# Is this an Iranian thing, or an Islam thing?...



## mal (Aug 18, 2009)

The International Herald Tribune reported:

The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery, and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.

A judiciary spokesman, Alireza Jamshidi, told reporters on Tuesday that a death sentence by stoning had been carried out last week near the city of Takestan, west of Tehran, despite an order by the chief of the judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi, not to permit such executions.

"The verdict was final, and so it was carried out for the man but not for the woman," the ISNA news agency quoted Jamshidi as saying.

He said the 20 additional executions were for such things as "rape, insulting religious sanctities and laws, and homosexuality." Most executions in Iran are hangings, often in public and at the scenes of the alleged crimes.

The police arrested about 1,000 people in May during a so-called morality crackdown. Jamshidi said 15 more men were being tried on similar charges and could receive death sentences.

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Well?...



peace...


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## rdean (Aug 18, 2009)

Those are things the Right Wing conservatives want to do here.  They said the reason 9/11 happened was because God lifted his "veil of protection" because we allow the existence of gays and feminists.  Since gays and feminists are the "cause" of 9/11, what should happen to them for being the reason behind such a terrible thing?  Go ahead; think it through to the logical conclusion.

Now, take a look at Texas.  A "magical creationist" has been made head of the "Board of Education" and this upcoming school year, it will be mandatory in public schools to study the Bible.  This is no joke.  It's a court case waiting to happen.

Now, explain to me how the right, if they got their way, would be different than the government of Iran?  Mysticism in Public Schools in place of science.  Forced religious morality. Laws based on supernatural text.  What am I describing, the GOP Platform or the government of Iran?


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## mal (Aug 18, 2009)

rdean said:


> Those are things the Right Wing conservatives want to do here.



Document ANY US Government Official or Elected Person, or any Christian Leader outside of Fred Phelps and his Inbred Family Illustrating what you just said.

By the way, "God Hates Fags" is not the same as Executing Homosexuals.

Does Fred Advocate for that?...

If so, then he and his should go to Iran.



peace...


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## rdean (Aug 18, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> rdean said:
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> > Those are things the Right Wing conservatives want to do here.
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You mean besides Rick Santorum or Michele Bachman or people like that?  You don't see an "implied" threat in "you are going to hell" or "you have sex with dogs"?  Dehumanizing is the first step.  Ask Hitler.  When Fred Phelps waves his signs at the funerals of American soldiers killed overseas or Pat Robertson complains that gays are the "cause" of 9/11 and Katrina and the problem should be "solved" and Supreme Court Justice believes that being gay should be a "criminal offense" based on the Bible, what do you think they are talking about when they say "fix the problem"?  Buy gays one way tickets to Jamaica?  Get real.

Besides to judge people because of a made up deity from a Middle Eastern desert people based on a book written by people who didn't know to wash after wiping is insane.  It's absolutely crazy.  Could people possibly be any more credulous?  No wonder so many Republicans and even some Democrats believe the sun travels around the earth.


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## mal (Aug 18, 2009)

rdean said:


> tha malcontent said:
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So then you don't have an Example of American Christians calling for the Legal Execution of Homosexuals for Homosexuality...

In that, you have NO Analogy regarding Iran and the US, or Islam and Christianity...

Noted.

NEXT!



peace...


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## editec (Aug 18, 2009)

> The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery, and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.


 
It's an OLD TESTAMENT thing that the Mohammeds got from the Isralis.

Pretty sick, isn't it?


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## mal (Aug 18, 2009)

editec said:


> > The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery, and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.
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So the Israeli and American Governments are Executing Homosexuals for Homosexuality and Women for simply Accusations of Infidelity?...

Oh yeah, they aren't... That's an Exclusively Islamic thing in the Modern Day, ain't it.

You see, some of us have Evolved... Others remain Ignorant and Oppressed in Male Dominated Animalistic Cultures that find Modern Warring Technology mixing with 15th Century Third World Mentallity.

Thanks again for Excusing it by Attempting to Deflect for it.

You Suck on SO MANY levels, that it's Difficult to Know just where to Start.



peace...


