# I'm tired of being screwed over by mechanics



## KudoZ

How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.


----------



## uscitizen

Do like I did all my life and fix my own vehicles.


----------



## BecauseIKnow

Go to Pontiac, MI.


----------



## Zoom

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is differeint.



When you get a check engine light, go to auto zone or a place like that.  They can tea the cose.for.you.  then research and get the parts you need and go to a mech and tell him what us wrong.


----------



## Toronado3800

Far as things I own, my car ranks third in expense behind my house and my new ACL.  And my 98 MarkVIII came to me quite used and fairly cheap.

As it was a large purchase and is important to me functioning as an adult I try to keep up on it.  I belong to a real MarkVIII message board or two and own some tools.  That way when I do give up trying to fix a problem myself whatever mechanic I deal with can't screw me readily.  Pretty much the same with the house.


----------



## Noomi

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.



Are you a female? Statistics show (if you believe them) that women get screwed over by mechanics because its believed that they don't have enough mechanical knowledge to know they are being ripped off.


----------



## zakdavis

uscitizen said:


> Do like I did all my life and fix my own vehicles.



Do this. At the very least, learn about your car, such as common problems with the model and year.


----------



## Mad Scientist

zakdavis said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do like I did all my life and fix my own vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> Do this. At the very least, learn about your car, such as common problems with the model and year.
Click to expand...

Mechanics are no different than any other criminal. They size you up before they attack.


----------



## Sunni Man

Go to one of the small local auto parts stores where you live and buy a quart of oil or something.

While checking out ask the person if they know a good mechanic that's fair and with decent prices?

Usually they know who is good and who is bad.


----------



## longknife

Do what I've done for the past 30 years - find a Hispanic auto shop and take it there! They know what they're doing and want your repeat business.

I had a car that kept wearing out tires. I took it to ten different mechanics and had it aligned at least six times. Took it to a Mexican mechanic. He looked it over, got a sledge hammer, and straightened out the bent tie rod that was causing the problem. Cost? About $20!!!


----------



## Katzndogz

My mechanic is very good and very honest.  He has to be.  Years ago he decided to discriminate and stopped fixing the cars of various people he chose not to do business with.    Rather than expose himself to the endless discrimination lawsuits, he went out of business, on paper, he fixes the cars of people he knows and those who are recommended by people he knows.   Being good and being honest is what he sells.

Ask around.  Someone knows someone who fixes cars.


----------



## Katzndogz

longknife said:


> Do what I've done for the past 30 years - find a Hispanic auto shop and take it there! They know what they're doing and want your repeat business.
> 
> I had a car that kept wearing out tires. I took it to ten different mechanics and had it aligned at least six times. Took it to a Mexican mechanic. He looked it over, got a sledge hammer, and straightened out the bent tie rod that was causing the problem. Cost? About $20!!!



That COULD work, then again it could not work.   Take it to a hispanic auto repair shop and you have even odds that your car is stripped of its parts and the unusable carcass dumped half way to mexico.


----------



## zakdavis

I started to learn how to work on cars after a mechanic put new brake pads on upside down, ended up breaking a caliper.


----------



## Missourian

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=pd_sl_66fl5pt3yg_b?rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3Achilton+manuals&keywords=chilton+manuals&ie=UTF8&psrk=chilton+manuals]Amazon.com: chilton manuals: Books[/ame]


----------



## Sunni Man

zakdavis said:


> I started to learn how to work on cars after a mechanic put new brake pads on upside down, ended up breaking a caliper.


Sorry, but I have to call you on this.

I have replaced my own disc brake pads on my personal cars for years.

And it's physically impossible to install brake pads upside down/backwards/or sideways.  

Just saying..........


----------



## Koios

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.



Walk.


----------



## zakdavis

Sunni Man said:


> zakdavis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I started to learn how to work on cars after a mechanic put new brake pads on upside down, ended up breaking a caliper.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have to call you on this.
> 
> I have replaced my own disc brake pads on my personal cars for years.
> 
> And it's physically impossible to install brake pads upside down/backwards/or sideways.
> 
> Just saying..........
Click to expand...


Either way, broken caliper.


----------



## Sunni Man

Yes, the mechanic could have over tightened the caliper when installing the pads.

Which caused it to crack and eventually break.


----------



## JustTheFacts

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.



Hello

ASE certified Master Tech here. Let me address a few things . Oh, and I own my own business, so I work for commission, sort of.

Let's start there , why are mechanics on commission? And by the way the correct term is auto technician, but we'll let that slide .

Technicians aren't on commission in some sort of ploy to rip off customers, although I admit that there is a lot of that going on in our industry, sadly.

Instead technicians are on commission because it works out better for everyone involved, as in I'm not paying a tech a full wage when we're not busy, and the tech can make more money than his wage when we our swamped. 

It really is that simple

Now to the question of why does your "mechanic" give you a list of every little thing when you take your car in? Simple, liability. If you come in to my shop for a front end alignment and I notice your muffler is about to fall off and I say nothing to you, then 3 days later your muffler falls off and causes an accident, suddenly your suing me because I didn't advise you of the issue? 

As a general rule I don't nitpick a vehicle, and I know most of my customers so I know which ones are picky and which ones aren't, but in a situation where I don't know the customer, damn right, I document everything I might see wrong with the vehicle. 

