# corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines



## LA RAM FAN (May 17, 2018)

cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .

US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians


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## iamwhatiseem (May 17, 2018)

*impartial....United Nations*

Those two words don't even belong in the same book, much less the same sentence.
Hilarious


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## toomuchtime_ (May 17, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians


Well, some one has to keep people like you on a leash, and the US did it.


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## Anathema (May 17, 2018)

Throw rocks at soldiers- get shot.

Support people throwing rocks at soldiers- get shot.

Investigation done.


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## Hollie (May 17, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



I suppose you adding the term "murdered" was to include some pointless melodrama?


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## OldLady (May 17, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians


Russia blocks plenty of UN suggestions, too.   Why would we need an "investigation" into what happened in Gaza?  The whole thing was right there, front and center, in the news for days.  Hamas has said 50 of those killed were their fighters.  Israel has been internationally condemned for what it did.  What more do we need?


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## WillowTree (May 17, 2018)

So Israel is not allowed to fight back against Hamas? Tell me why!


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## Hossfly (May 17, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians


Hamas has already admitted that almost all of those killed were armed Hamas members.


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## montelatici (May 17, 2018)

Hamas said no such thing.


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## xyz (May 17, 2018)

Hossfly said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...


I think they said like 60 or 70% or something like that, maybe more, but an Israeli poster said none of them were because Hamas members don't want to be killed so they pay others to protest.

So which is it? Maybe somewhere in the middle?


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## ILOVEISRAEL (May 17, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



It’s my understanding that the Israelis filmed it, the U.S. plans to show it tonight at 8P.M. and serve popcorn at the event


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## Hollie (May 17, 2018)

montelatici said:


> Hamas said no such thing.



Actually, yes they did.

But, don't let the facts color your falsehoods.


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## Penelope (May 17, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



Israel gets away with war crimes non stop, and the US sticks up for them, go figure.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 17, 2018)

Penelope said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...



yeah and all these sick paid shills of Israel that troll this section night and day are sick monsters as much as our government and Israel are.


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## Hollie (May 17, 2018)

Penelope said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...



What war crimes are you babbling about?


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## member (May 17, 2018)

OldLady said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
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> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...



_*"Hamass*_  *has said 50 of those killed were their*  *fighters.  Israel has been internationally condemned for what it did.* *What more do we need?"*


..for starters.....for people to stop calling *terrorists* *"fighters"* and *"warriors."*

...and non-palestinian terrorists (the shoemaker   sweet-shop owner,  cab driver...) need to elect NON-terrorist 'personnel' as their government.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (May 17, 2018)

Penelope said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...



 The Palestinians in their “ peace march” try to tear down the fence, throw rocks, throw Malatov cocktails among other weapons and the Kool Aid Pro Palestinian drinkers stick up for them. Go figure.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (May 17, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Penelope said:
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Surviving


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## shimon (May 17, 2018)

of the 61 so called murdered Palestinians I wonder if they subtracted the ones that were still moving under their sheets when their noses got itchy.... In all seriousness though and what gets left out is what would have happened if those Palestinians had gotten through the fence into Israel proper and killed a bunch of Israelis...Would the bleeding hearts say anything...Would they condemn the Palestinians...They rarely have before if ever so the OP  has this backwards it is the corrupt UN that needs an independent investigation of their actions ... Humorous really if it wasn’t so darn disgusting. Their motto is Jew fight fair let me tie both of your hands behind you back so we can murder or defeat you...They just don’t like the victim ( the Israelis) fighting back it is just so unfair....


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## RoccoR (May 17, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  montelatici, et al,

Again, it is noted that the entire point of the exercise is for the "March of Return" to generate a media event by sacrificing Arab Palestinian lives in creating the

*(POINT)*


montelatici said:


> Hamas said no such thing.


*(COUNTERPOINT)*



			
				Khaled al-Batsh said:
			
		

> warned Israel against harming Arabs participating in the events, hinting that this could lead to a military response by armed groups.
> 
> Speaking to the Hamas site “Al-Risala,” Batsh said, "We have behind us men and guns who know very well how to protect our people ... Our backs will not be exposed ... We have organizations of struggle that protect the body and they will put an end to any attempt to harm the people and attack it."





			
				DR Salah Bardawil said:
			
		

> told the private Palestinian news outlet Baladna TV that 50 of the protesters killed in Monday's violence were members, with the others being "from the people." He did not specify what roles the victims had in the organization, such as whether they were members of the group's armed wing.


*(IMPORTANT REFERENCES)*



			
				A/RES/2/110  Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war  said:
			
		

> all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;





			
				S/RES/1624 (2005)  said:
			
		

> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> (c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​2. Calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a) from entering their territory;





			
				Article 2(4) UN Charter said:
			
		

> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.



*(• ∑ •)*

I think it is pretty clear that the Arab Palestinians are purposely provoking the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (May 17, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  montelatici, et al,
> 
> Again, it is noted that the entire point of the exercise is for the "March of Return" to generate a media event by sacrificing Arab Palestinian lives in creating the
> ...


It is the blockade that is provoking the confrontation.


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## Hossfly (May 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
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> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



Criminal terrorists forcing a blockade. Tat for tit.


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## toomuchtime_ (May 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
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> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...


Nonsense, this was a product of the rivalry between Hamas and the PLO.   Hamas has failed at everything it has tried to do so now it is trying to establish its creds by saying it is fighting and dying for the imagined "right of return" while the PLO does nothing.  There was never a possibility that they would be allowed to breach the fence and invade Israel and there was never a possibility that whatever propaganda the body count would generate any changes on the ground, so unless we assume the leadership of Hamas is just stupid, the only motive they could have had was to compete with the PLO.


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## P F Tinmore (May 17, 2018)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> > RoccoR said:
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Oooooo, terrorists.


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## rylah (May 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
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"There's no Swastika, no Swastika in my backyard"


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## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2018)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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There is nothing to indicate that Hamas orchestrated this march. Some of their members have participated as unarmed protestors. But I have seen no guns in any of the videos.


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## Hollie (May 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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I suppose you would think that after Hamas has encouraged the rioting and offered a graduated payment scale for islamo-knuckleheads who are injured or killed.

But yes, guns are inappropriate at Peaceful Islamic terrorist riots. Explosives and Molotov cocktails on the other hand.....

IDF says it thwarted 8 Hamas gunmen attempting to breach fence Monday


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## ILOVEISRAEL (May 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
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> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



It’s Hamas smuggling weapons in that initiated the blockade


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## RoccoR (May 18, 2018)

RE  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  et al,

Fatou Bensouda (ICC's Chief Prosecutor) says anyone 'who incites or engages in acts of violence' is liable to prosecution and ICC 'will record any instance of incitement or resort to unlawful force.

*•  Statement of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Fatou Bensouda, regarding the worsening situation in Gaza  •*

*VERY IMPORTANT EXCERPT*:


			
				Office of the Prosecutor said:
			
		

> Any person who incites or engages in acts of violence including by ordering, requesting, encouraging or contributing in any other manner to the commission of crimes within ICC's jurisdiction is liable to prosecution before the Court, with full respect for the principle of complementarity. The resort to violence must stop.



Like I've said before, it is pretty obvious to the outside world who is encouraging what.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## ILOVEISRAEL (May 18, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> > toomuchtime_ said:
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P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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Doesn’t matter who instigated it. The fact of the matter it was anything BUT a “ peaceful protest”


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## Hollie (May 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
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> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



May I suggest you better coordinate your announcements with the other islamic terrorist politburo spokesturbans?

I remember reading that the riots were in response to the US embassy move to Jerusalem, the israeli independence anniversary and, of course, rioting to protest the mere existence of Jews.


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## member (May 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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*"...some of their members..."*

Interesting how you call them (hamass 'affiliates').-- _*"members." *_[. . .we got warriors, fighters and *members* now]

pathetic.  even you can't bring yourself to say..."the gov't" _participated as unarmed protestors._"

member, schmember.  didn't they pre-announce that they were going to "orchestrate' this protest? [a riot really].

 this game you play.  hamass = a terrorist organization.  you and abass:   Nazi's. case closed.


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## toomuchtime_ (May 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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There were numerous reports of Sinwar and Haniyeh exhorting their followers to try to breach the fence, and attacking the fence is an attack on Israel so soldiers are allowed to use lethal force when necessary to defend their country even when their own lives are not in danger, so while there was some gunfire from Gaza it was irrelevant.  It is good to see, however, that you find Hamas staging all of this, persuading young men and boys to sacrifice their lives to give Hamas an edge over the PLO, sufficiently shameful that you need to lie about it.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 19, 2018)

iamwhatiseem said:


> *impartial....United Nations*
> 
> Those two words don't even belong in the same book, much less the same sentence.
> Hilarious



Its only in your warped sick mind that they are not impartial since they condemn the murderous actions of Israel.

another paid zionist troll to add to ignore.


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## LA RAM FAN (May 19, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Throw rocks at soldiers- get shot.
> 
> Support people throwing rocks at soldiers- get shot.
> 
> Investigation done.



thats ALL the palestines have to defend themselves with. An Israel solder shoots at a child walking in the street minding his own business,all he/she can do is throw a rock back at him at his weapon in defense you are correct.


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## xyz (May 19, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Anathema said:
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Where are the 2nd Amendment supporters when you need them?


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## Anathema (May 19, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> ]thats ALL the palestines have to defend themselves with. An Israel solder shoots at a child walking in the street minding his own business,all he/she can do is throw a rock back at him at his weapon in defense you are correct.



That's their problem. They picked a fight they can't win against a foe willing to do whatever is necessary to win. Tough luck.


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## Anathema (May 19, 2018)

xyz said:


> Where are the 2nd Amendment supporters when you need them?



There is no Second Amendment in Israel or Pzlestine.


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## xyz (May 19, 2018)

Anathema said:


> xyz said:
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> > Where are the 2nd Amendment supporters when you need them?
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Neither in Russia, but Russians can contribute to the NRA and participate in its meetings.


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## xyz (May 19, 2018)

And I was told by this orange dude that it would have been great if France had something like the 2nd Amendment.


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## Anathema (May 19, 2018)

xyz said:


> Neither in Russia, but Russians can contribute to the NRA and participate in its meetings.



Anyone can contribute to the NRA. That doesn't mean the NRA can do anything for them.


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## Anathema (May 19, 2018)

xyz said:


> And I was told by this orange dude that it would have been great if France had something like the 2nd Amendment.



It would, but they dont. For hundreds of years the citizens have allowed themselves to be stripped of their natural rights to self-defense and the tools necessary to undertake that activity. If they prefer to be slaves that's their problem, not mine.


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## xyz (May 19, 2018)

Anathema said:


> xyz said:
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> > And I was told by this orange dude that it would have been great if France had something like the 2nd Amendment.
> ...


There are a lot of Muslims in France. You think they should have the right to own guns. O.k.


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## Anathema (May 19, 2018)

xyz said:


> There are a lot of Muslims in France. You think they should have the right to own guns. O.k.



I believe any law abiding, mentally capable citizen adult should be allowed to own arms for their self-defense.


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## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.


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## admonit (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.


Yes, it doesn't really matter what this useless organization says. Just a pathetic clownery.


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## Hollie (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.



That video really does say it all. 

It says that this latest publicity stunt by Arabs-Moslems is as pointless as the last one; the flotilla publicity stunt.


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## member (May 20, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
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> 
> > *impartial....United Nations*
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_* ". . .another paid zionist troll to add to ignore."*_

yah big [ram] baby!


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## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

admonit said:


> Humanity said:
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> > It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.
> ...



Yep, another illiterate on Team Israel I see.


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## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
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> > It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.
> ...



And another illiterate!

Except this time her English comprehension is also doubtful.


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## admonit (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> admonit said:
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Pathetic.


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## Hollie (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
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It’s a shame you can’t defend even a cut and paste video. You’re forced to retreat to juvenile taunts. The only narrative the video “says” is that the UN has become a truly biased entity that caters to a one-sided agenda.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.



Yawn..,,   Nothing said about the Savages who tried to tear down the fence, throw Malatov Cocktails as well as other weapons.


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## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.




Hold the phone, here.  Did he just say that crossing a border does NOT amount to a threat?  And therefore, has just removed the right of States to protect their borders from armed forces penetrating their borders?


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## P F Tinmore (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
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> > It doesn't really matter whether the UN, an organisation, an individual says this (before Team Israel get bogged down with UN Rhetoric) this video clip really hits the nail on the head.
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Irrelevant argument. There is no border there.


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## toomuchtime_ (May 20, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


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An "interesting" statement.  Since Israel captured Gaza in the 1967 war, do you mean you now believe this land, held in belligerent occupation for  all these years is legitimately Israel's, disagreeing with the UN, EU that it is the legitimate border of Israel, or are you arguing that Israel should not exist at all, again disagreeing with the UN, EU, etc.?


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## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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He argues that Israel does not exist at all and that the entire territory is actually "Palestine" illegally being governed by a "occupying force".


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## Hollie (May 20, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
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Other than the irrelevance of Arabs-Moslems who died attempting to breach that border. 

I guess we can assume by your statement that similarly, Gaza'istan and the Islamist occupied West Bank have no borders, which they don't. 

That opens some interesting possibilities.


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## rylah (May 20, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


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If there's no border then Hamas has no authority.


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## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
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I find it a real shame that, you, as a human being, ok, I am making an assumption there, fails to see the heavy handedness of Israels response.

Preferring to get bogged down, as I predicted, in those two letter, UN... You are aware that virtually every country in the world has the same feelings as the UN in this instance?

And if you really want to look for a "truly biased entity" look no further than the US... The 'great'(?) leader has basically demoted the US from any possibilities of involvement in any peace talks and demoted itself in the 'world power' league!


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## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Not to mention that Tinmore also dodged the point of my post -- which is the UN has declared, as a principle of international law, that States do not have the right to protect their borders.  Its an astonishing negation of State's right to territorial integrity.


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## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Then neither does Israel you muppet!


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## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> which is the UN has declared, as a principle of international law, that States do not have the right to protect their borders



Now THAT is the most hilarious, ridiculous thing I have read from any Team Israel member for, well, at least 10 minutes!

Your views are noted and laughed at!


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## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> I find it a real shame that, you, as a human being, ok, I am making an assumption there, fails to see the heavy handedness of Israels response.



Conversely, its a shame most here do not acknowledge the threat posted to Israel and the real fear, not just of harm to Israeli citizens and Jews, but of harm to Gazan citizens by permitting rioting Arab Palestinians with lethal weapons into Israel.  

I think Israel has applied an extremely light hand, in proportion to the threat.


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## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

You are, in effect, saying that Israel should be less violent with people trying to kill them.


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## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
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> > which is the UN has declared, as a principle of international law, that States do not have the right to protect their borders
> ...



The quote from the video:

"An attempt to approach, or *crossing* or damaging, the ... fence do not amount to a threat to life or serious injury and are not sufficient grounds for the use of live ammunition."

He is declaring a prohibition on the use of lethal force to defend your borders.


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## Hollie (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
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Your attempts at snide remarks don't help when you're unable to defend an argument.

You and others try to make a crutch out of the "disproportionate force" meme, applied to Israel but that's a failed argument. There were thousands of islamics at the barrier fence shielding Israel. Those thousands of Peacefuul Inner Strugglers were accompanied by more excitable of your heroes, armed with various weapons and explosives.

There were significantly fewer Israel military personnel defending their country. The Israeli response to the attacking islamics was hardly disproportionate considering the numbers of invaders and the weapons presented by those invaders. Additionally, you are anxious to sidestep and avoid the fact that overwhelming, those islamics who were retired from life early were Hamas flunkies. They were present with the promise of cash for injuries suffered. Lets not forget that lovely islamic terrorist slogan: "we love death as you live life".  There was nothing disproportionate about the targeting skills of the israeli military. The more excitable muhammedan were skilfully culled.

Regarding your flailing about in connection with the Great Satan, yes, your impotent whining is noted. I guess you missed the thread about the Great Satan proposing options for both Arabs-Moslems and Israelis?


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## rylah (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


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And You base this on what? Numbers?

Israel and Jordan are the only ones who have the authority, and the only ones who can decide borders. 
Both are essentially 'Palestinian governments'.
While Hamas and PLO are just a bunch of troublemakers.

If Jordan decided they don't have any claim beyond the East Bank, it's up to Israel to decide. If Israel decided Gaza is beyond Israel, then the border it sets is the only sovereign border.


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## Hollie (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> You are, in effect, saying that Israel should be less violent with people trying to kill them.


My take-away is that he's demanding an entitlement for islamic terrorist attacks, that Israelis must be allowed only limited responses to those attacks and that the numbers of Israelis killed in any gee-had attacks must be equal to the numbers of Islamist attackers killed so as not be "disproportionate".


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## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > I find it a real shame that, you, as a human being, ok, I am making an assumption there, fails to see the heavy handedness of Israels response.
> ...



And that's where it all falls to pieces...

Only Team Israel and Israel itself thinks that... Oh and warmongers... Voila!

"extremely light hand" - Words of someone who has no regard for human life!


----------



## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



What border?

You mean the "green line" that Israel doesn't recognise as their border? That one?

Your words were actually "which is the UN has declared, as a principle of international law, that States do not have the right to protect their borders"

You seem to have changed your mind somewhat!


----------



## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



There were dozens of terrorists with weapons embedded among thousands of people being incited by their government to tear down the fence, storm Israel, and murder Israelis.  There were maps on government social media pages providing the shortest routes from breach locations at the fence to Jews for killing.

The fact that only a tiny number of innocent civilians were killed (less than ten percent of the total dead) is ASTONISHING!  Do you know what normal combatant to civilian death ratios are in other war zones?


----------



## Hollie (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



"No regard for human life".

Yet it was your islamic terrorist heroes who were attacking at the security fence, attempting to invade Israel and "rip the hearts out of Jews". 

You're a convert to Islamism, right?


----------



## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> And that's where it all falls to pieces...
> 
> Only Team Israel and Israel itself thinks that... Oh and warmongers... Voila!



Yeah.  The higher standards for Israel are astounding.


----------



## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Hollie said:


> "No regard for human life".
> 
> Yet it was your islamic terrorist heroes who were attacking at the security fence, attempting to invade Israel and "rip the hearts out of Jews".



Some here who insist that Israel not be permitted to use lethal force unless it is in response to an immanent risk of death or serious injury, don't seem to be very vocal about the use of lethal force by Gazans, even though there is no threat of death or serious injury, or even a border breach for them.  Double standards, much?


----------



## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Your words were actually "which is the UN has declared, as a principle of international law, that States do not have the right to protect their borders"
> 
> You seem to have changed your mind somewhat!



You are playing word games.  The video which you put up claims to prohibit the use of lethal force even to protect your borders from invasion.  It is an astonishing shift of law.


----------



## Hollie (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > "No regard for human life".
> ...



I think that for an identifiable cabal, Arabs-Moslems dying as a result of their choosing to commit acts of war is of no concern. They want Israelis to die in equal or greater numbers so as to placate their insensate Jew hatreds.


----------



## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> You are playing word games



How so?

You mean that I misquoted you?

If that is the case then you should report me to admin immediately. No, seriously, if I really have misquoted you then report me Shusha!

If that ISN'T the case then at least be honest with yourself and admit that YOU are the one "playing word games"!


----------



## harmonica (May 20, 2018)

the UN is shit
the Pals are the murderers--Israel has always been on the defense 
why don't you go live with the Pals a few years and then tell us how you feel?


----------



## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> It is an astonishing shift of law.



Whoooo hold on there...

It was a statement from the UN Shusha. You know them, the UN that, according to Team Israel does not and cannot make law!

You guys are falling apart at the seams... Time for a team meeting to agree on what exactly you mantra will be over the coming year I think!

Ah but wait, that is the zionist way... Manipulate a situation so that Israel will always come out Daz white!


----------



## Humanity (May 20, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > And that's where it all falls to pieces...
> ...



It is OUTSTANDING how you zionists can jump from being the poor, defenseless, down trodden to having the absolute right to murder, indiscriminately, with impunity...

And you wonder why most of the world hates Israel and it's ways?


----------



## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It is an astonishing shift of law.
> ...



No, but they apparently quote law.  Wasn't that your point in posting the video?  To help us on Team Israel understand the law?

Show me the law which says that States are prohibited from defending the crossing of a legal boundary.  Especially when that crossing is by armed people with the stated intent of murdering your citizens.


----------



## Shusha (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> It is OUTSTANDING how you zionists can jump from being the poor, defenseless, down trodden to having the absolute right to murder, indiscriminately, with impunity...
> 
> And you wonder why most of the world hates Israel and it's ways?



Israel is not murdering indiscriminately.  She is being VERY discriminate.  That was my point.  

The double standard are those on Team Palestine who insist Gazans have the right to use lethal force even when there is no immanent and immediate risk of death or serious injury while concurrently insisting that Israel is not.  It is a blatant hypocrisy.  

If I am misrepresenting your beliefs, please clarify by stating clearly, "Gaza is not permitted to use lethal force unless there is immanent and immediate individual risk of death or serious injury."  You can follow it up by insisting that every single use of lethal force by Gaza is followed up with an emergency Security Council meeting and independent inquiry.