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## rdean (Aug 18, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> rdean said:
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I said it's what Christians "want" to do.  Reminds me of an old lady I saw once on the news.  When Bush invaded Iraq, she said, "Yes but, I didn't think he would actually DO it".

When Republicans say, "We want to bring the laws more in line with the Bible", what do you think they are talking about?  "Some" of the Bible?  "Parts" of the Bible?  

No - ALL OF THE BIBLE.  What does the Bible say to do to gays?

What is it that is so hard to get?  Honestly, I'm, well, pardon the word, "mystified".

Remember, Judaism, Islam and Christianity were all invented by Abraham.  He didn't invent THREE religions, he invented only one.   All three are WAY more similar than different.  Just because we have laws to protect us from the Religious right, doesn't mean they will stop.  Because they won't.  What they have in Iran is what they want here.

"Jesus, protect us from your followers".


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## editec (Aug 18, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> editec said:
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> > > The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery, and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.
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## mal (Aug 18, 2009)

rdean said:


> I said it's what Christians "want" to do. ".



Liberals want to Fuck their own Dogs...

That's Easy...

Back up your Assertions or don't make them.



peace...


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## mal (Aug 18, 2009)

editec said:


> tha malcontent said:
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## xsited1 (Aug 18, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Is this an Iranian thing, or an Islam thing?...



They make a bundle on pay-per-view over there.


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## mal (Aug 19, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> tha malcontent said:
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> > Is this an Iranian thing, or an Islam thing?...
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I Hope so!...



peace...


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## rdean (Aug 19, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> rdean said:
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> > I said it's what Christians "want" to do. ".
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Those are things conservatives want to do here.  Don't you believe they want to do these things?  If not, why make the accusations.

You sure do have a potty mouth.


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## logical4u (Aug 19, 2009)

Evolution is a THEORY.  Creation is a historic THEORY.  
One requires you to have faith that something (undefined) happened and there was a big bang; after billions and billions of years of stuff floating in space, something happened (undefined) and life was made.  Then, life found a home on this planet (how, its undefined) and we all evolved out of slime (even though, there is no evidence of species to species evolution).
The other, requires that you have faith that an awesome intelligence used foresight and knowledge to plan the universe and life on this planet, the variety of lifeforms made individually, and in some cases evolving for specific areas or through selective breeding.
There is nothing about using a sword, machete or knife to threaten student to convert.  It is two theories presented side by side, allowing the student to choose.
In fact, that is what is truly great about Christianity: you, the individual must choose if you want to accept Yeshua as your savior.  There are persuasive arguements, but there is no one forcing you to join the religion.  The treatment of non-believers is the same treatment as for all humans, there should be no difference in the basic way a believer and non-believer is treated: your word to a non-believer is the same as your word to a believer (this is unlike islam and other religions).
Can you tell me how many videos you can find on the internet that show four Christians holding a bound man, while a fifth Christian saws his head off, while they all chant to G*d?
Can you count the number of Islamic acts of terror?
Yes, Virginia there is a difference between Christianity and Islam.


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## mal (Aug 19, 2009)

logical4u said:


> Evolution is a THEORY.  Creation is a historic THEORY.
> One requires you to have faith that something (undefined) happened and there was a big bang; after billions and billions of years of stuff floating in space, something happened (undefined) and life was made.  Then, life found a home on this planet (how, its undefined) and we all evolved out of slime (even though, there is no evidence of species to species evolution).
> The other, requires that you have faith that an awesome intelligence used foresight and knowledge to plan the universe and life on this planet, the variety of lifeforms made individually, and in some cases evolving for specific areas or through selective breeding.
> There is nothing about using a sword, machete or knife to threaten student to convert.  It is two theories presented side by side, allowing the student to choose.
> ...



Stop using Logic to Illustrate (2) Theories...

A Liberal's Head may Experience a "Big Bang" if you Continue! 



peace...


