# Attempted coup d' etat underway in Venezuela.



## the other mike

Here we go again.
*https://summit.news/2019/04/30/shock-video-shows-government-vehicle-mowing-down-venezuelan-protesters/*

*US-backed Guaido calls for Venezuela military uprising in VIDEO of him surrounded by soldiers*

*‘Traitor troops’ stage coup attempt in Venezuela – VP*


The leader of Venezuela's opposition, Juan Guaido, declared he was "beginning the final phase of Operation Freedom" after a dawn address in which he was flanked by men in military fatigues and armored vehicles in the capital Caracas. Venezuela's Information Minister Jorge Rodríguez called Guaido's action a "coup" on Twitter, adding that the government is "deactivating a small number of traitorous military personnel."
**Same story all around the echo chamber.


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## Pete7469

Good,

Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!


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## the other mike

Pete7469 said:


> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!


There's nothing good about this for anyone .
It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.


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## beautress

Angelo said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
Click to expand...

I've talked to a few Venezuelans online. They hated the Maduro underhanded treatment of citizens and say he is like a criminal in charge. They love their homeland, but they can't go back home as of several weeks ago. If he is removed,maybe things will get better for the people of Venezuela. Before Hugo Chavez, they were among the most trusted of our allies. Bless the people of Venezuela, whatever happens.


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## the other mike




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## Oddball

The coup is Maduro ignoring the vote that threw him out of office.


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## Litwin

will *putler *occupy Venezuela ,* like he occupied 55% of "Syria"* ?  what  *Trump *is gonna do?





Venezuela challenger accused of coup bid


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## the other mike




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## Bleipriester

People are fed up with Guaido thugs.


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## bodecea

Pete7469 said:


> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!


A disturbing post.


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## depotoo

No.  But Madura is guilty of running people down.


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## georgephillip

Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies

"A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.

"The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.

"It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."




*US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.

The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*


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## Litwin

depotoo said:


> No.  But Madura is guilty of running people down.


i do agree with Brazil 

*Brazil's president: I support Guaido and the "freedom of Venezuelans"*

Live: Attempted coup underway in Venezuela - CNN

Brazil's far-right president, Jair Bolsonaro, tweeted his support for Guaido and "the freedom of Venezuelans."
"Brazil sympathizes with the suffering Venezuelan people enslaved by a dictator supported by the PT, PSOL and ideologically aligned. We support the freedom of this sister nation to finally live a true democracy," Bolsonaro tweeted.


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## JWBooth

Let’s see, he’s running around calling himself presidente without ever being on the ballot, he publicly calls on the army to revolt, sounds like his actions qualify as a coup.


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## basquebromance

"I am monitoring the situation in Venezuela very closely. The United States stands with the People of Venezuela and their Freedom!" - President Trump just now


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## the other mike

bodecea said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> A disturbing post.
Click to expand...

Our society has generally become jaded and detached from the realities of war and suffering, as long as it's happening on television or somewhere else. 9/11 was supposed to be our wake-up call, but it was far from it.


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## georgephillip

*History rhymes or repeats in Venezuela.

Who will get rich(er) from that, I wonder?*




Canada vs. Venezuela: Have the Koch Brothers Captured Canada’s Left?

"Later, during the Dutch-Venezuelan crisis of 1908, the US Navy helped Venezuelan Vice President Juan Vicente Gómez seize power in a coup. 

"Gómez, known as 'The Catfish,' would rule the country either directly or through puppet presidents, until his death in 1935. 

"His regime was one of inconceivably medieval brutality. 

"His enforcers were fond of shackling political prisoners in _grillos_, leg irons that rendered many victims permanently disabled — and those were the 'lucky' ones. 

"The unlucky ones were hanged to death by meathooks through their throats or testicles. 

"Gómez was fantastically corrupt. 

"He was believed to be worth a staggering $200 million, or more than $3.6 billion today, at the time of his death." 

The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela


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## Rambunctious

We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....


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## Sunni Man

I have no doubt the CIA and other clandestine agencies are behind the coup taking place in Venezuela.   ...


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## basquebromance

"Venezuela's socialist government is running over its citizens with armored military vehicles and socialists Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, and Bernie Sanders are all completely silent. All three of them have refused to denounce brutal socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro" - John Bolton


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## Leo123

Hey, we have a secret coup 'army' we could send down there....Hillary, Comey, Mueller and all his 'investigators', and all the MSM.   LOL


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## Leo123

bodecea said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> A disturbing post.
Click to expand...


Yeah and your cartoon (that you display every time you post) of Trump killing someone is NOT 'disturbing?'   See how hatred twists one's mind?


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## basquebromance

Disciples! Freedom for the people of Venezuela from tyranny and dictatorship. 

Libertad para el pueblo de Venezuela de la tiranía y la dictadura.


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## basquebromance

CNN has been taken off the air in Venezuela by the Maduro regime

NOW Trump likes Maduro!


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## Pete7469

Leo123 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> A disturbing post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah and your cartoon (that you display every time you post) of Trump killing someone is NOT 'disturbing?'   See how hatred twists one's mind?
Click to expand...


That's why I ignore that sniveling drone. It's just another mentally disturbed bet wetting parrot, perpetually triggered by everything it's programmed to hate. You're also correct for pointing out the asinine cartoon it keeps in it's signature. That's how delusional and psychologically fucked up it is.


.


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## basquebromance

Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.


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## Dick Foster

Angelo said:


> Here we go again.
> *https://summit.news/2019/04/30/shock-video-shows-government-vehicle-mowing-down-venezuelan-protesters/*
> 
> *US-backed Guaido calls for Venezuela military uprising in VIDEO of him surrounded by soldiers*
> 
> *‘Traitor troops’ stage coup attempt in Venezuela – VP*
> 
> 
> The leader of Venezuela's opposition, Juan Guaido, declared he was "beginning the final phase of Operation Freedom" after a dawn address in which he was flanked by men in military fatigues and armored vehicles in the capital Caracas. Venezuela's Information Minister Jorge Rodríguez called Guaido's action a "coup" on Twitter, adding that the government is "deactivating a small number of traitorous military personnel."
> **Same story all around the echo chamber.



Ain't socalism neat when it can take the most prosperous and richest nation in the region in terms of resources and reduce it to this kinda shit. When are people ever gonna wake up and realize that socalism never has and never will work. Not ever, no place, no where and no how.


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## Silent Patriot

The thing about socialism is that you can vote your way into it, but eventually you always have to shoot your way out of it.      John Hayward


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## georgephillip

basquebromance said:


> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.


Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?


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## basquebromance

georgephillip said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
Click to expand...

on TV


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## BuckToothMoron

Angelo said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> A disturbing post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our society has generally become jaded and detached from the realities of war and suffering, as long as it's happening on television or somewhere else. 9/11 was supposed to be our wake-up call, but it was far from it.
Click to expand...


I disagree...partially. 9/11 was a wake up call, but we have begun to dose off.


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## MisterBeale

Oddball said:


> The coup is Maduro ignoring the vote that threw him out of office.











*International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU*
International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU

International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU

Observing Venezuela’s Election and the Myths Around It

Anthony Witherspoon Mayor of the City of Magnolia Mississippi

Profesor Francico Dominguez, talking about the past presidential elections in Venezuela.


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## basquebromance

Trump again shows how easily he’s manipulated by dictators


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## BuckToothMoron

Leo123 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> A disturbing post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah and your cartoon (that you display every time you post) of Trump killing someone is NOT 'disturbing?'   See how hatred twists one's mind?
Click to expand...


Nice retort. That one had to leave a mark.


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## BuckToothMoron

MisterBeale said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> The coup is Maduro ignoring the vote that threw him out of office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU*
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> Observing Venezuela’s Election and the Myths Around It
> 
> Anthony Witherspoon Mayor of the City of Magnolia Mississippi
> 
> Profesor Francico Dominguez, talking about the past presidential elections in Venezuela.
Click to expand...


Please tell me the section of the constitution which refers to democracy in this country.


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## MisterBeale

BuckToothMoron said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> The coup is Maduro ignoring the vote that threw him out of office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU*
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> Observing Venezuela’s Election and the Myths Around It
> 
> Anthony Witherspoon Mayor of the City of Magnolia Mississippi
> 
> Profesor Francico Dominguez, talking about the past presidential elections in Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please tell me the section of the constitution which refers to democracy in this country.
Click to expand...

Why?  I'm not sure how that is topical.


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## Dick Foster

MisterBeale said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> The coup is Maduro ignoring the vote that threw him out of office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU*
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> Observing Venezuela’s Election and the Myths Around It
> 
> Anthony Witherspoon Mayor of the City of Magnolia Mississippi
> 
> Profesor Francico Dominguez, talking about the past presidential elections in Venezuela.
Click to expand...


You complete dumbass, you don't even know what kind of government you're living with. The United States of America is not a friggin democracy and never has been. It's a Representative Republic, shitforbrains.


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## MisterBeale

Dick Foster said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> The coup is Maduro ignoring the vote that threw him out of office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU*
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> International Observers to Venezuela’s Election Pen Letter to the EU
> 
> Observing Venezuela’s Election and the Myths Around It
> 
> Anthony Witherspoon Mayor of the City of Magnolia Mississippi
> 
> Profesor Francico Dominguez, talking about the past presidential elections in Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You complete dumbass, you don't even know what kind of government you're living with. The United States of America is not a friggin democracy and never has been. It's a Representative Republic, shitforbrains.
Click to expand...

Not true.  I am completely aware of that.  Why would you make such an accusation?  

What does that have to do with this topic, and why are you getting so angry?


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## RandomPoster

Maduro is sending in the troops as protests are growing.  There is at least one video of an armored military vehicle plowing through a crowd of desperate protestors.  There are rumors that more and more of the military is joining the rebels.


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## RandomPoster

Sunni Man said:


> I have no doubt the CIA and other clandestine agencies are behind the coup taking place in Venezuela.   ...



  I have no doubt that the people of Venezuela are sick and tired of starving to death and eating out of garbage cans in their socialist paradise.


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## basquebromance

Wild-Eyed Marco Rubio Embarks In Rowboat To Help Venezuela Coup Effort


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## satrebil

Less than 10 years ago Venezuela outlawed private gun ownership. Today civilians are getting mowed down by APC's. 

Funny how that works. 

What say you leftists?


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## basquebromance

"Murderous thug, Maduro, will go to any lengths to stay in power, including killing even more Venezuelans. They’re showing such courage, literally risking life and limb for freedom. It is a poignant reminder to not ever take democracy for granted. Vamos, Venezuela. Vamos!" - Rubio


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## basquebromance

MSNBC accidentally makes the perfect case for the Second Amendment. “In Venezuela, gun ownership is not something that's open to everybody. So if the military have the guns, they have the power.


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## basquebromance

Dios mío. La brutalidad del regimen de Maduro no tiene límite. El arquitecto de esta atrocidad es el régimen cruel de Castro. Piensan que pueden seguir con esta violencia contra en pueblo noble de Venezuela pero ya todos saben que los días de la tiranía están contados.

The architect of this atrocity is the cruel regime of Castro.


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## the other mike

MisterBeale said:


> Not true.  I am completely aware of that.  Why would you make such an accusation?
> 
> What does that have to do with this topic, and why are you getting so angry?


Sounds like he might need a sit down with Dr Phil.


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## Preacher

RandomPoster said:


> Maduro is sending in the troops as protests are growing.  There is at least one video of an armored military vehicle plowing through a crowd of desperate protestors.  There are rumors that more and more of the military is joining the rebels.


You mean CIA puppet Guaido and his band of CIA trained mercenaries are trying to overthrow the legitimately elected president of Venezuela. Maduro is an idiot but the Venezuelan's elected the fucking idiot so let them deal with it. I am beyond fucking tired of watching the US think it has the right to overthrow ANY leader it wants.I hope Maduro crushes this shit and executes anyone involved.


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## Timmy

This never happens in non socialist countries!


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## Billy_Kinetta

Timmy said:


> This never happens in non socialist countries!



Russia, 1917.  Wasn't THAT a boon to the world.


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## the other mike

BuckToothMoron said:


> Please tell me the section of the constitution which refers to democracy in this country.



Good point. We just like to 'create democracies' in other countries.


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## MisterBeale

Angelo said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.  I am completely aware of that.  Why would you make such an accusation?
> 
> What does that have to do with this topic, and why are you getting so angry?
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like he might need a sit down with Dr Phil.
Click to expand...

Folks don't like to be confronted with the truth.


One partisan side hates the truth about the Muellar report, so they want to see congress haul a bunch of folks in for questioning and find out about redactions.  Other can't stand to hear the truth about Venezuelan elections, so they attack you when you bring it to them. 

Of course we know that the U.S. is a representative republic and the absolute number of votes here makes no difference to the total outcome, that isn't the point.  THE POINT is that there were hundreds of international observers that confirmed the integrity of the election and that Venezuela has one of the best systems in the Western Hemisphere. 

Meh. . . . distract from it because it doesn't serve the interests of the corporate war making global police state. 



I've learned, whatever shit the CFR corporate media is pushing on me?  It is generally bullshit.  All of those monopolies are integrated in someway, with their leaders part of the *Interlocking directorate* that controls the entire establishment.  Can't trust anything that controls the propaganda or their agenda.


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## Slyhunter

Send in the Drones and put a bullet in his head.


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## the other mike

Slyhunter said:


> Send in the Drones and put a bullet in his head.


That's what we were_ supposed _to do in 2002 in Afghanistan when Bush let his CIA-asset OBL escape to Pakistan , but we know the real reason for going wasn't 9/11--that was their false flag excuse.


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## MisterBeale

It's amazing how folks on the left and the right want to go in there and get blood.

Ahhhh the power of TEE VEE propaganda.


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## the other mike

MisterBeale said:


> It's amazing how folks on the left and the right want to go in there and get blood.
> 
> Ahhhh the power of TEE VEE propaganda.


Hitler and Stalin would be giggling with extreme admiration.


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## MisterBeale

*4 Predictions From Orwell’s '1984' That Are Coming True Today*
4 Predictions From Orwell’s '1984' That Are Coming True Today

* 2. Perpetual War *
In _1984,_ the Party embraces a policy of continual war so as to eat up any economic surplus and keep people poor and under control. The U.S. government isn't accomplishing anything like that, but we do seem to have a habit of moving seamlessly from one military conflict to another. Despite having left Iraq in just the past year or so and being slated to leave Afghanistan soon, we're getting more deeply involved in places like Libya and Syria. And what's going on in Syria — and spilling into Lebanon, Turkey, and Iraq as well — is shaping up to be the latest episode of the Sunni-Shiite schism, a rift that has endured for over a thousand years. Not sure we can settle that one anytime soon. Meanwhile, Iran and North Korea might have atomic weapons. Yay!


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## JWBooth

Sunni Man said:


> I have no doubt the CIA and other clandestine agencies are behind the coup taking place in Venezuela.   ...


With their usual level of planning, there will be mass casualties and little effect.


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## P F Tinmore

The US has been trying to put the oligarchs back in power since Chavez was elected.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

The best thing we can do for Venezuela is to let those fuckers sleep in the shit bed they made.  We should have no part of it.

Let that be a lesson to the rest of the world about voting for commies.

.


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## depotoo

basquebromance said:


> "Venezuela's socialist government is running over its citizens with armored military vehicles and socialists Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, and Bernie Sanders are all completely silent. All three of them have refused to denounce brutal socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro" - John Bolton


There was video of it.  It was awful.


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## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*



Maduro eat a bullet yet?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth

JWBooth said:


> With their usual level of planning, there will be mass casualties and little effect.


Well, except the effect of lining the pockets of those involved.

.


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## Desperado

If President Trump  is looking to serve a second term than he will will not have any US involvement in Venezuela... if we get involved there my vote will go to Tulsi Gabbard


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## Likkmee

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The best thing we can do for Venezuela is to let those fuckers sleep in the shit bed they made.  We should have no part of it.
> 
> Let that be a lesson to the rest of the world about voting for commies.
> 
> .


Ship them to San Fran. Shit is more abundant.


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## RandomPoster

Odium said:


> RandomPoster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro is sending in the troops as protests are growing.  There is at least one video of an armored military vehicle plowing through a crowd of desperate protestors.  There are rumors that more and more of the military is joining the rebels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean CIA puppet Guaido and his band of CIA trained mercenaries are trying to overthrow the legitimately elected president of Venezuela. Maduro is an idiot but the Venezuelan's elected the fucking idiot so let them deal with it. I am beyond fucking tired of watching the US think it has the right to overthrow ANY leader it wants.I hope Maduro crushes this shit and executes anyone involved.
Click to expand...


  If we simply gave socialism a little more time to work in Venezuela.  Give it a chance guys.  It'll eventually turn into "real socialism".


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## longknife

Word has it that Maduro is boarding a plane for Cuba. He's already shipped out endless millions in stolen gold.


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## RandomPoster

Military vehicle plows into protesters in Venezuela


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## Moonglow

Warning, graphic video: Government vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela
Fucking awesome!


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## JWBooth

Just another instance of US meddling in other’s affairs, generating death and destruction. Maduro has a huge following that will not put up with this. The Venezuela military is armed with AKs, so when you see those Colt variants, think humanitarian aid.


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## JWBooth

Toddsterpatriot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
Click to expand...

Guaido first.


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## georgephillip

Toddsterpatriot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
Click to expand...




Toddsterpatriot said:


> Maduro eat a bullet yet?


Has anyone seen him today?
You better check with Ollie and Elliot!


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## beautress

Bleipriester said:


> People are fed up with Guaido thugs.


Well, you know King Charles III and his court were also fed up with General Washington's barefoot thugs.


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## beautress

MisterBeale said:


> *4 Predictions From Orwell’s '1984' That Are Coming True Today*
> 4 Predictions From Orwell’s '1984' That Are Coming True Today
> 
> * 2. Perpetual War *
> In _1984,_ the Party embraces a policy of continual war so as to eat up any economic surplus and keep people poor and under control. The U.S. government isn't accomplishing anything like that, but we do seem to have a habit of moving seamlessly from one military conflict to another. Despite having left Iraq in just the past year or so and being slated to leave Afghanistan soon, we're getting more deeply involved in places like Libya and Syria. And what's going on in Syria — and spilling into Lebanon, Turkey, and Iraq as well — is shaping up to be the latest episode of the Sunni-Shiite schism, a rift that has endured for over a thousand years. Not sure we can settle that one anytime soon. Meanwhile, Iran and North Korea might have atomic weapons. Yay!


"Yay!"?

But Mister Beale, if Iran blows up Israel, I won't be able to get plastic storage containers for my quilt stuff. That'd be catastrophic. 
And if North Korea disentigrated South Korea, auto parts for my 15-year-old truck would have prices through the roof. I can't walk 6 miles to town for groceries. Yikes!


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## Leo123

MisterBeale said:


> *4 Predictions From Orwell’s '1984' That Are Coming True Today*
> 4 Predictions From Orwell’s '1984' That Are Coming True Today
> 
> * 2. Perpetual War *
> In _1984,_ the Party embraces a policy of continual war so as to eat up any economic surplus and keep people poor and under control. The U.S. government isn't accomplishing anything like that, but we do seem to have a habit of moving seamlessly from one military conflict to another. Despite having left Iraq in just the past year or so and being slated to leave Afghanistan soon, we're getting more deeply involved in places like Libya and Syria. And what's going on in Syria — and spilling into Lebanon, Turkey, and Iraq as well — is shaping up to be the latest episode of the Sunni-Shiite schism, a rift that has endured for over a thousand years. Not sure we can settle that one anytime soon. Meanwhile, Iran and North Korea might have atomic weapons. Yay!



I would say that humans embrace a policy of continual war.   Just look at history.  Anyone denying that will eventually be under the rule of an iron fist.


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Angelo said:


> Here we go again.
> *https://summit.news/2019/04/30/shock-video-shows-government-vehicle-mowing-down-venezuelan-protesters/*
> 
> *US-backed Guaido calls for Venezuela military uprising in VIDEO of him surrounded by soldiers*
> 
> *‘Traitor troops’ stage coup attempt in Venezuela – VP*
> 
> 
> The leader of Venezuela's opposition, Juan Guaido, declared he was "beginning the final phase of Operation Freedom" after a dawn address in which he was flanked by men in military fatigues and armored vehicles in the capital Caracas. Venezuela's Information Minister Jorge Rodríguez called Guaido's action a "coup" on Twitter, adding that the government is "deactivating a small number of traitorous military personnel."
> **Same story all around the echo chamber.




I was watching the vid of the protesters getting run over by armored vehicles.
the people we're carrying at least one guy off

right into em on purpose like a sand savage


----------



## beautress

Deplorable Yankee said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again.
> *https://summit.news/2019/04/30/shock-video-shows-government-vehicle-mowing-down-venezuelan-protesters/*
> 
> *US-backed Guaido calls for Venezuela military uprising in VIDEO of him surrounded by soldiers*
> 
> *‘Traitor troops’ stage coup attempt in Venezuela – VP*
> 
> 
> The leader of Venezuela's opposition, Juan Guaido, declared he was "beginning the final phase of Operation Freedom" after a dawn address in which he was flanked by men in military fatigues and armored vehicles in the capital Caracas. Venezuela's Information Minister Jorge Rodríguez called Guaido's action a "coup" on Twitter, adding that the government is "deactivating a small number of traitorous military personnel."
> **Same story all around the echo chamber.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was watching the vid of the protesters getting run over by armored vehicles.
> the people we're carrying at least one guy off
> 
> right into em on purpose like a sand savage
Click to expand...

Sounds like a reincarnation of Saddam Hussein took place.


----------



## McRocket

Outside of mass genocide...WHAT GOES ON IN VENEZUELA IS NONE OF AMERICA’S BUSINESS.

ZERO.

The only thing Trump, Bolton and company want is oil.

Trump and his America First policy has proven to be almost, pure bullshit.


----------



## Preacher

RandomPoster said:


> Odium said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RandomPoster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro is sending in the troops as protests are growing.  There is at least one video of an armored military vehicle plowing through a crowd of desperate protestors.  There are rumors that more and more of the military is joining the rebels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean CIA puppet Guaido and his band of CIA trained mercenaries are trying to overthrow the legitimately elected president of Venezuela. Maduro is an idiot but the Venezuelan's elected the fucking idiot so let them deal with it. I am beyond fucking tired of watching the US think it has the right to overthrow ANY leader it wants.I hope Maduro crushes this shit and executes anyone involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we simply gave socialism a little more time to work in Venezuela.  Give it a chance guys.  It'll eventually turn into "real socialism".
Click to expand...

Never said that did I? Simply put. This is NONE of our damn business. Period.


----------



## basquebromance

"If Cuban Troops and Militia do not immediately CEASE military and other operations for the purpose of causing death and destruction to the Constitution of Venezuela, a full and complete embargo, together with highest-level sanctions, will be placed on the island of Cuba. Hopefully, all Cuban soldiers will promptly and peacefully return to their island!" - President Trump


----------



## P F Tinmore

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has anyone seen him today?
> You better check with Ollie and Elliot!
Click to expand...

*Ilhan Omar Humiliates War Criminal*

**


----------



## 22lcidw

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has anyone seen him today?
> You better check with Ollie and Elliot!
Click to expand...

There was a time I read that magazine. What a fool! Anyway Chavez and Maduro have done a number on Venezuela. Chavez is the one that gave fellow socialist Obama a book in 2009 at a meeting.


----------



## beautress

McRocket said:


> Outside of mass genocide...WHAT GOES ON IN VENEZUELA IS NONE OF AMERICA’S BUSINESS.
> ZERO.
> The only thing Trump, Bolton and company want is oil.
> Trump and his America First policy has proven to be almost, pure bullshit.


Who makes decisions of state is at the discretion of the Executive Branch of the United States Government. You're fooling only yourself.


----------



## Bleipriester

Everything you need to know about Guaido´s coup:
Venezuelan Military Putsch Defeated as Leopoldo Lopez Takes Refuge in Spanish Embassy


----------



## SweetSue92

If America goes in there at all, I hope we are very very cautious, do so as only a last resort and send only the barest number of troops. I'm sick of being the world's military. For once let the world do the job. 

Can't wait to read all the foreigners now whine, "America, DO SOMETHING."

No. Your turn.


----------



## Bleipriester

SweetSue92 said:


> If America goes in there at all, I hope we are very very cautious, do so as only a last resort and send only the barest number of troops. I'm sick of being the world's military. For once let the world do the job.
> 
> Can't wait to read all the foreigners now whine, "America, DO SOMETHING."
> 
> No. Your turn.


The gangsters are already jailed or fled. Everything is fine now. The criminal they released and who fled was in gaol (and later in arrest) for arson.


----------



## SweetSue92

Bleipriester said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If America goes in there at all, I hope we are very very cautious, do so as only a last resort and send only the barest number of troops. I'm sick of being the world's military. For once let the world do the job.
> 
> Can't wait to read all the foreigners now whine, "America, DO SOMETHING."
> 
> No. Your turn.
> 
> 
> 
> The gangsters are already jailed or fled. Everything is fine now. The criminal they released and who fled was in gaol (and later in arrest) for arson.
Click to expand...


"everything is fine now"? As in the people can go back to starving and checking into hospitals run like they were run in the 1800s?

Okay


----------



## Bleipriester

SweetSue92 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If America goes in there at all, I hope we are very very cautious, do so as only a last resort and send only the barest number of troops. I'm sick of being the world's military. For once let the world do the job.
> 
> Can't wait to read all the foreigners now whine, "America, DO SOMETHING."
> 
> No. Your turn.
> 
> 
> 
> The gangsters are already jailed or fled. Everything is fine now. The criminal they released and who fled was in gaol (and later in arrest) for arson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "everything is fine now"? As in the people can go back to starving and checking into hospitals run like they were run in the 1800s?
> 
> Okay
Click to expand...

Like they were before Chavez? No, they won´t allow this to happen again.


----------



## JWBooth

SweetSue92 said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If America goes in there at all, I hope we are very very cautious, do so as only a last resort and send only the barest number of troops. I'm sick of being the world's military. For once let the world do the job.
> 
> Can't wait to read all the foreigners now whine, "America, DO SOMETHING."
> 
> No. Your turn.
> 
> 
> 
> The gangsters are already jailed or fled. Everything is fine now. The criminal they released and who fled was in gaol (and later in arrest) for arson.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "everything is fine now"? As in the people can go back to starving and checking into hospitals run like they were run in the 1800s?
> 
> Okay
Click to expand...

The US sanctions on foods and medicines, much like current blockade of medical and food goods to Yemen and earlier Iraq (where the deaths of 300,000 children was “worth it”) enlarges the suffering.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Pete7469 said:


> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!


I used to think Pinochet was a bad guy, then you see what Progressive scum like Chavez and Maduro do to their own people


----------



## JWBooth

“At least under democratic socialism, after the government runs you down with an armored car, you get free healthcare.”
Austin Peterson


----------



## JWBooth

“So who convinced coup leader Leopoldo Lopez to hide in the Chilean embassy and his little  band of 25 military defectors to flee to Brazil’s after just 12 hours of failure upon miserable “
Max Blumenthal


----------



## JWBooth

Maduro 1 CIA/USAID/NED/Pompeo/Bolton/Guaido 0


----------



## sparky




----------



## MisterBeale

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The best thing we can do for Venezuela is to let those fuckers sleep in the shit bed they made.  We should have no part of it.
> 
> Let that be a lesson to the rest of the world about voting for commies.
> 
> .


It's more a problem of diminishing returns.

Socialism tends to be very good at developing backward nations.  It very quickly caught Russia up to the rest of the industrialized world, but then held it back.

The same was true of China.

If you look, objectively at the metrics of how both Castro and Chavez fought poverty and illiteracy in their nations, there can be no dispute about their policies.

OTH, at a certain point, the restrictive controls over the population with the use of government policy tends to be a hindrance rather than a boon on the productive capacity of the nation.

