont understand, I am the bigot, yet I did not kill my daughter with my jeep, I did not fly airplanes into the world trade center, I did not kill these men and women so why am I am target for ridicule? Is it just me or do is Kalem making veiled references to me not being innocent, that I and the USA deserve what we get.

Kalem states these people were not _personally guilty_



> none of those killed were personally guilty of murdering innocents, rape, or other crimes that involve spreading abhorrent corruption in the land.



Why not state they were "not guilty", what relevance is there in this statement in relation to the victims, why go out of your way to state which crimes victims of another crime are not guilty of.

I think Kalem is twisted to even make such crazy statements. A man is murdered and Kalem points out they were not "personally guilty" of rape?

I think this is about the ugliest statement made in this thread, think about that, a man dies, his children are crying, we are told not to speculate yet Kalem arrogantly states this man who has been murdered by a molem was not "_pesonally guilty_".


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



Again, you're the only person here with any knowledge whatsoever of scripture who feels that way. The others who do generally hide behind you and assume that everything you post on the subject is correct.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Laws based on blasphemy and heresy are sooooo two centuries ago.  Not very stylish, either.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



Heh.  If I were you I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure out the "logic" of Muslims.  Their whole religion is written by a pedophile.  The religion has completely turned the once great Arab people upside down.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



I see Sunni's still marry children, I see articles and stories of Sunni's not really getting married but buying ten year old girls for their Harems, I doubt that is the religion as much as it is tradition and culture. But my point is not what it says in the Qur'an and those who claim to know the Qur'an preaching to us, after all we are not the ones who are buying ten year old girls for a Harem, my point is these people like Kalem post here like the greater crime is the discussion of the crimes. It seems Kalem twist things so that we are the bad guys, that is what I find hateful in Kalems post. Kalem's interpetation is different than other Moslem's interpetation and Kalem talks as if we are the ones who need to understand the Qur'an. 

That seems insane to me.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a _suspect_. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.



In journalism you have to say alleged. Dunno what the law is stateside, but down here, if you don't say 'alleged' you are in the hole with a lawsuit if it turns out he wasn't shooter. 'Alleged' covers your arse...


----------



## jillian (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a _suspect_. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.
> ...



Exactly


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...




The line between guilty and innocent in clear one who denies "allahs"  singular right to  be worshiped  is a wrong doers and guilty


Is there an Arabic word for these oppressors ?

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Seems there is little doubt as to the use of the word oppressor in  this verse.
In the Arabic  the  word is *Zâlimûn*
Polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust.

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Apparently  the same arabic word is used to describe oppresors  in 2:193  and  2:254

Quraan Transliteration

*That means disbelief is oppresion*


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a _suspect_. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.
> ...



To not take a side is to take a side, to say nothing in the face of tyranny is to side with a tyrant, the government is using political correctness to control thought and retain power. If you do not see that you should now consider it and investigate. 

Political Correctness is out of control and that takes away from our liberty.

The man is guilty if he is caught red-handed, chances are the reporters have to worry about CAIR and the ACLU.

A trial is a formality, just like the guy in ohio, caught with a dozen bodies and we have to call him innocent. 

Political Correctness is a political weapon, nothing less.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

theHawk said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



Hey that woxi guy is a mind reader ,
 he think  he knows  what muslims think.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Midnight Marauder said:
> ...



Sand ******, ******, rag head, whore, retarded - all these words are not PC. You prefer them? Good on you..

The 'alleged" argument has nothing to do with PC, and everything to do with covering your arse...but you're not in the business, so you wouldn't know....


----------



## del (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...








asshat


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Is it just me or do is Kalem making veiled references to me not being innocent, that I and the USA deserve what we get.
> 
> Kalem states these people were not _personally guilty_
> 
> Why not state they were "not guilty", what relevance is there in this statement in relation to the victims, why go out of your way to state which crimes victims of another crime are not guilty of.


Because death is appropriate for those guilty of the crimes I listed. To my knowledge, as I said, none of the victims were rapists or murderers, so their deaths were not justified. Even if they were, vigilantism is not a proper course of action when due process can be observed. I made the "personally" distinction because some soldiers _are _guilty of rape or purposefully killing innocents and deserve to be tried and executed for their crimes. Take, for example, the American soldiers who gang-raped a 14 year-old Iraqi girl after killing her entire family. They then killed her and burned the house down. As with all scum, Muslim or non-Muslim, trying and executing those individuals would be justifiable.



mdn2000 said:


> I think Kalem is twisted to even make such crazy statements. A man is murdered and Kalem points out they were not "personally guilty" of rape?


I listed capital offenses under Islam to make it clear that the killer's motivation couldn't have been genuinely Islamic.



mdn2000 said:


> I think this is about the ugliest statement made in this thread, think about that, a man dies, his children are crying, we are told not to speculate yet Kalem arrogantly states this man who has been murdered by a molem was not "_pesonally guilty_".


I have no idea how my statement could be considered "arrogant" or "offensive." You, sir, are a loony toon.

edit: Most of my ancestors are European. It may disappoint you to know that I am, by most standards, a white guy. Islam is not endemic to any single race or ethnicity.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...



It does not matter what the vast majority of Islam beleives, what is obvious is the vast majority of Islam does not agree with one another.

Sunni or Shia and all those who beleive have very different ideas. Saudi as a country practice much differently than those Arabs in Israel practice. We keep hearing its not a majority yet the amount of rotten apples is an awfully high number. How about before you folks start telling us its not a majority you start by giving us the number of how many who practice Islam are crazy fanatics.

The figure has to be at least 100 million.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...


Im not aware of  any daylight between any  school of Islamic thought when it comes to the topic of   jihad  and infidelity .


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Your argument might make a lick of sense if the passage two verses after the one you cited did not run thus:

_There is no compulsion in religion -- the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error. So whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in Allah, he indeed lays hold on the firmest handle which shall never break. And Allah is Hearing, Knowing._ - 2:256​


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Im not aware of  any daylight between any  school of Islamic thought when it comes to the topic of   jihad  and infidelity .



If you're serious, than you're much less familiar with Islam than I believed you to be. You read Qutb, correct? Did you miss his polemic against those he calls "defeatists"?


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...




All I see is scripture quoted that millions of moslems disagree with. I see and read of moslems traditions, I see similiarities between the past and the present, I see those who vehemently defend Islam yet the reality is that there are millions of moslems who disagree.

If folks can say its not a majority they should at least be able to say how many.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

del said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



Please link to a post where I have  stated what a Muslims thinks?
I provide what is well known Islamic scripture.
I have never insisted all Muslims follow  this interpretation.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Thanks a typo,


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Im not aware of  any daylight between any  school of Islamic thought when it comes to the topic of   jihad  and infidelity .
> ...



Yeah, go ahead and use Qutb to prove how tolerant and pluralistic Islam is.


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



Not all Muslims believe as Sayyid Qutb did.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> If folks can say its not a majority they should at least be able to say how many.



Seven percent.

_In order to investigate characteristics that distinguish Muslim world residents
who are potentially prone to extremist views, we divided respondents from
the region into two groups. Classified as political radicals were those who met
the following criteria: 1) they felt the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, were
completely justified, and 2) they indicate that they have an unfavorable or
very unfavorable opinion of the United States. Those who did not say the
attacks were completely justified were termed moderates. The radical group
represents about 7% of the total population across the 10 countries included in
the study._​
From:
Gallup Center for Muslim Studies


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Yeah, go ahead and use Qutb to prove how tolerant and pluralistic Islam is.



That's not what I'm doing at all. You said that there was no significant disagreement between Islamic schools of thought concerning jihad. I pointed out that Qutb dedicated a significant portion of _Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq_ to criticizing a school of thought whose opinion of jihad he disliked.


----------



## Maple (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



What a sick and twisted religion Islam is and too think so many buy into it. What gives any person the right to sit in judgement on anyone else and then decide to murder them. What cowards these people are. These always go after unsuspecting, unarmed people and think that their religion justifies what they do, that they can determine who is innocent and who is guilty, then act on it. What arrogance and what horrendous stupidity that comes out of this fraud of a religion.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 5, 2009)

Maple said:


> fraud of a religion.



Aren't they all.....


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## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Maple said:


> What gives any person the right to sit in judgement on anyone else and then decide to murder them.



Virtually every code of law that has ever been written. Ever. 

You may find these articles useful:
Judge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Executioner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

My God... I don't believe you could have phrased that question more hilariously. You are skillfully ignorant.



Clearly, you were unaware that men and women sit and pass judgment on criminals in the US on a daily basis; this judgment occasionally results in the guilty party being sentenced to death.


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> My God... I don't believe you could have phrased that question more hilariously. You are skillfully ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you were unaware that men and women sit and pass judgment on criminals in the US on a daily basis; this judgment occasionally results in the guilty party being sentenced to death.



the reverse is also true.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Maple said:


> that they can determine who is innocent and who is guilty, then act on it.


Once again, you have successfully identified the primary function of every criminal justice system, including our own. Congratulations.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me or do is Kalem making veiled references to me not being innocent, that I and the USA deserve what we get.
> ...



As far as what you say and why you say it is very clear. I pointed out what you stated in your first post, I pointed out that its a terrible statement. If you wish to retract or deny your original meaning feel free. 

Kalem, you have plenty of posts where you draw conclusions on facts you know absolutely nothing of, you also have made plenty of statements to show your bias. You even call books written by great authors "coloring books". 

Kalem, of all that post Kalem knows the least of Islam, Kalem has his nose stuck up the Koran so far Kalem has never bothered to read the unbiased western accounts of Islamic history.

Even in this thread Kalem must demonize the dead, I dont care how you reword things kalem, it was pretty low to state that the victims "were not personally guilty of rape". Those murdered were collectively guilty of many crimes hence they were not innocent hence the Moslem acted in accordance with Islamic religion, law, tradition, and culture, as the murderer beleived. The murderer interpeted the murder of the infidels as in accordance with his beleifs, it just so happened the murderer was Sunni.

Yep, the soldiers were not personally guilty of Iraqi's killed in battle or woman raped by a US soldier, they were not personally guilty of the invasion of Iraq, they were not personally guilty of killing innocent Iraqis with stray bombs or bullets but they are guilty for volunteering to serve in the Army that is guilty of these crimes.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, go ahead and use Qutb to prove how tolerant and pluralistic Islam is.
> ...


Yeah, I doubt he would have cared for you much

Ma'alim fi al-Tariq, also Ma'alim fi'l-tareeq, (Arabic: &#1605;&#1593;&#1575;&#1604;&#1605; &#1601;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1591;&#1585;&#1610;&#1602 or Milestones, first published in 1964, is a short (12 chapters, 160 pages) book by Egyptian Islamist author Sayyid Qutb in which he lays out a plan and makes a call to action to re-create the Muslim world on strictly Qur'anic grounds, casting off what Qutb calls Jahiliyyah, the pre-Islamic ignorance that the world has lapsed into.
Ma'alim fi al-Tariq has been called "one of the most influential works in Arabic of the last half century".[1] It is probably Qutb's most famous and influential work and one of the most influential Islamist tracts written. It is also a manifesto for the ideology of Qutbism. Commentators have both praised Milestones as a ground-breaking, inspirational work by a hero and a martyr,[2] and reviled it as a prime example of unreasoning entitlement, self-pity, paranoia, and hatred that has been a major influence on Islamist terrorism.[3]
English translations of the book are usually entitled simply "Milestones," the book is also sometimes referred to as "Signposts." The title Ma'alim fi al-Tariq translates into English as "Milestones Along the Way", "Signposts on the Road", or different combinations thereof.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > My God... I don't believe you could have phrased that question more hilariously. You are skillfully ignorant.
> ...



I'm sorry; I don't get your meaning. Are you saying that criminals sit and pass judgment on innocents as well? If so, I agree.

Sorry... I'm tired.


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Maple said:
> 
> 
> > What gives any person the right to sit in judgement on anyone else and then decide to murder them.
> ...


All secular, imagine that.


----------



## elvis (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



sometimes guilty are released because of the media.  Think OJ.  and I wasn't very clear.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



Nope.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



Ah, I agree in this case as well. No... looking back, what you said makes sense. I'll take the blame.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Maple said:
> ...



What is/are all secular?


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Kalem, of all that post Kalem knows the least of Islam, Kalem has his nose stuck up the Koran so far Kalem has never bothered to read the unbiased western accounts of Islamic history.


I prefer reading from the source. I find ahadith more useful for understanding early Islamic history than works by orientalists, but that's just me.



mdn2000 said:


> Even in this thread Kalem must demonize the dead, I dont care how you reword things kalem, it was pretty low to state that the victims "were not personally guilty of rape". Those murdered were collectively guilty


Collective guilt is not an Islamic concept. Their choice to serve in the military does not make them criminals because the military per se isn't attempting to wage war against Islam or purposefully kill civilians. You may find this fatwa relevant to our discussion:

Qaradawi et al. fatwa


----------



## Si modo (Nov 5, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...


US Judges.  US juries.  US executioners.   It's those damn secular principles our Founders set forth and The People expect.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 5, 2009)

Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



Not all of them. Come down here for a while and you'll find that some people -- not most, but some -- are very strongly in favor of instituting laws based on Christianity. 

Our government, for most of its history, has been secular in name only. What with laws forbidding the teaching of evolution, laws prohibiting the sale of certain goods on Sundays that persist to this day, laws forbidding homosexual marriage, amendments prohibiting "the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors," etc., it's inaccurate to say that we're all secular.


----------



## garyd (Nov 6, 2009)

Dude that did this shooting is currently still alive. Kalem what is the correct penalty for this dude under sharia Law?


----------



## del (Nov 6, 2009)

garyd said:


> Dude that did this shooting is currently still alive. Kalem what is the correct penalty for this dude under sharia Law?



murder is punishable by death, i believe, under sharia law.

as it is under the uniform code of military justice, and the laws of the state of texas.

is there a problem?


----------



## adeel_sami (Nov 6, 2009)

May their souls rest in peace, amen ..
My condolences are with the victims and their families ..


----------



## Kalam (Nov 6, 2009)

garyd said:


> Dude that did this shooting is currently still alive. Kalem what is the correct penalty for this dude under sharia Law?



For a murderer? Death, assuming that he is not granted clemency by the victims' families. I will obviously defer to the judgment of our court system, however, and hope that they'll make the right choice.


----------



## JW Frogen (Nov 6, 2009)

Guns don't kill people, Allah does.


----------



## eots (Nov 6, 2009)

dangerous times


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Big Black Dog said:
> ...



Distal cause?


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> The main stream media will drum this up as crazy person and not Islamofacism, specifally to appease Muslims in general. The usually suspects (Shogun and Dogshit) will call me a bigot, but can you really say with a straight face that his Islamic beliefs took no part in his motivation to kill American soldiers in cold-blood?
> 
> Shogun and Dogshit, who you crappin?
> 
> ...



I won't call you a bigot - just misguided.  This behaviour isn't uncommon.  Think of other instances where it has happened but not in the circumstances we've seen here.  In this case it's possible that the pressures on the suspect were his religion, his cultural background, his fear of being posted to a war zone, I'm guessing.  But this behaviour, where pressures build up on an individual who snaps and begins to kill, isn't unknown.  Sadly it happens all too often. Google Martin Bryant - Port Arthur Shootings and you'll see what I mean.


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Hasan snapped because he could not get out of deployment.  This was the action of a deranged soldier.  Anyone who confuses this criminal act with terrorism is either an outright idiot or motivated by malignant intent.
> ...



Okay now I'll call you just plain silly.


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > It is not Islamofascism.  To suggest that it is without any evidence is idiocy.
> ...



And sillier.


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> 30 minutes ago Maj Hasan was the primary shooter. now that he is alive instead of dead he is the alleged shooter.
> 
> 
> I hate fucking PC bull shit.
> ...



It's necessary to comply with the presumption of innocence.  Until the jury says "guilty" it's all up in the air.  Sometimes it seems ridiculous but it's necessary in a legal system that relies very heavily on proper procedure.


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

I read the whole thread, tough read.  It was intereesting for me, hours and hours after the thread was created, to read it in one sitting.  So many themes in it, so many varying points.  But unless the mods have been in to carve out the bad bits, it was surprisingly civil, given the terrible events being discussed.  

I hope you understand me when I say I don't think it's necessary for me to express how I feel for the families of the deceased and for the survivors of this terrible event.


----------



## editec (Nov 6, 2009)

Tragic.

12 dead I hear.

Some of them killed perhaps by friendly fire, too.
\


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


The article I read said the family has refused to speak to the press.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like this was one seriously fucked up individual and it had nothing to do with religion.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

13 dead.  One more passed away overnight.

Army post shooting rampage leaves 13 dead, 30 hurt


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## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
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New York Times' Words: *Ft. Hood suspect upset over being harassed about being Muslim*

MeThinks the NYT Feels it might have something to do with his Religion, otherwise those Words wouldn't be on the Front Page Today, would they.



peace...


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## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

Glad to see our government being extremely efficient with pumping a new batch of islamophobia into the sheep farm.  Nothing like stirring up the pot against the new enemy.  This will surely help obushama maintain his sell-out status and hell, he may even win some skeptics over if he find a way to spin this to send more troops across the pond.
CBS News Mobile Radical Ties not Ruled out at Ft. Hood


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## potter 58 (Nov 6, 2009)

does anyone really know? nope


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## theHawk (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > 30 minutes ago Maj Hasan was the primary shooter. now that he is alive instead of dead he is the alleged shooter.
> ...



No its not.  We are not a court of law, we are free citizens and we can come to whatever conclusions we please.


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## theHawk (Nov 6, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Glad to see our government being extremely efficient with pumping a new batch of islamophobia into the sheep farm.  Nothing like stirring up the pot against the new enemy.  This will surely help obushama maintain his sell-out status and hell, he may even win some skeptics over if he find a way to spin this to send more troops across the pond.
> CBS News Mobile Radical Ties not Ruled out at Ft. Hood



Now you are blamming the government for what this shitbag Muslim did?


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## jschuck12001 (Nov 6, 2009)

This isnt the first time a US soldier who was Muslim went crazy and hurt other US soldiers.    Obviously this will be an issue for any Muslim to go over seas and kill other Muslims.  I know its tough to alienate people because of their religion but we may have to look a little closer at US Muslim soldiers as we are asking them to do things that are against their basic beliefs.


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## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

jschuck12001 said:


> This isnt the first time a US soldier who was Muslim went crazy and hurt other US soldiers.    Obviously this will be an issue for any Muslim to go over seas and kill other Muslims.  I know its tough to alienate people because of their religion but we may have to look a little closer at US Muslim soldiers as we are asking them to do things that are against their basic beliefs.



then why let them join? It's all voluntary. They don't want to fight their brothers they simply don't have to join. and this dued wasn't gonna fight anyway. he was a psychiatrist.


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## theHawk (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> The article I read said the family has refused to speak to the press.
> 
> I could be wrong, but it sounds like this was one seriously fucked up individual and it had nothing to do with religion.



There has been interviews with people he worked with.  He made many troubling statements indicating that he had a BIG problem with going to Iraq.  He managed to not get deployed there since 2003.  His religious beliefs had everything to do with his objections, and his actions.  We all know it, but if you want to continue to lie to yourself about it then go ahead and stick your head back in the sand.


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## theHawk (Nov 6, 2009)

There is a new video of him on the same day, dressed in traditional garb.  Yea, he wasn't an extremist....



CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News


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## jschuck12001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Well, I'm not saying that any of it makes sense, people do change over time.  I started out as a young republican and now I am an Independent who voted for Obama but may not vote for him again in the next election.  Maybe this guy changed after he joined.  I'm not sure how long he was enlisted.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
Exhibit 2: He wanted out of the military after 9/11! I think most of us remember the surge in recruitment back then.
Exhibit 3: He attacked US soldiers
Exhibit 4: He was extremely upset with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Exhibit 5: He expressed views that America was the aggressor
Exhibit 6: He wrote blogs praising suicide bombers as true soldiers
Exhibit 7: It was confirmed that as he was shooting American soldiers he yelled "Allah Akbar!"

I think the burden of proof as shifted to the appeasers here!


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
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> > CurveLight said:
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Guess you will have to put down the picture books and read real articles! The COUSIN came out right after attack and went on foxnews!


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## jschuck12001 (Nov 6, 2009)

I watched the video and I knew it, he didnt want to hurt his own kind.   I guess he wasnt as dedicated to America as we thought.  Now I am pissed off, Why didn't one of his superiors pick up on this when everyone else around him did.  Were they afraid to blow the whistle because they would be accused of discrimination?


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

I don't buy this. This Islamofacist devil was a major on a military base! That is a very high rank. There might have been only 5-7 people higher than him! No way in hell that subordinates are going to harass a Major on a military base. And his superiors I guarantee are men of honor and wouldn't have done that either! 

Funny how his cousin tried to display him as a victim. A victim who the US military promoted to the high rank of major and gave a 6 figure income to! 

That asshole as the ballz to call his cousin a GREAT AMERICAN! AMAZING!


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## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
> Exhibit 2: He wanted out of the military after 9/11! I think most of us remember the surge in recruitment back then.
> Exhibit 3: He attacked US soldiers
> Exhibit 4: He was extremely upset with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
> ...


I haven't read anything like that.


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> I don't buy this. *This Islamofacist devil was a major on a military base! That is a very high rank. There might have been only 5-7 people higher than him!* No way in hell that subordinates are going to harass a Major on a military base. And his superiors I guarantee are men of honor and wouldn't have done that either!
> 
> Funny how his cousin tried to display him as a victim. A victim who the US military promoted to the high rank of major and *gave a 6 figure income to!*
> 
> That asshole as the ballz to call his cousin a GREAT AMERICAN! AMAZING!





i'll add the military to the list of things you know nothing about, you hebofascistic debbil. what a complete fuckwit you are.

.


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## Si modo (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> GHook93 said:
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> 
> > Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
> ...


Read it in the NYT. 





> ....
> 
> Disturbing postings
> The Federal Bureau of Investigation had earlier become aware of Internet postings by a man who called himself Nidal Hasan, a law enforcement official said. The postings discussed suicide bombing in a favorable light, but the investigators were not clear whether the writer was Major Hasan.
> ...


NYT: Suspect âmortifiedâ about deployment - The New York Times- msnbc.com

Could be another Malik Hasan...maybe.


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## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> you hebofascistic debbil



You gotta Expand on that Emotion...

What EXACTLY does that Mean, del?... 



peace...


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

jschuck12001 said:


> This isnt the first time a US soldier who was Muslim went crazy and hurt other US soldiers.    Obviously this will be an issue for any Muslim to go over seas and kill other Muslims.  I know its tough to alienate people because of their religion but we may have to look a little closer at US Muslim soldiers as we are asking them to do things that are against their basic beliefs.



NOT FUCKING TRUE! There are many brave American Muslims fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I have mentioned many times about my Shia Iraqi American buddy enlisted in the military even since the invasion of Iraq, he voluntarily has redeployed ever since! He is a hero and a patriot. Although you could characterize him by any stretch of the imagination as religious, but he would call himself a Muslim. He is an example of an American Muslim Patriot! We have MANY like him. They go on the front lines as interpreters! *Side Note: When I told Sunni about my buddy a while back, he called my buddy a traitor to his people!*

*It is very important to distinguish between American Muslims (again Kalam is a good example) and Islamofacists (Sunni Man is a good example)!*


You do realize that they said the same thing about German, Italian and Japanese Americans. The Japanese American got it the worst; however, all three groups PROVED themselves without  a doubt the hold stronger loyalities to AMERICA than to the old country! I think most Arab and Muslim Americans would do that same!


That said you still have to call a spade a spade!


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## theHawk (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't buy this. *This Islamofacist devil was a major on a military base! That is a very high rank. There might have been only 5-7 people higher than him!* No way in hell that subordinates are going to harass a Major on a military base. And his superiors I guarantee are men of honor and wouldn't have done that either!
> ...




