# PC or Apple?



## Luddly Neddite

I've been hemming and hawing for months about buying a new laptop. I've had nothing but PC's but also have iPhone and iPad. The PC I have now is a Toshiba Satellite P775-S7215, second Toshiba I've had and third in my family. I've liked them before but this thing has been nothing but one problem after another. 

So which do you have and what do you like/not like about it?

If you were buying, what would you choose?

Also, where do you think the best buy is?


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## hjmick

IBM Selectric...


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## Truthseeker420

hjmick said:


> IBM Selectric...


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## hjmick

Truthseeker420 said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> IBM Selectric...
Click to expand...



Typewriter. It was a joke.


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## Truthseeker420

hjmick said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
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> hjmick said:
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> 
> 
> IBM Selectric...
> 
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typewriter. It as a joke.
Click to expand...


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## Immanuel

Truthseeker420 said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Typewriter. It as a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that.  Guess you are not as old as I am... which is a good thing, mind you!


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## hjmick

Ah shit...






I'm fucking old...


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## Immanuel

Luddly Neddite said:


> I've been hemming and hawing for months about buying a new laptop. I've had nothing but PC's but also have iPhone and iPad. The PC I have now is a Toshiba Satellite P775-S7215, second Toshiba I've had and third in my family. I've liked them before but this thing has been nothing but one problem after another.
> 
> So which do you have and what do you like/not like about it?
> 
> If you were buying, what would you choose?
> 
> Also, where do you think the best buy is?



Last Apple I owned was a IIe or maybe it was a IIc  Lord, that goes back a long way!  All I remember about it was that after buying it, I found out I could not expand it with anything but a printer.  I was not happy and never even looked at Apple again.  Of course, surely things have changed with Apple, right?


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## Immanuel

hjmick said:


> Ah shit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking old...



Yep!  We are.


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## Truthseeker420

Immanuel said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typewriter. It as a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that.  Guess you are not as old as I am... which is a good thing, mind you!
Click to expand...


Age is a state of mind. When they were mashing us in the Navy I used the story of an 86 year old man running a marathon  to get though it.


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## Indofred

Immanuel said:


> Last Apple I owned was a IIe or maybe it was a IIc  Lord, that goes back a long way!  All I remember about it was that after buying it, I found out I could not expand it with anything but a printer.  I was not happy and never even looked at Apple again.  Of course, surely things have changed with Apple, right?



How wrong you were.
My place of employment at that time used Apple IIs to run the average weight system for the factory's production.
The add ons were many and varied; the problem seems to be, you had no clue about them.

However, I wouldn't buy an Apple anything as they are at the moment.
You pay more for something that does less and is harder to get anything for.


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## Toro

Apple.

I went through 3 PCs in 18 months.

I was so disgusted, I walked into a CompUSA and bought an iMac on the spot, even though I'd never used an Apple before.  I've never looked back.


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## Ringel05

Apple or Mac?  Depends on what you want.  Toro's experience with PCs isn't normal unless one is buying their PCs from Acme all the time.......  
My personal take is Apple is over-hyped, over-priced and overly restrictive (software, etc.).


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## Indofred

^
Ditto.

Apple stuff is made so you can pretty much only use what Apple say you can use.
That makes me less than interested in their stuff.


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## Delta4Embassy

Luddly Neddite said:


> I've been hemming and hawing for months about buying a new laptop. I've had nothing but PC's but also have iPhone and iPad. The PC I have now is a Toshiba Satellite P775-S7215, second Toshiba I've had and third in my family. I've liked them before but this thing has been nothing but one problem after another.
> 
> So which do you have and what do you like/not like about it?
> 
> If you were buying, what would you choose?
> 
> Also, where do you think the best buy is?



Invoice for the pc I'm on right now says Feb 99. So my knowledge is a tad out of date  And I never got into laptops. Fact they're all proprietary always put me off (vs a 'desktop' which can be customized picking every component which this one was, and why it's lasted so long.) 

I would never buy a laptop as a result. If portability and convenience is a thing go for it. They're not bad, I just personally don't care for having to compromise on performance, but they're loosable and stealable. 

For gaming, laptops aren't ideal as most of their monitors have such high video lag it's somewhat oxymoronic if you're paying a premium for 3d performance, yet the lag on the monitor is so high it doesn't show you that performance. 

For internet usage, and some recreational video/photo uses (i.e. porn, let's be honest hehe) pretty much anything will do these days as performance now is super cheap relative to how little power you really need (as my p2 400 and 384MBs RAM shows.)

As ever though my suggestion is always buy from someplace local so when you wanna get it upgraded, or fixed it isn't about mailing it somewhere and hoping for the best but just driving somewhere and watching them fiddle with it in front of you (just be sure to encrypt stuff needing to be encrypted hehe.)


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## longknife

hjmick said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> IBM Selectric...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typewriter. It as a joke.
Click to expand...


I can't even begin to count the number of documents I wrote on a Selectric - and all the White Out I used.

And then - I got an IBM MST Selectric, probably one of the first ever word processors.

Here's what I've been told -

If you want a machine that's great for graphics, go with the MAC


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## Ringel05

longknife said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typewriter. It as a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't even begin to count the number of documents I wrote on a Selectric - and all the White Out I used.
> 
> And then - I got an IBM MST Selectric, probably one of the first ever word processors.
> 
> Here's what I've been told -
> 
> *If you want a machine that's great for graphics, go with the MAC*
Click to expand...


Ten + years ago I would have agreed with that completely.  Not true any longer.


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## Luddly Neddite

hjmick said:


> Ah shit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking old...



There, there ... Don't feel bad. I remember them well. 

but hell, I remember ancient manual typewriters that could break your pinkie fingers just trying to hit those furthest keys.