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## bodecea (Aug 20, 2009)

logical4u said:


> Evolution is a THEORY.  Creation is a historic THEORY.
> One requires you to have faith that something (undefined) happened and there was a big bang; after billions and billions of years of stuff floating in space, something happened (undefined) and life was made.  Then, life found a home on this planet (how, its undefined) and we all evolved out of slime (even though, there is no evidence of species to species evolution).
> The other, requires that you have faith that an awesome intelligence used foresight and knowledge to plan the universe and life on this planet, the variety of lifeforms made individually, and in some cases evolving for specific areas or through selective breeding.
> There is nothing about using a sword, machete or knife to threaten student to convert.  It is two theories presented side by side, allowing the student to choose.
> ...



Yes, but not much....only in age (thereby maturity).


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

It's an Islam thing.

They will also execute victims of homosexual rape.

Islam is the single worst thing that has happened to Iran.


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## mal (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> It's an Islam thing.
> 
> They will also execute victims of homosexual rape.
> 
> Islam is the single worst thing that has happened to Iran.



No they don't... Islam is Peace Loving and Tolerant...

Better than Modern Christianity!



peace...


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## Sunni Man (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> They will also execute victims of homosexual rape.


Evidence please

Thank you


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
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> > They will also execute victims of homosexual rape.
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it won't let me post the link to a youtube video because I haven't collected 15 points (?)

so sorry, but you'll have to go manually:

go to youtube, search "khalkhali The true face of the Islamic Republic of Iran"

go to about 4:30


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## mal (Aug 25, 2009)

Hopefully Sunni will return with a Report on that... 



peace...


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## Sunni Man (Aug 25, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> Hopefully Sunni will return with a Report on that...
> 
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> 
> peace...


 Sure I will


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## Sunni Man (Aug 25, 2009)

Here is something related to your post Half Loon

Skip ahead to 0.22 for my reaction to your post..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDbGqJ2KYk]YouTube - Kitten Surprise!! (how to break up a cat fight) THE ORIGINAL[/ame]


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

I suppose video of a rape victim being sentenced to execution for homosexuality is not proper evidence of the IRI executing homosexual rape victims in your world... in mine it is

I could also ask my dad, who was an officer in the Islamic republic to give you some of his personal anecdotes


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## Sunni Man (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> I suppose video of a rape victim being sentenced to execution for homosexuality is not proper evidence of the IRI executing homosexual rape victims in your world... in mine it is
> 
> I could also ask my dad, who was an officer in the Islamic republic to give you some of his personal anecdotes


We need to leave the country of Iran to the Iranians.

They have their OWN laws and culture.

If they want to make homosexuality illegal and execute criminals convicted of that crime.

That is fine with me


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## ABikerSailor (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> Sunni Man said:
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No problem dude..........I picked it up for you.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TenzDTZ0oOY]YouTube - Iran: A Revolution Betrayed | The True Face of The Islamic Republic[/ame]


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## Sunni Man (Aug 25, 2009)

So what's the problem?

Both men admitted that they broke the law and were guilty.

They were then sentenced by an Iranian court of law and executed as criminals.

Case closed.


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## Kalam (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> I suppose video of a rape victim being sentenced to execution for homosexuality is not proper evidence of the IRI executing homosexual rape victims in your world... in mine it is
> 
> I could also ask my dad, who was an officer in the Islamic republic to give you some of his personal anecdotes



The actions of the so-called Islamic Republic of Iran are hardly reflective of Qur'anic Islam.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
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> > I suppose video of a rape victim being sentenced to execution for homosexuality is not proper evidence of the IRI executing homosexual rape victims in your world... in mine it is
> ...



I have not come accross ONE single Iranian who believes in the death sentence for homosexuals.  NONE.  I'm 100% Iranian, have met thousands of Iranians both muslim or non-muslim, from all regions of Iran, from all levels of society.  Gay marriages happened in Iran during the reign of the Shah.

The story is very simple... people revolted against a corrupt dicatorship but Khomeini used the Iraq war to usurp the government to institute laws which the people clearly oppose.  When the people ask for the laws to be changed, well, they are beaten up and/or incarcerated.

That's not to mention the reality that even if 99% of people supported the execution of homosexuals (which they absolutely do not), it is still a violation of basic human rights


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Kalam said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
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> > I suppose video of a rape victim being sentenced to execution for homosexuality is not proper evidence of the IRI executing homosexual rape victims in your world... in mine it is
> ...



