# Tesla Semi



## mamooth

Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.

This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi

300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.

Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.

Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.


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## TheOldSchool

No gear shifting.  That’s a huge plus.


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## westwall

Ahhh, the Ponzi scheme continues.  How wonderful....


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## mamooth

westwall said:


> Ahhh, the Ponzi scheme continues.  How wonderful....



Investors would love to see the secret knowledge that you and nobody else seemingly possesses. Why don't you show it to us?


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## Zander




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## westwall

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the Ponzi scheme continues.  How wonderful....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Investors would love to see the secret knowledge that you and nobody else seemingly possesses. Why don't you show it to us?
Click to expand...








It's no secret, Tesla has had how many Quarters in the black?  One?  Two?    They lost 600 million last Quarter.  The only way to keep that sinking ship afloat is to get more suckers to keep it above water.  They aren't giving more cash for the products already on offer, so you have to come up with something "new". 

Same old game, same old system, just the newest bunch of suckers.


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## mamooth

westwall said:


> It's no secret, Tesla has had how many Quarters in the black?  One?  Two?    They lost 600 million last Quarter.  The only way to keep that sinking ship afloat is to get more suckers to keep it above water.  They aren't giving more cash for the products already on offer, so you have to come up with something "new".



And how is that a Ponzi scheme? You don't seem to understand the meaning of the term. How is Tesla paying off old investors with new investor money?


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## westwall

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's no secret, Tesla has had how many Quarters in the black?  One?  Two?    They lost 600 million last Quarter.  The only way to keep that sinking ship afloat is to get more suckers to keep it above water.  They aren't giving more cash for the products already on offer, so you have to come up with something "new".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And how is that a Ponzi scheme? You don't seem to understand the meaning of the term. How is Tesla paying off old investors with new investor money?
Click to expand...








A Ponzi scheme survives by getting new suckers in to prop up the scam.  Tesla has had one or two quarters in its entire life where it wasn't in the red.  It is a money loser on a grand scale that should have closed its doors years ago.  musk figured out how to foist off his losses on to the American Taxpayer, in that one area he is truly a genius, but to keep that dream alive he must constantly have new products to keep the cash flowing in.  If all he had were his original products, which he isn't even producing at the rate he claimed he would, and not by a long shot at that, he would be toast because they have sold out.  Anyone who wants one has either bought it or given their deposit.  

So, he must seek new suckers.  They don't like what he's already got, so he comes up with something new.


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## MarathonMike

mamooth said:


> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.


Wow I would love to see the battery array. I can't believe it can tow 80,000 lbs at highway speeds for 500 miles. With that much stored power I also think overheating over long duration hauls in hot weather will be a problem. Very impressive nonetheless.


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## westwall

MarathonMike said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow I would love to see the battery array. I can't believe it can tow 80,000 lbs at highway speeds for 500 miles. With that much stored power I also think overheating over long duration hauls in hot weather will be a problem. Very impressive nonetheless.
Click to expand...








Just imagine the toxic mess when it is involved in an accident.


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## Zander

Here is a chart of Tesla's losses each year. In  2017 their losses will exceed $800 million as well....They lost $620 million in the 3rd quarter of 2017 alone. 

The bigger problem is once BMW, MBZ, Audi, Ford etc, start building electric cars, Tesla is done. Those people know how to build a car.


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## mamooth

westwall said:


> A Ponzi scheme survives by getting new suckers in to prop up the scam.



So any new business that invests money to grow is running a Ponzi scheme? Fascinating. It appears Tesla shouldn't have built that gigafactory, because it hurt the quarterly earnings report.

Tesla won't turn profitable until 2020: Musk

Wall Street was very aware Tesla would not be earning money soon. The stock price is based on expected future earnings.


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## Old Yeller

Best part is you can stand up while driving it.  You have to pay $250K now to order one?  and wait 2 years....ouch.


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## Zander

The problem is not that these are electric cars, it is that Tesla really doesn't know how to build a vehicle.


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## westwall

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Ponzi scheme survives by getting new suckers in to prop up the scam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So any new business that invests money to grow is running a Ponzi scheme? Fascinating. It appears Tesla shouldn't have built that gigafactory, because it hurt the quarterly earnings report.
> 
> Tesla won't turn profitable until 2020: Musk
> 
> Wall Street was very aware Tesla would not be earning money soon. The stock price is based on expected future earnings.
Click to expand...








A legitimate business turns a profit.  A legitimate business doesn't need to go out and get new "investors" to keep the plant open.  A legitimate business actually produces its product ON TIME.  Something that tesla has never done.


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## mamooth

westwall said:


> A legitimate business turns a profit.  A legitimate business doesn't need to go out and get new "investors" to keep the plant open.  A legitimate business actually produces its product ON TIME.  Something that tesla has never done.



So Amazon isn't a legitimate business? After all, it took them like, 20 years to make a profit.


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## Shrimpbox

Couldn’t this be a case of don’t look over here look at this shiny object.

I learned today from a dot guy you can’t use water on a tesla car fire. I said what do you use then? Something that takes oxygen out of the air? Hope you aren’t caught in an overturned tesla vehicle on fire.

There is no info on the truck batteries. There is no price target. Delivery dates are fungible. Charging stations are nonexistent. Charging times are not available. Could ISIS have designed a better truck to commit terror with. Trust but verify.


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## Viacheslav

Zander said:


> The problem is not that these are electric cars, it is that Tesla really doesn't know how to build a vehicle.


I think they know how build vehicle, because electric car is not more difficult than a trolleybus, but without wires and with a battery and main problem is a battery.


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## Old Rocks

Zander said:


> The problem is not that these are electric cars, it is that Tesla really doesn't know how to build a vehicle.


Since over 90% of the buyers of Tesla's state they would buy another one, looks to me as if Tesla is building a pretty good car. But then, 'Conservatives' cannot stand the idea of an American car, built in America, being one of the best and most popular cars in the world.


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## Marion Morrison

Don't count on any military contracts, just sayin'.

"Maximum 500 mile range". It is teh funny!

Don't count on any real truck drivers purchasing.


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## Old Rocks

Oh yes, and also;


1.9 seconds 0-60   4.2 seconds 0-100  top end 250+ mph   range 620 miles 

Something to relax in after a day of driving that semi.


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## Marion Morrison

Is there a way to get from Dothan to Baltimore without driving 500 miles?

Why yes! Plane!


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## Old Rocks

Marion Morrison said:


> Don't count on any military contracts, just sayin'.
> 
> "Maximum 500 mile range". It is teh funny!
> 
> Don't count on any real truck drivers purchasing.


Just sayin' that you are full of shit. Plenty of use for the military for that truck in the states.


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## Marion Morrison

Old Rocks said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't count on any military contracts, just sayin'.
> 
> "Maximum 500 mile range". It is teh funny!
> 
> Don't count on any real truck drivers purchasing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just sayin' that you are full of shit. Plenty of use for the military for that truck in the states.
Click to expand...


Yeah, umm, that thing's not making it from Quantico to Fort Irwin, no sir! Not by a long shot.


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## Old Rocks

You mean that the present semi's make that trip without stopping anywhere along the way? LOL


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## Marion Morrison

Forget Tesla! I can make a truck with a motorcycle engine and gears!  50 mpg baby!

Hey yeah, why is they don't use a little diesel and large electric motor for OTR hauling?

They do with trains.


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## Zander

Old Rocks said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is not that these are electric cars, it is that Tesla really doesn't know how to build a vehicle.
> 
> 
> 
> Since over 90% of the buyers of Tesla's state they would buy another one, looks to me as if Tesla is building a pretty good car. But then, 'Conservatives' cannot stand the idea of an American car, built in America, being one of the best and most popular cars in the world.
Click to expand...


Stop projecting your own hatred on to me, I think electric cars are terrific. 

 I just see the handwriting on the wall. Businesses need to be PROFITABLE to survive.


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## jon_berzerk

neat but has a lot of challenges to overcome 

a diesel on a single tank gets around 900 miles as one problem to overcome 

sounds like it cant hitch up the traditional trailer which would render it almost useless 

another hurtle to overcome 

sounded like in the article they do not have a scale model as of yet 

i million mile warranty sound good though 

however many diesel cabs can get a several year and million mile warranty


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## jon_berzerk

Zander said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is not that these are electric cars, it is that Tesla really doesn't know how to build a vehicle.
> 
> 
> 
> Since over 90% of the buyers of Tesla's state they would buy another one, looks to me as if Tesla is building a pretty good car. But then, 'Conservatives' cannot stand the idea of an American car, built in America, being one of the best and most popular cars in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop projecting your own hatred on to me, I think electric cars are terrific.
> 
> I just see the handwriting on the wall. Businesses need to be PROFITABLE to survive.
Click to expand...



neat idea lots of hurtles to overcome


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## mamooth

Shrimpbox said:


> learned today from a dot guy you can’t use water on a tesla car fire.



This article says the opposite.

Tesla Model S fire vs 35 firefighters – watch impressive operation after a high-speed crash
---
“If the high voltage battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is bent, twisted, cracked, or breached in any way, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. DO NOT extinguish with a small amount of water. Always establish or request an additional water supply.”
---



> I said what do you use then? Something that takes oxygen out of the air? Hope you aren’t caught in an overturned tesla vehicle on fire.



Check the article. The battery fire ... didn't spread beyond the front of the battery. But hey, that's just the real world. How can it compare to internet rumors?


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## mamooth

jon_berzerk said:


> a diesel on a single tank gets around 900 miles as one problem to overcome



But only 20% of the fleet goes more than 250 miles a day. The other 80% makes a circuit around the local area, and then parks in the company yard overnight, where they can be charged.

Nobody said the current Tesla Semi or something similar can replace every semi. Just 80% of them.


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## jon_berzerk

mamooth said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> a diesel on a single tank gets around 900 miles as one problem to overcome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But only 20% of the fleet goes more than 250 miles a day. The other 80% makes a circuit around the local area, and then parks in the company yard overnight, where they can be charged.
> 
> Nobody said the current Tesla Semi or something similar can replace every semi. Just 80% of them.
Click to expand...



*But only 20% of the fleet goes more than 250 miles a day.*

--LOL

any self respecting operator who want to make any kind of a living

will go 500 + a day

--LOL

*Nobody said the current Tesla Semi or something similar can replace every semi. Just 80% of them.*


im not knocking the electric 

but you are not even close 

--L<OL


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## Shrimpbox

You know big tooth, you are right. Copious quantities of water. 35 firefighters, eight vehicles, and expensive and extensive respiratory gear paid for by the taxpayers. Evs are more dangerous, more expensive to prepare for, and much more toxic to first responders. If you just read a little farther you would have known this but I realize that is not your skill set.