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## Big Black Dog

I have an Apple desk top computer and a MacBook Pro.  Love 'em both.  My wife has a PC lap top.  She loves it.  Like driving a Chevy and a Ford.  Both are good.  Just a matter of what you like the best.


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## Luddly Neddite

Toro said:


> Apple.
> 
> I went through 3 PCs in 18 months.
> 
> I was so disgusted, I walked into a CompUSA and bought an iMac on the spot, even though I'd never used an Apple before.  I've never looked back.



That's how I'm feeling about my pc right now - I could throw it off the deck and not care.

I have a friend who has had the same Mac forever and loves it because viruses are never a threat, work horse tough, never goes out of date. 

The newer Macs are very expensive but if its the last computer I ever buy, it would be worth it. 

Yes, I want, need and prefer a laptop for the convenience and portability. Would not consider going back to the dinosaur desktop. 

Hate buying from a box store but my Toshiba will not back up anything onto disk or stick. I need a pro to do that for me and that might mean a trip to the big city to go to Best Buy. 

Decisions, decisions, decisions ...


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## Luddly Neddite

longknife said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typewriter. It as a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't even begin to count the number of documents I wrote on a Selectric - and all the White Out I used.
> 
> And then - I got an IBM MST Selectric, probably one of the first ever word processors.
> 
> Here's what I've been told -
> *
> Edited to add: From here on is my post .... *
> 
> White out and carbon paper.
> 
> Learning "touch typing" and shorthand in high school.
> 
> Now little kids learn "keyboarding" in 2nd grade or earlier.
> 
> Something I used to miss are the old fasioned typewriter erasers. They were wonderful for graphite drawing. Now though, they've been replaced with better erasers for drawing so its all good.
Click to expand...


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## Pennywise

Toro said:


> Apple.
> 
> I went through 3 PCs in 18 months.
> 
> I was so disgusted, I walked into a CompUSA and bought an iMac on the spot, even though I'd never used an Apple before.  I've never looked back.



Exactly. Apple lives up to their rep. Been using them for close to 20 years. I have PC's too, and they are like dimestore junk.


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## Pennywise

BTW, you can get a Mac Mini very cheap, and they are great.


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## Luddly Neddite

Pennywise said:


> BTW, you can get a Mac Mini very cheap, and they are great.



I like the big screen. 

My Toshiba is bigger than 17". I'll miss that if I go to a Mac Pro and I have an iPad for when we travel.

We're also considering another iPad before our France trip this March. Its that or we have to share ...


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

I have a laptop PC, a Droid, and an iPod, so I've got the whole spetrum


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## Uncensored2008

Luddly Neddite said:


> I've been hemming and hawing for months about buying a new laptop. I've had nothing but PC's but also have iPhone and iPad. The PC I have now is a Toshiba Satellite P775-S7215, second Toshiba I've had and third in my family. I've liked them before but this thing has been nothing but one problem after another.
> 
> So which do you have and what do you like/not like about it?
> 
> If you were buying, what would you choose?
> 
> Also, where do you think the best buy is?



It depends on what you are doing. Even today, Mac is not very compatible with popular software. If all you do is a few office apps and Facebook, a Mac is an okay (albeit expensive) choice.

But if you need compatibility with most software, it Mac isn't a good choice.


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## Uncensored2008

longknife said:


> I can't even begin to count the number of documents I wrote on a Selectric - and all the White Out I used.
> 
> And then - I got an IBM MST Selectric, probably one of the first ever word processors.
> 
> Here's what I've been told -
> 
> If you want a machine that's great for graphics, go with the MAC



Must be 1990...

Actually, Photoshop CS5 performs better on Windows 7, using the identical CPU, graphics card, and amount of RAM, than on Mac. (Though PC's have faster memory than Mac with DDR3 hitting 3600) Windows is a more efficient operating system than OSX.


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## Big Black Dog

Luddly Neddite said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apple.
> 
> I went through 3 PCs in 18 months.
> 
> I was so disgusted, I walked into a CompUSA and bought an iMac on the spot, even though I'd never used an Apple before.  I've never looked back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's how I'm feeling about my pc right now - I could throw it off the deck and not care.
> 
> I have a friend who has had the same Mac forever and loves it because viruses are never a threat, work horse tough, never goes out of date.
> 
> The newer Macs are very expensive but if its the last computer I ever buy, it would be worth it.
> 
> Yes, I want, need and prefer a laptop for the convenience and portability. Would not consider going back to the dinosaur desktop.
> 
> Hate buying from a box store but my Toshiba will not back up anything onto disk or stick. I need a pro to do that for me and that might mean a trip to the big city to go to Best Buy.
> 
> Decisions, decisions, decisions ...
Click to expand...


If you've decided to buy an Apple I recommend you either go to an Apple store or give them a call on the phone to discuss exactly what you would like your new computer to do.  They can help you build one exactly to fit your needs plus if you go to the Apple store somebody there will be able to answer any questions you might have fully and you won't get the knucklehead at a box store who only knows what somebody told him to say.


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## Big Black Dog

Uncensored2008 said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't even begin to count the number of documents I wrote on a Selectric - and all the White Out I used.
> 
> And then - I got an IBM MST Selectric, probably one of the first ever word processors.
> 
> Here's what I've been told -
> 
> If you want a machine that's great for graphics, go with the MAC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must be 1990...
> 
> Actually, Photoshop CS5 performs better on Windows 7, using the identical CPU, graphics card, and amount of RAM, than on Mac. (Though PC's have faster memory than Mac with DDR3 hitting 3600) Windows is a more efficient operating system than OSX.
Click to expand...


I have to disagree with you.  I have Photoshop CS5 installed on my iMac and it works perfectly fine.