Fair enough, nonetheless they claim it does and use it as the normative power behind their actions... I'm against theocracy, not Islam


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


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thanks! silly rule, but I guess it protects against spam


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## Kalam (Aug 25, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery,


The proper Islamic punishment for adultery isn't stoning, it's flogging. Adultery should not be treated as a capital offense. 

_The adulteress and the adulterer, flog each of them (with) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you from obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement._ - 24:2​


tha malcontent said:


> and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.
> 
> A judiciary spokesman, Alireza Jamshidi, told reporters on Tuesday that a death sentence by stoning had been carried out last week near the city of Takestan, west of Tehran, despite an order by the chief of the judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi, not to permit such executions.


Stoning as a punishment has no Qur'anic basis. It's only referred to in the Qur'an as a form of oppression that was used to threaten Muslims and prophets. 



tha malcontent said:


> "The verdict was final, and so it was carried out for the man but not for the woman," the ISNA news agency quoted Jamshidi as saying.


Both the adulteress and the adulterer should be flogged 100 times. 



tha malcontent said:


> He said the 20 additional executions were for such things as "rape, insulting religious sanctities and laws, and homosexuality." Most executions in Iran are hangings, often in public and at the scenes of the alleged crimes.


Death is a positively inappropriate punishment for "insulting religious sanctities and laws" as well as homosexuality. 



tha malcontent said:


> Well?...


Well... you've posted another failure of a thread, malcuntent.


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## Sunni Man (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> Sunni Man said:
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The Shah was a puppet dictator who was forced over the Iranian people by Western governments.

He was both brutal and immoral and hated by the people.


True, the execution of homosexuals is cultural and not Islamic.

That being said: It is up to the people in Iran to make or disguard laws.

Right now homosexuality is illegal in Iran and the people who engage in it are breaking the law and are criminals.


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## Kalam (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


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Islam is being used wrongfully as a political tool by a multitude of states and organizations. Iran, unfortunately, is not alone.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


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That may be so, but under the shah the people had FAR more freedom.  Nor was he a total puppet, as he refused to sign an oil deal with the British in 1977 and consistently refused to cooperate with the Americans before being deposed.  Which is why so much optimism took place during the revolution by Carter and the Brits. 

Again, the people do not want homosexuality criminalized... The people do NOT want an islamic government.  It is true that legally, a sovereign power can set its own laws.  However that does not make those laws morally acceptable.  

Furthermore, the criminalization of homosexuality is not a cultural aspect of Iranian society. If it had been, its legalization would have been opposed to under the Shah, which it was not.  The opposition to the Shah was merely rooted on economic factors as well as a fear of colonialism by the West.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Kalam said:


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This is very true... Nor was Christianity properly represented by the many Christian theocracies.  This is because theocracies are dictatorships, and dictatorships are willing to do anything to frighten people into submission.


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## Sunni Man (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


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Are you gay?

Because you sure seem to champion the homo agenda.


The opposition to the Shah was NOT just economic as you say.

They hated him and his immoral and brutal policys. Remember the SAVAK ?


I remember in the 1970's when ever I drove by the University of Texas in Austin.

There were hundreds of Iranian students marching and protesting everyday against the Shah and calling for his overthrow.

I knew a couple of the Iranian students and they HATED the Shah and wanted him dead. 

When he fled Iran. Millions of Iranians poured into the streets and cheered for days.

So don't tell me what a great guy he was.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


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I'm not gay, but my roomate and best friend is... though it wouldn't matter to me, or my parents, if I were.  I champion the homo cause and I'm very proud of that... I also champion the cause for women's rights and rape victims.  And no, I'm not a woman or a rape victim either.

The Shah was not supported because of his ties with the US and foreign powers during a time when Western intervention in Indochina and Latin America had darkened its image... Savak certainly existed, and it certainly committed attrocities. Mine was never a pro-shah commentary.  I don't know where you got that. But you simply tried to change the subject by bringing up his ruthlessness, and I had to remind you that he was not a fraction of the dictator the Mullahs were.

