# The first 15 reasons we have gun crime in the United States....and the list will grow all year...we have to stop democrat judges and prosecutors.



## 2aguy (Apr 20, 2022)

From Chicago, the first 15 reasons we have gun crime in the U.S.........

*A four-time felon who was on bond for his third felony gun case is one of the gunmen who opened fire on a carload of people, leaving two injured, on the Lower West Side this month, prosecutors said Tuesday. He is now charged with five counts of attempted first-degree murder.

Hector Rivera is the 15th person charged with killing or shooting — or trying to shoot or kill — someone in Chicago this year while awaiting trial for a felony. The alleged crimes involve at least 33 victims, eight of whom died.*









						#15: Four-time felon opened fire on a carload of victims, injuring 2 while on bond for felony gun case, prosecutors say
					

A four-time felon who was on bond for his third felony gun case is one of the gunmen who opened fire on a carload of people, leaving two injured, prosecutors said.




					cwbchicago.com
				




The other 14......

Related 2022 Stories​#1: Man who tried to shoot 3 outside a North Side restaurant on New Year’s Day had a pending felony case, prosecutors say (January 6, 2022)

#2: Felon awaiting trial for 4 sexual assault cases escaped from electronic monitoring and tried to kill investigators who tracked him down, prosecutors say (January 15, 2022)

#3: With felony gun case pending, man shot passerby during “exchange of gunfire,” prosecutors say (January 23, 2022)

#4: Seven-time felon on electronic monitoring for his 4th gun case tried to shoot and kill his girlfriend’s father, prosecutors say (January 26, 2022)

#5: Teen on electronic monitoring for TWO gun cases carjacked a Lyft driver, then shot a 15-year-old at point-blank range, prosecutors say (February 10, 2022)

#6: Man killed nursing student months after going AWOL from felony DUI case, prosecutors say (February 20, 2022)

#7: Man shot and killed his own brother while on bail for a felony gun case, prosecutors say (February 22, 2022)

#8: Beloved Hyde Park bartender was killed by a robber who has 3 pending felony cases, prosecutors said (March 7, 2022)

#9: Man involved in New Year’s shoot-out that left one dead was on bail for his 3rd gun felony, prosecutors say (March 8, 2022)

#10: An 11-time convicted felon shot a 3-year-old and tried to kill the boy’s mother while on felony bail, prosecutors say (March 11, 2022)

#11: Man allegedly stabbed another to death 4 days after getting released on felony bail (March 29, 2022)

#12: He opened fire on his ex’s house, killing a man, prosecutors say. But he was supposed to be home 24/7 for a pending felony gun case. (March 29, 2022)

#13: Man shot a woman, fired toward 4 others, while on bond for being a felon in possession of a firearm, prosecutors say (April 7, 2022)

#14: Man killed his parents in an Uptown senior center while on bond for federal armed robbery and gun charges, prosecutors say (April 14. 2022)


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## sealybobo (Apr 20, 2022)

2aguy said:


> From Chicago, the first 15 reasons we have gun crime in the U.S.........
> 
> *A four-time felon who was on bond for his third felony gun case is one of the gunmen who opened fire on a carload of people, leaving two injured, on the Lower West Side this month, prosecutors said Tuesday. He is now charged with five counts of attempted first-degree murder.
> 
> ...



Federal study would track how courts set bail, release violent offenders under GOP bill​
I'm all for this.  This is bipartisan.  

“The Pretrial Release Reporting Act will bring transparency the American public deserves and make everyone aware of how frequent violent offenders are released into their communities after posting meager bail, or none at all,” Johnson said in a statement.

All members of Wisconsin's Republican congressional delegation signed on in support of the bill.

In Wisconsin, Republicans and some Democrats have signaled support for harsher bail standards. Some proposals include setting mandatory minimum bail amounts, allowing judges to consider an offender's risk to the public when setting bail, and eliminating cash bail.

On Tuesday, criminal justice advocacy groups met with lawmakers to share their ideas on how to reform the bail system, and their opposition to a constitutional amendment that would make it more difficult for violent defendants to get out on bail.

“I believe this bill can be damaging,” said Jerome Dillard, Ex-Incarcerated People Organizing (EXPO) executive director. “I feel judges should use their discretion but they also need to take into consideration what led up to the cause and effect.”

Another concern among Democrats and advocates is they worry the amendment eliminates the presumption of innocence.

“I feel cash bail is failing because we have two systems – one for the rich and guilty who are treated better than those who are poor and maybe innocent or guilty,” Dillard said.


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

2aguy said:


> From Chicago, the first 15 reasons we have gun crime in the U.S.........
> 
> *A four-time felon who was on bond for his third felony gun case is one of the gunmen who opened fire on a carload of people, leaving two injured, on the Lower West Side this month, prosecutors said Tuesday. He is now charged with five counts of attempted first-degree murder.
> 
> ...


I like long sentences, including 3 times and you are out on forced retirement for the rest of your life in prison, never to see the sunshine as a free man outside the wall.  I don't care if you are 31, 41 or even 21.  Three times on felony, it is obvious, you are not changing, and your free days should be over, end of story.


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## 2aguy (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I like long sentences, including 3 times and you are out on forced retirement for the rest of your life in prison, never to see the sunshine as a free man outside the wall.  I don't care if you are 31, 41 or even 21.  Three times on felony, it is obvious, you are not changing, and your free days should be over, end of story.




And we can haggle about non-violent felonies....but these are violent felons who have shown they are willing to maim and kill and that they will continue to do it when they are released....


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## Failzero (Apr 20, 2022)

Crime Skyrockets , America flooded with Criminal Turd Worlders & Islamists with two chips o their Shoulders ...


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## Donald H (Apr 20, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> Federal study would track how courts set bail, release violent offenders under GOP bill​
> 
> 
> “I feel cash bail is failing because we have two systems – one for the rich and guilty who are treated better than those who are poor and maybe innocent or guilty,” Dillard said.


Would the lack of prison space to house all the shooters be a reason that would cover all the others as secondary reasons?

Suppose all shooters, including the Rittenhouses, were jailed and that increased the number of beds needed by double the current number.

Would the taxpayers be willing to foot the bill, or would it be necessary to up the penalty to death for minor bullet injuries?

Or would there be any support for imposing the death penalty on all black shooters?


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And we can haggle about non-violent felonies....but these are violent felons who have shown they are willing to maim and kill and that they will continue to do it when they are released....


