# Unrest reported in Libya



## High_Gravity

> PARIS  The wave of turmoil and protests sweeping the Middle East appeared on Wednesday to have reached Libya, ruled for four decades by Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, according to news reports.
> 
> Related
> The Lede Blog: Latest Updates on Middle East Protests (February 16, 2011) The eruption of violence in Libyas second city, Benghazi, was not reported in the state-run media, which said rallies would be held Wednesday in support of Colonel Qaddafi  a tactic reflecting the pro-government demonstrations unleashed on protests in Egypt and Yemen.
> 
> Resorting to a time-honored technique among Arab leaders, Colonel Qaddafi tried to deflect attention to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, delivering a speech Wednesday urging Arabs to join in a mass march on Israel. He also reportedly said he would like to join the Libyan protesters himself, to improve the performance of a government that he professes not to have a hand in running.
> 
> Quryna, a privately owned newspaper in Benghazi, said a crowd armed with gasoline bombs and rocks protested outside a government office to demand the release of a human rights activist, Reuters reported. The demonstrators, numbering at least several hundred and possibly more, went to the central Shajara Square and clashed with police.




http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/world/middleeast/17libya.html?_r=1&hp


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## Toro

Fascinating stuff.


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## Jos

Libya protests: Al-Bayda security chief 'sacked'


> A regional head of security has been removed from his post following clashes with protesters in the Libyan town of al-Bayda on Wednesday which left several people dead, local media say.


BBC News - Libya protests: Al-Bayda security chief &#039;sacked&#039;


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## High_Gravity

> The fact that protests in Libya continue despite the killing of at least four demonstrators since Tuesday suggests that Muammar Gaddafi could be facing the most sustained challenge yet to his 41-year rule. But there are crucial differences between Libya and its neighbors, Tunisia and Egypt, where the overthrow of dictators since the New Year has passed largely peacefully, and Gaddafi's regime is unlikely to fall without a bloody fight.
> 
> Armed pro-government demonstrators clashed with Gaddafi opponents on what opposition groups had dubbed a "Day of Rage", Thursday, and the AP has reported dissidents claiming that at least 14 people have been killed in the clashes. Earlier, human-rights organizations and Libyan exile groups said they feared demonstrators could face a lethal crackdown from security forces.



Read more: Blood Flows as Libya's Gaddafi Cracks Down on Protest - TIME


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## High_Gravity

> (CAIRO) &#8212; Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi drove through his nation's capital in a motorcade, drawing a cheering crowd as the long-time ruler tried to rally support amid reports of widening anti-government protests.
> 
> Protests have erupted in several cities in Libya this week, especially in the east, and the U.S.-based Human Rights Watch said Friday that 24 people were killed in unrest on Wednesday and Thursday.
> 
> Gaddafi's open-roofed car slowly made its way through the streets of the capital Tripoli late Thursday. In footage broadcast by Libyan TV, the motorcade was thronged by cheering supporters. Some pushed toward the car to try to reach Gaddafi and shake hands. "We do not want any other leader but Gaddafi!" one woman shouted.
> 
> In the eastern city of Benghazi, hundreds of protesters camped out Friday in the center of the city. Calls to join funeral processions for those killed in clashes with pro-government forces spread on Facebook and websites.
> 
> One of the protesters, Nizar Jebail, owner of an advertising company, said he spent the night in front of the city's court building. He said he wants not just reforms, "but freedom and equality."
> 
> "There are lawyers, judges, men and some women here, demanding the ouster of Gaddafi. Forty-two years of dictatorship are enough," he told The Associated Press by phone.
> 
> "We don't have tents yet but residents provided us with blankets and food. We learned from Tunisia and Egypt," he said.




Read more: Gaddafi Rallies Supporters amid Widening Protests - TIME


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## California Girl

Meanwhile, in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is positioning itself to lead an 'Islamic Democracy'. For anyone who does not see the problem with that, I pity you.


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## High_Gravity

California Girl said:


> Meanwhile, in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is positioning itself to lead an 'Islamic Democracy'. For anyone who does not see the problem with that, I pity you.



If thats true the life of normal Egyptians will get 10 times worse, there are no governments run by Islamic Extremists that offer civil rights and economic opportunities for their people. I have a feeling people are going to long for the days of Mubarak.


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## JOEBIALEK

This letter is in response to the articles covering the civil unrest
occurring in Libya.

As a citizen of and believer in democracy, I applaud the efforts of the
Libyan people.  Their efforts are similar to what is happening in Yemen,
Algeria and Bahrain as well as the most recent revolutions in Egypt and 
Tunisia.

Believe it or not, one thing that trumps capitalism and political
correctness in the United States is the right to have one's voice heard.
This is the foundation of which our democracy is built on.  The Libyan
people should continue to defy Moammar Gadhafi's powerful
security forces so that Libyan democracy can begin to thrive.   It is
unfortunate that the United States compromised on one of its most
fundamental values in order to protect its economic interests in the
Middle East; something that happens all too often domestically as well.
It is not the Libyan people that are attempting to seize power but rather
it is those currently in power who have engaged in intimidation to prevent
the will of the people from being heard.  Why else would they stoop to such
underhanded tactics to block various means of communication among the
citizens of Libya?  Why is the government in power utilizing such
political strong-arm tactics as the use of violence?

Moammar Gadhafi, you have had forty-two years to lead Libya and have
failed them by your own choosing.  The days of the despotic regime are
finally coming to an end as it appears the desire for freedom will continue
to sweep among the Arab nations.  Accordingly, let the call go forth among 
all citizens of Libya that your brothers and sisters of democracy from all
over the world are with you during every trial and tribulation you may
encounter during this crisis. To the people of Libya, the trumpet of
freedom beckons you to rise in protest and ensure your voice to preserve
your sacred heritage, promote your children's future and obtain the
blessings of liberty we all cherish.  Moammar Gadhafi, let the people
go!

JOE BIALEK
Cleveland, OH USA


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## waltky

Libya massacres 100 peaceful protesters...

*Libya, Yemen crack down; Bahrain pulls back tanks*
_Feb 19,`11 -- Security forces in Libya and Yemen fired on pro-democracy demonstrators Saturday as the two hard-line regimes struck back against the wave of protests that has already toppled autocrats in Egypt and Tunisia. At least 15 died when police shot into crowds of mourners in Libya's second-largest city, a hospital official said._


> Even as Bahrain's king bowed to international pressure and withdrew tanks to allow demonstrators to retake a symbolic square in the capital, Libya's Moammar Gadhafi and Yemen's Ali Abdullah Saleh made clear they plan to stamp out opposition and not be dragged down by the reform movements that have grown in nations from Algeria to Djibouti to Jordan.  Libyans returned to the street for a fifth straight day of protests against Gadhafi, the most serious uprising in his 42-year reign, despite estimates by human rights groups of 84 deaths in the North African country - with 35 on Friday alone.
> 
> Saturday's deaths, which would push the overall toll to 99, occurred when snipers fired on thousands of mourners in Benghazi, a focal point of unrest, as they attended the funerals of other protesters, a hospital official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.  "Many of the dead and the injured are relatives of doctors here," he told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "They are crying and I keep telling them to please stand up and help us."
> 
> Earlier, special forces had attacked hundreds of demonstrators, including lawyers and judges, who were camped out in front of a courthouse in Benghazi, Libya's second-largest city.  Authorities also cut off the Internet across Libya, further isolating the country. Just after 2 a.m. local time in Libya, the U.S.-based Arbor Networks security company detected a total cessation of online traffic. Protesters confirmed they could not get online.
> 
> Reports could not be independently confirmed. Information is tightly controlled in Libya, where journalists cannot work freely, and activists this week have posted videos on the Internet that have been an important source of images of the revolt. Other information about the protests has come from opposition activists in exile.
> 
> MORE



See also:

*Nearly 100 killed in Libyan crackdown on unrest*
_Feb 19,`11 -- Libyan forces opened fire on mourners leaving a funeral for protesters Saturday in the flashpoint city of Benghazi, and a medical official said 15 people were killed, with bodies piling up in a hospital and doctors collapsing in grief at the sight of dead relatives._


> The deaths pushed the overall estimated death toll to 99 in five days of unprecedented protests against the 42-year reign of Moammar Gadhafi. Government forces also wiped out a protest encampment and clamped down on Internet service throughout the North African nation.  As relatives buried their dead, they fell victim to a mixture of special commandos, foreign mercenaries and Gadhafi loyalists armed with knives, Kalashnikovs and even anti-aircraft missiles trying to quell the demonstrations, witnesses said.
> 
> "The blood of our martyrs is still leaking from coffins over the shoulders of the mourners," one female protester, who is also a lawyer, said while standing in front of about 20 coffins lined up in front of the Northern Court building in Benghazi, Libya's second-largest city and the epicenter of the current unrest.  Before Saturday's violence, Human Rights Watch had estimated at least 84 people have been killed.
> 
> Hospitals ran low on medical supplies and were packed with bodies shot in the chest and head, said the medical official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of fears of reprisal.  "Many of the dead and the injured are relatives of doctors here," the official, who provided the figure of 15 dead, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "They are crying, and I keep telling them to please stand up and help us."
> 
> Information is tightly controlled in Libya, where journalists cannot work freely, and some of the accounts could not be independently confirmed. Other information comes from opposition activists in exile.
> 
> MORE


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## Jos

Libya17Feb - live streaming video powered by Livestream
Says oil fields attacked


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## Mr. H.

Holy shit that's wild. There's a chat window with the feed. Very sobering.


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## Mr. H.

People are warning NOT to click on links in chat window as they have planted viruses.


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## Mr. H.

Some posters saying Gadaffi captured?
Oil on fire?


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## Mr. H.

Check it out while you can- I bet this will be taken offline soon.


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## Mini 14

A female Doctor is whipping the crowd into a frenzy now.....
 "40 years of tyranny".....

Scary shit.


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## Mr. H.

Agents in chatroom.
Someone trying to translate.
Someone posting phone # to CNN Atlanta. 

Interesting.


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## Mr. H.

Young men falling like fall leaves.

Heavy police presence.

No shit folks- check it out-


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## Mini 14

She was appealing for help from the Tripolians.

That is a real powderkeg.....looks and sounds like complete chaos.


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## Jos

Type in a message, choose a nik and let them know the world is watching


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## Mr. H.

Gadaffi's house in Zawia?


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## Mr. H.

Just lost video feed but chat window still going.


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## Mini 14

This is not good.


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## Mr. H.

Nothing on msm that I can find. Either this is no big deal, or news outlets are trying to get some verifyable confirmation on what's going on.


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## Jos

Gaddafi house burnt down in Zawia


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## Mr. H.

Gaddafi's palace in Zawia on fire?


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## Mini 14

The chat is spam now.....

Just a bunch of hackers fighting with each other. 

That was scary stuff....makes Egypt look like the Girl Scouts.


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## Mr. H.

"SOS to the world from Libya"

rumors of Gaddafi fleeing.

I dunno.


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## Mr. H.

Mini 14 said:


> The chat is spam now.....
> 
> Just a bunch of hackers fighting with each other.
> 
> That was scary stuff....makes Egypt look like the Girl Scouts.



Yeah the chat slowed way down.
Wow that was exciting.


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## Jos

back up again


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## Mini 14

Government burning documents?


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## Jos

The people of Bengazzi now have got weapons


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## Jos

Confirmed: BIRKA barracks has now fallen,  they have asked benghazi if they can leave peacefully 8 minutes ago
There are reports of troops from Zimbabwe landing at airport, protesters waiting to meet them, and they have weapons taken from the barracks


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## Jos

Director of Military Intelligence Abdulla Sannusi has reportedly been arrested by the protesters in bengazzi


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## Intense

Merged


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## Intense

CAIRO &#8211; The son of longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi warned in a nationally televised address that continued anti-government protests that have wracked Libya for six days might lead to a civil war that could send the country's oil wells up in flames.

Appearing on Libyan state television after midnight Sunday, Seif al-Islam Gadhafi said the army still backed his father, who was leading the fight, although he added that some military bases, tanks and weapons had been seized.

"We are not Tunisia and Egypt," the younger Gadhafi said, referring to the successful uprisings that toppled longtime regimes in Libya's neighbors.

He acknowledged that the army made mistakes during protests because it was not trained to deal with demonstrators but added that the number of dead had been exaggerated, giving a death toll of 84. Human Rights Watch put the number at 174 through Saturday, and doctors in the eastern city of Benghazi said more than 200 have died since the protests began.

Gadhafi's son warns of civil war in Libya - Yahoo! News


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## L.K.Eder

some defect to malta

some don't.

airstrikes in tripoli

Live Blog - Libya | Al Jazeera Blogs


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## Tom Clancy

That's fucked up.

I hear Gaddafi is heading out to Venezuela.


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## Mad Scientist

I can't seen to find video (or audio) of that Pinkard & Bowden tune "Libyan on a Jet Plane". 

So just the lyrics will have to do. Sung to the tune of "Leavin' on a Jet Plane"



> There's so many times we've crashed and burned,
> Seems like the colonel would finally learn
> Our Russian jets don't make good submarines.
> We fly out to protect our nation
> And use seat bottoms for floatation.
> The water's warm, and we're good swimmers too.
> 
> So kiss me and smile for me,
> Call my folks in Tripoli,
> Tell them that Khadafi made me go.
> I'm a Libyan on a jet plane,
> I don't know if I'll be back again.
> Muammar, I hate to go.
> 
> Aircraft carrier J.F.K
> Come to blow our chemical plant away
> But we keep telling them it's just pharmaceutical.
> 
> So miss me and pray for me
> Bow down to the East for me
> Kneel and gently kiss my butt good-bye
> I'm a Libyan on a jet plane,
> Don't know if I'll be back again.
> Libyan on a jet plane,
> Don't know if I'll be back again


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## High_Gravity

The younger Ghadaffi is fighting for his birth right, he was born, raised and groomed to lead this country. He doesn't strike me as one to let go of his birth right without a fight, I am worried about Libya falling to the Islamists though.


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## High_Gravity

Damn Ghaddafi looks so vulnerable in that hat with an umbrella, none of the usual swagger and bravado.



> Libya tipped towards all-out civil war on Tuesday, as the chaos from a week-long revolt deepened, with reports of bodies lying in the streets of the capital Tripoli and parts of eastern Libya entirely out of the control of Muammar Gaddafi's regime. With Gaddafi's hold on power looking increasingly tenuous, human-rights groups and exile organizations say it is now impossible to calculate how many have been killed during the past week, although their estimates easily exceed 400.
> 
> With events accelerating, Gaddafi's 42 years in power appear to be unraveling at lightning speed, buckling under several pressure points: Deep divisions within the military, which has launched air, naval and ground attacks against unarmed protesters; a stampede of defections among top officials; and a collapse of the regime's credibility internationally, let alone among many of its own citizens.
> 
> As rumors intensified that Gaddafi had fled the country, the leader appeared for a few seconds on state-run Libyan television at about 1 a.m. Tuesday morning. He appeared to be in front of his compound in Tripoli's western suburbs, which still bears the damage done to it by a U.S. aerial bombardment in 1986, the scars acting as a show of defiance against those who have long wished to see the back of him. I am in Tripoli not in Venezuela," he said as he climbed into a vehicle, awkwardly holding a huge gray umbrella.


Read more: Chaos and Bloodshed Continue as Gaddafi Loses His Grip on Power - TIME


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## editec

May the same fate happen to all the world's dicatators.

The ARAB world is waking up, folks.


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## High_Gravity

I don't know if I buy this, Saddam said the same thing and he ended up going with US Forces without a fight. These dictators only care about themselves and will not martyr themselves for anything.

Libya: Gadhafi vows to fight on, die a martyr









> CAIRO  Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi vowed to fight on to his "last drop of blood" and roared at his supporters to take to the streets against protesters demanding his ouster, shouting and pounding his fist in a furious speech Tuesday after two nights of a bloody crackdown in the capital trying to crush the uprising that has fragmented his regime.
> 
> It was the second time Gadhafi has appeared during the week of upheaval across his country. Swathed in brown robes and a turban, he spoke on state TV from behind a podium in the entrance of his bombed-out Tripoli residence hit by U.S. airstrikes in the 1980s and left unrepaired as a monument of defiance.
> 
> At times the camera panned back to show a towering monument of a gold-colored fist crushing an American fighter jet, outside the building. But at the same time, the view gave a surreal image of the Libyan leader, shouting and waving his arms wildly all alone in a broken-down lobby with no audience, surrounded by broken tiles dangling from the ceiling, shattered conrete pillars and bare plumbing pipes.
> 
> "Libya wants glory, Libya wants to be at the pinnacle, at the pinnacle of the world," he proclaimed, pounding his fist on the podium. "I am a fighter, a revolutionary from tents ... I will die as a martyr at the end," he said, vowing to fight "to my last drop of blood."



Libya: Gadhafi vows to fight on, die a martyr - Yahoo! News


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## L.K.Eder

High_Gravity said:


> I don't know if I buy this, Saddam said the same thing and he ended up going with US Forces without a fight. These dictators only care about themselves and will not martyr themselves for anything.
> 
> Libya: Gadhafi vows to fight on, die a martyr
> 
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> CAIRO  Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi vowed to fight on to his "last drop of blood" and roared at his supporters to take to the streets against protesters demanding his ouster, shouting and pounding his fist in a furious speech Tuesday after two nights of a bloody crackdown in the capital trying to crush the uprising that has fragmented his regime.
> 
> It was the second time Gadhafi has appeared during the week of upheaval across his country. Swathed in brown robes and a turban, he spoke on state TV from behind a podium in the entrance of his bombed-out Tripoli residence hit by U.S. airstrikes in the 1980s and left unrepaired as a monument of defiance.
> 
> At times the camera panned back to show a towering monument of a gold-colored fist crushing an American fighter jet, outside the building. But at the same time, the view gave a surreal image of the Libyan leader, shouting and waving his arms wildly all alone in a broken-down lobby with no audience, surrounded by broken tiles dangling from the ceiling, shattered conrete pillars and bare plumbing pipes.
> 
> "Libya wants glory, Libya wants to be at the pinnacle, at the pinnacle of the world," he proclaimed, pounding his fist on the podium. "I am a fighter, a revolutionary from tents ... I will die as a martyr at the end," he said, vowing to fight "to my last drop of blood."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Gadhafi vows to fight on, die a martyr - Yahoo! News
Click to expand...


on the other hand





it's gaddafi!


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## High_Gravity

L.K.Eder said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if I buy this, Saddam said the same thing and he ended up going with US Forces without a fight. These dictators only care about themselves and will not martyr themselves for anything.
> 
> Libya: Gadhafi vows to fight on, die a martyr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CAIRO &#8211; Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi vowed to fight on to his "last drop of blood" and roared at his supporters to take to the streets against protesters demanding his ouster, shouting and pounding his fist in a furious speech Tuesday after two nights of a bloody crackdown in the capital trying to crush the uprising that has fragmented his regime.
> 
> It was the second time Gadhafi has appeared during the week of upheaval across his country. Swathed in brown robes and a turban, he spoke on state TV from behind a podium in the entrance of his bombed-out Tripoli residence hit by U.S. airstrikes in the 1980s and left unrepaired as a monument of defiance.
> 
> At times the camera panned back to show a towering monument of a gold-colored fist crushing an American fighter jet, outside the building. But at the same time, the view gave a surreal image of the Libyan leader, shouting and waving his arms wildly all alone in a broken-down lobby with no audience, surrounded by broken tiles dangling from the ceiling, shattered conrete pillars and bare plumbing pipes.
> 
> "Libya wants glory, Libya wants to be at the pinnacle, at the pinnacle of the world," he proclaimed, pounding his fist on the podium. "I am a fighter, a revolutionary from tents ... I will die as a martyr at the end," he said, vowing to fight "to my last drop of blood."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Gadhafi vows to fight on, die a martyr - Yahoo! News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> on the other hand
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> it's gaddafi!
Click to expand...


I still don't buy it, hes not the one out there on the streets fighting the protestors. If it comes to it he will be on a beach in Venezuela with several Latinas in skimpy bikinis before he stands trial in Libya for human rights violations.


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## idb

He's a nutjob and he'll do anything to hang onto power.
He's sending strike aircraft and helicopters against his own people FFS!!!

His own diplomats and beauracrats are abandoning him.
It will need the army to turn against him before it stops.
I just hope they do it soon.

What a disaster for Libya that bloke is!


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## idb

California Girl said:


> Meanwhile, in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is positioning itself to lead an 'Islamic Democracy'. For anyone who does not see the problem with that, I pity you.



These movements are apparently being driven by a popular uprising of young people.
They're demanding representation, freedoms and democracy and have seemingly achieved what they wanted up to date.

This can't be good news for the Islamic fundamentalists such as Al Qaeda(and allegedly the Brotherhood) who need dis-satisfaction with the staus quo to garner support from the population - why would people turn to the fundamentalists that only promise more repression when they are currently so full of hope and expectation, and have already seen the result of embracing an 'Islamic revolution' in places like Iran and Afghanistan.

Despite what we might think, the people in the Middle East and North Africa aren't all sheep, mindlessly following the imams to martyrdom and paradise - they're people.
They've bravely stood up for what they think they deserve - now that they have it, why would they allow it to be taken from them?


That's my hope anyway.


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## Trajan

yea well, we have moved from "unrest" to bloodbath. 


The army air force  is following hos orders, and considering the factious tribal elements in Libya, this is not surprising, ( think Rwanda with better armaments and a determined head of state) hes got his people in place and, he says he will go down with the ship......so......


N. Africa, Mideast protests &#8211; Gadhafi: I'm still here &#8211; This Just In - CNN.com Blogs


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## Jos

YouTube- Gaddafi's speech excerpts Video


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## High_Gravity

idb said:


> He's a nutjob and he'll do anything to hang onto power.
> He's sending strike aircraft and helicopters against his own people FFS!!!
> 
> His own diplomats and beauracrats are abandoning him.
> It will need the army to turn against him before it stops.
> I just hope they do it soon.
> 
> What a disaster for Libya that bloke is!



Saddam did the same thing when the Kurds and Shites had an uprising after the Gulf War in 91, Ghaddafi is cut from the same cloth so I expect no less from him.


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## High_Gravity

Ghaddafi has hired Black African Mercenaries to fight for him.




> In 2008, Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi invited 200 kings and traditional rulers from sub-Saharan, mainly non-Arab Africa to witness his crowning of as the continent's "King of Kings." Currently, however, his links to sub-Saharan Africa are more violently mercenary than wackily ceremonial as consistent reports emerge that he is using fighters from that region to quell the nationwide uprising against his regime.
> 
> *Videos and photographs have surfaced on YouTube and other websites of columns of uniformed black African soldiers driving in jeeps through Tripoli and patrolling the streets of the Libyan capital. Other videos show the bodies of several dead, black African men killed by the protestors, including the corpses of two men being paraded on the hood of a car and driven through a crowd of demonstrators in al-Baida. Another video shows a black African man, who has been caught by the demonstrators, being hit and punched. A protestor asks: "Who is giving you orders?" The man replies: "They come from up high. I swear, I swear...orders, orders." The protestor asks: "They told you to fire at us"? The man replies: "Yes, yes."*



Read more: Muammar Gaddafi's Delusions of African Grandeur - TIME


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## High_Gravity

The Libyans are not scared of Ghaddafi anymore.


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## High_Gravity

I am worried the Libyans will take out their wrath on the Africans living in Libya since Ghaddafi is using African mercenaries to hurt the Libyan people.


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## Kalam

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTqCAOsUsMY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTqCAOsUsMY[/ame]

(At 0:36)



			
				Shaykh Qaradawi said:
			
		

> &#1571;&#1606;&#1575; &#1571;&#1601;&#1578;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1590;&#1576;&#1575;&#1591; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1606;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1584;&#1610;&#1606; &#1610;&#1587;&#1578;&#1591;&#1610;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606; &#1571;&#1606; &#1610;&#1602;&#1578;&#1604;&#1608;&#1575; &#1605;&#1593;&#1605;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1584;&#1575;&#1601;&#1610;: &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1591;&#1575;&#1593; &#1605;&#1606;&#1607;&#1605; &#1571;&#1606; &#1610;&#1591;&#1604;&#1602; &#1585;&#1589;&#1575;&#1589;&#1577; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607;&#1548; &#1608;&#1610;&#1585;&#1610;&#1581; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1604;&#1575;&#1583; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1576;&#1575;&#1583; &#1605;&#1606;&#1607; &#1601;&#1604;&#1610;&#1601;&#1593;&#1604;



_"I [issue a fatwa to] the officers and soldiers who are able to kill Mu'ammar al-Gaddafi: Whoever of them is able to shoot a bullet at him and relieve the country and the people, let him do it."_​
A 2009 readers' poll in _Foreign Policy_ ranked the Shaykh 3rd on a list of "The World&#8217;s Top 20 Public Intellectuals":

The World


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## High_Gravity

Who is this Shaykh?


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## Kalam

He's a fairly influential scholar who is affiliated with a number of religious organizations and councils, including the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yusuf al-Qaradawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Ropey

Kalam said:


> He's a fairly influential scholar who is affiliated with a number of religious organizations and councils, including the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> Yusuf al-Qaradawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



What does he say about this?


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## High_Gravity

Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli 










> BENGHAZI, Libya  Leader Moammar Gadhafi says al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden is behind the uprising in Libya and al-Qaida followers give young Libyans hallucinogenic pills in their coffee to get them to revolt.
> 
> 
> Gadhafi has made the comments in a phone call to Libyan state TV Thursday, expressing condolences for deaths in the city of Zawiya but chiding its residents for joining the rebellion.
> 
> He says those revolting are "loyal to bin Laden ... This is al-Qaida that the whole world is fighting."
> 
> He says al-Qaida militants are "exploiting" teenagers, giving them "hallucinogenic pills in their coffee with milk, like Nescafe."
> 
> Witnesses said 10 people were killed when pro-Gadhafi forces attacked opponents at a mosque in Zawiya, east of Tripoli.



Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli


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## idb

High_Gravity said:


> Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli
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> 
> 
> BENGHAZI, Libya  Leader Moammar Gadhafi says al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden is behind the uprising in Libya and al-Qaida followers give young Libyans hallucinogenic pills in their coffee to get them to revolt.
> 
> 
> Gadhafi has made the comments in a phone call to Libyan state TV Thursday, expressing condolences for deaths in the city of Zawiya but chiding its residents for joining the rebellion.
> 
> He says those revolting are "loyal to bin Laden ... This is al-Qaida that the whole world is fighting."
> 
> He says al-Qaida militants are "exploiting" teenagers, giving them "hallucinogenic pills in their coffee with milk, like Nescafe."
> 
> Witnesses said 10 people were killed when pro-Gadhafi forces attacked opponents at a mosque in Zawiya, east of Tripoli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli
Click to expand...


Oh, then, in that case what else was Gaddafi to do?
Clearly his response to the protestors has been entirely reasonable.


----------



## High_Gravity

idb said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BENGHAZI, Libya  Leader Moammar Gadhafi says al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden is behind the uprising in Libya and al-Qaida followers give young Libyans hallucinogenic pills in their coffee to get them to revolt.
> 
> 
> Gadhafi has made the comments in a phone call to Libyan state TV Thursday, expressing condolences for deaths in the city of Zawiya but chiding its residents for joining the rebellion.
> 
> He says those revolting are "loyal to bin Laden ... This is al-Qaida that the whole world is fighting."
> 
> He says al-Qaida militants are "exploiting" teenagers, giving them "hallucinogenic pills in their coffee with milk, like Nescafe."
> 
> Witnesses said 10 people were killed when pro-Gadhafi forces attacked opponents at a mosque in Zawiya, east of Tripoli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, then, in that case what else was Gaddafi to do?
> Clearly his response to the protestors has been entirely reasonable.
Click to expand...


Asking fighter pilots to bomb unarmed protestors in reasonable? having hired guns from Africa kill his own people in reasonable? really?


----------



## idb

High_Gravity said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya Protests: Gaddafi Forces Strike Back At Revolt Near Tripoli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, then, in that case what else was Gaddafi to do?
> Clearly his response to the protestors has been entirely reasonable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Asking fighter pilots to bomb unarmed protestors in reasonable? having hired guns from Africa kill his own people in reasonable? really?
Click to expand...


They were drinking Nescafe coffee...there was no way of reasoning with them.


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Repulsed: The Rebels Hold Brega, for Now









> In Brega, the sound of gunfire and sirens fill the air as ambulances rush through the streets of the oil refinery town as the forces of "Free Libya" try to blunt a counter-attack by Colonel Muammar Gaddafi who is intent on taking back lost territory. Witnesses told TIME that the battle had taken up a 150 kilometer stretch between Brega and the next significant town to the west, Ras Lanuf. At 5:30 p.m. Libya time, the battle front was the local university in Brega, which Gaddafi's planes had already bombed from the air, and where regime forces were surrounded by the rebels. Human Rights Watch director of emergencies Peter Bouckert, who was at the front lines with the "Free Libya" forces earlier in the day, told TIME that the rebels didn't really know how to operate rocket-propelled grenades when the fighting started. They were facing off against what was reported to Gaddafi forces including 75 trucks mounted with anti-aircraft guns. But the rebels were reinforced with their own anti-aircraft guns and, even though they were just as inexperienced at handling them, seemed then to get better control of the ground battle. By a quarter to 6 p.m., word spread that the "Free Libyan" forces had retaken the town from the regime, including the university and the western section where much of the fighting has taken place. Celebratory gunfire filled the air. But about 20 minutes later, the regime launched an airstrike against the celebration. Meanwhile, dozens of trucks continued to move reinforcements to Brega. The fight is definitely not over.



Read more: Gaddafi Repulsed: The Rebels Hold Brega, for Now - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

3 Dutch marines held in Libya after failed rescue



> THE HAGUE, Netherlands  Armed forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi captured three Dutch marines and their helicopter during a botched evacuation mission near a stronghold of the Libyan leader, the Defense Ministry said Thursday.
> 
> Libyan authorities are still holding the marines five days after they were seized Sunday by armed men after landing near Sirte in a Lynx helicopter from the navy ship HMS Tromp. The ship was anchored off the Libyan coast to help evacuations from the conflict-torn country, spokesman Otte Beeksma told The Associated Press.
> 
> Two Europeans, one Dutch and one whose nationality was not released, were also captured. They were handed over unharmed to the Dutch embassy in Tripoli early Thursday and have left Libya, the ministry said.
> 
> Prime Minister Mark Rutte said his government authorized the mission.
> 
> Dutch officials are in "intensive negotiations" with Gadhafi's government to secure the marines' release, he said.
> 
> "We have also been in contact with the crewmen involved," Beeksma said. "They are doing well under the circumstances and we hope they will be released as quickly as possible."
> 
> Defense Minister Hans Hillen welcomed the news that the two Europeans were safe and had left Libya. "Everything is being done to also get the crew safely out of the country as soon as possible," he said in a statement.
> 
> Asked if the Dutch government considered the marines hostages, Beeksma said, "they are being held by Libyan authorities."




3 Dutch marines held in Libya after failed rescue - Yahoo! News


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

TRIPOLI, Libya  Moammar Gadhafi's forces launched a powerful attack trying to take back the closest opposition-held city to the Libyan capital on Friday, in fierce fighting that killed at least 18, including the city's top rebel commander  an army colonel who defected. In Tripoli, Gadhafi loyalists fired tear gas and live ammunition to smother a new outbreak of protests.

To the east, rebels advanced on an oil port along the Mediterranean coast in their first offensive against Gadhafi's military. Explosions were heard as the two sides battled around the air strip at Ras Lanouf, residents said.
The fighting underlined how both sides are pushing against the deadlock that has gripped Libya's 18-day-old upheaval. The rebellion has broken away the entire eastern half of the country from Gadhafi's control and has swept over several cities in the west close to the capital.

So far, Gadhafi has had little success in taking back territory, with several rebel cities repelling assaults in the past weeks. But the opposition forces have seemed unable to go on the offensive to march on areas still under. Meanwhile, in Tripoli  Gadhafi's most important bastion  his loyalists have waged a campaign of terror to ensure that protesters do not rise up in significant numbers.

Friday's assault on the rebel city of Zawiya, about 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli, appeared to be the strongest yet by Gadhafi's forces after repeated earlier forays against it were beaten back.

*In the morning, troops from the elite Khamis Brigade  named after the son of Gadhafi who commands it * bombarded the city's western edges with mortars, heavy machine guns, tanks and anti-aircraft guns, several residents said. By the evening, they had also opened a front on the eastern side. Armed Zawiya citizens backed by allied army units were fighting back.

Gadhafi troops attack rebel city, lockdown capital - Yahoo! News


----------



## dilloduck

It doesn't appear as if nations minds watching them kill each other off. Everyone's got some excuse for not intervening.
One question----all these humantiarain groups--who do they expect to put and end to it ?


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Tear Gas Fired as Protesters March 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi have fired tear gas at protesters marching in the capital Tripoli, calling for the Libyan leader's ouster.
> 
> The security forces fired at least five cannisters of tear gas at the crowd of around 1,500 protesters in the Tripoli district of Tajoura. The crowd briefly scattered, but rejoined to continue their march, according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene.
> 
> Before the marches, pro-Gaddafi forces set up checkpoints in the neighborhood. Last week, similar protests were met by a brutal crackdown, when militiamen opened fire on demonstrators moments after they began their marches.
> 
> Earlier, fighters loyal to Gaddafi set up checkpoints in Tripoli, searching cars, ahead of planned anti-government protests Friday, raising fears of new bloodshed in the Libyan capital where a heavy crackdown the past week has spread fear among residents.
> 
> The opposition has called for protesters to march out of mosques after noon prayers in demonstrations demanding Gaddafi's ouster. Similar protests last Friday were met by brutal retaliation: Pro-regime militiamen opened fire immediately on the marches, killing and wounding a still unknown number.
> 
> Internet services, which have been spotty throughout Libya's upheaval, appeared to be halted completely in Tripoli on Friday, as well as in Benghazi, the opposition's stronghold in the east. The extent of the cutoff was not clear.
> 
> Control of the capital is crucial to the Libyan leader, since it remains his strongest remaining bastion amid the uprising that began on Feb. 15 and has broken the entire eastern half of Libya out of his control. Even some cities in the west near Tripoli have fallen to the uprising, and the opposition has repelled repeated attacks by pro-Gaddafi forces trying to take back the territories.




Read more: Forces Fire Tear Gas as Libya Protesters March - TIME


----------



## waltky

Tom wrote: _I hear Gaddafi is heading out to Venezuela._

Mebbe Jimmy Carter can join `em...
 
*Hugo Chávez stands by his man, Muammar Qaddafi. But can he bring peace to Libya?*
_March 3, 2011 - Venezuela's Hugo Chávez has proposed a 'Peace Commission' to mediate Libya's civil conflict. Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa today said the offer is 'under consideration.'_


> Unusually quiet at the start of the Libyan crisis, Venezuelas President Hugo Chávez is back in form warning of US plots to invade the oil-rich African nation and proposing a Peace Commission to mediate the situation.  We cannot be led forward by the drums of war, Mr. Chávez said earlier this week. Because the United States, I am certain, is exaggerating and distorting the issue to justify an invasion.
> 
> Let the world not be quick to break relations with Libya or deploy military forces, he seemed to be saying, months after he himself broke relations with neighboring Colombia and sent troops to their shared border.  The normally Twitter-happy Chávez was initially silent when the revolt against ally Muammar Qaddafi erupted last month. But on Feb. 25, he broke his silence with a tweet: "Viva Libya and its independence! Qaddafi is facing a civil war!!"
> 
> The two leaders have since spoken by telephone, with Colonel Qaddafi reportedly agreeing to consider allowing Chávez to mediate Libya's civil conflict. The United States, it appears, will not be invited to the negotiating table, around which Chávez envisions South American and select European leaders.  How serious is this mediation proposal? Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa today said it is "under consideration."
> 
> *Qaddafi and Chávez: Good buddies*



See also:

*Qaddafi welcomes Chávez's offer to mediate in Libya*
_March 4, 2011 - But Libya's leader Muammar Qaddafi appears to be alone in supporting Hugo Chávez's offer of international mediation, which even Qaddafi's eldest son has rejected._


> As international concern grows about Libya descending into civil war, Libya's Muammar Qaddafi has accepted a mediation offer from longtime ally Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. But key international players, as well as Libya's opposition and even Mr. Qaddafi's son, have rejected it.  You don't need an international commission to tell Colonel Gaddafi what he needs to do for the good of his country and the good of his people, US State Department P.J. Crowley was quoted as saying by Al Jazeera. Mr. Crowleys sentiments were echoed by Frances foreign minister who said any mediation that would allow Qaddafi to succeed himself were obviously not welcome.
> 
> Saif al-Islam Qaddafi, the embattled leaders eldest son, also dismissed Mr. Chávezs proposal as unnecessary, reports The Latin American Herald Tribune.  The Venezuelans have affirmed that they are our friends and respect and like us, but ... Libya is in the Middle East and in North Africa and Venezuela is in Latin America," said Qaddafis son, who then added a word of gratitude. "Thank you, we are grateful to them. They are our friends. Its a nice gesture but we can resolve our own problems. There is no need for foreign intervention.  Chávez seems undeterred, however, by the apparent widespread rejection of his proposal, reports CNN.
> 
> Chávez and Qaddafi have a longstanding friendship. Chávez has visited Libya six times during his 12 years as president, reports Libyas Tripoli Post. During Qaddafis visit to Venezuela in 2009, the two leaders exchanged gifts, with Qaddafi giving Chávez a Bedouin tent and Chávez gifting his counterpart a replica of Simón Bolívars sword.  Chávez seems to see the two leaders as mutual victims and accused the international community of condemning both of them in the past for harboring terrorists without proof and the US of only getting involved because it wants Libya's oil.
> 
> MORE


----------



## waltky

Granny says, "Yea go ahead - liquidate with extreme prejudice...

*Covert Action to Target Gadhafi?*
_ March 04, 2011 - Top U.S. officials from President Barack Obama on down have made it clear Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi should go.  The United States is considering a range of options to pressure Mr. Gadhafi. One of them might be a covert program to topple him._


> In a time of international crisis, a U.S. president has an array of tools he can choose from to affect events, ranging from diplomacy to full-blown military action.  But lying somewhere in between is covert action.  Simply defined, covert action is any U.S. government effort to change the economic, military, or political situation overseas in a hidden way.  Intelligence professionals consider it to be different than clandestine operations, which cover more traditional espionage and counterintelligence activities.  Covert action can encompass many things, including propaganda, covert funding, electoral manipulation, arming and training insurgents, and even encouraging a coup.
> 
> Is covert action under way in Libya?  Those who know are not telling. The key to a successful covert action, after all, is secrecy.  But the situation in Libya is chaotic.  Jennifer Sims, visiting professor of security studies at Georgetown University and a specialist in intelligence affairs, says covert action should not be undertaken without a clear picture of what the outcome will - or at least should - be.  "I think of it as a gymnastics move," said Sims. "If you cant visualize it from the moment you start running down the mat until you stick the landing, you better not try to start running down the mat.  And I dont know that things are at all clear on the ground in Libya at the moment. I dont know what our [intelligence] collection assets are, but it could be a very, very difficult thing to pull off. And we dont know what the end game would be at this moment, or wed have to find out."
> 
> Covert actions traditionally have been carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency.  Charles Allen, who served more than 40 years at the CIA, says proposals for covert action originate not from spies but policymakers.  The CIA, he says, is merely an instrument.  The Central Intelligence Agency rarely suggests this," said Allen. "This usually comes, and almost invariably comes, from the president and his senior policymakers - secretary of state, secretary of defense, or the National Security Council.  Under some presidents, theyve been very limited.  Under others, where the threat was viewed as higher, covert actions are more often used.  As Sims points out, covert actions are very tempting tools for a president to use.
> 
> "The upside is that you can get outcomes that are ripe for getting with a minimum use, ideally, of force," she said. "And by keeping the U.S. hand hidden, you can hopefully get it without getting blowback on the United States in terms of public outcry over the outcomes that might make others unhappy. The downside, of course, is exactly what the upside is - that youre hiding the U.S. hand, and if it gets exposed, you can get blowback worse than you were ever going to get on the overt side."  Some operations, such as the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961, were disasters.  Others, such as backing the mujahedin in Afghanistan in the 1980s against Soviet occupation, have been more widely viewed as successful.  In 1975, U.S. plots to assassinate foreign leaders came to light. The glare of public spotlight led to strict rules on covert action, including requiring presidential approval of covert actions and notification of eight key members of the Congress responsible for intelligence oversight.
> 
> Source


----------



## dilloduck

It's interesting alright. I'd like to be a bug on the wall in various countries as they try to set a policy on this one. Back in the day one could pretty much bet that the Communists would support one side and America the other. It's not so easy to see the alliances anymore.
As of now it seems the world is content to allow them to kill each other off as it as done in other parts of Africa.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Short of us invading the Country or arming the rebels, what exactly can we do? And is it our affair to begin with?


----------



## dilloduck

RetiredGySgt said:


> Short of us invading the Country or arming the rebels, what exactly can we do? And is it our affair to begin with?



in the past we would send in advisors and weapons and Russia or China would arm the other side. 
Obviously the UN in all it's wisdom has no clue how to stop a massacre.


----------



## Article 15

British Soldiers Reportedly Captured by Libyan Rebels During Secret Mission - FoxNews.com

Libyan rebels capture British soldiers - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com


----------



## BrianH

I just saw this report also.  Supposedly they were trying to get a British diplomat to meet with anti-Quadaffi(spelling?) supporters....looks like they got their wish.


----------



## Jos

> HMS York was docked in Benghazi harbour on Wednesday.
> So if Britain wanted to send anybody in to the court house where the proto-government is based here, they could have jumped in a taxi, or even walked there, from the harbour.


BBC News - Libya unrest: SAS members &#039;arrested near Benghazi&#039;


----------



## Midnight Marauder

Stay out of it.... Stay out of it.... Stay OUT of it.

What part of that does _our_ government not hear yet?


----------



## California Girl

Midnight Marauder said:


> Stay out of it.... Stay out of it.... Stay OUT of it.
> 
> What part of that does _our_ government not hear yet?



I'm reasonably confident that Britain is not part of 'our' government.


----------



## Jos

The problem we have here is the Press are speculating and using words such as Captured, secret undercover mission and SAS to sex the story up and grap the imagination of the reader.
When in truth it is more down to earth. The press do not know the unit involved other than British nationals on a diplomatic mission to establish links. Who have been held while identities are confirmed.There are a number of other possibilities as to who exactly they might be, the Foreign Office employs security guards from PMC's as escorts and the Royal Military Police also have a role in Close Protection of diplomats for which they are trained by the SAS. As a rule I think only the higher levels of diplomat might be granted an SAS CP team


----------



## xsited1

Article 15 said:


> British Soldiers Reportedly Captured by Libyan Rebels During Secret Mission - FoxNews.com
> 
> Libyan rebels capture British soldiers - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com



I can see why they'd be there after the Lockerbie bombing and everything.  I'd like to hear a perspective from a British citizen.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

California Girl said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stay out of it.... Stay out of it.... Stay OUT of it.
> 
> What part of that does _our_ government not hear yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm reasonably confident that Britain is not part of 'our' government.
Click to expand...

That's why I had "our" in italics.

Several folks pushing the administration into getting involved, the right answer is NO. Stay OUT of it.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Midnight Marauder said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stay out of it.... Stay out of it.... Stay OUT of it.
> 
> What part of that does _our_ government not hear yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm reasonably confident that Britain is not part of 'our' government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's why I had "our" in italics.
> 
> Several folks pushing the administration into getting involved, the right answer is NO. Stay OUT of it.
Click to expand...


Staying out of it would also mean keeping our traps shut about what should or should not happen. Obama has no business telling Gahdafi to go when he has no intention of doing anything to make him leave.


----------



## Midnight Marauder

RetiredGySgt said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm reasonably confident that Britain is not part of 'our' government.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I had "our" in italics.
> 
> Several folks pushing the administration into getting involved, the right answer is NO. Stay OUT of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Staying out of it would also mean keeping our traps shut about what should or should not happen. Obama has no business telling Gahdafi to go when he has no intention of doing anything to make him leave.
Click to expand...

I have no quarrel with what you're saying.


----------



## Blagger

xsited1 said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> British Soldiers Reportedly Captured by Libyan Rebels During Secret Mission - FoxNews.com
> 
> Libyan rebels capture British soldiers - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see why they'd be there after the Lockerbie bombing and everything.  *I'd like to hear a perspective from a British citizen.*
Click to expand...


British involvement in Libya is hazy to say the least. Apart from oil, we don't (to the best of my knowledge) have any tangible interests in Libya.

But there's more.

During the mid '90s, it was revealed by a rogue MI5 agent, David Shayler, that Britain's MI6 had plotted with an opposition group (Libyan Islamic Fighting Group) to assassinate Gaddafi. They planted a bomb under his motorcade, but the bomb was planted under the wrong car. Gaddafi survived but several civilians died in the blast. 

I can't be sure, but the UK may be attempting to influence the uprising in Libya by supporting rebel forces with special forces [SAS] personnel.

I hope that helps, xsited1.


Below you'll find more information on MI6's involvement in Libya:

MI6's failed assassination attempt on Gaddafi - BBC

Further testimony - BBC


----------



## waltky

Thought they were going in to rescue British oil workers and their families...

*Britain's SAS in Libya: What happened there?*
_The confusion surrounding the detention and then release of several British nationals  including members of the Special Air Service  in Libya has generated as much interest as the incident itself. However, little information is available on why a group of British men arrived unauthorized and unannounced in Libya. Below is an overview of what can be confirmed about the incident._


> What do we know about the incident?
> 
> SAS soldiers and members of the British intelligence unit MI6 were escorting British diplomats into eastern Libya to build connections with Libyan opposition leaders, The Guardian reports. They were dropped by helicopter outside Benghazi and were reportedly detained Thursday by rebel commanders who suspected them of being mercenaries because of the reconnaissance and military equipment they carried.
> 
> British Foreign Secretary William Hague, who approved the mission, gave a brief explanation to members of Parliament Monday afternoon local time:
> 
> Last week I authorised the dispatch of a small diplomatic team to Eastern Libya in uncertain circumstances which we judged required their protection to build on these initial contacts [with the Libyan opposition] and to assess the scope for closer diplomatic dialogue. I pay tribute to that team. They were withdrawn yesterday after a serious misunderstanding about their role leading to temporary detention. This situation was resolved and they were able to meet [an opposition leader]. However it was clearly better for this team to be withdrawn.
> 
> Rebel forces have asked why the SAS/MI6 group came in so secretively if they were an official group tasked with guiding diplomats to the opposition. If this is an official delegation, why did they come with a helicopter? Why didnt they [inform the revolutionary council] ? asked Mustafa Gheriani, a spokesman for the opposition, according to the Guardian.
> 
> MORE


----------



## Momanohedhunter

RetiredGySgt said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm reasonably confident that Britain is not part of 'our' government.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I had "our" in italics.
> 
> Several folks pushing the administration into getting involved, the right answer is NO. Stay OUT of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Staying out of it would also mean keeping our traps shut about what should or should not happen. Obama has no business telling Gahdafi to go when he has no intention of doing anything to make him leave.
Click to expand...


True, I dont think he, or the rest of the country has the stomach for more action in the Middle East/Africa. Even air strikes could be hairy if a pilot were shot down, or civilians were killed.


----------



## Momanohedhunter

Swagger said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> British Soldiers Reportedly Captured by Libyan Rebels During Secret Mission - FoxNews.com
> 
> Libyan rebels capture British soldiers - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see why they'd be there after the Lockerbie bombing and everything.  *I'd like to hear a perspective from a British citizen.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> British involvement in Libya is hazy to say the least. Apart from oil, we don't (to the best of my knowledge) have any tangible interests in Libya.
> 
> But there's more.
> 
> During the mid '90s, it was revealed by a rogue MI5 agent, David Shayler, that Britain's MI6 had plotted with an opposition group (Libyan Islamic Fighting Group) to assassinate Gaddafi. They planted a bomb under his motorcade, but the bomb was planted under the wrong car. Gaddafi survived but several civilians died in the blast.
> 
> I can't be sure, but the UK may be attempting to influence the uprising in Libya by supporting rebel forces with special forces [SAS] personnel.
> 
> I hope that helps, xsited1.
> 
> 
> Below you'll find more information on MI6's involvement in Libya:
> 
> MI6's failed assassination attempt on Gaddafi - BBC
> 
> Further testimony - BBC
Click to expand...


Do you think they would help them out by giving the rebels the means to shoot down air craft ?


----------



## Rat in the Hat

BrianH said:


> I just saw this report also.  Supposedly they were trying to get a British diplomat to meet with anti-Quadaffi(spelling?) supporters....looks like they got their wish.



Don't worry about the spelling.

At last count, there are 4,275 acceptable ways to spell that goofball's name.

By the end of next month, it will be over 10,000.


----------



## High_Gravity

> TRIPOLI, Libya &#8212; As wealthier nations send boats and planes to rescue their citizens from the violence in Libya, a new refugee crisis is taking shape on the outskirts of Tripoli, where thousands of migrant workers from sub-Saharan Africa have been trapped with scant food and water, no international aid and little hope of escape.
> 
> A man prayed among his fellow refugees from Ghana at a camp in Tunisia near the Libya border.
> The migrants &#8212; many of them illegal immigrants from Ghana and Nigeria who have long constituted an impoverished underclass in Libya &#8212; live amid piles of garbage, sleep in makeshift tents of blankets strung from fences and trees, and breathe fumes from a trench of excrement dividing their camp from the parking lot of Tripoli&#8217;s airport.
> 
> For dinner on Monday night two men killed a scrawny, half-plucked chicken by dunking it in water boiled on a garbage fire, then hacked it apart with a dull knife and cooked it over an open fire. Some residents of the camp are as young as Essem Ighalo, 9 days old, who arrived on his second day of life and has yet to see a doctor. Many refugees said they had seen deaths from hunger and disease every night.
> 
> The airport refugees, along with tens of thousands of other African migrants lucky enough to make it across the border to Tunisia, are the most desperate contingent of a vast exodus that has already sent almost 200,000 foreigners fleeing the country since the outbreak of the popular revolt against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi nearly three weeks ago.
> 
> Dark-skinned Africans say the Libyan war has caught them in a vise. The heavily armed police and militia forces loyal to Colonel Qaddafi who guard checkpoints along the roads around the capital rob them of their money, possessions and cellphone chips, the migrants say. And the Libyans who oppose Colonel Qaddafi lash out at the African migrants because they look like the dark-skinned mercenaries many here say the Libyan leader has recruited to crush the uprising.
> 
> &#8220;Qaddafi has brought African soldiers to kill some of them, so if they see black people they beat them,&#8221; said Samson Adda, 31, who said residents of Zawiyah, a rebellious city, had beaten him so badly that he could no longer walk.
> 
> Sub-Saharan Africans make up a vast majority of the estimated 1.5 million illegal immigrants among Libya&#8217;s population of 6.5 million, according to the International Organization for Migration. Many were desperately poor people made even more so by investments of up to $1,000 each to pay smugglers to bring them across Libya&#8217;s southern border for a chance at better work in its oil economy.
> 
> Their flight has emptied the streets of thousands of day laborers who played a crucial, if largely unheralded, role in sustaining Libya&#8217;s economy. Their absence has played a role in halting construction projects that had been rising across the skyline.
> 
> They are trapped in part because most lack passports or other documents necessary to board a plane or cross the border. Few can afford a plane ticket. They say they are afraid to leave the airport or try their luck on the roads to the border for fear of assaults by Libyan citizens or at militia checkpoints.
> 
> They complain bitterly of betrayal by their home governments, which have failed to help evacuate them even as Egyptian, Bangladeshi and Chinese migrant workers who crowded the airport a week ago have found a way out.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/world/middleeast/08refugees.html?ref=world


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Air Strikes Hit Rebels At Oil Port 








> BREAKING NEWS:
> 
> Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi have scored a significant victory, recapturing the closest city to the capital to have fallen in rebel hands. On another front near the opposition-held east, loyalists trying to stop anti-government fighters from advancing toward the capital pounded the rebels with airstrikes and rockets.
> 
> 
> RAS LANOUF, Libya -- Libyan warplanes launched at least five new airstrikes Tuesday near rebel positions in the oil port of Ras Lanouf, keeping up a counteroffensive to prevent the opposition from advancing toward leader Moammar Gadhafi's stronghold in the capital Tripoli.
> 
> There was no immediate word on casualties, and an Associated Press reporter who witnessed the strikes said they did not appear to hit any fighters. The latest airstrike hit a two-story house in a residential area, causing some damage but not hurting anyone.
> 
> Representatives of the opposition, which controls the eastern half of Libya, said they have received an offer to negotiate the terms of Gadhafi's departure. However, they could not confirm whether the envoy who made the offer was authorized by the regime to do so and said in any case, they would not negotiate with the government.
> 
> Gadhafi's regime has been using its air power advantage more each day to check a rebel advance west toward Tripoli on the main highway leading out of the opposition-controlled eastern half of the country. The increasing use of air power underlines the vulnerability of the rebel forces as they attempt to march in open terrain along the Mediterranean coast and could prompt world powers to impose a no-fly zone over Libya to deny Gadhafi that edge.




Libya Air Strikes Hit Rebels At Oil Port


----------



## High_Gravity

Why black Africans are paying the price for the real or perceived use of mercenaries in Libya 








> A cocked pistol points near the head of the black African teenager. A Libyan rebel barks questions in Arabic, waving an accusing finger as he suggests his captive is a paid pro-government mercenary. The youths face freezes with muted terror.
> 
> Its an extraordinarily powerful image, one printed prominently in dozens of newspapers last week. And what makes it all the more potent are the details that the photographer could not capture in his frame.
> 
> Held and interrogated, do these men look like Gadhafi's mercenaries?  Fact check
> Libya's military: how strong are Gadhafi's forces? Honestly, he didnt look to me as a mercenary at all, Reuters Goran Tomasevic told The Globe and Mail from Ras Lanuf, the town near where he shot the photo.
> 
> The war photographer spoke of how he stumbled on the scene at a rebel checkpoint. There, angry onlookers were egging the interrogators on, claiming the youth  likely from Niger  had already confessed to being a foreign fighter. Yet he denied it, again and again.
> 
> Such scenes are playing out across Libya these days, as the uprising fuels friend-or-foe fears that resuscitate long-dormant tensions between mostly Arab citizens and foreign workers. The black African, or sub-Saharan African population is, without any question, suffering repercussions and revenge attacks, for the real or perceived use of mercenaries by Gadhafi forces, said Fred Abrahams of Human Rights Watch in New York.



Why black Africans are paying the price for the real or perceived use of mercenaries in Libya - The Globe and Mail


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Official Flies To Egypt With Gaddafi Message 








> CAIRO -- A high-ranking member of the Libyan military landed in Cairo on Wednesday and embassy staff told Egyptian officials that he was carrying a message from embattled leader Moammar Gaddafi.
> 
> A Egyptian army official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity that Maj. Gen Abdul-Rahman bin Ali al-Saiid al-Zawi, the head of Libya's logistics and supply authority, was asking to meet Egypt's military rulers.
> 
> No further details were immediately available.
> 
> After weeks of dramatic setbacks, Gaddafi appears to have at least temporarily seized the momentum in his fight against rebels trying to move on the capital, Tripoli, from territory they hold in eastern Libya.
> 
> The two sides traded barrages of artillery shells and rockets about 12 miles (20 kilometers)west of the oil port of Ras Lanouf, an indication that regime forces were much closer to the city than previously known.
> 
> Gaddafi's successes have left Western powers struggling to come up with a plan to support the rebels without becomg ensnared in the complex and fast-moving conflict.
> 
> President Barack Obama's most senior advisers were meeting Wednesday to outline what steps are realistic and possible to pressure Gaddafi to halt the violence and give up power.
> 
> They planned to examine the ramifications of a no-fly zone over Libya and other potential military options, although the final decision will rest with Obama, U.S. officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss internal administration deliberations.
> 
> Britain and France are pushing for the U.N. to create a no-fly zone over Libya, and while the U.S. may be persuaded to sign on, such a move is unlikely to win the backing of veto-wielding Security Council members Russia and China, which traditionally object to such steps as infringements on national sovereignty.



Libya Official Flies To Egypt With Gaddafi Message


----------



## Confident

* In Libya, the USA is hesitant about imposing a no-fly zone, what does it mean?*

*The Arab foreign ministers have now taken another important and responsible decision regarding Libya. After suspending Libya's membership to the Arab League, the Arabs decided to call on the international Security Council to shoulder its responsibilities by immediately imposing a no-fly zone on Libyan military planes, and to establish a safe zone in areas that are facing bombardment, in order to protect the Libyan people from the regime. *

*Therefore, today the ball is in the court of the international community, which must carry out its duty to protect the people of Libya from the tyranny that it is being subjected to at the hands of the regime.*

*The West and the US of course were hesitant about imposing a no-fly zone for several reasons; one of which was that there was no unified Arab position on the issue. Now the GCC, and the Arab League, have invalidated that excuse. The West has all the capacities and mechanisms to apply the no-fly zone, in order to save the Libyan people from the tyranny that is being perpetrated by Gaddafi. *

*Perhaps some Western states, including the US, believe that the Gaddafi regime might win on the ground, and this is a natural conviction, because the regime is not hesitating to use all of its military power, let alone mercenaries. But if the Libyan regime does prevail by crushing its own people, how can there ever be cooperation with it? What about human rights? What about international laws and conventions?*

*Germany and France were quick to welcome the Arab League resolution, even though the Germans were asking: how can the Arab League call for a no-fly zone whilst rejecting foreign intervention? The answer is simple; the decision to impose a no-fly zone will come from the Security Council, and therefore it has international legitimacy, and is not an individual act by one state in particular. Consequently, there must be a unified European and American position, and the imposition of the no-fly zone must be carried out quickly through the Security Council. Of course, this will be a tough diplomatic battle, but the foundations are in place, and the justifications are genuine.*

*The priority now, and the most important today is to protect the Libyan people. We must also realize that the Libyan regime has lost its legitimacy; therefore any initiative should not only be clear, but should also not aim to restore credibility to Gaddafi's regime. *

*What happened in Libya is of course different to what happened in Egypt or Tunisia, as the military institutions in those countries demonstrated a sense of responsibility. Perhaps what is happening today in Sanaa, or what is about to happen, is most similar to what is happening in Libya. There is now a genuine need for caution, so that Yemen is not dragged into a civil war. But what is urgently required today is that the Libyan people are given protection, as soon as possible.*​


----------



## Mini 14

We should stay out of it.

Let the Libyans kill each other. We have our own problems to deal with.


----------



## Two Thumbs

I never thought I'd be on the same side as the Russians.

Let the Libyans work it out amoung themselves.

If the world gave a damn about being humane we (the world) would have destroyed every country in the ME that produces oil.

As it is, we will deal with who ever wins.


----------



## Confident

Mini 14 said:


> We should stay out of it.
> 
> Let the Libyans kill each other. We have our own problems to deal with.


*what about Iraq? 
why did you sacrifice thousands of Americans in Iraq? see this:Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM
What is the purpose of the invasion of Iraq?
Why did you Interfere in Tunisia and Egypt and you stood against Hosni and Ben Ali?


*


----------



## Mini 14

Confident said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We should stay out of it.
> 
> Let the Libyans kill each other. We have our own problems to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> *what about Iraq?
> why did you sacrifice thousands of Americans in Iraq? see this:Cost of War to the United States | COSTOFWAR.COM
> What is the purpose of the invasion of Iraq?
> Why did you Interfere in Tunisia and Egypt and you stood against Hosni and Ben Ali?
> 
> 
> *
Click to expand...


We could afford to then.

Now, we can't.

Ask China for help. They're fine.


----------



## Confident

Mini 14 said:


> Let the Libyans kill each other..





Two Thumbs said:


> As it is, we will deal with who ever wins.



*
ok!! is this the ethics, values, and principles of America?
whyd did you stand against Hosni and Bin Ali?
or Muammar Gaddafi is a sincere friend of America and his validity is not over?*


----------



## Two Thumbs

Confident said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let the Libyans kill each other..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> As it is, we will deal with who ever wins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *
> ok!! is this the ethics, values, and principles of America?
> whyd did you stand against Hosni and Bin Ali? Who?
> or Muammar Gaddafi is a sincere friend of America and his validity is not over? Gaddafi is a wanted criminal in America.*
Click to expand...


As far as our principles go;

If we help;  Americans die and you call us the Great Satan.
If we don't help; No Americans die and you call us the Great Satan.

So you will excuse me if I don't want my sons dead for a bunch of filth that call me the great satan and will kill me, my wife and my kids for not being muslims.

Learn to show respect BEFORE you need our help.


----------



## Cmdr Sheppard

Finally we are doing something about that one crazy terrorist leader guy.



> Libya's defense ministry warned Thursday that any military action against the African nation resulting from a possible U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing airstrikes and other measures will be met with retaliatory strikes on air and sea traffic in the Mediterranean region.
> 
> Reuters reported that a statement by the regime of Muammar al-Qaddafi broadcast on Libyan television warned that "the Mediterranean basin will face danger not just in the short-term, but also in the long term."
> 
> Read more: Libya Threatens Retaliation as U.S. Seeks UN Resolution Authorizing Strikes - FoxNews.com


----------



## waltky

Obama not draggin' his feet against Khaddafi...

*Clinton Denies Obama Administration Is Dragging Its Feet While Gaddafi Crushes Rebels*
_Thursday, March 17, 2011  As the son of Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi crowed Wednesday that government forces would defeat rebels in their Benghazi base within 48 hours, the head of a U.S.-based group promoting democracy in Libya voiced frustration and regret at the international response to the crisis._


> He singled out for criticism the Obama administration, which he said had given not a whimper of support to the provisional council representing the anti-Gaddafi rebellion.  Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in a series of interviews in Cairo Wednesday spoke of a new urgency and expressed the hope that the U.N. Security Council could vote as early as Thursday on a draft resolution authorizing actions including a no-fly zone.
> 
> There is a sense of urgency because Colonel Gaddafi and his forces are moving east, and so we want to see the Security Council act as soon as possible, she told Egypts Nile TV.  Clinton, who met with a Libyan National Council rebel leader in Paris on Monday, characterized last weekends call by the Arab League for the Security Council to act as a game-changer.
> 
> As we consult in New York on a U.N. resolution, theres a much greater openness than there was a week ago, she told CBS television.
> 
> MORE


----------



## Mr. H.

French/British will do the bombing. 

My guess is, the G meister is cramming civilians into command/control and air defense installations.


----------



## tigerbob

No fly zone was approved yesterday, British cabinet met this morning to review legal advice, and it now appears that there will be a vote in Parliament on Monday to approve the commitment of UK forces.  As Labour have indicated they will support it, this seems like a formality.

So, here's my question.

If we have known (as we have) that a no fly zone was likely / possible, I assume that military planning has been ongoing for several days.  Why do the Libyan people (who have been getting the crap kicked out of them for weeks now) now have to wait a further 3 days before even a vote is taken?

Why is the vote not being taken today, passed, and the green light given to the military to commence operations as soon as they and their military partners are ready to do so?  Given the language used about humanitarian responsibilities, the lack of urgency is hard to understand.


----------



## Article 15

Holy shit!

WB, tigerbob!

I aint seen you in a minute!


----------



## tigerbob

8.40 EST

Just watching the Libyan Foreign Minister's news conference.  In view of the UN Resolution, the Gaddafi regime has just announced a cessation of military action.

Holy shit.


----------



## tigerbob

Article 15 said:


> Holy shit!
> 
> WB, tigerbob!
> 
> I aint seen you in a minute!



Hello.  Yes, this subject interested me so I thought I'd pop back and see what others were thinking.

Your Red Sox are looking like the team to beat this year.


----------



## zzzz

I believe the politicos are hoping the insurrection will fizzle away before the time comes to implement the no fly zone. It appears to be a public stance thing that deals with the image of doing something but actually doing nothing.


----------



## tigerbob

zzzz said:


> I believe the politicos are hoping the insurrection will fizzle away before the time comes to implement the no fly zone. It appears to be a public stance thing that deals with the image of doing something but actually doing nothing.



Well, in light of the news conference in Libya in the last 15 minutes, maybe it won't be necessary after all.  We'll see.  Gaddafi has lied before, but anything that saves lives is probably a good thing.


----------



## tigerbob

No response from any of the leaders of other countries yet, but it will be interesting to see whether this is Gaddafi recognizing of the fact that he's gonna get pounded and is trying to salvage a bargaining position, or whether it's just a cynical attempt to undermine the U.N Resolution and divide political opinion.  

Actually, maybe both are the same.


----------



## dilloduck

Interesting chess match.


----------



## xsited1

tigerbob said:


> 8.40 EST
> 
> Just watching the Libyan Foreign Minister's news conference.  In view of the UN Resolution, the Gaddafi regime has just announced a cessation of military action.
> 
> Holy shit.



Wow!  This is huge!  I think I'll celebrate by going to Latin America for a few days.


----------



## dilloduck

and people claim the UN is impotant. One little resolution solved everything !


----------



## Valerie

Great news!



> Libya called for a cease-fire and a halt to military action on Friday, hours after the U.N. Security Council authorized the use of force to protect besieged civilians in Libya.
> 
> Libyan Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, speaking to reporters Friday in Tripoli, said that in light of its membership in the United Nations, the country is "obliged to accept the Security Council resolution that permits the use of force to protect the civilian population."
> 
> "Therefore, Libya has decided an immediate ceasefire and the stoppage of all military operations," Koussa said.
> 
> Earlier Friday, talk of swift military action against Moammar Gadhafi's regime emerged in Europe.
> 
> Libya calls for cease-fire amid foreign military moves - CNN.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Wow I didn't see that coming.


----------



## Mad Scientist

dilloduck said:


> and people claim the UN is impotant. One little resolution solved everything !


The problem aint solved. As you already said "interesting chess match". Neither side has Check Mate *yet*.


----------



## boedicca

Kaddafi is crazy like a fox.

He has the rebellion nearly crushed.  By playing nice with the U.N., he has time for the ground game to finish the job, such as:

_Twenty-five people, including several children, were killed during heavy bombardments by forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi on the western city of Misrata on Friday, a doctor in the city told Reuters.

The doctor and another resident said government tanks were still shelling the city, despite an earlier claim by rebels that the attack had been defeated.

"Gaddafi's forces are bombing the city with artillery shells and tanks. We now have 25 people dead at the hospital, including several little girls," the doctor said by satellite phone._

Government attack on Libya's Misrata kills 25: doctor - Yahoo! News


----------



## Mad Scientist

boedicca said:


> *Kaddafi is crazy like a fox.
> 
> He has the rebellion nearly crushed.  By playing nice with the U.N., he has time for the ground game to finish the job*.


This.


----------



## waltky

A likely ruse...

*Libya Cease-Fire Aims to Outflank No-Fly Zone*
_Friday, March 18, 2011 - Trying to outmaneuver Western military intervention, Moammar Gadhafi's government declared a cease-fire on Friday against the rebel uprising faltering against his artillery, tanks and warplanes. The opposition said shells rained down well after the announcement and accused the Libyan leader of lying._


> Wary of the cease-fire, Britain and France took the lead in plans to enforce a no-fly zone, sending British warplanes to the Mediterranean and announcing a crisis summit in Paris with the U.N. and Arab allies. In Washington, President Barack Obama ruled out the use of American ground troops but warned that the U.S., which has an array of naval and air forces in the region, would join in military action.
> 
> There should be no doubt about the Libyan leader's intentions "because he has made them clear," Obama said. "Just yesterday, speaking of the city of Benghazi, a city of roughly 700,000, he threatened `we will have no mercy and no pity.' No mercy on his own citizens."  In a joint statement to Gadhafi late Friday, the United States, Britain and France - backed by unspecified Arab countries - said a cease-fire must begin "immediately" in Libya, the French presidential palace said.
> 
> The statement called on Gadhafi to end his troops' advance toward Benghazi and pull them out of the cities of Misrata, Ajdabiya and Zawiya, and called for the restoration of water, electricity and gas services in all areas. It said Libyans must be able to receive humanitarian aid or the "international community will make him suffer the consequences" with military action.
> 
> MORE



See also:

*Libyan Rebels Dismiss Regime&#8217;s Cease-Fire Declaration*
_Friday, March 18, 2011 - A Libyan rebel spokesman has dismissed the cease-fire announcement, claiming Moammar Gadhafi's forces are still attacking key cities in the east and the west._


> Facing Western military action, Libya's Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa announced Friday that the government will stop all military operations.
> 
> But Mustafa Gheriani, a spokesman for the national opposition council based in Benghazi, says "no cease-fire."  Gheriani says regime forces are shelling the eastern city of Ajdabiya and Misrata, the last rebel-held city in the western half of the country.
> 
> Western powers are racing to prevent more attacks after the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution setting the stage for airstrikes, a no-fly zone and other military measures short of a ground invasion.
> 
> Source



Related:

*Libyan Forces Attack Last Rebel-Held Western City; Too Late for No-Fly Zone?*
_Friday, March 18, 2011 - Moammar Gadhafi's forces are bombarding the last rebel-held western city as the international community discusses how to enforce a no-fly zone and protect the Libyan people._


> A doctor says at least six people were killed Friday when tanks moved into Misrata and opened fire. He says a hospital and a mosque were shelled.
> 
> The doctor, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he feared reprisals, says the tanks then pulled back to the outskirts of the city.
> 
> Misrata, Libya's third-largest city, 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, has been sealed off by Gadhafi troops in a blockade that has cut off most water and food supplies for days.
> 
> Rebels fighting to oust the longtime Libyan leader are on the defensive in their eastern stronghold.
> 
> MORE


----------



## JimH52

I think you call that "Check".  Now we need to take his Queen while he isn't looking.  This guy is as sly as a fox.


----------



## random3434

tigerbob said:


> 8.40 EST
> 
> Just watching the Libyan Foreign Minister's news conference.  In view of the UN Resolution, the Gaddafi regime has just announced a cessation of military action.
> 
> Holy shit.



Thanks for the info Tiger Bob!


Glad to see you back, we have missed you!


----------



## eots

Cmdr Sheppard said:


> Finally we are doing something about that one crazy terrorist leader guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya's defense ministry warned Thursday that any military action against the African nation resulting from a possible U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing airstrikes and other measures will be met with retaliatory strikes on air and sea traffic in the Mediterranean region.
> 
> Reuters reported that a statement by the regime of Muammar al-Qaddafi broadcast on Libyan television warned that "the Mediterranean basin will face danger not just in the short-term, but also in the long term."
> 
> Read more: Libya Threatens Retaliation as U.S. Seeks UN Resolution Authorizing Strikes - FoxNews.com
Click to expand...


by killing  woman and children .. destroying the  infrastructure


----------



## dilloduck

eots said:


> Cmdr Sheppard said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally we are doing something about that one crazy terrorist leader guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya's defense ministry warned Thursday that any military action against the African nation resulting from a possible U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing airstrikes and other measures will be met with retaliatory strikes on air and sea traffic in the Mediterranean region.
> 
> Reuters reported that a statement by the regime of Muammar al-Qaddafi broadcast on Libyan television warned that "the Mediterranean basin will face danger not just in the short-term, but also in the long term."
> 
> Read more: Libya Threatens Retaliation as U.S. Seeks UN Resolution Authorizing Strikes - FoxNews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> by killing  woman and children .. destroying the  infrastructure
Click to expand...


France says it's OK.


----------



## The Infidel

Lybia would make one Hell of an amusement/safari park.


----------



## The Infidel

dilloduck said:


> France says it's OK.



Those pussies ran from Japan 

So who gives a poop what they say?


----------



## tigerbob

Echo Zulu said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8.40 EST
> 
> Just watching the Libyan Foreign Minister's news conference.  In view of the UN Resolution, the Gaddafi regime has just announced a cessation of military action.
> 
> Holy shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info Tiger Bob!
> 
> 
> Glad to see you back, we have missed you!
Click to expand...


Well, I drop in every now and again to see what folks are saying when I find a subject that interests me.

Hope all's well with you.  Boot OK?


----------



## PlagueCat

Dictators are prone to kneel down when they see a bigstick comin their way.


----------



## High_Gravity

Thank god the crew members are safe, one of them was recovered by the rebels thank god he didn't end up with Ghaddafis thugs, now why are we in Libya again? we are going to get Americans fucking killed in this war!

Official: F-15 jet crew safe and in American hands



> BERLIN  A U.S. official says both the crew of an F-15 fighter jet that crashed in Libya are safe and back in American hands.
> 
> The official, speaking Tuesday on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record, said a Marine Corps Osprey search and rescue aircraft retrieved the pilot. He says the second crew member, a weapon's officer, was recovered by Libyan rebel forces and is now in U.S hands.
> 
> The crash occurred Monday night at 2130 GMT (5:30 p.m. EDT) after what the military says was an equipment malfunction. Its exact location was not given.
> 
> _____
> 
> Pauline Jelinek contributed to this report from Washington
> 
> THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
> 
> LONDON (AP)  A U.S. military jet crashed in Libya after an equipment malfunction but its two crewmembers ejected and are safe, the U.S. military said Tuesday.
> 
> Vince Crawley, a spokesman for the Africa Command, says both sustained minor injuries and were separated because they used parachutes to eject from the F-15E Strike Eagle jet at high altitudes, ending up in different areas.
> 
> The crash occurred Monday night at 2130 GMT (5:30 p.m. EST). Its exact location was not given.
> 
> One crew member has been recovered and an operation is currently under way to recover the other one  "but we know he's safe," said Ken Fidler, another spokesman for Africa Command.
> 
> The aircraft, based out of Royal Air Force Lakenheath, England, was flying out of Italy's Aviano Air Base in support of Operation Odyssey Dawn at the time of the incident. The cause of the crash is being investigated.
> 
> The Air Force has said only that B-2, F-15 and F-16 fighters are participating in operations over Libya. The U.S.'s involvement in Libya is being run by Africa Command, which is based in Stuttgart, Germany.



Official: F-15 jet crew safe and in American hands - Yahoo! News


----------



## Truthmatters

Its not a war, we are there to keep gadafi from murdering his people with the peoples military while they oust a dictator.

If we dont then we will have several mid east dictators killing their people with the peoples military.

Its called good sound and thoughtful foreign policy by the entire world.


----------



## Sallow

Glad they are safe.


----------



## High_Gravity

Truthmatters said:


> Its not a war, we are there to keep gadafi from murdering his people with the peoples military while they oust a dictator.
> 
> If we dont then we will have several mid east dictators killing their people with the peoples military.
> 
> Its called good sound and thoughtful foreign policy by the entire world.



We are sending fucking cruise missiles and US Fighter Jets to that country, one of them crashed in fucking Libya today, what would have happened if those pilots ended up with Ghaddafis thugs? it would have been a media circus, that is a war no matter how you spin it. There doesn't have to be ground troops for it to be a war, we are fucking killing people and bombed Ghaddafis house, it is a war. Last time I checked we weren't dropping food and medicine out of our fighter jets.


----------



## martybegan

Now you see why there is a Amphibious Task Force in the Med. Marines are well trained in Pilot rescue (Called TRAP I think). They picked up the guy and probably demolished the fighter.


----------



## High_Gravity

martybegan said:


> Now you see why there is a Amphibious Task Force in the Med. Marines are well trained in Pilot rescue (Called TRAP I think). They picked up the guy and probably demolished the fighter.



One of the guys ended up being found by the rebels, thank god it wasn't Ghaddafis thugs, it would be a fucking media circus.


----------



## FuelRod

Firing missles is a police action.
Dropping bombs and losing planes/equipment/people is a war.


----------



## Liberty




----------



## Quantum Windbag

Truthmatters said:


> Its not a war, we are there to keep gadafi from murdering his people with the peoples military while they oust a dictator.
> 
> If we dont then we will have several mid east dictators killing their people with the peoples military.
> 
> Its called good sound and thoughtful foreign policy by the entire world.



What makes it not a war? They are shooting at us, and we are shooting back? If it is not a war does that make it a police action, like Vietnam? Would you be more comfortable if we called it piracy?

*WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU CALL IT WHEN TWO OR MORE COUNTRIES ARE SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER?*


----------



## Cal

Sallow said:


> Glad they are safe.



^..


----------



## old navy

martybegan said:


> Now you see why there is a Amphibious Task Force in the Med. Marines are well trained in Pilot rescue (Called TRAP I think). They picked up the guy and probably demolished the fighter.



Yep, TRAP it is. The Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel is one of the requirements that a Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) practices during workups before deployment. The last publically known TRAP was in the 90s when AF pilot Scott O'Grady was shot down. This one could very well be the first TRAP from sea to shore for the Ospry.


----------



## old navy

Truthmatters said:


> Its not a war, we are there to keep gadafi from murdering his people with the peoples military while they oust a dictator.
> 
> If we dont then we will have several mid east dictators killing their people with the peoples military.
> 
> Its called good sound and thoughtful foreign policy by the entire world.



This removing middle eastern madmen sounds like a good idea. I wonder why no other president ever thought of it? There are a few in sub-Saharan Africa that needs removing as well. Let's get them next.


----------



## JBeukema

Quantum Windbag said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not a war, we are there to keep gadafi from murdering his people with the peoples military while they oust a dictator.
> 
> If we dont then we will have several mid east dictators killing their people with the peoples military.
> 
> Its called good sound and thoughtful foreign policy by the entire world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes it not a war? They are shooting at us, and we are shooting back? If it is not a war does that make it a police action, like Vietnam? Would you be more comfortable if we called it piracy?
> 
> *WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU CALL IT WHEN TWO OR MORE COUNTRIES ARE SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER?*
Click to expand...

Peacekeeping Operation...


----------



## Kalam

Truthmatters said:


> Its not a war, we are there to keep gadafi from murdering his people with the peoples military while they oust a dictator.
> 
> If we dont then *we will have several mid east dictators killing their people with the peoples military.*



That's been the normal state of affairs throughout MENA's modern history. Western interventionism will only exacerbate the region's problems as it always has; we need to take care of business on our own.


----------



## Kalam

Quantum Windbag said:


> *WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU CALL IT WHEN TWO OR MORE COUNTRIES ARE SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER?*


----------



## Jos

*Did the US thank the people who helped them?
No they shot them!!!*


> Channel 4 News International Editor, Lindsey Hilsum, says that the villagers were shot when a US helicopter picked up the pilot who had ejected from the F-15E Eagle plane after it experienced a mechanical failure.
> 
> The US aircraft crashed on Monday night and was found in a field outside Benghazi and landed in rebel-held territory.
> 
> The local Libyans who were injured in the rescue mission are currently in hospital. They are the first confirmed casualities of allied operations, almost four days after operations began. At the time of writing, no one had died as a result of the gunfire.
> 
> 
> Lindsey Hilsum has been in the hospital where some of the injured were taken. She has spoken to the father of a young boy who expects to have his leg amputated due to a bullet wound.


Six Libyan villagers shot by US team rescuing pilot - Channel 4 News

*U.S. rescue team shoot six Libyan civilians rushing to greet downed American fighter crew*

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-greet-downed-F-15-crew.html#ixzz1HS84aMJU


----------



## st.sheetrock

the air force was very keen to downplay the identities of both pilots who crashed f15 in wheat field, rebels delivered something to us airforce


----------



## Intense

The F-15 was supporting the Rebels, Einstein.


----------



## JBeukema

Jos said:


> *Did the US thank the people who helped them?
> No they shot them!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> Channel 4 News International Editor, Lindsey Hilsum, says that the villagers were shot when a US helicopter picked up the pilot who had ejected from the F-15E Eagle plane after it experienced a mechanical failure.
> 
> The US aircraft crashed on Monday night and was found in a field outside Benghazi and landed in rebel-held territory.
> 
> The local Libyans who were injured in the rescue mission are currently in hospital. They are the first confirmed casualities of allied operations, almost four days after operations began. At the time of writing, no one had died as a result of the gunfire.
> 
> 
> Lindsey Hilsum has been in the hospital where some of the injured were taken. She has spoken to the father of a young boy who expects to have his leg amputated due to a bullet wound.
> 
> 
> 
> Six Libyan villagers shot by US team rescuing pilot - Channel 4 News
> 
> *U.S. rescue team shoot six Libyan civilians rushing to greet downed American fighter crew*
> 
> Read more: Libya war: US rescue team shoot 6 civilians rushing to greet downed F-15 crew | Mail Online
Click to expand...



They must have appeared to the rescue team to be hostiles approaching the site.

Your links imply the locals understand the confusion



> Lindsey Hilsum has been in the hospital where some of the injured  were taken. She has spoken to the father of a young boy who expects to  have his leg amputated due to a bullet wound.
> Gauging the reaction of locals in the area, she said: "the  local Libyans do not seem resentful, they still want the coalition  forces to keep operating."



Unfortunately, friendly fire is a reality of combat


----------



## st.sheetrock

Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly zone mounts
Obaid Karki"hepcat"
Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist, Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal, unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it. Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me God.


----------



## idb

At least it wasn't shot down - it broke down apparently.
Proudly Made In America


----------



## Mad Scientist

st.sheetrock said:


> the air force was very keen to downplay the  identities of both pilots who crashed f15 in wheat field, rebels  delivered something to us airforce





st.sheetrock said:


> Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on  Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly  zone mounts
> Obaid Karki"hepcat"
> Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist,  Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal,  unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary  wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex  and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of  distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it.  Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me  God.


You've made two posts and neither one of them make any sense. Negged.


idb said:


> At least it wasn't shot down - it broke down *apparently*. Proudly Made In America


You got proof it *wasn't* shot down? Apparently the F-15 has a perfect record, no enemy has ever shot one down. If this is the first, then I could see the AF wanting to cover it up. Plus, the plane was bombed by us when it was on the ground, preventing whatever technology it had from falling into the wrong hands as well as covering up any signs of enemy fire.


----------



## Intense

st.sheetrock said:


> Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly zone mounts
> Obaid Karki"hepcat"
> Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist, Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal, unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it. Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me God.



Your perspective is too Totalitarian to know the Truth if it bit you in the Ass.


----------



## Intense

Mad Scientist said:


> st.sheetrock said:
> 
> 
> 
> the air force was very keen to downplay the  identities of both pilots who crashed f15 in wheat field, rebels  delivered something to us airforce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> st.sheetrock said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on  Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly  zone mounts
> Obaid Karki"hepcat"
> Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist,  Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal,  unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary  wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex  and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of  distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it.  Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me  God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've made two posts and neither one of them make any sense. Negged.
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least it wasn't shot down - it broke down *apparently*. Proudly Made In America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You got proof it *wasn't* shot down? Apparently the F-15 has a perfect record, no enemy has ever shot one down. If this is the first, then I could see the AF wanting to cover it up. Plus, the plane was bombed by us when it was on the ground, preventing whatever technology it had from falling into the wrong hands as well as covering up any signs of enemy fire.
Click to expand...


We may never know the truth of that, which makes it silly to take either position with authority. The Rebels did accidentally shoot down one of their own planes the other day.


----------



## Intense

Mega Merged.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight









> Remember 'Comical Ali,' the Iraqi Information Minister who claimed that Saddam Hussein's troops were winning the war even as U.S. tanks rolled into Baghdad? Meet his Benghazi cousin, Khaled al-Sayeh. It's three days into Operation Odyssey Dawn, and the military spokesman for the Libyan rebels is brimming with bravado. Thanks in part to the allied aerial campaign, with sorties flown by seven nations, he tells journalists that rebel forces have regained control of two of the four main entrances to the strategic town of Ajdabiyah, which they lost to Muammar Gaddafi's troops the previous week. Now, he says, the rebels are bypassing the enemy and cutting off its supply route. Soon, he promises, the government troops will run out of ammunition. "We are surrounding Gaddafi's forces," he says.
> 
> Consulting no notes, al-Sayeh rattles off a string of statistics that suggest the war is going against the tyrant in Tripoli: Rebels and allied airpower have destroyed all but 11 of the 80 tanks that had been moving on Benghazi; 10 have been captured intact, along with 20 pickup trucks, two armored vehicles and another fitted with radar gear. Anywhere from 400 to 600 government troops have been killed.
> 
> 
> 
> It all sounds most reassuring, until you drive to the front line between the rebels and government forces. There, 6 miles (10 km) from Ajdabiyah, the mood among rebel fighters is more tentative than triumphant. They are poorly armed. They have AK-47s, a few heavy machine guns mounted on trucks and some rocket-propelled-grenade launchers. Buffeted by a desert wind that whips sand into their eyes, young men in cars and pickup trucks stage impromptu cavalry charges toward the enemy, only to fall back in panic when fired upon. For all al-Sayeh's boasting, Gaddafi's loyalists still have plenty of tanks and artillery.
> 
> "We went about three or four kilometers forward ... but then we came back because they were bombarding us," says Ayman Salem, 27, an unemployed laborer from the port of Shahat who is clothed in camouflage fatigues and perched next to an antiaircraft gun lashed to a truck bed. His comrades-in-arms are a 26-year-old auto mechanic and a 21-year-old day laborer, both from Benghazi. Their truck is among the scores of rebel vehicles parked at odd angles along the highway, waiting.


Read more: Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

So much for leading from the rear.

NATO Agrees To Take Over Command Of Libya No-Fly Zone, U.S. Likely To Remain In Charge Of Brunt Of Combat 








> WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States welcomed a partial handover for the Libyan air campaign to NATO on Thursday, but the allies apparently balked at assuming full control and the U.S. military was left in charge of the brunt of combat.
> 
> 
> NATO agreed to take over command of the newly established no-fly zone over Libya, protective flights meant to deter Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi from putting warplanes in the air. That leaves the U.S. with responsibility for attacks on Gadhafi's ground forces and other targets, which are the toughest and most controversial portion of the operation.
> 
> The U.S had hoped the alliance would reach a consensus Thursday for NATO to take full control of the military operation authorized by the United Nations, including the protection of Libyan civilians and supporting humanitarian aid efforts on the ground. It was not immediately clear when the allies could reach agreement on the matter.
> 
> "We are taking the next step: We have agreed along with our NATO allies to transition command and control for the no-fly zone over Libya to NATO," Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said.
> 
> "All 28 allies have also now authorized military authorities to develop an operations plan for NATO to take on the broader civilian protection mission," Clinton said.
> 
> Lines of authority were unclear Thursday night, but it appeared the NATO decision sets up dual command centers and opens the door to confusion and finger-pointing. U.S. commanders would presumably be chiefly responsible for ensuring that the NATO protective flights do not conflict with planned combat operations under U.S. command.
> 
> The Pentagon indicated U.S. warplanes will keep flying strike missions over Libya.
> 
> Senior administration officials said the breakthrough came in a four-way telephone call with Clinton and the foreign ministers of Britain, France and Turkey. The four worked out the way forward, which included the immediate transfer of command and control of the no-fly zone over Libya, and by early next week of the rest of the U.N.-mandated mission.
> 
> The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive military planning, said the actual handover of the no-fly zone would occur in one or two days. They said NATO would have a final operational plan by over the weekend for how it would assume control over the rest of the protection mission, and that it would be executable by Tuesday's meeting in London of nations contributing to the military action.



NATO Agrees To Take Over Command Of Libya No-Fly Zone, U.S. Likely To Remain In Charge Of Brunt Of Combat


----------



## JBeukema

High_Gravity said:


> Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember 'Comical Ali,' the Iraqi Information Minister who claimed that Saddam Hussein's troops were winning the war even as U.S. tanks rolled into Baghdad? Meet his Benghazi cousin, Khaled al-Sayeh. It's three days into Operation Odyssey Dawn, and the military spokesman for the Libyan rebels is brimming with bravado. Thanks in part to the allied aerial campaign, with sorties flown by seven nations, he tells journalists that rebel forces have regained control of two of the four main entrances to the strategic town of Ajdabiyah, which they lost to Muammar Gaddafi's troops the previous week. Now, he says, the rebels are bypassing the enemy and cutting off its supply route. Soon, he promises, the government troops will run out of ammunition. "We are surrounding Gaddafi's forces," he says.
> 
> Consulting no notes, al-Sayeh rattles off a string of statistics that suggest the war is going against the tyrant in Tripoli: Rebels and allied airpower have destroyed all but 11 of the 80 tanks that had been moving on Benghazi; 10 have been captured intact, along with 20 pickup trucks, two armored vehicles and another fitted with radar gear. Anywhere from 400 to 600 government troops have been killed.
> 
> 
> 
> It all sounds most reassuring, until you drive to the front line between the rebels and government forces. There, 6 miles (10 km) from Ajdabiyah, the mood among rebel fighters is more tentative than triumphant. They are poorly armed. They have AK-47s, a few heavy machine guns mounted on trucks and some rocket-propelled-grenade launchers. Buffeted by a desert wind that whips sand into their eyes, young men in cars and pickup trucks stage impromptu cavalry charges toward the enemy, only to fall back in panic when fired upon. For all al-Sayeh's boasting, Gaddafi's loyalists still have plenty of tanks and artillery.
> 
> "We went about three or four kilometers forward ... but then we came back because they were bombarding us," says Ayman Salem, 27, an unemployed laborer from the port of Shahat who is clothed in camouflage fatigues and perched next to an antiaircraft gun lashed to a truck bed. His comrades-in-arms are a 26-year-old auto mechanic and a 21-year-old day laborer, both from Benghazi. Their truck is among the scores of rebel vehicles parked at odd angles along the highway, waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight - TIME
Click to expand...