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## WorldWatcher

>

I'm a PC guy and I'm typing this on a Dell as we speak.  However I work in a school environment and everyone else has Mac's

One thing I do like about Mac's is their "Time Machine" which make backups seemless and very efficient.


>>>>


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## Uncensored2008

Big Black Dog said:


> I have to disagree with you.  I have Photoshop CS5 installed on my iMac and it works perfectly fine.



Irrelevant.

Anand did a shootout running CS5 on a Mac with a 2nd gen I7 2600 on both a Windows based PC and a Power Mac, Both machines had 8gb of DDR 3, though the PC was clocked at 3600, Anand underclocked it down to 1600 to make it fair.

On virtually identical hardware, the Windows machine significantly out performed the Mac. The story has scrolled, but it was very detailed.


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## Uncensored2008

WorldWatcher said:


> >
> 
> I'm a PC guy and I'm typing this on a Dell as we speak.  However I work in a school environment and everyone else has Mac's
> 
> One thing I do like about Mac's is their "Time Machine" which make backups seemless and very efficient.
> 
> 
> >>>>



On the PC, for home backups I highly recommend Syncback.

2BrightSparks | SyncBackFree, SyncBackSE, and SyncBackPro

It's a snapshot system and completely hands off. So you get multiple points of recovery with no effort past the initial replication.


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## SmedlyButler

Luddly Neddite said:


> I've been hemming and hawing for months about buying a new laptop. I've had nothing but PC's but also have iPhone and iPad. The PC I have now is a Toshiba Satellite P775-S7215, second Toshiba I've had and third in my family. I've liked them before but this thing has been nothing but one problem after another.
> 
> So which do you have and what do you like/not like about it?
> 
> If you were buying, what would you choose?
> 
> Also, where do you think the best buy is?



I'm sort of maybe in the market. I'm really tempted by the Lenovo Yoga2. It's a hybrid that lets you take full advantage of Win8 touch screen advantages in tablet mode or you can use it in traditional laptop mode. And it has an awesome 3,200x1,800 display that should keep you happy for a few years. I'm just in the browsing stage now but I'd really like something that doesn't seem obsolete in a year. It runs around a grand just about anywhere so that's a reasonable hit I think.


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## Uncensored2008

SmedlyButler said:


> I'm sort of maybe in the market. I'm really tempted by the Lenovo Yoga2. It's a hybrid that lets you take full advantage of Win8 touch screen advantages in tablet mode or you can use it in traditional laptop mode. And it has an awesome 3,200x1,800 display that should keep you happy for a few years. I'm just in the browsing stage now but I'd really like something that doesn't seem obsolete in a year. It runs around a grand just about anywhere so that's a reasonable hit I think.



I have a Surface Pro II - and adore it. Same concept of a hybrid. It's tablet size, 10.8 inch but with an I5, 8gb DDR3 and a 512gb SSD. I have a 17 inch Alienware that collects dust, the surface is that good.

Microsoft Surface Pro 2 Review - Laptop Replacement - LAPTOP


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## Ringel05

I like apples but I prefer them in pies, crisps, cobblers and cakes.


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## Uncensored2008

Ringel05 said:


> I like apples but I prefer them in pies, crisps, cobblers and cakes.



My first experience with Macs was a bad one. We acquired a company with about 80 Macs back in the late 90's. The damned things were so virus infected that they were unusable. We were trying to get inventory data and some basic job shop information off of them, but the virus would make them crash every 10 seconds or so. They had no cleaning software availible to the public, such as all that was common for the PC. So we had to hire some arrogant prick of a Mac expert to clean them. Naturally he was incompetent and didn't grasp the concept of networks. He'd clean one, and another would reinfect it. We finally isolated a couple of machines, cleaned them, and threw the rest away, because it was too expensive to disinfect the damned thing. Never liked Macs after that - all the lies about them not getting viruses only increased my disdain for them.

Then when I got my MBA, I wrote a profile on Apple, in which I did extensive research into their management models, investment strategies, off-shoring and distributed processing initiatives, etc. I found that Apple is about the shittiest company their is. Sergey Brin is right, Apple is evil, with a malevolence toward customer and employee alike. 

So, I'm no fan of Apple...


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## edthecynic

Indofred said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last Apple I owned was a IIe or maybe it was a IIc  Lord, that goes back a long way!  All I remember about it was that after buying it, I found out I could not expand it with anything but a printer.  I was not happy and never even looked at Apple again.  Of course, surely things have changed with Apple, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How wrong you were.
> My place of employment at that time used Apple IIs to run the average weight system for the factory's production.
> The add ons were many and varied; the problem seems to be, you had no clue about them.
> 
> However, I wouldn't buy an Apple anything as they are at the moment.
> You pay more for something that does less and is harder to get anything for.
Click to expand...

Just as He was wrong about MacIIs, they had NuBus slots for expansion, you are wrong about current Macs. They are expandable via PCIe slots.


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## edthecynic

Uncensored2008 said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like apples but I prefer them in pies, crisps, cobblers and cakes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first experience with Macs was a bad one. We acquired a company with about 80 Macs back in the late 90's.* The damned things were so virus infected that they were unusable. *We were trying to get inventory data and some basic job shop information off of them, but the virus would make them crash every 10 seconds or so. *They had no cleaning software availible to the public,* such as all that was common for the PC. So we had to hire some arrogant prick of a Mac expert to clean them. Naturally he was incompetent and didn't grasp the concept of networks. He'd clean one, and another would reinfect it. We finally isolated a couple of machines, cleaned them, and threw the rest away, because it was too expensive to disinfect the damned thing. Never liked Macs after that - all the lies about them not getting viruses only increased my disdain for them.
> 
> Then when I got my MBA, I wrote a profile on Apple, in which I did extensive research into their management models, investment strategies, off-shoring and distributed processing initiatives, etc. I found that Apple is about the shittiest company their is. Sergey Brin is right, Apple is evil, with a malevolence toward customer and employee alike.
> 
> So, I'm no fan of Apple...
Click to expand...