Putting out a Tesla Model S fire is pretty hard


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## Shrimpbox

Oh my, another reason to own one of these world saving cars. You get to pay higher insurance rates. The con continues.
https://jalopnik.com/aaa-raises-insurance-rates-on-tesla-vehicles-1795814904


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## Old Rocks

Well now, since many models of the Tesla have the performance of high end sports cars at highway speeds, they will have the same kind of insurance problems as those cars.


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## Shrimpbox

Due to a high frequency of claims and costly repairs........

You didn’t even read the link did you rocks? I know you are so smart you don’t have to.


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## Slash

jon_berzerk said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> a diesel on a single tank gets around 900 miles as one problem to overcome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But only 20% of the fleet goes more than 250 miles a day. The other 80% makes a circuit around the local area, and then parks in the company yard overnight, where they can be charged.
> 
> Nobody said the current Tesla Semi or something similar can replace every semi. Just 80% of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *But only 20% of the fleet goes more than 250 miles a day.*
> 
> --LOL
> 
> any self respecting operator who want to make any kind of a living
> 
> will go 500 + a day
> 
> --LOL
> 
> *Nobody said the current Tesla Semi or something similar can replace every semi. Just 80% of them.*
> 
> 
> im not knocking the electric
> 
> but you are not even close
> 
> --L<OL
Click to expand...


Not really.  I know a LOT of drivers who'd prefer not to be over the road.   They do routes to local farms or stores and enjoy being home every night.  

 500 miles is a bit above average for a day as it is.  Remember it's not all doing 65 on the highway.  There's pickup, city driving, bathroom breaks.  With the 70 hour a week restriction, 3000 miles a week is about the max any company will expect out of their drivers.  2500 is more realistic (350ish a day).   Really the only people I see getting slowed down is team drivers.   

Of course Tesla also showed off their mega charger.  400 miles in a half hour charge.   So that kind of ends that worry right there.


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## Slash

Zander said:


> Here is a chart of Tesla's losses each year. In  2017 their losses will exceed $800 million as well....They lost $620 million in the 3rd quarter of 2017 alone.
> 
> The bigger problem is once BMW, MBZ, Audi, Ford etc, start building electric cars, Tesla is done. Those people know how to build a car.



You do realize Ford, GM, and Chrysler each lost more than Tesla's entire existance in a single quarter before right?  GM lost 15.5 BILLION in a single quarter.  Like 6 times more than Tesla ever has.. in 3 months.  And GM didn't lose it by re-investing and growing their product.  

Amazon.. First profitable year was 2003.  9 years after he started up because he wanted to grow rather than profit. Egghead had the idea.  They closed all their retail stores, went online only, and made a pile of cash in the 90's.  Amazon instead focused on growth over profit. 

Turner broadcasting.  Started in the 70's.  1991 was the first year for them in the black.  They focused for over a decade on spending to improve their product, gain new shows, build their empire. 

Fed Ex.  Took 5 years to have a single profitable month. 

Tupperware, Google, Twitter.   Look at the companies that start out looking at growth and reinvestment rather than making a quick buck.  Those are the ones that truly become huge.  

Sure, Netflix could be competing with Blockbuster still doing their mail order DVD's.  Instead they went deep in the red for a number of years building up their streaming service.  Blockbuster content with profits invested very little into anything to move the company forward.

Same with McDonalds.  When they were in their expansion phase, they were losing piles of cash. They were taking out loans and hemorrhaging money as they were in every town buying up the busiest piece of commercial property.  

That's the thing.  Companies that keep it small, take a great idea and rather than reinvest on it look to make the quick buck, usually don't last. 

Companies like Blackberry and Myspace can sit back and make a ton of money by coming up with a great idea.  But ones like Facebook, Apple and Samsung are the ones that continually reinvest and improve upon that great idea.


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## Slash

If Tesla's goal was make a quick profit they could have.  Back a few years ago when the best electric cars were getting barely 60 miles of range, instead of making the Model S with over 200 miles, he could have passed on the high end.  Made a little car, ignore future tech and infrastructure  and made something with 100-120 mile range and sell it for a profit. 

Instead he pushed not only to become a leader in electric batteries, but electric motors, charging methods, self driving, wirelessly updating the vehicle, etc.  And then when the new Bolt with longer range came out, he could bow out, sell off his trademarks and retire and be out of the game.  

He made it where the big car companies now have their hand forced.  Do they keep just investing a little bit into EV's and fall behind?  Or do they go to their board and stock owners and say "I know we lost you guys all a PILE of money 10 years ago, but we have to spend a pile right now to go full bore into this EV investment or we will be left behind in the long run if we want to stay competitive in that market".


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## Zander

Slash said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a chart of Tesla's losses each year. In  2017 their losses will exceed $800 million as well....They lost $620 million in the 3rd quarter of 2017 alone.
> 
> The bigger problem is once BMW, MBZ, Audi, Ford etc, start building electric cars, Tesla is done. Those people know how to build a car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize Ford, GM, and Chrysler each lost more than Tesla's entire existance in a single quarter before right?  GM lost 15.5 BILLION in a single quarter.  Like 6 times more than Tesla ever has.. in 3 months.  And GM didn't lose it by re-investing and growing their product.
> 
> Amazon.. First profitable year was 2003.  9 years after he started up because he wanted to grow rather than profit. Egghead had the idea.  They closed all their retail stores, went online only, and made a pile of cash in the 90's.  Amazon instead focused on growth over profit.
> 
> Turner broadcasting.  Started in the 70's.  1991 was the first year for them in the black.  They focused for over a decade on spending to improve their product, gain new shows, build their empire.
> 
> Fed Ex.  Took 5 years to have a single profitable month.
> 
> Tupperware, Google, Twitter.   Look at the companies that start out looking at growth and reinvestment rather than making a quick buck.  Those are the ones that truly become huge.
> 
> Sure, Netflix could be competing with Blockbuster still doing their mail order DVD's.  Instead they went deep in the red for a number of years building up their streaming service.  Blockbuster content with profits invested very little into anything to move the company forward.
> 
> Same with McDonalds.  When they were in their expansion phase, they were losing piles of cash. They were taking out loans and hemorrhaging money as they were in every town buying up the busiest piece of commercial property.
> 
> That's the thing.  Companies that keep it small, take a great idea and rather than reinvest on it look to make the quick buck, usually don't last.
> 
> Companies like Blackberry and Myspace can sit back and make a ton of money by coming up with a great idea.  But ones like Facebook, Apple and Samsung are the ones that continually reinvest and improve upon that great idea.
Click to expand...


We shall see. 

At this point, they can't deliver their promised vehicles or any profit. 

At some point, the tax incentives are going to go away, and unless they make $$$$$ ,  investors are going to bale.


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## Slash

Zander said:


> We shall see.
> 
> At this point, they can't deliver their promised vehicles or any profit.
> 
> At some point, the tax incentives are going to go away, and unless they make $$$$$ ,  investors are going to bale.



They are delivering their vehicles.  Making cars isn't rocket science.  And by the way this guy makes the best rockets in the world.  They'll get the cars figured out, just like they did when everyone said the Model S would never come out, then said the Model X would never come out, then said the home battery system would never come out.. It gets old hearing people throwing out the same claim over and over and over.  

Think of when the Iphone or Playstation or a movie comes out how many people are standing in line on that first day to get them.   And for every person in line, there's another 20 saying "I'll just wait until their next manufacturing push or my phone to really need to upgrade, or give it a few more weeks".  There's 450,000 people in that line for the Model 3.  The issue isn't the tech, its the suppliers and working out the kinks of mass production.  That's not going to stop them.  

And they've said from the start, growth is more important than profit at this point, instead of profit, lets build a factory to build a LOT more cars.    And yes that tax incentive is going away.  Just like Cash for Clunkers went away.


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## Zander

Slash said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> We shall see.
> 
> At this point, they can't deliver their promised vehicles or any profit.
> 
> At some point, the tax incentives are going to go away, and unless they make $$$$$ ,  investors are going to bale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are delivering their vehicles.  Making cars isn't rocket science.  And by the way this guy makes the best rockets in the world.  They'll get the cars figured out, just like they did when everyone said the Model S would never come out, then said the Model X would never come out, then said the home battery system would never come out.. It gets old hearing people throwing out the same claim over and over and over.
> 
> Think of when the Iphone or Playstation or a movie comes out how many people are standing in line on that first day to get them.   And for every person in line, there's another 20 saying "I'll just wait until their next manufacturing push or my phone to really need to upgrade, or give it a few more weeks".  There's 450,000 people in that line for the Model 3.  The issue isn't the tech, its the suppliers and working out the kinks of mass production.  That's not going to stop them.
> 
> And they've said from the start, growth is more important than profit at this point, instead of profit, lets build a factory to build a LOT more cars.    And yes that tax incentive is going away.  Just like Cash for Clunkers went away.
Click to expand...


Feel free to invest in them.


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## DrLove

westwall said:


> It's no secret, Tesla has had how many Quarters in the black?  One?  Two?    They lost 600 million last Quarter.  The only way to keep that sinking ship afloat is to get more suckers to keep it above water.  They aren't giving more cash for the products already on offer, so you have to come up with something "new".
> 
> Same old game, same old system, just the newest bunch of suckers.



Nay, the Model 3 starting at 35k is going to save them. Production issues - yep, but they are being solved.

Model 3


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## Slash

Zander said:


> Feel free to invest in them.



Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.


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## DGS49

Any commercial truck buyer will know exactly what his needs are before investing in an electric truck/tractor.  If it is required to go more miles between major stops than the Tesla can provide, then maybe an electric is not for them, but...

I saw a whole fleet of Tesla taxis in Amsterdam.  I never would have expected that, but they were providing great service under very demanding conditions.

Tesla is doing exciting things and apparently making great cars.  I just wonder if the "Big Three" are just around the corner with even better electric cars, since they have lots more money to invest in development.  But I read several car mags every month and I haven't seen anything to indicate that.  Chevy Bolt is OK, but not better than the Tesla 3.


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## Zander

Slash said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to invest in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.
> 
> It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.
Click to expand...


I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles.  I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range. 

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits)  are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on  "potential".  Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost. 

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.


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## Slash

Zander said:


> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to invest in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.
> 
> It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles.  I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.
> 
> My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits)  are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on  "potential".  Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.
> 
> To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.
Click to expand...


I agree on hybrid as that middle step right now until fully electric is fully capable.  But looks like its hitting it's stride in the next few weeks. 