Next on the charge for computer diagnostics.  Why don't we do this for free? Simple reason, I'm not in business to work for free. Too many people bring in it for a diagnostics and then go somewhere else to get it fixed, or don't fix it at all.

Also, on that point,the people telling you "oh just go to AutoZone or whatever and have them read the code for free then you'll know what parts to buy to have it fixed" 

Let me tell you, that is the most ignorant automotive advice you could ever receive. Autozone and other stores use a $30 code reader to pull a code , that code means nothing if you can't access the datastream to see what the engine and other component are actually doing. That takes a specialized piece of equipment, the one I use cost $5000 . We also utilize an online service which further helps in diagnosing , this service costs us $200 a month.

Oh, and it's not always a parts replacement,sometimes the car just needs reprogrammed, Autozones $30 device won't do that. My $5000 one will, but I have to pay a subscription fee to each manufacture to have access to that data. Costs about $50 each time I use it from most manufactures.

Oh, and 9 out of 10 times what I see when a check engine light comes on, is that is an EVAP leak, and there's only way to run that down, use a $2000 smoke machine to find out where the leak is.

So, I know people expect us to work for free, but that's impossible. I did my end of year inventory the other day,I spent $10K on tools this year, most of them do one job on one vehicle, but you have to have them if you are going to work on cars.

It costs me $1500 just to open for the day. That's whether I do any business or not. So no, I can't afford to spend an hour on your vehicle figuring out what is wrong with it for free.

I do however discount the price of the repair should you choose to have it repaired,but that's just me and by no means is a shop who doesn't ripping you off.

I don't get it at all. When you to the doctor do you bitch when they charge you for running tests on their expensive equipment? 

That being said, yes there are lots of crooks out there and they suck for all of us. One tip, AutoZone has a pretty decent referral system, and they are pretty good about removing techs who they receive complaints about. If you go to their website and find the referral section and punch in your zipcode some reputable techs should show up..


----------



## JustTheFacts

zakdavis said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zakdavis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I started to learn how to work on cars after a mechanic put new brake pads on upside down, ended up breaking a caliper.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have to call you on this.
> 
> I have replaced my own disc brake pads on my personal cars for years.
> 
> And it's physically impossible to install brake pads upside down/backwards/or sideways.
> 
> Just saying..........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either way, broken caliper.
Click to expand...


Its not possible to break a caliper. Although sunny man is wrong. On certain vehicles the brake pads can be inatalled backwards so that the backing is facing the rotor rather thannthenfriction material. Doing so  would not break the caliper.


----------



## Sunni Man

JustTheFacts said:


> Its not possible to break a caliper. Although sunny man is wrong. On certain vehicles the brake pads can be inatalled backwards so that the backing is facing the rotor rather thannthenfriction material. Doing so  would not break the caliper.


Since you are a professional mechanic I will have to take your word for it that it's possible to install disc brake pads backwards on certain models. I have only worked on my personal cars; and the pads could only be installed one way.

In my opinion, any mechanic who would mount a customers disc brake pads backwards. 

Most likely writes his work orders with a crayon.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Sunni Man said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not possible to break a caliper. Although sunny man is wrong. On certain vehicles the brake pads can be inatalled backwards so that the backing is facing the rotor rather thannthenfriction material. Doing so  would not break the caliper.
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are a professional mechanic I will have to take your word for it that it's possible to install disc brake pads backwards on certain models. I have only worked on my personal cars; and the pads could only be installed one way.
> 
> In my opinion, any mechanic who would mount a customers disc brake pads backwards.
> 
> Most likely writes his work orders with a crayon.
Click to expand...




On that point we are certainly agreed, and rarely if ever have I ever actually seen it done, but certain pads COULD be installed backwards if a person were a complete idiot and couldn't tell the difference between a metal backing plate and a friction pad.

The more common occurrences are that someone installed the brake calipers on the wrong side of the vehicle which puts the bleeder screws on the wrong side so that air can't be bled out of the system.

and then the even more understandable mistake of using a poor quality pad then wondering why the brakes are noisy or what have you.

That's usually what I see when people have complaints about brake work that others have done.


----------



## syrenn




----------



## JustTheFacts

syrenn said:


>





Seems like an odd place for you to have given me a neg rep. But whatever you havr a nice evening.


----------



## syrenn

JustTheFacts said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like an odd place for you to have given me a neg rep. But whatever you havr a nice evening.
Click to expand...


think of it as a welcome back.


----------



## JustTheFacts

syrenn said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like an odd place for you to have given me a neg rep. But whatever you havr a nice evening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> think of it as a welcome back.
Click to expand...


Another odd comment from you. This is the automotive forum, if you wish to discuss what a great show Welcome Back Kotter was, the TV forum would be the appropriate place for such.

I'd agree, that was a great TV show, so not sure why you would neg rep me there either.


----------



## syrenn

JustTheFacts said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like an odd place for you to have given me a neg rep. But whatever you havr a nice evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> think of it as a welcome back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another odd comment from you. This is the automotive forum, if you wish to discuss what a great show Welcome Back Kotter was, the TV forum would be the appropriate place for such.
> 
> I'd agree, that was a great TV show, so not sure why you would neg rep me there either.
Click to expand...


nothing odd about it at all..... 

but play it how you want.....