"1. Never in the history of Latin America, has a political leader had such incontestable democratic legitimacy. Since coming to power in 1999, there were 16 elections in Venezuela. Hugo Chavez won 15, the last on October 7, 2012. He defeated his rivals with a margin of 10-20 percentage points.

 2. All international bodies, from the European Union to the Organization of American States, to the Union of South American Nations and the Carter Center, were unanimous in recognizing the transparency of the vote counts.

 3. James Carter, former U.S. President, declared that Venezuela's electoral system was "the best in the world."

4. Universal access to education introduced in 1998 had exceptional results. About 1.5 million Venezuelans learned to read and write thanks to the literacy campaign called Mission Robinson I.

 5. In December 2005, UNESCO said that Venezuela had eradicated illiteracy.

6. The number of children attending school increased from 6 million in 1998 to 13 million in 2011 and the enrollment rate is now 93.2%.

7. Mission Robinson II was launched to bring the entire population up to secondary level. Thus, the rate of secondary school enrollment rose from 53.6% in 2000 to 73.3% in 2011.

8. Missions Ribas and Sucre allowed tens of thousands of young adults to undertake university studies. Thus, the number of tertiary students increased from 895,000 in 2000 to 2.3 million in 2011, assisted by the creation of new universities.

 9. With regard to health, they created the National Public System to ensure free access to health care for all Venezuelans. Between 2005 and 2012, 7873 new medical centers were created in Venezuela.

 10. The number of doctors increased from 20 per 100,000 population in 1999 to 80 per 100,000 in 2010, or an increase of 400%.

11. Mission Barrio Adentro I provided 534 million medical consultations. About 17 million people were attended, while in 1998 less than 3 million people had regular access to health. 1.7 million lives were saved, between 2003 and 2011.

12. The infant mortality rate fell from 19.1 per thousand in 1999 to 10 per thousand in 2012, a reduction of 49%.

13. Average life expectancy increased from 72.2 years in 1999 to 74.3 years in 2011.

14. Thanks to Operation Miracle, launched in 2004, 1.5 million Venezuelans who were victims of cataracts or other eye diseases, regained their sight.

15. From 1999 to 2011, the poverty rate decreased from 42.8% to 26.5% and the rate of extreme poverty fell from 16.6% in 1999 to 7% in 2011.

 16. In the rankings of the Human Development Index (HDI) of the United Nations Program for Development (UNDP), Venezuela jumped from 83 in 2000 (0.656) at position 73 in 2011 (0.735), and entered into the category Nations with 'High HDI'.

17. The GINI coefficient, which allows calculation of inequality in a country, fell from 0.46 in 1999 to 0.39 in 2011.

 18. According to the UNDP, Venezuela holds the lowest recorded Gini coefficient in Latin America, that is, Venezuela is the country in the region with the least inequality.

19. Child malnutrition was reduced by 40% since 1999.

20. In 1999, 82% of the population had access to safe drinking water. Now it is 95%.

21. Under President Chavez social expenditures increased by 60.6%.

22. Before 1999, only 387,000 elderly people received a pension. Now the figure is 2.1 million.

23. Since 1999, 700,000 homes have been built in Venezuela.

 24. Since 1999, the government provided / returned more than one million hectares of land to Aboriginal people.

 25. Land reform enabled tens of thousands of farmers to own their land. In total, Venezuela distributed more than 3 million hectares.

26. In 1999, Venezuela was producing 51% of food consumed. In 2012, production was 71%, while food consumption increased by 81% since 1999. If consumption of 2012 was similar to that of 1999, Venezuela produced 140% of the food it consumed.

27. Since 1999, the average calories consumed by Venezuelans increased by 50% thanks to the Food Mission that created a chain of 22,000 food stores (MERCAL, Houses Food, Red PDVAL), where products are subsidized up to 30%. Meat consumption increased by 75% since 1999.

 28. Five million children now receive free meals through the School Feeding Programme. The figure was 250,000 in 1999.

 29. The malnutrition rate fell from 21% in 1998 to less than 3% in 2012.

30. According to the FAO, Venezuela is the most advanced country in Latin America and the Caribbean in the erradication of hunger.

 31. The nationalization of the oil company PDVSA in 2003 allowed Venezuela to regain its energy sovereignty.

 32. The nationalization of the electrical and telecommunications sectors (CANTV and Electricidad de Caracas) allowed the end of private monopolies and guaranteed universal access to these services.

33. Since 1999, more than 50,000 cooperatives have been created in all sectors of the economy.

34. The unemployment rate fell from 15.2% in 1998 to 6.4% in 2012, with the creation of more than 4 million jobs.

 35. The minimum wage increased from 100 bolivars/month ($ 16) in 1998 to 2047.52 bolivars ($ 330) in 2012, ie an increase of over 2,000%. This is the highest minimum wage in Latin America.

36. In 1999, 65% of the workforce earned the minimum wage. In 2012 only 21.1% of workers have only this level of pay.

37. Adults at a certain age who have never worked still get an income equivalent to 60% of the minimum wage.

38. Women without income and disabled people receive a pension equivalent to 80% of the minimum wage.

39. Working hours were reduced to 6 hours a day and 36 hours per week, without loss of pay.

40. Public debt fell from 45% of GDP in 1998 to 20% in 2011. Venezuela withdrew from the International Monetary Fund and World Bank, after early repayment of all its debts.

41. In 2012, the growth rate was 5.5% in Venezuela, one of the highest in the world.

42. GDP per capita rose from $ 4,100 in 1999 to $ 10,810 in 2011.

43. According to the annual World Happiness 2012, Venezuela is the second happiest country in Latin America, behind Costa Rica, and the nineteenth worldwide, ahead of Germany and Spain.

 44. Venezuela offers more direct support to the American continent than the United States. In 2007, Chávez spent more than 8,800 million dollars in grants, loans and energy aid as against 3,000 million from the Bush administration.

45. For the first time in its history, Venezuela has its own satellites (Bolivar and Miranda) and is now sovereign in the field of space technology. The entire country has internet and telecommunications coverage.

 46. The creation of Petrocaribe in 2005 allows 18 countries in Latin America and the Caribbean, or 90 million people, secure energy supply, by oil subsidies of between 40% to 60%.

47. Venezuela also provides assistance to disadvantaged communities in the United States by providing fuel at subsidized rates.

48. The creation of the Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America (ALBA) in 2004 between Cuba and Venezuela laid the foundations of an inclusive alliance based on cooperation and reciprocity. It now comprises eight member countries which places the human being in the center of the social project, with the aim of combating poverty and social exclusion.

49. Hugo Chavez was at the heart of the creation in 2011 of the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States (CELAC) which brings together for the first time the 33 nations of the region, emancipated from the tutelage of the United States and Canada.

50. Hugo Chavez played a key role in the peace process in Colombia. According to President Juan Manuel Santos, "if we go into a solid peace project, with clear and concrete progress, progress achieved ever before with the FARC, is also due to the dedication and commitment of Chavez and the government of Venezuela."
*50 Truths about Hugo Chavez and the Bolivarian Revolution*






*How did Venezuela change under Hugo Chávez?*

On that other hand, all of this can come at a dire, dire cost.  Much like the Soviet Union sapping the productive classes of it's creative potential as a price for modernization in the early part of the 20th century to grind the nation to a halt by the 50's, now, Venezuela is finding a stagnant economic paradigm.


*The Legacy of Hugo Chávez  |  Harvard Political Review*
*Unsustainable Economic Policies*


". . . Though Chávez’s social programs benefitted many poor Venezuelans, his policies came at a high economic and social cost that has laid the foundation for present and future economic challenges. Under Chávez, corruption, inefficiency, and mismanagement grew significantly. Chávez oversaw a decrease in oil production from 3.3 million barrels produced per day when he took power in 1998, to 2.4 million barrels per day in 2012. The effects of this decline have yet to be felt because of a corresponding increase in prices, but they may manifest themselves before long. According to MercoPress, oil accounts for over one third of Venezuela’s GDP, half of government revenues, and 90 percent of its exports. Ricardo Hausmann of the Kennedy School and former Venezuelan Minister of Planning criticized Chávez for remaining complacent despite Venezuela’s valuable resources. “The good hand that Chávez was dealt—the high price of oil—was not used to create a stronger country or a stronger society … he threw it away with a set of policies that will prove unsustainable,” he told the HPR.


Chávez’s socialist policies also hurt Venezuela’s productive capabilities by alienating business interests in the country. Venezuela was listed number 180 out of 185 countries on the World Bank’s list of “Ease of Doing Business” economies, a result of its socialist polices. In addition to these difficulties, Venezuela ended 2012 with an annual inflation rate of 20.1 percent. In the flourishing currency black market, a dollar is valued at 16 bolivars, contrasted with the official rate of 4.3 bolivars to the dollar. Venezuela’s only reliable export in the face of these circumstances is oil.


In addition to these economic challenges, the country’s security has also taken a hit. More civilians were killed in Venezuela from 2003 to 2011 than in Iraq during the same period of time, making Caracas more deadly than Baghdad. “Astronomical levels of crime and violence make Venezuela the most dangerous country in South America in terms of homicide,” according to Arnson. . . . "


----------



## Likkmee

Moonglow said:


> Warning, graphic video: Government vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela
> Fucking awesome!


----------



## georgephillip

22lcidw said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has anyone seen him today?
> You better check with Ollie and Elliot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was a time I read that magazine. What a fool! Anyway Chavez and Maduro have done a number on Venezuela. Chavez is the one that gave fellow socialist Obama a book in 2009 at a meeting.
Click to expand...




22lcidw said:


> There was a time I read that magazine. What a fool! Anyway Chavez and Maduro have done a number on Venezuela. Chavez is the one that gave fellow socialist Obama a book in 2009 at a meeting.


*You mean this book?*




Chávez creates overnight bestseller with book gift to Obama

"During a session of the summit of the Americas in Trinidad at the weekend, Chávez strode up to Obama, patted him on the shoulder and, with a friendly handshake, gave him a paperback copy of Eduardo Galeano's 1973 work, Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent.

"As footage of the encounter appeared on news bulletins, the book rocketed up the US paperback sales chart of the online bookseller Amazon, soaring from number 54,295 to sixth place within 24 hours."

*If Obama was a socialist (he wasn't), why did his justice department refuse to prosecute any of the Wall Street bankers who crashed the US economy in 2008?*


----------



## MisterBeale

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has anyone seen him today?
> You better check with Ollie and Elliot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Ilhan Omar Humiliates War Criminal*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Hillary would have have invaded before the election was even held. . . .


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

sparky said:


>



Only idiots could fuck up that much oil...….


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## McRocket

beautress said:


> McRocket said:
> 
> 
> 
> Outside of mass genocide...WHAT GOES ON IN VENEZUELA IS NONE OF AMERICA’S BUSINESS.
> ZERO.
> The only thing Trump, Bolton and company want is oil.
> Trump and his America First policy has proven to be almost, pure bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Who makes decisions of state is at the discretion of the Executive Branch of the United States Government. You're fooling only yourself.
Click to expand...

I am not ‘fooling myself’.
Well Duh that Trump The Senile legally speaks for America. I don’t give a shit.
What he is doing on this is still wrong.
America has NO BUSINESS telling Venezuela how to run their country...period.


----------



## Moonglow

Toddsterpatriot said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots could fuck up that much oil...….
Click to expand...

In one year the price of oil dropped 45%.


----------



## McRocket

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has anyone seen him today?
> You better check with Ollie and Elliot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Ilhan Omar Humiliates War Criminal*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


The more I hear/read about Omar, the more I like her. She seems REALLY decent and she has got GUTS.
The fact that she is a Muslim woman - that alone massively pisses off racist/xenophobic/misogynistic Trumpbots - is a big bonus.


----------



## beautress

I pray for the people of Venezuela, because in a socialist country, there are have-nots because it takes all the country's resources to please the haves, who happen to be close members of a cabal. Everyone else is under suspicion. I'd be almost as bad as being on Hillary Clinton's no-help-hit list, which we have known about since the 900+ FBI files were found in her area of the White House when her husband was president. And while she loses exculpatory emails, she doesn't lose her FBI-related information lists.


----------



## beautress

McRocket said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McRocket said:
> 
> 
> 
> Outside of mass genocide...WHAT GOES ON IN VENEZUELA IS NONE OF AMERICA’S BUSINESS.
> ZERO.
> The only thing Trump, Bolton and company want is oil.
> Trump and his America First policy has proven to be almost, pure bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Who makes decisions of state is at the discretion of the Executive Branch of the United States Government. You're fooling only yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not ‘fooling myself’.
> Well Duh that Trump The Senile legally speaks for America. I don’t give a shit.
> What he is doing on this is still wrong.
> America has NO BUSINESS telling Venezuela how to run their country...period.
Click to expand...

You're willing to tell the United States President how to do his job. Of course, a man who fools himself isn't going to examine why very much.


----------



## the other mike

longknife said:


> Word has it that Maduro is boarding a plane for Cuba. He's already shipped out endless millions in stolen gold.


As a last resort there's a plane waiting to take him to Cuba, and do you have as source about the alleged 'stolen gold' ?


----------



## Pete7469

CrusaderFrank said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I used to think Pinochet was a bad guy, then you see what Progressive scum like Chavez and Maduro do to their own people
Click to expand...



By killing a few thousand commies Pinochet saved the lives of millions.


.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

McRocket said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Restrictions Reported as Venezuela Crisis Intensifies
> 
> "A group that monitors internet censorship says Venezuela’s state run internet provider has been restricting access to YouTube and Google services following the opposition leader’s call for the military to revolt against President Nicolás Maduro.
> 
> "The non-governmental NetBlocks group says access to the services remains intermittently available since the restrictions don’t appear to be completely effective.
> 
> "It says Twitter, Facebook and several other services were briefly restricted earlier, although core internet connectivity remains unaffected."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US neocons are once again behind foreign policy, so expect a constant green light for regime change in Venezuela especially as impeachment talk heats up in DC.
> 
> The History - and Hypocrisy - of US Meddling in Venezuela*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro eat a bullet yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has anyone seen him today?
> You better check with Ollie and Elliot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Ilhan Omar Humiliates War Criminal*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The more I hear/read about Omar, the more I like her. She seems REALLY decent and she has got GUTS.
> The fact that she is a Muslim woman - that alone massively pisses off racist/xenophobic/misogynistic Trumpbots - is a big bonus.
Click to expand...


Yeah, me too! She's the new face of the Death to America! democrat Party


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Moonglow said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots could fuck up that much oil...….
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In one year the price of oil dropped 45%.
Click to expand...


How much has their production dropped in the last 5 years? Last 10 years?
How much have their exports dropped?


----------



## Silent Warrior

McRocket said:


> The more I hear/read about Omar, the more I like her. She seems REALLY decent and she has got GUTS.
> The fact that she is a Muslim woman - that alone massively pisses off racist/xenophobic/misogynistic Trumpbots - is a big bonus.


----------



## JWBooth

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots could fuck up that much oil...….
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In one year the price of oil dropped 45%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much has their production dropped in the last 5 years? Last 10 years?
> How much have their exports dropped?
Click to expand...

That largely goes the US blocking the convertibility of their currency.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

JWBooth said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots could fuck up that much oil...….
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In one year the price of oil dropped 45%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much has their production dropped in the last 5 years? Last 10 years?
> How much have their exports dropped?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That largely goes the US blocking the convertibility of their currency.
Click to expand...


How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?


----------



## georgephillip

Toddsterpatriot said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots could fuck up that much oil...….
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In one year the price of oil dropped 45%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much has their production dropped in the last 5 years? Last 10 years?
> How much have their exports dropped?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That largely goes the US blocking the convertibility of their currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?
Click to expand...




Toddsterpatriot said:


> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?







How could the most powerful empire in history use its global reserve currency to influence the currency convertibility of lesser economies; is that what's "confusing" you, Kulak?

Reserve currency - Wikipedia


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Who do dems want as Maduros running mate in 2020, Biden, Bernie or Lizzy?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only idiots could fuck up that much oil...….
> 
> 
> 
> In one year the price of oil dropped 45%.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much has their production dropped in the last 5 years? Last 10 years?
> How much have their exports dropped?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That largely goes the US blocking the convertibility of their currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How could the most powerful empire in history use its global reserve currency to influence the currency convertibility of lesser economies; is that what's "confusing" you, Kulak?
> 
> Reserve currency - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


*How could the most powerful empire in history use its global reserve currency to influence the currency convertibility of lesser economies; *

Yes. If China, for example, wanted to make the Yuan convertible, just what exactly could the US do to stop them?

Be specific. 

No need to post a link without specifying what in that link helps your claim.


----------



## Skull

A patriot whose family fled Soviet, then Cuban & finally Venezuelan Communism:


----------



## georgephillip

Toddsterpatriot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> In one year the price of oil dropped 45%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much has their production dropped in the last 5 years? Last 10 years?
> How much have their exports dropped?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That largely goes the US blocking the convertibility of their currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How could the most powerful empire in history use its global reserve currency to influence the currency convertibility of lesser economies; is that what's "confusing" you, Kulak?
> 
> Reserve currency - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How could the most powerful empire in history use its global reserve currency to influence the currency convertibility of lesser economies; *
> 
> Yes. If China, for example, wanted to make the Yuan convertible, just what exactly could the US do to stop them?
> 
> Be specific.
> 
> No need to post a link without specifying what in that link helps your claim.
Click to expand...




Toddsterpatriot said:


> es. If China, for example, wanted to make the Yuan convertible, just what exactly could the US do to stop them?


China's economy is less resistant to US meddling than Venezuela's or Cuba's?




What about Chile's in 1970?
Chile and the United States: Declassified Documents Relating to the Military Coup, September 11, 1973


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much has their production dropped in the last 5 years? Last 10 years?
> How much have their exports dropped?
> 
> 
> 
> That largely goes the US blocking the convertibility of their currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How could the US stop any country from making their currency convertible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How could the most powerful empire in history use its global reserve currency to influence the currency convertibility of lesser economies; is that what's "confusing" you, Kulak?
> 
> Reserve currency - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How could the most powerful empire in history use its global reserve currency to influence the currency convertibility of lesser economies; *
> 
> Yes. If China, for example, wanted to make the Yuan convertible, just what exactly could the US do to stop them?
> 
> Be specific.
> 
> No need to post a link without specifying what in that link helps your claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> es. If China, for example, wanted to make the Yuan convertible, just what exactly could the US do to stop them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China's economy is less resistant to US meddling than Venezuela's or Cuba's?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about Chile's in 1970?
> Chile and the United States: Declassified Documents Relating to the Military Coup, September 11, 1973
Click to expand...


If China is too difficult for you to use, use Cuba.
If Cuba decided to make their shitty currency convertible 1:1 with the US Dollar or the Euro, 
what could the US do to stop them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Raid expected soon!

The Venezuelan Embassy Protection Collective has been staying at the *legitimate government's embassy at their invitation.* Activists expect a raid by US authorities in the coming hours. Let's talk to them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rally outside the Venezuelan Embassy in DC as opposition leader Juan Guiado stages a military coup attempt in Caracas.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## sparky

the usual lame excuses, partisan diversions, denials, dillusions of democracy ,  along with jingoist windbags

Why don't you folks _man up _to the American Empire

Admit might makes right

It'll be a lot easier




~S~


----------



## Zorro!

Bleipriester said:


> People are fed up with Guaido thugs.


Oh, right!

THIS AGED WELL: David Sirota in _Salon,_ 2013: Hugo Chavez’s economic miracle: The Venezuelan leader was often marginalized as a radical. But his brand of socialism achieved real economic gains.

Well, to be fair, Chavez’s family and hangers-on made plenty of gains. But that’s how socialism works. Talk about equality while cementing a privileged class that loots the country and leaves everyone else poor.

Rich kid of Communism: Fidel Castro’s model grandson flashes his wealth and love of the high life on Instagram as he travels the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## the other mike

Guaido puppet fail.


----------



## anynameyouwish

Angelo said:


> Here we go again.
> *https://summit.news/2019/04/30/shock-video-shows-government-vehicle-mowing-down-venezuelan-protesters/*
> 
> *US-backed Guaido calls for Venezuela military uprising in VIDEO of him surrounded by soldiers*
> 
> *‘Traitor troops’ stage coup attempt in Venezuela – VP*
> 
> 
> The leader of Venezuela's opposition, Juan Guaido, declared he was "beginning the final phase of Operation Freedom" after a dawn address in which he was flanked by men in military fatigues and armored vehicles in the capital Caracas. Venezuela's Information Minister Jorge Rodríguez called Guaido's action a "coup" on Twitter, adding that the government is "deactivating a small number of traitorous military personnel."
> **Same story all around the echo chamber.



does anyone else see the pattern?

is this just a coincidence?


the  leaders of 2 russian puppet states accusing their opposition of  "a coup!"  at the same time.....?

BTW....per the Monroe Doctrine, the russians are STILL in venezuela even though trump and the US told them to get out LONG AGO!....

but apparently cons haven't noticed because the conservative media doesn't remind them 100 times a day.


----------



## Likkmee

The Empire told Fidel to " get out" 60 years ago.....Oh well


----------



## the other mike

anynameyouwish said:


> does anyone else see the pattern?
> 
> .



*http://time.com/5512005/venezuela-us-intervention-history-latin-america/*


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

*Nicolas Maduro should be worrying about what happened to Benito Mussolini.*
*Give it up.*


----------



## the other mike

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> *Nicolas Maduro should be worrying about what happened to Benito Mussolini.*
> *Give it up.*


Or Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi.


----------



## JWBooth

Mussolini had angered the populace by allowing German occupation, not that he could have stopped it. Maduro’s people may not be enamored with him but they seem to oppose US imperialism and the US puppet more.


----------



## the other mike

Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017



If only we had no sanctions on them, they'd be rich like Switzerland, eh?


----------



## the other mike

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only we had no sanctions on them, they'd be rich like Switzerland, eh?
Click to expand...

The United States is the school bully and it's karma is approaching soon.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only we had no sanctions on them, they'd be rich like Switzerland, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The United States is the school bully and it's karma is approaching soon.
Click to expand...


It was so much better when Obama was on his apology tour....oh, wait, no it wasn't.


----------



## beautress

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> *Nicolas Maduro should be worrying about what happened to Benito Mussolini.*
> *Give it up.*


Nailed!


----------



## JWBooth

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only we had no sanctions on them, they'd be rich like Switzerland, eh?
Click to expand...

Bullshit, nobody claims that. But like the half million dead Iraqi children and the famine and cholera in Yemen, a bad situation is made desperate because of US policies that intentionally make it so.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## the other mike

beautress said:


> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nicolas Maduro should be worrying about what happened to Benito Mussolini.*
> *Give it up.*
> 
> 
> 
> Nailed!
Click to expand...

Americans are so 
~sleepwalking~


----------



## beautress

Angelo said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nicolas Maduro should be worrying about what happened to Benito Mussolini.*
> *Give it up.*
> 
> 
> 
> Nailed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Americans are so
> ~sleepwalking~
Click to expand...

Patronize us foreigners in the Western Hemisphere much, Mr. Dervish?


----------



## the other mike

beautress said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nicolas Maduro should be worrying about what happened to Benito Mussolini.*
> *Give it up.*
> 
> 
> 
> Nailed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Americans are so
> ~sleepwalking~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Patronize us foreigners in the Western Hemisphere much, Mr. Dervish?
Click to expand...

I know you can't take criticism. *"America is the
greatest country on earth !" 
(*we tell the rest of the world every day*)*


----------



## the other mike

The United States could have been the greatest country on earth and we blew it.


----------



## beautress

Angelo said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nicolas Maduro should be worrying about what happened to Benito Mussolini.*
> *Give it up.*
> 
> 
> 
> Nailed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Americans are so
> ~sleepwalking~
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Patronize us foreigners in the Western Hemisphere much, Mr. Dervish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know you can't take criticism. *"America is the
> greatest country on earth !"
> (*we tell the rest of the world every day*)*
Click to expand...

And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!


----------



## the other mike

beautress said:


> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!


Deflecting ?
Did you learn a new word today ?
Congratulations.


*Offensive img removed.*


----------



## beautress

Angelo said:


> The United States could have been the greatest country on earth and we blew it.
> View attachment 259182


Nope! We hired President Trump the businessman, and he's got a bull market going that will last for generations unless America falls for the social communists in the Democrat Party. I have a hunch that their top brasses are going to be doing some 'splainin' about the error of their conspiratorial leaders ways, who are soon to be disavowed after ample smudging of Republicans is done to their miserable satisfaction of being the biggest do-nothings on the planet, jealous of President Trump for his multiple successes on all fronts.


----------



## beautress

Angelo said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
Click to expand...

Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.


----------



## the other mike

beautress said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The United States could have been the greatest country on earth and we blew it.
> View attachment 259182
> 
> 
> 
> Nope! We hired President Trump the businessman, and he's got a bull market going that will last for generations unless America falls for the social communists in the Democrat Party. I have a hunch that their top brasses are going to be doing some 'splainin' about the error of their conspiratorial leaders ways, who are soon to be disavowed after ample smudging of Republicans is done to their miserable satisfaction of being the biggest do-nothings on the planet, jealous of President Trump for his multiple successes on all fronts.
Click to expand...

Presidents come and go .


----------



## the other mike

beautress said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
Click to expand...

Nobody's knocking the troops. Don't spin this away from the fact that the US is an empire.


----------



## beautress

Venezuela Should Follow Germany and Japan's Path To Wealth:



​Venezuela -- what a mess!

Despite how bad things are right now, I think that Venezuela could become happy in prosperous in a very short time; and become the wealthiest country in Latin America within fifteen years, or even ten. In 1948, what you are now seeing in Venezuela -- hyperinflation and general economic collapse -- was happening in Germany and Japan. Two years later, both countries' economies were roaring to life, and they continued roaring throughout the 1950s and 1960s. They were among the greatest economic comebacks of all time. Venezuela could do the same today.

More at Forbes Magazine: Venezuela Should Follow Germany And Japan's Path To Wealth
​


----------



## the other mike

P F Tinmore said:


>


For those who missed this.


----------



## OldLady

I'm not sure the Venezuelans want to follow the capitalist model.


----------



## the other mike




----------



## JWBooth

beautress said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
Click to expand...

Especially the bar owners and prostitutes.


----------



## JWBooth

Angelo said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody's knocking the troops. Don't spin this away from the fact that the US is an empire.
Click to expand...

Every empire needs its storm troopers.


----------



## beautress

Angelo said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The United States could have been the greatest country on earth and we blew it.
> View attachment 259182
> 
> 
> 
> Nope! We hired President Trump the businessman, and he's got a bull market going that will last for generations unless America falls for the social communists in the Democrat Party. I have a hunch that their top brasses are going to be doing some 'splainin' about the error of their conspiratorial leaders ways, who are soon to be disavowed after ample smudging of Republicans is done to their miserable satisfaction of being the biggest do-nothings on the planet, jealous of President Trump for his multiple successes on all fronts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Presidents come and go .
Click to expand...

You gave 50 seconds to President Trump and  2,221 seconds to leftists. I'm outta here.


----------



## beautress

JWBooth said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Especially the bar owners and prostitutes.
Click to expand...

That is a beneath craven remark about America's heroes.


----------



## the other mike

JWBooth said:


> Every empire needs its storm troopers.


Somebody has to drive these things.


----------



## JWBooth

Angelo said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every empire needs its storm troopers.
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody has to drive these things.
Click to expand...

Bubbleheads refer to them as targets.


----------



## JWBooth

beautress said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Especially the bar owners and prostitutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a beneath craven remark about America's heroes.
Click to expand...

Heroes my ass, its an overused and inaccurate descriptor for every mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, near moron that ever believed a recruiter's lies and signed an enlistment contract.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Slyhunter

Send in a couple of Helicopters. They'll fix things.


----------



## MarathonMike

How does this not turn into Syria 2.0?


----------



## JWBooth




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Slyhunter

It's not a coup. It's an attempt to put the rightful President, properly elected, in his place. Maduro lost the election.