He's trying to encourage the rebels. America lied to us throughout WWI so we'd be willing to keep up the fight


----------



## JBeukema

If he falls, it's important that rebel forces are the ones who take him in or set foot into his compound. This must be seen as a victory for and of the Libyan People, not the West.


----------



## Uncensored2008

High_Gravity said:


> So much for leading from the rear.



In fairness, I think Obama does lead from his rear... Every decision he makes seems to be pulled out of his ass.


----------



## High_Gravity

JBeukema said:


> If he falls, it's important that rebel forces are the ones who take him in or set foot into his compound. This must be seen as a victory for and of the Libyan People, not the West.



Definently, has to be his own people who take him out.


----------



## zzzz

The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate. 

The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?


----------



## JBeukema

zzzz said:


> The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt.


My understanding is that the majority of the military is still loyal




> Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum.


I doubt he'd go. Just like Saddam, any 'offer' to go will be total bullshit designed to ensure he remains in control.


----------



## High_Gravity

zzzz said:


> The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate.
> 
> The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?



There are big differences between Egypt and Libya. In Egypt the Military for the most part would not slaughter innocent civilians in large numbers and Mubarak was not willing to massacre huge numbers of Egyptians to stay in power. Ghaddafi on the other hand, has shown he is willing to commit genocide on his people to remain in power, like Saddam did in Iraq. The Libyan Military is broken, Ghaddafi has his own personal forces, some of them not even from Libya that are there to be totally faithful to him, they are from other African countries and are fiercly loyal to Ghaddafi because he signs the checks, they have no problem killing Libyans because they are not from there. Ghaddafi and Mubarak are different and so are Egypt and Libya, what happened in Egypt could not and would not happen in Libya.


----------



## zzzz

High_Gravity said:


> zzzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate.
> 
> The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are big differences between Egypt and Libya. In Egypt the Military for the most part would not slaughter innocent civilians in large numbers and Mubarak was not willing to massacre huge numbers of Egyptians to stay in power. Ghaddafi on the other hand, has shown he is willing to commit genocide on his people to remain in power, like Saddam did in Iraq. The Libyan Military is broken, Ghaddafi has his own personal forces, some of them not even from Libya that are there to be totally faithful to him, they are from other African countries and are fiercly loyal to Ghaddafi because he signs the checks, they have no problem killing Libyans because they are not from there. Ghaddafi and Mubarak are different and so are Egypt and Libya, what happened in Egypt could not and would not happen in Libya.
Click to expand...


Yes there are differences but in all the countries in that region the military decides who remains in power. Even though the Libyan military has suffered air and missile attacks they still have a sizable footprint on the ground. Mercs are there but as soon as they see the tide turning they will be running for their lives because they know they will be executed on the spot by the rebels. It is all about momentum now anyway. The rebels had it initially and then Ghaddafi's forces recovered and took it back. The air-strikes and missile attacks blunted that momentum and now it is stalemated.


----------



## High_Gravity

zzzz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zzzz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate.
> 
> The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are big differences between Egypt and Libya. In Egypt the Military for the most part would not slaughter innocent civilians in large numbers and Mubarak was not willing to massacre huge numbers of Egyptians to stay in power. Ghaddafi on the other hand, has shown he is willing to commit genocide on his people to remain in power, like Saddam did in Iraq. The Libyan Military is broken, Ghaddafi has his own personal forces, some of them not even from Libya that are there to be totally faithful to him, they are from other African countries and are fiercly loyal to Ghaddafi because he signs the checks, they have no problem killing Libyans because they are not from there. Ghaddafi and Mubarak are different and so are Egypt and Libya, what happened in Egypt could not and would not happen in Libya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there are differences but in all the countries in that region the military decides who remains in power. Even though the Libyan military has suffered air and missile attacks they still have a sizable footprint on the ground. Mercs are there but as soon as they see the tide turning they will be running for their lives because they know they will be executed on the spot by the rebels. It is all about momentum now anyway. The rebels had it initially and then Ghaddafi's forces recovered and took it back. The air-strikes and missile attacks blunted that momentum and now it is stalemated.
Click to expand...


The thing is the Military that are fighting for Ghaddafi are extremely loyal to him, alot of them are foreigners as well. Everyone in the Military who is against Ghaddafi has already defected to the rebels for the most part, Ghaddafis Military is similar to Saddams system, he keeps alot of them loyal to him and they will do whatever he asks, kill, rape, bomb, whatever. The Military are not going to unseat Ghaddafi in Libya. The top echelon of the Egyptian Military were trained in the US, some of them were at West Point so we had connections with them, no such connections exist with the Libyan Military.


----------



## JBeukema

zzzz said:


> Yes there are differences but in all the countries in that region the military decides who remains in power.



I'd say that applies everywhere. Try staging a revolution here and see if the military have a say in the matter. Hell, just try to leave (see: confederate war for independence)


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's Dead and Missing: The Cost of Reconquest









> The smell of decaying bodies hangs over the rows of loosely packed sand as the caretaker moves through the cemetery on Ajdabiyah's southern edge. Embarak Hamid has buried 81 people in recent days. A group of volunteers from the town, working quickly beneath the searing sunlight, have already cleared a new row. They say they will likely fill it with dozens more bodies by nightfall, as they search the corners of a city laid waste in some places by a government bombardment that lasted 11 days straight.
> 
> In little more than 24 hours, the line of Libyan rebel control has lurched forward yet again, sweeping more than 100 miles (160 km) to the west, through the towns of Ajdabiyah, Brega and Ras Lanuf, and along a coastal road of mostly desert sand dunes in between. For 11 days, the pro-rebel town of Ajdabiyah had been under siege, cut off from water and electricity, and subject to seemingly random shelling by the forces of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. But on Saturday, after a night of allied air strikes, rebel fighters poured into the city and pushed on to the towns further west; they paraded  as they have before  through a morbid playground of war-ravaged streets and shredded tanks. Meanwhile, men who had stayed behind to fight in Ajdabiyah said their families could now return from the outlying villages to which they had fled. Those pushing forward promised again to reach Gaddafi's stronghold of Sert in a matter of days.
> 
> 
> But the Libyan civilians populating the front line, as it shifts from Benghazi to Ajdabiyah, Brega and Ras Lanuf, have little doubt that rebel advancement  and safety from government shelling and siege  is heavily, if not entirely, dependent on allied air strikes. It's a fact that is troubling to both the rebel fighters and the Western governments seeking to extricate themselves from an increasingly complicated civil war. But without their assistance, the residents say, their towns would have been totally devastated and both rebels and rebel sympathizers hunted down, kidnapped or killed.
> 
> For a number of people, the missiles that freed Ajdabiyah after a week of stalemate came far too late. Much of the town is now silent and abandoned; the bullet holes and collapsed walls of apartment blocks and storefronts bear witness to the city's scourging by Gaddafi. Charred, shattered dishes, pots and pans, and the heavy metal shards of armaments, lie in the blackened rubble of one anonymous family's kitchen in a first-floor apartment in the 7th of October neighborhood. A crushed baby carriage and television set lie in the ruin of another room, and the charred refrigerator door hangs open to a swarm of flies, allowing someone's asthma medication to incubate on a rack beside the remains of rotting food.



Read more: As Libya's Rebels Advance, Civilians Search for Loved Ones - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan Rebels Close On Key Gaddafi Stronghold 








> BIN JAWWAD, Libya -- Rebel forces on Monday fought their way to the doorstep of Moammar Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, a key government stronghold guarding the road to the capital Tripoli.
> 
> 
> The lightning rebel advance of the past few days, backed by powerful international airstrikes, has restored to the opposition all the territory they lost over the past week and brought them to within 60 miles (100 miles) of this bastion of Gaddafi's power in the center of the country.
> 
> "Sirte will not be easy to take," said Gen. Hamdi Hassi, a rebel commander at the small town of Bin Jawwad, just 18 miles (30 kilometers) from the front. "Now because of NATO strikes on (the government's) heavy weapons, we're almost fighting with the same weapons, only we have Grad rockets now and they don't."
> 
> Libya's rebels have recovered hundreds of miles (kilometers) of flat, uninhabited territory at record speeds after Gaddafi's forces were forced to pull back by international air strikes that began March 19.
> 
> In a symbolic diplomatic victory for the opposition, the tiny state of Qatar recognized Libya's rebels as the legitimate representatives of the country  the first Arab state to do so.
> 
> Hassi said there was fighting now just outside the small hamlet of Nawfaliyah, 60 miles (100 kilometers) from Sirte and scouting parties had found the road ahead to be heavily mined.
> 
> He added that the current rebel strategy was to combine military assault with an attempt to win over some of the local tribes loyal to Gaddafi over to their side.
> 
> "There's Gaddafi and then there's circles around him of supporters, each circle is slowly peeling off and disappearing," Hassi said. "If they rise up it would make our job easier."
> 
> Witnesses in Sirte reported Monday there had been air strikes the night before and again early in the morning, but the town was quiet, and dozens of fighters loyal to Gaddafi could be seen roaming the streets.



Libyan Rebels Close On Key Gaddafi Stronghold


----------



## High_Gravity

Obama Libya Case Speech Coming








> WASHINGTON  President Barack Obama will make his case for U.S. involvement in Libya to an anxious public Monday night, while officials offered assurances that military action there does not set a precedent for how the U.S. will handle similar uprisings throughout the Middle East.
> 
> White House aides were reluctant to spell out details of Obama's speech, set for 7:30 p.m. EDT Monday. However, deputy national security adviser Denis McDonough said the rationale Obama would lay out for involvement in Libya cannot be applied to escalating clashes between pro- and anti-government forces in Syria and elsewhere.
> 
> "Obviously there are certain aspirations that are being voiced by each of these movements, but there's no question that each of them is unique," McDonough said. "We don't get very hung up on this question of precedent."
> 
> McDonough sidestepped questions about whether Obama would lay out an exit strategy for U.S. actions in Libya, saying only that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton would discuss those details Tuesday during a key international meeting on Libya in London.
> 
> At a separate event in Washington earlier Monday, Obama said the U.S. involvement in Libya would be, "limited, both in time and scope."
> 
> The president's remarks to the nation come after the administration scored an important diplomatic victory. NATO ambassadors on Sunday approved a plan for the alliance to assume from the U.S. command all aerial operations, including ground attacks.
> 
> That will help Obama assure the nation he can deliver on his promise that the United States will be a partner in the military action against Libya, but not from the driver's seat. Bickering among NATO members delayed the process.
> 
> Ahead of Monday's speech, Obama and his top national security officials worked to set the stage for the address  Obama in his weekly radio and Internet address, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Clinton with appearances on Sunday television news shows.
> 
> But as they made the rounds, neither Clinton nor Gates could say how long the U.S. mission would last or lay out an exit strategy.



Obama Libya Case Speech Coming


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya War: Rebels Battle Outside Gaddafi Hometown Of Sirte 








> BIN JAWWAD, Libya -- Libyan government tanks and rockets blunted a rebel assault on Moammar Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte on Tuesday and drove back the ragtag army of irregulars, even as world leaders prepared to debate the country future in London.
> 
> 
> Rockets and tank fire sent Libya's rebel volunteers in a panicked scramble away from the front lines, before the opposition was able to bring up truck mounted rocket launchers of their own and return fire.
> 
> The two sides traded salvos over the small hamlet of Bin Jawwad amid the thunderous crash of rockets and artillery shells as plumes of smoke erupted from the town. The steady drum of heavy machine gun fire and the pop of small arms could also be heard above the din.
> 
> "There aren't a lot of us in Bin Jawwad right now," said Faisal Ali, a 20 year-old-rebel who had retreated from the town. "If (Gadhafi) has enough firepower and forces using tanks, he will surely take over Bin Jawwad," he added, noting that the rebels' special forces, one of their few trained units, had not yet retreated.
> 
> The latest rebel setback emphasizes the see-saw nature of this conflict and how the opposition is still no match for the superior firepower and organization of Gadhafi's forces, despite an international campaign of deadly airstrikes.
> 
> A U.N.-mandated no-fly zone and campaign of strikes by the U.S. and its allies helped rebel forces regain territory lost of the past week, when they were on the brink of defeat by government forces.



Libya War: Rebels Battle Outside Gaddafi Hometown Of Sirte


----------



## High_Gravity

Iman al-Obeidi, Libya Woman Claiming Rape, Will Face Charges 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  A Libyan woman who burst into a Tripoli hotel to tell foreign journalists how she was gang raped by Moammar Gadhafi's troops will face criminal charges, a government spokesman said on Tuesday.
> 
> The spokesman, Moussa Ibrahim, said the men accused by Iman al-Obeidi are now suing her. A son of a high ranking Libyan official was among those she claimed had raped her, he said.
> 
> "The boys she accused are bringing a case against her because it's a very grave offense to accuse someone of a sexual crime," Ibrahim told reporters in the Libyan capital.
> 
> Al-Obeidi made headlines when she rushed distraught into Tripoli's Rixos Hotel on Saturday, seeking to speak to foreign media. She claimed she was detained by a number of Gadhafi troops at a Tripoli checkpoint on Wednesday. She said they were drinking whiskey and handcuffed her, and that 15 men later raped her.
> 
> Al-Obeidi's claim could not be independently verified. The Associated Press only identifies rape victims who volunteer their names.
> 
> As she started to tell her story, al-Obeidi was tackled by waitresses and government minders and dragged away from the hotel, and has since been missing. Her parents claim she is held hostage at Gadhafi's compound in the Libyan capital.
> 
> Libyan authorities have alternately labeled al-Obeidi a drunk, a prostitute and a thief.
> 
> Ibrahim on Tuesday refused to discuss al-Obeidi's whereabouts. But in an interview with the AP on Sunday, he had said she was with her sister in the Libyan capital. He also said at the time that police have a file on al-Obeidi for prostitution and petty theft.
> 
> However, al-Obeidi's parents told satellite Al-Jazeera Television on Monday that their daughter is a lawyer now pursuing a post-graduate degree.



Iman al-Obeidi, Libya Woman Claiming Rape, Will Face Charges


----------



## High_Gravity

This keeps getting better and better.

Until uprising, Gadhafis son was on U.S. internship








> When unrest exploded in Libya last month, Khamis Gadhafi--the youngest son of the country's embattled leader Muammar Gadhafi--wasn't around. He was on an internship program in the United States.
> 
> Khamis, who runs Libya's special forces, quickly returned to his home country, where he has led a military unit that has brutally suppressed rebel forces.
> 
> The internship, which lasted a month, was sponsored by AECOM, a Los Angeles-based global engineering and design company that has been working with the Libyan regime to modernize the country's infrastructure. Khadis made stops in San Francisco, Colorado, Houston, Washington, and New York City, meeting with high-tech companies (including Google, Apple, and Intel), universities, and defense contractors like Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin. While in the Big Apple, Khamis even took in the Broadway show "Mamma Mia."
> 
> News of Khamis's internship, which was approved by the State Department, was first reported by ABC News.
> 
> Since coming home, Khamis appears to have played a key role in helping his father's regime in its violent campaign to quell the uprising. He has led the elite 32nd Reinforced Brigade, known at the Khamis Brigade, which reportedly has been involved in brutally suppressing rebel forces.
> 
> Vice Adm. William Gortney of the Joint Chiefs of Staff described the Khamis Brigade, whose headquarters were the target of U.S. Tomahawk missiles, as "one of the most active in terms of attacking innocent people."
> 
> On Monday night, Libyan television showed Khamis dressed in his military uniform and greeting people at his father's Tripoli compound.
> 
> A spokesman for AECOM told CNN that the company was "shocked and outraged" to learn of Khamis' military role.
> 
> AECOM added in a statement: "The educational internship, which consisted of publicly available information, was aligned with our efforts to improve quality of life, specifically in Libya, where we were advancing public infrastructure such as access to clean water; quality housing; safe and efficient roads and bridges; reliable and affordable energy; and related projects that create jobs and opportunity."



Until uprising, Gadhafi&#8217;s son was on U.S. internship - Yahoo! News


----------



## tigerbob

High_Gravity said:


> This keeps getting better and better.
> 
> Until uprising, Gadhafis son was on U.S. internship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When unrest exploded in Libya last month, Khamis Gadhafi--the youngest son of the country's embattled leader Muammar Gadhafi--wasn't around. He was on an internship program in the United States.
> 
> Khamis, who runs Libya's special forces, quickly returned to his home country, where he has led a military unit that has brutally suppressed rebel forces.
> 
> The internship, which lasted a month, was sponsored by AECOM, a Los Angeles-based global engineering and design company that has been working with the Libyan regime to modernize the country's infrastructure. Khadis made stops in San Francisco, Colorado, Houston, Washington, and New York City, meeting with high-tech companies (including Google, Apple, and Intel), universities, and defense contractors like Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin. While in the Big Apple, Khamis even took in the Broadway show "Mamma Mia."
> 
> News of Khamis's internship, which was approved by the State Department, was first reported by ABC News.
> 
> Since coming home, Khamis appears to have played a key role in helping his father's regime in its violent campaign to quell the uprising. He has led the elite 32nd Reinforced Brigade, known at the Khamis Brigade, which reportedly has been involved in brutally suppressing rebel forces.
> 
> Vice Adm. William Gortney of the Joint Chiefs of Staff described the Khamis Brigade, whose headquarters were the target of U.S. Tomahawk missiles, as "one of the most active in terms of attacking innocent people."
> 
> On Monday night, Libyan television showed Khamis dressed in his military uniform and greeting people at his father's Tripoli compound.
> 
> *A spokesman for AECOM told CNN that the company was "shocked and outraged" to learn of Khamis' military role.*
> 
> AECOM added in a statement: "The educational internship, which consisted of publicly available information, was aligned with our efforts to improve quality of life, specifically in Libya, where we were advancing public infrastructure such as access to clean water; quality housing; safe and efficient roads and bridges; reliable and affordable energy; and related projects that create jobs and opportunity."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until uprising, Gadhafis son was on U.S. internship - Yahoo! News
Click to expand...


Well, if you don't want to risk waking up with a whore then you shouldn't go to bed with a whore.


----------



## High_Gravity

tigerbob said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> This keeps getting better and better.
> 
> Until uprising, Gadhafis son was on U.S. internship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When unrest exploded in Libya last month, Khamis Gadhafi--the youngest son of the country's embattled leader Muammar Gadhafi--wasn't around. He was on an internship program in the United States.
> 
> Khamis, who runs Libya's special forces, quickly returned to his home country, where he has led a military unit that has brutally suppressed rebel forces.
> 
> The internship, which lasted a month, was sponsored by AECOM, a Los Angeles-based global engineering and design company that has been working with the Libyan regime to modernize the country's infrastructure. Khadis made stops in San Francisco, Colorado, Houston, Washington, and New York City, meeting with high-tech companies (including Google, Apple, and Intel), universities, and defense contractors like Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin. While in the Big Apple, Khamis even took in the Broadway show "Mamma Mia."
> 
> News of Khamis's internship, which was approved by the State Department, was first reported by ABC News.
> 
> Since coming home, Khamis appears to have played a key role in helping his father's regime in its violent campaign to quell the uprising. He has led the elite 32nd Reinforced Brigade, known at the Khamis Brigade, which reportedly has been involved in brutally suppressing rebel forces.
> 
> Vice Adm. William Gortney of the Joint Chiefs of Staff described the Khamis Brigade, whose headquarters were the target of U.S. Tomahawk missiles, as "one of the most active in terms of attacking innocent people."
> 
> On Monday night, Libyan television showed Khamis dressed in his military uniform and greeting people at his father's Tripoli compound.
> 
> *A spokesman for AECOM told CNN that the company was "shocked and outraged" to learn of Khamis' military role.*
> 
> AECOM added in a statement: "The educational internship, which consisted of publicly available information, was aligned with our efforts to improve quality of life, specifically in Libya, where we were advancing public infrastructure such as access to clean water; quality housing; safe and efficient roads and bridges; reliable and affordable energy; and related projects that create jobs and opportunity."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until uprising, Gadhafis son was on U.S. internship - Yahoo! News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you don't want to risk waking up with a whore then you shouldn't go to bed with a whore.
Click to expand...


Huh? explain?


----------



## tigerbob

High_Gravity said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> This keeps getting better and better.
> 
> Until uprising, Gadhafis son was on U.S. internship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until uprising, Gadhafis son was on U.S. internship - Yahoo! News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you don't want to risk waking up with a whore then you shouldn't go to bed with a whore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Huh? explain?
Click to expand...


My take is that AECOM offered him an internship to improve their relationship with Gaddafi (a political business decision), and are scrambling to limit the negative PR now that the son is showing signs of being every bit as unpleasant as the father.

They would have considered this potential eventuality before offering the internship, and the negative press it could generate, but decided to go ahead with it anyway to strengthen their business relationships within Libya.

Hence my observation about waking up with whores.


----------



## High_Gravity

tigerbob said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you don't want to risk waking up with a whore then you shouldn't go to bed with a whore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? explain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My take is that AECOM offered him an internship to improve their relationship with Gaddafi (a political business decision), and are scrambling to limit the negative PR now that the son is showing signs of being every bit as unpleasant as the father.
> 
> They would have considered this potential eventuality before offering the internship, and the negative press it could generate, but decided to go ahead with it anyway to strengthen their business relationships within Libya.
> 
> Hence my observation about waking up with whores.
Click to expand...


I agree with what you said, but my thing is Ghaddafi wasn't that bad of a guy if we offering internships to his sons, when alot of Americans can't even find work. I don't know why the US worked years on reparing relations with the Libyans, than piss it all away to back up some rebels with Al Qaeda ties, it boggles my mind.


----------



## High_Gravity

Obama considers arming Libyan rebels








> The United States and Britain have said they are willing to consider arming Libyan rebels if Muammar Gaddafi continues to cling to power in the face of an opposition military campaign backed by international air strikes.
> 
> U.S. President Barack Obama said a negotiated settlement to end the conflict is still on the table if Gaddafi was to stand down, but supplying weapons to anti-government fighters could be an alternative route.
> 
> "I think it's fair to say that if we wanted to get weapons into Libya, we probably could," Obama told ABC. "We're looking at all our options at this point."
> 
> UK prime minister, David Cameron, echoed his comments saying that arming the rebels was a legal extension of the U.N.-mandated action in Libya and would not violate an arms embargo.
> 
> "Our view is that this would not necessarily rule out the provision of assistance to those protecting civilians in certain circumstances," he told Britain's parliament. "So ... we do not rule it out but we have not taken the decision to do so."
> 
> Gaddafi's forces continued to claw back territory captured by rebels on Wednesday as gains made under cover of western air strikes were lost to the firepower of the government troops.
> 
> Under heavy bombardment from Gaddafi's forces, rebel fighters were forced to pull out of the oil town of Ras Lanuf, Reuters said. A euphoric westward advance begun by the rebels after government troops were driven by air strikes from the gateway town of Ajdabiya now appeared to be in disarray.
> 
> "Gaddafi hit us with huge rockets. He has entered Ras Lanuf," rebel fighter Faraj Muftah told Reuters
> 
> On Tuesday, forces loyal to the government retook the town of Nawfaliyah, 75 miles east of Gaddafi's hometown Sirt, ambushing the rebels and forcing them into a panicked retreat eastwards.
> 
> With no end in sight to the conflict, a group of 40 governments and international bodies met in London on Tuesday to discuss options for Libya.
> 
> The group agreed to continue the airstrikes against Libyan forces until Gaddafi complied with a U.N. resolution to end attacks on civilians and to set up a "contact group" of nations to coordinate help for a post-Gaddafi Libya.



Obama | Libya | Arming Rebels


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Can Live In Uganda








> KAMPALA, Uganda -- Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is welcome to live in the East African nation of Uganda, the president's spokesman told The Associated Press on Wednesday, in what appears to be the first country to offer him refuge.
> 
> 
> An intense diplomatic effort is under way to find a country where Gadhafi can go, as an international military effort against Gadhafi's forces continues.
> 
> The spokesman for Uganda's president, Tamale Mirundi, told the AP that Gadhafi would be welcome in Uganda. He said Uganda's policy is to accept asylum seekers, especially because so many Ugandans fled the country during the longtime rule of dictator Idi Amin.
> 
> "So we have soft spots for asylum seekers. Gadhafi would be allowed to live here if he chooses to do so," Mirundi said.
> 
> Another possible reason Uganda might accept Gadhafi is that Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni is, like Gadhafi, among the old guard of African leaders. Museveni has been in power for 25 years, though he won re-election in February amid signs that many Ugandans still genuinely support him.
> 
> Gadhafi has been in power for more than 40 years.
> 
> Museveni had planned to travel to Libya in mid-March, but sent his foreign minister instead. Days later, Museveni issued a nine-page statement denouncing the U.S. and European military action for interfering in what he said was an internal matter. He also praised Gadhafi, though he urged the Libyan leader to negotiate with the rebels.
> 
> "Whatever his faults, is a true nationalist," Museveni said of Gadhafi. "I prefer nationalists to puppets of foreign interests."
> 
> One complicating factor to Gadhafi's living in Uganda may be the International Criminal Court, whose chief prosecutor has said he will decide by May whether to seek an indictment against Gadhafi. Uganda is a signatory to the statute that created the court.
> 
> Muslims in Uganda may welcome Gadhafi as well. Muslim leader Hamuza Kaduga noted that Gadhafi paid for a large modern mosque in Kampala and has supported other projects.
> 
> Uganda currently hosts more than 20,000 refugees from Kenya, Somalia, Sudan, Eritrea and Rwanda.



Gaddafi Can Live In Uganda


----------



## High_Gravity

This keeps getting better and better, what next? did Ghaddafis son visit the White House and watch a college basketball game with the President?

Gaddafi's Son Toured Air Force Academy Before Uprising 








> DENVER -- The Air Force Academy confirms that a son of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi visited the school last month during a U.S. tour that included businesses and other schools.
> 
> Academy spokesman Lt. Col. John Bryan said Wednesday that Khamis Gadhafi got a standard VIP tour of the school on Feb. 7  eight days before the Libyan uprising began.
> 
> Bryan says it included academic, athletic and residential buildings, and briefings from the dean of faculty and the vice superintendent.
> 
> Bryan says Gadhafi wouldn't have learned anything of benefit to the Libyan military.
> 
> The U.S. tour, first reported last week, was organized by an infrastructure company with business interests in Libya. It was cut short when the Libyan uprising erupted.



Gaddafi's Son Toured Air Force Academy Before Uprising


----------



## High_Gravity

CIA Operatives Reportedly On The Ground In Libya 



> WASHINGTON (AP) -- The CIA has sent small teams of operatives into Libya after the agency's station in the capital was forced to close, and officers assisted in rescuing one of the two crew members of an F-15E Strike Eagle that crashed, an American official and a former U.S. intelligence officer told The Associated Press on Wednesday.
> 
> The agency's precise role in Libya is unclear. Intelligence experts said the CIA would have sent officials to make contact with the opposition and assess the strength and needs of the rebel forces battling Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi in the event President Barack Obama decided to arm them.
> 
> The American official and the former U.S. intelligence officer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information, said the CIA helped safely recover the fighter jet's weapons specialist, who was first picked up by rebels. The pilot was rescued by Marines.
> 
> They suffered only minor injuries, the military has said. Officials have declined to say what mission the F-15 was on at the time of the crash March 21. The crew ejected after the aircraft malfunctioned during a mission against a Libyan missile site.
> 
> The former intelligence officer said some CIA officers also had been staging from the agency's station in Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates.
> 
> The New York Times first reported the CIA had sent in groups of CIA operatives and that British operatives were directing airstrikes.
> 
> Obama said in a national address Monday night that U.S. troops would not be used on the ground in Libya. The statement allowed for wiggle room as the president explores options in case he decides to use covert action to ship arms to the rebels and train them. That would require a presidential finding.
> 
> In that event, the CIA would take the lead, as it has done in the past such as in Afghanistan after the Sept. 11 attacks and the run-up to the Iraq invasion in 2003. In those covert action programs, CIA officers along with special operation forces were sent in, providing arms to opposition forces to help fight the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
> 
> The White House said Wednesday it is assessing options for "all types of assistance" to the rebels.



CIA Operatives Reportedly On The Ground In Libya


----------



## High_Gravity

The Gaddafi Regime Suffers A Huge Defection








> In a thundering blow to Muammar Gaddafi's standing and the morale of his regime, Libya's Foreign Minister Moussa Kusa defected to London on Wednesday night, in the regime's most high-profile break since the Western bombing campaign began nearly two weeks agoif not, indeed, the most momentous split in the Libyan government in years.
> 
> Kusa, who has long been one of Gaddafi's most trusted aides, landed at London's Farnborough Airport at about 9 p.m., after slipping across Libya's border into Tunisia earlier this week. He was flown on a British military jet, and immediately requested political asylum. "Kusa is not happy about how the government has handled the conflict," said his friend, Noman Benotman, a former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which was aligned with al-Qaeda until 2008, speaking to TIME late Wednesday night. Benotman said Kusa revealed earlier this month that he was distressed that Gaddafi had once again turned Libya into a pariah state, after years of Kusa's careful work in restoring its standing in the U.S. and Europe. "He was the key figure to rehabilitate Libya with the international community," Benotman said by phone. "Now it is all gone."
> 
> Kusa's defection comes just one day after Western and Arab leaders met in London for a key coalition meeting to decide the next steps in their campaign against Gaddafi. There, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and other leaders warned Gaddafi that his time in power was quickly running out, and invited those around him to ditch the regime before it was too late. Kusa appears to have been the first to flee  but Benotman says he is unlikely to be the last. "I'm aware of dozens of people in Tripoli who are not happy," said Benotman, who was in Tripoli when the revolt erupted in mid-February, and who has close contacts with high-level Libyan officials. "The message being delivered is that they have to make a decision now."




Read more: The Gaddafi Regime Suffers A Huge Defection - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

Why Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi's Hometown, Matters In The Fight For Libya 








> Earlier this week, rebel forces in Libya fought their way to the outskirts of Sirte, a seafront city about the size of Tallahassee. The day before, pushing westward along the coast from Ajdabiya, they'd recaptured the oil towns of Brega and Ras Lanuf -- Sirte, experts said, was the last major obstacle standing in the rebels' path to the capital city of Tripoli.
> 
> Sirte. Before Sunday, few outside Libya had heard of it. Now it's being portrayed as the key to Libya's hopes for democracy, the fulcrum on which the nation's fate would turn. Its importance can be explained partly by location, its proximity to the capital. But it mattered for other reasons, too, reasons that reveal a lot about a conflict with complexities outsiders are only beginning to grasp.
> 
> In 1942, as every Libyan schoolchild knows, a future authoritarian ruler was born in a tent outside the city. He went to school in the city itself, not that it was much of a city at the time. Even after he came to power in 1969, Sirte was a quiet rural outpost in a country that was pretty provincial.
> 
> Then, in the late 1980s, he decided to make his hometown the new capital. So what if it was in the middle of nowhere? He was Muammar al-Gaddafi. Who would stop him?
> 
> He began moving government offices there and ordered the construction of Soviet-style administrative buildings. He built a conference center whose unusual design brings to mind an enormous tent. Sirte would be his Brasilia, a fabricated city in the wilderness. It was a monument to an idea, that idea being the greatness of Gaddafi.
> 
> The plan never panned out. Even with its new hotels and wide, well-paved roads, Sirte was a dull backwater and no one wanted to move there, certainly not government officials who made lives for themselves in Tripoli. In a rare instance of Gaddafi not getting what he wanted, the officials stayed where they were. But the hotels, the conference centers, the infrastructure -- all remained intact.
> 
> Charles O. Cecil, a retired diplomat who served in Libya in 2006, said that during his stay in the country many of these buildings stood half-empty, concrete-and-glass metaphors for the unfulfilled promises of Gaddafi's so-called revolution. A city built as a monument to Gaddafi's power had turned out to be, quite literally, an empty symbol.



Why Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi's Hometown, Matters In The Fight For Libya


----------



## High_Gravity

Kalashnikovs vs. Tanks: What Libyan Rebels Need to Win








> On Wednesday, when asked why the Libyan rebels were retreating, one of their spokesmen, Colonel Ahmed Bany, said archly, "You are obviously well aware of the difference between a tank and a Kalashnikov." It could be the difference between victory and defeat.
> 
> The rebels have repeatedly emphasized their relative hopelessness in squaring off against Muammar Gaddafi's forces, using only an apparently large supply of light arms, including AK-47s, machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades. These arms are no match for Gaddafi's tanks, the rebels say. To succeed, they require large weapons to defeat the regime's tanks and Grad missiles. "Our forces have only got light weapons, and are facing military might," said Bany. "No matter how enthusiastic or courageous [the rebels may be], a handgun has no chance against [Gaddafi's forces]. Might is might, but if you don't have the military might behind it to enforce that might, then it's useless."
> 
> But what kind of armaments could the rebels use right now? Said Bany: "The types of weapons that we're seeking are the type that would be able to eliminate or destroy [Gaddafi's] military mechanization." Asked whether his forces are also in need of communications and logistical support, Bany said, "Right now we are suffering from this problem  difficulty of communications. We are trying as best we can to have communications with the components of our forces. And we are in communications with them and are able to contact them, but we are in need of more-advanced equipment."
> 
> Questioned about the presence of al-Qaeda elements in the ranks of the rebel army, Bany said, "We don't have this type of fundamentalist thinking or attitudes. So it's not on our part to be organizing any type of al-Qaeda cells within our ranks. If there are Libyans who were associated with al-Qaeda around the world previously and who are now back in Libya fighting, they are fighting as Libyans. The association with al-Qaeda is nonexistent here. They are fighting as Libyans."




Read more: Libya Rebels Want Arms, Money to Defeat Gaddafi Forces - TIME


----------



## tigerbob

I was under the impression that tanks were being destroyed from the air by US / UK / French jets.  

But I'm not really following this story....


----------



## High_Gravity

tigerbob said:


> I was under the impression that tanks were being destroyed from the air by US / UK / French jets.
> 
> But I'm not really following this story....



Some of them are but once Ghaddafi gets tanks inside the rebel cities there nothing we can do, we can't bomb the whole city otherwise we kill the rebels as well. The rebels need RPGS, Rocket launchers and missiles to counter the tanks and other heavy weapons from Ghaddafis army.


----------



## tigerbob

High_Gravity said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was under the impression that tanks were being destroyed from the air by US / UK / French jets.
> 
> But I'm not really following this story....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of them are but once Ghaddafi gets tanks inside the rebel cities there nothing we can do, we can't bomb the whole city otherwise we kill the rebels as well. The rebels need RPGS, Rocket launchers and missiles to counter the tanks and other heavy weapons from Ghaddafis army.
Click to expand...


I'm sure they do, but I don't know enough about exactly who the rebels are to know whether or not these should be given to them.  History indicates that putting military supplies in the hands of "rebels" tends to lead to them being fired back at us further down the road.  

That's the reason I have absolutely no problem with waging an aggressive air campaign. With satellite surveillance and control of the air it should be extraordinarily difficult for Gaddafi's armor to get into rebel held areas without being spotted and taken out from the air.


----------



## High_Gravity

tigerbob said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was under the impression that tanks were being destroyed from the air by US / UK / French jets.
> 
> But I'm not really following this story....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of them are but once Ghaddafi gets tanks inside the rebel cities there nothing we can do, we can't bomb the whole city otherwise we kill the rebels as well. The rebels need RPGS, Rocket launchers and missiles to counter the tanks and other heavy weapons from Ghaddafis army.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure they do, but I don't know enough about exactly who the rebels are to know whether or not these should be given to them.  History indicates that putting military supplies in the hands of "rebels" tends to lead to them being fired back at us further down the road.
> 
> That's the reason I have absolutely no problem with waging an aggressive air campaign. With satellite surveillance and control of the air it should be extraordinarily difficult for Gaddafi's armor to get into rebel held areas without being spotted and taken out from the air.
Click to expand...


You would think so however several reports say Ghaddafis forces are beating back the rebels even with the air support. Either NATO is being soft with the air strikes since they took over or we are not getting to all of Ghaddafis guns on the ground, in either case it looks like rebels will need alot more help if we want to tilt this war in their favor, I agree with you completely about just handing the weapons over to them though.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels: 'No Place For An Islamic State In Libya' 









> BENGHAZI, Libya  An envoy of Moammar Gadhafi told Greece's prime minister Sunday that the Libyan leader was seeking a way out of his country's crisis two weeks after his government's attacks to put down a rebellion drew international airstrikes, Greek officials said.
> 
> Abdul-Ati al-Obeidi, a former Libyan prime minister who has served as a Gadhafi envoy during the crisis, will travel next to Turkey and Malta in a sign that Gadhafi's regime may be softening its hard line in the face of the sustained attacks.
> 
> "From the Libyan envoy's comments it appears that the regime is seeking a solution," Greek Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas said in a statement after the meeting in Athens.
> 
> The foreign minister said the Greek side stressed the international community's call for Libya to comply with the U.N. resolution that authorized the airstrikes and demanded Gadhafi and the rebels end hostilities.
> 
> The message, Droutsas said, was: "Full respect and implementation of the United Nations decisions, an immediate cease-fire, an end to violence and hostilities, particularly against the civilian population of Libya."
> 
> Gadhafi's government has declared several cease-fires but has not abided by them.
> 
> Few other details of the Athens talks were released publically.
> 
> On Friday, the Libyan envoy had said Gadhafi's government was attempting to hold talks with the U.S., Britain and France in an effort to halt the international airstrikes that began March 19 and which have pounded Libya's troops and armor and grounded its air force.
> 
> Gadhafi's superior forces had been close to taking the rebel capital of Benghazi in eastern Libya before the international military campaign.



Libya Rebels: 'No Place For An Islamic State In Libya'


----------



## High_Gravity

Curt Weldon, Former US Representative, In Libya For Talks With Gaddafi 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  A former U.S. congressman invited by Moammar Gadhafi arrived in Tripoli on Wednesday on a self-described private mission to urge the Libyan leader to step down as rebels and pro-government forces waged near stalemate battles.
> 
> Curt Weldon, a Pennsylvania Republican who has visited Libya twice before, said he leading a private delegation and had informed the White House and some members of Congress about his trip. He was in Libya's capital as a White House envoy, Chris Stevens, was meeting rebels in their de facto capital, Benghazi, to gauge their intentions and capabilities.
> 
> Gadhafi has been widely excluded from international efforts to broker a peace plan, with rebels insisting that his four-decade rule must end. Weldon would be one of the few high-profile Westerners to meet with Gadhafi since the rebellion began in February.
> 
> Weldon, who served two decades in Congress before losing his seat in 2006, was part of a bipartisan delegation that visited Libya in 2004 after Gadhafi agreed to abandon his nuclear program. The seven-member U.S. team included then-Sen. Joe Biden and included an address by Weldon to the Libyan Peoples' General Conference  a pro-Gadhafi forum  to urge greater understanding between Libya and the United States.
> 
> Weldon also visited Libya last year to study U.S. business opportunities.
> 
> "There is no question that America should play a critical role in helping the Libyans build a new government," Weldon wrote in an editorial published Tuesday in The New York Times. "Sadly, in the years since my first trip, Washington has squandered many opportunities to achieve that goal without bloodshed. And unless we begin to engage with the country's leaders  even those close to Col. Gadhafi  we may again lose our chance to help build a new Libya."
> 
> The rebels, aided by U.N.-authorized airstrikes intended to protect civilians from Gadhafi's forces, have maintained control of much of the eastern half of Libya since early in the uprising, while Gadhafi has clung to much of the west. Gadhafi has been putting out feelers for a cease-fire, but he refuses to step down.
> 
> Neither government forces nor the rebels have made any serious gains in recent days, and the conflict has shifted to smaller objectives on both sides, such as control of the key oil port of Brega.
> 
> Rebels have complained that NATO airstrikes come too slowly to seriously disrupt the pro-Gadhafi troops. But the French foreign minister, Alain Juppe, defended the air campaign, saying the missions are becoming more complicated as Gadhafi's forces position themselves in heavily populated civilian areas to make targeting difficult.



Curt Weldon, Former US Representative, In Libya For Talks With Gaddafi


----------



## tigerbob

High_Gravity said:


> Curt Weldon, Former US Representative, In Libya For Talks With Gaddafi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI, Libya  A former U.S. congressman invited by Moammar Gadhafi arrived in Tripoli on Wednesday on a self-described private mission to urge the Libyan leader to step down as rebels and pro-government forces waged near stalemate battles.
> 
> Curt Weldon, a Pennsylvania Republican who has visited Libya twice before, said he leading a private delegation and had informed the White House and some members of Congress about his trip. He was in Libya's capital as a White House envoy, Chris Stevens, was meeting rebels in their de facto capital, Benghazi, to gauge their intentions and capabilities.
> 
> Gadhafi has been widely excluded from international efforts to broker a peace plan, with rebels insisting that his four-decade rule must end. Weldon would be one of the few high-profile Westerners to meet with Gadhafi since the rebellion began in February.
> 
> Weldon, who served two decades in Congress before losing his seat in 2006, was part of a bipartisan delegation that visited Libya in 2004 after Gadhafi agreed to abandon his nuclear program. The seven-member U.S. team included then-Sen. Joe Biden and included an address by Weldon to the Libyan Peoples' General Conference  a pro-Gadhafi forum  to urge greater understanding between Libya and the United States.
> 
> Weldon also visited Libya last year to study U.S. business opportunities.
> 
> "There is no question that America should play a critical role in helping the Libyans build a new government," Weldon wrote in an editorial published Tuesday in The New York Times. "Sadly, in the years since my first trip, Washington has squandered many opportunities to achieve that goal without bloodshed. And unless we begin to engage with the country's leaders  even those close to Col. Gadhafi  we may again lose our chance to help build a new Libya."
> 
> The rebels, aided by U.N.-authorized airstrikes intended to protect civilians from Gadhafi's forces, have maintained control of much of the eastern half of Libya since early in the uprising, while Gadhafi has clung to much of the west. Gadhafi has been putting out feelers for a cease-fire, but he refuses to step down.
> 
> Neither government forces nor the rebels have made any serious gains in recent days, and the conflict has shifted to smaller objectives on both sides, such as control of the key oil port of Brega.
> 
> Rebels have complained that NATO airstrikes come too slowly to seriously disrupt the pro-Gadhafi troops. But the French foreign minister, Alain Juppe, defended the air campaign, saying the missions are becoming more complicated as Gadhafi's forces position themselves in heavily populated civilian areas to make targeting difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curt Weldon, Former US Representative, In Libya For Talks With Gaddafi
Click to expand...


Those are fucking horrible sunglasses.


----------



## Uncensored2008

tigerbob said:


> Those are fucking horrible sunglasses.



Yeah, but they go with his skirt.


----------



## High_Gravity

Obama blasted this fool with cruise missiles and fighter jets, and now hes kissing Baracks ass.

Gadhafi, in letter, asks Obama to end air strikes









> WASHINGTON &#8212; Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi has appealed directly to President Barack Obama to halt what the Libyan leader called "an unjust war," and wished Obama good luck in his bid for re-election next year.
> 
> In a rambling, three-page letter to Obama obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press, Gadhafi implored Obama to stop the NATO-led air campaign, which the Libyan called an "unjust war against a small people of a developing country."
> 
> "You are a man who has enough courage to annul a wrong and mistaken action," Gadhafi wrote in the letter that was sent to the State Department and forwarded immediately to the White House, according to a U.S. official who has seen the letter. "I am sure that you are able to shoulder the responsibility for that."
> 
> "To serving world peace ... Friendship between our peoples ... and for the sake of economic, and security cooperation against terror, you are in a position to keep Nato (NATO) off the Libyan affair for good," Gadhafi wrote.
> 
> White House press secretary Jay Carney confirmed that the White House received a letter from Gadhafi.
> 
> As for Gadhafi's call for a ceasefire, Carney appeared to dismiss it for now.
> 
> "The conditions the president laid out are clear," Carney told reporters traveling with Obama to New York Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> 
> In the letter, received earlier Wednesday, Gadhafi says his country had been hurt more morally than physically by the NATO campaign and that a democratic society could not be built through missiles and aircraft. He also repeated his claim that his foes are members of the al-Qaida terrorist network.
> 
> Addressing Obama as "our son" and "excellency," Gadhafi said that his country had been hurt more "morally" than "physically" by the NATO campaign. He
> 
> The letter, composed in formal but stilted English, includes numerous spelling and grammatical errors.
> 
> "Our dear son, Excellency, Baraka Hussein Abu oumama, your intervention is the name of the U.S.A. is a must, so that Nato (NATO) would withdraw finally from the Libyan affair," Gadhafi wrote. "Libya should be left to Libyans within the African union frame."



Gadhafi, in letter, asks Obama to end air strikes


----------



## tigerbob

Uncensored2008 said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are fucking horrible sunglasses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but they go with his skirt.
Click to expand...


Inspired, no doubt, by Sex and the City 2 being set in Abu Dhabi.


----------



## High_Gravity

NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology 








> BRUSSELS  NATO acknowledged Friday that its airstrikes had hit rebels using tanks to fight government forces in eastern Libya, saying no one told them the rebels used tanks.
> 
> British Rear Adm. Russell Harding, the deputy commander of the NATO operation, said in the past, only forces loyal to Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi had used heavy armored vehicles.
> 
> Harding says the rebels and government troops are engaged in a series of advances and retreats between the eastern coastal towns of Brega and Ajdabiya, making it difficult for pilots to distinguish between them.
> 
> NATO jets attacked a rebel convoy between these two towns Thursday, killing at least five fighters and destroying or damaging a number of armored vehicles.
> 
> "It would appear that two of our strikes yesterday may have resulted in (rebel) deaths," Harding told reporters in Naples, where the alliance's operational center is located.
> 
> "I am not apologizing," he said. "The situation on the ground was and remains extremely fluid, and until yesterday we did not have information that (rebel) forces are using tanks."
> 
> The strikes, including an attack earlier this week, provoked angry denunciations of NATO by the rebels. At the same time, NATO officials have expressed frustration with the Libyan insurgents, who now view the alliance, whose mandate is limited to protecting civilians in Libya, as their proxy air force.
> 
> NATO's Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, however, expressed regret over the loss of life, saying alliance forces were doing everything possible to avoid harming civilians.
> 
> NATO last week took control over the international airstrikes that began March 19 as a U.S.-led mission. The airstrikes thwarted Gadhafi's efforts to crush the rebellion in the North African nation he has ruled for more than four decades, but the rebels remain outnumbered and outgunned and have had difficulty pushing into government-held territory even with air support.



NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology


----------



## tigerbob

High_Gravity said:


> NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BRUSSELS  NATO acknowledged Friday that its airstrikes had hit rebels using tanks to fight government forces in eastern Libya, saying no one told them the rebels used tanks.
> 
> British Rear Adm. Russell Harding, the deputy commander of the NATO operation, said in the past, only forces loyal to Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi had used heavy armored vehicles.
> 
> Harding says the rebels and government troops are engaged in a series of advances and retreats between the eastern coastal towns of Brega and Ajdabiya, making it difficult for pilots to distinguish between them.
> 
> NATO jets attacked a rebel convoy between these two towns Thursday, killing at least five fighters and destroying or damaging a number of armored vehicles.
> 
> "It would appear that two of our strikes yesterday may have resulted in (rebel) deaths," Harding told reporters in Naples, where the alliance's operational center is located.
> 
> "I am not apologizing," he said. "The situation on the ground was and remains extremely fluid, and until yesterday we did not have information that (rebel) forces are using tanks."
> 
> *The strikes, including an attack earlier this week, provoked angry denunciations of NATO by the rebels.* At the same time, NATO officials have expressed frustration with the Libyan insurgents, who now view the alliance, whose mandate is limited to protecting civilians in Libya, as their proxy air force.
> 
> NATO's Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, however, expressed regret over the loss of life, saying alliance forces were doing everything possible to avoid harming civilians.
> 
> NATO last week took control over the international airstrikes that began March 19 as a U.S.-led mission. The airstrikes thwarted Gadhafi's efforts to crush the rebellion in the North African nation he has ruled for more than four decades, but the rebels remain outnumbered and outgunned and have had difficulty pushing into government-held territory even with air support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology
Click to expand...


Hmmmmm.  I'll bet the denunciations stopped short of calling for an end to the airstrikes.  

I'll also bet they didn't cover an admission that perhaps the rebels should keep NATO more informed.

This is where it starts to get tricky, but when NATO is tasked with taking out ground armor, why should anyone expect an apology when it does what it says on the tin?


----------



## High_Gravity

tigerbob said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BRUSSELS  NATO acknowledged Friday that its airstrikes had hit rebels using tanks to fight government forces in eastern Libya, saying no one told them the rebels used tanks.
> 
> British Rear Adm. Russell Harding, the deputy commander of the NATO operation, said in the past, only forces loyal to Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi had used heavy armored vehicles.
> 
> Harding says the rebels and government troops are engaged in a series of advances and retreats between the eastern coastal towns of Brega and Ajdabiya, making it difficult for pilots to distinguish between them.
> 
> NATO jets attacked a rebel convoy between these two towns Thursday, killing at least five fighters and destroying or damaging a number of armored vehicles.
> 
> "It would appear that two of our strikes yesterday may have resulted in (rebel) deaths," Harding told reporters in Naples, where the alliance's operational center is located.
> 
> "I am not apologizing," he said. "The situation on the ground was and remains extremely fluid, and until yesterday we did not have information that (rebel) forces are using tanks."
> 
> *The strikes, including an attack earlier this week, provoked angry denunciations of NATO by the rebels.* At the same time, NATO officials have expressed frustration with the Libyan insurgents, who now view the alliance, whose mandate is limited to protecting civilians in Libya, as their proxy air force.
> 
> NATO's Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, however, expressed regret over the loss of life, saying alliance forces were doing everything possible to avoid harming civilians.
> 
> NATO last week took control over the international airstrikes that began March 19 as a U.S.-led mission. The airstrikes thwarted Gadhafi's efforts to crush the rebellion in the North African nation he has ruled for more than four decades, but the rebels remain outnumbered and outgunned and have had difficulty pushing into government-held territory even with air support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm.  I'll bet the denunciations stopped short of calling for an end to the airstrikes.
> 
> I'll also bet they didn't cover an admission that perhaps the rebels should keep NATO more informed.
> 
> This is where it starts to get tricky, but when NATO is tasked with taking out ground armor, why should anyone expect an apology when it does what it says on the tin?
Click to expand...


Well things like this were bound to happen, there is no war in the history of mankind where innocent people weren't killed.


----------



## tigerbob

High_Gravity said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO: Libya Rebel Deaths Don't Require Apology
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm.  I'll bet the denunciations stopped short of calling for an end to the airstrikes.
> 
> I'll also bet they didn't cover an admission that perhaps the rebels should keep NATO more informed.
> 
> This is where it starts to get tricky, but when NATO is tasked with taking out ground armor, why should anyone expect an apology when it does what it says on the tin?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well things like this were bound to happen, there is no war in the history of mankind where innocent people weren't killed.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't say those driving the tanks were innocents.  They were combatants.  But, with that distinction, I take your point.


----------



## High_Gravity

tigerbob said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm.  I'll bet the denunciations stopped short of calling for an end to the airstrikes.
> 
> I'll also bet they didn't cover an admission that perhaps the rebels should keep NATO more informed.
> 
> This is where it starts to get tricky, but when NATO is tasked with taking out ground armor, why should anyone expect an apology when it does what it says on the tin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well things like this were bound to happen, there is no war in the history of mankind where innocent people weren't killed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say those driving the tanks were innocents.  They were combatants.  But, with that distinction, I take your point.
Click to expand...


Well we were supposed to be on their side but than again I thought the rebels were lightly armed, where did they get tanks from?


----------



## tigerbob

High_Gravity said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well things like this were bound to happen, there is no war in the history of mankind where innocent people weren't killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say those driving the tanks were innocents.  They were combatants.  But, with that distinction, I take your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well we were supposed to be on their side but than again I thought the rebels were lightly armed, where did they get tanks from?
Click to expand...


I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## High_Gravity

Former Rep. Weldon Leaves Libya, Spurned By Gaddafi 








> NEW YORK -- Former Congressman Curt Weldon (R-Penn.), who arrived in Tripoli this week on a "private mission" to ask Muammar Gaddafi to step aside, left Libya today after failing to meet privately with the strongman.
> 
> The lawmaker, who has traveled to Libya more than any other Congressman and has established close ties to the Gaddafi family, expressed his disappointment in a statement sent to The Huffington Post by Weldon's daughter, Kristin Weldon Peri.
> 
> "I am disappointed that I did not get to sit down face to face with Col. Qadaffi as promised, but I may have been able to get something even more significant -- a path to a resolution of this conflict. Anytime you are asked to play a part in advancing the cause of peace there is a moral obligation to say yes."
> 
> Weldon, who says he was invited to Libya by Gaddafi's chief of staff, Dr. Bashir Saleh, said that his message to government officials he met in Tripoli "was in direct support of the state public positions of President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton."
> 
> Weldon said that Libyan Prime Minister Baghdadi Mamoudi gave him a sealed private letter to be hand-delivered to Clinton, which Weldon plans to do upon his return. The letter does not include any proposal for Gaddafi to step down although it is said to contain a list of concessions agreed to by the Libyan government and a call for a special envoy regarding further negotiations, reports WPIX.
> 
> Yesterday, Weldon denied reports that he is in Libya to push his own business interests and even to "get the United States to lift its arms embargo to Libya," reports Politico. Referring to reports that Defense Solutions, a company Weldon joined after leaving Congress, once proposed selling weapons to Libya under Gaddafi, Weldon said: &#8220;Never did I ever offer to sell any weapons to Libya,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I worked to try to normalize relations. I put together a comprehensive series of initiatives that could bring our people together in health care and education, in housing and environment and energy.&#8221;
> 
> The former Congressman also claims he worked with Rep. Elton Gallegly (R-Calif.) and Angelina Jolie's publicist to free Benghazi citizen Eman al-Obeidy, the woman who alleges she was brutally beaten and raped by Gaddafi's military forces, and to arrange for her to get back to Benghazi through Tunis and Cairo. She remains in Tripoli, according to most recent reports.
> 
> In the statement, Weldon says he also met with Saadi Gaddafi, the third son of the Libyan strongman, to urge the release of American journalist Clare Morgana Gillis, who writes for TheAtlantic.com, and three others. Also in custody are James Foley, a U.S. journalist with GlobalPost.com; Manu Brabo, a Spanish photographer; and Anton Hammerl, a South African photographer.
> 
> Weldon's flight to Libya was paid for by Houston attorney Brian Ettinger and former Bush aide Steve Payne, who accompanied him on the trip. Payne came along to assist in the effort because of his past friendship with Saadi Gaddafi, according to the statement.



Former Rep. Weldon Leaves Libya, Spurned By Gaddafi


----------



## tigerbob

> So, ask rebel supporters in Benghazi, amid the confusion, why did Nato pilots elect to launch rockets against targets they could not positively identify?
> 
> But Nato is caught between a rock and a hard place.
> 
> Only two days ago, rebel leaders were urging the alliance to significantly increase its air strikes, not only against Col Gaddafi's tanks and offensive weapons, but against his supply-lines and positions around towns like Brega, Ajdabiya and Misrata.
> 
> Sometimes, Nato and the sophisticated bombers flying high above the desert get it horribly wrong.
> 
> But it is a mistake for which rebel commanders in Benghazi and on the ground must share the blame.
> 
> BBC News - Libya: Rebels must share blame for Nato air strike


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Cease-Fire: South Africa Says Gaddafi Has Accepted African Union 'Road Map' 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  A delegation of African leaders said Sunday that their Libyan counterpart, Moammar Gadhafi, accepted their "road map" for a cease-fire with rebels, whom they will meet Monday. They met hours after NATO airstrikes battered Gadhafi's tanks, helping Libyan rebels push back government troops who had been advancing quickly toward the opposition's eastern stronghold.
> 
> The African Union's road map calls for an immediate cease-fire, cooperation in opening channels for humanitarian aid and starting a dialogue between the rebels and the government. AU officials, however, made no mention of any requirement for Gadhafi to pull his troops out of cities as rebels have demanded.
> 
> "We have completed our mission with the brother leader, and the brother leader's delegation has accepted the road map as presented by us," said South African President Jacob Zuma. He traveled to Tripoli with the heads of Mali and Mauritania to meet with Gadhafi, whose more than 40-year rule has been threatened by the uprising that began nearly two months ago.
> 
> "We will be proceeding tomorrow to meet the other party to talk to everybody and present a political solution," Zuma said, speaking at Gadhafi's private Tripoli compound, Bab al-Aziziya. He called on NATO to end airstrikes to "give the cease-fire a chance."
> 
> Gadhafi has ignored the cease-fire he announced after international airstrikes were authorized last month, and he rejects demands from the rebels, the U.S. and its European allies that he relinquish power immediately.
> 
> Ramtane Lamamra of Algeria, the head of the AU's Peace and Security Council, said the demand to give up power was brought up in Sunday's talks with the Libyan leader.
> 
> "There was some discussion on this but I cannot report on this. It has to remain confidential. It's up to the Libyan people to chose their leaders democratically," he told reporters in Tripoli.
> 
> Gadhafi enjoys substantial support from countries of the AU, an organization that he chaired two years ago and helped transform using Libya's oil wealth. So it is not clear whether rebels would accept the AU as a fair broker.
> 
> Though the AU has condemned attacks on civilians, last week its current leader, Equatorial Guinea President Teodoro Obiang Nguema, decried foreign intervention in Libya's nearly two-month-old uprising, which he declared to be an internal problem.



Libya Cease-Fire: South Africa Says Gaddafi Has Accepted African Union 'Road Map'


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Protest Against Ceasefire Negotiations 








> BENGHAZI, Libya  Libyan government forces battered the rebel-held city of Misrata with artillery fire on Monday despite an announcement by African mediators hours earlier that Moammar Gadhafi had accepted their cease-fire proposal. The shelling killed six people, one of them a 3-year-old girl, a doctor said.
> 
> The African Union delegation took its proposal to the rebels' eastern stronghold and was met with protests by crowds opposed to any peace until the country's longtime leader gives up power.
> 
> More than 1,000 people waved the pre-Gadhafi flags that have come to symbolize the rebel movement and chanted slogans against Gadhafi outside a Benghazi hotel. They said they had little faith in the visiting African Union mediators, most of them allies of Gadhafi who are preaching democracy for Libya but don't practice it at home.
> 
> The African negotiators met with Gadhafi late Sunday in the capital, Tripoli, and said he accepted their proposal for a cease-fire with the rebels that would also include a halt to the three-week-old international campaign of airstrikes. However, an Algerian representative of the delegation was vague on whether the proposal includes a demand for Gadhafi to give up power and would only say that the option was discussed.
> 
> The protesters in Benghazi and the opposition leadership based in the city are demanding that Gadhafi step down immediately.
> 
> "On the issue of Gadhafi and his sons, there is no negotiation," said Ahmed al-Adbor, a member of the opposition's transitional ruling council.
> 
> Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini supported that position.
> 
> "The sons and the family of Gadhafi cannot participate in the political future of Libya," he said Monday on France's Europe-1 radio. He said Gadhafi's departure would have to happen "in parallel" with any cease-fire.
> 
> He said he was lobbying allies to arm the rebels but that he was against expanding the international operation to include ground forces.



Libya Rebels Protest Against Ceasefire Negotiations


----------



## High_Gravity

U.S: Libya Role To Remain Limited Despite Setbacks 








> WASHINGTON  Despite rebel setbacks and an increasingly public rift with NATO allies, the U.S. will stick to its plan to remain in the back seat of the Libya air campaign, the Obama administration insisted Tuesday after three weeks of air missions that have failed to turn the tide against Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> France's defense minister declared that without full American participation, the West probably would not be able to stop attacks by Gadhafi loyalists on besieged rebel cities.
> 
> U.S. officials said they were comfortable with their role and had no plans to step up involvement, even as British and French officials said Washington's military might was needed to ensure the mission's success. The Americans said NATO could carry out the operation without a resumption of the heavy U.S. efforts that kicked it off last month.
> 
> "The president and this administration believes that NATO, and the coalition of which we remain a partner, is capable of fulfilling that mission of enforcing the no-fly zone, enforcing the arms embargo and providing civilian protection," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters.
> 
> "The U.S. has not abandoned this operation by any means," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said. "We still are offering support where we can. I don't think it's correct to say that there's somehow discord in the alliance."
> 
> The public complaints of Britain and France, however, contradicted that position, and U.S. officials contended privately that some in Europe appeared to be backing down on pledges to take the lead in the operation once the opening phase was over. The administration had not wanted to keep a primary role after that point and had made its participation in the NATO mission contingent on having only a supporting function afterward.
> 
> With the disagreement out in the open, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is expected to hear loud calls for the U.S. to resume heavier fighting when she travels to Germany for meetings of NATO foreign ministers on Thursday and Friday. Those talks are expected to be dominated by the situation in Libya, where rebels fighting forces loyal to Gadhafi are facing increasing challenges and appealing for additional assistance.
> 
> At the State Department, spokesman Toner said President Barack Obama had been clear from the beginning that the U.S. "role would diminish as NATO stepped up and took command and control of the operation."
> 
> He added, "The U.S., of course, as needed, would help out if requested in other capacities, in other capabilities, but really our role has receded in this mission."



U.S: Libya Role To Remain Limited Despite Setbacks


----------



## High_Gravity

NATO General: 'We're Doing A Great Job' In Libya 








> BRUSSELS  A NATO general sharply rejected French criticism Tuesday of the operation in Libya, saying the North Atlantic military alliance is performing well and protecting civilians effectively.
> 
> French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe had said NATO should be doing more to take out strongman Moammar Gadhafi's heavy weaponry that is targeting civilians in Libya.
> 
> Juppe said NATO's actions were "not enough" and insisted the alliance should be firing on the weapons being used by Gadhafi's forces to target civilians in the rebel-held city of Misrata. Juppe spoke on France-Info radio the day after Libyan rebels rejected a cease-fire proposal by African mediators because it did not insist that Gadhafi relinquish power.
> 
> "NATO has to play its role in full. NATO wanted to take the military command of the operations," Juppe said.
> 
> France's frustration with the stalemate on the ground, where Libyan rebels have struggled to capitalize on Western air attacks, has been echoed across Western capitals.
> 
> But at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Dutch Brig. Gen. Mark Van Uhm responded that the alliance was successfully enforcing an arms embargo against Libya, patrolling a no-fly zone and protecting civilians in the North African nation.
> 
> "I think with the assets we have, we're doing a great job," Van Uhm told reporters.
> 
> However, he repeatedly declined to comment on reports that some alliance members were limiting their planes to patrolling the no-fly zone and prohibiting them from dropping bombs, saying that was a matter on for governments to comment on.
> 
> France and Britain, meanwhile, sent out conflicting signals about the need to provide succor to Misrata, which has been subjected to weeks of bombardment by Gadhafi forces. Juppe said in his interview that the EU had to do more to get humanitarian aid to Misrata, but British Foreign Secretary William Hague told reporters that aid was still getting through.



NATO General: 'We're Doing A Great Job' In Libya


----------



## High_Gravity

NATO Ministers: No Gaddafi In Libya's Future 








> BERLIN  NATO nations stressed Thursday that their common aim in Libya is to bring an end to Moammar Gadhafi's regime, and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the world must increase its support for the Libyan opposition.
> 
> The effort to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya topped the agenda at a two-day meeting of foreign ministers from NATO's 28 member countries. Three weeks of airstrikes haven't routed Gadhafi's forces, causing tensions in the alliance.
> 
> France has said NATO isn't doing enough, and they and the British say Washington's military strength is needed to ensure the mission's success. The Obama administration insists, however, that the U.S. will stick to its plan to remain in a supporting role. The Pentagon also noted that Americans have flown 35 percent of all air missions over the last 10 days.
> 
> Clinton stressed that NATO members are "sharing the same goal, which is to see the end of the Gadhafi regime in Libya."
> 
> "For our part, the U.S. is committed to our shared mission," she told fellow ministers. "We will strongly support the coalition until our work is completed."
> 
> She also said "we must also intensify our political, diplomatic and economic mission to pressure and isolate Gadhafi and bring about his departure."
> 
> The world must "deepen our engagement with and increase our support for" the Libyan opposition, she added.
> 
> NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the alliance and its partners "are fully engaged in operations to safeguard the people of Libya, taking every measure possible to prevent Gadhafi's brutal and systematic attacks on his own people."
> 
> The alliance is keeping up "a high operational tempo," he added.



NATO Ministers: No Gaddafi In Libya's Future


----------



## High_Gravity

Western Nations Inch Closer To Having Troops On Libyan Soil 









> TRIPOLI, Libya  NATO military commanders conceded Tuesday they are unable to stop Moammar Gadhafi's shelling of the rebel-held city of Misrata, where hospitals are overwhelmed with casualties, while Britain said it will dispatch senior military officers to advise the opposition.
> 
> Misrata, Libya's third-largest city, has been under siege for nearly two months, with rebels holding on to seaside positions in the port area. In recent days, Libyan troops have pounded the city with shells and rockets.
> 
> Rebels and troops clashed Tuesday in central Misrata, and explosions and gunfire were heard. NATO strikes only targeted radars and air defenses, said Abdel-Salam, a resident who identified himself only by his given name for fear of retaliation. Hospitals are filled with the wounded, and 120 patients need to be evacuated, the World Health Organization said.
> 
> A United Nations' humanitarian agency was cool to an idea by the European Union to deploy an armed force to escort humanitarian aid in Libya, saying it was still able to use civilian assets on the ground. The proposal also drew a warning from Gadhafi's regime that this would be tantamount to a military operation.
> 
> The fighting in Libya has been deadlocked for the past month. Gadhafi is holding on in the west, while the rebels control the east. NATO airstrikes have kept Gadhafi loyalists in check, but the rebels, poorly trained with little military experience, have not been able to score military gains, either.
> 
> As the allies seek to break the battlefield stalemate, British Foreign Secretary William Hague said Britain will send a team of up to 20 senior military advisers to the rebel stronghold of Benghazi to help organize the haphazard opposition forces.
> 
> Hague said advisers would not supply weapons to the rebels or assist in their attacks on Gadhafi's forces but would work with British diplomats already cooperating with the National Transitional Council, the political wing of the rebel movement, which has been officially recognized by Italy, France and Qatar.
> 
> Britain has said it would not become involved in directly supplying weapons to Libya's rebels; it has already sent non-lethal support, such as 1,000 sets of body armor and 100 satellite phones.
> 
> The move seems to have been spurred by the continued deadlock after two months of fighting between Gadhafi's army and rebel forces. There has also been growing international concern over Misrata, where NATO has been unable to halt heavy shelling by Gadhafi's forces with airstrikes alone.



Western Nations Inch Closer To Having Troops On Libyan Soil


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Fighting: U.S. Warns Of 'Stalemate' As Misrata Battle Rages 








> (Reuters) - The top U.S. military officer said air strikes had hobbled Libyan forces but the conflict was moving into "stalemate" as Muammar Gaddafi's troops pressed on with their punishing siege of rebel Misrata.
> 
> Rebels welcomed U.S. plans to deploy unmanned aircraft, typically operated remotely from the United States. But it emerged that bad weather had forced the first two drones sent to Libya to turn back.
> 
> "It's certainly moving toward a stalemate," said Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. military's joint chiefs of staff, addressing U.S. troops during a visit to Baghdad.
> 
> "At the same time we've attrited somewhere between 30 and 40 percent of his main ground forces, his ground force capabilities. Those will continue to go away over time."
> 
> In Misrata, the only rebel-held major city in western Libya, rebels wrested control of a large downtown office building which had been a base for Gaddafi's snipers and other troops, after a furious two-week-long battle.
> 
> Shattered masonry, wrecked tanks and the incinerated corpse of a government soldier lay near the former insurance offices on Friday amid buildings pockmarked by gunfire.



Libya Fighting: U.S. Warns Of 'Stalemate' As Misrata Battle Rages


----------



## High_Gravity

McCain Praises Libyan Rebels In Benghazi 








> BENGHAZI, Libya  U.S. Sen. John McCain, one of the strongest proponents in Congress of the American military intervention in Libya, said Friday that Libyan rebels fighting Moammar Gadhafi's troops are his heroes.
> 
> The top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee made the remark after arriving in Benghazi, a city that has been the opposition capital in the rebel-held eastern Libya.
> 
> McCain said he was in Benghazi "to get an on the ground assessment of the situation" and planned to meet with the rebel National Transition Council, the de-facto government in the eastern half of the country, and members of the rebel military.
> 
> "They are my heroes," McCain said of the rebels as he walked out of a local hotel in Benghazi. He was traveling in an armored Mercedes jeep and had a security detail. A few Libyans waved American flags as his vehicle drove past.
> 
> McCain's visit is the highest yet by an American official to the rebel-held east and a boost to the anti-Gadhafi forces. Details of the trip were shrouded in secrecy due to heightened security in a country fiercely divided by the two-month-old anti-Gadhafi rebellion.
> 
> McCain's trip comes as Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced Thursday that President Barack Obama has authorized armed Predator drones against forces loyal to Gadhafi. It is the first time that drones will be used for airstrikes since the United States turned over control of the operation to NATO on April 4.
> 
> The rebels have complained that NATO airstrikes since then have largely been ineffective in stopping Gadhafi forces.
> 
> Invoking the humanitarian disasters in Rwanda and Bosnia in the 1990s, McCain pressed for U.S. military intervention in Libya in February, weeks before the U.N. Security Council authorized military action to protect civilians and impose a no-fly zone.
> 
> When Obama acted with limited congressional consultation, McCain  who was the 2008 Republican presidential contender running against Obama  defended the president, saying he couldn't wait for Congress to take even a few days to debate the use of force. If he had, "there would have been nothing left to save in Benghazi," the rebels' de-facto capital.



McCain Praises Libyan Rebels In Benghazi


----------



## High_Gravity

Why the West need not fear Libya's Islamic warriors








> Derna, Libya
> Clad in combat fatigues, Abdel Karim Hasadi relaxes in the lobby of Dernas opulent Pearl Hotel. The devout Muslim schoolteacher-turned-rebel commander is at ease with his emerging status as the leading figure in a city with a long and important history of Islamic piety.
> 
> Qaddafi claims Al Qaeda could overrun Libya. Could it? Arab revolutions will boost Al Qaeda, says radical US cleric Awlaki Qaddafi's credibility gap NATO commander: It is 'premature' to talk of Libya exit strategy But the rise of men like him is making Western officials uncomfortable. NATO Adm. James Stavridis warned last month of flickers of Al Qaeda in the uprising against Libyan dictator Muammar Qaddafi, and a 2008 US diplomatic cable called the city of Derna a wellspring for anti-American fighters in Iraq.
> 
> Indeed, a strong current of Islamic fundamentalism runs through this Mediterranean city in Libyas rebel-held east; many of its young men did go to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight US troops. And while Derna has a population of only 100,000, its influence extends throughout the country, giving the West pause about whether a post-Qaddafi Libya could be colored by Islamist fundamentalism.
> 
> 
> But many Libyans say this holy city will pose a threat only if Qaddafi is able to once again brutally suppress this uprising the way he did a smaller one in the late 1990s.
> 
> Mr. Hasadi dismisses the idea that Al Qaeda will somehow take root amid the Libyan unrest.
> 
> I thought badly of the US before, thats true, says Hasadi. But thats changing now  theyre standing with us against Qaddafi.
> 
> He says jitters about pious fighters from Derna seeking to impose on Libya the harsh brand of Islamist rule favored by Al Qaeda just play into Qaddafis hands.
> 
> Qaddafi likes to try to make us out to be Al Qaeda, to discredit us, says Hasadi. What do I want? Three basic rights: a constitution, freedom, justice. No more one-man rule. Is that what Al Qaeda wants? Really, having a beard and being a Muslim doesnt make you Al Qaeda.
> 
> Extremists or not?
> For the Libyan revolutions rank and file, Islam is a central cultural fact of life. Fighters call themselves holy warriors and expect their reward to be heaven if they fall while fighting to oust Qaddafi. They also generally agree, when asked, that a future Libyan constitution should not violate stipulations of Islamic law.
> 
> But that doesnt make them extremists, locals point out. In fact, it places them firmly in the mainstream of Libya and many other Arab countries.
> 
> Many in Libya do worry about Islamist militancy  but only if Qaddafi wins, not if he loses.
> 
> If Qaddafi holds power and stamps out all legitimate political opposition, then many of the young might find Al Qaeda or things like that attractive, says Abdel Kader Kadura, a law professor at Garyounis University in the de facto rebel capital of Benghazi. They will feel they have no choice, [other than] turning to that or giving up.



Why the West need not fear Libya's Islamic warriors - CSMonitor.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Compound Bombed By NATO 








> TRIPOLI (Reuters)  NATO forces flattened a building inside Muammar Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziyah compound early on Monday, in what a press official from Gaddafi's government said was an attempt on the Libyan leader's life.
> 
> Firefighters were still working to extinguish flames in part of the ruined building a few hours after the attack, when foreign journalists were brought to the scene in Tripoli.
> 
> The press official, who asked not to be identified, said 45 people were hurt in the strike, 15 of them seriously, and some were still missing. That could not be independently confirmed.
> 
> Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam said the Libyan government would not be cowed by such attacks.
> 
> "The bombing which targeted Muammar Gaddafi's office today... will only scare children. It's impossible that it will make us afraid or give up or raise the white flag," he was quoted as saying by the Jana state news agency.
> 
> "You, NATO, are waging a losing battle because you are backed by traitors and spies. History has proved that no state can rely on them to win."
> 
> Gaddafi's compound has been hit before, but NATO forces appear to have stepped up the pace of strikes in Tripoli in recent days. A target nearby, which the government called a car park but which appeared to cover a bunker, was hit two days ago.
> 
> The United States, Britain and France say they will not stop their air campaign over Libya until Gaddafi leaves power.
> 
> Washington has taken a backseat role in the air war since turning over command to NATO at the end of March but is under pressure to do more. Last week it sent Predator drone aircraft, which fired for the first time on Saturday.



Gaddafi Compound Bombed By NATO


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya rebels seek ways to keep their economy afloat








> Reporting from Benghazi, Libya The money's running out, the fuel stocks are depleted, the oil has largely stopped flowing and most other financial activity has ceased. But the official running the economy of the rebel-held swaths of Libya says he's not overly worried.
> 
> "A ship's on the way," Ali Tarhouni said Tuesday, citing the anticipated arrival of a fuel tanker with stocks for the main power plant in the de facto rebel capital, Benghazi. "That's why I woke up dancing this morning."
> 
> Almost three months after rebels expelled the forces of Moammar Kadafi, life goes on in "liberated" Libya with a state of mind that might be described as precarious elation.
> 
> The rebel-held zones are going broke, but there's no outward sense of panic, or regret. Here in eastern Libya, no one seems to pine for the more than 40-year reign of Brother Leader.
> 
> The scene, if anything, is the opposite of the anarchic tableau of looting, power outages and armed conflict that followed the U.S. invasion of Iraq and ouster of Saddam Hussein in 2003.
> 
> Cafes bustle with the caffeinated chatter of devotees of the frothy cappuccino that is a blessed legacy of 20th century Italian colonization. Kalashnikov rifles are the de rigueur male accessory, but the incessant gunfire is mostly celebratory.
> 
> The rebel tricolor and revolutionary trinkets emblazoned with the crescent moon and star sell briskly at sidewalk stands. Rush-hour streets are jammed with gridlocked traffic, but they lurch forward on subsidized, nostalgia-invoking gas prices of 40 cents a gallon.
> 
> Schools remain closed, many businesses are still shuttered and most people are out of work.
> 
> However, keen to fend off social unrest, the self-appointed government nominally running things is doling out salaries and stipends while working with volunteers and aid agencies to distribute food, medicine and other necessities from both foreign and domestic donors. And to date, power outages have been scattered and brief.
> 
> The shadow government even took the audacious step of declaring that, until Kadafi steps down, the national central bank and oil company would henceforth be based in Benghazi, not in the capital, Tripoli, Kadafi's stronghold and the country's most populous region.
> 
> But beneath the veneer of normalcy is a nation, or a rump nation, verging on economic collapse.
> 
> Available funds are sufficient only to keep the rebel zone afloat for three or four weeks "at the most," Tarhouni, the rebel finance minister, told reporters here Tuesday. Asked how much it costs to run things, he gave a vague daily range of 50 million to 100 million dinars  about $42 million to $84 million.
> 
> "It's a very hard question to answer," said Tarhouni, an economics professor at the University of Washington who returned after more than three decades in exile, one of dozens of Western-educated exiled technocrats who have returned to help the opposition cause. "It's the magnitude of the needs, and some of it is unknown, that makes answering that question very hard."
> 
> Opposition leaders are determined to transform what was a largely socialist economy into a free-market model. But there's no credit, imports and exports are stalled, and bank withdrawals have been limited to prevent a currency run. Few people are depositing cash in banks, feeding what economists call a "liquidity" crisis.
> 
> The imminent arrival of a tanker from Europe with fuel should avert the imposition of Baghdad-style blackouts, officials say. Still, Libya's wealth is oil, and crude is barely flowing from the nation's fields, some of which the rebels control.



Libya revolt: Libya rebels seek ways to keep their economy afloat - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Prosecutors seek Kadafi arrest warrant at International Criminal Court








> Reporting from Tripoli, Libya, and Baghdad Prosecutors asked judges of the International Criminal Court on Monday to issue arrest warrants for Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi, his son and brother-in-law, further isolating the autocratic ruler who has proved hard to dislodge despite NATO airstrikes and popular uprisings.
> 
> A legal brief presented to the judges accused the three of crimes against humanity in the killing of civilians as an effort to crush demonstrations they feared would unseat them, as happened with longtime rulers in neighboring Egypt and Tunisia.
> 
> The prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, argued that Kadafi planned to answer his critics with violence even before the first antigovernment crowds gathered in Libya in mid-February. Ocampo charted a timeline for Kadafi's actions and sketched out a division of responsibility among the Libyan ruler, his son Seif Islam and his brother-in-law Abdullah Sanoussi.
> 
> Judges at the court, based in The Hague, will take at least three weeks before ruling on the request, Moreno-Ocampo said in an interview. But his move was certain to please officials of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which is conducting a bombing campaign under a United Nations mandate to protect Libyan civilians. Over the weekend, a senior British military official warned that Kadafi might be able to hold on if NATO did not escalate the airstrikes.
> 
> "NATO doubtless will appreciate the ICC investigation and indictment of top Libyan leaders, including Kadafi," said David Scheffer, a former Clinton administration ambassador at large for war crimes issues, who now teaches international law at Northwestern University.
> 
> Scheffer said the move might increase pressure on Kadafi to think about finding refuge in a country that has not agreed to ICC jurisdiction.
> 
> The Obama administration has reportedly explored which countries not party to the ICC might harbor Kadafi. Former Liberian President Charles Taylor, now on trial at The Hague for war crimes, fled to Nigeria, helping end his country's civil war before he was eventually detained and sent to the court.
> 
> Some human rights groups have questioned why the court has not also opened an investigation of Syria's government, which has likewise cracked down on a protest movement.
> 
> Moreno-Ocampo called the evidence against Kadafi overwhelming and added that his investigation had been authorized by a U.N. Security Council resolution.
> 
> "People who are against the regime are suffering persecution today. That's the reality," Moreno-Ocampo said. "The way to protect civilians today is to have these [arrest] warrants."



Kadafi arrest warrant: Prosecutors ask international court to issue Kadafi arrest warrant - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Shell Western Mountains 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi shelled villages and towns to try to take control of the high ground in a western mountain range, while a U.N. official appealed for global assistance for some 2 million people displaced by fighting between Gadhafi's forces and rebels trying to oust him.
> 
> The United Nations humanitarian coordinator for Libya said some 1.6 million people inside the North African country need aid because fighting has disrupted basic services and depleted food and medical stocks.
> 
> Coordinator Panos Moumtzis, who is based in Geneva, an additional 500,000 who have crossed borders to Tunisia, Egypt and elsewhere in the region also need humanitarian assistance.
> 
> Moumtzis said he was asking international donors for $408 million to fund aid for Libya through September.
> 
> Gadhafi, who has ruled Libya for more than 40 years, has been using his military and militias to try to put down an uprising that began in February to try to remove him from power.
> 
> Also Wednesday, the International Criminal Court prosecutors warned Libyan officials they will be prosecuted if they attempt to cover up crimes by forces loyal to Gadhafi.
> 
> Prosecutors issued the warning in a letter to Libyan Foreign Minister Abdelati al-Obeidi.
> 
> The letter also formally informed him of Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo's request for arrest warrants for Gadhafi, his son Seif al-Islam Gadhafi, and intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanoussi. The judges will now have to decide whether to issue arrest warrants.
> 
> Moreno-Ocampo on Monday accused the three Monday of murder and persecution for allegedly ordering, planning and participating in attacks on civilians.



Libya Rebels Shell Western Mountains


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi's Wife And Daughter Are In Tunisia, Says Source 








> TUNIS/TRIPOLI, May 19 (Reuters) - The wife and daughter of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi crossed the border into Tunisia, a Tunisian security source said, but it was unclear whether they were on a diplomatic mission or seeking safe haven.
> 
> Arabic television stations quoted Tunisian officials as denying that the family members were in the country, saying that Safia Gaddafi and her daughter Aisha were on a U.N. sanctions list and would therefore not be allowed in.
> 
> However, the security source said the two women came to Tunisia with a Libyan delegation on May 14 and have been staying on the southern island of Djerba near the Libyan border.
> 
> It did not appear that they were travelling with Shokri Ghanem, Libya's top oil official, who is believed to have also crossed into Tunisia several days ago and defected.



Gaddafi's Wife And Daughter Are In Tunisia, Says Source


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Will 'Inevitably' Leave Power In Libya, Says Obama 








> WASHINGTON/TRIPOLI, May 20 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi will inevitably leave power, U.S. President Barack Obama said, as NATO intensified its weeks-long bombing of government targets and said on Friday it had sunk eight Libyan warships.
> 
> Obama was speaking in an address on the Middle East where a series of uprisings this year governments in Tunisia and Egypt, and inspired a three-month-old revolt in Libya that aims to overthrow Gaddafi.
> 
> "Time is working against Gaddafi. He does not have control over his country. The opposition has organised a legitimate and credible Interim Council," Obama said in Washington on Thursday.
> 
> "When Gaddafi inevitably leaves or is forced from power, decades of provocation will come to an end and the transition to a democratic Libya can proceed," he said, defending his decision to take military action against the Libyan leader's government.
> 
> His comments echoed NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen who said military and political pressure were weakening Gaddafi and would eventually topple him.
> 
> The Libyan leader remained defiant.
> 
> "Obama is still delusional," Libyan government spokesman Mussa Ibrahim said. "He believes the lies that his own government and media spread around the world ... It's not Obama who decides whether Muammar Gaddafi leaves Libya or not. It's the Libyan people."
> 
> Acting under a U.N. mandate, NATO allies including France, Britain and the United States are conducting air strikes that aim to stop Gaddafi using military force against civilians.
> 
> NATO aircraft sank the eight warships in overnight attacks on the ports of Tripoli, Al Khums and Sirte, the alliance said in a statement.
> 
> "Given the escalating use of naval assets, NATO had no choice but to take decisive action to protect the civilian population of Libya and NATO forces at sea," said Rear-Admiral Russell Harding, deputy commander of NATO's Libyan mission.
> 
> Libyan officials took journalists to Tripoli port where a small ship spewed smoke and flames, and cast doubt on whether boats targeted by NATO had been involved in fighting.
> 
> Mohammad Ahmad Rashed, general manager of Tripoli's port, said six boats had been hit by missiles.
> 
> The boats, five belonging to the coastguard and a larger naval vessel, had been undergoing maintenance since before the start of the fighting, he told reporters, adding that the port was still functional and capable of handling commercial traffic.



Gaddafi Will 'Inevitably' Leave Power In Libya, Says Obama


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's Ceasefire Offer Made By Gaddafi 








> TRIPOLI (Reuters) - The government of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has contacted foreign states offering an immediate ceasefire, but there was skepticism that the proposal could end the three-month-old conflict.
> 
> The ceasefire offer was unlikely to deflect Western leaders, meeting for a Group of Eight summit in the French seaside resort of Deauville, who say they are steadily moving closer to their goal of forcing Gaddafi from power.
> 
> Spain said it was one of several European governments to have received a proposal from Libyan Prime Minister Al-Baghdadi Ali Al-Mahmoudi for an immediate ceasefire.
> 
> "We've received the message and our position lies with the rest of Europe," a spokesman for the Spanish prime minister's office said.
> 
> "Everyone is anxious for there to be an agreement ... but certain steps have to be taken first and so far they haven't been taken," he said.
> 
> Foreign reporters in Tripoli were summoned to a news conference given by the Libyan prime minister, though there was no word on what he would be talking about.
> 
> Gaddafi's government has offered ceasefires before. Each time, these have been rejected by rebels who say they will accept nothing short of the Libyan leader's departure.
> 
> *MISRATA MORTAR ATTACK*
> 
> Despite the latest ceasefire offer, forces loyal to Gaddafi were on Thursday mounting their most intensive bombardment for days in the rebel-held city of Misrata.
> 
> A Reuters reporter in the city, which is about 200 km (130 miles) east of Tripoli, said he could hear mortars landing every few minutes in the western outskirts of Misrata.
> 
> He said there was a steady flow of ambulances going to and from the front line.
> 
> "The bombing started at about 7 a.m. (1 a.m. EDT). Today's mortar fire is quite fierce and sustained. The mortars are coming closer to the front line than they have for several days," said Abdellatif Sueihy, a 56-year-old rebel fighter.
> 
> Gaddafi's security forces cracked down ferociously when thousands of Libyans rebelled against his rule. NATO missiles and warplanes have been bombing targets in Libya for two months under a U.N. mandate to protect civilians from attack.
> 
> Rebels now control the east of the country, around their main stronghold of Benghazi, and pockets of land in the West.
> 
> But the conflict has reached stalemate on the ground, with the rebels unable to advance toward Tripoli and NATO powers -- wary of getting sucked into new conflicts after their experience in Iraq and Afghanistan -- refusing to put troops on the ground.



Libya's Ceasefire Offer Made By Gaddafi


----------



## High_Gravity

Russia Joins Western Chorus For Muammar Gaddafi To Go 








> (Reuters) - Russia believes Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi should quit and could help broker his departure, a senior Russian official said on Friday in an important boost to NATO powers bent on ending his 41-year rule.
> 
> It was a striking change in tone from Kremlin criticism of Western air strikes in Libya officially intended to protect civilians in a civil war but effectively taking the side of rebels seeking Gaddafi's removal and democratic change.
> 
> NATO said it was preparing to deploy attack helicopters over the Arab North African state for the first time to add to the pressure on Gaddafi's forces on the ground.
> 
> But his security forces demonstrated once again that they are far from a spent force, launching rocket attacks overnight on the rebel-held town of Zintan and fighting insurgents on the outskirts of the city of Misrata.
> 
> The Russian mediation offer was announced on the sidelines of the Group of Eight summit in Deauville, France, where Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was among the heads of state in attendance.
> 
> "Colonel Gaddafi has deprived himself of legitimacy with his actions. We should help him leave," Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said in Deauville.



Russia Joins Western Chorus For Muammar Gaddafi To Go


----------



## High_Gravity

Muammar Gaddafi: I Will Not Leave Libya 








> TRIPOLI (Reuters)  Muammar Gaddafi is emphatic he will not leave Libya, South African President Jacob Zuma said on Tuesday after talks with the Libyan leader that left prospects for a negotiated end to the conflict looking dim.
> 
> But new questions emerged over how long Gaddafi could hold on after a senior United Nations aid official said shortages of food and medicine in areas of Libya controlled by Gaddafi amounted to a "time bomb."
> 
> Within hours of Zuma's departure from Tripoli late on Monday, Libyan television reported that NATO aircraft had resumed attacks, striking what it called civilian and military sites in Tripoli and Tajoura, just east of the capital.
> 
> Zuma was in Tripoli to try to revive an African "roadmap" for ending the conflict, which started in February with an uprising against Gaddafi and has since turned into a war with thousands of people killed.
> 
> The talks produced no breakthrough, with Gaddafi's refusal to quit -- a condition the rebels and NATO have set as a pre-condition for any ceasefire -- still the sticking point.
> 
> "Col. Gaddafi called for an end to the bombings to enable a Libyan dialogue," Zuma's office said in a statement. "He emphasized that he was not prepared to leave his country, despite the difficulties."
> 
> Zuma also said Gaddafi's personal safety "is a concern" -- a reference to NATO strikes which have repeatedly hit the Libyan leader's Bab al-Aziziyah compound and other locations used by the Libyan leader and his family.
> 
> Now in its fourth month, Libya's conflict is deadlocked on the ground, with anti-Gaddafi rebels unable to break out of their strongholds and advance toward Tripoli, where Gaddafi appears to be firmly entrenched.
> 
> Rebels control the east of Libya around the city of Benghazi, Libya's third-biggest city Misrata, and a mountain range stretching from the town of Zintan, 150 km (95 miles) south of Tripoli, toward the border with Tunisia.
> 
> Western powers have said they expect Gaddafi will be forced out by a process of attrition as air strikes, defections from his entourage and shortages take their toll.
> 
> Panos Moumtzis, the U.N. humanitarian coordinator for Libya, told Reuters in Tripoli that some food stocks in areas under Gaddafi's control were likely to last only weeks.
> 
> "I don't think there's any famine, malnutrition. But the longer the conflict lasts the more the food stocks supplies are going to be depleted, and it's a matter of weeks before the country reaches a critical situation," Moumtzis said in an interview.
> 
> "The food and the medical supplies is a little bit like a time bomb. At the moment it's under control and it's ok. But if this goes on for quite some time, this will become a major issue," he said.