----------



## LeftofLeft (May 20, 2018)

iamwhatiseem said:


> *impartial....United Nations*
> 
> Those two words don't even belong in the same book, much less the same sentence.
> Hilarious



The US is corrupt and the UN is not? Recall.... Oil for Food.


----------



## harmonica (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It is an astonishing shift of law.
> ...


Israelis are not the only ones who had *violent confrontations*/conflicts/problems/etc with the Pals--even their own kind doesn't want them because they are jackasses


> groups within the PLO had started to openly call for the overthrow of the Hashemite monarchy.


!!


> and even attempted to assassinate King Hussein twice





> leading to *violent confrontations *between them and the Jordanian army


--sound familiar???!!!!!
Black September - Wikipedia
the Pals are the problem--not the Israelis


----------



## Coyote (May 20, 2018)

The IDF is apparently investigating this - in particular the killing of the photo-journalist Murtaja, and a 15 yr old youth, and unarmed civilians.  Cases where armed people were killed will not be looked at obviously...imo an independent investigation would be better off waiting for the results of the initial one first, to see if it is even needed.  

Israel questions soldiers over Gaza deaths as some seek legal counsel

They have yet to offer any evidence for their claim that Murtaja was a paid Hamas military member.


----------



## rylah (May 20, 2018)

Coyote said:


> The IDF is apparently investigating this - in particular the killing of the photo-journalist Murtaja, and a 15 yr old youth, and unarmed civilians.  Cases where armed people were killed will not be looked at obviously...imo an independent investigation would be better off waiting for the results of the initial one first, to see if it is even needed.
> 
> Israel questions soldiers over Gaza deaths as some seek legal counsel
> 
> They have yet to offer any evidence for their claim that Murtaja was a paid Hamas military member.



They don't have to- Palestinian propaganda already expose that he indeed used a drone during the confrontation on the border.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (May 20, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...






Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It is an astonishing shift of law.
> ...




“ International Law” is a joke ( like you) Please tell us why “ International Law” didn’t recognize Israel’s Borders or why the U.N. “ peacekeepers”
actually left the “ neutral area” before the 67 War broke out.
  Please tell us why the U.N. didn’t intervene when Egypt blocked the Straits of Tiran, Israel made a formal complaint and nothing was done.  The Palestinians will never have E. Jerusalem or the West Bank.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 20, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



You still whining about the dead Hamas terrorists?


----------



## Coyote (May 20, 2018)

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > The IDF is apparently investigating this - in particular the killing of the photo-journalist Murtaja, and a 15 yr old youth, and unarmed civilians.  Cases where armed people were killed will not be looked at obviously...imo an independent investigation would be better off waiting for the results of the initial one first, to see if it is even needed.
> ...



He was a member of the press, they use drones.  Your Defense Minister claimed he was a paid Hamas militant with nothing to substantiate that claim.  As of yet - there is nothing to substantiate it.

I'm sorry, but that is murder, and worse - an attempt to obscure it by defaming him.  He was unarmed, he was a member of the press, with a reputation for photo-journalism that was well earned.

Self defense is one thing.  Murder is another.


----------



## Coyote (May 20, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...



They weren't all terrorists.


----------



## Coyote (May 20, 2018)

Of course Liberman does not want Murtaja's death to be investigated: Liberman slams calls to probe death of Gaza journalist covering protests | MTL News

_The IDF announced after Murtaja‘s death was made public that it would be investigating the situation, but noted firmly that the IDF "does not kill journalists."
_
Well, they did.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 20, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...



I'd say 80% is a great batting average.


----------



## RoccoR (May 20, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  Coyote, et al,

Well, there are a million or so questions → and answers to the questions → you need to know before you (or anyone else for that matter, can come to any conclusion _(let alone if a crime of murder was committed and by whom)_.



EXCERPT:  Coyote said:


> I'm sorry, but that is murder, and worse - an attempt to obscure it by defaming him.  He was unarmed, he was a member of the press, with a reputation for photo-journalism that was well earned.
> 
> Self defense is one thing.  Murder is another.


*(OBSERVATION)*



			
				National Review  Ibraheem Abu Mustafa/Reuters By Mairead McArdle 16 May 2018 said:
			
		

> Hamas leader Salah Bardawil said in a televised interview that of the “62 people martyred, 50 were Hamas.”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


​
*(COMMENT)*

I have not seen any published article on investigative evidence _(physical, forensic or latent or otherwise)_ that would support the theory THAT the Israelis were the perpetrators anymore → THAN the Palestinian Journalist was killed by one of the members of HAMAS _(in close proximity)_ to inflame a media event.  The  Palestinian Journalist could have even been killed by another International Federation of Journalist which where also in close proximity.

These are three theories to the event.  The known evidence supports each of them equally as well.  Why choose the Israelis → the possible perpetrator the farthest away → rather than the one _(the IFJ member that took the pictures)_ in the closest proximity?

Most Respectfully,
R[/quote]


----------



## RoccoR (May 20, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  Coyote, et al,

Well, there are a million or so questions → and answers to the questions → you need to know before you (or anyone else for that matter, can come to any conclusion _(let alone if a crime of murder was committed and by whom)_.



EXCERPT:  Coyote said:


> I'm sorry, but that is murder, and worse - an attempt to obscure it by defaming him.  He was unarmed, he was a member of the press, with a reputation for photo-journalism that was well earned.
> 
> Self defense is one thing.  Murder is another.


*(OBSERVATION)*



			
				National Review  Ibraheem Abu Mustafa/Reuters By Mairead McArdle 16 May 2018 said:
			
		

> Hamas leader Salah Bardawil said in a televised interview that of the “62 people martyred, 50 were Hamas.”





			
				NBC News by Alastair Jamieson / May.17.2018 said:
			
		

> Salah Bardawil, a senior Hamas official, told Palestinian news outlet Baladna TV that 50 out of the 60 who died on Monday were members of his organization, while the rest were civilians.





			
				Business Insider said:
			
		

> A Palestinian journalist died on Saturday after being wounded by Israeli fire on Friday while covering deadly protests along the Israel-Gaza border, health officials said.
> 
> Yaser Murtaja, 30, a cameraman for Palestinian Ain Media, was the 29th Palestinian killed in the week-long protests.
> 
> ...


​
*(COMMENT)*

I have not seen any published article on investigative evidence _(physical, forensic or latent or otherwise)_ that would support the theory THAT the Israelis were the perpetrators anymore → THAN the Palestinian Journalist was killed by one of the members of HAMAS _(in close proximity)_ to inflame a media event.  The  Palestinian Journalist could have even been killed by another International Federation of Journalist which where also in close proximity.

These are three theories to the event.  The known evidence supports each of them equally as well.  Why choose the Israelis → the possible perpetrator the farthest away → rather than the one _(the IFJ member that took the pictures)_ in the closest proximity?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## iamwhatiseem (May 21, 2018)

LeftofLeft said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > *impartial....United Nations*
> ...



Proportionality
Look it up


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 21, 2018)

Coyote said:


> The IDF is apparently investigating this


Every time Israel investigates itself it finds itself not guilty.

Coincident that.


----------



## Geaux4it (May 21, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



Dead Arabs  

((((YAWN )))

-Geaux


----------



## Coyote (May 21, 2018)

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



The only one I am referring to is Mutarja.  If your third theory had merit, why did Liberman immediately claim he was a paid Hamas militant, offering nothing to substantiate it?  Don’t you think if The IDF had not shot him they would have said so by now?  So no, the three theories do not have equal merit.  This was a young man with talent, no known history of involvement with Hamas, who had had a background check done by the US agency prior to an award.  He was unarmed.

This is where I get extremely frustrated.  Where as the pro-Palestinian side can’t admit that Israel has a right to defend its border or even that there were armed people involved, the pro-Israeli’s can’t admit that Israel does and has killed innocent people and might have used excessive lethal force (which they are examining.  In Murtaja’s case insult is added to injury by the unsubstantiated claims of Liberman.

No they are not three equal theories, because if the IDF had not shot him they sure as heck would have said so by now if only to clear their reputation.


----------



## Hollie (May 21, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > The IDF is apparently investigating this
> ...



Link?


----------



## RoccoR (May 21, 2018)

RE:  Corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestinians.
※→  Coyote, et al,

Well, I think we might have to agree to disagree; ⇒ not on whether or not the Israelis did - or - did not shoot the Palestinian Journalist → but RATHER on ⇒ whether or not there is sufficient open source information for us to make a knowledgeable allegation.  



Coyote said:


> No they are not three equal theories, because if the IDF had not shot him they sure as heck would have said so by now if only to clear their reputation.


*(COMMENT)*

I am sure that the police, intelligence, and security services are now _(and have been since the beginning of the protest)_ combing through the imagery and acoustics with today's technology _(as well as applying a whole host of other surveillance techniques)_ searching for associations, gaining new intelligence information and making connects.  

I have seen shooting team investigations take considerable time to come to a result even when they have had complete control over the crime scene _(not one almost instantly contaminated)_ and access to all the evidence.



Coyote said:


> This was a young man with talent, no known history of involvement with Hamas, who had had a background check done by the US agency prior to an award.


*(COMMENT)*

The possible connection with HAMAS _(other than the normal accreditation through HAMAS)_ is really not known.  Don't confuse "vetting" with a background investigation.  It is not like the State Department had Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) Agents out of a Regional Security Office (RSO) running around GAZA and performing a background investigation (BI).  We are talking about USAID grants to the "Ain Media Production Company."  AND, we are not talking about a hardcore HAMAS operative, but rather an informant that sells his imagery to HAMAS.  

*(• ∑ •)*

We simply do not know (yet) the character of the photojournalist Yaser Murtaja to make an informed descision.

We simply do not have the information necessary to determine the even which direction the shot came from, let alone who the assailant might have been.

It could be that the photojournalist Yaser Murtaja was squeaky clean and that the Israelis shot him for no reason.  BUT we simply do not hold the evidence to support that theory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## LA RAM FAN (May 21, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > The IDF is apparently investigating this
> ...



Yeah talk about the fox guarding the henhouse.Thats like trusting Bill "I NEVER HAD SEX WITH THIS WOMAN." Clinton  to tell the truth if you asked him if he slept with any women recently.


----------



## Coyote (May 21, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestinians.
> ※→  Coyote, et al,
> 
> Well, I think we might have to agree to disagree; ⇒ not on whether or not the Israelis did - or - did not shoot the Palestinian Journalist → but RATHER on ⇒ whether or not there is sufficient open source information for us to make a knowledgeable allegation.
> ...


Good points Rocco. But let add one more.  People sure are quick to condemn Murtaja with an equal lack of evidence arent they?


----------



## Hollie (May 21, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Yeah, talk about you being ignorant of the facts.

Here's your homework assignment. Do a search with the term:

"israeli soldier found guilty".

Report back to us what you find.


----------



## Shusha (May 21, 2018)

Coyote said:


> This is where I get extremely frustrated.  Where as the pro-Palestinian side can’t admit that Israel has a right to defend its border or even that there were armed people involved, the pro-Israeli’s can’t admit that Israel does and has killed innocent people and might have used excessive lethal force



I think Team Israel does acknowledge that innocent people have been killed by Israel.  We frequently note the proportion of Hamas operatives (combatants) as compared to civilian deaths.  We don't deny that civilian deaths occur.  Our point is that the combatant to civilian ratio, even in an extraordinarily difficult situation such as this one, is better than any other military force on the planet.  There is no possible way to have a "perfect score" in a situation such as this one with the presence of so many civilians.  And civilians that are actively incited and encouraged (including through payment!) to act like combatants and stay in close proximity to combatants.  Its an incredibly difficult position for any moral military force to be in.  

The claim here, though, is that Israel _deliberately targeted a protected person with intent to kill him_.  That is an entirely different charge, and one that Team Israel requires very high standards of evidence.  For the very reason that Israel DOES appear to have high moral standards and is actively attempting not to kill civilians while still protecting not only their borders and the lives of Israelis, but also prevent the inevitably greater loss of Gazan life should a mass breach occur.  Deliberately targeting a protected person would be highly unusual, given the balance of Israel's actions.  That's why we want to see some evidence.  

While I agree with Rocco, that we simply do not have enough publicly available information to determine the facts of this death, I have my own guess on the matter.  

With respect to whether or not Israel has used excessive lethal force, its a fair question.  Frankly, I don't think anyone on Team Israel has really had a chance to respond to that. Largely because no one has asked us yet.  We are still trying to talk TP down from the "peaceful protest shooting babies occupiers can't defend themselves there is no border" arguments.  

But I'd love to engage with you and some others around what is legally and morally proportional force and what would be considered excessive.


----------



## member (May 21, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestinians.
> ※→  Coyote, et al,
> 
> Well, I think we might have to agree to disagree; ⇒ not on whether or not the Israelis did - or - did not shoot the Palestinian Journalist → but RATHER on ⇒ whether or not there is sufficient open source information for us to make a knowledgeable allegation.
> ...




*". . .I am sure that the police, intelligence, and security services are now (and have been since the beginning of the protest) combing through the imagery and acoustics with today's technology (as well as applying a whole host of other surveillance techniques) searching for associations, gaining new intelligence information and making connects. . ."*

 hm, too bad the same can't be said about....hamass and abbass and their government workers. [..the way they conduct business].  *"the imagery" - *how'bout...someday and   be hopeful


----------



## Humanity (May 23, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Have you been drinking water with fluoride Shusha?

I think you are losing the plot!

Team Israel denies and refutes anything that comes from the UN and you are now claiming that they make laws? How does that work?

You are the one commenting on laws, states etc... Why don't YOU show us where these laws are?

Geeze, you are losing it Shusha!


----------



## Humanity (May 23, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > It is OUTSTANDING how you zionists can jump from being the poor, defenseless, down trodden to having the absolute right to murder, indiscriminately, with impunity...
> ...



Just a quick question for you Shusha...

In the recent border troubles, how many Israelis were killed by "lethal force" used by Gazans?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (May 23, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...




Quick answer; Stop trying to tear down the border fence, throwing Rocks,  Malatov Cocktails, and other Home Made Weapons. Too complicated for you? Of course it is


----------



## Shusha (May 23, 2018)

Humanity said:


> In the recent border troubles, how many Israelis were killed by "lethal force" used by Gazans?



Its the wrong question.  One uses self-defense at the threat of lethal force.  Israel is not obligated to actively allow Gazans to kill Israelis before acting against lethal force.


----------



## Shusha (May 23, 2018)

Seriously.  I teach self-defense.  When someone comes at you with a knife, you don't wait til he kills you with it before you defend yourself.


----------



## Humanity (May 23, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Wow Shusha, you have changed!

Shame you did answer the question though... Have another go Shusha...

Too complicated for you? Yes, of course it is!

How dare anyone question the actions of your beloved Israel.


----------



## Humanity (May 23, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > In the recent border troubles, how many Israelis were killed by "lethal force" used by Gazans?
> ...



Oh really?

You mentioned "lethal force" Shusha...

So I asked the RIGHT question!

Would you like to answer it? You alter ego managed to deflect and not answer the question too!


----------



## Humanity (May 23, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Seriously.  I teach self-defense.  When someone comes at you with a knife, you don't wait til he kills you with it before you defend yourself.



You also don't go looking for potential knife killers BEFORE they attack you do you? Maybe you do?


----------



## Shusha (May 23, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Dude!  Slow your roll.

When the threat of lethal force is apparent you have the right to defend yourself from it.  You don't have to wait til you die just to check and make sure that the guy with the knife REALLY intended to kill you.  

You are acting as though Israel is somehow obligated to allow her citizens to die before she responds to the threat of lethal force.  Do you not hear how ridiculous that is?


----------



## Shusha (May 23, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously.  I teach self-defense.  When someone comes at you with a knife, you don't wait til he kills you with it before you defend yourself.
> ...



Actually, in personal self-defense you absolutely do!  Because the knife you don't see is the one that is most likely to kill you.  Part of defense against knife attacks is knowing there is a knife present before one sticks you.


----------



## Shusha (May 23, 2018)

Humanity

What is your POINT here?  Are you trying to claim that there was no use of lethal force and it was a "peaceful protest" by only innocent civilians?


----------



## Hollie (May 23, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously.  I teach self-defense.  When someone comes at you with a knife, you don't wait til he kills you with it before you defend yourself.
> ...



Your apologetics for Islamic terrorists is really rather ugly. 

But yes, going around looking for potential Islamic terrorist knife killers, suicide bombers, rental truck applicants, etc., is an effective tool to prevent gee-had attacks. You may have read that not just Israel but the entire western world has found a need to protect themselves from the very  Islamic terrorists you defend.


----------



## Shusha (May 23, 2018)

Hollie said:


> But yes, going around looking for potential Islamic terrorist knife killers, suicide bombers, rental truck applicants, etc., is an effective tool to prevent gee-had attacks. You may have read that not just Israel but the entire western world has found a need to protect themselves from the very  Islamic terrorists you defend.



What?!  Security checks?  The HORROR!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 23, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



*In the recent border troubles, how many Israelis were killed by "lethal force" used by Gazans? *

What is the proper number? You know, the number that will make you happy?


----------



## Hollie (May 23, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > But yes, going around looking for potential Islamic terrorist knife killers, suicide bombers, rental truck applicants, etc., is an effective tool to prevent gee-had attacks. You may have read that not just Israel but the entire western world has found a need to protect themselves from the very  Islamic terrorists you defend.
> ...



Well, hell. At the very least I'm glad we have screening at airlines. With all those cells of heavily armed, radical Lutherans posing such a threat.....


----------



## Shusha (May 23, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...




Now, now.  Airline security checks are immoral.  Unless somebody has died from hijackings or plane bombings.  Oh. Wait.  Never mind.


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



So, basically, you won't answer a simple question...

What a grown up zionist you are!


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Actually, in personal self-defense you absolutely do! Because the knife you don't see is the one that is most likely to kill you. Part of defense against knife attacks is knowing there is a knife present before one sticks you.



That, Shusha, is hilarious!

So you go scouring the streets looking for someone with a knife so that you can practice your self defense!

Classic!


----------



## Linkiloo (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, in personal self-defense you absolutely do! Because the knife you don't see is the one that is most likely to kill you. Part of defense against knife attacks is knowing there is a knife present before one sticks you.
> ...


You don't understand the logical argument of a threat being deflected as being the concept of self-defence? I don't understand your argument at all. Can a person ever defend themselves in your understanding?


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Linkiloo said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Oh dear....

Do YOU want to take a shot at answering the question?


----------



## rylah (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, in personal self-defense you absolutely do! Because the knife you don't see is the one that is most likely to kill you. Part of defense against knife attacks is knowing there is a knife present before one sticks you.
> ...



During intifada this is exactly what is happening.
In many cases people from over the street are quicker to spot a knife than a man who's beck is the target of the attack.

I remember last year, during a wave of knife attacks and car ramming, I used to look very careful at people who walk with their hands in the pockets.

Another guy saved the lives of many when he spotted a terrorist with a knife approaching people in the dark on the beach - he pulled a guitar and chased the animal, and neutralized him by smacking him in the head.

Was gifted a new guitar though


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

rylah said:


> During intifada this is exactly what is happening.



Really? Well, I didn't know that...

So, Shusha went out scouring the streets during intifada using her self defense skills to disarm people?

Wow, just wow!


----------



## Shusha (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, in personal self-defense you absolutely do! Because the knife you don't see is the one that is most likely to kill you. Part of defense against knife attacks is knowing there is a knife present before one sticks you.
> ...



Your argument is just getting more and more ridiculous.  You are equating a massive riot of tens of thousands of people with thousands approaching the fence in a mix of militant operatives and civilians incited to be human shields.  Scouring the crowd for weapons and threats is EXACTLY what Israel is doing.  Entirely successfully.  It is eliminating those threats because they are threats.  The primary purpose of those actions are to eliminate the threats and prevent them from crossing into Israel to harm Israelis.  The secondary purpose is to avoid a massive breach of tens of thousands over the fence which would result in a much more difficult defense situation and a much larger number of Gazan dead.  It is a perfectly reasonable and effective military strategy.  It is also a moral military strategy because those being deliberately killed are militant operatives who pose a threat.  (No, its not perfect system wherein no civilians have been killed.  But it is an extraordinarily accurate given the circumstances of military operatives being disguised as and embedded with crowds of innocent people).

You are trying to make an argument, ridiculously, that proportionality is a tit-for-tat death-for-death.  If one Israeli dies, then somehow it is "permissible" for Israel to "defend" itself by killing one Gazan.  Or, you are trying to make the equally ridiculous argument that there is no threat posed by those militants taking part in the riot using the cover of human shields.  Neither argument is a good one.


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Strange that, as I am not having an argument with anyone... Your choice of ignorance over honesty is ridiculous Shusha!

Simply asked a question that neither you nor any of your Team Israel comrades wants to answer. 

It's ok, let me help you..

With the use of "lethal force", as you stated, by the Palestinians, there were no Israeli casualties, aside from, as was reported, a single IDF member was "slightly injured" by a stone.

So, the answer is ZERO!

There, you see, it's not so difficult. Even zionists can count to ZERO I am sure!


----------



## Shusha (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> So, the answer is ZERO!
> 
> There, you see, it's not so difficult. Even zionists can count to ZERO I am sure!