As for the Subsidies, they are well under anything any other US auto maker ever got.   So I mean if you want to go after those.  Heck, Coal, big oil, GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. have at them.  And Tesla is the only automaker not moving any of it's production outside of the US while getting that money. 

Something like 3.4 billion in subsidies and tax breaks for Tesla in its entire life and in under 2 years GM got over 50 billion. 

Again, if that's a massive loss, how is GM in just 3 months losing 6 times what Tesla lost in 8 years.


Zander said:


> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to invest in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.
> 
> It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles.  I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.
> 
> My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits)  are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on  "potential".  Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.
> 
> To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.
Click to expand...


I think the Hybrid will be a great in between tech that bridges gas to full electric and that's what it's done as electric tech has increased.  I don't see it as a long term vehicle though.  Kinda like the clamshell phone.  Nice to bridge between the big handsets and the full screen ones.  

I still don't see the massive losses.  GM for example in 3 months lost over 5 times what Tesla has in it's entire existence.  I mean since 1987, the Big 3 are net negative on profit.  Some years up, but overall they've lost in that time span.  

Also the bailout reason makes no sense.  Over 2 years in the mid-2000's, GM got 55 billion in bailouts/tax breaks.  Tesla is around 3.4 billion in total (most in a loan that was paid back early).  And GM and Ford after another round of handouts (see 1950's, 1970's 1990's) move production outside of the US.  GM says they can't pay back the US government what they should since it would "upset their stockholders"   Chrysler takes it's 30 billion in bailout to regain solvency long enough to get production ramped up in Canada and sell itself to Italy.   And there have always been tax breaks on vehicles in different ways.  Cash for clunkers cost billions in taxpayer money alone.  

I am not a fan of gov't handouts either but unless you have a political position Tesla is WAYYYYY down the list.


----------



## Zander

Slash said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to invest in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.
> 
> It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles.  I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.
> 
> My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits)  are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on  "potential".  Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.
> 
> To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree on hybrid as that middle step right now until fully electric is fully capable.  But looks like its hitting it's stride in the next few weeks.
> 
> As for the Subsidies, they are well under anything any other US auto maker ever got.   So I mean if you want to go after those.  Heck, Coal, big oil, GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. have at them.  And Tesla is the only automaker not moving any of it's production outside of the US while getting that money.
> 
> Something like 3.4 billion in subsidies and tax breaks for Tesla in its entire life and in under 2 years GM got over 50 billion.
> 
> Again, if that's a massive loss, how is GM in just 3 months losing 6 times what Tesla lost in 8 years.
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to invest in them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.
> 
> It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles.  I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.
> 
> My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits)  are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on  "potential".  Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.
> 
> To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the Hybrid will be a great in between tech that bridges gas to full electric and that's what it's done as electric tech has increased.  I don't see it as a long term vehicle though.  Kinda like the clamshell phone.  Nice to bridge between the big handsets and the full screen ones.
> 
> I still don't see the massive losses.  GM for example in 3 months lost over 5 times what Tesla has in it's entire existence.  I mean since 1987, the Big 3 are net negative on profit.  Some years up, but overall they've lost in that time span.
> 
> Also the bailout reason makes no sense.  Over 2 years in the mid-2000's, GM got 55 billion in bailouts/tax breaks.  Tesla is around 3.4 billion in total (most in a loan that was paid back early).  And GM and Ford after another round of handouts (see 1950's, 1970's 1990's) move production outside of the US.  GM says they can't pay back the US government what they should since it would "upset their stockholders"   Chrysler takes it's 30 billion in bailout to regain solvency long enough to get production ramped up in Canada and sell itself to Italy.   And there have always been tax breaks on vehicles in different ways.  Cash for clunkers cost billions in taxpayer money alone.
> 
> I am not a fan of gov't handouts either but unless you have a political position Tesla is WAYYYYY down the list.
Click to expand...


Like I said, I have no problem with electric cars. I think they are the next wave. But I do have a problem with Bailouts and handouts. 

IMHO, GM should not be in business, nor Chrysler.   But the Federal Government bailed them out, ostensibly, for the "Union" jobs they were "saving".   

Ford, by contrast, was not bailed out. They've been consistently profitable since 2009 and with the exception of a few bad years that any company can experience, they've been a profitable company since their inception.  They produce 2.5 MILLION cars a year. Tesla has sold less than 250,000 in 10 years. (Ford also pays a nice 5% dividend)

I want government out of the business of picking winners and losers.  Is that unreasonable?


----------



## Old Rocks

DGS49 said:


> Any commercial truck buyer will know exactly what his needs are before investing in an electric truck/tractor.  If it is required to go more miles between major stops than the Tesla can provide, then maybe an electric is not for them, but...
> 
> I saw a whole fleet of Tesla taxis in Amsterdam.  I never would have expected that, but they were providing great service under very demanding conditions.
> 
> Tesla is doing exciting things and apparently making great cars.  I just wonder if the "Big Three" are just around the corner with even better electric cars, since they have lots more money to invest in development.  But I read several car mags every month and I haven't seen anything to indicate that.  Chevy Bolt is OK, but not better than the Tesla 3.


I think that the companies you need to watch for advanced EV's that compete with Tesla will come from China.


----------



## Old Rocks

Zander said:


> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to invest in them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.
> 
> It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles.  I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.
> 
> My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits)  are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on  "potential".  Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.
> 
> To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree on hybrid as that middle step right now until fully electric is fully capable.  But looks like its hitting it's stride in the next few weeks.
> 
> As for the Subsidies, they are well under anything any other US auto maker ever got.   So I mean if you want to go after those.  Heck, Coal, big oil, GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. have at them.  And Tesla is the only automaker not moving any of it's production outside of the US while getting that money.
> 
> Something like 3.4 billion in subsidies and tax breaks for Tesla in its entire life and in under 2 years GM got over 50 billion.
> 
> Again, if that's a massive loss, how is GM in just 3 months losing 6 times what Tesla lost in 8 years.
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to invest in them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start.  Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it?   It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"...  Yeah, at some point that may be true.  But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.
> 
> It's just kind of a lazy tactic now.  That and the battery one is hilarious.  Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years.  We've been putting billions of miles on them.  The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles.  I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.
> 
> My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits)  are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on  "potential".  Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.
> 
> To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the Hybrid will be a great in between tech that bridges gas to full electric and that's what it's done as electric tech has increased.  I don't see it as a long term vehicle though.  Kinda like the clamshell phone.  Nice to bridge between the big handsets and the full screen ones.
> 
> I still don't see the massive losses.  GM for example in 3 months lost over 5 times what Tesla has in it's entire existence.  I mean since 1987, the Big 3 are net negative on profit.  Some years up, but overall they've lost in that time span.
> 
> Also the bailout reason makes no sense.  Over 2 years in the mid-2000's, GM got 55 billion in bailouts/tax breaks.  Tesla is around 3.4 billion in total (most in a loan that was paid back early).  And GM and Ford after another round of handouts (see 1950's, 1970's 1990's) move production outside of the US.  GM says they can't pay back the US government what they should since it would "upset their stockholders"   Chrysler takes it's 30 billion in bailout to regain solvency long enough to get production ramped up in Canada and sell itself to Italy.   And there have always been tax breaks on vehicles in different ways.  Cash for clunkers cost billions in taxpayer money alone.
> 
> I am not a fan of gov't handouts either but unless you have a political position Tesla is WAYYYYY down the list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I said, I have no problem with electric cars. I think they are the next wave. But I do have a problem with Bailouts and handouts.
> 
> IMHO, GM should not be in business, nor Chrysler.   But the Federal Government bailed them out, ostensibly, for the "Union" jobs they were "saving".
> 
> Ford, by contrast, was not bailed out. They've been consistently profitable since 2009 and with the exception of a few bad years that any company can experience, they've been a profitable company since their inception.  They produce 2.5 MILLION cars a year. Tesla has sold less than 250,000 in 10 years. (Ford also pays a nice 5% dividend)
> 
> I want government out of the business of picking winners and losers.  Is that unreasonable?
Click to expand...

Yes,it is. Had not the government got into the business of picking winners and losers, the Transcontinental railroad would not have happened when it did. It would have been another 20 years later, at least.


----------



## Shrimpbox

I am not a scientist, and I don’t know anything about lithium batteries, but the amount of energy and heat generated by charging semi truck batteries in a half hour would severely degrade regular batteries. It is not because I don’t want it to be true, but I am going to have to see it to believe it that truck batteries can be charged at this rate 300 times a year for five years and still give optimum performance.

And all of,this has to be true for trucking companies to come on board. The bottom line is the ONLY thing this crowd is concerned about.


----------



## Shrimpbox

Data visualized by
	

© Statista 2017 

About this statistic

Show source

DOWNLOAD SETTINGS SHARE 
DESCRIPTION SOURCE MORE INFORMATION 
This graph displays the number of full-time employees working at Tesla Motors between July 2010 and December 2016. The number of people employed by Tesla came to 2,964 in 2012. This figure is considerably lower than that of other vehicle manufacturers: General Motors employed around 213,000 people in 2012. The California-headquartered automaker manufactures and sells electric cars and electric vehicle powertrain components.  

I agree with much of what you say slash, investing for the long term, etc. but when you acknowledge the fed ex or the Tupperware you fail to also acknowledge the 1000s of companies that failed and never made it . In so doing you seem to insinuate that there is no way for tesla to fail. That it’s success is a foregone conclusion, or put another way, the devil is really not in the details. We will see. The latest articles I have read say teslas borrowing ability has about run its course and the only thing left is to issue more stock diluting the value. So maybe gm or Mercedes steps in and buys the company, I don’t know how it will end.

Let’s just take your subsidy argument. I posted the employee numbers to try to get some scale. Of course none of gms numbers take into account suppliers, parts houses, service mechanics, dealerships, etc. let’s just say it is a huge ecosystem. Tesla, not at all. So 50billion went to gm and 3.4 went to tesla. For the sake of argument let’s just say tesla has 1% of the employees gm does. So to be comparable, 340 billion would of had to go to gm to have a similar employee to subsidy ratio. Not really comparable.

This is interesting.........

It looks like the state of California is bailing out Tesla


----------



## Viacheslav

Old Rocks said:


> 1.9 seconds 0-60   4.2 seconds 0-100  top end 250+ mph   range 620 miles
> 
> Something to relax in after a day of driving that semi.



As for me, this is not good news. I think that the future of Tesla depends only on  of the successful launch of the mass production of Tesla 3. Tesla spends hundreds of millions of dollars every month, and only mass sale of Tesla 3 will save Tesla. This roadster or S-model has a very narrow market, and i afraid that Roadster or Semi is just an attempt to divert attention from problems with the mass production of Tesla 3.