Here is an even better idea.  Three proven, convicted violent attack felonies a juvenile or adult has been sentenced for in the past and the sentencing is automatically bumped up to the death penalty.  Better the three time convicted violent criminal than the man, woman or child on the street.  
The biggest mistake a woman can make is devoting her life, thinking she can change the character of the man she married.  They don't change.  Neither do the three times convicted felons.  Prison wall far better to protect the misguided people of society, than restraining orders on wife beater do for protecting women in bad relationships with men who do not change.


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Would the lack of prison space to house all the shooters be a reason that would cover all the others as secondary reasons?
> 
> Suppose all shooters, including the Rittenhouses, were jailed and that increased the number of beds needed by double the current number.
> 
> ...


Black or white does not matter.  I am all for upping the death penalty.  Mad dogs should be put down.


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## M14 Shooter (Apr 20, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Suppose all shooters, including the Rittenhouses...


No real surprise that you want to put innocent men in jail.


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## Donald H (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Black or white does not matter.  I am all for upping the death penalty.  Mad dogs should be put down.


Seriously, what do you have in mind?

Can you suggest how the death penalty could be increased to being the punishment for crimes that escape currently by other circumstances.

I have the luxury of being positive about the possible remedy you suggest, as long as it doesn't effect Canada and could conceivably have a positive influence on Canadians.


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## sealybobo (Apr 20, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Would the lack of prison space to house all the shooters be a reason that would cover all the others as secondary reasons?
> 
> Suppose all shooters, including the Rittenhouses, were jailed and that increased the number of beds needed by double the current number.
> 
> ...


All great questions.  And i'll be curious to see if conservative judges are any better.  They want to win too.  So like liberal judges, they cop plea deals all the time.  Give a guy 10 years when he should be serving life.  If it goes to trial, maybe he will be found not guilty.

And I'd be curious how many young white conservative men who violently rape women in college repeat offend when the conservative judges most always let them out with what amounts to a slap on the wrist.









						Judge Tosses Teen’s Sexual Assault Conviction, Drawing Outrage
					

Drew Clinton, 18, faced four years in prison under Illinois sentencing guidelines. But the judge, Robert Adrian, overturned his conviction, saying the sentence was “not just.” The judge has been removed from hearing criminal cases.




					www.nytimes.com
				













But the judge, Robert Adrian, overturned his conviction, saying the sentence was “not just.” The judge has been removed from hearing criminal cases.


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## Donald H (Apr 20, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> All great questions.  And i'll be curious to see if conservative judges are any better.  They want to win too.  So like liberal judges, they cop plea deals all the time.  Give a guy 10 years when he should be serving life.  If it goes to trial, maybe he will be found not guilty.
> 
> And I'd be curious how many young white conservative men who violently rape women in college repeat offend when the conservative judges most always let them out with what amounts to a slap on the wrist.
> 
> ...


Part of the problem that can't be ignored is that America is dependent on plea bargaining. Without it, statistically the courts are incapable of handling the load!

This results in criminals not going to trial and receiving just sentences. But it also results in far too many criminals being jailed when lesser punishment is more justified.

In short, the American system has failed.

The American people see 'red' if Norway's system is as much as being mentioned. That erects a barrier against any possible solution! 

That is, excepting third country remedy of a bullet to the back of the head.


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## sealybobo (Apr 20, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Part of the problem that can't be ignored is that America is dependent on plea bargaining. Without it, statistically the courts are incapable of handling the load!
> 
> This results in criminals not going to trial and receiving just sentences. But it also results in far too many criminals being jailed when lesser punishment is more justified.
> 
> ...











						Adam Ruins Prison
					

Adam goes behind bars to reveal how corporations make money off of inmates, expose the myth of jail rehabilitation and illustrate why solitary confinement is akin to torture.




					www.trutv.com
				




Adam goes behind bars to reveal how corporations make money off of inmates, expose the myth of jail rehabilitation and illustrate why solitary confinement is akin to torture. 

_There are 2.2 million people incarcerated in the U.S., ten times more than fifty years ago.

Last year Corrections Corporation of America took in one point seven BILLION dollars.

The sales pitch was a lie: private prisons cost taxpayers just as much or more than regular prisons.

private prisons dole out twice as many infractions as government prisons.  To keep you longer.

If you think the goal is less prisoners....Last year, a private prison in Arizona didn’t meet their 97 percent capacity quota, so the state government had to pay them a $3 million fine.

Are we trying to educate them when they are in prison?  we’ve gone from 350 college-degree programs for people in prison across the country, to just 12!

And good luck getting into the programs that do exist. The largest prison training program in the country has a waiting list of 10,000 people

This New York Times Magazine piece explores the prison system in Norway, which takes a far different approach than the United States and produces promising results._


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Seriously, what do you have in mind?
> 
> Can you suggest how the death penalty could be increased to being the punishment for crimes that escape currently by other circumstances.
> 
> I have the luxury of being positive about the possible remedy you suggest, as long as it doesn't effect Canada and could conceivably have a positive influence on Canadians.


I already did.  If you have two prior convictions on violent felonies, the third be a death penalty upgrade.  You have proven more dangerous to society and without motivation to change.  If the violent felonies started as a juvenile, those would count also. Why?  Do you think the violent thug's life as important or more important than yours, your wife's, your daughter's.  Not mine.  I don't mean to sound cold, but I have priorities and do not include responsibilities to the dangerously detrimental individuals of society.
Oh, and if it works out, it might prevent our thugs coming across the border to inflict themselves on your society.  How's that for a benefit to Canadians?


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## Donald H (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I already did.  If you have two prior convictions on violent felonies, the third be a death penalty upgrade.  You have proven more dangerous to society and without motivation to change.  If the violent felonies started as a juvenile, those would count also. Why?  Do you think the violent thug's life as important or more important than yours, your wife's, your daughter's.  Not mine.  I don't mean to sound cold, but I have priorities and do not include responsibilities to the dangerously detrimental individuals of society.
> Oh, and if it works out, it might prevent our thugs coming across the border to inflict themselves on your society.  How's that for a benefit to Canadians?


I was really mostly interested in how far an American would go on administering the death penalty. You've done as I had expected. 
Most Americans openly suggest that they feel no social responsibility toward the people their system is destroying.



> I don't mean to sound cold, but I have priorities and *do not include responsibilities* to the dangerously detrimental individuals of society.



I can't imagine anything colder than that! You mean it!


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I like long sentences, including 3 times and you are out on forced retirement for the rest of your life in prison, never to see the sunshine as a free man outside the wall.  I don't care if you are 31, 41 or even 21.  Three times on felony, it is obvious, you are not changing, and your free days should be over, end of story.


