# Who Are The Palestinains?



## MJB12741

Let us consider the facts.  Fair enough?

http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/01/09/palestinians-invented-people/


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## Truthseeker420

The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.


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## jillian

Truthseeker420 said:


> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.



no.... learn history...

bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.

there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.


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## Hossfly

Truthseeker420 said:


> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.


I assume you read the link, especially about the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans, which is historically factual, and you still make those idiotic claims? That would put you in the category of 'Palestinan Shill'.


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## Billo_Really

jillian said:


> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.


Why don't you learn a little history?

Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.


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## Truthseeker420

Hossfly said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you read the link, especially about the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans, which is historically factual, and you still make those idiotic claims? That would put you in the category of 'Palestinan Shill'.
Click to expand...



My opinion is based on my own research not an Islamophobic website.


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## Billo_Really

Israeli-Jews are the myth!



> _When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?
> 
> ...*the Diaspora was largely a myth *&#8211; that the Jews were never exiled en masse from the Holy Land and that many European Jewish populations converted to the faith centuries later.
> 
> ...many of today&#8217;s Israelis who emigrated from Europe after World War II have little or no genealogical connection to the land.
> 
> According to...historical analysis, *they are descendents of European converts*, principally from the Kingdom of the Khazars in eastern Russia, who embraced Judaism in the Eighth Century, A.D.
> 
> The descendants of the Khazars then were driven from their native lands by invasion and conquest and &#8211; through this migration &#8211; created the Jewish populations of Eastern Europe. Similarly...the Jews of Spain came from the conversion of Berber tribes from northern Africa that later migrated into Europe._


Talk about invented people!


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## Hossfly

Truthseeker420 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you read the link, especially about the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans, which is historically factual, and you still make those idiotic claims? That would put you in the category of 'Palestinan Shill'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My opinion is based on my own research not an Islamophobic website.
Click to expand...

So you researched the Islamophobia website Encyclopaedia Brittanica and Babylonians, Assyrian and Roman history was lying and wrong? Thanks, Bub, I can throw all my encyclopedia and reference books away as they are all lying trash.


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## MJB12741

What they refuse to understand or are simply incapable of understanding is that the indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS!  There were no Muslims at all until the 7th century AD, let alone Muslim Palestinians.  Perhaps a few Jews converted to Islam during the Muslim invasion.  However the overwhelming majority of Palestinians living in the land are just a bunch of land thieves for generations with no deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.





Hossfly said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you read the link, especially about the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans, which is historically factual, and you still make those idiotic claims? That would put you in the category of 'Palestinan Shill'.
Click to expand...


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## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Israeli-Jews are the myth!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?
> 
> ...*the Diaspora was largely a myth *&#8211; that the Jews were never exiled en masse from the Holy Land and that many European Jewish populations converted to the faith centuries later.
> 
> ...many of today&#8217;s Israelis who emigrated from Europe after World War II have little or no genealogical connection to the land.
> 
> According to...historical analysis, *they are descendents of European converts*, principally from the Kingdom of the Khazars in eastern Russia, who embraced Judaism in the Eighth Century, A.D.
> 
> The descendants of the Khazars then were driven from their native lands by invasion and conquest and &#8211; through this migration &#8211; created the Jewish populations of Eastern Europe. Similarly...the Jews of Spain came from the conversion of Berber tribes from northern Africa that later migrated into Europe._
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about invented people!
Click to expand...

Damn, I didn't know Ephriam and Manasseh were invented!  Then I don't even exist? Wondered why I was feeling shitty lately.


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## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
Click to expand...


So who was there prior to 2000 years ago?
Why did they leave?
Did they leave voluntarily?
Were they forced out?

I look forward to your answers.


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## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Damn, I didn't know Ephriam and Manasseh were invented!  Then I don't even exist? Wondered why I was feeling shitty lately.


You always feel shitty when you're mean to me!


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## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> So who was there prior to 2000 years ago?


I don't give a shit!



Indeependent said:


> Why did they leave?


Don't give a shit about that, either!



Indeependent said:


> Did they leave voluntarily?


Or that!



Indeependent said:


> Were they forced out?


Or that!



Indeependent said:


> I look forward to your answers.


I'm a white, Irish Catholic, from Long Beach, Ca.

Why should I give a shit about any of that?


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## Truthseeker420

Hossfly said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you read the link, especially about the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans, which is historically factual, and you still make those idiotic claims? That would put you in the category of 'Palestinan Shill'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My opinion is based on my own research not an Islamophobic website.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you researched the Islamophobia website Encyclopaedia Brittanica and Babylonians, Assyrian and Roman history was lying and wrong? Thanks, Bub, I can throw all my encyclopedia and reference books away as they are all lying trash.
Click to expand...


 Encyclopædia Britannica is a source that should be viewed with a grain of salt.


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## jillian

Billo_Really said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
Click to expand...


no.... 

what was the government of palestine?

who was it's head of state?

who were the trading partners of "palestine"?

what did "palestine" manufacture/export?

until you can answer those questions, you can feel free to keep your anti-semitic lies to yourself and don't bother posting to me.

mmmmmkay?


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## Sweet_Caroline

Palestinians are a myth, straight from the horse's mouth.


From text on Youtube page:

Just like "Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti" born in "tikrit iraq"
The family names(Nisbah &#1606;&#1587;&#1576;&#1577 of Arabs who&#65279;&#65279; now occupy&#65279; judea&#65279; reveal their country of origin:
"Masri" OR "al-masri" =from Egypt ,Hamas member of Parliament in gaza, Mushir al-Masri (the word "masri" littelery means "the egyption" in arabic !).

"Khamis"= from Bahrain "Salem Hanna Khamis"
"al-ubayyidi" or "al-Obeidi"= from sudan "al-ubayyid" 
"al-Faruqi"= Mosul iraq 
"al-Araj" = Morocco,a member of the Saadi Dynasty "Hussein al-Araj"
"al-Lubnani" =the lebanese
"al-Mughrabi" = the Moroccan ("Maghreb" -- meaning "West" in Arabic, and usually referring to North Africa or specifically to Morocco) ,"Dalal Mughrabi"
"al-Djazair"=the Algerian
"al-Qurashi"=saudi arabia "clan of Quraish" 
"al-azd" =yemen "Azd tribe"
"al-Yamani"= the Yemeni "Issam Al Yamani"
"al-Afghani" = the Afghan
"Al-Sidawi" = from "Sidon" lebanon
"Al-fayyumi" = from "Faiyum" egypt
"al-Hijazi" or "Hijazi" = present-day saudi arabia "Ahlam Higazi, a "Palestinian" artist from Hebron"
"al-Hindi" =the Indian "Amin al-Hindi"
"al-Tamimi" or "Tamimi" = from the tribe or clan of Banu-Tamim "Azzam Tamimi"
"Hamati" = from syria ( HAMA city)
"Omayya" = from saudi arabia "Banu Omayya tribe" "Omayya Joha" "palestinian artist" "
"Othman" = turkey
"murad" =yemen "murad tribe"
"Alawi" = from syria (minority religious group in syria)
"Iraqi"&#65279; =from Iraq.
"halabi" =from aleppo syria 
"Dajani"= from saudi arabia 
"Mattar" = from YEMEN (the village of BANI Mattar)
"al-baghdadi"= from bagdad iraq.
"Tarabulsi"= &#65279;&#65279;Tarabulus-Tripoli, Lebanon.
"Hourani" =Houran Syria.
"Zubeidi"= from iraq "Zubeidi tribe" "Zakaria Zubeidi"
"al-Husayni" =saudi arabia.
"Saudi" =Saudi Arabia.
"Metzarwah"=egypt.
"Barda***********wil" ="salah bardawil" HAMAS legislator in gaza,egypt "bardawil lake" area
"nashashibi"= syria.
"Bushnak" =bosnia
"zoabi"= from iraq "Haneen Zoabi".
"Turki" =turkey "Daud Turki"
"al-Kurd" = kurdistan.
"Haddadins" = YEMEN descended from Ghassanid Christian Arabs.
"Arab Abu-Kishk" = Egypt.(Bedouins)
"Arab al shakirat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al zabidat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al aramsha" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Abu Sitta" =In Arabic' Abu means father and sitta means six. Translated it actually means father of six. The Abu Sitta family primarily received this name because around the year 1700, a well known knight of the large Al-Tarabeen tribe always had six slaves (i.e. fedawyah, bodyguards), 3 on each side, with him. They were with him wherever he went, day or night. Hence the name "ABU SITTA." =Egypt (Bedouins) "Salman Abu Sitta "
"Nuba, Hebron" =founded by the "nuba people"
Even "Arafat",&#65279; the most famous fakestinian and leader of the terrorist grup the &#65279; P.L.O,&#65279; is not native to judea. He&#65279; called himself&#65279; a "Palestinian refugee" and claimed he was born in jerusalem ! BUT spoke
Arabic with Egyptian dialect. He was born in 1929 Cairo, Egypt. He served in the Egyptian army,&#65279;&#65279; studied in the University of Cairo, and lived&#65279; in&#65279; Cairo until 1956 !
Arafat's full name was&#65279; Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf&#65279; Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini.
"Al-Qudwa" tribe origin?


-Professor Azmi Bishara(Arabic: &#1593;&#1586;&#1605;&#1610; &#1576;&#1588;&#1575;&#1585;&#1577-- a "palestinian arab"

"There is no "palestinian nation" !
when were there any Palestinians??? LOL
until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of "Greater Syria" another resent invention.
there is&#65279; only an arab nation !
the word "palestine" its self is a colonial invention used by&#65279; the romans in order to erase&#65279; the jewish identity of judea and israel.
even the "Palestinian National Charter" recognizes all the jews living in the region prior to the 1948 war as "palestinians" !
its an intellectual fad, divorced from the concerns of uneducated people"




-Zuheir Mohsen (Arabic: &#1586;&#1607;&#1610;&#1585; &#1605;&#1581;&#1587;&#1606- top p.l.o member responsible for damur massacre.

"The "Palestinian people" does not exist. The creation&#65279; of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a "Palestinian people".."


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## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I didn't know Ephriam and Manasseh were invented!  Then I don't even exist? Wondered why I was feeling shitty lately.
> 
> 
> 
> You always feel shitty when you're mean to me!
Click to expand...

Billy, you should know we love you like family and only treat you like the autistic, mongoloid spastic you are and we aren't ashamed to be seen with you in public.


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## toastman

Truthseeker420 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My opinion is based on my own research not an Islamophobic website.
> 
> 
> 
> So you researched the Islamophobia website Encyclopaedia Brittanica and Babylonians, Assyrian and Roman history was lying and wrong? Thanks, Bub, I can throw all my encyclopedia and reference books away as they are all lying trash.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Encyclopædia Britannica is a source that should be viewed with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...


What do you base this on?


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## jillian

toastman said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you researched the Islamophobia website Encyclopaedia Brittanica and Babylonians, Assyrian and Roman history was lying and wrong? Thanks, Bub, I can throw all my encyclopedia and reference books away as they are all lying trash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopædia Britannica is a source that should be viewed with a grain of salt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you base this on?
Click to expand...


the voices in his head


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## Truthseeker420

toastman said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you researched the Islamophobia website Encyclopaedia Brittanica and Babylonians, Assyrian and Roman history was lying and wrong? Thanks, Bub, I can throw all my encyclopedia and reference books away as they are all lying trash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopædia Britannica is a source that should be viewed with a grain of salt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you base this on?
Click to expand...


It's owner is a well known Zionist and supporter of Israel.


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## Indeependent

Truthseeker420 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopædia Britannica is a source that should be viewed with a grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you base this on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's owner is a well known Zionist and supporter of Israel.
Click to expand...


You will be hard pressed to find an Information based corporation that ISN'T owned by a Jew.

As opposed to all of those well known Mis-Information web sites run by Moslems.


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## RoccoR

Indeependent,  _et al,_






*EXECUTIVE TEAM*


JORGE CAUZ, PRESIDENT
Jorge has been president of EB since 2003 and has steered the company toward greater diversification through new product initiatives in curriculum, e-learning, and educational portals, among others. He has also overseen the companys expansion into new markets around the world. He joined Britannica in 1996, and before becoming president he held several marketing and strategy positions in the company. He was previously with Andersen Consulting, A.T. Kearney, and Rohm and Hass Company.  Jorge holds an M.B.A. from the Kellogg Graduate School of Management of Northwestern University.​

RICHARD ANDERSON, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER
Dick joined the company in 1995 and is responsible for working capital management, financial reporting, cost containment, order fulfillment and other operational and financial issues. Prior to joining Britannica, he was an auditor for Ernst & Young and held management positions at Thomson Newspapers Corporation, Nalco Chemical Company, and Standard Alliance Industries.​

WILLIAM BOWE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL
Bill has been with Britannica since 1986. He oversees the companys legal and human resource departments. He is also responsible for the management of domestic and foreign patent, trademark, copyright, licensing and contract issues and has published and lectured widely on these issues as the industry moved to electronic publishing. He holds a law degree from the University of Chicago and a bachelors degree from Yale University.​

GREG HEALY, CHIEF PRODUCT OFFICER
Greg directs the creation of new products, which today include a host of new online and mobile products in preK-12 curriculum, English-language instruction, e-books, and others. He has a strong background in technology and a record of creating successful, customer-friendly online services. His most recent position was with Sears Corp., where he led e-commerce businesses at sears.com and managemylife.com. Before that he held positions with business units of the Tribune Company and CareerBuilder.com. Greg holds a bachelor of science degree from Marist College and a masters of business administration from Thunderbird, the American Graduate School of International Management.​

DALE HOIBERG, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND EDITOR
Dale has been with Britannica since 1978, and before becoming editor-in-chief in 1997 he held a series of positions in the companys editorial department and in international product development. Among other roles, he served as the liaison with Britannicas publishing partners in the development of several non-English encyclopedias. He holds a Ph.D. in Chinese literature from the University of Chicago. He serves today as Britannicas chief editor and is responsible for development of the content of all Britannica products and for maintaining Britannica editorial and quality standards.​

LEAH MANSOOR, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, BRITANNICA DIGITAL LEARNING INTERNATIONAL
Leah manages EBs businesses in South America and Asia and the Pacific Rim, including offices in the Australia, Korea, and Japan. She is also responsible for the Britannica subsidiaries Britannica Knowledge Systems U.S. and Melingo U.S. Before joining Britannica, Leah was an IT instructor and a programmer in the Israeli army and held executive positions at Comfy, Inc., a developer of education and entertainment products for young children; and the non-profit Centre for Educational Technology. She has lived in Tel Aviv, New York, Denver, and Chicago. She constantly travels the world and considers her two kids as her greatest achievement.​

MICHAEL ROSS, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, BRITANNICA DIGITAL LEARNING US AND EMEA
As head of the companys education division Michael has broad responsibilities for the sales, marketing, and distribution of Britannica products in schools, libraries, universities, and other institutionsthe companys largest sources of revenue. Hes been active in publishing circles for decades and has worked in every aspect of the industry, including editorial, product development and acquisition, strategic marketing, and sales. He was previously executive vice president and publisher with World Book, Inc. and also held positions at NTC Publishing Group, McDougal Littell, and Time-Life Books. A prolific writer and lecturer, his book Publishing Without Borders: Strategies for Successful International Publishing, was published in 2003, and Publishing Without Boundaries: How to Think, Work, and Win in The Global Marketplace in January 2007. He speaks often at international conferences on electronic publishing and licensing and was inducted into Printmedias Production Executives Hall of Fame in 2002. A former AEP board member, he served as president from 2002-2003. In December 2009 he was inducted into AEPs Hall of Fame. He holds a B.A. (summa cum laude) from the University of Minnesota, an M.A. from Brandeis University, and a certificate from Stanford University in Advanced Management.​
I don't think any of them are Jewish.



Indeependent said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you base this on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's owner is a well known Zionist and supporter of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You will be hard pressed to find an Information based corporation that ISN'T owned by a Jew.
> 
> As opposed to all of those well known Mis-Information web sites run by Moslems.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

But even if one was Jewish, how does that impact data mining and presentation?

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Sally

RoccoR said:


> Indeependent,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EXECUTIVE TEAM*
> 
> 
> JORGE CAUZ, PRESIDENT
> Jorge has been president of EB since 2003 and has steered the company toward greater diversification through new product initiatives in curriculum, e-learning, and educational portals, among others. He has also overseen the companys expansion into new markets around the world. He joined Britannica in 1996, and before becoming president he held several marketing and strategy positions in the company. He was previously with Andersen Consulting, A.T. Kearney, and Rohm and Hass Company.  Jorge holds an M.B.A. from the Kellogg Graduate School of Management of Northwestern University.​
> 
> RICHARD ANDERSON, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER
> Dick joined the company in 1995 and is responsible for working capital management, financial reporting, cost containment, order fulfillment and other operational and financial issues. Prior to joining Britannica, he was an auditor for Ernst & Young and held management positions at Thomson Newspapers Corporation, Nalco Chemical Company, and Standard Alliance Industries.​
> 
> WILLIAM BOWE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL
> Bill has been with Britannica since 1986. He oversees the companys legal and human resource departments. He is also responsible for the management of domestic and foreign patent, trademark, copyright, licensing and contract issues and has published and lectured widely on these issues as the industry moved to electronic publishing. He holds a law degree from the University of Chicago and a bachelors degree from Yale University.​
> 
> GREG HEALY, CHIEF PRODUCT OFFICER
> Greg directs the creation of new products, which today include a host of new online and mobile products in preK-12 curriculum, English-language instruction, e-books, and others. He has a strong background in technology and a record of creating successful, customer-friendly online services. His most recent position was with Sears Corp., where he led e-commerce businesses at sears.com and managemylife.com. Before that he held positions with business units of the Tribune Company and CareerBuilder.com. Greg holds a bachelor of science degree from Marist College and a masters of business administration from Thunderbird, the American Graduate School of International Management.​
> 
> DALE HOIBERG, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND EDITOR
> Dale has been with Britannica since 1978, and before becoming editor-in-chief in 1997 he held a series of positions in the companys editorial department and in international product development. Among other roles, he served as the liaison with Britannicas publishing partners in the development of several non-English encyclopedias. He holds a Ph.D. in Chinese literature from the University of Chicago. He serves today as Britannicas chief editor and is responsible for development of the content of all Britannica products and for maintaining Britannica editorial and quality standards.​
> 
> LEAH MANSOOR, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, BRITANNICA DIGITAL LEARNING INTERNATIONAL
> Leah manages EBs businesses in South America and Asia and the Pacific Rim, including offices in the Australia, Korea, and Japan. She is also responsible for the Britannica subsidiaries Britannica Knowledge Systems U.S. and Melingo U.S. Before joining Britannica, Leah was an IT instructor and a programmer in the Israeli army and held executive positions at Comfy, Inc., a developer of education and entertainment products for young children; and the non-profit Centre for Educational Technology. She has lived in Tel Aviv, New York, Denver, and Chicago. She constantly travels the world and considers her two kids as her greatest achievement.​
> 
> MICHAEL ROSS, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, BRITANNICA DIGITAL LEARNING US AND EMEA
> As head of the companys education division Michael has broad responsibilities for the sales, marketing, and distribution of Britannica products in schools, libraries, universities, and other institutionsthe companys largest sources of revenue. Hes been active in publishing circles for decades and has worked in every aspect of the industry, including editorial, product development and acquisition, strategic marketing, and sales. He was previously executive vice president and publisher with World Book, Inc. and also held positions at NTC Publishing Group, McDougal Littell, and Time-Life Books. A prolific writer and lecturer, his book Publishing Without Borders: Strategies for Successful International Publishing, was published in 2003, and Publishing Without Boundaries: How to Think, Work, and Win in The Global Marketplace in January 2007. He speaks often at international conferences on electronic publishing and licensing and was inducted into Printmedias Production Executives Hall of Fame in 2002. A former AEP board member, he served as president from 2002-2003. In December 2009 he was inducted into AEPs Hall of Fame. He holds a B.A. (summa cum laude) from the University of Minnesota, an M.A. from Brandeis University, and a certificate from Stanford University in Advanced Management.​
> I don't think any of them are Jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's owner is a well known Zionist and supporter of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will be hard pressed to find an Information based corporation that ISN'T owned by a Jew.
> 
> As opposed to all of those well known Mis-Information web sites run by Moslems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But even if one was Jewish, how does that impact data mining and presentation?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Thanks, Rocco.  That was a silly statement for the Truthseeker to make.  However, we do know that the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites keep saying that the media in the U.S. is run by Jews.  One time when someone said this, a retired teacher who was an excellent researcher posted all the main media in the U.S. and they certainly were not headed by Jews.  In fact, out here, the Los Angeles Times, a big city newspaper, isn't run by Jews.


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## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
Click to expand...


The belief that Palestinians are all recent immigrants is based on the false premise that whenever a new flag is raise over city hall the entire population moves out and a whole new population moves in. Of course that is not true.

After WWI Palestine's international borders were defined. It was called Palestine because historically that is what it was called.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7_ib_9tkSM]Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube[/ame]

Legally, all of the people whose normal residence was inside those international borders when they were defined are Palestinians.


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## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> The belief that Palestinians are all recent immigrants is based on the false premise that whenever a new flag is raise over city hall the entire population moves out and a whole new population moves in. Of course that is not true.
> 
> After WWI Palestine's international borders were defined. It was called Palestine because historically that is what it was called.
> 
> Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> 
> Legally, all of the people whose normal residence was inside those international borders when they were defined are Palestinians.


And Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in virtual peace with each other until asshole Zionists moved into the area and fucked everything up.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Billy, you should know we love you like family and only treat you like the autistic, mongoloid spastic you are and we aren't ashamed to be seen with you in public.


Sometimes I don't like to be seen with me in public, so what else is new?


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The belief that Palestinians are all recent immigrants is based on the false premise that whenever a new flag is raise over city hall the entire population moves out and a whole new population moves in. Of course that is not true.
> 
> After WWI Palestine's international borders were defined. It was called Palestine because historically that is what it was called.
> 
> Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> 
> Legally, all of the people whose normal residence was inside those international borders when they were defined are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in virtual peace with each other until asshole Zionists moved into the area and fucked everything up.
Click to expand...

Maybe if the Arabs didn't try to wipe them out every chance they got... Now all they have left are their reservations. Sound familiar?


----------



## P F Tinmore

MrMax said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The belief that Palestinians are all recent immigrants is based on the false premise that whenever a new flag is raise over city hall the entire population moves out and a whole new population moves in. Of course that is not true.
> 
> After WWI Palestine's international borders were defined. It was called Palestine because historically that is what it was called.
> 
> Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> 
> Legally, all of the people whose normal residence was inside those international borders when they were defined are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in virtual peace with each other until asshole Zionists moved into the area and fucked everything up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe if the Arabs didn't try to wipe them out every chance they got... Now all they have left are their reservations. Sound familiar?
Click to expand...


Which "them" are you talking about?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in virtual peace with each other until asshole Zionists moved into the area and fucked everything up.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if the Arabs didn't try to wipe them out every chance they got... Now all they have left are their reservations. Sound familiar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which "them" are you talking about?
Click to expand...

You know, Tinny. "Them".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if the Arabs didn't try to wipe them out every chance they got... Now all they have left are their reservations. Sound familiar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which "them" are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know, Tinny. "Them".
Click to expand...


Ah, them.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PLls02gOU]THEM! - YouTube[/ame]

Indeed, maybe they should be wiped out.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which "them" are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> You know, Tinny. "Them".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, them.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PLls02gOU]THEM! - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Indeed, maybe they should be wiped out.
Click to expand...


No, not them Tinmore! Them !!


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which "them" are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> You know, Tinny. "Them".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, them.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PLls02gOU]THEM! - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Indeed, maybe they should be wiped out.
Click to expand...

They missed one, Tinny! They'll be back!


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The belief that Palestinians are all recent immigrants is based on the false premise that whenever a new flag is raise over city hall the entire population moves out and a whole new population moves in. Of course that is not true.
> 
> After WWI Palestine's international borders were defined. It was called Palestine because historically that is what it was called.
> 
> Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> 
> Legally, all of the people whose normal residence was inside those international borders when they were defined are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in virtual peace with each other until asshole Zionists moved into the area and fucked everything up.
Click to expand...


Actually, it's the asshole Arab states that fucked everything up when 5 of them ganged up on a tiny little country and attacked FROM EVERY SIDE. 
That was by far the most influential event that has impacted the situation the most.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, Tinny. "Them".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, them.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PLls02gOU]THEM! - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Indeed, maybe they should be wiped out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, not them Tinmore! Them !!
Click to expand...


This them?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbeqj-1XOo]Pink Floyd - Us and Them - YouTube[/ame]

Them are the opposite of us.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The belief that Palestinians are all recent immigrants is based on the false premise that whenever a new flag is raise over city hall the entire population moves out and a whole new population moves in. Of course that is not true.
> 
> After WWI Palestine's international borders were defined. It was called Palestine because historically that is what it was called.
> 
> Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> 
> Legally, all of the people whose normal residence was inside those international borders when they were defined are Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in virtual peace with each other until asshole Zionists moved into the area and fucked everything up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the asshole Arab states that fucked everything up when 5 of them ganged up on a tiny little country and attacked FROM EVERY SIDE.
> That was by far the most influential event that has impacted the situation the most.
Click to expand...


Naw, it was the Zionists who fucked things up first.

They always claimed to be first.


----------



## Bloodrock44

Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Bloodrock44 said:


> Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E



Is that the stock footage of the Palestinians celebrating the signing of Oslo?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs lived in virtual peace with each other until asshole Zionists moved into the area and fucked everything up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's the asshole Arab states that fucked everything up when 5 of them ganged up on a tiny little country and attacked FROM EVERY SIDE.
> That was by far the most influential event that has impacted the situation the most.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Naw, it was the Zionists who fucked things up first.
> 
> They always claimed to be first.
Click to expand...


Oh, if we're talking about who fucked things up first, it's absolutely the Arabs:

1834 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Accounts of the month long pogrom[7][8][9] which tell of large scale looting,[10] killing and raping of Jews as well as the destruction of their homes and synagogues by local Druse and Muslim Arabs. Many Torah scrolls were desecrated[4] and many Jews were left severely wounded.[11][12] Hundreds fled the town seeking refuge in the open countryside or in neighbouring villages. The rioting was quelled by Lebanese Druse troops under the orders of Ibrahim Pasha following the intervention of foreign consuls. The instigators were arrested and later executed in Acre.

Safed Riots


1929 Safed riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1929, when Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, told his followers that Jews were preparing to take over the Al-Aqsa Mosque, anti-Jewish riots erupted across Palestine that became known as the 1929 Palestine riots. The Safed riot was part of this wave of violence.[2]

Between eighteen and twenty Jews were killed and eighty wounded.[3] The main Jewish street was looted and burned.[4][5] The members of the Commission of Inquiry visited the town on 1 November 1929.[6]



1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 1929 Palestine riots, also known as the Western Wall Uprising, the 1929 Massacres, (Hebrew: &#1502;&#1488;&#1493;&#1512;&#1506;&#1493;&#1514; &#1514;&#1512;&#1508;"&#1496;, Meora'ot Tarpat, lit. Events of 5689 Anno Mundi), or the Buraq Uprising (Arabic: &#1579;&#1608;&#1585;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1585;&#1575;&#1602;*), refers to a series of demonstrations and riots in late August 1929 when a long-running dispute between Muslims and Jews over access to the Western Wall in Jerusalem escalated into violence. The riots took the form in the most part of attacks by Arabs on Jews accompanied by destruction of Jewish property. During the week of riots from 23 to 29 August 133 Jews were killed by Arabs and 339 others were injured, while 110 Arabs were killed and 232 were injured, many by British police while trying to suppress the riots.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]


Hebron Massacre

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Hebron massacre refers to the killing of sixty-seven Jews (including 23 college students) on 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of Mandatory Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by false rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places.[1] The event also left scores seriously wounded or maimed. Jewish homes were pillaged and synagogues were ransacked.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, them.
> 
> THEM! - YouTube
> 
> Indeed, maybe they should be wiped out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not them Tinmore! Them !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This them?
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbeqj-1XOo]Pink Floyd - Us and Them - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Them are the opposite of us.
Click to expand...


By far one of my favourite songs!!

How did you know Tinmore!??


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the stock footage of the Palestinians celebrating the signing of Oslo?
Click to expand...

Of course, Tinhore. That was on CNN too and so was Donald Duck. I remember that very broadcast.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the stock footage of the Palestinians celebrating the signing of Oslo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, Tinhore. That was on CNN too and so was Donald Duck. I remember that very broadcast.
Click to expand...


Indeed it was all over the place. That means that it was distributed by somebody.

Who was that somebody. Do we know the source of that video?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the stock footage of the Palestinians celebrating the signing of Oslo?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Tinhore. That was on CNN too and so was Donald Duck. I remember that very broadcast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed it was all over the place. That means that it was distributed by somebody.
> 
> Who was that somebody. Do we know the source of that video?
Click to expand...

That was a Fox News video, Tinmore. WTF is your major malfunction? It's real and no one is lying. In other words, this ain't a Pallywood production.


----------



## Hossfly

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Tinhore. That was on CNN too and so was Donald Duck. I remember that very broadcast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed it was all over the place. That means that it was distributed by somebody.
> 
> Who was that somebody. Do we know the source of that video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a Fox News video, Tinmore. WTF is your major malfunction? It's real and no one is lying. In other words, this ain't a Pallywood production.
Click to expand...

Actually that was a 5 year remembrance of an NBC "Today" show and it was a combination of ongoing events from the major cable news shows on 9/11/2001. All the terrorist supporters here try to make believe it was about some idiotic happening somewhere else in Fantasyland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Tinhore. That was on CNN too and so was Donald Duck. I remember that very broadcast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed it was all over the place. That means that it was distributed by somebody.
> 
> Who was that somebody. Do we know the source of that video?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a Fox News video, Tinmore. WTF is your major malfunction? It's real and no one is lying. In other words, this ain't a Pallywood production.
Click to expand...


I saw Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and nobody gave credit to the source. They usually give credit to sources that are not theirs.


----------



## Billo_Really

Bloodrock44 said:


> Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E


The media outlet they got that video from, has already admitted the video was of an earlier celebration not related to 9/11, but that was the only footage of Palestinian's celebrating that they had.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed it was all over the place. That means that it was distributed by somebody.
> 
> Who was that somebody. Do we know the source of that video?
> 
> 
> 
> That was a Fox News video, Tinmore. WTF is your major malfunction? It's real and no one is lying. In other words, this ain't a Pallywood production.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I saw Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and nobody gave credit to the source. They usually give credit to sources that are not theirs.
Click to expand...

Look at the banner crawling at the bottom of the TV screen and near the end it tells all the pertinent facts, And then I don't want anymore BS from you.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E
> 
> 
> 
> The media outlet they got that video from, has already admitted the video was of an earlier celebration not related to 9/11, but that was the only footage of Palestinian's celebrating that they had.
Click to expand...

Of course they did. Better hit the sack, Billy, you're getting lightheaded.


----------



## aris2chat

Billo_Really said:


> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E
> 
> 
> 
> The media outlet they got that video from, has already admitted the video was of an earlier celebration not related to 9/11, but that was the only footage of Palestinian's celebrating that they had.
Click to expand...


WRONG!

snopes.com: Palestinians Dancing in the Street
Reactions to the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Why Did So Many Muslims Seem to Celebrate 9/11? - US News
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=364&x_context=7
Palestinians Cheer While America Mourns | FrontPage Magazine
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa091101aa.htm


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was a Fox News video, Tinmore. WTF is your major malfunction? It's real and no one is lying. In other words, this ain't a Pallywood production.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and nobody gave credit to the source. They usually give credit to sources that are not theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the banner crawling at the bottom of the TV screen and near the end it tells all the pertinent facts, And then I don't want anymore BS from you.
Click to expand...


I did. Did you read my post?



> I saw Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and nobody gave credit to the source. They usually give credit to sources that are not theirs.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and nobody gave credit to the source. They usually give credit to sources that are not theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the banner crawling at the bottom of the TV screen and near the end it tells all the pertinent facts, And then I don't want anymore BS from you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did. Did you read my post?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and nobody gave credit to the source. They usually give credit to sources that are not theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The source was the NBC Today show. What's the BFD anyhow? It was a Pali celebration on 9/11 and not celebrating a soccer victory. That's been proven.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the banner crawling at the bottom of the TV screen and near the end it tells all the pertinent facts, And then I don't want anymore BS from you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did. Did you read my post?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw Fox, CNN, and MSNBC and nobody gave credit to the source. They usually give credit to sources that are not theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The source was the NBC Today show. What's the BFD anyhow? It was a Pali celebration on 9/11 and not celebrating a soccer victory. That's been proven.
Click to expand...


How do you know? You don't know the source.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did. Did you read my post?
> 
> 
> 
> The source was the NBC Today show. What's the BFD anyhow? It was a Pali celebration on 9/11 and not celebrating a soccer victory. That's been proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know? You don't know the source.
Click to expand...

It says on the screen and on the banner. You think it's a dirty Zionist trick? Say good night, Gracie.


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Fakestinians? You mean the ones who celebrated 3000 dead Americans on 9/11? The same ones Tinny and Billo worship? Those Fakestinians?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E
> 
> 
> 
> The media outlet they got that video from, has already admitted the video was of an earlier celebration not related to 9/11, but that was the only footage of Palestinian's celebrating that they had.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course they did. Better hit the sack, Billy, you're getting lightheaded.
Click to expand...


He laps up the lying ooze as if manna without checking facts 
People like him will suck up any urban legend, misleading email, propaganda or claim on questionable sites that suit his personal prejudice.  At least a dozen videos of the palestinians and more of the rest of the middle east and refugee camps outside of the WB or gaza.  They are all outdated videos?  No, they showed accurately how they felt about the tragic attacks on the US, celebrating bin laden even before the release of the hijackers martyr videos.  They knew before the US was sure.  Bin laden had already attack the US several times (on US soil) but not the US mainland.  They knew and were celebrating the death of so many innocent victims.


----------



## MrMax

Palestinians are people who don't know when their beaten and like to be used by other arab states as pawns against Israel and the people who laugh at such a backwards religion like islam.


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> He laps up the lying ooze as if manna without checking facts
> People like him will suck up any urban legend, misleading email, propaganda or claim on questionable sites that suit his personal prejudice.  At least a dozen videos of the palestinians and more of the rest of the middle east and refugee camps outside of the WB or gaza.  They are all outdated videos?  No, they showed accurately how they felt about the tragic attacks on the US, celebrating bin laden even before the release of the hijackers martyr videos.  They knew before the US was sure.  Bin laden had already attack the US several times (on US soil) but not the US mainland.  They knew and were celebrating the death of so many innocent victims.


Coming from someone who posts something completely different from the link they provided.


----------



## Roudy

Truthseeker420 said:


> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.


Nope. The "PHILISTINES" are Greek sea faring people's who became extinct.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
Click to expand...

Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So who was there prior to 2000 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a shit!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did they leave?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't give a shit about that, either!
> 
> Or that!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were they forced out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or that!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I look forward to your answers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm a white, Irish Catholic, from Long Beach, Ca.
> 
> Why should I give a shit about any of that?
Click to expand...

I think you meant to say that you don't know shit, which is why you make such shitty claims about Arab history.


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, I didn't know Ephriam and Manasseh were invented!  Then I don't even exist? Wondered why I was feeling shitty lately.
> 
> 
> 
> You always feel shitty when you're mean to me!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Billy, you should know we love you like family and only treat you like the autistic, mongoloid spastic you are and we aren't ashamed to be seen with you in public.
Click to expand...


----------



## Chuckt

Roudy said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. The "PHILISTINES" are Greek sea faring people's who became extinct.
Click to expand...


There is no "P" in Arabic so they would be Fallistinians.


----------



## MrMax

Palestinians are the ones all other arabs don't give a shit about.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
Click to expand...


Hmm, this passport is from 1925 and it says the person is Palestinian.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, this passport is from 1925 and it says the person is Palestinian.
Click to expand...


All people from there had passports issued by the British officials which said that they were Palestinians, but the actual Arabs called themselves Arabs or Syrians, and if you called them a Palestinian it would be like you were insulting them because  you would be calling them a Jew.  Perhaps you can tell us who manned the Palestine booth at the World's Fair in New York City in 1940.  What was the Jerusalem Post originally called and who were the ones who established that newspaper in the first place?  As one retired State Department poster who wasn't Jewish once said...........

Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.


----------



## aris2chat

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, this passport is from 1925 and it says the person is Palestinian.
Click to expand...


Her Majesty's commission, it is a mandate passport, not that of a palestinian state.


----------



## Roudy

Chuckt said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. The "PHILISTINES" are Greek sea faring people's who became extinct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no "P" in Arabic so they would be Fallistinians.
Click to expand...

Well, to be exact it's "Balestinians."

Blease.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, this passport is from 1925 and it says the person is Palestinian.
Click to expand...

Glad you brought that up.  Palestine was an area designated to be the Jewish homeland, after much Arab whining, they decided to give the Jordan half of it to the "Arab Palestinians" and Israel would of course be the Jewish Palestine.  Arabs of course didn't even accept that, after most of the 99% of the remains of the collapsed Ottoman empire was divided Muslim shitholes.  They attacked Israel, got their butts kicked, and have continued to whine and bitch since then.  

The Passport you showed is therefore a BRITISH PASSPORT, the same entity that controlled the region. Again, you have zero intellectual honesty and keep getting your butt kicked, but the shameless prostitute for IslamoNazis that you are, you keep coming for more.


----------



## aris2chat

They did not call themselves palestinians, others called them that because or the region they lived in.
The "P" came from other languages.
Palestinians till the '60's call themselves arab or syrian.  Under the Ottoman the region was divided into Sanjuks, Mutasarrifates and Vilayets.  

Ottoman Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was no palestine so they would not have used that name.  That is a western term, not arab.


----------



## montelatici

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, this passport is from 1925 and it says the person is Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All people from there had passports issued by the British officials which said that they were Palestinians, but the actual Arabs called themselves Arabs or Syrians, and if you called them a Palestinian it would be like you were insulting them because  you would be calling them a Jew.  Perhaps you can tell us who manned the Palestine booth at the World's Fair in New York City in 1940.  What was the Jerusalem Post originally called and who were the ones who established that newspaper in the first place?  As one retired State Department poster who wasn't Jewish once said...........
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
Click to expand...


Nice try, but that Zionist propaganda was debunked long ago on serious forums. 

But this is an interesting photo of some members of an Arab delegation in 1939 having tea it appears.  Notice how the delegates are from the Yemen, Egypt, Iraq *and guess where PALESTINE. Not Syrians or Arabs, but from Palestine.*







"The Arab centre party who are now in London, to attend the deliberations of the conference on Palestine now meeting daily at St. James&#8217;s Palace, gave a reception and tea party at the Hyde Park hotel on Feb. 8, 1939, to the other Arab delegations to the conference, including the delegations *from the Yemen, from Egypt, Iraq, and Palestine. *Mr. Malcolm Macdonald, the British minister for the colonies, was among the number of distinguished guests. Nuri el said Pasha, the Iraqi minister, left, with the Yemen delegates, Al Qadhi IBN Hussain Amri (with glasses), and Al Qadhi Muhammed Abdullah at the Hyde Park hotel."

http://www.anorak.co.uk/380574/news/israel-and-palestine-1920-1948-the-story-in-100-photos.html/


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, this passport is from 1925 and it says the person is Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All people from there had passports issued by the British officials which said that they were Palestinians, but the actual Arabs called themselves Arabs or Syrians, and if you called them a Palestinian it would be like you were insulting them because  you would be calling them a Jew.  Perhaps you can tell us who manned the Palestine booth at the World's Fair in New York City in 1940.  What was the Jerusalem Post originally called and who were the ones who established that newspaper in the first place?  As one retired State Department poster who wasn't Jewish once said...........
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try, but that Zionist propaganda was debunked long ago on serious forums.
> 
> But this is an interesting photo of some members of an Arab delegation in 1939 having tea it appears.  Notice how the delegates are from the Yemen, Egypt, Iraq *and guess where PALESTINE. Not Syrians or Arabs, but from Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Arab centre party who are now in London, to attend the deliberations of the conference on Palestine now meeting daily at St. Jamess Palace, gave a reception and tea party at the Hyde Park hotel on Feb. 8, 1939, to the other Arab delegations to the conference, including the delegations *from the Yemen, from Egypt, Iraq, and Palestine. *Mr. Malcolm Macdonald, the British minister for the colonies, was among the number of distinguished guests. Nuri el said Pasha, the Iraqi minister, left, with the Yemen delegates, Al Qadhi IBN Hussain Amri (with glasses), and Al Qadhi Muhammed Abdullah at the Hyde Park hotel."
> 
> Anorak | Israel And Palestine 1920-1948: The Story In 100 Photos
Click to expand...


It difficult to know who is posting now -- is it Haniya or that guy from the Boiler Room who said his wife came from Spain?  I don't think Haniya has a wife.  I think I will go with the British Officials who said that the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  I would imagine that those in the boiler room posting from the UK see this happening so much today when the poor Muslims and others are coming from their poor countries for jobs, just like we see poor people come here to the U.s..  Yeah, those at the State Department must have had a good laugh when Arafat was told to make up the "Palestinian" people.


----------



## Sally

aris2chat said:


> They did not call themselves palestinians, others called them that because or the region they lived in.
> The "P" came from other languages.
> Palestinians till the '60's call themselves arab or syrian.  Under the Ottoman the region was divided into Sanjuks, Mutasarrifates and Vilayets.
> 
> Ottoman Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> There was no palestine so they would not have used that name.  That is a western term, not arab.



You have to admit, Aris, that Haniya and that gang in the boiler room are giving it that old college try, but I don't think it is working.


----------



## montelatici

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> All people from there had passports issued by the British officials which said that they were Palestinians, but the actual Arabs called themselves Arabs or Syrians, and if you called them a Palestinian it would be like you were insulting them because  you would be calling them a Jew.  Perhaps you can tell us who manned the Palestine booth at the World's Fair in New York City in 1940.  What was the Jerusalem Post originally called and who were the ones who established that newspaper in the first place?  As one retired State Department poster who wasn't Jewish once said...........
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try, but that Zionist propaganda was debunked long ago on serious forums.
> 
> But this is an interesting photo of some members of an Arab delegation in 1939 having tea it appears.  Notice how the delegates are from the Yemen, Egypt, Iraq *and guess where PALESTINE. Not Syrians or Arabs, but from Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Arab centre party who are now in London, to attend the deliberations of the conference on Palestine now meeting daily at St. Jamess Palace, gave a reception and tea party at the Hyde Park hotel on Feb. 8, 1939, to the other Arab delegations to the conference, including the delegations *from the Yemen, from Egypt, Iraq, and Palestine. *Mr. Malcolm Macdonald, the British minister for the colonies, was among the number of distinguished guests. Nuri el said Pasha, the Iraqi minister, left, with the Yemen delegates, Al Qadhi IBN Hussain Amri (with glasses), and Al Qadhi Muhammed Abdullah at the Hyde Park hotel."
> 
> Anorak | Israel And Palestine 1920-1948: The Story In 100 Photos
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It difficult to know who is posting now -- is it Haniya or that guy from the Boiler Room who said his wife came from Spain?  I don't think Haniya has a wife.  I think I will go with the British Officials who said that the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  I would imagine that those in the boiler room posting from the UK see this happening so much today when the poor Muslims and others are coming from their poor countries for jobs, just like we see poor people come here to the U.s..  Yeah, those at the State Department must have had a good laugh when Arafat was told to make up the "Palestinian" people.
Click to expand...


Maybe you should read the source material and post links to it instead of making things up.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try, but that Zionist propaganda was debunked long ago on serious forums.
> 
> But this is an interesting photo of some members of an Arab delegation in 1939 having tea it appears.  Notice how the delegates are from the Yemen, Egypt, Iraq *and guess where PALESTINE. Not Syrians or Arabs, but from Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Arab centre party who are now in London, to attend the deliberations of the conference on Palestine now meeting daily at St. Jamess Palace, gave a reception and tea party at the Hyde Park hotel on Feb. 8, 1939, to the other Arab delegations to the conference, including the delegations *from the Yemen, from Egypt, Iraq, and Palestine. *Mr. Malcolm Macdonald, the British minister for the colonies, was among the number of distinguished guests. Nuri el said Pasha, the Iraqi minister, left, with the Yemen delegates, Al Qadhi IBN Hussain Amri (with glasses), and Al Qadhi Muhammed Abdullah at the Hyde Park hotel."
> 
> Anorak | Israel And Palestine 1920-1948: The Story In 100 Photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It difficult to know who is posting now -- is it Haniya or that guy from the Boiler Room who said his wife came from Spain?  I don't think Haniya has a wife.  I think I will go with the British Officials who said that the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  I would imagine that those in the boiler room posting from the UK see this happening so much today when the poor Muslims and others are coming from their poor countries for jobs, just like we see poor people come here to the U.s..  Yeah, those at the State Department must have had a good laugh when Arafat was told to make up the "Palestinian" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe you should read the source material and post links to it instead of making things up.
Click to expand...


My goodness, we all know that Arab propaganda is the best in the world.  Don't you think that people realize that you and the rest of those in the boiler room are here for one purpose -- that purpose is to demonize Israel all over the Internet.  God only know how many forums the boiler room gang is participating in while they try so hard to show Israel in a bad light.  One would think that the boiler room would have shut down for the night by now, but I guess they keep on going, going, going just like the Energizer Bunny.


----------



## montelatici

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> It difficult to know who is posting now -- is it Haniya or that guy from the Boiler Room who said his wife came from Spain?  I don't think Haniya has a wife.  I think I will go with the British Officials who said that the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  I would imagine that those in the boiler room posting from the UK see this happening so much today when the poor Muslims and others are coming from their poor countries for jobs, just like we see poor people come here to the U.s..  Yeah, those at the State Department must have had a good laugh when Arafat was told to make up the "Palestinian" people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should read the source material and post links to it instead of making things up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My goodness, we all know that Arab propaganda is the best in the world.  Don't you think that people realize that you and the rest of those in the boiler room are here for one purpose -- that purpose is to demonize Israel all over the Internet.  God only know how many forums the boiler room gang is participating in while they try so hard to show Israel in a bad light.  One would think that the boiler room would have shut down for the night by now, but I guess they keep on going, going, going just like the Energizer Bunny.
Click to expand...


You would be surprised, that most of that want an equitable peaceful solution are vets, some even combat vets who have never been in a boiler room except on a naval vessel.


----------



## Roudy

Exactly when did the invading Arabs start calling themselves "Palestinians"?

You can run, but you can't hide.


----------



## Roudy

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> All people from there had passports issued by the British officials which said that they were Palestinians, but the actual Arabs called themselves Arabs or Syrians, and if you called them a Palestinian it would be like you were insulting them because  you would be calling them a Jew.  Perhaps you can tell us who manned the Palestine booth at the World's Fair in New York City in 1940.  What was the Jerusalem Post originally called and who were the ones who established that newspaper in the first place?  As one retired State Department poster who wasn't Jewish once said...........
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try, but that Zionist propaganda was debunked long ago on serious forums.
> 
> But this is an interesting photo of some members of an Arab delegation in 1939 having tea it appears.  Notice how the delegates are from the Yemen, Egypt, Iraq *and guess where PALESTINE. Not Syrians or Arabs, but from Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Arab centre party who are now in London, to attend the deliberations of the conference on Palestine now meeting daily at St. James&#8217;s Palace, gave a reception and tea party at the Hyde Park hotel on Feb. 8, 1939, to the other Arab delegations to the conference, including the delegations *from the Yemen, from Egypt, Iraq, and Palestine. *Mr. Malcolm Macdonald, the British minister for the colonies, was among the number of distinguished guests. Nuri el said Pasha, the Iraqi minister, left, with the Yemen delegates, Al Qadhi IBN Hussain Amri (with glasses), and Al Qadhi Muhammed Abdullah at the Hyde Park hotel."
> 
> Anorak | Israel And Palestine 1920-1948: The Story In 100 Photos
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It difficult to know who is posting now -- is it Haniya or that guy from the Boiler Room who said his wife came from Spain?  I don't think Haniya has a wife.  I think I will go with the British Officials who said that the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  I would imagine that those in the boiler room posting from the UK see this happening so much today when the poor Muslims and others are coming from their poor countries for jobs, just like we see poor people come here to the U.s..  Yeah, those at the State Department must have had a good laugh when Arafat was told to make up the "Palestinian" people.
Click to expand...

He / she / it posted the INSIDE of a British Passport, and then called it Palestinian trying to deceive everybody. 

Like I said, there isn't a shred of honesty and decency in any of their claims.  All lies, historical revisionism, demonization, and false propaganda. 

No wonder the Palestinians aren't getting anywhere.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try, but that Zionist propaganda was debunked long ago on serious forums.
> 
> But this is an interesting photo of some members of an Arab delegation in 1939 having tea it appears.  Notice how the delegates are from the Yemen, Egypt, Iraq *and guess where PALESTINE. Not Syrians or Arabs, but from Palestine.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Arab centre party who are now in London, to attend the deliberations of the conference on Palestine now meeting daily at St. James&#8217;s Palace, gave a reception and tea party at the Hyde Park hotel on Feb. 8, 1939, to the other Arab delegations to the conference, including the delegations *from the Yemen, from Egypt, Iraq, and Palestine. *Mr. Malcolm Macdonald, the British minister for the colonies, was among the number of distinguished guests. Nuri el said Pasha, the Iraqi minister, left, with the Yemen delegates, Al Qadhi IBN Hussain Amri (with glasses), and Al Qadhi Muhammed Abdullah at the Hyde Park hotel."
> 
> Anorak | Israel And Palestine 1920-1948: The Story In 100 Photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It difficult to know who is posting now -- is it Haniya or that guy from the Boiler Room who said his wife came from Spain?  I don't think Haniya has a wife.  I think I will go with the British Officials who said that the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  I would imagine that those in the boiler room posting from the UK see this happening so much today when the poor Muslims and others are coming from their poor countries for jobs, just like we see poor people come here to the U.s..  Yeah, those at the State Department must have had a good laugh when Arafat was told to make up the "Palestinian" people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He / she / it posted the INSIDE of a British Passport, and then called it Palestinian trying to deceive everybody.
> 
> Like I said, there isn't a shred of honesty and decency in any of their claims.  All lies, historical revisionism, demonization, and false propaganda.
> 
> No wonder the Palestinians aren't getting anywhere.
Click to expand...


I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg


----------



## MJB12741

The indigenous Palestinians were JEWS, long before Islam even existed.  Today's Palestinians are overwhelmingly land thieves who have been squatting on Israel'sl and for generations without any deeds.  Unless & until Israel finds to some incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return, there will be no peace.


----------



## montelatici

i The indigenous Palestinians were JEWS, long before Islam even existed. 

But they converted to Christianity under the Byzantines and then converted to Islam. They are the same people.  They weren't however Germans, Poles, Russians etc. of the Jewish faith who came in the 19th and 20th century.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> i The indigenous Palestinians were JEWS, long before Islam even existed.
> 
> But they converted to Christianity under the Byzantines and then converted to Islam. They are the same people.  They weren't however Germans, Poles, Russians etc. of the Jewish faith who came in the 19th and 20th century.



Now just how do you know they converted to Christianity?  Were you there?  When the Jews did leave Israel, they went to many places, and some of those places were in Europe.  You seem to have a big problem with the European Jews going back to the land from where their ancestors lived.  However, you do not seem concerned at all with the Muslims now flooding the countries of Europe.  I wonder how long it will take before they will claim that they actually were indigenous to France or England, and they should run those countries.  I think people can figure out that  you are more concerned with demonizing Israel than the innocent people who have been killed and are still being killed in the other Middle East countries.  I guess to some people dead bodies are of no concern, no matter how many there are.  It is more important to try to prove that the Jews don't belong in Israel, and that land should belong to the Arabs just like the other lands in the Middle East even though the Arabs themselves invaded these other countries when they left the Saudi Peninsula.


----------



## aris2chat

>>50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".  The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1,2 million in 1948. 
In a 1974 study proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported <<

If half the population came looking for jobs then half the population was not "palestinian born"
68% of Israelis today are born in Israel.  They are no longer "foreign".  

After the war of 1949 the jewish population more than doubled not from europeans but jews from arab lands.  More jews were forced from the arab land than palestinians that left Israel during the war.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> It difficult to know who is posting now -- is it Haniya or that guy from the Boiler Room who said his wife came from Spain?  I don't think Haniya has a wife.  I think I will go with the British Officials who said that the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  I would imagine that those in the boiler room posting from the UK see this happening so much today when the poor Muslims and others are coming from their poor countries for jobs, just like we see poor people come here to the U.s..  Yeah, those at the State Department must have had a good laugh when Arafat was told to make up the "Palestinian" people.
> 
> 
> 
> He / she / it posted the INSIDE of a British Passport, and then called it Palestinian trying to deceive everybody.
> 
> Like I said, there isn't a shred of honesty and decency in any of their claims.  All lies, historical revisionism, demonization, and false propaganda.
> 
> No wonder the Palestinians aren't getting anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg
Click to expand...

Idiot, there was no COUNTRY called Palestine, and the British were't OCCUPYING, they were taking over a collapsed Ottoman Empire.  Plus the Arabs called themselves ARABS, SYRIANS, or EGYPTIANS, but never Palestinians. Since being a "Palestinian" meant you were a Jew, calling an Arab a Palestinian was an insult. 

More lies and deception. Like I said, it's all garbage and delusional Islamist propaganda.


----------



## Roudy

aris2chat said:


> >>50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".  The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1,2 million in 1948.
> In a 1974 study proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported <<
> 
> If half the population came looking for jobs then half the population was not "palestinian born"
> 68% of Israelis today are born in Israel.  They are no longer "foreign".
> 
> After the war of 1949 the jewish population more than doubled not from europeans but jews from arab lands.  More jews were forced from the arab land than palestinians that left Israel during the war.


Correct, in fact majority of Israelis today are Jews from Arab lands, or descendants of.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> i The indigenous Palestinians were JEWS, long before Islam even existed.
> 
> But they converted to Christianity under the Byzantines and then converted to Islam. They are the same people.  They weren't however Germans, Poles, Russians etc. of the Jewish faith who came in the 19th and 20th century.


Hee hee hee you is one funny Moooslem. 

"ALL the Jews converted to Christianity or Islam" eh? That's why we have about 15 million Jews worldwide.

 Ooops I'm sorry, they're "fake" Jews, the real ones are the Mooooslems.  Specifically of Palestinian subspecies. Ho ho ho.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al,_

Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?



montelatici said:


> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg


*(COMMENT)*

It is clearly a British Passport.

The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."

So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.  

The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.

India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MrMax

Palestinians are the worst fighters in the history of the world!


----------



## Phoenall

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




 I do believe that the Palestinians in trans Jordan were also given British passports with Jordanian as their citizenship right up until 1949 when they declared their independence


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> >>50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".  The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1,2 million in 1948.
> In a 1974 study proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported <<
> 
> If half the population came looking for jobs then half the population was not "palestinian born"
> 68% of Israelis today are born in Israel.  They are no longer "foreign".
> 
> After the war of 1949 the jewish population more than doubled not from europeans but jews from arab lands.  More jews were forced from the arab land than palestinians that left Israel during the war.


Can you be any more wrong?

Here are the totals during that period according to the UN...






If you do the math, a little over 5,000 Arabs migrated into Palestine, whereas over 98,000 Zionists migrated into that area during the same period.


Furthermore, Zionists also migrated in with them, racist, apartheid policies on farm labour...



> _ employment policies of the Zionist agencies
> 
> The Constitution of the Jewish Agency: Land Holding and Employment Clauses:
> (d) Land is to be acquired as Jewish property and ... the same shall be held as the inalienable property of the Jewish people. "
> 
> (e) The Agency shall *promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour *... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that *Jewish labour shall be employed *..."​Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only:
> The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding *only with Jewish labour*.
> 
> *Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour *shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."
> 
> "The lease also provides that *the holding shall never be held by any but a Jew* ..."​Keren ha-Yesod agreements: Employment of labour
> 'Article 7 - The settler hereby undertakes that ... if and whenever he may be obliged to hire help, *he will hire Jewish workmen only*.'​ agreement for the Emek colonies
> 'Article 11 - The settler undertakes ... *not to hire any outside labour except Jewish labourers.*'"​ _


... so there were no jobs being offered to Arabs.  

And if there were no jobs being offered to Arabs, there's no way they'd be migrating in to look for work.

Why do you constantly lie?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.


Doesn't matter what name they go by, it doesn't change the fact   they've been living there for the last 2000 years.


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> They did not call themselves palestinians, others called them that because or the region they lived in.
> The "P" came from other languages.
> Palestinians till the '60's call themselves arab or syrian.  Under the Ottoman the region was divided into Sanjuks, Mutasarrifates and Vilayets.
> 
> Ottoman Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> There was no palestine so they would not have used that name.  That is a western term, not arab.


So what!

They're still indigenous residents to that area and have been living there longer than Zionists have.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> >>50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from the neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews".  The Arab population of Palestine doubled during the mandatory period from 670 000 in 1922 to over 1,2 million in 1948.
> In a 1974 study proposed an average of 900 per year for the number of Muslims who were detected as illegal immigrants but not deported <<
> 
> If half the population came looking for jobs then half the population was not "palestinian born"
> 68% of Israelis today are born in Israel.  They are no longer "foreign".
> 
> After the war of 1949 the jewish population more than doubled not from europeans but jews from arab lands.  More jews were forced from the arab land than palestinians that left Israel during the war.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you be any more wrong?
> 
> Here are the totals during that period according to the UN...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you do the math, a little over 5,000 Arabs migrated into Palestine, whereas over 98,000 Zionists migrated into that area during the same period.
> 
> 
> Furthermore, Zionists also migrated in with them, racist, apartheid policies on farm labour...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ employment policies of the Zionist agencies
> 
> The Constitution of the Jewish Agency: Land Holding and Employment Clauses:
> (d) Land is to be acquired as Jewish property and ... the same shall be held as the inalienable property of the Jewish people. "
> 
> (e) The Agency shall *promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labour *... it shall be deemed to be a matter of principle that *Jewish labour shall be employed *..."​Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only:
> The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding *only with Jewish labour*.
> 
> *Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour *shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."
> 
> "The lease also provides that *the holding shall never be held by any but a Jew* ..."​Keren ha-Yesod agreements: Employment of labour
> 'Article 7 - The settler hereby undertakes that ... if and whenever he may be obliged to hire help, *he will hire Jewish workmen only*.'​ agreement for the Emek colonies
> 'Article 11 - The settler undertakes ... *not to hire any outside labour except Jewish labourers.*'"​ _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ... so there were no jobs being offered to Arabs.
> 
> And if there were no jobs being offered to Arabs, there's no way they'd be migrating in to look for work.
> 
> Why do you constantly lie?
Click to expand...





 If you read your own link it tells you that it is only the recorded numbers presented, not the unrecorded illegal immigrants. As was the case in the UK not so long ago the recorded numbers of migrants was around 125,000 for the year. Yet double that number were known to be illegal immigrants from students and visitors overstaying their visa's. 

 As for the arabs it did not matter if there were no jobs to be had they still came on the promise, a bit like the men of the USA in the 1930's when they walked the country looking for work even when they knew there was none. The arab labourers faced the same thing at the same time because it was a worldwide catastrophe.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> If you read your own link it tells you that it is only the recorded numbers presented, not the unrecorded illegal immigrants. As was the case in the UK not so long ago the recorded numbers of migrants was around 125,000 for the year. Yet double that number were known to be illegal immigrants from students and visitors overstaying their visa's.
> 
> As for the arabs it did not matter if there were no jobs to be had they still came on the promise, a bit like the men of the USA in the 1930's when they walked the country looking for work even when they knew there was none. The arab labourers faced the same thing at the same time because it was a worldwide catastrophe.


I see your logic.

There's probably some truth to that.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter what name they go by, it doesn't change the fact   they've been living there for the last 2000 years.
Click to expand...




 How could they have been living there for the last 2,000 years when they were only invented less than 1300 years previously. The Christians had been there for 2,000 years, with migrations to the holy land over time from Christian nations. The Jews had lived and worked the land for close on 4,500 years, and at one time under the Ottomans the Jews and Christians were the only people in Palestine as the land was a harsh taskmaster.
 Many of the arab muslims did not arrive until the late 1800's because the word had gone out that the Jews were turning desert and swamp into farm land


----------



## montelatici

_The Christians had been there for 2,000 years,_

The offspring of the Christians of Palestine of 2,000+ years ago are the Palestinians Muslim and Christian Palestinians of today.  Most of those Christians converted to Islam.  The Zionist propaganda about Muslims moving to Palestine was debunked decades ago.  Nice try though.  The only people settling in great numbers legally and illegally in Palestine were Europeans (Jews) as British reports of the mandatory show, for example the 1931 report:


"As recorded, *5,533 immigrants *(2,293 men, 2,323 women, and 917 children) were admitted, including *4,075 Jews *(1,604 men, 1,863 women, and 608 children). Among these immigrants were 1,580 persons who were in Palestine *illegally (Jews 939*, Christians 502, Moslems 137, Druzes 2) but received permission to remain permanently in the country. 2,701 of the immigrants came from Europe east of a line drawn from Danzig to Trieste, 1,146 from North Africa and Western Asia including `Iraq, Persia, and Afghanistan, 341 from Central Europe, 382 from the United States of America, and 546 (including 197 British Police) from the British Empire (apart from Aden, which is included in Western Asia). - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations (31 December 1931)


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Palestinian citizens were defined in two places.



> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order)


Contrary to popular propaganda, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to hold Palestine in trust on the behalf of the Palestinians. Palestine and the Palestinians existed before and after the mandate.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshiite. The Arabs started calling themselves "Palestinians" as of 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter what name they go by, it doesn't change the fact   they've been living there for the last 2000 years.
Click to expand...

Sure it does, their whole identity and premise is false, which make they have no basis for their assertions, and you're so stupid even the Palestinians aren't claiming they've been there for 2000 years.  Ha ha ha


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> _The Christians had been there for 2,000 years,_
> 
> The offspring of the Christians of Palestine of 2,000+ years ago are the Palestinians Muslim and Christian Palestinians of today.  Most of those Christians converted to Islam.  The Zionist propaganda about Muslims moving to Palestine was debunked decades ago.  Nice try though.  The only people settling in great numbers legally and illegally in Palestine were Europeans (Jews) as British reports of the mandatory show, for example the 1931 report:
> 
> 
> "As recorded, *5,533 immigrants *(2,293 men, 2,323 women, and 917 children) were admitted, including *4,075 Jews *(1,604 men, 1,863 women, and 608 children). Among these immigrants were 1,580 persons who were in Palestine *illegally (Jews 939*, Christians 502, Moslems 137, Druzes 2) but received permission to remain permanently in the country. 2,701 of the immigrants came from Europe east of a line drawn from Danzig to Trieste, 1,146 from North Africa and Western Asia including `Iraq, Persia, and Afghanistan, 341 from Central Europe, 382 from the United States of America, and 546 (including 197 British Police) from the British Empire (apart from Aden, which is included in Western Asia). - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations (31 December 1931)


How does your total bullshit prove that "the Christians converted to Islam"?  Why don't you show us the British reports and numbers showing the hoards of Arab invaders?  You are a phony baloney.  Like I said there isn't an ounce of truth in anything you say.

"At the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Arabs in the Holy Land. Historically, a "Palestinian" people never existed. The English name "Palestinian", to describe the local Arab population, was invented AFTER the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. These Arabs do not even have a native name to describe themselves in their own Arabic language. The Arabs who now claim to be natives of the Holy Land have migrated to Palestine and invaded the land after 1917, from neighboring Arab countries. 

-The British Hope-Simpson Commission recommended, in 1930, "Prevention of illicit immigration" to stop the illegal Arab immigration from neighboring Arab countries.[15]
-The British Governor of the Sinai (1922-36) reported in the Palestine Royal Commission Report: "This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria."
-The governor of the Syrian district of Hauran, Tewfik Bey El Hurani, admitted in 1934 that in a single period of only a few months over 30,000 Syrians from Hauran had moved to Palestine.
-British Prime Minister *Winston Churchill* noted the Arab influx. Churchill, a veteran of the early years of the British mandate in the Holy Land, noted in 1939 that "far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."






The Arabs who now claim to be natives of the Holy Land have migrated to Palestine and invaded the land after 1917, from neighboring Arab countries, predominantly from areas now known as Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. None of these countries existed as nations prior to 1913. They were nothing but a disorganized collection of tribes, constantly terrorizing each other, trying to seize land from their neighbors. Unfortunately, those Arab invaders, imported into the Holy Land their age-old "culture" of terrorizing neighbors to seize land. Many of them were social outcasts and criminals who could not find jobs in their own countries so they searched for their luck elsewhere. Some of them were accepted by the British regime as a source of cheap labor and were allowed to settle on unoccupied Jewish land. Even Yassir Arafat, the leader of the PLO, is not a native of the Holy Land. He called himself a "Palestinian refugee" but spoke Arabic with an Egyptian dialect. He was born in 1929 in Cairo, Egypt. He served in the Egyptian army, studied in the University of Cairo, and lived in Cairo until 1956. He then moved to Saudi-Arabia and founded the Al-Fatah terror organization, the precursor to the PLO, in Kuwait in 1958, together with his Saudi-Arabian friends. How exactly does that constitute a "Palestinian refugee"? Arafat must have been a good student of Muhammad, the founder of the Muslim religion, who said in the Quran: "War is deception".[16]

In their propaganda, the Arabs who now call themselves "Palestinians" consistently demand that Israel and the world recognize their "pre-1948" rights. That's about 60 years ago. Mysteriously, they are never willing to add another 60 years to their "historical" claims on the Holy Land. They know very well that doing so will send them back to where they came from - Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. Years ago, during negotiations with the, so-called, Palestinians, a Israeli negotiator proposed to revise a mention of their claim of "pre-1948" rights and replace it with "pre-1917". The "Palestinians" vehemently opposed. Now we know why.


----------



## RoccoR

_et al,_

Again, you are mistaken.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian citizens were defined in two places.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to hold Palestine in trust on the behalf of the Palestinians. Palestine and the Palestinians existed before and after the mandate.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Palestine was the short title for the Mandate of Palestine, an area to be determined solely by the Allied Powers.

The Treaty of Lausanne never mentions Palestine.

The people of that region were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and later the Republic of Turkey.

Citizenship and Nationality were determined by the Palestine Order in Council, and happens to use the same legal language as the Treaty simply because the very same Allied Powers wrote both documents.

The authorities that determined citizenship and nationalities were the same people that administered the various mandates.  Nothing is in conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MJB12741

If there is to be a lasting peace Israel must first end the occupation.  Problem is that no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Gosh I wonder if Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State.





Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Christians had been there for 2,000 years,_
> 
> The offspring of the Christians of Palestine of 2,000+ years ago are the Palestinians Muslim and Christian Palestinians of today.  Most of those Christians converted to Islam.  The Zionist propaganda about Muslims moving to Palestine was debunked decades ago.  Nice try though.  The only people settling in great numbers legally and illegally in Palestine were Europeans (Jews) as British reports of the mandatory show, for example the 1931 report:
> 
> 
> "As recorded, *5,533 immigrants *(2,293 men, 2,323 women, and 917 children) were admitted, including *4,075 Jews *(1,604 men, 1,863 women, and 608 children). Among these immigrants were 1,580 persons who were in Palestine *illegally (Jews 939*, Christians 502, Moslems 137, Druzes 2) but received permission to remain permanently in the country. 2,701 of the immigrants came from Europe east of a line drawn from Danzig to Trieste, 1,146 from North Africa and Western Asia including `Iraq, Persia, and Afghanistan, 341 from Central Europe, 382 from the United States of America, and 546 (including 197 British Police) from the British Empire (apart from Aden, which is included in Western Asia). - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations (31 December 1931)
> 
> 
> 
> How does your total bullshit prove that "the Christians converted to Islam"?  Why don't you show us the British reports and numbers showing the hoards of Arab invaders?  You are a phony baloney.  Like I said there isn't an ounce of truth in anything you say.
> 
> "At the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Arabs in the Holy Land. Historically, a "Palestinian" people never existed. The English name "Palestinian", to describe the local Arab population, was invented AFTER the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. These Arabs do not even have a native name to describe themselves in their own Arabic language. The Arabs who now claim to be natives of the Holy Land have migrated to Palestine and invaded the land after 1917, from neighboring Arab countries.
> 
> -The British Hope-Simpson Commission recommended, in 1930, "Prevention of illicit immigration" to stop the illegal Arab immigration from neighboring Arab countries.[15]
> -The British Governor of the Sinai (1922-36) reported in the Palestine Royal Commission Report: "This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria."
> -The governor of the Syrian district of Hauran, Tewfik Bey El Hurani, admitted in 1934 that in a single period of only a few months over 30,000 Syrians from Hauran had moved to Palestine.
> -British Prime Minister *Winston Churchill* noted the Arab influx. Churchill, a veteran of the early years of the British mandate in the Holy Land, noted in 1939 that "far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs who now claim to be natives of the Holy Land have migrated to Palestine and invaded the land after 1917, from neighboring Arab countries, predominantly from areas now known as Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. None of these countries existed as nations prior to 1913. They were nothing but a disorganized collection of tribes, constantly terrorizing each other, trying to seize land from their neighbors. Unfortunately, those Arab invaders, imported into the Holy Land their age-old "culture" of terrorizing neighbors to seize land. Many of them were social outcasts and criminals who could not find jobs in their own countries so they searched for their luck elsewhere. Some of them were accepted by the British regime as a source of cheap labor and were allowed to settle on unoccupied Jewish land. Even Yassir Arafat, the leader of the PLO, is not a native of the Holy Land. He called himself a "Palestinian refugee" but spoke Arabic with an Egyptian dialect. He was born in 1929 in Cairo, Egypt. He served in the Egyptian army, studied in the University of Cairo, and lived in Cairo until 1956. He then moved to Saudi-Arabia and founded the Al-Fatah terror organization, the precursor to the PLO, in Kuwait in 1958, together with his Saudi-Arabian friends. How exactly does that constitute a "Palestinian refugee"? Arafat must have been a good student of Muhammad, the founder of the Muslim religion, who said in the Quran: "War is deception".[16]
> 
> In their propaganda, the Arabs who now call themselves "Palestinians" consistently demand that Israel and the world recognize their "pre-1948" rights. That's about 60 years ago. Mysteriously, they are never willing to add another 60 years to their "historical" claims on the Holy Land. They know very well that doing so will send them back to where they came from - Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. Years ago, during negotiations with the, so-called, Palestinians, a Israeli negotiator proposed to revise a mention of their claim of "pre-1948" rights and replace it with "pre-1917". The "Palestinians" vehemently opposed. Now we know why.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _et al,_
> 
> Again, you are mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian citizens were defined in two places.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to hold Palestine in trust on the behalf of the Palestinians. Palestine and the Palestinians existed before and after the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestine was the short title for the Mandate of Palestine, an area to be determined solely by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne never mentions Palestine.
> 
> The people of that region were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and later the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> Citizenship and Nationality were determined by the Palestine Order in Council, and happens to use the same legal language as the Treaty simply because the very same Allied Powers wrote both documents.
> 
> The authorities that determined citizenship and nationalities were the same people that administered the various mandates.  Nothing is in conflict.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The documents are quite clear. The Ottoman citizens of the defined area of Palestine became Palestinians and citizens of Palestine after 1924/1925 by treaty and law.


----------



## Roudy

RoccoR said:


> _et al,_
> 
> Again, you are mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian citizens were defined in two places.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to hold Palestine in trust on the behalf of the Palestinians. Palestine and the Palestinians existed before and after the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestine was the short title for the Mandate of Palestine, an area to be determined solely by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne never mentions Palestine.
> 
> The people of that region were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and later the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> Citizenship and Nationality were determined by the Palestine Order in Council, and happens to use the same legal language as the Treaty simply because the very same Allied Powers wrote both documents.
> 
> The authorities that determined citizenship and nationalities were the same people that administered the various mandates.  Nothing is in conflict.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Maybe Palestinians should stop the charade and call themselves ex Turkish subjects?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _et al,_
> 
> Again, you are mistaken.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian citizens were defined in two places.
> 
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to hold Palestine in trust on the behalf of the Palestinians. Palestine and the Palestinians existed before and after the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestine was the short title for the Mandate of Palestine, an area to be determined solely by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne never mentions Palestine.
> 
> The people of that region were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and later the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> Citizenship and Nationality were determined by the Palestine Order in Council, and happens to use the same legal language as the Treaty simply because the very same Allied Powers wrote both documents.
> 
> The authorities that determined citizenship and nationalities were the same people that administered the various mandates.  Nothing is in conflict.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The documents are quite clear. The Ottoman citizens of the defined area of Palestine became Palestinians and citizens of Palestine after 1924/1925 by treaty and law.
Click to expand...

Not really.  The Turkish subjects became subjects of the British, in the British mandate of Palestine.  Sometime thereafter, the invading Arabs hijacked the name for Jews of the region, "Palestinian".  

Palestine = Arab hoax.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _et al,_
> 
> Again, you are mistaken.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestine was the short title for the Mandate of Palestine, an area to be determined solely by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne never mentions Palestine.
> 
> The people of that region were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and later the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> Citizenship and Nationality were determined by the Palestine Order in Council, and happens to use the same legal language as the Treaty simply because the very same Allied Powers wrote both documents.
> 
> The authorities that determined citizenship and nationalities were the same people that administered the various mandates.  Nothing is in conflict.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The documents are quite clear. The Ottoman citizens of the defined area of Palestine became Palestinians and citizens of Palestine after 1924/1925 by treaty and law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really.  The Turkish subjects became subjects of the British, in the British mandate of Palestine.  Sometime thereafter, the invading Arabs hijacked the name for Jews of the region, "Palestinian".
> 
> Palestine = Arab hoax.
Click to expand...


Could you document that opinion?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The documents are quite clear. The Ottoman citizens of the defined area of Palestine became Palestinians and citizens of Palestine after 1924/1925 by treaty and law.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.  The Turkish subjects became subjects of the British, in the British mandate of Palestine.  Sometime thereafter, the invading Arabs hijacked the name for Jews of the region, "Palestinian".
> 
> Palestine = Arab hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Could you document that opinion?
Click to expand...

What is there to document?  The region was Turkish Ottoman territory for 600 years, and after the collapse it fell under British control.  The British and French under the UN / League of Nations mandate divided most of the Middle East into many Muslim states, and allocated the region known as Palestine for the Jews.  Jordan was first included in this Jesish state, but after Arab objections they decided to create an "Arab Palestine" state east of the Jordan River which is now Jordan.  

But apparently even that wasn't enough for the Arabs, they attacked the newly formed Jewish state and got their buts kicked.  All the Arab aggressions against the state of Israel were never to create this mythical Palestine, but simply to destroy the Jewish state.  Even Arabs laughed at the concept of an Arab Palestinian.  

This is all factual undeniable history.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian citizens were defined in two places.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to hold Palestine in trust on the behalf of the Palestinians. Palestine and the Palestinians existed before and after the mandate.
Click to expand...


Wrong again Tinmore. The Mandate=Palestine and Palestine=Mandate.

Look at the birthplace of people who were born in the region prior to 1948. It says 'Mandatory Palestine' or 'British Mandate of Palestine'. It does not say Palestine , and if it does, it's a small mistake.

How can you call the documented truth 'propaganda'

You know Rocco is right Tinmore, but admitting so would severely damage your agenda, so I don't really blame you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.  The Turkish subjects became subjects of the British, in the British mandate of Palestine.  Sometime thereafter, the invading Arabs hijacked the name for Jews of the region, "Palestinian".
> 
> Palestine = Arab hoax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you document that opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is there to document?  The region was Turkish Ottoman territory for 600 years, and after the collapse it fell under British control.  The British and French under the UN / League of Nations mandate divided most of the Middle East into many Muslim states, and allocated the region known as Palestine for the Jews.  Jordan was first included in this Jesish state, but after Arab objections they decided to create an "Arab Palestine" state east of the Jordan River which is now Jordan.
> 
> But apparently even that wasn't enough for the Arabs, they attacked the newly formed Jewish state and got their buts kicked.  All the Arab aggressions against the state of Israel were never to create this mythical Palestine, but simply to destroy the Jewish state.  Even Arabs laughed at the concept of an Arab Palestinian.
> 
> This is all factual undeniable history.
Click to expand...


You are confused. Britain occupied Ottoman territory in 1917. Palestine was created when the Ottoman empire ended ending the British occupation.

Britain was then temporarily assigned to Palestine as the Mandate. When the mandate left Palestine, Palestine was still there.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore; _et al,_

Read the Passport.



P F Tinmore said:


> The documents are quite clear. The Ottoman citizens of the defined area of Palestine became Palestinians and citizens of Palestine after 1924/1925 by treaty and law.


*(COMMENT)*

The applicable law is the Palestine Citizenship Law; AKA: Palestine Citizenship Order 1925.  That law was written by the Allied Powers; the same as the Treaty was written by the Allied Powers.  The language comes from the 1922 version of the POiC.



			
				The Palestine Order in Council said:
			
		

> NOW THEREFORE His Majesty, by virtue and in exercise of the powers in this behalf by the Foreign Jurisdiction Act, 1890, or otherwise in His Majesty vested, is pleased by and with the advice of his Privy Council to order, and it is hereby ordered as follows:--
> 
> Title.
> 1. This Order may be cited as the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order, 1922.
> Definition.
> 2. In this Order, unless the contrary intention appears,
> "Secretary of State" means one of His Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State.
> "Register of voters" or "register" means the register prepared in accordance with this Order of the persons entitled to vote for the election of a member of the Legislative Council.
> "Member" means a member of the Legislative Council.
> "District" means one of the administrative divisions into which Palestine may be divided by the High Commissioner.
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.



The habitually resident of Mandate of Palestine were generally regarded internationally as both Palestinian citizens and British protected persons.

The regulations under the Immigration Ordinance, 1925, set up a statutory procedure for the introduction of Jewish immigrant labour into Palestine. The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council, 1925, facilitates the acquisition of Palestinian nationality by persons settling in the country, including those who opted for Palestinian citizenship under the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922. 

The text of the Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council and of a Proclamation by the High Commissioner for Palestine amending Article 2.   Article 5 of the Order facilitates the acquisition of citizenship by Jews who opted therefor under Article 2 of the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922. 

*(MORE IMPORTANTLY)*

What is the point to which you are driving?  *What agenda are you attempting to substantiate using this Order in Council?*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> Read the Passport.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The documents are quite clear. The Ottoman citizens of the defined area of Palestine became Palestinians and citizens of Palestine after 1924/1925 by treaty and law.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The applicable law is the Palestine Citizenship Law; AKA: Palestine Citizenship Order 1925.  That law was written by the Allied Powers; the same as the Treaty was written by the Allied Powers.  The language comes from the 1922 version of the POiC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine Order in Council said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NOW THEREFORE His Majesty, by virtue and in exercise of the powers in this behalf by the Foreign Jurisdiction Act, 1890, or otherwise in His Majesty vested, is pleased by and with the advice of his Privy Council to order, and it is hereby ordered as follows:--
> 
> Title.
> 1. This Order may be cited as the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order, 1922.
> Definition.
> 2. In this Order, unless the contrary intention appears,
> "Secretary of State" means one of His Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State.
> "Register of voters" or "register" means the register prepared in accordance with this Order of the persons entitled to vote for the election of a member of the Legislative Council.
> "Member" means a member of the Legislative Council.
> "District" means one of the administrative divisions into which Palestine may be divided by the High Commissioner.
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The habitually resident of Mandate of Palestine were generally regarded internationally as both Palestinian citizens and British protected persons.
> 
> The regulations under the Immigration Ordinance, 1925, set up a statutory procedure for the introduction of Jewish immigrant labour into Palestine. The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council, 1925, facilitates the acquisition of Palestinian nationality by persons settling in the country, including those who opted for Palestinian citizenship under the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922.
> 
> The text of the Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council and of a Proclamation by the High Commissioner for Palestine amending Article 2.   Article 5 of the Order facilitates the acquisition of citizenship by Jews who opted therefor under Article 2 of the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922.
> 
> *(MORE IMPORTANTLY)*
> 
> What is the point to which you are driving?  *What agenda are you attempting to substantiate using this Order in Council?*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


How does this contradict my post?



> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​



The mandate was never part of Britain.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore; _et al,_

I agree, the Mandate of Palestine is not a territory or colony of the UK.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> Read the Passport.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The documents are quite clear. The Ottoman citizens of the defined area of Palestine became Palestinians and citizens of Palestine after 1924/1925 by treaty and law.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The applicable law is the Palestine Citizenship Law; AKA: Palestine Citizenship Order 1925.  That law was written by the Allied Powers; the same as the Treaty was written by the Allied Powers.  The language comes from the 1922 version of the POiC.
> 
> 
> 
> The habitually resident of Mandate of Palestine were generally regarded internationally as both Palestinian citizens and British protected persons.
> 
> The regulations under the Immigration Ordinance, 1925, set up a statutory procedure for the introduction of Jewish immigrant labour into Palestine. The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council, 1925, facilitates the acquisition of Palestinian nationality by persons settling in the country, including those who opted for Palestinian citizenship under the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922.
> 
> The text of the Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council and of a Proclamation by the High Commissioner for Palestine amending Article 2.   Article 5 of the Order facilitates the acquisition of citizenship by Jews who opted therefor under Article 2 of the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922.
> 
> *(MORE IMPORTANTLY)*
> 
> What is the point to which you are driving?  *What agenda are you attempting to substantiate using this Order in Council?*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does this contradict my post?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mandate was never part of Britain.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Mandate was a trusteeship of the League of Nations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> I agree, the Mandate of Palestine is not a territory or colony of the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> Read the Passport.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The applicable law is the Palestine Citizenship Law; AKA: Palestine Citizenship Order 1925.  That law was written by the Allied Powers; the same as the Treaty was written by the Allied Powers.  The language comes from the 1922 version of the POiC.
> 
> 
> 
> The habitually resident of Mandate of Palestine were generally regarded internationally as both Palestinian citizens and British protected persons.
> 
> The regulations under the Immigration Ordinance, 1925, set up a statutory procedure for the introduction of Jewish immigrant labour into Palestine. The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council, 1925, facilitates the acquisition of Palestinian nationality by persons settling in the country, including those who opted for Palestinian citizenship under the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922.
> 
> The text of the Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council and of a Proclamation by the High Commissioner for Palestine amending Article 2.   Article 5 of the Order facilitates the acquisition of citizenship by Jews who opted therefor under Article 2 of the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922.
> 
> *(MORE IMPORTANTLY)*
> 
> What is the point to which you are driving?  *What agenda are you attempting to substantiate using this Order in Council?*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does this contradict my post?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mandate was never part of Britain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mandate was a trusteeship of the League of Nations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Correct, Palestine was held in trust by the mandate. The mandate was not Palestine.


----------



## MrMax

Why are the palestinians such cowards and don't fight like real men?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> I agree, the Mandate of Palestine is not a territory or colony of the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does this contradict my post?
> 
> 
> 
> The mandate was never part of Britain.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mandate was a trusteeship of the League of Nations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct, Palestine was held in trust by the mandate. The mandate was not Palestine.
Click to expand...


Palestine the what?


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore; _et al,_

You just refuse to listen.



toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> I agree, the Mandate of Palestine is not a territory or colony of the UK.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Mandate was a trusteeship of the League of Nations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, Palestine was held in trust by the mandate. The mandate was not Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.

The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​


			
				PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
			
		

> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922



When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.

You are trying to make this harder than it is.

Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.

And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you document that opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> What is there to document?  The region was Turkish Ottoman territory for 600 years, and after the collapse it fell under British control.  The British and French under the UN / League of Nations mandate divided most of the Middle East into many Muslim states, and allocated the region known as Palestine for the Jews.  Jordan was first included in this Jesish state, but after Arab objections they decided to create an "Arab Palestine" state east of the Jordan River which is now Jordan.
> 
> But apparently even that wasn't enough for the Arabs, they attacked the newly formed Jewish state and got their buts kicked.  All the Arab aggressions against the state of Israel were never to create this mythical Palestine, but simply to destroy the Jewish state.  Even Arabs laughed at the concept of an Arab Palestinian.
> 
> This is all factual undeniable history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are confused. Britain occupied Ottoman territory in 1917. Palestine was created when the Ottoman empire ended ending the British occupation.
> 
> Britain was then temporarily assigned to Palestine as the Mandate. When the mandate left Palestine, Palestine was still there.
Click to expand...

You are just repeating what I said but excluding the truth.  The Ottoman Empire ended after the end of the first world war (since the Turks sided with the Germans and were defeated), and Britain and France as part of the victors, took over the middle east and divided it.  There was never a country called Palestine or Palestinians during the 600 years of the Ottoman Empire.  The British called the REGION Palestine, which was initially designated as the Jewish homeland, because, the entirety of the Middle East was given to the Muslim Arabs by the British and the French.  The Arab invaders then hijacked the name "Palestinian" which applied only to the Jews, and made it their own in the 1960's.  

True story.


----------



## Roudy

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, Palestine was held in trust by the mandate. The mandate was not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The obvious agenda, he's a liar propagandist for Palestinians and spokesperson for Hamas.


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, Palestine was held in trust by the mandate. The mandate was not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Why do you make this harder than it is.  You are making things up.  Per the Palestine Order in Council which established Palestinian citizenship for the former Ottoman Subjects of Palestine it  is crystal clear:

*10 August 1922
PALESTINE.

_______
The Palestine Order in Council.*

*AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
The 10th day of August, 1922.
PRESENT,
THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.
LORD CHAMBERLAIN.
LORD STAMFORDHAM.
MR. SECRETARY SHORTT.
MR. MCCURDY.*

"For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:-- 

(a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order. 

(b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner". - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you make this harder than it is.  You are making things up.  Per the Palestine Order in Council which established Palestinian citizenship for the former Ottoman Subjects of Palestine it  is crystal clear:
> 
> *10 August 1922
> PALESTINE.
> 
> _______
> The Palestine Order in Council.*
> 
> *AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
> The 10th day of August, 1922.
> PRESENT,
> THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.
> LORD CHAMBERLAIN.
> LORD STAMFORDHAM.
> MR. SECRETARY SHORTT.
> MR. MCCURDY.*
> 
> "For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner". - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)
Click to expand...

So since "Palestine" was never a country, then "Palestinian Citizenship" simply meant you became a British subject in the territory of Palestine. 

Thanks for informing us that "Palestinian Citizenship" was a British invention in the early 1900's.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you make this harder than it is.  You are making things up.  Per the Palestine Order in Council which established Palestinian citizenship for the former Ottoman Subjects of Palestine it  is crystal clear:
> 
> *10 August 1922
> PALESTINE.
> 
> _______
> The Palestine Order in Council.*
> 
> *AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
> The 10th day of August, 1922.
> PRESENT,
> THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.
> LORD CHAMBERLAIN.
> LORD STAMFORDHAM.
> MR. SECRETARY SHORTT.
> MR. MCCURDY.*
> 
> "For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner". - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So since "Palestine" was never a country, then "Palestinian Citizenship" simply meant you became a British subject in the territory of Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for informing us that "Palestinian Citizenship" was a British invention in the early 1900's.
Click to expand...


Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?


----------



## Roudy

If you hold a British Passport that means you are a British subject.  Do you even KNOW what a PASSPORT means?  It is evidence of CITIZENSHIP, moron.  

pass·port
noun
1. an official document issued by a government, certifying the holder's identity and citizenship and entitling them to travel under its protection to and from foreign countries.


----------



## montelatici

What I do is that you don't appear to be able to read.


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do believe that the Palestinians in trans Jordan were also given British passports with Jordanian as their citizenship right up until 1949 when they declared their independence
Click to expand...


Trans-Jordan used the same British passports until Jordan became independent.
Palestine is a european name given to the region.  It is not a name that was used till the mandate, even then most arabs called themselves syria, arab, the area they emigrated from, their tribe or the village their family came from.

Arab maps from the 7th C through the Ottoman do not use the name palestine.  Only a few byzantine maps use the roman term palaestina, as in syria palaestina or by palaestine I through IV, or the greek version philistia.  Other wise it is a series of small districts named for the major town.
European maps made after the arab conquest used the term of palestine, from the roman name, for an unmarked region in the southern province of syria.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you make this harder than it is.  You are making things up.  Per the Palestine Order in Council which established Palestinian citizenship for the former Ottoman Subjects of Palestine it  is crystal clear:
> 
> *10 August 1922
> PALESTINE.
> 
> _______
> The Palestine Order in Council.*
> 
> *AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
> The 10th day of August, 1922.
> PRESENT,
> THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.
> LORD CHAMBERLAIN.
> LORD STAMFORDHAM.
> MR. SECRETARY SHORTT.
> MR. MCCURDY.*
> 
> "For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner". - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> So since "Palestine" was never a country, then "Palestinian Citizenship" simply meant you became a British subject in the territory of Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for informing us that "Palestinian Citizenship" was a British invention in the early 1900's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
Click to expand...


Citizen of what country??


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow!  What in the world is the matter with you?
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so Indian passports that also has British Passport on cover mean that Indians were not Indians when it said Indian on the citizenship page? Look closely again you ignoramus.
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MwRj-Ax_h-I/USoWWdiWT7I/AAAAAAAAAGk/gYSQH7Oz3K8/s1600/13.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is clearly a British Passport.
> 
> The citizenship is Palestinian - based on the "Palestinian Citizenship Order."
> 
> So, at one point, they were --- most probably --- Arabs, that were citizens of the Ottoman Empire and then, after the fall, the Republic of Turkey.
> 
> The Mandatory issues Passports for the citizens of the Mandate.  This was authorized by the Palestine Order in Council.  The "Palestinian" citizenship means that the person was a citizen of the Mandate of Palestine.
> 
> India, is a separate issue.  India was a Commonwealth of the Crown, and formal part of the British Empire.  You are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian citizens were defined in two places.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Contrary to popular propaganda, the mandate was not Palestine. The mandate was temporarily assigned to Palestine to hold Palestine in trust on the behalf of the Palestinians. Palestine and the Palestinians existed before and after the mandate.
Click to expand...


Not before them mandate, after the mandate had begun.
Mandate was formally confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on 24 July 1922
Treaty of Lausanne, July 24, 1923 does not mention palestine.


----------



## aris2chat

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, Palestine was held in trust by the mandate. The mandate was not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Mandate was divided, first part was an arab/palestinian transjordan, the remainder was then split against into arab and jew which the UN offered the partition of Israel and a palestine.  Arabs rejected the plan but with the end of the mandate the state of Israel was declared.  Arabs picked war instead of a palestine.  They created the refugees of both many of the arabs in the mandate, and the majority of the jews from arab lands.  The jews were absorbed into Israel.  The palestinians were not absorbed by the states that took them in, by the state that attacked Israel or the states that refused the creation of a palestine at the UN.
Then after refusing the palestinians a state, they force the UN to be responsible for the care of the refugees.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mandate was divided, first part was an arab/palestinian transjordan, the remainder was then split against into arab and jew which the UN offered the partition of Israel and a palestine.  Arabs rejected the plan but with the end of the mandate the state of Israel was declared.  Arabs picked war instead of a palestine.  They created the refugees of both many of the arabs in the mandate, and the majority of the jews from arab lands.  The jews were absorbed into Israel.  The palestinians were not absorbed by the states that took them in, by the state that attacked Israel or the states that refused the creation of a palestine at the UN.
> Then after refusing the palestinians a state, they force the UN to be responsible for the care of the refugees.
Click to expand...


Goebbels would have been proud of you.  The UN offered to take most of the land away from the people that lived there to give it to European settlers.  What a deal.  You people are


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate was divided, first part was an arab/palestinian transjordan, the remainder was then split against into arab and jew which the UN offered the partition of Israel and a palestine.  Arabs rejected the plan but with the end of the mandate the state of Israel was declared.  Arabs picked war instead of a palestine.  They created the refugees of both many of the arabs in the mandate, and the majority of the jews from arab lands.  The jews were absorbed into Israel.  The palestinians were not absorbed by the states that took them in, by the state that attacked Israel or the states that refused the creation of a palestine at the UN.
> Then after refusing the palestinians a state, they force the UN to be responsible for the care of the refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Goebbels would have been proud of you.  The UN offered to take most of the land away from the people that lived there to give it to European settlers.  What a deal.  You people are
Click to expand...


Actually he would have been very, very proud of you.  Say where is the guy who was posting under this screen name the other week or so who said his wife comes from Spain?  I don't think anyone believes that Haniya has a wife, nor do I think any of the Iranian gang here in the U.S. has a wife from Spain -- Tehran or Qom maybe, but not Spain.  It seems like people must be like playing musical chairs here to be posting all day long trying to demonize Israel.  Say I wonder how many innocent people their brethren have murdered this week, or don't they care?


----------



## MJB12741

So true that what the Arab countries did to make their Palestinians making them refugees is hard to forgive.  But then, it was the Palestinians themselves who in their hatred for Israel allowed this to happen to them.  It's called Palestinian mentality.





aris2chat said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mandate was divided, first part was an arab/palestinian transjordan, the remainder was then split against into arab and jew which the UN offered the partition of Israel and a palestine.  Arabs rejected the plan but with the end of the mandate the state of Israel was declared.  Arabs picked war instead of a palestine.  They created the refugees of both many of the arabs in the mandate, and the majority of the jews from arab lands.  The jews were absorbed into Israel.  The palestinians were not absorbed by the states that took them in, by the state that attacked Israel or the states that refused the creation of a palestine at the UN.
> Then after refusing the palestinians a state, they force the UN to be responsible for the care of the refugees.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the what?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> 
> PART I.  PRELIMINARY. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you make this harder than it is.  You are making things up.  Per the Palestine Order in Council which established Palestinian citizenship for the former Ottoman Subjects of Palestine it  is crystal clear:
> 
> *10 August 1922
> PALESTINE.
> 
> _______
> The Palestine Order in Council.*
> 
> *AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
> The 10th day of August, 1922.
> PRESENT,
> THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.
> LORD CHAMBERLAIN.
> LORD STAMFORDHAM.
> MR. SECRETARY SHORTT.
> MR. MCCURDY.*
> 
> "For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner". - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)
Click to expand...





 Then explain why they were issued with British passports. You yourself have posted pictures of British Palestinian passports issued to citizens of trans Jordan. If you read your link carefully you will see that it applies mostly to those people living in trans Jordan and Syria who were upset and angry at being lumped in with the mongrel muslims in what was to be Israel west of the Jordan river.

 History is not your strong point is it, along with Maths and English. How are you on the sciences ?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you make this harder than it is.  You are making things up.  Per the Palestine Order in Council which established Palestinian citizenship for the former Ottoman Subjects of Palestine it  is crystal clear:
> 
> *10 August 1922
> PALESTINE.
> 
> _______
> The Palestine Order in Council.*
> 
> *AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
> The 10th day of August, 1922.
> PRESENT,
> THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.
> LORD CHAMBERLAIN.
> LORD STAMFORDHAM.
> MR. SECRETARY SHORTT.
> MR. MCCURDY.*
> 
> "For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner". - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> So since "Palestine" was never a country, then "Palestinian Citizenship" simply meant you became a British subject in the territory of Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for informing us that "Palestinian Citizenship" was a British invention in the early 1900's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
Click to expand...





 Want to retract before I destroy your whole argument again, suffice it to say why was the order proclaimed by the King of Britain and his government if it was not because they were actually British subjects. Even their passports state BRITAIN so can you explain this

 See here for details


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you make this harder than it is.  You are making things up.  Per the Palestine Order in Council which established Palestinian citizenship for the former Ottoman Subjects of Palestine it  is crystal clear:
> 
> *10 August 1922
> PALESTINE.
> 
> _______
> The Palestine Order in Council.*
> 
> *AT THE COURT AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE,
> The 10th day of August, 1922.
> PRESENT,
> THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY.
> LORD CHAMBERLAIN.
> LORD STAMFORDHAM.
> MR. SECRETARY SHORTT.
> MR. MCCURDY.*
> 
> "For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner". - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order (10 August 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> So since "Palestine" was never a country, then "Palestinian Citizenship" simply meant you became a British subject in the territory of Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for informing us that "Palestinian Citizenship" was a British invention in the early 1900's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
Click to expand...




At the same time it does not state that Palestine was or is a nation with the authority to issue passports of their own. Which is why up until 1949 the passports for all the British mandate of Palestine were issued by Britain


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> What I do is that you don't appear to be able to read.




 It seems that it is you with that problem as until 1949 when Israel and Jordan both declared independence of the mandate the passports for both nations were BRITISH PALESTINE ones


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So since "Palestine" was never a country, then "Palestinian Citizenship" simply meant you became a British subject in the territory of Palestine.
> 
> Thanks for informing us that "Palestinian Citizenship" was a British invention in the early 1900's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Want to retract before I destroy your whole argument again, suffice it to say why was the order proclaimed by the King of Britain and his government if it was not because they were actually British subjects. Even their passports state BRITAIN so can you explain this.
Click to expand...


First off, the order of 1922 was when Britain was the occupation. Britain occupied Palestine from 1917 to 1924 when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The Treaty of Lausanne, separated Palestine from the dissolved empire.

By that time Palestine's international borders, and the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians were already defined. Britain's position changed from the occupation of the territory to the mandate for Palestine.

The Palestinians were not British.



> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​





> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​



Those Palestinian citizens were legally the native population of Palestine. It does not matter where they were from or how long they had been there. Those things are irrelevant to the Palestinian's legal status.

Britain issued the passports to give protection to the Palestinians while traveling outside of the country.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to retract before I destroy your whole argument again, suffice it to say why was the order proclaimed by the King of Britain and his government if it was not because they were actually British subjects. Even their passports state BRITAIN so can you explain this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, the order of 1922 was when Britain was the occupation. Britain occupied Palestine from 1917 to 1924 when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The Treaty of Lausanne, separated Palestine from the dissolved empire.
> 
> By that time Palestine's international borders, and the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians were already defined. Britain's position changed from the occupation of the territory to the mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians were not British.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those Palestinian citizens were legally the native population of Palestine. It does not matter where they were from or how long they had been there. Those things are irrelevant to the Palestinian's legal status.
> 
> Britain issued the passports to give protection to the Palestinians while traveling outside of the country.
Click to expand...

Tinmore, every time in the future you bring up those feeble arguments I will counter with the claim that Britain considers the American Revolution, illegal, null and void and that we are still British subjects. Get the point?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to retract before I destroy your whole argument again, suffice it to say why was the order proclaimed by the King of Britain and his government if it was not because they were actually British subjects. Even their passports state BRITAIN so can you explain this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, the order of 1922 was when Britain was the occupation. Britain occupied Palestine from 1917 to 1924 when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The Treaty of Lausanne, separated Palestine from the dissolved empire.
> 
> By that time Palestine's international borders, and the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians were already defined. Britain's position changed from the occupation of the territory to the mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians were not British.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those Palestinian citizens were legally the native population of Palestine. It does not matter where they were from or how long they had been there. Those things are irrelevant to the Palestinian's legal status.
> 
> Britain issued the passports to give protection to the Palestinians while traveling outside of the country.
Click to expand...





 Would that be this Palestine that the Treaty of Lausanne delineated, that was set aside as the reconstituted NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS






 Note the extent of this Palestine which is 70% bigger than the Palestine you keep rambling on about.


Try reading your link again, specially this part  " The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them"    In plain English it means that even though the mandatory power was Britain the inhabitants did not become British citizens, but British Palestinian citizens.

 By the way Britain occupied Palestine right up until midnight on May 13 1948


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore; _et al,_
> 
> You just refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you use the word Palestine, you are saying -- in shortened form -- The Mandate of Palestine.  It is both a document and a place.
> 
> The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine = Palestine​
> 
> 
> When you say you are a Citizen of Palestine, prior to 15 May 1948, you were actually saying is that you are a Citizen of the Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
> 
> You are trying to make this harder than it is.
> 
> Remember, Palestine _(Territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied)_ was a "legal entity" but not a sovereign state.   It would not become a sovereign state until November 1988; and even the Palestinian Authority questions that --- when it raises the issue of dismantlement.
> 
> And I ask again, what is the agenda you are trying to support in this line of discussion?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate was divided, first part was an arab/palestinian transjordan, the remainder was then split against into arab and jew which the UN offered the partition of Israel and a palestine.  Arabs rejected the plan but with the end of the mandate the state of Israel was declared.  Arabs picked war instead of a palestine.  They created the refugees of both many of the arabs in the mandate, and the majority of the jews from arab lands.  The jews were absorbed into Israel.  The palestinians were not absorbed by the states that took them in, by the state that attacked Israel or the states that refused the creation of a palestine at the UN.
> Then after refusing the palestinians a state, they force the UN to be responsible for the care of the refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Goebbels would have been proud of you.  The UN offered to take most of the land away from the people that lived there to give it to European settlers.  What a deal.  You people are
Click to expand...


Well now they are asking for the 67' borders which is LESS territory than the original partition plan.
The war that the 5 Arab armies started against Israel is looking like a bigger fuck up every day. Whoops!


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to retract before I destroy your whole argument again, suffice it to say why was the order proclaimed by the King of Britain and his government if it was not because they were actually British subjects. Even their passports state BRITAIN so can you explain this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, the order of 1922 was when Britain was the occupation. Britain occupied Palestine from 1917 to 1924 when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The Treaty of Lausanne, separated Palestine from the dissolved empire.
> 
> By that time Palestine's international borders, and the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians were already defined. Britain's position changed from the occupation of the territory to the mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians were not British.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those Palestinian citizens were legally the native population of Palestine. It does not matter where they were from or how long they had been there. Those things are irrelevant to the Palestinian's legal status.
> 
> Britain issued the passports to give protection to the Palestinians while traveling outside of the country.
Click to expand...


The Treaty of Lausanne had NOTHING TO DO WITH PALESTINE.
Palestine is mentioned a total of ZERO times in the treaty.

You can't just make up history as you go along Tinmore.


----------



## MJB12741

Very interesting.  So then are you saying even land thieving squatters without any deeds to  Israel's ancient land are considered as "legally the native population of Palestine"??? 





P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about British Subject, it states Palestinian Citizen. Why do you make things up when your  long held beliefs are proven false?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to retract before I destroy your whole argument again, suffice it to say why was the order proclaimed by the King of Britain and his government if it was not because they were actually British subjects. Even their passports state BRITAIN so can you explain this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, the order of 1922 was when Britain was the occupation. Britain occupied Palestine from 1917 to 1924 when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The Treaty of Lausanne, separated Palestine from the dissolved empire.
> 
> By that time Palestine's international borders, and the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians were already defined. Britain's position changed from the occupation of the territory to the mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians were not British.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those Palestinian citizens were legally the native population of Palestine. It does not matter where they were from or how long they had been there. Those things are irrelevant to the Palestinian's legal status.
> 
> Britain issued the passports to give protection to the Palestinians while traveling outside of the country.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

MJB12741 said:


> Very interesting.  So then are you saying even land thieving squatters without any deeds to  Israel's ancient land are considered as "legally the native population of Palestine"???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Want to retract before I destroy your whole argument again, suffice it to say why was the order proclaimed by the King of Britain and his government if it was not because they were actually British subjects. Even their passports state BRITAIN so can you explain this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off, the order of 1922 was when Britain was the occupation. Britain occupied Palestine from 1917 to 1924 when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The Treaty of Lausanne, separated Palestine from the dissolved empire.
> 
> By that time Palestine's international borders, and the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians were already defined. Britain's position changed from the occupation of the territory to the mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians were not British.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those Palestinian citizens were legally the native population of Palestine. It does not matter where they were from or how long they had been there. Those things are irrelevant to the Palestinian's legal status.
> 
> Britain issued the passports to give protection to the Palestinians while traveling outside of the country.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

In a nutshell, according PF "Yassir" Tinmore, YES.


----------



## MJB12741

Amazing what we can learn here.  Just wait you Zionists until I go tell all my neighbors.




Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting.  So then are you saying even land thieving squatters without any deeds to  Israel's ancient land are considered as "legally the native population of Palestine"???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, the order of 1922 was when Britain was the occupation. Britain occupied Palestine from 1917 to 1924 when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The Treaty of Lausanne, separated Palestine from the dissolved empire.
> 
> By that time Palestine's international borders, and the nationality and citizenship of the Palestinians were already defined. Britain's position changed from the occupation of the territory to the mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The Palestinians were not British.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those Palestinian citizens were legally the native population of Palestine. It does not matter where they were from or how long they had been there. Those things are irrelevant to the Palestinian's legal status.
> 
> Britain issued the passports to give protection to the Palestinians while traveling outside of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In a nutshell, according PF "Yassir" Tinmore, YES.
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

Ottomans were defeated in 1917.  Britain might have been in control but the mandate had no yet begun.
Till the mandate was created formally in 1923 there was no palestine.  The term was not part of the Ottoman names of the sanjuks.  It is a european term for a general region of the holy land and neighboring territory.  A term given by the romans as an insult to the jews for their rebellion of roman suzerainty.  Some bibles translated to local tongue used the roman term for the general area of holy land.

Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria', called Palaistinê
Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition in Meteorology, writing "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink
Statius, as well as Roman-era Greek writers such as Plutarch, Roman-era Judean writers such as Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.
Byzantine the region (Syria Palestine, Samaria, and the Galilee) was named Palaestina I, II, III.  West coast of the Arabian Peninsula as Palaestina Salutaris.
~wiki


----------



## MJB12741

Yes but Israel's enemies refer to some "Palestinian land" in Israel's land.  What I just don't understand is when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" they are referrring to?






aris2chat said:


> Ottomans were defeated in 1917.  Britain might have been in control but the mandate had no yet begun.
> Till the mandate was created formally in 1923 there was no palestine.  The term was not part of the Ottoman names of the sanjuks.  It is a european term for a general region of the holy land and neighboring territory.  A term given by the romans as an insult to the jews for their rebellion of roman suzerainty.  Some bibles translated to local tongue used the roman term for the general area of holy land.
> 
> Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria', called Palaistinê
> Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition in Meteorology, writing "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink
> Statius, as well as Roman-era Greek writers such as Plutarch, Roman-era Judean writers such as Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.
> Byzantine the region (Syria Palestine, Samaria, and the Galilee) was named Palaestina I, II, III.  West coast of the Arabian Peninsula as Palaestina Salutaris.
> ~wiki


----------



## MrMax

Palestinians = Jordanian squatters.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> Palestinians = Jordanian squatters.


Zionists = assholes


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Sure it does, their whole identity and premise is false, which make they have no basis for their assertions, and you're so stupid even the Palestinians aren't claiming they've been there for 2000 years.  Ha ha ha


Nothing you say changes the fact that you cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians = Jordanian squatters.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists = assholes
Click to expand...


So you're a supporter of sharia lovers? Can't wait to buy an 8 year old like Mo did? Always wipe your ass with an uneven number of rocks like Mo did? Like to slobber over dirty carpets then send your children to get blown up for Allah? Something else as well?


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> So you're a supporter of sharia lovers? Can't wait to buy an 8 year old like Mo did? Always wipe your ass with an uneven number of rocks like Mo did? Like to slobber over dirty carpets then send your children to get blown up for Allah? Something else as well?


I just said Zionists are assholes.


That has nothing to do with anything else.





_Gratuitous zone 2 compliance:
Palestinian's are not assholes._


----------



## Roudy

*WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS?
WHAT AND WHERE IS PALESTINE?[*

Rockwell Lazareth

 There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the "West Bank" and Gaza  as a result of losing the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). 

Before the 1967 war, the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO)  primary goal was to destroy Israel. Post-1967, their goal became two-tracked: Either (1) destroy Israel outright (the same pre-1967 goal) or (2) the creation of an Arab-Palestinian state to be used as a launching pad from which to destroy Israel. Different strategies - same ultimate goal...  a state not along side Israel, but IN PLACE OF Israel. It's really that simple!

Israel became a nation in 1312B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and its First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain.  These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel  and also a Second Temple upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the  Arabs is preposterous!  

Then in 70 A.D. (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population.  Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuilt a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land. 

Over the next 2,000 years various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own. The region was successively ruled by the Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, Crusaders, Mamelukes and finally the Ottoman Turks who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I (1914-18).  It must be noted that in 636 A.D., when the Arabs marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there... and certainly not a "Palestinian" nation.  They were simply "Arabs" who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called "Palestine!"  And remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who "usurped" (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636A.D. who overran and stole it from the Jews! 

In Conclusion: No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the  Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs and their Islam were even born!  The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. And if you want to talk religion, fine.  G-d GAVE the Land of Israel to the Jewish People. And G-d does nothing by accident! 

"PALESTINE?"

The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, &#8216;the Philistines."  So, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then on be called "Philistia" [further bastardized into "Palaistina"] to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine." One more thing. Very often one hears the revisionists and propagandists finding ancient historical links between the "Philistines" and the Arab "Palestinians."  There is no truth to this claim! The Philistines were one of a number of Sea Peoples who reached the eastern Mediterranean region approximately 1250-1100B.C.   They were actually an amalgamation of various ethnic groups, primarily of Aegean and south-east European origin [Greece, Crete and Western Turkey] ... but surely not of Arabian origin!  These Philistines were not Arab... and neither was Goliath! The Arabs of "Palestine" are just that... Arabs!  And these Arabs of "Palestine" have about as much historical roots to the ancient Philistines as Yasser Arafat has to the Eskimos!

If anything, the name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."  

THE RETURN TO ZION

The Land of Israel was never devoid of Jews, although at times, only in the tens of thousands. This was because the land was virtually uninhabitable when the Jews once again began their God-given right AND duty to return en masse to the land of their forefathers (the Zionist Movement) in the 1880s.  The silly rhetoric about a massive Arab presence being overrun by "invading Jews" is quickly dispelled by Mark Twain, who visited the area in 1867.  From his book, "The Innocents Abroad"...  "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." 

1880's

Palestine's early Jewish Zionists were idealistic pioneers who arrived in pre-state Israel with every intention of living in peace alongside their Arab neighbors and upgrading the quality of life for all of the land's inhabitants.  The vast majority of Arabs came to the area after these early Zionists pioneers began to drain the malaria-infested swamps and rebuild the land!  In doing so, these Jews created the economic opportunities and medical availabilities which attracted Arabs from both surrounding territories and far-away lands! In fact, over 90% of the Arabs migrated there within the last one hundred years.  Most of the so-called "Palestinians" are in fact interlopers and squatters from Syria - and others places - mostly in the 1920s and 1930s who simply took possession of pieces of land in Israel. So much for their unfounded claims that they have been there since "time immemorial!" 

  Yet while the returning Jews were highly motivated to restore the land, the Arabs seethed with envy and hatred  because they lacked both the leadership to inspire or motivate them for they were in fact historical strangers to this land!  Unlike the Jews, these Arabs who immigrated there had no ancient attachments or historical memories to this homeland ... this ancient Land of the Jews!

In Conclusion: There Was No "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs created one somewhat after 1948 but especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War!  Archeological sites to this very day continue to yield artifacts with Hebrew writing, not some fictitious "Palestinian" or Arabic text! The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any other of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated and came into "Palestine!"  Had the Chinese come to the area, they too would be called "Palestinians!"  And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this HISTORICAL HOGWASH about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned!  

GREED, PRIDE, ENVY!

     The Arabs of today controls 24 nations... 99½ percent of the ENTIRE  Middle East land mass while Israel occupies only a 1/2  of 1 percent speck on this same map. But that's still too much land for the Arabs to spare. They want it all. As they shout out, "We will fight to our last drop of blood for for every last grain of sand!"  And that is ultimately what all the fighting  is about today.  And no matter how many land concessions the Israelis might make for "peace," it will never be enough!  Any peace treaty between Israel and the Arab world are ultimately meaningless.  Even the Israeli-Egyptian and Israeli-Jordanian peace treaties are holding on by a single thread and if you were to read their government-controlled newspapers you'd think they were still at war with Israel! 

PEACE  IS  IMPOSSIBLE!
-The Death of Compromise- 
There's No More "Middle" in the Middle East

From the moment the Jewish People re-established sovereignty in their ancient homeland, they sought genuine peace with all of their neighbors. Unfortunately, their neighbors did not wish to share a peaceful existence with the Jews. They, like Bin Ladin, felt that they had a religious obligation to destroy the non-Muslim/Arab Jewish State... and all non-Moslem governments in the world. The Arab campaign against Israel is rooted not in any negotiable grievances but in a basic opposition to the very existence of Jewish sovereignty in THEIR Middle East!  The ultimate intent of the Arabs is to separate out Judaism from Israel... and then to separate Israel from the face of the Earth.

The Question of Jerusalem
And the Temple Mount

For over 3,300 years of history, Jerusalem (founded by King David) has been a capitol city for only the Jewish People. Jews have always lived in Jerusalem, except when they were massacred or driven out. There has, however, been a nearly unbroken Jewish presence in Jerusalem for the past 1,600 years. And since the early 1800's, the population of Jerusalem has been predominantly Jewish. Even when the Jordanians captured and occupied Jerusalem from 1948-67, they (the Jordanians) never sought to change it to their capital (replacing Amman) nor make it the capital of any "Arab Palestinian" people.  In fact, Arab leaders from other Arab countries hardly ever bothered to visit Jerusalem!  Only to the Jews has Jerusalem ever held special meaning! 

Another myth deals with the issue of Jerusalem and its Temple Mount. The myth is that Jerusalem is really an Arab city and that it is a central focus of Islam. The truth is that the Arabs expressed very limited interest in the Temple Mount before 1967. Besides, Mecca and Medina (both in Saudi Arabia) are Islam's holiest cities!

One more thing about Jerusalem in general and its Temple Mount in particular. Jerusalem appears in the Jewish Bible 669 times and Zion (which usually means Jerusalem, sometimes the Land of Israel) 154 times, or 823 times in all. The Christian Bible mentions Jerusalem 154 times and Zion 7 times.  Islam's Holy(?) Koran mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem and with good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammad ever visited Jerusalem!  And if he did visit Jerusalem, it could not have been until 6 years after his death. Therefore, the notion that Mohammed ascended to Heaven from a rock in Jerusalem (today's Dome of the Rock) is even more ridiculous!  

From 1948 to 1967, when East Jerusalem and the Temple Mount were under Jordanian rule, they were ignored by the Arab world. No  Arab leader ever paid a visit, not even to pray at the al-Aqsa Mosque or the Dome of the Rock (both located on the JEWISH Temple Mount).  Even the Arabs of  "Palestine" placed so low a priority on Jerusalem that the PLO's founding charter, the Palestinian National Covenant of 1964, made no reference whatsoever to it. Only when the Jews recaptured it after the 1967 "Six Day War" (initiated by the Arabs) did the Arab world SUDDENLY grow very passionate about Jerusalem!

In truth, the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa mosques are just but two of hundreds of thousands of Muslim mosques around the world. Except for these two minor mosques, Jerusalem itself has no major Islamic significance. In fact, far more Christian shrines are in Jerusalem than Muslim ones! 

When a Jew prays from anywhere in the world, he faces the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.  When a Moslem prays, even while IN Jerusalem, he faces Mecca (in Saudi Arabia). So in many cases, even when a Moslem is in Jerusalem, his "hind quarters" are facing these two Jerusalem mosques!  What does THIS tell you!  And when Islamic suicide bombers try to take apart Jerusalem piece by piece, what does THAT tell you!


----------



## P F Tinmore

All those who stayed and put down roots (Those who lived there at the demise of the Ottoman Empire.) are the natives of Palestine.


----------



## MJB12741

Zionists piss me off too.  What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence so they can stay & even give in to a Palestinian demand for their own Gaza?  Face it you Zionists, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does. History has proven king Hussein was right.  When will those Zionists in Israel ever learn how to establish a lasting peace with Palestinians?




Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're a supporter of sharia lovers? Can't wait to buy an 8 year old like Mo did? Always wipe your ass with an uneven number of rocks like Mo did? Like to slobber over dirty carpets then send your children to get blown up for Allah? Something else as well?
> 
> 
> 
> I just said Zionists are assholes.
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gratuitous zone 2 compliance:
> Palestinian's are not assholes._
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> All those who stayed and put down roots (Those who lived there at the demise of the Ottoman Empire.) are the natives of Palestine.


Of course they are. Does anyone here say they aren't?


----------



## Phoenall

billo_really said:


> mrmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> palestinians = jordanian squatters.
> 
> 
> 
> zionists = assholes
Click to expand...





 link ?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it does, their whole identity and premise is false, which make they have no basis for their assertions, and you're so stupid even the Palestinians aren't claiming they've been there for 2000 years.  Ha ha ha
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing you say changes the fact that you cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
Click to expand...




 So why don't you tell that the illegal arab immigrants that descended on the area to wipe out the Jews ?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're a supporter of sharia lovers? Can't wait to buy an 8 year old like Mo did? Always wipe your ass with an uneven number of rocks like Mo did? Like to slobber over dirty carpets then send your children to get blown up for Allah? Something else as well?
> 
> 
> 
> I just said Zionists are assholes.
> 
> 
> That has nothing to do with anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gratuitous zone 2 compliance:
> Palestinian's are not assholes._
Click to expand...





 That is just your opinion and is not based on fact, unless you want to tell all the muslims that their prophet is an asshole


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> All those who stayed and put down roots (Those who lived there at the demise of the Ottoman Empire.) are the natives of Palestine.




 Which does not alter the RECONSTRUCTION OF THE NATINAL HOME FOR THE JEWS does it. And as I showed yesterday the Jews begged the arab muslims to live in peace as full citizens of Israel with all the rights and privileges that entails.

 It was the declaration of war that brought a halt to the aspirations of Palestinians to ever living in peace and prosperity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All those who stayed and put down roots (Those who lived there at the demise of the Ottoman Empire.) are the natives of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which does not alter the RECONSTRUCTION OF THE NATINAL HOME FOR THE JEWS does it. And as I showed yesterday the Jews begged the arab muslims to live in peace as full citizens of Israel with all the rights and privileges that entails.
> 
> It was the declaration of war that brought a halt to the aspirations of Palestinians to ever living in peace and prosperity.
Click to expand...


You need to read up on your documents. I think you misunderstand the meaning of "national home."


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All those who stayed and put down roots (Those who lived there at the demise of the Ottoman Empire.) are the natives of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which does not alter the RECONSTRUCTION OF THE NATINAL HOME FOR THE JEWS does it. And as I showed yesterday the Jews begged the arab muslims to live in peace as full citizens of Israel with all the rights and privileges that entails.
> 
> It was the declaration of war that brought a halt to the aspirations of Palestinians to ever living in peace and prosperity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read up on your documents. I think you misunderstand the meaning of "national home."
Click to expand...

Is this like one of those things where it depends what the meaning of "is" is?


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it does, their whole identity and premise is false, which make they have no basis for their assertions, and you're so stupid even the Palestinians aren't claiming they've been there for 2000 years.  Ha ha ha
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing you say changes the fact that you cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why don't you tell that the illegal arab immigrants that descended on the area to wipe out the Jews ?
Click to expand...


Because you are spouting bullshit propaganda.


----------



## 50_RiaL

According to Almut Nebel's 2001 study, "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East" '[T]he Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements. The early lineages are part of the common chromosome pool shared with Jews. According to our working model, the more-recent migrations were mostly from the Arabian Peninsula, as is seen in the Arab-specific Eu 10 chromosomes that include the modal haplotypes observed in Palestinians and Bedouin.' The Palestinian Arabs' early linage that are part of the "common chromosome pool shared with Jews" no doubt stems from the Arab invasion of the Holy Land in the 7th Century C.E. where they mixed with Jews and Christians who converted to Islam.

A more recent study by Doron Behar et al, titled "The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people" (2010) came to a similar conclusion: "Bedouins, Jordanians, Palestinians and Saudi Arabians are located [cluster genetically] in close proximity to each other, which is consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula."


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing you say changes the fact that you cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why don't you tell that the illegal arab immigrants that descended on the area to wipe out the Jews ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you are spouting bullshit propaganda.
Click to expand...


So much of the bullshit propaganda is coming from you, Haniya, and your fellow travelers.  Innocent people are dying right now all over the Muslim world in the name of a religion, and all you and your gang can think about is demonizing Israel all over the Internet night and day.  Israel might not be a perfect country, but then again no country in the world is.  However, you don't see Israelis all over the place murdering people whose religious beliefs are different from the majority of Israelis.  Right now the Christian population is being decimated in the Middle East, but yet it is more important to demonize Israel.  I doubt if there was as great an effort to demonize a group if the group governing Israel were the Hindus or Buddhists.  Then again, as long as the Middle East isn't entirely ruled by the Muslims, then any group would be at risk to be demonized.


----------



## montelatici

Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.



Don't forget the Palestinian Jews. Many of them lost their homes in Israel's war.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.


Nobody holds you here against your will, Abu.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.



Just because you can't debate with posters here and keep up with them, does 't mean this section is propaganda.
And frankly, you're not making a good case for yourself when you run around all day posting the usual 'Zionist propaganda ! Zionist propaganda!'

Go to stormfront and talk about 'Zionist propaganda' every second post you make and I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the Palestinian Jews. Many of them lost their homes in Israel's war.
Click to expand...


Thats ok, all Jews were allowed to return to Israel


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, Phoenall, _et al,_

I think our friend "P F Tinmore" is correct.



P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All those who stayed and put down roots (Those who lived there at the demise of the Ottoman Empire.) are the natives of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which does not alter the RECONSTRUCTION OF THE NATINAL HOME FOR THE JEWS does it. And as I showed yesterday the Jews begged the arab muslims to live in peace as full citizens of Israel with all the rights and privileges that entails.
> 
> It was the declaration of war that brought a halt to the aspirations of Palestinians to ever living in peace and prosperity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to read up on your documents. I think you misunderstand the meaning of "national home."
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

"Jewish National Home" does not equate to "Jewish State."



			
				EXCERPT:  The Churchill White Paper 3 June 1922 said:
			
		

> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." *HMG regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view.* Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab Delegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language or culture in Palestine.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ AKA The British White Paper of 1922



The Allied Powers had the intent to extend protections to a culture that had historically been persecuted throughout Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.  It was an effort to protect and preserve a culture in distress.  But the phrase "Jewish National Home" was not to be interpreted as a "Jewish State."  While establishment of a Jewish State is one way in which to achieve a National Home, it was not the only way; or even the preferred way.

The post-WWII concept of a "Jewish State" was a product of the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).  But it had been shuffled around for more than two decades prior; it was not an original thought of the UNSCOP.  It turned out to be a majority recommendation later on in its presentation to the General Assembly.  But even then, it was clear that it was a Partition.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

Rocco, is there an official definition of 'Jewish National Home' ?


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.


Your version of justice is Arabs being able to kill all the Jews and Christians on the land, then call it the "Islamic shithole Khalifate of Palestine" that will be ruled by barbaric Shariah law.  

Justice my ass.


----------



## toastman

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.
> 
> 
> 
> Your version of justice is Arabs being able to kill all the Jews and Christians on the land, then call it the "Islamic shithole Khalifate of Palestine" that will be ruled by barbaric Shariah law.
> 
> Justice my ass.
Click to expand...


Oh common Roudy! We all know the ME needs another Muslim Arab state!
Just think about bow much of a better place the world will be!


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Your version of justice is Arabs being able to kill all the Jews and Christians on the land, then call it the "Islamic shithole Khalifate of Palestine" that will be ruled by barbaric Shariah law.
> 
> Justice my ass.


There will never be any justice in your ass, you just don't eat enough bran.

I find it interesting you're constantly telling others what "their" version is and coincidentally, it always whind's up being "your" version as well.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> link ?


No link.  Just my personal opinion.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> So why don't you tell that the illegal arab immigrants that descended on the area to wipe out the Jews ?


If you're referring to the arab army's, they didn't come in to _"wipe out the Jews"._

They came in to ensure the _"rule of law", _after the British vacated the area.


They wouldn't of even had to do that, if asshole, migrating Zionists, didn't treat the indigenous, Arab residents, like garbage.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your version of justice is Arabs being able to kill all the Jews and Christians on the land, then call it the "Islamic shithole Khalifate of Palestine" that will be ruled by barbaric Shariah law.
> 
> Justice my ass.
> 
> 
> 
> There will never be any justice in your ass, you just don't eat enough bran.
> 
> I find it interesting you're constantly telling others what "their" version is and coincidentally, it always whind's up being "your" version as well.
Click to expand...

Here's the justice in your ass, use vaseline:

*Hamas Charter
*
'The Islamic  Resistance  Movement  is  a  distinguished  Palestinian
movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and  whose  way  of  life  is
Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah  over  every  inch  of 
Palestine.' (Article 6)

On the Destruction of Israel:

'Israel will exist and  will  continue  to  exist  until  Islam  will
obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)

The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area

'The  land  of  Palestine  is  an  Islamic  Waqf  [Holy   Possession]
consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No  one
can renounce it or any part, or  abandon  it  or  any  part  of  it.'
(Article 11)

'Palestine is  an  Islamic  land...  Since  this  is  the  case,  the
Liberation of Palestine  is  an  individual  duty  for  every  Moslem
wherever he may be.' (Article 13)

The Call to Jihad:

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem  land,  Jihad  becomes  the
individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,
it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)

Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

'[Peace]  initiatives,   and   so-called   peaceful   solutions   and
international conferences are in contradiction to the  principles  of
the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
a means to appoint the  infidels  as  arbitrators  in  the  lands  of
Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem  except  by
Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a
waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> That is just your opinion and is not based on fact,


 Not if you read the posts from all the Israeli kiss-asses, that populate this forum.




Phoenall said:


> unless you want to tell all the muslims that their prophet is an asshole


Why would I do that?

I'm a white, Irish Catholic; so I'm not really up to date on their prophet.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is just your opinion and is not based on fact,
> 
> 
> 
> Not if you read the posts from all the Israeli kiss-asses, that populate this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> unless you want to tell all the muslims that their prophet is an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would I do that?
> 
> I'm a white, Irish Catholic; so I'm not really up to date on their prophet.
Click to expand...

IslamoTerrorist asskissers come in all shapes and forms.  But the common thread among most of them is ignorance and stupidity of which you have plenty of both.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why don't you tell that the illegal arab immigrants that descended on the area to wipe out the Jews ?
> 
> 
> 
> If you're referring to the arab army's, they didn't come in to _"wipe out the Jews"._
> 
> They came in to ensure the _"rule of law", _after the British vacated the area.
> 
> 
> They wouldn't of even had to do that, if asshole, migrating Zionists, didn't treat the indigenous, Arab residents, like garbage.
Click to expand...


You can sugarcoat it any way you want, but the Arab armies had no business invading the region and starting a war. 
The hostilities were between Israel and the Palestinians, not between the Arab states.
And if they came in to ensure law and order, why did some of the Leaders literally threaten to destroy Israel if they became a state, prior to the war???

Using the logic in your last statement, I can say: Israeli forces wouldn't of had to expel those Palestinians during their military advances , if those 5 Arab states hadn't attacked.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> You can sugarcoat it any way you want, but the Arab armies had no business invading the region and starting a war.
> The hostilities were between Israel and the Palestinians, not between the Arab states.
> And if they came in to ensure law and order, why did some of the Leaders literally threaten to destroy Israel if they became a state, prior to the war???
> 
> Using the logic in your last statement, I can say: Israeli forces wouldn't of had to expel those Palestinians during their military advances , if those 5 Arab states hadn't attacked.


This is what got their attention and why they eventually attacked...


> _ ...*the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives* ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination* ...
> - Ahad Ha'am (Zionist humanist) _


It's as if an East LA street gang moved to a suburb in the OC and immediately had run-ins with the  non-Chicano residents.  Then the OC Sherriff's announce they're leaving the area and will not be back to police it.  What do you think that LA gang is going to do?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> IslamoTerrorist asskissers come in all shapes and forms.  But the common thread among most of them is ignorance and stupidity of which you have plenty of both.


I will say you're an expert on ignorance and stupidity.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Here's the justice in your ass, use vaseline:
> 
> *Hamas Charter
> *
> 'The Islamic  Resistance  Movement  is  a  distinguished  Palestinian
> movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and  whose  way  of  life  is
> Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah  over  every  inch  of
> Palestine.' (Article 6)
> 
> On the Destruction of Israel:
> 
> 'Israel will exist and  will  continue  to  exist  until  Islam  will
> obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)
> 
> The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area
> 
> 'The  land  of  Palestine  is  an  Islamic  Waqf  [Holy   Possession]
> consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No  one
> can renounce it or any part, or  abandon  it  or  any  part  of  it.'
> (Article 11)
> 
> 'Palestine is  an  Islamic  land...  Since  this  is  the  case,  the
> Liberation of Palestine  is  an  individual  duty  for  every  Moslem
> wherever he may be.' (Article 13)
> 
> The Call to Jihad:
> 
> 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem  land,  Jihad  becomes  the
> individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,
> it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)
> 
> Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:
> 
> '[Peace]  initiatives,   and   so-called   peaceful   solutions   and
> international conferences are in contradiction to the  principles  of
> the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
> a means to appoint the  infidels  as  arbitrators  in  the  lands  of
> Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem  except  by
> Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a
> waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)


Here's something that is a little more current, than some 40 year old locker room chest thumping...



> _*Hamas stormed the political arena in force in 2005. *In January of that year, prior to scheduled municipal elections, a report from the U.S. State Department observed that Hamas was &#8220;Neck and Neck&#8221; with Fatah, the party under the leadership of President Abbas, with &#8220;a majority of both [Fatah] and Hamas supporters&#8221; backing &#8220;a continuation of the ceasefire, ongoing talks with Israel, and a two-state solution.&#8221;* It noted that Palestinians &#8220;tend to see Hamas as more qualified to clean up corruption, resist occupation, and uphold societal values&#8221;, and that the &#8220;lack of hope in the peace process may also contribute to support for Hamas.&#8221; *In other words, by rejecting the two-state solution, Israel was effectively helping, once again, to empower Hamas. A little over a week later, Hamas won an overwhelming victory in the municipal elections, gaining 75 out of 118 seats in 10 local councils, and with Fatah winning only 39 seats.
> 
> Hamas continued to gain council seats in further municipal elections in May. *But rather than encouraging Hamas&#8217;s engagement in the political process, Israel continued to seek to isolate the group. Instead of encouraging Hamas to moderate its behavior, Israel continued to attempt to provoke the group into a violent response. *Israel sent the message to Hamas that its steps towards moderation and political engagement would bear no fruit. *When Hamas cleaned the streets, Israeli bulldozers and tanks destroyed them, and when Hamas erected streetlights, Israeli soldiers shot them out.*
> 
> A further round of municipal elections were held in the West Bank in September, with Hamas again performing well, receiving nearly a third of the votes.
> 
> As the parliamentary election scheduled for January 25, 2006 drew near, Hamas published a manifesto that Western news agencies found remarkable for the absence of mention of any goal to eliminate Israel.
> 
> *Hamas candidate Gazi Hamad said it reflected the group&#8217;s position of seeking a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders. He said Hamas would not recognize that Israel had a &#8220;right to exist&#8221;, but that it was seeking to shift strategies away from armed struggle to engagement in the political process. *Palestinian cabinet minister Ghassan Khatib said, &#8220;Having Hamas inside the system is a positive development whereby they have to abide by the rules of the majority and respect the arguments of the administration they are part of, which includes a state built on 1967 borders. *It will take time but Hamas will no longer have their own militia. It will be solely a political force*.&#8221;_


BTW, they'll renounce their charter after Israel ends the occupation.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can sugarcoat it any way you want, but the Arab armies had no business invading the region and starting a war.
> The hostilities were between Israel and the Palestinians, not between the Arab states.
> And if they came in to ensure law and order, why did some of the Leaders literally threaten to destroy Israel if they became a state, prior to the war???
> 
> Using the logic in your last statement, I can say: Israeli forces wouldn't of had to expel those Palestinians during their military advances , if those 5 Arab states hadn't attacked.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what got their attention and why they eventually attacked...
> 
> 
> 
> _ ...*the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives* ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination* ...
> - Ahad Ha'am (Zionist humanist) _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's as if an East LA street gang moved to a suburb in the OC and immediately had run-ins with the  non-Chicano residents.  Then the OC Sherriff's announce they're leaving the area and will not be back to police it.  What do you think that LA gang is going to do?
Click to expand...


Terrible comparison. We're talking about foreign countries who had no beef in the fight.
I understand that they were there to ALSO assist the Palestinians, but the fact remains that they were the aggressors in the war. They started the war with Israel. Israel DID NOT start a war with any if them.


----------



## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can sugarcoat it any way you want, but the Arab armies had no business invading the region and starting a war.
> The hostilities were between Israel and the Palestinians, not between the Arab states.
> And if they came in to ensure law and order, why did some of the Leaders literally threaten to destroy Israel if they became a state, prior to the war???
> 
> Using the logic in your last statement, I can say: Israeli forces wouldn't of had to expel those Palestinians during their military advances , if those 5 Arab states hadn't attacked.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what got their attention and why they eventually attacked...
> 
> 
> 
> _ ...*the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives* ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination* ...
> - Ahad Ha'am (Zionist humanist) _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's as if an East LA street gang moved to a suburb in the OC and immediately had run-ins with the  non-Chicano residents.  Then the OC Sherriff's announce they're leaving the area and will not be back to police it.  What do you think that LA gang is going to do?
Click to expand...


Judging by the behavior of Moslems throughout the Middle East and Europe, they don't need a very solid excuse to commit murder.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the justice in your ass, use vaseline:
> 
> *Hamas Charter
> *
> 'The Islamic  Resistance  Movement  is  a  distinguished  Palestinian
> movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and  whose  way  of  life  is
> Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah  over  every  inch  of
> Palestine.' (Article 6)
> 
> On the Destruction of Israel:
> 
> 'Israel will exist and  will  continue  to  exist  until  Islam  will
> obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)
> 
> The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area
> 
> 'The  land  of  Palestine  is  an  Islamic  Waqf  [Holy   Possession]
> consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No  one
> can renounce it or any part, or  abandon  it  or  any  part  of  it.'
> (Article 11)
> 
> 'Palestine is  an  Islamic  land...  Since  this  is  the  case,  the
> Liberation of Palestine  is  an  individual  duty  for  every  Moslem
> wherever he may be.' (Article 13)
> 
> The Call to Jihad:
> 
> 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem  land,  Jihad  becomes  the
> individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,
> it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)
> 
> Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:
> 
> '[Peace]  initiatives,   and   so-called   peaceful   solutions   and
> international conferences are in contradiction to the  principles  of
> the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
> a means to appoint the  infidels  as  arbitrators  in  the  lands  of
> Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem  except  by
> Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a
> waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)
> 
> 
> 
> Here's something that is a little more current, than some 40 year old locker room chest thumping...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Hamas stormed the political arena in force in 2005. *In January of that year, prior to scheduled municipal elections, a report from the U.S. State Department observed that Hamas was Neck and Neck with Fatah, the party under the leadership of President Abbas, with a majority of both [Fatah] and Hamas supporters backing a continuation of the ceasefire, ongoing talks with Israel, and a two-state solution.* It noted that Palestinians tend to see Hamas as more qualified to clean up corruption, resist occupation, and uphold societal values, and that the lack of hope in the peace process may also contribute to support for Hamas. *In other words, by rejecting the two-state solution, Israel was effectively helping, once again, to empower Hamas. A little over a week later, Hamas won an overwhelming victory in the municipal elections, gaining 75 out of 118 seats in 10 local councils, and with Fatah winning only 39 seats.
> 
> Hamas continued to gain council seats in further municipal elections in May. *But rather than encouraging Hamass engagement in the political process, Israel continued to seek to isolate the group. Instead of encouraging Hamas to moderate its behavior, Israel continued to attempt to provoke the group into a violent response. *Israel sent the message to Hamas that its steps towards moderation and political engagement would bear no fruit. *When Hamas cleaned the streets, Israeli bulldozers and tanks destroyed them, and when Hamas erected streetlights, Israeli soldiers shot them out.*
> 
> A further round of municipal elections were held in the West Bank in September, with Hamas again performing well, receiving nearly a third of the votes.
> 
> As the parliamentary election scheduled for January 25, 2006 drew near, Hamas published a manifesto that Western news agencies found remarkable for the absence of mention of any goal to eliminate Israel.
> 
> *Hamas candidate Gazi Hamad said it reflected the groups position of seeking a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders. He said Hamas would not recognize that Israel had a right to exist, but that it was seeking to shift strategies away from armed struggle to engagement in the political process. *Palestinian cabinet minister Ghassan Khatib said, Having Hamas inside the system is a positive development whereby they have to abide by the rules of the majority and respect the arguments of the administration they are part of, which includes a state built on 1967 borders. *It will take time but Hamas will no longer have their own militia. It will be solely a political force*._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, they'll renounce their charter after Israel ends the occupation.
Click to expand...


- NOTHING you just posted changes the fact that The Hamas charter still calls for the destruction of Israel
- Nothing in that part of the charter says anything about occupation of the West Bank. It discusses Israel proper and how it should be obliterated.
- When did Hamas say that they would remove that part from their charter if Israel withdrew from the West Bank??


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> - NOTHING you just posted changes the fact that The Hamas charter still calls for the destruction of Israel
> - Nothing in that part of the charter says anything about occupation of the West Bank. It discusses Israel proper and how it should be obliterated.
> - When did Hamas say that they would remove that part from their charter if Israel withdrew from the West Bank??


What do you think they meant when they said once a two-state solution has been reached, they'll only exist has a political entity?

That they'll start a jihad against Jim Buss?


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Same old song.  All we want is justice for the Palestinian people, Christian and Muslim.  All we get is Zionist propaganda.  Yup, this section is the Zionist Stormfront. Ciao.



No you want some sort of revenge but you want it from the wrong group.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> IslamoTerrorist asskissers come in all shapes and forms.  But the common thread among most of them is ignorance and stupidity of which you have plenty of both.
> 
> 
> 
> I will say you're an expert on ignorance and stupidity.
Click to expand...

I'd say you wouldn't know shit from shinola if it hit you in the face.  Your ignorance and lack of knowledge is astounding.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the justice in your ass, use vaseline:
> 
> *Hamas Charter
> *
> 'The Islamic  Resistance  Movement  is  a  distinguished  Palestinian
> movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and  whose  way  of  life  is
> Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah  over  every  inch  of
> Palestine.' (Article 6)
> 
> On the Destruction of Israel:
> 
> 'Israel will exist and  will  continue  to  exist  until  Islam  will
> obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)
> 
> The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area
> 
> 'The  land  of  Palestine  is  an  Islamic  Waqf  [Holy   Possession]
> consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No  one
> can renounce it or any part, or  abandon  it  or  any  part  of  it.'
> (Article 11)
> 
> 'Palestine is  an  Islamic  land...  Since  this  is  the  case,  the
> Liberation of Palestine  is  an  individual  duty  for  every  Moslem
> wherever he may be.' (Article 13)
> 
> The Call to Jihad:
> 
> 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem  land,  Jihad  becomes  the
> individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,
> it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)
> 
> Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:
> 
> '[Peace]  initiatives,   and   so-called   peaceful   solutions   and
> international conferences are in contradiction to the  principles  of
> the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
> a means to appoint the  infidels  as  arbitrators  in  the  lands  of
> Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem  except  by
> Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a
> waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)
> 
> 
> 
> Here's something that is a little more current, than some 40 year old locker room chest thumping...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Hamas stormed the political arena in force in 2005. *In January of that year, prior to scheduled municipal elections, a report from the U.S. State Department observed that Hamas was &#8220;Neck and Neck&#8221; with Fatah, the party under the leadership of President Abbas, with &#8220;a majority of both [Fatah] and Hamas supporters&#8221; backing &#8220;a continuation of the ceasefire, ongoing talks with Israel, and a two-state solution.&#8221;* It noted that Palestinians &#8220;tend to see Hamas as more qualified to clean up corruption, resist occupation, and uphold societal values&#8221;, and that the &#8220;lack of hope in the peace process may also contribute to support for Hamas.&#8221; *In other words, by rejecting the two-state solution, Israel was effectively helping, once again, to empower Hamas. A little over a week later, Hamas won an overwhelming victory in the municipal elections, gaining 75 out of 118 seats in 10 local councils, and with Fatah winning only 39 seats.
> 
> Hamas continued to gain council seats in further municipal elections in May. *But rather than encouraging Hamas&#8217;s engagement in the political process, Israel continued to seek to isolate the group. Instead of encouraging Hamas to moderate its behavior, Israel continued to attempt to provoke the group into a violent response. *Israel sent the message to Hamas that its steps towards moderation and political engagement would bear no fruit. *When Hamas cleaned the streets, Israeli bulldozers and tanks destroyed them, and when Hamas erected streetlights, Israeli soldiers shot them out.*
> 
> A further round of municipal elections were held in the West Bank in September, with Hamas again performing well, receiving nearly a third of the votes.
> 
> As the parliamentary election scheduled for January 25, 2006 drew near, Hamas published a manifesto that Western news agencies found remarkable for the absence of mention of any goal to eliminate Israel.
> 
> *Hamas candidate Gazi Hamad said it reflected the group&#8217;s position of seeking a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders. He said Hamas would not recognize that Israel had a &#8220;right to exist&#8221;, but that it was seeking to shift strategies away from armed struggle to engagement in the political process. *Palestinian cabinet minister Ghassan Khatib said, &#8220;Having Hamas inside the system is a positive development whereby they have to abide by the rules of the majority and respect the arguments of the administration they are part of, which includes a state built on 1967 borders. *It will take time but Hamas will no longer have their own militia. It will be solely a political force*.&#8221;_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, they'll renounce their charter after Israel ends the occupation.
Click to expand...

There's that ignorance shining through again.  Hamas' calls for the destruction of the Israel to be replaced by and Islamic state is not even in dispute, Vaseline mouth.  LOL


----------



## MJB12741

It's a cultural thing us Westerners in the civilized world just can't understand.





Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can sugarcoat it any way you want, but the Arab armies had no business invading the region and starting a war.
> The hostilities were between Israel and the Palestinians, not between the Arab states.
> And if they came in to ensure law and order, why did some of the Leaders literally threaten to destroy Israel if they became a state, prior to the war???
> 
> Using the logic in your last statement, I can say: Israeli forces wouldn't of had to expel those Palestinians during their military advances , if those 5 Arab states hadn't attacked.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what got their attention and why they eventually attacked...
> 
> 
> 
> _ ...*the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives* ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination* ...
> - Ahad Ha'am (Zionist humanist) _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's as if an East LA street gang moved to a suburb in the OC and immediately had run-ins with the  non-Chicano residents.  Then the OC Sherriff's announce they're leaving the area and will not be back to police it.  What do you think that LA gang is going to do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Judging by the behavior of Moslems throughout the Middle East and Europe, they don't need a very solid excuse to commit murder.
Click to expand...


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> - NOTHING you just posted changes the fact that The Hamas charter still calls for the destruction of Israel
> - Nothing in that part of the charter says anything about occupation of the West Bank. It discusses Israel proper and how it should be obliterated.
> - When did Hamas say that they would remove that part from their charter if Israel withdrew from the West Bank??
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think they meant when they said once a two-state solution has been reached, they'll only exist has a political entity?
> 
> That they'll start a jihad against Jim Buss?
Click to expand...


Iran's former president was in a "political entity" and called for the destruction of Israel. He never took it back as far as I remember.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> Iran's former president was in a "political entity" and called for the destruction of Israel. He never took it back as far as I remember.


Because he was a nutcase and a fruit loop that they used, appropriately, like a piñata at his funeral.


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> It's a cultural thing us Westerners in the civilized world just can't understand.


How would you like it if someone who just moved into the neighborhood came up to you and said your house was now his?  started beating up your relatives; built a fence across your driveway to the point where your car no longer had access to the street; and went around trashing you to your neighbor's, telling them all it was your fault things had deteriorated?

What would you do?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> There's that ignorance shining through again.  Hamas' calls for the destruction of the Israel to be replaced by and Islamic state is not even in dispute, Vaseline mouth.  LOL


That's what you claim.  

And your only proof is some archaic document they made 50 years ago.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> I'd say you wouldn't know shit from shinola if it hit you in the face.  Your ignorance and lack of knowledge is astounding.


Is that what you call zone 2 compliance?


----------



## jodylee

jillian said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
Click to expand...


The 'designation' given to it by its current occupiers is Israel.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's that ignorance shining through again.  Hamas' calls for the destruction of the Israel to be replaced by and Islamic state is not even in dispute, Vaseline mouth.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you claim.
> 
> And your only proof is some archaic document they made 50 years ago.
Click to expand...

It's not what I claim, dipweed, it's in writing and it's their "constitution".  There's that ignorance again.  

Ignorance, illiteracy, and bigotry are prerequisites for being a Pali supporter.  It seems you are over qualified.  LOL


----------



## Roudy

jodylee said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 'designation' given to it by its current occupiers is Israel.
Click to expand...

Here comes another one.  The area was called Judea and Samaria for 3000 years until Arab animals changed it to West Bank after the 48 war.

Look it up.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say you wouldn't know shit from shinola if it hit you in the face.  Your ignorance and lack of knowledge is astounding.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what you call zone 2 compliance?
Click to expand...

Is that what YOU call zone 2 compliance?  Typical Palestinian mentality. 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...-who-are-the-palestinains-12.html#post8990213



> I will say you're an expert on ignorance and stupidity.


----------



## montelatici

Do you think the Israeli parties in the Israeli cabinet that call for the expulsion or genocide of the non-Jews should also change their positions?  Shas is not the most radical of these parties but has positions towards the non-Jews that Hamas has towards the Jews.

For example, Ovadia Yosef leader of Shas has been quoted as saying "Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians." 

also this same party leader called Arabs "vipers," and called for Israel to "annihilate" them. "It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."

Hamas are pretty mild compared to the equivalent Israeli radicals.

Shas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

montelatici said:


> Do you think the Israeli parties in the Israeli cabinet that call for the expulsion or genocide of the non-Jews should also change their positions?  Shas is not the most radical of these parties but has positions towards the non-Jews that Hamas has towards the Jews.
> 
> For example, Ovadia Yosef leader of Shas has been quoted as saying "Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians."
> 
> also this same party leader called Arabs "vipers," and called for Israel to "annihilate" them. "It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
> 
> Hamas are pretty mild compared to the equivalent Israeli radicals.
> 
> Shas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



One person in a minority movement as compared to millions of Islamics throughout the world and their clerics calling for the destruction of Jews.  Not such a comparison really is it?


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iran's former president was in a "political entity" and called for the destruction of Israel. He never took it back as far as I remember.
> 
> 
> 
> Because he was a nutcase and a fruit loop that they used, appropriately, like a piñata at his funeral.
Click to expand...


Just as long as you realize that your strawman argument about Hamas renouncing destroying Israel once they are a political entity is total crap, my job is done.


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a cultural thing us Westerners in the civilized world just can't understand.
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if someone who just moved into the neighborhood came up to you and said your house was now his?  started beating up your relatives; built a fence across your driveway to the point where your car no longer had access to the street; and went around trashing you to your neighbor's, telling them all it was your fault things had deteriorated?
> 
> What would you do?
Click to expand...


I dunno, let's ask the American Indians.


----------



## MJB12741

How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.






Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a cultural thing us Westerners in the civilized world just can't understand.
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if someone who just moved into the neighborhood came up to you and said your house was now his?  started beating up your relatives; built a fence across your driveway to the point where your car no longer had access to the street; and went around trashing you to your neighbor's, telling them all it was your fault things had deteriorated?
> 
> What would you do?
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a cultural thing us Westerners in the civilized world just can't understand.
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if someone who just moved into the neighborhood came up to you and said your house was now his?  started beating up your relatives; built a fence across your driveway to the point where your car no longer had access to the street; and went around trashing you to your neighbor's, telling them all it was your fault things had deteriorated?
> 
> What would you do?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Do you think the Israeli parties in the Israeli cabinet that call for the expulsion or genocide of the non-Jews should also change their positions?  Shas is not the most radical of these parties but has positions towards the non-Jews that Hamas has towards the Jews.
> 
> For example, Ovadia Yosef leader of Shas has been quoted as saying "Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians."
> 
> also this same party leader called Arabs "vipers," and called for Israel to "annihilate" them. "It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
> 
> Hamas are pretty mild compared to the equivalent Israeli radicals.
> 
> Shas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Hamas are terrorist animals and designated as a terrorist group by US and Western govt's.  Israel like the US is a free country you have extremists saying all kinds of stupid shit.  Heck we even allow terrorist supporting morons like you IslamoNaz lovers have their say.  Hamas is to Israelis as Al Queda is to the US.

 It's one thing to talk, it's another thing to shot rockets at innocent civilians and carry out suicide bombings and other terrorist acts.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if someone who just moved into the neighborhood came up to you and said your house was now his?  started beating up your relatives; built a fence across your driveway to the point where your car no longer had access to the street; and went around trashing you to your neighbor's, telling them all it was your fault things had deteriorated?
> 
> What would you do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
Click to expand...

Idiot, there was no Islam or Muslims before Christ, and even centuries after.  the fact that Muslims INVADED, looted, and killed people in the holy land (like they did everywhere else) doesn't make the land theirs. 

Wow, how stoopid can you Pali terrorist lovers get.  Ha ha ha


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idiot, there was no Islam or Muslims before Christ, and even centuries after.  the fact that Muslims INVADED, looted, and killed people in the holy land (like they did everywhere else) doesn't make the land theirs.
> 
> Wow, how stoopid can you Pali terrorist lovers get.  Ha ha ha
Click to expand...


You really do have a reading comprehension problem.  I suspect that English is not your first (or second) language.

The Muslims of Palestine are simply Christians (who had lived in Palestine since before the time of Christ) that converted from the Byzantine state Church (Greek Orthodox) to Islam after the Muslim conquests.  This is just basic historical fact.

" When the Muslim Caliph Omar conquered Syria from the Byzantine Empire around 636, he protected the Christians under his rule, allowing them to keep their churches and worship as they pleased. But many Christians converted to Islam anyway, preferring its emphasis on a personal connection with God to the oppressive hierarchies of the Byzantine Church."

National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com


----------



## aris2chat

jodylee said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 'designation' given to it by its current occupiers is Israel.
Click to expand...


designation used since before the Roman occupation.  It goes back three thousand years.


----------



## montelatici

Sweet_Caroline said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think the Israeli parties in the Israeli cabinet that call for the expulsion or genocide of the non-Jews should also change their positions?  Shas is not the most radical of these parties but has positions towards the non-Jews that Hamas has towards the Jews.
> 
> For example, Ovadia Yosef leader of Shas has been quoted as saying "Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians."
> 
> also this same party leader called Arabs "vipers," and called for Israel to "annihilate" them. "It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
> 
> Hamas are pretty mild compared to the equivalent Israeli radicals.
> 
> Shas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One person in a minority movement as compared to millions of Islamics throughout the world and their clerics calling for the destruction of Jews.  Not such a comparison really is it?
Click to expand...


It is not one person, it is the platform of Shas and a number of right wing  parties included in the current ruling coalition in Israel.   Since Netanyahu cannot rule without radical parties that promote the annihilation, expulsion or destruction of the non-Jews, perhaps Abbas can't rule without including radicals in his government.

The percentage of Jews that think that way is probably similar to the percentage of Muslims that think that way about Jews.  That there are more than a billion Muslims and perhaps 15 million Jews in the world, is just a fact and for that reason you will many millions of radical Muslims compared the same percentage but many less radical Jews.


----------



## Hossfly

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idiot, there was no Islam or Muslims before Christ, and even centuries after.  the fact that Muslims INVADED, looted, and killed people in the holy land (like they did everywhere else) doesn't make the land theirs.
> 
> Wow, how stoopid can you Pali terrorist lovers get.  Ha ha ha
Click to expand...

I think Forrest Gump had a comeback for that.   "Stupid is as stupid does"


----------



## MJB12741

Oh now I get it.  Read this folks.  "The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ."  Good one.  Heh Heh.





montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if someone who just moved into the neighborhood came up to you and said your house was now his?  started beating up your relatives; built a fence across your driveway to the point where your car no longer had access to the street; and went around trashing you to your neighbor's, telling them all it was your fault things had deteriorated?
> 
> What would you do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

MJB12741 said:


> Oh now I get it.  Read this folks.  "The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ."  Good one.  Heh Heh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

MJ, didn't you know that Dollar Store sells a cheap version of a Time Machine?


----------



## MJB12741

LOL!  "Christians & Muslims before the time of Christ."  Oh Gawd I love this board for all the laughs.





Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh now I get it.  Read this folks.  "The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ."  Good one.  Heh Heh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MJ, didn't you know that Dollar Store sells a cheap version of a Time Machine?
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Do you think the Israeli parties in the Israeli cabinet that call for the expulsion or genocide of the non-Jews should also change their positions?  Shas is not the most radical of these parties but has positions towards the non-Jews that Hamas has towards the Jews.
> 
> For example, Ovadia Yosef leader of Shas has been quoted as saying "Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians."
> 
> also this same party leader called Arabs "vipers," and called for Israel to "annihilate" them. "It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
> 
> Hamas are pretty mild compared to the equivalent Israeli radicals.
> 
> Shas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





 And what about the most fundamental aspect of islam the words spoken by Mohamed the psychopath when he declared open season on the Jews and commanded his followers to "WIPE OUT THE JEWS" and "KILL ALL THE JEWS".    That is 2.5 billion muslims thinking and acting in this way every day, all day. Now how many Jews in the whole world say this


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> How would you like it if someone who just moved into the neighborhood came up to you and said your house was now his?  started beating up your relatives; built a fence across your driveway to the point where your car no longer had access to the street; and went around trashing you to your neighbor's, telling them all it was your fault things had deteriorated?
> 
> What would you do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
Click to expand...




 The muslims did not turn up until 632C.E. so they could not have been there since before Christ. Same with the Christians many of which were pilgrims from other nations outside the M.E. But the Jews had been there since the time of David and had never left their land without a Jewish presence in the last 4,500 years. The history books show that the majority of arab muslims are recent migrants from other parts of the Ottoman Empire because the land was devoid of any human life but the Jews and Christians


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot, there was no Islam or Muslims before Christ, and even centuries after.  the fact that Muslims INVADED, looted, and killed people in the holy land (like they did everywhere else) doesn't make the land theirs.
> 
> Wow, how stoopid can you Pali terrorist lovers get.  Ha ha ha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really do have a reading comprehension problem.  I suspect that English is not your first (or second) language.
> 
> The Muslims of Palestine are simply Christians (who had lived in Palestine since before the time of Christ) that converted from the Byzantine state Church (Greek Orthodox) to Islam after the Muslim conquests.  This is just basic historical fact.
> 
> " When the Muslim Caliph Omar conquered Syria from the Byzantine Empire around 636, he protected the Christians under his rule, allowing them to keep their churches and worship as they pleased. But many Christians converted to Islam anyway, preferring its emphasis on a personal connection with God to the oppressive hierarchies of the Byzantine Church."
> 
> National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com
Click to expand...





Try again little boy as most Christians were migrants that turned up on pilgrimages and stayed. The Greek Orthodox church did not come into existence until after the death of Jesus, founded by St Paul. They were allowed so much freedom but not enough to rebuild churches in a state of disrepair, or to build new ones higher than the lowest Islamic building. The penalty for doing so was death. They could not openly display their religion on pain of death.  The people who converted did so because of the oppressive and restrictive nature of the pact of Omar.   

 But your ramblings still do not prove that the Palestinians of today are descendants of people who lived  there 1400 years before


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine have been there since before the time of Christ. Because they converted from earlier religions doesn't make them less indigenous.  The European settlers, on the other hand, are occupiers.  Your crap propaganda convinces no one but a few ignorant Americans.  Americans with any brains know better than fall for the crap propaganda and there are more and more of every day.
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot, there was no Islam or Muslims before Christ, and even centuries after.  the fact that Muslims INVADED, looted, and killed people in the holy land (like they did everywhere else) doesn't make the land theirs.
> 
> Wow, how stoopid can you Pali terrorist lovers get.  Ha ha ha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really do have a reading comprehension problem.  I suspect that English is not your first (or second) language.
> 
> The Muslims of Palestine are simply Christians (who had lived in Palestine since before the time of Christ) that converted from the Byzantine state Church (Greek Orthodox) to Islam after the Muslim conquests.  This is just basic historical fact.
> 
> " When the Muslim Caliph Omar conquered Syria from the Byzantine Empire around 636, he protected the Christians under his rule, allowing them to keep their churches and worship as they pleased. But many Christians converted to Islam anyway, preferring its emphasis on a personal connection with God to the oppressive hierarchies of the Byzantine Church."
> 
> National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com
Click to expand...