Uhh...he is right.  Major is a high rank.  I doubt Lt Colonels and Generals would engage in juvenile antics "making fun" of him.

The one thing I don't understand is why this guy chose to stay in the military.  He was in before 9/11.  He is an officer (no enlistment periods), he has had 5 years or more to "get out".  Unless the military refused to let him go because his career field is "mission critical", and I doubt a mental health worker would be classified as that.


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> del said:
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> 
> > you hebofascistic debbil
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i knew you weren't particularly bright.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

jschuck12001 said:


> Why didn't one of his superiors pick up on this when everyone else around him did.  Were they afraid to blow the whistle because they would be accused of discrimination?



Ding ding ding ding ding, we have a winner!


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## jschuck12001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Maybe one of the military folks on the site can explain how a military psychologist could take out 43 people with a handgun.  That seems like something straight out of a Rambo movie so does a trained military psychologist have the skills to do something like that as a norm?


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> tha malcontent said:
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LOL pot calling the kettle black!


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> del said:
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yeah, O-4 is a super high rank, there couldn't have been more than 4 or 5 people at ft hood that outranked him. 

he went through school on the army's dime and had a commitment to serve x number of years. the army wouldn't let him out. he hired a lwayer to try to get out, but no dice.


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## jschuck12001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Everyone talks about his rank but from what I heard last night is that Doctors enter the military as an automatic Captain so really he was only promoted 1 time.  It seems like its alot easier to get to Major when you start one rank below that.  Is this correct?


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## jschuck12001 (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> jschuck12001 said:
> 
> 
> > This isnt the first time a US soldier who was Muslim went crazy and hurt other US soldiers.    Obviously this will be an issue for any Muslim to go over seas and kill other Muslims.  I know its tough to alienate people because of their religion but we may have to look a little closer at US Muslim soldiers as we are asking them to do things that are against their basic beliefs.
> ...



Whats not true?  I can clearly remember when we first attacked Afghanistan after 9/11 that a Muslim US Soldier freaked out and shot a few of his fellow soldiers.  I think he even killed one guy.  I'm not saying all of them will commit these crimes but their track record is getting worse and worse and frankly its not worth taking anymore chances with these people.  Sorry!


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> del said:
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Hey shit for brains! List to the radio on the way in! They had a whole bunch of military personal! Every single one of them stated he was a high rank for the military base and that there might have been 5-7 superiors to him!


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> theHawk said:
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you are fucking delusional. 


or you're just too stupid to differentiate between his unit and an entire base.

tough call, but i'm going with stupid due to the preponderance of evidence.

tell me more about his six figure income- i need a good chuckle.


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## strollingbones (Nov 6, 2009)

GoArmy.com &#62; About the Army &#62; Ranks & Insignia

you have to wonder how he got to major and had all these issues


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> GoArmy.com > About the Army > Ranks & Insignia
> 
> you have to wonder how he got to major and had all these issues



i think you come out of med school at O-3.


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## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

jschuck12001 said:


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I remember one throwing a grenade into a tent.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> del said:
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Oh poor little Islamofacists baby!
Here is a line that will hit close to home for you, "Do you suck dicks fagget""
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7oKQECBjs]YouTube - Full Metal Jacket Bootcamp Part 1[/ame]


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

jschuck12001 said:


> GHook93 said:
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Might be true, but I am going off my personal experience! The bravest person I know (a person that would put a fat lazt hippie like Del to shame) is an Iraqi American Shia Muslim!

There are many like him in our military!


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> theHawk said:
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spent a lot of time in the military, did you?


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> strollingbones said:
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> > GoArmy.com > About the Army > Ranks & Insignia
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Not don't you feel stupid!


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> del said:
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no, but you would if you had even a clue.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> GHook93 said:
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First you say a Major isn't a high rank, then you said he had to go up the ranks. Both were proven wrong. So yes you are wrong you worthless monkey!


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> del said:
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i'm sorry you're so stupid, but it's really not my problem. 

shalom


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## Immanuel (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > The article I read said the family has refused to speak to the press.
> ...





GHook93 said:


> Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
> Exhibit 2: He wanted out of the military after 9/11! I think most of us remember the surge in recruitment back then.
> Exhibit 3: He attacked US soldiers
> Exhibit 4: He was extremely upset with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
> ...



I think it is way too early to be taking things said by acquaintances to be the gospel truth here.  Too much gets speculated upon.  Just like the early reports that he was dead.

Although, I suspect it will come out that much of this is true, it is just a little early too be gobbling it all up as proof of who he was.

One thing is for sure... he is a dead man.  Dead man walking.

Immie


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## theHawk (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> theHawk said:
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> > del said:
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I know there'd be alot more than 4 or 5 people that outranked him.  The point is Colonels and Generals aren't going to "pick" on him.  Unless that is what you are argueing.

Didn't know the Army paid his school, that explains why he had to stay in.


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## del (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> del said:
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i'm not arguing anything really. 

from what i've read he was picked on after 9/11 nd has been trying to get out of the army for quite awhile. 

personally, i think this was a variation of suicide by cop by someone who's a muslim.


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## theHawk (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


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Are you a fucking idiot?  I was agreeing with you that this premise he was "picked on" by superiors sounds like a load of bullshit.

A Major is a high rank.  I don't know and I don't really care how many people outranked him at his unit or base.  I highly doubt any LtCol, Colonel, or General would "make fun" of him being Muslim.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

> NYT: Suspect âmortifiedâ about deployment - The New York Times- msnbc.com
> 
> Internet postings by a man who called himself Nidal Hasan, a law enforcement official said. The postings discussed suicide bombing in a favorable light, but the investigators were not clear whether the writer was Major Hasan.
> 
> ...




msnbc.com Video Player
Listen to the General:
"He yelled Allahu Akbar, as he shot soldiers!"
"He had just received poor performance evaluations, and consistently argued with other officers about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq!"


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## AllieBaba (Nov 6, 2009)

I love listening to people who say there's no connection between Muslim zealots and violence. Some talking head on Fox this morning said exactly that. I turned the channel.


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## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> del said:
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Not necessarily true.    And if they did, it gives carte blanc for others to do the same.

I remember Tailhook '91 where the senior officers there ridiculed the female officers attending and that  was understood as giving 'permission' for what happened later on.


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## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if Islam is involved...
> ...



You were Wrong A15... Is Appears that it was only (1) Muslim Terrorist. 



peace...


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## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

WOT supporters are going to celebrate this mass murder because in their minds it vindicates their bigotry towards Muslims, will give them fuel to justify our Imperialism, and it reminds them they should feel normal about living in constant fear of terrorism.

Let's quickly compare two terrorist attacks by two Americans.

Hasan: speculation says this was a politically motivated attack in response to our actions in other nations.

Adkisson: written confession stated his motive was to kill as many liberals as possible.  Police stated they found books by Hannity, Savage, and Coulter in his home the day of the attack.  

In one case we have distorted and unclear information yet the immediate reaction is to blame Islam.

In the other case we have unmitigated facts with both written and verbal confessions by the terrorist.  Yet how many pointed to Hannity etc as fuel motivation for Adkisson's attack?  How much time did the msm spend covering the story compared to this attack?  How many people said the anti-liberal movement in our country played a role in the murder of those civilians?  There is one striking difference:  Hasan attacked the military.  Adkisson attacked civilians.


Is it a terrorist attack to kill soldiers on a military base during war?


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## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

At 2:30 MST Yesterday:



Mr.Fitnah said:


> No terrorist connection according to the FBI.



^I Heard the Same, but can't Find a Link.

_"We don't know all the answers yet. And I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts," Obama said in a Rose Garden statement otherwise devoted to the economy." _

Obama: Donât jump to conclusions on rampage - Tragedy at Fort Hood- msnbc.com

You Mean like YOUR Federal Agency did Yesterday when they Asserted that it wasn't Terror Related almost Immediately, Barry?...

Gotcha.



peace...


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> WOT supporters are going to celebrate this mass murder because in their minds it vindicates their bigotry towards Muslims, will give them fuel to justify our Imperialism, and it reminds them they should feel normal about living in constant fear of terrorism.
> 
> Let's quickly compare two terrorist attacks by two Americans.
> 
> ...



In my humble opinion both were mentally unhinged and each latched upon the extreme of their paradigm to justify their actions.  Blaming who or what they used for justification is irresponsible at best, agenda driven at worst.


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## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> WOT supporters are going to celebrate this mass murder because in their minds it vindicates their bigotry towards Muslims, will give them fuel to justify our Imperialism, and it reminds them they should feel normal about living in constant fear of terrorism.
> 
> Let's quickly compare two terrorist attacks by two Americans.
> 
> ...


If we follow mal's "logic" we have to believe that mal is partially responsible for the church killings simply because he is a shill for the far right loon's agenda.


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> I don't buy this. This Islamofacist devil was a major on a military base! That is a very high rank. There might have been only 5-7 people higher than him! No way in hell that subordinates are going to harass a Major on a military base. And his superiors I guarantee are men of honor and wouldn't have done that either!
> 
> Funny how his cousin tried to display him as a victim. A victim who the US military promoted to the high rank of major and gave a 6 figure income to!
> 
> That asshole as the ballz to call his cousin a GREAT AMERICAN! AMAZING!



You're a moron.


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
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Major is not a high rank and if you are either active duty or prior service, you know it and you are lying.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't buy this. This Islamofacist devil was a major on a military base! That is a very high rank. There might have been only 5-7 people higher than him! No way in hell that subordinates are going to harass a Major on a military base. And his superiors I guarantee are men of honor and wouldn't have done that either!
> ...



I agree this asshole shooter isn't a victim at all, he is the perpetrator of an atrocious crime against his fellow soldiers.

I've never served in the military so I can't comment on the harassment stuff.


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Article 15 said:
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> > GHook93 said:
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He's about as far from victim status as it gets.


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

Saying Major is a high rank is like saying Sgt is a high enlisted rank ...


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 6, 2009)

over half of this thread  

On a side note, Article is a veteran so his words in things related with the military carry more weight with me than other people's opinions.

No offence meant to anyone.


Oh and anyone saying we shouldn't let muslims into the military because they are muslim.....you need to go re-read our founding documents and re-visit the founding principles of this country.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> theHawk said:
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Um moron! Listen to any of the reports on the radio or TV they are saying he only had 5-7 superiors on the whole base! For that base, YES he was a high rank!


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Article 15 said:
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Again, you are a moron, and you are either getting your information from your fellow morons or you are not hearing it correctly.


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

He may have had 5-7 superiors in his DIRECT CHAIN OF COMMAND not 5-7 superiors on the ENTIRE BASE.

Again, you're a moron.


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## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

He was an 04 the middle of the road of rank for Officers.


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> He was an 04 the middle of the road of rank for Officers.



And barely at that ... it's the first rank they don't automatically attain ...


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## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> theHawk said:
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Major is just the beginning of the military middle management.


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## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Article 15 said:
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Fort Hood is a very large base...to say that a Major has only 5-7 people senior to him is ludicrous.   Absolutely ludicrous.   Your credibility on this matter is in shreds on the floor.


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## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > He was an 04 the middle of the road of rank for Officers.
> ...



That's all Fine and Good... Who was "Harassing" him?...

The Claim is Made by "kin", the NYT Runs with it as a Headline as if it's an Excuse, but is there ANY Evidence of it Aside from that?



peace...


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## rightwinger (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Article 15 said:
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Are you shitting me??

The CG at Ft Hood is a Lt General, thats three stars.
There are probably ten or more GENERALS at Ft Hood


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Article 15 said:
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Beats me.  I wasn't there.


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## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Terry said:
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> > He was an 04 the middle of the road of rank for Officers.
> ...


I know AF you have to have Major on for 2 years before they can go for Lt. Col.  Not sure about Army but still most Major's are commanders of units, but on Ft Hood he probably was like the Assistant to the unit commander.  That is my guess.  Either way though this Major knew better in so many ways.  He has no excuse.  One that doesn't know military would expect this from an Enlisted E-4 but for a Major it is basically a rarity.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

bodecea said:


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I am only going off what I heard on the radio from military-men! So go shoot down their creditability


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## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


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And now you slide blame to a radio report you supposedly heard.   Classic!


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## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
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Neither was the New York Times NOR the Family they Headlined that Excuse with...

Curious that they Felt it is Justified to Hearsay Above the Fold within 24 Hours of this Attack, ain't it?....



peace...


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## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> Article 15 said:
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In the AF most squadron commanders are Major's and they tend to attain the rank of Lt. Colonel while holding that position.

But it bears noting that has a mental health counselor this man wasn't running any units.


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## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

Ringel05 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > WOT supporters are going to celebrate this mass murder because in their minds it vindicates their bigotry towards Muslims, will give them fuel to justify our Imperialism, and it reminds them they should feel normal about living in constant fear of terrorism.
> ...



I'm merely exploiting the tragedy to point out the unbelievable hypocrisy and alien reactions to two similar situations.  It is silly to try and sweep either one with political commentary but if I were a public defender and forced to choose which case I would choose this one any day of the week.


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## GHook93 (Nov 6, 2009)

bodecea said:


> GHook93 said:
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I just don't buy that he was harassed because he was a Muslim! Its an attempt to justify the killings and slander the military!


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## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

To be Perfectly Fair... ^He was a Major and was Picked on by his Inferiors.



peace...


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)

That pay is as much as a enlisted  CMSGT (E-9) with over 15 years if not 20 years.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



I don't know if this has any bearing on anything regarding rank, but the man is an MD (as in Medical Doctor).


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



The interviewed the family and reported what they said, Mal ....


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 6, 2009)

WOW I'm SOOOOOOOOO glad i'm not a moderator today.


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> I just don't buy that he was harassed because he was a Muslim! Its an attempt to justify the killings and slander the military!



And in that, I would Expect MORE People to be Defending the Victims of this Shooting from those Absurd Claims, as Opposed to Appearing to Run Static for Major Allahu Akbar who Yesterday Gunned them Down.



peace...


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> To be Perfectly Fair... ^He was a Major and was Picked on by his Inferiors.
> 
> 
> 
> peace...



But....did he dress like a girl so he could get out of his deployment?  

Maybe that's where he went wrong?


----------



## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> 
> That pay is as much as a enlisted  CMSGT (E-9) with over 15 years if not 20 years.



Yep...we get paid more...lots more.


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



I am Perfectly Aware of what they did, A15...

They Focused their Angle on it Potentially being a Product of Harassment because of Islam, as Opposed to the Perfectly Justifiable Angle that Major Allahu Akbar did BECAUSE of Islam...

And I Assure you the NYT New BOTH things when they Inked that Headline



peace...


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 6, 2009)

My understanding is that he was a Major who was promoted from Captain last August.

Regardless, Officers should not receive any large scale harassment because of their religion. No doubt he did receive ribbing and snide comments but no where near what he would have received if he were a low level enlisted.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 6, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> over half of this thread
> 
> On a side note, Article is a veteran so his words in things related with the military carry more weight with me than other people's opinions.
> 
> ...



yes muslims should consult  scripture and those with knowledge before joining the service.

Islam Question and Answer - Working in the army of a country in which there are munkaraat (haraam deeds)

Firstly: it is haraam to shave the beard; it is obligatory (waajib) to leave it to grow.

 Secondly: it is not permissible to salute the flag.

 Thirdly: it is obligatory (waajib) to govern by the shareeah of Islam, and to refer to it for judgement. It is not permissible for a Muslim to greet colleagues or superiors with the greeting of the foreigners, because of the reports which state that it is forbidden to imitate them and because this represents exaggerated respect for them.

 Fourthly: Whoever fights to make the word of Allaah supreme and to protect the Muslims and their lands from the enemy, is fighting for the sake of Allaah, and if he is killed he is a shaheed (martyr). What counts is the aim and intention. You can have an intention which is different from the intention of the army, such as intending to make the word of Allaah supreme in your jihaad (so long as it is permissible, according to shareeah, to fight the group against whom you are fighting), even if others have different intentions, such as fighting for their country.

snip

Shaykh: This is not permissible unless the nation in whose army he is working is not fighting the Muslims.

- And not driving them out of their homes or helping others to do so?

Shaykh: Yes.

And Allaah knows best.

*snip*

We want to emphasize to you the necessity of finding other employment and of leaving service in the army of the kaafirs, because that implies helping them, strengthening them and increasing the numbers of their fighters and supporters 

 unless your work can bring some benefits to the Muslims, such as giving information and secrets of the kaafirs to the Muslims so as to help the Muslims


, or if your work is purely dawah, such as giving khutbahs and leading prayers for the Muslims in the kaafir army whilst also advising them to avoid any work that will strengthen the kaafirs. We ask Allaah to keep you safe from temptation and to give you a good end in this world and in the Hereafter.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

bodecea said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> ...



Whatever happened to "don't ask, don't tell"?

You're not supposed to discuss pay/grade publicly!  Very poor form!


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

I posted the pay grade to give NON Military people a better understanding of where they compare in the chain of command. That is the only reason for posting that. *rolls eyes*


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> My understanding is that he was a Major who was promoted from Captain last August.
> 
> Regardless, Officers should not receive any large scale harassment because of their religion. No doubt he did receive ribbing and snide comments but no where near what he would have received if he were a low level enlisted.



There is Certainly Doubt...

What is your Evidence that ANY Harassment Happened?...

His Family?...



peace...


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 6, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > over half of this thread
> ...



In summary you are saying any good muslim who strictly follows the Koran would never join the armed services of the USA?

Give me some leeway i'm not a muslim and this is an honest question.


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

If this Major was harassed it had to come from 04's and up because if it was a lower rank the major could have written him up, disciplined them.  Until the Army comes out with this I'll not believe this to have happened.


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...




Wrong, he is a Doctor, it's not the same thing as an Infantry or Engineer or Signal Corps Major. A Doctor who is a Major is not very high up there at all. Most Doctors are first Commissioned as at least a Captain and almost all Specialist Doctors are LT Colonels or Colonels. A Major who is a Specialist in a field is more like a Buck Sergeant. Barely getting started.


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...


I know the Air Force not the Army.  Army way of things is so different then the AF.  I've been to Military Army Hospitals and I did have a Major who assisted in my surgery. That was what I was drawing upon along with AF ways of life.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> 
> That pay is as much as a enlisted  CMSGT (E-9) with over 15 years if not 20 years.




But what is his Bonus as a Doctor?


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> ...


I have no idea, do they get yearly bonus or re-enlistment bonus? AF, critical career fields will get a re-enlistment bonus and fly boys get flight pay.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

Who gives a fuck what his pay was?


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Who gives a fuck what his pay was?


Obvious you don't.


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Who gives a fuck what his pay was?



Not me.


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Who gives a fuck what his pay was?



I am in 100% Agreement with you... Absurd Discussion, this is.



peace...


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> I posted the pay grade to give NON Military people a better understanding of where they compare in the chain of command. That is the only reason for posting that. *rolls eyes*



Hey....I wasn't taking a shot at you with my "don't ask/don't tell" comment.  Just trying to get in the Friday kind of mood. 

Sorry if I stepped on your toes.  I damned sure didn't mean to.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > My understanding is that he was a Major who was promoted from Captain last August.
> ...





I seem to remember hearing an interview with a former co worker of his who said he had heard about some talk of harassment but when he checked it out it had been the Major that had initiated the conversations.
I could have misunderstood.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...




Your crowd is so unhinged you would find it reasonable to label obama as an islamic extremist supporter because his motorcade drove past a street in DC that has two of the same letters found in the name of a mosque in an Alaskan igloo occupied by a pair of dirty socks and a 7-11 napkin.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...





I was under the belief that Doctors got a regular professional pay each month. The amount probably depends upon their Specialty, Rank, and contract. Again I could be wrong.


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

I feel sorry for the Lead Force Protection guy at Ft Hood! That is a tough job


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 6, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




I heard something similar. That he had been at Walter Reed for 6 years and was transfered to Ft Hood as a disciplinary action for his pushing his religion on other soldiers.


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



How Upset do you Think American Christian Hating Liberals would have been if this Shooter was Handing out Bibles before he did this?...

Was a Cracker from Texas Proper?...

Was Calling them ALL Sinners as he Gunned them Down?...

MeThinks they would be Blamming the 700 Club, that's what.

Blamming the Hate that is Inherent in Christianity...

Yet when Islam Preaches this, and it's Followers Act, it's somehow about how Major Allah is Great was Harassed...



peace...


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



They wouldn't be blaming the 700 Club....they'd be bringing Tammy Faye Baker back from the dead to publicly flog for her part in the transgression!


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > I posted the pay grade to give NON Military people a better understanding of where they compare in the chain of command. That is the only reason for posting that. *rolls eyes*
> ...


Noted and took it as you were not.  I'm sorry but I used your comment to bounce off to let all know just why I posted the pay grade info.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



I read he was disciplined at Walter Reed and got an unsatisfactory evaluation, then transferred to Hood, but no reason was given.

Do you have a link or a source for the reason he was disciplined?  

Thanks.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



Tammy Faye did not look that good when she was alive....I don't want to even think about what she looks like now


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Who gives a fuck what his pay was?
> ...



Mal, you brought up his rank in your NYT thread ...


----------



## Immanuel (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Who gives a fuck what his pay was?



I guarantee that all future pay was forfeited yesterday afternoon.

Immie


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Who gives a fuck what his pay was?




Since his pay was tax dollars maybe some genius economist in obama's crew can use it to help sell the public option.  It's a bonus the money was going into the Federal healthcare system already!


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Who gives a fuck what his pay was?
> ...


Saved Job?

Sorry couldn't resist that one.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...


 I'm waiting for him to start a big conspiracy theory about the guy in Orlando.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

Immanuel said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Who gives a fuck what his pay was?
> ...



Ya think?


----------



## Luissa (Nov 6, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Who gives a fuck what his pay was?
> ...



you are an idiot!


----------



## Immanuel (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Actually, now that I think about it and knowing how our government works, they will probably continue to pay him throughout the trial and most likely up until the moment he faces the firing squad.  

Immie


----------



## del (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> 
> That pay is as much as a enlisted  CMSGT (E-9) with over 15 years if not 20 years.



all things considered, i'd much rather be an E-9.


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> ...


They do garner much more respect I have to admit because their integrity and been tried and true by the time they make E-9.  Not all but the majority of them. 

I know, my husband is a retired E-9


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Thats some good humor in an otherwise humorless thread.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 6, 2009)

jUST HEARD  HE  CARRIED THE SAME FIRE ARM i CARRY , iT came  with 3 20 round mags exapandable to 30

FN FIVE-SEVEN


----------



## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...



Wow....you really don't know much about anything, do  you?


----------



## del (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...









give it up, asshat.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

Immanuel said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > Immanuel said:
> ...



Yep.  

Until he's been convicted, his paycheck's going noplace but in the bank (his account), baby.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> If this Major was harassed it had to come from 04's and up because if it was a lower rank the major could have written him up, disciplined them.  Until the Army comes out with this I'll not believe this to have happened.



Not necessarily ...

There's a good chance it came from some 0-3's as well (especially if rightwinger is correct and was recently promoted).  Surrounding ranks tend to be less formal with each other.

When I was an A1C I had no problem ribbing Staffs, Techs, and LTs I worked with albeit in a joking manner.  Outside of uniform I was on a first name basis with pretty much every one I worked directly with.

Funny story: When I was in Iraq in 2004 and the Red Sox won the WS my commander was a Yankee fan Lt. Colonel.  After every Yankee win he made sure to pop in and see me to give me shit.  After the Sox made that miraculous comeback he referred to me (the big bad Senior Airman) as "his Daddy" in front of everybody for the rest of the deployment.

But yes, I agree with you that until something official comes down I'm taking everything with a big ole grain of salt.