----------



## Old Rocks

That roadster will serve the same function for Tesla as the GT40 did for Ford. It establishes an image for the brand name. You dream of owning a Roadster, but you buy the Tesla 3. It is a form of advertising.


----------



## westwall

Old Rocks said:


> That roadster will serve the same function for Tesla as the GT40 did for Ford. It establishes an image for the brand name. You dream of owning a Roadster, but you buy the Tesla 3. It is a form of advertising.










Wrong on all counts.  The GT40 was a product of revenge.  Henry Ford II wanted to buy Ferrari and when Enzo backed out at the last second, Ford was pissed so told his point man (Don Frey) to "go win Le Mans" because that was Ferrari's main claim to fame.  Ford wanted to beat Ferrari at their own game.


----------



## Old Rocks

And Tesla wants to beat all the high end sports car producers at their own game by producing a vehicle that exceeds their vehicles at 1/2 to 1/10 the price. And he will probably do just that. And force those manufacturers to go to an EV vehicle to compete. Same as he is forcing all the large automobile manufacturers to bring out EV's with his S,3,X line. And he is going to be in position to supply batteries for these other manufacturers. So, he will either go broke, or end up very rich.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

mamooth said:


> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.



    So you want semis to have better acceleration?
I prefer em being slow since those things are a MFer to stop.
   And new big rigs already have traction control.
Hell,my old 2007 FJ had it.


----------



## Viacheslav

Old Rocks said:


> That roadster will serve the same function for Tesla as the GT40 did for Ford. It establishes an image for the brand name. You dream of owning a Roadster, but you buy the Tesla 3. It is a form of advertising.



This will make sense if Tesla launches mass production of Tesla 3 (100 - 200 thousand cars per month), and not later than 2019. Ford produces millions of cars a year.


----------



## westwall

Old Rocks said:


> And Tesla wants to beat all the high end sports car producers at their own game by producing a vehicle that exceeds their vehicles at 1/2 to 1/10 the price. And he will probably do just that. And force those manufacturers to go to an EV vehicle to compete. Same as he is forcing all the large automobile manufacturers to bring out EV's with his S,3,X line. And he is going to be in position to supply batteries for these other manufacturers. So, he will either go broke, or end up very rich.









Good luck with that.  He is completely outclassed.  Hell his Roadster was a Lotus Elise that he ripped the powertrain out of.  He had never actually built a car until the S.


----------



## Viacheslav

Old Rocks said:


> And Tesla wants to beat all the high end sports car producers at their own game by producing a vehicle that exceeds their vehicles at 1/2 to 1/10 the price.



And for what? The market of sports cars is very limited, and for me Tesla should do everything possible for Tesla 3 as soon as possible, and to spend resources on Semi and roadster is not a reasonable way (in my opinion, of course)


----------



## Missourian

Old Rocks said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't count on any military contracts, just sayin'.
> 
> "Maximum 500 mile range". It is teh funny!
> 
> Don't count on any real truck drivers purchasing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just sayin' that you are full of shit. Plenty of use for the military for that truck in the states.
Click to expand...

Not really.

The military needs trucks that they can repair quickly with minimal tools anywhere.  The military will be the absolutely last buyer.  They are still using Detroit Diesel 11.1 liter DDEC II's...an engine that has that has been out of commercial production for at least 20 years.  My first truck was a 1996 Freightliner Fld...it had a Detroit 12.7 DDEC III,  and I stuck with that configuration in all my trucks.  No regen,  no egrs,  just a very basic engine that is easily repaired.


----------



## Missourian

mamooth said:


> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.



I saw it.  Not impressed.


----------



## Missourian

List of United States Army tactical truck engines - Wikipedia

Here's your list Old Rocks ...  The military 60 series is actually a 12.7...The next generation of 60 Series was the 14 liter.  Almost every Army semi tractor runs a 60 Series.  No climate change bullshit,  no particulate filters,  no EGR,  no DEF,  no regeneration,  just plain jane hardworking turbo diesels.  Give me 10 hours,  I'll strip down every external engine component...starter,  alternator,  fuel pump,  air conditioning compressor,  both starter solenoids,  oil cooler,  turbo,  air compressor,  radiator,  fan hub, air to air, water pump,  power steering pump and steering box,  ECM,  reset the overhead and have all new OEM parts installed...and I'm not a trained mechanic...learned by doing.

Got one sitting out front with two million miles on it...we're going for four million.

When the Tesla's done that...in real world conditions...I'm sure the Army will be happy not to buy them.

Because petrol can go anywhere,  and the Army knows how to get it there. Massive amounts of electricity...not so much.

So kiss that pipedream goodbye.


----------



## mamooth

It's not just Tesla. Mercedes_Benz is already cranking out electric trucks, vans and buses.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/zero...g66A54A&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1juRsQu37yoE01
---
More than a year ago, we were the first company ever to present the concept of a fully electric truck for urban distribution of up to 25 tons. The “Mercedes-Benz Electric Truck” showed what’s technically feasible – and we just kept going from there …

This October, we unveiled our “E-FUSO Vision One”: a heavy-duty all-electric truck concept with a range of up to 350 kilometers (about 220 miles) on a single charge and a payload of up to 11 tons.

With the “FUSO eCanter” we already have a fully electric light-duty truck on the road that specializes in short-distance and inner-city delivery. Among our first customers in the U.S. is UPS.

And to get even closer to last-mile delivery and right up to people’s doorsteps, we are also working on fully electric vans. We have partnered, for example, with Hermes logistics, which is going to upgrade its delivery-fleet with 1,500 electric vans from Mercedes-Benz by 2020.

Last week we also introduced an iconic, all-electric yellow school bus from our partners at Thomas Built Buses. We call the bus “Jouley”. Jouley will be ready to silently and safely take kids to school starting in 2019. Even earlier, in late 2018, we are going to launch series-production of our all-electric city bus “Mercedes-Benz Citaro E-Cell”.
---


----------



## Wyatt earp

Shrimpbox said:


> Couldn’t this be a case of don’t look over here look at this shiny object.
> 
> I learned today from a dot guy you can’t use water on a tesla car fire. I said what do you use then? Something that takes oxygen out of the air? Hope you aren’t caught in an overturned tesla vehicle on fire.
> 
> There is no info on the truck batteries. There is no price target. Delivery dates are fungible. Charging stations are nonexistent. Charging times are not available. Could ISIS have designed a better truck to commit terror with. Trust but verify.




Exactly take a water hose on a transformer ..



Your dead


----------



## Desperado

*Tesla’s Burning Through Nearly Half a Million Dollars Every Hour*
Over the past 12 months, the electric-car maker has been burning money at a clip of about $8,000 a minute (or $480,000 an hour), Bloomberg data show. At this pace, the company is on track to exhaust its current cash pile on Monday, Aug. 6. (At 2:17 a.m. New York time, if you really want to be precise.)
We shall see how this goes with no government aid.
“Whether they can last another 10 months or a year, he needs money, and quickly,” said Kevin Tynan, senior analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence, who estimates Tesla will be required to raise at least $2 billion in fresh capital by mid-2018


----------



## Old Rocks

Yes, Tesla is betting big time. But if they succeed they will become one of the foremost automakers in the world. With a product line from a middle income auto, to the fastest street sports car in the world. And the premier battery manufacturer in the world. EV's to grid scale. $316 on the stock today. Looks like plenty of people think that he will win his bet.


----------



## Viacheslav

Old Rocks said:


> But if they succeed they will become one of the foremost automakers in the world.


I'm not sure about this, electric car - a simple device in comparison with the "conventional" car, and almost all automakers have created their electric cars, but simply the market of electric cars is not yet big compared to the markets of "conventional" cars. 



Old Rocks said:


> And the premier battery manufacturer in the world



If the media doesn't lie, Chinese companies have plans  to create battery factories for total capacity more than 120 gigawatt-hours a year by 2021,  which is three times more than Tesla Inc.’s Gigafactory.  

Perhaps Tesla will attract buyers by offering additional functions of their cars, for example, an autopilot.


----------



## Old Rocks

Not yet large, for sure. But growing daily. And, yes, the Chinese will be very competitive in this field. As will the Japanese. In fact, I would like to see most of the auto makers compete in the EV's. That will not only grow the market, but force innovation at a faster rate. I think that is one of the reasons that Musk brought out that roadster. The only way that Ferrari or Lamborghini will match that is to move to an EV.


----------



## Desperado

I forgot to add the link to the 
"*Tesla’s Burning Through Nearly Half a Million Dollars Every Hour"*

Tesla’s Burning Through Nearly Half a Million Dollars Every Hour


----------



## Old Rocks

And yet the investors don't seem to share your opinion.


----------



## Darkwind

mamooth said:


> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.


??  Most trucks travel approx. 700 miles a day for the OTR guys.  If a truck gets 12 mpg with a 350-gallon capacity, they'll go 4200 miles before needing to refuel.


----------



## Old Rocks

317.55+0.74 (+0.23%)
At close: 4:00PM EST
TSLA : Summary for Tesla, Inc. - Yahoo Finance

*Tesla looking good.*


----------



## Darkwind

I'll say that the interior looks cool, but they only come with a day kit?  I don't see a bunk or anything behind the seat.


----------



## Darkwind

HereWeGoAgain said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want semis to have better acceleration?
> I prefer em being slow since those things are a MFer to stop.
> And new big rigs already have traction control.
> Hell,my old 2007 FJ had it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, 40,000 pounds is significant.  I think I'd want traction control in braking.  Acceleration isn't even a concern really.


----------



## Grumblenuts

From techcrunch.com:


> PepsiCo is actually the second large beverage concern this week to announce its intent to purchase some of Tesla’s all-electric Class 8 heavy-duty towing vehicles; Budweiser brewer Anheuser-Busch revealed earlier that it has put down money for 40 Tesla Semis.
> 
> Tesla is seeing a lot of pre-order interest already, from major fleet operators including Walmart, Canadian grocery chain Loblaws and many more.


They most likely know what they're doing.


Darkwind said:


> Most trucks travel approx. 700 miles a day for the OTR guys.


Most "trucks" aren't driven by "OTR guys." Class 8 trucks average around 186 miles per day, including weekends and holidays> OTR truckers? Here's the truth (in case you're ever interested in that). And here. (450-500 miles per day).


Darkwind said:


> Yeah, 40,000 pounds is significant.


You mean 80,000 pounds? That's the norm for OTR tractor-trailers (federal highway limit).


Darkwind said:


> I think I'd want traction control in braking. Acceleration isn't even a concern really.


The Tesla is superior at both, so?


> The semi- truck has regenerative braking, a feature found in its electric passenger vehicles (as well as electric vehicles from other automakers) that delivers power to the battery when drivers take their foot off the accelerator.


