# Be grateful JFK got elected in 1960 instead of Nixon



## LA RAM FAN

Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.

I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.

Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.

They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy. 

Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.

During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.

After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.

He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.

He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.

Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.

We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.

You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.


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## jwoodie

Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).


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## bendog

jwoodie said:


> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).



Khruschev got what he wanted in that we pledged not to invade cuba, but I don't think it was Kabuki Theatre.  Rather, imo the US military was quite pissed they didn't get a chance to strike preemtively and remove Castro.


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## whitehall

JFK was a dilettante rich kid and his degenerate father's last hope for the big political enchilada . Old Joe Kennedy couldn't keep it in his pants and neither could his inbred sons but Joe had a secret weapon, Hollywood and organized crime. Even FDR couldn't control Joe Kennedy who embarrassed the administration by supporting Nazis while he was ambassador to England. Jack had a congenital disease which caused severe back pain and he may have been high on drugs for his entire adult life. Joe fixed it so Jack would have a cushy job in Navy Intelligence but Jack screwed it up by fooling around with a Nazi spy. Next thing you know Jack is asleep in a busy Japanese shipping lane and he gets his PT boat run over. Old Joe hired a novelist to spin the Court Martial offense into a story of heroism and the legend of PT 109 was born. Jack still didn't have much support when he ran for president and Joe called in a few chips and wouldn't you know the Chicago precincts turned defeat into victory. One thing Americans should have learned about the JFK years is to never, ever allow a president to appoint his own brother to head the "justice dept". Bobby's job was to control J. Edgar Hoover and to fight organized crime but he spent his entire job trying to figure out ways to kill the leader of a sovereign country. Like it or not Castro was the legitimate head of Cuba (and still is apparently) but the Kennedy brothers didn't like it so they illegally used the CIA in criminal ways to raise, feed, equip and train an invasion army and then the Kennedys got cold feet and abandoned the sorry mess at the Bay of Pigs. Is it any wonder that Khruschev correctly assessed the US leadership as cowardly and criminal? It seems to be deja-vu all over again today.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.


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## bendog

Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.  Whether JFK would have increased our involvement beyond special forces and aid, which he sent everywhere from Greece to the Congo to Bolivia, is an open question.  JFK and RFK and Reagan's approach to the soviets was eerily similar.  There's an interesting debate transcipt between Reagan and RFK from shortly before RFK's assassination out there.  Taking questions from brit on why we were in vietnam.  RFK changed his mind shortly thereafter, when he concluded we couldn't win, and we should cut our losses.


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## whitehall

RFK was an interesting character. As Attorney General he authorized the illegal wiretapping of MLK and presumably the entire civil rights network and then he reversed himself for the media and pretended to be a friend and supporter of MLK. He was reluctant to go after organized crime because he and his brother had ties to Vegas mobsters so he spent his time creating exotic ways to kill Castro. He voted for Military adventures all over the world including Vietnam before he voted against them. The Kennedy brothers really had no core values or political skill. They relied on polling data and media support, something like what we are seeing now.


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## Katzndogz

The only reason why the Cuban missile crisis occurred was because JFK projected an image of weakness and vacillation.  If it had been Nixon, it never would have started.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP.  You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.


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## bendog

RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary.  He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled.  It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls.  All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks."  That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.  

It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon.  It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA.  An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name.  I gave it a quick read.  I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism.  But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.

And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop.  And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.


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## whitehall

bendog said:


> RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary.  He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled.  It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls.  All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks."  That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.
> 
> It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon.  It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA.  An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name.  I gave it a quick read.  I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism.  But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.
> 
> And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop.  And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.



RFK's "ability to communicate with the least fortunate"? What the hell does that mean? RFK  was Attorney General and as far as I know his duties did not include "communicating with the least fortunate" or Vegas hookers or Hollywood starlets. The Kennedy legend is coming unraveled and that's a good thing.


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## bendog

The lesson my partisan friend is that is not about partisanship

Joe Scarborough


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## MaryL

This is a good thread. If Nixon had been elected in 60', the "bay of pigs" fiasco may never have happened, the Cuban missile crisis may never have happened and JFK may have lived past November of 63. We may have avoided a military disaster of Vietnam...not to mention Watergate years later...


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## Toro

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP.  You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.



Reagan too.


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## gipper

Toro said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP.  You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan too.
Click to expand...


Those two posts must be attempts at humor...because factually they are totally clueless, but do fit nicely into lib/d party talking points.

Lets see, W was a progressive and so was his daddy.  Dole, McCain, and Romney all progressives.  Yet you two believe the R party is some kind of right wing fanatical party.  How can you be so easily duped?

The Rs and Ds are essentially the same.  Stinking progressive.


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## whitehall

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP.  You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.



As always the radical left has it ass backwards. Democrats ran their former V.P. candidate out of the party for appearing too moderate. Now that you mention it, JFK's policies (as faulty as they are) would appear to be Tea Party day dreams to today's democrat party. "Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country" ....did a democrat really say that?


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## LA RAM FAN

jwoodie said:


> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).



Way to avoid the facts.  Nice game of dodgeball there ignoring that Nixon in later years said he would have gone in and bombed them just like the military wanted Jfk to do but he wisely resisted. 

Oh and Jfk was a man of world peace,contrary to many of the lies that have been spread over the years by our corrupt society and media,the missiles were already there when Jfk got in office.

They were put in place in Turkey under Eisenhower whom unlike vietnam,actually had a good reason for putting them there.Jfk and Kruschev had to make back channel meetings with each other because their governments were both doing a very good job of not carrying oput their directives.


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## LA RAM FAN

bendog said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khruschev got what he wanted in that we pledged not to invade cuba, but I don't think it was Kabuki Theatre.  Rather, imo the US military was quite pissed they didn't get a chance to strike preemtively and remove Castro.
Click to expand...




You have definetely done your homework I see.

they would have gotten there wish though had Dick Nixon been elected back then.By the time he became president,thankfully by then,he had matured enough to not do what he tried to get Ike to do in Laos which i said bomb, but Nixon is actually on record in those meetings telling Ike that we need to NUKE the communists in Laos which Eisenhower being wise in wisdom in years,thankfully did not listen to Dick Nixon and did  follow his advise.

In 68 by the time he had become president,he had become more mature enough at that time not to follow through with his earlier advise to Ike and thankfully did not nuke them.

However in the early 60's? Whitehouse staffers who worked in the Eisenhower administration said they thought he was the most immature idiot of a politician they ever met so seeing as how he was so immature back then under Eisenhower ,you can count on it that in  the early 60's,unlike Jfk, he would have done what the bass in the military wanted Jfk to do with Cuba and gone ahead and bombed them and gotten us into world war three.

I see some  posters  completely dodged that important fact.


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## GHook93

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



Not true, Professor X, Magneto and the Original XMen would have still been there to prevent war! Did you not see the documentary on it called XMen: The First Class!


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## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.

that means your on ignore troll.


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## LA RAM FAN

Katzndogz said:


> The only reason why the Cuban missile crisis occurred was because JFK projected an image of weakness and vacillation.  If it had been Nixon, it never would have started.



oh brother, we would have had world war three had  it been Dick Nixon in office . 

why do people keep playing dodgeball not even bothering to read the post just what the thread title says and only come on with opinions instead of facts?


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## LA RAM FAN

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.



as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history as well as what really goes on in the country currently.

Like Bendog said,-
Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.

Jfk inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower fool.The TRUE history of vietnam that you dont hear from our corrupt public schools  is in Eisenhowers last year in office,he drew up plans of military esculation for vietnam that was nearly implememted in final year.He was strongly anti communist and a war mongrel hawk.

Jfk was a man of world peace-"which you obviously dont want to see ever happen."

vietnam was on the backburner of his agenda while President with much more pressing needs like the congo,cuba ,berlin and establishing peaceful relations with the russians.

He believed in open diologue with other world leaders.That infuriated the establishment.

He resisted the plans drawn up by Eisenhower in his last year in office for all out war in vietnam that the military urged him to partake in.

Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965. 

Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of vietnam,but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.

They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.

Lyndon Johnson got in,and he reversed Kennedys policy just two days later after the assassination esculating the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.

He implemened the plans Eisenhower drew up for military esculation with covert wars by the CIA that Jfk resisted from the military brass.

oh and as far as those 57,000 american lives lost? hate to break your heart,but you have those two bastards Johnson and Dick Nixon to thank for that. In an interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 when he interviewing Kennedy on the subject of vietnam,at the bottom left hand screen,in bold big numbers,it displays casualtys in vietnam-82

In case you never learned how to count,82 casualtys is a far cry from the 57,000 americans that occured under Johnson and Nixon.

It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans.It was Johnson and Nixon.Many ignorant sheople think that Nixon ended the war.what they arent aware of though obviously is he could easily have ended it in 69 if he had wanted to.But he let the war drag on for another four more years extending the war so he is just as much a mass murderer of those 58,000 americans as Johnson is.

Johnson is even on tape in the white house tapes talking about how Nixon sabotoged his paris peace talks on vietnam to try and end the war that he gave the establishment.

Dick Nixon,lied to the american people  runnign a campaine that he would end the war quickly,where instead,he extended the war.

so AGAIN,those 58,000 american lives lost are americans that were murdered by Johnson and Nixon,grow up.






RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary. He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled. It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls. All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks." That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson. 

It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon. It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA. An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name. I gave it a quick read. I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism. But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.

And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop. And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated. 

actually there was a major difference.Nixon had deep ties to the CIA and was willing to give them the extended war in vietnam they wanted,where Jfk was a man of world peace and wanted to establish peaceful relations with the soviets.which is what infuriated the establishment.war means big business and huge profits for corporations hense,why we have the war going on in the middle east.

Unlike the majority of ignorant posters on here who are cluless and ignorant of our american history,YOU seem to know what your talking about and have done your homework.

This is the only part of any of your posts that havent been right on and accurate,everything else you have posted,has been dead on though.


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## Meathead

Stupid premise, especially when you think about the war in Vietnam. Nixon had had no charisma ,but was undoubtedly the sharpest to ascend the presidency.

You may need to educate yourselves to understand.


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## Meathead

9/11 inside job said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history.
Click to expand...

Hey dingbat, Iraq was in a sense successfu *Hussien gone, no  gassing and a more tolerant authorityl. What can you say about Vietnam when the US left?

Idiot, sorry.


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## LA RAM FAN

i see the trolls are coming to this thread and droves now.

Meathead,you always ran off with your tail between your legs never addressing facts how reagan was the most corrupt president ever at the time in office from many posters on that thread sometime back so you proved back then,the user name MEATHEAD is PERFECT for you.that thats what your brain consist of.

so I have no doubt your here to troll on this thread as well.sorry not going to take the bait and give you the attention you seek.


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## Meathead

9/11 inside job said:


> i see the trolls are coming to this thread and droves now.re
> Meathead,you always ran off with your tail between your legs never addressing facts how reagan was the most corrupt president ever at the time in office from many posters on that thread sometime back so you proved back then,the user name MEATHEAD is PERFECT for you.that thats what your brain consist of.
> 
> so I have no doubt your here to troll on this thread as well.sorry not going to take the bait and give you the attention you seek.


I had the "courtesy" to inform you that you're a prick at least. All I can remember of my exchanges with you is a self-defeating troll.


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## LA RAM FAN

9/11 inside job said:


> i see the trolls are coming to this thread and droves now.
> 
> Meathead,you always ran off with your tail between your legs never addressing facts how reagan was the most corrupt president ever at the time in office from many posters on that thread sometime back so you proved back then,the user name MEATHEAD is PERFECT for you.that thats what your brain consist of.
> 
> so I have no doubt your here to troll on this thread as well.sorry not going to take the bait and give you the attention you seek.



maybe if repeated enough,it will actually sink into that MEATHEAD warped drugged up brain.


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## Toro

gipper said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP.  You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those two posts must be attempts at humor...because factually they are totally clueless, but do fit nicely into lib/d party talking points.
> 
> Lets see, W was a progressive and so was his daddy.  Dole, McCain, and Romney all progressives.  Yet you two believe the R party is some kind of right wing fanatical party.  How can you be so easily duped?
> 
> The Rs and Ds are essentially the same.  Stinking progressive.
Click to expand...


If a governor who had raised taxes multiple times in his state, what do you think the odds of that governor winning the nomination in today's Republican Party?  I'd say somewhere south of zero percent. 

That's what Reagan did as governor of California.


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## gipper

Toro said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those two posts must be attempts at humor...because factually they are totally clueless, but do fit nicely into lib/d party talking points.
> 
> Lets see, W was a progressive and so was his daddy.  Dole, McCain, and Romney all progressives.  Yet you two believe the R party is some kind of right wing fanatical party.  How can you be so easily duped?
> 
> The Rs and Ds are essentially the same.  Stinking progressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a governor who had raised taxes multiple times in his state, what do you think the odds of that governor winning the nomination in today's Republican Party?  I'd say somewhere south of zero percent.
> 
> That's what Reagan did as governor of California.
Click to expand...


Really?  Apparently you are unaware that Romney raised taxes and implemented a socialist healthcare plan in MA (which BO & Friends modeled Obamacare after), decades after Reagan was CA governor.  

Guess what?  In case you don't know, Romney won the R nomination just last year, unlike Reagan who did so DECADES AGO.

Did that blow up your closed leftist mind?

Get informed and stop accepting the propaganda from lying left wing sources.  Stop being played like a violin by the Left.  The difference between the Rs and Ds is little.  We have a one party system and a government of oligarchs.  

Romney?s Jobs Record Is Best (or Worst)


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## Toro

gipper said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those two posts must be attempts at humor...because factually they are totally clueless, but do fit nicely into lib/d party talking points.
> 
> Lets see, W was a progressive and so was his daddy.  Dole, McCain, and Romney all progressives.  Yet you two believe the R party is some kind of right wing fanatical party.  How can you be so easily duped?
> 
> The Rs and Ds are essentially the same.  Stinking progressive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a governor who had raised taxes multiple times in his state, what do you think the odds of that governor winning the nomination in today's Republican Party?  I'd say somewhere south of zero percent.
> 
> That's what Reagan did as governor of California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Apparently you are unaware that Romney raised taxes and implemented a socialist healthcare plan in MA (which BO & Friends modeled Obamacare after), decades after Reagan was CA governor.
> 
> Guess what?  In case you don't know, Romney won the R nomination just last year, unlike Reagan who did so DECADES AGO.
> 
> Did that blow up your closed leftist mind?
> 
> Get informed and stop accepting the propaganda from lying left wing sources.  Stop being played like a violin by the Left.  The difference between the Rs and Ds is little.  We have a one party system and a government of oligarchs.
> 
> Romney?s Jobs Record Is Best (or Worst)
Click to expand...


Are you a far left-wing Naderite?  You sure sound like one. 

Romney never raised tax rates.  He cut or delayed some, and closed loopholes and increased penalties and fees. That's pretty mainstream Republican these days. 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/23/news/economy/Romney_tax_record/index.htm

As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.


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## gipper

Toro said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a governor who had raised taxes multiple times in his state, what do you think the odds of that governor winning the nomination in today's Republican Party?  I'd say somewhere south of zero percent.
> 
> That's what Reagan did as governor of California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Apparently you are unaware that Romney raised taxes and implemented a socialist healthcare plan in MA (which BO & Friends modeled Obamacare after), decades after Reagan was CA governor.
> 
> Guess what?  In case you don't know, Romney won the R nomination just last year, unlike Reagan who did so DECADES AGO.
> 
> Did that blow up your closed leftist mind?
> 
> Get informed and stop accepting the propaganda from lying left wing sources.  Stop being played like a violin by the Left.  The difference between the Rs and Ds is little.  We have a one party system and a government of oligarchs.
> 
> Romney?s Jobs Record Is Best (or Worst)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you a far left-wing Naderite?  You sure sound like one.
> 
> Romney never raised tax rates.  He cut or delayed some, and closed loopholes and increased penalties and fees. That's pretty mainstream Republican these days.
> 
> Mitt Romney's tax record: Tax cutter or tax hiker? - Jan. 23, 2012
> 
> As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.
Click to expand...


Oh please stop with your foolishness.

Now you twist your argument from "he raised taxes" to "tax rates," after I CORRECTED you.  

Romney RAISED taxes in MA.  Plus he instituted socialist HC, which you apparently know nothing of or discount.  How can you discount this left wing shit by an R governor?

Reagan and HW raised TAXES.  McCain and Dole voted for rising taxes.  Romney RAISED taxes.  But you think R voters would never vote for an R presidential candidate who raised TAXES.  

You are WRONG!  Wake the FUCK UP!  

Whatever the Left tells you, you believe.  You are the poster child for "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"


----------



## Toro

gipper said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Apparently you are unaware that Romney raised taxes and implemented a socialist healthcare plan in MA (which BO & Friends modeled Obamacare after), decades after Reagan was CA governor.
> 
> Guess what?  In case you don't know, Romney won the R nomination just last year, unlike Reagan who did so DECADES AGO.
> 
> Did that blow up your closed leftist mind?
> 
> Get informed and stop accepting the propaganda from lying left wing sources.  Stop being played like a violin by the Left.  The difference between the Rs and Ds is little.  We have a one party system and a government of oligarchs.
> 
> Romney?s Jobs Record Is Best (or Worst)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a far left-wing Naderite?  You sure sound like one.
> 
> Romney never raised tax rates.  He cut or delayed some, and closed loopholes and increased penalties and fees. That's pretty mainstream Republican these days.
> 
> Mitt Romney's tax record: Tax cutter or tax hiker? - Jan. 23, 2012
> 
> As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please stop with your foolishness.
> 
> Now you twist your argument from "he raised taxes" to "tax rates," after I CORRECTED you.
> 
> Romney RAISED taxes in MA.  Plus he instituted socialist HC, which you apparently know nothing of or discount.  How can you discount this left wing shit by an R governor?
> 
> Reagan and HW raised TAXES.  McCain and Dole voted for rising taxes.  Romney RAISED taxes.  But you think R voters would never vote for an R presidential candidate who raised TAXES.
> 
> You are WRONG!  Wake the FUCK UP!
> 
> Whatever the Left tells you, you believe.  You are the poster child for "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"
Click to expand...


I meant to say tax rates. Republicans have no problem raising taxes by closing loopholes as long as rates came down and reform was revenue neutral at worst.

You are totally missing the point anyways, which is Reagan today would be considered a RINO.  Reagan raised taxes massively as governor. Only an extremist totally out of touch could even remotely suggest that in today's GOP such a record would be acceptable. Ranting about how the party was 20-30 years ago is irrelevant. 

http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/bruce-bartlett/2154/reagans-forgotten-tax-record


----------



## LA RAM FAN

bendog said:


> RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary.  He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled.  It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls.  All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks."  That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.
> 
> It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon.  It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA.  An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name.  I gave it a quick read.  I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism.  But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.
> 
> And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop.  And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.



Like I said yesterday,you're really the only one on here that has done his homework and really understands what went on back then for the the most part here.Yeah you're right that Hoover had RFK by the balls.He had John by the balls as well as he did all presidents before him that came into office. 

He always got the scoop on their activities to get them by the balls so they would do favors for him through blackmail.Many were shocked when JFK made Johnson his running mate because his views were nothing whatsoever in line with Kennedys.

Kennedy didnt want him for his running mate.He made him his running mate though because Hoover blackmailed him into it.Kennedy had no choice to make Johnson his running mate because he was getting in the pants with a woman that was a known nazi sympathiser.Hoover would have leaked that to the press had Kennedy not gone along with making JOhnson his running mate.Its well known Johnson hated the kennedys from the very get go so again,it was a major shock to everybody in Kennedys camp when he made Johnson his running mate.

Hoover and Johnson at one time,were next door neighbors in Washington.Cant remember the timeframe but they lived next door to each other for years and were very good friends.Hoover also hated the Kennedys with a passion as well.

Just like he blackmailed JFk to make Johnson his runningmate,RFK was in Hoovers pocket as well which is why he gave in to Hoovers blackmail to authorize the wiretapping of King since Robert also knew Hoover would release damaging information to the press about JFK's sexual escapades with a known nazi sympathiser.

Johnson and Hoover benefitted immensely from the assassination.Johnson not only because he became president,but also according to his aides,he was going to dump Johnson from the 1964 ticket he was going to run on and get a new and different runningmate.It was no secret either.

There were national headlines across all the major newspapers in the previous weeks leading up this visit in texas of Nixon predicting Kennedy to drop Johnson as his runningmate for the 1964 reelection campaine ticket.

Hoover probably had inside knowledge on that as well.The way Hoover benefitted from the assassination was the Kennedys hated Hoover as much as Hoover and Johnson hated them.Kennedys aides said he told them after the reelection,he was going to make sure Hoover retired at the standard mandatory age of 65 after he won relection.Well since it was Hoovers longtime friend Johnson that got reelected in 64 instead,Johnson disregarded the mandatory retirement age and scrapped it and Hoover stayed on as director till he was 72.

a lot of people dont understand that some of the things Kennedy wanted to do at the time like pull out of vietnam and dump Johnson as his runningmate and Hoover as director of the FBI,that he couldnt do it till after the reelection campaine in 64.That he was going to have to wait till then to be able to do it.


----------



## gipper

> I meant to say tax rates. Republicans have no problem raising taxes by closing loopholes as long as rates came down and reform was revenue neutral at worst.
> 
> You are totally missing the point anyways, which is Reagan today would be considered a RINO.  Reagan raised taxes massively as governor. Only an extremist totally out of touch could even remotely suggest that in today's GOP such a record would be acceptable. Ranting about how the party was 20-30 years ago is irrelevant.
> 
> Reagan's Forgotten Tax Record | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games


[/QUOTE]

Romney, like all recent R presidential nominees, raised taxes.  As such, your theory that Reagan would be considered a RINO today and as such, never earn the R nominee, is over the top DUMB and clearly WRONG.  