We are all aware of the that fact.  It was a rhetorical question intended to imply that the Gazan militants posed no threat.  As such, it is disingenuous of you to continue to focus on the number rather than responding to the implication.

The militants absolutely posed a threat.  And had Israel acted in other ways, those threats may have been realized.


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > So, the answer is ZERO!
> ...



If you are aware of the fact then why not answer the question?

Let me give you another clue...

It does not look good for Israel murdering over 60 people in cold blood, according to Team Israel with the vicitims using "letahl force" when there are actually ZERO Israeli fatalities!

zionists and honesty have never gone hand in hand and the same trait continues to this day!


----------



## Hollie (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



"murdering over 60 people in cold blood"

Does team Islamic terrorism agree on these silly slogans at cheerleader practice?


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Oh look, another honest(?) zionist who wouldn't answer the question!

I guess your zionut-r-us tom tom drums spread the word to not to own up to anything that might just make Israel look like the murdering state they are!


----------



## Hollie (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



You might want to educate yourself  regarding what israeli law defines as "murder". I know the answer to that. You don't. 

While it may be different under your sharia law, israeli soldiers defending their homeland from attackers is not "murder". I think you would find it difficult to identify _any_ sovereign nation that would prosecute its military force for defending its sovereignty from attacks.


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Hollie said:


> israeli law



You will have to forgive the laughter in relation to that classic comment...

"Israeli law" is a joke... Rather like that orange idiot in the White House!

I prefer international law that most modern, first world countries, abide by...

When Israel chooses to become a first world country then there may be some progress in the ME.


----------



## Shusha (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> If you are aware of the fact then why not answer the question?
> 
> Let me give you another clue...
> 
> ...



Ya, see, if you are trying to convince me that you are a fair and reasonable and objective observer who supports Israel's rights to sovereignty and self-determination -- you are doing a piss-poor job of it.  Your posts are no different than Tinmore's, Billo's and a dozen other anti-Israel posters.  

_A rhetorical question is a question that you ask without expecting an answer. The question might be one that does not have an answer. *It might also be one that has an obvious answer but you have asked the question* *to make a point*, to persuade or for literary effect. _

And lookie here, here's the point you were making with your rhetorical question!  You are claiming that the threat of lethal force does not exist unless deaths are permitted to occur.  In other words, even though Israel can prevent deaths of its citizens and soldiers it MUST not do so even if the force threatened is lethal.  You are suggesting that, in order to defend itself, Israel MUST PERMIT its citizens to die, even when they could prevent such deaths.  

That is an absolutely OUTRAGEOUS statement.


----------



## Hollie (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > israeli law
> ...


You seem to be in denial.

Israel has a codified system of laws. That system of laws is not markedly different from western notions of crime and punishment.


----------



## Shusha (May 24, 2018)

That outrageous statement is at the heart of the Gaza conflict, though.  

TP's position is that if Gaza had access to all the weapons they could get their hands on, THEN they would start building a peaceful, prosperous and economically viable nation.

TI's position is that if Gaza had access to all the weapons they could get their hands on, they would make good on their promises to rip the hearts out of Israelis, murder all the Jews and make sure no filthy feet ever set foot in Jerusalem, Israel, Judea and Samaria again.  See, when Jews hear people say that they are coming to kill them -- we believe them.


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Ya, see, if you are trying to convince me that you are a fair and reasonable and objective observer who supports Israel's rights to sovereignty and self-determination -- you are doing a piss-poor job of it.



Ya see... If you are trying to convince me that you are one of the more balanced zionuts, you have failed!

You are nothing more than a zionut-job who would happily defend ANY actions that Israel should take, no matter how much it goes against modernity!

Israel crosses the line and you defend. Israel crosses the line and you choose to state that the UN is a law making entity yet also state that the UN is a pointless, anti-semite organisation...

You are no better than any other zionut who believe that Israel can do no wrong...

You think I try and convince you of something? Why would I?

I prefer to have a rather more balanced outlook on the world than you zionuts!


----------



## Humanity (May 24, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



So, Israel making new laws to justify it's occupation of territory is 'normal'?

Think you might find that 'law' is not recognised by the civilised Western world!

Go figure!


----------



## Shusha (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> When Israel chooses to become a first world country then there may be some progress in the ME.



A relatively good measure would be the Human Development Index.  Israel ranks 19 in the world.  That is ahead of France, Finland, Italy, Spain, Greece, and any of its Arab neighbors.


----------



## Shusha (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, see, if you are trying to convince me that you are a fair and reasonable and objective observer who supports Israel's rights to sovereignty and self-determination -- you are doing a piss-poor job of it.
> ...



So your balanced, objective outlook is that a nation state defending its borders must not use lethal force in response to lethal force used against it?!  Until at least a certain number of their own citizens die first, even if they could have prevented those deaths?  Have you got a link to that in international law?


----------



## Hollie (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



I understand you hope to sidestep your earlier claims, so I was feeling benevolent and did your homework for you.

Legal Research Guide: Israel | Law Library of Congress


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 24, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Israel should have shot more Hamas terrorists.


----------



## admonit (May 25, 2018)

Gaza ministry removes baby from list of people killed by Israeli army


----------



## Linkiloo (May 28, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, see, if you are trying to convince me that you are a fair and reasonable and objective observer who supports Israel's rights to sovereignty and self-determination -- you are doing a piss-poor job of it.
> ...


What legal system do you consider more legitimate than Israels?


----------



## Humanity (May 28, 2018)

Linkiloo said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Most of the civilised world!


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (May 28, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...




The thing about you, Humanity, is that you are two-faced.  All this time, you've tried to portray yourself as an objective, neutral party to this conflict.  But your true colors have finally begun to show.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 28, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Well, that leaves out the entire Muslim world......


----------



## member (May 28, 2018)

Linkiloo said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



*"What legal system do you consider more legitimate than Israels?"*

you mean over there in "the middle east?" 














 ..is someone making a list?

we can shorten it, you can cross off:

syria
yemen
afghanistan
iran
iraq



algeria
libya
pakistan
it's over for egypt&turkey
qatar
saudi arabia [they have a long-list of no-no's]
lebanon
....don't feel left out [russia]


----------



## Linkiloo (May 29, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


Please be more specific.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (May 30, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



As always the Isreal worshippers have failed miserably in their pathetic attempts to disprove the murderous actions of Israel.how much do your handlers pay you all to embarrass yourselves? lol


----------



## Humanity (Jun 1, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Linkiloo said:
> ...



Oh no, you will be calling me an anti-semite next because I won't suck Nutandyahoos cock like you!

Two faced? No... It's called having a balanced opinion.

You see, to clarify AGAIN...

Israel exists, let it exist.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation needs to leave.

But, Israel needs to cut the bullshit and stop playing the eternal victim... It's really wearing real thin!

Your "true colours", like all zionuts, are Israel above all else, including common sense


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Throw rocks at soldiers- get shot.
> 
> Support people throwing rocks at soldiers- get shot.
> 
> Investigation done.


Can you throw a rock the length of a football field?  How about 900 feet?  Can you throw a rock that far?  You really think you should be shot for trying?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

WillowTree said:


> So Israel is not allowed to fight back against Hamas? Tell me why!


An occupational force cannot claim self defense.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > So Israel is not allowed to fight back against Hamas? Tell me why!
> ...



That’s a slogan that the Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers share among themselves. When your Islamic terrorist heroes were attempting to breach the Israeli border, the IDF defended the border from the Islamist attackers. 

Oh, and Gaza’istan is not occupied, except by Islamic terrorists. 

Maybe you want to email the UN?


----------



## Anathema (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Can you throw a rock the length of a football field?  How about 900 feet?  Can you throw a rock that far?  You really think you should be shot for trying?



Distance is irrelevant. Throw a rock at me from 20 feet away you're gonna get shot. 

The Pali's need to accept their place and move on, or find done meaningful way to bri g zisrael to the table. Getting their asses smoked for throwing rocks isn't gonna do it.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > So Israel is not allowed to fight back against Hamas? Tell me why!
> ...



An "occupational force" is not legally or morally permitted to defend its own citizens?  Ridiculous.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Distance is irrelevant. Throw a rock at me from 20 feet away you're gonna get shot.
> 
> The Pali's need to accept their place and move on, or find done meaningful way to bri g zisrael to the table. Getting their asses smoked for throwing rocks isn't gonna do it.


You can only use deadly force if your life is threatened.  Is your life threatened by someone throwing a rock 300 feet away?  Throwing a rock is not a capital crime.  If you don't see how wrong it is to shoot someone for throwing a rock, then you don't know the basic difference between right and wrong.

Israel is wrong.  And they should be investigated for their crimes.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Shusha said:


> An "occupational force" is not legally or morally permitted to defend its own citizens?  Ridiculous.


Not when you are initiating the violence.  You are putting your citizens in harms way.


----------



## member (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > An "occupational force" is not legally or morally permitted to defend its own citizens?  Ridiculous.
> ...






 *"Not when you are initiating the violence"*








lies.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> You can only use deadly force if your life is threatened.



That is interesting.  Things you CAN'T use deadly force for:  

blockades
"occupation"
territory disputes
border disputes
there was a "Nakba"
we don't have a State
Jews have hearts in their chests


----------



## Andylusion (Jun 1, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



On a personal note, I've seen the videos.  There is no need for an investigation.  Animals attempting to kill people, were shot.  This is the very definition of "defending your country".

As for the US itself.... good.   They stood up for what was right, against what is evil.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Not when you are initiating the violence.  You are putting your citizens in harms way.



So, if you put your citizens in harm's way, its your fault?  No WAY!


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Shusha said:


> That is interesting.  Things you CAN'T use deadly force for:
> 
> blockades
> "occupation"
> ...


I find it interesting on the one hand, you are outraged over 26 deaths in 17 years, and on the other hand, you're perfectly okay with 65 deaths in the last 4 weeks.

Your hypocrisy speaks volumes.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Shusha said:


> So, if you put your citizens in harm's way, its your fault?  No WAY!


If you started the conflict, of coarse it is.

It's our fault for Vietnam.  The Gulf of Tonkin incident was made up bullshit.  No different than your throwing rock threat.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > That is interesting.  Things you CAN'T use deadly force for:
> ...



What is the correct ratio of deaths in terms of Islamic terrorist attacks vs. Israeli retaliation? 

Shirley, you have a number for that.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > So, if you put your citizens in harm's way, its your fault?  No WAY!
> ...



Ah. So how do you figure out who 'started' a conflict?  Because it seems to me that amassing tens of thousands at a border with intent to cross it and rip hearts out is starting something


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Ah. So how do you figure out who 'started' a conflict?  Because it seems to me that amassing tens of thousands at a border with intent to cross it and rip hearts out is starting something


You started the occupation in '67 and the blockade in 2006.  

You started it!


----------



## Anathema (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> You can only use deadly force if your life is threatened.  Is your life threatened by someone throwing a rock 300 feet away?  Throwing a rock is not a capital crime.  If you don't see how wrong it is to shoot someone for throwing a rock, then you don't know the basic difference between right and wrong.



Obviously you and I live by different ROEs. You throw an egg st mu car while I'm going down the street, you stand a better than average chance of getting lit up like the 4th of July. Throw a rock and that chance becomes a certainty. Regardless of distance. 



Billo_Really said:


> Israel is wrong.  And they should be investigated for their crimes.



Israel couldn't be more correct and wed ve wise to take their lessons to heart on both our borders.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > That is interesting.  Things you CAN'T use deadly force for:
> ...



It's not about the numbers.

I teach self defense to women. If every woman I teach who is attacked with lethal force happened to kill her attacker I would be COMPLETELY okay with that.

No innocent dead. Lots of dead attackers. Fine with me. 

I am outraged when innocents are killed and satisfied when murderous attackers are killed. 

It's the polar opposite of you. You are perfectly fine with 26 dead Innocent Jews but rage and fuss and whine when terrorists meet their end. 


The hypocrisy is when you apply one set of rules to one people (you can only apply lethal force when your own life is threatened) and an entirely different set of rules to another people (you have the right to 'resist' using lethal force even if your life is not threatened).


----------



## frigidweirdo (Jun 1, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> 
> US Praises Israel, Blocks UN Call for Investigation Into the Killing of 61 Palestinians



The UN will always struggle to be worthy when the largest and most powerful nations have permanent veto power. 

It's like having a mafia which controls the judges.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Ah. So how do you figure out who 'started' a conflict?  Because it seems to me that amassing tens of thousands at a border with intent to cross it and rip hearts out is starting something
> ...



If memory serves, you started a war in 1967. 2006 was the beginning of a continuous salvo of rocket and mortar attacks that would reach more than 10,000 instances. 

How many do-overs are Islamic terrorists entitled to?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Obviously you and I live by different ROEs. You throw an egg st mu car while I'm going down the street, you stand a better than average chance of getting lit up like the 4th of July. Throw a rock and that chance becomes a certainty. Regardless of distance.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel couldn't be more correct and wed ve wise to take their lessons to heart on both our borders.


You think it is okay to murder anyone you don't like?


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Ah. So how do you figure out who 'started' a conflict?  Because it seems to me that amassing tens of thousands at a border with intent to cross it and rip hearts out is starting something
> ...



So did the conflict start in 1967 or in 2006?

When did the conflict start?  Pick your date. Pick the event which 'started' the conflict. Remembering that your claim is that those who 'start' the conflict have no right to defend themselves.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Shusha said:


> It's not about the numbers.
> 
> I teach self defense to women. If every woman I teach who is attacked with lethal force happened to kill her attacker I would be COMPLETELY okay with that.
> 
> ...


You are not outraged when innocents are killed!  The other day, you defended shooting a can of tear gas at an 8 month old baby.  Every day you defend the murder of 65 Palestinians.  Not only are you a hypocrite, but you are a liar as well.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 1, 2018)

Shusha said:


> So did the conflict start in 1967 or in 2006?
> 
> When did the conflict start?  Pick your date. Pick the event which 'started' the conflict. Remembering that your claim is that those who 'start' the conflict have no right to defend themselves.


I think I was pretty clear.  The occupation started in '67 and the blockade began in 2006.  In both times, you are at fault, because those were YOUR decisions.

Now, don't take what I said about the right to defend yourselves out of context.  Everyone has a right to defend themselves, however, what I said in regards to the occupation, blockade and Palestinian resistance, is that you cannot claim self defense when you respond.  As long as you continue the occupation and blockade, it is not self defense, it is aggression.

End the occupation and blockade, then, and only then, will it become self defense if you are attacked.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It's not about the numbers.
> ...



Hard eyeroll. 

No one shot a can of tear gas at an eight month old baby as a deliberate act. There was a violent riot where non-lethal riot suppression measures were being taken. Everyone was aware of that fact. Someone brought a baby to a violent riot. The baby had an existing heart condition. The baby died.  It has nothing at all to do with Israel. 

I defend the defense of Israel and her citizens against violent attacks. Absolutely justifiable. 

If you want to argue that there was absolutely NO threat to Israel and it was a perfectly peaceful protest, I have only to provide a few instances of lethal, violent action to prove you wrong. And there are PLENTY of those to go around.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It's not about the numbers.
> ...



When a nominee for “Islamic Mother of the Year” takes an 8 month old infant with a heart condition to an Islamic terrorist initiated war zone, you need to be a bit more discriminating with your “hypocrite” and “liar” slogans.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > So did the conflict start in 1967 or in 2006?
> ...



Occupation against Gaza ended in 2005.

The blockade which occurred after that time is a direct response to continued aggression against Israel. Stop the aggression and there is no need for a blockade. 

The risk to Israel for ending the blockade is the deaths of thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of citizens and an end to Jewish sovereignty and safety. 

The risk to Gaza of ending the aggression against Israel is nothing. And actually the potential is enormous.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> You think it is okay to murder anyone you don't like?



I believe that anyone stupid enough to threaten me, my family or my property is going to regret that mistake permanently. 

If I were to murder everyone I don't like there'd be less people left on Earth than Noah supposedly brought onto his Ark.


----------



## fncceo (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> You are not outraged when innocents are killed!



Are you?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 1, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > You are not outraged when innocents are killed!
> ...



He doesn’t care as long as they are Israelis


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 1, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


1917


----------



## Coyote (Jun 1, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



They weren't all Islamic terrorists.  I hate to let you down here but not all Muslims and not all Palestinians are terrorists.


----------



## fncceo (Jun 1, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



70 CE


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 1, 2018)

fncceo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


If the Arab, Muslims didn't get there until later it was not their fault.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 1, 2018)

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



It may hurt your feelings to realize that I never claimed all Moslems or all Arabs-Moslems are terrorists.

That does nothing to minimize the threat that Islamic terrorists pose to the West.


----------



## member (Jun 1, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Distance is irrelevant. Throw a rock at me from 20 feet away you're gonna get shot.
> ...



_*". . .Throwing a rock is not a capital crime. If you don't see how wrong it is to shoot someone for throwing a rock, then you don't know the basic difference between right and wrong. . ."*_

omg.




 *". . .you don't know the basic difference between right and wrong..."*

listen to you try to justify terrorists' actions [rocket launching, *suicide bombers,* underground smuggling tunnels, rubbing elbows with al qu and iran, brainswashing children into becoming terrorists, recruiting women as terrorists]...






*". . .you don't know the basic difference between right and wrong..."*



​


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Are you?


I'm outraged.................you provided pictures with no content.

Although, it is nice to see there is an apparent investigation going on.  There should be more of those.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

Anathema said:


> I believe that anyone stupid enough to threaten me, my family or my property is going to regret that mistake permanently.
> 
> If I were to murder everyone I don't like there'd be less people left on Earth than Noah supposedly brought onto his Ark.


I have a better metaphor.  

You build a fence on your neighbors front lawn that goes across his driveway and prevents him from leaving his house to go to work.  As a result, he is unable to take care of his family.  The only way he survives, is when people toss him food from the street.  And if that wasn't bad enough, every time he walks out on to his front lawn, you shoot at him.  

So he finally has enough of you and your fence and asks you to remove it.  You respond by killing his brother.  He asks you again.  You respond by killing his daughter.  He yells at you to get that fence off his property.  You respond by killing his wife.  He then throws a rock at you.  You respond by killing him.

Should you be investigated for vandalism?  Or murder?  Or should local authorities forget the whole incident ever took place?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Occupation against Gaza ended in 2005.
> 
> The blockade which occurred after that time is a direct response to continued aggression against Israel. Stop the aggression and there is no need for a blockade.
> 
> ...


If the occupation ended, why can't Gazans fish and farm without getting shot at? If the occupation ended, why can't Gazans export their products to market?  If the occupation ended, why do they get shot at while baking bread?  While playing soccer?  If the occupation ended, why can't they have a picnic without you shooting tear gas at their babies?

You murder 61 of them in cold blood and have the nerve to say there is no occupation?  You do all that and  feel you should not be investigated for war crimes?  You are really out there!

Do you think (or do you care) how crazy you sound, by going from 26 deaths in 17 years, to hundreds of thousands of deaths, if the blockade is lifted?

Listen very carefully, you are responsible for the things you do.  There will be an investigation.  And you will be held accountable for all of this shit.  Just like Nuremberg!


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Hard eyeroll.
> 
> No one shot a can of tear gas at an eight month old baby as a deliberate act. There was a violent riot where non-lethal riot suppression measures were being taken. Everyone was aware of that fact. Someone brought a baby to a violent riot. The baby had an existing heart condition. The baby died.  It has nothing at all to do with Israel.
> 
> ...


A threat from 300 meters?

Another eye roll.


----------



## fncceo (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Occupation against Gaza ended in 2005.
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

fncceo said:


>


There is something wrong with looking at your dumb bird while watching The Full Monty at the same time.


----------



## admonit (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Occupation against Gaza ended in 2005.
> ...


Aren't you yet tired of your own bullshit, *Billo*?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Hard eyeroll.
> ...



You need to get past your childish banter. The Islamic terrorists at the Tire Burning Riot publicity stunt were attempting to breach a security fence protecting Israeli citizens. Had they done that, they were an immediate threat to Israeli citizens. 

Maybe if you paid attention?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

member said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Anathema said:
> ...


He knows it. He just has a Double Standard


----------



## Shusha (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Occupation against Gaza ended in 2005.
> ...



See, here's the thing. You can't make a real argument here. You have to exaggerate and lie and deny reality and appeal to emotion in order to make your case sound in any way reasonable. 

No Gazan is being shot for baking bread or fishing or playing soccer or having a picnic. They are being shot when they threaten Israel by smiuggling weapons or attacking her border.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Hard eyeroll.
> ...



How close do you think you would let a guy with a bomb get to your family while screaming that he was going to rip your child's heart out?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Don’t confuse him with the facts. According to him it was a “ Peaceful Protest”


----------



## Anathema (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> I have a better metaphor.
> 
> You build a fence on your neighbors front lawn that goes across his driveway and prevents him from leaving his house to go to work.  As a result, he is unable to take care of his family.  The only way he survives, is when people toss him food from the street.  And if that wasn't bad enough, every time he walks out on to his front lawn, you shoot at him.
> 
> ...



Your metaphor starts far too late in the story, ignoring why I lock the asshole up in his own home. Ir ignores the fact that he, and his buddies have attempted to run me out of the neighborhood on multiple occasions. In fact, I'd have been more than within my natural rights to have shot the guy dead on multiple occasions.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

admonit said:


> Aren't you yet tired of your own bullshit, *Billo*?