Acceleration : Deceleration - all looks the same to an electric motor/generator. And hey, no Jake brake fines to worry about. Plus "4 independent electric motors on rear axles"


----------



## theHawk

Did they ever release the curb weight of the truck itself?

Elon Musk is a sneaky motherfucker, he didn’t say what it was during his fanboy announcement.  The empty weight will determine how much payload can be transported.  Because of the federal limit the more the truck weighs, the less you can transport.  He didn’t talk about that.

Whoever buys these things will also have to buy the power stations at their distribution and delivery centers, unless one is dumb enough to believe they will have all new recharging stations everywhere.


----------



## Grumblenuts

theHawk said:


> Did they ever release the curb weight of the truck itself?
> 
> Elon Musk is a sneaky motherfucker, he didn’t say what it was during his fanboy announcement. The empty weight will determine how much payload can be transported. Because of the federal limit the more the truck weighs, the less you can transport. He didn’t talk about that.


No, he sure didn't and yes, everyone knows he's brilliant. So? Obviously the payload will be somewhat less than that with a diesel tractor until battery power density improves through technology. Steel haulers will have to wait but most freight does not max out the legal limit:


> The EPA estimates the typical weight of an unladen Class 8 tractor-trailer combination is on the order of 35,000 pounds while payloads typically max out at about 40,000 pounds. So while 80,000 pounds is the load limit for Class 8 trucks, well over 90% of the tractor-trailers weigh in at less than 73,000 pounds.


90% can then easily handle a bit more weight on the tandem axles.


theHawk said:


> Whoever buys these things will also have to buy the power stations at their distribution and delivery centers, unless one is dumb enough to believe they will have all new recharging stations everywhere.


Why present people-are-really-dumb case scenarios? Must relate to being a "Registered Conservative" somehow.


> At the November 2017 press conference Musk also said that the company would be involved in installing a global network of "megachargers" that would be *solar-powered* and would be able to recharge a truck's batteries in 30 minutes to a capacity to travel 400 miles (644 km)


 Emphasis on "*solar-powered*" mine. These will only decrease the cost relative to fossil fuel dependence over time.

eta: full disclosure: I currently own no stock in any particular industry. I've always held engineering interest in wind and solar.


----------



## Old Rocks

Business Insider." data-reactid="23" style="margin-bottom: 1em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">“The game-changing capabilities and economics of the Tesla semi potentially set off separation between the technology leaders and the laggards among carriers, shippers, truck OEMs and suppliers,” Jonas said in a note obtained by _Business Insider_.

Indeed, the list of companies who have already placed orders for the Tesla Semi is filled with familiar names, including blue-chip companies such as Pepsi, Sysco, and Walmart. Specifically, Pepsi reportedly ordered 100 Tesla Semi trucks with Walmart committing to buy 15 units.

More recently, Tesla just secured its biggest reservation yet, with UPS reserving a whopping 125 units just this week.

“For more than a century, UPS has led the industry in testing and implementing new technologies for more efficient fleet operations. We look forward to expanding further our commitment to fleet excellence with Tesla,,” UPS CIO Juan Perez said in a press release.

“These groundbreaking electric tractors are poised to usher in a new era in improved safety, reduced environmental impact, and reduced cost of ownership,” Perez later added.

Pre-orders for the new Tesla Semi are exploding

*Tesla, Inc. (TSLA)*
NasdaqGS - NasdaqGS Delayed Price. Currency in USD
Add to watchlist
328.98-2.12 (-0.64%)
At close: 4:00PM EST
329.65 +0.67 (0.20%)
After hours: 7:58PM EST

*Tesla looking good.*


----------



## westwall

mamooth said:


> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.





Hmmmm, four and a half years on.

I still haven't seen one.


----------



## elektra

In the future we will all be green. Currently in Musk's secret backyard garden he is quietly growing lithium batteries on magic water lilies.


----------



## Viacheslav

westwall said:


> Hmmmm, four and a half years on.
> 
> I still haven't seen one.





> The Tesla Semi is delayed again​Any company looking to start hauling things cross-country using a Tesla Semi will have to wait until 2022 at the earliest.
> 
> Tesla on Monday said it has shifted the electric big rig's launch to 2022, blaming the delay on "limited availability of battery cells and global supply chain challenges." The company also said it is tabling the project to focus resources on getting two new factories in Berlin and Austin.
> 
> The entire auto industry has been hobbled by a shortage of microchips, which are crucial to all manner of vehicle systems. Tesla has also said its production has been affected by congestion at ports.
> 
> But the development of Tesla's truck was slow-going long before the pandemic upended global supply chains.
> 
> When Tesla first announced the Semi in 2017, it aimed to start delivering trucks to customers in 2019. Over the years, it pushed the tractor trailer's launch to 2020, and later to 2021.











						The Tesla Semi is delayed again
					

When Tesla unveiled the Semi in 2017, it planned to start selling the big rig in 2019. The truck has been delayed several times since.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## westwall

Viacheslav said:


> The Tesla Semi is delayed again
> 
> 
> When Tesla unveiled the Semi in 2017, it planned to start selling the big rig in 2019. The truck has been delayed several times since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com






150,000 for 300 mile range is pretty sucky.  If they can't do a minimum of 600 miles they are going to have a hard time selling them.


----------



## Old Rocks

westwall said:


> Ahhh, the Ponzi scheme continues.  How wonderful....


Now three years later, Musk is 300 billion richer, and you are still spouting foolishness. LOL


----------



## Old Rocks

westwall said:


> A legitimate business turns a profit.  A legitimate business doesn't need to go out and get new "investors" to keep the plant open.  A legitimate business actually produces its product ON TIME.  Something that tesla has never done.


God, I do love these old posts. See how stupid your flap yap was then? And you haven't changed a bit. Tesla has made enough profit they are building new gigafactories about every year now. And I bet they build over a million vehicles in 2022. Their goal is five million by 2025, I bet they exceed that.


----------



## Old Rocks

elektra said:


> In the future we will all be green. Currently in Musk's secret backyard garden he is quietly growing lithium batteries on magic water lilies.


No, dumb ass, Musk has 17,000 acres in Nevada that can produce all the lithium he needs. And he has signed several producers on the East Coast, Australia, and China for lithium also. 

Abstract​The omnipresence of lithium-ion batteries in mobile electronics, and hybrid and electric vehicles necessitates discovery of new lithium resources to meet rising demand and to diversify the global lithium supply chain. Here we demonstrate that lake sediments preserved within intracontinental rhyolitic calderas formed on eruption and weathering of lithium-enriched magmas have the potential to host large lithium clay deposits. We compare lithium concentrations of magmas formed in a variety of tectonic settings using in situ trace-element measurements of quartz-hosted melt inclusions to demonstrate that moderate to extreme lithium enrichment occurs in magmas that incorporate felsic continental crust. Cenozoic calderas in western North America and in other intracontinental settings that generated such magmas are promising new targets for lithium exploration because lithium leached from the eruptive products by meteoric and hydrothermal fluids becomes concentrated in clays within caldera lake sediments to potentially economically extractable levels.









						Lithium enrichment in intracontinental rhyolite magmas leads to Li deposits in caldera basins - Nature Communications
					

Lithium is increasingly being utilized for modern technology in the form of lithium-ion batteries. Here, using in situ measurements of quartz-hosted melt inclusions, the authors demonstrate that preserved lake sediments within rhyolitic calderas have the potential to host large lithium-rich clay...




					www.nature.com
				




And there are many of these formations in Oregon, Nevada, California, and Idaho. Tesla has a new method of extraction of lithium from lithium clays that is not only less costly, but also leaves the environment restorable.


----------



## Old Rocks

westwall said:


> 150,000 for 300 mile range is pretty sucky.  If they can't do a minimum of 600 miles they are going to have a hard time selling them.


Most trucks do not do 300 miles in a day. In fact, there are many that do multiple trips in a day, and barely exceed 100 miles. For them, the Tesla is a real winner.


----------



## Old Rocks

Tesla is hardly the only truck manufacturer going electric. 





						Trucks | Freightliner Trucks
					

Dedicated to providing superior trucks built to lower your real cost of ownership




					freightliner.com


----------



## elektra

Old Rocks said:


> No, dumb ass, Musk has 17,000 acres in Nevada that can produce all the lithium he needs. And he has signed several producers on the East Coast, Australia, and China for lithium also.
> 
> Abstract​The omnipresence of lithium-ion batteries in mobile electronics, and hybrid and electric vehicles necessitates discovery of new lithium resources to meet rising demand and to diversify the global lithium supply chain. Here we demonstrate that lake sediments preserved within intracontinental rhyolitic calderas formed on eruption and weathering of lithium-enriched magmas have the potential to host large lithium clay deposits. We compare lithium concentrations of magmas formed in a variety of tectonic settings using in situ trace-element measurements of quartz-hosted melt inclusions to demonstrate that moderate to extreme lithium enrichment occurs in magmas that incorporate felsic continental crust. Cenozoic calderas in western North America and in other intracontinental settings that generated such magmas are promising new targets for lithium exploration because lithium leached from the eruptive products by meteoric and hydrothermal fluids becomes concentrated in clays within caldera lake sediments to potentially economically extractable levels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lithium enrichment in intracontinental rhyolite magmas leads to Li deposits in caldera basins - Nature Communications
> 
> 
> Lithium is increasingly being utilized for modern technology in the form of lithium-ion batteries. Here, using in situ measurements of quartz-hosted melt inclusions, the authors demonstrate that preserved lake sediments within rhyolitic calderas have the potential to host large lithium-rich clay...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nature.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there are many of these formations in Oregon, Nevada, California, and Idaho. Tesla has a new method of extraction of lithium from lithium clays that is not only less costly, but also leaves the environment restorable.


If Nevada has all the lithium tesla needs why does your link say you are a fucking liar???


"the Li clay deposit in Sonora, Mexico (Fig. 2a), as the future supply for the Tesla Motors gigafactory in Reno, Nevada16."


----------



## Grumblenuts

elektra said:


> If Nevada has all the lithium tesla needs why does your link say you are a fucking liar???
> 
> 
> "the Li clay deposit in Sonora, Mexico (Fig. 2a), as the future supply for the Tesla Motors gigafactory in Reno, Nevada16."





Old Rocks said:


> Musk has 17,000 acres in Nevada that can produce all the lithium he needs.


Gee, ya don't think,.. ..that perhaps "can" doesn't always mean "will"?