I have disproved your lib media/D Party talking points and yet, your persist.  

The Rs just nominated Romney, who is without question, far more progressive than Reagan EVER was.  Romney IS a RINO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When will Americans like you realize that these so called differences between the parties is PROPAGANDA used to divide us.  Both parties SUCK and both parties are PROGRESSIVE.


----------



## gipper

9/11 inside job said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary.  He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled.  It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls.  All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks."  That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.
> 
> It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon.  It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA.  An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name.  I gave it a quick read.  I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism.  But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.
> 
> And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop.  And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said yesterday,you're really the only one on here that has done his homework and really understands what went on back then for the the most part here.Yeah you're right that Hoover had RFK by the balls.He had John by the balls as well as he did all presidents before him that came into office.
> 
> He always got the scoop on their activities to get them by the balls so they would do favors for him through blackmail.Many were shocked when JFK made Johnson his running mate because his views were nothing whatsoever in line with Kennedys.
> 
> Kennedy didnt want him for his running mate.He made him his running mate though because Hoover blackmailed him into it.Kennedy had no choice to make Johnson his running mate because he was getting in the pants with a woman that was a known nazi sympathiser.Hoover would have leaked that to the press had Kennedy not gone along with making JOhnson his running mate.Its well known Johnson hated the kennedys from the very get go so again,it was a major shock to everybody in Kennedys camp when he made Johnson his running mate.
> 
> Hoover and Johnson at one time,were next door neighbors in Washington.Cant remember the timeframe but they lived next door to each other for years and were very good friends.Hoover also hated the Kennedys with a passion as well.
> 
> Just like he blackmailed JFk to make Johnson his runningmate,RFK was in Hoovers pocket as well which is why he gave in to Hoovers blackmail to authorize the wiretapping of King since Robert also knew Hoover would release damaging information to the press about JFK's sexual escapades with a known nazi sympathiser.
> 
> Johnson and Hoover benefitted immensely from the assassination.Johnson not only because he became president,but also according to his aides,he was going to dump Johnson from the 1964 ticket he was going to run on and get a new and different runningmate.It was no secret either.
> 
> There were national headlines across all the major newspapers in the previous weeks leading up this visit in texas of Nixon predicting Kennedy to drop Johnson as his runningmate for the 1964 reelection campaine ticket.
> 
> Hoover probably had inside knowledge on that as well.The way Hoover benefitted from the assassination was the Kennedys hated Hoover as much as Hoover and Johnson hated them.Kennedys aides said he told them after the reelection,he was going to make sure Hoover retired at the standard mandatory age of 65 after he won relection.Well since it was Hoovers longtime friend Johnson that got reelected in 64 instead,Johnson disregarded the mandatory retirement age and scrapped it and Hoover stayed on as director till he was 72.
> 
> a lot of people dont understand that some of the things Kennedy wanted to do at the time like pull out of vietnam and dump Johnson as his runningmate and Hoover as director of the FBI,that he couldnt do it till after the reelection campaine in 64.That he was going to have to wait till then to be able to do it.
Click to expand...


Agreed.

Amazingly Daddy Bush was also involved in the Kennedy assassination.  
Part 1. ?Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency? - WhoWhatWhy

Statism always sucks.  When will Americans wake up to this fact?  

Here we are 50 years after the assassination and still the federal government continues the charade of lies.  When a government can perpetrate a coup and get away with it, its time to end that government.


----------



## bendog

I am not sure JFK would have dropped LBJ, but there's no doubt no love was lost.  LBJ thought he'd still be de facto senate leader as VP, but found out that wasn't gonna happen.

But, what is interesting to me in terms of Vietnam was that there was little difference between Goldwater and JFK on communism.  Goldwater's point in 64 as to LBJ and Vietnam was simply, "if you're gonna have a war, fight to win, and do whatever it take to get it done."  LBJ actually favored Nixon in 68, because he distrusted Humphrey on vietnam.  So, he left Nixon in a position of trying to get out of Vietnam and taking years to do so.  When we finally left, our allies were wondering "what took so long?"

I'm amused at the irony about Dems.  LBJ actuallly consciously lied about the Tonkin Gulf Incident to get support for ground troops.  (does that sound like a recent goper? anyone?)  Then, he refused to back out because he feared the gop would "crucify" him.  He lost a majority that enacted medicare, medicaid and a coaltion that enacted civil rights.  Obama was in turn handed a supermajority and enacted universal coverage which is the dem dream since FDR.  Yet, he's turned out to be ineffectual on everything.  He bailed out wall street, and then didn't get wall st to pay for it.  He lost his supermajority because he couldnt' sell his stimulus or healthcare programs.  At this pt, it won't surprise me if Hill doesn't win in 16.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

gipper said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Apparently you are unaware that Romney raised taxes and implemented a socialist healthcare plan in MA (which BO & Friends modeled Obamacare after), decades after Reagan was CA governor.
> 
> Guess what?  In case you don't know, Romney won the R nomination just last year, unlike Reagan who did so DECADES AGO.
> 
> Did that blow up your closed leftist mind?
> 
> Get informed and stop accepting the propaganda from lying left wing sources.  Stop being played like a violin by the Left.  The difference between the Rs and Ds is little.  We have a one party system and a government of oligarchs.
> 
> Romney?s Jobs Record Is Best (or Worst)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a far left-wing Naderite?  You sure sound like one.
> 
> Romney never raised tax rates.  He cut or delayed some, and closed loopholes and increased penalties and fees. That's pretty mainstream Republican these days.
> 
> Mitt Romney's tax record: Tax cutter or tax hiker? - Jan. 23, 2012
> 
> As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please stop with your foolishness.
> 
> Now you twist your argument from "he raised taxes" to "tax rates," after I CORRECTED you.
> 
> Romney RAISED taxes in MA.  Plus he instituted socialist HC, which you apparently know nothing of or discount.  How can you discount this left wing shit by an R governor?
> 
> Reagan and HW raised TAXES.  McCain and Dole voted for rising taxes.  Romney RAISED taxes.  But you think R voters would never vote for an R presidential candidate who raised TAXES.
> 
> You are WRONG!  Wake the FUCK UP!
> 
> Whatever the Left tells you, you believe.  You are the poster child for "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"
Click to expand...


Toto pretty much knows ZILCH about politics and whats going on in the country and the world.He needs to stick to sports where he actually knows what he is talking about.lol

He swallows everything the idiot box in the living room tells him to be true no matter how absurd it is and no matter how much the facts disprove their lies.He is too much conditioned and programmed to look outside the box and only sees ONE side of the coin.Never looks at the other side.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

gipper said:


> I meant to say tax rates. Republicans have no problem raising taxes by closing loopholes as long as rates came down and reform was revenue neutral at worst.
> 
> You are totally missing the point anyways, which is Reagan today would be considered a RINO.  Reagan raised taxes massively as governor. Only an extremist totally out of touch could even remotely suggest that in today's GOP such a record would be acceptable. Ranting about how the party was 20-30 years ago is irrelevant.
> 
> Reagan's Forgotten Tax Record | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games
Click to expand...


Romney, like all recent R presidential nominees, raised taxes.  As such, your theory that Reagan would be considered a RINO today and as such, never earn the R nominee, is over the top DUMB and clearly WRONG.  

I have disproved your lib media/D Party talking points and yet, your persist.  

The Rs just nominated Romney, who is without question, far more progressive than Reagan EVER was.  Romney IS a RINO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When will Americans like you realize that these so called differences between the parties is PROPAGANDA used to divide us.  Both parties SUCK and both parties are PROGRESSIVE.[/QUOTE]

Thats the logic of Toto for you as your finding out. He wouldnt last ONE MINUTE in a debating hall with you.Everytime he is cornered with facts he cant refute,he changes the subject as you are finding out.

Trolls like him know with the security of the computer to hide behind,they can troll the boards and make up things without people laughing him out of the debating contest since he doesnt have to go before them live.

Yeah thats comedy gold that Toto thinks Reagan would be considered a RINO in this day and age when he betrayed the lower and middle class familys shipping jobs overseas.

Thats why the myth about Reagan spun by the media and mouthpieces like Rush Limbaugh took off because he was the architect and the person that got it all started on betraying the american people shipping jobs overseas which every president since then has followed the footsteps of.thats why the media makes him out to be a martyr.

Mass murderer Reagan,the man who committed treason against the american people with the october surprise,spat on the constitution with Iran Contra lying to the american people about his involvement in it,yep Toto has the warped logic that he would be in the same class as ron paul as a RINO.

comedy gold.Him and meathead brain should hook up.

Best damn post on this thread in response to my opening post.

I take it back what i said earlier.Your the SECOND poster to come on this thread who actually knows our true american history and actually knows what they are talking about.

people like Toto have been brainwashed and dont want to come to grips with it that there is no difference between the two parties.that its really a ONE PARTY SYSTEM designed to look like two parties so the sheople think they have a choice on who gets elected. that just goes through one ear and out the other though with people like Toto.

Whats funny about the fools who love reagan and republicans so much is he was a democrat before he switched over and ran on the republican ticket later on.

welcome to the world of Totoland that he lives in.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

gipper said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary.  He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled.  It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls.  All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks."  That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.
> 
> It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon.  It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA.  An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name.  I gave it a quick read.  I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism.  But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.
> 
> And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop.  And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said yesterday,you're really the only one on here that has done his homework and really understands what went on back then for the the most part here.Yeah you're right that Hoover had RFK by the balls.He had John by the balls as well as he did all presidents before him that came into office.
> 
> He always got the scoop on their activities to get them by the balls so they would do favors for him through blackmail.Many were shocked when JFK made Johnson his running mate because his views were nothing whatsoever in line with Kennedys.
> 
> Kennedy didnt want him for his running mate.He made him his running mate though because Hoover blackmailed him into it.Kennedy had no choice to make Johnson his running mate because he was getting in the pants with a woman that was a known nazi sympathiser.Hoover would have leaked that to the press had Kennedy not gone along with making JOhnson his running mate.Its well known Johnson hated the kennedys from the very get go so again,it was a major shock to everybody in Kennedys camp when he made Johnson his running mate.
> 
> Hoover and Johnson at one time,were next door neighbors in Washington.Cant remember the timeframe but they lived next door to each other for years and were very good friends.Hoover also hated the Kennedys with a passion as well.
> 
> Just like he blackmailed JFk to make Johnson his runningmate,RFK was in Hoovers pocket as well which is why he gave in to Hoovers blackmail to authorize the wiretapping of King since Robert also knew Hoover would release damaging information to the press about JFK's sexual escapades with a known nazi sympathiser.
> 
> Johnson and Hoover benefitted immensely from the assassination.Johnson not only because he became president,but also according to his aides,he was going to dump Johnson from the 1964 ticket he was going to run on and get a new and different runningmate.It was no secret either.
> 
> There were national headlines across all the major newspapers in the previous weeks leading up this visit in texas of Nixon predicting Kennedy to drop Johnson as his runningmate for the 1964 reelection campaine ticket.
> 
> Hoover probably had inside knowledge on that as well.The way Hoover benefitted from the assassination was the Kennedys hated Hoover as much as Hoover and Johnson hated them.Kennedys aides said he told them after the reelection,he was going to make sure Hoover retired at the standard mandatory age of 65 after he won relection.Well since it was Hoovers longtime friend Johnson that got reelected in 64 instead,Johnson disregarded the mandatory retirement age and scrapped it and Hoover stayed on as director till he was 72.
> 
> a lot of people dont understand that some of the things Kennedy wanted to do at the time like pull out of vietnam and dump Johnson as his runningmate and Hoover as director of the FBI,that he couldnt do it till after the reelection campaine in 64.That he was going to have to wait till then to be able to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Amazingly Daddy Bush was also involved in the Kennedy assassination.
> Part 1. ?Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency? - WhoWhatWhy
> 
> Statism always sucks.  When will Americans wake up to this fact?
> 
> Here we are 50 years after the assassination and still the federal government continues the charade of lies.  When a government can perpetrate a coup and get away with it, its time to end that government.
Click to expand...




Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.

I wonder if any of these fools that have posted ignoring facts that Nixon would have gotten us into world war 3 had he been president back then,are even aware of the fact that Nixon,his long time friend Bush,and CIA covert operation specialist E Howard Hunt who ran covert operations for the CIA that Nixon directed when he was vice president under Eisenhower,that Bush,Nixon and Hunt were the ONLY people in the world who could not remember where they were that day of the assassination.

I wasnt around at that time but I was when 9/11 happened and I will NEVER forget where I was that day on 9/11 as does everybody else that was alive that day remembers where they were at the time of the JFK assassination.Only Nixon,Hunt and Bush could not remember.

Reagan like Bush and Ford ,was also handsomely rewarded the office of the presidency for his particpation in the coverup as well.as governor back then,he blocked extradition requests for subpoenas of key high officials during the Garrison investigation.


Heres Dick Nixon calling up his good old long time friend and co conspirator with him in the JFK assassination Bushwacker to wish him happy birthday.



Notice how the two men invovled in the assassination,Bushwacker and Nixon are all laughing it all up with the two men who got rewarded the office of the presidency for their participation in the coverup,Ford and Reagan?


----------



## gipper

9/11 inside job said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said yesterday,you're really the only one on here that has done his homework and really understands what went on back then for the the most part here.Yeah you're right that Hoover had RFK by the balls.He had John by the balls as well as he did all presidents before him that came into office.
> 
> He always got the scoop on their activities to get them by the balls so they would do favors for him through blackmail.Many were shocked when JFK made Johnson his running mate because his views were nothing whatsoever in line with Kennedys.
> 
> Kennedy didnt want him for his running mate.He made him his running mate though because Hoover blackmailed him into it.Kennedy had no choice to make Johnson his running mate because he was getting in the pants with a woman that was a known nazi sympathiser.Hoover would have leaked that to the press had Kennedy not gone along with making JOhnson his running mate.Its well known Johnson hated the kennedys from the very get go so again,it was a major shock to everybody in Kennedys camp when he made Johnson his running mate.
> 
> Hoover and Johnson at one time,were next door neighbors in Washington.Cant remember the timeframe but they lived next door to each other for years and were very good friends.Hoover also hated the Kennedys with a passion as well.
> 
> Just like he blackmailed JFk to make Johnson his runningmate,RFK was in Hoovers pocket as well which is why he gave in to Hoovers blackmail to authorize the wiretapping of King since Robert also knew Hoover would release damaging information to the press about JFK's sexual escapades with a known nazi sympathiser.
> 
> Johnson and Hoover benefitted immensely from the assassination.Johnson not only because he became president,but also according to his aides,he was going to dump Johnson from the 1964 ticket he was going to run on and get a new and different runningmate.It was no secret either.
> 
> There were national headlines across all the major newspapers in the previous weeks leading up this visit in texas of Nixon predicting Kennedy to drop Johnson as his runningmate for the 1964 reelection campaine ticket.
> 
> Hoover probably had inside knowledge on that as well.The way Hoover benefitted from the assassination was the Kennedys hated Hoover as much as Hoover and Johnson hated them.Kennedys aides said he told them after the reelection,he was going to make sure Hoover retired at the standard mandatory age of 65 after he won relection.Well since it was Hoovers longtime friend Johnson that got reelected in 64 instead,Johnson disregarded the mandatory retirement age and scrapped it and Hoover stayed on as director till he was 72.
> 
> a lot of people dont understand that some of the things Kennedy wanted to do at the time like pull out of vietnam and dump Johnson as his runningmate and Hoover as director of the FBI,that he couldnt do it till after the reelection campaine in 64.That he was going to have to wait till then to be able to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Amazingly Daddy Bush was also involved in the Kennedy assassination.
> Part 1. ?Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency? - WhoWhatWhy
> 
> Statism always sucks.  When will Americans wake up to this fact?
> 
> Here we are 50 years after the assassination and still the federal government continues the charade of lies.  When a government can perpetrate a coup and get away with it, its time to end that government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.
> 
> I wonder if any of these fools that have posted ignoring facts that Nixon would have gotten us into world war 3 had he been president back then,are even aware of the fact that Nixon,his long time friend Bush,and CIA covert operation specialist E Howard Hunt who ran covert operations for the CIA that Nixon directed when he was vice president under Eisenhower,that Bush,Nixon and Hunt were the ONLY people in the world who could not remember where they were that day of the assassination.
> 
> I wasnt around at that time but I was when 9/11 happened and I will NEVER forget where I was that day on 9/11 as does everybody else that was alive that day remembers where they were at the time of the JFK assassination.Only Nixon,Hunt and Bush could not remember.
> 
> Reagan like Bush and Ford ,was also handsomely rewarded the office of the presidency for his particpation in the coverup as well.as governor back then,he blocked extradition requests for subpoenas of key high officials during the Garrison investigation.
> 
> 
> Heres Dick Nixon calling up his good old long time friend and co conspirator with him in the JFK assassination Bushwacker to wish him happy birthday.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucTHNyNYjp0]RICHARD NIXON TAPES: Happy New Years, George Bush! - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> Notice how the two men invovled in the assassination,Bushwacker and Nixon are all laughing it all up with the two men who got rewarded the office of the presidency for their participation in the coverup,Ford and Reagan?
Click to expand...


It is appalling what our government and political leaders have done to cover up the Kennedy assassination.  Over the top appalling...and yet, Americans THINK they live in a free and just nation.  CRAZY.

Hell...I remember where I was when JFK was shot, and I was five years old.

Few people know of Ford's involvement in the coverup.  To his dying day, he kept telling Americans that the Warren Commission (which he assisted in writing) report was accurate...and that Oswald acted alone.  He was a disgusting tool of the State.  

LBJ, Ford, and HW should have been charged, tried, and sentenced to prison for their roles in the coverup...instead of becoming POTUS.  Truly amazing what they were able to accomplish.  Lies, lies, and more lies....

Our nation has been co-opted by disgusting lying Statists.  When will Americans wake up?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

gipper said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Amazingly Daddy Bush was also involved in the Kennedy assassination.
> Part 1. ?Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency? - WhoWhatWhy
> 
> Statism always sucks.  When will Americans wake up to this fact?
> 
> Here we are 50 years after the assassination and still the federal government continues the charade of lies.  When a government can perpetrate a coup and get away with it, its time to end that government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.
> 
> I wonder if any of these fools that have posted ignoring facts that Nixon would have gotten us into world war 3 had he been president back then,are even aware of the fact that Nixon,his long time friend Bush,and CIA covert operation specialist E Howard Hunt who ran covert operations for the CIA that Nixon directed when he was vice president under Eisenhower,that Bush,Nixon and Hunt were the ONLY people in the world who could not remember where they were that day of the assassination.
> 
> I wasnt around at that time but I was when 9/11 happened and I will NEVER forget where I was that day on 9/11 as does everybody else that was alive that day remembers where they were at the time of the JFK assassination.Only Nixon,Hunt and Bush could not remember.
> 
> Reagan like Bush and Ford ,was also handsomely rewarded the office of the presidency for his particpation in the coverup as well.as governor back then,he blocked extradition requests for subpoenas of key high officials during the Garrison investigation.
> 
> 
> Heres Dick Nixon calling up his good old long time friend and co conspirator with him in the JFK assassination Bushwacker to wish him happy birthday.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucTHNyNYjp0]RICHARD NIXON TAPES: Happy New Years, George Bush! - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> 
> Notice how the two men invovled in the assassination,Bushwacker and Nixon are all laughing it all up with the two men who got rewarded the office of the presidency for their participation in the coverup,Ford and Reagan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is appalling what our government and political leaders have done to cover up the Kennedy assassination.  Over the top appalling...and yet, Americans THINK they live in a free and just nation.  CRAZY.
> 
> Hell...I remember where I was when JFK was shot, and I was five years old.
> 
> Few people know of Ford's involvement in the coverup.  To his dying day, he kept telling Americans that the Warren Commission (which he assisted in writing) report was accurate...and that Oswald acted alone.  He was a disgusting tool of the State.
> 
> LBJ, Ford, and HW should have been charged, tried, and sentenced to prison for their roles in the coverup...instead of becoming POTUS.  Truly amazing what they were able to accomplish.  Lies, lies, and more lies....
> 
> Our nation has been co-opted by disgusting lying Statists.  When will Americans wake up?
Click to expand...


dynamite post.

yeah thats funny that even YOU at just five years old can remember where you were that day,yet somehow,Nixon,Hunt,and Bushwacker,are the only three men alive then who were all ADULTS could not remember where they were that dady changing their storys many times over the years.

btw,at first when you came on here,I did not read your posts because of your user name.I thought you were one of those brainless people who had been brainwashed by the lies of the CIA spun media all theses years that reagan was a great president because of your user name.obviously thats not the case,so just why DO you have that user name then if its not for ronnie by chance?