Muammar Gaddafi: I Will Not Leave Libya


----------



## idb

High_Gravity said:


> Muammar Gaddafi: I Will Not Leave Libya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI (Reuters)  Muammar Gaddafi is emphatic he will not leave Libya, South African President Jacob Zuma said on Tuesday after talks with the Libyan leader that left prospects for a negotiated end to the conflict looking dim.
> 
> But new questions emerged over how long Gaddafi could hold on after a senior United Nations aid official said shortages of food and medicine in areas of Libya controlled by Gaddafi amounted to a "time bomb."
> 
> Within hours of Zuma's departure from Tripoli late on Monday, Libyan television reported that NATO aircraft had resumed attacks, striking what it called civilian and military sites in Tripoli and Tajoura, just east of the capital.
> 
> Zuma was in Tripoli to try to revive an African "roadmap" for ending the conflict, which started in February with an uprising against Gaddafi and has since turned into a war with thousands of people killed.
> 
> The talks produced no breakthrough, with Gaddafi's refusal to quit -- a condition the rebels and NATO have set as a pre-condition for any ceasefire -- still the sticking point.
> 
> "Col. Gaddafi called for an end to the bombings to enable a Libyan dialogue," Zuma's office said in a statement. "He emphasized that he was not prepared to leave his country, despite the difficulties."
> 
> Zuma also said Gaddafi's personal safety "is a concern" -- a reference to NATO strikes which have repeatedly hit the Libyan leader's Bab al-Aziziyah compound and other locations used by the Libyan leader and his family.
> 
> Now in its fourth month, Libya's conflict is deadlocked on the ground, with anti-Gaddafi rebels unable to break out of their strongholds and advance toward Tripoli, where Gaddafi appears to be firmly entrenched.
> 
> Rebels control the east of Libya around the city of Benghazi, Libya's third-biggest city Misrata, and a mountain range stretching from the town of Zintan, 150 km (95 miles) south of Tripoli, toward the border with Tunisia.
> 
> Western powers have said they expect Gaddafi will be forced out by a process of attrition as air strikes, defections from his entourage and shortages take their toll.
> 
> Panos Moumtzis, the U.N. humanitarian coordinator for Libya, told Reuters in Tripoli that some food stocks in areas under Gaddafi's control were likely to last only weeks.
> 
> "I don't think there's any famine, malnutrition. But the longer the conflict lasts the more the food stocks supplies are going to be depleted, and it's a matter of weeks before the country reaches a critical situation," Moumtzis said in an interview.
> 
> "The food and the medical supplies is a little bit like a time bomb. At the moment it's under control and it's ok. But if this goes on for quite some time, this will become a major issue," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi: I Will Not Leave Libya
Click to expand...


Starving out the local population os hardly a satisfactory solution.
Why not be done with it and send in the SEALs?


----------



## High_Gravity

idb said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi: I Will Not Leave Libya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI (Reuters)  Muammar Gaddafi is emphatic he will not leave Libya, South African President Jacob Zuma said on Tuesday after talks with the Libyan leader that left prospects for a negotiated end to the conflict looking dim.
> 
> But new questions emerged over how long Gaddafi could hold on after a senior United Nations aid official said shortages of food and medicine in areas of Libya controlled by Gaddafi amounted to a "time bomb."
> 
> Within hours of Zuma's departure from Tripoli late on Monday, Libyan television reported that NATO aircraft had resumed attacks, striking what it called civilian and military sites in Tripoli and Tajoura, just east of the capital.
> 
> Zuma was in Tripoli to try to revive an African "roadmap" for ending the conflict, which started in February with an uprising against Gaddafi and has since turned into a war with thousands of people killed.
> 
> The talks produced no breakthrough, with Gaddafi's refusal to quit -- a condition the rebels and NATO have set as a pre-condition for any ceasefire -- still the sticking point.
> 
> "Col. Gaddafi called for an end to the bombings to enable a Libyan dialogue," Zuma's office said in a statement. "He emphasized that he was not prepared to leave his country, despite the difficulties."
> 
> Zuma also said Gaddafi's personal safety "is a concern" -- a reference to NATO strikes which have repeatedly hit the Libyan leader's Bab al-Aziziyah compound and other locations used by the Libyan leader and his family.
> 
> Now in its fourth month, Libya's conflict is deadlocked on the ground, with anti-Gaddafi rebels unable to break out of their strongholds and advance toward Tripoli, where Gaddafi appears to be firmly entrenched.
> 
> Rebels control the east of Libya around the city of Benghazi, Libya's third-biggest city Misrata, and a mountain range stretching from the town of Zintan, 150 km (95 miles) south of Tripoli, toward the border with Tunisia.
> 
> Western powers have said they expect Gaddafi will be forced out by a process of attrition as air strikes, defections from his entourage and shortages take their toll.
> 
> Panos Moumtzis, the U.N. humanitarian coordinator for Libya, told Reuters in Tripoli that some food stocks in areas under Gaddafi's control were likely to last only weeks.
> 
> "I don't think there's any famine, malnutrition. But the longer the conflict lasts the more the food stocks supplies are going to be depleted, and it's a matter of weeks before the country reaches a critical situation," Moumtzis said in an interview.
> 
> "The food and the medical supplies is a little bit like a time bomb. At the moment it's under control and it's ok. But if this goes on for quite some time, this will become a major issue," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi: I Will Not Leave Libya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Starving out the local population os hardly a satisfactory solution.
> Why not be done with it and send in the SEALs?
Click to expand...


The US is not going to send in the SEALS because Obama has already told us we are scaling back our efforts in this conflict, he doesn't seem interested to take the lead in this thing and just finish Ghaddafi off, he wants NATO to do it and it looks like they are incapable of doing anything more than a stalemate.


----------



## High_Gravity

Benghazi blast shows risk of post-Gaddafi unrest








> (Reuters) - An explosion in rebel-held Benghazi may be a harbinger of the kind of unrest Libya could face in the event of Muammar Gaddafi's ousting as diehard loyalists seek to stifle revolutionary rule at birth.
> 
> The blast on Wednesday damaged a hotel used by rebels and foreigners in Benghazi, wounding one person, and rebel authorities said they believed the explosion might be linked to Gaddafi agents still operating in the east.
> 
> Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, vice chairman of the rebel National Transitional Council, said the explosion outside Tibesti hotel was believed to have been caused by a hand grenade thrown in a "desperate attempt" by Gaddafi loyalists to sow terror.
> 
> More such attacks are likely if Gaddafi is toppled, analysts say, because the abundance of weaponry in a time of war would make them relatively easy for Gaddafi hardliners to stage.
> 
> Tunisia's revolution was followed by repeated disturbances blamed on supporters of ousted Tunisia ruler Zine el Abidine Ben Ali. Iraq is another example of the chaos that can follow a dictator's departure -- violence continued for years after Saddam Hussein was overthrown by the 2003 U.S-led invasion.
> 
> Analysts say two factors will be important in minimizing the likelihood of unrest: the speed with which security forces seen as legitimate are deployed to keep order, and the degree to which the new rulers are prepared to offer reconciliation to those who held positions of responsibility under Gaddafi.
> 
> *"HOTHEADS" MAY ATTEMPT SABOTAGE*
> 
> Rebel official Guma el-Gamaty said similar acts of violence could occur for a few weeks after the removal of Gaddafi, adding these were more likely in the capital Tripoli than in the rebel bastion of Benghazi, but precise predictions were impossible.
> 
> "It's possible it could go on for a few weeks, but it's hard to call. There might be hotheads, ideologues, sleeper cells who might to try to sabotage the new situation," he told Reuters. "A lot will depend on how quickly the police and security forces are recalled to service and deployed."
> 
> Now in its fourth month, the Libyan conflict is deadlocked, with rebels unable to break out of their strongholds and advance toward Tripoli, where Gaddafi appears firmly entrenched.
> 
> But Western governments say they believe they are gradually wearing down Gaddafi's ability to control the country, through a combination of diplomatic pressure and military action.
> 
> Gamaty said a post-Gaddafi government would not "make the mistake" of U.S. administrators in post-invasion Baghdad who disbanded the national army, a move widely believed to have swelled the ranks of insurgents who plunged Iraq into chaos.
> 
> "We will try to make the changeover as quickly as possible, and be as inclusive as possible. We already have a network in Tripoli of hundreds of activists who will create a local council in the aftermath of Gaddafi's departure," he said.
> 
> Gamaty said he expected that "a few hundred" people with blood on their hands would seek to flee, but others would be welcome to stay and build a new government.
> 
> Alex Warren, a director of FrontierMEA, a Middle East and North Africa research firm, said that any violence against the new government would not be as organised as the Iraq insurgency.



Benghazi blast shows risk of post-Gaddafi unrest | Reuters


----------



## High_Gravity

Iman al-Obeidi, Libya Woman Claiming Rape, Deported BackTo Libya 








> BENGHAZI  A U.N. official says a Libyan woman who claims she was gang-raped by Moammar Gadhafi's troops has been deported from Qatar, where she sought refuge.
> 
> Sybella Wilkes, spokeswoman for the United Nations' refugee organization, says Iman al-Obeidi is now in Benghazi.
> 
> Wilkes said Thursday that al-Obeidi was a recognized refugee and that there wasn't any "good reason" why she was deported from Doha, where she sought refuge last month.
> 
> Al-Obeidi made headlines in March when she rushed distraught into Tripoli's Rixos Hotel, seeking to speak to foreign reporters.
> 
> She claimed she was detained by a number of Gadhafi troops at a Tripoli checkpoint and raped.
> 
> As she told her story, al-Obeidi was tackled by government minders and dragged from the hotel.



Iman al-Obeidi, Libya Woman Claiming Rape, Deported BackTo Libya


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan Rebels Retake Town in West



> TRIPOLI, Libya  Following a series of NATO airstrikes, rebel forces retook the western mountain town of Yafran on Monday, breaking a month-long siege by forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, news agencies reported.
> 
> The western mountain region is the home territory for Libyas minority Berbers, who have chafed under the rule of Colonel Qaddafi and rose up against his forces when the uprising began. In recent months, loyalist forces have besieged several cities in the region, including the largest, Zintan, which rebel forces said was coming under attack on Monday, Reuters said.
> 
> NATO planes and attack helicopters battered targets around Tripoli early Monday and the oil port of Brega on Sunday, in an intensifying effort to break a stalemate in a conflict that is already in its fourth month, and in the third month of NATO airstrikes.
> 
> In Brussels, the secretary general of NATO, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said on Monday that he intended to use the occasion of a ministerial meeting on Wednesday to ask more member countries to contribute to the offensive against the Qaddafi regime, The Associated Press reported.
> 
> Obviously, some of those allies and partners carrying the heavy burden start to ask whether it would be possible to broaden the participation a bit, Mr. Rasmussen said at a news briefing. That is a point I will focus on at the defense ministers meeting.
> 
> But Britains foreign secretary, William Hague, returning Sunday from a brief visit to the rebel headquarters in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, hinted at concern in Western capitals about what might come after the toppling of Colonel Qaddafi. Mr. Hague said he had pressed the rebel leaders to make early progress on a more detailed plan for a post-Qaddafi government that would include sharing power with some of Colonel Qaddafis loyalists.
> 
> In particular, Mr. Hague said, the rebels should learn from Iraqs experience, in which a mass purge of former Saddam Hussein loyalists occurred under the American-backed program of de-Baathification, and shun any similar undertaking. The reference was to a policy that many analysts believe helped to propel years of insurgency in Iraq by stripping tens of thousands of officials of jobs.
> 
> According to news agency reports, crowds in Benghazis streets greeted Mr. Hague and Britains overseas aid minister, Andrew Mitchell, with shouts of Libya free! and Qaddafi, go away! as they met with leaders of the rebels Transitional National Council, headed by Mustafa Abdul Jalil, who was justice minister in Colonel Qaddafis government until the rebellion began in February. In London, Mr. Hague described the rebel leaders as genuine believers in democracy and the rule of law, but said that they should make more detailed post-Qaddafi plans.
> 
> He said Britain was encouraging them to put more flesh on their proposed transition  to lay out in more detail this coming week what would happen on the day that Qaddafi went, who would be running what, how would a new government be formed in Tripoli? Pressing the point about Qaddafi loyalists, he said the Benghazi leaders were learning from Iraq. No de-Baathification! he said, before adding, They now need to publicize that more effectively, to be able to convince members of the current regime that that is something that would work.
> 
> Mr. Hagues remarks, and others by the American defense secretary, Robert M. Gates, in Afghanistan on Sunday, pointed to complementary concerns among Western governments backing the Libyan rebellion, especially the United States, Britain and France. Those countries are providing the bulk of the aircraft and missiles for the NATO airstrikes, now at an average of nearly 50 a day.
> 
> One concern is that the campaign could drag on, exhausting fragile levels of political and popular support, including among restive lawmakers in Washington, London and Paris. The other derives from a possible contradictory outcome, in which the conflict ends abruptly, perhaps with the collapse of Colonel Qaddafis forces around Tripoli or his death.
> 
> That, some Western officials say, could expose the anti-Qaddafi forces as deeply riven by personal and political rivalries, unready for government and perhaps vulnerable to a fractious scramble for Colonel Qaddafis inheritance.
> 
> That would make the Western powers support for the rebels much riskier  with no way of knowing whether a future government would be any more democratic, respectful of human rights and amenable to a pro-Western policy than the quixotic Colonel Qaddafi, who has run Libya for 42 years.
> 
> Dealing with the first of these possible outcomes, Mr. Hague said in a BBC interview that it was impossible to foresee how long the anti-Qaddafi campaign might take. Were not going to set a deadline, he said, adding that it could be days or weeks or months.
> 
> A similar point was made in Afghanistan on Sunday by Mr. Gates, who told reporters that while it was only a matter of time before Colonel Qaddafi was deposed, I dont think anyone knows how long.
> 
> Mr. Gates also said there were increasing signs that Colonel Qaddafis grip on power was faltering, a view encouraged by a hastening roll call of high-level defectors, the weakening of the Qaddafi forces by the airstrikes, food and fuel shortages in Qaddafi-held cities, and scattered signs that Qaddafi opponents were becoming increasingly restive in some districts of Tripoli.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/world/africa/07libya.html?ref=africa


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi's Biggest Fans Include Taboo-Breaking Libyan Women 








> TRIPOLI, Libya (AP)  The young woman police officer swaggers through a crumbling Tripoli slum, her dark hair cut boyishly short, an empty gun holster and walkie-talkie hanging from her police belt. A tattooed man with a cigarette dangling from his lips shrinks away.
> 
> He doesn't want to mess with 25-year-old Nisrine Mansour.
> 
> A member of the regime's vice squad, her hero is Libyan ruler Moammar Gaddafi. His image is on her cell phone, his face emerging from rays of green  the iconic regime color. Her ring tone is a tinny pro-Gadhafi chant.
> 
> Gaddafi has bestowed many titles upon himself during his 42-years of iron-fisted rule over Libya, branding himself "King of Kings" in Africa and "Brother Leader of the Revolution" in Libya.
> 
> Women like Mansour give him another title: emancipator of women.
> 
> "Moammar Gaddafi is the one who opened the opportunities for us to advance. That's why we cling to him, that's why we love him," says Mansour. "He gave us complete freedom as a woman to enter the police force, work as engineers, pilots, judges, lawyers. Anything."
> 
> Among Gaddafi's most ardent loyalists are a core of Libyan women who have risen to high-profile roles in the police, military and government and credit Gaddafi with giving them greater career avenues than many of their sisters elsewhere in the Arab world. They consider any threat to his regime a threat to their own advancement.



Gaddafi's Biggest Fans Include Taboo-Breaking Libyan Women


----------



## High_Gravity

Muammar Gaddafi Exit Eyed By U.S., Allies In Abu Dhabi 








> ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates  Libya's main opposition group appealed Thursday for urgent infusions of cash from foreign nations to help support the rebellion against Moammar Gadhafi and said a meeting of countries backing NATO's military mission over the country would be a "total failure" if financial assistance was not forthcoming.
> 
> Italy promptly pledged nearly $600 million to the cause but the rebels were likely to be disappointed by the U.S. response announced by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who said Washington would boost its humanitarian aid to all Libyans by $26.5 million and continue to look at ways to assist the opposition.
> 
> "Gadhafi's days are numbered," Clinton said. "We are working with our international partners through the U.N. to plan for the inevitable: a post-Gadhafi Libya."
> 
> As senior officials from the more than 30-member coalition met in the United Arab Emirates to prepare for the post-Gadhafi era in Libya, the opposition Transitional National Council lamented that the international community still did not understand the needs of the Libyan people after months of violence.
> 
> But opposition Finance Minister Ali Tarhouni said outsiders have not matched verbal pledges of aid with enough money and urged nations to allow the council to use frozen Gadhafi regime assets as collateral for loans to help.
> 
> "Our people are dying," he told reporters on the sidelines of the conference in Abu Dhabi. "It's been almost four months now and nothing has materialized so far. Our message to our friends is that I hope that they walk the walk."
> 
> Italy said it would offer up to $600 million for "the day-to-day needs" of the council, encouraging other countries supporting NATO action against Gadhafi to provide similar financial support.
> 
> Italian Foreign Ministry spokesman Maurizio Massari said "timing was of the essence" and noted that the rebels "need help now."
> 
> The council has said it needs some $3 billion in funding to support itself for the next several months but has been appealing for diplomatic recognition and financial support with mixed results.



Muammar Gaddafi Exit Eyed By U.S., Allies In Abu Dhabi


----------



## High_Gravity

Qatar Seeks Major Voice In Libya's Uprising 









> BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters)  To get an idea of who might wield influence in post-civil war Libya, take a look at the flags flying in the rebel-held east of the country.
> 
> Outside the courthouse in Benghazi -- rebel headquarters and symbolic heart of the uprising against the 41-year rule of leader Muammar Gaddafi -- fly the flags of France, Great Britain, the United States, the European Union, NATO. There's one other flag, too: Qatar's.
> 
> "Qatar, really, it's time to convey our gratitude to them," Abdulla Shamia, rebel economy chief, told Reuters. "They really helped us a lot. It's a channel for transportation, for help, for everything."
> 
> It has a population of just 1.7 million people, but the wealthy Gulf monarchy has long sought a major voice in political affairs in the region. It has brokered peace talks in Sudan and Lebanon, owns the influential pan-Arab news network Al Jazeera, and recently won the right to host the 2022 soccer World Cup. Now the gas-rich nation has placed a big geopolitical bet in Libya, splashing out hundreds of millions of dollars on fuel, food and cash transfers for the rebels.
> 
> A representative from the Emir's palace declined to comment on what products Qatar has delivered to Libya, and on the ruling family's motivations behind its Libyan engagement.
> 
> It's certainly a gamble. If the rebels win, Qatar is likely to pick up energy deals and new influence in North Africa. But if they lose, Qatar's ambitions may further alienate it among its neighbors.
> 
> "I guess ever since the late 1990s, Qatar has been trying to break the Saudi-dominated status quo and carve out a niche position," said Saket Vemprala from the London-based Business Monitor International consultancy.
> 
> "At the moment I think it's more geopolitical, they want to broaden their (influence in the) region and become a more significant player ... And it certainly makes it easy for them to portray themselves as being on the right side of history," he said.
> 
> That sentiment is on display on a huge billboard in front of the courthouse. Over a picture of Qatari ruler Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani reads the promise: "Qatar, history will always remember your support for our cause."
> 
> "'WE ARE FINE'"
> 
> Being on the right side of history doesn't come cheap.
> 
> Qatar was the first Arab country to contribute planes to police the U.N.-backed no-fly zone over Libya. Simultaneously, hundreds of millions of dollars began to flow from the Qatari capital Doha to Benghazi from early March.
> 
> While international oil traders pondered whether to brave the bombs and international sanctions to start buying oil from the rebels, Qatar was quick to throw a lifeline and help eastern Libya meet its most pressing needs including fuel, food, medicines and telecommunications equipment.
> 
> Qatar's foreign ministry has confirmed that it has shipped four tankers full of gasoline, diesel and other refined fuels to Benghazi, which specialists estimate is enough to feed the large Benghazi power plant for one or two weeks.
> 
> But people on the ground in Benghazi say they believe Qatar is behind much of the continuing delivery of fuel supplies, as well as food, medicine and cash payments. Given that oil production in the east has stalled and the economy generates no cash, they ask, where else are all the supplies coming from?



Qatar Seeks Major Voice In Libya's Uprising


----------



## Ropey

I believe that Democracy is a hard fought anarchist fight that must be won from inside. Not from begging it to be enforced from without. Not one Arab country in the Middle East has been created by Arabs. They have been created by outgoing and incoming Empiric thrusts. 

These people need to stop inbreeding. They are already so mentally weak and emotionally unstable through the ~1,400 years of inbreeding that I personally see that only war can stop them.

Some think you can just give a lot of money and people will become civilized and accept Democracy. If that were the case, Saudi Arabia would be civilized and a Democracy rather than one of the MOST oppressive Muslim regimes in the world. 

They have lots of their own money and don't even allow women to drive. 



> *The Dilemma of Saudi Women Drivers: Islamic Sharia Law and Gender Equality*






The Dilemma of Saudi Women Drivers: Islamic Sharia Law and Gender Equality


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> I believe that Democracy is a hard fought anarchist fight that must be won from inside. Not from begging it to be enforced from without. Not one Arab country in the Middle East has been created by Arabs. They have been created by outgoing and incoming Empiric thrusts.
> 
> These people need to stop inbreeding. They are already so mentally weak and emotionally unstable through the ~1,400 years of inbreeding that I personally see that only war can stop them.
> 
> Some think you can just give a lot of money and people will become civilized and accept Democracy. If that were the case, Saudi Arabia would be civilized and a Democracy rather than one of the MOST oppressive Muslim regimes in the world.
> 
> They have lots of their own money and don't even allow women to drive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The Dilemma of Saudi Women Drivers: Islamic Sharia Law and Gender Equality*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Dilemma of Saudi Women Drivers: Islamic Sharia Law and Gender Equality
Click to expand...


You are absolutely right, as we are seeing in Afghanistan giving a country billions of dollars a year does then more harm than good if they don't know how to manage it correctly. Throwing billions of dollars at an uncivilized people will not fix their problems, it may actually make things worse.


----------



## High_Gravity

Clinton: Gaddafi Associates Seeking To Negotiate 








> ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates -- U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says she is aware of "numerous and continuing" overtures by people close to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi (MOO'-ah-mar gah-DAH'-fee) to negotiate his departure from power.
> 
> Speaking to reporters after an international conference on Libya in the United Arab Emirates, Clinton said proposals from "people close to Gadhafi" presented to unspecified countries included the "potential for a transition." But she said she could not predict if they would be accepted. She did, however, stress that she believed Gadhafi's decades-long rule is nearing an end.
> 
> Her comments came in response to a question about whether she could confirm that Gadhafi loyalists were seeking a way for him to go into exile in an African country.



Clinton: Gaddafi Associates Seeking To Negotiate


----------



## LAfrique

High_Gravity said:


> Muammar Gaddafi Exit Eyed By U.S., Allies In Abu Dhabi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates  Libya's main opposition group appealed Thursday for urgent infusions of cash from foreign nations to help support the rebellion against Moammar Gadhafi and said a meeting of countries backing NATO's military mission over the country would be a "total failure" if financial assistance was not forthcoming.
> 
> Italy promptly pledged nearly $600 million to the cause but the rebels were likely to be disappointed by the U.S. response announced by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who said Washington would boost its humanitarian aid to all Libyans by $26.5 million and continue to look at ways to assist the opposition.
> 
> "Gadhafi's days are numbered," Clinton said. "We are working with our international partners through the U.N. to plan for the inevitable: a post-Gadhafi Libya."
> 
> As senior officials from the more than 30-member coalition met in the United Arab Emirates to prepare for the post-Gadhafi era in Libya, the opposition Transitional National Council lamented that the international community still did not understand the needs of the Libyan people after months of violence.
> 
> But opposition Finance Minister Ali Tarhouni said outsiders have not matched verbal pledges of aid with enough money and urged nations to allow the council to use frozen Gadhafi regime assets as collateral for loans to help.
> 
> "Our people are dying," he told reporters on the sidelines of the conference in Abu Dhabi. "It's been almost four months now and nothing has materialized so far. Our message to our friends is that I hope that they walk the walk."
> 
> Italy said it would offer up to $600 million for "the day-to-day needs" of the council, encouraging other countries supporting NATO action against Gadhafi to provide similar financial support.
> 
> Italian Foreign Ministry spokesman Maurizio Massari said "timing was of the essence" and noted that the rebels "need help now."
> 
> The council has said it needs some $3 billion in funding to support itself for the next several months but has been appealing for diplomatic recognition and financial support with mixed results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi Exit Eyed By U.S., Allies In Abu Dhabi
Click to expand...



African nations and other developing nations would do better were the US and its allies to leave them alone. Just months ago, the US not only "eyed" the departure of Ivorian Laurent Gbagbo, but offered Gbagbo a teaching post at US university in exchange for his resignation - Reform School - By Elizabeth Dickinson | Foreign Policy


----------



## High_Gravity

Clinton Presses African Leaders to Abandon Qaddafi



> ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia  Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton bluntly warned African leaders on Monday that authoritarian governments ruled by aging depots were no longer acceptable, saying that those who refused democratic reforms would find themselves on the wrong side of history.
> 
> She also urged the African Union to end its lingering relations with Libyas leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. American officials have been deeply frustrated by the unions efforts to mediate on behalf of Colonel Qaddafi, who for decades lavished support on African leaders  many of them autocratic  and led the union itself two years ago.
> 
> Too many people in Africa still live under long-standing rulers, men who care too much about the longevity of their reign and too little about the legacy that should be built for their countries future, Mrs. Clinton said in a speech that echoed one in mid-January, just before the president of Tunisia was ousted in the first salvo in what became a wave of regional revolts. Then, she warned Arab leaders that their governments risked sinking into the sand if they did not change.
> 
> The status quo is broken, she said Monday. The old ways of governing are no longer acceptable. It is time for leaders to leave with accountability, treat their people with dignity, respect their rights and deliver economic opportunity. And if they will not, then it is time for them to go.
> 
> Mrs. Clinton did not specify any countries or leaders, but the United States has long opposed some of the most repressive governments, from Zimbabwe to Sudan. Representatives of the unions members  including Libyas  attended her speech in the conference hall of its headquarters here in Ethiopias capital. She was greeted politely and even warmly at moments.
> 
> One of her most biting comments about leaders attitudes  Some even claim to believe in democracy defined as one election, one time  prompted laughter.
> 
> Mrs. Clinton, on a five-day, three-country visit focused on trade and economic assistance to Africa, became the first secretary of state to address a session of the African Union, the regional organization that was created in 2002 and represents 53 of 54 nations on the continent. (The exception is Morocco.)
> 
> In the case of Libya, Mrs. Clinton acknowledged that many members  though not all  disagreed with the military intervention in Libya led by the United States and NATO, but she urged all members to call for a genuine cease-fire and the departure of Colonel Qaddafi. She urged them to suspend operations of Libyas embassies, expel diplomats loyal to Colonel Qaddafi, and open channels to the Libyan rebels.
> 
> Your words and your actions could make the difference in bringing this situation to finally close, she said.
> 
> In her remarks, Mrs. Clinton also called for a peaceful resolution of the fighting that has flared in Sudan ahead of the planned declaration of independence by South Sudan on July 9. The violence  in the disputed territory of Abyei and increasingly in other regions along what will be the new be the new border  has threatened to unravel a peaceful separation that the Obama administration worked feverishly to ensure over the last year. Mrs. Clinton called the recent fight "deeply troubling."
> 
> Talks aimed at resolving the dispute over Abyei took place in Addis Ababa over the last two days with Sudans president, Omar al-Bashir, in attendance. Mr. Bashirs presence here raised the potentially awkward possibility that Mrs. Clinton might encounter a leader indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes in another part of Sudan, Darfur. Mr. Bashir, however, left town before she arrived and did not attend the meetings at the African Union headquarters. Mrs. Clinton did meet with representatives of both the north and south at her hotel in an effort to press for an agreement.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/world/africa/14diplomacy.html?_r=1&ref=world


----------



## High_Gravity

Sassi Garada, Gaddafi Insider, Reportedly Defects 








> LONDON  Another member of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi's regime has defected and fled the country, two Libyan analysts in London said Monday, as fighting continued between government troops and rebel forces.
> 
> Sassi Garada, one of the first men to join Gadhafi when he took power more than 40 years ago, left Libya through Tunisia, according to Noman Benotman, a Libyan analyst in London who was in contact with his friends and family. Guma el-Gamaty, U.K. organizer for Libya's interim council, also confirmed the defection.
> 
> There were initial reports that Garada fled to Britain, where he has several family members, but Benotman said Garada was in Switzerland.
> 
> British officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss immigration and security matters, said they could not confirm whether Garada was in the U.K. Swiss Foreign ministry spokeswoman Carole Waelti told the AP the government was "not aware of the possible presence of Mr. Garada in Switzerland."
> 
> The Libyan U.N. mission in Geneva  which sides with the regime's opponents  said Monday it had no immediate knowledge of any such defection, but would make further inquiries. In February, diplomats at the mission publicly renounced Gadhafi, swelling the rebellion of Libyan officials around the globe.
> 
> A longtime supporter of Gadhafi, Garada reportedly passed up several military promotions over the years to stay out of the limelight and serve Gadhafi, according to Benotman, who works as an analyst for the London-based Quilliam Foundation.
> 
> Garada is also from Libya's Berber minority, which has often fought with the Arab majority to have their language and customs protected. Many of the Berbers also occupy the Western mountains of Libya, where Garada had been in charge of trying to neutralize tensions, el-Gamaty said.
> 
> It is not known why Garada defected or when, but he is one in a growing list of senior officials who have fled the country, suggesting Gadhafi may be losing his grip on power.
> 
> Last month, Shukri Ghanem, the Libyan oil minister and head of the National Oil Co., crossed into neighboring Tunisia.



Sassi Garada, Gaddafi Insider, Reportedly Defects


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi-NATO Talks Possible: Kirsan Ilyumzhinovm 








> MOSCOW  The Russian head of the World Chess Federation said Tuesday after playing chess with Moammar Gadhafi that the Libyan leader is open to talks with NATO and the country's rebels.
> 
> Kirsan Ilyumzhinov said Gadhafi had told him that he was ready to immediately start peace talks once NATO stops air raids, but shrugged off international demands for him to leave.
> 
> Russia has joined the West in urging the Libyan leader to step down, and Kremlin foreign affairs advisor Sergei Prikhodko said Ilyumzhinov had conveyed Moscow's official position during his meeting Sunday with Gadhafi in Tripoli.
> 
> IIyumzhinov said at a news conference that Gadhafi replied he had no official job to resign from and that he has no intention of leaving the country.
> 
> "I will not go anywhere, my relatives died here and I will also die in that land," Ilyumzhinov quoted the Libyan leader as telling him during the meeting.
> 
> Ilyumzhinov's office released a tape in which he was playing chess with the Libyan leader, clad in black and brown and wearing sunglasses.
> 
> Allowing Gadhafi to play white, Ilyumzhinov seemed to be showing him how to begin the game and then called it a draw.
> 
> Ilyumzhinov, who formerly headed Russia's province of Kalmykia, is noted for eccentric behavior including claims he was visited by a UFO.
> 
> Gadhafi had not been seen since a brief appearance on state television in late May. He has been in hiding since NATO strikes in April struck one his homes. Libyan officials said one of his sons, Saif al-Arab, and three of his grandchildren were killed in that strike.



Gaddafi-NATO Talks Possible: Kirsan Ilyumzhinovm


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan Rebels Recognized By Canadian Government 








> OTTAWA, Ontario -- Canada says it will formally recognize the Libyan rebels as the legitimate government of the country.
> 
> Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird told Parliament Tuesday the rebels are the true representatives of the Libyan people.
> 
> The minister's announcement came as Parliament opened a day-long debate on extending Canada's military commitment to the NATO-led mission in Libya. Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government plans to extend an initial three-month commitment to the end of September.
> 
> Baird says the recognition is part of an enhanced effort to work with the National Transitional Council of Libya, the key rebel organization fighting dictator Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> Canada joins France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates in formally recognizing the council.



Libyan Rebels Recognized By Canadian Government


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Elections Offer Extended: Saif Al-Islam 








> ROME (Reuters)  Muammar Gaddafi would agree to internationally supervised elections on condition there is no vote-rigging, one of the Libyan leader's sons told an Italian newspaper in an interview published on Thursday.
> 
> "They could be held within three months. At the maximum by the end of the year, and the guarantee of transparency could be the presence of international observers," Saif al-Islam told the daily Corriere della Sera.
> 
> He said the elections could be supervised by bodies including the European Union, the African Union, the United Nations or even NATO, which has been bombing Gaddafi's forces.
> 
> "The important thing is that the election should be clean, that there should be no suspicion of vote-rigging," he said.
> 
> "I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of Libyans stands with my father and sees the rebels as fanatical Islamist fundamentalists, terrorists stirred up from abroad, mercenaries on the orders of (French President Nicolas) Sarkozy."
> 
> He said his father would be ready to step aside if he lost the election but would not go into exile.
> 
> "He will never leave Libya. He was born here and intends to die and be buried here, alongside those he holds dear."
> 
> Saif al-Islam's comments came as fighting continued between rebels and troops loyal to Gaddafi without any clear sign of a breakthrough in the conflict.



Gaddafi Elections Offer Extended: Saif Al-Islam


----------



## High_Gravity

World leaders look for way out of Libya








> Reporting from Tripoli, Libya, and Washington With questions growing about NATO's air war and international arrest warrants threatening to close off a diplomatic solution, new players are joining the search for a way out of the Libya conflict. But the efforts have stumbled so far on Moammar Kadafi's insistence that he remain in the country.
> 
> Russia and Turkey have recently added their voices to Western demands that Kadafi leave. Libyan officials long have declared that a nonstarter, and diplomats say it is unlikely they can change Kadafi's mind.
> 
> However, they hope to convince enough of the leader's children and closest associates that leaving Libya becomes the only realistic option.
> 
> Adding urgency to the diplomatic push are concerns about how long NATO can sustain its military campaign and a pending ruling by the International Criminal Court on prosecutors' request for arrest warrants for Kadafi, his son and brother-in-law.
> 
> Issuance of arrest warrants could forestall a solution in which Kadafi goes into exile. Once warrants are issued, other countries that have agreed to ICC jurisdiction would be required to arrest him.
> 
> "To insist that he both leave the country and face trial in the International Criminal Court is virtually to ensure that he will stay in Libya to the bitter end and go down fighting," the International Crisis Group, a nonprofit organization that seeks to resolve global conflicts, said in a recent report on Libya.
> 
> Britain's top naval commander, Adm. Mark Stanhope, said Monday that it could be difficult to continue the campaign in Libya past September. "Beyond that, we might have to request the government to make some challenging decisions about priorities," he said.
> 
> The overall head of the British military, Gen. David Richards, contradicted him. But the admiral's remarks reinforced criticism last week by outgoing Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates of NATO allies' faltering commitment to the Libya campaign.
> 
> Fewer than half of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's 28 member nations are engaged in the conflict, Gates said, and after only 11 weeks some are beginning to run short of munitions.
> 
> Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Friday cited "numerous and continuous discussions" but acknowledged that there was not yet a clear path to forcing Kadafi to give up power.
> 
> Leading the latest effort to persuade Kadafi to go is longtime ally Russia.
> 
> Russia's Africa envoy, Mikhail Margelov, has suggested that the ICC case against Kadafi, his son Seif Islam and the regime intelligence chief could be deferred if the Libyan leader agreed to leave soon.
> 
> Margelov, who visited the rebel stronghold Benghazi last week, told Russian media that he planned to visit Tripoli on Thursday and stress to Libya's leader that time was running out.



Libya: World leaders look for way out of Libya - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: NATO Airstrike Kills 15 West of Tripoli








> SURMAN, Libya   Libya's government said a NATO airstrike early Monday on a large family compound belonging to a close associate of Muammar Qaddafi has killed at least 15 people, including three children, west of Tripoli.
> 
> A NATO official in Naples, Italy, said the alliance has not conducted any strikes in that area in the past 24 hours. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of NATO regulations.
> 
> Qaddafi's regime has repeatedly accused NATO of targeting civilians in an attempt to rally support against the alliance's intervention in the country's civil war. NATO has repeatedly insisted it tries to avoid killing civilians.
> 
> Libyan government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said alliance bombs struck the compound belonging to Khoweildi al-Hamidi outside the city of Surman, some 40 miles west of Tripoli, around 4 a.m. local time Monday.
> 
> Ibrahim said al-Hamidi, a former military officer who took part in the 1969 coup that brought Qaddafi to power, escaped unharmed but that three children were among those killed, two of them al-Hamidi's grandchildren.
> 
> "They (NATO) are targeting civilians ... the logic is intimidation," Ibrahim said. "They want Libyans to give up the fight ... they want to break our spirit."
> 
> Foreign journalists based in the Libyan capital were taken by government officials to the walled compound, where the main two-story buildings had been blasted to rubble. A pair of massive craters could be seen in the dusty ground, and rescue service workers with sniffer dogs were searching the rubble in search of people. The smell of smoke was still thick in the air.
> 
> Journalists were later taken to a hospital in the nearby city of Sabratha, where medical workers showed them the bodies of at least 10 people, including those of two children, said to be killed in the strike. Some of the bodies were charred beyond recognition, while others had been half blown apart.
> 
> NATO, which has a mandate to protect Libyan civilians, has rejected the Libyan government's allegations that it targets civilians. However, mistakes have occurred.




Read more: Libya: NATO Airstrike Kills 15 West of Tripoli - FoxNews.com


----------



## High_Gravity

All Confused On the Western Front: NATO and Libya's Rebels Don't Jibe








> "Where is NATO?" the rebel asks, with no small amount of frustration. It is just after midnight, Friday, June 17, and he is holed up in Dafniyah, a hamlet west of the revolutionary enclave of Misratah on the coast of western Libya. Like all the fighters in the dry fields outside the rebel city, Ashrf Ali, 30, had anticipated that the military alliance would launch a bombing campaign in the early hours of the morning last Friday, hitting Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's troops to allow the rebels to push further inland. Instead, NATO planes have merely buzzed the sky in routine reconnaissance and patrol sorties, leaving Ali and his fellow fighters unable to advance.
> 
> Throughout parts of Libya under rebel control, people are frustrated with NATO. Between its slow pace of attacks and the errant strikes that have killed rebel fighters, the speculation now is that the Western coalition lacks the resources and resolve to help the rebels topple Gaddafi.
> 
> The chief problem plaguing both NATO and the rebels is lack of coordination. Rebel leaders complain that they must jump through hoops to reach NATO officials. Field commanders requesting air strikes and relaying troop movements have no direct communication with the alliance's military command in the region, much less headquarters in Brussels, which must issue the ultimate orders. Instead, they call their senior officers via satellite phone at a rebel command center in Benghazi. The officers then relay the information to NATO officials in the same building, who only then contact Brussels. The byzantine process squanders valuable time in a war where seconds are precious.
> 
> Unable to order airstrikes, rebels in the field are forced to wait for unannounced NATO bombings before they can advance. "I never know what to tell my fighters," says Sa'adun Zuwayhli, 29, a field commander in Dafniyah, which is how far the rebels have advanced out of Misratah in their excruciatingly slow advance toward Gaddafi's capital Tripoli. "Advance, retreat, hold  they are all guesses until we see the bombs from NATO," he laments.



Read more: All Confused On the Western Front: NATO and Libya's Rebels Don't Jibe - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

McCain Chides House Republicans For Threats To Libya Funding 








> WASHINGTON -- Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) knocked leaders of his own party Tuesday for lining up votes to defund U.S. military operations in Libya and countered their efforts with his own measure authorizing a continued U.S. role.
> 
> McCain, the ranking member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said the House GOP leaders' plan to hold votes this week to challenge President Barack Obama on Libya smacks of hypocrisy since Republicans criticized Democrats for similarly trying to tie the hands of President George W. Bush over the Iraq War.
> 
> Democrats "savaged" Bush and tried "everything in their power to tie his hands and pull America out of that conflict," McCain said during remarks on the Senate floor. We were right to condemn this behavior then, and we would be wrong to practice it now ourselves, simply because a leader of the opposite party occupies the White House. Someday, a Republican will again occupy the White House, and that President may need to commit U.S. armed forces to hostilities.
> 
> The Arizona Republican said it is only a matter of time until Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi falls and questioned whether this was an appropriate time for Congress to signal to the world "that our heart is not in this ... that we have neither the will nor the capacity to see this mission through."
> 
> These are questions that every member of Congress needs to think about long and hard, but especially my Republican colleagues," McCain said. GOP lawmakers feeling indifferent about voting on the matter need to think seriously about how such a vote could come back to haunt a future President when the shoe is on the other foot.
> 
> Obama has been under fire from both parties for authorizing U.S. military action in Libya without congressional approval -- a move that some argue violates the Constitution. The White House maintains it does not need such approval given that limited U.S. air attacks do not constitute the kind of hostilities defined by the War Powers Act. Many on Capitol Hill actually support a U.S. role in the NATO-led operation in Libya but are angry that Obama did not seek congressional authorization.
> 
> McCains warning to House Republicans came as he and Senate Foreign Relations Chairman John Kerry (D-Mass.) introduced their own bipartisan joint resolution that authorizes limited U.S. forces in Libya for a fixed period of time -- essentially, what Obama is already doing. Unlike a regular resolution, a joint resolution carries the force of law, so passage of their measure would send a stronger message of support from Congress on what the White House is orchestrating in Libya.


McCain Chides House Republicans For Threats To Libya Funding


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya rebels, Kadafi regime hold indirect talks



> Reporting from Beirut Indirect talks on the future of Libya have been taking place between representatives of Moammar Kadafi's government and rebels based in the eastern city of Benghazi, a spokesman for the opposition said Wednesday.
> 
> Mahmoud Shammam of the Transitional National Council said the private mediation efforts, which have yet to bear fruit, have been held in South Africa and France through intermediaries. He said the opposition has held firm that Kadafi and his family be excluded from any future government, but added it was possible the dictator could live out his last years in Libya at an isolated location.
> 
> "We are engaging in discussion with some people who have contact with people from the regime," Shammam told The Times during a brief interview on the sidelines of a talk he delivered in the Lebanese capital. "We are contacting them on the mechanism of the departure of Kadafi. We don't negotiate the future of Libya."
> 
> United Nations officials in late May announced attempts to organize indirect talks between the rebels and Kadafi, and Kadafi's spokespeople have said talks have been ongoing.
> 
> The oil-rich, North African state has been torn asunder by a four-month uprising against Kadafi's four-decade rule. Rebels backed by an increasingly controversial NATO-led bombing campaign hold sway in the country's east; in the third-largest city, Misurata; and in the mountains southwest of the capital, Tripoli, near the country's border with Tunisia.
> 
> Recently the cash-strapped rebels have been making the rounds of international capitals, hoping to gain access to Kadafi's frozen assets or to win over international financiers to fund the armed rebellion and pay bills. "We have not received a cent from the international community," other than in-kind donations of food and weapons, Shammam said at a talk organized by the Carnegie Middle East Center, a branch of the Washington-based Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, on whose advisory board he serves.
> 
> He also pledged a commitment to a democratic Libya once Kadafi is ousted and promised that all 32 transitional authority executive committee members, including him, would recuse themselves from political life for four years in any post-Kadafi government.
> 
> Shammam said the authority had pledged to uphold civil liberties and the rights of women. He spoke of a democratic flowering in the rebel-controlled east, where he said the number of newspapers had jumped from four to 84. "We believe in civil society," he said.
> 
> Shammam downplayed accusations made by Kadafi and acknowledged by U.S. officials that some members of Al Qaeda may have infiltrated the rebel east. Islamists, including extremist groups such as the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which fought alongside Osama bin Laden, would be permitted to take part in politics but only if they abide by democratic ground rules, Shammam said.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-rebels-envoy-20110623,0,3507935.story


----------



## High_Gravity

Sarkozy Rebuffs Robert Gates' Libya War Claims, Insists Europe Is 'Doing The Work' 








> BRUSSELS/TRIPOLI (Reuters)  French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Friday rebuffed criticism of Europe's role in the Libyan war by outgoing Defense Secretary Robert Gates, saying Washington's allies were "doing the work".
> 
> The spat is the latest sign of tensions among NATO allies in their campaign to oust Muammar Gaddafi, with Britain, France and others rejecting an Italian call earlier this week for a suspension of hostilities to allow humanitarian aid access.
> 
> It broke out as President Barack Obama faces domestic pressure over U.S. involvement in the war, with the House of Representatives due to vote as early as Friday on a proposal to cut off funds for U.S. hostilities in Libya.
> 
> "It was particularly inappropriate for Mr. Gates to say that, and what is more, completely false, given what is going in Libya," Sarkozy told reporters at an EU summit in Brussels.
> 
> "There are certainly other moments in history when he could have said that, but not when Europeans have courageously taken the Libyan issue in hand, and when France and Britain, with their allies, for the most part, are doing the work."
> 
> While the United States has stepped back from a leading role in the strike mission NATO took over on March 31, it has continued to provide essential assets, including reconnaissance planes, air-to-air refueling planes and armed drones.



Sarkozy Rebuffs Robert Gates' Libya War Claims, Insists Europe Is 'Doing The Work'


----------



## High_Gravity

NATO Forces 'Trying To Kill' Gaddafi: U.S. Admiral Samuel J. Locklear 








> A top U.S. admiral has confirmed to a U.S. congressman that NATO forces are trying to kill Muammar Gaddafi, and that the need for ground troops in Libya after the embattled leader falls is anticipated.
> 
> House Armed Services Committee member Mike Turner (R-OH) reveals to The Cable that U.S. Admiral Samuel J. Locklear, commander of the NATO Joint Operations Command in Naples, Italy, told him last month that NATO forces are actively targeting and trying to kill Gaddafi:
> 
> "The U.N. authorization had three components: blockade, no fly zone, and civil protection. And Admiral Locklear explained that the scope of civil protection was being interpreted to permit the removal of the chain of command of Qaddafi's military, which includes Qaddafi," Turner said. "He said that currently is the mission as NATO has defined."
> "I believed that we were [targeting Qaddafi] but that confirmed it," Turner said. "I believe the scope that NATO is pursuing is beyond what is contemplated in civil protection, so they're exceeding the mission."
> 
> 
> Turner's revelation contradicts the Obama administration's previous insistence that regime change is not the ultimate goal of NATO's involvement in Libya, a claim which Locklear apparently still maintained. "Well, certainly if you remove Gaddafi it will affect regime change," Turner quoted Locklear as saying. "[Locklear] did not have an answer to that."
> 
> Turner, who has been opposed to the Libya war from the start, voted against authorizing the effort on Friday morning. That authorization resolution failed 123 to 297.
> 
> He remained critical of what he describes as the Obama administration's blatant neglect of Congress throughout the duration of the mission. "The president hasn't come to Congress and said any of this, and yet Admiral Locklear is pursuing the targeting of Gaddafi's regime, Gaddafi himself, and contemplating ground troops following Gaddafi's removal," Turner said. "They're not being straightforward with Congress...It's outrageous."



NATO Forces 'Trying To Kill' Gaddafi: U.S. Admiral Samuel J. Locklear


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Arrest Warrant Issued By International Criminal Court 








> THE HAGUE, Netherlands -- The International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants Monday for Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, his son and his intelligence chief for crimes against humanity in the early days of their struggle to cling to power.
> 
> Judges announced that Gadhafi is wanted for orchestrating the killing, injuring, arrest and imprisonment of hundreds of civilians during the first 12 days of an uprising to topple him from power after more than four decades, and for trying to cover up the alleged crimes.
> 
> Presiding judge Sanji Monageng of Botswana said Monday there were "reasonable grounds to believe" that Gadhafi and his son are both "criminally responsible as indirect co-perpetrators" for the murder and persecution of civilians.
> 
> The warrants turn Gadhafi, his son Seif al-Islam Gadhafi and intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanoussi into internationally wanted suspects, potentially complicating any efforts to mediate an end to more than four months of intense fighting in the North African nation.
> 
> Libyan officials rejected the court's authority before the decision was read out in a Hague courtroom, claiming the court had unfairly targeted Africans while ignoring what they called crimes committed by NATO in Afghanistan, Iraq "and in Libya now."
> 
> "The ICC has no legitimacy whatsoever. We will deal with it. ... All of its activities are directed at African leaders," government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim told reporters Sunday.




Gaddafi Arrest Warrant Issued By International Criminal Court


----------



## High_Gravity

Fighting rages in western Libya








> Reporting from Kikla, Libya Rebels and forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi exchanged ferocious barrages of antiaircraft and machine-gun fire Sunday as NATO warplanes pounded government-held areas on the edge of the rebel-controlled Nafusa Mountain range, ending a relative lull in combat in western Libya.
> 
> Fighting also erupted near the mountain town of Bir Ghanam on the southern edge of Zawiya province, whose main city of the same name was briefly under rebel control.
> 
> The latest round of clashes began after Kadafi's forces fired Russian-made Grad rockets at rebel positions in key highland areas. At least one rebel was killed and two injured, but the insurgents held their ground, said one of their commanders, who requested anonymity because he has family in Tripoli, the capital and Kadafi's stronghold.
> 
> Rebels in the Nafusa Mountains, a 90-mile range near the Tunisian border with sparsely populated villages and towns, rose up against Kadafi's four-decade rule in February, taking up arms when confronted with his military force.
> 
> In recent weeks, rebel committees governing mountain towns and villages in the area have begun to coordinate more closely with one another and with their allies in the eastern city of Benghazi, where the leaders of the nationwide rebellion have set up their capital.
> 
> NATO jets circled overhead for hours Sunday as rebels armed with assault rifles in Kikla, a front-line mountain town captured by insurgents a month ago, faced off against Kadafi's forces. In the afternoon, planes began striking the nearby town of Qawalish, where rebels say Libyan forces store arms. The fighting continued into the night with ground-shaking thuds. Tracer fire from government antiaircraft weapons could be seen in the distance.
> 
> Libya's official news agency reported the attacks on Qawalish, quoting sources saying "that this aggressive bombardment had caused the martyrdom and injury of a number of people and the destruction of some vehicles."
> 
> State-controlled media also reported NATO bombing strikes Saturday night in the Khalat Furjan district of Tripoli.



Libya conflict: Fighting erupts in western Libya - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Obama: 'Noose Is Tightening' Around Libya's Gaddafi 








> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama said on Wednesday his administration's actions on Libya do not violate the War Powers Act and that it has consulted repeatedly with Congress on the operation.
> 
> "Throughout this process, we consulted with Congress. We've had 10 hearings on it. We've sent reams of information about what the operations are,'' he told a news conference.
> 
> Obama also said the "noose is tightening'' around Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.



Obama: 'Noose Is Tightening' Around Libya's Gaddafi


----------



## High_Gravity

Exclusive: French Military In Libya Arming Tribal Insurgents South Of Tripoli









> With Libyan rebels blocked in the north, the French military has secretly begun supplying weapons to insurgent Berber tribes in the southern mountains, who are attempting to advance on Tripoli, Le Figaro has learned. During the past few weeks, the French military has dropped weapons in the Djebel Nefousa mountains to the Berber rebels, who have taken up the fight against Muammar Gaddafis troops.
> 
> Opposition forces are stuck in the northern city of Misrata and in Brega in the east. Paris hopes the Berber insurgents initial success on the southern front is the best chance to connect to dormant opposition movements in Tripoli. The regimes mercenaries are not being paid anymore. They are barely fed and the population cannot stand the whole situation any longer, says a French source. Tripoli will rise up if the rebels reach it.
> 
> Fearing a military dead end, France decided to begin parachuting rocket launchers, assault rifles, machine guns and anti-tank grenades to rebel forces on the ground. The French military is doing so without intermediaries or the participation of its allies, not even British forces. A high-ranking military source says France could rely on a particularly advanced system for the weapons drop. There was no other way to set up the operation, he said.
> 
> Until now, weapons supplies destined for the rebels took a sometimes circuitous route: sent from Qatar and other Gulf Emirates to Benghazi, the headquarters of the National Transition Council, before being transported by boat to the port of Misrata, a coastal city caught in a long battle with forces loyal to Gaddafi.
> 
> Thanks to the extra weapons dropped in the south, rebels have secured a large zone stretching from the Tunisian border to the area of Gharian, some 60 km south Tripoli. Until now, rebels on the southern front have been progressing from west to east on a ridge that gives them a territorial advantage. But the decisive moment will occur when the insurgent forces have to go down in the plain and confront Gaddafis forces, its tanks and heavy weapons, who stand in the way of reaching the capital.



Exclusive: French Military In Libya Arming Tribal Insurgents South Of Tripoli - Worldcrunch - All News is Global


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's Gadhafi calls for volunteers, women answer








> Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Embattled Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is calling for fresh volunteers in a months-long war with rebels attempting to bring about an end to his 42-year rule -- and women of all ages are answering, CNN has learned.
> 
> Women from in and around Gadhafi's stronghold of Tripoli have been traveling south to a training facility in Bani Walid to practice with weapons, a common sight in a country where young girls receive military training in schools.
> 
> As NATO's airstrikes crossed the 100-day mark and rebels continue to fight to oust Gadhafi, he is tapping everything and everyone in his arsenal to hold on to power.
> 
> At the training facility in Bani Walid, women are training to "defend Moammar and the country," said Sgt. Faraj Ramadan, a woman who is training other women to properly handle weapons.
> 
> "They train to use it, assemble it and take it apart, and to shoot," she told CNN recently. "They were trained and got excellent scores."
> 
> At a recent graduation at the facility, 40-year-old Fatima Masoud said she liked the training. She said she left her textile job every day at 4 p.m. to train.
> 
> "I liked training and defending my country, and now I'm am training women from all ages to use weapons," she said.
> 
> It is unclear how many have answered Gadhafi's call or how many had graduated from the program at Bani Walid.
> 
> But women are fighting alongside government forces.
> 
> A woman, who did not want to identified, fresh from the frontlines, attended the graduation. She was still wearing a cannula in her wrist.
> 
> "Do not underestimate any woman in Libya, whether old or young," the woman said. "The woman is still able to perform more than you think."
> 
> Gadhafi's government claims it has handed out more than a million weapons to civilians since the uprising began. CNN cannot independently verify the claim.



Libya's Gadhafi calls for volunteers, women answer - CNN.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan rebel leader denies receiving weapons from France








> Reporting from Zintan, Libya Reports that France has been secretly supplying weapons to Libyan rebels engaged in daily battles with Moammar Kadafi's forces in the Nafusa Mountains stunned the world. It also surprised the overall commander of the rebel forces, who said Thursday that his men had never received any such weapons.
> 
> "Whoever gave us these arms should come here and tell us where he put them," said Col. Mokhtar Milad Fernana.
> 
> Although the front in eastern Libya has grounded to a stalemate, rebels in the mountainous region in the west appear to be gaining momentum in their fight against Kadafi, as they regularly capture towns and villages that were under his control.
> 
> Earlier in the week, rebel forces captured a desert arms depot filled with military vehicles, ammunition for rockets and large-caliber weapons they have used to fend off Kadafi. Rebels are attempting to push against Kadafi's forces east toward the town of Gharyan and northward toward the coastal areas near Zawiyah.
> 
> A French military official in Paris confirmed Wednesday that weapons had been dropped to the rebels in western Libya after the French newspaper Le Figaro, citing an intelligence memo and unnamed officials, said France airlifted crates full of assault rifles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and Milan anti-tank missiles to rebels in the western mountains.
> 
> A French military spokesperson later described the arms as "light infantry weapons of the rifle type" dropped over several days "so that civilians would not be massacred."
> 
> "We began by dropping humanitarian aid: food, water and medical supplies," Col. Thierry Burkhard, spokesman for the French general staff, told Agence France-Presse. "During the operation, the situation for the civilians on the ground worsened. We dropped arms and means of self-defense, mainly ammunition."
> 
> But Fernana, who has commanded the rebel forces since he was elected leader of the region's various military councils on March 15, said he had not heard of any such weapons drops, even though he is in constant contact with all the mountain range's military commanders and meets weekly with them in Zintan, home to the local command.
> 
> Fernana said he contacted his associates across the region immediately after hearing reports of the French arms drops on Arab television channels, and discovered that it was news to them, as well.
> 
> He said the rebels have transformed a long stretch of highway into a makeshift runway, with markings for airplanes, and have already landed one plane as a test. He welcomed any international help, but reiterated that they haven't received any weapons from the French.
> 
> "As far as the military council is concerned," Fernana said, "we didn't hear anything."
> 
> He went on to suggest that France was engaging in psychological warfare to pressure Kadafi.
> 
> "They're fighting more of an information war," he said. "They need to fight Kadafi."
> 
> Meanwhile, Libyan state television reported fresh NATO airstrikes in the Zawiya district west of the capital, where rebels are advancing from the western mountains into the town of Bir Ghanem.
> 
> "A military source has said that the crusader NATO aggression yesterday night bombed a gate to facilitate the movement of traffic belonging to public security in the area of Bir Ghanem in Zawiyah, which left a number of people martyred and injured and destroyed a number of citizens' cars," Libyan state television reported.



Libyan rebel leader denies receiving weapons from France - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Aisha Gaddafi, Muammar Gaddafi's Daughter: Libya Government In Talks With Rebels 








> PARIS  The daughter of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi says both direct and indirect negotiations are being held between her father's authorities and Libyan rebels.
> 
> Aicha Gadhafi didn't elaborate during the France-2 network interview aired on French television Thursday night.
> 
> But she added to end the spilling of Libyan blood "we are ready to ally ourselves with the devil, with the rebel army."
> 
> During the translated interview filmed in a Tripoli hotel Aicha Gadhafi said her father remains "strong" and cannot leave the land where he is "a symbol, a guide."
> 
> Gadhafi's only daughter, in her mid-30s, held back tears when speaking of France's role in the NATO bombing campaign.
> 
> Aicha Gadhafi studied in France and said she had lost a daughter and brother in the bombings.



Aisha Gaddafi, Muammar Gaddafi's Daughter: Libya Government In Talks With Rebels


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Warns NATO, Vows To Stay On 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- A defiant Moammar Gadhafi threatened Friday to carry out attacks in Europe against "homes, offices, families," unless NATO halts its campaign of airstrikes against his regime in Libya.
> 
> The Libyan leader, sought by the International Criminal Court for brutally crushing an uprising against him, delivered the warning in an audio message played to thousands of supporters gathered in the main square of the capital Tripoli.
> 
> It was one of the largest pro-government rallies in recent weeks, signaling that the embattled Libyan leader can still muster significant support. Gadhafi addressed the mass gathering in Green Square, speaking from an unknown location in a likely sign of concern over his safety.
> 
> Addressing the West, Gadhafi said Libyans might take revenge.
> 
> "These people (the Libyans) are able to one day take this battle ... to Europe, to target your homes, offices, families, which would become legitimate military targets, like you have targeted our homes," he said.
> 
> "We can decide to treat you in a similar way," he said of the Europeans. "If we decide to, we are able to move to Europe like locusts, like bees. We advise you to retreat before you are dealt a disaster."
> 
> Friday's was one of the largest pro-government rallies in recent weeks.
> 
> It came just four days after the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Gadhafi, his son Seif al-Islam and Libyan intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanoussi for crimes against humanity. International prosecutors allege government troops fired on civilian protesters during anti-Gadhafi street demonstrations earlier this year.
> 
> The popular uprising has since turned into a protracted civil war, with anti-government rebels controlling much of eastern Libya and parts of Libya's western mountains. NATO has been bombing government-linked targets since March.
> 
> In his speech Friday, Gadhafi denounced the rebels as traitors and blamed them for Libya's troubles. He said Libyans who fled to neighboring Tunisia are now "working as maids for the Tunisians."
> 
> "What brought you to this stage? The traitors," Gadhafi said in the audio message.
> 
> He urged his supporters to "march on the western mountains" to clear the area of weapons the French government delivered to the rebels there several days ago.



Gaddafi Warns NATO, Vows To Stay On


----------



## High_Gravity

Rebels in Libya's west gain ground








> Reporting from outside Bir Ghanam, Libya Rebels in Libya's western Nafusa mountain range were less than 50 miles from the nation's capital Thursday and edging closer to their first significant victory outside their mountain stronghold, pounding the small town of Bir Ghanam with artillery and rockets.
> 
> Rebels were firing on government positions from a cement factory in the foothills of the mountains as NATO warplanes, including at least one Apache helicopter, aided in the battle by striking government troops at least three times.
> 
> The rebels had already advanced far from their home turf toward heavily populated areas controlled by Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi's forces, and they expressed fears that civilians would be caught in the crossfire once a battle to the finish began.
> 
> Bir Ghanam appeared to have been cleared of civilians. But some fighters said they feared a bloodbath in the relatively large city of Aziziya, halfway up the road to Tripoli, and possibly the key city of Gharyan, which rebels were approaching from the eastern edge of their stronghold.
> 
> "The power of Kadafi doesn't depend on his weapons," Col. Mokhtar Milad Fernana, commander of rebel forces in western Libya, said in an interview Thursday. "He uses civilians as shields to protect himself."
> 
> Although the fighting on the front in eastern Libya has ground to a stalemate, rebels in the mountainous region in the west appear to be gaining momentum.
> 
> Those rebels say they are using fresh recruits, many from other parts of the country, and weapons they've captured to fight Kadafi's forces. They say they are attacking on three fronts: Bir Ghanam, which lies on flatlands at the northern edge of rebel territory; to the west beyond the town of Kikla toward Gharyan; and to the south toward the military base at Tawama.
> 
> They have transformed a long stretch of highway into a makeshift runway, with markings for airplanes, and have already landed one plane as a test.
> 
> The rebel forces were bolstered by the recent capture of a large caches of government weapons near Zintan, where their unified command is based. However, Fernana denied that his men had received weapons from France, as claimed by French officials Wednesday.
> 
> "Whoever gave us these arms should come here and tell us where he put them," he said.
> 
> One fighter in Bir Ghanam carried what appeared to be a new Belgian-made assault rifle  a type increasingly common among rebels  that he said came from a crate of weapons labeled "Qatar," the Arabian Peninsula kingdom that wholeheartedly supports the effort to oust Kadafi.
> 
> Fernana, a former commander of Libyan ground forces, defected to the rebel cause after the February uprising against Kadafi's 42-year rule. He has commanded the rebel forces in the west since he was elected leader of the region's various military councils March 15. He said he was in constant contact with the mountain rebel commanders and met weekly with them in Zintan. His forces, he said, were solidly under the authority of the rebel leadership in Benghazi.



Libya conflict: Rebels in Libya's west appear to gain momentum - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya To Charge 21 Rebel Leaders In Special Court 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libyan prosecutors plan to charge rebel leaders with national security crimes, seeking to convict as traitors those leading the armed uprising against Moammar Gadhafi that has plunged the country into civil war, officials said Wednesday.
> 
> A judge compiling the charges laid out his case against 21 rebel officials who are based in the eastern city of Benghazi, including the National Transitional Council's head, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil. Defendants will be tried in absentia.
> 
> Rebel leaders in Benghazi could not immediately be reached for comment.
> 
> The charges include facilitating foreign intervention in Libya, providing aid and military secrets to the enemy, and seeking to topple Gadhafi's regime by force.
> 
> Judge Khalifa Isa Khalifa told reporters in the Libyan capital of Tripoli that he plans to present the case before a special court presided over by a three-judge panel next week. He said the evidence includes testimony from several witnesses.
> 
> The allegations "amount to treason of the homeland of Libya," government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said.
> 
> Khalifa did not specify what punishment the defendants could face, but Ibrahim said those found guilty of treason could face the death penalty under Libyan law.
> 
> If convicted, Libya will seek international help, such as issuing Interpol warrants, to "demand that they are brought to justice," Khalifa said.
> 
> There is little likelihood of that happening as long as fighting rages, however. The rebels enjoy significant support from allies in the West and among several oil-rich Gulf Arab states, and Gadhafi himself is wanted under an international arrest warrant.
> 
> The International Criminal Court last week issued arrest warrants for Gadhafi, his son Seif al-Islam and Libyan intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanoussi for crimes against humanity. International prosecutors at the Netherlands-based court allege government troops fired on civilian protesters during anti-Gadhafi street demonstrations earlier this year.
> 
> Opponents of Gadhafi's regime, inspired by uprisings in neighboring Tunisia and Egypt, began protesting against the longtime leader in February.
> 
> The unrest quickly turned into a bloody civil war, with anti-government rebels now controlling much of eastern Libya from and pockets in the west. NATO has been bombing government-linked targets since March under a United Nations mandate to protect civilians.



Libya To Charge 21 Rebel Leaders In Special Court


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: NATO Intensifying Bombing To Aid Rebel Push 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- A senior Libyan official Thursday accused NATO of intensifying its bombing campaign and backing foreign mercenaries to lay the groundwork for an advance by rebels trying to topple Moammar Gadhafi's regime.
> 
> Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim told The Associated Press in an early morning interview that the alliance's increased bombings represent the "final phase" of the air campaign. But he said the push will fail and that civilians will be the ones to pay the price.
> 
> Kaim said NATO targeted police checkpoints in the Nafusa mountains southwest of Tripoli ahead of a rebel advance toward the village of Qawalish, which rebel fighters claimed they seized Wednesday. They were later pushed back by government troops, he said.
> 
> A fuel depot in the key eastern oil town of Brega was also destroyed, Kaim said. NATO said it hit equipment used to refuel government military vehicles.
> 
> The intensified campaign, he said, is focused on targeting civilian infrastructure and police checkpoints, and providing additional weapons to rebel fighters.
> 
> "The aim of these attacks is to help the rebels to advance. But I assure you, it will be another failure for them," he said.
> 
> Kaim also said Libyan forces have evidence that Colombian mercenaries funded by the West and its Arab allies have joined the rebel fighters trying to advance toward the capital Tripoli from the western rebel-held city of Misrata.
> 
> Some of the Colombian fighters had been killed in clashes near Misrata on Wednesday, he said. While Kaim was not immediately able to provide evidence to substantiate the allegation, he said it would soon be shown to journalists based in Tripoli.
> 
> NATO began airstrikes against Libya in March. The coalition and its Arab allies are operating under a U.N. mandate to protect civilians.
> 
> Some countries in the coalition have interpreted that mandate broadly, with France acknowledging it has provided weapons to rebels operating in the mountains and other countries providing non-lethal aid to rebel-held areas.
> 
> Libyan officials earlier this week showed journalists assault rifles and ammunition they claimed had been shipped to rebels by the wealthy Gulf Arab state of Qatar.
> 
> Rebel forces took heavy losses in the fighting outside Misrata Wednesday as Gadhafi's soldiers fired more than 500 rockets at rebel positions near the town of Zlitan, west of the city. Dr. Ayman Abu Shahma, a physician in Misrata, said 18 fighters had been killed along with two civilians, including a 12-year-old girl. Thirty other people were wounded.
> 
> NATO late last week announced it had begun ramping up its airstrikes on military targets in the western part of Libya. It said it is targeting government forces in cities and along "major lines of communication."



Libya: NATO Intensifying Bombing To Aid Rebel Push


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi's New Forces: The Teenagers and Women Keeping Libya's Rebels from Taking Tripoli








> "They told us al-Qaeda fighters infiltrated the country," the shy 16-year old says, standing in a non-descript building in the coastal city of Misratah where rebels are holding their prisoners. Murad nervously bites his nails as he relates how forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi plucked him out of school and shipped him to fight at the front against a "foreign conspiracy aimed at occupying the country." With half of his country controlled by rebel forces, Gaddafi is having difficulty finding soldiers to fight his battles. Without an effective standing army, he has increasingly relied on teen soldiers, African mercenaries, and more recently women, to defend his 42-year rule.
> 
> Since the beginning of an uprising against him in February, Gaddafi has recruited Africans from neighboring countries such as Chad and Niger to fight the rebels. Journalists who visited the eastern city of Ajdabiyah in late March saw dozens of black African corpses of fighting age men. In Misratah, a European told the Associated Press he saw piles of similar bodies, apparently executed in late April. Rebels told him the men were from Mali, Chad, and Niger. A Misrati official with the rebel's political council confirmed this account to TIME. Abd al-Basit Abu Mzirig, in charge of Human Rights for the rebel's Justice division, says he met seven mercenaries who were from Mali, but possessed Libyan identification cards issued after the beginning of the February revolution. Though Gaddafi officials could not be reached for comment, they have previously denied recruiting mercenaries from neighboring countries in the conflict.
> 
> "No one whatsoever provided a shred of reliable evidence, a shred of reliable evidence that we imported mercenaries from black Africa to fight," declared Libya's Minister of Information Musa Ibrahim during a press conference last month.
> 
> Nevertheless, international organizations have censured Libya for doing so. In the United Nations Security Council resolution authorizing force against Libya, it deplored "the continuing use of mercenaries by the Libyan authorities" and imposed a travel ban on the country's ambassador to Chad and the governor of a southern province for being "directly involved in recruiting mercenaries."
> 
> Using African mercenaries is nothing new for Gaddafi. In 1972, he created an "Islamic Legion" composed of nomadic tribes such as the Tuaregs and Toubou that populate the fringes of the Sahara desert. Gaddafi dispatched them to bolster his army units fighting neighboring Chad during a war that lasted from 1978 until 1987.
> 
> Gaddafi has been compelled to employ mercenaries because his armed forces are in a decrepit state. He has long neglected his army and marginalized all but its most loyal commanders out of fear that they would overthrow him. More than a dozen coup attempts against Gaddafi during his four decades in power have stoked such suspicions. Seven years of United Nations sanctions against Libya have also taken their toll  the country was prohibited from purchasing weapons because it refused to extradite two men suspected of downing of a 1988 Pan Am flight over Lockerbie Scotland. Military analysts have noted that units are under trained, under equipped, and ill-prepared to fight a war.



Read more: How Gaddafi is Throwing Women and Teens Against The Rebels - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

Senior Rebel Is Doubtful Qaddafi Can Be Routed








> RUJBAN, Libya  For months now, military leaders in the rebel capital, Benghazi, have boldly predicted lightning advances by their fighters and an imminent rout of the forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi in Tripoli that would finally snuff out his brutal four-decade rule.
> 
> The rebels have made some advances in the west in recent days, taking a small village in the Nafusah Mountains and pushing westward some distance from Misurata toward Tripoli. But a senior rebel military officer here in the mountains who said he defected last month from the Libyan Army called the prospects of a collapse by Colonel Qaddafis forces highly unlikely.
> 
> The officer, Col. Mohammed Ali Ethish, who now commands opposition fighters here, said that even if the rebels were able to reach Tripoli, shortages of fuel, personnel and weapons made it unlikely that they would try to invade or march on the heavily fortified city.
> 
> A more realistic possibility, he said, is for rebels and others within the city to rise up against Colonel Qaddafi. I hope that when we do reach the borders of Tripoli, the revolutionaries there free it, Colonel Ethish said. If we dont go in with an organized army, theres going to be a huge mess.
> 
> In the meantime, he said, the mountain fighters were focused on the more modest goal of winning cities in the region, either by persuading Colonel Qaddafis soldiers to defect or by driving them out in battle.
> 
> His candid comments raised the possibility of a protracted endgame in the Libyan conflict. They also provided little comfort to NATO countries that face increasing pressure to end the bombing campaign and seem desperate to find a quick exit, either by arming the rebels or by killing Colonel Qaddafi with airstrikes.
> 
> Although Colonel Ethish said he was speaking for the fighters from Rujban, rebel fighters from other mountain towns also said that talk of a Tripoli offensive was misplaced or premature because they had their hands full on several fronts.
> 
> To the east, they have been fighting in the city of Kiklah, where at least five rebel fighters were killed in clashes this week, commanders said. On Wednesday, the rebels pushed past Kiklah to capture Colonel Qaddafis positions in a small village, Qawalish. At least 13 pro-Qaddafi soldiers and 7 rebels were killed in that fighting.
> 
> North of Kiklah, on the plain that leads toward Tripoli, the rebels have been engaged in a running battle with Colonel Qaddafis forces in Bir al-Ghanim and have so far been unable to advance, despite NATOs repeated bombings of the area.
> 
> Colonel Qaddafis soldiers also control lowland towns stretching from the border with Tunisia to Qasr al-Hajj, leaving rebel control of the border crossing exposed and vulnerable to attack.
> 
> Colonel Ethish said the rebels were low on ammunition for the weapons they rely on in the quick, fluid battles in the mountains, including antiaircraft guns and small rocket-launchers. He also said he had seen no evidence on the battlefield of the weapons the French said they had provided to the rebels.
> 
> In several rebel-held mountain towns, new training centers are being constructed, with the aim of building the kind of disciplined forces that can cope with any chaos that follows the war, the colonel said.
> 
> In Kiklah, on the site of a former teachers college for women, hundreds of recruits will be trained to serve as a protection force for civilians in the event that Colonel Qaddafi leaves power, according to a volunteer, a small-business owner who lives in the United States and who asked not to be identified because he has family in territory controlled by Colonel Qaddafis forces.
> 
> A lot of people are going to have a lot of anger, he said. We want to keep it under control.
> 
> Colonel Ethish said a center being built in Rujban, in trailers that once stored food, would be for training special forces troops who would also serve a policing function if Colonel Qaddafi left power.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/08/world/africa/08libya.html?ref=world


----------



## Ropey

> On the 25th March 2011, I found a blog by a German woman living in Libya, her blog was spreading lies sounding exactly as the crap you get from Libyan state TV and the Libyan dreadful fat poodle spokesman Musa Ibrahim, I commented there telling her to stop being a mouth piece for Gaddafi and to be real, surprisingly she answered meaning she has Internet access in Tripoli while the whole population there can not access the Internet since it was cut off about 3 weeks ago!
> 
> Now the news emerged that she is the wife of the FAT POODLE Libyan spokesman Ibrahim Musa and her previously unknown blog is getting a lot of hate comments.
> 
> My advise to her is to take her child and leave the country, tell the world about what is happening in Libya and about her nasty husband, she should save herself before she is faced with reality and as for her husband, he is a wanted man internationally and has no place to escape to.



http://haderza.blogspot.com/


----------



## jbranco254

Not to sound "diffrent" or to raise any hell, but you guys do complain alot. Im willing to bet none of you has really done anything about all the problems you bitch about personally, but you are great net warriors.


----------



## jbranco254

How do I get a list of the aircraft charter contracts awarded by the UN for Libya? I bid, but recieved no reply.
Thanks


----------



## High_Gravity

jbranco254 said:


> Not to sound "diffrent" or to raise any hell, but you guys do complain alot. Im willing to bet none of you has really done anything about all the problems you bitch about personally, but you are great net warriors.



What the fuck are you talking about? net warriors? I'm just trying to spread information about whats going on in Libya you fucking clown.


----------



## High_Gravity

Saif Gaddafi, Muammar Gaddafi's Son, Says Libyan Administration In Talks With French Government 








> TRIPOLI, July 11 (Reuters) - Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, a son of the Libyan leader, said his father's administration was in talks with the French government, according to an interview published on Monday in an Algerian newspaper.
> 
> "The truth is that we are negotiating with France and not with the rebels," the El Khabar newspaper quoted Saif al-Islam as saying in an interview in Tripoli.
> 
> "Our envoy to (Nicolas) Sarkozy said that the French president was very clear and told him 'We created the (rebel) council, and without our support, and money, and our weapons, the council would have never existed'," it quoted Saif al-Islam as saying. (Reporting by Lamine Chikhi; Writing by Christian Lowe; Editing by Janet Lawrence)



Saif Gaddafi, Muammar Gaddafi's Son, Says Libyan Administration In Talks With French Government


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Is 'Ready To Go,' Says French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe








> PARIS -- France's foreign minister said Tuesday Paris has had contact with emissaries from Moammar Gadhafi who say the embattled Libyan strongman is "prepared to leave."
> 
> Alain Juppe said that while the contacts do not constitute proper negotiations, "everyone (involved in Libya's civil war) has contacts with everyone else. The Libyan regime sends its messengers all over, to Turkey, to New York, to Paris.
> 
> "We receive emissaries who are saying, 'Gadhafi is prepared to leave. Let's discuss it.'"
> 
> France was instrumental in launching the NATO-led operation of airstrikes against Gadhafi's forces, in a U.N.-mandated mission to protect civilians resisting his four-decade regime.
> 
> NATO flew more than 100 sorties Monday and hit several key targets in western Libya, including a military storage facility, three military facilities and seven military vehicles, according to an operational report issued Tuesday.
> 
> French officials have insisted that Gadhafi's giving up power is key to ending the hostilities, which began in mid-March, and Juppe said that more and more countries are now in agreement on that point.
> 
> "There is a consensus on how to end the crisis, which is that Gadhafi has to leave power," Juppe said. "That (consensus) was absolutely not a given two or three months ago.
> 
> "The question is no longer whether Gadhafi is going to leave power, but when and how," he added.
> 
> Parliament is due to vote later Tuesday on whether to continue French participation in the operations in Libya.
> 
> French law requires parliamentary approval for all military campaigns lasting more than four months. The Libya operation has wide support among lawmakers from both the governing conservative party and among the opposition Socialists, and the vote is expected to pass with a broad majority.
> 
> Juppe insisted the operation was helping shape the situation on the ground in Libya.
> 
> "Contrary to what we might hear, things are evolving in Libya," both from a strategic and political perspective, he said.



Gaddafi Is 'Ready To Go,' Says French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan Rebels Accused of Pillage and Beatings








> ZINTAN, Libya &#8212; Rebels in the mountains in Libya&#8217;s west have looted and damaged four towns seized since last month from the forces of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, part of a series of abuses and apparent reprisals against suspected loyalists that have chased residents of these towns away, Human Rights Watch said Tuesday.
> 
> 
> Rebel fighters also beat people suspected of being loyalists and burned their homes, the organization said.
> 
> The towns that have suffered the abuses are Qawalish, which rebels seized last week, Awaniya, Rayaniyah and Zawiyat al-Bagul, which fell to the rebels last month. Some of the abuses, Human Rights Watch said, were directed against members of the Mashaashia tribe, which has long supported Colonel Qaddafi.
> 
> The organization&#8217;s findings come as support for the war has waned in Europe and in Washington, where Republicans and Democrats alike have questioned American participation on budgetary and legal grounds.
> 
> They also raise the prospect that the NATO-backed rebel advances, which have stalled or slowed to a crawl, risk being accompanied by further retaliatory crimes that could inflame tribal or factional grievances, endangering the civilians that NATO was mandated to protect.
> 
> Rebel officials in the mountains have played down the looting and arson in recent days. In an interview on Sunday, Col. Mukhtar Farnana, the region&#8217;s senior commander, said that reprisals were not sanctioned and that he did not know any details about them.
> 
> But Human Rights Watch said the same commander shared details with its investigators and conceded that rebels had abused people suspected of being collaborators as towns changed hands.
> 
> &#8220;People who stayed in the towns were working with the army,&#8221; the organization quoted him as saying. &#8220;Houses that were robbed and broken into were ones that the army had used, including for ammunition storage.&#8221; The commander added, &#8220;Those people who were beaten were working for Qaddafi&#8217;s brigades.&#8221;
> 
> He also said that his forces were under orders not to loot, and that if it were not for those orders &#8220;people would have burned these towns down to the ground.&#8221;
> 
> A rebel near Qawalish on Tuesday confirmed Colonel Farnana&#8217;s view, saying that the rebels had instructions not to &#8220;break anything or burn houses,&#8221; but that orders ran up against the realities of waging war with a nonprofessional, quasi-military force.
> 
> &#8220;Before we liberate an area, we do have intelligence information about the people who were helping the army in the local town,&#8221; said the rebel, Hatam Idris. &#8220;So we do know these people, and their homes. And when we liberate a town, we go straightaway to those homes.&#8221;
> 
> The houses often have ammunition or weapons in them, he said, and often are ransacked and burned. &#8220;Some people do this individually,&#8221; he said.
> 
> He described steps that might protect the homes as impractical, given the rebel army&#8217;s structure and limited manpower. &#8220;We can&#8217;t just keep guarding and looking after these homes,&#8221; he said.
> 
> Colonel Farnana said that some rebels had been arrested and punished for these crimes. His claim could not immediately be confirmed.
> 
> Rebel conduct in the war has been mixed. Many captured pro-Qaddafi soldiers have received medical treatment in rebel hospitals and have been kept in detention centers that nongovernment organizations have been allowed to visit.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/world/africa/13libya.html?ref=africa


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Suicide Plan For Tripoli Reported By Russian Envoy 








> If rebels would take over Tripoli, Muammar Gaddafi would consider blowing up his countrys capital, Russian envoy to Libya Mikhail Margelov told the Russian newspaper Izvestya in an interview, Bloomberg and AFP reported Thursday.
> 
> Margelov arrived in Libya last month and held talks with the Libyan government and prime minister Baghdadi al-Mahmudi. The Libyan premier told me: if rebels take the city, we will cover it with missiles and blow it up, Margelov told Izvestya. The Russian envoy never met with Gaddafi.
> 
> While Libyas flamboyant leader is known for several controversial defense plans -- he vowed to defeat NATO and threatened earlier to launch a campaign of suicide attacks across Europe -- this most recent reported tactic raised eyebrows.
> 
> Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard, the Canadian top commander of NATO operations in Libya, had never heard of the Colonels suicide plans. I can report that the Gaddafi regime has given direction to its forces to destroy certain facilities as they withdraw back, such as fuel refineries and other aspects. This is a leader that will not hesitate to kill his population to achieve his personal goal, the general told The Globe and Mail. Lets be clear. Just because Gaddafi has given a direction, that does not mean that that direction is being undertaken by his troops, the General added.
> 
> On Thursday, Turkeys Foreign Ministry announced it will propose a Road Map that might bring an end to the Libyan civil war. The document will be discussed during a meeting with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and over forty members of the Contact Group of Libya on Friday.



Gaddafi Suicide Plan For Tripoli Reported By Russian Envoy


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Contact Meeting Seeks Gaddafi's Exit To End War 








> ISTANBUL, July 15 (Reuters) - Western and Arab powers began talks in Turkey on Friday aimed at finding a political solution for Libya that would persuade Muammar Gaddafi to give up power and end a conflict that could otherwise drag on interminably.
> 
> The fourth meeting of the Libya contact group, established in London in March, comes after reports suggesting Gaddafi might be ready to give up his 41-year rule if he could get a deal.
> 
> Turkey's Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu is hoping that a political solution to the conflict could emerge by the Muslim holy month of Ramadan which starts in August.
> 
> Dining with NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen on the eve of the gathering, Davutoglu said the focus would be on "on steps for an immediate solution in Libya", a Turkish diplomat said.
> 
> U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton were among more than a dozen foreign ministers attending the Istanbul talks, along with heads of NATO, the Arab League and other regional organisations.
> 
> Speaking in the Hague on Thursday, Rasmussen called on NATO members to provide more warplanes to bomb Libyan military targets, as the alliance seeks to keep military pressure on Gaddafi while protecting civilians from his forces.
> 
> China and Russia, two powers who have taken a softer line toward Gaddafi, were invited to the contact group meeting for the first time, but both decided against becoming involved.
> 
> *UNCERTAIN INTENTIONS*
> 
> No one appears sure whether Gaddafi intends to fight on in the hope of keeping his grip on the territory round Tripoli or seek an exit strategy that guarantees security for himself and his family, but he is not seen having any future role in Libya.
> 
> "Countries are starting to look past Gaddafi. He's going to go, and the meeting can be a useful place to take stock of and prepare for that transition," one senior U.S. official told reporters aboard Clinton's plane before landing in Istanbul.
> 
> "That's the way we're thinking about this meeting: trying to see it as a pivot in this process."
> 
> Earlier this week, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said emissaries from Gaddafi's government in contact with NATO members had said that Gaddafi was ready to quit, but the U.S. officials were unconvinced.
> 
> "There are a lot of straws in the wind," a second U.S. official said. "We are not persuaded yet that any of this is decisive in terms of the red lines that we have laid out."
> 
> The international community has told Gaddafi he must cease violence against his people, withdraw his forces and step down.



Libya Contact Meeting Seeks Gaddafi's Exit To End War


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Recognized By U.S.








> ISTANBUL  U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says the Obama administration has decided to formally recognize Libya's main opposition group as the country's legitimate government. The move gives foes of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi a major financial and credibility boost.
> 
> Clinton announced Friday that Washington accepts the Transitional National Council as the legitimate governing authority of the Libyan people. Diplomatic recognition of the council means that the U.S. will be able to fund the opposition with some of the more than $30 billion in Gahdafi-regime assets that are frozen in American banks.
> 
> Clinton made the announcement at an international conference on Libya in Istanbul.



Libya Rebels Recognized By U.S.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's rebels stage bold offensive on oil town of Brega









> Libya's rebels have advanced on the town of Brega, a strategically important oil port in eastern Libya that has been held by Qaddafi's forces since March. While reports conflict on whether they now have complete control of the town, the offensive is seen as one of their most ambitious to date.
> 
> According to BBC, one rebel spokesman said that they were in charge of the northeastern section of the town and were staging an offensive in the southwestern section. Agence France-Presse reports that the rebels were engaged in close-range combat within Brega, but that poorly coordinated advances and the resulting losses prompted them to pause their assault in order to regroup for a more organized offensive.
> 
> 
> "Some small groups have made it inside, but we do not control the whole (town) yet," rebel spokesman Mohammed Zawi said, according to AFP. "It is now close fighting."
> 
> CNN reports that the troops fielded thousands of landmines along the approaches to Brega as well as an intentional fire fed continuously by an oil pipeline, which slowed their advance. An expedition group entered the city ahead of the bulk of the troops and clashed with Qaddafi's forces. According to the CNN report, the troops are now about five miles from the town.
> 
> According to Reuters, which reports that the rebels have booted most of Qaddafi's forces from the town, his troops mostly retreated to Ras Lanuf, a town to the west of Brega.
> 
> The Guardian reports that the Brega offensive is one of the rebels' most ambitious and has been bolstered by NATO air attacks.
> 
> On Friday, Nato jets  soon to be bolstered by four extra Tornados from the UK  destroyed 14 military vehicles at Brega, compared with 17 destroyed there during the previous six days.
> 
> The rebel push on Brega is one of the most ambitious of the war, with newly trained units launching a three-pronged attack. While a central advance is struggling to clear minefields near Brega, other units have enveloped government forces from the north and south. The rebel forces say 10 fighters have died and 170 were wounded. Tripoli has released no casualty figures of its own.
> 
> Meanwhile, Russia criticized the United States' decision to recognize the rebel government, the National Transitional Council (NTC), as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people, saying the move is a clear sign that the US has taken sides in a civil war, the Guardian reports.
> 
> "Supporters of such a decision are supporters of a policy of isolation, in this case the isolation of those forces that represent Tripoli," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said. Moscow is in contact with both Tripoli and the rebels, he said, and has recognized the NTC as a negotiating partner, but nothing further.
> 
> Russia has been wary of foreign intervention in Libya from the outset  it abstained, along with China, from voting on the United Nations resolution that authorized a foreign military intervention in Libya and afterward became a vocal critic of the mission.
> 
> Mr. Lavrov was careful to emphasize that despite Russia's opposition to intervention and US recognition, Russia would not offer Qaddafi asylum should he choose to step down, RIA Novosti reports.



Libya's rebels stage bold offensive on oil town of Brega - CSMonitor.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Claim To Have Routed Most Of Gaddafi's Troops In Oil Town Of Brega, Government Denies Claim 








> MISRATA, Libya, July 18 (Reuters) - Rebel forces have routed most of Muammar Gaddafi's troops in the Libyan oil town of Brega in the biggest boost of their campaign in weeks, spokesmen said on Monday. The government denied the claim.
> 
> More than 40 people on both sides were reported killed in fighting over the city since late last week.
> 
> The rebels have encircled Brega, an oil export terminal with a refinery which for months marked the eastern limit of Gaddafi's control, said spokesman Shamsiddin Abdulmolah.
> 
> But its streets were strewn with landmines, making it hard to secure full control of the area.
> 
> "The main body (of Gaddafi's forces) retreated to Ras Lanuf," which lies to the west, he said by telephone from the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi.
> 
> However, government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said that, "our brave soldiers and volunteer soldiers are in Brega in their thousands and control it completely."
> 
> "NATO and the rebels have tried to attack Brega for the last five days," he told foreign journalists in the capital Tripoli. "The only way for them to control Brega is to attack it with nuclear bombs."
> 
> He said the government had lost 30 soldiers over five days of fighting, but rebels had lost many times more. Abdulmolah said 12 rebels were killed and some 300 wounded on Saturday and Sunday.
> 
> Most rebel forces were now past Brega and heading west towards the towns of Bishr and Ugayla, he said.
> 
> *MOSCOW UNEASE*
> 
> While rebel fighters have been making gains in eastern and western Libya in recent days, Russia criticised the United States and other countries for recognising the rebel leadership as the legitimate government of Libya, saying they were taking sides in the insurgents' five-month-old war to oust Gaddafi.
> 
> "Those who declare recognition stand fully on the side of one political force in a civil war," Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters in Moscow.
> 
> Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced U.S. recognition of the rebels on Friday, a major diplomatic step that could unblock billions of dollars in frozen Libyan funds.
> 
> Russia and China have taken a softer line towards Libyan leader Gaddafi, and neither attended an international meeting on the conflict in Turkey on Friday.
> 
> Brega, about 750 km (465 miles) east of Tripoli, has a strategic oil terminal. The attack could signal a new rebel push westwards after weeks of stalemate.
> 
> It has changed hands several times in the back-and-forth fighting along Libya's Mediterranean coast since the rebellion began in February.
> 
> Libyan TV, in a bid to counter the rebel claims, showed what it said was footage taken on Monday in Brega. Students were shown taking an exam, and there were pictures of the port, oil terminal and a worker at a natural gas plant in the city.
> 
> Rebels say taking Brega will this time be a tipping point in the conflict on the eastern front.
> 
> "It is going to take the revolutionaries at least 10 days to claim full control of Brega," said rebel spokesman Abdelsalam in Misrata.
> 
> Gaddafi is refusing to step down despite the five-month-old rebellion against his rule, a campaign of NATO air strikes, and the defections of members of his inner circle.
> 
> The slow progress of the rebel military campaign has caused strains within NATO, some member states pressing for a negotiated solution to hasten the end of a conflict some thought would last only a few weeks.