----------



## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> ...



E-9s pretty much walk on water.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Nov 6, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...


My opinion on this issue is not required.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

del said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > A major's (04) month pay is 6,025.20 (with Ten years in) to   6,325.50 (over ten years)
> ...



Being Chief must rule.


----------



## Immanuel (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > JenyEliza said:
> ...



And that is probably the way things should be.  After all, he is presumed innocent.

Immie


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > If this Major was harassed it had to come from 04's and up because if it was a lower rank the major could have written him up, disciplined them.  Until the Army comes out with this I'll not believe this to have happened.
> ...


This is a whole new topic so I won't go there.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

Luissa said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...




Various forms of sarcastic humor help me tread.  Not everyone can appreciate it but not everyone needs to either.  As for me being an idiot......that is well known.  So what?


----------



## del (Nov 6, 2009)

bodecea said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...



only if they don't mind getting the soles of their shoes wet, otherwise they walk wherever they damn well please in my experience.


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

A good E-9 never uses his rank for anything!


----------



## del (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...



totally.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

Hardest man I ever met was an Army Sergeant Major ....


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Rank is Relevant to Possible Harrassment...

Pay and this Extended Debate about it is... Irrelevant.



peace...


----------



## bodecea (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > JenyEliza said:
> ...




Strike two.   No money goes into this guy's acct.   

You should quite while you're behind.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



You are being enlightened ... soak up the knowledge.


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



You still don't get that I was Mocking Conspiracy Theorists with that Thread, do you... 

del Posted a Pic for you.



peace...


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



No I'm not...  And it's a Subject that would be a Good Thread of it's Own, but instead it's here.



peace...


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...


That's not what I meant. You need to go over there and obsess about the guy's religious beliefs and show as much joy over the killings he committed as you are showing about the Ft. Hood deaths.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



Earlier today you were typing Major in all caps as if that rank were a big deal.  Now you know it's not.

Large threads tend to stray off topic and then refocus as they progress.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> Hardest man I ever met was an Army Sergeant Major ....




One of the funniest ¤time halting¤ moments I ever witnessed was during an FTX when a butterball tried to say "At Ease" to our CSM.  I'm pretty sure laughter can still be heard echoing in that region of White Sands.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...




Mal has *always* had issues with Capitalization and improper vowel usage.

For Instance He Types Everything Like This.

And He Types Drink like this Drynk.

It's No Big Damm Deal.


----------



## Liability (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



His apparently random use of Capitalization is not quite random, and it is not so uniform as to be almost every word.

He tried to "explain" it one time.  It had something to do with Benjamin Franklin.

Damned if I knew what the fork he was trying to say.

He spells "drynk" correctly, of course.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Just a question.


*Has anybody at all explained why the information yesterday was that the shooter was dead until late into the evening the information suddenly switched to he is alive?*


Most perplexing.


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Just a question.
> 
> 
> *Has anybody at all explained why the information yesterday was that the shooter was dead until late into the evening the information suddenly switched to he is alive?*
> ...


No but I can speculate as to why.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Just a question.
> 
> 
> *Has anybody at all explained why the information yesterday was that the shooter was dead until late into the evening the information suddenly switched to he is alive?*
> ...



I'm baffled by it, too, though I don't think the Army changed the story.  From what I recall Lt. General Cone said that the shooter was "neutralized" but never said he was killed.  I _think_ it was the media getting it wrong.


----------



## Liability (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Just a question.
> ...



I can speculate, too.

I wonder if our respective speculations are along the same vein?


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

Liability said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


 Mine involves the FBI


----------



## Liability (Nov 6, 2009)

Terry said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > Terry said:
> ...



E-yup.  Mine too.

And it's related to why the FIBBIES announced (even before the situation had been resolved) that there was supposedly "no evidence" of a terrorist connection.


----------



## Terry (Nov 6, 2009)

Liability said:


> Terry said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...


Exactamundo


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Just a question.
> ...


I think that's it. "Neutralized" has come to mean "killed" and it seems either the journalists were being sloppy in this case or the spokespeople at Ft. Hood were.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Just a question.
> ...



but didn't they also say the police officer who "killed" him was dead too?


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> For Instance He Types Everything Like This.
> 
> And He Types Drink like this Drynk.
> 
> It's No Big Damm Deal.



On the First... No I Don't.

On the 2nd... Yes I Do. 





peace...


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



Well, he's an Officer...

And I was Drawing Attention to that Fact.

Then Asking who would be "Harassing" an Officer on Base.

It's also a Word that has other Meanings, and ALL CAPS Seemed Appropriate for "MAJOR"... 



peace...


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


No, but they did say some SWAT team members were injured.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Good question ... I'm not sure if that came from the officials at Ft. Hood though ... I'll put my weak google-fu to work and see if I can scrounge up a quote.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

I found this statement:



> Lieutenant General Bob Cone: "A shooter opened fire. That person was killed. At this time, we are looking at 12 dead and 31 wounded. They are dispersed among the local hospitals in this area in Texas.



Twelve dead in shooting rampage at Fort Hood US military base in Texas - Telegraph

The hero shot him four times:



> Fort Hood, Texas (CNN)  -- The police officer who ended the Fort Hood massacre by shooting the suspect is known as the enforcer on her street, a "tough woman" who patrolled her neighborhood and once stopped burglars at her house.
> 
> "If you come in, I'm going to shoot," Kimberly Munley told the would-be intruders last year.
> 
> It was Munley who arrived quickly Thursday at the scene of the worst massacre at an Army base in U.S. history, where 13 people were killed. She confronted the alleged gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, and shot him four times. Munley was wounded in the exchange.



Twelve dead in shooting rampage at Fort Hood US military base in Texas - Telegraph

And here is the clarification from General Cone:



> Authorities had said immediately after Thursday's attack that they had killed the suspected shooter but this was later changed.
> 
> "There was a single shooter that was shot multiple times at the scene, he was not killed as previously reported," Cone said.
> 
> "He is currently in custody and in stable condition."



Gunman alive after US army base shooting - Yahoo!Xtra News


----------



## mal (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> I found this statement:
> 
> 
> 
> ...









*Data Miner 15!*​




peace...


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

Article 15 said:


> I found this statement:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like General Cone got some bad information. It happens when people are under stress.

I hope this isn't going to turn into some ridiculous conspiracy theory.


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Looks like General Cone got some bad information. It happens when people are under stress.
> 
> I hope this isn't going to turn into some ridiculous conspiracy theory.



That's what it looks like to me too, Rav.  There was a whole lot of confusion and Hassan had four bullets put into him.


----------



## Maple (Nov 6, 2009)

How fitting that it was a woman who took him down, knowing that muslim men think women are worthless and less valuable than the camel they ride on.lol


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...




Go watch "Good Morning Vietnam" and if you do, and if youuu doooo, pay attention.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 6, 2009)

Maple said:


> How fitting that it was a woman who took him down, knowing that muslim men think women are worthless and less valuable than the camel they ride on.lol




What is the fucking year? Do we have the internet yet?  One of the things that pisses me off the most is the wasted pafuckingthetic shitball bigotry balloon bonfires of absolutely false information.  


We fully disrespect the lives lost by using tragedies like this to try and justify blind hatred.  The dead aren't even fucking buried yet.  How fucking selfish does someone have to be to use their murders to make such blatantly false comments?  You can call me every name in the book in your response but I promise none of it can compare with the hate you've already unleashed.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



you are dead wrong Ravi. I posted the original news conference. Go watch it.


----------



## Ravi (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...


Which one...your link had five.

So you are saying that the military got it wrong? I'm not sure what that proves.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Ravi said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



the thread titled Article 15 Video on right,, press conf 11-5-09


----------



## Mike458877 (Nov 6, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mike458877 said:
> 
> 
> > "most everybody" ????
> ...





I didn't ask you for your personal history.

I ask you for a direct answer.

So thanks for the reply and I understand the your reason for avoidance.

Mike


----------



## Annie (Nov 6, 2009)

Switching gears...Some of you know that I've followed Blackfive since he went online. I've read [ame="http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0743294181/ref=s9_asin_title/002-1918050-6400869"]his book[/ame], which I think is a good start to anyone interested in military, 9/11, or the MSM. 

He was in the military for many a year, like the shooter, the military paid for his advanced education, difference was, he's using it for good.

Not all Muslims, in or out of the US military are like the shooter. However, there are forces about that allowed a person of a faith seen as 'minority' to rise to a pretty high level, 'major' this Spring, while being investigated for multiple reasons for things said against our country, including threats. 



BLACKFIVE: Fort Hood Shooting - Aftermath



> FORT HOOD SHOOTING - AFTERMATH
> POSTED BY BLACKFIVE
> First, Soldiers' Angels is gathering cards for the families of the fallen and the wounded.
> 
> ...


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Annie said:


> Switching gears...Some of you know that I've followed Blackfive since he went online. I've read his book, which I think is a good start to anyone interested in military, 9/11, or the MSM.
> 
> He was in the military for many a year, like the shooter, the military paid for his advanced education, difference was, he's using it for good.
> 
> ...






Thanks for the link Annie. I bookmarked the site. My god, did you read the first comment from Matt? That never occurred to me. I remember asking my husband how one man could kill so many with two handguns.


----------



## Annie (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> ...
> 
> Thanks for the link Annie. I bookmarked the site. My god, did you read the first comment from Matt? That never occurred to me. I remember asking my husband how one man could kill so many with two handguns.



yep. Matt is one cool hombre. I've met him in meet ups. Let's just say that U of C alumni are close, but I'll say he's heads and shoulders over moi. Smartest guy I've ever met. Best drinker too.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 6, 2009)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...




I think so. It's one thing to be muslim...it's another to be one who strictly follows the koran. That would be a FUNDAMENTALIST Muslim.

This guy was a fruitcake. His family is lying about him. He received a poor evaluation, which nixes any chances for promotion. He had hired an attorney to represent him in his efforts to not go to Afghanistan and treat soldiers who are damaged because of his brother Muslims. He didn't want to go, he was pissed that he had to, and he wanted out of his obligation to the Army, despite the fact they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to educate his pathetic ass.

He was DISCIPLINED for trying to convert the servicemen he was treating, because he was using treatment time to attempt to convert them to Islam.

He acquired the gun, and armor penetrating bullets, (either the gun or the bullets are called cop killers) some time before the incident. He left a good bye message to a friend on his voice mail.

Premeditated, had nothing to do with whatever ribbing he may have been subjected to (oh boo fucking hoo), and I really doubt he received a terrible lot, as he was a higher rank. Don't know exactly who would be hassling him...highly unlikely he was getting it from his superior officers, even more unlikely that the lower rank soldiers were jeering at him.

So his motivation was religious. I don't think there's any question. He was screaming Allah akbar as he was shooting down into people's noggins.


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## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

theHawk said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



My point was referencing the media's need to be careful.  You can jump to whatever conclusions you like


----------



## Annie (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > Diuretic said:
> ...



I agree with you premise, but the media hasn't been all that careful, I mean the guy was reported as 'dead' for hours around the world.


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## Immanuel (Nov 6, 2009)

Annie said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



Technically, he is dead... dead man walking.  It is all over but the pulling of the switch or in a military execution is it still the pulling of the trigger(s)?

Immie


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## AllieBaba (Nov 6, 2009)

The military will wuss out when it comes to offing him.


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## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
> Exhibit 2: He wanted out of the military after 9/11! I think most of us remember the surge in recruitment back then.
> Exhibit 3: He attacked US soldiers
> Exhibit 4: He was extremely upset with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
> ...



Appeasers?  What  a bloody stupid position to take.  This was an individual act, the way you're banging on you'd think every second Muslim in the States was firing away at people.  Yes it's tragic but put it into perspective.  One man apparently went nutso.  The reasons for him going nutso were apparently related to his religion and cultural identity and his imminent posting to a war zone in an Islamic country occupied by western forces.  Appeasers?  That's not appeasing, it's simply trying to understand what happened.


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## Immanuel (Nov 6, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The military will wuss out when it comes to offing him.



Maybe, but I don't think so.

Of course, that is assuming that he makes it to trial.

What is the latest on his condition?

Immie


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
> ...



He isn't one man who went nutso. Islamic fundamentalists around the world are wacko, including those in the US, and they are attacking us. To deny it is to lie.


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## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...


"To deny it is to lie" - Newspeak?  

Religious fundamentalists of any stripe are certainly not all there, they have definitely got mental problems.  But most of them aren't going around killing people.  Fact is a lot of killing is done for secular reasons but secular people aren't being accused of attacking everyone are they? 

This bloke went postal.  People go postal.  Martin Bryant went postal at Port Arthur, Tasmania.  This bloke went postal for the reasons that have been explored here - apparently.  But there are plenty of Muslims in America who are uncomfortable with the invasion and occupation of Iraq who are not going postal.  This was an individual's act, not an act of a particular religious grouping.


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## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

Anyway, about Officer Kimberley Munley.

1. Courageous
2. Professional
3. Handled the active shooter incident in a manner which followed recent doctrine and stopped many more casualties.
4. The next time I hear someone say women can't do police work I am going to tear strips off them (verbally, I'm not a violent man).

I hope Officer Munley is recognised for her outstanding bravery and professionalism.


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## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
> ...



not to mention of course that apparently he milked the system for a damn good education then wanted to back out of his contract,, just too damn inconvenient to stand up for his country. Nice way to repay your country huh? by killing of the innocents?? Yes, I'd say "appeasers" fits nicely.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Anyway, about Officer Kimberley Munley.
> 
> 1. Courageous
> 2. Professional
> ...



You're a cop, of course you'd say that.
(Just pulling your chain )


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## KittenKoder (Nov 6, 2009)

Cops rule, perps drool.


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## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



Careful Willow, any more stretching and you'll bust something


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

Ringel05 said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, about Officer Kimberley Munley.
> ...



I wish I was half the cop she is!


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 6, 2009)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalem, of all that post Kalem knows the least of Islam, Kalem has his nose stuck up the Koran so far Kalem has never bothered to read the unbiased western accounts of Islamic history.
> ...



Kalem, your white? We are all shocked, I would never of guessed, I though I was speaking with the same Sunni that make up al qaeda, next thing you are going to tell me is your not in a cave. I guess that just goes to show that Kalem is the smart one after all.

Kalem, I am glad you only read the holy books of Islam, like the Hadith, or Hadiths. Kalem that is why you dont know much about Islam, you see Kalem many great works were written by westerners, also by writers from Russia, Kalem remembers this, Kalem stereotyped my sources as being biased western books when one source was written by an Iraqi, another by a Russian. Kalem even called the books "written by travelers", funny, why is a man of such great intellegence stereotyping books Kalem had never heard of?

How much can Kalem really know when he is so quick to stereotype all non-islamic books.

Kalem thinks he needs to tell me Kalem is white, Kalem has stereotyped all non-islamic books, Kalem posts erronously about books Kalem never heard of. How can one who is so smart act, well for the lack of a better word, act as a bigot. 

As far as how Kalem originally described the dead victims not being guilty of rape and murder, that in light of your other idiotic comments show me that outside _cuting and pasting_ the Koran, Kalem knows nothing, Kalem does not even recogonize when Kalem's post are exactly what Kalem insinuates others posts are, Stereotyping and Bigoted.

Kalem is white. Kalem is a moslem not.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Diuretic said:
> ...




what part was stretched?


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



The "appeasers" bit.  It seems that any attempt to look at an issue objectively brings up the assertion of "appeaser".  It's not just a stretch, it's a calculated smear.  

This bloke for example.  He apparently got his education in return for service.  I know that is the case in my country in the military as well.  And some people do try and get out of it.  I know one bloke who was an RAAF pilot who wanted to get out and work for an overseas airline, he had a huge legal battle with the service and eventually got out.  Should he have been permitted to do so?  Should he have been ordered to serve out his time?  I'm not sure if I would want to be sitting in the seat next to him if he was consumed with frustration and anger about not being able to get out and fly for big bucks.  

For what it's worth though, I see your point.  He has been given a very good education and he was morally obligated to his return of service for that education.  

But pointing out that his problems were caused - apparently - by his own actions and that while his religious and cultural values contributed to his sense of frustration and anger and probably fear but that they couldn't be generalised to Muslims, whether they are serving in the military or not, is not appeasement.


----------



## JW Frogen (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> I wish I was half the cop she is!



She put that mother fucker down quick time, and while being hit several times.

I like it.

I bet she is a wild cat in bed too.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > Diuretic said:
> ...







I think you misunderstand what we are saying when we say appeasement, maybe a better term is "politically correct".


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Diuretic said:
> ...



The first step is to give Oz cops a gun -- and a bullet.  Everything else flows from there.  
(I kid, I kid)


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 6, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



That could well be my mistake.  I have to admit that when I see or hear the word my mind starts running the Neville Chamberlain newsreel, probably that's what's going on with me.

As for "politically correct", I don't mean to sound cranky but I think that gets too much of a run as well sometimes.  I agree that some time ago it became bloody ridiculous but now it seems to have shifted its meaning.  Now again I have to acknowledge that I may have a different view of its meaning than an American.  And that could well lead me down a blind alley.  For me PC is the ridiculous behaviour where public and private authorities act so as to "not offend."  Golliwogs were banned in the UK I think because it was seen as offensive to dark skinned people to have them on sale in shops.  That's PC, well my understanding of it.

But arguing that ethnicity, religion, cultural values can't be used to broadly condemn isn't PC.

Take this bloke:



> JERUSALEM: Yaakov Teitel is the new face of Israel's extreme right-wing religious movement. A fanatical Jewish settler from the tiny outpost of Shvut Rahel in the northern West Bank, Teitel flashed the peace sign as he was led from an Israeli courtroom this week.
> 
> But after confessing to a string of murders and hate crimes over the past 12 years, Teitel has emerged as anything but a peacemaker.
> 
> Branded a ''Jewish terrorist'', the 37-year-old father of four has already admitted to the murders of two Palestinians in 1997 and the pipe-bombing of the left-wing Israeli academic Zeev Sternhell this year



Man of hatred shocks the land he calls home

Would it be fair to take this fellow as an example and from that generalise to all Jews?  Or even all Jewish settlers in the disputed territories?  I don't think it's fair to do that.  This bloke is alleged to have done these things as an individual.  Yes his view of his religion and culture have been used by him to justify his actions to himself.  But that doesn't taint his religion or his culture.  The bloke could well be a nutter and that's the issue, not his religion or his culture.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 6, 2009)

appeasement: The policy of granting concessions to potential enemies to maintain.

politically correct: Of, relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, especially to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation.
Being or perceived as being overconcerned with such change, often to the exclusion of other matters.
*asknow.com*


----------



## Vel (Nov 6, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Exhibit 1: He was a Muslim
> ...




 I think the point that most people are trying to make is that if this guy HADN'T been Muslim, military authorities would probably been more reactive to the odd behavior he'd displayed. In today's PC world everyone is so afraid of being branded a bigot or a racist or a xenophobe or whatever other name people apply that they'll overlook the obvious. It's a sad thing that people's safety is compromised for political correctness.


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## JW Frogen (Nov 6, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> The first step is to give Oz cops a gun -- and a bullet.  Everything else flows from there.
> (I kid, I kid)




If the Australian government could find a way to raise revenue by shooting people, believe me they would do it, and tell us it is for our own safety.


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## BolshevikHunter (Nov 6, 2009)

Ah Oh well, we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings just to save a few good folks lives. ~BH


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 6, 2009)

JW Frogen said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > The first step is to give Oz cops a gun -- and a bullet.  Everything else flows from there.
> ...



I've noticed the Aussie gov has a fondness for GST.  On everything, so I suppose you are completely right! And.....Rudd's folks *would* tell you it was for your own darned good too.


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 7, 2009)

Vel6377 said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



If that is the case then firstly, thank you for clarifying that for me, I was obviously reading the context wrongly (and I'm not being sarcastic, I mean it).  Secondly, if that is what's happening then it has to stop because, as you point out, it's going to inhibit a proper and reasonable response to perceived or reported problematic situations.


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 7, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > Ringel05 said:
> ...





We all have guns here - my mob is moving from the .357 S&W Magnums (19 and 66) to the S&W M&P .40 - the troops are pretty pleased with the new Smith apparently.  The tactical unit, they've got a virtual arsenal of things that made loud and repetitive banging noises.  Most other forces here have Glocks (I think .40) and one has .38 S&W Police Specials but they are being urged to go s/auto.

I used to carry my own Colt Diamondback when I was in investigations, but the private firearm permission was rescinded when some idiot thought he should walk around with a .44 Magnum....

Sorry, threadjack.


----------



## del (Nov 7, 2009)

Mike458877 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mike458877 said:
> ...



your laziness isn't his avoidance.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...




How many muslims have we killed in the last 20 years?  Oh shit....that doesn't matter because to you muslims aren't really people.  Stop trying the victim card because anyone with a shred of honesty will admit we are not innocent.  The killing and wounding of about 60 soldiers sends many on a self righteous stomping path but they are so fucking far removed they fail to understand this is what we have been doing for about ten years.  The major difference is we have killed and wounded countless civilians.  That is terrorism.  What happened at Ft. Hood is not terrorism by definition.  Might be hard to admit but the truth is rarely a joy ride.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



In this situation the PC crowds are the geopolitical and anthropological geniuses who claim Islam is responsible.


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 7, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Appeasers?  What  a bloody stupid position to take.  This was an individual act, the way you're banging on you'd think every second Muslim in the States was firing away at people.  Yes it's tragic but put it into perspective.  One man apparently went nutso.  The reasons for him going nutso were apparently related to his religion and cultural identity and his imminent posting to a war zone in an Islamic country occupied by western forces.  Appeasers?  That's not appeasing, it's simply trying to understand what happened.



Read some of my other posts in the thread before you make the assumption. I have even stated here that there is a GIGANTIC difference between American Muslims and Islamofacists! American Muslims are just like every other group in American the VAST majority love their country and are hard working productive people (I have mentioned many times about the bravest person I know is an Iraqi American Shia Muslim, who enlisted in the Military right after the invasion of Iraq and has been their ever since! He is a True American, Patriot, Nationalist, Hero, who happens to be a secular American Muslim).

But then you have the Islamofacist! Ones, who many times have many other emotional or psychological like the scumbag in this story, are driven or develop a radical interpretation of Islam and that justifies them killing others (notice I didn't say Non-Musims, because the VAST majority of Islamofacist victims are MUSLIM)!

Knowing this distinction SHOULD NOT stop us (or have the media shelter us) from calling a spade a spade!

The concept of Lone Wolves started with random attacks by lone KKK and Skinhead members! We have no problem characterizing these attacks as white supremacy inspired attacks. Yet we  do when its Islamofacist inspired attacks!


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > Appeasers?  What  a bloody stupid position to take.  This was an individual act, the way you're banging on you'd think every second Muslim in the States was firing away at people.  Yes it's tragic but put it into perspective.  One man apparently went nutso.  The reasons for him going nutso were apparently related to his religion and cultural identity and his imminent posting to a war zone in an Islamic country occupied by western forces.  Appeasers?  That's not appeasing, it's simply trying to understand what happened.
> ...




I never equated our Troops with terrorists.  Lying seems to be the only way you can keep posting.  I'm used to the sheep mentality where people repeat dumb terms like islamofascism but I will never get used to people caring more about bullshit whining versus sincere dialogue.


----------



## Yukon (Nov 7, 2009)

Your US Army really is pathetic when it comes to security. What kind of Mickey Mouse organization allows screwball converts to Islam provide mental help to veternas of a war where Muslis are being killed? This nut job even had a website calling for Jihad against America. 

Pathetic and disgusting is the security in America. No wonder you people are laughed at all over the world. I guess when you here the word Jihad you think it's a B-Ball Team maybe ?

Allah Akbar ! Peace on Earth and Goodwill towards Muslims !


p.s Is the KKK active on US Military bases ?