What bullshit?  You don't think people should be held accountable for their own actions?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> He knows it. He just has a Double Standard


Yes, why don't you tell us about a double standard.  Why don't you tell us why you think it is okay for Israel to murder 61 people, but it's not okay to investigate those murders by an independent organization?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

Shusha said:


> See, here's the thing. You can't make a real argument here. You have to exaggerate and lie and deny reality and appeal to emotion in order to make your case sound in any way reasonable.
> 
> No Gazan is being shot for baking bread or fishing or playing soccer or having a picnic. They are being shot when they threaten Israel by smiuggling weapons or attacking her border.


Where's the attack?






Nobody is smuggling shit, they're just fishing and you shot at them!



You won't even let them seek medical attention somewhere else.

_For a first time since 1967, two wooden boats set off from Gaza heading to Cyprus on Tuesday, charting their course in protest of Israel’s decade long siege.

*Five hours after leaving the dock, the Israeli Navy intercepted the boats arresting 17 passengers while they were 9 nautical miles off the shores of Gaza*, according to the International Committee to Break the Siege on Gaza.  Since Israel began its blockade of Gaza in 2007, Palestinian boats have not been allowed past 12 nautical miles from the shore.

_​How is seeking medical treatment an attack on Israel?

_*A total of 54 Palestinians in Gaza died awaiting exit permits in 2017 from the Israeli authorities*, according World Health Organization, in what rights activists call an overly bureaucratic system that deprives Palestinians of their right to healthcare._​
You are a fucking liar!

_*Palestinians are not crossing the armistice line and killing Israelis living right across the fence once they are “unleashed.”* They are not animals, neither are they cannibals! Palestinians are the not encaged blood-thirsty animals that will prey the first thing they witness once they are out. Yes, they are trying to cross the fence into 1948 areas, but this is about realizing their right of return to the land many of them were forced to leave. Seventy percent of Palestinians in Gaza are refugees from cities and towns in Israel. These people are trying to go home. *They are trying to get to the houses they still have keys and official documents for! They are not embarking on a secret murderous mission.*_​
In order for you to push your bullshit argument, you have to dehumanize Palestinians, lie about their actions, poison my government with your bullshit AIPAC and violate IHL.  Not only should the UN investigate your country, they should investigate every one of you enablers of genocide.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

Shusha said:


> How close do you think you would let a guy with a bomb get to your family while screaming that he was going to rip your child's heart out?


You keep repeating the same bullshit.  Palestinian bombs do not have a kill zone that large.  Especially one that is "hand held".  Fuck, the shit you make up, because you're too pussy to tell that fucked up government of yours, to knock this shit off!


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Don’t confuse him with the facts. According to him it was a “ Peaceful Protest”


According to the IDF, you're the ones who broke the peace.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Your metaphor starts far too late in the story, ignoring why I lock the asshole up in his own home. Ir ignores the fact that he, and his buddies have attempted to run me out of the neighborhood on multiple occasions. In fact, I'd have been more than within my natural rights to have shot the guy dead on multiple occasions.


Okay, then lets start at the beginning.  The house you're living in was owned by one of his neighbors until you walked up with a gun and told the guy to leave because God told you that was your house now.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > See, here's the thing. You can't make a real argument here. You have to exaggerate and lie and deny reality and appeal to emotion in order to make your case sound in any way reasonable.
> ...



The problem you have with these unattributed photos and edited YouTube videos is that they are absent any authentication and prepared with a specific agenda to press.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

How does a medic, administering care to the wounded, deserve to be shot in the back by a Israeli sniper?

_According to Gaza’s Health Ministry Dr. Asraf al-Qedra, *Israeli snipers targeted five medical personnel treating wounded Gazans*.

*Najjar wore a clearly-marked medic vest*, lethally shot for doing her job, treating and helping to evacuate wounded Gazans to a field clinic – standing well inside Israel’s border with Gaza, threatening no one.

*She was shot in the back*, the bullet (reportedly an exploding dum dum one) shattered her heart, likely killing her instantly, other medics with her wounded.
_​How is that a threat to Israel?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > He knows it. He just has a Double Standard
> ...




Tell us why you think it’s O.K. To break into the “ 67 Borders”, throw Malatov Cocktails, Rocks, Bow and Arrows, other Home Made Weapons and have Israel just stand by and do nothing?
 Please tell us who this independent organization” is. Is this “ organization” going to be as “ independent” as the one who refused to do anything about blocking Israel’s access to the Straits of Tiran and deliberately leaving the area? More recently , is this “ organization” going to be as “ independent” as the U.N.who refused to condemn the Palestinian Violence that initiated the outcome?  FUCK YOU


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> How does a medic, administering care to the wounded, deserve to be shot in the back by a Israeli sniper?
> 
> _According to Gaza’s Health Ministry Dr. Asraf al-Qedra, *Israeli snipers targeted five medical personnel treating wounded Gazans*.
> 
> ...



How do you know she was gloriously martyred by an Israeli sniper?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Tell us why you think it’s O.K. To break into the “ 67 Borders”, throw Malatov Cocktails, Rocks, Bow and Arrows, other Home Made Weapons and have Israel just stand by and do nothing?
> Please tell us who this independent organization” is. Is this “ organization” going to be as “ independent” as the one who refused to do anything about blocking Israel’s access to the Straits of Tiran and deliberately leaving the area? More recently , is this “ organization” going to be as “ independent” as the U.N.who refused to condemn the Palestinian Violence that initiated the outcome?  FUCK YOU


Israel doesn't have defined borders, so you can't complain about crossing them, you fucking asshole!

Why don't you tell us why the Palestinians don't deserve freedom?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > How does a medic, administering care to the wounded, deserve to be shot in the back by a Israeli sniper?
> ...



Maybe she shouldn’t have been shot in the back. Where would he have preferred she get shot?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Maybe she shouldn’t have been shot in the back. Where would he have preferred she get shot?


Israeli barbarism at its best.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Tell us why you think it’s O.K. To break into the “ 67 Borders”, throw Malatov Cocktails, Rocks, Bow and Arrows, other Home Made Weapons and have Israel just stand by and do nothing?
> ...



If Israel has no defined borders, who was defending those borders, (which you say don’t exist), from the Islamist hordes hoping to invade Israel?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Tell us why you think it’s O.K. To break into the “ 67 Borders”, throw Malatov Cocktails, Rocks, Bow and Arrows, other Home Made Weapons and have Israel just stand by and do nothing?
> ...



 Thank you for confirming the 67 Borders are not recognized you ASSHOLE! They have no right to enter those “ borders” anymore then Israeli settlers now have the right to enter Gaza .


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe she shouldn’t have been shot in the back. Where would he have preferred she get shot?
> ...



Unlike the Fogel Family who was murdeted in cold blood with their infant sun beheaded. Palestinian Mentality.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Thank you for confirming the 67 Borders are not recognized you ASSHOLE! They have no right to enter those “ borders” anymore then Israeli settlers now have the right to enter Gaza .


None of that gives you the right to shoot unarmed Palestinians.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 2, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Unlike the Fogel Family who was murdeted in cold blood with their infant sun beheaded. Palestinian Mentality.


You're a lot more inhuman than they are.  

BTW, the majority of Palestinians were appalled by the Fogel murders.  Whereas you celebrate every time a Palestinian is killed in cold blood.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for confirming the 67 Borders are not recognized you ASSHOLE! They have no right to enter those “ borders” anymore then Israeli settlers now have the right to enter Gaza .
> ...



I actually agree with that !!!!   ! It does give Israel the right to shoot those who are trying to climb the fence despite warnings, throw Malatov Cocktails and other Home Made Weapons


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike the Fogel Family who was murdeted in cold blood with their infant sun beheaded. Palestinian Mentality.
> ...



Don’t see Israelis celebrating in the streets, handing out Candy and naming streets after killers the way the Palestinians do


----------



## fncceo (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for confirming the 67 Borders are not recognized you ASSHOLE! They have no right to enter those “ borders” anymore then Israeli settlers now have the right to enter Gaza .
> ...



I didn’t shoot anyone.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 2, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...


Maybe not, but you always cheer.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Tell us why you think it’s O.K. To break into the “ 67 Borders”, throw Malatov Cocktails, Rocks, Bow and Arrows, other Home Made Weapons and have Israel just stand by and do nothing?
> ...




the logic of these shiils is the palestines dont deserved freedom because they dont cowardly shoot unarmed women and children in the head all the time as the zionists they worship.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike the Fogel Family who was murdeted in cold blood with their infant sun beheaded. Palestinian Mentality.
> ...



How they are able to look at themselves in the mirror and sleep at night after celebrating everytime a palestine civillian is killed in cold blood shot from behind in cowardly fashion by Israel,makes someone like that inhuman indeed. guess theyhave sick logic being fans of a government that murders civilains everyday.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 2, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> How does a medic, administering care to the wounded, deserve to be shot in the back by a Israeli sniper?



Those who try to help my enemy are also my enemy. I live under the Red Flag. No quarter is asked and none will be offered.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



Yawn..,  Palestinians never have trouble sleeping. At least the Israelis don’t hand out Candy and name streets after them. “ Civilians” throw Rocks, Malatov Cocktails and other Home Made weapons? In your twisted world they do


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 2, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...




Like  the Palestinians who actually celebrate, dance, hand out Candy and name streets  after those who killed Israelis.? Maybe Israel should do exactly that with the Palestinians.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> I actually agree with that !!!!   ! It does give Israel the right to shoot those who are trying to climb the fence despite warnings, throw Malatov Cocktails and other Home Made Weapons


You can only use deadly force when your life is being threatened.  The majority of people being shot, were no where near the fence.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Don’t see Israelis celebrating in the streets, handing out Candy and naming streets after killers the way the Palestinians do


What candy were they handing out?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

fncceo said:


> I didn’t shoot anyone.


It was the "figurative" you, not the "literal" you.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

LA RAM FAN said:


> the logic of these shiils is the palestines dont deserved freedom because they dont cowardly shoot unarmed women and children in the head all the time as the zionists they worship.


Their logic is Palestinians don't deserve freedom because they don't kiss enough Israeli ass.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Those who try to help my enemy are also my enemy. I live under the Red Flag. No quarter is asked and none will be offered.


So you consider people giving care to the wounded, your enemy?

You're pretty sick in the head!


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Yawn..,  Palestinians never have trouble sleeping. At least the Israelis don’t hand out Candy and name streets after them. “ Civilians” throw Rocks, Malatov Cocktails and other Home Made weapons? In your twisted world they do


And you shoot at them fishing.  You shoot at them farming.  You shoot at them baking bread.  You shoot at them playing soccer.  You shoot at them giving care to the wounded.  You shoot at them because you had a bad shit that morning.

You got a lot of blood on your hands.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Like  the Palestinians who actually celebrate, dance, hand out Candy and name streets  after those who killed Israelis.? Maybe Israel should do exactly that with the Palestinians.


How many times are you going to repeat the same post?


----------



## fncceo (Jun 3, 2018)

Having a real hard time giving a frak about the safety of these particular medics ...






That ain't exactly a Red Cross they're displaying.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Having a real hard time giving a frak about the safety of these particular medics ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a photo-shopped image from an Israeli blog site.


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Having a real hard time giving a frak about the safety of these particular medics ...
> ...



Of course and the suicidal maniacs who called to_ "murder Jews and go die together"_ were just taken out of Hitlers speech in Arabic, right?


You should ask P F Tinmore, he was duped by Hamas to post those as an example of how innocent those '_peaceful protests' are..._


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> Of course and the suicidal maniacs who called to_ "murder Jews and go die together"_ were just taken out of Hitlers speech in Arabic, right?
> 
> 
> You should ask P F Tinmore, he was duped by Hamas to post those as an example of how innocent those '_peaceful protests' are..._


Palestinians do not want to murder Jews, they just want to be free and live a normal life.


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Of course and the suicidal maniacs who called to_ "murder Jews and go die together"_ were just taken out of Hitlers speech in Arabic, right?
> ...



Yep marching with a swastika while shouting "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud!" really supports that notion .

I guess when Palestinian Arabs raped, murdered, looted and dispossessed Jews from their ancient holy cities before Zionism it was because they wanted to teach the Jews a new version of Kumbaya?


----------



## Humanity (Jun 3, 2018)

Shusha said:


> No Gazan is being shot for baking bread or *fishing*



You need to rethink the "fishing" statement there Shusha!

Oh and farming is also on the IDF list of 'terrorist' occupations too! And also, let's not forget 'journalism'!


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > No Gazan is being shot for baking bread or *fishing*
> ...



That's total bs, if that was the case Gazans wouldn't be able to export crops, and You wouldn't hear about anything going inside Gaza except from Israeli news.

For Gazans any Israeli civilian of any profession is a valid target,
but why should I confuse You with facts...


----------



## gipper (Jun 3, 2018)

Penelope said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...


So true...and it is both the D and R parties acting in unison, once again.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Of course and the suicidal maniacs who called to_ "murder Jews and go die together"_ were just taken out of Hitlers speech in Arabic, right?
> ...



As the spokesturban for Arabs-Moslems, you’re rather ineffective. 

Perhaps you could describe where ‘free” is an attribute that defines any of the Islamist totalitarian fear societies across the Islamist Middle East.

I believe the term “normal”, as it applies to Islamist totalitarian fear societies is defined somewhat differently for the majority of the planet not under the bootheel of Islamic fascism. 

I think that for most of the planet, women being allowed to drive a car or women _not_ forced into Shame Sacks is normal.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > No Gazan is being shot for baking bread or *fishing*
> ...



That flaming tirade makes you appear rather desperate and, well, silly.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Well, if ever anyone was spouting utter bullshit it's you!

With many cases of fishermen, farmers and, most recently, a journalist being on the IDF hit list it's hard for your precious Israeli news media to cover up anymore!

That is what you call facts... Not your fantasy BS!


----------



## Humanity (Jun 3, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Oh sweetie....

"flaming tirade"? 

There is no desperation in stating facts.... 

You should try it some time!


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> Yep marching with a swastika while shouting "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud!" really supports that notion .
> 
> I guess when Palestinian Arabs raped, murdered, looted and dispossessed Jews from their ancient holy cities before Zionism it was because they wanted to teach the Jews a new version of Kumbaya?


 Well they must not have been very good at it, because there was 10,000 Jews living in relative peace with their Arab neighbors at the time of the Zionist migration.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



I’ll first give you a chance to try offering some facts. Your flaming tirades do tend to make you appear rather silly so here’s your chance t9 offer a coherent argument. 

Please identify the source of your “facts” to support your nonsense claims: “and farming is also on the IDF list of 'terrorist' occupations too! And also, let's not forget 'journalism'!”


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Yep marching with a swastika while shouting "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud!" really supports that notion .
> ...


*Peace?!* How about You give me a 3rd of Your income and Your daughter so that I don't murder the rest of Your family, and we'll call that _'relative peace'_...deal?

*Didn't succeed?!*
Arabs attempted to ethnically cleanse Jews from virtually every country in the middle east,
the ONLY place they failed is Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> *Peace?!* How about You give me a 3rd of Your income and Your daughter so that I don't murder the rest of Your family, and we'll call that _'relative peace'_...deal?
> 
> *Didn't succeed?!*
> Arabs attempted to ethnically cleanse Jews from virtually every country in the middle east,
> the ONLY place they failed is Israel.


More lies from the liar.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 3, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



You call them "flaming tirades" I call them facts! I guess you don't like facts, especially when it highlights the Israeli terror campaign.

But hey, not my issue.

Not sure I need to identify sources, that has been done more times than I care to remember. You simply choose to continue your ignorance and not see anything that shows Israel and the IDF as the murderers they are.

However, if you would like to go do a little research of your own you can open a web browser called Google and type in the following....

Gazan fisherman killed
Gazan Farmers killed
Gazan Journalist killed

Should bring up a few million results for you to flip over!


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



As I thought, you are stuttering and mumbling when required to support your nonsense “hit list” slogan. You phonies are so easy. 

You simply parrot the slogans you read on these threads and think it’s clever to make claims you can’t support.


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > *Peace?!* How about You give me a 3rd of Your income and Your daughter so that I don't murder the rest of Your family, and we'll call that _'relative peace'_...deal?
> ...



So Your last resort is 3rd grade name calling?
Didn't expect anything more than that, pity that facts don't sing Your song.

AN Arabic translation of Hitler's Mein Kampf which has become a bestseller in the Palestinian territories is now on sale in Britain.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 3, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Did you actually have anything to say or are you just going to spend the day sulking and butthurt


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



I found this:

*'Abdullah was just catching fish': Gazan fisherman killed by Egypt laid to rest*


Your flaming tirades are looking pretty silly.


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Should bring up a few million results for you to flip over!



Investigate this, 
then let me lead You to a bridge where that argument would work...


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Gee whiz. Those Egyptians must have a “hit list”, yes?

Egypt border guards shoot dead Gazan: medics | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Humanity (Jun 3, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Yes I am sure you did...

Selective reading has always been one of the best zionut traits!


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



I find it not at all surprising that your selective and phony outrage regarding those “poor, oppressed “Pal’istanians“ is decidedly narrow and focused. 

It’s really funny to watch you extreme Jew haters stutter and mumble when your flaming tirades are just so much noise.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> So Your last resort is 3rd grade name calling?
> Didn't expect anything more than that, pity that facts don't sing Your song.
> 
> AN Arabic translation of Hitler's Mein Kampf which has become a bestseller in the Palestinian territories is now on sale in Britain.


You're not stating facts; you're stating innuendo's.  The million refugees you ethnically cleansed from the area did not bring any harm to any Jew, yet you took their land and drove them out using Jewish terrorist groups.  And that violence continues to this day.  Not only should you be investigated, they should take away all your Milky to boot.

BTW, I didn't know what a lie was until 4th grade.


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > So Your last resort is 3rd grade name calling?
> ...



Pogroms, rape, murder and dispossession of oldest Jewish communities is not what You call "not bringing harm". Fact is there're more Arabs living now in Jewish land than ever before under any Arab rule, but the Jews in Arab countries -virtually all were ethnically cleansed.

Don't worry someday You'll blubber something factual, by mistake.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> Pogroms, rape, murder and dispossession of oldest Jewish communities is not what You call "not bringing harm". Fact is there're more Arabs living now in Jewish land than ever before under any Arab rule, but the Jews in Arab countries -virtually all were ethnically cleansed.
> 
> Don't worry someday You'll blubber something factual, by mistake.


So you drove out 750,000 indigenous, non-Jewish residents, because of what happened in other countries?


----------



## rylah (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Pogroms, rape, murder and dispossession of oldest Jewish communities is not what You call "not bringing harm". Fact is there're more Arabs living now in Jewish land than ever before under any Arab rule, but the Jews in Arab countries -virtually all were ethnically cleansed.
> ...



Nope, we drove out the foreign invaders who overstayed their welcome, and made our life miserable for centuries by murdering, raping and displacing us from our holy cities in Israel.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> ]So you consider people giving care to the wounded, your enemy?
> 
> You're pretty sick in the head!



I consider ANYONE who gives any type of material support of my enemies as being fair game. The friend of my enemy is most definitely my enemy.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Okay, then lets start at the beginning.  The house you're living in was owned by one of his neighbors until you walked up with a gun and told the guy to leave because God told you that was your house now.



I believe in the Copper Rule over the Golden Rule. Not familiar with the Copper Rule?:  He who has the most guns and the most capability and willingness to use them, makes the rules.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

rylah said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Wrong.  You drove out 750,000 people who had been living there for generations and committed no crimes.  And you did it with Jewish terrorism.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

Anathema said:


> I consider ANYONE who gives any type of material support of my enemies as being fair game. The friend of my enemy is most definitely my enemy.


So you're saying you have a right to shoot anyone you don't like?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

Anathema said:


> I believe in the Copper Rule over the Golden Rule. Not familiar with the Copper Rule?:  He who has the most guns and the most capability and willingness to use them, makes the rules.


Might makes right.  Right?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Actually, they were committing the crime of OWM, (Occupying While Moslem).


----------



## Shusha (Jun 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > No Gazan is being shot for baking bread or *fishing*
> ...



Seriously.  I really need to ask you a question.  Do you honestly believe that no 'fisherman' EVER in the history of the Gaza conflict has every tried to import weapons by sea?  Do you honestly believe that no 'farmer' EVER in the history of the Gaza conflict has tried to harm Israel or Israelis by planting bombs, IEDS or shooting weapons across the border.  EVER.

Because its one thing to claim that, obviously, these things happen and, obviously, Israel seeks to prevent them and QUITE ANOTHER to claim that these things NEVER have happened and Israel just enjoys shooting fishermen and farmers.


Be clear here.  No Gazans are being shot BECAUSE THEY ARE FISHING or FARMING or WRITING NEWS STORIES.  They are being shot because they are violating the blockade, which Israel set up to protect her citizens from weapons; because they refuse to turn back when instructed; because they fail to respond to non-lethal methods of compliance; and sometimes, in error.  

It is absolutely fine to criticize Israel for her actions in that context.  She should be doing more, she should let people violate the blockade, should she try harder not to use lethal force, should she never ever use lethal force, even if that means permitting Israelis to die...