 No state in America will do that


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I like long sentences, including 3 times and you are out on forced retirement for the rest of your life in prison, never to see the sunshine as a free man outside the wall.  I don't care if you are 31, 41 or even 21.  Three times on felony, it is obvious, you are not changing, and your free days should be over, end of story.


 No state in America 


White 6 said:


> I already did.  If you have two prior convictions on violent felonies, the third be a death penalty upgrade.  You have proven more dangerous to society and without motivation to change.  If the violent felonies started as a juvenile, those would count also. Why?  Do you think the violent thug's life as important or more important than yours, your wife's, your daughter's.  Not mine.  I don't mean to sound cold, but I have priorities and do not include responsibilities to the dangerously detrimental individuals of society.
> Oh, and if it works out, it might prevent our thugs coming across the border to inflict themselves on your society.  How's that for a benefit to Canadians?


The gop states will never go for that


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## otto105 (Apr 20, 2022)

2aguy said:


> From Chicago, the first 15 reasons we have gun crime in the U.S.........
> 
> *A four-time felon who was on bond for his third felony gun case is one of the gunmen who opened fire on a carload of people, leaving two injured, on the Lower West Side this month, prosecutors said Tuesday. He is now charged with five counts of attempted first-degree murder.
> 
> ...


We have gun crimes because we have guns.


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

Donald H said:


> I was really mostly interested in how far an American would go on administering the death penalty. You've done as I had expected.
> Most Americans openly suggest that they feel no social responsibility toward the people their system is destroying.
> 
> 
> ...


I have managed to make it  67 years without killing anybody once and never seriously wounded anybody more than once, that time being in self-defense.  My dog even knows the word "NO" and she's only 8 years old.  For whatever reason (and the reason not mattering to me) some people do not learn "NO" means "NO"!  After the third violent attack, it is apparent, you cannot teach some dogs, new tricks.


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No state in America will do that


I know.  It is equally sad, many segments of society do not possess the will to survive, while others prey upon them at will, with little to fear in terms of punishment or retribution for their actions against the more innocent, trusting and often more defenseless of society.


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

Vegasgiants said:


> No state in America
> 
> The gop states will never go for that


The GOP states?  Not the bleeding heart liberal states?  That is an interesting line.  Were you joking to make a point?


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## otto105 (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I already did.  If you have two prior convictions on violent felonies, the third be a death penalty upgrade.  You have proven more dangerous to society and without motivation to change.  If the violent felonies started as a juvenile, those would count also. Why?  Do you think the violent thug's life as important or more important than yours, your wife's, your daughter's.  Not mine.  I don't mean to sound cold, but I have priorities and do not include responsibilities to the dangerously detrimental individuals of society.
> Oh, and if it works out, it might prevent our thugs coming across the border to inflict themselves on your society.  How's that for a benefit to Canadians?


The death penalty has never been proven to be a deterrent.


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## Vegasgiants (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> The GOP states?  Not the bleeding heart liberal states?  That is an interesting line.  Were you joking to make a point?


The gop has total control over several states


Why wont they do this?


I know


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

otto105 said:


> The death penalty has never been proven to be a deterrent.


Not in general, but very effective in the specific.  I know of nobody, ever stabbed, shot, bludgeoned, strangled or raped by somebody that rose from their grave.


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## otto105 (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Not in general, but very effective in the specific.  I know of nobody, ever stabbed, shot, bludgeoned, strangled or raped by somebody that rose from their grave.


So, in the case of ted bundy...


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## Donald H (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> I have managed to make it  67 years without killing anybody once and never seriously wounded anybody more than once, that time being in self-defense.  My dog even knows the word "NO" and she's only 8 years old.  For whatever reason (and the reason not mattering to me) some people do not learn "NO" means "NO"!  After the third violent attack, it is apparent, you cannot teach some dogs, new tricks.


And so 2A guy can continue to advertise the slaughter by gun and maintain there is no solution for the problem. Who give a fk White? Apparently not any Americans but the odd bleeding heart lib'rul!

I think that 2A wants the negative attention too so I'll just assume I'm invited.


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## otto105 (Apr 20, 2022)

Seems like a gun solved this guys problems...

Man shot, killed neighbor in dispute over dog before returning to yard work ‘as if nothing happened’: report


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## White 6 (Apr 20, 2022)

Donald H said:


> And so 2A guy can continue to advertise the slaughter by gun and maintain there is no solution for the problem. Who give a fk White? Apparently not any Americans but the odd bleeding heart lib'rul!
> 
> I think that 2A wants the negative attention too so I'll just assume I'm invited.


He seems pro-gun (any kind) for everybody(no matter who), anywhere, all the time.  Sounds very much like the wild wild west of the late 1800s to when the population was 38 to 62 million people, but now we have about 330 million in the same space.  Many do not need to be carrying in the best interests of society, for one reason or another, but we do not know who they are until after the fact.  Then of course, they are easily identifiable.  Juvenile delinquents and criminals are identified.  These should never have weapons.  For this, I like stop, frisk, confiscate and or incarcerate.  That is just me.  I have no problem with stop and frisk, as I am fully licensed, background checked, and do not carry or possess illegal weapons, or stolen weapons.  I believe in training, certification, etc, but not in states that have used it as a money making scam to deprive normal citizens of their right, and yes, theses asshole states do exist.  Constitutional carry is not a great idea, but where the state has so screwed up gun rights as to make it a hurdle for normal people, it is the easiest and quickest way to make it so, not only criminals can carry weapons defensively.  Even with Republicans, it is quicker and cheaper to go with constitutional carry than to reign in the taxation and employment in place to maintain the hurdle system.  Republicans only cut income taxes not state taxes and fees, benefitting state coffers of government employment positions.


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## Donald H (Apr 20, 2022)

White 6 said:


> He seems pro-gun (any kind) for everybody(no matter who), anywhere, all the time.  Sounds very much like the wild wild west of the late 1800s to when the population was 38 to 62 million people, but now we have about 330 million in the same space.  Many do not need to be carrying in the best interests of society, for one reason or another, but we do not know who they are until after the fact.  Then of course, they are easily identifiable.  Juvenile delinquents and criminals are identified.  These should never have weapons.  For this, I like stop, frisk, confiscate and or incarcerate.  That is just me.  I have no problem with stop and frisk, as I am fully licensed, background checked, and do not carry or possess illegal weapons, or stolen weapons.  I believe in training, certification, etc, but not in states that have used it as a money making scam to deprive normal citizens of their right, and yes, theses asshole states do exist.  Constitutional carry is not a great idea, but where the state has so screwed up gun rights as to make it a hurdle for normal people, it is the easiest and quickest way to make it so, not only criminals can carry weapons defensively.  Even with Republicans, it is quicker and cheaper to go with constitutional carry than to reign in the taxation and employment in place to maintain the hurdle system.  Republicans only cut income taxes not state taxes and fees, benefitting state coffers of government employment positions.


