# US suit sees manipulations of oil trades in 2008



## JimH52 (May 24, 2011)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/global/25oil.html?_r=1&hp

I hope they give them the maximum pentalty.


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## Care4all (May 24, 2011)

betcha that is happening now too


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## Mr. H. (May 24, 2011)

Some extremely ballzy, risky activity going on there. 

They may have influenced other impressionable traders' decisions by holding a portion of "excess" physical barrels in but one of many markets, but  proving that their actions "caused futures prices to rise" across the board is a waste of time. 

It's interesting that the real run-up in prices didn't occur until long after these guys quit.


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## whitehall (May 24, 2011)

What's the maximum penalty in a civil suit? It's all smoke and mirrors. Democrats have done their best for decades to make sure the US would not be independent of foreign oil. Now they are trying to blame high energy prices on the usual (capitalist) suspects.


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## Mr. H. (May 24, 2011)

If crude oil and natural gas are so critical to so many other industries including agriculture why in the world do we expect it to be, and remain in perpetuity, as cheap as dirt?


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## Care4all (May 25, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> If crude oil and natural gas are so critical to so many other industries including agriculture why in the world do we expect it to be, and remain in perpetuity, as cheap as dirt?



cheap as dirt gasoline would be 33 cents a gallon, as it was prior to the oil embargo in the 70's....or cheap as dirt gasoline would be below $1.00 a gallon as it was during a part of the clinton administration....$1.80 a gallon gas was outrageous in price, the first time it hit that price, which i believe was during the last Bush administration....now it seems cheap after hitting $4 bucks a gallon.....

dirt cheap gas is relative.

I am fine with gasoline going up in price 300%-400% since Clinton, AS LONG AS our family income can rise as much as well!  (no such luck as of this point)


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## Mr. H. (May 25, 2011)

Joe Petrowski of Gulf Oil was on CNBC this morning. He sees weakening in the energy markets for the months ahead. There was a brief discussion of this US lawsuit. and he agreed that improprieties should be prosecuted. His opinion is that trading adds volitility but does not "control" markets. I tend to agree.


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## Mr. H. (May 25, 2011)

Bart Chilton of the CFTC was just on. He stressed the term "alleged" improprieties in trading. 
Speculative long positions can add to all commodity prices, not just oil prices. 
He said when you have a lot of volume trading, there's room for "mischief".


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## Chilton (Jun 2, 2011)

Crude oil prices are not control by the US economy rather controlled by OPEC which makes it hard for us to meet both ends.I think government is concentrating on the crude oil so much it even violated  the basic human rights in many countries by occupying their oil reserves by killing the innocent people.


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## waltky (Jun 7, 2011)

Yea, if yer payin' for yer gas with a company credit card...

*GM CEO calls for $1 gas tax hike*
_June 7, 2011: General Motors CEO Dan Akerson said his company and his industry would be helped, not hurt, if consumers paid higher gas taxes._


> In an interview published in Tuesday's Detroit News, Akerson floated the idea of a $1 a gallon increase in the gas tax as a way to encourage buyers to purchase smaller, more fuel efficient cars. Greg Martin, spokesman for GM's Washington office, confirmed that the quotes reflect Akerson's and GM's view.  Akerson said he would support a jump in the gas tax if it came instead of tighter fuel economy regulations that GM and other automakers will have to meet in coming years. By the year 2025, automakers could be forced to hit fuel economy averages of as much as 62 mpg.
> 
> Akerson said that a higher gas tax, including an immediate 50-cent-a-gallon increase to take advantage of recent declines in gas prices, would probably make some of his Republican friends "puke." But he said it would do more to help the environment than the pending fuel economy rules.  "There ought to be a discussion on the cost versus the benefits," Akerson told the paper. "What we are going to do is tax production here, and that will cost us jobs."
> 
> ...


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## waltky (Jul 11, 2011)

Granny says dem Arabs an' Big Oil an' speculators is all in cahoots together...

*Gas prices: Down but big slide may be over*
_July 10, 2011: The two-month drop in gasoline prices across the country has stopped, according to a survey published Sunday._


> The average price of a gallon of regular gasoline is $3.62, down just a penny over the past two weeks, the Lundberg survey found. The price is a 38-cent drop from the beginning of May, when the average topped off at $4 a gallon.  "Further dramatic drops probably aren't in the cards," publisher Trilby Lundberg said.
> 
> Crude oil prices bounced back up $5 per barrel during the same period, she said. If oil prices stay "more or less steady, gasoline prices will be too," she said.  Although the United States is in the middle of peak demand season, demand is weak, Lundberg said -- a result of the economy, with fewer people taking driving vacations and the unemployed having no jobs to drive to and from each day.
> 
> ...


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## editec (Jul 11, 2011)

Hang 'em.

Hang 'em high.


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## whitehall (Jul 12, 2011)

In '08 democrats held the majority in both houses of congress. What was the first thing on the democrat party agenda when they gained the majority half way into Bush's 2nd term? Fannie Mae? Oil prices? Nope. Democrats held hearings on steroid use in Baseball. The powerful chairman of the House Banking committee told Americans that Fannie Mae was fine while it was in desperate shape and on the verge of collapse. What are we to make about Barney Frank's lame excuse that he had "ideological blinders" on when Fannie collapsed? He let it happen? Did democrats allow crooked oil trades?