Dipshit!  You said "Muslims have been there before Christ".  Islam appeared in the holy land centuries after  Jesus died, after the Muslim savages invaded the Holy land.  Israel is not Moooooslem holyland, never has been, and never will be.

And stop making it look like Muslims didn't attack and invade Israel.  The are invading savages, always have been, always will be.  That's what your Koran tells you to do, convert:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Palestine

The Islamization of Palestine occurred as a result of the Islamic conquest of Palestine in 640. It was a long process that included immigration of Arabs and Muslims from other regions, as well as gradual conversion to Islam by some of the indigenous Christian, Samaritan and Jewish population of the area. Islam did not become the majority religion of Palestine until at least the 9th century and possibly even as late as the Mamluk era (1250 - 1516). This occurred simultaneously with acculturation of the locals into Arab identity and the establishment of Arabic as the lingua franca, which eventually became their sole vernacular.

The Muslim Arab army *attacked *Jerusalem, held by the Byzantine Romans, in November, 636. For four months the siege continued. Ultimately, the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, Sophronius, agreed to surrender Jerusalem to Caliph Umar in person. Caliph Umar, then at Medina, agreed to these terms and traveled to Jerusalem to sign the capitulation in the spring of 637. Sophronius also negotiated a pact with Caliph Umar, known as the Umariyya Covenant or Covenant of Omar, allowing for religious freedom for Christians in exchange for "jizya," a tax to be paid by conquered non-Muslims, called "dhimmis."  *APARTHEID, ANYONE?*

*Christians in Jerusalem* who sided with the Romans *were put to death* for high treason by the ruling Muslims. In 969, the Patriarch of Jerusalem, John VII, was put to death for treasonable correspondence with the Romans.  

AWWWW...I JUST GOT TEARS IN MY EYES FROM ALL THAT PEACEFUL BEHAVIOR THE MUSLIMS KEPT SHOWING IN LANDS THEY INVADED.

So, to conclude, the filth of Islam didn't invade Israel until centuries after the death of Jesus.


----------



## Roudy

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot, there was no Islam or Muslims before Christ, and even centuries after.  the fact that Muslims INVADED, looted, and killed people in the holy land (like they did everywhere else) doesn't make the land theirs.
> 
> Wow, how stoopid can you Pali terrorist lovers get.  Ha ha ha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really do have a reading comprehension problem.  I suspect that English is not your first (or second) language.
> 
> The Muslims of Palestine are simply Christians (who had lived in Palestine since before the time of Christ) that converted from the Byzantine state Church (Greek Orthodox) to Islam after the Muslim conquests.  This is just basic historical fact.
> 
> " When the Muslim Caliph Omar conquered Syria from the Byzantine Empire around 636, he protected the Christians under his rule, allowing them to keep their churches and worship as they pleased. But many Christians converted to Islam anyway, preferring its emphasis on a personal connection with God to the oppressive hierarchies of the Byzantine Church."
> 
> National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again little boy as most Christians were migrants that turned up on pilgrimages and stayed. The Greek Orthodox church did not come into existence until after the death of Jesus, founded by St Paul. They were allowed so much freedom but not enough to rebuild churches in a state of disrepair, or to build new ones higher than the lowest Islamic building. The penalty for doing so was death. They could not openly display their religion on pain of death.  The people who converted did so because of the oppressive and restrictive nature of the pact of Omar.
> 
> But your ramblings still do not prove that the Palestinians of today are descendants of people who lived  there 1400 years before
Click to expand...

This guy lives in this fantasy land that every single person in Israel was forced into the filth of Islam after the Muslim invasions.  He forgets that a tiny minority did, while the rest were forced to live as second class citizens and pay higher taxes, if they choose to keep their religion.

Truth is, Muslim animals practiced apartheid from ancient times.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot, there was no Islam or Muslims before Christ, and even centuries after.  the fact that Muslims INVADED, looted, and killed people in the holy land (like they did everywhere else) doesn't make the land theirs.
> 
> Wow, how stoopid can you Pali terrorist lovers get.  Ha ha ha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really do have a reading comprehension problem.  I suspect that English is not your first (or second) language.
> 
> The Muslims of Palestine are simply Christians (who had lived in Palestine since before the time of Christ) that converted from the Byzantine state Church (Greek Orthodox) to Islam after the Muslim conquests.  This is just basic historical fact.
> 
> " When the Muslim Caliph Omar conquered Syria from the Byzantine Empire around 636, he protected the Christians under his rule, allowing them to keep their churches and worship as they pleased. But many Christians converted to Islam anyway, preferring its emphasis on a personal connection with God to the oppressive hierarchies of the Byzantine Church."
> 
> National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dipshit!  You said "Muslims have been there before Christ".  Islam appeared in the holy land centuries after  Jesus died, after the Muslim savages invaded the Holy land.  Israel is not Moooooslem holyland, never has been, and never will be.
> 
> And stop making it look like Muslims didn't attack and invade Israel.  The are invading savages, always have been, always will be.  That's what your Koran tells you to do, convert:
> 
> Islamization of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Islamization of Palestine occurred as a result of the Islamic conquest of Palestine in 640. It was a long process that included immigration of Arabs and Muslims from other regions, as well as gradual conversion to Islam by some of the indigenous Christian, Samaritan and Jewish population of the area. Islam did not become the majority religion of Palestine until at least the 9th century and possibly even as late as the Mamluk era (1250 - 1516). This occurred simultaneously with acculturation of the locals into Arab identity and the establishment of Arabic as the lingua franca, which eventually became their sole vernacular.
> 
> The Muslim Arab army *attacked *Jerusalem, held by the Byzantine Romans, in November, 636. For four months the siege continued. Ultimately, the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, Sophronius, agreed to surrender Jerusalem to Caliph Umar in person. Caliph Umar, then at Medina, agreed to these terms and traveled to Jerusalem to sign the capitulation in the spring of 637. Sophronius also negotiated a pact with Caliph Umar, known as the Umariyya Covenant or Covenant of Omar, allowing for religious freedom for Christians in exchange for "jizya," a tax to be paid by conquered non-Muslims, called "dhimmis."  *APARTHEID, ANYONE?*
> 
> *Christians in Jerusalem* who sided with the Romans *were put to death* for high treason by the ruling Muslims. In 969, the Patriarch of Jerusalem, John VII, was put to death for treasonable correspondence with the Romans.
> 
> AWWWW...I JUST GOT TEARS IN MY EYES FROM ALL THAT PEACEFUL BEHAVIOR THE MUSLIMS KEPT SHOWING IN LANDS THEY INVADED.
> 
> So, to conclude, the filth of Islam didn't invade Israel until centuries after the death of Jesus.
Click to expand...


Well, it isn't just a reading comprehension problem.  There are other factors at play here, sheer stupidity is one.  

Where does the rather badly written Wiki piece alter anything I said?  Yes, when the Fatamids (from North Africa and mostly run by Berbers, not Arab,s by the way):

_"The Fatimid caliphate was also distinguished by the central role of Berbers in its initial establishment and development especially on military and political levels."_

Fatimid Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ruled Jerusalem, those that supported the enemy of the time, the Byzantines/Romans, were put to death.  What's so unusual with that?  The Romans did the same to people that supported the Fatimids.

None of your blathering changes the fact that the Muslims of Palestine are for the most part Christian converts to Islam.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really do have a reading comprehension problem.  I suspect that English is not your first (or second) language.
> 
> The Muslims of Palestine are simply Christians (who had lived in Palestine since before the time of Christ) that converted from the Byzantine state Church (Greek Orthodox) to Islam after the Muslim conquests.  This is just basic historical fact.
> 
> " When the Muslim Caliph Omar conquered Syria from the Byzantine Empire around 636, he protected the Christians under his rule, allowing them to keep their churches and worship as they pleased. But many Christians converted to Islam anyway, preferring its emphasis on a personal connection with God to the oppressive hierarchies of the Byzantine Church."
> 
> National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com
> 
> 
> 
> Dipshit!  You said "Muslims have been there before Christ".  Islam appeared in the holy land centuries after  Jesus died, after the Muslim savages invaded the Holy land.  Israel is not Moooooslem holyland, never has been, and never will be.
> 
> And stop making it look like Muslims didn't attack and invade Israel.  The are invading savages, always have been, always will be.  That's what your Koran tells you to do, convert:
> 
> Islamization of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Islamization of Palestine occurred as a result of the Islamic conquest of Palestine in 640. It was a long process that included immigration of Arabs and Muslims from other regions, as well as gradual conversion to Islam by some of the indigenous Christian, Samaritan and Jewish population of the area. Islam did not become the majority religion of Palestine until at least the 9th century and possibly even as late as the Mamluk era (1250 - 1516). This occurred simultaneously with acculturation of the locals into Arab identity and the establishment of Arabic as the lingua franca, which eventually became their sole vernacular.
> 
> The Muslim Arab army *attacked *Jerusalem, held by the Byzantine Romans, in November, 636. For four months the siege continued. Ultimately, the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, Sophronius, agreed to surrender Jerusalem to Caliph Umar in person. Caliph Umar, then at Medina, agreed to these terms and traveled to Jerusalem to sign the capitulation in the spring of 637. Sophronius also negotiated a pact with Caliph Umar, known as the Umariyya Covenant or Covenant of Omar, allowing for religious freedom for Christians in exchange for "jizya," a tax to be paid by conquered non-Muslims, called "dhimmis."  *APARTHEID, ANYONE?*
> 
> *Christians in Jerusalem* who sided with the Romans *were put to death* for high treason by the ruling Muslims. In 969, the Patriarch of Jerusalem, John VII, was put to death for treasonable correspondence with the Romans.
> 
> AWWWW...I JUST GOT TEARS IN MY EYES FROM ALL THAT PEACEFUL BEHAVIOR THE MUSLIMS KEPT SHOWING IN LANDS THEY INVADED.
> 
> So, to conclude, the filth of Islam didn't invade Israel until centuries after the death of Jesus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it isn't just a reading comprehension problem.  There are other factors at play here, sheer stupidity is one.
> 
> Where does the rather badly written Wiki piece alter anything I said?  Yes, when the Fatamids (from North Africa and mostly run by Berbers, not Arab,s by the way):
> 
> _"The Fatimid caliphate was also distinguished by the central role of Berbers in its initial establishment and development especially on military and political levels."_
> 
> Fatimid Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ruled Jerusalem, those that supported the enemy of the time, the Byzantines/Romans, were put to death.  What's so unusual with that?  The Romans did the same to people that supported the Fatimids.
> 
> None of your blathering changes the fact that the Muslims of Palestine are for the most part Christian converts to Islam.
Click to expand...

Nope.  ALL the Christians and Jews did NOT convert to Islam.  Most of them agreed to live as second class citizens with less rights, as opposed to be forced to convert to the filth of Islam. 

So, to conclude, in this case you lied twice, forked tongued Moooslim convert.  No Muslims or Arabs in Israel existed before Jesus, and not hundreds of years after.  And the only way Islam arrived in Israel was through invasion and violence.


----------



## Roudy

Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.  

This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Hossfly

Roudy said:


> Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.


When Hamas and Fatah merge maybe they will appoint Monte as Minister of Mis-information.He'd fit right in.


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> When Hamas and Fatah merge maybe they will appoint Monte as Minister of Mis-information.He'd fit right in.
Click to expand...

He's now on the phone talking to Hamas to getting his next mis-information orders.  Apparently that shtick with the Muslims being in Palestine before the time of Christ failed miserably.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.



Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).

In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.

The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.

The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians. 

After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.


Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.




Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).
> 
> In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.
> 
> The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.
> 
> The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians.
> 
> After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


How come, for such "important facts" a regular encycl-opedia like the Encyclopedia Britanica or even something from a history department of a major university which will verify these facts.  I can see why some teacher out here doesn't let her pupils use Wikipedia because people can put in anything they want and present them as true facts.  With so many sources available, why is Wikipedia the one that is generally used?


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).
> 
> In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.
> 
> The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.
> 
> The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians.
> 
> After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Useless response and even more useless links that have nothing to do with the discussion.  

So to recap, you're fulla shit again, you haven't been able to prove "there were Muslims in Palestine since the time of Christ", just spouting more bullshit Islamist propaganda and wishful thinking that "most Christians and Jews converted" without a shred of proof for that either.  

Therefore, like a good convert you simply repeat the Islamist talking points about Israel and Jerusalem, which are simply garbage.


----------



## Roudy

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).
> 
> In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.
> 
> The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.
> 
> The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians.
> 
> After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How come, for such "important facts" a regular encycl-opedia like the Encyclopedia Britanica or even something from a history department of a major university which will verify these facts.  I can see why some teacher out here doesn't let her pupils use Wikipedia because people can put in anything they want and present them as true facts.  With so many sources available, why is Wikipedia the one that is generally used?
Click to expand...

Because he has no evidence for his asinine claims.  So he posts these long irrelevant Wikipedia links.  Pathetic.  Bottom line is Israel and Jerusalem have always belonged to Jews and been in their hearts and souls, and despite many invasions and conquests, the Jews are back home again.  

Can we get a praise to Allah from the convert?


----------



## Hossfly

Roudy said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).
> 
> In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.
> 
> The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.
> 
> The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians.
> 
> After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How come, for such "important facts" a regular encycl-opedia like the Encyclopedia Britanica or even something from a history department of a major university which will verify these facts.  I can see why some teacher out here doesn't let her pupils use Wikipedia because people can put in anything they want and present them as true facts.  With so many sources available, why is Wikipedia the one that is generally used?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because he has no evidence for his asinine claims.  So he posts these long irrelevant Wikipedia links.  Pathetic.  Bottom line is Israel and Jerusalem have always belonged to Jews and been in their hearts and souls, and despite many invasions and conquests, the Jews are back home again.
> 
> Can we get a praise to Allah from the convert?
Click to expand...

Allahu Akbar!   Whoa, Clyde!


----------



## MJB12741

"Chriustians & Muslims before the time of Christ."  That has got to be his best one yet.  Heh Heh!



MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.  

This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.[/quote]

Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).

In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.

The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.

The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians. 

After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.


Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.




Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]
Useless response and even more useless links that have nothing to do with the discussion.  

So to recap, you're fulla shit again, you haven't been able to prove "there were Muslims in Palestine since the time of Christ", just spouting more bullshit Islamist propaganda and wishful thinking that "most Christians and Jews converted" without a shred of proof for that either.  

Therefore, like a good convert you simply repeat the Islamist talking points about Israel and Jerusalem, which are simply garbage.






[/QUOTE]


----------



## montelatici

1. Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.   

Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk

2. The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses.  But, it won't be any different than Wiki.  99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians.  No one questions it except Zionutters.  Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:



*Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin

*In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
"During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "


*"The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."*

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

But, for any of you that have any brains at all, think about this.  Before the Arab "hordes" there were the German "hordes".  They conquered most of Europe, and sacked Rome.  They ruled much of Italy thereafter.  Did the Italians turn into Germans.  The Germans (Franks) conquered Gaul (France), did the French turn into Germans.  Same with Spain.  The Germans (Visigoths) conquered Spain but the Spanish remained Iberian.  And finally, an Arab "horde" analogy, Sicily was conquered and ruled by the Arabs from 831 to 1072, the Sicilians did not magically become Arabs.


----------



## MJB12741

So are those Palestinians you refer to who are "for the most part converted Christians" the ones who converted before the birth of Jesus?





montelatici said:


> 1. Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> 2. The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses.  But, it won't be any different than Wiki.  99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians.  No one questions it except Zionutters.  Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> *In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 
> *"The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."*
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> But, for any of you that have any brains at all, think about this.  Before the Arab "hordes" there were the German "hordes".  They conquered most of Europe, and sacked Rome.  They ruled much of Italy thereafter.  Did the Italians turn into Germans.  The Germans (Franks) conquered Gaul (France), did the French turn into Germans.  Same with Spain.  The Germans (Visigoths) conquered Spain but the Spanish remained Iberian.  And finally, an Arab "horde" analogy, Sicily was conquered and ruled by the Arabs from 831 to 1072, the Sicilians did not magically become Arabs.


----------



## MrMax

It doesn't even matter who was there first. Just look at the Americas...
Anyways, moo slims will just fuck up any territory with sharia law like they've done everywhere else they are.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> It doesn't even matter who was there first. Just look at the Americas...
> Anyways, moo slims will just fuck up any territory with sharia law like they've done everywhere else they are.


So you think its okay for someone you never met, to come over to your house and declare it theirs?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> 1. Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> 2. The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses.  But, it won't be any different than Wiki.  99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians.  No one questions it except Zionutters.  Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> *In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 
> *"The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."*
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> But, for any of you that have any brains at all, think about this.  Before the Arab "hordes" there were the German "hordes".  They conquered most of Europe, and sacked Rome.  They ruled much of Italy thereafter.  Did the Italians turn into Germans.  The Germans (Franks) conquered Gaul (France), did the French turn into Germans.  Same with Spain.  The Germans (Visigoths) conquered Spain but the Spanish remained Iberian.  And finally, an Arab "horde" analogy, Sicily was conquered and ruled by the Arabs from 831 to 1072, the Sicilians did not magically become Arabs.







 Now make your mind up about what the people who lived in Palestine were. As you say when the Germanic tribes conquered Italy the Italians did not become Germanic. By the same token when the arab muslims hordes conquered Palestine the people did not become Arabic. So the people stayed Judaic and European while becoming Islamic by force.

 So how did the people of Samaria and Judea suddenly become arabs, unless the arab invaders wiped them out.................


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't even matter who was there first. Just look at the Americas...
> Anyways, moo slims will just fuck up any territory with sharia law like they've done everywhere else they are.
> 
> 
> 
> So you think its okay for someone you never met, to come over to your house and declare it theirs?
Click to expand...


You should ask the American Indians.


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> How did you get to be so silly?  It is the Palestinians who are squatters on Israel's land for generations without any deeds to the land they stole.


Every country on the planet and over 100 UN resolutions say you're full of shit!

So fuck off, prick!


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> Just as long as you realize that your strawman argument about Hamas renouncing destroying Israel once they are a political entity is total crap, my job is done.


And just what do you base that conclusion on?


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> I dunno, let's ask the American Indians.


What are you going to ask them?

How come Palestinian's didn't get casinos like they did?


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> You should ask the American Indians.


No, I asked you that question, do you not have the balls to answer it?


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should ask the American Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I asked you that question, do you not have the balls to answer it?
Click to expand...


Are you too ashamed to ask the Indians? They'd probably tell you the same thing that I'm telling you now: you snooze, you lose. So move on already and be happy with whatever they give you.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> Are you too ashamed to ask the Indians?


What makes you think I haven't already?



MrMax said:


> They'd probably tell you the same thing that I'm telling you now: you snooze, you lose. So move on already and be happy with whatever they give you.


So you're saying, Israel should just "move on" and "be happy", with whatever the Palestinian's give them?

That makes no sense whatsoever!

But you being too pussy to answer a direct question, does.


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you too ashamed to ask the Indians?
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think I haven't already?
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> They'd probably tell you the same thing that I'm telling you now: you snooze, you lose. So move on already and be happy with whatever they give you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you're saying, Israel should just "move on" and "be happy", with whatever the Palestinian's give them?
> 
> That makes no sense whatsoever!
> 
> But you being too pussy to answer a direct question, does.
Click to expand...


No, the Pals have been beaten and should move onto small reservations out of sight. Just like your Indians did after you massacred them.


----------



## MJB12741

The overwhelming majority of Palestinians are just a bunch of squatters on stolen land in Israel that they hold no deeds to.  How about this proposal?  All Palestinians who hold deeds to the land they reside on can stay & all those who do not must leave.  Fair eneough?



Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't even matter who was there first. Just look at the Americas...
> Anyways, moo slims will just fuck up any territory with sharia law like they've done everywhere else they are.
> 
> 
> 
> So you think its okay for someone you never met, to come over to your house and declare it theirs?
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> 2. The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses.  But, it won't be any different than Wiki.  99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians.  No one questions it except Zionutters.  Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> *In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 
> *"The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."*
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> But, for any of you that have any brains at all, think about this.  Before the Arab "hordes" there were the German "hordes".  They conquered most of Europe, and sacked Rome.  They ruled much of Italy thereafter.  Did the Italians turn into Germans.  The Germans (Franks) conquered Gaul (France), did the French turn into Germans.  Same with Spain.  The Germans (Visigoths) conquered Spain but the Spanish remained Iberian.  And finally, an Arab "horde" analogy, Sicily was conquered and ruled by the Arabs from 831 to 1072, the Sicilians did not magically become Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now make your mind up about what the people who lived in Palestine were. As you say when the Germanic tribes conquered Italy the Italians did not become Germanic. By the same token when the arab muslims hordes conquered Palestine the people did not become Arabic. So the people stayed Judaic and European while becoming Islamic by force.
> 
> So how did the people of Samaria and Judea suddenly become arabs, unless the arab invaders wiped them out.................
Click to expand...


"By the same token when the arab muslims hordes conquered Palestine the people did not become Arabic."

No they became Muslim and began speaking Arabic, but they were and continue to be the Byzantine Christians that converted to islam, for the most part.


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> "Chriustians & Muslims before the time of Christ."  That has got to be his best one yet.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.



Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).

In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.

The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.

The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians. 

After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.


Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.




Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]
Useless response and even more useless links that have nothing to do with the discussion.  

So to recap, you're fulla shit again, you haven't been able to prove "there were Muslims in Palestine since the time of Christ", just spouting more bullshit Islamist propaganda and wishful thinking that "most Christians and Jews converted" without a shred of proof for that either.  

Therefore, like a good convert you simply repeat the Islamist talking points about Israel and Jerusalem, which are simply garbage.







[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

"He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" 

No, you have a reading comprehension problem.  As all or most historians agree on, the Palestinians of today are the offspring of the Christians of Palestine that lived in Palestine  to the end of Byzantine (Christian) rule in Palestine. and many or most of those Christians converted to Islam during Muslim rule.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> No, the Pals have been beaten and should move onto small reservations out of sight. Just like your Indians did after you massacred them.


When do they get their casinos?

Also, you do realize reservations are Native American sovereign territory and the US government has no jurisdiction there?   So for your comparison to work, Israel needs to get the fuck off the Palestinian's "reservation" and let the Pals govern themselves, like "Indians" do here in the good ole US of A.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).
> 
> In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.
> 
> The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.
> 
> The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians.
> 
> After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Syrian provence was divided into Syria Prima, Syria Salutaris, Phoenice Lebanensis, Palaestina Prima, Palaestina Secunda and eventually also Palaestina Salutaris.  None were states, only districts for tax purposes. The names were given by Hadrian after the jewish revolts


----------



## MJB12741

Just curious.  Why do you support the land thieving Palestinian squatters on Israel's land?  Is it because it's gone on now for several generations?





Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Pals have been beaten and should move onto small reservations out of sight. Just like your Indians did after you massacred them.
> 
> 
> 
> When do they get their casinos?
> 
> Also, you do realize reservations are Native American sovereign territory and the US government has no jurisdiction there?   So for your comparison to work, Israel needs to get the fuck off the Palestinian's "reservation" and let the Pals govern themselves, like "Indians" do here in the good ole US of A.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> Just curious.  Why do you support the land thieving Palestinian squatters on Israel's land?  Is it because it's gone on now for several generations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Pals have been beaten and should move onto small reservations out of sight. Just like your Indians did after you massacred them.
> 
> 
> 
> When do they get their casinos?
> 
> Also, you do realize reservations are Native American sovereign territory and the US government has no jurisdiction there?   So for your comparison to work, Israel needs to get the fuck off the Palestinian's "reservation" and let the Pals govern themselves, like "Indians" do here in the good ole US of A.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


It wasn't Israel's land.  It was Christian land before the Muslims took it.


----------



## member

MJB12741 said:


> *"Let us consider the facts.    (
> 
> ) Fair enough?  WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS"*




Aren't they a '_people_' *(*

*)*


who actually VOTED for 




a bunch of 

 terrorists as their leaders ?







​


----------



## MJB12741

How do ya like that?  And here I actually believed it was the land of the Israelites.  Hey Monte, did you know that Snoopy shot down the Red Baron?





montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious.  Why do you support the land thieving Palestinian squatters on Israel's land?  Is it because it's gone on now for several generations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> When do they get their casinos?
> 
> Also, you do realize reservations are Native American sovereign territory and the US government has no jurisdiction there?   So for your comparison to work, Israel needs to get the fuck off the Palestinian's "reservation" and let the Pals govern themselves, like "Indians" do here in the good ole US of A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel's land.  It was Christian land before the Muslims took it.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's that ignorance shining through again.  Hamas' calls for the destruction of the Israel to be replaced by and Islamic state is not even in dispute, Vaseline mouth.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you claim.
> 
> And your only proof is some archaic document they made 50 years ago.
Click to expand...


The so called Hamas charter was written by one man and was not signed by any Hamas leaders.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's that ignorance shining through again.  Hamas' calls for the destruction of the Israel to be replaced by and Islamic state is not even in dispute, Vaseline mouth.  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you claim.
> 
> And your only proof is some archaic document they made 50 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The so called Hamas charter was written by one man and was not signed by any Hamas leaders.
Click to expand...

Ya okay, keep saying that as if anybody is going to believe it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you claim.
> 
> And your only proof is some archaic document they made 50 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The so called Hamas charter was written by one man and was not signed by any Hamas leaders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya okay, keep saying that as if anybody is going to believe it.
Click to expand...


Ah, so you have a list of Hamas leaders who signed that document?


----------



## MrMax

MJB12741 said:


> How do ya like that?  And here I actually believed it was the land of the Israelites.  Hey Monte, did you know that Snoopy shot down the Red Baron?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious.  Why do you support the land thieving Palestinian squatters on Israel's land?  Is it because it's gone on now for several generations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel's land.  It was Christian land *before the Muslims took it*.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So muslims have the same exact claim to the land as Israel does, they took it by force. Except those pussy arabs couldn't hold it, just like any piece of arab land that we want, we take by force: Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Afghanistan...


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> Ah, so you have a list of Hamas leaders who signed that document?


Asking *Roudy* questions you know he can't answer, is half the fun!


The other half is knowing exactly what his response is going to be.


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Pals have been beaten and should move onto small reservations out of sight. Just like your Indians did after you massacred them.
> 
> 
> 
> When do they get their casinos?
> 
> Also, you do realize reservations are Native American sovereign territory and the US government has no jurisdiction there?   So for your comparison to work, Israel needs to get the fuck off the Palestinian's "reservation" and let the Pals govern themselves, like "Indians" do here in the good ole US of A.
Click to expand...


No, the Pals on already on their reservations, and if they don't surrender soon, they'll lose even more land until they do surrender, just like the Indians did, who by the way, never got land back, just like the Pals won't get..


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> So muslims have the same exact claim to the land as Israel does, they took it by force.


Wrong!

They're an indigenous population who had been living there for generations.




MrMax said:


> Except those pussy arabs couldn't hold it, just like any piece of arab land that we want, we take by force: Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Afghanistan...


That has been outlawed since the end of WWII.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> No, the Pals on already on their reservations,


 So are the Israeli's!

They're on the Pals reservations too; in contrast, the US government is not!



MrMax said:


> and if they don't surrender soon, they'll lose even more land until they do surrender, just like the Indians did, who by the way, never got land back, just like the Pals won't get..


WTF are you talking about?  

They're a population under occupation; they're already past the surrendering part, you dumbass!


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Just curious.  Why do you support the land thieving Palestinian squatters on Israel's land?  Is it because it's gone on now for several generations?


Because they're not squatters and it's not Israel's land.


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Pals on already on their reservations,
> 
> 
> 
> So are the Israeli's!
> 
> They're on the Pals reservations too; in contrast, the US government is not!
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> and if they don't surrender soon, they'll lose even more land until they do surrender, just like the Indians did, who by the way, never got land back, just like the Pals won't get..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> They're a population under occupation; they're already past the surrendering part, you dumbass!
Click to expand...


No, because if they had surrendered, they wouldn't be shooting fireworks at Israel or trying to car bomb and bus bomb them... Japan and Germany did very well after they surrendered, and now they are a valued and trusted partner of the US. The Pals should try it. Since they suck at war anyways... Like all arab countries, btw.


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious.  Why do you support the land thieving Palestinian squatters on Israel's land?  Is it because it's gone on now for several generations?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they're not squatters and it's not Israel's land.
Click to expand...


Billy's a hypocrite, he won't give his land back to the Indians but wants others to do what he's unwilling to do himself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MrMax said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Pals on already on their reservations,
> 
> 
> 
> So are the Israeli's!
> 
> They're on the Pals reservations too; in contrast, the US government is not!
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> and if they don't surrender soon, they'll lose even more land until they do surrender, just like the Indians did, who by the way, never got land back, just like the Pals won't get..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> They're a population under occupation; they're already past the surrendering part, you dumbass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, because if they had surrendered, they wouldn't be shooting fireworks at Israel or trying to car bomb and bus bomb them... Japan and Germany did very well after they surrendered, and now they are a valued and trusted partner of the US. The Pals should try it. Since they suck at war anyways... Like all arab countries, btw.
Click to expand...


How many people in Japan or Germany were kicked out of their home and replaces by US settlers?


----------



## Billo_Really

member said:


> Aren't they a '_people_' *(*
> 
> *)*
> 
> 
> who actually VOTED for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a bunch of
> 
> terrorists as their leaders ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


 *I could say the same thing about Zionists.*




Aren't they a '_people_'  





who actually VOTED for  





a bunch of   

  terrorists as their leaders?





​



Show some   

   next time!


----------



## MrMax

P F Tinmore said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> So are the Israeli's!
> 
> They're on the Pals reservations too; in contrast, the US government is not!
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> They're a population under occupation; they're already past the surrendering part, you dumbass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, because if they had surrendered, they wouldn't be shooting fireworks at Israel or trying to car bomb and bus bomb them... Japan and Germany did very well after they surrendered, and now they are a valued and trusted partner of the US. The Pals should try it. Since they suck at war anyways... Like all arab countries, btw.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many people in Japan or Germany were kicked out of their home and replaces by US settlers?
Click to expand...


They surrendered, the Pals should try it.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> No, because if they had surrendered, they wouldn't be shooting fireworks at Israel or trying to car bomb and bus bomb them... Japan and Germany did very well after they surrendered, and now they are a valued and trusted partner of the US. The Pals should try it. Since they suck at war anyways... Like all arab countries, btw.


End the occupation and you won't get any fireworks.

It's that simple.


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> They surrendered, the Pals should try it.


Maybe you should surrender and stop being such a pussy and answer the question I asked you earlier?


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> Billy's a hypocrite, he won't give his land back to the Indians but wants others to do what he's unwilling to do himself.


I'm not on Indian land; I'm on Mexican land!

And I'm not a hypocrite; I'm willing to give back Texas!


----------



## P F Tinmore

MrMax said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, because if they had surrendered, they wouldn't be shooting fireworks at Israel or trying to car bomb and bus bomb them... Japan and Germany did very well after they surrendered, and now they are a valued and trusted partner of the US. The Pals should try it. Since they suck at war anyways... Like all arab countries, btw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many people in Japan or Germany were kicked out of their home and replaces by US settlers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They surrendered, the Pals should try it.
Click to expand...


Thank you.

Since the Palestinians have not surrendered, Israel has won no land.

Israel is claiming victory before the end of the war.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many people in Japan or Germany were kicked out of their home and replaces by US settlers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They surrendered, the Pals should try it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Since the Palestinians have not surrendered, Israel has won no land.
> 
> Israel is claiming victory before the end of the war.
Click to expand...


Following the current pattern, in a few years there will be no West Bank Jordanians left to surrender.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> They surrendered, the Pals should try it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Since the Palestinians have not surrendered, Israel has won no land.
> 
> Israel is claiming victory before the end of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Following the current pattern, in a few years there will be no West Bank Jordanians left to surrender.
Click to expand...


Not true.

It is illegal to take land by force.

It is illegal to annex occupied land.


----------



## MrMax

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Since the Palestinians have not surrendered, Israel has won no land.
> 
> Israel is claiming victory before the end of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the current pattern, in a few years there will be no West Bank Jordanians left to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> It is illegal to take land by force.
> 
> It is illegal to annex occupied land.
Click to expand...

Yet you refuse to give your land back to the Indians. Practise what you preach, it would give you at least SOME credibility.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MrMax said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the current pattern, in a few years there will be no West Bank Jordanians left to surrender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> It is illegal to take land by force.
> 
> It is illegal to annex occupied land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet you refuse to give your land back to the Indians. Practise what you preach, it would give you at least SOME credibility.
Click to expand...


I know Indians. Some live down the street.

What is your point?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Since the Palestinians have not surrendered, Israel has won no land.
> 
> Israel is claiming victory before the end of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the current pattern, in a few years there will be no West Bank Jordanians left to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> It is illegal to take land by force.
> 
> It is illegal to annex occupied land.
Click to expand...


So the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans have to get together and write a document declaring the Jews the indisputable owners of the Land of Israel.
Sounds good to me.

Actually, taking land by force has been going on without interruption for thousands of years.
I think it's time you manned up and went to the Knesset and straightened things out.
And while you're at it, repartition the rest of the Middle East to where it was prior to WWI.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Since the Palestinians have not surrendered, Israel has won no land.
> 
> Israel is claiming victory before the end of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following the current pattern, in a few years there will be no West Bank Jordanians left to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> It is illegal to take land by force.
> 
> It is illegal to annex occupied land.
Click to expand...


In a war of attack, yes it is illegal.  

In a war of defense, no, it is totally legal to take the land.  

Face it.  The miracle of the 6 Day war in which Israel was about to be annihilated by surrounding countries gave Israel victory and the land back to the Jewish people where it rightfully belongs.


----------



## MrMax

P F Tinmore said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> It is illegal to take land by force.
> 
> It is illegal to annex occupied land.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you refuse to give your land back to the Indians. Practise what you preach, it would give you at least SOME credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know Indians. Some live down the street.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...


You're claiming that Israel should give back land, while you're not willing to give back your  land won in war to the Indians, which you took by force. That's called a hypocrite. Now you know.


----------



## MJB12741

It's really quite simple.  Don't want to lose land?  Don't attack Israel.  It seems the Arab countries have finally figured that out.  But then, Palestinians will be Palestinians.





Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the current pattern, in a few years there will be no West Bank Jordanians left to surrender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> It is illegal to take land by force.
> 
> It is illegal to annex occupied land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In a war of attack, yes it is illegal.
> 
> In a war of defense, no, it is totally legal to take the land.
> 
> Face it.  The miracle of the 6 Day war in which Israel was about to be annihilated by surrounding countries gave Israel victory and the land back to the Jewish people where it rightfully belongs.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The so called Hamas charter was written by one man and was not signed by any Hamas leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya okay, keep saying that as if anybody is going to believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, so you have a list of Hamas leaders who signed that document?
Click to expand...

Poor Tinmore.  Why do you like kicking thorns?  The Hamas Charter is not even denied by Hamas themselves.  You guys need to get your stories straight.  Either that, or Hamas needs to fire you as their spokesperson.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Chriustians & Muslims before the time of Christ."  That has got to be his best one yet.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> MOHOMOD Latici, he can't face the truth that Jews and Christians were in Israel thousands of years before Muslims and Arabs arrived.  He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" when Islam is merely 1400 years old, and Arab animals invaded Israel hundreds of years after Islam arrived.
> 
> This kinda fits into the idiotic Muslim claim that Jesus, Moses, and Abraham were Muslims.  Maybe they didn't know it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, since before the time of Christ and prior to 614 AD the area was called Palestina Prima and was a province of the Roman Empire (either Western or Eastern/Byzantine).
> 
> In 614 the Persian Sassanid Empire (which was not Muslim at the time) with their Jewish allies conquered Palestina Prima from the Romans (Byzantines) they massacred most of the Christians and for a brief period it had a Jewish Governor.
> 
> The Romans retook Palestina Prima in 629 AD and the Jews were either killed, fled or converted to Christianity.
> 
> The Muslim never conquered Israel.  They conquered the Roman Province of Palestina Prima for the first time in 637 when it was ruled by, and populated by Christians.
> 
> After the Muslim conquest, most Christians converted to Islam (obvious tax advantage).  That is why the Muslims of Palestine today are, for the most part. the offspring of the same people that were once the Christians of Palestine. The Christian Palestinians are those that did not convert, for the most part.
> 
> 
> Of course, the Christian Crusaders reconquered Palestine and ruled it as the Latin Kingdom from 1099 to 1187.  Jews were less welcome in the Latin Kingdom than Muslims since they had helped the Muslims defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. But, that's another part of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Kingdom of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Useless response and even more useless links that have nothing to do with the discussion.  

So to recap, you're fulla shit again, you haven't been able to prove "there were Muslims in Palestine since the time of Christ", just spouting more bullshit Islamist propaganda and wishful thinking that "most Christians and Jews converted" without a shred of proof for that either.  

Therefore, like a good convert you simply repeat the Islamist talking points about Israel and Jerusalem, which are simply garbage.






[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

"He keeps saying "Muslims were in Palestine before the time of Christ" 

No, you have a reading comprehension problem.  As all or most historians agree on, the Palestinians of today are the offspring of the Christians of Palestine that lived in Palestine  to the end of Byzantine (Christian) rule in Palestine. and many or most of those Christians converted to Islam during Muslim rule.[/QUOTE]

Ha ha ha, what a load of crap.  The only thing that is true about the Palestinians are that they are Arabs identical to their Arab neighbors, who invaded Israel in the 20 the century, and began calling themselves Palestinians as of the 1960's.  You can put all the lipstick you want on this pig, but it will still be a pig.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious.  Why do you support the land thieving Palestinian squatters on Israel's land?  Is it because it's gone on now for several generations?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they're not squatters and it's not Israel's land.
Click to expand...

It wasn't Arab land either dipshit.  Not for at least 700 years.  Now you know.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> 2. The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses.  But, it won't be any different than Wiki.  99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians.  No one questions it except Zionutters.  Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 
> 
> *Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> *In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 
> *"The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."*
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> But, for any of you that have any brains at all, think about this.  Before the Arab "hordes" there were the German "hordes".  They conquered most of Europe, and sacked Rome.  They ruled much of Italy thereafter.  Did the Italians turn into Germans.  The Germans (Franks) conquered Gaul (France), did the French turn into Germans.  Same with Spain.  The Germans (Visigoths) conquered Spain but the Spanish remained Iberian.  And finally, an Arab "horde" analogy, Sicily was conquered and ruled by the Arabs from 831 to 1072, the Sicilians did not magically become Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now make your mind up about what the people who lived in Palestine were. As you say when the Germanic tribes conquered Italy the Italians did not become Germanic. By the same token when the arab muslims hordes conquered Palestine the people did not become Arabic. So the people stayed Judaic and European while becoming Islamic by force.
> 
> So how did the people of Samaria and Judea suddenly become arabs, unless the arab invaders wiped them out.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "By the same token when the arab muslims hordes conquered Palestine the people did not become Arabic."
> 
> No they became Muslim and began speaking Arabic, but they were and continue to be the Byzantine Christians that converted to islam, for the most part.
Click to expand...

Nope.  There is no actual proof for any of your claims.  Just wishful thinking by a Muslim convert who spreads lies 24 /7.  Jews successfully defended the holy city of Hebron from the Crusaders over 600 years ago.  Fast forward to 1929, invading Arab animals committed genocide and ethnic cleansing in these same ancient Jews, and turned the city into an "Arab city". The only way Arabs and Muslims acquire any land in history has been through invasions and barbarism.  That is a fact you can take to the bank.


----------



## MJB12741

All Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations of these lands were forced to convert, leave or be killed.





Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now make your mind up about what the people who lived in Palestine were. As you say when the Germanic tribes conquered Italy the Italians did not become Germanic. By the same token when the arab muslims hordes conquered Palestine the people did not become Arabic. So the people stayed Judaic and European while becoming Islamic by force.
> 
> So how did the people of Samaria and Judea suddenly become arabs, unless the arab invaders wiped them out.................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "By the same token when the arab muslims hordes conquered Palestine the people did not become Arabic."
> 
> No they became Muslim and began speaking Arabic, but they were and continue to be the Byzantine Christians that converted to islam, for the most part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.  There is no actual proof for any of your claims.  Just wishful thinking by a Muslim convert who spreads lies 24 /7.  Jews successfully defended the holy city of Hebron from the Crusaders over 600 years ago.  Fast forward to 1929, invading Arab animals committed genocide and ethnic cleansing in these same ancient Jews, and turned the city into an "Arab city". The only way Arabs and Muslims acquire any land in history has been through invasions and barbarism.  That is a fact you can take to the bank.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> It wasn't Arab land either dipshit.  Not for at least 700 years.  Now you know.


Bullshit!  

Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> So are the Israeli's!
> 
> They're on the Pals reservations too; in contrast, the US government is not!
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> They're a population under occupation; they're already past the surrendering part, you dumbass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, because if they had surrendered, they wouldn't be shooting fireworks at Israel or trying to car bomb and bus bomb them... Japan and Germany did very well after they surrendered, and now they are a valued and trusted partner of the US. The Pals should try it. Since they suck at war anyways... Like all arab countries, btw.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many people in Japan or Germany were kicked out of their home and replaces by US settlers?
Click to expand...


Uhhh is the U.S bordered with Japan?
Does the U.S need more homes for its citizens ?
Is Japan holy to to the U.S??

I'm just saying, there's not really a comparison.


----------



## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Arab land either dipshit.  Not for at least 700 years.  Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!
Click to expand...


You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
If only other nations could follow suit.


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Arab land either dipshit.  Not for at least 700 years.  Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
> If only other nations could follow suit.
Click to expand...


Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines. 

But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Arab land either dipshit.  Not for at least 700 years.  Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!
Click to expand...

You mean after the Arabs invaded the region pre 1948, in the early 1900.   That's just a map of the areas the Arabs invaded  : cuckoo:


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
> If only other nations could follow suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
Click to expand...

But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.  

Fifty-one member countries &#8211; the entire League of Nations &#8211; unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:

&#8220;Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.&#8221;

Final territory assigned to Jewish national home in 1922:


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
> If only other nations could follow suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.
> 
> Fifty-one member countries  the entire League of Nations  unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
> 
> Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.
> 
> Final territory assigned to Jewish national home in 1922:
Click to expand...


Well, the Pope gave South America to Portugal and Spain.  Was it his to give?  The UN gave land in the Middle East to Europeans, was it theirs to give?  I think not.  That's why the Palestinians aren't going away and will prove as resilient as the blacks in Rhodesia and South Africa.  The Israelis better hope it goes the South African way instead of the Rhodesian way.


----------



## Indeependent

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
> If only other nations could follow suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.
Click to expand...


Let's agree on one thing right now...the correct spelling is "butt".
OK!


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
> 
> 
> 
> But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.
> 
> Fifty-one member countries  the entire League of Nations  unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
> 
> Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.
> 
> Final territory assigned to Jewish national home in 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the Pope gave South America to Portugal and Spain.  Was it his to give?  The UN gave land in the Middle East to Europeans, was it theirs to give?  I think not.  That's why the Palestinians aren't going away and will prove as resilient as the blacks in Rhodesia and South Africa.  The Israelis better hope it goes the South African way instead of the Rhodesian way.
Click to expand...


Ah!  My nearsighted friend.
Israel 2014 is intertwined with Wall Street.
That's NOT good news for the West Bank Jordanians.

If you REALLY want to get depressed about those murderers you hold so dear, check out all the brand new multi-million dollar homes in Israeli being bought up like hot cakes by Orthodox Jews.

Yep, the Lefties are so NOT the future of Israel.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
> 
> 
> 
> But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.
> 
> Fifty-one member countries &#8211; the entire League of Nations &#8211; unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
> 
> &#8220;Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.&#8221;
> 
> Final territory assigned to Jewish national home in 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the Pope gave South America to Portugal and Spain.  Was it his to give?  The UN gave land in the Middle East to Europeans, was it theirs to give?  I think not.  That's why the Palestinians aren't going away and will prove as resilient as the blacks in Rhodesia and South Africa.  The Israelis better hope it goes the South African way instead of the Rhodesian way.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha. Of course the Mandate and the remnants of the Collapsed Ottoman Empire was under the control of the British and the French, who basically carved out all those little Muslim shitholes we see today, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Pakistan, Dubai, etc.  Don't see anybody complaining about 99% of the land given to Muslims, but the ONE Jewish stste is totally unacceptable to Muslims Arabs.  Well, as they say....TOUGH SHIT.

Jewish Palestine aka Israel was voted, accepted, and ratified as the location for a Jewish Homeland, UNANIMOUSLY, by the entire 51 members of the international community.  

So your answer would be NO, the Arabs had no say in what happens to a conquered Ottoman Empire.  The land WAS NEVER theirs.  Got it? Get it?  Who cares.


----------



## Roudy

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.
> 
> Fifty-one member countries  the entire League of Nations  unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
> 
> Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.
> 
> Final territory assigned to Jewish national home in 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the Pope gave South America to Portugal and Spain.  Was it his to give?  The UN gave land in the Middle East to Europeans, was it theirs to give?  I think not.  That's why the Palestinians aren't going away and will prove as resilient as the blacks in Rhodesia and South Africa.  The Israelis better hope it goes the South African way instead of the Rhodesian way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah!  My nearsighted friend.
> Israel 2014 is intertwined with Wall Street.
> That's NOT good news for the West Bank Jordanians.
> 
> If you REALLY want to get depressed about those murderers you hold so dear, check out all the brand new multi-million dollar homes in Israeli being bought up like hot cakes by Orthodox Jews.
> 
> Yep, the Lefties are so NOT the future of Israel.
Click to expand...

You mean things are going to get even worse for MOHOMOD Latici and his gang of a Islamist goons?  Oh boy.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
> 
> 
> 
> But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.
> 
> Fifty-one member countries  the entire League of Nations  unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
> 
> Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.
> 
> Final territory assigned to Jewish national home in 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the Pope gave South America to Portugal and Spain.  Was it his to give?  The UN gave land in the Middle East to Europeans, was it theirs to give?  I think not.  That's why the Palestinians aren't going away and will prove as resilient as the blacks in Rhodesia and South Africa.  The Israelis better hope it goes the South African way instead of the Rhodesian way.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's the Palestinians who are doing the hoping.

Remember monty, having no peace deal is WAYYYY worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis.


----------



## 50_RiaL

montelatici: Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.

50_RiaL: The Jews' hold on the city is more than double that of the Arabs, who last held it in 1071 CE.  (There has been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since before the middle of the 19th Century.) 

montelatici: Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk

The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses. But, it won't be any different than Wiki. 99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians. No one questions it except Zionutters. Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:

50_RiaL:  99%, eh, guy?  That's quite a stretch.  You're readin' the wrong historians.  Harvard-trained historian Howard M. Sachar writes that from 1922-1946, 100,000 Arabs entered the country from the surrounding lands.  Winston Churchill added that, "[d]espite the fact that they were never persecuted, masses of Arabs poured into the country and multiplied until the Arab population grew more than what all of world Jewry could add to the Jewish population."  

montelatici: Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin

50_RiaL: Only a few Jews converted.  The 4th Century-born Saint Jerome who spent time in the Holy Land writes about the sorry state of the Jews there.  In the 5th Century CE, Synagogues and Jewish enclaves were burnt in pogroms at the instigation of Syrian Bishop Barsauma.  In the 7th Century CE, shortly before the Arab Muslim invasion, a coalition of Jews within and outside the Holy Land revolted against the Byzantines.  Muslim writings 'fess up to the fact that in the 7th Century CE, after Mohammad's death, Caliph Umar expelled the Jews of Khaibar in northern Arabia to -- yeah, you guessed it -- the Holy Land. 

montelatici: In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
"During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "

50_RiaL: Unbeknownst to you, you're makin' an argument for the Israeli side.  Israel has been sayin' that the bulk of the Arabs who are now callin' themselves "Palestinians" are recent arrivals and, is also in line with what Hamas Interior Minister, Fathi Hamad said in 2012: that half of Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half Saudis. 

montelatici: The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

50_RiaL: Are you sayin' the cairene Arafat was Jewish?


----------



## MJB12741

Surely everyone is aware that there were no Muslims at all until after the 7th century AD.  Thus all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations were subjected to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three of these scenarios took place. 





50_RiaL said:


> montelatici: Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> 50_RiaL: The Jews' hold on the city is more than double that of the Arabs, who last held it in 1071 CE.  (There has been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since before the middle of the 19th Century.)
> 
> montelatici: Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses. But, it won't be any different than Wiki. 99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians. No one questions it except Zionutters. Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 50_RiaL:  99%, eh, guy?  That's quite a stretch.  You're readin' the wrong historians.  Harvard-trained historian Howard M. Sachar writes that from 1922-1946, 100,000 Arabs entered the country from the surrounding lands.  Winston Churchill added that, "[d]espite the fact that they were never persecuted, masses of Arabs poured into the country and multiplied until the Arab population grew more than what all of world Jewry could add to the Jewish population."
> 
> montelatici: Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> 50_RiaL: Only a few Jews converted.  The 4th Century-born Saint Jerome who spent time in the Holy Land writes about the sorry state of the Jews there.  In the 5th Century CE, Synagogues and Jewish enclaves were burnt in pogroms at the instigation of Syrian Bishop Barsauma.  In the 7th Century CE, shortly before the Arab Muslim invasion, a coalition of Jews within and outside the Holy Land revolted against the Byzantines.  Muslim writings 'fess up to the fact that in the 7th Century CE, after Mohammad's death, Caliph Umar expelled the Jews of Khaibar in northern Arabia to -- yeah, you guessed it -- the Holy Land.
> 
> montelatici: In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 50_RiaL: Unbeknownst to you, you're makin' an argument for the Israeli side.  Israel has been sayin' that the bulk of the Arabs who are now callin' themselves "Palestinians" are recent arrivals and, is also in line with what Hamas Interior Minister, Fathi Hamad said in 2012: that half of Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half Saudis.
> 
> montelatici: The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> 50_RiaL: Are you sayin' the cairene Arafat was Jewish?


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> So the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans have to get together and write a document declaring the Jews the indisputable owners of the Land of Israel.
> Sounds good to me.


You watch too much TV.



Indeependent said:


> Actually, taking land by force has been going on without interruption for thousands of years.


Not since the end of WWII.



Indeependent said:


> I think it's time you manned up and went to the Knesset and straightened things out.
> And while you're at it, repartition the rest of the Middle East to where it was prior to WWI.


I think its time you manned up to the fact the rest of the world thinks you're full of shit!



> _*The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law*, but Israel maintains that they are consistent with international law because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War. *The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply*.
> 
> *Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979 and 1980. *UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared *the settlements illegal as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice and the International Committee of the Red Cross*.
> 
> The position of successive Israeli governments is that all authorized settlements are entirely legal and consistent with international law, despite Israel's armistice agreements having all being with High Contracting Parties. In practice, Israel does not accept that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies de jure, but has stated that on humanitarian issues it will govern itself de facto by its provisions, without specifying which these are. *The majority of legal scholars hold the settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position._


It's time you and all your Israeli butt-buddy kiss-asses, stop being children, grow up (and a pair) and embrace the horror, that the entire planet thinks you're fucked!


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.


Do you admire Hitler and his ridding of neighborhoods to?




Indeependent said:


> If only other nations could follow suit.


Other nations consider the Final Solution wrong for humanity.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> You mean after the Arabs invaded the region pre 1948, in the early 1900.   That's just a map of the areas the Arabs invaded  : cuckoo:


Here's the official migration records for that period, numbnuts, so you lose again.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Arab land either dipshit.  Not for at least 700 years.  Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!
Click to expand...





 So where are the names of the owners for those plots of land, all you have produced is a map that has been overlaid with false details. Did you read the legend in the top left corner that details just what this was.

 " Prepared on the instruction of sub committee 2 of the ad hoc committee on the Palestinian question"

 Where are the notes and minutes of this sub committee to go with the map explaining just what is meant by the details. This map has been shown to be the work of the ANTI SEMITIC British Government because they hated the Jews so much. Did you know that in some cases the British mass murdered more Jews that the Nazi's did.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
> If only other nations could follow suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
Click to expand...





 Deflecting again and trying to railroad the topic away from ISLAMIC EXCESSES AHND VIOLENCE.   Even with odds of 20 to 1 the cowards cant beat Israel


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you may call the indigenous people murderers, but the Europeans did a far better job in the Americas.  In Chile and Argentina, they eliminated nearly 100% of the indigenous people, in the U.S. we put eliminated quite a few of them and put the rest in reservation.  And then the Australians they really did a job on the Aborigines.
> 
> But the Palestinians have proven to be as resilient as the blacks in South Africa and like the blacks in South Africa they have hundreds of millions of other Arabs all around them.
> 
> 
> 
> But but but my ass the land never belonged to them.
> 
> Fifty-one member countries  the entire League of Nations  unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
> 
> Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.
> 
> Final territory assigned to Jewish national home in 1922:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the Pope gave South America to Portugal and Spain.  Was it his to give?  The UN gave land in the Middle East to Europeans, was it theirs to give?  I think not.  That's why the Palestinians aren't going away and will prove as resilient as the blacks in Rhodesia and South Africa.  The Israelis better hope it goes the South African way instead of the Rhodesian way.
Click to expand...




Was it arab muslim to steal, I KNOW FOR A FACT IT WAS NOT. It was League of Nations land singed over to them in a treaty by the Ottoman Empire after WW1 in reparation for joining the war on the side of Germany. I note you say nothing about the LoN/UN giving Palestinian land to Saudi thieves in Syria and Jordan. Nor about giving Indian land to muslims and creating the islamic nations of  Pakistan and Bangladesh. How many Islamic nations have been formed on land stolen from the indigenous peoples in your short lifetime, as I know of at least 4 in mine.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans have to get together and write a document declaring the Jews the indisputable owners of the Land of Israel.
> Sounds good to me.
> 
> 
> 
> You watch too much TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, taking land by force has been going on without interruption for thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not since the end of WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's time you manned up and went to the Knesset and straightened things out.
> And while you're at it, repartition the rest of the Middle East to where it was prior to WWI.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think its time you manned up to the fact the rest of the world thinks you're full of shit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law*, but Israel maintains that they are consistent with international law because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War. *The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply*.
> 
> *Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979 and 1980. *UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared *the settlements illegal as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice and the International Committee of the Red Cross*.
> 
> The position of successive Israeli governments is that all authorized settlements are entirely legal and consistent with international law, despite Israel's armistice agreements having all being with High Contracting Parties. In practice, Israel does not accept that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies de jure, but has stated that on humanitarian issues it will govern itself de facto by its provisions, without specifying which these are. *The majority of legal scholars hold the settlements to violate international law*, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's time you and all your Israeli butt-buddy kiss-asses, stop being children, grow up (and a pair) and embrace the horror, that the entire planet thinks you're fucked!
Click to expand...





 So what about Pakistan, Bangladesh, Darfur, Somalia, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia to name but a few ISLAMONAZI land thefts from violence and terrorist force.

 So once again you are denying the Jews the right of return

 Also the Palestinians signed away the settlement areas in Oslo and as Abbas stated only last week Oslo is still in existence.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you admire Hitler and his ridding of neighborhoods to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> If only other nations could follow suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Other nations consider the Final Solution wrong for humanity.
Click to expand...





 So when did your hero Hitler rid his neighbourhoods of murderers, another comparison that is false.


 But not when it is the muslims trying it on the Jews .

 Now about the mass murders done by the Jordanians against the Palestinians, why don't you complain about that atrocity. After all the killed more innocents in one month that Israel has managed in 67 years


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> So what about Pakistan, Bangladesh, Darfur, Somalia, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia to name but a few ISLAMONAZI land thefts from violence and terrorist force.
> 
> So once again you are denying the Jews the right of return
> 
> Also the Palestinians signed away the settlement areas in Oslo and as Abbas stated only last week Oslo is still in existence.


Abbas is nothing but an   Israeli bitch, doing what he's told, like a good little whore.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean after the Arabs invaded the region pre 1948, in the early 1900.   That's just a map of the areas the Arabs invaded  : cuckoo:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the official migration records for that period, numbnuts, so you lose again.
Click to expand...




 So were are the figures from 1929 to 2014 then, or do they show massive arab muslim migrations and a reduction in the Jewish numbers overall


----------



## MrMax

As far as I can tell, the Jews were the first ones kicked out of the area, making their return totally legitimate. Sort of like if the American Indians took their land back and we were the Palestinians kicked off "our" land, who were then pissed.


----------



## MJB12741

You bring up a very valid point.  Jordan massacred around 20,000 Palestinians during Black September & has ANYONE seen or heard of a single complaint from any Palestinian or their supporters?

Israel makes peace offerings to the Palestinians, builds a security fence & concedes land to the Palestinians so they can continue to squat in Israel & has ANYONE ever seen or heard of a thank you to Israel from any Palestinian or Palestinian supporter?

It's called Palestinian Mentality.






Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to admire so few Jews ridding their neighborhoods of so many murderers in so few decades.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you admire Hitler and his ridding of neighborhoods to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> If only other nations could follow suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Other nations consider the Final Solution wrong for humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So when did your hero Hitler rid his neighbourhoods of murderers, another comparison that is false.
> 
> 
> But not when it is the muslims trying it on the Jews .
> 
> Now about the mass murders done by the Jordanians against the Palestinians, why don't you complain about that atrocity. After all the killed more innocents in one month that Israel has managed in 67 years
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

50_RiaL said:


> montelatici: Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> 50_RiaL: The Jews' hold on the city is more than double that of the Arabs, who last held it in 1071 CE.  (There has been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since before the middle of the 19th Century.)
> 
> montelatici: Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses. But, it won't be any different than Wiki. 99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians. No one questions it except Zionutters. Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 50_RiaL:  99%, eh, guy?  That's quite a stretch.  You're readin' the wrong historians.  Harvard-trained historian Howard M. Sachar writes that from 1922-1946, 100,000 Arabs entered the country from the surrounding lands.  Winston Churchill added that, "[d]espite the fact that they were never persecuted, masses of Arabs poured into the country and multiplied until the Arab population grew more than what all of world Jewry could add to the Jewish population."
> 
> montelatici: Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> 50_RiaL: Only a few Jews converted.  The 4th Century-born Saint Jerome who spent time in the Holy Land writes about the sorry state of the Jews there.  In the 5th Century CE, Synagogues and Jewish enclaves were burnt in pogroms at the instigation of Syrian Bishop Barsauma.  In the 7th Century CE, shortly before the Arab Muslim invasion, a coalition of Jews within and outside the Holy Land revolted against the Byzantines.  Muslim writings 'fess up to the fact that in the 7th Century CE, after Mohammad's death, Caliph Umar expelled the Jews of Khaibar in northern Arabia to -- yeah, you guessed it -- the Holy Land.
> 
> montelatici: In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 50_RiaL: Unbeknownst to you, you're makin' an argument for the Israeli side.  Israel has been sayin' that the bulk of the Arabs who are now callin' themselves "Palestinians" are recent arrivals and, is also in line with what Hamas Interior Minister, Fathi Hamad said in 2012: that half of Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half Saudis.
> 
> montelatici: The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> 50_RiaL: Are you sayin' the cairene Arafat was Jewish?



A book in arabic "Yasser Arafat and the Zionist solution to the conflict in Palestine", written by Razi Hussein, the PLO's legal and political secretary, more than a decade ago suggested Arafat was part jewish.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> 50_RiaL said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici: Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> 50_RiaL: The Jews' hold on the city is more than double that of the Arabs, who last held it in 1071 CE.  (There has been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since before the middle of the 19th Century.)
> 
> montelatici: Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses. But, it won't be any different than Wiki. 99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians. No one questions it except Zionutters. Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 50_RiaL:  99%, eh, guy?  That's quite a stretch.  You're readin' the wrong historians.  Harvard-trained historian Howard M. Sachar writes that from 1922-1946, 100,000 Arabs entered the country from the surrounding lands.  Winston Churchill added that, "[d]espite the fact that they were never persecuted, masses of Arabs poured into the country and multiplied until the Arab population grew more than what all of world Jewry could add to the Jewish population."
> 
> montelatici: Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> 50_RiaL: Only a few Jews converted.  The 4th Century-born Saint Jerome who spent time in the Holy Land writes about the sorry state of the Jews there.  In the 5th Century CE, Synagogues and Jewish enclaves were burnt in pogroms at the instigation of Syrian Bishop Barsauma.  In the 7th Century CE, shortly before the Arab Muslim invasion, a coalition of Jews within and outside the Holy Land revolted against the Byzantines.  Muslim writings 'fess up to the fact that in the 7th Century CE, after Mohammad's death, Caliph Umar expelled the Jews of Khaibar in northern Arabia to -- yeah, you guessed it -- the Holy Land.
> 
> montelatici: In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 50_RiaL: Unbeknownst to you, you're makin' an argument for the Israeli side.  Israel has been sayin' that the bulk of the Arabs who are now callin' themselves "Palestinians" are recent arrivals and, is also in line with what Hamas Interior Minister, Fathi Hamad said in 2012: that half of Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half Saudis.
> 
> montelatici: The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> 50_RiaL: Are you sayin' the cairene Arafat was Jewish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A book in arabic "Yasser Arafat and the Zionist solution to the conflict in Palestine", written by Razi Hussein, the PLO's legal and political secretary, more than a decade ago suggested Arafat was part jewish.
Click to expand...


It stands to reason that many (if not most) of the current Palestinians had Jewish ancestors who then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam.


----------



## aris2chat

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Arab land either dipshit.  Not for at least 700 years.  Now you know.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's the official land records from 1948, you disgusting dumbass!
Click to expand...


Part of that green land was actually owned by the Mehmed VI, not by private citizens.  Land owned by, or given by the sultan, was sold.  Egyptians, Lebanon, Syrians, even arabs in the mandate sold land to the jews.  Land owners who did not live in or no longer wanted to stay sold the land at higher than market price.

Your map does not tell the whole story.


----------



## MJB12741

Now THAT'S funny.  See that you Zionists, the Palestinians are Jews of Jewish ancestry.  Amazing what we can learn here.  Go tell your neighbors.  Heh Heh!




montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50_RiaL said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici: Israel and Jerusalem have not always belonged to the Jews. The Phoenician Caanites founded and ruled Jerusalem from about 2,500 BC to 1,000 BC when the Jews invaded and conquered the city. So the Jews ruled the city for less than 1,000 years.
> 
> 50_RiaL: The Jews' hold on the city is more than double that of the Arabs, who last held it in 1071 CE.  (There has been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since before the middle of the 19th Century.)
> 
> montelatici: Canaanite Phoenician Jerusalem, Urushalim, The City Founded by Shalem, Phoenician God of Dusk
> 
> The Encyclopedia Britanica pay per view, I certainly am not going to pay money to educate you ignoramuses. But, it won't be any different than Wiki. 99% of Middle East historians will tell you the same thing, that the Palestinians are for the most part converted Christians. No one questions it except Zionutters. Even historians like this Katz guy, who is Jewish, write the same thing:
> 
> 50_RiaL:  99%, eh, guy?  That's quite a stretch.  You're readin' the wrong historians.  Harvard-trained historian Howard M. Sachar writes that from 1922-1946, 100,000 Arabs entered the country from the surrounding lands.  Winston Churchill added that, "[d]espite the fact that they were never persecuted, masses of Arabs poured into the country and multiplied until the Arab population grew more than what all of world Jewry could add to the Jewish population."
> 
> montelatici: Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin
> 
> 50_RiaL: Only a few Jews converted.  The 4th Century-born Saint Jerome who spent time in the Holy Land writes about the sorry state of the Jews there.  In the 5th Century CE, Synagogues and Jewish enclaves were burnt in pogroms at the instigation of Syrian Bishop Barsauma.  In the 7th Century CE, shortly before the Arab Muslim invasion, a coalition of Jews within and outside the Holy Land revolted against the Byzantines.  Muslim writings 'fess up to the fact that in the 7th Century CE, after Mohammad's death, Caliph Umar expelled the Jews of Khaibar in northern Arabia to -- yeah, you guessed it -- the Holy Land.
> 
> montelatici: In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found that
> "During the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garnisons... "
> 
> 50_RiaL: Unbeknownst to you, you're makin' an argument for the Israeli side.  Israel has been sayin' that the bulk of the Arabs who are now callin' themselves "Palestinians" are recent arrivals and, is also in line with what Hamas Interior Minister, Fathi Hamad said in 2012: that half of Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half Saudis.
> 
> montelatici: The "vast majority" remaining in Palestine was "native Christians," of "mixed origin ... carelessly known as Christian Arabs."
> 
> Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
> 
> 50_RiaL: Are you sayin' the cairene Arafat was Jewish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A book in arabic "Yasser Arafat and the Zionist solution to the conflict in Palestine", written by Razi Hussein, the PLO's legal and political secretary, more than a decade ago suggested Arafat was part jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It stands to reason that many (if not most) of the current Palestinians had Jewish ancestors who then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam.
Click to expand...


----------



## Darkwind

Billo_Really said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
Click to expand...

Um.  Try again.


----------



## aris2chat

MJB12741 said:


> Now THAT'S funny.  See that you Zionists, the Palestinians are Jews of Jewish ancestry.  Amazing what we can learn here.  Go tell your neighbors.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> A book in arabic "Yasser Arafat and the Zionist solution to the conflict in Palestine", written by Razi Hussein, the PLO's legal and political secretary, more than a decade ago suggested Arafat was part jewish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It stands to reason that many (if not most) of the current Palestinians had Jewish ancestors who then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


and at the same time they want to deny the history of the jews in Israel and especially Jerusalem.


----------



## MJB12741

It is so funny.  First they were direct descendents of Summerians.  Then it was Akkadians.  Then it was Philistines.  Then it was Caananites.  And now they are direct descendents of the Jews.  Good grief, what next for who are the Palestinisns?  Stay tuned.  Heh Heh.





aris2chat said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT'S funny.  See that you Zionists, the Palestinians are Jews of Jewish ancestry.  Amazing what we can learn here.  Go tell your neighbors.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It stands to reason that many (if not most) of the current Palestinians had Jewish ancestors who then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and at the same time they want to deny the history of the jews in Israel and especially Jerusalem.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

Darkwind said:


> Um.  Try again.


No need to, I was right the first time.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um.  Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> No need to, I was right the first time.
Click to expand...

You are never right, just very ignorant about the history of the region, and extremely obnoxious.


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> Part of that green land was actually owned by the Mehmed VI, not by private citizens.  Land owned by, or given by the sultan, was sold.  Egyptians, Lebanon, Syrians, even arabs in the mandate sold land to the jews.  Land owners who did not live in or no longer wanted to stay sold the land at higher than market price.
> 
> Your map does not tell the whole story.


I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> You are never right, just very ignorant about the history of the region, and extremely obnoxious.


You're no one to tell others they're obnoxious.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are never right, just very ignorant about the history of the region, and extremely obnoxious.
> 
> 
> 
> You're no one to tell others they're obnoxious.
Click to expand...

  look who's talking.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Part of that green land was actually owned by the Mehmed VI, not by private citizens.  Land owned by, or given by the sultan, was sold.  Egyptians, Lebanon, Syrians, even arabs in the mandate sold land to the jews.  Land owners who did not live in or no longer wanted to stay sold the land at higher than market price.
> 
> Your map does not tell the whole story.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.
Click to expand...




 So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Part of that green land was actually owned by the Mehmed VI, not by private citizens.  Land owned by, or given by the sultan, was sold.  Egyptians, Lebanon, Syrians, even arabs in the mandate sold land to the jews.  Land owners who did not live in or no longer wanted to stay sold the land at higher than market price.
> 
> Your map does not tell the whole story.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
Click to expand...


Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.



What should they have done, passed out smallpox infected blankets like your ancestors did?


----------



## Billo_Really

MrMax said:


> What should they have done, passed out smallpox infected blankets like your ancestors did?


How about treating them with respect and living as peaceful neighbors, just like their ancestors did?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> look who's talking.


Sorry, never saw that movie.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> What should they have done, passed out smallpox infected blankets like your ancestors did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about treating them with respect and living as peaceful neighbors, just like their ancestors did?
Click to expand...


They belief it's their religious right to kill my people.

*How dare I not respect them*


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."
Click to expand...

It sure as hell wasn't an Arab town.  Arabs committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of  Hebron, and decades later have invaded it and now call it their own.  The Hebron massacre is what started the civil war between the Jews and Arabs, which eventually the Jews won.

True story


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It sure as hell wasn't an Arab town.  Arabs committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of  Hebron, and decades later have invaded it and now call it their own.  The Hebron massacre is what started the civil war between the Jews and Arabs, which eventually the Jews won.
> 
> True story
Click to expand...


Some Jews and others owned homes in Hebron. It wasn't exclusively Jewish owned.



> True story



Pffft!


----------



## MJB12741

Yes!  Right on.  Those damn Zionists should stop provoking the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians with their peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel & start treating them with the same Arab country love, justice & respect they are so well accustomed to.  And so well deserve.





Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> What should they have done, passed out smallpox infected blankets like your ancestors did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about treating them with respect and living as peaceful neighbors, just like their ancestors did?
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."
Click to expand...




 It was and was stolen by violent means from them by the muslims

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebron.html

 Hebron (Al-Khalil in Arabic) is located 32 kilometers south of Jerusalem and is built on several hills and wadis, most of which run north- to-south. The Hebrew word "Hebron" is explained as being derived from the Hebrew word for "friend" ("haver"), a description for the Patriarch Abraham. The Arabic "Al- Khalil," literally "the friend," has a nearly identical derivation and also refers to Abraham (Ibrahim), whom Muslims similarly describe as the friend of God. Hebron is one of the oldest continually occupied cities in the world, and has been a major focus of religious worship for over two millenia. 

Hebron has a long and rich Jewish history and is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world. The Book of Genesis relates that Abraham purchased the field where the Tomb of the Patriarchs is located as a burial place for his wife Sarah. According to Jewish tradition, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as well the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, and Leah are all buried in the Tomb. 

 The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533

 Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note

 Following the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, and the invasion by Arab armies, Hebron was captured and occupied by the Jordanian Arab Legion. During the Jordanian occupation, which lasted until 1967, Jews were not permitted to live in the city, nor -- despite the Armistice Agreement -- to visit or pray at the Jewish holy sites in the city. Additionally, the Jordanian authorities and local residents undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate any evidence of the Jewish presence in the city. They razed the Jewish Quarter, desecrated the Jewish cemetery and built an animal pen on the ruins of the Avraham Avinu synagogue


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> What should they have done, passed out smallpox infected blankets like your ancestors did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about treating them with respect and living as peaceful neighbors, just like their ancestors did?
Click to expand...




 Every history book disagrees with your version of reality, and says that the Jews were treated as less that dogs. They were beaten and abused every tine they went to pay their Jizya taxes, forced into demeaning themselves by walking in the gutters and were faced with murder and rape for the smallest of crimes. They were forbidden to wear certain clothes, and had to wear distinguishing items of clothing so that everyone could see they were dhimmi. They could not practise their religion openly, or repair their synagogues and many times these were used as communal toilets by the arab muslims. What you refer to is the ISLAMONAZI LIES and FABRICATIONS meant to fool the gullible and semi literate.


----------



## Phoenall

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> What should they have done, passed out smallpox infected blankets like your ancestors did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about treating them with respect and living as peaceful neighbors, just like their ancestors did?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They belief it's their religious right to kill my people.
> 
> *How dare I not respect them*
Click to expand...




 They are commanded by their paedophile prophet and his moon god to "KILL ALL THE JEWS" after the tribe at medina refused to worship him as a god.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was and was stolen by violent means from them by the muslims
> 
> https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebron.html
> 
> Hebron (Al-Khalil in Arabic) is located 32 kilometers south of Jerusalem and is built on several hills and wadis, most of which run north- to-south. The Hebrew word "Hebron" is explained as being derived from the Hebrew word for "friend" ("haver"), a description for the Patriarch Abraham. The Arabic "Al- Khalil," literally "the friend," has a nearly identical derivation and also refers to Abraham (Ibrahim), whom Muslims similarly describe as the friend of God. Hebron is one of the oldest continually occupied cities in the world, and has been a major focus of religious worship for over two millenia.
> 
> Hebron has a long and rich Jewish history and is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world. The Book of Genesis relates that Abraham purchased the field where the Tomb of the Patriarchs is located as a burial place for his wife Sarah. According to Jewish tradition, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as well the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, and Leah are all buried in the Tomb.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note
> 
> Following the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, and the invasion by Arab armies, Hebron was captured and occupied by the Jordanian Arab Legion. During the Jordanian occupation, which lasted until 1967, Jews were not permitted to live in the city, nor -- despite the Armistice Agreement -- to visit or pray at the Jewish holy sites in the city. Additionally, the Jordanian authorities and local residents undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate any evidence of the Jewish presence in the city. They razed the Jewish Quarter, desecrated the Jewish cemetery and built an animal pen on the ruins of the Avraham Avinu synagogue
Click to expand...


Jewish Virtual Library HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You have to be kidding.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."
> 
> 
> 
> It sure as hell wasn't an Arab town.  Arabs committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of  Hebron, and decades later have invaded it and now call it their own.  The Hebron massacre is what started the civil war between the Jews and Arabs, which eventually the Jews won.
> 
> True story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some Jews and others owned homes in Hebron. It wasn't exclusively Jewish owned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pffft!
Click to expand...





 It wasn't arab muslim owned in 1948 when the Jordanian forces ethnically cleansed all of the west bank of its Jewish indigenous inhabitants


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> What should they have done, passed out smallpox infected blankets like your ancestors did?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about treating them with respect and living as peaceful neighbors, just like their ancestors did?
Click to expand...


Just like the Arabs treated the Jews with respect ?

Care to tell us Billo who started with the attacking and killing? 
I'm talking about from 1890's and up.


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Part of that green land was actually owned by the Mehmed VI, not by private citizens.  Land owned by, or given by the sultan, was sold.  Egyptians, Lebanon, Syrians, even arabs in the mandate sold land to the jews.  Land owners who did not live in or no longer wanted to stay sold the land at higher than market price.
> 
> Your map does not tell the whole story.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
Click to expand...


First, most of the land of Hebron was not privately owned.
Second, Egypt and then Jordan occupied Hebron till 1967.  Many left to live in Jerusalem instead rather than pay the high taxes being imposed.


----------



## MJB12741

The first documented massacre to start this Israeli/Palestinian conflict was the Hebron Massace of the Jews by Palestinians even before 1948.


1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






aris2chat said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about land that was sold, I'm talking about land that was taken through the use of Jewish terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First, most of the land of Hebron was not privately owned.
> Second, Egypt and then Jordan occupied Hebron till 1967.  Many left to live in Jerusalem instead rather than pay the high taxes being imposed.
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

MJB12741 said:


> The first documented massacre to start this Israeli/Palestinian conflict was the Hebron Massace of the Jews by Palestinians even before 1948.
> 
> 
> 1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, most of the land of Hebron was not privately owned.
> Second, Egypt and then Jordan occupied Hebron till 1967.  Many left to live in Jerusalem instead rather than pay the high taxes being imposed.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Actually you can go back to 1834 Safed.  You can go back further to 1491, 1479, 1516, 1579, 1586, 1625, 1660, 1775, 1799, 1820, .....I'm sure you get the idea.  Most of these were around safed or jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the land that was taken through the use of Islamic terrorism, start with Hebron that was owned by the Jews in 1929.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was and was stolen by violent means from them by the muslims
> 
> https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebron.html
> 
> Hebron (Al-Khalil in Arabic) is located 32 kilometers south of Jerusalem and is built on several hills and wadis, most of which run north- to-south. The Hebrew word "Hebron" is explained as being derived from the Hebrew word for "friend" ("haver"), a description for the Patriarch Abraham. The Arabic "Al- Khalil," literally "the friend," has a nearly identical derivation and also refers to Abraham (Ibrahim), whom Muslims similarly describe as the friend of God. Hebron is one of the oldest continually occupied cities in the world, and has been a major focus of religious worship for over two millenia.
> 
> Hebron has a long and rich Jewish history and is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world. The Book of Genesis relates that Abraham purchased the field where the Tomb of the Patriarchs is located as a burial place for his wife Sarah. According to Jewish tradition, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as well the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, and Leah are all buried in the Tomb.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note
> 
> Following the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, and the invasion by Arab armies, Hebron was captured and occupied by the Jordanian Arab Legion. During the Jordanian occupation, which lasted until 1967, Jews were not permitted to live in the city, nor -- despite the Armistice Agreement -- to visit or pray at the Jewish holy sites in the city. Additionally, the Jordanian authorities and local residents undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate any evidence of the Jewish presence in the city. They razed the Jewish Quarter, desecrated the Jewish cemetery and built an animal pen on the ruins of the Avraham Avinu synagogue
Click to expand...


Interesting, but it does not refute my post.


----------



## Hossfly

MJB12741 said:


> Let us consider the facts.  Fair enough?
> 
> http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/01/09/palestinians-invented-people/


Here's the Palestinians protecting the Temple Mount from invaders.

When a group of easily identifiable religious Jews is actually allowed to ascend Jerusalems Temple Mount, the reaction of Muslim worshippers typically borders on open violence.

Jews (and Christians) are often prevented by Israeli police from entering the Temple Mount compound for fear of Muslim hostility. And even when groups are granted entry, most are not easily identifiable as Jews (most Orthodox Jews believe it is wrong to ascend the Temple Mount lest they inadvertently enter the area of the Holy of Holies).

But every once in a while, an Orthodox Jewish group will visit Judaisms holiest site. And when they do, the Jews treatment at the hands of the adherents of the so-called Religion of Peace is simply disgraceful.


VIDEO: What Jews Endure on the Temple Mount - Israel Today | Israel News


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let us consider the facts.  Fair enough?
> 
> http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/01/09/palestinians-invented-people/
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the Palestinians protecting the Temple Mount from invaders.
> 
> When a group of easily identifiable religious Jews is actually allowed to ascend Jerusalems Temple Mount, the reaction of Muslim worshippers typically borders on open violence.
> 
> Jews (and Christians) are often prevented by Israeli police from entering the Temple Mount compound for fear of Muslim hostility. And even when groups are granted entry, most are not easily identifiable as Jews (most Orthodox Jews believe it is wrong to ascend the Temple Mount lest they inadvertently enter the area of the Holy of Holies).
> 
> But every once in a while, an Orthodox Jewish group will visit Judaisms holiest site. And when they do, the Jews treatment at the hands of the adherents of the so-called Religion of Peace is simply disgraceful.
> 
> 
> VIDEO: What Jews Endure on the Temple Mount - Israel Today | Israel News
Click to expand...


Omar, Saladin and Suleiman invited the jews to the mount, but those who are intolerant want to incite fear and anger by making people think that the presence of jews on the mount will somehow contaminate the sites so muslims can no long pray there.

Such silliness actually turns violent and perpetuates animosity between the groups.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not "owned by the Jews."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was and was stolen by violent means from them by the muslims
> 
> https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebron.html
> 
> Hebron (Al-Khalil in Arabic) is located 32 kilometers south of Jerusalem and is built on several hills and wadis, most of which run north- to-south. The Hebrew word "Hebron" is explained as being derived from the Hebrew word for "friend" ("haver"), a description for the Patriarch Abraham. The Arabic "Al- Khalil," literally "the friend," has a nearly identical derivation and also refers to Abraham (Ibrahim), whom Muslims similarly describe as the friend of God. Hebron is one of the oldest continually occupied cities in the world, and has been a major focus of religious worship for over two millenia.
> 
> Hebron has a long and rich Jewish history and is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world. The Book of Genesis relates that Abraham purchased the field where the Tomb of the Patriarchs is located as a burial place for his wife Sarah. According to Jewish tradition, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as well the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, and Leah are all buried in the Tomb.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note
> 
> Following the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, and the invasion by Arab armies, Hebron was captured and occupied by the Jordanian Arab Legion. During the Jordanian occupation, which lasted until 1967, Jews were not permitted to live in the city, nor -- despite the Armistice Agreement -- to visit or pray at the Jewish holy sites in the city. Additionally, the Jordanian authorities and local residents undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate any evidence of the Jewish presence in the city. They razed the Jewish Quarter, desecrated the Jewish cemetery and built an animal pen on the ruins of the Avraham Avinu synagogue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, but it does not refute my post.
Click to expand...




 But it does if you read it, just as it refutes the LIE that arab muslims owned Palestine. Did you know that from sheer greed the arab muslims refused to file title because it would lead to taxation and conscription.


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> The first documented massacre to start this Israeli/Palestinian conflict was the Hebron Massace of the Jews by Palestinians even before 1948.
> 
> 1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Thank you for proving the violence didn't start, until after the Zionist migration at the turn of the century.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was and was stolen by violent means from them by the muslims
> 
> https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebron.html
> 
> Hebron (Al-Khalil in Arabic) is located 32 kilometers south of Jerusalem and is built on several hills and wadis, most of which run north- to-south. The Hebrew word "Hebron" is explained as being derived from the Hebrew word for "friend" ("haver"), a description for the Patriarch Abraham. The Arabic "Al- Khalil," literally "the friend," has a nearly identical derivation and also refers to Abraham (Ibrahim), whom Muslims similarly describe as the friend of God. Hebron is one of the oldest continually occupied cities in the world, and has been a major focus of religious worship for over two millenia.
> 
> Hebron has a long and rich Jewish history and is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world. The Book of Genesis relates that Abraham purchased the field where the Tomb of the Patriarchs is located as a burial place for his wife Sarah. According to Jewish tradition, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as well the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, and Leah are all buried in the Tomb.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note
> 
> Following the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, and the invasion by Arab armies, Hebron was captured and occupied by the Jordanian Arab Legion. During the Jordanian occupation, which lasted until 1967, Jews were not permitted to live in the city, nor -- despite the Armistice Agreement -- to visit or pray at the Jewish holy sites in the city. Additionally, the Jordanian authorities and local residents undertook a systematic campaign to eliminate any evidence of the Jewish presence in the city. They razed the Jewish Quarter, desecrated the Jewish cemetery and built an animal pen on the ruins of the Avraham Avinu synagogue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, but it does not refute my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it does if you read it, just as it refutes the LIE that arab muslims owned Palestine. Did you know that from sheer greed the arab muslims refused to file title because it would lead to taxation and conscription.
Click to expand...


You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first documented massacre to start this Israeli/Palestinian conflict was the Hebron Massace of the Jews by Palestinians even before 1948.
> 
> 1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving the violence didn't start, until after the Zionist migration at the turn of the century.
Click to expand...

Hello idiot, stop shoving your foot in your mouth.  The Arabs slaughtered the Ancient Jews of Hebron who had been there since before the Crusades.  How about the occupying Arab animals leave Hebron and give Jews what's been theirs for centuries?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, but it does not refute my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it does if you read it, just as it refutes the LIE that arab muslims owned Palestine. Did you know that from sheer greed the arab muslims refused to file title because it would lead to taxation and conscription.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
Click to expand...

Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it does if you read it, just as it refutes the LIE that arab muslims owned Palestine. Did you know that from sheer greed the arab muslims refused to file title because it would lead to taxation and conscription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


I hear that some of the Muslims in Hebron hid their Jewish friends in their homes saving many.

Apparently you are incorrect in calling Hebron a Jewish city.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it does if you read it, just as it refutes the LIE that arab muslims owned Palestine. Did you know that from sheer greed the arab muslims refused to file title because it would lead to taxation and conscription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hear that some of the Muslims in Hebron hid their Jewish friends in their homes saving many.
> 
> Apparently you are incorrect in calling Hebron a Jewish city.
Click to expand...

Yes, some Germans also hid Jews too.  That didn't wash what the Nazis did.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
Click to expand...

No not after the Muslim invasions, and subsequently after Muslims committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on Jews in 1929.  The animals did that because Hebron was KNOWN to be a Jewish city with ancient Judaic roots.  The Tomb of Patriarchs is not a Muslim holy site, idiot.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No not after the Muslim invasions, and subsequently after Muslims committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on Jews in 1929.  The animals did that because Hebron was KNOWN to be a Jewish city with ancient Judaic roots.  The Tomb of Patriarchs is not a Muslim holy site, idiot.
Click to expand...


Prior to the Muslim invasions it was a Christian city.


----------



## MrMax

Palestinians are a low level form of arabs, that even other Arabs won't help.


----------



## MJB12741

That is so true.  The Arab country treatment of massacring their Palestinians & driving them out as refugees is hard to forgive.  And yet NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT IT from the Palestinians or their supporters.  When will Israel ever learn from the Arab countries how to deal with Palestinians? 





MrMax said:


> Palestinians are a low level form of arabs, that even other Arabs won't help.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, but it does not refute my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it does if you read it, just as it refutes the LIE that arab muslims owned Palestine. Did you know that from sheer greed the arab muslims refused to file title because it would lead to taxation and conscription.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
Click to expand...





 Yes Ottoman landlords that rented out the homes to anyone, the Jews owned their own homes.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hear that some of the Muslims in Hebron hid their Jewish friends in their homes saving many.
> 
> Apparently you are incorrect in calling Hebron a Jewish city.
Click to expand...





 Isolated incidents


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
Click to expand...





 Evidence from an unbiased source please, or retract your falsehood


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> hebron was not a jewish city at all.
> 
> 
> 
> no not after the muslim invasions, and subsequently after muslims committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on jews in 1929.  The animals did that because hebron was known to be a jewish city with ancient judaic roots.  The tomb of patriarchs is not a muslim holy site, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> prior to the muslim invasions it was a christian city.
Click to expand...





 liar


----------



## MJB12741

How do ya like that?  And here I actually believed Hebron is the second holiest city in all of Israel, home of the cave of Machpelah where even the Jewish patriarchs are buried.  Amazing what we can learn here.  Please excuse me while I go tell my neighbors what we just learned.




montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to imply that because some Jews owned homes there that it was "Jewish owned" land. You neglected to mention that other people owned homes there too.
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

MrMax said:


> Palestinians are a low level form of arabs, that even other Arabs won't help.


Arabs / Muslims don't help anybody period, not even themselves.  Too busy killing.

  But you're right, no Arab country wants them because they are nothing but trouble.  Look what they did in Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. 

In Lebanon alone they killed 150,000 Christian Lebanese, all the Palestinians that had been let in graciously by the Kuwaiti govt. for work or temporary residency ended up helping and siding with Sadam in his invasion of Kuwait.  They were all booted out by the Kuwaitis, once the Americans got Kuwait back.  Even in the Cold War they sided with Russia.  Palestinians have a habit of making bad choices.


----------



## Roudy

MJB12741 said:


> How do ya like that?  And here I actually believed Hebron is the second holiest city in all of Israel, home of the cave of Machpelah where even the Jewish patriarchs are buried.  Amazing what we can learn here.  Please excuse me while I go tell my neighbors what we just learned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Oh didn't you know?  Abraham, Issac, Jacob were all Muslims and didn't even know it!  

Even Jesus was a Muslim and didn't know it.


----------



## MJB12741

Hmmm!  A Muslim king of Israel.  Don't that beat all?  Heh Heh.






Roudy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do ya like that?  And here I actually believed Hebron is the second holiest city in all of Israel, home of the cave of Machpelah where even the Jewish patriarchs are buried.  Amazing what we can learn here.  Please excuse me while I go tell my neighbors what we just learned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh didn't you know?  Abraham, Issac, Jacob were all Muslims and didn't even know it!
> 
> Even Jesus was a Muslim and didn't know it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Just like the Arabs treated the Jews with respect ?
> 
> Care to tell us Billo who started with the attacking and killing?
> I'm talking about from 1890's and up.


I'll let a famous Zionist humanist, answer that one...



> _"Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination."*
> 
> -  Ahad Ha'am _


Do the math!


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> They belief it's their religious right to kill my people.
> 
> *How dare I not respect them*


That's just you lying to yourself, because you don't have the guts to deal with the truth.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Every history book disagrees with your version of reality, and says that the Jews were treated as less that dogs. They were beaten and abused every tine they went to pay their Jizya taxes, forced into demeaning themselves by walking in the gutters and were faced with murder and rape for the smallest of crimes. They were forbidden to wear certain clothes, and had to wear distinguishing items of clothing so that everyone could see they were dhimmi. They could not practise their religion openly, or repair their synagogues and many times these were used as communal toilets by the arab muslims. What you refer to is the ISLAMONAZI LIES and FABRICATIONS meant to fool the gullible and semi literate.


Where's your link to that history book?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Hello idiot, stop shoving your foot in your mouth.  The Arabs slaughtered the Ancient Jews of Hebron who had been there since before the Crusades.  How about the occupying Arab animals leave Hebron and give Jews what's been theirs for centuries?


How about a little evidence to back up that garbage prose?


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just like the Arabs treated the Jews with respect ?
> 
> Care to tell us Billo who started with the attacking and killing?
> I'm talking about from 1890's and up.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll let a famous Zionist humanist, answer that one...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination."*
> 
> -  Ahad Ha'am _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do the math!
Click to expand...


How the fuck does that answer my question: who started with the attacking and killing??
Lets take a look:

1834 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 1834 Safed pogrom (Hebrew: &#1489;&#1497;&#1494;&#1514; &#1510;&#1508;&#1514; &#1489;&#1513;&#1504;&#1514; &#1514;&#1511;&#1510;"&#1491;, "Plunder of Safed, 5594 AM") was prolonged attack against the Jewish community of Safed, Palestine, during the 1834 Peasants' Revolt. It began on Sunday June 15 (7 Sivan), the day after the Jewish holiday of Shavuot, and lasted for the next 33 days.


1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Riots started by Arabs

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

67 Jews killed

1936?39 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another revolt attack STARTED by the Arabs.


----------



## elektra

Palestinians is what we used to call Jews before WW II. 

Arabs in Palestine never referred to themselves as Palestinians. 

Arabs in Palestine were the weak that got pushed out of an over populated desert, literally the weak forced out by the strong competing for, "wadis". Wadi, just to establish me as the expert, a Wadi is that thing in the desert where one may find grazing for a Camel. Lots of people, little Wadis, the weak had to find refugee far, far, away. 

It was a hard Journey leaving Arabia, to wander through Syria, to find a little home in Palestine. 

Arabic speaking people were not from the land of the Philistines. 

Palestinians, I guess they speak? Palestinian?


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> How the fuck does that answer my question: who started with the attacking and killing??


Because anyone treated like that, is not going to invite you over for dinner.


When you treat people like shit, do you really think they're going to say, _"Thank you!"?_


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every history book disagrees with your version of reality, and says that the Jews were treated as less that dogs. They were beaten and abused every tine they went to pay their Jizya taxes, forced into demeaning themselves by walking in the gutters and were faced with murder and rape for the smallest of crimes. They were forbidden to wear certain clothes, and had to wear distinguishing items of clothing so that everyone could see they were dhimmi. They could not practise their religion openly, or repair their synagogues and many times these were used as communal toilets by the arab muslims. What you refer to is the ISLAMONAZI LIES and FABRICATIONS meant to fool the gullible and semi literate.
> 
> 
> 
> Where's your link to that history book?
Click to expand...




 Try this one for starters

ISRAEL

 Arab terrorism in the Holy Land originated centuries before the recent "tool" of the Palestinian cause was invented. In towns where Jews lived for hundreds of years were periodically robbed, raped, and massacred. The survivors were obliged to abandon their possessions and run. At the beginning of this century Jews were recorded in nearly every town that is today considered to have been "purely Arab". It was Jewish refugees who were forced to flee from their homes within Palestine to other areas in Palestine


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello idiot, stop shoving your foot in your mouth.  The Arabs slaughtered the Ancient Jews of Hebron who had been there since before the Crusades.  How about the occupying Arab animals leave Hebron and give Jews what's been theirs for centuries?
> 
> 
> 
> How about a little evidence to back up that garbage prose?
Click to expand...





ISRAEL

 In the 16th century in Jerusalem the Jews were so taxed to the point of extortion and most of Jerusalem's Jews ran to Hebron, Gaza, and Tiberius to become refugees. Bedouin raiders, general anarchy, tax corruption, with additional tax burden was aimed only at the Jews, yet they held steadfast in Judah-cum-Palestine. The Jerusalem Jews were bitterly and mercilessly persecuted during the 17th century reign of an Arab ruler Ibn Barouk who bought the rule from Murad IV. In 1660 the entire Jewish community was massacred by Arabs with only one survivor.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the fuck does that answer my question: who started with the attacking and killing??
> 
> 
> 
> Because anyone treated like that, is not going to invite you over for dinner.
> 
> 
> When you treat people like shit, do you really think they're going to say, _"Thank you!"?_
Click to expand...




 So after 1400 years of rape, theft and murder by the muslims you expect the Jews to be any different to the rest of humanity.

 Later Muftism by Haj Al-Ameen El-Husseni started fatwas (religious decrees) against all the Jews as a response to the Zionist movement. His collaboration with Hitler on the Eve of The Final Solution left an everlasting mark on the history of Muftism in The Holy Land. Letters of collaboration with Heinrich Himmler and the Hungarian Prime Minister* resulted in the death of 400,000 Jews when he succeeded to stop them from immigrating to the Holy Land*. Till now, no apology, hearing, or condemnation was made by any Arab government or religious official.


----------



## MrMax

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the fuck does that answer my question: who started with the attacking and killing??
> 
> 
> 
> Because anyone treated like that, is not going to invite you over for dinner.
> 
> When you treat people like shit, do you really think they're going to say, _"Thank you!"?_
Click to expand...


I dunno, let's ask the American Indians.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> So after 1400 years of rape, theft and murder by the muslims you expect the Jews to be any different to the rest of humanity.
> 
> Later Muftism by Haj Al-Ameen El-Husseni started fatwas (religious decrees) against all the Jews as a response to the Zionist movement. His collaboration with Hitler on the Eve of The Final Solution left an everlasting mark on the history of Muftism in The Holy Land. Letters of collaboration with Heinrich Himmler and the Hungarian Prime Minister* resulted in the death of 400,000 Jews when he succeeded to stop them from immigrating to the Holy Land*. Till now, no apology, hearing, or condemnation was made by any Arab government or religious official.


Palestinian's had nothing to do with that.

No one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So after 1400 years of rape, theft and murder by the muslims you expect the Jews to be any different to the rest of humanity.
> 
> Later Muftism by Haj Al-Ameen El-Husseni started fatwas (religious decrees) against all the Jews as a response to the Zionist movement. His collaboration with Hitler on the Eve of The Final Solution left an everlasting mark on the history of Muftism in The Holy Land. Letters of collaboration with Heinrich Himmler and the Hungarian Prime Minister* resulted in the death of 400,000 Jews when he succeeded to stop them from immigrating to the Holy Land*. Till now, no apology, hearing, or condemnation was made by any Arab government or religious official.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian's had nothing to do with that.
> 
> No one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit.
Click to expand...





 Palestinians had everything to do with that as they were the people he commanded to carry out his wholesale mass murders. It was him that started the Palestinians illegal fight for land. On top of this the Palestinians in the most part are primarily muslims and they have treated the Jews with contempt and hatred since the invention of islam.


 You constantly demand that Isrealis and world Jewry should be punished severely for a crime they have never committed don't you.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was a Jewish city before the Hebron massacre.  The fact that Arabs committed genocide and then squatted in it,  doesn't make it Arab land.  This is like everything else with Muslims.  The invade, murder and slaughter, then claim the land to be theirs, and a people with ancient ties to it.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence from an unbiased source please, or retract your falsehood
Click to expand...


It is you, the Phony psychopath that constantly posts falsehoods.

Christian City

"The city was part of the Byzantine Empire in Palaestina Prima province at the Deocese of the East. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I erected a Christian church over the Cave of Machpelah in the 6th century CE, which was later destroyed by the Sassanid general Shahrbaraz in 614 when Khosrau II's armies besieged and took Jerusalem.[60] *The Jews were not permitted to reside in Hebron under Byzantine rule*.[14] "

Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim City

"Hebron was one of the last cities of Palestina Prima to fall to the Islamic invasion in the 7th century, possibly the reason why Hebron is not mentioned in any traditions of the Arab conquest.[62] After the fall of the city, Jerusalem's conqueror, *Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab permitted the Jews to return and allowed them to construct a small synagogue* within the Herodian precinct.

Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Christian City

 Christian Crusader Godfrey de Bouillon took Hebron and renamed it "Castellion Saint Abraham".[72] It was designated capital of the southern district of the Crusader Kingdom[73] and given to the bishop Gerard of Avesnes, as the fief of Saint Abraham,[74] As a Frankish garrison of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, its defence was precarious being 'little more than an island in a Moslem ocean'.[75] *The Crusaders converted the mosque and the synagogue into a church. In 1106*, 

Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim City

"The Kurdish Muslim Saladin retook Hebron in 1187  again with Jewish assistance according to one late tradition, in exchange for a letter of security allowing them to return to the city and build a synagogue there.[83] The name of the city was changed back to Al-Khalil. 

Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim City

During the Ottoman rule "Hebron was 'deeply Bedouin and Islamic',[136] and 'bleakly conservative' in its religious outlook,[137] with a strong tradition of hostility to Jews.[138][139] It had a reputation for religious zeal in jealously protecting its sites from Jews and Christians, but both the Jewish and Christian communities were apparently well integrated into the town's economic life.[99] "

Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Muslim City

The British occupied Hebron on 8 December 1917. *Most of Hebron was owned by old Islamic charitable endowments (waqfs), with about 60% of all the land in and around Hebron belonging to the Tam&#299;m al-D&#257;r&#299; waqf.*[143] In 1922, its population stood at 17,000.

Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## MJB12741

Eh, Monte, got news for you.  Hebron is the second most holy Jewish city in all of Israel.  Always was & always will be.  Enjoy!


Four Holy Cities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence from an unbiased source please, or retract your falsehood
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is you, the Phony psychopath that constantly posts falsehoods.
> 
> Christian City
> 
> "The city was part of the Byzantine Empire in Palaestina Prima province at the Deocese of the East. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I erected a Christian church over the Cave of Machpelah in the 6th century CE, which was later destroyed by the Sassanid general Shahrbaraz in 614 when Khosrau II's armies besieged and took Jerusalem.[60] *The Jews were not permitted to reside in Hebron under Byzantine rule*.[14] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "Hebron was one of the last cities of Palestina Prima to fall to the Islamic invasion in the 7th century, possibly the reason why Hebron is not mentioned in any traditions of the Arab conquest.[62] After the fall of the city, Jerusalem's conqueror, *Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab permitted the Jews to return and allowed them to construct a small synagogue* within the Herodian precinct.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Christian City
> 
> Christian Crusader Godfrey de Bouillon took Hebron and renamed it "Castellion Saint Abraham".[72] It was designated capital of the southern district of the Crusader Kingdom[73] and given to the bishop Gerard of Avesnes, as the fief of Saint Abraham,[74] As a Frankish garrison of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, its defence was precarious being 'little more than an island in a Moslem ocean'.[75] *The Crusaders converted the mosque and the synagogue into a church. In 1106*,
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "The Kurdish Muslim Saladin retook Hebron in 1187  again with Jewish assistance according to one late tradition, in exchange for a letter of security allowing them to return to the city and build a synagogue there.[83] The name of the city was changed back to Al-Khalil.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> During the Ottoman rule "Hebron was 'deeply Bedouin and Islamic',[136] and 'bleakly conservative' in its religious outlook,[137] with a strong tradition of hostility to Jews.[138][139] It had a reputation for religious zeal in jealously protecting its sites from Jews and Christians, but both the Jewish and Christian communities were apparently well integrated into the town's economic life.[99] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> The British occupied Hebron on 8 December 1917. *Most of Hebron was owned by old Islamic charitable endowments (waqfs), with about 60% of all the land in and around Hebron belonging to the Tam&#299;m al-D&#257;r&#299; waqf.*[143] In 1922, its population stood at 17,000.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

Oh my, there was a period during Jordanian occupation when there were no jews in Hebron.  Otherwise jews have always lived there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

aris2chat said:


> Oh my, there was a period during Jordanian occupation when there were no jews in Hebron.  Otherwise jews have always lived there.



That doesn't mean anything. Others have always lived there too.


----------



## MJB12741

Burt but you see, according to Monte Hebron was never a Jewish city.  Are you calling him a dope or a liar?  What nerve.





P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, there was a period during Jordanian occupation when there were no jews in Hebron.  Otherwise jews have always lived there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean anything. Others have always lived there too.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was not a Jewish city at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence from an unbiased source please, or retract your falsehood
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is you, the Phony psychopath that constantly posts falsehoods.
> 
> Christian City
> 
> "The city was part of the Byzantine Empire in Palaestina Prima province at the Deocese of the East. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I erected a Christian church over the Cave of Machpelah in the 6th century CE, which was later destroyed by the Sassanid general Shahrbaraz in 614 when Khosrau II's armies besieged and took Jerusalem.[60] *The Jews were not permitted to reside in Hebron under Byzantine rule*.[14] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "Hebron was one of the last cities of Palestina Prima to fall to the Islamic invasion in the 7th century, possibly the reason why Hebron is not mentioned in any traditions of the Arab conquest.[62] After the fall of the city, Jerusalem's conqueror, *Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab permitted the Jews to return and allowed them to construct a small synagogue* within the Herodian precinct.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Christian City
> 
> Christian Crusader Godfrey de Bouillon took Hebron and renamed it "Castellion Saint Abraham".[72] It was designated capital of the southern district of the Crusader Kingdom[73] and given to the bishop Gerard of Avesnes, as the fief of Saint Abraham,[74] As a Frankish garrison of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, its defence was precarious being 'little more than an island in a Moslem ocean'.[75] *The Crusaders converted the mosque and the synagogue into a church. In 1106*,
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "The Kurdish Muslim Saladin retook Hebron in 1187  again with Jewish assistance according to one late tradition, in exchange for a letter of security allowing them to return to the city and build a synagogue there.[83] The name of the city was changed back to Al-Khalil.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> During the Ottoman rule "Hebron was 'deeply Bedouin and Islamic',[136] and 'bleakly conservative' in its religious outlook,[137] with a strong tradition of hostility to Jews.[138][139] It had a reputation for religious zeal in jealously protecting its sites from Jews and Christians, but both the Jewish and Christian communities were apparently well integrated into the town's economic life.[99] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> The British occupied Hebron on 8 December 1917. *Most of Hebron was owned by old Islamic charitable endowments (waqfs), with about 60% of all the land in and around Hebron belonging to the Tam&#299;m al-D&#257;r&#299; waqf.*[143] In 1922, its population stood at 17,000.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...




 Next you will be saying that Jerusalem was a muslim city during the reign of King David


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, there was a period during Jordanian occupation when there were no jews in Hebron.  Otherwise jews have always lived there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean anything. Others have always lived there too.
Click to expand...




 Muslims haven't as they did not exist before 627 C.E., remember that was when Mohamed the mentally retarded psychopath invented them.


----------



## montelatici

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence from an unbiased source please, or retract your falsehood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is you, the Phony psychopath that constantly posts falsehoods.
> 
> Christian City
> 
> "The city was part of the Byzantine Empire in Palaestina Prima province at the Deocese of the East. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I erected a Christian church over the Cave of Machpelah in the 6th century CE, which was later destroyed by the Sassanid general Shahrbaraz in 614 when Khosrau II's armies besieged and took Jerusalem.[60] *The Jews were not permitted to reside in Hebron under Byzantine rule*.[14] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "Hebron was one of the last cities of Palestina Prima to fall to the Islamic invasion in the 7th century, possibly the reason why Hebron is not mentioned in any traditions of the Arab conquest.[62] After the fall of the city, Jerusalem's conqueror, *Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab permitted the Jews to return and allowed them to construct a small synagogue* within the Herodian precinct.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Christian City
> 
> Christian Crusader Godfrey de Bouillon took Hebron and renamed it "Castellion Saint Abraham".[72] It was designated capital of the southern district of the Crusader Kingdom[73] and given to the bishop Gerard of Avesnes, as the fief of Saint Abraham,[74] As a Frankish garrison of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, its defence was precarious being 'little more than an island in a Moslem ocean'.[75] *The Crusaders converted the mosque and the synagogue into a church. In 1106*,
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "The Kurdish Muslim Saladin retook Hebron in 1187  again with Jewish assistance according to one late tradition, in exchange for a letter of security allowing them to return to the city and build a synagogue there.[83] The name of the city was changed back to Al-Khalil.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> During the Ottoman rule "Hebron was 'deeply Bedouin and Islamic',[136] and 'bleakly conservative' in its religious outlook,[137] with a strong tradition of hostility to Jews.[138][139] It had a reputation for religious zeal in jealously protecting its sites from Jews and Christians, but both the Jewish and Christian communities were apparently well integrated into the town's economic life.[99] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> The British occupied Hebron on 8 December 1917. *Most of Hebron was owned by old Islamic charitable endowments (waqfs), with about 60% of all the land in and around Hebron belonging to the Tam&#299;m al-D&#257;r&#299; waqf.*[143] In 1922, its population stood at 17,000.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next you will be saying that Jerusalem was a muslim city during the reign of King David
Click to expand...


I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence from an unbiased source please, or retract your falsehood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is you, the Phony psychopath that constantly posts falsehoods.
> 
> Christian City
> 
> "The city was part of the Byzantine Empire in Palaestina Prima province at the Deocese of the East. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I erected a Christian church over the Cave of Machpelah in the 6th century CE, which was later destroyed by the Sassanid general Shahrbaraz in 614 when Khosrau II's armies besieged and took Jerusalem.[60] *The Jews were not permitted to reside in Hebron under Byzantine rule*.[14] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "Hebron was one of the last cities of Palestina Prima to fall to the Islamic invasion in the 7th century, possibly the reason why Hebron is not mentioned in any traditions of the Arab conquest.[62] After the fall of the city, Jerusalem's conqueror, *Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab permitted the Jews to return and allowed them to construct a small synagogue* within the Herodian precinct.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Christian City
> 
> Christian Crusader Godfrey de Bouillon took Hebron and renamed it "Castellion Saint Abraham".[72] It was designated capital of the southern district of the Crusader Kingdom[73] and given to the bishop Gerard of Avesnes, as the fief of Saint Abraham,[74] As a Frankish garrison of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, its defence was precarious being 'little more than an island in a Moslem ocean'.[75] *The Crusaders converted the mosque and the synagogue into a church. In 1106*,
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "The Kurdish Muslim Saladin retook Hebron in 1187  again with Jewish assistance according to one late tradition, in exchange for a letter of security allowing them to return to the city and build a synagogue there.[83] The name of the city was changed back to Al-Khalil.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> During the Ottoman rule "Hebron was 'deeply Bedouin and Islamic',[136] and 'bleakly conservative' in its religious outlook,[137] with a strong tradition of hostility to Jews.[138][139] It had a reputation for religious zeal in jealously protecting its sites from Jews and Christians, but both the Jewish and Christian communities were apparently well integrated into the town's economic life.[99] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> The British occupied Hebron on 8 December 1917. *Most of Hebron was owned by old Islamic charitable endowments (waqfs), with about 60% of all the land in and around Hebron belonging to the Tam&#299;m al-D&#257;r&#299; waqf.*[143] In 1922, its population stood at 17,000.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next you will be saying that Jerusalem was a muslim city during the reign of King David
Click to expand...


All jews who submit to the laws of god (ten commandments, etc.) are muslims in theory.  
Jews as the carriers of the laws and followers of the one god are people of the book and hold a higher status than pagans and idol worshipers. 
Submission to god is one thing, by jews just don't believe Mohammed is a prophet of god.  He was not jewish and the time of the prophets had ended.
Jews have not surrendered to the will of god, and the words of Mohammed, Islam.
In the quran 2:256, there is not compulsion of religion.  People should not be forced to accept Islam, Mohammed or the quran.


----------



## MrMax

Hey monte, what's bushier, a black shag carpet, or a moo slims pussy?


----------



## montelatici

MrMax said:


> Hey monte, what's bushier, a black shag carpet, or a moo slims pussy?



Typical of the Zionist set.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is you, the Phony psychopath that constantly posts falsehoods.
> 
> Christian City
> 
> "The city was part of the Byzantine Empire in Palaestina Prima province at the Deocese of the East. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I erected a Christian church over the Cave of Machpelah in the 6th century CE, which was later destroyed by the Sassanid general Shahrbaraz in 614 when Khosrau II's armies besieged and took Jerusalem.[60] *The Jews were not permitted to reside in Hebron under Byzantine rule*.[14] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "Hebron was one of the last cities of Palestina Prima to fall to the Islamic invasion in the 7th century, possibly the reason why Hebron is not mentioned in any traditions of the Arab conquest.[62] After the fall of the city, Jerusalem's conqueror, *Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab permitted the Jews to return and allowed them to construct a small synagogue* within the Herodian precinct.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Christian City
> 
> Christian Crusader Godfrey de Bouillon took Hebron and renamed it "Castellion Saint Abraham".[72] It was designated capital of the southern district of the Crusader Kingdom[73] and given to the bishop Gerard of Avesnes, as the fief of Saint Abraham,[74] As a Frankish garrison of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, its defence was precarious being 'little more than an island in a Moslem ocean'.[75] *The Crusaders converted the mosque and the synagogue into a church. In 1106*,
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "The Kurdish Muslim Saladin retook Hebron in 1187 &#8211; again with Jewish assistance according to one late tradition, in exchange for a letter of security allowing them to return to the city and build a synagogue there.[83] The name of the city was changed back to Al-Khalil.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> During the Ottoman rule "Hebron was 'deeply Bedouin and Islamic',[136] and 'bleakly conservative' in its religious outlook,[137] with a strong tradition of hostility to Jews.[138][139] It had a reputation for religious zeal in jealously protecting its sites from Jews and Christians, but both the Jewish and Christian communities were apparently well integrated into the town's economic life.[99] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> The British occupied Hebron on 8 December 1917. *Most of Hebron was owned by old Islamic charitable endowments (waqfs), with about 60% of all the land in and around Hebron belonging to the Tam&#299;m al-D&#257;r&#299; waqf.*[143] In 1922, its population stood at 17,000.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next you will be saying that Jerusalem was a muslim city during the reign of King David
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
Click to expand...

Muslim city?  Ha ha ha.  Nice try.  Hebron has always been a Jewish city and always will be.  Arabs are just invaders, period, end of story. 

F*rom Biblical Times to 1967*

 Numbers 13:22 states that (Canaanite) Hebron was founded seven years before the Egyptian town of Zoan, i.e. around 1720 BCE, and the ancient (Canaanite and Israelite) city of Hebron was situated at Tel Rumeida. The city's history has been inseparably linked with the Cave of Machpelah, which the Patriarch Abraham purchased from Ephron the Hittite for 400 silver shekels (Genesis 23), as a family tomb. As recorded in Genesis, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebekah and Leah, are buried there, and &#8212; according to a Jewish tradition &#8212; Adam and Eve are also buried there.

Hebron is mentioned 87 times in the Bible, and is the world's oldest Jewish community. Joshua assigned Hebron to Caleb from the tribe of Judah (Joshua 14:13-14), who subsequently led his tribe in conquering the city and its environs (Judges 1:1-20). As Joshua 14:15 notes, "the former name of Hebron was Kiryat Arba..."

Following the death of King Saul, God instructed David to go to Hebron, where he was anointed King of Judah (II Samuel 2:1-4). A little more than 7.5 years later, David was anointed King over all Israel, in Hebron (II Samuel 5:1-3).

The city was part of the united kingdom and &#8212; later &#8212; the southern Kingdom of Judah, until the latter fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Despite the loss of Jewish independence, Jews continued to live in Hebron (Nehemiah 11:25), and the city was later incorporated into the (Jewish) Hasmonean kingdom by John Hyrcanus. King Herod (reigned 37-4 BCE) built the base of the present structure &#8212; the 12 meter high wall &#8212; over the Tomb the Patriarchs.

The city was the scene of extensive fighting during the Jewish Revolt against the Romans (65-70, see Josephus 4:529, 554), but Jews continued to live there after the Revolt, through the later Bar Kochba Revolt (132-135 CE), and into the Byzantine period. The remains of a synagogue from the Byzantine period have been excavated in the city, and the Byzantines built a large church over the Tomb of the Patriarchs, incorporating the pre- existing Herodian structure.

Jews continued to live in Hebron after the city's conquest by the Arabs (in 638), whose generally tolerant rule was welcomed, especially after the often harsh Byzantine rule &#8212; although the Byzantines never forbade Jews from praying at the Tomb. The Arabs converted the Byzantine church at the Tomb the Patriarchs into a mosque.

Upon capturing the city in 1100, the Crusaders expelled the Jewish community, and converted the mosque at the Tomb back into a church. The Jewish community was re-established following the Mamelukes' conquest of the city in 1260, and the Mamelukes reconverted the church at the Tomb of the Patriarchs back into a mosque. However, the restored Islamic (Mameluke) ascendancy was less tolerant than the pre-Crusader Islamic (Arab) regimes &#8212; a 1266 decree barred Jews (and Christians) from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs, allowing them only to ascend to the fifth, later the seventh, step outside the eastern wall. The Jewish cemetery -- on a hill west of the Tomb &#8212; was first mentioned in a letter dated to 1290.

The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533. In 1540, Jewish exiles from Spain acquired the site of the "Court of the Jews" and built the Avraham Avinu ("Abraham Our Father") synagogue. (One year &#8212; according to local legend &#8212; when the requisite quorum for prayer was lacking, the Patriarch Abraham himself appeared to complete the quorum; hence, the name of the synagogue.)

Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note.

In 1775, the Hebron Jewish community was rocked by a blood libel, in which Jews were falsely accused of murdering the son of a local sheikh. The community -- which was largely sustained by donations from abroad -- was made to pay a crushing fine, which further worsened its already shaky economic situation. Despite its poverty, the community managed, in 1807, to purchase a 5-dunam plot -- upon which the city's wholesale market stands today -- and after several years the sale was recognized by the Hebron Waqf. In 1811, 800 dunams of land were acquired to expand the cemetery. In 1817, the Jewish community numbered approximately 500, and by 1838, it had grown to 700, despite a pogrom which took place in 1834, during Mohammed Ali's rebellion against the Ottomans (1831-1840).

In 1870, a wealthy Turkish Jew, Haim Yisrael Romano, moved to Hebron and purchased a plot of land upon which his family built a large residence and guest house, which came to be called Beit Romano. The building later housed a synagogue and served as a yeshiva, before it was seized by the Turks. During the Mandatory period, the building served the British administration as a police station, remand center, and court house.

In 1893, the building later known as Beit Hadassah was built by the Hebron Jewish community as a clinic, and a second floor was added in 1909. The American Zionist Hadassah organization contributed the salaries of the clinic's medical staff, who served both the city's Jewish and Arab populations.

During World War I, before the British occupation, the Jewish community suffered greatly under the wartime Turkish administration. Young men were forcibly conscripted into the Turkish army, overseas financial assistance was cut off, and the community was threatened by hunger and disease. However, with the establishment of the British administration in 1918, the community, reduced to 430 people, began to recover. In 1925, Rabbi Mordechai Epstein established a new yeshiva, and by 1929, the population had risen to 700 again.

On August 23, 1929, local Arabs devastated the Jewish community by perpetrating a vicious, large-scale, organized, pogrom. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica:

"The assault was well planned and its aim was well defined: the elimination of the Jewish settlement of Hebron. The rioters did not spare women, children, or the aged; the British gave passive assent. Sixty-seven were killed, 60 wounded, the community was destroyed, synagogues razed, and Torah scrolls burned."


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Next you will be saying that Jerusalem was a muslim city during the reign of King David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Muslim city?  Ha ha ha.  Nice try.  Hebron has always been a Jewish city and always will be.  Arabs are just invaders, period, end of story.
> 
> F*rom Biblical Times to 1967*
> 
> Numbers 13:22 states that (Canaanite) Hebron was founded seven years before the Egyptian town of Zoan, i.e. around 1720 BCE, and the ancient (Canaanite and Israelite) city of Hebron was situated at Tel Rumeida. The city's history has been inseparably linked with the Cave of Machpelah, which the Patriarch Abraham purchased from Ephron the Hittite for 400 silver shekels (Genesis 23), as a family tomb. As recorded in Genesis, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebekah and Leah, are buried there, and  according to a Jewish tradition  Adam and Eve are also buried there.
> 
> Hebron is mentioned 87 times in the Bible, and is the world's oldest Jewish community. Joshua assigned Hebron to Caleb from the tribe of Judah (Joshua 14:13-14), who subsequently led his tribe in conquering the city and its environs (Judges 1:1-20). As Joshua 14:15 notes, "the former name of Hebron was Kiryat Arba..."
> 
> Following the death of King Saul, God instructed David to go to Hebron, where he was anointed King of Judah (II Samuel 2:1-4). A little more than 7.5 years later, David was anointed King over all Israel, in Hebron (II Samuel 5:1-3).
> 
> The city was part of the united kingdom and  later  the southern Kingdom of Judah, until the latter fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Despite the loss of Jewish independence, Jews continued to live in Hebron (Nehemiah 11:25), and the city was later incorporated into the (Jewish) Hasmonean kingdom by John Hyrcanus. King Herod (reigned 37-4 BCE) built the base of the present structure  the 12 meter high wall  over the Tomb the Patriarchs.
> 
> The city was the scene of extensive fighting during the Jewish Revolt against the Romans (65-70, see Josephus 4:529, 554), but Jews continued to live there after the Revolt, through the later Bar Kochba Revolt (132-135 CE), and into the Byzantine period. The remains of a synagogue from the Byzantine period have been excavated in the city, and the Byzantines built a large church over the Tomb of the Patriarchs, incorporating the pre- existing Herodian structure.
> 
> Jews continued to live in Hebron after the city's conquest by the Arabs (in 638), whose generally tolerant rule was welcomed, especially after the often harsh Byzantine rule  although the Byzantines never forbade Jews from praying at the Tomb. The Arabs converted the Byzantine church at the Tomb the Patriarchs into a mosque.
> 
> Upon capturing the city in 1100, the Crusaders expelled the Jewish community, and converted the mosque at the Tomb back into a church. The Jewish community was re-established following the Mamelukes' conquest of the city in 1260, and the Mamelukes reconverted the church at the Tomb of the Patriarchs back into a mosque. However, the restored Islamic (Mameluke) ascendancy was less tolerant than the pre-Crusader Islamic (Arab) regimes  a 1266 decree barred Jews (and Christians) from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs, allowing them only to ascend to the fifth, later the seventh, step outside the eastern wall. The Jewish cemetery -- on a hill west of the Tomb  was first mentioned in a letter dated to 1290.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533. In 1540, Jewish exiles from Spain acquired the site of the "Court of the Jews" and built the Avraham Avinu ("Abraham Our Father") synagogue. (One year  according to local legend  when the requisite quorum for prayer was lacking, the Patriarch Abraham himself appeared to complete the quorum; hence, the name of the synagogue.)
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note.
> 
> In 1775, the Hebron Jewish community was rocked by a blood libel, in which Jews were falsely accused of murdering the son of a local sheikh. The community -- which was largely sustained by donations from abroad -- was made to pay a crushing fine, which further worsened its already shaky economic situation. Despite its poverty, the community managed, in 1807, to purchase a 5-dunam plot -- upon which the city's wholesale market stands today -- and after several years the sale was recognized by the Hebron Waqf. In 1811, 800 dunams of land were acquired to expand the cemetery. In 1817, the Jewish community numbered approximately 500, and by 1838, it had grown to 700, despite a pogrom which took place in 1834, during Mohammed Ali's rebellion against the Ottomans (1831-1840).
> 
> In 1870, a wealthy Turkish Jew, Haim Yisrael Romano, moved to Hebron and purchased a plot of land upon which his family built a large residence and guest house, which came to be called Beit Romano. The building later housed a synagogue and served as a yeshiva, before it was seized by the Turks. During the Mandatory period, the building served the British administration as a police station, remand center, and court house.
> 
> In 1893, the building later known as Beit Hadassah was built by the Hebron Jewish community as a clinic, and a second floor was added in 1909. The American Zionist Hadassah organization contributed the salaries of the clinic's medical staff, who served both the city's Jewish and Arab populations.
> 
> During World War I, before the British occupation, the Jewish community suffered greatly under the wartime Turkish administration. Young men were forcibly conscripted into the Turkish army, overseas financial assistance was cut off, and the community was threatened by hunger and disease. However, with the establishment of the British administration in 1918, the community, reduced to 430 people, began to recover. In 1925, Rabbi Mordechai Epstein established a new yeshiva, and by 1929, the population had risen to 700 again.
> 
> On August 23, 1929, local Arabs devastated the Jewish community by perpetrating a vicious, large-scale, organized, pogrom. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica:
> 
> "The assault was well planned and its aim was well defined: the elimination of the Jewish settlement of Hebron. The rioters did not spare women, children, or the aged; the British gave passive assent. Sixty-seven were killed, 60 wounded, the community was destroyed, synagogues razed, and Torah scrolls burned."
Click to expand...


You provide no link because you are posting bullshit from a Jewish propaganda site. Encyclopedia Judaica, come on, the only person you are fooling is yourself.

I post facts with links.  Hebron hasn't been Jewish for over 2,000 years and was probably Caanite for a longer time than Jewish if you want to go back that far.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim city?  Ha ha ha.  Nice try.  Hebron has always been a Jewish city and always will be.  Arabs are just invaders, period, end of story.
> 
> F*rom Biblical Times to 1967*
> 
> Numbers 13:22 states that (Canaanite) Hebron was founded seven years before the Egyptian town of Zoan, i.e. around 1720 BCE, and the ancient (Canaanite and Israelite) city of Hebron was situated at Tel Rumeida. The city's history has been inseparably linked with the Cave of Machpelah, which the Patriarch Abraham purchased from Ephron the Hittite for 400 silver shekels (Genesis 23), as a family tomb. As recorded in Genesis, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebekah and Leah, are buried there, and  according to a Jewish tradition  Adam and Eve are also buried there.
> 
> Hebron is mentioned 87 times in the Bible, and is the world's oldest Jewish community. Joshua assigned Hebron to Caleb from the tribe of Judah (Joshua 14:13-14), who subsequently led his tribe in conquering the city and its environs (Judges 1:1-20). As Joshua 14:15 notes, "the former name of Hebron was Kiryat Arba..."
> 
> Following the death of King Saul, God instructed David to go to Hebron, where he was anointed King of Judah (II Samuel 2:1-4). A little more than 7.5 years later, David was anointed King over all Israel, in Hebron (II Samuel 5:1-3).
> 
> The city was part of the united kingdom and  later  the southern Kingdom of Judah, until the latter fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Despite the loss of Jewish independence, Jews continued to live in Hebron (Nehemiah 11:25), and the city was later incorporated into the (Jewish) Hasmonean kingdom by John Hyrcanus. King Herod (reigned 37-4 BCE) built the base of the present structure  the 12 meter high wall  over the Tomb the Patriarchs.
> 
> The city was the scene of extensive fighting during the Jewish Revolt against the Romans (65-70, see Josephus 4:529, 554), but Jews continued to live there after the Revolt, through the later Bar Kochba Revolt (132-135 CE), and into the Byzantine period. The remains of a synagogue from the Byzantine period have been excavated in the city, and the Byzantines built a large church over the Tomb of the Patriarchs, incorporating the pre- existing Herodian structure.
> 
> Jews continued to live in Hebron after the city's conquest by the Arabs (in 638), whose generally tolerant rule was welcomed, especially after the often harsh Byzantine rule  although the Byzantines never forbade Jews from praying at the Tomb. The Arabs converted the Byzantine church at the Tomb the Patriarchs into a mosque.
> 
> Upon capturing the city in 1100, the Crusaders expelled the Jewish community, and converted the mosque at the Tomb back into a church. The Jewish community was re-established following the Mamelukes' conquest of the city in 1260, and the Mamelukes reconverted the church at the Tomb of the Patriarchs back into a mosque. However, the restored Islamic (Mameluke) ascendancy was less tolerant than the pre-Crusader Islamic (Arab) regimes  a 1266 decree barred Jews (and Christians) from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs, allowing them only to ascend to the fifth, later the seventh, step outside the eastern wall. The Jewish cemetery -- on a hill west of the Tomb  was first mentioned in a letter dated to 1290.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533. In 1540, Jewish exiles from Spain acquired the site of the "Court of the Jews" and built the Avraham Avinu ("Abraham Our Father") synagogue. (One year  according to local legend  when the requisite quorum for prayer was lacking, the Patriarch Abraham himself appeared to complete the quorum; hence, the name of the synagogue.)
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note.
> 
> In 1775, the Hebron Jewish community was rocked by a blood libel, in which Jews were falsely accused of murdering the son of a local sheikh. The community -- which was largely sustained by donations from abroad -- was made to pay a crushing fine, which further worsened its already shaky economic situation. Despite its poverty, the community managed, in 1807, to purchase a 5-dunam plot -- upon which the city's wholesale market stands today -- and after several years the sale was recognized by the Hebron Waqf. In 1811, 800 dunams of land were acquired to expand the cemetery. In 1817, the Jewish community numbered approximately 500, and by 1838, it had grown to 700, despite a pogrom which took place in 1834, during Mohammed Ali's rebellion against the Ottomans (1831-1840).
> 
> In 1870, a wealthy Turkish Jew, Haim Yisrael Romano, moved to Hebron and purchased a plot of land upon which his family built a large residence and guest house, which came to be called Beit Romano. The building later housed a synagogue and served as a yeshiva, before it was seized by the Turks. During the Mandatory period, the building served the British administration as a police station, remand center, and court house.
> 
> In 1893, the building later known as Beit Hadassah was built by the Hebron Jewish community as a clinic, and a second floor was added in 1909. The American Zionist Hadassah organization contributed the salaries of the clinic's medical staff, who served both the city's Jewish and Arab populations.
> 
> During World War I, before the British occupation, the Jewish community suffered greatly under the wartime Turkish administration. Young men were forcibly conscripted into the Turkish army, overseas financial assistance was cut off, and the community was threatened by hunger and disease. However, with the establishment of the British administration in 1918, the community, reduced to 430 people, began to recover. In 1925, Rabbi Mordechai Epstein established a new yeshiva, and by 1929, the population had risen to 700 again.
> 
> On August 23, 1929, local Arabs devastated the Jewish community by perpetrating a vicious, large-scale, organized, pogrom. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica:
> 
> "The assault was well planned and its aim was well defined: the elimination of the Jewish settlement of Hebron. The rioters did not spare women, children, or the aged; the British gave passive assent. Sixty-seven were killed, 60 wounded, the community was destroyed, synagogues razed, and Torah scrolls burned."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You provide no link because you are posting bullshit from a Jewish propaganda site. Encyclopedia Judaica, come on, the only person you are fooling is yourself.
> 
> I post facts with links.  Hebron hasn't been Jewish for over 2,000 years and was probably Caanite for a longer time than Jewish if you want to go back that far.
Click to expand...

Nope.  The link is right there for all to see.  There are plenty of other sites that confirm everything that was said and more.  Soweee.  Jews have clearly maintained a presence, Muslims are the invaders.  Mash allah.


----------



## Roudy

Since when did the cave where Jewish prophets were buried become a Muslim Holy site?  Wow... the bullshit that Muslims believe in is astounding.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim city?  Ha ha ha.  Nice try.  Hebron has always been a Jewish city and always will be.  Arabs are just invaders, period, end of story.
> 
> F*rom Biblical Times to 1967*
> 
> Numbers 13:22 states that (Canaanite) Hebron was founded seven years before the Egyptian town of Zoan, i.e. around 1720 BCE, and the ancient (Canaanite and Israelite) city of Hebron was situated at Tel Rumeida. The city's history has been inseparably linked with the Cave of Machpelah, which the Patriarch Abraham purchased from Ephron the Hittite for 400 silver shekels (Genesis 23), as a family tomb. As recorded in Genesis, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebekah and Leah, are buried there, and  according to a Jewish tradition  Adam and Eve are also buried there.
> 
> Hebron is mentioned 87 times in the Bible, and is the world's oldest Jewish community. Joshua assigned Hebron to Caleb from the tribe of Judah (Joshua 14:13-14), who subsequently led his tribe in conquering the city and its environs (Judges 1:1-20). As Joshua 14:15 notes, "the former name of Hebron was Kiryat Arba..."
> 
> Following the death of King Saul, God instructed David to go to Hebron, where he was anointed King of Judah (II Samuel 2:1-4). A little more than 7.5 years later, David was anointed King over all Israel, in Hebron (II Samuel 5:1-3).
> 
> The city was part of the united kingdom and  later  the southern Kingdom of Judah, until the latter fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Despite the loss of Jewish independence, Jews continued to live in Hebron (Nehemiah 11:25), and the city was later incorporated into the (Jewish) Hasmonean kingdom by John Hyrcanus. King Herod (reigned 37-4 BCE) built the base of the present structure  the 12 meter high wall  over the Tomb the Patriarchs.
> 
> The city was the scene of extensive fighting during the Jewish Revolt against the Romans (65-70, see Josephus 4:529, 554), but Jews continued to live there after the Revolt, through the later Bar Kochba Revolt (132-135 CE), and into the Byzantine period. The remains of a synagogue from the Byzantine period have been excavated in the city, and the Byzantines built a large church over the Tomb of the Patriarchs, incorporating the pre- existing Herodian structure.
> 
> Jews continued to live in Hebron after the city's conquest by the Arabs (in 638), whose generally tolerant rule was welcomed, especially after the often harsh Byzantine rule  although the Byzantines never forbade Jews from praying at the Tomb. The Arabs converted the Byzantine church at the Tomb the Patriarchs into a mosque.
> 
> Upon capturing the city in 1100, the Crusaders expelled the Jewish community, and converted the mosque at the Tomb back into a church. The Jewish community was re-established following the Mamelukes' conquest of the city in 1260, and the Mamelukes reconverted the church at the Tomb of the Patriarchs back into a mosque. However, the restored Islamic (Mameluke) ascendancy was less tolerant than the pre-Crusader Islamic (Arab) regimes  a 1266 decree barred Jews (and Christians) from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs, allowing them only to ascend to the fifth, later the seventh, step outside the eastern wall. The Jewish cemetery -- on a hill west of the Tomb  was first mentioned in a letter dated to 1290.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533. In 1540, Jewish exiles from Spain acquired the site of the "Court of the Jews" and built the Avraham Avinu ("Abraham Our Father") synagogue. (One year  according to local legend  when the requisite quorum for prayer was lacking, the Patriarch Abraham himself appeared to complete the quorum; hence, the name of the synagogue.)
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note.
> 
> In 1775, the Hebron Jewish community was rocked by a blood libel, in which Jews were falsely accused of murdering the son of a local sheikh. The community -- which was largely sustained by donations from abroad -- was made to pay a crushing fine, which further worsened its already shaky economic situation. Despite its poverty, the community managed, in 1807, to purchase a 5-dunam plot -- upon which the city's wholesale market stands today -- and after several years the sale was recognized by the Hebron Waqf. In 1811, 800 dunams of land were acquired to expand the cemetery. In 1817, the Jewish community numbered approximately 500, and by 1838, it had grown to 700, despite a pogrom which took place in 1834, during Mohammed Ali's rebellion against the Ottomans (1831-1840).
> 
> In 1870, a wealthy Turkish Jew, Haim Yisrael Romano, moved to Hebron and purchased a plot of land upon which his family built a large residence and guest house, which came to be called Beit Romano. The building later housed a synagogue and served as a yeshiva, before it was seized by the Turks. During the Mandatory period, the building served the British administration as a police station, remand center, and court house.
> 
> In 1893, the building later known as Beit Hadassah was built by the Hebron Jewish community as a clinic, and a second floor was added in 1909. The American Zionist Hadassah organization contributed the salaries of the clinic's medical staff, who served both the city's Jewish and Arab populations.
> 
> During World War I, before the British occupation, the Jewish community suffered greatly under the wartime Turkish administration. Young men were forcibly conscripted into the Turkish army, overseas financial assistance was cut off, and the community was threatened by hunger and disease. However, with the establishment of the British administration in 1918, the community, reduced to 430 people, began to recover. In 1925, Rabbi Mordechai Epstein established a new yeshiva, and by 1929, the population had risen to 700 again.
> 
> On August 23, 1929, local Arabs devastated the Jewish community by perpetrating a vicious, large-scale, organized, pogrom. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica:
> 
> "The assault was well planned and its aim was well defined: the elimination of the Jewish settlement of Hebron. The rioters did not spare women, children, or the aged; the British gave passive assent. Sixty-seven were killed, 60 wounded, the community was destroyed, synagogues razed, and Torah scrolls burned."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You provide no link because you are posting bullshit from a Jewish propaganda site. Encyclopedia Judaica, come on, the only person you are fooling is yourself.
> 
> I post facts with links.  Hebron hasn't been Jewish for over 2,000 years and was probably Caanite for a longer time than Jewish if you want to go back that far.
Click to expand...


of course there was a link but you choose not to accept that it might be telling the facts so you off hand dismiss it.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  Say whatever fantasy comes to your mind.  Hebron still is the 2nd most important Jewish city in Israel.  And always will be.  Hurts huh?

Four Holy Cities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim city?  Ha ha ha.  Nice try.  Hebron has always been a Jewish city and always will be.  Arabs are just invaders, period, end of story.
> 
> F*rom Biblical Times to 1967*
> 
> Numbers 13:22 states that (Canaanite) Hebron was founded seven years before the Egyptian town of Zoan, i.e. around 1720 BCE, and the ancient (Canaanite and Israelite) city of Hebron was situated at Tel Rumeida. The city's history has been inseparably linked with the Cave of Machpelah, which the Patriarch Abraham purchased from Ephron the Hittite for 400 silver shekels (Genesis 23), as a family tomb. As recorded in Genesis, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebekah and Leah, are buried there, and  according to a Jewish tradition  Adam and Eve are also buried there.
> 
> Hebron is mentioned 87 times in the Bible, and is the world's oldest Jewish community. Joshua assigned Hebron to Caleb from the tribe of Judah (Joshua 14:13-14), who subsequently led his tribe in conquering the city and its environs (Judges 1:1-20). As Joshua 14:15 notes, "the former name of Hebron was Kiryat Arba..."
> 
> Following the death of King Saul, God instructed David to go to Hebron, where he was anointed King of Judah (II Samuel 2:1-4). A little more than 7.5 years later, David was anointed King over all Israel, in Hebron (II Samuel 5:1-3).
> 
> The city was part of the united kingdom and  later  the southern Kingdom of Judah, until the latter fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Despite the loss of Jewish independence, Jews continued to live in Hebron (Nehemiah 11:25), and the city was later incorporated into the (Jewish) Hasmonean kingdom by John Hyrcanus. King Herod (reigned 37-4 BCE) built the base of the present structure  the 12 meter high wall  over the Tomb the Patriarchs.
> 
> The city was the scene of extensive fighting during the Jewish Revolt against the Romans (65-70, see Josephus 4:529, 554), but Jews continued to live there after the Revolt, through the later Bar Kochba Revolt (132-135 CE), and into the Byzantine period. The remains of a synagogue from the Byzantine period have been excavated in the city, and the Byzantines built a large church over the Tomb of the Patriarchs, incorporating the pre- existing Herodian structure.
> 
> Jews continued to live in Hebron after the city's conquest by the Arabs (in 638), whose generally tolerant rule was welcomed, especially after the often harsh Byzantine rule  although the Byzantines never forbade Jews from praying at the Tomb. The Arabs converted the Byzantine church at the Tomb the Patriarchs into a mosque.
> 
> Upon capturing the city in 1100, the Crusaders expelled the Jewish community, and converted the mosque at the Tomb back into a church. The Jewish community was re-established following the Mamelukes' conquest of the city in 1260, and the Mamelukes reconverted the church at the Tomb of the Patriarchs back into a mosque. However, the restored Islamic (Mameluke) ascendancy was less tolerant than the pre-Crusader Islamic (Arab) regimes  a 1266 decree barred Jews (and Christians) from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs, allowing them only to ascend to the fifth, later the seventh, step outside the eastern wall. The Jewish cemetery -- on a hill west of the Tomb  was first mentioned in a letter dated to 1290.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533. In 1540, Jewish exiles from Spain acquired the site of the "Court of the Jews" and built the Avraham Avinu ("Abraham Our Father") synagogue. (One year  according to local legend  when the requisite quorum for prayer was lacking, the Patriarch Abraham himself appeared to complete the quorum; hence, the name of the synagogue.)
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note.
> 
> In 1775, the Hebron Jewish community was rocked by a blood libel, in which Jews were falsely accused of murdering the son of a local sheikh. The community -- which was largely sustained by donations from abroad -- was made to pay a crushing fine, which further worsened its already shaky economic situation. Despite its poverty, the community managed, in 1807, to purchase a 5-dunam plot -- upon which the city's wholesale market stands today -- and after several years the sale was recognized by the Hebron Waqf. In 1811, 800 dunams of land were acquired to expand the cemetery. In 1817, the Jewish community numbered approximately 500, and by 1838, it had grown to 700, despite a pogrom which took place in 1834, during Mohammed Ali's rebellion against the Ottomans (1831-1840).
> 
> In 1870, a wealthy Turkish Jew, Haim Yisrael Romano, moved to Hebron and purchased a plot of land upon which his family built a large residence and guest house, which came to be called Beit Romano. The building later housed a synagogue and served as a yeshiva, before it was seized by the Turks. During the Mandatory period, the building served the British administration as a police station, remand center, and court house.
> 
> In 1893, the building later known as Beit Hadassah was built by the Hebron Jewish community as a clinic, and a second floor was added in 1909. The American Zionist Hadassah organization contributed the salaries of the clinic's medical staff, who served both the city's Jewish and Arab populations.
> 
> During World War I, before the British occupation, the Jewish community suffered greatly under the wartime Turkish administration. Young men were forcibly conscripted into the Turkish army, overseas financial assistance was cut off, and the community was threatened by hunger and disease. However, with the establishment of the British administration in 1918, the community, reduced to 430 people, began to recover. In 1925, Rabbi Mordechai Epstein established a new yeshiva, and by 1929, the population had risen to 700 again.
> 
> On August 23, 1929, local Arabs devastated the Jewish community by perpetrating a vicious, large-scale, organized, pogrom. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica:
> 
> "The assault was well planned and its aim was well defined: the elimination of the Jewish settlement of Hebron. The rioters did not spare women, children, or the aged; the British gave passive assent. Sixty-seven were killed, 60 wounded, the community was destroyed, synagogues razed, and Torah scrolls burned."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You provide no link because you are posting bullshit from a Jewish propaganda site. Encyclopedia Judaica, come on, the only person you are fooling is yourself.
> 
> I post facts with links.  Hebron hasn't been Jewish for over 2,000 years and was probably Caanite for a longer time than Jewish if you want to go back that far.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the fuck does that answer my question: who started with the attacking and killing??
> 
> 
> 
> Because anyone treated like that, is not going to invite you over for dinner.
> 
> 
> When you treat people like shit, do you really think they're going to say, _"Thank you!"?_
Click to expand...


Did you even bother reading my links?? They all have to do with Arab attacks against Jews way before Israel even became a state. 

Using your logic, maybe these attacks are the reason Jews started treating them like shit.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is you, the Phony psychopath that constantly posts falsehoods.
> 
> Christian City
> 
> "The city was part of the Byzantine Empire in Palaestina Prima province at the Deocese of the East. The Byzantine emperor Justinian I erected a Christian church over the Cave of Machpelah in the 6th century CE, which was later destroyed by the Sassanid general Shahrbaraz in 614 when Khosrau II's armies besieged and took Jerusalem.[60] *The Jews were not permitted to reside in Hebron under Byzantine rule*.[14] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "Hebron was one of the last cities of Palestina Prima to fall to the Islamic invasion in the 7th century, possibly the reason why Hebron is not mentioned in any traditions of the Arab conquest.[62] After the fall of the city, Jerusalem's conqueror, *Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab permitted the Jews to return and allowed them to construct a small synagogue* within the Herodian precinct.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Christian City
> 
> Christian Crusader Godfrey de Bouillon took Hebron and renamed it "Castellion Saint Abraham".[72] It was designated capital of the southern district of the Crusader Kingdom[73] and given to the bishop Gerard of Avesnes, as the fief of Saint Abraham,[74] As a Frankish garrison of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, its defence was precarious being 'little more than an island in a Moslem ocean'.[75] *The Crusaders converted the mosque and the synagogue into a church. In 1106*,
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> "The Kurdish Muslim Saladin retook Hebron in 1187  again with Jewish assistance according to one late tradition, in exchange for a letter of security allowing them to return to the city and build a synagogue there.[83] The name of the city was changed back to Al-Khalil.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> During the Ottoman rule "Hebron was 'deeply Bedouin and Islamic',[136] and 'bleakly conservative' in its religious outlook,[137] with a strong tradition of hostility to Jews.[138][139] It had a reputation for religious zeal in jealously protecting its sites from Jews and Christians, but both the Jewish and Christian communities were apparently well integrated into the town's economic life.[99] "
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Muslim City
> 
> The British occupied Hebron on 8 December 1917. *Most of Hebron was owned by old Islamic charitable endowments (waqfs), with about 60% of all the land in and around Hebron belonging to the Tam&#299;m al-D&#257;r&#299; waqf.*[143] In 1922, its population stood at 17,000.
> 
> Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next you will be saying that Jerusalem was a muslim city during the reign of King David
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
Click to expand...


Actually it isn't.
The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures which the Romans did not burn to a crisp.
In fact, they accepted it as history to the extent that many of them (about 20%) converted to Judaism and it was referred to by "Paul" (Saul of Tarsus) to bolster his new version of Judaism which, of course, became Christianity.


----------



## montelatici

"The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures"

Yeah right.  Fairy tales you mean.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> "The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures"
> 
> Yeah right.  Fairy tales you mean.


Do you happen to have a copy of the Palestinian historical record that goes back as far as Abraham?


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures"
> 
> Yeah right.  Fairy tales you mean.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have a copy of the Palestinian historical record that goes back as far as Abraham?
Click to expand...


among the dead sea scrolls were other documents like accounts, wills, letters, lists and information of daily life.
Even within religious text we get a glimpse into how people lived, what crops they grew, what laws or judgements were issued.

Josephus histories, talmud, fragments of other writing on stone, ceramic, wood, cave walls, what ever was available gives us information about hunting, wars, the ecology, medicine, death rituals, etc., we have so much to draw from.  Even myths and fairy tales usually have a grain of truth behind them.

We shouldn't dismiss everything as non-factual because of a source or time period.  Even myths and stories have something important to impart to the listener/reader.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Did you even bother reading my links??


I always read your links.





toastman said:


> They all have to do with Arab attacks against Jews way before Israel even became a state.


But only one of them occurred before the Zionist migration.

And even in that one, after the whacko cleric got his ya-ya's out on that soap box, many Jews sought refuge with their arab neighbors.



> _From your own link:
> Safed had been severely damaged by an earthquake in May of that year, and following the uprising attacks broke out on the weaker members of Palestinian towns, namely the Jews and Christians. It was in this setting that the plunder at Safed was unleashed, causing *many Jews to seek refuge among friendly Arabs in the neighbouring town of Ein Zeitim.*
> 
> 12 year-old Jacob Saphir was among a number of refugees* who found sanctuary in the adjacent village of Ein al-Zeitun assisted by a sympathetic Arab sheikh.*_


All the other examples you posted occurred after the Zionist migration into Palestine.




toastman said:


> Using your logic, maybe these attacks are the reason Jews started treating them like shit.


That's not my logic.  My logic is you posted one attack in 1834 and they went almost 100 years before another outbreak of violence.  And that "outbreak", occurred AFTER Zionists migrated into the area, bringing with them, racism, apartheid and violence against arabs.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you even bother reading my links??
> 
> 
> 
> I always read your links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They all have to do with Arab attacks against Jews way before Israel even became a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But only one of them occurred before the Zionist migration.
> 
> And even in that one, after the whacko cleric got his ya-ya's out on that soap box, many Jews sought refuge with their arab neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _From your own link:
> Safed had been severely damaged by an earthquake in May of that year, and following the uprising attacks broke out on the weaker members of Palestinian towns, namely the Jews and Christians. It was in this setting that the plunder at Safed was unleashed, causing *many Jews to seek refuge among friendly Arabs in the neighbouring town of Ein Zeitim.*
> 
> 12 year-old Jacob Saphir was among a number of refugees* who found sanctuary in the adjacent village of Ein al-Zeitun assisted by a sympathetic Arab sheikh.*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All the other examples you posted occurred after the Zionist migration into Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using your logic, maybe these attacks are the reason Jews started treating them like shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not my logic.  My logic is you posted one attack in 1834 and they went almost 100 years before another outbreak of violence.  And that "outbreak", occurred AFTER Zionists migrated into the area, bringing with them, racism, apartheid and violence against arabs.
Click to expand...

Clearly the village idiot doesn't know what he's talking about.  The "whacko cleric" aka the Nazi Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, caused the death of over 400,000 Jews.  Now you know.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> "The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures"
> 
> Yeah right.  Fairy tales you mean.


You mean like the fairy tale in your Koran where MOHOMOD dies, and his rotting soul flies on a magic carpet to "the far away mosque over there" aka the definition of what the Al Aqsa mosque means, and suddenly...this "over there" means Jerusalem, yet your MOHOMOD never set his foot in Jerusalem?  Yup.  How stupid the Muslim claim is.

Just what religious and spiritual rights do Muslims have, other than they invaded the land?  NOTHING.


----------



## Indeependent

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures"
> 
> Yeah right.  Fairy tales you mean.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the fairy tale in your Koran where MOHOMOD dies, and his rotting soul flies on a magic carpet to "the far away mosque over there" aka the definition of what the Al Aqsa mosque means, and suddenly...this "over there" means Jerusalem, yet your MOHOMOD never set his foot in Jerusalem?  Yup.  How stupid the Muslim claim is.
> 
> Just what religious and spiritual rights do Muslims have, other than they invaded the land?  NOTHING.
Click to expand...


I see you have an issue with magic carpets and mass murderers.
Chill.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Clearly the village idiot doesn't know what he's talking about.  The "whacko cleric" aka the Nazi Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, caused the death of over 400,000 Jews.  Now you know.
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


You can't tell the difference between the 18th and 19th century and say I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about?


----------



## aris2chat

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you even bother reading my links??
> 
> 
> 
> I always read your links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They all have to do with Arab attacks against Jews way before Israel even became a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But only one of them occurred before the Zionist migration.
> 
> And even in that one, after the whacko cleric got his ya-ya's out on that soap box, many Jews sought refuge with their arab neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _From your own link:
> Safed had been severely damaged by an earthquake in May of that year, and following the uprising attacks broke out on the weaker members of Palestinian towns, namely the Jews and Christians. It was in this setting that the plunder at Safed was unleashed, causing *many Jews to seek refuge among friendly Arabs in the neighbouring town of Ein Zeitim.*
> 
> 12 year-old Jacob Saphir was among a number of refugees* who found sanctuary in the adjacent village of Ein al-Zeitun assisted by a sympathetic Arab sheikh.*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All the other examples you posted occurred after the Zionist migration into Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using your logic, maybe these attacks are the reason Jews started treating them like shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not my logic.  My logic is you posted one attack in 1834 and they went almost 100 years before another outbreak of violence.  And that "outbreak", occurred AFTER Zionists migrated into the area, bringing with them, racism, apartheid and violence against arabs.
Click to expand...


Jews were attacked about ever 50 years over the course of more than 6 centuries.  It was hardly one attack in the 19th century, nor was it triggered by zionist movement.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim city?  Ha ha ha.  Nice try.  Hebron has always been a Jewish city and always will be.  Arabs are just invaders, period, end of story.
> 
> F*rom Biblical Times to 1967*
> 
> Numbers 13:22 states that (Canaanite) Hebron was founded seven years before the Egyptian town of Zoan, i.e. around 1720 BCE, and the ancient (Canaanite and Israelite) city of Hebron was situated at Tel Rumeida. The city's history has been inseparably linked with the Cave of Machpelah, which the Patriarch Abraham purchased from Ephron the Hittite for 400 silver shekels (Genesis 23), as a family tomb. As recorded in Genesis, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebekah and Leah, are buried there, and  according to a Jewish tradition  Adam and Eve are also buried there.
> 
> Hebron is mentioned 87 times in the Bible, and is the world's oldest Jewish community. Joshua assigned Hebron to Caleb from the tribe of Judah (Joshua 14:13-14), who subsequently led his tribe in conquering the city and its environs (Judges 1:1-20). As Joshua 14:15 notes, "the former name of Hebron was Kiryat Arba..."
> 
> Following the death of King Saul, God instructed David to go to Hebron, where he was anointed King of Judah (II Samuel 2:1-4). A little more than 7.5 years later, David was anointed King over all Israel, in Hebron (II Samuel 5:1-3).
> 
> The city was part of the united kingdom and  later  the southern Kingdom of Judah, until the latter fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Despite the loss of Jewish independence, Jews continued to live in Hebron (Nehemiah 11:25), and the city was later incorporated into the (Jewish) Hasmonean kingdom by John Hyrcanus. King Herod (reigned 37-4 BCE) built the base of the present structure  the 12 meter high wall  over the Tomb the Patriarchs.
> 
> The city was the scene of extensive fighting during the Jewish Revolt against the Romans (65-70, see Josephus 4:529, 554), but Jews continued to live there after the Revolt, through the later Bar Kochba Revolt (132-135 CE), and into the Byzantine period. The remains of a synagogue from the Byzantine period have been excavated in the city, and the Byzantines built a large church over the Tomb of the Patriarchs, incorporating the pre- existing Herodian structure.
> 
> Jews continued to live in Hebron after the city's conquest by the Arabs (in 638), whose generally tolerant rule was welcomed, especially after the often harsh Byzantine rule  although the Byzantines never forbade Jews from praying at the Tomb. The Arabs converted the Byzantine church at the Tomb the Patriarchs into a mosque.
> 
> Upon capturing the city in 1100, the Crusaders expelled the Jewish community, and converted the mosque at the Tomb back into a church. The Jewish community was re-established following the Mamelukes' conquest of the city in 1260, and the Mamelukes reconverted the church at the Tomb of the Patriarchs back into a mosque. However, the restored Islamic (Mameluke) ascendancy was less tolerant than the pre-Crusader Islamic (Arab) regimes  a 1266 decree barred Jews (and Christians) from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs, allowing them only to ascend to the fifth, later the seventh, step outside the eastern wall. The Jewish cemetery -- on a hill west of the Tomb  was first mentioned in a letter dated to 1290.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533. In 1540, Jewish exiles from Spain acquired the site of the "Court of the Jews" and built the Avraham Avinu ("Abraham Our Father") synagogue. (One year  according to local legend  when the requisite quorum for prayer was lacking, the Patriarch Abraham himself appeared to complete the quorum; hence, the name of the synagogue.)
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note.
> 
> In 1775, the Hebron Jewish community was rocked by a blood libel, in which Jews were falsely accused of murdering the son of a local sheikh. The community -- which was largely sustained by donations from abroad -- was made to pay a crushing fine, which further worsened its already shaky economic situation. Despite its poverty, the community managed, in 1807, to purchase a 5-dunam plot -- upon which the city's wholesale market stands today -- and after several years the sale was recognized by the Hebron Waqf. In 1811, 800 dunams of land were acquired to expand the cemetery. In 1817, the Jewish community numbered approximately 500, and by 1838, it had grown to 700, despite a pogrom which took place in 1834, during Mohammed Ali's rebellion against the Ottomans (1831-1840).
> 
> In 1870, a wealthy Turkish Jew, Haim Yisrael Romano, moved to Hebron and purchased a plot of land upon which his family built a large residence and guest house, which came to be called Beit Romano. The building later housed a synagogue and served as a yeshiva, before it was seized by the Turks. During the Mandatory period, the building served the British administration as a police station, remand center, and court house.
> 
> In 1893, the building later known as Beit Hadassah was built by the Hebron Jewish community as a clinic, and a second floor was added in 1909. The American Zionist Hadassah organization contributed the salaries of the clinic's medical staff, who served both the city's Jewish and Arab populations.
> 
> During World War I, before the British occupation, the Jewish community suffered greatly under the wartime Turkish administration. Young men were forcibly conscripted into the Turkish army, overseas financial assistance was cut off, and the community was threatened by hunger and disease. However, with the establishment of the British administration in 1918, the community, reduced to 430 people, began to recover. In 1925, Rabbi Mordechai Epstein established a new yeshiva, and by 1929, the population had risen to 700 again.
> 
> On August 23, 1929, local Arabs devastated the Jewish community by perpetrating a vicious, large-scale, organized, pogrom. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica:
> 
> "The assault was well planned and its aim was well defined: the elimination of the Jewish settlement of Hebron. The rioters did not spare women, children, or the aged; the British gave passive assent. Sixty-seven were killed, 60 wounded, the community was destroyed, synagogues razed, and Torah scrolls burned."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You provide no link because you are posting bullshit from a Jewish propaganda site. Encyclopedia Judaica, come on, the only person you are fooling is yourself.
> 
> I post facts with links.  Hebron hasn't been Jewish for over 2,000 years and was probably Caanite for a longer time than Jewish if you want to go back that far.
Click to expand...





 So Hebron was a muslim city during the Roman rule of the Holy land was it, can you provide the evidence to support this claim ?


----------



## Phoenall

Roudy said:


> Since when did the cave where Jewish prophets were buried become a Muslim Holy site?  Wow... the bullshit that Muslims believe in is astounding.






