# Saudi beauty queen



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 26, 2009)

Saudi beauty queen Aya Ali al-Mulla trounced 274 rivals to win a crown, jewelry, cash and a trip to Malaysia-- all without showing her face, Saudi media reported Friday.
With her face and body completely covered by the black head-to-toe abaya mandatory in the conservative Muslim kingdom, 18-year-old Mulla was named "Queen of Beautiful Morals" late Thursday, newspapers reported.

There was none of the swimsuit and evening gown competitions and heavy media coverage of beauty pageants elsewhere when the contest was decided in the eastern city of Safwa.

Instead, the winner and the two runner-up princesses had to undergo a three-month test of their dutifulness to their parents and family, and their service to society.

This included a battery of personal, cultural, social and psychological tests, Al-Watan reported....

Saudi beauty queen wins without showing her face


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## Kalam (Jul 26, 2009)

Even Saudi Arabia has beautiful and capable women.

Muna Abu-Sulayman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## xotoxi (Jul 26, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Even Saudi Arabia has beautiful and capable women.
> 
> Muna Abu-Sulayman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
Praying men turn away from Mecca when she walks in the room!


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## xotoxi (Jul 26, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


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She has SMOKIN' pupils!!!


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## Kalam (Jul 26, 2009)

xotoxi said:


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Check out that nose bridge...


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## xotoxi (Jul 26, 2009)

Kalam said:


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Her skull is so symmetrical.


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## Kalam (Jul 26, 2009)

These outfits don't leave much to the imagination, do they?


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## del (Jul 26, 2009)

Kalam said:


> These outfits don't leave much to the imagination, do they?


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## sitarro (Jul 26, 2009)

Kalam said:


> These outfits don't leave much to the imagination, do they?



They leave everything to the imagination.


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## Emma (Jul 27, 2009)

She has very kind, intelligent eyes.


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## Neser Boha (Jul 27, 2009)

Kalam said:


> xotoxi said:
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## mal (Jul 28, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Even Saudi Arabia has beautiful and capable women.
> 
> Muna Abu-Sulayman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Why would she Disgrace her Family and Allah by Exposing her Face to the Public?...

The Whore.



peace...


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## mal (Jul 28, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Even Saudi Arabia has beautiful and capable women.
> 
> Muna Abu-Sulayman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Why doesn't Wiki have a Picture of her?...



peace...


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## brewerboy (Jul 28, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Even Saudi Arabia has beautiful and capable women.
> 
> Muna Abu-Sulayman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Well hot damn.

Shes got some DSL.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 28, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Saudi beauty queen Aya Ali al-Mulla trounced 274 rivals to win a crown, jewelry, cash and a trip to Malaysia-- all without showing her face, Saudi media reported Friday.
> With her face and body completely covered by the black head-to-toe abaya mandatory in the conservative Muslim kingdom, 18-year-old Mulla was named "Queen of Beautiful Morals" late Thursday, newspapers reported.
> 
> There was none of the swimsuit and evening gown competitions and heavy media coverage of beauty pageants elsewhere when the contest was decided in the eastern city of Safwa.
> ...



Sounds like an auction.


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


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Perhaps they're all copyrighted. Why, you want more?


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## mal (Jul 29, 2009)

Kalam said:


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Hell yeah... She's a Car Bomb Full of Hot...



peace...


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

xotoxi said:


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

tha malcontent said:


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What a shame that she covers what I assume is an awsome head of hair.

If I had to wear one of those, I would save all kinds of money on hair products. 

I went to cosmotology school with a Muslim woman. That was weird cuz, when we did her hair we had to do it in private. She had the most beatiful long hair. No men were allowed to see her beautiful hair. Her name was Saeeda. She was a good friend of mine. I miss her. Last I heard from her she was distraught over not being allowed to divorce her husband, even though he no longer lived with her, and her husband was sending one of her boys to a school in the ME, he had already sent one, which she had not seen for 2 years at that point


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

Yup. Men can divorce their wives by just saying they're divorced, and subsequently take all their property, their children. Even their lives, in many Muslim countries.

Women, however, have to go through years of hell....and lose their kids, their $$ and everything else in the interim.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Yup. Men can divorce their wives by just saying they're divorced, and subsequently take all their property, their children. Even their lives, in many Muslim countries.
> 
> Women, however, have to go through years of hell....and lose their kids, their $$ and everything else in the interim.


 

Exactly. Her life was so sad.  I would take her home after work. She told me so much. We always laughed after school, she was one of my closest friends. I have tried to find her, but to no avail


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> What a shame that she covers what I assume is an awsome head of hair.


For the sake of modesty? Why? I think she's perfectly fine looking the way she's dressed. 