----------



## JustTheFacts

syrenn said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> think of it as a welcome back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another odd comment from you. This is the automotive forum, if you wish to discuss what a great show Welcome Back Kotter was, the TV forum would be the appropriate place for such.
> 
> I'd agree, that was a great TV show, so not sure why you would neg rep me there either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> nothing odd about it at all.....
> 
> but play it how you want.....
Click to expand...


If an auto technician has screwed you over in the past do to your lack of knowledge on the subject, I apologize and can sympathize, but no reason to take it out on me, I can assure you it wasn't me because I don't take advantage of my customers. I kind of like sleeping at night.

No reason to take your frustration with a dishonest "mechanic" out on me.


----------



## syrenn

JustTheFacts said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another odd comment from you. This is the automotive forum, if you wish to discuss what a great show Welcome Back Kotter was, the TV forum would be the appropriate place for such.
> 
> I'd agree, that was a great TV show, so not sure why you would neg rep me there either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nothing odd about it at all.....
> 
> but play it how you want.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If an auto technician has screwed you over in the past do to your lack of knowledge on the subject, I apologize and can sympathize, but no reason to take it out on me, I can assure you it wasn't me because I don't take advantage of my customers. I kind of like sleeping at night.
> 
> No reason to take your frustration with a dishonest "mechanic" out on me.
Click to expand...


I don't take my car to be serviced at a tire shop..... So i have no issues with my auto mechanics. 

but play it how you want.


----------



## earlycuyler

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.



Do what you do when searching for a Dr or dentist. I agree, many auto repair shops are rip off joints, but most are not. On top of that, many mechanics are not hourly employees in the manner you think they are. Some pay rent on the stall where they work as well as buy there own tools . One poster made a good recommendation about auto zone, you can also get a Chilton manual and give it a try your self. I will ask to take a look at mine when I get the oil done. 9 times out of ten, its nothing more then a wonky light.


----------



## JustTheFacts

syrenn said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nothing odd about it at all.....
> 
> but play it how you want.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an auto technician has screwed you over in the past do to your lack of knowledge on the subject, I apologize and can sympathize, but no reason to take it out on me, I can assure you it wasn't me because I don't take advantage of my customers. I kind of like sleeping at night.
> 
> No reason to take your frustration with a dishonest "mechanic" out on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't take my car to be serviced at a tire shop..... So i have no issues with my auto mechanics.
> 
> but play it how you want.
Click to expand...


 not sure what you getting at there. Most professional Automotive technician, especially independent shops, offer full service Auto repair. That includes servicing and replacing tires. Suggesting otherwise would be like suggesting that say a restaurant would not also serve drinks.


----------



## JustTheFacts

earlycuyler said:


> KudoZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do what you do when searching for a Dr or dentist. I agree, many auto repair shops are rip off joints, but most are not. On top of that, many mechanics are not hourly employees in the manner you think they are. Some pay rent on the stall where they work as well as buy there own tools . One poster made a good recommendation about auto zone, you can also get a Chilton manual and give it a try your self. I will ask to take a look at mine when I get the oil done. 9 times out of ten, its nothing more then a wonky light.
Click to expand...


Untrue. 999 out of 1000 times if a service light comes on it is for a reason and thrre is no shade tree way to diagnose and repair.
.. People need to understand that the modern automobile is a computer on wheels and  as such requires a technician and they should expect  professional service and B willing to pay for that service.


----------



## syrenn

JustTheFacts said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an auto technician has screwed you over in the past do to your lack of knowledge on the subject, I apologize and can sympathize, but no reason to take it out on me, I can assure you it wasn't me because I don't take advantage of my customers. I kind of like sleeping at night.
> 
> No reason to take your frustration with a dishonest "mechanic" out on me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't take my car to be serviced at a tire shop..... So i have no issues with my auto mechanics.
> 
> but play it how you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not sure what you getting at there. Most professional Automotive technician, especially independent shops, offer full service Auto repair. That includes servicing and replacing tires. Suggesting otherwise would be like suggesting that say a restaurant would not also serve drinks.
Click to expand...



yes...i have seen.... private companies categorized as tire shops.  


i am suggesting what these tire shops offer is nothing more then _unknown brainless facts who try to con you_.....  chew on that for a while.


----------



## Amelia




----------



## JustTheFacts

syrenn said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't take my car to be serviced at a tire shop..... So i have no issues with my auto mechanics.
> 
> but play it how you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not sure what you getting at there. Most professional Automotive technician, especially independent shops, offer full service Auto repair. That includes servicing and replacing tires. Suggesting otherwise would be like suggesting that say a restaurant would not also serve drinks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yes...i have seen.... private companies categorized as tire shops.
> 
> 
> i am suggesting what these tire shops offer is nothing more then _unknown brainless facts who try to con you_.....  chew on that for a while.
Click to expand...


Look dude I don't have any idea what your problem is nor do I care but you have no reason to continually derail this thread.

And with that I am done trying to discuss this topic with you. Have a nice evening.


----------



## syrenn

Amelia said:


>





I know! shove over.....