----------



## gipper

9/11 inside job said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.
> 
> I wonder if any of these fools that have posted ignoring facts that Nixon would have gotten us into world war 3 had he been president back then,are even aware of the fact that Nixon,his long time friend Bush,and CIA covert operation specialist E Howard Hunt who ran covert operations for the CIA that Nixon directed when he was vice president under Eisenhower,that Bush,Nixon and Hunt were the ONLY people in the world who could not remember where they were that day of the assassination.
> 
> I wasnt around at that time but I was when 9/11 happened and I will NEVER forget where I was that day on 9/11 as does everybody else that was alive that day remembers where they were at the time of the JFK assassination.Only Nixon,Hunt and Bush could not remember.
> 
> Reagan like Bush and Ford ,was also handsomely rewarded the office of the presidency for his particpation in the coverup as well.as governor back then,he blocked extradition requests for subpoenas of key high officials during the Garrison investigation.
> 
> 
> Heres Dick Nixon calling up his good old long time friend and co conspirator with him in the JFK assassination Bushwacker to wish him happy birthday.
> 
> RICHARD NIXON TAPES: Happy New Years, George Bush! - YouTube
> 
> 
> Notice how the two men invovled in the assassination,Bushwacker and Nixon are all laughing it all up with the two men who got rewarded the office of the presidency for their participation in the coverup,Ford and Reagan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is appalling what our government and political leaders have done to cover up the Kennedy assassination.  Over the top appalling...and yet, Americans THINK they live in a free and just nation.  CRAZY.
> 
> Hell...I remember where I was when JFK was shot, and I was five years old.
> 
> Few people know of Ford's involvement in the coverup.  To his dying day, he kept telling Americans that the Warren Commission (which he assisted in writing) report was accurate...and that Oswald acted alone.  He was a disgusting tool of the State.
> 
> LBJ, Ford, and HW should have been charged, tried, and sentenced to prison for their roles in the coverup...instead of becoming POTUS.  Truly amazing what they were able to accomplish.  Lies, lies, and more lies....
> 
> Our nation has been co-opted by disgusting lying Statists.  When will Americans wake up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dynamite post.
> 
> yeah thats funny that even YOU at just five years old can remember where you were that day,yet somehow,Nixon,Hunt,and Bushwacker,are the only three men alive then who were all ADULTS could not remember where they were that dady changing their storys many times over the years.
> 
> btw,at first when you came on here,I did not read your posts because of your user name.I thought you were one of those brainless people who had been brainwashed by the lies of the CIA spun media all theses years that reagan was a great president because of your user name.obviously thats not the case,so just why DO you have that user name then if its not for ronnie by chance?
Click to expand...


I once was a great admirer of Reagan, when he was in office.  But I educated myself and concluded he was not unlike many of our presidents.  That said, I would take him over all the doofuses who have become POTUS, since he was president.  Sadly, that is not saying much, since all those men were and are disgusting statists.  

I have long been a libertarian bordering on an anarchist.  I get shit from many posters here.  I find it amusing that I get it both from those on the right and the left.  

It is unfortunate that so many Americans have become entrenched in the two party system.  When you recognize the failures of both parties and that both are first and foremost Statists, you realize what a shell game our government has become.

I appreciate that you were able to ignore my user name and base your opinion on the content of my posts.  

I hold out hope that Americans, right and left, can unite once they understand how big centralized government run by a small elite, harms us all.


----------



## editec

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.



*Wrongo, mate*...we (military advisors) were already there before JFK took office.

The first COMBAT TROOPS entered Vietnam _in 1965._

Kennedy, obviously, had nothing to do with that.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

gipper said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is appalling what our government and political leaders have done to cover up the Kennedy assassination.  Over the top appalling...and yet, Americans THINK they live in a free and just nation.  CRAZY.
> 
> Hell...I remember where I was when JFK was shot, and I was five years old.
> 
> Few people know of Ford's involvement in the coverup.  To his dying day, he kept telling Americans that the Warren Commission (which he assisted in writing) report was accurate...and that Oswald acted alone.  He was a disgusting tool of the State.
> 
> LBJ, Ford, and HW should have been charged, tried, and sentenced to prison for their roles in the coverup...instead of becoming POTUS.  Truly amazing what they were able to accomplish.  Lies, lies, and more lies....
> 
> Our nation has been co-opted by disgusting lying Statists.  When will Americans wake up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dynamite post.
> 
> yeah thats funny that even YOU at just five years old can remember where you were that day,yet somehow,Nixon,Hunt,and Bushwacker,are the only three men alive then who were all ADULTS could not remember where they were that dady changing their storys many times over the years.
> 
> btw,at first when you came on here,I did not read your posts because of your user name.I thought you were one of those brainless people who had been brainwashed by the lies of the CIA spun media all theses years that reagan was a great president because of your user name.obviously thats not the case,so just why DO you have that user name then if its not for ronnie by chance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I once was a great admirer of Reagan, when he was in office.  But I educated myself and concluded he was not unlike many of our presidents.  That said, I would take him over all the doofuses who have become POTUS, since he was president.  Sadly, that is not saying much, since all those men were and are disgusting statists.
> 
> I have long been a libertarian bordering on an anarchist.  I get shit from many posters here.  I find it amusing that I get it both from those on the right and the left.
> 
> It is unfortunate that so many Americans have become entrenched in the two party system.  When you recognize the failures of both parties and that both are first and foremost Statists, you realize what a shell game our government has become.
> 
> I appreciate that you were able to ignore my user name and base your opinion on the content of my posts.
> 
> I hold out hope that Americans, right and left, can unite once they understand how big centralized government run by a small elite, harms us all.
Click to expand...


Yeah I was taken in by Reagan the actor back then falling like so many americans did for his charm and personality.Thats why a lot of people wanted him in instead of carter because of that fact.

Yeah you are right,compared to all the presidents we have had since Ronnie,he wanst as bad but yeah thats not saying much since when you compare him to past presidents before him,he was EXTRMELY bad.

He doesnt look so bad now because every president since him has been mnore evil and more corrupt that he was but back then at THE TIME,he was the most corrupt ever creating the worst deficit ever worse than all presidents before him COMBINED!!!!!

with the exception of carter,ever president since JFK,has been more evil and corrupt than the previous one,always will be as long as we have this corrupt two party system.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

editec said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Wrongo, mate*...we (military advisors) were already there before JFK took office.
> 
> The first COMBAT TROOPS entered Vietnam _in 1965._
> 
> Kennedy, obviously, had nothing to do with that.
Click to expand...


thats what i said earlier.some people just arent aware of the facts that Johnson was the one who got the war started sending in combat troops.

The advisors like you said,we ALREADY there before Jfk took office.The only thing kennedy ever increased under Eisenhower was the advisors.He never sent in combat troops.Lbj did.

There were only 82 casultys in sept 1963.thats a far cry from the 58,000 plus that happened under Johnson and Nixons watch.


----------



## namvet

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



you farted again


----------



## gipper

9/11 inside job said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> dynamite post.
> 
> yeah thats funny that even YOU at just five years old can remember where you were that day,yet somehow,Nixon,Hunt,and Bushwacker,are the only three men alive then who were all ADULTS could not remember where they were that dady changing their storys many times over the years.
> 
> btw,at first when you came on here,I did not read your posts because of your user name.I thought you were one of those brainless people who had been brainwashed by the lies of the CIA spun media all theses years that reagan was a great president because of your user name.obviously thats not the case,so just why DO you have that user name then if its not for ronnie by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I once was a great admirer of Reagan, when he was in office.  But I educated myself and concluded he was not unlike many of our presidents.  That said, I would take him over all the doofuses who have become POTUS, since he was president.  Sadly, that is not saying much, since all those men were and are disgusting statists.
> 
> I have long been a libertarian bordering on an anarchist.  I get shit from many posters here.  I find it amusing that I get it both from those on the right and the left.
> 
> It is unfortunate that so many Americans have become entrenched in the two party system.  When you recognize the failures of both parties and that both are first and foremost Statists, you realize what a shell game our government has become.
> 
> I appreciate that you were able to ignore my user name and base your opinion on the content of my posts.
> 
> I hold out hope that Americans, right and left, can unite once they understand how big centralized government run by a small elite, harms us all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah I was taken in by Reagan the actor back then falling like so many americans did for his charm and personality.Thats why a lot of people wanted him in instead of carter because of that fact.
> 
> Yeah you are right,compared to all the presidents we have had since Ronnie,he wanst as bad but yeah thats not saying much since when you compare him to past presidents before him,he was EXTRMELY bad.
> 
> He doesnt look so bad now because every president since him has been mnore evil and more corrupt that he was but back then at THE TIME,he was the most corrupt ever creating the worst deficit ever worse than all presidents before him COMBINED!!!!!
> 
> with the exception of carter,ever president since JFK,has been more evil and corrupt than the previous one,always will be as long as we have this corrupt two party system.
Click to expand...


To give one man the extraordinary powers, now given the POTUS, is a recipe for disaster...and we are in the midst of that disaster right now.  

Unlimited power in the hands of a small elite, ALWAYS leads to problems for the people.  Americans knew this fact at one time.  Now Americans have been brainwashed to believe in the State.

With a small elite firmly in power and a large segment of Americans dependent on that elite, we are destined for serfdom and ultimately the ash heap of history.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

just so you know,before your last post,at 5:14pm yesterday,someone farted in here in my thread.


----------



## Politico

9/11 inside job said:


> Be grateful JFK got elected in 1960 instead of Nixon



No......


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Politico said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be grateful JFK got elected in 1960 instead of Nixon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No......
Click to expand...


I love how all you did was read the thread title.

so you would like to have had Dick Nixon elected which would have assured tha you would not be here right now since he would have gone in and done what the military brass wanted Jfk to do which he resisted,bomb cuba.? Nixon would have done that and gotten us into world war three and you would not be here right now, yet you would like to have had DICK Nixon elected back then?

Better get off that crack you been smoking.

Nixon said in later years had he been president he would have gone in and bombed cuba like the military brass wanted JFK to do and knowing how extrmely immature Nixon was back then,I guarantee you,he would have done just what he said he would do,bomb cuba which would have started world war three.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Here is something that backs up on what i was saying earlier,that had A-hole DICK Nixon been elected,he would have gotten us into world war 3.It was Ike who put the missiles in turkey in the first place,they were already there when Kennedy took office.

How John F. Kennedy's Appeasement Strategy Averted a Nuclear Holocaust | New Republic


----------



## georgephillip

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.


Dick probably would have backed the Bay of Pigs with air support, at least. In which case, the US might well be paying off another illegal occupation in today's dollars. Cuba has been on the hit list of US elites almost since the founding generation, and Nixon might well have delivered for them.


----------



## jwoodie

9/11 inside job said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said yesterday,you're really the only one on here that has done his homework and really understands what went on back then for the the most part here.Yeah you're right that Hoover had RFK by the balls.He had John by the balls as well as he did all presidents before him that came into office.
> 
> He always got the scoop on their activities to get them by the balls so they would do favors for him through blackmail.Many were shocked when JFK made Johnson his running mate because his views were nothing whatsoever in line with Kennedys.
> 
> Kennedy didnt want him for his running mate.He made him his running mate though because Hoover blackmailed him into it.Kennedy had no choice to make Johnson his running mate because he was getting in the pants with a woman that was a known nazi sympathiser.Hoover would have leaked that to the press had Kennedy not gone along with making JOhnson his running mate.Its well known Johnson hated the kennedys from the very get go so again,it was a major shock to everybody in Kennedys camp when he made Johnson his running mate.
> 
> Hoover and Johnson at one time,were next door neighbors in Washington.Cant remember the timeframe but they lived next door to each other for years and were very good friends.Hoover also hated the Kennedys with a passion as well.
> 
> Just like he blackmailed JFk to make Johnson his runningmate,RFK was in Hoovers pocket as well which is why he gave in to Hoovers blackmail to authorize the wiretapping of King since Robert also knew Hoover would release damaging information to the press about JFK's sexual escapades with a known nazi sympathiser.
> 
> Johnson and Hoover benefitted immensely from the assassination.Johnson not only because he became president,but also according to his aides,he was going to dump Johnson from the 1964 ticket he was going to run on and get a new and different runningmate.It was no secret either.
> 
> There were national headlines across all the major newspapers in the previous weeks leading up this visit in texas of Nixon predicting Kennedy to drop Johnson as his runningmate for the 1964 reelection campaine ticket.
> 
> Hoover probably had inside knowledge on that as well.The way Hoover benefitted from the assassination was the Kennedys hated Hoover as much as Hoover and Johnson hated them.Kennedys aides said he told them after the reelection,he was going to make sure Hoover retired at the standard mandatory age of 65 after he won relection.Well since it was Hoovers longtime friend Johnson that got reelected in 64 instead,Johnson disregarded the mandatory retirement age and scrapped it and Hoover stayed on as director till he was 72.
> 
> a lot of people dont understand that some of the things Kennedy wanted to do at the time like pull out of vietnam and dump Johnson as his runningmate and Hoover as director of the FBI,that he couldnt do it till after the reelection campaine in 64.That he was going to have to wait till then to be able to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Amazingly Daddy Bush was also involved in the Kennedy assassination.
> Part 1. ?Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency? - WhoWhatWhy
> 
> Statism always sucks.  When will Americans wake up to this fact?
> 
> Here we are 50 years after the assassination and still the federal government continues the charade of lies.  When a government can perpetrate a coup and get away with it, its time to end that government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.
Click to expand...


Beginning sentences with "Like I said" indicates weakness of intellect, as does excessive use of Smilies.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

jwoodie said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Amazingly Daddy Bush was also involved in the Kennedy assassination.
> Part 1. ?Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency? - WhoWhatWhy
> 
> Statism always sucks.  When will Americans wake up to this fact?
> 
> Here we are 50 years after the assassination and still the federal government continues the charade of lies.  When a government can perpetrate a coup and get away with it, its time to end that government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Beginning sentences with "Like I said" indicates weakness of intellect, as does excessive use of Smilies.
Click to expand...


wrong forum fool.flame zone is the other way.great contribution there. my ignore list grows larger. when in denial,they can only insult.


----------



## Billo_Really

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



What do you have to say to the people saying Kennedy would be considered a neocon today?


----------



## jwoodie

9/11 inside job said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beginning sentences with "Like I said" indicates weakness of intellect, as does excessive use of Smilies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wrong forum fool.flame zone is the other way.great contribution there. my ignore list grows larger. when in denial,they can only insult.
Click to expand...


Like I said...


----------



## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

9/11 inside job said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said,I take it back.You are the second person to come on here who is actually awake and knows the true history of vietnam and what went on during the Kennedy years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beginning sentences with "Like I said" indicates weakness of intellect, as does excessive use of Smilies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wrong forum fool.flame zone is the other way.great contribution there. my ignore list grows larger. when in denial,they can only insult.
Click to expand...


adding on to this,great contribution there and contributing to the subject at hand.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Billo_Really said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you have to say to the people saying Kennedy would be considered a neocon today?
Click to expand...


are there actually morons out there that ACTUALLY say that?


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way to avoid the facts.  Nice game of dodgeball there ignoring that Nixon in later years said he would have gone in and bombed them just like the military wanted Jfk to do but he wisely resisted.
> 
> *Oh and Jfk was a man of world peace,*contrary to many of the lies that have been spread over the years by our corrupt society and media,the missiles were already there when Jfk got in office.
> 
> They were put in place in Turkey under Eisenhower whom unlike vietnam,actually had a good reason for putting them there.Jfk and Kruschev had to make back channel meetings with each other because their governments were both doing a very good job of not carrying oput their directives.
Click to expand...


A man of peace would not have increased the number of troops in Vietnam from 500 to 16,000.  And that was from 500 'military advisors' to 16,000 combat troops.

I rest my case!


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.
> 
> Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of Vietnam, but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.
> 
> They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revisionists who claim otherwise about JFK and Vietnam hinge their assertions on two points. One, are the stories told by JFK aides Dave Powers and Ken O'Donnell that JFK had privately revealed his intention to withdraw, but only after the 1964 elections, when it would be politically far more feasible to do so. This assertion has to be taken with a grain of salt. The O'Donnell/Powers story, appeared in 1971 at a time when America was still deeply embroiled in Vietnam, and when all the Democrats who had originally supported the committment were now against the war, especially since it was now Republican Richard Nixon's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way to avoid the facts.  Nice game of dodgeball there ignoring that Nixon in later years said he would have gone in and bombed them just like the military wanted Jfk to do but he wisely resisted.
> 
> *Oh and Jfk was a man of world peace,*contrary to many of the lies that have been spread over the years by our corrupt society and media,the missiles were already there when Jfk got in office.
> 
> They were put in place in Turkey under Eisenhower whom unlike vietnam,actually had a good reason for putting them there.Jfk and Kruschev had to make back channel meetings with each other because their governments were both doing a very good job of not carrying oput their directives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A man of peace would not have increased the number of troops in Vietnam from 500 to 16,000.  And that was from 500 'military advisors' to 16,000 combat troops.
> 
> I rest my case!
Click to expand...


too naive, you only got half of your post right,those 16,000 co called troops were ADVISORS,kennedy never sent in combat troops,only advisors. He increased the military advisors from 500 to 16,000 but AGAIN,thats all they were was ADVISORS.
JOHNSON sent in the combat troops. Boy you sure are cluless about the vietnam war.Even this propaganda piece video i have at home where it defends the lies of the government and our corrupt school system that kenendy got us into vietnam instead of the truth that Johnson did,even THEY admit that combat troops were never sent into vietnam till Jonson took office,that kennedy only increased advisors.

yeah you rest your case alright,it rests that you are clueless about the vietnam war as well as about the kennedy administration.

documents dont lie.here is the document he signed two months before his assassion that called for a complete withdrawel of vietnam by 1965.our game is over,you lose,checkmate.

JFK National Security Files

oh and your obviously ignorant that he resisted the policys of his military brass for all out war,policys that were drawn up by Eisenhower and nearly implemented in his last year in office.Policys Kennedy resisted but Johnson implemeted with the phony gulf of tonkin incident which both Mcnamara and the commander of that shitp have now come forward and admitted that they were never fired on.


Lbj got in and gave them their war they wanted reversing Jfk's policy to withdraw all military personal from vietnam completely by 1965.we know that to be true from documents from the kennedy administration that were found from a freedom of information act in the 90's. you should read the book AMERICAN TRAGEDY.it explains it all.

It is based on thousands of declassified documents from the Eisenhower,Kennedy,and Johnson administartions.this link talks a lillte about it.



http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/in...showtopic=6274

Here is also what I was posting earlier the document that proves he was going to completey pull us out of vietnam by 1965.It was no secret among the military.

In the pentagon papers back then according to members who served in the military at that time,it was all over the front pages of that paper with headlines reading-"Kennedy to pull out of vietnam by 1965."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/ar...4&relPageId=51

Oh and I think your talking actually talking about the GULF OF TONKIN incidennt.Its well known that Kennedy only sent in advisors,he never sent in combat troops.

Johnson esculated the war and gave the military the war they wanted with the phony gulf of tonkin incident firing on an unarmed vietnames ship and when they fired back,the media lied about the event saying they fired at us first provoking the war.thats when LBj sent in the combat troops and got the war started.Even the commander of that ship has now come out and said that they fired unprovoked at the vietnamese ship first.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which proves I am correct and you are cluless. the problem with that lie there you quoted where it says  it has to be taken with a grain of salt is jfk signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL OF VIETNAM by 1965 which johnson reversed two days before his assassination.
> 
> I also see your playing dodgeball that had it been Nixon elected in 1960,he would have got us into world war 3 with the soviets.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Way to avoid the facts.  Nice game of dodgeball there ignoring that Nixon in later years said he would have gone in and bombed them just like the military wanted Jfk to do but he wisely resisted.
> 
> *Oh and Jfk was a man of world peace,*contrary to many of the lies that have been spread over the years by our corrupt society and media,the missiles were already there when Jfk got in office.
> 
> They were put in place in Turkey under Eisenhower whom unlike vietnam,actually had a good reason for putting them there.Jfk and Kruschev had to make back channel meetings with each other because their governments were both doing a very good job of not carrying oput their directives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A man of peace would not have increased the number of troops in Vietnam from 500 to 16,000.  And that was from 500 'military advisors' to 16,000 combat troops.
> 
> I rest my case!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> too naive, you only got half of your post right,those 16,000 co called troops were ADVISORS,kennedy never sent in combat troops,only advisors. He increased the military advisors from 500 to 16,000 but AGAIN,thats all they were was ADVISORS.
> JOHNSON sent in the combat troops. Boy you sure are cluless about the vietnam war.Even this propaganda piece video i have at home where it defends the lies of the government and our corrupt school system that kenendy got us into vietnam instead of the truth that Johnson did,even THEY admit that combat troops were never sent into vietnam till Jonson took office,that kennedy only increased advisors.
> 
> yeah you rest your case alright,it rests that you are clueless about the vietnam war.
Click to expand...


I will reopen my case.

On edit, I did say combat troops in my first post in error.

I do not consider increasing the number of TROOPS in Vietnam from 500 to 16,000 to be an act of a man of peace.  You apparently do and I consider that extremely naïve.

Allow a couple of questions if you will. 

Were any of these TROOPS armed, and were they allowed to actually shoot at anyone?

When a 4 star General was sent to Vietnam in Feb, 62 to replace a Col and change an advisory GROUP to a Military Assistance COMMAND was that the act of a man of peace?

Many of these TROOPS were Green Berets, and they are trained to be the best of the best COMBAT troops.  They may have been acting as trainers, but they can and in many cases did engage in combat.

All you know about the Vietnam war and JFK is what lies that the liberal revisionists have written.


----------



## Billo_Really

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.


Nixon was a control freak and an asshole.

And fuck his dog Checkers!


----------



## TooTall

Billo_Really said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> Nixon was a control freak and an asshole.
> 
> And fuck his dog Checkers!
Click to expand...


From what I read, you and JFK would both fuck his dog Checkers if given the chance.