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## waltky (Sep 24, 2011)

Granny says dem oil companies, an' speculators, an' Arabs an' bankers an' politicians is gettin' ready to get in cahoots together again...

*Downtrodden Oil Prices May Be Poised to Spike*
_9/23/11 - Oil prices plunged below $80 Friday as European debt panic slammed into the markets with the downgrade of eight Greek banks by Moody's Investor Service and traders liquidated positions to cover margin calls._


> West Texas Intermediate light sweet crude oil for November delivery tumbled 82 cents to $79.69 and the November Brent crude contract slumped by 54 cents to $103.44 a barrel, as Moody's declared that the Greek government "faces significant solvency challenges and historical experience shows that small sovereign debt restructurings have often been followed by larger sovereign defaults."  On Friday, Moody's downgraded eight Greek banks by two notches, highlighting the massive amounts of money they could lose due to their gargantuan exposure to Greek government bonds.
> 
> Moody's warned that private creditors could also face major losses due to their large exposure to the tenuous Greek government bonds.  Friday's oil price plunge mirrored the previous day's bloodbath, when oil prices got pummeled following reports that pointed to signs of contraction in the Chinese economy -- the biggest consumer of energy in the world -- and recessionary conditions in the eurozone. OptionsXpress analyst Michael Zarembski said there are signs right now that refinery buying in the futures is on the decline.  "The moves have been exacerbated by some larger players liquidating positions," said Kingsview Financial trader Matthew Zeman.  In the U.S., the Fed's "Operation Twist" announcement provided little comfort to the markets, who had just received news of another round of weak jobs numbers.
> 
> ...


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## Mr. H. (Sep 24, 2011)

If you want oil tomorrow, you better be willing to pay for it today.


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## Care4all (Sep 25, 2011)

whitehall said:


> In '08 democrats held the majority in both houses of congress. What was the first thing on the democrat party agenda when they gained the majority half way into Bush's 2nd term? Fannie Mae? Oil prices? Nope. Democrats held hearings on steroid use in Baseball. The powerful chairman of the House Banking committee told Americans that Fannie Mae was fine while it was in desperate shape and on the verge of collapse. What are we to make about Barney Frank's lame excuse that he had "ideological blinders" on when Fannie collapsed? He let it happen? Did democrats allow crooked oil trades?



gawd, why can't you people stop making things up?  Why lie?

the democrats did not win the majority halfway through president bush's term....they began reigning in 2007.

the democrats did NOT start the baseball hearings on steroids....that took place in 2005 BY REPUBLICANS.


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## uscitizen (Sep 25, 2011)

WAAH those liberals are picking on poor little oil companies!


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## uscitizen (Sep 25, 2011)

Umm didn't Exon have a negative federal income tax bill in 2008 or was that for 2009?


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## zonly1 (Oct 1, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> WAAH those liberals are picking on poor little oil companies!



But solyndra is okay?


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## Mr. H. (Oct 1, 2011)

So, who manipulated the price of oil from $140 in '07 to $80 today?


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## editec (Oct 1, 2011)

JimH52 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/global/25oil.html?_r=1&hp
> 
> I hope they give them the maximum pentalty.


 
And if this case is proven against them?

They get fined.

And given the manipulation, I doubt the fines even exceed the amount they STOLE.

Now in an honorable and sane society, HORDERS who do this to their society get SHOT.


This is both a crime against the FREE MARKET and a crime against the common wealth.

And by allowing these criminals to get off with fines?

We continue to encourage a MORAL HAZARD.


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## waltky (Oct 18, 2011)

Get ready for higher gas prices...

*Oil Prices Spike as Glut Concerns Ease*
_10/18/11 --- The U.S. benchmark West Texas Intermediate oil price was strengthening Tuesday as fresh supply reports challenged the notion of an insurmountable glut of the product._


> WTI light sweet crude oil for December delivery was gaining throughout the day, up $1.85 to $88.47, and the December Brent crude oil contract was recovering by 80 cents to $110.96 a barrel after falling 60 cents to $109.56.  WTI has been seeing some "pretty supportive" moves considering the negative currents flowing through equities and the foreign exchange markets, says MF Global senior markets strategist Richard Ilczyszyn. "WTI has hung up there, while Brent pulled back," he said.  One reason for WTI's gains has been "the perceived glut of [WTI] oil waning a bit," the strategist said. Ilczyszyn says satellite imagery is showing that Cushing, Okla. crude inventory fell 2% last week, and Midwest storage facilities have been running at roughly 30 million barrels, compared with the full storage capacity of 48 million barrels.
> 
> The below full-capacity storage levels are being attributed to the tail-end period of refinery maintenance, where refineries are switching from summer to winter feed blends, and aren't importing as much of the feed in the process.  Brent, meanwhile, was experiencing pressure due to the fact that there's been no major supply disruptions in the Middle East recently, and with Libya beginning to come fully back online.  Rebels against former Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi have taken over the last Gadhafi stronghold, and another big shipment of Libyan oil has been exported, according to PFGBest senior analyst Phil Flynn.
> 
> ...


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## CrusaderFrank (Oct 18, 2011)

What was Soros's book at the time?


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## editec (Oct 20, 2011)

JimH52 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/global/25oil.html?_r=1&hp
> 
> I hope they give them the maximum pentalty.


 

Hang them for Economic TREASON.

Damned right I'm serious.


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