Libya Rebels Claim To Have Routed Most Of Gaddafi's Troops In Oil Town Of Brega, Government Denies Claim


----------



## High_Gravity

Exiled Islamists Watch Rebellion Unfold at Home








> LONDON  Abu Sohaib spends most of his time online these days, following the news from his native Libya. He is in constant contact with friends on the ground there, helping them map out strategy to fight the rule of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.
> 
> I would like to be there myself; I tried to go, he said, pausing to look at the car keys in front of him. But Tunisia and Egypt wouldnt let me in even after their revolution.
> 
> Abu Sohaib, his nom de guerre, is on a watch list for suspected terrorists not only in Libya and its neighboring countries, but also in some European countries. He is a senior commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a former militant organization that once was aligned with Al Qaeda. The New York Times is withholding his real name because he said he fears for his safety.
> 
> Today, members of the group have renounced Al Qaeda and are part of the mosaic of rebel fighters united under the umbrella of the Transitional National Council, the opposition leadership that the United States formally recognized as Libyas legitimate government on Friday.
> 
> American, European and Arab intelligence services acknowledge that they are worried about the influence that the former groups members might exert over Libya after Colonel Qaddafi is gone, and they are trying to assess their influence and any lingering links to Al Qaeda.
> 
> The group, whose fighters number more than 500 men, including many with combat experience in Iraq or Afghanistan, was part of the social fabric of eastern Libya, its leaders say. Its members relatives are in Benghazi, the wellhead of opposition to the government in Tripoli. Its fighters opposed Colonel Qaddafi in the 1990s, were captured and died in Abu Salim prison in Tripoli. They hid from Qaddafi security forces in the caves in Darnah until the Libyan revolution. In short, many Libyans say, the men are seen not as an alien, pernicious force but as patriots.
> 
> Libyans have held positions in the Qaeda ranks in the past, with the most prominent men being Abu Laith al-Libi and Abu Yahya al-Libi. It is easy to change a name and say, We are not part of Al Qaeda, but the question is if they have changed their ideology and I doubt it, said a senior Arab intelligence official.
> 
> An American intelligence official who follows North Africa said that dozens of the former groups members trained and fought alongside militants in Pakistans lawless tribal region.
> 
> Abu Sohaib insists that he and his brethren have severed ties to Al Qaeda and have warned the terrorist group it is not welcome in Libya. It has been made very clear to them, that it is better for them to stay out of the country, he said.
> 
> Here in London, Abu Sohaib and a dozen or so former commanders make up a rear-guard headquarters of sorts, with some members shuttling between London and Benghazi to strategize and share donations collected from the sizable Libyan expatriate community in Britain. We are part of the Libyan people and we just want to help our country, Abu Sohaib said.
> 
> The formal American recognition of the rebel leadership allows the rebel government access to $30 billion in Libyan assets held in the United States. Of that, however, only about $3.5 billion is in liquid funds, and the rest in real estate and other Libyan government investments, State Department officials say. It is unclear how and when the money will be distributed to the transitional government, and what oversight mechanism will be placed to monitor it.
> 
> In another sign that Colonel Qaddafis days in power may be numbered, White House and State Department officials acknowledged on Monday that Jeffrey D. Feltman, the assistant secretary of state responsible for the Middle East, met with members of the Libyan government on Saturday in Tunis.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/world/africa/19rebel.html?_r=1&ref=world


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Could Possibly Stay In Libya: French Official 








> PARIS (AP)  France's foreign minister suggested Wednesday that a possible way out of Libya's civil war would be to allow Muammar Gaddafi to stay in the country if he relinquishes power.
> 
> Gaddafi insists he will neither step down nor flee the country he has led for four decades. With the NATO-led air campaign against Gaddafi's forces entering its fifth month and the fighting in a stalemate, the international community is seeking exit strategies.
> 
> French President Nicolas Sarkozy met in Paris on Wednesday with three rebel leaders from the western port city of Misrata who are seeking aid and arms to move toward Tripoli. Sarkozy announced no specific measures in response.
> 
> Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said France wants to keep "a very close link" with the rebels "to see how we can help."
> 
> Asked whether Gaddafi could stay in Libya under house arrest, for example, Juppe said on LCI television Wednesday: "One of the hypotheses that is envisaged is that he stays in Libya, on one condition ... that he clearly steps aside from Libya's political life. This is what we are waiting for before launching a political process."
> 
> The rebels initially insisted that Gaddafi leave the country, but some are not ruling out the possibility that he could stay in Libya if he gives up power. The two sides have been locked in a stalemate with the rebels unable to advance beyond pockets in the west despite a NATO air campaign against Gaddafi's forces.
> 
> Rebel military leaders Ramadan Zarmouh and Ahmed Hachem and the Misrata representative of the opposition government, Souleiman Fortia, met with Sarkozy on Wednesday.
> 
> "Their message was the following: what we did to liberate our city, we can do it to move forward towards Tripoli," said French philosopher Bernard Henri-Levy, who helped organize the meeting and has championed the Libyan rebel cause.
> 
> "If they (the rebels) have the means, they just need a few days to reach the doors of Tripoli. They are expected in the three cities before Tripoli by experienced fighters who are just waiting for them. So a few days will be enough," he said.
> 
> He said Sarkozy listened to them but did not say whether any aid or arms were pledged.
> 
> France has played a driving role in the NATO-led campaign of airstrikes, mandated by the U.N. to protect civilians from a crackdown by Gaddafi's forces on an uprising against his rule, amid revolts this year around the Arab world.
> 
> Last week, more than 30 nations including the United States gave the Libyan rebels a boost by recognizing their National Transitional Council as the country's legitimate government, potentially freeing up billions of dollars in urgently needed cash.



Gaddafi Could Possibly Stay In Libya: French Official


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Unity Government Sought In Post-Gaddafi Nation: UN 








> BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters) - A U.N. envoy will seek to persuade warring parties in Libya to accept a plan that envisages a ceasefire and a power-sharing government - but with no role for Muammar Gaddafi, a European diplomat said.
> 
> The diplomat said the informal proposals would be canvassed by the special U.N. envoy to Libya, Abdul Elah al-Khatib, who has met both government and rebels several times.
> 
> Khatib, a Jordanian senator, told Reuters in Amman he hoped both sides would accept his ideas.
> 
> "The U.N. is exerting very serious efforts to create a political process that has two pillars; one is an agreement on a ceasefire and simultaneously an agreement on setting up a mechanism to manage the transitional period," he said.
> 
> He did not go into the details of that mechanism.
> 
> In public, the Libyan leader remained firm, telling supporters he would never countenance talks with the rebels who rose up in February to try to end his 41-year one-man rule.
> 
> "There will be no talks between me and them until Judgment Day," Gaddafi told a crowd of thousands in his home town of Sirte in a remotely delivered audio message on Thursday.
> 
> "They need to talk with the Libyan people ... and they will respond to them."
> 
> He has, however, said he welcomes talks with Western powers, with no preconditions But Washington and Paris say they have given his officials the same simple message: Gaddafi must go.
> 
> Gaddafi has stepped up his defiant rhetoric in frequent speeches as pressure mounts amid persistent reports of talks.
> 
> The rebels have this week declared advances on several front lines in the divided country, but seem unlikely to unseat him quickly despite months of backing from NATO air strikes, authorized under a U.N. resolution to protect civilians.
> 
> Analysts say the stalemate has led to intensified diplomatic overtures, with France saying for the first time this week that Gaddafi could stay in Libya as long as he gives up power.
> 
> The European diplomat, who declined to be named, said talks had yet to start on Khatib's plan, which foresees an immediate transitional authority made up equally of government and rebels.
> 
> The authority would appoint a president, run the security forces and supervise a reconciliation process, leading to elections to an assembly which would write a constitution.
> 
> Gaddafi and his sons would be excluded from the authority since the rebels would never accept them, but his prime minister, for example, might have a role, the diplomat said.
> 
> The Libyan leader would only accept a transition if his own fate was guaranteed, so he would not immediately be handed to the International Criminal Court in The Hague, which wants him tried for crimes against humanity allegedly committed by his forces, he added.



Libya Unity Government Sought In Post-Gaddafi Nation: UN


----------



## High_Gravity

Airstrike Hits Libyan Capital Just After Midnight 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- Airstrikes hit a southeastern area of the Libyan capital early Sunday.
> 
> The sound of a jet plane, followed by an explosion at 1 a.m., sent up a huge cloud of white smoke, not far from the sprawling compound of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi at Bab al-Aziziyah
> 
> At least two more rumbling blasts could be heard in the east of the city and Libyan television confirmed that an "imperialist Crusader" bombardment had struck the district of Ain Zara, southeast of Tripoli.
> 
> A Libyan opposition group, Free Generation Movement, posted online that there were four explosions in the Ain Zara area and speculated the target could have been the External Security headquarters or facilities for storing weapons.
> 
> Under a U.N. mandate, NATO warplanes have been carrying out airstrikes on the Libyan government military targets.
> 
> Just 24 hours earlier there were a series of at least six explosions in the Bab al-Aziziyah area. NATO later reported a "command and control" facility had been hit.



Airstrike Hits Libyan Capital Just After Midnight


----------



## Dude111

It is just so sad whats happening there!


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi-Held Libya Facing Fuel, Food And Cash Shortages: UN 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- The part of Libya under Moammar Gadhafi's control is wracked by shortages in fuel, food and cash despite a veneer of normalcy, according to a U.N. fact-finding mission.
> 
> In a statement issued late Monday, the United Nations said its weeklong mission to the country had identified lack of fuel, rising food prices, a strained medical system, and a cash crunch as some of the problems besetting Gadhafi's government.
> 
> "Although the mission observed aspects of normalcy in Tripoli, members identified pockets of vulnerability where people need urgent humanitarian assistance," Humanitarian Coordinator Laurence Hart said about the U.N. mission, which concluded Sunday.
> 
> A rebellion that erupted against Gadhafi's long time rule in mid-February has descended into a civil war with roughly half the country now outside government hands.
> 
> The U.N. has passed sanctions against Gadhafi's regime that make importing fuel and goods difficult, and at least 30 countries have recognized the rebels as the country's legitimate representatives.
> 
> The U.N. said the country's medical system is under strain not only because of casualties from the fighting with rebels but the departure of thousands of foreign health workers that kept the system running.
> 
> Libya's acute fuel crisis is also a major problem, said the statement, with endless gas lines around petrol stations despite a fuel rationing system.
> 
> The U.N. quoted Libyan experts claiming that supplies might run out in two weeks.
> 
> Gasoline and other products are currently imported or smuggled through Tunisia and neighboring Algeria. Libya also has working refineries, but not enough capacity to meet daily demand.
> 
> The Islamic fasting month of Ramadan is expected to start Monday and will likely add further strain to the country's food supplies.
> 
> "There are also concerns over the unsustainable food supply chain for the public distribution systems, especially as Ramadan approaches and the conflict persists," the U.N. said. Following a dawn to dusk fast, families during Ramadan are accustomed to large feasts after sundown.
> 
> Banks are also restricting the amount of cash people can withdraw, the U.N. said, after many Libyans withdrew their savings at the start of the crisis.
> 
> The battle between the Libyan government and the rebels has descended into a stalemate with little movement on the various fronts across the country, despite a NATO bombing campaign directed against Gadhafi's forces.



Gaddafi-Held Libya Facing Fuel, Food And Cash Shortages: UN


----------



## High_Gravity

Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, Lockerbie Bomber, Appears At Pro-Gaddafi Rally In Libya 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- A Libyan man convicted in the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am plane over the Scottish town of Lockerbie has attended a rally in Tripoli in support of Moammar Gadhafi, Libya's state TV said.
> 
> The TV broadcast showed a man wearing a white turban and sitting in a wheelchair during Tuesday's rally and identified him as Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, the Lockerbie bomber. Al-Megrahi was convicted in the 1988 downing of the plane that killed 270 people, most of them Americans, over Scotland.
> 
> Al-Megrahi was released from a Scottish prison in 2009 on medical grounds after being diagnosed with prostate cancer. Al-Megrahi returned to a hero's welcome in Libya later that year.
> 
> Gadhafi is locked in battle with Libyan rebels who have seized control of the east of the country and pockets in the west. The fighting began after a popular uprising erupted in February and quickly escalated into civil war.
> 
> Britain, meanwhile, officially recognized Libya's main opposition group as the country's legitimate government, and on Wednesday expelled all diplomats from Gadhafi's regime.
> 
> Foreign Secretary William Hague said Britain is unfreezing 91 million pounds ($150 million) of Libyan oil assets to help the rebels' National Transitional Council, which the U.K. now recognizes as "the sole governmental authority in Libya."
> 
> Hague said the council had been invited to send an ambassador to London, adding that "we will deal with the National Transitional Council on the same basis as other governments around the world."



Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, Lockerbie Bomber, Appears At Pro-Gaddafi Rally In Libya


----------



## idb

High_Gravity said:


> Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, Lockerbie Bomber, Appears At Pro-Gaddafi Rally In Libya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI, Libya -- A Libyan man convicted in the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am plane over the Scottish town of Lockerbie has attended a rally in Tripoli in support of Moammar Gadhafi, Libya's state TV said.
> 
> The TV broadcast showed a man wearing a white turban and sitting in a wheelchair during Tuesday's rally and identified him as Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, the Lockerbie bomber. Al-Megrahi was convicted in the 1988 downing of the plane that killed 270 people, most of them Americans, over Scotland.
> 
> Al-Megrahi was released from a Scottish prison in 2009 on medical grounds after being diagnosed with prostate cancer. Al-Megrahi returned to a hero's welcome in Libya later that year.
> 
> Gadhafi is locked in battle with Libyan rebels who have seized control of the east of the country and pockets in the west. The fighting began after a popular uprising erupted in February and quickly escalated into civil war.
> 
> Britain, meanwhile, officially recognized Libya's main opposition group as the country's legitimate government, and on Wednesday expelled all diplomats from Gadhafi's regime.
> 
> Foreign Secretary William Hague said Britain is unfreezing 91 million pounds ($150 million) of Libyan oil assets to help the rebels' National Transitional Council, which the U.K. now recognizes as "the sole governmental authority in Libya."
> 
> Hague said the council had been invited to send an ambassador to London, adding that "we will deal with the National Transitional Council on the same basis as other governments around the world."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, Lockerbie Bomber, Appears At Pro-Gaddafi Rally In Libya
Click to expand...


Somewhere, in their heart of hearts, the British actions must be influenced by embarassment and anger over the Al-Megrahi affair.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Launch Offensive Against Gaddafi 








> NALUT, Libya (Reuters)  Rebels in Libya's Western Mountains launched an offensive on Thursday against Muammar Gaddafi's troops, one day after Britain granted diplomatic recognition to the opposition.
> 
> With prospects of a negotiated settlement fading, both sides appear to be preparing for the five-month-old war to grind on into the Muslim holy month of Ramadan in August.
> 
> "We have started attacking Ghezaia with rockets and tanks," rebel spokesman Mohammed Maylud said.
> 
> Ghezaia is a town near the Tunisian border which has been in government hands since the conflict began.
> 
> At a checkpoint outside the nearby rebel-held town of Nalut, they sounded optimistic as the fighting began.
> 
> "We are confident we can beat Gaddafi now, we have captured more weapons from the Libyan army, mostly AK-47s," said Mohammed Ahmed, 20, a market trader turned fighter.
> 
> Basim Ahmed, a fighter coming back from the front, said rebels had taken control of parts of three villages and many government troops had fled, but this was not possible to verify.
> 
> As sustained bombardments could be heard in the distance, an ambulance raced to Nalut hospital. A rebel with a gunshot wound to the shoulder was brought into the emergency room, where he lay semi-conscious.
> 
> Minutes later a commotion could be heard in the parking lot. A government soldier who had been captured was led to a hospital bed a few feet away from the rebel. He was missing a hand and was barefoot.
> 
> The soldier, who gave his name as Hassan, told Reuters that the army was losing the will to fight.
> 
> "We don't want to keep fighting. Everybody is against us." he said, speaking from his hospital cot.
> 
> Blood seeped through the bandage bound around the stump of his missing hand but a rebel nonetheless tried to interrogate him, asking him his unit and where he was from.
> 
> Eight wounded combatants lay in the hospital in total -- four rebels and four Gaddafi soldiers. Six other Gaddafi soldiers had been taken prisoner, witnesses said.
> 
> Rebels have taken large swathes of Libya since rising up to end Gaddafi's 41-year rule.
> 
> They hold much of the Western Mountains range, northeast Libya including their stronghold Benghazi, and the western city of Misrata.
> 
> Yet they remain poorly armed and are often disorganized. Despite the backing of NATO air strikes, they have failed to reach the capital Tripoli and appear unlikely to do so soon.
> 
> Ghezaia is of local strategic importance, a base from which government troops attack rebels in the mountains, but if it fell this would not bring the opposition nearer to Tripoli.
> 
> Gaddafi has scoffed at the rebels' efforts to end his rule and has weathered a rebel advance and NATO air raids on his forces and military infrastructure.
> 
> A recent flurry of diplomatic activity has yielded little, with the rebels insisting Gaddafi step down as a first step and his government saying his role is non-negotiable.
> 
> United Nations envoy Abdel Elah al-Khatib visited both sides this week with plans for a ceasefire and a power-sharing government that excludes Gaddafi, but won no visible result.
> 
> Asked about Khatib's proposal, rebel leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil said: "We were surprised the day before yesterday that we are taking 10 steps back... and he says to share power with Muammar Gaddafi's regime. This is laughable."
> 
> Gaddafi also appeared defiant on Wednesday, urging rebels to lay down their arms or suffer an ugly death.
> 
> "We all lead this battle, until victory, until martyrdom," he said in a message aired at a pro-Gaddafi rally in Zaltan, 140 km (90 miles) west of the capital Tripoli.



Libya Rebels Launch Offensive Against Gaddafi


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya War To Continue Whether NATO Leaves Or Not: Gaddafi Camp 








> (Reuters) - Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's camp has vowed to push on with its war against rebels whether or not NATO stops its bombing campaign, leaving little room for diplomacy to end the five-month conflict.
> 
> The rebels and their Western backers kept up the pressure on the veteran leader as the Muslim holy month of Ramadan began, with NATO bombing military targets and dropping leaflets over the capital calling on loyalists to give up.
> 
> The rebels, who have seized about half the country but frequently lose ground to counter-attacks by better armed and trained Gaddafi forces and remain dogged by their own internal divisions, consolidated gains around Zlitan, a key town 160 km (100 miles) east of Tripoli.
> 
> A war that some thought might be over in weeks once NATO forces, backed by a United Nations mandate to protect civilians, started to bomb Gaddafi's military installations in March is instead dragging on into the hot summer and a month of fasting.
> 
> "No one should think that after all the sacrifices we have made, and the martyrdom of our sons, brothers and friends, we will stop fighting. Forget it," state television showed Saif al-Islam, the leader's son, saying to families displaced from the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi.
> 
> "Regardless of whether NATO leaves or not, the fighting will continue until all of Libya is liberated," he added, in comments that were made on Sunday but broadcast on Monday evening.
> 
> Saif al-Islam has not been seen speaking in public for several weeks.
> 
> A United Nations peace envoy was dispatched to Libya last week and Gaddafi's government had previously said that it would only start talks if NATO stopped its bombing raids.
> 
> However, after talks with both sides, the envoy Abdel Elah al-Khatib left without making any visible progress and the world body said the two camps were far apart.
> 
> Gaddafi may also sense an opportunity to exploit divisions caused by the slaying last week of the top rebel military commander in as yet unexplained circumstances.
> 
> The rebels control most of the east of the country and have launched an offensive in the Western Mountains, near Tunisia.
> 
> From Misrata -- Libya's third largest city some 210 km (130 miles) east of the capital which the rebels clung onto after weeks of street-to-street fighting -- they hope to march west.
> 
> "Fasting has only increased our determination and resolve to defeat the brigades of the tyrant (Gaddafi) to liberate Zlitan entirely, God willing, and make our way to our capital Tripoli, God willing," said frontline rebel commander Husam Hussein.



Libya War To Continue Whether NATO Leaves Or Not: Gaddafi Camp


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Allying With Islamists, Qaddafi Son Says








> TRIPOLI, Libya &#8212; After six months battling a rebellion that his family portrayed as an Islamist conspiracy, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi&#8217;s son and one-time heir apparent said Wednesday that he was reversing course to forge a behind-the-scenes alliance with radical Islamist elements among the Libyan rebels to drive out their more liberal-minded confederates.
> 
> &#8220;The liberals will escape or be killed,&#8221; the son, Seif al-Islam el-Qaddafi, vowed in an hourlong interview that stretched past midnight. &#8220;We will do it together,&#8221; he added, wearing a newly grown beard and fingering Islamic prayer beads as he reclined on a love seat in a spare office tucked in a nearly deserted downtown hotel. &#8220;Libya will look like Saudi Arabia, like Iran. So what?&#8221;
> 
> The leading Islamist whom Mr. Qaddafi identified as his main counterpart in the talks, Ali Sallabi, acknowledged their conversations but dismissed any suggestion of an alliance. He said the Libyan Islamists supported the rebel leaders&#8217; calls for a pluralistic democracy without the Qaddafis.
> 
> But the interview nonetheless offered a rare glimpse into the defiant, some say delusional, mentality of the Qaddafi family at a time when they have all but completely retreated from public view under the threat of a NATO bombing campaign, now five months old, and a six-month rebellion.
> 
> On one level, Mr. Qaddafi&#8217;s avowed embrace of the Islamists represents a sharp personal reversal for a man who had long styled himself as a cosmopolitan, Anglophile advocate of Western-style liberal democracy. He continues to refer to the Islamists as &#8220;terrorists&#8221; and &#8220;bloody men,&#8221; and says, &#8220;We don&#8217;t trust them, but we have to deal with them.&#8221;
> 
> But it may also be simply a twist on an old theme, a new version of the Qaddafi argument that by assisting the rebels the Western intervention could usher in a radical Islamist takeover. In a further taunt to the West, he suggested that the Qaddafis would even help the Islamists stamp out the liberals.
> 
> &#8220;You want us to make a compromise. O.K. You want us to share the pot. O.K., But with who?&#8221; he said in imagined dialogue with the Western powers. The Islamists, he said, answering his own questions, &#8220;are the real force on the ground.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;Everybody is taking off the mask, and now you have to face the reality,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I know they are terrorists. They are bloody. They are not nice. But you have to accept them.&#8221; He seemed to enjoy repeating the notion that Western capitals would be forced to welcome the ambassadors or defense minister of a new Islamist Libya.
> 
> &#8220;It is a funny story,&#8221; he said, though he insisted in all seriousness that he and the Islamists would announce a joint communiqué within days, from both Tripoli and the rebels&#8217; provisional capital of Benghazi, Libya. &#8220;We will have peace during Ramadan,&#8221; he said, referring to the current Islamic holy month.
> 
> Less than a week after the mysterious killing of the rebels&#8217; top military commander, Gen. Abdul Fattah Younes, by rebel gunmen, Mr. Qaddafi also seemed to be trying to capitalize on potential divisions within their ranks. There have been suggestions that the general was killed by an Islamist faction, perhaps in retaliation for his actions in his former role as Colonel Qaddafi&#8217;s interior minister, charged with the detention and torture of radical Islamists.
> 
> &#8220;They decided to get rid of those people &#8212; the ex-military people like Abdul Fattah and the liberals &#8212; to take control of the whole operation,&#8221; Mr. Qaddafi said. &#8220;In other words, to take off the mask.&#8221;
> 
> He said that the rebel-held eastern city of Darna, long known as a hotbed of Islamist activism, had already come to resemble the lawless regions of Pakistan. &#8220;It is Waziristan on the Mediterranean,&#8221; he said, adding that he had reached an agreement with local Islamists to allow them to make it &#8220;an Islamic zone, like Mecca.&#8221;
> 
> His comments also conveyed a new disdain for peace talks &#8212; with either the rebels&#8217; governing council or its NATO backers &#8212; which Qaddafi spokesmen still call for almost every day. Mr. Qaddafi attributed recognition by the United States and other countries of the rebels&#8217; governing council to &#8220;a lot of idiot people around the world.&#8221; As for the rebels themselves, Mr. Qaddafi called them &#8220;rats&#8221; and their council &#8220;a fake,&#8221; &#8220;a joke&#8221; and &#8220;a puppet.&#8221;



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/04/world/africa/04seif.html?ref=world


----------



## High_Gravity

Khamis Gaddafi Killed In Airstrike: Reports 








> BENGHAZI, Libya -- Libya's rebels said Friday they have reports that Moammar Gadhafi's youngest son, who commands one of the regime's strongest military brigades, was killed in a NATO airstrike in the western town of Zlitan.
> 
> NATO said in a statement that it was aware of the reports that Khamis Gadhafi had been killed, but it did not confirm his death. It said alliance strikes on Thursday night hit an ammunition depot and military police facility in Zlitan, which is the main front of fighting between rebels and Gadhafi's troops, 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli.
> 
> Mohammed al-Rajali, a spokesman for the rebel leadership in the eastern stronghold of Benghazi said there were unconfirmed reports Khamis was among 32 troops killed when NATO hit a government operations center early Friday.
> 
> "We want to capture all of these criminals and try them and bring them to justice but if killing them this way will stop the bloodshed I think it is another option," al-Rajali told The Associated Press.
> 
> Libyan government officials could also not be reached for comment.
> 
> The death of the 27-year-old Khamis Gadhafi would be a significant blow to the regime's efforts to fight off the rebels. He commands the 32nd Brigade, also known simply as the Khamis Brigade, one of the best trained and equipped units in the Libyan military.
> 
> Khamis' troops have been fighting rebels in and around the western town of Zlitan for months. The town is a major obstacle in the path of rebels from the nearby city of Misrata trying to make their way to the capital, Tripoli. The civil war has largely devolved into a stalemate  both at Zlitan and further east, around the oil port of Brega.
> 
> This isn't the first time Khamis has been reported dead by rebel forces.
> 
> In late March, rumors circulated that he was killed in an airstrike, only to be shown days later on state television attending a celebration in his honor at his father's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli.
> 
> Gadhafi's sons and a daughter have all played roles in their father's regime, some in diplomatic or business roles. His sons Mutassim, Khamis and al-Saadi all head military brigades.
> 
> A third son, Seif al-Islam, has become the Western face of the regime and before the uprising began in February was put forth as the reformer, heading a variety of youth organizations.
> 
> In May, Libyan officials announced on state TV that another of Gadhafi's seven biological sons, Seif al-Arab, was killed along with three of Moammar Gadhafi's grandchildren in a NATO airstrike against his house in the Tripoli neighborhood of Ghargour. The Libyan leader and his wife were inside but escaped unharmed, according to Libyan officials.
> 
> Khamis was injured in U.S. bombing raids in 1986 shortly after Libya was blamed for masterminding a bombing in West Berlin that killed an American soldier and woman. He would have been 2 or 3 years old at the time.
> 
> In February, eight days before the Libyan uprising began, Khamis Gadhafi was given a VIP tour of the Air Force Academy in Colorado during a U.S. tour. After he returned home, he led forces loyal to his father in an assault on the rebel-held city of Zawiya, where civilian protests against his father were crushed.



Khamis Gaddafi Killed In Airstrike: Reports


----------



## High_Gravity

Hana Gaddafi, Libyan Leader's Presumed Dead Daughter, May Be Still Alive: Reports 








> After American planes bombed Tripoli on April 14, 1986, the Libyan Ministry of Information declared that an adopted daughter of Muammar Gaddafi, Hana, less than a year old, had died in the attack. The news was announced on Libyan radio, TV and print media.
> 
> Up until then, no one had heard of the existence of the child -- Aisha, who was born in 1977, was thought to be Gaddafis only daughter.
> 
> The story of the adopted child killed by the Americans has persisted, although some doubted from the outset that Hana really existed and, if she did, that she died. An American journalist at the time was shown the body of a baby girl -- but was she a Gaddafi daughter or a victim being passed off as such for propaganda reasons?
> 
> Whatever the truth, the Libyan state propaganda machine kept milking the story, and on the 20th anniversary of the attack, organized the Hana Festival of Freedom and Peace.
> 
> Then in February 2011, Welt am Sonntag, the Sunday Edition of Die Welt, obtained a copy of a document related to the case that came to light in Switzerland after fighting broke out in Libya, and the Swiss government ordered Gaddafi assets in Switzerland frozen. The document lists 23 members of the Gaddafi clan. Seventh on the list: Hana Gaddafi. An official government spokesperson in Bern told Welt am Sonntag: There are reasons why the name is on the list, which we are not revealing publicly. Hana Gaddafis date of birth is listed as Nov. 11, 1985. At the time of the U.S. bombing, she would have been six months old.
> 
> There were some previous clues in the case. On June 6, 1999, the Chinese Xinhua news agency reported that Gaddafis wife, Safia Farkash al-Barassi, and Gaddafi daughters Aisha and Hana had had lunch with then-South African President Nelson Mandela. Indeed, photographs show a young girl with Mrs. Gaddafi and Aisha.
> 
> In recent information received by "Welt am Sonntag," sources say Hana Gaddafi is alive, has spent considerable time in London as a teenger, and speaks good English. Contacted by Welt am Sonntag, the British Foreign Office said it would not release information about Gaddafis family, and the MI5 intelligence agency would neither confirm nor deny Hana Gaddafis existence.
> 
> In Libya, its an open secret that a Hana Gaddafi studied medicine in Tripoli. The young woman was apparently protected by bodyguards. When I asked who she was, I was told she was Hana Gaddafi, Gaddafis adopted daughter who was supposedly killed in 1986, says an anonymous Internet commentator who claimed to have studied medicine at the university at the same time.
> 
> Libyan sources say Hana Gaddafi became a doctor, that she still lives in Libya, and holds an important position in the Libyan Ministry of Health. Diplomatic circles in Tripoli have known about Hana Gaddafis existence for several years.
> 
> Theories continue to swirl around the story. However, recent developments in Libya indicate that Colonel Gaddafi doesnt shy away from using the supposed death of family members at the hands of Western aggressors to win sympathy from his people.



Hana Gaddafi, Libyan Leader's Presumed Dead Daughter, May Be Still Alive: Reports


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya War: Rebels Claim Most Successful Advance In Months 








> ZINTAN, Libya -- Rebels in the western mountains of Libya spent weeks meticulously organizing in the town of Zintan for what has now become the opposition's most successful advance in months against Moammar Gadhafi's forces.
> 
> Hundreds of regime opponents filtered in from the coastal city of Zawiya and other parts of the Gadhafi-controlled western heartland along the Mediterranean. They formed fighting units in hopes of "liberating" their home towns.
> 
> This town of 40,000 on the plateau of the Nafusa Mountains overlooking the coastal plain has become the nerve center of what is now the most promising front in the rebel campaign to oust Gadhafi: an attempt to flank the grinding deadlock in the center of the country with an assault from the far west.
> 
> Already, the rebels have managed to push northward, threatening Gadhafi's main supply line linking the capital of Tripoli with the Tunisian border to the west.
> 
> Virtually everyone in Zintan, from policemen to hospital cooks and dentists, has either picked up a gun or works at the home front without pay.
> 
> Volunteers distribute food, fuel and supplies trucked in from nearby Tunisia to Zintan's residents to get them through shortages while the town and its neighbors focus on the battle.
> 
> Once or twice a week, a small transport plane touches down on an unpaved landing strip, loaded with cash and medical supplies from the rebel capital of Benghazi hundreds of miles away in the east, a vital lifeline for this mountain town that has entirely geared up to fight Gadhafi.
> 
> "We are looking for freedom," said Mustafa al-Fakhal, 35.
> 
> Al-Fakhal is an engineering teacher, but his current job is welding anti-aircraft weapons and machine guns into the beds of pickup trucks. Such gun-trucks are the workhorses of the rebel fighters, and he and his co-workers have churned them out at a rate of around one a day for the past three months. His volunteer team of six includes three experienced welders, but also a former math teacher with a knack for fixing machines.
> 
> Gadhafi's troops are still better equipped, trained and financed, though weakened by five months of NATO airstrikes. Earlier on in the uprising that began in February, regime loyalists managed to repel every advance by the eastern rebels out of the Benghazi and they could still push back the western mountain rebels.
> 
> For now, the offensive has brought the biggest successes for the rebels in months. On Saturday, rebels fought their way into one of their key targets, the strategic city of Zawiya, only 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli, battling Gadhafi forces in the streets as many residents joined the rebel ranks.
> 
> The rebels are pushing down from Zintan and other towns in the Nafusa Mountains into the coastal plain and  they hope  on to the capital, Tripoli.
> 
> The fighters, though poorly trained, say they have learned to avoid mistakes that plagued their efforts on the eastern front. In the east, fighters would charge ahead in furious advances, then retreat pell-mell when hit by Gadhafi's artillery and rockets.
> 
> The eastern and western rebels appear to coordinate their moves only loosely, hampered by the distance and difficulties of contact and communications with Gadhafi forces holding the middle ground between them.
> 
> The western rebels are trying to move more cautiously than the eastern rebels did. As they advanced the past week, they set up rear defensive positions, erecting earth walls and deploying tanks, to fall back to if necessary.
> 
> "If we go step by step, slowly, it is better than if we hurry and return back," said Col. Jumma Ibrahim, a rebel spokesman in the mountains.
> 
> Still, old habits die hard. Some of the rebels who advanced to Zawiya's edge Saturday charged into the center of the city, vowing to liberate it, only to be ambushed by Gadhafi forces. However, by Sunday, the rebels had consolidated positions in Zawiya.
> 
> The people of the Nafusa Mountains, many of them from Libya's long-oppressed ethnic Berber minority, were quick to rise up against Gadhafi when anti-regime protests spread across the country in February. Aided by topography  the plateau towers over the Mediterranean coastal plain  rebels were able to push back regime troops from the string of towns tucked into the mountain after months of shelling and siege.



Libya War: Rebels Claim Most Successful Advance In Months


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: U.N. Envoy Meets With Regime And Rebels 








> ZAWIYA, Libya  The United Nations' special envoy for Libya said Tuesday that he was meeting with representatives of both sides of the conflict, days after rebels made a significant advance that brought them within 30 miles of Moammar Gadhafi's stronghold in the capital Tripoli.
> 
> Abdel-Elah al-Khatib, Jordan's former foreign minister, arrived in the Tunisian capital Tunis on Monday for the meetings with representatives of both Gadhafi and the rebels. He said there were no direct negotiations as he met the two sides separately in the neighboring country. A Tunisian security official said al-Khatib might also meet with a representative of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. That envoy has been on the Tunisian isle of Djerba for the past days.
> 
> Back in Libya, a rebel advance over the weekend into the strategic city of Zawiya on the Mediterranean coast, just 30 miles from Tripoli, put the opposition force in the strongest position since the 6-month-old civil war began to attack the capital. Residents were fleeing Tripoli in long lines of cars, fearing the fighting would soon reach them.
> 
> The Obama administration said Monday that the U.S. was encouraged by the rebel advances and hoped they had broken a monthslong stalemate with Gadhafi's forces.
> 
> In a sign of the regime's growing distress, U.S. defense officials said Libyan government forces tapped into their stores of Scud missiles this weekend, firing one for the first time in the half-year conflict with rebels. No one was hurt. The missile was fired toward a second front line in the east of the country around the town of Brega.
> 
> The missile launch was detected by U.S. forces shortly after midnight Sunday and the Scud landed in the desert about 50 miles (80 kilometers) outside Brega, said one U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss military operations. It was launched about 50 miles (80 kilometers) east of Sirte, a city on the Mediterranean coast about 230 miles (370 kilometers) east of Tripoli. Sirte is Gadhafi's hometown and a bastion of support for him.
> 
> Noting that Scuds are not precision guided missiles, officials said they couldn't tell if Brega was the target.
> 
> On Tuesday, rebels and Gadhafi forces fought for control of Zawiya on a main road leading from Tunisia in the west to Tripoli. Rebels are trying to cut off two major supply routes into the capital from Tunisia in the west and another in the south. The routes are critical with NATO imposing a no-fly zone over Libya. Rebels said Monday they also cut oil pipelines from Zawiya to Tripoli. Oil-rich Libya's only functioning refineries are in Zawiya.
> 
> Medics at a field hospital on the outskirts of Zawiya said that 15 people were killed Tuesday in an artillery strike, including a woman and a child.
> 
> On the second front in the east, NATO planes could be heard overhead in Brega as rebels patrolled a ghost town. Furniture and clothing were strewn all over the residential compound, and many houses were broken into, their windows shattered and walls pocked with bullet holes.



Libya: U.N. Envoy Meets With Regime And Rebels


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya War: Rebels Battle For Zawiya Refinery 








> ZAWIYA, Libya  Rebels battled Moammar Gadhafi loyalists for control over Libya's only functioning oil refinery in the western city of Zawiya Wednesday, as the opposition tried to cut off fuel supplies to the regime's stronghold of Tripoli.
> 
> Rebel fighter Ramadan Keshada said his forces control parts of the refinery complex in the city's north on the Mediterranean coast, while some regime troops and civilian workers remain inside. He said rebels and regime forces clashed there on Tuesday, then the opposition fighters pulled out at nightfall and made a new push in the daylight.
> 
> An Associated Press photographer entered the refinery with the rebels and heard sniper fire.
> 
> The Libyan rebels made a dramatic advance over the weekend out of their bases in the western mountains near the border with Tunisia into Zawiya, just 30 miles from the capital Tripoli. They took control of parts of the city but have been fighting fierce battles with Gadhafi's forces to hold their ground and take more territory.
> 
> The rebel advance is tightening the noose around Tripoli. The fighters are closing in on the capital from the west and the south, while NATO controls the seas off Tripoli, which sits on the Mediterranean coast. Hundreds of miles away from the capital, the opposition is in control of most of the eastern half of the country, and have a transitional leadership council in their de facto capital of Benghazi.
> 
> Osama Arousi, a rebel spokesman in Zawiya, told the AP the gas pipeline from Zawiya to Tripoli has been cut off by the rebels. The rebels claimed to have cut the pipelines earlier in the week as well.
> 
> He said Gadhafi's forces have shut the gate of the residential compound for refinery workers and their families. Many of the workers were evacuated early in the civil war that started in February.
> 
> An Associated Press reporter in Zawiya saw three pickup tricks loaded with fighters speeding toward the refinery.
> 
> The capture of the 120,000 barrel per day refinery in Zawiya is more a symbolic coup for the rebels than one that has a major impact on Gadhafi's ability to secure fuel, analysts said.
> 
> The flow of crude to the refinery from fields in the southwest of Libya had largely been halted since midsummer and the refinery was believed to be running at about one-third of its normal capacity, drawing mainly on crude oil that was in its storage tanks. But Zawiya mostly produced fuel oil, versus gasoline, which Gadhafi was trucking in mainly from Tunisia and, to a lesser extent, Algeria.
> 
> "In that sense, it's more significant that they (the rebels) have got control of the roads than the refinery," said John Hamilton, a Libya energy expert with Cross-Border Information and a contributing editor of Africa Energy. "Strategically, that's a more important gain for the rebels. Having control of the roads makes it much harder for Gadhafi to get the petrol he needs."



Libya War: Rebels Battle For Zawiya Refinery


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Making Plans To Leave Libya, NBC Reports 



> Embattled Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi may be preparing to flee the country within days, according to NBC News.
> 
> U.S. officials told NBC that intelligence reports suggest Gaddafi is in the process of making plans to evacuate from Libya with his family. The reports indicate he may be headed to Tunisia, where it is possible he will be granted exile.
> 
> At least seven loud blasts were heard in Tripoli early Friday morning as bombs fell in the vicinity of Gaddafi's main headquarters of Bab al-Aziziya.
> 
> On Tuesday, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the Libyan leader's days appeared to be numbered. "Gaddafi's forces are weakened," he said.
> 
> Last week, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon offered sharp criticism of the situation in Libya, saying he was "deeply concerned by reports of the unacceptably large number of civilian casualties."



Gaddafi Making Plans To Leave Libya, NBC Reports


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Overtake Tripoli As Gaddafi Regime Crumbles








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- Euphoric Libyan rebels took control of most of Tripoli in a lightning advance Sunday, celebrating the victory in Green Square, the symbolic heart of Moammar Gadhafi's regime. Gadhafi's defenders quickly melted away as his 42-year rule crumbled, but the leader's whereabouts were unknown and pockets of resistance remained.
> 
> State TV broadcast Gadhafi's bitter pleas for Libyans to defend his regime. Opposition fighters captured his son and one-time heir apparent, Seif al-Islam, who along with his father faces charges of crimes against humanity at the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands. Another son was under house arrest.
> 
> "It's over, frizz-head," chanted hundreds of jubilant men and women massed in Green Square, using a mocking nickname of the curly-haired Gadhafi. The revelers fired shots in the air, clapped and waved the rebels' tricolor flag. Some set fire to the green flag of Gadhafi's regime and shot holes in a poster with the leader's image.
> 
> The startling rebel breakthrough, after a long deadlock in Libya's 6-month-old civil war, was the culmination of a closely coordinated plan by rebels, NATO and anti-Gadhafi residents inside Tripoli, rebel leaders said. Rebel fighters from the west swept over 20 miles (30 kilometers) in a matter of hours Sunday, taking town after town and overwhelming a major military base as residents poured out to cheer them. At the same time, Tripoli residents secretly armed by rebels rose up.
> 
> When rebels reached the gates of Tripoli, the special battalion entrusted by Gadhafi with guarding the capital promptly surrendered. The reason: Its commander, whose brother had been executed by Gadhafi years ago, was secretly loyal to the rebellion, a senior rebel official Fathi al-Baja told The Associated Press.
> 
> Al-Baja, the head of the rebels' political committee, said the opposition's National Transitional Council had been working on the offensive for the past three months, coordinating with NATO and rebels within Tripoli. Sleeper cells were set up in the capital, armed by rebel smugglers. On Thursday and Friday, NATO intensified strikes inside the capital, and on Saturday, the sleeper cells began to rise up.
> 
> President Barack Obama said Libya is "slipping from the grasp of a tyrant" and urged Gadhafi to relinquish power to prevent more bloodshed.
> 
> "The future of Libya is now in the hands of the Libyan people," Obama said in a statement from Martha's Vineyard, where he's vacationing. He promised to work closely with rebels.
> 
> By the early hours of Monday, opposition fighters controlled most of the capital. The seizure of Green Square held profound symbolic value - the plaza was the scene of pro-Gadhafi rallies organized by the regime almost every night, and Gadhafi delivered speeches to his loyalists from the historic Red Fort that overlooks the square. Rebels and Tripoli residents set up checkpoints around the city, though pockets of pro-Gadhafi fighters remained. In one area, AP reporters with the rebels were stopped and told to take a different route because of regime snipers nearby.
> 
> Abdel-Hakim Shugafa, a 26-year-old rebel fighter, said he was stunned by how easy it was. He saw only about 20 minutes of gunbattles as he and his fellow fighters pushed into the capital at nightfall.
> 
> "I expect Libya to be better," said Shugafa, part of a team guarding the National Bank near Green Square. "He (Gadhafi) oppressed everything in the country - health and education. Now we can build a better Libya."
> 
> In a series of angry and defiant audio messages broadcast on state television, Gadhafi called on his supporters to march in the streets of the capital and "purify it" of "the rats." He was not shown in the messages.
> 
> His defiance raised the possibility of a last-ditch fight over the capital, home to 2 million people. Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim claimed the regime has "thousands and thousands of fighters" and vowed: "We will fight. We have whole cities on our sides. They are coming en masse to protect Tripoli to join the fight."
> 
> But it seemed that significant parts of Gadhafi's regime and military were abandoning him. His prime minister, Al-Baghdadi Al-Mahmoudi, fled to a hotel in the Tunisian city of Djerba, said Guma el-Gamaty, a London-based rebel spokesman.
> 
> NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Gadhafi's regime was "clearly crumbling" and that the time to create a new democratic Libya has arrived.
> 
> It was a stunning reversal for Gadhafi, who earlier this month had seemed to have a firm grip on his stronghold in the western part of Libya, despite months of NATO airstrikes on his military. Rebels had been unable to make any advances for weeks, bogged down on the main fronts with regime troops in the east and center of the country.



Libya Rebels Overtake Tripoli As Gaddafi Regime Crumbles


----------



## High_Gravity

China: We Will Respect Libya's Choices' 









> China will respect the choice of the Libyan people and hopes that the situation there stabilizes quickly, the country's Foreign Ministry has said today as rebel forces battle for Tripoli.
> 
> The Chinese government may maintain publicly that it doesn't interfere in other nations' internal affairs, but it has been careful to hedge its bets over the unfolding civil conflict in Libya. It surprised many, for example, when it announced in June that it would receive envoys from the anti-government Libyan rebels, a shift from its usual position of only engaging with the recognized governments of other states on political issues. This followed the equally surprising move by Beijing to abstain from a UN vote on military action, rather than vetoing it.



China:


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan rebels tighten grip on Tripoli








> Reporting from Cairo Rebels pouring in from the countryside strengthened their grip on much of the Libyan capital, setting up checkpoints and securing buildings even as longtime leader Moammar Kadafi evaded their grasp and pockets of his loyalists continued to put up fierce resistance.
> 
> Heavy fighting rumbled around Kadafi's Bab Azizia compound in southern Tripoli, and throughout the capital rebels said they had sustained heavy losses. The opposition forces claimed control of about 80% of the city, which was at once jubilant with waving flags and precarious with the rattle of gunfire.
> 
> Attention quickly focused on how the Transitional National Council, the rebels' governing body, would impose order on a fractious tribal nation battered by six months of revolt. The rebels are prone to divisions and Western officials worry that power struggles and the desire for revenge may threaten stability much as they did after the fall of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
> 
> But the rebels' sense of momentum suffered a blow early Tuesday when Kadafi's son and onetime heir apparent, Seif Islam, appeared at a Tripoli hotel that remained in the hands of Kadafi's forces. The rebels had claimed Sunday that they had captured him. Another son, Mohammed, was reported to have escaped rebel custody.
> 
> Kadafi's tanks and snipers took strategic positions in several Tripoli neighborhoods. Still, it was uncertain if the mercurial man who referred to himself as Brother Leader and ruled the nation for nearly 42 years could muster a potent counterattack.
> 
> NATO indicated that it would continue its airstrikes against the Libyan leader's army. That poses a high risk of civilian casualties in Tripoli, a dense urban landscape with more than 1.6 million people. But the pressing question for rebel leaders and NATO commanders was Kadafi's whereabouts. Unlike on previous days, the Libyan leader released no new audio broadcasts.
> 
> In comments to reporters, Seif Islam said his father remained in Tripoli.
> 
> "We do not know if he is inside or outside Libya," Mustafa Abdul Jalil, the head of the rebel government, said during a news conference in the eastern city of Benghazi, the insurgents' de facto capital.
> 
> Underscoring the importance of that question in a country emblazoned with Kadafi's image and shaped by his personality, one Tripoli resident said: "We cannot feel peace. We cannot feel victory until we see Kadafi captured."
> 
> East of Tripoli, rebels said Kadafi's forces were retreating from Port Brega on the coastal highway toward Surt, Kadafi's birthplace and tribal stronghold. Kadafi's forces reportedly fired a Scud missile from near Surt on Monday; the target was unclear.
> 
> The rebels received support from governments around the world, including Egypt, which is struggling to build a democracy after its revolution overthrew President Hosni Mubarak in February. The United Nations said it was organizing a meeting with the Arab League and African Union to help Libya emerge from Kadafi's legacy.



Libya rebels tighten grip on Tripoli - latimes.com


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## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Attack Gaddafi Compound 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- Fierce fighting erupted around Moammar Gadhafi's main military compound in Tripoli on Tuesday, hours after the Libyan leader's son and heir apparent turned up free to thwart Libyan rebel claims he had been captured and rally supporters.
> 
> The surprise appearance of Seif al-Islam energized regime loyalists and underlined the potential for Gadhafi, whose whereabouts remain unknown, to strike back even as his grip on power seemed to be slipping fast.
> 
> Street battles between pro-Gadhafi troops and rebels were reported in several parts of the city, and the mood turned from one of euphoria to confusion and fear a day after opposition fighters swept into the capital with relative ease, claiming to have most of it under their control.
> 
> Thick clouds of gray and white smoke filled the Tripoli sky as heavy gunfire and explosions shook several districts of the city of 2 million people.
> 
> NATO warned the situation in Tripoli remains very dangerous and promised the alliance will continue bombing forces loyal to the 69-year-old Libyan leader if they keep fighting.
> 
> "Snipers, shelling, missiles could do much damage, but they can't change the course of history or the outcome of this campaign," spokesman Col. Roland Lavoie told reporters at a news conference in Naples, Italy.
> 
> Some of the heaviest fighting was around Gadhafi's Bab al-Aziziya main compound and military barracks, with both sides battling it out with heavy machine-guns, mortars and anti-aircraft guns. The sprawling complex, heavily damaged by NATO airstrikes, emerged as one of the centers of government resistance since tanks rolled out Monday and fired at rebels trying to get in.
> 
> Associated Press reporters at the scene said the two sides were positioned across either end of an empty field outside the complex on Tuesday.
> 
> The standoff occurred after Seif al-Islam, with a full beard and wearing an olive-green T-shirt and camouflage trousers, took a group of foreign journalists to the area as part of a tour aimed at showing the regime still has support. At Bab al-Aziziya, at least a hundred men were waiting in lines for guns being distributed to volunteers to defend the regime. Seif al-Islam shook hands with supporters, beaming and flashing the "V" for victory sign.
> 
> "We are here. This is our country. This is our people, and we live here, and we die here," he told AP Television News. "And we are going to win, because the people are with us. That's why were are going to win. Look at them - look at them, in the streets, everywhere!"
> 
> It was not clear whether Gadhafi's son, who turned up at the Rixos hotel, where about 30 foreign journalists have been staying under the close watch of regime minders, had escaped from rebel custody or never been captured in the first place. His arrest was announced on Monday by both the rebels and the Netherlands-based International Criminal Court, which has indicted him and his father.
> 
> ICC spokesman Fadi El Abdallah said the court never received official confirmation from Libya's rebel authorities about the arrest.
> 
> The rebel leadership - which had said Seif al-Islam was captured without giving details on where he was held - seemed stunned. A rebel spokesman, Sadeq al-Kabir, had no explanation and could only say, "This could be all lies."
> 
> He also said another captured Gadhafi son, Mohammed, had escaped house arrest. Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, head of the rebel National Transitional Council, announced the detention of a third Gadhafi son, al-Saadi, on Monday.
> 
> Riding in a white limousine amid a convoy of armored SUVs, Seif al-Islam took reporters on a drive through parts of the city still under the regime's control, including Bab al-Aziziya, saying, "We are going to hit the hottest spots in Tripoli." AP reporters were among the journalists who saw him and went on the tour.
> 
> The tour also covered the district around the Rixos hotel and streets full of armed Gadhafi backers, controlled by roadblocks, and into the Gadhafi stronghold neighborhood Bu Slim.
> 
> When asked about the ICC's claim that he was arrested by rebels, he told reporters: "The ICC can go to hell," and added "We are going to break the backbone of the rebels."
> 
> Rebels said Monday that they controlled most of Tripoli, but they faced pockets of fierce resistance from regime loyalists firing mortars and anti-aircraft guns. Rebel spokesman Mohammed Abdel-Rahman, who was in Tripoli, said the "danger is still there" as long as the longtime Libyan leader remains on the run.
> 
> He warned that pro-Gadhafi brigades are positioned on Tripoli's outskirts and could "be in the middle of the city in half an hour."



Libya Rebels Attack Gaddafi Compound


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## High_Gravity

Libya Post-Conflict Planning Has Major Western Support 








> Even as fierce fighting still roils Tripoli, the capital of Libya's beleaguered dictator Muammar Gaddafi, new information is emerging about the major role played by outside civilian and military groups in aiding the rebel military and its transitional government.
> 
> On Tuesday, at a surprise press conference in Benghazi, the rebel capital in eastern Libya, Turkey's foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu told reporters that his country had secretly funded the rebel's National Transitional Council (NTC) with more than $200 million over the past month.
> 
> "We won't accept that any part of Libya be deprived of security and stability," Davutoglu added, promising that NATO countries would continue to provide protection and assistance to the rebel leadership in the coming weeks.
> 
> The United States formally recognized the NTC in July as the formal "governing authority" for Libya, granting it access to embassies around the world and, eventually, some $37 billion in frozen assets.
> 
> But even as the rebel fighters seemed poised to overtake Tripoli, American officials told the Wall Street Journal that they would proceed cautiously before actually releasing any of the funds.
> 
> But Western governments have contributed to the rebel effort in other ways.
> 
> According to reports in the American and British press, French and British special operatives have been on the ground with the rebels, and played a major role in coordinating the final strategic push into Tripoli.
> 
> More recently, the Guardian reported that, ever since Muammar Gaddafi's son, Saif -- once claimed to be in rebel detention -- resurfaced Monday night in Tripoli, NATO forces have taken the lead in quietly preparing for what they hope will be a final strike against the portions of the city still under loyalist control.
> 
> After months of assistance from private military contractors, the rebels have now been joined by active-duty British special operatives, the paper said.
> 
> Meanwhile, in Benghazi, civilian advisers with one American organization presently advising the NTC report that the leadership there optimistically projects a quick resolution to any lingering conflict in Tripoli.
> 
> "All remain convinced that Gaddafi's end will come, whether today or in the coming days," the civil society group wrote on Monday in a report obtained by The Huffington Post.
> 
> "There is a perception that Tripoli will stabilize in the near future, just as calm returned to Benghazi after [the] pro-Gaddafi force's retreat in March."
> 
> Several observers of the Libya operation have expressed concerns that the post-conflict landscape was not sufficiently mapped out, or that any plans would prove difficult to execute in the chaotic days and months after Gaddafi's fall.
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, civil society and U.S. government advisers sought to counter this perception, with one senior American official telling CNN that the NTC's plans, as reviewed by the U.S. government, were "quite detailed," and included specific programs for public services and democratic governance.
> 
> But, the official acknowledged, the longer-term fate of the nation still leaves cause for worry.
> 
> "They have set up a timeline, but it's getting from today through Gadhafi's actual departure altogether, to where they're all sitting in Tripoli implementing a transition -- that's the period I'm a bit concerned about," the official told CNN. "I think that they are doing a good job, but we'll just have to see. They have lots of good stuff on paper but it's translating it from paper into practice that remains to be seen, particularly in the initial period."
> 
> The American civil society group in Benghazi reported this week that Libyans engaged in the governance with whom they met disputed reports about substantial divisions and tribal factions within the NTC, but conceded that the new government would face significant challenges in demobilizing irregular fighters.
> 
> "Many combatants are students and workers who will return to their daily lives," the report said. "However, it is possible that some former soldiers will contribute to potential instability."
> 
> The NTC is said to be working on plans to help incorporate the young soldiers into the regular army, where they could be properly trained, particularly on human and civil rights matters.
> 
> The civil society group also said that youth groups in Benghazi were particularly looking forward to engaging with their peers in Tripoli, something they had not previously been able to do. Outreach with citizen groups in NTC-controlled parts of the country to explain details of the transition were "not sufficient," the report said, citing a local activist.



Libya Post-Conflict Planning Has Major Western Support


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Come Under Fire In Gaddafi Compound 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  A defiant Moammar Gadhafi vowed Wednesday to fight on "until victory or martyrdom," as rebel fighters tried to end scattered attacks by regime loyalists in the nervous capital.
> 
> The rebels say they have now taken control of nearly all of Tripoli, but sporadic gunfire could still be heard Wednesday, and Gadhafi loyalists fired shells and assault rifles at fighters who had captured the Libyan leader's personal compound one day earlier.
> 
> The streets of the city were still largely deserted Wednesday, scattered with debris, broken glass and other remnants of fighting, while rebel fighters manned checkpoints every few hundred yards.
> 
> Rebel leaders, meanwhile, made their first moves to set up a new government in the capital. During Libya's six-month civil war, opposition leaders had established their interim administration, the National Transitional Council, in the eastern city of Benghazi, which fell under rebel control shortly after the outbreak of widespread anti-regime protests in February.
> 
> "Members of the council are now moving one by one from Benghazi to Tripoli," said Mansour Seyf al-Nasr, the Libyan opposition's new ambassador to France. He said that Tripoli is "secure and our guys are checking all the areas."
> 
> The deputy rebel chief, Mahmoud Jibril, was to meet later Wednesday with French President Nicholas Sarkozy, one of the earliest and staunchest supporters of the Libyan opposition, along with British Prime Minister David Cameron.
> 
> Even as his 42-year-old regime was crumbling around him, Gadhafi vowed not to surrender. In an audio message early Wednesday, he called on residents of the Libyan capital and loyal tribesmen across his North African nation to free Tripoli from the "devils and traitors" who have overrun it.
> 
> The broadcast came a day after hundreds of Libyan rebels stormed Gadhafi's fortress-like Bab al-Aziziya compound in the capital but found no sign of the longtime leader. Late Sunday, the rebels entered Tripoli, pouring into the Mediterranean metropolis of some 2 million people in a stunning breakthrough.



Libya Rebels Come Under Fire In Gaddafi Compound


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## High_Gravity

Libya Weapons Stockpiles: Officials Fear Country's Weapons Could Fall Into The Wrong Hands 








> WASHINGTON  No one can be sure who controls the Libyan government's weapons stockpiles, a stew of deadly chemicals, raw nuclear material and some 30,000 shoulder-fired rockets that officials fear could fall into terrorists' hands in the chaos of Moammar Gadhafi's downfall or afterward.
> 
> One immediate worry, U.S. intelligence and military officials say, is that Gadhafi might use the weapons to make a last stand. But officials also face the troubling prospect that the material, which was left under Gadhafi's control by a U.S.-backed disarmament pact, could be obtained by al-Qaida or other militants even after a rebel victory is secured.
> 
> The main stockpile of mustard gas and other chemicals, stored in corroding drums, is at a site southeast of Tripoli. Mustard gas can cause severe blistering and death. A cache of hundreds of tons of raw uranium yellowcake is stored at a small nuclear facility east of the capital.
> 
> Weapons demolition teams hired by the State Department have located and destroyed some of the anti-aircraft rocket systems in rebel-held parts of the country.
> 
> U.S. and allied officials say chemical and nuclear stockpiles appear to be still under the control of what's left of the Libyan government despite rebel military advances into the capital. That may or may not be reassuring. It depends on whether Gadhafi loyalists, increasingly desperate, adhere to international agreements not to use or move the material.
> 
> The State Department has also sent experts to Libya to confer with rebel leaders and Libya's neighbors about abiding by those same compacts and beefing up border security to prevent weapons from being smuggled out.
> 
> State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Tuesday the U.S. is working to ensure that "the governing forces in Libya have full command and control of any WMD or any security assets that the state might have had." Jamie F. Mannina, spokesman for the State Department's Bureau of Arms Control, Verification and Compliance, said Libya's known chemical weapons storage facilities have been monitored since the start of the civil war.
> 
> Still, many U.S. officials question whether NATO has enough people on the ground to make sure the material remains secure if Libyan security forces flee their posts. NATO's decision to limit its participation in the conflict has kept the coalition's investment in blood and treasure to a minimum. But that has not helped the cause of nonproliferation.
> 
> With the battle for the capital Tripoli still unfolding, military advisers from Britain, France, Italy and Qatar are feeding intelligence to the rebels and NATO bombers on the whereabouts of the enemy. That has left U.S. intelligence relying primarily on military drone, satellite and spy plane reports to track Gadhafi's arsenal.
> 
> "No one seems clear" how many of the estimated 30,000 anti-aircraft rockets, and other stockpiles still remain after six months of pounding by air strikes, according to a U.S. official who has been following the Libyan events. Officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence.
> 
> As for chemical agents, said British Embassy spokesman Hetty Crist, officials are concerned about the security of some 11 metric tons of mustard gas.
> 
> Crist said the Libyan stocks are "under guard in secure and remote locations" at the moment and cannot be used easily for warfare because they are not weaponized.
> 
> Despite dismantling much of his nuclear program after making a deal with the Bush administration, Gadhafi has enough weaponry  if he can still reach it  to try to sell to militants.
> 
> "There are still going to be a lot of Gadhafi loyalists who could hijack the weapons supplies and use them for an insurgency like Iraq," said Democratic Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland, a member of the House Intelligence Committee.
> 
> And if the material goes unguarded, it could be seized by al-Qaida militant sympathizers, he said in an interview Tuesday. "A single rocket can do damage," he said, recalling the downing of a Chinook helicopter Aug. 5 in Afghanistan from a rocket-propelled grenade fired by the Taliban, killing all 38 troops on board.
> 
> The State Department has spent $3 million on two international weapons abatement teams charged with finding and destroying the antiaircraft systems along with other lethal munitions and landmines.
> 
> The teams have demolished some of the shoulder-launched antiaircraft missile systems called MANPADS, including nearly 30 Russian SA-7 launchers, according to Alexander Griffiths, director of operations for the Swiss Foundation for Mine Action, one of the abatement groups.
> 
> But the teams are only scouring rebel-held battle sites and arms depots, and are not sent into combat hot zones.
> 
> Libya possesses a variety of leftover, aging weapons of mass destruction. Libya agreed to halt its WMD programs in 2003, under economic pressure from U.S. and Western embargoes. Gadhafi surrendered the hardware for his nuclear program and let the U.S. remove about 11.5 pounds of weapons-grade uranium from a nuclear research reactor near Tripoli in 2009.
> 
> But there are still some 500 to 900 metric tons of raw uranium yellowcake stored in drums at Libya's lone nuclear reactor, east of Tripoli. The supply is less of a worry for U.S. officials because it requires heavy industrial refining and enrichment before it could be used as an explosive. But it could be sold for a large profit to those more capable of building a nuclear weapon.
> 
> Gadhafi also had extensive chemical weapons, which his forces used against Libya's southern neighbor, Chad, in 1987.



Libya Weapons Stockpiles: Officials Fear Country's Weapons Could Fall Into The Wrong Hands


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Rebels And Regime Battle For Control In The East



> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libyan rebels battled forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi on the streets of Tripoli Thursday, with the clatter of machine gunfire echoing through the chaotic capital, while the opposition tried to assert control over the oil-rich country even as the longtime leader remained at large.
> 
> An intense gunbattle erupted outside the Corinthia hotel where many foreign journalists are staying, as about a dozen rebels with machine guns and an anti-aircraft gun fired on what appeared to be loyalist gunmen shooting from nearby high-rise buildings.
> 
> The rebels are struggling to take complete control of Tripoli, four days after they swept into the capital and sparked the collapse of Gadhafi's regime. The autocrat has refused to surrender and has vowed from hiding to fight on "until victory or martyrdom."
> 
> The rebel leadership has offered a $2 million bounty on Gadhafi's head, and British Defense Secretary Liam Fox said Thursday that NATO was helping in the search for the longtime dictator.
> 
> Fox told BBC Radio 4 that NATO was "providing intelligence and reconnaissance assets to help in the hunt," and had been heavily active in carrying out overnight airstrikes against Gadhafi loyalists, but refused to say if British special forces were involved.
> 
> In Brussels, a NATO official said some airstrikes were launched because Gadhafi's forces had been detected trying to restore some of their damaged weapons systems, including surface-to-air missiles, which the official called a "huge threat" to alliance aircraft and humanitarian aid flights.
> 
> The official could not be identified under NATO rules. A months-long NATO air campaign, which included about 7,500 attacks on Gadhafi's forces, was key to helping the rebels sweep through the country.
> 
> Rebels say one of their key targets now is Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, about 250 miles (400 kilometers) from Tripoli, but acknowledged that capturing that city would not be easy because Gadhafi's fellow tribesmen were expected to put up a fierce fight. Opposition leaders have said they were trying to negotiate a peaceful surrender of the city.
> 
> Fawzi Abu Ketf, deputy defense minister of the rebel National Transitional Council, said fighting was raging Thursday outside Bin Jawad, 400 miles (650 kilometers) south of Tripoli, but he had no details. Gadhafi loyalists ambushed rebels advancing toward the city on Wednesday, killing at least 20 of them.
> 
> Wednesday's attack was carried out by pro-Gadhafi forces who had retreated from the oil city of Ras Lanouf after rebels captured that city earlier this week, said Ahmed Zeleity, a rebel commander.
> 
> The ambush showed that pro-regime forces retain the ability to strike back even as the rebels tighten their control over the nation's capital.
> 
> Rebels also have seized several parts of Sebha, another Gadhafi stronghold still holding out, including the main commercial Gamal Abdel-Nasser street, according to rebel official Adel al-Zintani, who is in daily telephone contact with rebel commanders in the desert city.
> 
> He said mercenaries from sub-Saharan African nations who had been paid by Gadhafi have fled the city, but loyal soldiers were continuing to hold firm.
> 
> Ketf said another challenge was the need to supply troops at the front. "The supply lines will be too long and we are short of funds and supplies," he said.
> 
> The humanitarian situation there is increasingly difficult, he said, with lengthy power and water outages.
> 
> In Milan, Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi said Italy was preparing to release $505 million in frozen assets in Italian banks, calling it the first payment. Italy, Libya's former colonial ruler and biggest trading partner, has not disclosed the total Libyan assets held there.
> 
> Berlusconi made the announcement after meeting with the leader of Libya's rebel Cabinet, the second stop on a European diplomatic tour by Mahmoud Jibril aimed at securing the release of billions of dollars in frozen Libyan assets.
> 
> The Libyan opposition says they urgently need at least $5 billion of those assets to pay state salaries, maintain vital services and repair critical oil facilities.
> 
> The U.N. Security Council, meanwhile, is preparing to vote this week on a resolution that would release $1.5 billion in Libyan assets in U.S. banks that the world body froze to thwart Gadhafi. Analysts estimate as much as $110 billion is frozen in banks worldwide.



Libya: Rebels And Regime Battle For Control In The East (LIVE UPDATES)


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## High_Gravity

NATO Joins Hunt For Gaddafi: UK








> LONDON  NATO intelligence and reconnaissance assets are being used to try to hunt down Moammar Gadhafi, the elusive Libyan dictator.
> 
> British Defense Secretary Liam Fox said NATO was playing an active role in efforts to locate Gadhafi, whose whereabouts are unknown. Rebels stormed his compound in the Libyan capital of Tripoli on Tuesday, but he was not there.
> 
> The rebel leadership has offered a $2 million bounty on Gadhafi's head, but the autocrat has refused to surrender, fleeing to an unknown destination as his 42-year regime crumbles in the North African nation. Speaking to a local Libyan television channel Wednesday, apparently by phone, Gadhafi vowed from hiding to fight on "until victory or martyrdom."
> 
> Fox declined to confirm Thursday whether troops from Britain's elite Special Air Service or Special Boat Service were involved in attempts to locate Gadhafi  but acknowledged that NATO has a key role.
> 
> "We never comment about special forces, not least because if we were to use them under those circumstances it would compromise their security," Fox told BBC Radio 4.
> 
> European officials have confirmed that small numbers of British, French and other special forces have been working inside Libya in recent months.
> 
> "It is fair to say, however, that NATO is providing intelligence and reconnaissance assets to help in the hunt for Col. Gadhafi, and indeed the remnants of the regime," Fox said. "Last night, NATO was more active than we have been in recent days in terms of air activity against the resisting elements."
> 
> The United States is the largest contributor to NATO, but the Obama administration has repeatedly said it will not place U.S. military personnel on the ground in Libya. The Pentagon said earlier this week that the Libyan rebel military advance into Tripoli had not changed that policy.
> 
> However, U.S. drone aircraft have been helping the Libyan rebels gather intelligence for months, and U.S. intelligence agencies including the CIA have been working with contacts they developed in Libya before the uprising began in the spring.
> 
> Rebels say Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, which is 250 miles (400 kilometers) east of Tripoli on the Mediterranean Sea, is now a key target. Mahmoud Jibril, the head of the opposition government, said Wednesday during talks in Paris that Gadhafi could be y other place."
> 
> The French magazine Paris-Match reported Thursday that the rebels nearly caught Gadhafi on Wednesday but he got away and is still somewhere in Tripoli. The report cited an unnamed "reliable source" as saying a cell of rebel and Arab intelligence services located a plain, modest house in central Tripoli where Gadhafi had spent at least one night.
> 
> The report said Libyan rebels then stormed the house, but Gadhafi had already left. It said there was some unidentified proof that Gadhafi had been there.
> 
> Britain previously provided a small number of military advisers  thought to be around 12  to help organize Libya's rebel forces. France and Italy also sent similar troops to assist the anti-Gadhafi forces with training and logistics.
> 
> A Western diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said special forces from some NATO nations  operating outside the alliance's command structure  may now be engaged in the hunt for Gadhafi.
> 
> U.S. aircraft accounted for most of the more than 20,200 sorties flown by NATO aircraft in the five-month war in Libya. The largest proportion were flights by American aerial tankers refueling allied strike planes, as well as AWACS and other surveillance aircraft.
> 
> European warplanes  mainly French and British  have flown the vast majority of the airstrike sorties, but U.S. armed drones and some jets  such as those tasked with radar-supressing Wild Weasel missions  have also participated.
> 
> In Brussels, a NATO spokeswoman declined to comment Thursday, saying only that the alliance does not discuss intelligence matters. "NATO does not target specific individuals," spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said.



NATO Joins Hunt For Gaddafi: UK


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## High_Gravity

The Hunt for the Gaddafis: Street to Street with the Rebel Fighters








> "Zenga zenga, dar dar!" ["Alley to alley, house to house."] That was the battle cry of Muammar Gaddafi and his sons when they unleashed their forces on the rebels six months ago. Now the phrase may be coming back to haunt the Gaddafis, if they are, in fact, hiding where the rebels believe they are.
> 
> On Thursday, closing in on a string of neighborhoods in central Tripoli, rebels often moved house to house through the narrow streets of Ghabour and Abu Salim  two of Gaddafi's last known strongholds in the Libyan capital. Taking cover behind walls and concrete barricades, groups of fighters from towns across the country dodged sniper fire and waged sporadic gun battles with often invisible assailants as they hunted for the now missing Libyan dictator and his family. "The problem is, we don't know where Gaddafi is," admitted Ali al-Abbas, a Swiss-Libyan dual national at midday. "But we know that a lot of the people who escaped from Bab al-Aziziyah went to Abu Salim. And they've waged significant resistance there. So that's why we think he might be there."
> 
> Bab al-Aziziyah is Gaddafi's vast, fortified compound in central Tripoli, which in the past two days has been transformed into ripe territory for both looting and tourism by the sundry forces of the National Transitional Council, the rival of the Gaddafi regime. But the surrounding areas were long ago designed as Gaddafi defensive strongholds, the fighters say. And these streets may be where Tripoli's longest and dirtiest battle plays out  if the worst hasn't already come. "They're very aggressive," says Mohamed, a fighter who was driving out of the neighborhood at sunset, amid fierce shelling. "That means they're fighting for something."
> 
> The Bab al-Aziziyah compound  massive on its own  was militarily and logistically run from the 77 Base across the street on Airport Road. But it was the adjacent neighborhoods of Abu Salim and Ghabour that Gaddafi used to house his extensive population of staff and supporters. And the ubiquitous green flags of the regime dotting the rooftops there provide the visual reminders  amid the sniper fire  that the battle is far from over.
> 
> But there are also signs that a ferocious battle has already been fought. Thursday marked the first day that journalists were able to enter Bab al-Aziziyah Square, a grassy traffic circle in the contested part of town, set between the compound and the 77 Base on one side, and Abu Salim and Ghabour on the other. At midday rebels set fire to a sprawling, ransacked camp that had served as a makeshift supply base and field hospital for Gaddafi loyalists in recent days. The fire, some said, served to mask the stench of decaying flesh.
> 
> And indeed, on a median near the circle, nine bloated bodies lay decomposing in the harsh sunlight. A team of ambulance workers said they believed that the bodies had been there for three days while fighting overwhelmed the area.
> 
> But there is strong evidence to suggest that a massacre took place there. A nearby field clinic  also part of the camp  contained more than 30 bodies. Mostly dressed in civilian clothes, they lay swollen and fly-covered, strewn over mattresses and dirt, many of them wearing bandages. Two, still on stretchers and hooked up to IVs inside a clinic tent, had been shot in the head. Another body lay on a stretcher inside an abandoned ambulance. The camp had been ransacked, with food, water bottles and medical supplies strewn about. And several of the other nine on the median had their hands bound in plastic ties behind their backs; the bullet wounds piercing their skulls, backs and chests.
> 
> The rebels say Gaddafi's forces did it. But it is still unclear why Gaddafi would have massacred the wounded at his own camp. The bodies had yet to be removed on Thursday, despite the presence of rebels in the area  the kind of treatment that Libyan rebels have typically only permitted for enemy dead. The antiregime fighters are adamant, however. "It was because they didn't like Gaddafi. So people inside the camp killed them  Gaddafi guys," says Mohanid Gomaa, 28, a fighter from Tripoli. "I live here. I saw everything," he adds.
> 
> Still, the scene could pose serious new questions about Libya's future  and its new leadership's commitment to democracy and human rights  as the rebels move to consolidate control of the capital. By Thursday evening, anti-Gaddafi fighters were manning checkpoints  in some places, every 100 m  throughout large swathes of Tripoli. In Souk al-Jomaa, one of the first neighborhoods to fall over the weekend, a number of shops had reopened and children played in the street. And in Green Square, where Gaddafi had famously gathered his supporters for dramatic demonstrations in recent months, families and rebels in cars paraded around the traffic circle producing an endless cacophony of celebratory honking and gunfire.



Read more: Libya: On the Hunt for the Gaddafis with the Rebels - TIME


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## High_Gravity

Gaddafi's Fleeing Mercenaries Describe the Collapse of the Regime








> Right from the start, Mario, an ethnic Croatian artillery specialist from Bosnia, suspected it was a lost cause.
> 
> "My men were mainly from the south [of Libya] and Chad, and there were a few others from countries south of Libya," said Mario, who spoke on condition that his last name not be published. A veteran of the wars of the former Yugoslavia, he had been hired by the Gaddafi regime to help fight the rebels and, later, NATO. "Discipline was bad, and they were too stupid to learn anything. But things were O.K. until the air strikes commenced. The other side was equally bad, if not worse. [Muammar] Gaddafi would have smashed the rebels had the West not intervened."
> 
> By early July, Mario said, more than 30% of the men under his command had deserted or defected to the rebel side. NATO missiles scored several direct hits on his forces, causing "significant casualties." At that point in the war, he said, "military hardware stopped having the role it [once did]. We had to use camouflage and avoid open spaces."
> 
> Away from the front, at the heart of the regime, mistrust and excess further undermined Gaddafi's hold on power, Mario said. "Life in [Gaddafi's] compound and shelters was so surreal, with partying, women, alcohol and drugs," said Mario, 41. "One of the relatives of Gaddafi took me to one of his villas where they offered me anything I wanted. I heard stories about people being shot for fun and forced to play Russian roulette while spectators were making bets, like in the movies."
> 
> Tension between two of Gaddafi's sons contributed to the sense that Gaddafi's cause was doomed. "I noticed profound rivalry between Gaddafi's sons," Mario said, speaking en route from the southern city of Sabha to Libya's border with Niger. "Once, there was almost an armed clash between Mohammed's and Saif [al-Islam]'s men. I saw one group interrogating the other at gunpoint, and then more of the other group arrived fully armed, and it was a standoff for several minutes, with both sides cursing each other."
> 
> Mario respected and liked Gaddafi's most prominent son, Saif al-Islam, who in 2009 threw himself a lavish 37th birthday party on the coast of the former Yugoslav republic of Montenegro, one of Europe's newest glamour spots for the superrich. The ties between the Gaddafi family and the former Yugoslavia stretch back to the days of Josep Broz Tito, Yugoslavia's storied communist leader, who was a friend and ally of Gaddafi's. Mario said that Gaddafi had hired several former Yugoslav fighters, most of them Serbs, to help him in his fight against NATO and the rebels. One by one, Mario said, these foreign advisers and commanders left Tripoli. Some senior Libyans joined them.
> 
> "I noticed that many Libyans pretended loyalty just out of fear and were just seeking a way to turn against [Gaddafi]," Mario said. "Many officers admitted to me they stood no chance against NATO, and one of them told me he was in touch with the people in Benghazi." Benghazi is the rebel stronghold in the east of the country.
> 
> Mario left Tripoli 12 days ago after receiving a warning from a comrade. "Two weeks ago, a friend who brought me here told me I should leave Tripoli, as things were going to rapidly change and that deals have been made," he said. He noticed Gaddafi's South African mercenaries beginning to leave. Mario decided with a fellow mercenary to flee Tripoli. "I tried to get ahold of Saif before that, but he was beyond reach," he said. "Later he called my companion to ask if we needed something and to say that they would win back all of Libya."



Read more: Libya: Ex-Gaddafi Mercenaries Describe Collapse of Regime - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

African Union: Libya Rebels Won't Be Recognized At This Time 








> ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia -- The African Union will not yet recognize Libyan rebels as the new government of Libya, South African President Jacob Zuma said Friday, rejecting calls for recognition from Libyan rebel leaders.
> 
> Zuma called for an immediate cease-fire and said the Libyan capital of Tripoli was not yet under full rebel control. He spoke as AU leaders met in the Ethiopian capital to discuss the next action they should take regarding Libya. Many African nations have long ties with Col. Moammar Gadhafi and the AU has had difficulty taking a unanimous stand.
> 
> "Fighting is still going on. That is the reality," said Zuma, who chairs the AU committee on Libya. "We can't say this is a legitimate (government) now."
> 
> He said the AU did not rule out pro- or anti-Gadhafi forces from taking part in a future Libyan government. African countries like Ethiopia and Nigeria that already recognized the rebels were free to do so and also support the AU position, he said.
> 
> The U.N. has urged African leaders to "encourage new leadership" in Libya.
> 
> "We must help the country's new leaders to establish an effective, legitimate government that represents and speaks for all the country's diverse people," U.N. deputy secretary general Asha Rose Migiro told AU leaders.
> 
> Earlier in the day, Mahmoud Jibril, the head of the rebel National Transitional Council, called for recognition from the AU and the urgent release of frozen Libyan assets, saying the government could face a "legitimacy crisis" if the Libyan people's demands are not met.
> 
> The Libyan opposition is setting up an interim government in the capital of Tripoli despite ongoing street battles. They hold almost all of the country and have already been recognized as the legitimate authority by most of the world.
> 
> Now the opposition needs says it urgently needs at least $5 billion in frozen assets to pay state salaries and maintain services in Libya, including areas still under Gadhafi's control. Funds are also needed for an army and a police force to restore order and confiscate arms, he said.
> 
> "If the services expected by the citizens are not met, we may be faced with a legitimacy crisis," Jibril said at a joint news conference with Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu.
> 
> Jibril was in Turkey to attend a meeting of the so-called "Contact Group" of some 30 countries leading efforts to stabilize Libya.



African Union: Libya Rebels Won't Be Recognized At This Time


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Family Flees To Algeria








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- Ousted Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's wife and other relatives fled to Algeria Monday, the Algerian foreign ministry said.
> 
> The Algerian government said Gadhafi's wife, daughter, two of his sons and their children entered the neighboring country on Monday. It did not say whether Gadhafi himself was with the family.
> 
> It said the U.N. secretary-general and Security Council and the head of Libyan rebel National Transition Council were informed.
> 
> The report came as battles raged on two sides of Sirte, the southern city that is the headquarters of Gadhafi's tribe and his regime's last major bastion. The rebels were consolidating control of Tripoli, the capital.
> 
> Despite effectively ending his rule, the rebels have yet to find Gadhafi or his family members  something that has cast a pall of lingering uncertainty over the opposition's victory.
> 
> The Egyptian news agency MENA, quoting unidentified rebel fighters, had reported from Tripoli over the weekend that six armored Mercedes sedans, possibly carrying Gadhafi's sons or other top regime figures, had crossed the border at the southwestern Libyan town of Ghadamis into Algeria. Algeria's Foreign Ministry had denied that report.
> 
> Ahmed Jibril, an aide to rebel National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, said if the report of Ghadafi relatives in Algeria is true, "we will demand that Algerian authorities hand them over to Libya to be tried before Libyan courts."



Gaddafi Family Flees To Algeria


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Free 10,000 From Gaddafi Prisons








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- Libyan rebel leaders asked NATO on Monday to keep up pressure on elements of Moammar Gadhafi's regime and to protect those struggling to restore electricity and water to the battle-scarred capital of Tripoli.
> 
> National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told senior NATO envoys meeting in the Gulf Arab nation of Qatar that Gadhafi, who has been in hiding since rebels captured Tripoli a week ago, can still cause trouble.
> 
> "Gadhafi is still capable is doing something awful in the last moments," Abdul-Jalil told military chiefs of staff and other key defense officials from NATO nations including France, Italy and Turkey.
> 
> "Even after the fighting ends, we still need logistical and military support from NATO," he added. NATO has been bombing Gadhafi's forces since March under a United Nations mandate to protect Libyan civilians.
> 
> Rebels appear to have secured the capital after a week of fierce fighting in which they captured Gadhafi's compound and then cleared loyalists holed up in the residential neighborhood of Abu Salim nearby.
> 
> Despite effectively ending his rule, the rebels have yet to find Gadhafi or his family members - something that has cast a pall of lingering uncertainty over the opposition's victory.
> 
> Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, about 250 miles east of Tripoli, is still a bastion of support and some have even speculated that the ousted leader himself may have fled there. Rebels have been converging from the east and west on Sirte, preparing to do battle Gadhafi loyalists. However, no fighting there has been reported yet and rebel leaders say they are trying to negotiate a peaceful surrender with local tribes to avoid further bloodshed.
> 
> Rebels say they want to take Gadhafi alive so they can try him in Libya.
> 
> "We hope that Gadhafi is still in Libya so we can rid the world of this insect," rebel military spokesman Ahmed Bani said. "The only way to treat this pest is to make him accountable for the crimes in Libya."
> 
> Bani also said rebel forces may have killed Gadhafi's son Khamis in a clash Saturday. Rebel clashed with a military convoy in the town of Tarhouna, 50 miles (80 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, destroying two vehicles in the convoy. The bodies in the cars were burned beyond recognition, he said, but captured soldier said they were Khamis Gadhafi's bodyguards.
> 
> Gadhafi's regime sought to break the uprising that broke out mid-February by using lethal force on protesters and locking up thousands people. Bani said nearly 50,000 people are still missing following six months of civil war. He said they have released some 10,000 prisoners from his regime lockups.



Libya Rebels Free 10,000 From Gaddafi Prisons (LIVE UPDATES)


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Rebels Demand Gaddafi Family Extradition








> ABU GRAYN, Libya  Libyan rebels pledged Tuesday to launch an assault within days on Moammar Gadhafi's hometown, the ousted strongman's last major bastion of support.
> 
> The rebels and NATO said that Gadhafi loyalists were negotiating the fate of Sirte, a heavily militarized city some 250 miles (400 kilometers) east of the capital, Tripoli.
> 
> Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the head of the rebels' National Transitional Council, said that negotiations with forces in Sirte would end Saturday after the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr, when the rebels would "act decisively and militarily."
> 
> We can't wait more than that," he told reporters in the eastern city of Benghazi. "We seek and support any efforts to enter these places peacefully. At the end, it might be decided militarily. I hope it will not be the case."
> 
> Col. Roland Lavoie, a NATO spokesman, said it's possible Sirte might surrender without a fight.
> 
> "We have seen dialogues in several villages that were freed  I'm not saying with no hostilities, but with minimal hostilities," he said.
> 
> Lavoie said NATO would continue its mission as long as civilians in the country are under threat, although the area around the capital, Tripoli, is now "essentially free."
> 
> Lavoie appeared to struggle to explain how NATO strikes were protecting civilians at this stage in the conflict. Asked about NATO's assertion that it hit 22 armed vehicles near Sirte on Monday, he was unable to say how the vehicles were threatening civilians, or whether they were in motion or parked.
> 
> The rebels also demanded that Algeria return Gadhafi's wife and three of his children for trial after they fled, raising tensions between the neighboring countries.
> 
> Safiya Gadhafi, her daughter Aisha and sons Hannibal and Mohammed entered Algeria on Monday, while Gadhafi and several other sons remain at large. In Washington, the Obama administration said it had no indication that Gadhafi himself has left the country.
> 
> Algeria's Health Ministry said that Aisha Gadhafi gave birth to a girl on Tuesday. The official provided no other information, including on where she gave birth. The official was not authorized to be publicly named according to ministry rules.
> 
> Algerian news reports had said Aisha's pending childbirth was one reason for Algeria's decision to take the family in.
> 
> The departure of Gadhafi's family was one of the strongest signs yet that the longtime leader has lost his grip on the country. Algeria's decision to host members of the Gadhafi clan is an "aggressive act against the Libyan people's wish," said Mahmoud Shammam, information minister in the rebels' interim government.
> 
> Rebels also said another Gadhafi son, Khamis, was likely killed last week in a battle south of Tripoli.
> 
> "We are determined to arrest and try the whole Gadhafi family, including Gadhafi himself," Shammam said late Monday. "We'd like to see those people coming back to Libya."
> 
> Rebel leaders said they were not surprised to hear Algeria welcomed Gadhafi's family. Throughout Libya's six-month uprising, rebels have accused Algeria of providing Gadhafi with mercenaries to repress the revolt.



Libya: Rebels Demand Gaddafi Family Extradition


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan Interim Council Issues Ultimatum To Gaddafi Loyalists 








> Libyan rebels fighting against the remnants of Colonel Gaddafi's regime have given his forces until Saturday to surrender.
> 
> The leader of the interim National Transitional Council (NTC), Mustafa Abdul Jalil, said on Tuesday that unless he received a "peaceful indication" that Gaddafi's forces would lay down their arms then the NTC would "decide this manner militarily".
> 
> "We do not wish to do so but we cannot wait longer," he said through a translator at a press conference in Benghazi.
> 
> The announcement came as NTC military commander Hisham Buhagiar claimed that 50,000 people had been killed in Libya since the start of the uprising there six months ago.
> 
> Algeria closed parts of its long stretching border with Libya on Tuesday, the local El Watan newspaper reported after the interim Libyan government condemned the Algerian authorities for accepting the ousted dictator's relatives.
> 
> The NTC may seek extradition to bring the Gaddafi family to justice, it has also been reported.
> 
> "Especially for Hannibal, if he fled to Algiers and the Algerian authorities allowed him to do that, we'll consider this as an agressive act against the Libyan people's wish," Mahmoud Shammam, NTC information minister, said.
> 
> "We're going to use all the means to get him back and try him, put him in a court and try him. This is our aim. We would give everybody of the Gaddafi family a fair trial and we can guarantee that."
> 
> But Algeria's envoy to the United Nations defended the decision to take in the Gaddafis saying it was a "holy rule of hospitality" to provide assistance.
> 
> Mourad Benmehidi told the BBC World Service that his nation had a duty to provide assistance.
> 
> "In fact in many parts of the Sahara region it's mandatory by law to provide assistance to anyone in the desert," he told the broadcaster.
> 
> Relations between Algeria and the NTC were strained before the Gaddafi family fled. The NTC previously accused Algeria of sending mercenaries to fight for Gaddafi, while Algeria's autocratic regime has resisted calls to recognise the legitimacy of the NTC and repressed protests within its own country.
> 
> Elsewhere in Libya senior rebel commanders reported that another of Gaddafi's sons, Khamis, had been killed.
> 
> "We have almost certain information that Khamis Gaddafi and Abdullah al-Senussi (his intelligence chief) were killed on Saturday by a unit of the national liberation army during clashes in Tarhouna," spokesman Ahmed Bani told Al Arabiya television.
> 
> Khamis Gaddafi has been reported dead twice before since the uprisings began earlier this year, however, and the deaths remain unconfirmed.
> 
> Meanwhile fighting in Libya on Tuesday was focused mainly around Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, where it has been rumoured that the dictator may be hiding.
> 
> Nato said that it hit 35 targets in airstrikes on Monday, including four radar sites and 22 armed vehicles in Sirte alone.