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> which proves I am correct and you are cluless. the problem with that lie there you quoted where it says  it has to be taken with a grain of salt is jfk signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL OF VIETNAM by 1965 which johnson reversed two days before his assassination.
> 
> I also see your playing dodgeball that had it been Nixon elected in 1960,he would have got us into world war 3 with the soviets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will believe that when you post a link to that document.
> 
> And only a fool would believe that the Russians would have gone to war over Cuba.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> A man of peace would not have increased the number of troops in Vietnam from 500 to 16,000.  And that was from 500 'military advisors' to 16,000 combat troops.
> 
> I rest my case!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> too naive, you only got half of your post right,those 16,000 co called troops were ADVISORS,kennedy never sent in combat troops,only advisors. He increased the military advisors from 500 to 16,000 but AGAIN,thats all they were was ADVISORS.
> JOHNSON sent in the combat troops. Boy you sure are cluless about the vietnam war.Even this propaganda piece video i have at home where it defends the lies of the government and our corrupt school system that kenendy got us into vietnam instead of the truth that Johnson did,even THEY admit that combat troops were never sent into vietnam till Jonson took office,that kennedy only increased advisors.
> 
> yeah you rest your case alright,it rests that you are clueless about the vietnam war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will reopen my case.
> 
> On edit, I did say combat troops in my first post in error.
> 
> I do not consider increasing the number of TROOPS in Vietnam from 500 to 16,000 to be an act of a man of peace.  You apparently do and I consider that extremely naïve.
> 
> Allow a couple of questions if you will.
> 
> Were any of these TROOPS armed, and were they allowed to actually shoot at anyone?
> 
> When a 4 star General was sent to Vietnam in Feb, 62 to replace a Col and change an advisory GROUP to a Military Assistance COMMAND was that the act of a man of peace?
> 
> Many of these TROOPS were Green Berets, and they are trained to be the best of the best COMBAT troops.  They may have been acting as trainers, but they can and in many cases did engage in combat.
> 
> All you know about the Vietnam war and JFK is what lies that the liberal revisionists have written.
Click to expand...


the FACTS are kennedy resisted his military brass for all out war like they wanted and had diologue with diem about establishing peaceful relations between the south and north,its all on record. thats the key word right there,ASSISTANCE.They ASSISTED the north vietcong and trained them how to defend themselves.the command post there was obviously just for protection against the vietcong if they attacked. AGAIN,jfk resisted the policys of the military brass for covert wars drawn up by Eisenhower which means STARTING them.Johnson did not.

Johnson got in and abondoned jfk's policys of diologue with them engaging in covert wars.

Rivisionists dont ignore FACTS like the document JFK signed in oct 63 calling for a complete withdrawel by 1965 which Johnson reversed two days later after the assassination with his document he signed.

Oh and even the LAMESTREAM media showed the casultys that occured under Kennedy when in sept 63 Walter Kronkite was interviewing him about the war and at the bottom left hand corner you see the words us casultys 82. thats a far cry from the 58,000 americans killed under those bastards Johnson and Nixon. doesnt sound to me like Jfk had an insterest in the war drawing up a document to get out completely by 1965 with under a 100 casultys by the end of his presidency.

if you were open minded,you would ask me about that book that documents and proves all this by David Kaiser called AMERICAN TRAGEDY,Eisenhower,Kennedy,Johnson and the origins of the vietnam war.AGAIN Kaiser went trough several thousand documents from the eisenhower,kennedy,and johnson administrations before he wrote that book.He backs up everything he says in his book. He is far more credible than you are. here is that link AGAIN on his book.read it and get  yourself educated.

The Vietnam War and the Assassination of JFK - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum here is what the link says below since you appear too lazy to click on links.





In his book, The Military-Industrial Complex, Sidney Lens argues: &#8220;It is no accident that Washington has been almost universally on the side of conservative forces in the developing areas &#8211; Syngman Rhee in Korea, Chiang Kai-shek in China, the Shah in Iran, the militarists throughout Latin America, the king in Jordan, the king in Saudia Arabia, the military regimes in Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam. These conservative elements, to secure their own &#8220;vested interests,&#8221; have been willing to accept American military and economic support in return for concessions to American &#8220;vested interests&#8221;. Nor is it an accident that by and large the same legislators &#8211; Stennis, Russell, Rivers, Mundt, Goldwater, Tower, McClellan, to name a few &#8211; who are the fiercest advocates of military spending and military ventures, are also the fiercest opponents of social programs such as medicare, higher minimum wages, antipoverty, social security, and favourable trade union legislation.&#8221; (1) 

In 1960 Kennedy presented himself as someone who held conservative views on both domestic and foreign issues. As Richard D. Mahoney points out in his book, Sons and Brothers: &#8220;As senator, Kennedy had zigzagged through the long obstacle course of civil rights legislation, siding in most cases, as a Ted Sorensen memo to Bobby proudly explained in December 1959, &#8216;with our friends in the South.&#8217; He meant white friends.&#8221; (2)

Mahoney goes on to argue: &#8220;The most entrenched and skilled leaders of that majority in the Senate &#8211; McClellan of Arkansas, Eastland of Mississippi, Ervin of North Carolina, and Fulbright of Arkansas &#8211; were all vehement opponents of civil rights as well as close friends of Bobby Kennedy.&#8221; Kennedy admits in several interviews that were recorded as part of the Oral History Project, that he had several conversations with people like McClellan and Eastland during the campaign to assure them that the Kennedy administration would not promote the &#8220;civil rights issue&#8221;. (3) 

Harris Wofford, Kennedy&#8217;s special assistant for civil rights, supports this view in his memoirs, Of Kennedys and Kings. He points out that Kennedy was forced into taking a stand on the issue because of the activities of Martin Luther King and pressure groups like the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) and Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). For example, Kennedy did all he could to get the Freedom Riders to call off their activities in 1961. (4)

Once in power, Kennedy appeared to support the foreign policy established by Dwight Eisenhower. The historian, David Kaiser, argues that Eisenhower&#8217;s policies &#8220;called for a military response to Communist aggression almost anywhere that it might occur&#8221;. Kaiser provides evidence that this strategy was &#8220;adopted by the State and Defense Departments in 1954-1956 and approved secretly by President Eisenhower.&#8221; (5)

This policy began with the overthrow by the CIA of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán in Guatemala in the summer of 1954. According to one historian: &#8220;The Agency had learned a lesson from the Guatemalan revolution in the early 1950s, when a nationalist government expropriated the land and the public service enterprises of U.S. monopolies to the benefit of the peasants and the population in general. This experience gave rise to a program of infiltrating agents into countries convulsed by communist ideas.&#8221; (6)

In the final months of his administration, Eisenhower was mainly concerned with trying to overthrow the government of Fidel Castro in Cuba. He was also worried about events in Laos and Vietnam. However, Kaiser convincingly argues that Kennedy subtly changed foreign policy after he gained office. &#8220;Ironically, while Eisenhower&#8217;s supposedly cautious approach in foreign policy had frequently been contrasted with his successors&#8217; apparent aggressiveness, Kennedy actually spent much of his term resisting policies developed and approved under Eisenhower, both in Southeast Asia and elsewhere. He also had to deal with the legacy of the Eisenhower administration&#8217;s disastrous attempts to create a pro-Western rather than a neutral government in Laos &#8211; a policy he quickly reversed, thereby avoiding the need for American military intervention there.&#8221; (7)

Kaiser admits that he the Kennedy administration did increase the number of American military personnel in South Vietnam from 600 in 1960 to 17,500 in 1963. However, although he sincerely wanted to help the South Vietnamese government cope with the Viet Cong he rejected war as a way to do so. Kennedy&#8217;s view of America&#8217;s involvement in Southeast Asia was expressed clearly at his first ever press conference. When asked about Laos he expressed his intentions to help create &#8220;a peaceful country &#8211; an independent country not dominated by either side but concerned with the life of the people within the country.&#8221; (8) This was a marked departure from Eisenhower&#8217;s policy of supporting anti-communist military dictatorships in Southeast Asia and the Americas. 

This analysis of Kennedy&#8217;s foreign policy is supported by two of his most important aides, Kenneth P. O&#8217;Donnell and David F. Powers. In their book, Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye: Memories of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, they describe how on 19th January, 1960, Eisenhower briefed Kennedy on &#8220;various important items of unfinished business&#8221;. This included news about &#8220;the rebel force that was being trained by the CIA in Guatemala to invade Cuba.&#8221; O&#8217;Donnell and Powers claimed that: &#8220;Eisenhower urged him to keep on supporting this plan to overthrow Castro. But Eisenhower talked mostly about Laos, which he then regarded as the most dangerous trouble spot in Southeast Asia. He mentioned South Vietnam only as one of the nations that would fall into the hands of the Communists if the United States failed to maintain the anti-Communist regime in Laos.&#8221; Kennedy was shocked by what Eisenhower told him. He later told his two aides: &#8220;There he sat, telling me to get ready to put ground forces into Asia, the thing he himself had been carefully avoiding for the last eight years.&#8221; (9)

According to David Kaiser, it was not only the CIA and the Pentagon who wanted him to send troops to Laos and Vietnam. Members of his own administration, including Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, Dean Rusk, Alexis Johnson, McGeorge Bundy, Walt Rostow and Roswell Gilpatric, were also strongly in favour of Eisenhower&#8217;s policy of &#8220;intervention in remote areas backed by nuclear weapons&#8221;. (10)

Kaiser suggests the reason for this was that &#8220;these civilians were all from the GI generation, and to varying degrees they saw themselves as continuing the struggle against aggression and tyranny that had dominated their youth.&#8221; However, it has to be remembered that Johnson, McNamara and Gilpatric had all played an important role in the ensuring that General Dynamics got the TFX contract. (11) Is it possible that they had other motives for involving the United States in a long-drawn out war? 

Kennedy continued with his policy of trying to develop &#8220;independent&#8221; Third World countries. In September, 1962, Souvanna Phouma became head of a new coalition government in Laos. This included the appointment of a left-leaning Quinim Pholsema as Foreign Minister. However, Kennedy found it impossible to persuade Ngo Dinh Diem to broaden his government in South Vietnam. 

Kennedy continued to resist all attempts to persuade him to send troops to Vietnam. His policy was reinforced by the Bay of Pigs operation. Kennedy told his assistant secretary of state, Roger Hilsman: &#8220;The Bay of Pigs has taught me a number of things. One is not to trust generals or the CIA, and the second is that if the American people do not want to use American troops to remove a Communist regime 90 miles away from our coast, how can I ask them to use troops to remove a Communist regime 9,000 miles away? (12)

In April, 1962, Kennedy told McGeorge Bundy to &#8220;seize upon any favourable moment to reduce our involvement&#8221; in Vietnam. (13) In September, 1963, Robert Kennedy expressed similar views at a meeting of the National Security Council: &#8220;The first question was whether a Communist takeover could be successfully resisted with any government. If it could not, now was the time to get out of Vietnam entirely, rather than waiting.&#8221; (14)

The decision by Kennedy to withdraw from Vietnam was confirmed by John McCone, the director of the CIA: &#8220;When Kennedy took office you will recall that he won the election because he claimed that the Eisenhower administration had been weak on communism and weak in the treatment of Castro and so forth. So the first thing Kennedy did was to send a couple of men to Vietnam to survey the situation. They came back with the recommendation that the military assistance group be increased from 800 to 25,000. That was the start of our involvement. Kennedy, I believe, realized he'd made a mistake because 25,000 US military in a country such as South Vietnam means that the responsibility for the war flows to (the US military) and out of the hands of the South Vietnamese. So Kennedy, in the weeks prior to his death, realized that we had gone overboard and actually was in the process of withdrawing when he was killed and Johnson took over.&#8221; (15)

On 1st April, 1963, the attempt by Kennedy to create a all-party coalition government in Laos suffered a terrible blow when Quinim Pholsema, the left-wing Foreign Minister, was assassinated. As David Kaiser has pointed out: &#8220;In light of subsequent revelations about CIA assassination plots, this episode inevitably arouses some suspicion.&#8221; (16)

It would seem that Laos was not the only country where Kennedy was trying to develop a coalition government. According to Lamar Waldron and Thom Hartman, in the early months of 1963, a plan was put into action that would result in a palace coup led by &#8220;one of Castro&#8217;s inner circle, himself a well-known revolutionary hero.&#8221; Waldron and Hartman argue that the &#8220;coup leader would be part of the new Provisional Government in Cuba, along with a select group of Cuban exiles &#8211; approved by the Kennedys &#8211; who ranged from conservative to progressive.&#8221; (17) 

Kennedy told Mike Mansfield in the spring of 1963 that he now agreed with his thinking &#8220;on the need for a complete military withdrawal from Vietnam&#8221;. After the meeting with Mansfield, Kennedy told Kenneth O&#8217;Donnell that when he pulled out of Vietnam in 1965: &#8220;I&#8217;ll become one of the most unpopular Presidents in history. I&#8217;ll be damned everywhere as a communist appeaser. But I don&#8217;t care. If I tried to pull out completely now from Vietnam, we would have Joe McCarthy red scare on our hands, but I can do it after I&#8217;m re-elected. So we had better make damned sure that I am reelected.&#8221; (18)

In his book, Sons & Brothers, Richard D. Mahoney remarked: &#8220;Truman had lost his presidency over the &#8220;loss of China,&#8221; which in turn had touched off the anticommunist witch hunts by Senator Joseph McCarthy. Troubled as Kennedy was about slipping into the Asian land war, he temporized on the method of disengagement.&#8221; (19)

On 10th June, 1963, Kennedy made a commencement address at the American University. &#8220;In a speech written in the White House without Pentagon or State Department clearance, Kennedy called specifically, and for the first time, for a whole new attitude towards the soviet union and a greater effort for true peace.&#8221; (20)

Nine days later Kennedy discussed a new proposal by the State Department to take overt military action against North Vietnam. Kennedy was told that the Pentagon wanted to start bombing North Vietnam and the mining of North Vietnamese ports. (21)

As David Kaiser points out in American Tragedy, Kennedy refused to approve this plan: &#8220;Ever since assuming the Presidency, Kennedy had received a long series of proposals for war in Southeast Asia from the State and Defence Departments. Rejecting them all, he had established the goals of a neutral regime in Laos and an effort to assist the South Vietnamese against the Viet Cong.&#8221; (22)

Kennedy continued to have problems from the leaders of the military. On 9th July, 1963, General Maxwell Taylor explained to the National Security Council that individual Joint Chiefs did not believe that an atmospheric test ban would serve the nation well. Sixteen days later, Averell Harriman, Andrei Gromyko and Lord Hailsham signed the atmospheric test ban in Moscow. 

On 14th August, Diem was informed that the U.S. government would be unable to continue their present relationship if Diem did not issue a statement reaffirming a conciliatory policy towards the Buddhists and other critics of his regime. Ten days later, Ted Szulc of the New York Times reported that &#8220;policy planners in Washington&#8221; had reached the stage where they would prefer a military junta in South Vietnam to a government ruled by Diem. (23) 

Kennedy also gave the order for the withdrawal of 1,000 American personnel by the end of 1963. The plan involved taking the men out in four increments, in order to achieve maximum press coverage. General Maxwell Taylor spoke out against this policy and argued that the Joint Chiefs of Staff believed no withdrawal of troops should take place &#8220;until the political and religious tensions now confronting the government of South Vietnam have eased.&#8221; (24) 

In an interview with Walter Cronkite on 2nd September, Kennedy clearly stated his policy on Vietnam: &#8220;I don&#8217;t think that unless a greater effort is made by the government to win popular support that the war can be won out there. In the final analysis, it is their war. They are the ones who have to win or lose it. We can help them, we can give them equipment, we can send our men out there as advisers, but they have to win it.&#8221; Kennedy then went on to criticize Diem&#8217;s &#8220;repressions against the Buddhists&#8221;. (25) 

On 9th September, Henry Cabot Lodge met with Diem and threatened him that aid would be cut-off unless Ngo Dinh Nhu left his government. Yet according to a New York Times story, the CIA continued to back Nhu. This included John Richardson, the Saigon CIA station chief disbursing a regular monthly payment of $250,000 to Nhu and his men. (26) Four days later, Lodge suggested that Richardson should be ordered back to Washington as &#8220;he symbolized long-standing American support for Nhu.&#8221; John McCone defended Richardson and objected to the idea that he should be replaced by someone like Edward Lansdale. 

Kennedy met with Robert McNamara and General Maxwell Taylor on 2nd October, 1963. Kennedy told McNamara to announce to the press the immediate withdrawal of one thousand soldiers from Vietnam. Kennedy added that he would &#8220;probably withdraw all American forces from Vietnam by the end of 1965&#8221;. When McNamara was leaving the meeting to talk to the white house reporters, Kennedy called to him: &#8220;And tell them that means all of the helicopter pilots too.&#8221; In his statement to the press McNamara softened the President&#8217;s views by stating that in his judgment &#8220;the major part of the U.S. military task&#8221; in Vietnam could be &#8220;completed by the end of 1965.&#8221; (27)

Diem and Nhu were murdered on 1st November, 1963. The news reached Kennedy the following day. According to David Kaiser, Kennedy &#8220;left the room in shock&#8221;. (28) Despite this news, Kennedy made no move to change or cancel his troop reduction. As his aides, Kenneth P. O&#8217;Donnell and David F. Powers pointed out: &#8220;The collapse of the Diem government and the deaths of its dictatorial leaders made the President only more skeptical of our military advice from Saigon and more determined to pull out of the Vietnam War.&#8221; (29)

It has been suggested by William Colby, Frederick Nolting, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon that Kennedy had ordered Diem&#8217;s assassination. There is no evidence for this view. In fact, the behaviour of Diem was giving Kennedy a good excuse to withdraw support for his government. Kennedy knew that Diem was incapable of providing a coalition government that would gain the support of the South Vietnamese people. Robert Kennedy argued against the assassination of Diem as it would leave the government in the &#8220;hands of one man that we don&#8217;t know very well.&#8221; (30) The Kennedy brothers were aware that the man who took control in South Vietnam would probably be no better than Diem at establishing a coalition government. The assassination of Diem was therefore not part of Kennedy&#8217;s policy to withdraw from Vietnam.

Notes 

1. Stanley Lens, The Military-Industrial Complex, 1970 (page 146)

2. Richard D. Mahoney, Sons and Brothers, 1999 (page 117)

3. Edwin Guthman and Jeffrey Shulman (ed.), Robert Kennedy in his Own Words, 1988

4. Harris Wofford, Of Kennedy and Kings, 1980 (pages 103-200)

5. David Kaiser, American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson and the Origins of the Vietnam War, 2000 (page 2)

6. Fabian Escalante, CIA Covert Operations 1959-62: The Cuba Project, 2004 (page 12)

7. David Kaiser, American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson and the Origins of the Vietnam War, 2000 (page 2)

8. Howard W. Chase and Allen H. Lerman, Kennedy and the Press: The News Conferences, 1965 (page 25)

9. Kenneth P. O&#8217;Donnell & David F. Powers, Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye: Memories of John Fitzgerald


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will believe that when you post a link to that document.
> 
> And only a fool would believe that the Russians would have gone to war over Cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just did,you ignored it and are obviously in denial that they would have gone to war.they wouldnt just stand by and watch america bomb cuba.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Billo_Really

TooTall said:


> From what I read, you and JFK would both fuck his dog Checkers if given the chance.


Well, he was a friendly little pup.

You mean to tell me, you've never dated out of your species?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

this is from another poster i came across,who just like David Kaiser,has done his homework very well.Im impressed with him.He knows his stuff.


Eisenhower got us into Vietnam. People blame Johnson mostly because he escalated the war, but we were already involved there when he became president. 

Nixon got us out, but Nixon was elected on the basis of his 'secret' plan to end the war. During the 1968 campaign he said he knew how to end it, but couldn't give the details for fear of tipping his hand to the enemy. 

According to the memoirs of his own chief of staff, H.R. Haldemann, Nixon's plan all along was simply to declare victory and pull out. He held a cabinet meeting soon after his inauguration in 1969 and asked his cabinet members to comment. Henry Kissinger, then only a national security adviser, told him if he ended the war then he would cause a recession from the cutback in federal spending. Kissinger convinced Nixon to keep the war going another 4 years just so a recession wouldn't threaten his second term. 

So in the end, more than half of our 50,000 US deaths, more than a million Vietnamise deaths, and by our own CIA's estimate, more than 600,000 deaths in Cambodia (-before- the rise of Pol Pot and the Kmer Rouge and all the 'killing fields' stuff), Nixon caused all that just to get his sorry a** re-elected to a second term. Which he couldn't even finish. 

Also it was found that Nixon's people had been in touch with the North Vietnamise peace negotiators and had convinced them not to sign the treaty with Johnson. It's super illegal for a presidential campaign to influence foreign policy. Reagan's campaign did it too, in Iran. 
__________________
must see video.


Kennedy sent peace keeping troops in and Johnson committed ground troops..

this is from a discussion of asking who got us in vietnam and this poster nailed it as well.

Ike in, Johnson provoked the invasion


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## LA RAM FAN

STILL MORE ON EISENHOWER,KENNEDY,JOhNSON,NIXON AND THE VIETNAM WAR.


Eisenhower 1953-1961 

Eisenhower was the first president to go head first into the Vietnam conflicts. Eisenhower did not support the Geneva Accords signed by France and Vietnam in the summer of 1954. The Accord made the 17th parallel dividing the country of Vietnam to north and south section until two years when they would hold a free election for all of the country. Eisenhower and his secretary of state John Foster Dulles believed that the agreement gave the communist too much power in the north. Instead Eisenhower decided to create the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO). This treatys purpose was to stop any more communist influence in Southeast Asia. Using the SEATO as a cover, Eisenhower started to help build a new nation in South Vietnam. In 1955 GVN was born, the government of the republic of Vietnam, the leader being Ngo Dinh Diem, after a landslide election. 

Soon after Diem claimed his country was under attack from communist. In 1957 the Vietnam War began. Diem imprisoned all those he viewed as being suspected communist and his people became outraged, administering protest and demonstrations. 

From 1956-1960, North Vietnam did all it could to put political pressure on Diems regime, gathering followers in the south to overthrow him. Since the false imprisonments it was not hard to rally rural areas in the south. This was how the National Liberation Front (NFL) was created. 

