# And you wonder why Americans are fat.



## Skull Pilot (Dec 31, 2011)

I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)

I've done everything from raw foods only, vegetarianism, high carb low fat etc.

I always found that I felt something was missing, especially on the government recommended food pyramid.

Now the USDA food pyramid recommends 15% protein, 25% fats and 60% carbohydrates .

I came across anther food pyramid that illustrates why people who follow the USDA pyramid are getting fatter and fatter.

The feed lot pyramid is used as a guideline to fatten up livestock for slaughter.

It looks like this: 14% protein, 25% fats, 61% carbohydrates.

Is it any wonder Americans look like heifers and sows?


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## pinqy (Dec 31, 2011)

Skull Pilot said:


> I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> 
> I've done everything from raw foods only, vegetarianism, high carb low fat etc.
> 
> ...


Well, the pyramid is gone because of the controversy. It's been replaced by My Plate which recommends 30% grains 30% vegetables, 20% fruit, 20% protein.


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## skipper (Dec 31, 2011)

pinqy said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> 
> > I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> ...



That's more like it. Replaced all that white flour carb with the grains.


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## PredFan (Dec 31, 2011)

Predfan's three step plan to weight loss:

1. Everything in moderation.
2. Don't listen to the government at all.
3. Get off your ass.


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## Skull Pilot (Dec 31, 2011)

pinqy said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
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Still way too low in protein.


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## Gagafritz (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't know too many people are following and eating the Govt food pyramid.  Maybe people are fat cuz they eat too much crap and dont' exercise enough.  It isn't that hard to figure out.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 31, 2011)

Too many carbs is what makes you fat. It's the sugar.  Most people can lose weight simply by cutting out the soft drink and scaling back on the amount of carbs they eat, even without exercising.  Of course, sedentary lifestyles are a big part of it too.  Technology has made too many people in this country lazy and as a result the pounds are packing on.  It doesn't take much effort to take a short mile walk each day to get in some exercise.  Fat people disgust me.


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## Gagafritz (Dec 31, 2011)

I think i will quit posting here since i have to wait 30 seconds between going back and forth every thread.  Sheesh.  I can read and post a lot faster than that.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 31, 2011)

Gagafritz said:


> I think i will quit posting here since i have to wait 30 seconds between going back and forth every thread.  Sheesh.  I can read and post a lot faster than that.



You don't have to wait 30 seconds between going back and forth every thread.  Only between doing searches.


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## Gagafritz (Dec 31, 2011)

Well, i read one.  Then, i try to click on "New Posts" to get back to the main board.  SHould i click something different.  I can follow several threads at once and click back and forth between them.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 31, 2011)

Gagafritz said:


> Well, i read one.  Then, i try to click on "New Posts" to get back to the main board.  SHould i click something different.  I can follow several threads at once and click back and forth between them.



Ah yeah, for some reason "New Posts" is considered a search.  If you click on "US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum" at the top left, that takes back you back to the main forum page with all the categories listed.


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## Gagafritz (Dec 31, 2011)

OK.  Thanks!


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## merrill (Jan 8, 2012)

Exercise and sweet potatoes with cinnamon.

Then add more fruits and vegetables.

Carbs can sneak up on person and keep one busy working them off.


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## newpolitics (Jan 10, 2012)

Go Vegan, for your health, animal welfare, and the environment. The reason for so much cancer, diabetes, and cancer, is the standard American Diet, which includes far too many animals products. Check out the China study and the documentary Forks Over Knives. Yeah, yeah, I know... stupid vegan and his vegan propaganda. 

Calories in minus Calories out.

Factory Farming has to go, for your health, the environment, and the animals:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62UaDKdxos]Farm to Fridge - The Truth Behind Meat Production - YouTube[/ame]


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## Old Rocks (Jan 10, 2012)

Anybody in either my maternal or paternal family that dies before 80 years old is considered to have died young. Most live into their late 80's. Some have made it past 100. Most are active to at least their mid-80's. Many are mentally active and capable to the day that they die. A few of the women have suffered dementia in their last couple of years, but most do not.

And they eat almost anything that is put in front of them. Three factors seem to be in play, one, most do not smoke, two, few drink at all, and those that do, do so in moderation, and three, almost all keep physically active, even with arthritis or rheumatism.

Genetics and avoidance of the toxins of tobacco and excessive alcohol are a big part of their longevity, but I think most important is the fact that they remain physically and mentally active.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

newpolitics said:


> Go Vegan, for your health, animal welfare, and the environment. The reason for so much cancer, diabetes, and cancer, is the standard American Diet, which includes far too many animals products. Check out the China study and the documentary Forks Over Knives. Yeah, yeah, I know... stupid vegan and his vegan propaganda.
> 
> Calories in minus Calories out.
> 
> ...



We evolved to be omnivores.

Our brains are what they are today because we ate meat, specifically cooked meat.

And not all meat comes from the commercial industry.

I buy my beef from a local farm not 50 miles from me.  A couple friends and I buy a whole cow every year and freeze the beef.  I buy eggs from a friend of mine who keeps chickens.  I buy pastured poultry and heritage turkeys from a farm in RI and game meat from friends of mine who hunt.

You're not going to guilt me into that whole cruel and bad for the environment crap.

Besides that I have tried the vegetarian diet and found it to be lacking in B vitamins and quite frankly left me with little energy.  I have found that I have a sensitivity to insulin.  When I eat a high carb diet my body produced way too much insulin and as a result I gain weight and my blood chemistry goes wacko.


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## Care4all (Jan 11, 2012)

Gagafritz said:


> Well, i read one.  Then, i try to click on "New Posts" to get back to the main board.  SHould i click something different.  I can follow several threads at once and click back and forth between them.




Maybe if you set up the RSS Feed it would go faster on the updates?


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> newpolitics said:
> 
> 
> > Go Vegan, for your health, animal welfare, and the environment. The reason for so much cancer, diabetes, and cancer, is the standard American Diet, which includes far too many animals products. Check out the China study and the documentary Forks Over Knives. Yeah, yeah, I know... stupid vegan and his vegan propaganda.
> ...



have you visited these 'local' farms?   i am always amused at people who think they need to re invent the wheel with diets.....exercise more than you eat....seems rather simple to me....

game meat from hunters......i would worry that they are selling you the animals that they had to run down...will have an off taste....who butchers the game?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> 
> I've done everything from raw foods only, vegetarianism, high carb low fat etc.
> 
> ...




The root of American obesity is inactivity. Diet plays a role, but the main problem is inactivity.


The slimmest I've been since high school was during a period where I was consuming 5000+ calories per day. I was on the Appalachian trail hiking up 20 miles a day with a 50 lb backpack through rugged terrain. 

Now granted most normal Americans don't have all day to burn calories - but if you just look at New York City you see what happens if people just get in an average of 4 miles a day walking. This is barely over an hour a day of walking. Might seem like a lot to folks but many people have commutes by car that are about 30 minutes one way - if we could all just walk to work, like we had been doing for most all of history until recently, obesity would disappear as a major health issue.


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## Care4all (Jan 11, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Anybody in either my maternal or paternal family that dies before 80 years old is considered to have died young. Most live into their late 80's. Some have made it past 100. Most are active to at least their mid-80's. Many are mentally active and capable to the day that they die. A few of the women have suffered dementia in their last couple of years, but most do not.
> 
> And they eat almost anything that is put in front of them. Three factors seem to be in play, one, most do not smoke, two, few drink at all, and those that do, do so in moderation, and three, almost all keep physically active, even with arthritis or rheumatism.
> 
> Genetics and avoidance of the toxins of tobacco and excessive alcohol are a big part of their longevity, but I think most important is the fact that they remain physically and mentally active.


My grandfather ( from my mother's side) smoked, he quit when he was 67 years old, and according to him, he began smoking at 10 years old when he picked up a tossed cigarette butt  (ewwwwww, yes, GROSS), and he lived until he was 91.  He also drank in moderation....he had a glass of red vino, every night with dinner.....My grandmother who did not smoke, ever....lived until 87....her mother, my great grandmother, lived until 102....