----------



## sparky

different country....same 'ol sh*t.....~S~


----------



## beautress

JWBooth said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Especially the bar owners and prostitutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a beneath craven remark about America's heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heroes my ass, its an overused and inaccurate descriptor for every mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, near moron that ever believed a recruiter's lies and signed an enlistment contract.
Click to expand...

You are mistaken about America's brave military soldiers. Every one of them is called on to defend the Constitution of the United States. They are beacons of light in a dark world, and they put their lives on the line for YOU and the rest of us every day. Fortunately, the majority of American citizens are not cowards screaming anatomical obscenities from freedoms earned by the blood of America's brave and good military patriots, many of whom return to their families in a wooden box with a flag draped lovingly over what is left of their brave bodies that were killed when they defended your craven spiel by way of the First Amendment Rights against them.


----------



## the other mike

Slyhunter said:


> It's not a coup. It's an attempt to put the rightful President, properly elected, in his place. Maduro lost the election.


Lies .


----------



## the other mike




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## JWBooth

Slyhunter said:


> It's not a coup. It's an attempt to put the rightful President, properly elected, in his place. Maduro lost the election.


Exceot the puppet wasn’t ever on the ballot


----------



## the other mike

P F Tinmore said:


>


Thanks for that - I always loved Abby Martin, even though her tone of voice and rants are a little annoying sometimes. On a side note, I've noticed that Al Jazeera has been doing some Guaido -propaganda- showing their true colors as well - and Telesur looks like all but shut down at this point , although I haven't been looking lately. So the people of Venezuela don't know where to turn at this point. Colombia and Brazil don't want them, so many are fleeing across there to Equador, Peru and Argentina.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hands Off Venezuela Failed Coup Update*

**


----------



## the other mike

Trump and Pompeo --" Military option is on the table."
"The Venezuelan people deserve democracy."

They don't give two shits about those people. I don't even think Trump realizes that his sanctions have already killed 40,000 + people there and of course the MSM including Fox won't report it.




The US moved up since then actually, thanks to the Permian discovery.
(DON'T click on the below image - it's - 5741 × 4160 jpeg )


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Trump and Pompeo --" Military option is on the table."
> "The Venezuelan people deserve democracy."
> 
> They don't give two shits about those people. I don't even think Trump realizes that his sanctions have already killed 40,000 + people there and of course the MSM including Fox won't report it.



Takes a lot of socialist idiocy to fuck up that much oil.
Luckily, Chavez and Maduro had what it takes. 
Venezuela couldn't even produce a million barrels a day in March.


----------



## the other mike

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump and Pompeo --" Military option is on the table."
> "The Venezuelan people deserve democracy."
> 
> They don't give two shits about those people. I don't even think Trump realizes that his sanctions have already killed 40,000 + people there and of course the MSM including Fox won't report it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Takes a lot of socialist idiocy to fuck up that much oil.
> Luckily, Chavez and Maduro had what it takes.
> Venezuela couldn't even produce a million barrels a day in March.
Click to expand...

Both elected by the citizens in larger %'s than Trump won in.


----------



## the other mike

Slyhunter said:


> It's not a coup. It's an attempt to put the rightful President, properly elected, in his place. Maduro lost the election.


Like Russia did for us supposedly ?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump and Pompeo --" Military option is on the table."
> "The Venezuelan people deserve democracy."
> 
> They don't give two shits about those people. I don't even think Trump realizes that his sanctions have already killed 40,000 + people there and of course the MSM including Fox won't report it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Takes a lot of socialist idiocy to fuck up that much oil.
> Luckily, Chavez and Maduro had what it takes.
> Venezuela couldn't even produce a million barrels a day in March.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both elected by the citizens in larger %'s than Trump won in.
Click to expand...


How many millions have fled since Maduro was "elected"?
Can't even produce a million barrels of oil a day.

Socialist Venezuela is a great success!


----------



## the other mike

Toddsterpatriot said:


> How many millions have fled since Maduro was "elected"?
> Can't even produce a million barrels of oil a day.
> 
> Socialist Venezuela is a great success!


The concern of compassionate Americans like you
truly makes a big difference. Thank you sir.


----------



## the other mike

*Washington’s “irresponsible” plan to overthrow the Caracas government by force would result in a catastrophe, the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has warned, calling on the US to stick to the international law on Venezuela.*

Lavrov denounced _“an unprecedented campaign led by the US and aimed at toppling Venezuela’s legitimate government.”_ _What Venezuela needs right now is political dialogue, not power grab attempts, the Russian minister said._

*Attempts to stage a violent upheaval in Caracas have nothing to do with democratic process, and only disrupt any prospects of political settlement.*

*US attempt to topple Venezuelan govt by force would lead to grave consequences – Lavrov*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many millions have fled since Maduro was "elected"?
> Can't even produce a million barrels of oil a day.
> 
> Socialist Venezuela is a great success!
> 
> 
> 
> The concern of compassionate Americans like you
> truly makes a big difference. Thank you sir.
Click to expand...


Happy to point out the incompetence of your heroes.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> *Washington’s “irresponsible” plan to overthrow the Caracas government by force would result in a catastrophe, the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has warned, calling on the US to stick to the international law on Venezuela.*
> 
> Lavrov denounced _“an unprecedented campaign led by the US and aimed at toppling Venezuela’s legitimate government.”_ _What Venezuela needs right now is political dialogue, not power grab attempts, the Russian minister said._
> 
> *Attempts to stage a violent upheaval in Caracas have nothing to do with democratic process, and only disrupt any prospects of political settlement.*
> 
> *US attempt to topple Venezuelan govt by force would lead to grave consequences – Lavrov*



*Washington’s “irresponsible” plan to overthrow the Caracas government by force would result in a catastrophe,*

And how would that differ from the current, Maduro induced shit show?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Calm After the Storm in Venezuela: Opposition and Government Measure Support in Streets*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Kevin Zeese on the Attempted US Coup in Venezuela – May 3, 2019*

**


----------



## Slyhunter

I usually say we should mind our own business, but if we don't take control of Venezuela China, Russia, or Iran will. Isolation policy would have us surrounded by our enemies. Only thing left is the military option. We need to take Maduro out.


----------



## Slyhunter

Another item bugs the shit out of me. Do Socialist countries fail because they are Socialist countries. Or do they fail because we Sanction them?


----------



## the other mike

Slyhunter said:


> I usually say we should mind our own business, but if we don't take control of Venezuela China, Russia, or Iran will. Isolation policy would have us surrounded by our enemies. Only thing left is the military option. We need to take Maduro out.


That's been our excuse for decades.
"If we don't screw them over Russia will. "
 It doesn't fly anymore Skippy.
The cat's out of the bag and the world's watching.


----------



## the other mike

Slyhunter said:


> Another item bugs the shit out of me. Do Socialist countries fail because they are Socialist countries. Or do they fail because we Sanction them?


Jesus. Do some fucking research instead of believing our media and state propaganda for a change. *Sanctions are an act of war.
Listen to someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about.
*


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Angelo said:


> That's been our excuse for decades.
> "If we don't screw them over Russia will. "
> It doesn't fly anymore Skippy.
> The cat's out of the bag and the world's watching.


Your premise rests on a faulty assumption. That we want to and will screw Venezuela over if their socialist dictator Maduro is forced to leave. 
The world is watching. And they see Russia, China and the dwindling socialist Marxist nations trying to prop up a butcher.


----------



## the other mike

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's been our excuse for decades.
> "If we don't screw them over Russia will. "
> It doesn't fly anymore Skippy.
> The cat's out of the bag and the world's watching.
> 
> 
> 
> Your premise rests on a faulty assumption. That we want to and will screw Venezuela over if their socialist dictator Maduro is forced to leave.
> The world is watching. And they see Russia, China and the dwindling socialist Marxist nations trying to prop up a butcher.
Click to expand...


----------



## RoshawnMarkwees

Angelo said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
Click to expand...

It’s apparently easier to install a puppet regime in Venezuela in order to resume Venezuelan oil production than it is to get democrats in Oregon and California to cooperate.


----------



## Aponi

Angelo said:


> Here we go again.
> *https://summit.news/2019/04/30/shock-video-shows-government-vehicle-mowing-down-venezuelan-protesters/*
> 
> *US-backed Guaido calls for Venezuela military uprising in VIDEO of him surrounded by soldiers*
> 
> *‘Traitor troops’ stage coup attempt in Venezuela – VP*
> 
> 
> The leader of Venezuela's opposition, Juan Guaido, declared he was "beginning the final phase of Operation Freedom" after a dawn address in which he was flanked by men in military fatigues and armored vehicles in the capital Caracas. Venezuela's Information Minister Jorge Rodríguez called Guaido's action a "coup" on Twitter, adding that the government is "deactivating a small number of traitorous military personnel."
> **Same story all around the echo chamber.


your a moron dozens of nations over 50 have supported a regime change there . there is no trump troops there you idiot .w.we sent medical products and food and your great leader refused to allow them in the nation .


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Great meme. Have you seen Venezuela lately? People eating zoo animals and garbage. Armored vehicles running people over. Army members attacking protestors. Surely you are blind or joking.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/attachments/1239-jpg.259554/

The EU and OAS wants Meduro gone. What fucking world do you live in?
This isn't a matter of the US showing up and degrading a nation. Venezuela already is severely degraded! Jesus, wake up.


----------



## the other mike

Aponi said:


> your a moron dozens of nations over 50 have supported a regime change there . there is no trump troops there you idiot .w.we sent medical products and food and your great leader refused to allow them in the nation .


I always love when someone tells me ;
"*Your* a moron."


----------



## the other mike

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Great meme. Have you seen Venezuela lately? People eating zoo animals and garbage. Armored vehicles running people over. Army members attacking protestors. Surely you are blind or joking.
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/attachments/1239-jpg.259554/
> 
> The EU and OAS wants Meduro gone. What fucking world do you live in?


You are proving your ignorance once again.
It doesn't get stressful being wrong ALL the time ?
I would think so.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Angelo said:


> You are proving your ignorance once again.
> It doesn't get stressful being wrong ALL the time ?
> I would think so.


*Ad hom garbage as a first resort?  *That is truly sad and pathetic.


----------



## the other mike

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are proving your ignorance once again.
> It doesn't get stressful being wrong ALL the time ?
> I would think so.
> 
> 
> 
> *Ad hom garbage as a first resort?  *That is truly sad and pathetic.
Click to expand...

I've exhausted all my attempts of reason with you.
Again, your ignorance is very revealing.


----------



## Slyhunter

Angelo said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another item bugs the shit out of me. Do Socialist countries fail because they are Socialist countries. Or do they fail because we Sanction them?
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus. Do some fucking research instead of believing our media and state propaganda for a change. *Sanctions are an act of war.
> Listen to someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about.
> *
Click to expand...

I ain't listening to some Democratic hack.


----------



## the other mike

Slyhunter said:


> I ain't listening to some Democratic hack.


Suit yourself. *He slayed Obama in this clip;*
Not too Democrat-sounding to me.


----------



## georgephillip

"Prominent Venezuelan sociologist and intellectual Edgardo Lander says while it’s correct to oppose U.S. intervention and interference, Left media should not minimize the responsibility of the Maduro government for the economic crisis..."

*Lander has some deep doubts about how Chavez chose to implement socialism in Venezuela:

Left Media Coverage of Venezuela Questioned
*
"EDGARDO LANDER: ... In the Venezuelan case, one of the severe problems that has led to the current crisis is the fact that the *Chavez government in the first place identified socialism with state control*, and many, many enterprises were nationalized and came under state control. 

"So what happens? 

"For the state, it became widespread in control of many, many, many activities, but it became weaker. 

"It did not have the capacity to manage or deal with so many enterprises. 

*"It gave priority to ideological purity over technical competence in leading these enterprises. *

"And as a consequence, a huge proportion—and when I mean huge, I mean the great, great majority of those corporations, or small companies, or whatever—went bankrupt, and they only subsisted, they only survived, as a consequence of money that was put on from the oil rent."


----------



## the other mike

georgephillip said:


> "Prominent Venezuelan sociologist and intellectual Edgardo Lander says while it’s correct to oppose U.S. intervention and interference, Left media should not minimize the responsibility of the Maduro government for the economic crisis..."
> 
> *Lander has some deep doubts about how Chavez chose to implement socialism in Venezuela:
> 
> Left Media Coverage of Venezuela Questioned
> *
> "EDGARDO LANDER: ... In the Venezuelan case, one of the severe problems that has led to the current crisis is the fact that the *Chavez government in the first place identified socialism with state control*, and many, many enterprises were nationalized and came under state control.
> 
> "So what happens?
> 
> "For the state, it became widespread in control of many, many, many activities, but it became weaker.
> 
> "It did not have the capacity to manage or deal with so many enterprises.
> 
> *"It gave priority to ideological purity over technical competence in leading these enterprises. *
> 
> "And as a consequence, a huge proportion—and when I mean huge, I mean the great, great majority of those corporations, or small companies, or whatever—went bankrupt, and they only subsisted, they only survived, as a consequence of money that was put on from the oil rent."


"Left media" being Democracy Now and TYT ? Wow a huge 1% swath of the American population .


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Angelo said:


> I've exhausted all my attempts of reason with you.


I have no doubt that's true. In two posts you have already stopped discussing facts in favor of brainless puerile insults.
Address post #193 when you want a seat at the adult's table. 



> Again, your ignorance is very revealing.


So is your juvenile snit. You haven't countered one fact, soyboy. Your act needs some more material.


----------



## georgephillip

Angelo said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Prominent Venezuelan sociologist and intellectual Edgardo Lander says while it’s correct to oppose U.S. intervention and interference, Left media should not minimize the responsibility of the Maduro government for the economic crisis..."
> 
> *Lander has some deep doubts about how Chavez chose to implement socialism in Venezuela:
> 
> Left Media Coverage of Venezuela Questioned
> *
> "EDGARDO LANDER: ... In the Venezuelan case, one of the severe problems that has led to the current crisis is the fact that the *Chavez government in the first place identified socialism with state control*, and many, many enterprises were nationalized and came under state control.
> 
> "So what happens?
> 
> "For the state, it became widespread in control of many, many, many activities, but it became weaker.
> 
> "It did not have the capacity to manage or deal with so many enterprises.
> 
> *"It gave priority to ideological purity over technical competence in leading these enterprises. *
> 
> "And as a consequence, a huge proportion—and when I mean huge, I mean the great, great majority of those corporations, or small companies, or whatever—went bankrupt, and they only subsisted, they only survived, as a consequence of money that was put on from the oil rent."
> 
> 
> 
> "Left media" being Democracy Now and TYT ? Wow a huge 1% swath of the American population .
Click to expand...




Angelo said:


> "Left media" being Democracy Now and TYT ? Wow a huge 1% swath of the American population .


*If I'm understanding Langer's argument correctly, he's saying Chavez made a mistake by instituting state control over a large majority of his country's economy*:

Left Media Coverage of Venezuela Questioned

"EDGARDO LANDER: There were enormous advancements and gains in many areas. In the case of Venezuela, all that had to do with participatory democracy and popular organization. 

"It was a really significant transformation of people’s lives, and people’s sense of dignity and capacity to have a say in their own lives, have a say on the future of the country. 

"There was a very significant change in people’s access to health, to education. And obviously this was a huge change in relation to the previous situations.

"But at the same time, there were limits from the very beginning that could have been debated, and weren’t. 

"For instance, there was a deep contradiction between this active promotion of grassroots organization and the fact that these grassroots organizations, on the main were not really autonomous because there was political democracy at the organizational level, but there wasn’t ever serious steps taken in the direction of economic autonomy or economic democratization."

*Political democracy without economic democracy is a poor substitute for socialism.*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Aponi said:
> 
> 
> 
> your a moron dozens of nations over 50 have supported a regime change there . there is no trump troops there you idiot .w.we sent medical products and food and your great leader refused to allow them in the nation .
> 
> 
> 
> I always love when someone tells me ;
> "*Your* a moron."
Click to expand...


Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.


----------



## the other mike

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.


You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.


----------



## the other mike

Elliott Abrams is a fucking war criminal.


----------



## JimBowie1958




----------



## JimBowie1958

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. We did not start that war, fuckface.

Welcome to my ignore list for being a Hate America First numbnuts.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
Click to expand...


I would never deny that we won the Cold War.


----------



## the other mike

JimBowie1958 said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. We did not start that war, fuckface.
> 
> Welcome to my ignore list for being a Hate America First numbnuts.
Click to expand...


   liar


----------



## the other mike

Ironically, Reagan probably believed what he was saying--he was that naive.  Reagan probably believed that he was a good man doing good things.  He would not have even known that he was a war criminal.


----------



## the other mike




----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
Click to expand...

Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.

When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Angelo said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another item bugs the shit out of me. Do Socialist countries fail because they are Socialist countries. Or do they fail because we Sanction them?
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus. Do some fucking research instead of believing our media and state propaganda for a change. *Sanctions are an act of war.
> Listen to someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about.
> *
Click to expand...

Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.


----------



## the other mike

Soupnazi630 said:


> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.


So don't call it war.
Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
The death toll is still the same.


----------



## Slyhunter

Angelo said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another item bugs the shit out of me. Do Socialist countries fail because they are Socialist countries. Or do they fail because we Sanction them?
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus. Do some fucking research instead of believing our media and state propaganda for a change. *Sanctions are an act of war.
> Listen to someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about.
> *
Click to expand...

What did they do to cause us to sanction them? Being a Socialistic government isn't a good enough reason for me.

Are their people starving because their government is Socialist. Or are they starving because we sanction them?


----------



## the other mike

"Sorry Maduro. We already made our deal."


----------



## Aba Incieni

Maduro means ripe in Spanish.

As in ripe for overthrow.


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> Maduro means ripe in Spanish.
> 
> As in ripe for overthrow.


In English it means world's largest oil reserve.


----------



## Slyhunter

I have a problem with this. We should not sanction countries simply because we don't like their type of Government. Doing it in the name of trying to bring freedom to the people is bullshit, because it doesn't. In this case we should either go to war with their government or we leave them alone. The purpose of Sanctioning is to make life miserable for the civilian so they'll rise up and overthrow their government. What if they don't want to? We screwed up.

Why are we Sanctioning Cuba?
Why are we Sanctioning Venezuela?

In the case of Iran it's because they are trying to attain nuclear weapons for use against our ally Israel. So in that case we are justified to sanction them.

In the case of North Korea it's because we want to save the people from a brutal dictator. Um, making things worse isn't the answer. And it's our sanctioning that drove them to creating nuclear technology so they can live their way of life without interference from us. We should let them. But, we need them to stop pursuing nuclear weapons in return. Now if we want to save the people from a brutal dictator we should go to war against them or shut the fuck up. Half measures makes things worse.

I've had an awakening, a change of the way I think. And it's because of posters at this site.


----------



## Soupnazi630

Angelo said:


> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
Click to expand...

Much like in venezuela the death toll is squarely and exclusively on their government.

Socialism always fails and then tries to blame others for their failure but it is theirs they own it and caused it.

Sanctions did not and sanctions once again are the right of a sovereign nation they are not aggression


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro means ripe in Spanish.
> 
> As in ripe for overthrow.
> 
> 
> 
> In English it means world's largest oil reserve.
Click to expand...


And that stupid twat can't even produce a million barrels a day.


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro means ripe in Spanish.
> 
> As in ripe for overthrow.
> 
> 
> 
> In English it means world's largest oil reserve.
Click to expand...

And they're all starving to death. lol


----------



## the other mike

/;


Toddsterpatriot said:


> And that stupid twat can't even produce a million barrels a day.


And store it where ?


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> And they're all starving to death. lol


At least they have souls, unlike you and others like you. (lol)


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> And they're all starving to death. lol
> 
> 
> 
> At least they have souls, unlike you and others like you. (lol)
Click to expand...

They will if they overthrow the ripe one. lol


----------



## the other mike




----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Angelo said:


> Ironically, Reagan probably believed what he was saying--he was that naive. Reagan probably believed that he was a good man doing good things. He would not have even known that he was a war criminal.


Sort of like the way you ignore the people suffering in Venezuela right now. The people who must eat animals to survive. The people run down by armored vehicles driven by Meduro stooges. The people beaten, gassed, shot by those same stooges. The ones knocked down by fire hoses. 
The medicine, food and aid that is sent to Venezuela but taken away by Medoro lackeys while people die for lack of care.
This all seems to matters not to you.

That's why your crocodile tears you fake weep now are so empty and meaningless. You support one vicious killer criminal while you accuse another of crimes as well.


----------



## the other mike

*Eric Arthur Blair;
Sort of like the way you ignore the people suffering in Venezuela right now. The people who must eat animals to survive. The people run down by armored vehicles by Meduro stooges. The people beaten, gassed, shot by those same stooges. The ones knocked down by fire hoses. This all seems to matters not to you.

That's why your crocodile tears you fake weep now are so empty and meaningless. You support one vicious killer criminal while you accuse another of crimes as well.

*
Go start your own thread or kindly take your trolling elsewhere, Ghengis.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Angelo said:


> Go start your own thread or kindly take your trolling elsewhere, Ghengis.


Why not fuck yourself instead? My comments are perfectly appropriate for this thread. They are all supported by facts.
Why don't you go away instead, boot licking Meduro lackey?


----------



## the other mike

Hugo Chavez Still Venezuela’s Most Popular President, Says New Poll


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
Click to expand...


You need to look up the definition of "empire".  That is just one of several billion things you have wrong.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Sunni Man said:


> I have no doubt the CIA and other clandestine agencies are behind the coup taking place in Venezuela.   ...



You say that like it is a bad thing.


----------



## the other mike

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt the CIA and other clandestine agencies are behind the coup taking place in Venezuela.   ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say that like it is a bad thing.
Click to expand...

A big false flag is coming Assad-style,or maybe like Ukraine or Libya, watch and see.
Next will be Iran.


----------



## Aponi

Angelo said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
Click to expand...

Your not to smart the people there are doing it due to thier suffering and abuse by thier socialist goverment not ours


----------



## Aponi

Aponi said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your not to smart the people there are doing it due to thier suffering and abuse by thier socialist goverment not ours
Click to expand...


Why dont you move there and eat some rat meat and your dog


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Send in the Drones and put a bullet in his head.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what we were_ supposed _to do in 2002 in Afghanistan when Bush let his CIA-asset OBL escape to Pakistan , but we know the real reason for going wasn't 9/11--that was their false flag excuse.
Click to expand...


Please confine your conspiracy theories to the proper thread.. This is not it!  There are intelligent people here who know you are spreading bullshit.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Funny that Vlad Putin is the one who has convinced Meduro to stay the course even as his country disintegrates
from beneath him.
The EU and OAS have all called on Meduro to step down but the people who support him, here at least, are so reflexively anti American and Trump they would rather see Putin have his way, and the people of Venezuela suffer than see Trump vindicated in calling for Guiado to take control of this shattered nation.

Putin is doubling down of Maduro. You ignorant fascists are precipitating a military crisis even as you say you don't want one.

Fears Putin to prop up ANOTHER dictator as Russian troops land in Venezuela


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

beautress said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are fed up with Guaido thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you know King Charles III and his court were also fed up with General Washington's barefoot thugs.
Click to expand...


Charles III?  Who the heck is that?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Angelo said:


> Past your bedtime isn't it Captain Rock Hudson ?


Are you a Russian troll, by any chance? You are very ham fisted and clumsy at your job.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please confine your conspiracy theories to the proper thread.. This is not it!  There are intelligent people here who know you are spreading bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Past your bedtime isn't it Captain Rock Hudson ?
Click to expand...


Reported.  You just don't fucking listen.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

P F Tinmore said:


>



I could have sworn that posting videos without commentary was a TOS violation.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

P F Tinmore said:


>



The US did not do any of that damage in Libya and Syria.  You are a lying sack of excrement!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to look up the definition of "empire".  That is just one of several billion things you have wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


As stated before, posting videos without commentary is a TOS violation.  You want to get reported again?  Maybe you can get a nice vacation from yoru manure spreading!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please confine your conspiracy theories to the proper thread.. This is not it!  There are intelligent people here who know you are spreading bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Past your bedtime isn't it Captain Rock Hudson ?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reported.  You just don't fucking listen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I deem something relevant to my own thread, what business is it of yours to be nit-picky about the rules, Huckleberry ?
Click to expand...


You lie.  That is all anyone needs to know.  You get so confused you cite sources that disprove your own bizarre claims.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017



So?


----------



## the other mike

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> As stated before, posting videos without commentary is a TOS violation.  You want to get reported again?  Maybe you can get a nice vacation from yoru manure spreading!


No it isn't.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you take criticism by deflecting? eeeewwwwwwwww!
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
Click to expand...


Remove this post immediately.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You lie.  That is all anyone needs to know.  You get so confused you cite sources that disprove your own bizarre claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the orphanage teach you _any_ manners at all ?
Click to expand...


STFU douchebag!


----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
Click to expand...


So..... I'm confused by this.

You just posted a video of the government under Maduro, sending military troops operating in civilian setting, being used to mow down civilians who are rioting because the entire country has imploded, and there is no food, thanks to socialist policies.

And by the way, it was Chavez that made these changes to the law, to allow the politicization of the military, and allowed the military to be deployed in civilian areas.

The civil-military relations in the Venezuela of Chávez | GESI

Again, well documented.

Under the mandates of Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías, Venezuela experienced a series of profound social, political and economic transformations. After his election in 1998, a process of modification of civic-military relations and the role of the military in society began. During the first decade of the 21st century there was a notable politicization of the military and a militarization of civil society.​Hugo Chavez, like all socialist dictators, knew that society would fight back against socialism.   Thus Hugo planned long ago for this eventual result, and allowed the military to be made puppets of the state, and used in civilian settings.

And yet here you are, looking at the government slaughtering it's own people, after having disarmed them with gun-laws.... and all you can say is "There's nothing good about this for anyone" in reference to removing the abusive dictator Maduro?

I think everyone on that road being rolled over, might consider Maduro's removal to be a good result.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those who missed this.
Click to expand...


The only reason that anyone would miss that sack of lies is they have the other douchebag on ignore.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that - I always loved Abby Martin, even though her tone of voice and rants are a little annoying sometimes. On a side note, I've noticed that Al Jazeera has been doing some Guaido -propaganda- showing their true colors as well - and Telesur looks like all but shut down at this point , although I haven't been looking lately. So the people of Venezuela don't know where to turn at this point. Colombia and Brazil don't want them, so many are fleeing across there to Equador, Peru and Argentina.
Click to expand...


You are in desperate need of a map and education.


----------



## Andylusion

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please confine your conspiracy theories to the proper thread.. This is not it!  There are intelligent people here who know you are spreading bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Past your bedtime isn't it Captain Rock Hudson ?
Click to expand...




Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to look up the definition of "empire".  That is just one of several billion things you have wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


So this is a conspiracy thread?   Here I thought it might be something interesting.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another item bugs the shit out of me. Do Socialist countries fail because they are Socialist countries. Or do they fail because we Sanction them?
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus. Do some fucking research instead of believing our media and state propaganda for a change. *Sanctions are an act of war.
> Listen to someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about.
> *
Click to expand...


You are so full of shit.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Prominent Venezuelan sociologist and intellectual Edgardo Lander says while it’s correct to oppose U.S. intervention and interference, Left media should not minimize the responsibility of the Maduro government for the economic crisis..."
> 
> *Lander has some deep doubts about how Chavez chose to implement socialism in Venezuela:
> 
> Left Media Coverage of Venezuela Questioned
> *
> "EDGARDO LANDER: ... In the Venezuelan case, one of the severe problems that has led to the current crisis is the fact that the *Chavez government in the first place identified socialism with state control*, and many, many enterprises were nationalized and came under state control.
> 
> "So what happens?
> 
> "For the state, it became widespread in control of many, many, many activities, but it became weaker.
> 
> "It did not have the capacity to manage or deal with so many enterprises.
> 
> *"It gave priority to ideological purity over technical competence in leading these enterprises. *
> 
> "And as a consequence, a huge proportion—and when I mean huge, I mean the great, great majority of those corporations, or small companies, or whatever—went bankrupt, and they only subsisted, they only survived, as a consequence of money that was put on from the oil rent."
> 
> 
> 
> "Left media" being Democracy Now and TYT ? Wow a huge 1% swath of the American population .
Click to expand...