Libyan Interim Council Issues Ultimatum To Gaddafi Loyalists


----------



## High_Gravity

Al Saadi Gaddafi Negotiates Surrender: Rebels 








> TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) -- Moammar Gadhafi's son al-Saadi is trying to negotiate the terms of his own surrender, the rebel commander in Tripoli told The Associated Press on Wednesday.
> 
> The commander, Abdel Hakim Belhaj, said al-Saadi first called him Tuesday and asked whether his safety could be guaranteed. "We told him 'Don't fear for your life. We will guarantee your rights as a human being, and will deal with you humanely,' said Belhaj, who added that al-Saadi would be turned over to legal authorities.
> 
> If the offer is confirmed -- the rebels have previously claimed to have captured Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam, who hours later turned up free -- the surrender would be a major blow to Gadhafi's crumbling regime. The rebels have been pressing toward Gadhafi's last major stronghold, his hometown of Sirte, and loyalists now only control a handful of major cities.
> 
> Belhaj said Al-Saadi told him he had not killed anyone, and that "he was not against the people."
> 
> "I told him 'This is good. What is important for us is not to shed Libyan blood. For the members of the regime to surrender is the best way to do this,'" Belhaj said.
> 
> The commander said al-Saadi had called back early Wednesday morning, but that he had missed the call. He said he knows al-Saadi's whereabouts, but prefers to negotiate a surrender. He gave no further details.
> 
> Belhaj's comments came hours after Gadhafi's chief spokesman, Moussa Ibrahim, called the AP headquarters in NY, reiterating the senior Gadhafi's offer to send al-Saadi to negotiate with the rebels and form a transitional government. The rebels have previously rejected such offers.
> 
> Ibrahim also rejected a rebel ultimatum for loyalists in Sirte to surrender by Saturday or face an attack.



Al Saadi Gaddafi Negotiates Surrender: Rebels


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Foreign Minister Caught, Claim Rebels 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Rebels hunting the top officials in Moammar's Gadhafi's ousted regime have captured his foreign minister and are closing in on Gadhafi himself, rebel officials said Thursday.
> 
> The announcement, made on the 42nd anniversary of the coup that brought Gadhafi to power, also came as rebels forces pressed toward three major bastions of the crumbling regime, including Gadhafi's hometown.
> 
> "The regime is dying," rebel council spokesman Abdel-Hafiz Ghoga said late Wednesday, after two of Gadhafi's sons made conflicting statements on Arab television stations  with one vowing to fight until death and the other offering to negotiate a truce. "Gadhafi's family is trying to find an exit," Ghoga said. "They only have to surrender completely to the rebels and we will offer them a fair trial. We won't hold negotiations with them over anything."
> 
> Algeria offered safe haven to Gadhafi's wife and three of his children Monday, angering the Libyan rebels. The Algerian newspaper El Watan reported that Gadhafi himself also sought refuge, but the Algerian president refused to take his phone calls.
> 
> With Gadhafi's whereabouts unknown, Algeria's foreign minister insisted Thursday that he's not in Algeria. Asked on Europe-1 radio if Gadhafi could be given asylum, Mourad Medelci said, "I don't believe so."
> 
> Thursday marks the coup against the monarchy of King Idris by 27-year-old Gadhafi and a group of military officers. Gadhafi took undisputed power and became a symbol of anti-Western defiance in a Third World recently liberated from its European colonial rulers. A brutal dictator, his regime was unchallenged until the uprising that began in February.
> 
> Ahmed Said, an adviser to the interior minister in the rebels' interim government, did not identify the captured foreign minister by name, but "can confirm that he is in custody."
> 
> A week ago, Foreign Minister Abdul Ati al-Obeidi told British broadcaster Channel 4 that Gadhafi's rule was over.
> 
> After six months of civil war, rebels have seized control of most of Libya, including the capital Tripoli, effectively ending Gadhafi's rule. The longtime leader and his family have not been captured, but rebels say they are hot on Gadhafi's trail.
> 
> Rebels say they are carefully pulling together clues about Gadhafi's whereabouts from captured regime fighters and others, and learned earlier this week that Gadhafi and two of his sons  longtime heir-apparent Seif al-Islam and former special forces commander al-Saadi  were in the loyalist-controlled town of Bani Walid, said Ghoga. But, he added, it's not clear where they are now.
> 
> Late Wednesday, men claiming to be Seif al-Islam and al-Saadi made their appeals from hiding.
> 
> Seif al-Islam urged his father's supporters to fight the rebels "day and night." He told the Syrian-based Al-Rai TV station that residents of Bani Walid agreed that "we are going to die on our land." Seif al-Islam was once considered the moderate face of the Gadhafi regime and the leader's heir apparent.
> 
> He said NATO had carried out several deadly airstrikes in Bani Walid.
> 
> "Attack the rats," he said, referring to the rebels, adding that he was calling from a suburb of Tripoli and that his father "is fine."
> 
> In a separate phone call to Al-Arabiya television, a man identifying himself as al-Saadi said he was ready to negotiate with the rebels to stop the bloodshed. Rebel leaders have repeatedly said they won't negotiate.
> 
> But Al-Saadi said he spoke for his father and regime military commanders in calling for talks, saying the rebels could lead Libya.
> 
> "We don't mind. We are all Libyans," he said. "We have no problem to give them power."
> 
> The voice of Seif al-Islam  who was reportedly captured by the rebels earlier this month only to turn up free and defiant in Tripoli  was easily recognizable. Al-Saadi's voice is less familiar and more difficult to confirm.
> 
> Rebel forces have been advancing toward three regime strongholds: Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte; the town of Bani Walid, 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli; and Sabha, in the southern desert.
> 
> There has been speculation that Gadhafi is hiding in one of those three towns.
> 
> A NATO statement said their forces had launched airstrikes Wednesday against Sirte, and near Bani Walid and Hun, a town midway between Sirte and Sabha. Their targets included missile launchers, an ammunition storage site and a tank.



Gaddafi Foreign Minister Caught, Claim Rebels


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Paris Conference Pleads For New UN Resolution 








> PARIS  U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has called on the Security Council to make a decision quickly on deploying a civilian mission to stabilize Libya.
> 
> Ban said dozens of world leaders at a conference in Paris on Thursday agreed that the United Nations would now take the lead on assisting Libya's new leadership.
> 
> He called for "prompt action" to "deploy a civilian mission as rapidly as possible."
> 
> He spoke after leaders and envoys from 60 nations and world bodies such as the United Nations and NATO met in Paris for talks with Libya's rebel-led National Transitional Council to map out Libya's future after the ouster of longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
> 
> PARIS (AP)  The leaders of Britain and France say that dozens of world nations have pledged to support Libya's new leadership, though warn the struggle to stabilize the country is not over.
> 
> British Prime Minister David Cameron said NATO will continue operations for as long as needed to protect civilians in Libya, even after the ouster of longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> French President Nicolas Sarkozy said at an international conference Thursday that, "We are committed to returning to the Libyans the monies of yesterday for the building of tomorrow."
> 
> Both spoke after leaders and envoys from 60 nations and world bodies such as the United Nations and NATO met in Paris for talks with Libya's rebel-led National Transitional Council to map out Libya's future.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/libya-paris-conference-gaddafi_n_945336.html


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Rebels Seek Gaddafi Haven By Pushing On Toward Tribal City








> MISRATA, Libya -- A flash of sunlight reflecting off a distant windshield heralded the approach of a vehicle across the endless Libyan desert. So the rebel truck slammed into reverse, taking cover behind a sandy hill and swiveling its heavy machinegun to take aim at whatever was coming.
> 
> It was the only vehicle on the deserted highway coming from Bani Walid, one of the few Libyan towns the rebels don't control and a possible hiding place of deposed Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> Backed by NATO airstrikes, rebel fighters have been pushing in recent days toward three key targets: Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, the southern city of Sabha and Bani Walid, 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli.
> 
> With roads connecting it to Tripoli, Misrata and other key coastal cities, as well as links to the deep southern deserts, Bani Walid was an obvious haven for regime loyalists escaping Tripoli after rebel forces swept into the capital on Aug. 20.
> 
> While the rebels have said they will wait more than a week to assault the three pro-Gadhafi bastions  hoping for surrenders instead of more bloodshed  Misrata-based rebel patrols still head daily into the scrub-filled desert to keep an eye on Gadhafi's remaining forces.
> 
> The civilians were long gone. Anyone planning to flee had already done so. With regular skirmishes in the area, the patrol knew the other vehicle could be carrying pro-Gadhafi fighters.
> 
> The approaching vehicle, however, turned out to be friendly  another rebel pickup that had gone even further toward Bani Walid.
> 
> That patrol reported little loyalist activity, though the burned-out trucks, shell casings of all sizes and shattered buildings in the desert spoke of months' worth of past battles.
> 
> After a grueling four-month siege at the hands of government forces, Misrata's rebels have a score to settle with Gadhafi. They also have a nearly century-old grudge with the town of Bani Walid.
> 
> During the 1915 war against the Italian colonial rulers, a Misratan rebel commander named Ramadan al-Sweihy was betrayed and then killed by the tribesmen of Bani Walid, who were taking money from the Italians.
> 
> Misratans have never forgotten this betrayal.
> 
> "My grandfather used to tell me this story," said Marwan Tantoun, a 22-year-old rebel. "In Bani Walid, they are afraid of everyone. They are afraid of Gadhafi."
> 
> In a Thursday audio message, Gadhafi taunted the rebels and said the tribes of Sirte, including his own Gadhadhafa and the Warfala of Bani Walid, would fight to the death. "The battle will be long," he promised.
> 
> In the waning months of his weakening regime, Gadhafi warned the rebels that he had the support of Libya's tribes, and especially the Warfala, which may have up to a million members across the country.
> 
> But much of that support never materialized.
> 
> When Gadhafi seized power 42 years ago, he espoused a progressive brand of Arab nationalism, but he soon had to fall back on the country's tribal network to support his regime, lavishing money and perks on their leaders.
> 
> So while Gadhafi does have some genuine support, the situation is often far from clear  even in loyalist towns.
> 
> "There are people with us (in Bani Walid), and some are half with us, and some are with Gadhafi because they take money from him," Tantoun said.
> 
> The Warafala's support for Gadhafi has never been unconditional. In 1993, he uncovered a plot to assassinate him by 55 Warfala army officers. For years afterward, Bani Walid was in official disfavor.
> 
> At a frontline rebel camp, a deputy rebel commander dismissed the town and its inhabitants altogether.
> 
> "Bani Walid doesn't matter, they are weak," Ahmed Belhaj said. "Everyone there is a Gadhafi supporter  99.9 percent." He expected the city to collapse as soon as Sirte was taken.
> 
> Now, though, Bani Walid may well find itself in the sights of the massing troops  especially the Misratan rebels returning from their conquest of Tripoli.



Libya Rebels Seek Gaddafi Haven By Pushing On Toward Tribal City


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan, Tuareg Convoy Heads For Niamey, Niger, Carrying Gaddafi Troops: Report 








> NIAMEY, Niger  Senior members of Moammar Gadhafi's regime crossed in convoys from Libya into neighboring Niger on Tuesday, with the toppled Libyan leader's own security chief at the head of one of the columns as it rolled into the capital, officials said.
> 
> U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said some senior members of the Gadhafi regime were in the convoy that reached Niger.
> 
> "But we do not believe that Gadhafi was among them," she told reporters. "We don't have any evidence that Gadhafi is anywhere but in Libya at the moment."
> 
> The U.S. had no evidence to suggest that Gadhafi family members were in the group, either, she said.
> 
> Nuland said the U.S. has urged Niger authorities to detain any individuals who may be subject to prosecution in Libya; confiscate their weapons; and impound any state property  such as money or jewels  that were illegally taken out of the country.
> 
> Customs official Harouna Ide told the AP that Mansour Dao, Gadhafi's security chief, was at the head of the first convoy. He said other Libyan convoys were south of Agadez in central Niger, a desert country bordering Libya and where Gadhafi has the support of many Tuareg tribal fighters.
> 
> It wasn't clear if Gadhafi family members were in the convoys but al-Arabiya television quoted Niger's Foreign Minister Bazoum Mohamed as saying Gadhafi himself was not present.
> 
> Assarid Ag Imbarcaouane, an official from neighboring Mali, said a convoy was carrying Gadhafi's entourage. Imbarcaouane is second vice president of the National Assembly of Mali and is a pro-Gadhafi Tuareg leader.
> 
> "As far as the information I have received, the Guide is not in the convoy," he said, referring to Gadhafi. "Rather, it's the people in Gadhafi's entourage."
> 
> The customs official said there were a dozen vehicles in Dao's convoy, and that among passengers were about 12 Gadhafi officials, Tuareg rebel leader Rissa ag Boula and other Tuaregs from Niger who had gone to Libya to fight for Gadhafi.
> 
> Abdoulaye Harouna, owner of the Agadez Info newspaper, said he saw one of the groups arrive in his town Monday in several dozen pickup trucks. They headed for the capital, Niamey, a drive of some 600 miles (965 kilometers). The capital is in Niger's southwestern corner near the nation of Burkina Faso, where Gadhafi has been offered asylum.
> 
> Harouna said he saw the Tuareg leader Boula in the convoy. Boula is a native of Niger who led a failed war of independence on behalf of ethnic Tuareg nomads a decade ago before seeking refuge in Libya.
> 
> The government of Burkina Faso said late last month it would recognize the Libyan rebels' National Transitional Council. Foreign minister Djibril Bassolet also said the landlocked West African nation would welcome Gadhafi "if he wishes it." But a top security official in Burkina Faso said there was no sign any of the convoys would proceed into Burkina Faso, which lies west of Niger. The official asked not to be named because he's not authorized to speak to journalists.
> 
> Both Niger and Burkina Faso are signatories to the International Criminal Court, which issued an arrest warrant for the Libyan leader, his son and the country's intelligence chief. But both nations also belong to the African Union, which during a July summit called on member countries to disregard the warrant. The AU and many African leaders have become increasingly critical of the court, accusing it of targeting Africans.



Libyan, Tuareg Convoy Heads For Niamey, Niger, Carrying Gaddafi Troops: Report


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyan Spy Files Detail Muammar Gaddafi Regime's Fall 









> TRIPOLI, Libya -- As the uprising grew against Moammar Gadhafi, secret reports from his vaunted intelligence service flowed back to Tripoli. Some were mundane  how agents erased anti-regime graffiti. Others were more deadly  a spy volunteered to poison rebel leaders' food and drink.
> 
> The reports grew more desperate as the Libyan rebellion veered into civil war: Military leaders in the western mountains were disregarding orders; troops in the city of Misrata ran out of ammunition, turning the situation into "every man for himself."
> 
> These reports and hundreds of other intelligence documents seen by The Associated Press in Tripoli trace how the tide shifted in the six-month uprising that ended Gadhafi's 42-year reign. They show how an authoritarian regime using all its means failed to quash an armed rebellion largely fueled by hatred of its tools of control.
> 
> The Arab-language documents read and photographed by an AP reporter during a visit to Tripoli's intelligence headquarters contain a mixture of military data and regime propaganda. Amid reports on rebels' movements, phone tap records and dispatches from Gadhafi's domestic agents are memos claiming that al-Qaida was behind the rebellion and that 4,000 U.S. troops were about to invade from Egypt.
> 
> The uprising began in mid-February when security forces used deadly fire to suppress anti-government protests in the eastern city of Benghazi. The opposition responded to the fierce crackdown by taking up arms, quickly seizing a large swath of eastern Libya and establishing a temporary administration.
> 
> The conflict changed to civil war as rebel forces grew, expelling government forces from of the western city of Misrata and seizing much of the western Nafusa mountain range. It was from there that they pushed to the coast, then stormed into the capital on Aug. 21, effectively ending Gadhafi's rule.
> 
> Throughout the war, Gadhafi's security offices in Tripoli directed efforts to quash the rebellion. Among those leading the charge was intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senoussi, whose well-fortified compound received reports from around the country.
> 
> Early on, his office struggled to understand the situation in Benghazi, birthplace of the rebels' National Transitional Council.
> 
> One of the handwritten intelligence reports, written by a man who said he had "infiltrated" the rebel council, gave the names of five members, their background and the hotels they frequented. None of the material would be unfamiliar to a Benghazi resident.
> 
> The note concluded with an offer to kill the council members.
> 
> "I can carry out any suicide operation I'm given to assassinate members of the council or poison their food and water," it read.
> 
> The author is not identified. No council members have been killed by Gadhafi's regime.
> 
> Another report parroted stories spread by Libyan state media that the rebels were linked to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist group, that they lacked local support, and that they carried Viagra and condoms into battle so they could rape women.
> 
> The regime took these claims to the international community, especially after NATO began bombing Libyan military targets under a U.N. mandate to protect civilians.
> 
> One document discovered was a draft letter from Gadhafi to President Barack Obama.
> 
> "It is necessary to support Libya to get rid of the armed men of al-Qaida before all of north Africa falls into the hands of bin Laden," it said. It is unclear if the letter was ever sent.
> 
> The documents refer to the rebels as "insurgents," "saboteurs" "armed gangs" and "rats."
> 
> Reports from across Libya detail the government's actions to erase opposition symbols, such as replacing rebel flags with the green banners of the Gadhafi regime or painting over rebel graffiti.
> 
> Phone taps were common and sometimes detailed rebel capabilities and movements. One paper cited 30 calls intercepted in one week. Other records contained GPS coordinates of the callers.
> 
> The reports also showed how the regime was quick to believe its own disinformation. In one conversation log, an Egyptian man said 4,000 U.S. troops were in Cairo, waiting to enter Libya by land.
> 
> "Four thousand, some of them commandos," the Egyptian said. "It's unbelievable."
> 
> There were signs of paranoia. In one log, a man with a Gulf Arab accent advised that Gadhafi, his sons and associates "use their cellphone for no more than three minutes," out of fear that they, too, were being intercepted.
> 
> In April and May, bleak reports flowed back from the front lines. A report marked "secret" on the situation in the Nafusa mountains laid out a new military strategy while blasting commanders for failing to follow instructions.



Libyan Spy Files Detail Muammar Gaddafi Regime's Fall


----------



## High_Gravity

Moammar Gaddafi Surrounded By Libyan Rebels: Report








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libyan fighters have surrounded ousted dictator Moammar Gadhafi, and it is only a matter of time until he is captured or killed, a spokesman for Tripoli's new military council said Wednesday.
> 
> The council's deputy defense minister said, however, that Libya's former rebels had no idea where Gadhafi was, and they were focusing on taking control of territory instead of tracking down the former leader.
> 
> Figures in Libya's new government have given a series of conflicting statements about Gadhafi's presumed whereabouts since the fall of the capital last month and many reports about his location have proven untrue.
> 
> Anis Sharif told The Associated Press that Gadhafi was still in Libya and had been tracked using advanced technology and human intelligence. Rebel forces have taken up positions on all sides of Gadhafi's presumed location, with none more than 40 miles (60 kilometers) away, he said, without providing details.
> 
> "He can't get out," said Sharif, who added the former rebels are preparing to either detain him or kill him. "We are just playing games with him," Sharif said.
> 
> NATO said that it had made a number of airstrikes around Sirte  Gadhafi's hometown  on Tuesday, hitting six tanks, six armored fighting vehicles and an ammunition storage facility, among other targets. They also targeted the Gadhafi loyalist strongholds of Hun, Sabha and Waddan.
> 
> Deputy Defense Minister Mohammad Tanaz told the AP that the former rebels don't know where Gadhafi is, and the fugitive could still be hiding in tunnels under Tripoli.
> 
> He said the manhunt was not a focus for his men.
> 
> "Our priority is to liberate all of Libya," he said.
> 
> Locating Gadhafi would help seal the new rulers' hold on the country. Convoys of Gadhafi loyalists, including his security chief, fled across the Sahara into Niger this week in a move that Libya's former rebels hoped could help lead to the surrender of his last strongholds.
> 
> In Niger's capital, Niamey, Massoudou Hassoumi, a spokesman for the president, said Gadhafi's security chief had crossed the desert into Niger on Monday.
> 
> Mansour Dao, the former commander of Libya's Revolutionary Guards who is a cousin of Gadhafi as well as a member of his inner circle, is the only senior Libyan figure to have crossed into Niger, said Hassoumi.
> 
> Hassoumi said the group of nine people also included several pro-Gadhafi businessmen, as well as Agaly ag Alambo, a Tuareg rebel leader from Niger who led a failed uprising in the country's north before crossing into Libya, where he was believed to be fighting for Gadhafi.
> 
> Since Tripoli's fall last month to Libyan rebels, there has been a movement of Gadhafi loyalists across the porous desert border that separates Libya from Niger. They include Tuareg fighters who are nationals of Niger and next-door neighbor Mali who fought on Gadhafi's behalf in the recent civil war.
> 
> Niger's foreign minister told Algeria's state news agency that several Libyan convoys had entered his country, but that none carried Gadhafi.
> 
> Algeria, which like Niger shares a border with Libya  confirmed last week that the ousted leader's wife, his daughter, two of his sons, and several grandchildren had crossed into Algeria.
> 
> The West African nation of Burkina Faso, which borders Niger, offered Gadhafi asylum last month. On Tuesday, Burkina Faso distanced itself from Gadhafi, indicating he would be arrested if he went there.



Moammar Gaddafi Surrounded By Libyan Rebels: Report


----------



## High_Gravity

In a New Libya, Ex-Loyalists Race to Shed Ties to Qaddafi








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Khalid Saad worked for years as a loyal cog in Col. Muammar el-Qaddafis propaganda machine, arranging transportation to ferry foreign journalists to staged rallies, ensuring that they never left their hotels without official escorts and raising his own voice to cheer the Libyan leader.
> 
> The day that rebels took Tripoli, Mr. Saad immediately switched sides.
> 
> Now he works for the rebels provisional government, coordinating transportation for its officials and insisting that his previous support for Colonel Qaddafi was just business. My uncle and my son were soldiers for the revolution, he said in an interview. Everyone will be happy now. Everything is changed now. Everyone is free.
> 
> As the curtain falls on Colonel Qaddafis Tripoli, many of its supporting actors are rushing to pick up new roles with the rebels, the very same people they were obliged not long ago to refer to as the rats. Many Libyans say the ease with which former Qaddafi supporters have switched sides is a testament to the pervasive cynicism of the Qaddafi era, when dissent meant jail or death, job opportunities depended on political connections, and almost everyone learned to wear two faces to survive within the system.
> 
> That cynicism may now prove to be Tripolis saving grace. After months of a brutal crackdown and a bitter civil war, in a country with little history of unity where autonomous brigades of fighters still roam the capital, citizens have been unexpectedly willing to set aside their grievances against functionaries of the Qaddafi government. Everyone knows that almost everyone who stayed out of jail during four decades of Colonel Qaddafis rule was to some extent complicit.
> 
> Indeed, the thin veneer of support helps explain why the loyalist forces who had terrorized the city crumbled so swiftly when it became clear that the end was near, averting the expected blood bath. Though loyalists still hold out in pockets around the country, and there have been episodes of retaliatory violence and looting, Tripoli, the capital, changed hands and returned to peace in a matter of days.
> 
> The way the system worked, everyone had to be part of it  all of us, said Adel Sennosi, a former official of Colonel Qaddafis Foreign Ministry who is now working for the provisional governments Foreign Ministry. If we say, Get rid of whoever was part of the system, we would have to get rid of the whole population, he said.
> 
> Now, he said, many of those former loyalists are more revolutionary than anyone else!
> 
> Rebel officials have said for months that they would try to avoid the mistakes made in Iraq after Saddam Hussein was overthrown, when United States officials disbanded the military and barred all former members of the ruling Baath Party  many of Iraqs most experienced professionals  from working in any public-sector job.
> 
> Instead, the Libyan rebels said, they will seek retribution, in a courtroom, against only the most notorious Qaddafi government officials, those who oversaw torture or killings, egregiously enriched themselves or, in the case of the captured television host Hala Misrati, led the propaganda war on state television.
> 
> The rebel leaders pledged to welcome back most of the bureaucrats and other midlevel functionaries, and so far, former senior officials of Colonel Qaddafis government say the provisional government appears to be keeping its word. To underscore that point, the rebel leadership held a ceremony on Tuesday to hand control of a major natural gas plant to the same manager who was responsible for its security under Colonel Qaddafi.
> 
> There are very few instances of revenge, said Abdulmajeed el-Dursi, the former chief of the Qaddafi-era foreign media operation, sipping coffee at a cafe full of rebels and talking about opening a media services company.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/world/africa/08tripoli.html?_r=1&hp


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Test New Leaders' Patience In Bani Walid 



> WISHTATA, Libya  Libyan fighters launched a two-pronged assault Friday on one of the last towns to resist the country's new rulers, clashing with Moammar Gadhafi's supporters inside Bani Walid as a week-long standoff dissolved into street-to-street battles, the former rebels said.
> 
> The former rebels had set a Saturday deadline for Bani Walid to surrender or face an offensive but decided to attack Friday evening after Gadhafi forces fired volleys of rockets at the fighters' positions around the town.
> 
> Abdullah Kenshil, the former rebels' chief negotiatior, said the former rebels were fighting gunmen positioned in houses in the town and the hills that overlooked it.
> 
> Anti-Gadhafi forces were moving in from the east and south, and the fighters deepest inside Bani Walid were clashing with Gadhafi's men about a mile (2 kilometers) from the center of the town, Kenshil said.
> 
> Before the reported Friday evening assault, Gadhafi holdouts in Bani Walid fired mortars and rockets toward the fighters' position in a desert dotted with green shrubs and white rocks, killing at least one and wounding several. Loud explosions were heard about six miles (10 kilometers) from the front line, followed by plumes of black smoke in the already hazy air. NATO planes circled above.
> 
> NATO says it is acting under a U.N. mandate to guarantee the safety of Libya's civilian population. Its bombing campaign has been crucial to the advance of Gadhafi's military opponents.
> 
> Daw Salaheen, the chief commander for the anti-Gadhafi forces' operation at Bani Walid, said his fighters responded with their own rocket fire, and advanced on the town.
> 
> "They are inside the city. They are fighting with snipers," Kenshil said. "They forced this on us and it was in self-defense."
> 
> He said three Gadhafi loyalists had been wounded and three killed, while the former rebels had one dead and four wounded. He said the former rebels had taken seven prisoners.
> 
> Kenshil said the former rebels believed that there were about 600 Gadhafi supporters in and around Bani Walid.
> 
> "Snipers are scattered over the hills and the rebels want to chase them," he said. "There is hand-to-hand combat. The population is afraid so we have to go and protect civilians."
> 
> Interpol said it had issued its top most-wanted alert for the arrest of Gadhafi, his son Seif al-Islam and the country's ex-chief of military intelligence. The three are sought by the International Criminal Court for alleged crimes against humanity, and there have been reports Seif al-Islam is in Bani Walid.
> 
> The elder Gadhafi hasn't been seen in public for months and went underground after anti-regime fighters swept into Tripoli on Aug. 21. As the National Transitional Council tries to establish its authority in Libya, speculation about Gadhafi's whereabouts has centered on his Mediterranean hometown of Sirte, southern Sabha, and Bani Walid, 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli. Gadhafi loyalists in all three towns have been given until Saturday to surrender, or face an all-out battle.
> 
> Officials in the National Transitional Council  which is the closest thing to a government Libya has now but still has only shaky authority  had set a Saturday deadline for the city of 100,000 to surrender. They have hoped to negotiate a peaceful entry into the city, but talks with local leaders have gone nowhere.
> 
> Before the former rebels announced their offensive, the dozens of fighters deployed at checkpoints outside the city were clearly impatient to move in.
> 
> Osama al-Fassi helped unload ammunition from the back of a large truck with a sense of urgency. The bearded man in sand-colored fatigues said that with Gadhafi loyalists rocketing the front line, he didn't attach much importance to the political leaders' plans on when to move.
> 
> "We in the field decide when we enter the city with force," he said as he loaded wooden boxes of Russian manufactured ammunition into a pick up truck that was headed to the front. The truck was quickly filled with RPGs still in plastic wrapping, small mortar rockets, and metal boxes of ammunition.



Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Test New Leaders' Patience In Bani Walid (VIDEO)


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Rebels May Be Guilty Of War Crimes, Amnesty 








> BRUSSELS (AP) -- Rebels fighting to topple Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi committed unlawful killings and torture, Amnesty International said in a report released on Tuesday.
> 
> The 100-plus page report, based on three months of investigation in Libya, draws no equivalency between the crimes of Gadhafi loyalists and those of the former rebels, who now hold power in Tripoli: The Gadhafi forces' crimes were greater, the list of them is longer, and they may have amounted to crimes against humanity, the report said.
> 
> But it said the crimes of the rebels were not insignificant.
> 
> "Members and supporters of the opposition, loosely structured under the leadership of the National Transitional Council (NTC) ... have also committed human rights abuses, in some cases amounting to war crimes, albeit on a smaller scale," the Amnesty report said.
> 
> It said opposition supporters "unlawfully killed" more than a dozen Gadhafi loyalists and security officials between April and early July. And just after the rebels took control of eastern Libya, the report said, angry groups of rebel supporters "shot, hanged and otherwise killed through lynching" dozens of captured soldiers and suspected mercenaries, with impunity.
> 
> Mohammed al-Alagi, justice minister for Libya's transitional authorities, said that describing the rebels' actions as war crimes is wrong.
> 
> "They are not the military, they are only ordinary people," al-Alagi said. While he aknowledged that rebels have made mistakes, he said they cannot be described as "war crimes at all."
> 
> In addition, the report said both sides stirred up racism and xenophobia, causing sub-Saharan Africans to be increasingly attacked, robbed and abused by ordinary Libyans.
> 
> "In February, there was this rumor about Gadhafi using black people as mercenaries; that's wrong," Nicolas Beger, director of the Amnesty International European Institutions office, told Associated Press Television News in Brussels on Monday. "But the NTC has not done a lot to curb that rumor and now there is a lot of retaliation against sub-Saharan Africans. Whether they were or they weren't involved with the Gadhafi forces, they are at real risk of being taken from their work or their homes or the street to be tortured or killed."
> 
> Beger also said abuses were continuing under the new government.
> 
> "We have even spoken to guards who admit that they use force," he said. "They say, 'Yeah we use force in order to get confessions, in order to force people to hand in their weapons.' So this really needs to be controlled. This is one of the priorities that the new authorities have to really get a clear act on."
> 
> The report also listed an extensive list of crimes allegedly committed by Gadhafi's regime. The loyalists killed and injured scores of unarmed protesters, made critics disappear, used illegal cluster bombs, launched artillery, mortar and rocket attacks against residential areas, and, without any legal proceedings, executed captives, the report said.



Libya: Rebels May Be Guilty Of War Crimes, Amnesty


----------



## LAfrique

High_Gravity said:


> Libya: Rebels May Be Guilty Of War Crimes, Amnesty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BRUSSELS (AP) -- Rebels fighting to topple Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi committed unlawful killings and torture, Amnesty International said in a report released on Tuesday.
> 
> The 100-plus page report, based on three months of investigation in Libya, draws no equivalency between the crimes of Gadhafi loyalists and those of the former rebels, who now hold power in Tripoli: The Gadhafi forces' crimes were greater, the list of them is longer, and they may have amounted to crimes against humanity, the report said.
> 
> But it said the crimes of the rebels were not insignificant.
> 
> "Members and supporters of the opposition, loosely structured under the leadership of the National Transitional Council (NTC) ... have also committed human rights abuses, in some cases amounting to war crimes, albeit on a smaller scale," the Amnesty report said.
> 
> It said opposition supporters "unlawfully killed" more than a dozen Gadhafi loyalists and security officials between April and early July. And just after the rebels took control of eastern Libya, the report said, angry groups of rebel supporters "shot, hanged and otherwise killed through lynching" dozens of captured soldiers and suspected mercenaries, with impunity.
> 
> Mohammed al-Alagi, justice minister for Libya's transitional authorities, said that describing the rebels' actions as war crimes is wrong.
> 
> "They are not the military, they are only ordinary people," al-Alagi said. While he aknowledged that rebels have made mistakes, he said they cannot be described as "war crimes at all."
> 
> In addition, the report said both sides stirred up racism and xenophobia, causing sub-Saharan Africans to be increasingly attacked, robbed and abused by ordinary Libyans.
> 
> "In February, there was this rumor about Gadhafi using black people as mercenaries; that's wrong," Nicolas Beger, director of the Amnesty International European Institutions office, told Associated Press Television News in Brussels on Monday. "But the NTC has not done a lot to curb that rumor and now there is a lot of retaliation against sub-Saharan Africans. Whether they were or they weren't involved with the Gadhafi forces, they are at real risk of being taken from their work or their homes or the street to be tortured or killed."
> 
> Beger also said abuses were continuing under the new government.
> 
> "We have even spoken to guards who admit that they use force," he said. "They say, 'Yeah we use force in order to get confessions, in order to force people to hand in their weapons.' So this really needs to be controlled. This is one of the priorities that the new authorities have to really get a clear act on."
> 
> The report also listed an extensive list of crimes allegedly committed by Gadhafi's regime. The loyalists killed and injured scores of unarmed protesters, made critics disappear, used illegal cluster bombs, launched artillery, mortar and rocket attacks against residential areas, and, without any legal proceedings, executed captives, the report said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Rebels May Be Guilty Of War Crimes, Amnesty
Click to expand...



Most of us knew the vicious amongst Libyan rebels are recruits of Western imperialists with a long history of recruiting the miserable of nations and then using them to destablize nations. Whenever I think of the absurd attack on Libya and International Freedom Fighter, Muammar Gddafi, I am always consoled by the fact that *our imperialists are in for the greatest surprise of their miserable lives.*


----------



## Uncensored2008

LAfrique said:


> Most of us knew the vicious amongst Libyan rebels are recruits of Western imperialists with a long history of recruiting the miserable of nations and then using them to destablize nations. Whenever I think of the absurd attack on Libya and International Freedom Fighter, Muammar Gddafi, I am always consoled by the fact that *our imperialists are in for the greatest surprise of their miserable lives.*



Of course troll

of course....


----------



## High_Gravity

LAfrique said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Rebels May Be Guilty Of War Crimes, Amnesty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BRUSSELS (AP) -- Rebels fighting to topple Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi committed unlawful killings and torture, Amnesty International said in a report released on Tuesday.
> 
> The 100-plus page report, based on three months of investigation in Libya, draws no equivalency between the crimes of Gadhafi loyalists and those of the former rebels, who now hold power in Tripoli: The Gadhafi forces' crimes were greater, the list of them is longer, and they may have amounted to crimes against humanity, the report said.
> 
> But it said the crimes of the rebels were not insignificant.
> 
> "Members and supporters of the opposition, loosely structured under the leadership of the National Transitional Council (NTC) ... have also committed human rights abuses, in some cases amounting to war crimes, albeit on a smaller scale," the Amnesty report said.
> 
> It said opposition supporters "unlawfully killed" more than a dozen Gadhafi loyalists and security officials between April and early July. And just after the rebels took control of eastern Libya, the report said, angry groups of rebel supporters "shot, hanged and otherwise killed through lynching" dozens of captured soldiers and suspected mercenaries, with impunity.
> 
> Mohammed al-Alagi, justice minister for Libya's transitional authorities, said that describing the rebels' actions as war crimes is wrong.
> 
> "They are not the military, they are only ordinary people," al-Alagi said. While he aknowledged that rebels have made mistakes, he said they cannot be described as "war crimes at all."
> 
> In addition, the report said both sides stirred up racism and xenophobia, causing sub-Saharan Africans to be increasingly attacked, robbed and abused by ordinary Libyans.
> 
> "In February, there was this rumor about Gadhafi using black people as mercenaries; that's wrong," Nicolas Beger, director of the Amnesty International European Institutions office, told Associated Press Television News in Brussels on Monday. "But the NTC has not done a lot to curb that rumor and now there is a lot of retaliation against sub-Saharan Africans. Whether they were or they weren't involved with the Gadhafi forces, they are at real risk of being taken from their work or their homes or the street to be tortured or killed."
> 
> Beger also said abuses were continuing under the new government.
> 
> "We have even spoken to guards who admit that they use force," he said. "They say, 'Yeah we use force in order to get confessions, in order to force people to hand in their weapons.' So this really needs to be controlled. This is one of the priorities that the new authorities have to really get a clear act on."
> 
> The report also listed an extensive list of crimes allegedly committed by Gadhafi's regime. The loyalists killed and injured scores of unarmed protesters, made critics disappear, used illegal cluster bombs, launched artillery, mortar and rocket attacks against residential areas, and, without any legal proceedings, executed captives, the report said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Rebels May Be Guilty Of War Crimes, Amnesty
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Most of us knew the vicious amongst Libyan rebels are recruits of Western imperialists with a long history of recruiting the miserable of nations and then using them to destablize nations. Whenever I think of the absurd attack on Libya and International Freedom Fighter, Muammar Gddafi, I am always consoled by the fact that *our imperialists are in for the greatest surprise of their miserable lives.*
Click to expand...


You don't have a clue what you are talking about but that is the norm for you.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Mass Graves Found In And Around Tripoli 


















> GENEVA -- The International Committee of the Red Cross says at least 13 mass graves have been found in Libya over the past three weeks.
> 
> The Geneva-based Red Cross says its staff assisted in the recovery of 125 bodies found at 12 different sites in and around Tripoli.
> 
> It says remains of 34 people were also recovered from a site in the Nafusa mountain village of Galaa in western Libya.
> 
> ICRC spokesman Steven Anderson said Wednesday that more mass graves are being found every week.
> 
> The aid group says it is helping ensure the remains are properly recovered so that the identities of the dead can be established and relatives informed.
> 
> It said it is not involved in collecting evidence that could be used in war crimes or other legal proceedings.
> 
> Human Rights Watch reports that it is likely the men were executed in early June before pro-Gaddafi forces fled the area. Bullet casings present at the site suggest that the men were shot with automatic gunfire before being buried.



Libya: Mass Graves Found In And Around Tripoli (PHOTOS)


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Digs In 








> WADI AL-HAMMAR, Libya  The revolution's quest to unite Libya under its control has a formidable challenge standing in the way: A swath of territory where disciplined loyalists fighters stage precision attacks and withering shelling barrages to defend land that includes Moammar Gadhafi's hometown.
> 
> It's far too early to predict whether the pro-Gadhafi heartland  wedged between the former rebel hub of Benghazi and the capital Tripoli  could turn into a seat of resistance such as insurgent zones in Iraq or Afghanistan. But, for the moment, it carries the same interplay of firepower and zealotry, fueling attacks that have killed at least 80 anti-Gadhafi forces in recent days.
> 
> "Its cities are packed with weapons, missiles and ammunition depots," said Fadl-Allah Haroun, a commander of revolutionary units near Benghazi. "It is an unbelievable force."
> 
> Currently, former rebel fighters are assembling for an expected push into the well-defended loyalist stronghold of Bani Walid, on the western end of the 240-mile (400-kilometer) band of pro-Gadhafi territory. It includes the hunted leader's Mediterranean birthplace Sirte and stretches to near the oil port of Ras Lanouf  which came under back-to-back attacks by loyalist forces on Monday that killed 15 guards.
> 
> The stiff resistance in Bani Walid, including by highly trained snipers, offers a glimpse of possibly much bigger fights ahead to try to dislodge Sirte and other places from loyalist hands.
> 
> Cities and towns throughout the Gadhafi belt are apparently awash with arms  with larger weapons such as 152mm Howitzer canons now well hidden against NATO airstrikes that continue in the area, revolutionary commanders told The Associated Press. The pro-Gadhafi commandos also stage hit-and-run strikes from the desert to the south, suggesting that Libya's vast hinterlands and distant loyalist hubs such as Sabha could become rallying points for resistance fighters.
> 
> Outside Wadi Al-Hammar, a village on the coastal road about 55 miles (90 kilometers) east of Sirte, anti-Gadhafi forces have found armored vehicles hidden under tents and other weapons stashed in encampments of nomadic Bedouin tribesmen.
> 
> Al-Tayab Said, a revolutionary commander from Sabha, said loyalist fighters are trying to regroup and are using desert supply lines from Algeria.
> 
> "They are moving freely across the border," he said. "They get constant supply."
> 
> Other anti-Gadhafi leaders have noted the superior fighting tactics of the highly trained loyalists units compared with the civilian-heavy revolutionary brigades.
> 
> A battlefield report about a Mitsubishi pickup is now making the rounds as a cautionary tale.
> 
> On Saturday, pro-Gadhafi forces left the vehicle  loaded with ammunition  in a conspicuous hilltop in Wadi Al-Hammar. Revolutionary fighters rushed to claim the prize, but were picked off by hidden marksmen. At least 35 deaths were counted before the group managed to retreat to safety.
> 
> Dr. Ahmed Alsharif, who heads a field hospital in Nawfaliyah, said at least 80 anti-Gadhafi fighters have been killed since Saturday in or around the loyalist territory.



Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Digs In


----------



## High_Gravity

Islamists Growing Sway Raises Questions for Libya








> TRIPOLI, Libya  In the emerging post-Qaddafi Libya, the most influential politician may well be Ali Sallabi, who has no formal title but commands broad respect as an Islamic scholar and populist orator who was instrumental in leading the mass uprising.
> 
> *The most powerful military leader is now Abdel Hakim Belhaj, the former leader of a hard-line group once believed to be aligned with Al Qaeda. *
> 
> The growing influence of Islamists in Libya raises hard questions about the ultimate character of the government and society that will rise in place of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafis autocracy. The United States and Libyas new leaders say the Islamists, a well-organized group in a mostly moderate country, are sending signals that they are dedicated to democratic pluralism. They say there is no reason to doubt the Islamists sincerity.
> 
> But as in Egypt and Tunisia, the latest upheaval of the Arab Spring deposed a dictator who had suppressed hard-core Islamists, and there are some worrisome signs about what kind of government will follow. It is far from clear where Libya will end up on a spectrum of possibilities that range from the Turkish model of democratic pluralism to the muddle of Egypt to, in the worst case, the theocracy of Shiite Iran or Sunni models like the Taliban or even Al Qaeda.
> 
> Islamist militias in Libya receive weapons and financing directly from foreign benefactors like Qatar; a Muslim Brotherhood figure, Abel al-Rajazk Abu Hajar, leads the Tripoli Municipal Governing Council, where Islamists are reportedly in the majority; in eastern Libya, there has been no resolution of the assassination in July of the leader of the rebel military, Gen. Abdul Fattah Younes, suspected by some to be the work of Islamists.
> 
> Mr. Belhaj has become so much an insider lately that he is seeking to unseat Mahmoud Jibril, the American-trained economist who is the nominal prime minister of the interim government, after Mr. Jibril obliquely criticized the Islamists.
> 
> For an uprising that presented a liberal, Westernized face to the world, the growing sway of Islamists  activists with fundamentalist Islamic views, who want a society governed by Islamic principles  is being followed closely by the United States and its NATO allies.
> 
> I think its something that everybody is watching, said Jeffrey D. Feltman, assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs, visiting here on Wednesday. First of all the Libyan people themselves are talking about this. The highest-ranking American official to visit Libya since Colonel Qaddafis fall, Mr. Feltman was optimistic that Libya would take a moderate path.
> 
> Based on our discussions with Libyans so far, he said, we arent concerned that one group is going to be able to dominate the aftermath of what has been a shared struggle by the Libyan people.
> 
> Mr. Sallabi, in an interview, made it clear that he and his followers wanted to build a political party based on Islamic principles that would come to power through democratic elections. But if the party failed to attract widespread support, he said, so be it.
> 
> It is the peoples revolution, and all the people are Muslims, Islamists, Mr. Sallabi said. Secularists are our brothers and they are Libyans.
> 
> They have the right to offer their proposals and programs, he said, and if the Libyan people choose them I have no problem. We believe in democracy and the peaceful exchange of power.
> 
> Many Libyans say they are not worried. The Islamists are organized so they seem more influential than their real weight, said Usama Endar, a management consultant who was among the wealthy Tripolitans who helped finance the revolution. They dont have wide support, and when the dust settles, only those with large-scale appeal, without the tunnel vision of the Islamists, will win.
> 
> Yet an anti-Islamist, anti-Sallabi rally in Martyrs Square on Wednesday drew only a few dozen demonstrators.
> 
> Many, like Aref Nayed, coordinator of the Transitional National Councils stabilization team and a prominent religious scholar, say that the revolution had proved that Libyans would not accept anything but a democratic society, and that the Islamists would have to adapt to that.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/15/w...f=africa&gwh=3F26EE5E4C79D5E9C45C342DA1727692


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Fighters Advance On Gaddafi Toward Bani Walid 








> SIRTE, Libya  Libyan revolutionary forces escalated offensives Friday into two key strongholds of Moammar Gadhafi's rule, but met stiff resistance from snipers and loyalist gunners in Gadhafi's hometown and a mountain enclave where a pro-regime radio station urged followers to fight to the end.
> 
> The assault on Gadhafi's Mediterranean birthplace of Sirte and the strategic mountain town of Bani Walid appeared to be a coordinated campaign to break the back of regime holdouts. The attacks came as powerful revolutionary backers from the West and Muslim world urged on the anti-Gadhafi forces.
> 
> Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan joined Friday prayers in the heart of the capital Tripoli a day after the French and British leaders traveled to Libya. Supporters of Libya's interim government have stepped up calls to establish legitimacy and start rebuilding the country even as Gadhafi remains on the run and his followers try to hold their ground.
> 
> In Sirte  the hub of a loyalist belt across Libya's central coast  revolutionary units pressed their attack on two fronts with convoys that include vehicles mounted with anti-aircraft guns. Loyalist responded with sniper attacks and rocket barrages.
> 
> Smoke rise from parts of the city, where the green flags of Gadhafi's regime flew from mosques and buildings. The Misrata Military Council, which is coordinating the revolutionary offensive, said anti-Gadhafi forces had control of the old airport on the western edge of Sirte.
> 
> NATO warplanes swept overhead, but is was unclear whether there were fresh airstrikes to help the anti-Gadhadi advance.
> 
> The military alliance said it struck multiple rocket launchers, air missile systems, armored vehicles and a military storage facility in Sirte on Thursday when revolutionary units launched the offensive.
> 
> Abdel Salam, a fighter on the frontline near Sirte, said his side lost 11 men late Thursday when their bus drove over a roadside bomb. He said at least 18 fighters were detained by Gadhafi loyalists after they were ambushed at the entrance of Sirte.
> 
> "We reached inside Sirte and then retreated," Salam said before anti-Gadhafi forces mobilized a stronger offensive Friday.
> 
> About 150 miles (250 kilometers) to the west in Bani Walid, revolutionary fighters using pickup trucks mounted with heavy weapons tried to break through strong defensive lines. Explosions and gunfire reverberated across the area.
> 
> One of the fighters, Hisham Nseir, said the frontline is "very heated and chaotic" and his troops were meeting with heavy resistance from Gadhafi's men.
> 
> Commander Abdullah Abu-Asara told The Associated Press that his men were just over a mile (two kilometers) from the heart of Bani Walid, which is ringed by mountains and only accessible through a valley that is watched over by pro-Gadhafi marksmen.
> 
> As the revolutionary forces advanced, the fighters erected the new Libyan flag over an abandoned electricity building and a military headquarters in the northern part of Bani Walid. Around the buildings lay a huge Gadhafi poster bent in half and torn billboards with pictures of the ousted dictator. The walls were still sprayed with graffiti reading, "Long live Moammar."
> 
> Anti-Gadhafi forces also took strategic mortar positions, firing shells at the central square in Bani Walid that include a Gadhafi residence built on the former site of an Ottoman-era fort.
> 
> "Today is the first day that we have completely taken over this part of Bani Walid," said fighter Abul-Asara. "We are staying here."
> 
> Inside the town  about 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli  a radio station believed linked to one of Gadhafi's main propagandist kept up a steady stream of appeals to fight and rants that demonized the revolutionaries as traitors against the country and Islam.
> 
> "Run from Bani Walid and you run straight to your graves," shouts one man over the radio.
> 
> Another portrayed the revolutionaries as trampling Muslim values.
> 
> "These revolutionaries are fighting to drink and do drugs all the time and be like the West, dance all night," the announcer claimed. "We are a traditional tribal society that refuses such things and must fight it."
> 
> On a third front, British warplanes conducted airstrikes Thursday in and around Sabha in Libya's southern desert, including a military vehicle depot used by pro-Gadhafi units.
> 
> Maj. Gen. Nick Pope, a British military spokesman, said a dozen missiles were fired on a "large concentration of former regime armored vehicles" that had been located by NATO surveillance.
> 
> As battles intensified, Libya's interim leadership has been pushing forward with efforts to form a new government.
> 
> Erdogan was greeted at the airport by Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, the head of the National Transitional Council, the closest thing Libya has to a government. He traveled to Libya as part of a tour of the Arab world, including Egypt and Tunisia, that is aimed at offering help for the countries and advancing his growing status as a regional leader.
> 
> He was expected to discuss how to resume investments in Libya, where Turkish contractors were involved in 214 building projects worth more than $15 billion before the rebellion that ousted Gadhafi.
> 
> Erdogan's tour comes as once-strong ties between Turkey and Israel are unraveling due to Israel's refusal to apologize for its raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla that killed nine pro-Palestinian activists last year.



Libya: Fighters Advance On Gaddafi Toward Bani Walid


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's Revolution Produces a New Hybrid: Pro-Western Islamists








> The Libyan rebels chuckle when they find a child-sized T-shirt featuring a cartoon of Osama bin Laden amid the surveillance files, tapes and photos in one of the buildings abandoned by Col. Muammar Gaddafi's internal security forces. Sporting thick, bushy beards in a fresh show of religiosity they say never would have been tolerated under the old regime, they have mixed feelings about the man on the T-shirt. "Fighting in the name of Islam is something that all Muslims respect," says Mukhtar Enhaysi, carefully. "But when [Bin Laden] makes explosions and commits acts of terrorism against civilians who have nothing to do with that, no one agrees with that."
> 
> Enhaysi's nuanced view is commonplace in a country whose citizens are suddenly free to express themselves, although the subtle Islamist current in the rebellion has worried some of its Western backers. Rebel forces in Tripoli are commanded by a former associate of Bin Laden, who the CIA had sent to Libya for questioning and torture by Gaddafi's regime. And the leader of the rebel Transitional National Council has called for a constitution guided by Islamic values, reflecting popular sentiment in a country whose people describe themselves as conservative, and who have endured 42 years of enforced  albeit, many say, superficial  secularism under Gaddafi, even as he tried to style himself as the nemesis of the West.
> 
> Interim leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil told a cheering crowd in Tripoli's Martyr's Square this week that, "We seek a state of law, prosperity and one where Sharia [Islamic law] is the main source for legislation, and this requires many things and conditions," adding that "extremist ideology" would not be tolerated.
> 
> Indeed, for a citizenry that views itself as inherently more conservative than its Egyptian and Tunisian neighbors, it shouldn't be surprising that Libya's interim leaders are already emphasizing the Islamic character of their future government. But many say that Gaddafi's legacy  and NATO's recent intervention  has also paved the way for a different kind of Islamist than the type that Washington has long feared. "The fact that Gaddafi used [the West] as a common enemy, well, the saying 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' holds very true here," says one official in the National Transitional Council (NTC), speaking on condition of anonymity. "If you compound that with the fact that the Westerners were instrumental in their support [of the rebels] and in the demise of Gaddafi, you see that people are really quite friendly."
> 
> On Thursday, Britain's David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy became the first Western Heads of State to visit liberated Tripoli, where they were given a warm welcome by Libya's Transitional Authorities. "The Libyans will not forget the 19th of March, when the international community acted to protect Libya and pass a no-fly zone," Jalil said at a joint press conference. He promised a close friendship going forward. And it's kind of paradox that has become increasingly evident on Libya's streets in recent weeks. Across rebel-controlled territory, Libyans are becoming more expressively religious; holding Islamist group meetings and discussions on the management of mosque funding even as they verbalize an enthusiasm for NATO rare in the Arab world. To that end, Abdel Hakim Belhaj, the former jihadist rebel commander in Tripoli, has disavowed extremism and pledged tolerance toward other religions, despite recently discovered Libyan government documents that corroborate his story of rendition by the CIA. "I'm not motivated by revenge against those who did that," he told TIME. "We are very close to our European neighbors, and we want good relations with those countries, both economically and even in security." The idea of an Islamist-led democracy may jar with post-9/11 thinking in the West, but not necessarily in the Muslim world. "It's not something we're inventing," says the NTC official, citing Turkey and Qatar  although the latter, despite its support for the rebellion, can't exactly be called a democracy.
> 
> "Generally, in the West, they confuse Islamist with Bin Laden," says Saleh Ibrahim, a Libyan journalist, exiting one of Tripoli's largest mosques following the Friday noon prayer. "I think a moderate government will be put in place that will reflect Islamic values, but it won't be extremist."
> 
> Most Libyans are Sunni Muslim, meaning there's little risk of sectarian conflict  although tribal and regional schisms have been visible even within the rebellion. And there have been signs of a rift between "Islamists" and "secularists" in the NTC. The so-called secularists dominate its executive committee, and include the U.S.-educated acting Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril and Ali Tarhouni, the finance and oil minister who left his job as an economics professor in the U.S. to join the rebellion.



Read more: Libya's Revolution Produces a New Hybrid: Pro-Western Islamists - TIME


----------



## Uncensored2008

Time is putting lipstick on a pig and claiming it's a fashion model.

There is NOTHING "pro-western" about the Islamists.. In a year, the rulers of Libya will be indistinguishable from the Taliban.


----------



## High_Gravity

Uncensored2008 said:


> Time is putting lipstick on a pig and claiming it's a fashion model.
> 
> There is NOTHING "pro-western" about the Islamists.. In a year, the rulers of Libya will be indistinguishable from the Taliban.



I don't know if they will be like the Taliban but this pro western thing definently won't last, they loved us in Kuwait and Saudi a year after the Gulf war but than went back to hating us right after. I don't think its possible to be an Islamist and be pro western at the same time, thats like trying to be a nun and be a porn star at the same time.


----------



## High_Gravity

Anti-Gaddafi Forces Push To Capture Sirte, Bani Walid 



> TRIPOLI, Libya -- Facing little resistance, revolutionary fighters captured the airport and other locations in a southern desert city that is considered one of the last remaining strongholds of Moammar Gadhafi's forces, fighters said.
> 
> The capture of Sabha would be a major victory for Libya's new rulers, who have struggled to rout forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi a month after sweeping into Tripoli and forcing the ousted leader into hiding.
> 
> A push to capture Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte and the mountain enclave of Bani Walid have stalled as well-armed forces loyal to the fugitive leader have fought back fiercely with rockets and other heavy weaponry.
> 
> "Our flags are waving there over the airport and other parts of Sabha," Col. Ahmed Bani, the military spokesman for the transitional government, told reporters in Tripoli.
> 
> The airport is about four miles from the center of Sabha, 400 miles (650 kilometers) south of Tripoli.
> 
> Salam Kara, the Benghazi-based spokesman for Sabha's local council, said revolutionary forces also had seized an old fort as well as a convention center and a hospital inside the city.



Anti-Gaddafi Forces Push To Capture Sirte, Bani Walid


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: NATO Says Gaddafi Fighters Continue To Be Threat 








> TUNIS, Tunisia  Tunisia's Interior Ministry says Libya's former prime minister under Moammar Gadhafi has been arrested.
> 
> Al-Baghdadi al-Mahmoudi was arrested overnight in the southern town of Tameghza, near Tunisia's border with Algeria, according to ministry spokesman Hichem Meddeb.
> 
> Meddeb said Thursday two others were detained along with al-Mahmoudi after Tunisian officials found none had visas.
> 
> Gadhafi remains at large, and his whereabouts unknown. His supporters remain well-armed and fighting is still raging on three fronts in Libya.



Libya: NATO Says Gaddafi Fighters Continue To Be Threat


----------



## High_Gravity

NATO authorizes extending Libya mission 90 days








> Reporting from London and Tripoli, Libya Leaders of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization authorized a 90-day extension of the alliance's aerial mission over Libya on Wednesday, raising the prospect that U.S. and allied troops could be involved in the North African nation until Christmas.
> 
> But NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen emphasized that the alliance could call home its forces "at any time" if international authorities and the new Libyan government determine that NATO's help is no longer necessary.
> 
> "This decision sends a clear message to the Libyan people: We will be there for as long as necessary but not a day longer, while you take your future in your hands to ensure a safe transition to the new Libya," Rasmussen said.
> 
> He said the alliance had been "remarkably successful" in executing a United Nations mandate to protect civilians, despite criticism that NATO's warplanes and aerial bombing campaign routinely crossed the line into actively assisting revolutionary forces in their effort to topple Libya's longtime strongman, Moammar Kadafi.
> 
> NATO took over enforcement of a no-fly zone over Libya in March, with an initial deadline for the mission at the end of June. A three-month extension was set to expire next week, but Wednesday's decision renewed the operation until the end of December.
> 
> NATO fighter jets have flown more than 20,000 sorties over Libya in the last six months, dropping thousands of bombs to take out Kadafi's command centers and military materiel. The alliance has reported no serious casualties in its air campaign, though Kadafi's government alleged that the bombing killed hundreds of civilians and NATO has acknowledged several mistaken bombings of rebel forces.
> 
> With the erstwhile rebels now preparing to form a government in Tripoli, Washington has sent its former ambassador back to the Libyan capital to reopen the U.S. Embassy, which was shut down for the duration of the battle between Kadafi and his foes for control of the oil-rich nation.
> 
> Ambassador Gene Cretz returned to Libya on Wednesday. Appointed to the post in 2007 by former President George W. Bush, Cretz became the first U.S. ambassador to Tripoli after decades of diplomatic estrangement between the two countries.
> 
> In July, Washington recognized the anti-Kadafi Transitional National Council, then based in the city of Benghazi, as Libya's legitimate governing authority.
> 
> Meanwhile, reports Wednesday indicated that Libya's new rulers were close to winning full control of the southern desert crossroads city of Sabha, long a stronghold of support for Kadafi and the site of recent clashes.
> 
> A government takeover of Sabha probably would restrict escape opportunities for Kadafi and any associates still in Libya. The Saharan city is on the route to several neighboring nations, including Niger, where many Kadafi aides, along with his son Saadi, have already sought refuge.



NATO authorizes extending Libya mission for 90 days - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Gene Cretz, U.S. Ambassador, Returns To Tripoli 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  The U.S. ambassador to Libya returned to Tripoli Wednesday to lead a newly reopened American Embassy in a post-Moammar Gadhafi era.
> 
> Ambassador Gene Cretz arrived in Tripoli, a day before plans to raise the U.S. flag over the embassy building in the Libyan capital. It was about eight months after he left for consultations in Washington in January after WikiLeaks posted his opinions of Gadhafi's personal life and habits in a classified 2009 diplomatic cable. At the time, the Obama administration was considering replacing him due in part to strains in ties caused by the blunt assessment.
> 
> Cretz returns to a country much changed since revolutionary forces seized control of Tripoli and forced the authoritarian leader into hiding after an uprising that began in mid-February.
> 
> Cretz was nominated to be the first U.S. ambassador to Libya in 36 years by President George W. Bush in July 2007 after a remarkable turnaround in U.S. relations with the North African nation.
> 
> The seismic shift in ties followed Gadhafi's 2003 renunciation of weapons of mass destruction and payment of compensation to the families of victims of 1980s terror attacks, including the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, blamed on Libyan agents.
> 
> Cretz had kept a relatively low profile in Libya until November, when WikiLeaks posted his assessments of Gadhafi's personal life and habits in a classified 2009 diplomatic cable.
> 
> The secret document said Gadhafi "appears to have an intense dislike or fear of staying on upper floors, reportedly prefers not to fly over water, and seems to enjoy horse racing and flamenco dancing." It also discussed Gadhafi's longtime reliance on a Ukrainian nurse named Galyna who the cable said had been described as a "voluptuous blonde."
> 
> President Barack Obama announced Tuesday that the ambassador would return, telling Libyans: "This is your chance. And today the world is saying, with one unmistakable voice, we will stand with you."
> 
> The United States, along with its NATO allies, launched the military air campaign that helped rout Gadhafi's forces after the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution in March authorizing a no-fly zone and approving all necessary steps needed to protect civilians. NATO later took charge of the mission.
> 
> On Wednesday, NATO's decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, granted approval to extend the mission for another 90 days, an alliance official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because a formal statement had not yet been prepared. Without an extension, permission for the operation would have expired Sept. 27.
> 
> While many in the nation of 6 million people are enjoying newfound freedoms, well-armed Gadhafi loyalists are still fighting on three fronts, and Libya's new rulers are struggling to form a government.
> 
> The National Transitional Council, which led the rebellion and is the closest thing Libya has to a government, failed Sunday to seat a new Cabinet, dashing hopes a new government would be in place before the interim leadership left to represent Libya at the U.N. General Assembly this week.
> 
> In New York, the NTC's prime minister, Mahmoud Jibril, said Tuesday he expected a new government to be formed "within a week, 10 days maximum from now."
> 
> He said most of the work has been done, but it was important to ensure national consensus on the issue. The current political difficulties were not unusual for a "country which was absent from ... any democratic culture," he said.
> 
> Gadhafi wielded near-total control over the North African nation for nearly 42 years. The uprising  inspired by the successful ouster of autocratic leaders in Tunisia and Egypt  spread from the eastern city of Benghazi in mid-February.
> 
> Armed fighters still loyal to the fugitive leader have repelled anti-Gadhafi forces in Sirte, the desert town of Bani Walid and the southern area of Sabha.
> 
> Government forces have made inroads against Gadhafi loyalists in Sabha, the last major city on a key road leading south to the border with Niger.
> 
> Abdel-Salam Sikayer, a spokesman for a local council in Sabha, said anti-Gadhafi forces largely have control over two neighborhoods and are fighting to overtake pockets of resistance. He said 28 people, including three children, had been killed in fighting over the past two days  18 on Tuesday and 10 on Monday.



Libya: Gene Cretz, U.S. Ambassador, Returns To Tripoli


----------



## Jos

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kargNcnpb0&feature=player_embedded&skipcontrinter=1]Terrifying NATO Cluster Bomb in Libya - Raw Footage - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: NATO Strikes Sirte, Gaddafi Hometown 









> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libya's transitional justice minister says he has approved a measure to abolish the country's state security prosecution and courts.
> 
> Mohammed al-Alagi, part of Libya's new leadership after the ouster of Moammar Gadhafi, said Monday he has signed a document that will disband the bodies that sentenced opponents of the old regime to prison.
> 
> THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
> 
> SIRTE, Libya (AP)  Hundreds of civilians fled Moammar Gadhafi's hometown Monday to escape growing shortages of food and medicine and escalating fears that their homes will be struck during fighting between revolutionary forces and regime loyalists.
> 
> Anti-Gadhafi fighters launched their offensive against Sirte nearly two weeks ago, but have faced fierce resistance from loyalists holed up inside the city. After a bloody push into Sirte again over the weekend, revolutionary fighters say they have pulled back to plan their assault and allow civilians more time to flee.
> 
> NATO, which has played a key role in decimating Gadhafi's military during the Libyan civil war, has kept up its air campaign since the fall of Tripoli last month. The alliance said Monday its warplanes struck eight military targets near Sirte a day earlier, including an ammunition and vehicle storage facility and rocket launcher.
> 
> Sirte, 250 miles (400 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli on the Mediterranean coast, is one of the last remaining bastions of Gadhafi loyalists since revolutionary fighters stormed into the capital last month, ending Gadhafi's nearly 42-year rule and sending him into hiding. The fugitive leader's supporters also remain in control of the town of Bani Walid, southeast of Tripoli, and pockets of territory in the country's south.
> 
> But even as fighting continues, Libyans have been working to restore a sense of normalcy in the North African nation of some 6 million people.
> 
> In a boost to the economy, Italian energy giant Eni said Monday it has resumed oil production in Libya after months of interruption for the civil war, tapping 15 wells and producing some 31,900 barrels of oil per day. French energy company Total said it restarted some production last week.
> 
> Libya's economic future could hinge on the performance of its lucrative oil and gas sectors, whose production ground to a halt during this year's insurgency against Gadhafi.
> 
> Libya sits atop Africa's largest proven reserves of conventional crude, and raked in $40 billion last year from oil and gas exports. Still, experts say it could take about a year or more to get Libya back to its pre-war production of 1.6 million barrels a day.
> 
> British Trade Minister Stephen Green also visited Tripoli and said his country's businesses are eager to take part in the rebuilding of Libya and will also assist with British expertise. But he said no strategic decisions would be made in Libya until the country has completed writing a new constitution and an elected government is in place.
> 
> Libya's new leaders have struggled to form a new interim Cabinet that could guide the country to elections.
> 
> The country's de facto prime minister, Mahmoud Jibril, meanwhile, asked the U.N. Security Council to lift some of the economic sanctions on his country but said NATO should stay until civilians are no longer being killed.
> 
> Civilians fleeing Sirte Monday described grave shortages of food, fuel, drinking water and medicine.
> 
> Eman Mohammed, a 30-year-old doctor at the city's central Ibn Sina Hospital, said the facility was short on most medicines and had no oxygen in the operating rooms. She said most days, patients who reach the hospital find no one to treat them because fuel shortages and fear keep staff from coming to work.
> 
> She said many recent injuries appear to be caused by revolutionary forces. "Most of the people killed or injured recently are from the shelling," she said.
> 
> Forces on the city's outskirts fire tank shells, Grad rockets and mortar rounds toward the city daily with little more than a general idea of what they are targeting. NATO, meanwhile, is operating in Libya under a mandate to protect civilians.
> 
> Mohammed, who is from the Warfala tribe that has traditionally supported Gadhafi, said most of the fighters in the city are armed volunteers fighting for personal reasons.
> 
> "There is a bloody aspect to it," she said, standing at a rebel checkpoint outside the city. "Many people died in the battlefield as martyrs, so their relatives are angry. It doesn't have to do with Gadhafi anymore. It's more about revenge than about anything else."
> 
> She said she didn't expect the fighters to surrender easily.



Libya: NATO Strikes Sirte, Gaddafi Hometown


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Gaddafi Hiding In Southern Desert, Says Official 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  An anti-Gadhafi field commander says the top military official for revolutionary forces fighting loyalists in a key regime stronghold has been killed in a rocket attack.
> 
> Osama al-Fasi says the commander, Daw Saleheen, was killed Wednesday by a heat-seeking rocket while fighting in Bani Walid, southeast of Tripoli.
> 
> Saleheen was imprisoned for more than 20 years by Moammar Gadhafi's regime and was leading anti-Gadhafi forces in their battle for Bani Walid, one of the last remaining bastions of Gadhafi loyalists since the fall of Tripoli more than a month ago.
> 
> THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
> 
> TRIPOLI, Libya (AP)  Libya's new rulers believe Moammar Gadhafi may be hiding in the southern desert, possibly in a vast area near the Algerian border, under the protection of ethnic Tuareg fighters, an official said Wednesday.
> 
> Abdel-Rahman Busin, a military spokesman in Tripoli, also said revolutionary forces knew Gadhafi's son, Seif al-Islam, was in the regime stronghold of Bani Walid two weeks ago because they held negotiations about his possible surrender. But he said the talks had broken down and it was not known whether he was still in the town.
> 
> Revolutionary forces gained control of Tripoli and much of the rest of the North African nation late last month, but Gadhafi fled and has been trying to rally supporters from hiding as fighting continues on three fronts. His sons also escaped and there have been several unconfirmed reports about their whereabouts.
> 
> Military officials fear Gadhafi may still be able to stoke violence from his hiding place.
> 
> Busin said the military has intelligence that Gadhafi is hiding in the vast southern desert with help from Tuareg fighters. Ethnic Tuaregs, whose nomadic community spans the desert border of Niger, Mali, Libya, Algeria and Chad, are among Gadhafi's strongest remaining supporters.
> 
> "We do believe that he is somewhere in that region and we do know that Tuaregs are supporting him, probably because he's paying them," Busin said.
> 
> He did not offer evidence and acknowledged the military cannot confirm anything.
> 
> "It's a very large bit of land to cover. We don't have the people to cover it all and he could move around quite freely," Busin told The Associated Press.
> 
> One report suggested Gadhafi was southwest of the desert town of Sabha, Busin said. He also said a recent attack on the border town of Ghadamis raised suspicion that the fugitive leader was hiding in the surrounding region, a vast area near the Algerian frontier. "Possibly they were just creating a diversion," he said.
> 
> Pro-Gadhafi gunmen crossed the border from Algeria to attack revolutionary forces in Ghadamis last week, killing at least nine people, local officials said.
> 
> Ali al-Mana, the Ghadamis representative on the National Transitional Council, said there was no confirmation that Gadhafi was in the city.
> 
> Many Libyans believe Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam and other regime members are holed up in Bani Walid, 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, where revolutionary fighters have been stalemated with loyalist fighters for weeks.
> 
> Busin said anti-Gadhafi forces had confirmation Seif al-Islam was in Bani Walid a couple weeks ago but talks about his possible surrender had broken down and his location was no longer known.
> 
> On Tuesday, Syrian-based Al-Rai TV, which has become the former regime's mouthpiece, aired video of Seif al-Islam that it said was taken last week. The same video, however, appears to have been uploaded to YouTube on March 6. A second YouTube video appears to show the same event with an upload date of Feb. 27, less than two weeks after the Libyan uprising began.
> 
> Seif al-Islam's last known public appearance was on Aug. 23 in Tripoli. Like his father, he has been charged by the International Criminal Court with crimes against humanity for the regime's bloody efforts to crush the uprising.
> 
> Revolutionary fighters also have been unable to rout regime forces from Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte on the Mediterranean coast. Libyan fighters pounded regime positions in the city with rocket and artillery fire on Wednesday, sending a black cloud of smoke over Sirte's low-slung skyline.



Libya: Gaddafi Hiding In Southern Desert, Says Official


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Leaders Promise New Government After Qaddafi Hometown Is Captured



> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libyas provisional leaders said Monday that they would resign once the vestiges of armed support for Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi in his hometown city of Surt are defeated, a move that would clear the way for a new interim government that would run the country until elections can be held.
> 
> The announcement suggested that the Transitional National Council, as the provisional government is known, had redefined its version of victory in the eight-month-old conflict against Colonel Qaddafi, the quixotic former ruler who fled underground in late August when anti-Qaddafi forces overran Tripoli.
> 
> Previously the council had said it would not declare the conflict to be officially over until the country was pacified and Colonel Qaddafi and his top aides were either arrested, killed or confirmed out of the country. Now, however, the council appears to have narrowed the criterion for victory to the conquest of Surt, the last significant enclave of Qaddafi loyalists, on the Mediterranean coast.
> 
> The whereabouts of Colonel Qaddafi and two of his most influential sons, Seif al-Islam and Muatassim, remain unclear.
> 
> The announcement was made by the head of the council, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, and the temporary prime minister, Mahmoud Jibril, at a news conference in the eastern city of Benghazi, where the armed uprising against Colonel Qaddafi took root in February. The provisional leaders also announced some minor changes in the ministries run by the council, including the creation of a new ministry responsible for dealing with victims of the conflict.
> 
> Mr. Jalil was quoted by news services at the Benghazi news conference as saying that within a month after Surt is captured, a new interim government would be named. He also was quoted as saying that both he and Mr. Jibril had pledged to not take part in any future government in any way.
> 
> Both men had said previously that they intended to relinquish their posts, but their statement Monday offered more specifics about the timing. It came against a backdrop of increased political infighting among leaders of the anti-Qaddafi forces that has undermined the Transitional National Councils efforts to stabilize Libya and return it to some semblance of normalcy after Colonel Qaddafis downfall.
> 
> Armed militias from different parts of the country have flooded into Tripoli since the former leaders exit and have basically divided the capital into fiefdoms. While the council is now widely recognized abroad as the new authority in Libya, its main foreign supporters, including the United States, have made clear that they consider regional rivalries, the uncontrolled spread of dangerous weapons looted from Colonel Qaddafis armories and the potential influence of militant Islamic groups in Libya to be threats to its future stability.
> 
> Council officials reported Monday that some progress had been made in efforts by anti-Qaddafi fighters to advance into Surt, but there was no immediate indication of a decisive turn in that contested city.
> 
> In Tripoli, a former Libyan Jewish exile who had returned from Italy and attracted some publicity on Sunday by attempting to reopen the citys main synagogue, shuttered early in Colonel Qaddafis four-decade rule, said Monday he had been warned to stop the effort. The former exile, David Gerbi, 56, said men stationed outside the Dar al-Bishi synagogue told him he might be attacked if he and a group of volunteer helpers tried to renovate the house of worship, which had become a repository for garbage.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/w...-after-qaddafi-hometown-captured.html?_r=1&hp


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Anti-Gaddafi Fighters Fire Rockets In Sirte, Hundreds Of Residents Flee 








> SIRTE, Libya  Libyan revolutionary forces fired rockets into the western half of Moammar Gadhafi's hometown Tuesday even as hundreds of residents streamed out of the city to flee the fighting.
> 
> Anti-Gadhafi fighters launched their offensive against Sirte last month, but have faced fierce resistance from regime loyalists holed up inside. The battle for the city has become the focal point of efforts to rout die-hard supporters of Gadhafi, whose whereabouts remains unknown more than six weeks since Tripoli's fall.
> 
> Nouri al-Naari, a doctor at a field hospital in a mosque on Sirte's outskirts, said that two anti-Gadhafi fighters had been killed and 28 wounded in intense battles in Sirte on Monday.
> 
> Amid concerns about a humanitarian crisis, the International Committee of the Red Cross said its staff had crossed the front lines and delivered urgently needed oxygen and other medical supplies to the hospital in Sirte on Monday. They also evacuated a Dutch nurse who had been working there.
> 
> Aid workers also are providing food and other items for thousands of people who have fled Sirte.
> 
> Libya's de facto Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril said Monday that Sirte, some 250 miles (400 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli on the Mediterranean coast, must be seized before the transitional leadership can declare victory and set a timeline in motion for elections for a formal government. Fighting also continues in the town of Bani Walid and in pockets in the south, but Jibril said Sirte's capture would mean the main entry ports to the country were secure.
> 
> He and the head of the National Transitional Council, which is governing the country, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil have pledged not to take part in any future government.
> 
> Revolutionary forces have seized Tripoli and much of the rest of the country, but they have been locked in a standoff over Sirte and Bani Walid for weeks. NATO also continues to hit the loyalist strongholds with airstrikes.
> 
> Tayib Oraibi, a field commander from Tripoli, said the main obstacle facing the fighters now in Sirte is the Ouagadougou conference center, which is the main base for Gadhafi loyalists inside the city.
> 
> On Monday, revolutionary forces said they had seized the village of Abu Hadi south of Sirte  a strategically important victory because it cuts off a key supply route for Gadhafi forces, according to Salah Mohammed, another field commander from the nearby city of Misrata.
> 
> Families, meanwhile, streamed out of the city in cars packed with mattresses and other household items.
> 
> Fatima Gadhafi, 35, described rapidly deteriorating living conditions as she fled with her four children after her cousin's daughter died when a tank shell fell on the house. She said there's very little food or drinking water.
> 
> She said there were no army forces or checkpoints on the streets and revolutionary forces had refused to let them talk to the Red Cross.
> 
> The Geneva-based ICRC and its Libyan counterpart have stepped up efforts to help the thousands of people trying to escape as well as those trapped in the city.
> 
> The ICRC delivered 50 oxygen cylinders and other medical supplies for the hospital to medical staff and representatives of civil society in Sirte on Monday.
> 
> "The situation on the ground was very tense with ongoing fighting," Hichem Khadraoui, the ICRC delegate in charge of the operation, said in a statement.
> 
> "Under such conditions, we had to limit ourselves  after obtaining clearances from all the parties concerned  to bringing in the most urgently needed humanitarian aid without further assessing needs. We hope to return soon," he added.
> 
> Efforts to get Libya's oil industry back on its feet also continued.



Libya: Anti-Gaddafi Fighters Fire Rockets In Sirte, Hundreds Of Residents Flee


----------



## freedombecki

High Gravity, do you think there will be peace in Libya anytime soon? The civil war just seems to keep on keeping on.


----------



## High_Gravity

freedombecki said:


> High Gravity, do you think there will be peace in Libya anytime soon? The civil war just seems to keep on keeping on.



Well this is a still relatively new rebellion, this only started in March so in the grand scheme of things is fairly new. I really can't say when all of this will end, this has turned into a tribal fight now against Gaddafis tribe and the tribes loyal to it, civil wars in countries like Algeria and Yemen lasted decades, Algeria has reached some semblance of peace but Yemen is still struggling, even more so than before. Libya has more resources than both Algeria and Yemen and the international community has investments there, so they will get the help they need to turn things around, so thats one positive thing.


----------



## High_Gravity

Leon Panetta: NATO Libya Mission Can't End Before Fighting 








> CAIRO  NATO's mission in Libya isn't over so long as fighting continues, including in Moammar Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Tuesday.
> 
> "As long as there is fighting that continues in Libya, I suspect that the NATO mission will continue," Panetta said ahead of meetings later this week with other NATO defense chiefs.
> 
> Revolutionary forces supported by NATO airstrikes have seized Tripoli and much of the rest of the country, but they have been locked in a standoff over Sirte and Bani Walid for weeks. NATO airstrikes have continued on those loyalist strongholds.
> 
> Anti-Gadhafi fighters launched their offensive against Sirte last month, but have faced fierce resistance from regime loyalists holed up inside. The battle for the city has become the focal point of efforts to rout die-hard supporters of Gadhafi, whose whereabouts remains unknown more than six weeks since Tripoli's fall.
> 
> Libyan revolutionary forces fired rockets into the western half of Sirte on Tuesday while hundreds of residents streamed out of the city to flee the fighting.
> 
> "I think the fighting has to end," before NATO can withdraw, Panetta told reporters traveling with him in the Mideast and Europe. "They can't continue to have the level of fighting that they're still having there and be able to turn to the kind of governance and issues that they're going to have to confront in order to establish stability."



Leon Panetta: NATO Libya Mission Can't End Before Fighting


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Sirte Hit By Intense Fighting, Eight Killed 








> SIRTE, Libya  Revolutionary fighters on Friday assaulted a convention center in the heart of Sirte that forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi turned into their main base, in what commanders said was a final offensive to crush resistance in the holdout city after weeks of siege.
> 
> The forces of Libya's new rulers were pushing into the Mediterranean coastal city from the west, east and south in heavy fighting, trying to squeeze Gadhafi loyalists into a smaller and smaller perimeter. The two sides battered each other with rockets, mortar shells and tank fire, as Gadhafi snipers fired down on fighters advancing through housing complexes. Friday's push marks the largest new assault on the city for weeks.
> 
> "We started the attack at 6 a.m. today. The first group hit the outskirts of Sirte. We were fired on by Gadhafi snipers. We had many soldiers wounded," said commander Altaib Aleroebi of the ex-rebels' West Mountain Brigade, which led the morning attack on the western front.
> 
> At least eight revolutionary fighters were killed and 125 were wounded, doctors said. Ambulances sped down Sirte's main avenue to a field hospital set up in an abandoned villa five miles (eight kilometers) from the center. Doctors said a senior commander, Ali Saeh of the Free Libya Brigade, was injured, shot twice by a sniper as he led fighters through loyalist forces in a residential area.
> 
> "We are receiving many gunshot wounds, mostly to the head, neck and chest from sniper fire. We have received many injured today," Dr. Ahmed Mohammed Tantoun said Friday, adding he expects many more injured fighters to arrive through the day as fighting intensifies.
> 
> Sirte, Gadhafi's home city, is considered the most crucial of the areas that remain in the hands of supporters of the former Libyan leader, more than a month after revolutionaries swept into Tripoli and ousted him from power.
> 
> Leaders of the interim government have said that once Sirte falls they can start a timetable for elections. Sirte is key to the physical unity of the country, since it lies roughly in the center of the coastal plain where the majority of Libya's 6.5 million people live, blocking the easiest routes between east and west. Gadhafi loyalists, however, still control another major city, Bani Walid, in the central mountains, and Sabha deep in the deserts of the south.
> 
> Revolutionary fighters have been besieging Sirte for three weeks, facing grueling resistance as they inched their way in, let residents flee and simultaneously moved to encircle the city before the final assault. Gadhafi's loyalists have been barricaded in the Ouagadougou Center, a grandiose conference hall that Gadhafi built in the city to host international summits. From there they have been able to dominate the defense of surrounding residential areas.
> 
> As the attack continued, civilians fled the besieged city, which is suffering shortages of food and other essentials. Former rebel fighters checked the contents of their bags and cars.
> 
> "We had to go today ... there is nothing left, no food, no gasoline," said Sirte resident Ahmed Mohammed.



Libya: Sirte Hit By Intense Fighting, Eight Killed


----------



## kola_yusuf

Alarming


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Still Fighting, NATO Surprised 








> BRUSSELS -- The determined resistance by forces loyal to ousted Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is "surprising" because the fighters can't hope to reverse the situation on the battlefield, a NATO spokesman said Tuesday.
> 
> The comments by Col. Roland Lavoie appeared aimed at pressuring the former strongman's troops to lay down their weapons and engage in talks with one-time rebels who now rule the Arab country, thanks largely to NATO firepower.
> 
> Instead, in places such as Sirte, Gadhafi loyalists are still fighting, even though they can no longer be resupplied after the new government's units won control of key parts of the town's center, Lavoie said.
> 
> "So from that perspective, it just does not make sense to see what these few remaining forces are doing," he said. "This could certainly be qualified as surprising both from military and political point of view."
> 
> Critics of NATO's campaign have warned of the danger of protracted armed resistance against the new governing authority led by the National Transitional Council. The NTC has refused repeated attempts by the African Union and others to mediate between the warring parties.
> 
> NATO has said it would end its 7-month-long bombing campaign once it is clear pro-Gadhafi remnants no longer present a significant threat. But for the time being it is keeping up airstrikes, mainly against targets in Sirte, Gadhafi's hometown, and the town of Bani Walid, where pro-Gadhafi forces remain in control.
> 
> The alliance has been criticized for allegedly misusing a U.N. resolution in March authorizing the use of force to protect civilians in Libya to justify months of airstrikes aimed at overthrowing Gadhafi's regime. NATO warplanes have flown about 9,500 strike sorties during that period.
> 
> After a long stalemate, the air raids paved the way for the advance of opposition forces and the capture of Tripoli and other major population centers in the past two months. Opposition forces are now moving on Bani Walid, Lavoie said.
> 
> "We have no evidence of significant pro-Gadhafi presence or activity in the rest of the country," he said.
> 
> The operation in Libya has been cited as proof that the Cold War alliance remains relevant to international security. But the campaign also has revealed deep rifts within the military bloc, only eight of whose 28 members participated. The others stayed away  mostly out of concern of how the new mission would affect the alliance's commitment to Afghanistan.
> 
> Lavoie also said NATO has no information about the thousands of portable surface-to-air missiles that are reportedly missing in Libya.



Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Still Fighting, NATO Surprised


----------



## Jos

NATO bombs?  BLOOD WARNING
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hobDCtmx0xo&feature=player_embedded&skipcontrinter=1]See what happend to this child...NATO & Rebels Crimes in Sirt.wmv - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Tripoli Scene Of New Fighting 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  A gunbattle erupted between revolutionary forces and Moammar Gadhafi supporters Friday in the heart of the Libyan capital for the first time since the longtime leader was ousted and forced into hiding.
> 
> Shouting "God is Great," anti-Gadhafi fighters converged on the Hay Nasr district of Tripoli's Abu Salim neighborhood in pickups mounted with weapons, setting up checkpoints and sealing off the area as heavy gunfire echoed through the streets.
> 
> Fighters at the scene said the shooting began after a group of armed men tried to raise the green flag that symbolizes Gadhafi's regime. There were conflicting details about how the shooting began.
> 
> Assem al-Bashir, a fighter with Tripoli's Eagle Brigade, said revolutionary forces suspected there were snipers in the surrounding high rises after spotting a man trying to raise the green flag.
> 
> Another fighter, Ahmad al-Warsly, from the Zintan brigade, said several Gadhafi supporters apparently planned a protest but drew fire because they were armed. They then fled and were pursued by revolutionary forces, prompting fierce street battles.
> 
> Al-Warsly said one man carrying a gun was captured and identified as a suspect wanted for the killings of protesters in the nearby city of Zawiya.
> 
> "It seems like it was organized," he said. "They were planning to have a big demonstration, then the fight started."
> 
> The violence in the capital, which has been relatively calm since then-rebels seized control of the city in late August, underscored the difficulty Libya's new rulers face in restoring order as Gadhafi remains on the run.



Libya: Tripoli Scene Of New Fighting


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Foreign Secretary William Hague Visits Tripoli As Forces Bulldoze Gaddafi Compound 








> TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) - Britain's foreign secretary called Monday on African countries to turn over wanted senior members of Moammar Gadhafi's regime found on their territory, saying it was very important that the deposed Libyan leader and his associates be brought to justice.
> 
> William Hague made the comments during a visit to Tripoli in which he confirmed the new British ambassador and presided over a flag-raising ceremony at Britain's charred embassy building, which had been attacked by Gadhafi supporters angry over NATO airstrikes.
> 
> "This is further recognition of the great progress the National Transitional Council has made in stabilizing Libya and re-establishing the country's role as a full member of the international community," Hague told reporters, referring to the body ruling the country in the transitional period.
> 
> He also offered more humanitarian aid and raised concerns about reports of human rights abuses by revolutionary forces during a meeting with Libya's interim leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil.
> 
> Gadhafi remains on the run and fighting with his supporters continues on two fronts more than two months after Tripoli fell to revolutionary forces. Some believe he might try to flee to another African country since he cultivated good relations with many of them during his more than four decades in power.
> 
> The International Criminal Court has accused the ousted leader along with his son Seif al-Islam and his former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senoussi of crimes against humanity for unleashing a campaign of murder and torture in an attempt to crush the uprising that broke out in mid-February.
> 
> Hague said it was "very, very important" to bring the men to justice and promised Britain would continue to help in the search, although he didn't elaborate on what was being done.
> 
> "We've already been very active reminding other countries in Africa of their responsibility, their responsibility to apprehend and to hand over to the Libyans or to the International Criminal Court any of these people who go onto their territory," he said. "Of course we don't know where all of them are but we will continue to assist in looking for them."
> 
> Foreign dignitaries have been flocking to the oil-rich North African nation since revolutionary forces swept into Tripoli in late August and seized the reins of power. Britain has taken a lead role in the NATO air campaign that has been critical to the revolutionary successes.
> 
> Despite continued airstrikes and several Libyan offensives, Gadhafi's supporters are still putting up a fierce fight for the leader's hometown of Sirte and the desert enclave of Bani Walid. That has prevented Libya's transitional leaders from announcing full liberation and setting a timeline for elections for a new government.
> 
> Hague announced that John Jenkins was the new ambassador and expressed confidence in the transitional leadership, saying it was "now on the brink of having liberated the country."
> 
> He also said the final shipment of Libyan cash that had been frozen in the United Kingdom because of sanctions imposed on the Gadhafi regime would be returned soon.
> 
> With Libyans struggling to care for an overwhelming number of people wounded in the fighting, Britain said it would accept as many as 50 more Libyan amputees needing prosthetic limbs and other medical care. It also offered help in removing mines and destroying shoulder-fired missiles amid fears of weapons proliferation.
> 
> Britain said it has allocated 40.6 million pounds ($65 million) to support stability as well as political and economic reforms in Libya.
> 
> International rights groups have issued reports documenting cases in which revolutionary forces have mistreated prisoners, especially suspected Gadhafi loyalists. U.N. human rights official Mona Rishmawi said Friday that "there is a lot of room for abuse" of the estimated 7,000 people detained in sometimes makeshift prisons throughout Libya.



Libya: Foreign Secretary William Hague Visits Tripoli As Forces Bulldoze Gaddafi Compound


----------



## High_Gravity

Hillary Clinton In Libya To Offer New Aid Package 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- The Obama administration on Tuesday increased U.S. support for Libya's new leaders as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton made an unannounced visit to Tripoli and pledged millions of dollars in new aid, including medical care for wounded fighters and additional assistance to secure weaponry that many fear could fall into the hands of terrorists.
> 
> U.S. officials said the fresh aid Clinton is bringing totals about $11 million and will boost Washington's contribution to Libya since the uprising against Moammar Gadhafi began in February to roughly $135 million. The officials told reporters traveling with Clinton that it is evidence of the administration's commitment to working with the National Transitional Council as it consolidates control over the entire country and moves to hold free and fair elections.
> 
> Clinton met Tuesday with Mahmoud Jibril, who has taken over as Libya's prime minister, and interim leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil.
> 
> "Now the hard part begins," Clinton said heading into the meeting, a reference to the country's transition to democracy.
> 
> As part of the new aid package, the U.S. will re-launch several educational programs, including Fulbright scholarships and English language training, and help fund an archeological project that will survey eastern Libya, the officials said. In addition, they said Clinton will be stressing the importance of good governance, inclusion, democratization and diversifying Libya's economy so it no longer is almost entirely dependent on oil revenue.
> 
> Officials said Clinton would also raise the case of the Lockerbie bombing with Libyan officials. Last month, Scotland asked Libya's new authorities to help track down those responsible for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over the Scottish town. It killed 270 people, most of them American.
> 
> The only person charged with the bombing  former Libyan intelligence officer Abdel Baset al-Megrahi  was freed on compassionate grounds in 2009 because of illness. His release infuriated the families of many Lockerbie victims.
> 
> The U.S. officials spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of Clinton's public events in Tripoli, which also were to include meetings with civic leaders that have been kept secret for security reasons.
> 
> Most of the new money will go toward finding and destroying thousands of Gadhafi-era shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles that are unaccounted for since the fighting began. Clinton and other senior U.S. officials have repeatedly stressed the importance of dealing with stockpiles of Libyan weapons.
> 
> The State Department already has sent 14 weapons experts to Libya and is looking for other countries to contribute to the effort. The new U.S. contribution of some $10 million means Washington will have spent $40 million on the effort alone since the former rebels began making major military progress, according to the officials.
> 
> The dollar amount of the medical portion of the new assistance is not yet known but will go to a multipronged program to assist former rebel troops badly wounded in fighting with Gadhafi loyalists, the officials said. There have been about 15,000 wounded during the conflict so far, about 1,500 of whom are now amputees and require specialized care that is not available in Libya.
> 
> The medical portion will include transportation to treatment for the most seriously wounded, spare medical parts to fix equipment for trauma care, and chemicals needed to run and drive equipment, the officials said. It also will go to establish a patient tracking program.