But to claim that Israel just shoots people because they are fishermen, or farmers, or journalists is blatantly, patently, undeniably anti-semitic.  There can be no other term for it.  And don't you DARE whine to me about me shutting down the conversation with the "anti-semitic card".  I am wide, wide open for criticism of Israel.  

But when you just claim that Israel shoots innocent people because of their occupation you are NOT criticizing Israel you are just demonizing them.  And that is anti-semitic.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > I believe in the Copper Rule over the Golden Rule. Not familiar with the Copper Rule?:  He who has the most guns and the most capability and willingness to use them, makes the rules.
> ...



Sure does. Better weapons, ammo and tactics are important elements to beating down the islamist gee-had.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Might makes right.  Right?



The first Arab-Israeli War in 1948 ... It took 9 months, 3 weeks and 2 days to kick the Arab's ass.
The second Arab-Israeli War in 1956 ... It took 3 weeks and 2 days to kick the Arab's ass.
In the 6 Day War in 1967 ... Well, it took 6 days to kick the Arab's ass.
Perhaps you notice a trend there ... I got money on 1 hour the next time they want to kick the Arab's ass.

I mean you can argue over what you may think is right or wrong ...
But history pretty much demonstrates the Arabs are gonna get their ass kicked if they want to fight about it ... 

.​


----------



## Anathema (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> So you're saying you have a right to shoot anyone you don't like?



Anyone who is a threat to me, my family, or our property.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 3, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Might makes right.  Right?



Pretty much.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 3, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


You can't bounce innocent people for what others do. That is a war crime.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> The first Arab-Israeli War in 1948 ... It took 9 months, 3 weeks and 2 days to kick the Arab's ass.
> The second Arab-Israeli War in 1956 ... It took 3 weeks and 2 days to kick the Arab's ass.
> In the 6 Day War in 1967 ... Well, it took 6 days to kick the Arab's ass.
> Perhaps you notice a trend there ... I got money on 1 hour the next time they want to kick the Arab's ass.
> ...


So you're saying might makes right.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Anyone who is a threat to me, my family, or our property.


And when you create the threat through your own actions...


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 3, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Pretty much.


Did it work for the Germans?


----------



## rylah (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Wrong, they were driven out as a result of a war they initiated.
Their crime was subjugation, murder, rape, religious discrimination
and dispossession of oldest Jewish communities.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 4, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> You can't bounce innocent people for what others do. That is a war crime.



No.  But you can "bounce" people for their own actions.  Such as failing to comply with instruction.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> And when you create the threat through your own actions...



I don’t interact with enough people for that to be an issue.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Did it work for the Germans?



No. They had some good ideas but they went too far.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > The first Arab-Israeli War in 1948 ... It took 9 months, 3 weeks and 2 days to kick the Arab's ass.
> ...



No ... I am saying that if the Arabs want to fight about it ... History demonstrates they will most likely lose.


.​


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 4, 2018)

rylah said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


You can initiate a war from your home?


----------



## rylah (Jun 4, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Yes You can initiate a war against one specific ethnic group of inhabitants,
You can then go to another country to organize Pogroms against the same ethnic group.

Palestinian Arabs did it all.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 4, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



It's always funny to watch you zionut Muslim haters flap and flubber when presented with facts that Israel is not the shining light that you like to portray.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 4, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Ah yes Shusha...

The usual diatribe of BS...

And then followed up with that classic anti-semitic taunt.

No dear, it is not anti-semitic to state facts. Critisizing Israel is not and will never be anti-semitic!


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



I understand you're angry and frustrated but I can't be held responsible for claims you make and cannot support.


----------



## rylah (Jun 4, 2018)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



P F Tinmore lost on words?
That's as far as You can go when You confuse idiotic slogans with facts.

Here's a fact for You:
*Arabs in Palestine initiated the violence against their Jewish neighbors long before any Zionist ever shot a bullet.*


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 4, 2018)

rylah said:


> Wrong, they were driven out as a result of a war they initiated.
> Their crime was subjugation, murder, rape, religious discrimination
> and dispossession of oldest Jewish communities.


You migrated in with the intention of dispossessing them from their land.  You used Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun to do it.  You treated them like garbage from the get go and you're still doing that today.  Your treatment of them is inhuman and cruel.  You will have your Nuremberg.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong, they were driven out as a result of a war they initiated.
> ...


It's called evolution. The old backwards outdated die and move out of the way of the new progressive modern generation.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 4, 2018)

Anathema said:


> I don’t interact with enough people for that to be an issue.


I was referring to Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 4, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> No ... I am saying that if the Arabs want to fight about it ... History demonstrates they will most likely lose.
> 
> 
> .​


When you kick a dog enough times, they will eventually bite you.

So stop kicking the dog.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong, they were driven out as a result of a war they initiated.
> ...


Even by your standards (such as they are) of wailing, pompous melodrama, that was your silliest demonstration yet.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > No ... I am saying that if the Arabs want to fight about it ... History demonstrates they will most likely lose.
> ...



Muhammad (swish) hated dogs. Shame on you for referring to Arabs-Moslems as dogs


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > No ... I am saying that if the Arabs want to fight about it ... History demonstrates they will most likely lose.
> ...


Tell that to the Palestinians with the burning tires, burning kites, and rocket fire. This dog bites back. They are begging Israel to strike back.


----------



## Anathema (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> I was referring to Israel.



Israel didn’t start anything. They’ve been constantly in conflict since the nation was created in 1948. We can agree or disagree with its creation but the moment the other countries attacked Israel in 1948, Israel’s justification for any/all defense measures became obvious.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> When you kick a dog enough times, they will eventually bite you.
> 
> So stop kicking the dog.



... Or take the dog for a one way "walk in the woods" ... 

.​


----------



## rylah (Jun 4, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > When you kick a dog enough times, they will eventually bite you.
> ...



That dog will hide under a million puppy asses, just not to get into a real "walk".


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 4, 2018)

rylah said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


I'd shoot the father.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 4, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Ah yes Shusha...
> 
> The usual diatribe of BS...
> 
> ...



The lengths the anti-Israel crowd will go to to deny Arab complicity and responsibility is truly appalling. 

The argument you guys make is consistently, "Arabs didn't do anything, and Israel just shoots innocent people", as if there are no rockets, no mortars, no weapons being smuggled in, no grenades, no firebombs, no suicide bombers, no kitebombs, no IEDs, no tunnels, no ties to Iran, no guns, no knives, no axes, no machetes, no families butchered in their homes, no blown up markets and pizza parlours, no men slaughtered during prayer service, no dead police officers in holy spaces.

Its appalling.  And I can't think of any other thing to call it but a willful, unreasonable hatred of Israel and Jews.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 4, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> Tell that to the Palestinians with the burning tires, burning kites, and rocket fire. This dog bites back. They are begging Israel to strike back.


Palestinians aren't kicking the dog, you are.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 4, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Israel didn’t start anything. They’ve been constantly in conflict since the nation was created in 1948. We can agree or disagree with its creation but the moment the other countries attacked Israel in 1948, Israel’s justification for any/all defense measures became obvious.


Wrong!  Israel attacked the existing non-Jewish population and drove 750,000 of them out of the area. Israel has been attacking Gaza for the last 12 years.  Israel has started every war they've ever been in, except for one.

BTW, the medic didn't attack Israel and you still shot her.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 4, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> ... Or take the dog for a one way "walk in the woods" ...
> 
> .​


So you're also in to animal cruelty?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Israel didn’t start anything. They’ve been constantly in conflict since the nation was created in 1948. We can agree or disagree with its creation but the moment the other countries attacked Israel in 1948, Israel’s justification for any/all defense measures became obvious.
> ...


Waah


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 4, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> So you're also in to animal cruelty?



Not at all ... You're the one that brought up the idea of kicking dogs ... 

I would also regret having to put down a dog that cannot be managed any other way.
But ... I am a good shot, he'll never see it coming and won't suffer.

.​


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 5, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> Not at all ... You're the one that brought up the idea of kicking dogs ...
> 
> I would also regret having to put down a dog that cannot be managed any other way.
> But ... I am a good shot, he'll never see it coming and won't suffer.
> ...


When you're the one causing the cruelty, you are the one who should be put down, metaphorically speaking.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 5, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> When you're the one causing the cruelty, you are the one who should be put down, metaphorically speaking.



Well Fido ... If you think I need putting down, come get your ass kicked again, metaphorically speaking of course ... 

.​


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 5, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> Well Fido ... If you think I need putting down, come get your ass kicked again, metaphorically speaking of course ...
> 
> .​


Are you deliberately playing stupid?  If you don't get the point of my metaphor by now, then you are deliberately refusing to see it.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 5, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Are you deliberately playing stupid?  If you don't get the point of my metaphor by now, then you are deliberately refusing to see it.



Oh, I get the metaphor ... Your metaphor is stupid.

All I ever indicated was that if the Arabs want to fight about it they will probably get their asses kicked ... Again.
If you think some international pity party is probably a better option for Arab success ... Give it a shot.

Stand in the yard and bark Fido ... You'll be okay.
Come up by the porch growling and snapping ... And I'll put you down.

.​


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jun 5, 2018)

Every problem Israel has comes from being too soft.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 5, 2018)

Reported on FB, One of their flying burning kites have landed in a College campus. Israelis should've shot the kit flyers before they released the kites.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 5, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> You migrated in with the intention of dispossessing them from their land.



No.  The Jewish people returned to their homeland with the promise of international support for a reconstituted sovereign nation.  The intent was never to exclude Arabs nor to remove them.  This is perfectly evident in the fact that a large number of Arabs remain in Israel.  And in the fact that expulsions, where they occurred, and flight were direct, immediate responses to the military conflict between Israel and both internal (civil) and external (foreign) threats.  

The dispossession, tragic as it is, was a direct result of violence and military action by the Arabs who were actively attempting to prevent a reconstituted sovereign Israel.

Now, having said that, the Jewish people absolutely wanted self-determination and a distinctly Jewish State, with specific accommodations made for the Arab peoples, including recognition of an official language, equality in religious service, Sharia as family law, etc and an entrenchment in law of equality between all peoples.

The difficult question, then, is whether it is morally acceptable to form a nation around one, specific ethnic group, in order to preserve the culture, traditions, religious beliefs, language and history of that group.  I think it is.  I also apply that concept universally (my argument is consistent) both presently and historically; to Israel, Palestine, Gaza, Catalan, Scotland, First Nations,Tibet, Kurds, Western Sahara, Cyprus, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Croatia, Ukraine, Russia, Estonia, Georgia, Kabylia, Caminda, Tuareg, Mapuche, Raizal, etc.  The list is VERY long.   

I also think it is immoral to prevent these nations from forming.  Nations are formed primarily around these things (with colonized North America being the notable exception). The time of vast Empires is over.  People should be permitted to organize around their own native culture.  

So, then the question becomes whether or not this can be accomplished peacefully, voluntarily and whether or not it can happen in the context of non-homogeneous residency.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 5, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> Oh, I get the metaphor ... Your metaphor is stupid.
> 
> All I ever indicated was that if the Arabs want to fight about it they will probably get their asses kicked ... Again.
> If you think some international pity party is probably a better option for Arab success ... Give it a shot.
> ...


My metaphor is not stupid, you fucking pussy!  You've been treating the Palestinians like garbage ever since you moved into the area.  You're the one initiating the violence.  You're the bully.  And in end, all bully's get their ass kicked.

BTW, I'm at the 49ner Tavern in Long Beach, California every Friday night between 4:30 - 5:30pm for happy hour, if you care to finish this discussion face to face.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 5, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I get the metaphor ... Your metaphor is stupid.
> ...


Sorry, loser Arabs don't get a do-over every time they lose a war.


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 5, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> My metaphor is not stupid, you fucking pussy!  You've been treating the Palestinians like garbage ever since you moved into the area.  You're the one initiating the violence.  You're the bully.  And in end, all bully's get their ass kicked.
> 
> BTW, I'm at the 49ner Tavern in Long Beach, California every Friday night between 4:30 - 5:30pm for happy hour, if you care to finish this discussion face to face.



Listen nit-wit ... I haven't treated the Palestinians anyway but nice ...
Their Shell station in the neighboring town is clean and has a decent selection on the lunch menu.

I haven't bullied or initiated violence with anyone.
Say/ believe whatever you want and the Arab conflict with the Israelis ... But they'll probably get their ass kicked ... Again.

As for your pathetic metaphor and worthless invitation ...
I wouldn't give a shit if you stood in the red light district in New Orleans ...
That ain't my porch ... You can howl at the moon and jack off to the juke box wherever you like ... 

.​


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 5, 2018)

Shusha said:


> No.  The Jewish people returned to their homeland with the promise of international support for a reconstituted sovereign nation.  The intent was never to exclude Arabs nor to remove them.  This is perfectly evident in the fact that a large number of Arabs remain in Israel.  And in the fact that expulsions, where they occurred, and flight were direct, immediate responses to the military conflict between Israel and both internal (civil) and external (foreign) threats.
> 
> The dispossession, tragic as it is, was a direct result of violence and military action by the Arabs who were actively attempting to prevent a reconstituted sovereign Israel.
> 
> ...


What are you, 3000 years old?  You didn't return from shit.  You moved there at the turn of the last century and violently purged 750,000 indigenous, non-Jewish residents from homes they had been living in for generations.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 5, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> Listen nit-wit ... I have treated the Palestinians anyway but nice ...
> Their Shell station in the neighboring town is clean and has a decent selection on the lunch menu.
> 
> I have bullied or initiated violence with anyone.
> ...


You saw that?


----------



## BlackSand (Jun 5, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > Listen nit-wit ... I have treated the Palestinians anyway but nice ...
> ...



Your cousin (I think) posted it on YouTube ... 

.​


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 6, 2018)

I knew there were some good decent people in Israel, it just took awhile to find them.  

*Avraham Burg* _(former speaker of the Knesset and chairman of the Jewish Agency)_
_*Prof Nurit Peled Elhanan* (2001 co-laureate of the Sakharov prize)
*Prof David Harel* (vice-president of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities and recipient of the 2004 Israel Prize)
*Prof Yehoshua Kolodny* (recipient of the 2010 Israel prize)
*Alex Levac *(photographer and recipient of the 2005 Israel prize)
*Prof Judd Ne’eman* (director and recipient of the 2009 Israel prize)
*Prof Zeev Sternhell *(historian and recipient of the 2008 Israel prize)
*Prof David Shulman* (recipient of the 2016 Israel prize)
*David Tartakover *(artist and recipient of the 2002 Israel prize)
_​And this is their statement...

_“ *We, Israelis who wish our country to be safe and just, are appalled and horrified by the massive killing of unarmed Palestinian demonstrators in Gaza* (Reports, 15 May). 

*None of the demonstrators posed any direct danger to the state of Israel or to its citizens.* 

We call upon decent members of the international community to act by demanding that those who commanded such shootings be investigated and tried. 

*The current leaders of the Israeli government are responsible for the criminal policy of shooting at unarmed demonstrators.* 

The world must intervene to stop the ongoing killing.” (Letters, “The Guardian”, 16 May 2018.)_​Now that's what a human being should say.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 6, 2018)

No one is suggesting that it is morally or legally permissible to target and kill unarmed demonstrators who pose no threat.  It is certainly not Israel's policy to do so.

Now did you want to stop denying reality and discuss armed combatants who DO pose a threat?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 6, 2018)

Shusha said:


> No one is suggesting that it is morally or legally permissible to target and kill unarmed demonstrators who pose no threat.  It is certainly not Israel's policy to do so.
> 
> Now did you want to stop denying reality and discuss armed combatants who DO pose a threat?


The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from Israeli aggression.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > No one is suggesting that it is morally or legally permissible to target and kill unarmed demonstrators who pose no threat.  It is certainly not Israel's policy to do so.
> ...



What aggression?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 6, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> I knew there were some good decent people in Israel, it just took awhile to find them.
> 
> *Avraham Burg* _(former speaker of the Knesset and chairman of the Jewish Agency)
> *Prof Nurit Peled Elhanan* (2001 co-laureate of the Sakharov prize)
> ...


Have you seen the consequences of the Palestinians actions? Have you seen the damage they cause because the Israelites didn't kill enough of them?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 6, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > No one is suggesting that it is morally or legally permissible to target and kill unarmed demonstrators who pose no threat.  It is certainly not Israel's policy to do so.
> ...


Simply existing is not aggression.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 6, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 6, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


True, but shooting at farmers and fishers is. Stealing land and killing those who protest is. Destroying private property is.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Defending oneself from the Islamist gee-had is an inherent right.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 6, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...


You call that defense?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 6, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Shooting at fishers who are smuggling wpns, or farmers who are cutting through the border fence is not aggression. Nor is killing those who are trying to penetrate the border, flying firey kites in your direction, or rolling on fire tires at you much less throwing rocks and wielding melee weapons.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 6, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > No one is suggesting that it is morally or legally permissible to target and kill unarmed demonstrators who pose no threat.  It is certainly not Israel's policy to do so.
> ...


Is that what Gazan rockets are doing?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Yes, I call that defense. Islamic terrorists are attacking a security fence that protects israeli citizens from you 7th century savages. Those defensive measures employed by the IDF are required.


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb (Jun 6, 2018)

It's just Darwinism being played out.
Never throw rocks at people with guns


----------



## Shusha (Jun 6, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > No one is suggesting that it is morally or legally permissible to target and kill unarmed demonstrators who pose no threat.  It is certainly not Israel's policy to do so.
> ...



Exactly.  And they have the right to die as combatants in the conflict.  They also have an obligation to protect the innocent civilians in their midst and remove them from areas of conflict where combatants are engaged.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 6, 2018)

They also have the obligation to ensure that protected persons such as journalists and medics do not participate as combatants in the military engagement.  

Medic acting as a combatant.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 6, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> Have you seen the consequences of the Palestinians actions? Have you seen the damage they cause because the Israelites didn't kill enough of them?


They're not actions, they are reactions.  The Israelis initiated the violence.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 6, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Have you seen the consequences of the Palestinians actions? Have you seen the damage they cause because the Israelites didn't kill enough of them?
> ...



Even by your standards of pointless nonsense, that was a new statement of pointlessness.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 6, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Have you seen the consequences of the Palestinians actions? Have you seen the damage they cause because the Israelites didn't kill enough of them?
> ...


rolling burning tires into Israel border is not a reaction.
flying burning kits into Israel is not a reaction.
Firing rockets into Israel is not a reaction.
Israel maintained the border and only fires into their zone when attacked or when someone attempts to breach the border or when someone attempts to smuggle weapons in. 
Stop attacking Israel and Israel will stop attacking you.
Israel should seal the border and not allow any Palestinian to cross it into Israel. They should open the water way for egress but only if they can trust Palestinians to not use it to bring in weapons to attack Israel with.
or, Israel should REACT and keep REACTING until Palestinians are all dead or beg for conditions of surrender.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 7, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> rolling burning tires into Israel border is not a reaction.
> flying burning kits into Israel is not a reaction.
> Firing rockets into Israel is not a reaction.
> Israel maintained the border and only fires into their zone when attacked or when someone attempts to breach the border or when someone attempts to smuggle weapons in.
> ...


Burning tires and flying kites are protests about the illegal and immoral blockade that has been going on for the last 12 years and the occupation that has been going on since 1967.  That is an attack by Israel that has been going on for 51 years.  How can you possibly say they have no right to react to that?  You treat someone like total garbage for 5 decades, then turn around and say they have no right to object, indicates you have absolutely no concept of right and wrong.

End the occupation and blockade and the Palestinians will stop reacting.  They have already surrendered, yet you keep attacking them.  Israel has no legal right to tell others what to do on their own property.  The buffer zone is on Gazan property, not Israels.  Israel has no jurisdiction in Gazan territorial waters and it has no right to limit fishing or commerce to and from Gaza.  

Lets not forget how inhuman and inherently evil it is to shoot people while they fish, while they farm and while they attend to the wounded.  The blockade has nothing to do with security, but everything to do with the collective punishment of an entire population of people that committed no crime.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 7, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > rolling burning tires into Israel border is not a reaction.
> ...



That cheap moralizing to defend Islamic terrorists is the same silly screed you cut and paste across multiple threads.

“Just be nice to Islamic fascists and they will be nice to you.”


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 7, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > rolling burning tires into Israel border is not a reaction.
> ...


You lie.
Blockade is in reaction to actions by Palestinians, using Fisher men to smuggle weapons, using Medical worker uniforms to conceal their attempts to sneak over the border, using civilians to cover their attempted invasion of Israel Time and Time again. They are making things worse for themselves with this shit and should stop.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 7, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> You lie.
> Blockade is in reaction to actions by Palestinians, using Fisher men to smuggle weapons, using Medical worker uniforms to conceal their attempts to sneak over the border, using civilians to cover their attempted invasion of Israel Time and Time again. They are making things worse for themselves with this shit and should stop.


That is nothing but Israeli propaganda and bullshit.  The fishermen weren't smuggling weapons, they were fishing.  And saying the Pals can't have weapons, is saying they don't have the right to defend themselves.  Which is a pretty fucked up thing to say.  

The blockade is in reaction to the results of a fair and democratic election.  Gazans wouldn't vote for Israels bitch, so it pissed off the asshole Zionists.  The blockade has nothing to do with security.