> These deposits are gaining more attention due to the recent assessment of the McDermitt/Kings Valley deposit in Nevada (Fig. 2) as the largest Li resource in the United States (~2 Mt)15, and the selection of the Li clay deposit in Sonora, Mexico (Fig. 2a), as the future supply for the Tesla Motors gigafactory in Reno, Nevada16.


Tesla's still likely to grab some where cheaper than it costs them to extract it. It's like "fucking" capitalism. Ever heard of that?


----------



## westwall

Old Rocks said:


> Most trucks do not do 300 miles in a day. In fact, there are many that do multiple trips in a day, and barely exceed 100 miles. For them, the Tesla is a real winner.





That's bullshit.  Over the road drivers average around 600 miles per day.  In town delivery drivers only do about 200 or so.

I think you are confusing the two.


----------



## westwall

Old Rocks said:


> Now three years later, Musk is 300 billion richer, and you are still spouting foolishness. LOL





Yes, he is a master of fleecing the taxpayer.


----------



## elektra

Elon Musk is nothing more than a con-man


----------



## westwall

elektra said:


> Elon Musk is nothing more than a con-man





No, he has some original thinking going on.  I will give him that, but he is a master of having the taxpayers pay for his work.


----------



## elektra

westwall said:


> No, he has some original thinking going on.  I will give him that, but he is a master of having the taxpayers pay for his work.


Original thinking? Certainly battery powered homes, or battery powered anything may be original but I would not call it smart. Batteries, to power our homes? That is a bit backwards, kind of when everyone had to have their own fire, instead of one power plant able to heat hundreds of thousands of homes.

I think people forget, that Elon Musk did not create Tesla. He certainly is lucky, having a father rich enough to afford him to go to one of the best universities in the World. A place where he certainly needed to be to make the deals that got him to where he is today. 

Today, though, he seems to be the world's biggest con man.


----------



## Captain Caveman

Old Rocks said:


> Tesla is hardly the only truck manufacturer going electric.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trucks | Freightliner Trucks
> 
> 
> Dedicated to providing superior trucks built to lower your real cost of ownership
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freightliner.com


There's an old saying, "A fool and their money are soon parted". And when you finally get round to putting your money where your mouth is and buy an EV, it just means another fool jumped onto the band wagon. Musk's bank account is full of fool's money, be sure to add to it, you're a prime candidate.


----------



## westwall

elektra said:


> Original thinking? Certainly battery powered homes, or battery powered anything may be original but I would not call it smart. Batteries, to power our homes? That is a bit backwards, kind of when everyone had to have their own fire, instead of one power plant able to heat hundreds of thousands of homes.
> 
> I think people forget, that Elon Musk did not create Tesla. He certainly is lucky, having a father rich enough to afford him to go to one of the best universities in the World. A place where he certainly needed to be to make the deals that got him to where he is today.
> 
> Today, though, he seems to be the world's biggest con man.





Yes, he is certainly a con man.  Paypal was mostly him.  And Space X is doing good R&D thanks to his ability to fleece the taxpayers.


----------



## elektra

westwall said:


> Yes, he is certainly a con man.  Paypal was mostly him.  And Space X is doing good R&D thanks to his ability to fleece the taxpayers.


Paypal, was it him or his brother?

Someone said SpaceX was mostly Soviet technology. I don't have the time to figure that out.


----------



## Old Rocks

westwall said:


> That's bullshit.  Over the road drivers average around 600 miles per day.  In town delivery drivers only do about 200 or so.
> 
> I think you are confusing the two.


And how many in town delivery trucks are there compared to the over the road trucks?


----------



## Old Rocks

elektra said:


> Paypal, was it him or his brother?
> 
> Someone said SpaceX was mostly Soviet technology. I don't have the time to figure that out.


You are not capable of figuring it out, in any case. LOL


----------



## Old Rocks

westwall said:


> Yes, he is certainly a con man.  Paypal was mostly him.  And Space X is doing good R&D thanks to his ability to fleece the taxpayers.


LOL  His cars are the most desired cars in the world. His rockets are now regularly delivering cargo to orbit for less cost than anyone else. Quite good accomplishments for a 'con' man.


----------



## Old Rocks

Captain Caveman said:


> There's an old saying, "A fool and their money are soon parted". And when you finally get round to putting your money where your mouth is and buy an EV, it just means another fool jumped onto the band wagon. Musk's bank account is full of fool's money, be sure to add to it, you're a prime candidate.


LOL  Looks like EV's are very popular in merry Old England;

Experts predict 2021 car registrations will finish just 1.9% ahead of Covid-blighted 2020 but sales of battery electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles defy the trends laid down by conventional cars. By comparison, overall registrations of new cars grew by 1.7% to 115,706 in November, after four consecutive months of decline, while electric vehicles continued to grow their share by higher proportions. 

Battery electric vehicles (BEVs) accounted for 21,726 registrations equating to 18.8% market share in November (up from 15.2% market share in October), while plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHEVs) registrations grew to 9.3% or 10,796 cars (up from 7.9% and 8,382 cars in October). 

The SMMT is predicting BEV registrations in 2021 will surpass all the numbers registered between 2010 and 2019, with about new 287,000 cars heading to showrooms. 

According to the latest vehicle stats, the EV market is booming. Electric passenger car sales increased by 186% in 2020 and today there are an estimated 300,000 EVs on the road in the UK and 600,000 plug-in hybrids.








						Electric car statistics - EV Data [Update: Nov 22] | heycar
					

As of October 2022, the latest electric vehicle market data, statistics and growth projections. Find anything and everything you need to know about EVs here.




					heycar.co.uk


----------



## elektra

Old Rocks said:


> You are not capable of figuring it out, in any case. LOL


And you simply believe, as if you are worshipping a religion


----------



## westwall

Old Rocks said:


> And how many in town delivery trucks are there compared to the over the road trucks?





Fewer.


----------



## Captain Caveman

Old Rocks said:


> LOL  Looks like EV's are very popular in merry Old England;
> 
> Experts predict 2021 car registrations will finish just 1.9% ahead of Covid-blighted 2020 but sales of battery electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles defy the trends laid down by conventional cars. By comparison, overall registrations of new cars grew by 1.7% to 115,706 in November, after four consecutive months of decline, while electric vehicles continued to grow their share by higher proportions.
> 
> Battery electric vehicles (BEVs) accounted for 21,726 registrations equating to 18.8% market share in November (up from 15.2% market share in October), while plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHEVs) registrations grew to 9.3% or 10,796 cars (up from 7.9% and 8,382 cars in October).
> 
> The SMMT is predicting BEV registrations in 2021 will surpass all the numbers registered between 2010 and 2019, with about new 287,000 cars heading to showrooms.
> 
> According to the latest vehicle stats, the EV market is booming. Electric passenger car sales increased by 186% in 2020 and today there are an estimated 300,000 EVs on the road in the UK and 600,000 plug-in hybrids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electric car statistics - EV Data [Update: Nov 22] | heycar
> 
> 
> As of October 2022, the latest electric vehicle market data, statistics and growth projections. Find anything and everything you need to know about EVs here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heycar.co.uk


EV's are booming so well, you bought one too.

There are many fools in the UK buying them, the ban on the sale of new ICE vehicles is not until 2030, so the fools are starting soon, just when prices are nice and high. Like I said, a fool and their money are soon parted. Thank you for the stats on the current level of fools.


----------



## westwall

Captain Caveman said:


> EV's are booming so well, you bought one too.
> 
> There are many fools in the UK buying them, the ban on the sale of new ICE vehicles is not until 2030, so the fools are starting soon, just when prices are nice and high. Like I said, a fool and their money are soon parted. Thank you for the stats on the current level of fools.






Oh, olfraud hasn't bought one.  He may be invested in tesla, considering how much he bleats about them, but he is far too poor to afford an EV of his own.


----------



## Captain Caveman

westwall said:


> Oh, olfraud hasn't bought one.  He may be invested in tesla, considering how much he bleats about them, but he is far too poor to afford an EV of his own.


I know, bit I love to remind him. As hypocrites go, he sure loves Tesla. Poor Rocks is one of those that finds things in his own life too tricky to deal with, so to impress his friends and family, he jumps onto a current social issue and runs with it. Quite sad tbh.


----------



## Old Rocks

westwall said:


> Fewer.


Dumb ass liar;

*How many trucks operate in the U.S.?*
Estimates of 15.5 million trucks operate in the U.S.. Of this figure 2 million are tractor trailers.








						Trucking Statistics | TruckInfo.net
					

The culmination of our team's industry research.




					www.truckinfo.net


----------



## Old Rocks

Captain Caveman said:


> I know, bit I love to remind him. As hypocrites go, he sure loves Tesla. Poor Rocks is one of those that finds things in his own life too tricky to deal with, so to impress his friends and family, he jumps onto a current social issue and runs with it. Quite sad tbh.


Say what you want, Tesla is going to continue to be very successful, and EV's are eventually going to be the dominate vehicles on the road. And a lot sooner than you neanderthals think.


----------



## Captain Caveman

Old Rocks said:


> Say what you want, Tesla is going to continue to be very successful, and EV's are eventually going to be the dominate vehicles on the road. And a lot sooner than you neanderthals think.


Not popular enough to be on your driveway, Mr. Pseudo Moralistic Stance.


----------



## Viacheslav

elektra said:


> I think people forget, that Elon Musk did not create Tesla. He certainly is lucky, having a father rich enough to afford him to go to one of the best universities in the World. A place where he certainly needed to be to make the deals that got him to where he is today.



To be honest there are many people with rich dads or even richer dads than Musk, but I don’t see many of them who have achieved at least half of what Musk  has achieved.


----------



## elektra

Viacheslav said:


> To be honest there are many people with rich dads or even richer dads than Musk, but I don’t see many of them who have achieved at least half of what Musk  has achieved.


Very true, because it is musk that is thee most subsidized by my money, our money, taxes.


----------



## Bob Blaylock

Old Rocks said:


> You mean that the present semi's make that trip without stopping anywhere along the way? LOL



  When a conventional semi has to stop for fuel, how long does it take to refuel it?

  When this electric semi has to stop to be recharged, how long does it take to recharge it?


----------



## Old Rocks

Bob Blaylock said:


> When a conventional semi has to stop for fuel, how long does it take to refuel it?
> 
> When this electric semi has to stop to be recharged, how long does it take to recharge it?


There are far more short haul trucks on the road than there are long haul trucks. And, as the batteries increase in energy density and decrease in charging time, even that advantage will be lost to ICE engines. There is also another factor. Diesel trucks struggle up steep inclines, where the EV trucks will only be limited on speed going up those inclines by the curves. So, it may take longer at present to charge an EV semi, but if it arrives an hour sooner, then it will already be on the road again by the time the diesel gets to the station.