Who are they?  Fringe lunatic conspiracy nut websites?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
Click to expand...


Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from a brainwashed imbecile like you that's the ultimate compliment.
Click to expand...


You fail to recognize your own limits.  That is truly a mental health issue.  Seek treatment.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maduro means ripe in Spanish.
> 
> As in ripe for overthrow.
> 
> 
> 
> In English it means world's largest oil reserve.
Click to expand...


So?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are they?  Fringe lunatic conspiracy nut websites?
Click to expand...


That sign should be pointing at you. Even that is another pathetic mistake you have made.


----------



## the other mike

Admiral Glendale Pomeroy here wishes we would bomb the darkies.



 
It's the marikkkan way


----------



## the other mike

Stop going off topic.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Angelo said:


> Coming from a brainwashed imbecile like you that's the ultimate compliment.


Geez, Putin must you work you guys all day and night. You've been at this for hours. 
But I suppose furthering Vlad's grasp is all worth it to you fans of socialist dictators.


----------



## Kat

*Has this thread gone off topic, and turned to personal attacks? Why, yes, yes it has. Get on topic, and stop the personal attacks.*


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

It's the Meduro way.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Angelo said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> As stated before, posting videos without commentary is a TOS violation.  You want to get reported again?  Maybe you can get a nice vacation from your manure spreading!
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
Click to expand...


"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws."

"We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the Service at any time"

There you go!  Straight from the source!


----------



## BWK

Pete7469 said:


> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!


What commies?


----------



## BWK

basquebromance said:


> "Venezuela's socialist government is running over its citizens with armored military vehicles and socialists Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, and Bernie Sanders are all completely silent. All three of them have refused to denounce brutal socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro" - John Bolton


The only dictator is the one trying to get into office from a rigged election.


----------



## the other mike

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> "You agree ....


Dude, get a life.

*Opening Posts *require more than a Copy and Paste with a Link, You need to include relevant, on topic material of your own. 
USMB Rules and Guidelines


----------



## BWK

Sunni Man said:


> I have no doubt the CIA and other clandestine agencies are behind the coup taking place in Venezuela.   ...


Yep! We want the Gold, diamonds, and oil.


----------



## the other mike

Meanwhile, back on topic.


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....


The one you want will be a dictator if he gets in, and will cater to all the Oligarchs here, to extract, Gold, Diamonds, and oil. The people will be left as refugees in their own country when the US finishes with them. It's the same with almost every Central and S.A. country we invaded, without firing a shot for the last seventy five years.


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....
> 
> 
> 
> The one you want will be a dictator if he gets in, and will cater to all the Oligarchs here, to extract, Gold, Diamonds, and oil. The people will be left as refugees in their own country when the US finishes with them. It's the same with almost every Central and S.A. country we invaded, without firing a shot for the last seventy five years.
Click to expand...


Enjoy this great economy!!!!

thanks to Trump!!!


----------



## BWK

Angelo said:


> Meanwhile, back on topic.


They don't want us there, because they know why we want to be there. And the reasons have nothing to do with making life better for the Venezuelan people. They will end up the same way many of the countries to the south have ended up. poor, no jobs, and their resources snatched from them by the US. It's the same story for decades. We could give two shits in a bucket about those people.


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....
> 
> 
> 
> The one you want will be a dictator if he gets in, and will cater to all the Oligarchs here, to extract, Gold, Diamonds, and oil. The people will be left as refugees in their own country when the US finishes with them. It's the same with almost every Central and S.A. country we invaded, without firing a shot for the last seventy five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Enjoy this great economy!!!!
> 
> thanks to Trump!!!
> 
> View attachment 259611
Click to expand...




Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....
> 
> 
> 
> The one you want will be a dictator if he gets in, and will cater to all the Oligarchs here, to extract, Gold, Diamonds, and oil. The people will be left as refugees in their own country when the US finishes with them. It's the same with almost every Central and S.A. country we invaded, without firing a shot for the last seventy five years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Enjoy this great economy!!!!
> 
> thanks to Trump!!!
> 
> View attachment 259611
Click to expand...

No country enjoys having an organized criminal operation in charge. Only willful idiots cling to garbage like that.


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> No country enjoys having an organized criminal operation in charge. Only willful idiots cling to garbage like that


What organized criminal operation...do you mean like the Clinton foundation?....


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....


Republicans  don't stand for anything but themselves. As long as they got theirs, fuck everyone else. That's what freedom means to them.


----------



## the other mike

BWK said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, back on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't want us there, because they know why we want to be there. And the reasons have nothing to do with making life better for the Venezuelan people. They will end up the same way many of the countries to the south have ended up. poor, no jobs, and their resources snatched from them by the US. It's the same story for decades. We could give two shits in a bucket about those people.
Click to expand...

The difference is, now we know the truth and there's no excuse to allow our government to act as tyrants on our behalf.


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> No country enjoys having an organized criminal operation in charge. Only willful idiots cling to garbage like that
> 
> 
> 
> What organized criminal operation...do you mean like the Clinton foundation?....
Click to expand...

Trump has been exposed for criminal activity, and some of his goons have already gone to jail. He could be next.


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Republicans don't stand for anything but themselves. As long as they got theirs, fuck *everyone else*. That's what freedom means to them


Then why is *everyone else* doing so much better financially than just two years ago?....


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Trump has been exposed for criminal activity, and some of his goons have already gone to jail. He could be next.


When where???


----------



## BWK

Angelo said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, back on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't want us there, because they know why we want to be there. And the reasons have nothing to do with making life better for the Venezuelan people. They will end up the same way many of the countries to the south have ended up. poor, no jobs, and their resources snatched from them by the US. It's the same story for decades. We could give two shits in a bucket about those people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is, now we know the truth and there's no excuse to allow our government to act as tyrants on our behalf.
Click to expand...

Exactly! The cat has been out of that bag for a long time now, while many in the US call themselves real Americans. No one is anything but a common thug if they use their power to steal from others. Real American my ass. And if anyone supports military action in Venezuela, that's exactly what they are. They're nothing but criminal thugs.


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump has been exposed for criminal activity, and some of his goons have already gone to jail. He could be next.
> 
> 
> 
> When where???
Click to expand...

Stop pretending to be stupid and ignorant. We see too much of that from the Right every day. That game dried up a long time ago.


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Stop pretending to be stupid and ignorant. We see too much of that from the Right every day. That game dried up a long time ago.


You can't name one crime yet you refer to Trump as a criminal....who is being stupid?....


----------



## the other mike

Breaking News
*Mueller's report concluded that the American government interfered in the Venezuelan presidential election "in sweeping and systematic fashion" and that its efforts were designed to help Juan Guaido.*


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans don't stand for anything but themselves. As long as they got theirs, fuck *everyone else*. That's what freedom means to them
> 
> 
> 
> Then why is *everyone else* doing so much better financially than just two years ago?....
Click to expand...

Because of the Obama economy. You didn't think Trump was going to touch that baby did you? Remember after the great depression how things improved so much? It was a stimulus that started moving the economy then, just as it has done now. But, with almost two trillion going to tax cuts for the wealthy,  at the cost of added national debt,  we are just living off an expired credit card. Eventually the working poor won't be able to finance the 1%.


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop pretending to be stupid and ignorant. We see too much of that from the Right every day. That game dried up a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't name one crime yet you refer to Trump as a criminal....who is being stupid?....
Click to expand...

Lol! Obstruction of justice, proven. Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven. Creating a bogus illegal university, where he stole 40 million dollars from students and was charged a fine. Stealing money from his own charitable contribution where that money was supposed to go to kids with cancer. Trump isn't just a criminal, he's a damn monster and an evil human being.


----------



## BWK

Angelo said:


> Breaking News
> *Mueller's report concluded that the American government interfered in the Venezuelan presidential election "in sweeping and systematic fashion" and that its efforts were designed to help Juan Guaido.*


I wouldn't doubt it.


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Because of the Obama economy.


Trump and his team has made changes to economic policy for the last 2 and a half years...how on earth can you claim this is Obama's economy?....


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Lol! Obstruction of justice, proven


Where? when?....


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven


It was not campaign money...you lose....


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Creating a bogus illegal university, where he stole 40 million dollars from students and was charged a fine


Many graduates have gone on to be successful business men and women...there are always a few losers in every group....like you....


----------



## Andylusion

BWK said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans don't stand for anything but themselves. As long as they got theirs, fuck *everyone else*. That's what freedom means to them
> 
> 
> 
> Then why is *everyone else* doing so much better financially than just two years ago?....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because of the Obama economy. You didn't think Trump was going to touch that baby did you? Remember after the great depression how things improved so much? It was a stimulus that started moving the economy then, just as it has done now. But, with almost two trillion going to tax cuts for the wealthy,  at the cost of added national debt,  we are just living off an expired credit card. Eventually the working poor won't be able to finance the 1%.
Click to expand...


Obama's economic policies caused 2008.  Remember, he sued banks to force them to make sub-prime loans.   He even said in a video, that sub-prime loans were a good idea.

With landmark lawsuit, Barack Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago’s African-Americans

*Obama endorsed the national subprime policy, telling a Wall Street audience in September 2007 that “subprime lending started off as a good idea: Helping Americans buy homes who couldn’t previously afford to.”*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> /;
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that stupid twat can't even produce a million barrels a day.
> 
> 
> 
> And store it where ?
Click to expand...


Can't produce it, why worry about storing it?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Hugo Chavez Still Venezuela’s Most Popular President, Says New Poll



I guess people who have to eat garbage don't want to make it harder for themselves.


----------



## georgephillip

Aba Incieni said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
Click to expand...




Aba Incieni said:


> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.


Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia

"On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman). 

"Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims. 

"U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks. 

"The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]

"In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73] 

"White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."

*Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass. 




When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *


----------



## georgephillip

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
Click to expand...




Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?


*You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*

Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!

"More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot. 

"The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality. 

"We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"*
*




500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*


----------



## Soupnazi630

georgephillip said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
Click to expand...

No one is confused.

They caused no deaths.
Those governments caused the deaths.


----------



## JWBooth

RoshawnMarkwees said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s apparently easier to install a puppet regime in Venezuela in order to resume Venezuelan oil production than it is to get democrats in Oregon and California to cooperate.
Click to expand...

The only thing standing in the way of increased production  is US sanctions.


----------



## JWBooth

beautress said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflecting ?
> Did you learn a new word today ?
> Congratulations.
> View attachment 259186
> 
> 
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Especially the bar owners and prostitutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a beneath craven remark about America's heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heroes my ass, its an overused and inaccurate descriptor for every mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, near moron that ever believed a recruiter's lies and signed an enlistment contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are mistaken about America's brave military soldiers. Every one of them is called on to defend the Constitution of the United States. They are beacons of light in a dark world, and they put their lives on the line for YOU and the rest of us every day. Fortunately, the majority of American citizens are not cowards screaming anatomical obscenities from freedoms earned by the blood of America's brave and good military patriots, many of whom return to their families in a wooden box with a flag draped lovingly over what is left of their brave bodies that were killed when they defended your craven spiel by way of the First Amendment Rights against them.
Click to expand...

An example of the beneficence of those saintly troops.
US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'


----------



## georgephillip

Soupnazi630 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
Click to expand...




Soupnazi630 said:


> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.


*US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:

Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
*
"t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans. 

"That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation. 

"That was the utter collapse. 

"Oil earnings plummeted. 

"The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed. 

"That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control. 

*"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."




*


----------



## eagle1462010

georgephillip said:


> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
Click to expand...

Failed Super Socialism at it's best.   Destroyed a once great Nation......ending in more of a Dictatorship by the ones promising them the moon. 

Then the blame game on how it's everyone elses fault this happened.  LOL

They did this to themselves............They stole the Oil Equipment and rigs from other countries and big business..Then they were Too STUPID ON HOW TO MAINTAIN PRODUCTION........but that's the real side of the story defenders of SOCIALISM HAVE....................

And like this poster child for I hate America Pravda......Always bashing and blaming America for everything........They did this to themselves.................End of Story.


----------



## Biff_Poindexter

Rambunctious said:


> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....


There is way too much stupid in your comment.


----------



## beautress

JWBooth said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wherever there is a USA base, the locals prosper, and they prosper big time. Our soldiers are among the most generous people on earth, and we love 'em.    They give chocolate and toys to children there and buy stupid stuff from them so the children can take money home to mom and dad.
> 
> 
> 
> Especially the bar owners and prostitutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a beneath craven remark about America's heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heroes my ass, its an overused and inaccurate descriptor for every mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, near moron that ever believed a recruiter's lies and signed an enlistment contract.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are mistaken about America's brave military soldiers. Every one of them is called on to defend the Constitution of the United States. They are beacons of light in a dark world, and they put their lives on the line for YOU and the rest of us every day. Fortunately, the majority of American citizens are not cowards screaming anatomical obscenities from freedoms earned by the blood of America's brave and good military patriots, many of whom return to their families in a wooden box with a flag draped lovingly over what is left of their brave bodies that were killed when they defended your craven spiel by way of the First Amendment Rights against them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An example of the beneficence of those saintly troops.
> US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'
Click to expand...

The people you listed should never have enlisted. Their sport has one result, as explained in the article you posted:
*They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.*​How did you manage to miss that? Thanks for posting an article that easily convicted your case to death for your con job against a majority of selfless, brave, wonderful honorable men who populate the ranks. You can't touch them with the errors of the few.


----------



## beautress

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....
> 
> 
> 
> There is way too much stupid in your comment.
Click to expand...

That is a blatant lie.


----------



## JWBooth

beautress said:


> The people you listed should never have enlisted. Their sport has one result, as explained in the article you posted:
> *They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.*​How did you manage to miss that? Thanks for posting an article that easily convicted your case to death for your con job against a majority of selfless, brave, wonderful honorable men who populate the ranks. You can't touch them with the errors of the few.


 Nothing was missed. The possible outcome of trial and punishment was not sufficient to deter them from their acts. These are YOUR heroes.


----------



## basquebromance

who gives a shit about Vuvuzela. i put America first, America last, America only!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
Click to expand...


Are you still sad that the Berlin Wall came down?


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
Click to expand...

Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.

Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.


----------



## Rambunctious

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> We in America stand for freedom....Obama changed that to we stand for dictators and tyrants like Iran....but Trump is setting America back on course....we are returning to greatness....we once again stand for liberty and freedom....
> 
> 
> 
> There is way too much stupid in your comment.
Click to expand...

Really? like what?...maybe your anti American brain can't comprehend...maybe you should stretch the limits of you intellect and tell me what I said that is untrue...


----------



## caddo kid

Wow, the 'coup' in Venezuela sure is taking it's sweet time; six days & counting now.

Coups sure aint what they used to be.

I guess ole Guaido had to take a few naps & go to recess a few times. 

Don't hold your breath folks ........


----------



## georgephillip

Toddsterpatriot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you still sad that the Berlin Wall came down?
Click to expand...




Toddsterpatriot said:


> Are you still sad that the Berlin Wall came down?


Not since the Gipper croaked.
Are you still celebrating genocide?




The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

caddo kid said:


> Wow, the 'coup' in Venezuela sure is taking it's sweet time; six days & counting now.
> 
> Coups sure aint what they used to be.
> 
> I guess ole Guaido had to take a few naps & go to recess a few times.
> 
> Don't hold your breath folks ........


Sounds like you are happy and rooting for the socialist dictator that starves his people to death, runs them over with armored vehicles and won't give them any of the humanitarian aid sent to Venezuela.
Can't say I'm surprised. You seem like the sort of dick who likes dictators and gets a kick out of the misery of others.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

georgephillip said:


> Not since the Gipper croaked.
> Are you still celebrating genocide?


Are you still angry more nations in Central and South American didn't fall to the Communists?

Put some bag balm on it.


----------



## georgephillip

Aba Incieni said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.
Click to expand...




Aba Incieni said:


> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support


*Maybe you live long enough to comprehend the difference between hired killers and their victims*




Israel's shadowy role in Guatemala's dirty war

"Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona. 

"'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.' 

"Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."

The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

georgephillip said:


> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US


Says a leftist political science professor, not surprisingly.


----------



## caddo kid

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> caddo kid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, the 'coup' in Venezuela sure is taking it's sweet time; six days & counting now.
> 
> Coups sure aint what they used to be.
> 
> I guess ole Guaido had to take a few naps & go to recess a few times.
> 
> Don't hold your breath folks ........
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are happy and rooting for the socialist dictator that starves his people to death, runs them over with armored vehicles and won't give them any of the humanitarian aid sent to Venezuela.
> Can't say I'm surprised. You seem like the sort of dick who likes dictators and gets a kick out of the misery of others.
Click to expand...



Well hot shot; since you're such a fucking tuff guy, why don't you just volunteer your big fat  ass to go down there right now & save the  day for Venezuela? We're waiting.
I'm sure they would love to have you come down to Venezuela & hold Guaido's hand.


----------



## georgephillip

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not since the Gipper croaked.
> Are you still celebrating genocide?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still angry more nations in Central and South American didn't fall to the Communists?
> 
> Put some bag balm on it.
Click to expand...




Eric Arthur Blair said:


> re you still angry more nations in Central and South American didn't fall to the Communists?
> 
> Put some bag balm on it


Apparently you're still ignorant of the fact that a majority of Central Americans preferred democratic socialism to the rule of rich oligarchs who depended on US support for their corrupt administrations.





Maybe you should read more?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

caddo kid said:


> Well hot shot; since you're such a fucking tuff guy, why don't you just volunteer your big fat ass to go down there right now & save the day for Venezuela? We're waiting.
> I'm sure they would love to have you come down to Venezuela & hold Guaido's hand.


Wow! Did I hit a nerve when I pointed out what a sick cretin you are for rooting on the grip socialist butcher Maduro has on the nation he has turned into a nightmare shit hole?

Looks like I did.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

georgephillip said:


> Apparently you're still ignorant of the fact that a majority of Central Americans preferred democratic socialism to the rule of rich oligarchs who depended on US support for their corrupt administrations.


What a sorry apologist you are trying to morph communism into "democratic socialism" in order to dishonestly
sugar coat what was going on during the Cold War. Pathetic!
Do you think Cuba is a democratic socialist nations too?


----------



## caddo kid

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> caddo kid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well hot shot; since you're such a fucking tuff guy, why don't you just volunteer your big fat ass to go down there right now & save the day for Venezuela? We're waiting.
> I'm sure they would love to have you come down to Venezuela & hold Guaido's hand.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! Did I hit a nerve when I pointed out what a sick cretin you are for rooting on the grip socialist butcher Maduro has on the nation he has turned into a nightmare shit hole?
> 
> Looks like I did.
Click to expand...



Like I said; you wanna go & save Venezuela then knock yourself out there Superman.

Go sign up for Uncle Sam's military & tell them you wanna go shoot up commies down in Venezuela.

When you get back you can tell US all how you got a neat thrill from it all!!


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

caddo kid said:


> Like I said; you wanna go & save Venezuela then knock yourself out there Superman.
> 
> Go sign up for Uncle Sam's military & tell them you wanna go shoot up commies down in Venezuela.
> 
> When you get back you can tell US all how you got a neat thrill from it all!!


I know what you said. I remember the bullshit fest you spewed out.

Here's my deal, imbecile......I'll join the army so I can fight in a war we aren't having when you wedge your fat ass in an Venezuelan armored carrier and go on duty running over crowds of starving angry Venezuelan citizens who just want their nation back from a butcher and Putin lackey like Nicolas Maduro. You know, the guy you seem to admire and support.  

How about that, shit for brains?


----------



## caddo kid

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> caddo kid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said; you wanna go & save Venezuela then knock yourself out there Superman.
> 
> Go sign up for Uncle Sam's military & tell them you wanna go shoot up commies down in Venezuela.
> 
> When you get back you can tell US all how you got a neat thrill from it all!!
> 
> 
> 
> I know what you said. I remember the bullshit fest you spewed out.
> 
> Here's my deal, imbecile......I'll join the army so I can fight in a war we aren't having when you wedge your fat ass in an Venezuelan armored carrier and go on duty running over crowds of starving angry Venezuelan citizens who just want their nation back from a butcher and Putin lackey like Nicolas Maduro. You know, the guy you seem to admire and support.
> 
> How about that, shit for brains?
Click to expand...



I had an uncle that 'passed away' in Maracaibo, Zulia, Venezuela, in March, 1984. 
He was 57 years of age at the time of his death & of course, a US citizen.
Guess what my uncle was doing down there in Venezuela?
His family won't tell you, the government won't tell you, no one will tell you. Yep.

Just in case you haven't noticed, Venezuela didn't just become a shit hole over night.
You might wanna go back & review the history of the nation a bit, get up to speed.
Good luck down there cowboy .......


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commies are still mad because we won the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Maybe you live long enough to comprehend the difference between hired killers and their victims*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's shadowy role in Guatemala's dirty war
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
Click to expand...

Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

caddo kid said:


> I had an uncle that 'passed away' in Maracaibo, Zulia, Venezuela, in March, 1984.
> He was 57 years of age at the time of his death & of course, a US citizen.
> Guess what my uncle was doing down there in Venezuela?
> His family won't tell you, the government won't tell you, no one will tell you. Yep.


Great story.



> Just in case you haven't noticed, Venezuela didn't just become a shit hole over night.
> You might wanna go back & review the history of the nation a bit, get up to speed.
> Good luck down there cowboy .......


It's a shit hole now and you seem to like it.
You should move there, loser.


----------



## caddo kid

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> caddo kid said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had an uncle that 'passed away' in Maracaibo, Zulia, Venezuela, in March, 1984.
> He was 57 years of age at the time of his death & of course, a US citizen.
> Guess what my uncle was doing down there in Venezuela?
> His family won't tell you, the government won't tell you, no one will tell you. Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> Great story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just in case you haven't noticed, Venezuela didn't just become a shit hole over night.
> You might wanna go back & review the history of the nation a bit, get up to speed.
> Good luck down there cowboy .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a shit hole now and you seem to like it.
> You should move there, loser.
Click to expand...



seems you are the one that is so concerned about YOUR beloved Venezuela

I'm thinking you must be the one with the  plane ticket for Caracas 

LOFL ...........


----------



## RoshawnMarkwees

JWBooth said:


> RoshawnMarkwees said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s apparently easier to install a puppet regime in Venezuela in order to resume Venezuelan oil production than it is to get democrats in Oregon and California to cooperate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only thing standing in the way of increased production  is US sanctions.
Click to expand...

And the democrat govs of OR and CA.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

caddo kid said:


> seems you are the one that is so concerned about YOUR beloved Venezuela
> 
> I'm thinking you must be the one with the plane ticket for Caracas
> 
> LOFL ...........


I "love" Venezuela as much as all the members of the EU and OAS (who all call for Maduro the butcher to step down).

No need to stretch your overworked little mind out of shape trying to figure a way you can demonize my position on Venezuela. Your friend Vlad Putin (he must be your friend since he wants to prop up the butcher) is the only thing keeping the socialist government of Maduro standing.
He's a socialist authoritarian dictator (like Vlad) and he's bad for all the states in the region. With a puppet government in Venezuela all states there are in danger of destabilization and Putin's reach will be that much greater.

But on top of that there are all the humanitarian considerations which I know you really don't care about. You are the one in favor of a brutal dictatorship, after all. Don't worry about why I think Venezuela is worth saving. I have many good reasons one of those being you want the opposite outcome and to see the nation stay miserable and starving to death. 

Think about that while you are sucking Danny Glover's penis.


----------



## The Original Tree

*Pay no attention to THE OP who is a RUSSIAN TROLL.  Go search his post history.  He is opposed to anything that benefits America, and is for anything that benefits Russia, and places like CUBA and other Totalitarian States which Russia is involved in.*


----------



## MisterBeale

*The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US*
The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US

". . . . Knowing as well that Trump did not give a farthing for what happened in Venezuela but was concentrated on what he is always focused on, domestic politics, I knew these underlings would be allowed to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war in Venezuela so long as doing it secured Florida’s electoral votes for Trump in 2020.

What I did not know – but looking back to 2002, should have – is how utterly incompetent the CIA would be in pulling off the “soft coup d’etat” that its leaders promised Trump. The events of the past 48 hours have demonstrated that incompetence markedly, as well as the real motivations of Trump’s lackeys on Venezuela, from the shrimp-lusting-after-Cuba Marco Rubio to the bombastic former governor of Florida Rick Scott, to the pardoned criminal Abrams, to the supine and totally incompetent Juan Guaido and his backer, Leopoldo Lopez in Caracas. What a crew the GOP can muster!

And they just might have let slip the dogs of war.

And they let them slip into a potentially first-class disaster – just like Somalia in 1992, Iraq in 2003, Libya in 2011, Syria in 2012, Afghanistan today and yesterday, and on and on.




Venezuelan military. (Telesur)

I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "


*Larry Wilkerson is a retired colonel, U.S. Army (ret.), and former Chief of Staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.*


----------



## caddo kid

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> caddo kid said:
> 
> 
> 
> seems you are the one that is so concerned about YOUR beloved Venezuela
> 
> I'm thinking you must be the one with the plane ticket for Caracas
> 
> LOFL ...........
> 
> 
> 
> I "love" Venezuela as much as all the members of the EU and OAS (who all call for Maduro the butcher to step down).
> 
> No need to stretch your overworked little mind out of shape trying to figure a way you can demonize my position on Venezuela. _*Your friend Vlad Putin *_(he must be your friend since he wants to prop up the butcher) is the only thing keeping the socialist government of Maduro standing.
> He's a socialist authoritarian dictator (like Vlad) and he's bad for all the states in the region. With a puppet government in Venezuela all states there are in danger of destabilization and Putin's reach will be that much greater.
> 
> But on top of that there are all the humanitarian considerations which I know you really don't care about. You are the one in favor of a brutal dictatorship, after all. Don't worry about why I think Venezuela is worth saving. I have many good reasons one of those being you want the opposite outcome and to see the nation stay miserable and starving to death.
> 
> Think about that while you are sucking Danny Glover's penis.
Click to expand...


Putin? That is Trump's  butt buddy; they are BFF. Didn't you know? LOFL .......

How would you know anything about Danny Glover's penis?
You should keep your fantasies off the forum Mr. Ruby Lipps. LOFL ........


----------



## Aba Incieni

MisterBeale said:


> *The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US*
> The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US
> 
> ". . . . Knowing as well that Trump did not give a farthing for what happened in Venezuela but was concentrated on what he is always focused on, domestic politics, I knew these underlings would be allowed to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war in Venezuela so long as doing it secured Florida’s electoral votes for Trump in 2020.
> 
> What I did not know – but looking back to 2002, should have – is how utterly incompetent the CIA would be in pulling off the “soft coup d’etat” that its leaders promised Trump. The events of the past 48 hours have demonstrated that incompetence markedly, as well as the real motivations of Trump’s lackeys on Venezuela, from the shrimp-lusting-after-Cuba Marco Rubio to the bombastic former governor of Florida Rick Scott, to the pardoned criminal Abrams, to the supine and totally incompetent Juan Guaido and his backer, Leopoldo Lopez in Caracas. What a crew the GOP can muster!
> 
> And they just might have let slip the dogs of war.
> 
> And they let them slip into a potentially first-class disaster – just like Somalia in 1992, Iraq in 2003, Libya in 2011, Syria in 2012, Afghanistan today and yesterday, and on and on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuelan military. (Telesur)
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> *Larry Wilkerson is a retired colonel, U.S. Army (ret.), and former Chief of Staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.*


The tragedy of Venezuela is that they voted in a Socialist who promptly sank the most successful economy in South America, and took away their guns so all they had was rocks to throw at armored vehicles.

Maybe Trump should send them pallets full of unmarked cash in the middle of the night.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

caddo kid said:


> Putin? That is Trump's butt buddy; they are BFF. Didn't you know?