It was not at all immorality that led to his downfall, but his elimination of civil society during a time when he had consolidated power through high oil prices. When the revolution took hold, and it was inevitable (the Iranian people had fought for democracy for over 7 decades at the time and had gained it once in 1951), there was NO civil society.  Which meant there was no organized opposition to the Shah.  The only organized institution in Iran outside of the government was the Clergy, and at its head was Khomeini.

The revolution was undertaken by a collection of Westernizers, communists, anarchists, etc., but the only organization that could lead them was the religious establishment.  The Baazaris put their support behind Khomeini and that was it.  

The vast majority of Iranians are secular, but certainly a noticealbe chunk (such as those in South Tehran) are genuinely fundamentalist.  But only a minority.  Iran is not a religious country, and studies have shown that out of all middle eastern countries (Turkey excluded) they are the only ones that do not support a theocratic government. 

What Iranians are, however, is deeply nationalistic and ethnocentric.  They resented the Shah since the coup of 1953 and were happy to see him go.  But had they known what was going to happen, they would've thought again.

I live in a community of 30,000 Iranian-Canadians many of whom supported the revolution.  Some of them have connections with Hezbollah... yet there is not a single mosque in this city and it's rare to see anyone covering their hair in public.


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## mal (Aug 25, 2009)

Kalam said:


> tha malcontent said:
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> > The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery,
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All of that's Fine, Assuming you are Correct for the Sake of Argument, but Islamic Countries, with Islamic Laws, are doing EXACTLY what I have Illustrated...

I don't have to Debate the Quran to Know what Islamic Countries are doing in Practice.

Try again.



peace...


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## Kalam (Aug 25, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> All of that's Fine, Assuming you are Correct for the Sake of Argument, but Islamic Countries, with Islamic Laws, are doing EXACTLY what I have Illustrated...
> 
> I don't have to Debate the Quran to Know what Islamic Countries are doing in Practice.
> 
> ...



As I've said, you cannot extrapolate accurate information about the Islamic religion solely from the actions of those who claim to adhere to it. Attempting to do so is illogical.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

it should be noted that the Islamic Republic is not led by secular bureaucrats who simply talk about religion...

Khomeini was a well-known quranic scholar, and many of the elite in the regime are also very high ranking scholars of Islam... for them to implements these laws arbitrarily does not seem logical


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## Kalam (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> it should be noted that the Islamic Republic is not led by secular bureaucrats who simply talk about religion...
> 
> Khomeini was a well-known quranic scholar, and many of the elite in the regime are also very high ranking scholars of Islam... for them to implements these laws arbitrarily does not seem logical



They're adherents of Twelver Shi'ism. While a number of my friends are Twelvers and I respect them and their beliefs, the ideology is fundamentally flawed. For one thing, it's based on the assumption that Muhammad (&#65018, Fatima (may Allah be pleased with her), and the 12 Imams are completely immune to error. Clearly, the assumption of infallibility should not be made by any upright Muslim except in the case of Muhammad's recitation, the Qur'an. Therefore, a number of laws, injunctions, and theological doctrines of Twelver Shi'ism are rooted wholly in tradition or past rulings and have absolutely no Qur'anic basis. This is bid'ah. Twelvers such as those in Iran's ruling regime also rely on the supposedly infallible Qur'anic interpretations put forth by imams rather than their own logic. 

Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that all of Iran's leaders are sincere in their religious beliefs. Power corrupts, and I have every reason to think that many of them are interested only in benefiting themselves and keeping the current, illegitimate regime in power.


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## mal (Aug 25, 2009)

Kalam said:


> tha malcontent said:
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> > All of that's Fine, Assuming you are Correct for the Sake of Argument, but Islamic Countries, with Islamic Laws, are doing EXACTLY what I have Illustrated...
> ...



I Certainly can... In Practice, in Law and in the Modern Day, Islam is a Barbaric, Backwards, Fucked up, Shithole of a Religion...

Those who aren't Taking Part in the Animalistic Behavior are either Applauding, Excusing it, or Running Static for it...

Which are you?...



peace...