PixieStix said:


> I went to cosmotology school with a Muslim woman. That was weird cuz, when we did her hair we had to do it in private. She had the most beatiful long hair. No men were allowed to see her beautiful hair. Her name was Saeeda. She was a good friend of mine. I miss her. Last I heard from her she was distraught over not being alloed to divorce her husband, even though he no longer lived with her, and her husband was sending one of her boys to a school in the ME


Not allowing a wife to divorce a poor husband is un-Islamic. This sister's predicament is unfortunate and she has my sympathy.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Kalam said:


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Unfortunate? Indeed. I want to see her. But her faith would not allow her to openly be my friend. I had to just be a ride home. I was not allowed to call her, because she followed this, and she was very afraid. Especially for her boys 

Muhammad, upon visiting hell, found that most of its inhabitants were women, because they were ungrateful to their husbands. He said that women were deficient in their intelligence, as evidenced by the fact that the testimony of a woman is worth half of a man; and deficient in faith, as evidenced by the fact that women cannot fast nor pray while menstruating (Sahih Muslim). It is related in the Sirat Rasul Allah (pg 644), 


[A] Woman came to (Mu'adh) and said, 'O companion of God's apostle, what rights has a husband over his wife?' He said, 'Woe to you, a woman can never fulfil her husband's rights, so do your utmost to fulfil his claims as best you can.' She said, 'By God, if you are the companion of God's apostle you must know what rights a husband has over his wife!' He said, 'If you were to go back and find him with his nostrils running with pus and blood and sucked until you got rid of them you would not have fulfilled your obligation.'
A poor husband? He was not poor


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

Thank goodness Mohommed's hell is a fantasy.

I was looking for show clothing to show my Arab in. I got depressed checking out the female garb....I want to dress like a bedouin MAN, which is of course, punishable by death...

But then Muslim women can't ride horses. They have to ride camels.


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Unfortunate? Indeed. I want to see her. But her faith would not allow her to openly be my friend. I had to just be a ride home. I was not allowed to call her, because she followed this, and she was very afraid. Especially for her boys


Sounds to me like you're interest in her is limited to using her predicament to slander her religion. Not that I'm surprised. You people are willing to go to such lengths to convince yourself that Islam is "evil." 



PixieStix said:


> It is related in the Sirat Rasul Allah (pg 644),


An inaccurate biography of the prophet written nearly two centuries after his death? Why are you quoting this as if it's some sort of authoritative religious text? If I wanted to make a point and be taken seriously, I'd flip through the Qur'an instead of pulling quotes from Ibn Ishaq's nonsense. 



PixieStix said:


> A poor husband? He was not poor


Are you really this thick or are you pulling my leg?


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Thank goodness Mohommed's hell is a fantasy.


Ibn Ishaq's fantasy. 



AllieBaba said:


> I was looking for show clothing to show my Arab in. I got depressed checking out the female garb....


Am I supposed to feel sorry for you?



AllieBaba said:


> I want to dress like a bedouin MAN,


Sounds like a personal problem. 



AllieBaba said:


> which is of course, punishable by death...


According to which verse of the Qur'an?



AllieBaba said:


> But then Muslim women can't ride horses. They have to ride camels.


According to which verse of the Qur'an?


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Kalam said:


> PixieStix said:
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> > Unfortunate? Indeed. I want to see her. But her faith would not allow her to openly be my friend. I had to just be a ride home. I was not allowed to call her, because she followed this, and she was very afraid. Especially for her boys
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Oh please, I care for her, with a genuine heart for a human being. This was quite sometime ago, before I knew much of Islam. You are slandering my genuine care for her. Hypocrit! 

You want to use my genuine care for her, as a way to justify mohammeds hate toward women. 




I am being sarcastic about the poor thing. Why did you say "poor husband" ?????? I want to get to the bottom of that

Her husband was a major asshole, he beat her with the blessing of the so called faith.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

Kalam said:


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A POOR husband? WTF?

Islamic women who leave or want to divorce their husbands freqently get attacked by sympathetic Islam men.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

"Poor" husband is some of that lying doublespeak I was talking about.

Your friend is either in hiding, being held prisoner, or dead. Sorry, it's horrible.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> "Poor" husband is some of that lying doublespeak I was talking about.
> 
> Your friend is either in hiding, being held prisoner, or dead. Sorry, it's horrible.


 
Both of her boys were sent to lebanon. I wonder what happened to my dear friend. I think of her often. Her American name is Barbara, after she converted at the age of 16, her name became Saeeda. which means "Happy" in arabic. But she was so sad.


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Oh please, I care for her, with a genuine heart for a human being. This was quite sometime ago, before I knew much of Islam.


Given your track record of idiocy and small-minded bigotry where Islam is concerned, I don't feel inclined to believe that you genuinely care about her. 



PixieStix said:


> You are slandering my genuine care for her. Hypocrit!


Cry me a river. The circus is in town here every day and lamely slandering my religion is one of the main attractions. 



PixieStix said:


> You want to use my genuine care for her, as a way to justify mohammeds hate toward women.


This is the type of nonsense that even _I_ am not willing to dignify with a proper response.  



PixieStix said:


> I am being sarcastic about the poor thing. Why did you say "poor husband" ?????? I want to get to the bottom of that


Are you unfamiliar with the meaning of "poor"? 

Women in Islam - Part 10- Divorce ?


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Kalam, your lack of concern and even your downright, hatred for me, will not negate what women in Islam have to deal with, and especially my friend Saeeda.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Maybe Saeeda, took my advice and divorced his punk ass. But then again, probably not, her boys were the issue for her, because they were no longer in the states, she had zero control, according to her husband.

I would rather die than give up my babies to some freaking middle eastern country


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Kalam, your lack of concern and even your downright, hatred for me,


I resent your willful ignorance and religious bigotry. 

I don't know you well enough to hate you and, at the moment, I don't wish to get to know you. I imagine you feel similarly. 



PixieStix said:


> will not negate what women in Islam have to deal with, and especially my friend Saeeda.