----------



## syrenn

JustTheFacts said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> not sure what you getting at there. Most professional Automotive technician, especially independent shops, offer full service Auto repair. That includes servicing and replacing tires. Suggesting otherwise would be like suggesting that say a restaurant would not also serve drinks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes...i have seen.... private companies categorized as tire shops.
> 
> 
> i am suggesting what these tire shops offer is nothing more then _unknown brainless facts who try to con you_.....  chew on that for a while.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look dude I don't have any idea what your problem is nor do I care but you have no reason to continually derail this thread.
> 
> And with that I am done trying to discuss this topic with you. Have a nice evening.
Click to expand...


really? ...its _your_ thread now? 

bwhahahahaha.


----------



## mudwhistle

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.



Ethanol is usually the cause of that check engine light.

It means your Catalytic-converter is fried.


----------



## JustTheFacts

mudwhistle said:


> KudoZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethanol is usually the cause of that check engine light.
> 
> It means your Catalytic-converter is fried. Ignore it.
Click to expand...


Good advice there. especially if the person live in a state that performs emissions testing.


----------



## alan1

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.



I guess I'm lucky.  I work at a huge corporation with about 5000 people on site.  There is an auto shop right next door.  I take my car there.  They know that if they screw me over I'm gong to tell 5000 people that they screwed me.


----------



## syrenn

alan1 said:


> KudoZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm lucky.  I work at a huge corporation with about 5000 people on site.  There is an auto shop right next door.  I take my car there.  They know that if they screw me over *I'm gong to tell 5000 people that they screwed me.*
Click to expand...




i knew it.... you kiss and tell!!!


----------



## JustTheFacts

alan1 said:


> KudoZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm lucky.  I work at a huge corporation with about 5000 people on site.  There is an auto shop right next door.  I take my car there.  They know that if they screw me over I'm gong to tell 5000 people that they screwed me.
Click to expand...


That is something that many business ownefs fail to understand. A happy customer will tell one person about you. An upset customer will tell ten.


----------



## syrenn

JustTheFacts said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KudoZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm lucky.  I work at a huge corporation with about 5000 people on site.  There is an auto shop right next door.  I take my car there.  They know that if they screw me over I'm gong to tell 5000 people that they screwed me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is something that many business ownefs fail to understand. A happy customer will tell one person about you. An upset customer will tell ten.
Click to expand...



Oh that's not just in business... it works here too. 

its sad and amusing when some don't learn that lesson.


----------



## alan1

syrenn said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KudoZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm lucky.  I work at a huge corporation with about 5000 people on site.  There is an auto shop right next door.  I take my car there.  They know that if they screw me over *I'm gong to tell 5000 people that they screwed me.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i knew it.... you kiss and tell!!!
Click to expand...

I don't kiss my mechanic.


----------



## JustTheFacts

alan1 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm lucky.  I work at a huge corporation with about 5000 people on site.  There is an auto shop right next door.  I take my car there.  They know that if they screw me over *I'm gong to tell 5000 people that they screwed me.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i knew it.... you kiss and tell!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't kiss my mechanic.
Click to expand...


I generall do not want my customers kisses.


----------



## retro

My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.

I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm .. 

So I took it to the local garage.  

After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.

So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.

They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.

Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either 

How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.  

Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..


----------



## JustTheFacts

retro said:


> My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.
> 
> I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm ..
> 
> So I took it to the local garage.
> 
> After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.
> 
> So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.
> 
> They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.
> 
> Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either
> 
> How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..



The computers in cars are far from useless. Use to be the car needed the tune up every 30,000 miles or so. Now engines are more efficient more powerful cleaner and last longer. modern engine can easily go 100,000 miles between tune ups. Just 20 years ago a  engine was pretty much wore out at that mileage.

And that is not even to mention the obvious safety improvements computers have made 2 cars.


----------



## Papawx3

Mazda's computers have always been known to show a series of error codes when the vehicle reaches a predetermined mileage. This was designed into the vehicle for one reason: so that the owner would have to take it to a dealership.  I bought a new B2200 p/u back in 2000 and this was my sole dissatisfaction with it.  However I learned how to disable these error codes on mine.  
Most "local garages" don't have the proper equipment necessary to correctly diagnose these issues.  As much as I hate it, I'm going to have to recommend that you take it to a Mazda dealership.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Papawx3 said:


> Mazda's computers have always been known to show a series of error codes when the vehicle reaches a predetermined mileage. This was designed into the vehicle for one reason: so that the owner would have to take it to a dealership.  I bought a new B2200 p/u back in 2000 and this was my sole dissatisfaction with it.  However I learned how to disable these error codes on mine.
> Most "local garages" don't have the proper equipment necessary to correctly diagnose these issues.  As much as I hate it, I'm going to have to recommend that you take it to a Mazda dealership.



Again, untrue. If a service light comes on it is for a reason. Now that reason could be that the light or computer itself is faulty, but I can assure you no manufacture is designing vehicles to turn a light on for no reason.  What incentive would there even be to do so? So that a person would take a newish vehicle into a dealership and the manufacture would have to pay for warranty work performed? That's counter productive. As for out of warranty vehicles, manufactures do not make any percentage off repairs done at dealerships. They just don't. So , again, no incentive.

Not to mention the regulatory standards that they must meet.