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Kalam said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
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> > it should be noted that the Islamic Republic is not led by secular bureaucrats who simply talk about religion...
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ok, I see your point... I also agree that many of the mulllahs are enriching themselves, and many mullahs are opposed to the government

I have a fundamental opposition to Islam, but I could very well live with it if what you're saying is the way it was interpreted


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## Kalam (Aug 25, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> I Certainly can...


If you don't mind your position being illogical.


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## Kalam (Aug 25, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> ok, I see your point... I also agree that many of the mulllahs are enriching themselves, and many mullahs are opposed to the government
> 
> I have a fundamental opposition to Islam, but I could very well live with it if what you're saying is the way it was interpreted



It will be, in sha' Allah. 

One question, though:


The_Halfmoon said:


> I'm against theocracy, not Islam





The_Halfmoon said:


> I have a fundamental opposition to Islam



Which is it?


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 25, 2009)

Kalam said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
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sorry, I should clarify:

I do not tolerate theocracy... if 99% of the people want a theocracy in my country, screw them... no theocracy, now way, no how.  I will not accept it.

Islam I have a opposition to, and would never practice it (well I have considered it when younger, but not any more) and I would not marry a muslim woman (I have had the chance, and the religion was the issue).   But i'm not going to forcefully convert or bomb muslims for the sake of ending the religion.  If hey leave me alone with my creed (i.e. do not try to kill me because my mother was muslim and I am not) then good, I will not trample on the beliefs of consenting adults.

Sharia law, however, is in my opinion part of theocracy... and you can understand how I would be opposed to the lack of separation between religion and state inherent in Islam


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## Kalam (Aug 26, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> I do not tolerate theocracy... if 99% of the people want a theocracy in my country, screw them... no theocracy, now way, no how.  I will not accept it.


Doesn't that suggest aversion towards self-determination on your part? If such a high percentage of my countrymen were committed to a system of government that I disliked, I'd probably go somewhere else and let them do as they wished.  



The_Halfmoon said:


> Islam I have a opposition to, and would never practice it (well I have considered it when younger, but not any more)


Every knowledgeable person is bound to feel some sort of attraction towards Islam at some point in their life. It's the ideal system for mankind. 



The_Halfmoon said:


> and I would not marry a muslim woman (I have had the chance, and the religion was the issue).


That doesn't surprise me. Muslim women tend not to marry outside of the religion. 



The_Halfmoon said:


> But i'm not going to forcefully convert or bomb muslims for the sake of ending the religion.  If hey leave me alone with my creed (i.e. do not try to kill me because my mother was muslim and I am not) then good, I will not trample on the beliefs of consenting adults.


Rest assured, I have no interest in killing you...



The_Halfmoon said:


> Sharia law, however, is in my opinion part of theocracy... and you can understand how I would be opposed to the lack of separation between religion and state inherent in Islam


I don't think that non-believers would take issue with living in a truly Islamic society, so long as they weren't interested in acting hostilely towards Muslims.


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## Polk (Aug 26, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> The International Herald Tribune reported:
> 
> The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery, and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.
> 
> ...



It's a backwards Third World thing.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 26, 2009)

Kalam said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
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> > I do not tolerate theocracy... if 99% of the people want a theocracy in my country, screw them... no theocracy, now way, no how.  I will not accept it.
> ...



well, to a degree that's not a problem to me... but then ones has to agree that government's role, ANY government's role is to protect its citizens against the beliefs of others

Theocracies will tend to criminalize most things that are criminal in any other country (murder, theft, etc.) but will also criminalize moral acts also.  In that sense, people don't have a right to vote away the rights of others to commit acts which are not inherently violent or dangerous.

Also, if that 1% that votes against theocracy is of another religion (let's say Baha'i which is not accepted by the three major abrahamic religions), they would not be tolerated.  This is not an acceptable situation, even if 99% of people agreed to institute theocracy.

Mind you, I'm not saying NON-theoracies are perfect either... I would like to see drugs decriminalized and treated as a medical problem in North America, but still many relatively harmless people are put into crowded jails for selling stinky plants to others


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 26, 2009)

Polk said:


> tha malcontent said:
> 
> 
> > The International Herald Tribune reported:
> ...