Your copied and pasted attempts at slandering Islam won't diminish the religion's true nature. Your projection of a woman's predicament onto all Muslimahs and onto the Islamic religion itself won't diminish the religion's true nature or the strength that Muslim women draw from their commitment to it.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 29, 2009)

She was 29 in the second picture.Yeah Islam is good for women


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)




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## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 29, 2009)




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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

Islam loves women, dammit! And if you're a woman, and you dare to refute it, welcome to hell...and in the meantime, abuse, kidnapping, and ultimately death.


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


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We could go on forever.


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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I think that many women who wear hijab (as she does)  are quite beautiful; it frames the face and accentuates the eyes and some of the materials and designs are simply gorgeous. 

Perhaps I'm a bit biased because of my job.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

It's beautiful until you're forced to wear it.

Check out some Muslim clothing websites sometime. Or better yet, Egyptian clothing websites.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Emma said:


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What does your job have to do with your being bias? 

I think she is beautiful, I never said otherwise.

 But what about the rest of my post?
Oh don't tell me, your "bias" won't allow objectivity, or maybe just maybe, Saeeda, is just another stat? 
Oh well, people are quite heartless, when it comes to their bias


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> It's beautiful until you're forced to wear it.
> 
> Check out some Muslim clothing websites sometime. Or better yet, Egyptian clothing websites.



Like I said, very beautiful. 

Hijab Online | Buy Hijabs and Pins | Bonnets and Scarves

I know of Muslim women who _choose_ to wear hijab, and of many who do not feel "forced". And if it is a part of their religious expression, _so what?_ 

hijab


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

They can choose whatever they want to wear.

But most Islam women don't wear it because they want to. They wear it because if they don't, they're beaten, their children are taken, and they are imprisoned by their families.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Emma said:


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Great, then go buy yourself one, I will pass thanks.


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

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Um. I have no idea where you get all of that. 

I have worked for over 25 years with cancer patients. I'm used to seeing women in headscarves and they are radiant and beautiful. Including my own mother. 

 That is my bias I speak of. 

As far as your friend, I'm sorry. I do pray she is safe and with her children.

 I have known men of all religions (and of no religion) who've treated their wives and families badly. Using religion as an excuse to abuse others is as low as you can get, IMO; I don't care who you are or what Holy book you use. I also believe those who do so purposely distort the message (of any religion) to justify their behaviour. 

 Did you read the link posted above about Muslim women and divorce?


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

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Who you going to pray to? Allah? Allahs message is clear. 

Goodnight and don't pray unless you mean it and please don't ask mohammed's god for any more favors, he has done enough for women, thank you


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> They can choose whatever they want to wear.
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> *But most Islam women don't wear it because they want to. *


And you have something to back up that statement?


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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I think I'm beginning to understand the above posts to you. 

Why so snippy?


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

Sure, Emma. And if you were to actually read up on the subject, so would you.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Emma said:


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Because you are apparently a woman, who doesn't know nor understand the oppression, nor do you seem to care


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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Damn lol. 

Not that it's any of your concern, but I'm a Christian. 

Does that mean my prayers will get the pixiestix seal of approval?


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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Yes, I'm a woman, and yes, I care. What I'm _not_ is a bigot.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Emma said:


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Well, good

See my sigline for reference. Have a good night Ms Emma

In other words, I don't care what you think of me


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

I guess it's considered bigoted these days to stand up for the vulnerable and oppressed.


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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Enemies?



You're a trip. 

'nite.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

Emma said:


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Welcome to the army of naive, delusional nitwits.
Nite.


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Sure, Emma. And if you were to actually read up on the subject, so would you.



It's getting late. Why don't you provide links to your statistics, polls, research that proves "most Islam women don't wear it because they want to".


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I guess it's considered bigoted these days to stand up for the vulnerable and oppressed.


 
Yeah I think it started when the terrorists instilled fear on 9-11. Before that, people were oblivious, and ignorant, now they are simply scared, and political correctness has over taken their minds


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I guess it's considered bigoted these days to stand up for the vulnerable and oppressed.



I wasn't calling anyone here a bigot. I said _I'm_ not a bigot. I know that there are abuses in the name of religion. I am not going to disparage an entire religion because of their actions.


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


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I wouldn't go that far. You people seem nice enough. But as a relative newbie, I thank you for the welcome. 

'Nite.


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## xotoxi (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Muhammad, upon visiting hell, found that most of its inhabitants were women...


 

Send me to Hell!


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

Emma said:


> AllieBaba said:
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What about Mohammed, the Prophet of Islam, will you judge him, on his examples? The examples are there for the peoiple to follow, that is what the Sunnah is. 

The way of life prescribed as normative in Islam, based on the teachings and practices of Muhammad and on exegesis of the Koran. Also called _hadith_. 
Muhammad's way of life viewed as a model for Muslims.
Read it, and get back to us, and tell us then that Mohammed wasn't a bigot, a woman hating maniac.


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

PixieStix said:


> Yeah I think it started when the terrorists instilled fear on 9-11. Before that, people were oblivious, and ignorant, now they are simply scared, and political correctness has over taken their minds


You mean the terrorists won?


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I guess it's considered bigoted these days to stand up for the vulnerable and oppressed.


Don't pat yourself on the back too hard. You could care less about the plight of some women in Islam - for you, it's simply a convenient excuse to spout bigoted nonsense.