 Them thieving muslims steal everything and claim it as their own. They stole Greek medicine and Assyrian arithmetic


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I figure going back to Roman rule is far enough back.  Historical record before the Romans is a little sketchy.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim city?  Ha ha ha.  Nice try.  Hebron has always been a Jewish city and always will be.  Arabs are just invaders, period, end of story.
> 
> F*rom Biblical Times to 1967*
> 
> Numbers 13:22 states that (Canaanite) Hebron was founded seven years before the Egyptian town of Zoan, i.e. around 1720 BCE, and the ancient (Canaanite and Israelite) city of Hebron was situated at Tel Rumeida. The city's history has been inseparably linked with the Cave of Machpelah, which the Patriarch Abraham purchased from Ephron the Hittite for 400 silver shekels (Genesis 23), as a family tomb. As recorded in Genesis, the Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Matriarchs Sarah, Rebekah and Leah, are buried there, and  according to a Jewish tradition  Adam and Eve are also buried there.
> 
> Hebron is mentioned 87 times in the Bible, and is the world's oldest Jewish community. Joshua assigned Hebron to Caleb from the tribe of Judah (Joshua 14:13-14), who subsequently led his tribe in conquering the city and its environs (Judges 1:1-20). As Joshua 14:15 notes, "the former name of Hebron was Kiryat Arba..."
> 
> Following the death of King Saul, God instructed David to go to Hebron, where he was anointed King of Judah (II Samuel 2:1-4). A little more than 7.5 years later, David was anointed King over all Israel, in Hebron (II Samuel 5:1-3).
> 
> The city was part of the united kingdom and  later  the southern Kingdom of Judah, until the latter fell to the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Despite the loss of Jewish independence, Jews continued to live in Hebron (Nehemiah 11:25), and the city was later incorporated into the (Jewish) Hasmonean kingdom by John Hyrcanus. King Herod (reigned 37-4 BCE) built the base of the present structure  the 12 meter high wall  over the Tomb the Patriarchs.
> 
> The city was the scene of extensive fighting during the Jewish Revolt against the Romans (65-70, see Josephus 4:529, 554), but Jews continued to live there after the Revolt, through the later Bar Kochba Revolt (132-135 CE), and into the Byzantine period. The remains of a synagogue from the Byzantine period have been excavated in the city, and the Byzantines built a large church over the Tomb of the Patriarchs, incorporating the pre- existing Herodian structure.
> 
> Jews continued to live in Hebron after the city's conquest by the Arabs (in 638), whose generally tolerant rule was welcomed, especially after the often harsh Byzantine rule  although the Byzantines never forbade Jews from praying at the Tomb. The Arabs converted the Byzantine church at the Tomb the Patriarchs into a mosque.
> 
> Upon capturing the city in 1100, the Crusaders expelled the Jewish community, and converted the mosque at the Tomb back into a church. The Jewish community was re-established following the Mamelukes' conquest of the city in 1260, and the Mamelukes reconverted the church at the Tomb of the Patriarchs back into a mosque. However, the restored Islamic (Mameluke) ascendancy was less tolerant than the pre-Crusader Islamic (Arab) regimes  a 1266 decree barred Jews (and Christians) from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs, allowing them only to ascend to the fifth, later the seventh, step outside the eastern wall. The Jewish cemetery -- on a hill west of the Tomb  was first mentioned in a letter dated to 1290.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks' conquest of the city in 1517 was marked by a violent pogrom which included many deaths, rapes, and the plundering of Jewish homes. The surviving Jews fled to Beirut and did not return until 1533. In 1540, Jewish exiles from Spain acquired the site of the "Court of the Jews" and built the Avraham Avinu ("Abraham Our Father") synagogue. (One year  according to local legend  when the requisite quorum for prayer was lacking, the Patriarch Abraham himself appeared to complete the quorum; hence, the name of the synagogue.)
> 
> Despite the events of 1517, its general poverty and a devastating plague in 1619, the Hebron Jewish community grew. Throughout the Turkish period (1517-1917), groups of Jews from other parts of the Land of Israel, and the Diaspora, moved to Hebron from time to time, joining the existing community, and the city became a rabbinic center of note.
> 
> In 1775, the Hebron Jewish community was rocked by a blood libel, in which Jews were falsely accused of murdering the son of a local sheikh. The community -- which was largely sustained by donations from abroad -- was made to pay a crushing fine, which further worsened its already shaky economic situation. Despite its poverty, the community managed, in 1807, to purchase a 5-dunam plot -- upon which the city's wholesale market stands today -- and after several years the sale was recognized by the Hebron Waqf. In 1811, 800 dunams of land were acquired to expand the cemetery. In 1817, the Jewish community numbered approximately 500, and by 1838, it had grown to 700, despite a pogrom which took place in 1834, during Mohammed Ali's rebellion against the Ottomans (1831-1840).
> 
> In 1870, a wealthy Turkish Jew, Haim Yisrael Romano, moved to Hebron and purchased a plot of land upon which his family built a large residence and guest house, which came to be called Beit Romano. The building later housed a synagogue and served as a yeshiva, before it was seized by the Turks. During the Mandatory period, the building served the British administration as a police station, remand center, and court house.
> 
> In 1893, the building later known as Beit Hadassah was built by the Hebron Jewish community as a clinic, and a second floor was added in 1909. The American Zionist Hadassah organization contributed the salaries of the clinic's medical staff, who served both the city's Jewish and Arab populations.
> 
> During World War I, before the British occupation, the Jewish community suffered greatly under the wartime Turkish administration. Young men were forcibly conscripted into the Turkish army, overseas financial assistance was cut off, and the community was threatened by hunger and disease. However, with the establishment of the British administration in 1918, the community, reduced to 430 people, began to recover. In 1925, Rabbi Mordechai Epstein established a new yeshiva, and by 1929, the population had risen to 700 again.
> 
> On August 23, 1929, local Arabs devastated the Jewish community by perpetrating a vicious, large-scale, organized, pogrom. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica:
> 
> "The assault was well planned and its aim was well defined: the elimination of the Jewish settlement of Hebron. The rioters did not spare women, children, or the aged; the British gave passive assent. Sixty-seven were killed, 60 wounded, the community was destroyed, synagogues razed, and Torah scrolls burned."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You provide no link because you are posting bullshit from a Jewish propaganda site. Encyclopedia Judaica, come on, the only person you are fooling is yourself.
> 
> I post facts with links.  Hebron hasn't been Jewish for over 2,000 years and was probably Caanite for a longer time than Jewish if you want to go back that far.
Click to expand...


You need a link to a bible?
You want a link to the information about Hebron?
https://sites.google.com/site/misju...quinta-decada/1997---acuerdo-de-hebron-17-ene

I told you before, don't dismiss information just because of a web site.  The same information can be found elsewhere.  The facts can be correct, it is your prejudice that is in error.
As for jewish ties to the town, Abraham purchased land for burial.  It is the second more holy place beside the temple site for jews.  It is the source of their heritage, the beginning of their history and religion.  How much more jewish can it get?


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> Jews were attacked about ever 50 years over the course of more than 6 centuries.  It was hardly one attack in the 19th century, nor was it triggered by zionist movement.


Then why is it, *Toasty* was only able to pony up one incident of major violence, prior to the aforementioned migration?


----------



## MrMax

*Who Are The Palestinains?*

They are the low end of the arab totem pole, even their own arab brethren won't help them. Why is that?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

MrMax said:


> *Who Are The Palestinains?*
> 
> They are the low end of the arab totem pole, even their own arab brethren won't help them. Why is that?



It makes Israel look bad.  Their arab brethren use them as a scapegoat.  And the Palestinians know it too so they play on it with their disgusting victim and gimmee gimmee gimmee mentality.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures"
> 
> Yeah right.  Fairy tales you mean.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the fairy tale in your Koran where MOHOMOD dies, and his rotting soul flies on a magic carpet to "the far away mosque over there" aka the definition of what the Al Aqsa mosque means, and suddenly...this "over there" means Jerusalem, yet your MOHOMOD never set his foot in Jerusalem?  Yup.  How stupid the Muslim claim is.
> 
> Just what religious and spiritual rights do Muslims have, other than they invaded the land?  NOTHING.
Click to expand...


Of course the Koran is a fairy tale too.  What's your point?


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were attacked about ever 50 years over the course of more than 6 centuries.  It was hardly one attack in the 19th century, nor was it triggered by zionist movement.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why is it, *Toasty* was only able to pony up one incident of major violence, prior to the aforementioned migration?
Click to expand...

Because that one incident (act of genocide) triggered a civil war between the Jews and Arabs, which the Jews won.   Muslims cannot coexist with anybody.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The historical record was The Jewish Scriptures"
> 
> Yeah right.  Fairy tales you mean.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the fairy tale in your Koran where MOHOMOD dies, and his rotting soul flies on a magic carpet to "the far away mosque over there" aka the definition of what the Al Aqsa mosque means, and suddenly...this "over there" means Jerusalem, yet your MOHOMOD never set his foot in Jerusalem?  Yup.  How stupid the Muslim claim is.
> 
> Just what religious and spiritual rights do Muslims have, other than they invaded the land?  NOTHING.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course the Koran is a fairy tale too.  What's your point?
Click to expand...

But unlike the two books it tried to copy from, it's a much more violent, intolerant one written by an illiterate terrorist.


----------



## MJB12741

Yes their Arab brothers used & abused the Palestinians.  In fact, Arafat got them massacred over & over again by their Arab brothers.  But if anyone thinks that's so bad just consider what Israel does to them with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel instead of trying to free them somewhere from this brutal Zionist agenda.




Sweet_Caroline said:


> MrMax said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Who Are The Palestinains?*
> 
> They are the low end of the arab totem pole, even their own arab brethren won't help them. Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It makes Israel look bad.  Their arab brethren use them as a scapegoat.  And the Palestinians know it too so they play on it with their disgusting victim and gimmee gimmee gimmee mentality.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the fairy tale in your Koran where MOHOMOD dies, and his rotting soul flies on a magic carpet to "the far away mosque over there" aka the definition of what the Al Aqsa mosque means, and suddenly...this "over there" means Jerusalem, yet your MOHOMOD never set his foot in Jerusalem?  Yup.  How stupid the Muslim claim is.
> 
> Just what religious and spiritual rights do Muslims have, other than they invaded the land?  NOTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the Koran is a fairy tale too.  What's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But unlike the two books it tried to copy from, it's a much more violent, intolerant one written by an illiterate terrorist.
Click to expand...


The Old Testament is far more violent than the Koran.  It is full of instructions to commit Genocide on non-Jews, parents killing children etc.

Again, fairy tales, so it really is unimportant.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the Koran is a fairy tale too.  What's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> But unlike the two books it tried to copy from, it's a much more violent, intolerant one written by an illiterate terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Old Testament is far more violent than the Koran.  It is full of instructions to commit Genocide on non-Jews, parents killing children etc.
> 
> Again, fairy tales, so it really is unimportant.
Click to expand...

And yet, Jews have been the one of the most peaceful people in history.  Laying the foundation for morality and justice for human civilization.  Ten Commandments, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet thy neighbors possessions....

Muslims?  Not so much.  Their holy book is actually a blue print for Arab imperialism.  

True story.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the Koran is a fairy tale too.  What's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> But unlike the two books it tried to copy from, it's a much more violent, intolerant one written by an illiterate terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Old Testament is far more violent than the Koran.  It is full of instructions to commit Genocide on non-Jews, parents killing children etc.
> 
> Again, fairy tales, so it really is unimportant.
Click to expand...





 Yet by the 7C most religions had already went past such commands and ignored them completely. Now 1400 later the muslims are still practising mass murder in the name of their moon god, and you try to defend their actions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But unlike the two books it tried to copy from, it's a much more violent, intolerant one written by an illiterate terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Old Testament is far more violent than the Koran.  It is full of instructions to commit Genocide on non-Jews, parents killing children etc.
> 
> Again, fairy tales, so it really is unimportant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet, Jews have been the one of the most peaceful people in history.  Laying the foundation for morality and justice for human civilization. * Ten Commandments, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet thy neighbors possessions....
> *
> Muslims?  Not so much.  Their holy book is actually a blue print for Arab imperialism.
> 
> True story.
Click to expand...


Israel is a serial violator of all of those.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Old Testament is far more violent than the Koran.  It is full of instructions to commit Genocide on non-Jews, parents killing children etc.
> 
> Again, fairy tales, so it really is unimportant.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, Jews have been the one of the most peaceful people in history.  Laying the foundation for morality and justice for human civilization. * Ten Commandments, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet thy neighbors possessions....
> *
> Muslims?  Not so much.  Their holy book is actually a blue print for Arab imperialism.
> 
> True story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a serial violator of all of those.
Click to expand...

And Palestinian Muslims are walking around with halos over their heads.  Especially their leaders, Arafat and Hamas.  Such fine examples or morality and great leadership.  

Seriously, do you believe in the crap you post here?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, Jews have been the one of the most peaceful people in history.  Laying the foundation for morality and justice for human civilization. * Ten Commandments, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet thy neighbors possessions....
> *
> Muslims?  Not so much.  Their holy book is actually a blue print for Arab imperialism.
> 
> True story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a serial violator of all of those.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Palestinian Muslims are walking around with halos over their heads.  Especially their leaders, Arafat and Hamas.  Such fine examples or morality and great leadership.
> 
> Seriously, do you believe in the crap you post here?
Click to expand...


Then why are you deflecting?


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, Jews have been the one of the most peaceful people in history.  Laying the foundation for morality and justice for human civilization. * Ten Commandments, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet thy neighbors possessions....
> *
> Muslims?  Not so much.  Their holy book is actually a blue print for Arab imperialism.
> 
> True story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a serial violator of all of those.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Palestinian Muslims are walking around with halos over their heads.  Especially their leaders, Arafat and Hamas.  Such fine examples or morality and great leadership.
> 
> Seriously, do you believe in the crap you post here?
Click to expand...


I agree with you,  the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are just as immoral as the Jewish Israelis


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a serial violator of all of those.
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian Muslims are walking around with halos over their heads.  Especially their leaders, Arafat and Hamas.  Such fine examples or morality and great leadership.
> 
> Seriously, do you believe in the crap you post here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why are you deflecting?
Click to expand...

Deflecting what? You totally went off topic with that response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?



> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel



Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a serial violator of all of those.
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian Muslims are walking around with halos over their heads.  Especially their leaders, Arafat and Hamas.  Such fine examples or morality and great leadership.
> 
> Seriously, do you believe in the crap you post here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with you,  the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are just as immoral as the Jewish Israelis
Click to expand...

That wasn't the topic.  We were discussing the various "fairy tales"  and their effects on the believers of those fairy tales and history.

  But FYI, you have immorality, and then you have immorality.  The Palestinians and especially Hamas are on a totally different level of deprivation and inhumanity than Western countries and Israel.  You are talking about a culture that sees nothing wrong in recruiting it's young into blowing itself up in schools, movie theaters and restaurants.  It takes a special psycho mentality that only Islam can produce today.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?
Click to expand...

Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Palestinian Muslims are walking around with halos over their heads.  Especially their leaders, Arafat and Hamas.  Such fine examples or morality and great leadership.
> 
> Seriously, do you believe in the crap you post here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you,  the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are just as immoral as the Jewish Israelis
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the topic.  We were discussing the various "fairy tales"  and their effects on the believers of those fairy tales and history.
> 
> But FYI, you have immorality, and then you have immorality.  The Palestinians and especially Hamas are on a totally different level of deprivation and inhumanity than Western countries and Israel.  You are talking about a culture that sees nothing wrong in recruiting it's young into blowing itself up in schools, movie theaters and restaurants.  It takes a special psycho mentality that only Islam can produce today.
Click to expand...


It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.  And, don't you include Israel as anywhere similar morality-wise to a Western country.  Western countries repudiated colonialism and the oppression of people because of their religion a long time ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.
Click to expand...




> As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as Others,146 mainly Druze, Bahai and Samiritans  all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507)  2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel



Jewish Palestine?


----------



## Roudy

> It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.



Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings praying that Israel will actually kill innocent people, without sending leaflets or warning them, like the Israelis do.  

Like I said convert, your Palestinians in the depths of depravity.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings praying that Israel will actually kill innocent people, without sending leaflets or warning them, like the Israelis do.
> 
> Like I said convert, your Palestinians in the depths of depravity.
Click to expand...


"Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings"

Even if it were true, why would the Palestinians have to fire at attacking Israeli aircraft, if Israel was not doing the attacking?

The Israelis have a 10/20 to 1 or so kill ratio of civilians.  For every Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinians 10 to 20 Palestinian civilians are killed by the Jews.  Who are the murderous animals?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as Others,146 mainly Druze, Bahai and Samiritans  all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507)  2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
Click to expand...

Yup, voted unanimously by 51 member states:

*LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE FOR PALESTINE (Eretz-Israel) *
TOGETHER WITH A

NOTE BY THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
RELATING TO ITS APPLICATION TO THE
TERRITORY KNOWN AS TRANS-JORDAN,
under the provisions of Article 25

Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty,
December, 1922.

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and

Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and

Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings praying that Israel will actually kill innocent people, without sending leaflets or warning them, like the Israelis do.
> 
> Like I said convert, your Palestinians in the depths of depravity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings"
> 
> Even if it were true, why would the Palestinians have to fire at attacking Israeli aircraft, if Israel was not doing the attacking?
> 
> The Israelis have a 10/20 to 1 or so kill ratio of civilians.  For every Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinians 10 to 20 Palestinian civilians are killed by the Jews.  Who are the murderous animals?
Click to expand...

Oh but its more than true.  Israelis were human enough to pass out leaflets and make phone calls.  Palestinian animals on the other hand pray they can kill more Jewish children.  They are a sick, barbaric depraved culture, with no respect for life.  Here are the animals you adore and falsely compare:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkAuvIQTzWU]Miss Ahlam Tamimi murders 15 in Jerusalem, Israel ~ NO REGRETS - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as Others,146 mainly Druze, Bahai and Samiritans  all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507)  2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yup, voted unanimously by 51 member states:
> 
> *LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE FOR PALESTINE (Eretz-Israel) *
> TOGETHER WITH A
> 
> NOTE BY THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
> RELATING TO ITS APPLICATION TO THE
> TERRITORY KNOWN AS TRANS-JORDAN,
> under the provisions of Article 25
> 
> Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty,
> December, 1922.
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
> 
> Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
Click to expand...


And that flopped big time.

None of that had anything to do with the creation of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings praying that Israel will actually kill innocent people, without sending leaflets or warning them, like the Israelis do.
> 
> Like I said convert, your Palestinians in the depths of depravity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings"
> 
> Even if it were true, why would the Palestinians have to fire at attacking Israeli aircraft, if Israel was not doing the attacking?
> 
> The Israelis have a 10/20 to 1 or so kill ratio of civilians.  For every Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinians 10 to 20 Palestinian civilians are killed by the Jews.  Who are the murderous animals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh but its more than true.  Israelis were human enough to pass out leaflets and make phone calls.  Palestinian animals on the other hand pray they can kill more Jewish children.  They are a sick, barbaric depraved culture, with no respect for life.  Here are the animals you adore and falsely compare:
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkAuvIQTzWU]Miss Ahlam Tamimi murders 15 in Jerusalem, Israel ~ NO REGRETS - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.

NO REGRETS!

What is your point?


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as Others,146 mainly Druze, Bahai and Samiritans  all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507)  2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yup, voted unanimously by 51 member states:
> 
> *LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE FOR PALESTINE (Eretz-Israel) *
> TOGETHER WITH A
> 
> NOTE BY THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
> RELATING TO ITS APPLICATION TO THE
> TERRITORY KNOWN AS TRANS-JORDAN,
> under the provisions of Article 25
> 
> Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty,
> December, 1922.
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
> 
> Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
Click to expand...


Why do you leave the most important part out?  Why are you so childish.  You think we wouldn't see it.  What a little punk you are. Read the bold print over and over again.  

The UN's partition plan, creating a gerrymandered area where Jews would have a slight majority, allowing Jews to rule over Christians and Muslims, contravened the terms of the Mandate.  Having Jews rule over Christians and Muslims "might" have (and the word in the Mandate is "might") prejudiced "the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"

"....Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,* it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,* or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and...."


----------



## aris2chat

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But unlike the two books it tried to copy from, it's a much more violent, intolerant one written by an illiterate terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Old Testament is far more violent than the Koran.  It is full of instructions to commit Genocide on non-Jews, parents killing children etc.
> 
> Again, fairy tales, so it really is unimportant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet, Jews have been the one of the most peaceful people in history.  Laying the foundation for morality and justice for human civilization.  Ten Commandments, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet thy neighbors possessions....
> 
> Muslims?  Not so much.  Their holy book is actually a blue print for Arab imperialism.
> 
> True story.
Click to expand...


The conquest and sacking of cities was over stated, though at the time they could well believe it was god's work.  Earthquakes damaged or destroyed most of the cites from norther Turkey down through arabia.  
Towns may well have been destroyed and vacated prior to the Israelites arrival.  God did the work for them.  With wall crumbling from the earthquake(s) the people in towns still populated might simply have surrendered.
"The conclusions are limited by bronze age knowledge, the stories are exaggerated and repeated/preserved to explain/inspired by their god."  To remember, to achieve it's purpose, a story has to capture the interest of the listener.
Attributing the advances and successes across the land as being from god was rational for them.  It seemed to have been miraculous.

We can explain major event in the bible scientifically, but ancient people used an awesome omnipotent god.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, voted unanimously by 51 member states:
> 
> *LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE FOR PALESTINE (Eretz-Israel) *
> TOGETHER WITH A
> 
> NOTE BY THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
> RELATING TO ITS APPLICATION TO THE
> TERRITORY KNOWN AS TRANS-JORDAN,
> under the provisions of Article 25
> 
> Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty,
> December, 1922.
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
> 
> Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you leave the most important part out?  Why are you so childish.  You think we wouldn't see it.  What a little punk you are. Read the bold print over and over again.
> 
> The UN's partition plan, creating a gerrymandered area where Jews would have a slight majority, allowing Jews to rule over Christians and Muslims, contravened the terms of the Mandate.  Having Jews rule over Christians and Muslims "might" have (and the word in the Mandate is "might") prejudiced "the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"
> 
> "....Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,* it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,* or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and...."
Click to expand...

*? Palestine (Land of Israel) ?*


----------



## MJB12741

Eh Tinmore, got news for you.  Long before there were any Muslims at all let alone Muslim Palestinians, there were the indigenous Palestinian Jews.  Hurts huh?





P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as Others,146 mainly Druze, Bahai and Samiritans  all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507)  2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Eh Tinmore, got news for you.  Long before there were any Muslims at all let alone Muslim Palestinians, there were the indigenous Palestinian Jews.  Hurts huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as Others,146 mainly Druze, Bahai and Samiritans  all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507)  2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings praying that Israel will actually kill innocent people, without sending leaflets or warning them, like the Israelis do.
> 
> Like I said convert, your Palestinians in the depths of depravity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings"
> 
> Even if it were true, why would the Palestinians have to fire at attacking Israeli aircraft, if Israel was not doing the attacking?
> 
> The Israelis have a 10/20 to 1 or so kill ratio of civilians.  For every Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinians 10 to 20 Palestinian civilians are killed by the Jews.  Who are the murderous animals?
Click to expand...


Murderius animals are those who walk up to a mother and kids and spray them with bullets. 
Disgusting animals are those who pass out candy and celebrate when hearing that an Israeli family was just murdered.

Military assaults against a known terrorist organization is not murder.

Why do the Palestinians and their supporters also whine about Israeli attacks when the only reason they are taking place is because Hamas and the other Islamic thugs are attacking them.
It's so fucking simple: Don't launch rockets at Israel
Don't keep weapons next to civilian building and don't plan attacks on Israel.

Palestinians can't comprehend this either because they want Israel to attack them so civilians can die and they can garner more sympathy from the world OR because they have a very small learning curve.

Don't attack Israel and your civilians won't die as a result of collateral damage. 
It really is THAT fuckin simple.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eh Tinmore, got news for you.  Long before there were any Muslims at all let alone Muslim Palestinians, there were the indigenous Palestinian Jews.  Hurts huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
Click to expand...


When Palestine the WHAT was created?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eh Tinmore, got news for you.  Long before there were any Muslims at all let alone Muslim Palestinians, there were the indigenous Palestinian Jews.  Hurts huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Palestine the WHAT was created?
Click to expand...


*It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestine the WHAT was created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say they've been living with a foot on their neck? Awwwww. Whatever for?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestine the WHAT was created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...


I asked a very simple question and all I got was a deflection.

BTW, your post war treaties created Palestine is a lie.
You keep saying for example that the Treaty of Lausanne was part of the creation of Palestine, but Palestine or Palestinians is not even mentioned in the treaty.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Because that one incident (act of genocide) triggered a civil war between the Jews and Arabs, which the Jews won.   Muslims cannot coexist with anybody.


A war?  That they waited 100 years before they started fighting?

You expect people to believe that?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> It makes Israel look bad.  Their arab brethren use them as a scapegoat.  And the Palestinians know it too so they play on it with their disgusting victim and gimmee gimmee gimmee mentality.


They didn't ask for your immoral and illegal occupation, so why did you give it to them?

Are you going to_ "...gimmee gimmee gimmee..." _an answer to that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestine the WHAT was created?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I asked a very simple question and all I got was a deflection.
> 
> BTW, your post war treaties created Palestine is a lie.
> You keep saying for example that the Treaty of Lausanne was part of the creation of Palestine, but *Palestine or Palestinians is not even mentioned in the treaty.*
Click to expand...


I never said they were. You are misunderstanding/misrepresenting what I said.

What is Palestine? That is subject to political opinion. It is called: a state, a country, a nation, a legal entity, occupied territory, non self governing territory.

The Palestinian's legal rights are the same in any instance.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestine the WHAT was created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well they tried by committing genocide on the Jews, just like the nazis, a civil war ensued and the Arabs lost the battle, after which Israel was rightfully established as the home of the Jewish people, as planned all along. 

Don't like them apples?  Awwwww.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because that one incident (act of genocide) triggered a civil war between the Jews and Arabs, which the Jews won.   Muslims cannot coexist with anybody.
> 
> 
> 
> A war?  That they waited 100 years before they started fighting?
> 
> You expect people to believe that?
Click to expand...

I expect people to respond to an act of genocide and ethnic cleansing.  Especially people who's brethren had already suffered the same in Europe under the Nazis.  Enough is enough, never again.  Jews fought back and the rest is history.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked a very simple question and all I got was a deflection.
> 
> BTW, your post war treaties created Palestine is a lie.
> You keep saying for example that the Treaty of Lausanne was part of the creation of Palestine, but *Palestine or Palestinians is not even mentioned in the treaty.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said they were. You are misunderstanding/misrepresenting what I said.
> 
> What is Palestine? That is subject to political opinion. It is called: a state, a country, a nation, a legal entity, occupied territory, non self governing territory.
> 
> The Palestinian's legal rights are the same in any instance.
Click to expand...


I never said anything about their rights. But you always talk about post war treaties creating Palestine. Palestine the what??
I'm not trying to get you to say so something so I can use it against you. I'm just asking a question.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> I expect people to respond to an act of genocide and ethnic cleansing.  Especially people who's brethren had already suffered the same in Europe under the Nazis.  Enough is enough, never again.  Jews fought back and the rest is history.


Ummm.................._*Palestinian's aren't German!*_


----------



## MJB12741

Are you serious?  Self determination for Palestinians without sucking off of Israel.  Good Lord, how can you wish that on Palestinians after we saw what happened with their "self determination" when Israel granted them Gaza.  Palestinians massacring Palestinians in record numbers.  Even I don't detest Palestinians enough to wish them "self determination."



P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestine the WHAT was created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked a very simple question and all I got was a deflection.
> 
> BTW, your post war treaties created Palestine is a lie.
> You keep saying for example that the Treaty of Lausanne was part of the creation of Palestine, but *Palestine or Palestinians is not even mentioned in the treaty.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said they were. You are misunderstanding/misrepresenting what I said.
> 
> What is Palestine? That is subject to political opinion. It is called: a state, a country, a nation, a legal entity, occupied territory, non self governing territory.
> 
> The Palestinian's legal rights are the same in any instance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said anything about their rights. But you always talk about post war treaties creating Palestine. Palestine the what??
> I'm not trying to get you to say so something so I can use it against you. I'm just asking a question.
Click to expand...


OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.

Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.

Britain occupied the territory in 1917.

The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestine&#8217;s international border with Egypt.

The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.

Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestine&#8217;s eastern international border in 1922.

Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.

However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.

As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.


----------



## Truthseeker420

jillian said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> no.... learn history...
> 
> bedouins who started a war against the jewish population of israel.
> 
> there has never been a palestine... it was a designation given to judea by it's occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no....
> 
> what was the government of palestine?
> 
> who was it's head of state?
> 
> who were the trading partners of "palestine"?
> 
> what did "palestine" manufacture/export?
> 
> until you can answer those questions, you can feel free to keep your anti-semitic lies to yourself and don't bother posting to me.
> 
> mmmmmkay?
Click to expand...





> The term "Philistine" (as well as "Palestine") comes from the Hebrew p*li&#65533;tî(m), which occurs 288 times in the OT; the term "Philistia" (p*le&#65533;et) occurs eight times. p*li&#65533;tî(m) usually is rendered as allophuloi ("strangers, foreigners") in the Greek versions, and less frequently as phulistiim; it is found in Egyptian sources as prst ("Peleset") and in Assyrian sources as pilisti and palastu.





> Philistine pentapolis in southwestern Canaan: Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Gath, and Ekron (Josh. 13:2-3). Each one was headed by a "lord" (seren). Philistine rulers were also simply called "kings." Under these lords or kings were the Philistine commanders (**rîm) mentioned above.
> 
> Along with the cities of the pentapolis, many other Canaanite cities were "Philistinized" over time to one degree or another. The cities were well-planned and laid out; some were walled (e.g., Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron), while others were not. Several were very large: Ashkelon, for example, was a thriving seaport more than 150 acres in size.





> The forms of Philistine religion that we know today conformed closely to common Canaanite religion, and their gods were common Semitic gods.



Not that you get to define what the Palestinian people are or are not...

http://people.bethel.edu/~dhoward/articles/articles2/PhilistinesPOTW.htm


----------



## Vigilante

The Israeli's had best watch themselves since this muslim is looking to give ALL their land to the fucking, dog Palestinians!


----------



## Roudy

Truthseeker420 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn a little history?
> 
> Palestinian's are the indigenous Arabs that have been living in that area for the last 2000 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no....
> 
> what was the government of palestine?
> 
> who was it's head of state?
> 
> who were the trading partners of "palestine"?
> 
> what did "palestine" manufacture/export?
> 
> until you can answer those questions, you can feel free to keep your anti-semitic lies to yourself and don't bother posting to me.
> 
> mmmmmkay?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philistine pentapolis in southwestern Canaan: Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Gath, and Ekron (Josh. 13:2-3). Each one was headed by a "lord" (seren). Philistine rulers were also simply called "kings." Under these lords or kings were the Philistine commanders (**rîm) mentioned above.
> 
> Along with the cities of the pentapolis, many other Canaanite cities were "Philistinized" over time to one degree or another. The cities were well-planned and laid out; some were walled (e.g., Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron), while others were not. Several were very large: Ashkelon, for example, was a thriving seaport more than 150 acres in size.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The forms of Philistine religion that we know today conformed closely to common Canaanite religion, and their gods were common Semitic gods.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not that you get to define what the Palestinian people are or are not...
> 
> http://people.bethel.edu/~dhoward/articles/articles2/PhilistinesPOTW.htm
Click to expand...

Philistines are an extinct people that were more Greek than anything else! 

Palestinians are Arab invaders identical to their neighboring Arabs in every way.  Actually, let me correct myself, THEY ARE their neighboring Arabs.  

BullShitSeeker strikes again!


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?
Click to expand...





 The only irrelevance is that coming from you.

 The state was the LON mandate


----------



## RoccoR

Phoenall; P F Tinmore; _et al,_

In some ways, P F Tinmore has a point; the entire question is almost irrelevant.



Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only irrelevance is that coming from you.
> 
> The state was the LON mandate
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

One could make encyclopedia length arguments all day long about Palestinian Citizenship and the implications.  But relative to the issues of the day, the importance and the consequences of who is defined as a "Palestinian" will be determined by a final agreement between the Israeli Negotiating Team and the PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department Team.  The Mandate, the Oder in Council, and the Citizenship Order, will not have all that much to do with it; other than to stand as a historical reference.

Much of the discussion on the interpretation of the documents out of the first half of the 20th Century (pre-UN) are all overtaken by events.  What was decided by the Mandatory, and the League Council, are historical -  yet in repair now.  Even the famous Resolution 181(II) is now in the category of a political attempt that did not meet the expectations of the General Assembly --- "peaceful settlement." 

Who is determined to be a "Palestinian" is --- today --- a politically loaded question.  It will have a bearing on the question in the Right of Return (RoR) issue; as well as, the post-Conflict apportionment of War Reparations, Conflict Restitution, Civil Claims of Settlement, Damage Awards, and other associated cost accumulated over the last half-Century (+).  It will have a bearing on the issue of "decedents" and the apportionment of valued restitution.  

Finally, the question of "Who is a Palestinian" begs the examination of the sequence:

Who was considered a Palestinian pre-War 1948/1949;
Who was considered a Palestinian under Israeli Independence Territory;
Who was considered a Palestinian post-War 1948/1949;
Who was considered a Palestinian post Jordanian Sovereignty (Annexation 1950), prior to November 1988, [pre-Palestinian Declaration of Independence (P-DOI)];
Who was considered a Palestinian after November 1988 (post P-DOI).
In order to reach a logical conclusion today, the entire sequence of events has to be examined and a determination made as to the effect each even had on the question.

OR --- as I said in the beginning, the final Treaty of Peace become the terminal definition.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you,  the Muslim and Christian Palestinians are just as immoral as the Jewish Israelis
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't the topic.  We were discussing the various "fairy tales"  and their effects on the believers of those fairy tales and history.
> 
> But FYI, you have immorality, and then you have immorality.  The Palestinians and especially Hamas are on a totally different level of deprivation and inhumanity than Western countries and Israel.  You are talking about a culture that sees nothing wrong in recruiting it's young into blowing itself up in schools, movie theaters and restaurants.  It takes a special psycho mentality that only Islam can produce today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.  And, don't you include Israel as anywhere similar morality-wise to a Western country.  Western countries repudiated colonialism and the oppression of people because of their religion a long time ago.
Click to expand...




 Not when you are safeguarding the lives of others and you have given the women and children ample notice to vacate the premises. It is then up to the terrorists using the building to attack Israel to evacuate the building. Read the Geneva conventions IV for the details. The Palestinian muslims give no warning of their intended attacks so making them liable for the tag of TERRORIST


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everyone arguing about irrelevance?
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of Jewish Palestine.  Nice try, no cigar.  Same repetitive drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as Others,146 mainly Druze, Bahai and Samiritans  all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507)  2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
Click to expand...





 Yes Jewish Palestine, and your link is inadmissible due to the source being some Palestinian extremist with his own agenda and a habit of altering legal documents to meet with his personal POV.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings praying that Israel will actually kill innocent people, without sending leaflets or warning them, like the Israelis do.
> 
> Like I said convert, your Palestinians in the depths of depravity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings"
> 
> Even if it were true, why would the Palestinians have to fire at attacking Israeli aircraft, if Israel was not doing the attacking?
> 
> The Israelis have a 10/20 to 1 or so kill ratio of civilians.  For every Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinians 10 to 20 Palestinian civilians are killed by the Jews.  Who are the murderous animals?
Click to expand...





 Simple child it is because the Israelis are defending against illegal chemical and biological weapons fired at their children. The Palestinian leaders would rather see the building supplies used to build smuggling tunnels that to provide shelters for the women and children which results in a higher death toll. Under the terms of the Geneva conventions IV this puts the onus for the civilian deaths on to the Palestinians making them the murderous animals.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, voted unanimously by 51 member states:
> 
> *LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE FOR PALESTINE (Eretz-Israel) *
> TOGETHER WITH A
> 
> NOTE BY THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
> RELATING TO ITS APPLICATION TO THE
> TERRITORY KNOWN AS TRANS-JORDAN,
> under the provisions of Article 25
> 
> Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty,
> December, 1922.
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
> 
> Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that flopped big time.
> 
> None of that had anything to do with the creation of Israel.
Click to expand...





 How do you work that one out fool, the San Remo conference laid down the ground rules that included a NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWS IN HISTORIC PALESTINE. Then the rest of the treaties made just reinforced this item with the full acceptance of the arab leaders. It was only when Hussieni stirred up the hornets nest that resulted in the arab invasion and the ensuing expulsion of terrorists and enemies of Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings"
> 
> Even if it were true, why would the Palestinians have to fire at attacking Israeli aircraft, if Israel was not doing the attacking?
> 
> The Israelis have a 10/20 to 1 or so kill ratio of civilians.  For every Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinians 10 to 20 Palestinian civilians are killed by the Jews.  Who are the murderous animals?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but its more than true.  Israelis were human enough to pass out leaflets and make phone calls.  Palestinian animals on the other hand pray they can kill more Jewish children.  They are a sick, barbaric depraved culture, with no respect for life.  Here are the animals you adore and falsely compare:
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkAuvIQTzWU]Miss Ahlam Tamimi murders 15 in Jerusalem, Israel ~ NO REGRETS - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.
> 
> NO REGRETS!
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...





The point is if the Palestinians stop firing illegal weapons at Israeli children then the Israeli's will not need to retaliate  belligerence. If the Palestinian leaders followed the LAWS written in the Geneva conventions then the people would not be killed.

 But the Jordanians mass murdered 50,000 Palestinians locked up in concentration camps without any regrets as an indication of just what will happen to them if they try and steal Jordans land.   Now why don't you get all upset over how Palestinians treat other Palestinians, this death toll is more in one month that Israel has yet managed in 67 years.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, voted unanimously by 51 member states:
> 
> *LEAGUE OF NATIONS MANDATE FOR PALESTINE (Eretz-Israel) *
> TOGETHER WITH A
> 
> NOTE BY THE SECRETARY-GENERAL
> RELATING TO ITS APPLICATION TO THE
> TERRITORY KNOWN AS TRANS-JORDAN,
> under the provisions of Article 25
> 
> Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty,
> December, 1922.
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people
> 
> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
> 
> Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
> 
> Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
> 
> Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you leave the most important part out?  Why are you so childish.  You think we wouldn't see it.  What a little punk you are. Read the bold print over and over again.
> 
> The UN's partition plan, creating a gerrymandered area where Jews would have a slight majority, allowing Jews to rule over Christians and Muslims, contravened the terms of the Mandate.  Having Jews rule over Christians and Muslims "might" have (and the word in the Mandate is "might") prejudiced "the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"
> 
> "....Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,* it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,* or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and...."
Click to expand...




 Which was implemented with the understanding of the relevant civil and religious rights at that time. You cant look forward in time and say " some idiot will decide that the civil and religious rights extant in the USA in 2014 were what we meant in Palestine 1921"


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eh Tinmore, got news for you.  Long before there were any Muslims at all let alone Muslim Palestinians, there were the indigenous Palestinian Jews.  Hurts huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
Click to expand...




 That is correct they became citizens of the British mandate of Palestine, or the French mandate of Palestine. This was until such a time as they showed the capability of being able to stand on their own feet and govern themselves. This was also to stop any feeling of inadequacy by the future Syrians and Jordanians when their nations were created in Palestine.    

 But you seem to want to exclude the Jews from having any civil rights or identity, in fact your idea is to exclude all Jews from the human race and make them "untermensch" like your NAZI idols did.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? When Palestine was created by post war treaties, none of that mattered. The People who normally lived there became citizens of Palestine. They did not sift through the ashes of history looking for reasons to exclude anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Palestine the WHAT was created?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...




 It does matter as it could not be a state or nation unless it was created and named as such. They were given those rights and refused them by declaring war on the Jews and Israel. They did not accept those rights until 1988 when they finally declared independence under the terms of the UN partition plan for Palestine.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> It makes Israel look bad.  Their arab brethren use them as a scapegoat.  And the Palestinians know it too so they play on it with their disgusting victim and gimmee gimmee gimmee mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't ask for your immoral and illegal occupation, so why did you give it to them?
> 
> Are you going to_ "...gimmee gimmee gimmee..." _an answer to that?
Click to expand...




 Their leaders accepted it in full because it meant two minor royal houses would get nations of their own in Syria and Jordan. They only became aggressive about the Jews getting a nation of their own when Husseini stirred up the hornets nest


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It doesn't matter. *Even people in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked a very simple question and all I got was a deflection.
> 
> BTW, your post war treaties created Palestine is a lie.
> You keep saying for example that the Treaty of Lausanne was part of the creation of Palestine, but *Palestine or Palestinians is not even mentioned in the treaty.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said they were. You are misunderstanding/misrepresenting what I said.
> 
> What is Palestine? That is subject to political opinion. It is called: a state, a country, a nation, a legal entity, occupied territory, non self governing territory.
> 
> The Palestinian's legal rights are the same in any instance.
Click to expand...




 prior to the mandate it was an undefined area under Ottoman control, at the formation of the mandate it was still an undefined area only under LoN control. It was not a nation, state or country and its inhabitants were given the only chance they ever had of creating a series of nations out of the land. These nations became Iraq, Syria, Jordan and the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS. The non Jews were offered the chance to migrate to one of the other nations, or they could stay as full citizens of the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS. At no time were their legal rights of the time violated by the creation of these 4 nations.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I expect people to respond to an act of genocide and ethnic cleansing.  Especially people who's brethren had already suffered the same in Europe under the Nazis.  Enough is enough, never again.  Jews fought back and the rest is history.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm.................._*Palestinian's aren't German!*_
Click to expand...




 Did not stop them from following one of their leaders and becoming fully fledged NAZIS


----------



## Billo_Really

jillian said:


> no....


Do not talk to me in that tone of prose.




jillian said:


> what was the government of palestine?


Doesn't matter.




jillian said:


> who was it's head of state?


Doesn't matter.




jillian said:


> who were the trading partners of "palestine"?


Doesn't matter.




jillian said:


> what did "palestine" manufacture/export?


Doesn't matter.




jillian said:


> until you can answer those questions, you can feel free to keep your anti-semitic lies to yourself and don't bother posting to me.


I'd rather be an anti-Semite, than an Israeli kiss-ass!




jillian said:


> mmmmmkay?


No, it's not okay, Ms. Hat.


Alright, pencils down and eyes to the front of the class, you're in the need for a  little schoolin'...




> _Before the partition, Jews comprised only one-third of the population of Palestine, which held some 608,000 Jews and 1,237,000 Arabs. Even within the area designated for Israel under the U.N. partition plan, the population consisted of some 500,000 Jews and 330,000 Arabs. How could a country with such a large Arab minority become a Jewish homeland?_


You got that, twisted sister?

It doesn't matter what government they had, who their leaders were, who they traded with or what name they went by, the only thing that matters, is there were over a million of them who lived there and more than half of them, were driven from their homes by Jewish terrorists.



> _ There was...a shared belief by many of the Jewish (later Israeli) military leaders during the war that the entire Palestinian population was the enemy. Acting on that belief, the Jewish militias (the official Haganah and the unofficial Stern Gang and Irgun) engaged in a consistent course of conduct that was intended to--and did--cause the Arab population to flee. *The Israeli myth that the Palestinians left on instructions from Arab leaders has long since been shown to be a fabrication*._


And if you don't believe that, then how do you explain the comments from the "fathers of Zionism"?



> _ *"there surely will be a great change in the population of the country" *
> - David Ben-Gurion, father of Israel and leader of its military, February 7, 1948 _
> 
> _* "An infiltration is bound to end badly. It continues until the inevitable moment when the native population feels itself threatened, and forces the government to stop a further influx of Jews. Immigration is consequently futile unless based on an assured supremacy."*
> - Theodor Herzl, the father of political Zionism, articulated the Zionist colonial plan in his 1896 book _Der Judenstaat_ (The Jewish State)._


BTW, Herzl wasn't referring to infiltrating Arabs.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Philistines are an extinct people that were more Greek than anything else!
> 
> Palestinians are Arab invaders identical to their neighboring Arabs in every way.  Actually, let me correct myself, THEY ARE their neighboring Arabs.
> 
> BullShitSeeker strikes again!


See above, you fucking moron, you just got debunked!


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Did not stop them from following one of their leaders and becoming fully fledged NAZIS


You're the _*"boy who cried Nazis"!*_

Everyone's a wolf to you.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said they were. You are misunderstanding/misrepresenting what I said.
> 
> What is Palestine? That is subject to political opinion. It is called: a state, a country, a nation, a legal entity, occupied territory, non self governing territory.
> 
> The Palestinian's legal rights are the same in any instance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything about their rights. But you always talk about post war treaties creating Palestine. Palestine the what??
> I'm not trying to get you to say so something so I can use it against you. I'm just asking a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
Click to expand...





 Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire 

 Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.

 The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.

 The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920

 The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922

 Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.

 The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.

 There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.


----------



## Roudy

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't the topic.  We were discussing the various "fairy tales"  and their effects on the believers of those fairy tales and history.
> 
> But FYI, you have immorality, and then you have immorality.  The Palestinians and especially Hamas are on a totally different level of deprivation and inhumanity than Western countries and Israel.  You are talking about a culture that sees nothing wrong in recruiting it's young into blowing itself up in schools, movie theaters and restaurants.  It takes a special psycho mentality that only Islam can produce today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a special psycho mentality to fire missiles into an apartment building you know women and children are sleeping in.  And, don't you include Israel as anywhere similar morality-wise to a Western country.  Western countries repudiated colonialism and the oppression of people because of their religion a long time ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when you are safeguarding the lives of others and you have given the women and children ample notice to vacate the premises. It is then up to the terrorists using the building to attack Israel to evacuate the building. Read the Geneva conventions IV for the details. The Palestinian muslims give no warning of their intended attacks so making them liable for the tag of TERRORIST
Click to expand...

But then again, Pali terrorist animals have no respect for their own people's lives.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Philistines are an extinct people that were more Greek than anything else!
> 
> Palestinians are Arab invaders identical to their neighboring Arabs in every way.  Actually, let me correct myself, THEY ARE their neighboring Arabs.
> 
> BullShitSeeker strikes again!
> 
> 
> 
> See above, you fucking moron, you just got debunked!
Click to expand...

Above what, dipstick, see below, you illiterate ignorant goofball, Philistines became extinct about three thousand years ago.  Long before any Arab invaders made it there.  Wow.

Philistines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-10th7th centuries BC: Philistines lose most of their distinctive culture and are absorbed by that of surrounding peoples.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did not stop them from following one of their leaders and becoming fully fledged NAZIS
> 
> 
> 
> You're the _*"boy who cried Nazis"!*_
> 
> Everyone's a wolf to you.
Click to expand...

Hey if it walks, talks, and acts like an IslamoNazi, then it is one. 

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## MJB12741

So very true.  And the irony is that we don't hear a single Palestinian or Palestinian supporter complaint about that.  But they bitch about Israel who actually made peace offerings to them, built a security fence & gave them their own land in Gaza so they can continue to live on the land they squatted on in Israel.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.




QUOTE=Phoenall;9036440]





P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but its more than true.  Israelis were human enough to pass out leaflets and make phone calls.  Palestinian animals on the other hand pray they can kill more Jewish children.  They are a sick, barbaric depraved culture, with no respect for life.  Here are the animals you adore and falsely compare:
> 
> Miss Ahlam Tamimi murders 15 in Jerusalem, Israel ~ NO REGRETS - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.
> 
> NO REGRETS!
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...





The point is if the Palestinians stop firing illegal weapons at Israeli children then the Israeli's will not need to retaliate  belligerence. If the Palestinian leaders followed the LAWS written in the Geneva conventions then the people would not be killed.

 But the Jordanians mass murdered 50,000 Palestinians locked up in concentration camps without any regrets as an indication of just what will happen to them if they try and steal Jordans land.   Now why don't you get all upset over how Palestinians treat other Palestinians, this death toll is more in one month that Israel has yet managed in 67 years.[/QUOTE]


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said they were. You are misunderstanding/misrepresenting what I said.
> 
> What is Palestine? That is subject to political opinion. It is called: a state, a country, a nation, a legal entity, occupied territory, non self governing territory.
> 
> The Palestinian's legal rights are the same in any instance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything about their rights. But you always talk about post war treaties creating Palestine. Palestine the what??
> I'm not trying to get you to say so something so I can use it against you. I'm just asking a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
Click to expand...


I agree with most of what you say here, as you have backed them up with links in the past that I remember.

However, I have read several links about the treaty of Lausanne and I see nothing there about releasing Palestine or other places from Turkish sovereignty.
It doesn't even mention Palestine.


----------



## Roudy

MJB12741 said:


> So very true.  And the irony is that we don't hear a single Palestinian or Palestinian supporter complaint about that.  But they bitch about Israel who actually made peace offerings to them, built a security fence & gave them their own land in Gaza so they can continue to live on the land they squatted on in Israel.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=Phoenall;9036440]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but its more than true.  Israelis were human enough to pass out leaflets and make phone calls.  Palestinian animals on the other hand pray they can kill more Jewish children.  They are a sick, barbaric depraved culture, with no respect for life.  Here are the animals you adore and falsely compare:
> 
> Miss Ahlam Tamimi murders 15 in Jerusalem, Israel ~ NO REGRETS - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.
> 
> NO REGRETS!
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is if the Palestinians stop firing illegal weapons at Israeli children then the Israeli's will not need to retaliate  belligerence. If the Palestinian leaders followed the LAWS written in the Geneva conventions then the people would not be killed.
> 
> But the Jordanians mass murdered 50,000 Palestinians locked up in concentration camps without any regrets as an indication of just what will happen to them if they try and steal Jordans land.   Now why don't you get all upset over how Palestinians treat other Palestinians, this death toll is more in one month that Israel has yet managed in 67 years.
Click to expand...

It's called Palestinian Mentality.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said they were. You are misunderstanding/misrepresenting what I said.
> 
> What is Palestine? That is subject to political opinion. It is called: a state, a country, a nation, a legal entity, occupied territory, non self governing territory.
> 
> The Palestinian's legal rights are the same in any instance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything about their rights. But you always talk about post war treaties creating Palestine. Palestine the what??
> I'm not trying to get you to say so something so I can use it against you. I'm just asking a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
Click to expand...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
two years earlier at al Aqeer the king of saudi agreed with the brits for a creation of a jewish state.


----------



## MJB12741

The danger to Palestinians is that Palestinian mentality just keeps on repeating itself.  For example, first they support Arafat to lead them by taking them from the toilet to the sewer, getting them massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers, embezzling their money & then dies from AIDS leaving the Palestinians living in ignorance & poverty with no hope for a Palestinian State.

And then what do the Palestinians do?  They actually elect Hamas to lead them.  And just look at the results so far.  Had they had any sense they could have found someone to lead them in protest like the followers of MLK did whereby they would have gained overwhelming world support in their protests against Israel.  Praise be to Allah that Palestinian mentality is what is & will never change.





Roudy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So very true.  And the irony is that we don't hear a single Palestinian or Palestinian supporter complaint about that.  But they bitch about Israel who actually made peace offerings to them, built a security fence & gave them their own land in Gaza so they can continue to live on the land they squatted on in Israel.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=Phoenall;9036440]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.
> 
> NO REGRETS!
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is if the Palestinians stop firing illegal weapons at Israeli children then the Israeli's will not need to retaliate  belligerence. If the Palestinian leaders followed the LAWS written in the Geneva conventions then the people would not be killed.
> 
> But the Jordanians mass murdered 50,000 Palestinians locked up in concentration camps without any regrets as an indication of just what will happen to them if they try and steal Jordans land.   Now why don't you get all upset over how Palestinians treat other Palestinians, this death toll is more in one month that Israel has yet managed in 67 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's called Palestinian Mentality.
Click to expand...


----------



## Truthseeker420

MJB12741 said:


> So very true.  And the irony is that we don't hear a single Palestinian or Palestinian supporter complaint about that.  But they bitch about Israel who actually made peace offerings to them, built a security fence & gave them their own land in Gaza so they can continue to live on the land they squatted on in Israel.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=Phoenall;9036440]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but its more than true.  Israelis were human enough to pass out leaflets and make phone calls.  Palestinian animals on the other hand pray they can kill more Jewish children.  They are a sick, barbaric depraved culture, with no respect for life.  Here are the animals you adore and falsely compare:
> 
> Miss Ahlam Tamimi murders 15 in Jerusalem, Israel ~ NO REGRETS - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.
> 
> NO REGRETS!
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is if the Palestinians stop firing illegal weapons at Israeli children then the Israeli's will not need to retaliate  belligerence. If the Palestinian leaders followed the LAWS written in the Geneva conventions then the people would not be killed.
> 
> But the Jordanians mass murdered 50,000 Palestinians locked up in concentration camps without any regrets as an indication of just what will happen to them if they try and steal Jordans land.   Now why don't you get all upset over how Palestinians treat other Palestinians, this death toll is more in one month that Israel has yet managed in 67 years.
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]



> 129 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,523 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> 
> 1,109 Israelis and at least 6,862 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 8,550 Israelis and 54,761 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information.)
> 
> 
> During Fiscal Year 2013, the U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.5 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> Israel has been targeted by at least 77 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by 1. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 0 Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,224 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and at least 27,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> The Israeli unemployment rate is 6.8%, while the Palestinian unemployment in the West Bank is 22.5% and 22.5% in Gaza. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> Israel currently has 262 Jewish-only settlements and outposts built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine. Alison Weir on book tour now!



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDyybNv1Iw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDyybNv1Iw[/ame]


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Especially if the psychos are Palestinian animals who fire from top of those apartment buildings"
> 
> Even if it were true, why would the Palestinians have to fire at attacking Israeli aircraft, if Israel was not doing the attacking?
> 
> The Israelis have a 10/20 to 1 or so kill ratio of civilians.  For every Israeli civilian killed by the Palestinians 10 to 20 Palestinian civilians are killed by the Jews.  Who are the murderous animals?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh but its more than true.  Israelis were human enough to pass out leaflets and make phone calls.  Palestinian animals on the other hand pray they can kill more Jewish children.  They are a sick, barbaric depraved culture, with no respect for life.  Here are the animals you adore and falsely compare:
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkAuvIQTzWU]Miss Ahlam Tamimi murders 15 in Jerusalem, Israel ~ NO REGRETS - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.
> 
> NO REGRETS!
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...


and of those killed only around 300 were civilians


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> and of those killed only around 300 were civilians


Only if you believe IDF propaganda.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Hey if it walks, talks, and acts like an IslamoNazi, then it is one.


And if it doesn't, it still is, right?


----------



## Lipush

Did lil Billy said anything to condemn the brutal murder of an innocent girl by the filthy freedom fighters few days ago? or is he too shocked by the Jewish graffiti terrorists?


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Did lil Billy said anything to condemn the brutal murder of an innocent girl by the filthy freedom fighters few days ago? or is he too shocked by the Jewish graffiti terrorists?


Nice *Sally* impression!

After reading the posts, of all the Israeli kiss-asses in this forum, nothing shocks me anymore.


----------



## Lipush

So I take it as a no?


----------



## Lipush

I did just ask a question, ya know. Nothing too complicated.


----------



## Lipush

And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.

Get the logic?


----------



## toastman

Lipush said:


> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?



Too people like Billo, anyone who supports Israel is an Israeli kiss ass.


----------



## Lipush

toastman said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too people like Billo, anyone who supports Israel is an Israeli kiss ass.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but still, what he said is just stupid.


----------



## MJB12741

Aw bless you Truthseeker for bringing up this valid point.  This is so funny.   Everytime Israel retaliates about 10 times as many Palestinians wind up dead than Israeli's.  And yet the dummies keep on attacking Israel.  And that folks is what Palestinian mentality is all about.   Read this folks.





Truthseeker420 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So very true.  And the irony is that we don't hear a single Palestinian or Palestinian supporter complaint about that.  But they bitch about Israel who actually made peace offerings to them, built a security fence & gave them their own land in Gaza so they can continue to live on the land they squatted on in Israel.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=Phoenall;9036440]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel killed 1400 Palestinians during Cast Lead.
> 
> NO REGRETS!
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is if the Palestinians stop firing illegal weapons at Israeli children then the Israeli's will not need to retaliate  belligerence. If the Palestinian leaders followed the LAWS written in the Geneva conventions then the people would not be killed.
> 
> But the Jordanians mass murdered 50,000 Palestinians locked up in concentration camps without any regrets as an indication of just what will happen to them if they try and steal Jordans land.   Now why don't you get all upset over how Palestinians treat other Palestinians, this death toll is more in one month that Israel has yet managed in 67 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




> 129 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,523 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> 
> 1,109 Israelis and at least 6,862 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 8,550 Israelis and 54,761 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information.)
> 
> 
> During Fiscal Year 2013, the U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.5 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> Israel has been targeted by at least 77 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by 1. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 0 Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,224 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and at least 27,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> The Israeli unemployment rate is 6.8%, while the Palestinian unemployment in the West Bank is 22.5% and 22.5% in Gaza. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> Israel currently has 262 Jewish-only settlements and outposts built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
> 
> If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine. Alison Weir on book tour now!



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDyybNv1Iw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDyybNv1Iw[/ame][/QUOTE]


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?


You are a patriot to fascism and cruelty.

In contrast, I am also a patriot to my country. However, the difference between you and me, is that I am embarrassed and outraged by my country's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am actively protesting our involvement in those country's, because our actions are not the American way.

You, apparently, feel treating the Palestinian's, like the Nazis treated the Jews, IS the Israeli way?


----------



## montelatici

i And yet the dummies keep on attacking Israel. And that folks is what Palestinian mentality is all about. Read this folks.

Unfortunately, this is just about normal when indigenous people put up resistance.  The South African whites killed the indigenous people at about the same rate as the Israelis.

It doesn't change the eventual outcome.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?
> 
> 
> 
> You are a patriot to fascism and cruelty.
> 
> In contrast, I am also a patriot to my country. However, the difference between you and me, is that I am embarrassed and outraged by my country's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am actively protesting our involvement in those country's, because our actions are not the American way.
> 
> You, apparently, feel treating the Palestinian's, like the Nazis treated the Jews, IS the Israeli way?
Click to expand...

Dude, many times she and her family have to sleep in bomb shelters and it's not a camping trip. Your brethern are trying to kill them.


----------



## Vigilante

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?
> 
> 
> 
> You are a patriot to fascism and cruelty.
> 
> In contrast, I am also a patriot to my country. However, the difference between you and me, is that I am embarrassed and outraged by my country's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am actively protesting our involvement in those country's, because our actions are not the American way.
> 
> You, apparently, feel treating the Palestinian's, like the Nazis treated the Jews, IS the Israeli way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, many times she and her family have to sleep in bomb shelters and it's not a camping trip. *Your brethern are trying to kill them*.
Click to expand...

 
 And this certainly doesn't help! Jumping from an anti-Semite, to a muslim enabler!


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Dude, many times she and her family have to sleep in bomb shelters and it's not a camping trip. Your brethern are trying to kill them.


And you look the other way while her and her ilk, are trying to kill them in greater numbers.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, many times she and her family have to sleep in bomb shelters and it's not a camping trip. Your brethern are trying to kill them.
> 
> 
> 
> And you look the other way while her and her ilk, are trying to kill them in greater numbers.
Click to expand...

The Resistance Warriors get what they deserve. When you can catch them.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?
> 
> 
> 
> You are a patriot to fascism and cruelty.
> 
> In contrast, I am also a patriot to my country. However, the difference between you and me, is that I am embarrassed and outraged by my country's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am actively protesting our involvement in those country's, because our actions are not the American way.
> 
> You, apparently, feel treating the Palestinian's, like the Nazis treated the Jews, IS the Israeli way?
Click to expand...


Yeah we are so awful.

We expell Jews from their houses while the Arab nomads steal our Negev land under permossion.  

We let them wave their stupid flag in our cities.

We let them sit in our government.

We give them jobs.

We take care of their babies in our hospitals.

We give organizations the ability to care for them.

We let them sue us in courts even though they're enemies.

What NAZIS we are.


Go fuck yourself.

Seriously


----------



## Lipush

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?
> 
> 
> 
> You are a patriot to fascism and cruelty.
> 
> In contrast, I am also a patriot to my country. However, the difference between you and me, is that I am embarrassed and outraged by my country's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am actively protesting our involvement in those country's, because our actions are not the American way.
> 
> You, apparently, feel treating the Palestinian's, like the Nazis treated the Jews, IS the Israeli way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, many times she and her family have to sleep in bomb shelters and it's not a camping trip. Your brethern are trying to kill them.
Click to expand...


Thanks, my friend. But he already told me he doesn't give a dn. Pointing out our life reality to him doesn't mean much

 for him- killing israelis is ok. Because of the "occupation"


----------



## Lipush

Btw Billy. You still didnt answer my question.


----------



## toastman

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?
> 
> 
> 
> You are a patriot to fascism and cruelty.
> 
> In contrast, I am also a patriot to my country. However, the difference between you and me, is that I am embarrassed and outraged by my country's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am actively protesting our involvement in those country's, because our actions are not the American way.
> 
> You, apparently, feel treating the Palestinian's, like the Nazis treated the Jews, IS the Israeli way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah we are so awful.
> 
> We expell Jews from their houses while the Arab nomads steal our Negev land under permossion.
> 
> We let them wave their stupid flag in our cities.
> 
> We let them sit in our government.
> 
> We give them jobs.
> 
> We take care of their babies in our hospitals.
> 
> We give organizations the ability to care for them.
> 
> We let them sue us in courts even though they're enemies.
> 
> What NAZIS we are.
> 
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> Seriously
Click to expand...


 Well said Lipush


----------



## Lipush

I'm still waiting for Billy to comdemn the horrible murder 2 days ago.

For some reason he's holding to his silence.

Any idea why?

Oh. Right. Palestinian terrorism is ok. Afer all- it's not as awful as price tag or graffiti in a mosque...


----------



## MJB12741

It is obvious you are not exactly among the brightest of people on this earth.  You see Billo this issue is really quite simple.  If you don't want the Israeli's to kill your people, stop attacking the Israeli's.  Capice?





Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, many times she and her family have to sleep in bomb shelters and it's not a camping trip. Your brethern are trying to kill them.
> 
> 
> 
> And you look the other way while her and her ilk, are trying to kill them in greater numbers.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did lil Billy said anything to condemn the brutal murder of an innocent girl by the filthy freedom fighters few days ago? or is he too shocked by the Jewish graffiti terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> Nice *Sally* impression!
> 
> After reading the posts, of all the Israeli kiss-asses in this forum, nothing shocks me anymore.
Click to expand...

...said the IslamoNazi ass kisser.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything about their rights. But you always talk about post war treaties creating Palestine. Palestine the what??
> I'm not trying to get you to say so something so I can use it against you. I'm just asking a question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
Click to expand...


Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.

The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent

There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
Click to expand...

To late, Tinmore. That ship sailed already. A lot of people agree and sympathize with you but shoulda, woulda and coulda have gone the way of the hula hoop and the horse drawn carriage. Que sera, sera.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
Click to expand...





 Not according to the treaties that you like to quote, many of the "borders" were those of other nations like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan.
 The separate mandates did have borders, and were split into three distinct areas of control. The French, British and Russian mandates.
 Your comment is one of those pieces of misinformation as the mandate's were assigned to nations to manage and control. The mandate did not own any land but the LoN did under the treaty with Ottoman Turkey. This land was already promised to arabs ( 85% of the available land ) and Jews ( 15% of the available land) By the end of the mandate the Jews were reduced to being granted less than 3% of the available land, and that mostly infertile desert. The separate mandates of Palestine are shown in this map drawn up at San Remo







 This also shows the "borders" attributed to Palestine under the various treaties and cover more land area than the Sanjuks of Jerusalem, Balqa and Acre as you seem to think


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to the treaties that you like to quote, many of the "borders" were those of other nations like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan.
> The separate mandates did have borders, and were split into three distinct areas of control. The French, British and Russian mandates.
> Your comment is one of those pieces of misinformation as the mandate's were assigned to nations to manage and control. The mandate did not own any land but the LoN did under the treaty with Ottoman Turkey. This land was already promised to arabs ( 85% of the available land ) and Jews ( 15% of the available land) By the end of the mandate the Jews were reduced to being granted less than 3% of the available land, and that mostly infertile desert. The separate mandates of Palestine are shown in this map drawn up at San Remo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also shows the "borders" attributed to Palestine under the various treaties and cover more land area than the Sanjuks of Jerusalem, Balqa and Acre as you seem to think
Click to expand...


Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the treaties that you like to quote, many of the "borders" were those of other nations like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan.
> The separate mandates did have borders, and were split into three distinct areas of control. The French, British and Russian mandates.
> Your comment is one of those pieces of misinformation as the mandate's were assigned to nations to manage and control. The mandate did not own any land but the LoN did under the treaty with Ottoman Turkey. This land was already promised to arabs ( 85% of the available land ) and Jews ( 15% of the available land) By the end of the mandate the Jews were reduced to being granted less than 3% of the available land, and that mostly infertile desert. The separate mandates of Palestine are shown in this map drawn up at San Remo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also shows the "borders" attributed to Palestine under the various treaties and cover more land area than the Sanjuks of Jerusalem, Balqa and Acre as you seem to think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.
Click to expand...




 Your constant referencing the Palestinian international borders being that of modern day Palestine and not the real borders of Palestine as it was in 1920.  The treaties were put in place to stop the royal houses getting upset over their acquisition of Syria and Transjordan, it had nothing to do with the arab muslims in modern day Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the treaties that you like to quote, many of the "borders" were those of other nations like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan.
> The separate mandates did have borders, and were split into three distinct areas of control. The French, British and Russian mandates.
> Your comment is one of those pieces of misinformation as the mandate's were assigned to nations to manage and control. The mandate did not own any land but the LoN did under the treaty with Ottoman Turkey. This land was already promised to arabs ( 85% of the available land ) and Jews ( 15% of the available land) By the end of the mandate the Jews were reduced to being granted less than 3% of the available land, and that mostly infertile desert. The separate mandates of Palestine are shown in this map drawn up at San Remo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also shows the "borders" attributed to Palestine under the various treaties and cover more land area than the Sanjuks of Jerusalem, Balqa and Acre as you seem to think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your constant referencing the Palestinian international borders being that of modern day Palestine and not the real borders of Palestine as it was in 1920.  The treaties were put in place to stop the royal houses getting upset over their acquisition of Syria and Transjordan, it had nothing to do with the arab muslims in modern day Palestine.
Click to expand...


I reference Palestine's international borders as they were finalized in 1922 and came into affect in 1924.

These borders were referenced in the 1949 UN armistice agreements.

Negotiating a change in these borders is a final status issue in the current peace process.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your constant referencing the Palestinian international borders being that of modern day Palestine and not the real borders of Palestine as it was in 1920.  The treaties were put in place to stop the royal houses getting upset over their acquisition of Syria and Transjordan, it had nothing to do with the arab muslims in modern day Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I reference Palestine's international borders as they were finalized in 1922 and came into affect in 1924.
> 
> These borders were referenced in the 1949 UN armistice agreements.
> 
> Negotiating a change in these borders is a final status issue in the current peace process.
Click to expand...

Will Palestine be as big as Texas or Central Park in NYC?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
Click to expand...


'To bring it to Independence'

Which they rejected in 1947.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to the treaties that you like to quote, many of the "borders" were those of other nations like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan.
> The separate mandates did have borders, and were split into three distinct areas of control. The French, British and Russian mandates.
> Your comment is one of those pieces of misinformation as the mandate's were assigned to nations to manage and control. The mandate did not own any land but the LoN did under the treaty with Ottoman Turkey. This land was already promised to arabs ( 85% of the available land ) and Jews ( 15% of the available land) By the end of the mandate the Jews were reduced to being granted less than 3% of the available land, and that mostly infertile desert. The separate mandates of Palestine are shown in this map drawn up at San Remo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also shows the "borders" attributed to Palestine under the various treaties and cover more land area than the Sanjuks of Jerusalem, Balqa and Acre as you seem to think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.
Click to expand...

Denial is not a river in Egypt.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your constant referencing the Palestinian international borders being that of modern day Palestine and not the real borders of Palestine as it was in 1920.  The treaties were put in place to stop the royal houses getting upset over their acquisition of Syria and Transjordan, it had nothing to do with the arab muslims in modern day Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I reference Palestine's international borders as they were finalized in 1922 and came into affect in 1924.
> 
> These borders were referenced in the 1949 UN armistice agreements.
> 
> Negotiating a change in these borders is a final status issue in the current peace process.
Click to expand...

There ya go, here is your Palestine on two different days. 

*1920*:





After Arab whining, and creation of an Arab Palestine aka Jordan in *1922*:


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your constant referencing the Palestinian international borders being that of modern day Palestine and not the real borders of Palestine as it was in 1920.  The treaties were put in place to stop the royal houses getting upset over their acquisition of Syria and Transjordan, it had nothing to do with the arab muslims in modern day Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reference Palestine's international borders as they were finalized in 1922 and came into affect in 1924.
> 
> These borders were referenced in the 1949 UN armistice agreements.
> 
> Negotiating a change in these borders is a final status issue in the current peace process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will Palestine be as big as Texas or Central Park in NYC?
Click to expand...

The way these Arabs are going there won't be any Palestine.  There will be a Islamic Khalifate of Gaza, led by Hamas terrorist animals, and Israel will be annexing the West Bank. Sounds like a game plan to me.


----------



## toastman

Tinmore, you are wrong again a out the Mandate being assigned to Palestine.
I used to think the same thing. But Palestine=Mandate and Mandate=Palestine.

Look at the name of the birthplace of the people born there during that time. It says Mandatory Palestine, not Palestine.


----------



## Kondor3

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> And BTW, I am not an "Israeli-kiss-ass". I'm Israeli. My stand is with patriotism, not ass-kissing.
> 
> Get the logic?
> 
> 
> 
> You are a patriot to fascism and cruelty.
> 
> In contrast, I am also a patriot to my country. However, the difference between you and me, is that I am embarrassed and outraged by my country's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am actively protesting our involvement in those country's, because our actions are not the American way.
> 
> You, apparently, feel treating the Palestinian's, like the Nazis treated the Jews, IS the Israeli way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah we are so awful.
> 
> We expell Jews from their houses while the Arab nomads steal our Negev land under permossion.
> 
> We let them wave their stupid flag in our cities.
> 
> We let them sit in our government.
> 
> We give them jobs.
> 
> We take care of their babies in our hospitals.
> 
> We give organizations the ability to care for them.
> 
> We let them sue us in courts even though they're enemies.
> 
> What NAZIS we are.
> 
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> Seriously
Click to expand...


----------



## Lipush

hahaha


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'To bring it to Independence'
> 
> Which they rejected in 1947.
Click to expand...


No they didn't.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'To bring it to Independence'
> 
> Which they rejected in 1947.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
Click to expand...

No? Then it went into effect. Learn something new every day. Good on you, Tinmore.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Tinmore, you are wrong again a out the Mandate being assigned to Palestine.
> I used to think the same thing. But Palestine=Mandate and Mandate=Palestine.
> 
> Look at the name of the birthplace of the people born there during that time. It says Mandatory Palestine, not Palestine.



Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.

And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.

Do you have a link to your claim?


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your constant referencing the Palestinian international borders being that of modern day Palestine and not the real borders of Palestine as it was in 1920.  The treaties were put in place to stop the royal houses getting upset over their acquisition of Syria and Transjordan, it had nothing to do with the arab muslims in modern day Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I reference Palestine's international borders as they were finalized in 1922 and came into affect in 1924.
> 
> These borders were referenced in the 1949 UN armistice agreements.
> 
> Negotiating a change in these borders is a final status issue in the current peace process.
Click to expand...


Mandate borders are not national boarders.  Palestine was not a state.  All the mandates were divided up into separate states.  The offer of a palestinian state was refused and when the mandate ended war was declared.  Jordan and egypt became occupiers and they never tried to create a state for the palestinians, though Jordan did offer them citizenship as jordanians, which they refused and tried to over throw the government, but failed.  They tried again with Lebanon and failed.  Most recently the MB fiasco in egypt.

Syria still consider the whole region theirs, as part of a greater syrian empire, including parts of turkey and iraq.  Borders have always be fluid and changing over time by who controls the land.  For some it is where they build a wall and man forts to defend it.  

There is no state, was no state, till palestinians are ready to negotiate with Israel and accept compromises to their demands.  For Israel their security, now and in the future, is utmost.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'To bring it to Independence'
> 
> Which they rejected in 1947.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
Click to expand...


>>While the Jewish community accepted the 1937 and 1947 partition plans, the Palestinian Arab leadership, dominated by the Husseini family, rejected both plans categorically. Indeed, most Palestinians turned down the 1937 design, even though it designated only 20 percent of Palestine to the proposed Jewish state. Furthermore, the Palestinian leadership even rejected the 1939 British White Paper, which had promised them an independent state within ten years while limiting Jewish immigration and turning the Jews into a minority in an Arab Palestinian state.<<

How do you not know that?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, you are wrong again a out the Mandate being assigned to Palestine.
> I used to think the same thing. But Palestine=Mandate and Mandate=Palestine.
> 
> Look at the name of the birthplace of the people born there during that time. It says Mandatory Palestine, not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
Click to expand...


I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.

BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'To bring it to Independence'
> 
> Which they rejected in 1947.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
Click to expand...


They rejected the partition plan. The partition plan would have brought them independence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'To bring it to Independence'
> 
> Which they rejected in 1947.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> >>While the Jewish community accepted the 1937 and 1947 partition plans, the Palestinian Arab leadership, dominated by the Husseini family, rejected both plans categorically. Indeed, most Palestinians turned down the 1937 design, even though it designated only 20 percent of Palestine to the proposed Jewish state. Furthermore, the Palestinian leadership even rejected the 1939 British White Paper, which had promised them an independent state within ten years while limiting Jewish immigration and turning the Jews into a minority in an Arab Palestinian state.<<
> 
> How do you not know that?
Click to expand...


What is not to know?

The "Jewish community" did not accept either partition plan.

The creation of Israel had nothing to do with either plan.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>While the Jewish community accepted the 1937 and 1947 partition plans, the Palestinian Arab leadership, dominated by the Husseini family, rejected both plans categorically. Indeed, most Palestinians turned down the 1937 design, even though it designated only 20 percent of Palestine to the proposed Jewish state. Furthermore, the Palestinian leadership even rejected the 1939 British White Paper, which had promised them an independent state within ten years while limiting Jewish immigration and turning the Jews into a minority in an Arab Palestinian state.<<
> 
> How do you not know that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is not to know?
> 
> The "Jewish community" did not accept either partition plan.
> 
> The creation of Israel had nothing to do with either plan.
Click to expand...

Tinmore, give us a rundown of what happened, what should have happened and what is the solution.


----------



## MJB12741

You forgot to mention that the "native population" of Palestine were mostly Jews.  Not a single Muslim among them anywhere to be found.




P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK,here is the scenario as I see it. If there is something that you disagree with, please bring it to my attention.
> 
> Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Britain occupied the territory in 1917.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the Ottoman Empire was honored as Palestines international border with Egypt.
> 
> The international border between Palestine and Syria/Lebanon was defined in 1920.
> 
> Britain recommended that Palestine and Transjordan be divided into two states. The League of Nations accepted that proposal defining Palestines eastern international border in 1922.
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who normally lived inside that defined territory would become Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine.
> 
> However none of this could be implemented as long as Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty. The Treaty of Lausanne in 1924 released Palestine, and all of the other newly created states, from Turkish sovereignty.
> 
> As a nation of people inside a defined territory the Palestinians have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity. Anything that happened since then that violates those legal rights is a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>While the Jewish community accepted the 1937 and 1947 partition plans, the Palestinian Arab leadership, dominated by the Husseini family, rejected both plans categorically. Indeed, most Palestinians turned down the 1937 design, even though it designated only 20 percent of Palestine to the proposed Jewish state. Furthermore, the Palestinian leadership even rejected the 1939 British White Paper, which had promised them an independent state within ten years while limiting Jewish immigration and turning the Jews into a minority in an Arab Palestinian state.<<
> 
> How do you not know that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is not to know?
> 
> The "Jewish community" did not accept either partition plan.
> 
> The creation of Israel had nothing to do with either plan.
Click to expand...


I don't recall reading anywhere about the Jewish community not accepting the plan.
Link?


----------



## aris2chat

MJB12741 said:


> You forgot to mention that the "native population" of Palestine were mostly Jews.  Not a single Muslim among them anywhere to be found.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine the undefined area was part of the ottoman empire
> 
> Britain took the territory in 1917 during WW1 and evicted the axis powers.
> 
> The 1906 border between Egypt and the ottoman empire was accepted as the border.
> 
> The borders between the FRENCH MANDATED OF PALESTINE Syria/ Lebanon and the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE were set in 1920
> 
> The eastern border of trans Jordan was set in 1922
> 
> Those Turkish citizens who lived in the mandated lands of Palestine had the right to accept citizenship of the mandated lands they lived in. Becoming French Palestinian citizens or British Palestinian citizens.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanne was the hand over of the reparations for WW1 by the ottomans and the land became mandated LoN land. This included the already formed nations of Iraq, Syria and trans Jordan that were still subject to mandate control.
> 
> There was no nation of people to receive those rights as the land was still under mandate, and the Jews declared their intention to create the nation of Israel on the land already set aside by the LEGAL OWNERS for that purpose. It was not until 1988 that the last piece of the mandated land was finally taken over and the mandate could end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Jordan is not part of palestine.
Lebanon is not part of syria.  Syria at one time was five different states
Mandates were to divide up the remains of the Ottoman empire, and that is what they did.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, you are wrong again a out the Mandate being assigned to Palestine.
> I used to think the same thing. But Palestine=Mandate and Mandate=Palestine.
> 
> Look at the name of the birthplace of the people born there during that time. It says Mandatory Palestine, not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
Click to expand...

Why do you insist on continuously crying over milk that Arabs spilt 70 years ago?  You're never gonna put that Humpty back together again.  It is what it is, accept that and move on.  Let's look at the facts in the ground ie...the West Bank is heading fast towards getting annexed by Israel. Time is not on the Palestinian's side.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, you are wrong again a out the Mandate being assigned to Palestine.
> I used to think the same thing. But Palestine=Mandate and Mandate=Palestine.
> 
> Look at the name of the birthplace of the people born there during that time. It says Mandatory Palestine, not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.
> 
> BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.
> 
> BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Recognizing Jordan's right to exist but not Israel's.  both were created out of the mandate.
Your nice embroidered map is hypocritical trash.  However, if the PA fails, it might end up being the map of Israel in the future.  Lets hope it does not come to that.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show, specifically, where I am incorrect. Not just throwing out a bunch of stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your constant referencing the Palestinian international borders being that of modern day Palestine and not the real borders of Palestine as it was in 1920.  The treaties were put in place to stop the royal houses getting upset over their acquisition of Syria and Transjordan, it had nothing to do with the arab muslims in modern day Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I reference Palestine's international borders as they were finalized in 1922 and came into affect in 1924.
> 
> These borders were referenced in the 1949 UN armistice agreements.
> 
> Negotiating a change in these borders is a final status issue in the current peace process.
Click to expand...




 The borders you reference are those shown above, and not the ones of modern day Palestine. Those borders were put in place were abolished by treaties setting up Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and Transjordan. Since then the only borders that have been negotiated were those between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan. The Palestinians have not negotiated any borders as laid down in UN resolutions 242 and 338.

 So when will the Palestinians decide it is time to negotiate their borders .


----------



## Phoenall

toastman said:


> Tinmore, you are wrong again a out the Mandate being assigned to Palestine.
> I used to think the same thing. But Palestine=Mandate and Mandate=Palestine.
> 
> Look at the name of the birthplace of the people born there during that time. It says Mandatory Palestine, not Palestine.





 The mandates were given to France, Britain and Russia to bring the people to independence. The mandate was just a set of rules and regulations laid down by the LoN who were the new owners of the Ottoman lands. After various treaties were signed the mandated powers started issuing passports to Palestinians that had the name of the mandated power as the persons nationality.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a land defined by international borders. It had a native population who were citizens of Palestine.
> 
> The mandate owned no land and had no borders of its own. It held the land in trust while "rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." ~ LoN covanent
> 
> There has been a lot of misinformation about the mandate but it was assigned to Palestine to bring it to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'To bring it to Independence'
> 
> Which they rejected in 1947.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
Click to expand...




 What have the Palestinians done to negotiate peace, borders and a just settlement of the problems.

 They rejected independence in may 1948 and kept on rejecting it until 1988


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, you are wrong again a out the Mandate being assigned to Palestine.
> I used to think the same thing. But Palestine=Mandate and Mandate=Palestine.
> 
> Look at the name of the birthplace of the people born there during that time. It says Mandatory Palestine, not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
Click to expand...





 Palestine will always be there, just as the Negev and Jordan valley will. They are places on the map and not nations.

 Now what have the Palestinians done to negotiate a just settlement, peace and borders as laid down by the UN resolutions 242 and 338


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>While the Jewish community accepted the 1937 and 1947 partition plans, the Palestinian Arab leadership, dominated by the Husseini family, rejected both plans categorically. Indeed, most Palestinians turned down the 1937 design, even though it designated only 20 percent of Palestine to the proposed Jewish state. Furthermore, the Palestinian leadership even rejected the 1939 British White Paper, which had promised them an independent state within ten years while limiting Jewish immigration and turning the Jews into a minority in an Arab Palestinian state.<<
> 
> How do you not know that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is not to know?
> 
> The "Jewish community" did not accept either partition plan.
> 
> The creation of Israel had nothing to do with either plan.
Click to expand...





 Evidence from a reliable non biased source

 Then detail what the Palestinians have done to negotiate a peace, just settlement and borders with Israel ?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.
> 
> BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...





 Cant see 1949 in the legend for any of those maps, and are you sure they are from an unbiased source.

 Now how about what the Palestinians have done to negotiate a just settlement, mutual borders and peace.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.
> 
> BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  Of course a fake map drawn by Arabs, and not the international community, showing Israel as Palestine.  Tinmore continues his delusion and whining.


----------



## MJB12741

Honestly, Tinmore is so funny.  Did you notice how Palestine is even wriiten in red to wake up those Zionists?  Heh Heh.





Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.
> 
> BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha ha.  Of course a fake map drawn by Arabs, and not the international community, showing Israel as Palestine.  Tinmore continues his delusion and whining.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why did the UN armistice agreements (almost a year after the end of the mandate) say that Palestine was still there.
> 
> And a 1974 UN resolution said that Palestine was still there.
> 
> Do you have a link to your claim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.
> 
> BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Lol well that was clearly a sign of desperation on your part.


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think like you, but then Rocco , on several occasions, proved otherwise . I don't remember the links he used, I will try to look it up.
> 
> BTW, do you have a map of Palestine from 1949?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol well that was clearly a sign of desperation on your part.
Click to expand...

That's like Mexicans holding a map of US and calling it "Mexico".  Ha ha ha.  If Tel Aviv is Palestine, then New York belongs to Mexico.  Tinmore has a great sense of humor, he should try being a comedian.  

I don't know how those assholes in those pictures are holding those fake maps and keeping a straight face.  Prime example of Palestinian Mentality.


----------



## toastman

Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.

Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.
> 
> Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
> Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory



I am sure that the blacks in South Africa felt Pretoria was occupied territory while the whites ruled.  What's the difference with Tel Aviv, which was founded by European settlers as Pretoria was.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.
> 
> Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
> Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure that the blacks in South Africa felt Pretoria was occupied territory while the whites ruled.  What's the difference with Tel Aviv, which was founded by European settlers as Pretoria was.
Click to expand...


Israelis occupying Israel, what a concept.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.
> 
> Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
> Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure that the blacks in South Africa felt Pretoria was occupied territory while the whites ruled.  What's the difference with Tel Aviv, which was founded by European settlers as Pretoria was.
Click to expand...




 Off topic again, if you want to debate South Africa then go to that board.


----------



## Vigilante

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.
> 
> Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
> Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure that the blacks in South Africa felt Pretoria was occupied territory while the whites ruled. What's the difference with Tel Aviv, which was founded by European settlers as Pretoria was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic again, if you want to debate South Africa then go to that board.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

B elieve it or not, Tinmore has rfepeatgedly stated he wants to see a Palestinian State with "self determination."    Good Lord, after what we witnessed what the Palestinians did to each other after Israel granted them their own Gaza, a Palestinian State without Israel to suck off of would become an act of Palestinian self genocide.





toastman said:


> Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.
> 
> Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
> Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory


----------



## MJB12741

My apology for all the typo errors.  New wireless keyboard keeps sticking while typing.  Good grief, I may have to start reviewing before sending.  Anybody know what's causing this?  Thank you.  Message should read:

Believe it or not, Tinmore has repeatedly stated he wants to see a Palestinian State with "self determination."    Good Lord, after what we witnessed what the Palestinians did to each other after Israel granted them their own Gaza, a Palestinian State without Israel to suck off of would become an act of Palestinian self genocide.







MJB12741 said:


> B elieve it or not, Tinmore has rfepeatgedly stated he wants to see a Palestinian State with "self determination."    Good Lord, after what we witnessed what the Palestinians did to each other after Israel granted them their own Gaza, a Palestinian State without Israel to suck off of would become an act of Palestinian self genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.
> 
> Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
> Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

MJB12741 said:


> My apology for all the typo errors.  New wireless keyboard keeps sticking while typing.  Good grief, I may have to start reviewing before sending.  Anybody know what's causing this?  Thank you.  Message should read:
> 
> Believe it or not, Tinmore has repeatedly stated he wants to see a Palestinian State with "self determination."    Good Lord, after what we witnessed what the Palestinians did to each other after Israel granted them their own Gaza, a Palestinian State without Israel to suck off of would become an act of Palestinian self genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> B elieve it or not, Tinmore has rfepeatgedly stated he wants to see a Palestinian State with "self determination."    Good Lord, after what we witnessed what the Palestinians did to each other after Israel granted them their own Gaza, a Palestinian State without Israel to suck off of would become an act of Palestinian self genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, I told a poster who was debating with Tinmore:'you're talking to a guy who believes Tel Aviv is occupied.
> 
> Tinmore responded:' I get a lot of crap for saying that, but no one has proved me wrong'
> Thats right, no one has proved him wrong that Tel Aviv is occupied territory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...





 Could be the newness and the signal path, I have the same problem with my usb keyboards until they have seen some use. Try bringing your receiver to the top of the desk see if that cleans up the signal


----------



## MJB12741

Thanks.  As to Palestinian "self determination" let us all join with Tinmore & pray for it.  No more sucking off of Israel to support them.  Just send body bags.





Phoenall said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My apology for all the typo errors.  New wireless keyboard keeps sticking while typing.  Good grief, I may have to start reviewing before sending.  Anybody know what's causing this?  Thank you.  Message should read:
> 
> Believe it or not, Tinmore has repeatedly stated he wants to see a Palestinian State with "self determination."    Good Lord, after what we witnessed what the Palestinians did to each other after Israel granted them their own Gaza, a Palestinian State without Israel to suck off of would become an act of Palestinian self genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> B elieve it or not, Tinmore has rfepeatgedly stated he wants to see a Palestinian State with "self determination."    Good Lord, after what we witnessed what the Palestinians did to each other after Israel granted them their own Gaza, a Palestinian State without Israel to suck off of would become an act of Palestinian self genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could be the newness and the signal path, I have the same problem with my usb keyboards until they have seen some use. Try bringing your receiver to the top of the desk see if that cleans up the signal
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

I was told by  the Palestinian supporters that "ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND."  I for one detest land thieves & will never support them.  But what I need to know to verfy the truth on this issue is the answer to the question, when did this happen or when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that they claim Israel is stealing?


----------



## montelatici

_when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" _

It's kind of like when your great, great, great grandparents immigrate to the U.S. from Europe and their house is sequestered by the government for non-payment of taxes and other people buy it and live there for a few generations.  When you go to Europe and want your great, great, great grandparents home back, the people living there might resist.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> _when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" _
> 
> It's kind of like when your great, great, great grandparents immigrate to the U.S. from Europe and their house is sequestered by the government for non-payment of taxes and other people buy it and live there for a few generations.  When you go to Europe and want your great, great, great grandparents home back, the people living there might resist.


Try again.  The question was "when did Israel's ancient land become this 'Palestinian land'"


----------



## montelatici

The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?


When Moses said, "I can't go with you but thar she be boys. Get a move on".


----------



## MJB12741

Let me answer your question rationally & without bias.  This Hebrew land of Israel existed since antiquity according to the ancient Egyptian Merneptah Stellah.  Or would you prefer we use the Bible?  Now then , back to when did Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is steaaling?  Fair enough?






montelatici said:


> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?


----------



## MJB12741

Such a Time as This: The Merneptah Stele


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?


So you can't answer the question, or won't. 

No more questions, your Honor.


----------



## montelatici

Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.



When you say their land, can you be more specific?


----------



## montelatici

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you say their land, can you be more specific?
Click to expand...


Well, than land that they and their ancestors lived on for the past 2,000 plus years.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.


Bullcrap.  I just showed you that in Jerusalem alone, the Palestinians were proven to be 19th century invaders from Arab countries.  You can put lipstick on this pig as much as you'd like but it's still going to be a pig.


----------



## Vigilante

*Hamas Marks Independence Day with Genocide Video*

  *inn ^ 

 Hamas gave Israel a &#8220;gift&#8221; on its Independence Day on Tuesday, in the form of a video calling for genocide of Israelis. The animated video, released by Hamas&#8217;s so-called &#8220;military wing&#8221;, the Al-Kassam Brigades, called for resistance and for committing genocide against Jews living in Israel in order to &#8220;free Palestine&#8221;. The song in the video was to the tune of the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, which means &#8220;the hope&#8221; in Hebrew. The Arabic words of the song twisted that message, warning that it is &#8220;the end of the hope&#8221; for Israel, that Israel was doomed, and that Jerusalem will...


----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


> *Hamas Marks Independence Day with Genocide Video*
> 
> *inn ^
> 
> Hamas gave Israel a &#8220;gift&#8221; on its Independence Day on Tuesday, in the form of a video calling for genocide of Israelis. The animated video, released by Hamas&#8217;s so-called &#8220;military wing&#8221;, the Al-Kassam Brigades, called for resistance and for committing genocide against Jews living in Israel in order to &#8220;free Palestine&#8221;. The song in the video was to the tune of the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, which means &#8220;the hope&#8221; in Hebrew. The Arabic words of the song twisted that message, warning that it is &#8220;the end of the hope&#8221; for Israel, that Israel was doomed, and that Jerusalem will...


^^^
Wow, that was truly sick.  These animals never cease to amaze me.


----------



## Vigilante

Roudy said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Marks Independence Day with Genocide Video*
> 
> *inn ^
> 
> Hamas gave Israel a &#8220;gift&#8221; on its Independence Day on Tuesday, in the form of a video calling for genocide of Israelis. The animated video, released by Hamas&#8217;s so-called &#8220;military wing&#8221;, the Al-Kassam Brigades, called for resistance and for committing genocide against Jews living in Israel in order to &#8220;free Palestine&#8221;. The song in the video was to the tune of the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, which means &#8220;the hope&#8221; in Hebrew. The Arabic words of the song twisted that message, warning that it is &#8220;the end of the hope&#8221; for Israel, that Israel was doomed, and that Jerusalem will...
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^
> Wow, that was truly sick. These animals never cease to amaze me.
Click to expand...


Anyone with a lick of sense knows the only way to take care of a mad dog is to kill it, and make sure it's really dead, as they do tend to bite you, when you least expect it!


----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Marks Independence Day with Genocide Video*
> 
> *inn ^
> 
> Hamas gave Israel a &#8220;gift&#8221; on its Independence Day on Tuesday, in the form of a video calling for genocide of Israelis. The animated video, released by Hamas&#8217;s so-called &#8220;military wing&#8221;, the Al-Kassam Brigades, called for resistance and for committing genocide against Jews living in Israel in order to &#8220;free Palestine&#8221;. The song in the video was to the tune of the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, which means &#8220;the hope&#8221; in Hebrew. The Arabic words of the song twisted that message, warning that it is &#8220;the end of the hope&#8221; for Israel, that Israel was doomed, and that Jerusalem will...
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^
> Wow, that was truly sick. These animals never cease to amaze me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone with a lick of sense knows the only way to take care of a mad dog is to kill it, and make sure it's really dead, as they do tend to bite you, when you least expect it!
Click to expand...

...but isn't Israel doing these animals a favor by providing them with a free one way ticket to their virgin 72 year old Virginians?


----------



## MJB12741

Eh Monte, got news for you.  The indigenous Palestinians who lived on the land 2000 years ago WERE JEWS!






montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you say their land, can you be more specific?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, than land that they and their ancestors lived on for the past 2,000 plus years.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> _when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" _
> 
> It's kind of like when your great, great, great grandparents immigrate to the U.S. from Europe and their house is sequestered by the government for non-payment of taxes and other people buy it and live there for a few generations.  When you go to Europe and want your great, great, great grandparents home back, the people living there might resist.





 But it is not like that at all is it, it is more like this. It is like you great, great,great grandparents being forcibly evicted from the home they had paid for by an invading horde of psychopathic rapists and murderers. Ran of the land while the invading horde rapes all the female members and forced to leave the home the family had owned for 1,000 years. Then to see the property destroyed by neglect and defaced as you are forcibly moved on yet again. Then many years later you are given the chance to go back and live on the land again by an International force that promises to keep the invaders away from your land. These invaders even after moving on and abandoning the land claim that they have lived there for 20,000 years when the reality is they only invaded 2 generations ago.

 The land was never theirs, they stole it and then abandoned it, but now it is once again fertile and abundant they want to steal it all over again. Just like they did in Hebron


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?





 When it was Judea and Samaria right up until the LoN agreed to resurrect the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS back in Palestine. That was when the land once more became Jewish, when the LEGAL OWNERS gave the Jews the land.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.





 Lets see the Palestinians are muslims so did not exist before 632 C.E.

 Palestine did not exist before Rome sacked the land and named it Palestine as an insult

 3,000 years ago it was called Judea and Samaria and was owned by the Jews.

 The Europeans have closer ties to the land than any Palestinian muslim ever will due to the genetic markers present in their DNA. Couple that with the fact that two former owners of the lands invited them to migrate there and take up ownership negates any claims by the illegal arab muslim invaders.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you say their land, can you be more specific?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, than land that they and their ancestors lived on for the past 2,000 plus years.
Click to expand...


 So you mean Saudi, Egypt, Syria, Iran etc and not Judea and Samaria then. As that land was inhabited by the Jews who have lived there for nearly 4,000 years. Nice of you to finally admit that the arab muslims are recent invaders of the land and will you now join with the rest of humanity in demanding they return to their homes.


----------



## Phoenall

Roudy said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Marks Independence Day with Genocide Video*
> 
> *inn ^
> 
> Hamas gave Israel a gift on its Independence Day on Tuesday, in the form of a video calling for genocide of Israelis. The animated video, released by Hamass so-called military wing, the Al-Kassam Brigades, called for resistance and for committing genocide against Jews living in Israel in order to free Palestine. The song in the video was to the tune of the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, which means the hope in Hebrew. The Arabic words of the song twisted that message, warning that it is the end of the hope for Israel, that Israel was doomed, and that Jerusalem will...
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^
> Wow, that was truly sick.  These animals never cease to amaze me.
Click to expand...





 I wonder how many of the ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDISTS will claim that this is another "Zionist lie"


----------



## Beelzebub

Proposing of and doing evil acts need to opposed, no matter what the source.

Though it makes sense to massively limit the power of Israeli Zionists, clearly killing them all is neither necessary nor desirable, and not even possible by the meagre military that Hamas has.

As to whether this is from a Hamas source or Mossad, it would be hard to say.  Clearly some fools in Palestine think it is useful or 'feel good' to send nasty messages.  But then again, many Zionists would love to receive them, as a tool to claim victimhood again.  Even when they have more military might than most European states.


----------



## Phoenall

Beelzebub said:


> Proposing of and doing evil acts need to opposed, no matter what the source.
> 
> Though it makes sense to massively limit the power of Israeli Zionists, clearly killing them all is neither necessary nor desirable, and not even possible by the meagre military that Hamas has.
> 
> As to whether this is from a Hamas source or Mossad, it would be hard to say.  Clearly some fools in Palestine think it is useful or 'feel good' to send nasty messages.  But then again, many Zionists would love to receive them, as a tool to claim victimhood again.  Even when they have more military might than most European states.





 problem is every time the Israeli's are castigated for atrocities they admit to them first then at a later date prove that they did not do them but that the Palestinians did. 
 They need that military might to combat the terrorism and violence emanating from the muslims. It is the Samson option if the muslims attack the Israelis have far more firepower to hit back with.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.


The so-called 'Palestinians' are a polyglot of diverse native and immigrant peoples and tribes which include the descendants of those living there for centuries and those large numbers of job-seeking migrants who drifted into the region beginning in the late 19th Century as the immigrant Jews set up shop and began generating jobs and economic productivity and created a demand for large-scale unskilled Arab labor; a mixture of old-timer and newcomer blood-lines and families, drawn from various lands and countries surrounding Israel-Palestine.

And, as things stand now, they are the former owners of the land; having (a) sold-out to the Jews prior to 1948 and (b) lost their various wars against the Jews. They are now, in large part, and to all practical purposes, a state-less, land-less, displaced people. It is time for them to disperse into the surrounding Muslim-controlled countries and to begin new lives there for themselves and their families. The battle for Palestine is over. It was pretty much over by 1948-1949, and 1967 was the clincher.

Peoples are displaced from time to time as a result of warfare, but the world continues to turn, and it's now clear that the Jews of Israel are there to stay, and will eventually settle for nothing less than Eretz Yisrael, and that they have the muscle to realize their goal.

Pay off the Palestinians with some sort of wergeld, help them to relocate, let 'em go someplace where they're actually welcome, to begin new and peaceful lives, and be done with the goddamned thing - allowing the world get on with far more important business.

The pissant Palestinians simply aren't worth all this fuss, for all these years, in the larger and grander scheme of things.


----------



## aris2chat

Vigilante said:


> *Hamas Marks Independence Day with Genocide Video*
> 
> *inn ^
> 
> Hamas gave Israel a gift on its Independence Day on Tuesday, in the form of a video calling for genocide of Israelis. The animated video, released by Hamass so-called military wing, the Al-Kassam Brigades, called for resistance and for committing genocide against Jews living in Israel in order to free Palestine. The song in the video was to the tune of the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, which means the hope in Hebrew. The Arabic words of the song twisted that message, warning that it is the end of the hope for Israel, that Israel was doomed, and that Jerusalem will...



this is who Israel should have as a neighbor and future partner in negotiations???


----------



## Kondor3

aris2chat said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Marks Independence Day with Genocide Video*
> 
> *inn ^
> 
> Hamas gave Israel a &#8220;gift&#8221; on its Independence Day on Tuesday, in the form of a video calling for genocide of Israelis. The animated video, released by Hamas&#8217;s so-called &#8220;military wing&#8221;, the Al-Kassam Brigades, called for resistance and for committing genocide against Jews living in Israel in order to &#8220;free Palestine&#8221;. The song in the video was to the tune of the Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, which means &#8220;the hope&#8221; in Hebrew. The Arabic words of the song twisted that message, warning that it is &#8220;the end of the hope&#8221; for Israel, that Israel was doomed, and that Jerusalem will...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is who Israel should have as a neighbor and future partner in negotiations???
Click to expand...

It is my guess that the time is fast approaching, when Israel is going to be obliged to go into Gaza and exterminate Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?



Jesus spoke to a Canaanite woman.

So when was it ever exclusively Jewish?


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Beelzebub

Phoenall said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Proposing of and doing evil acts need to opposed, no matter what the source.
> 
> Though it makes sense to massively limit the power of Israeli Zionists, clearly killing them all is neither necessary nor desirable, and not even possible by the meagre military that Hamas has.
> 
> As to whether this is from a Hamas source or Mossad, it would be hard to say.  Clearly some fools in Palestine think it is useful or 'feel good' to send nasty messages.  But then again, many Zionists would love to receive them, as a tool to claim victimhood again.  Even when they have more military might than most European states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> problem is every time the Israeli's are castigated for atrocities they admit to them first then at a later date prove that they did not do them but that the Palestinians did.
> They need that military might to combat the terrorism and violence emanating from the muslims. It is the Samson option if the muslims attack the Israelis have far more firepower to hit back with.
Click to expand...



I see what you are saying, but actually that is sledgehammer to nut stuff.
Israel needs peace.  It THINKS it needs war, but that  is because its leaders insist on continued expansion and ethnic cleansing of anyone who it Other" than "them".

For its opponents to allow peace, the opponents need to be given a very good measure of personal security, opportunity, and justice.  Justice in having security of their families lands, and its assets.   Security in not facing constant attacks, being killed, being robbed by the occupier.  And opportunity in not having their wealth and economy suppressed with "Israeli security" being touted as a flimsy excuse.

What Israel needs is punishment, so when it does wrong it is not rewarded.
If every time Israel arrested a young boy, killed an unarmed man, stole more land for settlements or took water resource from Palestine, Israel was deprived of a little more land, a little more money, a little of their influence, Israel would cease and make peace.

As the US rewards Israel for being aggressive to Palestine and for being aggressive to America, guess what?

Yes, the bad child learns to be worse.


Edit:
You DO know the Sampson Strategy is to nuke all major cities of nations who  "don't help enough" don't you.
So potentially, half of Europe, Berlin, and possibly even in America, if the Israeli decide you haven't been nice enough to them.

Sadly Germany gave Israel a set of nuke missile carrying subs a few years ago, so they can do it. :/


----------



## Vigilante

The reason I say many American SUPPOSED JEWS, really have replaced their religion with liberalism! Suicide is strong with those people!


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al,_

As intellectually stimulating and informative these bouts in ancient history are, they have little to nothing to do with the reality and practicalities of today.



montelatici said:


> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?


*(COMMENT)*

The "Jewish State" was first officially designated by the General Assembly in Part II - Boundaries, Section B - THE JEWISH STATE, of Resolution 181(II), and became effective on implementation midnight 14/15 May 1948, as announced by the UN Palestine Commission and the Declaration of Independence.  Subsequent acts of aggression by the Arab League attempting to introduce external interference, Wars, Armistice Arrangements, then Treaties resulted in the alteration of those initial boundaries.

Everything else is merely of prior to that is mere of historical interest; but not practically applicable in any contemporary way.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


> The reason I say many American SUPPOSED JEWS, really have replaced their religion with liberalism! Suicide is strong with those people!


Yup I say it all the time. American Jews can at times be the stupidest people on earth.


----------



## MJB12741

I agree the Palestinians need a state of their own void of any Israeli invention.  A state with Palestinian self determination whereby they can no longer be able to just suck off of Israel for their well being.  Problem is no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  So WHERE can they go where they would be welcomed?  Gosh I wonder if Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?





Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Palestinians are the people that have lived in Palestine for the past 3,000 years.  They may have changed religions, but they are the same people.  So it is their land, not the European settler's land.
> 
> 
> 
> The so-called 'Palestinians' are a polyglot of diverse native and immigrant peoples and tribes which include the descendants of those living there for centuries and those large numbers of job-seeking migrants who drifted into the region beginning in the late 19th Century as the immigrant Jews set up shop and began generating jobs and economic productivity and created a demand for large-scale unskilled Arab labor; a mixture of old-timer and newcomer blood-lines and families, drawn from various lands and countries surrounding Israel-Palestine.
> 
> And, as things stand now, they are the former owners of the land; having (a) sold-out to the Jews prior to 1948 and (b) lost their various wars against the Jews. They are now, in large part, and to all practical purposes, a state-less, land-less, displaced people. It is time for them to disperse into the surrounding Muslim-controlled countries and to begin new lives there for themselves and their families. The battle for Palestine is over. It was pretty much over by 1948-1949, and 1967 was the clincher.
> 
> Peoples are displaced from time to time as a result of warfare, but the world continues to turn, and it's now clear that the Jews of Israel are there to stay, and will eventually settle for nothing less than Eretz Yisrael, and that they have the muscle to realize their goal.
> 
> Pay off the Palestinians with some sort of wergeld, help them to relocate, let 'em go someplace where they're actually welcome, to begin new and peaceful lives, and be done with the goddamned thing - allowing the world get on with far more important business.
> 
> The pissant Palestinians simply aren't worth all this fuss, for all these years, in the larger and grander scheme of things.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

i Peoples are displaced from time to time as a result of warfare, but the world continues to turn, and it's now clear that the Jews of Israel are there to stay, and will eventually settle for nothing less than Eretz Yisrael, and that they have the muscle to realize their goal.

Naw, it is the Algeria, Rhodesia or South Africa route for the Israeli Jews.  Hopefully, the South Africa route. Most everyone realizes it except zealots.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> i Peoples are displaced from time to time as a result of warfare, but the world continues to turn, and it's now clear that the Jews of Israel are there to stay, and will eventually settle for nothing less than Eretz Yisrael, and that they have the muscle to realize their goal.
> 
> Naw, it is the Algeria, Rhodesia or South Africa route for the Israeli Jews.  Hopefully, the South Africa route. Most everyone realizes it except zealots.


Better hurry, then...


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> i Peoples are displaced from time to time as a result of warfare, but the world continues to turn, and it's now clear that the Jews of Israel are there to stay, and will eventually settle for nothing less than Eretz Yisrael, and that they have the muscle to realize their goal.
> 
> Naw, it is the Algeria, Rhodesia or South Africa route for the Israeli Jews.  Hopefully, the South Africa route. Most everyone realizes it except zealots.



Isn't it fun the way these converted Muslims conveniently leave out how people of different religions are treated in Muslim countries, but they really lap up the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hates site which inform them to mention South Africa when Israel is nothing like South Africa?  I guess like Goebbels they feel if they keep on repeating this ad nauseam, the viewers are going to start believing this nonsense.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus spoke to a Canaanite woman.
> 
> So when was it ever exclusively Jewish?
Click to expand...


from the village cana in Lebanon


----------



## Roudy

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The better question is when did it become Jewish land?  When it was taken from the Caanites, the Samaritans?  When?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus spoke to a Canaanite woman.
> 
> So when was it ever exclusively Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> from the village cana in Lebanon
Click to expand...

LOL they always get their shit wrong. Arab nationalist flag gets falsely labeled as Palestinian flag...etc.etc..


----------



## MJB12741

Good point.  Let's hope the next time Israel could use more land for growth that the Arabs will start yet another war. 





Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> i Peoples are displaced from time to time as a result of warfare, but the world continues to turn, and it's now clear that the Jews of Israel are there to stay, and will eventually settle for nothing less than Eretz Yisrael, and that they have the muscle to realize their goal.
> 
> Naw, it is the Algeria, Rhodesia or South Africa route for the Israeli Jews.  Hopefully, the South Africa route. Most everyone realizes it except zealots.
> 
> 
> 
> Better hurry, then...
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> Good point.  Let's hope the next time Israel could use more land for growth that the Arabs will start yet another war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> i Peoples are displaced from time to time as a result of warfare, but the world continues to turn, and it's now clear that the Jews of Israel are there to stay, and will eventually settle for nothing less than Eretz Yisrael, and that they have the muscle to realize their goal.
> 
> Naw, it is the Algeria, Rhodesia or South Africa route for the Israeli Jews.  Hopefully, the South Africa route. Most everyone realizes it except zealots.
> 
> 
> 
> Better hurry, then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.


----------



## MJB12741

Gosh I wondeer how the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians who elected Hamas to represent them would feel about that?






montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Let's hope the next time Israel could use more land for growth that the Arabs will start yet another war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better hurry, then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Let's hope the next time Israel could use more land for growth that the Arabs will start yet another war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better hurry, then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.
Click to expand...

End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Kondor3

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Let's hope the next time Israel could use more land for growth that the Arabs will start yet another war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...

Ouch...


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Let's hope the next time Israel could use more land for growth that the Arabs will start yet another war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.


----------



## MJB12741

HUH???  No nation would give equal rights to terrorists from within.  Don't believe that?  Just tell us of one nation that does.





montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.
> 
> 
> 
> End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> HUH???  No nation would give equal rights to terrorists from within.  Don't believe that?  Just tell us of one nation that does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


South Africa


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HUH???  No nation would give equal rights to terrorists from within.  Don't believe that?  Just tell us of one nation that does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> South Africa
Click to expand...


they were citizens of South Africa.

Palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want Israel to exist so there is no reason to try to given citizenship or equal rights.  Palestinians already have more right that many other arab in the region.  Every one has bent over backwards to cater the wants and needs of the palestinians.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HUH???  No nation would give equal rights to terrorists from within.  Don't believe that?  Just tell us of one nation that does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South Africa
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they were citizens of South Africa.
> 
> Palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want Israel to exist so there is no reason to try to given citizenship or equal rights.  Palestinians already have more right that many other arab in the region.  Every one has bent over backwards to cater the wants and needs of the palestinians.
Click to expand...


No, the non-Whites were citizens of the various occupied territories, the Bantustans, you idiot.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> South Africa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they were citizens of South Africa.
> 
> Palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want Israel to exist so there is no reason to try to given citizenship or equal rights.  Palestinians already have more right that many other arab in the region.  Every one has bent over backwards to cater the wants and needs of the palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the non-Whites were citizens of the various occupied territories, the Bantustans, you ------.
Click to expand...


The territories were autonomous, but were not independent states.  They were still part of south africa.

If you can't be civil, please avoid addressing me or responding to my posts.  I am sorry your parents did not teach you manners, somebody should have.  If you have that much trouble with your temper perhaps spending less time on this board or finding one less stressful might be to your benefit.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.
> 
> 
> 
> End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.
Click to expand...


And how exactly is that going to work when the majority of Jews moving to Israel are Orthodox Tanach Thumpers?


----------



## Billo_Really

Blake Griffin rules!



Oops, wrong thread.



_Gratuitous zone 2 compliance:
No, he's not a Palestinian._


----------



## MJB12741

Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination away from Israel's influence.  Problem is no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Thus the question becomes WHERE to free the Palestinians? Do you think maybe Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner Israel annexes the West Bank and East Jerusalem the sooner the end game.
> 
> 
> 
> End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.
Click to expand...




 Already in place inside Israel, it is outside Israel that they have a problem with violent terrorists. They don't need to annexe the west bank just occupy it till the Palestinians decide that peace is what they want.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HUH???  No nation would give equal rights to terrorists from within.  Don't believe that?  Just tell us of one nation that does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> South Africa
Click to expand...




 And this is why South Africa is the most violent country in the world. More racism, murders, rapes and violent crime since the end of apartheid. This is why the few decent blacks want a return of certain aspects of apartheid to cut down on crime. It went from a thriving economy to a bankrupt cess pit in a very short time.

 You hold up the wrong comparison child and get fed the truth when you do


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> South Africa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they were citizens of South Africa.
> 
> Palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want Israel to exist so there is no reason to try to given citizenship or equal rights.  Palestinians already have more right that many other arab in the region.  Every one has bent over backwards to cater the wants and needs of the palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the non-Whites were citizens of the various occupied territories, the Bantustans, you idiot.
Click to expand...




 MANNERS you ignorant pig, if anyone is an idiot it would be you


----------



## Phoenall

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> they were citizens of South Africa.
> 
> Palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want Israel to exist so there is no reason to try to given citizenship or equal rights.  Palestinians already have more right that many other arab in the region.  Every one has bent over backwards to cater the wants and needs of the palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the non-Whites were citizens of the various occupied territories, the Bantustans, you ------.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The territories were autonomous, but were not independent states.  They were still part of south africa.
> 
> If you can't be civil, please avoid addressing me or responding to my posts.  I am sorry your parents did not teach you manners, somebody should have.  If you have that much trouble with your temper perhaps spending less time on this board or finding one less stressful might be to your benefit.
Click to expand...





 You tell the bad mannered arrogant moron Aris, she should be banned for her bad manners and arrgressive manner.


----------



## Phoenall

MJB12741 said:


> Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination away from Israel's influence.  Problem is no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Thus the question becomes WHERE to free the Palestinians? Do you think maybe Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?





 I think our better halfs in the UK would protest overmuch if the Palestinians squatted in their Bingo Halls.

 How about the dark side of the moon ?


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> End game being what, convert?  Is this another one of your daily mental masturbation fantasies about the "end of Israel".  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The end-game means Israel beginning to acknowledge and take actions which will transform it into a secular democracy with equal rights for all people it has under its rule/control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already in place inside Israel, it is outside Israel that they have a problem with violent terrorists. They don't need to annexe the west bank just occupy it till the Palestinians decide that peace is what they want.
Click to expand...


>>...it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. <<

west bank and gaza are a separate matter being part of the PA.


----------



## Kondor3

MJB12741 said:


> Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination away from Israel's influence.  Problem is no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Thus the question becomes WHERE to free the Palestinians? Do you think maybe Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?


The alternative is to simply break them up and scatter them elsewhere. For some years now, that outcome has been looking increasingly likely to materialize, and the failure of the latest joke-caliber Peace Talks, and the proposed re-uniting of Fatah and Hamas, have actually begun to make that option appear downright attractive. One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.


----------



## MJB12741

Palestinian citizens of Israel have equal voting rights & are even represented in the Knesset.  Gee I wonder how many Jews have equal voting rights in Arab countries & are represented in their non apartheid governments?


Arab Citizens of Israel


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Beelzebub

Kondor3 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination away from Israel's influence.  Problem is no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Thus the question becomes WHERE to free the Palestinians? Do you think maybe Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
> 
> 
> 
> The alternative is to simply break them up and scatter them elsewhere. For some years now, that outcome has been looking increasingly likely to materialize, and the failure of the latest joke-caliber Peace Talks, and the proposed re-uniting of Fatah and Hamas, have actually begun to make that option appear downright attractive. One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.
Click to expand...


Wow!

Is advocating genocide within the rules of the board?


----------



## Kondor3

Beelzebub said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination away from Israel's influence.  Problem is no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Thus the question becomes WHERE to free the Palestinians? Do you think maybe Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
> 
> 
> 
> The alternative is to simply break them up and scatter them elsewhere. For some years now, that outcome has been looking increasingly likely to materialize, and the failure of the latest joke-caliber Peace Talks, and the proposed re-uniting of Fatah and Hamas, have actually begun to make that option appear downright attractive. One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> Is advocating genocide within the rules of the board?
Click to expand...

Nobody here is advocating genocide.

Go back and read the passage again.

The Jews cannot bring themselves to pull the trigger.

I could not pull the trigger either.

That leaves expulsion.

Better to kick them out than to slaughter them.

Giving them a better deal than they would have given the Jews of Israel.

Having sworn to wipe Israel off the map and to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.

It's your boys (the Palestinians) who have been advocating genocide over time, not me or mine.

Nice try.

Not.


----------



## Roudy

Beelzebub said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination away from Israel's influence.  Problem is no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Thus the question becomes WHERE to free the Palestinians? Do you think maybe Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
> 
> 
> 
> The alternative is to simply break them up and scatter them elsewhere. For some years now, that outcome has been looking increasingly likely to materialize, and the failure of the latest joke-caliber Peace Talks, and the proposed re-uniting of Fatah and Hamas, have actually begun to make that option appear downright attractive. One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> Is advocating genocide within the rules of the board?
Click to expand...

You mean like how you nazis publicly whack off to the destruction of Israel?  Good question.


----------



## aris2chat

>>One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.<<

Actually shooting the dog is better so the rabies does not spread.  With the brain inflammation you don't want the dog to suffer pain and paralysis.  You put the mad dog down, it is kinder.


----------



## Kondor3

aris2chat said:


> >>One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.<<
> 
> Actually shooting the dog is better so the rabies does not spread.  With the brain inflammation you don't want the dog to suffer pain and paralysis.  You put the mad dog down, it is kinder.


True, but that's where the analogy (rightfully) breaks down, and we are obliged to remember that although we are dealing with a Collective that may rightfully be labeled as a Mad Dog, its constituent parts are living, breathing human beings, who may prove redeemable, and who may actually have a chance at new and better and happier lives, if relocated and given a chance. By doing so, we render ourselves better people than the Palestinian Collective, which has repeatedly sworn to drown the Jews in the Med.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## aris2chat

Kondor3 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> >>One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.<<
> 
> Actually shooting the dog is better so the rabies does not spread.  With the brain inflammation you don't want the dog to suffer pain and paralysis.  You put the mad dog down, it is kinder.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but that's where the analogy (rightfully) breaks down, and we are obliged to remember that although we are dealing with a Collective that may rightfully be labeled as a Mad Dog, its constituent parts are living, breathing human beings, who may prove redeemable, and who may actually have a chance at new and better and happier lives, if relocated and given a chance. By doing so, we render ourselves better people than the Palestinian Collective, which has repeatedly sworn to drown the Jews in the Med.
Click to expand...


you remove the bad apples, you don't throw away the whole barrel.


----------



## MJB12741

No need for Israel to massacre Palestinians like the Arab countries did.  Just rub out their terrorists & their leaders.


----------



## Beelzebub

Israel would not stand for that.

It takes small children now, from their parents.  It imprisons them, isolates them and beats them, for months at a time sometimes.

When released they are shocked, traumatised, scared and fail in their education.

Israel is actually creating the conditions to ensure it has someone who hates them for decades to come.
Israel needs an enemy, so it can keep claiming to be a victim, while massively superior to any threat it may face.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Beelzebub said:


> Israel would not stand for that.
> 
> It takes small children now, from their parents.  It imprisons them, isolates them and beats them, for months at a time sometimes.
> 
> When released they are shocked, traumatised, scared and fail in their education.
> 
> Israel is actually creating the conditions to ensure it has someone who hates them for decades to come.
> Israel needs an enemy, so it can keep claiming to be a victim, while massively superior to any threat it may face.


----------



## montelatici

From a U.S. source Time Magazine.

" judging from a report on the Israeli military-justice system in the West Bank compiled by the Palestine office of the Geneva-based Defense for Children International, which works closely with the U.N. and European states........The report states that "*the ill-treatment and torture" of Palestinian child prisoners "appears to be widespread, systematic and institutionalized, *suggesting complicity at all levels of the political and military chain of command." 

Israeli Prisons: Are Palestinian Children Abused? - TIME


----------



## aris2chat

Beelzebub said:


> Israel would not stand for that.
> 
> It takes small children now, from their parents.  It imprisons them, isolates them and beats them, for months at a time sometimes.
> 
> When released they are shocked, traumatised, scared and fail in their education.
> 
> Israel is actually creating the conditions to ensure it has someone who hates them for decades to come.
> Israel needs an enemy, so it can keep claiming to be a victim, while massively superior to any threat it may face.



You of course are aware that arrest and/or questioning procedures were change so your claim is no longer valid.

Israel does not take small children, they have to be over the age of 12 to be responsible for their action.  Palestinians define a child as under 16 yrs of age.  If convinced, children only serve 6 months.

You can make a claim that any child that cries at night, or if they miss their parents is traumatized.  That would mean kids going to summer camp that cry are being traumatized as well.  Getting up before dawn, clean their room, get washed, dress and to their mess hall to eat, following direction all day.  Anyone that has been to boarding or military school can equate and would not call it torture or traumatizing.  For a 5 yr old being away from parents for the first time and in strange surroundings, but not for a 12-16 yr old. 

I'm sure they might feel that this is so terrible and cruel, and exaggerate and dramatize every little event as if the world is about to end, but in reality they just don't want to do what they are told.  Everything is a crisis.  That is what kids do and how they act.  I'm sure it is no picnic, but I doubt it is as horrifying as they claim.  They are in prison because they did something wrong.  It is supposed to leave an impression.


----------



## Beelzebub

Hahaha!

When they changed their "using children as human shield" policy the IDF immediately employed a "neighbor" technique, which meant - yes you've guess it, Using Childern as Human Shields again!

As to "Just stopped"  well that's nice.  60 or 80 years from now, the victims from last week may be gone.

And "over the age of 12".

Good god aris, you have no conscience at all do you?


----------



## aris2chat

>>Good god aris, you have no conscience at all do you?<<

I grew up with different experience than most.  I've also raise three wonderful children.  My conscience is fine.
12 yr old are no babies.  They break the law or try to hurt someone, they should be punished.  I support the scare kids straight programs.  I also support the trouble teen boot camp.  I think if kid understood the consequences they would not commit the crime, most of them.


----------



## toastman

Beelzebub said:


> Israel would not stand for that.
> 
> It takes small children now, from their parents.  It imprisons them, isolates them and beats them, for months at a time sometimes.
> 
> When released they are shocked, traumatised, scared and fail in their education.
> 
> Israel is actually creating the conditions to ensure it has someone who hates them for decades to come.
> Israel needs an enemy, so it can keep claiming to be a victim, while massively superior to any threat it may face.


----------



## Beelzebub

Where is the comment relevant to the discussion?

The rebuttal?

The alternative perspective?

Not very good are you toast.


----------



## Lipush




----------



## Kondor3

Beelzebub said:


> Israel would not stand for that.
> 
> It takes small children now, from their parents.  It imprisons them, isolates them and beats them, for months at a time sometimes.
> 
> When released they are shocked, traumatised, scared and fail in their education.
> 
> Israel is actually creating the conditions to ensure it has someone who hates them for decades to come.
> Israel needs an enemy, so it can keep claiming to be a victim, while massively superior to any threat it may face.


Sounds like the Palestinians should pack up and leave then, and go somewhere where they're wanted. There's nothing left for them, where they are now.


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel would not stand for that.
> 
> It takes small children now, from their parents.  It imprisons them, isolates them and beats them, for months at a time sometimes.
> 
> When released they are shocked, traumatised, scared and fail in their education.
> 
> Israel is actually creating the conditions to ensure it has someone who hates them for decades to come.
> Israel needs an enemy, so it can keep claiming to be a victim, while massively superior to any threat it may face.
Click to expand...

Say what you want, the Little Demon _does_ amuse...

Most likely a graduate of the Hamas-Goebbels School of Propaganda and Culinary Arts...


----------



## Kondor3

aris2chat said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel would not stand for that.
> 
> It takes small children now, from their parents.  It imprisons them, isolates them and beats them, for months at a time sometimes.
> 
> When released they are shocked, traumatised, scared and fail in their education.
> 
> Israel is actually creating the conditions to ensure it has someone who hates them for decades to come.
> Israel needs an enemy, so it can keep claiming to be a victim, while massively superior to any threat it may face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You of course are aware that arrest and/or questioning procedures were change so your claim is no longer valid.
> 
> Israel does not take small children, they have to be over the age of 12 to be responsible for their action.  Palestinians define a child as under 16 yrs of age.  If convinced, children only serve 6 months.
> 
> You can make a claim that any child that cries at night, or if they miss their parents is traumatized.  That would mean kids going to summer camp that cry are being traumatized as well.  Getting up before dawn, clean their room, get washed, dress and to their mess hall to eat, following direction all day.  Anyone that has been to boarding or military school can equate and would not call it torture or traumatizing.  For a 5 yr old being away from parents for the first time and in strange surroundings, but not for a 12-16 yr old.
> 
> I'm sure they might feel that this is so terrible and cruel, and exaggerate and dramatize every little event as if the world is about to end, but in reality they just don't want to do what they are told.  Everything is a crisis.  That is what kids do and how they act.  I'm sure it is no picnic, but I doubt it is as horrifying as they claim.  They are in prison because they did something wrong.  It is supposed to leave an impression.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

aris2chat said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> >>One shoots a Mad Dog, or, if one cannot bring one's self to pull the trigger, one banishes and expels the Mad Dog beyond one's fenced yard, forevermore, to ward-off rabies. Expulsion is preferable to annihilation.<<
> 
> Actually shooting the dog is better so the rabies does not spread.  With the brain inflammation you don't want the dog to suffer pain and paralysis.  You put the mad dog down, it is kinder.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but that's where the analogy (rightfully) breaks down, and we are obliged to remember that although we are dealing with a Collective that may rightfully be labeled as a Mad Dog, its constituent parts are living, breathing human beings, who may prove redeemable, and who may actually have a chance at new and better and happier lives, if relocated and given a chance. By doing so, we render ourselves better people than the Palestinian Collective, which has repeatedly sworn to drown the Jews in the Med.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you remove the bad apples, you don't throw away the whole barrel.
Click to expand...

True enough.

The more of those Hamas Leadership peckerwoods they kill, the better.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## MJB12741

WOW!  With 72 virgins, for men, Islam is a religion to die for.  Viagra --- Don't leave home without it. 







Vigilante said:


>


----------



## MJB12741

Are there male virgins up there in Allahland for the women?





MJB12741 said:


> WOW!  With 72 virgins, for men, Islam is a religion to die for.  Viagra --- Don't leave home without it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
Click to expand...


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Seeing as the women are taught to be 2nd class citizens, it wouldn't matter to them if a man was a virgin or not.  



MJB12741 said:


> Are there male virgins up there in Allahland for the women?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW!  With 72 virgins, for men, Islam is a religion to die for.  Viagra --- Don't leave home without it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Now, could imagine the whining and crying about antisemitism if one were to post similar cartoons regarding the takeover of Israel by the Jewish utra orthodox radicals?


----------



## MJB12741

What are you, some kind of male chauvenist who doesn't even care about the abusive treatment of women under Islamic law?  Disgusting.





montelatici said:


> Now, could imagine the whining and crying about antisemitism if one were to post similar cartoons regarding the takeover of Israel by the Jewish utra orthodox radicals?


----------



## Beelzebub

FGM is not compulsory in Islam.  Some sects practice it.  Most don't

The Hijab, hiqab and burka:  none of them are compulsory by Islam.  Modesty is, unless in private or with the same sex.

The 72 virgins is a myth put about by recruiting sergeants, esp. for young impressionable suicide bombers.  Suicide is forbidden in Islam.
They also don't get 72 virgins after death because ... well, they are dead.

In all this "Picture" approach to discussion is pretty awful.  And contains more bigotry than commentary.
Are those contributors still weaning from picture books to those with writing?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Authenticity of 72 Virgins Hadith - WikiIslam


----------



## Roudy

Beelzebub said:


> FGM is not compulsory in Islam.  Some sects practice it.  Most don't
> 
> The Hijab, hiqab and burka:  none of them are compulsory by Islam.  Modesty is, unless in private or with the same sex.
> 
> The 72 virgins is a myth put about by recruiting sergeants, esp. for young impressionable suicide bombers.  Suicide is forbidden in Islam.
> They also don't get 72 virgins after death because ... well, they are dead.
> 
> In all this "Picture" approach to discussion is pretty awful.  And contains more bigotry than commentary.
> Are those contributors still weaning from picture books to those with writing?









[/IMG]


----------



## MJB12741

As Sweet_Caroline has presented here, this is taken directly from the Hadith, the Prophet Mohammed's own words.  Is there anyone among us who can claim this is just some anti-Islam biased source or just some Zionist propaganda?  Like it or not, believe it folks, 72 virgins according to Mohammed.

Hadith and the Prophet Muhammad



QUOTE=Sweet_Caroline;9070182]Authenticity of 72 Virgins Hadith - WikiIslam[/QUOTE]


----------



## Beelzebub

I have read that, and of course - it is written -  

But it was still something that conflicts with instructions that Suicide are forbidden.

But the real clincher.  The ultimate knock-down for getting 72 virgins after death is, as I said.
They are dead.

Q.E.D.

PS:  Anyone want to argue that one?


----------



## montelatici

"This teaching is nowhere to be found in The Quran. It is a tradition associated with the reported sayings of prophet Muhammad, as recorded by others."

Misconception: Martyrs will receive 72 virgins in paradise


----------



## Beelzebub

I still find the "being dead" more convincing.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Beelzebub said:


> I still find the "being dead" more convincing.



There is eternal life in heaven for those who commit jihad and can meet their virgins.


----------



## Beelzebub

Do you actually believe that Caroline?

I ask seriously, not rhetorically.  That Muslims go to heaven, and it is as described in their books?


----------



## Lipush

Beelzebub said:


> Do you actually believe that Caroline?
> 
> I ask seriously, not rhetorically.  That Muslims go to heaven, and it is as described in their books?



Dude. You really cannot identify sarcasm even if it bites you in your....

Never mind.


----------



## aris2chat

Beelzebub said:


> FGM is not compulsory in Islam.  Some sects practice it.  Most don't
> 
> The Hijab, hiqab and burka:  none of them are compulsory by Islam.  Modesty is, unless in private or with the same sex.
> 
> The 72 virgins is a myth put about by recruiting sergeants, esp. for young impressionable suicide bombers.  Suicide is forbidden in Islam.
> They also don't get 72 virgins after death because ... well, they are dead.
> 
> In all this "Picture" approach to discussion is pretty awful.  And contains more bigotry than commentary.
> Are those contributors still weaning from picture books to those with writing?



Abu Umama narrated: "The Messenger of God said, 'Everyone that God admits into paradise will be married to 72 wives; two of them are houris and seventy of his inheritance of the [female] dwellers of hell. All of them will have libidinous sex organs and he will have an ever-erect penis.' "
Sunan Ibn Majah, Zuhd (Book of Abstinence) 39
It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad PBUH saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.
Al-Tirmidhi, Vol. 4, Ch. 21, No. 2687
Each time we sleep with a Houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [i.e. Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetizing vaginas.
Al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur'an, p. 351
Anas said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: The servant in Paradise shall be married with seventy wives. Someone said, Messenger of Allah, can he bear it? He said: He will be given strength for a hundred. From Zayd ibn Arqam, Allah be well-pleased with him, when an incredulous Jew or Christian asked the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace, Are you claiming that a man will eat and drink in Paradise?? He replied: Yes, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, and each of them will be given the strength of a hundred men in his eating, drinking, coitus, and pleasure.
Sifat al-Janna, al-`Uqayli in the Du`afa, and Musnad of Abu Bakr al-Bazzar
This [Qur'an 78:33] means round breasts. They meant by this that the breasts of these girls will be fully rounded and not sagging, because they will be virgins, equal in age.
Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 10 Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur'an, 333-334

Quran verse 56:36, 56:22, 78:33
Sahih Bukhari 1:5:268


----------



## Roudy

aris2chat said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> FGM is not compulsory in Islam.  Some sects practice it.  Most don't
> 
> The Hijab, hiqab and burka:  none of them are compulsory by Islam.  Modesty is, unless in private or with the same sex.
> 
> The 72 virgins is a myth put about by recruiting sergeants, esp. for young impressionable suicide bombers.  Suicide is forbidden in Islam.
> They also don't get 72 virgins after death because ... well, they are dead.
> 
> In all this "Picture" approach to discussion is pretty awful.  And contains more bigotry than commentary.
> Are those contributors still weaning from picture books to those with writing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abu Umama narrated: "The Messenger of God said, 'Everyone that God admits into paradise will be married to 72 wives; two of them are houris and seventy of his inheritance of the [female] dwellers of hell. All of them will have libidinous sex organs and he will have an ever-erect penis.' "
> Sunan Ibn Majah, Zuhd (Book of Abstinence) 39
> It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad PBUH saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.
> Al-Tirmidhi, Vol. 4, Ch. 21, No. 2687
> Each time we sleep with a Houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [i.e. Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetizing vaginas.
> Al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur'an, p. 351
> Anas said, Allah be well-pleased with him: The Messenger of Allah said, upon him blessings and peace: The servant in Paradise shall be married with seventy wives. Someone said, Messenger of Allah, can he bear it? He said: He will be given strength for a hundred. From Zayd ibn Arqam, Allah be well-pleased with him, when an incredulous Jew or Christian asked the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace, Are you claiming that a man will eat and drink in Paradise?? He replied: Yes, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, and each of them will be given the strength of a hundred men in his eating, drinking, coitus, and pleasure.
> Sifat al-Janna, al-`Uqayli in the Du`afa, and Musnad of Abu Bakr al-Bazzar
> This [Qur'an 78:33] means round breasts. They meant by this that the breasts of these girls will be fully rounded and not sagging, because they will be virgins, equal in age.
> Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 10 Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur'an, 333-334
> 
> Quran verse 56:36, 56:22, 78:33
> Sahih Bukhari 1:5:268
Click to expand...

Can we get an Allah Akbar to that?


----------



## Beelzebub

Lipush said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe that Caroline?
> 
> I ask seriously, not rhetorically.  That Muslims go to heaven, and it is as described in their books?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude. You really cannot identify sarcasm even if it bites you in your....
> 
> Never mind.
Click to expand...



I am still interested in your answer to my question.
I propose that they, being dead, get no 72 virgins.

Do you agree with that, or do you think they have an afterlife and a realistic hope of anything that is written in their holy book.

Being that they have the same god as Christianity and Judaism, and that all the books have their own self contradictory and occasionally whacko passages, do you think they get their virgins?  Or anything?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Beelzebub said:


> Do you actually believe that Caroline?
> 
> I ask seriously, not rhetorically.  That Muslims go to heaven, and it is as described in their books?



I don't but they do, which is why they aspire to be martyrs.  Little do they know they don't go upstairs, but downstairs.


----------



## Beelzebub

Well I don't see why.  If they have followed all the tenants of their faith.

Are you suggesting that God has an ethnic leaning too?


----------



## Lipush

Beelzebub said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe that Caroline?
> 
> I ask seriously, not rhetorically.  That Muslims go to heaven, and it is as described in their books?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude. You really cannot identify sarcasm even if it bites you in your....
> 
> Never mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am still interested in your answer to my question.
> I propose that they, being dead, get no 72 virgins.
> 
> Do you agree with that, or do you think they have an afterlife and a realistic hope of anything that is written in their holy book.
> 
> Being that they have the same god as Christianity and Judaism, and that all the books have their own self contradictory and occasionally whacko passages, do you think they get their virgins?  Or anything?
Click to expand...


That question wasn't adressed to me, but to Caroline.

Sorry to disappoint you, but we're still not the same person, though I don't have a problem with the comparison.

So do you want an honest answer from me or from Caroline?


----------



## Lipush

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe that Caroline?
> 
> I ask seriously, not rhetorically.  That Muslims go to heaven, and it is as described in their books?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't but they do, which is why they aspire to be martyrs.  Little do they know they don't go upstairs, but downstairs.
Click to expand...


People should stand corrected, it's not 72 virgins, but a virgin at the age of 72


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Hossfly

Lipush said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe that Caroline?
> 
> I ask seriously, not rhetorically.  That Muslims go to heaven, and it is as described in their books?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't but they do, which is why they aspire to be martyrs.  Little do they know they don't go upstairs, but downstairs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People should stand corrected, it's not 72 virgins, but a virgin at the age of 72
Click to expand...

Lipush, there's another possibility  A misunderstanding. Here's an example




When Obama died, George Washington met him at the Pearly Gates. He slapped him across the face and yelled, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive?"

Patrick Henry approached, punched him in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."

James Madison followed, kicked him in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"

Thomas Jefferson was next, beat Obama with a long cane and snarled, "It was evil men like you who inspired me to write the Declaration of Independence."

The beatings and thrashings continued as George Mason, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans unleashed their anger on the radical, socialist, leader.

As Obama lay bleeding and in pain, an Angel appeared. Obama wept and said, "This is not what you promised me."

The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 VIRGINIANS waiting for you in Heaven. What did you think I said"....."You really need to listen when someone is trying to tell you something!"


----------



## Beelzebub

Lipush said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude. You really cannot identify sarcasm even if it bites you in your....
> 
> Never mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am still interested in your answer to my question.
> I propose that they, being dead, get no 72 virgins.
> 
> Do you agree with that, or do you think they have an afterlife and a realistic hope of anything that is written in their holy book.
> 
> Being that they have the same god as Christianity and Judaism, and that all the books have their own self contradictory and occasionally whacko passages, do you think they get their virgins?  Or anything?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That question wasn't adressed to me, but to Caroline.
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you, but we're still not the same person, though I don't have a problem with the comparison.
> 
> So do you want an honest answer from me or from Caroline?
Click to expand...


Oops.

All you Zionists look alike to me. 

From you please Lipush, since you ask so nicely. 
And Caroline too if you are willing.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Lipush

Beelzebub said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am still interested in your answer to my question.
> I propose that they, being dead, get no 72 virgins.
> 
> Do you agree with that, or do you think they have an afterlife and a realistic hope of anything that is written in their holy book.
> 
> Being that they have the same god as Christianity and Judaism, and that all the books have their own self contradictory and occasionally whacko passages, do you think they get their virgins?  Or anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That question wasn't adressed to me, but to Caroline.
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you, but we're still not the same person, though I don't have a problem with the comparison.
> 
> So do you want an honest answer from me or from Caroline?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oops.
> 
> All you Zionists look alike to me.
> 
> From you please Lipush, since you ask so nicely.
> And Caroline too if you are willing.
Click to expand...


I don't believe in that, no.

Oh, oh, which reminds me! 



Watch from *5:17*


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Beelzebub

Lipush said:


> ...
> 
> Oh, oh, which reminds me!
> 
> 
> 
> Watch from *5:17*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFelEa8wAIk



Hahaha!

I got it wrong and watched from the start.

And I fully agree on the 72.  And worse, when each is "sorted" they are virgins again the NEXT DAY!


----------



## MJB12741

Yep!  Gotta feel sympathetic toward those "peace loving" Palestinians under Israel's brutal treatment of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so those "peace loving" Palestinians can remain squatters on Israel's land.









Vigilante said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


>


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
Click to expand...


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
Click to expand...


Bar refaeli is still hotter


----------



## montelatici

And then they say they aren't related.


----------



## montelatici

http://www.alternativenews.org/english/images/stories/news/2012/january/jewish-family-burqa-beit-shemesh.jpg
Even the little ones!


----------



## Lipush

They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.

What a lame comparison


----------



## montelatici

Lipush said:


> They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.
> 
> What a lame comparison



You would say that.


----------



## Roudy

Lipush said:


> They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.
> 
> What a lame comparison


All his comparisons are lame and false.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.
> 
> What a lame comparison
> 
> 
> 
> All his comparisons are lame and false.
Click to expand...


Oh dear.  Let's look at this objectively.  Some Jews dress just like some Muslims, are we concerned about the absolute numbers that do respectively?  Other than that, the photo is just that, a photo of Jews in Jerusalem.  Make of it what you will.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.
> 
> What a lame comparison
> 
> 
> 
> All his comparisons are lame and false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  Let's look at this objectively.  Some Jews dress just like some Muslims, are we concerned about the absolute numbers that do respectively?  Other than that, the photo is just that, a photo of Jews in Jerusalem.  Make of it what you will.
Click to expand...

Oh dear, nuns and sisters dress like Muslims too.  But that doesn't mean the ENTIRE Christian world dresses like that.  Whereas in Hamas Gaza shitland and many If not most Muslim countries wearing Islamic attire like that is mandatory and carries punishment if women don't comply.

You see how idiotic your comparisons are?  All the behavior of a stupid convert to Islam trying to justify the barbarism among his co religionists. 

Another false comparison goes down in flames, this seems to be a pattern with you, MOHOMOD. Ha ha ha.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bar refaeli is still hotter
Click to expand...







OK, but I have friends that hot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.
> 
> What a lame comparison
> 
> 
> 
> All his comparisons are lame and false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  Let's look at this objectively.  Some Jews dress just like some Muslims, are we concerned about the absolute numbers that do respectively?  Other than that, the photo is just that, a photo of Jews in Jerusalem.  Make of it what you will.
Click to expand...


And how many Palestinians wear burkas?


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> All his comparisons are lame and false.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear. Let's look at this objectively. Some Jews dress just like some Muslims, are we concerned about the absolute numbers that do respectively? Other than that, the photo is just that, a photo of Jews in Jerusalem. Make of it what you will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how many Palestinians wear burkas?
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

How precious is a mother's love.  Feel the Palestinian  pride.









Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear. Let's look at this objectively. Some Jews dress just like some Muslims, are we concerned about the absolute numbers that do respectively? Other than that, the photo is just that, a photo of Jews in Jerusalem. Make of it what you will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And how many Palestinians wear burkas?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante

MJB12741 said:


> How precious is a mother's love. Feel the Palestinian pride.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how many Palestinians wear burkas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Not even animals give up their YOUNG without a fight, and most of the time, it's a fight to the death TO PROTECT THEM.... Seems these muslims aren't as ethical, as FERAL DOGS!


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> And then they say they aren't related.



Purim costumes?


----------



## Lipush

montelatici said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.
> 
> What a lame comparison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would say that.
Click to expand...


Anyone with half a brain would say that.


----------



## Lipush

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're less than 0.1% of the Jewish population.
> 
> What a lame comparison
> 
> 
> 
> All his comparisons are lame and false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  Let's look at this objectively.  Some Jews dress just like some Muslims, are we concerned about the absolute numbers that do respectively?  Other than that, the photo is just that, a photo of Jews in Jerusalem.  Make of it what you will.
Click to expand...


Oh, _please!_

Do you even check yourself where the photos are from?

It's from Beit Shemesh.

Those women are called 'The Taliban cult women' because they dress like the women in Pakistan. 

The Rabbis long ago called to stay away from this radical minority in Beit Shemesh, claiming they're not really Jews but a very radical cult. The Rabbis' exact words regarding them were -_Shomer Nafsho Yirhak_- those who love their souls would stay away.

They're a very small group living in Beit Shemesh, most Hareidi community sees them as insane. Their numbers don't even cross the hundreds.

So yeah, that comparison is more than lame.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bar refaeli is still hotter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but I have friends that hot.
Click to expand...


leave that aside, where did she get that swimsuit?!


----------



## Hossfly

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bar refaeli is still hotter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but I have friends that hot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> leave that aside, where did she get that swimsuit?!
Click to expand...

Dollar General closeout sale.


----------



## MJB12741

Which life form is lower?  Roaches who don't kill their own offsprings, or Palestinians who do?





Vigilante said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How precious is a mother's love. Feel the Palestinian pride.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even animals give up their YOUNG without a fight, and most of the time, it's a fight to the death TO PROTECT THEM.... Seems these muslims aren't as ethical, as FERAL DOGS!
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

How fascinating it is that Palestinians & their supporters cry about how many more Palestinians have been killed by Israeli's than Israeli's killed by Palestinians & yet the Palestinians keep on attacking Israeli's to insure Israeli retaliations to keep this trend going.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.






MJB12741 said:


> Which life form is lower?  Roaches who don't kill their own offsprings, or Palestinians who do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How precious is a mother's love. Feel the Palestinian pride.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even animals give up their YOUNG without a fight, and most of the time, it's a fight to the death TO PROTECT THEM.... Seems these muslims aren't as ethical, as FERAL DOGS!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## montelatici

Vigilante said:


>


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
Click to expand...


Do you see any mention of DEATH on your picture.... I can wait, I can also wait for your observation about the Palestine child dressed up as a suicide bomber!


----------



## montelatici

Vigilante said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you see any mention of DEATH on your picture.... I can wait, I can also wait for your observation about the Palestine child dressed up as a suicide bomber!
Click to expand...


You posted an image that was probably photo shopped and published by the Hasbara bunch.

I post something from an Israeli news outlet.  


"Vandals scrawled* "Death to Arabs" and "Greetings to Fureidis, Price Tag,"* on the windows of the practice of a Druze dentist in Yokneam on Wednesday, the latest in a spate of hate crimes that has swept Israel in recent weeks."

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/..._gen/derivatives/landscape_640/1971114219.jpg

Hate crimes in north Israel: 'Death to Arabs' scrawled on window, car tires punctured - National Israel News | Haaretz


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see any mention of DEATH on your picture.... I can wait, I can also wait for your observation about the Palestine child dressed up as a suicide bomber!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You posted an image that was probably photo shopped and published by the Hasbara bunch.*
> 
> I post something from an Israeli news outlet.
> 
> 
> "Vandals scrawled* "Death to Arabs" and "Greetings to Fureidis, Price Tag,"* on the windows of the practice of a Druze dentist in Yokneam on Wednesday, the latest in a spate of hate crimes that has swept Israel in recent weeks."
> 
> http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/..._gen/derivatives/landscape_640/1971114219.jpg
> 
> Hate crimes in north Israel: 'Death to Arabs' scrawled on window, car tires punctured - National Israel News | Haaretz
Click to expand...


Please find some evidence of that, as you state PROBABLY, and it seems to most, you can't refute it, secondly, what about the Palestine GIRL being dressed as a suicide bomber.... come on, I won't let that go, as I have NEVER SEEN any Israeli child dressed in such a manner.... Palestinian's are SHIT PEOPLE for treating their children like that. In America those dogs would be arrested for child abuse, at least, and attempted murder would be more appropriate!


----------



## montelatici

i what about the Palestine GIRL being dressed as a suicide bomber

Unless you show me the source, I say it is Hasbara propaganda.  

But here is something you would approve of:


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> i what about the Palestine GIRL being dressed as a suicide bomber
> 
> Unless you show me the source, I say it is Hasbara propaganda.
> 
> But here is something you would approve of:



Where is the SUICIDE VEST????


----------



## montelatici

Vigilante said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> i what about the Palestine GIRL being dressed as a suicide bomber
> 
> Unless you show me the source, I say it is Hasbara propaganda.
> 
> But here is something you would approve of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the SUICIDE VEST????
Click to expand...



The parties in the conflict have different means.  The Israelis have an overwhelming arms advantage, the Christians and Muslims have what they have.  When desperate the Japanese used kimakazis.  The Jews had Masada.  Grow up.


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> i what about the Palestine GIRL being dressed as a suicide bomber
> 
> Unless you show me the source, I say it is Hasbara propaganda.
> 
> But here is something you would approve of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the SUICIDE VEST????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The parties in the conflict have different means. The Israelis have an overwhelming arms advantage, the Christians and Muslims have what they have. When desperate the Japanese used kimakazis. The Jews had Masada. Grow up.
Click to expand...


Did those people use their children as weapons of mass destruction? ONLY dog muslims use their children, the HOPE of all people are their children, except the dog muslims!


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> i what about the Palestine GIRL being dressed as a suicide bomber
> 
> Unless you show me the source, I say it is Hasbara propaganda.
> 
> But here is something you would approve of:



Lol and?? 

You really are getting desperate!


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see any mention of DEATH on your picture.... I can wait, I can also wait for your observation about the Palestine child dressed up as a suicide bomber!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You posted an image that was probably photo shopped and published by the Hasbara bunch.
> 
> I post something from an Israeli news outlet.
> 
> 
> "Vandals scrawled* "Death to Arabs" and "Greetings to Fureidis, Price Tag,"* on the windows of the practice of a Druze dentist in Yokneam on Wednesday, the latest in a spate of hate crimes that has swept Israel in recent weeks."
> 
> http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/..._gen/derivatives/landscape_640/1971114219.jpg
> 
> Hate crimes in north Israel: 'Death to Arabs' scrawled on window, car tires punctured - National Israel News | Haaretz
Click to expand...


paint can be removed, if you plant a bomb and blow it up you can't put every thing back together


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## MJB12741

Yes, different means for different people.  Just curious, who were those scum of the earth people who actually stooped so low as to murder all the members of a world Olympics team in Munich?







montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> i what about the Palestine GIRL being dressed as a suicide bomber
> 
> Unless you show me the source, I say it is Hasbara propaganda.
> 
> But here is something you would approve of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the SUICIDE VEST????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The parties in the conflict have different means.  The Israelis have an overwhelming arms advantage, the Christians and Muslims have what they have.  When desperate the Japanese used kimakazis.  The Jews had Masada.  Grow up.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Are the Israelis that are shooting Palestinian kids (footballers) scum of the earth?

*Fifa Urged to Ban Israel over Shooting of Palestinian Boy Footballers*


"The calls for Israel to be removed from the global footballing body Fifa have grown louder after two Palestinian footballers were reportedly shot in the feet at an Israeli checkpoint, preventing them from ever playing football again.

"http://news.yahoo.com/fifa-urged-ban-israel-over-shooting-palestinian-boy-155328326.html


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Are the Israelis that are shooting Palestinian kids (footballers) scum of the earth?
> 
> *Fifa Urged to Ban Israel over Shooting of Palestinian Boy Footballers*
> 
> 
> "The calls for Israel to be removed from the global footballing body Fifa have grown louder after two Palestinian footballers *were reportedly shot in the feet* at an Israeli checkpoint, preventing them from ever playing football again.
> 
> "http://news.yahoo.com/fifa-urged-ban-israel-over-shooting-palestinian-boy-155328326.html



Prove it!...As you always say! AND STILL NOTHING ABOUT THE HOMICIDE VEST PUT ON A LITTLE MUSLIM GIRL BY HER MOTHER.....ANIMALS!


----------



## montelatici

Vigilante said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are the Israelis that are shooting Palestinian kids (footballers) scum of the earth?
> 
> *Fifa Urged to Ban Israel over Shooting of Palestinian Boy Footballers*
> 
> 
> "The calls for Israel to be removed from the global footballing body Fifa have grown louder after two Palestinian footballers *were reportedly shot in the feet* at an Israeli checkpoint, preventing them from ever playing football again.
> 
> "http://news.yahoo.com/fifa-urged-ban-israel-over-shooting-palestinian-boy-155328326.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it!...As you always say! AND STILL NOTHING ABOUT THE HOMICIDE VEST PUT ON A LITTLE MUSLIM GIRL BY HER MOTHER.....ANIMALS!
Click to expand...


Prove what? 

You prove that the photo is not a Hasbara propaganda shot.  

Of course, if a mother really put an explosive belt on her daughter with the thought that she would blow herself up, it would not reflect well on the mother.  But, it is almost certainly Hasbara propaganda.  They are very effective at bamboozling Americans.

"Perhaps the most robust section of the Hasbara website is its Resources tab, which includes links to talking points, posters and programming ideas, for intended use by pro-Israel college students. Educational materials include Orientalist and Islamophobic videos, such as one that asks, What if Arab and Muslim countries became bastions for equal rights and basic liberties, instead of barriers to human development and progress?

Clearly, the aim of these media is not to educate, but rather, to disseminate anti-Arab and anti-Muslim literature for the broader goals of whitewashing the illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. Such racist and crooked propaganda has already taken root across the UCLA campus, manifesting itself in the deplorable statements that circulated at the Undergraduate Students Association Council meeting on Feb. 25, in which Arab and Muslim communities were targeted through language frighteningly similar to that deployed by the Hasbara website."

Submission: Daily Bruin should have disclosed authors? link to Hasbara | Daily Bruin


----------



## MJB12741

Based on what we all witnessed when Israel granted the Palestinians their own Gaza, can you imagine the self inflicted genocide the Palestinians would commit upon themselves if Israel ever granted them their own Palestinian State with self determination not having Israel to suck off of any longer for their means of support?


----------



## montelatici

Israel created a Gulag where they control the population, air space, territorial sea and land borders and use it for target practice occasionally.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Israel created a Gulag where they control the population, air space, territorial sea and land borders and use it for target practice occasionally.


Its occupants need to pack-up and leave, then, don't they?


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel created a Gulag where they control the population, air space, territorial sea and land borders and use it for target practice occasionally.
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupants need to pack-up and leave, then, don't they?
Click to expand...


Where to?  Are you recommending ethnic cleansing, which is a crime against humanity?


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are the Israelis that are shooting Palestinian kids (footballers) scum of the earth?
> 
> *Fifa Urged to Ban Israel over Shooting of Palestinian Boy Footballers*
> 
> 
> "The calls for Israel to be removed from the global footballing body Fifa have grown louder after two Palestinian footballers *were reportedly shot in the feet* at an Israeli checkpoint, preventing them from ever playing football again.
> 
> "http://news.yahoo.com/fifa-urged-ban-israel-over-shooting-palestinian-boy-155328326.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it!...As you always say! AND STILL NOTHING ABOUT THE HOMICIDE VEST PUT ON A LITTLE MUSLIM GIRL BY HER MOTHER.....ANIMALS!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove what?
> 
> You prove that the photo is not a Hasbara propaganda shot.
> 
> Of course, if a mother really put an explosive belt on her daughter with the thought that she would blow herself up, it would not reflect well on the mother.  But, it is almost certainly Hasbara propaganda.  They are very effective at bamboozling Americans.
> 
> "Perhaps the most robust section of the Hasbara website is its Resources tab, which includes links to talking points, posters and programming ideas, for intended use by pro-Israel college students. Educational materials include Orientalist and Islamophobic videos, such as one that asks, What if Arab and Muslim countries became bastions for equal rights and basic liberties, instead of barriers to human development and progress?
> 
> Clearly, the aim of these media is not to educate, but rather, to disseminate anti-Arab and anti-Muslim literature for the broader goals of whitewashing the illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. Such racist and crooked propaganda has already taken root across the UCLA campus, manifesting itself in the deplorable statements that circulated at the Undergraduate Students Association Council meeting on Feb. 25, in which Arab and Muslim communities were targeted through language frighteningly similar to that deployed by the Hasbara website."
> 
> Submission: Daily Bruin should have disclosed authors? link to Hasbara | Daily Bruin
Click to expand...

As long as Hamas has supporters like Montelatici, Turnspeak will exist.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel created a Gulag where they control the population, air space, territorial sea and land borders and use it for target practice occasionally.
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupants need to pack-up and leave, then, don't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where to?  Are you recommending ethnic cleansing, which is a crime against humanity?
Click to expand...

Of course he didn't. Merely bussed back to their native countries.


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupants need to pack-up and leave, then, don't they?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where to?  Are you recommending ethnic cleansing, which is a crime against humanity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course he didn't. Merely bussed back to their native countries.
Click to expand...


Again with the Zionist propaganda.  No matter how much source material that is provided and linked to from UN archives and the like, for you to read and learn, you continue to trumpet propaganda you know is untrue.  It's like the little child that put his hands over his ears and says blah, blah, blah when the truth is being told to him.

The Christians and the Muslims of Palestine are the indigenous people, the European settlers came from Europe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Based on what we all witnessed when Israel granted the Palestinians their own Gaza, can you imagine the self inflicted genocide the Palestinians would commit upon themselves if Israel ever granted them their own Palestinian State with self determination not having Israel to suck off of any longer for their means of support?



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5BDwEW6uw]Laila El-Haddad, Journalist, Author, Gaza Mom-The Autograph-09-21-2011 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel created a Gulag where they control the population, air space, territorial sea and land borders and use it for target practice occasionally.
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupants need to pack-up and leave, then, don't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where to?  Are you recommending ethnic cleansing, which is a crime against humanity?
Click to expand...

Some to Jordan...

Some to Lebanon...

Some to Egypt...

Some to Iraq...

Some to Saudi Arabia...

Some to Libya...

Some to Morocco...

Whomever will take a modest percentage of them, in exchange for a couple of decades of financial support, in whole or in part, for such a population transfer...

As many as can be convinced to leave of their own accord...

With the rest being forcibly evicted and expelled once the 'volunteers' have all received their pay-off wergeld and compensation for their troubles and relocation assistance...

A more fair and gentle arrangement than what the Muslims of Lebanon did for their Christian countrymen...


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on what we all witnessed when Israel granted the Palestinians their own Gaza, can you imagine the self inflicted genocide the Palestinians would commit upon themselves if Israel ever granted them their own Palestinian State with self determination not having Israel to suck off of any longer for their means of support?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5BDwEW6uw]Laila El-Haddad, Journalist, Author, Gaza Mom-The Autograph-09-21-2011 - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


The crime is that Hamas, as authority in gaza, is waging war on Israel.

If there are shortages it because hamas does not want to pay the PA for supplies or because certain items that are dual use are not permitted in gaza, because of violence.  When things are peaceful, most supplies enter without a problem, but they still have to be distributed by hamas, which many are not.
If they don't like what is happening they should get rid of Hamas and bring in a more moderate authority that will not permit the use of violence and will recognize Israel's right to exist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on what we all witnessed when Israel granted the Palestinians their own Gaza, can you imagine the self inflicted genocide the Palestinians would commit upon themselves if Israel ever granted them their own Palestinian State with self determination not having Israel to suck off of any longer for their means of support?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5BDwEW6uw]Laila El-Haddad, Journalist, Author, Gaza Mom-The Autograph-09-21-2011 - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The crime is that Hamas, as authority in gaza, is waging war on Israel.
> 
> If there are shortages it because hamas does not want to pay the PA for supplies or because certain items that are dual use are not permitted in gaza, because of violence.  When things are peaceful, most supplies enter without a problem, but they still have to be distributed by hamas, which many are not.
> If they don't like what is happening they should get rid of Hamas and bring in a more moderate authority that will not permit the use of violence and will recognize Israel's right to exist.
Click to expand...


Who was Israel's boogyman before there was Hamas?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Laila El-Haddad, Journalist, Author, Gaza Mom-The Autograph-09-21-2011 - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The crime is that Hamas, as authority in gaza, is waging war on Israel.
> 
> If there are shortages it because hamas does not want to pay the PA for supplies or because certain items that are dual use are not permitted in gaza, because of violence.  When things are peaceful, most supplies enter without a problem, but they still have to be distributed by hamas, which many are not.
> If they don't like what is happening they should get rid of Hamas and bring in a more moderate authority that will not permit the use of violence and will recognize Israel's right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who was Israel's boogyman before there was Hamas?
Click to expand...

Call  your handlers at Hamas Terrorist HQ and ask them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> The crime is that Hamas, as authority in gaza, is waging war on Israel.
> 
> If there are shortages it because hamas does not want to pay the PA for supplies or because certain items that are dual use are not permitted in gaza, because of violence.  When things are peaceful, most supplies enter without a problem, but they still have to be distributed by hamas, which many are not.
> If they don't like what is happening they should get rid of Hamas and bring in a more moderate authority that will not permit the use of violence and will recognize Israel's right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who was Israel's boogyman before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Call  your handlers at Hamas Terrorist HQ and ask them?
Click to expand...


The terrorist card is no longer the ace of trump.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was Israel's boogyman before there was Hamas?
> 
> 
> 
> Call  your handlers at Hamas Terrorist HQ and ask them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The terrorist card is no longer the ace of trump.
Click to expand...

Truth be told, it never truly was.

But it earned 'you' the lasting enmity and distrust of the wider world, beyond the domain of Islam.

Nothing subsequent to that is going to do 'you' any good, because of that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Call  your handlers at Hamas Terrorist HQ and ask them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The terrorist card is no longer the ace of trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth be told, it never truly was.
> 
> But it earned 'you' the lasting enmity and distrust of the wider world, beyond the domain of Islam.
> 
> Nothing subsequent to that is going to do 'you' any good, because of that.
Click to expand...


Indeed, "terrorist" was one of Israel's more successful propaganda campaigns.

It is losing its salt.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The terrorist card is no longer the ace of trump.
> 
> 
> 
> Truth be told, it never truly was.
> 
> But it earned 'you' the lasting enmity and distrust of the wider world, beyond the domain of Islam.
> 
> Nothing subsequent to that is going to do 'you' any good, because of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, "terrorist" was one of Israel's more successful propaganda campaigns.
> 
> It is losing its salt.
Click to expand...


That's the dumbest thing I ever hear. 
What about the other countries who consider them terrorists?
Lemme guess, it's all a conspiracy, right??


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The terrorist card is no longer the ace of trump.
> 
> 
> 
> Truth be told, it never truly was.
> 
> But it earned 'you' the lasting enmity and distrust of the wider world, beyond the domain of Islam.
> 
> Nothing subsequent to that is going to do 'you' any good, because of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, "terrorist" was one of Israel's more successful propaganda campaigns.
> 
> It is losing its salt.
Click to expand...

Munich


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truth be told, it never truly was.
> 
> But it earned 'you' the lasting enmity and distrust of the wider world, beyond the domain of Islam.
> 
> Nothing subsequent to that is going to do 'you' any good, because of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, "terrorist" was one of Israel's more successful propaganda campaigns.
> 
> It is losing its salt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I ever hear.
> What about the other countries who consider them terrorists?
> Lemme guess, it's all a conspiracy, right??
Click to expand...