My father, who was a smoker for 45-50 years, he quit when he was in his early 60's and he is 80 years old this year...(he too began smoking as a child, like grandpa)

but, my husband's father was also a smoker....and he died of cancer when he was only 57.... 

I think genes do have a lot to do with longevity too....


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## Ravi (Jan 11, 2012)

The best way to keep the weight off is to eat like you are diabetic.

Create Your Plate - American Diabetes Association

And as OohPah says, be active.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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Yes I have been to the farms because I have to pick up the meat. And really I'm not reinventing anything.  My diet is basically what people have eaten for millions of years.

It's the idiots today that say humans should eat a grain based diet that are screwing things up.

And I have been exercising almost daily since I was in High School.  Because of that I know my body better than most people and I can tell what diets have worked best because I see how they affect my performance.

I have no complaints about the taste of the venison and game fowl I buy from friends so you can wonder about the taste all you want.  It's just delicious.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> ...



Diet and exercise are inseparable.

If you exercise and eat like shit you won't be healthy.


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

there is  a diet for blood types have you looked into that?

a friend swears by it and has tested everyone's blood type.....its an interesting theory .....says only type a...can be real vegans....


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
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A 30 minute commute at 30 miles and hour a 15 mile commute.  Are you really suggesting that people walk for 5 hours just to get to work?


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## Care4all (Jan 11, 2012)

anytime, i have gone on a high protein/low carb diet, I have lost 6 lbs, the first week...

High protein does make you lose weight....even with all the fat calories that are in meat as well.....when you go on a diet of high proteins, you just lose weight....

I HAVE NO IDEA why this is the case????  but this is what happens with my body...


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

and might i add...to be all that and a bag of chips....

you seem to be one miserable human being.....

you think little of the people around you......it does seem....you seem to have a low opinion of everyone but yourself...why is that


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> there is  a diet for blood types have you looked into that?
> 
> a friend swears by it and has tested everyone's blood type.....its an interesting theory .....says only type a...can be real vegans....



I didn't know anything about insulin sensitivity until a few years ago.

Insulin is bad mojo if your body produces too much of it.  So I control it the only way possible, by limiting carbs.  As a result I have basically retrained my body to burn fat for energy rather than carbs (sugar)


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

Blood Type Diet

my friend has lost weight on this and so have her family......it may give you some more insight.....i dont know


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

and the latest diet fad seems to be the 'caveman' diet


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

Care4all said:


> anytime, i have gone on a high protein/low carb diet, I have lost 6 lbs, the first week...
> 
> High protein does make you lose weight....even with all the fat calories that are in meat as well.....when you go on a diet of high proteins, you just lose weight....
> 
> I HAVE NO IDEA why this is the case????  but this is what happens with my body...



It's quite simple.

A high protein (HP) diet changes the balance of insulin and glucagon in the blood.

Your blood sugar is lower as a result of HP and lower blood sugar.

This basically tricks your body into thinking it's hungry even though you're eating quite sufficient amounts of food so the fat burning kicks in via the raised glucagon levels.  Your body then burns fat.


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## editec (Jan 11, 2012)

Most Americans are fat because they eat too much and exercise too little.

If that is the cause of one's excess weight, I suspect that changing what you eat is probably not going to help much.

Of course there are people who have allergies to wheat and so forth, but frankly I doubt those conditions are the problem for the 40% or so of Americans who are overweight.

Of course the other villian for many Americans is SODA.  The annual per capita soda consumption in the USA is 150 Quarts!  That's about 450 empty calories per quart.

My local grocery store has an aisle about 100 ft long devoted to SODA on one side of it and junks food (chips and whatnot) on the other side.

I refer to this aisle as the AISLE OF DEATH.

There is NOTHING in that aisle that the body needs.  It is ALL junk.

Now if you eat a recommended diet (three meals a day) you're probably already overeating.

Throw in a couple sodas and snacks on top of that daily routine and you're simply eating TOO DAMNED MUCH.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> and the latest diet fad seems to be the 'caveman' diet



Why is it a fad?

Tell me what is extreme about eating meat, fruit, nuts and vegetables and not eating highly processed grains, sugars and dairy products?


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

i consider all these diets fads......esp when someone stands to profit off them....

but diets are important....all you have to do is look at native americans or first nations or what ever the fuck they are calling themselves now....to see that.....

once the indians changed their diets from basic meats and grains...they destroyed themselves....

and once women stopped breast feeding...they really did a disservice to their children....food allergies are worse....ear infections etc


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## Ravi (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> strollingbones said:
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> 
> > and the latest diet fad seems to be the 'caveman' diet
> ...



1. Cavemen didn't live very long.
2. It doesn't take into account that humans have evolved.
3. It doesn't take into account that cavemen did eat refined cereals.


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## Douger (Jan 11, 2012)

I prefer the camel toe and rum diet.


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

if i were in charge...the first thing i would do....outlaw formulas and baby food...simple as that....

start infants off healthy and its easier for them to stay healthy


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## mudwhistle (Jan 11, 2012)

Gagafritz said:


> I don't know too many people are following and eating the Govt food pyramid.  Maybe people are fat cuz they eat too much crap and dont' exercise enough.  It isn't that hard to figure out.



I lived in Germany for a couple of years. What they buy in the grocery store has more food value than what available here. I look at the products that are on our shelves and very little of it has solid food value. What does have wholesome food value you have to pay extra for. Look at what they're selling. Is there any wonder why we're fat?

Add to it the fact that most people don't walk anywhere. Asking them to walk a mile or even 5 miles is just too much to ask. Germany started Volksmarching back in the 60s because Germans were getting overweight which leads to health problems. If Michelle wants to improve everyone's health she needs to start up Volksmarching here in America, not try to outlaw fatty foods or drive up the price. Just about everyone in Germany walks on the weekends, ether through their parks or in locally sponsored events. Sidewalks are essential. Look at how many roads have no sidewalks. You're taking your life in your hands when you go for a walk. 

Then there's the constant food supply open for shopping 24/7. Stores used to close by 8pm during the week and weren't even open on Sunday. In Germany the stores close by 2pm on Saturday if they were open at all on weekends. They have tiny refrigerators, so you have to go to the store just about every day. They don't put sugar in everything. I used to like Italian dressing but now they put sugar or corn syrup in it. They try to put sugar in everything it seems. We wouldn't have to take supplements if our food had the nutrition it used to. Kids that lived on farms were always big strapping corn-fed mofos and they never took supplements. I didn't really start growing till I went in into the military, where they offer good food, lots of exercise, and very little junk food.


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## Ravi (Jan 11, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> if i were in charge...the first thing i would do....outlaw formulas and baby food...simple as that....
> 
> start infants off healthy and its easier for them to stay healthy


Not everyone is capable of breast feeding.


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## strollingbones (Jan 11, 2012)

and they can use wet nurses.......remember them?

most women given the time and education can successfully breast feed.....but our society makes it difficult to do so.....


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## ekrem (Jan 11, 2012)

Calculate the calories your body needs depending on the physical activity your body has to accomplish, and don't eat more than this. 
Recalculate this from time to time. It's really no science.
Food-pyramids come after that principle.

If you can't look at yourself naked in-front of a mirror,  you'd be normally dead in the old times as the extra-weight curtails your physical ability to keep you alive. Only modern society keeps you alive.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> i consider all these diets fads......esp when someone stands to profit off them....
> 
> but diets are important....all you have to do is look at native americans or first nations or what ever the fuck they are calling themselves now....to see that.....
> 
> ...



Who is profiting from people eating less grains and dairy?

I have bought nothing from anyone as far as my diet goes except food?

Tell me who profits from the government food pyramid?  The big agricultural and dairy companies that's who.  It's not bad enough that they get our tax money as subsidies but they also have the government acting as a marketing arm.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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These same old arguments.

Paleolithic men were more likely to die of accident, injury and infection than people today because their lifestyles were inherently dangerous and there were no medical miracles like antibiotics which we take for granted.

And How much do you think we have evolved physically over the last ten centuries since grains and starches became the largest part of our diets compared to the millions of years before that time.

If you think the wild grains and rices that made up a relatively small part of the hunter gatherer diet were anything like the genetically modified crap that we get now then you're in for a surprise.  