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2009)

xotoxi said:


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2009)

Kalam said:


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No, for me it's about encouraging people to fight the pigs in Darfur and other strongholds of Islam where women are raped and degraded.

Nice try, though.


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## Kalam (Jul 29, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


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I openly support armed resistance against militiamen in Darfur. I'm an ardent supporter of gender equality in Islam and I believe that rape should be a capital offense. All of my religious positions are based on Islamic teachings, so be more careful with that broad brush of yours.


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## Emma (Jul 29, 2009)

Kalam said:


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Thanks to you both for that.


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## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

lol

All because I said I thought hijab are attractive


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## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Kalam said:


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So you're one of those "moderate" muslims.

"There is no such thing as moderate Islam. There is no such thing as secular Islam or a secular Muslim. It's the nature of the faith to deny any separation of religion and the state or religion and society. There are numerous sects within Islam. One and all are extremes and not in the least amenable to change. Keep in mind that Islam claims that it is the perfect eternal faith for mankind. Splits have occurred and will continue to occur in Islam. Yet, reformation has not happened in nearly 1400 years and is not going to happen. Islam is carved in granite, just the way it is. No change. Allah's book is sealed. 


There are indeed some Muslims who are moderate in the way they practice their religion. These people, for the most part, are culturally Muslims. They don't practice Islam the way it is mandated. They pick and choose. Therefore, "moderate Islam," is no Islam at all. It is not possible."
American Thinker: Moderate Islam Is No Islam


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## PixieStix (Jul 30, 2009)

Emma said:


> lol
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> All because I said I thought hijab are attractive


 
No need for you to take credit

Maybe you do not understand, maybe you do, it is not about the hijab, it is about oppression..ect


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## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> So you're one of those "moderate" muslims.


I'm a Muslim who is familiar with the teachings of his religion. Whether following them as I do makes me "moderate" or not, I don't know or care. Nor do I care about the half-baked opinions of some fringe lunatic apostate. I deal with factual information.


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## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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If a woman chooses to express her faith in how she dresses, that is no one's business, nor do I consider it 'oppression'. 

Do you get this worked up over Amish women dressing as they do? Or perhaps women of the Pentecostal Holiness faith? My best friend in nursing school was of that faith, and dressed plain, in long skirts and long sleeve shirts, and without makeup or any other adornments, hair severely tied back. That was part of her faith. It was part of who she _was_. Why are you so intent on condemning Muslim women for doing the same according to their faith and beliefs? 

THAT is oppression.


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## PixieStix (Jul 30, 2009)

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Are you insane, or are you intentionally trying to make it look as if I am "condemning Muslim women? Good lord, you are a manipulater

Hair severely tied back? 

I spoke of a Muslim friend of mine, just to sit and watch you ignore her, and what she experienced, with no concern from you at all

So don't be coy and act as if you are stupid. You cannot be that stupid, RIGHT?


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## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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Unlike you, she apparently realized that your friend's dilemma is not indicative of what most Muslimahs experience.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Do the Amish condone honor killings?

I wasn't aware of that.

How many people have the Amish killed?

None? that's what I thought.

Do the Amish prescribe to the belief that all non-Amish should be killed, and to kill non-Amish, or to rape them, doesn't constitute murder or rape?

Nope.

The parallel is foolish.


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## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

PixieStix said:


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Just the ones who choose to dress according to their beliefs, I guess. 



> Hair severely tied back?


That's funny? 



> I spoke of a Muslim friend of mine, just to sit and watch you ignore her, and what she experienced, with no concern from you at all


Comments on the thread _to that point_ were about the manner of dress and head cover.

 In fact, YOUR post that I responded to was addressing that as well. _"What a shame that she covers what I assume is an awsome head of hair."_


I had considered responding to the rest of your post, but after watching you respond in such a hateful manner to Kalam, I really didn't want to get into the middle of that between you two. There's obviously a history there. So I chose to respond to the one point. To which you responded in a very nasty manner. 

I said I would pray for your friend and her children. Even though you're too hateful to acknowledge that and presume to tell me who I can pray for, I will still do so. Because as much as you like to _think_ that you can tell others what it is they believe and dictate their expressions of faith, you're not going to do so with me and mine.


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## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Do the Amish condone honor killings?
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> I wasn't aware of that.
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Not at all. 

It's being claimed that Muslim women only dress in that manner because they are forced to; I know of many who _chose_ to do so as an expression of their faith. Amish women choose to dress in the manner they do as an expression of _their_ faith. So do you consider _them_ 'forced' or oppressed?


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## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Do the Amish condone honor killings?


Does Islam? If so, please share any relevant passages from the Qur'an.



AllieBaba said:


> How many people have the Amish killed?


When was their very existence threatened by a hostile power?



AllieBaba said:


> Do the Amish prescribe to the belief that all non-Amish should be killed, and to kill non-Amish, or to rape them, doesn't constitute murder or rape?


Does Islam? If so, please share any relevant passages from the Qur'an. Especially regarding rape - I'm very interested in seeing the verse that says raping non-believers is peachy keen. 



AllieBaba said:


> The parallel is foolish.


Something's foolish alright.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Emma said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Do the Amish condone honor killings?
> ...



It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.

That's the difference.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.
> 
> That's the difference.