That seems pretty close to normal, but words can mean something very different from what really is normal. I have no way of telling with you, either way.
In any case, it's clear enough that you're being overruled. 

In case you want to know, you can trust a Canadian on the gun question. We have lots of them, freedom to carry them, and use them with discretion. Our main advantage is in outlawing most handgun use.

You sound like you are amenable to a discussion and so I've responded. I have no interest in being harangued by the gungoons and when that starts to happen I stop giving a fk.


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## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

otto105 said:


> We have gun crimes because we have guns.




Wow...that is stupid.....The Swiss have fully automatic military rifles in their homes and they have low crime rates....

Then you would have to explain this....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

What changed in 2015?*

*The democrat party decided to attack the police to the point the police stopped doing their jobs....

The democrat party ramped up the release of repeat gun offenders, their judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing the most violent offenders no matter how many gun felonies they get...

The democrat party released their blm/antifa brown shirts to murder, loot, and burn for 7 months, in primarily black neighborhoods and told the police to stand down and allow it to happen...


We don't have gun murder because normal people have guns...we have a gun crime problem because the democrat party wants more crime...

Our gun crime is confined almost exlusively to democrat party controlled cities..........

You don't know what you are talking about.
*


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## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

otto105 said:


> The death penalty has never been proven to be a deterrent.




Because it takes 30 years to implement.........


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## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

White 6 said:


> He seems pro-gun (any kind) for everybody(no matter who), anywhere, all the time.  Sounds very much like the wild wild west of the late 1800s to when the population was 38 to 62 million people, but now we have about 330 million in the same space.  Many do not need to be carrying in the best interests of society, for one reason or another, but we do not know who they are until after the fact.  Then of course, they are easily identifiable.  Juvenile delinquents and criminals are identified.  These should never have weapons.  For this, I like stop, frisk, confiscate and or incarcerate.  That is just me.  I have no problem with stop and frisk, as I am fully licensed, background checked, and do not carry or possess illegal weapons, or stolen weapons.  I believe in training, certification, etc, but not in states that have used it as a money making scam to deprive normal citizens of their right, and yes, theses asshole states do exist.  Constitutional carry is not a great idea, but where the state has so screwed up gun rights as to make it a hurdle for normal people, it is the easiest and quickest way to make it so, not only criminals can carry weapons defensively.  Even with Republicans, it is quicker and cheaper to go with constitutional carry than to reign in the taxation and employment in place to maintain the hurdle system.  Republicans only cut income taxes not state taxes and fees, benefitting state coffers of government employment positions.



*He seems pro-gun (any kind) for everybody(no matter who), anywhere, all the time. *

Yeah...no...

I am for normal people being able to own and carry guns...felons and those adjudicated dangerously mentally ill should be barred.  I also know that the democrats and other leftists will use any mandatory training to limit, if not completely deny, normal people access to guns.....we have seen this in Europe and other countries.

I support getting as much training as possible, but will not allow training, taxes or fees to obstruct the Right to own and carry a gun for self defense..........


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## Captain Caveman (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> From Chicago, the first 15 reasons we have gun crime in the U.S.........
> 
> *A four-time felon who was on bond for his third felony gun case is one of the gunmen who opened fire on a carload of people, leaving two injured, on the Lower West Side this month, prosecutors said Tuesday. He is now charged with five counts of attempted first-degree murder.
> 
> ...


The first reason is, the 2nd Amendment, the second reason is, the 2nd Amendment, the third reason is, the 2nd Amendment, the fourth reason.........

.....the fifteenth reason is, the 2nd Amendment.


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## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The first reason is, the 2nd Amendment, the second reason is, the 2nd Amendment, the third reason is, the 2nd Amendment, the fourth reason.........
> 
> .....the fifteenth reason is, the 2nd Amendment.




Yeah.....15 reasons from just Chicago...and you still are too stupid to see the real problem.


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## White 6 (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> *He seems pro-gun (any kind) for everybody(no matter who), anywhere, all the time. *
> 
> Yeah...no...
> 
> ...


The real problem is people that should not have weapons on the street.  We both know they exist.  How can we get those weapons and those criminal people off the street without effecting normal people?  What is your opinion of stop and frisk, abandoned due to racial profiling issues?  Is there another way or is it pointless at the point in time?


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## 2aguy (Apr 21, 2022)

White 6 said:


> The real problem is people that should not have weapons on the street.  We both know they exist.  How can we get those weapons and those criminal people off the street without effecting normal people?  What is your opinion of stop and frisk, abandoned due to racial profiling issues?  Is there another way or is it pointless at the point in time?




Personally, I like stop and frisk....the street cops know who the gang members and criminals are.....since stop and frisk ended, more lives have been lost...gang members and other criminals now carry guns regularly, knowing they won't be stopped.

The racial profiling issue?   The truth is that in democrat party controlled cities, in tiny areas, a few blocks of area.....some of the worst crime is in black neighborhoods...that has nothing to do with race, has everything to do with broken homes and no fathers.....in any other racial neighborhood when you have close to 75% and over fatherless homes, you have high crime, teen pregnancy and violence.....

We have to deal with fatherlessness.....but first we need to stop those damaged children from shooting each other and innocent victims....

The only way to do this is for the regular people in those neighborhoods to stop voting for democrats......the democrats are the ones pushing no bail release, low bail release, and putting the most violent monsters back into those neighborhoods....


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## Donald H (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah.....15 reasons from just Chicago...and you still are too stupid to see the real problem.


Is it really all that important that Americans are killing each other on the domestic scene, when World War is actually started? 
Liken it to the Sitzkreig phase but with sharper teeth. 
Go play oiling up your personal artillery so you can pretend they will be useful.


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## Failzero (Apr 21, 2022)

Democommies have become experts at using the Constitution & State's Rights to get what they want


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## Captain Caveman (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah.....15 reasons from just Chicago...and you still are too stupid to see the real problem.


The real problem is giving the idiots that want a gun to shoot others under the guise of self defence.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Apr 21, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The real problem is giving the idiots that want a gun to shoot others under the guise of self defence.


Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?


----------



## Failzero (Apr 21, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The real problem is giving the idiots that want a gun to shoot others under the guise of self defence.


So Black Women in Chicago & Baltimore & Newark ... do not deserve CHL/CWP/CCW for Self Defense ?


----------



## otto105 (Apr 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wow...that is stupid.....The Swiss have fully automatic military rifles in their homes and they have low crime rates....
> 
> Then you would have to explain this....
> 
> ...


Gun violence in American has been rising since 2014 and the most unsafe cities are in red states.

*10 Most Dangerous Cities in the US (#1 is the highest cost of crime)*

Detroit, Michigan.
New Orleans, Louisiana.
Baltimore, Maryland.
Memphis, Tennessee.
Cleveland, Ohio.
Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Kansas City, Missouri.
Shreveport, Louisiana.

Explain that


----------



## Failzero (Apr 21, 2022)

No Atlanta No Camden No Oakland ????????


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 22, 2022)

otto105 said:


> Gun violence in American has been rising since 2014 and the most unsafe cities are in red states.
> 
> *10 Most Dangerous Cities in the US (#1 is the highest cost of crime)*
> 
> ...




First, you failed to link the source of your stats....


Moron........those cities are run by democrats......you idiot.

You idiots always try to hide this fact by blaming "Red States," when those Red States have major cities completely controlled by the democrat party......

No.....gun violence didn't start the upward swing until 2015, the year of the gentle giant riots.....that is when the democrat party decided to attack the police as a political strategy, and they began to release violent gun criminals like it was going out of style.......

Finally, you would have to explain the following....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

*What changed in 2015?

The democrat party decided to attack the police to the point the police stopped doing their jobs....

The democrat party ramped up the release of repeat gun offenders, their judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing the most violent offenders no matter how many gun felonies they get...

The democrat party released their blm/antifa brown shirts to murder, loot, and burn for 7 months, in primarily black neighborhoods and told the police to stand down and allow it to happen...


We don't have gun murder because normal people have guns...we have a gun crime problem because the democrat party wants more crime...*


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 22, 2022)

Failzero said:


> No Atlanta No Camden No Oakland ????????




The idiot doesn't even give a link for the source of that list...

Then, all of those cities are under the complete control of the democrat party.........these idiots don't even do the most basic research....


----------



## Captain Caveman (Apr 22, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah.....15 reasons from just Chicago...and you still are too stupid to see the real problem.


Most shootings are between gangs and criminals themselves. All other incidents are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, and as you pointed out, most gun deaths are by suicide and not from the bizarre idea of self defence. If someone feels the need to shoot someone, the 2 amendment gave the right to both who were willing to shoot one another a firearm. Willing to shoot someone makes that's person a bad choice to have a firearm.

Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?

M14 Shooter


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 22, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Most shootings are between gangs and criminals themselves. All other incidents are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, and as you pointed out, most gun deaths are by suicide and not from the bizarre idea of self defence. If someone feels the need to shoot someone, the 2 amendment gave the right to both who were willing to shoot one another a firearm. Willing to shoot someone makes that's person a bad choice to have a firearm.
> 
> Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?
> 
> M14 Shooter




You really are a dumb human being.  Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year for self defense....that means they use them against rapists, robbers, murderers, and other violent monsters....1.1 million times, according to the CDC....

Willing to save a life with a firearm is why we have the Right to begin with....you, support the idea that only the government should have guns....governments around the world that have shown time and time again, the willingness to murder millions of innocent men, women and children...that is you.

Why do I insult people like you......not people who disagree with me....I post with those types of people all the time....I insult morons like you because your stupidity is beyond contempt....


----------



## Captain Caveman (Apr 22, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You really are a dumb human being.  Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year for self defense....that means they use them against rapists, robbers, murderers, and other violent monsters....1.1 million times, according to the CDC....
> 
> Willing to save a life with a firearm is why we have the Right to begin with....you, support the idea that only the government should have guns....governments around the world that have shown time and time again, the willingness to murder millions of innocent men, women and children...that is you.
> 
> Why do I insult people like you......not people who disagree with me....I post with those types of people all the time....I insult morons like you because your stupidity is beyond contempt....


The civilian that's not suitable to own a gun is a person who is willing to use one on another civilian. Everyone else, the sensible side of society, should enjoy guns for recreation, sport, vermin control etc.., 

Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?

M14 Shooter


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 22, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The civilian that's not suitable to own a gun is a person who is willing to use one on another civilian. Everyone else, the sensible side of society, should enjoy guns for recreation, sport, vermin control etc..,
> 
> Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?
> 
> M14 Shooter




So, genius.....I guy tries to drag a woman into an ally to beat, rape and kill her........she has a gun and is more than willing to use it to stop the rape, beating and murder....

Tell us again your thoughts on this....


----------



## Failzero (Apr 22, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The civilian that's not suitable to own a gun is a person who is willing to use one on another civilian. Everyone else, the sensible side of society, should enjoy guns for recreation, sport, vermin control etc..,
> 
> Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?
> 
> M14 Shooter


Um, 2A/RTKBA is NOT about Hunting or Trap & Skeet or Collecting or Target Shooting or 3 Gun Competitions ...


----------



## Failzero (Apr 22, 2022)

2A/RTKBA is so Folks of Color / Far Left & Left could "Fight the Power" if these Folks were in Control of America . So it must be there for Americans of other ilk to do the same ?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Apr 22, 2022)

2aguy said:


> So, genius.....I guy tries to drag a woman into an ally to beat, rape and kill her........she has a gun and is more than willing to use it to stop the rape, beating and murder....
> 
> Tell us again your thoughts on this....


Yes, when the abortion issue also kicks off, people run off to rape victims, thus justifying abortion. When talking about guns, people run off to poor defenceless women getting raped. Just the same old crap that fulfils a tiny percentage in both cases. But always deflect.

It's a case of getting guns out of the wrong hands and into the correct hands. Willing to shoot someone comes under the definition of wrong hands. But having a blatant disregard to safety and letting any old Tom, dick, and Harry to have a gun is called the 2nd amendment.