In just the last hundred years our food supply has been corrupted and is less diverse and less nutritious.  Over 90% of the wheat grown today is comprised of just 6 varieties that have been genetically corrupted compared to the hundreds of natural varieties that used to be grown


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## Ravi (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Ravi said:
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LOL! And you think the stuff you eat isn't???


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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Where did I say that?

I do however grow nothing but heirloom vegetables in my garden from seeds that have been traced back at least a hundred years.  

I do the best I can considering the state of our corrupt food supply.

I'm the first to admit that I am a food snob.  I would rather cook myself than eat out because I at least know the stuff I use is the best I can possibly get as far as both freshness and nutrition are concerned.


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## Ravi (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Ravi said:
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Nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with choosing the caveman diet....I just happen to think it's nonsense.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > Ravi said:
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I have done the research and not swallowed the food pyramid shit figuratively or literally.

I know a high protein moderate fat and low carb diet works for me metabolically and I know why it does.  There is no nonsense to it.


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## AquaAthena (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> 
> I've done everything from raw foods only, vegetarianism, high carb low fat etc.
> 
> ...



Americans are fat because they consume more fat and calories than they expend.  When complications from obesity begin happening, medical services are often free.  Not much incentive for people to watch their diets.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> ...



Eating fat does not make you fat.

Just another myth perpetrated by the low protein high carb crowd.

Eskimos lived on a high fat high protein diet for thousands of years and had low body fat and no heart disease.  The human body is better suited for burning fat for energy than it is sugar (carbs)

High insulin levels promoted by a high carb low protein low fat diet is a root cause of heart disease.

How Insulin Causes Heart Disease

So managing insulin levels is a good way to prevent heart disease.


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## newpolitics (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> newpolitics said:
> 
> 
> > Go Vegan, for your health, animal welfare, and the environment. The reason for so much cancer, diabetes, and cancer, is the standard American Diet, which includes far too many animals products. Check out the China study and the documentary Forks Over Knives. Yeah, yeah, I know... stupid vegan and his vegan propaganda.
> ...



I am glad to hear you do not buy factory farm meat, but I sincerely hope this goes for all of your animal products, because factory farms that produce meat, dairy, and eggs amount to a holocaust-like scenario (concentration camps). I am not trying to guilt anybody  into anything, just show people the reality of factory farming, because I believe it is likely against the values of most people, and if they only knew, would not want to support it. Therefore, it is only a matter of getting to them to see the truth behind it. 

By the way, meat did not make us smart. This is known as the Expensive Tissue Hypothesis proposed by Aiello and Wheeler in 1995 which says that there had to have been a trade-off between the enlarging brain and the digestive tract, and as such, we needed more nutrient dense food: meat. Unfortunately for this hypothesis, it has been retested using the same data and shown to be untrue. The reality, is that among mammals there is a negative correlation between brain and adipose tissue deposits (fat), because for quadrupeds, it takes a lot of energy to lug around fat. According to Keiblers Law, any given mammal with a certain mass only has a certain metabolism it can handle. If it is spending a lot of energy on inefficient locomotion to move around, it can't grow a larger brain. However, humans are an exception to this rule, because we evolved to become bipedal, which is far more energy efficient, which freed up energy for encephalization. Any increase in fat tissue for us, did not meat nearly as much calorie expenditure to move around that fat as it did for a quadruped. Here's an article that explains it:

PaleoVeganology: It's Curtains For The Expensive Tissue Hypothesis

"Navarrete's, et. al.'s, main findings (further details below) are:

-There is no negative correlation between brain size and gut size in any mammalian taxa, refuting the ETH's prediction to the contrary;

-There is, however, a strong negative correlation between brain size and adipose tissue deposits; that is, fatter animals have smaller brains than lean ones; and,

-Humans are seeming exceptions to this rule because our fat deposits don't interfere adversely with our means of locomotion, thus freeing up energy for encephalization that other primates have to use for carrying around all that fat."


Here's a link to a summary of the actual study in case you doubt the credibility of this vegan blog: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7375/full/nature10629.html

"The human brain stands out among mammals by being unusually large. The expensive-tissue hypothesis1 explains its evolution by proposing a trade-off between the size of the brain and that of the digestive tract, which is smaller than expected for a primate of our body size. Although this hypothesis is widely accepted, empirical support so far has been equivocal. Here we test it in a sample of 100 mammalian species, including 23 primates, by analysing brain size and organ mass data. We found that, controlling for fat-free body mass, brain size is not negatively correlated with the mass of the digestive tract or any other expensive organ, thus refuting the expensive-tissue hypothesis. Nonetheless, consistent with the existence of energy trade-offs with brain size, we find that the size of brains and adipose depots are negatively correlated in mammals, indicating that encephalization and fat storage are compensatory strategies to buffer against starvation. However, these two strategies can be combined if fat storage does not unduly hamper locomotor efficiency. We propose that human encephalization was made possible by a combination of stabilization of energy inputs and a redirection of energy from locomotion, growth and reproduction." (Navarette, Shaik, Isler)


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> I have tried many diet strategies in my life.




It's not rocket science, Tubbo. Eat less and exercise more. And stop laying around in bed with your boyfriend all day.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> > I have tried many diet strategies in my life.
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Stop chugging cock kunt hair and try to keep up with me

When one is trying to maximize athletic performance diet is indeed a science but since you don't do anything but sit on your gargantuan ass and watch sports on the idiot box you wouldn't know that would you?


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## High_Gravity (Jan 11, 2012)

Only thing we can really do is be active and hit the gym, and watch our diets.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 11, 2012)

New England Journal of Medicine



> In this 2-year dietary-intervention study, we found that the Mediterranean and low-carbohydrate diets are effective alternatives to the low-fat diet for weight loss and appear to be just as safe as the low-fat diet. *In addition to producing weight loss in this moderately obese group of participants, the low-carbohydrate and Mediterranean diets had some beneficial metabolic effects, a result suggesting that these dietary strategies might be considered in clinical practice and that diets might be individualized according to personal preferences and metabolic needs.* The similar caloric deficit achieved in all diet groups suggests that a low-carbohydrate, non&#8211;restricted-calorie diet may be optimal for those who will not follow a restricted-calorie dietary regimen. The increasing improvement in levels of some biomarkers over time up to the 24-month point, despite the achievement of maximum weight loss by 6 months, suggests that a diet with a healthful composition has benefits beyond weight reduction.



So according to the NEJM a low carb diet has beneficial metabolic effects.  Still a fad?  Still nonsense?

I don't think so.


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## Zoom-boing (Jan 11, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> if i were in charge...the first thing i would do....outlaw formulas and baby food...simple as that....
> 
> start infants off healthy and its easier for them to stay healthy



What are people who can't/are unsuccessful at breastfeeding suppose to do?


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## Zoom-boing (Jan 11, 2012)

Move more, eat less.
Shop and eat from the perimeter of the grocery store.
Carbs (fruits/veggies) won't make you fat, _processed _carbs and junk will.
Make half your plate veggies/fruit, the remaining half divide between protein and grains/starches.
Walk as much as possible.  Rescue a dog, or better yet two, from the spca and you_ will _walk more.
For losing weight exercise is important but ultimately it's how much you eat that will determine the scale going down or not.
Make exercise a part of your life in the same way you do with brushing your teeth or taking a shower.
No food is off limits . . . . moderation is key.


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Unkotare said:
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Too late to cover your fat ass now, Tubbo. You need to take care of the whole 'being a fatass' thing before you worry about maximizing athletic performance


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## Unkotare (Jan 11, 2012)

Zoom-boing said:


> strollingbones said:
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> 
> > if i were in charge...the first thing i would do....outlaw formulas and baby food...simple as that....
> ...



She clearly didn't think it through.


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## percysunshine (Jan 11, 2012)

Rangel had it. Deep fried twinkies wrapped in bacon;


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## mudwhistle (Jan 11, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> there is  a diet for blood types have you looked into that?
> 
> a friend swears by it and has tested everyone's blood type.....its an interesting theory .....says only type a...can be real vegans....



I've read mine. Says what I should stay away from. Smoked meats. Tropical fruit. Green olives.