That's an accepted practice in Islam? I don't accept it, nor do any brothers of mine that I know of. The Qur'an doesn't accept it. Not even the ahadith accept it - They prescribe stoning as a punishment for rape. Don't feel as if you should let factual information get in your way, though.


----------



## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



It's not accepted practice among the Muslims I've known either... even those who choose NOT to dress as pictured on this thread.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Kalam said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.
> ...


The Koran does accept it, and whether or not you accept it or not has no bearing upon Islam. It's an accepted practice among Muslims.


----------



## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



Just curious. 

Do you practice Islam? Is that your religion?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

"Verse 4:34 of the Quran orders believers to beat their wives; so, Islam is a male dominant religion." 
". . . As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly). . ." (4:34)

"Beating women who are cheating is not an ultimate solution; but "striking them out" from your house is the best solution. And it is fair too."   


Does the Quran authorize beating the wives?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Emma said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Feeling the urge to discipline me? Or call on a bunch of thugs to "educate" me?


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The Koran does accept it,


Okay. Which surah and ayat should I refer to so that I can see how the Qur'an describes this practice?



AllieBaba said:


> It's an accepted practice among Muslims.


You've asked us all?


----------



## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...


Not at all. 

Are you Muslim?


----------



## Emma (Jul 30, 2009)

One final thought before I really, truly do go to bed. 

At my ex-hospital, our Chaplain was fantastic. He was a devout Southern Baptist minister, and was sensitive to the spiritual needs of _all_ the patients he encountered, _regardless of their beliefs_. I called on him often and he never once refused to help or act as though it was an imposition on him. 

He would come in at all hours of the day or night. And it wasn't always for religious reasons, either. One night he spent almost 6 hours counseling an 18 year old girl who's mom had died unexpectedly without any arrangements... the girl was her next-of-kin and there was no one else available; all she had was her 12 year old brother. She was simply overwhelmed, unable to make any decisions regarding her mom's disposition. He stayed with her, helping her work through the process, finally finding an aunt out of state to assist this girl. He wasn't there as a chaplain for her, but as someone to help her through the most horrible time in her young life. 

Another time, I had a patient who was actively dying, and I knew she was going to go that night. I called our Chaplain for assistance; the patient and her family were Buddhists, and he came in in the middle of the night and spent hours helping them through the rituals of their faith. He told me later that he'd never had the chance to assist a person of that belief, and thanked me for calling him in and giving him the opportunity to experience that; I was so impressed. He was a witness to all what a true Christian should be.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 30, 2009)

Emma said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > It's beautiful until you're forced to wear it.
> ...


33:59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful
The Noble Quran : Surat 33


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## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Yes, we all know that freedom is achieved by hiding people from view. 

John Gacy was a big believer in that. So was Jeffrey Dahmer. Those boys were really "free". 

And if that doens't work, just have them committed. Or, if the shame of treatment is too much for you, chain them up in a relative's home.

You all are well known for the "freedoms" you grant to people, particularly your wives. I love the freedom allowed to all the school girls butchered in the last few yeas. Though I guess death is the ultimate freedom.

Allah is great.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

And btw, if you think those of us who are truly free aren't aware of the Koran's directive to lie (hey, it's not a lie if you utter it to infidels) to non-believers to keep them ignorant of the reality of your religion, you're wrong.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> "
> ". . . As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly). . ." (4:34)
> 
> "Beating women who are cheating is not an ultimate solution; but "striking them out" from your house is the best solution. And it is fair too."



The operative root being _daraba_, which is used elsewhere in the Qur'an to mean "travel," "condemn," "strike," "cover," "explain," etc. I see no reason to assume that "beat" is the proper rendering in this verse.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> 33:59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful
> The Noble Quran : Surat 33



Wahhabi nonsense. The actual verse, without false additions from backward heretics: 

_O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful._​
Given that wearing a veil is forbidden while in the state of _ihram_ (for _hajj_), there is no reason to assume that it's required at other times.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> And btw, if you think those of us who are truly free aren't aware of the Koran's directive to lie (hey, it's not a lie if you utter it to infidels) to non-believers to keep them ignorant of the reality of your religion, you're wrong.


Which verse of the Qur'an is that? Where am I specifically allowed to lie to infidels?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 30, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > 33:59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful
> ...


There is a difference between a hijab and a niqab which is forbidden  during Hajj.

Reasons why there may be differences of opinion.

Islam Question and Answer - Our attitude towards the differences of opinion among the imams with regard to covering the face

Islam Question and Answer - Our attitude towards the differences of opinion among the imams with regard to covering the face


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> There is a difference between a hijab and a niqab which is forbidden  during Hajj.


I'm aware of this. Hence "veil" - anything, including a niqab, that covers a woman's face.



Mr.Fitnah said:


> Reasons why there may be differences of opinion.



1. Misogynistic radicals like the fools you worship invent justifications for their oppression of women.

Since covering one's face is forbidden while in the state of _ihram_, there is no logical reason to believe it should be required in a woman's day-to-day life.


----------



## Contessa_Sharra (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I was looking for show clothing to show my Arab in. I got depressed checking out the female garb....I want to dress like a bedouin MAN, which is of course, punishable by death...