----------



## Grumblenuts

Old Rocks said:


> Diesel trucks struggle up steep inclines, where the EV trucks will only be limited on speed going up those inclines by the curves.


?


----------



## Bob Blaylock

Old Rocks said:


> And, as the batteries increase in energy density and decrease in charging time, even that advantage will be lost to ICE engines.



  I don't doubt that it eventually will happen.  But given where we are now with this, and how long it has taken to get to this point, I do seriously doubt that it will happen within my lifetime or yours.

  We are nowhere near being able to store the same amount of energy in a form useful in an electric vehicle, in a given mass or volume, than where we are as far as being able to store that same amount of energy in a given mass and volume of gasoline; nor are we anywhere near being able to transfer that energy into an electric vehicle at anywhere near a comparable rate to pumping gasoline into a normal vehicle.


----------



## elektra

Old Rocks said:


> There are far more short haul trucks on the road than there are long haul trucks. And, as the batteries increase in energy density and decrease in charging time, even that advantage will be lost to ICE engines. There is also another factor. Diesel trucks struggle up steep inclines, where the EV trucks will only be limited on speed going up those inclines by the curves. So, it may take longer at present to charge an EV semi, but if it arrives an hour sooner, then it will already be on the road again by the time the diesel gets to the station.


Diesel trucks struggle up steep inclines? Now you are not talking about short hauls, and again we must point out that we will not be able to wait 48 hours for a huge EV semi battery to charge. And it does take a larger battery much longer to charge.

What is it old crock, long or short hauls. 

Your EV battery will overheat going up the grapevine in the middle of summer, unless you pull the hill very slow. Your argument was made in ignorance and confusion. Get it straight, long or short hauls?


----------



## Old Rocks

elektra said:


> Diesel trucks struggle up steep inclines? Now you are not talking about short hauls, and again we must point out that we will not be able to wait 48 hours for a huge EV semi battery to charge. And it does take a larger battery much longer to charge.
> 
> What is it old crock, long or short hauls.
> 
> Your EV battery will overheat going up the grapevine in the middle of summer, unless you pull the hill very slow. Your argument was made in ignorance and confusion. Get it straight, long or short hauls?


Once again, you post shit, and expect people to believe it. 

The recently announced Tesla Semi concept design has the largest advertised range of 500 miles with a target *80% charge in 30 minutes*. The battery pack is estimated to be at least 800 kWh (likely much higher to cover full load and all conditions) and must have a target charge rate of at approximately 1.5 MW.Aug 9, 2021








						Company Announces 1 MW Wireless Charging For Tesla Semi
					

WAVE, a subsidiary of Ideanomics, has announced it is creating a wireless EV charging solution designed to work with the Tesla Semi.




					insideevs.com


----------



## Grumblenuts

Okay, I see what you're saying now. EVs have more power available at all times, whether for maintaining speed, accelerating, or braking:


> The biggest problem with trucks is how SLOW they go compared to most other vehicles. Truckers I've talked to hate driving in heavy traffic because regaining highway speeds takes a half mile or more, and stopping suddenly like most cars is nearly out of the question. Trucks struggle to go up hills at normal highway speeds, struggle to hold speed going down hills, and just generally struggle to do anything at all.
> 
> Performance with heavy loads is what sets the Tesla Semi apart when it comes to safety. With a full 80,000 pound load (a typical semi-truck max load), it can get to *60 MPH is just 20 seconds*, and can haul these loads up steep grades at 65 MPH. Compared to diesel trucks, this is beyond night and day. It means impatient drivers won't be struggling to pass slow trucks and taking dumb risks. It means they'll be able to go with the normal speed of traffic, or at least a lot closer to it.


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## Viacheslav

Old Rocks said:


> And, as the batteries increase in energy density and decrease in charging time, even that advantage will be lost to ICE engines.


the battery will probably increase the energy density, but the charging time faces physical obstacles, if you want to charge say 100 kWh in five minutes, you will need 100 kWh * 60/5 = 1200 MW power, and I don't yet take into account efficiency, energy losses and the possibility of charging the battery with such a high current.



Old Rocks said:


> Diesel trucks struggle up steep inclines, where the EV trucks will only be limited on speed going up those inclines by the curves.


EV trucks also have a problem with steep inclines, which causes huge electric currents from the battery to the inverter and the electric motor, which also requires the battery to have a large reserve of energy density so that it can in principle give away such currents and not "explode".


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## Blues Man

mamooth said:


> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.


They can't carry as much as a Diesel semi can because the batteries are part of the gross vehicle weight


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## Grumblenuts

Blues Man said:


> They can't carry as much as a Diesel semi can because the batteries are part of the gross vehicle weight


Yeah, it always amazed me how they managed to deduct the fuel weight at the scale house without even asking me what the gauge read.


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## Grumblenuts

Now you got me thinking.. Does a fully charged EV weigh more? Has anyone ever actually bothered to weigh one just to test this guy's old sand particle theory?




__





						Weighty Matters Involving Electrons
					

Have you ever wondered how much the electrons that power our car weigh?




					www.tesla.com


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## mamooth

Strange, so much necroing of a 4-year-old thread. Oh, I see. Westwall was getting pissy, so he brought it back.

If you've read my posts over the past 4 years, you'd know that I've become quite not-thrilled with Elon Musk and Tesla. I consider Musk to be a borderline scammer. Hyperloop and The Boring Company were a bad joke. Musk didn't even write the code for PayPal. He just bought the company. He's purely a businessman, and not any kind of tech guru. Tesla cars are overpriced, and the company has wasted many billions on self-driving features that don't work, just because Musk demands it. We're already several years past the point where Musk predicted millions of self-driving Teslas would be working as taxis.

Now, the semis. How much do they weigh, unladen? That is the key. Semis on US highways are limited to 40 tons total weight. There are other restrictions on weight-per-axle, but let's just look at that one.

A good guess is 25 tons for the 500-mile range truck.

An unladen diesel semi will be around 18 tons.

So, 15 tons of cargo on a tesla, 22 tons on a diesel. The diesel hauls 50% more cargo.

Cargo capacity is everything. "How fast does it do 0-60?" said no trucking company, ever. That means electric trucks (Tesla isn't the only one building them) start out as niche products.


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## westwall

mamooth said:


> Strange, so much necroing of a 4-year-old thread. Oh, I see. Westwall was getting pissy, so he brought it back.
> 
> If you've read my posts over the past 4 years, you'd know that I've become quite not-thrilled with Elon Musk and Tesla. I consider Musk to be a borderline scammer. Hyperloop and The Boring Company were a bad joke. Musk didn't even write the code for PayPal. He just bought the company. He's purely a businessman, and not any kind of tech guru. Tesla cars are overpriced, and the company has wasted many billions on self-driving features that don't work, just because Musk demands it. We're already several years past the point where Musk predicted millions of self-driving Teslas would be working as taxis.
> 
> Now, the semis. How much do they weigh, unladen? That is the key. Semis on US highways are limited to 40 tons total weight. There are other restrictions on weight-per-axle, but let's just look at that one.
> 
> A good guess is 25 tons for the 500-mile range truck.
> 
> An unladen diesel semi will be around 18 tons.
> 
> So, 15 tons of cargo on a tesla, 22 tons on a diesel. The diesel hauls 50% more cargo.
> 
> Cargo capacity is everything. "How fast does it do 0-60?" said no trucking company, ever. That means electric trucks (Tesla isn't the only one building them) start out as niche products.





You should try using math better.  A vehicle traveling at 45 mph, is going to move more cargo than one that can do 65, but has to spend 30 minutes charging at zero mph.


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## mamooth

westwall said:


> You should try using math better.  A vehicle traveling at 45 mph, is going to move more cargo than one that can do 65,


I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, since the vehicles will be traveling at the same speed.



westwall said:


> but has to spend 30 minutes charging at zero mph.


Which is why I said niche product. If a truck is doing day runs, charging it at night results in no down time.


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## Bob Blaylock

mamooth said:


> I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, since the vehicles will be traveling at the same speed.



  If one vehicle drives for half an hour at 65 MPH, and then has to stop for half an hour to recharge, while another vehicle drives for that same total hour at 45 MPH, which one has the greater effective speed?  Which one carried its cargo further in that hour?  Which vehicle made more money for its owners?


----------



## westwall

Bob Blaylock said:


> If one vehicle drives for half an hour at 65 MPH, and then has to stop for half an hour to recharge, while another vehicle drives for that same total hour at 45 MPH, which one has the greater effective speed?  Which one carried its cargo further in that hour?  Which vehicle made more money for its owners?




And, which one starts out 50,000 in the hole compared to the other.


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## Bob Blaylock

westwall said:


> And, which one starts out 50,000 in the hole compared to the other.



  And which one can carry more cargo, because it doesn't have a big, heavy battery counting against its 80,000-pount limit?

  But math is _“racist”_, and genuine science is _“transphobic”_, which is probably why the *LI*bt*AR*d*S* in this thread are having so much trouble understanding all of this.


----------



## Grumblenuts

Keep in mind that Tesla has so far beaten its own expectations once models are finally delivered. Additionally, diesel truck fuel stops typically also take considerable time. Companies have generally required a 15 minute minimum logged on duty/not driving and the DOT can now easily verify fueling times and places whether or not one pays cash.


----------



## Grumblenuts

westwall said:


> You should try using math better.  A vehicle traveling at 45 mph, is going to move more cargo than one that can do 65, but has to spend 30 minutes charging at zero mph.


LOL. The one doing 65 can log doing 65 which allows them to legally drive much further per day, not to mention getting the job done easier and faster. You armchair experts really are a hoot with all your stabs in the dark.


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## westwall

Grumblenuts said:


> LOL. The one doing 65 can log doing 65 which allows them to legally drive much further per day, not to mention getting the job done easier and faster. You armchair experts really are a hoot with all your stabs in the dark.






Clearly you don't understand math either.  Typical leftist.


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## Grumblenuts

> production is planned in 2023.[2]


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

mamooth said:


> Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.
> 
> This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi
> 
> 300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.
> 
> Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.
> 
> Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.


That piece of shit is going to be a maintenance money pit.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

Shrimpbox said:


> Couldn’t this be a case of don’t look over here look at this shiny object.
> 
> I learned today from a dot guy you can’t use water on a tesla car fire. I said what do you use then? Something that takes oxygen out of the air? Hope you aren’t caught in an overturned tesla vehicle on fire.
> 
> There is no info on the truck batteries. There is no price target. Delivery dates are fungible. Charging stations are nonexistent. Charging times are not available. Could ISIS have designed a better truck to commit terror with. Trust but verify.