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## mudwhistle (Jan 11, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> Rangel had it. Deep fried twinkies wrapped in bacon;








Bacon Wrapped Stuffed Jalapeno Peppers Recipe - Food.com - 152465


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 12, 2012)

Losing weight and getting into shape is very simple (not easy): eat healthy AND exercise. It's surprising how little Americans know about simple basics: such as the difference between good carbs and bad carbs-so many people write all carbs off as bad, and they should be avoided at all costs. It just takes tons of dedicated-I used to obese and lost about 80 lbs (and gained quite a bit muscle mass), just by burning off more calories then I take in, and taking a multi-vitamin every day.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 12, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Losing weight and getting into shape is very simple (not easy): eat healthy AND exercise. It's surprising how little Americans know about simple basics: such as the difference between good carbs and bad carbs-so many people write all carbs off as bad, and they should be avoided at all costs. It just takes tons of dedicated-I used to obese and lost about 80 lbs (and gained quite a bit muscle mass), just by burning off more calories then I take in, and taking a multi-vitamin every day.



You obviously know nothing about low carb diets


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## Katzndogz (Jan 12, 2012)

Everyone is looking for the magic "thing" to do that will magically result in weight loss.  There isn't any.  You can try diets until the end of time.  None of them really work and when they do work it's not for long.   Eat less, exercise more and change your muscle to fat ratio.  Without changing that muscle to fat ratio, once you stop severe dieting you will simply gain it all back.  

It is not easy. It is downright hard and requires intense concentration.  Sweet/Fat withdrawal is painful like any other drug withdrawal.  It is tolerable only if you understand that once you go through that withdawal you no longer want those things.  They won't taste good anymore.   What you used to love will be cloyingly sweet or greasy.  UGH.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Everyone is looking for the magic "thing" to do that will magically result in weight loss.  There isn't any.  You can try diets until the end of time.  None of them really work and when they do work it's not for long.   Eat less, exercise more and change your muscle to fat ratio.  Without changing that muscle to fat ratio, once you stop severe dieting you will simply gain it all back.
> 
> It is not easy. It is downright hard and requires intense concentration.  Sweet/Fat withdrawal is painful like any other drug withdrawal.  It is tolerable only if you understand that once you go through that withdawal you no longer want those things.  They won't taste good anymore.   What you used to love will be cloyingly sweet or greasy.  UGH.



Assuming the term diet is referring specifically for weight loss is a mistake.

I am not trying to lose weight and yet I adopted a low carb diet as a way of eating because after some blood work recommended by a friend of mine I found my fasting insulin levels were rather high and my cholesterol ratio was not where it should be. I was having some problems with inflammation in my joints as well

All of these things can be linked directly to high insulin levels.  A low carb eating strategy solves the problem of hyperinsulinemia and insulin resistance by resetting the body's insulin receptors and making them more sensitive.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 12, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Everyone is looking for the magic "thing" to do that will magically result in weight loss.  There isn't any.  You can try diets until the end of time.  None of them really work and when they do work it's not for long.   Eat less, exercise more and change your muscle to fat ratio.  Without changing that muscle to fat ratio, once you stop severe dieting you will simply gain it all back.
> 
> It is not easy. It is downright hard and requires intense concentration.  Sweet/Fat withdrawal is painful like any other drug withdrawal.  It is tolerable only if you understand that once you go through that withdawal you no longer want those things.  They won't taste good anymore.   What you used to love will be cloyingly sweet or greasy.  UGH.



I exercise 3 days out of the week now but I'm not ready to give up on eating the things I like likes Churchs Chicken and drinking beer.


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## Unkotare (Jan 12, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone is looking for the magic "thing" to do that will magically result in weight loss.  There isn't any.  You can try diets until the end of time.  None of them really work and when they do work it's not for long.   Eat less, exercise more and change your muscle to fat ratio.  Without changing that muscle to fat ratio, once you stop severe dieting you will simply gain it all back.
> ...





And as long as you're not a fat load like Skullfuck there you don't have to. Most things in moderation work out alright.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 12, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone is looking for the magic "thing" to do that will magically result in weight loss.  There isn't any.  You can try diets until the end of time.  None of them really work and when they do work it's not for long.   Eat less, exercise more and change your muscle to fat ratio.  Without changing that muscle to fat ratio, once you stop severe dieting you will simply gain it all back.
> ...



I drink less beer than I used to but I found a good scotch or bourbon on the rocks works as well as beer and doesn't have the high carb count that beer does.


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## strollingbones (Jan 12, 2012)

twinkles declared chapter 11 cause of people like you!


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## High_Gravity (Jan 12, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Very true, wine has less carbs too I think.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 12, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Dry wines definitely do


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 12, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> twinkles declared chapter 11 cause of people like you!



I never liked twinkies anyway


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## lizzie (Jan 12, 2012)

Americans look like heifers and sows because they eat like heifers and sows. Many Americans are so psychologically screwed up and so far-removed from reality that satiating their base urges is about the best thing they can come up with to do.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 13, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > Losing weight and getting into shape is very simple (not easy): eat healthy AND exercise. It's surprising how little Americans know about simple basics: such as the difference between good carbs and bad carbs-so many people write all carbs off as bad, and they should be avoided at all costs. It just takes tons of dedicated-I used to obese and lost about 80 lbs (and gained quite a bit muscle mass), just by burning off more calories then I take in, and taking a multi-vitamin every day.
> ...




I know that the overwhelming majority of low-carb diets don't work. Diets in general don't work-because when people get off of them-they resort to the way they were before. You have to change your lifestyle-not just temporarily change what you eat.

As I said there is such things as "good carbs". Carbs are a form of energy and like protein are only 4 cals per g (fat is 9)-hence why to lose weight stay away from calories from fat. Your body doesn't want to burn off energy from protein/muscle right away-it would rather burn off your glycogen first, then your fat reserves. There's no way to "train your body to burn off protein" (which even if you could is stupid for weight loss-because you'd be burning off your muscle mass-and not fat reserves).

Fiber for example is a carb. It regulates blood sugar levels (HDL and LDL), helps your digestive system, and for weight loss leaves you feeling satisfied/full. Simple carbs should be avoided-but complex carbs are good for you.

There's a reason why professional athletes have diets high in carbs (whole wheat pasta for example)-because it's a good source of energy.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 13, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...



Fat is a better source of energy than sugar. And I don't eat a low carb diet for weight loss but a low carb diet is certainly an excellent and healthy way to lose weight.

Fiber is an unusable form of a carbohydrate which is why when counting carbs one deducts the fiber from the gross carb count.  So a person on a low carb diet does eat and in fact should eat foods that are high in fiber as it reduces the actual carb count.

Insulin especially excess insulin has more of an effect on cholesterol than fiber.

You have fallen for every lie in the book when it comes to a low carb diet

As I said you don't know what you're talking about.


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## Zoom-boing (Jan 13, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...



I disagree with this.  Fat helps satiate your hunger and helps to keep you fuller, longer and some fats (evoo) are good for you.  The 'low-fat' alternatives are usually loaded with sugar or some sugar-like substitute to compensate for the lack of fat.  And they frequently taste like crap.  Look at the calorie count and the 'low-fat' stuff often isn't 'low calorie'.  A little of the real thing is much better and better for you than a lot of the fake thing.  Just my 2 cents.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 13, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...




So now you're saying that fiber (which is a carb) shouldn't count as a carb in a diet because it's good for you? Pretty sure I clearly said there is such thing as a "good carb" and a "bad carb".

Fruit and Vegetables are carbs-are you going to honestly say that fruit and vegetables are bad for you? 

And fat isn't a better source of energy than complex carbs. You need to consume twice as much fat to get the same amount of energy. Eat a meal from Mcdonalds which is loaded in fat and go to the gym. Then the next day eat pasta as a meal and go to the gym. I guarantee you'll be much more productive and have more energy after eating the pasta, than eating the Mcdonalds.





Zoom-boing said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



I didn't mean to suggest go lower calories on everything, but lower calories from fat (there's a difference). Low calories and low fat isn't the same thing. Of course you can't completely eliminate fat intake (and you shouldn't)-but if somebody's overweight-your body already has an excessive amount of fat stored in the body. And by consume less fat I meant eating other types of foods entirely not the "lower fat" substitutes (which I agree are just as bad-if not worse).