Bullshit! 

Not only were viruses rare, there was Norton Utilities, which later became Norton Systemworks, which can clean up an infected computer. Someone took advantage of your Mac ignorance.


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## edthecynic

Uncensored2008 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been hemming and hawing for months about buying a new laptop. I've had nothing but PC's but also have iPhone and iPad. The PC I have now is a Toshiba Satellite P775-S7215, second Toshiba I've had and third in my family. I've liked them before but this thing has been nothing but one problem after another.
> 
> So which do you have and what do you like/not like about it?
> 
> If you were buying, what would you choose?
> 
> Also, where do you think the best buy is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on what you are doing. Even today, Mac is not very compatible with popular software. If all you do is a few office apps and Facebook, a Mac is an okay (albeit expensive) choice.
> 
> But if you need compatibility with most software, it Mac isn't a good choice.
Click to expand...

Actually you can boot into Windows on a Mac, so you can run any program on a mac.


*Windows on Intel Macs*

There are presently several alternatives for running Windows on Intel Macs.

   1. Install the Apple Boot Camp software.  Purchase Windows 
         XP w/Service Pak2, Vista, or Windows 7.  For Boot Camp 
         4.0 and above you can only use Windows 7 or later. Follow 
         instructions in the Boot Camp documentation on 
         installation of Boot Camp, creating Driver CD, and 
         installing Windows.  Boot Camp enables you to boot the 
         computer into OS X or Windows.
     2. Parallels Desktop for Mac and Windows XP, Vista Business, 
         Vista Ultimate, or Windows 7.  Parallels is software 
         virtualization that enables running Windows concurrently 
         with OS X.
     3. VM Fusion and Windows XP, Vista Business, Vista Ultimate, 
         or Windows 7.  VM Fusion is software virtualization that 
         enables running Windows concurrently with OS X.
     4. CrossOver which enables running many Windows 
         applications without having to install Windows.  The 
         Windows applications can run concurrently with OS X.
     5. VirtualBox is an Open Source freeware virtual machine such 
         as VM Fusion and Parallels that was developed by Solaris. 
         It is not as fully developed for the Mac as Parallels and VM 
         Fusion.

Note  that VirtualBox, Parallels, and VM Fusion can also run other operating  systems such as Linux, Unix, OS/2, Solaris, etc.  There are performance  differences between dual-boot systems and virtualization.  The latter  tend to be a little slower (not much) and do not provide the video  performance of the dual-boot system. See MacTech Labs- Virtualization Benchmarks, January 2013 | MacTech for  comparisons of Boot Camp, Parallels, and VM Fusion. Boot Camp is only  available with Leopard or Snow Leopard. Except for Crossover and a  couple of similar alternatives like DarWine you must have a valid  installer disc for Windows.

You must also have an internal optical drive for installing Windows. Windows cannot be installed from an external optical drive.


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## Uncensored2008

edthecynic said:


> Just as He was wrong about MacIIs, they had NuBus slots for expansion, you are wrong about current Macs. They are expandable via PCIe slots.



They (Apple) are running Foxconn motherboards that are functionally identical to a Foxconn you'd buy at Frys to build a PC. Other than limiting memory to 1600, there is virtually no difference on a hardware level between a modern Mac and PC using sub-standard Foxconn components. 

Foxconn H61AP LGA 1155 Intel H61 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com


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## Uncensored2008

edthecynic said:


> Bullshit!
> 
> Not only were viruses rare, there was Norton Utilities, which later became Norton Systemworks, which can clean up an infected computer. Someone took advantage of your Mac ignorance.



I looked at Norton, which had no antivirus for Mac in the late 90's. Tools abounded for Windows systems, but Mac was a vast wasteland.Remember, Apple was just about out of the game at that point. This was before Jobs came back.

OSX is BSD (Unix) based and is vastly better than the Mac OS of the time, which was utter shit. Once Mac moved to BSD, there were many more tools availible, and Symantec started supporting them. I believe those piles of shit were on System 6.


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## edthecynic

Uncensored2008 said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as He was wrong about MacIIs, they had NuBus slots for expansion, you are wrong about current Macs. They are expandable via PCIe slots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They (Apple) are running Foxconn motherboards that are functionally identical to a Foxconn you'd buy at Frys to build a PC. Other than limiting memory to 1600, there is virtually no difference on a hardware level between a modern Mac and PC using sub-standard Foxconn components.
> 
> Foxconn H61AP LGA 1155 Intel H61 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
Click to expand...

You can install the Mac OS on a PC, commonly called a Hackintosh.


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## Defiant1

I have only owned PCs.  I like opening them up, upgrading, etc.  Much more flexibility with a PC.

I use Microsoft Office for a lot of database and spreadsheet programs. People tell me you can run Office on an Apple but many people have problems with it.

Then on the other hand, Rush Limbaugh swears by Apple.


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## Uncensored2008

edthecynic said:


> You can install the Mac OS on a PC, commonly called a Hackintosh.



Absolutely!

And you can run Windows, Mint, or Ubuntu on a Mac. Most of the people I know with Macbooks, run Windows 7 on them.


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## Uncensored2008

Defiant1 said:


> I have only owned PCs.  I like opening them up, upgrading, etc.  Much more flexibility with a PC.
> 
> I use Microsoft Office for a lot of database and spreadsheet programs. People tell me you can run Office on an Apple but many people have problems with it.
> 
> Then on the other hand, Rush Limbaugh swears by Apple.