Nobody "knows" that. It's a lie you like to perpetuate. You are the one all for helping Putin get his way, so fuck off!



> How would you know anything about Danny Glover's penis?
> You should keep your fantasies off the forum Mr. Ruby Lipps..


I know he has one and he's a big fan of socialist
governments like the one in Venezuela. By supporting Maduro the butcher and Vlad Putin you are doing Danny a big favor and it's as if you are sucking his dick! You might as well be and you love it
or else you wouldn't be such a lackey for a dictator.


----------



## Grumblenuts

MisterBeale said:


> What I did not know – but looking back to 2002, should have – is how utterly incompetent the CIA would be in pulling off the “soft coup d’etat” that its leaders promised Trump. The events of the past 48 hours have demonstrated that incompetence markedly, as well as the real motivations of Trump’s lackeys on Venezuela, from the shrimp-lusting-after-Cuba Marco Rubio to the bombastic former governor of Florida Rick Scott, to the pardoned criminal Abrams, to the supine and totally incompetent Juan Guaido and his backer, Leopoldo Lopez in Caracas. What a crew the GOP can muster!


You left out the main pirates: Koch Bros. and Canada's disgusting tar sand interests.


----------



## MisterBeale

Aba Incieni said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US*
> The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US
> 
> ". . . . Knowing as well that Trump did not give a farthing for what happened in Venezuela but was concentrated on what he is always focused on, domestic politics, I knew these underlings would be allowed to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war in Venezuela so long as doing it secured Florida’s electoral votes for Trump in 2020.
> 
> What I did not know – but looking back to 2002, should have – is how utterly incompetent the CIA would be in pulling off the “soft coup d’etat” that its leaders promised Trump. The events of the past 48 hours have demonstrated that incompetence markedly, as well as the real motivations of Trump’s lackeys on Venezuela, from the shrimp-lusting-after-Cuba Marco Rubio to the bombastic former governor of Florida Rick Scott, to the pardoned criminal Abrams, to the supine and totally incompetent Juan Guaido and his backer, Leopoldo Lopez in Caracas. What a crew the GOP can muster!
> 
> And they just might have let slip the dogs of war.
> 
> And they let them slip into a potentially first-class disaster – just like Somalia in 1992, Iraq in 2003, Libya in 2011, Syria in 2012, Afghanistan today and yesterday, and on and on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuelan military. (Telesur)
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> *Larry Wilkerson is a retired colonel, U.S. Army (ret.), and former Chief of Staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.*
> 
> 
> 
> The tragedy of Venezuela is that they voted in a Socialist who promptly sank the most successful economy in South America, and took away their guns so all they had was rocks to throw at armored vehicles.
> 
> Maybe Trump should send them pallets full of unmarked cash in the middle of the night.
Click to expand...


You know, I have looked all over the internet to find out if it was Chavez, Maduro, or the legislature that banned guns.  I can't find that move anywhere.

Every report I get is just, "the government banned civilian ownership of guns. . "




PROVE that the people's representatives, like the ones in Australia, didn't do that to themselves.


SECOND, the Venezuelan economy was only working for the richest 10 percent of all of the nation.  It didn't do anything for the poor and middle class.

All indices of development, from infant mortality, to literacy, to percentage of poverty have all risen since the advent of Chavezism. What does it matter how the economy works if the nation, the majority, is poor, starving, dying and suffering?  What do they care?

Why do you think Maduro won the election by a larger margin, has more support than Trump, and the PM's of France, Britain, or Germany? . .  . or just about any other nation you care to name.

It is NOT up to us to interfere in their internal politics.  If Venuezuala was allowed to trade with the rest of the world, I am sure they would have no trouble.  But they are defying the IMF, the world bank, and the globalist business cabal.






How did Venezuela change under Hugo Chávez?

The Roots of Venezuela's Economic Crisis


----------



## OldLady

Angelo said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I usually say we should mind our own business, but if we don't take control of Venezuela China, Russia, or Iran will. Isolation policy would have us surrounded by our enemies. Only thing left is the military option. We need to take Maduro out.
> 
> 
> 
> That's been our excuse for decades.
> "If we don't screw them over Russia will. "
> It doesn't fly anymore Skippy.
> The cat's out of the bag and the world's watching.
Click to expand...

Russia and China are there buddying up to Maduro.  He's broke, desperate.  It is easy to imagine this becoming a puppet state to one of them.  We don't want them in this neighborhood.


----------



## MisterBeale

Grumblenuts said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I did not know – but looking back to 2002, should have – is how utterly incompetent the CIA would be in pulling off the “soft coup d’etat” that its leaders promised Trump. The events of the past 48 hours have demonstrated that incompetence markedly, as well as the real motivations of Trump’s lackeys on Venezuela, from the shrimp-lusting-after-Cuba Marco Rubio to the bombastic former governor of Florida Rick Scott, to the pardoned criminal Abrams, to the supine and totally incompetent Juan Guaido and his backer, Leopoldo Lopez in Caracas. What a crew the GOP can muster!
> 
> 
> 
> You left out the main pirates: Koch Bros. and Canada's disgusting tar sand interests.
Click to expand...


Greg Palast is an excellent investigative reporter.  He is not beholden to any corporate interest. 

He basically did a really good job summing up the elite classes butt hurt over losing control in Venezuela.  The elite classes are the ones that can trace their ancestry most directly back to Spanish Colonial Control.

Look at the two sides we are talking about. . . .

*In Venezuela, White Supremacy is a Key to Trump’s Coup*
In Venezuela, White Supremacy is a Key to Trump's Coup

". . . . First, we have Juan Guaidó, self-proclaimed (and Trump-proclaimed) president of the nation, with his wife and child, a photo prominently placed in _The New York Times_.






Next, the class photo of Guaidó’s party members in the National Assembly, white as snow…






…especially when compared to their political opposites in the third photo, the congress members who support the elected President Nicolás Maduro. The Maduro supporters are nearly all of a darker hue.






This is the story of Venezuela in black and white, the story not told in _The New York Times_ nor the rest of our establishment media. This year’s so-called popular uprising is, at its heart, a furious backlash of the whiter (and wealthier) Venezuelans against their replacement by the larger Mestizo (mixed-race) poor.. . . . "



This is why we often hear from folks here on USMB, "I am from Venezuela, or I heard from someone down there. . . etc."  Notice they are always fluent in English?  Notice they always have enough privilege to be able to talk with someone in the states?  

No one every even questions the narrative that the richest and most privileged Venezuelans OF COURSE do not like the government down there taking away their privilege and destroying a system that only favors the top five percent or so. . . 

It is their nation.  I can't imagine why we would interfere with free and fair elections.  Only the brain washed would tolerate such a thing.


----------



## MisterBeale

OldLady said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I usually say we should mind our own business, but if we don't take control of Venezuela China, Russia, or Iran will. Isolation policy would have us surrounded by our enemies. Only thing left is the military option. We need to take Maduro out.
> 
> 
> 
> That's been our excuse for decades.
> "If we don't screw them over Russia will. "
> It doesn't fly anymore Skippy.
> The cat's out of the bag and the world's watching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia and China are there buddying up to Maduro.  He's broke, desperate.  It is easy to imagine this becoming a puppet state to one of them.  We don't want them in this neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Why do you always just believe what ever that corporate TEE VEE tell you?


----------



## OldLady

MisterBeale said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I usually say we should mind our own business, but if we don't take control of Venezuela China, Russia, or Iran will. Isolation policy would have us surrounded by our enemies. Only thing left is the military option. We need to take Maduro out.
> 
> 
> 
> That's been our excuse for decades.
> "If we don't screw them over Russia will. "
> It doesn't fly anymore Skippy.
> The cat's out of the bag and the world's watching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russia and China are there buddying up to Maduro.  He's broke, desperate.  It is easy to imagine this becoming a puppet state to one of them.  We don't want them in this neighborhood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you always just believe what ever that corporate TEE VEE tell you?
Click to expand...

Looking at this situation through the prism of class warfare does not make my view invalid, either.


----------



## Aba Incieni

MisterBeale said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US*
> The Tragedy of Venezuela is the Tragedy of the US
> 
> ". . . . Knowing as well that Trump did not give a farthing for what happened in Venezuela but was concentrated on what he is always focused on, domestic politics, I knew these underlings would be allowed to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war in Venezuela so long as doing it secured Florida’s electoral votes for Trump in 2020.
> 
> What I did not know – but looking back to 2002, should have – is how utterly incompetent the CIA would be in pulling off the “soft coup d’etat” that its leaders promised Trump. The events of the past 48 hours have demonstrated that incompetence markedly, as well as the real motivations of Trump’s lackeys on Venezuela, from the shrimp-lusting-after-Cuba Marco Rubio to the bombastic former governor of Florida Rick Scott, to the pardoned criminal Abrams, to the supine and totally incompetent Juan Guaido and his backer, Leopoldo Lopez in Caracas. What a crew the GOP can muster!
> 
> And they just might have let slip the dogs of war.
> 
> And they let them slip into a potentially first-class disaster – just like Somalia in 1992, Iraq in 2003, Libya in 2011, Syria in 2012, Afghanistan today and yesterday, and on and on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuelan military. (Telesur)
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> *Larry Wilkerson is a retired colonel, U.S. Army (ret.), and former Chief of Staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.*
> 
> 
> 
> The tragedy of Venezuela is that they voted in a Socialist who promptly sank the most successful economy in South America, and took away their guns so all they had was rocks to throw at armored vehicles.
> 
> Maybe Trump should send them pallets full of unmarked cash in the middle of the night.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I have looked all over the internet to find out if it was Chavez, Maduro, or the legislature that banned guns.  I can't find that move anywhere.
> 
> Every report I get is just, "the government banned civilian ownership of guns. . "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PROVE that the people's representatives, like the ones in Australia, didn't do that to themselves.
> 
> 
> SECOND, the Venezuelan economy was only working for the richest 10 percent of all of the nation.  It didn't do anything for the poor and middle class.
> 
> All indices of development, from infant mortality, to literacy, to percentage of poverty have all risen since the advent of Chavezism. What does it matter how the economy works if the nation, the majority, is poor, starving, dying and suffering?  What do they care?
> 
> Why do you think Maduro won the election by a larger margin, has more support than Trump, and the PM's of France, Britain, or Germany? . .  . or just about any other nation you care to name.
> 
> It is NOT up to us to interfere in their internal politics.  If Venuezuala was allowed to trade with the rest of the world, I am sure they would have no trouble.  But they are defying the IMF, the world bank, and the globalist business cabal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did Venezuela change under Hugo Chávez?
> 
> The Roots of Venezuela's Economic Crisis
Click to expand...

One search was all it took.

Venezuela bans private gun owners
Another gun ban, another bad outcome: Venezuela homicide rate rose after 2012 ban on private ownership of guns - Crime Prevention Research Center
https://truthmegasite.com/venezuela-bans-private-gun-ownership/
Venezuela: Chavez Bans Gun Ownership And Firearms Sales – OpEd
Venezuela bans civilians from private gun ownership


----------



## Aletheia4u

caddo kid said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> caddo kid said:
> 
> 
> 
> seems you are the one that is so concerned about YOUR beloved Venezuela
> 
> I'm thinking you must be the one with the plane ticket for Caracas
> 
> LOFL ...........
> 
> 
> 
> I "love" Venezuela as much as all the members of the EU and OAS (who all call for Maduro the butcher to step down).
> 
> No need to stretch your overworked little mind out of shape trying to figure a way you can demonize my position on Venezuela. _*Your friend Vlad Putin *_(he must be your friend since he wants to prop up the butcher) is the only thing keeping the socialist government of Maduro standing.
> He's a socialist authoritarian dictator (like Vlad) and he's bad for all the states in the region. With a puppet government in Venezuela all states there are in danger of destabilization and Putin's reach will be that much greater.
> 
> But on top of that there are all the humanitarian considerations which I know you really don't care about. You are the one in favor of a brutal dictatorship, after all. Don't worry about why I think Venezuela is worth saving. I have many good reasons one of those being you want the opposite outcome and to see the nation stay miserable and starving to death.
> 
> Think about that while you are sucking Danny Glover's penis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Putin? That is Trump's  butt buddy; they are BFF. Didn't you know? LOFL .......
> 
> How would you know anything about Danny Glover's penis?
> You should keep your fantasies off the forum Mr. Ruby Lipps. LOFL ........
Click to expand...

Because the Globalist are afraid if Pres.Trump joins forces with Putin. Doesn't means that we should hate Putin. The Globalist just wants to harvest organs.


----------



## Soupnazi630

JWBooth said:


> RoshawnMarkwees said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s apparently easier to install a puppet regime in Venezuela in order to resume Venezuelan oil production than it is to get democrats in Oregon and California to cooperate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only thing standing in the way of increased production  is US sanctions.
Click to expand...

Wrong.
It is the failed socialist government standing in the way


----------



## Soupnazi630

georgephillip said:


> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions are the right of a sovereign nation they are not an act of war.
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
Click to expand...

No it was not sanctions

It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "


The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.


----------



## Grumblenuts

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.


Your warmongering brain perhaps experiencing withdrawal symptoms including flatulent hallucinations.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> This is why we often hear from folks here on USMB, "I am from Venezuela, or I heard from someone down there. . . etc." Notice they are always fluent in English? Notice they always have enough privilege to be able to talk with someone in the states?
> 
> No one every even questions the narrative that the richest and most privileged Venezuelans OF COURSE do not like the government down there taking away their privilege and destroying a system that only favors the top five percent or so. . .


How do like your mass starvation and hyperinflation as Venezuela free falls into chaos? 
Chalk up another socialist nation that uses authoritarian despotic rule to justify it's criminal actions. Your racist appeals
to prejudice only makes your case all the more cowardly and disgusting. 




> It is their nation. I can't imagine why we would interfere with free and fair elections. Only the brain washed would tolerate such a thing.


Perhaps you could imagine why people would want to interfere with elections that were rigged and crooked from the start if you looked around just a bit and weren't so dishonest and playing your _"Gee, why would people do that_?" game. 
You are transparently playing games with the truth. 

Venezuela's Maduro Wins Boycotted Elections Amid Charges Of Fraud


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Grumblenuts said:


> Your warmongering brain perhaps experiencing withdrawal symptoms including flatulent hallucinations.


Absurd and imbecilic even by troll standards.


----------



## georgephillip

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> 
> 
> 
> Says a leftist political science professor, not surprisingly.
Click to expand...




Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Says a leftist political science professor, not surprisingly.


*Who would you consider a credible source on this topic?



*
"As courts, law enforcement, and the Trump administration continue to sort out what to do with the steady stream of migrants either crossing the southern border illegally or seeking asylum, the roots of the current misery are often forgotten. 

"The desperate border-crossers often come from Central America’s 'Northern Triangle'—El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras—and are fleeing high homicide rates and violence in those countries. 

"But this instability did not arise in a vacuum. 

"Many historians and policy experts are quick to point out that much of the troubles in Central America were created or at least helped by the US’s interference in those countries going back decades. 

*"In other words, the foreign policy of the past has profoundly shaped the present immigration crisis.*

The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> 
> 
> 
> Says a leftist political science professor, not surprisingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says a leftist political science professor, not surprisingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Who would you consider a credible source on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> *
> "As courts, law enforcement, and the Trump administration continue to sort out what to do with the steady stream of migrants either crossing the southern border illegally or seeking asylum, the roots of the current misery are often forgotten.
> 
> "The desperate border-crossers often come from Central America’s 'Northern Triangle'—El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras—and are fleeing high homicide rates and violence in those countries.
> 
> "But this instability did not arise in a vacuum.
> 
> "Many historians and policy experts are quick to point out that much of the troubles in Central America were created or at least helped by the US’s interference in those countries going back decades.
> 
> *"In other words, the foreign policy of the past has profoundly shaped the present immigration crisis.*
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
Click to expand...

You don't see them fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.


----------



## georgephillip

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you're still ignorant of the fact that a majority of Central Americans preferred democratic socialism to the rule of rich oligarchs who depended on US support for their corrupt administrations.
> 
> 
> 
> What a sorry apologist you are trying to morph communism into "democratic socialism" in order to dishonestly
> sugar coat what was going on during the Cold War. Pathetic!
> Do you think Cuba is a democratic socialist nations too?
Click to expand...




Eric Arthur Blair said:


> What a sorry apologist you are trying to morph communism into "democratic socialism" in order to dishonestly
> sugar coat what was going on during the Cold War. Pathetic!
> Do you think Cuba is a democratic socialist nations too?


Socialism is when the means of production is owned by society which, up to this point, has meant government ownership. Communism is when the state is abolished and the means of production are owned in common by the people. Democratic socialism has multiple meanings, but perhaps the best example today involves bringing democracy to the work place.




The Worker Self-Directed Enterprise: A "Cure" for Capitalism?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

georgephillip said:


> Socialism is when the means of production is owned by society which, up to this point, has meant government ownership. Communism is when the state is abolished and the means of production are owned in common by the people. Democratic socialism has multiple meanings, but perhaps the best example today involves bringing democracy to the work place.


That's not an answer, cockroach.


----------



## Grumblenuts

The Atlantic Illustrates Everything That’s Wrong With Media Coverage of Venezuela Sanctions


----------



## georgephillip

Aba Incieni said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean some Americans (like you claim to be )are in denial of own own past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Maybe you live long enough to comprehend the difference between hired killers and their victims*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's shadowy role in Guatemala's dirty war
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
Click to expand...




Aba Incieni said:


> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.


*May you sleep with the (red) octopus*




"In the 1950s, Guatemala attempted to end exploitative labor practices and give land to Mayan Indians in the highlands. 

"The move, according to now-unclassified CIA documents, threatened US interests like the United Fruit Company, which controlled a good portion of land in Guatemala. 

"But instead of citing economic factors, many in the US cried 'communism,' saying the labor reforms were a threat to democracy. 

*"Wisconsin Senator Alexander Wiley, chair of the Foreign Relations Committee at the time, said he believed that a 'Communist octopus' had used its tentacles to control events in Guatemala. *

"In 1954, the CIA helped organize a military coup to overthrow Guatemala’s democratically elected government, and continued to train the Guatemalan military well into the 70s."


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Ortega, via Castro and Russia, was trying to spread communism throughout Central America. The death squads were fighting them, along with the Contras in Honduras.
> 
> When the commies got their asses kicked they ran to SoCal and formed the MaraSalvatrucha, MS13.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Maybe you live long enough to comprehend the difference between hired killers and their victims*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's shadowy role in Guatemala's dirty war
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *May you sleep with the (red) octopus*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In the 1950s, Guatemala attempted to end exploitative labor practices and give land to Mayan Indians in the highlands.
> 
> "The move, according to now-unclassified CIA documents, threatened US interests like the United Fruit Company, which controlled a good portion of land in Guatemala.
> 
> "But instead of citing economic factors, many in the US cried 'communism,' saying the labor reforms were a threat to democracy.
> 
> *"Wisconsin Senator Alexander Wiley, chair of the Foreign Relations Committee at the time, said he believed that a 'Communist octopus' had used its tentacles to control events in Guatemala. *
> 
> "In 1954, the CIA helped organize a military coup to overthrow Guatemala’s democratically elected government, and continued to train the Guatemalan military well into the 70s."
Click to expand...

Poor dodge. They still aren't fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.

Or Nicaragua, for that matter.


----------



## georgephillip

Soupnazi630 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So don't call it war.
> Call it a deliberate act of aggression against the population of a sovereign nation.
> The death toll is still the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
Click to expand...




Soupnazi630 said:


> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.


*Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:




"Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*


----------



## Soupnazi630

georgephillip said:


> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
Click to expand...

Wrong.

They are legal and the biggest problem is the evil socialist government starving their people.

Then claim we caused their problem is a proven outright lie.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths?  Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die?  How is that possible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do sanction cause deaths? Not allowing the import of products from or ale of American goods to those countries causes people to die? How is that possible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
Click to expand...


Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?


----------



## georgephillip

Aba Incieni said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Salvadoran Civil War - Wikipedia
> 
> "On December 2, 1980, members of the Salvadoran National Guard were suspected to have raped and murdered four American, Catholic church women (three religious women, or nuns, and a laywoman).
> 
> "Maryknoll missionary sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline sister Dorothy Kazel, and laywoman Jean Donovan were on a Catholic relief mission providing food, shelter, transport, medical care, and burial to death squad victims.
> 
> "U.S. military aid was briefly cut off in response to the murders but would be renewed within six weeks.
> 
> "The outgoing Carter administration increased military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces to $10 million which included $5 million in rifles, ammunition, grenades and helicopters.[73]
> 
> "In justifying these arms shipments, the administration claimed that the regime had taken 'positive steps' to investigate the murder of four American nuns, but this was disputed by US Ambassador, Robert E. White, who said that he could find no evidence the junta was 'conducting a serious investigation.' [73]
> 
> "White was dismissed from the foreign service by the Reagan Administration after he had refused to participate in a coverup of the Salvadoran military's responsibility for the murders at the behest of Secretary of State Alexander Haig."
> 
> *Asylum seekers fled US-supported death squad violence like this and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero which occurred while he was delivering Mass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the migrants arrived in Los Angeles they were preyed upon by local gangs. MS-13 began as collective defense against US gangs. As usual the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World blames its victims. *
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Maybe you live long enough to comprehend the difference between hired killers and their victims*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's shadowy role in Guatemala's dirty war
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *May you sleep with the (red) octopus*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In the 1950s, Guatemala attempted to end exploitative labor practices and give land to Mayan Indians in the highlands.
> 
> "The move, according to now-unclassified CIA documents, threatened US interests like the United Fruit Company, which controlled a good portion of land in Guatemala.
> 
> "But instead of citing economic factors, many in the US cried 'communism,' saying the labor reforms were a threat to democracy.
> 
> *"Wisconsin Senator Alexander Wiley, chair of the Foreign Relations Committee at the time, said he believed that a 'Communist octopus' had used its tentacles to control events in Guatemala. *
> 
> "In 1954, the CIA helped organize a military coup to overthrow Guatemala’s democratically elected government, and continued to train the Guatemalan military well into the 70s."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor dodge. They still aren't fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or Nicaragua, for that matter.
Click to expand...




Aba Incieni said:


> Poor dodge. They still aren't fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or Nicaragua, for that matter.


*Obviously, asylum seekers wouldn't accomplish much if they left one country being destroyed by illegal US meddling for another, would they?

The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
*
"'The war in Guatemala was really a genocide,' Oglesby said, adding that an estimated 200,000 were killed in the subsequent 36-year-long civil war, which stretched from 1960 to 1996. 'The history is important because it went so far beyond anti-communism—the purpose was to destroy people’s vision of the future. It had a terrible impact on the country, hundreds of thousands of people were displaced.'"


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Maybe you live long enough to comprehend the difference between hired killers and their victims*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's shadowy role in Guatemala's dirty war
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *May you sleep with the (red) octopus*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In the 1950s, Guatemala attempted to end exploitative labor practices and give land to Mayan Indians in the highlands.
> 
> "The move, according to now-unclassified CIA documents, threatened US interests like the United Fruit Company, which controlled a good portion of land in Guatemala.
> 
> "But instead of citing economic factors, many in the US cried 'communism,' saying the labor reforms were a threat to democracy.
> 
> *"Wisconsin Senator Alexander Wiley, chair of the Foreign Relations Committee at the time, said he believed that a 'Communist octopus' had used its tentacles to control events in Guatemala. *
> 
> "In 1954, the CIA helped organize a military coup to overthrow Guatemala’s democratically elected government, and continued to train the Guatemalan military well into the 70s."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor dodge. They still aren't fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or Nicaragua, for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor dodge. They still aren't fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or Nicaragua, for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Obviously, asylum seekers wouldn't accomplish much if they left one country being destroyed by illegal US meddling for another, would they?
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> *
> "'The war in Guatemala was really a genocide,' Oglesby said, adding that an estimated 200,000 were killed in the subsequent 36-year-long civil war, which stretched from 1960 to 1996. 'The history is important because it went so far beyond anti-communism—the purpose was to destroy people’s vision of the future. It had a terrible impact on the country, hundreds of thousands of people were displaced.'"
Click to expand...


*The war in Guatemala was really a genocide,' Oglesby said, adding that an estimated 200,000 were killed in the subsequent 36-year-long civil war, which stretched from 1960 to 1996.*

Less than 6000 a year...genocide? Starting from a population of 4.1 million, ending at over 10 million?

Somebody needs a new dictionary.

*'The history is important because it went so far beyond anti-communism—the purpose was to destroy people’s vision of the future. *

Did it kill the vision of future communism?


----------



## georgephillip

Toddsterpatriot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *You're confused about how sanctions that target one sector responsible for more than 90% of Venezuela's revenues will kill citizens of that country?*
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> 
> "More than 40,000 people have died in Venezuela since 2017 as a result of U.S. sanctions, according to a new report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research co-authored by economists Jeffrey Sachs and Mark Weisbrot.
> 
> "The report examines how U.S. sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine in Venezuela and increased disease and mortality.
> 
> "We speak with Jeffrey Sachs in our New York studio. In the report, he writes, *'American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500,000 Dead Children Haunt Madeleine Albright – Jacob G. Hornberger –*
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
Click to expand...




Toddsterpatriot said:


> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?







How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is confused.
> 
> They caused no deaths.
> Those governments caused the deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017
Click to expand...


*How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?*

Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carter. Typical Democrat warmonger.
> 
> Good to see you support MS13, though. Maybe they'll skin you alive for your support
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Maybe you live long enough to comprehend the difference between hired killers and their victims*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's shadowy role in Guatemala's dirty war
> 
> "Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced in the 1980s,” said Elizabeth Oglesby, an associate professor of Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.
> 
> "'People were fleeing violence and massacres and political persecution that the United States was either funding directly or at the very minimum, covering up and excusing.'
> 
> "Violence today in those countries, she said, is a directly legacy of US involvement."
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Displaced = fled. They formed MS13. May they flay you alive one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *May you sleep with the (red) octopus*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In the 1950s, Guatemala attempted to end exploitative labor practices and give land to Mayan Indians in the highlands.
> 
> "The move, according to now-unclassified CIA documents, threatened US interests like the United Fruit Company, which controlled a good portion of land in Guatemala.
> 
> "But instead of citing economic factors, many in the US cried 'communism,' saying the labor reforms were a threat to democracy.
> 
> *"Wisconsin Senator Alexander Wiley, chair of the Foreign Relations Committee at the time, said he believed that a 'Communist octopus' had used its tentacles to control events in Guatemala. *
> 
> "In 1954, the CIA helped organize a military coup to overthrow Guatemala’s democratically elected government, and continued to train the Guatemalan military well into the 70s."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Poor dodge. They still aren't fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or Nicaragua, for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor dodge. They still aren't fleeing to Cuba or Venezuela.
> 
> Or Nicaragua, for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Obviously, asylum seekers wouldn't accomplish much if they left one country being destroyed by illegal US meddling for another, would they?
> 
> The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US
> *
> "'The war in Guatemala was really a genocide,' Oglesby said, adding that an estimated 200,000 were killed in the subsequent 36-year-long civil war, which stretched from 1960 to 1996. 'The history is important because it went so far beyond anti-communism—the purpose was to destroy people’s vision of the future. It had a terrible impact on the country, hundreds of thousands of people were displaced.'"
Click to expand...

Socialist worker's paradises are out. You make a good argument for Capitalism.


----------



## Godboy

Angelo said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
Click to expand...

Whatever you say, weirdo.


----------



## georgephillip

Toddsterpatriot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US sanctions caused those deaths, just like they did in Iraq twenty years ago:
> 
> Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!
> *
> "t started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.
> 
> "That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.
> 
> "That was the utter collapse.
> 
> "Oil earnings plummeted.
> 
> "The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed.
> 
> "That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.
> 
> *"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?*
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
Click to expand...




Toddsterpatriot said:


> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?


Why would you stop paying your workers?




Are you a crony capitalist?