----------



## Skull Pilot (Jan 13, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...



No I said fiber is unusable by the body and id not counted as a carb.  It's you who can't seem to understand that.



> Fruit and Vegetables are carbs-are you going to honestly say that fruit and vegetables are bad for you?



Where did I ever say carbs are bad for you?  Please find that quote.  the term is low carb diet not no carb diet



> And fat isn't a better source of energy than complex carbs. You need to consume twice as much fat to get the same amount of energy. Eat a meal from Mcdonalds which is loaded in fat and go to the gym. Then the next day eat pasta as a meal and go to the gym. I guarantee you'll be much more productive and have more energy after eating the pasta, than eating the Mcdonalds.



No one who is serious wold even consider eating the shit they serve at McDungswill's
You seem not to realize that fast food is extremely carb heavy.

The liver will convert the protein of a high protein low cab diet to glucose but the liver needs fuel to do this and fat is that fuel.  So you see you're not getting the energy from fat but from protein that is broken down by the liver.

Fat does not spike insulin levels as sugar does and we know that insulin is a major role player in heart disease and high cholesterol and blood pressure.



Zoom-boing said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > I know that the overwhelming majority of low-carb diets don't work. Diets in general don't work-because when people get off of them-they resort to the way they were before. You have to change your lifestyle-not just temporarily change what you eat.
> ...





> I didn't mean to suggest go lower calories on everything, but lower calories from fat (there's a difference). Low calories and low fat isn't the same thing. Of course you can't completely eliminate fat intake (and you shouldn't)-but if somebody's overweight-your body already has an excessive amount of fat stored in the body. And by consume less fat I meant eating other types of foods entirely not the "lower fat" substitutes (which I agree are just as bad-if not worse).



Eating fat does not make you fat.  Eating eggs and meat does not raise serum cholesterol

My god the food pyramid has you brain washed doesn't it?


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## newpolitics (Jan 13, 2012)

the reason for obesity and heart disease is the Standard American Diet: too much meat, dairy, and eggs. But, we love to torture animals in factory farms and vehemently defend it so we will not give it up.


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## koshergrl (Jan 13, 2012)

newpolitics said:


> Go Vegan, for your health, animal welfare, and the environment. The reason for so much cancer, diabetes, and cancer, is the standard American Diet, which includes far too many animals products. Check out the China study and the documentary Forks Over Knives. Yeah, yeah, I know... stupid vegan and his vegan propaganda.
> 
> Calories in minus Calories out.
> 
> ...


 
FOR THE ANIMALS!

Oh, brother, lol...


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## koshergrl (Jan 13, 2012)

The reason we're obese is the availability of refined sugar, flour, and products made with those things..plus all the weird non-food crap we doctor regular food with.

Throw away table sugar, white bread, cereal, and anything with refined flour or added sugar and preservatives in it. Watch the weight fall off.

We aren't fat because we like to torture animals and eat meat. That's just silly.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 13, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...





Where did I ever say carbs are bad for you?  Please find that quote.  the term is low carb diet not no carb diet



No one who is serious wold even consider eating the shit they serve at McDungswill's
You seem not to realize that fast food is extremely carb heavy.

The liver will convert the protein of a high protein low cab diet to glucose but the liver needs fuel to do this and fat is that fuel.  So you see you're not getting the energy from fat but from protein that is broken down by the liver.

Fat does not spike insulin levels as sugar does and we know that insulin is a major role player in heart disease and high cholesterol and blood pressure. [/quote]

-Your body burns glycogen before it burns off anything else (including fat and protein).

-Fiber has been proven to help control blood sugar levels, lower LDL. While it's not digested that doesn't mean it's "unusable by the body".

-Fiber IS a carb...whether you chose to count it as one or not.

-Of course McDonalds is also loaded with carbs-that was my point. Because pasta is loaded with carbs as well. Yet one gives you a much better source of energy. Hence "good carbs" vs "bad carbs".

-Not all carbs spike insulin levels. White pasta does, whole wheat pasta doesn't (using pasta because I used it as an example before).



Zoom-boing said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > I know that the overwhelming majority of low-carb diets don't work. Diets in general don't work-because when people get off of them-they resort to the way they were before. You have to change your lifestyle-not just temporarily change what you eat.
> ...



I didn't mean to suggest go lower calories on everything, but lower calories from fat (there's a difference). Low calories and low fat isn't the same thing. Of course you can't completely eliminate fat intake (and you shouldn't)-but if somebody's overweight-your body already has an excessive amount of fat stored in the body. And by consume less fat I meant eating other types of foods entirely not the "lower fat" substitutes (which I agree are just as bad-if not worse).[/QUOTE]

Eating fat does not make you fat.  Eating eggs and meat does not raise serum cholesterol

My god the food pyramid has you brain washed doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

Eating fat doesn't make you fat. But fat that isn't burned off, or used by the body gets stored in your body as fat-as with the other forms of caloric intake.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 13, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> The reason we're obese is the availability of refined sugar, flour, and products made with those things..plus all the weird non-food crap we doctor regular food with.
> 
> Throw away table sugar, white bread, cereal, and anything with refined flour or added sugar and preservatives in it. Watch the weight fall off.
> 
> We aren't fat because we like to torture animals and eat meat. That's just silly.



This.


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## koshergrl (Jan 13, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...


 
-Your body burns glycogen before it burns off anything else (including fat and protein).

-Fiber has been proven to help control blood sugar levels, lower LDL. While it's not digested that doesn't mean it's "unusable by the body".

-Fiber IS a carb...whether you chose to count it as one or not.

-Of course McDonalds is also loaded with carbs-that was my point. Because pasta is loaded with carbs as well. Yet one gives you a much better source of energy. Hence "good carbs" vs "bad carbs".

-Not all carbs spike insulin levels. White pasta does, whole wheat pasta doesn't (using pasta because I used it as an example before).



Zoom-boing said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > I know that the overwhelming majority of low-carb diets don't work. Diets in general don't work-because when people get off of them-they resort to the way they were before. You have to change your lifestyle-not just temporarily change what you eat.
> ...


 
I didn't mean to suggest go lower calories on everything, but lower calories from fat (there's a difference). Low calories and low fat isn't the same thing. Of course you can't completely eliminate fat intake (and you shouldn't)-but if somebody's overweight-your body already has an excessive amount of fat stored in the body. And by consume less fat I meant eating other types of foods entirely not the "lower fat" substitutes (which I agree are just as bad-if not worse).[/QUOTE]

Eating fat does not make you fat. Eating eggs and meat does not raise serum cholesterol

My god the food pyramid has you brain washed doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

Eating fat doesn't make you fat. But fat that isn't burned off, or used by the body gets stored in your body as fat-as with the other forms of caloric intake.[/QUOTE]

B-b-but...the food pyramid is SCIENTIFIC!


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 13, 2012)

newpolitics said:


> the reason for obesity and heart disease is the Standard American Diet: too much meat, dairy, and eggs. But, we love to torture animals in factory farms and vehemently defend it so we will not give it up.



Wrong.

Obesity and heart disease is caused by our grain based diet

Carbs against Cardio: More Evidence that Refined Carbohydrates, not Fats, Threaten the Heart: Scientific American



> In March the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition published a meta-analysiswhich combines data from several studiesthat compared the reported daily food intake of nearly 350,000 people against their risk of developing cardiovascular disease over a period of five to 23 years. The analysis, overseen by Ronald M. Krauss, director of atherosclerosis research at the Childrens Hospital Oakland Research Institute, *found no association between the amount of saturated fat consumed and the risk of heart disease.
> *
> In 2008 Stampfer co-authored a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that followed 322 moderately obese individuals for two years as they adopted one of three diets: a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet based on American Heart Association guidelines; a Mediterranean, restricted-calorie diet rich in vegetables and low in red meat; and a low-carbohydrate, nonrestricted-calorie diet. *Although the subjects on the low-carb diet ate the most saturated fat, they ended up with the healthiest ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol and lost twice as much weight as their low-fat-eating counterparts.*



It is the excess insulin caused by a high carb diet that causes heart disease high cholesterol and high blood pressure

We pump out so much insulin to deal with the high sugar diets that have been praised to the high heavens that our insulin receptors are desensitized and the body must produce higher levels of insulin than normal.