BTW, even people trying to sneak into Israel, doesn't give you the right to shoot them dead.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 7, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > You lie.
> ...



Well actually, when Islamic terrorists have announced their intention to crash the border and kill Jewish citizens and are attempting to do that, your apologetics for Islamic savages are dismissed as pointless.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 7, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > You lie.
> ...


Can't have weapons, losers.


----------



## member (Jun 7, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > rolling burning tires into Israel border is not a reaction.
> ...



*"End the occupation and blockade and the Palestinians will stop reacting..."*

stop generalizing:  "The PALESTINIANS" - it's the terrorists that _will stop reacting_.....

and....NO ONE really believes that [except folks like you

 who pretend there's no terrorist element ruining
chance after 

 chance for peace...]


----------



## Shusha (Jun 7, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> And saying the Pals can't have weapons, is saying they don't have the right to defend themselves.  Which is a pretty fucked up thing to say.
> 
> BTW, even people trying to sneak into Israel, doesn't give you the right to shoot them dead.



Well?  Which is it?  

Either people are allowed to have lethal weapons to use to defend themselves from people threatening to kill them.

OR

People have no right to use lethal weapons to defend themselves from people threatening to kill them.  

You can't have it one way for the Palestinians and one way for the Israelis.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 7, 2018)

member said:


> *"End the occupation and blockade and the Palestinians will stop reacting..."*
> 
> stop generalizing:  "The PALESTINIANS" - it's the terrorists that _will stop reacting_.....
> 
> ...


Palestinians are not terrorists.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 7, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Well?  Which is it?
> 
> Either people are allowed to have lethal weapons to use to defend themselves from people threatening to kill them.
> 
> ...


People can have lethal weapons to use to defend themselves from people trying to kill them.  Israelis are actively trying to kill Gazans.  Gazans have a right to have lethal weapons to defend themselves.  If Gazans had Cobra gunships, I doubt Israeli snipers would've shot 119 Gazan protesters to death.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Palestinians are not terrorists.



Except when they are.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > You lie.
> ...


Yes it does. Someone tries to illegally cross the border of a country the proper response is a bullet.
Pat's can't have weapons because they fire them at Israel. If they stopped doing that nobody would care whether they had weapons or not.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Well?  Which is it?
> ...


Israel only attacks Gazans when attacked or when the border is being violated via tunneling or attempts to cross it.
Stay on your side of the border and don't fire anything at Israel and you won't be shot.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 8, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Except when they are.


Resisting the occupation of a foreign force, is not terrorism.  Shooting at people fishing and farming, is.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 8, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> Yes it does. Someone tries to illegally cross the border of a country the proper response is a bullet.
> Pat's can't have weapons because they fire them at Israel. If they stopped doing that nobody would care whether they had weapons or not.


So people seeking asylum should be murdered?  How about Zionists who illegally migrated into Palestine towards the end of the Mandate a 100 years ago?  Should they have been murdered?  How about Jews fleeing Nazi Germany into Switzerland, should they have been shot by the Swiss?

How about the IDF crossing into Gaza?  If you take away the Pals weapons, then the Israeli soldiers won't get the bullet you say they deserve.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 8, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> Israel only attacks Gazans when attacked or when the border is being violated via tunneling or attempts to cross it.
> Stay on your side of the border and don't fire anything at Israel and you won't be shot.


The buffer zone is on their side of the border and you still killed 119 of them.

Who was the medic attacking when you killed her?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Except when they are.
> ...


Not doing damage to the alleged occupiers is not resisting. Doing damage to their civilian structures, risking the lives of their children, is not resisting. You have to actually aim and fire at someone wearing a uniform to be considered resisting.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Israel only attacks Gazans when attacked or when the border is being violated via tunneling or attempts to cross it.
> ...


The Fence.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Except when they are.
> ...


Waaah, the jews won't let us kill them. Waah.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Israel only attacks Gazans when attacked or when the border is being violated via tunneling or attempts to cross it.
> ...



The majority of those gloriously martyred were Hamas flunkies.

The alleged "medic" was in a war zone created by islamics. War zones are dangerous places.

It's telling how you Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers screech with phony "outrage" surrounding the death of the so-called "medic". It's so contrived.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jun 8, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



any more lies and propaganda for the day that your boss has instructed you to post lately? comedy gold.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Except when they are.
> ...



which is the norm for Israel troops on palestine civillians.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 8, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  Billo_Really, Shusha, et al,

Again, this is a twisting of facts designed to draw sympathy. 

Terrorism has absolutely NO connection with an "occupation;" a "resistance," or a "foreign force."  None of these conditions are necessary to define terrorism.  We discussed this just recently in Posting #9 _(RE: I guess these guys won't be moving their embassy anytime soon...)_. 

Terrorism is often, though not always, defined in terms of four characteristics:

The threat or use of violence;
A political objective; the desire to change the status quo;
The intention to spread fear by committing spectacular public acts;
The intentional targeting of civilians. It is this last element - targeting innocent civilians - that stands out in efforts to distinguish state terrorism from other forms of state violence. Declaring war and sending the military to fight other militaries is not terrorism, nor is the use of violence to punish criminals who have been convicted of violent crimes.
However, the legality of a "resistance movement,"is governed under Customary and International Humanitarian Law and is punishable under Article 68 fo the Fourth Geneva Convention:   _(It is punishable because it violates the law.)_



			
				Article 68 said:
			
		

> Protected persons _*[Arab Palestinians]*_ who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power *[Israel]*, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offenses, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66  of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power *[Israel]*, in accordance with Articles 64  and 65  may impose the death penalty on a protected person _*[Arab Palestinians]*_ only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power *[Israel]* or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began *[Jordanian Law]*.
> 
> ...


 


Billo_Really said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Except when they are.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

It is not now, nor has it very been, really clear as to the status of some armed group which arose from the civil population of the Occupied Territory ⇒ to resist the occupying power and to disrupt civil order and stability.  What is clear is that a resistance movement that intentionally targets → or indiscriminately fires upon civilians _(either protected persons or civilians of the occupying power)_ IS "terrorism."  _(See Item #4 above)_

In respect to the "resistance movement," there is no special dispensation under Customary IHL.  In the case of Terrorism, your implication that the general _modus operendi_ for HAMAS PIJ, PFLP etc, is punishable by law.  Why? _(RHETORICAL)_  Because in the eyes of those in the 21st Century with a moral compus, it is wrong.

When Israel _(the occupying force)_ is using the entitled to use the ‘_conduct-of-hostilities’_ model _(a shift from the law enforcement)_ against armed forces of HAMAS or othe Hostile Arab Palestinians (_the occupied territories, affiliated militias or other resistance movements)_ since active hostilities have persisted within the framework of the original international armed conflict for seven decades, the methods and procedures for Maritime Interception Operations (MIO) has essentially remained the same.  And when a vessel is ordered to "heave-to" or alter course and fails to do so, it is not unusual to fire shot across the bow.  This has been a long standing Maritime practice.  It is a point of laughter among mariners when Arab Palestinians claim they are being fired at.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 8, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> Terrorism is often, though not always, defined in terms of four characteristics:
> 
> The threat or use of violence;
> A political objective; the desire to change the status quo;
> ...


Fits Israel to a T.

Terrorism is usually just juvenile name calling to slime your opponent.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 8, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Terrorism is often, though not always, defined in terms of four characteristics:
> ...



Well actually, because you are acting out like a petulant child, you might want to take notice to the fact that it was your Islamist co-religionists who made threats, initiated the violence with threats to “rip their hearts out (of the Israelis), and are maintaining their violent, retrograde behavior. 

You do have this habit of “sliming the Arabs-Moslems”, by flailing your Pom Poms for their failed gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 8, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Are you going to base your shtick on what one nut case says?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 8, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Are you going to continue your pattern of self-imposed ignorance?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jun 8, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  Billo_Really, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Again, this is a twisting of facts designed to draw sympathy.
> ...


Israel satisfies the 4 definitions you stated.  So Israel practices state-sanctioned terrorism.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 8, 2018)

Billo_Really said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



Actually, you should learn some foundational elements of critical thinking skills.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



You will find that Israel also has an obligation to protect the innocent civilians when it decides to bomb Gaza, fire live rounds into a crowd.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


um, no. If innocent civilians mix themselves in with combatants then they become valid targets. Real innocent civilians would remove themselves from the situation.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 14, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  Humanity,  _et al,_

Anyone that describes the events as "61 Murdered Palestinians" has already made the determination of guilt.  Any investigation is corrupted even before it starts.  You might as well forgo any pretense of a judicial tribunal because it blatantly disregards recognized standards justice.   



Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

There are any number of times where the actions of the Arab Palestinian Leadership have acted in a way that:

•  Created a substantial risk of serious physical injury to innocent Arab Palestinian.

•  Acted in a way that showed an utter disregard for the foreseeable adverse and harmful consequences of the actions.​
Many Arab Palestinian Leadership sponsored, aggravated, or incited conduct that has shown a culpable disregard of probable consequences to innocent persons from an act --- or the omission --- of the act to be reckless conduct.

It is not necessary that the Arab Palestinian Leadership have an intention to cause harm.  But in the nonfeasance of *Customary and International Humanitarian Laws* are responsible --- and should be held accountable as the cause of injury or death:

•  Locating Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters within or near densely populated areas or within crowds of demonstrators.

•  Intentionally NOT removing innocent civilian persons under its jurisdiction and governmental control from the vicinity of active engagements or areas very likely to cause serious harm to innocent civilians.

•  Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter activity immune from Israeli response engagement.  Using the presence of a civilian or other protected person to screen Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter activity from interdiction by the Israeli Forces.​
There is no question that Arab Palestinian Leadership have demonstrated depraved indifference to innocent lives when they purposely place protected persons in harms way.   The Arab Palestinian Leadership has acted both recklessly and willfully in the intentional disregard of the consequences.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Israel absolutely does have that obligation. And she has been fulfilling that obligation astoundingly well by the military practices she has been using. 

What has the government of Gaza been doing to protect the innocent civilians?  Are they policing the protest and ensuring that all children and innocent civilians keep at least 300m from the fence?  Are they searching people and removing weapons from everyone except combatants?  Are they publicly urging calm and obedience to IDF instruction?  What?


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Aha, just like Israel, you clearly do not have any understanding of international law...

You, just like Israel, should go check it out. It's quite fascinating!


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Well, at least you didn't deny Israels obligation!

Israel has FAILED the obligations to protect the civilians of Gaza. Period!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Launching rockets at Israeli civilians, Hamas violation of international law.
Doing so while hiding amongst Palestinian civilians, another Hamas violation of international law.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



Well at least you don't try and defend Israel...

A step in the right direction!


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Why is Israel responsible for protecting Arabs-Moslems from themselves? When Arabs-Moslems insist on making decisions and assuming behaviors that puts them at risk, they must assume responsibility for those decisions.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Israel has not failed in her obligation. On the contrary, her actions have been exemplary under the conditions. If you feel they are not, please provide an explanation of how they do not conform to international law and/or how you believe they should improve under the conditions. 

Also please address my second set of points concerning what actions the government of Gaza is obligated to take to protect its own citizens.


----------



## member (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...





 *"Well, at least you didn't deny Israels obligation!
Israel has FAILED the obligations to protect the civilians of Gaza.* 

 *Period!"*




 *"Launching rockets at Israeli civilians, Hamas violation of international law.  Doing so while hiding amongst Palestinian civilians, another Hamas violation of international law."  *








*"Israel has FAILED the obligations to protect the civilians of Gaza"*

reminds me of the ramblings of a tribal terrorist and their pointy fingers......


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



When Israel retaliates against Hamas terrorists hiding among civilians, the Palestinian causalities 
are entirely the fault of Hamas.

That's a Hamas war-crime, not an Israeli war-crime.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

member said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Israel has no obligation to protect civilians in Gaza when Hamas launches attacks from civilian buildings.
If Hamas launches a rocket from a school or hospital and Israel flattens the building, that's on Hamas.....
Sorry if that makes you cry.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



I guess you have a different idea to "obligation" than the rest of the world...

Oh wait, you are a zionut... Of course you would!

Israel can do no wrong brigade!


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

member said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Well, you are a true "member" aren't you!

If you actually said anything among the blue text and over use of smilies perhaps you could try again?


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You need to check out what international law says about that. Then come back to us!


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Well, sorry to make you look dumb again but Israel DOES have an obligation.

Butthurt again!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Why don't you post the law(s) you think apply. I'll be happy to point out your error(s).


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > member said:
> ...



Israel is under no obligation to not retaliate, just because Hamas is hiding behind civilians.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> I guess you have a different idea to "obligation" than the rest of the world...
> 
> Oh wait, you are a zionut... Of course you would!
> 
> Israel can do no wrong brigade!



Leave out the logical fallacies and the shameful personal attacks and outline Israel's obligations in international law, or your own moral belief system, concerning response to combatants mixed with protected persons.

And answer the question about the government of Gaza's obligations under same.  

Else admit you can't.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Go and read the Geneva Conventions... 

Simple!

I look forward to you pointing out my "errors"


----------



## Shusha (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity 

See, I think you believe that international law makes combatants immune to attack if they are hidden among civilians.  Which is incorrect.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



So then, to use your 'logic'(?) Hamas is equally without blame as it is their obligation to ensure that they are no longer occupied territory!


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > I guess you have a different idea to "obligation" than the rest of the world...
> ...



YAWN!

Geneva Conventions!

I feel no shame in personal attacks in the same way that Team Israel feels no shame in believing that it's ok to murder Palestinians, in fact, most call for their murder!


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity
> 
> See, I think you believe that international law makes combatants immune to attack if they are hidden among civilians.  Which is incorrect.



See, you should never assume anything!


----------



## Shusha (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Go and read the Geneva Conventions...
> 
> Simple!
> 
> I look forward to you pointing out my "errors"



You should start with reading Article 5 which states:

_Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State._


----------



## Shusha (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> See, you should never assume anything!



So, you agree that combatants hidden in civilians are not immune to attack, then, yes?  So given a mixed combatant/civilian population -- what obligations does each Party to the conflict have?  This isn't hard.  Why are you being so coy?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



I have read them. That's why I know you're wrong.

But feel free to post the part that you feel allows Hamas to attack Israel 
and prevents retaliation because the Hamas cowards hide behind civilians.

Or run away...…..


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Hamas is to blame for the civilian casualties on both sides.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 14, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  Shusha,  Humanity,

Shuasha, you are 100% correct.  See •  *ARTICLE 28** [ Link ]* • consisting of the three principle rules and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. 



Shusha said:


> See, I think you believe that international law makes combatants immune to attack if they are hidden among civilians.  Which is incorrect.


*(COMMENT)*

Under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) (from the ICRC Database). which includes the Fourth Geneva Convention, the primary rules that are applicable are:

*Rule 23.* Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.

*Rule 24.* Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.

*Rule 97.* The use of human shields is prohibited.

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Treatment II. Danger zones
•  *ARTICLE 28** [ Link ]* • 

*The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.*​*International and non-international armed conflicts*
In the context of international armed conflicts, this rule is set forth in the Third Geneva Convention (with respect to prisoners of war), the Fourth Geneva Convention (with respect to protected civilians) and Additional Protocol I (with respect to civilians in general).[1] Under the Statute of the International Criminal Court, “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.[2]

_[1] Third Geneva Convention, Article 23, first paragraph (cited in Vol. II, Ch. 32, § 2251); Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 28 (ibid., § 2252); Additional Protocol I, Article 51(7) (adopted by consensus) (ibid., § 2254)._
_[2] ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii) (ibid., § 2255)._
_Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to
render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military
operations;_​
I hope this answer the question.

Most Resepctfully,
R


----------



## Humanity (Jun 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Go and read the Geneva Conventions...
> ...



And Israel does this how?

Shoot or shell first ask questions after?

That is not what the article states is it!


----------



## Shusha (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...




The article says that if a person is *suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State* then they are no longer afforded protection under the Convention.  

There are an awful lot of persons suspected of or engaged in hostile activities threatening the security of Israel at the Gaza border.  These are not protected persons under the GCIV.  Your claim that Israel is murdering innocent civilians is patently false.  Israel is acting correctly according to international law with respect to these threats.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Most Israelis (in fact), call for the murder of Arabs-Moslems calling themselves Pal’istanians? 

Team islsmic terrorist Pom Pom flailers seem to have a real problem with understanding facts vs. their hysterical, pointless claims.


----------



## member (Jun 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...











*"I feel no shame in personal attacks in the same way that *

* Team Israel feels no shame in believing that it's ok to murder Palestinians, in fact, most *

 *call for their murder!"*





_*"in fact, most *_ 

 _*call for their murder!"*_  --- talk about being  overly-dramatic [in this case]....

...ridiculous [_call for their murder_]........and your heroes 

 -- the terrorists, barbarians.  the kids, the ones under 18 tossing rocks, they should be riding their bikes instead.

but your 1/2 right.....Terrorists ?  

 always hope their diabolical plan goes haywire first in their face...before hurting innocent people.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1)... and (2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories *(excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*

Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949 - 4 -  - Commentary of 1958


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



*Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1)... and (2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories*

If Hamas launches attacks from behind "protected persons", Israeli retaliation is still legal.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



If Hamas launches attacks from behind "protected persons", Israeli retaliation is still legal. 

_Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict _

As your omitted info confirms.....DERP!


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 14, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

You are trying to mislead people here.  The is no authority for the Arab Palestinians to attack or otherwise assault and civilian (Israelis included) or members of the occupying power in general.   I know that many Arab Palestinians, with a thirst for blood, like to suggest that there is some legal basis for them to attack Israelis.  That is simply not the case.  But the continued insinuation that they have this blood thirsty authority only serves to demonstrate the true criminal character of-of those that suggest just that.



P F Tinmore said:


> Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1)... and (2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories *(excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).*
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949 - 4 -  - Commentary of 1958


*(COMMENT)*

If the Arab Palestinians target individuals from Israel inside the territories, then they are punished under Article 68.   The Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters are prohibited from specific actions.:

•  The Arab Palestinian may NOT commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.

•  The Arab Palestinian may NOT commit espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​
Israelis are not considered protect persons because and the Occupying Power, would normally provide for the security of "Protected Persons" (only law-abiding Arab Palestinians).  See *Posting #400*, pertaining to the specific Customary and International Humanitarian Law cited --- covering the criminal activity that the Arab Palestinians engage in every single day.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 14, 2018)

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  et al,

I always thought it a bit strange that the many Arab Palestinians that advocate and incite the typical criminal violence under the guise of "Resistance Movement" (and therefore legal) should do so knowing that it violates Customary and International Humanitarian Law, and is punishable by the same. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Occupations have different rules.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  et al,
> 
> I always thought it a bit strange that the many Arab Palestinians that advocate and incite the typical criminal violence under the guise of "Resistance Movement" (and therefore legal) should do so knowing that it violates Customary and International Humanitarian Law, and is punishable by the same.
> ...


You never specify which International Laws the Palestinians violate.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



So Israeli soldiers or civilians in Gaza can be attacked by Hamas, while Hamas hides behind civilians because.....occupation? 

Can you show which part of the GC backs that claim?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 14, 2018)

RE:   corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, this is a bit misleading.  Military Occupations and Foreign Civil Administrations are covered by exactly the same Customary and International Humanitarian Law that cover International Armed Conflicts (IACs) and 
Non-International Armed Conflicts (NIAC).



P F Tinmore said:


> Occupations have different rules.


*(COMMENT)*

Occupations, Civil Administrations, and generalized air/sea/land applicable laws are essentially the same.  There are shared "Common Articles."  What varies is that each situation has some unique applications.

But the obligations in the NIAC/AIC and the Occupations are essentially the same.  You cannot target civilians unless they are engaged in activities that would negate their "protected status."  And you cannot abuse the "protected status" to conduct criminal activity in war, or pursue Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgency, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and other activities of Asymmetric fighter.  _(Regardless of the Resistance Status)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Humanity (Jun 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Your claim that Israel is murdering innocent civilians is patently false



How many more links would like me to post that proves you a liar?

Palestinian journalist killed in Israel-Gaza protests

You blind defense of Israel is that of a sick mind!


----------



## Humanity (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> Customary and International Humanitarian Law



You are aware that Israel is not except from that law?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Your claim that Israel is murdering innocent civilians is patently false
> ...



You rely too much on pointless melodrama as a way to sidestep your failed argument. Explain how your “murdering innocent civilians” nonsense applies in  the context of a war zone created by Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:   corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this is a bit misleading.  Military Occupations and Foreign Civil Administrations are covered by exactly the same Customary and International Humanitarian Law that cover International Armed Conflicts (IACs) and
> ...


The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.

In 2003 we went to Cairo. The Egyptians asked whether Hamas is ready to stop the martyrdom operations or not. We gave the Egyptians a better offer. We were ready to have an agreement to stop targeting civilians [on] both sides. The army is supposed to fight, but civilians should be out of it. The Egyptians agreed and passed it on to the Israelis.

Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.

Halevi went back to Israel, but Sharon rejected the proposal.

A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org


----------



## Humanity (Jun 15, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Exactly...

That is the kind of fucked up zionut thinking that induces a disliking of Israel.