You might be trying to justify guns on the basis of women shooting against being rape, others are trying to justify sensible regulations to stop innocent civilians being shot.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 22, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Yes, when the abortion issue also kicks off, people run off to rape victims, thus justifying abortion. When talking about guns, people run off to poor defenceless women getting raped. Just the same old crap that fulfils a tiny percentage in both cases. But always deflect.
> 
> It's a case of getting guns out of the wrong hands and into the correct hands. Willing to shoot someone comes under the definition of wrong hands. But having a blatant disregard to safety and letting any old Tom, dick, and Harry to have a gun is called the 2nd amendment.
> 
> You might be trying to justify guns on the basis of women shooting against being rape, others are trying to justify sensible regulations to stop innocent civilians being shot.



And I will put you in the column that it is better the victim is raped, robbed, murdered, stabbed or beaten rather than protect themselves with a gun.


----------



## otto105 (Apr 22, 2022)

Today in gun crazyland one finds...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/04/22/connecticut-avenue-shooting-dc/


----------



## SavannahMann (Apr 22, 2022)

What we need to do is increase taxes. Doubling them is probably a good start.

This money would be spent on prisons. Since it costs between $60k a year and $100k a year to hold an inmate in prison, and you want all these people locked up for pretty much ever. Well we need more prisons. And that is going to cost a ton of money. Have to raise taxes.

So which Hard Core Conservative is going to campaign on higher taxes to keep criminals locked up?


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 22, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And I will put you in the column that it is better the victim is raped, robbed, murdered, stabbed or beaten rather than protect themselves with a gun.





otto105 said:


> Today in gun crazyland one finds...
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/04/22/connecticut-avenue-shooting-dc/



_D.C……under total control by the democrat party…….likely the shooter has a criminal record a mile long, but we will see….and they have extreme gun control in the city……

Meanwhile, millions of normal gun owners didnt shoot at anyone and thousands used their legal guns to save lives.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 22, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> What we need to do is increase taxes. Doubling them is probably a good start.
> 
> This money would be spent on prisons. Since it costs between $60k a year and $100k a year to hold an inmate in prison, and you want all these people locked up for pretty much ever. Well we need more prisons. And that is going to cost a ton of money. Have to raise taxes.
> 
> So which Hard Core Conservative is going to campaign on higher taxes to keep criminals locked up?



Don’t need to raise taxes …just take the money they paid to get animals high and the other waste, fraud and abuse and use that money.

Or, we focus on keeping repeat gun offenders locked up instead of letting them go….you know , the democrats releasing the most violent criminals over and over again


----------



## SavannahMann (Apr 22, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Don’t need to raise taxes …just take the money they paid to get animals high and the other waste, fraud and abuse and use that money.
> 
> Or, we focus on keeping repeat gun offenders locked up instead of letting them go….you know , the democrats releasing the most violent criminals over and over again



They serve their sentences. And if released early are done so primarily because of overcrowding.

So we need more prisons. And that means more money. And that means we need to collect more taxes. Cutting waste won’t get a tenth of what we need. Just as higher MPG ratings don’t create a single ounce of oil.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Apr 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And I will put you in the column that it is better the victim is raped, robbed, murdered, stabbed or beaten rather than protect themselves with a gun.


Over 55 years later, still waiting.

I've put you in the 'dreaming' column.

You have this obsession to convince yourself, to repeat it so often, that you are delusional. Your love of guns is so bad, you just constantly lie and dream crap. Give yourself a shake.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 23, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> What we need to do is increase taxes. Doubling them is probably a good start.
> 
> This money would be spent on prisons. Since it costs between $60k a year and $100k a year to hold an inmate in prison, and you want all these people locked up for pretty much ever. Well we need more prisons. And that is going to cost a ton of money. Have to raise taxes.
> 
> So which Hard Core Conservative is going to campaign on higher taxes to keep criminals locked up?




What is it with you idiot democrats and raising taxes?    All we need to do is stop wasting money, and use it for the purposes it was taken for.....

100 billion dollars in covid relief was stolen......


*Criminals have stolen close to $100 billion in pandemic relief funds, the U.S. Secret Service said Tuesday.*
*The stolen funds were diverted by fraudsters from the Small Business Administration’s Paycheck Protection Program, the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program and a another program.*









						Criminals have stolen nearly $100 billion in Covid relief funds, Secret Service says
					

Criminals targeting pandemic relief funds have stolen close to $100 billion, the U.S. Secret Service said Tuesday.




					www.cnbc.com
				





Hmmm....that is just stolen covid relief....imagine all the other money wasted by government.....we have more than enough money already, we don't need to give idiots like you even more money in taxes for you to waste or steal.....

A federal prison costs between 98 and  162 million to build....and can hold up to 2,500 prisoners......

We have more than enough money to hold the most violent criminals.....we just have to keep the democrats from letting them out over and over again...



			https://oig.justice.gov/reports/BOP/a0232/final.pdf
		






__





						Federal Prison Security Levels — Federal Prison Time
					






					www.federalprisontime.com


----------



## SavannahMann (Apr 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> What is it with you idiot democrats and raising taxes?    All we need to do is stop wasting money, and use it for the purposes it was taken for.....
> 
> 100 billion dollars in covid relief was stolen......
> 
> ...



they are letting the criminals out who serve their sentences. Idiot.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 23, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> they are letting the criminals out who serve their sentences. Idiot.




No...moron, they aren't.......

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

*The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration. 

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.*

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


*supplying a firearm to a gang member,*

l
*felon obtaining a firearm,*

*discharging a firearm on school grounds
=========

5 gang members shooting at each other on a Chicago street, all caught on video by police cameras,  two of them left on the ground with bullets in them.........and kim foxx, democrat State's Attorney refused to press charges 

One person was killed and several others injured on Friday when a shootout broke out among alleged gang members in the Austin neighborhood that was caught on police cameras – but Foxx didn’t charge five suspects saying there was insufficient evidence.









						Chicago mayor, State Attorney Kim Foxx clash over deadly shootout
					

Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot ripped Cook County’s State Attorney Kim Foxx for not bringing charges in a deadly West Side shooting – and Foxx is retaliating.




					nypost.com
				



*


----------



## SavannahMann (Apr 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No...moron, they aren't.......
> 
> California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register
> 
> ...



And California Prisons are running at 137.5% of capacity.





__





						California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation Exits Last Out-of-State Prison - News Releases
					

Out-of-state prisons had been in use since 2006 to ease prison overcrowding  SACRAMENTO — In a major step toward fulfilling a promise made by Governor Gavin




					www.cdcr.ca.gov
				




There is no money to build new prisons. It costs $100k a year to house a prisoner.





__





						Legislative Analyst's Office
					






					lao.ca.gov
				




There are 122k prisoners. Now. Get your calculator out and figure out how much California is spending on prisoners and prisons.