How Insulin Causes Heart Disease


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 13, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


 
Eating fat does not make you fat. Eating eggs and meat does not raise serum cholesterol

My god the food pyramid has you brain washed doesn't it?[/QUOTE]



> Eating fat doesn't make you fat. But fat that isn't burned off, or used by the body gets stored in your body as fat-as with the other forms of caloric intake.


 
B-b-but...the food pyramid is SCIENTIFIC![/QUOTE]

You're talking calories here not fat.  We know that one can eat a diet that is high in fat and protein and still lose weight as long as carbs are restricted.


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## Zoom-boing (Jan 13, 2012)

Skull, when you say 'as long as carbs are restricted', are you referring to processed carbs (such as pastas, breads, grains) or fruit/veggies or both?


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## koshergrl (Jan 13, 2012)

the carbs found in processed foods, fruit and starchy veggies.

Not the carbs in dark green veggies...


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 13, 2012)

Zoom-boing said:


> Skull, when you say 'as long as carbs are restricted', are you referring to processed carbs (such as pastas, breads, grains) or fruit/veggies or both?



It really doesn't matter.  All carbs are converted to sugar by the body some just faster than others.

Eating a very small potato is equivalent to eating a quarter cup of white sugar. 

I eat plenty of vegetables and some fruit mostly berries.  I just choose the ones that are naturally low in carbs.

It's not unusual for me to eat less than 50 grams of net carbs (total carb minus fiber) a day and some days I'll eat under 20 grams.

My blood pressure is low normal, my cholesterol is LDL/HDL is 110/ 68

While I was eating a low protein low fat high carb diet my LDL was over 160 and LDL was under 40

The reason was hyperinsulinemia caused by a high sugar diet.

This guy explains the metabolic stuff better than anyone

The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. » Are we meat eaters or vegetarians? Part III


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## newpolitics (Jan 13, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> newpolitics said:
> 
> 
> > Go Vegan, for your health, animal welfare, and the environment. The reason for so much cancer, diabetes, and cancer, is the standard American Diet, which includes far too many animals products. Check out the China study and the documentary Forks Over Knives. Yeah, yeah, I know... stupid vegan and his vegan propaganda.
> ...



really? You gladly support the torture of animals in factory farms? Do you even know what goes on in factory farms? Or, do you not have the guts to look, while at the same time mocking those who do and are trying to enlighten others? Don't be so predictable.


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## auditor0007 (Jan 15, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> pinqy said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



I have always eaten a high protein low carb diet.  Low carb does not mean no carb.  I also eat plenty of fruits and veggies.  Until the last five years or so, I was always considered skinny or underweight.  Now I am still slim but no longer skinny.  I've never eaten anything that is no fat and very few low fat items.  About six years ago, my cholesterol was 244.  I stopped eating lunch at the fast food joints and switched to ham and turkey sandwiches.  Now my cholesterol is 149.


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## auditor0007 (Jan 15, 2012)

koshergrl said:


> The reason we're obese is the availability of refined sugar, flour, and products made with those things..plus all the weird non-food crap we doctor regular food with.
> 
> Throw away table sugar, white bread, cereal, and anything with refined flour or added sugar and preservatives in it. Watch the weight fall off.
> 
> We aren't fat because we like to torture animals and eat meat. That's just silly.



While the food we eat may help to fatten us up a little, the real reason so many Americans are fat is because they don't exercise.  This starts with our kids.  The little fucking rodents sit in front of the TV playing video games all day long instead of going outside and burning some of that energy off.  And while they are sitting there playing their stupid games, they are snacking on bad processed foods.  So yea, the sugars and all the processed flour is bad, but the real problem is these kids are lazy and parents are promoting this.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 15, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
> ...


 


> Eating fat doesn't make you fat. But fat that isn't burned off, or used by the body gets stored in your body as fat-as with the other forms of caloric intake.


 
B-b-but...the food pyramid is SCIENTIFIC![/QUOTE]

You're talking calories here not fat.  We know that one can eat a diet that is high in fat and protein and still lose weight as long as carbs are restricted.[/QUOTE]

If you're talking just calories and not fat. Your logic of high fat and high protein with low carbs will lose you weight....then by default you're also saying a diet high in fat and carbs but low in protein will also lose you weight? Why?

Because:

1gram of proten=4 calories
1gram of carbs=4 calorites

If your argument is that you're discussing calories-quite frankly it makes absolutely no sense.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 15, 2012)

newpolitics said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > newpolitics said:
> ...



I get your point, but in all fairness you can just chose to buy animals that are free-range, or organic to avoid these issues. Supporting companies that don't practice in factory farms, or animal cruelty is the best way to get at those that do-not by simply purchasing no meat/animal products. And going vegan goes farther than just eating animals for meat, a true vegan stays away from all animal products (milk, honey, etc). Also a "real vegan" would use vegan shampoos/soaps (yes they exist), and clothes/shoes not derived by animals either.

I'm willing to bet if someone looked around your house, they'd find at least on item/product that's not really "vegan".


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## Douger (Jan 15, 2012)

They key to maintaining weight and health is to expend as much energy, in buying, preparing, serving and eating the meals you you want to eat.
If you can get fresh corn, maters etc. Spend the time needed to fuck with it and forget the cans.
Make your own bread. Grow some things.Buy whole chickens and cut them up yourself. Buy a grain mill and grind your own grits(coffee too !). 
Get an ole fashioned crank grinder and grind your own ground meats. Wash the fucking dishes instead of stuffing them in a machine.Wash your own car. Cut your own grass. Split your own wood (buy it unsplit-if applicable.)
Clean your own gutters, paint your own shit, change your own oil and rake your own leaves. Throw the fucking TV away.
If The Speedy is a 15 minute walk leave the cars in the driveway and walk, or jump on the bike(in my case-horse)
 In short ?
 Put an A back in front of murkin and act like your ancestors.They made America. You(*we*) lost the A and became murka
Your great, or great great grandparents would look at you idiots and say... What the FUCK is that !

I corrected my life. Mine would be cool with what I have been up to the lat 10 or 12 years.
OK . I'm still a party animal slut dog but I'm doing it right !


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 16, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


 


> Eating fat doesn't make you fat. But fat that isn't burned off, or used by the body gets stored in your body as fat-as with the other forms of caloric intake.


 


> B-b-but...the food pyramid is SCIENTIFIC!





> You're talking calories here not fat.  We know that one can eat a diet that is high in fat and protein and still lose weight as long as carbs are restricted.





> If you're talking just calories and not fat. Your logic of high fat and high protein with low carbs will lose you weight....then by default you're also saying a diet high in fat and carbs but low in protein will also lose you weight? Why?
> 
> Because:
> 
> ...



I'm not discussing calories.  I'm discussing metabolic processes.

The calories from protein and fat do not raise insulin levels.

High fasting insulin is caused by a desensitization of insulin receptors that is a direct result of a high sugar diet.  This desensitization makes it necessary for the body to produce more and more insulin to deal with the sugar from a high carb diet.

I've already posted links to how high insulin levels contribute to heart disease, high cholesterol and high blood pressure.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 16, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Not all sugar affects the body the same way. I don't know what about that is so hard to understand. You are aware that there are many different types of sugar right? You can't just look at all sugars in the same way-because they don't effect your body in the same way. And you provided links? Fine.

Carbohydrates: Good Carbs Guide the Way - What Should I Eat? - The Nutrition Source - Harvard School of Public Health


There's a reason why low carb diets aren't that successful and were fads (Atkins) and why a plan like Weight Watchers is and has been very successful. 


The bottom line with losing weight is simple:

For ever 3,500 calories you eat you gain a pound, for every 3,500 calories you burn-you lose a weight. And you cannot train your body to burn off any type of energy over another, or "spot" reduce weight either.


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## lizzie (Jan 16, 2012)

Yep- it's a numbers game. Always has been.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 16, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
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ALL sugar raises insulin levels.  Why can't you understand that?

More and more people are eating Primal and low carb than ever before and are thriving.