 
AlHannah Islamic Clothing - Muslim Mens Dishdasha, Salwar and More

http://www.hilalplaza.com/mensjalabiya-bisht.aspx

but you may be thinking what is more like Punjabi men's fancy dress/wedding type, much more elaborate:
http://styleindia.tradeindia.com/Exporters_Suppliers/Exporter8504.228030/Sherwani.html

http://www.utsavsarees.com/pages/category.asp?cid=7&type=Wedding

Middle Eastern seems to me to be more austere, and understated.....


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 30, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > There is a difference between a hijab and a niqab which is forbidden  during Hajj.
> ...


I would think the reason would be obvious , during the hajj rituals a muslim man would try to undertake a posture of piety righteousness  and be focused on remembering allah.
It this state he would unlikely be distracted by  the Fitnah of a woman, since intercourse is forbidden .


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



Unfortunately for you, this viewpoint is not expressed in the Qur'an and cannot be justified religiously. Ihram is a state of pure piety - if a woman can satisfy the requirements of ihram and remain wholly pious with her face uncovered, there is absolutely no reason to believe that she should be required to hide her face at other times for the sake of piety and modesty. That is her prerogative.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 30, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



33:59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful
The Noble Quran : Surat 33

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

What is the trouble and annoyed they are speaking of here?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Contessa_Sharra said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > I was looking for show clothing to show my Arab in. I got depressed checking out the female garb....I want to dress like a bedouin MAN, which is of course, punishable by death...
> ...




I've checked out most of those sites. There are some Egyptian sites that are authentic, very cool.


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## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> What is the trouble and annoyed they are speaking of here?



The poor treatment that Muslim women may have received from foolish men if they were mistaken for slaves. Dressing modestly would identify them as free women and Muslimahs.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 30, 2009)

The poor treatment ?
What does that mean?


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> The poor treatment ?
> What does that mean?



Precisely what it says. 

_*the *- used, esp. before a noun, with a specifying or particularizing effect, as opposed to the indefinite or generalizing force of the indefinite article a or an.

*poor *- deficient in moral excellence; cowardly, abject, or mean.

*treatment *- action or behavior toward a person, animal, etc._​


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## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

It means if a man is poor his wife can divorce him. Otherwise, she's shit out of luck.

Of course, it's a lie. Poor is relative.


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## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> It means if a man is poor his wife can divorce him. Otherwise, she's shit out of luck.



What?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

No habla?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 30, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > The poor treatment ?
> ...


You had something specific in mind when you wrote it.If not can you give an example of what the poor treatment a slave girl could expect from a muslim?


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> You had something specific in mind when you wrote it.


Not really.



Mr.Fitnah said:


> If not can you give an example of what the poor treatment a slave girl could expect from a muslim?


The men harassing or mistreating the Muslimahs would not be Muslims.


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## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> No habla?



If you're using "poor" to refer to financial standing, you're mistaken.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2009)

Okie dokie. At any rate, it's subjective, and therefore meaningless.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 30, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > You had something specific in mind when you wrote it.
> ...


More likely they would be muslims  thinking they could snatch someone off the street in a personal jihad to enslave .

My friend told me that if there is a islamic battle and after winning that battle if muslims capture some women they are free to do whatever they want to do with them...

then they are free to do whatever they want to do with them. i.e have sex without marriage or marry them or kill them or free them or do what ever they please. Is this true. Please narrate any instances if this is true

Slavery was prevalent long before the advent of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) left it to exist even after his attaining prophethood. But Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) adopted many schemes to abolish it e.g. continuously encouraging the Sahabah (Radhiallaahu Anhu) to free the slaves and also laying down many conditions for possessing one. 

If an Islamic battle breaks out in which the Muslims attain booty which includes women, then the leader will distribute the booty amongst the participants. If a person receives a slave girl in his share allocated to him by the leader then he has the option of either freeing her or keeping her for his own needs, which includes having intimate relations with her without the need for Nikah (i.e. if she is a Muslim, Christian or Jew). The owner and leader both are not allowed to kill the slave girl. 

In the present age it is difficult to find Sharee slave girls as the rules and regulations of owning slaves are not found, therefore it is not permissible to buy any man or woman nor have intimate relationships with such women without performing Nikah with her first. (Fataawaa Rahimiyyah, Vol. 1, Page 50-58) 

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best 

Mufti Muhammad Ashraf 
Darul Ifta  Jameah Mahmoodiya, Springs 

JOINT PROJECT WITH DARUL IFTA, MADRASAH INAAMIYYAH, CAMPERDOWN


----------



## Kalam (Jul 30, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> More likely they would be muslims


The ummah was small and its members were familiar with each other - they would not be mistaken for slaves by other Muslims. 



Mr.Fitnah said:


> Slavery was prevalent long before the advent of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) left it to exist even after his attaining prophethood. But Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) adopted many schemes to abolish it e.g. continuously encouraging the Sahabah (Radhiallaahu Anhu) to free the slaves and also laying down many conditions for possessing one.



And what is it that you find wrong with this?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 31, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > More likely they would be muslims
> ...


QFP
unbelievable.


----------



## mal (Jul 31, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> It means if a man is poor his wife can divorce him. Otherwise, she's shit out of luck.
> 
> Of course, it's a lie. Poor is relative.



As is "Innocent"...



peace...


----------



## Kalam (Jul 31, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> QFP
> unbelievable.





Spare us your false outrage. Tell me, Fitnuts, how is it that slavery was abolished in America? It was for the most part disdained by our founders. In the constitutional spirit of liberty, did they abolish it immediately or did they create conditions that would cause it to phase out gradually? 