----------



## Godboy

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?*
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you stop paying your workers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a crony capitalist?
Click to expand...

I thinks its amusing that you think the US is the bad guy and Venezuala is the good guy. Your moral compass is broken and you seem to lack logic in all your nutty posts.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

georgephillip said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soupnazi630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it was not sanctions
> 
> It was the evil government of those nations in both cases which caused those deaths.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?*
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you stop paying your workers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a crony capitalist?
Click to expand...


Yeah, not paying the oil workers you need every day to fund your budget is exactly like that. DURR.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Godboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?*
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you stop paying your workers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a crony capitalist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thinks its amusing that you think the US is the bad guy and Venezuala is the good guy. Your moral compass is broken and you seem to lack logic in all your nutty posts.
Click to expand...


He thinks Marx is a groovy dude...….


----------



## the other mike

Godboy said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Fire up the helicopters and get rid of some commies!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing good about this for anyone .
> It's more empire fun and games by our shadow govt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever you say, weirdo.
Click to expand...

I love being called names by a kid with a doom pentagram avatar who goes by godboy.


----------



## georgephillip

Godboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Illegal US sanctions are the biggest problem confronting Venezuela:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017"
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?*
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you stop paying your workers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a crony capitalist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thinks its amusing that you think the US is the bad guy and Venezuala is the good guy. Your moral compass is broken and you seem to lack logic in all your nutty posts.
Click to expand...




Godboy said:


> I thinks its amusing that you think the US is the bad guy and Venezuala is the good guy. Your moral compass is broken and you seem to lack logic in all your nutty posts.


If the US invades Venezuela like it did Iraq, does that make it a good guy or a bad guy?


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
Click to expand...

He's not a dictator.

He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.

As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.

If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.

How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?


----------



## Aba Incieni

MisterBeale said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
Click to expand...

Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is why we often hear from folks here on USMB, "I am from Venezuela, or I heard from someone down there. . . etc." Notice they are always fluent in English? Notice they always have enough privilege to be able to talk with someone in the states?
> 
> No one every even questions the narrative that the richest and most privileged Venezuelans OF COURSE do not like the government down there taking away their privilege and destroying a system that only favors the top five percent or so. . .
> 
> 
> 
> How do like your mass starvation and hyperinflation as Venezuela free falls into chaos?
> Chalk up another socialist nation that uses authoritarian despotic rule to justify it's criminal actions. Your racist appeals
> to prejudice only makes your case all the more cowardly and disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is their nation. I can't imagine why we would interfere with free and fair elections. Only the brain washed would tolerate such a thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you could imagine why people would want to interfere with elections that were rigged and crooked from the start if you looked around just a bit and weren't so dishonest and playing your _"Gee, why would people do that_?" game.
> You are transparently playing games with the truth.
> 
> Venezuela's Maduro Wins Boycotted Elections Amid Charges Of Fraud
Click to expand...


Are you serious with that shit?






If NPR published any bullshit critical of Trump, you would not take them seriously for an instant, you know where their globalist bread is buttered.  Don't push that shit on us.  The only sourcing to "factual" reporting in the entire piece was to spooks that have an agenda.


*Relationship with the U.S. Government*
In 2006, the _Financial Times_ reported that Freedom House received funding by the State Department for 'clandestine activities' inside Iran.[69] According to the _Financial Times_, "Some academics, activists and those involved in the growing US business of spreading freedom and democracy are alarmed that such semi-covert activities risk damaging the public and transparent work of other organisations, and will backfire inside Iran."[69]

On December 7, 2004, former U.S. House Representative and Libertarian politician Ron Paul criticized Freedom House for allegedly administering a U.S.-funded program in Ukraine where "much of that money was targeted to assist one particular candidate." Paul said that 


_one part that we do know thus far is that the U.S. government, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), granted millions of dollars to the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), which is administered by the U.S.-based Freedom House. PAUCI then sent U.S. Government funds to numerous Ukrainian non-governmental organizations (NGOs). This would be bad enough and would in itself constitute meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. But, what is worse is that many of these grantee organizations in Ukraine are blatantly in favor of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko.[70]_


Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman have criticized the organization for excessively criticizing states opposed to US interests while being unduly sympathetic to regimes supportive of US interests.[71] For example, Freedom House described the Rhodesian general election of 1979 as "fair", but described the Southern Rhodesian 1980 elections as "dubious",[71] and it found El Salvador's 1982 election to be "admirable".[71] It also supported Ronald Reagan's labeling of the 1984 Nicaraguan general election as fraudulent, despite international observers concluding that they were free and fair.


IOW, take that propaganda with a grain of salt.  They don't know their head from a hole in the ground.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

MisterBeale said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
Click to expand...


*He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.*

Kim Jung Il, Castro and Saddam used to get huge margins too.

*I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.*

What about a democratically and illegitimately elected government?

*How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion? *

That would depend on whether Trump was starving our population and how many millions had fled to Mexico and Canada.


----------



## MisterBeale

Aba Incieni said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
Click to expand...



Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.

Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.

Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.

It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.


----------



## Aba Incieni

MisterBeale said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.
Click to expand...

Any country has the right to sanction any other. No one can be forced to trade. But the Venezuelans voted in Socialism, had their guns confiscated, and now they must accept the consequences of their own stupidity.


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
Click to expand...


I remember when the _Bush_ limo was splattered with eggs on _his_ inauguration day.


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I remember when the _Bush_ limo was splattered with eggs on _his_ inauguration day.
Click to expand...

I remember when Obama sent pallets full of unmarked bills to Iran and promised we could keep our doctors.


----------



## MisterBeale

Toddsterpatriot said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.*
> 
> Kim Jung Il, Castro and Saddam used to get huge margins too.
> 
> *I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.*
> 
> What about a democratically and illegitimately elected government?
> 
> *How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion? *
> 
> That would depend on whether Trump was starving our population and how many millions had fled to Mexico and Canada.
Click to expand...


*He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.*

Kim Jung Il, Castro and Saddam used to get huge margins too.

*Generally, they were the only candidates on the ballot, or voting against them was hazardous to your health.*

*I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.*

What about a democratically and illegitimately elected government?

*Read ALL my posts.  The UN observers have written letters to both the US and EU proven the legitimacy of the Venezuelan government.  In fact, there were more registered voters that showed up for that vote, as such, their government is more legitimate than Canada's, the U.S., France, Britain, and Germany. . . and many more.*

*How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion? *

That would depend on whether Trump was starving our population and how many millions had fled to Mexico and Canada.

_*We have gone over this before in many posts.  And I posted a video on this you clearly did not want to watch.  You REFUSE to accept that the crashing of the economy there is due to PRIMARILY to illegal sanctions and the U.S. manipulation of oil prices.  Has cronyism and corruption crept in?  You bet.  You can't have socialism without it.  Especially when a government is under economic siege.  The refuge problem is artificially created by the economic warfare though.  *_

_*Cuba 2.0 started when Chavez was elected.  

*_
*Venezuela crisis: Former UN rapporteur says US sanctions are killing citizens*
*‘Modern-day economic sanctions and blockades are comparable with medieval sieges of towns’*
*US sanctions are killing Venezuelans, says former UN rapporteur*


". . . Despite being the first UN official to visit and report from Venezuela in 21 years, Mr de Zayas said his research into the causes of the country’s economic crisis has so far largely been ignored by the UN and the media, and caused little debate within the Human Rights Council.

He believes his report has been ignored because it goes against the popular narrative that Venezuela needs regime change.. . . . "

ODS HOME PAGE

Facts are stubborn ass things.
_*

*_


----------



## MisterBeale

Aba Incieni said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any country has the right to sanction any other. No one can be forced to trade. But the Venezuelans voted in Socialism, had their guns confiscated, and now they must accept the consequences of their own stupidity.
Click to expand...


I think that is a loathsome way to conduct business.  

Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?


Well, the refugee problems from S. America are on us then. . . . .


----------



## MisterBeale

OH, and btw, before the 20th century, sanctions, naval blockades, etc., were usually considered an act of war.

Just b/c no nation is crazy enough to retaliate upon a nation powerful enough to make sanctions work?  Does NOT mean that sanctions are no longer an act of war.  

Look it up... . . Sanctions ARE an act of war.


----------



## Aba Incieni

MisterBeale said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any country has the right to sanction any other. No one can be forced to trade. But the Venezuelans voted in Socialism, had their guns confiscated, and now they must accept the consequences of their own stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that is a loathsome way to conduct business.
> 
> Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?
> 
> 
> Well, the refugee problems from S. America are on us then. . . . .
Click to expand...

They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.

You make an excellent case for Capitalism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

MisterBeale said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Venezuelan military; I’ve trained some of them. They are not your usual “I want to shower after meeting them” crowd, as I would describe for instance the Honduran military. Instead, they are reasonably professional, reasonably aware of Venezuela’s historical commitment to democracy, and reasonably competent at their day jobs. They are proud of the fact that they are not Panama, i.e., a country into which the U.S. can send paratroopers overnight, kill several thousands, grab a narco-trafficker, and leave. . . . "
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.*
> 
> Kim Jung Il, Castro and Saddam used to get huge margins too.
> 
> *I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.*
> 
> What about a democratically and illegitimately elected government?
> 
> *How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion? *
> 
> That would depend on whether Trump was starving our population and how many millions had fled to Mexico and Canada.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.*
> 
> Kim Jung Il, Castro and Saddam used to get huge margins too.
> 
> *Generally, they were the only candidates on the ballot, or voting against them was hazardous to your health.*
> 
> *I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.*
> 
> What about a democratically and illegitimately elected government?
> 
> *Read ALL my posts.  The UN observers have written letters to both the US and EU proven the legitimacy of the Venezuelan government.  In fact, there were more registered voters that showed up for that vote, as such, their government is more legitimate than Canada's, the U.S., France, Britain, and Germany. . . and many more.*
> 
> *How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion? *
> 
> That would depend on whether Trump was starving our population and how many millions had fled to Mexico and Canada.
> 
> _*We have gone over this before in many posts.  And I posted a video on this you clearly did not want to watch.  You REFUSE to accept that the crashing of the economy there is due to PRIMARILY to illegal sanctions and the U.S. manipulation of oil prices.  Has cronyism and corruption crept in?  You bet.  You can't have socialism without it.  Especially when a government is under economic siege.  The refuge problem is artificially created by the economic warfare though.  *_
> 
> _*Cuba 2.0 started when Chavez was elected.
> 
> *_
> *Venezuela crisis: Former UN rapporteur says US sanctions are killing citizens*
> *‘Modern-day economic sanctions and blockades are comparable with medieval sieges of towns’*
> *US sanctions are killing Venezuelans, says former UN rapporteur*
> 
> 
> ". . . Despite being the first UN official to visit and report from Venezuela in 21 years, Mr de Zayas said his research into the causes of the country’s economic crisis has so far largely been ignored by the UN and the media, and caused little debate within the Human Rights Council.
> 
> He believes his report has been ignored because it goes against the popular narrative that Venezuela needs regime change.. . . . "
> 
> ODS HOME PAGE
> 
> Facts are stubborn ass things.
> _*
> *_
Click to expand...


*We have gone over this before in many posts. And I posted a video on this you clearly did not want to watch. You REFUSE to accept that the crashing of the economy there is due to PRIMARILY to illegal sanctions and the U.S. manipulation of oil prices.  *

U.S. manipulation? Tell me more!
When the government in Venezuela imposes price controls on food and then forces the grocery store to continue selling at the unprofitable price, with jail terms for "hoarding", instead of losing money with a forced sale, is that because of our sanctions?

When Venezuela seizes GM plants and Cargill rice mills, did the newly unemployed workers lose their jobs because of our sanctions?

*Facts are stubborn ass things.*

So is the inability of socialist price controls to replace a free market.


----------



## MisterBeale

Aba Incieni said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any country has the right to sanction any other. No one can be forced to trade. But the Venezuelans voted in Socialism, had their guns confiscated, and now they must accept the consequences of their own stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that is a loathsome way to conduct business.
> 
> Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?
> 
> 
> Well, the refugee problems from S. America are on us then. . . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> You make an excellent case for Capitalism.
Click to expand...


If you want to do the bidding of corporate America, feel free. . . 

Congratulations.  You are as evil as Madelaine Albright.


----------



## Aba Incieni

MisterBeale said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any country has the right to sanction any other. No one can be forced to trade. But the Venezuelans voted in Socialism, had their guns confiscated, and now they must accept the consequences of their own stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that is a loathsome way to conduct business.
> 
> Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?
> 
> 
> Well, the refugee problems from S. America are on us then. . . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> You make an excellent case for Capitalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to do the bidding of corporate America, feel free. . .
> 
> Congratulations.  You are as evil as Madelaine Albright.
Click to expand...

I want people to be free to make their own decisions. Force appears to be your means.


----------



## Godboy

georgephillip said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the line on the chart for "government confiscation of maintenance funds"?
> Or the one for "socialist incompetence"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?
> Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How about the one for "capitalist collusion"?*
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what you call it when you stop paying your oil industry workers and they quit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you stop paying your workers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a crony capitalist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thinks its amusing that you think the US is the bad guy and Venezuala is the good guy. Your moral compass is broken and you seem to lack logic in all your nutty posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thinks its amusing that you think the US is the bad guy and Venezuala is the good guy. Your moral compass is broken and you seem to lack logic in all your nutty posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the US invades Venezuela like it did Iraq, does that make it a good guy or a bad guy?
Click to expand...

What the fuck makes you think thats going to happen? Did one of your weirdo conspiracy sources convince you of that?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> He's not a dictator.


He just happens to rule Venezuela like one and was "elected" after all effective opponents were not allowed to receive votes.
Venezuela's Maduro Wins Boycotted Elections Amid Charges Of Fraud



> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.


Just like Castro, Hussein, Kim Jong Un always got, right?



> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup? I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.


Sounds like you used to work for the National Socialist Party in charge of Brown Shirt beat downs. How old are you?
I do take you at your word however that you don't give a damn about all the Venezuelan citizens who have been beaten, shot and crushed under the wheels of the armored vehicles of Meduro's goons. That's the sort of person you freely admit to being. 



> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.


Rank bullshit! Meduro lackeys were practically the only people who voted in a rigged election that was being boycotted by the electorate who knew what a fraud and hoax the election really was. 



> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion? I am willing to bet, not much, eh?


We don't murder people in the streets. Not even scum like Antifa. No one is shooting or crushing under an armored personnel carrier James Comey because of his leadership of a coup.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> OH, and btw, before the 20th century, sanctions, naval blockades, etc., were usually considered an act of war.
> 
> Just b/c no nation is crazy enough to retaliate upon a nation powerful enough to make sanctions work? Does NOT mean that sanctions are no longer an act of war.
> 
> Look it up... . . Sanctions ARE an act of war.


Sanctions ARE actually an *alternative* to war though you are far too dishonest and immoral to admit it and when a rogue state, like Maduro's dictatorship in Venezuela, turns their nation into a despotic hell hole then, short of actual war, sanctions are the only effective means of gaining compliance and providing relief for the people trapped with a madman.

The EU and OAS are fully on board with forcing Maduro to step down and Cuba, Vlad Putin (who seems to be the primary reason Meduro is still running things) and a only very few other bad actors like authoritarian dictators.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> Thank you. THAT is the point. It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have. They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM. They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right. It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . .. IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them. Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.


IF Russia and Vlad Putin were not the only thing keeping the illegal Maduro government from falling apart you would have more of a point, but still none at all from a humanitarian perspective.

Russia is a destabilizing force and as such the Organization of American States, the European Union and the rest of the civilized world (minus Iran, S.Africa, Cuba, China, etc.) all call for, at the very least, new and supervised elections that are fair and supervised by outside sources.


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> .


Like Florida.


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Like Florida.
Click to expand...

Dat's Capitalism, Hank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Reporter INSIDE Venezuelan Embassy Under Siege! w/Anya Parampil*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What our government isn't telling us about Venezuela*

**


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Like Florida.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dat's Capitalism, Hank.
Click to expand...

And without Social Security, Medicare, public schools and roads it would look 
like Bangladesh.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

It's amazing how many people will stand up to support a brutal authoritarian dictator. I'll bet they attack Nazis for their views on Hitler when they are no better themselves. Ironic.


----------



## the other mike

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> It's amazing how many people will stand up to support a brutal authoritarian dictator. I'll bet they attack Nazis for their views on Hitler when they are no better themselves. Ironic.


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Like Florida.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dat's Capitalism, Hank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And without Social Security, Medicare, public schools and roads it would look
> like Bangladesh.
Click to expand...

Without Capitalism it would look like Venezuela.


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Like Florida.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dat's Capitalism, Hank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And without Social Security, Medicare, public schools and roads it would look
> like Bangladesh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without Capitalism it would look like Venezuela.
Click to expand...

The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.
Stop your silly fucking lying .


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Like Florida.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dat's Capitalism, Hank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And without Social Security, Medicare, public schools and roads it would look
> like Bangladesh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without Capitalism it would look like Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.
> Stop your silly fucking lying .
Click to expand...


*The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.*

How are those socialists doing at providing enough food and toilet paper (for fuck sake) for their people?


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can always choose to move to a Socialist paradise.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Like Florida.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dat's Capitalism, Hank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And without Social Security, Medicare, public schools and roads it would look
> like Bangladesh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without Capitalism it would look like Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.
> Stop your silly fucking lying .
Click to expand...

Yes that's why they took away all their guns. You're brilliant.


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> Yes that's why they took away all their guns. You're brilliant.


You're all over the place on this aren't you ?
So just to play along, not that I'm for gun control, but bad analogy.
*The US Is the Only Country Where There Are More Guns Than People*


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven
> 
> 
> 
> It was not campaign money...you lose....
Click to expand...

Yea, tell that to Michael cohen who is sitting in jail for the crime he and Trump committed.


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven
> 
> 
> 
> It was not campaign money...you lose....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea, tell that to Michael cohen who is sitting in jail for the crime he and Trump committed.
Click to expand...

If it was campaign money Trump would be where Cohen is...you dope...but he is not...he is on Air Force one running our great again nation Buuuuuaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that's why they took away all their guns. You're brilliant.
> 
> 
> 
> You're all over the place on this aren't you ?
> So just to play along, not that I'm for gun control, but bad analogy.
> *The US Is the Only Country Where There Are More Guns Than People*
Click to expand...

And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.

That's why the Venezuelan government can drive trucks over people without getting their heads blown off, Timmy.


----------



## the other mike

BWK said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven
> 
> 
> 
> It was not campaign money...you lose....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea, tell that to Michael cohen who is sitting in jail for the crime he and Trump committed.
Click to expand...


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.
> 
> That's why the Venezuelan government can drive trucks over people without getting their heads blown off, Timmy.


Our government drops bombs on people, steals their oil , sugar and bananas, kills them with economic embargos & sanctions, tortures POWs,  spies on its own citizens and has the largest prison population in the world.

So we know what's best for Venezuela ?
Sure we do.


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.
> 
> That's why the Venezuelan government can drive trucks over people without getting their heads blown off, Timmy.
> 
> 
> 
> Our government drops bombs on people, steals their oil , sugar and bananas, kills them with economic embargos & sanctions, tortures POWs,  spies on its own citizens and has the largest prison population in the world.
Click to expand...

So start a revolution, Timmy.


----------



## Grumblenuts

Aba Incieni said:


> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.


Looks like you want us to think are. Also black and female. Lots to hide, eh?


----------



## Aba Incieni

Grumblenuts said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you want us to think are. Also black and female. Lots to hide, eh?
Click to expand...

Xena the Cuck learned the hard way.


----------



## BWK

Aba Incieni said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.
> 
> That's why the Venezuelan government can drive trucks over people without getting their heads blown off, Timmy.
> 
> 
> 
> Our government drops bombs on people, steals their oil , sugar and bananas, kills them with economic embargos & sanctions, tortures POWs,  spies on its own citizens and has the largest prison population in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So start a revolution, Timmy.
Click to expand...

And you could care less right?


----------



## Aba Incieni

BWK said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.
> 
> That's why the Venezuelan government can drive trucks over people without getting their heads blown off, Timmy.
> 
> 
> 
> Our government drops bombs on people, steals their oil , sugar and bananas, kills them with economic embargos & sanctions, tortures POWs,  spies on its own citizens and has the largest prison population in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So start a revolution, Timmy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you could care less right?
Click to expand...

He seems to hold many grudges.


----------



## the other mike

Aba Incieni said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.
> 
> That's why the Venezuelan government can drive trucks over people without getting their heads blown off, Timmy.
> 
> 
> 
> Our government drops bombs on people, steals their oil , sugar and bananas, kills them with economic embargos & sanctions, tortures POWs,  spies on its own citizens and has the largest prison population in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So start a revolution, Timmy.
Click to expand...

Movements never die- they just change shapes.
The revolution already started, Bart.


----------



## BWK

Rambunctious said:


> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven
> 
> 
> 
> It was not campaign money...you lose....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea, tell that to Michael cohen who is sitting in jail for the crime he and Trump committed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it was campaign money Trump would be where Cohen is...you dope...but he is not...he is on Air Force one running our great again nation Buuuuuaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!
Click to expand...

He has a sealed indictment waiting for him. Remember, that was Trump's money that he didn't report, but that he reimbursed Cohen for when Cohen used his own money to pay off porn stars for a crime Trump orchestrated. That is a federal crime. Trump is the ring leader in that crime. He's heading to jail one way or another.


----------



## Aba Incieni

Angelo said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll pretend like you're 6 years old.
> 
> That's why the Venezuelan government can drive trucks over people without getting their heads blown off, Timmy.
> 
> 
> 
> Our government drops bombs on people, steals their oil , sugar and bananas, kills them with economic embargos & sanctions, tortures POWs,  spies on its own citizens and has the largest prison population in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So start a revolution, Timmy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Movements never die- they just change shapes.
> The revolution already started, Bart.
Click to expand...

It started in Nov of 16.

I heard it won't be televised.


----------



## BWK

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like Florida.
> 
> 
> 
> Dat's Capitalism, Hank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And without Social Security, Medicare, public schools and roads it would look
> like Bangladesh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without Capitalism it would look like Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.
> Stop your silly fucking lying .
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.*
> 
> How are those socialists doing at providing enough food and toilet paper (for fuck sake) for their people?
Click to expand...

Not very well when the US imposes sanctions so they can strangle Venezuela. And this is our business how?


----------



## Rambunctious

BWK said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven
> 
> 
> 
> It was not campaign money...you lose....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea, tell that to Michael cohen who is sitting in jail for the crime he and Trump committed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it was campaign money Trump would be where Cohen is...you dope...but he is not...he is on Air Force one running our great again nation Buuuuuaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He has a sealed indictment waiting for him. Remember, that was Trump's money that he didn't report, but that he reimbursed Cohen for when Cohen used his own money to pay off porn stars for a crime Trump orchestrated. That is a federal crime. Trump is the ring leader in that crime. He's heading to jail one way or another.
Click to expand...

Who has a sealed indictment waiting?...Trump paid Stormy through Cohen to go away...he used Trump industries money not campaign money...not illegal in any way....Ring Leader....


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Stopped backing Maduro the butcher? Where's the announcement?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

BWK said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Campaign finance violations to pay off porn stars, proven
> 
> 
> 
> It was not campaign money...you lose....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea, tell that to Michael cohen who is sitting in jail for the crime he and Trump committed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it was campaign money Trump would be where Cohen is...you dope...but he is not...he is on Air Force one running our great again nation Buuuuuaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He has a sealed indictment waiting for him. Remember, that was Trump's money that he didn't report, but that he reimbursed Cohen for when Cohen used his own money to pay off porn stars for a crime Trump orchestrated. That is a federal crime. Trump is the ring leader in that crime. He's heading to jail one way or another.
Click to expand...


*Remember, that was Trump's money that he didn't report, *

Trump didn't have to report it.

*That is a federal crime. *

Liar.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

BWK said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dat's Capitalism, Hank.
> 
> 
> 
> And without Social Security, Medicare, public schools and roads it would look
> like Bangladesh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without Capitalism it would look like Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.
> Stop your silly fucking lying .
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The capitalists are the ones hurting Venezuela.*
> 
> How are those socialists doing at providing enough food and toilet paper (for fuck sake) for their people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not very well when the US imposes sanctions so they can strangle Venezuela. And this is our business how?
Click to expand...


Didn't realize the US was the only source for food and toilet paper in the world.


----------



## Grumblenuts

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Didn't realize the US was the only source for food and toilet paper in the world.


Har, har. 
Sunshine.. on your BS.. makes you crappy!..


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Grumblenuts said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't realize the US was the only source for food and toilet paper in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Har, har.
> Sunshine.. on your BS.. makes you crappy!..
Click to expand...


On which date was tp sanctioned?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Code Pink Reports on Venezuela Embassy Takeover, ft Lee Camp, Ariel Gold*

**


----------



## emilynghiem

MisterBeale said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Venezuelan military is so committed to democracy and professional they are keeping a butcher and dictator in office as they beat, shoot and simply drive over citizens of Venezuela that want their nightmare to end as their nation has become a dystopic dysfunctional authoritarian hell hole.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any country has the right to sanction any other. No one can be forced to trade. But the Venezuelans voted in Socialism, had their guns confiscated, and now they must accept the consequences of their own stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that is a loathsome way to conduct business.
> 
> *Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?*
> 
> 
> Well, the refugee problems from S. America are on us then. . . . .
Click to expand...


RE: 
*Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?*

Dear MisterBeale
I thought this was being blamed on the corrupt govt,
that was blocking aid from other sources coming in,
because they wanted to maintain control of their people.
Even if that meant killing them by either starving or attacking them.​


----------



## emilynghiem

georgephillip said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
Click to expand...


Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
georgephillip 
SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...


----------



## P F Tinmore

emilynghiem said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
Click to expand...

We have been lied into virtually every war since WWII. How many times do we have to watch these reruns before we realize that we are being hoodwinked?


----------



## Likkmee

It wont be long before the Coup de Ville shows up and Maduro leaves horizontally in the back of it.
Ya see. The empire tries sanctions, then destroying currency to gain civil unrest.
Next comes a CIA hit. If that fails.......think Noriega and Panama. Figure 10-30,000 dead brown people in a couple-three days and one meathead in handcuffs headed to Miami.


----------



## MisterBeale

emilynghiem said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's not a dictator.
> 
> He was democratically elected with more support than in any western nation.
> 
> As far as how the democratically elected government puts down a coup?  I don't really care how violently they shoot, maim, kill, drive over, or otherwise demolish fools that try to overthrow a democratically and legitimately elected government.
> 
> If their government is so dystopic, maybe the international cabal of criminals and thieves should allow the people of Venezuela to trade and do business with the world again, as they have not done anything wrong other than choose a government of their own sovereign choice.
> 
> How much sympathy would you have for Antifa if they tried to overthrow Trump and they were treated in a similar fashion?  I am willing to bet, not much, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> Agree. They chose their government, they can unchoose it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  THAT is the point.  It is none of our business.
> 
> Nor should we be putting sanctions on them just because we don't care for the type of government they choose to have.  They are the idiots that want to live with an unproductive type of economy, that is on THEM.  They should have the freedom to have that, it is their right.  It is THEIR natural resources, not ours.
> 
> Eventually, socialism will turn to complete corruption and backwardness. . ..   IT will doom them, if they can't see from Cuba's example, rather than learn from Russia, that is on them.
> 
> It is a war crime what the west is doing to them.  Blockades and siege-warfare always have been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any country has the right to sanction any other. No one can be forced to trade. But the Venezuelans voted in Socialism, had their guns confiscated, and now they must accept the consequences of their own stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that is a loathsome way to conduct business.
> 
> *Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?*
> 
> 
> Well, the refugee problems from S. America are on us then. . . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> RE:
> *Starving children because you do not want their parents to have political emancipation?*
> 
> Dear MisterBeale
> I thought this was being blamed on the corrupt govt,
> that was blocking aid from other sources coming in,
> because they wanted to maintain control of their people.
> Even if that meant killing them by either starving or attacking them.​
Click to expand...