Office on the Mac is very similar to Office 2010. I'm not aware of any issues with it. I've used the Mac version of Excel recently, and had no problems with it. It read and wrote standard XLSX files.


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## edthecynic

Defiant1 said:


> I have only owned PCs.  I like opening them up, upgrading, etc.  Much more flexibility with a PC.
> 
> I use Microsoft Office for a lot of database and spreadsheet programs. People tell me you can run Office on an Apple but many people have problems with it.
> 
> Then on the other hand, *Rush Limbaugh swears by Apple*.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Microsoft Office runs fine on a Mac, but you can also use the free Open Office or NeoOffice on a Mac.


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## SmedlyButler

Uncensored2008 said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like apples but I prefer them in pies, crisps, cobblers and cakes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first experience with Macs was a bad one. We acquired a company with about 80 Macs back in the late 90's. The damned things were so virus infected that they were unusable. We were trying to get inventory data and some basic job shop information off of them, but the virus would make them crash every 10 seconds or so. They had no cleaning software availible to the public, such as all that was common for the PC. So we had to hire some arrogant prick of a Mac expert to clean them. Naturally he was incompetent and didn't grasp the concept of networks. He'd clean one, and another would reinfect it. We finally isolated a couple of machines, cleaned them, and threw the rest away, because it was too expensive to disinfect the damned thing. Never liked Macs after that - all the lies about them not getting viruses only increased my disdain for them.
> 
> Then when I got my MBA, I wrote a profile on Apple, in which I did extensive research into their management models, investment strategies, off-shoring and distributed processing initiatives, etc. I found that Apple is about the shittiest company their is. Sergey Brin is right, Apple is evil, with a malevolence toward customer and employee alike.
> 
> So, I'm no fan of Apple...
Click to expand...


 I've been a pc guy forever because I like to tinker with the hardware and do my own upgrades and whatever. That's all a lot more convenient and cheaper with a pc. I've always felt Apple wants you to stay out of the innards.


----------



## edthecynic

SmedlyButler said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like apples but I prefer them in pies, crisps, cobblers and cakes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first experience with Macs was a bad one. We acquired a company with about 80 Macs back in the late 90's. The damned things were so virus infected that they were unusable. We were trying to get inventory data and some basic job shop information off of them, but the virus would make them crash every 10 seconds or so. They had no cleaning software availible to the public, such as all that was common for the PC. So we had to hire some arrogant prick of a Mac expert to clean them. Naturally he was incompetent and didn't grasp the concept of networks. He'd clean one, and another would reinfect it. We finally isolated a couple of machines, cleaned them, and threw the rest away, because it was too expensive to disinfect the damned thing. Never liked Macs after that - all the lies about them not getting viruses only increased my disdain for them.
> 
> Then when I got my MBA, I wrote a profile on Apple, in which I did extensive research into their management models, investment strategies, off-shoring and distributed processing initiatives, etc. I found that Apple is about the shittiest company their is. Sergey Brin is right, Apple is evil, with a malevolence toward customer and employee alike.
> 
> So, I'm no fan of Apple...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been a pc guy forever because I like to tinker with the hardware and do my own upgrades and whatever. That's all a lot more convenient and cheaper with a pc. I've always felt Apple wants you to stay out of the innards.
Click to expand...

Apple makes it easy to play with their innards.


----------



## Indeependent

Get the top of the line Mac Pro and you won't have to buy another laptop for about 6 years.
If a PC, shop for a top of the line Asus.
Go with Apple as you get what you pay for.


----------



## Ringel05

Apple or PC?  As I have stated numerous times it's a personal choice and has it's own Chevy, Ford "battle" going on.
For those who think Apple is indestructible all one has to do is look online for refurbished units, percentage wise it's about equal to PCs.  PCs have their issues also but as with all things man-made something's gonna break eventually.  
Are Apples virus proof?  Not at all it's simply that the vast majority of malware is written for Windows PCs, it's the biggest market, duh.....
With Apples, one pays more for a product which may or may not last as long as some here claim and is less versatile, in many ways than PCs.  Can one get a PC that will last as long or longer than an Apple, of course, I have PCs that are 10 years old and still running, I test Linux distributions on them. 
If you think Apple will work best for you then by all means, buy it.  If you think a Windows PC is your best bet then go for it.  If you think a Linux PC is the way to go buy a refurbished without an operating system and load Linux. 
Don't rely on others experiences to make your decision, go with what you want, go with your gut, it's that simple.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

edthecynic said:


> Defiant1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have only owned PCs.  I like opening them up, upgrading, etc.  Much more flexibility with a PC.
> 
> I use Microsoft Office for a lot of database and spreadsheet programs. People tell me you can run Office on an Apple but many people have problems with it.
> 
> Then on the other hand, *Rush Limbaugh swears by Apple*.
> 
> 
> 
> Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
> 
> Microsoft Office runs fine on a Mac, but you can also use the free Open Office or NeoOffice on a Mac.
Click to expand...


I hate Office and often have to use OpenFreely to get into old files.

Good to know I can still get into them if I go with a Mac.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Indeependent said:


> Get the top of the line Mac Pro and you won't have to buy another laptop for about 6 years.
> If a PC, shop for a top of the line Asus.
> Go with Apple as you get what you pay for.



I'm fed up with pc's that last a year or two and then start getting weird glitches. 

Not sure when I'll buy but will probably go with a top of the line Mac.


----------



## longknife

Uncensored2008 said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't even begin to count the number of documents I wrote on a Selectric - and all the White Out I used.
> 
> And then - I got an IBM MST Selectric, probably one of the first ever word processors.
> 
> Here's what I've been told -
> 
> If you want a machine that's great for graphics, go with the MAC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must be *1990.*..
> 
> Actually, Photoshop CS5 performs better on Windows 7, using the identical CPU, graphics card, and amount of RAM, than on Mac. (Though PC's have faster memory than Mac with DDR3 hitting 3600) Windows is a more efficient operating system than OSX.
Click to expand...