Because your glorious Israel is beyond international and customary law because you morons think that Israel has some kind of 'special' status and beyond reproach.

When you retards start thinking about Israel as an 'ordinary' country then there might be some progress.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



You made an effort to sidestep my comments but left yourself stuttrring and mumbling. So, the question remains; how does "murdering innocent civilians" apply in  the context of a war zone created by Islamic terrorists?

You might also want to consider your claim about Israel having some special status. Islamic terrorists are the aggressors in the on-going border war. What international laws apply to the islamic terrorists and their acts of war?


----------



## Humanity (Jun 15, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



It's ok...

Your lack of intelligence and extreme bias and hatred of Islam will not be swayed so why would I bother wasting my time explaining something to you that is as obvious as the lack of brain cells in your head?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2018)

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ Humanity, et al,

Yes, I understand that Israel is not exempt from Customary and International Humanitarian Law.



Humanity said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Customary and International Humanitarian Law
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

But by the same token, I also understand that Israel is often falsely accused of defending itself against a state that has sponsored terrotism _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters) _on a continuous basis since a time before the Munich Massacre. 

Now I know that there are factions, rather large Arab Palestinian factions, that believe that openly supporting avowed jihadist like the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), and that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" is completely justified and legal.  I understand that the Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolt for the liberation of the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine; and that their "March of Return" _(although you would be hard-pressed to find anyone that was actually a bonafide returnee)_ and attempt to swarm the border is their right _(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation)_.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> _(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation)_.


Uhh, there is no border there.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > _(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation)_.
> ...



Except the border that Israel defends. Have you read the news of islamic terrorists massing near that border?

There are videos on YouTube.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


They are just repeating Israeli say so like they usually do.

There is no border there. That is just Israel's cage around Gaza.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2018)

RE:   corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Yes, I understand.  But you are mistaken.



P F Tinmore said:


> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.


*(COMMENT)*

From the ICRC (Red Cross) International Humanitarian Law Database:

_*Rule 5. Civilians are persons who are not members of the armed forces. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.*_

Israeli Settlers in Area "C" _(full Israeli civil and security control)_ is an administrative division of the West Bank, set out in the Oslo II Accord. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:   corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Yes, I understand.  But you are mistaken.
> ...


So, what does that have to do with my post?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Oh, for heaven's sake.  Exactly how irrational can you be?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > _(although you would be hard-pressed to find a law that says the Palestinian Arab people are legally allowed to threaten the border of another nation)_.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

You can pull your --- Where is the Map trick --- all you want.  But the border is established, it is very tangible and evidence to its own existence.  On one side it is under Israeli sovereignty; and on the other side it is a state sponsor of terrorism.




 ​
Reality is the something beyond Arab Palestinian fantasy.



			
				Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
			
		

> _Having considered_ the principles of international law relating to friendly relations and co-operation among States,
> 
> _*1.
> 
> ...



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Such nonsense.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2018)

RE:   corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

I have to laugh, I mean really laugh.

*CAPTION WITHIN A CAPTION*


P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said: ↑ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

If you look at your post → (copied _supra_) → you will see that it "EXACTLY" answers your question "Are they civilians or not?" --- AND --- refutes your claim that "the Geneva Accord they are not."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake.  Exactly how irrational can you be?
> ...


The armistice line was to keep Israeli and Egyptian forces separate. The line ran through Palestine and was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary.

So, when a line runs through your country, what side are you not allowed to be on?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:   corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I have to laugh, I mean really laugh.
> ...


The Geneva Accord uses the term "protected persons" because some militants are protected persons and some civilians are not.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:   corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



Link?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



Is Gaza'istan a country?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You have a couple of thingmixed up here. First off, we were talking about Gaza.  And so let's do one at a time; Gaza!



P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice line was to keep Israeli and Egyptian forces separate. The line ran through Palestine and was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary.


*(COMMENT)*

First, you will notice that I made a specific reference to The Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip; which replaced the Gaza–Jericho Agreement.  The boundary that constituted the Gaza Strip inherited from the Gaza–Jericho Agreement --- and again inherited from the Peace Treaty with the Egyptians.  None of which has the restrictive clause its use as a boundary or border [that is an issue under the Permanent Status of Negotiations (PSN)].  The boundary was clarified as:



​
The boundary was agree to by both parties, and remains so until it is changed under the PSN.  And while it is in place, the principles of international law relating to friendly relations and co-operation among States still applies as stated in Posting #427 _supra_.



P F Tinmore said:


> So, when a line runs through your country, what side are you not allowed to be on?
> .


*(COMMENT)*

This is an invalid question because it rest on the premise that the territorial outline in Oslo II "runs through your country."  This premise is not true.  The agreed upon perimeter of the Gaza Strip is what it is.  And it will not change just because the Arab Palestinians do not want to honor the agreement after the fact.

You can insist that the Gaza Strip has no boundary.  But I suggest that it has been there since the time of the Egyptian Military Governorship in 1949; and has evolved into what we have today.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You have a couple of thingmixed up here. First off, we were talking about Gaza.  And so let's do one at a time; Gaza!
> ...


There has never been a treaty defining the armistice line to be a border. It remains an armistice line through Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

Hollie said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Occupation and colonization are inherently aggressive. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



That's a tired, used-up slogan you cut and paste constantly. 

The islamic terrorist border riots are not defensive. Those riots and armed islamic terrorist attacks are calls to gee-had by Islamist clerics. 

Islamist ideology is inherently retrograde and brutish. The israelis have every right to defend themselves from the Islamist gee-had.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 15, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Your claim that Israel is murdering innocent civilians is patently false
> ...



Again with the logical fallacies and the personal attacks.  Clearly you are demonstrating an inability to address the actual content of my posts, so you resort to inaccurate language, appealing to emotion and false accusations of both my claims and my person.

The argument that "Israel is murdering innocent civilians" remains false, regardless of how many logical fallacies you use.  My defense of Israel is not the least bit blind, but a reasoned, well-researched response to international law and facts on the ground. So let's go over what I actually have said: 

1.  Israel is defending a belligerent attack on her border.  (Completely legal).
2.  Israel has used a combination of non-lethal riot control methods and lethal force to do so.  (Completely legal).
3.  Israel has killed combatants.  This accounts for ~85% of those killed.  (Absolutely, without doubt legal).
4.  Israel has killed a small number of non-combatant civilians who have failed to comply with instruction and thus fall under suspicion of activities harmful to the security of Israel.  (Legal.)
5.  Israel has killed non-combatant civilians due to misfire, ricochet, error, or similar circumstances due to their proximity to combatants and those posing a threat to Israel's security. (Legal for Israel -- illegal for Gaza).
6.  Israel's actions are proportionate to the security threat posed.  (Legal).

Yesterday, you attempted to claim that Israel is in breach of the Geneva Conventions.  Rocco and I demonstrated, using documentary evidence from the actual Conventions, that your claim has no basis and that indeed, as outlined above, Israel's actions are well within the parameters of the Conventions and international law governing conflict.  

Today, you have no response to our discussion of objective law as it pertains to Israel or as it pertains to the government of Gaza -- which is demonstrably in breach of said law -- and resort to your typical arguments based on emotive language, false accusations of murder and personal attacks.  Thus, it is patently clear that you are the one arguing from a position of "blindess".  A blind demonization of Israel.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not?



There is no such thing as "settlers".  They are Israeli citizens living on land under Israeli sovereignty or under Israeli control according to treaties and agreements.  There is NO DISTINCTION to be made between some false notion of various types of Israeli citizens.

And, as Rocco has already pointed out, persons who do not participate in the hostilities are non-combatants and are protected under international law.  To attempt to classify Jewish Israeli citizens as not protected is not only glaringly incorrect in law -- *it is a vile and abhorrent way of dehumanizing Israeli Jewish people with express intent to make it morally and legally permissible to kill them.  

I can not possibly overstate this.  You are trying to create a legal construct to permit the murder of Jews.  That is the Arab Palestinian mentality.  It is a call to genocide. 
*


----------



## Shusha (Jun 15, 2018)

And THAT ^^^, right there, Humanity is what we are dealing with at the Gaza/Israel border.  THAT is what the Jewish people are forced to address.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Don't be a bore...   In this respect, I use the term "treaty" as it was defined by the Vienna Convention which in part said:  'treaty' means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation.

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 20142429, member: 21837
There has never been a treaty defining the armistice line to be a border. It remains an armistice line through Palestine.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

The last demarcation was as outline in the Oslo Agreement as I attached in Posting #434.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Don't be a bore...   In this respect, I use the term "treaty" as it was defined by the Vienna Convention which in part said:  'treaty' means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The last demarcation was as outline in the Oslo Agreement as I attached in Posting #434.

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Oslo was not  border treaty.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Oslo was not  border treaty.



So?  What difference does it make what kind of treaty it is?  What difference does it make if its a border or an armistice line?  Are you trying to argue that the law is different for a border and an armistice line? If so, make your point by quoting relevant law.  

Perhaps you are thinking GCIV Article 3?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 15, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Most International Agreements are multipurpose.   There are single-purpose treaties like the test band treaty or the Non-Proliferation Treaty, but the vast majority of the treaties, agreements, accords, etc are multipurpose. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Oslo was not  border treaty.


*(COMMENT)*

The Oslo Accord, just to define what the subject of the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (Oslo I) and  Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip (Oslo II) have many annexes for specific clarifications.  The Map #1 which I attached to Posting #434 outlined the territory affected by the Interim Agreement. 

As you well known, Article V of Oslo I lays out the Permanent Status Negotiations (PSN) and stipulates that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, *borders*, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.

Don't get wound around the axel about what you want the various agreement to say about the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.  Just understand that most of these concerns are subject to the PSN which is cut-off do to the preconditions set by the Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Most International Agreements are multipurpose.   There are single-purpose treaties like the test band treaty or the Non-Proliferation Treaty, but the vast majority of the treaties, agreements, accords, etc are multipurpose.
> ...


What did all that have to do with my post?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



I'm sure you’re not the least bit embarrassed about spamming the board with your usual cut and paste slogans because your attempt at argument was trashed.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Shusha, thats a lovely load of text to deflect from the very simple fact you have been caught out on a lie.

Try and stick to the one thing at a time!

You, know, the one where you have been proven a liar!


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 16, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

It answered the EXACT question...



P F Tinmore said:


> What did all that have to do with my post?


*(COMMENT)*




​I think that you might need to go back and read the post again.

I see you use this response each and every time your post is challenged.  It is an evasive action.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 16, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> It answered the EXACT question...
> ...


OK.


RoccoR said:


> the Vienna Convention which in part said: 'treaty' means an international agreement concluded between States in written form *and governed by international law,*


That said:


RoccoR said:


> Permanent Status Negotiations (PSN) and stipulates that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, *borders*, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.


Jerusalem, settlements, and borders are land/border issues.This brings up some points. The Palestinians have the right to control their land and borders. (That territorial integrity thing under international law.) Does Palestine control its land and borders? De facto, no. De jure, yes. If the Palestinians did not have the right to control their land/borders they would not be at the negotiations table.

Palestine had international borders before the Mandate and they remained after the Mandate left. So you can toss that Mandate Palestine propaganda thing out the window. There has never been a treaty with the Palestinians altering those borders. The armistice lines around Gaza and the West Bank run through Palestine. There are no borders there.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



* The Palestinians have the right to control their land and borders.*

They have land? Link?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



Once again, Tinmore is navigating around his silly "the Treaty of Lausanne created the Magical Kingdom of Pally'land", slogan.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 16, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



You have proven nothing except that your entire 'debate' against Israel is based on emotional arguments having no objective reality in law. Which is simply a demonization of Israel and Israel supporters. 

I provided the applicable law to support my case.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 16, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Yes, all reasonable questions.  Let's examine them; piece by piece.



P F Tinmore said:


> Jerusalem, settlements, and borders are land/border issues.


*(COMMENT)*

This establishes the temporal origin.

•  The specific question of Jerusalem comes into play when General Allenby enters Jerusalem, on 11 December 1917.  In that time perspective → it is 10 month prior to the The Armistice of Mudros, 30 October 1918, which marked the end of hostilities, in the Middle Eastern theatre of operations between the defeated Ottoman Empire and the Allies Powers of in The Great War (World War I).

Notice:  The territorial control of Jerusalem was in the hands of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) well before the end of The Great War.
Elements of the British Egyptian Expeditionary Force and Hejazian Sherifial Forces _(__Prince Feisal)_ capture Damascus on 1 October 1918; coming under the control of the OETA.  The entire territory (Aleppo to Cairo) is under the effective control of the Allied Forces even befor the San Remo Convention; which among other things, plots the future of the former territories of the Ottoman Turkish Empire.  The control of the Middle East does not pass into the hands of the Arab inhabitance under OETA.​
•  By "settlements" → I assume you mean the Area "C" Settlement which are now under full Israeli civil administration and security control.  This would be part of the territory seized by Jordan in 1940, and Annexed by Jordan in 1950.  In 1988, the entire territory of the West Bank _(which includeds Area "C")_ was officially politically and diplomatically abandon the West Bank, effectively leaving it into the Hands of the Israel _(having Occuppied the territory in 1967)_ in what HM King Hussein termed the "Disengagement from the West Bank."

•  By "borders" I assume you mean either:

※  The western portion of Area "B" of the Sykes-Picot Agreement, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

※  The 1967 border, considered by the current Negotiation Affairs Department of the Palestine Liberation Organization, to be along the 1949 Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Line dissolved in 1994 by Treaty, that was effective on 4 June 1967.​
As you can see, the Arab Palestinians did not have control of the territory being discussed.  No matter how you slice it,  Whether you apply law or not, the fact of the matter is that the Arab Palestinains never had anything resembling the a territory they could call theirs.



P F Tinmore said:


> This brings up some points. The Palestinians have the right to control their land and borders. (That territorial integrity thing under international law.)


*(COMMENT)*

YES!  Absolutely true *IF* they sovereignty over any territory.  But you cannot have territorial integrity if you don't have a territory to begin with.



P F Tinmore said:


> Does Palestine control its land and borders? De facto, no. De jure, yes. If the Palestinians did not have the right to control their land/borders they would not be at the negotiations table.


*(COMMENT)*

A qualified YES!  *IF* you refer to Area "A" and the Gaza Strip, *THEN* they might be considered in control of their own land and borders.  *BUT IF* you are referring to the what some factions consider Islamic land → govern under Sharia (law) → with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.  *THEN* no...

Israeli exercises its territorial sovereignty within its boundary; to the exclusion of Arab Palestinians.  Israel controls the functions of the State over the territory it controls; responsible for the duties imposed upon Israel in the care of its constituents.   The Arab Palestinian cannot claim territorial sovereignty over a territory that is under the control of Israel; no matter what "right" they may claim. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine had international borders before the Mandate and they remained after the Mandate left.


*(COMMENT)*

No!  The _(Government of)_ Palestine is that territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied; _(hereinafter described as Palestine)_ → within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.  It is not a product of the inhabitance → but a product of Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renouncement of the rights and titles to the Allied Powers.



P F Tinmore said:


> So you can toss that Mandate Palestine propaganda thing out the window. There has never been a treaty with the Palestinians altering those borders. The armistice lines around Gaza and the West Bank run through Palestine. There are no borders there.


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestine _(in this case)_ = The British Administration ≠ Arab Palestinian self-government.  It does not represent the sovereign entity of the Arab Palestinian.

When you throw-out the Mandate for Palestine and the San Remo Convention, and the interconnecting agreements between the Sykes-Picot Agreement and the Treaty of Lausanne, it is YOU that are ignoring the international laws of that day when the decisions were made and the framework was established.

NOTE:  The Armistice Lines were in existence only up to the point in which the associated Treaties of Peace were enacted.  See Article XII of the Armistice Argeements with Egypt and Jordan with the phrase:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  The Arab Palestinians were neither a party to the Armistice or the Peace Treaty.  And there is no law _(then or now)_ that says they had to be.​
BUT don't blow smoke ... by suggesting the people of the Enemy Occupied Territory  →  the population under the Civil Administration,  →  all the way up to the people who installed Arab Palestinian leaders of today that support the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters that proliferate the Arab Palestinian population have some inside track or moral high ground that casts a doubt what the intention _(by international law)_ of the Allied Powers was in the beginning.  Without question, the intention was the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...


Oslo was not  border treaty.[/QUOTE]







so, which is it ? 

 it _was_ outlined or 

 _NOT_ [as thinmore said].....


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 16, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinian cannot claim territorial sovereignty over a territory that is under the control of Israel; no matter what "right" they may claim.


Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have the right to control their land and borders.


Everything that Rocco said.  But also, from a slightly different perspective:  BOTH the Arab Palestinians (which includes all of Jordan, btw) AND the Jewish Palestinians would have the right to "control their lands and borders".  The Jewish Palestinians (now called Israelis) have successfully met the conditions required for this and therefore DO control land and borders.  The Jordanians have also met the conditions and DO.  The other Arab Palestinians have not.  The "right" to control land and borders is absolutely meaningless if you have no ability to control land and borders.  Now, in the context of this particular thread, the government of Gaza does have the ability to control land and borders.  And does.  Which is why the crossing of said border violates the customary law.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians have the right to control their land and borders.
> ...


Nice speculation.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty.



You say this alot, but its not strictly true.  If I remember correctly, and Rocco can help me out if I misunderstand, occupations can indeed acquire sovereignty depending on the status of the territory prior to the occupation -- ie terra nullius.  (Not that it matters, since Israel's presence in the territory is not strictly an occupation).


----------



## Shusha (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Well, there are only two ways to go here, since I am extrapolating directly from your own claims of "rights".  Either your claim to Arab rights is also speculation.  Or neither of the claims are.  But to say that Arab rights are true in fact, while Jewish rights are merely speculation is disingenuous at best.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 16, 2018)

Shusha said:


> on the status of the territory prior to the occupation -- ie terra nullius.


Is that like a land without people for a people without a land?


----------



## Shusha (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > on the status of the territory prior to the occupation -- ie terra nullius.
> ...



Oh, the irony.  From the person claiming that the Jewish people does not and can not have a sovereign territory.

And obviously, I was pointing how your silly slogans misrepresent actual law, not claiming that Arab Palestinians have no rights to sovereign territory.  Remember I am the one supporting the rights of both peoples.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The Arab Palestinian cannot claim territorial sovereignty over a territory that is under the control of Israel; no matter what "right" they may claim.
> ...


Another of your goofy slogans in the absence of a coherent comment.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The Arab Palestinian cannot claim territorial sovereignty over a territory that is under the control of Israel; no matter what "right" they may claim.
> ...



Too bad that wasn’t the thought process in 1967.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 16, 2018)

RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_

What!



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Shusha is NOT forming a theory.   Shusha is NOT engaging in conjecture.   

Israel has taken a series of measures with a view to enhance the border security and immigration control systems to fight against international terrorism the infiltration of Arab Palestinians that threaten the citizens, the comfort, and protection which the Jewish National Home provides.  These intrusion and interdiction measures and the defenses mounted with the introduction of effective mechanisms in the border controls are not unlike many controls employed by other members of the UN; including members of the Arab League. 

*(SIDEBAR)*

I am appreciative of the position you hold relative to the connection between "Sovereignty" and the People under "Occupation."   Your argument is that Sovereignty (rights and title over the territory) in an occupied territory are not vested in Israel (as the occupying power). As you have explained many times before, it is the inalienability of sovereignty through actual or threatened use of force.
Under the contemporary international law, self-determination and sovereignty are vested in the people held under occupation.  This would have a ring of truth if not for one reason.  Granting the Arab Palestinian constituents, which have conducted international criminal activity _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_ does not do so at the expense of the Israeli.

Granting or recognizing the Arab Palestinians sovereignty is NOT proper if it comes at the expense of Israeli safety and security.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 16, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_
> 
> What!
> ...


Your post looked good until you got here:


RoccoR said:


> Granting the Arab Palestinian constituents, which have conducted international criminal activity


You say that all of the time without specifying what those international criminal activities might be. And how would that negate their rights?

The Palestinians are under brutal occupation 24/7 yet their resistance is expected to be pristine.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are under brutal occupation 24/7 yet their resistance is expected to be pristine.



Not at all.  Their "resistance" is expected to meet standards of law - the primary one of which is the standard of non-violent, peaceful negotiation.  Where violence in necessary (and it is NOT for the Arab Palestinians) an adherence to laws and conventions which protect civilians as far as is possible and reasonable is expected.  

Incidentally, the same is expected of Israel.


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 17, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well --- let's just see if we can expand this without just writing the criminal code.  Most of it is common sense.



P F Tinmore said:


> Your post looked good until you got here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians are not really under a brutal occupation.  The Administration is under a "brutal occupation."  Israel the uses the force necessary to maintain law and order; as it applies in these complex security situations that are increasingly more belligerent and violent.

The criminal activity_ (inside the territories and with no cross-border element)_ comes in five general activity categories:

✪  Offense committed by the Arab Palestinian which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel).

✪  Cases where the Arab Palestinian is guilty of espionage.

✪  Serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.