Kennedy 1961-1963 

By 1961 Kennedy was now in office and he had a new team to investigate the conditions in South Vietnam. This investigation was known as the December 1961 White Papers. The content in the white paper was basically a cry for more aid to Vietnam. Kennedy decided to send more advisers and machinery but would not send troops. In 1963 Kennedy  was assassinated. 

Lyndon B. Johnson 1963-1969 

This was the president in office when the Gulf of Tonkin attack occurred. Two U.S ships were attacked off the coast of Vietnam in neutral water. The first attack was legitimate but no one knows if the second actually occurred. Johnson decided to use this situation as a chance to cover up the resolution that gave Johnson more war powers. This was called the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. The resolution was a series of air strikes against the North Vietnam territory. In 1965, the NFL attacked U.S. bases in South Vietnam and Johnson ordered a bombing mission called Operation Rolling Thunder. Johnson was the one who sent the first combat troops to Vietnam. Johnsons hope was that the North Vietnam would get tired of the war and want peace talks. The draft was instituted and anti-war movements reached an extreme. Protests on campuses erupted everywhere, Kent State being one of them. 

In 1968 the North Vietnam army led a series of attacks against major cities in South Vietnam known as the Tet Offensive, to force American to the bargaining table. Although South Vietnam and American forces pushed the North Vietnam army out of the cities, it was still a political loss to America and South Vietnam. Johnson left his office when time was up in disgrace. Making it known he will not accept the democratic renomination. 

Richard Nixon 1969-1974 

Nixon claimed he had a secret plan to the war and won the election. He used a process called Vietnamization. This was a method of training the South Vietnam troops to fight and then slowly pulling American troops out of Vietnam. During Nixons years the war was brought into Cambodia and Lao to try to find pockets of communist along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. 

Finally a peace talk emerged but South Vietnam would not settle. Leaving the North Vietnam to intensify its position this was retaliated by the Christmas Bombing. In January 1973 a peace treaty was signed ending the war for Americans but not for South Vietnam. North Vietnam took over the south after the American troops left putting an end to the Vietnam War. 

 Johnson is the one who always gets the real blame. What a shame because 

Nixon expanded the war into Laos and Cambodia and his secret plan was lame; so he gets my vote for making the situation worse.


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## LA RAM FAN

still more proof Ike got us into vietnam and JFK'S policys were different than his,believing in peaceful resolutions instead of a military combat presence.

Samuel Ebenreiter : JFK's Positive Impact on American Policies in Vietnam

He CLEARLY was against sending in combat troops.major difference between increasing ADVISORS who were there just to defend themseleves and to train the south vietnamese and sending in combat troops like Johnson did. 

Thank god Dick Nixon was not elected president in 1960 because he was so immature back then,that he not only would have bombed cuba getting us into world war three with the soviets,"remember we were just a a hairs length away from a nuclear war with them even with Kennedy NOT bombing cuba like his military brass wanted him to do,something Nixon would have obliged them on." But while vice president under Ike,he ALSO tried to get IKE to NUKE the north vietnamese in vietnam.Eisenhowerr smartlyy though,was wise enough to not listen to him and knew better thank god.


There were some significant differences between the Eisenhower administration and that of JFK's.  One major one was the importance placed on Laos. As Kennedy was taking over he met with Eisenhower and his counselors to talk about the situation.  Eisenhower believed that if the U.S. gave up Laos it would topple the rest of Southeast Asia, and thus his administration attempted to model a pro-Western government in Laos. Although Kennedy agreed about the importance of Laos, he disagreed with attempting to turn Laos into a pro-Western government, mostly because of the weak military presence there.  He simply wanted a peaceful resolution, free of war. He said in a Presidential news conference in March of 1961 that he wanted to "make it clear to the American people and to all of the world that all we want in Laos is peace and not war, a truly neutral government and not a cold war pawn, a settlement concluded at the conference table and not on the battle field."[5]  Rather than listen to the Eisenhower administration or his own Joint Chiefs of Staff, who wanted to use U.S. military intervention and nuclear weapons, Kennedy negotiated a solution to the conflict in Laos, agreeing to a neutral Laotian government and obtaining Nikita Khrushchev and Ho Chi Mihn's cooperation in letting Laos go.[6]  Even with all the differences there were some obvious similarities between the administrations.  The administrations preceding Kennedy supported sending aid to Vietnam, whether financial or non-combat military forces.  Kennedy continued this trend, while gradually escalating the amount of support, yet continuing the idea of refusing to send combat troops.  He reiterated his stance against sending combat troops to Vietnam in a News Conference in February of 1962. He stated, "we have not sent combat troops there, although the training missions that we have there have been instructed that if they are fired upon they are, of course, to fire back, to protect themselves, but we have not sent combat troops, in the generally understood sense of the word."[7]


----------



## Sunshine

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



OK, so I am old enough to remember all this stuff including that election.  Kennedy had to have Texas to win that election.  That is why he chose Johnson as a running mate.  Once elected Kennedy started cranking down our involvement in Vietnam.  Then he went to Dallas and was assassinated.  Think about it.  He was assassinated in Dallas.  Then his alleged assassin was killed.  I do remember Lyndon Johnson cranking that war up, contrary to what Kennedy had started.  My big brother was draft age, so that was an issue at our house.  At the time I was in high school and in general far more interested in boys and cheerleading than I was in politics.  Many years later I would learn that LBJ had considerable financial interest in the equipment that was being used in that war.  More than enough motive for him to lure JFK to Dallas and have him killed.  

Nixon?  I recall after he was elected the heat was on to get us out of Vietnam.  I remember one speech in which Nixon said we had to stay in Vietnam to 'save face' because that was important in the east.  Save face.  LOL.  Like that could have ever happened.  I do like the military channel and there was a show on last week about Sun TZy and The Art of War.   According to that, we were fighting in Vietnam using chess as our model and they were using Tszu's model, which would ensure that we could never win in Vietnam.  Also, I read some years later that China was supplying men for to bolster the communist forces.  Of course Nixon, I believe, ended it, but he did a serious about face because it was not his intent when he was elected.


----------



## Sunshine

9/11 inside job said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason why the Cuban missile crisis occurred was because JFK projected an image of weakness and vacillation.  If it had been Nixon, it never would have started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh brother, we would have had world war three had  it been Dick Nixon in office .
> 
> why do people keep playing dodgeball not even bothering to read the post just what the thread title says and only come on with opinions instead of facts?
Click to expand...


History has been kind to Nixon.  I don't believe that kindness is well deserved.


----------



## Sunshine

*Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965. *

Thus the assassination.  People with a huge financial interest in that war were NOT going to let that happen.


----------



## Sunshine

> "I like to believe that people, in the long run, are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
> 
> Dwight Eisenhower



I definitely think Ike had his finger on the pulse of America when he said this.  I also think the organization he started, People to People International, has been a step toward getting people to want peace.  I have traveled with PTPI myself and it is a worthwhile organization.


----------



## hangover

So many issues to cover on this thread.

First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.

Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.

Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov


----------



## Sunshine

hangover said:


> So many issues to cover on this thread.
> 
> First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.
> 
> Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.
> 
> Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. *Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.*
> http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov



You don't know that.


----------



## hangover

Sunshine said:


> hangover said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many issues to cover on this thread.
> 
> First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.
> 
> Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.
> 
> Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. *Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.*
> http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know that.
Click to expand...


Yeah, and Fukashima is clean energy...BWAH HA HA HA HA!


----------



## Euroconservativ

Toro said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP.  You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan too.
Click to expand...


And McCain and Romney too

oh wait... 




Toro said:


> As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.



And he cut the top federal income tax rate from 70% in 1981 to 28%; which is the root of all evil, according to modern liberals.

Under Reagan, the threshold for paying the top rate went from $200K to $30K (then Bush raised it again). In Germany, right now, the income tax rate for a person earning &#8364;50K or more (or a married couple earning &#8364;100K) is only 3 points lower than the rate for a person who earns millions: 42% and 45%. German socialists propose (and conservatives reject it) a tax hike to 48% not only on the super wealthy but on anyone earning &#8364;100K or more, because that's truly big revenue. The infamous french 75% on millionaires (France has a decent amount of them) has only raised 300 million/year in additional revenue, but demagoguery always attracts voters.


----------



## gipper

Sunshine said:


> "I like to believe that people, in the long run, are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
> 
> Dwight Eisenhower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely think Ike had his finger on the pulse of America when he said this.  I also think the organization he started, People to People International, has been a step toward getting people to want peace.  I have traveled with PTPI myself and it is a worthwhile organization.
Click to expand...


And yet, Ike said nothing about the JFK coup d'e'tat.  He had to suspect the warfare state had something to do with it...particularly after LBJ immediately expanded America's involvement in Vietnam, overturning JFK's intentions to bug out.

While Ike warned of the heinous nature of the military industrial complex and the wars it intended to mire America in, he did little to prevent it.  A terrible failure of leadership.


----------



## Toro

Euroconservativ said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP.  You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And McCain and Romney too
> 
> oh wait...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And he cut the top federal income tax rate from 70% in 1981 to 28%; which is the root of all evil, according to modern liberals.
> 
> Under Reagan, the threshold for paying the top rate went from $200K to $30K (then Bush raised it again). In Germany, right now, the income tax rate for a person earning 50K or more (or a married couple earning 100K) is only 3 points lower than the rate for a person who earns millions: 42% and 45%. German socialists propose (and conservatives reject it) a tax hike to 48% not only on the super wealthy but on anyone earning 100K or more, because that's truly big revenue. The infamous french 75% on millionaires (France has a decent amount of them) has only raised 300 million/year in additional revenue, but demagoguery always attracts voters.
Click to expand...


You miss the point. 

A governor who has raised taxes many times would not be nominated for President in today's Republican Party. Reagan as governor of California raised taxes many times. He did not cut them as he did as President. Ergo, he would be called a RINO by today's Small Tent Republicans and have zero chance of winning the nomination.


----------



## Katzndogz

Nixon may have been crooked, but JFK got elected only due to some massive voter fraud.  As it was, the election was razor thin.


----------



## editec

MaryL said:


> This is a good thread. If Nixon had been elected in 60', the "bay of pigs" fiasco may never have happened,



The Bay of Pigs event was in planning before JFK took office.  It was an ongoing OP that Kennedy did not (at that time) have the confidence to call off.

FYI, I do not think any POTUS has liked the CIA since its inception.  Kennedy very quickly learned NOT to trust those Skull and Bones Yalies once he was in office.

Then *_they_ killed him.

* they = the MASTERS


----------



## LA RAM FAN

editec said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a good thread. If Nixon had been elected in 60', the "bay of pigs" fiasco may never have happened,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bay of Pigs event was in planning before JFK took office.  It was an ongoing OP that Kennedy did not (at that time) have the confidence to call off.
> 
> FYI, I do not think any POTUS has liked the CIA since its inception.  Kennedy very quickly learned NOT to trust those Skull and Bones Yalies once he was in office.
> 
> Then *_they_ killed him.
> 
> * they = the MASTERS
Click to expand...


well said.Yeah Jfk inheirted the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.as i said earlier,the plan they presented to Eisenhower for it was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.

Like George Phillips said earlier,had Nixon been elected,they would have gave him air support because the plans was designed to succeed under their boy Nixon whome they thought was going to get elected,but designed to fail under Kennedy so the american people would hopefully think-Hey we got the wrong guy in there.But it didnt work.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.



amazing how the sheople are truely ignorant.Its documented fact that Eisenhower was the FIRST president that first got america engaged in vietnam, Jfk inherited vietnam from Ike as i have spelled out many times on this thread. Thanks to Ikes policys,vietnam got esculated because the american COMBAT operations in vietnam did not start until AFTER johnson become president. 

Matter of fact,I just finished reading a book talking about the administrations of IKE,JFK,LBJ,AND NIXON and they have it documented that it was in "1964" when our first COMBAT troops were deployed.that was under LBj.Jfk only sent in advisors. Johnson got the vietnam war going in full gear with his phony gulf of tonkin incident. Policys that were drawn up by Eisenhower in his final months in office that Jfk resisted but Lbj did not.

Kennedy told his aides when he was sworn in he was shoked when he had a briefing from Eisenhower saying Eisenhower wanted JFK to commit to ground troops to vietnam,a POLICY he was trying to avoid his whole entire time in office.

LBJ and Nixon were the ones to thank for the mass muders of 58,000 men. men who would have not lost their lives had Kennedy been reelected since he was going to pull us out of war by 1965.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

jwoodie said:


> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).



Amazing display in historical ignorance on your part alright.JFK INHERITED the cuban missile crisis from Eisenhower.The missile crisis happened because of Eisenhower.

HE was the one that installed those missiles in Turkey in the first place.They were already there when Kenendy took office. Khrschchev begged Ike to get the missiles out of turkey and he would not listen to him.

Thank god for the country that Kennedy got elected otherwise Nixon would have done what the military wanted thanks to Ike putting the missiles there in the first place,he would have bombed cuba like the military brass wanted Jfk to do that he wisely resisted,and Nixon would have started a nuclear war.You just helped prove my point FOR me.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

its funny,i was just talking with someone the other day who was there when JFK made a stop to her hometown as senator campaining for the presidency.she said the thing she liked most about him was how after the bay of pigs disater,he stopped listening to the military during the cuban missile crisis and was really impressed with how he got us out of it.I was impressed to see someone from an older generation that understood that.a lot of them dont.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Sunshine said:


> *Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965. *
> 
> Thus the assassination.  People with a huge financial interest in that war were NOT going to let that happen.



amen to that,they were NOT going to let him leave dallas alive.


----------



## georgephillip

hangover said:


> So many issues to cover on this thread.
> 
> First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.
> 
> Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.
> 
> Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.
> http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov


"On 27 October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers and the aircraft carrier USS Randolph located the diesel-powered nuclear-armed Soviet Foxtrot-class submarine B-59 near Cuba. 

"Despite being in international waters, the Americans started dropping practice depth charges, explosives intended to force the submarine to come to the surface for identification. 

"There had been no contact from Moscow for a number of days and, although the submarine's crew had earlier been picking up U.S. civilian radio broadcasts, once B-59 began attempting to hide from its U.S. Navy pursuers, it was too deep to monitor any radio traffic, so those on board did not know whether war had broken out.[5] 

"The captain of the submarine, Valentin Grigorievitch Savitsky, believing that a war might already have started, wanted to launch a nuclear torpedo.[6]"

*Had that torpedo been launched it is worth pondering whether or not this thread would have ever existed. In my case, I was living a few miles from a major USAF base at that time, and I'm pretty sure I would not be around to participate.*

Vasili Arkhipov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## LA RAM FAN

georgephillip said:


> hangover said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many issues to cover on this thread.
> 
> First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.
> 
> Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.
> 
> Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.
> http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov
> 
> 
> 
> "On 27 October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers and the aircraft carrier USS Randolph located the diesel-powered nuclear-armed Soviet Foxtrot-class submarine B-59 near Cuba.
> 
> "Despite being in international waters, the Americans started dropping practice depth charges, explosives intended to force the submarine to come to the surface for identification.
> 
> "There had been no contact from Moscow for a number of days and, although the submarine's crew had earlier been picking up U.S. civilian radio broadcasts, once B-59 began attempting to hide from its U.S. Navy pursuers, it was too deep to monitor any radio traffic, so those on board did not know whether war had broken out.[5]
> 
> "The captain of the submarine, Valentin Grigorievitch Savitsky, believing that a war might already have started, wanted to launch a nuclear torpedo.[6]"
> 
> *Had that torpedo been launched it is worth pondering whether or not this thread would have ever existed. In my case, I was living a few miles from a major USAF base at that time, and I'm pretty sure I would not be around to participate.*
> 
> Vasili Arkhipov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Good points you both made.However the thing that very few people realise -"you being one of the few exceptions since i know you know this to be true." is had Dick Nixon been elected,he would have gotten us into a nuclear war with the russians.Unlike JFK,he was a yes man for the military brass.proof of that is he extended the war in vietnam after the lying bastard lied to the american people that he was going to end it.

He could have ended it in 69 but he extended it and let it go on another 4 more years.Him and Johnson murdered those 58,00 americans.He gave the military brass the war they wanted in vietnam just like Johnson did and he would have pleased the military brass in 61 as well by bombing cuba just like they wanted kenned to do and were infuriated with him for not doing so.Nixon even said in later years,that had he been president back then,he would have gone in and bombed them.and as immature as he was back then always trting to tell IKE to nuke Laos which Ike wisely did not listen to him on,you can count on it that Nixon wasnt just all talk back then in the late 60's saying he would have gone in and bombed them.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

georgephillip said:


> hangover said:
> 
> 
> 
> So many issues to cover on this thread.
> 
> First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.
> 
> Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.
> 
> Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.
> http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov
> 
> 
> 
> "On 27 October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers and the aircraft carrier USS Randolph located the diesel-powered nuclear-armed Soviet Foxtrot-class submarine B-59 near Cuba.
> 
> "Despite being in international waters, the Americans started dropping practice depth charges, explosives intended to force the submarine to come to the surface for identification.
> 
> "There had been no contact from Moscow for a number of days and, although the submarine's crew had earlier been picking up U.S. civilian radio broadcasts, once B-59 began attempting to hide from its U.S. Navy pursuers, it was too deep to monitor any radio traffic, so those on board did not know whether war had broken out.[5]
> 
> "The captain of the submarine, Valentin Grigorievitch Savitsky, believing that a war might already have started, wanted to launch a nuclear torpedo.[6]"
> 
> *Had that torpedo been launched it is worth pondering whether or not this thread would have ever existed. In my case, I was living a few miles from a major USAF base at that time, and I'm pretty sure I would not be around to participate.*
> 
> Vasili Arkhipov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


yeah that man along with Jfk and Kruschev were instrumental in us avoding the cold war.we couldnt have had 3 better men  making the decisions back then for our future of the globe.


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history as well as what really goes on in the country currently.
> 
> Like Bendog said,-
> Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.
> 
> Jfk inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower fool.The TRUE history of vietnam that you dont hear from our corrupt public schools  is in Eisenhowers last year in office,he drew up plans of military esculation for vietnam that was nearly implememted in final year.He was strongly anti communist and a war mongrel hawk.
> 
> Jfk was a man of world peace-"which you obviously dont want to see ever happen."
> 
> vietnam was on the backburner of his agenda while President with much more pressing needs like the congo,cuba ,berlin and establishing peaceful relations with the russians.
> 
> He believed in open diologue with other world leaders.That infuriated the establishment.
> 
> He resisted the plans drawn up by Eisenhower in his last year in office for all out war in vietnam that the military urged him to partake in.
> 
> Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.
> 
> Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of vietnam,but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.
> 
> They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.
> 
> Lyndon Johnson got in,and he reversed Kennedys policy just two days later after the assassination esculating the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.
> 
> He implemened the plans Eisenhower drew up for military esculation with covert wars by the CIA that Jfk resisted from the military brass.
> 
> oh and as far as those 57,000 american lives lost? hate to break your heart,but you have those two bastards Johnson and Dick Nixon to thank for that. In an interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 when he interviewing Kennedy on the subject of vietnam,at the bottom left hand screen,in bold big numbers,it displays casualtys in vietnam-82
> 
> In case you never learned how to count,82 casualtys is a far cry from the 57,000 americans that occured under Johnson and Nixon.
> 
> It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans.It was Johnson and Nixon.Many ignorant sheople think that Nixon ended the war.what they arent aware of though obviously is he could easily have ended it in 69 if he had wanted to.But he let the war drag on for another four more years extending the war so he is just as much a mass murderer of those 58,000 americans as Johnson is.
> 
> Johnson is even on tape in the white house tapes talking about how Nixon sabotoged his paris peace talks on vietnam to try and end the war that he gave the establishment.
> 
> Dick Nixon,lied to the american people  runnign a campaine that he would end the war quickly,where instead,he extended the war.
> 
> so AGAIN,those 58,000 american lives lost are americans that were murdered by Johnson and Nixon,grow up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary. He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled. It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls. All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks." That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.
> 
> It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon. It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA. An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name. I gave it a quick read. I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism. But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.
> 
> And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop. And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.
> 
> actually there was a major difference.Nixon had deep ties to the CIA and was willing to give them the extended war in vietnam they wanted,where Jfk was a man of world peace and wanted to establish peaceful relations with the soviets.which is what infuriated the establishment.war means big business and huge profits for corporations hense,why we have the war going on in the middle east.
> 
> Unlike the majority of ignorant posters on here who are cluless and ignorant of our american history,YOU seem to know what your talking about and have done your homework.
> 
> This is the only part of any of your posts that havent been right on and accurate,everything else you have posted,has been dead on though.
Click to expand...


Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office.  There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated.  Man of peace, not hardly!


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> *Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.*
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



Kennedy arbitrarily decided to cancel the only air strike that was in the plan and that led to the slaughter of the invading cubans and their supply ship by Cuban owned MIG's.  The orginal plan was to have several UNMARKED WWII B-25's flying out of Venezuala fly in below the radar and bomb the bases where the MIGS were based to deprive them of their Air Force.

Even a fool knows air superiority is the first goal of any invasion.