How many countries are there in the world?

How many have designated Hamas as terrorists?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, "terrorist" was one of Israel's more successful propaganda campaigns.
> 
> It is losing its salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I ever hear.
> What about the other countries who consider them terrorists?
> Lemme guess, it's all a conspiracy, right??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries are there in the world?
> 
> How many have designated Hamas as terrorists?
Click to expand...

Only the key countries matter. No one cares if Monaco doesn't list them as terrorists.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, "terrorist" was one of Israel's more successful propaganda campaigns.
> 
> It is losing its salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I ever hear.
> What about the other countries who consider them terrorists?
> Lemme guess, it's all a conspiracy, right??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries are there in the world?
> 
> How many have designated Hamas as terrorists?
Click to expand...

US, EU, Canada, Australia, Japan, etc. etc. etc.  

You live in the US don't you?  Yet you continue to openly support an organization that according the US law has been clearly classified as TERRORIST.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, "terrorist" was one of Israel's more successful propaganda campaigns.
> 
> It is losing its salt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I ever hear.
> What about the other countries who consider them terrorists?
> Lemme guess, it's all a conspiracy, right??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries are there in the world?
> 
> How many have designated Hamas as terrorists?
Click to expand...


9 leading countries have listed palestinian Hamas as terrorist plus EU,  four more will not have contact with hamas, three have listed it as not terrorist and most have no opinion.
There are other groups that use the name hamas in other countries where they carry out their own terrorist activity.


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are the Israelis that are shooting Palestinian kids (footballers) scum of the earth?
> 
> *Fifa Urged to Ban Israel over Shooting of Palestinian Boy Footballers*
> 
> 
> "The calls for Israel to be removed from the global footballing body Fifa have grown louder after two Palestinian footballers *were reportedly shot in the feet* at an Israeli checkpoint, preventing them from ever playing football again.
> 
> "http://news.yahoo.com/fifa-urged-ban-israel-over-shooting-palestinian-boy-155328326.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it!...As you always say! AND STILL NOTHING ABOUT THE HOMICIDE VEST PUT ON A LITTLE MUSLIM GIRL BY HER MOTHER.....ANIMALS!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove what?
> 
> You prove that the photo is not a Hasbara propaganda shot.
> 
> Of course, if a mother really put an explosive belt on her daughter with the thought that she would blow herself up, it would not reflect well on the mother. But, it is almost certainly Hasbara propaganda. They are very effective at bamboozling Americans.
> 
> "Perhaps the most robust section of the Hasbara website is its Resources tab, which includes links to talking points, posters and programming ideas, for intended use by pro-Israel college students. Educational materials include Orientalist and Islamophobic videos, such as one that asks, What if Arab and Muslim countries became bastions for equal rights and basic liberties, instead of barriers to human development and progress?
> 
> Clearly, the aim of these media is not to educate, but rather, to disseminate anti-Arab and anti-Muslim literature for the broader goals of whitewashing the illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. Such racist and crooked propaganda has already taken root across the UCLA campus, manifesting itself in the deplorable statements that circulated at the Undergraduate Students Association Council meeting on Feb. 25, in which Arab and Muslim communities were targeted through language frighteningly similar to that deployed by the Hasbara website."
> 
> Submission: Daily Bruin should have disclosed authors? link to Hasbara | Daily Bruin
Click to expand...


More Terrorist loving bullshit from America's enemies sympathizer... Not even honest enough to condemn fucking muslim women that send their daughters off to die for a CULT LEADER!


----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it!...As you always say! AND STILL NOTHING ABOUT THE HOMICIDE VEST PUT ON A LITTLE MUSLIM GIRL BY HER MOTHER.....ANIMALS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove what?
> 
> You prove that the photo is not a Hasbara propaganda shot.
> 
> Of course, if a mother really put an explosive belt on her daughter with the thought that she would blow herself up, it would not reflect well on the mother. But, it is almost certainly Hasbara propaganda. They are very effective at bamboozling Americans.
> 
> "Perhaps the most robust section of the Hasbara website is its Resources tab, which includes links to talking points, posters and programming ideas, for intended use by pro-Israel college students. Educational materials include Orientalist and Islamophobic videos, such as one that asks, What if Arab and Muslim countries became bastions for equal rights and basic liberties, instead of barriers to human development and progress?
> 
> Clearly, the aim of these media is not to educate, but rather, to disseminate anti-Arab and anti-Muslim literature for the broader goals of whitewashing the illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. Such racist and crooked propaganda has already taken root across the UCLA campus, manifesting itself in the deplorable statements that circulated at the Undergraduate Students Association Council meeting on Feb. 25, in which Arab and Muslim communities were targeted through language frighteningly similar to that deployed by the Hasbara website."
> 
> Submission: Daily Bruin should have disclosed authors? link to Hasbara | Daily Bruin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More Terrorist loving bullshit from America's enemies sympathizer... Not even honest enough to condemn fucking muslim women that send their daughters off to die for a CULT LEADER!
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I ever hear.
> What about the other countries who consider them terrorists?
> Lemme guess, it's all a conspiracy, right??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many countries are there in the world?
> 
> How many have designated Hamas as terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 9 leading countries have listed palestinian Hamas as terrorist plus EU,  four more will not have contact with hamas, three have listed it as not terrorist and most have no opinion.
> There are other groups that use the name hamas in other countries where they carry out their own terrorist activity.
Click to expand...


So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many countries are there in the world?
> 
> How many have designated Hamas as terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9 leading countries have listed palestinian Hamas as terrorist plus EU,  four more will not have contact with hamas, three have listed it as not terrorist and most have no opinion.
> There are other groups that use the name hamas in other countries where they carry out their own terrorist activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
Click to expand...


Australia : The military wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, is listed as a terrorist organization.[334]

Canada: Lists Hamas as a terrorist group in the Canadian Criminal Code.[335][336]

European Union:: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom.[47] Hamas has been included in the black list of EU-designated terrorists groups since 2003[8]

Israel: The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Hamas maintains a terrorist infrastructure in Gaza and the West Bank, and acts to carry out terrorist attacks in the territories and Israel."[337]

Japan: Stated in 2005 that it had frozen the assets of "terrorist organizations, including... Hamas."[12][338]

Jordan: Banned Hamas in 1999[339]

United Kingdom: Hamas as a whole was designated a terrorist organization by the UK Government in 2003 with no distinction made between its military and non-military wings.[345]

United States: Lists Hamas as a "Foreign Terrorist Organization"[346]

====================

"_A small group of self-appointed assholes_"?

Including your own country?

Noted.

Now that we know what side you're *TRULY* on...

The _United States of America _equates, in your mind, as one of several _self-appointed assholes_?

And you're an American?

Wow... heckuva revelation... and one that will color my dealings with you from this moment forward...


----------



## montelatici

The U.S. decides who terrorists are and its puppets follow suit. The Muhajedin were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Soviet Union and then became terrorists when they began fighting the U.S. 

The Contras, most murderous terrorist group in Latin America, were freedom fighters according to the U.S.  If you can't figure out what a bunch of bullshit this labeling is, you are dimwitted.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> The U.S. decides who terrorists are and its puppets follow suit. The Muhajedin were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Soviet Union and then became terrorists when they began fighting the U.S.
> 
> The Contras, most murderous terrorist group in Latin America, were freedom fighters according to the U.S.  If you can't figure out what a bunch of bullshit this labeling is, you are dimwitted.


The US does, indeed, decide for itself, whom to label as Terrorists, and whom not to.

If you are an American citizen, and you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it up with the State Department.

My failure to buy into your pro-Muslim/pro-Palestinian spin on this does not render me dimwitted.

I can, indeed, be dumb as a box-o-rox from time to time.

My dealings with you, and your propaganda, do not constitute one of those times.


----------



## montelatici

It is just not the U.S.  The Chinese label Tibetans as terrorists,  the Ukrainians label Russian-speakers as terrorists.  The Syrians label the rebels as terrorists.  The Spanish label the Basque separatists as terrorists.  The French labeled Algerian insurgents as terrorists.  The South Africans labeled the non-whites as terrorists.

Get the pattern? Truth and fact are not propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. decides who terrorists are and its puppets follow suit. The Muhajedin were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Soviet Union and then became terrorists when they began fighting the U.S.
> 
> The Contras, most murderous terrorist group in Latin America, were freedom fighters according to the U.S.  If you can't figure out what a bunch of bullshit this labeling is, you are dimwitted.
> 
> 
> 
> The US does, indeed, decide for itself, whom to label as Terrorists, and whom not to.
> 
> If you are an American citizen, and you have a problem with that, *I suggest you take it up with the State Department.
> *
> My failure to buy into your pro-Muslim/pro-Palestinian spin on this does not render me dimwitted.
> 
> I can, indeed, be dumb as a box-o-rox from time to time.
> 
> My dealings with you, and your propaganda, do not constitute one of those times.
Click to expand...


Have you ever talked to the State Department?

I have.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> The U.S. decides who terrorists are and its puppets follow suit. The Muhajedin were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Soviet Union and then became terrorists when they began fighting the U.S.
> 
> The Contras, most murderous terrorist group in Latin America, were freedom fighters according to the U.S.  If you can't figure out what a bunch of bullshit this labeling is, you are dimwitted.



you forget that they oppressed women and illegally took power in Afghanistan after the USSR left.




Not to mention the destruction of world heritage.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. decides who terrorists are and its puppets follow suit. The Muhajedin were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Soviet Union and then became terrorists when they began fighting the U.S.
> 
> The Contras, most murderous terrorist group in Latin America, were freedom fighters according to the U.S.  If you can't figure out what a bunch of bullshit this labeling is, you are dimwitted.
> 
> 
> 
> The US does, indeed, decide for itself, whom to label as Terrorists, and whom not to.
> 
> If you are an American citizen, and you have a problem with that, *I suggest you take it up with the State Department.
> *
> My failure to buy into your pro-Muslim/pro-Palestinian spin on this does not render me dimwitted.
> 
> I can, indeed, be dumb as a box-o-rox from time to time.
> 
> My dealings with you, and your propaganda, do not constitute one of those times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever talked to the State Department?
> 
> I have.
Click to expand...


One of my relatives works there; Most of the staff are very anti-Israel.


----------



## jillian

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. decides who terrorists are and its puppets follow suit. The Muhajedin were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Soviet Union and then became terrorists when they began fighting the U.S.
> 
> The Contras, most murderous terrorist group in Latin America, were freedom fighters according to the U.S.  If you can't figure out what a bunch of bullshit this labeling is, you are dimwitted.
> 
> 
> 
> The US does, indeed, decide for itself, whom to label as Terrorists, and whom not to.
> 
> If you are an American citizen, and you have a problem with that, *I suggest you take it up with the State Department.
> *
> My failure to buy into your pro-Muslim/pro-Palestinian spin on this does not render me dimwitted.
> 
> I can, indeed, be dumb as a box-o-rox from time to time.
> 
> My dealings with you, and your propaganda, do not constitute one of those times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever talked to the State Department?
> 
> I have.
Click to expand...


maybe .... but they certainly weren't listening to you at the time, 

*shrug*


----------



## montelatici

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US does, indeed, decide for itself, whom to label as Terrorists, and whom not to.
> 
> If you are an American citizen, and you have a problem with that, *I suggest you take it up with the State Department.
> *
> My failure to buy into your pro-Muslim/pro-Palestinian spin on this does not render me dimwitted.
> 
> I can, indeed, be dumb as a box-o-rox from time to time.
> 
> My dealings with you, and your propaganda, do not constitute one of those times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever talked to the State Department?
> 
> I have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of my relatives works there; Most of the staff are very anti-Israel.
Click to expand...


"One of my relatives works there; Most of the staff are very anti-Israel"

Being minimally even-handed is considered anti-Israel.  That's hilarious.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US does, indeed, decide for itself, whom to label as Terrorists, and whom not to.
> 
> If you are an American citizen, and you have a problem with that, *I suggest you take it up with the State Department.
> *
> My failure to buy into your pro-Muslim/pro-Palestinian spin on this does not render me dimwitted.
> 
> I can, indeed, be dumb as a box-o-rox from time to time.
> 
> My dealings with you, and your propaganda, do not constitute one of those times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever talked to the State Department?
> 
> I have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of my relatives works there; Most of the staff are very anti-Israel.
Click to expand...


I called to ask them why they were negotiating with someone who has no authority to make a deal instead of the elected government.

He asked me to hold on while he got the information. About twenty minutes later he got back on the phone and said: "Uhh, can I get back to you? We can't find Palestine."

They have every political party in Palestine listed as terrorists, but they don't know where it is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> The U.S. decides who terrorists are and its puppets follow suit. The Muhajedin were freedom fighters when they were fighting the Soviet Union and then became terrorists when they began fighting the U.S.
> 
> The Contras, most murderous terrorist group in Latin America, were freedom fighters according to the U.S.  If you can't figure out what a bunch of bullshit this labeling is, you are dimwitted.



The system will not allow me to give you a positive rep, so 

The criteria used for this name calling is anyone we do not like.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever talked to the State Department?
> 
> I have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of my relatives works there; Most of the staff are very anti-Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I called to ask them why they were negotiating with someone who has no authority to make a deal instead of the elected government.
> 
> He asked me to hold on while he got the information. About twenty minutes later he got back on the phone and said: "Uhh, can I get back to you? We can't find Palestine."
> 
> They have every political party in Palestine listed as terrorists, but they don't know where it is.
Click to expand...

You blew it, Tinmore. Should have asked the guy for a 1948 map.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many countries are there in the world?
> 
> How many have designated Hamas as terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9 leading countries have listed palestinian Hamas as terrorist plus EU,  four more will not have contact with hamas, three have listed it as not terrorist and most have no opinion.
> There are other groups that use the name hamas in other countries where they carry out their own terrorist activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
Click to expand...

So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?

  If you hate your own country that much in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.


----------



## MJB12741

Maybe Tinmore should go to a travel agent & ask for a ticket to --- Palestine.  Heh Heh!





Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of my relatives works there; Most of the staff are very anti-Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I called to ask them why they were negotiating with someone who has no authority to make a deal instead of the elected government.
> 
> He asked me to hold on while he got the information. About twenty minutes later he got back on the phone and said: "Uhh, can I get back to you? We can't find Palestine."
> 
> They have every political party in Palestine listed as terrorists, but they don't know where it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You blew it, Tinmore. Should have asked the guy for a 1948 map.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever talked to the State Department?
> 
> I have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of my relatives works there; Most of the staff are very anti-Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I called to ask them why they were negotiating with someone who has no authority to make a deal instead of the elected government.
> 
> He asked me to hold on while he got the information. About twenty minutes later he got back on the phone and said: "Uhh, can I get back to you? We can't find Palestine."
> 
> They have every political party in Palestine listed as terrorists, but they don't know where it is.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  Keep writing and calling Tinmore!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9 leading countries have listed palestinian Hamas as terrorist plus EU,  four more will not have contact with hamas, three have listed it as not terrorist and most have no opinion.
> There are other groups that use the name hamas in other countries where they carry out their own terrorist activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> * If you hate your own country that much *in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
Click to expand...


I love my country.

I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
> 
> 
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> * If you hate your own country that much *in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love my country.
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
Click to expand...


So move to Canada..


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
> 
> 
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> * If you hate your own country that much *in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love my country.
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and you're one of them.  YOUR COUNTRY has labeled Hamas as a terrorist organization, and RIGHTLY SO.   Accept it, or give up your citizenship and leave.


----------



## MJB12741

I too am not happy about radical Muslims here on our American soil.






P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
> 
> 
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> * If you hate your own country that much *in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love my country.
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## MJB12741

Just like Tinmore, I too hate the "assholes" who are determined to destroy our country.  At least this time justice prevailed for peace loving Americans.



Funny priceless picture, American flag burner




P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
> 
> 
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> * If you hate your own country that much *in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love my country.
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> * If you hate your own country that much *in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love my country.
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So move to Canada..
Click to expand...


It is they who should move and Canada is too good for them.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have a small group of self appointed assholes who pretend to be the "international community."
> 
> 
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> If you hate your own country that much in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I love my country.*
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
Click to expand...

Incredible...

As in, lacking credibility - given your ongoing defense of Hamas, and your labeling of all the countries whom condemn their terrorism as '_self-appointed assholes_' - including the United States...

Knocking your own country in order to try (_and fail_) to bolster the case for Hamas...


----------



## Franticfrank

this might interest you guys:

? U.S. public opinion on Israel and the Palestinian Authority 2000-2012 | Survey


----------



## Beelzebub

That IS interesting.

I would like to see it taken forward to now.


However, I didn't see how the question was asked, what was the sample group, were methods consistent across each measure.  Sadly, it is easy to get a trend line or a survey to give just the result that you wanted, so these factors need to be known.


----------



## MJB12741

Good point.  He says he loves our country & yet supports Muslim terrorists who are determined to destroy America.  






Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you call your own country the USA, all of Europe including the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia...self appointed assholes?
> 
> If you hate your own country that much in favor of these Palestinian terrorist animals, why don't you just give up your citizenship and leave?  Nobody's stopping you, you know, and don't let the door hit your behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I love my country.*
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Incredible...
> 
> As in, lacking credibility - given your ongoing defense of Hamas, and your labeling of all the countries whom condemn their terrorism as '_self-appointed assholes_' - including the United States...
> 
> Knocking your own country in order to try (_and fail_) to bolster the case for Hamas...
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante

Of Course the muslim enablers in this corrupt regime have been a big help!


----------



## Roudy

MJB12741 said:


> Good point.  He says he loves our country & yet supports Muslim terrorists who are determined to destroy America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I love my country.*
> 
> I just hate the assholes who are destroying it.
> 
> 
> 
> Incredible...
> 
> As in, lacking credibility - given your ongoing defense of Hamas, and your labeling of all the countries whom condemn their terrorism as '_self-appointed assholes_' - including the United States...
> 
> Knocking your own country in order to try (_and fail_) to bolster the case for Hamas...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yeah!  For America to end, it needs more "patriots" like Tinmore!!  Ha ha ha.


----------



## MJB12741

Oh well.  At least he's here entertaining us rather than out with his Muslim terrorist friends in their efforts to kill us Americans & bring our country down.






Roudy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  He says he loves our country & yet supports Muslim terrorists who are determined to destroy America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incredible...
> 
> As in, lacking credibility - given your ongoing defense of Hamas, and your labeling of all the countries whom condemn their terrorism as '_self-appointed assholes_' - including the United States...
> 
> Knocking your own country in order to try (_and fail_) to bolster the case for Hamas...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah!  For America to end, it needs more "patriots" like Tinmore!!  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

Franticfrank said:


> this might interest you guys:
> 
> ? U.S. public opinion on Israel and the Palestinian Authority 2000-2012 | Survey


Interesting but Tinmore will demand a recount and a 1948 map.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Beelzebub said:


> That IS interesting.
> 
> I would like to see it taken forward to now.
> 
> 
> However, I didn't see how the question was asked, what was the sample group, were methods consistent across each measure.  Sadly, it is easy to get a trend line or a survey to give just the result that you wanted, so these factors need to be known.



Look up the Gallup poll then.    Americans' Sympathies for Israel Match All-Time High


----------



## Beelzebub

Noting wrong with a recount.  

Though I suspect it would bring the same results.
America is just a little slow on the uptake.  It is utterly confused by Israeli propaganda, and cannot let go of the idea that if Israel says its represents all Jews, then it must be telling the truth.

And sadly, the US is just a bit too tied in to letting the winners take all, and the losers go to the wall.
Although Mid West America is probably the most civilised and pleasant part of the world to visit, with legendary stories of courtesy and hospitality, they have a fixation with Israel, believing it to be the sheriff of Dodge City, when it is actually the Railroad Company.


----------



## Roudy

Beelzebub said:


> Noting wrong with a recount.
> 
> Though I suspect it would bring the same results.
> America is just a little slow on the uptake.  It is utterly confused by Israeli propaganda, and cannot let go of the idea that if Israel says its represents all Jews, then it must be telling the truth.
> 
> And sadly, the US is just a bit too tied in to letting the winners take all, and the losers go to the wall.
> Although Mid West America is probably the most civilised and pleasant part of the world to visit, with legendary stories of courtesy and hospitality, they have a fixation with Israel, believing it to be the sheriff of Dodge City, when it is actually the Railroad Company.


You act like you know what you're talking about but really, you don't. 

All America, it's people, administrations, and both houses of government has supported Israel as an ally and will continue to do so.  And things are definitely not going to change, now that Islam and and it's followers have declared war on America and everything the West stands for.


----------



## Kondor3

Roudy said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Noting wrong with a recount.
> 
> Though I suspect it would bring the same results.
> America is just a little slow on the uptake.  It is utterly confused by Israeli propaganda, and cannot let go of the idea that if Israel says its represents all Jews, then it must be telling the truth.
> 
> And sadly, the US is just a bit too tied in to letting the winners take all, and the losers go to the wall.
> Although Mid West America is probably the most civilised and pleasant part of the world to visit, with legendary stories of courtesy and hospitality, they have a fixation with Israel, believing it to be the sheriff of Dodge City, when it is actually the Railroad Company.
> 
> 
> 
> *You act like you know what you're talking about* but really, you don't.
> 
> All America, it's people, administrations, and both houses of government has supported Israel as an ally and will continue to do so.  And things are definitely not going to change, now that Islam and and it's followers have declared war on America and everything the West stands for.
Click to expand...

Au contraire...

It knows what it's talking about...

Because it's a propaganda sock...

It's talking 'smack', mind you...

But it knows 'smack', I assure you...


----------



## Beelzebub

Just keep hugging each other guys.
The world will change faster than you know.


----------



## Kondor3

Beelzebub said:


> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.


Yes, yes, yes, very nice, I'm sure... thank you for playing.


----------



## toastman

Beelzebub said:


> Noting wrong with a recount.
> 
> Though I suspect it would bring the same results.
> America is just a little slow on the uptake.  It is utterly confused by Israeli propaganda, and cannot let go of the idea that if Israel says its represents all Jews, then it must be telling the truth.
> 
> And sadly, the US is just a bit too tied in to letting the winners take all, and the losers go to the wall.
> Although Mid West America is probably the most civilised and pleasant part of the world to visit, with legendary stories of courtesy and hospitality, they have a fixation with Israel, believing it to be the sheriff of Dodge City, when it is actually the Railroad Company.



Yes, I'm sure that's the reason most Americans support Israel 

You pro Palis will always find an excuse for stuff like this.

Lets loom at the facts: Most America s support Israel. 
Can't deal with it? Too bad.....


----------



## toastman

Roudy said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Noting wrong with a recount.
> 
> Though I suspect it would bring the same results.
> America is just a little slow on the uptake.  It is utterly confused by Israeli propaganda, and cannot let go of the idea that if Israel says its represents all Jews, then it must be telling the truth.
> 
> And sadly, the US is just a bit too tied in to letting the winners take all, and the losers go to the wall.
> Although Mid West America is probably the most civilised and pleasant part of the world to visit, with legendary stories of courtesy and hospitality, they have a fixation with Israel, believing it to be the sheriff of Dodge City, when it is actually the Railroad Company.
> 
> 
> 
> You act like you know what you're talking about but really, you don't.
> 
> All America, it's people, administrations, and both houses of government has supported Israel as an ally and will continue to do so.  And things are definitely not going to change, now that Islam and and it's followers have declared war on America and everything the West stands for.
Click to expand...


Anti Zionists are allergic to the truth. There's nothing we can really do about it


----------



## toastman

Beelzebub said:


> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.



The more things change, the more they stay the same...


----------



## Roudy

Beelzebub said:


> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.


And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
Click to expand...


Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.


----------



## JakeStarkey

*Who Are The Palestinians?*

All derivative analogies such as yours, montelatici, eventually fall apart and fail.

Jews were not a colonial introduction to the region, as they have always over 3,500 years live there.

Some Arabs may trace roots back to the beginning of the common era, but have routinely been trounced and bounced by their betters.

Nothing new is going on.


----------



## MJB12741

No need to be concerned about the indigenous population & culture.  The Jews are there to stay no matter what the Palestinian squatters come up with to kill them & uproot them.






montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> No need to be concerned about the indigenous population & culture.  The Jews are there to stay no matter what the Palestinian squatters come up with to kill them & uproot them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


That's what the Boers/Afrikaners said too.  But if you think the Christians and Muslims of Palestine and Israel will just go poof and disappear, well there you go.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
Click to expand...


'European Colonialism'

Monty, you are officially an expert in Palestinian propaganda !!!


----------



## Hossfly

JakeStarkey said:


> *Who Are The Palestinians?*
> 
> All derivative analogies such as yours, montelatici, eventually fall apart and fail.
> 
> Jews were not a colonial introduction to the region, as they have always over 3,500 years live there.
> 
> Some Arabs may trace roots back to the beginning of the common era, but have routinely been trounced and bounced by their betters.
> 
> Nothing new is going on.


You have to realize [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION] that Montelatici and the brotherhood have their history books and we have ours. Theirs happen to be twice as big and twice as heavy. That puts them in the catbird seat.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
Click to expand...

It's the Arab colonialists that will loose the land they invaded and occupied.  The writing is in ze vall. 

What is Islam, other than another name for Arab imperialism and nationalism, forced down the throats of peoples and countries at the point of a sword?  One quick review at the history of Islam and Arabs and that's exactly what it is. 

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need to be concerned about the indigenous population & culture.  The Jews are there to stay no matter what the Palestinian squatters come up with to kill them & uproot them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what the Boers/Afrikaners said too.  But if you think the Christians and Muslims of Palestine and Israel will just go poof and disappear, well there you go.
Click to expand...

Why did the Palestinian Muslims massacre and terrorize the Christians of Lebanon in order to help other Muslims make the Christians go poof?

This is what the Palestinian Muslim animals are capable of. 

http://www.lebaneseforces.com/blastfromthepast002.asp

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=NpwYo8kFZ0g"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=NpwYo8kFZ0g[/ame]


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the Arab colonialists that will loose the land they invaded and occupied.  The writing is in ze vall.
> 
> What is Islam, other than another name for Arab imperialism and nationalism, forced down the throats of peoples and countries at the point of a sword?  One quick review at the history of Islam and Arabs and that's exactly what it is.
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
Click to expand...


The Palestinians were living in the area for two thousand years or so.  How can they be considered colonists?  The Europeans that settled the area recentl are, on the other hand, certainly colonists


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'European Colonialism'
> 
> Monty, you are officially an expert in Palestinian propaganda !!!
Click to expand...

He just likes to repeat lies and false propaganda over and over and over. Maybe the 1000th time will make a difference.


----------



## JakeStarkey

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Arab colonialists that will loose the land they invaded and occupied.  The writing is in ze vall.
> 
> What is Islam, other than another name for Arab imperialism and nationalism, forced down the throats of peoples and countries at the point of a sword?  One quick review at the history of Islam and Arabs and that's exactly what it is.
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were living in the area for two thousand years or so.  How can they be considered colonists?  The Europeans that settled the area recentl are, on the other hand, certainly colonists
Click to expand...


The French, the British, the Italians were not the Jews, who were returning to their ancestral homeland.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The Saudi princes were fun to train at the Airborne School, their parties were outrageous, but not one of them inspired any confidence in their ability to critically think and be objective.

Hossfly is right on, don't worry about what Arabs think, just do what needs to be done.


----------



## Vigilante

*We are ruled by our enemies.*


----------



## Hossfly

Vigilante said:


> *We are ruled by our enemies.*


"Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead".
~~Admiral Farragut


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Arab colonialists that will loose the land they invaded and occupied.  The writing is in ze vall.
> 
> What is Islam, other than another name for Arab imperialism and nationalism, forced down the throats of peoples and countries at the point of a sword?  One quick review at the history of Islam and Arabs and that's exactly what it is.
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were living in the area for two thousand years or so.  How can they be considered colonists?  The Europeans that settled the area recentl are, on the other hand, certainly colonists
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  If that is so then how come the population of Jerusalem was majority Jewish from the mid 1800's to early 1900's?  Arab never considered themselves "Palestinians" until the mid 60's and are recent 19th and 20th century invaders.  How is that that these people who morons like you claim to be "Palestinian" for over 2000 years, never thought of themselves as such until the mid 60's?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> *We are ruled by our enemies.*


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *We are ruled by our enemies.*
Click to expand...


Yes, we know all about the traitor and her closest staff!


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *We are ruled by our enemies.*
Click to expand...

Speaking of flags, Jordan is Palestine. And the flags prove it.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just keep hugging each other guys.
> The world will change faster than you know.
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
Click to expand...


Africa is highly tribal and there are multitude of religions within them.  They constantly fight over animals, land, or for what ever excuse they can think of.
As much as you rant on about colonialism, It brought the modern world, it's medicine and technology and created nations out of africa.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


>


----------



## MJB12741

The problem for Palestinians is that Jordan refuses them any right of return.  So now the Palestinians want to do to Israel what they did to Jordan to get Palestinians massacred & others left as refugees.


Jordan is Palestine |







Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *We are ruled by our enemies.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of flags, Jordan is Palestine. And the flags prove it.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

TURKEY






TUNISIA


----------



## MJB12741

Are you really such an idiot?  You see Monte, like Turkey, Tunisia was also part of the Ottoman Empire.   Like Jordan is Palestine as displayd by their flags.  Get it yet?




montelatici said:


> TURKEY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TUNISIA


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you think this "change" will somehow be beneficial to Palestinians and Islamists, and disadvantageous to Israel, based on what trend or fact?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Africa is highly tribal and there are multitude of religions within them.  They constantly fight over animals, land, or for what ever excuse they can think of.
> As much as you rant on about colonialism, It brought the modern world, it's medicine and technology and created nations out of africa.
Click to expand...


So, we have a supporter of colonialism that also supports Israel, who would have thought.


----------



## montelatici

Flag of Monaco






Flag of Indonesia


----------



## montelatici

Flag of Italy (Naval)






Flag of Mexico


----------



## MJB12741

You certainly did a fine job of showing us that even by their flags, Jordan is Palestine.  Look at the bright side.  Even those Zionists gotta love you for that.





montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Africa is highly tribal and there are multitude of religions within them.  They constantly fight over animals, land, or for what ever excuse they can think of.
> As much as you rant on about colonialism, It brought the modern world, it's medicine and technology and created nations out of africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, we have a supporter of colonialism that also supports Israel, who would have thought.
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the fact is that in every case of European colonialism, if the indigenous population and culture is not eliminated and the indigenous population is surrounded by a large population of the same ethnic/religious group, the Europeans eventually get their asses kicked out or agree to a democratic secular state, as in South Africa or get kicked out as in Rhodesia, Algeria, Libya etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Africa is highly tribal and there are multitude of religions within them.  They constantly fight over animals, land, or for what ever excuse they can think of.
> As much as you rant on about colonialism, It brought the modern world, it's medicine and technology and created nations out of africa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, we have a supporter of colonialism that also supports Israel, who would have thought.
Click to expand...


It is simply a historical fact.

Islam too was conquest and colonization.  It too help advance knowledge and science till the 1200's.  Why are you not ranting on them the way you do of europeans/the west??  Mongols, chinese, russians, every major empire has expanded.  This is why the world maps are what they are.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Africa is highly tribal and there are multitude of religions within them.  They constantly fight over animals, land, or for what ever excuse they can think of.
> As much as you rant on about colonialism, It brought the modern world, it's medicine and technology and created nations out of africa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, we have a supporter of colonialism that also supports Israel, who would have thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is simply a historical fact.
> 
> Islam too was conquest and colonization.  It too help advance knowledge and science till the 1200's.  Why are you not ranting on them the way you do of europeans/the west??  Mongols, chinese, russians, every major empire has expanded.  This is why the world maps are what they are.
Click to expand...


Why should I rant on them on this forum, would it be germane?  It is simple historical fact that European colonialism brought about one of the most despicable periods of slave trading ever as well as the destruction of cultures and whole populations of people. So, admiring that ideology places you in a particular position as a person.

Also, historically speaking, I am glad that Charles Martell won at Tours and the Venetians at Lepanto.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, we have a supporter of colonialism that also supports Israel, who would have thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is simply a historical fact.
> 
> Islam too was conquest and colonization.  It too help advance knowledge and science till the 1200's.  Why are you not ranting on them the way you do of europeans/the west??  Mongols, chinese, russians, every major empire has expanded.  This is why the world maps are what they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I rant on them on this forum, would it be germane?  It is simple historical fact that European colonialism brought about one of the most despicable periods of slave trading ever as well as the destruction of cultures and whole populations of people. So, admiring that ideology places you in a particular position as a person.
> 
> Also, historically speaking, I am glad that Charles Martell won at Tours and the Venetians at Lepanto.
Click to expand...


Other africans and arabs began the slave trade, as you know it.  Slavery goes back to the first civilization.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is simply a historical fact.
> 
> Islam too was conquest and colonization.  It too help advance knowledge and science till the 1200's.  Why are you not ranting on them the way you do of europeans/the west??  Mongols, chinese, russians, every major empire has expanded.  This is why the world maps are what they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I rant on them on this forum, would it be germane?  It is simple historical fact that European colonialism brought about one of the most despicable periods of slave trading ever as well as the destruction of cultures and whole populations of people. So, admiring that ideology places you in a particular position as a person.
> 
> Also, historically speaking, I am glad that Charles Martell won at Tours and the Venetians at Lepanto.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Other africans and arabs began the slave trade, as you know it.  Slavery goes back to the first civilization.
Click to expand...


The demand came from the Europeans, if you want to just ignore the slave based economies of the Americas go ahead, but even on this board people will agree with me on this issue.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I rant on them on this forum, would it be germane?  It is simple historical fact that European colonialism brought about one of the most despicable periods of slave trading ever as well as the destruction of cultures and whole populations of people. So, admiring that ideology places you in a particular position as a person.
> 
> Also, historically speaking, I am glad that Charles Martell won at Tours and the Venetians at Lepanto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other africans and arabs began the slave trade, as you know it.  Slavery goes back to the first civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The demand came from the Europeans, if you want to just ignore the slave based economies of the Americas go ahead, but even on this board people will agree with me on this issue.
Click to expand...


most civilizations are based on slavery.  Arabs have been selling black slaves in Africa since the beginning of the 8th C.  Pope authorized the taking of non-Christians as slaves before Columbus found the new world.  Saudi did not officially renounce slavery till 1962, but still practices it.  Countries in Africa are still involved in slavery and slave trade.  Eastern Europe is trading sex slaves around the world.


----------



## montelatici

Well, then I guess slavery is ok with you. Not with me.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Well, then I guess slavery is ok with you. Not with me.



Why do you always put words in peoples mouths??


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> ...historically speaking, I am glad that Charles Martell won at Tours and the Venetians at Lepanto.


One of the few things that we will ever agree upon.

Ditto.

Otherwise, Europe would have turned out to be be a Third-World shit-hole like most of the domains of Islam...

_There_ goes the neighborhood...

Whew...

Two close calls, spaced nearly a millennium apart...


----------



## aris2chat

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, then I guess slavery is ok with you. Not with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always put words in peoples mouths??
Click to expand...


it amuses monty and draws attention.

Like the park pigeons, it is hard not to want to feed them when they come up to you, till they fly in your face, mess up your hair and shit on your dry clean only outfit.  Then they are good only as dinner.


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, then I guess slavery is ok with you. Not with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always put words in peoples mouths??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it amuses monty and draws attention.
> 
> Like the park pigeons, it is hard not to want to feed them when they come up to you, till they fly in your face, mess up your hair and shit on your dry clean only outfit.  Then they are good only as dinner.
Click to expand...


You are justifying colonialism, indicating that it is a good thing.  Colonialism was part and parcel with slavery in the Americas.  Ok, what words did I put in your mouth?


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always put words in peoples mouths??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it amuses monty and draws attention.
> 
> Like the park pigeons, it is hard not to want to feed them when they come up to you, till they fly in your face, mess up your hair and shit on your dry clean only outfit.  Then they are good only as dinner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are justifying colonialism, indicating that it is a good thing.  Colonialism was part and parcel with slavery in the Americas.  Ok, what words did I put in your mouth?
Click to expand...

It is true that European colonialism was responsible for slavery in the Americas.

This manifested, in part, by the Euro (mostly Spanish) enslavement of natives in Central and South America.

This manifested, in much larger part, by being tempted-by and corrupted-by and then gradually buying into and taking advantage of the centuries-old, pre-built, ready-to-hand Arab (Muslim) Slave Dealer Network lining the Western and Northern African perimeter regions, in which Muslims had been capturing Black Africans for centuries, and paying Blacks to sortie and capture other Blacks, to sell to the Muslim Slave Trader scum.

Compared to the Arab-Muslim Slave Network of those regions, the Euros were pikers and amateurs, despite the volumes in later decades.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> it amuses monty and draws attention.
> 
> Like the park pigeons, it is hard not to want to feed them when they come up to you, till they fly in your face, mess up your hair and shit on your dry clean only outfit.  Then they are good only as dinner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are justifying colonialism, indicating that it is a good thing.  Colonialism was part and parcel with slavery in the Americas.  Ok, what words did I put in your mouth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that European colonialism was responsible for slavery in the Americas.
> 
> This manifested, in part, by the Euro (mostly Spanish) enslavement of natives in Central and South America.
> 
> This manifested, in much larger part, by being tempted-by and corrupted-by and then gradually buying into and taking advantage of the centuries-old, pre-built, ready-to-hand Arab (Muslim) Slave Dealer Network lining the Western and Northern African perimeter regions, in which Muslims had been capturing Black Africans for centuries, and paying Blacks to sortie and capture other Blacks, to sell to the Muslim Slave Trader scum.
> 
> Compared to the Arab-Muslim Slave Network of those regions, the Euros were pikers and amateurs, despite the volumes in later decades.
Click to expand...


As I recall from high school history classes, at the time of the Civil War 60% of the slaves in the Americas were in the United States.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are justifying colonialism, indicating that it is a good thing.  Colonialism was part and parcel with slavery in the Americas.  Ok, what words did I put in your mouth?
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that European colonialism was responsible for slavery in the Americas.
> 
> This manifested, in part, by the Euro (mostly Spanish) enslavement of natives in Central and South America.
> 
> This manifested, in much larger part, by being tempted-by and corrupted-by and then gradually buying into and taking advantage of the centuries-old, pre-built, ready-to-hand Arab (Muslim) Slave Dealer Network lining the Western and Northern African perimeter regions, in which Muslims had been capturing Black Africans for centuries, and paying Blacks to sortie and capture other Blacks, to sell to the Muslim Slave Trader scum.
> 
> Compared to the Arab-Muslim Slave Network of those regions, the Euros were pikers and amateurs, despite the volumes in later decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I recall from high school history classes, at the time of the Civil War 60% of the slaves in the Americas were in the United States.
Click to expand...


I have no clue and would not be overly surprised as we were (I believe) late in Abolishing vs many of the other New World countries who had done so earlier after their own breaks with their Old World motherships,.

Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app


----------



## MJB12741

Consider the facts.  The slave trade was started by Muslims.


The Origins of the Slave Trade


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> Consider the facts.  The slave trade was started by Muslims.
> 
> 
> The Origins of the Slave Trade



I see, so the slave trade in ancient Greece or Rome was started by Muslims?  Oh wait, there were no Muslims in those days.  Could you possibly be mistaken?


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Consider the facts.  The slave trade was started by Muslims.
> 
> 
> The Origins of the Slave Trade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so the slave trade in ancient Greece or Rome was started by Muslims?  Oh wait, there were no Muslims in those days.  Could you possibly be mistaken?
Click to expand...

Correction:

The slave-trade iteration which was operative along the African Coast and the Mediterranean Basin during the opening years of the European Colonial Era and which fed slave to European Colonialists for 250-300 years after that launch, was the preexisting Arab-Muslim Slave Trade Network of that region, which existed for several centuries prior to advent of European Colonialism, and which had been enslaving Black Africans long before Europe reorganized itself into the nation-states of the modern era, and long before Europe ventured out into the Atlantic in an organized fashion.


----------



## montelatici

So, the terrible Muslims are the cause of slavery in the New World, the Europeans are poor innocents.  And the Jews are saints. Oh wait, the Jews held slaves too.  What do we make of this? Are the Muslims still the only bad guys?


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> So, the terrible Muslims are the cause of slavery in the New World, the Europeans are poor innocents.  And the Jews are saints. Oh wait, the Jews held slaves too.  What do we make of this? Are the Muslims still the only bad guys?


Nope.

But within the framework of Europe, the Mediterranean Basin, and Coastal Africa, at the advent of the European Colonial Era, the Arab-Muslim Slave Trader Network was the only pre-built, pre-existing, ready-to-hand, large-scale Slaver Network still on its feet and ready to start pimping blacks to the Johnny-Come-Lately Euros.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the terrible Muslims are the cause of slavery in the New World, the Europeans are poor innocents.  And the Jews are saints. Oh wait, the Jews held slaves too.  What do we make of this? Are the Muslims still the only bad guys?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> But within the framework of Europe, the Mediterranean Basin, and Coastal Africa, at the advent of the European Colonial Era, the Arab-Muslim Slave Trader Network was the only pre-built, pre-existing, ready-to-hand, large-scale Slaver Network still on its feet and ready to start pimping blacks to the Johnny-Come-Lately Euros.
Click to expand...


Romans were not Europeans?


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the terrible Muslims are the cause of slavery in the New World, the Europeans are poor innocents.  And the Jews are saints. Oh wait, the Jews held slaves too.  What do we make of this? Are the Muslims still the only bad guys?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> But within the framework of Europe, the Mediterranean Basin, and Coastal Africa, at the advent of the European Colonial Era, the Arab-Muslim Slave Trader Network was the only pre-built, pre-existing, ready-to-hand, large-scale Slaver Network still on its feet and ready to start pimping blacks to the Johnny-Come-Lately Euros.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Romans were not Europeans?
Click to expand...

The Roman slave trade had been dead for 1000 years (1500 A.D. - 500 A.D.) by the advent of European Colonialism.

The challenge here is not to identify the first Slavers in history.

The challenge here is to identify the Source for the Euro-Colonial brand of slavery.

It was not Euros or Christians with a centuries-old Slaver Network on the African coasts (north and west).

It was Arab-Muslims and Berber-Muslims and even Black African Muslims, doing the catching and transporting and warehousing and trading.

The Euros were merely the latest and most profitable Buyer that those ancient Muslim Slaver Networks found to feed upon, in selling large volumes of their age-old prey... hapless Black Africans.


----------



## montelatici

The Roman slave trade had been dead for 1000 years (1500 A.D. - 500 A.D.)

Actually no, as usual I have to correct you.  The Roman Empire ended with the conquest of Constantinople in 1453.  And, the Romans (Byzantine is a later designation) still had slaves.  The Muslims learned the trade (not a pun) from the Romans.

And, just to be clear, all of North Africa, at the time of the European slave trade, was part of the Ottoman Empire.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> The Roman slave trade had been dead for 1000 years (1500 A.D. - 500 A.D.)
> 
> Actually no, as usual I have to correct you.  The Roman Empire ended with the conquest of Constantinople in 1453.  And, the Romans (Byzantine is a later designation) still had slaves.  The Muslims learned the trade (not a pun) from the Romans.
> 
> And, just to be clear, all of North Africa, at the time of the European slave trade, was part of the Ottoman Empire.


I cannot believe that you are splitting hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire - focused upon nominalism rather than realism - in a lame attempt to salvage your position in the matter.

Noted.

Rejected.

As to your assertion that the Muslims of the Mediterranean Basin and the Saudi Peninsula and the Middle East (including the Turkic peoples and the Persians, et al) and the West African coast all learned the Slave Trade from the Romans or Byzantines, directly or second-hand through the Ottomans...

I don't believe it for a moment...

Slavery existed in the Arabian Peninsula and Egypt and much of the rest of the North African coast (including early Carthage) while Rome was still a collection of mud-huts along the Tiber and the Etruscans were running things...

If you have anything substantive to serve-up to the contrary, then have at it, but, in light of your rather embarrassing and unworthy splitting of hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire, I'm not expecting much.


----------



## Indeependent

Genesis 9 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

Apparently, Servitude appears to hearken back quite a bit in time.
I wouldn't doubt that crossing the line from Servitude to Slavery was one of the reasons for the flood.

BTW, Talmudic Servitude is nowhere near Slavery.


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Roman slave trade had been dead for 1000 years (1500 A.D. - 500 A.D.)
> 
> Actually no, as usual I have to correct you.  The Roman Empire ended with the conquest of Constantinople in 1453.  And, the Romans (Byzantine is a later designation) still had slaves.  The Muslims learned the trade (not a pun) from the Romans.
> 
> And, just to be clear, all of North Africa, at the time of the European slave trade, was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot believe that you are splitting hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire in a lame attempt to salvage your position in the matter.
> 
> Noted.
> 
> Rejected.
> 
> As to your assertion that the Muslims of the Mediterranean Basin and the Saudi Peninsula and the Middle East (including the Turkic peoples and the Persians, et al) and the West African coast all learned the Slave Trade from the Romans or Byzantines...
> 
> I don't believe it for a moment...
> 
> Slavery existed in the Arabian Peninsula and Egypt and much of the rest of the North African coast (including early Carthage) while Rome was still a collection of mud-huts alnog the Tiber and the Etruscans were running things...
> 
> If you have anything substantive to serve-up to the contrary, then have at it, but, in light of your rather embarrassing and unworthy splitting of hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire, I'm not expecting much.
Click to expand...


So, in your opinion, the evil of slavery was established by the evil Arabs even before there were any Arabs outside of the Arabian desert.  If it is the way you cope having to defend the indefensible, well, I understand.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Roman slave trade had been dead for 1000 years (1500 A.D. - 500 A.D.)
> 
> Actually no, as usual I have to correct you.  The Roman Empire ended with the conquest of Constantinople in 1453.  And, the Romans (Byzantine is a later designation) still had slaves.  The Muslims learned the trade (not a pun) from the Romans.
> 
> And, just to be clear, all of North Africa, at the time of the European slave trade, was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot believe that you are splitting hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire in a lame attempt to salvage your position in the matter.
> 
> Noted.
> 
> Rejected.
> 
> As to your assertion that the Muslims of the Mediterranean Basin and the Saudi Peninsula and the Middle East (including the Turkic peoples and the Persians, et al) and the West African coast all learned the Slave Trade from the Romans or Byzantines...
> 
> I don't believe it for a moment...
> 
> Slavery existed in the Arabian Peninsula and Egypt and much of the rest of the North African coast (including early Carthage) while Rome was still a collection of mud-huts alnog the Tiber and the Etruscans were running things...
> 
> If you have anything substantive to serve-up to the contrary, then have at it, but, in light of your rather embarrassing and unworthy splitting of hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire, I'm not expecting much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, in your opinion, the evil of slavery was established by the evil Arabs even before there were any Arabs outside of the Arabian desert.  If it is the way you cope having to defend the indefensible, well, I understand.
Click to expand...

That, mine good colleague, is the lamest attempt I've seen at redirection and face-saving since 5th-Grade Debate Club. That is neither what I said nor what I was thinking nor even implying for the consideration of others.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Roman slave trade had been dead for 1000 years (1500 A.D. - 500 A.D.)
> 
> Actually no, as usual I have to correct you.  The Roman Empire ended with the conquest of Constantinople in 1453.  And, the Romans (Byzantine is a later designation) still had slaves.  The Muslims learned the trade (not a pun) from the Romans.
> 
> And, just to be clear, all of North Africa, at the time of the European slave trade, was part of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot believe that you are splitting hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire in a lame attempt to salvage your position in the matter.
> 
> Noted.
> 
> Rejected.
> 
> As to your assertion that the Muslims of the Mediterranean Basin and the Saudi Peninsula and the Middle East (including the Turkic peoples and the Persians, et al) and the West African coast all learned the Slave Trade from the Romans or Byzantines...
> 
> I don't believe it for a moment...
> 
> Slavery existed in the Arabian Peninsula and Egypt and much of the rest of the North African coast (including early Carthage) while Rome was still a collection of mud-huts alnog the Tiber and the Etruscans were running things...
> 
> If you have anything substantive to serve-up to the contrary, then have at it, but, in light of your rather embarrassing and unworthy splitting of hairs regarding the nomenclature of the Byzantine Empire, I'm not expecting much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, in your opinion, the evil of slavery was established by the evil Arabs even before there were any Arabs outside of the Arabian desert.  If it is the way you cope having to defend the indefensible, well, I understand.
Click to expand...

Arabs / Muslims came before, and were much worse than Europeans when it came to slavery.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Roudy

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zM_MzkLKPY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zM_MzkLKPY[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Why do you always put words in peoples mouths??


Because they taste great, are a little chewy and have a nice Mediterranean flavor to them?


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


>


Fuck Israel!

They are no Palestinian's, that's for sure.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israel!
> 
> They are no Palestinian's, that's for sure.
Click to expand...


Fuck Palestine!

Oh wait, Palestine doesn't exist. My bad.


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israel!
> 
> They are no Palestinian's, that's for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fuck Palestine!
> 
> Oh wait, Palestine doesn't exist. My bad.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israel!
> 
> They are no Palestinian's, that's for sure.
Click to expand...


You're right,, only the fucking demented muslim dogs put HOMICIDE VESTS on their children to blow themselves up and kill Christian and Jews.... But I wouldn't expect a muslim to even acknowledge what everyone knows!


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Consider the facts.  The slave trade was started by Muslims.
> 
> 
> The Origins of the Slave Trade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see, so the slave trade in ancient Greece or Rome was started by Muslims?  Oh wait, there were no Muslims in those days.  Could you possibly be mistaken?
Click to expand...


Arabs traders were traveling the deserts trading slaves, spice, salt, exotic animals, what ever they could transport.  From yemen to iran and across northern africa the caravans existed long before mohammed and islam.

Slavery is part of history, it help build the foundations of the world we know.  Modern man and religious morality has evolved, but in some areas it still exists.  It may be dressed in different terms but it is still around.


----------



## MJB12741

While other religions have advanced in morals & ethics throughout history, Islam has regressed.  Oh how I admired the 9th century teachings of Avicenna, Averroes & the Mu'tazillites with their theology of reason.  And today we have Palestinians to carry on their faith.


----------



## Roudy

MJB12741 said:


> Are you really such an idiot?  You see Monte, like Turkey, Tunisia was also part of the Ottoman Empire.   Like Jordan is Palestine as displayd by their flags.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TURKEY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TUNISIA
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha ha! Poor MOHOMOD Latici, cannot explain why the two flags of Palestine and Jordan are virtually identical.  Other than the obvious, Jordan is Arab Palestine!


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israel!
> 
> They are no Palestinian's, that's for sure.
Click to expand...


My grandmama's ID said otherwise.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> My grandmama's ID said otherwise.


Your grandmother is a Palestinian?

Boy, would that be a game changer!


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> You're right,, only the fucking demented muslim dogs put HOMICIDE VESTS on their children to blow themselves up and kill Christian and Jews.... But I wouldn't expect a muslim to even acknowledge what everyone knows!


And I wouldn't expect anyone to wanna know, what you know.

It would be like pouring sugar into a gas tank.

Then again, if someone did wanna know what you know, it wouldn't take long to find out.

It's not like you fuckers have volumes of information proving your point, all you got are a half-dozen, lame ass rap lines, that you use over and over and over...

...like the kids and the vests and the blowing up...blah blah blah............it's the same lame ass shit over and over...

...and it all just means one thing.............you're a racist prick, who doesn't know what the fuck your talking about.  And judging from the number of times you repeat these dumbass mantra's, you don't even care to know.


----------



## Sally

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israel!
> 
> They are no Palestinian's, that's for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My grandmama's ID said otherwise.
Click to expand...


Of course the Jews were called Palestinians and had passports listing them as Palestinians.  In fact, those who manned the Palestine Exhibit at the World's Fair which was held in New York in 1940 were Jews, and the Jerusalem Post was originally called the Palestine Post, and I think we are all aware that the newspaper was started by Jews and is still run by Jews.


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right,, only the fucking demented muslim dogs put HOMICIDE VESTS on their children to blow themselves up and kill Christian and Jews.... But I wouldn't expect a muslim to even acknowledge what everyone knows!
> 
> 
> 
> And I wouldn't expect anyone to wanna know, what you know.
> 
> It would be like pouring sugar into a gas tank.
> 
> Then again, if someone did wanna know what you know, it wouldn't take long to find out.
> 
> It's not like you fuckers have volumes of information proving your point, all you got are a half-dozen, lame ass rap lines, that you use over and over and over...
> 
> ...like the kids and the vests and the blowing up...blah blah blah............it's the same lame ass shit over and over...
> 
> ...and it all just means one thing.............you're a racist prick, who doesn't know what the fuck your talking about. And judging from the number of times you repeat these dumbass mantra's, you don't even care to know.
Click to expand...


Well look, a muslim dog trying to protest about muslim dogs!


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


>


And you're such a joke, the only way you can debate, is with cartoon caricatures. 

And the best part is, whenever you do try to make your point verbally, you show the world the Palestinian's aren't the problem.  Or the animals.  Or the beasts.  Or the inhuman skum.  Your posts reflect everything you're trying to get people to think about the Palestinian's.

You say they're inhuman; yet everyone of your posts are completely void of humanity.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're such a joke, the only way you can debate, is with cartoon caricatures.
> 
> And the best part is, whenever you do try to make your point verbally, you show the world the Palestinian's aren't the problem.  Or the animals.  Or the beasts.  Or the inhuman skum.  Your posts reflect everything you're trying to get people to think about the Palestinian's.
> 
> You say they're inhuman; yet everyone of your posts are completely void of humanity.
Click to expand...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXg6UB9Qk0o]JULIE LONDON - CRY ME A RIVER - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're such a joke, the only way you can debate, is with cartoon caricatures.
> 
> And the best part is, whenever you do try to make your point verbally, you show the world the Palestinian's aren't the problem. Or the animals. Or the beasts. Or the inhuman skum. Your posts reflect everything you're trying to get people to think about the Palestinian's.
> 
> You say they're inhuman; yet everyone of your posts are completely void of humanity.
Click to expand...


Can you show us some JEWISH HOMICIDE KILLERS? Your people aren't animals, they are INHUMAN! We saw it with YOUR PEOPLE killing almost 3000 innocent Americans, how many more Americans must die before American's realize that the muslim animals, need to be eradicated from this planet?.... Another 3,000 and a few large buildings?....A small briefcase nuke, and a hundred thousand killed or maimed?...No, it YOUR scum, shit people that are the cold blooded killers, doing it in the name of a CULT LEADER, your people are BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES! 

 Where are the SUPPOSED muslims that PROTEST your killing instinct? They're AFRAID that they will be KILLED by their own, as you do with the different sects of muslims.... No, there is only one way to keep good people safe....dispatching ALL of your cult! To not do it, is committing suicide on our part!


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> Can you show us some JEWISH HOMICIDE KILLERS?


Off the top of my head, how about the whacko settlers that iced Rabin?



Vigilante said:


> Your people aren't animals, they are INHUMAN!


White, Irish Catholics are inhuman?

I'm sure there are a few little boys who would agree with you.



Vigilante said:


> We saw it with YOUR PEOPLE killing almost 3000 innocent Americans,


We were attacked by white, Irish Catholics on 9/11?

Well hey, anything can happen after you've had a few too many!



Vigilante said:


> how many more Americans must die before American's realize that the muslim animals, need to be eradicated from this planet?....


Is that your Final Solution?



Vigilante said:


> Another 3,000 and a few large buildings?....A small briefcase nuke,


Do you know how much a "briefcase nuke" would weigh?  About the same as a compact car.



Vigilante said:


> and a hundred thousand killed or maimed?...


Don't go there!  You fuckers have already passed that mark.



Vigilante said:


> No, it YOUR scum, shit people that are the cold blooded killers, doing it in the name of a CULT LEADER, your people are BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES!


Ian Astbury?



Vigilante said:


> Where are the SUPPOSED muslims that PROTEST your killing instinct?


I don't even know what you're asking here?



Vigilante said:


> They're AFRAID that they will be KILLED by their own, as you do with the different sects of muslims.... No, there is only one way to keep good people safe....dispatching ALL of your cult!


Oh yes, the "good" must commit genocide, to preserve the "goodness" of your tribe.



Vigilante said:


> To not do it, is committing suicide on our part!


To not do it, is to reduce the number of terrorists in the world.  Because what you do,   radicalizes normal folk into committing terrorist acts to survive.


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> JULIE LONDON - CRY ME A RIVER - YouTube


I got that beat_*.........EASY!*_


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show us some JEWISH HOMICIDE KILLERS?
> 
> 
> 
> Off the top of my head, how about the whacko settlers that iced Rabin?
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your people aren't animals, they are INHUMAN!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> White, Irish Catholics are inhuman?
> 
> I'm sure there are a few little boys who would agree with you.
> 
> We were attacked by white, Irish Catholics on 9/11?
> 
> Well hey, anything can happen after you've had a few too many!
> 
> Is that your Final Solution?
> 
> Do you know how much a "briefcase nuke" would weigh? About the same as a compact car.
> 
> Don't go there! You fuckers have already passed that mark.
> 
> Ian Astbury?
> 
> I don't even know what you're asking here?
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're AFRAID that they will be KILLED by their own, as you do with the different sects of muslims.... No, there is only one way to keep good people safe....dispatching ALL of your cult!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yes, the "good" must commit genocide, to preserve the "goodness" of your tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> To not do it, is committing suicide on our part!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To not do it, is to reduce the number of terrorists in the world. Because what you do, radicalizes normal folk into committing terrorist acts to survive.
Click to expand...


So all that bullshit to agree with me that we have to kill you terrorists in order to survive!


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> So all that bullshit to agree with me that we have to kill you terrorists in order to survive!


Why are you asking me?

You're the one playing make believe.


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> So all that bullshit to agree with me that we have to kill you terrorists in order to survive!
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you asking me?
> 
> You're the one *playing make believe.*
Click to expand...


OK....you're dead!


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> OK....you're dead!


OK.....you got me!

Now what?


Boy, that was fun!


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> My grandmama's ID said otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Your grandmother is a Palestinian?
> 
> Boy, would that be a game changer!
Click to expand...


My grandmama's ID says "Born in Palestine". 







Palestine

She was born in Israel, 1919, the original family immigrated in early 1883.

So yeah, I guess you can say she's a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Palestinian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




What she really was is a native Zionist Israeli.


----------



## Lipush

Sally said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck Israel!
> 
> They are no Palestinian's, that's for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My grandmama's ID said otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course the Jews were called Palestinians and had passports listing them as Palestinians.  In fact, those who manned the Palestine Exhibit at the World's Fair which was held in New York in 1940 were Jews, and the Jerusalem Post was originally called the Palestine Post, and I think we are all aware that the newspaper was started by Jews and is still run by Jews.
Click to expand...


You're runing my punch!

And here I was hoping he'd pass out of shock and wake up smarter


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> My grandmama's ID said otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Your grandmother is a Palestinian?
> 
> Boy, would that be a game changer!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *My grandmama's ID says "Born in Palestine". *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine
> 
> *She was born in Israel, 1919,* the original family immigrated in early 1883.
> 
> So yeah, I guess you can say she's a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she really was is a native Zionist Israeli.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're such a joke, the only way you can debate, is with cartoon caricatures.
> 
> And the best part is, whenever you do try to make your point verbally, you show the world the Palestinian's aren't the problem.  Or the animals.  Or the beasts.  Or the inhuman skum.  Your posts reflect everything you're trying to get people to think about the Palestinian's.
> 
> You say they're inhuman; yet everyone of your posts are completely void of humanity.
Click to expand...

No, the Palestinians aren't inhuman.

They merely reflect the worst humanity has to offer, in several key areas of evaluation.

Not the least of which is their low score on the _Common-Sense Meter_.


----------



## Lipush

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your grandmother is a Palestinian?
> 
> Boy, would that be a game changer!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *My grandmama's ID says "Born in Palestine". *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine
> 
> *She was born in Israel, 1919,* the original family immigrated in early 1883.
> 
> So yeah, I guess you can say she's a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she really was is a native Zionist Israeli.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Fact that you put something in feathers and glued a beak to it, still doesn't make it a duck.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> *My grandmama's ID says "Born in Palestine". *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine
> 
> *She was born in Israel, 1919,* the original family immigrated in early 1883.
> 
> So yeah, I guess you can say she's a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she really was is a native Zionist Israeli.


You're grandmother grew up during a time where people interacted face-to-face.  Where you took responsibility for your actions and treated others with respect.  And when someone wanted to start a fight, you're always ready to finish it.  Her society didn't have that strong element of narcissism, that permeates our generation.  So I doubt she's a Zionist.  In order to be a Zionist, you have to be an asshole.  And I don't think your grandmother is an asshole.

If she's a Palestinian-Jew, ask her what it was like back then living in the same area with Palestinian-Arabs?  I'm willing to wager her stories won't be the same as yours.



Lipush said:


> Fact that you put something in feathers and glued a beak to it, still doesn't make it a duck.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> No, the Palestinians aren't inhuman.
> 
> They merely reflect the worst humanity has to offer, in several key areas of evaluation.
> 
> Not the least of which is their low score on the _Common-Sense Meter_.


You really don't set the bar all that high, so you're certainly no one to talk about their humanity with all the baggage you display.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My grandmama's ID says "Born in Palestine". *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine
> 
> *She was born in Israel, 1919,* the original family immigrated in early 1883.
> 
> So yeah, I guess you can say she's a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she really was is a native Zionist Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> You're grandmother grew up during a time where people interacted face-to-face.  Where you took responsibility for your actions and treated others with respect.  And when someone wanted to start a fight, you're always ready to finish it.  Her society didn't have that strong element of narcissism, that permeates our generation.  So I doubt she's a Zionist.  In order to be a Zionist, you have to be an asshole.  And I don't think your grandmother is an asshole.
> 
> If she's a Palestinian-Jew, ask her what it was like back then living in the same area with Palestinian-Arabs?  I'm willing to wager her stories won't be the same as yours.
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact that you put something in feathers and glued a beak to it, still doesn't make it a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


She's in heaven, I cannot ask her anything, anymore.

And she came from a generation when it was a pride to be a Zionist fighter.

After her ranch got burned up by Arabs, she, let's put it into a civil manner, _didn't like _them very much.

She was defined as a right-winger Zionist. That's how she saw herself and that's how she let others see her.

Her memories of the Arabs were not pleasent ones.


----------



## Lipush

*"In order to be a Zionist you have to be an asshole".*


*I believe this lines sums up its user.*


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Palestinians aren't inhuman.
> 
> They merely reflect the worst humanity has to offer, in several key areas of evaluation.
> 
> Not the least of which is their low score on the _Common-Sense Meter_.
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't set the bar all that high, so you're certainly no one to talk about their humanity with all the baggage you display.
Click to expand...

Put a sock in it, Junior....


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Roudy

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My grandmama's ID says "Born in Palestine". *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine
> 
> *She was born in Israel, 1919,* the original family immigrated in early 1883.
> 
> So yeah, I guess you can say she's a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she really was is a native Zionist Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> You're grandmother grew up during a time where people interacted face-to-face.  Where you took responsibility for your actions and treated others with respect.  And when someone wanted to start a fight, you're always ready to finish it.  Her society didn't have that strong element of narcissism, that permeates our generation.  So I doubt she's a Zionist.  In order to be a Zionist, you have to be an asshole.  And I don't think your grandmother is an asshole.
> 
> If she's a Palestinian-Jew, ask her what it was like back then living in the same area with Palestinian-Arabs?  I'm willing to wager her stories won't be the same as yours.
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact that you put something in feathers and glued a beak to it, still doesn't make it a duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's in heaven, I cannot ask her anything, anymore.
> 
> And she came from a generation when it was a pride to be a Zionist fighter.
> 
> After her ranch got burned up by Arabs, she, let's put it into a civil manner, _didn't like _them very much.
> 
> She was defined as a right-winger Zionist. That's how she saw herself and that's how she let others see her.
> 
> Her memories of the Arabs were not pleasent ones.
Click to expand...

It was like that with every Jew that lived among Muslims.  They are intolerant savages, been that way before Israel came into existence.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your grandmother is a Palestinian?
> 
> Boy, would that be a game changer!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *My grandmama's ID says "Born in Palestine". *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine
> 
> *She was born in Israel, 1919,* the original family immigrated in early 1883.
> 
> So yeah, I guess you can say she's a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she really was is a native Zionist Israeli.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

What's confusing about it?  [MENTION=21837]P F Tinmore[/MENTION]   Don't try to think so hard. You'll pull a muscle.


----------



## MJB12741

Just curious, who were those bottom of the barrel low life scum who murdered an entire world Olympics team in Munich?






Vigilante said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're such a joke, the only way you can debate, is with cartoon caricatures.
> 
> And the best part is, whenever you do try to make your point verbally, you show the world the Palestinian's aren't the problem. Or the animals. Or the beasts. Or the inhuman skum. Your posts reflect everything you're trying to get people to think about the Palestinian's.
> 
> You say they're inhuman; yet everyone of your posts are completely void of humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show us some JEWISH HOMICIDE KILLERS? Your people aren't animals, they are INHUMAN! We saw it with YOUR PEOPLE killing almost 3000 innocent Americans, how many more Americans must die before American's realize that the muslim animals, need to be eradicated from this planet?.... Another 3,000 and a few large buildings?....A small briefcase nuke, and a hundred thousand killed or maimed?...No, it YOUR scum, shit people that are the cold blooded killers, doing it in the name of a CULT LEADER, your people are BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES!
> 
> Where are the SUPPOSED muslims that PROTEST your killing instinct? They're AFRAID that they will be KILLED by their own, as you do with the different sects of muslims.... No, there is only one way to keep good people safe....dispatching ALL of your cult! To not do it, is committing suicide on our part!
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> My grandmama's ID said otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Your grandmother is a Palestinian?
> 
> Boy, would that be a game changer!
Click to expand...


I have a great uncle that is a palestinian.  He still teaches hebrew to students at his church.

Regardless of their religion or nationality, I don't find anything unusual with posters that have palestinian relatives in their family tree.


----------



## MJB12741

Why does Israel continue to allow those Palestinian squatters to remain in Israel?


----------



## Vigilante

Perhaps THIS should be made into a flyer and DROPPED all over the muslim ME.... even those brain dead heathens will get the idea???...Probably not, but the point is well taken!


----------



## MJB12741

I find it difficult to feel any love or even sympathy for a people who blow themselves up, along with their own children & innocent others to honor God.





Vigilante said:


> Perhaps THIS should be made into a flyer and DROPPED all over the muslim ME.... even those brain dead heathens will get the idea???...Probably not, but the point is well taken!


----------



## Crystalclear

MJB12741 said:


> Why does Israel continue to allow those Palestinian squatters to remain in Israel?


Because the average Palestinian family cannot be held responsible for the fact that there are other people from their country that are terrorists. They often have no bad intentions and I don't see why a usual family must be the victim of a war.


----------



## Roudy

Crystalclear said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel continue to allow those Palestinian squatters to remain in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the average Palestinian family cannot be held responsible for the fact that there are other people from their country that are terrorists. They often have no bad intentions and I don't see why a usual family must be the victim of a war.
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that there never has been a "Palestinian country" or identity.


----------



## Vigilante

MJB12741 said:


> I find it difficult to feel any love or even sympathy for a people who blow themselves up, along with their own children & innocent others to honor God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps THIS should be made into a flyer and DROPPED all over the muslim ME.... even those brain dead heathens will get the idea???...Probably not, but the point is well taken!
Click to expand...

 
It's NOT GOD, they honor a pedophile cult leader, much like a Jim Jones who could make perfectly sane people act in an insane way, that killed uncounted people when he was alive!


----------



## Vigilante

Crystalclear said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Israel continue to allow those Palestinian squatters to remain in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the average Palestinian family cannot be held responsible for the fact that there are other people from their country that are terrorists. They often have no bad intentions and I don't see why a usual family must be the victim of a war.
Click to expand...

 
Then stop acting like cowards, control the killers, or be counted with them!


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> I find it difficult to feel any love or even sympathy for a people who blow themselves up, along with their own children & innocent others to honor God.


If they were as bad as you want people to believe they are, you would have a helluva lot more examples than that lame ass one you keep regurgitating again and again.  And they wouldn't be blanket generalizations, you'd be able to list at least 3 specific examples off the top of your head.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> *"In order to be a Zionist you have to be an asshole".*
> 
> 
> *I believe this lines sums up its user.*


Well, what do you call someone who constantly trashes an entire society of people 24/7 and finds violence against them perfectly acceptable and most times necessary?


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> I have a great uncle that is a palestinian.  He still teaches hebrew to students at his church.
> 
> Regardless of their religion or nationality, I don't find anything unusual with posters that have palestinian relatives in their family tree.


I hear that.  I have a relative who's actually a Boston Celtic fan and that just doesn't go well in Kobe country.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"In order to be a Zionist you have to be an asshole".*
> 
> 
> *I believe this lines sums up its user.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you call someone who constantly trashes an entire society of people 24/7 and finds violence against them perfectly acceptable and most times necessary?
Click to expand...

A neo Nazi, IslamoNazi, or perhaps just an ignorant moron like you.


----------



## Hossfly

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"In order to be a Zionist you have to be an asshole".*
> 
> 
> *I believe this lines sums up its user.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you call someone who constantly trashes an entire society of people 24/7 and finds violence against them perfectly acceptable and most times necessary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A neo Nazi, IslamoNazi, or perhaps just an ignorant moron like you.
Click to expand...

I think Billo is a wannabe community organizer with a foul mouth and a rotten disposition.


----------



## MJB12741

Now don't get me wrong.  You see, I have no problem or issue whatsoever with Palestinians pulling their pins to kill themselves & their own children.  It's just those innocent others I object to their killing.





Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to feel any love or even sympathy for a people who blow themselves up, along with their own children & innocent others to honor God.
> 
> 
> 
> If they were as bad as you want people to believe they are, you would have a helluva lot more examples than that lame ass one you keep regurgitating again and again.  And they wouldn't be blanket generalizations, you'd be able to list at least 3 specific examples off the top of your head.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Now don't get me wrong.  You see, I have no problem or issue whatsoever with Palestinians pulling their pins to kill themselves & their own children.  It's just those innocent others I object to their killing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to feel any love or even sympathy for a people who blow themselves up, along with their own children & innocent others to honor God.
> 
> 
> 
> If they were as bad as you want people to believe they are, you would have a helluva lot more examples than that lame ass one you keep regurgitating again and again.  And they wouldn't be blanket generalizations, you'd be able to list at least 3 specific examples off the top of your head.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Links?


----------



## MJB12741

Bless you for asking.  


Child suicide bombers in the Israeli?Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Bless you for asking.
> 
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli?Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Do you have something more recent that ten years ago?


----------



## MJB12741

Good boy Tinmore.  When you're hot, you're hot.  I never knew you were such a blessing to pro Israel side in this conflict.  


Palestinian women seek tougher laws to combat honor killings - Middle East Israel News | Haaretz






P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bless you for asking.
> 
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli?Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have something more recent that ten years ago?
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bless you for asking.
> 
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli?Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have something more recent that ten years ago?
Click to expand...

 
Sorry, the Palestinians are temporarily out of children WILLING to kill themselves for a cult leader.... New supply of suicide Kool-Aid due this summer!


----------



## MJB12741

Seems to me the least Israel can do is offer them Soda Stream to help them massacre each other & their own children.






Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bless you for asking.
> 
> 
> Child suicide bombers in the Israeli?Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have something more recent that ten years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, the Palestinians are temporarily out of children WILLING to kill themselves for a cult leader.... New supply of suicide Kool-Aid due this summer!
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Good boy Tinmore.  When you're hot, you're hot.  I never knew you were such a blessing to pro Israel side in this conflict.
> 
> 
> Palestinian women seek tougher laws to combat honor killings - Middle East Israel News | Haaretz


Hold on there, babalooey, I wouldn't be patting yourself on the back just yet.

On the one hand, you provided evidence for 9 documented cases of child suicide bombers between 2000 - 2004.  So you get credit for that.  In regards to the 9 cases, that was fucked and the parents of those children were fucked.

And on the other hand, 9 cases 10 years ago, does not prove your claim that the entire society is like that.  In fact, your own link disagrees with you!



> _*From your own link:*
> In 2004, the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers reported that *"there was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups," *also noting that this remains a small fraction of the problem in other conflict zones such as Africa, where there are an estimated 20,000 children involved in active combat roles in the Sudan alone. Human Rights Watch also reported that *"there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority (PA) recruited or used child soldiers." *_


It also provides some insight as to why these children become suicide bombers.


> _ there was little difficulty in finding young men interested in becoming suicide bombers in Gaza and the West Bank. *Repeated actual and expected events humiliate youngsters and interfere with their adaptive identifications with their parents because their parents are humiliated as well*._


And just who are the ones doing the humiliating?

You fuckers!


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good boy Tinmore.  When you're hot, you're hot.  I never knew you were such a blessing to pro Israel side in this conflict.
> 
> 
> Palestinian women seek tougher laws to combat honor killings - Middle East Israel News | Haaretz
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on there, babalooey, I wouldn't be patting yourself on the back just yet.
> 
> On the one hand, you provided evidence for 9 documented cases of child suicide bombers between 2000 - 2004.  So you get credit for that.  In regards to the 9 cases, that was fucked and the parents of those children were fucked.
> 
> And on the other hand, 9 cases 10 years ago, does not prove your claim that the entire society is like that.  In fact, your own link disagrees with you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*From your own link:*
> In 2004, the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers reported that *"there was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups," *also noting that this remains a small fraction of the problem in other conflict zones such as Africa, where there are an estimated 20,000 children involved in active combat roles in the Sudan alone. Human Rights Watch also reported that *"there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority (PA) recruited or used child soldiers." *_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It also provides some insight as to why these children become suicide bombers.
> 
> 
> 
> _ there was little difficulty in finding young men interested in becoming suicide bombers in Gaza and the West Bank. *Repeated actual and expected events humiliate youngsters and interfere with their adaptive identifications with their parents because their parents are humiliated as well*._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And just who are the ones doing the humiliating?
> 
> You fuckers!
Click to expand...

Fun, isn't it?


----------



## Crystalclear

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"In order to be a Zionist you have to be an asshole".*
> 
> 
> *I believe this lines sums up its user.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you call someone who constantly trashes an entire society of people 24/7 and finds violence against them perfectly acceptable and most times necessary?
Click to expand...

An idiot or Nazi came earlier to my mind than a Zionist, actually.


----------



## Billo_Really

Crystalclear said:


> An idiot or Nazi came earlier to my mind than a Zionist, actually.


You are correct!

Are they as bad as the Nazis?  No.  Are their actions as bad as the Holocaust?  No.

Are there similarities between the two?  Yes.  A lot of their propaganda, is right out of the Goebbels's playbook.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> 
> An idiot or Nazi came earlier to my mind than a Zionist, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct!
> 
> Are they as bad as the Nazis?  No.  Are their actions as bad as the Holocaust?  No.
> 
> Are there similarities between the two?  Yes.  A lot of their propaganda, is right out of the Goebbels's playbook.
Click to expand...


And ONCE AGAIN, we see a pro Palestinian blame Israel for exactly what the Palestinians are guilty of.
Goebbels propaganda?? Look no further than Hamass propaganda videos:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=hamas music video&sm=12


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"In order to be a Zionist you have to be an asshole".*
> 
> 
> *I believe this lines sums up its user.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you call someone who constantly trashes an entire society of people 24/7 and finds violence against them perfectly acceptable and most times necessary?
Click to expand...


You're keep making claims of what I believe is correct and incorret, but never back them up.

I find you to be a very dishonest man, Billy.


----------



## Lipush

Roudy said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're grandmother grew up during a time where people interacted face-to-face.  Where you took responsibility for your actions and treated others with respect.  And when someone wanted to start a fight, you're always ready to finish it.  Her society didn't have that strong element of narcissism, that permeates our generation.  So I doubt she's a Zionist.  In order to be a Zionist, you have to be an asshole.  And I don't think your grandmother is an asshole.
> 
> If she's a Palestinian-Jew, ask her what it was like back then living in the same area with Palestinian-Arabs?  I'm willing to wager her stories won't be the same as yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's in heaven, I cannot ask her anything, anymore.
> 
> And she came from a generation when it was a pride to be a Zionist fighter.
> 
> After her ranch got burned up by Arabs, she, let's put it into a civil manner, _didn't like _them very much.
> 
> She was defined as a right-winger Zionist. That's how she saw herself and that's how she let others see her.
> 
> Her memories of the Arabs were not pleasent ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was like that with every Jew that lived among Muslims.  They are intolerant savages, been that way before Israel came into existence.
Click to expand...


It was not about religion, it was about ideology. She was born in the land, and the Arabs didn't like that Jews were present there.

The way of violence was acceptable by them. So, fair enough, the Zionist pioneers fought back.

She saw how her generation fought, she lived through the british occupation to see how things drastically changed since then.

If anyone is credible to talk about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, are people fron that generation.

Besides my soul constantly missing her everyday, and craving her company, I also feel very sad that I cannot ask her the tough questions now. She died when I was a teenager, I didn't see things back then like I see them now, and she didn't want me to know things before my mind reached maturity.

Sadly, there are things I will never know, now


----------



## Lipush

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"In order to be a Zionist you have to be an asshole".*
> 
> 
> *I believe this lines sums up its user.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you call someone who constantly trashes an entire society of people 24/7 and finds violence against them perfectly acceptable and most times necessary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A neo Nazi, IslamoNazi, or perhaps just an ignorant moron like you.
Click to expand...


Ha! good one


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> A neo Nazi, IslamoNazi, or perhaps just an ignorant moron like you.


Except for the fact I don't trash people 24/7.  And when I do, I have a good reason for doing so and I am able to explain that reason specifically and I don't use the same "reason" for everyone I trash.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> It was like that with every Jew that lived among Muslims.  They are intolerant savages, been that way before Israel came into existence.


You really shouldn't go there!

As far as "intolerant savages" go, your track record is far worse than there's.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> If anyone is credible to talk about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, are people fron that generation.


Here's someone from that generation, care to comment on what he said?



> _
> ...the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives ... _


Notice he makes the distinction between "settlers" and "natives".

Settlers were the Zionists; natives were the Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews.



> _
> 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination *...'
> Ahad Ha'am _


Now go ahead and argue you played no role in causing  the violence.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> You're keep making claims of what I believe is correct and incorret, but never back them up.
> 
> I find you to be a very dishonest man, Billy.


Show me one post where you took a Palestinian's side.  Or defended a Palestinian against an Israeli.  Or one post showing empathy towards a Palestinian story that had no Israeli element to it?

I'm not making anything up.  I provided you an example of an extreme case of violence and your initial reaction was indifference.  Your second reaction was casting irrelevant aspersions in defense of the shooter.

But if I'm wrong, prove it, don't say it.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> And ONCE AGAIN, we see a pro Palestinian blame Israel for exactly what the Palestinians are guilty of.
> Goebbels propaganda?? Look no further than Hamass propaganda videos:
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/results?q=hamas music video&sm=12


Granted, they're not as extravagant as using a "fake" ship, to video the Mavi Marmara incident?


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> 
> An idiot or Nazi came earlier to my mind than a Zionist, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct!
> 
> Are they as bad as the Nazis?  No.  Are their actions as bad as the Holocaust?  No.
> 
> Are there similarities between the two?  Yes.  A lot of their propaganda, is right out of the Goebbels's playbook.
Click to expand...

You must be referring to Muslims. 

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're keep making claims of what I believe is correct and incorret, but never back them up.
> 
> I find you to be a very dishonest man, Billy.
> 
> 
> 
> Show me one post where you took a Palestinian's side.  Or defended a Palestinian against an Israeli.  Or one post showing empathy towards a Palestinian story that had no Israeli element to it?
> 
> I'm not making anything up.  I provided you an example of an extreme case of violence and your initial reaction was indifference.  Your second reaction was casting irrelevant aspersions in defense of the shooter.
> 
> But if I'm wrong, prove it, don't say it.
Click to expand...

That's rich, coming from a Pali terrorist worshipping nutjob.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was like that with every Jew that lived among Muslims.  They are intolerant savages, been that way before Israel came into existence.
> 
> 
> 
> You really shouldn't go there!
> 
> As far as "intolerant savages" go, your track record is far worse than there's.
Click to expand...

"Go there".  You ignoramus, Jews had been living in those countries for in some cases for thousands of years, and are the descendants of Jews that fled the destruction of the first and second temples.  That means they are more native to those lands than even the Arab Muslim invaders. 

Now, thanks to Arab /Muslim intolerance and savagery, many of those same Jews are back in Israel, where their ancestors came from.   In fact a majority of Israelis are these same Sephardic or Mizrahi Jews.


----------



## MJB12741

You betcha Israel played a role in causing the violence.  What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so the squatters can remain to kill Israeli's?  Face it folks, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.  If there is ever to be a lasting peace, first this entire failed Zionist agenda has to go.





Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone is credible to talk about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, are people fron that generation.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's someone from that generation, care to comment on what he said?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> ...the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives ... _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Notice he makes the distinction between "settlers" and "natives".
> 
> Settlers were the Zionists; natives were the Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination *...'
> Ahad Ha'am _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now go ahead and argue you played no role in causing  the violence.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And ONCE AGAIN, we see a pro Palestinian blame Israel for exactly what the Palestinians are guilty of.
> Goebbels propaganda?? Look no further than Hamass propaganda videos:
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/results?q=hamas music video&sm=12
> 
> 
> 
> Granted, they're not as extravagant as using a "fake" ship, to video the Mavi Marmara incident?
Click to expand...


That's a massive load of crap. Even people on the ship confirmed that they beat Israeli soldiers as they came down.
What the fuck do you expect to happen to you when you attack special naval forces??
Answer that question please


----------



## Ropey

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was like that with every Jew that lived among Muslims.  They are intolerant savages, been that way before Israel came into existence.
> 
> 
> 
> You really shouldn't go there!
> 
> As far as "intolerant savages" go, your track record is far worse than there's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Go there".  You ignoramus, Jews had been living in those countries for in some cases for thousands of years, and are the descendants of Jews that fled the destruction of the first and second temples.  That means they are more native to those lands than even the Arab Muslim invaders.
> 
> Now, thanks to Arab /Muslim intolerance and savagery, many of those same Jews are back in Israel, where their ancestors came from.   In fact a majority of Israelis are these same Sephardic or Mizrahi Jews.
Click to expand...


tff

Thanks for the chuckle Billo.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And ONCE AGAIN, we see a pro Palestinian blame Israel for exactly what the Palestinians are guilty of.
> Goebbels propaganda?? Look no further than Hamass propaganda videos:
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/results?q=hamas music video&sm=12
> 
> 
> 
> Granted, they're not as extravagant as using a "fake" ship, to video the Mavi Marmara incident?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a massive load of crap. Even people on the ship confirmed that they beat Israeli soldiers as they came down.
> What the fuck do you expect to happen to you when you attack special naval forces??
> Answer that question please
Click to expand...


What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Granted, they're not as extravagant as using a "fake" ship, to video the Mavi Marmara incident?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQRWl_DUrGA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a massive load of crap. Even people on the ship confirmed that they beat Israeli soldiers as they came down.
> What the fuck do you expect to happen to you when you attack special naval forces??
> Answer that question please
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
Click to expand...

To be attacked. That what soldiers expect. Then they open a can of whoop ass.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Granted, they're not as extravagant as using a "fake" ship, to video the Mavi Marmara incident?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQRWl_DUrGA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a massive load of crap. Even people on the ship confirmed that they beat Israeli soldiers as they came down.
> What the fuck do you expect to happen to you when you attack special naval forces??
> Answer that question please
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
Click to expand...


What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?

What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade? 
Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?

What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?

Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??

The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a massive load of crap. Even people on the ship confirmed that they beat Israeli soldiers as they came down.
> What the fuck do you expect to happen to you when you attack special naval forces??
> Answer that question please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To be attacked. That what soldiers expect. Then they open a can of whoop ass.
Click to expand...


Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it attacks.

What a coincident.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a massive load of crap. Even people on the ship confirmed that they beat Israeli soldiers as they came down.
> What the fuck do you expect to happen to you when you attack special naval forces??
> Answer that question please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told *twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
Click to expand...


Told, blah, blah, blah.

They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> 
> 
> To be attacked. That what soldiers expect. Then they open a can of whoop ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel always has to "defend itself" from the people it attacks.
> 
> What a coincident.
Click to expand...

I would like to see Tinmore rappel into a group of soldiers just to see him shit from 40 feet high.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told *twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Told, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.
Click to expand...

Maritime Rules of the Seas, Tinmore. They don't mean squat?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told *twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Told, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maritime Rules of the Seas, Tinmore. They don't mean squat?
Click to expand...


No rules mean anything to Israel.

It is a rogue state.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told *twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Told, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.
Click to expand...


They were on their way to break the blockade, and close to it when they got boarded.They even announced their intentions. You don't wait until they break the blockade to board the ship.
The 'but they were international waters' argument is weak and meaningless.
Low IQ idiots those idiot 'activists'.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Told, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.
> 
> 
> 
> Maritime Rules of the Seas, Tinmore. They don't mean squat?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No rules mean anything to Israel.
> 
> It is a rogue state.
Click to expand...


Israel is not a rogue state.

Only a liar with nor argument left would say such an idiotic thing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told *twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Told, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were on their way to break the blockade, and close to it when they got boarded.They even announced their intentions. You don't wait until they break the blockade to board the ship.
> The 'but they were international waters' argument is weak and meaningless.
> Low IQ idiots those idiot 'activists'.
Click to expand...


For one thing, Israel knew for a fact that there were no weapons aboard. The whole world knew.

If I remember the law correctly, blockades only apply to military and commercial ships. They do not apply to religious, medical, or philanthropic ships.

Israel really shot itself in the foot with that blunder.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Told, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were on their way to break the blockade, and close to it when they got boarded.They even announced their intentions. You don't wait until they break the blockade to board the ship.
> The 'but they were international waters' argument is weak and meaningless.
> Low IQ idiots those idiot 'activists'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For one thing, Israel knew for a fact that there were no weapons aboard. The whole world knew.
> 
> If I remember the law correctly, blockades only apply to military and commercial ships. They do not apply to religious, medical, or philanthropic ships.
> 
> Israel really shot itself in the foot with that blunder.
Click to expand...



Nah, the ship was nothing but a provocative media stunt. 

And if a country has a blockade, it is not for Turkish citizens to determine weather they can break it or not. They could have went to Ashdod port instead of looking for fight. Why did they try to break the blockade if they knew they would get boarded??


----------



## toastman

It doesn't matter if they knew that there were no weapons on board.
That's not a reason to omit searching them. Every ship that passes get searched. 
There's no way to know 100% that there would not be weapons on board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were on their way to break the blockade, and close to it when they got boarded.They even announced their intentions. You don't wait until they break the blockade to board the ship.
> The 'but they were international waters' argument is weak and meaningless.
> Low IQ idiots those idiot 'activists'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one thing, Israel knew for a fact that there were no weapons aboard. The whole world knew.
> 
> If I remember the law correctly, blockades only apply to military and commercial ships. They do not apply to religious, medical, or philanthropic ships.
> 
> Israel really shot itself in the foot with that blunder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Nah, the ship was nothing but a provocative media stunt. *
> 
> And if a country has a blockade, it is not for Turkish citizens to determine weather they can break it or not. They could have went to Ashdod port instead of looking for fight. Why did they try to break the blockade if they knew they would get boarded??
Click to expand...


Indeed, and it worked too. Israel is still wiping the egg off its face.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For one thing, Israel knew for a fact that there were no weapons aboard. The whole world knew.
> 
> If I remember the law correctly, blockades only apply to military and commercial ships. They do not apply to religious, medical, or philanthropic ships.
> 
> Israel really shot itself in the foot with that blunder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nah, the ship was nothing but a provocative media stunt. *
> 
> And if a country has a blockade, it is not for Turkish citizens to determine weather they can break it or not. They could have went to Ashdod port instead of looking for fight. Why did they try to break the blockade if they knew they would get boarded??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, and it worked too. Israel is still wiping the egg off its face.
Click to expand...


Well at least you admit the intentions of the Mavi Marmara. 
Thanks for the honesty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nah, the ship was nothing but a provocative media stunt. *
> 
> And if a country has a blockade, it is not for Turkish citizens to determine weather they can break it or not. They could have went to Ashdod port instead of looking for fight. Why did they try to break the blockade if they knew they would get boarded??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and it worked too. Israel is still wiping the egg off its face.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well at least you admit the intentions of the Mavi Marmara.
> Thanks for the honesty.
Click to expand...


They put Israel in a lose, lose situation.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and it worked too. Israel is still wiping the egg off its face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least you admit the intentions of the Mavi Marmara.
> Thanks for the honesty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They put Israel in a lose, lose situation.
Click to expand...


And got themselves killed in the process.

Whoops!


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least you admit the intentions of the Mavi Marmara.
> Thanks for the honesty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They put Israel in a lose, lose situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And got themselves killed in the process.
> 
> Whoops!
Click to expand...


I guess those clowns couldn't figure out that they were not wanted.


----------



## MJB12741

Next time they try that again there is a far better approach available for Israel.  When the armada approaches toward Israel's shores, just torpedo it so the Palestinians can't bitch again about Israel boarding it to check for bombs & weapons.






toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a massive load of crap. Even people on the ship confirmed that they beat Israeli soldiers as they came down.
> What the fuck do you expect to happen to you when you attack special naval forces??
> Answer that question please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They put Israel in a lose, lose situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And got themselves killed in the process.
> 
> Whoops!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess those clowns couldn't figure out that they were not wanted.
Click to expand...


Huh?


----------



## montelatici

MJB12741 said:


> Next time they try that again there is a far better approach available for Israel.  When the armada approaches toward Israel's shores, just torpedo it so the Palestinians can't bitch again about Israel boarding it to check for bombs & weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


That's exactly what the German U-Boats did, sank neutral shipping on the Atlantic.


----------



## toastman

MJB12741 said:


> Next time they try that again there is a far better approach available for Israel.  When the armada approaches toward Israel's shores, just torpedo it so the Palestinians can't bitch again about Israel boarding it to check for bombs & weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did those clowns expect when they attack a ship?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


These Turks have a lot in common with Palestinian.

For one thing, they attack Israel and then bitch when Israel hits back.


----------



## MJB12741

"Neutral shipping" by Palestinians?  Now THAT"S funny!





montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Next time they try that again there is a far better approach available for Israel.  When the armada approaches toward Israel's shores, just torpedo it so the Palestinians can't bitch again about Israel boarding it to check for bombs & weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what the German U-Boats did, sank neutral shipping on the Atlantic.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Next time they try that again there is a far better approach available for Israel.  When the armada approaches toward Israel's shores, just torpedo it so the Palestinians can't bitch again about Israel boarding it to check for bombs & weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's exactly what the German U-Boats did, sank neutral shipping on the Atlantic.
Click to expand...

So did every other navy. I have a buddy who was on a Japanese troopship as a POW and the American Navy sank it. He was one of a handful of survivors.


----------



## montelatici

A Japanese troop ship is neutral shipping?

"Unrestricted Submarine Warfare
The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was announced by Germany on January 9th, 1917. The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was to have a major impact on World War One as it was one of the main reasons why America joined the war......At that time America was a neutral state whose ships frequently and legally crossed the Atlantic with supplies for the Allies. Bethmann Hollweg&#8217;s views seem to have been based on a political perspective &#8211; the thought of angering America. The only person who was known to have expressed humanitarian views was the Kaiser who stated that* the drowning of innocent civilians was &#8220;a dreadful thought&#8221;."*

Unrestricted Submarine Warfare


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> It doesn't matter if they knew that there were no weapons on board.
> That's not a reason to omit searching them. Every ship that passes get searched.
> There's no way to know 100% that there would not be weapons on board.



They were 100% sure. The cargo was inspected by the port authority of the port of departure. Journalists and news organizations were invited to inspect the cargo. The flotilla offered to have an international body like the UN or the Red Cross inspect the cargo.

There was *nothing there except aid* being brought to Gaza by unarmed civilians.

So why did Israel have to attack?


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> A Japanese troop ship is neutral shipping?
> 
> "Unrestricted Submarine Warfare
> The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was announced by Germany on January 9th, 1917. The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was to have a major impact on World War One as it was one of the main reasons why America joined the war......At that time America was a neutral state whose ships frequently and legally crossed the Atlantic with supplies for the Allies. Bethmann Hollweg&#8217;s views seem to have been based on a political perspective &#8211; the thought of angering America. The only person who was known to have expressed humanitarian views was the Kaiser who stated that* the drowning of innocent civilians was &#8220;a dreadful thought&#8221;."*
> 
> Unrestricted Submarine Warfare


I didn't say it was neutral. The Navy had every right to sink it. They had no idea Americans were aboard or they wouldn't have sunk it..


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if they knew that there were no weapons on board.
> That's not a reason to omit searching them. Every ship that passes get searched.
> There's no way to know 100% that there would not be weapons on board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were 100% sure. The cargo was inspected by the port authority of the port of departure. Journalists and news organizations were invited to inspect the cargo. The flotilla offered to have an international body like the UN or the Red Cross inspect the cargo.
> 
> There was *nothing there except aid* being brought to Gaza by unarmed civilians.
> 
> So why did Israel have to attack?
Click to expand...

It makes no difference even if the U S Border Patrol had inspected the ship. The IDF had a blockade and the Turks tried to run it. Next time the IDF might sink the ship and no one in the world can do anything about it. Can't you get that through your punkin head?


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Japanese troop ship is neutral shipping?
> 
> "Unrestricted Submarine Warfare
> The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was announced by Germany on January 9th, 1917. The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was to have a major impact on World War One as it was one of the main reasons why America joined the war......At that time America was a neutral state whose ships frequently and legally crossed the Atlantic with supplies for the Allies. Bethmann Hollwegs views seem to have been based on a political perspective  the thought of angering America. The only person who was known to have expressed humanitarian views was the Kaiser who stated that* the drowning of innocent civilians was a dreadful thought."*
> 
> Unrestricted Submarine Warfare
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was neutral. The Navy had every right to sink it. They had no idea Americans were aboard or they wouldn't have sunk it..
Click to expand...


I said* neutral* shipping, that's what Israel would be doing if they torpedoed neutral shipping.  Turkey is a neutral.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and it worked too. Israel is still wiping the egg off its face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least you admit the intentions of the Mavi Marmara.
> Thanks for the honesty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They put Israel in a lose, lose situation.
Click to expand...

Yeah they sure did.  And what came out of it?  ZIP.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Japanese troop ship is neutral shipping?
> 
> "Unrestricted Submarine Warfare
> The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was announced by Germany on January 9th, 1917. The use of unrestricted submarine warfare was to have a major impact on World War One as it was one of the main reasons why America joined the war......At that time America was a neutral state whose ships frequently and legally crossed the Atlantic with supplies for the Allies. Bethmann Hollwegs views seem to have been based on a political perspective  the thought of angering America. The only person who was known to have expressed humanitarian views was the Kaiser who stated that* the drowning of innocent civilians was a dreadful thought."*
> 
> Unrestricted Submarine Warfare
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was neutral. The Navy had every right to sink it. They had no idea Americans were aboard or they wouldn't have sunk it..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said* neutral* shipping, that's what Israel would be doing if they torpedoed neutral shipping.  Turkey is a neutral.
Click to expand...

I don't care if the Pope is aboard and he's neutral. Trying to break a blockade is an act of war. Geez, how dense can people get?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They put Israel in a lose, lose situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And got themselves killed in the process.
> 
> Whoops!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess those clowns couldn't figure out that they were not wanted.
Click to expand...

If they would have stopped and let the Israelis inspect, nothing would have happened. Instead they chose to provoke the Israelis.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if they knew that there were no weapons on board.
> That's not a reason to omit searching them. Every ship that passes get searched.
> There's no way to know 100% that there would not be weapons on board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were 100% sure. The cargo was inspected by the port authority of the port of departure. Journalists and news organizations were invited to inspect the cargo. The flotilla offered to have an international body like the UN or the Red Cross inspect the cargo.
> 
> There was *nothing there except aid* being brought to Gaza by unarmed civilians.
> 
> So why did Israel have to attack?
Click to expand...


Why do use the word attack??? 

Oh I know why, it was to promote your agenda.

Israel didn't attack. They boarded the ship, just like the Turks knew they would. 
You admitted it yourself. And I already answered your question. Every ship gets checked. It's a naval blockade , you don 't just let ships pass because you have knowledge of there being o weapons on board. No country would do such a stupid thing.

They provoked Israel for the purpose of making a huge media frenzy, and they succeeded. Only thing is they got 9 of their shipmates killed, and called them martyrs. Those people died for the idiots who put this stunt together. 
Whows how little they value life.


----------



## aris2chat

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What did the clowns on the boat expect when they were told *twice to follow the Israeli Navy to follow it to the Ashdod port, like the other ships did?
> 
> What did those clown expect when they knowingly, willingly and stupidly tried to break the Israeli blockade?
> Did they expect Israel to let them pass through without issue?
> 
> What did those clowns expect the naval commandos to do when they started beating them with batons, knives etc..? Did they expect them to jump in the water?
> 
> Why didn't those clowns go to Ashdod port for inspection like the other ships??
> 
> The Mavi Marmara was a propaganda media stunt ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Told, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> They were in international waters. What those clowns said doesn't mean beans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were on their way to break the blockade, and close to it when they got boarded.They even announced their intentions. You don't wait until they break the blockade to board the ship.
> The 'but they were international waters' argument is weak and meaningless.
> Low IQ idiots those idiot 'activists'.
Click to expand...


To have actually broken the blockade before being boarded would have been a psychological victory.  They could suggest that Israel was weak and could be defeated more easily.  It is a game of inches and propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And got themselves killed in the process.
> 
> Whoops!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess those clowns couldn't figure out that they were not wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they would have stopped and let the Israelis inspect, *nothing would have happened. *Instead they chose to provoke the Israelis.
Click to expand...


Yeah it did. Israel stole their stuff.


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was neutral. The Navy had every right to sink it. They had no idea Americans were aboard or they wouldn't have sunk it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said* neutral* shipping, that's what Israel would be doing if they torpedoed neutral shipping.  Turkey is a neutral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care if the Pope is aboard and he's neutral. Trying to break a blockade is an act of war. Geez, how dense can people get?
Click to expand...


Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?


"In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."

The Lusitania


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess those clowns couldn't figure out that they were not wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> If they would have stopped and let the Israelis inspect, *nothing would have happened. *Instead they chose to provoke the Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah it did. Israel stole their stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah right, bull-Shi'ite. Israel has intercepted many boats filled with weapons, missiles, and rocket launchers from Iran, Syria, or Hezbollah. Who are you fooling? Egypt has their border with Gaza closed for the same reason.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said* neutral* shipping, that's what Israel would be doing if they torpedoed neutral shipping.  Turkey is a neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if the Pope is aboard and he's neutral. Trying to break a blockade is an act of war. Geez, how dense can people get?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.

U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*

UNITED NATIONS &#8212; A long-awaited United Nations review of Israel&#8217;s 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israel&#8217;s naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they would have stopped and let the Israelis inspect, *nothing would have happened. *Instead they chose to provoke the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it did. Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah right, bull-Shi'ite. Israel has intercepted many boats filled with weapons, missiles, and rocket launchers from Iran, Syria, or Hezbollah. Who are you fooling? Egypt has their border with Gaza closed for the same reason.
Click to expand...


That is a load of Israeli crap. There were no weapons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if the Pope is aboard and he's neutral. Trying to break a blockade is an act of war. Geez, how dense can people get?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
Click to expand...


You're not talking about that Palmer whitewash, are you?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it did. Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah right, bull-Shi'ite. Israel has intercepted many boats filled with weapons, missiles, and rocket launchers from Iran, Syria, or Hezbollah. Who are you fooling? Egypt has their border with Gaza closed for the same reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a load of Israeli crap. There were no weapons.
Click to expand...

What is a load of crap?  That Israel has intercepted other boats with missiles, or that Egypt has a similar blockade at its border because Hamas animals cannot be trusted. 

It does not matter if there were or weren't any weapons on the boat, you approach a border or a military blockade, you have to stop when asked to, if you don't you're asking for it. Of all people Israelis are not people you want fuck with.

Israel should have torpedoed the fuckers.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're not talking about that Palmer whitewash, are you?
Click to expand...

No I'm talking about a UN vote that determined the blockade as totally legal.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said* neutral* shipping, that's what Israel would be doing if they torpedoed neutral shipping.  Turkey is a neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if the Pope is aboard and he's neutral. Trying to break a blockade is an act of war. Geez, how dense can people get?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
Click to expand...

I am talking about running a blockade. Not about contraband. The ship was being blockaded.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if the Pope is aboard and he's neutral. Trying to break a blockade is an act of war. Geez, how dense can people get?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
Click to expand...


The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
Click to expand...

It wasn't sunk, it was legally blockaded. End of story.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about that Palmer whitewash, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I'm talking about a UN vote that determined the blockade as totally legal.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS &#8212; A long-awaited United Nations review of Israel&#8217;s 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israel&#8217;s naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.


How many times do I have to blow your precious Palmer Report out of the sky before you catch the fucking clue his group wasn't commissioned by the UN to determine the legality of the blockade?  They didn't interview any eye-witnesses who were there.  Based all their findings on flawed reports from the Israeli government and had no one on the commission that was an expert in international maritime law.  The Palmer Commission even publically stated their main goal was to ease relations between Israel and Turkey.

Another UN commission that was convened to determine the legality of the blockade, did have experts on international law and did interview eye-witnesses, concluded that the blockade was not only illegal, but also a war crime.  Because it collectively punishes the entire population of Gaza.  And no one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not talking about that Palmer whitewash, are you?
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm talking about a UN vote that determined the blockade as totally legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You have to be kidding Tinmore. This was hashed out before and links, videos and articles were posted. Go back and find them on your own.


----------



## Billo_Really

montelatici said:


> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.


The blockade is not legal.  But more importantly, you cannot attack a ship, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation, in international waters.

That's called piracy.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade is not legal.  But more importantly, you cannot attack a ship, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation, in international waters.
> 
> That's called piracy.
Click to expand...

That's B.S., Billo.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS &#8212; A long-awaited United Nations review of Israel&#8217;s 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israel&#8217;s naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> How many times do I have to blow your precious Palmer Report out of the sky before you catch the fucking clue his group wasn't commissioned by the UN to determine the legality of the blockade?  They didn't interview any eye-witnesses who were there.  Based all their findings on flawed reports from the Israeli government and had no one on the commission that was an expert in international maritime law.  The Palmer Commission even publically stated their main goal was to ease relations between Israel and Turkey.
> 
> Another UN commission that was convened to determine the legality of the blockade, did have experts on international law and did interview eye-witnesses, concluded that the blockade was not only illegal, but also a war crime.  Because it collectively punishes the entire population of Gaza.  And no one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit.
Click to expand...

Another load of B.S. Material has been posted here months ago.


----------



## Billo_Really

The Turks sent the wrong ship.  

You want to bring aid to Gaza, this is the ship you send...


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade is not legal.  But more importantly, you cannot attack a ship, sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation, in international waters.
> 
> That's called piracy.
Click to expand...


What a pathetic excuse!! They had already announced their intentions to break to blockade and were close by when they were boarded..
Why wait until they actually break the blockade to board them??

And why didn't the Mavi go to the Ashdod port like the other ships ? Why cause a provocation?
I'll tell you why, because it was a media stunt that was meant to vilify Israel. And idiots like you actually fell for it


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Another load of B.S. Material has been posted here months ago.


Then prove it wrong.

I can post the links to back up my claim, you cannot.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> What a pathetic excuse!! They had already announced their intentions to break to blockade and were close by when they were boarded..
> Why wait until they actually break the blockade to board them??
> 
> And why didn't the Mavi go to the Ashdod port like the other ships ? Why cause a provocation?
> I'll tell you why, because it was a media stunt that was meant to vilify Israel. And idiots like you actually fell for it


It's not pathetic, it's the law.

And the vessel was boarded in international waters.

Furthermore, an American citizen was summarily executed for what?  

Possession of illegal food?


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a pathetic excuse!! They had already announced their intentions to break to blockade and were close by when they were boarded..
> Why wait until they actually break the blockade to board them??
> 
> And why didn't the Mavi go to the Ashdod port like the other ships ? Why cause a provocation?
> I'll tell you why, because it was a media stunt that was meant to vilify Israel. And idiots like you actually fell for it
> 
> 
> 
> It's not pathetic, it's the law.
> 
> And the vessel was boarded in international waters.
> 
> Furthermore, an American citizen was summarily executed for what?
> 
> Possession of illegal food?
Click to expand...


Stop playing the victim card.
The blood of every victim is in the hand of those idiot Turks who put this together.
And you are asking questions without answering mine.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another load of B.S. Material has been posted here months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Then prove it wrong.
> 
> I can post the links to back up my claim, you cannot.
Click to expand...

The links, articles and videos were posted months ago Billo. You should have gotten here sooner. But you're welcome to go back and search for them. To you it's OK for ships and Coast Guards to intercept ships in int'l waters but blockade busters can't be? BS.


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't sunk, it was legally blockaded. End of story.
Click to expand...


I was responding to an idiot that recommended that the Israelis torpedo ships bringing aid to Gaza.  I was not talking about the recent attack on the Turkish ship.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever read International Law or do you just like to blather nonsense?
> 
> 
> "In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items."
> 
> The Lusitania
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS &#8212; A long-awaited United Nations review of Israel&#8217;s 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israel&#8217;s naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
Click to expand...

If the blockade is legal and a ship is asked to stop for inspection and doesn't, then sinking it would be legal. It's as simple as that. Your logic is always faulty.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't sunk, it was legally blockaded. End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was responding to an idiot that recommended that the Israelis torpedo ships bringing aid to Gaza.  I was not talking about the recent attack on the Turkish ship.
Click to expand...

I recommend torpedoing any ship that doesn't stop. It could be carrying a WMD on a suicide mission, WHO KNOWS. Muslims are capable of anything. .


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> The Turks sent the wrong ship.
> 
> You want to bring aid to Gaza, this is the ship you send...


The child repeats his crayola-drawings of several months ago...

Snicker...


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the blockade is legal then when a ship is asked to stop for inspection and doesn't, then sinking it would be legal. It's as simple as that. Your logic is always faulty.
Click to expand...


Your mind is faulty.  I was responding to one of your friends that suggested that neutral ships bringing aid should be torpedoed.


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a pathetic excuse!! They had already announced their intentions to break to blockade and were close by when they were boarded..
> Why wait until they actually break the blockade to board them??
> 
> And why didn't the Mavi go to the Ashdod port like the other ships ? Why cause a provocation?
> I'll tell you why, because it was a media stunt that was meant to vilify Israel. And idiots like you actually fell for it
> 
> 
> 
> It's not pathetic, it's the law.
> 
> And the vessel was boarded in international waters.
> 
> Furthermore, an American citizen was summarily executed for what?
> 
> Possession of illegal food?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop playing the victim card.
> The blood of every victim is in the hand of those idiot Turks who put this together.
> And you are asking questions without answering mine.
Click to expand...

The French had successfully prosecuted them for terrorism charges.  The Turks admitted later that they were Islamic radicals coming from a mosque in a Turkey with terrorist ties, but looked the other way.

They should have torpedoed that fucker.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> The Turks sent the wrong ship.
> 
> You want to bring aid to Gaza, this is the ship you send...


We now pause our regular programming for a brief moment of mental masturbation to the destruction of Israel, and other delusional thoughts.


----------



## MJB12741

Golly gee, I wonder what the USA would do if some uninvited foreign ship were closing in on our shoreline?  I sincerely doubt we would kindly just ask to inspect for weapons before allowing it to dock.  But then there are those Zionists in Israel who do.  Shame on them.



QUOTE=Roudy;9113523]





montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
Click to expand...

If the blockade is legal and a ship is asked to stop for inspection and doesn't, then sinking it would be legal. It's as simple as that. Your logic is always faulty.[/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Golly gee,* I wonder what the USA would do if some uninvited foreign ship were closing in on our shoreline?*  I sincerely doubt we would kindly just ask to inspect for weapons before allowing it to dock.  But then there are those Zionists in Israel who do.  Shame on them.
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=Roudy;9113523]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The ignoramus has spoken again, trying hard to sound intelligent but failing as usual. Even the anti Israel UN has called the Israeli blockade as LEGAL.
> 
> U*N Report Finds Israeli Blockade legal*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS  A long-awaited United Nations review of Israels 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israels naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the blockade is legal and a ship is asked to stop for inspection and doesn't, then sinking it would be legal. It's as simple as that. Your logic is always faulty.
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

The flotilla was specifically *not* going to Israel.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade may be legal, but sinking neutral shipping carrying humanitarian aid is not.
> 
> 
> 
> If the blockade is legal then when a ship is asked to stop for inspection and doesn't, then sinking it would be legal. It's as simple as that. Your logic is always faulty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your mind is faulty.  I was responding to one of your friends that suggested that neutral ships bringing aid should be torpedoed.
Click to expand...

Neutral ship is one that stops for inspection, and not one who's captain doesn't yell "go back to Auschwitz," over the radio waves like a Nazi asshole, when requested to stop. 

Neutral ship is one that doesn't violently attack soldiers who are landing for inspection, and then throw them over board. 
This ship and it occupants behavior was anything but "neutral".


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> We now pause our regular programming for a brief moment of mental masturbation to the destruction of Israel, and other delusional thoughts.


You think stopping piracy in international waters is destroying Israel, yet accuse me of being "delusional"?

I guess piracy only occurs in Somalia?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Neutral ship is one that stops for inspection, and not one who's captain doesn't yell "go back to Auschwitz," over the radio waves like a Nazi asshole, when requested to stop.


Why would they stop, Israel has no jurisdiction in international waters?



Roudy said:


> Neutral ship is one that doesn't violently attack soldiers who are landing for inspection, and then throw them over board.


What do you expect them to do, when those soldiers start shooting before their even on board?

Maybe the ships' captain should've got on a bullhorn and yelled, _*"We're not the USS Liberty!"*_



Roudy said:


> This ship and it occupants behavior was anything but "neutral".


 You're right, most people are not neutral, when it comes to starving children to further a political agenda.


----------



## Billo_Really

P F Tinmore said:


> The flotilla was specifically *not* going to Israel.


That's a good one!


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> The child repeats his crayola-drawings of several months ago...
> 
> Snicker...


You're accusing me of repeating shit?

That's like Charles Manson bitching about women who are pro-choice.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Stop playing the victim card.


Can't help it.  Most people think someone being shot for bringing food to a starving child, is a victim.



toastman said:


> The blood of every victim is in the hand of those idiot Turks who put this together.


Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey.

And here on planet earth, we consider the one who actually pulled the trigger, as the one responsible for the death.



toastman said:


> And you are asking questions without answering mine.


Well, then allow me to retort...

...What does Marcellus Wallace look like?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Not only was there no aid on the Mavi Marmara, but Gaza doesn't need aid.  It gets everything it wants. Are there pictures of starving Gazans in the media?  Even Hamas admit there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.  The Mavi Marmara, video below, was purely and simply to show they could break the blockade, or become martyrs trying.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The child repeats his crayola-drawings of several months ago...
> 
> Snicker...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're accusing me of repeating shit?
> 
> That's like Charles Manson bitching about women who are pro-choice.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, yes...

Very nice, I'm sure...

Now, take your photo-shopped pictures of retired battleships, and your box of Crayola crayons, and get your ass back to the kiddie table, where you belong... you're bothering the grown-ups.

When you have something intelligent to say about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict... far in the future, after you've finished growing up... come back and find us again.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop playing the victim card.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help it.  Most people think someone being shot for bringing food to a starving child, is a victim.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blood of every victim is in the hand of those idiot Turks who put this together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey.
> 
> And here on planet earth, we consider the one who actually pulled the trigger, as the one responsible for the death.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you are asking questions without answering mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, then allow me to retort...
> 
> ...What does Marcellus Wallace look like?
Click to expand...


Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck. THAT's why they got shot and and killed.
Had they cooperated with Israel, do you think Israel would have fired one shot? NO!

'Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey'

Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.


----------



## Kondor3

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Not only was there no aid on the Mavi Marmara, but *Gaza doesn't need aid*.  It gets everything it wants. Are there pictures of starving Gazans in the media?  *Even Hamas admit there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza*.  The Mavi Marmara, video below, was purely and simply to show they could break the blockade, or become martyrs trying.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYjuDEZw1w&list=PLEC641B26353BBBE8


Shhhhh.... don't tell him _that_... you'll ruin the comedy show that he puts-on when he rambles-on about off-the-wall $hit like that... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




It could even bring him back down to earth for the first time in years... and then we'd lose our _Evening Laugh Festival_ star clown... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




He can't help making-up $hit about Israel and drawing false conclusions about Gaza and putting words in peoples' mouths and slipping into Tourettes Syndrome mode ten times  a day... it's how he's been programmed.


----------



## montelatici

As usual, Zionist propaganda is all these bozos have to contribute now the truth:

"The situation

The blockade has devastated Gaza&#8217;s economy, restricted freedom of movement, and has had severe negative impacts on the ability of ordinary people to access the essential services they need. The blockade is also increasing fragmentation and disrupting economic, social, and political ties between Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.

Exports: In the first ten months of 2013 only 111 commercial export trucks left Gaza, compared to 254 in 2012. This year is set to be the lowest for exports since 2009.
Imports: The Egyptian government has closed most of the tunnels that people used to bring in affordable food, fuel and construction materials.
Agriculture and fishing: Access restrictions continue to have a devastating impact on livelihoods and the economy. Fishermen are prevented from going any further than six nautical miles off the coast, while farmers are not allowed to access much of the fertile land at the edge of the Gaza Strip.
Employment: Unemployment in Gaza is expected to rise to over 40 percent by the end of the year. The construction sector, one of the few industries that had until now managed to grow under the blockade, is falling for the availability of construction materials has dropped to a third of pre-blockade levels.
Infrastructure: With only about 40 percent of needed fuel currently entering Gaza daily, people are struggling to cope with worsening power shortages. Blackouts of 12-16 hours a day are restricting the provision of basic services.
Aid: Over 80 percent of people in Gaza are now in need of humanitarian aid, and 65 percent of families are expected to be food insecure by the end of the year. Two thirds of Gaza&#8217;s population currently receives clean water supply only once every three to four days.
Security: In the past year, Israel has carried out over 300 incidents of border and naval fire &#8211; half of them against fishermen at sea &#8211; and Palestinian factions have fired over 140 homemade rockets towards Israel.
*The government of Israel needs to facilitate a consistent opening of the crossing to allow in essential humanitarian goods so we can keep helping people in need.*

Crisis in Gaza | Oxfam International


----------



## Billo_Really

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Not only was there no aid on the Mavi Marmara, but Gaza doesn't need aid.  It gets everything it wants. Are there pictures of starving Gazans in the media?  Even Hamas admit there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.  The Mavi Marmara, video below, was purely and simply to show they could break the blockade, or become martyrs trying.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYjuDEZw1w&list=PLEC641B26353BBBE8


WTF are you talking about?  You won't even let them fish in their own territorial waters!

Get everything they need, my ass. * xxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx.*


----------



## aris2chat

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Not only was there no aid on the Mavi Marmara, but Gaza doesn't need aid.  It gets everything it wants. Are there pictures of starving Gazans in the media?  Even Hamas admit there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.  The Mavi Marmara, video below, was purely and simply to show they could break the blockade, or become martyrs trying.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYjuDEZw1w&list=PLEC641B26353BBBE8



Palestinians are starving to death in Syria and there are plenty of photos to prove it.  Lets hope Gazans don't re-caption the photos and claim the victims are from gaza, or blame Israel for their demise.  President Assad and his forces are responsible and should be held accountable.

Arabs are starving palestinians.  Syria was already responsible for more palestinian deaths than Jordan, Israel, Egypt.....but hate monger don't care.  It is not the palestinians that matter, but demonizing Israel.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> As usual, Zionist propaganda is all these bozos have to contribute now the truth:
> 
> "The situation
> 
> The blockade has devastated Gazas economy, restricted freedom of movement, and has had severe negative impacts on the ability of ordinary people to access the essential services they need. The blockade is also increasing fragmentation and disrupting economic, social, and political ties between Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Exports: In the first ten months of 2013 only 111 commercial export trucks left Gaza, compared to 254 in 2012. This year is set to be the lowest for exports since 2009.
> Imports: The Egyptian government has closed most of the tunnels that people used to bring in affordable food, fuel and construction materials.
> Agriculture and fishing: Access restrictions continue to have a devastating impact on livelihoods and the economy. Fishermen are prevented from going any further than six nautical miles off the coast, while farmers are not allowed to access much of the fertile land at the edge of the Gaza Strip.
> Employment: Unemployment in Gaza is expected to rise to over 40 percent by the end of the year. The construction sector, one of the few industries that had until now managed to grow under the blockade, is falling for the availability of construction materials has dropped to a third of pre-blockade levels.
> Infrastructure: With only about 40 percent of needed fuel currently entering Gaza daily, people are struggling to cope with worsening power shortages. Blackouts of 12-16 hours a day are restricting the provision of basic services.
> Aid: Over 80 percent of people in Gaza are now in need of humanitarian aid, and 65 percent of families are expected to be food insecure by the end of the year. Two thirds of Gazas population currently receives clean water supply only once every three to four days.
> Security: In the past year, Israel has carried out over 300 incidents of border and naval fire  half of them against fishermen at sea  and Palestinian factions have fired over 140 homemade rockets towards Israel.
> *The government of Israel needs to facilitate a consistent opening of the crossing to allow in essential humanitarian goods so we can keep helping people in need.*
> 
> Crisis in Gaza | Oxfam International



What pro Palestinians call propaganda, people with a brain call the truth.


----------



## Kondor3

Then the blockade is, indeed, having the desired effect. 

Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.

Welcome to your consequences.

Want it to stop?

1. dump Hamas

2. stop firing rockets

Fail to do that, and you may continue to enjoy the consequences that you have brought down upon your own heads.

Whatever you decide will be fine with the other side; either way; a matter of complete indifference to much of the rest of the world, beyond the realm of Islam.



montelatici said:


> As usual, Zionist propaganda is all these bozos have to contribute now the truth:
> 
> "The situation
> 
> The blockade has devastated Gaza&#8217;s economy, restricted freedom of movement, and has had severe negative impacts on the ability of ordinary people to access the essential services they need. The blockade is also increasing fragmentation and disrupting economic, social, and political ties between Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Exports: In the first ten months of 2013 only 111 commercial export trucks left Gaza, compared to 254 in 2012. This year is set to be the lowest for exports since 2009.
> Imports: The Egyptian government has closed most of the tunnels that people used to bring in affordable food, fuel and construction materials.
> Agriculture and fishing: Access restrictions continue to have a devastating impact on livelihoods and the economy. Fishermen are prevented from going any further than six nautical miles off the coast, while farmers are not allowed to access much of the fertile land at the edge of the Gaza Strip.
> Employment: Unemployment in Gaza is expected to rise to over 40 percent by the end of the year. The construction sector, one of the few industries that had until now managed to grow under the blockade, is falling for the availability of construction materials has dropped to a third of pre-blockade levels.
> Infrastructure: With only about 40 percent of needed fuel currently entering Gaza daily, people are struggling to cope with worsening power shortages. Blackouts of 12-16 hours a day are restricting the provision of basic services.
> Aid: Over 80 percent of people in Gaza are now in need of humanitarian aid, and 65 percent of families are expected to be food insecure by the end of the year. Two thirds of Gaza&#8217;s population currently receives clean water supply only once every three to four days.
> Security: In the past year, Israel has carried out over 300 incidents of border and naval fire &#8211; half of them against fishermen at sea &#8211; and Palestinian factions have fired over 140 homemade rockets towards Israel.
> *The government of Israel needs to facilitate a consistent opening of the crossing to allow in essential humanitarian goods so we can keep helping people in need.*
> 
> Crisis in Gaza | Oxfam International


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck. THAT's why they got shot and and killed.


They started shooting before they came on board.



toastman said:


> Had they cooperated with Israel, do you think Israel would have fired one shot? NO!


Why should they cooperate?  They were in international waters. Israel has no jurisdiction there.  Do you think you have a right to go around and tell other people what to do?  Because if you do, you're welcome to come over to my house and try to pull that shit on me under my own roof. I'll show you why that's wrong.




toastman said:


> Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.


Turkey was trying to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, which had nothing to do with Israel and certainly wasn't any of Israel's god-damn business!


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.


Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> When you have something intelligent to say about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict... far in the future, after you've finished growing up... come back and find us again.


I've already posted my argument and it must be an intelligent one, because no one has been able to address the points I made.


----------



## aris2chat

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
Click to expand...


>>legal, democratic election<<?????????

You don't know the middle east very well.......


----------



## Kondor3

The pissants organizing and operating the so-called Gaza Relief Fleet attempted to run a naval blockade.

They got their asses kicked.

That's the way the Real World works.

Stupid little wankers.


----------



## MJB12741

So true.  And has ANYONE heard of a single Palestinian or Palestinian supporter complaint about the Arab country massacre treatment of Palestinians?  

There is a lesson to be learned here for Israel.  After all, we are talking about Palestinians with their Palestinian mentality.  Let us all join together & pray Israel will end their damn Zionist agenda of peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so Palestinian can remain to kill more Israeli's & start treating the Palestinians with the same Arab country love, justice & respect the Palestinians are so well accustomed to & so well deserve.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!







aris2chat said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not only was there no aid on the Mavi Marmara, but Gaza doesn't need aid.  It gets everything it wants. Are there pictures of starving Gazans in the media?  Even Hamas admit there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.  The Mavi Marmara, video below, was purely and simply to show they could break the blockade, or become martyrs trying.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYjuDEZw1w&list=PLEC641B26353BBBE8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are starving to death in Syria and there are plenty of photos to prove it.  Lets hope Gazans don't re-caption the photos and claim the victims are from gaza, or blame Israel for their demise.  President Assad and his forces are responsible and should be held accountable.
> 
> Arabs are starving palestinians.  Syria was already responsible for more palestinian deaths than Jordan, Israel, Egypt.....but hate monger don't care.  It is not the palestinians that matter, but demonizing Israel.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
Click to expand...

It is, if the Israelis _say_ it is.

Which they _did_.

If you want to dispute that, take it up with the IDF.

Or the Egyptians, for that matter.

Meanwhile, enjoy the consequences of 'your' decision.

Oh, by the way...

Let 'em know, when you're ready to say: "Uncle".


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> It is if the Israelis say it is.
> 
> Which they did.
> 
> If you want to dispute that, take it up with the IDF.
> 
> Or the Egyptians, for that matter.


Yeah, that's how grown ups talk?


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is if the Israelis say it is.
> 
> Which they did.
> 
> If you want to dispute that, take it up with the IDF.
> 
> Or the Egyptians, for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's how grown ups talk?
Click to expand...

It's how the Real Work works, Junior...

Or had you not noticed that that is the present extant state of affairs, and that it has been thus for some years now?


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck. THAT's why they got shot and and killed.
> 
> 
> 
> They started shooting before they came on board.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had they cooperated with Israel, do you think Israel would have fired one shot? NO!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why should they cooperate?  They were in international waters. Israel has no jurisdiction there.  Do you think you have a right to go around and tell other people what to do?  Because if you do, you're welcome to come over to my house and try to pull that shit on me under my own roof. I'll show you why that's wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Turkey was trying to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, which had nothing to do with Israel and certainly wasn't any of Israel's god-damn business!
Click to expand...


EVERYTHING that passes through Gazan waters is Israel's business. That's why there was a blockade! 
If they just want to give Gaza aid, why did they try to break the blockade?? Why didn't they follow the other ships that went to Ashdod port??

Oh I know why, because they wanted to provoke Israel for a media stunt. 
And if you beat on and stab naval commandos who are doing their job, you're going to get yourself killed. The same would have happened in any country.
These low IQ Turkish idiots reaped what they sowed.


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck. THAT's why they got shot and and killed.
> 
> 
> 
> They started shooting before they came on board.
> 
> Why should they cooperate?  They were in international waters. Israel has no jurisdiction there.  Do you think you have a right to go around and tell other people what to do?  Because if you do, you're welcome to come over to my house and try to pull that shit on me under my own roof. I'll show you why that's wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Turkey was trying to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, which had nothing to do with Israel and certainly wasn't any of Israel's god-damn business!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> EVERYTHING that passes through Gazan waters is Israel's business. That's why there was a blockade!
> If they just want to give Gaza aid, why did they try to break the blockade?? Why didn't they follow the other ships that went to Ashdod port??
> 
> Oh I know why, because they wanted to provoke Israel for a media stunt.
> And if you beat on and stab naval commandos who are doing their job, you're going to get yourself killed. The same would have happened in any country.
> These low IQ Turkish idiots reaped what they sowed.
Click to expand...

Not to mention having a cargo manifest that included considerable quantities of construction materials that the Israelis and Egyptians had proscribed, because the Gazans had been using such materials to reinforce tunnels crossing the perimeters of Gaza into both Israel in the north and Egypt in the south. Not the brightest crayons in the box, those Turkish (and allied) activists...


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is if the Israelis say it is.
> 
> Which they did.
> 
> If you want to dispute that, take it up with the IDF.
> 
> Or the Egyptians, for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's how grown ups talk?
Click to expand...


No, grown ups suggest that the U.S military send marines to attack Israel.


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is if the Israelis say it is.
> 
> Which they did.
> 
> If you want to dispute that, take it up with the IDF.
> 
> Or the Egyptians, for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's how grown ups talk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, grown ups suggest that the U.S military send marines to attack Israel.
Click to expand...








( _don't forget the retired photo-shopped battleships!_ )


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's how grown ups talk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, grown ups suggest that the U.S military send marines to attack Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( _don't forget the retired photo-shopped battleships!_ )
Click to expand...


How can anyone forget that????


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you have something intelligent to say about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict... far in the future, after you've finished growing up... come back and find us again.
> 
> 
> 
> I've already posted my argument and it must be an intelligent one, because no one has been able to address the points I made.
Click to expand...

Turnspeak and Taqiyyah don't need to be addressed. Waste of bandwidth, you always say.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> We now pause our regular programming for a brief moment of mental masturbation to the destruction of Israel, and other delusional thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> You think stopping piracy in international waters is destroying Israel, yet accuse me of being "delusional"?
> 
> I guess piracy only occurs in Somalia?
Click to expand...

You think wrong.  The blockade was legal, the boat was asked to stop and it didn't, provoking an "incident" with the Israelis.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> As usual, Zionist propaganda is all these bozos have to contribute now the truth:
> 
> "The situation
> 
> The blockade has devastated Gaza&#8217;s economy, restricted freedom of movement, and has had severe negative impacts on the ability of ordinary people to access the essential services they need. The blockade is also increasing fragmentation and disrupting economic, social, and political ties between Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Exports: In the first ten months of 2013 only 111 commercial export trucks left Gaza, compared to 254 in 2012. This year is set to be the lowest for exports since 2009.
> Imports: The Egyptian government has closed most of the tunnels that people used to bring in affordable food, fuel and construction materials.
> Agriculture and fishing: Access restrictions continue to have a devastating impact on livelihoods and the economy. Fishermen are prevented from going any further than six nautical miles off the coast, while farmers are not allowed to access much of the fertile land at the edge of the Gaza Strip.
> Employment: Unemployment in Gaza is expected to rise to over 40 percent by the end of the year. The construction sector, one of the few industries that had until now managed to grow under the blockade, is falling for the availability of construction materials has dropped to a third of pre-blockade levels.
> Infrastructure: With only about 40 percent of needed fuel currently entering Gaza daily, people are struggling to cope with worsening power shortages. Blackouts of 12-16 hours a day are restricting the provision of basic services.
> Aid: Over 80 percent of people in Gaza are now in need of humanitarian aid, and 65 percent of families are expected to be food insecure by the end of the year. Two thirds of Gaza&#8217;s population currently receives clean water supply only once every three to four days.
> Security: In the past year, Israel has carried out over 300 incidents of border and naval fire &#8211; half of them against fishermen at sea &#8211; and Palestinian factions have fired over 140 homemade rockets towards Israel.
> *The government of Israel needs to facilitate a consistent opening of the crossing to allow in essential humanitarian goods so we can keep helping people in need.*
> 
> Crisis in Gaza | Oxfam International


OXFAM?!  Ha ha ha.


----------



## MJB12741

Perhaps the Palestinians & their supporters should take a good look at what Hamas has done to get them massacred.  Oh well, at least Palestinians will always be Palestinians.


A warning to Palestinians: Hamas is hazardous to your health | Human Events




Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, Zionist propaganda is all these bozos have to contribute now the truth:
> 
> "The situation
> 
> The blockade has devastated Gazas economy, restricted freedom of movement, and has had severe negative impacts on the ability of ordinary people to access the essential services they need. The blockade is also increasing fragmentation and disrupting economic, social, and political ties between Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.
> 
> Exports: In the first ten months of 2013 only 111 commercial export trucks left Gaza, compared to 254 in 2012. This year is set to be the lowest for exports since 2009.
> Imports: The Egyptian government has closed most of the tunnels that people used to bring in affordable food, fuel and construction materials.
> Agriculture and fishing: Access restrictions continue to have a devastating impact on livelihoods and the economy. Fishermen are prevented from going any further than six nautical miles off the coast, while farmers are not allowed to access much of the fertile land at the edge of the Gaza Strip.
> Employment: Unemployment in Gaza is expected to rise to over 40 percent by the end of the year. The construction sector, one of the few industries that had until now managed to grow under the blockade, is falling for the availability of construction materials has dropped to a third of pre-blockade levels.
> Infrastructure: With only about 40 percent of needed fuel currently entering Gaza daily, people are struggling to cope with worsening power shortages. Blackouts of 12-16 hours a day are restricting the provision of basic services.
> Aid: Over 80 percent of people in Gaza are now in need of humanitarian aid, and 65 percent of families are expected to be food insecure by the end of the year. Two thirds of Gazas population currently receives clean water supply only once every three to four days.
> Security: In the past year, Israel has carried out over 300 incidents of border and naval fire  half of them against fishermen at sea  and Palestinian factions have fired over 140 homemade rockets towards Israel.
> *The government of Israel needs to facilitate a consistent opening of the crossing to allow in essential humanitarian goods so we can keep helping people in need.*
> 
> Crisis in Gaza | Oxfam International
> 
> 
> 
> OXFAM?!  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YyuujIgIZE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YyuujIgIZE[/ame]


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YyuujIgIZE



Makes one weep.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> You think wrong.  The blockade was legal, the boat was asked to stop and it didn't, provoking an "incident" with the Israelis.


And when are you going to catch the fucking clue you cannot stop a ship in international waters?

The blockade is a war crime.  I've ripped your argument to shreds more than once, but you lack the maturity to deal with this like a responsible adult.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> No, grown ups suggest that the U.S military send marines to attack Israel.


That's what we did with the last country that tried this shit.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> EVERYTHING that passes through Gazan waters is Israel's business. That's why there was a blockade!
> If they just want to give Gaza aid, why did they try to break the blockade?? Why didn't they follow the other ships that went to Ashdod port??
> 
> Oh I know why, because they wanted to provoke Israel for a media stunt.
> And if you beat on and stab naval commandos who are doing their job, you're going to get yourself killed. The same would have happened in any country.
> These low IQ Turkish idiots reaped what they sowed.


Why don't you grow a pair and address what I said?

I answered your questions, but you won't answer mine.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> EVERYTHING that passes through Gazan waters is Israel's business. That's why there was a blockade!
> If they just want to give Gaza aid, why did they try to break the blockade?? Why didn't they follow the other ships that went to Ashdod port??
> 
> Oh I know why, because they wanted to provoke Israel for a media stunt.
> And if you beat on and stab naval commandos who are doing their job, you're going to get yourself killed. The same would have happened in any country.
> These low IQ Turkish idiots reaped what they sowed.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you grow a pair and address what I said?
> 
> I answered your questions, but you won't answer mine.
Click to expand...


You did not answer what I asked..


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think wrong.  The blockade was legal, the boat was asked to stop and it didn't, provoking an "incident" with the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> And when are you going to catch the fucking clue you cannot stop a ship in international waters?...
Click to expand...

It is legal to stop a ship on the high seas when its intent is clear to cross a blockade line.

The so-called Gaza Flotilla had clearly declared that intent long before they sailed, and reiterated it at sailing time, and beyond.

The United States interdicted Soviet vessels on the high seas far outside the actual perimeter-line of the blockade of Cuba in 1962.

JFK did it.

So can the Israelis.



> ...The blockade is a war crime...


There are many arguments supporting and contesting the legality of the blackade.

War-crimes status is not one of them, amongst the sane and objective.



> ...I've ripped your argument to shreds more than once...


Unlikely. You have demonstrated very little talent in that regard throughout your tenure here.



> ...but you lack the maturity to deal with this like a responsible adult.


Pot, meet kettle.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neutral ship is one that stops for inspection, and not one who's captain doesn't yell "go back to Auschwitz," over the radio waves like a Nazi asshole, when requested to stop.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would they stop, Israel has no jurisdiction in international waters?
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neutral ship is one that doesn't violently attack soldiers who are landing for inspection, and then throw them over board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you expect them to do, when those soldiers start shooting before their even on board?
> 
> Maybe the ships' captain should've got on a bullhorn and yelled, _*"We're not the USS Liberty!"*_
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This ship and it occupants behavior was anything but "neutral".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right, most people are not neutral, when it comes to starving children to further a political agenda.
Click to expand...


The system will not allow me to give you a positive rep, so...


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop playing the victim card.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help it.  Most people think someone being shot for bringing food to a starving child, is a victim.
> 
> Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey.
> 
> And here on planet earth, we consider the one who actually pulled the trigger, as the one responsible for the death.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you are asking questions without answering mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, then allow me to retort...
> 
> ...What does Marcellus Wallace look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck.* THAT's why they got shot and and killed.
> Had they cooperated with Israel, do you think Israel would have fired one shot? NO!
> 
> 'Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey'
> 
> Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.
Click to expand...


So, what did the assholes expect when they attacked?

Flowers and candy?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help it.  Most people think someone being shot for bringing food to a starving child, is a victim.
> 
> Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey.
> 
> And here on planet earth, we consider the one who actually pulled the trigger, as the one responsible for the death.
> 
> Well, then allow me to retort...
> 
> ...What does Marcellus Wallace look like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck.* THAT's why they got shot and and killed.
> Had they cooperated with Israel, do you think Israel would have fired one shot? NO!
> 
> 'Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey'
> 
> Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, what did the assholes expect when they attacked?
> 
> Flowers and candy?
Click to expand...


Why would you hit a trained naval commando?? 

What did the low IQ morons expect, paradise and virgins?

You still haven't provided a valid argument for your case..


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
Click to expand...


Hamas is not a terrorist organization in Palestine they were elected.

Third grade name calling will not change that.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas is not a terrorist organization in Palestine they were elected.
> 
> Third grade name calling will not change that.
Click to expand...


Hamas IS a terrorist organization, and calling them so isn't name calling..

What a ridiculous thing to say (the 3rd grade name calling)


----------



## MJB12741

Isn't it just awful how Israel has killed so many more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israeli's?   Gosh I wonder if now might be a good time for the Palestinians to end their rocket missile attacks on Israel so Israel won't have to keep on retaliating to keep this trend going?






P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help it.  Most people think someone being shot for bringing food to a starving child, is a victim.
> 
> Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey.
> 
> And here on planet earth, we consider the one who actually pulled the trigger, as the one responsible for the death.
> 
> Well, then allow me to retort...
> 
> ...What does Marcellus Wallace look like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck.* THAT's why they got shot and and killed.
> Had they cooperated with Israel, do you think Israel would have fired one shot? NO!
> 
> 'Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey'
> 
> Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, what did the assholes expect when they attacked?
> 
> Flowers and candy?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is, if the Israelis _say_ it is.
> 
> Which they _did_.
> 
> If you want to dispute that, take it up with the IDF.
> 
> Or the Egyptians, for that matter.
> 
> Meanwhile, enjoy the consequences of 'your' decision.
> 
> Oh, by the way...
> 
> Let 'em know, when you're ready to say: "Uncle".
Click to expand...




> *It is, if the Israelis say it is.*



Whoa, well smell them!


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YyuujIgIZE


Maybe Arab animals shouldn't have attacked Israel, eh?  Narrated by Hanan Nazi Ashrawi. Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elect a Terrorist Organization to lead you, and continue to bombard our (side) civilian areas with rockets, then suffer the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas is not a terrorist organization in Palestine they were elected.
> 
> Third grade name calling will not change that.
Click to expand...

So the US govt. And all of Europe are engaging in third grade name calling by labeling Hamas a terrorist organization? What planet do you live on?  Get a grip on yourself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Uhh, you keep omitting the fact that the soldiers were being beaten and etabbed and thrown on the lower deck.* THAT's why they got shot and and killed.
> Had they cooperated with Israel, do you think Israel would have fired one shot? NO!
> 
> 'Israel was the one who decided to shoot, not Turkey'
> 
> Turkey was the one who decided to break the blockade and start a fight, not Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what did the assholes expect when they attacked?
> 
> Flowers and candy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Why would you hit a trained naval commando?? *
> 
> What did the low IQ morons expect, paradise and virgins?
> 
> You still haven't provided a valid argument for your case..
Click to expand...


Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?

Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.


----------



## Roudy

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think wrong.  The blockade was legal, the boat was asked to stop and it didn't, provoking an "incident" with the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> And when are you going to catch the fucking clue you cannot stop a ship in international waters?...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is legal to stop a ship on the high seas when its intent is clear to cross a blockade line.
> 
> The so-called Gaza Flotilla had clearly declared that intent long before they sailed, and reiterated it at sailing time, and beyond.
> 
> The United States interdicted Soviet vessels on the high seas far outside the actual perimeter-line of the blockade of Cuba in 1962.
> 
> JFK did it.
> 
> So can the Israelis.
> 
> 
> There are many arguments supporting and contesting the legality of the blackade.
> 
> War-crimes status is not one of them, amongst the sane and objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I've ripped your argument to shreds more than once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unlikely. You have demonstrated very little talent in that regard throughout your tenure here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but you lack the maturity to deal with this like a responsible adult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pot, meet kettle.
Click to expand...

Yada yada yada.  Legal mind you're not.  Get your elementary school diploma first and then  come back to discuss the legality of what Israel did.  I promise I will go easy on you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is not a terrorist organization in Palestine they were elected.
> 
> Third grade name calling will not change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the US govt. And all of Europe are engaging in third grade name calling by labeling Hamas a terrorist organization? What planet do you live on?  Get a grip on yourself.
Click to expand...


Do you always side with the political elites?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what did the assholes expect when they attacked?
> 
> Flowers and candy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Why would you hit a trained naval commando?? *
> 
> What did the low IQ morons expect, paradise and virgins?
> 
> You still haven't provided a valid argument for your case..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
Click to expand...

And conversely when you ignore a warning by a naval blockade to stop, you deserve to get your butt shot out of the water.  In the real world that's how it works. 

Years ago, I had to live under martial law which imposed a curfew from 8 PM to to 7 AM.  That meant if you're caught outside during those hours and a soldier asks you to stop and surrender and you don't, you get your ass shot.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is not a terrorist organization in Palestine they were elected.
> 
> Third grade name calling will not change that.
> 
> 
> 
> So the US govt. And all of Europe are engaging in third grade name calling by labeling Hamas a terrorist organization? What planet do you live on?  Get a grip on yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you always side with the political elites?
Click to expand...

Political elites? Ha ha ha. What a joke you are. So you chose to not follow the laws of the country you live in.  Good luck in federal prison, I hope you find a good boyfriend. Best wishes.

Do you always side with Islamic terrorists and enemies of America?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why would you hit a trained naval commando?? *
> 
> What did the low IQ morons expect, paradise and virgins?
> 
> You still haven't provided a valid argument for your case..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And conversely when you ignore a warning by a naval blockade to stop, you deserve to get your butt shot out of the water.  In the real world that's how it works.
> 
> Years ago, I had to live under martial law which imposed a curfew from 8 PM to to 7 AM.  That meant if you're caught outside during those hours and a soldier asks you to stop and surrender and don't, you get your ass shot.
Click to expand...


Indeed, despots are like that.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what did the assholes expect when they attacked?
> 
> Flowers and candy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Why would you hit a trained naval commando?? *
> 
> What did the low IQ morons expect, paradise and virgins?
> 
> You still haven't provided a valid argument for your case..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
Click to expand...


They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough. 

But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the US govt. And all of Europe are engaging in third grade name calling by labeling Hamas a terrorist organization? What planet do you live on?  Get a grip on yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you always side with the political elites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Political elites? Ha ha ha. What a joke you are. So you chose to not follow the laws of the country you live in.  Good luck in federal prison, I hope you find a good boyfriend. Best wishes.
> 
> Do you always side with Islamic terrorists and enemies of America?
Click to expand...


These people lied us into Iraq, lied us into Libya, lied us into Syria, and are lying us into Iran.

And you believe them.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> And conversely when you ignore a warning by a naval blockade to stop, you deserve to get your butt shot out of the water.  In the real world that's how it works.
> 
> Years ago, I had to live under martial law which imposed a curfew from 8 PM to to 7 AM.  That meant if you're caught outside during those hours and a soldier asks you to stop and surrender and don't, you get your ass shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, despots are like that.
Click to expand...

Had nothing to do with despotism.  If the shit hits the fan here in the US they will impose martial law as well.  Only a suicidal nincompoop will ignore a warning coming from the military.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why would you hit a trained naval commando?? *
> 
> What did the low IQ morons expect, paradise and virgins?
> 
> You still haven't provided a valid argument for your case..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough.
> 
> But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.
Click to expand...


OK but you can't just lay down for the thugs. Some people have principles.


----------



## Sally

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why would you hit a trained naval commando?? *
> 
> What did the low IQ morons expect, paradise and virgins?
> 
> You still haven't provided a valid argument for your case..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough.
> 
> But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.
Click to expand...


I agree too.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo]Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you always side with the political elites?
> 
> 
> 
> Political elites? Ha ha ha. What a joke you are. So you chose to not follow the laws of the country you live in.  Good luck in federal prison, I hope you find a good boyfriend. Best wishes.
> 
> Do you always side with Islamic terrorists and enemies of America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These people lied us into Iraq, lied us into Libya, lied us into Syria, and are lying us into Iran.
> 
> And you believe them.
Click to expand...

Ok so the US govt was wrong about many things, let's just ignore all the laws and start doing business with Al Queda.

You are a fine example of Palestinian Mentality.   

Tell you what, get yourself caught supporting Hamas, and see what the judge thinks about the law being "childish name calling" and "the US was wrong about Iraq, so that means I can do business with a terrorist organization".  Ha ha ha

Make sure you let us know how that defense works out for you, okay?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sally said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough.
> 
> But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree too.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo]Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


The title is a lie.

It was the soldiers who attacked the Mavi Marmara.

Whose propaganda video is this?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Political elites? Ha ha ha. What a joke you are. So you chose to not follow the laws of the country you live in.  Good luck in federal prison, I hope you find a good boyfriend. Best wishes.
> 
> Do you always side with Islamic terrorists and enemies of America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These people lied us into Iraq, lied us into Libya, lied us into Syria, and are lying us into Iran.
> 
> And you believe them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok so the US govt was wrong about many things, let's just ignore all the laws and start doing business with Al Queda.
> 
> You are a fine example of Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> Tell you what, get yourself caught supporting Hamas, and see what the judge thinks about the law being "childish name calling" and "the US was wrong about Iraq, so that means I can do business with a terrorist organization".  Ha ha ha
> 
> Make sure you let us know how that defense works out for you, okay?
Click to expand...


I just find it weird that you support proven liars. You believe every lie they tell you.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the trained naval commandos who were attacking unarmed civilians?
> 
> Anyone who attacks deserves to get what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough.
> 
> But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK but you can't just lay down for the thugs. Some people have principles.
Click to expand...


Except they're not thugs, but soldiers protecting a naval blockade. Bad move by the Turks.
I bet you if the same scenario happened anywhere in the world, no one would make a big deal like they are with Israel.

Pro Palestinians don't care how or why people killed by the died. The only thing that matters to you guys is that they were killed by Israeli soldiers, so it automatically means Israel is in the wrong.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough.
> 
> But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree too.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo]Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The title is a lie.
> 
> It was the soldiers who attacked the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> Whose propaganda video is this?
Click to expand...

Get over it, the captain kept responding with a "go back to Aushwitz" to the Israeli warnings.  Humanitarian mission my ass!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree too.
> 
> Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The title is a lie.
> 
> It was the soldiers who attacked the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> Whose propaganda video is this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get over it, the captain kept responding with a "go back to Aushwitz" to the Israeli warnings.  Humanitarian mission my ass!
Click to expand...


You can believe that lie if you like. The flotilla kept recordings of all correspondence with Israel and that was added afterwards by Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough.
> 
> But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK but you can't just lay down for the thugs. Some people have principles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except they're not thugs, but soldiers protecting a naval blockade. Bad move by the Turks.
> *I bet you if the same scenario happened anywhere in the world, no one would make a big deal like they are with Israel.*
> 
> Pro Palestinians don't care how or why people killed by the died. The only thing that matters to you guys is that they were killed by Israeli soldiers, so it automatically means Israel is in the wrong.
Click to expand...


What other country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK but you can't just lay down for the thugs. Some people have principles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except they're not thugs, but soldiers protecting a naval blockade. Bad move by the Turks.
> *I bet you if the same scenario happened anywhere in the world, no one would make a big deal like they are with Israel.*
> 
> Pro Palestinians don't care how or why people killed by the died. The only thing that matters to you guys is that they were killed by Israeli soldiers, so it automatically means Israel is in the wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What other country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers?
Click to expand...


Google "country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers"
and see what a jackass you have just made of yourself.


----------



## Hossfly

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except they're not thugs, but soldiers protecting a naval blockade. Bad move by the Turks.
> *I bet you if the same scenario happened anywhere in the world, no one would make a big deal like they are with Israel.*
> 
> Pro Palestinians don't care how or why people killed by the died. The only thing that matters to you guys is that they were killed by Israeli soldiers, so it automatically means Israel is in the wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What other country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Google "country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers"
> and see what a jackass you have just made of yourself.
Click to expand...

Tinmore will say: "This doesn't happen in Palestine".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except they're not thugs, but soldiers protecting a naval blockade. Bad move by the Turks.
> *I bet you if the same scenario happened anywhere in the world, no one would make a big deal like they are with Israel.*
> 
> Pro Palestinians don't care how or why people killed by the died. The only thing that matters to you guys is that they were killed by Israeli soldiers, so it automatically means Israel is in the wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What other country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Google "country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers"
> and see what a jackass you have just made of yourself.
Click to expand...



    Angola: 58 (mostly as a result of anti-aircraft attacks on two UN planes by UNITA in 1998 and 1999 and by landmines)
    Afghanistan: 36
    Iraq: 32
    Sudan: 29
    Democratic Republic of the Congo: 18
    Rwanda: 17
    Somalia: 16
    Burundi: 11
    Palestinian Authority: 7
    Uganda: 7
    Serbia and Montenegro (Kosovo): 5
    Liberia: 5

Attacks on humanitarian workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A brief search on aid workers killed in Palestine revealed that they were killed by Israel.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google "country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers"
> and see what a jackass you have just made of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Angola: 58 (mostly as a result of anti-aircraft attacks on two UN planes by UNITA in 1998 and 1999 and by landmines)
> Afghanistan: 36
> Iraq: 32
> Sudan: 29
> Democratic Republic of the Congo: 18
> Rwanda: 17
> Somalia: 16
> Burundi: 11
> Palestinian Authority: 7
> Uganda: 7
> Serbia and Montenegro (Kosovo): 5
> Liberia: 5
> 
> Attacks on humanitarian workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A brief search on aid workers killed in Palestine revealed that they were killed by Israel.
Click to expand...


Did you know that everyone ever killed was killed by Israel?
True story.

Jackass.


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YyuujIgIZE



same in Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt and Syria because the muslims chose violence.

Commonality for the diminishing isolated christian communities?  Hint, it wasn't Israel or judaism


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google "country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers"
> and see what a jackass you have just made of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Angola: 58 (mostly as a result of anti-aircraft attacks on two UN planes by UNITA in 1998 and 1999 and by landmines)
> Afghanistan: 36
> Iraq: 32
> Sudan: 29
> Democratic Republic of the Congo: 18
> Rwanda: 17
> Somalia: 16
> Burundi: 11
> Palestinian Authority: 7
> Uganda: 7
> Serbia and Montenegro (Kosovo): 5
> Liberia: 5
> 
> Attacks on humanitarian workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A brief search on aid workers killed in Palestine revealed that they were killed by Israel.
Click to expand...

See? I just got done telling the folks you would deny any aid workers being killed in Palestine. Time for bed, you old codger.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google "country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers"
> and see what a jackass you have just made of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angola: 58 (mostly as a result of anti-aircraft attacks on two UN planes by UNITA in 1998 and 1999 and by landmines)
> Afghanistan: 36
> Iraq: 32
> Sudan: 29
> Democratic Republic of the Congo: 18
> Rwanda: 17
> Somalia: 16
> Burundi: 11
> Palestinian Authority: 7
> Uganda: 7
> Serbia and Montenegro (Kosovo): 5
> Liberia: 5
> 
> Attacks on humanitarian workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A brief search on aid workers killed in Palestine revealed that they were killed by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See? I just got done telling the folks you would deny any aid workers being killed in Palestine. Time for bed,* you old codger*.
Click to expand...


What happened to old fart?

They mentioned some humanitarian workers killed like Rachel Corrie and Tom Harndel (killed by Israel) some UN and others killed by Israeli air strikes.

That list shows that Israel has some good company. Outstanding countries all.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whomever they elect in a legal, democratic election, is none of your god-damn business!
> 
> 
> 
> It is, if the Israelis _say_ it is.
> 
> Which they _did_.
> 
> If you want to dispute that, take it up with the IDF.
> 
> Or the Egyptians, for that matter.
> 
> Meanwhile, enjoy the consequences of 'your' decision.
> 
> Oh, by the way...
> 
> Let 'em know, when you're ready to say: "Uncle".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It is, if the Israelis say it is.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whoa, well smell them!
Click to expand...

If you say that it is none of their business...

And the Israelis say that it is...

One opinion or the other will manifest as dominant, in conditions extant in the Real World...

Any luck in positioning your opinion as the operative and dominant one?

Thought not.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The title is a lie.
> 
> It was the soldiers who attacked the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> Whose propaganda video is this?
> 
> 
> 
> Get over it, the captain kept responding with a "go back to Aushwitz" to the Israeli warnings.  Humanitarian mission my ass!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can believe that lie if you like. The flotilla kept recordings of all correspondence with Israel and that was added afterwards by Israel.
Click to expand...

Sure sure. A ship full of radicals, Jihadist Islamists,  guns and ammo, who's captain yells back back "go back to aushwitz" to the Israeli requests to turn back.  And of course we know that Gaza really needed all those "humanitarian" necessities.  Heh heh heh.


----------



## MJB12741

It was the Mavi Mamara that was approaching Israel's shoreline without approval.  Not too bight a decision, eh Tinmore?





P F Tinmore said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were beating soldiers, who carry guns, with batons and knives. That's not the time to be a hero or act tough.
> 
> But I do agree with you when you say that anyone who attacks deserves to grt what he gets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree too.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo]Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The title is a lie.
> 
> It was the soldiers who attacked the Mavi Marmara.
> 
> Whose propaganda video is this?
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Yes & I'll bet Tinmore didn't even know that Snoopy shot down the Red Baron.





Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google "country has attacked and killed civilian aid workers"
> and see what a jackass you have just made of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angola: 58 (mostly as a result of anti-aircraft attacks on two UN planes by UNITA in 1998 and 1999 and by landmines)
> Afghanistan: 36
> Iraq: 32
> Sudan: 29
> Democratic Republic of the Congo: 18
> Rwanda: 17
> Somalia: 16
> Burundi: 11
> Palestinian Authority: 7
> Uganda: 7
> Serbia and Montenegro (Kosovo): 5
> Liberia: 5
> 
> Attacks on humanitarian workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A brief search on aid workers killed in Palestine revealed that they were killed by Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you know that everyone ever killed was killed by Israel?
> True story.
> 
> Jackass.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> It was the Mavi Mamara that was approaching Israel's shoreline without approval.  Not too bight a decision, eh Tinmore?


The ship was boarded in international waters, you fucking moron!

And the Gaza coastline, is not Israel's shoreline.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> If you say that it is none of their business...
> 
> And the Israelis say that it is...
> 
> One opinion or the other will manifest as dominant, in conditions extant in the Real World...
> 
> Any luck in positioning your opinion as the operative and dominant one?
> 
> Thought not.


Israel's nothing more than a schoolyard bully.  And all bully's suffer the same fate on a long enough timeline. Sooner or later, they run into someone they can't bully and whined up getting their ass whipped.

That's what happened to Germany when they thought they could do anything they wanted and that's what will eventually happen to Israel.  

You know, at one time, I used to think "might made right", but I was 15.  If you think it's cool to walk around like your some big bad ass doing whatever you fucking please, then you need to grow up.


----------



## Roudy

Blah blah blah.  It's pretty obvious that the bullies and thugs are Muslims and their supporters.  

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## MJB12741

The Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination outside of any influence or intervention by Israel.  The question is WHERE can this be when no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?


----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


>


----------



## MJB12741

Do you think Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?






MJB12741 said:


> The Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination outside of any influence or intervention by Israel.  The question is WHERE can this be when no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?


----------



## Roudy

MJB12741 said:


> The Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination outside of any influence or intervention by Israel.  The question is WHERE can this be when no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?


They got their own state in 1922, it was later called Jordan, but instead, they choose violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Do you think Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination outside of any influence or intervention by Israel.  The question is WHERE can this be when no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?
Click to expand...


Sure, they would fit right in.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaGT8kYC9bg]Speed Sisters - The film. Trailer (in production) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think Mecca might be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination outside of any influence or intervention by Israel.  The question is WHERE can this be when no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, they would fit right in.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaGT8kYC9bg]Speed Sisters - The film. Trailer (in production) - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...

Allah be praised!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

Since you asked.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIG0TO-Il0s]BBC Proms East West Harmony: Palestine Strings And Nigel Kennedy! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sally

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> Since you asked.
> 
> BBC Proms East West Harmony: Palestine Strings And Nigel Kennedy! - YouTube



I am sure there are many talented people whose roots are in the Middle East, but there was once an article in the Los Angeles Times by a reported based in Germany telling how the Palestinians were protesting with the NeoNazis in Germany against Israel.  If you feel like spending some money to reach the story in the Los Angeles Times archives, the article is entitled East Meets West.


----------



## Kondor3

Roudy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians need their own Palestinian State with self determination outside of any influence or intervention by Israel.  The question is WHERE can this be when no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?
> 
> 
> 
> They got their own state in 1922, it was later called Jordan, but instead, they choose violence.
Click to expand...

True enough.

The Arabs already got their share.

The Jews are now in the process of getting theirs.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> Since you asked.
> 
> BBC Proms East West Harmony: Palestine Strings And Nigel Kennedy! - YouTube



The Palestinians are a thorn in the worlds side...


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians?
> 
> Since you asked.
> 
> BBC Proms East West Harmony: Palestine Strings And Nigel Kennedy! - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are a thorn in the worlds side...
Click to expand...

More like a boil on its bum...


----------



## aris2chat

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you say that it is none of their business...
> 
> And the Israelis say that it is...
> 
> One opinion or the other will manifest as dominant, in conditions extant in the Real World...
> 
> Any luck in positioning your opinion as the operative and dominant one?
> 
> Thought not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's nothing more than a schoolyard bully.  And all bully's suffer the same fate on a long enough timeline. Sooner or later, they run into someone they can't bully and whined up getting their ass whipped.
> 
> That's what happened to Germany when they thought they could do anything they wanted and that's what will eventually happen to Israel.
> 
> You know, at one time, I used to think "might made right", but I was 15.  If you think it's cool to walk around like your some big bad ass doing whatever you fucking please, then you need to grow up.
Click to expand...


To reach gaza one must cross Cyprian and either Egyptian or Israeli waters.  The took place within Israel's limits.







>>A blockade is a recognized legal construct, and must be formally declared, for a plausible reason, and be effectively enforced.<<


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## montelatici




----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


>



What is it they say...."If the COMBAT BOOT FITS.....