How much more do they need to spend? How much more do they need to raise taxes?


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 23, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> And California Prisons are running at 137.5% of capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




100,000 well spent...

Again, you doofus.........take back just a tiny amount from the waste, fraud and abuse and we have more than enough money to keep violent rapists and murderers in jail and prison...


----------



## Vegasgiants (Apr 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> 100,000 well spent...
> 
> Again, you doofus.........take back just a tiny amount from the waste, fraud and abuse and we have more than enough money to keep violent rapists and murderers in jail and prison...


Alabana won't spend it


----------



## SavannahMann (Apr 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> 100,000 well spent...
> 
> Again, you doofus.........take back just a tiny amount from the waste, fraud and abuse and we have more than enough money to keep violent rapists and murderers in jail and prison...



So by reducing the penalty for just having a gun they can focus on keeping the actual rapists in prison for the rape?

I see the problem. You are an idiot.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Apr 23, 2022)

2aguy 

In the data year 2010, per 100,000 population, rapes in the US were 27.31 and in the UK 27.29.

Rape Statistics by Country 2022 

So just a very tiny difference between the two countries, yet you feel out of control gun distribution is what you guys need to solve your rape problem.

So guns against rape is a guise, guns for self defence is a guise.


----------



## 2aguy (Apr 23, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> 2aguy
> 
> In the data year 2010, per 100,000 population, rapes in the US were 27.31 and in the UK 27.29.
> 
> ...




And at that point, women were the smallest number of gun owners in this country......like many things, women have changed and are now the biggest sector of new gun owners.....

We have 330 million Americans, your island has 62 million........

*Self defense by the numbers....you twit...can you understand numbers that are more than the total of your fingers and toes?*

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,*
*----*
*The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.*
2021 National Firearms Survey


----------



## otto105 (Apr 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> _D.C……under total control by the democrat party…….likely the shooter has a criminal record a mile long, but we will see….and they have extreme gun control in the city……
> 
> Meanwhile, millions of normal gun owners didnt shoot at anyone and thousands used their legal guns to save lives.


Oh no....it's a conspiracy thing....


----------



## Captain Caveman (Apr 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And at that point, women were the smallest number of gun owners in this country......like many things, women have changed and are now the biggest sector of new gun owners.....
> 
> We have 330 million Americans, your island has 62 million........
> 
> ...


That's why the numbers quoted are per 100,000. So it doesn't matter if the population was a billion and the other country 1 million. To compare like for like, it's per 100,000. It's likely even less women in the UK own a gun, yet the stats are virtually the same between the US and UK so guns make no difference in the prevention of rape.

But good try Mr. Copy n Paste.


----------



## Blues Man (Apr 24, 2022)

White 6 said:


> He seems pro-gun (any kind) for everybody(no matter who), anywhere, all the time.  Sounds very much like the wild wild west of the late 1800s to when the population was 38 to 62 million people, but now we have about 330 million in the same space.  Many do not need to be carrying in the best interests of society, for one reason or another, but we do not know who they are until after the fact.  Then of course, they are easily identifiable.  Juvenile delinquents and criminals are identified.  These should never have weapons.  For this, I like stop, frisk, confiscate and or incarcerate.  That is just me.  I have no problem with stop and frisk, as I am fully licensed, background checked, and do not carry or possess illegal weapons, or stolen weapons.  I believe in training, certification, etc, but not in states that have used it as a money making scam to deprive normal citizens of their right, and yes, theses asshole states do exist.  Constitutional carry is not a great idea, but where the state has so screwed up gun rights as to make it a hurdle for normal people, it is the easiest and quickest way to make it so, not only criminals can carry weapons defensively.  Even with Republicans, it is quicker and cheaper to go with constitutional carry than to reign in the taxation and employment in place to maintain the hurdle system.  Republicans only cut income taxes not state taxes and fees, benefitting state coffers of government employment positions.


The wild west wasn't very wild.

You might want to get your history from academic sources and not movies and TV









						Ridiculous History: The Wild, Wild West Was Really the Mild, Mild West
					

We think the Wild West was a big shoot-'em-up, but statistically speaking, people of the wild frontier were more likely to encounter a handshake than a bullet.




					history.howstuffworks.com


----------



## Blues Man (Apr 24, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The real problem is giving the idiots that want a gun to shoot others under the guise of self defence.


You still spouting that bullshit.

Just because you think a person doesn't have the right to defend himself in no way means that he doesn't

Like I have told you umpteen times already our murder rate is what it is because the powers that be want it that way.


----------



## Blues Man (Apr 24, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Most shootings are between gangs and criminals themselves. All other incidents are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, and as you pointed out, most gun deaths are by suicide and not from the bizarre idea of self defence. If someone feels the need to shoot someone, the 2 amendment gave the right to both who were willing to shoot one another a firearm. Willing to shoot someone makes that's person a bad choice to have a firearm.
> 
> Why does insulting people you disagree with make you feel better about yourself?
> 
> M14 Shooter


And why is that?

It's because the fucking government doesn;t enforce the gun laws we have on the books that's why.  It has nothing to do with people who own guns legally


----------



## Blues Man (Apr 24, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> They serve their sentences. And if released early are done so primarily because of overcrowding.
> 
> So we need more prisons. And that means more money. And that means we need to collect more taxes. Cutting waste won’t get a tenth of what we need. Just as higher MPG ratings don’t create a single ounce of oil.


We do not need more prisons.  We need to reserve prisons for violent offenders and implement alternate sentencing for nonviolent and drug offenses


----------



## Captain Caveman (Apr 24, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> And why is that?
> 
> It's because the fucking government doesn;t enforce the gun laws we have on the books that's why.  It has nothing to do with people who own guns legally


Because gang members and criminals are scum retards. It's two things, law enforcement enforcing the laws, and those who own guns legally, have been checked that they're suitable in owning a gun, and that gun is a suitable size/calibre etc..

It's a cultural change and gun nuts definitely hate change.


----------



## Blues Man (Apr 24, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Because gang members and criminals are scum retards. It's two things, law enforcement enforcing the laws, and those who own guns legally, have been checked that they're suitable in owning a gun, and that gun is a suitable size/calibre etc..
> 
> It's a cultural change and gun nuts definitely hate change.


Don't let the FACTS get in the way.

The vast majority of those who LEGALLY own guns are not the problem so restricting those people from their ability to own firearms won't do JACK SHIT to lower the murder rate


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 6, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Would the lack of prison space to house all the shooters be a reason that would cover all the others as secondary reasons?
> 
> Suppose all shooters, including the Rittenhouses, were jailed and that increased the number of beds needed by double the current number.
> 
> ...