No military or CIA advisor would have suggested canceling the air strike.  It is true that there was no plan for close air support for the invasion force.  The defeat of the Cubans trying to take back their country was on JFK's head.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history as well as what really goes on in the country currently.
> 
> Like Bendog said,-
> Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.
> 
> Jfk inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower fool.The TRUE history of vietnam that you dont hear from our corrupt public schools  is in Eisenhowers last year in office,he drew up plans of military esculation for vietnam that was nearly implememted in final year.He was strongly anti communist and a war mongrel hawk.
> 
> Jfk was a man of world peace-"which you obviously dont want to see ever happen."
> 
> vietnam was on the backburner of his agenda while President with much more pressing needs like the congo,cuba ,berlin and establishing peaceful relations with the russians.
> 
> He believed in open diologue with other world leaders.That infuriated the establishment.
> 
> He resisted the plans drawn up by Eisenhower in his last year in office for all out war in vietnam that the military urged him to partake in.
> 
> Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.
> 
> Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of vietnam,but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.
> 
> They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.
> 
> Lyndon Johnson got in,and he reversed Kennedys policy just two days later after the assassination esculating the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.
> 
> He implemened the plans Eisenhower drew up for military esculation with covert wars by the CIA that Jfk resisted from the military brass.
> 
> oh and as far as those 57,000 american lives lost? hate to break your heart,but you have those two bastards Johnson and Dick Nixon to thank for that. In an interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 when he interviewing Kennedy on the subject of vietnam,at the bottom left hand screen,in bold big numbers,it displays casualtys in vietnam-82
> 
> In case you never learned how to count,82 casualtys is a far cry from the 57,000 americans that occured under Johnson and Nixon.
> 
> It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans.It was Johnson and Nixon.Many ignorant sheople think that Nixon ended the war.what they arent aware of though obviously is he could easily have ended it in 69 if he had wanted to.But he let the war drag on for another four more years extending the war so he is just as much a mass murderer of those 58,000 americans as Johnson is.
> 
> Johnson is even on tape in the white house tapes talking about how Nixon sabotoged his paris peace talks on vietnam to try and end the war that he gave the establishment.
> 
> Dick Nixon,lied to the american people  runnign a campaine that he would end the war quickly,where instead,he extended the war.
> 
> so AGAIN,those 58,000 american lives lost are americans that were murdered by Johnson and Nixon,grow up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary. He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled. It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls. All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks." That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.
> 
> It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon. It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA. An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name. I gave it a quick read. I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism. But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.
> 
> And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop. And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.
> 
> actually there was a major difference.Nixon had deep ties to the CIA and was willing to give them the extended war in vietnam they wanted,where Jfk was a man of world peace and wanted to establish peaceful relations with the soviets.which is what infuriated the establishment.war means big business and huge profits for corporations hense,why we have the war going on in the middle east.
> 
> Unlike the majority of ignorant posters on here who are cluless and ignorant of our american history,YOU seem to know what your talking about and have done your homework.
> 
> This is the only part of any of your posts that havent been right on and accurate,everything else you have posted,has been dead on though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office.  There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated.  Man of peace, not hardly!
Click to expand...


all you are doing is helping me prove that LBJ was the one that esculated the war. that's the key word there ADVISORS. yes while he increased ADVISORS,which were there to ADVISE him of the situation,he never sent in COMBAT troops.COMBAT troops were never deployed till 1964 when LBJ get in office,you obviously don't remember the chants-hey hey LBJ,HOW MANY KIDS  DID YOU KILL TODAY. Ike was a hypocrite,jfk's aides said that after kennedy met with IKE,kennedy was appalled with IKE because IKE was urging him to deploy combat troops,something he had resisted doing the entire time. you really need to read david Kaisers book AMERICAN TRAGEDY,subtitle-eisenhower,kennedy,johnson and the origins of the Vietnam war.

 because you are obviously only PARTIALLY familiar with it,his book is based on thosuands of declassified documents from all 3 administrations.

the serious researcher knows that Eisenhower originally got the us military involvement going in Vietnam and his policys in his last year called for an all out covert operations that were nearly implemented,policys calling for combat troops,policys kenendy resisted his entire time in office but LBJ implemented.till you read the book,your just rambling.here it is.
the ADVISORS there were there to train the south Vietnamese how to defend themselves.Love how you keep playing dodgeball ignoring that kennedy signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a complete withdrawal of all military personal by 1965.hee hee.
American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson, and the Origins of the Vietnam War by David Kaiser | Barnes & Noble

you want to go tell Kaiser he is wrong,his phone number is listed.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> *Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.*
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kennedy arbitrarily decided to cancel the only air strike that was in the plan and that led to the slaughter of the invading cubans and their supply ship by Cuban owned MIG's.  The orginal plan was to have several UNMARKED WWII B-25's flying out of Venezuala fly in below the radar and bomb the bases where the MIGS were based to deprive them of their Air Force.
> 
> Even a fool knows air superiority is the first goal of any invasion.
> 
> No military or CIA advisor would have suggested canceling the air strike.  It is true that there was no plan for close air support for the invasion force.  The defeat of the Cubans trying to take back their country was on JFK's head.
Click to expand...


as always,you show you only know what the establishment has taught you about this because hate to breeak your heart but it WAS the CIA that DID tell him an air srike was not needed so he cancelled it at the last minute folliwing their advise..AGAIN the CIA and military lied to him about EVERYTHING  from the very beginning them telling him they did not need air support when air support was clearly needed for them to win that the plan they presented him was vastly different than the one they presented to IKE which was designed to succeeed. you sure go into these kennedy discussions only seeing what you WANT to see. selectively picking out CERTAIN posts and certain parts of posts instead of the entire thing.

Here,get educated about the bay of pigs invasion.lol.

How Kennedy Rebelled Against the Pentagon and CIA

https://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/jfk-obama-and-the-unspeakable


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> *Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.*
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kennedy arbitrarily decided to cancel the only air strike that was in the plan and that led to the slaughter of the invading cubans and their supply ship by Cuban owned MIG's.  The orginal plan was to have several UNMARKED WWII B-25's flying out of Venezuala fly in below the radar and bomb the bases where the MIGS were based to deprive them of their Air Force.
> 
> Even a fool knows air superiority is the first goal of any invasion.
> 
> No military or CIA advisor would have suggested canceling the air strike.  It is true that there was no plan for close air support for the invasion force.  The defeat of the Cubans trying to take back their country was on JFK's head.
Click to expand...


edit out,double post.


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history as well as what really goes on in the country currently.
> 
> Like Bendog said,-
> Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.
> 
> Jfk inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower fool.The TRUE history of vietnam that you dont hear from our corrupt public schools  is in Eisenhowers last year in office,he drew up plans of military esculation for vietnam that was nearly implememted in final year.He was strongly anti communist and a war mongrel hawk.
> 
> Jfk was a man of world peace-"which you obviously dont want to see ever happen."
> 
> vietnam was on the backburner of his agenda while President with much more pressing needs like the congo,cuba ,berlin and establishing peaceful relations with the russians.
> 
> He believed in open diologue with other world leaders.That infuriated the establishment.
> 
> He resisted the plans drawn up by Eisenhower in his last year in office for all out war in vietnam that the military urged him to partake in.
> 
> Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.
> 
> Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of vietnam,but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.
> 
> They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.
> 
> Lyndon Johnson got in,and he reversed Kennedys policy just two days later after the assassination esculating the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.
> 
> He implemened the plans Eisenhower drew up for military esculation with covert wars by the CIA that Jfk resisted from the military brass.
> 
> oh and as far as those 57,000 american lives lost? hate to break your heart,but you have those two bastards Johnson and Dick Nixon to thank for that. In an interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 when he interviewing Kennedy on the subject of vietnam,at the bottom left hand screen,in bold big numbers,it displays casualtys in vietnam-82
> 
> In case you never learned how to count,82 casualtys is a far cry from the 57,000 americans that occured under Johnson and Nixon.
> 
> It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans.It was Johnson and Nixon.Many ignorant sheople think that Nixon ended the war.what they arent aware of though obviously is he could easily have ended it in 69 if he had wanted to.But he let the war drag on for another four more years extending the war so he is just as much a mass murderer of those 58,000 americans as Johnson is.
> 
> Johnson is even on tape in the white house tapes talking about how Nixon sabotoged his paris peace talks on vietnam to try and end the war that he gave the establishment.
> 
> Dick Nixon,lied to the american people  runnign a campaine that he would end the war quickly,where instead,he extended the war.
> 
> so AGAIN,those 58,000 american lives lost are americans that were murdered by Johnson and Nixon,grow up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary. He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled. It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls. All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks." That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.
> 
> It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon. It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA. An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name. I gave it a quick read. I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism. But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.
> 
> And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop. And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.
> 
> actually there was a major difference.Nixon had deep ties to the CIA and was willing to give them the extended war in vietnam they wanted,where Jfk was a man of world peace and wanted to establish peaceful relations with the soviets.which is what infuriated the establishment.war means big business and huge profits for corporations hense,why we have the war going on in the middle east.
> 
> Unlike the majority of ignorant posters on here who are cluless and ignorant of our american history,YOU seem to know what your talking about and have done your homework.
> 
> This is the only part of any of your posts that havent been right on and accurate,everything else you have posted,has been dead on though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office.  There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated.  Man of peace, not hardly!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> all you are doing is helping me prove that LBJ was the one that esculated the war. that's the key word there ADVISORS. yes while he increased ADVISORS,which were there to ADVISE him of the situation,he never sent in COMBAT troops.COMBAT troops were never deployed till 1964 when LBJ get in office,you obviously don't remember the chants-hey hey LBJ,HOW MANY KIDS  DID YOU KILL TODAY. Ike was a hypocrite,jfk's aides said that after kennedy met with IKE,kennedy was appalled with IKE because IKE was urging him to deploy combat troops,something he had resisted doing the entire time. you really need to read david Kaisers book AMERICAN TRAGEDY,subtitle-eisenhower,kennedy,johnson and the origins of the Vietnam war.
> 
> because you are obviously only PARTIALLY familiar with it,his book is based on thosuands of declassified documents from all 3 administrations.
> 
> the serious researcher knows that Eisenhower originally got the us military involvement going in Vietnam and his policys in his last year called for an all out covert operations that were nearly implemented,policys calling for combat troops,policys kenendy resisted his entire time in office but LBJ implemented.till you read the book,your just rambling.here it is.
> the ADVISORS there were there to train the south Vietnamese how to defend themselves.Love how you keep playing dodgeball ignoring that kennedy signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a complete withdrawal of all military personal by 1965.hee hee.
> American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson, and the Origins of the Vietnam War by David Kaiser | Barnes & Noble
> 
> you want to go tell Kaiser he is wrong,his phone number is listed.
Click to expand...


I don't want to tell Kaiser anything.  He is a conspiracy nutjob or he is a brilliant con man who has made millions from those who believe there is a conspiracy behind every act.  All he is doing is rewriting history and making things up and a lot of fools believe his nonsense.  Has he written a book on how the Bush Administration engineered the WTC and Pentagon attacks yet?  Rest assured he will or already has.  I am equally sure that if he or someone else does that you will be the first to accept it as fact instead of fiction.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TooTall said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office.  There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated.  Man of peace, not hardly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all you are doing is helping me prove that LBJ was the one that esculated the war. that's the key word there ADVISORS. yes while he increased ADVISORS,which were there to ADVISE him of the situation,he never sent in COMBAT troops.COMBAT troops were never deployed till 1964 when LBJ get in office,you obviously don't remember the chants-hey hey LBJ,HOW MANY KIDS  DID YOU KILL TODAY. Ike was a hypocrite,jfk's aides said that after kennedy met with IKE,kennedy was appalled with IKE because IKE was urging him to deploy combat troops,something he had resisted doing the entire time. you really need to read david Kaisers book AMERICAN TRAGEDY,subtitle-eisenhower,kennedy,johnson and the origins of the Vietnam war.
> 
> because you are obviously only PARTIALLY familiar with it,his book is based on thosuands of declassified documents from all 3 administrations.
> 
> the serious researcher knows that Eisenhower originally got the us military involvement going in Vietnam and his policys in his last year called for an all out covert operations that were nearly implemented,policys calling for combat troops,policys kenendy resisted his entire time in office but LBJ implemented.till you read the book,your just rambling.here it is.
> the ADVISORS there were there to train the south Vietnamese how to defend themselves.Love how you keep playing dodgeball ignoring that kennedy signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a complete withdrawal of all military personal by 1965.hee hee.
> American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson, and the Origins of the Vietnam War by David Kaiser | Barnes & Noble
> 
> you want to go tell Kaiser he is wrong,his phone number is listed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to tell Kaiser anything.  He is a conspiracy nutjob or he is a brilliant con man who has made millions from those who believe there is a conspiracy behind every act.  All he is doing is rewriting history and making things up and a lot of fools believe his nonsense.  Has he written a book on how the Bush Administration engineered the WTC and Pentagon attacks yet?  Rest assured he will or already has.  I am equally sure that if he or someone else does that you will be the first to accept it as fact instead of fiction.
Click to expand...


what a whining loser,you lost your credibility right there calling Kaiser a conspiracy nutjob. your so much in denial and afraid of the truth you go and call Kaiser a man who is a scholar and teacher at a university,a conspiracy nutjob.comedy gold. 

what an idiot.

Your so arrogant and such an idiot who cant face facts,you would be laughed out of debating hall in a minutes notice if you debated the same there you do here,I already posted the document earlier that is there in the national archives in washington dc that kennedy signed at the beginning of oct 63 that called for a complete withdrawal of vietnam by the end of 1965 that Johnson reversed with his document he signed one day later on nov 23rd calling for covert wars on vietnam and the expansion of it.

You cant stand toe to toe in a debate,you whine  in defeat calling Kaiser a nutjob when cornered with facts you cant refute.priceless.your such a chickenshit coward,you run away from the challenge to read the book,so typical of cowardly people who can cowardly hide behind the net,run away from the challenge knowing your cornered.

again all you have done is prove my case for me in this entire thread,you should quit while you can before you humiliate yourself any further.

you post that Kennedy increased ADVISORS from 500 tha were there when Eisenhower was there,to 16,000 which is true but you OBVIOUSLY dont know what the difference is between COMBAT TROOPS AND ADVISORS ARE. I just posted the difference and you ignored it as you always ignore points that prove you wrong. COMBAT TROOPS were not deployed till 1964 loser.

even in this PBS video series i have at home that airs the propaganda our corrupt schools have taught us in their propaganda piece,they go on to say that Kenendy got us into vietnam but whats funny about it is even THEY show off what idiots they are because even THEY in the video series,even admit themselves,that Kennedy never deployed combat troops,that he only sent in advisors to help train the south vietnamese how to protect themselves.

oh and if you were a serious researcher which you have proven in spades you are no,that you only see what you WANT to see the fact your too scared to read that book,you would have seen that interview that walter kronkite gave with Kennedy in the middle of sept 63 when he is discussing with Kronkite the vietnam situation,you can see the graphic in the left bottom column that says us casualtys 82. by the time of his assassination 2 months later,20 more had been killed and the final under Kennedy was 102. 

thats a far cry from the 58,000 those bastards Johnson and Nixon murdered. not even a thousand occured under Kennedy.just slightly over a hundred.

Lets see,between Nixon and Johnson,about 40,000 of the 58,000 that were killed under those two,around 40,000 happened under Lyydon Johnson with a 102 of them being under kennedy.Yep,Johnson did not reverse kennedys policy on vietnam  and kennedy wasnt seeking a peaceful solution to it  even though COMBAT TROOPS were never deployed till 1964 and only a 102 casultys occured under Kennedy to Johnsons 40,000.you should start a comedy club.

any serious objective person posting here can see what a joke of a debater you are,how when your cornered and cant refute facts,you engage in name calling calling Kaiser a conspiracy theorists.


NEXT,you need to stick to  the sports section,at least there you actullay can make a post where you know something about what your talking about.

my ignore list grows larger.


----------



## bayoubill

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



bullshit...

say what you will about Nixon, but he was, first and foremost, a sharp and crafty diplomat who stepped carefully...


----------



## LA RAM FAN

bayoubill said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullshit...
> 
> say what you will about Nixon, but he was, first and foremost, a sharp and crafty diplomat who stepped carefully...
Click to expand...


Like too stupid,you clearly have been brainwashed by our corrupt school system and only go by what our corrupt school textbooks   taught us in american history classes


----------



## starflight

The OP is absolutely correct.

JFK was a very special president.

History uncoversd the truth about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

See what I mean. It's all there in Black & White!


----------



## LA RAM FAN

starflight said:


> The OP is absolutely correct.
> 
> JFK was a very special president.
> 
> History uncoversd the truth about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
> 
> See what I mean. It's all there in Black & White!



Dynamite post.thanks for coming on here and sharing that.


----------



## Papageorgio

starflight said:


> The OP is absolutely correct.
> 
> JFK was a very special president.
> 
> History uncoversd the truth about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
> 
> See what I mean. It's all there in Black & White!



A plug for a book?


----------



## hangover

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.


You moron, it was Eisenhower that got us into Vietnam. JFK assassinated because he was going to end the Vietnam war.
JFK?s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation | The Nation

Nixon was also going to Nuke Vietnam and Laos. Nixon was as stupid as you are.


----------



## pbel

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



I was a young Marine on the USS Boxer during that time off the coast of Cuba, and I can tell you today that Kennedy had saved us from war...His Naval Blockade was brilliant and the Soviets blinked...In my estimation Tricky Dickey, did not have the brains or the honesty to make the right decisions...Take a re-look at the 1960 debates, sweating profusely because he was debating a much smarter man which created stress which was clearly obvious on the tube.

Being in the bulls-eye of the fray, History has proved Kennedy right as Communism has collapsed of its own weight and the cold war no longer threatens humanity.


----------



## editec

The Bay of Pigs fiasco was planned and in place long before JFK took office.

His mistake (one he recongized as the event took place) was TRUSTING THOSE GD SKULL AND BONES YALIES.

Elis run the CIA or did back then.

That mess was their HUBRIS acting up again.

Would Nixxon have given the Cuba terrorists air support?

Probably.

Cuba would have still crushed the invasion, tho.


The "invaders" counted on support from Cubans.

Support that never came because why?

Because the Cuban people still remembers what PIGS the BATISTAN REGIME was.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

hangover said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> You moron, it was Eisenhower that got us into Vietnam. JFK assassinated because he was going to end the Vietnam war.
> JFK?s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation | The Nation
> 
> Nixon was also going to Nuke Vietnam and Laos. Nixon was as stupid as you are.
Click to expand...


I see you see the truth as well that Dont Taz Me Bro along with Too Stupid err Too Tall,iis indeed stupid about the true events of vietnam.

you hit the nail right on the head,Nixon was every bit as stupid as Dont Taz me Bro and Too Stupid err Too Tall are.


those two posters are resident trolls who are complete retards about american history.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

9/11 inside job said:


> hangover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> You moron, it was Eisenhower that got us into Vietnam. JFK assassinated because he was going to end the Vietnam war.
> JFK?s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation | The Nation
> 
> Nixon was also going to Nuke Vietnam and Laos. Nixon was as stupid as you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see you see the truth as well that Dont Taz Me Bro along with Too Stupid err Too Tall,iis indeed stupid about the true events of vietnam.
> 
> you hit the nail right on the head,Nixon was every bit as stupid as Dont Taz me Bro and Too Stupid err Too Tall are.
> 
> 
> those two posters are resident trolls who are complete retards about american history.
Click to expand...


got to tell you what a great post again.


----------



## Connery

Nice OP......Nixon was a from a different mentality and seemed always to be trying to prove himself. Perhaps he would have placed the US in  war. I do not know about a nuclear conflict, though


----------



## theliq

9/11 inside job said:


> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.



9/11 Many thanks for your interesting post,not being American.............I find it somewhat impossible to think but for a SWEATY TV interview Nixon could have become President at that Crucial moment in American and World for that matter History.

It is this type of Gun-Ho attitude of Nixon and some of the Military,you clearly elucidated..... that other people in the world find disturbing moreover have distrust of America and it's thought process and decision making.

Nixon was an earlier exponent..but bigger idiots followed,the two Bushes and their Possies' mainly........Unfounded WARS on a foundation of BULLSHIT.......like the disaster in Vietnam....You bombed and blasted as much as you could but STILL FAILED COMPLETELY.

The world then mock you unfortunately as you are Great People and a Great Nation but you are let down(and YES let yourselves down) by believing the lies and Bullshit told you.

These "Leaders" seem always to be Conservative Right Wing Republicans,who some how think incredibly that GOD is on their side,as they are about to decend a rein of terror on the innocent.But MORE IMPORTANTLY THEY FAIL,FAIL,FAIL.

We in Australia regard ourselves as a Ally of America on the whole....but insist we never fight near them in combat for obvious reasons friendly fire being but one,Australia since WW1 have always had their own CIC.

9/11 Thanks for your insightful observations on a period of American History that needed a steady hand....Whatever people think,President Kennedy was the right man for the job,and how well he did..Just a shame someone/s wanted to blow his head to peices....makes later Presidents look like the BUMBLING FOOLS THEY ARE but that's just my opinion of course.

9/11 Keep up the good work,I notice one poster critisized sic.your spelling and grammar,don't let anyone put you down,it's the content and context of your post that COUNTS.

Anyhow my Grammar and spelling ain't that hot but who wants to FCUKING spell check all the time.....9/11 take care..and you are right "Thank God we got JFK".steve


----------



## theliq

9/11 inside job said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Wrongo, mate*...we (military advisors) were already there before JFK took office.
> 
> The first COMBAT TROOPS entered Vietnam _in 1965._
> 
> Kennedy, obviously, had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> thats what i said earlier.some people just arent aware of the facts that Johnson was the one who got the war started sending in combat troops.
> 
> The advisors like you said,we ALREADY there before Jfk took office.The only thing kennedy ever increased under Eisenhower was the advisors.He never sent in combat troops.Lbj did.
> 
> There were only 82 casultys in sept 1963.thats a far cry from the 58,000 plus that happened under Johnson and Nixons watch.
Click to expand...


What I would like to know whilst we are on the subject of Government and lies....is why Americans have not been given the truth about 9/11,not just Americans but the rest of us too.

If your government think that we couldn't work out that an aircraft going off its flight path would not be picked up within seconds......then they are treating the World like Court Jesters,regrettably they have treated Americans like Village Idiots.