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  FUNNY, FUNNY FUNNY!  Here we have it folks, proof of the deranged mentally ill mind of Monte.  Heh Heh!  





montelatici said:


>


----------



## montelatici

Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.


----------



## montelatici




----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


>








 Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters


----------



## montelatici

Vigilante said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
Click to expand...


After they had killed many Palestinian women and children, of course.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.



And we know that there are anti-Semites all over the world, and there are those anti-Semites who also happen to be cartoonists.


----------



## montelatici

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we know that there are anti-Semites all over the world, and there are those anti-Semites who also happen to be cartoonists.
Click to expand...


No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they had killed many Palestinian women and children, of course.
Click to expand...


Now Haniya is going to show us a picture of Muslim soldiers, after they have killed innocent women and children, weeping over a dead comrade.  There should be plenty of these pictures coming out in places such as Syria.  Say, do you think that members of the Pakistani Army wept if one of their comrades was killed when they helped the previous King of Jordan kill thousands of Palestinians in that incident known as Black September?


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they had killed many Palestinian women and children, of course.
Click to expand...


Yes, the muslim dogs will even sacrifice their women and children for a POLITICAL POINT that can be expanded across to the enablers friends.... But YOU knew this, and try to make it look like the muslim attack on Jews is anything but.... Once a dog.....


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we know that there are anti-Semites all over the world, and there are those anti-Semites who also happen to be cartoonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
Click to expand...


You really are a laugh a minute, Haniya.  You must think people don't know what is going on.  Meanwhile, don't you think the world should be against the Muslims?  After all, if they read the newspapers or watch the news on T.V., they become aware of Muslims murdering Christians, Budfdhists, Hindus and even Muslims of different sects?


----------



## montelatici

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> And we know that there are anti-Semites all over the world, and there are those anti-Semites who also happen to be cartoonists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really are a laugh a minute, Haniya.  You must think people don't know what is going on.  Meanwhile, don't you think the world should be against the Muslims?  After all, if they read the newspapers or watch the news on T.V., they become aware of Muslims murdering Christians, Budfdhists, Hindus and even Muslims of different sects?
Click to expand...


Why should the world be against Muslims, or Christians or Jews or Hindus or people of any religion?  I think you haven't a clue what is going on.  You just hate Muslims and it clouds your logic.  You are basically a racist.


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really are a laugh a minute, Haniya. You must think people don't know what is going on. Meanwhile, don't you think the world should be against the Muslims? After all, if they read the newspapers or watch the news on T.V., they become aware of Muslims murdering Christians, Budfdhists, Hindus and even Muslims of different sects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should the world be against Muslims, or Christians or Jews or Hindus or people of any religion? I think you haven't a clue what is going on. You just hate Muslims and it clouds your logic. You are basically a racist.
Click to expand...



 Muslims Destroyed Hindu Kali Temple


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really are a laugh a minute, Haniya.  You must think people don't know what is going on.  Meanwhile, don't you think the world should be against the Muslims?  After all, if they read the newspapers or watch the news on T.V., they become aware of Muslims murdering Christians, Budfdhists, Hindus and even Muslims of different sects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should the world be against Muslims, or Christians or Jews or Hindus or people of any religion?  I think you haven't a clue what is going on.  You just hate Muslims and it clouds your logic.  You are basically a racist.
Click to expand...


Give it a rest.  We have heard the same song before from posters just like you.  We see what is happening in the world even though you refuse to see it.  There should be religious tolereance for all people in this world, but your fellow Muslims don't seem to believe in this tolerance.  If they believed that people have the right to their religious beliefs, they wouldn't be killing these people.  Don't you even cringe when you hear of a car or suicide bombing committed by one sect of Muslims where dozens of innocent people of the other sect are killed?


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al_,

Yes, Carlos Latuff (born November 30, 1968) is a Brazilian freelance political cartoonist.[1] His works deal with an array of themes, including anti-Zionism, anti-globalization, anti-capitalism, and anti-U.S. military intervention. He is best known for his images depicting the IsraeliPalestinian conflict and, more recently, the Arab Spring events. Latuff himself has described his work as controversial.  (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)



montelatici said:


> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.


*(COMMENT)*

I first saw his work on the DeviantART Gallery page.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really are a laugh a minute, Haniya.  You must think people don't know what is going on.  Meanwhile, don't you think the world should be against the Muslims?  After all, if they read the newspapers or watch the news on T.V., they become aware of Muslims murdering Christians, Budfdhists, Hindus and even Muslims of different sects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should the world be against Muslims, or Christians or Jews or Hindus or people of any religion?  I think you haven't a clue what is going on.  You just hate Muslims and it clouds your logic.  You are basically a racist.
Click to expand...


Bringing up Muslim atrocities isn't racist.
But Muslims are trying to shut the world up it by calling anyone who criticizes them 'Islamophobes'.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al_,
> 
> Yes, Carlos Latuff (born November 30, 1968) is a Brazilian freelance political cartoonist.[1] His works deal with an array of themes, including *anti-Zionism, anti-globalization, anti-capitalism, and anti-U.S. military intervention. *He is best known for his images depicting the IsraeliPalestinian conflict and, more recently, the Arab Spring events. Latuff himself has described his work as controversial.  (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I first saw his work on the DeviantART Gallery page.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


So basically he is opposed to the criminal class.


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, _et al_,
> 
> Yes, Carlos Latuff (born November 30, 1968) is a Brazilian freelance political cartoonist.[1] His works deal with an array of themes, including *anti-Zionism, anti-globalization, anti-capitalism, and anti-U.S. military intervention. *He is best known for his images depicting the IsraeliPalestinian conflict and, more recently, the Arab Spring events. Latuff himself has described his work as controversial. (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I first saw his work on the DeviantART Gallery page.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So basically he is opposed to the criminal class.
Click to expand...

'
 Self identification as a communist, anti-American muslim, is noted!


----------



## Roudy




----------



## MJB12741

Yesiree!  I too am sure as hell pissed with those Zionists.  What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence so they can remain in Israel & even grant them their demand for a Jew free Gaza so they can kill more Israeli's?  Face it you Zionists, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like those Zionists in Israel do.  Shame on them.






montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we know that there are anti-Semites all over the world, and there are those anti-Semites who also happen to be cartoonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici, _et al_,
> 
> Yes, Carlos Latuff (born November 30, 1968) is a Brazilian freelance political cartoonist.[1] His works deal with an array of themes, including *anti-Zionism, anti-globalization, anti-capitalism, and anti-U.S. military intervention. *He is best known for his images depicting the IsraeliPalestinian conflict and, more recently, the Arab Spring events. Latuff himself has described his work as controversial. (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I first saw his work on the DeviantART Gallery page.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So basically he is opposed to the criminal class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> Self identification as a communist, anti-American muslim, is noted!
Click to expand...


You don't have to be any of that to oppose the criminal class.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people lied us into Iraq, lied us into Libya, lied us into Syria, and are lying us into Iran.
> 
> And you believe them.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so the US govt was wrong about many things, let's just ignore all the laws and start doing business with Al Queda.
> 
> You are a fine example of Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> Tell you what, get yourself caught supporting Hamas, and see what the judge thinks about the law being "childish name calling" and "the US was wrong about Iraq, so that means I can do business with a terrorist organization".  Ha ha ha
> 
> Make sure you let us know how that defense works out for you, okay?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just find it weird that you support proven liars. You believe every lie they tell you.
Click to expand...

Here's a good example of people believing lies, Tinmore.


Far-left Israeli newspaper Haaretz has been accused of fabricating an "attack" by Jews celebrating Lag Ba'omer against one of its journalists in Hevron, in an attempt to incite against Jewish residents of the ancient city.

The article claimed that "settlers" celebrating Lag Ba'omer on Saturday night chose to light their customary bonfire in the middle of a "Palestinian olive grove", and alleged that a group of Jewish celebrants then "assaulted" a Haaretz journalist who was at the scene as he tried to film it.

The article, which was co-authored by veteran Haaretz journalists Amira Hass and Yair Ettinger, claimed that "The owners of the orchard and their children looked on with concern as the fire approached their olive trees...", at which point "Haaretz photographer Emil Salman, who requested to take photographs of the bonfire from close up, was assaulted by several settlers."


Haaretz 'Fabricated' Story About 'Settler Attack' - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically he is opposed to the criminal class.
> 
> 
> 
> '
> Self identification as a communist, anti-American muslim, is noted!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have to be any of that to oppose the criminal class.
Click to expand...

 
 But you are!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> '
> Self identification as a communist, anti-American muslim, is noted!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to be any of that to oppose the criminal class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you are!
Click to expand...


Not really.

Why do you support the people who are robbing you?

That doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to be any of that to oppose the criminal class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...


Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you are!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
Click to expand...


There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.

Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.


----------



## aris2chat

Vigilante said:


>



Did you catch the hamas cartoon threatening immigrants?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD1na_Xlk_4]32 sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!


FBI credit card records show that the 19 hijackers partied almost every night in strip clubs and  spent a lot of money on hookers and  alcohol.

Does that sound like a muslim to you?


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Ok so the US govt was wrong about many things, let's just ignore all the laws ...


Laws!  You don't give a shit about laws, you fucking hypocrite!  Every one of your posts prove that.



Roudy said:


> and start doing business with Al Queda.


Actually we do (in Syria) and have (in Afghanistan).




Roudy said:


> You are a fine example of Palestinian Mentality.


 And you're just plain mental.




Roudy said:


> Tell you what, get yourself caught supporting Hamas, and see what the judge thinks about the law being "childish name calling" and "the US was wrong about Iraq, so that means I can do business with a terrorist organization".  Ha ha ha


You talk like a 10 year old.




Roudy said:


> Make sure you let us know how that defense works out for you, okay?


Why don't you let us know when you return to planet earth, because _you're out there!_


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is it they say...."If the COMBAT BOOT FITS.....
Click to expand...

Then it's okay to kill children with GI Joe dolls?


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Bringing up Muslim atrocities isn't racist.


But trashing them 24/7, is.



toastman said:


> But Muslims are trying to shut the world up it by calling anyone who criticizes them 'Islamophobes'.


And calling anyone who criticizes Israel anti-Semitic, is not?


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters


That's like mourning the death of Nazis killed during the invasion of Poland.


----------



## Billo_Really

Vigilante said:


> Yes, the muslim dogs will even sacrifice their women and children for a POLITICAL POINT that can be expanded across to the enablers friends.... But YOU knew this, and try to make it look like the muslim attack on Jews is anything but.... Once a dog.....


Does that include missile strikes on Palestinian children walking to school or playing soccer?


----------



## Billo_Really

Sally said:


> Give it a rest.  We have heard the same song before from posters just like you.  We see what is happening in the world even though you refuse to see it.  There should be religious tolereance for all people in this world, but your fellow Muslims don't seem to believe in this tolerance.  If they believed that people have the right to their religious beliefs, they wouldn't be killing these people.  Don't you even cringe when you hear of a car or suicide bombing committed by one sect of Muslims where dozens of innocent people of the other sect are killed?


There wouldn't be suicide bombers if you stopped treating them like they're sub-human.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> That's like mourning the death of Nazis killed during the invasion of Poland.
Click to expand...

Nahhhhhh...

For that we must look to those whose philosophical roots and militaristic mannerisms ape those of the Nazis...


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the muslim dogs will even sacrifice their women and children for a POLITICAL POINT that can be expanded across to the enablers friends.... But YOU knew this, and try to make it look like the muslim attack on Jews is anything but.... Once a dog.....
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include missile strikes on Palestinian children walking to school or playing soccer?
Click to expand...

It's the unfortunate consequence of your beloved Hamas terrorists embedding their rocket launchers and headquarters and militia units and leadership and war-assets within heavily populated civilian residential areas - shooting from within those civilian population areas and stupidly expecting not to receive return-fire because of their shielding - hiding behind the skirts of their women and children like the pussies they are...


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give it a rest.  We have heard the same song before from posters just like you.  We see what is happening in the world even though you refuse to see it.  There should be religious tolereance for all people in this world, but your fellow Muslims don't seem to believe in this tolerance.  If they believed that people have the right to their religious beliefs, they wouldn't be killing these people.  Don't you even cringe when you hear of a car or suicide bombing *committed by one sect of Muslims* where dozens of innocent people of the *other sect* are killed?
> 
> 
> 
> There wouldn't be suicide bombers if you stopped treating them like they're sub-human.
Click to expand...

He was talking about suicide bombings as a tactic between different sects of Muslims, as an indication of their suicidal nature, apart from the Muslim-Jewish conflict, in order to illustrate their intolerant and savage mindset, which can be turned against other Muslims, Jews, Christians, whatever. Try to keep up.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After they had killed many Palestinian women and children, of course.
Click to expand...




 Actually under INTERNATIONAL LAW it was hamas that killed those women and children. Try reading the Geneva Conventions which contain all the details


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the cartoonist is a Brazilian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we know that there are anti-Semites all over the world, and there are those anti-Semites who also happen to be cartoonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
Click to expand...




 WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP

 If the world is against Zionism ( the belief that the Jews have the right to a homeland in the M.E and the right to defend that homeland ) then they are against the human rights of every Jew making them ANTI SEMITIC .


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, most of the world is against Zionism not against Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really are a laugh a minute, Haniya.  You must think people don't know what is going on.  Meanwhile, don't you think the world should be against the Muslims?  After all, if they read the newspapers or watch the news on T.V., they become aware of Muslims murdering Christians, Budfdhists, Hindus and even Muslims of different sects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should the world be against Muslims, or Christians or Jews or Hindus or people of any religion?  I think you haven't a clue what is going on.  You just hate Muslims and it clouds your logic.  You are basically a racist.
Click to expand...





 Once again you use ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA by claiming a person is racist towards a religion. Try reading what defines racism and it is not speaking the truth about how vile, evil and violent muslims are. But it is when you LIE about Zionism, Israel and the Jews


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically he is opposed to the criminal class.
> 
> 
> 
> '
> Self identification as a communist, anti-American muslim, is noted!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have to be any of that to oppose the criminal class.
Click to expand...




 So when will you oppose the muslim criminal class, after all there are many more of them than there are Jews and Zionists ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> '
> Self identification as a communist, anti-American muslim, is noted!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to be any of that to oppose the criminal class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So when will you oppose the muslim criminal class, after all there are many more of them than there are Jews and Zionists ?
Click to expand...


Did I say that the criminal class was Jewish?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to be any of that to oppose the criminal class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...




 The group robbing the US people are the muslims who receive over $10 billion a year in aid. Not loans that have to be paid back like Israel's $2.5 billion of loans in the $3 billion it gets from the USA.

 The muslims are robbing me of my taxes, my health care, my housing, my jobs and my freedom.  The Jews are doing nothing to steal from me


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.
> 
> Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.
Click to expand...





 But muslims were, just as they were fingered for the London transport bombings and the Glasgow airport bombing. Not a Jew in sight either


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
> 
> 
> 
> FBI credit card records show that the 19 hijackers partied almost every night in strip clubs and  spent a lot of money on hookers and  alcohol.
> 
> Does that sound like a muslim to you?
Click to expand...





 Yes it does, and I know quite a few who do the same.   How many do you know ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you are!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The group robbing the US people are the muslims who receive over $10 billion a year in aid. Not loans that have to be paid back like Israel's $2.5 billion of loans in the $3 billion it gets from the USA.
> 
> The muslims are robbing me of my taxes, my health care, my housing, my jobs and my freedom.  The Jews are doing nothing to steal from me
Click to expand...


We give aid to the Muslim criminal class also.

Was that your point?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is it they say...."If the COMBAT BOOT FITS.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then it's okay to kill children with GI Joe dolls?
Click to expand...





 Why don't  you ask the Palestinians as that is their preferred targets


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing up Muslim atrocities isn't racist.
> 
> 
> 
> But trashing them 24/7, is.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> But Muslims are trying to shut the world up it by calling anyone who criticizes them 'Islamophobes'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And calling anyone who criticizes Israel anti-Semitic, is not?
Click to expand...




 If the reports trash muslims 24/7 then how is it racist, it shows that there is a big problem

 Using  evocative language and making false claims is not critisism


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> That's like mourning the death of Nazis killed during the invasion of Poland.
Click to expand...





 And that is a typical ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST reply.

 It is more like mourning the deaths the American G.I's storming Midway


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the muslim dogs will even sacrifice their women and children for a POLITICAL POINT that can be expanded across to the enablers friends.... But YOU knew this, and try to make it look like the muslim attack on Jews is anything but.... Once a dog.....
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include missile strikes on Palestinian children walking to school or playing soccer?
Click to expand...




 Hey if the cowards did not use schools and parks to fire their rockets from the children would not be killed. Over 50% of gaza is unpopulated so why do the cowards hide behind civilians ?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give it a rest.  We have heard the same song before from posters just like you.  We see what is happening in the world even though you refuse to see it.  There should be religious tolereance for all people in this world, but your fellow Muslims don't seem to believe in this tolerance.  If they believed that people have the right to their religious beliefs, they wouldn't be killing these people.  Don't you even cringe when you hear of a car or suicide bombing committed by one sect of Muslims where dozens of innocent people of the other sect are killed?
> 
> 
> 
> There wouldn't be suicide bombers if you stopped treating them like they're sub-human.
Click to expand...




 How long have the Palestinians been suicide bombers now, and the evidence shows that even when they are in control they still resort to suicide bombing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give it a rest.  We have heard the same song before from posters just like you.  We see what is happening in the world even though you refuse to see it.  There should be religious tolereance for all people in this world, but your fellow Muslims don't seem to believe in this tolerance.  If they believed that people have the right to their religious beliefs, they wouldn't be killing these people.  Don't you even cringe when you hear of a car or suicide bombing committed by one sect of Muslims where dozens of innocent people of the other sect are killed?
> 
> 
> 
> There wouldn't be suicide bombers if you stopped treating them like they're sub-human.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How long have the Palestinians been suicide bombers now, and the evidence shows that even when they are in control they still resort to suicide bombing.
Click to expand...


There haven't been suicide bombers for years.

You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> There wouldn't be suicide bombers if you stopped treating them like they're sub-human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How long have the Palestinians been suicide bombers now, and the evidence shows that even when they are in control they still resort to suicide bombing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There haven't been suicide bombers for years.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...

That there were suicide bombers at _all_ is revealing enough.

Not to mention hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, like they do.


----------



## jillian

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long have the Palestinians been suicide bombers now, and the evidence shows that even when they are in control they still resort to suicide bombing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There haven't been suicide bombers for years.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That there were suicide bombers at _all_ is revealing enough.
> 
> Not to mention hiding behind the skirts of their women and children, like they do.
Click to expand...


you know those are selling points for tinny and his jew-hating friends, right?


----------



## thanatos144

MJB12741 said:


> Let us consider the facts.  Fair enough?
> 
> http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/01/09/palestinians-invented-people/



Very good read....And as you see in this thread it is wholly ignored by the Jew Haters. Hell they always Ignore anything that isn't about how evil Jews are.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> How long have the Palestinians been suicide bombers now, and the evidence shows that even when they are in control they still resort to suicide bombing.


Let me see, they started 37 years after you started treating them like shit, 1967 + 37 = 2004 and it's now 2014, so 2014 - 2004 = 10, so they've been bombing for the last 10 years.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Hey if the cowards did not use schools and parks to fire their rockets from the children would not be killed.


There were no rockets being fired during those incidents.  Kids were walking to school and playing soccer when your piece of shit buddy's came flying in and took them out with a missile strike.




Phoenall said:


> Over 50% of gaza is unpopulated so why do the cowards hide behind civilians ?


Dude, get back on your meds!

Gaza is one of the most densely populated urban area on the planet.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> And that is a typical ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST reply.
> 
> It is more like mourning the deaths the American G.I's storming Midway


No its not.

Armed aggression is not the same as defending yourself against someone who has already attacked you.


----------



## thanatos144

and the terrorist apologizers still keep posting nonsense. To think so much Hatred for Jews still exist.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> If the reports trash muslims 24/7 then how is it racist, it shows that there is a big problem
> 
> Using  evocative language and making false claims is not critisism


How does a "report", do anything 24/7?

Can you get any more stupid?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.
> 
> Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha ho ho ho hee hee hee!  Then why did the Palestinians and Muslim world celebrate?

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E[/ame]


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is a typical ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST reply.
> 
> It is more like mourning the deaths the American G.I's storming Midway
> 
> 
> 
> No its not.
> 
> Armed aggression is not the same as defending yourself against someone who has already attacked you.
Click to expand...

Lobbing missiles into civilian areas is not "defending yourself", village idiot.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> There wouldn't be suicide bombers if you stopped treating them like they're sub-human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How long have the Palestinians been suicide bombers now, and the evidence shows that even when they are in control they still resort to suicide bombing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There haven't been suicide bombers for years.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...




 2008 was not that long ago when you consider you go back to 1917 to demonise the Jews


----------



## MJB12741

Eh, Tinmore, do you think maybe these damn low life Zionists did it?


http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/fbi_hijackers.jpg





P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.
> 
> Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long have the Palestinians been suicide bombers now, and the evidence shows that even when they are in control they still resort to suicide bombing.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see, they started 37 years after you started treating them like shit, 1967 + 37 = 2004 and it's now 2014, so 2014 - 2004 = 10, so they've been bombing for the last 10 years.
Click to expand...



 Not according to reports which shows them doing it in 1980

Tel Aviv?Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Which was Instrumental in the occupation and the fence around Israel. Did you know that the Palestinians are so arrogant that they complained to the UN that the security fence stopped them from suicide bombing.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey if the cowards did not use schools and parks to fire their rockets from the children would not be killed.
> 
> 
> 
> There were no rockets being fired during those incidents.  Kids were walking to school and playing soccer when your piece of shit buddy's came flying in and took them out with a missile strike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 50% of gaza is unpopulated so why do the cowards hide behind civilians ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, get back on your meds!
> 
> Gaza is one of the most densely populated urban area on the planet.
Click to expand...





 So you will have no problems in showing a link that proves your post


 Take a look on google earth and see that 50% of gaza is not populated

https://www.google.com/maps/place/J...2!3m1!1s0x15006f476664de99:0x8d285b0751264e99


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is a typical ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST reply.
> 
> It is more like mourning the deaths the American G.I's storming Midway
> 
> 
> 
> No its not.
> 
> Armed aggression is not the same as defending yourself against someone who has already attacked you.
Click to expand...




 AND are you forgetting your history of 194r8 when the arab league attacked and invaded Israel. many Palestinians took part in those attacks. Just as many Palestinians still attack Israel today, targeting children for the maximum effect. That one fact alone should turn every civilised decent person against the Palestinian scum.


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Why do you support the people who are robbing you?
> 
> That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.
> 
> Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.
Click to expand...

 
 Do you believe in Allah?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the reports trash muslims 24/7 then how is it racist, it shows that there is a big problem
> 
> Using  evocative language and making false claims is not critisism
> 
> 
> 
> How does a "report", do anything 24/7?
> 
> Can you get any more stupid?
Click to expand...




 Can you when you make a claim and then go all stupid when it is shown to be nothing but RACIST JEW HATRED. The reports used to trash muslims are factual and are being reported 24/7. Start with the war in Syria, the war in Darfur, the war in Pakistan, the war in Somalia, the war in Kenya in fact the whole of the world see's some muslim atrocity every minute of every day.


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is it they say...."If the COMBAT BOOT FITS.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then it's okay to kill children with GI Joe dolls?
Click to expand...


As log as they have a brick of C4 with the doll!


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> That's like mourning the death of Nazis killed during the invasion of Poland.
Click to expand...


Yes, a muslim Nazi would think that!


----------



## MJB12741

Just curious, who were those scum who stooped so low as to kill an entire world Olympics team in Munich?






Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is a typical ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST reply.
> 
> It is more like mourning the deaths the American G.I's storming Midway
> 
> 
> 
> No its not.
> 
> Armed aggression is not the same as defending yourself against someone who has already attacked you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND are you forgetting your history of 194r8 when the arab league attacked and invaded Israel. many Palestinians took part in those attacks. Just as many Palestinians still attack Israel today, targeting children for the maximum effect. That one fact alone should turn every civilised decent person against the Palestinian scum.
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Vigilante said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers mourn the death of fellow soldier Alex Mashavisky at his funeral in Beersheba on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Mashavisky was killed during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip. Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> That's like mourning the death of Nazis killed during the invasion of Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, a muslim Nazi would think that!
Click to expand...


You mean Zionazis like you.


----------



## Vigilante

Billo_Really said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the muslim dogs will even sacrifice their women and children for a POLITICAL POINT that can be expanded across to the enablers friends.... But YOU knew this, and try to make it look like the muslim attack on Jews is anything but.... Once a dog.....
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include missile strikes on Palestinian children walking to school or playing soccer?
Click to expand...


Of course, as long as 7000 PLO rockets are fired into Israel each year, the dumb Jews should just LEVEL all muslim areas attacking them, and be done with it! Rabid puppies grow to be rabid dogs.... Remarkable the restraint those people have, wonder what we'd do if ONE missile came into America from Cuba?


----------



## Vigilante

montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like mourning the death of Nazis killed during the invasion of Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, a muslim Nazi would think that!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean Zionazis like you.
Click to expand...


Ah.... you didn't know I'm an agnostic! But, it doesn't matter, when you run out of refutes, like all liberal scum, you simply yell RACIST, but in your case you simply changed it to Zionist! Pathetic, but understandable, when you run out of bullets, you throw pebbles!


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  "ZIONAZIS"  We sure need someone to laugh at while those Monte supports are killing us infidels all over the world.  This guy should be a stand up commedian.  Heh Heh.






montelatici said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like mourning the death of Nazis killed during the invasion of Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, a muslim Nazi would think that!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean Zionazis like you.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.
> 
> Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you believe in Allah?
Click to expand...


No.


----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because they don't kill me like muslims do! Do you not care about almost 3000 Americans killed by muslims?...Apparently not, that is why you are what you are!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.
> 
> Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you believe in Allah?
Click to expand...

Tinmore is on the Hamas payroll. He even mourned Bin Laden's death as did the Hamas leadership.


----------



## Roudy

Vigilante said:


>


All the land in green are barbaric shitholes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Just curious, who were those scum who stooped so low as to kill an entire world Olympics team in Munich?
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> No its not.
> 
> Armed aggression is not the same as defending yourself against someone who has already attacked you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AND are you forgetting your history of 194r8 when the arab league attacked and invaded Israel. many Palestinians took part in those attacks. Just as many Palestinians still attack Israel today, targeting children for the maximum effect. That one fact alone should turn every civilised decent person against the Palestinian scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I believe it was some people who Israel kicked out of their country.


----------



## peach174

Palestinians are Jordanians.

Yasser Arafat made them up for political purposes.
All the while Yasser was Egyptian.

Palestine was always a territory and territories are never a State.
States have governments. 
Territories have no government and are subjects of other governments.
The PLO invented the State of Palestine in 1988 and the U.N. bought it hook line and sinker.


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has been no investigation into who perpetrated 911.
> 
> Bin Laden was never officially fingered for the Job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe in Allah?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that is a typical ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST reply.
> 
> It is more like mourning the deaths the American G.I's storming Midway
> 
> 
> 
> No its not.
> 
> Armed aggression is not the same as defending yourself against someone who has already attacked you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *AND are you forgetting your history of 194r8 when the arab league attacked and invaded Israel.* many Palestinians took part in those attacks. Just as many Palestinians still attack Israel today, targeting children for the maximum effect. That one fact alone should turn every civilised decent person against the Palestinian scum.
Click to expand...


I have asked many times for proof that that happened and have yet to receive a response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the muslim dogs will even sacrifice their women and children for a POLITICAL POINT that can be expanded across to the enablers friends.... But YOU knew this, and try to make it look like the muslim attack on Jews is anything but.... Once a dog.....
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include missile strikes on Palestinian children walking to school or playing soccer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, as long as 7000 PLO rockets are fired into Israel each year, the dumb Jews should just LEVEL all muslim areas attacking them, and be done with it! Rabid puppies grow to be rabid dogs.... Remarkable the restraint those people have, wonder what we'd do if ONE missile came into America from Cuba?
Click to expand...


*7000??? 

Chickenfeed.*


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious, who were those scum who stooped so low as to kill an entire world Olympics team in Munich?
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND are you forgetting your history of 194r8 when the arab league attacked and invaded Israel. many Palestinians took part in those attacks. Just as many Palestinians still attack Israel today, targeting children for the maximum effect. That one fact alone should turn every civilised decent person against the Palestinian scum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe it was some people who Israel kicked out of their country.
Click to expand...

Palestine was never a country.  You keep repeating it as though it's going to become true somehow.


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include missile strikes on Palestinian children walking to school or playing soccer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, as long as 7000 PLO rockets are fired into Israel each year, the dumb Jews should just LEVEL all muslim areas attacking them, and be done with it! Rabid puppies grow to be rabid dogs.... Remarkable the restraint those people have, wonder what we'd do if ONE missile came into America from Cuba?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *7000???
> 
> Chickenfeed.*
Click to expand...


Your right, before it gets worse, KILL THEM ALL...also PROTECTS us from the muslim terrorists! Israel would do us a great favor!


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that include missile strikes on Palestinian children walking to school or playing soccer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, as long as 7000 PLO rockets are fired into Israel each year, the dumb Jews should just LEVEL all muslim areas attacking them, and be done with it! Rabid puppies grow to be rabid dogs.... Remarkable the restraint those people have, wonder what we'd do if ONE missile came into America from Cuba?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *7000???
> 
> Chickenfeed.*
Click to expand...

7000 IDF artillery shells, raining down on Hamas positions?

Chickenfeed.

7000 JDAM bombs, dropping down on Hamas positions?

Chickenfeed.

7000 collateral casualties, as a result of those shells and bombs?

Chickenfeed.

LOL... right, Tinny?

See how that works?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, don't ya think?

You sure you wanna go down that path, Tinny?


----------



## peach174

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> No its not.
> 
> Armed aggression is not the same as defending yourself against someone who has already attacked you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *AND are you forgetting your history of 194r8 when the arab league attacked and invaded Israel.* many Palestinians took part in those attacks. Just as many Palestinians still attack Israel today, targeting children for the maximum effect. That one fact alone should turn every civilised decent person against the Palestinian scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have asked many times for proof that that happened and have yet to receive a response.
Click to expand...


It's History
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945?1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian


----------



## montelatici

peach174 said:


> Palestinians are Jordanians.
> 
> Yasser Arafat made them up for political purposes.
> All the while Yasser was Egyptian.
> 
> Palestine was always a territory and territories are never a State.
> States have governments.
> Territories have no government and are subjects of other governments.
> The PLO invented the State of Palestine in 1988 and the U.N. bought it hook line and sinker.



Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!


----------



## peach174

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious, who were those scum who stooped so low as to kill an entire world Olympics team in Munich?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it was some people who Israel kicked out of their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was never a country.  You keep repeating it as though it's going to become true somehow.
Click to expand...


Really!
Tinnmore
Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.


----------



## peach174

montelatici said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are Jordanians.
> 
> Yasser Arafat made them up for political purposes.
> All the while Yasser was Egyptian.
> 
> Palestine was always a territory and territories are never a State.
> States have governments.
> Territories have no government and are subjects of other governments.
> The PLO invented the State of Palestine in 1988 and the U.N. bought it hook line and sinker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
Click to expand...


You're the one that's been brainwashed.


----------



## montelatici

peach174 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it was some people who Israel kicked out of their country.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.  You keep repeating it as though it's going to become true somehow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really!
> Tinnmore
> Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
> Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.
Click to expand...


"*The Palestine Mandate*

ART. 2.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"


http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/palmanda.asp


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are Jordanians.
> 
> Yasser Arafat made them up for political purposes.
> All the while Yasser was Egyptian.
> 
> Palestine was always a territory and territories are never a State.
> States have governments.
> Territories have no government and are subjects of other governments.
> The PLO invented the State of Palestine in 1988 and the U.N. bought it hook line and sinker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
Click to expand...

The truth is not propaganda. Brainwashed? Isn't that what is called an enema in your circles?


----------



## montelatici

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are Jordanians.
> 
> Yasser Arafat made them up for political purposes.
> All the while Yasser was Egyptian.
> 
> Palestine was always a territory and territories are never a State.
> States have governments.
> Territories have no government and are subjects of other governments.
> The PLO invented the State of Palestine in 1988 and the U.N. bought it hook line and sinker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth is not propaganda. Brainwashed? Isn't that what is called an enema in your circles?
Click to expand...


No, it's what your conditioned mind is, brainwashed.  You read the truth, know the truth yet believe the propaganda.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is not propaganda. Brainwashed? Isn't that what is called an enema in your circles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it's what your conditioned mind is, brainwashed.  You read the truth, know the truth yet believe the propaganda.
Click to expand...

Of the 7 sentences Peach wrote, which one(s) are not true? Turnspeak is not recognized here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

peach174 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> *AND are you forgetting your history of 194r8 when the arab league attacked and invaded Israel.* many Palestinians took part in those attacks. Just as many Palestinians still attack Israel today, targeting children for the maximum effect. That one fact alone should turn every civilised decent person against the Palestinian scum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have asked many times for proof that that happened and have yet to receive a response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's History
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945?1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian
Click to expand...

From your link:



> After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in *attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate.*
> 
> This action was followed by the *invasion of the former Palestinian mandate* by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command.



Nowhere in that paper did it say that Israel was attacked.


----------



## peach174

montelatici said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.  You keep repeating it as though it's going to become true somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really!
> Tinnmore
> Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
> Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
Click to expand...



What does the top of the Mandate say?
said Powers the administration of the* territory of Palestine*

Territory
Palestine was always a territory.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have asked many times for proof that that happened and have yet to receive a response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's History
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945?1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in *attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate.*
> 
> This action was followed by the *invasion of the former Palestinian mandate* by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that paper did it say that Israel was attacked.
Click to expand...

Then who were the Ayrab armies inside Israel (or Palestine as you call it)? An un-organized church tour with weapons?


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.  You keep repeating it as though it's going to become true somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really!
> Tinnmore
> Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
> Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
Click to expand...


The system will not allow me to give you a positive rep, so... 

As a matter of fact, the Palestine mandate *called Palestine a country ten times.*

Here is something to think about.



> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
> 
> *4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.*
> 
> *5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence,* to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
> 
> 6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the *national unity and the territorial integrity of a country* is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and *respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.*
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's History
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945?1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in *attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate.*
> 
> This action was followed by the *invasion of the former Palestinian mandate* by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that paper did it say that Israel was attacked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then who were the Ayrab armies inside Israel* (or Palestine as you call it)*? An un-organized church tour with weapons?
Click to expand...


I didn't call it that. That is what it was. The 1949 UN armistice agreements called it Palestine.

BTW, they did not call it the "former Palestinian mandate" as the propagandists do.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really!
> Tinnmore
> Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
> Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The system will not allow me to give you a positive rep, so...
> 
> As a matter of fact, the Palestine mandate *called Palestine a country ten times.*
> 
> Here is something to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
> 
> *4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.*
> 
> *5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence,* to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
> 
> 6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the *national unity and the territorial integrity of a country* is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and *respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.*
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I think we need another peace initiative. What about you, Tinmore? Peace talks provide fodder for the academic study of failed diplomacy and also gives obscure politicians a shot at a Nobel prize.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, as long as 7000 PLO rockets are fired into Israel each year, the dumb Jews should just LEVEL all muslim areas attacking them, and be done with it! Rabid puppies grow to be rabid dogs.... Remarkable the restraint those people have, wonder what we'd do if ONE missile came into America from Cuba?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *7000???
> 
> Chickenfeed.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 7000 IDF artillery shells, raining down on Hamas positions?
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> 7000 JDAM bombs, dropping down on Hamas positions?
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> 7000 collateral casualties, as a result of those shells and bombs?
> 
> Chickenfeed.
> 
> LOL... right, Tinny?
> 
> See how that works?
> 
> What's good for the goose is good for the gander, don't ya think?
> 
> You sure you wanna go down that path, Tinny?
Click to expand...


Start @ 1:42 :40

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrTpXBeyClM]Ali Abunimah in ABQ. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The system will not allow me to give you a positive rep, so...
> 
> As a matter of fact, the Palestine mandate *called Palestine a country ten times.*
> 
> Here is something to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
> 
> *4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.*
> 
> *5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence,* to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
> 
> 6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the *national unity and the territorial integrity of a country* is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and *respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.*
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we need another peace initiative. What about you, Tinmore? Peace talks provide fodder for the academic study of failed diplomacy and also gives obscure politicians a shot at a Nobel prize.
Click to expand...


The so called peace process is designed to fail. It always has and always will.

Peace is already laid out in international law. Until the world decides to enforce international law there will be no peace.


----------



## peach174

P F Tinmore said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have asked many times for proof that that happened and have yet to receive a response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's History
> The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945?1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in *attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate.*
> 
> This action was followed by the *invasion of the former Palestinian mandate* by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that paper did it say that Israel was attacked.
Click to expand...


What the heck do you think that territory was? 
On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states. A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, entered Palestine - Jordan having declared privately to Yishuv emissaries on May 2 it would abide by a decision not to attack the Jewish state. The invading forces took control of the Arab areas and *immediately attacked Israeli forces and several Jewish settlements.*

As a result of the war the State of Israel retained the area that the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 had recommended for the proposed Jewish state and also took control of almost 60% of the area allocated for the proposed Arab state, including the Jaffa, Lydda and Ramle area, Galilee, some parts of the Negev, a wide strip along the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road, West Jerusalem, and some territories in the West Bank. Transjordan took control of the remainder of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Egyptian military took control of the Gaza Strip. No Arab Palestinian state was created.


----------



## montelatici

peach174 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really!
> Tinnmore
> Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
> Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does the top of the Mandate say?
> said Powers the administration of the* territory of Palestine*
> 
> Territory
> Palestine was always a territory.
Click to expand...


Territory refers to the former Turkish territory if you can read and it further states that "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;"  (the Allies) the country is formed, and in fact it is referred to as "country" several times afterwards and never again as "territory".


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere in that paper did it say that Israel was attacked.
> 
> 
> 
> Then who were the Ayrab armies inside Israel* (or Palestine as you call it)*? An un-organized church tour with weapons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't call it that. That is what it was. The 1949 UN armistice agreements called it Palestine.
> 
> BTW, they did not call it the "former Palestinian mandate" as the propagandists do.
Click to expand...

Tinmore, you just provided an example of not answering a question but dancing and skating and giving a statement not related to the question or by questioning the question with a stupid, juvenile question.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore; montelatici; peach174;

England is a *country* that is part of the United Kingdom; the greater sovereignty.  (Something to think about!)



P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really!
> Tinnmore
> Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
> Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The system will not allow me to give you a positive rep, so...
> 
> As a matter of fact, the Palestine mandate *called Palestine a country ten times.*
> 
> Here is something to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
> 
> *4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.*
> 
> *5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence,* to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
> 
> 6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the *national unity and the territorial integrity of a country* is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and *respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.*
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Palestine may have been considered a "country" --- but, in 1922, what does that mean?  It was never a colony.

What was Palestine (the Mandate of)?



			
				EXCERPT  UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT said:
			
		

> Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.
> 
> After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.
> 
> *SOURCE:* PAL/138  27 February 1948



Something to think about!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Insofar as the propaganda claiming Palestinians were an "invention" of Arafat:

"The hotel was the base for a* Palestine Arab delegation* that arrived in London in August 1921 and spent almost a year there, protesting in vain against the proposed terms of the British Mandate for Palestine.[3] The president of the delegation was Musa Kazim al-Husseini; its secretary was Shibli al-Jamal; the other delegates were Tawfiq Hammad, Amin al-Tamimi, Ibrahim Shammas and Mu'in al-Madi; the assistant secretary was Dr Fu'ad Samad."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Cecil_(London)



http://btd.palestine-studies.org/sites/default/files/styles/article_page/public/p.96%20%2384.jpg?itok=i5vNMm8l

The First Palestinian Delegation to the United Kingdom in working session in London, 1921. Two of the six-man delegation (first and fourth left) were Christian Palestinians. The delegation was elected by the Fourth Palestinian National Congress (see 83). Third left is Musa Kazim Pasha al-Husseini (see 78); fourth left is Shibli Jamal (see 62). This was the first of four Palestinian delegations to London undertaken during the period 1921-30 to explain Arab fears of the consequences of Zionist policies in Palestine.


----------



## montelatici

And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:

*PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


----------



## peach174

montelatici said:


> And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:
> 
> *PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
> See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)




They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.


----------



## montelatici

peach174 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:
> 
> *PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
> See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
Click to expand...


Who cares, they were Palestinians back in the 1920s, not in 1988.  There were no Indians until Indian independence?


----------



## P F Tinmore

peach174 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:
> 
> *PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
> See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
Click to expand...


"A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.


----------



## peach174

P F Tinmore said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:
> 
> *PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
> See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.
Click to expand...



If the nomadic tribes had not been against statehood in the later part of the 1800's then Israel would have never been able to have it's own State.
All though I do understand why they didn't. I also would have been against those taxes & fees that was introduced.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:
> 
> *PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
> See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.
Click to expand...

No.

A State is a chartered, incorporated polity, collectively representing a group of people, and, as a corporation, having its own rights at-law, held in trust for its people.

The legal rights of a people can, indeed, precede Statehood, when there exists a coherent and recognizable people to begin with, prior to Statehood.

That also assumes that those same people have the common sense to set up as a State in a timely manner to their own best advantage, and that those same people have the political and military power to enforce their will and to sustain a coherent identity and territory.

Given that the Palestinians did not even have the common sense that God gave an ant, to declare Statehood and Independence at the split-second that the Mandate terminated...

Given that the Palestinians allowed their Muslim neighbors to talk them into abandoning much of their land and to Skeddadle to refugee camps...

Given that the Palestinians allowed their Muslim neighbors to conduct their affairs on their behalf - largely due to incompetency and foolhardiness and primitivism...

Given that the Palestinians have never been able to "hold their own" - even with the massive help of a half-dozen or more Arab neighbor countries simultaneously, as well as second-hand assistance from the Soviet bloc and Iraq in the 1970s and 1980s...

Given that the Palestinians have phukked-up and pissed-away more chances to come to a middle-ground settlement that you can shake a stick at...

The Palestinians simply don't pass the Sniff Test, as a rational, sustainable, recognizable or coherent 'people'...

Never mind a State, which is no more than a joke, by any sane, rational standards used to gauge history, status and prospects...

The steamroller of history has already flattened the Palestinians...

Time to scrape 'em off the pavement and peel 'em apart into diverse segments and then disperse them into the surrounding region, and make an end to this...

Old legalities leaned-on so heavily by the Palestinians, and present-day Realities (to be reinforced and sustained in future) are entirely different animals...


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are Jordanians.
> 
> Yasser Arafat made them up for political purposes.
> All the while Yasser was Egyptian.
> 
> Palestine was always a territory and territories are never a State.
> States have governments.
> Territories have no government and are subjects of other governments.
> The PLO invented the State of Palestine in 1988 and the U.N. bought it hook line and sinker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
Click to expand...

"Orwell?"  Then let us hear what other *Arabs *have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was never a country.  You keep repeating it as though it's going to become true somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really!
> Tinnmore
> Palestine was a territory and was run by the British.
> Had Palestine been a State the British could never have declared Israel as a State to the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
Click to expand...

Jewish nation, Jewish nation, Jewish nation.  Palestine was to be a JEWISH NATION, MOHOMOD.

You keep repeating the same idiotic lies and false propaganda, over and over and over.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> "*The Palestine Mandate*
> 
> ART. 2.
> 
> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing *the country* under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion......*"
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does the top of the Mandate say?
> said Powers the administration of the* territory of Palestine*
> 
> Territory
> Palestine was always a territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Territory refers to the former Turkish territory if you can read and it further states that "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;"  (the Allies) the country is formed, and in fact it is referred to as "country" several times afterwards and never again as "territory".
Click to expand...

So it wasn't a country.  The land belonged to the Ottoman Turks.  So, Palestinians and Arabs have jackshit to say about what happens to "territory" that doesn't even belong to them.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:
> 
> *PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
> See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.
Click to expand...


So now the word 'State' is a propaganda term?? Where so you come up with this crap??

And why is it that whenever we discuss the status of Palestine as a state or territory, you always deflect and start talking about their right?? 
That's not even the issue and no one is claiming that they had no rights...


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And finally, to the consumers of the Israeli propaganda that attempts to delegitimize Palestinians by claiming that they are a recent invention by Arafat, source documentation from the UN Archives, check out the date of the meeting:
> 
> *PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: - ​*
> See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.
Click to expand...

Well, you heard it here first from our resident Hamas terrorist lover: "a state is a propaganda term".  Ha ha ha ha.  I have to tell you, you nutjobs are a barrel of laughs!


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are Jordanians.
> 
> Yasser Arafat made them up for political purposes.
> All the while Yasser was Egyptian.
> 
> Palestine was always a territory and territories are never a State.
> States have governments.
> Territories have no government and are subjects of other governments.
> The PLO invented the State of Palestine in 1988 and the U.N. bought it hook line and sinker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Orwell?"  Then let us hear what other *Arabs *have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
> "The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".
Click to expand...


Funny that there was a Palestinian delegation to London in 1922 when there were no Palestinians.  Funnier still is that they were there with the Zionists. apparently.  Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!

*"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:"​*
- See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
> 
> 
> 
> "Orwell?"  Then let us hear what other *Arabs *have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
> "The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny that there was a Palestinian delegation to London in 1922 when there were no Palestinians.  Funnier still is that they were there with the Zionists. apparently.  Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!
> 
> *"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:"​*
> - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...

OMG OMG OMG!  The Arab animals protested ANY land to be given to the Jews!  They wanted it to become exclusively Muslim shitholes!  OMG OMG OMG!  What a surprise!  Let's listen to what one of the founders of PLO said about this so called "Palestine":

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. *The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".*

- *Zuhair Muhsin*, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


----------



## Roudy

Funny, in July 1922, Jordan was to be ARAB PALESTINE and Israel was to be Jewish Palestine.   Poor MOHOMOD Latici, can't stop lying and making shit up.  LOL


----------



## aris2chat

MJB12741 said:


> Let us consider the facts.  Fair enough?
> 
> http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/01/09/palestinians-invented-people/



excellent, thank you


----------



## aris2chat

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Orwell would be proud of you, you mimic the brainwashed citizen perfectly.  They say that propaganda works best with dummies, you prove that point with flying colors!
> 
> 
> 
> "Orwell?"  Then let us hear what other *Arabs *have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
> "The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny that there was a Palestinian delegation to London in 1922 when there were no Palestinians.  Funnier still is that they were there with the Zionists. apparently.  Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!
> 
> *"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:"​*
> - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...


name for the mandate, not a people or nation............yet


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> ...Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!


Yeah...

Jewish propaganda has erased...

The _Kingdom_ of Palestine...

The _Caliphate_ of Palestine...

The _Kahnate_ of Palestine...

The _Emirate_ of Palestine...

The _Republic_ of Palestine...

Yadda, yadda, yadda... yap, yap, yap... blah, blah, blah...

They were all gone so fast that if you blinked twice, you missed 'em... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Oh, thou vile, wicked, Jooooooosss !!!


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Roudy

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Orwell?"  Then let us hear what other *Arabs *have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
> "The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that there was a Palestinian delegation to London in 1922 when there were no Palestinians.  Funnier still is that they were there with the Zionists. apparently.  Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!
> 
> *"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:"​*
> - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> name for the mandate, not a people or nation............yet
Click to expand...

Plus it says "Arab Delgation". Arabs themselves were against a Palestinian state and laughed at it. They just wanted Israel to be divided among the savages.


----------



## Roudy

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...
> 
> Jewish propaganda has erased...
> 
> The _Kingdom_ of Palestine...
> 
> The _Caliphate_ of Palestine...
> 
> The _Kahnate_ of Palestine...
> 
> The _Emirate_ of Palestine...
> 
> The _Republic_ of Palestine...
> 
> Yadda, yadda, yadda... yap, yap, yap... blah, blah, blah...
> 
> They were all gone so fast that if you blinked twice, you missed 'em...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, thou vile, wicked, Jooooooosss !!!
Click to expand...

All hail the wicked Jooos!


----------



## Vigilante

Will they ever learn?

*&#8217;Dhimmi&#8217; Western journalist who thought Muslims were his friends, was nearly beaten to death...*

  *Bare Naked Islam ^ 

 ...and shot by his Muslim &#8216;friends&#8217; in Syria AWWWW War reporter was bound, beaten and shot twice in Syria by a Muslim &#8216;rebel&#8217; he considered a friend. Anthony Loyd and photographer Jack Hill were snatched by gun-toting Hakim Anza&#8217;s gang &#8211; just hours after they had been guests in the warlord&#8217;s home. Times correspondent Loyd, 47, who feared he faced certain death, labeled the behavior of Anza in war-torn Syria &#8220;flawless treachery.&#8221; Loyd first met Hakim two years ago. The accountant, in his 30s, had been one of the earliest to rebel against President Assad. Writing in The Times, Loyd...


----------



## montelatici

aris2chat said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Orwell?"  Then let us hear what other *Arabs *have said:
> 
> "There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
> - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
> 
> "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
> - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
> 
> "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
> - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
> 
> Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
> "The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that there was a Palestinian delegation to London in 1922 when there were no Palestinians.  Funnier still is that they were there with the Zionists. apparently.  Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!
> 
> *"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:"​*
> - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> name for the mandate, not a people or nation............yet
Click to expand...


Sure, that's why there were the Egypt Arab Delegation, the Syria Arab Delegation etc.  Boy, you guys are grasping at straws to try to delegitimize the Palestinians, won't work.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that there was a Palestinian delegation to London in 1922 when there were no Palestinians.  Funnier still is that they were there with the Zionists. apparently.  Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!
> 
> *"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:"​*
> - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> name for the mandate, not a people or nation............yet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, that's why there were the Egypt Arab Delegation, the Syria Arab Delegation etc.  Boy, you guys are grasping at straws to try to delegitimize the Palestinians, won't work.
Click to expand...

Palestinian Arab = Syrian Arab 
Palestinian Arab = Egyptian Arab

Same shit, different day. Even the Arabs knew it.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> name for the mandate, not a people or nation............yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, that's why there were the Egypt Arab Delegation, the Syria Arab Delegation etc.  Boy, you guys are grasping at straws to try to delegitimize the Palestinians, won't work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian Arab = Syrian Arab
> Palestinian Arab = Egyptian Arab
> 
> Same shit, different day. Even the Arabs knew it.
Click to expand...


And yet they were separate delegations, how peculiar.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> ...Boy, you guys are grasping at straws to try to delegitimize the Palestinians, won't work.


Not really. No need. The Palestinians have long-since de-legitimized _themselves_.

And it already has worked.

Half the Arab world has already given up on them, and cooperates with the Israelis to contain those mad dogs.

The other half is thinking about it.

The self-inflicted de-legitimizing started with the _Great Palestinian Skeddaddle_ of 1948.

--------------------

Sign at a 1949 arms sale in Cairo:

"_50,000 Palestinian infantry rifles. Bargain-bazaar lot-pricing. Mint condition. Like new. Never fired, and only dropped once._"


----------



## montelatici

The Christians and Muslims were villagers, they weren't trained killers as the Jews were.  Their mistake. But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase.  It's downhill from here.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> The Christians and Muslims were villagers...


You mean the vast, overwhelming number of Muslims, and the relative handful of Christians?

( _by the way... that divide-and-conquer horseshit about Christians isn't going to get you anywhere_ )



> ...they weren't trained killers as the Jews were...


They were sufficiently trained and savage and competent at the art of killing to have been brutally suppressed by the British in the Uprising of 1936-1939.

An entire people does not 'forget' its martial capability, nor the savage, barbaric mindset which drives it, in a mere decade.



> ...Their mistake...


The only mistake they made was listening to the phoney-baloney promises of their Muslim-Arab neighbor-countries and handlers, and running like cowards.



> ..._But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase. It's downhill from here._


The recent and accelerating European rebuff of Islam will take care of that.

Multiculturalism is not working in connection with Islam and the dunderhead, slow-witted Euros are finally beginning to understand that...

As evidenced by public commentaries by the Prime Ministers of Britain, Germany and France.

The EU isn't going to do diddly-squat in connection with Israel, all hope-against-hope lightweight fluff protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Jews will have settled accounts with the Muslim Palestinians long before the EU is ever motivated to act on behalf of the Palestinians...

Which will probably happen the second Tuesday of Never...

And forgetting, of course, that the United States will continue to have Israel's back, even if the EU turned sour enough on them to consider doing anything even remotely likely to cause harm to Israel.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  You sure got that right.  How can we get more of them nutjobs here?  Heh Heh!






Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, you heard it here first from our resident Hamas terrorist lover: "a state is a propaganda term".  Ha ha ha ha.  I have to tell you, you nutjobs are a barrel of laughs!
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were villagers...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the vast, overwhelming number of Muslims, and the relative handful of Christians?
> 
> ( _by the way... that divide-and-conquer horseshit about Christians isn't going to get you anywhere_ )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...they weren't trained killers as the Jews were...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were sufficiently trained and savage and competent at the art of killing to have been brutally suppressed by the British in the Uprising of 1936-1939.
> 
> An entire people does not 'forget' its martial capability, nor the savage, barbaric mindset which drives it, in a mere decade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Their mistake...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only mistake they made was listening to the phoney-baloney promises of their Muslim-Arab neighbor-countries and handlers, and running like cowards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..._But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase. It's downhill from here._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recent and accelerating European rebuff of Islam will take care of that.
> 
> Multiculturalism is not working in connection with Islam and the dunderhead, slow-witted Euros are finally beginning to understand that.
> 
> The EU isn't going to do diddly-squat in connection with Israel, all hope-against-hope lightweight fluff protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
Click to expand...


Already the European people overwhelmingly support the Palestinians and believe that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.  It is the leadership that cow tows to the US that continues to support Israel.  That will change as the young, who support the Palestinians even more, become adults.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Already the European people overwhelmingly support the Palestinians and believe that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace. It is the leadership that cow tows to the US that continues to support Israel. That will change as the young, who support the Palestinians even more, become adults.


By that time, the so-called Palestinians will have long-since been dispersed into the surrounding regional countryside.

But, you may certainly continue to delude yourself that this is going to have even the tiniest sliver of effect on Israel, backed by the United States.

The longer you delude yourselves, the swifter and more surprising and effective will be the final blow within the Real World, when it comes, to complete the _Reconquista_ of Eretz Yisrael.

Nearly finished, now.

So, dream away.

Please.


----------



## Vigilante

*LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE!!!!*


----------



## Hossfly

Isn't it about time for shift change in the boiler room? Or is Billo too drunk to work? Who's going to fill in for Billo?


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were under the control of the British and they were never a State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So now the word 'State' is a propaganda term?? Where so you come up with this crap??
> 
> And why is it that whenever we discuss the status of Palestine as a state or territory, you always deflect and start talking about their right??
> That's not even the issue and no one is claiming that they had no rights...
Click to expand...


It is said constantly that the Palestinians never had "a state" and therefore never had any rights.

*This is not true.* The people of Non-Self-Governing Territories have inherent inalienable rights.

The right to self determination without external interference.

The right to freedom and sovereignty.

The right to territorial integrity.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that there was a Palestinian delegation to London in 1922 when there were no Palestinians.  Funnier still is that they were there with the Zionists. apparently.  Propaganda can make whole nations disappear!
> 
> *"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION. Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:"​*
> - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> name for the mandate, not a people or nation............yet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, that's why there were the Egypt Arab Delegation, the Syria Arab Delegation etc.  Boy, you guys are grasping at straws to try to delegitimize the Palestinians, won't work.
Click to expand...

Speaking of grasping at straws, thanks for letting us know that Arabs who did not own or control the land, did everything they could to prevent the creation of a Jewish homeland, yet failed, and even after they failed, they kept coming and failing, again and again and again.  Meanwhile the Jewish homeland is here and now and roaring like a mighty lion, steaming ahead into the future, while Arabs are steaming back towards the past.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> The Christians and Muslims were villagers, they weren't trained killers as the Jews were.  Their mistake. But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase.  It's downhill from here.


Wrong again, dipshit, the Arabs were the savages with a history of being invaders and killers, and the Jews were naive to believe that they wouldn't do that to them.  Jews developed militias and started defending themselves against the Arab savages after the Hebron massacre of 1929.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were villagers, they weren't trained killers as the Jews were.  Their mistake. But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase.  It's downhill from here.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, dipshit, the Arabs were the savages with a history of being invaders and killers, and the Jews were naive to believe that they wouldn't do that to them.  Jews started defending themselves against the Arab savages after the Hebron massacre.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the whole conflict started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were villagers...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the vast, overwhelming number of Muslims, and the relative handful of Christians?
> 
> ( _by the way... that divide-and-conquer horseshit about Christians isn't going to get you anywhere_ )
> 
> 
> They were sufficiently trained and savage and competent at the art of killing to have been brutally suppressed by the British in the Uprising of 1936-1939.
> 
> An entire people does not 'forget' its martial capability, nor the savage, barbaric mindset which drives it, in a mere decade.
> 
> 
> The only mistake they made was listening to the phoney-baloney promises of their Muslim-Arab neighbor-countries and handlers, and running like cowards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..._But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase. It's downhill from here._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recent and accelerating European rebuff of Islam will take care of that.
> 
> Multiculturalism is not working in connection with Islam and the dunderhead, slow-witted Euros are finally beginning to understand that.
> 
> The EU isn't going to do diddly-squat in connection with Israel, all hope-against-hope lightweight fluff protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already the European people overwhelmingly support the Palestinians and believe that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.  It is the leadership that cow tows to the US that continues to support Israel.  That will change as the young, who support the Palestinians even more, become adults.
Click to expand...


Most Europeans think Israel is a threat to world peace?? 

Do YOH even believe that drivel monty?? This is one of the dumbest phrases I've ever read


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A state" is a propaganda term. The legal rights of a people precede statehood. Statehood is the product of exercising rights not a prerequisite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now the word 'State' is a propaganda term?? Where so you come up with this crap??
> 
> And why is it that whenever we discuss the status of Palestine as a state or territory, you always deflect and start talking about their right??
> That's not even the issue and no one is claiming that they had no rights...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is said constantly that the Palestinians never had "a state" and therefore never had any rights.
> 
> *This is not true.* The people of Non-Self-Governing Territories have inherent inalienable rights.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.
> 
> The right to freedom and sovereignty.
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...


That's a lie.
When people say that Palestine was not a state, it's to contradict the Palestinian myth which says it was.

No one ever says anything about their rights, when we talk about Palestine being a territory and bit a state.


----------



## Hossfly

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the vast, overwhelming number of Muslims, and the relative handful of Christians?
> 
> ( _by the way... that divide-and-conquer horseshit about Christians isn't going to get you anywhere_ )
> 
> 
> They were sufficiently trained and savage and competent at the art of killing to have been brutally suppressed by the British in the Uprising of 1936-1939.
> 
> An entire people does not 'forget' its martial capability, nor the savage, barbaric mindset which drives it, in a mere decade.
> 
> 
> The only mistake they made was listening to the phoney-baloney promises of their Muslim-Arab neighbor-countries and handlers, and running like cowards.
> 
> 
> The recent and accelerating European rebuff of Islam will take care of that.
> 
> Multiculturalism is not working in connection with Islam and the dunderhead, slow-witted Euros are finally beginning to understand that.
> 
> The EU isn't going to do diddly-squat in connection with Israel, all hope-against-hope lightweight fluff protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already the European people overwhelmingly support the Palestinians and believe that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.  It is the leadership that cow tows to the US that continues to support Israel.  That will change as the young, who support the Palestinians even more, become adults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Europeans think Israel is a threat to world peace??
> 
> Do YOH even believe that drivel monty?? This is one of the dumbest phrases I've ever read
Click to expand...

He doesn't believe it but he has to type what the handlers write on a piece of paper.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were villagers, they weren't trained killers as the Jews were.  Their mistake. But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase.  It's downhill from here.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, dipshit, the Arabs were the savages with a history of being invaders and killers, and the Jews were naive to believe that they wouldn't do that to them.  Jews started defending themselves against the Arab savages after the Hebron massacre.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the whole conflict started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists.
Click to expand...


All you have to look at is who attacked who first. 

That would be the Arabs attacking Jews . Nothing to do with your deflection of ' but but but the Zionists came to Palestine!!'


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, dipshit, the Arabs were the savages with a history of being invaders and killers, and the Jews were naive to believe that they wouldn't do that to them.  Jews started defending themselves against the Arab savages after the Hebron massacre.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the whole conflict started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you have to look at is who attacked who first.
> 
> That would be the Arabs attacking Jews . Nothing to do with your deflection of ' but but but the Zionists came to Palestine!!'
Click to expand...


The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now the word 'State' is a propaganda term?? Where so you come up with this crap??
> 
> And why is it that whenever we discuss the status of Palestine as a state or territory, you always deflect and start talking about their right??
> That's not even the issue and no one is claiming that they had no rights...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is said constantly that the Palestinians never had "a state" and therefore never had any rights.
> 
> *This is not true.* The people of Non-Self-Governing Territories have inherent inalienable rights.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.
> 
> The right to freedom and sovereignty.
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a lie.
> When people say that Palestine was not a state, it's to contradict the Palestinian myth which says it was.
> 
> No one ever says anything about their rights, when we talk about Palestine being a territory and bit a state.
Click to expand...


If it does not change the Palestinian's rights, then what is the point of constantly bringing it up? It is a meaningless point.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the whole conflict started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All you have to look at is who attacked who first.
> 
> That would be the Arabs attacking Jews . Nothing to do with your deflection of ' but but but the Zionists came to Palestine!!'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
Click to expand...

The Zionists *IMMIGRATED* to Old Palestine and began buying tracts of land.

When it became clear to the Arabs that the Jews were beginning to own far more land than the Arabs felt comfortable with, they Arabs woke up - too little, too late - and decided to start killing Jews, rather than working things out peacefully.

Everything else proceeds from those early butcherings and savagery demonstrated by the Muslim-Arab so-called Palestinians.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is said constantly that the Palestinians never had "a state" and therefore never had any rights.
> 
> *This is not true.* The people of Non-Self-Governing Territories have inherent inalienable rights.
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.
> 
> The right to freedom and sovereignty.
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lie.
> When people say that Palestine was not a state, it's to contradict the Palestinian myth which says it was.
> 
> No one ever says anything about their rights, when we talk about Palestine being a territory and bit a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it does not change the Palestinian's rights, then what is the point of constantly bringing it up? It is a meaningless point.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians rights have been set aside by Jewish victories on the battlefield.

You are now stateless persons in the lands you formerly occupied.

Leave.


----------



## Kondor3

Vigilante said:


>


*January 20, 2017... tick, tick, tick...*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> All you have to look at is who attacked who first.
> 
> That would be the Arabs attacking Jews . Nothing to do with your deflection of ' but but but the Zionists came to Palestine!!'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionists *IMMIGRATED* to Old Palestine and began buying tracts of land.
> 
> When it became clear to the Arabs that the Jews were beginning to own far more land than the Arabs felt comfortable with, they Arabs woke up - too little, too late - and decided to start killing Jews, rather than working things out peacefully.
> 
> Everything else proceeds from those early butcherings and savagery demonstrated by the Muslim-Arab so-called Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Work things out peacefully? What options were on the table?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lie.
> When people say that Palestine was not a state, it's to contradict the Palestinian myth which says it was.
> 
> No one ever says anything about their rights, when we talk about Palestine being a territory and bit a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it does not change the Palestinian's rights, then what is the point of constantly bringing it up? It is a meaningless point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians rights have been set aside by Jewish victories on the battlefield.
> 
> You are now stateless persons in the lands you formerly occupied.
> 
> Leave.
Click to expand...


It is Illegal for foreigners to "set aside" inalienable rights.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it does not change the Palestinian's rights, then what is the point of constantly bringing it up? It is a meaningless point.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rights have been set aside by Jewish victories on the battlefield.
> 
> You are now stateless persons in the lands you formerly occupied.
> 
> Leave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is Illegal for foreigners to "set aside" inalienable rights.
Click to expand...

This is not directed at you personally, but served-up as point of illustration.

----------

Fuck your inalienable rights.

Take them back from the Jews, if you can.

Better yet, just wake-the-fuck up and leave.

You've lost.

It's over.

Go away.

Or die.

Either choice is fine.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Christians and Muslims were villagers, they weren't trained killers as the Jews were.  Their mistake. But, Europe is slowly coming around in support of the Palestinians.  With Muslim immigration to Europe, and as Muslims begin to have some political clout in Europe, the support will increase.  It's downhill from here.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, dipshit, the Arabs were the savages with a history of being invaders and killers, and the Jews were naive to believe that they wouldn't do that to them.  Jews started defending themselves against the Arab savages after the Hebron massacre.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the whole conflict started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists.
Click to expand...

The Arabs drew first blood by committing genocide on the ancient Jews of Hebron, in 1929.  You can't expect a people who just came out of a Nazi Holocaust to sit there and do nothing about a bunch of IslamoNazis trying to repeat what the Nazis did.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists *IMMIGRATED* to Old Palestine and began buying tracts of land.
> 
> When it became clear to the Arabs that the Jews were beginning to own far more land than the Arabs felt comfortable with, they Arabs woke up - too little, too late - and decided to start killing Jews, rather than working things out peacefully.
> 
> Everything else proceeds from those early butcherings and savagery demonstrated by the Muslim-Arab so-called Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Work things out peacefully? What options were on the table?
Click to expand...


*Arafat and Palestinians refuse peace, wish for destruction of Israel*

The New York Review of Books (www.nybooks.com) just published an interview with Ehud Barak, who was Israel's Prime Minister at the Camp David Peace talks in October 2000 (see the history page for more details).
It is now clear that Palestinians are not interested in peace but have clearly chosen terrorism and the anihilation of the State of Israel as their ultimate goal. 

After being offered 95% of the West Bank and Gaza (see maps), half of Jerusalem and an independent state of their own, Arafat and the Palestinians refused and didn't even present a counter offer.
After Deborah Sontag from the NY Times published a revisionist article blaming Israel and the US for the failed Camp David peace talks, here's what President Clinton told Barak:

FactsOfIsrael.com: Arafat and Palestinians refuse peace, wish for destruction of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rights have been set aside by Jewish victories on the battlefield.
> 
> You are now stateless persons in the lands you formerly occupied.
> 
> Leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is Illegal for foreigners to "set aside" inalienable rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is not directed at you personally, but served-up as point of illustration.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Fuck your inalienable rights.
> 
> Take them back from the Jews, if you can.
> 
> Better yet, just wake-the-fuck up and leave.
> 
> You've lost.
> 
> It's over.
> 
> Go away.
> 
> Or die.
> 
> Either choice is fine.
Click to expand...


That is why Israel is increasingly being viewed as a criminal state.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Illegal for foreigners to "set aside" inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not directed at you personally, but served-up as point of illustration.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Fuck your inalienable rights.
> 
> Take them back from the Jews, if you can.
> 
> Better yet, just wake-the-fuck up and leave.
> 
> You've lost.
> 
> It's over.
> 
> Go away.
> 
> Or die.
> 
> Either choice is fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is why Israel is increasingly being viewed as a criminal state.
Click to expand...

That and $3.50 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, Tinny. Doesn't mean diddly-squat, and it won't save you from dispersal.


----------



## MJB12741

Tinmore, how can those Zionists say the Palestinians don't want peace when the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians themselves elected Hamas to carry out their wishes?






P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists *IMMIGRATED* to Old Palestine and began buying tracts of land.
> 
> When it became clear to the Arabs that the Jews were beginning to own far more land than the Arabs felt comfortable with, they Arabs woke up - too little, too late - and decided to start killing Jews, rather than working things out peacefully.
> 
> Everything else proceeds from those early butcherings and savagery demonstrated by the Muslim-Arab so-called Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Work things out peacefully? What options were on the table?
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the vast, overwhelming number of Muslims, and the relative handful of Christians?
> 
> ( _by the way... that divide-and-conquer horseshit about Christians isn't going to get you anywhere_ )
> 
> 
> They were sufficiently trained and savage and competent at the art of killing to have been brutally suppressed by the British in the Uprising of 1936-1939.
> 
> An entire people does not 'forget' its martial capability, nor the savage, barbaric mindset which drives it, in a mere decade.
> 
> 
> The only mistake they made was listening to the phoney-baloney promises of their Muslim-Arab neighbor-countries and handlers, and running like cowards.
> 
> 
> The recent and accelerating European rebuff of Islam will take care of that.
> 
> Multiculturalism is not working in connection with Islam and the dunderhead, slow-witted Euros are finally beginning to understand that.
> 
> The EU isn't going to do diddly-squat in connection with Israel, all hope-against-hope lightweight fluff protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already the European people overwhelmingly support the Palestinians and believe that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.  It is the leadership that cow tows to the US that continues to support Israel.  That will change as the young, who support the Palestinians even more, become adults.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Europeans think Israel is a threat to world peace??
> 
> Do YOH even believe that drivel monty?? This is one of the dumbest phrases I've ever read
Click to expand...

Ya gotta love these morons.  They keep repeating these lies like a false propaganda machine, pretending it's actually true.

  Europe is now headed towards a clash of civilizations with the Muslim invasion that has been occurring all over Europe for a while now. The inability of the Muslim masses to assimilate and coexist and gain decent employment, if anything, this time bomb is the biggest threat to Europe today.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the whole conflict started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All you have to look at is who attacked who first.
> 
> That would be the Arabs attacking Jews . Nothing to do with your deflection of ' but but but the Zionists came to Palestine!!'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
Click to expand...

No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.  

Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> All you have to look at is who attacked who first.
> 
> That would be the Arabs attacking Jews . Nothing to do with your deflection of ' but but but the Zionists came to Palestine!!'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
Click to expand...


So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?

That is an interesting philosophy.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> 
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
Click to expand...

No.

Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.

Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.

Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.

So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.

Any other piercing observations?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
Click to expand...




> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.



I thought the propaganda says that the Arabs didn't own land.


----------



## thanatos144

If the terrorists want peace they need to stop trying to kill all the Jews all the time and the pathetic liberal and liberatarian Jew hating bastards need to stop supporting the terrorists efforts at genocide.


----------



## Billo_Really

Roudy said:


> Lobbing missiles into civilian areas is not "defending yourself", village idiot.


So is maintaining an illegal and immoral occupation for the last 50 years, of which, the rockets didn't start until year 37.


----------



## thanatos144

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lobbing missiles into civilian areas is not "defending yourself", village idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> So is maintaining an illegal and immoral occupation for the last 50 years, of which, the rockets didn't start until year 37.
Click to expand...


Then i guess the Arabs need to stop occupying and go back to Jordan.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> 
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
Click to expand...


Who do you think was there during the Byzantine period and later the arab armed conquest?  The japanese?


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
Click to expand...


Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought the propaganda says that the Arabs didn't own land.
Click to expand...

Dunno.

I'm not into propaganda.


----------



## Hossfly

MJB12741 said:


> Tinmore, how can those Zionists say the Palestinians don't want peace when the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians themselves elected Hamas to carry out their wishes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists *IMMIGRATED* to Old Palestine and began buying tracts of land.
> 
> When it became clear to the Arabs that the Jews were beginning to own far more land than the Arabs felt comfortable with, they Arabs woke up - too little, too late - and decided to start killing Jews, rather than working things out peacefully.
> 
> Everything else proceeds from those early butcherings and savagery demonstrated by the Muslim-Arab so-called Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Work things out peacefully? What options were on the table?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Looks like peace is about to break out again.

A hidden explosive device planted next to the border fence with Gaza detonated early Wednesday morning as IDF soldiers carried out patrols along the border. The blast caused damage to a patrol vehicle but caused no serious injuries.
The IDF confirmed that a vehicle took a direct hit from the improvised explosive device while conducting a routine mission near the southern part of the border.
In a statement, the army said that IDF forces responded immediately by opening fire on suspicious positions in Gaza. Forces suspected the presence of terrorists who were waiting to survey the effects of the blast.

Bomb Explodes, Rockets Fired On IDF Soldiers - Israel News


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries... _
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh... still, the Pissing Contest over who attacked who first?

Israel supporters disagree with your interpretation.

They also have Victory on the battlefield, to make their perspective operative.



> ..._In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things_...


Yes, they are, indeed, two different things.

The Jews did not demand to rule over other people.

The Jews were prepared to participate in a division of that land into two distinct States.

The dumbass Muslim-Arabs chose not to participate.

That escalated The Troubles into actual warfare, in the classical sense.

Once actual warfare began, old understandings and old legal standings were tossed right out the window, forevermore, and Victory on the battlefield became the deciding factor.

The Muslims should have come to terms, and participated in that division, while there was still time.

Too late now.

Sixty-six years too late (1948), or, forty-seven (1967) years too late, at the most optimistic.

No do-overs.

You snooze, you lose.

Baseball's "sucker's walk".

Take a hike.

Leave.



> .._.What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do. Lay down and accept European rule._


Nope.

Instead, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians _should_ have participated in a peaceful division of the land, in 1948, at the time of the termination of the British Mandate over Old Palestine.

Had the Muslim-Arabs done so, they would have had a State of their own, alongside Israel, and would have been living at-peace, and prospering, for the past 66 years, rather than living in shit-holes, in the few surviving slivers and fragments of present-day Rump Palestine.

Their choice... their responsibility.

A poor choice... a _very_ poor choice.

Nature does not favor people who continually and chronically make poor choices in matters of great import.

Consequently... collectively... Nature has *de*-selected them.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, how can those Zionists say the Palestinians don't want peace when the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians themselves elected Hamas to carry out their wishes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Work things out peacefully? What options were on the table?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like peace is about to break out again.
> 
> A hidden explosive device planted next to the border fence with Gaza detonated early Wednesday morning as IDF soldiers carried out patrols along the border. The blast caused damage to a patrol vehicle but caused no serious injuries.
> The IDF confirmed that a vehicle took a direct hit from the improvised explosive device while conducting a routine mission near the southern part of the border.
> In a statement, the army said that IDF forces responded immediately by opening fire on suspicious positions in Gaza. Forces suspected the presence of terrorists who were waiting to survey the effects of the blast.
> 
> Bomb Explodes, Rockets Fired On IDF Soldiers - Israel News
Click to expand...


Like the scorpion said to the frog, "it's in my nature" ...... and they both died.

They just can't help trying to kill Israelis.  Now IDF have to find the tunnel or the hole in the fence...... or build a wall like in the WB.  They do say that "good fences make good neighbors".  This maybe a case in point.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> 
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
Click to expand...

Now you're acting like you don't know what happened in Hebron, like a good Hamas liar. Yes, the Jews had been living in a Hebron since before the Crusades and the Palestinian animals committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on them.  It was all instigated and orchestrated by your hero Amin Al Husseini, the Nazi Mufti. 

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## Roudy

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries... _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhhh... still, the Pissing Contest over who attacked who first?
> 
> Israel supporters disagree with your interpretation.
> 
> They also have Victory on the battlefield, to make their perspective operative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..._In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things_...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they are, indeed, two different things.
> 
> The Jews did not demand to rule over other people.
> 
> The Jews were prepared to participate in a division of that land into two distinct States.
> 
> The dumbass Muslim-Arabs chose not to participate.
> 
> That escalated The Troubles into actual warfare, in the classical sense.
> 
> Once actual warfare began, old understandings and old legal standings were tossed right out the window, forevermore, and Victory on the battlefield became the deciding factor.
> 
> The Muslims should have come to terms, and participated in that division, while there was still time.
> 
> Too late now.
> 
> Sixty-six years too late (1948), or, forty-seven (1967) years too late, at the most optimistic.
> 
> No do-overs.
> 
> You snooze, you lose.
> 
> Baseball's "sucker's walk".
> 
> Take a hike.
> 
> Leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .._.What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do. Lay down and accept European rule._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Instead, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians _should_ have participated in a peaceful division of the land, in 1948, at the time of the termination of the British Mandate over Old Palestine.
> 
> Had the Muslim-Arabs done so, they would have had a State of their own, alongside Israel, and would have been living at-peace, and prospering, for the past 66 years, rather than living in shit-holes, in the few surviving slivers and fragments of present-day Rump Palestine.
> 
> Their choice... their responsibility.
> 
> A poor choice... a _very_ poor choice.
> 
> Nature does not favor people who continually and chronically make poor choices in matters of great import.
> 
> Consequently... collectively... Nature has *de*-selected them.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

So by what right do the Palestinians have to fire rocket missiles into Israeli civilian areas just because they illegally & immorally occupy the land?  Seems to me if they have no deeds to land they stole, Israel should remove them.  Don't you agree?




Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lobbing missiles into civilian areas is not "defending yourself", village idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> So is maintaining an illegal and immoral occupation for the last 50 years, of which, the rockets didn't start until year 37.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.
Click to expand...

More bullshit from MOHOMOD, the false propagandist convert. The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists went to Palestine to be attacked?
> 
> 
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
Click to expand...




 More or less, it did take a BLOOD LIBEL started by the Grand Mufti husseini to start the murders in Hebron

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 The Hebron massacre refers to the killing of sixty-seven Jews (including 23 college students) on 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of Mandatory Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by false rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places

 At around 4:00 pm, stones were thrown through the windows of Jewish homes. The Hebron Yeshiva was hit and as a student tried to escape the building, he was set upon by the mob who stabbed him to death. The sexton, the only other person in the building at the time, survived by hiding in a well. Some hours later Cafferata attempted to get the local mukhtars to assume responsibility for law and order,* but they told him that the Mufti had told them to take action or be fined *due to the 'Jewish slaughter of Arabs' in Jerusalem.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit from MOHOMOD, the false propagandist convert. The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years.
Click to expand...


"The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years."

So what, they lived there. The Indians had no control of their land either, before independence.  What's your point dimwit.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought the propaganda says that the Arabs didn't own land.
Click to expand...





 Very few did, and that is from the arab muslims themselves. You see if they owned land they were liable for taxes and conscription in the Ottoman army.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lobbing missiles into civilian areas is not "defending yourself", village idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> So is maintaining an illegal and immoral occupation for the last 50 years, of which, the rockets didn't start until year 37.
Click to expand...




 You forget the occupation is legal under UNTERNATIONAL LAW and the GENEVA CONVENTIONS. Plus the terrorism started in 1929 when the Grand Mufti ordered the muslims to kill the Jews. So since 1967 the Israelis have stopped the Palestinians from killing Israeli children by occupying the west bank and placing the inhabitants under martial law


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from MOHOMOD, the false propagandist convert. The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years."
> 
> So what, they lived there. The Indians had no control of their land either, before independence.  What's your point dimwit.
Click to expand...

They lived there but had no say.  Palestine was not a country.  It was a region which different people lived, all of which had no real say in who rules and controls the land.


----------



## MJB12741

How does anyone put an end to the land theft when no surrounding Arab country will grant their Palestinians a right of return?




QUOTE=Phoenall;9132263]





P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought the propaganda says that the Arabs didn't own land.
Click to expand...





 Very few did, and that is from the arab muslims themselves. You see if they owned land they were liable for taxes and conscription in the Ottoman army.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from MOHOMOD, the false propagandist convert. The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years."
> 
> So what, they lived there. The Indians had no control of their land either, before independence.  What's your point dimwit.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha. Palestinians are recent 20th century Arab invaders who started calling themselves Palestinians as of the 1960's'. They ain't no Indians.  

Palestinians are Arabs. The same people who have a history of invading, looting, and raping people's and their lands, INCLUDING INDIA. True story 

Will Durant, the famous historian summed it up like this:
"The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries... _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhhhh... still, the Pissing Contest over who attacked who first?
> 
> Israel supporters disagree with your interpretation.
> 
> They also have Victory on the battlefield, to make their perspective operative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..._In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things_...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they are, indeed, two different things.
> 
> The Jews did not demand to rule over other people.
> 
> The Jews were prepared to participate in a division of that land into two distinct States.
> 
> The dumbass Muslim-Arabs chose not to participate.
> 
> That escalated The Troubles into actual warfare, in the classical sense.
> 
> Once actual warfare began, old understandings and old legal standings were tossed right out the window, forevermore, and Victory on the battlefield became the deciding factor.
> 
> The Muslims should have come to terms, and participated in that division, while there was still time.
> 
> Too late now.
> 
> Sixty-six years too late (1948), or, forty-seven (1967) years too late, at the most optimistic.
> 
> No do-overs.
> 
> You snooze, you lose.
> 
> Baseball's "sucker's walk".
> 
> Take a hike.
> 
> Leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .._.What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do. Lay down and accept European rule._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Instead, the Muslim-Arab Palestinians _should_ have participated in a peaceful division of the land, in 1948, at the time of the termination of the British Mandate over Old Palestine.
> 
> Had the Muslim-Arabs done so, they would have had a State of their own, alongside Israel, and would have been living at-peace, and prospering, for the past 66 years, rather than living in shit-holes, in the few surviving slivers and fragments of present-day Rump Palestine.
> 
> Their choice... their responsibility.
> 
> A poor choice... a _very_ poor choice.
> 
> Nature does not favor people who continually and chronically make poor choices in matters of great import.
> 
> Consequently... collectively... Nature has *de*-selected them.
Click to expand...


Since I can't pos rep you;   

Very well said Kondor!!


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from MOHOMOD, the false propagandist convert. The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "The Arabs had no control over the land for at least 700 years."
> 
> So what, they lived there. The Indians had no control of their land either, before independence.  What's your point dimwit.
Click to expand...


I think his point is that the Arabs living there had no authority to make decisions like who will buy land there and who can immigrate there.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.
Click to expand...





 Wrong as it was Jews that were living in Palestine that bought the land through the Jewish National Fund. These land purchases started in the 1840's well before Zionism was invented

Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ottoman Land Code of 1858 "brought about the appropriation by the influential and rich families of Beirut, Damascus, and to a lesser extent Jerusalem and Jaffa and other sub-district capitals, of vast tracts of land in Syria and Palestine and their registration in the name of these families in the land registers".[8] Many of the fellahin did not understand the importance of the registers and therefore the wealthy families took advantage of this. Jewish buyers who were looking for large tracts of land found it favorable to purchase from the wealthy owners. As well many small farmers became in debt to rich families which lead to the transfer of land to the new owners and then eventually to the Jewish buyers.

 When purchasing land, Jewish migrants were concerned with the displacement of fellahin, agricultural laborers who cultivated the land. "In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as 'the most important asset of the native population'. Ben-Gurion said 'under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to the fellahs or worked by them'

 Because of the desire to displace the fewest number of people possible, large tracts of land were purchased in the coastal plain the valley areas since most of the area was uncultivated and swampy




 Guess you have been educated again child


----------



## montelatici

As usual, you demonstrate that the old adage is a wise course to take when one is dimwitted:

"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." 


There is also a list of all the counties and the relative land holdings of Jews and Arabs in 1947.


"This map shows the land that had been purchased by the Jews by 1947. In 1948 it was still about 7% of the total land area..."

Land Ownership In Palestine (As Of 1947).


----------



## Roudy

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Jews from Europe and Russia immigrated to Old Palestine, over several decades.
> 
> Buying tracts of land from Muslim-Arabs.
> 
> Said Muslim-Arabs eventually growing alarmed that so many Jews were doing so.
> 
> So said Muslim-Arabs decided to stop selling land to Jews and started killing them instead.
> 
> Any other piercing observations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, Europeans bought a tiny percentage of the land and the Europeans started the violence attacking Arab farmers and herders that had been using the land for centuries.  In any case buying land and then demanding to rule over the people that were living on the land are two different things.  What the f_ck did the Europeans expect the local people to do.  Lay down and accept European rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong as it was Jews that were living in Palestine that bought the land through the Jewish National Fund. These land purchases started in the 1840's well before Zionism was invented
> 
> Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The Ottoman Land Code of 1858 "brought about the appropriation by the influential and rich families of Beirut, Damascus, and to a lesser extent Jerusalem and Jaffa and other sub-district capitals, of vast tracts of land in Syria and Palestine and their registration in the name of these families in the land registers".[8] Many of the fellahin did not understand the importance of the registers and therefore the wealthy families took advantage of this. Jewish buyers who were looking for large tracts of land found it favorable to purchase from the wealthy owners. As well many small farmers became in debt to rich families which lead to the transfer of land to the new owners and then eventually to the Jewish buyers.
> 
> When purchasing land, Jewish migrants were concerned with the displacement of fellahin, agricultural laborers who cultivated the land. "In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as 'the most important asset of the native population'. Ben-Gurion said 'under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to the fellahs or worked by them'
> 
> Because of the desire to displace the fewest number of people possible, large tracts of land were purchased in the coastal plain the valley areas since most of the area was uncultivated and swampy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess you have been educated again child
Click to expand...

Down goes MOHOMOD in humiliation again. I'm beginning to think he enjoys this.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> As usual, you demonstrate that the old adage is a wise course to take when one is dimwitted:
> 
> "Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
> 
> 
> There is also a list of all the counties and the relative land holdings of Jews and Arabs in 1947.
> 
> 
> "This map shows the land that had been purchased by the Jews by 1947. In 1948 it was still about 7% of the total land area..."
> 
> Land Ownership In Palestine (As Of 1947).


So? It shows the Arabs did a good job invading.  Jews were majority population in Jerusalem from the mid 1800's to the early 1900's before the Arab masses invaded. True story


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, you demonstrate that the old adage is a wise course to take when one is dimwitted:
> 
> "Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
> 
> 
> There is also a list of all the counties and the relative land holdings of Jews and Arabs in 1947.
> 
> 
> "This map shows the land that had been purchased by the Jews by 1947. In 1948 it was still about 7% of the total land area..."
> 
> Land Ownership In Palestine (As Of 1947).
> 
> 
> 
> So? It shows the Arabs did a good job invading.  Jews were majority population in Jerusalem from the mid 1800's to the early 1900's before the Arab masses invaded. True story
Click to expand...


WOW, now that's typical.  You first imply that Jews own a large proportion of Palestine.  When you are shown that you are full of shit you change tack and assert that all it shows is that the Arabs did a good job invading, when, in fact, official British records show that it was the Jewish masses from Europe that invaded. 

"...700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians  
.....The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.* In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. -



Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, you demonstrate that the old adage is a wise course to take when one is dimwitted:
> 
> "Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
> 
> 
> There is also a list of all the counties and the relative land holdings of Jews and Arabs in 1947.
> 
> 
> "This map shows the land that had been purchased by the Jews by 1947. In 1948 it was still about 7% of the total land area..."
> 
> Land Ownership In Palestine (As Of 1947).
> 
> 
> 
> So? It shows the Arabs did a good job invading.  Jews were majority population in Jerusalem from the mid 1800's to the early 1900's before the Arab masses invaded. True story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW, now that's typical.  You first imply that Jews own a large proportion of Palestine.  When you are shown that you are full of shit you change tack and assert that all it shows is that the Arabs did a good job invading, when, in fact, official British records show that it was the Jewish masses from Europe that invaded.
> 
> "...700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians
> .....The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.* In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. -
> 
> 
> 
> Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)
Click to expand...


Invaded?? No. The immigrated with the help of the British. The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth.


----------



## montelatici

Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.

"The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."

Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?


----------



## MJB12741

No deeds, no land.  Farewell to all those Palestinian squatters.  Fair enough?





montelatici said:


> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?



They lost their homes because of war. Westher it was tbe Mandatory Palestine civil war of 1947-48 or the main war that was started by 5 Arab nations that attacked Israel, the 1948 Arab Israeli war.
What doss any if this have to do with 'invading'
Immigration through invitation is NOT an invasion. That's a lie used by PaliNazis to promite their agenda.


----------



## montelatici

_ civil war of 1947-48 or the main war that was started by 5 Arab nations that attacked Israel_

The war was started by the Jews with the implementation of the Plan Dalet designed to expel all non-Jews from the Jewish partition.  The Arab states attempted to halt the ethnic cleansing.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> _ civil war of 1947-48 or the main war that was started by 5 Arab nations that attacked Israel_
> 
> The war was started by the Jews with the implementation of the Plan Dalet designed to expel all non-Jews from the Jewish partition.  The Arab states attempted to halt the ethnic cleansing.



Thats a lie! The 5 Arab states came to destroy Israel. And it doesn't really matter why they went there, the fact of the matter is that THEY started the war with Israel, not the other way around.

Btw, can you give me a link of how the war was started by the Jews, even though the Jews NEVER attacked any of thise states until they attacked first?


----------



## Hossfly

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> _ civil war of 1947-48 or the main war that was started by 5 Arab nations that attacked Israel_
> 
> The war was started by the Jews with the implementation of the Plan Dalet designed to expel all non-Jews from the Jewish partition.  The Arab states attempted to halt the ethnic cleansing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats a lie! The 5 Arab states came to destroy Israel. And it doesn't really matter why they went there, the fact of the matter is that THEY started the war with Israel, not the other way around.
> 
> Btw, can you give me a link of how the war was started by the Jews, even though the Jews NEVER attacked any of thise states until they attacked first?
Click to expand...

Monte saw that on an old Farfur episode.


----------



## montelatici

The Haganah had already attacked and expelled most of the Palestinians before any "Arab armies" ever tried to stop the ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews.  IDF intelligence reports that were declassified, confirm these facts.


" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. "At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the report&#8217;s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, Muslim invaders committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews of Hebron, then more of them invaded and now they claim the city to be their own.
> 
> Why don't you face it?  Muslims are good at killing and oppressing people. If it's not Jew, it's Christians, if it's not Christians, it's Bahaiis, and then when there are no Muslims left to kill and oppress, they start killing each other. They've done it in their past, are doing it today, and will continue to do it in the future.  This is their culture, and their report card is the evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you're acting like you don't know what happened in Hebron, like a good Hamas liar. Yes, the Jews had been living in a Hebron since before the Crusades and the Palestinian animals committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on them.  It was all instigated and orchestrated by your hero Amin Al Husseini, the Nazi Mufti.
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
Click to expand...


The Mufti was appointed by the British.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?





 They were also invited to migrate by the Ottomans in the early 1800's so will you also complain about them ?


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the Jews lived in Hebron forever. Then one day, out of the clear blue sky, for no reason at all, the Muslims arbitrarily decided that they hate Jews?
> 
> That is an interesting philosophy.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're acting like you don't know what happened in Hebron, like a good Hamas liar. Yes, the Jews had been living in a Hebron since before the Crusades and the Palestinian animals committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on them.  It was all instigated and orchestrated by your hero Amin Al Husseini, the Nazi Mufti.
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Mufti was appointed by the British.
Click to expand...

and he ran when the british were about to arrest him


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> _ civil war of 1947-48 or the main war that was started by 5 Arab nations that attacked Israel_
> 
> The war was started by the Jews with the implementation of the Plan Dalet designed to expel all non-Jews from the Jewish partition.  The Arab states attempted to halt the ethnic cleansing.


More Revisionist Happy Horseshit.

The Arab states attempted to push the Jews into the Mediterranean.

The Jews pushed back.

The Arab pussies did not accomplish their objectives.

The last 66 years has been largely one of listening to those whiny bitches kvetching about the outcome of their incompetency and weakness.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> The Haganah had already attacked and expelled most of the Palestinians before any "Arab armies" ever tried to stop the ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews.  IDF intelligence reports that were declassified, confirm these facts.
> 
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. "At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the report&#8217;s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition


More lies, Haganah and Irgun were created after the 1929 Hebron massacre to defend the Jews against Arab animals continuing this barbaric nazi behavior led by their nazi leader the Mufti.  

Moooooslems have a problem when there are consequences for their behavior.  Typical.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah had already attacked and expelled most of the Palestinians before any "Arab armies" ever tried to stop the ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews.  IDF intelligence reports that were declassified, confirm these facts.
> 
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. "At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the reports compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, Haganah and Irgun were created after the 1929 Hebron massacre to defend the Jews against Arab animals continuing this barbaric nazi behavior led by their nazi leader the Mufti.
> 
> Moooooslems have a problem when there are consequences for their behavior.  Typical.
Click to expand...


Hey. Frouthy, frothing at the mouth again, I see.  What does the creation of Haganah have to do with the ethnic cleansing they performed two decades later?


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah had already attacked and expelled most of the Palestinians before any "Arab armies" ever tried to stop the ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews.  IDF intelligence reports that were declassified, confirm these facts.
> 
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. "At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the reports compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, Haganah and Irgun were created after the 1929 Hebron massacre to defend the Jews against Arab animals continuing this barbaric nazi behavior led by their nazi leader the Mufti.
> 
> Moooooslems have a problem when there are consequences for their behavior.  Typical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey. Frouthy, frothing at the mouth again, I see.  What does the creation of Haganah have to do with the ethnic cleansing they performed two decades later?
Click to expand...


Why, if anyone is frothing at the mouth, it is you, Haniya.  You don't even seem to come up for air.  If the Jews didn't have jobs, those poor Arabs would have stayed in their impoverished states, and if the Arab leaders didn't tell those who were living in the area to leave so that they could get at the Jews, all those Arabs would have stayed.  Those who did stay are now citizens of Israel.  I am sure all the readers know what is going on today.  Those living in America see the poor Hispanics crossing our southern border for jobs, and those Muslims from Muslim countries are flooding into Europe because their own poor countries can't offer them a living.  This is why you see desperate Muslims get into those boats which are not seaworthy and drown on their way to Europe where they hope to get jobs.  And this is the same reason you saw Arabs flooding into Israel -- for the jobs.  A while back an Egyptian offical said that the Gazans should come back to Egypt where they belonged so I guess he saw the truth -- that many poor Egyptians or their ancestors left and that now these descendents should go back where they belonged.


----------



## montelatici

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, Haganah and Irgun were created after the 1929 Hebron massacre to defend the Jews against Arab animals continuing this barbaric nazi behavior led by their nazi leader the Mufti.
> 
> Moooooslems have a problem when there are consequences for their behavior.  Typical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey. Frouthy, frothing at the mouth again, I see.  What does the creation of Haganah have to do with the ethnic cleansing they performed two decades later?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, if anyone is frothing at the mouth, it is you, Haniya.  You don't even seem to come up for air.  If the Jews didn't have jobs, those poor Arabs would have stayed in their impoverished states, and if the Arab leaders didn't tell those who were living in the area to leave so that they could get at the Jews, all those Arabs would have stayed.  Those who did stay are now citizens of Israel.  I am sure all the readers know what is going on today.  Those living in America see the poor Hispanics crossing our southern border for jobs, and those Muslims from Muslim countries are flooding into Europe because their own poor countries can't offer them a living.  This is why you see desperate Muslims get into those boats which are not seaworthy and drown on their way to Europe where they hope to get jobs.  And this is the same reason you saw Arabs flooding into Israel -- for the jobs.  A while back an Egyptian offical said that the Gazans should come back to Egypt where they belonged so I guess he saw the truth -- that many poor Egyptians or their ancestors left and that now these descendents should go back where they belonged.
Click to expand...


You are just spouting Zionist propaganda.  The only mass immigration was from Europe as all the British reports of the Mandatory confirm.  No sense providing the links because you will only accept Zionist propaganda and facts don't matter to you.

But get this through your thick head.  The settlers came from Europe, the Christians and Muslims of Palestine did not ask them to come.  The British imperialists promoted the mass settlement of Europeans in Palestine. That was the original sin.


----------



## thanatos144

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey. Frouthy, frothing at the mouth again, I see.  What does the creation of Haganah have to do with the ethnic cleansing they performed two decades later?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, if anyone is frothing at the mouth, it is you, Haniya.  You don't even seem to come up for air.  If the Jews didn't have jobs, those poor Arabs would have stayed in their impoverished states, and if the Arab leaders didn't tell those who were living in the area to leave so that they could get at the Jews, all those Arabs would have stayed.  Those who did stay are now citizens of Israel.  I am sure all the readers know what is going on today.  Those living in America see the poor Hispanics crossing our southern border for jobs, and those Muslims from Muslim countries are flooding into Europe because their own poor countries can't offer them a living.  This is why you see desperate Muslims get into those boats which are not seaworthy and drown on their way to Europe where they hope to get jobs.  And this is the same reason you saw Arabs flooding into Israel -- for the jobs.  A while back an Egyptian offical said that the Gazans should come back to Egypt where they belonged so I guess he saw the truth -- that many poor Egyptians or their ancestors left and that now these descendents should go back where they belonged.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just spouting Zionist propaganda.  The only mass immigration was from Europe as all the British reports of the Mandatory confirm.  No sense providing the links because you will only accept Zionist propaganda and facts don't matter to you.
> 
> But get this through your thick head.  The settlers came from Europe, the Christians and Muslims of Palestine did not ask them to come.  The British imperialists promoted the mass settlement of Europeans in Palestine. That was the original sin.
Click to expand...


Wow Jew hate is strong in you 

tapatalk post


----------



## montelatici

Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine?  Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine?  Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?


Those European settlers are all dead and buried and since you're blaming the current Israelis, so yes it is your rabid Jew hate.


----------



## Kondor3

Are we havin' fun yet?


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey. Frouthy, frothing at the mouth again, I see.  What does the creation of Haganah have to do with the ethnic cleansing they performed two decades later?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, if anyone is frothing at the mouth, it is you, Haniya.  You don't even seem to come up for air.  If the Jews didn't have jobs, those poor Arabs would have stayed in their impoverished states, and if the Arab leaders didn't tell those who were living in the area to leave so that they could get at the Jews, all those Arabs would have stayed.  Those who did stay are now citizens of Israel.  I am sure all the readers know what is going on today.  Those living in America see the poor Hispanics crossing our southern border for jobs, and those Muslims from Muslim countries are flooding into Europe because their own poor countries can't offer them a living.  This is why you see desperate Muslims get into those boats which are not seaworthy and drown on their way to Europe where they hope to get jobs.  And this is the same reason you saw Arabs flooding into Israel -- for the jobs.  A while back an Egyptian offical said that the Gazans should come back to Egypt where they belonged so I guess he saw the truth -- that many poor Egyptians or their ancestors left and that now these descendents should go back where they belonged.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just spouting Zionist propaganda.  The only mass immigration was from Europe as all the British reports of the Mandatory confirm.  No sense providing the links because you will only accept Zionist propaganda and facts don't matter to you.
> 
> But get this through your thick head.  The settlers came from Europe, the Christians and Muslims of Palestine did not ask them to come.  The British imperialists promoted the mass settlement of Europeans in Palestine. That was the original sin.
Click to expand...


That's because the Christians and Muslims had no authority to allow or disallow immigration ... From anywhere! 
The British however did have the authority....

The European Jews immigrated. Too bad. Get over it. Stop whining about it.


----------



## Sally

montelatici said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey. Frouthy, frothing at the mouth again, I see.  What does the creation of Haganah have to do with the ethnic cleansing they performed two decades later?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, if anyone is frothing at the mouth, it is you, Haniya.  You don't even seem to come up for air.  If the Jews didn't have jobs, those poor Arabs would have stayed in their impoverished states, and if the Arab leaders didn't tell those who were living in the area to leave so that they could get at the Jews, all those Arabs would have stayed.  Those who did stay are now citizens of Israel.  I am sure all the readers know what is going on today.  Those living in America see the poor Hispanics crossing our southern border for jobs, and those Muslims from Muslim countries are flooding into Europe because their own poor countries can't offer them a living.  This is why you see desperate Muslims get into those boats which are not seaworthy and drown on their way to Europe where they hope to get jobs.  And this is the same reason you saw Arabs flooding into Israel -- for the jobs.  A while back an Egyptian offical said that the Gazans should come back to Egypt where they belonged so I guess he saw the truth -- that many poor Egyptians or their ancestors left and that now these descendents should go back where they belonged.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just spouting Zionist propaganda.  The only mass immigration was from Europe as all the British reports of the Mandatory confirm.  No sense providing the links because you will only accept Zionist propaganda and facts don't matter to you.
> 
> But get this through your thick head.  The settlers came from Europe, the Christians and Muslims of Palestine did not ask them to come.  The British imperialists promoted the mass settlement of Europeans in Palestine. That was the original sin.
Click to expand...


And what are you showing us by posting night and day and day and night -- that converts become fanatical and start spewing Arab propaganda.  You really are a joke.  Meanwhile, I will take this opportunity and go once again with what some man observed several hundred years ago since you have basically been vomiting out the same thing ad nauseam.  It's a shame that he is long gone so that you could take it up with him.

 Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians
Posted on April 27, 2014 by ADMIN20 Comments  9 Votes


by Avi Goldreich

(Translated from the Hebrew by Nurit Greenger.)

The time machine is a sensation that nests in me when I am visiting Mr. Hobber old books store in Budapest, Hungary. Hobber learned to know my quirks and after the initial greeting and the glass of mineral water (Mr. Hobber is a vegan) he leads me down the stairs to the huge basement, to the Jewish section.

The Jewish section is a room full of antiquity books on subjects that Mr. Hobber sees to be Jewish. Among the books there are some that are not even worthy their leather binding. However, sometime, one can find there real culture treasure. Many of the books are Holy Books that may have been stolen from synagogues archives: Talmud, Bible, Mishnah, old Ashkenazi style Siddur, and others. Customarily, I open them to see who the proprietor is; who was the Bar Mitzvah boy who received the book two hundred years ago and to whom did he pass the book at the end of his days. It is simply curiosity.

Continue reading at:

A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians | Palestine-Israel Conflict


----------



## Sally

Kondor3 said:


> Are we havin' fun yet?



One thing you have to say is that as entertaining as Haniya is, she had better keep her day job since I don't think they will offer her a job at the Comedy Store.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah had already attacked and expelled most of the Palestinians before any "Arab armies" ever tried to stop the ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews.  IDF intelligence reports that were declassified, confirm these facts.
> 
> 
> " a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948". This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. "At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations." To this figure, the report&#8217;s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration". A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."
> 
> The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
> 
> 
> 
> More lies, Haganah and Irgun were created after the 1929 Hebron massacre to defend the Jews against Arab animals continuing this barbaric nazi behavior led by their nazi leader the Mufti.
> 
> Moooooslems have a problem when there are consequences for their behavior.  Typical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey. Frouthy, frothing at the mouth again, I see.  What does the creation of Haganah have to do with the ethnic cleansing they performed two decades later?
Click to expand...

The village idiot refuses to admit the ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by his fellow Moooslem animals in Hebron in 1929, and is upset that Jews formed a militia right afterwards to defend themselves of said animals even decades later.  Oh well...


----------



## MJB12741

Great fun.  Endless laughs.  I'm still waiting for someone to educate me as to when Israel's land since antiquity became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing?  Heh Heh!






Kondor3 said:


> Are we havin' fun yet?


----------



## Roudy

MJB12741 said:


> Great fun.  Endless laughs.  I'm still waiting for someone to educate me as to when Israel's land since antiquity became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing?  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we havin' fun yet?
Click to expand...

Well, according to our resident asylum escapees, today's Jews are "fake" and the real Jews are the 20th century Arab invaders who started calling themselves Palestinian as of 1967.  Yup, all those Hamas terrorists waving the Koran speaking Arabic, are actually Jews!  "Believe it or not".


----------



## Billo_Really

montelatici said:


> Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine?  Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?


It is, when that's all they got! That's all they have.  They have a vested interest in making sure people hate Jews.

All they do, is trash the Pals and recite these dumbass mantra's.  Rarely does one of them actually address the points someone makes in their argument.  And that's because of one or two reasons:

they don't have a valid argument to use
they're not here to debate; they're just here to troll
And if you're not sure they're a troll, just ask them a direct question.

Trolls don't answer direct questions.  Ever.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost their homes because of war.
Click to expand...

It is illegal to acquire land by force.



> Westher it was tbe Mandatory Palestine civil war of 1947-48


It was a war between the native population and foreign settlers. I have never seen a definition of a civil war that says that.



> or the main war that was started by 5 Arab nations that attacked Israel, the 1948 Arab Israeli war.


Israeli say so. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.



> What doss any if this have to do with 'invading'
> Immigration through invitation is NOT an invasion.


Hey Toast, your neighbor invited me to live in your house.

Be sure to thank him for me, will ya?



> That's a lie used by PaliNazis to promite their agenda.


Whose agenda are you promoting with lies?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were also invited to migrate by the Ottomans in the early 1800's so will you also complain about them ?
Click to expand...


They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.

Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost their homes because of war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is illegal to acquire land by force.
> 
> 
> It was a war between the native population and foreign settlers. I have never seen a definition of a civil war that says that.
> 
> 
> Israeli say so. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What doss any if this have to do with 'invading'
> Immigration through invitation is NOT an invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey Toast, your neighbor invited me to live in your house.
> 
> Be sure to thank him for me, will ya?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lie used by PaliNazis to promite their agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose agenda are you promoting with lies?
Click to expand...





 Didn't stop the ISLAMONAZIS stealing Jewish land did it

 Which foreign settlers would that be the ISLAMONAZIS from Syria, Iraq, iran, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Yemen etc or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .

 Actually the UN says it is true, as do the arab nations that took part. It is only you that says the war was not started by the ISLAMONAZI'S


 If his neighbour owned his house he could and he could do nothing about it. In this case the Ottomans invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine because the ISLAMONAZI'S were too lazy to work. Then the LoN who were the successor land owners also invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine. 

 No lies but verifiable fact, as documented in the links you have used in the past


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were also invited to migrate by the Ottomans in the early 1800's so will you also complain about them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.
> 
> Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.
Click to expand...





 Yet you and the rest of the ISLAMONAZI'S consider the many thousands of arab muslims who arrived at a later date to be Palestinians, even though they never lived anywhere in Palestine until after 1948, 1967 and 1973.
 The demographics you rely on so much prove that the Palestinians are mostly recent migrants as it was impossible for a culture to increase their population as they did when the best they could muster was 15% live births. Your links are destroying your argument because they prove the LIE.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Didn't stop the ISLAMONAZIS stealing Jewish land did it
> 
> Which foreign settlers would that be the ISLAMONAZIS from Syria, Iraq, iran, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Yemen etc or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Actually the UN says it is true, as do the arab nations that took part. It is only you that says the war was not started by the ISLAMONAZI'S
> 
> 
> If his neighbour owned his house he could and he could do nothing about it. In this case the Ottomans invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine because the ISLAMONAZI'S were too lazy to work. Then the LoN who were the successor land owners also invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine.
> 
> No lies but verifiable fact, as documented in the links you have used in the past


O' contraire', tipesh kmo naal , that "invitation" was conditional.  You could come to Palestine, on one condition, shmenah, which Lord Balfour stated, at San Remo, in 1917...



> _&#8220;His Majesty&#8217;s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object,
> 
> it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,
> 
> or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.&#8221;
> - Arthur James Balfour [Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs] British Foreign Office, November 2nd, 1917  _


So, according to Lord Balfour, you could come over if you didn't _"prejudice the civil and religious rights of *EXISTING NON-JEWISH communities*"._

Did you do that?

Well, let's just see....



> _ *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination *...
> - *Ahad Ha'am* _


...no, you didn't!  

Therefore,  your "invitation", has been revoked!

So, Lekh Tee'Zedayen


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't stop the ISLAMONAZIS stealing Jewish land did it
> 
> Which foreign settlers would that be the ISLAMONAZIS from Syria, Iraq, iran, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Yemen etc or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Actually the UN says it is true, as do the arab nations that took part. It is only you that says the war was not started by the ISLAMONAZI'S
> 
> 
> If his neighbour owned his house he could and he could do nothing about it. In this case the Ottomans invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine because the ISLAMONAZI'S were too lazy to work. Then the LoN who were the successor land owners also invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine.
> 
> No lies but verifiable fact, as documented in the links you have used in the past
> 
> 
> 
> O' contraire', tipesh kmo naal , that "invitation" was conditional.  You could come to Palestine, on one condition, shmenah, which Lord Balfour stated, at San Remo, in 1917...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _His Majestys Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object,
> 
> it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,
> 
> or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
> - Arthur James Balfour [Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs] British Foreign Office, November 2nd, 1917  _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, according to Lord Balfour, you could come over if you didn't _"prejudice the civil and religious rights of *EXISTING NON-JEWISH communities*"._
> 
> Did you do that?
> 
> Well, let's just see....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination *...
> - *Ahad Ha'am* _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...no, you didn't!
> 
> Therefore,  your "invitation", has been revoked!
> 
> So, Lekh Tee'Zedayen
Click to expand...



 Which they did not breach, but the ISLAMOMAZI's did and brought it all on themselves. It was the ISLAMONAZI's that attacked the Jews and tried to wipe them out back in 1929. That started a civil war that neither side could ever win. And what about the invitation from the Ottomans.


 As I have already shown that is a crock of shit that you cherry picked from a large document. You ignored all the reports of ISLAMONAZI atrocities, attacks, breaches of International Law and violence.

 Now did the arab muslims abide by the same agreement that was brought by Balfour.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration with the help of the British was what it was called when the European settlers went to North America.  They didn't consider themselves invaders either.
> 
> "The 'Zionist invasion' is a Palestinian myth."
> 
> Let's see most non-Jews lost their land, their homes and were ethnically cleansed.  That is not an invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were also invited to migrate by the Ottomans in the early 1800's so will you also complain about them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.
> 
> Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.
Click to expand...

When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects, which was then designated as the future Jewish state called  Jewish Palestine. The Arabs were to get Arab Palestine, aka Jordan.  You keep repeating the same lies and historical revisionism over and over.  Again, there was no country called Palestine, the Arabs did not rule or control that land for 700 years, and had no say in what happens to it.

There were a considerable number of a Jews already living there, some going back to ancient times, the British then invited Jews from all over the world to join their brethern in their future country.  Since the Greedy Arabs could not stand a Jewish state in an ocean of Muslim shitholes, they started attacking and massacring the Jews, led by their nazi mufti leader Hussieni.  That's when the Jews took up arms and decided to defend themselves. 

True story 

www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were also invited to migrate by the Ottomans in the early 1800's so will you also complain about them ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.
> 
> Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects, which was  designated as the future Jewish state.  You keep repeating the same lies and historical revisionism over and over.  Again, the Arabs did not rule or control that land for 700 years, and had no say in what happens to it.
Click to expand...


No, you keep repeating the same old propaganda that would make it appear that the Muslim and Christians, that had lived in Palestine for over 2,000 years had less right to the land than a bunch of settlers from Europe.  Get stuffed.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.
> 
> Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects, which was  designated as the future Jewish state.  You keep repeating the same lies and historical revisionism over and over.  Again, the Arabs did not rule or control that land for 700 years, and had no say in what happens to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you keep repeating the same old propaganda that would make it appear that the Muslim and Christians, that had lived in Palestine for over 2,000 years had less right to the land than a bunch of settlers from Europe.  Get stuffed.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  Islam is only 1400 years old and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years.  And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it.  The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's.  The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.


----------



## thanatos144

montelatici said:


> Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine?  Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?



Where do you think all the European Jews came from genius?


----------



## Roudy

thanatos144 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine?  Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you think all the European Jews came from genius?
Click to expand...

Genius will tell you they're not real Jews, they're fake.  The real Jews are the Moooooslems who speak Arabic and wave the Koran while trying to kill Jews and Christians.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  Tinmore sure knows how to put his foot in his mouth.  "IT IS ILLEGAL TO ACQUIRE LAND BY FORCE."  Gosh I wonder how all the Muslim countries came into being when there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century AD?  





Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They lost their homes because of war.
> 
> 
> 
> It is illegal to acquire land by force.
> 
> 
> It was a war between the native population and foreign settlers. I have never seen a definition of a civil war that says that.
> 
> 
> Israeli say so. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.
> 
> 
> Hey Toast, your neighbor invited me to live in your house.
> 
> Be sure to thank him for me, will ya?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lie used by PaliNazis to promite their agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose agenda are you promoting with lies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't stop the ISLAMONAZIS stealing Jewish land did it
> 
> Which foreign settlers would that be the ISLAMONAZIS from Syria, Iraq, iran, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Yemen etc or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Actually the UN says it is true, as do the arab nations that took part. It is only you that says the war was not started by the ISLAMONAZI'S
> 
> 
> If his neighbour owned his house he could and he could do nothing about it. In this case the Ottomans invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine because the ISLAMONAZI'S were too lazy to work. Then the LoN who were the successor land owners also invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine.
> 
> No lies but verifiable fact, as documented in the links you have used in the past
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were also invited to migrate by the Ottomans in the early 1800's so will you also complain about them ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.
> 
> Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects, which was then designated as the future Jewish state called  Jewish Palestine. The Arabs were to get Arab Palestine, aka Jordan.  You keep repeating the same lies and historical revisionism over and over.  Again, there was no country called Palestine, the Arabs did not rule or control that land for 700 years, and had no say in what happens to it.
> 
> There were a considerable number of a Jews already living there, some going back to ancient times, the British then invited Jews from all over the world to join their brethern in their future country.  Since the Greedy Arabs could not stand a Jewish state in an ocean of Muslim shitholes, they started attacking and massacring the Jews, led by their nazi mufti leader Hussieni.  That's when the Jews took up arms and decided to defend themselves.
> 
> True story
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
Click to expand...




> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects,



Of course that is not true.



> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 92  League of Nations, Official Journal, June 1923, p. 604. For background information on this resolution, see Council of the League of Nations, Minutes of the Sixty Meeting, 20 April 1923 (id, pp. 567-72, 658-9).


----------



## thanatos144

Roudy said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine?  Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you think all the European Jews came from genius?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genius will tell you they're not real Jews, they're fake.  The real Jews are the Moooooslems who speak Arabic and wave the Koran while trying to kill Jews and Christians.
Click to expand...


LOL The youngest religion of all three


----------



## MJB12741

Fact:  All Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the native populations  had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three scenarios took place in all the stolen Muslim lands.





MJB12741 said:


> LMAO!  Tinmore sure knows how to put his foot in his mouth.  "IT IS ILLEGAL TO ACQUIRE LAND BY FORCE."  Gosh I wonder how all the Muslim countries came into being when there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century AD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is illegal to acquire land by force.
> 
> 
> It was a war between the native population and foreign settlers. I have never seen a definition of a civil war that says that.
> 
> 
> Israeli say so. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.
> 
> 
> Hey Toast, your neighbor invited me to live in your house.
> 
> Be sure to thank him for me, will ya?
> 
> 
> Whose agenda are you promoting with lies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't stop the ISLAMONAZIS stealing Jewish land did it
> 
> Which foreign settlers would that be the ISLAMONAZIS from Syria, Iraq, iran, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Yemen etc or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Actually the UN says it is true, as do the arab nations that took part. It is only you that says the war was not started by the ISLAMONAZI'S
> 
> 
> If his neighbour owned his house he could and he could do nothing about it. In this case the Ottomans invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine because the ISLAMONAZI'S were too lazy to work. Then the LoN who were the successor land owners also invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine.
> 
> No lies but verifiable fact, as documented in the links you have used in the past
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Fact:  All Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the native populations  had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three scenarios took place in all the stolen Muslim lands.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Tinmore sure knows how to put his foot in his mouth.  "IT IS ILLEGAL TO ACQUIRE LAND BY FORCE."  Gosh I wonder how all the Muslim countries came into being when there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century AD?
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't stop the ISLAMONAZIS stealing Jewish land did it
> 
> Which foreign settlers would that be the ISLAMONAZIS from Syria, Iraq, iran, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Yemen etc or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Actually the UN says it is true, as do the arab nations that took part. It is only you that says the war was not started by the ISLAMONAZI'S
> 
> If his neighbour owned his house he could and he could do nothing about it. In this case the Ottomans invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine because the ISLAMONAZI'S were too lazy to work. Then the LoN who were the successor land owners also invited the Jews to come and live in Palestine.
> 
> No lies but verifiable fact, as documented in the links you have used in the past
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




> or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .


Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.


----------



## Kondor3

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects, which was  designated as the future Jewish state.  You keep repeating the same lies and historical revisionism over and over.  Again, the Arabs did not rule or control that land for 700 years, and had no say in what happens to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you keep repeating the same old propaganda that would make it appear that the *Muslim* and Christians, that had *lived in Palestine for over 2,000 years *had less right to the land than a bunch of settlers from Europe.  Get stuffed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha ha.  *Islam is only 1400 years old* and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years.  And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it.  The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's.  The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.
Click to expand...

*<snicker>*


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  All Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the native populations  had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three scenarios took place in all the stolen Muslim lands.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Tinmore sure knows how to put his foot in his mouth.  "IT IS ILLEGAL TO ACQUIRE LAND BY FORCE."  Gosh I wonder how all the Muslim countries came into being when there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century AD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.
Click to expand...

Dunno.

But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...

Which is all that really matters, now...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  All Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the native populations  had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three scenarios took place in all the stolen Muslim lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
Click to expand...


Not even the UN claims to know that.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.
> 
> Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects, which was  designated as the future Jewish state.  You keep repeating the same lies and historical revisionism over and over.  Again, the Arabs did not rule or control that land for 700 years, and had no say in what happens to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you keep repeating the same old propaganda that would make it appear that the Muslim and Christians, that had lived in Palestine for over 2,000 years had less right to the land than a bunch of settlers from Europe.  Get stuffed.
Click to expand...




 They had no right to the land under INTERNATIONAL LAW and were incumbent on the mandate to provide for them. It would be just the same if your landlord gave your home to another person who then upped your rent, you have no right to argue the matter.

 The Jews that lived in Palestine had done so for 4,500 years and it was to them that the land was bequeathed to RESURECT THE NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS. The muslims had only had a presence there for less than 1400 years and the Christians for 1900 years. Historical fact that no amount of ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA can alter


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were and they did. They became Turkish citizens. Those citizens automatically became Palestinian citizens when Palestine was separated from Turkey. They are considered by everybody, including the Palestinians, to be a part of the native population of Palestine.
> 
> Of course this does not include the settlers who came at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects, which was then designated as the future Jewish state called  Jewish Palestine. The Arabs were to get Arab Palestine, aka Jordan.  You keep repeating the same lies and historical revisionism over and over.  Again, there was no country called Palestine, the Arabs did not rule or control that land for 700 years, and had no say in what happens to it.
> 
> There were a considerable number of a Jews already living there, some going back to ancient times, the British then invited Jews from all over the world to join their brethern in their future country.  Since the Greedy Arabs could not stand a Jewish state in an ocean of Muslim shitholes, they started attacking and massacring the Jews, led by their nazi mufti leader Hussieni.  That's when the Jews took up arms and decided to defend themselves.
> 
> True story
> 
> Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the area "Palestine" was separated from Turkey, the people then became British subjects,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course that is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> 92  League of Nations, Official Journal, June 1923, p. 604. For background information on this resolution, see Council of the League of Nations, Minutes of the Sixty Meeting, 20 April 1923 (id, pp. 567-72, 658-9).
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




 Then why were they issued with British passports and not Palestinian ones.

 Why are you missing most of the report from your reply, is it because it says that the people are stateless until they show they are capable of governing themselves. But in a way you are correct they did not become British subjects they became British Palestinian subjects

 Unless you can show a treaty signed by the Ottomans and Palestinians giving the land to the Palestinian government. You know like the one between the Ottomans and the LoN


----------



## RoccoR

Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741,  _et al,_

Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."

And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.



Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  All Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the native populations  had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three scenarios took place in all the stolen Muslim lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered.  And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the _de facto_ power of sovereignty
after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  This _de facto_ power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.

At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan.   The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.

During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination).  And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.  In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.

During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988.  And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.

While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank.  Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank.  However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem _(a separate trusteeship)_ by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old Citys Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of _Al-Buraq_ (the Western Wall).  Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital.  East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact:  All Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the native populations  had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three scenarios took place in all the stolen Muslim lands.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Tinmore sure knows how to put his foot in his mouth.  "IT IS ILLEGAL TO ACQUIRE LAND BY FORCE."  Gosh I wonder how all the Muslim countries came into being when there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century AD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or the ones invited over by the lands OWNERS .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.
Click to expand...





 Under treaty the Ottomans signed over sovereignty of the land to the LoN at the treaty of Sevres.   As stated in Article 95

 The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22,* the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers*, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, *or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.*


 Just for emphasis to show that the Jews were badly treated by the arab muslims.     And can you see where the borders of Palestine had not been officially agreed by the LoN


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even the UN claims to know that.
Click to expand...




 Lets just say that since August 10 1920 the land was owned under treaty by the LoN until may 14 1948 when Israel invoked Un resolution 181 and declared independence. It is all detailed in the many treaties signed since the end of WW1. Under International law at the time land could be won in war which is why large parts of Germany were taken by the allied powers.


----------



## montelatici

i And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.

The Jews can't show any sovereignty over the territory for more than 2,000 years.  There's the rub.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even the UN claims to know that.
Click to expand...

It's not the UN's business to know...

And never was...


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> i And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> The Jews can't show any sovereignty over the territory for more than 2,000 years.  There's the rub.


The rub is the term Palestinian referred to Jews who maintained a presence in the homeland of their ancestors, and it was then hijacked by Egyptian born and raised Yasser Arafat leader of the Palestinian Bowel Movement. LOL


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> i And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> The Jews can't show any sovereignty over the territory for more than 2,000 years.  There's the rub.





 And how long have the muslims been around ?

 The Jews have been in the area for 4,500 years, the Christians for 2,000 years and the muslims  for less than 1400 years. FACT that you cant dispute, making the muslims claim the weakest of the 3 . 

 The fact remains that the arab muslims had no land title when the Ottomans destroyed them and took the land. They lost the land in 1919 and it was taken by the LoN as reparations for WW2.


----------



## aris2chat

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the UN claims to know that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets just say that since August 10 1920 the land was owned under treaty by the LoN until may 14 1948 when Israel invoked Un resolution 181 and declared independence. It is all detailed in the many treaties signed since the end of WW1. Under International law at the time land could be won in war which is why large parts of Germany were taken by the allied powers.
Click to expand...


Russia acquired vast land and imposed their political views on states they took from the nazis.  Yugoslavia was another as well as China.

If you have a state that is financially failing/failed, vs a state occupied/annexed/claimed by another state that makes it prosperous and improves the right of those living there, which one is better for the world?
Children go out and try to become independent, but too many fall into the world of drugs, prostitution, gangs or other crimes just to get by.  Were they not better off at home?  Would they not be better off in some home and walked through the process of establishing themselves with a roof, job, transportation, financial planning and if necessary rehab and/or other guidance counseling.  Some children might never be able to live on their own and will always need help.
This ideal of self determination has to be reasonable with some vision of how they will run the state and seek to best economy to support all their people.  Right now the PA and G are fiscal failures and a drain on the world economy.


----------



## MJB12741

If Israel ever gave the Palestinians their own land with total self determination, the Palestinians would no longer be able to suck off of Israel to provide for them & would commit a self genocide upon themselves.  I vote yes for Israel to give in to this Palestinian demand. 



QUOTE=aris2chat;9139752]





Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the UN claims to know that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets just say that since August 10 1920 the land was owned under treaty by the LoN until may 14 1948 when Israel invoked Un resolution 181 and declared independence. It is all detailed in the many treaties signed since the end of WW1. Under International law at the time land could be won in war which is why large parts of Germany were taken by the allied powers.
Click to expand...


Russia acquired vast land and imposed their political views on states they took from the nazis.  Yugoslavia was another as well as China.

If you have a state that is financially failing/failed, vs a state occupied/annexed/claimed by another state that makes it prosperous and improves the right of those living there, which one is better for the world?
Children go out and try to become independent, but too many fall into the world of drugs, prostitution, gangs or other crimes just to get by.  Were they not better off at home?  Would they not be better off in some home and walked through the process of establishing themselves with a roof, job, transportation, financial planning and if necessary rehab and/or other guidance counseling.  Some children might never be able to live on their own and will always need help.
This ideal of self determination has to be reasonable with some vision of how they will run the state and seek to best economy to support all their people.  Right now the PA and G are fiscal failures and a drain on the world economy.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> i And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> The Jews can't show any sovereignty over the territory for more than 2,000 years.  There's the rub.




 And the arab muslims can only show 21 years of sovereignty before getting kicked out, and it looks like they never will get any sovereignty of the land


 Guess what child the Jews have held the land for longer than the arab muslims had, and it gets right up your nose.


----------



## Lipush

Kondor3 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you keep repeating the same old propaganda that would make it appear that the *Muslim* and Christians, that had *lived in Palestine for over 2,000 years *had less right to the land than a bunch of settlers from Europe.  Get stuffed.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha.  *Islam is only 1400 years old* and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years.  And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it.  The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's.  The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *<snicker>*
Click to expand...


Gotcha.

MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)


----------



## Lipush

Roudy said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Do you deny that the Zionist settlers came from Europe and eventually displaced the Christians and Muslims living in Palestine?  Just stating fact is Jew hate to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you think all the European Jews came from genius?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genius will tell you they're not real Jews, they're fake.  The real Jews are the Moooooslems who speak Arabic and wave the Koran while trying to kill Jews and Christians.
Click to expand...


----------



## Lipush

Vigilante said:


>



Sorry I can't rep you for that post, but....GENIUS!!!


----------



## MJB12741

Monte is so funny.  Bless him for all the laughs he gives us.  Heh Heh!





Lipush said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha.  *Islam is only 1400 years old* and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years.  And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it.  The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's.  The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.
> 
> 
> 
> *<snicker>*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

And here I never even knew that Muslims lived in the land *FOR OVER 2000 YEARS.*






MJB12741 said:


> Monte is so funny.  Bless him for all the laughs he gives us.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *<snicker>*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."
> 
> And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the land owners? Neither the LoN nor the mandates took possession of any land.
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered.  And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the _de facto_ power of sovereignty
> after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  This _de facto_ power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan.   The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.
> 
> During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination).  And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.  In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> 
> During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988.  And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.
> 
> While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank.  Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank.  However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem _(a separate trusteeship)_ by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old Citys Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of _Al-Buraq_ (the Western Wall).  Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital.  East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.

Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."
> 
> And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered.  And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the _de facto_ power of sovereignty
> after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  This _de facto_ power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan.   The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.
> 
> During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination).  And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.  In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> 
> During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988.  And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.
> 
> While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank.  Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank.  However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem _(a separate trusteeship)_ by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old Citys Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of _Al-Buraq_ (the Western Wall).  Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital.  East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.
Click to expand...





 And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations *exercised the de facto power of sovereignty*after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  *This de facto power of sovereignty* was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.


So there we have it the land was never arab Palestinian so they cant claim statehood without the land owners express permission. This was done through the UN resolution 181 which the Palestinian arab muslims rejected out of hand. 

 Now how about the Jews rights to sovereignty in Palestine, after all they were the next largest ethnic group that lived there. Or are you rejecting their rights on the grounds that illegal arab muslim migrants wanted to steal their land and females . Not once have you shown any comprehension that the Palestinian Jews had just as much right to declare independence on the land they inhabited, care to explain why this is ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."
> 
> And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered.  And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the _de facto_ power of sovereignty
> after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  This _de facto_ power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan.   The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.
> 
> During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination).  And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.  In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> 
> During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988.  And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.
> 
> While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank.  Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank.  However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem _(a separate trusteeship)_ by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old Citys Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of _Al-Buraq_ (the Western Wall).  Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital.  East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations *exercised the de facto power of sovereignty*after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  *This de facto power of sovereignty* was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> 
> So there we have it the land was never arab Palestinian so they cant claim statehood without the land owners express permission. This was done through the UN resolution 181 which the Palestinian arab muslims rejected out of hand.
> 
> Now how about the Jews rights to sovereignty in Palestine, after all they were the next largest ethnic group that lived there. Or are you rejecting their rights on the grounds that illegal arab muslim migrants wanted to steal their land and females . Not once have you shown any comprehension that the Palestinian Jews had just as much right to declare independence on the land they inhabited, care to explain why this is ?
Click to expand...


Thank you.



> *exercised the de facto power of sovereignty*
> 
> *This de facto power of sovereignty*



*de facto...de facto

Imposed by military force.*

Real sovereignty is not imposed.


----------



## MJB12741

The Palestinian rejection of UN resolution 181 made in unbinding whereby they lost big time.  Not too bright, are they?







Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."
> 
> And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered.  And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the _de facto_ power of sovereignty
> after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  This _de facto_ power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan.   The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.
> 
> During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination).  And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.  In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> 
> During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988.  And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.
> 
> While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank.  Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank.  However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem _(a separate trusteeship)_ by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old City&#146;s Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of _Al-Buraq_ (the Western Wall).  Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital.  East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations *exercised the de facto power of sovereignty*after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  *This de facto power of sovereignty* was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> 
> So there we have it the land was never arab Palestinian so they cant claim statehood without the land owners express permission. This was done through the UN resolution 181 which the Palestinian arab muslims rejected out of hand.
> 
> Now how about the Jews rights to sovereignty in Palestine, after all they were the next largest ethnic group that lived there. Or are you rejecting their rights on the grounds that illegal arab muslim migrants wanted to steal their land and females . Not once have you shown any comprehension that the Palestinian Jews had just as much right to declare independence on the land they inhabited, care to explain why this is ?
Click to expand...


----------



## montelatici

Lipush said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha.  *Islam is only 1400 years old* and Arabs were not in control of the land for 700 years.  And not many Turks migrated to the area either, although they ruled it.  The Arabs are recent 20th century invaders which is evidenced by Jews being majority population in Jerusalem in 1800's to early 1900's.  The Arabs have always been the invaders all over the Middle East. That's what they were good at.
> 
> 
> 
> *<snicker>*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)
Click to expand...


You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.

Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *<snicker>*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.
> 
> Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.
Click to expand...

*Try looking more closely at an objective analysis of DNA spot-checking within the centuries-old families of Old Palestine...*

Genetic markers for Hebrew ancestry.

Generic markers for Canaanite ancestry.

Genetic markers for Egyptian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Greek ancestry.

Genetic markers for Persian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Assyrian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Samaritan ancestry.

Genetic markers for Byzantine-Thracian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Turkic ancestry.

Genetic markers for Ethiopian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Mongolian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Babylonian-Sumerian ancestry.

Genetic markers for Phoenician ancestry.

Genetic markers for European Crusader (Frankish, Anglo-Saxon, etc.) ancestry.

Genetic markers for Bedouin ancestry.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... in other words... Mutts.

*Then look at the genetic markers for that segment of the population who are not members of centuries-old families of Old Palestine...
*
Strong genetic markers for Egyptian recent ancestry.

Strong genetic markers for Jordanian recent ancestry.

Strong genetic markers for Lebanese recent ancestry.

Strong genetic markers for Syrian recent ancestry.

Strong generic markers for Bedouin recent ancestry.

In other words, first- and second- and third-generation descendants of the large numbers of Muslims who flooded into Old Palestine since the late 19th Century A.D., looking for work, largely fueled by businesses and concerns created by Jewish immigrant farmers and merchants.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... in other words, Newcomers, with very little legitimate claim on the lands of Old Palestine, never mind what's left of Rump Palestine.

------------

And all that recited from memory, rather than bothering to find somebody else's words to copy.

An adequate level of understanding and objectivity on that subject matter, I trust, to avoid the appellation 'ignorant'.


----------



## Lipush

montelatici said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *<snicker>*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.
> 
> Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.
Click to expand...


No, they arent's.

They're clans who immigrated in mass numbers in the beginning of the 20st century, most of them.

Do some history checking yourself, dude.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."
> 
> And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno.
> 
> But I can tell you who the land owners are *NOW*...
> 
> Which is all that really matters, now...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered.  And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the _de facto_ power of sovereignty
> after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  This _de facto_ power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan.   The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.
> 
> During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination).  And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.  In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> 
> During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988.  And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.
> 
> While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank.  Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank.  However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem _(a separate trusteeship)_ by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old Citys Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of _Al-Buraq_ (the Western Wall).  Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital.  East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.
Click to expand...


Again with violations of peoples rights?? What rights were violated?

As for Roccos post, what did he say that you find incorrect? I read it and everything he posted seems to be truthful.


----------



## jillian

montelatici said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *<snicker>*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> MORON (Him, not you guys, obviously)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do realize that the Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the same people that were living in Palestine as followers of the Roman Religions, Samaritan, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and probably other religions and sects.
> 
> Try to read some serious historical texts rather than spouting off what you have read propaganda-wise. You are quite an ignorant bunch.
Click to expand...


you just keep making up whatever you feel like, don't you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3, P F Tinmore, MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> Clearly, what we are talking about here is not land "ownership;" but, rather "sovereignty."
> 
> And while Arabs like descendants can show that they were a significant indigenous population in the territory, with civil land "ownership," they cannot show much of any control over territorial "sovereignty" going back six of seven centuries.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers and the League of Nations took trusteeship (not ownership) of the territory from the sovereign power (Ottoman Empire) when it was surrendered.  And the Allied Powers and the League of Nations exercised the _de facto_ power of sovereignty
> after forfeiture by the Empire after the war.  This _de facto_ power of sovereignty was exercised over the territory by their agent, the UK, through the instrument known as a Mandate; a set of instructions written by the Allied Powers and League of Nations.
> 
> At no time, during the active period of the Mandate, did any Arab Power have sovereign control of the territory UNTIL March 1946; when HRH, Emir Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, ending the Mandate over the territory east of the Jordan River --- and gaining full independence for Transjordan.   The following May, the Parliament voted create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan with HM King Abdullah as Head of State.
> 
> During the 1967 War, the West Bank was sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; occupied at the end of the 1948/49 War and annexed in 1950 by Jordanian Parliament --- in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented (right of self-determination).  And while the argument of recognition is often raised, it should be noted that the population of the West Bank did not oppose the annexation and it remained sovereign territory of the Hashemite Kingdom until July 1988, HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.  In the mean time, as a result of the 1967 War, as a matter of combat outcome for their participation in the Arab War Effort, Jordan lost control of the West Bank with it forces pushed back across to the East side of the Jordan River; and the West Bank became Jordanian territory occupied by Israel.
> 
> During occupation and a few months after HM announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), recognized as the sole representative of the Palestinian People, declared Independence in November 1988.  And again, the Palestinian People exercised their right of self-determination; unopposed by the Israeli Government, but still occupied territory.
> 
> While there has been, under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, the failure of that withdrawal to secure peace and stability out of the Hostile Arab Palestinians, contributed greatly to successive decisions not to withdraw from the West Bank.  Unlike the Jordanians, Israel has not annexed any territory in the West Bank.  However, Israel unilaterally expanded the boundaries of Jerusalem _(a separate trusteeship)_ by annexing some 70 sq kilometes to the municipal boundaries of the West Bank area and evicting over 6,000 Palestinians from the Old Citys Mughrabi Quarter in order to create a plaza in front of _Al-Buraq_ (the Western Wall).  Israel then declared Jerusalem its capital.  East Jerusalem was annexed shortly after the war in a move that has not been recognized by the international community or the Palestinians.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again with violations of peoples rights?? What rights were violated?
> 
> As for Roccos post, what did he say that you find incorrect? I read it and everything he posted seems to be truthful.
Click to expand...


The right to self determination without external interference.

The right to independence.

The right to sovereignty.

The right to territorial integrity.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

I don't equate "military control" with "sovereignty."  That would be "occupation."



P F Tinmore said:


> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.


*(COMMENT)*

Here, you are talking about a "belligerent occupation."



P F Tinmore said:


> The right to self determination without external interference.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, the Palestinians of the West Bank, with representation in the Jordanian Parliament, voted for annexation. 



P F Tinmore said:


> The right to independence.


*(COMMENT)*

Right, the PLO, the sole representative of the Palestinian, declared independence.



P F Tinmore said:


> The right to sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians haven't been able to put this together yet.  They have not pursued in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.



P F Tinmore said:


> The right to territorial integrity.


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

Which one of these did you object to --- again.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> The right to self determination without external interference.
> 
> The right to independence.
> 
> The right to sovereignty.
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.


You are absolutely correct.

They already have this.

It's called Jordan nowadays.

What are you still doing on Jewish land?

"_What's your dirt doin' in Boss Hog's yard, Luke?_"


----------



## MJB12741

OMG!  Do you have some kind of death warrant for Palestinians?  Just look what happened when Israel granted their demand for a Jew free Gaza without having Israel to suck off of any longer for their well being.  Palestinians massacred Palestinians in record numbers.  Give them a Palestinian State with self determination & they will commit self genocide on themselves.  





P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> Although much of what you post is true (there are some things that are not true) you form your conclusions on false premise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again with violations of peoples rights?? What rights were violated?
> 
> As for Roccos post, what did he say that you find incorrect? I read it and everything he posted seems to be truthful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.
> 
> The right to independence.
> 
> The right to sovereignty.
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> I don't equate "military control" with "sovereignty."  That would be "occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Here, you are talking about a "belligerent occupation."
Click to expand...

Indeed, Palestine was born under belligerent occupation that continues today.



> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, the Palestinians of the West Bank, with representation in the Jordanian Parliament, voted for annexation.
Click to expand...

There are a few things wrong with this assumption.



> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Right, the PLO, the sole representative of the Palestinian, declared independence.


OK, but Palestine is still occupied.



> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't been able to put this together yet.  They have not pursued in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.
Click to expand...

The occupied people must disarm while the occupying power keeps its military?

What kind of crap is that?

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Which one of these did you object to --- again.
Click to expand...

*Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?



> Most Respectfully,
> R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> I don't equate "military control" with "sovereignty."  That would be "occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to think that military control equals sovereignty. Alien domination like occupation and colonization are violations of the people's right to sovereignty. Since these counter the people's right to sovereignty they must be imposed by military force.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Here, you are talking about a "belligerent occupation."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Palestine was born under belligerent occupation that continues today.
> 
> 
> There are a few things wrong with this assumption.
> 
> 
> OK, but Palestine is still occupied.
> 
> 
> The occupied people must disarm while the occupying power keeps its military?
> 
> What kind of crap is that?
> 
> 4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.
> 
> 5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Which one of these did you object to --- again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Actually, the Palestinians don't have to disarm. They also don't have to renounce terrorism. In fact, they don't have to change anything they're doing.

But if they don't, things will remain the same for the Palestinians.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore;  _et al,_

Not much to go on here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, Palestine was born under belligerent occupation that continues today.
> 
> There are a few things wrong with this assumption.
> 
> OK, but Palestine is still occupied.
> 
> The occupied people must disarm while the occupying power keeps its military?
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration[/indent]
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, the Palestinians are "occupied" in the West Bank.  But it was not colonized.  That is simply grasping at straws --- a fools errand, and subterfuge.  

Relative to the West Bank, the international boundaries are attested to in Article 3 - International Boundary, 1994 Treaty between Israel - and - Jordan. 



			
				 EXCERPT Page 114:  Report prepared and edited by Tristan Ferraro
Legal adviser said:
			
		

> The experts also pointed out that differences in the level of control exerted by the occupant within the occupied territory would have an impact on choosing the model to be applied.  The implementation of law-and-order activities would require a significant degree of control over the area or situation under scrutiny. *The experts argued that variations in control in the occupied territory, as exemplified by the Oslo agreements between the Palestine Liberation Organization and Israel, would inevitably require the occupying power to reconsider its responses to threats posed by insurgent armed groups.* _According to some participants, in areas of operation where the occupying power was *firmly in control, application of the law enforcement model was indicated*. On the other hand, some experts were of the view that *the conduct-of-hostilities model should apply in areas where occupying forces have less control*,_ where it would be very difficult to capture members of enemy forces without exposing the occupying troops to increased risks and where the immediate danger posed by the enemy would be greater.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ THEORIES AND CONDITIONS FOR DETERMINING THE LEGAL MODEL APPLICABLE, ICRC Report Meeting of Experts, March 2012



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

_Yes, the Palestinians are "occupied" in the West Bank. But it was not colonized._

What is the difference between building settlements and populating them with colonists, from colonization?  Just wondering.


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici;  _et al,_

Sensible question.



montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> _Yes, the Palestinians are "occupied" in the West Bank. But it was not colonized._
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between building settlements and populating them with colonists, from colonization?  Just wondering.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Colonization specifically is the subjugation _(act of forcing into submission)_ of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty.  (See General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960)  

Occupation may be defined as the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. This definition derives from Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907, which states that Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  It does not deny self-determination.​
Two different concepts and two different sets of international laws.  Colonies are not subject to the ICRC Geneva Convention.  The people are on protected persons, by fall under the laws of the Colonial Power.  In contrast, Occupied Territories extent a measure of protection to the populace under occupation and effective control.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

RoccoR said:


> montelatici;  _et al,_
> 
> Sensible question.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> _Yes, the Palestinians are "occupied" in the West Bank. But it was not colonized._
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between building settlements and populating them with colonists, from colonization?  Just wondering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Colonization specifically is the subjugation _(act of forcing into submission)_ of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty.  (See General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960)
> 
> Occupation may be defined as the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. This definition derives from Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907, which states that Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  It does not deny self-determination.​
> Two different concepts and two different sets of international laws.  Colonies are not subject to the ICRC Geneva Convention.  The people are on protected persons, by fall under the laws of the Colonial Power.  In contrast, Occupied Territories extent a measure of protection to the populace under occupation and effective control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


_Colonization specifically is the subjugation (act of forcing into submission) of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty_

Well, that's exactly what the Jews are doing.  Sei un buffone, e un terrone ignorante.  Si vede da quello che scrivi.


----------



## MJB12741

The settlements are on land captured during a war to annihilate Israel.  Do you think maybe the Arabs made a bad miscalculation & the Palestinians got screwed by their own Arab brothers in the surrounding Arab countries?





montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici;  _et al,_
> 
> Sensible question.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between building settlements and populating them with colonists, from colonization?  Just wondering.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Colonization specifically is the subjugation _(act of forcing into submission)_ of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty.  (See General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960)
> 
> Occupation may be defined as the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. This definition derives from Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907, which states that Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  It does not deny self-determination.​
> Two different concepts and two different sets of international laws.  Colonies are not subject to the ICRC Geneva Convention.  The people are on protected persons, by fall under the laws of the Colonial Power.  In contrast, Occupied Territories extent a measure of protection to the populace under occupation and effective control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Colonization specifically is the subjugation (act of forcing into submission) of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty_
> 
> Well, that's exactly what the Jews are doing.  Sei un buffone, e un terrone ignorante.  Si vede da quello che scrivi.
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

montelatici,  _et al,_

Not even close.



montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici;  _et al,_
> 
> Sensible question.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between building settlements and populating them with colonists, from colonization?  Just wondering.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Colonization specifically is the subjugation _(act of forcing into submission)_ of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty.  (See General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960)
> 
> Occupation may be defined as the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. This definition derives from Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907, which states that Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  It does not deny self-determination.​
> Two different concepts and two different sets of international laws.  Colonies are not subject to the ICRC Geneva Convention.  The people are on protected persons, by fall under the laws of the Colonial Power.  In contrast, Occupied Territories extent a measure of protection to the populace under occupation and effective control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Colonization specifically is the subjugation (act of forcing into submission) of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty_
> 
> Well, that's exactly what the Jews are doing.  Sei un buffone, e un terrone ignorante.  Si vede da quello che scrivi.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Under Israeli Occupation, the Palestinian's were allow to Declare Independence _(the most direct example in the right of self-determination)_.

Under Israeli Occupation, the Palestinian Enemy Population is placed under the effective control,  quarantine, and containment to prevent acts of violence against the people of Israel, to separate the Israeli citizens from further Palestinian criminal activity, and to protect the integrity of Israeli sovereign territory.

The Settlement, as discussed earlier, are a matter under the Article V, Permanent Status Negotiations, Oslo Accord; best settled under those processes or new processes established under A/RES/25/2625.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> montelatici;  _et al,_
> 
> Sensible question.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> _Yes, the Palestinians are "occupied" in the West Bank. But it was not colonized._
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between building settlements and populating them with colonists, from colonization?  Just wondering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Colonization specifically is the subjugation _(act of forcing into submission)_ of a people or the claim to territory - which involves the denial of the right to self-determination and the extension of foreign sovereignty.  (See General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960)
> 
> Occupation may be defined as the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. This definition derives from Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907, which states that Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.  It does not deny self-determination.​
> Two different concepts and two different sets of international laws.  Colonies are not subject to the ICRC Geneva Convention.  The people are on protected persons, by fall under the laws of the Colonial Power.  In contrast, Occupied Territories extent a measure of protection to the populace under occupation and effective control.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


It is interesting that Israel fits squarely into both of those categories.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You are losing it!



P F Tinmore said:


> It is interesting that Israel fits squarely into both of those categories.


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians either have a Arab State of Palestine, with a Settlement Issue; or, they are under the sovereign protection as a colony of Israel; which negates entirely the settlement issue and the protected persons status.

It cannot be the case that both are true, simultaneously.

You are attempting to use "colonialism" as a means of subterfuge; but, in doing so, you are actually arguing that Israel has a greater degree of standing in the territories than they have.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MJB12741

I agree with Tinmore to the extent that the Palestinians should have their own Palestinian State with self determination void of any intervention by Israel.  Wouldn't that be wonderful, especially for Israel without having the Palestinians suck off of Israel for their well being?  The question is WHERE can this be as no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?  Any suggestions as to where to free the Palestinians from Israel's bondage of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions keeping them in Israel?







RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You are losing it!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that Israel fits squarely into both of those categories.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians either have a Arab State of Palestine, with a Settlement Issue; or, they are under the sovereign protection as a colony of Israel; which negates entirely the settlement issue and the protected persons status.
> 
> It cannot be the case that both are true, simultaneously.
> 
> You are attempting to use "colonialism" as a means of subterfuge; but, in doing so, you are actually arguing that Israel has a greater degree of standing in the territories than they have.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:
			
		

> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to *violate the existing international boundaries of another State* or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Which one of these did you object to --- again.
Click to expand...


*Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to *violate the existing international boundaries of another State* or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Which one of these did you object to --- again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?
Click to expand...


Jordan's for starters followed by Egypt's and Lebanon's. I cant say Israel's because Israel does not have any borders with Palestine  because Palestine refuses to negotiate them.
 In fact their attacks on sovereign nations are so bad the nations have asked Israel to help out by patrolling their borders with Palestine to stop the terror attacks.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to *violate the existing international boundaries of another State* or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Which one of these did you object to --- again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?
Click to expand...




 Jordanm Lebanon and Egypt for starters, they also violated Germanies, Britains, Americas and most of Europes.


----------



## Kondor3

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to *violate the existing international boundaries of another State* or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Which one of these did you object to --- again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordanm Lebanon and Egypt for starters, they also violated Germanies, Britains, Americas and most of Europes.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the boundaries of humanity, decency, common sense, and good taste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





A tacky, low-brow folk...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Palestinians haven't assumed the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to *violate the existing international boundaries of another State* or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> Which one of these did you object to --- again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan's for starters followed by Egypt's and Lebanon's.* I cant say Israel's because Israel does not have any borders with Palestine  because Palestine refuses to negotiate them.*
> In fact their attacks on sovereign nations are so bad the nations have asked Israel to help out by patrolling their borders with Palestine to stop the terror attacks.
Click to expand...


Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan's for starters followed by Egypt's and Lebanon's.* I cant say Israel's because Israel does not have any borders with Palestine  because Palestine refuses to negotiate them.*
> In fact their attacks on sovereign nations are so bad the nations have asked Israel to help out by patrolling their borders with Palestine to stop the terror attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.
Click to expand...




 They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan's for starters followed by Egypt's and Lebanon's.* I cant say Israel's because Israel does not have any borders with Palestine  because Palestine refuses to negotiate them.*
> In fact their attacks on sovereign nations are so bad the nations have asked Israel to help out by patrolling their borders with Palestine to stop the terror attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders
Click to expand...


The Palestinians rejected the proposed change in their international borders in 1947 and they had the right to do that.

There is no requirement for the Palestinians to negotiate any change in their borders.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Again,* what international boundaries have the Palestinians violated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan's for starters followed by Egypt's and Lebanon's.* I cant say Israel's because Israel does not have any borders with Palestine  because Palestine refuses to negotiate them.*
> In fact their attacks on sovereign nations are so bad the nations have asked Israel to help out by patrolling their borders with Palestine to stop the terror attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.
Click to expand...


Palestine does not have any borders


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan's for starters followed by Egypt's and Lebanon's.* I cant say Israel's because Israel does not have any borders with Palestine  because Palestine refuses to negotiate them.*
> In fact their attacks on sovereign nations are so bad the nations have asked Israel to help out by patrolling their borders with Palestine to stop the terror attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have any borders
Click to expand...


I have proven many times that it does.

Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have any borders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have proven many times that it does.
> 
> Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?
Click to expand...

Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have any borders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have proven many times that it does.
> 
> Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.
Click to expand...


Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.


----------



## MJB12741

Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan.  Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan.  Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?



Israel negotiated Palestinian borders with Egypt and Jordan?

Where did any of them get the authority to do that?


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan.


Borders don't mean shit to Israel.

They are constantly violating the air space of sovereign nations, attacking vessels in international waters and are presently trying to annex land (they have no clear title to) by force. 



MJB12741 said:


> Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?


The ones they've been living in for the past 2000 years.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have proven many times that it does.
> 
> Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.

Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.
> 
> Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter. Non self governing territories have the right to territorial integrity, i.e. the people have sovereignty over their borders.


----------



## Indeependent

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.



The Palestinians have never lost any land.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders


A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything.  Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end.  You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war.  You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war.  You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied.  This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.


> _(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​_


It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave.  Period.

For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force.  Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place.  Which was also stated in 242.


> _Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...​_


In summary, there is nothing to negotiate.  Israel needs to leave.  They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.


God does not favor narcissistic assholes, who walk around thinking their shit don't stink!

Those are the ones God sends straight to hell!


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

I have to chuckle here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never lost any land.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In regards to the post-conflict of 1967 --- and forward --- I have to agree.

Now, if we could only get that in some recognized form.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never lost any land.
Click to expand...

That's not what _your own_ propaganda maps say...


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.
> 
> Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Non self governing territories have the right to territorial integrity, i.e. the people have sovereignty over their borders.
Click to expand...

In the law books, yeah, maybe.

In the real world, only if they have the courage and muscle to make that happen.

Nature does not favor the Skeddadler.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never lost any land.
Click to expand...


After the 1948 Arab Israeli war, Israel has captured 50% of the land allotted to them in the partition plan. This land is now inside the green line, making it Israels land. Even the PA recognizes it as part of Israel.
So yea, the Palestinians did lose land. Lots of it too


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really; _et al,_

If the UNSC Resolution 242 (1967) for half a century ago, is all you have, you need to develop a better sense of humor.



Billo_Really said:


> A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything.  Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end.  You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war.  You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war.  You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied.  This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.
> 
> 
> 
> _(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​_
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave.  Period.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You forgot the (ii) in that quote:



			
				Security Council Resolution 242 said:
			
		

> 1.	Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
> 
> (i)	Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
> 
> (ii)	Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;​



Since the time this Resolution was passed, there has been the 1973 Yom Kipper War, the two Intifada, Palestinian Independence, the Oslo Accords, two Peace Treaties, etc ...

Anyone that doesn't think these have a bearing and impact on the ground conditions is simply foolish.



Billo_Really said:


> For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force.  Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place.  Which was also stated in 242.


*(COMMENT)*

For the Palestinian (any flavor) to raise the issue of the spirit behind the UN Charter as a justification, is simply ridiculous.  The "spirit" of the Charter is "To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means."  It has been, since 1948, a fact that the Arabs (almost all flavors) have used other than peaceful means as the instrument of dispute resolution.  Just as they claimed then --- they claim now; "by all means necessary."  The mantra of the Palestinian is:  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."

In more than half a century, the Palestinians have not once renounced hostilities in favor of peace:



			
				Motesem al-Minawi said:
			
		

> Gaza's Hamas authorities have blocked a UN refugee agency from introducing textbooks promoting human rights into local schools, saying it ignores Palestinian cultural mores and focuses too heavily on "peaceful" means of conflict resolution.
> 
> He said the textbooks, used in grades 7 through 9, did not sufficiently address Palestinian suffering and did not acknowledge the right to battle Israel. "There is a tremendous focus on the peaceful resistance as the only tool to achieve freedom and independence," he said.





Billo_Really said:


> _Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...​_
> 
> 
> 
> In summary, there is nothing to negotiate.  Israel needs to leave.  They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Our friend "Billo_Really" is correct.  There is nothing to negotiate until the Palestinian is will to adhere to the "Spirit of the Charter" and "settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered;" renouncing armed struggle and "jihad."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians rejected the proposed change in their international borders in 1947 and they had the right to do that.
> 
> There is no requirement for the Palestinians to negotiate any change in their borders.
Click to expand...





 Why didn't they start a war with Syria and Transjordan then when the change in the International borders were made to make these two Islamic nations. That was the end of palestines international borders as far as INTERNATIONAL LAW was concerned.

 Unless you can produce the treaties made between the Palestinian government and the Syrian and Transjordan governments that negotiated the new International borders.

 There is every need for the Palestinians to negotiate their borders, they signed to the UN charter and this means that the charter is binding on them. Plus they have only been a sovereign state since 1988, before this they had no legal entity, the treaty that defined the mandates borders expressly omitted Palestine from its details as the parties were not concerned with a handful of itinerant arab muslim vagabonds. read all the treaties you are fond of linking to and see were they say these are palestines international borders


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders
> 
> 
> 
> A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything.  Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end.  You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war.  You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war.  You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied.  This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.
> 
> 
> 
> _(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave.  Period.
> 
> For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force.  Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place.  Which was also stated in 242.
> 
> 
> 
> _Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...​_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In summary, there is nothing to negotiate.  Israel needs to leave.  They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.
Click to expand...



'Israel needs to leave'

Of else what?? You're gonna ask Obama to send Marines to kick them out??


And as I've already said a million times, occupations don't end until there is a peace treaty between the belligerents involved. In others words, Israel is NOT MOVING ANYWHERE until there is a cessation if hostilities.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine does not have any borders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have proven many times that it does.
> 
> Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?
Click to expand...




 Actually you haven't, all you have proven is that you cant read English. The treaties you use as evidence omit the term Palestine deliberately, and this is explained in the authors explanation of the treaty. They had to define the areas that were to become Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan so called them all Palestine so they did not upset the two Saudi arab princes that were to get Syria and Transjordan.

 Now show from a non Islamic source were the present day Palestine has International borders that are in a treaty signed by the Palestinian leadership


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have proven many times that it does.
> 
> Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.
Click to expand...





 Only for about a year and then the arab muslims deleted them when they took over Syria and Transjordan


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan.  Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel negotiated Palestinian borders with Egypt and Jordan?
> 
> Where did any of them get the authority to do that?
Click to expand...




 From the International acceptance of Israel and Jordan as nations and their showing of self determination and ability to stand on their own. The Palestinians are still unable to show they have any self determination or are capable of standing on their own feet.
 You forget that Palestine has only been recognised as a nation since 1988, before this they were stateless people.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Borders don't mean shit to Israel.
> 
> They are constantly violating the air space of sovereign nations, attacking vessels in international waters and are presently trying to annex land (they have no clear title to) by force.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones they've been living in for the past 2000 years.
Click to expand...





Another moron that thinks the arab muslims have been around for 2000 years. Under the ottomans Palestine was devoid of arab muslims as the land was too hard for them to work. 
 By the way have you read the Geneva conventions yet, when you do try reading the Maritime regulations to see who can stop a vessel suspected of smuggling contraband on the high seas.

 A clue is in the fact that the USA does it in waters thousands of miles away from America to help in the control of drug smuggling and gun running.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.
> 
> Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. Non self governing territories have the right to territorial integrity, i.e. the people have sovereignty over their borders.
Click to expand...





 Does that include the 500,000 Jews that lived in Palestine, did they have sovereignty over their borders as well. Or are you once again going to deny the Jews the same rights you uphold illegally for the arab muslim illegal migrants to Palestine. The  Jews had a form of government in Palestine before the arab muslims knew that they had been offered the chance to buy land by the Ottomans. That fact alone negates the arab muslim illegal immigrants claim to the land as it was in Jewish ownership. Your Palestinians can not take that land away from the Jews without giving compensation and reparation


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never lost any land.
Click to expand...





 They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them. 

 So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders
> 
> 
> 
> A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything.  Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end.  You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war.  You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war.  You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied.  This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.
> 
> 
> 
> _(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave.  Period.
> 
> For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force.  Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place.  Which was also stated in 242.
> 
> 
> 
> _Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...​_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In summary, there is nothing to negotiate.  Israel needs to leave.  They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.
Click to expand...