----------



## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Your US Army really is pathetic when it comes to security. What kind of Mickey Mouse organization allows screwball converts to Islam provide mental help to veternas of a war where Muslis are being killed? This nut job even had a website calling for Jihad against America.
> 
> Pathetic and disgusting is the security in America. No wonder you people are laughed at all over the world. I guess when you here the word Jihad you think it's a B-Ball Team maybe ?
> 
> ...



Yukon tries so hard -- soooooo ploddingly and obviously -- to be an antagonistic jism-sucking douchebag.  

There is no need to try so hard, Joke-on.  Nobody takes you seriously.  You're just a pathetic little asswipe fucktard; and that's all you will ever be.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Dp


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 7, 2009)

I hate to say it, but I'm sort of with Yukon on his latest point. This guy should have been outed the minute he said he didn't want to go to Afghanistan or Iraq. Actually, he should have been outed the minute he tried to convert patient. He should also have been reported to the psychiatric board or whatever loons they have monitoring licensed psychiatrists in this country. Big boo boo. All the warning signs were there, and they were ignored.


----------



## Yukon (Nov 7, 2009)

Hey if you guys want to find BIN LADEN just go down to Miami. He's living there as Ben Greenbaum. He fits right in. Tell your US Army Police where he is........................hahahahahahahaha.....Muslims giving soldiers mental help.........what a f&&&ing joke. They should change the name of Fort Hood to Fort Bin Laden.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 7, 2009)

Again. I agree. Fucking idiotic. Tell guys who have ptsd from having their units blown up by Muslim lunatics that they're getting counseling from a Muslim fanatic.

I can't believe one of them didn't go berserck and kill the bastard. Then of course, the Army would come under fire for unfairly targeting Muslims.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > Your US Army really is pathetic when it comes to security. What kind of Mickey Mouse organization allows screwball converts to Islam provide mental help to veternas of a war where Muslis are being killed? This nut job even had a website calling for Jihad against America.
> ...




You seriously embarrass yourself and all other Conservatives with this garbage.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I hate to say it, but I'm sort of with Yukon on his latest point. This guy should have been outed the minute he said he didn't want to go to Afghanistan or Iraq. Actually, he should have been outed the minute he tried to convert patient. He should also have been reported to the psychiatric board or whatever loons they have monitoring licensed psychiatrists in this country. Big boo boo. All the warning signs were there, and they were ignored.




Do you realize the military and the WH both have deeply vested interests in painting this as being the fault of Islam?  I'd be a bit skeptical about how the pro government msm is helping by putting out speculations as unmitigated facts. Also, a soldier objecting to deployment is nothing new and the military doesn't exactly say "Oh okay, you don't want to go? How about a post in Hawaii or Florida? Do you like sandy beaches and warm weather?"


----------



## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > Yukon said:
> ...



Lightweight:

It's funny when you attempt to state your opinion as though it carried any weight.

The truth, though, is that you are just a pompous gasbag and your opinion is actually of no value to me  --or to almost anyone else.

If and when you manage to stick to a point of any interest to an actual conversation, send up a flare.

Until then, feel free to go fuck yourself again.  No.  Seriously!

Regards,

your pal,

Liability


----------



## Contumacious (Nov 7, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> ... there is a GIGANTIC difference between American Muslims and Islamofacists! s!



What's the difference .....that one group patiently accepts the abuse being dished out by the zionuts and neocrazies and the other won't.

.

.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 7, 2009)

American Islamofascists are waiting patiently and pouring money into their more active counterparts.

They're just waiting.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Again. I agree. Fucking idiotic. Tell guys who have ptsd from having their units blown up by Muslim lunatics that they're getting counseling from a Muslim fanatic.
> 
> I can't believe one of them didn't go berserck and kill the bastard. Then of course, the Army would come under fire for unfairly targeting Muslims.



Are you aware not everyone in iraq and afghanistan are muslims?


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 7, 2009)

Absolutely. But then, we aren't at war with those folks. And they aren't at war with us.


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 7, 2009)

And they are targeted with even more regularity than we are. As I said, moderate muslims are hated by the Islamofascists even more than Americans are. So ultimately, they're on our side.


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Again. I agree. Fucking idiotic. Tell guys who have ptsd from having their units blown up by Muslim lunatics that they're getting counseling from a Muslim fanatic.
> ...



Are you high?

Of what relevance is that inconsequential little factoid?

Are you suggesting that there are non-Muslims who are engaged in the activities that are blowing up our military units?

You just make your shit up on the fly, assmonkey.

Try backing up some of your shit for a refreshing change of pace.

Regards,

your pal,

Liability


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




Nobody's opinion has any value through your lens.  This is why the best you can do is call people names.  You're like the white dude from Office Space sitting in a little 4 banger listening to rap until you look around and realize you don't have the courage to be yourself.  Instead, you use a message board as compensation for all you lack and this is most apparent in your usertitle.  Honest role models do not use self proclamations.  They don't have time because they are too busy doing what you pretend to be.


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## GHook93 (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Again. I agree. Fucking idiotic. Tell guys who have ptsd from having their units blown up by Muslim lunatics that they're getting counseling from a Muslim fanatic.
> ...



Oh boy! Afghanistan is about 99% Muslim and Iraq is 97% (the Christians hiding in Kurdistan)!

Demography of Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Demographics of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




Nobody's opinion has any value through your lens.  This is why the best you can do is call people names.  You're like the white dude from Office Space sitting in a little 4 banger listening to rap until you look around and realize you don't have the courage to be yourself.  Instead, you use a message board as compensation for all you lack and this is most apparent in your usertitle.  Honest role models do not use self proclamations.  They don't have time because they are too busy doing what you pretend to be.


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



How about that?  You are wrong yet again!  At least you have consistency on your side.  

I value the opinions of many people, even some of those with whom I find I am in the greatest ultimate disagreement.  That stems from having an open mind.  You ought to try it someday!

Word!

The reason I find no value in your spew is that you tend to speak in broad and unsupported generalizations.  You are indifferent to backing up your proclamations of mere opinion with anything even remotely resembling a "fact."  Facts are cool.  They are another kind of thing you might want to consider investigating the use of someday!

Regards,

Your newest bestest buddy,

Liability


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



That's odd.  Didn't you just get done saying my opinion is irrelevant?  Now you care? 

It's kind of silly to blame Islam for people retaliating against a foreign military occupation.  I'm guessing that is an alien concept because you probably believe America has the inherent right to invade and occupy any nation our government chooses.


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




By all means, let's have a one on one debate about what happened at Ft. Hood.  That is or course if your Majesty can find the charity to school someone like me.


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Your ongoing confusion and lack of basic comprehension skills are showing -- and amusing.  Your mere unsupported opinions ARE irrelevant.  To whatever marginal extent you think your mere opinions might be of any value, however, they will remain useless when (as is always the case with you so far) you steadfastly fail to support them with actual facts.

Your last paragraph is meaningless inasmuch as (obviously) it is disconnected from your prior spew and -- even standing alone -- unsupported by facts.

You are a true joke.

Feel free to keep trying, though.

By the way, any country, including ours, DOES have a right to invade any other country harboring scum who attack it.

The other countries which get invaded of course have a right -- if they are so inclined -- to object and try to repel such invasions or incursions.  This is rather basic stuff in international law.  But their objections do not negate our right to go after the filth that are targetting and attacking us.

If, unimaginably, WE elected to harbor some filthy scum who had attacked Canada, for example, and if WE proceeded to refuse or fail do anything about the filth hiding in our land, Candada would have a right to do something about it.  Whether they COULD is another matter entirely.  

Like other facets of reality, this will sail over your pinhead at mach speed, no doubt. That's ok.  I don't actually care how ignorant or stupid you are.


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> * * * *
> 
> 
> By all means, let's have a one on one debate about what happened at Ft. Hood.  That is or course if your Majesty can find the charity to school someone like me.



Put your feeble efforts at sarcasm aside.  You'll look less foolish that way.

If you wish to engage in some "debate" of some kind, the framework isn't all that difficult.

Make an assertion.  Try to use actual facts and a logical syllogism to support your contention or position.  If I disagree with you on it, then I will be more than pleased to address either your alleged "facts," your alleged "logic," or the conclusion as it stems, supposedly, from the facts or logic.

If you say something with which I agree, however, there is not much reason to "debate" it.

See how this works?  Good.

Now then;  what is it about the incident at Fort Hood you want to "debate?"


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## Contumacious (Nov 7, 2009)

It is truly a shame that those GI's died in Fort Hood.


But it is also a shame that Palestinians have been slaughtered since 1925. The US has been financing their genocide since 1947.

It is also a shame that Iraqis have been murdered and terrorized since 1990.

It is also a shame that Afghans and Pakistanis are been bombarded by US Drones and slaughtered in the process.

Hence , it is a shame that the US' Foreign Policy creates an avenger every second.

.


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




The iraq invasion violated our treaty with the UNSC and as such our own Constitution.  Specifically Article 6.  

You complain about broad assertions then repeat the "harboring scum" line? ROTFL!


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Nope.  You are not there yet.

Please be specific.  Provide citations and links.

You CLAIM that our invasion in Iraq somehow allegedly violated a UN treaty.  Habing made that alleged FACTUAL assertion, you carry the burden of backing it up.  Support your contention.

YOU make the CLAIM that our invasion in Iraq somehowe violated our own Constitution.  But again, you FAIL to back it up.  Please attend to that immediately.  How does the invasion in Iraq violate Article 6 of the Constitution?  Don't just state your mere opinion that it does, this time.  Back it up.

And I was under the impression that you somehow wished to engage in a debate about Ft. Hood.  But when invited to go ahead and do so, you instead make two random and unsupported premises (involving no syllogism whatsoever, by the way) about another topic entirely.

You are not doing much to dispel the things I observed about you.

Feel free to try again.

Try for coherence this time.


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > * * * *
> ...




To purpose is to reveal the depths of hypocrisy found in the camps that claim to be Patriotic, Conservative, and Supporters of our Troops who have or still do support our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.  I will even give you all of the assumptions necessary to give your position the strongest possible base.  You want to say hasan did it because of Islam?  Fine.  You have the freedom to make any assumptions you see as beneficial to your case.


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## Kingpin (Nov 7, 2009)

This terrible news has ditsturbed me very greatly.


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




I don't care what your shallow-minded "purpose" might be.

I asked you to formulate a syllogism by use of facts and logic.

So far, you remain a complete FAIL.

Try again.


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 7, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Your US Army really is pathetic when it comes to security. What kind of Mickey Mouse organization allows screwball converts to Islam provide mental help to veternas of a war where Muslis are being killed? This nut job even had a website calling for Jihad against America.
> 
> Pathetic and disgusting is the security in America. No wonder you people are laughed at all over the world. I guess when you here the word Jihad you think it's a B-Ball Team maybe ?
> 
> ...


 

*Why not get your FACTS straight??????????????????????*

*This person was born and raised Muslim in Virginia, he was not a convert. *

*Wingnuts rush to conclusions about Fort Hood shooter -- but cousin says he was 'good American' harassed for being Muslim*

*By David Neiwert Thursday Nov 05, 2009 6:00pm *


Wingnuts rush to conclusions about Fort Hood shooter -- but cousin says he was 'good American' harassed for being Muslim | Crooks and Liars 


*No sooner was the identity of the Fort Hood shooter released -- a man with the Arab name Nadal Malik Hasan -- than the wingnuts sprang into predictable action: Of course he was a jihadi embarking on a murderous terrorism spree!*


*Pam "Atlas Barks" Geller** immediately proclaimed it "an obvious act terrorism" and ran big all all caps heads declaring: "IT'S THE JIHAD STUPID." Elsewhere in the right blogosphere, people like the folks at **HotAir** jumped all over the "news" that Hasan was a convert to Islam.*


*Then **Shepard Smith interviewed Hasan's cousin**, and we found out that this was all so much tripe:*


*-- Hasan was American born and educated, but raised Muslim. He was not a convert.*


*-- He had never previously been deployed to Iraq or anywhere overseas, for that matter. So much for the theories he suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.*


*-- He was regularly abused by his colleagues in the military for being Muslim -- called a "raghead" and other such terms -- and had been seeking to get out of the military because the environment had become so hostile.*


*Another interview, on just before this one, that Smith had with a former colleague of Hasan's indicated that Hasan was prone to making outrageous remarks about Muslims "defending themselves," particularly in reference to last summer's shooting of two military recruiters in Arkansas by a Muslim convert.*


*There are also reports that he had recently been the victim of a hate crime: His car was vandalized, with the word "Allah" scratched into the paint, and he was reportedly extremely upset by it.*


*It's obviously a complicated story. We'd all be well advised to reserve the speculation to actual hard facts about the case as they emerge. But it certainly appears this is much a matter of Columbine-like backlash to bullying as it is anything ideological.*

*And no, it's not the Jihad, stupid.*

____________________________________________________​ 


*As for websites, there are plenty of fundi-nut Christians with websites calling for war on MAINSTREAM Americans.*

*Some "Christian" shrinks also "try to convert" or talk religion?*

*Separating religion and state is a GOOD THING!*


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## rightwinger (Nov 7, 2009)

Hasan was a misfit who happens to be a Muslim

He didn't fit well in the Army, he was receiving poor performance ratings, he lost his dream job at Walter Reed in MD and was sent to Ft Hood in Texas and was about to be shipped to Afghanistan.

The crackpot went off the deep end and took his fellow soldiers with him. 
Too bad he wasn't killed


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




Article 2 of the United Nations Charter. 

Text of Article 2, Section 3- 4. &#8220;All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered. .... [and] refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.&#8221; 


Articles 39 - 50 of the United Nations Charter.

Summary of Articles 39-50. Articles 39 - 50 of the United Nations Charter clearly stipulate that no member state is authorized to use military force against another country without the UN Security Council first determining that certain criteria have been met. (1) There must be a material breach of its resolution; and (2) All nonmilitary and peaceful options to enforce the resolution must be fully exhausted. Once it has been decided that the necessary conditions for military action have been met, only the UN Security Council can authorize the use of military force. 
Charter of the United Nations


Article VI, Clause 2 of the US Constitution. 

Summary of Article VI. The article states that international treaties such as the U.N. Charter, which was ratified by the US in 1945, are the &#8220;supreme law of the land.&#8221; The article reads:&#8220;This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.&#8221; 
LII: Constitution


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




If you wish to not debate then by all means simply say no.  Anyone who cares can see I clearly stated my position. You will either accept the debate offer or continue on your glorious path of name calling.  Everyone is impressed with that.


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 7, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Diuretic said:
> 
> 
> > Appeasers? What a bloody stupid position to take. This was an individual act, the way you're banging on you'd think every second Muslim in the States was firing away at people. Yes it's tragic but put it into perspective. One man apparently went nutso. The reasons for him going nutso were apparently related to his religion and cultural identity and his imminent posting to a war zone in an Islamic country occupied by western forces. Appeasers? That's not appeasing, it's simply trying to understand what happened.
> ...


 
What exactly would a "secular Muslim" be? 

Since to be Muslim is to be one who practices Islam, and since "Muslim" is not a "race"...

BTW, there are also no "secular" Christians... because Christians are not a "race" or ethic group, either...

*Secularism*


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Still so far away.

In the first place, although you are attempting to attend to the matter of facts and citation (and links), you are failing massively at using them in a coherent syllogism.

It works like this.  "I assert proposition X (it's really a conclusion).  In support of that proposition or assertion, I cite these facts as dispositive (state facts 1, 2, 3, etc., as needed).  I employ the following LOGIC to support my claim that these facts lead to the conclusion (state your logic in some form or another)."

You are, by contrast, stating some "facts" (putting aside that they are not true facts, but that's a matter best left to the actual debate if we can ever get it off the ground).  

So, since you have yet to offer a syllogism, the discussion of your "facts" is premature.  But, being a man of good will, I will offer you a preview all the same.

The UN Treaty does not outlaw war.

You have failed to establish that the actions undertaken by the U.S. is somehow a violation of the U.N. charter.  You have made the claim, but you have not yet supported it.

Further, your understanding of the United States Constitution is also deficient.  The Supremacy Clause does not make a Treaty the same as The Constitution.  What it means is simply that a law made in pursuance of the Constitution (i.e., one that does not violate it) or a treaty made by and entered into by the United States is SUPREME as it relates to any STATE treaty.  States can also enter into international treaties, by the way.

Thus, where the U.S. enters into a treaty with the U.N. (or with any other sovereign nation for that matter), even a violation of the treaty is not a violation of the Supremacy Clause.  You are merely miscomprehending what the Supremacy Clause means.

I give you credit for getting a bit closer.  But you are still WAY off target.

Let me give you yet another preview to assist your development of your debate position.  IF the U.N charter meant what you seemingly think it means, then no nation would ever be entitled to engage in war.  If you believe that this is what WE understood when WE (by the Senate ratification) entered into that treaty, then I suggest that you have some more fundamental reading to do *before* you stake your claim.

I hope this helps.


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




You need to provide links and citations to support these empty claims.

Btw, I never said the UN treaty outlawed War.  After you practice what you preach about links and such we can move on to removing your strawmen.


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## GHook93 (Nov 7, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Hasan was a misfit who happens to be a Muslim
> 
> He didn't fit well in the Army, he was receiving poor performance ratings, he lost his dream job at Walter Reed in MD and was sent to Ft Hood in Texas and was about to be shipped to Afghanistan.
> 
> ...



Yet one of his motivations was Jihad against America! Otherwise he would have (1) not blogged about suicide bombers being great soldiers, (2) Not wanted out of the military after 9/11, (3) Specifically targeted fellow military personnel and (4) Would not have yell Allahu Akbar as he killed military personnel.

It appears he survived, so hopeful we will be able to hear his twisted motivation!


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## GHook93 (Nov 7, 2009)

Contessa_Sharra said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Diuretic said:
> ...



Secular meaning, he is not very religious, has no problem with other religions, cares more about country than religion, doesn't hate another specifically because their religion, is tolerant and above all believes in separation of Church/Mosque and State!


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## del (Nov 7, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Contessa_Sharra said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



so pretty much the opposite of you, eh?


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



No.  You did not.

You stated only that the UN Treaty says thus and so, but have completely FAILED to try to establish that those words have the meaning you ascribe to them.

You have not even attempted to demonstrate that any U.S. actions constitute a violation of the U.N. charter.

You patently screwed up your attempted claim that going into Iraq was in ANY way a violation of the supremacy clause of our Constitution (for reasons I patiently and accurately explained for your benefit).  Indeed, that is an utterly mindless claim by you.

And none of anything you have posted bears in ANY way on your previous contention relative to the incident at Fort Hood.

YOU remain an abject failure.


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## rightwinger (Nov 7, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Hasan was a misfit who happens to be a Muslim
> ...



Right now we will have to wait and see. They have confiscated his computer which should provide more clues. Don't know what Hassan will say, he may just lawyer up

Yelling Allah Akbar is more along the lines of a Christian yelling Amen!
They say it dozens of times a day and does not necessarilly mean it is religiously motivated. It may have just been his acknowledgement that he was about to die.


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 7, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Contessa_Sharra said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...


 
You really should read the definition of Secularism, as "not very' doesn't really qualify.....

And it is at times like these all need to be completely specific and concise.


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Come off it, leftwingnuter.  Yelling "allah akbar" under those circumstances has a meaning it is silly to try to deny.  

Good grief.  You make yourself seem quite silly arguing such a silly position.

Is it *possible* that Hassan was nothing but a fucking nutbar and that his actions had nothing to do with Islamist fanatacism?  Yes.  But under all of the circumstances, including the phrase he yelled out just before the shooting, it is not all that terribly likely.


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## concept (Nov 7, 2009)

This PC crap is going to get allot of people killed.


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




Oh boy.  I made my position regarding the invitation to debate Ft Hood clear in post 754:


To purpose is to reveal the depths of hypocrisy found in the camps that claim to be Patriotic, Conservative, and Supporters of our Troops who have or still do support our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.  I will even give you all of the assumptions necessary to give your position the strongest possible base.  You want to say hasan did it because of Islam?  Fine.  You have the freedom to make any assumptions you see as beneficial to your case. 


You've danced enough and have proven to be what I suspected.  Have fun.


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...




Fucking clueless commentaries like this quickly turn to facts in the minds of those who have already arrived at their conclusions but don't have the balls to publicly state them.


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## Kalam (Nov 7, 2009)

Mike458877 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mike458877 said:
> ...


I'm not going to spend my time typing a personalized response to you when you're perfectly capable of reading pages upon pages of what I've already written on the subject. I'm sorry if you were under the mistaken impression that I care about what you think.


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## rightwinger (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



Buddy..

We just don't know yet. Like I said we will know more shortly. "Allah Akbar" could just be a scream that someone going to meet his maker would make.


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## franko (Nov 7, 2009)

You can bet that the Right will try and turn this man who was clearly suffering from some kind of psychosis, into some flaming Islamic terrorist.  And all based on his name.  Just as many have tried to claim that President Obama is a Muslim and a danger to the country because of his name and his tolerance for and support of the Muslim people.

Their day is almost over and their fake sense of "Amerika!" will finally be behind us, at last.

This guy is just a very sick man.  It happens.  WWhat is a shame is that they give these people GUNS.  Then they want to blame those who use them, for having used them to do exactly what they were designed to do.

Listen I would disarm the US Military just based on the redneck factor alone, which is mostly a joke, but hoenstly, these people are often very emotionally torn up and to arm then with high powered guns and just insane.

Ft Hood and all those soldiers didnt' do a thing to stop 911.  They don't need those guns, disarm them and save everyone a lot of trouble.  They killed a million Iraqis who didn't do a damn thing to the US and now after 8 years they want to send in more of them into Afghanitan to kill more innocent people.  

I'm telling you, when you take kids, arm them and send them to kill other kids who didn't do anything except try and defend themselves, theyre going to go crazy a fair percentage of the time.


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## Kalam (Nov 7, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Kalem is white. Kalem is a moslem not.


You are an idiot.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 7, 2009)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalem is white. Kalem is a moslem not.
> ...



He is also a racist


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## Kalam (Nov 7, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



The two things usually go hand-in-hand.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 7, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> Secular meaning, he is not very religious, has no problem with other religions, cares more about country than religion, doesn't hate another specifically because their religion, is tolerant and above all believes in separation of Church/Mosque and State!



In other words, he is not a muslim

and has NO problem killing his own people.  

Yea, he is a cool guy


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## GHook93 (Nov 7, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Secular meaning, he is not very religious, has no problem with other religions, cares more about country than religion, doesn't hate another specifically because their religion, is tolerant and above all believes in separation of Church/Mosque and State!
> ...



That is below the belt your arrogant bastard!


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## CurveLight (Nov 7, 2009)

If hasan openly admits he did it in retaliation for our occupations in iraq and afghanistan does everyone realize he would be giving a more honest reason than what the bush admin gave?  

(for the champions of distraction........no......that would not justify what he did.  I'm simply pointing out how our imperialism is removing the ability to distinguish between fanatics and those responding to our military actions in the same way.....except hasan didn't kill any civilians)


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## franko (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> If hasan openly admits he did it in retaliation for our occupations in iraq and afghanistan does everyone realize he would be giving a more honest reason than what the bush admin gave?
> 
> (for the champions of distraction........no......that would not justify what he did.  I'm simply pointing out how our imperialism is removing the ability to distinguish between fanatics and those responding to our military actions in the same way.....except hasan didn't kill any civilians)



If it were the case, that would be so true.  Hasan is just a disturbed human being.  He is mentally ill and when it is all said and done, we will probably learn that Hasan is probably closer to a political Conservative.  He probably voted for Bush in the first Administration; probably stands against gay rights, women's rights.  He likely has a poor opinion of people of color.  He is simply crazy.   And the worst part is that it is the crazy people who are usually found protesting the sharing of the wealth they stole and for the right to shoot up those who have a different opinion than they have.