Of course they knew moreover the passengers would have contacted family on their mobile(cell phones),etc,.


After 9/11 many of your freedoms were curtailed or removed..!!!!!!!!!!!!WHY.

9/11 keep the pressure on......I'm enjoying your input on this interesting thread and plebs and hangovers....steve


----------



## TooTall

theliq said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 Many thanks for your interesting post,not being American.............I find it somewhat impossible to think but for a SWEATY TV interview Nixon could have become President at that Crucial moment in American and World for that matter History.
> 
> It is this type of Gun-Ho attitude of Nixon and some of the Military,you clearly elucidated..... that other people in the world find disturbing moreover have distrust of America and it's thought process and decision making.
> 
> Nixon was an earlier exponent..but bigger idiots followed,the two Bushes and their Possies' mainly........Unfounded WARS on a foundation of BULLSHIT.......like the disaster in Vietnam....You bombed and blasted as much as you could but STILL FAILED COMPLETELY.
> 
> The world then mock you unfortunately as you are Great People and a Great Nation but you are let down(and YES let yourselves down) by believing the lies and Bullshit told you.
> 
> These "Leaders" seem always to be Conservative Right Wing Republicans,who some how think incredibly that GOD is on their side,as they are about to decend a rein of terror on the innocent.But MORE IMPORTANTLY THEY FAIL,FAIL,FAIL.
> 
> We in Australia regard ourselves as a Ally of America on the whole....but insist we never fight near them in combat for obvious reasons friendly fire being but one,Australia since WW1 have always had their own CIC.
> 
> 9/11 Thanks for your insightful observations on a period of American History that needed a steady hand....Whatever people think,President Kennedy was the right man for the job,and how well he did..Just a shame someone/s wanted to blow his head to peices....makes later Presidents look like the BUMBLING FOOLS THEY ARE but that's just my opinion of course.
> 
> 9/11 Keep up the good work,I notice one poster critisized sic.your spelling and grammar,don't let anyone put you down,it's the content and context of your post that COUNTS.
> 
> Anyhow my Grammar and spelling ain't that hot but who wants to FCUKING spell check all the time.....9/11 take care..and you are right "Thank God we got JFK".steve
Click to expand...


I don't know where you get your information on Kennedy and the advice he got from the CIA, but only a fool would not realize that NOT having air superiority in any battle means eventual defeat.  The invading force at the bay of pigs were CUBANS and the small contingent of B-25's that were supposed to bomb Castro's aircraft were WWII vintage and I believe they had Venezuela markings in case one of them crashed.  Without air superiority the Cuban AF sunk the main supply ship and slaughtered the invaders on the beach.  I call that criminal and Kennedy, a WWII veteran, should have been held responsible for the death of thousands of Cuban-Americans. I do not believe for one second that the USSR would have attacked the US over the loss of Cuba.

Kennedy increased the number of US military 'advisors' in Vietnam from around 400 to 16,000 during his three years as President.  Lyndon Johnson increased it too as many as 550,000 combat troops in country at one time.  Nixon ended the war, albeit several years later than he should have.  

I would say Kennedy and Johnson were the BUMBLING FOOLS for engaging the US in an unwinnable war in southeast Asia. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khruschev got what he wanted in that we pledged not to invade cuba, but I don't think it was Kabuki Theatre.  Rather, imo the US military was quite pissed they didn't get a chance to strike preemtively and remove Castro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have definetely done your homework I see.
> 
> they would have gotten there wish though had Dick Nixon been elected back then.By the time he became president,thankfully by then,he had matured enough to not do what he tried to get Ike to do in Laos which i said bomb, but Nixon is actually on record in those meetings telling Ike that we need to NUKE the communists in Laos which Eisenhower being wise in wisdom in years,thankfully did not listen to Dick Nixon and did  follow his advise.
> 
> In 68 by the time he had become president,he had become more mature enough at that time not to follow through with his earlier advise to Ike and thankfully did not nuke them.
> 
> However in the early 60's? Whitehouse staffers who worked in the Eisenhower administration said they thought he was the most immature idiot of a politician they ever met so seeing as how he was so immature back then under Eisenhower ,you can count on it that in  the early 60's,unlike Jfk, he would have done what the bass in the military wanted Jfk to do with Cuba and gone ahead and bombed them and gotten us into world war three.
> 
> *I see some  posters  completely dodged that important fact.*
Click to expand...


Some posters know the difference between fact and fiction based on biased opinion.


----------



## TooTall

9/11 inside job said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just did,you ignored it and are obviously in denial that they would have gone to war.they wouldnt just stand by and watch america bomb cuba.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am wasting my time arguing with a fool, but the US was only going to bomb the bases where Cuban MIGs were based.  That is not the same as bombing Cuba.
> 
> And I repeat, there is no way IMO that the USSR would have gone to war with the US over Cuba.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## LA RAM FAN

since the lig posted,someone farted in my thread three times in a row.

for your information TOO STUPID,thats my way of telling you i have you on my ignore list since you blatantly ignore facts from me about kennedy that prove you wrong.you obviously have an obsession with me since all you ever do is read and quote  MY posts ignoring what others have said that have shown what an idiot troll you are who is in denial as well.


you ignore facts that prove you wrong,so i will ignore you as well since all you ever do is post lies.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

hangover said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> You moron, it was Eisenhower that got us into Vietnam. JFK assassinated because he was going to end the Vietnam war.
> JFK?s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation | The Nation
> 
> Nixon was also going to Nuke Vietnam and Laos. Nixon was as stupid as you are.
Click to expand...


Here is positive proof you indeed  have an obsession with me Too Stupid proving you  only read my posts and wont read anybody elses who back me up that prove i am right  because of the fact you only see what you WANT to see. 

Hangover proved what a dumbfuck idiot dont taz me is in this post,a dumbfuck troll that you ignorantly thanked for his stupidity in his post.

you TOO STUPID and dont taz me troll,have not done what many independent researchers HAVE done,go down to the archives in washington DC and looked at the documents and tapes that were suppressed for so many decades just like that article in that link says,when the JFK act was signed,the ARRB gathered documents from the Eisenhower,Johnson,and Kennedy administrations and found documentation and tapes from his talks  his with his aides that he indeed was going to pull out of vietnam completely by the end of 1965.

as always,you keep coming back here to make a fool out of yourself and humilate yourself at the same time coming back for these constant ass beatings you get from me,with the help from others like hangover of course.


you cant stand to hear these facts that prove you wrong so your so scared of the truth that liek a child you put  your hands over your ears and close your eyes just like dont taz me troll did.

you're so much in denial you keep coming back here rambling trying to convice yourself your right just liek a childi would do but to no avail failing miserably flat on your face.all the time talking to yourself actually beliving i read your lies and ramblings anymore showing you indeed need to chage your user name to TOO STUPID since you are the ONLY one here still reading your lies and bullshit you keep posting in your defeat.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Other presidents -












[/IMG]






We've got a lot to be thankful for.


----------



## theliq

TooTall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 Many thanks for your interesting post,not being American.............I find it somewhat impossible to think but for a SWEATY TV interview Nixon could have become President at that Crucial moment in American and World for that matter History.
> 
> It is this type of Gun-Ho attitude of Nixon and some of the Military,you clearly elucidated..... that other people in the world find disturbing moreover have distrust of America and it's thought process and decision making.
> 
> Nixon was an earlier exponent..but bigger idiots followed,the two Bushes and their Possies' mainly........Unfounded WARS on a foundation of BULLSHIT.......like the disaster in Vietnam....You bombed and blasted as much as you could but STILL FAILED COMPLETELY.
> 
> The world then mock you unfortunately as you are Great People and a Great Nation but you are let down(and YES let yourselves down) by believing the lies and Bullshit told you.
> 
> These "Leaders" seem always to be Conservative Right Wing Republicans,who some how think incredibly that GOD is on their side,as they are about to decend a rein of terror on the innocent.But MORE IMPORTANTLY THEY FAIL,FAIL,FAIL.
> 
> We in Australia regard ourselves as a Ally of America on the whole....but insist we never fight near them in combat for obvious reasons friendly fire being but one,Australia since WW1 have always had their own CIC.
> 
> 9/11 Thanks for your insightful observations on a period of American History that needed a steady hand....Whatever people think,President Kennedy was the right man for the job,and how well he did..Just a shame someone/s wanted to blow his head to peices....makes later Presidents look like the BUMBLING FOOLS THEY ARE but that's just my opinion of course.
> 
> 9/11 Keep up the good work,I notice one poster critisized sic.your spelling and grammar,don't let anyone put you down,it's the content and context of your post that COUNTS.
> 
> Anyhow my Grammar and spelling ain't that hot but who wants to FCUKING spell check all the time.....9/11 take care..and you are right "Thank God we got JFK".steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know where you get your information on Kennedy and the advice he got from the CIA, but only a fool would not realize that NOT having air superiority in any battle means eventual defeat.  The invading force at the bay of pigs were CUBANS and the small contingent of B-25's that were supposed to bomb Castro's aircraft were WWII vintage and I believe they had Venezuela markings in case one of them crashed.  Without air superiority the Cuban AF sunk the main supply ship and slaughtered the invaders on the beach.  I call that criminal and Kennedy, a WWII veteran, should have been held responsible for the death of thousands of Cuban-Americans. I do not believe for one second that the USSR would have attacked the US over the loss of Cuba.
> 
> Kennedy increased the number of US military 'advisors' in Vietnam from around 400 to 16,000 during his three years as President.  Lyndon Johnson increased it too as many as 550,000 combat troops in country at one time.  Nixon ended the war, albeit several years later than he should have.
> 
> I would say Kennedy and Johnson were the BUMBLING FOOLS for engaging the US in an unwinnable war in southeast Asia. But that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...


Sorry I disagree completely..but that is my opinion only.So Bush wasn't a BUMBLING FOOL then,sorry I disagree completely and that's the opinion agreed by most people....but there you go.steve


----------



## Bgallo28

Interesting read.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Luddly Neddite said:


> Other presidents -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've got a lot to be thankful for.



great stuff there.stands up and gives standing ovation.



I hope you posted that over on the Reagan thread as well? thats where it really needs to be posted. The only thing that needs to be corrected about the post is it should say REPUBLICRATS.Its a ONE PARTY SYSTEM designed to look like two parties so the sheople think they have a choice in who gets elected. Thats why when Obama got elected,he is seen in his inagural address speech giving Bush a hug. they are suppose to be two different parties with different ideads yet Obama has contiuned all of Bushs policys?

He shouldnt have gone anywhere near Bush and if he had any humanity,he would ahev given him the middle finger and prosecuted him for his crimes.Instead he is continuing Bushs crimes he started.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

theliq said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.
> 
> I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.
> 
> Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.
> 
> They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.
> 
> Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.
> 
> During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.
> 
> After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.
> 
> He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.
> 
> He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.
> 
> Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.
> 
> We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.
> 
> You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 Many thanks for your interesting post,not being American.............I find it somewhat impossible to think but for a SWEATY TV interview Nixon could have become President at that Crucial moment in American and World for that matter History.
> 
> It is this type of Gun-Ho attitude of Nixon and some of the Military,you clearly elucidated..... that other people in the world find disturbing moreover have distrust of America and it's thought process and decision making.
> 
> Nixon was an earlier exponent..but bigger idiots followed,the two Bushes and their Possies' mainly........Unfounded WARS on a foundation of BULLSHIT.......like the disaster in Vietnam....You bombed and blasted as much as you could but STILL FAILED COMPLETELY.
> 
> The world then mock you unfortunately as you are Great People and a Great Nation but you are let down(and YES let yourselves down) by believing the lies and Bullshit told you.
> 
> These "Leaders" seem always to be Conservative Right Wing Republicans,who some how think incredibly that GOD is on their side,as they are about to decend a rein of terror on the innocent.But MORE IMPORTANTLY THEY FAIL,FAIL,FAIL.
> 
> We in Australia regard ourselves as a Ally of America on the whole....but insist we never fight near them in combat for obvious reasons friendly fire being but one,Australia since WW1 have always had their own CIC.
> 
> 9/11 Thanks for your insightful observations on a period of American History that needed a steady hand....Whatever people think,President Kennedy was the right man for the job,and how well he did..Just a shame someone/s wanted to blow his head to peices....makes later Presidents look like the BUMBLING FOOLS THEY ARE but that's just my opinion of course.
> 
> 9/11 Keep up the good work,I notice one poster critisized sic.your spelling and grammar,don't let anyone put you down,it's the content and context of your post that COUNTS.
> 
> Anyhow my Grammar and spelling ain't that hot but who wants to FCUKING spell check all the time.....9/11 take care..and you are right "Thank God we got JFK".steve
Click to expand...


Yeah thats what trolls do around here when they cant refute facts,they like to put you down about grammar and childish attacks like that since the truth scares them and they dont want to hear it. thanks for the kind words.

Handover gave that fool and others who attacked me for this post an ass beating. Its sad that our corrupt school systeme here in america never teach the truth that it wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans,it was Johnson and Nixon.

Johnson reversed Kennedys policy on vietnam for a complete witdrawal by 1965 and esculated the war that Eisenhower got us into and then Nixon lied to the american public that he would end the war immediately after taking office which he could have done in 1969 but instead he let the war drag on for four more years murdering many more americans.He campianed to end the war while secretly he sabotoged Johnsons paris peace talks to end the war since he was there to serve the bankers.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

theliq said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Wrongo, mate*...we (military advisors) were already there before JFK took office.
> 
> The first COMBAT TROOPS entered Vietnam _in 1965._
> 
> Kennedy, obviously, had nothing to do with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats what i said earlier.some people just arent aware of the facts that Johnson was the one who got the war started sending in combat troops.
> 
> The advisors like you said,we ALREADY there before Jfk took office.The only thing kennedy ever increased under Eisenhower was the advisors.He never sent in combat troops.Lbj did.
> 
> There were only 82 casultys in sept 1963.thats a far cry from the 58,000 plus that happened under Johnson and Nixons watch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I would like to know whilst we are on the subject of Government and lies....is why Americans have not been given the truth about 9/11,not just Americans but the rest of us too.
> 
> If your government think that we couldn't work out that an aircraft going off its flight path would not be picked up within seconds......then they are treating the World like Court Jesters,regrettably they have treated Americans like Village Idiots.
> 
> Of course they knew moreover the passengers would have contacted family on their mobile(cell phones),etc,.
> 
> 
> After 9/11 many of your freedoms were curtailed or removed..!!!!!!!!!!!!WHY.
> 
> 9/11 keep the pressure on......I'm enjoying your input on this interesting thread and plebs and hangovers....steve
Click to expand...


thanks and yeah,those are world known facts around the world about 9/11.Matter of fact other countries from around the world are trying to prosecute Bush and Obama for his role in the coverup letting Bush roam free instead of prosecuting him for it like he should.Bush and cheney already cant fly to like 3 countries around thwe world,forget which they are,because if he does,the authoritys well arrest him them if they try and enter.I wish the citizens here in america on our police force would get the guts to arrest them.Guess they are afraid to try and arrest a president around here,even a former one.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

9/11 inside job said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Other presidents -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've got a lot to be thankful for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> great stuff there.stands up and gives standing ovation.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you posted that over on the Reagan thread as well? thats where it really needs to be posted. The only thing that needs to be corrected about the post is it should say REPUBLICRATS.Its a ONE PARTY SYSTEM designed to look like two parties so the sheople think they have a choice in who gets elected. Thats why when Obama got elected,he is seen in his inagural address speech giving Bush a hug. they are suppose to be two different parties with different ideads yet Obama has contiuned all of Bushs policys?
> 
> He shouldnt have gone anywhere near Bush and if he had any humanity,he would ahev given him the middle finger and prosecuted him for his crimes.Instead he is continuing Bushs crimes he started.
Click to expand...


world peace is something that Kennedy unlike Obomination and Bushwacker,actually had an interest in which is why he was eliminated.

Thanks for showing those facts of reagan gives me a chance to post some more things on reagan here,dont want to post them on the reagan thread cause the trolls will try and derail those facts and gchange the subject talking about obama.

THE RONALD REAGAN MYTH . . . The Progressive Review

http://readersupportednews.org/off-...-102/4859-ronald-reagan-enabler-of-atrocities

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan


----------



## TooTall

theliq said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 Many thanks for your interesting post,not being American.............I find it somewhat impossible to think but for a SWEATY TV interview Nixon could have become President at that Crucial moment in American and World for that matter History.
> 
> It is this type of Gun-Ho attitude of Nixon and some of the Military,you clearly elucidated..... that other people in the world find disturbing moreover have distrust of America and it's thought process and decision making.
> 
> Nixon was an earlier exponent..but bigger idiots followed,the two Bushes and their Possies' mainly........Unfounded WARS on a foundation of BULLSHIT.......like the disaster in Vietnam....You bombed and blasted as much as you could but STILL FAILED COMPLETELY.
> 
> The world then mock you unfortunately as you are Great People and a Great Nation but you are let down(and YES let yourselves down) by believing the lies and Bullshit told you.
> 
> These "Leaders" seem always to be Conservative Right Wing Republicans,who some how think incredibly that GOD is on their side,as they are about to decend a rein of terror on the innocent.But MORE IMPORTANTLY THEY FAIL,FAIL,FAIL.
> 
> We in Australia regard ourselves as a Ally of America on the whole....but insist we never fight near them in combat for obvious reasons friendly fire being but one,Australia since WW1 have always had their own CIC.
> 
> 9/11 Thanks for your insightful observations on a period of American History that needed a steady hand....Whatever people think,President Kennedy was the right man for the job,and how well he did..Just a shame someone/s wanted to blow his head to peices....makes later Presidents look like the BUMBLING FOOLS THEY ARE but that's just my opinion of course.
> 
> 9/11 Keep up the good work,I notice one poster critisized sic.your spelling and grammar,don't let anyone put you down,it's the content and context of your post that COUNTS.
> 
> Anyhow my Grammar and spelling ain't that hot but who wants to FCUKING spell check all the time.....9/11 take care..and you are right "Thank God we got JFK".steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you get your information on Kennedy and the advice he got from the CIA, but only a fool would not realize that NOT having air superiority in any battle means eventual defeat.  The invading force at the bay of pigs were CUBANS and the small contingent of B-25's that were supposed to bomb Castro's aircraft were WWII vintage and I believe they had Venezuela markings in case one of them crashed.  Without air superiority the Cuban AF sunk the main supply ship and slaughtered the invaders on the beach.  I call that criminal and Kennedy, a WWII veteran, should have been held responsible for the death of thousands of Cuban-Americans. I do not believe for one second that the USSR would have attacked the US over the loss of Cuba.
> 
> Kennedy increased the number of US military 'advisors' in Vietnam from around 400 to 16,000 during his three years as President.  Lyndon Johnson increased it too as many as 550,000 combat troops in country at one time.  Nixon ended the war, albeit several years later than he should have.
> 
> I would say Kennedy and Johnson were the BUMBLING FOOLS for engaging the US in an unwinnable war in southeast Asia. But that's just my opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry I disagree completely..but that is my opinion only.So Bush wasn't a BUMBLING FOOL then,sorry I disagree completely and that's the opinion agreed by most people....but there you go.steve
Click to expand...


Most people can't possible think that the retaliation on Afghanistan for their part in 911 and the invasion of Iraq for many valid reasons make Bush a fool.  Increasing the number of so-called military advisers by Kennedy from 400 to 16,000 is, if nothing else, a gross provocation.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and we will agree to disagree.  Perhaps you should put me on ignore like the other pissant did.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.


----------



## theliq

TooTall said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you get your information on Kennedy and the advice he got from the CIA, but only a fool would not realize that NOT having air superiority in any battle means eventual defeat.  The invading force at the bay of pigs were CUBANS and the small contingent of B-25's that were supposed to bomb Castro's aircraft were WWII vintage and I believe they had Venezuela markings in case one of them crashed.  Without air superiority the Cuban AF sunk the main supply ship and slaughtered the invaders on the beach.  I call that criminal and Kennedy, a WWII veteran, should have been held responsible for the death of thousands of Cuban-Americans. I do not believe for one second that the USSR would have attacked the US over the loss of Cuba.
> 
> Kennedy increased the number of US military 'advisors' in Vietnam from around 400 to 16,000 during his three years as President.  Lyndon Johnson increased it too as many as 550,000 combat troops in country at one time.  Nixon ended the war, albeit several years later than he should have.
> 
> I would say Kennedy and Johnson were the BUMBLING FOOLS for engaging the US in an unwinnable war in southeast Asia. But that's just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I disagree completely..but that is my opinion only.So Bush wasn't a BUMBLING FOOL then,sorry I disagree completely and that's the opinion agreed by most people....but there you go.steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most people can't possible think that the retaliation on Afghanistan for their part in 911 and the invasion of Iraq for many valid reasons make Bush a fool.  Increasing the number of so-called military advisers by Kennedy from 400 to 16,000 is, if nothing else, a gross provocation.
> 
> Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and we will agree to disagree.  Perhaps you should put me on ignore like the other pissant did.
Click to expand...


Well I wouldn't put it like that personally but you are real suckers for US Government Bullshit,starting with a Bullshit premise to start with,you still continue to munch the stuff,have you not an open mind or do you really believe what you spew...SAD very SAD indeed.

steve


----------



## JoeB131

jwoodie said:


> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).