  1) they were not under occupation from 1948 to 1994  when Jordan negotiated borders with Israel, so why didn't they negotiate at the same time as Jordan. After all Jordan had annexed the west bank in 1949 and were the sovereign nation until 1994. And to lift the occupation they either need to show they are no longer engaging in belligerence for a period of 12 months or negotiate a settlement with the occupying power. It is all in the Geneva conventions 


  2) 242 also states that     Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force

 Also it does not say from all territories if you look, and the authors stipulated that mutual borders must be negotiated.    The resolution also calls for the implementation of the "land for peace" formula, calling for Israeli withdrawal from "territories" it had occupied in 1967 in exchange for peace with its neighbors.[21] This was an important advance at the time, considering that there were no peace treaties between any Arab state and Israel until the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty of 1979. "Land for peace" served as the basis of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, in which Israel withdrew from the Sinai peninsula


   3)  Which is where the mutually agreed borders come into play. Israel does not need to leave the occupied territory until the Palestinians abide by the principles of un 242 and 338
     The Security Council subsequently adopted resolution 1515 (2003), which recalled resolution 242 and endorsed the Middle East Quartets Road Map towards a permanent, two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Quartet Plan calls for direct, bilateral negotiations as part of a comprehensive resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict, on the basis of UN Security Council Resolutions 242, 338, 1397, 1515, 1850, and the Madrid principles. *The Quartet has reiterated that the only viable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an agreement that ends the occupation that began in 1967; resolves all permanent status issues as previously defined by the parties; and fulfils the aspirations of both parties for independent homelands through two states for two peoples,* Israel and an independent, contiguous and viable state of Palestine, living side by side in peace and security 


United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> God does not favor narcissistic assholes, who walk around thinking their shit don't stink!
> 
> Those are the ones God sends straight to hell!
Click to expand...





 Is that were you are posting from...................


----------



## MJB12741

The Palestinians sure blew it in rejecting UN 181 thus making the resolution unbinding.  Bye bye Palestinian State alongside with Israel.


----------



## Indeependent

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
> So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never lost any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.
> 
> So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?
Click to expand...


You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never lost any land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.
> 
> So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.
Click to expand...


The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:


To self determination without external interference.


To independence and sovereignty.


To territorial integrity.
I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.
> 
> So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:
> 
> 
> To self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> To independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> To territorial integrity.
> I merely reiterate international law.
> 
> What do you have?
Click to expand...


I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
In fact, most nations have that.
You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:
> 
> 
> To self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> To independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> To territorial integrity.
> I merely reiterate international law.
> 
> What do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
> In fact, most nations have that.
> You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
> I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.
Click to expand...


WTF  You are not making any sense.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.
> 
> So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:
> 
> 
> To self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> To independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> To territorial integrity.
> I merely reiterate international law.
> 
> What do you have?
Click to expand...


What you 'have', has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion.

You keep bringing those points up as if they mean something.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:
> 
> 
> To self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> To independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> To territorial integrity.
> I merely reiterate international law.
> 
> What do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you 'have', has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion.
> 
> You keep bringing those points up as if they mean something.
Click to expand...


How are my points irrelevant to the discussion?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:
> 
> 
> To self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> To independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> To territorial integrity.
> I merely reiterate international law.
> 
> What do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
> In fact, most nations have that.
> You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
> I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
Click to expand...


Why am I not making sense?
Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".

Are you suffering from dementia?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
> In fact, most nations have that.
> You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
> I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why am I not making sense?
> Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".
> 
> Are you suffering from dementia?
Click to expand...


By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why am I not making sense?
> Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".
> 
> Are you suffering from dementia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?
Click to expand...

Exactly.

The unarmed civilians whose armed Fathers and Grandfathers threw down their rifles and participated in the _Great Palestinian Arab Skeddadle of 1948_.

Think those dumb-asses have figured out yet after 66 years that they screwed up?

Doubt it.

-----------------

Sign in a Cairo arms-market, late 1949...

"_*For Sale*:

50,000 British Enfields

Newly retooled for our brave Palestinian fighting brothers.

Like-new mint condition.

Never fired, and only dropped once.

Lot prices available.

Ask for Achmed.

Tell 'em Mahmoud sent you._"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why am I not making sense?
> Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".
> 
> Are you suffering from dementia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> The unarmed civilians whose armed Fathers and Grandfathers threw down their rifles and participated in the _Great Palestinian Arab Skeddadle of 1948_.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> Sign in a Cairo arms-market, late 1949...
> 
> "_For Sale: 50,000 British Enfields, newly minted for our brave Palestinian fighting brothers. Like-new mint condition. Never fired, and only dropped once._"
Click to expand...


Do you mean all those unarmed farmers and store owners driven out of their homes at the point of mooched guns?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why am I not making sense?
> Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".
> 
> Are you suffering from dementia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?
Click to expand...


As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why am I not making sense?
> Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".
> 
> Are you suffering from dementia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
> And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
> But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.
Click to expand...


Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.

They have no choice about anything.

You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:
> 
> 
> To self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> To independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> To territorial integrity.
> I merely reiterate international law.
> 
> What do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
> In fact, most nations have that.
> You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
> I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
Click to expand...

No.

He's making perfect sense.

You know it as well as I do.

But I will wordsmith the key element.

"Every time that a poster serves-up an 'authority' of some kind purports to sign or agree to something on behalf of the Palestinian people, you come back and say that that person or group or polity is not empowered to do so, and that the Palestinian people were not asked - even though a clear representative agency relationship existed in a variety of circumstances, despite all revisionism and latter-day self-serving and disingenuous protestations to the contrary."

This sort of throwing-up of the hands and dismissing many of your claims is what you get for bleating that response, over and over again, across the months here, so that your colleagues get frustrated with you, when they serve-up legitimate representation involved in Treaty or Agreement A or B or C, and you poo-poo the idea, because it does not suit your agenda, nor that of your radical and intransigent mad-dog Hamas handlers.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
> And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
> But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.
> 
> They have no choice about anything.
> 
> You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Click to expand...

I doubt that's true.

But if it IS true, they learned it from the best.

You guys.

And your bottom-feeding scumbag Hamas miscreants.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:
> 
> 
> To self determination without external interference.
> 
> 
> To independence and sovereignty.
> 
> 
> To territorial integrity.
> I merely reiterate international law.
> 
> What do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you 'have', has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion.
> 
> You keep bringing those points up as if they mean something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How are my points irrelevant to the discussion?
Click to expand...


The discussion started when you said Palestinians have never lost any land (which I will add to my list of things you were completely wrong about)

You always seem to bring up those same points as if they have any merit, but they don't.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> The unarmed civilians whose armed Fathers and Grandfathers threw down their rifles and participated in the _Great Palestinian Arab Skeddadle of 1948_.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> Sign in a Cairo arms-market, late 1949...
> 
> *"For Sale: 50,000 British Enfields, newly minted for our brave Palestinian fighting brothers. Like-new mint condition. Never fired, and only dropped once."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you mean all those unarmed farmers and store owners driven out of their homes at the point of mooched guns?
Click to expand...

Them too.

The ones who had organized militias under the noses of the British, but whom listened to their Arab neighbor-countries and ran for the hills; letting the Other Guy do their fighting (and thinking) for them.

Not to mention being so incompetent that nobody thought to declare a State and Independence on the day of the Termination of the British Mandate.

Nobody except the Jews.

Who out-thought you.

Then out-fought you.

Then out-taught you, in conveying their side of the story to the world.

You were out-classed in a dozen different and decisively important ways.

Heckuva great story.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
> In fact, most nations have that.
> You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
> I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> He's making perfect sense.
> 
> You know it as well as I do.
> 
> But I will wordsmith the key element.
> 
> "Every time that a poster serves-up an 'authority' of some kind purports to sign or agree to something on behalf of the Palestinian people, you come back and say that that person or group or polity is not empowered to do so, and that the Palestinian people were not asked - even though a clear representative agency relationship existed in a variety of circumstances, despite all revisionism and latter-day self-serving and disingenuous protestations to the contrary."
> 
> This sort of throwing-up of the hands and dismissing many of your claims is what you get for bleating that response, over and over again, across the months here, so that your colleagues get frustrated with you, when they serve-up legitimate representation involved in Treaty or Agreement A or B or C, and you poo-poo the idea, because it does not suit your agenda, nor that of your radical and intransigent mad-dog Hamas handlers.
Click to expand...


What elected body of Palestinians has signed an agreement.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> He's making perfect sense.
> 
> You know it as well as I do.
> 
> But I will wordsmith the key element.
> 
> "Every time that a poster serves-up an 'authority' of some kind purports to sign or agree to something on behalf of the Palestinian people, you come back and say that that person or group or polity is not empowered to do so, and that the Palestinian people were not asked - even though a clear representative agency relationship existed in a variety of circumstances, despite all revisionism and latter-day self-serving and disingenuous protestations to the contrary."
> 
> This sort of throwing-up of the hands and dismissing many of your claims is what you get for bleating that response, over and over again, across the months here, so that your colleagues get frustrated with you, when they serve-up legitimate representation involved in Treaty or Agreement A or B or C, and you poo-poo the idea, because it does not suit your agenda, nor that of your radical and intransigent mad-dog Hamas handlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What elected body of Palestinians has signed an agreement.
Click to expand...

The PLO for starters.

Fatah as a chaser.

Both of whom you were delighted to have representing you at the time.

Until they began to approach a reasonable compromise with Israel, anyway.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
> And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
> But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.
> 
> They have no choice about anything.
> 
> You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Click to expand...


Terrorist card?? What does that even mean? Calling terrorisfs organizations terrorists is just stating a fact. Why it offends you so much is beyond me.

And when you say 'when Palestine was born', when was that exactly?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF  You are not making any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> He's making perfect sense.
> 
> You know it as well as I do.
> 
> But I will wordsmith the key element.
> 
> "Every time that a poster serves-up an 'authority' of some kind purports to sign or agree to something on behalf of the Palestinian people, you come back and say that that person or group or polity is not empowered to do so, and that the Palestinian people were not asked - even though a clear representative agency relationship existed in a variety of circumstances, despite all revisionism and latter-day self-serving and disingenuous protestations to the contrary."
> 
> This sort of throwing-up of the hands and dismissing many of your claims is what you get for bleating that response, over and over again, across the months here, so that your colleagues get frustrated with you, when they serve-up legitimate representation involved in Treaty or Agreement A or B or C, and you poo-poo the idea, because it does not suit your agenda, nor that of your radical and intransigent mad-dog Hamas handlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What elected body of Palestinians has signed an agreement.
Click to expand...


Whao!  Here come Duh Deer In The Headlights!
Watch the Deer DIE!


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you 'have', has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion.
> 
> You keep bringing those points up as if they mean something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are my points irrelevant to the discussion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The discussion started when you said Palestinians have never lost any land (which I will add to my list of things you were completely wrong about)
> 
> You always seem to bring up those same points as if they have any merit, but they don't.
Click to expand...


When Palestinian land became occupied is well known and undisputed.

When Palestinians legally lost land is completely unknown.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are my points irrelevant to the discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The discussion started when you said Palestinians have never lost any land (which I will add to my list of things you were completely wrong about)
> 
> You always seem to bring up those same points as if they have any merit, but they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Palestinian land became occupied is well known and undisputed.
> 
> When Palestinians legally lost land is completely unknown.
Click to expand...


Only I know when I took my last piss.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
> And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
> But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.
> 
> They have no choice about anything.
> 
> You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Terrorist card?? What does that even mean? Calling terrorisfs organizations terrorists is just stating a fact. Why it offends you so much is beyond me.
> 
> And when you say 'when Palestine was born', when was that exactly?
Click to expand...


"terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.

1924.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.
> 
> They have no choice about anything.
> 
> You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorist card?? What does that even mean? Calling terrorisfs organizations terrorists is just stating a fact. Why it offends you so much is beyond me.
> 
> And when you say 'when Palestine was born', when was that exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
Click to expand...


That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Groups who commit acts of terrorism are called terrorists.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.
> 
> They have no choice about anything.
> 
> You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorist card?? What does that even mean? Calling terrorisfs organizations terrorists is just stating a fact. Why it offends you so much is beyond me.
> 
> And when you say 'when Palestine was born', when was that exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
Click to expand...

No.

Hamas = Terrorist


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorist card?? What does that even mean? Calling terrorisfs organizations terrorists is just stating a fact. Why it offends you so much is beyond me.
> 
> And when you say 'when Palestine was born', when was that exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
> 
> Groups who commit acts of terrorism are called terrorists.
Click to expand...


What acts of terrorism are you talking about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorist card?? What does that even mean? Calling terrorisfs organizations terrorists is just stating a fact. Why it offends you so much is beyond me.
> 
> And when you say 'when Palestine was born', when was that exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> Hamas = Terrorist
Click to expand...


So says the propagandists.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Hamas = Terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
Click to expand...


Fine with me as long as the Propagandists are kicking the sh!t out of the WBJs.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
> 
> Groups who commit acts of terrorism are called terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What acts of terrorism are you talking about?
Click to expand...


Typical Tinmore playing stupid when he has no argument


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Hamas = Terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
Click to expand...


And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Hamas = Terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
> Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
> 
> Groups who commit acts of terrorism are called terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What acts of terrorism are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Tinmore playing stupid when he has no argument
Click to expand...


The same duck you always use when you don't know the answer.


----------



## Indeependent

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
> 
> Groups who commit acts of terrorism are called terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What acts of terrorism are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Tinmore playing stupid when he has no argument
Click to expand...


"PLAYING" stupid?
I don't think TinHead is playing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Hamas = Terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
> Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan
Click to expand...


So?

There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.

Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
> Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.
> 
> Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?
Click to expand...


In truth, the only capability humans have is perception.
My current perception is that you're on the illogical, losing side of the discussion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
> Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.
> 
> Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In truth, the only capability humans have is perception.
> My current perception is that you're on the illogical, losing side of the discussion.
Click to expand...


And nobody can say *why* Hamas is called terrorists.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
> Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.
> 
> Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?
Click to expand...


Wow, THAT'S your argument??

Pathetic. But I'll let you try again.


----------



## toastman

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
> Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.
> 
> Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In truth, the only capability humans have is perception.
> My current perception is that you're on the illogical, losing side of the discussion.
Click to expand...


Tinmore is ALWAYS on the losing side of the discussion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.
> 
> Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In truth, the only capability humans have is perception.
> My current perception is that you're on the illogical, losing side of the discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore is ALWAYS on the losing side of the discussion.
Click to expand...


You are arguing the validity of a political opinion.

The truth is universal. Opinions flop around from person to person and place to place.

This *opinion* is far from universal.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> In truth, the only capability humans have is perception.
> My current perception is that you're on the illogical, losing side of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore is ALWAYS on the losing side of the discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are arguing the validity of a political opinion.
> 
> The truth is universal. Opinions flop around from person to person and place to place.
> 
> This *opinion* is far from universal.
Click to expand...


Lol!!!! You obviously can't handle the fact that all thise countries list Hamas as a terrorist organization.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore is ALWAYS on the losing side of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are arguing the validity of a political opinion.
> 
> The truth is universal. Opinions flop around from person to person and place to place.
> 
> This *opinion* is far from universal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol!!!! You obviously can't handle the fact that all thise countries list Hamas as a terrorist organization.
Click to expand...


Why? It doesn't mean anything. It is just a political opinion.


----------



## thanatos144

For crying out loud.... Yes [MENTION=21837]P F Tinmore[/MENTION] we know you hate Jews or as you call them to not look like the Jew hater you are, Zionists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

thanatos144 said:


> For crying out loud.... Yes [MENTION=21837]P F Tinmore[/MENTION] we know you hate Jews or as you call them to not look like the Jew hater you are, Zionists.



Pfffft. I call them Zionists because that is what they call themselves.


----------



## montelatici

So, you hate the Palestinians.  And, not all Jews are Zionists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> So, you hate the Palestinians.  And, not all Jews are Zionists.



And not all Zionists are Jews.


----------



## thanatos144

montelatici said:


> So, you hate the Palestinians.  And, not all Jews are Zionists.



I dont hate fictional things.


----------



## thanatos144

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you hate the Palestinians.  And, not all Jews are Zionists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not all Zionists are Jews.
Click to expand...


Yes we know you also hate Jew Lovers as well.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> In truth, the only capability humans have is perception.
> My current perception is that you're on the illogical, losing side of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore is ALWAYS on the losing side of the discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are arguing the validity of a political opinion.
> 
> The truth is universal. Opinions flop around from person to person and place to place.
> 
> This *opinion* is far from universal.
Click to expand...


So is YOUR opinion.
In the meanwhile, Israel is thankfully gaining ground every day.


----------



## toastman

thanatos144 said:


> For crying out loud.... Yes [MENTION=21837]P F Tinmore[/MENTION] we know you hate Jews or as you call them to not look like the Jew hater you are, Zionists.



As much as I disagree with Tinmore on everything, he's definitely not a Jew hater. 
Otherwise I wouldn't bother debating with him like I do.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are arguing the validity of a political opinion.
> 
> The truth is universal. Opinions flop around from person to person and place to place.
> 
> This *opinion* is far from universal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol!!!! You obviously can't handle the fact that all thise countries list Hamas as a terrorist organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? It doesn't mean anything. It is just a political opinion.
Click to expand...


Ok, then your comment that the wird 'terrorist' is an Israeli propaganda campaign is just an opinion as well.


----------



## Kondor3

Oh, and, just to reboot the thread a bit...

The question framed in the OP is: "*Who* are the Palestinians"?

More to the point: "*Why* are the Palestinians" (_still clinging to the delusion that they are a coherent and recognizable people with a future, when they are clearly not, and after 66 years of pretending_)?


----------



## montelatici

Kondor3 said:


> Oh, and, just to reboot the thread a bit...
> 
> The question framed in the OP is: "*Who* are the Palestinians"?
> 
> More to the point: "*Why* are the Palestinians" (_still clinging to the delusion that they are a coherent and recognizable people with a future, when they are clearly not, and after 66 years of pretending_)?




After 66 years of trying to eliminate them, the Jews haven't succeeded in doing so.  They have a future.  In the end they will win, colonial settlements do not thrive if they are unable to eliminate the indigenous populations, and Israeli Jews will not be able to eliminate the indigenous people.


----------



## Indeependent

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and, just to reboot the thread a bit...
> 
> The question framed in the OP is: "*Who* are the Palestinians"?
> 
> More to the point: "*Why* are the Palestinians" (_still clinging to the delusion that they are a coherent and recognizable people with a future, when they are clearly not, and after 66 years of pretending_)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 66 years of trying to eliminate them, the Jews haven't succeeded in doing so.  They have a future.  In the end they will win, colonial settlements do not thrive if they are unable to eliminate the indigenous populations, and Israeli Jews will not be able to eliminate the indigenous people.
Click to expand...


Uh-huh.
There's only one problem...
Israel no longer gives a shit about what the US or anyone has to say about protecting themselves.
The world is too intertwined commercially with Israel to become politically mired in a situation where Moslems threaten commercial infrastructure.

Put your head between your legs and kiss the WBJs goodbye.


----------



## toastman

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and, just to reboot the thread a bit...
> 
> The question framed in the OP is: "*Who* are the Palestinians"?
> 
> More to the point: "*Why* are the Palestinians" (_still clinging to the delusion that they are a coherent and recognizable people with a future, when they are clearly not, and after 66 years of pretending_)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 66 years of trying to eliminate them, the Jews haven't succeeded in doing so.  They have a future.  In the end they will win, colonial settlements do not thrive if they are unable to eliminate the indigenous populations, and Israeli Jews will not be able to eliminate the indigenous people.
Click to expand...


Trying to eliminate them?? 
How full of shit are you? Israel could eliminate the 'Palestinians' if they wanted. They could have expelled every sine last one after the 1967 and 1973 wars.

It's the Palestinians who want to eliminate Israel. In fact, it's written in the Hamas charter.
Plus we have seen countless videos of 'Palestinian' officials calling for the destruction of Israel.


Why did you bother starting an account here if you're going to post lies in every single one of your posts??


----------



## MJB12741

OMG!  You mean the Muslim Palestinians are the "indigenous" people of the land?  How do ya like that?  And here I actually believed Solomon's Temple predated the Al Asqa Mosque by well over 1000 years.  Amazing what we can learn here.  Heh Heh! 





montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and, just to reboot the thread a bit...
> 
> The question framed in the OP is: "*Who* are the Palestinians"?
> 
> More to the point: "*Why* are the Palestinians" (_still clinging to the delusion that they are a coherent and recognizable people with a future, when they are clearly not, and after 66 years of pretending_)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 66 years of trying to eliminate them, the Jews haven't succeeded in doing so.  They have a future.  In the end they will win, colonial settlements do not thrive if they are unable to eliminate the indigenous populations, and Israeli Jews will not be able to eliminate the indigenous people.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Another moron that thinks the arab muslims have been around for 2000 years. Under the ottomans Palestine was devoid of arab muslims as the land was too hard for them to work.


Sorry buckwheat, you're wrong again!



> _*The Palestinian people,   are the modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries*, and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab due to Arabization of the region.
> 
> *Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine*, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, *are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants *of the southern Levant *whose core may reach back to prehistoric times*. _


"Prehistoric times"!

That was definitely before the Ottoman's.



Phoenall said:


> By the way have you read the Geneva conventions yet, when you do try reading the Maritime regulations to see who can stop a vessel suspected of smuggling contraband on the high seas.
> 
> A clue is in the fact that the USA does it in waters thousands of miles away from America to help in the control of drug smuggling and gun running.


Here's the actual law regarding drug smuggling...


> _*Article108*
> 
> Illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances
> 
> 1. All States shall cooperate in the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances engaged in by ships on the high seas contrary to international conventions.
> 
> 2. *Any State which has reasonable grounds for believing that a ship flying its flag is engaged in illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances may request the cooperation of other States to suppress such traffic*._


Which means, if Turkey didn't ask the Israeli's to stop its ship, Israel had no legal jurisdiction to do so.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
> 
> Groups who commit acts of terrorism are called terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What acts of terrorism are you talking about?
Click to expand...




 Murder if Athletes in Germany, hijacking of a plane, bombing of Israeli children, callous attacks on Israeli children, attacks on Jordanian civilians attacks on Lebanese civilians.   How many more would you like, and remember that most civilised nations see hamas as a terrorist organisation


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "terrorist" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.
> 
> 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Hamas = Terrorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
Click to expand...




 So says Egypt, Saudi, UK, Europe, America and the UN


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What acts of terrorism are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Tinmore playing stupid when he has no argument
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same duck you always use when you don't know the answer.
Click to expand...





 Not quite it is more a case of seeing if you know the answer, in this case you obviously don't see the use of illegal weapons and targeting unarmed civilians as terrorism


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says the propagandists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Canada, U.S, Australia, Japan, U.K and the E.U ( which consists of 28 states)
> Plus they've been banned in Egypt and Jordan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.
> 
> Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?
Click to expand...


  The evidence of terror attacks do, and you cant argue against that


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> There was a time that everybody "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth.
> 
> Does the popularity of an opinion make it correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In truth, the only capability humans have is perception.
> My current perception is that you're on the illogical, losing side of the discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nobody can say *why* Hamas is called terrorists.
Click to expand...





 Because they engage in terrorist activity, and profess to be engaging in terrorist activity in the future.    THAT IS FACT THAT YOU CANT REFUTE


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are arguing the validity of a political opinion.
> 
> The truth is universal. Opinions flop around from person to person and place to place.
> 
> This *opinion* is far from universal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol!!!! You obviously can't handle the fact that all thise countries list Hamas as a terrorist organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? It doesn't mean anything. It is just a political opinion.
Click to expand...





 Based on hard evidence of terror attacks and the words of hamas leaders saying that they will engage on more terror attacks


----------



## pbel

On his way from the Presidential Palace in Bethlehem to Manger Square, Pope Francis asked the driver of his Popemobile to stop, then went down and stood beneath an Israeli watchtower. In a move no pope has ever done, Pope Francis reached out and touched the metres-high concrete barrier.


Pope Francis lay his forehead on a section filled with graffiti saying "Free Palestine" and "Bethelehem look like Warsaw Ghetto."


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and, just to reboot the thread a bit...
> 
> The question framed in the OP is: "*Who* are the Palestinians"?
> 
> More to the point: "*Why* are the Palestinians" (_still clinging to the delusion that they are a coherent and recognizable people with a future, when they are clearly not, and after 66 years of pretending_)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 66 years of trying to eliminate them, the Jews haven't succeeded in doing so.  They have a future.  In the end they will win, colonial settlements do not thrive if they are unable to eliminate the indigenous populations, and Israeli Jews will not be able to eliminate the indigenous people.
Click to expand...






 Then
   a)   the Israelis have never really tried to eliminate the Palestinians and this is just ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and BLOOD LIBEL

   b) the Palestinians are telling lies about the ethnic cleansing to cover up the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Christians


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another moron that thinks the arab muslims have been around for 2000 years. Under the ottomans Palestine was devoid of arab muslims as the land was too hard for them to work.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry buckwheat, you're wrong again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*The Palestinian people,   are the modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries*, and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab due to Arabization of the region.
> 
> *Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine*, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, *are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants *of the southern Levant *whose core may reach back to prehistoric times*. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Prehistoric times"!
> 
> That was definitely before the Ottoman's.
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way have you read the Geneva conventions yet, when you do try reading the Maritime regulations to see who can stop a vessel suspected of smuggling contraband on the high seas.
> 
> A clue is in the fact that the USA does it in waters thousands of miles away from America to help in the control of drug smuggling and gun running.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's the actual law regarding drug smuggling...
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article108*
> 
> Illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances
> 
> 1. All States shall cooperate in the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances engaged in by ships on the high seas contrary to international conventions.
> 
> 2. *Any State which has reasonable grounds for believing that a ship flying its flag is engaged in illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances may request the cooperation of other States to suppress such traffic*._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which means, if Turkey didn't ask the Israeli's to stop its ship, Israel had no legal jurisdiction to do so.
Click to expand...





   1)   No it is you that is wrong as islam was not invented until 627 C.E by one Mohamed an illiterate mentally defective camel herder.

   2)  That has been debunked because it is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA written by an ISLAMONAZI who twisted the evidence. Most Christians in Palestine are migrants from Christian nations less that 1800 years ago. The true indigenous are the Jews who never left and lived in the area for 4,500 years, shown by a genetic marker known as the Cohen Gene that is not present in any arab muslims.

    3)  did you try and ignore the first clause, if so here it is for you

* All States shall cooperate in the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances engaged in by ships on the high seas contrary to international conventions.*   Did you read that ALL STATES part.

 Plus it does not say that other nations cant stop and search a vessel on the high seas does it.  So because Turkey did not ask does not mean Israel cant stop a vessel suspected of gun running and drug smuggling. 


 You must try harder when it comes to International Law as you are a mere moron in these matters


----------



## Phoenall

pbel said:


> On his way from the Presidential Palace in Bethlehem to Manger Square, Pope Francis asked the driver of his Popemobile to stop, then went down and stood beneath an Israeli watchtower. In a move no pope has ever done, Pope Francis reached out and touched the metres-high concrete barrier.
> 
> 
> Pope Francis lay his forehead on a section filled with graffiti saying "Free Palestine" and "Bethelehem look like Warsaw Ghetto."





    AND your point being ?


----------



## Kondor3

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and, just to reboot the thread a bit...
> 
> The question framed in the OP is: "*Who* are the Palestinians"?
> 
> More to the point: "*Why* are the Palestinians" (_still clinging to the delusion that they are a coherent and recognizable people with a future, when they are clearly not, and after 66 years of pretending_)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 66 years of trying to eliminate them, the Jews haven't succeeded in doing so.  They have a future.  In the end they will win, colonial settlements do not thrive if they are unable to eliminate the indigenous populations, and Israeli Jews will not be able to eliminate the indigenous people.
Click to expand...

The Israelis haven't been trying to eliminate the Palestinians for 66 years.

The Israelis tried to negotiate a peaceful co-existence with them for the first 20 of those 66 years.

After the 1967 War, they stopped trying as hard.

After Intifada I, they reduced their efforts even more.

After Intifada II, they just gave up on the mad-dog Palestinians.

And began herding them into rapidly-shrinking enclaves, scattered and disconnected and isolated - a process designed to eventually squeeze them out and make them want to leave.

The Israelis have never tried to "eliminate" the Palestinians.

Such an effort would require a few weeks of dedicated effort utilizing massively superior firepower and would leave very few Palestinians alive, other than those Palestinians who managed to flee across the Jordanian and Egyptian borders in time to avoid such a fate.

But the Jews are far more humane than the Palestinians, who have sworn to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean, and who have been trying to do so since 1948.

How's that working out for ya?

As to the Palestinians still holding on...

You can kick a dog a thousand times and he'll still "hold on" and show-up at meal-time...

That doesn't mean that the dog has any brains or any future.

They will win?

If this is "winning", I'd sure as hell hate to see "losing".

You're delusional... as are the mad-dogs you advocate for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Tinmore playing stupid when he has no argument
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same duck you always use when you don't know the answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite it is more a case of seeing if you know the answer, in this case you obviously don't see the use of illegal weapons and targeting unarmed civilians as terrorism
Click to expand...


What illegal weapons are you talking about?

Israel kills 10 times more unarmed civilians. What is your point?

Hamas made an offer to Israel that both sides stop killing civilians. Israel refused the offer.

Remember, it is Israel that is the aggressor in this war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
> 
> Groups who commit acts of terrorism are called terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What acts of terrorism are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder if Athletes in Germany, hijacking of a plane,
Click to expand...

Not Hamas.



> bombing of Israeli children, callous attacks on Israeli children,


Vague. Specific incidents?



> attacks on Jordanian civilians attacks on Lebanese civilians.


Again, vague.



> How many more would you like, and remember that most civilised nations see hamas as a terrorist organisation


----------



## MJB12741

If there is to be peace, those Zionists in Israel must stop provoking the Palestinians into violence & terrorism with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel & start treating the Palestinians with the same Arab country love, justice & respect they are so well accustomed to.  And so well deserve.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The same duck you always use when you don't know the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite it is more a case of seeing if you know the answer, in this case you obviously don't see the use of illegal weapons and targeting unarmed civilians as terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What illegal weapons are you talking about?
> 
> Israel kills 10 times more unarmed civilians. What is your point?
> 
> Hamas made an offer to Israel that both sides stop killing civilians. Israel refused the offer.
> 
> Remember, it is Israel that is the aggressor in this war.
Click to expand...





 Rockets containing chemical and biological substances.

 No it is the P.A. that murders the Palestinian civilians by putting them in harms way. Force the terrorists to use the unpopulated areas of gaza to fire the rockets from and stop using unarmed civilians as human shields and the death toll will drop to zero.

 Evidence from a verified source as I can not remember hamas doing any such thing. They entered into a ceasefire agreement and broke it before the ink was even dry.

 No it is the Palestinian as they declared war not the Israelis


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What acts of terrorism are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murder if Athletes in Germany, hijacking of a plane,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not Hamas.
> 
> 
> Vague. Specific incidents?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attacks on Jordanian civilians attacks on Lebanese civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, vague.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many more would you like, and remember that most civilised nations see hamas as a terrorist organisation
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...





 Still Palestinians though who later became hamas

 They are specific, specific enough for the Jordanian forces to kill 50,000 Palestinians for their terrorism. Specific enough for the Lebanese to kill thousands of Palestinians for their terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murder if Athletes in Germany, hijacking of a plane,
> 
> 
> 
> Not Hamas.
> 
> Vague. Specific incidents?
> 
> Again, vague.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many more would you like, and remember that most civilised nations see hamas as a terrorist organisation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still Palestinians though who later became hamas
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I think that was the PFLP, a Christian group.



> They are specific, specific enough for the Jordanian forces to kill 50,000 Palestinians for their terrorism. Specific enough for the Lebanese to kill thousands of Palestinians for their terrorism.



That was a complicated event involving many people, and many countries, for many reasons.

The bottom line, though, is that none of it would have happened without Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not Hamas.
> 
> Vague. Specific incidents?
> 
> Again, vague.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still Palestinians though who later became hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think so. I think that was the PFLP, a Christian group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are specific, specific enough for the Jordanian forces to kill 50,000 Palestinians for their terrorism. Specific enough for the Lebanese to kill thousands of Palestinians for their terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a complicated event involving many people, and many countries, for many reasons.
> 
> The bottom line, though, is that none of it would have happened without Israel.
Click to expand...





 And your proof of that is what, some twisted ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST that says the blame is all Israel's for daring to be better than the muslims. The fact is islam has been engaging in terrorism since Mohamed invented it, and he altered parts of the Koran to bring in more barbaric arabs. Just look at the satanic verses that were written to appease a certain group of arabs that worshipped 3 goddesses. Or the "strike their head from their shoulder" command to appease another group of arabs that did just that to their enemies. So were was Israel while all this was going on, and were was Israel in 1929 when the arab muslims mass murdered Jews in Hebron on the say so of the grand mufti Husseini .



 As I keep saying try harder as your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA is easily proven false.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not Hamas.
> 
> Vague. Specific incidents?
> 
> Again, vague.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still Palestinians though who later became hamas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think so. I think that was the PFLP, a Christian group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are specific, specific enough for the Jordanian forces to kill 50,000 Palestinians for their terrorism. Specific enough for the Lebanese to kill thousands of Palestinians for their terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a complicated event involving many people, and many countries, for many reasons.
> 
> The bottom line, though, is that none of it would have happened without Israel.
Click to expand...


What a ridiculous thing to say. They were killed by Jordan, not Israel.

Your logic is a fail Tinmore.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still Palestinians though who later became hamas
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. I think that was the PFLP, a Christian group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are specific, specific enough for the Jordanian forces to kill 50,000 Palestinians for their terrorism. Specific enough for the Lebanese to kill thousands of Palestinians for their terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a complicated event involving many people, and many countries, for many reasons.
> 
> The bottom line, though, is that none of it would have happened without Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your proof of that is what, some twisted ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST that says the blame is all Israel's for daring to be better than the muslims. The fact is islam has been engaging in terrorism since Mohamed invented it, and he altered parts of the Koran to bring in more barbaric arabs. Just look at the satanic verses that were written to appease a certain group of arabs that worshipped 3 goddesses. Or the "strike their head from their shoulder" command to appease another group of arabs that did just that to their enemies. So were was Israel while all this was going on, and were was Israel in 1929 when the arab muslims mass murdered Jews in Hebron on the say so of the grand mufti Husseini .
> 
> 
> 
> As I keep saying try harder as your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA is easily proven false.
Click to expand...


All that blabber has nothing to do with the Palestinians being in Jordan and Lebanon. They would not have been there if Israel had not kicked them out of Palestine.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. I think that was the PFLP, a Christian group.
> 
> 
> 
> That was a complicated event involving many people, and many countries, for many reasons.
> 
> The bottom line, though, is that none of it would have happened without Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your proof of that is what, some twisted ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST that says the blame is all Israel's for daring to be better than the muslims. The fact is islam has been engaging in terrorism since Mohamed invented it, and he altered parts of the Koran to bring in more barbaric arabs. Just look at the satanic verses that were written to appease a certain group of arabs that worshipped 3 goddesses. Or the "strike their head from their shoulder" command to appease another group of arabs that did just that to their enemies. So were was Israel while all this was going on, and were was Israel in 1929 when the arab muslims mass murdered Jews in Hebron on the say so of the grand mufti Husseini .
> 
> 
> 
> As I keep saying try harder as your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA is easily proven false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All that blabber has nothing to do with the Palestinians being in Jordan and Lebanon. They would not have been there if Israel had not kicked them out of Palestine.
Click to expand...


But not one word of condemnation for those who massacred 50  000 Palestinians.


Using your 'logic', there would not have been a war had 5 Arab Nations not attacked Israel meaning they would not have been kicked out.

Either way, they're never coming back.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your proof of that is what, some twisted ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST that says the blame is all Israel's for daring to be better than the muslims. The fact is islam has been engaging in terrorism since Mohamed invented it, and he altered parts of the Koran to bring in more barbaric arabs. Just look at the satanic verses that were written to appease a certain group of arabs that worshipped 3 goddesses. Or the "strike their head from their shoulder" command to appease another group of arabs that did just that to their enemies. So were was Israel while all this was going on, and were was Israel in 1929 when the arab muslims mass murdered Jews in Hebron on the say so of the grand mufti Husseini .
> 
> 
> 
> As I keep saying try harder as your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA is easily proven false.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that blabber has nothing to do with the Palestinians being in Jordan and Lebanon. They would not have been there if Israel had not kicked them out of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But not one word of condemnation for those who massacred 50  000 Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Using your 'logic',* there would not have been a war had 5 Arab Nations not attacked Israel *meaning they would not have been kicked out.
> 
> Either way, they're never coming back.
Click to expand...


Didn't happen.


----------



## MJB12741

Here is the irony in dealing with Palestinian mentality.  Israel makes peace offerings to the Palestinians, builds a security fence & grants their request for their own Jew free Gaza & Israel is thanked with jihad's & rocket missiles.

Jordan massacres tens of thousands of their Palestinians during Black September & bingo, a lasting peace for Jordan from the Palestinians.

When will Israel end their damn failed Zionist agenda & learn from the Arab countries how to treat Palestinians?  LET THERRE BE PEACE ALREADY!







toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still Palestinians though who later became hamas
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. I think that was the PFLP, a Christian group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are specific, specific enough for the Jordanian forces to kill 50,000 Palestinians for their terrorism. Specific enough for the Lebanese to kill thousands of Palestinians for their terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a complicated event involving many people, and many countries, for many reasons.
> 
> The bottom line, though, is that none of it would have happened without Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a ridiculous thing to say. They were killed by Jordan, not Israel.
> 
> Your logic is a fail Tinmore.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. I think that was the PFLP, a Christian group.
> 
> 
> 
> That was a complicated event involving many people, and many countries, for many reasons.
> 
> The bottom line, though, is that none of it would have happened without Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your proof of that is what, some twisted ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST that says the blame is all Israel's for daring to be better than the muslims. The fact is islam has been engaging in terrorism since Mohamed invented it, and he altered parts of the Koran to bring in more barbaric arabs. Just look at the satanic verses that were written to appease a certain group of arabs that worshipped 3 goddesses. Or the "strike their head from their shoulder" command to appease another group of arabs that did just that to their enemies. So were was Israel while all this was going on, and were was Israel in 1929 when the arab muslims mass murdered Jews in Hebron on the say so of the grand mufti Husseini .
> 
> 
> 
> As I keep saying try harder as your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA is easily proven false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All that blabber has nothing to do with the Palestinians being in Jordan and Lebanon. They would not have been there if Israel had not kicked them out of Palestine.
Click to expand...





They were held captive there by the arab muslims who murdered any that took up the right of return in 1949. The Palestinians tried to seize control of Jordan and make it the new Palestine so Jordan retaliated and killed 50,000. They then tried to seize control of Lebanon until the Christians retaliated for the widespread atrocities and killed the Palestinians in the camps. Both times the message went out if you want bloodshed be prepared to have your own shed as well.

 But if Mohamed had not wiped out the Jewish tribe then the muslims would never have had it as a religious command to KILL THE JEWS


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All that blabber has nothing to do with the Palestinians being in Jordan and Lebanon. They would not have been there if Israel had not kicked them out of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But not one word of condemnation for those who massacred 50  000 Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Using your 'logic',* there would not have been a war had 5 Arab Nations not attacked Israel *meaning they would not have been kicked out.
> 
> Either way, they're never coming back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't happen.
Click to expand...





 Even though the same 5 armies said that it did, and that they were defeated so badly that they still feel humiliated to this day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> But not one word of condemnation for those who massacred 50  000 Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Using your 'logic',* there would not have been a war had 5 Arab Nations not attacked Israel *meaning they would not have been kicked out.
> 
> Either way, they're never coming back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even though the same 5 armies said that it did, and that they were defeated so badly that they still feel humiliated to this day.
Click to expand...


 Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq,* invaded Palestine.*

Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though the same 5 armies said that it did, and that they were defeated so badly that they still feel humiliated to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq,* invaded Palestine.*
> 
> Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Palestine (Old Palestine) stopped being Palestine, the split-second that Israel declared Statehood and Independence.

Rump Palestine (a.k.a. Palestine) was born at that very same split-second; comprising that portion of Old Palestine that the Israelis did not claim for themselves.

Everything that has happened subsequent to that moment in time has been a matter of adding-to or subtracting-from Israel or Rump Palestine.

You can pretend otherwise from now until the universe collapses.

It will do you no good.

The five invading Arab countries of 1948 attacked Israel, in an attempt to prevent the infant State from living very long past its birth-moment.

They failed.

Repeatedly.

As they always do, in modern times.

Losers.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though the same 5 armies said that it did, and that they were defeated so badly that they still feel humiliated to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq,* invaded Palestine.*
> 
> Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...





 As of 12 midnight on the 14 may 1948 it became Israel, a fact that was entered into International law. Palestine did not exist as a state until August 1988 so they could not have invaded something that did not exist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even though the same 5 armies said that it did, and that they were defeated so badly that they still feel humiliated to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq,* invaded Palestine.*
> 
> Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As of 12 midnight on the 14 may 1948 it became Israel, a fact that was entered into International law. Palestine did not exist as a state until August 1988 so they could not have invaded something that did not exist.
Click to expand...


Most history sources say "invaded Palestine" or "entered Palestine" when speaking of the Arab armies. Of course this took place after the mandate left Palestine.

The 1949 UN armistice agreements called the place Palestine and referenced Palestine's international borders.

Even the UN resolution 3236 of 1974 states:



> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the *Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237



So, who told you that Palestine did not exist?


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq,* invaded Palestine.*
> 
> Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of 12 midnight on the 14 may 1948 it became Israel, a fact that was entered into International law. Palestine did not exist as a state until August 1988 so they could not have invaded something that did not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most history sources say "invaded Palestine" or "entered Palestine" when speaking of the Arab armies. Of course this took place after the mandate left Palestine.
> 
> The 1949 UN armistice agreements called the place Palestine and referenced Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Even the UN resolution 3236 of 1974 states:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the *Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, who told you that Palestine did not exist?
Click to expand...

Those history books and armistice agreements of 1948-1949 used the nomenclature 'Palestine' from habit - what that unchartered, unincorporated region had been called for a long time. Rather like 'Arabia', versus 'Saudi Arabia'.

But none of that means shit.

The split second that the Jews of Old Palestine declared Statehood and Independence, citing UN 181 as part of their basis, they implicitly declared new borders between themselves (the new State of Israel, per the 1947 UN proposal) and vestigial Rump Palestine; what was left of Palestine after the Jews carved-off their slice.

The Jews made their claims stick (operative in the Real World).

You failed to make your claims stick (operative in the Real World).

Hell, you were months late (September 1948) to even TRY to declare, and really didn't actually pull that off for another 40 years (1988).

Asleep at the switch.

Again.

The Illinois territory was a different critter than the State of Illinois.

The region called Cheecagong was a different critter than the incorporated City of Chicago.

The Louisiana Purchase Territory was a different critter than the State of Louisiana.

The unincorporated region formerly known as Palestine is a different critter than the fragmented and failing State of Palestine (more like, Rump Palestine).

Feel the burn.

Enjoy the burn.

'Cause you ain't gettin' the rest back.

Not in 66 years.

Not in 122.

Not in a thousand.

Time to pack it up and head for greener pastures.

It's over.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As of 12 midnight on the 14 may 1948 it became Israel, a fact that was entered into International law. Palestine did not exist as a state until August 1988 so they could not have invaded something that did not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most history sources say "invaded Palestine" or "entered Palestine" when speaking of the Arab armies. Of course this took place after the mandate left Palestine.
> 
> The 1949 UN armistice agreements called the place Palestine and referenced Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Even the UN resolution 3236 of 1974 states:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the *Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, who told you that Palestine did not exist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those history books and armistice agreements of 1948-1949 used the nomenclature 'Palestine' from habit - what that unchartered, unincorporated region had been called for a long time. Rather like 'Arabia', versus 'Saudi Arabia'.
> 
> But none of that means shit.
> 
> The split second that the Jews of Old Palestine declared Statehood and Independence, citing UN 181 as part of their basis, they implicitly declared new borders between themselves (the new State of Israel, per the 1947 UN proposal) and vestigial Rump Palestine; what was left of Palestine after the Jews carved-off their slice.
> 
> The Jews made their claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> You failed to make your claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> Hell, you were months late (September 1948) to even TRY to declare, and really didn't actually pull that off for another 40 years (1988).
> 
> Asleep at the switch.
> 
> Again.
> 
> The Illinois territory was a different critter than the State of Illinois.
> 
> The region called Cheecagong was a different critter than the incorporated City of Chicago.
> 
> The Louisiana Purchase Territory was a different critter than the State of Louisiana.
> 
> The unincorporated region formerly known as Palestine is a different critter than the fragmented and failing State of Palestine (more like, Rump Palestine).
> 
> Feel the burn.
> 
> Enjoy the burn.
> 
> 'Cause you ain't gettin' the rest back.
> 
> Not in 66 years.
> 
> Not in 122.
> 
> Not in a thousand.
> 
> Time to pack it up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> It's over.
Click to expand...


Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most history sources say "invaded Palestine" or "entered Palestine" when speaking of the Arab armies. Of course this took place after the mandate left Palestine.
> 
> The 1949 UN armistice agreements called the place Palestine and referenced Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Even the UN resolution 3236 of 1974 states:
> 
> 
> 
> So, who told you that Palestine did not exist?
> 
> 
> 
> Those history books and armistice agreements of 1948-1949 used the nomenclature 'Palestine' from habit - what that unchartered, unincorporated region had been called for a long time. Rather like 'Arabia', versus 'Saudi Arabia'.
> 
> But none of that means shit.
> 
> The split second that the Jews of Old Palestine declared Statehood and Independence, citing UN 181 as part of their basis, they implicitly declared new borders between themselves (the new State of Israel, per the 1947 UN proposal) and vestigial Rump Palestine; what was left of Palestine after the Jews carved-off their slice.
> 
> The Jews made their claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> You failed to make your claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> Hell, you were months late (September 1948) to even TRY to declare, and really didn't actually pull that off for another 40 years (1988).
> 
> Asleep at the switch.
> 
> Again.
> 
> The Illinois territory was a different critter than the State of Illinois.
> 
> The region called Cheecagong was a different critter than the incorporated City of Chicago.
> 
> The Louisiana Purchase Territory was a different critter than the State of Louisiana.
> 
> The unincorporated region formerly known as Palestine is a different critter than the fragmented and failing State of Palestine (more like, Rump Palestine).
> 
> Feel the burn.
> 
> Enjoy the burn.
> 
> 'Cause you ain't gettin' the rest back.
> 
> Not in 66 years.
> 
> Not in 122.
> 
> Not in a thousand.
> 
> Time to pack it up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> It's over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
Click to expand...


Why do you ask questions that you know the answer to?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those history books and armistice agreements of 1948-1949 used the nomenclature 'Palestine' from habit - what that unchartered, unincorporated region had been called for a long time. Rather like 'Arabia', versus 'Saudi Arabia'.
> 
> But none of that means shit.
> 
> The split second that the Jews of Old Palestine declared Statehood and Independence, citing UN 181 as part of their basis, they implicitly declared new borders between themselves (the new State of Israel, per the 1947 UN proposal) and vestigial Rump Palestine; what was left of Palestine after the Jews carved-off their slice.
> 
> The Jews made their claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> You failed to make your claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> Hell, you were months late (September 1948) to even TRY to declare, and really didn't actually pull that off for another 40 years (1988).
> 
> Asleep at the switch.
> 
> Again.
> 
> The Illinois territory was a different critter than the State of Illinois.
> 
> The region called Cheecagong was a different critter than the incorporated City of Chicago.
> 
> The Louisiana Purchase Territory was a different critter than the State of Louisiana.
> 
> The unincorporated region formerly known as Palestine is a different critter than the fragmented and failing State of Palestine (more like, Rump Palestine).
> 
> Feel the burn.
> 
> Enjoy the burn.
> 
> 'Cause you ain't gettin' the rest back.
> 
> Not in 66 years.
> 
> Not in 122.
> 
> Not in a thousand.
> 
> Time to pack it up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> It's over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you ask questions that you know the answer to?
Click to expand...


I don't see the relevance of the date.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ask questions that you know the answer to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
Click to expand...


September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.

How do you not know this????

Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ask questions that you know the answer to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
Click to expand...


You don't seem to see the relevance of anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ask questions that you know the answer to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.
> 
> How do you not know this????
> 
> Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.
Click to expand...


I know.

Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.
> 
> How do you not know this????
> 
> Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
Click to expand...


You always debate things that are not up for debate. And you're always wrong about everything. 
Why do you even bother?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.
> 
> How do you not know this????
> 
> Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You always debate things that are not up for debate. And you're always wrong about everything.
> Why do you even bother?
Click to expand...


The debate is changing.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.
> 
> How do you not know this????
> 
> Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
Click to expand...


The only history we are picking up is your history of mental illness.


----------



## MJB12741

Good point Tinmore.  Finally you are making some sense.  How can those silly Zionists claim that Palestine did not exist, when the indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS?






P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq,* invaded Palestine.*
> 
> Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of 12 midnight on the 14 may 1948 it became Israel, a fact that was entered into International law. Palestine did not exist as a state until August 1988 so they could not have invaded something that did not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most history sources say "invaded Palestine" or "entered Palestine" when speaking of the Arab armies. Of course this took place after the mandate left Palestine.
> 
> The 1949 UN armistice agreements called the place Palestine and referenced Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Even the UN resolution 3236 of 1974 states:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the *Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, who told you that Palestine did not exist?
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You always debate things that are not up for debate. And you're always wrong about everything.
> Why do you even bother?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The debate is changing.
Click to expand...


The issues that you debate don't change.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?


Because it came four months after the Israeli one, which staked-out a claim to a piece of Old Palestine.

Had the Palestinians had the brains to declare on the same day the Israelis did (the day that the Mandate ended), their position would have been stronger.

Think of it as a Gold Rush.

You have 100 acres of land on which gold is believed to exist in large quantity.

You have two gold prospectors competing.

Somebody suggests that they divide it up.

Prospector A says "OK", and files a claim for his half.

Prospector B says "No, I want the whole thing", and doesn't bother to file.

A and B start to feuding, and B gets the worst of it, and loses some of his half in the process.

Four months later, B goes to the claims office, and tries to file a claim for the whole thing.

B gets laughed out of the claims office.

When the outside world gets wind of it, most of the Territory is laughing at B, as well.

As more time passes, and A continues to encroach on troublesome B, and B continues to start fresh firefights, B continues to get the worst of it, time after time after time.

B never learns.

Worse, B continues to press his claim for his old half, and wants a piece of A's original turf, as well - actually, B continues to insist that it's still all his, even though the world has long-since abandoned any pretense that B's claim to take it all is valid or operative.

B is, by then, not only viewed as a laughing-stock, but as the village idiot.

And it all started with B not having the brains to file his claim the same day that A did, way-back-when.

That's why I say that the September 1948 declaration was late.


----------



## MJB12741

The Truth About The Palestinian People.

The Truth about the Palestinian People


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq,* invaded Palestine.*
> 
> Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of 12 midnight on the 14 may 1948 it became Israel, a fact that was entered into International law. Palestine did not exist as a state until August 1988 so they could not have invaded something that did not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most history sources say "invaded Palestine" or "entered Palestine" when speaking of the Arab armies. Of course this took place after the mandate left Palestine.
> 
> The 1949 UN armistice agreements called the place Palestine and referenced Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Even the UN resolution 3236 of 1974 states:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the *Palestinian people* to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people *in Palestine*, including:
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, who told you that Palestine did not exist?
Click to expand...


 Common sense and the evidence that shows Palestine did not have any autonomy until 1988. Unless you can produce the treaties signed by the Palestinian leaders that set the nations International borders in place. You need to understand that as far as legalese is concerned it is easier to put Palestine than to put the mandated lands of Palestine. Just as you also need to understand that the Jews had the same rights to self determination and the right to a homeland as the arab muslims did. Your constant posting of the Jews having no rights to a homeland and no right to defend it from attack show that you are only concerned with arab muslim "rights" that don't even exist.


 Now prove conclusively that Palestine as a sovereign nation existed before August 1988 by producing the treaties and legal documents signed by and on behalf of the Palestinian people.  If these are not forthcoming then you can take it as read that you are living a lie.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most history sources say "invaded Palestine" or "entered Palestine" when speaking of the Arab armies. Of course this took place after the mandate left Palestine.
> 
> The 1949 UN armistice agreements called the place Palestine and referenced Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Even the UN resolution 3236 of 1974 states:
> 
> 
> 
> So, who told you that Palestine did not exist?
> 
> 
> 
> Those history books and armistice agreements of 1948-1949 used the nomenclature 'Palestine' from habit - what that unchartered, unincorporated region had been called for a long time. Rather like 'Arabia', versus 'Saudi Arabia'.
> 
> But none of that means shit.
> 
> The split second that the Jews of Old Palestine declared Statehood and Independence, citing UN 181 as part of their basis, they implicitly declared new borders between themselves (the new State of Israel, per the 1947 UN proposal) and vestigial Rump Palestine; what was left of Palestine after the Jews carved-off their slice.
> 
> The Jews made their claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> You failed to make your claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> Hell, you were months late (September 1948) to even TRY to declare, and really didn't actually pull that off for another 40 years (1988).
> 
> Asleep at the switch.
> 
> Again.
> 
> The Illinois territory was a different critter than the State of Illinois.
> 
> The region called Cheecagong was a different critter than the incorporated City of Chicago.
> 
> The Louisiana Purchase Territory was a different critter than the State of Louisiana.
> 
> The unincorporated region formerly known as Palestine is a different critter than the fragmented and failing State of Palestine (more like, Rump Palestine).
> 
> Feel the burn.
> 
> Enjoy the burn.
> 
> 'Cause you ain't gettin' the rest back.
> 
> Not in 66 years.
> 
> Not in 122.
> 
> Not in a thousand.
> 
> Time to pack it up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> It's over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
Click to expand...





 Because the Jews beat the muslims to it and had declared on the land destined as Israel. This meant the muslims could not declare on land already under new ownership, it was not in the UN partition plan of 1947. It also deprived the Jews and Christians of Palestine of their rights to self determination and a homeland making the muslims in breach of UN res 181 which by declaring meant they agreed with it.

 You fail to truth and reality every time you bring up the same false premise spread by the ISLAMONAZIS


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ask questions that you know the answer to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
Click to expand...




 Don't you then how about if the Jews declared independence in Mecca and made it an arab free nation. Now why would they be too late to do this ?


----------



## Phoenall

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ask questions that you know the answer to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.
> 
> How do you not know this????
> 
> Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.
Click to expand...




 He has been brainwashed into believing that Israel does not exist because some Palestinian has re-written the treaties and resolutions to show that the UN and LoN did not have the authority to divide up Palestine, even though they had already done so and created Jordan, Syria and Iraq.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see the relevance of the date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.
> 
> How do you not know this????
> 
> Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
Click to expand...





 So you agree that the Jews had no rights to self determination as put forward by the muslims when they declared independence 4 months after Israel's had been accepted. That is the whole point of your posts to remove the rights of the Jews to self determination and the right to a homeland.
*PURE ANTI SEMITIC NAZI JEW HATRED*


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You always debate things that are not up for debate. And you're always wrong about everything.
> Why do you even bother?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The debate is changing.
Click to expand...





 Hardly what is changing is the reality of what you think and believe. Now we are seeing that you don't want the Jews to have the same rights as everyone else to self determination and a homeland.

 Care to explain why this is ?   And don't say it isn't so as you have implied this in this thread


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> 1)   No it is you that is wrong as islam was not invented until 627 C.E by one Mohamed an illiterate mentally defective camel herder.
> 
> 2)  That has been debunked because it is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA written by an ISLAMONAZI who twisted the evidence. Most Christians in Palestine are migrants from Christian nations less that 1800 years ago. The true indigenous are the Jews who never left and lived in the area for 4,500 years, shown by a genetic marker known as the Cohen Gene that is not present in any arab muslims.
> 
> 3)  did you try and ignore the first clause, if so here it is for you
> 
> * All States shall cooperate in the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances engaged in by ships on the high seas contrary to international conventions.*   Did you read that ALL STATES part.
> 
> Plus it does not say that other nations cant stop and search a vessel on the high seas does it.  So because Turkey did not ask does not mean Israel cant stop a vessel suspected of gun running and drug smuggling.
> 
> 
> You must try harder when it comes to International Law as you are a mere moron in these matters


You really like getting bitch-slapped, don't you, gumby?


Here's a few more international maritime laws proving you're full of shit!

Let's start with freedom to navigate...


> _*Article87*
> 
> Freedom of the high seas
> 
> 1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> 
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> 
> (b) freedom of overflight;_


BTW, trying to say a vessel carrying humanitarian aid is drug smuggling, is like saying Mother Theresa was a whore!

You're pretty fucked in the head!

Back to the laws...


...this one proves Israel had no right to stop that ship.



> _*Article89*
> 
> Invalidity of claims of sovereignty over the high seas
> 
> *No State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty*._


So no, dumbass, you cannot stop a ship in international waters.


This last law, is in response to your _"...what if Israel suspects..." _line,



> _ *Article92*
> 
> *Status of ships*
> 
> 1. *Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only *and *shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on the high seas.* _


...which means, fuckhead, if there is any criminal activity on board a ship, it is up to the nation whose flag the ship is sailing under, to investigate and prosecute those involved.

I notice you don't provide links to back up your claims, you just shoot your fucking mouth off until the cows come home.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1)   No it is you that is wrong as islam was not invented until 627 C.E by one Mohamed an illiterate mentally defective camel herder.
> 
> 2)  That has been debunked because it is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA written by an ISLAMONAZI who twisted the evidence. Most Christians in Palestine are migrants from Christian nations less that 1800 years ago. The true indigenous are the Jews who never left and lived in the area for 4,500 years, shown by a genetic marker known as the Cohen Gene that is not present in any arab muslims.
> 
> 3)  did you try and ignore the first clause, if so here it is for you
> 
> * All States shall cooperate in the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances engaged in by ships on the high seas contrary to international conventions.*   Did you read that ALL STATES part.
> 
> Plus it does not say that other nations cant stop and search a vessel on the high seas does it.  So because Turkey did not ask does not mean Israel cant stop a vessel suspected of gun running and drug smuggling.
> 
> 
> You must try harder when it comes to International Law as you are a mere moron in these matters
> 
> 
> 
> You really like getting bitch-slapped, don't you, gumby?
> 
> 
> Here's a few more international maritime laws proving you're full of shit!
> 
> Let's start with freedom to navigate...
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article87*
> 
> Freedom of the high seas
> 
> 1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> 
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> 
> (b) freedom of overflight;_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, trying to say a vessel carrying humanitarian aid is drug smuggling, is like saying Mother Theresa was a whore!
> 
> You're pretty fucked in the head!
> 
> Back to the laws...
> 
> 
> ...this one proves Israel had no right to stop that ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article89*
> 
> Invalidity of claims of sovereignty over the high seas
> 
> *No State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty*._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So no, dumbass, you cannot stop a ship in international waters.
> 
> 
> This last law, is in response to your _"...what if Israel suspects..." _line,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ *Article92*
> 
> *Status of ships*
> 
> 1. *Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only *and *shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on the high seas.* _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...which means, fuckhead, if there is any criminal activity on board a ship, it is up to the nation whose flag the ship is sailing under, to investigate and prosecute those involved.
> 
> I notice you don't provide links to back up your claims, you just shoot your fucking mouth off until the cows come home.
Click to expand...





 Well one thing is for certain you aint man enough to do it, or intelligent enough either.

   1)   How about the rest of that clause that spells it out.................The high seas shall be reserved for peaceful purposes................  On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith.........


    2)  You trying to make false claims of what I said is about par for the course whee you are being shown to be an illiterate. You forgot that the aid was out of date and unfit for human use and was just an excuse, maybe Israel should have allow3ed the medical supplies to be used and kill a few thousand Palestinians.


   3)  You can if the vessel is suspected of Piracy ( which this one ended up doing ) or smuggling.


   4)  I don't need to provide links when you have already provided them and ignored the parts that don't go along with your POV


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> September 1948 was AFTER Israel declared independence.
> 
> How do you not know this????
> 
> Anyway, I know how this conversation is going to play out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree that the Jews had no rights to self determination as put forward by the muslims when they declared independence 4 months after Israel's had been accepted. That is the whole point of your posts to remove the rights of the Jews to self determination and the right to a homeland.
> *PURE ANTI SEMITIC NAZI JEW HATRED*
Click to expand...


I didn't say that and that is not what happened.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those history books and armistice agreements of 1948-1949 used the nomenclature 'Palestine' from habit - what that unchartered, unincorporated region had been called for a long time. Rather like 'Arabia', versus 'Saudi Arabia'.
> 
> But none of that means shit.
> 
> The split second that the Jews of Old Palestine declared Statehood and Independence, citing UN 181 as part of their basis, they implicitly declared new borders between themselves (the new State of Israel, per the 1947 UN proposal) and vestigial Rump Palestine; what was left of Palestine after the Jews carved-off their slice.
> 
> The Jews made their claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> You failed to make your claims stick (operative in the Real World).
> 
> Hell, you were months late (September 1948) to even TRY to declare, and really didn't actually pull that off for another 40 years (1988).
> 
> Asleep at the switch.
> 
> Again.
> 
> The Illinois territory was a different critter than the State of Illinois.
> 
> The region called Cheecagong was a different critter than the incorporated City of Chicago.
> 
> The Louisiana Purchase Territory was a different critter than the State of Louisiana.
> 
> The unincorporated region formerly known as Palestine is a different critter than the fragmented and failing State of Palestine (more like, Rump Palestine).
> 
> Feel the burn.
> 
> Enjoy the burn.
> 
> 'Cause you ain't gettin' the rest back.
> 
> Not in 66 years.
> 
> Not in 122.
> 
> Not in a thousand.
> 
> Time to pack it up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> It's over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Because the Jews beat the muslims to it and had declared on the land destined as Israel. *This meant the muslims could not declare on land already under new ownership, it was not in the UN partition plan of 1947. It also deprived the Jews and Christians of Palestine of their rights to self determination and a homeland making the muslims in breach of UN res 181 which by declaring meant they agreed with it.
> 
> You fail to truth and reality every time you bring up the same false premise spread by the ISLAMONAZIS
Click to expand...


*That is not true.*

There was a proposed land to be transferred to Israel in resolution 181 but resolution 181 didn't happen. No land was transferred to Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> Glad to see that you are picking up on some history also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree that the Jews had no rights to self determination as put forward by the muslims when they declared independence 4 months after Israel's had been accepted. That is the whole point of your posts to remove the rights of the Jews to self determination and the right to a homeland.
> *PURE ANTI SEMITIC NAZI JEW HATRED*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't say that and that is not what happened.
Click to expand...



 It is what happened and you keep posting this as evidence of the Palestinians declaration of intent. You know as well as everyone else that had the Palestinians won in 1948 the Jews would have been massacred. You don't need to say it as you imply this in all your posts. The fact remains that the Jews had as much right to self determination as the arab muslims did, and they declared on the small portion of land given to them by the lands LEGAL OWNERS.

 No w produce your evidence of treaties signed by the Palestinians prior to August 1988 that set in stone their borders mutually agreed with Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabis


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Because the Jews beat the muslims to it and had declared on the land destined as Israel. *This meant the muslims could not declare on land already under new ownership, it was not in the UN partition plan of 1947. It also deprived the Jews and Christians of Palestine of their rights to self determination and a homeland making the muslims in breach of UN res 181 which by declaring meant they agreed with it.
> 
> You fail to truth and reality every time you bring up the same false premise spread by the ISLAMONAZIS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is not true.*
> 
> There was a proposed land to be transferred to Israel in resolution 181 but resolution 181 didn't happen. No land was transferred to Israel.
Click to expand...





 See you are attempting to remove the Jews rights to self determination by telling lies. The land was transferred to the Jews under 181 as soon as they deposited their declaration with the UN. You can call up as many obscure ISLAMONAZI links as you like the UN and ICJ supersedes them all.

 The Resolution as a legal basis for Palestinian statehood[edit]

In 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization published the Palestinian Declaration of Independence relying on Resolution 181, arguing that the resolution continues to provide international legitimacy for the right of the Palestinian people to sovereignty and national independence.[107] A number of scholars have written in support of this view.[108][109][110]

A General Assembly request for an advisory opinion, Resolution ES-10/14 (2004), specifically cited resolution 181(II) as a "relevant resolution", and asked the International Court of Justice (ICJ) what are the legal consequences of the relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions. Judge Abdul Koroma explained the majority opinion: "The Court has also held that the right of self-determination as an established and recognized right under international law applies to the territory and to the Palestinian people. Accordingly, the exercise of such right entitles the Palestinian people to a State of their own as originally envisaged in resolution 181 (II) and subsequently confirmed."[111] In response, Prof. Paul De Waart said that* the Court put the legality of the 1922 League of Nations Palestine Mandate and the 1947 UN Plan of Partition beyond doubt once and for all*


United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Because the Jews beat the muslims to it and had declared on the land destined as Israel. *This meant the muslims could not declare on land already under new ownership, it was not in the UN partition plan of 1947. It also deprived the Jews and Christians of Palestine of their rights to self determination and a homeland making the muslims in breach of UN res 181 which by declaring meant they agreed with it.
> 
> You fail to truth and reality every time you bring up the same false premise spread by the ISLAMONAZIS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is not true.*
> 
> There was a proposed land to be transferred to Israel in resolution 181 but resolution 181 didn't happen. *No land was transferred to Israel*.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

They took it.

The Jews knew that 181 was not going to materialize.

So they carved-off their slice of Old Palestine, as if the land-parceling aspects of 181 were operative.

And declared it to be a State.

And held it against all comers.

Cherry-picking what they wanted from UN 181, and leaving the rest in the dustbin of history.

Eventually, the world recognized the existence of Israel, conceding the fait accompli.

Land was not transferred.

Land was divided-up.

That division was made operative and real by force of arms.

Superceding any former legal status to the contrary.

The Muslims tried to change that.

The Muslims failed.

As usual.

Next slide, please.


----------



## toastman

waltky said:


> Which will win out - interests or values?...
> 
> *Egypt's anointing of Sisi will lay bare west's battle between interest and values*
> _Monday 26 May 2014 ~ Pragmatic engagement, not principles, likely to be the order of the day in dealings with Cairo for foreseeable future_
> 
> 
> 
> Western governments will have to come up with some tortuous language when Abdel Fatah al-Sisi becomes Egypt's president. No one doubts that the former field marshal will win this week's election by a handsome margin, thanks to a combination of genuine support, boycotts by Islamists who have been banned and persecuted, and the absence of credible rivals. Victory is no less assured than it is for Bashar al-Assad, facing his date with Syria's destiny next month &#8211; though that exercise has been widely condemned as a parody of democracy.  Washington, London and Brussels are already finalising carefully-crafted statements about the will of the Egyptian people and pressing forward with the promised "democratic transition". There will be euphemistic calls for "inclusiveness" and widening the country's "political space". There may even be some critical words about justice and human rights. But there will be congratulations for Egypt's new strongman.
> 
> Behind these circumlocutions and evasions lie the unmistakable reality that this republican coronation puts an end to the hopes that were generated by the biggest upheaval of the Arab spring. Sisi is able to claim the mantle of Gamal Abdel-Nasser and other soldiers-turned-presidents because he and his fellow generals removed the democratically-elected Mohamed Morsi last summer in a move that was undoubtedly popular but was still a coup by any definition.  The US never used that C-word, because under congressional rules it would have meant an automatic cut-off of aid. Britain fretted about the dangers of military "intervention" and hoped for better times. For a few weeks there was a slight chill in relations with Cairo. EU aid and UK arms export licences were suspended. US military aid was frozen, though some sales resumed when Russia stepped in to fill the gap in the market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abdel Fatah al-Sisi at a Cairo polling station to cast his vote in the Egyptian presidential election.
> 
> Ambassadors who had embraced the Muslim Brotherhood uncritically during Morsi's unhappy year in office &#8211; to the fury of Egyptians who loathed him &#8211; accepted that things had changed overnight. Business as usual did include condemnation of repression under the military &#8211; 1,000 people killed and many thousands imprisoned could hardly be ignored. The outlawing of the Brotherhood, mass trials and death sentences and a media crackdown have drawn fire too. Still, the announcement of a UK investigation into the Brotherhood and Tony Blair's warm endorsement of Sisi sent very different messages about Egypt's lurch back to pre-2011 authoritarianism.  In private, western government ministers and officials admit that Sisi's "road-map" cannot include the aspirations that accompanied the fall of Hosni Mubarak. But in the battle between interests and values, interests win hands down: these include fighting jihadis in Sinai, keeping the peace with Israel, and economics. The UK is Egypt's biggest source of foreign direct investment. Huge Egyptian debts to British companies are unlikely to be paid if London is at loggerheads with Cairo for the foreseeable future. The US defence industry needs pragmatic engagement, not principles. Counter-terrorism may turn out be Sisi's trump card &#8211; just as it was for Mubarak.
> 
> More Egypt's anointing of Sisi will lay bare west's battle between interest and values | World news | theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See also:
> 
> Muslim Sisterhood emerges in Egypt...
> 
> *Massacre of Muslim Brotherhood enables Sister to emerge from shadows*
> _Monday 26 May 2014 - Female activists hope newfound freedom to speak out is here to stay, with many demanding bigger long-term role in wider group_
> 
> 
> 
> On the campaign trail, Egypt's next president, Abdel-Fatah al-Sisi, has aimed much of his attention at women. They are "the calm, soft and rational voice in the house", he said in one interview. "I'm asking you now to preserve our bigger house: Egypt."  On Monday, women at several polling stations in north Cairo appeared to respond to his call, vastly outnumbering male voters. But one women's group stayed home &#8211; the female wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, which boycotted the election.  If the last 11 months have been brutal for the Brotherhood, they have also been transformative for the women who have long operated in its shadow: the Muslim Sisterhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptians wait in line in Cairo to vote in Monday's presidential election. Female voters vastly outnumbered male voters at several polling stations.
> 
> Not long ago, this was a group that rarely protested on its own and was usually led by men.  Now some of its members gather almost daily inside university campuses in protests co-ordinated and attended exclusively by women &#8211; and sometimes they have gathered in the streets.  When 14 members of the Sisterhood were initially sentenced to 11 years in prison [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/07/egypt-frees-21-female-protesters] for protesting last winter, it was not just the severity of the jail terms that raised eyebrows: it was that they were in the streets at all.  "The girls can speak their thoughts now, and they can have their own demonstrations," says one young member, Fatima. "And that never happened before."
> 
> This has led some to demand a bigger long-term role within the wider Muslim Brotherhood group. "It can't be like before, when we were blindly loyal," says Fatima. "We are getting detained, we're getting attacked in the streets &#8211; so we must have some say."  Founded in the 1930s, less than a decade after the Brotherhood, the Sisterhood previously focused on social work. Members of the Brotherhood have often expressed extremely regressive ideas about women's role in society. Sisterhood members have never been allowed to join the Brotherhood's leadership board, and cannot vote on internal decisions. Now its youngest members increasingly say they should be given both rights.  "We were used to playing a secondary role," says Sarah Kamal, a designer in her 20s, and a Muslim Sister. "Both men and women were used to women playing a secondary role. But that's changing for sure."
> 
> MORE
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you say that the September 1948 declaration was late?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Because the Jews beat the muslims to it and had declared on the land destined as Israel. *This meant the muslims could not declare on land already under new ownership, it was not in the UN partition plan of 1947. It also deprived the Jews and Christians of Palestine of their rights to self determination and a homeland making the muslims in breach of UN res 181 which by declaring meant they agreed with it.
> 
> You fail to truth and reality every time you bring up the same false premise spread by the ISLAMONAZIS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is not true.*
> 
> There was a proposed land to be transferred to Israel in resolution 181 but resolution 181 didn't happen. No land was transferred to Israel.
Click to expand...


You're so full of shit. You keep repeating this even though you know it's a lie.
Land transfer had nothing to do with it. You made that up! 
Land transfer is a real estate issue. 
Both Israel AND The Palestinians used resolution 181 as a basis for their declaration of independence.

YOU ARE A LIAR !


----------



## toastman

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Because the Jews beat the muslims to it and had declared on the land destined as Israel. *This meant the muslims could not declare on land already under new ownership, it was not in the UN partition plan of 1947. It also deprived the Jews and Christians of Palestine of their rights to self determination and a homeland making the muslims in breach of UN res 181 which by declaring meant they agreed with it.
> 
> You fail to truth and reality every time you bring up the same false premise spread by the ISLAMONAZIS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *That is not true.*
> 
> There was a proposed land to be transferred to Israel in resolution 181 but resolution 181 didn't happen. No land was transferred to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See you are attempting to remove the Jews rights to self determination by telling lies. The land was transferred to the Jews under 181 as soon as they deposited their declaration with the UN. You can call up as many obscure ISLAMONAZI links as you like the UN and ICJ supersedes them all.
> 
> The Resolution as a legal basis for Palestinian statehood[edit]
> 
> In 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization published the Palestinian Declaration of Independence relying on Resolution 181, arguing that the resolution continues to provide international legitimacy for the right of the Palestinian people to sovereignty and national independence.[107] A number of scholars have written in support of this view.[108][109][110]
> 
> A General Assembly request for an advisory opinion, Resolution ES-10/14 (2004), specifically cited resolution 181(II) as a "relevant resolution", and asked the International Court of Justice (ICJ) what are the legal consequences of the relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions. Judge Abdul Koroma explained the majority opinion: "The Court has also held that the right of self-determination as an established and recognized right under international law applies to the territory and to the Palestinian people. Accordingly, the exercise of such right entitles the Palestinian people to a State of their own as originally envisaged in resolution 181 (II) and subsequently confirmed."[111] In response, Prof. Paul De Waart said that* the Court put the legality of the 1922 League of Nations Palestine Mandate and the 1947 UN Plan of Partition beyond doubt once and for all*
> 
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


You know how many times Rocco and I have shown Tinmore that both Israel and the Palestinians used 181 for their declaration of independence??
Yet he keeps denying it.


----------



## MJB12741

Israel accepted UN resolution 181.  The Palestinians did not, thus making it non binding.  Bye bye any hopes for a Palestinian State.  And lucky for Israel, Palestinian mentality still prevails to this day.


----------



## Phoenall

toastman said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *That is not true.*
> 
> There was a proposed land to be transferred to Israel in resolution 181 but resolution 181 didn't happen. No land was transferred to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See you are attempting to remove the Jews rights to self determination by telling lies. The land was transferred to the Jews under 181 as soon as they deposited their declaration with the UN. You can call up as many obscure ISLAMONAZI links as you like the UN and ICJ supersedes them all.
> 
> The Resolution as a legal basis for Palestinian statehood[edit]
> 
> In 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization published the Palestinian Declaration of Independence relying on Resolution 181, arguing that the resolution continues to provide international legitimacy for the right of the Palestinian people to sovereignty and national independence.[107] A number of scholars have written in support of this view.[108][109][110]
> 
> A General Assembly request for an advisory opinion, Resolution ES-10/14 (2004), specifically cited resolution 181(II) as a "relevant resolution", and asked the International Court of Justice (ICJ) what are the legal consequences of the relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions. Judge Abdul Koroma explained the majority opinion: "The Court has also held that the right of self-determination as an established and recognized right under international law applies to the territory and to the Palestinian people. Accordingly, the exercise of such right entitles the Palestinian people to a State of their own as originally envisaged in resolution 181 (II) and subsequently confirmed."[111] In response, Prof. Paul De Waart said that* the Court put the legality of the 1922 League of Nations Palestine Mandate and the 1947 UN Plan of Partition beyond doubt once and for all*
> 
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know how many times Rocco and I have shown Tinmore that both Israel and the Palestinians used 181 for their declaration of independence??
> Yet he keeps denying it.
Click to expand...




 Now he cant as the link shows the International court of Justice had ruled that 181 was valid and legal


----------



## MJB12741

Why does Israel allow Palestinian squatters with no deeds to the land they have been stealing for generations still remain?


----------



## Phoenall

MJB12741 said:


> Why does Israel allow Palestinian squatters with no deeds to the land they have been stealing for generations still remain?





 Because they are decent humane people who do not like to see others homeless and destitute, so extend the hand of friendship out to them.


----------



## RoccoR

MJB12741,  _et al,_

There is a mixing of apples and oranges here.



MJB12741 said:


> Israel accepted UN resolution 181.  The Palestinians did not, thus making it non binding.  Bye bye any hopes for a Palestinian State.  And lucky for Israel, Palestinian mentality still prevails to this day.


*(COMMENT)*

The acceptance of the resolution, by either side, has nothing to do with whether the resolution is "binding."  

The resolution was much like a contract; with an offer element and an acceptance element.  

The resolution could be accepted by either party, but not imposed or forced on either party.

There was a deadline, (August 1948) but not a withdrawal of the offer.

The rejection by the Arabs, represented an unwillingness to participate in the implementation process.

The Arab Parties (the Higher Committee and League) use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- to establish doubt on matters of authority and intention. 

The Arab Parties use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- when it is to their advantage.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good post, thanks.



RoccoR said:


> MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a mixing of apples and oranges here.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel accepted UN resolution 181.  The Palestinians did not, thus making it non binding.  Bye bye any hopes for a Palestinian State.  And lucky for Israel, Palestinian mentality still prevails to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The acceptance of the resolution, by either side, has nothing to do with whether the resolution is "binding."
Click to expand...

The resolution was non binding until it was approved by both sides and implemented by the Security Council. Neither of those things happened.



> The resolution was much like a contract; with an offer element and an acceptance element.


Indeed, and until it was accepted by both parties, it was nothing more than an offer. 



> The resolution could be accepted by either party, *but not imposed or forced on either party.*


*This is the key element.* Britain refused to implement the plan without the Palestinian's approval. The Security Council was not prepared to implement the resolution by force. The US withdrew its support and was making an alternate proposal. Resolution 181 was dead in the water.



> There was a deadline, (August 1948) but not a withdrawal of the offer.
> 
> The rejection by the Arabs, represented an unwillingness to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> The Arab Parties (the Higher Committee and League) use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- to establish doubt on matters of authority and intention.
> 
> The Arab Parties use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- when it is to their advantage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Good post, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a mixing of apples and oranges here.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel accepted UN resolution 181.  The Palestinians did not, thus making it non binding.  Bye bye any hopes for a Palestinian State.  And lucky for Israel, Palestinian mentality still prevails to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The acceptance of the resolution, by either side, has nothing to do with whether the resolution is "binding."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The resolution was non binding until it was approved by both sides and implemented by the Security Council. Neither of those things happened.
> 
> 
> Indeed, and until it was accepted by both parties, it was nothing more than an offer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The resolution could be accepted by either party, *but not imposed or forced on either party.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *This is the key element.* Britain refused to implement the plan without the Palestinian's approval. The Security Council was not prepared to implement the resolution by force. The US withdrew its support and was making an alternate proposal. Resolution 181 was dead in the water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a deadline, (August 1948) but not a withdrawal of the offer.
> 
> The rejection by the Arabs, represented an unwillingness to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> The Arab Parties (the Higher Committee and League) use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- to establish doubt on matters of authority and intention.
> 
> The Arab Parties use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- when it is to their advantage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The Palestinians themselves used 181 as a basis to declare independence in 1988. So once again, you're lying.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> ...Resolution 181 was dead in the water.


Until the Jews of Old Palestine resurrected it, as a basis for creating the State of Israel.

Which the world recognized as a fait accompli some months (or, in some cases, years) later.

Which the Palestinians themselves resurrected, as the basis for their own declaration.

Thereby reinforcing and re-validating the Jews' original resurrection of 181.

That was damned nice of the Palestinians, to do that for the Israelis, wasn't it?


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

What matter does it make that the Palestinians have an internal conflict in the recognition of the legitimacy of General Assembly Resolution 181(II) today?

There will be, for sometime into the future, those hardliners that will quibble over the facts of the matter.  But today, the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is tied up on issues far remote from the arrangements made and adopted a half century ago.

All that needs to be remembered about GA/RES/181(II) is that:


It was passed on November 1947.
The Israelis accepted, declared independence IAW the preparatory steps of the resolution in 1948.
The Palestinians, the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, exercise their right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory in 1988.

Today, what is important --- is the attainment of a just and reasonable settlement of their international dispute between the Israelis and the Palestinians.  There are any number of ways by which a peaceful settlement can be achieved: 

negotiation, 
inquiry, 
mediation, 
conciliation, 
arbitration, 
judicial settlement, 
regional agencies or arrangements,
--- or --- any combination.

What we exclude are measures that pursue "other than peaceful means" as an option of their choice.

Since the re-opening of hostilities by the Palestinians after the 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, and the amplification of the Jihadist policies since that time, the options for a peaceful solution have been held at length.  It would appear that neither side is ready to enter talks and pursue in good faith --- negotiations for a treaty on a general and complete settlement of disputes with the other; by peaceful means in such a manner that regional peace, security and justice are objectively achieved.

We may argue ancient points and milestones that brought us to this point, but in the end, whether the Palestinian is able to achieve balance in its leadership and assume the role of peace maker is a question for the future.  Today, they are still attempting to stand alone and have a unity government; which has been a quarter-century struggle for political balance with them.  

It is not reasonable to assume that any government can expect to see a "good faith effort" from a government which can not act as a unified body on domestic internal conflicts.  

Further, as along as both major elements, currently attempting to take control of the State of Palestine, are anti-peace based products, it is not likely that a peaceful means in the resolution of disputes will be achieved.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Good post, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a mixing of apples and oranges here.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel accepted UN resolution 181.  The Palestinians did not, thus making it non binding.  Bye bye any hopes for a Palestinian State.  And lucky for Israel, Palestinian mentality still prevails to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The acceptance of the resolution, by either side, has nothing to do with whether the resolution is "binding."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The resolution was non binding until it was approved by both sides and implemented by the Security Council. Neither of those things happened.
> 
> 
> Indeed, and until it was accepted by both parties, it was nothing more than an offer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The resolution could be accepted by either party, *but not imposed or forced on either party.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *This is the key element.* Britain refused to implement the plan without the Palestinian's approval. The Security Council was not prepared to implement the resolution by force. The US withdrew its support and was making an alternate proposal. Resolution 181 was dead in the water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a deadline, (August 1948) but not a withdrawal of the offer.
> 
> The rejection by the Arabs, represented an unwillingness to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> The Arab Parties (the Higher Committee and League) use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- to establish doubt on matters of authority and intention.
> 
> The Arab Parties use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- when it is to their advantage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...





 No they are kept separate

 Until the Palestinians declared their intentions of forming a nation and subverting Israel, by that they accepted UN 181 in August of 1948.

 But they then capitulated and declared in August 1948, thereby agreeing with UN 181

 So now it is time to put yourself in the spotlight and say once and for all that the Palestinians did indeed accept 181 when the declared their intentions, or that they refused to accept 181 and to this day do not have a valid legal state and the land is anyones who can take it and hold it.


----------



## Phoenall

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good post, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a mixing of apples and oranges here.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The acceptance of the resolution, by either side, has nothing to do with whether the resolution is "binding."
> 
> 
> 
> The resolution was non binding until it was approved by both sides and implemented by the Security Council. Neither of those things happened.
> 
> 
> Indeed, and until it was accepted by both parties, it was nothing more than an offer.
> 
> 
> *This is the key element.* Britain refused to implement the plan without the Palestinian's approval. The Security Council was not prepared to implement the resolution by force. The US withdrew its support and was making an alternate proposal. Resolution 181 was dead in the water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a deadline, (August 1948) but not a withdrawal of the offer.
> 
> The rejection by the Arabs, represented an unwillingness to participate in the implementation process.
> 
> The Arab Parties (the Higher Committee and League) use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- to establish doubt on matters of authority and intention.
> 
> The Arab Parties use elements of the Covenant and the Charter --- along with the directive surrounding the Mandate Process and Trustee Program --- when it is to their advantage.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians themselves used 181 as a basis to declare independence in 1988. So once again, you're lying.
Click to expand...






 They did the same thing in August 1948 so this means 181 was implemented.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!





Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1)   No it is you that is wrong as islam was not invented until 627 C.E by one Mohamed an illiterate mentally defective camel herder.
> 
> 2)  That has been debunked because it is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA written by an ISLAMONAZI who twisted the evidence. Most Christians in Palestine are migrants from Christian nations less that 1800 years ago. The true indigenous are the Jews who never left and lived in the area for 4,500 years, shown by a genetic marker known as the Cohen Gene that is not present in any arab muslims.
> 
> 3)  did you try and ignore the first clause, if so here it is for you
> 
> * All States shall cooperate in the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances engaged in by ships on the high seas contrary to international conventions.*   Did you read that ALL STATES part.
> 
> Plus it does not say that other nations cant stop and search a vessel on the high seas does it.  So because Turkey did not ask does not mean Israel cant stop a vessel suspected of gun running and drug smuggling.
> 
> 
> You must try harder when it comes to International Law as you are a mere moron in these matters
> 
> 
> 
> You really like getting bitch-slapped, don't you, gumby?
> 
> 
> Here's a few more international maritime laws proving you're full of shit!
> 
> Let's start with freedom to navigate...
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article87*
> 
> Freedom of the high seas
> 
> 1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> 
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> 
> (b) freedom of overflight;_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BTW, trying to say a vessel carrying humanitarian aid is drug smuggling, is like saying Mother Theresa was a whore!
> 
> You're pretty fucked in the head!
> 
> Back to the laws...
> 
> 
> ...this one proves Israel had no right to stop that ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Article89*
> 
> Invalidity of claims of sovereignty over the high seas
> 
> *No State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty*._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So no, dumbass, you cannot stop a ship in international waters.
> 
> 
> This last law, is in response to your _"...what if Israel suspects..." _line,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ *Article92*
> 
> *Status of ships*
> 
> 1. *Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only *and *shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on the high seas.* _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...which means, fuckhead, if there is any criminal activity on board a ship, it is up to the nation whose flag the ship is sailing under, to investigate and prosecute those involved.
> 
> I notice you don't provide links to back up your claims, you just shoot your fucking mouth off until the cows come home.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Had the Palestinians elected a leader dedicated to their case against Israel like MLK was for Black people against White discrimination against them, the Palestinians would have earned world support.  But lucky for Israel, Palestinians are Palestinians, & they always will be.


----------



## Vigilante

Pass this around to all your Jewish friends! What will happen to Israel with a President Hillary!


----------



## MJB12741

Who can ever forget that Palestinians & their supporters even praised that mentally ill American traitor Rochelle or Raquel or whatever who traveled to the Middle East in a war zone to condemn our American president, burn a mock American flag, join in with Palestinian terrorists chanting death to America & then march in front of moving bulldozer.


----------



## MJB12741

What does documented truth matter to Tinmore?  He has a Palestinian mentality.





Phoenall said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> See you are attempting to remove the Jews rights to self determination by telling lies. The land was transferred to the Jews under 181 as soon as they deposited their declaration with the UN. You can call up as many obscure ISLAMONAZI links as you like the UN and ICJ supersedes them all.
> 
> The Resolution as a legal basis for Palestinian statehood[edit]
> 
> In 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization published the Palestinian Declaration of Independence relying on Resolution 181, arguing that the resolution continues to provide international legitimacy for the right of the Palestinian people to sovereignty and national independence.[107] A number of scholars have written in support of this view.[108][109][110]
> 
> A General Assembly request for an advisory opinion, Resolution ES-10/14 (2004), specifically cited resolution 181(II) as a "relevant resolution", and asked the International Court of Justice (ICJ) what are the legal consequences of the relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions. Judge Abdul Koroma explained the majority opinion: "The Court has also held that the right of self-determination as an established and recognized right under international law applies to the territory and to the Palestinian people. Accordingly, the exercise of such right entitles the Palestinian people to a State of their own as originally envisaged in resolution 181 (II) and subsequently confirmed."[111] In response, Prof. Paul De Waart said that* the Court put the legality of the 1922 League of Nations Palestine Mandate and the 1947 UN Plan of Partition beyond doubt once and for all*
> 
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know how many times Rocco and I have shown Tinmore that both Israel and the Palestinians used 181 for their declaration of independence??
> Yet he keeps denying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now he cant as the link shows the International court of Justice had ruled that 181 was valid and legal
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!


That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.

Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea when the next blockade run is expected, Billo? Any predictions about the outcome?


----------



## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
Click to expand...


Why don't you get all aggravated while the IDF wipes the floor with murderous animals?
Oh!  You already are.
Sucks to be you.


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> Why don't you get all aggravated while the IDF wipes the floor with murderous animals?
> Oh!  You already are.
> Sucks to be you.


That was harsh!

As people go, I'm pretty kick-ass!


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you get all aggravated while the IDF wipes the floor with murderous animals?
> Oh!  You already are.
> Sucks to be you.
> 
> 
> 
> That was harsh!
> 
> As people go, I'm pretty kick-ass!
Click to expand...

You must have a black belt in Palestinian karate.


----------



## MJB12741

Got news for you.  You got that right it was a mistake for Israel to board that ship.  When boarding it for inspection was refused, Israel should have just torpedoed it.





Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
Click to expand...

Why don't you rent a Time Machine and send one of your imaginary battleships to help the Palestinians?

If you don't like the decision that the Israelis made, to interdict the Turkish Gaza Flotilla, before they crossed the blockade picket line, you can always sue Israel in court.

And then you can take that judgment, and add it to your supply of Charmin... or small rocks.


----------



## Kondor3

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any idea when the next blockade run is expected, Billo? Any predictions about the outcome?
Click to expand...

<snicker>

The child lives on Mars or sumfin'...

_Soooooo_ far "out there" that there's little hope of it appreciating the irony...


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Got news for you.  You got that right it was a mistake for Israel to board that ship.  When boarding it for inspection was refused, Israel should have just torpedoed it.


Torpedo a vessel bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza?

Can you get any more evil than that?


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> Do you have any idea when the next blockade run is expected, Billo? Any predictions about the outcome?


The blockade is illegal and immoral.

Somebody needs to go bust it up, then kick Israel's ass for starting it in the first place.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
Click to expand...





 Because of all the evidence stacked up against the vessel, and the claims of the terrorists that were on it the whole world suspected that the whole aim was to smuggle weapons into gaza. This in itself was grounds for any nation to board that vessel and inspect the cargo it carried. The vessel was hailed and asked to stop its progress and to follow the Naval vessel to port were the cargo could be inspected. A request that any ships captain would be a fool to deny more so when the other vessels had already complied with the request and proceeded to an Egyptian port. Because the vessel tried to outrun the naval vessels it became highly suspicious so a boarding party initially armed with paint ball guns was deployed. These were attacked by the passengers and beaten with metal bars and chairs, only after the officer was brutally beaten knifed in the stomach and the would deliberately opend up so his intestines spilled out was the order to use live rounds given. You are aware that the passengers on the vessel were armed with pistols and grenades which they used against the IDF in the run up to the aerial boarding. The video footage supplied by some of the passengers shows this happening, just as it shows the stockpile of weapons on board the vessel. Once the IDF had full control they sailed the vessel to an Israeli port were the passengers were arrested and interviewed. The vessel was searched and found to contain rotten food unfit for human consumption and out of date medicines.

 Care to explain what use these could be to the gazans when they travel to Israel for nost of their medical needs.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
Click to expand...





 If I suspect someone is in the process of committing a crime I can ask them to stop as I am putting them under arrest. I know you are too scared to do this because you allow the carrying of guns so shootings are common place. So it looks like your comparison has been shot down in flames again, and it also shows that the IDF were correct in the manner they boarded all 7 vessels and took control of the situation. The possibility of the vessels carrying illegal weapons was justification enough for the boarding, and the use of brutal force by the passengers was also enough to warrant the shooting of the 9 terrorists.


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you get all aggravated while the IDF wipes the floor with murderous animals?
> Oh!  You already are.
> Sucks to be you.
> 
> 
> 
> That was harsh!
> 
> As people go, I'm pretty kick-ass!
Click to expand...





 Only in your own fantasy world inhabited by just you.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Because of all the evidence stacked up against the vessel, and the claims of the terrorists that were on it the whole world suspected that the whole aim was to smuggle weapons into gaza. This in itself was grounds for any nation to board that vessel and inspect the cargo it carried. The vessel was hailed and asked to stop its progress and to follow the Naval vessel to port were the cargo could be inspected. A request that any ships captain would be a fool to deny more so when the other vessels had already complied with the request and proceeded to an Egyptian port. Because the vessel tried to outrun the naval vessels it became highly suspicious so a boarding party initially armed with paint ball guns was deployed. These were attacked by the passengers and beaten with metal bars and chairs, only after the officer was brutally beaten knifed in the stomach and the would deliberately opend up so his intestines spilled out was the order to use live rounds given. You are aware that the passengers on the vessel were armed with pistols and grenades which they used against the IDF in the run up to the aerial boarding. The video footage supplied by some of the passengers shows this happening, just as it shows the stockpile of weapons on board the vessel. Once the IDF had full control they sailed the vessel to an Israeli port were the passengers were arrested and interviewed. The vessel was searched and found to contain rotten food unfit for human consumption and out of date medicines.
> 
> Care to explain what use these could be to the gazans when they travel to Israel for nost of their medical needs.


People smuggling weapons into country's, don't announce their trip at a press conference weeks in advance.  This so-called "suspicion", is nothing more than a lame ass attempt to deflect attention from the fact that it is illegal to stop a ship in international waters.  Especially one carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza.

And even if they were carrying weapons, are you saying Gazan's don't have a right to defend themselves?  You need weapons to do that.  Israel does not have the right to dictate how others should live their lives.  If you can't see how wrong that is, then you're mentally disturbed.


----------



## Billo_Really

Phoenall said:


> Only in your own fantasy world inhabited by just you.


And what a kick-ass world it is!


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got news for you.  You got that right it was a mistake for Israel to board that ship.  When boarding it for inspection was refused, Israel should have just torpedoed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Torpedo a vessel bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza?
> 
> Can you get any more evil than that?
Click to expand...




 How about bringing food unfit for human consumption and medical supplies so out of date the instructions were written in Latin. If given to the people it would have caused untold numbers of deaths and illness, would you blame that on the Jews as well ?


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any idea when the next blockade run is expected, Billo? Any predictions about the outcome?
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade is illegal and immoral.
> 
> Somebody needs to go bust it up, then kick Israel's ass for starting it in the first place.
Click to expand...




 Not according to experts in INTERNATIONAL LAW which is why no one has tried to have it lifted. While the rockets and other attacks from the Palestinians and their supporters continue the blockade is legal and moral.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any idea when the next blockade run is expected, Billo? Any predictions about the outcome?
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade is illegal and immoral.
> 
> Somebody needs to go bust it up, then kick Israel's ass for starting it in the first place.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Hamas will be happy to accept your Volunteer Application for that purpose.

They have a motorized skiff and a 'special' vest, waiting for you.

As well as 72 virgins, warming-up in the bullpen.


----------



## Kondor3

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any idea when the next blockade run is expected, Billo? Any predictions about the outcome?
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade is illegal and immoral.
> 
> Somebody needs to go bust it up, then kick Israel's ass for starting it in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to experts in INTERNATIONAL LAW which is why no one has tried to have it lifted. While the rockets and other attacks from the Palestinians and their supporters continue the blockade is legal and moral.
Click to expand...

Hell, even the _Egyptians_ are participating in the blockade.

Having finally come to their senses and recognizing the Palestinians for the mad dogs that they are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> The blockade is illegal and immoral.
> 
> Somebody needs to go bust it up, then kick Israel's ass for starting it in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to experts in INTERNATIONAL LAW which is why no one has tried to have it lifted. While the rockets and other attacks from the Palestinians and their supporters continue the blockade is legal and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hell, even the _Egyptians_ are participating in the blockade.
> 
> Having finally come to their senses and recognizing the Palestinians for the mad dogs that they are.
Click to expand...


*And the US pays them a couple $B a year to do it.*

Why do you think the (US owned) Egyptian military took out Morsi? He wasn't following Israel's script.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! Good one.  Yeah right, let's have Turkish terrorists inspect the flotilla for weapons.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Because of all the evidence stacked up against the vessel, and the claims of the terrorists that were on it the whole world suspected that the whole aim was to smuggle weapons into gaza.* This in itself was grounds for any nation to board that vessel and inspect the cargo it carried. The vessel was hailed and asked to stop its progress and to follow the Naval vessel to port were the cargo could be inspected. A request that any ships captain would be a fool to deny more so when the other vessels had already complied with the request and proceeded to an Egyptian port. Because the vessel tried to outrun the naval vessels it became highly suspicious so a boarding party initially armed with paint ball guns was deployed. These were attacked by the passengers and beaten with metal bars and chairs, only after the officer was brutally beaten knifed in the stomach and the would deliberately opend up so his intestines spilled out was the order to use live rounds given. You are aware that the passengers on the vessel were armed with pistols and grenades which they used against the IDF in the run up to the aerial boarding. The video footage supplied by some of the passengers shows this happening, just as it shows the stockpile of weapons on board the vessel. Once the IDF had full control they sailed the vessel to an Israeli port were the passengers were arrested and interviewed. The vessel was searched and found to contain rotten food unfit for human consumption and out of date medicines.
> 
> Care to explain what use these could be to the gazans when they travel to Israel for nost of their medical needs.
Click to expand...


*Bullshit post of the week!*


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Because of all the evidence stacked up against the vessel, and the claims of the terrorists that were on it the whole world suspected that the whole aim was to smuggle weapons into gaza.* This in itself was grounds for any nation to board that vessel and inspect the cargo it carried. The vessel was hailed and asked to stop its progress and to follow the Naval vessel to port were the cargo could be inspected. A request that any ships captain would be a fool to deny more so when the other vessels had already complied with the request and proceeded to an Egyptian port. Because the vessel tried to outrun the naval vessels it became highly suspicious so a boarding party initially armed with paint ball guns was deployed. These were attacked by the passengers and beaten with metal bars and chairs, only after the officer was brutally beaten knifed in the stomach and the would deliberately opend up so his intestines spilled out was the order to use live rounds given. You are aware that the passengers on the vessel were armed with pistols and grenades which they used against the IDF in the run up to the aerial boarding. The video footage supplied by some of the passengers shows this happening, just as it shows the stockpile of weapons on board the vessel. Once the IDF had full control they sailed the vessel to an Israeli port were the passengers were arrested and interviewed. The vessel was searched and found to contain rotten food unfit for human consumption and out of date medicines.
> 
> Care to explain what use these could be to the gazans when they travel to Israel for nost of their medical needs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
Click to expand...


And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to experts in INTERNATIONAL LAW which is why no one has tried to have it lifted. While the rockets and other attacks from the Palestinians and their supporters continue the blockade is legal and moral.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, even the _Egyptians_ are participating in the blockade.
> 
> Having finally come to their senses and recognizing the Palestinians for the mad dogs that they are.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *And the US pays them a couple $B a year to do it.*
> 
> Why do you think the (US owned) Egyptian military took out Morsi? He wasn't following Israel's script.
Click to expand...




 You can of course produce a link from other than a pro Palestinian source to back up your ANTI SEMITIC RACIST CLAIM


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Because of all the evidence stacked up against the vessel, and the claims of the terrorists that were on it the whole world suspected that the whole aim was to smuggle weapons into gaza.* This in itself was grounds for any nation to board that vessel and inspect the cargo it carried. The vessel was hailed and asked to stop its progress and to follow the Naval vessel to port were the cargo could be inspected. A request that any ships captain would be a fool to deny more so when the other vessels had already complied with the request and proceeded to an Egyptian port. Because the vessel tried to outrun the naval vessels it became highly suspicious so a boarding party initially armed with paint ball guns was deployed. These were attacked by the passengers and beaten with metal bars and chairs, only after the officer was brutally beaten knifed in the stomach and the would deliberately opend up so his intestines spilled out was the order to use live rounds given. You are aware that the passengers on the vessel were armed with pistols and grenades which they used against the IDF in the run up to the aerial boarding. The video footage supplied by some of the passengers shows this happening, just as it shows the stockpile of weapons on board the vessel. Once the IDF had full control they sailed the vessel to an Israeli port were the passengers were arrested and interviewed. The vessel was searched and found to contain rotten food unfit for human consumption and out of date medicines.
> 
> Care to explain what use these could be to the gazans when they travel to Israel for nost of their medical needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
Click to expand...


*Another Israeli lie.*

The contents of those ships were inspected by the port authorities of the countries of departure. Journalists and media were invited to inspect the cargo. The flotilla offered to have the ships inspected by an international body like the UN and the Red Cross.

Not to mention that I would be surprised if Massad was not on the dock listing the contents.

Everybody knew that there were no weapons but many people believe every Israeli lie that comes down the pike.


----------



## aris2chat

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got news for you.  You got that right it was a mistake for Israel to board that ship.  When boarding it for inspection was refused, Israel should have just torpedoed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Torpedo a vessel bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza?
> 
> Can you get any more evil than that?
Click to expand...


crayons, coloring books and chocolate were not exactly a priority need.
wheelchairs could have been helpful but wheels could be put on any of several chairs or what many have done, use a skate board.  They get around amazingly fast.
I used a office chair that had wheels and a broom handle with a rubber tip I added so I could use it like a ski poll or canoe paddle to move around. 
Yes, a wheelchair would be better to get around outside, but it also is not exactly a top necessity to supply the "starving palestinians with no light, gas, medicine, water or sewage" as was claimed.
anyone with a little DIY skills could take old bike wheels, with or without tubes and put them on an axial and attach those as back wheels to a chair.  Old pram wheels or wheel barrow wheels could be use as well.
For smaller people or children, those folding umbrella strollers can carry a lot of weight and can be push across a lot of different terrains.  You can put a folding or removable wooden/metal seat and adapt it for a larger teen size.  A bit of electrical knowledge and you can put on electric motor with switch or old game paddle and/or remote control.  A little 2" computer with a tiny blue tooth and you could use your smart phone to operate the chair.

The boat was not filled with supplies and all those people were not need in gaza except as a publicity stunt, and giving IDF the finger so to speak.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Another Israeli lie.*
> 
> The contents of those ships were inspected by the port authorities of the countries of departure. Journalists and media were invited to inspect the cargo. The flotilla offered to have the ships inspected by an international body like the UN and the Red Cross.
> 
> Not to mention that I would be surprised if Massad was not on the dock listing the contents.
> 
> Everybody knew that there were no weapons but many people believe every Israeli lie that comes down the pike.
Click to expand...


The other ships yes, apart from the Mavi Marmara whose aim was to purely break the blockade.  The ships with goods on obeyed the law and sailed to the port whereas the activists' ship (you know, the Mavi Marmara with the excitable jihadists on board) just wanted to make a name for themselves and berth at Gaza.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not your fuckin' decision to make!  Or do you think you have a right to tell people what to do on a public street?  Because basically, that's what international waters are, a public street.
> 
> Tell you what, why don't you go outside right now and walk up to complete strangers and start barking orders at them, then come back and tell us what happened next.  If you do that, I guarantee you will see how wrong it was for Israel to board that ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Because of all the evidence stacked up against the vessel, and the claims of the terrorists that were on it the whole world suspected that the whole aim was to smuggle weapons into gaza.* This in itself was grounds for any nation to board that vessel and inspect the cargo it carried. The vessel was hailed and asked to stop its progress and to follow the Naval vessel to port were the cargo could be inspected. A request that any ships captain would be a fool to deny more so when the other vessels had already complied with the request and proceeded to an Egyptian port. Because the vessel tried to outrun the naval vessels it became highly suspicious so a boarding party initially armed with paint ball guns was deployed. These were attacked by the passengers and beaten with metal bars and chairs, only after the officer was brutally beaten knifed in the stomach and the would deliberately opend up so his intestines spilled out was the order to use live rounds given. You are aware that the passengers on the vessel were armed with pistols and grenades which they used against the IDF in the run up to the aerial boarding. The video footage supplied by some of the passengers shows this happening, just as it shows the stockpile of weapons on board the vessel. Once the IDF had full control they sailed the vessel to an Israeli port were the passengers were arrested and interviewed. The vessel was searched and found to contain rotten food unfit for human consumption and out of date medicines.
> 
> Care to explain what use these could be to the gazans when they travel to Israel for nost of their medical needs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
Click to expand...





 Have you seen the video made by the Western journalists yet that shows just this and more. Or do you believe the fake stories put out by people who were not even there.

 Do a search for Lara Lee and Mavi Marnara to see the footage of the guns, grenades, knives, metal bars etc. And also the expired medical supplies and 8,000 tonnes of contraband out of 10,000 tonnes of cargo.


----------



## Phoenall

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Because of all the evidence stacked up against the vessel, and the claims of the terrorists that were on it the whole world suspected that the whole aim was to smuggle weapons into gaza.* This in itself was grounds for any nation to board that vessel and inspect the cargo it carried. The vessel was hailed and asked to stop its progress and to follow the Naval vessel to port were the cargo could be inspected. A request that any ships captain would be a fool to deny more so when the other vessels had already complied with the request and proceeded to an Egyptian port. Because the vessel tried to outrun the naval vessels it became highly suspicious so a boarding party initially armed with paint ball guns was deployed. These were attacked by the passengers and beaten with metal bars and chairs, only after the officer was brutally beaten knifed in the stomach and the would deliberately opend up so his intestines spilled out was the order to use live rounds given. You are aware that the passengers on the vessel were armed with pistols and grenades which they used against the IDF in the run up to the aerial boarding. The video footage supplied by some of the passengers shows this happening, just as it shows the stockpile of weapons on board the vessel. Once the IDF had full control they sailed the vessel to an Israeli port were the passengers were arrested and interviewed. The vessel was searched and found to contain rotten food unfit for human consumption and out of date medicines.
> 
> Care to explain what use these could be to the gazans when they travel to Israel for nost of their medical needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
Click to expand...





 Most of it comes from the videos taken by Lara Lee who smuggled them of the vessel, they show the true extent of the terrorism employed and the brutality used. Will he deny this footage that was just part of the pro Palestinians evidence of Israeli atrocities.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Phoenall said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of it comes from the videos taken by Lara Lee who smuggled them of the vessel, they show the true extent of the terrorism employed and the brutality used. Will he deny this footage that was just part of the pro Palestinians evidence of Israeli atrocities.
Click to expand...


Obviously he cannot deny it.  There is an abundance of proof on the net about the subject.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Another Israeli lie.*
> 
> The contents of those ships were inspected by the port authorities of the countries of departure. Journalists and media were invited to inspect the cargo. The flotilla offered to have the ships inspected by an international body like the UN and the Red Cross.
> 
> Not to mention that I would be surprised if Massad was not on the dock listing the contents.
> 
> Everybody knew that there were no weapons but many people believe every Israeli lie that comes down the pike.
Click to expand...





 That would not stop them from loading at another port would it, say Famagusta in Cyprus were the flotilla stopped.


----------



## Phoenall

aris2chat said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got news for you.  You got that right it was a mistake for Israel to board that ship.  When boarding it for inspection was refused, Israel should have just torpedoed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Torpedo a vessel bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza?
> 
> Can you get any more evil than that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> crayons, coloring books and chocolate were not exactly a priority need.
> wheelchairs could have been helpful but wheels could be put on any of several chairs or what many have done, use a skate board.  They get around amazingly fast.
> I used a office chair that had wheels and a broom handle with a rubber tip I added so I could use it like a ski poll or canoe paddle to move around.
> Yes, a wheelchair would be better to get around outside, but it also is not exactly a top necessity to supply the "starving palestinians with no light, gas, medicine, water or sewage" as was claimed.
> anyone with a little DIY skills could take old bike wheels, with or without tubes and put them on an axial and attach those as back wheels to a chair.  Old pram wheels or wheel barrow wheels could be use as well.
> For smaller people or children, those folding umbrella strollers can carry a lot of weight and can be push across a lot of different terrains.  You can put a folding or removable wooden/metal seat and adapt it for a larger teen size.  A bit of electrical knowledge and you can put on electric motor with switch or old game paddle and/or remote control.  A little 2" computer with a tiny blue tooth and you could use your smart phone to operate the chair.
> 
> The boat was not filled with supplies and all those people were not need in gaza except as a publicity stunt, and giving IDF the finger so to speak.
Click to expand...





 Of the 10,000 tonnes of aid 8,000 was banned building materials that could be used to build smuggling tunnels . So the raid on the vessels was justified by that alone.


 Israel said humanitarian aid confiscated from the ships would be transferred to Gaza, but that it would not transfer banned items such as cement.[63] At the same briefing, they said that they found construction equipment, including concrete and metal rods, that were not allowed into Gaza. The IDF said that all of the equipment on board was examined and none of it was in shortage in Gaza.[198] According to Israeli and Palestinian sources, Hamas refused to allow the humanitarian aid into Gaza until Israeli authorities released all flotilla detainees and allowed building materials, which are thought to make up 8,000 of the 10,000 tons of the goods, to reach them

Gaza flotilla raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to experts in INTERNATIONAL LAW which is why no one has tried to have it lifted. While the rockets and other attacks from the Palestinians and their supporters continue the blockade is legal and moral.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, even the _Egyptians_ are participating in the blockade.
> 
> Having finally come to their senses and recognizing the Palestinians for the mad dogs that they are.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the US pays them a couple $B a year to do it.
> 
> Why do you think the (US owned) Egyptian military took out Morsi? He wasn't following Israel's script.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to experts in INTERNATIONAL LAW which is why no one has tried to have it lifted. While the rockets and other attacks from the Palestinians and their supporters continue the blockade is legal and moral.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, even the _Egyptians_ are participating in the blockade.
> 
> Having finally come to their senses and recognizing the Palestinians for the mad dogs that they are.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *And the US pays them a couple $B a year to do it.*
> 
> Why do you think the (US owned) Egyptian military took out Morsi? He wasn't following Israel's script.
Click to expand...


Egypt gets $1.6 billion in US military aid per year.  There is economic aid as well.


----------



## aris2chat

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Another Israeli lie.*
> 
> The contents of those ships were inspected by the port authorities of the countries of departure. Journalists and media were invited to inspect the cargo. The flotilla offered to have the ships inspected by an international body like the UN and the Red Cross.
> 
> Not to mention that I would be surprised if Massad was not on the dock listing the contents.
> 
> Everybody knew that there were no weapons but many people believe every Israeli lie that comes down the pike.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The other ships yes, apart from the Mavi Marmara whose aim was to purely break the blockade.  The ships with goods on obeyed the law and sailed to the port whereas the activists' ship (you know, the Mavi Marmara with the excitable jihadists on board) just wanted to make a name for themselves and berth at Gaza.
Click to expand...


Dock at Israel and transport the supplies by land to gaza.  No blockade run war necessary, or a boat load of publicity seekers.
It was not about supplies but about a naval blockade by both Israel and Egypt, to keep items that can be used to make weapons or tunnels from getting to the militant/terrorist.
The issue of the fuel for the power plant, electrical blackouts, was a money dispute between the PA and Hamas, not Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullshit post of the week!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of it comes from the videos taken by Lara Lee who smuggled them of the vessel, they show the true extent of the terrorism employed and the brutality used. Will he deny this footage that was just part of the pro Palestinians evidence of Israeli atrocities.
Click to expand...


This Lara Lee?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5r79IN7vVs]Lara Lee, Activist & filmmaker, Culture of Resistance-The Autograph-05-07-2011-(Part2) - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTN-WMrS3Ig]Lara Lee, Activist & filmmaker, Culture of Resistance-The Autograph-05-07-2011-(Part1) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Kondor3

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, even the _Egyptians_ are participating in the blockade.
> 
> Having finally come to their senses and recognizing the Palestinians for the mad dogs that they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the US pays them a couple $B a year to do it.]
> 
> Why do you think the (US owned) Egyptian military took out Morsi? He wasn't following Israel's script.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Egypt gets $1.6 billion in US military aid per year.  There is economic aid as well.*
Click to expand...

They do, indeed.

Egypt concluded a peace treaty with Israel decades ago.

Egypt has been taking US aid money for almost as long.

Once the Egyptians kicked-out the Soviets.

But there is, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptians are participating in the Blockade of Gaza, as a condition of continuing to receive US aid money (military or economic).

Egyptian participation in the Gaza Blockade began when the Egyptians shut-down the border and destroyed Palestinian tunnels that snuck under Egyptian barriers, because the Palestinians were becoming dangerous to Egypt, as well.

There is also, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptian Army took out Morsi because he was not playing ball with Israel.

A sizable percentage of the Egyptian People rose against Morsi, demonstrating for many days in the streets, until the demonstrations reached a Critical Mass, and the Egyptian Army stepped in.

The Turkish Army has been the Guardian of the State for most of the century since the fall of the Ottomans after WWI. When a civilian government strays too far from the secular model crafted by Ataturk, the Army steps in and bitch-slaps the government.

It seems entirely likely that the Egyptian Army did exactly the same thing, in removing Morsi.

The Egyptian Army took the side of the masses of protesters who saw a grave risk of Egypt becoming another Shariah-Law -ruled shit-hole, suppressing hard-won freedoms and modern conventions - so the Army took sides, and bitch-slapped the Muslim Brotherhood Mouthpiece and the rest of his Brotherhood butt-buddies.

Tinny knows all this... but saying that the Brotherhood was dumped at Israel's (by proxy, through the US) command, does make for good Goebbels -style propaganda droppings.


----------



## MJB12741

Yes, Egypt knows the Palestinians well.  As soon as Israel granted them their own Gaza, Egypt closed the border on the Palestinians to starve them.  And has ANYONE heard of a single Palestinian  or Palestinian supporter complaint about that?  






Kondor3 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *And the US pays them a couple $B a year to do it.*
> 
> Why do you think the (US owned) Egyptian military took out Morsi? He wasn't following Israel's script.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt gets $1.6 billion in US military aid per year.  There is economic aid as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They do, indeed.
> 
> Egypt concluded a peace treaty with Israel decades ago.
> 
> Egypt has been taking US aid money for almost as long.
> 
> Once the Egyptians kicked-out the Soviets.
> 
> But there is, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptians are participating in the Blockade of Gaza, as a condition of continuing to receive US aid money (military or economic).
> 
> Egyptian participation in the Gaza Blockade began when the Egyptians shut-down the border and destroyed Palestinian tunnels that snuck under Egyptian barriers, because the Palestinians were becoming dangerous to Egypt, as well.
> 
> There is also, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptian Army took out Morsi because he was not playing ball with Israel.
> 
> A sizable percentage of the Egyptian People rose against Morsi, demonstrating for many days in the streets, until the demonstrations reached a Critical Mass, and the Egyptian Army stepped in.
> 
> The Turkish Army has been the Guardian of the State for most of the century since the fall of the Ottomans after WWI. When a civilian government strays too far from the secular model crafted by Ataturk, the Army steps in and bitch-slaps the government.
> 
> It seems entirely likely that the Egyptian Army did exactly the same thing, in removing Morsi.
> 
> The Egyptian Army took the side of the masses of protesters who saw a grave risk of Egypt becoming another Shariah-Law -ruled shit-hole, suppressing hard-won freedoms and modern conventions - so the Army took sides, and bitch-slapped the Muslim Brotherhood Mouthpiece and the rest of his Brotherhood butt-buddies.
> 
> Tinny knows all this... but saying that the Brotherhood was dumped at Israel's (by proxy, through the US) command, does make for good Goebbels -style propaganda droppings.
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

Kondor3 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the US pays them a couple $B a year to do it.]
> 
> Why do you think the (US owned) Egyptian military took out Morsi? He wasn't following Israel's script.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt gets $1.6 billion in US military aid per year.  There is economic aid as well.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They do, indeed.
> 
> Egypt concluded a peace treaty with Israel decades ago.
> 
> Egypt has been taking US aid money for almost as long.
> 
> Once the Egyptians kicked-out the Soviets.
> 
> But there is, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptians are participating in the Blockade of Gaza, as a condition of continuing to receive US aid money (military or economic).
> 
> Egyptian participation in the Gaza Blockade began when the Egyptians shut-down the border and destroyed Palestinian tunnels that snuck under Egyptian barriers, because the Palestinians were becoming dangerous to Egypt, as well.
> 
> There is also, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptian Army took out Morsi because he was not playing ball with Israel.
> 
> A sizable percentage of the Egyptian People rose against Morsi, demonstrating for many days in the streets, until the demonstrations reached a Critical Mass, and the Egyptian Army stepped in.
> 
> The Turkish Army has been the Guardian of the State for most of the century since the fall of the Ottomans after WWI. When a civilian government strays too far from the secular model crafted by Ataturk, the Army steps in and bitch-slaps the government.
> 
> It seems entirely likely that the Egyptian Army did exactly the same thing, in removing Morsi.
> 
> The Egyptian Army took the side of the masses of protesters who saw a grave risk of Egypt becoming another Shariah-Law -ruled shit-hole, suppressing hard-won freedoms and modern conventions - so the Army took sides, and bitch-slapped the Muslim Brotherhood Mouthpiece and the rest of his Brotherhood butt-buddies.
> 
> Tinny knows all this... but saying that the Brotherhood was dumped at Israel's (by proxy, through the US) command, does make for good Goebbels -style propaganda droppings.
Click to expand...


Gaza fisherman shot by Egyptian boats | Maan News Agency

PS: Egypt will open Rafah crossing for three day in order to allow Umrah pilgrims to travel to Saudi Arabia and others to return to Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> See you are attempting to remove the Jews rights to self determination by telling lies. The land was transferred to the Jews under 181 as soon as they deposited their declaration with the UN. You can call up as many obscure ISLAMONAZI links as you like the UN and ICJ supersedes them all.
> 
> The Resolution as a legal basis for Palestinian statehood[edit]
> 
> In 1988, the Palestine Liberation Organization published the Palestinian Declaration of Independence relying on Resolution 181, arguing that the resolution continues to provide international legitimacy for the right of the Palestinian people to sovereignty and national independence.[107] A number of scholars have written in support of this view.[108][109][110]
> 
> A General Assembly request for an advisory opinion, Resolution ES-10/14 (2004), specifically cited resolution 181(II) as a "relevant resolution", and asked the International Court of Justice (ICJ) what are the legal consequences of the relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions. Judge Abdul Koroma explained the majority opinion: "The Court has also held that the right of self-determination as an established and recognized right under international law applies to the territory and to the Palestinian people. Accordingly, the exercise of such right entitles the Palestinian people to a State of their own as originally envisaged in resolution 181 (II) and subsequently confirmed."[111] In response, Prof. Paul De Waart said that* the Court put the legality of the 1922 League of Nations Palestine Mandate and the 1947 UN Plan of Partition beyond doubt once and for all*
> 
> United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know how many times Rocco and I have shown Tinmore that both Israel and the Palestinians used 181 for their declaration of independence??
> Yet he keeps denying it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now he cant as the link shows the International court of Justice had ruled that 181 was valid and legal
Click to expand...


Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:

Two states on the proposed borders.

An international Jerusalem.

Equal rights for all.

An economic union.

All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)

And there will be peace.

Praise the Lord!


----------



## MJB12741

Gosh I wonder why Egypt wasn't too happy about the Palestinians digging tunnels?  Heh Heh!

Egypt destroys smuggling tunnels on Gaza border | The Times of Israel







aris2chat said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt gets $1.6 billion in US military aid per year.  There is economic aid as well.*
> 
> 
> 
> They do, indeed.
> 
> Egypt concluded a peace treaty with Israel decades ago.
> 
> Egypt has been taking US aid money for almost as long.
> 
> Once the Egyptians kicked-out the Soviets.
> 
> But there is, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptians are participating in the Blockade of Gaza, as a condition of continuing to receive US aid money (military or economic).
> 
> Egyptian participation in the Gaza Blockade began when the Egyptians shut-down the border and destroyed Palestinian tunnels that snuck under Egyptian barriers, because the Palestinians were becoming dangerous to Egypt, as well.
> 
> There is also, to my knowledge, no credible evidence that the Egyptian Army took out Morsi because he was not playing ball with Israel.
> 
> A sizable percentage of the Egyptian People rose against Morsi, demonstrating for many days in the streets, until the demonstrations reached a Critical Mass, and the Egyptian Army stepped in.
> 
> The Turkish Army has been the Guardian of the State for most of the century since the fall of the Ottomans after WWI. When a civilian government strays too far from the secular model crafted by Ataturk, the Army steps in and bitch-slaps the government.
> 
> It seems entirely likely that the Egyptian Army did exactly the same thing, in removing Morsi.
> 
> The Egyptian Army took the side of the masses of protesters who saw a grave risk of Egypt becoming another Shariah-Law -ruled shit-hole, suppressing hard-won freedoms and modern conventions - so the Army took sides, and bitch-slapped the Muslim Brotherhood Mouthpiece and the rest of his Brotherhood butt-buddies.
> 
> Tinny knows all this... but saying that the Brotherhood was dumped at Israel's (by proxy, through the US) command, does make for good Goebbels -style propaganda droppings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza fisherman shot by Egyptian boats | Maan News Agency
> 
> PS: Egypt will open Rafah crossing for three day in order to allow Umrah pilgrims to travel to Saudi Arabia and others to return to Gaza.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!



Methinks the time for that is past...

First lost window-of-opportunity was 1949...

Second (and final?) lost window-of-opportunity was 1967...

The Palestinians may very well be fresh-out of windows-of-opportunity...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Methinks the time for that is past...
> 
> First lost window-of-opportunity was 1949...
> 
> Second (and final?) lost window-of-opportunity was 1967...
> 
> The Palestinians may very well be fresh-out of windows-of-opportunity...
Click to expand...


But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?


----------



## MJB12741

Priase be to Allah the Palestinians rejected 181.  Bye bye Palestinian State.  It's called Palestinian mentality.







P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Methinks the time for that is past...
> 
> First lost window-of-opportunity was 1949...
> 
> Second (and final?) lost window-of-opportunity was 1967...
> 
> The Palestinians may very well be fresh-out of windows-of-opportunity...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Methinks the time for that is past...
> 
> First lost window-of-opportunity was 1949...
> 
> Second (and final?) lost window-of-opportunity was 1967...
> 
> The Palestinians may very well be fresh-out of windows-of-opportunity...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?
Click to expand...


Wow , just wow Tinmore.

Both sides used 181 as a basis for their DOI . I'm talking about the partition part. The part that allotted land to both sides.

We have provided you with links that prove this very exact point, but you still come up with your 'but but but this and that!'

This is why no one likes debating with you. You can't handle the truth when it's thrown right in your face.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know how many times Rocco and I have shown Tinmore that both Israel and the Palestinians used 181 for their declaration of independence??
> Yet he keeps denying it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now he cant as the link shows the International court of Justice had ruled that 181 was valid and legal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!
Click to expand...


Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen rejected it.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have the gall to say his post was bullshit when ALL THE EVIDENCE points otherwise.  You really are losing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of it comes from the videos taken by Lara Lee who smuggled them of the vessel, they show the true extent of the terrorism employed and the brutality used. Will he deny this footage that was just part of the pro Palestinians evidence of Israeli atrocities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This Lara Lee?
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5r79IN7vVs]Lara Lee, Activist & filmmaker, Culture of Resistance-The Autograph-05-07-2011-(Part2) - YouTube[/ame]
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTN-WMrS3Ig]Lara Lee, Activist & filmmaker, Culture of Resistance-The Autograph-05-07-2011-(Part1) - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...





 The one on board the blockade running vessel that tried to fight the IDF.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know how many times Rocco and I have shown Tinmore that both Israel and the Palestinians used 181 for their declaration of independence??
> Yet he keeps denying it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now he cant as the link shows the International court of Justice had ruled that 181 was valid and legal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!
Click to expand...





 Un 181 did not stipulate any borders, it just laid down guidelines. Try reading it

 The arab muslims destroyed the chance of an international Jerusalem, but if it did come about the Palestinian squatters would be forced to leave and Palestine could not have it as its capital city.

 Only if the Palestinians grant the people equal rights, at the moment they don't.

 Only if Palestine adds to the economic union, and not just steals what it can.

 Meaning that Jews will eventually rule all of the land through the ballot box and not through violence.

 Only if the Palestinians give up terrorism, violence and belligerence. If they don't then the situation will be very much as it is now, only with more Palestinian deaths .


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Methinks the time for that is past...
> 
> First lost window-of-opportunity was 1949...
> 
> Second (and final?) lost window-of-opportunity was 1967...
> 
> The Palestinians may very well be fresh-out of windows-of-opportunity...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?
Click to expand...





 Does not mean that the Palestinians get a do over, it stands at the moment until such time as mutually agreed borders and peace have been negotiated. You see more recent UN resolutions supersede 181, and take away from the Palestinians more than they are prepared to give up. This includes Jerusalem and the two carbuncles on the Temple mount. Any treaties made after 1947 will still stand meaning that they will have lost land to Israel in the treaties with Egypt and Jordan. 
 You are not very bright are you, being a one trick pony.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Methinks the time for that is past...
> 
> First lost window-of-opportunity was 1949...
> 
> Second (and final?) lost window-of-opportunity was 1967...
> 
> The Palestinians may very well be fresh-out of windows-of-opportunity...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does not mean that the Palestinians get a do over, it stands at the moment until such time as mutually agreed borders and peace have been negotiated. You see more recent UN resolutions supersede 181, and take away from the Palestinians more than they are prepared to give up. This includes Jerusalem and the two carbuncles on the Temple mount. Any treaties made after 1947 will still stand meaning that they will have lost land to Israel in the treaties with Egypt and Jordan.
> You are not very bright are you, being a one trick pony.
Click to expand...


It is said constantly that Israel "accepted" resolution 181. However, Israel:

Rejected the proposed borders.

Rejected the international status of Jerusalem.

Rejected the rights of the non Jewish population.
What part of resolution 181 did Israel accept?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does not mean that the Palestinians get a do over, it stands at the moment until such time as mutually agreed borders and peace have been negotiated. You see more recent UN resolutions supersede 181, and take away from the Palestinians more than they are prepared to give up. This includes Jerusalem and the two carbuncles on the Temple mount. Any treaties made after 1947 will still stand meaning that they will have lost land to Israel in the treaties with Egypt and Jordan.
> You are not very bright are you, being a one trick pony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is said constantly that Israel "accepted" resolution 181. However, Israel:
> 
> Rejected the proposed borders.
> 
> Rejected the international status of Jerusalem.
> 
> Rejected the rights of the non Jewish population.
> What part of resolution 181 did Israel accept?
Click to expand...


Not that it's relevant, but can you please show me where Israel rejected all that?


----------



## toastman

Why does Tinmore lie about resolution 181 being invalid, when the Palestinians THEMSELVES used it as justification to declare independence in 1988:

The Declaration contains an overt acceptance that "the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into two states [...] provides the legal basis for the right of the Palestinian Arab people to national sovereignty and independence." Our recognition of the authority of Resolution 181, combined with our acknowledgment (in the same session of the PNC) of UN Security Council Resolutions 242 (1967) and 338 (1973) as the basis for settling the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, signaled our formal acceptance of the two-state solution.

http://english.pnn.ps/index.php/nat...ion-of-independence-of-the-state-of-palestine


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does not mean that the Palestinians get a do over, it stands at the moment until such time as mutually agreed borders and peace have been negotiated. You see more recent UN resolutions supersede 181, and take away from the Palestinians more than they are prepared to give up. This includes Jerusalem and the two carbuncles on the Temple mount. Any treaties made after 1947 will still stand meaning that they will have lost land to Israel in the treaties with Egypt and Jordan.
> You are not very bright are you, being a one trick pony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is said constantly that Israel "accepted" resolution 181. However, Israel:
> 
> Rejected the proposed borders.
> 
> Rejected the international status of Jerusalem.
> 
> Rejected the rights of the non Jewish population.
> *What part of resolution 181 did Israel accept?*
Click to expand...

The part where they get to create their own country by carving off a piece of Old Palestine?


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, now that both sides agree on resolution 181, we will have:
> 
> Two states on the proposed borders.
> 
> An international Jerusalem.
> 
> Equal rights for all.
> 
> An economic union.
> 
> All people will have citizenship in the land of their residence. (including refugees)
> 
> And there will be peace.
> 
> Praise the Lord!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Methinks the time for that is past...
> 
> First lost window-of-opportunity was 1949...
> 
> Second (and final?) lost window-of-opportunity was 1967...
> 
> The Palestinians may very well be fresh-out of windows-of-opportunity...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But what about the claim that resolution 181 is legal and valid?
Click to expand...

It is obvious that Israel cherry-picked the parts of 181 that they wanted, and set the rest aside.

Given the preconditions established by Balfour, etc., I don't blame 'em in the slightest for cherry-picking.

And, even though that was not the original intent of 181's creators, that's the way the Israeli's played it, and it's the fait accompli that they were able to pull off.


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> crayons, coloring books and chocolate were not exactly a priority need.
> wheelchairs could have been helpful but wheels could be put on any of several chairs or what many have done, use a skate board.  They get around amazingly fast.
> I used a office chair that had wheels and a broom handle with a rubber tip I added so I could use it like a ski poll or canoe paddle to move around.
> Yes, a wheelchair would be better to get around outside, but it also is not exactly a top necessity to supply the "starving palestinians with no light, gas, medicine, water or sewage" as was claimed.
> anyone with a little DIY skills could take old bike wheels, with or without tubes and put them on an axial and attach those as back wheels to a chair.  Old pram wheels or wheel barrow wheels could be use as well.
> For smaller people or children, those folding umbrella strollers can carry a lot of weight and can be push across a lot of different terrains.  You can put a folding or removable wooden/metal seat and adapt it for a larger teen size.


Those pictures were fakes and nothing more than damage control by the Israeli regime.




aris2chat said:


> A bit of electrical knowledge and you can put on electric motor with switch or old game paddle and/or remote control.  A little 2" computer with a tiny blue tooth and you could use your smart phone to operate the chair.


Electrical Engineering is how I've been putting food on my table and a roof over my head for the last 30 years, would you care to explain your statement in a little more detail?





aris2chat said:


> The boat was not filled with supplies and all those people were not need in gaza except as a publicity stunt, and giving IDF the finger so to speak.


_ "...those people were not in need..."?_

You watch too much Israeli TV.  

Here's the reality...



> _ *61% of the population *in the Gaza Strip, or 973,600 people, suffer from a lack of food security, defined by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) as the absence of access to sufficient, safe and nutritious food to meet their dietary needs and food preferences for an active and healthy life.
> 
> *94% of the households *report a decline in the quality of food purchased over the past year
> 
> *59% report* a decline in the amount of food consumed.
> 
> *71 percent of Gaza households *rely on humanitarian aid from the international organizations  _


All of that is a direct result of the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza.


----------



## Vigilante

Yet, the brain dead do not see this.....


----------



## amity1844

I just joined this forum because it seems to be the only US forum on the Israel/Palestine issues I want to discuss.  However, reviewing some of the topic postings, I am a little disappointed.  I really want to have a constructive discussion and I hope to find that here.  I haven't read any of the 1500+ posts this topic has generated, so just responding to the original post.  The article cited is clearly dismissive in tone, not a serious critical essay.  I hope we can consider the quality of the source before accepting it.  There is very little to no useful information in this one.  

When humanity first came out of Africa, it is likely we got to Palestine very quickly, given its location at the crossroads of the world, so predictably some of the very oldest human fossils outside of Africa itself are found in Palestine.  The land of Palestine has been settled from that time forward and ALL of those people are by definition Palestinians.  Some of you may have found an interest in the exciting new field of genetic history.  When genetic studies were done on Israeli Jews and Arab Palestinians, it was discovered that they are .... practically identical genetically, around 80% shared haplotypes.  This is because when the Romans expelled the Jews from Israel/Palestine back in the year 70, they didn't actually expel most Jews, who instead left the cities and went into the countryside, where they founded new synagogues and churches and remain to this day.... the Palestinians.  Later migrations into and out of Palestine, especially the Arabs and Crusaders, who left a lot of genetic material behind, and intermarriage of Jews with other groups during the diaspora account for the remaining 20%, but it turns out Jews and Palestinians are essentially the same people.    The land of Palestine was not a vacuum when Herzl first came up with the bright idea of settling it (I hope noone on this forum believes that!).  It has been continuously settled all along, from earliest human history.  That is who the Palestinians are.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine, including Canaanite, Phoenician, Jewish, Assyrian, Arab, European, all in one melting pot.  

If we stop believing the pat answers, rhetoric, and polemics and start serious analysis, I think we will discover this problem isn't really so difficult to solve as it is often portrayed.  If anyone wants specific sources on Palestinian history, i.e., land and people, let me know, I got a ton dating from Roman times, medieval times, and more recently.  I come bearing an olive branch and if we can't have a thoughtful discussion I will shake the dust off.


----------



## Kondor3

Vigilante said:


> Yet, the brain dead do not see this.....



Good one !!!


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> _...All of that is a direct result of the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza._


All of that is a direct result of bad choices in 1948 and 1967 and Intifada I and Intifada II and the Rocket Barrages, etc.

Time for the Loser Palestinians to pack up and leave.


----------



## amity1844

And Israel's problems are also the result of its bad choices in 1948 and 1967 and 1982 and Intifada I and Intifada II, etc.

There's no point in trying to establish "who started it."  Common sense would tell any 21st century person that no one can just walk into someone else's land and try to take over without serious resistance!  And this was going on before Israel was even established.  

Israeli artist Nissan Rilov, 1936:
"In one day, in order to start building [our homes] on this land, with bulldozers that existed then, primitive bulldozers unlike the ones that exist now, and with tractors, we destroyed the villages and kicked out all the Arabs out, and I remember something that has always struck me. It was how the children and the women threw themselves in front of the tractors and refused to leave. There was a strong resistance of the Palestinians against the destruction of their villages, and that had really touched me."


----------



## Billo_Really

amity1844 said:


> And Israel's problems are also the result of its bad choices in 1948 and 1967 and 1982 and Intifada I and Intifada II, etc.
> 
> There's no point in trying to establish "who started it."  Common sense would tell any 21st century person that no one can just walk into someone else's land and try to take over without serious resistance!  And this was going on before Israel was even established.
> 
> Israeli artist Nissan Rilov, 1936:
> "In one day, in order to start building [our homes] on this land, with bulldozers that existed then, primitive bulldozers unlike the ones that exist now, and with tractors, we destroyed the villages and kicked out all the Arabs out, and I remember something that has always struck me. It was how the children and the women threw themselves in front of the tractors and refused to leave. There was a strong resistance of the Palestinians against the destruction of their villages, and that had really touched me."


It's also worth noting that before the Zionist migration around the turn of the century, Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews lived in relative peace for generations with no major incidents of violence.

I keep telling people, you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.


*"Welcome to USMB!"*


----------



## MJB12741

Yes isn't it just awful how those Zionists in Israel bulldozed Palestinian terrorist squatter's homes filled with weapons & explosives to kill Israeli's?





amity1844 said:


> And Israel's problems are also the result of its bad choices in 1948 and 1967 and 1982 and Intifada I and Intifada II, etc.
> 
> There's no point in trying to establish "who started it."  Common sense would tell any 21st century person that no one can just walk into someone else's land and try to take over without serious resistance!  And this was going on before Israel was even established.
> 
> Israeli artist Nissan Rilov, 1936:
> "In one day, in order to start building [our homes] on this land, with bulldozers that existed then, primitive bulldozers unlike the ones that exist now, and with tractors, we destroyed the villages and kicked out all the Arabs out, and I remember something that has always struck me. It was how the children and the women threw themselves in front of the tractors and refused to leave. There was a strong resistance of the Palestinians against the destruction of their villages, and that had really touched me."


----------



## amity1844

Who are the Palestinian terrorist squatters?


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel's problems are also the result of its bad choices in 1948 and 1967 and 1982 and Intifada I and Intifada II, etc.
> 
> There's no point in trying to establish "who started it."  Common sense would tell any 21st century person that no one can just walk into someone else's land and try to take over without serious resistance!  And this was going on before Israel was even established.
> 
> Israeli artist Nissan Rilov, 1936:
> "In one day, in order to start building [our homes] on this land, with bulldozers that existed then, primitive bulldozers unlike the ones that exist now, and with tractors, we destroyed the villages and kicked out all the Arabs out, and I remember something that has always struck me. It was how the children and the women threw themselves in front of the tractors and refused to leave. There was a strong resistance of the Palestinians against the destruction of their villages, and that had really touched me."
> 
> 
> 
> It's also worth noting that before the Zionist migration around the turn of the century, Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews lived in relative peace for generations with no major incidents of violence.
> 
> I keep telling people, you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
> 
> 
> *"Welcome to USMB!"*
Click to expand...


Bullshit.

That's the propaganda and lies of Anti-Zionists and Jew haters.

Before the migration of "Zionists" the Arabs and Jews clashed and fought over the fact that they believed that Jews shouldn't be here, even if they were the natives to begin with.

Jews were the natives in Hebron, till they were expelled by the Arabs, which in their rudness, dared to call today's Jews "illegal settlers".

And people like you swallow that lie and bark like good lil puppies.

We all know better.


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Who are the Palestinian terrorist squatters?



Many. 

Those of the Negev, are a classic example.


----------



## RoccoR

Billo_Really,  _et al,_

You make this mistake quite frequently.



Billo_Really said:


> I keep telling people, you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.


*(OBSERVATION)*

World English Dictionary
*vested interest*
 n
1.	property law  an existing and disposable right to the immediate or future possession and enjoyment of property​
World English Dictionary
*human rights*
 pl n
the rights of individuals to liberty, justice, etc​
Resolution 61/295. United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
*Article 2*
Indigenous peoples and individuals are free and equal to all other peoples and individuals and have the right to be free from any kind of discrimination, in the exercise of their rights, in particular that based on their indigenous origin or identity​
*(COMMENT)*

First, you confuse the "vested Interest" indigenous population with the "human rights" in common with all people.

Second, you forget that all people have the same rights.  Longevity as a resident (indigenous people) incurs no special rights over newer residences.

While there is some truth that "you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there" --- it is not always true.  It depends on the status of the resident.  Your analogy is not quite right.  Obviously, if I move into a neighborhood and buy property, I have more of a vested interest in the neighborhood than the renters that have been there for decades.

With all other things being equal --- Everyone has the same "rights."  And in exercising these rights, have the same recognition - without regard to longevity in residence.

However, if I recently moved in and invested in the development of the land culturally, economically, socially, financially, then I might actually have a greater vested interest than a long time resident.

This requires an evaluation on a case-by-case basis.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> And Israel's problems are also the result of its bad choices in 1948 and 1967 and 1982 and Intifada I and Intifada II, etc.
> 
> There's no point in trying to establish "who started it."...


Sure there is.

There is passive resistance, and there is forceful resistance.

There is forceful resistance with a realistic prospect of success, and there is forceful resistance long past the point where the tiny amount of force that you can bring to bear, has any realistic prospect of affecting the outcome.

With the advent of Intifada I, the Palestinians crossed the line into the realm of forceful resistance under conditions in which they have no realistic prospect of such force actually affecting the outcome in a manner desirable to them.

Dumb-asses.

Then again, they have a long history of stupid decisions, so, not very surprising.



> ..._Common sense would tell any 21st century person that no one can just walk into someone else's land and try to take over without serious resistance!_...


True.

That's why the League of Nations proposed to divide Greater Old Palestine into two parts:







Why are the Arabs still squatting on Jewish land?



> ..._And this was going on before Israel was even established_...


Yes. Arabs began killing Jews, long before Israel was established, because they were growing alarmed at how much land the Jews were acquiring.



> "..._Israeli artist Nissan Rilov, 1936_..."


There are always Quislings and weaklings and suicidal types who take sides with the Other Guy rather than their own People. MEH.

===============================

So much for Newcomer Neutrality...

Anybody got a *sock* I can borrow for a *puppet* show later today? ;-)


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> You make this mistake quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep telling people, you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> World English Dictionary
> *vested interest*
>  n
> 1.	property law  an existing and disposable right to the immediate or future possession and enjoyment of property​
> World English Dictionary
> *human rights*
>  pl n
> the rights of individuals to liberty, justice, etc​
> Resolution 61/295. United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
> *Article 2*
> Indigenous peoples and individuals are free and equal to all other peoples and individuals and have the right to be free from any kind of discrimination, in the exercise of their rights, in particular that based on their indigenous origin or identity​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, you confuse the "vested Interest" indigenous population with the "human rights" in common with all people.
> 
> Second, you forget that all people have the same rights.  Longevity as a resident (indigenous people) incurs no special rights over newer residences.
> 
> While there is some truth that "you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there" --- it is not always true.  It depends on the status of the resident.  Your analogy is not quite right.  Obviously, if I move into a neighborhood and buy property, I have more of a vested interest in the neighborhood than the renters that have been there for decades.
> 
> With all other things being equal --- Everyone has the same "rights."  And in exercising these rights, have the same recognition - without regard to longevity in residence.
> 
> However, if I recently moved in and invested in the development of the land culturally, economically, socially, financially, then I might actually have a greater vested interest than a long time resident.
> 
> This requires an evaluation on a case-by-case basis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link.
http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf



> *Article 26*
> 
> 1. Indigenous peoples have the right to the *lands, territories and resources* which they have traditionally owned, occupied or otherwise used or acquired.
> 
> 2. Indigenous peoples have the *right to own, use, develop and control the lands, territories and resources *that they possess by reason of traditional ownership or other traditional occupation or use, as well as those which they have otherwise acquired.
> 
> 3. States shall give legal recognition and protection to these *lands, territories and resources. *Such recognition shall be conducted with due respect to the customs, traditions and *land tenure systems *of the indigenous peoples concerned.



If you consider Palestinians to be the indigenous population of a state called Israel, then Israel is in violation of this provision. You will also see that Israel is in violation of articles 1 through 10 and others.

Another view of Israel would be a colonial project where these rights would apply to the Palestinians.



> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
> 
> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
> 
> 4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the *integrity of their national territory *shall be respected.
> 
> 5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and *Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories *which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of *those territories,* without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
> 
> 6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the *national unity and the territorial integrity* of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their *territorial integrity.*



Note the similar rights expressed in both of these.

Then there are rights specifically for Palestine.



> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (a) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;



In any case, the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> I just joined this forum because it seems to be the only US forum on the Israel/Palestine issues I want to discuss.  However, reviewing some of the topic postings, I am a little disappointed.  I really want to have a constructive discussion and I hope to find that here.  I haven't read any of the 1500+ posts this topic has generated, so just responding to the original post.  The article cited is clearly dismissive in tone, not a serious critical essay.  I hope we can consider the quality of the source before accepting it.  There is very little to no useful information in this one.
> 
> When humanity first came out of Africa, it is likely we got to Palestine very quickly, given its location at the crossroads of the world, so predictably some of the very oldest human fossils outside of Africa itself are found in Palestine.  The land of Palestine has been settled from that time forward and ALL of those people are by definition Palestinians.  Some of you may have found an interest in the exciting new field of genetic history.  When genetic studies were done on Israeli Jews and Arab Palestinians, it was discovered that they are .... practically identical genetically, around 80% shared haplotypes.  This is because when the Romans expelled the Jews from Israel/Palestine back in the year 70, they didn't actually expel most Jews, who instead left the cities and went into the countryside, where they founded new synagogues and churches and remain to this day.... the Palestinians.  Later migrations into and out of Palestine, especially the Arabs and Crusaders, who left a lot of genetic material behind, and intermarriage of Jews with other groups during the diaspora account for the remaining 20%, but it turns out Jews and Palestinians are essentially the same people.    The land of Palestine was not a vacuum when Herzl first came up with the bright idea of settling it (I hope noone on this forum believes that!).  It has been continuously settled all along, from earliest human history.  That is who the Palestinians are.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine, including Canaanite, Phoenician, Jewish, Assyrian, Arab, European, all in one melting pot.
> 
> If we stop believing the pat answers, rhetoric, and polemics and start serious analysis, I think we will discover this problem isn't really so difficult to solve as it is often portrayed.  If anyone wants specific sources on Palestinian history, i.e., land and people, let me know, I got a ton dating from Roman times, medieval times, and more recently.  I come bearing an olive branch and if we can't have a thoughtful discussion I will shake the dust off.


Yup, sounds like a propagandist repeating the same old bullshit propaganda and trying to replace Arabs with Jews. 

Palestinians are recent 20th century invaders from neighboring Arab lands. The name Palestinian was referred to Jews of the region only, until Arafat the terrorist thief hijacked it in 1967. If anything, they are genetically and culturally identical to their neighboring Arab brethren, in fact THEY ARE THE SAME.  To say that Palestinians and Jews are the same is as stupid, false, and meaningless as saying the ENTIRE ARAB WORLD and Jews are the same.


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> You make this mistake quite frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep telling people, you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> World English Dictionary
> *vested interest*
>  n
> 1.	property law  an existing and disposable right to the immediate or future possession and enjoyment of property​
> World English Dictionary
> *human rights*
>  pl n
> the rights of individuals to liberty, justice, etc​
> Resolution 61/295. United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
> *Article 2*
> Indigenous peoples and individuals are free and equal to all other peoples and individuals and have the right to be free from any kind of discrimination, in the exercise of their rights, in particular that based on their indigenous origin or identity​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, you confuse the "vested Interest" indigenous population with the "human rights" in common with all people.
> 
> Second, you forget that all people have the same rights.  Longevity as a resident (indigenous people) incurs no special rights over newer residences.
> 
> While there is some truth that "you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there" --- it is not always true.  It depends on the status of the resident.  Your analogy is not quite right.  Obviously, if I move into a neighborhood and buy property, I have more of a vested interest in the neighborhood than the renters that have been there for decades.
> 
> With all other things being equal --- Everyone has the same "rights."  And in exercising these rights, have the same recognition - without regard to longevity in residence.
> 
> However, if I recently moved in and invested in the development of the land culturally, economically, socially, financially, then I might actually have a greater vested interest than a long time resident.
> 
> This requires an evaluation on a case-by-case basis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> If you consider Palestinians to be the indigenous population of a state called Israel, then Israel is in violation of this provision. You will also see that Israel is in violation of articles 1 through 10 and others.
> 
> Another view of Israel would be a colonial project where these rights would apply to the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
> 
> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
> 
> 4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the *integrity of their national territory *shall be respected.
> 
> 5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and *Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories *which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of *those territories,* without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
> 
> 6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the *national unity and the territorial integrity* of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their *territorial integrity.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Note the similar rights expressed in both of these.
> 
> Then there are rights specifically for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (a) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In any case, the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground.
Click to expand...


Palestinians left because they did not want to be part of an Israeli state, among other reason.  Some applied for reunification programs, about 1000 a year, till Oslo, returned to Israel and became citizens.
Israel has on many talks offered to take in 100,000 of the original refugees, over a period of time.  Those born out side of Israel or that were in any way part of terrorism or violence against Israel would be be allowed.  The rest of the palestinians would have to be taken in by other countries or find a place in a state of palestine when fully establish.

Israel had legal and moral right to exist as well.............and a right to pray at the wall or on the mount.  Jews should have a right to buy land and live or establish a business in a palestinian state, or anywhere else.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Oh, brother!



P F Tinmore said:


> In any case, the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground.


*(COMMENT)*

If there is one piece of ground the Arab-Palestinian will unlikely ever hold sovereignty over it the legal and moral high ground.

First, let me say that the Israelis (Jewish State of Israel) has not always been in the "right" - and hasn't always - acted in good faith - and hasn't always exhibited the qualities of an exemplary nation.  I have many objections to the way they have conducted themselves during the course of the continuing struggle in the Middle East.

OK, having said that --- you could mark Israel's missteps, mistakes, and out-right dumb moves on a Whiteboard with a black, fine tip, Expo Marker.  There might be quite a few marks.  On the other hand, and by way of comparison, to do the same for the Arab and Arab-Palestinians, you'd need run the Whiteboard down to the closest Earl Scheib Paint & Body Store Location and send the whole Whiteboard in for a coating of nanotech-based Blacker-than-Black.  A paint roller just wouldn't do it justice.



> 13. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man, woman and child.*​
> I beg to remain, etc.
> /s/ Isa Nakhleh
> Representative of the
> Arab Higher Committee​



Remembering:

_*States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,*_​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> ..._the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground._


The Palestinians lost any scrap of high moral ground that they once _might_ have held, the very moment that they killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Games, or pushed that old man in the wheelchair overboard on the Achille Lauro, or sent suicide bombers into Israel to kill Jewish civilians on buses and at restaurants.

The bottom-feeding, under-performing, scum-sucking Palestinian Hamas and Fatah types, holding the high moral ground?

Bullshit.


----------



## MJB12741

Those Zionists sure blew it for themselves over any moral rights issue for their treatment of the Palestinians.  Peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the squatters can remein in Israel to kill Israeli's.  Disgusting.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## MJB12741

Whoa now!  Let us not condemn Yassar Arafat.  He was one the world's all time greatest leaders.  He took his Palestinians from the toilet to the sewer, got them massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers, embezzeled their money, then died from AIDS leaving his Palestinians living in ignorance & poverty with no hope for a Palestinian State.  And that is truly worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize.






Vigilante said:


>


----------



## Kondor3

Not to mention being one scuzzy, _ugly_ mutherphukker...



MJB12741 said:


> Whoa now!  Let us not condemn Yassar Arafat.  He was one the world's all time greatest leaders.  He took his Palestinians from the toilet to the sewer, got them massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers, embezzeled their money, then died from AIDS leaving his Palestinians living in ignorance & poverty with no hope for a Palestinian State.  And that is truly worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize.
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante

MJB12741 said:


> Whoa now! Let us not condemn Yassar Arafat. He was one the world's all time greatest leaders. He took his Palestinians from the toilet to the sewer, got them massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers, embezzeled their money, then died from AIDS leaving his Palestinians living in ignorance & poverty with no hope for a Palestinian State. *And that is truly worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize.[/]
> 
> *


*[/QUOTE]

Well, seems little children know about that "PEACE PRIZE"!




*


----------



## MJB12741

As a gesture of love & peace, let us all join together in wishing Hamas the very best of success in filling Arafat's shoes.  










Vigilante said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa now! Let us not condemn Yassar Arafat. He was one the world's all time greatest leaders. He took his Palestinians from the toilet to the sewer, got them massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers, embezzeled their money, then died from AIDS leaving his Palestinians living in ignorance & poverty with no hope for a Palestinian State. *And that is truly worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize.[/]
> 
> *
Click to expand...

*

Well, seems little children know about that "PEACE PRIZE"!







[/QUOTE]*


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> That's the propaganda and lies of Anti-Zionists and Jew haters.
> 
> Before the migration of "Zionists" the Arabs and Jews clashed and fought over the fact that they believed that Jews shouldn't be here, even if they were the natives to begin with.
> 
> Jews were the natives in Hebron, till they were expelled by the Arabs, which in their rudness, dared to call today's Jews "illegal settlers".
> 
> And people like you swallow that lie and bark like good lil puppies.
> 
> We all know better.


According to official UN records, you're a little off!


> _During the period of the Mandate, the Zionist Organization worked to secure the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. *The indigenous people of Palestine, whose forefathers had inhabited the land for virtually the two preceding millennia felt this design to be a violation of their natural and inalienable rights.* They also viewed it as an infringement of assurances of independence given by the Allied Powers to Arab leaders in return for their support during the war. The result was mounting resistance to the Mandate by Palestinian Arabs, followed by resort to violence by the Jewish community as the Second World War drew to a close._


Do you know what "indigenous" means?

It means your propaganda rap is full of shit!


BTW, if there was all that violence you claim was going on, you shouldn't have too much trouble to pony up some evidence of that.  So where is it?  Until you do, you're the only one spewing propaganda.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> That's the propaganda and lies of Anti-Zionists and Jew haters.
> 
> Before the migration of "Zionists" the Arabs and Jews clashed and fought over the fact that they believed that Jews shouldn't be here, even if they were the natives to begin with.
> 
> Jews were the natives in Hebron, till they were expelled by the Arabs, which in their rudness, dared to call today's Jews "illegal settlers".
> 
> And people like you swallow that lie and bark like good lil puppies.
> 
> We all know better.
> 
> 
> 
> According to official UN records, you're a little off!
> 
> 
> 
> _During the period of the Mandate, the Zionist Organization worked to secure the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. *The indigenous people of Palestine, whose forefathers had inhabited the land for virtually the two preceding millennia felt this design to be a violation of their natural and inalienable rights.* They also viewed it as an infringement of assurances of independence given by the Allied Powers to Arab leaders in return for their support during the war. The result was mounting resistance to the Mandate by Palestinian Arabs, followed by resort to violence by the Jewish community as the Second World War drew to a close._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you know what "indigenous" means?
> 
> It means your propaganda rap is full of shit!
> 
> 
> BTW, if there was all that violence you claim was going on, you shouldn't have too much trouble to pony up some evidence of that.  So where is it?  Until you do, you're the only one spewing propaganda.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  That's like a 100 page document which he managed to find the only pro Arab version in it. 

Did you know the population of Jerusalem from the mid 1800's to early 1900's was majority Jews?  And then came the Arab invaders.  

There's your "indigenous" for you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Oh, brother!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If there is one piece of ground the Arab-Palestinian will unlikely ever hold sovereignty over it the legal and moral high ground.
> 
> First, let me say that the Israelis (Jewish State of Israel) has not always been in the "right" - and hasn't always - acted in good faith - and hasn't always exhibited the qualities of an exemplary nation.  I have many objections to the way they have conducted themselves during the course of the continuing struggle in the Middle East.
> 
> OK, having said that --- you could mark Israel's missteps, mistakes, and out-right dumb moves on a Whiteboard with a black, fine tip, Expo Marker.  There might be quite a few marks.  On the other hand, and by way of comparison, to do the same for the Arab and Arab-Palestinians, you'd need run the Whiteboard down to the closest Earl Scheib Paint & Body Store Location and send the whole Whiteboard in for a coating of nanotech-based Blacker-than-Black.  A paint roller just wouldn't do it justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man, woman and child.*​
> I beg to remain, etc.
> /s/ Isa Nakhleh
> Representative of the
> Arab Higher Committee​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remembering:
> 
> _*States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,*_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Of course you did not address the issues that I posted to base my conclusion.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Oh, brother!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If there is one piece of ground the Arab-Palestinian will unlikely ever hold sovereignty over it the legal and moral high ground.
> 
> First, let me say that the Israelis (Jewish State of Israel) has not always been in the "right" - and hasn't always - acted in good faith - and hasn't always exhibited the qualities of an exemplary nation.  I have many objections to the way they have conducted themselves during the course of the continuing struggle in the Middle East.
> 
> OK, having said that --- you could mark Israel's missteps, mistakes, and out-right dumb moves on a Whiteboard with a black, fine tip, Expo Marker.  There might be quite a few marks.  On the other hand, and by way of comparison, to do the same for the Arab and Arab-Palestinians, you'd need run the Whiteboard down to the closest Earl Scheib Paint & Body Store Location and send the whole Whiteboard in for a coating of nanotech-based Blacker-than-Black.  A paint roller just wouldn't do it justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man, woman and child.*​
> I beg to remain, etc.
> /s/ Isa Nakhleh
> Representative of the
> Arab Higher Committee​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remembering:
> 
> _*States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,*_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course you did not address the issues that I posted to base my conclusion.
Click to expand...


Of course you always say this when you have no argument.
BTW, I think Rocco addressed your post quite well.


----------



## MJB12741

*Feel the Palestinian pride!

Child suicide bombers in the Israeli?Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## MJB12741

Gosh I wonder how the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians feel about this?




Vigilante said:


>


----------



## aris2chat

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..._the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground._
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians lost any scrap of high moral ground that they once _might_ have held, the very moment that they killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Games, or pushed that old man in the wheelchair overboard on the Achille Lauro, or sent suicide bombers into Israel to kill Jewish civilians on buses and at restaurants.
> 
> The bottom-feeding, under-performing, scum-sucking Palestinian Hamas and Fatah types, holding the high moral ground?
> 
> Bullshit.
Click to expand...


The more I worked with them and spent time in the camps and saw how the disinformation imagery and rhetoric abound.  They don't want to listen the "other" truths or give the width of a strand of hair in the way of compromise.
Like tel zaatar; any weakness, surrender, compromise or cooperation with the other side means being shot in the back or worse.
I was so horrified and disheartened after sabra and shatila, but not as much at what the shabab did, but at what the palestinians did to their own family or those trying to get out of the camps.  The sights and smells trying sickened me.  I had gotten to know and like many of the victims.
Palestinians turned many of my view away and later targeted me for not spouting their "line".  I wouldn't play the game the way they wanted me to.