What ever the corporate MSM press is telling you, it is all lies, be assured of that.

America's dollar is based on petroleum.  Venezuela has on of the greatest petroleum reserves, and the people of Venezuela are NOT letting their petroleum reserves be bought and sold on the free market with America's reserve currency.  This is a direct threat to our economy and our hegemony  Thus, the CFR, in concert with our national and international media partners is going to give you false information about what is going on down there.

If you do the research, you will find that the reality of the situation IS NOT what you believe it is.

The government could not be so corrupt as to allow people to "starve" or else it would not have popular support.  You have fallen for propaganda.


----------



## MisterBeale

emilynghiem said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
Click to expand...

How Lies Become ‘Facts’ in US ‘News’ - OffGuardian


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> What ever the corporate MSM press is telling you, it is all lies, be assured of that.
> 
> America's dollar is based on petroleum. Venezuela has on of the greatest petroleum reserves, and the people of Venezuela are NOT letting their petroleum reserves be bought and sold on the free market with America's reserve currency. This is a direct threat to our economy and our hegemony Thus, the CFR, in concert with our national and international media partners is going to give you false information about what is going on down there.
> 
> If you do the research, you will find that the reality of the situation IS NOT what you believe it is.
> 
> The government could not be so corrupt as to allow people to "starve" or else it would not have popular support. You have fallen for propaganda.


Right  . When you see video of people being beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons you can't trust your lying eyes. That's all propaganda. 
The people all fleeing Venezuela for neighboring nations aren't running away from Maduro...they are just ecstatic and eager to tell others how wonderful life in Venezuela is.


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> What ever the corporate MSM press is telling you, it is all lies, be assured of that.
> 
> America's dollar is based on petroleum. Venezuela has on of the greatest petroleum reserves, and the people of Venezuela are NOT letting their petroleum reserves be bought and sold on the free market with America's reserve currency. This is a direct threat to our economy and our hegemony Thus, the CFR, in concert with our national and international media partners is going to give you false information about what is going on down there.
> 
> If you do the research, you will find that the reality of the situation IS NOT what you believe it is.
> 
> The government could not be so corrupt as to allow people to "starve" or else it would not have popular support. You have fallen for propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Right  . When you see video of people being beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons you can't trust your lying eyes. That's all propaganda.
> The people all fleeing Venezuela for neighboring nations aren't running away from Maduro...they are just ecstatic and eager to tell others how wonderful life in Venezuela is.
Click to expand...


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Nice non sequitur comeback., Debate King.


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Nice non sequitur comeback., Debate King.


If you don't understand it's relevance, that is on you.  

I think most intelligent folks understand the meaning.

Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.  If you want the forum or America to believe a small group of a couple thousand represents the entire nation, then you are as obtuse as that small group.

If Antifa were to try to overthrow this nation's government and it was "beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons," would you be whining for China and Russia to similarly intervene?

Somehow I doubt it.  Stop being such gullible a pussy.


----------



## MisterBeale




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

MisterBeale said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice non sequitur comeback., Debate King.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't understand it's relevance, that is on you.
> 
> I think most intelligent folks understand the meaning.
> 
> Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.  If you want the forum or America to believe a small group of a couple thousand represents the entire nation, then you are as obtuse as that small group.
> 
> If Antifa were to try to overthrow this nation's government and it was "beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons," would you be whining for China and Russia to similarly intervene?
> 
> Somehow I doubt it.  Stop being such gullible a pussy.
Click to expand...

*Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*

How many fled recently?


----------



## MisterBeale

Toddsterpatriot said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice non sequitur comeback., Debate King.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't understand it's relevance, that is on you.
> 
> I think most intelligent folks understand the meaning.
> 
> Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.  If you want the forum or America to believe a small group of a couple thousand represents the entire nation, then you are as obtuse as that small group.
> 
> If Antifa were to try to overthrow this nation's government and it was "beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons," would you be whining for China and Russia to similarly intervene?
> 
> Somehow I doubt it.  Stop being such gullible a pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
Click to expand...

I haven't got a clue.

Do you?

I am sure we could not get accurate information on that.  Only propaganda pushing on narrative or another.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> If you don't understand it's relevance, that is on you.
> 
> I think most intelligent folks understand the meaning.


I understand _you want to imply some meaning_ that somehow
exculpates what the butcher Maduro is doing. 
Like all boot licking apologists for dictators you fail. 



> Venezuela has a population of over 31 million. If you want the forum or America to believe a small group of a couple thousand represents the entire nation, then you are as obtuse as that small group.


That's really very funny.
Have you been doing comedy long?




> If Antifa were to try to overthrow this nation's government and it was "beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons," would you be whining for China and Russia to similarly intervene?


Such a biased, loaded clumsy attempt at an analogy. Antifa is not involved. Maduro gained power by rigging national elections. The map I provided shows the entire developed world wants Venezuela returned to sanity and their dictator removed.



> Somehow I doubt it. Stop being such gullible a pussy.


You are no better than a minor league Josef Goebbles or Baghdad Bob....take your knee pads off and pull up your pants.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

MisterBeale said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice non sequitur comeback., Debate King.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't understand it's relevance, that is on you.
> 
> I think most intelligent folks understand the meaning.
> 
> Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.  If you want the forum or America to believe a small group of a couple thousand represents the entire nation, then you are as obtuse as that small group.
> 
> If Antifa were to try to overthrow this nation's government and it was "beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons," would you be whining for China and Russia to similarly intervene?
> 
> Somehow I doubt it.  Stop being such gullible a pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't got a clue.
> 
> Do you?
> 
> I am sure we could not get accurate information on that.  Only propaganda pushing on narrative or another.
Click to expand...


The UN says over 3 million. 

Venezuelan refugees now number 3.4 million; humanitarian implications massive, UN warns


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?


As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
> 
> 
> 
> As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.
Click to expand...

He isn't a dictator.  He was elected.  Maybe if they were allowed to trade and were not under a siege, they could feed their people.


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't understand it's relevance, that is on you.
> 
> I think most intelligent folks understand the meaning.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand _you want to imply some meaning_ that somehow
> exculpates what the butcher Maduro is doing.
> Like all boot licking apologists for dictators you fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuela has a population of over 31 million. If you want the forum or America to believe a small group of a couple thousand represents the entire nation, then you are as obtuse as that small group.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's really very funny.
> Have you been doing comedy long?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Antifa were to try to overthrow this nation's government and it was "beaten, shot at, run over, being hit by water cannons," would you be whining for China and Russia to similarly intervene?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a biased, loaded clumsy attempt at an analogy. Antifa is not involved. Maduro gained power by rigging national elections. The map I provided shows the entire developed world wants Venezuela returned to sanity and their dictator removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow I doubt it. Stop being such gullible a pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are no better than a minor league Josef Goebbles or Baghdad Bob....take your knee pads off and pull up your pants.
Click to expand...

We have been over this before.  We just disagree.  You have your facts, I have mine.

I don't agree with you.  There is really no point in having a discussion with you.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
> 
> 
> 
> As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He isn't a dictator.  He was elected.  Maybe if they were allowed to trade and were not under a siege, they could feed their people.
Click to expand...

His election was illegitimate. Stop sucking Maduro's dick so hard.


----------



## caddo kid

This coup has been going on for about two weeks now;  I think it needs some ExLax.


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
> 
> 
> 
> As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He isn't a dictator.  He was elected.  Maybe if they were allowed to trade and were not under a siege, they could feed their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His election was illegitimate. Stop sucking Maduro's dick so hard.
Click to expand...

The same source that Toro used about refugee said his election was legitimate.  International observers, and a UN observer said it was legitimate.

Your Ad hominem shows your desperation.  Sorry bud, you got nothin'


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> The same source that Toro used about refugee said his election was legitimate. International observers, and a UN observer said it was legitimate.
> 
> Your Ad hominem shows your desperation. Sorry bud, you got nothin'


Venezuela's Maduro re-elected amid outcry over vote - Reuters
You support a butcher. No wonder you don't like the comment. Too bad.


----------



## georgephillip

emilynghiem said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
Click to expand...

*Neocons are back in charge of US foreign policy, and they are fully committed to regime change in Venezuela and Iran:

Financial Imperialism-The Case of Venezuela
*
"The US Neocon-led strategy is increasingly clear: establish a ‘beach-head’ on the Colombian-Venezuelan (and Venezuelan-Brazilian) border under the guise of providing humanitarian aid. 

"Use the aid to get Venezuelans on the border to welcome the US proxy forces to cross over. Set up political and military structures thereafter just inside the Venezuelan borders with Colombia and Brazil, from which to launch further similar efforts deeper into Venezuela. 

"Repeat this province by province, step by step, penetrating Venezuela space until enough local units of the Venezuelan military change sides and convince one or more of the Venezuelan military hierarchy to join them. 

"Establish a dual state and government within and along the border of the Venezuelan state this way. A breakaway State and dual power within the country. 

*"Make it appear, by manipulating the media, that the Venezuelan people are rising up against the Maduro government, when in fact it is US proxy forces invading and using opportunist local politicians, military, and others in the ‘conquered’ zones, as the media covers for their invasion."*


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Neocons are back in charge of US foreign policy, and they are fully committed to regime change in Venezuela and Iran:
> 
> Financial Imperialism-The Case of Venezuela
> *
> "The US Neocon-led strategy is increasingly clear: establish a ‘beach-head’ on the Colombian-Venezuelan (and Venezuelan-Brazilian) border under the guise of providing humanitarian aid.
> 
> "Use the aid to get Venezuelans on the border to welcome the US proxy forces to cross over. Set up political and military structures thereafter just inside the Venezuelan borders with Colombia and Brazil, from which to launch further similar efforts deeper into Venezuela.
> 
> "Repeat this province by province, step by step, penetrating Venezuela space until enough local units of the Venezuelan military change sides and convince one or more of the Venezuelan military hierarchy to join them.
> 
> "Establish a dual state and government within and along the border of the Venezuelan state this way. A breakaway State and dual power within the country.
> 
> *"Make it appear, by manipulating the media, that the Venezuelan people are rising up against the Maduro government, when in fact it is US proxy forces invading and using opportunist local politicians, military, and others in the ‘conquered’ zones, as the media covers for their invasion."*
Click to expand...

Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.

I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.


----------



## georgephillip

Aba Incieni said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Neocons are back in charge of US foreign policy, and they are fully committed to regime change in Venezuela and Iran:
> 
> Financial Imperialism-The Case of Venezuela
> *
> "The US Neocon-led strategy is increasingly clear: establish a ‘beach-head’ on the Colombian-Venezuelan (and Venezuelan-Brazilian) border under the guise of providing humanitarian aid.
> 
> "Use the aid to get Venezuelans on the border to welcome the US proxy forces to cross over. Set up political and military structures thereafter just inside the Venezuelan borders with Colombia and Brazil, from which to launch further similar efforts deeper into Venezuela.
> 
> "Repeat this province by province, step by step, penetrating Venezuela space until enough local units of the Venezuelan military change sides and convince one or more of the Venezuelan military hierarchy to join them.
> 
> "Establish a dual state and government within and along the border of the Venezuelan state this way. A breakaway State and dual power within the country.
> 
> *"Make it appear, by manipulating the media, that the Venezuelan people are rising up against the Maduro government, when in fact it is US proxy forces invading and using opportunist local politicians, military, and others in the ‘conquered’ zones, as the media covers for their invasion."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.
Click to expand...




Aba Incieni said:


> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.


*Where did you get the idea CodePink ignored Obama's war crimes, Fox News?




Code Pink reviews Obama's Afghan strategy du jour*

"There are news reports that on Decembers [sic] 1st, Obama will be at West Point to announce that he is sending tens of thousands more troops to Afghanistan, this despite our rallies, vigils, petitions, phone calls and e-mails saying NO to MORE WAR. We can’t let generals and war profiteers be the only ones who have the President’s ear."


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watching socialism come to its predictable end is so sad. Those people are being shot and run over by tanks! Disgusting. It just proves you can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Neocons are back in charge of US foreign policy, and they are fully committed to regime change in Venezuela and Iran:
> 
> Financial Imperialism-The Case of Venezuela
> *
> "The US Neocon-led strategy is increasingly clear: establish a ‘beach-head’ on the Colombian-Venezuelan (and Venezuelan-Brazilian) border under the guise of providing humanitarian aid.
> 
> "Use the aid to get Venezuelans on the border to welcome the US proxy forces to cross over. Set up political and military structures thereafter just inside the Venezuelan borders with Colombia and Brazil, from which to launch further similar efforts deeper into Venezuela.
> 
> "Repeat this province by province, step by step, penetrating Venezuela space until enough local units of the Venezuelan military change sides and convince one or more of the Venezuelan military hierarchy to join them.
> 
> "Establish a dual state and government within and along the border of the Venezuelan state this way. A breakaway State and dual power within the country.
> 
> *"Make it appear, by manipulating the media, that the Venezuelan people are rising up against the Maduro government, when in fact it is US proxy forces invading and using opportunist local politicians, military, and others in the ‘conquered’ zones, as the media covers for their invasion."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Where did you get the idea CodePink ignored Obama's war crimes, Fox News?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code Pink reviews Obama's Afghan strategy du jour*
> 
> "There are news reports that on Decembers [sic] 1st, Obama will be at West Point to announce that he is sending tens of thousands more troops to Afghanistan, this despite our rallies, vigils, petitions, phone calls and e-mails saying NO to MORE WAR. We can’t let generals and war profiteers be the only ones who have the President’s ear."
Click to expand...

They didn't camp out on his doorstep. They made a jpg instead.


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> The same source that Toro used about refugee said his election was legitimate. International observers, and a UN observer said it was legitimate.
> 
> Your Ad hominem shows your desperation. Sorry bud, you got nothin'
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuela's Maduro re-elected amid outcry over vote - Reuters
> You support a butcher. No wonder you don't like the comment. Too bad.
Click to expand...

You know why you are not to be taken seriously?

The sources you use to back up your arguments, you turn around and say can't be trusted to report fairly on news about the Trump administration.

You can't be taken seriously, as you cherry pick your reality.


----------



## georgephillip

Aba Incieni said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see Venezuelan tanks running over civilians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Neocons are back in charge of US foreign policy, and they are fully committed to regime change in Venezuela and Iran:
> 
> Financial Imperialism-The Case of Venezuela
> *
> "The US Neocon-led strategy is increasingly clear: establish a ‘beach-head’ on the Colombian-Venezuelan (and Venezuelan-Brazilian) border under the guise of providing humanitarian aid.
> 
> "Use the aid to get Venezuelans on the border to welcome the US proxy forces to cross over. Set up political and military structures thereafter just inside the Venezuelan borders with Colombia and Brazil, from which to launch further similar efforts deeper into Venezuela.
> 
> "Repeat this province by province, step by step, penetrating Venezuela space until enough local units of the Venezuelan military change sides and convince one or more of the Venezuelan military hierarchy to join them.
> 
> "Establish a dual state and government within and along the border of the Venezuelan state this way. A breakaway State and dual power within the country.
> 
> *"Make it appear, by manipulating the media, that the Venezuelan people are rising up against the Maduro government, when in fact it is US proxy forces invading and using opportunist local politicians, military, and others in the ‘conquered’ zones, as the media covers for their invasion."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Where did you get the idea CodePink ignored Obama's war crimes, Fox News?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code Pink reviews Obama's Afghan strategy du jour*
> 
> "There are news reports that on Decembers [sic] 1st, Obama will be at West Point to announce that he is sending tens of thousands more troops to Afghanistan, this despite our rallies, vigils, petitions, phone calls and e-mails saying NO to MORE WAR. We can’t let generals and war profiteers be the only ones who have the President’s ear."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't camp out on his doorstep. They made a jpg instead.
Click to expand...




Aba Incieni said:


> They didn't camp out on his doorstep. They made a jpg instead.







"On October 31, 2009, Code Pink organized a protest rally outside the White House to coincide with President and Mrs. Obama's official Halloween party. 

"As many of the guests were family members of military personnel, the Code Pink press release encouraged attendees to dress as 'zombie soldiers'.[18] 

"The event gained some notoriety when complaints surfaced about Reuters' characterization of their protest as 'taunting' children, a characterization that Reuters stood by."

Code Pink - Wikipedia


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> You know why you are not to be taken seriously?
> 
> The sources you use to back up your arguments, you turn around and say can't be trusted to report fairly on news about the Trump administration.
> 
> You can't be taken seriously, as you cherry pick your reality.


You are just looking for any escape hatch you can find. Reuters is very reliable when it comes to international news.
You can't be taken seriously as you defend and bend over backwards to support a butcher.


----------



## Aba Incieni

georgephillip said:


> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armored vehicle runs over protesters in Venezuela (IN SPANISH)
> georgephillip
> SOCIALISM: Venezuelan Military Uses Deadly Force to Keep Citizens From Getting Food...
> 
> 
> 
> *Neocons are back in charge of US foreign policy, and they are fully committed to regime change in Venezuela and Iran:
> 
> Financial Imperialism-The Case of Venezuela
> *
> "The US Neocon-led strategy is increasingly clear: establish a ‘beach-head’ on the Colombian-Venezuelan (and Venezuelan-Brazilian) border under the guise of providing humanitarian aid.
> 
> "Use the aid to get Venezuelans on the border to welcome the US proxy forces to cross over. Set up political and military structures thereafter just inside the Venezuelan borders with Colombia and Brazil, from which to launch further similar efforts deeper into Venezuela.
> 
> "Repeat this province by province, step by step, penetrating Venezuela space until enough local units of the Venezuelan military change sides and convince one or more of the Venezuelan military hierarchy to join them.
> 
> "Establish a dual state and government within and along the border of the Venezuelan state this way. A breakaway State and dual power within the country.
> 
> *"Make it appear, by manipulating the media, that the Venezuelan people are rising up against the Maduro government, when in fact it is US proxy forces invading and using opportunist local politicians, military, and others in the ‘conquered’ zones, as the media covers for their invasion."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neocons brought out of mothballs. How quaint.
> 
> I see CodePink has suddenly re-materialized after laying dormant for 8 years while Obama droned the entire ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Where did you get the idea CodePink ignored Obama's war crimes, Fox News?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code Pink reviews Obama's Afghan strategy du jour*
> 
> "There are news reports that on Decembers [sic] 1st, Obama will be at West Point to announce that he is sending tens of thousands more troops to Afghanistan, this despite our rallies, vigils, petitions, phone calls and e-mails saying NO to MORE WAR. We can’t let generals and war profiteers be the only ones who have the President’s ear."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't camp out on his doorstep. They made a jpg instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aba Incieni said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't camp out on his doorstep. They made a jpg instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "On October 31, 2009, Code Pink organized a protest rally outside the White House to coincide with President and Mrs. Obama's official Halloween party.
> 
> "As many of the guests were family members of military personnel, the Code Pink press release encouraged attendees to dress as 'zombie soldiers'.[18]
> 
> "The event gained some notoriety when complaints surfaced about Reuters' characterization of their protest as 'taunting' children, a characterization that Reuters stood by."
> 
> Code Pink - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

All 9 of them. lol


----------



## MisterBeale

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know why you are not to be taken seriously?
> 
> The sources you use to back up your arguments, you turn around and say can't be trusted to report fairly on news about the Trump administration.
> 
> You can't be taken seriously, as you cherry pick your reality.
> 
> 
> 
> You are just looking for any escape hatch you can find. Reuters is very reliable when it comes to international news.
> You can't be taken seriously as you defend and bend over backwards to support a butcher.
Click to expand...


YOU can't seriously defend your position if you won't seriously examine your presuppositions.  What makes Reuters international reporting "reliable," and their domestic coverage, "fake news?"  Just because you say so, or it because it doesn't accord with your truth? 

Be serious, otherwise, you aren't to be taken seriously.  I AM CONSISTENT, YOU AREN'T. 

The sources I use, I trust, all the time.  The sources you trust, you only trust when it suits your feelings.  Thus, you aren't to be taken seriously.

However, in the spirit of fair play, let's turn to yet a third source, someone outside of both the Anglo-American establishment, AND the alternative press. 

This is the Arabic media interviewing an Anglo-American elite.  That should satisfy both of us?

*Jon Lee Anderson* (born January 15, 1957) is an American biographer, author, investigative reporter, war correspondent and staff writer for _The New Yorker_, reporting from war zones such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Uganda, Israel, El Salvador, Ireland, Lebanon, Iran, and throughout the Middle East as well as during Hurricane Katrina rescue efforts with K38 Water Safety as documented in the _New Yorker_ article _Leaving Desire_. Anderson has also written for _The New York Times_, _Harper's_, _Life_, and _The Nation_. Anderson has profiled political leaders such as Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, and Augusto Pinochet.[1]
Jon Lee Anderson - Wikipedia

*Jon Lee Anderson Q&A: Covering Venezuela poses serious challenges*
_Journalist Jon Lee Anderson discusses how foreign interests and misinformation make it difficult to report on Venezuela._
Jon Lee Anderson Q&A: Covering Venezuela poses serious challenges





Demonstrators clash with government security forces in Venezuela after opposition leader Juan Guaido calls for an uprising [Carlos Garcia Rawlins/Reuters]


*". . . Al Jazeera: In February, images of a humanitarian aid truck stationed at the Colombian border with Venezuela made news around the world when it was set alight. What did you make of this story and how foreign media managed it? *

*Anderson:* When you watched CNN, or Fox News, there was a clip where, apparently, a truck had been set on fire. Immediately, everybody went with that story. Within a couple of hours, Marco Rubio, the American senator, had tweeted that this was an outrageous act by the regime - he tweeted that to his millions of followers, and other politicians followed. One of the reasons why heads of state are now using social media is because they're aware of the power of it.

Within a few days it was just received wisdom that this evil regime had not only prevented the aid from coming in - which it did, we saw that they prevented the aid from coming in - but that they also burned it.

But as it turned out, it was one of the opposition demonstrators who had thrown a Molotov cocktail from the Colombian side of the bridge that landed in the truck - which went up in flames.

The Trump administration built up a story for several weeks that this was going to be the culminating moment of the standoff with the evil Maduro regime which could not feed its people, hadn't funded the hospitals, and that millions of people had fled.

Some of which is a fact: there is negligence, there's incompetence, there's ineptitude. And in a functioning democracy, normally, that government wouldn't stay in power.

Nonetheless, the Trump administration and its allies built in its entire Venezuela policy predicated on the idea that once they arrive to their aid at the border (and they had plenty of cheerleaders filming it and writing stories about it) that the Venezuelan military on the other side of the bridge would simply see the error of their ways and fall back and welcome in the aid and Maduro would slink off into some kind of humiliated exile. Well, that didn't happen.. . . . "


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> YOU can't seriously defend your position if you won't seriously examine your presuppositions. What makes Reuters international reporting "reliable," and their domestic coverage, "fake news?" Just because you say so, or it because it doesn't accord with your truth?


Reuters Anti-American Bias
Reuters makes Reuters an unreliable source of domestic news. It's their own biased unreliable reporting.

As far as the rest of your unbelievably lame bullshit, although bullshit at least has some value, unlike your ridiculous claims, I suppose we just have to take your word for the allegation that one of trucks filled with aid intended for starving, sickly Venezuelans victimized by their dictator was set ablaze by anti Maduro forces.
No proof provided. How convenient.
I suppose video of armored vehicles running down citizens and protestors being shot and attacked are just figments of imagination and a mass hallucination.
Same with the millions fleeing Venezuela for refuge in nearby nations because Venezuela has become a repressive socialist nightmare to try and live in. 

We do however have more reliable sources that report that 191 tons of humanitarian aid has been sent to the Colombian border for distribution to the suffering and Maduro the butcher has closed down the border in reprisal.
What a great guy!   The Latest: USAID: 191 tons of aid sent to Venezuela border


----------



## emilynghiem

CORRECTION: 2018 election polls added for comparison.
Note the REASON the Democratic Unity party did not appear in the second polls
after receiving almost half the votes in the 2013 election:



 



Eric Arthur Blair said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
> 
> 
> 
> As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He isn't a dictator.  He was elected.  Maybe if they were allowed to trade and were not under a siege, they could feed their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His election was illegitimate. Stop sucking Maduro's dick so hard.
Click to expand...


Dear MisterBeale Eric Arthur Blair
If we are not going to interject any political bias from outside
into this country's democratic process, then we should be neutral on both counts.




Given the vote was almost evenly split 50/50,
The best way to represent all the people of Venezuela would be to share the representation proportionally:
let all parties represent their interests and platforms through the leadership of their choice,
then form a coalition with the top two leaders to accommodate all parties equally so all people are included.

I read that Tulsi Gabbard and other Democrats have broken from their official party stance,
so instead of aligning with Trump, they are asking to recognize the democratically elected leadership.

Why not allow both to choose the leader that represents their beliefs, similar to having
both Protestant and Catholic churches lead their own people at the same time without conflict or domination of one over the other?

We could learn how to manage both major parties in our own country facing similar strife.

If the US is pushing a third party candidate to lead the government, why not make that a neutral facilitator
who brings in the other leaders and parties to form policies together.

People will quit fighting when they know they can be heard, included and represented by their own party and candidates of choice
without having to fight. So if people are still fighting, that means we haven't set this up properly (as churches no longer go to
war but have equal freedom to elect and manage their own administrations for their own followers. why not with parties?)


----------



## MisterBeale

emilynghiem said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
> 
> 
> 
> As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He isn't a dictator.  He was elected.  Maybe if they were allowed to trade and were not under a siege, they could feed their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His election was illegitimate. Stop sucking Maduro's dick so hard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dear MisterBeale Eric Arthur Blair
> If we are not going to interject any political bias from outside
> into this country's democratic process, then we should be neutral on both counts.
> 
> View attachment 260857
> Given the vote was almost evenly split 50/50,
> The best way to represent all the people of Venezuela would be to share the representation proportionally:
> let all parties represent their interests and platforms through the leadership of their choice,
> then form a coalition with the top two leaders to accommodate all parties equally so all people are included.
> 
> I read that Tulsi Gabbard and other Democrats have broken from their official party stance,
> so instead of aligning with Trump, they are asking to recognize the democratically elected leadership.
> 
> Why not allow both to choose the leader that represents their beliefs, similar to having
> both Protestant and Catholic churches lead their own people at the same time without conflict or domination of one over the other?
> 
> We could learn how to manage both major parties in our own country facing similar strife.
> 
> If the US is pushing a third party candidate to lead the government, why not make that a neutral facilitator
> who brings in the other leaders and parties to form policies together.
> 
> People will quit fighting when they know they can be heard, included and represented by their own party and candidates of choice
> without having to fight. So if people are still fighting, that means we haven't set this up properly (as churches no longer go to
> war but have equal freedom to elect and manage their own administrations for their own followers. why not with parties?)
Click to expand...

You have the wrong election.  

. . . and Wiki uses Reuters, so that doesn't get us anywhere.  Reuters pushes the Anglo-American Empire.


----------



## MisterBeale

Either way, I don't think it matters much.

The point is, the U.S. needs to stay out of Venezuelan affairs.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

emilynghiem said:


> Given the vote was almost evenly split 50/50,
> The best way to represent all the people of Venezuela would be to share the representation proportionally:
> let all parties represent their interests and platforms through the leadership of their choice,
> then form a coalition with the top two leaders to accommodate all parties equally so all people are included.


Either you didn't notice that all candidates you cited were from left wing socialist parties (with the possible exception of New Vision) or you are a lying propagandist.
Which is it, shill?


emilynghiem said:


> I read that Tulsi Gabbard and other Democrats have broken from their official party stance,
> so instead of aligning with Trump, they are asking to recognize the democratically elected leadership.


Was Maduro elected democratically and fairly? It doesn't look that way.