I was using a Selectric in the 70s!!!


----------



## Synthaholic

Ringel05 said:


> Apple or Mac?  Depends on what you want.  Toro's experience with PCs isn't normal unless one is buying their PCs from Acme all the time.......
> *My personal take is Apple is over-hyped, over-priced and overly restrictive (software, etc.)*.



Ringel NOT speak with forked tongue!

My personal opinion is to get a PC, then load Ubuntu onto it, creating a duel-boot machine.

Then use Ubuntu for all your web surfing.  Only boot to the Windows side if you need a specific Microsoft or Windows program.

I think if you are like most people, you will find that you can do 90% of what you want on the Ubuntu side (Open Office, Firefox, etc.) without having to ever worry about installing virus and malware protection.


----------



## Uncensored2008

This kills me, but I completely agree with Synthaholic...

(Did I REALLY just type that?)


----------



## Synthaholic

Uncensored2008 said:


> This kills me, but I completely agree with Synthaholic...
> 
> (Did I REALLY just type that?)


I saw that you thanked me, so I had to un-ignore you to see what you posted.

And I agree totally with Uncensored2008 agreeing with me!

It truly is a banner day at USMB!


----------



## Ringel05

Synthaholic said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apple or Mac?  Depends on what you want.  Toro's experience with PCs isn't normal unless one is buying their PCs from Acme all the time.......
> *My personal take is Apple is over-hyped, over-priced and overly restrictive (software, etc.)*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel NOT speak with forked tongue!
> 
> My personal opinion is to get a PC, then load Ubuntu onto it, creating a duel-boot machine.
> 
> Then use Ubuntu for all your web surfing.  Only boot to the Windows side if you need a specific Microsoft or Windows program.
> 
> I think if you are like most people, you will find that you can do 90% of what you want on the Ubuntu side (Open Office, Firefox, etc.) without having to ever worry about installing virus and malware protection.
Click to expand...


Uuummmm, there are viruses written for Linux.  Install Clam AV just in case.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ringel05 said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apple or Mac?  Depends on what you want.  Toro's experience with PCs isn't normal unless one is buying their PCs from Acme all the time.......
> *My personal take is Apple is over-hyped, over-priced and overly restrictive (software, etc.)*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel NOT speak with forked tongue!
> 
> My personal opinion is to get a PC, then load Ubuntu onto it, creating a duel-boot machine.
> 
> Then use Ubuntu for all your web surfing.  Only boot to the Windows side if you need a specific Microsoft or Windows program.
> 
> I think if you are like most people, you will find that you can do 90% of what you want on the Ubuntu side (Open Office, Firefox, etc.) without having to ever worry about installing virus and malware protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uuummmm, there are viruses written for Linux.  Install Clam AV just in case.
Click to expand...

There is built-in firewall and virus protection in Ubuntu.


----------



## edthecynic

Synthaholic said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apple or Mac?  Depends on what you want.  Toro's experience with PCs isn't normal unless one is buying their PCs from Acme all the time.......
> *My personal take is Apple is over-hyped, over-priced and overly restrictive (software, etc.)*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel NOT speak with forked tongue!
> 
> My personal opinion is to get a PC, then load Ubuntu onto it, creating a duel-boot machine.
> 
> Then use Ubuntu for all your web surfing.  Only boot to the Windows side if you need a specific Microsoft or Windows program.
> 
> I think if you are like most people, you will find that you can do 90% of what you want on the Ubuntu side (Open Office, Firefox, etc.) without having to ever worry about installing virus and malware protection.
Click to expand...

You can install Ubuntu on a Mac as well as Windows and have a triple boot machine and run everybody's SW.

How to Triple-Boot Your Mac with Windows and Linux, No Boot Camp Required


----------



## Ringel05

Synthaholic said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel NOT speak with forked tongue!
> 
> My personal opinion is to get a PC, then load Ubuntu onto it, creating a duel-boot machine.
> 
> Then use Ubuntu for all your web surfing.  Only boot to the Windows side if you need a specific Microsoft or Windows program.
> 
> I think if you are like most people, you will find that you can do 90% of what you want on the Ubuntu side (Open Office, Firefox, etc.) without having to ever worry about installing virus and malware protection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uuummmm, there are viruses written for Linux.  Install Clam AV just in case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is built-in firewall and virus protection in Ubuntu.
Click to expand...


Yeah, the name of the virus protection is Clam AV........  
Not everyone thinks or knows to install it from Software Center, it doesn't work automatically.


----------



## HenryBHough

Over the years I have had both PCs and Macs.

At the time I started using computers the logical choice (graphics were not yet a factor) was the PC for a long list of reasons.

BUT once the internet became a big factor things started to change.  You could count on the most popular browser, Internet Explorer, to expose you to every bit of malware out there.  Mac got a big edge because the operating system (OS) was much more resistant to most hackers and they didn't pay that much attention anyway because they wanted max damage out of least effort - there weren't that many Macs around to infect.

I shifted to an early iMac and those problems went away.  Then to a faster, slightly later, iMac and started using stuff like PhotoShop Elements and some engineering design programs.  On, then to a MacMini which performed as well as PCs that cost twice as much and took up much more space.

Then a 24-inch iMac - excellent machine and still in use.

Added a 27-inch iMac - fastest available at the time and still in use with a second screen.  Problem was that the version PhotoShop I used on the 24-inch won't run on the newer processor in the 27.  OK, learned a new version of PS but now it seems the version I'm using won't run on the latest (Mavericks) OS so I'm sorta stuck.  I also got locked into an earlier generation Appleworks package (word processing, spreadsheet, etc.) that won't run under Mavericks so I'm in a time warp.