----------



## aris2chat

Vigilante said:


>



cute


----------



## amity1844

Okay, so let's do an analogy here.  After a couple of hundred years of slavery, the unfortunate and unwilling African-Americans of Virginia staged a good sized slave rebellion during which they killed quite a few unarmed plantation owners, their wives, and kids, really horribly, chopped them with hoes, etc.  Would you tell me that the slaves lost their clear moral high ground with regard to slavery as a result of their actions during the rebellion?  Did their actions then justify continued slavery?


----------



## MJB12741

Good point.  You wouldn't play the game they wanted you to.  And either will Israel.  




QUOTE=aris2chat;9201835]





Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..._the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground._
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians lost any scrap of high moral ground that they once _might_ have held, the very moment that they killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Games, or pushed that old man in the wheelchair overboard on the Achille Lauro, or sent suicide bombers into Israel to kill Jewish civilians on buses and at restaurants.
> 
> The bottom-feeding, under-performing, scum-sucking Palestinian Hamas and Fatah types, holding the high moral ground?
> 
> Bullshit.
Click to expand...


The more I worked with them and spent time in the camps and saw how the disinformation imagery and rhetoric abound.  They don't want to listen the "other" truths or give the width of a strand of hair in the way of compromise.
Like tel zaatar; any weakness, surrender, compromise or cooperation with the other side means being shot in the back or worse.
I was so horrified and disheartened after sabra and shatila, but not as much at what the shabab did, but at what the palestinians did to their own family or those trying to get out of the camps.  The sights and smells trying sickened me.  I had gotten to know and like many of the victims.
Palestinians turned many of my view away and later targeted me for not spouting their "line".  I wouldn't play the game the way they wanted me to.[/QUOTE]


----------



## MJB12741

So here we are with over 1600 replies & still no answer to the question Who Are The Palestinians?  Some say with a valid argument they are mostly just squatters on Israel's ancient land for generations now with no deeds to the stolen land throughout any of their family's genetic history.  And that among the indigenous Palestinians were Jews but not a single Muslim Palestinian as there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century AD.

Others say "Israel is stealing Palestinian land?  Is this to mean that Israel is stealing their own land or if Israel is stealing Muslim Palestinian land when did the land of the Israelites since antiquity become this referenced Palestinian land that they claim Israel is now stealing?  Will someone please enlighten us?


----------



## aris2chat

amity1844 said:


> Okay, so let's do an analogy here.  After a couple of hundred years of slavery, the unfortunate and unwilling African-Americans of Virginia staged a good sized slave rebellion during which they killed quite a few unarmed plantation owners, their wives, and kids, really horribly, chopped them with hoes, etc.  Would you tell me that the slaves lost their clear moral high ground with regard to slavery as a result of their actions during the rebellion?  Did their actions then justify continued slavery?



If you want to talk about slavery then start with the arab world, the capture and trade of slaves.  Why not speak of the slave revolt, lets talk about Iraq.  You want to compare treatment of slaves?  Let's talk about child slavery and what they go through as camel jockeys, metal worker, carpet weavers or sex slave.  How about Saudi Arabia?

If you want to make comparisons, then use like items, not separated so much by time, distance and culture.  The construction of civilization and most large nation was built by the labor of slaves.  Considering the prevalence of famine, disease, tribal warfare or the risk of hunting, it might be that slaves lived better than others of their tribe in Africa.  There are good and bad slave owners no matter the place or time.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Okay, so let's do an analogy here.  After a couple of hundred years of slavery, the unfortunate and unwilling African-Americans of Virginia staged a good sized slave rebellion during which they killed quite a few unarmed plantation owners, their wives, and kids, really horribly, chopped them with hoes, etc.  Would you tell me that the slaves lost their clear moral high ground with regard to slavery as a result of their actions during the rebellion?  Did their actions then justify continued slavery?



You compare that to the Israeli Palestinian conflict? Israel see this as a territorial issue. The Palestinians see it as a religious issue. For them, Allah has condemned the Jews and compared them to pigs and apes. The Jews having an independent state in the middle of an Islamic-ruled area is abomination.

That's the root of the problem.

Hardly the same problem.

"*The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees, and the stones and trees will say 'O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.'"*.Sahih Muslim, 41:6985


----------



## P F Tinmore

69 Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​

83 The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
84 To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel


----------



## MJB12741

Thank you Tinmore for proving my point that there were no legally official Muslim Palestinians on the land they stole until 1925.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel






P F Tinmore said:


> 69 Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​
> 
> 83 The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> 84 To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).
> 
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel


----------



## Billo_Really

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really,  _et al,_
> 
> You make this mistake quite frequently.
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> World English Dictionary
> *vested interest*
>  n
> 1.	property law  an existing and disposable right to the immediate or future possession and enjoyment of property​
> World English Dictionary
> *human rights*
>  pl n
> the rights of individuals to liberty, justice, etc​
> Resolution 61/295. United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
> *Article 2*
> Indigenous peoples and individuals are free and equal to all other peoples and individuals and have the right to be free from any kind of discrimination, in the exercise of their rights, in particular that based on their indigenous origin or identity​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, you confuse the "vested Interest" indigenous population with the "human rights" in common with all people.
> 
> Second, you forget that all people have the same rights.  Longevity as a resident (indigenous people) incurs no special rights over newer residences.
> 
> While there is some truth that "you cannot move into a new neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there" --- it is not always true.  It depends on the status of the resident.  Your analogy is not quite right.  Obviously, if I move into a neighborhood and buy property, I have more of a vested interest in the neighborhood than the renters that have been there for decades.
> 
> With all other things being equal --- Everyone has the same "rights."  And in exercising these rights, have the same recognition - without regard to longevity in residence.
> 
> However, if I recently moved in and invested in the development of the land culturally, economically, socially, financially, then I might actually have a greater vested interest than a long time resident.
> 
> This requires an evaluation on a case-by-case basis.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.
> http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> If you consider Palestinians to be the indigenous population of a state called Israel, then Israel is in violation of this provision. You will also see that Israel is in violation of articles 1 through 10 and others.
> 
> Another view of Israel would be a colonial project where these rights would apply to the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> Note the similar rights expressed in both of these.
> 
> Then there are rights specifically for Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
> 
> (a) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> 3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In any case, the Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians left because they did not want to be part of an Israeli state, among other reason.  Some applied for reunification programs, about 1000 a year, till Oslo, returned to Israel and became citizens.
> Israel has on many talks offered to take in 100,000 of the original refugees, over a period of time.  Those born out side of Israel or that were in any way part of terrorism or violence against Israel would be be allowed.  The rest of the palestinians would have to be taken in by other countries or find a place in a state of palestine when fully establish.
> 
> Israel had legal and moral right to exist as well.............and a right to pray at the wall or on the mount.  Jews should have a right to buy land and live or establish a business in a palestinian state, or anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Palestinian's left because of jewish terrorism against them.

As far as land rights, if you moved into a new neighborhood, you DO NOT have the right to someone else's property. And in the case where each party has no clear title to the land, the one who recently moved into the area, has less rights than the one who has been "homesteading" that land for centuries.


----------



## amity1844

The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is 
"those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.  They are largely Sunni Muslim, but 20 - 30% (depending on location) were Christian, and others were Druze, Bahai, Armenians, indigenous Jews, Circassians, etc.  All these groups are Palestinian, most but not all were Arab.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

Hee are some sources on the topics that are being discussed here:

The Palestinian right of return - legal and moral basis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

And here are a couple of articles on why they left:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

And last and saddest to me, the very many villages, some going back to Bible times and earlier, that were destroyed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...epopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus

You can click on links to read the story of each individual village.  These stories are compiled from not only Palestinians who were present, but also the stories of members of Haganah, Irgun, etc. about their own roles in each case.  They don't deny what they did.  And these villagers had very few arms.  Virtually unamed and, as you will read, in many cases totally non combatant.  

In the case of Deir Yassin, a village on the outskirts of Jerusalem, the Arab population had agreed with the neighboring Jewish town to support and protect each other, a mutual defense pact.  So the villagers refused to allow Arab militias into the town to protect them, believing their solidarity with their Jewish neighbors would prevent them behind harmed.  When the attack came, not a shot was fired by the villagers in resistance.  The Jews from the neighboring town tried to honor their agreement and ran over, running through the streets screaming "No! No!  Stop!  Don't kill them!" ...but to no avail.   Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach units were responsible for the massacre.  Afterward the survivors were paraded through streets of Jerusalem and elsewhere in trucks for several days, telling Arabs to leave before the same fate would befall them.  No one really knows what happened to the "survivors" so it is possible that they were executed after being driven around, but I don't think there is any proof of that yet.  At any rate, no one has turned up and said "I survived the post-Deir Yassin truck ride."  It seems fitting somehow that the buildings are now part of an Israeli insane asylum.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is
> "those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.



I think I will go with what a traveler to the area observed hundreds of years ago.  After all, we have the prerogative to believe whatever we want to believe.  Whatever, floats our boat.  

A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians

A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians | Palestine-Israel Conflict


----------



## MJB12741

Among the indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS!  Not a single theiving Muslim Palestinian among them until after the 7th cnentury AD.






amity1844 said:


> The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is
> "those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.  They are largely Sunni Muslim, but 20 - 30% (depending on location) were Christian, and others were Druze, Bahai, Armenians, indigenous Jews, Circassians, etc.  All these groups are Palestinian, most but not all were Arab.
> 
> Hee are some sources:
> 
> The Palestinian right of return - legal and moral basis:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
> 
> And here are a couple of articles on why they left:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
> 
> And last and saddest to me, the many villages, some going back to Bible times and earlier, that were destroyed:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...epopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
> 
> You can click on links to read the story of each individual village.  These stories are compiled from not only Palestinians who were present, but also the stories of members of Haganah, Irgun, etc. about their own roles in each case.  They don't deny what they did.  And these villagers had very few arms.  Virtually unamed and, as you will read, in many cases totally non combatant.
> 
> In the case of Deir Yassin, a village on the outskirts of Jerusalem, the Arab population had agreed with the neighboring Jewish town to support and protect each other.  The villagers refuse to allow Arab militias into the town to protect them, belieiving their solidarity with their Jewish neighbors would prevent them behind harmed.  So when the attack came, not a shot was fired by the villagers in resistance.  The Jews from the neighboring town tried to honor their agreement and ran over, running through the streets screaming "No! No!  Don't kill them!"  but to no avail.   Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach units were responsible for the massacre.  Afterward the survivors were paraded through streets of Jerusalem and elsewhere in trucks for several days, telling Arabs to leave before the same fate would befall them.  No one really knows what happened to the "survivors" so it is possible that they were executed after being driven around, but I don't think there is any proof of that yet.  At any rate, no one has turned up and said "I survived the post-Deir Yassin truck ride."


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is
> "those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.  They are largely Sunni Muslim, but 20 - 30% (depending on location) were Christian, and others were Druze, Bahai, Armenians, indigenous Jews, Circassians, etc.  All these groups are Palestinian, most but not all were Arab.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people
> 
> Hee are some sources on the topics that are being discussed here:
> 
> The Palestinian right of return - legal and moral basis:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
> 
> And here are a couple of articles on why they left:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
> 
> And last and saddest to me, the very many villages, some going back to Bible times and earlier, that were destroyed:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...epopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
> 
> You can click on links to read the story of each individual village.  These stories are compiled from not only Palestinians who were present, but also the stories of members of Haganah, Irgun, etc. about their own roles in each case.  They don't deny what they did.  And these villagers had very few arms.  Virtually unamed and, as you will read, in many cases totally non combatant.
> 
> In the case of Deir Yassin, a village on the outskirts of Jerusalem, the Arab population had agreed with the neighboring Jewish town to support and protect each other, a mutual defense pact.  So the villagers refused to allow Arab militias into the town to protect them, believing their solidarity with their Jewish neighbors would prevent them behind harmed.  When the attack came, not a shot was fired by the villagers in resistance.  The Jews from the neighboring town tried to honor their agreement and ran over, running through the streets screaming "No! No!  Stop!  Don't kill them!" ...but to no avail.   Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach units were responsible for the massacre.  Afterward the survivors were paraded through streets of Jerusalem and elsewhere in trucks for several days, telling Arabs to leave before the same fate would befall them.  No one really knows what happened to the "survivors" so it is possible that they were executed after being driven around, but I don't think there is any proof of that yet.  At any rate, no one has turned up and said "I survived the post-Deir Yassin truck ride."  It seems fitting somehow that the buildings are now part of an Israeli insane asylum.



The "Palestinians" of today are a small group out of the "Palestinians" of that day. Go back to the 1800's and see how many of the original "Palestinians" were Jews. The Palestinians arriving, squatting, in Israel don't have any more rights over the land than the Jews who inhebited and brought their families to Israel.

Therefor, what you call today "Palestine" is a hoax invented and planted by the Arab clans who want the Jews in the sea.


----------



## amity1844

Sorry, that is just not right.  Palestinians were never squatters.  The Arab invasions of the 7th century did not result in much population transfer at all, just the arrival of a new language and culture.  They are as I said.  Genetics has proved this very simply and straighforward, so the debate is really at an end.  I saw a series of videos on You Tube, a guy in Israel will go around and interview members of whatever group and ask them whatever question you want him to ask.  It is really fascinating.  He asked Israeli Jews if they believed Palestinians were "from here" and virtually every one said "yes."  How could they deny it? 

The Jewish community in Palestine was sometimes tiny, sometimes quite large, depending on what was going on in Europe.  During times of pogroms, Spanish Inquisition, etc., an emigration would take place to Palestine.  There was very little way for anyone to make a living in Palestine under the Ottomans, the Palestinians had land to work and were still pretty hungry.  The Jews there were very impoverished and largely dependent on charity income from the Diaspora.  They did not own agricultural land.  There were mainly religious Jews who spent their days praying, almost like a monastic community.  

Jewish history for the last 2000 years is truly interesting.  So many good books out there I don't really need to recommend anything.


----------



## Sally

Lipush said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is
> "those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.  They are largely Sunni Muslim, but 20 - 30% (depending on location) were Christian, and others were Druze, Bahai, Armenians, indigenous Jews, Circassians, etc.  All these groups are Palestinian, most but not all were Arab.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people
> 
> Hee are some sources on the topics that are being discussed here:
> 
> The Palestinian right of return - legal and moral basis:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
> 
> And here are a couple of articles on why they left:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
> 
> And last and saddest to me, the very many villages, some going back to Bible times and earlier, that were destroyed:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...epopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
> 
> You can click on links to read the story of each individual village.  These stories are compiled from not only Palestinians who were present, but also the stories of members of Haganah, Irgun, etc. about their own roles in each case.  They don't deny what they did.  And these villagers had very few arms.  Virtually unamed and, as you will read, in many cases totally non combatant.
> 
> In the case of Deir Yassin, a village on the outskirts of Jerusalem, the Arab population had agreed with the neighboring Jewish town to support and protect each other, a mutual defense pact.  So the villagers refused to allow Arab militias into the town to protect them, believing their solidarity with their Jewish neighbors would prevent them behind harmed.  When the attack came, not a shot was fired by the villagers in resistance.  The Jews from the neighboring town tried to honor their agreement and ran over, running through the streets screaming "No! No!  Stop!  Don't kill them!" ...but to no avail.   Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach units were responsible for the massacre.  Afterward the survivors were paraded through streets of Jerusalem and elsewhere in trucks for several days, telling Arabs to leave before the same fate would befall them.  No one really knows what happened to the "survivors" so it is possible that they were executed after being driven around, but I don't think there is any proof of that yet.  At any rate, no one has turned up and said "I survived the post-Deir Yassin truck ride."  It seems fitting somehow that the buildings are now part of an Israeli insane asylum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "Palestinians" of today are a small group out of the "Palestinians" of that day. Go back to the 1800's and see how many of the original "Palestinians" were Jews. The Palestinians arriving, squatting, in Israel don't have any more rights over the land than the Jews who inhebited and brought their families to Israel.
> 
> Therefor, what you call today "Palestine" is a hoax invented and planted by the Arab clans who want the Jews in the sea.
Click to expand...


As you can see, Lipush, we are getting the same song and dance that has appeared to many times on this particular forum.  It's too bad we couldn't find someone who manned the Palestine Booth at the World's Fair in 1940 so that that person could tell this forum why it was only Jews who manned that booth.  As you realize, the ones giving the same song and dance care nothing about the people in the  either in the rest of Middle East or the rest of the world who are really suffering much worse than these so-called Palestinians are supposed to be suffering.  If the Jews are not involved, they just don't care about these other groups.


----------



## MJB12741

I'm still waiting for someone to educate me as to when Israel's land since antiquity became this "Palestinian land" that they say Israel is stealing?


----------



## amity1844

Sally said:


> I think I will go with what a traveler to the area observed hundreds of years ago.  After all, we have the prerogative to believe whatever we want to believe.  Whatever, floats our boat.
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians
> 
> A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695: No sign of Arabian names or Palestinians | Palestine-Israel Conflict



Those aren't Arab names?  Look you can't just "think you will go with" a particular source.  There are literally _thousands_, if not tens of thousands, of sources on Palestine.  They described the people, drew the people, detailed their culture, etc.  

I think this line of argument relies on the argument that everyone should remain and/or go back to wherever they were 2000 years ago.  I am of almost totally British stock.  We had genetics done, and we turned out to be almost half Scandinavian!  This of course is due to the Viking depradations of the coast of Britain.  They left a lot of genetic material behind unfortunately....  But the largest group represented in my genes is the Celts.  2000 years ago they were in central Europe.  Should I go back to Austria, take land and depopulate the countryside to make room for "my people" because the current inhabitants are "squatters?"    Hardly!


----------



## amity1844

MJB12741 said:


> Among the indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS!  Not a single theiving Muslim Palestinian among them until after the 7th cnentury AD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is
> "those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.  They are largely Sunni Muslim, but 20 - 30% (depending on location) were Christian, and others were Druze, Bahai, Armenians, indigenous Jews, Circassians, etc.  All these groups are Palestinian, most but not all were Arab.
> 
> Hee are some sources:
> 
> The Palestinian right of return - legal and moral basis:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
> 
> And here are a couple of articles on why they left:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
> 
> And last and saddest to me, the many villages, some going back to Bible times and earlier, that were destroyed:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...epopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
> 
> You can click on links to read the story of each individual village.  These stories are compiled from not only Palestinians who were present, but also the stories of members of Haganah, Irgun, etc. about their own roles in each case.  They don't deny what they did.  And these villagers had very few arms.  Virtually unamed and, as you will read, in many cases totally non combatant.
> 
> In the case of Deir Yassin, a village on the outskirts of Jerusalem, the Arab population had agreed with the neighboring Jewish town to support and protect each other.  The villagers refuse to allow Arab militias into the town to protect them, belieiving their solidarity with their Jewish neighbors would prevent them behind harmed.  So when the attack came, not a shot was fired by the villagers in resistance.  The Jews from the neighboring town tried to honor their agreement and ran over, running through the streets screaming "No! No!  Don't kill them!"  but to no avail.   Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach units were responsible for the massacre.  Afterward the survivors were paraded through streets of Jerusalem and elsewhere in trucks for several days, telling Arabs to leave before the same fate would befall them.  No one really knows what happened to the "survivors" so it is possible that they were executed after being driven around, but I don't think there is any proof of that yet.  At any rate, no one has turned up and said "I survived the post-Deir Yassin truck ride."
Click to expand...


I'll excuse your silly low brow epipthets, but tell you that you are exactly right otherwise.  Here is the chain of events as best I understand it:

The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, depopulated the cities, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc.  Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.  

The synagogue tradition was developed, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted.  By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority, descended from the Jewish population.    

At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, a new language and a new culture that mixed in with the old, but no wholesale migration took place.  The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway and couldn't have staged a large migration.  

Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc.  To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians.  

But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout.  Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times.  And Palestinians are about 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times.  By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times.  So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are?  No, I don't think that is the point.  The lesson is about demographics and migration.  

And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted.   These were true "Palestinian Jews."   The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact, still practicing a very old form of Judaism that existed before the Babylonian exile.

And this is what genetics has now proven.  There is no place for other theories at this point.

It is interesting to see the continuity.  Someone made the point that the same patterns that appear on Palestinian women's embroidered dresses are seen in Canaanite handcrafts.  All over you will recognize the place names of the Bible.  Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine, became Kafr Kana, etc.  Most of the Christian traditions native to the Levant and Palestine .... Maronite, Syriac, etc. .... use Aramaic as their religious language.  It was the language spoken by Christ.


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Sorry, that is just not right.  Palestinians were never squatters.  The Arab invasions of the 7th century did not result in much population transfer at all, just the arrival of a new language and culture.  They are as I said.  Genetics has proved this very simply and straighforward, so the debate is really at an end.  I saw a series of videos on You Tube, a guy in Israel will go around and interview members of whatever group and ask them whatever question you want him to ask.  It is really fascinating.  He asked Israeli Jews if they believed Palestinians were "from here" and virtually every one said "yes."  How could they deny it?
> 
> The Jewish community in Palestine was sometimes tiny, sometimes quite large, depending on what was going on in Europe.  During times of pogroms, Spanish Inquisition, etc., an emigration would take place to Palestine.  There was very little way for anyone to make a living in Palestine under the Ottomans, the Palestinians had land to work and were still pretty hungry.  The Jews there were very impoverished and largely dependent on charity income from the Diaspora.  They did not own agricultural land.  There were mainly religious Jews who spent their days praying, almost like a monastic community.
> 
> Jewish history for the last 2000 years is truly interesting.  So many good books out there I don't really need to recommend anything.



They were from "here" after they arrived "here". Read the book of Mark Twain about Israel, he didn't see the same "Palestinians" as you claim existed.

Jews were natives in Hebron until the "Palestinians" kicked them out then decided suddenly they are the natives themselves. Under 'Palestinian' villages in the north there were discovered Jewish graveyards. In the south the diggins showed the foundings of Jewish property.

The Jews of the Aliyah were owners of agricultural land, my own family among them. I don't know what history is that you think you know, but it doesn't go hand in hand with facts.


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Among the indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS!  Not a single theiving Muslim Palestinian among them until after the 7th cnentury AD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is
> "those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.  They are largely Sunni Muslim, but 20 - 30% (depending on location) were Christian, and others were Druze, Bahai, Armenians, indigenous Jews, Circassians, etc.  All these groups are Palestinian, most but not all were Arab.
> 
> Hee are some sources:
> 
> The Palestinian right of return - legal and moral basis:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
> 
> And here are a couple of articles on why they left:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
> 
> And last and saddest to me, the many villages, some going back to Bible times and earlier, that were destroyed:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...epopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
> 
> You can click on links to read the story of each individual village.  These stories are compiled from not only Palestinians who were present, but also the stories of members of Haganah, Irgun, etc. about their own roles in each case.  They don't deny what they did.  And these villagers had very few arms.  Virtually unamed and, as you will read, in many cases totally non combatant.
> 
> In the case of Deir Yassin, a village on the outskirts of Jerusalem, the Arab population had agreed with the neighboring Jewish town to support and protect each other.  The villagers refuse to allow Arab militias into the town to protect them, belieiving their solidarity with their Jewish neighbors would prevent them behind harmed.  So when the attack came, not a shot was fired by the villagers in resistance.  The Jews from the neighboring town tried to honor their agreement and ran over, running through the streets screaming "No! No!  Don't kill them!"  but to no avail.   Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach units were responsible for the massacre.  Afterward the survivors were paraded through streets of Jerusalem and elsewhere in trucks for several days, telling Arabs to leave before the same fate would befall them.  No one really knows what happened to the "survivors" so it is possible that they were executed after being driven around, but I don't think there is any proof of that yet.  At any rate, no one has turned up and said "I survived the post-Deir Yassin truck ride."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll excuse your silly low brow epipthets, but tell you that you are exactly right otherwise.  Here is the chain of events as best I understand it.  The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, depopulated the cities, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc.  Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.  The synagogue tradition was developed, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted.  By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority.  At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, but no wholesale migration took place.  The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway.  Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc.  To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians.  But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout.  Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times.  And Palestinians are about 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times.  By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times.  So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are?  No, I don't think that is the point.  The lesson is about demographics and migration.
> 
> And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted.   These were true "Palestinian Jews."   The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact.
> 
> And this is what genetics has now proven.  There is no room for other theories at this point.
Click to expand...


How can they call themselves "natives" when their own identity is called "Palestine". do you know the meaning of the word?


----------



## amity1844

I don't know about Hebron and if you have a source, a GOOD source, I will read it.  

I am neither a historian or a geneticist, but what I am saying here is now the accepted version.  The Palestinians are very much descended from the Jews who were left behind.  I'm sure you knew those Jews existed, that they weren't all taken to Rome but stayed there and continued to resist, but didn't you wonder what became of them after the Roman empire fell?  Genetics has now confirmed this.

And no, I don't know the original meaning of the word "Palestine."  I know it was the name bestowed on the province during roman rimes.  I have heard it comes from "Philistine" but I have also heard it doesn't.  Don't know the linguist's view.  But I don't see why that matters too much.  We'll call it Rosebud if you want.  I was having a discussion with a so-called Israeli Arab once.  She was saying how she feels Arabs sometimes view them as possible collaborators and therefore suspect.  I told her I didn't see how that could be, they did what all Palestinians wish they could have done, just stood firm on the land.  If Israel will let the other 9 million Paletinians back in to become "Israeli Arabs" I think that would solve the problem, actually.  I am being a bit facetious because I guarantee you that won't happen, but my point is.... you can call Palestine Israel as far as most are concerned!  The name of the land is hardly the point.


----------



## amity1844

Arabs were not doing "World's Fairs" at that time.  That was a European thing.  They were nonetheless the huge majority.  Too bad they couldn't represent their own interests.  The Jews wanted to influence people to Aliyah, of course, so that was their motive.

I don't think Mark Twain was ever there.  I think it is sort of a fantasy, like a Yankee in King Arthur's Court or whatever.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Arabs were not doing "World's Fairs" at that time.  That was a European thing.  They were nonetheless the huge majority.  Too bad they couldn't represent their own interests.  The Jews wanted to influence people to Aliyah, of course, so that was their motive.



Were you there, Amity, to see who manned the different booths?  Meanwhile, of course a know-it-all like you realizes that the Jerusalem Post was once named the Palestine Post, and that it was started by Jews.  Now how about you bring up the fact that Winston Churchill, after receiving reports from the British officials in the area, said that the Arabs were coming in droves from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them?  Unless you are very dimwitted, you do realize that this same thing is happening today with poor Hispanics crossing our southern border and poor Muslims flooding in Europe for jobs.  Maybe you could buy some airplane tickets for those poor Black African Muslims who take their lives in their hands by trying to get to Europe in boats that are not seaworthy (which has resulted in many of them drowning).


----------



## amity1844

I have been there a few times, yes, but I am giving the interpretation of historians and geneticists, not my own interpretation.  

And yes, of course the Jerusalem Post was the Palestine Post, and of course it was founded by Jews.  I never said anything that should have been taken as a denial of this.   Herzl established Zionism back in the late 19th century and since that time more and more Jewish institutions were founded!  Your point?  

And I don't doubt that there were a lot of people coming for jobs.  It was a capitalist economy laid over a traditional agricultural economy during VERY difficult economic times, so yes  you are right.  And I do know a lot of Palestinians who are half Palestinian and half Syrian, half Arab and half Jewish, half whatever.   There was some population migration during this time, yes.  But this didn't amount to much at all in demographic terms in comparison to the HUGE Jewish immigration.  

Your point?


----------



## Sally

Lipush said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, that is just not right.  Palestinians were never squatters.  The Arab invasions of the 7th century did not result in much population transfer at all, just the arrival of a new language and culture.  They are as I said.  Genetics has proved this very simply and straighforward, so the debate is really at an end.  I saw a series of videos on You Tube, a guy in Israel will go around and interview members of whatever group and ask them whatever question you want him to ask.  It is really fascinating.  He asked Israeli Jews if they believed Palestinians were "from here" and virtually every one said "yes."  How could they deny it?
> 
> The Jewish community in Palestine was sometimes tiny, sometimes quite large, depending on what was going on in Europe.  During times of pogroms, Spanish Inquisition, etc., an emigration would take place to Palestine.  There was very little way for anyone to make a living in Palestine under the Ottomans, the Palestinians had land to work and were still pretty hungry.  The Jews there were very impoverished and largely dependent on charity income from the Diaspora.  They did not own agricultural land.  There were mainly religious Jews who spent their days praying, almost like a monastic community.
> 
> Jewish history for the last 2000 years is truly interesting.  So many good books out there I don't really need to recommend anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were from "here" after they arrived "here". Read the book of Mark Twain about Israel, he didn't see the same "Palestinians" as you claim existed.
> 
> Jews were natives in Hebron until the "Palestinians" kicked them out then decided suddenly they are the natives themselves. Under 'Palestinian' villages in the north there were discovered Jewish graveyards. In the south the diggins showed the foundings of Jewish property.
> 
> The Jews of the Aliyah were owners of agricultural land, my own family among them. I don't know what history is that you think you know, but it doesn't go hand in hand with facts.
Click to expand...


Lipush, it is the same old, same old the readers have seen for years no matter the screen name of the poster.  One says the same thing, and when that one leaves, another one shows up and begins all over again.  I would imagine some Boiler Room has an endless supply to take the place of the previous poster.  Most of the Arabs living there years ago worked for the rich Turkish landowners who owned the land.  Would anyone claim that the American sharecroppers actually owned the land of the rich guy for whom they worked?  It's funny this claim that the Arabs owned lots of land.  The Arabs who did have property stayed put and are now citizens of Israel.


----------



## amity1844

> Most of the Arabs living there years ago worked for the rich Turkish landowners who owned the land. Would anyone claim that the American sharecroppers actually owned the land of the rich guy for whom they worked? It's funny this claim that the Arabs owned lots of land. The Arabs who did have property stayed put and are now citizens of Israel.



That is really blaming the victim!  It is hardly the Palestinians fault that they were occupied and colonized by Turkey, and a lot of land was expropriated.  But they weren't sharecroppers whatsoever.   Their continuity on the land was so solid that you could tell who was from village A and who was from village B only 10 miles away by the way they were dressed!  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_costume

And the reason most Palestinians left has nothing at all to do with land ownership.  Whether they owned their land or not, they were uprooted and stripped of their title to the land:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internally_Displaced_Palestinians

See the other links I have already posted for a very detailed description of incidents pertaining to the Palestinian exodus, MOST of it provided by Israelis who testify to their own actions and what they witnessed during this time.


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Arabs were not doing "World's Fairs" at that time.  That was a European thing.  They were nonetheless the huge majority.  Too bad they couldn't represent their own interests.  The Jews wanted to influence people to Aliyah, of course, so that was their motive.
> 
> I don't think Mark Twain was ever there.  I think it is sort of a fantasy, like a Yankee in King Arthur's Court or whatever.



They didn't have interest to begin with. A bunch of clans trying to gather around the idea of throwing Jews out is not enough to create a nation.

The idea of the "Palestinian" identity is that they tried to tell themselves they're descendants of the Plishti (Philistine) nation. But the Plishti nation wasn't the native one, either. They were Europian sailors, redheads and pail. They have no ties to today's Palestinians at ALL.

Like I said to many others before, I could cover my mouth with a beak and glue feathers to my skin, it won't make me a bird. They can call themselves Palestinians ten times over, that won't make them the offspring of the long-gone nation.

The Plishtim (&#1508;&#1500;&#1513;&#1514;&#1497;&#1501 were named by Hebrews after the word Paleshet, which means "invader" which is what they were. The Palestinians, irony at its best, name themselves "invaders" yet call themselves natives. Isn't that amusing?


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Most of the Arabs living there years ago worked for the rich Turkish landowners who owned the land. Would anyone claim that the American sharecroppers actually owned the land of the rich guy for whom they worked? It's funny this claim that the Arabs owned lots of land. The Arabs who did have property stayed put and are now citizens of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *That is really blaming the victim! * It is hardly the Palestinians fault that they were occupied and colonized by Turkey, and a lot of land was expropriated.  But they weren't sharecroppers whatsoever.   Their continuity on the land was so solid that you could tell who was from village A and who was from village B only 10 miles away by the way they were dressed!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_costume
> 
> And the reason most Palestinians left has nothing at all to do with land ownership.  Whether they owned their land or not, they were uprooted and stripped of their title to the land:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internally_Displaced_Palestinians
> 
> See the other links I have already posted for a very detailed description of incidents pertaining to the Palestinian exodus, MOST of it provided by Israelis who testify to their own actions and what they witnessed during this time.
Click to expand...


----------



## amity1844

Can't think of anything to say anymore?

Damn I'm good!


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Can't think of anything to say anymore?
> 
> Damn I'm good!



No you're not. But if it's all a game to you there is no point to discuss it any further, now, is there?

Ignorant you are to the real aspects of this conflict, dear poster, and ignorant you shall remain...


----------



## amity1844

Lipush said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn I'm good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you're not. But if it's all a game to you there is no point to discuss it any further, now, is there?
> 
> Ignorant you are to the real aspects of this conflict, dear poster, and ignorant you shall remain...
Click to expand...


No, you _wish_ this was ignorance talking, but I am very well informed, have a well balanced perspective, LOADS of good solid sources, many of them Israeli, and can run circles around you, Lipush.


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn I'm good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you're not. But if it's all a game to you there is no point to discuss it any further, now, is there?
> 
> Ignorant you are to the real aspects of this conflict, dear poster, and ignorant you shall remain...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you _wish_ this was ignorance talking, but I am very well informed, have a well balanced perspective, LOADS of good solid sources, many of them Israeli, and can run circles around you, Lipush.
Click to expand...


*You said two days ago that the only thing you know about the IDF comes from "breaking the silence".*

Are you trying to make fun of yourself? because if I take your previous statement seriously, then....you're either insulting my intelligence, or your own, or both. I can seriously ask you questions about the Israeli-Palestinian conlifct that will seriously embarrass you. I can do that as well. 

So please, be serious.


----------



## amity1844

Lipush said:
			
		

> You said two days ago that the only thing you know about the IDF comes from "breaking the silence".


No, that is not what I said.  I said that is the only source I am familiar with for Israeli soldiers.  I know a decent bit about the IDF apart from that.  


> I can seriously ask you questions about the Israeli-Palestinian conlifct that will seriously embarrass you. I can do that as well.
> 
> So please, be serious.



Oh, I'm serious alright.  Sure, is there somewhere on this forum we can go and have a public debate, just you and I, that no one else can participate in?  Is the softwre set up to allow that?  I think you have been reasonable enough and refrained from invective and name calling well enough that I am willing to do that, and probably we would both learn something from it.


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You said two days ago that the only thing you know about the IDF comes from "breaking the silence".
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is not what I said.  I said that is the only source I am familiar with for Israeli soldiers.  I know a decent bit about the IDF apart from that.
> 
> 
> 
> I can seriously ask you questions about the Israeli-Palestinian conlifct that will seriously embarrass you. I can do that as well.
> 
> So please, be serious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm serious alright.  Sure, is there somewhere on this forum we can go and have a public debate, just you and I, that no one else can participate in?  Is the softwre set up to allow that?  I think you have been reasonable enough and refrained from invective and name calling well enough that I am willing to do that, and probably we would both learn something from it.
Click to expand...


*"No, that is not what I said.  I said that is the only source I am familiar with for Israeli soldiers."*

That's the same as saying it's the only information you recieve about the IDF. If you only have one source you see credible or reachable, the only information you recieve will probably be from said source.

That's common sense, nothing more. So maybe I'm wrong jumping to that conclusion, but that'd probably be the same one you'd get if I told you the same thing. 

*Oh, I'm serious alright.  Sure, is there somewhere on this forum we can go and have a public debate, just you and I, that no one else can participate in?  Is the softwre set up to allow that?"*

I think there was a window for that, I'm not sure. Most of the "debates" there are clashy and stupid from what I've heard. Eh.

You havn't seen my name calling moods, but that is served for really "special" posters, who've crossed the line one time too many. I can be polite if I want. 

Back to the point, I think you should re-consider expending your source list. If the only information reachable is from "breaking the silence" then there is something complietely wrong and twisted with your view on the conflict. Probably not your fault, but still ,the result is clear.


----------



## amity1844

> No, that is not what I said. I said that is the only source I am familiar with for Israeli soldiers."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the same as saying it's the only information you recieve about the IDF. If you only have one source you see credible or reachable, the only information you recieve will probably be from said source.
> 
> That's common sense, nothing more. So maybe I'm wrong jumping to that conclusion, but that'd probably be the same one you'd get if I told you the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know of another website where Israeli soldiers talk about their experience?  If there is one I would love to see it.  But in general I think most soldiers of the world are prohibited from talking about what they do.  So I don't know of another Israeli soldier site, no.  If you can, point me in the direction.  But acctually there have been accounts published, especially from the Irgun, Hagana, etc. that described what they did, so that counts too.
> 
> Most of what is on the forum can be clashy and stupid sometimes.  Let's strive to improve.  Please read the sources I have posted so far, and don't be afraid.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Oh now I get it.  Had the Palestinians just claimed they were the direct descendents of the Lost Tribes of Israel, they would be the indigenous inhabtiants of the land & not just a bunch of squatters for generations.




amity1844 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Among the indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS!  Not a single theiving Muslim Palestinian among them until after the 7th cnentury AD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were the people resident in Palestine.  They are the indigenous people of Palestine.  That is all.  The reason the mandatory language is
> "those who were habitually resident in Palestine" is because they were dissolving the Ottoman Empire, which had been the only political structure in Palestine for literally hundreds of years.  But the people weren't Turkish.  As genetics has proved, they are the descendents of Canaanites and Sea Peoples, Philistines, Assyrians and Jews, Romans, Arabians, Crusaders, many different migrations and influences.  But there has always been a people present continuously on that land.  They are largely Sunni Muslim, but 20 - 30% (depending on location) were Christian, and others were Druze, Bahai, Armenians, indigenous Jews, Circassians, etc.  All these groups are Palestinian, most but not all were Arab.
> 
> Hee are some sources:
> 
> The Palestinian right of return - legal and moral basis:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
> 
> And here are a couple of articles on why they left:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
> 
> And last and saddest to me, the many villages, some going back to Bible times and earlier, that were destroyed:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...epopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus
> 
> You can click on links to read the story of each individual village.  These stories are compiled from not only Palestinians who were present, but also the stories of members of Haganah, Irgun, etc. about their own roles in each case.  They don't deny what they did.  And these villagers had very few arms.  Virtually unamed and, as you will read, in many cases totally non combatant.
> 
> In the case of Deir Yassin, a village on the outskirts of Jerusalem, the Arab population had agreed with the neighboring Jewish town to support and protect each other.  The villagers refuse to allow Arab militias into the town to protect them, belieiving their solidarity with their Jewish neighbors would prevent them behind harmed.  So when the attack came, not a shot was fired by the villagers in resistance.  The Jews from the neighboring town tried to honor their agreement and ran over, running through the streets screaming "No! No!  Don't kill them!"  but to no avail.   Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach units were responsible for the massacre.  Afterward the survivors were paraded through streets of Jerusalem and elsewhere in trucks for several days, telling Arabs to leave before the same fate would befall them.  No one really knows what happened to the "survivors" so it is possible that they were executed after being driven around, but I don't think there is any proof of that yet.  At any rate, no one has turned up and said "I survived the post-Deir Yassin truck ride."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll excuse your silly low brow epipthets, but tell you that you are exactly right otherwise.  Here is the chain of events as best I understand it:
> 
> The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, depopulated the cities, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc.  Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.
> 
> The synagogue tradition was developed, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted.  By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority, descended from the Jewish population.
> 
> At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, a new language and a new culture that mixed in with the old, but no wholesale migration took place.  The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway and couldn't have staged a large migration.
> 
> Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc.  To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians.
> 
> But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout.  Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times.  And Palestinians are about 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times.  By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times.  So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are?  No, I don't think that is the point.  The lesson is about demographics and migration.
> 
> And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted.   These were true "Palestinian Jews."   The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact, still practicing a very old form of Judaism that existed before the Babylonian exile.
> 
> And this is what genetics has now proven.  There is no place for other theories at this point.
> 
> It is interesting to see the continuity.  Someone made the point that the same patterns that appear on Palestinian women's embroidered dresses are seen in Canaanite handcrafts.  All over you will recognize the place names of the Bible.  Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine, became Kafr Kana, etc.  Most of the Christian traditions native to the Levant and Palestine .... Maronite, Syriac, etc. .... use Aramaic as their religious language.  It was the language spoken by Christ.
Click to expand...


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> No, that is not what I said. I said that is the only source I am familiar with for Israeli soldiers."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the same as saying it's the only information you recieve about the IDF. If you only have one source you see credible or reachable, the only information you recieve will probably be from said source.
> 
> That's common sense, nothing more. So maybe I'm wrong jumping to that conclusion, but that'd probably be the same one you'd get if I told you the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know of another website where Israeli soldiers talk about their experience?  If there is one I would love to see it.  But in general I think most soldiers of the world are prohibited from talking about what they do.  So I don't know of another Israeli soldier site, no.  If you can, point me in the direction.  But acctually there have been accounts published, especially from the Irgun, Hagana, etc. that described what they did, so that counts too.
> 
> Most of what is on the forum can be clashy and stupid sometimes.  Let's strive to improve.  Please read the sources I have posted so far, and don't be afraid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Do you know of another website where Israeli soldiers talk about their experience?"
> 
> The forums of Tapuz in Hebrew are common to hear and read stories of soldiers, The Eran organization hold forums and hotline for soldiers in distress as well. the Hehida website also offers help and many stories of IDF soldiers. All are websites in hebrew.
Click to expand...


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> No, that is not what I said. I said that is the only source I am familiar with for Israeli soldiers."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the same as saying it's the only information you recieve about the IDF. If you only have one source you see credible or reachable, the only information you recieve will probably be from said source.
> 
> That's common sense, nothing more. So maybe I'm wrong jumping to that conclusion, but that'd probably be the same one you'd get if I told you the same thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know of another website where Israeli soldiers talk about their experience?  If there is one I would love to see it.  But in general I think most soldiers of the world are prohibited from talking about what they do.  So I don't know of another Israeli soldier site, no.  If you can, point me in the direction.  But acctually there have been accounts published, especially from the Irgun, Hagana, etc. that described what they did, so that counts too.
> 
> Most of what is on the forum can be clashy and stupid sometimes.  Let's strive to improve.  Please read the sources I have posted so far, and don't be afraid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People can tell of their experiences without telling of what the actually DO. that's not always needed. But you need to understand the most basic things of how the IDF works and how it manages. You believe you're informed enough of that?
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Okay, perhaps what those Zionists don't understand is how they have continuously oppressed & brutalized the Palestinians since 1948 into having to becoming "freedom fighters" with terrorism.

With all your wonderful worldly wealth of knowledge & documented sources will you be so kind as to educate them to all of the Palestinian contributions to peace, mankind & civilization before 1948?  'Atta boy!



QUOTE=amity1844;9209212]





> Most of the Arabs living there years ago worked for the rich Turkish landowners who owned the land. Would anyone claim that the American sharecroppers actually owned the land of the rich guy for whom they worked? It's funny this claim that the Arabs owned lots of land. The Arabs who did have property stayed put and are now citizens of Israel.



That is really blaming the victim!  It is hardly the Palestinians fault that they were occupied and colonized by Turkey, and a lot of land was expropriated.  But they weren't sharecroppers whatsoever.   Their continuity on the land was so solid that you could tell who was from village A and who was from village B only 10 miles away by the way they were dressed!  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_costume

And the reason most Palestinians left has nothing at all to do with land ownership.  Whether they owned their land or not, they were uprooted and stripped of their title to the land:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internally_Displaced_Palestinians

See the other links I have already posted for a very detailed description of incidents pertaining to the Palestinian exodus, MOST of it provided by Israelis who testify to their own actions and what they witnessed during this time.[/QUOTE]


----------



## amity1844

> People can tell of their experiences without telling of what the actually DO. that's not always needed. But you need to understand the most basic things of how the IDF works and how it manages. You believe you're informed enough of that?



Do you know of an independent website for Israeli soldiers, forum or otherwise?  If you do I will check it out.  If it is silly I'll blow it off.  If it is serious I will take it seriously.


----------



## Kondor3

Sally said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, that is just not right.  Palestinians were never squatters.  The Arab invasions of the 7th century did not result in much population transfer at all, just the arrival of a new language and culture.  They are as I said.  Genetics has proved this very simply and straighforward, so the debate is really at an end.  I saw a series of videos on You Tube, a guy in Israel will go around and interview members of whatever group and ask them whatever question you want him to ask.  It is really fascinating.  He asked Israeli Jews if they believed Palestinians were "from here" and virtually every one said "yes."  How could they deny it?
> 
> The Jewish community in Palestine was sometimes tiny, sometimes quite large, depending on what was going on in Europe.  During times of pogroms, Spanish Inquisition, etc., an emigration would take place to Palestine.  There was very little way for anyone to make a living in Palestine under the Ottomans, the Palestinians had land to work and were still pretty hungry.  The Jews there were very impoverished and largely dependent on charity income from the Diaspora.  They did not own agricultural land.  There were mainly religious Jews who spent their days praying, almost like a monastic community.
> 
> Jewish history for the last 2000 years is truly interesting.  So many good books out there I don't really need to recommend anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were from "here" after they arrived "here". Read the book of Mark Twain about Israel, he didn't see the same "Palestinians" as you claim existed.
> 
> Jews were natives in Hebron until the "Palestinians" kicked them out then decided suddenly they are the natives themselves. Under 'Palestinian' villages in the north there were discovered Jewish graveyards. In the south the diggins showed the foundings of Jewish property.
> 
> The Jews of the Aliyah were owners of agricultural land, my own family among them. I don't know what history is that you think you know, but it doesn't go hand in hand with facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lipush, it is the same old, same old the readers have seen for years no matter the screen name of the poster.  One says the same thing, and when that one leaves, another one shows up and begins all over again.  I would imagine some Boiler Room has an endless supply to take the place of the previous poster.  Most of the Arabs living there years ago worked for the rich Turkish landowners who owned the land.  Would anyone claim that the American sharecroppers actually owned the land of the rich guy for whom they worked?  It's funny this claim that the Arabs owned lots of land.  The Arabs who did have property stayed put and are now citizens of Israel.
Click to expand...

Yep... that and a foolproof proxy IP server.

Same old shit... same old style... same old content... time and again and again.

Some of 'em are even decent English-speakers... _some_ of 'em... ;-)


----------



## amity1844

> Oh now I get it. Had the Palestinians just claimed they were the direct descendents of the Lost Tribes of Israel, they would be the indigenous inhabtiants of the land & not just a bunch of squatters for generations.



No, you don't get it.  The Paletinians ARE among the descendants of the actual Jewish population of the Roman period.  Bar Kochba's kids, as it were.  Now I am sure if you have been to Israel you have seen enough to let you know that the Jews were not all expelled in 70AD and many stayed right there in that land.  Didn't you wonder what happened to them and where they went?  Well, here they are!  The Palestinians!  And it isn't just a coincidence that, as a friend put it, "they dress like the pictures in my New Testament."  This relationship has been solidly proven by a genetic study.


----------



## amity1844

> Yep... that and a foolproof proxy IP server.
> 
> Same old shit... same old style... same old content... time and again and again.
> 
> Some of 'em are even decent English-speakers... _some_ of 'em... ;-)



The reason you keep hearing the same story over and over is because it is the truth and lots of folks know it!  

Nope, I am who I say I am.  A 60 year old American WASP woman.  And I am honestly not in touch with any Palestinians or other Arabs right now.  But I am going to remedy that.  Let's see if anyone can figure out the riddle.  Probably not.  But never mind.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> Oh now I get it. Had the Palestinians just claimed they were the direct descendents of the Lost Tribes of Israel, they would be the indigenous inhabtiants of the land & not just a bunch of squatters for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't get it.  The Paletinians ARE among the descendants of the actual Jewish population of the Roman period.  Bar Kochba's kids, as it were.  Now I am sure if you have been to Israel you have seen enough to let you know that the Jews were not all expelled in 70AD and many stayed right there in that land.  Didn't you wonder what happened to them and where they went?  Well, here they are!  The Palestinians!  And it isn't just a coincidence that, as a friend put it, "they dress like the pictures in my New Testament."  This relationship has been solidly proven by a genetic study.
Click to expand...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Hebrews...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Canaanites...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Phoenicians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Phillistines...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Samarians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Sumerians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Babylonians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Akkadians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Hittites

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Assyrians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Persians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Mongols...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Bedouin...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Ethiopians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Scythians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Parthians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Turks...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Minoans...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Greeks...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Romans...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Medieval Europeans...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Egyptians...

Some Palestinians show genetic markers that identify them in-part as Berbers...

And on and on and on...

Some show very strong generic markers pointing to very recent migrations...

They're mutts?

So what?

If they're part Jewish, then they're descended from Jews who betrayed their own kind, and the faith of their fathers, to convert to Islam, rather than keep The Covenant...

Not the sort of ancestors that _I'd_ want to brag about...


----------



## amity1844

Well, technically they converted to Christianity, but okay.  Actually I think you've got the gist of it now.  

Jews of the late Roman period were part of all the aforementioned groups, too.  Much of the Old Testament is the story of intermarriage with other groups.  And that is largely where the Palestinians got it from because they are 80% identical with Jews of the late Roman era.  

And we're all mutts.  Only Hitler should have any problem with that statement.  Viva hybrid vigor!  Down with racial purity!


----------



## Kondor3

Now? I've had the gist of it for decades.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Yep... that and a foolproof proxy IP server.
> 
> Same old shit... same old style... same old content... time and again and again.
> 
> Some of 'em are even decent English-speakers... _some_ of 'em... ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you keep hearing the same story over and over is because it is the truth and lots of folks know it!
> 
> Nope, I am who I say I am.  A 60 year old American WASP woman.  And I am honestly not in touch with any Palestinians or other Arabs right now.  But I am going to remedy that.  Let's see if anyone can figure out the riddle.  Probably not.  But never mind.
Click to expand...


There are other WASPs who are keeping track of all the Christians being killed in the Muslim world, and they actually would wonder about you.  The real reason that you and yours repeat the same old stuff ad nauseam on forums is because you think by repeating it,  you hope that the viewers will finally take it as the truth.  To me, this is just like what Goebbels said.


----------



## amity1844

Sally said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep... that and a foolproof proxy IP server.
> 
> Same old shit... same old style... same old content... time and again and again.
> 
> Some of 'em are even decent English-speakers... _some_ of 'em... ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you keep hearing the same story over and over is because it is the truth and lots of folks know it!
> 
> Nope, I am who I say I am.  A 60 year old American WASP woman.  And I am honestly not in touch with any Palestinians or other Arabs right now.  But I am going to remedy that.  Let's see if anyone can figure out the riddle.  Probably not.  But never mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are other WASPs who are keeping track of all the Christians being killed in the Muslim world, and they actually would wonder about you.  The real reason that you and yours repeat the same old stuff ad nauseam on forums is because you think by repeating it,  you hope that the viewers will finally take it as the truth.  To me, this is just like what Goebbels said.
Click to expand...


Yes, you're right, I do think people will believe it.  I think some people's worldview is shaking a bit right now.  But I just got back into this, though.  I haven't been on any other forums posting on this issue.  

I could blame myself for that and say "well, I could have had a constructive effect if I had been diligent."  But it is never too late.  I know I am a force for good and I could argue the entire Israeli Ministry of Disinformation under the table.  But I do it with love in my sad little heart for both sides, and a very sincere desire to bring this whole nasty conflict to an end.


----------



## MJB12741

Thank you for acknowledging my point that the Jews were native Palestinians.  No Islam at all until the 7th cnetury AD.  Now do you understand that with the exception of whatever small amount of Jews may have converted to Islam the rest of the Muslim Palestinians are just a bunch of squatters for generations with no titles or deeds to their stolen land whatsoever?





amity1844 said:


> Oh now I get it. Had the Palestinians just claimed they were the direct descendents of the Lost Tribes of Israel, they would be the indigenous inhabtiants of the land & not just a bunch of squatters for generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't get it.  The Paletinians ARE among the descendants of the actual Jewish population of the Roman period.  Bar Kochba's kids, as it were.  Now I am sure if you have been to Israel you have seen enough to let you know that the Jews were not all expelled in 70AD and many stayed right there in that land.  Didn't you wonder what happened to them and where they went?  Well, here they are!  The Palestinians!  And it isn't just a coincidence that, as a friend put it, "they dress like the pictures in my New Testament."  This relationship has been solidly proven by a genetic study.
Click to expand...


----------



## amity1844

THAT was your point?  That Jews are native Palestinians?  Oh heck yeah I acknowledge it.  What have I been writing all day?  Sometimes I wonder do you folks actually read?  I do not agree with any right of return, though.

NO, the Palestinians are NOT squatters.  The ancient Jews are the ancestors of the modern Palestinians.  (sigh...)


----------



## MJB12741

Now you have gone beyongd just riduculous.  The overwqhelming majority of modern Palestinians came from surrounding Arab countries.  Do have any idea as to why that is?





amity1844 said:


> THAT was your point?  Oh heck yeah I acknowledge it.  What have I been writing all day?  Sometimes I wonder do you folks actually read?  I do not agree with any right of return, though.
> 
> NO, they are NOT squatters.  The ancient Jews are the ancestors of the modern Palestinians.  (sigh...)


----------



## amity1844

My gawd.  No, the Palestinians do not come from surrounding countries.  Genetic testing has proved they are the descendants of the Jewish population.  Here is the picture, which I am reposting:

The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, depopulated the cities, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much. 

The synagogue tradition was developed, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted. By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority, descended from the Jewish population. 

At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, a new language and a new culture that mixed in with the old, but no wholesale migration took place. The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway and couldn't have staged a large migration. 

Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc. To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians. 

But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout. Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times. And Palestinians are about 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times. By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times. So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are? No, I don't think that is the point. The lesson is about demographics and migration. 

And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted. These were true "Palestinian Jews." The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact, still practicing a very old form of Judaism that existed before the Babylonian exile.

And this is what genetics has now proven. There is no place for other theories at this point.

It is interesting to see the continuity. Someone made the point that the same patterns that appear on Palestinian women's embroidered dresses are seen in Canaanite handcrafts. All over you will recognize the place names of the Bible. Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine, became Kafr Kana, etc. Most of the Christian traditions native to the Levant and Palestine .... Maronite, Syriac, etc. .... use Aramaic as their religious language. It was the language spoken by Christ.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> Back to the point, I think you should re-consider expending your source list. If the only information reachable is from "breaking the silence" then there is something complietely wrong and twisted with your view on the conflict. Probably not your fault, but still ,the result is clear.


No, there's something completely wrong and twisted about someone who automatically dismisses the testimonies from "Breaking the Silence", without presenting (or having) any evidence to the contrary.

BTS shows the truth about Israel and what the IDF is really doing.


----------



## amity1844

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Back to the point, I think you should re-consider expending your source list. If the only information reachable is from "breaking the silence" then there is something complietely wrong and twisted with your view on the conflict. Probably not your fault, but still ,the result is clear.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's something completely wrong and twisted about someone who automatically dismisses the testimonies from "Breaking the Silence", without presenting (or having) any evidence to the contrary.
> 
> BTS shows the truth about Israel and what the IDF is really doing.
Click to expand...


Billo is so right.  I think anyone who watches those testimonies is going to know they are telling the truth.  

And if not, we have plenty of videos on You Tube.  If I ever get a million bucks I will buy video cameras and send them to the West Bank and Gaza.  The situation is truly undeniable at this point.


----------



## Billo_Really

Sally said:


> As you can see, Lipush, we are getting the same song and dance that has appeared to many times on this particular forum.  It's too bad we couldn't find someone who manned the Palestine Booth at the World's Fair in 1940 ...


How about the words of a famous Zionist humanist living in that area at that time? 

Would he do?




> _*the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives *... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination*
> 
> - Ahad Ha'am
> _


So according to him, the "natives", were not the "jews".

He also had a premonition that rains true in each and everyone of you (and your ilk's') posts.



> _ *'[the Zionists] wax angry towards those who remind them that there is still another people in Eretz Yisrael that has been living there and does not intend at all to leave its place. *In a future when this illusion will have been torn from their hearts and they will look with open eyes upon the reality as it is, they will certainly understand how important this question is and how great our duty to work for its solution'. _


 Boy, isn't that the nail on the head!

You people get really pissed off any time someone suggests the Pals were the indigenous population (in that area) during the Zionist migration.


----------



## Billo_Really

amity1844 said:


> Billo is so right.  I think anyone who watches those testimonies is going to know they are telling the truth.
> 
> And if not, we have plenty of videos on You Tube.  If I ever get a million bucks I will buy video cameras and send them to the West Bank and Gaza.  The situation is truly undeniable at this point.


It's the Israeli version of "Winter Soldier".


----------



## amity1844

I think this is really a cute article:
Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports

Actually I don't know why this woman is so surprised by the realization that Palestinians descended from the Jews, and don't really think it is "politically incorrect" to acknowledge this in the middle east.  Palestinians have long known it and several told me this decades before this study took place.  I think it is maybe just a shock to Jews.  

Palestinian cohanim?!?!?!?!?  The sky is falling.

Billo - I love your tag line!


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Back to the point, I think you should re-consider expending your source list. If the only information reachable is from "breaking the silence" then there is something complietely wrong and twisted with your view on the conflict. Probably not your fault, but still ,the result is clear.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's something completely wrong and twisted about someone who automatically dismisses the testimonies from "Breaking the Silence", without presenting (or having) any evidence to the contrary.
> 
> BTS shows the truth about Israel and what the IDF is really doing.
Click to expand...


I know more about the IDF and its sometimes cruelty than 1000 stories of breaking the silence. I lived among IDF soldiers from the day I was born and tasted the cruelty of the system.

"Breaking the silence" tells me nothing new. So you can take that site and shove it.


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, Lipush, we are getting the same song and dance that has appeared to many times on this particular forum.  It's too bad we couldn't find someone who manned the Palestine Booth at the World's Fair in 1940 ...
> 
> 
> 
> How about the words of a famous Zionist humanist living in that area at that time?
> 
> Would he do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives *... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination*
> 
> - Ahad Ha'am
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So according to him, the "natives", were not the "jews".
> 
> He also had a premonition that rains true in each and everyone of you (and your ilk's') posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ *'[the Zionists] wax angry towards those who remind them that there is still another people in Eretz Yisrael that has been living there and does not intend at all to leave its place. *In a future when this illusion will have been torn from their hearts and they will look with open eyes upon the reality as it is, they will certainly understand how important this question is and how great our duty to work for its solution'. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Boy, isn't that the nail on the head!
> 
> You people get really pissed off any time someone suggests the Pals were the indigenous population (in that area) during the Zionist migration.
Click to expand...


*Why don't you just f*ck off?! you said previously that Zionists are all basters and subhuman, so now you talk about "Zionist humanitarists"?

Are you that hypocrite? Or is it that you're a Zionist-hater only when it suits you, or that Zionists can be good only when they trash their own state?*


----------



## amity1844

amity1844 said:


> I think this is really a cute article:
> Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
> 
> Actually I don't know why this woman is so surprised by the realization that Palestinians descended from the Jews, and don't really think it is "politically incorrect" to acknowledge this in the middle east.  Palestinians have long known it and several told me this decades before this study took place.  I think it is maybe just a shock to Jews.
> 
> Palestinian cohanim?!?!?!?!?  The sky is falling.
> 
> Billo - I love your tag line!



Well, I knew it only from Palestinians.  It is good to have Israelis vouch for it too because a lot of people (not naming any names) will not believe Palstinians even if they say the sky is blue, right?  


edit:I included the wrong quote with this comment, meant to be responding to the comment on Breaking the Silence.

And, Lipush, just read the article I linked to.  It will make you feel a little bit better about Palestinians as the Native People.  Or maybe it will make you feel worse, don't know.


----------



## amity1844

This is a good film.  I was moved to tears to hear a quote from David Ben Gurion that "There is no doubt there is a lot of Jewish blood in the veins of the Arabs.  They had to choose between their religion or their land, and they loved the land so much that they chose their land."
That is mind-boggling.  If even Ben Gurion was well aware of this, how in the Sam Hill did he not adapt his plans for Jewish statehood to include the Palestinians?  And how did this knowledge fall out of Israelis' minds?


----------



## TemplarKormac

Truthseeker420 said:


> The original people of Palestine. Part of the Canaan society that Hebrews could not defeat when they invaded Palestine.



Wrong. The Canaanites died out 3,000 years ago. No such area as Palestine existed then. Moreover, there is no possible way to corroborate such a claim without any living descendants of the Canaanites around to test.


----------



## toastman

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, Lipush, we are getting the same song and dance that has appeared to many times on this particular forum.  It's too bad we couldn't find someone who manned the Palestine Booth at the World's Fair in 1940 ...
> 
> 
> 
> How about the words of a famous Zionist humanist living in that area at that time?
> 
> Would he do?
> 
> 
> So according to him, the "natives", were not the "jews".
> 
> He also had a premonition that rains true in each and everyone of you (and your ilk's') posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ *'[the Zionists] wax angry towards those who remind them that there is still another people in Eretz Yisrael that has been living there and does not intend at all to leave its place. *In a future when this illusion will have been torn from their hearts and they will look with open eyes upon the reality as it is, they will certainly understand how important this question is and how great our duty to work for its solution'. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Boy, isn't that the nail on the head!
> 
> You people get really pissed off any time someone suggests the Pals were the indigenous population (in that area) during the Zionist migration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Why don't you just f*ck off?! you said previously that Zionists are all basters and subhuman, so now you talk about "Zionist humanitarists"?
> 
> Are you that hypocrite? Or is it that you're a Zionist-hater only when it suits you, or that Zionists can be good only when they trash their own state?*
Click to expand...


To answer your question, yes, Billo is a hypocrite.


----------



## amity1844

Watch the film above, guys.  Watch and have an epiphany you won't forget for the rest of your lives..


----------



## TemplarKormac

amity1844 said:


> The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, depopulated the cities, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.



Actually, not all of the Jews were forced into diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple, in fact, you can say the population grew. By the time the 9th Century rolled around, Jerusalem and Tiberias had been reestablished as Jewish settlements in Israel. By the 11th Century, you had more prospering Jewish settlements in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. After the Crusaders decimated the Jewish population in the 12th Century, hordes of Rabbis and Jewish Pilgrims began flocking back to Jerusalem and Galilee. Over the next 300 years, prominent Rabbis began resettling in Jerusalem and Safed.

By 1870, there were as many as 10,000 Jews living in Israel.  Almost 80 years of nation building later the Jewish State was formed in 1947.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Amity. You are seriously going to have to stop linking the Palestinians to the Canaanites. The Canaanites died out at least 2,000 years before Palestinian ancestors settled there. In fact, before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, the Palestinians admitted their lineage could only be traced as far back as the Conquests of Muhammad in the 7th Century AD.  There is no proof that the Palestinians were ever descended from the Canaanites.


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is really a cute article:
> Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
> 
> Actually I don't know why this woman is so surprised by the realization that Palestinians descended from the Jews, and don't really think it is "politically incorrect" to acknowledge this in the middle east.  Palestinians have long known it and several told me this decades before this study took place.  I think it is maybe just a shock to Jews.
> 
> Palestinian cohanim?!?!?!?!?  The sky is falling.
> 
> Billo - I love your tag line!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I knew it only from Palestinians.  It is good to have Israelis vouch for it too because a lot of people (not naming any names) will not believe Palstinians even if they say the sky is blue, right?
> 
> 
> edit:I included the wrong quote with this comment, meant to be responding to the comment on Breaking the Silence.
> 
> And, Lipush, just read the article I linked to.  It will make you feel a little bit better about Palestinians as the Native People.  Or maybe it will make you feel worse, don't know.
Click to expand...


My own family was native, until the Arab squatters burned their ranch and what they didn't destroy, the took for themselves. Now somehow the roles changed, and you ask me to feed the twisted truth? Yeah, I'll watch. And then I'll puke


----------



## amity1844

TemplarKormac said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, depopulated the cities, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, not all of the Jews were forced into diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple, in fact, you can say the population grew. By the time the 9th Century rolled around, Jerusalem and Tiberias had been reestablished as Jewish settlements in Israel. By the 11th Century, you had more prospering Jewish settlements in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. After the Crusaders decimated the Jewish population in the 12th Century, hordes of Rabbis and Jewish Pilgrims began flocking back to Jerusalem and Galilee. Over the next 300 years, prominent Rabbis began resettling in Jerusalem and Safed.
> 
> By 1870, there were as many as 10,000 Jews living in Israel.  Almost 80 years of nation building later the Jewish State was formed in 1947.
Click to expand...

Yes!  That is part of what I am saying!  
Please read and watch the film.


----------



## TemplarKormac

amity1844 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, depopulated the cities, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, not all of the Jews were forced into diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple, in fact, you can say the population grew. By the time the 9th Century rolled around, Jerusalem and Tiberias had been reestablished as Jewish settlements in Israel. By the 11th Century, you had more prospering Jewish settlements in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. After the Crusaders decimated the Jewish population in the 12th Century, hordes of Rabbis and Jewish Pilgrims began flocking back to Jerusalem and Galilee. Over the next 300 years, prominent Rabbis began resettling in Jerusalem and Safed.
> 
> By 1870, there were as many as 10,000 Jews living in Israel.  Almost 80 years of nation building later the Jewish State was formed in 1947.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes!  That is part of what I am saying!
> Please read and watch the film.
Click to expand...


Actually, no. Stop deflecting to the film. You contended that Jewish cities were depopulated by the Romans in 70 AD. What I'm saying is that you're wrong. The Jews continued to persist even after the destruction of the Second Temple, even after a large portion of the Jewish population was forced into diaspora. I just explained why. Of course it wasn't all Jewish, Israel was conquered and reconquered over a span of a couple of millennia. But even then, I don't see how this in any way links them to the Palestinians. Utterly preposterous. Your argument is nothing but a fallacy of false cause.


----------



## amity1844

> Actually, no. Stop deflecting to the film. You contended that Jewish cities were depopulated by the Romans in 70 AD. What I'm saying is that you're wrong. The Jews continued to persist even after the destruction of the Second Temple, even after a large portion of the Jewish population was forced into diaspora. I just explained why.



I have read a number of Jewish histories and the belief generally seems to be that the cities were depopulated.  NEARLY everyone was either taken into slavery in Rome or escaped into the countryside.  If you have evidence au contraire, please post.  I'd love to read more about the history.  

I think most people are just blown away by the fact that Palestinians are descended from the Jews of 2000 years ago.

Yes, you are right, the Jewish population persisted, but in the countryside.  As time went on they became the Palestinians.  This is not a theory.  This is proven by genetics 100% certain.  I think a lot of Palestinians know this, but Jews amazingly don't.  Well, except for David Ben Gurion I guess!


----------



## TemplarKormac

amity1844 said:


> Actually, no. Stop deflecting to the film. You contended that Jewish cities were depopulated by the Romans in 70 AD. What I'm saying is that you're wrong. The Jews continued to persist even after the destruction of the Second Temple, even after a large portion of the Jewish population was forced into diaspora. I just explained why.
> 
> 
> 
> I have read a number of Jewish histories and the belief generally seems to be that the cities were depopulated.  NEARLY everyone was either taken into slavery in Rome or escaped into the countryside.  If you have evidence au contraire, please post.  I'd love to read more about the history.
> 
> I think most people are just blown away by the fact that Palestinians are descended from the Jews of 2000 years ago.
Click to expand...


There is no genetic link between native Jews and Palestinians. Unless you can prove it,  your argument is bunk.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Moreover, I would like you to start citing sources, not films. You claim to have read a bunch of Jewish history, lets see it.


----------



## amity1844

I have already "proven" it, you just won't read what I have posted.  Actually I didn't prove it, scientists at Hadassah or Hebrew University did.  At least 80% of the Palestinians' genes, haplotypes, is identical with ancient Jews of the Roman period.  Among Jewish Israelis, the actual percentage of shared haplogroups with ancient Jews is lower, 72%.


----------



## TemplarKormac

I'll be back later today, Amity. You simply have no idea who you're up against. I spent the better part of a year studying the Israeli-Palestinian conflict inside and out. I also debated pro-Palestinian people such as you. 

I think you are nothing but a propagandist. With little more than anecdotal evidence to your name.


----------



## amity1844

The woman in the film gives an exact citation of the study so you can look it up.  
Watch the film.


----------



## amity1844

TemplarKormac said:


> I'll be back later today, Amity. You simply have no idea who you're up against. I spent the better part of a year studying the Israeli-Palestinian conflict inside and out. I also debated pro-Palestinian people such as you.
> 
> I think you are nothing but a propagandist. With little more than anecdotal evidence to your name.



If you are going to be muleheaded you are going to lose this one.  The people on this forum do have brains and can plainly see the scientists describing their findings.


----------



## TemplarKormac

amity1844 said:


> I have already "proven" it, you just won't read what I have posted.  Actually I didn't prove it, scientists at Hadassah or Hebrew University did.  At least 80% of the Palestinians' genes, haplotypes, is identical with ancient Jews of the Roman period.  Among Jewish Israelis, the actual percentage of shared haplogroups with ancient Jews is lower, 72%.



How do you explain the Ashkenazi Jews then? According to the Bray Study in 2010, they more closely aligned with Europeans than Middle Easterners. As least 55% share their genome with Europeans. I'd like to see you explain that one away.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Actually, I'm nowhere close to being muleheaded, miss. Your biases towards the Palestinians as opposed to the Jews is quite evident. People cannot make good arguments when their reasoning is tainted by personal bias.


----------



## Lipush

I like your attitude.


----------



## P F Tinmore

amity1844 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Back to the point, I think you should re-consider expending your source list. If the only information reachable is from "breaking the silence" then there is something complietely wrong and twisted with your view on the conflict. Probably not your fault, but still ,the result is clear.
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's something completely wrong and twisted about someone who automatically dismisses the testimonies from "Breaking the Silence", without presenting (or having) any evidence to the contrary.
> 
> BTS shows the truth about Israel and what the IDF is really doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billo is so right.  I think anyone who watches those testimonies is going to know they are telling the truth.
> 
> And if not, we have plenty of videos on You Tube.  If I ever get a million bucks I will buy video cameras and send them to the West Bank and Gaza.  The situation is truly undeniable at this point.
Click to expand...


If what those Israeli soldiers say match what you see on the ground, how can you say it is not true.

BTW, B'Tselem has a "shooting back" project where they give Palestinians cameras to document events.



> On 24 April 2013, as has been a frequent occurrence of late, settlers from Givat Gal came onto the privately owned land of the Zaro family, of Hebron. The landowners called the police to report the trespassing. Israeli soldiers came to the scene and, rather than sending the settlers away, arrested the Palestinians. The police then insisted on detaining the Zaros overnight. Part of the incident was filmed by one of the men detained, Sh'hab a-Din Zaro, a volunteer in BTselems camera project. The detainees were released from custody the following day by a military judge after this video footage was presented in court by their legal counsel, Adv. Nery Ramati of the Gaby Lasky law firm, and it was proven that the there was no justification for the arrest, which involved violence towards one of the Zaros.
> 
> Camera distribution project | B'Tselem



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ9BLW2TEw0]Violent dispersal of a demonstration in a-Nabi Saleh 13.5.2011 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Billo_Really said:
			
		

> _*the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives *... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. *They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination*
> 
> - Ahad Ha'am
> _
> 
> 
> 
> So according to him, the "natives", were not the "jews".
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> Actually, no. Stop deflecting to the film. You contended that Jewish cities were depopulated by the Romans in 70 AD. What I'm saying is that you're wrong. The Jews continued to persist even after the destruction of the Second Temple, even after a large portion of the Jewish population was forced into diaspora. I just explained why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have read a number of Jewish histories and the belief generally seems to be that the cities were depopulated.  NEARLY everyone was either taken into slavery in Rome or escaped into the countryside.  If you have evidence au contraire, please post.  I'd love to read more about the history.
> 
> I think most people are just blown away by the fact that Palestinians are descended from the Jews of 2000 years ago.
> 
> Yes, you are right, the Jewish population persisted, but in the countryside.  As time went on they became the Palestinians.  This is not a theory.  This is proven by genetics 100% certain.  I think a lot of Palestinians know this, but Jews amazingly don't.  Well, except for David Ben Gurion I guess!
Click to expand...

Actually Palestinians are Arabs identical to their Arab neighbors both culturally and genetically, most of which invaded the land in the 19th and 20th centuries. To say that Palestinians and Jews are the same is as ridiculous as saying all Arabs and Jews are the same. 

It's the same bullshit over and over.  You guys need to get your stories straight.  One second the Jews are Europeans and the other the Jews are the same as the Palestinians. Ha ha ha.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, no. Stop deflecting to the film. You contended that Jewish cities were depopulated by the Romans in 70 AD. What I'm saying is that you're wrong. The Jews continued to persist even after the destruction of the Second Temple, even after a large portion of the Jewish population was forced into diaspora. I just explained why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have read a number of Jewish histories and the belief generally seems to be that the cities were depopulated.  NEARLY everyone was either taken into slavery in Rome or escaped into the countryside.  If you have evidence au contraire, please post.  I'd love to read more about the history.
> 
> I think most people are just blown away by the fact that Palestinians are descended from the Jews of 2000 years ago.
> 
> Yes, you are right, the Jewish population persisted, but in the countryside.  As time went on they became the Palestinians.  This is not a theory.  This is proven by genetics 100% certain.  I think a lot of Palestinians know this, but Jews amazingly don't.  Well, except for David Ben Gurion I guess!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Palestinians are Arabs identical to their Arab neighbors both culturally and genetically, most of which invaded the land in the 19th and 20th centuries. To say that Palestinians and Jews are the same is as ridiculous as saying all Arabs and Jews are the same.
> 
> It's the same bullshit over and over.  *You guys need to get your stories straight. * One second the Jews are Europeans and the other the Jews are the same as the Palestinians. Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


There is no contradiction. There were native Jews then there were invading Jews from Europe.

You people are the ones who are confused.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have read a number of Jewish histories and the belief generally seems to be that the cities were depopulated.  NEARLY everyone was either taken into slavery in Rome or escaped into the countryside.  If you have evidence au contraire, please post.  I'd love to read more about the history.
> 
> I think most people are just blown away by the fact that Palestinians are descended from the Jews of 2000 years ago.
> 
> Yes, you are right, the Jewish population persisted, but in the countryside.  As time went on they became the Palestinians.  This is not a theory.  This is proven by genetics 100% certain.  I think a lot of Palestinians know this, but Jews amazingly don't.  Well, except for David Ben Gurion I guess!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Palestinians are Arabs identical to their Arab neighbors both culturally and genetically, most of which invaded the land in the 19th and 20th centuries. To say that Palestinians and Jews are the same is as ridiculous as saying all Arabs and Jews are the same.
> 
> It's the same bullshit over and over.  *You guys need to get your stories straight. * One second the Jews are Europeans and the other the Jews are the same as the Palestinians. Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no contradiction. There were native Jews then there were invading Jews from Europe.
> 
> You people are the ones who are confused.
Click to expand...

Aha. And now a third story.  

So it wasn't all Muslims and some Christians that were left in the land, and the Jews did indeed maintain a presence throughout the millennia in the land of their ancestors.  Making them the true natives, and the Arabs and Muslims invaders from neighboring countries.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore;  _et al,_

Our friend "P F Tinmore" is correct, in so much as the two different sources of Jewish Populations.



P F Tinmore said:


> There is no contradiction. There were native Jews then there were invading Jews from Europe.
> 
> You people are the ones who are confused.


*(COMMENT)*

You had an indigenous population with a Jewish component; and you had a immigrant population with a Jewish component.

However, there was no invasion.  That is simply an attempt to over dramatize the lawful immigration under Article 6.  _(The perpetual victim scenario by drama queens.) _

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## amity1844

TemplarKormac said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already "proven" it, you just won't read what I have posted.  Actually I didn't prove it, scientists at Hadassah or Hebrew University did.  At least 80% of the Palestinians' genes, haplotypes, is identical with ancient Jews of the Roman period.  Among Jewish Israelis, the actual percentage of shared haplogroups with ancient Jews is lower, 72%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you explain the Ashkenazi Jews then? According to the Bray Study in 2010, they more closely aligned with Europeans than Middle Easterners. As least 55% share their genome with Europeans. I'd like to see you explain that one away.
Click to expand...


If I understand what you are saying, then that is not the finding of this study.  The study shows that Ashkenazi Jews (Ashkenazim) are more closely related to ancient Judea Jews than are Mizrahim, and therefore more closely related to Palestinians than to Mizrahim.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have read a number of Jewish histories and the belief generally seems to be that the cities were depopulated.  NEARLY everyone was either taken into slavery in Rome or escaped into the countryside.  If you have evidence au contraire, please post.  I'd love to read more about the history.
> 
> I think most people are just blown away by the fact that Palestinians are descended from the Jews of 2000 years ago.
> 
> Yes, you are right, the Jewish population persisted, but in the countryside.  As time went on they became the Palestinians.  This is not a theory.  This is proven by genetics 100% certain.  I think a lot of Palestinians know this, but Jews amazingly don't.  Well, except for David Ben Gurion I guess!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Palestinians are Arabs identical to their Arab neighbors both culturally and genetically, most of which invaded the land in the 19th and 20th centuries. To say that Palestinians and Jews are the same is as ridiculous as saying all Arabs and Jews are the same.
> 
> It's the same bullshit over and over.  *You guys need to get your stories straight. * One second the Jews are Europeans and the other the Jews are the same as the Palestinians. Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no contradiction. There were native Jews then there were invading Jews from Europe.
> 
> You people are the ones who are confused.
Click to expand...


Actually, it is you who is confused...as usual.

No Jews invaded. They were invited by the British and their immigration facilitated. 
'Zionist invasion' is just Palestinian propaganda.


----------



## amity1844

Roudy said:


> Actually Palestinians are Arabs identical to their Arab neighbors both culturally and genetically, most of which invaded the land in the 19th and 20th centuries. To say that Palestinians and Jews are the same is as ridiculous as saying all Arabs and Jews are the same.
> 
> It's the same bullshit over and over.  You guys need to get your stories straight.  One second the Jews are Europeans and the other the Jews are the same as the Palestinians. Ha ha ha.



No, there is a clear genetic distinction between Palestinians and neighboring Arabs.  The Palestinians alone show the haplotype of ancient Jews.  

Look, this little piece of trouble making is the product of Israeli minds, and good solid scientific minds, too.  The research is a joint project of Hebrew University and Hadassah Medical Center.  They weren't trying to prove this, and were apparently set back on their tails when they got the result.  They broadcast their results on Israeli tv in 2009, where it caused a bit of an uproar to say the least.  The videos on You Tube have comments disabled, a sign that it is still causing trouble.  So don't blame me, I'm just the messenger.  And as I pointed out, Ben Gurion knew it too!

On the other hand, many Palestinians have known this all along without having the genetic studies to back it up and don't make a whole lot of fuss over it.  Several Palestinians told me this back in the 70s, it is part of their cultural memory, plus they know the history of the land, not just their history as a people.  I have been going around telling others for upward of 40 years as just an obvious leap of logic, because based on what I knew, it seemed pretty obvious to me.  Otherwise where did the Jews of post-Roman Israel/Palestine go?  Were they abducted by aliens?  So now we have proof positive.  As this show makes clear, the process of conversion has been going on for a very long time and some Palestinians are still observant Jews.  

Genetic history is now offering some serious surprises.  For one thing, the Anglo Saxon invasion of England never happened.  Those genes are not found to any significant degree among the British past the east coast.  Furthemore, the Americas were settled by some group OTHER THAN so-called "native Americans" who came over via the Bering Sea land bridge 15000 years ago as we were all taught in elementary school.  "Gypsies" (Roma) are originally from India.  We are all just going to have to live with and be blown away by what new genetic studies are showing. 

(Palestinian cohanim?!?!?  THAT surprised even me.)


----------



## MJB12741

Thank you so much Amity for joining in with us.  So little left for us to laugh at these days of Palestinian terrorists attacking Israel & Middle East Muslim terrorists killing us infidels all over the world.





amity1844 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be back later today, Amity. You simply have no idea who you're up against. I spent the better part of a year studying the Israeli-Palestinian conflict inside and out. I also debated pro-Palestinian people such as you.
> 
> I think you are nothing but a propagandist. With little more than anecdotal evidence to your name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are going to be muleheaded you are going to lose this one.  The people on this forum do have brains and can plainly see the scientists describing their findings.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore;  _et al,_
> 
> Our friend "P F Tinmore" is correct, in so much as the two different sources of Jewish Populations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no contradiction. There were native Jews then there were invading Jews from Europe.
> 
> You people are the ones who are confused.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You had an indigenous population with a Jewish component; and you had a immigrant population with a Jewish component.
> 
> *However, there was no invasion.*  That is simply an attempt to over dramatize the lawful immigration under Article 6.  _(The perpetual victim scenario by drama queens.) _
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How can you say that?



> *invasion*
> 
> 1.  vti enter country by military force: to enter a country by force with or as an army, especially in order to conquer it
> Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


The foreign Zionists with the help of Britain's military went to Palestine, kicked out the natives and started their own state.

What definition of invasion do you use?


----------



## amity1844

First, please read article:
Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
That will tell you where to get a copy of the study.  I have a membership on JSTOR and will go online and look for it in a bit.  

Then secondly watch film: 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQBoxvvBEgM]Palestinian people - Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

Then thirdly, accept truth.

David Ben Gurion:
"There is no doubt there is a lot of Jewish blood in the veins of the fellaheen.  They had to choose between their religion or their land, and they loved the land so much that they chose their land."


----------



## amity1844

> *invasion*
> 
> 1.  vti enter country by military force: to enter a country by force with or as an army, especially in order to conquer it
> Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign Zionists with the help of Britain's military went to Palestine, kicked out the natives and started their own state.
Click to expand...


...and the above concise description of events differs from colonialism in what exact way?


----------



## P F Tinmore

amity1844 said:


> *invasion*
> 
> 1.  vti enter country by military force: to enter a country by force with or as an army, especially in order to conquer it
> Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign Zionists with the help of Britain's military went to Palestine, kicked out the natives and started their own state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...and the above concise description of events differs from colonialism in what exact way?
Click to expand...


The Zionists picked the right people to help. Britain had centuries of experience in colonization.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, amity1844; _et al,_

Well, this is a bit skewed.



P F Tinmore said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign Zionists with the help of Britain's military went to Palestine, kicked out the natives and started their own state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and the above concise description of events differs from colonialism in what exact way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Zionists picked the right people to help. Britain had centuries of experience in colonization.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

First, during WWI, the territory we call Palestine, was enemy held territory of the Ottoman Empire.  Pursuant to the war effort, the Allied Forces, sought-out and engaged the enemy, pursuing the enemy force across the territory of the Empire, a portion of which was later to be called Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_.

Palestine was never colonized or under colonial rule.  It was placed under Mandate by order of the Allied Powers, in trusteeship through the League of Nations.  The only change to indigenous population was the Administration of the territory.  The indigenous population had no autonomous rule before the war, and they had no autonomous rule after the war.  Nothing changed in the type and kind of territorial control as it pertained to the indigenous population.

Overall, the Allied Powers, after the war, allowed for the rise in autonomous rule (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and eventually Israel), for the indigenous population - beyond what was allowed by the Empire over the previous eight centuries. 

Again, this talk of colonialism, invasion and whatnot, is a bunch of drama queen talk by a body of Arabs that simply play the perpetual victim.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MJB12741

What worries me is that if we educate the likes of Tinmore & Amity we may lose them on this board.  Then where else can we find so many laughs?






RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, amity1844; _et al,_
> 
> Well, this is a bit skewed.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and the above concise description of events differs from colonialism in what exact way?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists picked the right people to help. Britain had centuries of experience in colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, during WWI, the territory we call Palestine, was enemy held territory of the Ottoman Empire.  Pursuant to the war effort, the Allied Forces, sought-out and engaged the enemy, pursuing the enemy force across the territory of the Empire, a portion of which was later to be called Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_.
> 
> Palestine was never colonized or under colonial rule.  It was placed under Mandate by order of the Allied Powers, in trusteeship through the League of Nations.  The only change to indigenous population was the Administration of the territory.  The indigenous population had no autonomous rule before the war, and they had no autonomous rule after the war.  Nothing changed in the type and kind of territorial control as it pertained to the indigenous population.
> 
> Overall, the Allied Powers, after the war, allowed for the rise in autonomous rule (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and eventually Israel), for the indigenous population - beyond what was allowed by the Empire over the previous eight centuries.
> 
> Again, this talk of colonialism, invasion and whatnot, is a bunch of drama queen talk by a body of Arabs that simply play the perpetual victim.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, amity1844; _et al,_
> 
> Well, this is a bit skewed.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and the above concise description of events differs from colonialism in what exact way?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists picked the right people to help. Britain had centuries of experience in colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, during WWI, the territory we call Palestine, was enemy held territory of the Ottoman Empire.  Pursuant to the war effort, the Allied Forces, sought-out and engaged the enemy, pursuing the enemy force across the territory of the Empire, a portion of which was later to be called Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_.
> 
> Palestine was never colonized or under colonial rule.  It was placed under Mandate by order of the Allied Powers, in trusteeship through the League of Nations.  The only change to indigenous population was the Administration of the territory.  The indigenous population had no autonomous rule before the war, and they had no autonomous rule after the war.  Nothing changed in the type and kind of territorial control as it pertained to the indigenous population.
> 
> Overall, the Allied Powers, after the war, allowed for the rise in autonomous rule (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and eventually Israel), for the indigenous population - beyond what was allowed by the Empire over the previous eight centuries.
> 
> Again, this talk of colonialism, invasion and whatnot, is a bunch of drama queen talk by a body of Arabs that simply play the perpetual victim.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




> *trusteeship*


0

Key word. The territory was held in trust on behalf of the people. Not the Mexican people. Not the Canadian people. Not the European people.

It was held in trust for the Palestinian people.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, amity1844; _et al,_
> 
> Well, this is a bit skewed.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists picked the right people to help. Britain had centuries of experience in colonization.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First, during WWI, the territory we call Palestine, was enemy held territory of the Ottoman Empire.  Pursuant to the war effort, the Allied Forces, sought-out and engaged the enemy, pursuing the enemy force across the territory of the Empire, a portion of which was later to be called Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_.
> 
> Palestine was never colonized or under colonial rule.  It was placed under Mandate by order of the Allied Powers, in trusteeship through the League of Nations.  The only change to indigenous population was the Administration of the territory.  The indigenous population had no autonomous rule before the war, and they had no autonomous rule after the war.  Nothing changed in the type and kind of territorial control as it pertained to the indigenous population.
> 
> Overall, the Allied Powers, after the war, allowed for the rise in autonomous rule (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and eventually Israel), for the indigenous population - beyond what was allowed by the Empire over the previous eight centuries.
> 
> Again, this talk of colonialism, invasion and whatnot, is a bunch of drama queen talk by a body of Arabs that simply play the perpetual victim.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *trusteeship*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 0
> 
> Key word. The territory was held in trust on behalf of the people. Not the Mexican people. Not the Canadian people. Not the European people.
> 
> It was held in trust for the Palestinian people.
Click to expand...


Ok, but what does that have to do with your lie that Palestine was under colonial rule?


----------



## Roudy

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore;  _et al,_
> 
> Our friend "P F Tinmore" is correct, in so much as the two different sources of Jewish Populations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no contradiction. There were native Jews then there were invading Jews from Europe.
> 
> You people are the ones who are confused.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You had an indigenous population with a Jewish component; and you had a immigrant population with a Jewish component.
> 
> However, there was no invasion.  That is simply an attempt to over dramatize the lawful immigration under Article 6.  _(The perpetual victim scenario by drama queens.) _
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Correct. The same went with the Arabs.   You had a native and then a vast majority were invaders.  In other words majority of the Palestinians today are anything but "natives".  

Jordan was supposed to be Arab Palestine. They got that, and still attacked Israel.


----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Palestinians are Arabs identical to their Arab neighbors both culturally and genetically, most of which invaded the land in the 19th and 20th centuries. To say that Palestinians and Jews are the same is as ridiculous as saying all Arabs and Jews are the same.
> 
> It's the same bullshit over and over.  You guys need to get your stories straight.  One second the Jews are Europeans and the other the Jews are the same as the Palestinians. Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, there is a clear genetic distinction between Palestinians and neighboring Arabs.  The Palestinians alone show the haplotype of ancient Jews.
> 
> Look, this little piece of trouble making is the product of Israeli minds, and good solid scientific minds, too.  The research is a joint project of Hebrew University and Hadassah Medical Center.  They weren't trying to prove this, and were apparently set back on their tails when they got the result.  They broadcast their results on Israeli tv in 2009, where it caused a bit of an uproar to say the least.  The videos on You Tube have comments disabled, a sign that it is still causing trouble.  So don't blame me, I'm just the messenger.  And as I pointed out, Ben Gurion knew it too!
> 
> On the other hand, many Palestinians have known this all along without having the genetic studies to back it up and don't make a whole lot of fuss over it.  Several Palestinians told me this back in the 70s, it is part of their cultural memory, plus they know the history of the land, not just their history as a people.  I have been going around telling others for upward of 40 years as just an obvious leap of logic, because based on what I knew, it seemed pretty obvious to me.  Otherwise where did the Jews of post-Roman Israel/Palestine go?  Were they abducted by aliens?  So now we have proof positive.  As this show makes clear, the process of conversion has been going on for a very long time and some Palestinians are still observant Jews.
> 
> Genetic history is now offering some serious surprises.  For one thing, the Anglo Saxon invasion of England never happened.  Those genes are not found to any significant degree among the British past the east coast.  Furthemore, the Americas were settled by some group OTHER THAN so-called "native Americans" who came over via the Bering Sea land bridge 15000 years ago as we were all taught in elementary school.  "Gypsies" (Roma) are originally from India.  We are all just going to have to live with and be blown away by what new genetic studies are showing.
> 
> (Palestinian cohanim?!?!?  THAT surprised even me.)
Click to expand...

Actually wrong again!  There are other Arab / Muslim communities that have a higher number of genetic markers than the Palestinians. Including Kurds, as well as people who live in the Caucasus mountains. 

You can put lipstick on this pig all that you want, it still won't cut it. Palestinians are Arabs, no different than their neighbors.  

No...The Arabs aren't the true Jews, the Jews are.  Of course we have been through this argument a thousand times.  And each time you guys have been embarrassed and humiliated.


----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> *invasion*
> 
> 1.  vti enter country by military force: to enter a country by force with or as an army, especially in order to conquer it
> Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign Zionists with the help of Britain's military went to Palestine, kicked out the natives and started their own state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...and the above concise description of events differs from colonialism in what exact way?
Click to expand...

It applies to Muslim animals who committed genocide and ethnic cleansing on the ancient Jews  of Hebron. It was after this event that Jews created militias to protect themselves from said animals.  Of course this is nothing new, this is what Muslims have done throughout history and are continuing to do.  Let's hear it from the horse's mouth:

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=4RJRSA2XtrE"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=4RJRSA2XtrE[/ame]


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You read so much into an isolated word.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *trusteeship*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Key word. The territory was held in trust on behalf of the people. Not the Mexican people. Not the Canadian people. Not the European people.
> 
> It was held in trust for the Palestinian people.
Click to expand...

*(OBSERVATION)*



			
				Series of League of Nations Publications VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1 said:
			
		

> The nations upon which such *powers of guardianship are conferred exercise them "as Mandatories on behalf of the League"*. In other words, the administration of these territories is delegated to them. This involves an obligation on their part to render account of their administration to the League of Nations.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ LoN/1945.VI.A.1  30 April 1945



*(COMMENT)*

In all "trusts" - there are "obligations."  As is often paraphrased from the FDR speech for the Jefferson Day Dinner in 1945:  "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility."

First, the Mandate was on behalf of the League of Nations, and NOT (repeat) NOT on behalf of the people of Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_; or any other individual state.  

Second, the obligation of the Mandatory is to the League of Nations:



			
				Series of League of Nations Publications VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1 said:
			
		

> The acceptance by a nation of this mission carries with it certain obligations and responsibilities established by law. Like guardians in civil law, they must exercise their authority in the interests of their wards -- that is to say, of the peoples which are regarded as minors -- and must maintain an entirely disinterested attitude in their dealings with them. The territories with the administration of which they are entrusted must not be exploited by them for their own profit.



There is no question in my mind - that at the end of the day - come the termination of the Mandate, that the inhabitants had reached a more advanced stage of development and their independence could, in principle, be recognized by the Covenant itself; and that there be the establishment of the Jewish national home in the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine and internationally --- all Jews willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

There are a few points to be made here.


The Mandatory (the UK in this case), is subordinate to the Covenant (the League of Nations), just the dame as an appointed Trustee is subordinate to the will of the Court in civil law.  The Mandate itself is not written in stone, but pliable to the will of the Covenant.


The obligation is to the Covenant, with the idea that the best interest of the people are looked after, yet not always what the indigenous population may want (parental oversight).


You will notice that the Mandate speaks of "self-governing institutions" (plural).  Meaning that more than one institution may be established.


And finally, "self-governance" was never established geographically (except for Trans Jordan), nor was there a specification on how to establish a Jewish National Home.  There was never an outline establish limiting the scope and nature of either how to affect a Jewish National Home or self-governing institutions.  (That would not come until the Resolution of 1947.)

Of course, through the process - no one can argue successfully that the Arab indigenous population did not have a right to a self-governing institution.  But the expanse, scope and nature of such was never defined until 1947. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## TemplarKormac

amity1844 said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already "proven" it, you just won't read what I have posted.  Actually I didn't prove it, scientists at Hadassah or Hebrew University did.  At least 80% of the Palestinians' genes, haplotypes, is identical with ancient Jews of the Roman period.  Among Jewish Israelis, the actual percentage of shared haplogroups with ancient Jews is lower, 72%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you explain the Ashkenazi Jews then? According to the Bray Study in 2010, they more closely aligned with Europeans than Middle Easterners. As least 55% share their genome with Europeans. I'd like to see you explain that one away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I understand what you are saying, then that is not the finding of this study.  The study shows that Ashkenazi Jews (Ashkenazim) are more closely related to ancient Judea Jews than are Mizrahim, and therefore more closely related to Palestinians than to Mizrahim.
Click to expand...


Not even close.

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European


----------



## MJB12741

Shhh!  Avoid any truth.  You'll hurt Tinmore & Amity's feelings.





TemplarKormac said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you explain the Ashkenazi Jews then? According to the Bray Study in 2010, they more closely aligned with Europeans than Middle Easterners. As least 55% share their genome with Europeans. I'd like to see you explain that one away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I understand what you are saying, then that is not the finding of this study.  The study shows that Ashkenazi Jews (Ashkenazim) are more closely related to ancient Judea Jews than are Mizrahim, and therefore more closely related to Palestinians than to Mizrahim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even close.
> 
> Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
Click to expand...


----------



## amity1844

So I reiterate, Palestinians are NOT genetically European, they're genetically Jewish, so what does that do to the Law of Return?

Besides, your article is talking about mitochondrial DNA, which is the maternal lineage, whereas the Hebrew University study is analyzing Y-chromosome DNA, the paternal side.  So both articles can easily be right and probably are.  But I do notice this article is older, so more recent analysis may have made this obsolete.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> So I reiterate, Palestinians are NOT genetically European, they're genetically Jewish, so what does that do to the Law of Return?
> 
> Besides, your article is talking about mitochondrial DNA, which is the maternal lineage, whereas the Hebrew University study is analyzing Y-chromosome DNA, the paternal side.  So both articles can easily be right and probably are.  But I do notice this article is older, so more recent analysis may have made this obsolete.


Doesn't matter.

The Jews themselves define who is Jewish and who is not.

The Jews themselves define whose membership card is 'current' and whose is not.


----------



## amity1844

Kondor3 said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I reiterate, Palestinians are NOT genetically European, they're genetically Jewish, so what does that do to the Law of Return?
> 
> Besides, your article is talking about mitochondrial DNA, which is the maternal lineage, whereas the Hebrew University study is analyzing Y-chromosome DNA, the paternal side.  So both articles can easily be right and probably are.  But I do notice this article is older, so more recent analysis may have made this obsolete.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> The Jews themselves define who is Jewish and who is not.
> 
> The Jews themselves define whose membership card is 'current' and whose is not.
Click to expand...


My point e-x-a-c-t-l-y.  If Palestinians are Jewish, and it appears they are, under the definition employed by the state of Israel, then they now should be allowed to become part of the definition committee.


----------



## TemplarKormac

amity1844 said:


> So I reiterate, Palestinians are NOT genetically European, they're genetically Jewish, so what does that do to the Law of Return?



Plenty. The Palestinian Right of Return is debunked.


----------



## MJB12741

Bet you Zionists didn't know Hamas is a Jewish organization.  Ya gotta love Amity. Heh Heh!





amity1844 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I reiterate, Palestinians are NOT genetically European, they're genetically Jewish, so what does that do to the Law of Return?
> 
> Besides, your article is talking about mitochondrial DNA, which is the maternal lineage, whereas the Hebrew University study is analyzing Y-chromosome DNA, the paternal side.  So both articles can easily be right and probably are.  But I do notice this article is older, so more recent analysis may have made this obsolete.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> The Jews themselves define who is Jewish and who is not.
> 
> The Jews themselves define whose membership card is 'current' and whose is not.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point e-x-a-c-t-l-y.  If Palestinians are Jewish, and it appears they are, under the definition employed by the state of Israel, then they now should be allowed to become part of the definition committee.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sally

MJB12741 said:


> Bet you Zionists didn't know Hamas is a Jewish organization.  Ya gotta love Amity. Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> The Jews themselves define who is Jewish and who is not.
> 
> The Jews themselves define whose membership card is 'current' and whose is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My point e-x-a-c-t-l-y.  If Palestinians are Jewish, and it appears they are, under the definition employed by the state of Israel, then they now should be allowed to become part of the definition committee.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I'm laughing too.  Of course some of these Arabs at one time were Jewish, the same as you find in each group of people whose ancestors might at one time belonged to a different religion.  In fact, a while back I was reading that some of the Arabs wanted to convert to Judaism.  Meanwhile, though, most of these Arabs never had Jewish ancestors, and it is funny someone even claiming that they did.  Amity, as a supposedly good Christian woman, should try to ascertain how many of the Muslims in Egypt had Christian ancestors.  After all, the area was teeming with Christians before the Muslims left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded Egypt.   Perhaps she can convince the Egyptian government to have a mass conversion ceremony to bring these Muslims back to the religion of their ancient ancestors who were the early Christians.


----------



## amity1844

READ, READ, READ before you SPOUT, SPOUT, SPOUT and make a fool of yourself. This is an ISRAELI study, only Israelis are talking.  No Palestinian or any other flavor of Arab has made any claims about being Jewish.  This is ISRAELIS saying they are genetically Jewish.  And the claim tht the Israelis are making is that among Palestinians ONLY, not among other Arabs, their DNA is 85% identical with ancient Jewish DNA.  That is a higher percentage than the DNA of Ashkenazim.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I reiterate, Palestinians are NOT genetically European, they're genetically Jewish, so what does that do to the Law of Return?
> 
> Besides, your article is talking about mitochondrial DNA, which is the maternal lineage, whereas the Hebrew University study is analyzing Y-chromosome DNA, the paternal side.  So both articles can easily be right and probably are.  But I do notice this article is older, so more recent analysis may have made this obsolete.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> The Jews themselves define who is Jewish and who is not.
> 
> The Jews themselves define whose membership card is 'current' and whose is not.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point e-x-a-c-t-l-y.  If Palestinians are Jewish, and it appears they are, under the definition employed by the state of Israel, then they now should be allowed to become part of the definition committee.
Click to expand...

Nope.

The Jews decide.

The ones currently practicing the faith known as Judaism.

The REAL Jews.

Not the (partial, vestigial) descendants of cowards who broke faith with the Convenant.

The REAL Jews.

Who have decided that the Palestinians' membership card as Jews expired, centuries ago.

They've also decided not to invite the Palestinians to renew.

Why?

Because they can, and because they wish to, and because they see doing so as being in their own best interests and safety, and because there is nobody to stop them.


----------



## amity1844

There are laws already in place that decide who is Jewish, and Palestinians are not excluded.  By Israel's definition they are included.  

By realistically I don't think that will happen.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> READ, READ, READ before you SPOUT, SPOUT, SPOUT and make a fool of yourself. This is an ISRAELI study, only Israelis are talking.  No Palestinian or any other flavor of Arab has made any claims about being Jewish.  This is ISRAELIS saying they are genetically Jewish.  And the claim tht the Israelis are making is that among Palestinians ONLY, not among other Arabs, their DNA is 85% identical with ancient Jewish DNA.  That is a higher percentage than the DNA of Ashkenazim.



Oh really???  Why not also give us the rebuttal to this Israeli study that was also done.    Yes, Amity thinks that loads of Palestinian Arabs showed up and gave samples of their DNA.  Why don't we both, Amity and I, have the test done so that it will show that we have ancestors who originally came out of Africa.  By the way, Amity, two Irish American guys sent in samples of their DNA, and they were told of this African connection and that Scotland is named after Queens Scotia of Northern Africa.  Gee, probably even everyone in the Middle East has this African connection also.


----------



## RoccoR

_et al,_

Consider for the moment that:  DNA doesnt determine race. Society does.

"We shouldnt deceive ourselves; how we define race does not just reflect biology, it reflects culture, history, and politics as well."​
v/r
R


----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> READ, READ, READ before you SPOUT, SPOUT, SPOUT and make a fool of yourself. This is an ISRAELI study, only Israelis are talking.  No Palestinian or any other flavor of Arab has made any claims about being Jewish.  This is ISRAELIS saying they are genetically Jewish.  And the claim tht the Israelis are making is that among Palestinians ONLY, not among other Arabs, their DNA is 85% identical with ancient Jewish DNA.  That is a higher percentage than the DNA of Ashkenazim.


You keep blabbering the same crap that Monty used to before he went out in flames.  Can they give you guys a different playbook before setting you loose here?  

As mentioned before, there are more genetic similarities in several other groups such as the Kurds and those from the Caucasus.  Which makes the Palestinians an after thought.


----------



## Billo_Really

TemplarKormac said:


> Plenty. The Palestinian Right of Return is debunked.


If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty. The Palestinian Right of Return is debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
Click to expand...

Because the Jews have the muscle and the allies to enforce their will, and the Palestinians don't.


----------



## amity1844

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty. The Palestinian Right of Return is debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the Jews have the muscle and the allies to enforce their will, and the Palestinians don't.
Click to expand...


That is changing so fast though, isn't it?  Only one ally left, and even that might be gone soon.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  Bless you for being so funny.  It feels so good to laugh.  Hey & did you know human DNA is 98% the same as that of Apes?  Are you an Ape?





amity1844 said:


> READ, READ, READ before you SPOUT, SPOUT, SPOUT and make a fool of yourself. This is an ISRAELI study, only Israelis are talking.  No Palestinian or any other flavor of Arab has made any claims about being Jewish.  This is ISRAELIS saying they are genetically Jewish.  And the claim tht the Israelis are making is that among Palestinians ONLY, not among other Arabs, their DNA is 85% identical with ancient Jewish DNA.  That is a higher percentage than the DNA of Ashkenazim.


----------



## Roudy

Billo_Really said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty. The Palestinian Right of Return is debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
Click to expand...

If they were to return to the place they came from 70 years ago, that would be Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq where most of them came (invaded) from.


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> _et al,_
> 
> Consider for the moment that:  DNA doesnt determine race. Society does.
> 
> "We shouldnt deceive ourselves; how we define race does not just reflect biology, it reflects culture, history, and politics as well."​
> v/r
> R



Thank you for posting this Rocco.

This is exactly what I wanted to say but I just couldn't find the words to put it together.


----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Jews have the muscle and the allies to enforce their will, and the Palestinians don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is changing so fast though, isn't it?  Only one ally left, and even that might be gone soon.
Click to expand...

Really?  That light at the end of your tunnel is actually an oncoming train.  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Jews have the muscle and the allies to enforce their will, and the Palestinians don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is changing so fast though, isn't it?  Only one ally left, and even that might be gone soon.
Click to expand...

Not really.

The temporary occupant of the White House - who will be gone on January 20, 2017 - will not be able to reverse US foreign policy in connection with Israel.

Not unless he wants to lose his tenuous grip on the Senate, to match the 'shellacking' he took in connection with the House in the 2010 mid-terms.

All Israel has to do is to ride-out the remainder of Obama's presidency, and then things immediately being to go back to normal again.

And, in any physical rumble between Israel and her Muslim neighbors, much of Europe will remain neutral, while most of the rest of it will back Israel, when push comes to shove.

Mostly because the Euros like Jews better than they like Muslims.

Just like us.


----------



## MJB12741

There lies a big problem.  Those Zionists in Israel just keep on provoking the Palestinians into hatred & violence with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in Israel.  But not once have those Zionists even tried to help free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on them.







Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty. The Palestinian Right of Return is debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they were to return to the place they came from 70 years ago, that would be Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq where most of them came (invaded) from.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

amity1844 said:


> I think this is really a cute article:
> Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
> 
> Actually I don't know why this woman is so surprised by the realization that Palestinians descended from the Jews, and don't really think it is "politically incorrect" to acknowledge this in the middle east.  Palestinians have long known it and several told me this decades before this study took place.  I think it is maybe just a shock to Jews.
> 
> Palestinian cohanim?!?!?!?!?  The sky is falling.
> 
> Billo - I love your tag line!


There are some who say the Pals are the direct descendants of the Israelites. I don't know.  I've only been following this  Israeli/Palestinian issue for the past 5-6 years.  Apart from that, the only other knowledge I had of this conflict, was when I watched the  whole thing go down during the '72 Munich Olympics as a kid.

I'll admit, I don't care about Palestinian's and I certainly care even less about Israeli's.  But the thing that drew me into this subject, was when I started noticing a whole lotta Israeli ass-kissing going on.  I mean, it's over the top!  And I'm the kind of person who doesn't kiss anyone's ass.  I won't say anything behind your back, I wouldn't say to your face.  So, the more I got to know these Zionists, the more interested I became on this subject.  It's not often you find people who try to debate with the logic of a rodeo clown.

As an example, they say things, but are unable to explain why they say them.  They've  called me a "jew hater" many times, but have never been able to tell me, why they think I would hate Jews?  It's not like I don't know the answer.  The reality is, that's their standard response to anyone criticizing Israeli foreign policy. I doesn't matter what the subject is or how valid the criticism, that's the response you get 90% of the time.

Unfortunately for them, I find their vitriol entertaining as hell.  It's my Disneyland!


----------



## amity1844

Billo, you are a very insightful lady.


----------



## jillian

Kondor3 said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Jews have the muscle and the allies to enforce their will, and the Palestinians don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is changing so fast though, isn't it?  Only one ally left, and even that might be gone soon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really.
> 
> The temporary occupant of the White House - who will be gone on January 20, 2017 - will not be able to reverse US foreign policy in connection with Israel.
> 
> Not unless he wants to lose his tenuous grip on the Senate, to match the 'shellacking' he took in connection with the House in the 2010 mid-terms.
> 
> All Israel has to do is to ride-out the remainder of Obama's presidency, and then things immediately being to go back to normal again.
> 
> And, in any physical rumble between Israel and her Muslim neighbors, much of Europe will remain neutral, while most of the rest of it will back Israel, when push comes to shove.
> 
> Mostly because the Euros like Jews better than they like Muslims.
> 
> Just like us.
Click to expand...


the PRESIDENT has not tried to reverse US policy regarding Israel. 

as to the rest of your post... probably true.


----------



## Sally

MJB12741 said:


> LMAO!  Bless you for being so funny.  It feels so good to laugh.  Hey & did you know human DNA is 98% the same as that of Apes?  Are you an Ape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> READ, READ, READ before you SPOUT, SPOUT, SPOUT and make a fool of yourself. This is an ISRAELI study, only Israelis are talking.  No Palestinian or any other flavor of Arab has made any claims about being Jewish.  This is ISRAELIS saying they are genetically Jewish.  And the claim tht the Israelis are making is that among Palestinians ONLY, not among other Arabs, their DNA is 85% identical with ancient Jewish DNA.  That is a higher percentage than the DNA of Ashkenazim.
Click to expand...


Gee, MJB, I am reading like she said, and I came up with this.  

Palestinian Campaign for the Academic & Cultural Boycott of Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> I know more about the IDF and its sometimes cruelty than 1000 stories of breaking the silence. I lived among IDF soldiers from the day I was born and tasted the cruelty of the system.


If the system is cruel, it's not a "sometimes" problem, it's a "systemic" one.

And systemic problems require immediate attention, something you're not willing to do.




Lipush said:


> "Breaking the silence" tells me nothing new. So you can take that site and shove it.


It's not what it tells you, it's what it tells me, about you.

You're reactions to some of their comments, say a lot about you as a person.

Especially the ones where you have "no" reaction, or refuse to even comment on what they said, like their use of _*"johnnies".*_


----------



## amity1844

I didn't read beyond the first paragraph, that is enough to give it away.  FAKE!


----------



## Billo_Really

amity1844 said:


> Billo, you are a very insightful lady.


Not if you ask my ex-girlfriend.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> I didn't read beyond the first paragraph, that is enough to give it away.  FAKE!



Then I am sure you realize that so many think of what you post as FAKE and don't even bother reading all of it.  The first paragraph of your FAKE stuff gives it away.


----------



## amity1844

nope, actually I don't believe you. To my knowledge I have had a good effect on people.  And it is all genuine.  People can tell.  Like I said, trying to squelch dissent just makes Israel look totalitatrian, which it is.


----------



## MJB12741

I know.  She is a blast.  How can we get more like her here?





Sally said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!  Bless you for being so funny.  It feels so good to laugh.  Hey & did you know human DNA is 98% the same as that of Apes?  Are you an Ape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> READ, READ, READ before you SPOUT, SPOUT, SPOUT and make a fool of yourself. This is an ISRAELI study, only Israelis are talking.  No Palestinian or any other flavor of Arab has made any claims about being Jewish.  This is ISRAELIS saying they are genetically Jewish.  And the claim tht the Israelis are making is that among Palestinians ONLY, not among other Arabs, their DNA is 85% identical with ancient Jewish DNA.  That is a higher percentage than the DNA of Ashkenazim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee, MJB, I am reading like she said, and I came up with this.
> 
> Palestinian Campaign for the Academic & Cultural Boycott of Israel.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Aw Billo.  I hope you meet Miss Right.





Billo_Really said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo, you are a very insightful lady.
> 
> 
> 
> Not if you ask my ex-girlfriend.
Click to expand...


----------



## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is really a cute article:
> Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
> 
> Actually I don't know why this woman is so surprised by the realization that Palestinians descended from the Jews, and don't really think it is "politically incorrect" to acknowledge this in the middle east.  Palestinians have long known it and several told me this decades before this study took place.  I think it is maybe just a shock to Jews.
> 
> Palestinian cohanim?!?!?!?!?  The sky is falling.
> 
> Billo - I love your tag line!
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Pals are the direct descendants of the Israelites. I don't know.  I've only been following this  Israeli/Palestinian issue for the past 5-6 years.  Apart from that, the only other knowledge I had of this conflict, was when I watched the  whole thing go down during the '72 Munich Olympics as a kid.
> 
> I'll admit, I don't care about Palestinian's and I certainly care even less about Israeli's.  But the thing that drew me into this subject, was when I started noticing a whole lotta Israeli ass-kissing going on.  I mean, it's over the top!  And I'm the kind of person who doesn't kiss anyone's ass.  I won't say anything behind your back, I wouldn't say to your face.  So, the more I got to know these Zionists, the more interested I became on this subject.  It's not often you find people who try to debate with the logic of a rodeo clown.
> 
> As an example, they say things, but are unable to explain why they say them.  They've  called me a "jew hater" many times, but have never been able to tell me, why they think I would hate Jews?  It's not like I don't know the answer.  The reality is, that's their standard response to anyone criticizing Israeli foreign policy. I doesn't matter what the subject is or how valid the criticism, that's the response you get 90% of the time.
> 
> Unfortunately for them, I find their vitriol entertaining as hell.  It's my Disneyland!
Click to expand...


Over the top?
You're just some dumb ass pussy living THOUSANDS of miles from the action.
Move to a town 2 miles from some Arab bomb factory town and we'll see how your "over the top" point of view changes very quickly.


----------



## Indeependent

amity1844 said:


> nope, actually I don't believe you. To my knowledge I have had a good effect on people.  And it is all genuine.  People can tell.  Like I said, trying to squelch dissent just makes Israel look totalitatrian, which it is.



Ah, now Miss WASP declares Israel a totalitarian nation.


----------



## Billo_Really

Indeependent said:


> Over the top?
> You're just some dumb ass pussy living THOUSANDS of miles from the action.
> Move to a town 2 miles from some Arab bomb factory town and we'll see how your "over the top" point of view changes very quickly.


Perfect!  Now you can prove what I said was true.

Why am I a dumbass?


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Aw Billo.  I hope you meet Miss Right.


Or at least, Miss Right-Now!


----------



## Billo_Really

Sally said:


> Then I am sure you realize that so many think of what you post as FAKE and don't even bother reading all of it.  The first paragraph of your FAKE stuff gives it away.


What's fake, is you acting like you know what others are thinking.


----------



## amity1844

Indeependent said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope, actually I don't believe you. To my knowledge I have had a good effect on people.  And it is all genuine.  People can tell.  Like I said, trying to squelch dissent just makes Israel look totalitatrian, which it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, now Miss WASP declares Israel a totalitarian nation.
Click to expand...


That too of course, but mainly I am criticizing some people's way of addressing valid criticism.  It is as if their handler isn't available so they don't know what to say, since independent thought is not their forte, so they just fire off a vague meaningless personal attack, like "oh, you must work for Al-Qaeda" or "when did you stop hating Jews" that is so dumb, so rote, I think they actually get it off a list of one-liner comebacks provided by Israel, no typing required.  It discredits the cause they are attempting to defend.


----------



## Indeependent

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over the top?
> You're just some dumb ass pussy living THOUSANDS of miles from the action.
> Move to a town 2 miles from some Arab bomb factory town and we'll see how your "over the top" point of view changes very quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect!  Now you can prove what I said was true.
> 
> Why am I a dumbass?
Click to expand...


I already explained why you are a dumb ass...
Move to a town 2 miles from some Arab bomb factory town and we'll see how your "over the top" point of view changes very quickly.

I should have specified, that you are a dumb ass sitting on your ass at a computer.


----------



## MHunterB

amity1844 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I reiterate, Palestinians are NOT genetically European, they're genetically Jewish, so what does that do to the Law of Return?
> 
> Besides, your article is talking about mitochondrial DNA, which is the maternal lineage, whereas the Hebrew University study is analyzing Y-chromosome DNA, the paternal side.  So both articles can easily be right and probably are.  But I do notice this article is older, so more recent analysis may have made this obsolete.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> The Jews themselves define who is Jewish and who is not.
> 
> The Jews themselves define whose membership card is 'current' and whose is not.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point e-x-a-c-t-l-y.  If Palestinians are Jewish, *and it appears they are*, under the definition employed by the state of Israel, then they now should be allowed to become part of the definition committee.
Click to expand...


It is obvious that they are NOT 'Jewish' under the definition employed either by the State of Israel or Jewish religious law.   Not only that, they don't seem to have the slightest desire to be Jewish, and in fact Arab and other Muslim people routinely accuse whoever they wish to demonize of being 'a Jew'......


----------



## amity1844

Billo_Really said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo, you are a very insightful lady.
> 
> 
> 
> Not if you ask my ex-girlfriend.
Click to expand...


Dude, uh, guy, mmm, man!  Sorry Billo.  Fortunately we live in an age where gender is a less sensitive topic anyway.


----------



## MHunterB

amity1844 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope, actually I don't believe you. To my knowledge I have had a good effect on people.  And it is all genuine.  People can tell.  Like I said, trying to squelch dissent just makes Israel look totalitatrian, which it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, now Miss WASP declares Israel a totalitarian nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That too of course, but mainly I am criticizing some people's way of addressing valid criticism.  It is as if their handler isn't available so they don't know what to say, since independent thought is not their forte, so they just fire off a vague meaningless personal attack, like "oh, you must work for Al-Qaeda" or "when did you stop hating Jews" that is so dumb, so rote, I think they actually get it off a list of one-liner comebacks provided by Israel, no typing required.  It discredits the cause they are attempting to defend.
Click to expand...


I think the error there is your assumption that whatever you have to say automatically constitutes 'valid' criticism......


----------



## amity1844

Sally said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read beyond the first paragraph, that is enough to give it away.  FAKE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I am sure you realize that so many think of what you post as FAKE and don't even bother reading all of it.  The first paragraph of your FAKE stuff gives it away.
Click to expand...


Here again, it has to do with vetting your sources.  Did you not even notice that that website has been hijacked?  No?


----------



## MHunterB

amity1844 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo, you are a very insightful lady.
> 
> 
> 
> Not if you ask my ex-girlfriend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, uh, guy, mmm, man!  Sorry Billo.  Fortunately we live in an age where gender is a less sensitive topic anyway.
Click to expand...


We all know that if Billo were female , 'lady' is not a word which would ever be applicable......


----------



## amity1844

That certainly comes off as ridiculous.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read beyond the first paragraph, that is enough to give it away.  FAKE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I am sure you realize that so many think of what you post as FAKE and don't even bother reading all of it.  The first paragraph of your FAKE stuff gives it away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here again, it has to do with vetting your sources.  Did you not even notice that that website has been hijacked?  No?
Click to expand...


Yeah, Amity vets all the sources, and when it is one she doesn't like, it is FAKE in her mind, never once thinking that many think her sources are FAKE and that Arab Propaganda is the best in the world.  They probably learned from those old Nazis who went to the Middle East after World War II and wrote propaganda for the Arabs.


----------



## amity1844

> It is obvious that they are NOT 'Jewish' under the definition employed either by the State of Israel or Jewish religious law.   Not only that, they don't seem to have the slightest desire to be Jewish, and in fact Arab and other Muslim people routinely accuse whoever they wish to demonize of being 'a Jew'......



They ARE Jews under the definition Israel uses, which is based on nothing but ancestry and self-identification.  Some Israeli statesman once said "A Jew is whoever says he is."  That, plus ancestry.  
WANT to be Jewish?  Most would not want to be practicing Jews, of course not, but it does expose the bankruptcy of the Law of Return.


----------



## MJB12741

Yeah but she sure is fun to play with due to her insistance that we do so.





Sally said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then I am sure you realize that so many think of what you post as FAKE and don't even bother reading all of it.  The first paragraph of your FAKE stuff gives it away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, it has to do with vetting your sources.  Did you not even notice that that website has been hijacked?  No?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, Amity vets all the sources, and when it is one she doesn't like, it is FAKE in her mind, never once thinking that many think her sources are FAKE and that Arab Propaganda is the best in the world.  They probably learned from those old Nazis who went to the Middle East after World War II and wrote propaganda for the Arabs.
Click to expand...


----------



## amity1844

> Plenty. The Palestinian Right of Return is debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they were to return to the place they came from 70 years ago, that would be Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq where most of them came (invaded) from.
Click to expand...

Israeli scientists at Hebrew University and Hadassah Medical Center have debunked that bunk, remember?  They come from right there in Palestine.


----------



## amity1844

toastman said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _et al,_
> 
> Consider for the moment that:  DNA doesnt determine race. Society does.
> 
> "We shouldnt deceive ourselves; how we define race does not just reflect biology, it reflects culture, history, and politics as well."​
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting this Rocco.
> 
> This is exactly what I wanted to say but I just couldn't find the words to put it together.
Click to expand...

I agree with you both, and that is so important.  It is not about race, it is about ancestry.  And that is all the study proves, specifically that Palestinians descended from the ancient Jews.  That is all.  The only real value is that it exposes Israel's Right of Return policies.  

I would love to see 9 million Palestinians make application for aliyah, though.  Hope they call a press conference first, it would be a publicity coup.


----------



## MJB12741

Hey Amity, did you know that Snoopy shot down the Red Baron?  Go tell your neighbors.





amity1844 said:


> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
> 
> 
> 
> If they were to return to the place they came from 70 years ago, that would be Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq where most of them came (invaded) from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli scientists at Hebrew University and Hadassah Medical Center have debunked that bunk, remember?  They come from right there in Palestine.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> If Jews can return after 2000 years, why can't the Pals return after 70?
> 
> 
> 
> If they were to return to the place they came from 70 years ago, that would be Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Iraq where most of them came (invaded) from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israeli scientists at Hebrew University and Hadassah Medical Center have debunked that bunk, remember?  They come from right there in Palestine.
Click to expand...


If you live anywhere in the West, Amity, you will notice immigrants coming in from all over the world.  The British officials in the area reported back to Great Britain, and that is why Winston Churchill stated that the Arabs were coming in droves to Israel from their poor surrounding countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  Isn't it strange how after World War II, there were millions and millions of people who had to move thousands of miles from their homes, learn a new language and culture, got on with their lives and never set about whining about their lot and neither did they have supporters either whining about their situation.  I wonder who is whining now about the two and a half million Syrian refugees or is it more important to whine about the "Palestinians?"


----------



## MHunterB

amity1844 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read beyond the first paragraph, that is enough to give it away.  FAKE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I am sure you realize that so many think of what you post as FAKE and don't even bother reading all of it.  The first paragraph of your FAKE stuff gives it away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here again, it has to do with vetting your sources.  Did you not even notice that that website has been hijacked?  No?
Click to expand...


LMAO!  Yes, we all saw what kind of a corner you painted yourself into by not vetting your own sources.......  Good on you for admitting I told you the plain truth about David Irving, though.

Although some have suggested your gesture of removing that link was pretty self-serving.......


----------



## MHunterB

amity1844 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _et al,_
> 
> Consider for the moment that:  DNA doesnt determine race. Society does.
> 
> "We shouldnt deceive ourselves; how we define race does not just reflect biology, it reflects culture, history, and politics as well."​
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting this Rocco.
> 
> This is exactly what I wanted to say but I just couldn't find the words to put it together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you both, and that is so important.  It is not about race, it is about ancestry.  And that is all the study proves, specifically that Palestinians descended from the ancient Jews.  That is all.  The only real value is that it exposes Israel's Right of Return policies.
> 
> I would love to see 9 million Palestinians make application for aliyah, though.  Hope they call a press conference first, it would be a publicity coup.
Click to expand...


Just what are you fantasizing that it "exposes", Hostility?


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _et al,_
> 
> Consider for the moment that:  DNA doesnt determine race. Society does.
> 
> "We shouldnt deceive ourselves; how we define race does not just reflect biology, it reflects culture, history, and politics as well."​
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting this Rocco.
> 
> This is exactly what I wanted to say but I just couldn't find the words to put it together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you both, and that is so important.  It is not about race, it is about ancestry.  And that is all the study proves, specifically that Palestinians descended from the ancient Jews.  That is all.  The only real value is that it exposes Israel's Right of Return policies.
> 
> I would love to see 9 million Palestinians make application for aliyah, though.  Hope they call a press conference first, it would be a publicity coup.
Click to expand...


I think everyone realizes that Amity would just love to see all those millions of Palestinians let in so that her friends can govern Israel.  I don't think it will happen though because the Israelis don't want to destroy themselves to have a Muslim takeover.


----------



## amity1844

> I'm laughing too.  Of course some of these Arabs at one time were Jewish, the same as you find in each group of people whose ancestors might at one time belonged to a different religion.  In fact, a while back I was reading that some of the Arabs wanted to convert to Judaism.  Meanwhile, though, most of these Arabs never had Jewish ancestors, and it is funny someone even claiming that they did.  Amity, as a supposedly good Christian woman, should try to ascertain how many of the Muslims in Egypt had Christian ancestors.  After all, the area was teeming with Christians before the Muslims left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded Egypt.   Perhaps she can convince the Egyptian government to have a mass conversion ceremony to bring these Muslims back to the religion of their ancient ancestors who were the early Christians.



Not some.... MOST.  Palestinians have MORE Jewish ancestry than Ashkenazi Jews in fact.  That's pretty Jewish.  Other Arabs have little to none.  If someone does a genetic study of Coptic Christians I will let you know first.  I would like to know the answer to that, too.


----------



## amity1844

> The temporary occupant of the White House - who will be gone on January 20, 2017 - will not be able to reverse US foreign policy in connection with Israel.
> 
> Not unless he wants to lose his tenuous grip on the Senate, to match the 'shellacking' he took in connection with the House in the 2010 mid-terms.
> 
> All Israel has to do is to ride-out the remainder of Obama's presidency, and then things immediately being to go back to normal again.
> 
> And, in any physical rumble between Israel and her Muslim neighbors, much of Europe will remain neutral, while most of the rest of it will back Israel, when push comes to shove.
> 
> Mostly because the Euros like Jews better than they like Muslims.
> 
> Just like us.


I didn't mean Obama, I meant the rest of the world.  Israel is down to one supporter and of course it is the one that gives it BILLIONS of dollars every year that we really do need here.  Israel used to get more "aid" every year than every other country in the world rolled together, which is why they have been able to build the juggernaut they have.


----------



## amity1844

> Just what are you fantasizing that it "exposes", Hostility?


Look up Law of Return in Wikipedia or someplace and you'll understand.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> I'm laughing too.  Of course some of these Arabs at one time were Jewish, the same as you find in each group of people whose ancestors might at one time belonged to a different religion.  In fact, a while back I was reading that some of the Arabs wanted to convert to Judaism.  Meanwhile, though, most of these Arabs never had Jewish ancestors, and it is funny someone even claiming that they did.  Amity, as a supposedly good Christian woman, should try to ascertain how many of the Muslims in Egypt had Christian ancestors.  After all, the area was teeming with Christians before the Muslims left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded Egypt.   Perhaps she can convince the Egyptian government to have a mass conversion ceremony to bring these Muslims back to the religion of their ancient ancestors who were the early Christians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not some.... MOST.  Palestinians have MORE Jewish ancestry than Ashkenazi Jews in fact.  That's pretty Jewish.  Other Arabs have little to none.  If someone does a genetic study of Coptic Christians I will let you know first.  I would like to know the answer to that, too.
Click to expand...


Why not direct us to a really top expert in this field, Amity, to prove what you are saying?  Something big like this would be in some important medical journal, not some piece some anti-Israel guy came up with?  Surely you should be able to do this for us.


----------



## amity1844

MJB12741 said:


> I'm still waiting for someone to educate me as to when Israel's land since antiquity became this "Palestinian land" that they say Israel is stealing?


Palestine is a territorial designation for the land between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean.  So even when its Israel, its still Palestine!  And yes, Israel is appropriating land every single day, and not paying for it.  They don't even need a reason.


----------



## amity1844

> Why not direct us to a really top expert in this field, Amity, to prove what you are saying?  Something big like this would be in some important medical journal, not some piece some anti-Israel guy came up with?  Surely you should be able to do this for us.


No, you get off your lazy butt and do your own research.
Ariella Oppenheim, Hadassah Medical Center, Hebrew University.  If you got out of high school you ought to be able to look that up.  Go to the library and they'll help you.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> The temporary occupant of the White House - who will be gone on January 20, 2017 - will not be able to reverse US foreign policy in connection with Israel.
> 
> Not unless he wants to lose his tenuous grip on the Senate, to match the 'shellacking' he took in connection with the House in the 2010 mid-terms.
> 
> All Israel has to do is to ride-out the remainder of Obama's presidency, and then things immediately being to go back to normal again.
> 
> And, in any physical rumble between Israel and her Muslim neighbors, much of Europe will remain neutral, while most of the rest of it will back Israel, when push comes to shove.
> 
> Mostly because the Euros like Jews better than they like Muslims.
> 
> Just like us.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't mean Obama, I meant the rest of the world.  Israel is down to one supporter and of course it is the one that gives it BILLIONS of dollars every year that we really do need here.  Israel used to get more "aid" every year than every other country in the world rolled together, which is why they have been able to build the juggernaut they have.
Click to expand...


Don't you just love it when posters bring up the money for Israel.  As one poster, a retired naval officer once said, if Americans knew how much Israel helped America, Americans would deny her nothing.  Meanwhile, the money allocated to Israel must be mainly spent here in our defense industry, giving jobs to American workers.  Perhaps, for example, Amity could drag herself away from her computer and go to Grants Pass, Oregon and ask the people there working in one of the defense plants if they like having jobs.  Of course we know that the money given to others usually lands up in the pocket of some tyrant and his henchmen.


----------



## amity1844

> The more I worked with them and spent time in the camps and saw how the disinformation imagery and rhetoric abound.



uhh, no, you're busted.  I do NOT believe you ever set foot in a camp.  If so, give me one contact I can check, kunya of course.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Why not direct us to a really top expert in this field, Amity, to prove what you are saying?  Something big like this would be in some important medical journal, not some piece some anti-Israel guy came up with?  Surely you should be able to do this for us.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you get off your lazy butt and do your own research.
> 
> Ariella Oppenheim, Hadassah Medical Center, Hebrew University.  If you got out of high school you ought to be able to look that up.  Go to the library and they'll help you.
Click to expand...


Guess Amity can't direct us to an expert's paper in a leading medical journal.  This would be an important discovery and would certainly be discussed in a medical journal and at conferences for the people who are experts in the field.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> The more I worked with them and spent time in the camps and saw how the disinformation imagery and rhetoric abound.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uhh, no, you're busted.  I do NOT believe you ever set foot in a camp.  If so, give me one contact I can check, kunya of course.
Click to expand...


You're the one who is busted.  Aris was liaison between the Palestinians and the Lebanese and to this day she is still suffering from what happened to her there.  Meanwhile, it is the rest of us, including you, Amity, who really do not know what happened.  And, of course, given your mind set, you do not want to hear the truth from Aris.  There are a couple of posters that we are very lucky to have here -- Aris and Rocco.


----------



## amity1844

> Don't you just love it when posters bring up the money for Israel.  As one poster, a retired naval officer once said, if Americans knew how much Israel helped America, Americans would deny her nothing.  Meanwhile, the money allocated to Israel must be mainly spent here in our defense industry, giving jobs to American workers.  Perhaps, for example, Amity could drag herself away from her computer and go to Grants Pass, Oregon and ask the people there working in one of the defense plants if they like having jobs.  Of course we know that the money given to others usually lands up in the pocket of some tyrant and his henchmen.



Yes, it needs bringing up.  We are spending billions of dollars to equip a totalitarian regime that is one of the most oppressive in history.  And it is money we need here.  We can find those folks in Grants Pass better jobs beating swords into plowshares.  When we finally get this thing resolved there will be a huge economy to retool.


----------



## amity1844

I absolutely do not believe they know stuff from shinola the way they talk.  It does not even sound familiar.  Unless you can provide specifics, you're done.  Nothing could be worse.


----------



## amity1844

Sally said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not direct us to a really top expert in this field, Amity, to prove what you are saying?  Something big like this would be in some important medical journal, not some piece some anti-Israel guy came up with?  Surely you should be able to do this for us.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you get off your lazy butt and do your own research.
> 
> Ariella Oppenheim, Hadassah Medical Center, Hebrew University.  If you got out of high school you ought to be able to look that up.  Go to the library and they'll help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Guess Amity can't direct us to an expert's paper in a leading medical journal.  This would be an important discovery and would certainly be discussed in a medical journal and at conferences for the people who are experts in the field.
Click to expand...


Oh my God, I have never seen anyone more intellectually helpless.  It is going to be in the Journal of Hebrew Studies or whatever professional journal Hadassah Medical Center puts out.  Get it in gear and find it.


----------



## amity1844

I have a new contract so will have to beg off for awhile.  I'll post a little video or something every day, but will be back in a few, need to do some writing.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Don't you just love it when posters bring up the money for Israel.  As one poster, a retired naval officer once said, if Americans knew how much Israel helped America, Americans would deny her nothing.  Meanwhile, the money allocated to Israel must be mainly spent here in our defense industry, giving jobs to American workers.  Perhaps, for example, Amity could drag herself away from her computer and go to Grants Pass, Oregon and ask the people there working in one of the defense plants if they like having jobs.  Of course we know that the money given to others usually lands up in the pocket of some tyrant and his henchmen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it needs bringing up.  We are spending billions of dollars to equip a totalitarian regime that is one of the most oppressive in history.  And it is money we need here.  We can find those folks in Grants Pass better jobs beating swords into plowshares.  When we finally get this thing resolved there will be a huge economy to retool.
Click to expand...


Are you kidding???  The regimes of your friends are the totalitarian ones and are some of the most oppressive ones in history.  This is why you are a joke, Amity, because most of us are aware of what is going on in the rest of the world.  Meanwhile, monies are allocated in the budget for different things, and a certainly amount is allocated for aid to countries.  If Israel got nothing, the money previously allocated to her would go to different countries.  Amity is so laughable.  In a small town, the people are really going to get better paying jobs than the ones in the defense industry.  How about, Amity, you tell your new friends to start learning an occupation instead of them running around the Middle East murdering people?  One time there was a Jewish man from Los Angeles, Sidney Harmon, who set up a plant in Jordan.  He didn't do it for profit, but for altruistic purposes.  I think Amity, instead of spending day and night demonizing Israel, should instead start collecting funds from her like-minded friends so that she could set up a plant for her Palestinian buddies so they will have something to do besides their hoping to destroy Israel.


----------



## amity1844

As a matter of fact, there IS a plant being set up.  You must be psychic.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> I absolutely do not believe they know stuff from shinola the way they talk.  It does not even sound familiar.  Unless you can provide specifics, you're done.  Nothing could be worse.



Amity, don't you realize you were done when you started.  All you were doing, as another member from the Boiler Room, is repeat the same old, same old stuff readers have heard for ages.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you get off your lazy butt and do your own research.
> 
> Ariella Oppenheim, Hadassah Medical Center, Hebrew University.  If you got out of high school you ought to be able to look that up.  Go to the library and they'll help you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess Amity can't direct us to an expert's paper in a leading medical journal.  This would be an important discovery and would certainly be discussed in a medical journal and at conferences for the people who are experts in the field.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh my God, I have never seen anyone more intellectually helpless.  It is going to be in the Journal of Hebrew Studies or whatever professional journal Hadassah Medical Center puts out.  Get it in gear and find it.
Click to expand...


Doesn't it look like, folks, that Amity is unable to pull up this very important finding in a legitimate medical journal and also pull up news about the conference held attended by experts in this field from all over the world?.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> As a matter of fact, there IS a plant being set up.  You must be psychic.



Why don't you tell us what this new plant will manufacture and where it is located?


----------



## amity1844

> Doesn't it look like, folks, that Amity is unable to pull up this very important finding in a legitimate medical journal and also pull up news about the conference held attended by experts in this field from all over the world?.


I didn't know there was a conference. 
Look, I'll give you a few more clues.  There is more than one study involved, and more than one article.  They were all published between 2000 and 2002.  They are all in Hebrew which means I am going to have to have a friend look them up for me.  And it is not a priority.  It will probably take a few months.  But when I find out I'll get back to you.

And that is really all I know at this point.  I have a few exerpts.  If you are genuinely curious enough to do the search, let me know.  I kind of doubt your sincerity, though. 
But if you will lift the veil from your eyes long enough to watch that video you will see that it is a credible scientific study, and then if you have any integrity at all, which I also doubt, you will admit that.  You seem to have the intellectual integrity of the Stern Gang.


----------



## amity1844

Sally said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely do not believe they know stuff from shinola the way they talk.  It does not even sound familiar.  Unless you can provide specifics, you're done.  Nothing could be worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amity, don't you realize you were done when you started.  All you were doing, as another member from the Boiler Room, is repeat the same old, same old stuff readers have heard for ages.
Click to expand...


What is this boiler room?  
And look, I really do want specifics about Anis' experience. Please post them in full detail.  I'm all ears.  Then I'll tell you if you're full of crap or a dangerous war criminal, Anis.  Its gotta be one or the other and hope its the former.


----------



## amity1844

> Why don't you tell us what this new plant will manufacture and where it is located?


Look if you really want to do something to help (and I haven't had any sense that you really DO want to help...), there are several good nonprofits that do good work, not like some guy who goes into Jordan and "sets up a plant."  Genuinely good work.  I like ANERA.  And if you mean what you say about economic development as a means of easing tension, you will support them.  It is very much needed, believe me.  The average Palestinian living in a camp in Lebanon, for example, lives on $7 per day, in a country that has a cost of living not much lower than in the states.  Can you imagine trying to survive on $7 a day where you live?  Schools, healthcare, business loans, clothing, transportation, even good quality food are all in very short supply.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You read so much into an isolated word.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *trusteeship*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Key word. The territory was held in trust on behalf of the people. Not the Mexican people. Not the Canadian people. Not the European people.
> 
> It was held in trust for the Palestinian people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Series of League of Nations Publications VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nations upon which such *powers of guardianship are conferred exercise them "as Mandatories on behalf of the League"*. In other words, the administration of these territories is delegated to them. This involves an obligation on their part to render account of their administration to the League of Nations.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ LoN/1945.VI.A.1  30 April 1945
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In all "trusts" - there are "obligations."  As is often paraphrased from the FDR speech for the Jefferson Day Dinner in 1945:  "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility."
> 
> First, the Mandate was on behalf of the League of Nations, and NOT (repeat) NOT on behalf of the people of Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_; or any other individual state.
> 
> Second, the obligation of the Mandatory is to the League of Nations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Series of League of Nations Publications VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The acceptance by a nation of this mission carries with it certain obligations and responsibilities established by law. Like guardians in civil law, they must exercise their authority in the interests of their wards -- that is to say, of the peoples which are regarded as minors -- and must maintain an entirely disinterested attitude in their dealings with them. The territories with the administration of which they are entrusted must not be exploited by them for their own profit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no question in my mind - that at the end of the day - come the termination of the Mandate, that the inhabitants had reached a more advanced stage of development and their independence could, in principle, be recognized by the Covenant itself; and that there be the establishment of the Jewish national home in the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine and internationally --- all Jews willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> There are a few points to be made here.
> 
> 
> The Mandatory (the UK in this case), is subordinate to the Covenant (the League of Nations), just the dame as an appointed Trustee is subordinate to the will of the Court in civil law.  The Mandate itself is not written in stone, but pliable to the will of the Covenant.
> 
> 
> The obligation is to the Covenant, with the idea that the best interest of the people are looked after, yet not always what the indigenous population may want (parental oversight).
> 
> 
> You will notice that the Mandate speaks of "self-governing institutions" (plural).  Meaning that more than one institution may be established.
> 
> 
> And finally, "self-governance" was never established geographically (except for Trans Jordan), nor was there a specification on how to establish a Jewish National Home.  There was never an outline establish limiting the scope and nature of either how to affect a Jewish National Home or self-governing institutions.  (That would not come until the Resolution of 1947.)
> 
> Of course, through the process - no one can argue successfully that the Arab indigenous population did not have a right to a self-governing institution.  But the expanse, scope and nature of such was never defined until 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Why do you say all that. I don't see the relevance.

It is clear who the Palestinians were and that the mandate was supposed to bring them to independence.


----------



## amity1844

> Yeah, Amity vets all the sources, and when it is one she doesn't like, it is FAKE in her mind, never once thinking that many think her sources are FAKE and that Arab Propaganda is the best in the world.  They probably learned from those old Nazis who went to the Middle East after World War II and wrote propaganda for the Arabs.




The way I know it is a fake is that the title is "Pathetic Assholes Conspiring to Boycott Israel."  That's a dead giveaway right there.  It has been hijacked.  

But it was never a genuine site to begin with.  An easy way to find that out is to copy the site title (the real one) and enter it into your browser and see what links to it.  Why do I get the feeling that one of you low level Zionist apologists set this up?   Probably because it seems like a hack job. 

At any rate, we're going to get you all up to speed on how to do research.  If you're still oblivious after that, it'll be your own responsibility.


----------



## amity1844

> Amity, don't you realize you were done when you started.  All you were doing, as another member from the Boiler Room, is repeat the same old, same old stuff readers have heard for ages.



The intellectual atmosphere on this particular forum is so mindlessly rote Zionist with nothing particularly useful being said that I am a breath of fresh air by comparison. And I think for that reason if for no other it needs to continue in a limited way.  There are a few good and sincere souls who deserve to get some truth out of all this.


----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> Billo, you are a very insightful lady.


"Lady". Ha ha ha ha!


----------



## MHunterB

amity1844 said:


> It is obvious that they are NOT 'Jewish' under the definition employed either by the State of Israel or Jewish religious law.   Not only that, they don't seem to have the slightest desire to be Jewish, and in fact Arab and other Muslim people routinely accuse whoever they wish to demonize of being 'a Jew'......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They ARE Jews under the definition Israel uses, which is based on nothing but ancestry and self-identification.  Some Israeli statesman once said "A Jew is whoever says he is."  That, plus ancestry.
> WANT to be Jewish?  Most would not want to be practicing Jews, of course not, but it does expose the bankruptcy of the Law of Return.
Click to expand...


https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/Other_Law_Law_of_Return.html

Perhaps if you read the information at this link, you will understand it better.  The Israeli law in this instance is based on Jewish religious law.

Some nations - quite a few, in fact - will not allow people to immigrate *unless* they can show a (direct) 'ancestral' connection.   And of course there is one nation in the ME which absolutely will not allow anyone but the members of one specific religion to become citizens:  that is Saudi Arabia.

Each different First Nations tribe has its own laws about who is/isn't a member. The last I heard - which was about a year ago - from my FN friends, there was some pressure from the government to adopt a single standard for all the tribes.  But of course that'd violate individual tribal self-determination.  

It doesn't matter what you - or I - think of the Israeli immigration laws because we have no legal right to do anything regarding those laws.

 Lipush, yes - she's a citizen and has that right.  She hasn't been lecturing us Americans on what we 'should' do and who we should let in here........  I doubt it has occurred to her to do so!


----------



## Roudy

amity1844 said:


> Amity, don't you realize you were done when you started.  All you were doing, as another member from the Boiler Room, is repeat the same old, same old stuff readers have heard for ages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intellectual atmosphere on this particular forum is so mindlessly rote Zionist with nothing particularly useful being said that I am a breath of fresh air by comparison. And I think for that reason if for no other it needs to continue in a limited way.  There are a few good and sincere souls who deserve to get some truth out of all this.
Click to expand...

Try again, so far all that you have posted are regurgitated lies and false propaganda that has been heard and debunked a thousand times.  Your fresh air is worse than what you breath in a public restroom.  

I think its time you reappeared as someone else.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You read so much into an isolated word.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Key word. The territory was held in trust on behalf of the people. Not the Mexican people. Not the Canadian people. Not the European people.
> 
> It was held in trust for the Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In all "trusts" - there are "obligations."  As is often paraphrased from the FDR speech for the Jefferson Day Dinner in 1945:  "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility."
> 
> First, the Mandate was on behalf of the League of Nations, and NOT (repeat) NOT on behalf of the people of Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_; or any other individual state.
> 
> Second, the obligation of the Mandatory is to the League of Nations:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Series of League of Nations Publications VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The acceptance by a nation of this mission carries with it certain obligations and responsibilities established by law. Like guardians in civil law, they must exercise their authority in the interests of their wards -- that is to say, of the peoples which are regarded as minors -- and must maintain an entirely disinterested attitude in their dealings with them. The territories with the administration of which they are entrusted must not be exploited by them for their own profit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no question in my mind - that at the end of the day - come the termination of the Mandate, that the inhabitants had reached a more advanced stage of development and their independence could, in principle, be recognized by the Covenant itself; and that there be the establishment of the Jewish national home in the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine and internationally --- all Jews willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> There are a few points to be made here.
> 
> 
> The Mandatory (the UK in this case), is subordinate to the Covenant (the League of Nations), just the dame as an appointed Trustee is subordinate to the will of the Court in civil law.  The Mandate itself is not written in stone, but pliable to the will of the Covenant.
> 
> 
> The obligation is to the Covenant, with the idea that the best interest of the people are looked after, yet not always what the indigenous population may want (parental oversight).
> 
> 
> You will notice that the Mandate speaks of "self-governing institutions" (plural).  Meaning that more than one institution may be established.
> 
> 
> And finally, "self-governance" was never established geographically (except for Trans Jordan), nor was there a specification on how to establish a Jewish National Home.  There was never an outline establish limiting the scope and nature of either how to affect a Jewish National Home or self-governing institutions.  (That would not come until the Resolution of 1947.)
> 
> Of course, through the process - no one can argue successfully that the Arab indigenous population did not have a right to a self-governing institution.  But the expanse, scope and nature of such was never defined until 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you say all that. I don't see the relevance.
> 
> It is clear who the Palestinians were and that the mandate was supposed to bring them to independence.
Click to expand...


'Was supposed to bring them them to independence'

This is true. The problem is, the Palestinians rejected independence.


----------



## Lipush

Roudy said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo, you are a very insightful lady.
> 
> 
> 
> "Lady". Ha ha ha ha!
Click to expand...


Tehehehehe


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know more about the IDF and its sometimes cruelty than 1000 stories of breaking the silence. I lived among IDF soldiers from the day I was born and tasted the cruelty of the system.
> 
> 
> 
> If the system is cruel, it's not a "sometimes" problem, it's a "systemic" one.
> 
> And systemic problems require immediate attention, something you're not willing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Breaking the silence" tells me nothing new. So you can take that site and shove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not what it tells you, it's what it tells me, about you.
> 
> You're reactions to some of their comments, say a lot about you as a person.
> 
> Especially the ones where you have "no" reaction, or refuse to even comment on what they said, like their use of _*"johnnies".*_
Click to expand...


The system tries to fix itself all the time! Fact that you don't see it is perhaps because you're not interested in seeing it, or you simply prefer to stay behind a curtain of ignorance. I don't know which one it is.

And by the way, Billo. You don't know anything about me, _as a person_. So don't try and psych me out. That pisses me off. All you know about me is what I let you see on this messageboard. I know I'm way far from perfect, but don't try and pretend like you can know or read me.

That's beyond rude.!


----------



## Lipush

Billo_Really said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo, you are a very insightful lady.
> 
> 
> 
> Not if you ask my ex-girlfriend.
Click to expand...


Now THAT'S funny!


----------



## RoccoR

toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.



toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You read so much into an isolated word.
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In all "trusts" - there are "obligations."  As is often paraphrased from the FDR speech for the Jefferson Day Dinner in 1945:  "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility."
> 
> First, the Mandate was on behalf of the League of Nations, and NOT (repeat) NOT on behalf of the people of Palestine _(as defined in the Palestine Order in Council - meaning: territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.)_; or any other individual state.
> 
> Second, the obligation of the Mandatory is to the League of Nations:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no question in my mind - that at the end of the day - come the termination of the Mandate, that the inhabitants had reached a more advanced stage of development and their independence could, in principle, be recognized by the Covenant itself; and that there be the establishment of the Jewish national home in the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine and internationally --- all Jews willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> There are a few points to be made here.
> 
> 
> The Mandatory (the UK in this case), is subordinate to the Covenant (the League of Nations), just the dame as an appointed Trustee is subordinate to the will of the Court in civil law.  The Mandate itself is not written in stone, but pliable to the will of the Covenant.
> 
> 
> The obligation is to the Covenant, with the idea that the best interest of the people are looked after, yet not always what the indigenous population may want (parental oversight).
> 
> 
> You will notice that the Mandate speaks of "self-governing institutions" (plural).  Meaning that more than one institution may be established.
> 
> 
> And finally, "self-governance" was never established geographically (except for Trans Jordan), nor was there a specification on how to establish a Jewish National Home.  There was never an outline establish limiting the scope and nature of either how to affect a Jewish National Home or self-governing institutions.  (That would not come until the Resolution of 1947.)
> 
> Of course, through the process - no one can argue successfully that the Arab indigenous population did not have a right to a self-governing institution.  But the expanse, scope and nature of such was never defined until 1947.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say all that. I don't see the relevance.
> 
> It is clear who the Palestinians were and that the mandate was supposed to bring them to independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'Was supposed to bring them them to independence'
> 
> This is true. The problem is, the Palestinians rejected independence.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.

Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say all that. I don't see the relevance.
> 
> It is clear who the Palestinians were and that the mandate was supposed to bring them to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Was supposed to bring them them to independence'
> 
> This is true. The problem is, the Palestinians rejected independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.

Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?

Give me some names.


----------



## MJB12741

HUH???  What Palestinian country are you referring to?






P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Was supposed to bring them them to independence'
> 
> This is true. The problem is, the Palestinians rejected independence.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Was supposed to bring them them to independence'
> 
> This is true. The problem is, the Palestinians rejected independence.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha. There has never been a country called Palestine. The land belonged to the Ottoman Empire for 700 years and then then under the control of the British after that.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I guess this is a good question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Was supposed to bring them them to independence'
> 
> This is true. The problem is, the Palestinians rejected independence.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*


After all, what Palestinian in their right mind would pass-up the opportunity to go to war for 40 years first, then get less territory?

You're right --- Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Was supposed to bring them them to independence'
> 
> This is true. The problem is, the Palestinians rejected independence.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...


What country are you talking about?


----------



## Lipush

amity1844 said:


> I have a new contract so will have to beg off for awhile.  I'll post a little video or something every day, but will be back in a few, need to do some writing.



Oh, no, more trolling


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I guess this is a good question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> After all, what Palestinian in their right mind would pass-up the opportunity to go to war for 40 years first, then get less territory?
> 
> You're right --- Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over?


----------



## MHunterB

"And by the way, Billo. You don't know anything about me, as a person. So don't try and psych me out. That pisses me off. All you know about me is what I let you see on this messageboard. I know I'm way far from perfect, but don't try and pretend like you can know or read me.

That's beyond rude.! "

You're right, Lipush:  it's Billo-bully's charming l'il way of trying to dominate you.  And just like when a Chihuahua tries to dry-hump someone's leg - even though it's gross, we all laugh at the l'il beast's antics : ))


----------



## MHunterB

"How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over? "

You're joking, right?   Decades of past experience as an example.....there's a trend involved.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, _et al,_

It is a simple matter of subtraction.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this is a good question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> After all, what Palestinian in their right mind would pass-up the opportunity to go to war for 40 years first, then get less territory?
> 
> You're right --- Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:



Can't you see a different?

Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> It is a simple matter of subtraction.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this is a good question.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> After all, what Palestinian in their right mind would pass-up the opportunity to go to war for 40 years first, then get less territory?
> 
> You're right --- Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you see a different?
> 
> Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Tinmore considers all of the land , including Israel, to be Palestinian land.


----------



## Roudy

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Timbuktu?


----------



## Roudy

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> It is a simple matter of subtraction.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this is a good question.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> After all, what Palestinian in their right mind would pass-up the opportunity to go to war for 40 years first, then get less territory?
> 
> You're right --- Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you see a different?
> 
> Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

"Palestinians never miss and opportunity to miss an opportunity"


----------



## aris2chat

amity1844 said:


> The more I worked with them and spent time in the camps and saw how the disinformation imagery and rhetoric abound.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uhh, no, you're busted.  I do NOT believe you ever set foot in a camp.  If so, give me one contact I can check, kunya of course.
Click to expand...


Most of those who's name you would recognize are dead, sadly that is life in the middle east.
President's, MPs, military officers, ambassadors, UN Secretary-general, PLO officials, royalty, party member, business men, entertainers, etc. would require giving my name.  I'm not comfortable with people knowing my identity or alias'.  Even for practical safety it is better to use a screen name rather than your real name.  I don't even use my name on social network sites.

You can accept or not what I tell you about myself.  I don't care.  I try to share my experience and perspective, but I still prefer to keep my privacy.

Satisfying your need for contacts or verification is no worth the risk.  I'm sure you can use your imagination for what you can do with your request.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Doesn't it look like, folks, that Amity is unable to pull up this very important finding in a legitimate medical journal and also pull up news about the conference held attended by experts in this field from all over the world?.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know there was a conference.
> Look, I'll give you a few more clues.  There is more than one study involved, and more than one article.  They were all published between 2000 and 2002.  They are all in Hebrew which means I am going to have to have a friend look them up for me.  And it is not a priority.  It will probably take a few months.  But when I find out I'll get back to you.
> 
> And that is really all I know at this point.  I have a few exerpts.  If you are genuinely curious enough to do the search, let me know.  I kind of doubt your sincerity, though.
> But if you will lift the veil from your eyes long enough to watch that video you will see that it is a credible scientific study, and then if you have any integrity at all, which I also doubt, you will admit that.  You seem to have the intellectual integrity of the Stern Gang.
Click to expand...


Perhaps it is Amity who should lift the veil from her eyes to see what is happening in the rest of the Middle East where tons of innocent people have been murdered because of their religious beliefs.  I am concerned about Amity's intellectual integrity.  It seems that she thinks that Israel is so bad, bad, bad while her new friends in the rest of the Middle East are angels and wouldn't harm a fly.  Meanwhile, if this study were on the up and up, it would have been discussed in medical or scientific journals.  After all this would be an important finding, and not only would it be in journals, there would also be a conference of experts in the field meeting to discuss the findings of this study.  Meanwhat, what fun to be a Dhimwit!!!


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely do not believe they know stuff from shinola the way they talk.  It does not even sound familiar.  Unless you can provide specifics, you're done.  Nothing could be worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amity, don't you realize you were done when you started.  All you were doing, as another member from the Boiler Room, is repeat the same old, same old stuff readers have heard for ages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is this boiler room?
> And look, I really do want specifics about Anis' experience. Please post them in full detail.  I'm all ears.  Then I'll tell you if you're full of crap or a dangerous war criminal, Anis.  Its gotta be one or the other and hope its the former.
Click to expand...


It's really none of your business what Aris did over there.  Just be thankful that you didn't go through the same as she did.  The one who is full of crap here is you, Amity, and maybe instead of you suggesting Aris might be a war criminal, perhaps some day you will be picked up for hiding some radical Islamists in your own apartment...  As for the Boiler Room, new posters are sent in to take the place of the previous one, and they all are against Israel.  For all we know, some of them might actually be writing for these radical Muslim sites.  Wonder who will be the next one up here.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Why don't you tell us what this new plant will manufacture and where it is located?
> 
> 
> 
> Look if you really want to do something to help (and I haven't had any sense that you really DO want to help...), there are several good nonprofits that do good work, not like some guy who goes into Jordan and "sets up a plant."  Genuinely good work.  I like ANERA.  And if you mean what you say about economic development as a means of easing tension, you will support them.  It is very much needed, believe me.  The average Palestinian living in a camp in Lebanon, for example, lives on $7 per day, in a country that has a cost of living not much lower than in the states.  Can you imagine trying to survive on $7 a day where you live?  Schools, healthcare, business loans, clothing, transportation, even good quality food are all in very short supply.
Click to expand...


I hope that Amity doesn't mind if I prefer my money to help those Syrian children which have been made homeless by her friends.  Does anyone think that Amity would ever consider helping some of those skin and bones Somali people who are dropping dead of starvation in their roads.  Has anyone ever seen a Palestinian who looks like one of these starving Somalis?  Can you imagine what $7 a day would do for a starving Somali?  I would suggest that Amity take her plea to the oil rich countries in the Middle East so that they can help their fellow Arabs.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Yeah, Amity vets all the sources, and when it is one she doesn't like, it is FAKE in her mind, never once thinking that many think her sources are FAKE and that Arab Propaganda is the best in the world.  They probably learned from those old Nazis who went to the Middle East after World War II and wrote propaganda for the Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way I know it is a fake is that the title is "Pathetic Assholes Conspiring to Boycott Israel."  That's a dead giveaway right there.  It has been hijacked.
> 
> But it was never a genuine site to begin with.  An easy way to find that out is to copy the site title (the real one) and enter it into your browser and see what links to it.  Why do I get the feeling that one of you low level Zionist apologists set this up?   Probably because it seems like a hack job.
> 
> At any rate, we're going to get you all up to speed on how to do research.  If you're still oblivious after that, it'll be your own responsibility.
Click to expand...


Oh, the good Dhimmi has speakth.  Amity must think that all the posters and all the readers are actually falling for her nonsense.  My that Arab propaganda is the best in the world.  Perhaps Amity should get up to speed and stop using this Arab propaganda.  After all, one can Google "Arab Propaganda" and find out all about it.


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> Amity, don't you realize you were done when you started.  All you were doing, as another member from the Boiler Room, is repeat the same old, same old stuff readers have heard for ages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intellectual atmosphere on this particular forum is so mindlessly rote Zionist with nothing particularly useful being said that I am a breath of fresh air by comparison. And I think for that reason if for no other it needs to continue in a limited way.  There are a few good and sincere souls who deserve to get some truth out of all this.
Click to expand...