Krushchev was removed from power in 1964.  hardly a win.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

JoeB131 said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance.  The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy.  NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Krushchev was removed from power in 1964.  hardly a win.
Click to expand...


well said.Not much of a victory for him since the establishment removed him from power two years later. Two men who were seeking to reform their governments both got removed from the powers that be.Krushchev at least got to leave office by being forced out by them instead of buying the farm with a bullet.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

theliq said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I disagree completely..but that is my opinion only.So Bush wasn't a BUMBLING FOOL then,sorry I disagree completely and that's the opinion agreed by most people....but there you go.steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people can't possible think that the retaliation on Afghanistan for their part in 911 and the invasion of Iraq for many valid reasons make Bush a fool.  Increasing the number of so-called military advisers by Kennedy from 400 to 16,000 is, if nothing else, a gross provocation.
> 
> Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and we will agree to disagree.  Perhaps you should put me on ignore like the other pissant did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I wouldn't put it like that personally but you are real suckers for US Government Bullshit,starting with a Bullshit premise to start with,you still continue to munch the stuff,have you not an open mind or do you really believe what you spew...SAD very SAD indeed.
> 
> steve
Click to expand...


I have tried to explain to Too Stupid here many times before that thats all he did was increase ADVISORS whos only duties there were to train the south vietnamese to defend themselves and the only time they ever engaged in combat was if they were fired upon to defend themselves. It just goes through one ear and out the other though,some sheople just cant accept facts.

the facts prove that they were only sent in there as advisors and that COMBAT troops were never deployed until 1964 under Johnson. He blatantly ignores this fact that proves all that to be true which i have posted here HUNDREDS of times and he acts like i never posted it

 which is that when kennedy was being interviewed by walter kronkite in sept 1963 two months before his assassination and in that footage,you can see at the bottom left hand corner US CASUALTYS,82.  

By the time of his assassination it was only up to 20 or so more being 102 or so.Lets see,Jfk was in office for a little under 3 years,in that timeframe,we had just a little over a hundred casualtys,when the war ended,we had 58,000 casultys with 38,000 or so happening under johnson,Nixon the other 20,000.  Sounds like the president in that timespan from kennedy to Nixon,that the first president that you can blame for a gross provocation  is Johnson. I have said this HUNDREDS of times to him before to him but it just goes through one ear and out the other.

I guess Too Stupid has a counting problem.Last time i checked a 102 casultys is a far cry from the 58,000 that occured under Johnson and Dick Nixon.

Too stupid needs to bone up on his arithmetic as well as take some reading comprehension classes.


----------



## M14 Shooter

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.


And...  Nixon got us out.


----------



## elektra

John F. Kennedy sent thousands to Vietnam.

Nixon opposed Kennedy in the 1960 election. 

Both facts, speculation otherwise seems like a foolish waste of one's time unless the goal of the discussion is simply to divide the people of the USA.

Those who divide us will conquer us.


----------



## JoeB131

M14 Shooter said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> And...  Nixon got us out.
Click to expand...


Yes, after he escalated the war, illegally invaded Cambodia and overthrew it's legitimate government, bombed the snot out of the NOrth for no good reason, he finally agreed to throw our allies under the bus, knowing they wouldn't last a year after we left.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

M14 Shooter said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> And...  Nixon got us out.
Click to expand...


yeah but the fucking evil bastard COULD have gotten us out in 1969 had he wanted to yet he sabotoged LBJ's paris peace talks to try and end the war and delayed it for another four more tears therefore LBJ and Nixon are mass murderers of 58,000 americans.Do try and keep up.


JFK sent us into Vietnam. 57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
Wrongo, mate...we (military advisors) were already there before JFK took office.

The first COMBAT TROOPS entered Vietnam in 1965.

Kennedy, obviously, had nothing to do with that. 
STANDS UP AND GIVES STANDING OVATION.




Yes, after he escalated the war, illegally invaded Cambodia and overthrew it's legitimate government, bombed the snot out of the NOrth for no good reason, he finally agreed to throw our allies under the bus, knowing they wouldn't last a year after we left. 
well done.

yeah exactly.well said, and like i said,AFTER he delayed it sabotoging LBJ'S paris peace talks delieberatly letting the war go on for another four more bloody years joining his pal LBJ in murdering many more american lives.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

elektra said:


> John F. Kennedy sent thousands to Vietnam.
> 
> Nixon opposed Kennedy in the 1960 election.
> 
> Both facts, speculation otherwise seems like a foolish waste of one's time unless the goal of the discussion is simply to divide the people of the USA.
> 
> Those who divide us will conquer us.



oh brother,here we go again.why is it people come here to these forums and only read the thread title instead of actually reading the opening post?

You might actually read the opening post on this thread to see WHY americans should be grateful JFK got elected instead of Dick Nixon. the people that have,understand WHY americans should be grateful he got the nomination.

Its NOT speculation that Kennedy was going to completely withdraw us from vietnam in 1965.used to be till the mid 90's,not anymore though.Read the very first post at the top of page 8 and the link he posted.  The facts prove he was going to completely pull us out of vietnam by 1965 and that johnson two days after his assassination,reversed his policy, esculating the war.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/histo...k-got-elected-in-1960-instead-of-nixon-8.html



and its NOT speculation that there were only 82 US casualtys  in september 1963 two months before his assassination.as I just said,walter kronkite interviewed JFK that month and at the bottom left hand corner in the screen,those figures appear. about 20 more occured after that.so there were only 102 us casualtys or so at the time of assassination.fact

fact as well is that 58,00 casultys accoured under LBJ AND NIXON.LBJ murdered around 38,000 of those americans,Nixon the other 20,000. clear cut proof that LBJ and Nixons policys were nothing like JFK's policy on vietnam for withdrawal.

face it,LBJ and Nixon murdered 58,000 americans by sending in COMBAT troops.something the establishment tried to get JFK to do but he resisted till the very end only sending in ADVISORS whose role was just ot train the south vietnamese and defend themselves..those advisors never engaged in combat,they lost their lives being fired upon by snipers and stepping on bombs.thats why they assassinated JFK cause he wanted no more casultys..they knew LBJ would give them the war they wanted that JFK did not.


----------



## M14 Shooter

9/11 inside job said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> JFK sent us into Vietnam.  57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> And...  Nixon got us out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah but the fucking evil bastard COULD have gotten us out in 1969...
Click to expand...

US troop strength peaked in April 1969; drawdown began in September 1969.
"yeah, but..." only means I'm right and you'd rather not discuss it.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

M14 Shooter said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> And...  Nixon got us out.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but the fucking evil bastard COULD have gotten us out in 1969...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> US troop strength peaked in April 1969; drawdown began in September 1969.
> "yeah, but..." only means I'm right and you'd rather not discuss it.
Click to expand...


Dont know where you get these false conclusions.I enjoy showing how many american sheople such as yourself are ignorant about the events of vietnam. 

YOU only want to discuss what you have been taught by our corrupt school system,you dont want to look at and address the facts myself and others have mentioned how dick niixon betrayed americans.

.Nice game of dodgeball you played ignoring the fact he sabotoged Johnsons paris peace talks to end the war and extended it another four more years. 

 You ignored that he could have called for a complete withdrawal by the end of 69 sparing thousands of more lives,but the bastard let it drag on for another four more years murdering thousands of more american  lives needlessly.

as well as ignoring all these facts below others have mentioned.


JFK sent us into Vietnam. 57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.


You moron, it was Eisenhower that got us into Vietnam. JFK assassinated because he was going to end the Vietnam war.
JFK?s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation | The Nation

Nixon was also going to Nuke Vietnam and Laos. Nixon was as stupid as you are.

that poster DONT TAZ ME just like hangover said,is indeed a moron.your going to continue being progammed if you listen to THAT idiot. That idiot is such a dumbfuck he blames the 58,000 american lives lost on JFK when like Hangover said,he inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower who got us into it. 

this idiot that you listenend to is not aware of the FACTS that in JFK's near three years in office,there were only a hundred or so casultys as i just proved earlier and that he was going to pull out of vietnam as hangover proved earlier as well,that Johnson reversed his policy for withdrawal and esculated the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.yet somehow JFK is responsible for those 58,000 american lives that Johnson  and Nixon both murdered.yeah right. 

that moron troll dont taz me is ready for the nuthouse as is anybody who listens to that dipshit.


----------



## M14 Shooter

9/11 inside job said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but the fucking evil bastard COULD have gotten us out in 1969...
> 
> 
> 
> US troop strength peaked in April 1969; drawdown began in September 1969.
> "yeah, but..." only means I'm right and you'd rather not discuss it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dont know where you get these false conclusions...
Click to expand...

I know you do not like the fact that Nixon got us out of Vietnam, but it is, indeed, a fact.
The problem here rests with you, and you alone.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

M14 Shooter said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> US troop strength peaked in April 1969; drawdown began in September 1969.
> "yeah, but..." only means I'm right and you'd rather not discuss it.
> 
> 
> 
> Dont know where you get these false conclusions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know you do not like the fact that Nixon got us out of Vietnam, but it is, indeed, a fact.
> The problem here rests with you, and you alone.
Click to expand...


dodgeball game from you as always. I know you hate admitting you love a mass murderer.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

oh and thanks for proving you have reading comprehension problems.either that or you only see what you WANT to see.


----------



## M14 Shooter

9/11 inside job said:


> oh and thanks for proving you have reading comprehension problems.either that or you only see what you WANT to see.


The problem here rests with you, and you alone, as my staement is true - no matter what.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

M14 Shooter said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh and thanks for proving you have reading comprehension problems.either that or you only see what you WANT to see.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem here rests with you, and you alone, as my staement is true - no matter what.
Click to expand...


no the problem rests with You,that just like johnson,he was a mass murderer who murdered 58,000 americans not ending the war in 69 when he could have. again as always,you have reading comprehension problems which you have proven in spades since your very first post. on this thread. johnson murdered 38,000 of them.Nixon 28,000,a FACT you cant deal with or comprehend. 

I just end up repeating myself over and over talking to a brick wall that keeps playing dodgeball so you want to keep coming back for more ass beatings,you'll have to get it from someone else.im done talking to the latest brickwall.

oh and hate to break your heart and depress you,but DICK Nixon did not end the war,the american people did as this link so well says.any serious reseacher knows this. you obviously have reading comprehension problems so posting this below will be a complete waste of time but here goes anyways.have fun trolling,its been fun handing your ass to you on a platter.
Had Nixon has his way,just like the link says,he would have let it go on forever if not for the american people.
The Vietnam War


The Vietnam War of 1964-1975: Although history puts America's war in Vietnam in the "lose" column, the United States actually won every major conflict including the infamous Tet offensive. The demise of the United State's presence and power in Vietnam was not due to losses on the battlefields but to the loss of support of the American public. The North Vietnamese were unified in their determination to win and America was not. For America it was a limited war and for the Vietnamese it was all out war in defending their homeland against American aggression. The Americans underestimated the resolve of the Vietnamese who had for hundreds of years already had been fighting off the Chinese, then the French and now the Americans. They were not about to give up. President Johnson could not put everything into the war because of the fear that the Chinese, which had also got involved with the Korean war would get involved, or even Russia. So it was a half way effort doomed to failure. 
In Vietnam it is called the American war. It was an immoral war that the intellectuals and newly enlightened young people of America just could not accept. The duped older generation that remembered the glory days of U.S action in WWII just could not accept the truth of what was really happening there. Calling the war a "police action" was just another lie to hide the fact that it was an illegal war as well as immoral. President Johnson escalated the conflict to a murderous campaign of American aggression with intense bombing of neighboring countries. 

Most people think that Richard Nixon got us out of Vietnam. The fact is that it was Nixon that got us into the war while Vice President under Dwight Eisenhower and it was the American people that got us out. If it was up to Nixon, he would have carried out his campaign of terror in Vietnam until he stepped out of office.
they nailed it.

here it is again for you DUMMIES STYLE,since you obviously have reading comprehension problems. AS ALWAYS,YOU GET TAKEN TO SCHOOL AND GET YOUR ASS HANDED TO YOU ON A PLATTER.

MOST PEOPLE THINK THAT RICHARD NIXON GOT US OUT OF VIETNAM.THE FACT IS THAT IT WAS NIXON THAT GOT US INTO THE WAR WHILE VICE PRESIDENT UNDER EISENHOWER AND IT WAS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT GOT US OUT.IF IT WAS UP TO NIXON,HE WOULD HAVE CARRIED OUT HIS CAMPAINE OF TERROR IN VIETNAM UNTILE HE STEPPED OUT OF OFFICE.


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## M14 Shooter

9/11 inside job said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh and thanks for proving you have reading comprehension problems.either that or you only see what you WANT to see.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem here rests with you, and you alone, as my staement is true - no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no the problem rests with You....
Click to expand...

I'm right, so that's not possible


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## LA RAM FAN

back for more ass beatings as always I see.thanks for proving that you are a huge fan of mass murderers who murder women and children.

the fact that you replied so quickly tells me I am indeed correct,that you only see what you WANT to see and read only PARTS of posts.

you are a brainwashed government stooge sent here to troll obviously because you are a fan of someone who sabotogoes peace talks and murders thousands of innocent women and children.have fun talking to yourself troll.you have proven you are just that.no woner you reply to popsts by idiot trolls like dont taz me and ignore what a mopron he is.You are one as well.

you cant change FACTS that Nixon and Johnson were mass murderers and the AMERICAN people ended the war troll.grow up and deal with it. here below is the man you worship as your idol.

Nixon and the My Lai massacre coverup | New York Post

all you are capable of doing is coming back with childish pathetic one liners when you are cornered,you clearly dont know how to debate.

oh and here is more stuff on your hero and mass murderer dick nixon.a man who bombed NEAUTRAL cambodia murdering many innocent women and children,its great to know we have people like you in america who are fans of mass murderers of women and children.No wonder america is a facist state now.we got people with your mindset running  the country who love to watch people murder other people.

U.S. B-52 bombers are diverted from their targets in South Vietnam to attack suspected communist base camps and supply areas in Cambodia for the first time in the war. President Nixon approved the mission--formally designated Operation Breakfast--at a meeting of the National Security Council on March 15. This mission and subsequent B-52 strikes inside Cambodia became known as the "Menu" bombings. A total of 3,630 flights over Cambodia dropped 110,000 tons of bombs during a 14-month period through April 1970. This bombing of Cambodia and all follow up "Menu" operations were kept secret from the American public and the U.S. Congress because Cambodia was ostensibly neutral. To keep the secret, an intricate reporting system was established at the Pentagon to prevent disclosure of the bombing. Although the New York Times broke the story of the secret bombing campaign in May 1969, there was little adverse public reaction

since you have reading comprehension problems,it says DICK NIXON bombed a NEAUTRAL cambodia that had dont NOTHING to americans.

and never mind the mai lai massacre he covered up as well where we murdered women and childen of villages.


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## M14 Shooter

9/11 inside job said:


> back for more ass beatings as always I see...  blah blah blah


Fact:  Nixon got us out of Vietnam
Fact:  This is true no matter how much you hate it.


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## elektra

JFK, the great Kennedy, the President that sent troops to Vietnam, escalating a conflict into war. 

Kennedy obviously thought Soviet Socialism was a threat to be fought with the Military.


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## LA RAM FAN

yesterday at 6:39 pm.someone farted in here.


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## LA RAM FAN

elektra said:


> JFK, the great Kennedy, the President that sent troops to Vietnam, escalating a conflict into war.
> 
> Kennedy obviously thought Soviet Socialism was a threat to be fought with the Military.



good god,here we go again.you really should read through ALL the posts on here BEFORE coming on here posting what you THINK you know. because obviously you missed this post earlier.

JFK sent us into Vietnam. 57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.

You moron, it was Eisenhower that got us into Vietnam. JFK assassinated because he was going to end the Vietnam war.
JFK?s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation | The Nation

JFK?s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation | The Nation

Nixon was also going to Nuke Vietnam and Laos. Nixon was as stupid as you are.

you ALSO missed my facts earlier that JFK only sent in ADVISORS.the whole entire time while JFK was president,only 102 us casultys happened under his watch.COMBAT troops were never introduced until 1964 under Johnson. 58,000 casultys happened under Johnson and Nixons watch,yet your trying to tell us all here that JFK esculated the war instead of Johnson.yeah riiiggghhhhttttt. and Im the kind of england.


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## LA RAM FAN

M14 Shooter said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> back for more ass beatings as always I see...  blah blah blah
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  Nixon got us out of Vietnam
> Fact:  This is true no matter how much you hate it.
Click to expand...


FACT -YOU are a troll seeking attention who ignores facts that he was a mass murderer of thousands of women and children.
FACT-he could have completely withdrawn all military personal in 1969 sparing many american lives,he did not,he murdered thousands more americans delaying the war another four more years.
FACT-he sabotoged LBJ's paris peace talks to end the war and campained  promising a quick end to the war only to drag it on another four more years murdering thousands more of americans.

FACT-if not for the american people protesting the war,Nixon would have continued it.

FACT this is true no matter how much you hate it.

have fun talking to yourself troll.you are about to meet my ignore button.


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## M14 Shooter

9/11 inside job said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> back for more ass beatings as always I see...  blah blah blah
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  Nixon got us out of Vietnam
> Fact:  This is true no matter how much you hate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FACT ...
Click to expand...

... nothing you posted negates the validity of my statements.


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## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.


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## LA RAM FAN

Bgallo28 said:


> Interesting read.



indeed.too bad there are a lot of trolls who only read the title and wont read the OP.


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## namvet

9/11 inside job said:


> someone farted in here.



and you just shit in your pants


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## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.


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## namvet

there ya go - his famous last words LMFAO !!!


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## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here. the kid that likes to fantasize about what it would have been like in vietnam just did.


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## namvet

9/11 inside job said:


> someone farted in here. the kid that likes to fantasize about what it would have been like in vietnam just did.



KID?? im 67 years old and can still slam your fuckin' head thru a wall pussy

that mke ya fart??? should make ya shit your pants cheese dick

tell us cheese dick. what's a DD214 ???


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## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.


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## LA RAM FAN

again it was the kid who likes to fantasize about what it would have been like in vietnam.


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## namvet

9/11 inside job said:


> again it was the kid who likes to fantasize about what it would have been like in vietnam.



again. what's a DD214 kid girl ??? I just farted in your face. and your smelling it cause your a pretty smart feller HAHAHAHAHAHA..............


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## namvet

meet 911 blow job






ain't she cute ???


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## LA RAM FAN

now thats TWO farts in a row from you wanna be namvet.


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## namvet

9/11 inside job said:


> now thats TWO farts in a row from you wanna be namvet.


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## theliq

M14 Shooter said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> back for more ass beatings as always I see...  blah blah blah
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  Nixon got us out of Vietnam
> Fact:  This is true no matter how much you hate it.
Click to expand...


Got you out of a complete failure,well that NO BIG SHAKES .......IS IT.

Nixon really was a BAD ASS....as you know.....why do you defend the indefensible anyway.

9/11 is right.


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## theliq

namvet said:


> meet 911 blow job
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ain't she cute ???



This is a child..... this is neither funny or amusing Idiot.......


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## theliq

M14 Shooter said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  Nixon got us out of Vietnam
> Fact:  This is true no matter how much you hate it.
> 
> 
> 
> FACT ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ... nothing you posted negates the validity of my statements.
Click to expand...


Your Loss created a vindictiveness not see before,care to answer that.


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## namvet

theliq said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> meet 911 blow job
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ain't she cute ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a child..... this is neither funny or amusing Idiot.......
Click to expand...


911 is a child. i want your opinion asswipe ill give it to you


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## theliq

namvet said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> meet 911 blow job
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ain't she cute ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a child..... this is neither funny or amusing Idiot.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 911 is a child. i want your opinion asswipe ill give it to you
Click to expand...


What does this have to do with 9/11......as an arsewipe I shall give you my opinion when and where I think it's relevant......no, thin skinned namvet,take that silver spoon out of your arse and shove it in your mouth.... got IT


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## LA RAM FAN

theliq said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> FACT ...
> 
> 
> 
> ... nothing you posted negates the validity of my statements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your Loss created a vindictiveness not see before,care to answer that.
Click to expand...


amusing that he actually thinks his posts are valid one bit at all.  I love how he CLAIMS they dont when he failed miserably to refute any of my facts and at the same time,ignored all of mine not addressing a SINGLE ONE.


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## LA RAM FAN

theliq said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> meet 911 blow job
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ain't she cute ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a child..... this is neither funny or amusing Idiot.......
Click to expand...


Its probably a picture of himself that he wants to advertise to everyone.


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## LA RAM FAN

Bgallo28 said:


> Interesting read.



gld that you are one of the posters to come on here and actually read EVERY word in the OP instead of just reading what the thread title says and posting what you think you know.Im glad you did not do that like some others do.appreciate it that you actually took the time to read and understand it.


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## LA RAM FAN

theliq said:


> M14 Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> back for more ass beatings as always I see...  blah blah blah
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  Nixon got us out of Vietnam
> Fact:  This is true no matter how much you hate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Got you out of a complete failure,well that NO BIG SHAKES .......IS IT.
> 
> Nixon really was a BAD ASS....as you know.....why do you defend the indefensible anyway.
> 
> 9/11 is right.
Click to expand...




a MURDERING BAD ASS no less.


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## namvet

9/11 inside job said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> meet 911 blow job
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ain't she cute ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a child..... this is neither funny or amusing Idiot.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its probably a picture of himself that he wants to advertise to everyone.
Click to expand...


never figured out what a DD214 was huh stupid??? its a military resume i have one. proof i served. did you?? ah no they peeked under your dress.  your a *fuckin' coward* anyway. men have to fight. little pussy's like you stay home and hide under momma's dress. just as well. you wouldn't last a day. "momma, momma i wanna come home" 






time for mom to change those shitty diapers. pussy


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## LA RAM FAN

someone farted in here.


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## namvet

9/11 inside job said:


> someone farted in here.



as usual your standard come back. you truly are stupid


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## Dude111

9/11 inside job said:
			
		

> Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.


I think its sad THEY GOT RID OF HIM just because he wouldnt play thier evil games!! (But thats to be expected of scum trash)


God bless JFK!


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