But it shouldn't be news to anyone that Conservatives are why Ft Hood came to that disaster, why 9-11 came to America and the 'why' behind most of the problems we have.


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## JenyEliza (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> If hasan openly admits he did it in retaliation for our occupations in iraq and afghanistan does everyone realize he would be giving a more honest reason than what the bush admin gave?
> 
> (for the champions of distraction........no......that would not justify what he did.  I'm simply pointing out how our imperialism is removing the ability to distinguish between fanatics and those responding to our military actions in the same way.....except hasan didn't kill any civilians)



Oh please.


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## JenyEliza (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> If hasan openly admits he did it in retaliation for our occupations in iraq and afghanistan does everyone realize he would be giving a more honest reason than what the bush admin gave?
> 
> (for the champions of distraction........no......that would not justify what he did.  I'm simply pointing out how our imperialism is removing the ability to distinguish between fanatics and those responding to our military actions in the same way.....except hasan didn't kill any civilians)



Actually, your pal Hassan DID kill a civilian.  I'm not sure why you would even make some "exception" for Hassan that he "didn't kill any civilians".   What difference does that make whether he killed civilians or not?  They're still just as DEAD.

Here's the entire list of his victims:



> Saturday, November 7, 2009, 04:05 PM
> 
> Fort Hood officials this afternoon released the official list of those killed in Thursdays shooting. Eleven of the names had become public previously.
> 
> ...


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## franko (Nov 7, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > If hasan openly admits he did it in retaliation for our occupations in iraq and afghanistan does everyone realize he would be giving a more honest reason than what the bush admin gave?
> ...



What does that mean?  What is it about the self righteous that allows them to feel that an actual, valid opinion can be expressed thru a outstretched finger?

What are you saying?  Or will you now assault my account with negative reputation points because I expressed an opinion different from yours, as your fascist Redneck comrades have done? 

Why must you people be so determined to suppress people with whom you're incapable of debating.  

What is it about the simple fact, that if you don't have the means to debate a point, that you lose the point, which means that despite your feelings, you have proven yourself wrong by your failure to bring a valid point.

Just once I wish I could find someone of you variety who could offer a sound argument in this competition of ideas.  Must it always result in the ****** being lynched?  Why is it that when we bring the better idea we must be beaten because you didn't think of it first?


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



That is not even remotely akin to making yourself clear.  You are fluent in babble and gibberish.

I am quite indifferent to your attempt to deflect. 

You have quite clearly established that you are without ANY tools to engage in meaningful debate.

And you make silly claims unsupported by facts out of some urgent need to engage in your polemic positions.  

You are an assclown and I look forward to exposing you as the fraud you are, whenever we cross paths.

And that will be fun.  And easy.  You are just a clown.  An assclown.

Mock ya later, douchey.


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## RadiomanATL (Nov 7, 2009)

I see bright red starbursts in someone's future.


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

RadiomanATL said:


> I see bright red starbursts in someone's future.



Maybe.

Uhm -- what means this "red starburst" thang?


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 7, 2009)

franko said:


> You can bet that the Right will try and turn this man who was clearly suffering from some kind of psychosis, into some flaming Islamic terrorist. And all based on his name. Just as many have tried to claim that President Obama is a Muslim and a danger to the country because of his name and his tolerance for and support of the Muslim people.
> 
> Their day is almost over and their fake sense of "Amerika!" will finally be behind us, at last.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/94136-was-it-a-drug-reaction.html


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## Liability (Nov 7, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Partial credit.  It remains true, as I correctly noted, that it is POSSIBLE that Hassan was just a fucking nutbar.  But it is unlikely.  

That we do not yet KNOW for sure doesn't alter the truth value of my contention regarding which is the more likely answer.  It is far more likely that this is no mere set of coincidences, regardless of *how urgently you wish to cling to that kind of wishful thinking*.

Allah Akbar is *not* just some overused random phrase.  It has meaning when used in a specific context --such as the fact that he was just about to start killing people.


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## Coyote (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



Actually, FBI investigators aren't sure Hasan really did say those words before he started shooting - they haven't been able to confirm it.  It may just be that in the mayhem of the moment, some of the people imagined it.


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## Annie (Nov 7, 2009)

Coyote said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Indeed. We all know how gullible those in the military are, after all, they didn't study enough to get into 'college' like Kerry said. Whoops, except those that shoot others? Yep, all those with advanced degrees are murdering terrorists. Um hum.


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## Coyote (Nov 7, 2009)

Annie said:


> Indeed. We all know how gullible those in the military are, after all, they didn't study enough to get into 'college' like Kerry said. Whoops, except those that shoot others? Yep, all those with advanced degrees are murdering terrorists. Um hum.



Got a bigass chip on your shoulder eh?

The FBI said it is unable to _confirm_ that he said that (guess the FBI must be a bunch of idiots too).  Which quite likely means that a good number of witness' did NOT hear him yell any such thing (oops, guess that portion of the military must be the retard portion).

Or, maybe - you don't really care about accuracy here since that might interfere with your conclusions that it's just another Muslim rather than your average nutter?


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...


 


*You mean like *​ 
*"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!"*​ 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dryBNYaj1sA"]YouTube - praise the lord and pass the ammunition[/ame]​


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## mdn2000 (Nov 7, 2009)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > If folks can say its not a majority they should at least be able to say how many.
> ...



Only a 100,000,000 people are radical, backwards, terrorist Moslems. 

That aint too bad, and yet we can all say this man in not one and out of a 100,000,000 terrorists there are no Moslem terrorists in the USA. 

FBI, the FBI could not figure out 9/11 was coming when they had the terrorists in custody, I doubt they can figure out what happened here, especially considering who gives orders to the FBI


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## Yukon (Nov 8, 2009)

American Political Corectness has GONE MAD.

This wack-job Muslim was known to be just that - *CRAZY.* Officers knew it but refused to report him officially because they *FEARED* being labeled anti-*MUSLIM !*


*IDIOTS ! *You are getting what you asked for. Your *NEGRO *and *MUSLIM *wackjobs get preferential treatment - they take your jobs, they take your place in University, they get promoted ahead of you, etc. etc. and you sit there like *TRAINED SHEEP and do NOTHING !!!!*


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## RadiomanATL (Nov 8, 2009)

Yukon said:


> American Political Corectness has GONE MAD.
> 
> This wack-job Muslim was known to be just that - *CRAZY.* Officers knew it but refused to report him officially because they *FEARED* being labeled anti-*MUSLIM !*
> 
> ...



So yer saying that we better report you?


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Annie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




This is a pattern all too common from the far right.  Collectively, if we looked at 500 post from you and your ilk I would be surprised if we could find 50 where you didn't put words into others' mouths.  The best you can do is leave childish remarks with the rep button and put words in others' mouths.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > If hasan openly admits he did it in retaliation for our occupations in iraq and afghanistan does everyone realize he would be giving a more honest reason than what the bush admin gave?
> ...




I'm not making any exceptions.  If this issue causes an emotional overload that retards simple dialogue it may be best to take a break.  Hasan chose to kill when there were other available options.  His attack is morally no different than what we have done in iraq.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...





You just confessed insecurity runs your life.


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Oh good;  ameteur psychology.  Another area in which you lack skills, persuasivness, talent or rationality.

No, stupid.  I said nothijng about me when I made observations about you.  You silly ineffectual little assclown.

It would be funny to have you try to explain  how the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution addresses ANYTHING about our Federal Gov't actions.


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

Coyote said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Of course.  It was probably some other guy yelling out "Allah Akbar!" just before HAssan started shooting people on a U.S. Military base in Texas....


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




The SC is about 200 years old and its original purpose was to prevent States from bypassing Federal laws.  Since then it has been applied in broader scope, such as international treaties.

As for your accidental confession, don't shoot the messenger.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




You got a link confirming he said it?


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Hasan's rampage should be considered a hate crime at the least, a terrorist attack at most. 
It was, without doubt, ideologically driven. I'm not quite sure what the fuss about that is all about. 
    I am just as sure, however, that the rigors of being a Muslim in today's Army, to include the wars we fight harassment he received, had LOTS to do with what happened last week. Someone mentioned other officers were afraid of being labled anti Muslim. I AM an officer in the Army and I assure you that concept is akin to a Klansman being worried about his degree of racial / religious tolerance. 
    No excuse to murder soldiers we&#8217;re sworn to lead let alone protect, but definitely contributory. Ignorance of this reality is inattention to detail we can not afford. 
Just ask anyone at Hood&#8230;&#8230;


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## rightwinger (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



Yes, he was just about to start killing people and fully expected to be killed in the process. By yelling Allah Akbar, he may have been acknowledging he was about to meet his maker and not specifically acknowledging he was doing it for Allah

At this point, we do not know if he was doing it because he was a Muslim or happened to be a Muslim who was doing it.

So far, no evidence linking him to a specific group has been released


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Why the Need to go out of your way to Defend him?...



peace...


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



He most certainly has been linked to specific groups.  The U.S. Military.  Islam.  There's two right there.

Beyond that, I did not argue or even imply that he belonged to an organized group of Jihadists.  It remains quite possible that he doesn't belong to any such group. So what?   This would not necessarily dilute his motivation; and *that* still looks like it might have been some twisted version of Islamism.


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



No.  Why?  Eye- (and ear-) witness accounts mean little to you in your open-minded way, DarklyBent?


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

More from the Washington Post on the REAL Victim of these Shootings:

Alleged Fort Hood shooter's lonely life - Washington Post- msnbc.com

The lonely life of alleged Fort Hood shooter
He was mistreated. He didn't have nobody. He was all alone, says neighbor

By Philip Rucker 

updated 2:39 a.m. MT, Sun., Nov . 8, 2009
KILLEEN, TEX. - About 9 a.m. Thursday, Maj. Nidal M. Hasan walked over to see a neighbor in his aging apartment building here on the edge of downtown. He had come to say goodbye. 

The two occasionally would sit together in plastic chairs beneath a wind chime on the landing outside her second-floor apartment, she recalled. She was Christian and he was Muslim, but they shared coffee and talked about God. But this morning, Hasan said that he would be deploying to Afghanistan soon and that he did not want to go. He gave her a copy of the Koran. 

"I'm going to do good work for God," he told her. ...

"Everyone else just sat down there and drunk their beer and looked at him and giggled at him," the woman said, starting to cry. "They just would laugh at him when he walked down with his Muslim clothes. . . . He was mistreated. He didn't have nobody. He was all alone. He went to his apartment there and was all alone." 

---

Nice Job, WashPost.

And I will add this Question...

Did these Liberal Rags Look to Excuse McVeigh?... Understand his Motivations?... Wonder if he was Picked on?...



peace...


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Malcontent, 
       A problem exists within our military and within our society. No matter how much you wish it were not the case, there are those who are not like you, yet choose to serve anyway. Let's not consider the moral ramifications for a moment. Speaking purely from the basis of intelligence operations, prejudice against Muslims in the military is just a bad idea. 
          Try n' think of that when you make comparisons to McVey and Nichols. Just what are you trying to accomplish ? 
Curious.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 8, 2009)

I have no problems with Muslims serving in the military.

I have a problem with Muslims who voice loudly their opposition to serving if they happen to be fighting AlQuaid & the Taliban being forced to serve out their time.

The Army shot itself in the foot, literally, when it chose to do that. They should have booted him out, dishonorable discharge.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Malcontent,
> A problem exists within our military and within our society. No matter how much you wish it were not the case, there are those who are not like you, yet choose to serve anyway. Let's not consider the moral ramifications for a moment. Speaking purely from the basis of intelligence operations, prejudice against Muslims in the military is just a bad idea.
> Try n' think of that when you make comparisons to McVey and Nichols. Just what are you trying to accomplish ?
> Curious.



Noob... You don't Know me and you have only Posted (3) Times on this Forum... (2) of which have been Directed at me as if you do Know me.

The last one I Commented on your were Painfully Ignorant in your Conclusion.

Try again.



peace...


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I have no problems with Muslims serving in the military.
> 
> I have a problem with Muslims who voice loudly their opposition to serving if they happen to be fighting AlQuaid & the Taliban being forced to serve out their time.
> 
> The Army shot itself in the foot, literally, when it chose to do that. They should have booted him out, dishonorable discharge.



I Concur.



peace...


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

On what grounds, Allie ? 
     Processing someone out is not as easy as deciding that you don't like how they think. Which UCMJ article do you refer to ? Article 88 maybe (Contempt towards officials). Good luck with that can of worm, as it is terribly popular to bash Obama in today's military. Article 104 ( aiding the enemy) ? Where the proof ?


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Malcontent, 
     Amusing, you assume a level of intellect simply because you got here first. I'd ask you to lemme know how that's working out for you, but it's plain to see it isn't.
       I ask you the same questions I ask Allie, given your concurrence; how would YOU have processed Hasan out....especially after he had just made O4.
     Standing by......


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## AllieBaba (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> On what grounds, Allie ?
> Processing someone out is not as easy as deciding that you don't like how they think. Which UCMJ article do you refer to ? Article 88 maybe (Contempt towards officials). Good luck with that can of worm, as it is terribly popular to bash Obama in today's military. Article 104 ( aiding the enemy) ? Where the proof ?



I don't think it's that hard, when someone is posting fanatic crap on messageboards, proclaiming that suicide bombers are heroes, and trying to convert war veterans with PTSD to Islam, coupled with the fact that the guy tried repeatedly to get out and had in fact hired an attorney to help him get out.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




That means no, you do not have a link giving confirmation.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Malcontent,
> Amusing, you assume a level of intellect simply because you got here first. I'd ask you to lemme know how that's working out for you, but it's plain to see it isn't.
> I ask you the same questions I ask Allie, given your concurrence; how would YOU have processed Hasan out....especially after he had just made O4.
> Standing by......



You have Unfinished Business on my Thread about the NYT... Specifically about your Ignorance of the Subject matter and Inability to Recognize Deliberate Sarcasm.

You don't Instruct a Damned thing here.

Carry on.



peace...


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > On what grounds, Allie ?
> ...



Yep...



peace...


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Curve, 
The eyewitness accounts of 'allahu akbar' were public knowledge the day of the shooting. LTG Cone even put it out. 
        Not sure why it matters so much, but there it is.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> More from the Washington Post on the REAL Victim of these Shootings:
> 
> Alleged Fort Hood shooter's lonely life - Washington Post- msnbc.com
> 
> ...




There is a big difference between excusing behavior and trying to understand it.  But if the only tool one owns then of course all problems will look like a nail.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Curve,
> The eyewitness accounts of 'allahu akbar' were public knowledge the day of the shooting. LTG Cone even put it out.
> Not sure why it matters so much, but there it is.



It matters as much if not MORE than the Hearsay the New York Times Decided to Run on the Front Page within 24 Hours of the Rampage that he was "Harassed"...



peace...


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > More from the Washington Post on the REAL Victim of these Shootings:
> ...



There is PLENTY of Time through the Process to "Understand"...

The Bodies weren't even Cold and the NYT was Digging for Excuses for this Guy, and then Inking them within 24 Hours...

It's Shameless... But that's the NYT.



peace...


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Why does it bug you so much that coverage of Hasan's harrassment exists, Malcontent ? 
    What's wrong with that ?


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




If he did it in response to our occupations in the middle east then whatever label you give him must also be applied to America.


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Wrong again.

Whatever motivated his depraved Islamist violence, _*if*_ its roots are found in his "Islamic" beliefs, then there is nothing to be "applied to America" -- whatever the fuck that spew might mean.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Why does it bug you so much that coverage of Hasan's harrassment exists, Malcontent ?
> What's wrong with that ?



Again... You are NOT Taking in ALL Information before Reacting...

The NYT's Inked that the AM AFTER the Shooting...

At the same time, they Ignored the other Evidence they Certainly Had in Pocket, like his Handing out Qurans and what he "Allegedly" said as he was going on the Rampage.

It's NOT a Matter of NEVER Discussing the Possibilities of "Motivation", it's the Haste that the New York Times Predictably went to Front Page with, while Ignoring the other "Motivating" Factors.

It is NOT Impossible that Islam Motivated him to do this either... And there is Evidence that it did...

The NYT Ignored it in Favor of Making him out to be a Victim...

As the WashPost is Continuing to do.

As is the MO for these Liberal Rags.

When there was NO Evidence of our Soldiers Flushing Qurans, what did Newsweak do?...

Made the Enemy out to be the Victims by saying it ANYWAY, and a LOT of Blood was Shed over that Lie.

There is a Consistent Pattern with the Liberal Mainstream Press in the US, and this is just MORE of it.



peace...


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...





Those of us who denounce our occupations in iraq and afghanistan and condemn what hasan did are consistent but those who condemn hasan but support the occupations are guilty of hypocrisy.  

Here you (and cohorts) are automatically subscribing Islam as the main culprit while info necessary for that conclusion is absent.  That basically means your camps don't give a fuck about accurate information and in unison you will sing with eyes shut and ears plugged because the only thing that matters is your agenda.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



If you Dismiss Islam's Possible Motivation in this, then it is YOU who are not being Honest.



peace...


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## AllieBaba (Nov 8, 2009)

Curve, take that post and change "you" and "your" to "me" and "my" and you've got it right.


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

No, not this time. I hear you lima charlie......I'm questioning you as to why. 
      Surely you realize the media is a business. NYT and WP put out what sells, just like Faux News does. Nothing wrong in making a buck, I guess. 
      It is that in this instance, the Times has it right. He WAS harrassed, this has be corraborated with multiple sources. I think you know that too. 
      I'm asking why that coverage bothers you. Is it simply more comfortable for you to ignore the reality of Muslim service in the US military than to deal with the fact that the US prejudice may be part of what helped to kill us last week at Ft. Hood ?


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Curve, take that post and change "you" and "your" to "me" and "my" and you've got it right.



Ed Zachary.



peace...


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## AllieBaba (Nov 8, 2009)

Who corroborated it?


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > Why does it bug you so much that coverage of Hasan's harrassment exists, Malcontent ?
> ...





There it is.  Pulling out the ole' librul press card!


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > Cyborgmudhen said:
> ...



With Substance... Which of course Most of what you are Posting is Lacking in.



peace...


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



I'm not dismissing any motivation.  What I am doing is pointing out we are guilty of killing and wounding well over a hundred thousand people so if hasan says he did it in response to our optional wars then the claim Islam is responsible is a moot point.  You would have no way to surgically rearrange the facts to support the charge this is Islam's fault while ignoring the deaths we are responsible for.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 8, 2009)

Still waiting to hear who it was that corroborated that the shooter was being harassed for his faith.

Most likely he was harassed for being a loony tune. And his looney toonishness happened to exist in the form of supporting radical Islamists. Not the wisest course when you're counseling people who have fought that group.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



Looks like you define substance only how many words are typed.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Islam is Responsible for a LOT of Blood... Specifically Innocent Blood... Targeting the Innoncent OFF of the Battlefield and Hiding behind them on it.

This is the Standard, from Pakistan to the West Bank...

At the Same Time, in the Name of Allah, the Systems of Government like that in Iran, Routinely Execute Innocent People over Simple Claims of Infidelity and Homosexuality.

I don't Play the Politically Correct Games with Westernized "Muslims" that Islam isn't the Root of MANY of the Problems around the Globe.

It's NOT "All" of them, but it is almost ALL Terrorism that is Done by them.

This War Started 30 Years Ago when the President of Iraq now was in on the Hostage Taking...

We have just Recently Woken to this War, and have now Drifted back to Sleep.

That Mistake will have Repercusions.



peace...


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Still waiting to hear who it was that corroborated that the shooter was being harassed for his faith.
> 
> Most likely he was harassed for being a loony tune. And his looney toonishness happened to exist in the form of supporting radical Islamists. Not the wisest course when you're counseling people who have fought that group.



It was on the Front Page of the New York Times... It's Fact... Even though it was Hearsay while the Bodies were still Warm.

He's the Real Vicitm here, Allie...

Wake up!



peace...


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Curve, 
It's not Islam's 'fault'. While contributory, it's not 'society's fault either. 
This massacre was the decision of one coward. 
It's hard to believe you can't see that.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Curve,
> It's not Islam's 'fault'. While contributory, it's not 'society's fault either.
> This massacre was the decision of one coward.
> It's hard to believe you can't see that.



It Concerns me that you do Attribute some of the Blame on Society while Appearing to Negate Islam Entirely.



peace...


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...




None of that is relevant to this discussion.  You're simply someone who does not care about anything but your agenda against muslims.  The only question I have is this: when you lose a sock in the dryer how do you blame Islam?


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

That's no mistake. 
    Islam is a religion, just like Christianity. It's all about values. Some of faith, regardless of who they call 'Allah/God' are of the most noble I've ever met.....some are the most evil. 
      Our society, however, is built on prejudice; has been for years and will be long after I'm gone. The value of reasoning, and compassion has been supplanted by a spectator sport mentality best suited for football / basketball, etc. The DIRECT result of this is isolation of people based on nothing more than who they pray to, where they are from, and what they look like. 
                      There are consequences for this.


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## mal (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Lack the Ability to Counter Substance much, Troll?...

Go Pester someone else, your Time with me is Done.



peace...


----------



## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

"None of that is relevant to this discussion. You're simply someone who does not care about anything but your agenda against muslims. The only question I have is this: when you lose a sock in the dryer how do you blame Islam?"

Curve, 

It's not Islam's fault.....BUT to ignore the roles of Islamofascism, the wars we fight, the attitudes we (soldiers) carry, and the resultant mess is disingenuous at best. 

I applaud your efforts to show that it's not the fault of a single religion, but your situational awareness is lacking, at best.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Curve,
> It's not Islam's 'fault'. While contributory, it's not 'society's fault either.
> This massacre was the decision of one coward.
> It's hard to believe you can't see that.



I never said it was society's fault.  I've never said anyone but him was responsible for his own actions.


----------



## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Pretty speech.  Pretty meaningless, that is.

Why would your claim be "true?"  There is nothing about the engagements (*not* "occupations" as you propagandistically put it so dishonestly) in Iraq or in Afghanistan that has any fucking bearing on the evil perpetrated by Hassan.  One can easily support our actions in Iraq and/or in Afghanistan while condemning the evil perpetrated by Hassan without being guilty of "hypocrisy."  Your use of the term is meaningless.    There is simply NO connection between the two concepts.  

YOU *aren't* consistent.  You are just engaging in some moderately consistent form of polemic.  So what?  That you have your beliefs does not make you consistent.  Since there is no connection between your opposition to our engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan on the one hand and your apologetics for Hassan on the other hand, you are just being a tool.



CurveLight said:


> Here you (and cohorts) are automatically subscribing Islam as the main culprit while info necessary for that conclusion is absent.



Actually, this brings into serious doubt either your reading comprhension skills or your honesty.

The FACT is that I have steadfastly declined (very explicitly) to "blame" Islam as the culprit.  On the other hand, unlike you and your stupid ilk, I am quite content to at least verbalize the notion that there indeed MIGHT be a connection between what Hassan allegedly did and some extreme fucked-up version of Islamist ideology.  Oh nosies!  That might be too close to the border of being _politicially incorrect_.  To you and your stupid ilk:  We *  mustn't    * ever  *  speak  *  the  *  truth  *   so  *    bluntly.   Fuck you.



CurveLight said:


> That basically means your camps don't give a fuck about accurate information and in unison you will sing with eyes shut and ears plugged because the only thing that matters is your agenda.



No, stupid.  What it DOES mean is that unlike you and your ideologically "pure" stupid-ass ilk, I am not afraid (and most rational people are not afraid) to explore the notion that SOMETIMES appearances are not deceiving.