Hillary Clinton In Libya To Offer New Aid Package


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: NATO Campaign 'Very Close' To Termination 








> BANI WALID, Libya  Libyan rebels finally in control of a key stronghold of ousted leader Moammar Gadhafi's backers dug up yards in searches for hidden weapons Tuesday, a concrete sign that the months-long battle for Bani Walid was virtually over.
> 
> On another similar front, revolutionary forces launched another assault on Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, hoping to dislodge his dug-in loyalists.
> 
> Libya's new rulers are holding up declaring victory and setting a timetable for elections until both centers are under their control. Gadhafi himself remains in hiding.
> 
> In the capital Tripoli, visiting U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the U.S. wanted to see Gadhafi killed or captured.
> 
> In Bani Walid, field commander Said Younis said fighters were searching for high level Gadhafi loyalists who had escaped to the city, including Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam, one of his closest political aides and spokesman.
> 
> "Seif was seen was on Thursday. He was eating in a desert village close to the city," Younis told The Associated Press.
> 
> Bani Walid is a valley city protected by many steep mountains and valleys, where Gadhafi loyalist snipers took positions during the fiercest battles. Younis said many loyalist fighters have fled to caves in the mountains to hide from the revolutionary forces.
> 
> In the backyard of a house in Bani Walid, 10 fighters dug a hole, revealing a cache of Kalashnikov assault rifles and ammunition.
> 
> "We've been finding weapons and ammunition hidden in people's yards since we liberated the city, all over," said Ayman Mahdi, as he dug.
> 
> Ahmed Saad, a field commander from Zlitan in the western mountains, who helped in Bani Walid forces take back their town, said forces were also searching for underground tunnels similar to those found under Gadhafi's former Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli.
> 
> "Prisoners we captured from Bani Walid admitted the existence of these tunnels where some of the loyalists may still be hiding," Saad said.
> 
> Bani Walid's center, which was deserted on Tuesday. Buildings were pockmarked from bullets and rocket fire. The only doctors in the main hospital were foreigners.
> 
> A revolutionary commander on the scene, Ali Abdel-Rahman, said fighters were able to gain control over Bani Walid on Sunday evening after receiving much-needed ammunition and supplies the day before. He said they faced little resistance, although three revolutionary fighters were killed.
> 
> "We didn't find a regular army but only loyalists of Gadhafi, snipers with automatic weapons," he said. "Some of the Gadhafi brigades took off their uniforms and vanished."
> 
> He said even families had fled the area. "There was a widespread perception that there would be a massacre here and pools of blood, but on the contrary, it was very bloodless, swift and with no resistance."
> 
> It has been more than two months since the former rebels gained control of the capital and much of the rest of the oil-rich North African nation. Persistent fighting has prevented Libya's new leaders from declaring final victory.
> 
> While welcoming successes in Bani Walid, Libya's new leaders have said they would declare liberation only after the fall of Sirte. The capture of the coastal city 250 miles (400 kilometers) southeast of the capital would have symbolic value, as well as giving them control of the country's ports and harbors.
> 
> In Sirte, the coastal hometown of the ousted dictator, revolutionary forces pushed in from the east on Tuesday to try to overcome last pockets of resistance.
> 
> Revolutionary fighters have been locked in battle in Sirte, suffering heavy casualties, after launching what they said would be an all-out final assault on Oct. 7.
> 
> The longtime leader has been on the run since Tripoli fell in late August and he has issued several audio recordings trying to rally supporters from his hiding place.
> 
> NATO has pledged to continue airstrikes for as long as necessary, saying pro-Gadhafi forces continue to pose a threat to civilians in Libya. The alliance said it hit a command center comprising nine vehicles near Bani Walid on Monday.



Libya: NATO Campaign 'Very Close' To Termination


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Sirte Battle Rages Building By Building 








> SIRTE, Libya  Libyan revolutionary forces fought building by building Wednesday against the final pocket of resistance in Moammar Gadhafi's hometown  the last major city in Libya to have been under the control of forces loyal to the fugitive leader.
> 
> While Libya's transitional leadership worked to consolidate control over the entire country, the country's acting prime minister warned in a newspaper interview that Gadhafi can still cause trouble from his hiding place.
> 
> Mahmoud Jibril was quoted by the pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat paper Tuesday as saying that the ousted leader is moving between Niger, Algeria and the vast southern Libyan desert and has been trying to recruit fighters from Sudan to help him establish a separate state in the south, or to march to the north and destabilize the new regime.
> 
> The report could not be confirmed, but it underscored fears that the inability to catch Gadhafi, who escaped with two of his sons after revolutionary forces swept into Tripoli in late August, would allow him and his supporters to wage an insurgency.
> 
> "Gadhafi has two options: either to destabilize any new regime in Libya or to declare a separate state in the south," Jibril was quoted as saying, adding there was evidence about this but he didn't elaborate.
> 
> Suggesting that the U.S. also was concerned about the possibility, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said during a visit to Tripoli Tuesday that she hoped Gadhafi would be captured or killed.
> 
> Although two months have passed since Gadhafi fled the capital, Libya's new leaders have refrained from declaring national "liberation" until the fall of Sirte, which Gadhafi transformed from a fishing village into a modern city after he seized power in 1969.
> 
> Revolutionary forces on Tuesday pushed from the east into the small pocket of the city under the control of Gadhafi loyalists and captured a vegetable market, though they came under heavy fire from snipers and rocket-propelled grenades on the rooftops of residential buildings and homes along major streets.
> 
> On Wednesday, Wissam bin Hmade, the commander of one of the revolutionary brigades from the eastern city of Benghazi, said they had the Gadhafi supporters corralled in a 700 square meter residential area but were still facing heavy rocket and gunfire from snipers holed up in surrounding buildings.
> 
> It took the anti-Gadhafi fighters, who also faced disorganization in their own ranks, two days to capture a single residential building.
> 
> Another commander, Khaled al-Maghrabi, said 15 fighters were killed in a friendly fire incident.
> 
> It is unclear whether loyalists who slipped out of the besieged cities of Bani Walid, which was captured this week, and Sirte might continue the fight and attempt to organize an insurgency using the vast amount of weapons Gadhafi was believed to have stored in hideouts in the remote southern desert.
> 
> Unlike Iraq's Saddam Hussein, Gadhafi had no well-organized political party that could form the basis of an insurgent leadership. However, regional and ethnic differences have already appeared among the ranks of the revolutionaries, possibly laying the foundation for civil strife.
> 
> Gadhafi has issued several audio recordings trying to rally supporters. Libyan officials have said they believe he's hiding somewhere in the vast southwestern desert near the borders with Niger and Algeria.



Libya: Sirte Battle Rages Building By Building


----------



## High_Gravity

Muammar Gaddafi Killed, Captured In Sirte: Conflicting Reports 








> Following the capture of Muammar Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, contradictory reports suggest that Colonel Gaddafi may have been killed or captured in Libya.
> 
> Al Jazeera and Libyan state television are reporting that the Libyan dictator has been killed during a gunbattle in Sirte. A senior National Transitional Council official, Abdel Majid, told Reuters by telephone that Gaddafi has died of wounds suffered during his capture in Sirte. Reuters reports that he was wounded in both legs as he "tried to flee in a convoy which NATO warplanes attacked."
> 
> The U.S. State Department has not confirmed Colonel Gaddafi's capture or death.
> 
> According to The Associated Press:
> 
> The Misrata Military Council, one of multiple command groups for revolutionary forces, says its fighters captured Gadhafi in Sirte. Another commander, Abdel-Basit Haroun, says Gadhafi was killed when an airstrike hit a convoy trying to flee.
> Despite conflicting reports regarding whether Gaddafi has been killed or captured, in Tripoli, celebrations are already underway with gunfire and honking. "We've heard quite a lot of celebratory gunfire," Caroline Hawley reports for the BBC.



Muammar Gaddafi Killed, Captured In Sirte: Conflicting Reports


----------



## High_Gravity

Sirte Captured: Gaddafi Hometown Falls To Libyan Fighters 



> SIRTE, Libya -- Libyan officials and NATO say they cannot confirm reports from revolutionary fighters that ousted Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi was captured or killed in the fall of his hometown Thursday.
> 
> The Misrata Military Council, one of multiple command groups for revolutionary forces, says its fighters captured Gadhafi in Sirte. Another commander, Abdel-Basit Haroun, says Gadhafi was killed when an airstrike hit a convoy trying to flee.
> 
> The spokesman for Libya's transitional government, Jalal al-Gallal, and its military spokesman Abdul-Rahman Busin say the reports have not been confirmed. A NATO official also said the alliance could not independently confirm.
> 
> Repeated past reports of Gadhafi family deaths or captures have later proved incorrect.
> 
> THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
> 
> SIRTE, Libya (AP) - Libyan fighters drove the last holdouts of Moammar Gadhafi out of his hometown of Sirte in a few hours of fierce gunbattles Thursday, then declared victory over the last major resistance two months after the fall of Tripoli. The ecstatic former rebels celebrated by firing endless rounds into the sky, pumping their guns, knives and even a meat cleaver in the air and singing the national anthem.
> 
> In the central quarter where the final battle took place, the fighters looking like the same ragtag force that started the uprising eight months ago jumped up and down with joy and flashed V-for-victory signs. Some burned the green Gadhafi flag, then stepped on it with their boots.
> 
> They chanted "Allah akbar," or "God is great" in Arabic, while one fighter climbed a traffic light pole to unfurl the revolution's flag, which he first kissed. Discarded military uniforms of Gadhafi's fighters littered the streets. One revolutionary fighter waved a silver trophy in the air while another held up a box of firecrackers, then set them off.
> 
> "Our forces control the last neighborhood in Sirte," Hassan Draoua, a member of Libya's interim National Transitional Council, told The Associated Press in Tripoli. "The city has been liberated."
> 
> Despite the fall of Tripoli on Aug, 21, Gadhafi loyalists mounted fierce resistance in several areas, including Sirte, preventing Libya's new leaders from declaring full victory in the eight-month civil war. Earlier this week, revolutionary fighters gained control of one stronghold, Bani Walid, and by Tuesday said they had squeezed Gadhafi's forces in Sirte into a residential area of about 700 square yards but were still coming under heavy fire from surrounding buildings.
> 
> Reporters at the scene watched as the final assault began around 8 a.m. and ended about 90 minutes later. Just before the battle, about five carloads of Gadhafi loyalists tried to flee the enclave down the coastal highway that leads out of the city. But they were met by gunfire from the revolutionaries, who killed at least 20 of them.
> 
> After the battle, revolutionaries began searching homes and buildings looking for any hiding Gadhafi fighters. At least 16 were captured, along with cases of ammunition and trucks loaded with weapons. Reporters saw revolutionaries beating captured Gadhafi men in the back of trucks and officers intervening to stop them.
> 
> Deputy Defense Minister Fawzi Abu Katif on Wednesday told the AP that authorities still believe Gadhafi's son Muatassim is among the ex-regime figures holed up in the diminishing area in Sirte. He was not seen on the ground after the final battle on Thursday.
> 
> In an illustration of how difficult and slow the fighting for Sirte was, it took the anti-Gadhafi fighters, who also faced disorganization in their own ranks, two days to capture a single residential building.
> 
> Gadhafi loyalists who have escaped could still continue the fight and attempt to organize an insurgency using the vast amount of weapons Gadhafi was believed to have stored in hideouts in the remote southern desert.



Sirte Captured: Gaddafi Hometown Falls To Libyan Fighters


----------



## High_Gravity

Muammar Gaddafi Is Dead, Says Libya PM; Tripoli Celebrates 








> Libyans exploded in excitement on Thursday afternoon at reports that Muammar Gaddafi had been captured and killed in his home town of Sirt, where rebels have fought a grueling battle for weeks to crush his remaining armed loyalists.
> 
> As television broke on news that Sirt had finally fallen to the rebel forces, gunfire begun resounding around the capital. About 20 minutes later came the news, from a rebel commander in Sirt, that Gaddafi had been captured hiding in a hole in the coastal city, Gaddafi's home town about 230 miles east along the Mediterranean. Soon after came word that he was dead. The interim government says it is drafting a pathology report. In this city of two million people, thousands of people poured into the streets, firing guns in the air. The ships in Tripoli harbor blared their horns for more than an hour, and the mosques played prayers praising Allah, over the deafening noise of car horns. Crowds of people converged on the seafront to move towards Martyrs Square in the heart of the capital, where only two months ago, Gaddafi's supporters held continual demonstrations in support of the dictatorship.
> 
> A spokesman for the National Transitional Council (NTC), the interim government of Libya, insisted that the Colonel was dead, that it would have preferred him alive and brought to trial but that one "cannot go against God's will." The likelihood that Gaddafi has indeed been run to ground will make Oct. 20 one of the most historic moments of Libya's history, the final demise of a 42-year dictator who transformed this oil-rich nation into a terrifying authoritarian state even as he modernized what had been a largely illiterate desert country into a regional economic force.
> 
> Exactly two months have passed since rebel forces stormed Tripoli and drove Gaddafi and his family from power. Yet while the rebels' NTC quickly assumed control over the capital, Gaddafi and his hugely powerful son Saif al-Islam vanished, slipping out of the city while Tripoli was still in turmoil. The International Criminal Court has indicted both men for crimes against humanity, for allegedly ordering the killing of unarmed civilians before the rebel force took up arms in mid-February.
> 
> In the meantime, a well-armed group of loyalists in Sirt have held out, waging a grueling war of attrition against the rebel forces  even though the rest of the country had fallen to Gaddafi's foes. With the war dragging on, NTC officials were increasingly hampered in administering their new country. Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril told journalists on Wednesday evening that Libya could "move from a national struggle to chaos." He said he was particularly concerned about the convoys of heavy weaponry which slipped into the neighboring country of Niger in August, after Tripoli fell.



Read more: Muammar Gaddafi Is Dead, Says Libya PM; Tripoli Celebrates - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

In Tripoli, Libya's Interim Leader Says He Is Quitting 








> Two months after rebel fighters stormed into Tripoli and drove Muammar Gaddafi from power, the man effectively running the country in his role as temporary prime minister warned on Wednesday night that Libya could turn to chaos unless the war ended soon. Mahmoud Jibril, a U.S.-educated economist who helped persuade NATO members to launch their Libya campaign last March, also announced in an interview with TIME that he was quitting  potentially leaving Libya in a perilous state of limbo.
> 
> Jibril, who heads the executive board of the rebels' National Transitional Council, did not say exactly when he would resign, but hinted that it could be as soon as Thursday, when a televised meeting of his group would detail what it had accomplished since Gaddafi's ouster, he said. In a grim assessment of Libya's current state, Jibril suggested that as the war dragged on, he had found governing the country was increasingly difficult. "We have moved into a political struggle with no boundaries," Jibril said, looking glum, rather than a man rejoicing liberation. "The political struggle requires finances, organization, arms and ideologies," he said. "I am afraid I don't have any of this."
> 
> His warning underscores just how much Libya is now in limbo  and just how dangerous that might be. The exhilarating sense of victory, which gripped the world's attention when rebel columns rolled into Tripoli on Aug. 20, has largely dissipated. In its place is a sense of being in suspended animation, as men in battle fatigues move through Tripoli  a city of two million people  in pickup trucks topped with machine guns. The breezy Mediterranean harbor is all-but dormant, and those few ships which are in the dock are frozen in place. Cranes sit suspended over half-built construction sites, including one for a sprawling InterContinental hotel off the former Green Square (now called Martyrs Square) which has been frozen since the revolution began in February. And Tripoli's international airport remains closed. "Shoulder-fired missiles have gone AWOL, and all it takes is one of them to attack," says Sami Zaptia, a business consultant who recently helped form a Tripoli organization called the National Support Group, to pressure rebel leaders into forming democratic institutions. "There is very little business happening."
> 
> The country's paralysis, at least around Tripoli, is in part because Gaddafi and his powerful son, Saif al-Islam, are still on the run, with no idea among rebel leaders where they are. And although it has been only two months since Gaddafi's 42-year rule imploded, many assumed that by now Libya's war would long be over and a transitional government would be in place, especially since the eight-month revolution seemed to unfold at surprising speed. Instead, rebel fighters have been ground down for weeks in a protracted battle in Sirt, Gaddafi's home town 230 miles east along the coast, as they try to crush the dictatorship's last armed loyalists.
> 
> Throughout Wednesday, Tripoli's old whitewashed mosques blared out prayers from the minarets, calling on Allah to protect the fighters on the front line. Yet in the city itself, the unity which appeared to hold through months of the revolution, has seriously frayed, as rival brigades lay claim to different territories around the capital, and as rebel fighters sharpen their allegiances to local commanders.
> 
> Jibril's words on Wednesday evening made it clear that Libya needed more than the prayers blasting out of the mosques, for the country to unite around a new democracy. He warned that the longer the fighting lasted, so the possibility increased for Libya turning "from a national struggle to chaos," and becoming a battleground for "all the foreign powers which have their own agendas towards Libya." Rebel leaders have said that once Sirt falls, they will declare the war over and announce a temporary government. The delay involves concrete complications, including the fact that governments cannot easily hand over billions of dollars of Gaddafi's money, which are frozen in foreign bank accounts, so long as there is no Libyan government to administer the money.



Read more: In Tripoli, Libya's Interim Leader Says He Is Quitting - TIME


----------



## High_Gravity

Is This Gaddafi? Graphic Photos, Video Reportedly Show Captured Libyan Leader - TIME NewsFeed

Warning pics are graphic, its definently him too.


----------



## High_Gravity

Obama On Muammar Gaddafi Death: President Obama Addresses Death Of Libyan Leader









> President Barack Obama addressed the death of Muammar Gaddafi at a press conference on Thursday.
> 
> The AP reports:
> 
> U.S. officials already were focused on helping the new Libyan leaders build a stable government before word came Thursday that former dictator Moammar Gaddafi was dead, seven months after the United States and NATO began their bombing campaign in Libya.
> The Transitional National Council informed the United States of Gaddafi's death shortly before Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril's announcement to his nation that the moment so many had waited for had come, a U.S. official said. The White House and State Department were expected to release official responses later Thursday.
> 
> 
> Speaking Thursday from the White House Rose Garden, the president said the Libyan people now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny. He said they also have a great responsibility to build a tolerant and democratic Libya.
> 
> "The rule of an iron fist inevitably comes to an end," he said.



Obama On Muammar Gaddafi Death: President Obama Addresses Death Of Libyan Leader (LIVE VIDEO)


----------



## High_Gravity

After Muammar Gaddafi, a Perilous Race for Power in Libya








> The ignominious end of Col. Muammar Gaddafi may mark a milestone of liberation beyond the wildest dreams and prayers of his long-suffering people just a short year ago, but it also represents a huge headache for Libya's fragile transitional rulers: Gone is the common enemy that bound together a diverse and often fractious coalition of contending tribal, regional and political power centers; the shot that killed Gaddafi was also the starting gun on a potentially perilous race for power in Libya.
> 
> Libya's Transitional National Council was recognized as the country's legitimate government by Western and Arab powers long before its legitimacy was an established fact among Libyans themselves, even among many of those bearing the brunt of the fighting against the regime. The Council has struggled, since the fall of Tripoli, to manage an increasingly rowdy post-Gaddafi political environment, with its leadership increasingly challenged by many of the fighting forces  organized on the basis of regional, tribal or Islamist political affinities  who see the group as too dominated by former Gaddafi officials, and deriving its authority from its relations with the West rather than support among Libyans. Indeed, in response to challenges to its legitimacy from within rebel ranks, the Council three weeks ago reiterated a previous pledge to take no part in the election it promised would be held eight months after victory was declared. With Gaddafi dead, the election clock is now ticking, and those currently in power have promised to exist stage left by next summer. Even before that, the transitional government that the NTC has vowed to create within 30 days of declaring victory will likely see an escalation of fierce political infighting among rival rebel factions.Staging a democratic poll in just eight in a country with no contemporary history of party politics or the rule of law  and which is riven by tribal, regional and political schisms  is certainly a tall order. But challenges to the NTC's legitimacy might make delaying the process difficult to countenance without a consensus among some of the rival factions now competing for power.
> 
> Only a day before Gaddafi's death, interim prime minister Mahmoud Jibril told TIME he planned to resign this week, citing the emerging power struggle as his reason. "We have moved into a political struggle with no boundaries," explained Jibril, a Western-trained technocrat without an obvious mass base. "The political struggle requires finances, organization, arms and ideologies. I am afraid I don't have any of this."
> 
> Jibril had become a lightning rod for mounting antagonism from the Islamist fighters of the Tripoli Military Council, and also of the militias of the city of Misrata who played a key military role in toppling Gaddafi and killing him. Those groups believe they were being shut out of decision-making by an alliance of Western-backed technocrats and former regime officials, and were vowing to fight back. Ali al-Sallabi, a prominent Islamist cleric and ally of Tripoli Military Council leader Abdel Hakim Belhadj, has openly condemned Jibril and demanded his resignation.
> 
> Jibril's comment about lacking an ideology is telling: As as has been the case in Egypt and Tunisia, the Islamists have a natural advantage over many of the other groups who took up the fight against Gaddafi in that their political vision  in Libya's case of a moderate Islamic democracy on friendly terms with the West  has no established ideological competitor with mass appeal. Many of the other groups who fought in the frontline were often organized on the basis of tribal or regional affinities, which offer little basis for national electoral appeal. But as TIME's Abby Hauslohner as reported their role in taking down Gaddafi has boosted the claims of the rebels of Misrata, who feel sidelined by the NTC. For similar reasons, the claims for greater representation by the long marginalized Amazigh Berbers of the mountains West of Tripoli can't be ignored.



After Muammar Gaddafi, a Perilous Race for Power in Libya - Yahoo! News


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Dead: Leader's 42 Years In Power 



> TRIPOLI, Libya  During nearly 42 years in power, Moammar Gadhafi ruled with an eccentric brutality. He was so mercurial he turned Libya into an isolated pariah, then an oil power courted by the West, then back again. At home, his whims became law and his visions became a warped dictatorship, until he was finally toppled by his own people.
> 
> The modern Middle East's longest-reigning figure, Libya's 69-year-old "Brother Leader" became the first ruler killed in the Arab Spring uprisings that swept the region this year.
> 
> After rebels overwhelmed the capital Tripoli and drove him into hiding in late August, Gadhafi vowed in messages to fight on until "martyrdom or victory" and to "burn Libya under the feet" of his enemies. And indeed, he met his end Thursday alongside his last heavily armed supporters, cornered by revolutionary fighters in Sirte, the fishing village where he was born and which he transformed during his rule into a virtual second capital city.
> 
> In the last images of him alive, a wounded Gadhafi staggered and shouted at fighters dragging him away after pulling him out of a drainage tunnel where he took refuge trying to flee Sirte with loyalists. His goateed face was bloodied, his head balding after the loss of the hairpiece that filled out his trademark bush of curly hair.
> 
> "What do you want? Don't kill me, my sons," Gadhafi said to the fighters as they grabbed him, one commander said.
> 
> Gadhafi leaves behind an oil-rich nation of 6 million traumatized by a rule that drained it of institutions after four decades when all issues came down to one man and his family. Notorious for his extravagant outfits  ranging from white suits and sunglasses to military uniforms with frilled epaulets to brilliantly colored robes decorated with the map of Africa  he styled himself as a combination Bedouin chief and philosopher king, with titles from "leader of the revolution" to "king of the kings of Africa."
> 
> He ruled by mad lurches. He was a sponsor of terrorism whose regime was blamed for blowing up two passenger jets and who then helped the U.S. in the war on terror. He was an Arab nationalist who mocked Arab rulers. He seemed to revel in infuriating leaders, whether in the West or the Middle East.
> 
> U.S. President Ronald Reagan branded him a "mad dog" after a 1986 bombing that killed U.S. servicemen in Berlin was blamed on Libya. Former Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, who fought a border war with Libya in the 1970s, wrote in his diary that Gadhafi was "mentally sick" and "needs treatment."
> 
> Behind the flamboyance and showmanship, associates say Gadhafi was meticulous in managing the levers of power. He intervened in decisions large and small and constantly met personally with tribal leaders and military officers whose support he maintained through lucrative posts.
> 
> The sole constant was his grip on the country. Numerous coup and assassination attempts against him over the years mostly ended with public executions of the plotters, hanged in city squares.
> 
> The ultimate secret of his longevity lay in the vast oil reserves under his North African desert nation and in his capacity for drastic changes of course when necessary.
> 
> The most spectacular U-turn came in late 2003. After years of denial, Libya acknowledged responsibility  though in a Gadhafi-esque twist of logic, not guilt  for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, that killed 270 people. He agreed to pay up to $10 million to relatives of each victim.
> 
> He also announced that Libya would dismantle its nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs under international supervision.
> 
> The rewards came fast. Within months, the U.S. lifted economic sanctions and resumed diplomatic ties. The European Union hosted Gadhafi in Brussels. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in 2008 became the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit the country in more than 50 years. Rice had a special place in the heart for Gadhafi, who in an interview once called her "my darling black African woman ... I love her very much ... Leezza, Leezza, Leezza." Tony Blair, as British prime minister, also visited him in Tripoli.
> 
> International oil companies rushed to invest in Libya's fields. Documents uncovered after Gadhafi's fall revealed close cooperation between his intelligence services and the CIA in pursuing terror suspects after the 9/11 attacks, even before the U.S. lifted its designation of Libya as a sponsor of terror in 2006.
> 
> Still, Gadhafi's renegade ways did not change. After Swiss police had the temerity to briefly arrest his son Hannibal for allegedly beating up two servants in a Geneva luxury hotel in 2008, Gadhafi's regime arrested two Swiss nationals and raked Switzerland over the coals, extracting an apology and compensation before finally releasing the men nearly two years later. European countries, eagerly building economic ties with Libya, did little to back up Switzerland in the dispute.
> 
> But Gadhafi became an instant pariah once more when he began a brutal crackdown on the February uprising in his country that grew out of the "Arab Spring" of popular revolts across the region. The U.N. authorized a no-fly zone for Libya in March, and NATO launched a campaign of airstrikes against his military forces.
> 
> "I am a fighter, a revolutionary from tents. ... I will die as a martyr at the end," he proclaimed in one of his last televised speeches during the uprising, pounding the lectern near a sculpture of a golden fist crushing a U.S. warplane.



Gaddafi Dead: Leader's 42 Years In Power


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Dead: Burial Delayed 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  The burial of slain leader Moammar Gadhafi has been delayed until the circumstances of his death can be further examined and a decision is made about where to bury the body, Libyan officials said Friday, as the U.N. human rights office called for an investigation into his death.
> 
> The transitional leadership had said it would bury the dictator Friday in accordance with Islamic tradition. Bloody images of Gadhafi's last moments in the hands of angry captors have raised questions over his treatment minutes before his death. One son, Muatassim, was also killed but the fate of Gadhafi's one-time heir apparent Seif al-Islam was unclear.
> 
> Justice Minister Mohammed al-Alagi said Seif al-Islam was wounded and being held in a hospital in the city of Zlitan. But Information Minister Mahmoud Shammam on Friday that the son's whereabouts were uncertain.
> 
> Shammam said Gadhafi's body was still in Misrata, where it was taken after he was found in his hometown of Sirte, and revolutionary forces were discussing where it should be interred.
> 
> Thursday's death of Gadhafi, two months after he was driven from power and into hiding, decisively buries the nearly 42-year regime that had turned the oil-rich country into an international pariah and his own personal fiefdom.
> 
> It also thrusts Libya into a new age in which its transitional leaders must overcome deep divisions and rebuild nearly all its institutions from scratch to achieve dreams of democracy.
> 
> Many Libyans awoke after a night of jubilant celebration and celebratory gunfire with hope for the future but also concern that their new rulers might repeat the mistakes of the past.
> 
> Khaled Almslaty, a 42-year-old clothing vendor in Tripoli, said he wished Gadhafi had been captured alive.
> 
> "But I believe he got what he deserved because if we prosecuted him for the smallest of his crimes, he would be punished by death," he said. "Now we hope the NTC will accelerate the formation of a new government and ... won't waste time on irrelevant conflicts and competing for authority and positions."
> 
> Bloody images of Gadhafi's last moments also cast a shadow over the celebrations, raising questions over how exactly he died. Video on Arab television stations showed a crowd of fighters shoving and pulling the goateed, balding Gadhafi, with blood splattered on his face and soaking his shirt.
> 
> Gadhafi struggled against them, stumbling and shouting as the fighters pushed him onto the hood of a pickup truck. One fighter held him down, pressing on his thigh with a pair of shoes in a show of contempt.
> 
> Fighters propped him on the hood as they drove for several moments, apparently to parade him around in victory.
> 
> "We want him alive. We want him alive," one man shouted before Gadhafi was dragged off the hood, some fighters pulling his hair, toward an ambulance.
> 
> Later footage showed fighters rolling Gadhafi's lifeless body over on the pavement, stripped to the waist and a pool of blood under his head. His body was then paraded on a car through Misrata, a nearby city that suffered a brutal siege by regime forces during the eight-month civil war that eventually ousted Gadhafi. Crowds in the streets cheered, "The blood of martyrs will not go in vain."
> 
> Libyan leaders said it appeared that Gadhafi had been caught in the crossfire and it was unclear who fired the bullet that killed him.
> 
> Shammam said a coroner's report showed that Gadhafi was killed by a bullet to the head and died in the ambulance on the way to a field hospital. Gadhafi was already injured from battle when he was found in the drainage pipe, Shammam said.
> 
> "It seems like the bullet was a stray and it could have come from the revolutionaries or the loyalists," Shammam said, echoing an account given by Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril the night before. "The problem is everyone around the event is giving his own story."
> 
> Shammam said that the NTC was expecting a report from Financial Minister Ali Tarhouni who was sent as an envoy to Misrata on Thursday.
> 
> The governing National Transitional Council said interim leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil will formally declare liberation on Saturday in the eastern city of Benghazi, where the revolution against Gadhafi's rule began in mid-February. The NTC has always said it will form a new interim government within a month of liberation and will hold elections within eight months.



Gaddafi Dead: Burial Delayed


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's Lessons








> Moammar Gaddafi's death makes for an interesting punctuation mark in the ever-evolving U.S. approach to war. The key choice: should it be an exclamation point ("We got him! And not a single American died!) or a question mark ("Did we just get lucky? Is this a template for how the U.S. should wage future wars?").
> 
> We shouldn't over-learn whatever lessons there are to be gleaned by Gaddafi's demise and the joyful crowds gathering in Tripoli and other Libyan cities. But neither should we be shy about exploring what they might be.
> 
> When Operation Odyssey Dawn began seven months ago Wednesday -- with the U.S. taking the lead, its B-1 and B-2 bombers attacking Libyan targets from bases inside the U.S. -- it marked a humanitarian response to Gaddafi's threat to kill rebels in the city of Benghazi like "rats". After two weeks, the U.S. handed off the mission -- renamed Operation Unified Protector -- to NATO, which, in fits and starts, ground down Gaddafi's forces.
> 
> Finally -- after the allies insisted they were not targeting the Libyan strongman -- NATO air power apparently played a key role in his capture, wounding and subsequent death Thursday. Alliance warplanes reportedly attacked a convoy in which he was fleeing his hometown of Sirte.
> 
> While the campaigns launched by President George W. Bush continue -- vigorously in Afghanistan, winding down in Iraq -- President Obama seems to have split the difference in Libya.
> 
> He moved out only with United Nations approval, and an invitation from the Arab League. He let Europe take the lead, and vowed not to put a single U.S. combat boot on Libyan soil. "It is undeniable that the NATO campaign prevented a massacre and contributed mightily to Gaddafi's undoing," said Sen. John Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat who heads the foreign relations committee, "without deploying boots on the ground or suffering a single American fatality."
> 
> Obama's military efforts in Pakistan, Yemen and Uganda also show a lighter touch than the get-tough approach brandished by Bush in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.
> 
> Part of it, of course, is due to the passage of time; there's little doubt Obama would have taken down the Taliban inside Afghanistan if he had been in office on September 11, 2001. But that conflict, as well as the troubled Iraq war, have reminded Americans and their leaders once again about the usefulness of military force. It's good for whacking someone -- punishment, vengeance -- but far less helpful when it comes to remaking a foreign land.
> 
> That realization -- if it takes root -- has major implications for the future size and shape of the U.S. military. The U.S. armed forces and the government that oversees it are at a crossroads. With budget cuts inevitable, they can choose either to fight to keep everything the U.S. military now has -- in terms of materiel, manpower and missions -- or they can recalibrate their goals.
> 
> The U.S. can continue to field a large, land-based Army (never mind the Marines), and keep it in reserve like a holstered gun. Potential foes -- we mean you, Pyongyang -- will know we have the wherewithal to deal with them on the ground.




Read more: What are the lesssons for the U.S. military following Gaddafi's death in Libya? - Battleland - TIME.com


----------



## High_Gravity

1960s Libya: A Glimpse of Life Before Gaddafi








> My father is used to waiting.
> 
> In one form or another, he has spent 41 years doing just that. My earliest memories of my dad are of him sitting on the sofa glued to the TV, watching the news while my brother and I grew around him. In a room housed inside one of the many hotels that became our familys temporary nest, life resembled that of a normal familys for a few days. On occasion, in our home in London, he would appear and drift away like a spirit  something we learned to live with. In some ways, I think he was waiting for a glimmer on the horizon, a memory that had fallen deep inside him and hadnt been seen since the fall of 1969. Its as if his watch had stopped that September, and like him, it waited for time worth telling to resume.
> 
> In the 1960s, my father was the owner of a hotel and casino named the Uaddan, which overlooked the coast in Tripoli. In my early years, I remember hearing stories of life inside the hotel before Muammar Gaddafi spearheaded the September revolution of 1969. As I got older, I began to see a pattern in the stories my father told. Seldom did he reminisce about moments that postdated his ownership of the Uaddan or share experiences that included my family. The birth of my brother or our family trips to various islands never made the cut. Nor did he talk much about the years he spent with my mother or how they met. My brother and I always joked that it were as if my father didnt have the ability to record time that came after the hotel  I think theres some truth in that.
> 
> What I have learned over the years is that to my father, the Uaddan was no longer a hotel but rather a demarcation for a period when his light glowed the strongest. The allure to return to those times never lost its potency. He lamented the loss of that light and would spend the next four decades lost in reveries that brought him closer to those days.
> 
> My relationship with Libya has always been mixed. To me, the country, and especially Tripoli, played as active a role in our family dynamic as any of us did. It was also a source of friction after my brother and I grew up in the U.K. We had little to no attachment to Libya, though it was more our country than anywhere else. My father resented us for not having spent more time there, although he understood that we had to leave for our safety in the early 80s. A greater distance developed between father and son because I had trouble relating to the life in Libya he held so close.
> 
> I think most Libyans who were around during those days have their own Uaddan  a safe house built for the purpose of storing away those memories and desires beneath the surface, locked away and preserved until a time would come when they could be ignited into flight.
> 
> I always knew that Libya was not a camera culture. On my many trips back to Tripoli, I never saw people taking photos. My father never bothered to take photos after 1969 in the same way he used to. Those earlier days were recorded diligently: parties and beach trips and everyday life. The colors that once jumped out of the pictures from those days are now washed away and faded. I have spent a lot of time looking at these photos over the years. Now more than ever, they speak to me and give me a clear picture of what was extinguished for so many in 1969. Those chapters hold such an important role in the lives of not only the Libyans but also many of the internationals who were living in Tripoli at the time. My mother worked in Libya in 1969 as a schoolteacher and still talks fondly about those days, in the same way that people speak of the 1960s in the U.S.
> 
> To my father, the Uaddan was orphaned rather than simply taken by Gaddafis government. He knew that nobody would love or care for the place as much as he had all those years. The government had no use for the building and allowed it to succumb to the effects of long-term neglect. I have visited the hotel several times over the past few years, less out of curiosity than a need to see for myself the place that had taken on a life of mythological proportions in my upbringing. Still a hotel  although more a lifeless shell of what it once was  I never saw anyone inside during my visits. My father refused to go because I think it would have broken his heart to see its condition. To him, the hotel was sacred and forever preserved in his mind at its prime. My fathers memories of the Uaddan burst the actual boundaries of the building. He made it into something it may never quite have been  at least not as he boasted. But thats what happens to memories: they become what you need them to be. Who he was during the Uaddan days, and what was taken from him with the coming of Gaddafi, would pull apart anyone. And into that chasm poured memories that have solidified to make up his past.



Read more: Pictures of 1960s Libya: Cosmopolitan Life Before Gaddafi - LightBox


----------



## High_Gravity

NATO says it didn't know Kadafi was in targeted Libyan convoy








> REPORTING FROM LONDON -- NATO said Friday it was not aware that Moammar Kadafi was in a convoy targeted by NATO warplanes as it headed out of the former Libyan leader's hometown of Surt.
> 
> The alliance said in a statement that it dropped bombs on the convoy of Kadafi loyalists because the vehicles were "carrying a substantial amount of weapons and ammunition" which could be used against civilians.
> 
> "At the time of the strike, NATO did not know that Kadafi was in the convoy. NATO's intervention was conducted solely to reduce the threat toward the civilian population," the statement said.
> 
> 
> NATO first struck about 8:30 a.m. on Thursday after taking note of a group of about 75 vehicles maneuvering around Surt, the statement said. The convoy was leaving the coastal city "at high speed." NATO aircraft attacked 11 of the vehicles, destroying one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> After that, about 20 vehicles broke away from the main convoy and kept moving south, "continuing to pose a significant threat," NATO said. A second airstrike damaged or destroyed 10 of the vehicles.



NATO says it didn't know Kadafi was in targeted Libyan convoy - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Africa muted on death of Kadafi, its self-proclaimed 'king of kings'








> REPORTING FROM JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA -- He was embraced by former South African President Nelson Mandela as his brother leader" in 1997, had himself proclaimed the "king of kings" in Africa in 2008 and was voted in as head of the African Union in 2009.
> 
> Libya's Moammar Kadafi maintained his influence across the continent through a strong patronage network, scattering his petrodollars to African friends.
> 
> African leaders were happy to accept Kadafis largess when he funded liberation movements and governments, and offered a polite display of loyalty in return -- even as the Libyan leader faced a liberation struggle from many of his own people, whom he called "rats."
> 
> (They were less enthusiastic when he had himself proclaimed Africas king of kings, assembling 200 tribal chiefs and traditional leaders in Benghazi who duly voted him No. 1. Nor did African Union leaders embrace his grand vision of a United States of Africa, with one gigantic army and himself as leader and commander in chief. When he tried to cling on as AU leader in January 2010, he was forced to face a vote and a new leader was elected.)
> 
> South Africas African National Congress remained grateful to Kadafi for his support of the movement during its liberation struggle, and in 2009 South Africa sold weapons to Libya for about $10 million, despite a law banning sales to governments that systematically abuse human rights.
> 
> When Kadafi violently suppressed anti-regime protests in February, sparking international outrage, African leaders were conspicuously silent.
> 
> South African President Jacob Zuma twice traveled to Tripoli this year to try to broker a negotiated compromise between rebel forces and Kadafi. The African Union proposal was rejected by the insurgents, who demanded Kadafis unconditional departure.
> 
> After initially backing the U.N. Security Council resolution allowing NATO to use force to protect Libyas civilians, Zuma later accused the alliance of overstepping its mandate. The South African government said NATO was bombing to force regime change.
> 
> In August, Zuma declared the African Union would not recognize the Transitional National Council that took over after Kadafi fled Libya's capital, at least not until there was peace in the North African country. But as fighting dragged on, the AU and South Africa did finally recognize the council a month ago.
> 
> Though Kadafi apparently imagined himself much loved in Africa, it turned out he was not much mourned. The headline about his death in Nigeria's Guardian newspaper ran: "Quit notice ... to bad leaders!"



Africa muted on death of Kadafi, its self-proclaimed 'king of kings' - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya rejoices at Moammar Kadafi's death








> Reporting from Tripoli, Libya, and Beirut The spectacle of Moammar Kadafi's capture at the mouth of a drain pipe and death in the custody of those he long oppressed thrilled Libyans but left a sense of unease about the nation's ability to emerge from his violent legacy.
> 
> Kadafi's death Thursday in his hometown, the coastal city of Surt, spared Libyans the prospect that the only leader most had ever known would continue exhorting die-hard followers to fight. Few believed that, two months after he had been chased from his capital, Kadafi was in a position to make a comeback. But he remained a charismatic figure capable of instigating guerrilla war.
> 
> Exultant Libyans celebrated by firing rifles into the air, a practice that highlights one of the nation's great challenges as it tries to build the democracy its new leaders and foreign allies say they desire  how to collect thousands of weapons and rein in the militias that now impose order.
> 
> Besides being awash in guns, post-Kadafi Libya has a provisional government that is struggling to accomplish its most basic functions and must surmount regional and tribal divisions. Its advantages are vast oil wealth and a relatively small population.
> 
> "We have been waiting for this moment for a long time," Mahmoud Jibril, the transitional government's de facto prime minister, told reporters in the capital, Tripoli. "Moammar Kadafi has been killed."
> 
> In Washington, President Obama added his voice to those of Western European leaders whose military power was crucial to ending Kadafi's nearly 42 years in power. "This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya, who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya," Obama said.
> 
> But the question remains: Can the nation remain united now that its larger-than-life, common adversary is gone?
> 
> Most agree that Libya's provisional ruling body, the Transitional National Council, has earned a degree of legitimacy, despite its struggles to impose its authority and the fact that its members were not elected.
> 
> "We all now face the challenge of building a new Libya," Tripoli's erstwhile military commander, Abdel-Hakim Belhaj, told reporters.
> 
> The prominence of Belhaj, a former Islamist fighter in Afghanistan who says he was tortured by the CIA and handed over to the Kadafi regime for imprisonment, has unnerved some. Rival militia brigades have resisted Belhaj's calls to vacate the capital.
> 
> Belhaj and his Islamist allies say they, too, seek a democratic Libya, albeit one where Islam has a political voice. Kadafi long viewed Islamists as the chief threat to his power and jailed hundreds, including Belhaj.
> 
> Islamists in Libya, as in neighboring Tunisia and Egypt, appear to be among the most organized political forces in the aftermath of the revolutions that swept the region this year.
> 
> Kadafi was the third long-ruling leader to fall since the outbreak of the so-called Arab Spring protests. But he became the first to lose his life. Zine el Abidine ben Ali, the ousted president of Tunisia, where elections will be held this weekend, fled into exile. In Egypt, former President Hosni Mubarak is facing criminal charges.
> 
> That lesson is likely to resonate in Syria and Yemen, where rulers are clinging to power despite months of pressure from the streets.
> 
> Months ago, a censorious Kadafi chastised the Tunisians and Egyptians for having toppled their strongman leaders  and, later, when the protests came to Libya, he vowed to die "a martyr" in his homeland.
> 
> His death lacked the glory Kadafi appears to have imagined.
> 
> It came more than eight months after demonstrations triggered a revolt that ultimately cost more than 30,000 lives and destroyed several cities.
> 
> For months, the conflict languished in a stalemate, with rebels holding the eastern city of Benghazi and making slow gains in the west. But Kadafi's remaining power unraveled suddenly in August, when he and his closest supporters were chased from Tripoli.



Libya rejoices at Moammar Kadafi's death - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Dead: Body Kept In Freezer In Misrata Market



> Former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's body is being held in a commercial freezer in a Misrata market, Reuters and the Associated Press report.
> 
> Video footage shows the bloodied body of the ousted Libyan leader lying on a mattress in a shopping center in Misrata, the coastal city where Gaddafi's body was brought after he was captured and killed in Sirte on Thursday. His body shows bruises and bullet wounds to the chest and the temple.
> 
> Libya's transitional government said on Thursday that Gaddafi would be buried within 24 hours, in accordance with Muslim rites. Yet on Friday, the NTC announced that Gaddafi's burial had been delayed because of investigations and a pending decision on where to bury the body.
> 
> Earlier today, UNHCR called for an investigation into the circumstances of Gaddafi's death. "We believe there is a need for an investigation," said Rupert Colville, a spokesman for the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights. "More details are needed to ascertain whether he was killed in some form of fighting or was executed after his capture."
> 
> "The two cell phone videos that have emerged, one of him alive, and one of him dead, taken together are very disturbing," Colville told reporters.
> 
> Also on Friday, there were rumors of a dispute between the National Transitional Council and a group of Misrata fighters over the site of Gaddafi's grave, Reuters reports. "They are not agreeing on the place of burial," an NTC official who declined to be named told the news organization. "Under Islam he should have been buried quickly but they have to reach an agreement whether he is to be buried in Misrata, Sirte, or somewhere else," he said.
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi was killed on Thursday after the capture of his hometown Sirte by Libyan fighters. The precise circumstances of the former leader's death remain unclear. Libyan officials said it appeared that Gaddafi was caught in the crossfire, and it was unclear who fired the bullet that killed him.



Gaddafi Dead: Body Kept In Freezer In Misrata Market (VIDEO)


----------



## Uncensored2008

High_Gravity said:


> Gaddafi Dead: Body Kept In Freezer In Misrata Market (VIDEO)



They planning a barbeque?


----------



## High_Gravity

Uncensored2008 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaddafi Dead: Body Kept In Freezer In Misrata Market (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They planning a barbeque?
Click to expand...


Man I don't know, thats very macabre.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya After Gaddafi: Leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil Declares Liberation 



> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libya's interim rulers declared the country liberated on Sunday after an 8-month civil war, launching the oil-rich nation on what is meant to be a two-year transition to democracy. But they laid out plans with an Islamist tone that could rattle their Western backers.
> 
> The joyful ceremony formally marking the end of Moammar Gadhafi's 42-year tyranny was also clouded by mounting pressure from the leaders of the NATO campaign that helped secure victory to investigate whether Gadhafi, dragged wounded but alive out of a drainage ditch last week, was then executed by his captors.
> 
> The circumstances of Gadhafi's death remain unclear. In separate accounts late Sunday, two Libyan fighters said Gadhafi was hurt after being captured, but was able to stand. One said that when he and others placed Gadhafi in an ambulance, the former Libyan leader had not yet suffered what Libya's chief pathologist said was a fatal gunshot to the head.
> 
> Critics said the gruesome spectacle of his blood-streaked body laid out as a trophy for a third day of public viewing in a commercial freezer tests the new leadership's commitment to the rule of law.
> 
> Britain's defense secretary, Philip Hammond, said the Libyan revolutionaries' image had been "a little bit stained" by Gadhafi's violent death. Both he and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said a full investigation is necessary.
> 
> Gadhafi's capture and the fall of his hometown of Sirte, the last loyalist stronghold, set the stage for the long-awaited declaration of liberation, delivered by the head of the National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil.
> 
> He did not mention the circumstances surrounding Gadhafi's death  mobile phone videos showed the wounded leader being taunted and beaten by a mob after his capture. But he urged his people to avoid hatred.
> 
> "You should only embrace honesty, patience, and mercy," Abdul-Jalil told a flag-waving crowd of several thousand at the declaration ceremony in the eastern city of Benghazi, the birthplace of the uprising against Gadhafi.
> 
> Abdul-Jalil laid out a vision for a new Libya with an Islamist tint, saying Islamic Sharia law would be the "basic source" of legislation, and that existing laws that contradict the teachings of Islam would be nullified.
> 
> He outlined several changes to align with Islamic law, including putting caps on interest for bank loans and lifting restrictions on the number of wives Libyan men can take. The Muslim holy book, the Quran, allows men up to four wives.
> 
> Abdul-Jalil thanked those who fought and fell in the war, saying they "are somewhere better than here, with God." Displaying his own piety, he then stepped aside from the podium and knelt to offer a prayer of thanks.
> 
> Using Sharia as the main source of legislation is stipulated in the constitution of neighboring Egypt. Still, Egyptian laws remain largely secular as Sharia does not cover all aspects of modern life.
> 
> Libya's revolt erupted in February as part of anti-government protests spreading across the Middle East. Islamist groups stand to gain ground in neighboring Tunisia and Egypt, which shook off their dictators several months ago. Tunisia has taken the biggest steps so far on the path to democracy, voting Sunday for a new assembly, while Egypt's parliamentary election is set for next month.
> 
> Libya's struggle has been the bloodiest so far in the region. Mass protests turned into a civil war that killed thousands and paralyzed the country. Gadhafi loyalists held out for two more months after the fall of the capital of Tripoli in late August. Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte fell last week, but Gadhafi's son and one-time heir apparent, Seif al-Islam, apparently escaped with some of his supporters.



Libya After Gaddafi: Leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil Declares Liberation


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Death Questioned 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libya's interim leader said Monday he has ordered an investigation into Moammar Gadhafi's death in response to strong international pressure to determine how the ousted leader was killed by a bullet to the head shortly after he was captured alive.
> 
> Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told a news conference in the eastern city of Benghazi that the National Transitional Council has formed a committee to investigate Thursday's killing amid conflicting reports of how the dictator who ruled Libya for 42 years died. Government officials have said initial findings suggest Gadhafi was killed in the crossfire as his supporters clashed with revolutionary forces seizing control of his hometown of Sirte.
> 
> But Abdul-Jalil raised a new possibility on Monday, suggesting that Gadhafi could have been killed by his own supporters to prevent him from implicating them in past misdeeds under his regime.
> 
> "Let us question who has the interest in the fact that Gadhafi will not be tried. Libyans want to try him for what he did to them, with executions, imprisonment and corruption," he said. "Free Libyans wanted to keep Gadhafi in prison and humiliate him as long as possible. Those who wanted him killed were those who were loyal to him or had played a role under him, his death was in their benefit."
> 
> The U.S., Britain and international rights groups have called for an investigation into whether Libya's former rebels killed a wounded Gadhafi after pulling him out of a drainage pipe in his hometown of Sirte, the last city to fall to revolutionary forces after an 8-month civil war.
> 
> Critics also have said the gruesome spectacle of his blood-streaked body laid out as a trophy for a fourth day of public viewing in a commercial freezer raises questions about the new leadership's commitment to the rule of law.
> 
> Abdul-Jalil said the transitional government has established a committee to determine what ultimately to do with Gadhafi's body and the decisions will be governed by a fatwa, or religious edict, by the head of the Islamic Fatwa society.
> 
> Libya's revolt erupted in February as part of anti-government protests spreading across the Middle East. But Libya's struggle has been the bloodiest so far in the region. Mass protests turned into a civil war that killed thousands and paralyzed the country. Gadhafi loyalists held out for two more months after the fall of the capital of Tripoli in late August.
> 
> Abdul-Jalil declared the country liberated on Sunday, launching the oil-rich nation on what is meant to be a two-year transition to democracy. But he also laid out plans with an Islamist tone that could rattle their Western backers. He said Islamic Sharia law would be the "basic source" of legislation, and that existing laws that contradict the teachings of Islam would be nullified.
> 
> Using Sharia as the main source of legislation is stipulated in the constitution of neighboring Egypt. Still, Egyptian laws remain largely secular as Egypt's interpretation of Sharia does not cover all aspects of modern life, while Saudi Arabia and Iran apply much more strict interpretations.
> 
> Abdul-Jalil also outlined several changes to align with Islamic law such as banning banks from paying interest and lifting restrictions on the number of wives Libyan men can take. The Muslim holy book, the Quran, allows men up to four wives.
> 
> Mindful of the concern, Abdul-Jalil said Monday he was referring to a temporary constitution and said he wanted to "assure the international community that we as Libyans are moderate Muslims."
> 
> He also said there will be a referendum on a new constitution after it is drawn up.
> 
> Islamist groups stand to gain ground in neighboring Tunisia and Egypt as well, after they shook off longtime dictators.
> 
> Libyan leaders have said they will form a new interim government within a month of liberation and hold elections for a constitutional assembly within eight months after that.
> 
> Concern about human rights violations clouded the declaration of liberation by Libya's new leaders on Sunday.
> 
> The New York-based Human Rights Watch warned Monday of a "trend of killings, looting and other abuses" by those who fought Gadhafi after finding 53 decomposing bodies, apparently of Gadhafi loyalists, some of whom it said may have been executed by revolutionary forces.
> 
> The bodies were found on the lawn of the abandoned Mahari hotel in Sirte, and some had their hands bound. HRW researcher Peter Bouckaert said the hotel had come under the control of fighters from Misrata before the killings took place.



Gaddafi Death Questioned


----------



## idb

I don't think his death should be stressed over.
I understand the reasons for looking at the legalities but he's dead and a new country is about to emerge.
Just draw a line under it all and start afresh.


----------



## alexa

idb said:


> I don't think his death should be stressed over.
> I understand the reasons for looking at the legalities but he's dead and a new country is about to emerge.
> Just draw a line under it all and start afresh.



Really, you think Libya should not be held to the same standards as the rest of the world do you?  That will be well helpful to all those not in the favourite group.

Now we have pictures of 53 men executed in Sirte with their hands tied.



BBC News - Bodies of Gaddafi supporters 'found executed' in Sirte


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Buried: Burial Of Gaddafi, Muatassim And Abu Bakr Younis In Secret Location 








> MISRATA, Libya -- Longtime Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, his son Muatassim and a top aide were buried in an Islamic ceremony at dawn Tuesday in a secret location, with a few relatives and officials in attendance, officials said.
> 
> The burial closed the book on Gadhafi's nearly 42-year rule and the 8-month civil war to oust him, but did not silence international calls for an investigation into whether the widely despised tyrant was executed by his captors.
> 
> Meanwhile, a government spokesman said an explosion rocked a fuel depot near Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte on Monday and that there were casualties. Col. Ahmed Bani said the blast is being treated as an accident, but that an investigation has been launched.
> 
> A human rights researcher, Tirana Hassan, said that while in Sirte on Monday, said she saw 11 people with severe burns arrive at the city's Ibn Sina hospital. Nurses said the injuries were from the blast.
> 
> The bodies of Gadhafi, Muatassim and former Defense Minster Abu Bakr Younis were removed overnight from the commercial freezer in Misrata where they'd been on display for four days. They were then buried at dawn Tuesday, according to Ibrahim Beitalmal, a spokesman for the military council in Misrata. Bani also confirmed the burial.
> 
> In a text message, Beitalmal said Islamic prayers were read over the bodies and that relatives and members of the local and military councils of Misrata attended the funeral. Beitalmal could not immediately reached by phone Tuesday to provide further details.
> 
> On Monday, Beitalmal said the three would be buried in unmarked graves to prevent vandalism. Presumably, the location would also be kept hidden to prevent it from turning into a shrine for Gadhafi loyalists.
> 
> International organizations asking to see the burial site would be given access, Beitalmal said.
> 
> The three bodies had been held in cold storage in Misrata since the dictator and members of his entourage were captured near his hometown of Sirte on Thursday after their convoy came under attack by NATO. For days, Misratans had lined up to see the bodies, donning surgical masks to cover the stench from the bodies.
> 
> Over the weekend, Libya's chief pathologist, Dr. Othman el-Zentani, performed autopsies on the three bodies and also took DNA samples to confirm their identities. El-Zentani has said Gadhafi died from a shot to the head, and said the full report would be released later this week, after he presents his findings to the attorney general.
> 
> Gadhafi and Muatassim were captured alive, with some injuries, but died in unclear circumstances later that day.
> 
> Responding to mounting international pressure, Libya's interim leaders have promised an investigation to establish whether Gadhafi was killed in an execution-style slaying after being captured alive Thursday by fighters in his hometown of Sirte or whether he died in the crossfire as government officials have suggested. Video footage showed him being beaten and abused by a mob after his capture.
> 
> The New York-based Human Rights Watch said there are strong indications that Gadhafi was killed in custody.
> 
> Hassan, a researcher for the group, said she spoke Monday to a 30-year-old Sirte resident who had traveled in the convoy that tried to smuggle Gadhafi out of Sirte.



Gaddafi Buried: Burial Of Gaddafi, Muatassim And Abu Bakr Younis In Secret Location


----------



## High_Gravity

idb said:


> I don't think his death should be stressed over.
> I understand the reasons for looking at the legalities but he's dead and a new country is about to emerge.
> Just draw a line under it all and start afresh.



I agree 100%.


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Dead: Former Leader Lived Desperate Final Weeks 








> MISRATA, Libya  Moammar Gadhafi, Libya's all-powerful leader for four decades, spent his final weeks shuttling from hideout to hideout in his hometown of Sirte, alternating between rage and despair as his regime crumbled around him, said a regime insider now in custody.
> 
> Gadhafi, his son Muatassim and an entourage of two dozen die-hard loyalists were largely cut off from the world while on the run, living in abandoned homes without TV, phones or electricity, using candles for light, said Mansour Dao, a member of the Gadhafi clan and former chief bodyguard.
> 
> Gadhafi would spend his time reading, jotting down notes or brewing tea on a coal stove, Dao said late Monday in a conference room  now serving as a jail cell  of the revolutionary forces' headquarters in the port city of Misrata. "He was not leading the battle," Dao said of Gadhafi. "His sons did that. He did not plan anything or think about any plan."
> 
> The uprising against Gadhafi erupted in February and quickly escalated into a civil war that formally ended Sunday, with a declaration of liberation by Libya's new leaders. Gadhafi's capture and death Thursday, along with the fall of Sirte, the last regime stronghold, paved the way for that milestone.
> 
> On the day of Gadhafi's capture, a loyalist convoy, including an olive-green Toyota Landcruiser carrying the former Libyan leader and Dao, sped out of Sirte to try to escape. But the convoy was hit by a NATO airstrike. Gadhafi and Dao were wounded and captured, and Gadhafi died in unclear circumstances later that day.
> 
> Libya's interim government has agreed under mounting international pressure to open an investigation.
> 
> Libyan officials claim Gadhafi was killed in crossfire between revolutionary fighters and loyalists. However, video footage has emerged showing Gadhafi being beaten, taunted and abused by his captors. Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch said Monday that there are strong indications that Gadhafi and Muatassim were killed in custody. He said a Libyan woman in the convoy told the rights group that Gadhafi was only lightly hurt in the NATO strike.
> 
> Dao, who was one of more than a dozen loyalists captured at the time, said he fell unconscious from his injuries before Gadhafi's capture and does not know what happened to his boss.
> 
> The bodies of Gadhafi, Muatassim and Abu Bakr Younis, Gadhafi's defense minister, were put on public display in a commercial refrigerator in the port city of Misrata for four days, before being buried at dawn Tuesday in unmarked graves in an undisclosed location. A Misrata official said they were given an Islamic burial, with some relatives in attendance.
> 
> Dao said Gadhafi fled his residential compound in Tripoli around Aug. 18 or 19, just before revolutionary forces swept into the city. After the capital's fall, Dao said Gadhafi headed directly to Sirte, accompanied by Muatassim. Gadhafi's former heir apparent, Seif al-Islam, sought refuge in Bani Walid, another loyalist stronghold, Dao said.
> 
> Dao joined Gadhafi in Sirte a week later, while Libya's former intelligence chief, Abdullah al-Senoussi, shuttled between Sirte and the southern city of Sabha, the third remaining pro-Gadhafi bastion at the time. Al-Senoussi and Seif al-Islam, wanted by the International Criminal Court on war crimes charges, remain at large.
> 
> Gadhafi's aides repeatedly urged him to step aside and leave the country, but he refused, saying he wanted to die in the land of his ancestors, according to Dao.
> 
> "I feel sorry for him because he underestimated the situation," Dao said. "He could have left and gotten out of the country and lived a happy life."
> 
> Dao had worked for Gadhafi since 1980, including as chief of his personal security in the 1990s. Later, he assumed command of the so-called Peoples' Guards, whose main aim was to hunt down Gadhafi's opponents.
> 
> In Sirte, Gadhafi and his entourage switched hideouts about every four days, as the city was pounded by NATO airstrikes and revolutionary forces advanced. The group stayed within the confines of District 2, seeking shelter in homes residents had abandoned as they fled the fighting.
> 
> "We were scared of the airstrikes and shelling," Dao said, adding that he did not believe Gadhafi was afraid.



Gaddafi Dead: Former Leader Lived Desperate Final Weeks


----------



## High_Gravity

Seif Al Islam Gaddafi Nearing Niger Border, Tuareg Official Says 









> DAKAR, Senegal  Moammar Gadhafi's son and one-time heir apparent is now believed to be heading toward Niger, a desert nation just south of Libya where his brother and dozens of Gadhafi loyalists already have sought refuge, a government official said Tuesday.
> 
> Rissa ag Boula, an adviser to Niger's president and an elected member of the regional council of the northern Nigerien town of Agadez, spoke to The Associated Press by telephone. He said he was in touch with the ethnic Tuaregs who are helping guide Seif al-Islam Gadhafi across the ocean of dunes that mark the path from Libya to next-door Algeria and finally to Niger.
> 
> The ethnic Tuaregs were among Gadhafi's strongest supporters that fought to keep him in power and one of his other sons as well as several of his generals relied on Tuareg guides to reach Niger in September.
> 
> "If he comes here, the government will accept him, but the government will also need to respect its international obligations. It's up to him to decide (whether to stay on the run or come to Niger)," Boula said, referring to the fact that Seif al-Islam is wanted by the International Criminal Court.
> 
> Boula, who is Tuareg himself and earlier led a rebellion against the Nigerien government that was reportedly funded by Gadhafi, said that Seif al-Islam appeared to be poised to cross into Algeria in order to make his way to Niger. It would be the same route that his brother al-Saadi Gadhafi and more than 30 other Gadhafi loyalists had used in September.
> 
> Niger's government has said that members of the Gadhafi regime wanted by the International Criminal will be turned over to the world body.
> 
> Al-Saadi Gadhafi, who is not wanted by the the world court but is the subject of a United Nations sanction, and several others considered key regime figures have been placed under house arrest in Niger's capital in a gated compound. The others are also under surveillance but are allowed to leave their villas, Niger's government said.



Seif Al Islam Gaddafi Nearing Niger Border, Tuareg Official Says


----------



## idb

alexa said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think his death should be stressed over.
> I understand the reasons for looking at the legalities but he's dead and a new country is about to emerge.
> Just draw a line under it all and start afresh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really, you think Libya should not be held to the same standards as the rest of the world do you?  That will be well helpful to all those not in the favourite group.
> 
> Now we have pictures of 53 men executed in Sirte with their hands tied.
> 
> 
> 
> BBC News - Bodies of Gaddafi supporters 'found executed' in Sirte
Click to expand...


I'm talking about Gaddafi specifically.
Take his death as point zero if you like - the new Libya starts from there.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: NATO Delays End To Bombing Campaign 








> BRUSSELS -- NATO postponed a definite decision to end its bombing campaign in Libya as consultations continued Wednesday with the U.N. and the country's interim government over how and when to wind down the operation.
> 
> Last week, the alliance announced preliminary plans to phase out its mission on Oct. 31. NATO's governing body  the North Atlantic Council, or NAC  was expected to formalize that decision Wednesday.
> 
> Air patrols have continued in the meantime because some alliance members were concerned that a quick end to NATO's seven-month operation could lead to a resurgence in violence.
> 
> On Wednesday, spokeswoman Carmen Romero said NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen was consulting with the United Nations and Libya's National Transition Council.
> 
> "The NAC will meet with partners on Friday to discuss our Libya mission and take a formal decision," she said, adding that there was an "ongoing process" in the U.N. Security Council.
> 
> U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Tuesday during a visit to Japan that some of Libya's leaders had called for NATO to continue its mission "during this interim as they try to establish some new governance."
> 
> Panetta declined to say whether the Obama administration intends to seek military ties with Libya's new government, amid uncertainty about Islamist influences there after the demise of strongman Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> NATO's 26,000 sorties, including 9,600 strike missions, destroyed about 5,900 military targets since they started on March 31. These included Libya's air defenses and more than 1,000 tanks, vehicles and guns, as well as Gadhafi's command and control networks.
> 
> The daily airstrikes enabled the rebels' ragtag forces to advance and take Tripoli two months ago. On Sunday, Libya's interim rulers declared the country liberated, launching the oil-rich nation on what is meant to be a two-year transition to democracy.



Libya: NATO Delays End To Bombing Campaign


----------



## alexa

> COLONEL Gaddafi's son Saif-al-Islam is ready to turn himself in, according to a senior Libya official.
> 
> Abdel Majid Mlegta, a senior military figure in Libya's new transitional government, said Saif and former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi want to hand themselves in to the International Criminal Court.
> 
> "They are proposing a way to hand themselves over to The Hague," Mlegta told Reuters from Libya.
> 
> However, the ICC said they have not had confirmation on this move, with a spokesman adding: "We are trying to contact the National Transitional Council for more information."
> 
> Mlegta said his information came from intelligence sources who told him that Saif al-Islam and Senussi were trying to broker a deal to surrender to the court through a neighbouring country, which he did not name.
> 
> They had concluded that it was not safe for them to remain in Libya, or to go to Algeria or Niger, two countries where Gaddafi family members are already sheltering.
> 
> Read more: Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam 'set to hand himself in to war crimes court' - mirror.co.uk



I want him caught alive and brought to the Hague so we can hear what he has to say.


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> COLONEL Gaddafi's son Saif-al-Islam is ready to turn himself in, according to a senior Libya official.
> 
> Abdel Majid Mlegta, a senior military figure in Libya's new transitional government, said Saif and former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi want to hand themselves in to the International Criminal Court.
> 
> "They are proposing a way to hand themselves over to The Hague," Mlegta told Reuters from Libya.
> 
> However, the ICC said they have not had confirmation on this move, with a spokesman adding: "We are trying to contact the National Transitional Council for more information."
> 
> Mlegta said his information came from intelligence sources who told him that Saif al-Islam and Senussi were trying to broker a deal to surrender to the court through a neighbouring country, which he did not name.
> 
> They had concluded that it was not safe for them to remain in Libya, or to go to Algeria or Niger, two countries where Gaddafi family members are already sheltering.
> 
> Read more: Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam 'set to hand himself in to war crimes court' - mirror.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want him caught alive and brought to the Hague so we can hear what he has to say.
Click to expand...


Man hes really turning himself in? If I were him I would be in Cuba or Venezuela right now, to hell with all this.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COLONEL Gaddafi's son Saif-al-Islam is ready to turn himself in, according to a senior Libya official.
> 
> Abdel Majid Mlegta, a senior military figure in Libya's new transitional government, said Saif and former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi want to hand themselves in to the International Criminal Court.
> 
> "They are proposing a way to hand themselves over to The Hague," Mlegta told Reuters from Libya.
> 
> However, the ICC said they have not had confirmation on this move, with a spokesman adding: "We are trying to contact the National Transitional Council for more information."
> 
> Mlegta said his information came from intelligence sources who told him that Saif al-Islam and Senussi were trying to broker a deal to surrender to the court through a neighbouring country, which he did not name.
> 
> They had concluded that it was not safe for them to remain in Libya, or to go to Algeria or Niger, two countries where Gaddafi family members are already sheltering.
> 
> Read more: Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam 'set to hand himself in to war crimes court' - mirror.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want him caught alive and brought to the Hague so we can hear what he has to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man hes really turning himself in? If I were him I would be in Cuba or Venezuela right now, to hell with all this.
Click to expand...


Well we'll need to wait and see if it is true and even if it is true it still would possibly be a very difficult thing to get him there alive.

It sounds like he is not finding it easy to move and does not have confidence in his safety in any country he can get to, assuming this report is true.


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want him caught alive and brought to the Hague so we can hear what he has to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man hes really turning himself in? If I were him I would be in Cuba or Venezuela right now, to hell with all this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well we'll need to wait and see if it is true and even if it is true it still would possibly be a very difficult thing to get him there alive.
> 
> It sounds like he is not finding it easy to move and does not have confidence in his safety in any country he can get to, assuming this report is true.
Click to expand...


If they turn him over to the Libyans, he is dead, no if ands or but about it, this is potential suicide I would never turn myself over if I were him.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man hes really turning himself in? If I were him I would be in Cuba or Venezuela right now, to hell with all this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well we'll need to wait and see if it is true and even if it is true it still would possibly be a very difficult thing to get him there alive.
> 
> It sounds like he is not finding it easy to move and does not have confidence in his safety in any country he can get to, assuming this report is true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they turn him over to the Libyans, he is dead, no if ands or but about it, this is potential suicide I would never turn myself over if I were him.
Click to expand...


I agree that would be why he has mentioned from a neighbouring country. Maybe he is there already.  I think his best hope is to get the ICC to arrange his transfer but even then I think there are a lot of people who will kill him if they can.


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well we'll need to wait and see if it is true and even if it is true it still would possibly be a very difficult thing to get him there alive.
> 
> It sounds like he is not finding it easy to move and does not have confidence in his safety in any country he can get to, assuming this report is true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they turn him over to the Libyans, he is dead, no if ands or but about it, this is potential suicide I would never turn myself over if I were him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree that would be why he has mentioned from a neighbouring country. Maybe he is there already.  I think his best hope is to get the ICC to arrange his transfer but even then I think there are a lot of people who will kill him if they can.
Click to expand...


He is not safe if he is anywhere near Libya, everyone knows Seif was next in line to replace his dad and he was very adamant about putting down the revolution, you know they have not forgotten that, the Libyans will want his head.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they turn him over to the Libyans, he is dead, no if ands or but about it, this is potential suicide I would never turn myself over if I were him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that would be why he has mentioned from a neighbouring country. Maybe he is there already.  I think his best hope is to get the ICC to arrange his transfer but even then I think there are a lot of people who will kill him if they can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is not safe if he is anywhere near Libya, everyone knows Seif was next in line to replace his dad and he was very adamant about putting down the revolution, you know they have not forgotten that, the Libyans will want his head.
Click to expand...


Well it may be that or it may be this



> In any case, they said that Niger was asking for too much money for them to stay.



Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi proposes handing himself in | News | National Post

On Saturday he was apparently claiming he was going to have a 'comeback' and there are Libyans who say they are ready for him



> According to RIA Novosti, a Russian news agency, an un-named website of Gaddafi's supporters had earlier posted a statement that Seif al-Islam had been named an heir to the Libyan dictator and charged with the command of forces fighting the rebels. Other reports circulating say that Sayf al-Islam al-Qaddafi has already got the support of the tribes loyal to his father Mu'ammar al-Qaddafi, tribes which had promised to fight against the current government and take revenge for the "killing of the colonel and his son Mutassim". Some experts now suggest the Libyan conflict could now be prolonged and grow from a political into an interethnic struggle.



Saif al-Islam Gaddafi: "We continue our resistance to full revenge"

Then there is the tales we hear about Western Societies not wanting to hear what he will reveal and I have even heard some things about wanting him gone concerning Africa.

I think it will be a hard job for the ICC to manage to get him safely out if he has decided to give himself up with so many whose interest it is for him to be dead.


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that would be why he has mentioned from a neighbouring country. Maybe he is there already.  I think his best hope is to get the ICC to arrange his transfer but even then I think there are a lot of people who will kill him if they can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is not safe if he is anywhere near Libya, everyone knows Seif was next in line to replace his dad and he was very adamant about putting down the revolution, you know they have not forgotten that, the Libyans will want his head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well it may be that or it may be this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, they said that Niger was asking for too much money for them to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi proposes handing himself in | News | National Post
> 
> On Saturday he was apparently claiming he was going to have a 'comeback' and there are Libyans who say they are ready for him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to RIA Novosti, a Russian news agency, an un-named website of Gaddafi's supporters had earlier posted a statement that Seif al-Islam had been named an heir to the Libyan dictator and charged with the command of forces fighting the rebels. Other reports circulating say that Sayf al-Islam al-Qaddafi has already got the support of the tribes loyal to his father Mu'ammar al-Qaddafi, tribes which had promised to fight against the current government and take revenge for the "killing of the colonel and his son Mutassim". Some experts now suggest the Libyan conflict could now be prolonged and grow from a political into an interethnic struggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saif al-Islam Gaddafi: "We continue our resistance to full revenge"
> 
> Then there is the tales we hear about Western Societies not wanting to hear what he will reveal and I have even heard some things about wanting him gone concerning Africa.
> 
> I think it will be a hard job for the ICC to manage to get him safely out if he has decided to give himself up with so many whose interest it is for him to be dead.
Click to expand...


Why not board a plane to Cuba and continue the struggle there?


----------



## alexa

There is some interesting speculation going on though



> A UK- based website aligned to the MDC is reporting that ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is now a guest of Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe in Harare.
> 
> The website quotes the MDC Veterans Activists Association as having have called on Zimbabweans to storm the house in the Gunhill suburb of Harare to effect a mass citizens' arrest.
> 
> Eyewitness reports say riot police have taken over Africa Unity Square in a strong show of force. It is unclear whether this is related to widespread rumours sweeping the capital about Gaddafi's presence.
> 
> The VAA claims Gaddafi staged a nocturnal entry into Zimbabwe aboard a Zimbabwe Air force jet that landed at Suri-Suri Airbase in Chegutu at 01:07am on Wednesday morning
> 
> "He was quickly whisked to a sprawling mansion in Harare's Gunhill suburb under the cover of darkness with members of MDC VAA in a secret pursuit. We kept a hawk's eye on the house since Wednesday until this morning (Friday)," says their statement.
> 
> Observers here believe this is highly unlikely, as the military base is a no-go area and casual observers cannot possibly see what goes on there.
> 
> *Furthermore, the VAA's statement that they saw "heavily armed female blonde body guards of Libyan origin patrolling around the house where the former despot is holed up" stretched the imagination a little too far.*
> 
> The group, which claims to have video footage, has not yet released it. Our requests to VAA for further evidence have thus far gone unanswered. More later.



Website claims Gaddafi in Harare | The Zimbabwean


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> There is some interesting speculation going on though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A UK- based website aligned to the MDC is reporting that ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is now a guest of Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe in Harare.
> 
> The website quotes the MDC Veterans Activists Association as having have called on Zimbabweans to storm the house in the Gunhill suburb of Harare to effect a mass citizens' arrest.
> 
> Eyewitness reports say riot police have taken over Africa Unity Square in a strong show of force. It is unclear whether this is related to widespread rumours sweeping the capital about Gaddafi's presence.
> 
> The VAA claims Gaddafi staged a nocturnal entry into Zimbabwe aboard a Zimbabwe Air force jet that landed at Suri-Suri Airbase in Chegutu at 01:07am on Wednesday morning
> 
> "He was quickly whisked to a sprawling mansion in Harare's Gunhill suburb under the cover of darkness with members of MDC VAA in a secret pursuit. We kept a hawk's eye on the house since Wednesday until this morning (Friday)," says their statement.
> 
> Observers here believe this is highly unlikely, as the military base is a no-go area and casual observers cannot possibly see what goes on there.
> 
> *Furthermore, the VAA's statement that they saw "heavily armed female blonde body guards of Libyan origin patrolling around the house where the former despot is holed up" stretched the imagination a little too far.*
> 
> The group, which claims to have video footage, has not yet released it. Our requests to VAA for further evidence have thus far gone unanswered. More later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Website claims Gaddafi in Harare | The Zimbabwean
Click to expand...


Hmmm Seif would be safe in Harare, I don't see Mugabe turning him in.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is some interesting speculation going on though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A UK- based website aligned to the MDC is reporting that ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is now a guest of Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe in Harare.
> 
> The website quotes the MDC Veterans Activists Association as having have called on Zimbabweans to storm the house in the Gunhill suburb of Harare to effect a mass citizens' arrest.
> 
> Eyewitness reports say riot police have taken over Africa Unity Square in a strong show of force. It is unclear whether this is related to widespread rumours sweeping the capital about Gaddafi's presence.
> 
> The VAA claims Gaddafi staged a nocturnal entry into Zimbabwe aboard a Zimbabwe Air force jet that landed at Suri-Suri Airbase in Chegutu at 01:07am on Wednesday morning
> 
> "He was quickly whisked to a sprawling mansion in Harare's Gunhill suburb under the cover of darkness with members of MDC VAA in a secret pursuit. We kept a hawk's eye on the house since Wednesday until this morning (Friday)," says their statement.
> 
> Observers here believe this is highly unlikely, as the military base is a no-go area and casual observers cannot possibly see what goes on there.
> 
> *Furthermore, the VAA's statement that they saw "heavily armed female blonde body guards of Libyan origin patrolling around the house where the former despot is holed up" stretched the imagination a little too far.*
> 
> The group, which claims to have video footage, has not yet released it. Our requests to VAA for further evidence have thus far gone unanswered. More later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Website claims Gaddafi in Harare | The Zimbabwean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm Seif would be safe in Harare, I don't see Mugabe turning him in.
Click to expand...


I must admit the same thought crossed my mind.


----------



## alexa

More war crimes in 'Liberated' Libya



> The 267 bodies were found in recent days in the city of Sirte and its suburbs, according to the Quryna newspaper which cited Red Cross sources. It said most of the victims were people loyal to the regime of Gaddafi, who was captured and killed near Sirte last week.
> 
> The sources told the newspaper that the bodies were counted and photographed by transitional authorities before they were buried in mass graves near Sirte. Quryna reported that many of the victims appeared to have been executed.
> 
> According to the report, officials at the National Transitional Council (NTC) have pledged to conduct an investigation into the circumstances of the deaths and punish those responsible.
> 
> The news comes less than a week after 53 decomposing bodies were found in the garden of the Mahari Hotel in Sirte. Human Rights Watch said the victims were apparently supporters of Gaddafi and had been executed, possibly by anti-Gaddafi forces who were staying at the hotel.



Channel 6 News » Report: More than 250 Gaddafi supporters found dead in Sirte


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is some interesting speculation going on though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A UK- based website aligned to the MDC is reporting that ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is now a guest of Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe in Harare.
> 
> The website quotes the MDC Veterans Activists Association as having have called on Zimbabweans to storm the house in the Gunhill suburb of Harare to effect a mass citizens' arrest.
> 
> Eyewitness reports say riot police have taken over Africa Unity Square in a strong show of force. It is unclear whether this is related to widespread rumours sweeping the capital about Gaddafi's presence.
> 
> The VAA claims Gaddafi staged a nocturnal entry into Zimbabwe aboard a Zimbabwe Air force jet that landed at Suri-Suri Airbase in Chegutu at 01:07am on Wednesday morning
> 
> "He was quickly whisked to a sprawling mansion in Harare's Gunhill suburb under the cover of darkness with members of MDC VAA in a secret pursuit. We kept a hawk's eye on the house since Wednesday until this morning (Friday)," says their statement.
> 
> Observers here believe this is highly unlikely, as the military base is a no-go area and casual observers cannot possibly see what goes on there.
> 
> *Furthermore, the VAA's statement that they saw "heavily armed female blonde body guards of Libyan origin patrolling around the house where the former despot is holed up" stretched the imagination a little too far.*
> 
> The group, which claims to have video footage, has not yet released it. Our requests to VAA for further evidence have thus far gone unanswered. More later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Website claims Gaddafi in Harare | The Zimbabwean
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm Seif would be safe in Harare, I don't see Mugabe turning him in.
Click to expand...


 oops, that one was about Dad and was in August.....


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is some interesting speculation going on though
> 
> 
> 
> Website claims Gaddafi in Harare | The Zimbabwean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm Seif would be safe in Harare, I don't see Mugabe turning him in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oops, that one was about Dad and was in August.....
Click to expand...


Oh, yeah I bet Gaddafi wishes he did go to Zimbabwe, I know Uganda offered to take him as well.


----------



## idb

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that would be why he has mentioned from a neighbouring country. Maybe he is there already.  I think his best hope is to get the ICC to arrange his transfer but even then I think there are a lot of people who will kill him if they can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is not safe if he is anywhere near Libya, everyone knows Seif was next in line to replace his dad and he was very adamant about putting down the revolution, you know they have not forgotten that, the Libyans will want his head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well it may be that or it may be this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, they said that Niger was asking for too much money for them to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi proposes handing himself in | News | National Post
> 
> On Saturday he was apparently claiming he was going to have a 'comeback' and there are Libyans who say they are ready for him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to RIA Novosti, a Russian news agency, an un-named website of Gaddafi's supporters had earlier posted a statement that Seif al-Islam had been named an heir to the Libyan dictator and charged with the command of forces fighting the rebels. Other reports circulating say that Sayf al-Islam al-Qaddafi has already got the support of the tribes loyal to his father Mu'ammar al-Qaddafi, tribes which had promised to fight against the current government and take revenge for the "killing of the colonel and his son Mutassim". Some experts now suggest the Libyan conflict could now be prolonged and grow from a political into an interethnic struggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saif al-Islam Gaddafi: "We continue our resistance to full revenge"
> 
> Then there is the tales we hear about Western Societies not wanting to hear what he will reveal and I have even heard some things about wanting him gone concerning Africa.
> 
> I think it will be a hard job for the ICC to manage to get him safely out if he has decided to give himself up with so many whose interest it is for him to be dead.
Click to expand...


I wonder if Julian Assange could offer him a couch?


----------



## High_Gravity

idb said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is not safe if he is anywhere near Libya, everyone knows Seif was next in line to replace his dad and he was very adamant about putting down the revolution, you know they have not forgotten that, the Libyans will want his head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well it may be that or it may be this
> 
> 
> 
> Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi proposes handing himself in | News | National Post
> 
> On Saturday he was apparently claiming he was going to have a 'comeback' and there are Libyans who say they are ready for him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to RIA Novosti, a Russian news agency, an un-named website of Gaddafi's supporters had earlier posted a statement that Seif al-Islam had been named an heir to the Libyan dictator and charged with the command of forces fighting the rebels. Other reports circulating say that Sayf al-Islam al-Qaddafi has already got the support of the tribes loyal to his father Mu'ammar al-Qaddafi, tribes which had promised to fight against the current government and take revenge for the "killing of the colonel and his son Mutassim". Some experts now suggest the Libyan conflict could now be prolonged and grow from a political into an interethnic struggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saif al-Islam Gaddafi: "We continue our resistance to full revenge"
> 
> Then there is the tales we hear about Western Societies not wanting to hear what he will reveal and I have even heard some things about wanting him gone concerning Africa.
> 
> I think it will be a hard job for the ICC to manage to get him safely out if he has decided to give himself up with so many whose interest it is for him to be dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder if Julian Assange could offer him a couch?
Click to expand...


Gaddafi should have moved to Calabasas back in March and started his own reality show "The Gaddafis'.


----------



## alexa

The plot thickens




> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels
> 
> Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy
> 
> The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.
> 
> Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.
> 
> Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.



Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian


----------



## L.K.Eder

alexa said:


> The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels
> 
> Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy
> 
> The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.
> 
> Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.
> 
> Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
Click to expand...




qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.


----------



## alexa

L.K.Eder said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels
> 
> Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy
> 
> The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.
> 
> Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.
> 
> Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.
Click to expand...


I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.

So tell me the non secret I missed  We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.


----------



## L.K.Eder

alexa said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.
> 
> So tell me the non secret I missed  We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.
Click to expand...


qatar was in it from the beginning.

the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".

rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.


----------



## alexa

L.K.Eder said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qatari influence by money and military was not a secret.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.
> 
> So tell me the non secret I missed  We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> qatar was in it from the beginning.
> 
> the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".
> 
> rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.
Click to expand...


I must have missed that.  I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved.  The first line of the article was 





> Qatar has admitted for the first time that it sent hundreds of troops to support the Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi's regime.



Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?

Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training


----------



## L.K.Eder

alexa said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember hearing anything about it and we were told Res 1973 was about trying to protect civilians and was about a no fly zone and definitely not about going in on the ground.
> 
> So tell me the non secret I missed  We were told we doing a no fly zone because Gaddafi was committing genocide and had decided on his troops raping as an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qatar was in it from the beginning.
> 
> the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".
> 
> rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must have missed that.  I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved.  The first line of the article was
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar has admitted for the first time that it sent hundreds of troops to support the Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi's regime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?
> 
> Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training
Click to expand...


just for starters:
qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".

Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com

and al jazeera is from qatar.

they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.

granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.


----------



## alexa

L.K.Eder said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> qatar was in it from the beginning.
> 
> the extent regarding troops on the ground was a "secret".
> 
> rebels were trained by qatar, egypt, the us etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must have missed that.  I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved.  The first line of the article was
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar has admitted for the first time that it sent hundreds of troops to support the Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi's regime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?
> 
> Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> just for starters:
> qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".
> 
> Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com
> 
> and al jazeera is from qatar.
> 
> they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.
> 
> granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.
Click to expand...


Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this.  There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.

Edit:  To be honest your link just says 





> Qatar's Foreign Ministry has officially recognized the Benghazi-based Interim Transitional National Council as the "sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people," making the small Gulf Arab nation the first country in the Middle East to formally switch its alliance away from Col. Moammar Gadhafi to the Libyan opposition, according to Qatari officials.
> 
> Since the antigovernment protests in Tunisia back in December, Qatar has been leading the region in its support for a wave of popular uprisings, through its government-financed al-Jazeera news channel and through humanitarian and other



Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line.  I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before.  I had been thinking it was just the West.


----------



## L.K.Eder

alexa said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must have missed that.  I heard the Arab States were going to be involved and that they then didn't get involved.  The first line of the article was
> 
> Weren't troops on the ground always supposed to be a no no by everyone?
> 
> Edit: I do though remember hearing hush, hush, that we had sent in one or two people to advise them and give them some training
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just for starters:
> qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".
> 
> Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com
> 
> and al jazeera is from qatar.
> 
> they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.
> 
> granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this.  There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.
> 
> Edit:  To be honest your link just says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Foreign Ministry has officially recognized the Benghazi-based Interim Transitional National Council as the "sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people," making the small Gulf Arab nation the first country in the Middle East to formally switch its alliance away from Col. Moammar Gadhafi to the Libyan opposition, according to Qatari officials.
> 
> Since the antigovernment protests in Tunisia back in December, Qatar has been leading the region in its support for a wave of popular uprisings, through its government-financed al-Jazeera news channel and through humanitarian and other
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line.  I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before.  I had been thinking it was just the West.
Click to expand...


that was just for starters.

they were very open in their support.

they were 2nd in recognizing. in march!

they followed up with setting up a tv station, treating wounded rebels in qatar, and training rebels.

qatar sent fighter jets

Qatar Sending Fighter Jets to Help Enforce Libya No-Fly Zone - Defense News

but, to repeat.

the extent of troops on the ground was not reported


----------



## alexa

L.K.Eder said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> just for starters:
> qatar was the second country after france to recognize the rebels "government".
> 
> Qatar Recognizes Libyan Rebel Council - WSJ.com
> 
> and al jazeera is from qatar.
> 
> they documented this and qatar's involvement extensively.
> 
> granted, the boots on the ground were kind of a secret.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this.  There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.
> 
> Edit:  To be honest your link just says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar's Foreign Ministry has officially recognized the Benghazi-based Interim Transitional National Council as the "sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people," making the small Gulf Arab nation the first country in the Middle East to formally switch its alliance away from Col. Moammar Gadhafi to the Libyan opposition, according to Qatari officials.
> 
> Since the antigovernment protests in Tunisia back in December, Qatar has been leading the region in its support for a wave of popular uprisings, through its government-financed al-Jazeera news channel and through humanitarian and other
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line.  I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before.  I had been thinking it was just the West.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that was just for starters.
> 
> they were very open in their support.
> 
> they were 2nd in recognizing. in march!
> 
> they followed up with setting up a tv station, treating wounded rebels in qatar, and training rebels.
> 
> qatar sent fighter jets
> 
> Qatar Sending Fighter Jets to Help Enforce Libya No-Fly Zone - Defense News
> 
> but, to repeat.
> 
> the extent of troops on the ground was not reported
Click to expand...


OK I should have known about the planes.  I still thought no troops were allowed. I think it's right that none were allowed by Re 1973.  

It is going to be interesting seeing how this eventually pan's out.

The independent carried an article early on saying Amnesty/HRW said there was no evidence of genocide or Gaddafi's troops using rape as a war tactic.  I cannot help being interested in what the real reason for this was   but now I am off to sleep


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels
> 
> Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy
> 
> The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.
> 
> Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.
> 
> Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
Click to expand...


Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough, I obviously wasn't listening to Al Jazzera on this.  There is a lot about this that I think we need yet to know. In fact I was reading an article which was pushing this as the West's reaction to the recession today and I am sure I was reading that at Al Jazeera.
> 
> Edit:  To be honest your link just says
> 
> Most countries were recognising the rebels. This gives me no hint that they are on the ground, organising things and even leading on the front line.  I don't think I heard anything to suggest they had such a significant and major part in it before.  I had been thinking it was just the West.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that was just for starters.
> 
> they were very open in their support.
> 
> they were 2nd in recognizing. in march!
> 
> they followed up with setting up a tv station, treating wounded rebels in qatar, and training rebels.
> 
> qatar sent fighter jets
> 
> Qatar Sending Fighter Jets to Help Enforce Libya No-Fly Zone - Defense News
> 
> but, to repeat.
> 
> the extent of troops on the ground was not reported
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK I should have known about the planes.  I still thought no troops were allowed. I think it's right that none were allowed by Re 1973.
> 
> It is going to be interesting seeing how this eventually pan's out.
> 
> The independent carried an article early on saying Amnesty/HRW said there was no evidence of genocide or Gaddafi's troops using rape as a war tactic.  I cannot help being interested in what the real reason for this was   but now I am off to sleep
Click to expand...


Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels
> 
> Qatari chief-of-staff reveals extent of involvment, saying troops were responsible for training, communications and strategy
> 
> The revelation came as Qatar hosted a conference on the post-Gaddafi era that was attended by the leader of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who described the Qataris as having planned the battles that paved the way for victory.
> 
> Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.
> 
> Libyan gratitude is clear. The maroon and white flag of Qatar is often flown at celebrations and Algeria Square in central Tripoli has been renamed Qatar Square in honour of the country's support in toppling Gaddafi. Some, however, express concern at the emirate's support for Islamist elements such as the 17 February Martyrs Brigade, one of the most influential rebel formations, led by Abdel-Hakim Belhaj.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.
Click to expand...


I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24.  I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.

The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew  Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.

I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation.  I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.



High_Gravity said:


> Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.



The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force.  I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit.  From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.

Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in *front line fighters*. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24.  I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.
> 
> The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew  Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.
> 
> I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation.  I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force.  I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit.  From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.
> 
> Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in *front line fighters*. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.
Click to expand...


I have a feeling the Qataris were not on the front lines, because I have not see any pictures of them unless they were in plaine clothes, its possible they were helping call in NATO Air Strikes from the rear and helping arm and train the rebels, I'm sure we had guys from the CIA and possibly Special Forces down there too but of course I have no proof of that. Either way its a mute point, Gaddafi is dead, his regime is gone and a new government is taking shape in Libya.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats nothing new, the Arab league hated Gaddafi and wanted him gone. Bahrain and Oman also helped arm the rebels and Egypt was flowing weapons over the border to them, several Arab countries also sent fighter jets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24.  I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.
> 
> The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew  Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.
> 
> I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation.  I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the work on the ground was still done by Libyans, it would take more than few hundred Qatari troops to overthrow Gaddafi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force.  I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit.  From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.
> 
> Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in *front line fighters*. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling the Qataris were not on the front lines, because I have not see any pictures of them unless they were in plaine clothes,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> maybe they were in plain clothes but there were repeated rumours and some sightings of them according to this article
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were repeated rumours about and occasional sightings of Qatari special forces in Libya during the war. Until now, however, there had been no official confirmation of actions that were not explicitly authorised by the UN.
> 
> The Qatari chief-of-staff, Major-General Hamad bin Ali al-Atiya, said: "We were among them and the numbers of Qataris on the ground were hundreds in every region. Training and communications had been in Qatari hands. Qatar  supervised the rebels' plans because they are civilians and did not have enough military experience," AFP quoted him as saying. "We acted as the link between the rebels and Nato forces."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> its possible they were helping call in NATO Air Strikes from the rear and helping arm and train the rebels,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They apparently did send most of their air force to help Nato but not only that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Qatari chief-of-staff, Major-General Hamad bin Ali al-Atiya, said: "We were among them and the numbers of Qataris on the ground were hundreds in every region. Training and communications had been in Qatari hands. Qatar  supervised the rebels' plans because they are civilians and did not have enough military experience," AFP quoted him as saying. "We acted as the link between the rebels and Nato forces."
> 
> Qatari special forces are reported to have provided infantry training to Libyan fighters in the western Nafusa mountains and in eastern Libya. Qatar's military even brought Libyan rebels back to Doha for exercises. And in the final assault on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in* Tripoli in late August, Qatari special forces were seen on the frontline*. Qatar also gave $400m to the rebels, helped them export oil from Benghazi and set up a TV station in Doha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Look what they say, *not hundreds but hundreds in every region* and in Tripoli, no doubt in plain clothes,* they are seen on the front line*.  (by those who know how to spy them of course)
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure we had guys from the CIA and possibly Special Forces down there too but of course I have no proof of that. Either way its a mute point,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it was mentioned in a secretive way every now and then that one or two of our people had dropped in for a cup of tea and to offer assistance - there must have been a heck of a lot of people on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaddafi is dead, his regime is gone and a new government is taking shape in Libya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is true and we will judge them on how they are.  We cannot change the past. However I want to find out what was going on here and because someone is dead and new people installed does not lesson the desire for the truth.
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to imagine that this wasn't all caused by me not paying attention because I was at times very interested and watching for quite long spells on News 24.  I suspect our media have been making a low profile of this.
> 
> The Arab League were supposed to be in agreement with NATO doing a no fly zone and were going to be a part of it...but then where are their planes was all I heard. Several times I heard questions or comments about how they had not followed up on their intention to join in the 'no fly' zone and yes, I knew  Gaddafi was not liked, not one of the Old Boys so to speak.
> 
> I also know there are several resources and reasons why people might want to oust Gaddafi and change the situation.  I just can't get away from the fact that the British Public were fed that we were going into prevent genocide and rape when it seems we were going in to help his neighbours overthrow him while taking some goodies for ourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> The UN resolution was for a no fly zone to protect civilians, no ground force.  I doubt if anyone would deny that the no fly zone did not in any way stick to it's remit.  From the very earlies they were after Gaddafi and his family and god knows what else we do not know about.
> 
> Qater, an outside country was according to itself responsible for training, communications and strategy and sent in *front line fighters*. I think that coupled with NATO's ruling of the skys and bombing of the the Governments positions and any seen movement probably did not leave a great deal for the rebels to do on their own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe they were in plain clothes but there were repeated rumours and some sightings of them according to this article
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They apparently did send most of their air force to help Nato but not only that...
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Look what they say, *not hundreds but hundreds in every region* and in Tripoli, no doubt in plain clothes,* they are seen on the front line*.  (by those who know how to spy them of course)
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it was mentioned in a secretive way every now and then that one or two of our people had dropped in for a cup of tea and to offer assistance - there must have been a heck of a lot of people on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaddafi is dead, his regime is gone and a new government is taking shape in Libya
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is true and we will judge them on how they are.  We cannot change the past. However I want to find out what was going on here and because someone is dead and new people installed does not lesson the desire for the truth.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I don't know if this war was started for access to Libyan oil because the international community already had it, Gaddafi gave up his WMD's and renounced terrorism in 2004, the US and the West had dropped the sanctions on Libya, re-established diplomatic relations and got the oil companies back over there, access to Libyan oil and assets were there with Gaddafi, so I don't think this was all about that.
Click to expand...


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe they were in plain clothes but there were repeated rumours and some sightings of them according to this article
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They apparently did send most of their air force to help Nato but not only that...
> 
> Qatar admits sending hundreds of troops to support Libya rebels | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Look what they say, *not hundreds but hundreds in every region* and in Tripoli, no doubt in plain clothes,* they are seen on the front line*.  (by those who know how to spy them of course)
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it was mentioned in a secretive way every now and then that one or two of our people had dropped in for a cup of tea and to offer assistance - there must have been a heck of a lot of people on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> *That is true and we will judge them on how they are.  We cannot change the past. However I want to find out what was going on here and because someone is dead and new people installed does not lesson the desire for the truth.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I don't know if this war was started for access to Libyan oil because the international community already had it, Gaddafi gave up his WMD's and renounced terrorism in 2004, the US and the West had dropped the sanctions on Libya, re-established diplomatic relations and got the oil companies back over there, access to Libyan oil and assets were there with Gaddafi, so I don't think this was all about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly so why choose him rather than Syria or Bahrain.  He was even locking up economic migrants and sending them back home so that they couldn't risk their lives getting to Italy. Whatever you think of Gaddafi, he must have felt totally betrayed.  I have heard people suggesting firstly, it will be a very hard job to get the UN to say yes to a no fly zone again and second, hold on to your nukes!!
> 
> No, it was clearly something else.  The situation was used opportunistically for some other reason. Sure France is supposed to have got a massive deal on the oil and who knows maybe that was enough to woo France, the first to offer to help.  Then there are other things which I haven't looked into properly, the possibility of him demanding Libyian oil be paid for in Gold for instance and then there is something about getting one's hand on Libya's vast reserves of water and some other things concerning his relations with Africa.
> 
> And then of course Qator has a US base I read last night
> 
> The Arab League wanted him gone, the possibility of him changing the way gold was sold was a fear for the west and others and lots of people possibly wanted to get their hands on Libya's water that is before even looking at the African connection.  I believe there is much more going on here than meets the eye, but right now I need to start getting ready for people coming to dinner.
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I don't know if this war was started for access to Libyan oil because the international community already had it, Gaddafi gave up his WMD's and renounced terrorism in 2004, the US and the West had dropped the sanctions on Libya, re-established diplomatic relations and got the oil companies back over there, access to Libyan oil and assets were there with Gaddafi, so I don't think this was all about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly so why choose him rather than Syria or Bahrain.  He was even locking up economic migrants and sending them back home so that they couldn't risk their lives getting to Italy. Whatever you think of Gaddafi, he must have felt totally betrayed.  I have heard people suggesting firstly, it will be a very hard job to get the UN to say yes to a no fly zone again and second, hold on to your nukes!!
> 
> No, it was clearly something else.  The situation was used opportunistically for some other reason. Sure France is supposed to have got a massive deal on the oil and who knows maybe that was enough to woo France, the first to offer to help.  Then there are other things which I haven't looked into properly, the possibility of him demanding Libyian oil be paid for in Gold for instance and then there is something about getting one's hand on Libya's vast reserves of water and some other things concerning his relations with Africa.
> 
> And then of course Qator has a US base I read last night
> 
> The Arab League wanted him gone, the possibility of him changing the way gold was sold was a fear for the west and others and lots of people possibly wanted to get their hands on Libya's water that is before even looking at the African connection.  I believe there is much more going on here than meets the eye, but right now I need to start getting ready for people coming to dinner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Qatar has a huge US Air base there, a friend of mine deployed there last year. After we invaded Iraq in 2003 we moved most of our troops from Saudi soil to Qatar. I am sure Gaddafi did feel betrayed, he met with Barack Obama and shook his hand a few years ago, as well as took pictures with Tony Blair and Condoleeza Rice. All in all I just hope the Libyans do the right thing, I would hate to look back at this in a few years as a big regret.
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

> Exactly so why choose him rather than Syria or Bahrain.



The Saudis do not want the Bahraini Regime to fall, they believe if Bahrain fell into Shite hands it would fall into Irans lap, and cause problems with the Shite population in Saudi Arabia, as far as Syria is concerned the Arab League doesn't really want Bashar gone, plus there isn't a big fighting force on the ground that is actively fighting Assads forces and siezing towns, as they were in Libya. Bombing the shit out of Syria won't accomplish much if there is not a force on the ground to topple the regime, the Arabs that helped in Libya will NOT be there in Syria, bet on that.


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Son Saif Al-Islam Headed To Mali, Official Says 









> DAKAR, Senegal  Moammar Gadhafi's intelligence chief, who is wanted by Interpol, fled to Mali overnight after making his way across Niger where he has been hiding for several days in the country's northern desert, an adviser to the president of Niger said Thursday.
> 
> The official, speaking on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the matter, said that Abdullah al-Senoussi entered Mali late Wednesday night via the Kidal region, which shares a border with Niger. He is guarded by a unit of about a dozen people and arrived in a convoy that was piloted by ethnic Tuaregs from Mali.
> 
> The official said that Gadhafi's hunted son, Seif al-Islam, is also on his way to Mali and is traveling across the invisible line separating Algeria from Niger. The area, an ungoverned expanse of dunes stretching for hundreds of miles, has been used for years by drug traffickers as well as by an offshoot of al-Qaida.
> 
> "Senoussi is in Mali ... he arrived yesterday," said the adviser, an influential elder in the ethnic Tuareg community which overwhelmingly supported Gadhafi and remained loyal to him despite Niger's official stance backing the country's new rulers.
> 
> "Seif is going to Mali too. He is right now between Niger and Algeria. He is in the territory at the frontier between the two, heading to Mali," the adviser said. "For the moment, they do not plan to approach the government. They are protected by the Tuaregs ... and they are choosing to stay in the desert."
> 
> The region through which they traveled is the traditional home of the Tuaregs, the desert dwellers whose members live in the nations abutting the Sahara desert from Mauritania in the east, through Mali, Niger, Libya and Chad. The group felt a kinship with Gadhafi who elevated the nomadic life by pitching his tent in the courtyards of four-star hotels in Europe.
> 
> Hundreds of Malian and Nigerien Tuaregs were recruited by Gadhafi to fight as hired guns in Libya in the final months of the conflict. The video showing how Gadhafi was manhandled after he was caught has deeply offended Tuareg communities throughout Africa.
> 
> Starting at dinnertime Wednesday, Tuareg elders met in Agadez to discuss the conflict posed by the arrival of Gadhafi's most trusted collaborators in light of the Niger's government's commitment to hand over anyone wanted by the world court. Both the son and the intelligence chief are wanted by the International Criminal Court which issued warrants for their arrest in May for crimes against humanity committed during the monthslong struggle for power in Libya.
> 
> About 30 other regime loyalists, including another Gadhafi son, al-Saadi, fled to Niger in September, but were apprehended by Niger's government and placed under house arrest.
> 
> "We are hearing the same reports as you, that Seif is in our zone. But our security forces have not run into him," said Massoudou Hassoumi, the chief of staff of Niger's President Mahamadou Issoufou. "The day that we run into him we will arrest him. He is pursued by the ICC, and we will hand him over in keeping with our international obligations."
> 
> In Mali, a tribal elder from the country's north where the fugitives are believed to be hiding, said that he doesn't think Mali will shield them from the ICC.
> 
> "People on the ground are saying that Senoussi is there," said the elder who asked not to be named because of the delicate nature of the issue.
> 
> "I don't know if Gadhafi's son is there too. It's a small group of vehicles which is to the northeast of Kidal Town. It's possible that they are with other Tuaregs who have returned from Libya," the elder said. "I think they know if they came here that Mali is going to hand them over to the ICC. In fact I think that's why they came here because they want to be safely handed over."
> 
> Niger's government, which is heavily dependent on aid, has been put in an impossible spot, forced to choose between its obligations to the international community and its powerful Tuareg community. The problem is similar in Mali, but President Amadou Toumani Toure is at the tail-end of his second term and is not seeking re-election, making him possibly freer to choose a course of action without fear of political repercussions.



Gaddafi Son Saif Al-Islam Headed To Mali, Official Says


----------



## alexa

Another update just come out a few minutes ago.



> THE HAGUE Oct 28 (Reuters) - The International Criminal Court prosecutor said on Friday that his office was in "informal contact" with the late Muammar Gaddafi's fugitive son Saif al-Islam over his possible surrender to the war crimes court.
> 
> Saif al-Islam went on the run after forces loyal to Libya's new rulers captured and apparently killed his father outside his hometown of Sirte. Saif al-Islam is believed to have fled across Libya's southern border into Niger.
> 
> "Through intermediaries, we have informal contact with Saif. The office of the prosecutor has made it clear that if he surrenders to the ICC, he has the right to be heard in court, he is innocent until proven guilty. The judges will decide," prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said in a statement.
> 
> "Additionally, we have learnt through informal channels that there is a group of mercenaries who are offering to move Saif to an African (country) not party to the Rome Statute of the ICC. The Office of the Prosecutor is also exploring the possibility to intercept any plane within the air space of a state party in order to make an arrest," he said.
> 
> Countries which are not party to the Rome Statute are not obliged to hand over suspects.



UPDATE 1-ICC prosecutor in contact with Gaddafi's son over surrender | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters

I had noticed earlier that some people were suggesting that his plea to give himself up might be an attempt to distract as he made his escape.  This seems to be also in the minds of the ICC


----------



## JStone

alexa said:


> Another update just come out a few minutes ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE HAGUE Oct 28 (Reuters) - The International Criminal Court prosecutor said on Friday that his office was in "informal contact" with the late Muammar Gaddafi's fugitive son Saif al-Islam over his possible surrender to the war crimes court.
> 
> Saif al-Islam went on the run after forces loyal to Libya's new rulers captured and apparently killed his father outside his hometown of Sirte. Saif al-Islam is believed to have fled across Libya's southern border into Niger.
> 
> "Through intermediaries, we have informal contact with Saif. The office of the prosecutor has made it clear that if he surrenders to the ICC, he has the right to be heard in court, he is innocent until proven guilty. The judges will decide," prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said in a statement.
> 
> "Additionally, we have learnt through informal channels that there is a group of mercenaries who are offering to move Saif to an African (country) not party to the Rome Statute of the ICC. The Office of the Prosecutor is also exploring the possibility to intercept any plane within the air space of a state party in order to make an arrest," he said.
> 
> Countries which are not party to the Rome Statute are not obliged to hand over suspects.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE 1-ICC prosecutor in contact with Gaddafi's son over surrender | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters
> 
> I had noticed earlier that some people were suggesting that his plea to give himself up might be an attempt to distract as he made his escape.  This seems to be also in the minds of the ICC
Click to expand...


Arabs are without question the most fucked up people on the planet


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm Seif would be safe in Harare, I don't see Mugabe turning him in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oops, that one was about Dad and was in August.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah I bet Gaddafi wishes he did go to Zimbabwe, I know Uganda offered to take him as well.
Click to expand...



Zimbabwe is where they think he might be headed.


BBC News - Libya: Gaddafi son Saif al-Islam in contact with ICC


----------



## High_Gravity

alexa said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> oops, that one was about Dad and was in August.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah I bet Gaddafi wishes he did go to Zimbabwe, I know Uganda offered to take him as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Zimbabwe is where they think he might be headed.
> 
> 
> BBC News - Libya: Gaddafi son Saif al-Islam in contact with ICC
Click to expand...


I would do it, I would do anything I could to avoid being handed over to the Libyans.


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah I bet Gaddafi wishes he did go to Zimbabwe, I know Uganda offered to take him as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimbabwe is where they think he might be headed.
> 
> 
> BBC News - Libya: Gaddafi son Saif al-Islam in contact with ICC
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would do it, I would do anything I could to avoid being handed over to the Libyans.
Click to expand...


Yes, that certainly would make sense after what happened to his father. Even the ICC is a better deal.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: NATO Announces End Of Mission 









> BRUSSELS -- NATO has announced it will end its air campaign over Libya next Monday, following the decision of the U.N. Security Council to lift the no-fly zone and end military action to protect civilians.
> 
> NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said on Friday that the operation was "one of the most successful in NATO history," one which was able to wind down quickly following the death of former Libyan leader, Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> Monitoring air patrols are expected to continue until Monday to make sure there are no more threats to civilians.
> 
> NATO's 26,000 sorties, including 9,600 strike missions, destroyed about 5,900 military targets since they started on March 31.



Libya: NATO Announces End Of Mission


----------



## High_Gravity

Libyas Sexual Revolution








> JANZOUR, Libya  When it comes to love, Muammar al-Qaddafi's Libya was unlucky for unmarried 33-year-old truck driver Ahmed Nori Faqiar. His looks would have benefited if his parents could ever have sprung for a dentist. Lack of means forced him to live unhappily at his childhood home well into adulthood. Marriage, a home of his own, kids -- all are dreams that the wiry Libyan had long ago steeled himself to stop hoping for.
> 
> "Before, I was not even daring to look at girls as wife material, because I knew I could not afford" to get married, say Faqiar now.
> 
> These days, though, Faqiar wears the mismatched camouflage of Libya's rebels and a dashing bandana on his head, pirate-style. He carries a gun. He is a veteran of battles for Libyans' freedom from Qaddafi's regime -- and it's the women who are talking to him.
> 
> "Girls around the area come up to you and say, Thank you! You made us proud, you made us happy,'" Faqiar told me one night recently. He spoke on the sidelines of a camel and couscous feast that the people in this Tripoli suburb threw for several thousand young rebels, after slaughtering 10 camels.
> 
> From a specially raised dais, speakers praised the young rebel fighters late into the evening.  Hundreds of excited young women and girls in head scarves mingled near rifle-toting young men, a novelty in this conservative country that was overwhelming to members of both genders in the crowd that night. "It's like a wedding!" Faqiar exclaimed, shaking his head in surprise.
> 
> Relations between Libyan men and women -- deeply distorted by the eccentric Libyan leader's refusal to provide normal opportunities for Libya's young people -- have changed "100 percent" in the days since Qaddafi fell, the young rebel said. His comrades listening around him voiced agreement.
> 
> "Thank God," Faqiar added.
> 
> Nearby, young women -- a group of cousins and neighbors, clustered together, in long skirts and shirts and head coverings -- said the same, and laughed about taking their pick of a husband from among the rebels when the war was done.



Libya


----------



## alexa

High_Gravity said:


> alexa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah I bet Gaddafi wishes he did go to Zimbabwe, I know Uganda offered to take him as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimbabwe is where they think he might be headed.
> 
> 
> BBC News - Libya: Gaddafi son Saif al-Islam in contact with ICC
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would do it, I would do anything I could to avoid being handed over to the Libyans.
Click to expand...


Well the ICC has confirmed now that they have been talking to him



> The International Crimal Court (ICC) has confirmed that informal contact has been made with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the fugitive son of former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, in order to arrest him and bring him to trial.
> 
> The ICC charged Gaddafi, Saif al-Islam and Abdullah al-Senussi, Libya's former intelligence chief, with crimes against humanity for the bombing and shooting of civilian protesters in February.
> 
> "If we reach agreement, logistical measures for his [Saif's] transfer will be taken," said Fadi El Abdallah, ICC spokesman, on Friday.
> 
> "It is not possible to discuss logistics or make presumptions about what is needed at this stage. There are different scenarios depending on what country he is in."
> 
> *Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from Tripoli, said officials in Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) were "not happy" about the contact between Gaddafi's most prominent son and the ICC.
> 
> "They [the NTC] say he has to face trial here in Tripoli, not at the ICC. They insist Saif al-Islam be tried [by Libyans] without the intermediation of a third party," Ahelbarra said*
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Helly questioned whether Saif was "desperately trying to save his life" or whether his offer to surrender was a way of buying time or bargaining to improve his situation..



ICC in talks with Gaddafi's fugitive son - Africa - Al Jazeera English

Still unsure which way he is going to go, Zimbabwe or the Hague, but one route he does not want to travel at this time is Libya!


----------



## alexa

> (Reuters) - The International Criminal Court said on Saturday Saif al-Islam Gaddafi was in contact through intermediaries about surrendering for trial, but it also had information mercenaries were trying to spirit him to a friendly African nation.
> 
> The ICC has warned the 39-year-old, apparently anxious not to be captured by Libyan interim government forces in whose hands his father Muammar Gaddafi was killed last week, that it could order a mid-air interception if he tried to flee by plane from his Sahara desert hideout for a safe haven.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> 
> DESERT FRIENDS
> 
> However, surrender is only one option. The Gaddafis made friends with desert tribes in Niger, Mali and other poor former French colonies in West Africa, as well as farther afield in countries like Zimbabwe and Sudan, some of them also recipients of largesse during the 42-year rule of Muammar Gaddafi, a self-styled African "king of kings."
> 
> -snip-
> 
> WARM WELCOME
> 
> Niger's government in the capital Niamey has vowed to meet its ICC commitments. But 750 km (400 miles) north in a region where cross-border allegiances among Tuareg nomads often outweigh national ties, the picture looks different.
> 
> For now, some of the tens of thousands of people who eke out a living in the deepest Sahara, an expanse roamed by smugglers and nomadic herders, say there would be a welcome for the younger Gaddafi.
> 
> "We are ready to hide him wherever needed," said Mouddour Barka, a resident of Agadez in northern Niger. "We are telling the international community to stay out of this business and our own authorities not to hand him over -- otherwise we are ready to go out on to the streets and they will have us to deal with."
> 
> Mohamed Anako, president of Agadez region, the size of France, said: "I am ready to welcome him in. For me his case is quite simply a humanitarian one.
> 
> "Libya and Niger are brother countries and cousins ... so we will welcome him in."



ICC warns Libya's Saif al-Islam against fleeing | Reuters


----------



## alexa

The NTC are getting well fed up at this idea of Saif giving himself up to the ICC.  They want him tried in Libya. This article is suggesting with Nato leaving it will be extremely difficult for Libyans to find him, if he is indeed still in the area they say.

One thing I find weird. Time and again the NTC said they knew where the family were because of phones - you would think they would have had the sense/ability to hide their trail there!!

Also in the article



> *Meanwhile, at the scene of the initial February uprising, the courthouse on Benghazi's foreshore, a black flag identical to that used by al-Qaida was recently raised next to the new Libyan flag. It continued to fly on Saturday, despite the concerns of some residents*.



Libya insists Saif al-Islam Gaddafi should be tried at home | World news | The Observer


----------



## High_Gravity

Abdul Rahim El-Keeb, New Libya Prime Minister, Balances Demands Of Rebels And West 








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- A U.S.-educated engineering professor with little political experience is Libya's new prime minister, a choice that suggests the country's interim rulers may be trying to find a government leader palatable both to the West and to Libyans who distrust anyone connected to the former regime.
> 
> Abdurrahim el-Keib was chosen late Monday by Libya's National Transitional Council, with 26 of 51 votes. He is to appoint within two weeks a new interim government that will pave the way for the drafting of a constitution, as well as general elections.
> 
> He replaces outgoing interim Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril, who had pledged to step down after victory over Moammar Gadhafi's regime
> 
> Jibril was increasingly embattled in his last months in office, attacked by Libya's Islamists as too secular, and by others as a former Gadhafi regime adviser who spent most of the country's 8-month civil war outside Libya while revolutionary forces were fighting Gadhafi's troops on the battlefield.
> 
> Jibril has won credit, however, for his role in helping secure international support for the revolution from Western powers, such as France and Britain, who led the push to give the uprising the NATO air support that played a key role in Gadhafi's defeat.
> 
> The previous interim government was an impromptu group of activists and former regime officials who defected after the uprising against Gadhafi erupted in mid-February.
> 
> The NTC appointed an "Executive Office" that served as a de facto Cabinet. Even before the fall of the Gadhafi regime, the NTC said that after the end of the war, a more carefully selected government would oversee the upcoming eight-month transition period.
> 
> El-Keib, an NTC member from Tripoli, is free of some of Mahmoud Jibril's main liabilities. Unlike Jibril, who was an economic advisor under the former regime, el-Keib spent most of his professional career outside Libya and appears untainted by any ties to Gadhafi.
> 
> His background might make him more palatable to rebel commanders whose hatred for Gadhafi is far more visceral than those of most NTC members, who like el-Keib are disproportionately returned exiles and who tend to be lawyers and academics.
> 
> Mohammed al-Harizi, an NTC member from Tripoli, welcomed el-Keib selection, and said he, unlike Jibril, spent the war in Libya and "knows what is happening on the ground."
> 
> "He has been around long enough to know what needs to be improved, unlike Mahmoud Jibril who only comes to Libya as a visitor and never stays for long," al-Harizi said.
> 
> El-Keib could also appeal to the West, at a time when some of the gloss has come off of Libya's revolution due to reports of alleged human rights abuses by revolutionary militias and by the videotaped abuse of a captured Gadhafi before his death.
> 
> Pledges by NTC chairman Mustafa Abdul-Jalil to Islamicize Libyan laws have also raised concerns in the West.



Abdul Rahim El-Keeb, New Libya Prime Minister, Balances Demands Of Rebels And West


----------



## Ropey

I can only hope that these tribes are able to work in a partnership that does not extend to dissolving it and killing each other in order to be the Muslim tribe that is Subservient to Allah whilst all other Muslim tribes (in Libya) are subservient to them.  

That's their book.  It follows.

Every 20 - 40 years? Lather, rinse and repeat.


----------



## High_Gravity

Western Companies See Prospects for Business in Libya








> WASHINGTON  The guns in Libya have barely quieted, and NATOs military assistance to the rebellion that toppled Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi will not end officially until Monday. But a new invasion force is already plotting its own landing on the shores of Tripoli.
> 
> Western security, construction and infrastructure companies that see profit-making opportunities receding in Iraq and Afghanistan have turned their sights on Libya, now free of four decades of dictatorship. Entrepreneurs are abuzz about the business potential of a country with huge needs and the oil to pay for them, plus the competitive advantage of Libyan gratitude toward the United States and its NATO partners.
> 
> A week before Colonel Qaddafis death on Oct. 20, a delegation from 80 French companies arrived in Tripoli to meet officials of the Transitional National Council, the interim government. Last week, the new British defense minister, Philip Hammond, urged British companies to pack their suitcases and head to Tripoli.
> 
> When Colonel Qaddafis body was still on public display, a British venture, Trango Special Projects, pitched its support services to companies looking to cash in. Whilst speculation continues regarding Qaddafis killing, Trango said on its Web site, are you and your business ready to return to Libya?
> 
> The company offered rooms at its Tripoli villa and transport by our discreet mixed British and Libyan security team. Its discretion does not come cheaply. The price for a 10-minute ride from the airport, for which the ordinary cab fare is about $5, is listed at 500 British pounds, or about $800.
> 
> There is a gold rush of sorts taking place right now, said David Hamod, president and chief executive officer of the National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce. And the Europeans and Asians are way ahead of us. Im getting calls daily from members of the business community in Libya. They say, Come back, we dont want the Americans to lose out. 
> 
> Yet there is hesitancy on both sides, and so far the talk greatly exceeds the action. The Transitional National Council, hoping to avoid any echo of the rank corruption of the Qaddafi era, has said no long-term contracts will be signed until an elected government is in place. And with cities still bristling with arms and jobless young men, Libya does not offer anything like a safe business environment  hence the pitches from security providers.
> 
> Like France and Britain, the United States may benefit from the Libyan authorities appreciation of NATOs critical air support for the revolution. Whatever the rigor of new rules governing contracts, Western companies hope to have some advantage over, say, China, which was offering to sell arms to Colonel Qaddafi as recently as July.
> 
> Revenge may be too strong a word, said Phil Dwyer, director of SCN Resources Group, a Virginia contracting company that opened an office in Tripoli two weeks ago to offer risk management advice and services to a company he would not name. But my feeling is those who are in favor with the transitional council are going to get the nod from a business point of view.
> 
> The Security Contracting Network, a job service run by Mr. Dwyers company, posted on its blog two days after Colonel Qaddafis death that there would be plenty of work opening up in Libya.
> 
> There will be an uptick of activity as foreign oil companies scramble to get back to Libya, the company said, along with a need for logistics and security personnel as the State Department and nonprofit organizations expand operations. Keep an eye on who wins related contracts, follow the money, and find your next job, the post advised.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/29/w...ripe-at-last-for-business.html?ref=middleeast


----------



## High_Gravity

Ban Ki-Moon, UN Secretary General, Urges Libya To Secure Gaddafi's Weapons 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Wednesday urged Libya's new leaders to quickly secure chemical weapons, nuclear materials and shoulder-fired missiles, some of which have been left unguarded during the eight-month civil war that toppled the Moammar Gadhafi's regime.
> 
> Ban said he was encouraged by a pledge from Libya's interim leader, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, to protect the weapons sites. But unsecured stockpiles of missiles and other munitions were still being discovered as recently as late last month, fueling concerns that weapons could fall into the wrong hands.
> 
> Abdul-Jalil said Libya wants the international community to release more of the billions of dollars in Libyan assets frozen during the war to get the job done. "We have many suggestions on how to locate and control these weapons," he told reporters at a joint news conference with Ban. "However, lack of funds prevents us from doing much at this time."
> 
> Earlier this week, Libyan officials said they found two undeclared chemical weapons sites, along with 7,000 drums of raw uranium. Libya under Gadhafi had pledged nearly a decade ago to stop pursuing non-conventional weapons.
> 
> Inspectors from the Organization for the Protection of Chemical Weapons were arriving in Libya on Wednesday.
> 
> During Libya's civil war, many military sites were left unguarded because of the conflict, exposing them to looting.
> 
> Earlier this week, the U.N. Security Council expressed concern about the weapons, including the fate of thousands of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles that pose a risk to civil aviation. An unknown number of missiles have disappeared and a senior Libyan border official has reported brisk weapons smuggling from Libya to Egypt.
> 
> The Security Council urged Libya to prevent such weapons from reaching terrorists and other armed groups. It also called on Libyan authorities to destroy chemical weapons stockpiles in coordination with international authorities.
> 
> Ban said he raised the weapons issue with Abdul-Jalil repeatedly, including on Wednesday. "It is very important that all these materials should be very carefully ... secured," Ban said.
> 
> The U.N. has said it is ready to help Libya in its transition to democracy, including police training, preparations for elections and the drafting of a constitution.
> 
> "We are here to help," Ban said, praising Libyans for their courage and determination in ousting Gadhafi.
> 
> The U.N. chief also reiterated his concern about the bloodshed in Syria, where President Bashar Assad has overseen a brutal crackdown on anti-government protesters.



Ban Ki-Moon, UN Secretary General, Urges Libya To Secure Gaddafi's Weapons


----------



## High_Gravity

Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi Whereabouts Remain Mystery 








> JOHANNESBURG  A fugitive wanted by the International Criminal Court, Moammar Gadhafi's one-time heir apparent appears to have disappeared in the Sahara Desert's ocean of dunes and could remain hidden for months in an area more than twice the size of Texas.
> 
> Seif al-Islam Gadhafi may be plotting a counterrevolution, scheming about a getaway to a friendly country, or negotiating a surrender to the ICC. Nothing has been heard of him since sources on Oct. 28 said Tuareg nomads were escorting him the length of Libya and that he was close to the Mali border.
> 
> "My latest information is that they are not in Mali and they are not in Niger yet either," Malian legislator Ibrahim Ag Mohamed Assaleh said this week, adding to the mystery of his whereabouts.
> 
> Gadhafi, a 39-year-old British-educated engineer, could be deliberately feeding disinformation from a desert where national boundaries are unmarked and unpoliced and where smugglers and al-Qaida gunmen roam freely.
> 
> Analyst Adam Thiam, a columnist for Le Republicain newspaper in Mali, said life in the desert for long periods outside of isolated oases is nearly impossible, but that a zone in Mali has water, livestock and small game. However the area is used by al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, an extremist group which has "no love of the Gadhafi family," Thiam said. Gadhafi violently repressed Libya's own Islamist movement and was a longtime enemy of al-Qaida.
> 
> Gadhafi and his late father's former chief of military intelligence, Abdullah al-Senoussi, have reportedly been traveling in separate convoys escorted by Tuaregs, the hardy nomads who understand best how to survive in the desert. Loyalty to the ethnic group trumps nationality, and the Tuareg's traditional stomping grounds stretch across North Africa, from Morocco and Algeria to Libya and southwest to Niger, Mali, Burkina Faso and Chad.
> 
> Gadhafi and al-Senoussi are both wanted by the ICC for allegedly organizing and ordering attacks in Libya that killed civilians during the revolt against Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> More than a dozen countries in Africa don't recognize the international court, but even some that do ignore its arrest warrants amid criticism that the Hague-based court goes after a disproportionate number of Africans. Sudanese leader Omar al-Bashir, wanted for genocide and war crimes committed in Darfur, attended a conference in Malawi last month with no problem, though Malawi is a member of the ICC.
> 
> In the area where Gadhafi is believed hiding, only Algeria is not a signatory. Algeria was a staunch supporter of Moammar Gadhafi and has given refuge to his wife, a daughter and two other sons, but now is trying to establish ties with Libya's new leaders.
> 
> Gadhafi is "more problematic than the rest of the family for Algeria," said Libya's ambassador to South Africa, Abdalla Alzubedi.
> 
> He said he has no independent information about Gadhafi but said he does believe media reports that his convoy is carrying gold, diamonds and cash  which could be his passport to freedom.
> 
> "I don't doubt that they have a lot of money," Alzubedi said. "They treated Libya like a private estate and their private bank. They could take any amount of money, any amount of gold."
> 
> South Africa's Beeld newspaper has quoted local mercenaries as saying a group of guns for hire is protecting Gadhafi. ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo has said South African mercenaries may be trying to spirit Gadhafi away to Zimbabwe, which does not recognize the international court.
> 
> Some fear Gadhafi could rally Tuareg fighters, newly and heavily rearmed while they fought to defend his father's regime, to stage an insurgency. Thiam said up to 500 Tuaregs in 130 vehicles had fled Libya to northern Mali after the fall of Moammar Gadhafi's 42-year-old regime. Hundreds of other Tuareg fighters have gone home to Chad and Niger.
> 
> Many Tuaregs are furious about how Gadhafi was captured and killed. Mosques in Tuareg towns across the Sahel dedicated last Friday's prayers to the memory of the slain Libyan leader, who used some of Libya's oil wealth to build mosques and religious schools across the region and who glorified the tribes' nomadic lifestyle.
> 
> A Western diplomat said Wednesday that he has information suggesting al-Senoussi crossed into northern Mali this week, though he cautioned that "a man like this could create false leads for people to follow." A Tuareg source said al-Senoussi was in northwest Mali on Monday.
> 
> On Oct. 28, a Tuareg leader said Gadhafi was nearing the Mali border and could cross into the country that night. These sources spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.



Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi Whereabouts Remain Mystery


----------



## Conservative

But doe he have nukes?


----------



## High_Gravity

Conservative said:


> But doe he have nukes?



According to Little Red yes.


----------



## idb

High_Gravity said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> 
> But doe he have nukes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Little Red yes.
Click to expand...


This reminds me of the end of "Blazing Saddles" when the big fight scene spills over from that movie and into other sets.


----------



## High_Gravity

idb said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> 
> But doe he have nukes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Little Red yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This reminds me of the end of "Blazing Saddles" when the big fight scene spills over from that movie and into other sets.
Click to expand...


Well it wasn't a "fight" exactly, little red was getting his ass beat like a red headed step child up and down that thread.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Disarming Rebels Will Take Months, Prime Minister El-Keib Says








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Disarming former Libyan rebels could take months and weapons will not be taken by force, Libya's new prime minister said in an interview broadcast Friday, signaling a shift from previous pledges of quick action.
> 
> Abdurrahim el-Keib also acknowledged that the National Transitional Council, which is to lead Libya to its first free election within eight months, has not yet established full control over the country, but said it is making progress. The NTC declared Libya liberated on Oct. 23, three days after the capture and killing of dictator Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> The proliferation of armed ex-rebel militias in Libya and the NTC's still shaky grip have raised concerns about growing instability during the transition period, which is to end with the election of a national assembly by June.
> 
> Thousands of civilians across Libya took up arms during the eight-month war that brought down Gadhafi. Some have returned to their pre-war lives, but others have remained in their fighting units, manning checkpoints and patrolling streets. In recent weeks, there have been reports of fighters using weapons to settle personal scores.
> 
> El-Keib, who will run the interim government for the next eight months, told France24 TV on Friday that collecting those weapons "is going to take some time."
> 
> "We will not force people to take quick and hasty decisions and actions and come up with some laws that just prevent people from holding arms," he said. Instead, the government will try to work with the fighters, by offering alternatives, including training and jobs, he said.
> 
> "Hopefully, before the eight months end, we will be able to have those armed freedom fighters lay down their arms and go back to their business," he added.
> 
> The NTC is to adopt a "transitional justice" law in coming days to help it deal with some of the problems of the interim period, including vigilante justice carried out by fighters against former supporters of the Gadhafi regime.
> 
> "Most of the violations are taking place because we don't have laws to carry out justice," said Jalal el-Gallal, an NTC spokesman. "That's why we need it (the law) as soon as possible."
> 
> According to a draft of the law, an independent fact-finding commission would be set up to hear complaints by victims of injustice, both under Gadhafi and in the transitional period. The commission would investigate the claims and make recommendations, including possible compensation or referral to the courts.
> 
> The head of the NTC, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, said earlier this week that Libya's interim leaders also need quick access to billions of dollars in Gadhafi regime assets, frozen by a number of countries since the start of the war, to be able to disarm fighters and secure weapons.
> 
> Citing lack of funds, Abdul-Jalil said his government can't do much in the interim period to secure weapons sites and munitions depots that were left unguarded and exposed to looting during the war. Libyan border officials have reported heavy weapons smuggling into Egypt, and Israel has said some of those arms have reached the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.
> 
> Earlier this week, Libyan officials said they discovered chemical weapons that had previously not been declared by the Gadhafi regime when it pledged to abandon the pursuit of non-conventional weapons.
> 
> In the Netherlands, the organization that oversees the global ban on chemical weapons said it will work with Libyan authorities to verify and destroy chemical weapons. The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons said it was told earlier this week of suspected chemical weapons caches beyond the stockpiles declared earlier by Gadhafi.
> 
> The organization said Friday that none of Gadhafi's known chemical arsenal was plundered during the civil war. Libya declared in 2004 it had tons of sulfur mustard and other chemicals used to make chemical weapons.
> 
> New details emerged Friday about the toll of the fighting in Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte last month.
> 
> The International Committee of the Red Cross said more than 400 bodies have been found in Sirte in the past two weeks. Gadhafi died in unclear circumstances Oct. 20 after being captured by ex-rebel forces in Sirte.



Libya: Disarming Rebels Will Take Months, Prime Minister El-Keib Says


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Missing Weapons Unsecured, UN Envoy Says 








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Some weapons depots in Libya have still not been secured properly, and "much has already gone missing" from unguarded sites, the top U.N. envoy in Libya said in an interview Sunday.
> 
> Preventing more weapons from being smuggled out of country will be difficult, considering the nature of the vast desert nation's borders, the envoy, Ian Martin, told The Associated Press.
> 
> "That has to be a priority now, to secure what still remains in Libya," he said. "Over time, the international community can assist Libya and its neighbors with that, but I am afraid there is not a quick and easy solution to that problem."
> 
> During the chaos of Libya's 8-month civil war, human rights groups and reporters came across a number of weapons depots that were left unguarded and were looted after Moammar Gadhafi's fighters fled.
> 
> Martin said the unsecured weapons remain a "very, very serious cause for concern." He said they include shoulder-held missiles, mines and ammunition.
> 
> "It's clear that much has already gone missing from unsecured locations and that there are still locations which have not been properly secured," he said.
> 
> Martin noted progress concerning chemical weapons and nuclear material. Last week, Libyan officials said they discovered two new sites with chemical weapons that had not been declared by the Gadhafi regime when it vowed several years ago to stop pursuing non-conventional weapons. Officials also said they found about 7,000 drums of raw uranium.
> 
> "That, too, has been secured," Martin said of the latest discoveries, noting that the main issue is now how to dispose of them.
> 
> The Gadhafi regime fell with the capture and killing of the dictator on Oct. 20, followed by a declaration of liberation by Libya's new leadership three days later.
> 
> The U.N. mission headed by Martin is designed to help Libya's interim leaders with the transition to democracy.
> 
> By late June, Libyans are scheduled to elect a national assembly that would oversee the drafting of a constitution, followed by parliamentary and presidential elections.
> 
> The National Transitional Council last week chose a new prime minister, who is to form a government by mid-month for the transition period.
> 
> The prime minister, Abdurrahim el-Keib, said in a televised speech marking the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha that Libya must quickly form new security forces. He added that "the presence of weapons in this random manner really concerns us."
> 
> El-Keib also said national reconciliation is a priority. This would include compensating those who were hurt in the fighting and punishing the guilty, he said.
> 
> Some Libyan officials have called for a faster transition, warning of a dangerous power vacuum.
> 
> Martin said accelerating the elections timetable "is going to be quite difficult, but depends first and foremost on the speed with which they (Libya's interim leaders) can reach the political decisions, and we can't determine that."
> 
> Fundamental decisions, including on the preferred electoral system, have not yet been made, he said.
> 
> The NTC has acknowledged that it has not established full control over the country. Suspected Gadhafi loyalists are being held in detention centers controlled by semiautonomous armed militias, instead of the NTC. Human rights groups have reported mistreatment of detainees in such lockups.
> 
> Martin said the interim authorities have tried to tackle the problem, "but they need to do more, faster, even before a new government is in place."



Libya: Missing Weapons Unsecured, UN Envoy Says


----------



## High_Gravity

Niger Military Clashes With Libya Convoy 








> NIAMEY, Niger  Niger's army intercepted a convoy of cars traveling south from Libya toward Mali, and a cache of arms was seized in the ensuing clash, the ministry of defense said Wednesday.
> 
> It was not immediately clear if the fighters were part of Moammar Gadhafi's fleeing entourage, but the direction in which the heavily armed convoy was traveling is the same route that was used last month by Gadhafi's intelligence chief, who is believed to be hiding in the remote dunes of Mali.
> 
> The statement by Defense Minister Mahamadou Karidio published in local newspapers on Wednesday said that one Nigerien soldier was killed and four wounded during the clash on Sunday.
> 
> The army seized two 14.5 mm, and four 12.7 mm machine guns, two ML-49 and three M-80 machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, and ammunition, the statement said. The army also found a Thuraya satellite phone and seized six Toyota pickup trucks, as well as several prisoners.
> 
> Security experts have warned that arms traffickers could try to pilfer the armories left behind by Gadhafi's retreating army and transport them across the ungoverned desert separating Libya from Niger and Mali. The corridor has been used by arms smugglers and drug traffickers for decades, and is also where an al-Qaida-linked cell operates. Military experts are especially worried about Gadhafi's stockpile of surface-to-air missiles, many of which have an infrared homing device which would allow a fighter to simply aim it in the general direction of a passing plane to take it down.
> 
> Earlier this summer, the Niger military clashed with another convoy in the same region, this one loaded with explosives. One of the men driving the convoy told authorities during his subsequent interrogation that they were bringing the explosives from Libya, and were on their way to sell it to al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, or AQIM, Karidio told the Associated Press in an interview in September.
> 
> Serge Hilpron, the head of Radio Nomad, a radio station that broadcast in the country's north where the incident took place, said that his sources indicated that there were both Libyan nationals and ethnic Tuaregs in the convoy.



Niger Military Clashes With Libya Convoy


----------



## High_Gravity

Mustafa Abdul Jalil, Libya Interim Leader, Says No Place For Extremist Islam 









> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libya won't turn into an extremist Islamic country, its interim leader assured the European Union's top diplomat on Saturday, adding that the formation of a new government of experts is to be completed in the coming week.
> 
> Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, chairman of the National Transitional Council, caused a stir in the West last month when he said Islamic Shariah law would be the main source of legislation in the new Libya and that tenets violating it would be nullified.
> 
> At a news conference with EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, he addressed those concerns. "We will not be an extremist Islamic country," he said. "Our Islam is moderate."
> 
> Other NTC members have said Abdul-Jalil had expressed his personal views on the role of Shariah law. They noted that a constitution, which would address the role of religion in Libya, will only be written next year.
> 
> Ashton told a women's conference in Tripoli that Libya's women should make sure their rights are enshrined in the future constitution, calling for gender-equality in the male-dominated country.
> 
> "The European Union wants to be with you on this journey, to try and help overcome the political and social barriers, to help ensure your role in shaping your future," Ashton said.
> 
> Abdul-Jalil said women would play a role in Libyan politics and business and that they would be represented in the interim government that is now being formed and will run Libya until a national assembly is elected by June. He said the 63-member NTC has four female members, citing it as an example of the political participation of women.
> 
> The recently appointed prime minister, Abdurrahim el-Keib, is to present the list of names of the new ministers to the NTC in the coming week, Abdul-Jalil said Saturday.
> 
> Ministers would be chosen based on expertise, not tribal considerations, he said.
> 
> The NTC chief was evasive when asked about growing concerns about the uncontrolled ownership of weapons. Since the end of the eight-month civil war that toppled the Gadhafi regime, rival anti-Gadhafi militias have clashed repeatedly.
> 
> On Saturday, two former fighters from the coastal city of Zawiya, some 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli, were killed in a clash with a rival militia from a nearby town, said Mukhtar al-Akhdar, commander of an armed group that was not involved in the confrontation. Saturday's deaths brought to four the number of people killed in the dispute over the past two days. The fighting was the latest of a series of violent confrontations between militias jockeying for position.
> 
> El-Keib, the prime minister, has said he could not disarm fighters until he has prepared alternatives, including jobs and training. Abdul-Jalil seemed to affirm the slow approach Saturday, noting that 75 percent of those carrying weapons are unemployed. "We will provide real opportunities of employment. We will support them," he said.
> 
> Ashton opened an EU office in Tripoli and said her visit was meant to show support for the post-Gadhafi Libya. "We hope to be here for many years as your partner," she told Abdul-Jalil.



Mustafa Abdul Jalil, Libya Interim Leader, Says No Place For Extremist Islam


----------



## High_Gravity

Gaddafi Viagra: Former Libyan Leader Loved ED Pill, Would Have Sex With Multiple Women, Report Claims 








> In addition to having a penchant for Condoleezza Rice, his crew of female bodyguards and his Ukrainian nurse, it turns out that Muammar Gaddafi also had a thing for Viagra.
> 
> According to The Sunday Times, Faisal, a 29-year-old who served as the leader's chef and servant for seven years (he applied the dictator's makeup and dyed his hair), said that Gaddafi took so many of the little blue pills that a nurse once warned him that he needed to take it down a notch.
> 
> All of this Viagra was apparently necessary for his voracious sexual appetite.
> 
> From The Sunday Times, via The Australian:
> 
> "There were four or sometimes five women each day," Faisal said. "There were so many. They had just become a habit to Gaddafi. They would go into his bedroom, he would have his way with them and then he would come out, like he had just blown his nose."
> Gaddafi, who was killed last month near his hometown of Sirte, reportedly hired Faisal after the dictator spoke at Tripoli University, where the young man was studying law, The Australian reports.
> 
> In April, the U.S. envoy to the United Nations said that some Gaddafi loyalists had been given Viagra to assist in the raping of women for punishment, according to Reuters. The Associated Press said in June that the office of the chief prosector for the International Criminal Court launched an investigation into the report.
> 
> After Gaddafi was deposed from office in August 2011, several of his former bodyguards came forward with allegations of sexual assault. Some of the women alleged that they had been raped by as many as 20 men.



Gaddafi Viagra: Former Libyan Leader Loved ED Pill, Would Have Sex With Multiple Women, Report Claims


----------



## alexa

Well we know one thing, the West did not get involved to save civilians



> That has followed a two month-long siege and indiscriminate bombardment of a city of 100,000 which has been reduced to a Grozny-like state of destruction by newly triumphant rebel troops with Nato air and special-forces support.
> 
> And these massacre sites are only the latest of many such discoveries. Amnesty International has now produced compendious evidence of mass abduction and detention, beating and routine torture, killings and atrocities by the rebel militias Britain, France and the US have backed for the last eight months &#8211; supposedly to stop exactly those kind of crimes being committed by the Gaddafi regime.
> 
> Throughout that time African migrants and black Libyans have been subject to a relentless racist campaign of mass detention, lynchings and atrocities on the usually unfounded basis that they have been loyalist mercenaries. Such attacks continue, says Bouckaert, who witnessed militias from Misrata this week burning homes in Tawerga so that the town's predominantly black population &#8211; accused of backing Gaddafi &#8211; will be unable to return.



If the Libyan war was about saving lives, it was a catastrophic failure | Seumas Milne | Comment is free | The Guardian

The ICC is not just looking at the crimes of pro Gaddafi's but of NATO and the NTC

ICC to investigate NATO and NTC crimes in Libya « compliancecampaign

so let's get to what this was about M O N E Y as usual.  Massive oil deal for France and the UK which paid £300m on the campaign is likely to make £500b on reconstruction - not a bad deal, I would say.

However this article from AlJazzera may just have hit the nail on the head



> The Occupy Wall Street movement has now spread throughout the United States, sometimes in the face of serious acts of repression, as in Oakland, California. It has followed in the spirit of the Arab and European movements in demanding an end to special privileges for the richest one per cent, including their ability to more or less buy the US government for purposes of their choosing. *What is often forgotten is that the Ben Alis, Mubaraks and Gaddafis were not simply authoritarian tyrants. They were the one per cent and the guardians of the one per cent, in their own societies - and loathed for exactly that.*


*
*
How neoliberalism created an age of activism - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

You never know the people may end up getting the last laugh in the end after all.


----------



## High_Gravity

Abdullah Al-Senussi, Gaddafi Intelligence Chief, Reportedly Held In Secret Location 








> ZINTAN, Libya -- Moammar Gadhafi's captured intelligence chief is being held at a highly secret location deep in Libya's southern desert because of possible threats to his life, a government spokesman said Monday.
> 
> Abdullah al-Senoussi, who is wanted by the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands and by France, is being held in the city of Sabha by revolutionary fighters who captured him on Sunday, said Hmeid al-Etabi, a local spokesman for Libya's new leadership. But the prisoner's precise location must be kept secret, he said.
> 
> "The revolutionaries have created a total media blackout on his whereabouts because so many people want him dead," al-Etabi told The Associated Press.
> 
> Fighters from another faction in Libya's western mountains are holding the other high-level detainee captured over the weekend, Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam, whose convoy was swarmed by militiamen in the southern desert on Saturday. They are also keeping him in a secret location and refusing to hand him over to national authorities in Tripoli.
> 
> The inability of the National Transitional Council to have either detainee brought to the capital has added to doubts about its control over the fractured country after the fall of Gadhafi's 42-year rule in August and his capture and death last month.
> 
> Seif al-Islam and al-Senoussi are both wanted by the International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands, on charges of crimes against humanity for the brutal crackdown on dissent as the uprising against the regime began in mid-February and escalated into a civil war.
> 
> Libyan authorities, however, have said they will try Seif al-Islam at home, even though they have yet to establish a judicial system. They have not said whether they might be willing to extradite al-Senoussi, who was captured to the south of the city of Sabha, 400 miles (650 kilometers) south of Tripoli.
> 
> Al-Senoussi, Gadhafi's brother-in-law, was also one of six Libyans convicted in absentia and sentenced to life in prison in France for the 1989 bombing of a French passenger over Niger that killed all 170 people on board.
> 
> The French government said Monday it wants al-Senoussi to be brought to France. French Foreign Ministry spokesman Bernard Valero said his government was in talks with "relevant jurisdictions" to ensure that he is held to account.
> 
> The prosecutor at the Netherlands-based ICC, Luis Moreno Ocampo, is to travel to Libya this week for discussions on where the trial of Seif al-Islam will be held.
> 
> The court's spokesman, Fadi El Abdallah, said Sunday that Libya would have to convincingly lay out its arguments that it will have a solid legal system capable to giving him a fair trial.
> 
> Seif al-Islam was once the face of reform in Libya and led his father's drive to emerge from pariah status over the last decade, but he staunchly backed his father in his brutal crackdown on rebels.
> 
> Al-Senoussi also helped direct efforts to quash the rebellion.
> 
> Reflecting the confusion over the two prisoners, Libya's interim prime minister, Abdurrahim el-Keib, said at a news conference Monday that he was not even 100 percent sure of al-Senoussi's capture.
> 
> "Before I confirm that to you I need to confirm for myself that he was really captured," he told reporters after meeting with the United States' ambassador to the U.N.
> 
> Ambassador Susan Rice was visiting Tripoli for talks that were expected to include the capture of the two men.
> 
> The director-general of the International Committee of the Red Cross, Yves Daccord, said the group is in talks with authorities in Libya to visit detainees including Seif al-Islam. He told reporters in Geneva that the ICRC expects to soon be able to visit him.
> 
> Seif al-Islam is being held in the small town of Zintan in Libya's western mountains by the fighters who seized him on Saturday. The fighters had tracked him for two days to the southern desert and flew him back to Zintan, 85 miles (150 kilometers) southwest of Tripoli.
> 
> On Sunday, the fighters holding Seif al-Islam posted a video of him on YouTube. In the clip, he appeared in good health and said an injury to his hand was the result of a NATO airstrike a month ago that struck his convoy in Wadi Zamzam, about 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli. He said 26 people were killed in the strike.



Abdullah Al-Senussi, Gaddafi Intelligence Chief, Reportedly Held In Secret Location


----------



## High_Gravity

Saif Al-Islam Captured In Southern Town Of Obari Close To Niger 








> Saif al-Islam, Colonel Gaddafi's son and the heir apparent, has been captured, according to officials from the National Transitional council (NTC).
> 
> Gaddafi was reportedly arrested in the town of Obari, near Sabah in the south of Libya by militia forces. Reports suggest that Saif and his colleagues were ambushed.
> 
> According to Reuters, the European Union has urged Libyan authorities to make sure Gaddafi stands trial at the international criminal Court (ICC).
> 
> The 39-year-old captive is wanted by the ICC for crimes against humanity; however the NTC has yet to confirm whether Gaddafi will be handed over to international authorities or made to stand trial in Libya.
> 
> Luis Moreno Ocampo, a prosecutor for the ICC said: "The good news is that Saif al-Islam is arrested, he is alive, and now he will face justice."
> 
> Marek Marczynski of Amnesty International also urged the NTC to transfer Gaddafi to the court in the Netherlands:
> 
> "The ICC has an arrest warrant out for him and that is the correct thing to do. He must be brought before a judge as soon as possible," he said. "It matters for the victims. What they need to see is true justice. They need to know the truth about what happened."
> 
> However, Libya's Information Minister Mahmoud Shammam reacted to Saif's capture by calling him an outlaw who "should be tried in front of the Libyan Court, by Libyan people and by Libyan justice".
> 
> 
> 
> A picture of Gaddafi apparently inured appeared on Facebook shortly after reports of his capture. Saif's fingers are believed to be bandaged from wounds sustained a month ago in an air strike.
> 
> He is expected to be transferred to the mountain town of Zintan until the NTC decide his fate. Three armed aides were captured alongside Gaddafi.
> 
> Reports suggest that the son of former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi, who is also wanted by the ICC, was part of the group arrested.
> 
> Across the desert state, Libyans took to the streets to celebrate Saif's arrest.
> 
> The news comes a month after Saif's father, Muammar Gaddafi, was caught and lynched in the town of Sirte.
> 
> Speaking to Reuters, Justice Minister Mohammed al-Alagy confirmed: "We have arrested Saif al-Islam Gaddafi in (the) Obari area."



Saif Al-Islam Captured In Southern Town Of Obari Close To Niger


----------



## High_Gravity

The Gaddafis are finished.

Saif Al-Islam, Gaddafi Son, Will Be Tried In Libya 




> ZINTAN, Libya -- Moammar Gadhafi's son and one-time heir apparent will be tried in Libya and not handed over to the International Criminal Court even though the country's new rulers have yet to set up a justice system, the information minister said on Sunday.
> 
> The Libyan people want to see Seif al-Islam Gadhafi tried at home for the crimes he committed against the Libyan people, said the minister, Mahmoud Shammam.
> 
> Al-Senoussi's capture comes a day after Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam was caught trying to flee Libya to Niger. Both men are wanted by the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands.
> 
> THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
> 
> ZINTAN, Libya (AP) - Moammar Gadhafi's son and one-time heir apparent will be tried in Libya and not handed over to the International Criminal Court even though the country's new rulers have yet to set up a justice system, the information minister said on Sunday.
> 
> The Libyan people want to see Seif al-Islam Gadhafi tried at home for the crimes he committed against the Libyan people, said the minister, Mahmoud Shammam.
> 
> Seif al-Islam, captured over the weekend, is wanted by the Netherlands-based ICC on charges of crimes against humanity.
> 
> "The ICC is just a secondary court, and the people of Libya will not allow Seif al-Islam to be tried outside," Shammam told The Associated Press on Sunday.
> 
> ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo told the AP Saturday that he will travel to Libya on Monday for talks with Libya's National Transitional Council on where the trial will take place.
> 
> Ocampo said that while national governments have the first right to try their own citizens for war crimes, his primary goal was to ensure Seif al-Islam has a fair trial.
> 
> Shammam said the NTC will discuss its decision with Ocampo during his visit.
> 
> "It will take time for the trial to happen but this is natural," he said.
> 
> Human Rights Watch called for Seif al-Islam to be promptly turned over to the International Criminal Court in a statement, citing the apparent killings in custody of his father and brother Muatassim on Oct. 20 as "particular cause for concern."
> 
> Seif al-Islam was captured in the southern Libyan desert early Saturday morning by revolutionary fighters from the town of Zintan, 85 miles (150 kilometers) southwest of Tripoli. He was flown back to Zintan where he remains in custody.



Saif Al-Islam, Gaddafi Son, Will Be Tried In Libya


----------



## JStone

alexa said:


> Well we know one thing, the West did not get involved to save civilians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That has followed a two month-long siege and indiscriminate bombardment of a city of 100,000 which has been reduced to a Grozny-like state of destruction by newly triumphant rebel troops with Nato air and special-forces support.
> 
> And these massacre sites are only the latest of many such discoveries. Amnesty International has now produced compendious evidence of mass abduction and detention, beating and routine torture, killings and atrocities by the rebel militias Britain, France and the US have backed for the last eight months  supposedly to stop exactly those kind of crimes being committed by the Gaddafi regime.
> 
> Throughout that time African migrants and black Libyans have been subject to a relentless racist campaign of mass detention, lynchings and atrocities on the usually unfounded basis that they have been loyalist mercenaries. Such attacks continue, says Bouckaert, who witnessed militias from Misrata this week burning homes in Tawerga so that the town's predominantly black population  accused of backing Gaddafi  will be unable to return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the Libyan war was about saving lives, it was a catastrophic failure | Seumas Milne | Comment is free | The Guardian
> 
> The ICC is not just looking at the crimes of pro Gaddafi's but of NATO and the NTC
> 
> ICC to investigate NATO and NTC crimes in Libya « compliancecampaign
> 
> so let's get to what this was about M O N E Y as usual.  Massive oil deal for France and the UK which paid £300m on the campaign is likely to make £500b on reconstruction - not a bad deal, I would say.
> 
> However this article from AlJazzera may just have hit the nail on the head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Occupy Wall Street movement has now spread throughout the United States, sometimes in the face of serious acts of repression, as in Oakland, California. It has followed in the spirit of the Arab and European movements in demanding an end to special privileges for the richest one per cent, including their ability to more or less buy the US government for purposes of their choosing. *What is often forgotten is that the Ben Alis, Mubaraks and Gaddafis were not simply authoritarian tyrants. They were the one per cent and the guardians of the one per cent, in their own societies - and loathed for exactly that.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> *
> How neoliberalism created an age of activism - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
> 
> You never know the people may end up getting the last laugh in the end after all.
Click to expand...


How many civilians have the Rabs and Muslimes saved, dummy?

*Burak Bekdil, Hurriyet, Turkey* Why Golda Meir was right - Hurriyet Daily News


> It has been more than two and a half years since Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an told to Israeli President Shimon Peress face, You (Jews) know well how to kill. Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an has also declared more than a few times that the main obstacle to peace in this part of the world is Israel, once calling the Jewish state a festering boil in the Middle East that spreads hate and enmity. In this holy month of Ramadan full of blood on Muslim territories, lets try to identify who are the ones who know well how to kill.
> 
> As the Syrian death count clicks every day to come close to 2,000, the Turkish-Kurdish death count does not stop, already over 40,000 since 1984, both adding to the big pool of blood called the Middle East. Only during this Ramadan, the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKKs, death toll has reached 50 in this Muslim Kurds vs. Muslim Turks war. This excludes the PKK casualties in Turkey and in northern Iraq due to Turkish military retaliation since they are seldom accurately reported.
> 
> Sudan is not in the conventional Middle East, so lets ignore the genocide there. Lets ignore, also, the West Pakistani massacres in East Pakistan (Bangladesh) totaling 1.25 million in 1971. Or 200,000 deaths in Algeria in war between Islamists and the government in 1991-2006.
> 
> But a simple, strictly Middle East research will give you one million deaths in the all-Muslim Iran-Iraq war; 300,000 Muslim minorities killed by Saddam Hussein; 80,000 Iranians killed during the Islamic revolution; 25,000 deaths in 1970-71, the days of Black September, by the Jordanian government in its fight against the Palestinians; and 20,000 Islamists killed in 1982 by the elder al-Assad in Hama. The World Health Organizations estimate of Osama bin Ladens carnage in Iraq was already 150,000 a few years earlier.
> 
> In a 2007 research, Gunnar Heinsohn from the University of Bremen and Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum, found out that some 11 million Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, (0.3 percent) died during the six years of Arab war against Israel, or one out of every 315 fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.
> 
> According to Mssrs. Heinsohn and Pipes, the grisly inventory finds the total number of deaths in conflicts all over the world since 1950 numbering around 85 million. Of that, the Muslim Arab deaths in the Arab-Israeli conflict were at 46,000 including 11,000 during Israels war of independence. That makes 0.05 percent of all deaths in all conflicts, or 0.4 percent of all Arab deaths in the Arab-Israeli conflict.
> 
> In another calculation ignoring small massacres like the one that goes on in Syria and other deaths during the Arab Spring, only Saddams Iraq, Jordan, the elder al-Assads Syria, Iran-Iraq war, the bin Laden campaign in Iraq, the Iranian Islamic revolution and the Turkish-Kurdish conflict caused 1.65 million Muslim deaths by Muslims compared to less than 50,000 deaths in the Arab-Israeli conflict since 1950, including fatalities during and after Operation Cast Lead which came after the Heinsohn-Pipes study. For those who dont have a calculator ready at their desks, allow me to tell: 50,000 is three percent of 1.65 million.
> 
> Golda Meir, the fourth prime minister of Israel, or rather the Mother of Israel, had a perfectly realistic point when she said that peace in the Middle East would only be possible when Arabs love their children more than they hate us.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Libya's new leaders said Tuesday that some prisoners held by revolutionary forces have been abused, but insisted the mistreatment was not systematic and pledged to tackle the problem.
> 
> The acknowledgment comes a day after the U.N. released a report a detailing alleged torture and ill treatment in lockups controlled by the forces that overthrew dictator Moammar Gadhafi. The report says that Libyan revolutionaries still hold about 7,000 people, many of them sub-Saharan Africans who are in some cases accused or suspected of being mercenaries hired by Gadhafi.
> 
> Libya's new leaders, who received the backing of the U.S., France, Britain and other countries in their fight against Gadhafi, are eager to assure the world of their commitment to democracy and human rights. Interior Minister Fawzy Abdul-Ali acknowledged that abuses have occurred but said the new government is trying to eliminate them.
> 
> "We are trying our best to establish a legitimate system that is authorized to make arrests, detain and interrogate people," he told The Associated Press. "We are trying to minimize the possibilities of violations taking place."
> 
> Abdul-Ali said the government plans to create special security units under the authority of the central government that will handle prisoners. Leaders are working to bolster "the authority of the new government all across the country," he said.
> 
> Responding to the U.N. report, Deputy Prime Minister Mustafa Abushagur also acknowledged there are problems with detainees.
> 
> "Are there illegal detentions in Libya? I am afraid there are," Abushagur told a news conference. He said any abuses have been committed by militias not yet controlled by central authorities.
> 
> Libya's new leaders have struggled to stamp their authority on the country since toppling Gadhafi's regime. One of the greatest challenges still facing the leadership is how to rein in the dozens of revolutionary militias that arose during the war and now are reluctant to disband or submit to central authority.
> 
> Abushagur also denied some news reports claiming that Libyan leaders are arming rebels in Syria.
> 
> "We are with the Syrian people but we are not going to send fighters or arms," he said.
> 
> Also Tuesday, dozens of people with relatives who went missing in Libya's recent civil war rallied in front of the main government building to demand that authorities speed up the search for their loved ones.
> 
> Most of the missing were fighters, but there are also civilians among them. There are an estimated 20,000 people missing, according to the prosecutor for the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno-Ocampo.



Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged



Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged



Ropey said:


> I can only hope that these tribes are able to work in a partnership that does not extend to dissolving it and killing each other in order to be the Muslim tribe that is Subservient to Allah whilst all other Muslim tribes (in Libya) are subservient to them.
> 
> That's their book.  It follows.
> 
> Every 20 - 40 years? Lather, rinse and repeat.



Democracy? I would love to see it gain a foothold here. I see what is happening in Iraq and I doubt it though.

It's not a nice place for an optimist to view from.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only hope that these tribes are able to work in a partnership that does not extend to dissolving it and killing each other in order to be the Muslim tribe that is Subservient to Allah whilst all other Muslim tribes (in Libya) are subservient to them.
> 
> That's their book.  It follows.
> 
> Every 20 - 40 years? Lather, rinse and repeat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Democracy? I would love to see it gain a foothold here. I see what is happening in Iraq and I doubt it though.
> 
> It's not a nice place for an optimist to view from.
Click to expand...


You can't really have demoracy when Shariah Law is what you based your constitution on, at this point all I'm hoping for is a nation that is semi friendly towards the west that stays away from terrorism, thats it.


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only hope that these tribes are able to work in a partnership that does not extend to dissolving it and killing each other in order to be the Muslim tribe that is Subservient to Allah whilst all other Muslim tribes (in Libya) are subservient to them.
> 
> That's their book.  It follows.
> 
> Every 20 - 40 years? Lather, rinse and repeat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Democracy? I would love to see it gain a foothold here. I see what is happening in Iraq and I doubt it though.
> 
> It's not a nice place for an optimist to view from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't really have demoracy when Shariah Law is what you based your constitution on, at this point all I'm hoping for is a nation that is semi friendly towards the west that stays away from terrorism, thats it.
Click to expand...


I don't think either of us will get what we would hope for and my hope would be Democracy as that raises people up.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: Prisoner Abuse By Revolutionary Forces Acknowledged
> 
> 
> 
> Democracy? I would love to see it gain a foothold here. I see what is happening in Iraq and I doubt it though.
> 
> It's not a nice place for an optimist to view from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't really have demoracy when Shariah Law is what you based your constitution on, at this point all I'm hoping for is a nation that is semi friendly towards the west that stays away from terrorism, thats it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think either of us will get what we would hope for and my hope would be Democracy as that raises people up.
Click to expand...


I would love for Libya to have democracy and establish a separation between mosque and state, but that will never happen in a million years.


----------



## idb

High_Gravity said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't really have demoracy when Shariah Law is what you based your constitution on, at this point all I'm hoping for is a nation that is semi friendly towards the west that stays away from terrorism, thats it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think either of us will get what we would hope for and my hope would be Democracy as that raises people up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would love for Libya to have democracy and establish a separation between mosque and state, but that will never happen in a million years.
Click to expand...


That doesn't mean that a democratic system can't be established.
My limited knowledge of Malaysia and Indonesia is that they have Islam as their state religions but they are also democracies.


----------



## High_Gravity

idb said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think either of us will get what we would hope for and my hope would be Democracy as that raises people up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would love for Libya to have democracy and establish a separation between mosque and state, but that will never happen in a million years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean that a democratic system can't be established.
> My limited knowledge of Malaysia and Indonesia is that they have Islam as their state religions but they are also democracies.
Click to expand...


Do they have Shariah law as the basis of their constitutions?


----------



## High_Gravity

Mexico: Al Saadi Gaddafi Tried To Enter Country 



> MEXICO CITY  Mexico said Wednesday that a son of the late Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi and three relatives had plotted to sneak into Mexico under false names and take clandestine refuge at a posh Pacific coast resort.
> 
> The elaborate plan to bring al-Saadi Gadhafi to Mexico allegedly involved two Mexicans, a Canadian and a Danish suspect, all of whom have been detained, Interior Secretary Alejandro Poire said.
> 
> He did not reveal which relatives had planned to accompany Al-Saadi Gadhafi, who is known for his love of professional soccer and run-ins with police in Europe.
> 
> The plot was uncovered by Mexican intelligence agents in early September as al-Saadi was fleeing Libya shortly after his father's ouster. He never made it to Mexico, but did reach the Western African country of Niger, where he has been living.
> 
> The plotters allegedly jetted into Mexico, opened bank accounts and bought properties meant to be used as safe houses in several parts of the country, including one at a resort on Mexico's Pacific coast.
> 
> "The large economic resources which this criminal organization has, or had, allowed them to contract private flights," Poire told a news conference.
> 
> Poire said the leader of the plot was a Canadian woman he identified as Cynthia Vanier. He said she had been detained on Nov. 10 and is being held, along with three other suspects, under a form of house arrest on suspicion of using false documents, human smuggling and organized crime.
> 
> Poire said Vanier "was the direct contact with the Gadhafi family and the leader of the group, and presumably was the person in charge of the finances of the operation.
> 
> The plot also allegedly involved a Mexican woman who lived in the United States, who Poire said served as the liaison to obtain the falsified Mexican identity documents.
> 
> A Danish man was "the logistic liaison" for the plan, Poire said. He said the alleged conspirators also traveled to Kosovo "and several Middle Eastern countries."
> 
> "The activities of the criminal organization in our country included the falsification of official documents, the opening of bank accounts with false documents (and) the purchase of real estate that was intended, among other things, to serve as a residence for the Gadhafi family at a house located in the zone of the Bahia de Banderas," just north of the resort of Puerto Vallarta, Poire said.
> 
> The Mexican officials made no mention of Moammar Gadhafi himself being involved in the plan, and Poire did not say which relatives might have planned to accompany the son to Mexico. The elder Gadhafi was ousted from power in late August and was captured and killed in Libya on Oct. 20.
> 
> Gary Peters, the director of Ontario, Canada-based Can/Aust Security & Investigations International Inc., said in a telephone interview that he had worked as al-Saadi's North America security chief for several years and confirmed that Gadhafi had planned to travel to Mexico because "he was interested in buying property there in Punta Mita."
> 
> Al-Saadi had never been there before and probably read about it in a magazine, Peters said. "It's a pretty well-known place. It's a highfalutin place."
> 
> The resort features private villas, five-star hotels and a golf course. The resort's website, Puntamita.com, describes it as "an inviting seaside playground, a natural magnet for aquatic adventures. The sparkling waters, pristine beaches, coral reef and occasionally rocky coast inspire a host of delightful experiences."
> 
> Peters told The Associated Press he knew Vanier and confirmed that her role was to get travel documents for Gadhafi's son, but he said the arrangements were legitimate, as far as he knew.
> 
> "It wasn't smuggling. I don't understand how they're saying it was smuggling," he said.
> 
> The plan, Peters said, "was to help him get there on humanitarian rights." Asked if that meant he might have intended to file an asylum claim, Peters said "I can't really comment on it at the moment. Cindy's in jail now so I don't know what's going on down there."
> 
> "I don't know where these documents were coming from; that was all Cindy's area. I was just doing security," Peters said.



Mexico: Al Saadi Gaddafi Tried To Enter Country


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya militias given deadline to disarm and leave Tripoli








> Reporting from Tripoli, Libya Weary of continuing gunfire in the streets of the capital, Libya's interim government has given notice to out-of-town militias to hand in their weapons and leave Tripoli in order to help steer the country toward civilian rule.
> 
> Militias have until Dec. 20 to leave, said Abdul-Rafik Bu Hajjar, head of the Tripoli municipal council, threatening to ban all traffic except vehicles from the Interior and Defense ministries if the militias fail to comply. His order has the backing of the new prime minister, Abdel-Rahim Keeb.
> 
> Rebel groups from across Libya stormed Tripoli in August, in a final, successful assault on longtime leader Moammar Kadafi. Having transformed government buildings and opulent homes of former Kadafi confidants into brigade "headquarters," the militias now seem reluctant to depart.
> 
> Armed groups from the cities of Misurata and Zintan are among the most powerful remaining in the Libyan capital. As night falls, members have engaged in internecine feuds, gunfire and bombings.
> 
> There is major concern that the militias will become the muscle for political factions increasingly divided along Islamist and secular lines. Already, newly named secularist Defense Minister Osama Jueli has said he intends to keep a militia, particularly men from his hometown of Zintan, on the streets of the capital until a credible police force emerges.
> 
> "It's the duty of the Ministry of Interior to establish security and establish a police force to take over from the revolutionaries who are in control," he said. "These will not be withdrawn until a police force is established; to be sure, this is what I am aiming for."
> 
> But the presence of the Zintan brigades and other militias is not welcomed by the Tripoli Military Council's Qatar-backed Islamist leader, Abdel-Hakim Belhaj, who for months has armed and paid higher salaries to men he considers loyal to him, forming a private militia.
> 
> Scores of Tripoli residents Wednesday protested the continuing lawless behavior of remaining militias.
> 
> The attorney general of Libya's new government said Wednesday that armed men had dragged him from his car in broad daylight in Tripoli and threatened his life if he didn't free one of their friends from jail. Abdel-Aziz Hassady said he escaped only by snatching a gun from one of the attackers and pointing it at another's head until he was able to get into a car and escape.
> 
> Recently, The Times has witnessed other rebels taking "justice" into their own hands. The men had captured suspected Kadafi loyalists and locked them in tunnels built below the home of one of Kadafi's sons, Mutassim.
> 
> Speaking anonymously, a Tripoli telecommunications company employee said he was similarly detained after a street scuffle in which he broke a rebel fighter's nose.
> 
> "They [a rebel gang] came to my house at night to take me away. There were a dozen cars and a pickup truck with an antiaircraft gun mounted on it," he said. "They accused me of being a Kadafi supporter, and before I even started the court proceedings for breaking the man's nose, they took me to their brigade house and kept me there for two weeks of interrogation."
> 
> Personal relationships and feuds often take precedence over law books, the arrestee said.
> 
> "The brother of an ex-girlfriend was in the brigade that took me. He hates me. Every day he would come to my cell and promise I would never be released. They are working without a system, they don't know what they do, there is no strategy, they are just collecting people. There are a lot of people arrested without trial."



Libya militias given deadline to disarm and leave Tripoli - latimes.com


----------



## High_Gravity

Abdel Hakim Belhaj, Libya Rebel, Suing UK Over Alleged Role In Rendition 








> LONDON  A legal action charity says the head of Tripoli's military council is suing Britain and its security forces for their alleged role in his rendition in 2004.
> 
> London-based group Reprieve says Abdel-Hakim Belhaj and his wife were handed over to U.S. authorities for rendition to Libya in 2004, when they tried to seek asylum in Britain.
> 
> It says the couple, who then lived in Beijing, were forced on planes that took them to what was believed to be a secret U.S. prison where they were abused. The couple were then imprisoned in Libyan jails.
> 
> Sapna Malik, a lawyer representing Belhaj and his wife, says it appeared Britain "was responsible for setting off this torturous chain of events."



Abdel Hakim Belhaj, Libya Rebel, Suing UK Over Alleged Role In Rendition


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## JStone

High_Gravity said:


> Abdel Hakim Belhaj, Libya Rebel, Suing UK Over Alleged Role In Rendition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LONDON  A legal action charity says the head of Tripoli's military council is suing Britain and its security forces for their alleged role in his rendition in 2004.
> 
> London-based group Reprieve says Abdel-Hakim Belhaj and his wife were handed over to U.S. authorities for rendition to Libya in 2004, when they tried to seek asylum in Britain.
> 
> It says the couple, who then lived in Beijing, were forced on planes that took them to what was believed to be a secret U.S. prison where they were abused. The couple were then imprisoned in Libyan jails.
> 
> Sapna Malik, a lawyer representing Belhaj and his wife, says it appeared Britain "was responsible for setting off this torturous chain of events."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abdel Hakim Belhaj, Libya Rebel, Suing UK Over Alleged Role In Rendition
Click to expand...


The more things change, the more they remain the same...

Christopher Hitchens


> ...One cannot get around what [Thomas] Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripolis ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, Americas two foremost envoys were informed that it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise. (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)
> 
> Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates by Christopher Hitchens, City Journal Spring 2007


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## Conservative

bigfuckingnarcissist1775 should immediately go over to Libya and show the new government exactly where all the functioning nukes are. He's the only one who still thinks they are there somewhere, so he must know where they are hidden.


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## High_Gravity

Conservative said:


> bigfuckingnarcissist1775 should immediately go over to Libya and show the new government exactly where all the functioning nukes are. He's the only one who still thinks they are there somewhere, so he must know where they are hidden.



LMAO! I agree 100%, that clown needs to suit up and get the fuck over there and show the Libyans whats up.


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## High_Gravity

Syria refugees find sanctuary in Libya









> Reporting from Benghazi, Libya Even as it recovers from its recent civil war, Libya is fast becoming a place of sanctuary for thousands of refugees fleeing the bloodshed in Syria.
> 
> Buses from Damascus, crammed with Syrian families, are arriving daily in the eastern city of Benghazi, the cradle of the effort to oust the late Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi.
> 
> "Up to 4,000 Syrian families have sought refuge in Libya in the last weeks, and the numbers are increasing every day," said Mohammed Jammal, a Syrian community leader in the city. "The buses arrive full and go back empty. There used to be two a week, but now there are two a day."
> 
> Crammed full with families and young men, the buses pull into the station at all times of the night after a grueling 41/2-day trip, crossing first into Jordan, then across the Suez Canal, through Egypt and down the long road to Benghazi.
> 
> They arrive in a city where uncollected trash still lines the streets, schools have only recently reopened, and residents are just beginning to find work. Slogans of the Libyan revolution share space on walls with posters of loved ones lost in the fighting. Radio advertisements are interspersed with warnings to civilians not to touch unexploded ordnance, including grenades, half-shattered rockets and tank shells that still lie scattered around the city.
> 
> A country that is only now beginning to pick itself up may seem an unlikely destination for families fleeing violence in their own nation. But some of the Syrian families pouring into Benghazi say that, in many ways, Libya is one of the only countries in which they could feel safe.
> 
> "Libya is free now. There is no secret police to watch you move," said a refugee who, like others interviewed, was too fearful to give his name. "They had their revolution, and now they will help us have ours."
> 
> The nascent Libyan government, which in October was the first to formally recognize the Syrian National Council, the country's most prominent opposition bloc, has said it will take in the refugees.
> 
> Many of the families escaping Syria are opponents of the government of President Bashar Assad. They fear they could be arrested in Lebanon, where the governing coalition is friendly to the Syrian regime, or in Turkey or Jordan by Syrian intelligence officials who have infiltrated those countries.
> 
> Rows of mobile homes are being readied for them in a camp that already houses 120,000 people displaced by the Libyan war.
> 
> The camp opened during the early days of that conflict as a collection of quickly erected tents to house thousands of migrants as they waited to flee the country. They included many Africans who became vulnerable to attack when rumors spread that Kadafi was hiring African mercenaries. Those from countries so insecure it is dangerous for them to return home remained in the camp as it grew into a large sprawl of mobile homes surrounded by a high wall. They have been joined by Libyans affected by the rancor generated during the war.
> 
> "We have 35 Syrian families being sent here," said Ibrahim Asfour, who manages the camp for the Libyan Red Crescent Society. "And we expect many more."



Syria refugees find sanctuary in Libya - latimes.com


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## High_Gravity

Oh how the might have fallen.

Kadafi's daughter reportedly eyeing asylum in Israel








> REPORTING FROM JERUSALEM -- Is Aisha Kadafi, daughter of the slain Libyan ruler Moammar Kadafi, considering seeking asylum in Israel? Unlikely as it seems, this may be the case.
> 
> The Israeli news website Walla, quoted a report published in Intelligence Online that said Aisha indicated to confidants from Europe that only in Israel would she feel safe and that she hoped to be allowed to live there. In August, she fled Libya for Algeria with her mother, two of her brothers and several other family members. Recently she expressed concern that her Algerian hosts may not be able to resist pressure from Libya's new government to extradite her to stand trial along with her brother, Saif al-Islam.
> 
> Aisha Kadafi already has at least one Israeli connection -- her attorney. Until recently, Nick Kaufman was a senior prosecutor with the Israeli Ministry of Justice. A former prosecutor at the United Nation's International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, the Israeli lawyer was recently hired by Aisha and her brother Saadi to advance a probe into the killing of their father and another brother with the ICC, the International Criminal Court.
> 
> The family may have an indirect Israeli tie. Two years ago, Saif al-Islam reportedly negotiated with Israel through a mediator for a peaceful compromise concerning an aid ship he sent toward Gaza, where a naval blockade keeps vessels from docking.
> 
> Aisha Kadafi's friends reportedly discouraged her from making an official request for asylum in Israel, which would probably balk at harboring the daughter of a slain Arab dictator.
> 
> But she might actually qualify for the automatic right to immigrate to the Jewish state. Rumors have persisted among Libyan Jews in Israel for years that Kadafi himself is Jewish.



Kadafi's daughter reportedly eyeing asylum in Israel - latimes.com


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## Conservative

High_Gravity said:


> Kadafi's daughter reportedly eyeing asylum in Israel - latimes.com



bigfuckingnarcissist1775 should go over and strip search her for the missing nukes.


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## High_Gravity

Conservative said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kadafi's daughter reportedly eyeing asylum in Israel - latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigfuckingnarcissist1775 should go over and strip search her for the missing nukes.
Click to expand...


LMAO! Man you are straight up clowning this fool on this board!


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## Conservative

High_Gravity said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kadafi's daughter reportedly eyeing asylum in Israel - latimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigfuckingnarcissist1775 should go over and strip search her for the missing nukes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! Man you are straight up clowning this fool on this board!
Click to expand...


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## High_Gravity

Libya's Army Tries to Reassert Itself as Militias Have Their Way








> The drenching rains and whipping winds off the Mediterranean Sea were not enough to keep Major Anwar al-Mishri in his Toyota pickup truck. "Our patrols go out no matter what," he said, his voice barely audible over the pelting drops. "Our job is to protect the people. And that is what we are here to do tonight."
> 
> Over the past few weeks, units of the Libyan national army such as Mishri's have stepped up their presence in the capital, Tripoli, urging regional militias to disband and join their forces. Many have scoffed at the offer, preferring instead to keep their heavy weapons. The new Libyan government is too weak to confront the brigades. It is concentrating efforts on more pressing matters, such as lobbying the international community to release its frozen assets. With the government lacking the will and motivation to confront the brigades, the creation of a national fighting force to replace the regional units scattered throughout the country is unlikely to be accomplished anytime soon.
> 
> But that doesn't deter the major. On the coastal road near the neighborhood of Suq al-Juma'a, Mishri and his 20 soldiers have set up a makeshift checkpoint. They spread out around a traffic circle, with the men standing between the road's lanes. The soldiers are looking for pickup trucks with heavy weapons, like missile launchers. The hundreds of brigades that sprang up during the country's eight-month revolution pilfered the army's depots, making off with thousands of antitank cannons and antiaircraft guns. Now that the revolution is over and former leader Muammar Gaddafi is dead, Libya's new government, known as the National Transitional Council (NTC), wants them to return the weapons to the barracks. "The militias need to hand the missiles over to the army, and that is why we are here," says Mishri.
> 
> In downtown Tripoli, Colonel Salim Azway is inspecting a military-police office on Medina Street. The regional office has been busy signing up recruits for the armed-forces branch. Thirty-five men enlisted at the Medina Street station over the past seven weeks. "Every day we get new people," says the colonel, sifting through a seven-page list of 128 people who joined the military police since July. But he admits that not everyone joins out of a sense of national duty. "Some sign up for nationalistic reasons, others because they need to work." With the economy decimated by the war, many have been enticed by the promise of a steady paycheck. Married men receive 500 Libyan dinars per month ($322), and single men receive 300 dinars ($194).
> 
> The military police verify that everyone carrying a weapon has a permit from the national army. Like Mishri's men, they set up random checkpoints throughout the capital. They also search for high-ranking Gaddafi loyalists who served in the brigades that led the assault against the rebels during the revolution.
> 
> At Tripoli's airport, a group of militia fighters are gathered around a pickup weighed down by an antiaircraft gun. "Why do we need to turn in our weapons and register our guns?" Radi Jalban asks. "We liberated the country, and it is our right to carry weapons." Jalban and his fellow fighters come from Zintan, a city whose warriors played a key role in liberating western Libya. Zintani brigades subsequently encircled Tripoli and led the final assault against the loyalists. They later captured Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam, who remains incarcerated in their hometown. They are the last remaining regional brigade in Tripoli controlling the airport and a few other pockets around the capital.
> 
> The NTC and its national army have not been able to persuade militias from Zintan and other cities to join the new armed forces, nor have they been able to rein them in. More interested in guarding their independence than in fostering national unity, the brigades from what are virtually city-states have rebuffed the NTC's entreaties to disband. They have also refused to allow the NTC access to prisoners, leaving the council in the dark about which senior Gaddafi officials they hold. At a recent press conference, NTC vice chairman Abd al-Hafiz Ghoga confessed that the government does not know where Gaddafi's former intelligence chief, Abdallah Sanussi, is being held. The Zintani fighters holding Saif al-Islam Gaddafi have refused to surrender him to the national authorities.



Read more: Libya's Army Tries to Reassert Itself in Face of Militias - TIME


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## Conservative

all bigfuckingnarcissist1775 has to do is pick a side, then go tell them where the nukes are hidden. Problem solved.


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## High_Gravity

Conservative said:


> all bigfuckingnarcissist1775 has to do is pick a side, then go tell them where the nukes are hidden. Problem solved.



LMAO! You are never going to give this guy a break are you?


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## Conservative

High_Gravity said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> 
> all bigfuckingnarcissist1775 has to do is pick a side, then go tell them where the nukes are hidden. Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! You are never going to give this guy a break are you?
Click to expand...


the odds would seem against it.


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## High_Gravity

Conservative said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> 
> all bigfuckingnarcissist1775 has to do is pick a side, then go tell them where the nukes are hidden. Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! You are never going to give this guy a break are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the odds would seem against it.
Click to expand...


You should jump in on the Anwar Al-Awlaki thread, your boy is on there defending that terrorist like its nobodies business.