Finally, an 11" MacBook AIR which is perfect for travel.  Upgraded it to Mavericks since I use a whole different set of programs on the road.  

All-in-all, I'm very happy with the Mac family but what someone else might like depends on where they are in their "computing life" and what they want to do.  Today the capabilities of both PC and Mac are about the same though the latest Windows (8.0) runs more like something you'd use on your smartphone. If you're a smartphone addict you'll find the PC with Windows 8.0 quite workable.  If you're a regular computer user with no love of the smartphone you'll hate the PC.  

Over the years I have found the Apple products more long-lasting and subject to fewer problems.  The tendency is to outgrow them with a need for more speed which, when quenched, results in incompatibility with programs to which you've grown attached.  It may be the same with Windows so caution all the way.

If you're a computer user think hard about some of the tablets.  To make them act the way you want you might have to add expensive accessories like keyboards, a mouse, and discover to your horror that many have NO usb port so everything has to be wireless.  Possibly meaning a new printer and God Only Knows what else.

Nice thing about PC laptops - you can buy them cheap.  If you do then back them up regularly because they will crap out pretty fast.  Nice, though, since they don't cost all that much and the replacement will do more and do it faster.

Good luck.....


----------



## edthecynic

HenryBHough said:


> Over the years I have had both PCs and Macs.
> 
> At the time I started using computers the logical choice (graphics were not yet a factor) was the PC for a long list of reasons.
> 
> BUT once the internet became a big factor things started to change.  You could count on the most popular browser, Internet Explorer, to expose you to every bit of malware out there.  Mac got a big edge because the operating system (OS) was much more resistant to most hackers and they didn't pay that much attention anyway because they wanted max damage out of least effort - there weren't that many Macs around to infect.
> 
> I shifted to an early iMac and those problems went away.  Then to a faster, slightly later, iMac and started using stuff like PhotoShop Elements and some engineering design programs.  On, then to a MacMini which performed as well as PCs that cost twice as much and took up much more space.
> 
> Then a 24-inch iMac - excellent machine and still in use.
> 
> Added a 27-inch iMac - fastest available at the time and still in use with a second screen.  Problem was that the version PhotoShop I used on the 24-inch won't run on the newer processor in the 27.  OK, learned a new version of PS but now it seems *the version I'm using won't run on the latest (Mavericks) OS *so I'm sorta stuck.  I also got locked into an earlier generation Appleworks package (word processing, spreadsheet, etc.) that won't run under Mavericks so I'm in a time warp.
> 
> Finally, an 11" MacBook AIR which is perfect for travel. * Upgraded it to Mavericks* since I use a whole different set of programs on the road.
> 
> All-in-all, I'm very happy with the Mac family but what someone else might like depends on where they are in their "computing life" and what they want to do.  Today the capabilities of both PC and Mac are about the same though the latest Windows (8.0) runs more like something you'd use on your smartphone. If you're a smartphone addict you'll find the PC with Windows 8.0 quite workable.  If you're a regular computer user with no love of the smartphone you'll hate the PC.
> 
> Over the years I have found the Apple products more long-lasting and subject to fewer problems.  The tendency is to outgrow them with a need for more speed which, when quenched, results in incompatibility with programs to which you've grown attached.  It may be the same with Windows so caution all the way.
> 
> If you're a computer user think hard about some of the tablets.  To make them act the way you want you might have to add expensive accessories like keyboards, a mouse, and discover to your horror that many have NO usb port so everything has to be wireless.  Possibly meaning a new printer and God Only Knows what else.
> 
> Nice thing about PC laptops - you can buy them cheap.  If you do then back them up regularly because they will crap out pretty fast.  Nice, though, since they don't cost all that much and the replacement will do more and do it faster.
> 
> Good luck.....


It is always best to wait before upgrading to a new OS and wait until the bugs are fixed and SW developers have caught up. Early adopters are basically beta testers. Even though the upgrade to Mavericks is FREE, I'm still running Mountain Lion for now.


----------



## jillian

hjmick said:


> Ah shit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking old...



better than the alternative.


----------



## HenryBHough

edthecynic said:


> It is always best to wait before upgrading to a new OS and wait until the bugs are fixed and SW developers have caught up. Early adopters are basically beta testers. Even though the upgrade to Mavericks is FREE, I'm still running Mountain Lion for now.



I agree.

Mavericks has proven stable since I installed it on the MacBook.  It has an intriguing new "MAIL" program however it thoughtfully allows the option of staying with the old human interface so would, for some, be a nasty learning curve is eliminated.  

In any case, new versions of PhotoShop Elements as likely required to work with Mavericks, are not free.  Since the version I'm using does all I need and I use it only on the 27" there was no need to hold back on updating the MacBook.  Since I have already begun shifting from AppleWorks to Pages and Numbers on the 27" the elimination of their functionality from the MacBook is of small consequence.  I do like the improved speed of Mavericks, impressive even though running on one of the earlier MacBooks.

Only thing I could seriously wish for on the MacBook is improved sensitivity for WiFi.  I often use it in Europe and it's too often a challenge to use hotel interconnection without hunting around in the building for a hot-enough spot.


----------



## veeder

I still prefer to use windows

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sunni Man

Bought a Macbook Pro 13" laptop in 2010

Had to replace the battery last year.

Other than that its been a work horse with no problems.    ..


----------



## Synthaholic

Sunni Man said:


> Bought a Macbook Pro 13" laptop in 2010
> 
> *Had to replace the battery last year.*
> 
> Other than that its been a work horse with no problems.    ..




I have found it is better to run your battery down before charging it again.  I used to always keep my laptops plugged in, but it made the batteries weak.