You are apparently too fucking stupid to understand it, but some of your stupid ilk might not be quite as thick as you, so I will repeat what I said before.   The alleged gunman did what he did *under circumstances* which suggest a very real possibility that he had the motives associated with radical Islamist Jihadist ideology.   You have my permission to remain ideologically "pure" in some mindless PC way, but that doesn't change the fact that (a) noting the possible connection is _*not*_ the same thing as making it an accusation (at least not yet) and (b) the possible connection IS apparent.  And, hopefully, we will all soon find out one way or the other.


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

'K, Curve. 
   Thx for the clarification. 
"What I am doing is pointing out we are guilty of killing and wounding well over a hundred thousand people so if hasan says he did it in response to our optional wars then the claim Islam is responsible is a moot point. "
      ...seemed non sequitur. What did you mean by the above ?


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> "None of that is relevant to this discussion. You're simply someone who does not care about anything but your agenda against muslims. The only question I have is this: when you lose a sock in the dryer how do you blame Islam?"
> 
> Curve,
> 
> ...




Someone who uses the term "islamofascism" is not in a position to say someone else is lacking situational awareness. The wars we are fighting right now are optional.  Where's the awareness in pretending they are necessary?  As for the term....it is meant to denote religious fanatics using violence to try and enforce their theologies thus ultimately seeking theocracies.  Do you know what Mussolini said? He said "the foundation of fascism is the conception of the State."  That means it is absolutely impossible for "islamofascism" to be sensible in any form.  In Fascism the highest power is the State and not God or any religion.  Obviously it is God and not the State that is the ultimate authority in the minds of religious fanatics.  As such, "islamofascism" can best translated as "a neato sounding self contained contradiction that sends the message that people who use it do not understand the core concept of Fascism."


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > "None of that is relevant to this discussion. You're simply someone who does not care about anything but your agenda against muslims. The only question I have is this: when you lose a sock in the dryer how do you blame Islam?"
> ...



Actually, those of you (and your fellow stupid ilk) who like to claim (as you just stupidly did) that there is anything wrong about using the term "Islamofascism" are 

stupid.

Similarly stupid, of course, is your mindless use of the phrase "optional war."

You might actually BE retarded.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...




Your non-sequitur did nothing to address the point one cannot condemn hasan and support our occupations of other nations without being guilty of hypocrisy.  What happened at Ft Hood was not a terrorist act by definition. You can't label any and all shootings as "terrorism" just because you want to reveal your bigotry towards islam.


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Curve, 
  "That means it is absolutely impossible for "islamofascism" to be sensible in any form. In Fascism the highest power is the State and not God or any religion. " 
   Tell it to the Mutawwa'în.
Lemme know how that 'religion vs. state' arguement turns out for you...if able. When Allah IS the state your premise winds up in little pieces all about you. Again, situational awareness. 
    Not all of the wars we currently fight are optional, incidentally. Sadly, as a country it seems, we don't seem to know which should be fought and which we should discontinue........


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
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> > Cyborgmudhen said:
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Your reasoning is awesome!  Wow!  The way you countered the info in that post with a well thought out response was just amazing!  Do you a class on how to do that?


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
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Your glaring hypocrisy is also awesome.  I "countered" your simplistic bombastic statement which YOU were perfectly willing to pronounce with NBO substantiation.  but when the rebuttal is JUST as devoid of substantiation, THAT'S when it matters to you.

You hypocrites are all the same.

Besides, others here have already addressed the ignorance of your stupid position regarding "Islamofascism."  It is not my fault that you are incapable of learning.   Educably mentally retarded, that's you.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
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Religious fanatics view God as the highest authority.

Fascism views the State as the highest authority.

It's a pretty clear contradiction because you can't have atheism and a religion as both the highest authority.


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
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If a "Nation" is premised on the notion that God or Allah is the highest authority, and its laws are predicated on a particular religion's "rules,"  then such a theocracy can indeed be a fascist state.

Too bad you didn't take the suggestion made earlier (in the post by Cyborgmudhen); if you had done so, you wouldn't keep looking like such a complete imbecile, now.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
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If a nation is based on God as the highest authority then it is a Theocracy.


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## The T (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
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> > CurveLight said:
> ...


 
Quite a dichotomy you seem to pose when BOTH beliefs are OK in this country as long as you don't try to IMPOSE those beliefs upon others by infringing upon the rights of either to belive what they will...

Now? What was your point again?


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## The T (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
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> > CurveLight said:
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Then such a Government becomes a _Fascist STATE_, does it not? Is that what you are saying when it comes to This country? Is this an admonishon of the Founders when they chose to keep the Government's NOSE out of it, and prohibit that Government from making any LAW based upon religion?

Is that what you FEAR this Republic will become? Here we are 200+ years later after the death of the Founders, but we aren't there.

WHAT indeed IS your point?  What IS your fear? What ARE you babbling about?


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

A totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life. The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini , who ruled Italy from 1922 until the Italian defeat in World War II. However, it has also been applied to similar ideologies in other countries, e.g., to National Socialism in Germany and to the regime of Francisco Franco in Spain.
Fascism definition, origins, characteristics, fascist state, corporative state



*


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## The T (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> A totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life. The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini , who ruled Italy from 1922 until the Italian defeat in World War II. However, it has also been applied to similar ideologies in other countries, e.g., to National Socialism in Germany and to the regime of Francisco Franco in Spain.
> Fascism definition, origins, characteristics, fascist state, corporative state
> 
> 
> ...


OK...I understand the point...but what or whom were you specifically speaking?

Let me ask you? Is Iran a Theocracy? Is it LOADED with Fascists? Is it filled with totalinarism? Do you FEAR that the United States could become such a place? (By whatever means)?

Does Iran or other such place Have A Constitution that prohibits such things UNLESS by amendment or the people shirk their duty as citizens an ALLOW it to happen backdoor by their lack of responsibility?


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

The T said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
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> > Liability said:
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No, a Theocracy does not become a fascist state.  No, I do not fear our republic becoming a theocracy.

I've been pointing out why "islamofascism" is a contradiction and nonsensical term.


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## The T (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> The T said:
> 
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> > CurveLight said:
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I FAIL to see the contradiction when so many stories have come out with people over there being thrown in JAIL for voicing their opinion or even killed for it.

Are you SURE you want to take this stance?


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
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Yes.  I know.  It is your suppressed (and absurd and baseless) premise that a theocracy cannot be a fascist state.

I say you are flatly wrong and will never under any circumstances ever be able to support your position.

By contrast, I rebut you by making the exact opposite claim:  there is no reason why some absolutist form of theocracy cannot be a fascist state.

Now, since you are the proponent of your silly contention, you have the burden.  SO, proceed to explain and demonstrate that because a state is theocratic it is incapable of being a fascist state.

Go.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

The T said:


> CurveLight said:
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Saudi Arabia is a Theocracy.  When the Mutawwa'in made schoolgirls burn to death their reason was following Sharia Law.
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue
(don't it make ya feel all warm and fuzzy knowing SA is one of our closest allies?)


That is not Fascism.  The two systems may have some similarities in how ridiculously strict they apply rules and laws but to say a Theocracy is a "fascist" state is to demonstrate ignorance.  If someone is thrown in jail for voicing an opinion nobody can automatically say it was because of a Fascist State.  One must first look at what type of government it has.  In Iraq, we have set up an Islamic Theocracy and this has put women in a poor position. They now have less freedom than when Saddam was there but it is not because of a Fascist State....it is because of a Theocracy.


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
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If a State is Theocratic it is impossible to simultaneously be a Fascist State because if God is the highest authority then the State cannot be.  Please look above and read the link that defines Fascism.


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
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Wrong, as I knew you would be.

It is your extremely weak and severely limited comprehension of the meaning of "fascist" that is undermining your ability to address the question.

You might want to START (not finish, mind you; just START) by getting yourself familiar with the actual political defintion*s* of "fascism."   There are many and they do not all agree with each other.

But if one goes to the liberoidal bible known as Wiki (the wiki dictionary, for example) one may find a useful point of departure:  





> A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights.


  See: Wiktionary, the free dictionary

There is *NO* valid logical or rational reason to exclude a totalitarian, ideolgically based centralized government having governmental control over business, etc *that is based on RELIGION.*  In fact, such a theocratic state, by definition, DOES tend to "exalt" religion over individual rights....


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## CurveLight (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
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You seem to have ignored the link above that both defines and gives the history of Fascism and you want to point to wiki? Lol


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
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> > CurveLight said:
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Sorry silly child, but as I correctly and sagely noted, not all definitions agree with each other.

You are married to just one because it says what you wnat for it to say.

So, we learn that you lack objectivity.

No news in that.

Fascism, once again, has a multitude of meanings.  And while I often mock Wikie (for good reason), it can be an ok point of departure.

Your desired definition of fascism is WAY too limited and it's not generally accepted and it is basically in error.

You might want to start by taking a peek outside our own closed mind:



> fas·cism (fshzm)
> n.
> 1. often Fascism
> a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
> ...


 fascism - definition of fascism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Then, perhaps, you can graduate to the Encyclopedia Britannica: 



> politics
> Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the states authority, and harsh suppression of dissent.


 fascism (politics) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

And once again we see NOTHING that requires that the totalitarian nature not be BASED on a particular religion.  There is nothing in ANY valid definition that says a theocracy cannot be fascist, as we see with the fucking Taliban, for example.

In short, as already pointed out to you, just because your "mind" is firmly welded shut does NOT mean that you are correct or that you have the capacity to meaningfully defend your position.

You remain a singular failure.

Thank me.  Thank me very much.


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## Coyote (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> Coyote said:
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Of course.  Or, maybe no one yelled it, at all.  There was a lot of misinformation in the beginning - 1 shooter, 2 then 3 then 1 again.  Who it was - was he military etc etc.  Systematically, they can track down the details.  All I'm saying is they've been unable to confirm that he - or anyone - yelled "Allah Akbar".

Too bad when facts get in the way of an old fashioned lynching.


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## Liability (Nov 8, 2009)

Coyote said:


> Liability said:
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Facts?  You mean like when you speculate that ear-witnesses maybe didn't hear what they said they heard when they were there at that time and you and I weren't?

Those kind of "facts?"


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## AllieBaba (Nov 8, 2009)

I think it's been established he was yelling Allahu Akbar when he was blowing holes into peoples' heads.

The rest, there's always misinformation at the beginning of a situation like this, when they haven't yet apprehended the dude. It's signinficant of nothing.


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Curve, 

      We'll have to agree to disagree. Your degree of comfort in playing with words while ignoring reality, while sorta amusing, is also a bit scary. 

Coyote, 
     Just what is it that YOU know about lynching ? Curious......


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## The T (Nov 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
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> > Liability said:
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I'm glad that you took the time to put this one to bed, because frankly? I was getting a headache from it. I rarely wade in muddied waters as I had done when I asked if they really wanted to take that stance...but sheesh!

it was getting so convoluted it was getting subliminally comical?

Good form as always.


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## Coyote (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Curve,
> The eyewitness accounts of 'allahu akbar' were public knowledge the day of the shooting. LTG Cone even put it out.
> Not sure why it matters so much, but there it is.



According to this article, Cone could not confirm it:

General Robert Cone, the base commander, said officials had not yet confirmed that the suspected gunman made the comment before the rampage which left 30 people wounded, including Hasan.​


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## Coyote (Nov 8, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Curve,
> 
> We'll have to agree to disagree. Your degree of comfort in playing with words while ignoring reality, while sorta amusing, is also a bit scary.
> 
> ...



I know enough history, and I know how mob mentalities can work - and how quickly people can turn to picking out scapegoats.  That's why I think it's important to be accurate when making claims that can turn people against other people with out thinking things through.  

(But, I was playing fast and loose with the term "lynch mob")


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 8, 2009)

Coyote, 
      No worries, just hadta ask. 
 I appreciate your efforts, actually, to keep the 'mob' mentality from taking over. Any call to think rather than 'join' is one that is worthy to be made ! 
      This time, however, it's pretty cut and dried. 
   Once Hasan is drained of any/ all value as an intel asset, 'it' (as in Hasan) should be immediately killed.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 8, 2009)

Coyote said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > Curve,
> ...



"Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the top commander at Fort Hood, said soldiers at the base have told investigators Maj. Hasan, a Muslim, shouted "Allahu Akbar," Arabic for "God is great," in the attack. One military official at the Pentagon who has been briefed on the investigation said officials are "close to 100%" certain Maj. Hasan authored an Internet posting defending suicide bombings."
Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan Kills 13 in Shooting at Fort Hood Army Base; Suspect in Stable Condition - WSJ.com

I don't know how much more confirmation you need. It's what the soldiers told him.


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## Annie (Nov 9, 2009)

Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News



> Officials: U.S. Aware of Hasan Efforts to Contact al Qaeda
> Army Major in Fort Hood Massacre Used 'Electronic Means' to Connect with Terrorists
> 
> By RICHARD ESPOSITO, MATTHEW COLE and BRIAN ROSS
> ...


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## mal (Nov 9, 2009)

Annie said:


> Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News
> 
> 
> 
> ...



On it with Harmony...



peace...


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
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> > Liability said:
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Once again you completely ignored the link I provided showing the definition and history of the word then you post links and expect me to address those.  Hypocrite much?


Your claim is a theocracy can be fascist because your understanding of the definition of fascism does not exclusively prohibit religion as the primary authority.  You just posted the evidence that killed your argument and you're so desperate to try and appear intelligent that the manifested arrogance has become a blindfold.

Look at this key phrase:

"Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state....."


That is saying what I've been pointing out all along.  In a Fascist  government the State is the primary authority and if the State is the primary authority then by definition no religion can co-exist as the primary authority.  Since the State is glorified above all else it is Secular.  You want to embarrass yourself some more and say a theocracy can be secular?  Rotfl.  


Now that I've addressed the links you provided how about addressing the one I provided showing the def and history of the term?  Nah.....you don't have the integrity nor honesty.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 9, 2009)

Fiddlesticks. Many theocracies are fascist. Middle Eastern countries, for example, where rulers are chosen because of the fact they descend from Mohommed, for example.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

The T said:


> Liability said:
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He posted the evidence he's clueless about Fascism and you're lauding that?  Lol.  It really is fucking simple man.  A theocracy glorifies God as the highest power.  A Fascist state glorifies the state as the highest power.  There are also some other differences...such as in a Fascist State no opposing political parties are allowed and there are no democratic elections.  In a Theocracy such as Iraq or Iran there are different Parties and they do have democratic elections.  Another difference is a Theocracy views the entire earth under the domain of their chosen God and the geographical borders are merely temporary.  However, in a Fascist state the only domain perceived is the land they occupy.  In a theocracy the state religion is given preference over all other religions but in a fascist state all religions are equal.


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## GHook93 (Nov 9, 2009)

If any of you people need any more proof that Hasan was motivated by Islamofacists (aka radical Islam for you slow types) how about the GOVERNMENT knowing he was trying to contact Al Qaeda?



> Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News
> U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.
> It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said.
> 
> ...


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Fiddlesticks. Many theocracies are fascist. Middle Eastern countries, for example, where rulers are chosen because of the fact they descend from Mohommed, for example.




You just described a Theocracy.  Maybe you could brave a half a step beyond "fiddlesticks" and address the info on fascism I provided?  Or do you expect someone to ignore the information like you did and just agree?


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> If any of you people need any more proof that Hasan was motivated by Islamofacists (aka radical Islam for you slow types) how about the GOVERNMENT knowing he was trying to contact Al Qaeda?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Like I said early on.....there's going to be a LOT of shit flying around and it gets worse with rumors.  What does it mean when they say "suspected" alkida members?


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## GHook93 (Nov 9, 2009)

This is not me preaching hate and fear this is me interpreting the facts on the grounds. Facts are he attended radical mosques. Do all mosques preach radicalism, I don't know, but I doubt it. But there are some (many?) that do! Hasan happened to attend one!




> Army shooter's mosque run by Muslim Mafia The suspected Fort Hood terrorist's former *mosque in Maryland is controlled by the radical Muslim Brotherhood, a Saudi-funded worldwide jihadist movement which controls many of the mosques in America. *
> 
> Conventional wisdom holds that Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan "self-radicalized" without any help from the Muslim establishment before allegedly shooting 46 fellow soldiers and security guards, and murdering 13 of them at the sprawling Texas base.
> 
> ...


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## GHook93 (Nov 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > If any of you people need any more proof that Hasan was motivated by Islamofacists (aka radical Islam for you slow types) how about the GOVERNMENT knowing he was trying to contact Al Qaeda?
> ...



I never stated he was an Al Qaeda members! I think he was a lone wolf killer motivated by radical Islam! That is what the facts are proving and its arrogant to argue differently!


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Ghook......you actually cited WND?  Dude...fo' reeeel!


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## GHook93 (Nov 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Ghook......you actually cited WND?  Dude...fo' reeeel!



First, the first quote was ABC!
Second, if you ever read WND you will find out that base their stories on facts and usually break stories very early. They were the ones that broke Rev. Wright months before the mainstream was forced to report on it! The left said the same thing back then! WND is a legit source and a reliable one!


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> CurveLight said:
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Good grief.  Read my post again.  I didn't say you claimed he was in alkida.  I was pointing out the story said he was trying to contact "suspected" alkida members.

As for radical islam.....please....your camp decided it was Islam's fault the first time you heard his name and frankly, you guys seem so excited to link islam it sounds like you're masturbating with one hand and using the other on a google hunt to justify this fucking pathetic bigotry.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> CurveLight said:
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> > Ghook......you actually cited WND?  Dude...fo' reeeel!
> ...



Yes I remember when WND lied about Rev. Wright.  But doesn't it kill your position on wnd by pointing to an example of how they lied?


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## concept (Nov 9, 2009)

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What was the lie about that old racist?


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## GHook93 (Nov 9, 2009)

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Nice weak arguments! When a man with a Muslim name goes out and kills 13 unarmed service men, with his cousin immediately saying that he wanted out of the military after 9/11 and was unhappy with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, YES I am going to jump to conclusions and be justified in doing so!


When Tiller the Baby Killer was killed, did your leftist buddies not jump to the conclusion that the killer was Christian Pro-lifer? Didn't the circumstances dictate that?


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## del (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> CurveLight said:
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> ...






so is prison planet and the onion.


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## GHook93 (Nov 9, 2009)

del said:


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Do you have a man-crush on me? 

Because you troll in every post I go to! 

Again be a man and meet me in the real world!


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## del (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> del said:
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a man crush requires a man as its object, no?

ipso facto i can't have a man crush on you.

thanks for asking, though.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

concept said:


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Lol.  Yeah he's so racist he told a black church member she should marry her white fiance because love is what matters, not skin color.  He's also so racist he helped care for a white president.  Get real.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


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Ummmm.......you just claimed hasan did it because of our occupations in iraq and afghanistan.  That means it wasn't due to islam.


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## xsited1 (Nov 9, 2009)

Check this out!  You can't make this stuff up.



> *President Obama says don't jump to conclusions on Fort Hood shooting *
> President Barack Obama said Friday the entire nation is grieving for those slain at Fort Hood, and he urged people not to jump to conclusions while law enforcement officers investigate the shootings.
> 
> NewsOK





> *While admitting he was not familiar with all the facts in the case*, President Obama on Wednesday took the side of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., saying the Cambridge, Mass., *police "acted stupidly" in arresting him at his home*.
> 
> Obama says cops "acted stupidly" in Gates case


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## Soggy in NOLA (Nov 9, 2009)

Obama is a fool.  Plain and simple.


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## Coyote (Nov 9, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Coyote said:
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I'm just pointing out what the articles say - it can't be confirmed that he said that.  Cone said that.  The FBI said that.  That is what it states.

I'm not arguing that this guy is not an extremist - but people should stick to the facts, not conjecture.  There is a lot of contradictory information and the potential of a back lash against innocent Muslims is strong.  You can see the sentiments on the messageboards.  There are people who actually think putting American citizens who happen to be Muslem in internment camps is a good idea.

One of the few things I admired about President Bush was his deliberate efforts to tone down any anti-muslem sentiments and focus on terrorism not religion.  Obama is doing the same (but of course, they're calling him a Muslim sympathizer).


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## Coyote (Nov 9, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> Check this out!  You can't make this stuff up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like he learned from his previous verbal foot in the mouth.  What's so bad about that?


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## Coyote (Nov 9, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Coyote,
> No worries, just hadta ask.
> I appreciate your efforts, actually, to keep the 'mob' mentality from taking over. Any call to think rather than 'join' is one that is worthy to be made !
> This time, however, it's pretty cut and dried.
> Once Hasan is drained of any/ all value as an intel asset, 'it' (as in Hasan) should be immediately killed.



Thanks 

I don't doubt it's pretty cut and dried but there is a lot of contradictory information out there...I just think it's better to stick to facts, not unverified gossip...but that's just my opinion


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## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> If any of you people need any more proof that Hasan was motivated by Islamofacists (aka radical Islam for you slow types) how about the GOVERNMENT knowing he was trying to contact Al Qaeda?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Didn't the bush-imbecile use tweaked CIA info that said there were WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq, that Hussein had nukes or some shit that could reach New York, and so on? Did they tell (originate) that Gulf of Tonkin LIE, too?

Can't say as I trust spooks, nope, not at all!


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## WillowTree (Nov 9, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> Check this out!  You can't make this stuff up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







I ought to just spank you.. You know perfectly well that libtards have one rule for their behavior and another for yours! Sheeesh!


----------



## Contessa_Sharra (Nov 9, 2009)

Was it ABC news that told us that Gore was Prez, and which MSM bunch ran the Special with "sock-nuts" and the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner?


----------



## Liability (Nov 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> * * * *
> Once again you completely ignored the link * * * *



So, once again, ignoring links and _other_ definitions is reserved only for you.

Good to know.

But then, nobody would ever accuse you of being honest or of having crediblity or integrity or intellectual rigor.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > * * * *
> ...




Why make shit up? I addressed the definitions you provided and showed how your own links fucked up your argument. That's why you ignored all of that to cherry pick one line.

Read up on the Doctrine of Fascism by the guy who created the word.
Mussolini  - THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM


----------



## Liability (Nov 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



I posted several definitions, and unlike you, you dishonest dipshit, I am not relying on one mere strained daffynition.

It is still not my fault that you are too stupid to comprehend that the words you bandy about have actual meaning.

*You have YET to demonstrate that a theocracy cannot be a fascist state.*

And we all see how much you wiggle and bitch and moan and groan and duck and bob and weave...

But you STILL stand exposed as just a dumbass.


----------



## Barb (Nov 9, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Hasan's rampage should be considered a hate crime at the least, a terrorist attack at most.
> It was, without doubt, ideologically driven. I'm not quite sure what the fuss about that is all about.
> I am just as sure, however, that the rigors of being a Muslim in today's Army, to include the wars we fight harassment he received, had LOTS to do with what happened last week. Someone mentioned other officers were afraid of being labled anti Muslim. I AM an officer in the Army and I assure you that concept is akin to a Klansman being worried about his degree of racial / religious tolerance.
> No excuse to murder soldiers were sworn to lead let alone protect, but definitely contributory. Ignorance of this reality is inattention to detail we can not afford.
> Just ask anyone at Hood



 Honestly, I think he snapped, mental breakdown. No matter the rank / level of education / or assumed maturity because of either, none of that precludes the simple fact that pressure busts a pipe, and I think this needs a little simplification. 

Here we have a Middle Eastern male (from Jordan, I think?) charged for how long (?) with counseling outgoing and returning combat troops from....the ME. It wouldn't even have to BE harassment, the sentiments he heard over the years, but because he's a mental health professional, he would be expected to hear it all without judgment or reaction. Maybe his prior problem elsewhere had to do with a reaction, or maybe he tried to redirect the anger away from what the military found a useful target. Who knows? It is a common thing to objectify "the enemy" where war is concerned, as it is much easier to hit center mass when the target is no longer considered human. More of "yours" live that way, and more of "theirs" die. That is the objective of war, no?