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## Conservative

High_Gravity said:


> Conservative said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! You are never going to give this guy a break are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the odds would seem against it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should jump in on the Anwar Al-Awlaki thread, your boy is on there defending that terrorist like its nobodies business.
Click to expand...


i wouldn't want to permanently damage his psyche.


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## High_Gravity

In Post-Gaddafi Libya, Freedom is Messyand Getting Messier








> I fear this looks like a civil war, one Libyan rebel commander from Misrata told the Associated Press, in the wake of a fierce firefight between rival militia factions using heavy weapons in broad daylight in Tripoli on Tuesday.  Four fighters were reportedly killed and five wounded in the clash ignited by the attempts of a Misrata-based militia to free a comrade detained by the Tripoli Military Council on suspicion of theft. But such clashes have become increasingly common in the Libyan capital over the past two months, as rival militias stake out turf in the power vacuum caused by the collapse of the Gaddafi regime. And while leaders on both sides of Tuesdays clash were eventually able to broker a cease-fire, the deep fissures of tribe, region, ideology and sometimes even neighborhood that divide rival armed groups persist and theres no sign yet of the emergence of a central political authority with the military muscle to enforce its writ.
> 
> The residents and militias of Tripoli have been trying for months to persuade the Misrata and Zintan fighters who stormed the capital to topple the regime to go back to their home towns, but those fighters are staying putand are accused of harassing the locals. They see themselves as the ones who shouldered the greatest burden in the battle to drive out Gaddafi, and they are suspicious of edicts by the National Transitional Council (NTC), which they see as self-appointed interlopers from Benghazi (the NTCs recognition by the West and Arab governments as Libyas legitimate government notwithstanding). The fighters of Zintan and Misrata are in no hurry to subordinate themselves to a national army led by returned exiles and a government of which theyre wary; nor are they willing to accept the authority of the Tripoli Military Council headed by the Islamist Abdel Hakim Belhadj, despite his endorsement by the NTC. Mindful of the political power that flows from being armed and organized, and determined to leverage that into a greater share of power and resources for the regions and towns they claim to represent, the regional militias are in no rush to give up their control of prized political real estate. Theyve ignored the Dec. 20 deadline to leave Tripoli. And, when NTC-backed armed groups tangle with them, as happened with the New Years Eve arrest of some of their men, theyre willing to fight.
> 
> Freedom is messy, former U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld famously offered as an explanation for the chaos that beset Baghdad in the weeks that followed the ouster of Saddam Hussein. The difference, of course, is that in Iraq, the U.S. military had established a monopoly of force Rumsfeld was simply clinging to the hope that it wouldnt have to be used to stabilize post-Saddam Iraq, and could be brought home pronto. But Libya, as we know, was a different kind of operation an aproach hailed by U.S. and NATO officials as a new model of intervention-lite in which Western powers and Arab allies could help indigenous populations oust odious dictators with minimal commitment of blood and treasure. While months of air strikes and a few hundred Qatari special forces troops on the ground proved to be enough to shatter Colonel Gaddafis regime, it could notnor did it intend tofill the resultant security void. NATO and its partners simply recognized the Benghazi-based NTC and its allied armed formations as the legitimate authority, supplied it with aid and resources, and hoped for the best.
> 
> The problem, of course, was that the Libyan rebels were never an army; they were patchwork of small local militia units, deserters from the regular army, and a smattering of former exiles with military experience. Moreover, the recognition extended by foreign powers to the NTC was far in advance of the extent to which Libyans, even many of those in the forefront of the battle to oust Gaddafi, were willing to accept its lead. The fact that the rebel leadership had not established an alternative power center meant that the collapse of Gaddafi also meant an effective collapse of state authority. The challenge now facing the rebels is to build a new state on the ruins of the old, and the first order of state-building business is establishing a monopoly on military force within its borders. The NTC is struggling to meet that challenge.



Read more: In Post-Gaddafi Libya, Freedom is Messy, and Getting Messier | Global Spin | TIME.com


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## High_Gravity

Libya's nasty new friend








> Memo to the new leaders of Libya: If you're trying to establish a democratic, internationally recognized state founded on the rule of law, it's a very bad idea to seek governance advice from the modern successor to Idi Amin.
> 
> In one of the more incongruous diplomatic visits in recent memory, Libyan officials over the weekend rolled out the red carpet for none other than Sudanese President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir  the dictator next door wanted by the International Criminal Court on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity for slaughtering his own people, very like the military dictator just overthrown in Libya who was also wanted by the ICC on similar charges.
> 
> Bashir's warm welcome in Tripoli is a bit more comprehensible in the context of recent events. He and former Libyan strongman Moammar Kadafi, despite the similarity of their methods, were not friends. Kadafi is believed to have armed rebels in Sudan's restive Darfur region and offered sanctuary last year to the leader of one of Darfur's key rebel groups. Bashir, meanwhile, claims to have provided weapons to the Libyan insurgents who overthrew Kadafi last fall with help from NATO forces. It's possible, then, that Libya's interim government welcomed Bashir on Saturday out of gratitude for his support during the revolution. But that's no excuse.
> 
> Libya's leadership is reportedly seeking advice from Bashir on ways to integrate former insurgents into the nation's military and police forces. There may be nobody on Earth less qualified to offer such guidance. Bashir is a master at displacing and destroying whole communities in the name of disarming insurgents, and in arming proxy militias to carry out his regime's genocidal work. Taking him on as a consultant on community policing is like soliciting cooking advice from Hannibal Lecter.



Libya's ill-conceived welcome mat for Sudan's murderous leader - latimes.com


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## High_Gravity

Now Able to Exhale, Libyan Rappers Find a Voice








> TRIPOLI, Libya  A small crowd of boys huddled around the open door of a concrete shed turned recording studio to gawk at a trio of Libyan rappers in black baseball caps and oversize hoodies mixing tracks on a wide computer screen.
> 
> The men paid little attention to their wide-eyed audience and labored through take after take of their latest project: a public service announcement for a local television station urging trigger-happy rebel fighters to lay down their arms, something they still have not done four months after Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi was driven from power.
> 
> Dont open fire into the air; our lives are more valuable than the cost of bullets, said Siraj Kamal Jerafa, 28, locked inside an improvised sound booth whose walls were covered in worn sofa upholstery. At the end of the night, he emerged smiling to a roomful of high fives. With nothing more to see, the little boys outside wandered back to their homes.
> 
> Mr. Jerafa, who performs under the stage name Lantern, is part of the GAB Crew, a Libyan hip-hop group whose members, like many young people, are reveling in and grappling with the new freedom of expression that has flourished here since the fall of Colonel Qaddafi.
> 
> Libyans lived for decades in the shadow of the long-ago revolution that swept Colonel Qaddafi, who called himself Brother Leader, into power. His rule was nasty, brutish and long. But it is over now, ended by a revolution whose fighters are overwhelmingly young.
> 
> Under Colonel Qaddafis repressive rule, Libyans kept their personal and political opinions to themselves, and unedited thoughts were shared with only a trusted few. Now all that has changed. In a country where politics and public life were for generations violently and obsessively policed, young people are now breathing and speaking more freely than ever before.
> 
> Mocking graffiti have replaced the reverential portraits of Colonel Qaddafi that once hung on walls across the city, and a new generation of colorful, independent newspapers speculate on the activities of his surviving children the way Western tabloids cover the lives of celebrities.
> 
> Even on a day when there are no classes, students gather on the campus of Tripoli University, where political prisoners were once publicly hanged. The students swap stories from the revolution and debate the merits of the postwar transitional government.
> 
> Many find the new freedom to speak ones mind both exhilarating and disorienting.
> 
> We are free, but we dont know how to live as free people, said Kareem Saqer, 23, a student studying economics. So we talk.
> 
> The new political environment offers a virtually unrestricted creative license to artists like Mr. Jerafa, who can finally try to make music with a message.
> 
> Before the revolution, music was just a way to kill time because we didnt have any freedom of speech, he said. If you talked about politics or stepped on any of the governments red lines, they would put you behind bars. Youd be dead.
> 
> His group traditionally avoided politics altogether. The bandmates performed primarily in English to stay off the government monitor, he said, and sang almost exclusively about partying with girls, in a conservative country with no nightclubs. We had our own nightclubs, up here, he said, tapping his temples.
> 
> In 2008 they recorded one song, titled Pain, with a hidden political message about the bleakness of life under Colonel Qaddafi. Its vague lyrics were easily passed off as an unremarkable song about teenage angst.
> 
> I open my eyes, and am cursed with pain, they sang. I try to smile, but end up with tears again.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/w...revel-in-freedom-to-speak-out.html?ref=africa


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## High_Gravity

Moammar Gaddafi, Late Libyan Dictator, Had Undeclared Stockpile Of Chemical Weapons 



> AMSTERDAM -- International inspectors have confirmed that late Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi had an undeclared stockpile of chemical weapons, the organization that oversees a global ban on such armaments announced Friday.
> 
> The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons said inspectors who visited Libya this week found sulfur mustard and artillery shells "which they determined are chemical munitions," meaning the shells were not filled with chemicals, but were designed specifically to be loaded with chemical weapons.
> 
> "They are not ready to use, because they are not loaded with agents," OPCW spokesman Michael Luhan said.
> 
> He would not divulge the amounts of chemicals in the previously unknown stockpile, except to call it "a fraction" of what Gadhafi disclosed in the past.
> 
> Libya's new rulers told the Hague-based organization about the chemicals last year after toppling Gadhafi from power. The longtime Libyan strongman was killed in October after being captured by rebel fighters.
> 
> The newly confirmed chemical armaments are stored at the Ruwagha depot in southeastern Libya together with chemical weapons that Gadhafi had declared to international authorities in 2004 as he tried to shake off his image as an international pariah and rebuild relations with the West.
> 
> He declared his regime had 25 metric tons (27.6 tons) of sulfur mustard and 1,400 metric tons (1,543 tons) of precursor chemicals used to make chemical weapons. His regime also declared more than 3,500 unfilled aerial bombs designed for use with chemical warfare agents such as sulfur mustard, and three chemical weapons production facilities.
> 
> Those stockpiles were being destroyed until a technical problem halted destruction last year at the same time as the popular uprising began that led to Gadhafi's ouster and death.



Moammar Gaddafi, Late Libyan Dictator, Had Undeclared Stockpile Of Chemical Weapons


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## Conservative

Where are the nukes? 

I want to see the nukes bigfuckingnarcissist1775 promised me they had! 

Where are they??????


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## High_Gravity

Conservative said:


> Where are the nukes?
> 
> I want to see the nukes bigfuckingnarcissist1775 promised me they had!
> 
> Where are they??????



LMAO! You are never going to let that guy live this down!


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya's National Transitional Council Deputy Head Abdel Hafiz Ghoga To Resign 








> BENGHAZI, Libya, Jan 22 (Reuters) - The deputy head of Libya's ruling National Transitional Council (NTC) said on Sunday he was resigning after a series of protests against the new government which the country's leader warned could drag Libya into a "bottomless pit."
> 
> 
> Late on Saturday, a crowd demanding the government's resignation smashed windows and forced their way into the NTC's local headquarters in Benghazi, in the most serious show of anger at the new authorities since Muammar Gaddafi was ousted.
> 
> The NTC has the support of the Western powers who helped force out Gaddafi in a nine-month conflict, but it is unelected, has been slow to restore basic public services, and some Libyans say too many of its members are tarnished by ties to Gaddafi.
> 
> Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, vice-president of the NTC and one of the council's highest-profile members, was the target of some of the protesters' criticism. He said he was quitting to try to limit the damage to the council.
> 
> "My resignation is for the benefit of the nation and is required at this stage," Ghoga told Al Jazeera television.
> 
> He said the national consensus that helped the country rise up and end Gaddafi's 42-year rule had not lasted into peace-time, giving way instead to what he called an atmosphere of "hatred."
> 
> "I do not want this atmosphere to continue and negatively affect the National Transitional Council and its performance," said Ghoga, who also acted as the NTC's spokesman.
> 
> Ghoga is one of the most senior of Libya's new rulers to have left office since Gaddafi's overthrow in August. His departure will revive doubts about the NTC's ability to form a cohesive and effective government.
> 
> He was jostled by an angry crowd of students when he visited a university in Benghazi on Thursday. He had to be pulled away to safety.



Libya's National Transitional Council Deputy Head Abdel Hafiz Ghoga To Resign


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Seize Bani Walid 








> BENGHAZI, Libya  Moammar Gadhafi loyalists seized control of a Libyan mountain city in the most serious challenge to the central government since the strongman's fall, underlining the increasing weakness of Libya's Western-backed rulers as they try to unify the country under their authority.
> 
> The taking of Bani Walid, which was one of the last Gadhafi strongholds captured by the new leadership late last year, was the first such organized operation by armed remnants of Gadhafi's regime. A simultaneous outbreak of shootings in the capital and Libya's second largest city Benghazi raised authorities' concerned that other networks of loyalists were active elsewhere.
> 
> The security woes add to the difficulties of the ruling National Transitional Council, which is struggling to establish its authority and show Libyans progress in stability and good government. Bani Walid's fall comes after violent protests in Benghazi, where Libyans angry over lack of reform stormed the NTC headquarters and trashed offices.
> 
> In Bani Walid, hundreds of well-equipped and highly trained remnants of Gadhafi's forces battled for eight hours on Monday with the local pro-NTC revolutionary brigade, known as the May 28 Brigade, said Mubarak al-Fatmani, the head of Bani Walid local council. The brigade was driven out and Gadhafi loyalists then raised the green flag over buildings in the western city.
> 
> Four revolutionary fighters were killed and 25 others were wounded in the fighting, al-Fatmani said.
> 
> There were no immediate signs that the uprising was part of some direct attempt to restore the family of Gadhafi, who was swept out of power in August and then killed in the nearby city of Sirte in October. His sons, daughter and wife have either been killed, arrested or fled to neighboring countries.
> 
> Instead, the fighting seemed to reflect a rejection of NTC control by a city that never deeply accepted its rule, highlighting the still unresolved tensions between those who benefited under Gadhafi's regime and those now in power. Those tensions are tightly wound up with tribal and regional rivalries around the country.
> 
> The May 28 Brigade had kept only a superficial control over the city, the head of Bani Walid's military council, Abdullah al-Khazmi, acknowledged.
> 
> "The only link between Bani Walid and the revolution was May 28, now it is gone and 99 percent of Bani Walid people are Gadhafi loyalists," he said.
> 
> He spoke to The Associated Press at a position on the eastern outskirts of Bani Walid, where hundreds of pro-NTC reinforcements from Benghazi were deployed, with convoys of cars mounted with machine guns, though there was no immediate move to retake the city.
> 
> The fighters who captured the city Monday night belong to Brigade 93, a militia newly created by Gadhafi loyalists who reassembled after the fall of the regime, said al-Khazmi and al-Fatmani. The fighters, flush with cash and heavy weaponry including incendiary bombs, have been increasing in power in the city, they said.
> 
> There was no possibility to confirm their claims. However, there was no mass evacuations from the town after the clashes, an indication that the residents appear to accept the new arrangement, said Ali al-Fatmani, a revolutionary brigade commander in Bani Walid.
> 
> Authorities in Benghazi, where the NTC is centered, appeared concerned that the Bani Walid uprising could have sent a signal to other cells of Gadhafi forces.
> 
> An AP reporter who was present in Benghazi operation room heard military commanders on Monday saying coordinated incidents of drive-by shootings in Tripoli and, to a lesser extent, Benghazi erupted as news of the Bani Walid takeover spread. In Tripoli, some shops closed and fighters responsible for security in the capital were on a state of alert over the shootings.
> 
> Five months since the Gadhafi regime's fall and three months since his death, the National Transitional Council has so far made little progress in unifying armed forces. Instead it relies largely on multiple "revolutionary brigades," militias made up of citizens-turned-fighters, usually all from a specific city or even neighborhood.



Libya: Gaddafi Loyalists Seize Bani Walid


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: Doctors Without Borders Asked To Treat Torture Victims In Misrata 



> TRIPOLI, Jan 26 (Reuters) - Aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) has halted its work in detention centres in a Libyan city because it said its medical staff were being asked to patch up detainees mid-way through torture sessions so they could go back for more abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> Rights groups have repeatedly raised concerns about torture being used against people, many of them sub-Saharan Africans, suspected of having fought for Muammar Gaddafi's forces during Libya's nine-month civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> The agency said it was in Misrata, about 200 km (130 miles) east of the Libyan capital and scene of some of the fiercest battles in the conflict, to treat war-wounded detainees but was instead having to treat fresh wounds from torture.
> 
> 
> 
> "Patients were brought to us in the middle of interrogation for medical care, in order to make them fit for more interrogation," MSF General Director Christopher Stokes said in a statement.
> 
> 
> 
> "This is unacceptable. Our role is to provide medical care to war casualties and sick detainees, not to repeatedly treat the same patients between torture sessions."
> 
> 
> 
> The agency said it has raised the issue with the authorities in Misrata and with the national army. "No action was taken," said Stokes. "We have therefore come to the decision to suspend our medical activities in the detention centres."
> 
> 
> 
> Reports of the mistreatment and disappearances of suspected Gaddafi loyalists have embarrassed Libya's ruling National Transitional Council (NTC), which has vowed to make a break with practices under Gaddafi and respect human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> The allegations are also awkward for the Western powers which backed the anti-Gaddafi rebellion and helped install Libya's new leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> The NTC has appealed to its citizens not to carry out reprisals against Gaddafi loyalists and it says it will investigate any abuses. There was no immediate comment from the NTC on the aid agency's allegations.
> 
> 
> 
> The ability of the government in Tripoli to rein in torture is limited because, in most cases, it is carried out by locally based militias who are outside the NTC's chain of command.
> 
> 
> 
> Human rights group Amnesty International said on Thursday it had evidence of several detainees dying after being subjected to torture, including some in Misrata.
> 
> 
> 
> It quoted one man who said he had been tortured earlier this month in the headquarters of Misrata security forces.



Libya: Doctors Without Borders Asked To Treat Torture Victims In Misrata


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Prisons Must Be Taken Over By Government, UN Rights Chief Says 









> DAVOS, Switzerland -- The U.N.'s top human rights official said Friday that Libya's transitional government must take control of all makeshift prisons to prevent further atrocities against detainees.
> 
> Various former rebel groups are holding as many as 8,000 prisoners in 60 detention centers around the country, said U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay.
> 
> "There's torture, extrajudicial executions, rape of both men and women," she told The Associated Press.
> 
> Pillay says she is particularly concerned about sub-Saharan African detainees whom the brigades automatically assume to be fighters for former Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> Aid group Doctors Without Borders suspended its work in prisons in the Libyan city of Misrata on Thursday because it said torture was so rampant that some detainees were brought for care only to make them fit for further interrogation.
> 
> Amnesty International said Thursday it had recorded widespread prisoner abuse in other cities that led to the deaths of several inmates.
> 
> The allegations, which come more than three months after Gadhafi was captured and killed, were an embarrassment to the governing National Transitional Council, which is struggling to establish its authority in the divided nation.



Libya Prisons Must Be Taken Over By Government, UN Rights Chief Says


----------



## High_Gravity

Qaddafis Weapons, Taken by Old Allies, Reinvigorate an Insurgent Army in Mali








> BAMAKO, Mali  In life, he delighted in fomenting insurgencies in the African nations to the south. And in death, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi is doing it all over again.
> 
> Hundreds of Tuareg rebels, heavily armed courtesy of Colonel Qaddafis extensive arsenal, have stormed towns in Malis northern desert in recent weeks, in one of the most significant regional shock waves to emanate directly from the colonels fall.
> 
> After fighting for Colonel Qaddafi as he struggled to stay in power, the Tuaregs helped themselves to a considerable quantity of sophisticated weaponry before returning to Mali. When they got here, they reinvigorated a longstanding rebellion and blossomed into a major challenge for this impoverished desert nation, an important American ally against the regional Al Qaeda franchise.
> 
> The Tuaregs hoisted their rebel flag in the sandy northern towns, shelled military installations, announced the liberation of the area and shouted Allahu akbar, or God is great, according to local officials. Their sudden strength has deeply surprised a Malian Army accustomed to fighting wispy turbaned fighters wielding only Kalashnikov rifles.
> 
> Months after the death of Colonel Qaddafi, his weapons have armed a rebel movement in Africa. In life he backed African insurgencies in Chad, Angola, Guinea-Bissau, Eritrea, Mozambique, Namibia and Zimbabwe.
> 
> And for this sparsely populated land, the recent fighting seems a step beyond the armys desert skirmishes with the Tuaregs in the 1960s, the early 1990s and again in 2006. This time, the rebels are not being quickly stamped out or fleeing to the rocky mountains of this vast, inhospitable region. To the contrary, officials now say they are facing perhaps the most serious threat ever from the Tuaregs.
> 
> Emboldened by their new weaponry, they have formed a made-to-order liberation movement, the M.N.L.A., or Mouvement National Pour la Libération de lAzawad  Azawad being the name they give to northern Mali.
> 
> Our goal is to liberate our lands from Malian occupation, said Moussa Ag Acharatoumane, one of the rebel spokesmen in exile in France.
> 
> The rebels  perhaps as many as 1,000, commanded by a former colonel in Libyas army  brought with them enough of an arsenal to create a kind of standoff with the Malian Army.
> 
> Heavy weapons, said Malis foreign minister, Soumeylou Boubèye Maïga, referring to the new arms. Antitank weapons. Antiaircraft weapons.
> 
> Malian military officials agree. Robust, powerful machine guns, said Lt. Col. Diarran Kone of the Defense Ministry. Mortars, he added, describing the weaponry as significant enough to allow them to achieve their objectives.
> 
> About a half-dozen towns in the north have been attacked, including Niafounké. Both government and rebel forces have suffered casualties, and nearly 10,000 civilians have fled the fighting, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross.
> 
> The situation appears to have worsened for the Mali government over the past few days. The rebels have retaken the town of Ménaka, a military spokesman, Idrissa Traoré, acknowledged Friday, adding that a number of soldiers and civilians  he refused to say how many  had been killed by the rebels in the town of Aguelhok. In Bamako, the capital, families of soldiers have demonstrated against what they say is the governments poor handling of the rebel offensive, blocking roads and burning tires. The defense minister has been replaced, and reprisals have been reported against Tuareg citizens living in the south.
> 
> Officials in Bamako make no secret of their shock at what one Western diplomat called the robustness of the rebel incursion.
> 
> All of a sudden we found ourselves face to face with a thousand men, heavily armed, said Mr. Maïga, the foreign minister. The stability of the entire region could be under threat.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/w...fis-arms-for-rebellion-in-mali.html?ref=world


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- One revolutionary militia controls the airport. Others carve up neighborhoods of the Libyan capital into fiefdoms. They clash in the streets, terrifying residents. They hold detainees in makeshift prisons where torture is said to be rampant.
> 
> As Libya on Friday marks the one-year anniversary of the start of the uprising against Moammar Gadhafi, hundreds of armed militias are the real power on the ground in the country, and the government that took the longtime strongman's place is largely impotent, unable to rein in fighters, rebuild decimated institutions or stop widespread corruption.
> 
> The revolutionary militias contend they are Libya's heroes  the ones who drove Gadhafi from power and who now keep security in the streets at a time when the police and military are all but nonexistent. They insist they won't give up their weapons to a government that is too weak, too corrupt and, they fear, too willing to let elements of the old dictatorship back into positions of power.
> 
> "I am fed up," said the commander of a militia of fighters from the western mountain town of Zintan who control Tripoli's airport. Al-Mukhtar al-Akhdar says Libya's politicians unfairly blame the militias for the country's chaos while doing nothing to bring real change.
> 
> They believe "revolutionaries have no place in Libya now," said al-Akhdar, who was once a tour company owner in Zintan until he took up arms against Gadhafi and now sports a military uniform. "We paid a very heavy price in the revolution, not for the sake of a seat or authority, but for the sake of freedoms and rights."
> 
> As a result, Libya has been flipped upside down, from a country where all power was in the hands of one man, Gadhafi, to one where it has been broken up into hundreds of different hands, each taking its own decisions. The National Transitional Council, which officially rules the country, is struggling to incorporate the militias into the military and police, while trying to get the economy back on its feet and reshape government ministries, courts and other institutions hollowed out under Gadhafi.
> 
> In one sign of the lack of control, Finance Minister Hassan Zaklam admitted that millions of dollars from Gadhafi family assets returned to Libya by European countries  a potentially key source of revenue  have flowed right back out of Libya, stolen by corrupt officials and smuggled out in suitcases through the ports.
> 
> "The money comes for transit only," Zaklam said in a Feb. 6 interview on Libya state TV. He threatened to resign if the government didn't impose control over ports or stop unfreezing the assets. "I can't be a clown," he said.
> 
> Government spokesman Ashur Shamis blamed revolutionaries in charge of ports and middle- and lower-ranking bureaucrats from the old regime who still retain their posts, known among Libyans as the "Green Snakes," after the signature color of Gadhafi's rule.
> 
> At the airport, al-Akhdar blamed customs employees and said his fighters are keeping a closer eye on them  but he insisted stopping smuggling was the police and military's responsibility.
> 
> The militias, meanwhile, are accused of acting like vigilantes and armed gangs, fighting over turf and taking the law into their own hands. Many run private prisons, detaining criminals, suspected former regime members or simply people who run afoul of the fighters.
> 
> In a report Wednesday, London-based Amnesty International said it found prisoners had been tortured or abused in all but one of 11 militia-run facilities it visited. Detainees told the group they had been beaten for hours with whips, cables and plastic hoses and given electrical shocks.
> 
> At least 12 detainees have died since September after torture, it said.
> 
> The militias arose during last year's 8-month-long civil war against Gadhafi.
> 
> Soon after anti-regime protests first erupted nationwide on Feb. 17, 2011, Libya's second largest city Benghazi and the rest of the eastern half of the country threw off rule from Tripoli. As Gadhafi clamped down in the west, Libyan citizens formed local militias based around a city, town or even neighborhood, taking up arms to fight alongside breakaway army units.
> 
> Backed by NATO airstrikes, the militias swept into Tripoli in August, driving out Gadhafi. The militias then were at the forefront of battles for the last regime strongholds, ending with Gadhafi's capture and killing in October at the hands of a militia from Misrata, a city east of Tripoli that endured one of the bloodiest sieges of the civil war.
> 
> Since then, militias have carved up neighborhoods in Tripoli and other cities, establishing their hold with checkpoints at the entrances. There are efforts between them to cooperate: If a brigade chases a suspect into another district, it must seek clearance from the local militia, said Jalal al-Gelani, the deputy police chief of the Tripoli neighborhood of Souq al-Jomaa.
> 
> But borders often overlap. Disputes break out over personnel or relatives from one militia detained by another. Then the weapons come out and shooting begins. There are usually no casualties, but the battles terrify residents. In January, a gunbattle between Misrata and Zintan revolutionaries erupted in a turf fight over a sports complex. The two sides fired rifles and heavy machine guns, shattering the complex's windows and damaging cars.
> 
> The police have been eclipsed. When Tripoli fell, most police fled and shed their uniforms, fearful of revenge attacks. The police chief in Souq al-Jomaa never came back. Now there are about 200 police in the Souq al-Jomaa station, about a tenth of the number of militiamen, said one officer, Mustafa al-Darnawi.
> 
> At night, policemen vanish, afraid of attacks. Police stations are guarded by militiamen.
> 
> "Without revolutionaries, the police are zeros," said a Souq al-Jomaa resident, 24-year-old Ahmed Hajaji, standing next to the local police station, where a large sign over the entrance read, "No to revenge, yes to forgiveness."



Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias (VIDEO)


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI, Libya -- One revolutionary militia controls the airport. Others carve up neighborhoods of the Libyan capital into fiefdoms. They clash in the streets, terrifying residents. They hold detainees in makeshift prisons where torture is said to be rampant.
> 
> As Libya on Friday marks the one-year anniversary of the start of the uprising against Moammar Gadhafi, hundreds of armed militias are the real power on the ground in the country, and the government that took the longtime strongman's place is largely impotent, unable to rein in fighters, rebuild decimated institutions or stop widespread corruption.
> 
> The revolutionary militias contend they are Libya's heroes &#8211; the ones who drove Gadhafi from power and who now keep security in the streets at a time when the police and military are all but nonexistent. They insist they won't give up their weapons to a government that is too weak, too corrupt and, they fear, too willing to let elements of the old dictatorship back into positions of power.
> 
> "I am fed up," said the commander of a militia of fighters from the western mountain town of Zintan who control Tripoli's airport. Al-Mukhtar al-Akhdar says Libya's politicians unfairly blame the militias for the country's chaos while doing nothing to bring real change.
> 
> They believe "revolutionaries have no place in Libya now," said al-Akhdar, who was once a tour company owner in Zintan until he took up arms against Gadhafi and now sports a military uniform. "We paid a very heavy price in the revolution, not for the sake of a seat or authority, but for the sake of freedoms and rights."
> 
> As a result, Libya has been flipped upside down, from a country where all power was in the hands of one man, Gadhafi, to one where it has been broken up into hundreds of different hands, each taking its own decisions. The National Transitional Council, which officially rules the country, is struggling to incorporate the militias into the military and police, while trying to get the economy back on its feet and reshape government ministries, courts and other institutions hollowed out under Gadhafi.
> 
> In one sign of the lack of control, Finance Minister Hassan Zaklam admitted that millions of dollars from Gadhafi family assets returned to Libya by European countries &#8211; a potentially key source of revenue &#8211; have flowed right back out of Libya, stolen by corrupt officials and smuggled out in suitcases through the ports.
> 
> "The money comes for transit only," Zaklam said in a Feb. 6 interview on Libya state TV. He threatened to resign if the government didn't impose control over ports or stop unfreezing the assets. "I can't be a clown," he said.
> 
> Government spokesman Ashur Shamis blamed revolutionaries in charge of ports and middle- and lower-ranking bureaucrats from the old regime who still retain their posts, known among Libyans as the "Green Snakes," after the signature color of Gadhafi's rule.
> 
> At the airport, al-Akhdar blamed customs employees and said his fighters are keeping a closer eye on them &#8211; but he insisted stopping smuggling was the police and military's responsibility.
> 
> The militias, meanwhile, are accused of acting like vigilantes and armed gangs, fighting over turf and taking the law into their own hands. Many run private prisons, detaining criminals, suspected former regime members or simply people who run afoul of the fighters.
> 
> In a report Wednesday, London-based Amnesty International said it found prisoners had been tortured or abused in all but one of 11 militia-run facilities it visited. Detainees told the group they had been beaten for hours with whips, cables and plastic hoses and given electrical shocks.
> 
> At least 12 detainees have died since September after torture, it said.
> 
> The militias arose during last year's 8-month-long civil war against Gadhafi.
> 
> Soon after anti-regime protests first erupted nationwide on Feb. 17, 2011, Libya's second largest city Benghazi and the rest of the eastern half of the country threw off rule from Tripoli. As Gadhafi clamped down in the west, Libyan citizens formed local militias based around a city, town or even neighborhood, taking up arms to fight alongside breakaway army units.
> 
> Backed by NATO airstrikes, the militias swept into Tripoli in August, driving out Gadhafi. The militias then were at the forefront of battles for the last regime strongholds, ending with Gadhafi's capture and killing in October at the hands of a militia from Misrata, a city east of Tripoli that endured one of the bloodiest sieges of the civil war.
> 
> Since then, militias have carved up neighborhoods in Tripoli and other cities, establishing their hold with checkpoints at the entrances. There are efforts between them to cooperate: If a brigade chases a suspect into another district, it must seek clearance from the local militia, said Jalal al-Gelani, the deputy police chief of the Tripoli neighborhood of Souq al-Jomaa.
> 
> But borders often overlap. Disputes break out over personnel or relatives from one militia detained by another. Then the weapons come out and shooting begins. There are usually no casualties, but the battles terrify residents. In January, a gunbattle between Misrata and Zintan revolutionaries erupted in a turf fight over a sports complex. The two sides fired rifles and heavy machine guns, shattering the complex's windows and damaging cars.
> 
> The police have been eclipsed. When Tripoli fell, most police fled and shed their uniforms, fearful of revenge attacks. The police chief in Souq al-Jomaa never came back. Now there are about 200 police in the Souq al-Jomaa station, about a tenth of the number of militiamen, said one officer, Mustafa al-Darnawi.
> 
> At night, policemen vanish, afraid of attacks. Police stations are guarded by militiamen.
> 
> "Without revolutionaries, the police are zeros," said a Souq al-Jomaa resident, 24-year-old Ahmed Hajaji, standing next to the local police station, where a large sign over the entrance read, "No to revenge, yes to forgiveness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias (VIDEO)
Click to expand...




High_Gravity said:


> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI, Libya -- One revolutionary militia controls the airport. Others carve up neighborhoods of the Libyan capital into fiefdoms. They clash in the streets, terrifying residents. They hold detainees in makeshift prisons where torture is said to be rampant.
> 
> As Libya on Friday marks the one-year anniversary of the start of the uprising against Moammar Gadhafi, hundreds of armed militias are the real power on the ground in the country, and the government that took the longtime strongman's place is largely impotent, unable to rein in fighters, rebuild decimated institutions or stop widespread corruption.
> 
> The revolutionary militias contend they are Libya's heroes &#8211; the ones who drove Gadhafi from power and who now keep security in the streets at a time when the police and military are all but nonexistent. They insist they won't give up their weapons to a government that is too weak, too corrupt and, they fear, too willing to let elements of the old dictatorship back into positions of power.
> 
> "I am fed up," said the commander of a militia of fighters from the western mountain town of Zintan who control Tripoli's airport. Al-Mukhtar al-Akhdar says Libya's politicians unfairly blame the militias for the country's chaos while doing nothing to bring real change.
> 
> They believe "revolutionaries have no place in Libya now," said al-Akhdar, who was once a tour company owner in Zintan until he took up arms against Gadhafi and now sports a military uniform. "We paid a very heavy price in the revolution, not for the sake of a seat or authority, but for the sake of freedoms and rights."
> 
> As a result, Libya has been flipped upside down, from a country where all power was in the hands of one man, Gadhafi, to one where it has been broken up into hundreds of different hands, each taking its own decisions. The National Transitional Council, which officially rules the country, is struggling to incorporate the militias into the military and police, while trying to get the economy back on its feet and reshape government ministries, courts and other institutions hollowed out under Gadhafi.
> 
> In one sign of the lack of control, Finance Minister Hassan Zaklam admitted that millions of dollars from Gadhafi family assets returned to Libya by European countries &#8211; a potentially key source of revenue &#8211; have flowed right back out of Libya, stolen by corrupt officials and smuggled out in suitcases through the ports.
> 
> "The money comes for transit only," Zaklam said in a Feb. 6 interview on Libya state TV. He threatened to resign if the government didn't impose control over ports or stop unfreezing the assets. "I can't be a clown," he said.
> 
> Government spokesman Ashur Shamis blamed revolutionaries in charge of ports and middle- and lower-ranking bureaucrats from the old regime who still retain their posts, known among Libyans as the "Green Snakes," after the signature color of Gadhafi's rule.
> 
> At the airport, al-Akhdar blamed customs employees and said his fighters are keeping a closer eye on them &#8211; but he insisted stopping smuggling was the police and military's responsibility.
> 
> The militias, meanwhile, are accused of acting like vigilantes and armed gangs, fighting over turf and taking the law into their own hands. Many run private prisons, detaining criminals, suspected former regime members or simply people who run afoul of the fighters.
> 
> In a report Wednesday, London-based Amnesty International said it found prisoners had been tortured or abused in all but one of 11 militia-run facilities it visited. Detainees told the group they had been beaten for hours with whips, cables and plastic hoses and given electrical shocks.
> 
> At least 12 detainees have died since September after torture, it said.
> 
> The militias arose during last year's 8-month-long civil war against Gadhafi.
> 
> Soon after anti-regime protests first erupted nationwide on Feb. 17, 2011, Libya's second largest city Benghazi and the rest of the eastern half of the country threw off rule from Tripoli. As Gadhafi clamped down in the west, Libyan citizens formed local militias based around a city, town or even neighborhood, taking up arms to fight alongside breakaway army units.
> 
> Backed by NATO airstrikes, the militias swept into Tripoli in August, driving out Gadhafi. The militias then were at the forefront of battles for the last regime strongholds, ending with Gadhafi's capture and killing in October at the hands of a militia from Misrata, a city east of Tripoli that endured one of the bloodiest sieges of the civil war.
> 
> Since then, militias have carved up neighborhoods in Tripoli and other cities, establishing their hold with checkpoints at the entrances. There are efforts between them to cooperate: If a brigade chases a suspect into another district, it must seek clearance from the local militia, said Jalal al-Gelani, the deputy police chief of the Tripoli neighborhood of Souq al-Jomaa.
> 
> But borders often overlap. Disputes break out over personnel or relatives from one militia detained by another. Then the weapons come out and shooting begins. There are usually no casualties, but the battles terrify residents. In January, a gunbattle between Misrata and Zintan revolutionaries erupted in a turf fight over a sports complex. The two sides fired rifles and heavy machine guns, shattering the complex's windows and damaging cars.
> 
> The police have been eclipsed. When Tripoli fell, most police fled and shed their uniforms, fearful of revenge attacks. The police chief in Souq al-Jomaa never came back. Now there are about 200 police in the Souq al-Jomaa station, about a tenth of the number of militiamen, said one officer, Mustafa al-Darnawi.
> 
> At night, policemen vanish, afraid of attacks. Police stations are guarded by militiamen.
> 
> "Without revolutionaries, the police are zeros," said a Souq al-Jomaa resident, 24-year-old Ahmed Hajaji, standing next to the local police station, where a large sign over the entrance read, "No to revenge, yes to forgiveness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias (VIDEO)
Click to expand...


This is the ebb and flow of Islamic tribes fighting for control of the other tribes.  The land?

It's just land to the tribes. They never created the country. No country controlled by Arabs has been created by Arabs.  They've been created by incoming and outgoing Empires.

These are tribes fighting inter-tribal warfare to gain subjugation of all the other tribes in the arena.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI, Libya -- One revolutionary militia controls the airport. Others carve up neighborhoods of the Libyan capital into fiefdoms. They clash in the streets, terrifying residents. They hold detainees in makeshift prisons where torture is said to be rampant.
> 
> As Libya on Friday marks the one-year anniversary of the start of the uprising against Moammar Gadhafi, hundreds of armed militias are the real power on the ground in the country, and the government that took the longtime strongman's place is largely impotent, unable to rein in fighters, rebuild decimated institutions or stop widespread corruption.
> 
> The revolutionary militias contend they are Libya's heroes  the ones who drove Gadhafi from power and who now keep security in the streets at a time when the police and military are all but nonexistent. They insist they won't give up their weapons to a government that is too weak, too corrupt and, they fear, too willing to let elements of the old dictatorship back into positions of power.
> 
> "I am fed up," said the commander of a militia of fighters from the western mountain town of Zintan who control Tripoli's airport. Al-Mukhtar al-Akhdar says Libya's politicians unfairly blame the militias for the country's chaos while doing nothing to bring real change.
> 
> They believe "revolutionaries have no place in Libya now," said al-Akhdar, who was once a tour company owner in Zintan until he took up arms against Gadhafi and now sports a military uniform. "We paid a very heavy price in the revolution, not for the sake of a seat or authority, but for the sake of freedoms and rights."
> 
> As a result, Libya has been flipped upside down, from a country where all power was in the hands of one man, Gadhafi, to one where it has been broken up into hundreds of different hands, each taking its own decisions. The National Transitional Council, which officially rules the country, is struggling to incorporate the militias into the military and police, while trying to get the economy back on its feet and reshape government ministries, courts and other institutions hollowed out under Gadhafi.
> 
> In one sign of the lack of control, Finance Minister Hassan Zaklam admitted that millions of dollars from Gadhafi family assets returned to Libya by European countries  a potentially key source of revenue  have flowed right back out of Libya, stolen by corrupt officials and smuggled out in suitcases through the ports.
> 
> "The money comes for transit only," Zaklam said in a Feb. 6 interview on Libya state TV. He threatened to resign if the government didn't impose control over ports or stop unfreezing the assets. "I can't be a clown," he said.
> 
> Government spokesman Ashur Shamis blamed revolutionaries in charge of ports and middle- and lower-ranking bureaucrats from the old regime who still retain their posts, known among Libyans as the "Green Snakes," after the signature color of Gadhafi's rule.
> 
> At the airport, al-Akhdar blamed customs employees and said his fighters are keeping a closer eye on them  but he insisted stopping smuggling was the police and military's responsibility.
> 
> The militias, meanwhile, are accused of acting like vigilantes and armed gangs, fighting over turf and taking the law into their own hands. Many run private prisons, detaining criminals, suspected former regime members or simply people who run afoul of the fighters.
> 
> In a report Wednesday, London-based Amnesty International said it found prisoners had been tortured or abused in all but one of 11 militia-run facilities it visited. Detainees told the group they had been beaten for hours with whips, cables and plastic hoses and given electrical shocks.
> 
> At least 12 detainees have died since September after torture, it said.
> 
> The militias arose during last year's 8-month-long civil war against Gadhafi.
> 
> Soon after anti-regime protests first erupted nationwide on Feb. 17, 2011, Libya's second largest city Benghazi and the rest of the eastern half of the country threw off rule from Tripoli. As Gadhafi clamped down in the west, Libyan citizens formed local militias based around a city, town or even neighborhood, taking up arms to fight alongside breakaway army units.
> 
> Backed by NATO airstrikes, the militias swept into Tripoli in August, driving out Gadhafi. The militias then were at the forefront of battles for the last regime strongholds, ending with Gadhafi's capture and killing in October at the hands of a militia from Misrata, a city east of Tripoli that endured one of the bloodiest sieges of the civil war.
> 
> Since then, militias have carved up neighborhoods in Tripoli and other cities, establishing their hold with checkpoints at the entrances. There are efforts between them to cooperate: If a brigade chases a suspect into another district, it must seek clearance from the local militia, said Jalal al-Gelani, the deputy police chief of the Tripoli neighborhood of Souq al-Jomaa.
> 
> But borders often overlap. Disputes break out over personnel or relatives from one militia detained by another. Then the weapons come out and shooting begins. There are usually no casualties, but the battles terrify residents. In January, a gunbattle between Misrata and Zintan revolutionaries erupted in a turf fight over a sports complex. The two sides fired rifles and heavy machine guns, shattering the complex's windows and damaging cars.
> 
> The police have been eclipsed. When Tripoli fell, most police fled and shed their uniforms, fearful of revenge attacks. The police chief in Souq al-Jomaa never came back. Now there are about 200 police in the Souq al-Jomaa station, about a tenth of the number of militiamen, said one officer, Mustafa al-Darnawi.
> 
> At night, policemen vanish, afraid of attacks. Police stations are guarded by militiamen.
> 
> "Without revolutionaries, the police are zeros," said a Souq al-Jomaa resident, 24-year-old Ahmed Hajaji, standing next to the local police station, where a large sign over the entrance read, "No to revenge, yes to forgiveness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias (VIDEO)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRIPOLI, Libya -- One revolutionary militia controls the airport. Others carve up neighborhoods of the Libyan capital into fiefdoms. They clash in the streets, terrifying residents. They hold detainees in makeshift prisons where torture is said to be rampant.
> 
> As Libya on Friday marks the one-year anniversary of the start of the uprising against Moammar Gadhafi, hundreds of armed militias are the real power on the ground in the country, and the government that took the longtime strongman's place is largely impotent, unable to rein in fighters, rebuild decimated institutions or stop widespread corruption.
> 
> The revolutionary militias contend they are Libya's heroes  the ones who drove Gadhafi from power and who now keep security in the streets at a time when the police and military are all but nonexistent. They insist they won't give up their weapons to a government that is too weak, too corrupt and, they fear, too willing to let elements of the old dictatorship back into positions of power.
> 
> "I am fed up," said the commander of a militia of fighters from the western mountain town of Zintan who control Tripoli's airport. Al-Mukhtar al-Akhdar says Libya's politicians unfairly blame the militias for the country's chaos while doing nothing to bring real change.
> 
> They believe "revolutionaries have no place in Libya now," said al-Akhdar, who was once a tour company owner in Zintan until he took up arms against Gadhafi and now sports a military uniform. "We paid a very heavy price in the revolution, not for the sake of a seat or authority, but for the sake of freedoms and rights."
> 
> As a result, Libya has been flipped upside down, from a country where all power was in the hands of one man, Gadhafi, to one where it has been broken up into hundreds of different hands, each taking its own decisions. The National Transitional Council, which officially rules the country, is struggling to incorporate the militias into the military and police, while trying to get the economy back on its feet and reshape government ministries, courts and other institutions hollowed out under Gadhafi.
> 
> In one sign of the lack of control, Finance Minister Hassan Zaklam admitted that millions of dollars from Gadhafi family assets returned to Libya by European countries  a potentially key source of revenue  have flowed right back out of Libya, stolen by corrupt officials and smuggled out in suitcases through the ports.
> 
> "The money comes for transit only," Zaklam said in a Feb. 6 interview on Libya state TV. He threatened to resign if the government didn't impose control over ports or stop unfreezing the assets. "I can't be a clown," he said.
> 
> Government spokesman Ashur Shamis blamed revolutionaries in charge of ports and middle- and lower-ranking bureaucrats from the old regime who still retain their posts, known among Libyans as the "Green Snakes," after the signature color of Gadhafi's rule.
> 
> At the airport, al-Akhdar blamed customs employees and said his fighters are keeping a closer eye on them  but he insisted stopping smuggling was the police and military's responsibility.
> 
> The militias, meanwhile, are accused of acting like vigilantes and armed gangs, fighting over turf and taking the law into their own hands. Many run private prisons, detaining criminals, suspected former regime members or simply people who run afoul of the fighters.
> 
> In a report Wednesday, London-based Amnesty International said it found prisoners had been tortured or abused in all but one of 11 militia-run facilities it visited. Detainees told the group they had been beaten for hours with whips, cables and plastic hoses and given electrical shocks.
> 
> At least 12 detainees have died since September after torture, it said.
> 
> The militias arose during last year's 8-month-long civil war against Gadhafi.
> 
> Soon after anti-regime protests first erupted nationwide on Feb. 17, 2011, Libya's second largest city Benghazi and the rest of the eastern half of the country threw off rule from Tripoli. As Gadhafi clamped down in the west, Libyan citizens formed local militias based around a city, town or even neighborhood, taking up arms to fight alongside breakaway army units.
> 
> Backed by NATO airstrikes, the militias swept into Tripoli in August, driving out Gadhafi. The militias then were at the forefront of battles for the last regime strongholds, ending with Gadhafi's capture and killing in October at the hands of a militia from Misrata, a city east of Tripoli that endured one of the bloodiest sieges of the civil war.
> 
> Since then, militias have carved up neighborhoods in Tripoli and other cities, establishing their hold with checkpoints at the entrances. There are efforts between them to cooperate: If a brigade chases a suspect into another district, it must seek clearance from the local militia, said Jalal al-Gelani, the deputy police chief of the Tripoli neighborhood of Souq al-Jomaa.
> 
> But borders often overlap. Disputes break out over personnel or relatives from one militia detained by another. Then the weapons come out and shooting begins. There are usually no casualties, but the battles terrify residents. In January, a gunbattle between Misrata and Zintan revolutionaries erupted in a turf fight over a sports complex. The two sides fired rifles and heavy machine guns, shattering the complex's windows and damaging cars.
> 
> The police have been eclipsed. When Tripoli fell, most police fled and shed their uniforms, fearful of revenge attacks. The police chief in Souq al-Jomaa never came back. Now there are about 200 police in the Souq al-Jomaa station, about a tenth of the number of militiamen, said one officer, Mustafa al-Darnawi.
> 
> At night, policemen vanish, afraid of attacks. Police stations are guarded by militiamen.
> 
> "Without revolutionaries, the police are zeros," said a Souq al-Jomaa resident, 24-year-old Ahmed Hajaji, standing next to the local police station, where a large sign over the entrance read, "No to revenge, yes to forgiveness."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias (VIDEO)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the ebb and flow of Islamic tribes fighting for control of the other tribes.  The land?
> 
> It's just land to the tribes. They never created the country. No country controlled by Arabs has been created by Arabs.  They've been created by incoming and outgoing Empires.
> 
> These are tribes fighting inter-tribal warfare to gain subjugation of all the other tribes in the arena.
Click to expand...


The thing is we both know Libya has oil and has the full cooperation of the international community, do you think they will be able to turn this thing around?


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libya: A Year After Uprising Against Moammar Gadhafi, Power Held By Hundreds Of Militias (VIDEO)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the ebb and flow of Islamic tribes fighting for control of the other tribes.  The land?
> 
> It's just land to the tribes. They never created the country. No country controlled by Arabs has been created by Arabs.  They've been created by incoming and outgoing Empires.
> 
> These are tribes fighting inter-tribal warfare to gain subjugation of all the other tribes in the arena.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The thing is we both know Libya has oil and has the full cooperation of the international community, do you think they will be able to turn this thing around?
Click to expand...


In the same way Ghadaffi turned it around when it was his turn.  This is how we will see if there's any difference from back then to now.

If it's a dictator tribal leader controlling the other tribes by subjugation?  No difference. 

If it produces a Democracy?  I just don't see it happening HG.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the ebb and flow of Islamic tribes fighting for control of the other tribes.  The land?
> 
> It's just land to the tribes. They never created the country. No country controlled by Arabs has been created by Arabs.  They've been created by incoming and outgoing Empires.
> 
> These are tribes fighting inter-tribal warfare to gain subjugation of all the other tribes in the arena.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is we both know Libya has oil and has the full cooperation of the international community, do you think they will be able to turn this thing around?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the same way Ghadaffi turned it around when it was his turn.  This is how we will see if there's any difference from back then to now.
> 
> If it's a dictator tribal leader controlling the other tribes by subjugation?  No difference.
> 
> If it produces a Democracy?  I just don't see it happening HG.
Click to expand...


All I can ask for is for the Libyans to have a country that is semi friendly towards the West and Israel, friendly towards its neighbors, and not be a safe house for Al Qaeda types.


----------



## Ropey

High_Gravity said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is we both know Libya has oil and has the full cooperation of the international community, do you think they will be able to turn this thing around?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same way Ghadaffi turned it around when it was his turn.  This is how we will see if there's any difference from back then to now.
> 
> If it's a dictator tribal leader controlling the other tribes by subjugation?  No difference.
> 
> If it produces a Democracy?  I just don't see it happening HG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *All* I can ask for is for the Libyans to have a country that is semi friendly towards the West and Israel, friendly towards its neighbors, and not be a safe house for Al Qaeda types.
Click to expand...


I hear you but that's a lot of asking.


----------



## JStone

High_Gravity said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is we both know Libya has oil and has the full cooperation of the international community, do you think they will be able to turn this thing around?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same way Ghadaffi turned it around when it was his turn.  This is how we will see if there's any difference from back then to now.
> 
> If it's a dictator tribal leader controlling the other tribes by subjugation?  No difference.
> 
> If it produces a Democracy?  I just don't see it happening HG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All I can ask for is for the Libyans to have a country that is semi friendly towards the West and Israel, friendly towards its neighbors, and not be a safe house for Al Qaeda types.
Click to expand...


  




The religion of peace allah sez to hate and kill the infidel.

Quran 60:4: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya Free Elections In Misrata First Since Fall Of Gaddafi 








> MISRATA, Libya (AP)  Four months after the death of Moammar Gadhafi, the people of Misrata were frustrated by stalled reforms. They played a key role in overthrowing the Libyan dictator of 42 years, and were impatient to see the changes they shed blood for.
> 
> Revolutionaries accused the self-appointed city council that came to power early in the uprising of deeply rooted corruption, allegations which the council head denied. They staged a sit-in on the council's steps, got the members to resign and call new elections, which were held on Monday.
> 
> The vote was the first experiment in real democracy anywhere in Libya, and the fact that it happened here only demonstrated the newfound clout of Misrata, Libya's third-largest city, on the national political scene.
> 
> It was also another example of how Libya is splintering into largely autonomous city-states, with powerful local militias and emerging local governments that at best have loose ties to the Tripoli-based central government known as the National Transitional Council.
> 
> "This is a turn in Libya from suppression and dictatorship to democracy," said Abdullah al-Kabir, a political commentator in Misrata. "Libya has never known real elections."
> 
> So far, cities like Misrata are pushing ahead even faster with the transition to democracy than the national government is.
> 
> The National Transitional Council says elections for the 200-member national assembly will be held in June but no date has been set. The assembly will name a new government and select a panel to write a constitution.
> 
> But many Libyans are frustrated with what they call a slow pace of political transformation. The coastal city of Benghazi, which was the rebel capital during the uprising, has also sacked its council and called for elections next month.
> 
> The rebellious coastal city of Misrata, with about 300,000 residents, suffered horribly during last year's revolution. Gadhafi's forces shelled the city for weeks, and fierce street battles left thousands dead, missing or injured. Mothers sent their sons to the front lines, while selling their gold jewelry to finance arms purchases.
> 
> The inexperienced but tenacious Misrata rebels managed to push Gadhafi's forces out of the city in late April, a turning point that left the regime increasingly isolated in the capital and a few other cities in the western half of Libya.
> 
> Then the Misratan rebels pushed out of the city. Working with insurgents from the western mountains along the border with Tunisia, they converged from two sides on the regime stronghold of Tripoli and brought the capital down in a few days.
> 
> A few months later in October, it was rebels from Misrata who captured Gadhafi in his hometown and final stronghold of Sirte and killed him. They hauled him back to Misrata and put his rotting body on public display in a vegetable cooler for days, while the city's residents gleefully lined up to see it.
> 
> Reminders of those vicious battles were all around Monday as Misratans gathered at the polls to vote for the 28-member local council.
> 
> Banners hung on the walls of bullet-gouged houses, which were scrawled with the names of martyrs who died during the uprising. Voters wrapped themselves in Libyan flags as they stood in line to cast their ballot.
> 
> Residents of the Mediterranean coastal city had grown increasingly impatient with a lack of guidance from the National Transitional Council based in Tripoli, 125 miles (200 kilometers) to the northwest. The council was supposed to be the country's central authority during the transition period.
> 
> Misratans drew once again on their independent streak and decided to forge ahead with a local election on their own.
> 
> "The (city) council was not up to the level of what the city accomplished during the revolution," said Abdel-Basit Boum Zariq, the deputy head of the city's human rights commission.
> 
> At one school where voters cast their ballots, the smell of fresh paint wafted through the halls. Gamela al-Tohami, the school director, waved her purple ink-stained finger which has become the universal sign for voting across the Middle East. She said Gadhafi forces shelled the school during the fighting and only recently holes in the walls that had been used by snipers had been refilled.
> 
> "This is the first time we have seen real democracy in my entire life. Before we were being monitored and terrorized," she said.
> 
> Even before Gadhafi came to power in September 1969, elections were widely rigged.
> 
> During Gadhafi's era, the closest thing to democracy were elections held for local bodies called "people's committees" but the vote was generally regarded as a farce to rubber-stamp regime candidates.
> 
> As Gadhafi's control began to disintegrate last year, councils composed of judges, lawyers and businessmen were formed in cities around the country. But many council members were members of the old regime with little legitimacy.
> 
> After the fighting died down in Misrata, many residents grew angry at what they said was corruption among the council members. Tarek bin Hameda, one candidate running for city council, said the outgoing council was not transparent.



Libya Free Elections In Misrata First Since Fall Of Gaddafi


----------



## Ropey

I would so like to see a full tribal party system and cooperation between the parties for the better of the country, not simply the individual tribes attempting to gain total control over the others.

It could happen indeed. I wait with bated breath to see just what these Al Qaida and Muslim Brotherhood groups will do.

al-Qaeda/Muslim Brotherhood Strongmen in Control of Libya







At the moment, it does not look so good, but who knows.


----------



## High_Gravity

Ropey said:


> I would so like to see a full tribal party system and cooperation between the parties for the better of the country, not simply the individual tribes attempting to gain total control over the others.
> 
> It could happen indeed. I wait with bated breath to see just what these Al Qaida and Muslim Brotherhood groups will do.
> 
> al-Qaeda/Muslim Brotherhood Strongmen in Control of Libya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, it does not look so good, but who knows.



Sheesh, didn't the US torture one of those guys at 1 point? man, these clowns could end up being 10 times worse than Gaddafi.


----------



## High_Gravity

Muammar Gaddafi Dead: Mansour Iddhow, Former Servant, Recounts Colonel's Final Days 








> He was one of the last people to see Muammar Gaddafi alive. He was there when the Libyan dictator's convoy was struck by NATO and when he was captured by rebel forces. Now Mansour Iddhow, the former head of Libya's homeland security, has spoken from a Libyan prison with Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley about his former boss' final days.
> 
> According to Iddhow, Libya's former leader had no escape plan. After the fall of Tripoli into rebel hands, Gaddafi saw no other option than to head for his home town Sirte. "Gaddafi didn't plan anything, nor did his son Motassim, nor the head of security," Iddhow said. "From the moment we arrived in Sirte, Abdullah Senussi and I advised him to leave because it was a small city and could easily be blocked. It was like a room, with nowhere to go. Staying was suicide. But Gaddafi did not listen to us."
> 
> Iddhow's account echoes earlier statements made by Gaddafi's driver Huneish Nasr and bodyguard Mansur Dao.
> 
> Huneish Nasr, Gaddafi's driver for 30 years, told The Guardian in an interview that "Gaddafi wasn't scared, but he didn't seem to know what to do."
> 
> Nasr told the Guardian:
> 
> Everything was exploding. The revolutionaries were coming for us. He wasn't scared, but he didn't seem to know what to do. It was the only time I ever saw him like that.
> Bodyguard Mansur Dao, who was also traveling in the convoy, told the Associated Press that Gaddafi was not leading the battle in those final days; instead, his sons were in charge. "We were scared of the airstrikes and the shelling," Dao said, adding that he did not believe that Gaddafi was afraid.
> 
> Gaddafi was captured on October 20, 2011, after NATO bombed the convoy in which he was travelling on the outskirts of the city of Sirte. Gaddafi was captured and later died in rebel custody. According to the Associated Press, Gaddafi and his entourage were "largely cut off from the world while on the run, living in abandoned homes without TV, phones or electricity, using candles for light," and the ousted leader spent his time "reading, jotting down notes or brewing tea on a coal stove."



Muammar Gaddafi Dead: Mansour Iddhow, Former Servant, Recounts Colonel's Final Days


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya leadership apologizes for destruction of World War II graves








> Libya's interim leadership has apologized after armed men destroyed the graves of British and Italian soldiers killed during World War II, al-Jazeera reports.
> 
> A smashed gravestone in Benghazi. (YouTube) Footage of the attack posted to YouTube shows the men systematically kicking over headstones and smashing a metal and stone cross with a sledgehammer in broad daylight.
> 
> This is a grave of a Christian, one man says as he uproots a headstone from the ground. These are dogs, another says.  Come and see the inscription on this ... There is Hebrew writing on it, says a third, in reference to a headstone.
> 
> [We] will confront this matter and, in line with Libyan law, will pursue those people who committed this act, the Transitional National Council said in a statement on its Web site. The council has led the country since last years uprising toppled Moammar Gaddafi. This action does not reflect Libyan public opinion because Islam calls for respect for other religions.
> 
> The attacks took place at two cemeteries in Benghazi, city in the eastern part of the country where British and Commonwealth troops fought against German and Italian forces during the war. More than a thousand Commonwealth soldiers are buried at the cemeteries. Hundreds of headstones were damaged.
> 
> In a statement on its Web site, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission confirmed that both the Benghazi War Cemetery and the Benghazi British Military Cemetery were attacked over the weekend, and said they would be fully restored, though this could take some time.
> 
> Australian officials on Monday said they were appalled and disgusted by these reports, and were working to determine how many Australian soldiers headstones had been affected, the AFP reports.
> 
> A spokesman for the British foreign office told BlogPost via e-mail that officials from the British embassy in Tripoli had visited the cemeteries, raised the issue with the Libyan foreign affairs ministry and Benghazi police chief and received an apology from the transitional council.
> 
> A British foreign office spokesman told al-Jazeera there was no evidence that the incident was linked to anger over the recent burning of copies of the Koran on a NATO air base in Afghanistan.



Libya leadership apologizes for destruction of World War II graves - BlogPost - The Washington Post


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya restores diplomatic ties with Iraq



> Baghdad - Libya has restored full diplomatic relations with Iraq and plans to send an ambassador to Baghdad more than eight years after cutting off ties, Iraq's deputy foreign minister said on Friday.
> 
> "There was a delegation that came here, and they said that this decision is under discussion at the foreign ministry in Libya and this step will be taken soon, and they took that step yesterday," Labid Abbawi told AFP.
> 
> Abbawi was referring to a visit to Baghdad by then Libyan interim premier Mahmud Jibril in October.
> 
> Libya announced in June 2003 it was breaking off diplomatic ties with Iraq and closing its embassy shortly after the US-led invasion of the country earlier that year.
> 
> American authorities had said at the time foreign diplomats in Iraq no longer enjoyed diplomatic immunity or any of the privileges they were accorded under their accreditation to now-executed dictator Saddam Hussein's regime.



Libya restores diplomatic ties with Iraq | News24


----------



## High_Gravity

ICC pushes Libya for Saif al-Islam Gadhafi








> THE HAGUE, Netherlands, April 6 (UPI) -- The International Criminal Court demanded Libya give up ex-dictator Moammar Gadhafi's son Saif al-Islam Gadhafi so he can be tried for crimes against humanity.
> 
> The 39-year-old London School of Economics doctoral graduate has been held largely without access to the outside world since his Nov. 19, 2011, capture by post-revolution Libyan fighters as he tried to flee to neighboring Niger. His father had been killed a month earlier.
> 
> "The brutal death of Moammar Gadhafi deprived the Libyan people of their right to justice, and their right to the truth. It would be a travesty for the prospects of a free and fair Libyan state if the same were to occur to his son," lawyers Xavier-Jean Keita and Melinda Taylor, appointed by the ICC to represent Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, said in a statement.
> 
> Gadhafi has been kept in a "legal black hole," held for 139 days in "total isolation" except for visits from officials, the lawyers said.
> 
> Libyan authorities say they intend to put Gadhafi on trial, but they have charged him with "trivial allegations," such as failure to license his camels, and with irregularities concerning fish farms, the lawyers said.
> 
> By contrast, the permanent tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands, wants to prosecute him for crimes against humanity and issued an arrest warrant against Moammar Gadhafi's former heir apparent last June, they said.
> 
> A U.N. Security Council resolution requires Gadhafi be delivered to the court, and ICC judges urged Libya's rulers Wednesday to "proceed immediately with the surrender."
> 
> "At no point have the Libyan authorities been legally justified in their failure to surrender him to the ICC," the lawyers said Thursday.
> 
> ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said if Libyan authorities can adequately explain their plans, the court court would let Libya proceed with its case.
> 
> "According to the rules, Libya has the primacy to prosecute Saif, so if they present this to the International Criminal Court judges, probably they will get an approval," Moreno-Ocampo said.
> 
> "That's the system. The system is the primacy for the national judges," he said.



Read more: ICC pushes Libya for Saif al-Islam Gadhafi - UPI.com


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## Artevelde

He should be prosecuted in Libya by the Libyans and not in that joke of a court in the Hague.


----------



## High_Gravity

Artevelde said:


> He should be prosecuted in Libya by the Libyans and not in that joke of a court in the Hague.



Oh I agree, to be honest I am surprised he is still alive considering the hospitable treatment his pops recieved.


----------



## High_Gravity

Libya is a lure for migrants, where exploitation waits








> TRIPOLI, Libya  Ahmed Mostafa and his friends paid thousands of dollars among them to get to Libya recently, traveling with gangs of smugglers through Western Africa. It was to be their escape from the sprawling slums of Ghana's capital city, Accra.
> 
> Mostafa had heard rumors of arbitrary arrests and Libyan lynch mobs during the war last year in which longtime Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi was ousted and killed. But he was counting on luck: "It was not something I really thought about," he said. "I thought I would come and secure some work. Then send some money to my family."
> 
> Instead, he and his 10 friends wound up in a government-run prison, Twoshi Detention Center, sleeping on small foam mattresses, dozens to a room. A militia had spied them two weeks earlier walking along a dusty road in the country's north and detained them. They remain in the prison, uncharged and without legal representation.
> 
> In Libya, illegal migration is once again picking up, conducted through two primary trafficking corridors in the east and west of the country. A stream of Africans  Somalis, Eritreans, Nigerians, Sudanese, Malians  dreaming of a new life have made the perilous trip to Libya. But as turmoil continues to reign through much of the country, many of these migrants are being rounded up and detained, in some cases, to be exploited as forced laborers.
> 
> "The going rate for a migrant is anywhere from 260 to 800 Libyan dinars," or about $210 to $645, said Jeremy Haslam, chief of the Libya mission for the International Organization for Migration. "One of the problems is that many detention facilities are not currently under state control, instead administered by local councils and even private parties. The latter may involve organized crime, running human trafficking operations  modern-day slavery."
> 
> At some detention facilities, staff members lease out black African detainees to employers, who make a contribution to the jails to help cover costs. Other migrants are said to be sold outright to employers.
> 
> "In some circumstances, it can appear like a legitimate transaction but is essentially exploitative," Haslam said. "And it's widespread."
> 
> Migrants often "work off" the debt of their sale, Haslam said, and have no chance to negotiate hours or rates or the kind of work they do.
> 
> "With no status in the country, the cycle can continue indefinitely, with the migrant re-traded once the employer no longer needs their services," he said.
> 
> Libya's borders have long been haunted by smuggling rings that ferry drugs, weapons and migrants through an intricate web of clandestine trading routes. The country's relative wealth, gleaned mainly from its oil industry  providing an annual per capita income of $12,000, the highest in Africa  has ensured its place as a destination for illegal immigrants.



Libya is a lure for migrants, where exploitation waits - latimes.com


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## High_Gravity

Abdel Basset al-Megrahi Dead: Lockerbie Bomber Dies After Battle With Cancer








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- He was the embodiment of one of modern Libya's darkest chapters  a man synonymous with horrifying scenes of wreckage, broken families and a plane that fell out of the sky a generation ago. His name, Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, was little known compared to the single word that his deeds represented: Lockerbie.
> 
> Seven months after his patron dictator Moammar Gadhafi was slain in a revolution that began a new chapter for his homeland, al-Megrahi died Sunday of cancer, leaving behind countless unanswered questions about the midair attack in 1988 that blew up Pan Am flight 103 over Scotland. All 259 people on board  mostly Americans  and 11 on the ground were killed.
> 
> "I am an innocent man," al-Megrahi insisted, most recently in his final interview in December, in the final stages of prostate cancer. "I am about to die and I ask now to be left in peace with my family."
> 
> But his death at age 60 leaves no peace for families who still question his guilt and whether others in one of history's deadliest terror attacks went unpunished. Scotland's government said it would continue to investigate the bombing even after al-Megrahi's death.
> 
> "He holds the key to what actually took place in Pan Am 103," said Bert Ammerman, whose brother was killed in the bombing. "He knows what other individuals were involved and, more importantly, what other countries were involved."
> 
> His attorneys had argued that the Libyan intelligence officer was scapegoated to protect the real culprits: Palestinians acting on the behest of Iran.
> 
> Al-Megrahi's death comes about three years after Scottish authorities released him on humanitarian grounds, to the outrage of victims' relatives. At the time, doctors predicted he had only three months to live after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
> 
> Anger over his release was further stoked by the hero's welcome he received on his arrival in Libya  and by subsequent accusations that London had sought his release to protect business interests in oil-rich Libya. Britain and Scotland denied the allegations.
> 
> In the months ahead of his release, Tripoli put pressure on Britain, warning that if the ailing al-Megrahi died in a Scottish prison, all British commercial activity in Libya would be cut off and a wave of demonstrations would erupt outside British embassies, according to leaked U.S. diplomatic memos. The Libyans even implied "that the welfare of U.K. diplomats and citizens in Libya would be at risk," the memos say.



Abdel Basset al-Megrahi Dead: Lockerbie Bomber Dies After Battle With Cancer


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## High_Gravity

Libyas Invisible Forces









> TRIPOLIIf you didn't know what lay behind the gates of the vast structure in Janzour, just outside the Libyan capital, you'd probably assume it was the Libyan Naval Academy. That, after all, is what it used to be. But drive past the empty main building and into the former living quarters, and you won't see any sailors. Laundry hangs from the balconies. Children play in the dust below. Women in black abayas walk up and down the concrete plazas, while elderly men in long white gowns smoke cigarettes and stare at the sea.
> 
> Instead of junior officers, the naval academy now houses more than 2,000 refugees, a fraction of the 70,000 people displaced by the Libyan revolution and scattered across the country. Most of this camp's residents come from Tawergha, a town whose inhabitants had the misfortune to be caught between soldiers loyal to Muammar Qaddafi
> 
> and the anti- Qaddafi militia forces in the nearby city of Misrata last summer. A few residentsno one agrees how manyjoined the regime's soldiers, and now the Misrata militia doesn't want any of them back. To be precise, the militia has threatened to murder anyone who returns and has bombarded some of their homes for good measure.
> 
> You won't learn much about Janzour from the Libyan media. Although Libyan journalists have filmed interviews at the camp, their reporting has yet to be broadcast, and no one is quite sure why. The journalists speak of different prioritiesthe country is preparing for electionsbut those in the camp blame pressure from the Misrata militia or racism: Most of the refugees are black. Lack of coverage means lack of interest. Nobody in power feels any urgency to help them.
> 
> And thus the Tawerghans remain, semi-invisible, in limbo, like so many other things in Libya, where power is still held by a Transitional National Council and a provisional government; where elections are scheduled for June; where decisions are suspended "until we have a government" and would-be investors hang around the lobby of the Radisson, drinking mint tea and waiting to see what will happen next.
> 
> This might be a good thing: In a society where everything has been controlled for more than four decades, a vacuum can be creative. Civil society, unknown in Libya until the revolution last year, has begun to reformulate, and civic groups have emerged to help care for refugees and to lobby on their behalf. The brand-new Libyan Housing Authority, a charity, helped arrange for journalists to go to Janzour. The camp itself has elected a spokesman, and tribal leaders are negotiating with the Misratans about a possible return.
> 
> But just as a vacuum can produce constructive forces, it can produce destructive ones, too. Janzour has been attacked more than once by armed militia members from Misrata. In a recent raid, five people were killed.
> 
> What is true of Janzour is true of everything else: The Libyan media hangs in a legal and institutional vacuum. While in Tripoli this weekI was visiting on behalf of the Legatum InstituteI went to at least three institutions that thought they were responsible for state-owned media, and I spoke with one state television boss who felt beholden to none of them. Dozens of newspapers and radio and television stations have emerged, as has a new breed of citizen journalist: popular talk-show hosts who have never spoken on the radio before, writers whose work previously appeared in anonymous blogs.
> 
> Would-be regulators are proliferating almost as quickly. Wanting fair elections, the transitional authorities passed a law mandating equal coverage to all 2,000 parliamentary candidates. Some think this means that anyone who airs an interview with one candidate is legally obligated to cover the other 1,999. Hoping to prevent regime loyalists from returning to public life, the transitional authorities have also banned any criticism of the revolution. But the law they have written is so vague it could imply imprisonment for anyone critical of the current government, or perhaps anyone who discusses revolutionary excesses in places such as Misrata. In that climate, it's easy to see why Libyan reporters might not want to write about the refugees in Janzour.



Libya&rsquo;s future will be determined by more than elections. - Slate Magazine


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## High_Gravity

Some new friends we have over there.

Bomb Targets U.S. Mission in Libya



> BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters) - A bomb exploded outside the U.S. diplomatic mission in the Libyan city of Benghazi overnight, an attack that could be retaliation for the killing, in a U.S. drone strike, of al Qaeda's Libyan second-in-command.
> 
> An improvised explosive device was dropped from a passing vehicle onto the road outside the mission, in an upmarket area of central Benghazi. It exploded moments after, slightly damaging the building's gate, U.S. and Libyan officials said.
> 
> Washington had confirmed a few hours before the attack that a U.S.-operated drone had killed Abu Yahya al-Libi, a Libyan-born cleric and senior al Qaeda operative, in Pakistan.
> 
> The U.S. State Department said it had asked Libyan authorities to increase security around U.S. facilities.
> 
> "We deplore the attack on our diplomatic mission in Benghazi," State Department spokesman Mark Toner told a news briefing.
> 
> Toner said a local guard reported that an attack was underway against one of the Benghazi compound's perimeter walls and warned diplomatic staff to take cover.
> 
> The bombing will revive concerns about the lack of security in Libya, where last year Muammar Gaddafi was overthrown in an uprising supported by NATO air power.
> 
> The fragile government is still struggling to restore stability after the revolt and arms and explosives looted from Gaddafi's arsenals are easily available.
> 
> Toner said Washington was awaiting results from an investigation by the Libyan government, but had no reason to suspect the attack was retaliation for Libi's killing.
> 
> Some security analysts disagreed: "The possibility that this act took place because of what happened to Abu Yahya is, in my personal opinion, a very strong one," said Noman Benotman, a Libyan former Islamist who is now an expert on militant groups.



http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/06/06/world/africa/06reuters-libya-attack-us.html?ref=world


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## High_Gravity

Libyans Rally Before First post-Gaddafi Election



> (TRIPOLI, Libya)  Libyan Islamists and their liberal rivals have held their last rallies just before a deadline to stop campaigning in the first national elections that follow the overthrow of dictator Moammar Gaddafi are to be held.
> 
> The Saturday vote for the 200-member transitional parliament follows a ruinous 2011 civil war. Nine months after it ended in October, the country is deeply divided.
> 
> Late Thursday, a motorcade carrying posters of the Alliance of National Forces, led by secular-leaning former premier Mahmoud Jibril, took to the streets. The National Front, which descends from a G Gaddafi -era opposition movement, lit the sky over the capital with fireworks. A party affiliated with Libyas Muslim Brotherhood and another Islamist group are also considered top contenders.



Read more: Libyans Rally Before First post-Gaddafi Election | World | TIME.com


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## High_Gravity

Libyan Election Hints at Blow to Islamists



> (TRIPOLI, Libya)  Libyas first nationwide elections in nearly five decades brought hints Sunday of an Arab Spring precedent: Western-leaning parties making strides over Islamist rivals hoping to follow the same paths to power as in neighbors Egypt and Tunisia.
> 
> While final results from Saturdays parliamentary election could still be days away under a two-tier selection system, unofficial and partial counts from Libyas biggest cities suggested liberal factions were leading the Muslim Brotherhood and allies in a possible first major setback to their political surge following last years uprisings.
> 
> If the Libyan trend holds  which is still far from certain  it would challenge the narrative of rising Islamist power since the fall of Western-allied regimes from Tunis to Cairo. It also could display the different political dynamics in Libya, where tribal loyalties run deep and groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood at times cooperated with the rule of Moammar Gadhafi.
> 
> Anyone with past ties with old regime is hated, even despised, said Fathi al-Fadhali, a pro-Islamist Libyan political analyst who lived in exile for 30 years. Any political names associated with the regime are immediately politically burnt by that association.
> 
> Ultimately, the 200-seat parliament will face the task of forming a government  which could become tests of strength for Islamists and secular forces over questions such as womens rights, the extent of traditional Islamic law and relations with the U.S. and other Western nations that helped bring down Gadhafi.
> 
> U.S. President Barack Obama congratulated Libyans on the vote, calling it another milestone on their extraordinary transition to democracy. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon praised the people of Libya and the candidates who contested the election in a peaceful, democratic spirit, according to his spokesman.
> 
> Now, the ballots have to be portioned out according to two categories: Eighty seats are set aside for party lists, and the remaining 120 for individual independent candidates.
> 
> In the first group, a liberal alliance led by the former rebel prime minister Mahmoud Jibril appeared to hold more than half the seats in the capital Tripoli and the revolution stronghold of Benghazi, according to several party representatives. They spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief media.
> 
> In western Libya, where Jibrils tribe, the Warfalla, is prominent, his party also was on the top in the early counting, the political officials said. In Libyas third-largest city, Misrata  which was besieged by Gadhafi forces for weeks  an upstart faction of local politicians appeared to hold the lead in another possible blow to Islamists.
> 
> Faisal Krekshi, secretary general of Jibrils Alliance of National Forces, said the results were based on reports by party representatives at ballot counting centers across the vast desert nation of 6 million people. Even officials from rival Islamist parties  the Muslim Brotherhoods Justice and Construction Party and the Islamist Al-Watan  described Jibrils alliance as the biggest winner in the race for the 80 party seats.




Read more: Libyan Election Hints at Blow to Islamists | World | TIME.com


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## High_Gravity

Why the Islamists Are Not Winning in Libya








> Libya seems relentlessly committed to proving the pessimists wrong. When last years revolution quickly evolved into a brutal civil war, the international community  and indeed many Libyans  warned of a quagmire down the road. God is great served as the rebel battle cry in the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi, and the jihadists the dictator had once repressed rose to prominence as militia leaders and politicians in the vacuum left by his fall. Libya has always been a conservative and largely homogenous country; its population of 6 million is almost entirely Sunni Muslim. And thats why when Libyans went to vote last weekend in the first national election since 1965, many observers assumed  with good reason  that if neighboring Tunisia and Egypt had elected Islamist governments in the aftermath of their revolutions, surely Libya  of all places  would follow suit.But in the past 18 months since the start of the Arab Spring, Libya has also served as the Arab worlds anomaly: waging war when others waged protests, overthrowing an entire regime rather than simply its strongman, and most recently, demonstrating remarkable stability despite the odds. As election results trickle in this week, Libya appears poised to buck yet another Arab Spring trend: the Islamist rise.
> 
> Weeks after Egypt elected Mohamed Morsy, the first Islamist president in the countrys historyand just months after it elected a parliament dominated by Morsys Muslim Brotherhood  Libya has done the exact opposite. Early electoral results indicate that the liberal, secular-leaning National Forces Alliance of Mahmoud Jibril, the former wartime Prime Minister of the rebels National Transitional Council (NTC), has swept the majority of the countrys new parliament. Even Libyas newly empowered Muslim Brotherhood has conceded that it failed to win a majority of the assemblys 200 seats. And indeed, as the newly elected body moves to select a government to replace the NTC this month, Jibril may well become Libyas first post-revolution prime minister.
> 
> All that may have some observers blinking and blind-sighted in the Libyan sunlight, but analysts on the ground say it makes more sense than you might think. To start, many Libyans voted along tribal and familial lines, rather than according to ideological alliances. And analysts say that political inexperience may have fragmented support for the Islamists even as Jibrils broad coalition, benefited from well-known personalities and parties that span the countrys tribes and cities.



Read more: Why the Islamists Are Not Winning in Libya | World | TIME.com


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## High_Gravity

Libya Elections: Islamists Won't Rule Libya, Says Outgoing Leader








> TRIPOLI, Libya -- Liberal parties held a lead Wednesday in partial results from Libya's first parliamentary election, on the same day that the head of the interim government stated his country would not be ruled by Islamists.
> 
> Up to now Islamists have taken leadership roles in other countries that experienced Arab Spring revolts, like Egypt and Tunisia.
> 
> The overthrow of longtime ruler Moammar Gadhafi left Libya without a cohesive regime. Gadhafi, who was captured and killed in October, opposed democracy in Libya and ruled virtually by himself. Saturday's election was a major step toward reform.
> 
> Libyans went to the polls to elect a National Assembly that will name a new government.
> 
> Partial results released by the election commission show that the Alliance of National Forces, a coalition of liberals led by former Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril, maintains a lead. Jibril was the international face of the opposition during the uprising last year.
> 
> According to the official results, the liberal alliance finished far ahead of the Muslim Brotherhood's Justice and Construction Party in the eastern city of Benghazi, the country's second largest and the birthplace of the uprising. It also beat out Islamist parties in western cities as far away as the country's border with Tunisia.
> 
> Some 2.7 million Libyans, making up more than 60 percent of eligible voters, cast their ballots for the first time in more than five decades on Saturday in the first nationwide vote since the downfall of Gadhafi.
> 
> "What happened in Libya was a miracle," National Transitional Council chief Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told The Associated Press. "People's choices of the assembly are excellent and nationalist."
> 
> Despite the early signs of democracy in Libya, Abdul-Jalil cautioned that Libya will need at least five years to move beyond the legacy of tribal warfare and rogue militias left in the wake of the uprising.
> 
> "If they continue to battle and strike the chord of tribalism ... it will take much longer," he said.
> 
> The transitional government has been unable to bring rival militias under the umbrella of a national force. Instead, they often battle each other while maintaining control of many segments of the country.



Libya Elections: Islamists Won't Rule Libya, Says Outgoing Leader


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## High_Gravity

Starting from scratch: Libyans struggle to build a civil society








> It was a hot, still afternoon last week in Tripoli when three young men entered a four-star hotel on the waterfront armed with a letter. It began with a Quranic verse about Gods favor toward the righteous: "Whatever good you prepare for yourselves, you will find it with God, better and greater in reward."
> 
> The men belonged to the Child and Promise Association, a new child welfare group that is part of post-Qaddafi Libyas fledgling civil society. They hoped to use the hotel garden for a fundraising dinner.
> 
> Interim leaders say civil society is vital to repairing a country ravaged by dictatorship. But while civic groups are at last able to operate freely, they now face a struggle for know-how and cash.
> 
> They are needed almost everywhere, says Atia Lawgali, deputy minister of culture and civil society. In rebuilding our institutions, to encourage peoples participation, to fight corruption, to name only a few areas.
> 
> Libya inherited those challenges and others from Muammar Qaddafi, who dismantled state institutions after seizing power in 1969 and crushed civic ones. Political parties and trade unions were banned, while civil society groups needed 50 members and a thorough vetting by security services for permission to operate. In recent years Qaddafis family members created pro-regime NGOs that swallowed up public funds while public services sank into ruin, says Mr. Lawgali.
> 
> When war began peeling back Qaddafis regime, new charities  often groups of friends and neighbors  arose to help organize, feed, and educate Libyans. Interim authorities want those groups to keep working, says Lamia Abusedra, a board member of a state support center for NGOs that will open soon in Benghazi, with branches around Libya.
> 
> But many groups who registered with authorities have shut down for lack of direction or means, she says. The new center will offer services, including training in management, project planning, and fundraising.
> 
> They played a great role in the revolution, but its difficult to say now who is still up and running, she says. Were very worried that the energy weve seen in civil society could fade out. A "delay" in public funding  because some groups dont want public funding without a transparent mechanism that is fair for all  also poses an obstacle, Abusedra says.



Starting from scratch: Libyans struggle to build a civil society - CSMonitor.com


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## High_Gravity

New Gaddafi Video? Footage Purportedly Shows Late Libyan Leader After His Death 



> A YouTube upload purporting to show new footage from after Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi's violent death last October has surfaced, allegedly providing a clearer view of the late dictator's bloodied body.
> 
> Activist Sami al-Hamwi (@HamaEcho) tweeted a link to the video, remarking that someone should show the footage to Syrian president Bashar Assad as a reminder of what befell another Middle East dictator.
> 
> Previous footage posted shortly after Gaddafi's death last year showed him on his knees, seemingly alive. In the clearer footage below, Gaddafi's shirtless body appears to be transported by a group of men in the back of a van.



New Gaddafi Video? Footage Purportedly Shows Late Libyan Leader After His Death (GRAPHIC)


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## High_Gravity

The Bomb Attacks in Libya: Are Gaddafi Loyalists Behind Them?








> When a bomb planted under a car exploded in a hotel parking in Benghazi last June, residents dismissed fears their city would be transformed into an urban battlefield.  Libya wont become Iraq, said Abdallah Faraj as a fire crew extinguished the flames. A year later a string of bombings has kindled worries that this historically quiet desert country is facing a surge in violence. And it is unlikely to end soon as an interim government which did little to address security concerns having handed power to an elected government yet to find its footing.
> 
> Just this week two car bombs planted outside security installations in the capital of Tripoli resulted in two deaths. The next day another bomb placed under the vehicle of an Egyptian diplomat exploded but caused no casualties. Libyan authorities were quick to point the blame at supporters of longtime leader Muammar Gaddafi. Though he was killed at the end of last years eight month revolution, he still commands silent admiration in many parts of Libya.
> 
> We know that Gaddafi loyalists are behind these bombings says a source close to the countrys newly elected president Muhammad Muqaryef.  In the last few months, the security services have intensified the campaign against the late dictators loyalists in strongholds such as Bani Walid and Tarhuna. In a recent interview with TIME, Prime Minister Abdel Rahmin al-Kib noted that abomb making cell in Tripoli was captured, yielding much information about how the loosely organized cells operate.
> 
> Security officials note that senior Gaddafi regime figures in neighboring countries of Algeria, Egypt and Niger are behind the budding insurgency.  At the top of their list are Gaddafis son Saadi in Niger and his nephew Ahmad Gaddaf al-Damm in Egypt. We know these people are sending in large quantities of money and support to the loyalists, explains Colonel Khamid Bilhayr of the Libyan National Army (LNA).
> 
> Residents from cities like Bani Walid have reason to be angry with the new government. Gaddafi drew on its inhabitants to staff key positions in his security services.  It was the last city outside of Gaddafis birthplace of Sirte to fall to the rebels; and his son SaIf al-Islam passed through after the regime collapsed. In January, residents attacked a military camp associated with the interim government on the outskirts of the city.  Meanwhile, other parts of the country have seen loyalists tortured and persecuted.  Beatings and other ill-treatment are common, Amnesty International noted in its report entitled Detention Abuses Staining the New Libya.
> 
> Some however believe jihadists are behind the bombings because many of the attacks have singled out Western targets such as the U.S. consulate in Benghazi and convoys carrying the British ambassador and the United Nations special envoy to Libya. An anti-Gaddafi group called the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) waged a campaign against him between 1995-8.  Following its defeat, many cadres fled to Afghanistan where they mingled with al-Qaeda operatives. Though the LIFGs leaders have embraced the democratic process, some fringe elements oppose it.  Other Libyans traveled to Iraq to fight American forces.  Records captured there by the United States military at an al-Qaeda safe house revealed that more foreign suicide bombers came from the eastern Libyan city of Darna than any other in the Arab world.



Read more: Libya Car-Bomb Attacks: Gaddafi Loyalists or Jihadists? | World | TIME.com


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## High_Gravity

Libya: New Proof Of Mass Killings At Gaddafi Death Site 



> (Beirut)  New evidence collected by Human Rights Watch implicates Misrata-based militias in the apparent execution of dozens of detainees following the capture and death of Muammar Gaddafi one year ago. The Libyan authorities have failed to carry out their pledge to investigate the death of Gaddafi, Libyas former dictator, his son Mutassim, and dozens of others in rebel custody.
> 
> The 50-page report, Death of a Dictator: Bloody Vengeance in Sirte,details the final hours of Muammar Gaddafis life and the circumstances under which he was killed. It presents evidence that Misrata-based militias captured and disarmed members of the Gaddafi convoy and, after bringing them under their total control, subjected them to brutal beatings. They then executed at least 66 captured members of the convoy at the nearby Mahari Hotel. The evidence indicates that opposition militias took Gaddafis wounded son Mutassim from Sirte to Misrata and killed him there.
> 
> The evidence suggests that opposition militias summarily executed at least 66 captured members of Gaddafis convoy in Sirte, said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch. It also looks as if they took Mutassim Gaddafi, who had been wounded, to Misrata and killed him there. Our findings call into question the assertion by Libyan authorities that Muammar Gaddafi was killed in crossfire, and not after his capture."



Human Rights Watch: Libya: New Proof Of Mass Killings At Gaddafi Death Site


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## LAfrique

High_Gravity said:


> Libya: New Proof Of Mass Killings At Gaddafi Death Site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Beirut)  New evidence collected by Human Rights Watch implicates Misrata-based militias in the apparent execution of dozens of detainees following the capture and death of Muammar Gaddafi one year ago. The Libyan authorities have failed to carry out their pledge to investigate the death of Gaddafi, Libyas former dictator, his son Mutassim, and dozens of others in rebel custody.
> 
> The 50-page report, Death of a Dictator: Bloody Vengeance in Sirte,details the final hours of Muammar Gaddafis life and the circumstances under which he was killed. It presents evidence that Misrata-based militias captured and disarmed members of the Gaddafi convoy and, after bringing them under their total control, subjected them to brutal beatings. They then executed at least 66 captured members of the convoy at the nearby Mahari Hotel. The evidence indicates that opposition militias took Gaddafis wounded son Mutassim from Sirte to Misrata and killed him there.
> 
> The evidence suggests that opposition militias summarily executed at least 66 captured members of Gaddafis convoy in Sirte, said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch. It also looks as if they took Mutassim Gaddafi, who had been wounded, to Misrata and killed him there. Our findings call into question the assertion by Libyan authorities that Muammar Gaddafi was killed in crossfire, and not after his capture."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Human Rights Watch: Libya: New Proof Of Mass Killings At Gaddafi Death Site
Click to expand...



What did you expect? I told you all that Colonel Muammar Gaddafi was in fact assassinated not for oppression of Libyans, but because he made his nation independent and sought to make Africa independent.* While a lot of Africans are resenting African tyranny, almost all Africans who challenged the Colonel and sought his demise were NATO thugs recruits* - Militias Become Power Centers in Libya | The Progressive


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