As for most your comment about most local shops don't have the right diagnostic tools, you are absolutely correct, most don't and you should avoid those shops like the plague.  With the latest J2357 standard the government has mandated that all manufactures who  sell vehicles in the US must provide access to ALL factory level diagnostics to consumer. Now that simply means they have to conform to ODBII standards as far as diagnostics and they must make their data available. Each shop is of course responsible for buying its own diagnostic equipment , and also each manufacture charges a subscription fee to access their data (except Hyundai who gives free access)

So yes, it's expensive, I just bought a new OTC Genisys Touch which is capable of factory level diagnostic work as well as flash programming on every vehicle on the market today ( providing of course that it is new enough to have such technology) The device cost me $5000 , but is a necessary investment if you want to provide professional service.

Also, as I said in an earlier post, IF I have to get into a manufacture's database I have to pay for that access.  So don't come griping when I charge you for diagnostic time.


----------



## Toronado3800

Papawx3 said:


> Mazda's computers have always been known to show a series of error codes when the vehicle reaches a predetermined mileage. This was designed into the vehicle for one reason: so that the owner would have to take it to a dealership.  I bought a new B2200 p/u back in 2000 and this was my sole dissatisfaction with it.  However I learned how to disable these error codes on mine.
> Most "local garages" don't have the proper equipment necessary to correctly diagnose these issues.  As much as I hate it, I'm going to have to recommend that you take it to a Mazda dealership.



It probably does seem like a conspiracy but at after a certain time things just wear out.

Many urban legends persist in automotive circles.  Just trust me, my old Toronado was really inexpensive to operate but it was not the same car with 250k miles as when I grabbed her with 94k.  Touch Screen still worked but she was in need of a refit in naval terms.

Last thing that got me on line was reading about folks confused by the air ride in their MarkVIII and then meeting a fellow shade tree who couldn't get his air ride right.  So when my MarkVIII rear bags started leaking I installed a 4 wheel spring conversion kit.  She might even handle better but man, them bags were EASY to swap.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Toronado3800 said:


> Papawx3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mazda's computers have always been known to show a series of error codes when the vehicle reaches a predetermined mileage. This was designed into the vehicle for one reason: so that the owner would have to take it to a dealership.  I bought a new B2200 p/u back in 2000 and this was my sole dissatisfaction with it.  However I learned how to disable these error codes on mine.
> Most "local garages" don't have the proper equipment necessary to correctly diagnose these issues.  As much as I hate it, I'm going to have to recommend that you take it to a Mazda dealership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It probably does seem like a conspiracy but at after a certain time things just wear out.
> 
> Many urban legends persist in automotive circles.  Just trust me, my old Toronado was really inexpensive to operate but it was not the same car with 250k miles as when I grabbed her with 94k.  Touch Screen still worked but she was in need of a refit in naval terms.
> 
> Last thing that got me on line was reading about folks confused by the air ride in their MarkVIII and then meeting a fellow shade tree who couldn't get his air ride right.  So when my MarkVIII rear bags started leaking I installed a 4 wheel spring conversion kit.  She might even handle better but man, them bags were EASY to swap.
Click to expand...



Here's what I worked on this morning





All for a simple headlight bulb change.

Charge the customer $100 labor for the entire job of pulling the bumper off the car , pulling the headlights, replacing the bulbs, and replacing everything. Took like 3 hours.

But yeah , "mechanics" are out to screw their customers.

PS This was a lady who knows nothing about cars.


----------



## Toronado3800

My goodness! What kind of vehicle WAS that?

My MarkVIII has some impossible to find replacement bulbs I understand so I can't pick on them w/o admitting that but that procedure seems ridiculous.  

Hopefully you have video of all the stuff you had to do in case she complains lol.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Toronado3800 said:


> My goodness! What kind of vehicle WAS that?
> 
> My MarkVIII has some impossible to find replacement bulbs I understand so I can't pick on them w/o admitting that but that procedure seems ridiculous.
> 
> Hopefully you have video of all the stuff you had to do in case she complains lol.



2008 chevy malibu.

oh no, I NEVER do any work without giving an estimate up front, she was well aware of the cost. Besides her dad and her grandad before him have been doing business with my me and my dad before me for 30 years. She trusts us, as we've earned.


----------



## freedombecki

retro said:


> My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.
> 
> I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm ..
> 
> So I took it to the local garage.
> 
> After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.
> 
> So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.
> 
> They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.
> 
> Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either
> 
> How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​




Yeah, baby! ​


----------



## JustTheFacts

retro said:


> My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.
> 
> I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm ..
> 
> So I took it to the local garage.
> 
> After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.
> 
> So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.
> 
> They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.
> 
> Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either
> 
> How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..



Did they ever find anything on your Mazda?


----------



## Toronado3800

retro said:


> My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.
> 
> I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm ..
> 
> So I took it to the local garage.
> 
> After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.
> 
> So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.
> 
> They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.
> 
> Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either
> 
> How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..



I have owned cars dating from 1968 to 2010.  Trust me, the computerized ones are better.   Even something as simple as spark plugs in a new car last the life of an old car.

Now it does present a whole new slew of challenges to your mechanic.  Find a good one.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Toronado3800 said:


> retro said:
> 
> 
> 
> My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.
> 
> I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm ..
> 
> So I took it to the local garage.
> 
> After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.
> 
> So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.
> 
> They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.
> 
> Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either
> 
> How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have owned cars dating from 1968 to 2010.  Trust me, the computerized ones are better.   Even something as simple as spark plugs in a new car last the life of an old car.
> 
> Now it does present a whole new slew of challenges to your mechanic.  Find a good one.
Click to expand...