Where is your outrage over their actions? Why does Muhammad receive it when, in fact, his feelings and actions were essentially the same as theirs? Shit, I forgot - none of the founders were Muslims.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 31, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > QFP
> ...


A logical fallacy smörgåsbord .
 ad hominem, strawman, Tu Quoque and more.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 31, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



Shouldn't be too difficult for you to address, then.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 31, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > More likely they would be muslims
> ...


I did , nothing  needed to be added .You just don't understand what happened.


> QFP
> unbelievable.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 31, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> I did , nothing  needed to be added .You just don't understand what happened.



You did not respond to my question. That's what happened.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 31, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > I did , nothing  needed to be added .You just don't understand what happened.
> ...



You went on a rant after proving Islam supports slavery.Don't forget your place.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 31, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



"Proving Islam supports slavery?" I affirmed your scholar's point that Muhammad established conditions that would bring about the gradual abolition of slavery. Don't forget about your intellectual limitations.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah (Jul 31, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Please cite some of your scholars on  the prohibition of owning slaves  according to the Quran.


----------



## Kalam (Jul 31, 2009)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Mr.Fitnah said:
> ...



Strawman.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 31, 2009)

Translation: I have no evidence because I'm lying to attempt to mainstream my extremist beliefs in order to lure people into complacency before they get their hands and heads sawed off.


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## Kalam (Jul 31, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Translation: I have no evidence because I'm lying to attempt to mainstream my extremist beliefs in order to lure people into complacency before they get their hands and heads sawed off.



I always knew you'd be the one to uncover our nefarious plot. Your perceptiveness and intellect have forced the Mujahideen of the Southeast US into a corner from which we cannot escape!


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## AllieBaba (Jul 31, 2009)

Your nefarious plot was discovered long ago, when Muslims slaughtered their way across the middle east to Europe.

There's no mystery about it.


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## Kalam (Jul 31, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Your nefarious plot was discovered long ago, when Muslims slaughtered their way across the middle east to Europe.
> 
> There's no mystery about it.



Oh, I know, Babble. I'm simply surprised that you were keen enough to able to see through all of my cleverly crafted lies and meticulously maintained false personae. Cognitive sharpness like yours is a rare gift - it's really no wonder that someone of your mental caliber is a literalist fundie as well. Always thinking critically and outside of the box, aren't we?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 31, 2009)

"However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are *certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged*. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, *the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good." *

"This point is proven by many incidences in the life of Mohammed. *He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam's influence overrode Allah's initial prohibitions against lying.* A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassination of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, a member of the Jewish tribe, Banu al-Nudair. It had been reported that Kaab had shown support for the Quraishites in their battle against Mohammed. This was compounded by another report that infuriated Mohammed. It was alleged that Kaab had recited amorous poetry to Muslim women. Mohammed asked for volunteers to rid him of Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf. As Mohammed put it, Kaab had "Harmed Allah and His Apostle." At that time Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf, and his tribe were strong, so it was not easy for a stranger to infiltrate and execute the task. *A Muslim man by the name of Ibn Muslima, volunteered for the murderous project on the condition that Mohammed would allow him to lie. With Mohammed's consent, Ibn Muslima, went to Kaab and told him fabricated stories that reflected discontent about Mohammed's leadership. When he had gained Kaab's trust he lured him away from his house one night and murdered him in a remote area under the cover of darkness. *

"It was rumored that Shaaban was gathering an army to wage war on Mohammed. Mohammed retaliated by ordering Abdullah Ibn Anis to kill Shaaban. *Again, the would-be killer asked the prophet's permission to lie. Mohammed agreed and then ordered the killer to lie by stating that he was a member of the Khazaa clan.*"

These and similar passages from the Quran clearly reveal that Muslims' unintentional lies are forgivable and that even their intentional lies can be absolved by performing extra duties. It is also clear that if forced to do so, Muslims can lie while under oath and can even falsely deny faith in Allah, as long as they maintain the profession of faith in their hearts. "

"From "Ehiaa Oloum al-Din," by the famous Islamic scholar al-Ghazali, Vol. 3: PP.284-287: 

One of Mohammed's daughters, Umm Kalthoum, testified that she had never heard the Apostle of Allah condone lying, except in these three situations: 

For reconciliation among people. 
In war. 
Amongst spouses, to keep peace in the family. 
One passage from the Hadith quotes Mohammed as saying: "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies except those uttered to help bring reconciliation between Muslims."

"The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife." 
The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse: 

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28 

*According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him. *"Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable: 

Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan. 
Renounce belief in Allah. 
Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah. 
Utter insincere oaths. 
The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya 
*Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.*
Islam Review - Presented by The Pen vs. the Sword Featured Articles . . . Islam: the Facade, the Facts The rosy picture some Muslims are painting about their religion, and the truth they try to hide.


----------



## AllieBaba (Aug 1, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uIOIG-mlE8]YouTube - Story of 3 former Islamic Terrorists. From Islam to Christ ![/ame]


----------



## Emma (Aug 1, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> YouTube - Story of 3 former Islamic Terrorists. From Islam to Christ !



Hmmm. 

This would seem to present you with quite a dilemma, eh?