So here is this guy, and with all his diplomas and credentials he is, after all just a guy, listening to years of outright hatred of the people who look similar to him, maybe they eat similar foods, and maybe they have similar sympathies to some other people who look like them and struggle with some of the same complexities of life from similar points of departure. But still, people with all those similarities don't share a cookie cutter view.

 I was raised Christian, but Falwell and Roberts (among many others) piss me off. I'm an American, but at least half of other Americans consider liberty to be a wholly different ideal than what I see it to be. Still and all, I wouldn't want my whole family to be tarred with the same brush used to send my brother out on a rail. You may fairly criticize him, but only family is allowed the rage to vilify the dysfunction that caused his bad acts. 

So this guy, supposed to be an egghead, supposed to be in a position of some authority, and supposed to know better, he snaps. Retreat wasn't an option, he's in the military and has his marching orders. So he stays and listens to more. These are people like HIM they are talking about. Fucking ragheads, sand *******. But he's a psychologist! He's MILITARY! He's supposed to understand all of this, and he did... But he was still HUMAN. Until he snapped, and then, well he isn't THAT anymore either.

Now he too is a raghead, a sand ******. 

A GOOK.

Did we have Vietnamese psychologists counseling outgoing and returning Vets during Vietnam? Could that have been the ONE thing the Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon administrations got right in regard to SE Asia? Jesus H. Christ, but what were they thinking?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Nov 9, 2009)

Several things here.............

First, this idiot is NOT from Palestine.  He was born here in the US.  

He is a Muslim.

A few months back, he was shopping around, trying  to join up with any terrorist organization that he could, and was turned down by several.  That is around the time that he started to show up on the CIA's radar. 

Now..........knowing what i know about deployments, since I did it for 20 years, I know that almost every unit knows when they're going to deploy, and generally with 6 months to 1 year notice.  Shortest notice of deployment I ever had was 3 months, but that was because I was due to report onboard a ship that was deploying right around the date I was supposed to report.  But....bottom line........I had plenty of time to sort things out so I could deploy without too many problems.

Now, I'm pretty sure that the Army is the same way.  What I would like to know is the timeline between when the unit was notified of the deployment, and then bounce that against the timeline of when the CIA noticed he was shopping for a terrorist organization to join.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




Rotfl!  How do you find the audacity to accuse others of being dishonest?  You edit the shit out of my posts when you quote them because you're smart enough to know you don't have a legitimate response but dumb enough to believe you're actually accomplishing something.  

I've explained why a Theocracy cannot be a Fascist State in several ways and I even posted Mussolini's fucking Doctrine on Fascism.  What do you have?  Wiki and enough whiny tears to drown Texas. 

It's not an accident you actively ignore anything that gets posted that reveals what you're lacking because you don't know the first thing about being honest.  Your entire existence is sufficient evidence why abortion should never be illegal.  Now cry some more.....


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 9, 2009)

Back to the dude that shot up the base.............

Personally?  I don't think he was a terrorist in the manner of Osama Bin Laden or Al-Zawhari, I would hold him more in the vein of Timothy McVeigh.

See.......OBL and AZ were affiliated with an organization and were well known members.

McVeigh had a loose association with a militia group here in the US.

The Army dude was looking to affiliate (as per the CIA), but nobody would take him.  He still didn't want to go to the ME (which is why he was trying to affiliate in the first place), so decided to go through with it anyway, hoping for a suicide by cop.

Yep.  That's what I think it is.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 9, 2009)

The best way to find out would be to check his bank account, and see if he accepted or contributed to radical Islamic causes.

I'd bet dollars to donuts he contributed.


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## Shorebreak (Nov 9, 2009)

I read this commentary elsewhere today. Quite frankly, it makes more sense than all of the conflicting and nonsensical material that FOX and CNN are reporting:



> In their haste to sell Major Hasan as the vilest villain since Osama Bin Laden, the intelligence boys have dug themselves int a real hole.
> 
> Their entire smear campaign against Major Hasan is that the intelligence agencies were watching him, suspicious of him, concerned, aware that he was posting some questionable posts on the net, tried to connect with Al Qaeda, and most damning of all, was once inside the same building as one of the 9-11 suspects, albeit not at the same time.
> 
> ...


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## Ame®icano (Nov 9, 2009)

> A radical American imam on Yemen's most wanted militant list who had contact with two 9/11 hijackers praised alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan as a hero on his personal Web site Monday.
> 
> The posting on the Web site for Anwar al Awlaki, who was a spiritual leader at two mosques where three 9/11 hijackers worshipped, said American Muslims who condemned the attacks on the Texas military base last week are hypocrites who have committed treason against their religion.
> 
> *Awlaki said the only way a Muslim can justify serving in the U.S. military is if he intends to "follow in the footsteps of men like Nidal." *



Radical imam praises alleged Fort Hood shooter


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 9, 2009)

Ame®icano;1700265 said:
			
		

> > A radical American imam on Yemen's most wanted militant list who had contact with two 9/11 hijackers praised alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan as a hero on his personal Web site Monday.
> >
> > The posting on the Web site for Anwar al Awlaki, who was a spiritual leader at two mosques where three 9/11 hijackers worshipped, said American Muslims who condemned the attacks on the Texas military base last week are hypocrites who have committed treason against their religion.
> >
> ...



....and....?


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## JenyEliza (Nov 9, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You're cool with that?  

Wow.


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## eots (Nov 9, 2009)

Dr Grump said:


> Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



no doubt its like posting some white guy that wants to kill all Jews..as if it is representative of anything more than someones inflammatory rant


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## eots (Nov 9, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> ...



people that put their irrelevant post in big fonts as if the size makes it more relevant are funny..lol


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## Dr Grump (Nov 9, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> ...



I am? Where did I say that?


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## GHook93 (Nov 9, 2009)

eots said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Grump said:
> ...



So Eots, what is the conspiracy theory behind this one? I mean don't you have a theory of how the government is behind this?


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## Dr Grump (Nov 9, 2009)

eots said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> ...



Bingo..

...do you think Jeny from the Block gets that....


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## RadiomanATL (Nov 9, 2009)

Ame®icano;1700265 said:
			
		

> > A radical American imam on Yemen's most wanted militant list who had contact with two 9/11 hijackers praised alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan as a hero on his personal Web site Monday.
> >
> > The posting on the Web site for Anwar al Awlaki, who was a spiritual leader at two mosques where three 9/11 hijackers worshipped, said American Muslims who condemned the attacks on the Texas military base last week are hypocrites who have committed treason against their religion.
> >
> ...



So a radical muslim terrorist supporting imam, acts like a radical muslim terrorist supporter imam?

Is that news?


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## Ame®icano (Nov 9, 2009)

RadiomanATL said:


> Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



News? Noooo... 
What do you think?

To me it sounds like a call for another shooting. There are probably quite few of those who listening those calls.


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## eots (Nov 9, 2009)

GHook93 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > JenyEliza said:
> ...



there certainly seems to be prior knowledge which is something I called the minute this happened ..as well as his involvement with homeland security or psyops as another sign
and something there is no question of is if they either let it happen or failed to act from incompetence they will now use it to their benefit and shamelessly exploit it to further their agenda


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Shorebreak said:


> I read this commentary elsewhere today. Quite frankly, it makes more sense than all of the conflicting and nonsensical material that FOX and CNN are reporting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So his theory is hasan did it as an act of mutiny?  Doesn't make much sense unless he specifically targeted some brass in the Deployment Arena.  From what I understand the targets were pretty random.

I wholly agree the pro government media is working together to revive the 9E Boogedyman and it does blow piss holes all over the "we are up your privacy's ass to save your ass" line.  I also suspect there is an agenda to try and make sense of it all which impedes any real understanding and sadly, too many islamophobes are joining the chorus.


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 9, 2009)

Curve, 
    'Acts of mutiny' occur everyday all over the Army, any soldier will tell you that. The whole 'cover the mutiny up' schtick is born of ignorance. 
     The idea that national intelligence assets were watching Hasan without the Army knowing about it sounds jacked up enough to be true. We spend almost as much time/energy fighting each other in turf wars as we do terrorist/insurgents/criminals/ etc.....


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Ame®icano;1700368 said:
			
		

> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> ...




This is the Digital Concern.  How do we verify someone's website for authenticity?  Audio or video tapes?  Digital technology has far outreached contemporary civic duty success and it is in our complacency the unknown remains but only until the fallout arrives.  We're supposed to be feerfill of the Isloboogedyam
 because of a website?  We're going to get laughed at like we laughed at the flat earth people.


----------



## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Curve,
> 'Acts of mutiny' occur everyday all over the Army, any soldier will tell you that. The whole 'cover the mutiny up' schtick is born of ignorance.
> The idea that national intelligence assets were watching Hasan without the Army knowing about it sounds jacked up enough to be true. We spend almost as much time/energy fighting each other in turf wars as we do terrorist/insurgents/criminals/ etc.....




That's a bit overblown.  The success of our military structure depends on the Culture of Silence.  When you join the military you forfeit 98% of your Constitutional rights and that is by design.  Mutiny does not happen all the time.....unless you count flipping your platoon leader (when his back is turned) mutiny.  It is possible the shooting was related to angst over deployment but I don't think it rises to the level of mutiny as we think of it in traditional terms.


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## Shorebreak (Nov 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Shorebreak said:
> 
> 
> > I read this commentary elsewhere today. Quite frankly, it makes more sense than all of the conflicting and nonsensical material that FOX and CNN are reporting:
> ...


No - read again. His theory is that a dead muslim who was caught in the crossfire would be easier to blame than to encourage other soldiers who are on the verge of the same sort of mutiny. Remember, by all reports, Hasan had prepared for deployment just like any other soldier. Also remember that he was heavily involved in counseling soldiers - many whom were in counseling because they did not want to deploy. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he were present and caught in the crossfire.

Also, keep in mind that for the first several hours, every single news agency and law enforcement official was reporting that there were multiple shooters in at least two separate locations. it wasn't until they thought they had a dead muslim that the story was spun on the ground to be a lone Islamic shooter. And all of a sudden, we have a maniac whom the military has been keeping very close tabs on and who has been under surveillance for his supposed subversive activities. 

The difficult part now is that the dead guy came back to life with a story to tell. It's no wonder that his lawyer won't let him talk to authorities.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> Back to the dude that shot up the base.............
> 
> Personally?  I don't think he was a terrorist in the manner of Osama Bin Laden or Al-Zawhari, I would hold him more in the vein of Timothy McVeigh.
> 
> ...



I don't think it qualifies as a terrorist attack. If it does that means every soldier in uniform that has ever fought is a terrorist.


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 9, 2009)

Curve, 
    LOL....riddle me this, riddle me that:
What's your MOS ?
Where'd you go to basic ? 
OIF or OEF ? When ? Which time ? 
          Sigh.....
     I didn't think so. 
     Given your post, I'm unconvinced you know the difference between an F-16 and a M-16; not necessarily a sin...
....until you try posing as someone who DOES know. 

      Code of silence ? Bwuuuhahahaha  !! THAT is rich !

Let's get back to mutiny. Define it ? Which article in the UCMJ covers it ? Your "level of mutiny as we think of it in traditional terms " holds no sway here.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Shorebreak said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Shorebreak said:
> ...



The misinformation about how many shooters could easily have come from situational chaos.  One guy firing to weapons at the same time could easily have created the noise effects suggesting more than one shooter.  If his line of site on both weapons were not parallel that would easily have been perceived as two locations.  Keep in mind this is a large building with cubicles and hundreds of Troops.  That also indicates the unlikely notion this was a failed coordinated mutiny because I'm pretty sure if other troops were firing their weapons the bystanders would have noticed to the point of confirmation. Also keep in mind the cops who responded were not on the hunt for the shooter's location.  This shows witnesses correctly directed a single area.

There is a possible contributing factor I've not seen mentioned.  During his tenure at Walter R he counseled several soldiers who suffered the worst kind of wounds, and good portion were amputees.  It may be possible he snapped by not being able to justify the wars while having first encounter experience with the survivors who lost limbs.  Since he couldn't stop deployments he may have internally justified killing as many as possible to prevent them from losing limbs.  He may have seen death as a better alternative to losing limbs and such.


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## Ame®icano (Nov 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Ame®icano;1700368 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think they are laughing already.

How to verify? FOr us, civilians there is simple tool called Who Is. Government agencies can dig much deeper.


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## CurveLight (Nov 9, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Curve,
> LOL....riddle me this, riddle me that:
> What's your MOS ?
> Where'd you go to basic ?
> ...



I didn't say "code" of silence but Culture of Silence.  This is easily seen by how many Officers resigned when bush was in office and then immediately publicly criticized the Administration.  They didn't do it until after they were out.  Do you know the UCMJ calls for the prosecution of a soldier who openly derides superiors?  Basically, you just accused me of lying about being a Combat Vet due to your ignorance.


I was a 67Y. Basic at Ft. Dix.  AIT at Ft Eustis. First duty station was at Biggs Airfield.  M-16? SPORTS.  Do you know what that means? OIF or OEF? Neither...it was ODS and ODS.  People like you take a very long time to get a whisper of humility.  You're probably so self righteous that even if I showed up at your front door with my DD214 you'd accuse me of spiking your water to pull super jedi mind tricks.  If you happen to have enough integrity to admit you fucked up with the false accusation don't bother apologizing.  Just move on.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 10, 2009)

RadiomanATL said:


> Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you're cool with what the Imam is saying too?  

Wow.  

Who knew we had so many weenie terrorist lovers on this board?


----------



## Article 15 (Nov 10, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> ...



*Where the fuck* did he say he was cool with what the Imam said?


----------



## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > Curve,
> ...



No, I'll admit I mess up, happens lots.
Which superior did I deride ? You ?!? 

    I was a 67Y once upon a time, btw. AIT at Eustis. I'll need to ask you some questions (off thread)  about Ft. Bliss, might be going there.

     I'll also tell you that your conspiracy theory mentality discredits your experience. You should know better than to think the Army could get it together that quickly and execute. I accused you of not being a combat vet because of the idiocy of your premise, the distinction is important. 
      The culture of silence you mention was in response to a war that had been going on for years, not an crisis less than a week old. Again, the distinction is significant. 
     It's inconcieveable to to me that anyone in the military for more than a day could come to the conclusions you apparently have. 

    My apologies...truly, I watched ODS on tv, you fought in it. Talk about an important distinction.
   My condolences as well, apparently you've forgotten quite a bit about the experience.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 10, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > Ame®icano;1700265 said:
> ...



I knew, and so do many others.


----------



## The T (Nov 10, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > RadiomanATL said:
> ...


 

We all do. This PC Shit has to cease immediately. It will be the DEATH of this Republic.


----------



## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 10, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > RadiomanATL said:
> ...



Allie and Jeny 
Non Sequitir. 
        It's polysyllabic AND Latin, probably a bit much for mouth breathing, Palin supporting, no loads like yourselves, but you can Google it....
....or read your idiocy above. 
Excellent example though, gotta give you that.


----------



## The T (Nov 10, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > JenyEliza said:
> ...


 
So says someone else that Points the boney finger of _INDIGNATION at what they just comitted?_

_SPARE US Jackass._

_In other words? FUCK YOU._


----------



## AllieBaba (Nov 10, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > JenyEliza said:
> ...



Let us review that post, and then discuss mouth breathing.


----------



## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 10, 2009)

Go right ahead....and try not to drool.


----------



## The T (Nov 10, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> Go right ahead....and try not to drool.


 

You should try seriously NOT to point fingers at something YOU comitted yourself fuckstick.


----------



## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 10, 2009)

T, 
   All this AND profanity too. 
Here's you big chance to play in the majors, T. Explain how my ID of Jeny and Allie's mentally dysfunctional and illogical blathering is non sequitur.


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## The T (Nov 10, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> T,
> All this AND profanity too.
> Here's you big chance to play in the majors, T. Explain how my ID of Jeny and Allie's mentally dysfunctional and illogical blathering is non sequitur.


 
I'm _already IN the "MAJORS"_. *I* Don't need nor _subscribe_ to your invitation.

Deal with it.


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## Cyborgmudhen (Nov 11, 2009)

The T said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > T,
> ...



LOL....yup.
Didn't think so. 
      Next !


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 11, 2009)

The T said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > T,
> ...



Yes, yes you do operate in the MAJORS T!    

And if you find the need to bitchslap me from time to time--at least you do it with grace, style and dignity.   Ahem....right?


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## JenyEliza (Nov 11, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



Goes right along with the drool problem the fuckwit is having.

He probably oughta see a doctor for that.  I hear Sleep Apnea can be dangerous.


----------



## JenyEliza (Nov 11, 2009)

Cyborgmudhen said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > Cyborgmudhen said:
> ...



That's all you got?

Your little tag-team dog pile didn't quite go down the way you thought it would, did it?  

Perhaps you ought to get back on the porch with the pups.  You obviously can't run with the big dogs!


----------



## Diuretic (Nov 11, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Cyborgmudhen said:
> ...



No need for alarmism.



> If you drool during sleep there is no need to worry.  This disorder is only inconvenient and does not pose more serious problems.



Sleep Disorders Help - Drooling In Sleep

This has been a public service announcement.


----------



## Coyote (Nov 11, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



This coming from the yapping Chihuahua is......rich.


----------



## Kalam (Nov 11, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> He probably oughta see a doctor for that.



But not a Muslim doctor, right?


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## Annie (Nov 11, 2009)

Kalam said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > He probably oughta see a doctor for that.
> ...



I've a Muslim doctor, no problem with him. He's cool.


----------



## Modbert (Nov 11, 2009)

Annie said:


> I've a Muslim doctor, no problem with him. He's cool.



He's remarking on Jen's comments about Muslim doctors and why she wouldn't want to have one whose religion is apparent. Though Kalam can take "solace" in the fact about her recent comments on African Americans and Native Americans as well.


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## Annie (Nov 11, 2009)

Dogbert said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> > I've a Muslim doctor, no problem with him. He's cool.
> ...



I think one needs to use their brain. I want the 'best doctor.' That of course would rule out anyone who tried to convert me or made me uncomfortable in conversation of any sort. I deal with people as individuals, not groups. With that said I do think that when there are 'warning signs' as were reported at Walter Reed, picked up by Homeland Security, reported to FBI, actions need to be taken.


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## Kalam (Nov 11, 2009)

Annie said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > JenyEliza said:
> ...



And mine is a Christian. As Dogbert pointed out, I was referring to a comment about Muslim doctors that what's-her-name made earlier.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 11, 2009)

What is of serious importance is that every 9/11 hijacker was Sunni, in 1993 the attack on the WTC was all Sunnis, the attack on the USS Cole was perpetrated by Sunnis. Major Hassan was Sunni, the D.C. killer was Sunni, a Sunni man ran over his daughter in Peroia AZ. Obama bin Laden is Sunni, Sunnis consider Barack Osama Sunni. 

All these terrible crimes are committed by Sunni Moslems and not one person pointed this out. 

On the other hand when was an american killed by a Shia Iranian, seems to me like the Shia are the good Moslems and Sunni are the medival murderers in the name of Auluh Moslems.


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## Yukon (Nov 13, 2009)

It's just another American shooting. Who really cares ???????


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## mal (Nov 13, 2009)

Yukon said:


> It's just another American shooting. Who really cares ???????



You are not only Wasting Bandwidth, but I Suspect you are also Wasting Oxygen...

Stain.



peace...


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## mal (Nov 13, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Cyborgmudhen said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



Send em to the Pound, Jeny!...



peace...


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## CurveLight (Nov 13, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> What is of serious importance is that every 9/11 hijacker was Sunni, in 1993 the attack on the WTC was all Sunnis, the attack on the USS Cole was perpetrated by Sunnis. Major Hassan was Sunni, the D.C. killer was Sunni, a Sunni man ran over his daughter in Peroia AZ. Obama bin Laden is Sunni, Sunnis consider Barack Osama Sunni.
> 
> All these terrible crimes are committed by Sunni Moslems and not one person pointed this out.
> 
> On the other hand when was an american killed by a Shia Iranian, seems to me like the Shia are the good Moslems and Sunni are the medival murderers in the name of Auluh Moslems.




You just said "I don't have a clue about Islam."


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## Yukon (Nov 13, 2009)

Muslim doctors treat their patients with chants on "Allah Akbar", "To hell with the Infidel", Death to the white-man". Muslims Doctors are just a step up from the Negro Witch-Doctors of Africa and Harlem.


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## Immanuel (Nov 13, 2009)

Wow! Talk about two contradictory posts by the same person in just a matter of a few minutes!



Yukon said:


> I am  al Liberal, I belong to the Liberal Party of Canada. Colon Powell was booted out by the GOP Conservatives - you know it and so does every other Conservative who still doesnt have his head up his retum or vagina. *We Liberals accept all people even coloureds*.





Yukon said:


> Muslim doctors treat their patients with chants on "Allah Akbar", "To hell with the Infidel", Death to the white-man". Muslims Doctors are just a step up from the Negro Witch-Doctors of Africa and Harlem.



One quick question, Yukon, do you accept pro-lifers in the same manner you accept Muslim and witch doctors from Harlem?

Immie


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## Yukon (Nov 13, 2009)

Pro-lifers are ok, as are pro-choicers. I'm pro-choice. I defend a woman's right to chose.


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## Immanuel (Nov 13, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Pro-lifers are ok, as are pro-choicers. I'm pro-choice. I defend a woman's right to chose.



Haha, me too, she has the right to choose up until the time of conception.  

See?  You and I do agree on some things.  

Immie


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## Liability (Nov 13, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Pro-lifers are ok, as are pro-choicers. I'm pro-choice. I defend a woman's right to chose.



You are always pro-choice.  You feel YOU have the right to choose to violate a child, sexually, because you are a mindless lousy scumbag.

You feel a woman has the right to terminate a helpless and completely innocent human life growing within her simply as a matter of her own personal convenience.

You are a debased piece of shit.  Nothing more.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 13, 2009)

Immanuel said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > Pro-lifers are ok, as are pro-choicers. I'm pro-choice. I defend a woman's right to chose.
> ...



If it doesn't have a nervous system, it's just a mass of cells.  Of no more consequence than a lump of fat growing on your back.

At the point where it has a nervous system?  Well........then, it has a way to feel pain, as well as a start on the brain.  Before that?  Just a clump of cells.

Happens about the 40 day mark.

If you wanna remove the growth before the nervous system forms?  Well......go ahead......it's not a "human" yet.

If you think that life begins at conception, think again.


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## CurveLight (Nov 13, 2009)

Liability said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > Pro-lifers are ok, as are pro-choicers. I'm pro-choice. I defend a woman's right to chose.
> ...




You are pro war which means by definition you are not pro life.


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## Liability (Nov 13, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > Yukon said:
> ...



Wrong again.  Such a simple-minded assertion is typical of the mindset of bombastic simpletons like you.

In actuality, recognizing that it is sometimes necessary to fight a war is recognizing that there is a true value to PRESERVING human life.

Unlike you, you simpleton, *I* am perfectly capable of drawing distinctions.  

OFTENTIMES (but not always) abortion is morally offensive and the improper termination of human life.

SOMETIMES (but not always) going to war is appropriate and morally justifiable in the DEFENSE of human life.

Try to get a handle on that someday.

It's called honesty and logic.  It could improve you greatly.


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## Immanuel (Nov 13, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> > Yukon said:
> ...



Only one way to reply to this:

You are welcomed to your own opinion no matter how wrong it is.

And I respect your opinion, just think you are extremely wrong.

Immie


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## Yukon (Nov 13, 2009)

Women DO have the right to rid their body of unwanted parasitic fetal tissue. ABORTION is LEGAL...eat your hearts out.