Yup, for all the reminiscent about "the good old days" its kinda funny that half a dozen manufactures build sub $25K cars that get 30MPG or better and will absolutely smoke even the baddest of 60's muscle cars in just about every conceivable performance category, all the while providing better quality, more comfort, and just generally a better car all around.


----------



## retro

JustTheFacts said:


> retro said:
> 
> 
> 
> My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.
> 
> I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm ..
> 
> So I took it to the local garage.
> 
> After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.
> 
> So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.
> 
> They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.
> 
> Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either
> 
> How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they ever find anything on your Mazda?
Click to expand...


Hi JTF .. 

Well it's back working for the moment - they cleaned and adjusted the door closing mechanism, found a blown fuse to the radio (coincidence maybe), and did a 'reset' (whatever that is) to get rid of the panel light.  The car alarm hasn't gone off again so far.

And it only cost me £50 .. 

It's a really nice car when it's behaving itself ..


----------



## JustTheFacts

retro said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> retro said:
> 
> 
> 
> My lovely Mazda MX-5 has suddenly decided to flash it's lights and sound the car alarm whenever I lock the doors - even though there's no-one around.
> 
> I've had it two years and didn't even know it had an alarm ..
> 
> So I took it to the local garage.
> 
> After checking and lubricating the door closing mechanism, they could find nothing wrong.
> 
> So I picked it up - and found I now had an Engine Warning light up on the dash.
> 
> They connected a tester to the wiring loom - but it diagnosed that the diagnostic equipment was faulty ..   So I have to go back tomorrow.
> 
> Driving home, with the orange Engine warning light still on - I found the radio had no power to it either
> 
> How I hate these modern computerised cars.  A car should have an engine, brakes and steering - that's it.  Keeping things simple is best.
> 
> Maybe I should buy a classic car pre-dating useless computers ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did they ever find anything on your Mazda?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi JTF ..
> 
> Well it's back working for the moment - they cleaned and adjusted the door closing mechanism, found a blown fuse to the radio (coincidence maybe), and did a 'reset' (whatever that is) to get rid of the panel light.  The car alarm hasn't gone off again so far.
> 
> And it only cost me £50 ..
> 
> It's a really nice car when it's behaving itself ..
Click to expand...


A reset is simply going into the computer and turning off the triggers that turned the light on in the first place.


----------



## Papawx3

JustTheFacts said:


> Papawx3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mazda's computers have always been known to show a series of error codes when the vehicle reaches a predetermined mileage. This was designed into the vehicle for one reason: so that the owner would have to take it to a dealership.  I bought a new B2200 p/u back in 2000 and this was my sole dissatisfaction with it.  However I learned how to disable these error codes on mine.
> Most "local garages" don't have the proper equipment necessary to correctly diagnose these issues.  As much as I hate it, I'm going to have to recommend that you take it to a Mazda dealership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Again, untrue. If a service light comes on it is for a reason.* Now that reason could be that the light or computer itself is faulty, but I can assure you no manufacture is designing vehicles to turn a light on for no reason.  What incentive would there even be to do so? So that a person would take a newish vehicle into a dealership and the manufacture would have to pay for warranty work performed? That's counter productive. As for out of warranty vehicles, manufactures do not make any percentage off repairs done at dealerships. They just don't. So , again, no incentive.
> 
> Not to mention the regulatory standards that they must meet.
> 
> As for most your comment about most local shops don't have the right diagnostic tools, you are absolutely correct, most don't and you should avoid those shops like the plague.  With the latest J2357 standard the government has mandated that all manufactures who  sell vehicles in the US must provide access to ALL factory level diagnostics to consumer. Now that simply means they have to conform to ODBII standards as far as diagnostics and they must make their data available. Each shop is of course responsible for buying its own diagnostic equipment , and also each manufacture charges a subscription fee to access their data (except Hyundai who gives free access)
> 
> So yes, it's expensive, I just bought a new OTC Genisys Touch which is capable of factory level diagnostic work as well as flash programming on every vehicle on the market today ( providing of course that it is new enough to have such technology) The device cost me $5000 , but is a necessary investment if you want to provide professional service.
> 
> Also, as I said in an earlier post, IF I have to get into a manufacture's database I have to pay for that access.  So don't come griping when I charge you for diagnostic time.
Click to expand...


I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over this. That's not my style. 
I do know though that I bought a 1990 Mazda B2200 (brand new from the dealership) and the "Check Engine" light turned on every 60,000 miles, just like clockwork.   The first couple of times I took it to the dealership for service and paid them $250+ each visit.   
Then I was told about a switch that's activated by the gears in the odometer.  (Which makes it not only intentional, but actually designed into the original manufacture of the vehicle.) I was also told how to turn the switch back off.  Using this knowledge, I figure I finally saved myself about $1000 before I finally sold it. 
So, say what you will to deny my claim, but I know what I know, hence your words fall far short of my personal experience.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Papawx3 said:


> JustTheFacts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papawx3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mazda's computers have always been known to show a series of error codes when the vehicle reaches a predetermined mileage. This was designed into the vehicle for one reason: so that the owner would have to take it to a dealership.  I bought a new B2200 p/u back in 2000 and this was my sole dissatisfaction with it.  However I learned how to disable these error codes on mine.
> Most "local garages" don't have the proper equipment necessary to correctly diagnose these issues.  As much as I hate it, I'm going to have to recommend that you take it to a Mazda dealership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Again, untrue. If a service light comes on it is for a reason.* Now that reason could be that the light or computer itself is faulty, but I can assure you no manufacture is designing vehicles to turn a light on for no reason.  What incentive would there even be to do so? So that a person would take a newish vehicle into a dealership and the manufacture would have to pay for warranty work performed? That's counter productive. As for out of warranty vehicles, manufactures do not make any percentage off repairs done at dealerships. They just don't. So , again, no incentive.
> 
> Not to mention the regulatory standards that they must meet.
> 
> As for most your comment about most local shops don't have the right diagnostic tools, you are absolutely correct, most don't and you should avoid those shops like the plague.  With the latest J2357 standard the government has mandated that all manufactures who  sell vehicles in the US must provide access to ALL factory level diagnostics to consumer. Now that simply means they have to conform to ODBII standards as far as diagnostics and they must make their data available. Each shop is of course responsible for buying its own diagnostic equipment , and also each manufacture charges a subscription fee to access their data (except Hyundai who gives free access)
> 
> So yes, it's expensive, I just bought a new OTC Genisys Touch which is capable of factory level diagnostic work as well as flash programming on every vehicle on the market today ( providing of course that it is new enough to have such technology) The device cost me $5000 , but is a necessary investment if you want to provide professional service.
> 
> Also, as I said in an earlier post, IF I have to get into a manufacture's database I have to pay for that access.  So don't come griping when I charge you for diagnostic time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over this. That's not my style.
> I do know though that I bought a 1990 Mazda B2200 (brand new from the dealership) and the "Check Engine" light turned on every 60,000 miles, just like clockwork.   The first couple of times I took it to the dealership for service and paid them $250+ each visit.
> Then I was told about a switch that's activated by the gears in the odometer.  (Which makes it not only intentional, but actually designed into the original manufacture of the vehicle.) I was also told how to turn the switch back off.  Using this knowledge, I figure I finally saved myself about $1000 before I finally sold it.
> So, say what you will to deny my claim, but I know what I know, hence your words fall far short of my personal experience.
Click to expand...


What are you talking about? I didn't claim that manufactures didn't program lights to come on at a certain mileage. I said they do not do so for NO reason. In the case of your truck the reason is to remind the driver to change the timing belt. Which is absolutely recommended at that mileage 

Here's some Mazda B2200 owners discussing just that.

Check Engine Light at 140,000 on B2200 pickup - Mazda Forum - Mazda Enthusiast Forums

The reason for this reminder is simple. A broken timing belt on an overhead cam motor could , and indeed probably WILL, result in catastrophic motor damage. This was Mazda's attempt to prevent that. Check engine light comes on, driver says oh yeah into the dealer I go, dealer reads codes says nothing wrong, the light was just a reminder that you need to replace your timing belt.


----------



## Papawx3

OK, I didn't know that.  Then again, there wasn't too much of this info available online back then.  Come to think of it, there wasn't much of anything online back then. 
But no matter, I sold that truck in 2002, and it only had just over 275,000 miles on it.  Thanks for the info anyway.


----------



## JustTheFacts

Papawx3 said:


> OK, I didn't know that.  Then again, there wasn't too much of this info available online back then.  Come to think of it, there wasn't much of anything online back then.
> But no matter, I sold that truck in 2002, and it only had just over 275,000 miles on it.  Thanks for the info anyway.



Not a problem, and I wasn't trying to make you look foolish, or anything like that. Just a lot of misinformation out there, and I'm passionate about auto repair, so I like to make sure people are informed.


----------



## syrenn

hopefully the tire shop fulfills your emotional needs of obsession.....


----------



## Paulie

Katzndogz said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do what I've done for the past 30 years - find a Hispanic auto shop and take it there! They know what they're doing and want your repeat business.
> 
> I had a car that kept wearing out tires. I took it to ten different mechanics and had it aligned at least six times. Took it to a Mexican mechanic. He looked it over, got a sledge hammer, and straightened out the bent tie rod that was causing the problem. Cost? About $20!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That COULD work, then again it could not work.   Take it to a hispanic auto repair shop and you have even odds that your car is stripped of its parts and the unusable carcass dumped half way to mexico.
Click to expand...


What a weird life you must live.

Btw, don't ask auto part store clerks.  They most likely don't know dick.

The only good advice in this thread is learn about auto repairs.  You'll find that a ton of regular car repair info is basic and can be done by almost anyone.

I bet you didn't think you'd make it through college either.  Learning auto mechanics is no different than learning anything else.  It's worth the time and effort and has literally saved me THOUSANDS.


----------



## Underhill

Generally what you say is true.    

And I would add that self diagnosing isn't all that tough.    90% of the things that go wrong on my cars I can diagnose just in driving the car.   The main exception to that is electrical issues which can truly suck for a shade tree mechanic.    

But anyone can learn to do their own basic repairs (brakes, oil, plugs, shocks/struts, etc...).    Just get a manual, some tools and follow directions.


----------



## KudoZ

Underhill said:


> Generally what you say is true.
> 
> And I would add that self diagnosing isn't all that tough.    90% of the things that go wrong on my cars I can diagnose just in driving the car.   The main exception to that is electrical issues which can truly suck for a shade tree mechanic.
> 
> But anyone can learn to do their own basic repairs (brakes, oil, plugs, shocks/struts, etc...).    Just get a manual, some tools and follow directions.