✪  Intentional offences which caused:  

•  With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
•  With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​
✪  Intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility.​
This is not all-inclusive.  It does not address the Arab Palestinian calls for all forms of propaganda,  which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha (Jun 17, 2018)

Ah, RoccoR, you are so much "meaner" than I am.  I only want the Arab Palestinians to stop targeting civilians and to stop indiscriminate attacks which impact civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 17, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Well --- let's just see if we can expand this without just writing the criminal code.  Most of it is common sense.
> ...


That is all in response to Israel's illegal, violent, aggression against the Palestinians.

Are the Palestinians only allowed to sit on their hands?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



Link?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 17, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I can hardly believe you asked this...

*BLUF:*  There is no avenue approved by the Arab Palestinians for Peace.  Not because they are no alternatives; but, because the Arab Palestinian rules them out.



P F Tinmore said:


> [
> That is all in response to Israel's illegal, violent, aggression against the Palestinians.
> 
> Are the Palestinians only allowed to sit on their hands?


*(COMMENT)*

When I read this, three thoughts _(and associated questions)_ immediately came to mind; the imagery was vivid _(like a bolt of lightning_):

•  In Posting #467, there are five areas taken either from the Fourth Geneva Convention or from the one of the conventions in which the international community has elaborated 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts _(as the UN is fond of saying, "in all its forms")._  Are you suggesting that the Arab Palestinian should be allowed to engage in any _(or all)_ of the prohibited criminal categories?

•  Your question leads me to believe that the Arab Palestinians would prefer to continue the path and follow of violence _(armed struggle being "the only way to liberate Palestine")_.

•  When The 1967 Khartoum Resolutions _("no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations")_ were announced, the Arab League pretty much ruled out the practices outlined in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.​
There is no real advocate for peace, mutual recognition or good faith negotiations on the Arab Palestinian.


_"Jihad and the Armed Resistance 
is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, 
and the restoration of all the rights, 
together with, of course,
 all forms of political and diplomatic struggle 
 including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; 
with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle."_
_→    Khaled Meshal (2012)_​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 17, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


I have posted many.

Do try to keep up.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 17, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I can hardly believe you asked this...
> ...


All of the Palestinian's responses are to prevent or reverse Israeli terrorist and illegal acts against them.

Who are the illegal terrorists here?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Nice duck. Your usual retreat.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



Who are the illegal terrorists here (as opposed to _legal_ islamic terrorists)?

You can easily find them. They are the ones heeding the call to gee-had by bearded loons who represent your "religion". You can find them attempting to breach the Israeli border. They're flying kites with swastikas.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 17, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Why do you clutter the board with stupid posts?


----------



## RoccoR (Jun 17, 2018)

RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Oh, for heaven's sake.  You have that exactly backward.



P F Tinmore said:


> [
> All of the Palestinian's responses are to prevent or reverse Israeli terrorist and illegal acts against them.
> 
> Who are the illegal terrorists here?


*(COMMENT)*

Israeli's never:

•  Hijacked Commercial Airliners full of passengers.
•  Stormed Olympic Residences and killed athletes.
•  Pirated a Mediterranian Passenger Vessel, killing a wheelchair-bound tourist, rolling them overboard.
•  Captured a coastal bus, lined-up the passengers _(including 12 children)_ and machine-gunned them.
*  Hijacked a commercial airliner and killed an unarmed passenger; opening the door of the plane, shooting the passenger in the head, and throwing the body onto the tarmac.
•  Let loose a suicide bomber into a restaurant filled with civilians.
•  Kidnapped teenagers and murdered them.
•  Use a vehicle as  a ramming weapon into markets and pedestrians.
•  Enter and killed unarmed people at prayer in a holy place.
•  Engaged in drive-by shootings of family vehicles.
•  etc etc etc​
This is not counting the thousands of rockets and mortars attacks.  This sounds more like a standard practice for the Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Nice duck. You do get angry and emotive when you're unable to defend your claims.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> All of the Palestinian's responses are to prevent or reverse Israeli terrorist and illegal acts against them.
> 
> Who are the illegal terrorists here?



Well, you make two rather egregious errors here.  The first is that actions such as the "Great March of Return", suicide bombings, rockets and mortars, stabbings and car rammings, kite bombs, and other terrorist actions have efficacy in obtaining what the Arab Palestinians want (either what they actually want or what they claim to want).

The second is that a "just cause" creates conditions where illegal actions become legal.

Amended to add:  There is a third error here.  That Israel's actions are terrorist or illegal.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jun 17, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake.  You have that exactly backward.
> ...


You left out the most important part.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered palestines
> ...



*All of the Palestinian's responses are to prevent or reverse Israeli terrorist and illegal acts against them.*

How would Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians accomplish either goal?


----------



## Shusha (Jun 17, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> You left out the most important part.



The most important part being that the mere presence of Jews is "aggression" and therefore legal and moral cause to kill them?


----------



## member (Jun 17, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...










*"...They're flying kites with swastikas."*




...they 

 and  *(*he 

*)* 

 don't care.......

wonder if all those kites say "made in china?" where did they get all those kites comes from?





 is there a sweat-shop kite factory at the camp or an under-ground one ?



they seem to have artistic skills - drawing or sewing 

 symbols onto kites....or...did they get a delivery 

 of them from amazon.....?


----------



## Humanity (Jun 17, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Sadly, you are way off the mark Shusha!

I am not 'emotionally' involved, I make no "emotional arguments" I prefer to leave that particular specialty to Team Israel.

The sheer 'emotional arrogance' of Team Israel in believing that Israel is above everyone and everything is one of those historical traits that has built such a dislike of Jews and a dislike of Israel.

The sooner that Team Israel steps down from its high horse are stops defending the indefensible the sooner progress can be made.


----------



## Shusha (Jun 17, 2018)

Humanity said:


> The sooner that Team Israel steps down from its high horse are stops defending the indefensible the sooner progress can be made.



Defend the indefensible?!

Do you want to know what is indefensible?  This is indefensible:  .

Do you want to know what is indefensible?  This is indefensible:  



What else?  Your teammate P F Tinmore who insists it is permissible to kill immigrants and their descendants because they are not protected persons under the law -- well, you know, as long as they are Jews.  



The LAW is perfectly defensible.  Current international law concerning civilians and protected persons holds the standard that States are permitted to use force, including lethal force, to protect their citizens and defend their sovereign territory.  The presence of civilians does not limit the use of such force, including lethal force, nor does presence of civilians render combatants or military objectives immune to force, including force which is lethal. Further, the responsibility for ensuring the safety of civilians rests with ALL Parties to the conflict and rests especially with those who, due to their proximity and leadership (aka government), can direct the civilian population to safe areas and away from military objectives. THAT is the current legal standard and therefore the ONLY standard you can hold Israel to.  

Now, wishing to change the LAW is also perfectly defensible.  If you believe the law is inadequate, neglectful, or inhumane it is perfectly acceptable to demand a change to that law.  If you want to change the law to state that the presence of civilians renders a military objective or combatants immune to attack -- you can certainly make your argument. But you can't hold Israel to a standard of law which does not yet exist.

You seem to want to make changes to the law to increase protection of civilians.  Its a noble goal and not one I would argue against, in principle.  The question, though, is HOW would you do this?  Both how would you frame the language of such a law and how would you put it to practical effect?  Be specific.  Don't give me a lazy answer like, "Stop killing people".  The law and its practical application need to address how to respond to people, groups or governments who pose a threat to the safety of your citizens and to the integrity of your sovereignty.

I'll start you off with a couple of suggestions:  Economic sanctions?  Blockades?  Defensive weaponry?  Walls?  Removing civilians from areas of military activity?  Riot control measures?  Drones?  Targeted attacks?  Arrest and detention?  Intelligence-gathering?  Snipers?  Skunk water?  Dropping of leaflets and social media coverage?  


If you can't approach this in a logical, objective way which applies to every State, then you most certainly ARE acting on and arguing from emotion.  And your emotions are heavily biased against the Jewish people.


----------



## Humanity (Jun 17, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > The sooner that Team Israel steps down from its high horse are stops defending the indefensible the sooner progress can be made.
> ...



This is simple deflection!

"I am not going to deal with what you are saying, I am just going to deflect with other shit"...

Yep, classic zionut tactic...

Whatever else you wrote, sorry, didn't get past the deflections!

C- must try harder


----------



## Shusha (Jun 17, 2018)

Humanity said:


> This is simple deflection!



Its not deflection.  I've been asking you since the first moment that you joined this thread to discuss the responsibility of the government of Gaza with respect to the conflict, and specifically concerning the protection of civilians.  The conflict does not happen in a vacuum with only Israel and empty space.  

You have ignored me at every turn.  Just like you ignored the rest of my post.  I can only conclude that you have no reasonable response which won't reveal your emotional biases.


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## Shusha (Jun 17, 2018)

And as for deflection in general, go ahead.  Ask me a question.  I won't shy away from answering.  I won't ignore you.  I will address it honestly. I'd appreciate the same from you.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 17, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > This is simple deflection!
> ...



You brought up valid facts that can’t be disputed so he prefers to ignore them. Consider the source. It bothers him that Israel exists


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## Shusha (Jun 18, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You brought up valid facts that can’t be disputed so he prefers to ignore them. Consider the source. It bothers him that Israel exists



Yeah, I know.  I just find it particularly unnerving that people like him portray themselves as being objective and unbiased and believe equally in the rights of both peoples, when they are just the vanilla brand of anti-Israel (anti-Jewish).

And its frustrating to be on a debate board with people who are so stuck on the "Israel is bad, its all Israel's fault, only Israel is responsible for fixing it, Arab Palestinians can do no wrong" train that they are unable to see the landscape they are driving through, let alone articulate their own arguments.  That is what frustrates me.  That they can't articulate beyond one-liners and slogans and ignoring my posts.

And I get that he sees me in somewhat the same way -- that I am so stuck on the "Israel can do no wrong" that I refuse to see the other side.  Which, btw, I don't thing is true -- I see plenty of places where Israel does wrong but I never get to argue any of those points because we can't get there from here.

Let's say we actually wanted to discuss Israel's actions in Gaza over the past couple months.  And we wanted to discuss whether or not it was within the limits of current international law and standards.  We'd have to look at those standards and then compare those standards to Israel's orders and actions.  Its the only reasonable way to approach the problem. 

But we can't get there from a place of "Israel murders innocent civilians in a peaceful protest".  Why?  Because framing the problem in that way assumes Israel's guilt from the outset and mischaracterizes the conflict and the participants at the border.  So before we can get to discussing the problem, I have to address the assumption of guilt and the mischaracterization.  That assumption of guilt and mischaracterization of Arab Palestinians is the core of the anti-Israel (anti-Jewish) emotional argument.  

That is why no one hears me argue the places where Israel was wrong.  (For example, the very journalist Humanity brought up in one of his posts).

And frankly, this is exactly the same problem that Israel and TI has with the UN.  The UN doesn't begin from a place of law and international standards -- they begin with the assumption of guilt on Israel's part and that Israel's actions can be judged and determined without context.


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## admonit (Jun 18, 2018)

Shusha said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > You brought up valid facts that can’t be disputed so he prefers to ignore them. Consider the source. It bothers him that Israel exists
> ...


Your expectation of any honest debates with these people is very naive. Actually all of them are:
- either immoral
- or stupid
- or ignorant
- or any combination of above.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 18, 2018)

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



I’m agreeing with you. That was my point


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 18, 2018)

Shusha said:


> the presence of civilians renders a military objective or combatants immune to attack


Israel destroyed 18,000 civilian homes under the guise that they were military objectives. Yet they only killed a few hundred militants. You probably did not notice that those numbers do not add up.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 18, 2018)

Shusha said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > You brought up valid facts that can’t be disputed so he prefers to ignore them. Consider the source. It bothers him that Israel exists
> ...



I understand what you mean but on the other hand you are wasting your time. It’s the same mentality that insists that Egypt did not block the Straits and that the U.N. didn’t leave. 
  Prior to 1967 they were denied access to their Holy Sites. When asked why Israel would agree to this there is no response. Just take pleasure in the fact that E. Jerusalem will never fall into the hands of those Palestinian Savages and Israel will not give up any more territory


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## Slyhunter (Jun 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > the presence of civilians renders a military objective or combatants immune to attack
> ...


I'm tired of this Bulldoze the whole place already. I don't care.


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## Shusha (Jun 18, 2018)

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...




I know. Yet I continue to live in hope.


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## Shusha (Jun 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > the presence of civilians renders a military objective or combatants immune to attack
> ...



You haven't stated what event you are referring to, eliminating the context.  I'm going to respond assuming you mean Operation Protective Edge, if that's incorrect, please clarify.

Your error is in misunderstanding the legal standard of _proportionality_ .  The legal standard is not measured in number of homes destroyed or number of combatants killed or any other simple tit-for-tat silliness.  The legal standard is:  the minimum necessary military action to achieve the military objective. 

What is the military objective for Israel with respect to Gaza?


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 18, 2018)

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Don’t  It’s a waste of your time and breath


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## P F Tinmore (Jun 18, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Good question. Bombing civilian homes and killing civilians without the presence of militants looks like targeting civilians.


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## Shusha (Jun 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Good question. Bombing civilian homes and killing civilians without the presence of militants looks like targeting civilians.




Lol.  Love how you say it is a good question and then entirely ignore it.  You are doing EXACTLY what I complained about -- which is attacking the problem from an assumption of wrong-doing and evil from Israel rather than from a place of standards of law.

Go back to the good question.  What is the military goal for Israel with respect to Gaza?


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## Hollie (Jun 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > the presence of civilians renders a military objective or combatants immune to attack
> ...



I was expecting you to provide the relevant, anticipated ratio of homes destroyed by being put in a war zone by Islamic terrorists to the expected number of Islamic terrorists whacked.

So, what’s the ratio?

Link?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Jun 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Which homes were the militants hiding in?


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## Hollie (Jun 18, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



On the other hand, Islamic terrorists waging war from civilian areas looks like Islamic terrorists using civilians as human shields.


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## member (Jun 18, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...





what about the electricity? ...is it that you have 

 no choice but to keep them up and running ?  is this enabling/helping terrorists dig their underground tunnels and put together their bomb-kites?



 it's an odd situation to be in [providing electric to 

 terrorists--the same ones who fly bomb-kites over to your side] ??


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## theliq (Jun 18, 2018)

iamwhatiseem said:


> *impartial....United Nations*
> 
> Those two words don't even belong in the same book, much less the same sentence.
> Hilarious


Funny that,considering back in 1948 when Israel was given Statehood the Yanks and Zionists were all over the UN like a rash....Now they realise what a mistake that was as Ziostan and their Door Mats the US are now ROUGE STATES and are being and always will be LEPER STATES of the World,your Zionist commentary is Banal to say the least


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## theliq (Jun 18, 2018)

Anathema said:


> Throw rocks at soldiers- get shot.
> 
> Support people throwing rocks at soldiers- get shot.
> 
> Investigation done.


Throw rocks at Yanks...Great

Throw rocks at Zionist Terrorists...Great


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## theliq (Jun 18, 2018)

Hossfly said:


> LA RAM FAN said:
> 
> 
> > cant have that,cant have an IMPARTIAL non biased objective investigation Into Israeal murdering 61 palestines,nope. Our government here in the states has so much freaking power its disgusting. when is the rest of the world going to stand up to these two corrupt nations?  .
> ...


Really Hossie,you should know better,Sadly you don't...Why defend the Indefenceble sic


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## skye (Jun 19, 2018)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > LA RAM FAN said:
> ...




Hossfly is fine!  he is the best!

Unlike you

Cheers


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



It bothers me not!


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## Linkiloo (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


Finally you come out of the closet and explain your anti-semitism. "historical traits that has built such a dislike of Jews"...all said in the name of humanity. There is just one thing...what traits caused hatred of Jews before Israel?


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

Linkiloo said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Hysterical...

Even editing my comment, and badly by the way, you could have tried to score more points if you had the intellect, to suit your own agenda actually shows your inept hasbara training!


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## Anathema (Jun 19, 2018)

theliq said:


> Throw rocks at Yanks... Great
> 
> Throw rocks at Zionist Terrorists... Great



So long as you realize and accept the consequences are likely to be the same - high speed perforation of body cavities by metal projectiles causing serious if not fatal injury.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Yes it does. I enjoy every minute of it


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



Ah yes, I forgot, you know everything! 

I am happy that Israel exists, as can be seen in many of my posts over the months/years...

Just a shame that you are such a hateful piece of shit isn't it!


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Ah yes, In forgot, you know everything !
  Example;  When asked about negotiations put on the table by Palestinians that Israel rejected there is no response. 
 Leave it to the Foul Mouth Pro  Palestinian Team to initiate four letter words. You are such a foul disgusting piece of Shit


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## Shusha (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hysterical...
> 
> Even editing my comment, and badly by the way, ...



Oh what, now?  You are claiming we are misrepresenting you when we quote your exact words?  Is it that you didn't MEAN to type "Jews"?  Or that you totally meant to talk about the "historical traits of Jews" but didn't mean it THAT way?  Or was it a typo where you meant to write "zionuts" but your keyboard slipped and you typed "Jews" by accident?  

We see you.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hysterical...
> ...



He is one of the most fucking Hypocrites there are.  Accusing Israel of not wanting to achieve peace ( inferring that the Palestinians do) and when asked what the Palestinians have proposed that Israel rejected or why Israel should allow them to build a bridge within the “ 67 Borders” with the Palestinians in full control there is no response.


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



Foul mouthed?

No dummy, just honest! Speak as you find and you are a hateful piece of shit!


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## Hossfly (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Waaaaaaaaah!


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



You are the Hateful piece of SHIT. Your post proves that !!


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Hysterical...
> ...



"We see you"???

Ooohh really?

Got news for you Shusha... You are hardly the moderate zionut that you portray yourself to be are you!

Perhaps you would like to join your team mate, iloveisrael, in showing yourself as a hater of everyone and every thing that ISN'T Israel, that ISN'T Jewish?

Or is it, perhaps, that your comprehension of English is lacking? No, I suspect not, it's just a rather twisted comprehension of a zionut who really cannot accept any slight against Israel.

And, for clarity, I know what I typed, it is your 'victimhood' that is driving your decision to choose not to read it properly.


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Are you some kind of fucking mind reader of something? You certainly aren't very good at it are you!

"inferring" That is hilarious!

Care to show me where I 'inferred' what you state?

At least I have a clear conscience and can state that I am happy that Israel exists and condemn the murder of Jews as well as Palestinians...

You can't you evil prick!


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



Wrong dumbfuck!

I have clearly stated that the murder of Jews and Muslims is equally wrong...

YOU CAN'T!

Sorry, who is a hateful piece of shit again?


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

Hossfly said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



Oh Tex, don't go pissing the bed AGAIN!

You know yo mamma gonna spank yo ass!


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## Shusha (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Well, for clarity, why don't you elaborate for us on the "historic traits of Jews that make people hate Jews". What would those traits be?


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



What?? You mean you are unaware of the history of the Jews?

Shame on you!


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## Shusha (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Not asking for the history of the Jews. Asking for you to tell me about Jewish traits.


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...




Not going to get a response from that piece of SHIT. All he knows is hate


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



You are a Hateful piece of Shit. Show me where I stated that INNOCENT Muslims deserve to get murdered


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


 
Please show us where either of us inferred that we hate everyone who criticizes Israel , big mouth


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Show us where either of us have condoned the murder of any Innocent Civilians. Take your Prick and shove it in your mouth; you’ll feel less frustrated.


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Check out a search engine, I think it's called Google...

A brief search there will give you all the information you need going back millennia!

Fascinating reading.


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Another dumbfuck fail by ILI

You mind reading powers are as shit as Israel declaring nuclear weapons!


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



You know ILI it's not what you say it's often what you DON'T say that shows you are a really nasty piece of shit! Go back and check out some of the previous comments... You will see for yourself!


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## fncceo (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



I’m more curious to hear your opinions on what constitutes a ‘Jewish Trait’. 

Speak up, don’t be scared.  We probably won’t raise your rent.


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## Humanity (Jun 19, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



To be fair....

I would rather have my prick in my mouth than be you with Nutandyahoos prick rammed down your fucking throat whilst you stick your tongue up his ass!

I have already responded to your other question fuckwit!


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## fncceo (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



That was far too much of an insight into your fantasy life.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


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## LA RAM FAN (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


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## ILOVEISRAEL (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



No you haven’t ; You Prick!  Tell us exactly what the Palestinians have proposed that Israel rejected and why the Palestinians should have their bridge on Israeli  Land with them having full control . Now, SUCK on it !!


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## Shusha (Jun 19, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Check out a search engine, I think it's called Google...
> 
> A brief search there will give you all the information you need going back millennia!
> 
> Fascinating reading.



Oh wow.  Thank you SO much for that.  I found a lovely little article about Jewish traits from 1946.  So helpful.


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## theliq (Jun 19, 2018)

skye said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Hoss is a Great man and a friend,the really wonderful thing about him is,he is honest and as straight as an arrow...we may disagree on some things but I respect him....UNLIKE YOU WHO IS A CROOKED AS A DOGS HIND LEG...you opinion of me is no longer relevant,all you have is a smiling face


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## skye (Jun 19, 2018)

theliq said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...




bwahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa too funny ^^^


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## theliq (Jun 19, 2018)

skye said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...


Skye,Really...All you have is a Crooked Smile Left   


your vid and comments were very immature,for someone your age


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