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## JenyEliza (Nov 13, 2009)

Kalam said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > He probably oughta see a doctor for that.
> ...



I don't care.  That's not my call to make.  It's his.

I don't make health care decisions for anyone but myself and my children.  

He will have to make his own decision on that.

Now get your head out of your ass and get over your huwt widdle feewiings.  

I don't want a Moslem doctor to treat me.  That's my right to choose.  If you don't like it, you'll just have to get over it.  You can't make me be treated by a Moslem (or anyone else who wears their religion on their sleeve).

I'd walk out on a pro-Abortion liberal ass-wipe doctor too.  If that makes you feel any better.


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## JenyEliza (Nov 13, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > Cyborgmudhen said:
> ...



Yep....WOOF=WOOF...


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## JenyEliza (Nov 13, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Women DO have the right to rid their body of unwanted parasitic fetal tissue. ABORTION is LEGAL...eat your hearts out.



For instance, if YUKON were a Doctor, I wouldn't allow him anywhere near me or anyone in my family.

Not even our hamster.


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## The T (Nov 13, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Women DO have the right to rid their body of unwanted parasitic fetal tissue. ABORTION is LEGAL...eat your hearts out.


 
So women have a license to KILL. _It's essentially what you're saying._


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## mal (Nov 13, 2009)

The T said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > Women DO have the right to rid their body of unwanted parasitic fetal tissue. ABORTION is LEGAL...eat your hearts out.
> ...



That's the Law of the Land...

But then again so was Slavery.



peace...


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## AllieBaba (Nov 13, 2009)

Parasitical and unwanted. THat's the way Yukon views children. Nice.


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## The T (Nov 13, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > Yukon said:
> ...


 
True dat.


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## CurveLight (Nov 14, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...




I used the comparison to point out the intellectual dishonesty of the anti-abortion groups.  The only way to be logically consistent is to not use "pro life" unless one is against war and the death penalty.  You can try and argue war and abortion are too different for comparison but the key is seeing the value of human life is simply an arbitrary game played by those who cannot reconcile inconsistent philosophies.


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## Diuretic (Nov 14, 2009)

New Internet law just passed the Internet Legislature.

_All threads, no matter how they start out, will eventually devolve into the abortion debate.
_
Good to see you lot are obeying the law


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## B L Zeebub (Nov 14, 2009)

JenyEliza said:


> Yukon said:
> 
> 
> > Women DO have the right to rid their body of unwanted parasitic fetal tissue. ABORTION is LEGAL...eat your hearts out.
> ...


You could not pay me enough to extract the hamster pre examination.


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## B L Zeebub (Nov 14, 2009)

Yukon said:


> Women DO have the right to rid their body of unwanted parasitic fetal tissue. ABORTION is LEGAL...eat your hearts out.


I concur,,,,,,


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## California Girl (Nov 14, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



Idiots like Curve believe fundamentally that no one is allowed an opinion that differs from his/hers. This is because he/she is clearly far more intelligent than anyone. I suspect this comes from an overinflated ego from years of surrounding him/herself with people less intelligent than he/she. 

If you are supportive of the troops, you are pro war - a warmonger perhaps.  When in fact, the truth is - possibly - more of a religious conviction. Curve may actually just be a devout coward.


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## CurveLight (Nov 14, 2009)

California Girl said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




Is this another example of you "not making it personal?" I've also never implied differing opinions are not allowed.....that is your loyal true love and why you are always telling people to shut up.  Stop stalking to make personal comments....naw....we both know you're incapable of anything more than pettiness as you have already proven that with previous posts and most assuredly will continue to prove it after I finish writing this post.


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## California Girl (Nov 14, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



Every time you respond to anything I say, I will respond the same way. That is not to tell you to shut up, it is to tell you to fuck off.


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## JW Frogen (Nov 14, 2009)

I am outraged!

Everyone knew what group this man belonged to, joined, chose to dedicate his life to, and yet they still let him in the Army and gave him a gun!

He was psychiatrist for Gods sake! Everyone knows psychiatrists are simply crazy people trying to find out what is wrong with themselves.


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## CurveLight (Nov 14, 2009)

California Girl said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...




So you make false accusations about others and your response is to whine.  Classic.


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## The T (Nov 14, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


 
Then why not really highlight the falsehoods? To this observer? You have been lackluster.


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## The T (Nov 14, 2009)

JW Frogen said:


> I am outraged!
> 
> Everyone knew what group this man belonged to, joined, chose to dedicate his life to, and yet they still let him in the Army and gave him a gun!
> 
> He was psychiatrist for Gods sake! Everyone knows psychiatrists are simply crazy people trying to find out what is wrong with themselves.


 
A case for Siggy Freud?


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## chanel (Nov 14, 2009)

Hey There's so much we don't know about this guy.How tall was he? That could explain a lot. Perhaps he had a complex about the size of his manhood. Or maybe his mother didn't breast feed. Let's keep the excuses coming. And not speak of the obvious.


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## Annie (Nov 14, 2009)

chanel said:


> Hey There's so much we don't know about this guy.How tall was he? That could explain a lot. Perhaps he had a complex about the size of his manhood. Or maybe his mother didn't breast feed. Let's keep the excuses coming. And not speak of the obvious.



Funniest quote I saw somewhere today, he suffered from "pre-traumatic stress disorder" in response the the NYT's stretch that he 'caught' PFSD from his patients.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 15, 2009)

You wanna know something REALLY fucked up?

FAUX Noise are the only ones that have really explored the avenue of this idiot being a terrorist.

CNN, MSNBC, the network news agencies?  They're all busy trying to bring the plight of PTSD and multiple deployments as the cause.

You know?  Both are right........he went snappy because he was scared of going to the ME.  And, as a result, he tried to affiliate with other terrorist groups.  However.......the terrorists told him no (probably because they knew the CIA was all over him), and so he decided, on his own, to go on his own personal jihad.  Maybe he was hoping for such a large display, that he figured SOME group would claim he was part of them.

Know why the MSM is trying to make this about PTSD and deployments?  

Simple................because the CIA and FBI BOTH knew they'd fucked up, and this is a really convenient way to white wash all the stupidity from not coordinating with each other properly.


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## Shorebreak (Nov 15, 2009)

I'll tell you something else that's fucked - all of the reports for the first several hours were of two or three gunmen. From the base officials and from the police. 

Which might explain how a psychiatrist without any combat training or experience could hit dozens of experienced combat veterans and shoot 100 rounds in less than three minutes.

Another strange thing is most of the soldiers who were interviewed immediately afterwards thought that the event was a drill. Even those who were shot didn't think it was real until they saw their own blood. Sergeants, captains, etc. They thought it was a training event.

That's where the attacks really take a left turn and go straight to the "conspiracy pile". Why? Because when the 9/11 attacks unfolded, NORAD was conducting a training exercise that simulated hijacked airliners ramming the World Trade Center. The first thing that confused NORAD officials were asking the FAA was "is this real, or training?" Additionally, the people responsible turned out to be under FBI surveillance, under army surveillance, and the subject of terrorists reports, yet nothing was done to prevent their attack.

Same thing when the London Underground bombings took place. The London police, anti-terror, and medical responders were already on each scene in preparation for an exercise to respond to a bomb attack. One organizer reported that there was confusion because they were all assembled outside of the Underground when the bombs went off and it took some effort to overcome the confusion because everyone initially thought it was an exercise. And... authorities knew immediately who was responsible. They had been under surveillance for a long time.

So we have three separate murderous events conducted by threatening folks who were under government surveillance. We have three events that all took the form of a training exercise. And the media response to each of the events is to encourage public support for foreign policy activities that many people were opposed to prior to the event.

Obviously it's just a coincidence and the media and government are faithful and should be trusted. But still, if I didn't trust them so much it might make me wonder if they actually killed innocent people in order to support a multi-trillion dollar agenda.

Naaah. That's just crazy talk.


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## Yukon (Nov 15, 2009)

I see the GayBikerSailor is back. My, my but we have missed the input from the world of homo-sex-ualia. Welcome back Gayboy.


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## CurveLight (Nov 15, 2009)

The T said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



Oh righta way Massa!  Lol.  Why do I need to care what you think of me?


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 15, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> You wanna know something REALLY fucked up?
> 
> FAUX Noise are the only ones that have really explored the avenue of this idiot being a terrorist.
> 
> ...



You actually have some valid points. But there is still more to this to be found. At least i think so.


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## CurveLight (Nov 15, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> You wanna know something REALLY fucked up?
> 
> FAUX Noise are the only ones that have really explored the avenue of this idiot being a terrorist.
> 
> ...



All msm is pro government so these are good points but fox has a specific political agenda so anything like this will be sold as terrorism because we are due for another 9E any time now. Americans need to be reminded why we voluntarily surrender good portions of our Constitution....I bet fox still even runs the ticker tape that says:

<<Terror Alert: Elevated>>


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## AllieBaba (Nov 15, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> You wanna know something REALLY fucked up?
> 
> FAUX Noise are the only ones that have really explored the avenue of this idiot being a terrorist.
> 
> ...



He went snappy because  he didn't want to kill the people he identified with, and because an imam told him he'd make it to paradise if he went out in a blaze of fire.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 15, 2009)

If he was afraid of being shot at, he wouldn't have set himself up to be blasted 4 times.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 16, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> If he was afraid of being shot at, he wouldn't have set himself up to be blasted 4 times.



No, he wasn't afraid of being shot, he was afraid of going to the ME.  

Standing up and getting shot 4 times isn't bravery, it's "suicide by cop", which is MUCH different.

You're not expecting to be there much longer.........


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## CurveLight (Nov 16, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > If he was afraid of being shot at, he wouldn't have set himself up to be blasted 4 times.
> ...




That's weird....all this time I've been reading this guy is a crazed muslim but he was afraid of a free ride to within a few hundred miles of Mecca?  He couldn't have been very devout....


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 16, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



No.  He was born here in America, but claimed to be Palestinian.  Apparently, he'd gotten some bad news about what would happen if he went to Iraq.

That's when he started shopping around for terrorist cells.  But, because he was being watched by the CIA, they wouldn't take him on.

He then became despondent and decided on suicide by cop.

Like I said, he was hoping to die.  I'm kinda happy that he's paralyzed and still alive.  

Gonna be easier to execute him that way.  And yes......in this case, all my peaceful hippie ways are gone.  He killed fellow brothers and sisters in arms of MINE, and I'd like to see a bit of payback.


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## Annie (Nov 16, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



Started way before going to Ft. Hood. He was screaming jihadi nearly 24/7. Perhaps it was to get out-though his actions sort of deny that. No, the military, NSA, FBI all dropped the ball. They didn't just have dots, they had medicine balls and decided they didn't fit the pc script. Over 40 lives plus their loved ones were effected.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 16, 2009)

Annie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Like I said before Annie, the whole reason that they are whitewashing this with the brush of PTSD and extensive deployment time, is because the CIA, FBI and the Army all dropped the ball.

They're just looking for a way to sweep this under the rug.


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## CurveLight (Nov 17, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...




The terrorist cells all knew he was being watched by the CIA?  Doesn't that sound kind of......off?  How do the terrorist cells have more intel than the cia, fbi, and homeland (in)security?

So far it doesn't look like people can pin this on islam but those who have done so already don't live in the world of Reason anyways.


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 17, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




Did you know there is a whole world outside of your basement?

Doesn't look like you can pin it on Islam? Which facts are you ignoring besides most of what we know about this man so far?

He was born a Muslim
He claimed to be Palestinian
He spoke out against going to war against Muslims
He wanted his patients charged with war crimes
He had a business card calling himself a Soldier of Allah
He attempted (at least) to contact terrorist organizations.
He murdered 13 people while screaming out religious slogans.

But don't blame any of this on Islam........


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## CurveLight (Nov 17, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...




I stopped reading as soon as I saw the "he was born a muslim" line.  Good grief.


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## mdn2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

He was a Sunni Moslem, not of Iran, but Sunni, as in the same as the 9/11 terrorist. 

Sunnis are the terrorists, not the Iranians

We should always identify moslems as to who they are, not all Moslems are bad.

In this case, it is once again a Sunni that attacked us.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 17, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



You're not serious are you?  Did you hear about his visits to the mosque?  How about the fact that he'd contacted some radical jihadists?

And yes...........there were enough MusLAMES from the mosque that could have kept an eye on him.  How the fuck do you think they do it in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Yes.........they did know that he was being watched.  Simple observation over a couple of months would have told them that.  Why else do you think that they didn't pick him up?  Do you realize what kind of an asset he would be in country for the terrorists?  All he'd really have to do is let a suicide bomber through the gates of the base.

Or worse............


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 17, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




Which proves that you ignore the facts, you are dismissed.


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## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



you left out that through all this he was he was given the honor of a place on the Obama transition team no less...hey nothing odd about that


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## Coyote (Nov 17, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



The only blame is on Nidal Hasan.


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## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

Coyote said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



bullshit... intelligence was well aware of this person he wanted soldiers charged with war crimes..openly supported terrorist..tried to make contact with terrorist and they did nothing except put him on the Obama transition team...they were waiting for him to commit such an act rather than stopping it..because it would be a politically useful tool in gaining support for the war on terror and because of that..peoples sons and daughters are now dead


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 17, 2009)

He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.

And yes.......the FBI and CIA knew about this idiot.  The reason they blame PTSD is because the CIA fucked up, and it's a quick way to whitewash this.

You know...........if a person is in the military, and at this person's rank, they generally have a security review on them every 1-2 years.  Especially if they have a Secret or higher clearance, and, since he's a shrink as well as a mid level officer, I can see where he would have one.

I'm just wondering why they didn't catch (and stop) this sooner?  I mean shit.........didn't they do his reviews properly?


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## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.
> 
> And yes.......the FBI and CIA knew about this idiot.  The reason they blame PTSD is because the CIA fucked up, and it's a quick way to whitewash this.
> 
> ...



I think they didnt fuck up and they did his reveiws ..they knew he was unstable and capable of going off and made a decision to let it play out


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## Coyote (Nov 17, 2009)

eots said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




Again (not sure how much more I can simplify this) - the only person responsible for the murder of 13 people is Nidal Hasan.


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## Coyote (Nov 17, 2009)

eots said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.
> ...



They did?  Hindsight is, as usual, perfect.


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## Coyote (Nov 17, 2009)

It's extremely difficult to predict the unpredictable - when a mentally ill or unstable person is going to do something drastic - until after it happens.

I think the problem made obvious in the Fort Hood shooting is not the "problem of Islam" but the problem of someone who has been repeatedly identified as unstable and difficult to deal with on many levels and yet they are unable to get rid of him because they are either worried about appearing anti-muslim or the bureaucratic red tape places so many impediments on firing someone they are unable to act and just pass him on. That is the problem that needs to be addressed - not all these semantical games about was it or was it not a "terrorist act".


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## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

Coyote said:


> It's extremely difficult to predict the unpredictable - when a mentally ill or unstable person is going to do something drastic - until after it happens.
> 
> I think the problem made obvious in the Fort Hood shooting is not the "problem of Islam" but the problem of someone who has been repeatedly identified as unstable and difficult to deal with on many levels and yet they are unable to get rid of him because they are either worried about appearing anti-muslim or the bureaucratic red tape places so many impediments on firing someone they are unable to act and just pass him on. That is the problem that needs to be addressed - not all these semantical games about was it or was it not a "terrorist act".



bullshit...any other solider would of been dealt with long ago for far less infractions


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## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

Coyote said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



no with foresight..he was clearly a problem


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## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

Coyote said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




you could not simplifie it anymore...but that does not mean it is that simple


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 17, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.
> 
> And yes.......the FBI and CIA knew about this idiot.  The reason they blame PTSD is because the CIA fucked up, and it's a quick way to whitewash this.
> 
> ...




You know the reason, It may have been considered racial profiling. Can't do anything that isn't P C even in the Army now.
 But then again he probably only had a Secret based on a simple BI. 
But damn, the press knows enough about him already to make a full blown investigation of him warranted. You would HOPE that Intell knows even more than the press could find out.


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## Maple (Nov 17, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.
> 
> And yes.......the FBI and CIA knew about this idiot.  The reason they blame PTSD is because the CIA fucked up, and it's a quick way to whitewash this.
> 
> ...




It's called political correctness. Everyone knew, but with the new administration we have in place now where it's not considered nice to call a terrorist a terrorist what do you expect. It's the pre 9-11 mentality that is the Obama administration. I am betting that we will see more of this before his first and only term as President is up.


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## CurveLight (Nov 17, 2009)

eots said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.
> ...




It has been too long since some camps have been able to sing "Muslims, Gays, and Strays! Oh my!"


What would happen if a gay illegal immigrant Mexican muslim went postal?


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## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.
> ...



bullshit..trying to contact terrorist ..get out of the army.. openly supporting suicide bombers
wanting patients charged with war crimes...there is a lot that can be done about all that..
and only a simpleton would believe they knew of all this but were frightened off by political correctness


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 17, 2009)

eots said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...




What the fuck do you know about it? When was the last time you wore a US Military uniform? Or were even in the USA.


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## CurveLight (Nov 17, 2009)

Maple said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > He wasn't so much a member of the transition team, as he was there just for the ceremony Eots.
> ...




You have to be fucking kidding me.  You actually stooped that pathetically low for a partisan jab?  Wtf?


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## ScottBernard (Nov 17, 2009)

My only surprise was that it was such a high ranking officer and someone in the medical branch. 
People in the medical branches of the military are barely what you may consider "military". At least that is from my experience. Military doctors seem just downright annoyed at being in the military at all. So I can understand how this guy got beneath the radar. 
Everything I hear about this guy tells me he is one of those people who used religion to make up for a lot of his shortcomings and frustrations in life. 
Giving yourself up to God means having humility; not expecting empowerment. Don't you know that?


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## CurveLight (Nov 17, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



Common sense is not limited to a uniform or geography ya jeopardy genius.


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## CurveLight (Nov 17, 2009)

ScottBernard said:


> My only surprise was that it was such a high ranking officer and someone in the medical branch.
> People in the medical branches of the military are barely what you may consider "military". At least that is from my experience. Military doctors seem just downright annoyed at being in the military at all. So I can understand how this guy got beneath the radar.
> Everything I hear about this guy tells me he is one of those people who used religion to make up for a lot of his shortcomings and frustrations in life.
> Giving yourself up to God means having humility; not expecting empowerment. Don't you know that?




You just opened up an ocean of worms.  The next 6 pages will be responding to that post with shit like "Well Islam is 
the debil! It don't teach no humility! It's a fake god!"


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 17, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...




Common sense? You mean that which you show so little of?


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 17, 2009)

Something else that everyone should think about..........and this is really scary............

Remember the 2 suicide bombers in Scotland that ran the car into the airport?  They were doctors.

Matter of fact, around 3 or 4 years ago, there were a LOT of MusLAME doctors running around, trying to be suicide bombers.

I'm wondering if this dude is just the tip of the iceberg?


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 17, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> Something else that everyone should think about..........and this is really scary............
> 
> Remember the 2 suicide bombers in Scotland that ran the car into the airport?  They were doctors.
> 
> ...




God I hope not, My Cardiologist is from Cairo. Not sure if he's Muslim.........


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## Kalam (Nov 17, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > Something else that everyone should think about..........and this is really scary............
> ...


Most Egyptians in the US are Copts. That's the way it is around here, at least. Not that it really matters.


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 17, 2009)

Kalam said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...



No clue what a Copts is but you are right it doesn't matter, I'm alive today because of his work. And he's a pretty good guy on top of being one hell of a Doctor.


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## Neubarth (Nov 17, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> He was a Sunni Moslem, not of Iran, but Sunni, as in the same as the 9/11 terrorist.
> 
> Sunnis are the terrorists, not the Iranians
> 
> ...


Iranian money supports almost all Islamic Terrorism around the world.  We owe Iran massive payback.  The entire friggin country needs to be wasted.  What a disgusting collection of zany shitheads run that place.


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## Kalam (Nov 17, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



Copts are Egyptian Christians, sorry for not clarifying.


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## CurveLight (Nov 18, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




It's worse than that because I have absolutely no common sense.  My coins are not for the commoners because I understand being Muslim is a choice of faith therefore it is absolutely impossible to be born a muslim.  Those spreading islamic fundamentalism may claim otherwise but they don't really get much of a ear for respect or credibility.


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## CurveLight (Nov 18, 2009)

Neubarth said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > He was a Sunni Moslem, not of Iran, but Sunni, as in the same as the 9/11 terrorist.
> ...




Well it makes sense someone who would advocate the genocide of millions of people is also ignorant of basic info.  


"The evidence was indisputable: Saudi Arabia. America's longtime ally and the world's largest oil producer had somehow become, as a senior Treasury Department official put it, "the epicenter" of terrorist financing."

"Over the past 25 years, the desert kingdom has been the single greatest force in spreading Islamic fundamentalism, while its huge, unregulated charities funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to jihad groups and al Qaeda cells around the world."
How billions in oil money spawned a global terror network - US News and World Report


&#8220;If I could somehow snap my fingers and cut off the funding from one country, it would be Saudi Arabia,&#8221; said Stuart Levey, the US Treasury official in charge of tracking terror financing."

"Half the foreign fighters held by the US at Camp Cropper near Baghdad are Saudis. They are kept in yellow jumpsuits in a separate, windowless compound after they attempted to impose sharia on the other detainees and preached an extreme form of Wahhabist Islam."

Here's a Saudi official telling saudis to go to iraq and kill americans:

"Sheikh Saleh al-Luhaidan, the chief justice, who oversees terrorist trials, was recorded on tape in a mosque in 2004, encouraging young men to fight in Iraq. &#8220;Entering Iraq has become risky now,&#8221; he cautioned. &#8220;It requires avoiding those evil satellites and those drone aircraft, which own every corner of the skies over Iraq. If someone knows that he is capable of entering Iraq in order to join the fight, and if his intention is to raise up the word of God, then he is free to do so.&#8221; 


For those who do not know, Gitmo was not always a harsh place for detainees under the Bush admin:

"Former detainees from the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba are also benefiting. To celebrate the Muslim holiday of Eid, 55 prisoners were temporarily released last month and given the equivalent of £1,300 each to spend with their families."
Saudi Arabia is hub of world terror - Times Online


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## mdn2000 (Nov 19, 2009)

Neubarth said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > He was a Sunni Moslem, not of Iran, but Sunni, as in the same as the 9/11 terrorist.
> ...



There are a lot of good looking persian women, I would hate to see them wasted. Sure Iranians do fund terrorism but at the same time Sunni's are funding terrorism as well, its like they are competing with one another. 

Maj. Hassan was a Sunni, he funded himself, 9/11 was funded by Sunni Moslems.

Latest on Sunni-Major Hassan is wanted try soldiers as war criminals. 

Looks like the only people who jumped the gun on this one are the ones who said this never had a thing to do with religion.


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## CurveLight (Nov 19, 2009)

mdn2000 said:


> Neubarth said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...




There is still nothing nailing down the "it's crazy islam's fault." Hell, you just highlighted a strong piece of evidence it was not about religion but it looks like you missed it.


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## Yukon (Nov 20, 2009)

*Long live the PLO !*


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## SFC Ollie (Nov 20, 2009)

Yukon said:


> *Long live the PLO !*




Ah yes the PLO and Yassar Arafat the Grandfather of hijackings.

Fuck the PLO.


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 21, 2009)

yukon said:


> *long live the plo !*



*die quickly yukon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuck off ya goddamn pedant, go please purists!!!!!!!*


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## Yukon (Nov 21, 2009)

I wondered how long it would take *the homosexualbikersailor* to wade in with his brilliant intellectual Trailer Park comments. Good boy, you didn't disappoint..................


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## ABikerSailor (Nov 21, 2009)

Yeah.......like the PLO is worthy...........

Bunch of fucking thugs more like..........


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