The problem with people going on a low carb diet is that they view it as temporary and as soon as they start eating like cows again they get fat yet again and often fatter than they were before.

You do realize that one can be at a good weight and still have a fucked up body chemistry don't you?  I know plenty of people who eat like cows and even though they are slim are on blood pressure and cholesterol medication.

There is a reason for that and I have given you scientific evidence  and you have given me nothing but so called conventional wisdom which is failing because it is inherently flawed.

And I mentioned in my first post that diet does not necessarily a mean weight loss program.

But then again you have not refuted that those who pursue a low carb high protein high fat program to lose weight not only lose more weight but also have better blood chemistry than those who pursue a low protein low fat high carb plan.

There is a reason for that and it is that we were not meant to eat like cows.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 17, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
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> > Skull Pilot said:
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I gave you Harvard as a resource-you're using doctors who own diet programs that they want to sell to people. Talk to your own doctor or a nutritionist-that's what I suggest everybody do. I did (my doctor-not a nutritionist), and lost tons of weight-and have kept it off, I'm in better shape than I was in high school, my blood pressure is always perfect (and I'm at a high risk-as my father has high blood pressure). It's not hard to figure out (but does take dedication). 

For full disclosure, I will say that I do go workout everyday (weight 5 days a week, and cardio everyday), and have played ice-hockey my whole life. After everytime I lift weights I do also take a protein shake. So I'm not anti-protein, of course it's important. But carbs are extremely important.

But as I said before-go eat a meal high in protein and fat, low in carbs and workout. Then eat a meal high in carbs (whole wheat, fruits/veges), moderate in protein and low in fat (not without fat)-and see how you perform. Go running, or lift weight, or anything that you can track how well you do. I guarantee you'll have more energy and will be more productive with the second option.

And the difference between you and me in this thread is simple-anybody can go back and read. I'm staying on the same topic and the same view. In some posts you talk about weight loss, in others you say you're not talking about weight loss. In one paragraph you'll say yes that fiber is a carb-but that you don't count it as a carb (openling choosing to neglect a fact is astonishing to me). You then say that fat is a better source of energy than carbs are.

So here's a few basic points I'll make that you've been avoiding throughout the thread:

-If fat is a better source of energy than carbs-than why does your body chose to burn off glycogen off before burning off fat (hence ketosis)?

-How is eating more fat than carbs going to lose you more weight in the long run when 1gm of fat=9cals and 1gram of carbs=4cals?

-Explain how fiber is "unusable" by the body-other than not being digestible. If not being able to be physical digestible means it's "unusable"-then why does eating corn give you cals?

There's a lot of flaws in your logic, and you haven't backed it up with "science". Actually you even claimed that I had fallen for lies of "the books". You keep posting information from organizations selling fad diets (or affiliated with them), I'd love to see an unbiased source that claims that diets consuming low carbs are healthy for you.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 17, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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You assume I don't work out?  An hour work out is a warm up for me.  I bike, run, and do a variety of weights and body weight exercises.  I have no problem with endurance being on a low carb regimen



> And the difference between you and me in this thread is simple-anybody can go back and read. I'm staying on the same topic and the same view. In some posts you talk about weight loss, in others you say you're not talking about weight loss. In one paragraph you'll say yes that fiber is a carb-but that you don't count it as a carb (openling choosing to neglect a fact is astonishing to me). You then say that fat is a better source of energy than carbs are.



I was answering questions about weigh loss posed by other posters.  And it is possible to talk about 2 aspects of one subject.  But regardless the reason why low carb is so good for weight loss is the very reason that it's healthier than eating like a cow.



> So here's a few basic points I'll make that you've been avoiding throughout the thread:
> 
> -If fat is a better source of energy than carbs-than why does your body chose to burn off glycogen off before burning off fat (hence ketosis)?



OK I'll say i again.  The liver uses fat to turn protein into glucose and glucose is used for fuel.  This is done without spiking insulin levels.  A high carb diet desensitizes insulin receptors so the body produces more and more insulin.  Over time it is high levels of insulin that cause heart disease.  Hence fat is better than carbs (sugar)



> -How is eating more fat than carbs going to lose you more weight in the long run when 1gm of fat=9cals and 1gram of carbs=4cals?



Now you're talking calories again.  If you're counting calories then count them 



> -Explain how fiber is "unusable" by the body-other than not being digestible. If not being able to be physical digestible means it's "unusable"-then why does eating corn give you cals?



I've done all this before but here we go again.

The carbs in fiber are unusable and do not cause insulin spikes. Is that so hard to understand?



> There's a lot of flaws in your logic, and you haven't backed it up with "science". Actually you even claimed that I had fallen for lies of "the books". You keep posting information from organizations selling fad diets (or affiliated with them), I'd love to see an unbiased source that claims that diets consuming low carbs are healthy for you.



The link from the New England Journal of medicine with the results of a scientific study weren't science?  How about the one from Scientific American; what were they trying to sell?

And I haven't bought anything from anyone regarding diets.  And if you think Weight Watchers doesn't want to sell you anything then you're wrong, again.


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## Unkotare (Jan 17, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> You assume I don't work out?  An hour work out is a warm up for me. .





LOL. The hour it takes you to peel your fat ass off the couch doesn't count, Tubbo.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 17, 2012)

Obviously some of you , James in Florida, can't differentiate between low carb and no carb.

So here we go yet again.

On a low carb regimen for weight loss (and I'll specify here because there is more confusion about the term diet) A low carb weight loss regimen will have a person eating less than 50 grams of carbs a day not including carbs from fiber because fiber doesn't spike insulin levels.

50 g of carb is about 4 slices of wheat bread or 8 cups of raspberries or 40 spears of asparagus

I'll eat berries and asparagus instead of bread.

Since the average (fat) American eats over 60% of calories from  carbs and 15% from protein any regimen that replaces carbs with protein can be considered a low carb diet.

If the average (fat) American eats 3000 calories a day then a full 1800 of those calories are sugar and only 450 are protein.

A regimen that swaps protein for carbs would have one eating 1800 calories of protein and 450 of carbs.

Now 450 calories of carbs can be 64 asparagus spears, 25 cups of cabbage, 30+ cups of cauliflower.

Get the picture yet?   I am on a low carb regimen but I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables in lieu of high carb crap like grain based products.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 17, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Obviously some of you , James in Florida, can't differentiate between low carb and no carb.
> 
> So here we go yet again.
> 
> ...



If you eat plenty of fruits and veges-then you eat plenty of carbs.


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## Big Fitz (Jan 17, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> 
> I've done everything from raw foods only, vegetarianism, high carb low fat etc.
> 
> ...


I *herd* about the feed lot plan years ago.  Was very disturbed and ended the credibility of government health/food plans for me.


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## masquerade (Jan 17, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> AquaAthena said:
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And managing insulin levels is a good way to rid one's body of those extra pounds.  I am living proof.


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## masquerade (Jan 17, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> *Losing weight and getting into shape is very simple (not easy):* eat healthy AND exercise. It's surprising how little Americans know about simple basics: such as the difference between good carbs and bad carbs-so many people write all carbs off as bad, and they should be avoided at all costs. It just takes tons of dedicated-I used to obese and lost about 80 lbs (and gained quite a bit muscle mass), just by burning off more calories then I take in, and taking a multi-vitamin every day.



Not easy?
Says you.

I've lost a significant amount of weight and it's been quite easy.  Effortless in fact.  I keep my insulin levels under control by cutting out the carbs and refined sugars.  I eat meat and eggs, veggies, fruits and nuts and I drink ample amounts of water on any given day.  I'm rarely hungry and I don't have those spikes in my insulin levels that leave me tired and craving something sweet.  I work out on a regular basis now and honestly, I've never felt better.  The past four months have been some of the easiest weight loss I've ever experienced.  I know I can eat whatever I want.  I now choose to eat healthy foods.  It's as simple as that.


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## Big Fitz (Jan 17, 2012)

Heck, for me, the number one improvement in my life has been reducing/eliminating Sodium Nitrite/Nitrate, Sodium Phosphate and MSG from my life.  40 lbs later, and radically reduced pitting edema has been the result.  For me that's not as much as I'd have liked to lose, but I'm very happy with it.