----------



## emilynghiem

MisterBeale said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Venezuela has a population of over 31 million.*
> 
> How many fled recently?
> 
> 
> 
> As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He isn't a dictator.  He was elected.  Maybe if they were allowed to trade and were not under a siege, they could feed their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His election was illegitimate. Stop sucking Maduro's dick so hard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dear MisterBeale Eric Arthur Blair
> If we are not going to interject any political bias from outside
> into this country's democratic process, then we should be neutral on both counts.
> 
> View attachment 260857
> Given the vote was almost evenly split 50/50,
> The best way to represent all the people of Venezuela would be to share the representation proportionally:
> let all parties represent their interests and platforms through the leadership of their choice,
> then form a coalition with the top two leaders to accommodate all parties equally so all people are included.
> 
> I read that Tulsi Gabbard and other Democrats have broken from their official party stance,
> so instead of aligning with Trump, they are asking to recognize the democratically elected leadership.
> 
> Why not allow both to choose the leader that represents their beliefs, similar to having
> both Protestant and Catholic churches lead their own people at the same time without conflict or domination of one over the other?
> 
> We could learn how to manage both major parties in our own country facing similar strife.
> 
> If the US is pushing a third party candidate to lead the government, why not make that a neutral facilitator
> who brings in the other leaders and parties to form policies together.
> 
> People will quit fighting when they know they can be heard, included and represented by their own party and candidates of choice
> without having to fight. So if people are still fighting, that means we haven't set this up properly (as churches no longer go to
> war but have equal freedom to elect and manage their own administrations for their own followers. why not with parties?)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have the wrong election.
> 
> . . . and Wiki uses Reuters, so that doesn't get us anywhere.  Reuters pushes the Anglo-American Empire.
Click to expand...


Thank you MisterBeale
I corrected this oversight by adding the 2018 election poll results at the top
so this can still be compared with the 2013 election polls that show the Democratic Unity party sharing about half the votes.

This shows that the party that normally represents half the nation
refused to participate and that's why their numbers weren't counted.

The reason for boycotting the election is the most revealing, so thank you for bringing this to my attention indirectly.

The opposing parties used this election to protest the skewed set up where it was not following democratic process.

I agree with you that no country including the US should inject our own opinion of how to fix this for other countries.
However, given that the other parties ARE calling for international support for oversight to help expose and correct it,
we do owe it to our fellow human beings who are calling to defend due process and equal civil and human rights.

We should support a democratic redress of grievances since they have called for help on a world stage.

I believe a side benefit of offering assistance would that it will also help America find more civil and neutral,
less biased ways, of protesting unequal representation in our country and political process as well.

If we can help facilitate a NEUTRAL platform and environment for all the parties in Venezuela to unite
in representing diversity of beliefs creed and interests among them, even conflicting factions of their own populations without discriminating against any of these groups to dominate over others, then we can learn how to master the same for the US that
has increasingly diverse and vocal factions all wanting representation and protection of our interests as well.

We all need to learn from this how to manage diversity of political beliefs democratically through govt,
as the churches have done managing different religious beliefs through independent administrations and programs.

From looking at the current backgrounds of the candidates running for President,
my guess is that Trump and Cortez should work together to arrange ways to accommodate them equally,
Gabbard could work with Ron Paul and Ralph Nader bringing together Libertarians and Progressives
including Sanders on cooperative approaches to economic and health care reforms,
while leaders such as Clinton and Beto could head up their own townships along the border
to prove their leadership skills in managing campus towns to accommodate workers and families
caught up in the border crisis.  Clinton and Beto seem to have the personality types where they have to lead and be in charge.

Trump and Cortez are like huge mouthpieces for others to follow,
but depend on the good ideas and solutions of others to cheerlead behind, 
and don't really lead these directly as Clinton and Beto can draw followers to work for them and build under their administration.

Gabbard seems more of a neutral facilitator type who can organize a system
by which all other parties and voices feel safe to participate and represent themselves.

The other candidates don't seem to have that, but tend to take a hard stance and reject and push others away who disagree.

If even these few leaders I list above, come together and bring their followers into a coalition effort,
the solutions they would come up with would create jobs for all the leadership styles represented,
and allow people of all parties to participate and replicate this coalition model regardless of creeds and beliefs by party.

Together they could pull it off. But fighting against each other as with Venezuela it tears the country apart.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

My apologies for the rudneness of post #462, Emily Nghiem. My edit function has gone haywire.and I didn't mean to address you in such a way.


----------



## emilynghiem

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given the vote was almost evenly split 50/50,
> The best way to represent all the people of Venezuela would be to share the representation proportionally:
> let all parties represent their interests and platforms through the leadership of their choice,
> then form a coalition with the top two leaders to accommodate all parties equally so all people are included.
> 
> 
> 
> Either you didn't notice that all candidates you cited were from left wing socialist parties (with the possible exception of New Vision) or you are a lying propagandist.
> Which is it, shill?
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read that Tulsi Gabbard and other Democrats have broken from their official party stance,
> so instead of aligning with Trump, they are asking to recognize the democratically elected leadership.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Maduro elected democratically and fairly? It doesn't look that way.
Click to expand...





Thank you Eric Arthur Blair for your additional correction.
Yes I went back and added the recent election results from 2018
that actually state the reasons certain parties did not show up in the polls.
So this confirms what you are saying that this election wasn't set up
to follow democratic due process.

However I do agree with MisterBeale and Tulsi Gabbard and others protesting
the WAY the US is intervening in trying to control the process or outcome by external bias and force.

The CORRECT way to help Venezuela to resolve this crisis would be to open up
the process for ALL the parties to have equal and safe representation. Anyone
who cannot participate civilly would be separated and worked with on the side until they can contribute safely
without coercion to dominate or exclude others. The country does need an intervention
but it should be done civilly not jumping in with military backing to fight physically for one side over others.

From my experience with conflict resolution in deadlock situations,
if you pick the right leaders and neutral parties, they DIFFUSE the fear and fight for power.

You don't escalate this by picking people or approaches that make people panic and fight more.

I would compare it to the negotiators who come in and talk REASON with the hostile militants
instead of enticing them to blow everyone up rather than compromise.

I don't think it's too late for diplomatic intervention and solutions.

I would agree with Trump and GOP once it escalates too far, and people are using deadly force,
then of course, military defense is required to even go into that situation to untangle the mess.

Trump should know that ego is involved. You can't attack someone's ego and expect them
to agree to work with you. Trump doesn't even respond to that, and nobody I know does.
That's where he went too far with North Korea, you don't insult the person you want to work with!

You address the problem, not attack the people or their leadership.
You include all the people in solving their own problems, and honor their commitment to this end.

If it's beyond the point of diplomatic inclusion as progressive advocates of peace and justice like me prefer,
then of course I understand that equal force is necessary to stop a bully using military force.

However, the MOTIVATION should be made clear first, to seek to unify and include,
not dismiss and exclude the leadership that still represents a strong portion of the population.

You don't want to make a war worse, you want to make it clear the support is for all people not just the "other side."


----------



## BasicHumanUnit

Sunni Man said:


> I have no doubt the CIA and other clandestine agencies are behind the coup taking place in Venezuela.   ...



Meh.  I heard it was the planters peanut guy.


----------



## MisterBeale

emilynghiem said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> As many as possibly could go. But that's not supposed to matter according to the dictator's quislings.
> 
> 
> 
> He isn't a dictator.  He was elected.  Maybe if they were allowed to trade and were not under a siege, they could feed their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His election was illegitimate. Stop sucking Maduro's dick so hard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dear MisterBeale Eric Arthur Blair
> If we are not going to interject any political bias from outside
> into this country's democratic process, then we should be neutral on both counts.
> 
> View attachment 260857
> Given the vote was almost evenly split 50/50,
> The best way to represent all the people of Venezuela would be to share the representation proportionally:
> let all parties represent their interests and platforms through the leadership of their choice,
> then form a coalition with the top two leaders to accommodate all parties equally so all people are included.
> 
> I read that Tulsi Gabbard and other Democrats have broken from their official party stance,
> so instead of aligning with Trump, they are asking to recognize the democratically elected leadership.
> 
> Why not allow both to choose the leader that represents their beliefs, similar to having
> both Protestant and Catholic churches lead their own people at the same time without conflict or domination of one over the other?
> 
> We could learn how to manage both major parties in our own country facing similar strife.
> 
> If the US is pushing a third party candidate to lead the government, why not make that a neutral facilitator
> who brings in the other leaders and parties to form policies together.
> 
> People will quit fighting when they know they can be heard, included and represented by their own party and candidates of choice
> without having to fight. So if people are still fighting, that means we haven't set this up properly (as churches no longer go to
> war but have equal freedom to elect and manage their own administrations for their own followers. why not with parties?)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have the wrong election.
> 
> . . . and Wiki uses Reuters, so that doesn't get us anywhere.  Reuters pushes the Anglo-American Empire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you MisterBeale
> I corrected this oversight by adding the 2018 election poll results at the top
> so this can still be compared with the 2013 election polls that show the Democratic Unity party sharing about half the votes.
> 
> This shows that the party that normally represents half the nation
> refused to participate and that's why their numbers weren't counted.
> 
> The reason for boycotting the election is the most revealing, so thank you for bringing this to my attention indirectly.
> 
> The opposing parties used this election to protest the skewed set up where it was not following democratic process.
> 
> I agree with you that no country including the US should inject our own opinion of how to fix this for other countries.
> However, given that the other parties ARE calling for international support for oversight to help expose and correct it,
> we do owe it to our fellow human beings who are calling to defend due process and equal civil and human rights.
> 
> We should support a democratic redress of grievances since they have called for help on a world stage.
> 
> I believe a side benefit of offering assistance would that it will also help America find more civil and neutral,
> less biased ways, of protesting unequal representation in our country and political process as well.
> 
> If we can help facilitate a NEUTRAL platform and environment for all the parties in Venezuela to unite
> in representing diversity of beliefs creed and interests among them, even conflicting factions of their own populations without discriminating against any of these groups to dominate over others, then we can learn how to master the same for the US that
> has increasingly diverse and vocal factions all wanting representation and protection of our interests as well.
> 
> We all need to learn from this how to manage diversity of political beliefs democratically through govt,
> as the churches have done managing different religious beliefs through independent administrations and programs.
> 
> From looking at the current backgrounds of the candidates running for President,
> my guess is that Trump and Cortez should work together to arrange ways to accommodate them equally,
> Gabbard could work with Ron Paul and Ralph Nader bringing together Libertarians and Progressives
> including Sanders on cooperative approaches to economic and health care reforms,
> while leaders such as Clinton and Beto could head up their own townships along the border
> to prove their leadership skills in managing campus towns to accommodate workers and families
> caught up in the border crisis.  Clinton and Beto seem to have the personality types where they have to lead and be in charge.
> 
> Trump and Cortez are like huge mouthpieces for others to follow,
> but depend on the good ideas and solutions of others to cheerlead behind,
> and don't really lead these directly as Clinton and Beto can draw followers to work for them and build under their administration.
> 
> Gabbard seems more of a neutral facilitator type who can organize a system
> by which all other parties and voices feel safe to participate and represent themselves.
> 
> The other candidates don't seem to have that, but tend to take a hard stance and reject and push others away who disagree.
> 
> If even these few leaders I list above, come together and bring their followers into a coalition effort,
> the solutions they would come up with would create jobs for all the leadership styles represented,
> and allow people of all parties to participate and replicate this coalition model regardless of creeds and beliefs by party.
> 
> Together they could pull it off. But fighting against each other as with Venezuela it tears the country apart.
Click to expand...


I completely agree.  We should help promote free and fair elections if the current regime wants to appear to have them.  I am not sure that is the case. 

In this, I would agree with Eric.  OTH, going so far as to declare Maduro a "brutal dictator" because he will not allow a pawn of the corportatists or the CIA to take over?  

As we saw in all of the previous posts by Eric, he supports this guy Guaido as president?  Someone whom none of the Venezuelan people voted for as president.  He didn't get any votes as president, and the U.S. certainly should not be throwing support behind him as president, that is even MORE antidemocratic than supporting the current president.  It would be like declaring Ted Cruz President because the Democrats didn't think the election was fair.  Ted Cruz would NOT be an adequate representation for all of America just because an election is in question.  That is NOT an acceptable solution.

If one really wants to understand what is going on in Venezuela and why the current regime is so suspicious of the global corporatists, one needs to understand how outside forces had previously attempted to subvert the will of the sovereign people of Venezuela, even going so far as kidnapping Chavez, and having multiple attempts on his life.

Chavez for years allowed a free press owned by global corporations which did great harm to the masses, and they fought his programs, they treated him much the way the current national media treats Trump.

Now, it is my belief that Maduro feels all that progress is threatened so he takes what in reality amounts to undemocratic moves to "protect the revolution."  Nothing could be further from the reality.  He is an awful politician and an awful leader.  However, this is none of our business, and it certainly does not justify sanctions, because we do not condone the choice of the Venezuelan people.

If the Chavistas would agree to our conditions for free and fair elections along with other international observers, with the Russians and Chinese, and if these conditions were laid out in writing, with poll watchers of all nations, with the promise of normalization of trade and having assets unfrozen as a carrot to abide by this compromise, I think a solution could be reached.

But here is the problem Emily.  The folks that the MSM, the CFR propagandists, that have always told the story that Eric and others are believing in this thread want to tell us wouldn't want that.  So I don't think the U.S. would have any interest in such a solution. 

WHY?  Because they know who the Venezuelan people will vote for.  They might have lost faith in Maduro in particular, but they HAVE NOT lost faith in Cavesista politics.  And for Americans like Eric, letting the Venezuelans have the sovereign ability to choose their own destiny, even if it means socialism, is intolerable as long as they are sitting on, what he believes, is _our_ oil.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

emilynghiem said:


> Thank you Eric Arthur Blair for your additional correction.
> Yes I went back and added the recent election results from 2018
> that actually state the reasons certain parties did not show up in the polls.
> So this confirms what you are saying that this election wasn't set up
> to follow democratic due process.


Yes. The idea that dictator Maduro won a fair and square election is nonsense and the people peddling that idea are disingenuous at best.


emilynghiem said:


> However I do agree with MisterBeale and Tulsi Gabbard and others protesting
> the WAY the US is intervening in trying to control the process or outcome by external bias and force.


Here I do not agree. The U.S. has agreed with the rest of the developed world (save for China and Russia) that Maduro must step down and stop abusing the people of Venezuela.
Trump has sent tons of humanitarian aid which, as far as I can tell, has not gotten to the people, thanks to Maduro once more.

Sanctions and political pressure are proper means by which we compel dictators to leave and if not for Russia, Maduro would be gone by now. The suffering in Venezuela is great and I'm wondering when the UN might feel like they should step in though I can't help but ask does the leadership there have the guts to stand up to a socialist head of state? I doubt it.


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## caddo kid

this coup has to be the LONGEST COUP IN HISTORY

I guess the  Venezuelan  people are on the  fence ..............

Just as long as Trump, Pompeo, and Bolton keep their snotty noses outta Venezuela's business they should be just fine.

Maybe when they get this all figured out Trump could fly down there and toss the  Venezuelans some paper towels.


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## Eric Arthur Blair

MisterBeale said:


> As we saw in all of the previous posts by Eric, he supports this guy Guaido as president? Someone whom none of the Venezuelan people voted for as president. He didn't get any votes as president, and the U.S. certainly should not be throwing support behind him as president, that is even MORE antidemocratic than supporting the current president. It would be like declaring Ted Cruz President because the Democrats didn't think the election was fair. Ted Cruz would NOT be an adequate representation for all of America just because an election is in question. That is NOT an acceptable solution.


I support Guidado as an interim president because of the chaos in Venezuela and because so many citizens of the nation have fled the country ( likely because they are opposed to Maduro). 
He is in Colombia right now, news reports say, and he has the trust and support of the EU and the US, Canada, Australia, etc. 
I agree elections once Venezuela is restored to sanity would be the proper course, whenever that might be.


----------



## emilynghiem

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Eric Arthur Blair for your additional correction.
> Yes I went back and added the recent election results from 2018
> that actually state the reasons certain parties did not show up in the polls.
> So this confirms what you are saying that this election wasn't set up
> to follow democratic due process.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. The idea that dictator Maduro won a fair and square election is nonsense and the people peddling that idea are disingenuous at best.
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> However I do agree with MisterBeale and Tulsi Gabbard and others protesting
> the WAY the US is intervening in trying to control the process or outcome by external bias and force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here I do not agree. The U.S. has agreed with the rest of the developed world (save for China and Russia) that Maduro must step down and stop abusing the people of Venezuela.
> Trump has sent tons of humanitarian aid which, as far as I can tell, has not gotten to the people, thanks to Maduro once more.
> 
> Sanctions and political pressure are proper means by which we compel dictators to leave and if not for Russia, Maduro would be gone by now. The suffering in Venezuela is great and I'm wondering when the UN might feel like they should step in though I can't help but ask does the leadership there have the guts to stand up to a socialist head of state? I doubt it.
Click to expand...


From what I learned about the Iraqi Sanctions, this approach
still hurts the people used as collective collateral damage for political pressure.
(The Iraqi Sanctions were so devastating, the losses of life were worse than the war.
5000 infants and children were reported dying per month from Sanctions, though this
number was underreported because infants were harder to verify and count. Source for
this was the Iraqi Notebook, Houston Peace News, that compiled reports from other sources)

To prevent from having to resort to such extreme measures that harm the very people intended to defend, what countries need to do when their population grows this diverse in political groupings is form coalitions similar to the Congress having reps from STATES but have reps from PARTIES. The same way we don't need states fighting each other, we don't need parties causing civil wars. So why not have a union of sovereign parties governing their own members the way we recognize sovereign states under a unified national govt at the same time?

Then these parties can have facilitation and assistance with conflict resolution so these groups can address and mediate conflicts, either agreeing to resolve or to separate on issues they cannot settle otherwise. If we have such structures in place, then BEFORE conflict escalates into coercion, abuse and war, then additional help can be brought in to consult with the reps that are established already and try to salvage the diplomatic process BEFORE it escalates beyond the point of no return. This would preserve their leadership without threat, by MEDIATION which protects the rights and interests of parties in representing and forming their own solution. NOT IMPOSING by one group over others, or by outside influence or coercion.

But we'd have to set up a recognized party representation BEFORE that, not wait until it goes too far,
and then scramble to find which people or parties represent which groups. Under pressure, that
process never works but people compromise for expedience
and don't find the right leaders who could have untangled the messes.

America could also use our current party system to set up reps per District by party
to participate in conflict resolution and proposing position statements to Congress.

Why wait until elections to fight it out. Why not have a regular process for redressing
grievances and solving conflicts directly between opposing factions and parties we already know exist?


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## Eric Arthur Blair

emilynghiem said:


> From what I learned about the Iraqi Sanctions, this approach
> still hurts the people used as collective collateral damage for political pressure.


The argument against sanctions is like the argument against God: I agree the idea of God is somewhat absurd but the alternative...a universe that just somehow happens to exist is even more absurd.

That is...sanctions are painful  but leaving Maduro untouched, and with Putin's backing, may be even more painful and certainly more long lasting for the people of Venezuela. 

A brief military action by a coalition led military force might be the best option if the fighting were surgically applied but
most people oppose the idea so for the people of Venezuela the choice might be dying a long painful death or perhaps a quick short one. Tragic but there are no good options when a butcher seizes power.


----------



## emilynghiem

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I learned about the Iraqi Sanctions, this approach
> still hurts the people used as collective collateral damage for political pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> The argument against sanctions is like the argument against God: I agree the idea of God is somewhat absurd but the alternative...a universe that just somehow happens to exist is even more absurd.
> 
> That is...sanctions are painful  but leaving Maduro untouched, and with Putin's backing, may be even more painful and certainly more long lasting for the people of Venezuela.
> 
> A brief military action by a coalition led military force might be the best option if the fighting were surgically applied but
> most people oppose the idea so for the people of Venezuela the choice might be dying a long painful death or perhaps a quick short one. Tragic but there are no good options when a butcher seizes power.
Click to expand...


Dear Eric Arthur Blair 
Yes and no. There are time such as in military tactics,
soldiers such as Chris Kyle end up having to shoot children used to kill more people.

We would all agree the ideal is to prevent from having to go that far in the first place.

Sure more people would die if we don't take action.
But we still should seek to prevent people from dying at all if we took action sooner
in more effective ways than having to resort to sanctions against such a corrupt
govt that it is going to kill its own people.

This is like negotiating with terrorists or kidnappers trying not to lose hostages.
We don't want to win at the expense of too many hostages dying to win that standoff.

What Betty Williams lobbied for as a Nobel Laureate from Ireland,
is to set up safe havens for moving women, children and civilians out of the way
before you resort to wars between the military personnel agreeing to engage in battles.

The equivalent with sanctions is to set up safe outlets for the populations to 
receive aid, while negotiations are made with the corrupt group being targeted.
And don't mix the collective population with the bad guys any more than
police should be shooting the hostages to get to the bank robbers.

The beauty of this solution is by the time we organize that well,
we should prevent and solve the problem of corruption that hides behind people in mass.

We set up transparency that would prevent sanctions.
and this means we set up transparency that prevents abuse, corruption and war from escalating to that point in the first place.


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## Eric Arthur Blair

Maduro has blocked all entry to Colombia from Venezuela effectively cutting off humanitarian aid to people who fled there
because it (the aid) could not be distributed under Maduro's dictatorship in Venezuela. 
Like I said I'm afraid there are no good solutions for the people left in Venezuela. Putin has complicated everything.

Perhaps applying pressure on Russia to take in Maduro in exile but I doubt Putin will want to let go of access to the oil there. 
If you have a good solution let everyone know.


----------



## emilynghiem

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Maduro has blocked all entry to Colombia from Venezuela effectively cutting off humanitarian aid to people who fled there
> because it (the aid) could not be distributed under Maduro's dictatorship in Venezuela.
> Like I said I'm afraid there are no good solutions for the people left in Venezuela. Putin has complicated everything.
> 
> Perhaps applying pressure on Russia to take in Maduro in exile but I doubt Putin will want to let go of access to the oil there.
> If you have a good solution let everyone know.



If the government connections are cut off,
that's where I would look for where there are spiritual
connections.  I would have to know which people "on the inside" have connections and influence with Maduro.

With Saddam Hussein, his top general was a God fearing Christian man that Hussein respected. What is the equivalent in this situation?

In conflicts as much as there is triangulation, and someone like Putin benefiting from worsening the conflict; there is also some position or person of influence who if given more support can have the opposite effect and diffuse the pressure.

Like I said before, we should not wait until conflicts escalate to this degree, because then there's too much pressure and it's harder to find those connections. This ideally should be done in advance. In communities I saw destroyed by bigger bullies there were ALWAYS local leaders with enough community support that if they had gotten proper support, none of the destruction would happen. Where are those connections WITHIN the community, that's where the solution lies. Among the very people on the inside who have been fighting these battles on the ground and have survived for a reason. Where are they and how do we support them?


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## longknife

I read where China is flying in medical supplies. No word on how they're going to be disseminated or to whom.


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## emilynghiem

longknife said:


> I read where China is flying in medical supplies. No word on how they're going to be disseminated or to whom.



Well longknife and Eric Arthur Blair
if Sanctions are the only way to get the politics out of it, and only the
NONPROFIT charities such as Chinese medical support or groups
like "Doctors without Borders" or Intl Red Cross can get in,
that may be the closest to what I was saying about bypassing
govt relations that got blocked. 

I said spiritual connections, but "humanitarian" connections
would be the equivalent here, the NONPOLITICAL nongovernmental outreach
that is truly universal for the sake of basic needs and NOTHING to do with taking political sides.

THAT's the type of "connections" I am talking about working.

And in the end, those are the "connections" that should be developed
from the beginning to be the most stable and NOT tied in politically with who's in govt,
and thus more sustainable in the long run.

The COOPERATIVE approach to building social programs and economic base.
My previous msgs are about focusing there IN ADVANCE to ensure stable
growth and development, and not waiting until conflicts escalate to find out
those connections aren't in place. By their very nature, those kind of sustainable
programs would prevent the political and military messes. So the solution is self-defining and self-fulfilling.

What we as Americans can learn from this is, again, that social programs are more
stable, universal, and sustainable when they are INDEPENDENT of politically run govt.

The access to health care and basic needs should NEVER be given up to "govt controls"
because then people lose their leverage at the "mercy of govt", and govt power can be used against them, instead of people holding their own power OVER govt to keep govt in check.

When people organize resources through their own nonprofit connections, then at any time a group changes, people can immediate ask help from a different group. You retain free choice,
unlike going through national govt which can take years to pass reforms or vote in new admin through the election process. The nationalized level should be reserved for set functions that don't involve personal beliefs and individualized decisions such as health care and social programs requiring localized service and one-on-one relations to answer DIRECTLY to the people instead of going through govt as a bureaucratic middleman.

We'll see if the Chinese aid gets through, or if other nonprofits can be nonpolitical enough to gain access.  

It could be the Venezuelan Govt only allows the Chinese Govt to help if they have the same philosophy.  Thus, if Socialists want to form their own international network where they only trust each other's members and leaders, this would be similar to the Catholic church having an international network to get resources from one region to another through their organizations.

If so, that should be up to the people to CHOOSE to be members of such a religious organizational network, or in this case a Political Religion if it's all Socialist Workers
who want to unite and run their programs this way. The same way Catholics have a choice, or Muslims can choose their organizations and leaders to run them, the Socialists should respect freedom of choice as well for their members instead of forcing their regime on unwilling participants.

Democratic Socialism could still work, but given this risk of corruption abuse and  oppression, I would even more strongly recommend Constitutional checks and balances to be enforced by educating and empowering all the workers and members to share equal stake and responsibility in government. Especially if you are going to continue taking this risk of embedding the SOCIAL programs and health care into govt, it is absolutely KEY to ensure that people have as direct check and representation as possible. So it's even MORE critical to have Constitutional authority in place to check govt if you are going to implement Socialism!!


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## Eric Arthur Blair

A nice trick if you can pull it off.


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## P F Tinmore

The purpose of the coup is to put the oligarchs back in power. This is never a good thing.


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## P F Tinmore

*Despite Threats & No Electricity, Anti-Coup Activists Remain inside Venezuelan Embassy in D.C.*

**


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## P F Tinmore

Different time - same script.

*The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Chavez, The 2002 Coup*

**


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## P F Tinmore

*The situation with the Venezuelan Embassy in Washington D.C. - Press Conference (15 May 2019)*

**


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## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Excellent!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Trump Admin Breaks and Enters Venezuela’s Embassy, Arrests Activists*

**


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## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Trump Admin Breaks and Enters Venezuela’s Embassy, Arrests Activists*
> 
> **



Anything else on YouTube we need to know about?


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## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Trump Admin Breaks and Enters Venezuela’s Embassy, Arrests Activists*
> 
> **



Did they use batons on the commies?


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## P F Tinmore

*  Watch | The Top Five Special Interests Pushing Regime Change in Venezuela  *
 
*Think about who gets rich off of the Venezuela regime-change agenda. It’s the same people that said we had to invade Iraq in order to prevent nuclear apocalypse. It’s the same people who said the world would stop turning on its axis if we didn’t carpet bomb Libya and Syria. *


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## P F Tinmore

*  Massive Embezzlement Scandal Threatens Juan Guaido’s Political Future  *
 
*The big event that was supposed to be Guaido’s watershed moment has instead turned out to be a public-relations failure far worse than his quickly quelled attempted military coup.*

The political party of Juan Guaido — Voluntad Popular (Popular Will) — was never all that popular to begin with. The
sixth largest political party in Venezuela, Popular Will is heavily financed by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). Now, a recently exposed embezzlement scandal in Colombia risks to further alienate the party from the Venezuelan people.

What was supposed to be Guaido’s watershed moment has instead turned out to be a public-relations failure far worse than his quickly quelled attempted military coup, which MintPress News reported caused even the New York Times to describe Guaido as “deflated.”

What happened in Colombia appears to be so damning that not only is the Colombian intelligence service leaking documents exposing wrongdoing by Popular Will representatives appointed by Guaido, but the Organization of American States (OAS) — which is typically just as pro-opposition as the Colombian government — has called for an investigation.


----------