----------



## Kalam (Aug 1, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> "However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are *certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged*. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, *the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good." *


Mr. Tabbarah's writings are not holy scripture, nor are they authoritative sources of guidance for Muslims. Those distinctions are reserved for the Qur'an.



AllieBaba said:


> "This point is proven by many incidences in the life of Mohammed.


According to unverifiable oral traditions recorded in hadith collections which are, of course, meaningless. 



AllieBaba said:


> These and similar passages from the Quran


Which?



AllieBaba said:


> It is also clear that if forced to do so, Muslims can lie while under oath and can even falsely deny faith in Allah, as long as they maintain the profession of faith in their hearts. "


According to which verse of the Qur'an?



AllieBaba said:


> "From "Ehiaa Oloum al-Din," by the famous Islamic scholar al-Ghazali, Vol. 3: PP.284-287:


Another non-Qur'anic source that is of no use to you in an attempt to criticize Islam. 



AllieBaba said:


> One passage from the Hadith


Unverifiable.



AllieBaba said:


> The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:
> 
> "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28
> 
> According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels


Where is "pretending" mentioned?



AllieBaba said:


> and display adherence with their unbelief


Where is this mentioned in that passage?



AllieBaba said:


> to prevent them from harming him. [/B]"Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:
> 
> Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan.
> Renounce belief in Allah.
> ...


According to which verses of the Qur'an?




AllieBaba said:


> The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya
> 
> Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.



A patently false conclusion based on unsubstantiated allegations and a failure of an attempt at distorting the meaning of a Qur'anic verse. Thank you for playing.


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## Kalam (Aug 1, 2009)

Emma said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > YouTube - Story of 3 former Islamic Terrorists. From Islam to Christ !
> ...


Yeah, maybe they're lying! They could be secret Muslims waiting for an opportunity to break into Babble's house and go all "Islam" on her for valiantly exposing the truth about our religion.


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## JW Frogen (Aug 1, 2009)

See what I can not understand is why does God always pick hicks in the most boondocks parts of the world for revelations, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed. All inbred country folk.
An efficient God would just go to the Roman, Chinese or American emperors and say sort this shit out.


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## Bootneck (Aug 1, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> "However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are *certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged*. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, *the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good." *
> 
> "This point is proven by many incidences in the life of Mohammed. *He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam's influence overrode Allah's initial prohibitions against lying.* A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassination of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, a member of the Jewish tribe, Banu al-Nudair. It had been reported that Kaab had shown support for the Quraishites in their battle against Mohammed. This was compounded by another report that infuriated Mohammed. It was alleged that Kaab had recited amorous poetry to Muslim women. Mohammed asked for volunteers to rid him of Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf. As Mohammed put it, Kaab had "Harmed Allah and His Apostle." At that time Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf, and his tribe were strong, so it was not easy for a stranger to infiltrate and execute the task. *A Muslim man by the name of Ibn Muslima, volunteered for the murderous project on the condition that Mohammed would allow him to lie. With Mohammed's consent, Ibn Muslima, went to Kaab and told him fabricated stories that reflected discontent about Mohammed's leadership. When he had gained Kaab's trust he lured him away from his house one night and murdered him in a remote area under the cover of darkness. *
> 
> ...




Clearly a philosophy that politicians from all our countries aspire to. You couldn't find a greater collection of liars, cheats, nest-featherers and snakes, than those who run our countries...and you're castigating muslims?


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## Mr.Fitnah (Aug 1, 2009)

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



http://www.usmessageboard.com/1384266-post124.html
No an obvious response to your statement.
Remember, Im not smart enough to understand what you are talking about so you need to be real clear.


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## xÞx (Oct 26, 2009)




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## bikercat (Feb 16, 2011)

dam, those are some sexy eyes! huba,huba!


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## High_Gravity (Feb 17, 2011)

Throw that girl in a string bikini and lets see what shes working with.


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## syrenn (Feb 17, 2011)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Saudi beauty queen Aya Ali al-Mulla trounced 274 rivals to win a crown, jewelry, cash and a trip to Malaysia-- all without showing her face, Saudi media reported Friday.
> With her face and body completely covered by the black head-to-toe abaya mandatory in the conservative Muslim kingdom, 18-year-old Mulla was named "Queen of Beautiful Morals" late Thursday, newspapers reported.
> 
> There was none of the swimsuit and evening gown competitions and heavy media coverage of beauty pageants elsewhere when the contest was decided in the eastern city of Safwa.
> ...



I know its an old thread but...i have to laugh. 


The winner was crowned the best slave.


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## Ropey (Feb 17, 2011)

syrenn said:


> mr.fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > saudi beauty queen aya ali al-mulla trounced 274 rivals to win a crown, jewelry, cash and a trip to malaysia-- all without showing her face, saudi media reported friday.
> ...



lmao


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## syrenn (Feb 17, 2011)

Ropey said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > mr.fitnah said:
> ...





Well, am i wrong?


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## Ropey (Feb 17, 2011)

syrenn said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



No. However I find irony funny. The irony that she can be voted a beauty queen when she's almost completely covered.


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## Hillbilly Girl (Feb 20, 2011)

Emma said:


> She has very kind, intelligent eyes.



Are you the Emma everyone has been talking about?  From what I've been hearing to sound very smart and pretty with good morals and family values a zero tolerance for all the trolls here... i like that maybe we can be friends.


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