You're a breath of fresh air???  You are just the next poster up from the Boiler Room who shows up to repeat the same mindless rote Pro Pali priopaganda that the viewers have heard for ages.  One of the posters was right when she asked if Amity ever sleeps.  My, oh my, these gals from the Boiler Room get their batteries charged to keep them going day and night.


----------



## aris2chat

Lipush said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a new contract so will have to beg off for awhile.  I'll post a little video or something every day, but will be back in a few, need to do some writing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no, more trolling
Click to expand...


too bad, so sad.................. 






A breath of fresh air and sunlight turns trolls to stone


----------



## MJB12741

It's called Palestinian Mentality!






RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I guess this is a good question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> toastman, P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, they rejected the participation in the Partition Plan; but not independence.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The odd thing is, that if they had accepted participation in the Partition Plan, they would have been better-off than attempting to take by force what they could not negotiate.
> 
> Forty years later, when they final do acknowledge the legitimacy of Resolution 181(II), they found themselves will less than what they started with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were "offered" to give 55% of their country to foreign settlers.
> 
> Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> After all, what Palestinian in their right mind would pass-up the opportunity to go to war for 40 years first, then get less territory?
> 
> You're right --- Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> It is a simple matter of subtraction.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this is a good question.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> After all, what Palestinian in their right mind would pass-up the opportunity to go to war for 40 years first, then get less territory?
> 
> You're right --- Who in the world would have accepted such an offer?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you see a different?
> 
> Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.

Israel has never accepted the offer.


----------



## MJB12741

Yep,, Just like Palestinians they take a lickin' & keep on tickin'.  Thank goodness they don't even know the first law of the hole.  When you're already one --- Stop digging.  Heh Heh!





Sally said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amity, don't you realize you were done when you started.  All you were doing, as another member from the Boiler Room, is repeat the same old, same old stuff readers have heard for ages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intellectual atmosphere on this particular forum is so mindlessly rote Zionist with nothing particularly useful being said that I am a breath of fresh air by comparison. And I think for that reason if for no other it needs to continue in a limited way.  There are a few good and sincere souls who deserve to get some truth out of all this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a breath of fresh air???  You are just the next poster up from the Boiler Room who shows up to repeat the same mindless rote Pro Pali priopaganda that the viewers have heard for ages.  One of the posters was right when she asked if Amity ever sleeps.  My, oh my, these gals from the Boiler Room get their batteries charged to keep them going day and night.
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> It is a simple matter of subtraction.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you see a different?
> 
> Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.
> 
> Israel has never accepted the offer.
Click to expand...


West bank was given toIsrael by jordan.  There was an expectation of a land swap so settlement and land behind the wall would remain as part of Israel, and land would be added to gaza or to northern WB of equal size, or close to.

Ranting about building more units on land that west of the wall just for the sake of being troublesome is not worth the effort.  I don't think settlements should be built east of the wall, but if there is a need for security, roads, infrastructure etc. to be built, Israel should do so in areas that are still under it's jurisdiction. 

If Israel develops the land that will be turned over to the PA, it simply adds to the value.
PA should be building jobs and developing their own towns not complaining about Israel.

You want to talk to Israel?  OK, but stop the whining and actually put forward some compromise, give Israel something and Israel will in return offer something back till you find some middle ground that both can live with.  Don't put a list of demands on the table, deal with each issue point by point.  Expect that you will not get everything nor will the other party, but you find what is best for both sides.


----------



## Billo_Really

MHunterB said:


> "And by the way, Billo. You don't know anything about me, as a person. So don't try and psych me out. That pisses me off. All you know about me is what I let you see on this messageboard. I know I'm way far from perfect, but don't try and pretend like you can know or read me.
> 
> That's beyond rude.! "
> 
> You're right, Lipush:  it's Billo-bully's charming l'il way of trying to dominate you.  And just like when a Chihuahua tries to dry-hump someone's leg - even though it's gross, we all laugh at the l'il beast's antics : ))


It would be nice if you could tell me what post you were responding to?


----------



## Billo_Really

Lipush said:


> The system tries to fix itself all the time! Fact that you don't see it is perhaps because you're not interested in seeing it, or you simply prefer to stay behind a curtain of ignorance. I don't know which one it is.


Why don't you give me 3 examples of that system fixing itself and I will take a LOOK at it.  



Lipush said:


> And by the way, Billo. You don't know anything about me, _as a person_. So don't try and psych me out. That pisses me off. All you know about me is what I let you see on this messageboard. I know I'm way far from perfect, but don't try and pretend like you can know or read me.
> 
> That's beyond rude.!


I know what I see and what I don't see.

And if you think a certain perception of mine is wrong, then correct me.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> It is a simple matter of subtraction.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know how much land the Palestinians will have when the war is over?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you see a different?
> 
> Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.
> 
> Israel has never accepted the offer.
Click to expand...


They offered Israel land that already belonged to Israel ?  

Please show me this offer Tinmore


----------



## Billo_Really

MHunterB said:


> We all know that if Billo were female , 'lady' is not a word which would ever be applicable......


Hey, I can feel your pain, exfoliate and watch _Pride and Prejudice_!

Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> It is a simple matter of subtraction.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you see a different?
> 
> Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.
> 
> Israel has never accepted the offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They offered Israel land that *already belonged to Israel ?*
> 
> Please show me this offer Tinmore
Click to expand...


Can you prove that point?


----------



## MJB12741

Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.





aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> It is a simple matter of subtraction.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Take the land allotted in Resolution 181(II) (See Map Attachment) and compare it to the State of Palestine of today:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you see a different?
> 
> Like you say, the "war" is not over yet, but as long as the Palestinian prolong it in their attempt to acquire more land by force (Jihad and Armed Struggle), the more control they lose.  It has been going in that direction for six decades.  How much more control do the Palestinians want to lose?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.
> 
> Israel has never accepted the offer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> West bank was given toIsrael by jordan.  There was an expectation of a land swap so settlement and land behind the wall would remain as part of Israel, and land would be added to gaza or to northern WB of equal size, or close to.
> 
> Ranting about building more units on land that west of the wall just for the sake of being troublesome is not worth the effort.  I don't think settlements should be built east of the wall, but if there is a need for security, roads, infrastructure etc. to be built, Israel should do so in areas that are still under it's jurisdiction.
> 
> If Israel develops the land that will be turned over to the PA, it simply adds to the value.
> PA should be building jobs and developing their own towns not complaining about Israel.
> 
> You want to talk to Israel?  OK, but stop the whining and actually put forward some compromise, give Israel something and Israel will in return offer something back till you find some middle ground that both can live with.  Don't put a list of demands on the table, deal with each issue point by point.  Expect that you will not get everything nor will the other party, but you find what is best for both sides.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.
> 
> Israel has never accepted the offer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West bank was given toIsrael by jordan.  There was an expectation of a land swap so settlement and land behind the wall would remain as part of Israel, and land would be added to gaza or to northern WB of equal size, or close to.
> 
> Ranting about building more units on land that west of the wall just for the sake of being troublesome is not worth the effort.  I don't think settlements should be built east of the wall, but if there is a need for security, roads, infrastructure etc. to be built, Israel should do so in areas that are still under it's jurisdiction.
> 
> If Israel develops the land that will be turned over to the PA, it simply adds to the value.
> PA should be building jobs and developing their own towns not complaining about Israel.
> 
> You want to talk to Israel?  OK, but stop the whining and actually put forward some compromise, give Israel something and Israel will in return offer something back till you find some middle ground that both can live with.  Don't put a list of demands on the table, deal with each issue point by point.  Expect that you will not get everything nor will the other party, but you find what is best for both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




> *tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.*



They did? Then why is it called *occupied Palestinian territory?*


----------



## MJB12741

By whom is it called "occupied Palestinian territory" & what difference does it matter what anyone calls it?  Just tell us why the West Bank is no longer called Jordan, even by Jordanians.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> West bank was given toIsrael by jordan.  There was an expectation of a land swap so settlement and land behind the wall would remain as part of Israel, and land would be added to gaza or to northern WB of equal size, or close to.
> 
> Ranting about building more units on land that west of the wall just for the sake of being troublesome is not worth the effort.  I don't think settlements should be built east of the wall, but if there is a need for security, roads, infrastructure etc. to be built, Israel should do so in areas that are still under it's jurisdiction.
> 
> If Israel develops the land that will be turned over to the PA, it simply adds to the value.
> PA should be building jobs and developing their own towns not complaining about Israel.
> 
> You want to talk to Israel?  OK, but stop the whining and actually put forward some compromise, give Israel something and Israel will in return offer something back till you find some middle ground that both can live with.  Don't put a list of demands on the table, deal with each issue point by point.  Expect that you will not get everything nor will the other party, but you find what is best for both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did? Then why is it called *occupied Palestinian territory?*
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

MJB12741 said:


> Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.
> 
> Israel has never accepted the offer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West bank was given toIsrael by jordan.  There was an expectation of a land swap so settlement and land behind the wall would remain as part of Israel, and land would be added to gaza or to northern WB of equal size, or close to.
> 
> Ranting about building more units on land that west of the wall just for the sake of being troublesome is not worth the effort.  I don't think settlements should be built east of the wall, but if there is a need for security, roads, infrastructure etc. to be built, Israel should do so in areas that are still under it's jurisdiction.
> 
> If Israel develops the land that will be turned over to the PA, it simply adds to the value.
> PA should be building jobs and developing their own towns not complaining about Israel.
> 
> You want to talk to Israel?  OK, but stop the whining and actually put forward some compromise, give Israel something and Israel will in return offer something back till you find some middle ground that both can live with.  Don't put a list of demands on the table, deal with each issue point by point.  Expect that you will not get everything nor will the other party, but you find what is best for both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


sitting waiting and not advancing housing or industry is pointless.  Land should be use so top soil is protected even in a fallow field you till the land a feed the soil a plowed vegetation decays.  Grass, hay, hemp, herbs can be allowed to grow as they feed the soil.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> So far, the Palestinians (some Palestinians) have offered Israel the land inside the green line in a peace deal.


That's Godalmighty White of 'em, considering that Israel holds that, plus much more, due to their skill at arms, and the incompetency of the Arabs in that same regard.

And, "_some Palestinian_s" is another key phrase. Why should Israel consider yet another peace deal, until all Palestinians agree upon a solution acceptable to the Israelis? After all, "some" is merely the casus belli for the *NEXT* round of fighting, when Faction A or B or C decides that nobody asked them, and that the peace deal does not work in their best interests - or Allah's (_in their tiny little brains_)? Lord knows that the Palestinians (_and their supporters_) have pulled _that_ kind of shit often enough in the past.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn

MJB12741 said:


> Let us consider the facts.  Fair enough?
> 
> http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/01/09/palestinians-invented-people/



Your invented people.

There is not even a word Palestinain. 

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...ine+palestinains#nfpr=1&q=define+palestinains


----------



## Lipush

Ok, lookey who's back....


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Lipush said:


> Ok, lookey who's back....



One leaves, the other returns.  It's shift work Jim, but not as we know it.


----------



## Lipush

lol


----------



## Kondor3

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, lookey who's back....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One leaves, the other returns.  It's shift work Jim, but not as we know it.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

WELCOME BACK SHERRI.  My prayer has been answered.  Sure missed you for the fun & laughs you give us.  





SherriMunnerlyn said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let us consider the facts.  Fair enough?
> 
> http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/01/09/palestinians-invented-people/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your invented people.
> 
> There is not even a word Palestinain.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...ine+palestinains#nfpr=1&q=define+palestinains
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Funny!  Funny!  Funny!  :d





sweet_caroline said:


> lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok, lookey who's back....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one leaves, the other returns.  It's shift work jim, but not as we know it.
Click to expand...


----------



## amity1844

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Jordan's to give!
Click to expand...


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Jordan's to give!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An important question, though -- why weren't these so-called Palestinian Arabs not clamoring for their own state when the Egyptians and Jordanians were administering the area?  Could it be that these so-called Palestinians didn't mind being administered by these two countries because these were Muslim countries?
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

_et al,_

Yeah, it is a fair question.



MJB12741 said:


> By whom is it called "occupied Palestinian territory" & what difference does it matter what anyone calls it?  Just tell us why the West Bank is no longer called Jordan, even by Jordanians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They did? Then why is it called *occupied Palestinian territory?*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

At the cessation of hostilities by Armistice of the Arab-Israeli War (1948/'49), the West Bank became Jordanian Occupied Territory.  In April 1950, HM King Abdullah convened a new Parliament in which the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank were given equally represented.  By unanimously vote, in was was called the "Unification of the Two Banks," The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan annexed the West Bank.

This was done with the consent of the Arab Palestinian (self-determination). 



			
				The Conflict of 1970 said:
			
		

> The partnership with the Palestinians desired by King Hussein fell apart in September, 1970. The pervasive and chaotic presence of *armed Palestinian fedayeen groups* who expected immunity from Jordan&#8217;s laws was leading to a state of virtual anarchy throughout the Kingdom. Moderate Palestinian leaders were unable to reign in extremist elements, *who ambushed the king&#8217;s motorcade twice and perpetrated a series of spectacular hijackings*. Forced to respond decisively in order to preserve his country from anarchy, King Hussein ordered the army into action.
> 
> The situation prompted different reactions throughout the Arab world. While most leaders privately expressed sympathy with the position of King Hussein, many took a public stance in favor of the fedayeen in order to embellish their credentials as &#8220;Arab nationalists.&#8221; The conflict reached a crisis point in September when some 200 Syrian tanks, camouflaged rather unconvincingly as Palestinian Liberation Army tanks, crossed into Jordan. The Syrians were bereft of air cover, however, and Jordanian aircraft forced a Syrian retreat within three days. *In a brief yet intense campaign ending in July 1971, the Jordanian army put an end to the chaotic actions of these Palestinians guerrillas in Amman.*
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ History Site for the Hashemite Kingdom



In 1988, HM terminated Parliament, and ended Jordanian Rule over the West Bank and the representation in the legislature by Palestinians. HM King Hussein "announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank."  THUS, ending the protection and citizenship Jordan extended over the Palestinians and the West Bank.  A few months later, the PLO declared independence (self-determination).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## aris2chat

amity1844 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the likes of Amity & Tinmore will tell us WHY Jordan gave Israel the West Bank.  Once they know the answer they may be able to see things outside the box of their Palestinian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Jordan's to give!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan conquered it, occupied it, Jordan annexed it, tried to give the palestinians citzenship, offered Arafat the position as PM of the greater jordan, Palestinians attack Jordan (black september)
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Yes.  Jordan had had it with protecting & providing for their Palestinians.  How pleased Jordan was to relinquish the West Bank to dump the Palestinians on Israel.





RoccoR said:


> _et al,_
> 
> Yeah, it is a fair question.
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> By whom is it called "occupied Palestinian territory" & what difference does it matter what anyone calls it?  Just tell us why the West Bank is no longer called Jordan, even by Jordanians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did? Then why is it called *occupied Palestinian territory?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At the cessation of hostilities by Armistice of the Arab-Israeli War (1948/'49), the West Bank became Jordanian Occupied Territory.  In April 1950, HM King Abdullah convened a new Parliament in which the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank were given equally represented.  By unanimously vote, in was was called the "Unification of the Two Banks," The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan annexed the West Bank.
> 
> This was done with the consent of the Arab Palestinian (self-determination).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Conflict of 1970 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The partnership with the Palestinians desired by King Hussein fell apart in September, 1970. The pervasive and chaotic presence of *armed Palestinian fedayeen groups* who expected immunity from Jordans laws was leading to a state of virtual anarchy throughout the Kingdom. Moderate Palestinian leaders were unable to reign in extremist elements, *who ambushed the kings motorcade twice and perpetrated a series of spectacular hijackings*. Forced to respond decisively in order to preserve his country from anarchy, King Hussein ordered the army into action.
> 
> The situation prompted different reactions throughout the Arab world. While most leaders privately expressed sympathy with the position of King Hussein, many took a public stance in favor of the fedayeen in order to embellish their credentials as Arab nationalists. The conflict reached a crisis point in September when some 200 Syrian tanks, camouflaged rather unconvincingly as Palestinian Liberation Army tanks, crossed into Jordan. The Syrians were bereft of air cover, however, and Jordanian aircraft forced a Syrian retreat within three days. *In a brief yet intense campaign ending in July 1971, the Jordanian army put an end to the chaotic actions of these Palestinians guerrillas in Amman.*
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ History Site for the Hashemite Kingdom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In 1988, HM terminated Parliament, and ended Jordanian Rule over the West Bank and the representation in the legislature by Palestinians. HM King Hussein "announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank."  THUS, ending the protection and citizenship Jordan extended over the Palestinians and the West Bank.  A few months later, the PLO declared independence (self-determination).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

aris2chat said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Jordan's to give!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Jordan conquered it,* occupied it, Jordan annexed it, tried to give the palestinians citzenship, offered Arafat the position as PM of the greater jordan, Palestinians attack Jordan (black september)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was that war between Palestine and Jordan?
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Jordan conquered it,* occupied it, Jordan annexed it, tried to give the palestinians citzenship, offered Arafat the position as PM of the greater jordan, Palestinians attack Jordan (black september)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When was that war between Palestine and Jordan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it was the latest Trustee of the Insane Asylum called Old Palestine, acting in an agency relationship in connection with their wholly incompetent charges.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## MJB12741

Black September - September 1970.  Around 15 to 20 thousand Palestinians massacred by Jordan.  But hey, it resulted in the one & only lasting peace ever established from Palestinian terrorists.



QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9225925]





aris2chat said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Jordan conquered it,* occupied it, Jordan annexed it, tried to give the palestinians citzenship, offered Arafat the position as PM of the greater jordan, Palestinians attack Jordan (black september)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When was that war between Palestine and Jordan?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Black September - September 1970.  Around 15 to 20 thousand Palestinians massacred by Jordan.  But hey, it resulted in the one & only lasting peace ever established from Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9225925]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Jordan conquered it,* occupied it, Jordan annexed it, tried to give the palestinians citzenship, offered Arafat the position as PM of the greater jordan, Palestinians attack Jordan (black september)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When was that war between Palestine and Jordan?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Oh, so that is how Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948.

Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## MJB12741

Now THAT'S funny!  "Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948."  Keep 'em comin' Tinmore.  Heh Heh!






P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Black September - September 1970.  Around 15 to 20 thousand Palestinians massacred by Jordan.  But hey, it resulted in the one & only lasting peace ever established from Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9225925]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was that war between Palestine and Jordan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, so that is how Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948.
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Now THAT'S funny!  "Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948."  Keep 'em comin' Tinmore.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Black September - September 1970.  Around 15 to 20 thousand Palestinians massacred by Jordan.  But hey, it resulted in the one & only lasting peace ever established from Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9225925]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so that is how Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948.
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


It was Jordanian occupied Palestine until 1967 then it became Israeli occupied Palestine.

What part of that confuses you?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT'S funny!  "Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948."  Keep 'em comin' Tinmore.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so that is how Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948.
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was Jordanian occupied Palestine until 1967 then it became Israeli occupied Palestine.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...


In 1967, it was Palestinian Territories, not Palestine.
What part of that confuses you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT'S funny!  "Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948."  Keep 'em comin' Tinmore.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was Jordanian occupied Palestine until 1967 then it became Israeli occupied Palestine.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In 1967, it was Palestinian Territories, not Palestine.
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...


Indeed, it was not Palestine. It was only a part of Palestine.

I stand corrected.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was Jordanian occupied Palestine until 1967 then it became Israeli occupied Palestine.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1967, it was Palestinian Territories, not Palestine.
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it was not Palestine. It was only a part of Palestine.
> 
> I stand corrected.
Click to expand...


I'm sure it was reffered to as Palestine, but the correct term for that time period is Palestinian Territories


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1967, it was Palestinian Territories, not Palestine.
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it was not Palestine. It was only a part of Palestine.
> 
> I stand corrected.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure it was reffered to as Palestine, but the correct term for that time period is Palestinian Territories
Click to expand...


When was the name officially changed?

Got a link?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT'S funny!  "Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948."  Keep 'em comin' Tinmore.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so that is how Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948.
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was Jordanian occupied Palestine until 1967 then it became Israeli occupied Palestine.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
Click to expand...

What?  Run that by me again?  Jordan (Arab Palestine) occupied another Palestine?  Would that be the Jewish Palestine aka ISRAEL that Arabs refused to accept and attacked by any chance?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT'S funny!  "Jordan occupied Palestine in 1948."  Keep 'em comin' Tinmore.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was Jordanian occupied Palestine until 1967 then it became Israeli occupied Palestine.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What?  Run that by me again?  Jordan (Arab Palestine) occupied another Palestine?  Would that be the Jewish Palestine aka ISRAEL that Arabs refused to accept and attacked by any chance?
Click to expand...


When did Jordan become Palestine?

When was Palestine exclusively Jewish?

Links?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it was not Palestine. It was only a part of Palestine.
> 
> I stand corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure it was reffered to as Palestine, but the correct term for that time period is Palestinian Territories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the name officially changed?
> 
> Got a link?
Click to expand...


Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure it was reffered to as Palestine, but the correct term for that time period is Palestinian Territories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When was the name officially changed?
> 
> Got a link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.

Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was the name officially changed?
> 
> Got a link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.
> 
> Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.
Click to expand...


Palestinian TERRITORIES . Not Palestinian country.

It was not a country before 1988.

Your constant denial of this simple fact just makes you out to look like a 9 year old.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was the name officially changed?
> 
> Got a link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.
> 
> Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.
Click to expand...

Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.


----------



## Indeependent

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.
> 
> Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian TERRITORIES . Not Palestinian country.
> 
> It was not a country before 1988.
> 
> Your constant denial of this simple fact just makes you out to look like a 9 year old.
Click to expand...


Don't insult 9 year olds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.
> 
> Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.
Click to expand...


Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.
> 
> Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
Click to expand...


Nonsense.

It has *NEVER* been a country, either nominally nor de facto.

It is, at present, a Failed State Wannabe That Never Was.

De jure, to some extent, even today, and, most certainly, de facto.

It is more closely akin to a Lunatic Asylum, with the inmates running the place into the ground.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.
> 
> Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
Click to expand...


You're a liar.


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a liar.
Click to expand...

Actually (and I could very well be wrong), I don't think Tinny is lying, per se.

I think that he's just married to the idea, and can't bring himself to divorce the old girl.

If he did that, he would have to deal with Reality.


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually (and I could very well be wrong), I don't think Tinny is lying, per se.
> 
> I think that he's just married to the idea, and can't bring himself to divorce the old girl.
> 
> If he did that, he would have to deal with Reality.
Click to expand...


If he did that, his agenda would be in shambles.


----------



## MJB12741

LOL!  While we appreciate all the laughs you give us, perhaps it would do you good to get serious for a change.


Political Geography Now: Palestine Recognized as a Country by the U.N.




P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian territories is a designation of occupation.
> 
> Occupation does not change the legal status of a country.
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vigilante

MJB12741 said:


> LOL! While we appreciate all the laughs you give us, perhaps it would do you good to get serious for a change.
> 
> 
> Political Geography Now: Palestine Recognized as a Country by the U.N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Fuck the U.N., and......


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> LOL!  While we appreciate all the laughs you give us, perhaps it would do you good to get serious for a change.
> 
> 
> Political Geography Now: Palestine Recognized as a Country by the U.N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the Palestinians are claiming they had a country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The UN does not create countries. It can only "recognize" countries that* already exist.*


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! While we appreciate all the laughs you give us, perhaps it would do you good to get serious for a change.
> 
> 
> Political Geography Now: Palestine Recognized as a Country by the U.N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN does not create countries. It can only "recognize" countries that* already exist.*
Click to expand...



Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution #181 in 1948....Better learn your history!


----------



## MJB12741

Not true!  As per the link I provided, Palestine was never recognized or designated as a country until 2012, not sice WWl as you claimed.  Sorry 'bout that but documented facts are documented facts.









P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!  While we appreciate all the laughs you give us, perhaps it would do you good to get serious for a change.
> 
> 
> Political Geography Now: Palestine Recognized as a Country by the U.N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous, Palestine has been a country since after WWI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN does not create countries. It can only "recognize" countries that* already exist.*
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! While we appreciate all the laughs you give us, perhaps it would do you good to get serious for a change.
> 
> 
> Political Geography Now: Palestine Recognized as a Country by the U.N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN does not create countries. It can only "recognize" countries that* already exist.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
Click to expand...




> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!



No it wasn't. You better learn *your* history.


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN does not create countries. It can only "recognize" countries that* already exist.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it wasn't. You better learn *your* history.
Click to expand...


It appears it WAS!

 The Plan was accepted by the Jewish public, except for its fringes, and by the Jewish Agency despite its perceived limitations.[5][6] With a few exceptions, the Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division.[8] Their reason was that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.[6][9]
*Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly,* the civil war broke out.[10] The partition plan was not implemented.[11]


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Not true!  As per the link I provided, Palestine was never recognized or designated as a country until 2012, not sice WWl as you claimed.  Sorry 'bout that but documented facts are documented facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!  While we appreciate all the laughs you give us, perhaps it would do you good to get serious for a change.
> 
> Political Geography Now: Palestine Recognized as a Country by the U.N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN does not create countries. It can only "recognize" countries that* already exist.*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Recognition by the UN, or anybody else, is a political move. It has nothing to do with the existence of countries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Vigilante said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it wasn't. You better learn *your* history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It appears it WAS!
> 
> The Plan was accepted by the Jewish public, except for its fringes, and by the Jewish Agency despite its perceived limitations.[5][6] With a few exceptions, the Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division.[8] Their reason was that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.[6][9]
> *Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly,* the civil war broke out.[10]* The partition plan was not implemented.*[11]
Click to expand...


Indeed.

*The UN had nothing to do with the creation of Israel.*


----------



## MJB12741

OMG!  How do you like that?  And hear I actually believed resolution 181 created formation of the "Jewish State Of Israel."




P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN does not create countries. It can only "recognize" countries that* already exist.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn't. You better learn *your* history.
Click to expand...


----------



## Indeependent

MJB12741 said:


> OMG!  How do you like that?  And hear I actually believed resolution 181 created formation of the "Jewish State Of Israel."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was formed by a U.N. resolution in 1948....Better learn your history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn't. You better learn *your* history.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


When 181 is good for the West Bank Jordanians, it's sacrosanct.
When it's good for the Jews, it's just a politically correct document.


----------



## Vigilante

P F Tinmore said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it wasn't. You better learn *your* history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It appears it WAS!
> 
> The Plan was accepted by the Jewish public, except for its fringes, and by the Jewish Agency despite its perceived limitations.[5][6] With a few exceptions, the Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division.[8] Their reason was that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.[6][9]
> *Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly,* the civil war broke out.[10]* The partition plan was not implemented.*[11]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> *The UN had nothing to do with the creation of Israel.*
Click to expand...


Because the plan was not implemented, DUE TO IMMEDIATE WAR, had NOTHING to do with the RESOLUTION PASSED by the General Assembly


----------



## Kondor3

In the final analysis, does any of this Happy Horseshit make the slightest bit of difference?

The Jews carved-off a piece of Old Palestine and made it their own, citing UN 181 as the basis, cherry-picking what they wanted from 181, and setting the rest aside.

The Arabs ran for the hills and failed to either (1) stand their ground or (2) simultaneously stake a claim of their own.

"_He who pees his pants and runs away, lives to regret it another day._"


----------



## P F Tinmore

The war is not over.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6xbnuOPJp0]Israeli Gov't Forms Strategy to Fight Boycott - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> The war is not over.


----------



## Roudy

> the war is not over


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> the war is not over
Click to expand...


Yeah, guns, that's nice.

However, Israel's greatest threat is now from unarmed peace activism. In this case, military might is a liability.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the war is not over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, guns, that's nice.
> 
> However, Israel's greatest threat is now from unarmed peace activism. In this case, military might is a liability.
Click to expand...


If history tells us something, it's that Palestinians fail every time.

They failed using conventional warfare, they failed using terrorism and they're going to fail every other way


----------



## MJB12741

Palestinians always have been & always will be their own worst enemies.  It's called Palestinian mentality.






toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, guns, that's nice.
> 
> However, Israel's greatest threat is now from unarmed peace activism. In this case, military might is a liability.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If history tells us something, it's that Palestinians fail every time.
> 
> They failed using conventional warfare, they failed using terrorism and they're going to fail every other way
Click to expand...


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was Jordanian occupied Palestine until 1967 then it became Israeli occupied Palestine.
> 
> What part of that confuses you?
> 
> 
> 
> What?  Run that by me again?  Jordan (Arab Palestine) occupied another Palestine?  Would that be the Jewish Palestine aka ISRAEL that Arabs refused to accept and attacked by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When did Jordan become Palestine?
> 
> When was Palestine exclusively Jewish?
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...

Idiot Tinmore forgets that early in the 1920's the League of Nations, under the administration and supervision of the British, the controlling authority of the region known as "Palestine" allocated all land west of the Jordan River to be a Jewish state, run by Jews. 

They carved out east of the Jordan river to be an Arab Palestine state, aka Jordan.   Greedy Arabs took that, and then they decided to go for it all by attacking Israel, not to create this fictional state of "Palestine", but to divide Israel between themselves. It didn't quite work out that way, and the rest of course is history.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the war is not over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, guns, that's nice.
> 
> However, Israel's greatest threat is now from unarmed peace activism. In this case, military might is a liability.
Click to expand...

The boycott movement is collapsing, you moron.  Even the Palestinian leadership has started dissing it as a bunch of disorderly thugs which are harmful to the Palestinian economy. Ha ha ha.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> What?  Run that by me again?  Jordan (Arab Palestine) occupied another Palestine?  Would that be the Jewish Palestine aka ISRAEL that Arabs refused to accept and attacked by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jordan become Palestine?
> 
> When was Palestine exclusively Jewish?
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Idiot Tinmore forgets that early in the 1920's the League of Nations, under the administration and supervision of the British, the controlling authority of the region known as "Palestine" allocated all land west of the Jordan River to be a Jewish state, run by Jews.
> 
> They carved out east of the Jordan river to be an Arab Palestine state, aka Jordan.   Greedy Arabs took that, and then they decided to go for it all by attacking Israel, not to create this fictional state of "Palestine", but to divide Israel between themselves. It didn't quite work out that way, and the rest of course is history.
Click to expand...


Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel?

Link?


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> _Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel? Link?_


Doubtful.

More likely, he's saying that that land was allocated-to or promised-to the Jews, by the League of Nations, in the form of the proposal he illustrated.

The Jews took this promise at face-value, acted upon it some years later in 1948, and have continued to pursue it for the past 66 years.

You can argue that it wasn't the League's land to give, until you're blue in the face.

It won't do you the slightest bit of good.

The Jews acted.

The Arabs ran.

The land belongs to the Jews now.

By force of arms.

It's time for your silly little rag-tag band of Arabs to pack up and head for greener pastures.

Before they're thrown out.

No link required.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel? Link?_
> 
> 
> 
> Doubtful.
> 
> More likely, he's saying that that land was allocated-to or promised-to the Jews, by the League of Nations, in the form of the proposal he illustrated.
> 
> The Jews took this promise at face-value, acted upon it some years later in 1948, and have continued to pursue it for the past 66 years.
> 
> You can argue that it wasn't the League's land to give, until you're blue in the face.
> 
> It won't do you the slightest bit of good.
> 
> The Jews acted.
> 
> The Arabs ran.
> 
> The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.
> 
> It's time for your silly little rag-tag band of Arabs to pack up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> Before they're thrown out.
> 
> No link required.
Click to expand...




> *The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.*



Contradictory statement. It is illegal to acquire land through the threat or use of force.

That is still legally Palestinian land.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jordan become Palestine?
> 
> When was Palestine exclusively Jewish?
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot Tinmore forgets that early in the 1920's the League of Nations, under the administration and supervision of the British, the controlling authority of the region known as "Palestine" allocated all land west of the Jordan River to be a Jewish state, run by Jews.
> 
> They carved out east of the Jordan river to be an Arab Palestine state, aka Jordan.   Greedy Arabs took that, and then they decided to go for it all by attacking Israel, not to create this fictional state of "Palestine", but to divide Israel between themselves. It didn't quite work out that way, and the rest of course is history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Israel and Jordan were supposed to be "Jewish Palestine" but after the Arab protests, they decided to make Jordan the Arab Palestine and Israel the Jewish Palestine as per above. The problem began from Arab hatred and intolerance and never ended from there.  Muslims cannot coexist with non Muslims, if they're not ruling or oppressing them, then they have to kill them.  This conflict has never been about "land".

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1922mandate.html

An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organisation, so long as its organisation and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot Tinmore forgets that early in the 1920's the League of Nations, under the administration and supervision of the British, the controlling authority of the region known as "Palestine" allocated all land west of the Jordan River to be a Jewish state, run by Jews.
> 
> They carved out east of the Jordan river to be an Arab Palestine state, aka Jordan.   Greedy Arabs took that, and then they decided to go for it all by attacking Israel, not to create this fictional state of "Palestine", but to divide Israel between themselves. It didn't quite work out that way, and the rest of course is history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel and Jordan were supposed to be "Jewish Palestine" but after the Arab protests, they decided to make Jordan the Arab Palestine and Israel the Jewish Palestine as per above. The problem began from Arab hatred and intolerance and never ended from there.  Muslims cannot coexist with non Muslims, if they're not ruling or oppressing them, then they have to kill them.  This conflict has never been about "land".
> 
> Modern History Sourcebook: League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, July 24, 1922
> 
> An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organisation, so long as its organisation and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
Click to expand...


This post contradicts your previous post.


----------



## MJB12741

Outstanding point!  Yes you are correct.  All Muslim lands are illegal having been acquired by "threat or use of force."  Anyone disagree?





P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel? Link?_
> 
> 
> 
> Doubtful.
> 
> More likely, he's saying that that land was allocated-to or promised-to the Jews, by the League of Nations, in the form of the proposal he illustrated.
> 
> The Jews took this promise at face-value, acted upon it some years later in 1948, and have continued to pursue it for the past 66 years.
> 
> You can argue that it wasn't the League's land to give, until you're blue in the face.
> 
> It won't do you the slightest bit of good.
> 
> The Jews acted.
> 
> The Arabs ran.
> 
> The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.
> 
> It's time for your silly little rag-tag band of Arabs to pack up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> Before they're thrown out.
> 
> No link required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Contradictory statement. It is illegal to acquire land through the threat or use of force.
> 
> That is still legally Palestinian land.
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

_et al,_

There is no unapportioned territory left from the Mandate and Trustee Period.

The have all been recognized as claimed under various rights of self-determination and treaties.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jordan become Palestine?
> 
> When was Palestine exclusively Jewish?
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot Tinmore forgets that early in the 1920's the League of Nations, under the administration and supervision of the British, the controlling authority of the region known as "Palestine" allocated all land west of the Jordan River to be a Jewish state, run by Jews.
> 
> They carved out east of the Jordan river to be an Arab Palestine state, aka Jordan.   Greedy Arabs took that, and then they decided to go for it all by attacking Israel, not to create this fictional state of "Palestine", but to divide Israel between themselves. It didn't quite work out that way, and the rest of course is history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


For the 100 th time Tinmore, land transfer has nothing to do anything. 
Land transfer is a real estate issue.

You keep spouting the lie that no land was transfered to Israel, therefore it's not theirs. But YOU made that up. That is a Tinmore prerequisite for a country to declare indepndence.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did Jordan become Palestine?
> 
> When was Palestine exclusively Jewish?
> 
> Links?
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot Tinmore forgets that early in the 1920's the League of Nations, under the administration and supervision of the British, the controlling authority of the region known as "Palestine" allocated all land west of the Jordan River to be a Jewish state, run by Jews.
> 
> They carved out east of the Jordan river to be an Arab Palestine state, aka Jordan.   Greedy Arabs took that, and then they decided to go for it all by attacking Israel, not to create this fictional state of "Palestine", but to divide Israel between themselves. It didn't quite work out that way, and the rest of course is history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...





 Are you trying to say that the same treaties that you hold up as showing Palestine was a nation are not valid when they show the proposed JEWISH NATIONAL HOME. 

 What a complete moron you are showing yourself to be tinman


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel? Link?_
> 
> 
> 
> Doubtful.
> 
> More likely, he's saying that that land was allocated-to or promised-to the Jews, by the League of Nations, in the form of the proposal he illustrated.
> 
> The Jews took this promise at face-value, acted upon it some years later in 1948, and have continued to pursue it for the past 66 years.
> 
> You can argue that it wasn't the League's land to give, until you're blue in the face.
> 
> It won't do you the slightest bit of good.
> 
> The Jews acted.
> 
> The Arabs ran.
> 
> The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.
> 
> It's time for your silly little rag-tag band of Arabs to pack up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> Before they're thrown out.
> 
> No link required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Contradictory statement. It is illegal to acquire land through the threat or use of force.
> 
> That is still legally Palestinian land.
Click to expand...





 Try again as that did not become international law until 1949, before that time you could seize land and hold it as your own. 


 What a moron you are showing yourself to be tinman


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel and Jordan were supposed to be "Jewish Palestine" but after the Arab protests, they decided to make Jordan the Arab Palestine and Israel the Jewish Palestine as per above. The problem began from Arab hatred and intolerance and never ended from there.  Muslims cannot coexist with non Muslims, if they're not ruling or oppressing them, then they have to kill them.  This conflict has never been about "land".
> 
> Modern History Sourcebook: League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, July 24, 1922
> 
> An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the country.
> 
> The Zionist organisation, so long as its organisation and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This post contradicts your previous post.
Click to expand...





 Only in your eyes because you are losing every argument


----------



## montelatici

_Israel and Jordan were supposed to be "Jewish Palestine"_

It never ever was to be Jewish Palestine.  A Jewish national home was to be created within Palestine and the vast majority of the inhabitants, being non-Jewish, were not to be ruled by Jews.


----------



## Phoenall

montelatici said:


> _Israel and Jordan were supposed to be "Jewish Palestine"_
> 
> It never ever was to be Jewish Palestine.  A Jewish national home was to be created within Palestine and the vast majority of the inhabitants, being non-Jewish, were not to be ruled by Jews.





 Here we go again the proof that the child does not like

















 What have you to say now child about the real acts


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> _Israel and Jordan were supposed to be "Jewish Palestine"_
> 
> It never ever was to be Jewish Palestine.  A Jewish national home was to be created within Palestine and the vast majority of the inhabitants, being non-Jewish, were not to be ruled by Jews.


Jewish Palestine aka Israel was to be the Jewish national home, to be totally ruled and run by Jews, you friggin ignorant IslamoNazi moron.


----------



## MJB12741

We must be careful not to offend them too much with the truth.  If we do, they may leave us.  Then where will we go for laughs?





Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Israel and Jordan were supposed to be "Jewish Palestine"_
> 
> It never ever was to be Jewish Palestine.  A Jewish national home was to be created within Palestine and the vast majority of the inhabitants, being non-Jewish, were not to be ruled by Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again the proof that the child does not like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What have you to say now child about the real acts
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Are you trying to say That all of that land was transferred to Israel? Link?_
> 
> 
> 
> Doubtful.
> 
> More likely, he's saying that that land was allocated-to or promised-to the Jews, by the League of Nations, in the form of the proposal he illustrated.
> 
> The Jews took this promise at face-value, acted upon it some years later in 1948, and have continued to pursue it for the past 66 years.
> 
> You can argue that it wasn't the League's land to give, until you're blue in the face.
> 
> It won't do you the slightest bit of good.
> 
> The Jews acted.
> 
> The Arabs ran.
> 
> The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.
> 
> It's time for your silly little rag-tag band of Arabs to pack up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> Before they're thrown out.
> 
> No link required.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Contradictory statement. *It is illegal to acquire land through the threat or use of force.*
> 
> That is still legally Palestinian land.
Click to expand...

Again, not directed at you personally...

==============================

*Fuck the old Legal standing, prior to 1948...*

It belongs to the Jews now...

If you want it, you must take it back...

If you cannot, you must shut the <bleep> up...

Or move...

Or die...

It is all up to you...

I'm sure that any of those three choices will be just fine...

There is no going back...

And you will not be allowed to remain in-place much longer..

Old legalities no longer mean anything...

And haven't, for several decades now...

Right of Return doesn't mean anything, either...

And hasn't, since 1949...

Welcome back to Reality...

==============================

The lesson for the Palestinians is: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"

Should have made a fight of it, or, at least, issued a simultaneous Declaration of Statehood, while you still could.

Oh well... you snooze, you lose... no do-overs allowed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doubtful.
> 
> More likely, he's saying that that land was allocated-to or promised-to the Jews, by the League of Nations, in the form of the proposal he illustrated.
> 
> The Jews took this promise at face-value, acted upon it some years later in 1948, and have continued to pursue it for the past 66 years.
> 
> You can argue that it wasn't the League's land to give, until you're blue in the face.
> 
> It won't do you the slightest bit of good.
> 
> The Jews acted.
> 
> The Arabs ran.
> 
> The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.
> 
> It's time for your silly little rag-tag band of Arabs to pack up and head for greener pastures.
> 
> Before they're thrown out.
> 
> No link required.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The land belongs to the Jews now.
> 
> By force of arms.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Contradictory statement. It is illegal to acquire land through the threat or use of force.
> 
> That is still legally Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as that did not become international law until 1949, before that time you could seize land and hold it as your own.
> 
> 
> What a moron you are showing yourself to be tinman
Click to expand...


It was still Palestine in 1949.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contradictory statement. It is illegal to acquire land through the threat or use of force.
> 
> That is still legally Palestinian land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as that did not become international law until 1949, before that time you could seize land and hold it as your own.
> 
> 
> What a moron you are showing yourself to be tinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was still Palestine in 1949.
Click to expand...





 So was trans Jordan and Syria. And it did not count when Jordan annexed the west bank and stole Jerusalem. So by the same rules it did not count when Israel won the land unclaimed by the arab muslims in 1948/1949.

 By the way it is still Palestine today according to your posts, and this includes Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon as they were all part of the Palestine who's borders were defined in 1920, and then ripped away when these nations were regurgitated into existence


----------



## MJB12741

You can bet your bottom dollar that if Canada or Mexico attacked the USA we would gain new land for security & build settlements on it.






Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try again as that did not become international law until 1949, before that time you could seize land and hold it as your own.
> 
> 
> What a moron you are showing yourself to be tinman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was still Palestine in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So was trans Jordan and Syria. And it did not count when Jordan annexed the west bank and stole Jerusalem. So by the same rules it did not count when Israel won the land unclaimed by the arab muslims in 1948/1949.
> 
> By the way it is still Palestine today according to your posts, and this includes Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon as they were all part of the Palestine who's borders were defined in 1920, and then ripped away when these nations were regurgitated into existence
Click to expand...


----------



## aris2chat

tin is just making noise for noise sake.


----------



## MJB12741

Well, at least he is funny.  I give him due credit for a great sense of humor.





aris2chat said:


> tin is just making noise for noise sake.


----------



## MJB12741

So here we are with over 1900 replies & still much confusion & disagreement as to "who are the Palestinians"?  Some say they are the direct descendents of the ancient Sumerians.  Others say they are direct descendents of the ancient Akkadians.  Next it was direct descendents of the ancient Canaanites.  And then direct descendents of the ancient Phillistines.  What's next?  They are the direct descendents of the Lost Tribes of Israel?  Heh Heh!


----------



## MJB12741

Does everyone agree that there is no agreeable explanation as to Who Are The Palestinians other than there were no Muslim Palestinians at all in Israel's land since antiquity?





MJB12741 said:


> So here we are with over 1900 replies & still much confusion & disagreement as to "who are the Palestinians"?  Some say they are the direct descendents of the ancient Sumerians.  Others say they are direct descendents of the ancient Akkadians.  Next it was direct descendents of the ancient Canaanites.  And then direct descendents of the ancient Phillistines.  What's next?  They are the direct descendents of the Lost Tribes of Israel?  Heh Heh!


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Does everyone agree that there is no agreeable explanation as to Who Are The Palestinians other than there were no Muslim Palestinians at all in Israel's land since antiquity?


I showed you the official land records of that area in 1948 and yet, you still insist on peddling that bullshit?


----------



## MJB12741

HUH?  What does 1948 have to do with the fact there were no Muslim Palestinians in Israel's ancient land?  Are you trying to prove my point that they are invaders?





Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does everyone agree that there is no agreeable explanation as to Who Are The Palestinians other than there were no Muslim Palestinians at all in Israel's land since antiquity?
> 
> 
> 
> I showed you the official land records of that area in 1948 and yet, you still insist on peddling that bullshit?
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> HUH?  What does 1948 have to do with the fact there were no Muslim Palestinians in Israel's ancient land?  Are you trying to prove my point that they are invaders?


Here's the population figures in 1948, which clearly show you're full of shit!


----------



## MJB12741

Aw, bless you again for proving my point that were no Muslim Palestinians at all in ancient Israel & that they have become invaders on Israel's land which can be proven by looking at population figures since 1948.




Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HUH?  What does 1948 have to do with the fact there were no Muslim Palestinians in Israel's ancient land?  Are you trying to prove my point that they are invaders?
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the population figures in 1948, which clearly show you're full of shit!
Click to expand...


----------



## Kondor3

And just think, the Jews did all that in 1948-1948 with so few, and so little. Cool.

Main lesson of the Nakba: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"


----------



## MJB12741

There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.






Kondor3 said:


> And just think, the Jews did all that in 1948-1948 with so few, and so little. Cool.
> 
> Main lesson of the Nakba: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And just think, the Jews did all that in 1948-1948 with so few, and so little. Cool.
> 
> Main lesson of the Nakba: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"
Click to expand...


And the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.

Oh wait...were they called Jews then? I don't think so.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And just think, the Jews did all that in 1948-1948 with so few, and so little. Cool.
> 
> Main lesson of the Nakba: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.
> 
> Oh wait...were they called Jews then? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Thimk again,Tinny. Thimk again.


Israelite noun    (Concise Encyclopedia)
In early Jewish history, a member of the 12 tribes of Israel. After the establishment (930 BC) of two Jewish kingdoms (Israel and Judah) in Palestine, only the ten northern tribes constituting the kingdom of Israel were known as Israelites. When Israel was conquered by the Assyrians (721 BC), its population was absorbed by other peoples, and the term Israelite came to refer to those who were still distinctively Jewishthe descendants of the kingdom of Judah. In liturgical usage, an Israelite is a Jew who is neither a cohen nor a Levite (see Levi).


----------



## Roudy

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.
> 
> Oh wait...were they called Jews then? I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thimk again,Tinny. Thimk again.
> 
> 
> Israelite noun    (Concise Encyclopedia)
> In early Jewish history, a member of the 12 tribes of Israel. After the establishment (930 BC) of two Jewish kingdoms (Israel and Judah) in Palestine, only the ten northern tribes constituting the kingdom of Israel were known as Israelites. When Israel was conquered by the Assyrians (721 BC), its population was absorbed by other peoples, and the term Israelite came to refer to those who were still distinctively Jewishthe descendants of the kingdom of Judah. In liturgical usage, an Israelite is a Jew who is neither a cohen nor a Levite (see Levi).
Click to expand...

Well the Jews sure as hell weren't called Arabs.  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Sally

Roudy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.
> 
> Oh wait...were they called Jews then? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> Thimk again,Tinny. Thimk again.
> 
> 
> Israelite noun    (Concise Encyclopedia)
> In early Jewish history, a member of the 12 tribes of Israel. After the establishment (930 BC) of two Jewish kingdoms (Israel and Judah) in Palestine, only the ten northern tribes constituting the kingdom of Israel were known as Israelites. When Israel was conquered by the Assyrians (721 BC), its population was absorbed by other peoples, and the term Israelite came to refer to those who were still distinctively Jewishthe descendants of the kingdom of Judah. In liturgical usage, an Israelite is a Jew who is neither a cohen nor a Levite (see Levi).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well the Jews sure as hell weren't called Arabs.  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


And the Arabs certainly weren't called Palestinians, as one former poster, a retired State Department employee, once explained.

Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sally said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thimk again,Tinny. Thimk again.
> 
> 
> Israelite noun    (Concise Encyclopedia)
> In early Jewish history, a member of the 12 tribes of Israel. After the establishment (930 BC) of two Jewish kingdoms (Israel and Judah) in Palestine, only the ten northern tribes constituting the kingdom of Israel were known as Israelites. When Israel was conquered by the Assyrians (721 BC), its population was absorbed by other peoples, and the term Israelite came to refer to those who were still distinctively Jewishthe descendants of the kingdom of Judah. In liturgical usage, an Israelite is a Jew who is neither a cohen nor a Levite (see Levi).
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Jews sure as hell weren't called Arabs.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the Arabs certainly weren't called Palestinians, as one former poster, a retired State Department employee, once explained.
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. *It was invented in the 1960s *in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
Click to expand...


Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And just think, the Jews did all that in 1948-1948 with so few, and so little. Cool.
> 
> Main lesson of the Nakba: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.
> 
> Oh wait...were they called Jews then? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


they escaped egypt but did not originate from there.
Abraham and his father were from Mitanni, south east turkey was their heart land but it expanded south along the levant.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And just think, the Jews did all that in 1948-1948 with so few, and so little. Cool.
> 
> Main lesson of the Nakba: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.
> 
> Oh wait...were they called Jews then? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

We're talking 1948.

You're talking 1200 B.C.

Then again, maybe the Palestinians will find their courage, in another 3,000 years, and make good.

Think they can hold together that long, like the Jews did?

Think they can survive 2,000 years of Diaspora and still have a unique identity - in light of the fact that that identity was only invented for them within the realm of living memory?

Somehow, I doubt it.


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Too little - too late.



P F Tinmore said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Jews sure as hell weren't called Arabs.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs certainly weren't called Palestinians, as one former poster, a retired State Department employee, once explained.
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. *It was invented in the 1960s *in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The UN Partition Plan was already in effect.   The APG tried to declare independence over territory already declared independent under Israel; months after the fact (SEPT '48 ).  It was a bumbling Arab attempt to circumvent the Partition Plan that failed after the failed invasion by the Arab League.

Don't be ridiculous.  Not even the Arab League recognized it as having any legitimacy.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the Jews sure as hell weren't called Arabs.  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs certainly weren't called Palestinians, as one former poster, a retired State Department employee, once explained.
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. *It was invented in the 1960s *in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*
Click to expand...


A Palestinian state was only declared in 1988. How many times are you going to peddle the same lie?

We have links, you have lies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Too little - too late.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs certainly weren't called Palestinians, as one former poster, a retired State Department employee, once explained.
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. *It was invented in the 1960s *in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UN Partition Plan was already in effect.   The APG tried to declare independence over territory already declared independent under Israel; months after the fact (SEPT '48 ).  It was a bumbling Arab attempt to circumvent the Partition Plan that failed after the failed invasion by the Arab League.
> 
> Don't be ridiculous.  Not even the Arab League recognized it as having any legitimacy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Load of crap, Rocco. The Palestinians did not declare independence on any Israeli territory.

The Arab states, except for Jordan who was promised the West Bank, recognized Palestine.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Too little - too late.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UN Partition Plan was already in effect.   The APG tried to declare independence over territory already declared independent under Israel; months after the fact (SEPT '48 ).  It was a bumbling Arab attempt to circumvent the Partition Plan that failed after the failed invasion by the Arab League.
> 
> Don't be ridiculous.  Not even the Arab League recognized it as having any legitimacy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Load of crap, Rocco. The Palestinians did not declare independence on any Israeli territory.
> 
> The Arab states, except for Jordan who was promised the West Bank, recognized Palestine.
Click to expand...


Yes they did !! This is not up for debate !

How dare you call Rocco;s post a crock of crap when he peaks the truth while you lie !


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And just think, the Jews did all that in 1948-1948 with so few, and so little. Cool.
> 
> Main lesson of the Nakba: "_He who pees his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, another day._"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the Jews were immigrants from Egypt.
> 
> Oh wait...were they called Jews then? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


The Children of Yisroel (Israel) aka Yaakov (Jacob).


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sally said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs certainly weren't called Palestinians, as one former poster, a retired State Department employee, once explained.
> 
> Sure there was a Palestine. *It was invented in the 1960s *in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Palestinian state was only declared in 1988. How many times are you going to peddle the same lie?
> 
> We have links, you have lies.
Click to expand...




> *PALESTINE PROGRESS REPORT OF THE UNITED NATIONS
> MEDIATOR ON PALESTINE
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
> ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
> CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT*​
> 
> 28 September 1948​
> 
> *I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES*
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948



So where is the lie? Also:



> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian state was only declared in 1988. How many times are you going to peddle the same lie?
> 
> We have links, you have lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PALESTINE PROGRESS REPORT OF THE UNITED NATIONS
> MEDIATOR ON PALESTINE
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
> ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
> CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT*​
> 
> 28 September 1948​
> 
> *I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES*
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​
> A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where is the lie? Also:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You know very well that DOI was not valid. Even the Palestinians say that their DOI was in 1988! 

Answer this question with a yes or no: Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ?


----------



## toastman

Palestinian Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Legal justification for the declaration was based on United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947*


Two of your lies busted in one post. 

Why do I even bother with you when you bring up stuff that I have already proved wrong .


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian state was only declared in 1988. How many times are you going to peddle the same lie?
> 
> We have links, you have lies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where is the lie? Also:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 3*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know very well that DOI was not valid. Even the Palestinians say that their DOI was in 1988!
> 
> Answer this question with a yes or no: Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ?
Click to expand...


What was not valid?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So where is the lie? Also:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know very well that DOI was not valid. Even the Palestinians say that their DOI was in 1988!
> 
> Answer this question with a yes or no: Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was not valid?
Click to expand...


Answer the question:

Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ??


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know very well that DOI was not valid. Even the Palestinians say that their DOI was in 1988!
> 
> Answer this question with a yes or no: Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was not valid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Answer the question:
> 
> Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ??
Click to expand...


The PLO did without consulting the people.

What made the 1988 declaration valid and the 1948 declaration not?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was not valid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer the question:
> 
> Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The PLO did without consulting the people.
> 
> What made the 1988 declaration valid and the 1948 declaration not?
Click to expand...


How exactly does one "consult the people"?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was not valid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer the question:
> 
> Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The PLO did without consulting the people.
> 
> What made the 1988 declaration valid and the 1948 declaration not?
Click to expand...


You know the answer to that question so stop asking it. 

So you finally admit that the declared independence in 1988. 
But with you there is always some bullshit quirk. 
Where does it say that they didn't consult the people ? and how is that relevant ?


----------



## toastman

A/43/930-S/20320 of 12 December 1988

Even your own website shows the 1988 DOI


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Answer the question:
> 
> Did the Palestinians declare independence in 1988 ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO did without consulting the people.
> 
> What made the 1988 declaration valid and the 1948 declaration not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How exactly does one "consult the people"?
Click to expand...


You address my post first then I will address yours.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO did without consulting the people.
> 
> What made the 1988 declaration valid and the 1948 declaration not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly does one "consult the people"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You address my post first then I will address yours.
Click to expand...


I have many times. So has Rocco. You know VERY WELL what the answer is. 
I have told you many times that I will not continue having friendly debates with you if you keep playing stupid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly does one "consult the people"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You address my post first then I will address yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have many times. So has Rocco. You know VERY WELL what the answer is.
> I have told you many times that I will not continue having friendly debates with you if you keep playing stupid.
Click to expand...


You always say that when it is you who cannot answer a question.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You address my post first then I will address yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have many times. So has Rocco. You know VERY WELL what the answer is.
> I have told you many times that I will not continue having friendly debates with you if you keep playing stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You always say that when it is you who cannot answer a question.
Click to expand...


Because I answered the question many many many times! 
You already know what I'm going to say. Rocco said it earlier.

In 1948, they tried to declare independence on land ALREADY DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ISRAEL.
Which is something you deny. You simply cannot accept the truth because it will mess up your agenda.

So if they declared independence in 1948 ,and it was valid, why did they need to do it again in 1988 ?


----------



## MJB12741

Let us not forget that there was no Israel until 1948.  You see, that's when they became "the ISRAELITES".  and if you don't believe it just ask Tinmore, Amity & Billy boy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have many times. So has Rocco. You know VERY WELL what the answer is.
> I have told you many times that I will not continue having friendly debates with you if you keep playing stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You always say that when it is you who cannot answer a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I answered the question many many many times!
> You already know what I'm going to say. Rocco said it earlier.
> 
> In 1948, they tried to declare independence on land ALREADY DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ISRAEL.
> Which is something you deny. You simply cannot accept the truth because it will mess up your agenda.
Click to expand...

That is not true.

The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.



> So if they declared independence in 1948 ,and it was valid, why did they need to do it again in 1988 ?



Good question. I never could understand that move.

Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You always say that when it is you who cannot answer a question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I answered the question many many many times!
> You already know what I'm going to say. Rocco said it earlier.
> 
> In 1948, they tried to declare independence on land ALREADY DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ISRAEL.
> Which is something you deny. You simply cannot accept the truth because it will mess up your agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if they declared independence in 1948 ,and it was valid, why did they need to do it again in 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
Click to expand...



Not true ? Nobody has proved otherwise? You;re a liar Tinmore, and you know it.

Are you trying to say that Israel DID NOT declare independence on that land already BEFORE the Palestinians did ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because I answered the question many many many times!
> You already know what I'm going to say. Rocco said it earlier.
> 
> In 1948, they tried to declare independence on land ALREADY DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ISRAEL.
> Which is something you deny. You simply cannot accept the truth because it will mess up your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if they declared independence in 1948 ,and it was valid, why did they need to do it again in 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not true ? Nobody has proved otherwise? You;re a liar Tinmore, and you know it.
> 
> Are you trying to say that Israel DID NOT declare independence on that land already BEFORE the Palestinians did ?
Click to expand...


Show me where Palestine's declared borders overlapped Israels declared borders.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You always say that when it is you who cannot answer a question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I answered the question many many many times!
> You already know what I'm going to say. Rocco said it earlier.
> 
> In 1948, they tried to declare independence on land ALREADY DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ISRAEL.
> Which is something you deny. You simply cannot accept the truth because it will mess up your agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if they declared independence in 1948 ,and it was valid, why did they need to do it again in 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
Click to expand...





 The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist. so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination. 

 Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true ? Nobody has proved otherwise? You;re a liar Tinmore, and you know it.
> 
> Are you trying to say that Israel DID NOT declare independence on that land already BEFORE the Palestinians did ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show me where Palestine's declared borders overlapped Israels declared borders.
Click to expand...





 How can we show something that had not existed since 1921 when trans Jordan was formed inside the false Palestinian borders created for that purpose. The only borders Palestine can have are those they negotiate with their neighbours.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because I answered the question many many many times!
> You already know what I'm going to say. Rocco said it earlier.
> 
> In 1948, they tried to declare independence on land ALREADY DECLARED INDEPENDENT BY ISRAEL.
> Which is something you deny. You simply cannot accept the truth because it will mess up your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if they declared independence in 1948 ,and it was valid, why did they need to do it again in 1988 ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. *As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist.* so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination.
> 
> Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988
Click to expand...


Can you back that up with a link?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true ? Nobody has proved otherwise? You;re a liar Tinmore, and you know it.
> 
> Are you trying to say that Israel DID NOT declare independence on that land already BEFORE the Palestinians did ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show me where Palestine's declared borders overlapped Israels declared borders.
Click to expand...


Who said anything about borders???

Look at the fuckin dates. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 while 'Palestine' tried to declare independence in September on 1948 which was four months AFTER Israel declared independence. 
Weather you like it or not, weather you recognize it or not or weather the Palestinians like it or not, Israel declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan. There is no arguing that. If you have a link that says otherwise, please show me. If not, then admit you're wrong .

And again, the Palestinians declared independence in 1988. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.


----------



## amity1844

You say its a good point ... I am not sure what your point is.  

Obviously they needed to declare independence because of the time elapsed and the fact that an entire new regime is in place.  When Israel wanted to establish itself, did they say "We don't need to declare independence, we are simply the same state as in 70 AD." ???


----------



## toastman

amity1844 said:


> You say its a good point ... I am not sure what your point is.
> 
> Obviously they needed to declare independence because of the time elapsed and the fact that an entire new regime is in place.  When Israel wanted to establish itself, did they say "We don't need to declare independence, we are simply the same state as in 70 AD." ???



Ignoring what you read in this thread, do a little quick research yourself right now, and tell me when was the Palestinian declaration of independence...


----------



## amity1844

Toastman, I don't believe Palestine is independent by any definition, so maybe that has something to do with it.  They do not maintain diplomatic relations, they are not handling their own external security, etc.


----------



## toastman

amity1844 said:


> Toastman, I don't believe Palestine is independent by any definition, so maybe that has something to do with it.  They do not maintain diplomatic relations, they are not handling their own external security, etc.



I understand, but please google it or whatever, and let me know the exact date of the Palestinian declaration of independence.


----------



## amity1844

toastman said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Toastman, I don't believe Palestine is independent by any definition, so maybe that has something to do with it.  They do not maintain diplomatic relations, they are not handling their own external security, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand, but please google it or whatever, and let me know the exact date of the Palestinian declaration of independence.
Click to expand...


Has there been one?


----------



## toastman

amity1844 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Toastman, I don't believe Palestine is independent by any definition, so maybe that has something to do with it.  They do not maintain diplomatic relations, they are not handling their own external security, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand, but please google it or whatever, and let me know the exact date of the Palestinian declaration of independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Has there been one?
Click to expand...


Google it and you will see.


----------



## amity1844

So how many nations have recognized it so far?


----------



## Hossfly

amity1844 said:


> So how many nations have recognized it so far?


You're an impertinent critter and smarmy to boot. You were asked a simple, civil question.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> Toastman, I don't believe Palestine is independent by any definition, so maybe that has something to do with it.  They do not maintain diplomatic relations, they are not handling their own external security, etc.


Probably has something to do with the idea that the Palestinians would screw-up a two-car hillbilly funeral...


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PLO did without consulting the people.
> 
> What made the 1988 declaration valid and the 1948 declaration not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly does one "consult the people"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You address my post first then I will address yours.
Click to expand...


I actually work for a living and my mind is honed to tune out bullshit.

How exactly does one "consult the people"?


----------



## Kondor3

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly does one "consult the people"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You address my post first then I will address yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually work for a living and my mind is honed to tune out bullshit.
> 
> How exactly does one "consult the people"?
Click to expand...

No, Tinny, the guy's right...

Time for you to man-up and give a straight answer...

How does one 'consult the people'?


----------



## MJB12741

In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN.  Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers.  I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state.  Do you?

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]





Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. *As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist.* so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination.
> 
> Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988
Click to expand...


Can you back that up with a link?[/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true ? Nobody has proved otherwise? You;re a liar Tinmore, and you know it.
> 
> Are you trying to say that Israel DID NOT declare independence on that land already BEFORE the Palestinians did ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me where Palestine's declared borders overlapped Israels declared borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who said anything about borders???
> 
> Look at the fuckin dates. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 while 'Palestine' tried to declare independence in September on 1948 which was four months AFTER Israel declared independence.
> Weather you like it or not, weather you recognize it or not or weather the Palestinians like it or not,* Israel declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan. *There is no arguing that. If you have a link that says otherwise, please show me. If not, then admit you're wrong .
> 
> And again, the Palestinians declared independence in 1988. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
Click to expand...


But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.

And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me where Palestine's declared borders overlapped Israels declared borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about borders???
> 
> Look at the fuckin dates. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 while 'Palestine' tried to declare independence in September on 1948 which was four months AFTER Israel declared independence.
> Weather you like it or not, weather you recognize it or not or weather the Palestinians like it or not,* Israel declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan. *There is no arguing that. If you have a link that says otherwise, please show me. If not, then admit you're wrong .
> 
> And again, the Palestinians declared independence in 1988. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.
> 
> And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.
Click to expand...


Doesn't matter if it HAPPENED or not. And how is it a worthless statement if it is the truth?? Do you have a link that says otherwise? I know Israel did not declare borders right away, but that is irrelevant.

Remember this statement from that link you always used ( forgot the name):
'Israel legally declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan'

I understand that YOU don't recognize Israel's declaration , but that doesn't matter. I've already shown you other links that say just that, yet you STILL deny it.

I have links, you have repetitive lies.


----------



## toastman

MJB12741 said:


> In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN.  Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers.  I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state.  Do you?
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. I never could understand that move.
> 
> Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. *As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist.* so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination.
> 
> Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you back that up with a link?
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

I'll never understand why Tinmore asks us for links.

He's asked me for a link that proves Israel has borders. I showed him several, he still denies it.
He asked me for a link that Resolution 181 was used by Israel and Palestine. I showed him several, he still denies it.
And when I use a link to back up my statement, he still claims I'm wrong and he's right, even though he doesn't provide me with a link to disprove what I said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about borders???
> 
> Look at the fuckin dates. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 while 'Palestine' tried to declare independence in September on 1948 which was four months AFTER Israel declared independence.
> Weather you like it or not, weather you recognize it or not or weather the Palestinians like it or not,* Israel declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan. *There is no arguing that. If you have a link that says otherwise, please show me. If not, then admit you're wrong .
> 
> And again, the Palestinians declared independence in 1988. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.
> 
> And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter if it HAPPENED or not. And how is it a worthless statement if it is the truth?? Do you have a link that says otherwise? *I know Israel did not declare borders right away, but that is irrelevant.*
> 
> Remember this statement from that link you always used ( forgot the name):
> 'Israel legally declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan'
> 
> I understand that YOU don't recognize Israel's declaration , but that doesn't matter. I've already shown you other links that say just that, yet you STILL deny it.
> 
> I have links, you have repetitive lies.
Click to expand...


I said that the Palestinians did not declare their state on any Israeli land.

Now you are saying that Israel claimed no land.

Thanks for proving my point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN.  Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers.  I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state.  Do you?
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. *As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist.* so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination.
> 
> Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you back that up with a link?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I'll never understand why Tinmore asks us for links.

He's asked me for a link that proves Israel has borders. I showed him several, he still denies it.
*He asked me for a link that Resolution 181 was used by Israel and Palestine. I showed him several, he still denies it.*
And when I use a link to back up my statement, he still claims I'm wrong and he's right, even though he doesn't provide me with a link to disprove what I said.[/QUOTE]

Neither Israel nor Palestine have a state based on the proposed borders of resolution 181.

Your statement is pointless.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.
> 
> And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter if it HAPPENED or not. And how is it a worthless statement if it is the truth?? Do you have a link that says otherwise? *I know Israel did not declare borders right away, but that is irrelevant.*
> 
> Remember this statement from that link you always used ( forgot the name):
> 'Israel legally declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan'
> 
> I understand that YOU don't recognize Israel's declaration , but that doesn't matter. I've already shown you other links that say just that, yet you STILL deny it.
> 
> I have links, you have repetitive lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said that the Palestinians did not declare their state on any Israeli land.
> 
> Now you are saying that Israel claimed no land.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point.
Click to expand...


I did not say Israel claimed no land. The did. The land that was allotted to them in 181.

And the Palestinians declared independence on the SAME LAND ( tried to) 4 months later. 

Where's your links that show Israel didn't declare independence on the land allotted to them in the partition plan?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN.  Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers.  I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state.  Do you?
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]
> 
> Can you back that up with a link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll never understand why Tinmore asks us for links.
> 
> He's asked me for a link that proves Israel has borders. I showed him several, he still denies it.
> *He asked me for a link that Resolution 181 was used by Israel and Palestine. I showed him several, he still denies it.*
> And when I use a link to back up my statement, he still claims I'm wrong and he's right, even though he doesn't provide me with a link to disprove what I said.
Click to expand...


Neither Israel nor Palestine have a state based on the proposed borders of resolution 181.

Your statement is pointless.[/QUOTE]

You keep saying that resolution 181 was pointless.
I've provided you with links that state that both 'Palestine' and Israel used resolution 181 as their basis for declaring independence, therefore flushing your 'resolution 181 was useless comment' down the toilet.

I already won the argument. You lost. Again.

Was there ever a time that you were right about something? 
You have got to be the most misinformed poster here about the conflict.

BTW, you still have not provided ONE LINK that backs up your claims.


----------



## Vigilante

Israel has best watch it's ALLY America for another 2 and a half years, and PRAY that a Conservative takes over the presidency...so they won't have this scum advising the Manchurian muslim....

_




_


----------



## RoccoR

Phoenall, MJB12741, toastman, _et al,_

My friends, don't get drawn into this protracted idea.  The facts speak for themselves.  For the zillionth time.  They cannot be any clearer.  Our friend PF_Tinmore will believe what he wants to believe.  Get past it.  Don't get caught-up in this virtual victim argument:

As to the Independence of the Palestinian State, recognition by the UN, recognition of A/RES/181(II):



			
				EXCERPT  Palestinian Declaration of Independence said:
			
		

> By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defence of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
> 
> Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international *legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947*, and
> 
> Through the *exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination*, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:
> 
> The Palestine National Council *hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine* in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MULTIPLE EXCERPTS - UN Recognition and Acknowledgement said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Recalling its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, in which, inter alia, it called for the establishment of an Arab State and a Jewish State in Palestine,* ... ... ...
> 
> Recalling its resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974 on the observer status for the Palestine Liberation Organization and subsequent relevant resolutions,
> 
> 1.	*Acknowledges the proclamation* of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;
> 
> 2.	Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to *exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;*
> 
> 3.	Decides that, *effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system,* without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system, in conformity with relevant United Nations resolutions and practice;​
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/RES/43/177  15 December 1988
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ A/43/827  S/20278  18 November 1988
Click to expand...


As to the initial implementation of A/RES/181(II), and the partition of Two-States _(Arab and Jewish)_ by the General Assembly:


One Arab State
One Jewish State



			
				EXCERPT  The Palestine Commission said:
			
		

> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal Israeli actions in Occupied East Jerusalem and the rest of the Occupied Palestinian Territory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recalling relevant General Assembly resolutions, including resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, *which partitioned mandated Palestine into two States, one Arab and one Jewish,*
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ Resolution adopted by the General Assembly  A/RES/ES-10/14  12 December 2003.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ PAL/169 17 May 1948
Click to expand...


Today, the argument rests on the idea that eventually, the Palestinian's of the 21st Century will eventually sue for peace, or evaporate.  At the present time, the Palestinians, in their usual masquerade as the virtual victim, are not yet ready to enter into good faith negotiations.  So, the containment, quarantine, and occupation will continue until such time as the threat is neutralized.  This is a Palestinian decision, and the direction they have chosen in the exercise of the right to self-determination; it is what they want by their very deeds and actions.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.


What happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> Aw, bless you again for proving my point that were no Muslim Palestinians at all in ancient Israel & that they have become invaders on Israel's land which can be proven by looking at population figures since 1948.


That's not what that shows.


----------



## Hossfly

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> What happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.
Click to expand...

What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.


----------



## toastman

Hossfly said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land.  So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land.  It's called Palestinian Mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> What happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.
Click to expand...


Someone should have told the Palestinians that when you play with fire, you get burnt.....


----------



## Picaro

Didn't read the thread, far too long at 132 pagers in my browser settings, but I ran across this Op Ed a little while ago while following another story.

So Much for Arab Nationality; Ditto for "Occupation" - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva

Do the 'Palestinians' have a 'national anthem' yet? If they do, finally, do the lyrics sound as if they were written by Borat?


----------



## Hossfly

Picaro said:


> Didn't read the thread, far too long at 132 pagers in my browser settings, but I ran across this Op Ed a little while ago while following another story.
> 
> So Much for Arab Nationality; Ditto for "Occupation" - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva
> 
> Do the 'Palestinians' have a 'national anthem' yet? If they do, finally, do the lyrics sound as if they were written by Borat?


Does this sound like Borat?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPdGhaNK0IU]Funniest Arab Video - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really

Hossfly said:


> What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.


Palestinian's didn't ask to be occupied.

Israel acts like a neighborhood bully.

And the fate of a bully, is always the same.

They eventually  get the shit kicked out of them.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian's didn't ask to be occupied.
> 
> Israel acts like a neighborhood bully.
> 
> And the fate of a bully, is always the same.
> 
> They eventually  get the shit kicked out of them.
Click to expand...


HAHAHAHA let us know when that happens.

In the mean time:





BTW, Los Angele just won the Stanley Cup...again


----------



## MJB12741

I too am ticked off with those Zionists in Israel bullying the Palestinians into hatred & violence with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions.  Face it you Zionists, not once has Israel even tried to help free the Palestinians back to their native homelands.  





Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian's didn't ask to be occupied.
> 
> Israel acts like a neighborhood bully.
> 
> And the fate of a bully, is always the same.
> 
> They eventually  get the shit kicked out of them.
Click to expand...


----------



## thanatos144

133 pages and not once did anyone disprove the op


----------



## Picaro

thanatos144 said:


> 133 pages and not once did anyone disprove the op



Probably because there is no need to, since some 2,000 years of history made the OP ridiculous in the first place.


----------



## Picaro

MJB12741 said:


> I too am ticked off with those Zionists in Israel bullying the Palestinians into hatred & violence with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions.  Face it you Zionists, not once has Israel even tried to help free the Palestinians back to their native homelands.



Syria and Egypt rejected taking them in after the 1948 war. It's telling that their own countries don't want them either, and neither did the 'two state' solution work for them, since Jordan won't take them. Thinking a three state solution will work is just delusional. They like being 'refugees'; they live far better as 'refugees' than they ever would in Arab states or with their own 'state'.


----------



## thanatos144

Picaro said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 133 pages and not once did anyone disprove the op
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because there is no need to, since some 2,000 years of history made the OP ridiculous in the first place.
Click to expand...


LOL  No it didn't....Why dont you go read the op before you make a bigger fool of yourself.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian's didn't ask to be occupied.
> 
> Israel acts like a neighborhood bully.
> 
> And the fate of a bully, is always the same.
> 
> They eventually  get the shit kicked out of them.
Click to expand...

You can always send your Photoshop battleship after them.


----------



## Picaro

thanatos144 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 133 pages and not once did anyone disprove the op
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because there is no need to, since some 2,000 years of history made the OP ridiculous in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL  No it didn't....Why dont you go read the op before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
Click to expand...


It claims they are an invented people; they aren't invented, they just aren't a 'people' at all, and in fact are immigrants from other Arab countries; the few living in the hills considered themselves part of 'greater Syria' in the last couple of centuries, but they were never a 'people', invented or otherwise. Outside of a few of the hill dwellers, the rest are immigrants, mostly illegal ones at that. They're Syrians for administrative purposes, not 'Palestinians'.


----------



## thanatos144

Picaro said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because there is no need to, since some 2,000 years of history made the OP ridiculous in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL  No it didn't....Why dont you go read the op before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It claims they are an invented people; they aren't invented, they just aren't a 'people' at all, and in fact are immigrants from other Arab countries; the few living in the hills considered themselves part of 'greater Syria' in the last couple of centuries, but they were never a 'people', invented or otherwise. Outside of a few of the hill dwellers, the rest are immigrants, mostly illegal ones at that. They're Syrians.
Click to expand...


They are a invented people and history proves it 

tapatalk post


----------



## Picaro

thanatos144 said:


> They are a invented people and history proves it



Nah. Just because some Egyptians made them up in the 1950's doesn't make it so. It was just an excuse for Egypt and Syria to force them to stay in the West Bank as a tool for their foreign policies..


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Too little - too late.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well then, that explains the All Palestine Government and its declaration of a Palestinian state in *1948.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UN Partition Plan was already in effect.   The APG tried to declare independence over territory already declared independent under Israel; months after the fact (SEPT '48 ).  It was a bumbling Arab attempt to circumvent the Partition Plan that failed after the failed invasion by the Arab League.
> 
> Don't be ridiculous.  Not even the Arab League recognized it as having any legitimacy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Load of crap, Rocco. The Palestinians did not declare independence on any Israeli territory.
> 
> The Arab states, except for Jordan who was promised the West Bank, recognized Palestine.
Click to expand...


>>the Arab League initiated the creation of an organisation representing the Palestinian people. The first Palestinian National Council convened in East Jerusalem on 29 May 1964.<<


----------



## Kondor3

aris2chat said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Too little - too late.
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UN Partition Plan was already in effect.   The APG tried to declare independence over territory already declared independent under Israel; months after the fact (SEPT '48 ).  It was a bumbling Arab attempt to circumvent the Partition Plan that failed after the failed invasion by the Arab League.
> 
> Don't be ridiculous.  Not even the Arab League recognized it as having any legitimacy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Load of crap, Rocco. The Palestinians did not declare independence on any Israeli territory.
> 
> The Arab states, except for Jordan who was promised the West Bank, recognized Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> >>the Arab League initiated the creation of an organisation representing the Palestinian people. The first Palestinian National Council convened in East Jerusalem on 29 May 1964.<<
Click to expand...

Actually, wasn't the first All-Palestine Council formed in September, 1948, right before their first half-assed and failed attempt at declaring Statehood or Independence? Mind you, it was a puppet of the Arab League, designed specifically to offset the new Israeli Knesset, but that was some time prior to 1964... or so I seem to recall, re: the first council. Of course, your mileage may vary.


----------



## aris2chat

We have seen that borders, declared by the mandate or the state mean little.  It is a matter of who controls the land.
Israel could have declared all land taken in '67 as their's.  For the sake of peace land was exchanged.
What land is palestinians willing to exchange for statehood?


----------



## aris2chat

Picaro said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I too am ticked off with those Zionists in Israel bullying the Palestinians into hatred & violence with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions.  Face it you Zionists, not once has Israel even tried to help free the Palestinians back to their native homelands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syria and Egypt rejected taking them in after the 1948 war. It's telling that their own countries don't want them either, and neither did the 'two state' solution work for them, since Jordan won't take them. Thinking a three state solution will work is just delusional. They like being 'refugees'; they live far better as 'refugees' than they ever would in Arab states or with their own 'state'.
Click to expand...


Under egyptian occupation, refugees in the gaza were much better off, had housing, education, eat a better diet and had proper medical care in the camps than those outside them.


----------



## Picaro

'Palestine' is a regional term, and is not a tribal designation; Jews are as much 'Palestinians' as Arabs, Greeks, Druze, Poles, Marronites, hippies, used car salesmen, mimes, and anybody else living in the area. It is not a term for a specific people.


----------



## Picaro

aris2chat said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I too am ticked off with those Zionists in Israel bullying the Palestinians into hatred & violence with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions.  Face it you Zionists, not once has Israel even tried to help free the Palestinians back to their native homelands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syria and Egypt rejected taking them in after the 1948 war. It's telling that their own countries don't want them either, and neither did the 'two state' solution work for them, since Jordan won't take them. Thinking a three state solution will work is just delusional. They like being 'refugees'; they live far better as 'refugees' than they ever would in Arab states or with their own 'state'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under egyptian occupation, refugees in the gaza were much better off, had housing, education, eat a better diet and had proper medical care in the camps than those outside them.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't argue the Egyptians weren't better for them administratively than the Hamas gangsters are. 

They shouldn't have voted for the vermin. Doesn't make Israel responsible for them or their screwed up antisemitism.


----------



## Roudy

The Arabs themselves, including PLO leaders and founders scoffed at the idea of a Palestinian people.  Mainly because at the time it meant that you were Jewish. Most of the Arab leaders thought of the idea of a Palestinian people as a Zionist conspiracy. 

I think both of you are saying the same thing. The Palestinians are made up of Arab immigrants and invaders from neighboring Arab countries.  Therefore they are both invented" and a people.


----------



## amity1844

Roudy said:


> The Arabs themselves, including PLO leaders and founders scoffed at the idea of a Palestinian people.  Mainly because at the time it meant that you were Jewish. Most of the Arab leaders thought of the idea of a Palestinian people as a Zionist conspiracy.
> 
> I think both of you are saying the same thing. The Palestinians are made up of Arab immigrants and invaders from neighboring Arab countries.  Therefore they are both invented" and a people.



I seriously doubt that.  

Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean.  Whoever is inhabiting it at any given point in time is by definition a Palestinian.  

Modern nation-state concepts came about in Europe during the Renaissance, around 16th - 18th centuries.  And since it is a European concept at its foundation, don't expect other peoples to fall right in line.  It wasn't the trip of the Han, the Aztecs, the Navajo, the Palestinians, the Nok, the Khmer, the Sentinelese, or the Sahelis until much later, if ever.   But that doesn't make them any less the indigenous people of their homelands.  

Palestinian national consciousness, that is consciousness of themselves as a nation, goes back to the revolt of 1848.  

Let this book 'splain it you:
*
Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness by Walid Khalidi*


----------



## Picaro

I wasn't intending to argue with aris; after reading my posts it looks like I am. lol My bad.


----------



## amity1844

Picaro said:


> 'Palestine' is a regional term, and is not a tribal designation; Jews are as much 'Palestinians' as Arabs, Greeks, Druze, Poles, Marronites, hippies, used car salesmen, mimes, and anybody else living in the area. It is not a term for a specific people.


I'll certainly agree.  But history has forged a people called the Palestinians.  There have been Palestinian Jews, etc.  Not all are Arabs, there have been people with other homelands, like Armenians or Circassians, living in Palestine, but they are not generally called Palestinians.  They are also hoping to regain their homelands, not stay in Palestine.


----------



## aris2chat

Picaro said:


> I wasn't intending to argue with aris; after reading my posts it looks like I am. lol My bad.



You only confused the Egyptians with the UN.  UN provided for the camps.  Those not in camps were near starvation under the egyptians.  Except for building roads they did very little for gaza or the palestinians.

Jordan tried to annex the WB and give the palestinians jordanian citizenship.  Jordan population is already palestinian majority.  Arafat was offer the position as PM.  Arafat instead lead a coup against Jordan.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> ..._Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean_...


Not any more...


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> HAHAHAHA let us know when that happens.
> 
> In the mean time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Los Angele just won the Stanley Cup...again


LA is where hockey gets real!

We probably even invented the sport?

*Kings rock!*


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> You can always send your Photoshop battleship after them.


Don't dis' my ship, man!

That's 3 min out of my life I'll never get back!


----------



## MJB12741

Oh now I get it.  If I am in France at any given period of time", I am French.  Amazing what we can learn here.






amity1844 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs themselves, including PLO leaders and founders scoffed at the idea of a Palestinian people.  Mainly because at the time it meant that you were Jewish. Most of the Arab leaders thought of the idea of a Palestinian people as a Zionist conspiracy.
> 
> I think both of you are saying the same thing. The Palestinians are made up of Arab immigrants and invaders from neighboring Arab countries.  Therefore they are both invented" and a people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that.
> 
> Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean.  Whoever is inhabiting it at any given point in time is by definition a Palestinian.
> 
> Modern nation-state concepts came about in Europe during the Renaissance, around 16th - 18th centuries.  And since it is a European concept at its foundation, don't expect other peoples to fall right in line.  It wasn't the trip of the Han, the Aztecs, the Navajo, the Palestinians, the Nok, the Khmer, the Sentinelese, or the Sahelis until much later, if ever.   But that doesn't make them any less the indigenous people of their homelands.
> 
> Palestinian national consciousness, that is consciousness of themselves as a nation, goes back to the revolt of 1848.
> 
> Let this book 'splain it you:
> *
> Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness by Walid Khalidi*
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

As a matter of fact, Jews were among the indigenous Palestinians of antiquity.  Were Muslims?  Or are they just squatters on Israel's ancient land?




amity1844 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Palestine' is a regional term, and is not a tribal designation; Jews are as much 'Palestinians' as Arabs, Greeks, Druze, Poles, Marronites, hippies, used car salesmen, mimes, and anybody else living in the area. It is not a term for a specific people.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll certainly agree.  But history has forged a people called the Palestinians.  There have been Palestinian Jews, etc.  Not all are Arabs, there have been people with other homelands, like Armenians or Circassians, living in Palestine, but they are not generally called Palestinians.  They are also hoping to regain their homelands, not stay in Palestine.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

amity1844 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs themselves, including PLO leaders and founders scoffed at the idea of a Palestinian people.  Mainly because at the time it meant that you were Jewish. Most of the Arab leaders thought of the idea of a Palestinian people as a Zionist conspiracy.
> 
> I think both of you are saying the same thing. The Palestinians are made up of Arab immigrants and invaders from neighboring Arab countries.  Therefore they are both invented" and a people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that.
> 
> Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean.  Whoever is inhabiting it at any given point in time is by definition a Palestinian.
> 
> Modern nation-state concepts came about in Europe during the Renaissance, around 16th - 18th centuries.  And since it is a European concept at its foundation, don't expect other peoples to fall right in line.  It wasn't the trip of the Han, the Aztecs, the Navajo, the Palestinians, the Nok, the Khmer, the Sentinelese, or the Sahelis until much later, if ever.   But that doesn't make them any less the indigenous people of their homelands.
> 
> Palestinian national consciousness, that is consciousness of themselves as a nation, goes back to the revolt of 1848.
> 
> Let this book 'splain it you:
> *
> Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness by Walid Khalidi*
Click to expand...


False. Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel proper. You cannot refute that.


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> As a matter of fact, Jews were among the indigenous Palestinians of antiquity.


Yes.



MJB12741 said:


> Were Muslims?


Yes.



MJB12741 said:


> Or are they just squatters on Israel's ancient land?


No.


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> False. Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel proper. You cannot refute that.


Oh, yes you can!


----------



## toastman

MJB12741 said:


> Oh now I get it.  If I am in France at any given period of time", I am French.  Amazing what we can learn here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs themselves, including PLO leaders and founders scoffed at the idea of a Palestinian people.  Mainly because at the time it meant that you were Jewish. Most of the Arab leaders thought of the idea of a Palestinian people as a Zionist conspiracy.
> 
> I think both of you are saying the same thing. The Palestinians are made up of Arab immigrants and invaders from neighboring Arab countries.  Therefore they are both invented" and a people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that.
> 
> Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean.  Whoever is inhabiting it at any given point in time is by definition a Palestinian.
> 
> Modern nation-state concepts came about in Europe during the Renaissance, around 16th - 18th centuries.  And since it is a European concept at its foundation, don't expect other peoples to fall right in line.  It wasn't the trip of the Han, the Aztecs, the Navajo, the Palestinians, the Nok, the Khmer, the Sentinelese, or the Sahelis until much later, if ever.   But that doesn't make them any less the indigenous people of their homelands.
> 
> Palestinian national consciousness, that is consciousness of themselves as a nation, goes back to the revolt of 1848.
> 
> Let this book 'splain it you:
> *
> Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness by Walid Khalidi*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Hahahaha


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs themselves, including PLO leaders and founders scoffed at the idea of a Palestinian people.  Mainly because at the time it meant that you were Jewish. Most of the Arab leaders thought of the idea of a Palestinian people as a Zionist conspiracy.
> 
> I think both of you are saying the same thing. The Palestinians are made up of Arab immigrants and invaders from neighboring Arab countries.  Therefore they are both invented" and a people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that.
> 
> Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean.  Whoever is inhabiting it at any given point in time is by definition a Palestinian.
> 
> Modern nation-state concepts came about in Europe during the Renaissance, around 16th - 18th centuries.  And since it is a European concept at its foundation, don't expect other peoples to fall right in line.  It wasn't the trip of the Han, the Aztecs, the Navajo, the Palestinians, the Nok, the Khmer, the Sentinelese, or the Sahelis until much later, if ever.   But that doesn't make them any less the indigenous people of their homelands.
> 
> Palestinian national consciousness, that is consciousness of themselves as a nation, goes back to the revolt of 1848.
> 
> Let this book 'splain it you:
> *
> Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness by Walid Khalidi*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False. Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel proper. You cannot refute that.
Click to expand...

Oh, they (_Muslim-Arab Palestinians, and their fellow travelers_) will refute it until they (and you) are blue in the face.

Not that it's gonna do 'em one damned bit of good.

Gotta give 'em credit though... they're setting new world records every year, for pointless pissing and moaning.


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh now I get it.  If I am in France at any given period of time", I am French.  Amazing what we can learn here.
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that.
> 
> Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean.  Whoever is inhabiting it at any given point in time is by definition a Palestinian.
> 
> Modern nation-state concepts came about in Europe during the Renaissance, around 16th - 18th centuries.  And since it is a European concept at its foundation, don't expect other peoples to fall right in line.  It wasn't the trip of the Han, the Aztecs, the Navajo, the Palestinians, the Nok, the Khmer, the Sentinelese, or the Sahelis until much later, if ever.   But that doesn't make them any less the indigenous people of their homelands.
> 
> Palestinian national consciousness, that is consciousness of themselves as a nation, goes back to the revolt of 1848.
> 
> Let this book 'splain it you:
> *
> Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness by Walid Khalidi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahahaha
Click to expand...

And just when you thought there was going to be a shortage of toilet paper...


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> False. Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel proper. You cannot refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes you can!
Click to expand...


Ok, so show me a map of Palestine..


----------



## MJB12741

I think I love Amity.  She is SOOOO FUNNY!  Heh Heh!



QUOTE=toastman;9268701]





MJB12741 said:


> Oh now I get it.  If I am in France at any given period of time", I am French.  Amazing what we can learn here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that.
> 
> Look as I said previously, Palestine is the area between the Jordan River/Dead Sea and the Mediterranean.  Whoever is inhabiting it at any given point in time is by definition a Palestinian.
> 
> Modern nation-state concepts came about in Europe during the Renaissance, around 16th - 18th centuries.  And since it is a European concept at its foundation, don't expect other peoples to fall right in line.  It wasn't the trip of the Han, the Aztecs, the Navajo, the Palestinians, the Nok, the Khmer, the Sentinelese, or the Sahelis until much later, if ever.   But that doesn't make them any less the indigenous people of their homelands.
> 
> Palestinian national consciousness, that is consciousness of themselves as a nation, goes back to the revolt of 1848.
> 
> Let this book 'splain it you:
> *
> Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness by Walid Khalidi*
Click to expand...


Hahahaha  [/QUOTE]


----------



## Phoenall

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> False. Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel proper. You cannot refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes you can!
Click to expand...




 Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders


----------



## Kondor3

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> False. Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel proper. You cannot refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes you can!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders
Click to expand...

As I said earlier, he, and his Muslim-Arab buddies, can (and will) refute it until the cows come home...

The difference being that they cannot EFFECTIVELY refute it, in any manner that is in-force and operative within the Real World that the rest of us inhabit...

Hell, even the United Nations cartography department publishes maps showing the borders of Israel...

The ankle-biters who believe otherwise are easily rebutted and contained.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes you can!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said earlier, he, and his Muslim-Arab buddies, can (and will) refute it until the cows come home...
> 
> The difference being that they cannot EFFECTIVELY refute it, in any manner that is in-force and operative within the Real World that the rest of us inhabit...
> 
> *Hell, even the United Nations cartography department publishes maps showing the borders of Israel...*
> 
> The ankle-biters who believe otherwise are easily rebutted and contained.
Click to expand...


They do, but unlike every other country, the UN has a disclaimer on the bottom of Israel's map.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders
> 
> 
> 
> As I said earlier, he, and his Muslim-Arab buddies, can (and will) refute it until the cows come home...
> 
> The difference being that they cannot EFFECTIVELY refute it, in any manner that is in-force and operative within the Real World that the rest of us inhabit...
> 
> *Hell, even the United Nations cartography department publishes maps showing the borders of Israel...*
> 
> The ankle-biters who believe otherwise are easily rebutted and contained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They do, but unlike every other country, the UN has a disclaimer on the bottom of Israel's map*.
> 
> ...
Click to expand...

Incorrect.

Go to the United Nations webiste, Cartography Dept, where the map of Israel comes from...

United Nations Cartographic Section Web Site

Click on any of the Country -level maps available there...

You will find that same or similar disclaimer on ANY of them...

*For example, the UN's Cartography Dept map of the Czech Republic...*

"_The boundaries and names shown and the designations used on this map do not imply official endorsement or acceptance by the United Nations._"

http://www.un.org/depts/Cartographic/map/profile/czech.pdf

...and on and on and on, UN map after UN map.

Like I said... easily rebutted and contained.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said earlier, he, and his Muslim-Arab buddies, can (and will) refute it until the cows come home...
> 
> The difference being that they cannot EFFECTIVELY refute it, in any manner that is in-force and operative within the Real World that the rest of us inhabit...
> 
> *Hell, even the United Nations cartography department publishes maps showing the borders of Israel...*
> 
> The ankle-biters who believe otherwise are easily rebutted and contained.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They do, but unlike every other country, the UN has a disclaimer on the bottom of Israel's map*.
> 
> ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Incorrect.
> 
> Go to the United Nations webiste, Cartography Dept, where the map of Israel comes from...
> 
> United Nations Cartographic Section Web Site
> 
> Click on any of the Country -level maps available there...
> 
> You will find that same or similar disclaimer on ANY of them...
> 
> *For example, the UN's Cartography Dept map of the Czech Republic...*
> 
> "_The boundaries and names shown and the designations used on this map do not imply official endorsement or acceptance by the United Nations._"
> 
> http://www.un.org/depts/Cartographic/map/profile/czech.pdf
> 
> ...and on and on and on, UN map after UN map.
> 
> Like I said... easily rebutted and contained.
Click to expand...


OK, there may be a few other countries in flux, but that does not change the disclaimer on Israel's questionable legitimacy.


----------



## MJB12741

Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan, who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?






Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> False. Palestine is defined as the West Bank and Gaza. The rest is Israel proper. You cannot refute that.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes you can!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders
Click to expand...


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *They do, but unlike every other country, the UN has a disclaimer on the bottom of Israel's map*.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect.
> 
> Go to the United Nations webiste, Cartography Dept, where the map of Israel comes from...
> 
> United Nations Cartographic Section Web Site
> 
> Click on any of the Country -level maps available there...
> 
> You will find that same or similar disclaimer on ANY of them...
> 
> *For example, the UN's Cartography Dept map of the Czech Republic...*
> 
> "_The boundaries and names shown and the designations used on this map do not imply official endorsement or acceptance by the United Nations._"
> 
> http://www.un.org/depts/Cartographic/map/profile/czech.pdf
> 
> ...and on and on and on, UN map after UN map.
> 
> Like I said... easily rebutted and contained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, there may be a few other countries in flux, but that does not change the disclaimer on Israel's questionable legitimacy.
Click to expand...

Jebus on a bloody crutch!!! Will you never give up your senseless prattle and braying?


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do, but unlike every other country, the UN has a disclaimer on the bottom of Israel's map.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect.
> 
> Go to the United Nations webiste, Cartography Dept, where the map of Israel comes from...
> 
> United Nations Cartographic Section Web Site
> 
> Click on any of the Country -level maps available there...
> 
> You will find that same or similar disclaimer on ANY of them...
> 
> For example, the UN's Cartography Dept map of the Czech Republic...
> 
> "_The boundaries and names shown and the designations used on this map do not imply official endorsement or acceptance by the United Nations._"
> 
> http://www.un.org/depts/Cartographic/map/profile/czech.pdf
> 
> ...and on and on and on, UN map after UN map.
> 
> Like I said... easily rebutted and contained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, there may be a few other countries in flux, but that does not change the disclaimer on Israel's questionable legitimacy.
Click to expand...

Translation...

"_OK, ya got me on that one_."

Already understood.


----------



## Picaro

MJB12741 said:


> Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan, who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?



UN NGO's and assorted sociopaths who shovel food, TV sets, money, and support to them for being terrorist gangsters and extortionists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan,* who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes you can!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone.


----------



## Vigilante

*Sick: Fatah Posts Cartoon Mocking Kidnapped Teens as 'Rats'*

 Facebook page of Palestinian Authority Chief Mahmoud Abbas's party posts cartoon portraying abducted Israeli students as rats.












  Disgusting: Cartoon compares kidnapped Israeli boys to rats
 Screenshot/Facebook




  The official Facebook page Palestinian Authority head Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party has posted a cartoon comparing the three kidnapped Israeli students to rats.
*The post* on the "Palestinian National Liberation Movement "Fatah" / Central Page" shows three rats with Stars of David dangling from a fishing rod, accompanied by an Arabic caption in red reading "A Master Stroke"; its implications are unmistakable.



*Cartoon posted on Fatah Facebook page* Screenshot



 The sickening cartoon illustrates the mixed messages sent by the PA; on the one hand, Abbas *promised to help Israel find* the abducted teens - even as a senior PA official *denied his administration would take any responsibility* for the kidnappings.


----------



## Hossfly

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1028/2877/original.jpg


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan,* who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone.
Click to expand...

One day, you say "_The war isn't over ye_t".

Another day, you say "_The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone_."

Pick one.

And stick with it.

Yer makin' everybody dizzy.


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan,* who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One day, you say "_The war isn't over ye_t".
> 
> Another day, you say "_The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone_."
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Yer makin' everybody dizzy.
Click to expand...


Was literally about to post the same thing..........


----------



## MJB12741

Just goes to prove Palestinians will always be Palestinians.






Vigilante said:


> *Sick: Fatah Posts Cartoon Mocking Kidnapped Teens as 'Rats'*
> 
> Facebook page of Palestinian Authority Chief Mahmoud Abbas's party posts cartoon portraying abducted Israeli students as rats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disgusting: Cartoon compares kidnapped Israeli boys to rats
> Screenshot/Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The official Facebook page Palestinian Authority head Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party has posted a cartoon comparing the three kidnapped Israeli students to rats.
> *The post* on the "Palestinian National Liberation Movement "Fatah" / Central Page" shows three rats with Stars of David dangling from a fishing rod, accompanied by an Arabic caption in red reading "A Master Stroke"; its implications are unmistakable.
> 
> 
> 
> *Cartoon posted on Fatah Facebook page* Screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> The sickening cartoon illustrates the mixed messages sent by the PA; on the one hand, Abbas *promised to help Israel find* the abducted teens - even as a senior PA official *denied his administration would take any responsibility* for the kidnappings.


----------



## MJB12741

The Palestinian hatred for Israel has no end.  Their children are indoctrinated into it as part of their Palestinian education.






MJB12741 said:


> Just goes to prove Palestinians will always be Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sick: Fatah Posts Cartoon Mocking Kidnapped Teens as 'Rats'*
> 
> Facebook page of Palestinian Authority Chief Mahmoud Abbas's party posts cartoon portraying abducted Israeli students as rats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disgusting: Cartoon compares kidnapped Israeli boys to rats
> Screenshot/Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The official Facebook page Palestinian Authority head Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party has posted a cartoon comparing the three kidnapped Israeli students to rats.
> *The post* on the "Palestinian National Liberation Movement "Fatah" / Central Page" shows three rats with Stars of David dangling from a fishing rod, accompanied by an Arabic caption in red reading "A Master Stroke"; its implications are unmistakable.
> 
> 
> 
> *Cartoon posted on Fatah Facebook page* Screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> The sickening cartoon illustrates the mixed messages sent by the PA; on the one hand, Abbas *promised to help Israel find* the abducted teens - even as a senior PA official *denied his administration would take any responsibility* for the kidnappings.
Click to expand...


----------



## Picaro

MJB12741 said:


> As a matter of fact, Jews were among the indigenous Palestinians of antiquity.  Were Muslims?  Or are they just squatters on Israel's ancient land?



Under the Ottomans they were Syrians, or Egyptian migrants. They considered themselves Syrians, which is what they still are, the few of those that have roots going back a couple of centuries, and those are largely form the hill country, not the plains; it was easier to dodge the Ottoman tax collectors and military drafts in the hills than elsewhere.


----------



## MJB12741

Truly I cannot understand WHY Israel has allowed the Muslim Palestinians to squat on their land for generations.





Picaro said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, Jews were among the indigenous Palestinians of antiquity.  Were Muslims?  Or are they just squatters on Israel's ancient land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Ottomans they were Syrians, or Egyptian migrants. They considered themselves Syrians, which is what they still are, the few of those that have roots going back a couple of centuries, and those are largely form the hill country, not the plains; it was easier to dodge the Ottoman tax collectors and military drafts in the hills than elsewhere.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Picaro said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, Jews were among the indigenous Palestinians of antiquity.  Were Muslims?  Or are they just squatters on Israel's ancient land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Ottomans they were Syrians, or Egyptian migrants. They considered themselves Syrians, which is what they still are, the few of those that have roots going back a couple of centuries, and those are largely form the hill country, not the plains; it was easier to dodge the Ottoman tax collectors and military drafts in the hills than elsewhere.
Click to expand...


Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.

All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.

How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.

This whole discussion is pointless.


----------



## MJB12741

HUH??? Are you now saying there is no such thing as Palestinians?





P F Tinmore said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, Jews were among the indigenous Palestinians of antiquity.  Were Muslims?  Or are they just squatters on Israel's ancient land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Ottomans they were Syrians, or Egyptian migrants. They considered themselves Syrians, which is what they still are, the few of those that have roots going back a couple of centuries, and those are largely form the hill country, not the plains; it was easier to dodge the Ottoman tax collectors and military drafts in the hills than elsewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.
> 
> All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.
> 
> This whole discussion is pointless.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, Jews were among the indigenous Palestinians of antiquity.  Were Muslims?  Or are they just squatters on Israel's ancient land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Ottomans they were Syrians, or Egyptian migrants. They considered themselves Syrians, which is what they still are, the few of those that have roots going back a couple of centuries, and those are largely form the hill country, not the plains; it was easier to dodge the Ottoman tax collectors and military drafts in the hills than elsewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.
> 
> All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.
> 
> This whole discussion is pointless.
Click to expand...


What law are you talking about? Don't you mean treaty?


What were they before they were Turkish citizens?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Ottomans they were Syrians, or Egyptian migrants. They considered themselves Syrians, which is what they still are, the few of those that have roots going back a couple of centuries, and those are largely form the hill country, not the plains; it was easier to dodge the Ottoman tax collectors and military drafts in the hills than elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.
> 
> All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.
> 
> This whole discussion is pointless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What law are you talking about? Don't you mean treaty?
> 
> 
> What were they before they were Turkish citizens?
Click to expand...


People.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.
> 
> All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.
> 
> This whole discussion is pointless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What law are you talking about? Don't you mean treaty?
> 
> 
> What were they before they were Turkish citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People.
Click to expand...




 So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine, and they MUST BY INTERNATIONAL LAW be given the chance of self determination. The law does not say under the yoke of Islamic oppression or as muslim slaves. 

 Yet you constantly deny the Jews these rights while trying to enforce them for arab muslim illegal immigrants who arrived in Palestine after 1921 when that treaty was signed


----------



## Picaro

Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.[/quote]

Which law was that?



> All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.


Then why did they rely on Syrian fighters in their 'revolt' in 1935, and in 1947? Even their 'local' units were made up largely of Syrian guerrillas, and they largely obeyed Syrian calls to flee the areas when the war broke out. 



> How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.
> 
> This whole discussion is pointless.


Ah, so you acknowledge the European Jewish refugees and Jewish refugees expelled and driven out of Arab countries can indeed be considered indigenous Palestinians. I look forward to your denouncing of Jordan and the other Arab countries for declaring 'Jew free zones' as illegal and violations of this 'law' you're referring to, and recognizing the rights of Jews to settle and live anywhere in the original Mandate.


----------



## Kondor3

"Self determination"?

That is exactly what the Jews of Old Palestine exercised for themselves in 1948...

They took it upon themselves to determine their own future...

By carving off a slice of Old Palestine and declaring a Nation-State of their own...

Had the Palestinians had the brains to do the same thing, the same day, in connection with those areas of Old Palestine NOT claimed-by or NOT controlled-by the Jews, and held their fire, and convinced their Muslim-Arab neighbors not to interfere, the Muslim-Arabs of Rump Palestine have long-since had a viable State of their own, and would not be reduced to the sorry state of affairs in which we see them now...

These same dullard Palestinians had several other opportunities, beyond 1948-1949, to make good on aspirations for a Nation-State of their own, which would have at least given them most of the West Bank and Gaza, but, characteristically, they pissed-away those opportunities as well, until the Israelis reached a state where they saw no further point in attempting to negotiate in-earnest with these idiots.

Idiots who continue to piss and moan over the division of Old Palestine 66 years ago, out of sheer impotency, given that they have repeatedly missed chances to establish a Nation-State of their own, and given that their own behaviors over the decades have eroded their position and prospects to the point where former opportunities to establish a viable Nation-State of their own have now evaporated.

Idiots with nothing left to do but (1) continue the violence with zero prospect of affecting the outcome, and continuing to die, pointlessly, in large numbers, or (2) pack up and move to a better place and start a new life, or (3) continue piss and moan and whine like old women.

"Palestine" is a failed nation-state wannabe, representing a rag-tag and diverse slapped-together collective of old tribal types and much more recently-arrived immigrant worker-bees and indigents, with a modern and artificially-contrived common identity as phony as a three-dollar bill, and a leadership and militant following more obnoxious, barbaric, bloodthirsty, savage and Neanderthal -like in their outward manifestations than we can readily identify and see elsewhere. Nature has de-selected them, through their own idiocy and intransigence.

The sooner this faux polity is smashed and its denizens uprooted and scattered to the four winds of neighboring countries, the better.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan,* who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One day, you say "_The war isn't over ye_t".
> 
> Another day, you say "_The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone_."
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Yer makin' everybody dizzy.
Click to expand...


Palestinian civilians are attacked by Israel's military.

Can you call that a war?


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> One day, you say "_The war isn't over yet_".
> 
> Another day, you say "_The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone_."
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Yer makin' everybody dizzy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian civilians are attacked by Israel's military.
> 
> Can you call that a war?
Click to expand...

This is not a question of the definition of War.

This is a question of your own inconsistency.

One day you say the war isn't over yet.

One day you say that the Palestinians are not at war.

Which is it?

Pick one.

And stick with it.

Be consistent.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Ottomans they were Syrians, or Egyptian migrants. They considered themselves Syrians, which is what they still are, the few of those that have roots going back a couple of centuries, and those are largely form the hill country, not the plains; it was easier to dodge the Ottoman tax collectors and military drafts in the hills than elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.
> 
> All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.
> 
> This whole discussion is pointless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What law are you talking about? Don't you mean treaty?
> 
> 
> What were they before they were Turkish citizens?
Click to expand...


*In international law,* when a state is dissolved and new states are established, the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.5 As a rule, therefore, *citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.*
--------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------
The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

Turkish subjects *habitually resident in the territory of Palestine* upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, *the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine.* While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What law are you talking about? Don't you mean treaty?
> 
> 
> What were they before they were Turkish citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine, and they MUST BY INTERNATIONAL LAW be given the chance of self determination. The law does not say under the yoke of Islamic oppression or as muslim slaves.
> 
> Yet you constantly deny the Jews these rights while trying to enforce them for arab muslim illegal immigrants who arrived in Palestine after 1921 when that treaty was signed
Click to expand...




> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine,



Did they normally reside in Palestine at the time it was detached from turkey?



> All Turkish citizens who *normally resided in the territory that became Palestine *are Palestinian citizens.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> One day, you say "_The war isn't over yet_".
> 
> Another day, you say "_The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone_."
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Yer makin' everybody dizzy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian civilians are attacked by Israel's military.
> 
> Can you call that a war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is not a question of the definition of War.
> 
> This is a question of your own inconsistency.
> 
> One day you say the war isn't over yet.
> 
> One day you say that the Palestinians are not at war.
> 
> Which is it?
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Be consistent.
Click to expand...


A peace treaty cannot be signed with Israel until after the war and occupation ends.

There must be a surrender or armistice before a treaty can be valid. Treaties signed by people under occupation are not considered valid.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian civilians are attacked by Israel's military.
> 
> Can you call that a war?
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a question of the definition of War.
> 
> This is a question of your own inconsistency.
> 
> One day you say the war isn't over yet.
> 
> One day you say that the Palestinians are not at war.
> 
> Which is it?
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Be consistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A peace treaty cannot be signed with Israel until after the war and occupation ends.
> 
> There must be a surrender or armistice before a treaty can be valid. Treaties signed by people under occupation are not considered valid.
Click to expand...

That's not the question.

The question is your inconsistency.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a question of the definition of War.
> 
> This is a question of your own inconsistency.
> 
> One day you say the war isn't over yet.
> 
> One day you say that the Palestinians are not at war.
> 
> Which is it?
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Be consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A peace treaty cannot be signed with Israel until after the war and occupation ends.
> 
> There must be a surrender or armistice before a treaty can be valid. Treaties signed by people under occupation are not considered valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not the question.
> 
> The question is your inconsistency.
Click to expand...


The original question was: "who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?"

Palestine is at war with nobody except the occupation. That is Israel's war. The Palestinians cannot end it.

People under occupation cannot sign a valid peace agreement because it is considered to be coerced. The occupation must end first.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course none of that means anything. The law is simple and clear.
> 
> All Turkish citizens who normally resided in the territory that became Palestine are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> How long they had lived there doesn't matter. Their religion doesn't matter. Where they came from Doesn't matter. What they called themselves doesn't matter.
> 
> This whole discussion is pointless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What law are you talking about? Don't you mean treaty?
> 
> 
> What were they before they were Turkish citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *In international law,* when a state is dissolved and new states are established, the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.5 As a rule, therefore, *citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.*
> --------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects *habitually resident in the territory of Palestine* upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, *the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine.* While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).
Click to expand...


What state was dissolved and what new state was established?


----------



## toastman

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a question of the definition of War.
> 
> This is a question of your own inconsistency.
> 
> One day you say the war isn't over yet.
> 
> One day you say that the Palestinians are not at war.
> 
> Which is it?
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Be consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A peace treaty cannot be signed with Israel until after the war and occupation ends.
> 
> There must be a surrender or armistice before a treaty can be valid. Treaties signed by people under occupation are not considered valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not the question.
> 
> The question is your inconsistency.
Click to expand...


You can't argue with someone like Tinmore who thinks he knows everything but knows nothing. He's living on an alternate planet. 
Even when you prove Tinmore wrong with indisputable evidence, he still claims to be right. He has some sort of God complex


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What law are you talking about? Don't you mean treaty?
> 
> 
> What were they before they were Turkish citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In international law,* when a state is dissolved and new states are established, the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.5 As a rule, therefore, *citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.*
> --------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects *habitually resident in the territory of Palestine* upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, *the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine.* While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What state was dissolved and what new state was established?
Click to expand...


The Ottoman Empire was dissolved. All of the territories broken off were considered successor states.


----------



## MJB12741

I agree with you that Israel must end the occupation.  The problem is where can the Palestinian squatters go when not a single surrounding Arab country will grant them a right of return back to their native homelands?






P F Tinmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian civilians are attacked by Israel's military.
> 
> Can you call that a war?
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a question of the definition of War.
> 
> This is a question of your own inconsistency.
> 
> One day you say the war isn't over yet.
> 
> One day you say that the Palestinians are not at war.
> 
> Which is it?
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> And stick with it.
> 
> Be consistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A peace treaty cannot be signed with Israel until after the war and occupation ends.
> 
> There must be a surrender or armistice before a treaty can be valid. Treaties signed by people under occupation are not considered valid.
Click to expand...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In international law,* when a state is dissolved and new states are established, the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.5 As a rule, therefore, *citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.*
> --------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects *habitually resident in the territory of Palestine* upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, *the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine.* While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What state was dissolved and what new state was established?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Ottoman Empire was dissolved. All of the territories broken off were considered successor states.
Click to expand...


The Ottoman EMPIRE (key word is Empire) was not a state and you didnt answer my question.
What was the successor state??? The treaty of Lausanne does not mention Palestine or Palestinians..
Your logic is extremely flawed..


----------



## aris2chat

Kondor3 said:


> "Self determination"?
> 
> That is exactly what the Jews of Old Palestine exercised for themselves in 1948...
> 
> They took it upon themselves to determine their own future...
> 
> By carving off a slice of Old Palestine and declaring a Nation-State of their own...
> 
> Had the Palestinians had the brains to do the same thing, the same day, in connection with those areas of Old Palestine NOT claimed-by or NOT controlled-by the Jews, and held their fire, and convinced their Muslim-Arab neighbors not to interfere, the Muslim-Arabs of Rump Palestine have long-since had a viable State of their own, and would not be reduced to the sorry state of affairs in which we see them now...
> 
> These same dullard Palestinians had several other opportunities, beyond 1948-1949, to make good on aspirations for a Nation-State of their own, which would have at least given them most of the West Bank and Gaza, but, characteristically, they pissed-away those opportunities as well, until the Israelis reached a state where they saw no further point in attempting to negotiate in-earnest with these idiots.
> 
> Idiots who continue to piss and moan over the division of Old Palestine 66 years ago, out of sheer impotency, given that they have repeatedly missed chances to establish a Nation-State of their own, and given that their own behaviors over the decades have eroded their position and prospects to the point where former opportunities to establish a viable Nation-State of their own have now evaporated.
> 
> Idiots with nothing left to do but (1) continue the violence with zero prospect of affecting the outcome, and continuing to die, pointlessly, in large numbers, or (2) pack up and move to a better place and start a new life, or (3) continue piss and moan and whine like old women.
> 
> "Palestine" is a failed nation-state wannabe, representing a rag-tag and diverse slapped-together collective of old tribal types and much more recently-arrived immigrant worker-bees and indigents, with a modern and artificially-contrived common identity as phony as a three-dollar bill, and a leadership and militant following more obnoxious, barbaric, bloodthirsty, savage and Neanderthal -like in their outward manifestations than we can readily identify and see elsewhere. Nature has de-selected them, through their own idiocy and intransigence.
> 
> The sooner this faux polity is smashed and its denizens uprooted and scattered to the four winds of neighboring countries, the better.



But they want to deny Israel/jews that right.
Arabs denied the palestinians that right.
certainly egypt and jordan didn't give them that right, they jordan did offer them citizenship.
Oslo was supposed to be the first step but that failed.  PA turned into a welfare state and (w)could not reciprocate move for move with Israel.  Arafat and Abbas have both denied the palestinians that right by not making peace with Israel.


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine, and they MUST BY INTERNATIONAL LAW be given the chance of self determination. The law does not say under the yoke of Islamic oppression or as muslim slaves.
> 
> Yet you constantly deny the Jews these rights while trying to enforce them for arab muslim illegal immigrants who arrived in Palestine after 1921 when that treaty was signed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they normally reside in Palestine at the time it was detached from turkey?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Turkish citizens who *normally resided in the territory that became Palestine *are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Palestinian = Plishtim    Verstehen Sie Nichts?


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan,* who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead then refute it with links from reputable sources, you can start with Jordan and Egypt that have treaties with Israel setting out mutually agreed borders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone.
Click to expand...

Tinmore, are you trying to be a comedian?  Either that or you're fookin' crazy. 

Hamas' charter, and the statements of their leaders are filled with declarations of war and desire to destroy Israel.


----------



## aris2chat

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine, and they MUST BY INTERNATIONAL LAW be given the chance of self determination. The law does not say under the yoke of Islamic oppression or as muslim slaves.
> 
> Yet you constantly deny the Jews these rights while trying to enforce them for arab muslim illegal immigrants who arrived in Palestine after 1921 when that treaty was signed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they normally reside in Palestine at the time it was detached from turkey?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Turkish citizens who *normally resided in the territory that became Palestine *are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian = Plishtim    Verstehen Sie Nichts?
Click to expand...


Tinman misses the fact that the arab population more than doubled in a short time due to arabs from around the region seeking jobs.  They did not reside in the palestinian territory even if they did come from other areas that had been Ottoman.

All those people did not reside in palestine territory when it was detached from turkey.
Half the people stayed and did not flee when arabs told them to or when fighting started and they panicked, letting arab states to (conquer) occupy what could have been their state.

A larger number of jews that lived in the middle east were forced to leave with what they could carry.  Most of them found refuge in Israel.  Population trade.

I expect the jewish refugees lost more of monetary value than those palestinians that left Israel.


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In international law,* when a state is dissolved and new states are established, the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.5 As a rule, therefore, *citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.*
> --------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​---------------
> The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> Turkish subjects *habitually resident in the territory of Palestine* upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.​
> To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, *the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine.* While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What state was dissolved and what new state was established?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Ottoman Empire was dissolved. All of the territories broken off were considered successor states.
Click to expand...





 WRONG AGAIN tinman, if that was the case then Turkey would no longer exist. What happened was the allies told the axis that they were to pay reparations in land and money. This meant that many mandates were set up around the world for land won in war from the axis powers. The LoN managed these lands through other nations until such a time as the inhabitants could show that they were able to govern themselves. The first new nation to do so was Jordan followed by Israel and Syria. 
 There was no state of Ottoman to be dissolved, it was the Empire that ceased to exist and the inhabitants of the Empire were ruled by proxy. The arab league refused to allow the Palestinians to declare independence, your outside interference you are so vocal about, until after the cut off date for the declaration. This led to them being persona non gratis until 1988 when they declared within the confines of the UN partition plan, which means they now m=need to negotiate peace and mutually agreed borders as set out in the partition plan and UN resolutions. ( they have signed to say they will abide by the UN's resolutions so now they are up the creek ) 

 Try harder next time and you might just get something right


----------



## Phoenall

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine, and they MUST BY INTERNATIONAL LAW be given the chance of self determination. The law does not say under the yoke of Islamic oppression or as muslim slaves.
> 
> Yet you constantly deny the Jews these rights while trying to enforce them for arab muslim illegal immigrants who arrived in Palestine after 1921 when that treaty was signed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they normally reside in Palestine at the time it was detached from turkey?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Turkish citizens who *normally resided in the territory that became Palestine *are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...






 Care to produce the treaties that say these words then as proof that the people became Palestinians and the nation Palestine. Making Syria, Iraq and Jordan illegal by the way.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the same must apply to the Jews that arrived in Palestine, and they MUST BY INTERNATIONAL LAW be given the chance of self determination. The law does not say under the yoke of Islamic oppression or as muslim slaves.
> 
> Yet you constantly deny the Jews these rights while trying to enforce them for arab muslim illegal immigrants who arrived in Palestine after 1921 when that treaty was signed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they normally reside in Palestine at the time it was detached from turkey?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Turkish citizens who *normally resided in the territory that became Palestine *are Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Care to produce the treaties that say these words then as proof that the people became Palestinians and the nation Palestine. Making Syria, Iraq and Jordan illegal by the way.
Click to expand...


I already did. You need to keep up.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/9278316-post2044.html


----------



## aris2chat

P F Tinmore said:


> The Ottoman Empire was dissolved. All of the territories broken off were considered successor states.



The territories had to be broken up.  That is what the mandate was for.  Not to create mass state but to break it down to smaller states.  Syria was broken into five pieces but four of the states are not provinces within syria as we knew it 3 yrs ago.

If Assad had been more easily pushed to step down the state would not have been divided in half into the ISIS and Shite syria.  The Opposition did not have the tools in the beginning and are now too weak being crushed by both Assad and the ISIS.

Saudi needs to end the influence of wahabism, egypt is presently ending some of the infrequence of the muslim brotherhood.  Getting iran involved will inflame the sects.

Moderates throughout the region need to suppress their fear and speak out against extremest on both sides.  The sects need to change and come more together both each other and with the rest of the world, not keep trying to change the world to fit them.

The various groups need to consult and compromise, a principle that was part of Islam but have been largely lost


----------



## MJB12741

Yes indeed.  As soon as Israel turned the wasteland into a thriving metropolis, here came the hoards of Palestinians to claim --- it's "their land."  Heh Heh!






aris2chat said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they normally reside in Palestine at the time it was detached from turkey?
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian = Plishtim    Verstehen Sie Nichts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinman misses the fact that the arab population more than doubled in a short time due to arabs from around the region seeking jobs.  They did not reside in the palestinian territory even if they did come from other areas that had been Ottoman.
> 
> All those people did not reside in palestine territory when it was detached from turkey.
> Half the people stayed and did not flee when arabs told them to or when fighting started and they panicked, letting arab states to (conquer) occupy what could have been their state.
> 
> A larger number of jews that lived in the middle east were forced to leave with what they could carry.  Most of them found refuge in Israel.  Population trade.
> 
> I expect the jewish refugees lost more of monetary value than those palestinians that left Israel.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

What is wrong with those Zionists?  The Palestinians who themselves elected Hamas to carry out their wishes are a peace loving, life loving people as witnessed in the Hamas charter thanking the Zionists for allowing the Palestinians to remain & providing for them.

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas







Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just cutious.  While Israel has made peace with both Egypt & Jordan,* who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians aren't at war with anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore, are you trying to be a comedian?  Either that or you're fookin' crazy.
> 
> Hamas' charter, and the statements of their leaders are filled with declarations of war and desire to destroy Israel.
Click to expand...


----------



## amity1844

Roudy, come up with a real source for Hamaxs' Charter.  I think the "Jerusalem Fund" is hardly to be trusted.  let's find a Hamas source.


----------



## P F Tinmore

amity1844 said:


> Roudy, come up with a real source for Hamaxs' Charter.  I think the "Jerusalem Fund" is hardly to be trusted.  let's find a Hamas source.



Indeed, the so called Hamas charter was written by one man and was not endorsed by any of the Hamas leadership.

They should change the name to the Israeli charter. They are the only ones who use it.


----------



## MJB12741

Aw bless you Tinmore for being fair & asking for what Hamas leaders themselves really have to say in their own words about peace with Israel.  Enjoy!



Hamas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



P F Tinmore said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, come up with a real source for Hamaxs' Charter.  I think the "Jerusalem Fund" is hardly to be trusted.  let's find a Hamas source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the so called Hamas charter was written by one man and was not endorsed by any of the Hamas leadership.
> 
> They should change the name to the Israeli charter. They are the only ones who use it.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> Aw bless you Tinmore for being fair & asking for what Hamas leaders themselves really have to say in their own words about peace with Israel.  Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, come up with a real source for Hamaxs' Charter.  I think the "Jerusalem Fund" is hardly to be trusted.  let's find a Hamas source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the so called Hamas charter was written by one man and was not endorsed by any of the Hamas leadership.
> 
> They should change the name to the Israeli charter. They are the only ones who use it.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


From your link:



> British diplomat and former British ambassador to the United Nations Sir Jeremy Greenstock stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006".[85]


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Ok, so show me a map of Palestine..


No need to.

Palestine is the occupied territories.

That is Gaza, the West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> As I said earlier, he, and his Muslim-Arab buddies, can (and will) refute it until the cows come home...
> 
> The difference being that they cannot EFFECTIVELY refute it, in any manner that is in-force and operative within the Real World that the rest of us inhabit...


WTF are you talking about?  There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.  My argument is the position of the free world.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me a map of Palestine..
> 
> 
> 
> No need to.
> 
> Palestine is the occupied territories.
> 
> That is Gaza, the West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem.
Click to expand...


Golan Heights is Palestine??? 

As for East Jerusalem, it's never going to be part of an independent Palestinian Country. 
Even if the international community considers it 'occupied', Israel will NEVER give up sovereignty of it.

Capish?


----------



## MJB12741

We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.

Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?

Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?

Who killed Bobby Kennedy?

Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?

Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?

And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?


----------



## MJB12741

Hmmm.  Still no reply.  How interesting.  Gosh I wonder where all the Palestinian supporters have so suddenly disappeared to?



MJB12741 said:


> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?
> 
> Who killed Bobby Kennedy?
> 
> Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?
> 
> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?


----------



## Billo_Really

MJB12741 said:


> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?


Who are the people who illegally migrated into an area and unilaterally declared themselves a nation when they were only 10% of the population?




MJB12741 said:


> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?


Who are the people that stooped so low as to massacre and entire village at Deir Yassin?




MJB12741 said:


> Who killed Bobby Kennedy?


Who killed Yitzhak Rabin?




MJB12741 said:


> Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?


Who attacked the Mavi Marmara and executed a 19 year old American passenger?




MJB12741 said:


> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?


Who are the people that think it's okay to level entire neighborhoods and commit genocide on a population, because they are the "chosen" ones?




MJB12741 said:


> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?


And who are the people who preach hatred of anyone that isn't a member of their tribe?


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the people who illegally migrated into an area and unilaterally declared themselves a nation when they were only 10% of the population?
Click to expand...

Fun, ain't it? Too bad you didn't have the balls to stop them when they were only 10%. Too late now.



> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the people that stooped so low as to massacre and entire village at Deir Yassin?
Click to expand...

Eighteen percent (107 of 600) of the population was killed in the fighting, not 100%.



> Who killed Yitzhak Rabin?


A metaphorical opposite-twin of the people who killed Anwar Sadat, no doubt.



> Who attacked the Mavi Marmara and executed a 19 year old American passenger?


Passenger my ass. Try to run a naval blockade, get caught and halted, then try to resist the boarding party, and you're gonna get your head handed to you. Dumbass activists. Nature de-selected them.



> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the people that think it's okay to level entire neighborhoods and commit genocide on a population, because they are the "chosen" ones?
Click to expand...

Don't want civilian casualties?

Stop hiding behind the skirts of your women and children (placing your launchers, militia and leadership quarters, etc., within heavily populated civilian residential areas and schools and hospitals and mosques) like the pussies you are, and stop launching rockets from those areas, and civilian casualties will drop to damned-near non-existent. Your choice.



> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?
> 
> 
> 
> And who are the people who preach hatred of anyone that isn't a member of their tribe?
Click to expand...

Ummmmm... Muslims?


----------



## MJB12741

Surely the Palestinians aren't just a disgrace to all of civilized humanity.  Let us consider all of the Palestinian contributions to mankind & civilization Vs. that of Israel.  Fair enough?






Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the people who illegally migrated into an area and unilaterally declared themselves a nation when they were only 10% of the population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fun, ain't it? Too bad you didn't have the balls to stop them when they were only 10%. Too late now.
> 
> 
> Eighteen percent (107 of 600) of the population was killed in the fighting, not 100%.
> 
> 
> A metaphorical opposite-twin of the people who killed Anwar Sadat, no doubt.
> 
> 
> Passenger my ass. Try to run a naval blockade, get caught and halted, then try to resist the boarding party, and you're gonna get your head handed to you. Dumbass activists. Nature de-selected them.
> 
> 
> Don't want civilian casualties?
> 
> Stop hiding behind the skirts of your women and children (placing your launchers, militia and leadership quarters, etc., within heavily populated civilian residential areas and schools and hospitals and mosques) like the pussies you are, and stop launching rockets from those areas, and civilian casualties will drop to damned-near non-existent. Your choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who are the people who preach hatred of anyone that isn't a member of their tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummmmm... Muslims?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

MJB12741 said:


> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?
> 
> Who killed Bobby Kennedy?
> 
> Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?
> 
> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?





> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?



International law agrees.

The treaty of Lausanna agrees.

The Palestine citizenship order agrees.

Israeli propagandists don't agree.


----------



## MJB12741

Perhaps you should educate those Zionists by enlightening them to the truth of all the Palestinian contributions to peace, mankind & civilization so they  will learn --- Who Are The Palestinians?






P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?
> 
> Who killed Bobby Kennedy?
> 
> Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?
> 
> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> International law agrees.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanna agrees.
> 
> The Palestine citizenship order agrees.
> 
> Israeli propagandists don't agree.
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore;  _et al,_

Wooo, back-up a minute.



P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?
> 
> Who killed Bobby Kennedy?
> 
> Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?
> 
> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> International law agrees.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanna agrees.
> 
> The Palestine citizenship order agrees.
> 
> Israeli propagandists don't agree.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*


International Law?
"Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;"  A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988


The Treaty of Lausanne?
Does not address Palestine at all.  Palestine is included in Article 3, From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey --- pursuant to Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921, which refers you to the border with Turkey; again, not mentioning "Palestine" in any fashion.  The Franco-Turkish Agreement, alters the boundary specified in the Paart III of the Treaty of Sevres which does mention "Palestine" in Section VII:
by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers.




In Article 21 of the Palestinian Citizenship Order of 24 July 1925; the Order read:
For the purpose of this Order: (1) The expression &#8216;Palestine&#8217; includes the territories to which the mandate for Palestine applies, except such parts of the territory comprised in Palestine to the East of the Jordan and the Dead Sea as were defined by Order of the High Commissioner dated 1st September 1922.
Other than the potential that Arabs living in the portion of the former Mandate of Palestine that subsequently became Israel in May 1948, become de facto Israeli Citizens, I don't see the application.  How are you applying the Order?


So, let's go back and make your point.  What is the "bottom line" and how does it make a difference, give the current recognition of the State of Palestine (alla 1988)?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MJB12741

Hmmm!  No reply.  Gosh I wonder why that is?  Heh Heh!






RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore;  _et al,_
> 
> Wooo, back-up a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?
> 
> Who killed Bobby Kennedy?
> 
> Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?
> 
> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> International law agrees.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanna agrees.
> 
> The Palestine citizenship order agrees.
> 
> Israeli propagandists don't agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> International Law?
> "Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;"  A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988
> 
> 
> The Treaty of Lausanne?
> Does not address Palestine at all.  Palestine is included in Article 3, From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey --- pursuant to Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921, which refers you to the border with Turkey; again, not mentioning "Palestine" in any fashion.  The Franco-Turkish Agreement, alters the boundary specified in the Paart III of the Treaty of Sevres which does mention "Palestine" in Section VII:
> by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Article 21 of the Palestinian Citizenship Order of 24 July 1925; the Order read:
> For the purpose of this Order: (1) The expression Palestine includes the territories to which the mandate for Palestine applies, except such parts of the territory comprised in Palestine to the East of the Jordan and the Dead Sea as were defined by Order of the High Commissioner dated 1st September 1922.
> Other than the potential that Arabs living in the portion of the former Mandate of Palestine that subsequently became Israel in May 1948, become de facto Israeli Citizens, I don't see the application.  How are you applying the Order?
> 
> 
> So, let's go back and make your point.  What is the "bottom line" and how does it make a difference, give the current recognition of the State of Palestine (alla 1988)?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore;  _et al,_
> 
> Wooo, back-up a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?  Perhaps a few other questions will help us all focus in on that one.
> 
> Who are the people who built the Al Asqa Mosque over the holy site of Solomon's Temple & then claim Israel is stealing "their land"?
> 
> Who are the people who stooped so low in all of world history as to massacre an entire World Olympics athlete team in Munich?
> 
> Who killed Bobby Kennedy?
> 
> Who hijacked the Aciille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheelchair?
> 
> Who are the people who have a history of blowing themselves up along with their own children while killing others with them to honor God?
> 
> And who are the people who educate their own children with the likes of Farfour?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We still have no agreement as to defining Who Are The Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> International law agrees.
> 
> The treaty of Lausanna agrees.
> 
> The Palestine citizenship order agrees.
> 
> Israeli propagandists don't agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> International Law?
> "Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;"  A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988
Click to expand...

What relevance does this have to who are the Palestinians? Why did you post this?



> The Treaty of Lausanne?
> Does not address Palestine at all.  Palestine is included in Article 3, From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey --- pursuant to Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921, which refers you to the border with Turkey; again, not mentioning "Palestine" in any fashion.  The Franco-Turkish Agreement, alters the boundary specified in the Paart III of the Treaty of Sevres which does mention "Palestine" in Section VII:


The Franco-Turkish Agreement dealt with the new borders of turkey. Palestine does not border with Turkey so it was not mentioned. Why did you post this?

The Treaty of Sevres was not ratified. Why did you post this?



> by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers.


Palestine's final international border was defined with Transjordan in 1922. Why did you post this?



> In Article 21 of the Palestinian Citizenship Order of 24 July 1925; the Order read:
> For the purpose of this Order: (1) The expression Palestine includes the territories to which the mandate for Palestine applies, except such parts of the territory comprised in Palestine to the East of the Jordan and the Dead Sea as were defined by Order of the High Commissioner dated 1st September 1922.
> Other than the potential that Arabs living in the portion of the former Mandate of Palestine that subsequently became Israel in May 1948, become de facto Israeli Citizens, I don't see the application.  How are you applying the Order?
> 
> 
> So, let's go back and make your point.  What is the "bottom line" and how does it make a difference, give the current recognition of the State of Palestine (alla 1988)?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


This last part can be confusing and can get overly complicated. Perhaps a new post or new thread.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Fun, ain't it? Too bad you didn't have the balls to stop them when they were only 10%. Too late now.


I wasn't born then.



Kondor3 said:


> Eighteen percent (107 of 600) of the population was killed in the fighting, not 100%.


It wasn't a fight, it was a massacre.



Kondor3 said:


> A metaphorical opposite-twin of the people who killed Anwar Sadat, no doubt.


Israeli settlers (insurgents) killed Rabin.



Kondor3 said:


> Passenger my ass. Try to run a naval blockade, get caught and halted, then try to resist the boarding party, and you're gonna get your head handed to you. Dumbass activists. Nature de-selected them.


Well lookie here, an American who thinks it's okay for an ME country to kill American citizens.



Kondor3 said:


> Don't want civilian casualties?
> 
> Stop hiding behind the skirts of your women and children (placing your launchers, militia and leadership quarters, etc., within heavily populated civilian residential areas and schools and hospitals and mosques) like the pussies you are, and stop launching rockets from those areas, and civilian casualties will drop to damned-near non-existent. Your choice.


They did that in 2008 and they still had "civilian casualties".



Kondor3 said:


> Ummmmm... Muslims?


Wrong.  Try again, maybe your luck will change.


----------



## Kondor3

Billo_Really said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fun, ain't it? Too bad you didn't have the balls to stop them when they were only 10%. Too late now.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't born then.
Click to expand...

Your side (the Palestinians); not you personally, then again, given your obvious limitations, I should have made an explicit declaration at the start. My apologies.



> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eighteen percent (107 of 600) of the population was killed in the fighting, not 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't a fight, it was a massacre.
Click to expand...

No. It was a six-hour -long firefight, with a lot of house-to-house fighting, grenades, etc.; as a matter of fact, the Arabs repulsed the first wave or two of attackers for some hours.



> Israeli settlers (insurgents) killed Rabin.


Sounds like the insurgents who killed Sadat.



> Well lookie here, an American who thinks it's okay for an ME country to kill American citizens.


Nope.

If you're stupid enough to join a foreign contingent, hell-bent upon the lethal challenge of running an established naval blockade, and then you join the others on-board in forcibly resisting the blockade's ship-boarding party, then you're gonna find your head shoved fairly far up your tailpipe, regardless of what nationality you are.

It is embarrassing that a handful of Americans are sufficiently stupid so as to attempt this.

Duh.



> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> don't want civilian casualties? Stop hiding behind the skirts of your women and children (placing your launchers, militia and leadership quarters, etc., within heavily populated civilian residential areas and schools and hospitals and mosques) like the pussies you are, and stop launching rockets from those areas, and civilian casualties will drop to damned-near non-existent. Your choice.
> 
> 
> 
> They did that in 2008 and they still had "civilian casualties".
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter.

Will the Palestinians suffer fewer casualties by parking war-assets within their civilian population centers or away?

That's the real test.



> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmmm... Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  Try again, maybe your luck will change.
Click to expand...

No.

I had it right the first time.


----------



## MJB12741

LMAO!  What a relief having Billo here to entertain us & take our minds off the real world of Palestinian terrorists & Middle East Muslims killing us infidels all over the world.






Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fun, ain't it? Too bad you didn't have the balls to stop them when they were only 10%. Too late now.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't born then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your side (the Palestinians); not you personally, then again, given your obvious limitations, I should have made an explicit declaration at the start. My apologies.
> 
> 
> No. It was a six-hour -long firefight, with a lot of house-to-house fighting, grenades, etc.; as a matter of fact, the Arabs repulsed the first wave or two of attackers for some hours.
> 
> 
> Sounds like the insurgents who killed Sadat.
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> If you're stupid enough to join a foreign contingent, hell-bent upon the lethal challenge of running an established naval blockade, and then you join the others on-board in forcibly resisting the blockade's ship-boarding party, then you're gonna find your head shoved fairly far up your tailpipe, regardless of what nationality you are.
> 
> It is embarrassing that a handful of Americans are sufficiently stupid so as to attempt this.
> 
> Duh.
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.
> 
> Will the Palestinians suffer fewer casualties by parking war-assets within their civilian population centers or away?
> 
> That's the real test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmmm... Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong.  Try again, maybe your luck will change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.
> 
> I had it right the first time.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Instead of electing Hamas, had the Palestinians elected a leader for their people like MLK was for his people, they would have gained near united world support for their issues against Israel.  But thank God, history has once again proven that Palestinians are & always will be Palestinians.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## amity1844

*That dude is PARANOID!!!!!!!!!.*


----------



## Sally

amity1844 said:


> *That dude is PARANOID!!!!!!!!!.*



Really???  He earned the right to relax in his retirement and to be entertained by some of the posters..  Why in the world is a young woman spending all those good youthful years sitting in front of a computer.  You should be out doing things with your contemporaries.  Nothing going on where you live?


----------



## MJB12741

How can we get Amity to post more often?  What a relief to have something to laugh at during these troubled times of those she supports killing us infidels all over the world.






Sally said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *That dude is PARANOID!!!!!!!!!.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really???  He earned the right to relax in his retirement and to be entertained by some of the posters..  Why in the world is a young woman spending all those good youthful years sitting in front of a computer.  You should be out doing things with your contemporaries.  Nothing going on where you live?
Click to expand...


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Your side (the Palestinians); not you personally, then again, given your obvious limitations, I should have made an explicit declaration at the start. My apologies.


I've already stated my position on this, which your 4th grade mentality chooses to ignore.



Kondor3 said:


> No. It was a six-hour -long firefight, with a lot of house-to-house fighting, grenades, etc.; as a matter of fact, the Arabs repulsed the first wave or two of attackers for some hours.


What are Jewish terrorist groups attacking peaceful Palestinian neighborhoods in the first place?



Kondor3 said:


> Sounds like the insurgents who killed Sadat.


See what I mean about 4th grade mentality?



Kondor3 said:


> Nope.
> 
> If you're stupid enough to join a foreign contingent, hell-bent upon the lethal challenge of running an established naval blockade, and then you join the others on-board in forcibly resisting the blockade's ship-boarding party, then you're gonna find your head shoved fairly far up your tailpipe, regardless of what nationality you are.
> 
> It is embarrassing that a handful of Americans are sufficiently stupid so as to attempt this.
> 
> Duh.


No.  You're an American who thinks its okay to kill Americans.  You believe in killing American's so much, that you're willing to lie about the circumstances regarding their deaths.  You call a vessel carrying humanitarian aid, _"a foreign contingent, hell-bent upon the lethal challenge of running an established naval blockade"_, completely ignoring the fact that you can only have a "blockade" against a sovereign nation.  Since the Israeli's do not recognize the sovereignty of Palestinian's, you cannot legally establish a blockade against them.

You're an un-American piece of shit, who thinks its okay to murder American citizens in cold blood.



Kondor3 said:


> Doesn't matter.
> 
> Will the Palestinians suffer fewer casualties by parking war-assets within their civilian population centers or away?
> 
> That's the real test.


They didn't "park" anything. 

Israel deliberately attacks Palestinian neighborhoods, just like they did at Deir Yassin.



Kondor3 said:


> No.
> 
> I had it right the first time.


No, you had it wrong.


----------



## toastman

Billo calling Kondor a 4th grader.   

This board is so fuckin funny sometimes!!


----------



## Billo_Really

toastman said:


> Billo calling Kondor a 4th grader.
> 
> This board is so fuckin funny sometimes!!


We're gonna kick your ass in World Cup!


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> Billo calling Kondor a 4th grader.
> 
> This board is so fuckin funny sometimes!!


Yeah, I know.

The child really *IS* a hoot sometimes, ain't it?

And to think, once upon a time, months ago, that I mistook it for a serious player.

Oh well, live and learn.


----------



## toastman

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billo calling Kondor a 4th grader.
> 
> This board is so fuckin funny sometimes!!
> 
> 
> 
> We're gonna kick your ass in World Cup!
Click to expand...


Probably


----------



## MJB12741

May they never leave us.    





toastman said:


> Billo calling Kondor a 4th grader.
> 
> This board is so fuckin funny sometimes!!


----------



## MJB12741

So where were we on Who Are The Palestinians?  We all know that during antiquity there were no Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians.  So is it true they are just squatters on Israel's land for generations?


----------



## amity1844

They are the descendants of ancient Jews:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...tic-studies-on-palestinians-and-israelis.html


----------



## MJB12741

OMG!  Is that right?  Thank goodness the Palestinians never claimed they were the decendents of the lost tribes off Israel.  Israel would have been doomed.  Praise be to Allah for Palestinian Mentality.




amity1844 said:


> They are the descendants of ancient Jews:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...tic-studies-on-palestinians-and-israelis.html


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> They are the descendants of ancient Jews:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...tic-studies-on-palestinians-and-israelis.html



...and Canaanites...

...and Sumerians...

...and Babylonians...

...and Samarians...

...and Bedouins...

...and Assyrians...

...and Parthians...

...and Scythians...

...and Medes...

...and Hittites...

...and Philistines...

...and Minoans...

...and Bactrians...

...and Egyptians...

...and Ethiopians...

...and Moors...

...and Greeks...

...and Romans...

...and Byzantines...

...and Persians...

...and Mongols...

...and English...

...and French...

...and German...

...and Flemish...

...and on and one and on.

Mutts.

More mutt-like than many other peoples, because some itty-bitty, tiny sliver of their genetic ancestry is comprised of those who have been on the land for many centuries...

Living in the middle of a 4-lane highway connecting Africa and Asia...


----------



## amity1844

No, 85% identical to ancient Jews (who were also mutts, of course). 

Modern Jews are 72% related to ancient Jews.  

By the way, for anyone who read Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe decades ago, it turns out there is very little Khazar in the Jewish people as a whole.  I always thought there might be something to that.  

and of course this genetic study was undertaken by Israeli Jews, and the conclusions were reached by Israeli Jews, not Muslims.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> No, 85% identical to ancient Jews (who were also mutts, of course).
> 
> Modern Jews are 72% related to ancient Jews.
> 
> By the way, for anyone who read Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe decades ago, it turns out there is very little Khazar in the Jewish people as a whole.  I always thought there might be something to that.
> 
> and of course this genetic study was undertaken by Israeli Jews, and the conclusions were reached by Israeli Jews, not Muslims.


Depends on the sampling base and the testing procedure, and the testers themselves.

And, if by 'No', you means to say that modern-day Palestinians do NOT have those genetic markers in their bloodlines, then, I suggest you expand your sampling base.


----------



## amity1844

Ancient Jews have that ancestry, too.  They were a mix of Kurds and Canaanites, Philistines, etc.  So are Palestinians.  

the researchers are looking for haplotypes and haplogroups.  there isn't, fox example, "a Jewish gene."  

and they aren't descended from the lost tribes, they are descended from the Jewish population that remained on the land after the Roman expulsion.  Watch the videos, one Israeli historian describes how the Romans enslaved the elite, the leadership, but left the ordinary people behind.  That is who the Palestinians are descended from (85% ...), and yes everyone who wandered through that four lane highway that is Palestine/Israel!  I thought that was well put.  And again, so are the Jews!

by the way, there are Palestinian COHANIM, in roughly the same proportion as among Jews.


----------



## MJB12741

Oh Amity, I think I love you.  But my guts sure hurt from laughing.  "Palestinian COHANIM"  It sure can't possibly get any better than this.  Keep up the good work.  Heh Heh!





amity1844 said:


> Ancient Jews have that ancestry, too.  They were a mix of Kurds and Canaanites, Philistines, etc.  So are Palestinians.
> 
> the researchers are looking for haplotypes and haplogroups.  there isn't, fox example, "a Jewish gene."
> 
> and they aren't descended from the lost tribes, they are descended from the Jewish population that remained on the land after the Roman expulsion.  Watch the videos, one Israeli historian describes how the Romans enslaved the elite, the leadership, but left the ordinary people behind.  That is who the Palestinians are descended from (85% ...), and yes everyone who wandered through that four lane highway that is Palestine/Israel!  I thought that was well put.  And again, so are the Jews!
> 
> by the way, there are Palestinian COHANIM, in roughly the same proportion as among Jews.


----------



## Billo_Really

Kondor3 said:


> Yeah, I know.
> 
> The child really *IS* a hoot sometimes, ain't it?
> 
> And to think, once upon a time, months ago, that I mistook it for a serious player.
> 
> Oh well, live and learn.


That's okay, at one time, I thought you were an American.


----------



## Kondor3

amity1844 said:


> ..._everyone who wandered through that *four lane highway* that is Palestine/Israel! I thought that was well put_...


It is a paraphrase (_slightly modernized adaptation_) of a line penned by H.G. Wells in his work "_An Outline of History_", used to describe the region.

I can't claim authorship or originality on that one.


----------



## MJB12741

"Palestinian COHANIMS" must feel very good about this.  Long live the BDS Movement.

American Friends of Ateret Cohanim: Read JRP Contents





MJB12741 said:


> Oh Amity, I think I love you.  But my guts sure hurt from laughing.  "Palestinian COHANIM"  It sure can't possibly get any better than this.  Keep up the good work.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient Jews have that ancestry, too.  They were a mix of Kurds and Canaanites, Philistines, etc.  So are Palestinians.
> 
> the researchers are looking for haplotypes and haplogroups.  there isn't, fox example, "a Jewish gene."
> 
> and they aren't descended from the lost tribes, they are descended from the Jewish population that remained on the land after the Roman expulsion.  Watch the videos, one Israeli historian describes how the Romans enslaved the elite, the leadership, but left the ordinary people behind.  That is who the Palestinians are descended from (85% ...), and yes everyone who wandered through that four lane highway that is Palestine/Israel!  I thought that was well put.  And again, so are the Jews!
> 
> by the way, there are Palestinian COHANIM, in roughly the same proportion as among Jews.
Click to expand...


----------



## Indeependent

I'm having so much fun and laughing up a storm but the Ambien is kicking in.


----------



## MJB12741

i know, I know.  Oh Gawd what fun we have on this board.  I'm still waiting for Amity to provide us some documentation on all those PALESTINIAN COHANIN who exist.  Heh Heh!





Indeependent said:


> I'm having so much fun and laughing up a storm but the Ambien is kicking in.


----------



## MJB12741

Hmmm, still nothing on all of the "PALESTINIAN COHANIN" Amity advised us of.  Oh well, maybe tomorrow Amity will be so kind as to educate us.





MJB12741 said:


> i know, I know.  Oh Gawd what fun we have on this board.  I'm still waiting for Amity to provide us some documentation on all those PALESTINIAN COHANIN who exist.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having so much fun and laughing up a storm but the Ambien is kicking in.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Is there ANYONe who disagrees that Amity did it again.  Tries to impress us with her wealth of Middle East knowledge & where is she now after her latest claim about all the PALESTINIAN COHANIN?  Heh Heh.






MJB12741 said:


> Hmmm, still nothing on all of the "PALESTINIAN COHANIN" Amity advised us of.  Oh well, maybe tomorrow Amity will be so kind as to educate us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i know, I know.  Oh Gawd what fun we have on this board.  I'm still waiting for Amity to provide us some documentation on all those PALESTINIAN COHANIN who exist.  Heh Heh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having so much fun and laughing up a storm but the Ambien is kicking in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## amity1844

COHANIM.  There is a specific mutation that is present in Cohanim, believe it or not, and they really do think it likely comes from Aaron!  I don't know how they make that determination.  But at any rate, as that film addresses, there are just as many Palestinians as Jews who carry that mutation.


----------



## MJB12741

Oh well, here you have it folks.  A "film" says there are as many Palestinians as Jews who are COHANINS.  Ya gotta love Amity for all the laughs she gives us.  Heh Heh!

Which brings us back to the original question of Who Are The Palestinians?






amity1844 said:


> COHANIM.  There is a specific mutation that is present in Cohanim, believe it or not, and they really do think it likely comes from Aaron!  I don't know how they make that determination.  But at any rate, as that film addresses, there are just as many Palestinians as Jews who carry that mutation.


----------



## RoccoR

et al,

I'm a bit lost here.  I'm still trying to figure out what impact of relevance this "cohamin" issue has to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.

How is this important to the institution and establishment of peace?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sally

RoccoR said:


> et al,
> 
> I'm a bit lost here.  I'm still trying to figure out what impact of relevance this "cohamin" issue has to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
> 
> How is this important to the institution and establishment of peace?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



The only relevance it has here is that some posters are trying to prove that the "Palestinians" are really the descendents of Jews so that all the so-called refugees should be allowed to claim citizenship in Israel, with the bottom line of them governing Israel in the future because of their huge numbers.  When you get down to it, maybe they should clamor for citizenship in the countries where their ancestors mainly came from -- Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc.


----------



## MJB12741

Well said Sally.  If one is going to make ridiculous claims, at least be able to back them up with ridiculous support.  But Amity is Amity.  Heh Heh!





Sally said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> et al,
> 
> I'm a bit lost here.  I'm still trying to figure out what impact of relevance this "cohamin" issue has to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
> 
> How is this important to the institution and establishment of peace?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only relevance it has here is that some posters are trying to prove that the "Palestinians" are really the descendents of Jews so that all the so-called refugees should be allowed to claim citizenship in Israel, with the bottom line of them governing Israel in the future because of their huge numbers.  When you get down to it, maybe they should clamor for citizenship in the countries where their ancestors mainly came from -- Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

Maybe Amity will be so kind as to tell us how Israel is stealing "Palestinian land'?


----------



## 50_RiaL

1968 - A Palestinian, Sirhan Sirhan, kills Robert Kennedy, America's brightest hope for the future!

1973 - Palestinians kill U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel and American diplomat George Curtis Moore in Sudan!

1997 - A Palestinian, Abu Kamal, opened fire on the 86th floor observation deck of the Empire State Building in New York City.  He kills one and wounds six innocent victims!

2000 - On the eve of Yom Kippur, a group of Palestinian men attacked a New York City synagogue with Molotov cocktail!. Mazin Assi, one of the attackers, was convicted of attempted arson, weapons charges and hate crimes, and sentenced to 15 years in prison. 

2001 - On 9/11, America's darkest day, Palestinians rejoice and dish out candies upon learning of American deaths! 

2003 - Palestinians name a square in Jenin after the Iraqi suicide bomber, Ali Ja'far al Na'mani, who killed four American soldiers in Southern Iraq.

"We want to honor the brave Iraqi officer who carried out the first suicide attack against the American and British occupiers," a senior Palestinian official in Jenin told The Jerusalem Post. "We hope there will be more suicide operations in the coming days."

Who are the "Palestinians?"  Anti-American POSs!


----------



## irosie91

amity1844 said:


> COHANIM.  There is a specific mutation that is present in Cohanim, believe it or not, and they really do think it likely comes from Aaron!  I don't know how they make that determination.  But at any rate, as that film addresses, there are just as many Palestinians as Jews who carry that mutation.




  Aenmity     every profession has a lingo-----and those who misuse the lingo are 
  quickly identified as frauds        Long long ago----when I was young----I spent 
  a summer assigned to a public health facility-----in a rough city in my state----
  I was in my early 20s and ----by appearance looked 14   ------there were two major 
  health problems   -----tuberculosis and CLAP.     Clap is controlled by asking afflicted 
  males to name their female contacts.    The reason is CLAP is symptomatic in man---
  but silent in women-----it lives and creates trouble ----usually sterility in women---and 
  sometimes just cooks on quietly for years------men get symptoms that bring them 
  to the docs------greenish itchy discharge----drives the nuts..    Often at that time 
  the named contacts were  "ladies of the night"       When it came to the LINGO --
  of the ladies of the nite------it was clear to them immediately-----that I was clueless. 
  Simple could not keep up.     Similarly----when it comes to genetics----you are,  clearly, 
  CLUELESS       ------did your source really refer to the cohen haplotype Y chromosome as 
  a  "MUTATION" ???        the significance of the presence of the  cohen y chromosome 
  haplotype is actually not so much as the fact that it exists------as the fact that jews 
  who have it-------have known they have it for the past several thousand years-----
  the fact that they KNOW they are cohens            I understand that this concept is 
  far beyond your grasp but  it is very very very significant in the issue of population 
  genetics and the peoplehood of jews.       Your sense that the EXISTENCE OF THE 
  HAPLOTYPE IS THE ISSUE------IS ACTUALLY HILARIOUS


----------



## Phoenall

irosie91 said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> COHANIM.  There is a specific mutation that is present in Cohanim, believe it or not, and they really do think it likely comes from Aaron!  I don't know how they make that determination.  But at any rate, as that film addresses, there are just as many Palestinians as Jews who carry that mutation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aenmity     every profession has a lingo-----and those who misuse the lingo are
> quickly identified as frauds        Long long ago----when I was young----I spent
> a summer assigned to a public health facility-----in a rough city in my state----
> I was in my early 20s and ----by appearance looked 14   ------there were two major
> health problems   -----tuberculosis and CLAP.     Clap is controlled by asking afflicted
> males to name their female contacts.    The reason is CLAP is symptomatic in man---
> but silent in women-----it lives and creates trouble ----usually sterility in women---and
> sometimes just cooks on quietly for years------men get symptoms that bring them
> to the docs------greenish itchy discharge----drives the nuts..    Often at that time
> the named contacts were  "ladies of the night"       When it came to the LINGO --
> of the ladies of the nite------it was clear to them immediately-----that I was clueless.
> Simple could not keep up.     Similarly----when it comes to genetics----you are,  clearly,
> CLUELESS       ------did your source really refer to the cohen haplotype Y chromosome as
> a  "MUTATION" ???        the significance of the presence of the  cohen y chromosome
> haplotype is actually not so much as the fact that it exists------as the fact that jews
> who have it-------have known they have it for the past several thousand years-----
> the fact that they KNOW they are cohens            I understand that this concept is
> far beyond your grasp but  it is very very very significant in the issue of population
> genetics and the peoplehood of jews.       Your sense that the EXISTENCE OF THE
> HAPLOTYPE IS THE ISSUE------IS ACTUALLY HILARIOUS
Click to expand...





 It is like the "mutations" prevalent in arab genetics, from sickle cell anaemia to diabetes, not present in the Jewish community proving no inter breeding at all. When you rely on a 30 year old study to support your stance you run into brick walls and traps.


----------



## MJB12741

But what about those Zionists who kidnapped the Achille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheel chair by throwing him overboard.  I mean, they were Zionists wern't they?  Let us ask Amity.  Oh Gawd this board is fun.


QUOTE=50_RiaL;9353799]1968 - A Palestinian, Sirhan Sirhan, kills Robert Kennedy, America's brightest hope for the future!

1973 - Palestinians kill U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel and American diplomat George Curtis Moore in Sudan!

1997 - A Palestinian, Abu Kamal, opened fire on the 86th floor observation deck of the Empire State Building in New York City.  He kills one and wounds six innocent victims!

2000 - On the eve of Yom Kippur, a group of Palestinian men attacked a New York City synagogue with Molotov cocktail!. Mazin Assi, one of the attackers, was convicted of attempted arson, weapons charges and hate crimes, and sentenced to 15 years in prison. 

2001 - On 9/11, America's darkest day, Palestinians rejoice and dish out candies upon learning of American deaths! 

2003 - Palestinians name a square in Jenin after the Iraqi suicide bomber, Ali Ja'far al Na'mani, who killed four American soldiers in Southern Iraq.

"We want to honor the brave Iraqi officer who carried out the first suicide attack against the American and British occupiers," a senior Palestinian official in Jenin told The Jerusalem Post. "We hope there will be more suicide operations in the coming days."

Who are the "Palestinians?"  Anti-American POSs![/QUOTE]


----------



## MJB12741

Here is a perfect example of Who Are The Palestinians:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/world/middleeast/Israel-missing-teenagers.html?_r=0


----------



## MJB12741

Hmmm!  I wonder Amity seems to have so suddenly disappeared?  Heh Heh!






MJB12741 said:


> But what about those Zionists who kidnapped the Achille Lauro & murdered an elderly man in a wheel chair by throwing him overboard.  I mean, they were Zionists wern't they?  Let us ask Amity.  Oh Gawd this board is fun.
> 
> 
> QUOTE=50_RiaL;9353799]1968 - A Palestinian, Sirhan Sirhan, kills Robert Kennedy, America's brightest hope for the future!
> 
> 1973 - Palestinians kill U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel and American diplomat George Curtis Moore in Sudan!
> 
> 1997 - A Palestinian, Abu Kamal, opened fire on the 86th floor observation deck of the Empire State Building in New York City.  He kills one and wounds six innocent victims!
> 
> 2000 - On the eve of Yom Kippur, a group of Palestinian men attacked a New York City synagogue with Molotov cocktail!. Mazin Assi, one of the attackers, was convicted of attempted arson, weapons charges and hate crimes, and sentenced to 15 years in prison.
> 
> 2001 - On 9/11, America's darkest day, Palestinians rejoice and dish out candies upon learning of American deaths!
> 
> 2003 - Palestinians name a square in Jenin after the Iraqi suicide bomber, Ali Ja'far al Na'mani, who killed four American soldiers in Southern Iraq.
> 
> "We want to honor the brave Iraqi officer who carried out the first suicide attack against the American and British occupiers," a senior Palestinian official in Jenin told The Jerusalem Post. "We hope there will be more suicide operations in the coming days."
> 
> Who are the "Palestinians?"  Anti-American POSs!


[/QUOTE]


----------