Now to get off more carbs too as they're bad for me.


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## masquerade (Jan 17, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone is looking for the magic "thing" to do that will magically result in weight loss.  There isn't any.  You can try diets until the end of time.  None of them really work and when they do work it's not for long.   Eat less, exercise more and change your muscle to fat ratio.  Without changing that muscle to fat ratio, once you stop severe dieting you will simply gain it all back.
> ...



I've got to give up the Bailey's I've found myself drinking during the past couple of playoff games.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 17, 2012)

masquerade said:


> High_Gravity said:
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I love Baileys Irish cream, I should get a bottle of that soon.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 17, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously some of you , James in Florida, can't differentiate between low carb and no carb.
> ...



Finally you see that a low carb diet is more than sufficient.  So do you realize now that you probably eat too many carbs?


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 17, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > I have tried many diet strategies in my life.  (Not all the kind meant for weight loss)
> ...



It's funny how people don't realize that if you eat like a cow, you'll look like a cow.


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## strollingbones (Jan 17, 2012)

i enjoy my raw milk thank you


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## Big Fitz (Jan 17, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> i enjoy my raw milk thank you


I used to have it... never liked the taste, but since Grandpa was a dairy farmer, that's what we got.


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## koshergrl (Jan 17, 2012)

I love raw milk, we had a couple of milk cows growing up.

Could never get used to goat's milk, though. We cooked with it, but we never drank it (we tried! And it didn't taste bad or anything, just wasn't the same).

We ended up using the goat milk for the animals (and sometimes cooking) and the cow's milk for us...and that worked out pretty well for everybody.


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## percysunshine (Jan 17, 2012)

I want to see High_Gravity and Big_Fitz get into an argument over weight gain issues.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 17, 2012)

masquerade said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > *Losing weight and getting into shape is very simple (not easy):* eat healthy AND exercise. It's surprising how little Americans know about simple basics: such as the difference between good carbs and bad carbs-so many people write all carbs off as bad, and they should be avoided at all costs. It just takes tons of dedicated-I used to obese and lost about 80 lbs (and gained quite a bit muscle mass), just by burning off more calories then I take in, and taking a multi-vitamin every day.
> ...



Fruits and veges are examples of carbs. Some nuts also have a significant amount of carbs. You did not "cut out the carbs".


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 17, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
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I eat a lot of carbs-but the overwhelming majority of carbs I intake are fruits and veges, oatmeal, and sometimes whole wheat pasta. Of course I consume a good amount of protein as well. But my point is consuming few carbs isn't good for you. "Good carbs" can provide you with tons of energy and are great for you (obviously provided to actually get off your ass and use the energy).


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## Big Fitz (Jan 18, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> I want to see High_Gravity and Big_Fitz get into an argument over weight gain issues.


I'm missing the punchline then.


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## Douger (Jan 18, 2012)

Americans aren't fat. murkins are.
These were Americans.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StFhvAIv3Js&feature=related]The History of the Woodstock Festival - YouTube[/ame]


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## Unkotare (Jan 18, 2012)

strollingbones said:


> i enjoy my raw milk thank you




I'm sure your farmer appreciates your producing it each day.


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## Zander (Jan 18, 2012)

Prescription for healthy body weight: Eat less food - walk more. Be mindful of what you are stuffing down your throat. Most people can lose 5-10 lbs in a month just by being aware of how much they eat and when they eat it. I recommend keeping a food journal for a week- if it goes in the mouth- it goes in the journal!  It's simple, but it ain't easy!! 

Prescription for failure at most anything - follow government recommendations and guidelines.


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## Big Fitz (Jan 18, 2012)

Zander said:


> Prescription for healthy body weight: Eat less food - walk more. Be mindful of what you are stuffing down your throat. Most people can lose 5-10 lbs in a month just by being aware of how much they eat and when they eat it. I recommend keeping a food journal for a week- if it goes in the mouth- it goes in the journal!  It's simple, but it ain't easy!!
> 
> Prescription for failure at most anything - follow government recommendations and guidelines.


cute. LOL


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## Douger (Jan 18, 2012)

One in three US adults is obese: study


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## Poli_Sigh (Jan 18, 2012)

Actually I don't because it's certainly not a wonder.  In fact, the answer is simple - some simply like to pig-out.  Personally I believe over-eating is a physical manifestation of a psychological imbalance not unlike alcohol or drug addiction.


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 18, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
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> > JamesInFlorida said:
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What percentage of your calories comes from sugar?

My calorie breakdown is less than 10% carbs, 50% protein, and the remainder in fats.

I have plenty of energy and I do it without spiking insulin levels constantly.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 18, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> I want to see High_Gravity and Big_Fitz get into an argument over weight gain issues.



Huh? why?


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## Katzndogz (Jan 18, 2012)

Far fewer Americans were obese the day before the standards were changed 15 years ago.   Millions of people went to bed normal weight and woke up obese.


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## Big Fitz (Jan 18, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
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> > Skull Pilot said:
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I've learned the hard way that the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (5-6 days low/no carbs, one day to cheat) works great for me but has 3 major drawbacks.

1. It's expensive.
2. The chemicals in processed meat hurt me it turns out
3. Favorite things like many fruits are out.

Other than that, I didn't crave sweets so much as the crunch of potato chips and celery or nuts just didn't cut it.  Pork Rinds were good but often too salty or full of bad chemicals.  Sigh... c'est la vie!


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## Skull Pilot (Jan 18, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
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I don't cycle my calories like that.  I try to eat uniformly every day and overall I'm better than 90% successful


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## JamesInFlorida (Jan 18, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
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> > Skull Pilot said:
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Carbs are probably around 40-50% depending on the day, Protein around 40% depending on the day, and the rest is fat. So it's not like I neglect protein. I find that carbs provide a great source of energy for exercising and when I play hockey (I eat them the day before a game-not on the actual day). My blood sugar levels have always been normal, and my insulin never spikes (good carbs rise it but don't "spike" it). Refined sugars, white grain absolutely spike blood sugar levels-but I stay away from them as much as possible. A normal day for me starts with a bowl of oatmeal/whole wheat cereal. Lunch is usually a combo of veges/fruit. Dinner I have a good portion of protein (like chicken). And throughout the day I do take a protein shake.

edit: I will admit though if I didn't workout everyday then the carbs would be a little too much.


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## Big Fitz (Jan 18, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
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wish I had your metabolism.


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## masquerade (Jan 19, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
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Yes.  You should.


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## masquerade (Jan 19, 2012)

JamesInFlorida said:


> masquerade said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
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This is true.  I haven't cut out all the carbs.  Just the bad ones.


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## masquerade (Jan 19, 2012)

I believe that any weight loss changes need to start in your head first.  One needs to decide all own their own that they are going to make changes in thier life in regards to their overall health.  If that commitment is made, the rest of the process flows freely and easily.  To rid one's mind of negative thoughts regarding 'diet', exercise, wieght loss and the way they view themselves is another step forward on the road to healthfullness.

A 'diet' to me is what I eat, or not eat.  I currently eat a healthy diet.  I am not *on a diet*.  I am not going to get to that magic number on the scale just to go back to my old unhealthy habits.  In fact, the scale matters little to me these days.  

I've spent the past 40+ years eating whatever I want.  In doing so I learned to dislike myself and my habits but never did much about it past a 'diet' I put myself on ... miserable the whole time.  But now, well now is different.  I no longer feel the need or desire to eat all those snacks and foods loaded with fats and carbs.  Been there, done that.  I have made a commitment to myself and my body that I am going to spend the second half of my Life as healthy as I possibly can.

I remember back to those nights when I'd sit in front of the television, or on the computer, munching on something out of a box or bag.  I'd go to bed and wake the next morning feeling like hell and that is when the self-abuse would start.  I'd spend the day beating myself up, telling myself I was a bad person who had no self-control.  Well I'm happy to report that those days are long gone, never to return again.  Even if I eat something hot mexican dip (homemade) with multigrain Tostitos Scoops (like I did during the Pats game last weekend) I accept what I did and refuse to battle it out inside my head.

Change the way you think about food and yourself and wonderful things will happen.


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