First, for the millionth time, Rittenhouse did nothing illegal or even morally wrong.  Second, move the low level offenders and drug users to a minimum security setup similar to a military basic training base to free up space in real penitentiaries for violent criminals.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 6, 2022)

otto105 said:


> The death penalty has never been proven to be a deterrent.


No punishment is a deterrent.  What the death penalty does is permanently remove someone from society who has proven he will not abide by the rules of a civil society.  Done properly it’s cheap and effective.  The only reason it’s expensive is that we have allowed a anti-death penalty industry to evolve that goes to incredible lengths to prevent executions.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jul 6, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> What we need to do is increase taxes. Doubling them is probably a good start.
> 
> This money would be spent on prisons. Since it costs between $60k a year and $100k a year to hold an inmate in prison, and you want all these people locked up for pretty much ever. Well we need more prisons. And that is going to cost a ton of money. Have to raise taxes.
> 
> So which Hard Core Conservative is going to campaign on higher taxes to keep criminals locked up?


Make the convicts work to pay for their keep.  Prison industry used to make all the furniture the federal government used and many prisons had farms to grow much of their own food.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 6, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> They serve their sentences. And if released early are done so primarily because of overcrowding.
> 
> So we need more prisons. And that means more money. And that means we need to collect more taxes. Cutting waste won’t get a tenth of what we need. Just as higher MPG ratings don’t create a single ounce of oil.


Or we need judges that don’t care if criminals are uncomfortable serving their sentences.  As far as I’m concerned, prisons should be as uncomfortable as possible.  No TV, no movies, no libraries, no law libraries, no workout areas just cells with concrete beds and foam rubber pads to speed on.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> What is it with you idiot democrats and raising taxes?    All we need to do is stop wasting money, and use it for the purposes it was taken for.....
> 
> 100 billion dollars in covid relief was stolen......
> 
> ...


We could save a metric ton of money by simply giving governmental managers a reward of a small percentage of whatever part of their budget they can save without missing their production metrics.  You’d have thousands of supervisors looking for ways to save the government money instead of looking for ways to spend it so their budgets wouldn’t get cut.


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## M14 Shooter (Jul 7, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Suppose all shooters, including the Rittenhouses, were jailed....


Why would you jail an innocent person?


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## SavannahMann (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> What is it with you idiot democrats and raising taxes?    All we need to do is stop wasting money, and use it for the purposes it was taken for.....
> 
> 100 billion dollars in covid relief was stolen......
> 
> ...



We keep hearing how there is more than enough money to do this. Then the next topic. There is more than enough to do that. 









						Fiscal Data Explains the National Deficit
					

Check out @FiscalService Fiscal Data’s new national deficit page! #NationalDeficit




					datalab.usaspending.gov
				




Of course for this plenty of money to appear. We have to cut spending in areas the Conservatives don’t approve of. Like Social Security at $1.1 Trillion. 

We can somehow magically cut waste and balance the budget. Sure we are talking about $2.75 Trillion more spent than we brought in. But we can cut that no problem. 






						Federal Spending by Category | U.S. Treasury Data Lab
					

This analysis allows you to explore U.S. spending by category or agency to see how the federal government spent money in 2021.



					datalab.usaspending.gov
				




Income Security is artificially high for that last year because of the Covid rebate checks. It’s in the small print lower down on the page. I mention it because you would start howling about how General Welfare doesn’t mean this. And it doesn’t if you ignore Article 1 Section 8. Although the Founders would disagree with you. But hey. Why worry about that? 






						Interpretation: The Spending Clause | Constitution Center
					

SECTION. 1. All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.



					constitutioncenter.org
				




Now the good news is that we Deficit Spent lower in 2021 than we did in 2020. However the enormity of the National Debt should be worrying to Republicans. And it will become an intolerable national issue if the Republicans do win Congress this fall. At least that is the pattern. Historically speaking. 



			https://www.usdebtclock.org/#
		


Somehow we are going to cut our way past the problem of $30 Trillion in total debt. 

Now. Help me understand something here. Why is conservation. Reducing the expenditure of oil a horrific idea? But reducing the spending on programs you detest to save our way out of trouble the only answer? 

We “need” new sources of oil. We need more oil. But apparently we don’t need more money.


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## otto105 (Jul 8, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> No punishment is a deterrent.  What the death penalty does is permanently remove someone from society who has proven he will not abide by the rules of a civil society.  Done properly it’s cheap and effective.  The only reason it’s expensive is that we have allowed a anti-death penalty industry to evolve that goes to incredible lengths to prevent executions.


Yeah, because we convict a lot of innocent people.


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## miketx (Jul 14, 2022)

otto105 said:


> We have gun crimes because we have guns.


No, we have crime due to scum like you letting criminals go.


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## otto105 (Jul 14, 2022)

miketx said:


> No we have crime due to scum like you letting criminals go.


We have easier crime because of the availability to guns.


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## miketx (Jul 14, 2022)

otto105 said:


> Yeah, because we convict a lot of innocent people.


yeah lair, all the people where I worked were innocent. They all said so. And damn near every one was a fucking democrat.


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## BackAgain (Jul 14, 2022)

Dims are in a dither. While they dislike even the idea of trying anybody for crimes (other than their merely political opponents regardless of the fact that the opponents didn’t commit any crime), and while they hate people being actually imprisoned, they can’t help but hear a bit back from honest citizens and other people that the crime rates are too high. 

How do they *both* side with their constituents — who don’t want the scumbags mixing with the rest of society — but yet oppose people being arrested for and convicted and imprisoned for committing the crimes?  Tough one. 

Their usual answer to misdirection. There’s no problem here (where there obviously IS a huge problem). Oh no. The “problem” is over there (where there isn’t much of any problem at all. It’s not about crime!  It’s about slowing men take over women’s athletics. Otherwise you’re a sexist transphobic racist pig!!  

Gun toting thugs aren’t the problem. The problem is that guns exist. Yeah yeah. That’s the ticket!


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## otto105 (Jul 14, 2022)

miketx said:


> yeah lair, all the people where I worked were innocent. They all said so. And damn near every one was a fucking democrat.


Did I post "all"?

I posted "a lot" of people especially minorities have been convicted even though they were innocent.


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## miketx (Jul 14, 2022)

otto105 said:


> Did I post "all"?
> 
> I posted "a lot" of people especially minorities have been convicted even though they were innocent.


Filth


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