I would recommend visiting Iran... it's hardly Afghanistan


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## Polk (Aug 26, 2009)

The_Halfmoon said:


> Polk said:
> 
> 
> > tha malcontent said:
> ...



It's not Afghanistan, but it's also not the United States, France, or Japan.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 26, 2009)

Polk said:


> The_Halfmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Polk said:
> ...



it's very much equivalent to China, Turkey or Southern Italy

as in there is absolutely a backwards attitude in the deep countryside and amongst the very destitute classes... but amongst the urban centers (including urban centers in the provinces distant from the capital) it is really not that different from France or Spain.


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## mystic (Aug 26, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


> I Certainly can... In Practice, in Law and in the Modern Day, Islam is a Barbaric, Backwards, Fucked up, Shithole of a Religion...



I guess you've never read the Qur'an. Nor studied Islam.


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## mystic (Aug 26, 2009)

And by the way....I think we should leave Iranian laws to the Iranians...............the ones who are still living in Iran. 

In answer to the original question: It's an Iranian thing, not an Islam thing. Is it a great law? No. Are there plenty of countries with worse laws? Yes.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 26, 2009)

mystic said:


> And by the way....I think we should leave Iranian laws to the Iranians...............the ones who are still living in Iran.
> 
> In answer to the original question: It's an Iranian thing, not an Islam thing. Is it a great law? No. Are there plenty of countries with worse laws? Yes.



although I agree that outside interference is not the solution, seriously... it's not a democracy... the iranians are hardly making their laws


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## mystic (Aug 26, 2009)

I know and really, although I might make light...I understand your feeling. I think of it this way, as far as countries go, Iran is not that bad. Most countries have repression. Some are even very good at hiding it.
I think we will see things change eventually once again. I've noticed Iranians don't seem to be willing to be passive victims.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 26, 2009)

well, as long as you see my point i'm happy to agree to disagree on the Iranian issue... my worry is that what we've seen as of late has in fact been a severe right wing shift.  Not a religously right wing shift, but a military coup designed to rob the oil wealth of the nation. In that sense, I worry that the repression will get far more violent.


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## ABikerSailor (Aug 26, 2009)

Hey Kalam, have you ever actually been to the Middle East?  I have.  Been to the UAE, as well as Jiddah Saudi Arabia.

You realize that in addition to the normal uniformed police, they have people running around in black robes constantly looking for a religious violation?  They (the religious police in the black robes), have the right to detain and arrest ANYONE for a perceived slight against IsLAME.

Incidentally, some of those people are executed on Fridays in the town square on top of a 20-30 ft high pile of sand for those very same religious violations.

Might wanna actually go over there and see it sometime.  If you DO make it to Mecca, chances are, with the way you currently speak of IsLAME, you're gonna find out that you don't want to follow it any more.

Incidentally, I've NEVER wanted to be MusLAME.  Ever since the mid 70's when the radicals took over?  I've known it was a fucked theology.

But.......go ahead and believe the bullshit if it works for you.


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## The_Halfmoon (Aug 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey Kalam, have you ever actually been to the Middle East?  I have.  Been to the UAE, as well as Jiddah Saudi Arabia.
> 
> You realize that in addition to the normal uniformed police, they have people running around in black robes constantly looking for a religious violation?  They (the religious police in the black robes), have the right to detain and arrest ANYONE for a perceived slight against IsLAME.
> 
> ...



although I dont' disagree with what you're saying (I've never been to Saudi Arabia but believe what you're saying).  But his argument was that Quranic Islam is different from what is practiced.  But I do hear Saudi Arabia is freaking crazy about Sharia law.


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## Kalam (Aug 26, 2009)

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey Kalam, have you ever actually been to the Middle East?  I have.  Been to the UAE, as well as Jiddah Saudi Arabia.
> 
> You realize that in addition to the normal uniformed police, they have people running around in black robes constantly looking for a religious violation?  They (the religious police in the black robes), have the right to detain and arrest ANYONE for a perceived slight against IsLAME.
> 
> ...


Please explain to me what any of this has to do with Qur'anic Islam.


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