  I did all those things including rebuilding my own carburators back in the 60's.  But now I look under the hood and don't recognize anything.  Also there is no place you can stick your hands and reach stuff.  You have to pull a ton of junk out of your way to get to a simple repair.  Then you have to remember how to put it back.
  I guess there are no longer shops where you pull in, have them see what's wrong and fix it.  Now days they want to replace every used part on your car, so they can build wealth.  They don't care about what you need.


----------



## Underhill

KudoZ said:


> Underhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generally what you say is true.
> 
> And I would add that self diagnosing isn't all that tough.    90% of the things that go wrong on my cars I can diagnose just in driving the car.   The main exception to that is electrical issues which can truly suck for a shade tree mechanic.
> 
> But anyone can learn to do their own basic repairs (brakes, oil, plugs, shocks/struts, etc...).    Just get a manual, some tools and follow directions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did all those things including rebuilding my own carburators back in the 60's.  But now I look under the hood and don't recognize anything.  Also there is no place you can stick your hands and reach stuff.  You have to pull a ton of junk out of your way to get to a simple repair.  Then you have to remember how to put it back.
> I guess there are no longer shops where you pull in, have them see what's wrong and fix it.  Now days they want to replace every used part on your car, so they can build wealth.  They don't care about what you need.
Click to expand...


Been complaining about these changes since the late 80's.    I forget which car it was (Celebrity maybe?),  but I remember helping my friend replace spark plugs on his late 80's car.   We had to disconnect a motor mount  to get to the plugs on his V6.  

But most basic maintenance can still be managed.


----------



## Jarlaxle

That's just about any FWD car with a V6.   Three plugs will almost always be buried!


----------



## Underhill

Jarlaxle said:


> That's just about any FWD car with a V6.   Three plugs will almost always be buried!



Could be.   Most of my vehicles since then have been 4 cylinder cars or SUV's with the engine mounted the other way....


----------



## NYcarbineer

KudoZ said:


> How can a common man find a reputable shop where the mechanic's salary doesn't depend on his sales?  I am constantly being bombarded with things they say I need done when I only want to car to keep the car running.  I am not rich.  Most places charge 80 bucks an hour for labor.  They want 80 bucks just to check an engine light on the dash and that does not include fixing it.  I know I'm getting screwed because I go from place to place and every prognosis is different.



Autozone will check your trouble code for free if you have a check engine light on.  

In NY you can take your car/truck to the school system's vocational training centers and have it fixed by students, with teacher supervision of course, for the cost of the parts, free labor.


----------



## strollingbones

when you have a subaru the check engine light is always on....

i have had the same mechanic for 25 years..that helps....when the economy collapsed...he closed his shop he was renting and opened a small shop by his house....i went with him...i was loyal...it paid off...i can call and get my car worked on the next day if not that day...  he just did the front brake pads, both rear struts and inspected the car for a total of 418 bucks and some odd cents.....

he took off my swag bar.....i am not sure why or what it is....


----------



## Toronado3800

Interesting.  I actually just had a good experience with NTB.  power steering line on my MarkVIII broke.  It is a needless pain to repair.  Real bad idea on Ford's part in 98 and I did not feel like changing my oil and dragging my tools to work or paying for a tow home.

So I drove it a half mile to NTB.  

Guys set a price, messed up a line which Ford saw the need to bury in the frame, and while it took them a couole extra days they did it at no extra cost and were pretty honest.  I will cut them some slack, it was the same line I was worried about twisting if I did it myself so I might actually buy my next set of tires from them for not trying to recover extra cost from me.


----------



## Katzndogz

I had a mechanic tell me a coolant leak required a new air conditioning system for $2,500.00.   I went to another mechanic who said the leak could be fixed for $200.00 and it would cost $600.00 for a whole new air conditioning system.  I got the new system.

Shop around.


----------



## Toronado3800

Yeah, mechanics have opinion on what needs to be done and communications matters.  The 134a switchover created some confusion in the AC field.  

In defense if the occasional high estimate, I don't know if I would be comfortable selling head gasket jobs instead of just a rebuilt engine.  Head gasket repairs seem to require a certain amount of psychic knowledge of what other internal components were damaged when the car overheated.


----------



## Zona

longknife said:


> Do what I've done for the past 30 years - find a Hispanic auto shop and take it there! They know what they're doing and want your repeat business.
> 
> I had a car that kept wearing out tires. I took it to ten different mechanics and had it aligned at least six times. Took it to a Mexican mechanic. He looked it over, got a sledge hammer, and straightened out the bent tie rod that was causing the problem. Cost? About $20!!!



At first, your post sounds racist but dammit, you are right.  Mexican Mechs are great.  Here is the thing though...walk in as a non Hispanic guy, you might as well be wearing a money coat.  Know a Hispanic guy who calls in for you and you are all set.

I happen to have a very good friend who is Hispanic and have tested out my theory many times.  He ALWAYS gets a better deal than I do when I walk in cold.  I have no problem with this arraignment.  Its rare something goes down I cant fix anyway.

This is true with everything from car issues to tree trimming.  My buddy always knows "a guy".    Whenever he says that we always crack up.


----------