The Tesla big truck weighs about 30,000 pounds.  There's no way that's going to work...lol


----------



## Bob Blaylock

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> That piece of shit is going to be a maintenance money pit.



  It shouldn't be.

  One advantage that I have to grant to electric vehicles, is that on paper, at least, they ought to be much easier and cheaper to maintain.  Anyone have any idea how many moving parts are in a typical internal combustion engine?  I once tried to add up in my head, all the moving parts I could think of in the engine of the car that I had at the time—a 1996 Ford Contour with the 2.5-liter V6 engine.  Pistons, connecting rods,, valve train components and such, multiplied by six cylinders.  Crankshaft, camshafts, fuel pump, water pump, etc.  I was somewhere around a hundred when I could think of no more moving parts.

  I don't know enough about the anatomy of my current car to make a similar tally.  It's only got four cylinders, but I know that the valve train is considerably more complex.  And my next vehicle, ordered a few months ago, and estimated to arrive some time next year, will have six cylinders, and be even more complex than my present engine.  The complexity of automobile engines has grown considerably since my first car, a 1969 Falcon with an inline six cylinder engine that was extraordinarily simple and primitive compared to anything modern.

  Do you know how many moving parts a typical electric motor has?

  One.  It has one moving part.

  And because it has a much broader power band than an internal combustion engine, and is electrically-reversible, it does not need nearly as complex a transmission, if any transmission at all.

  Mechanically, an electric vehicle is much simpler than an internal-combustion-engined vehicle, in ways that ought to translate to a lower cost to manufacture in the first place, much greater reliability, and much, much less maintenance.

  It's the battery that ruins everything.  Too low in capacity, compared to a tank of gasoline.  Too slow to charge, compared to pumping gasoline.  Too short a usable life, and way too expensive to replace, when it wears out.  Did you see the story of someone who protested the cost to replace the battery in his Tesla—I think it was about $22,000—by dynamiting his Tesla instead?  The battery technology, and the technology and the infrastructure for charging it, is going to have to get much, much, much better than I have any reason to anticipate within my lifetime, before electric vehicles will be practical for most of us.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

Bob Blaylock said:


> It shouldn't be.
> 
> One advantage that I have to grant to electric vehicles, is that on paper, at least, they ought to be much easier and cheaper to maintain.  Anyone have any idea how many moving parts are in a typical internal combustion engine?  I once tried to add up in my head, all the moving parts I could think of in the engine of the car that I had at the time—a 1996 Ford Contour with the 2.5-liter V6 engine.  Pistons, connecting rods,, valve train components and such, multiplied by six cylinders.  Crankshaft, camshafts, fuel pump, water pump, etc.  I was somewhere around a hundred when I could think of no more moving parts.
> 
> I don't know enough about the anatomy of my current car to make a similar tally.  It's only got four cylinders, but I know that the valve train is considerably more complex.  And my next vehicle, ordered a few months ago, and estimated to arrive some time next year, will have six cylinders, and be even more complex than my present engine.  The complexity of automobile engines has grown considerably since my first car, a 1969 Falcon with an inline six cylinder engine that was extraordinarily simple and primitive compared to anything modern.
> 
> Do you know how many moving parts a typical electric motor has?
> 
> One.  It has one moving part.
> 
> And because it has a much broader power band than an internal combustion engine, and is electrically-reversible, it does not need nearly as complex a transmission, if any transmission at all.
> 
> Mechanically, an electric vehicle is much simpler than an internal-combustion-engined vehicle, in ways that ought to translate to a lower cost to manufacture in the first place, much greater reliability, and much, much less maintenance.
> 
> It's the battery that ruins everything.  Too low in capacity, compared to a tank of gasoline.  Too slow to charge, compared to pumping gasoline.  Too short a usable life, and way too expensive to replace, when it wears out.  Did you see the story of someone who protested the cost to replace the battery in his Tesla—I think it was about $22,000—by dynamiting his Tesla instead?  The battery technology, and the technology and the infrastructure for charging it, is going to have to get much, much, much better than I have any reason to anticipate within my lifetime, before electric vehicles will be practical for most of us.


The cost to find a qualified mechanic will be the killer, plus what moving parts it does have will cost a small fortune.  Getting the parts in hand will cost a lot in down time.  Down time is the biggest problem with a breakdown.


----------



## Bob Blaylock

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> The Tesla big truck weighs about 30,000 pounds.  There's no way that's going to work...lol



  It occurs to me, among all the stuff that I know, I'm missing the actual weight of the tractor or trailer.

  I know that the maximum limit on the gross weight of the vehicle and its cargo is 80,000 pounds.

  I know that when I loaded trucks at the Campbell Soup factory, we were typically allowed to put 40,000 pounds of cargo in one truck.

  I know that a day cab was about 2,000 pounds lighter, so we could put 42,000 pounds in a truck that had a day cab.

  Contrariwise, a refrigerated trailer had an additional 2,000 pounds on the front of it for the refrigeration unit, so we could only put 18,000 pounds in one of those.  Furthermore, the 2,000 pounds at the from affected how we had to distribute the weight of the cargo.

  I had become the unofficial _Keeper of the Trailer Loading Patterns_.  See the attached document.

  That was some time ago.  That factory shut down in 2013, and I was sent off to find a new career in a new profession.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe

Bob Blaylock said:


> It occurs to me, among all the stuff that I know, I'm missing the actual weight of the tractor or trailer.
> 
> I know that the maximum limit on the gross weight of the vehicle and its cargo is 80,000 pounds.
> 
> I know that when I loaded trucks at the Campbell Soup factory, we were typically allowed to put 40,000 pounds of cargo in one truck.
> 
> I know that a day cab was about 2,000 pounds lighter, so we could put 42,000 pounds in a truck that had a day cab.
> 
> Contrariwise, a refrigerated trailer had an additional 2,000 pounds on the front of it for the refrigeration unit, so we could only put 18,000 pounds in one of those.  Furthermore, the 2,000 pounds at the from affected how we had to distribute the weight of the cargo.
> 
> I had become the unofficial _Keeper of the Trailer Loading Patterns_.  See the attached document.
> 
> That was some time ago.  That factory shut down in 2013, and I was sent off to find a new career in a new profession.


I've seen two sources stating the weight of the Tesla tractor.  One is 25k and another says 30k.  A tractor pulling a reefer weighs 35k empty.  A tandem axle truck can legally weigh 34k, a little more under certain circumstances.  If the Tesla actually weighs that much, it won't be able to haul very much freight.


----------



## Old Rocks

Bob Blaylock said:


> It shouldn't be.
> 
> One advantage that I have to grant to electric vehicles, is that on paper, at least, they ought to be much easier and cheaper to maintain.  Anyone have any idea how many moving parts are in a typical internal combustion engine?  I once tried to add up in my head, all the moving parts I could think of in the engine of the car that I had at the time—a 1996 Ford Contour with the 2.5-liter V6 engine.  Pistons, connecting rods,, valve train components and such, multiplied by six cylinders.  Crankshaft, camshafts, fuel pump, water pump, etc.  I was somewhere around a hundred when I could think of no more moving parts.
> 
> I don't know enough about the anatomy of my current car to make a similar tally.  It's only got four cylinders, but I know that the valve train is considerably more complex.  And my next vehicle, ordered a few months ago, and estimated to arrive some time next year, will have six cylinders, and be even more complex than my present engine.  The complexity of automobile engines has grown considerably since my first car, a 1969 Falcon with an inline six cylinder engine that was extraordinarily simple and primitive compared to anything modern.
> 
> Do you know how many moving parts a typical electric motor has?
> 
> One.  It has one moving part.
> 
> And because it has a much broader power band than an internal combustion engine, and is electrically-reversible, it does not need nearly as complex a transmission, if any transmission at all.
> 
> Mechanically, an electric vehicle is much simpler than an internal-combustion-engined vehicle, in ways that ought to translate to a lower cost to manufacture in the first place, much greater reliability, and much, much less maintenance.
> 
> It's the battery that ruins everything.  Too low in capacity, compared to a tank of gasoline.  Too slow to charge, compared to pumping gasoline.  Too short a usable life, and way too expensive to replace, when it wears out.  Did you see the story of someone who protested the cost to replace the battery in his Tesla—I think it was about $22,000—by dynamiting his Tesla instead?  The battery technology, and the technology and the infrastructure for charging it, is going to have to get much, much, much better than I have any reason to anticipate within my lifetime, before electric vehicles will be practical for most of us.


You are wrong about useable life. Much higher than that of a diesel engine. That story was a hoot. There are people that repair those batteries for a lost less. 80% of truck routes are less than 500 miles, and very few loads are anywhere near to load limit of the truck.

"Fast forward to 2021, and it appears that the Tesla Semi’s payload will be comparable to a Class 8 diesel truck, according to the company’s Impact Report 2020.

There are two main reasons for that: Tesla has made significant advancements in battery technology since 2017, and US and EU regulators have since approved higher weight allowances for heavy-duty electric trucks.

Starting with the latter, Tesla’s Impact Report 2020 states that in the European Union, electric semi trucks are allowed to be 2 tonnes (4,400 lbs) heavier than diesel equivalents, while in the US the allowance is 0.9 tonnes (2,000 lbs)."








						Tesla Semi Payload To Be At Least As High As For A Diesel Truck
					

Tesla says the Semi will have a payload "at least as high as it would be for a diesel truck" in its Impact Report 2020.




					insideevs.com


----------



## Old Rocks

This is for the overhaul of a semi truck engine, not a new engine;

"If you have questions or need help, we are here for you. Class 8 engine overhaul prices can vary greatly depending on factors such as engine make, overhaul level, and the shop that will perform the engine work. Typically, certified engine overhauls range anywhere from *$20,000 to $40,000*."






						How Much Does A Truck Engine Overhaul Cost? Check out these tips.
					

Owner operators facing truck engine trouble ask "What does a truck engine overhaul cost and how can I afford it". CAG can help get you through.




					cagtruckcapital.com
				




Most semi's with good maintenance will last about 750,000 miles. The Tesla Semi is guaranteed for 1 million miles.


----------



## Grumblenuts

Bob Blaylock said:


> I know that a day cab was about 2,000 pounds lighter, so we could put 42,000 pounds in a truck that had a day cab.
> 
> Contrariwise, a refrigerated trailer had an additional 2,000 pounds on the front of it for the refrigeration unit, so we could only put 18,000 pounds in one of those.


43,000 was my norm, day cab or no. No heavy Peterbilts or KWs. Did have to rearrange the furniture often though. Btw, you meant 38,000, not 18,000. Speaking of Peterbilts.. already selling electrics. Eat your heart out, Wild Bill.


----------