----------



## RKMBrown

Defiant1 said:


> I have only owned PCs.  I like opening them up, upgrading, etc.  Much more flexibility with a PC.
> 
> I use Microsoft Office for a lot of database and spreadsheet programs. People tell me you can run Office on an Apple but many people have problems with it.
> 
> Then on the other hand, Rush Limbaugh swears by Apple.



Use of MS office is slowly going the way of the dodo bird, being replaced over time by web based tools like google apps and other open source office tools.


----------



## RKMBrown

Buying an apple product is like buying a car destined to be a classic.  Buying a PC is like buying a disposable razor.  Most apple products retain their value and keep on working decades after purchase, when / if you are ready to upgrade to a new one you can sell the old one for really good money, just like a classic car.  With a PC they need to be replaced much sooner and when you do you can't even sell them for the value of the metals in the box.

Running linux on a PC or Mac?  Yeah that's like building a custom car. Not recommended for people who are not technically gifted.


----------



## Sunni Man

I find Apple laptops have the best feeling keys of any keyboard.

And I love that they are backlit for use in low light situations.    ..


----------



## Indeependent

Get Apple Care...It's worth it's weight in gold.
If something DOES go wrong, there's no passing the buck.
Use Pages and Numbers (Each $9.99) instead of the MS Office.


----------



## Iceweasel

Open source is the future and the future is here now, unless you have some specific software to run. Then that will dictate your choice.

I mostly used PCs, got to building my own and made lots of money over the years in business. At home I eventually went with a iMac, then a MacBook Pro. Both eventually died. Meanwhile I converted the PC to Linux. It's a steeper learning curve but worth it if you can manage. I have three distros and XP on this one, mostly using Debian. 

The open source stuff is good these days and in most cases better than anything I had for Windows or Macs. And it's free.


----------



## RKMBrown

Synthaholic said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bought a Macbook Pro 13" laptop in 2010
> 
> *Had to replace the battery last year.*
> 
> Other than that its been a work horse with no problems.    ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have found it is better to run your battery down before charging it again.  I used to always keep my laptops plugged in, but it made the batteries weak.
Click to expand...


Depends on what the battery is made of, more modern battery tech does not have that problem.  Another issue that may arise is operating temperature.  Extreme heat and cold can seriously damage battery life.


----------



## RKMBrown

Iceweasel said:


> Open source is the future and the future is here now, unless you have some specific software to run. Then that will dictate your choice.
> 
> I mostly used PCs, got to building my own and made lots of money over the years in business. At home I eventually went with a iMac, then a MacBook Pro. Both eventually died. Meanwhile I converted the PC to Linux. It's a steeper learning curve but worth it if you can manage. I have three distros and XP on this one, mostly using Debian.
> 
> The open source stuff is good these days and in most cases better than anything I had for Windows or Macs. And it's free.



Both died?  I lost a hard drive on my 6year old mac book pro.. replaced it and added memory and it's running great.  I have an 11y old powerPC based iMac that is still running great. Put your stuff on eBay you'll be amazed at what you can get for it.


----------



## Ringel05

RKMBrown said:


> Buying an apple product is like buying a car destined to be a classic.  Buying a PC is like buying a disposable razor.  Most apple products retain their value and keep on working decades after purchase, when / if you are ready to upgrade to a new one you can sell the old one for really good money, just like a classic car.  With a PC they need to be replaced much sooner and when you do you can't even sell them for the value of the metals in the box.
> 
> Running linux on a PC or Mac?  Yeah that's like building a custom car. *Not recommended for people who are not technically gifted.*



Then you are unfamiliar with the current Ubuntu and Mint distros.


----------



## Indeependent

My son bought the Mac Air 13"...The display is crystal clear.
He installed Wine and is running his Windows programs as needed.
The last two Macs lasted at least five years with no issues.
My daughters entire grade went Mac about five years ago and none of them would buy a PC.


----------



## Synthaholic

Ringel05 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buying an apple product is like buying a car destined to be a classic.  Buying a PC is like buying a disposable razor.  Most apple products retain their value and keep on working decades after purchase, when / if you are ready to upgrade to a new one you can sell the old one for really good money, just like a classic car.  With a PC they need to be replaced much sooner and when you do you can't even sell them for the value of the metals in the box.
> 
> Running linux on a PC or Mac?  Yeah that's like building a custom car. *Not recommended for people who are not technically gifted.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are unfamiliar with the current Ubuntu and Mint distros.
Click to expand...

Or Zorin:

*Make Switching From Windows To Linux Easier With Zorin OS*

*snip*

It&#8217;s not that Linux is hard to use or understand, but it simply doesn&#8217;t fit the Windows  mindset that most people have. Expecting to do everything in Linux  exactly like in Windows is where problems start appearing, which can  easily deter a good number of users. Thankfully, there is now a Linux  distribution that could make the process a whole lot easier.

*snip*


----------



## Synthaholic

*The Best Linux Distros*


----------



## RKMBrown

Synthaholic said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buying an apple product is like buying a car destined to be a classic.  Buying a PC is like buying a disposable razor.  Most apple products retain their value and keep on working decades after purchase, when / if you are ready to upgrade to a new one you can sell the old one for really good money, just like a classic car.  With a PC they need to be replaced much sooner and when you do you can't even sell them for the value of the metals in the box.
> 
> Running linux on a PC or Mac?  Yeah that's like building a custom car. *Not recommended for people who are not technically gifted.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are unfamiliar with the current Ubuntu and Mint distros.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or Zorin:
> 
> *Make Switching From Windows To Linux Easier With Zorin OS*
> 
> *snip*
> 
> Its not that Linux is hard to use or understand, but it simply doesnt fit the Windows  mindset that most people have. Expecting to do everything in Linux  exactly like in Windows is where problems start appearing, which can  easily deter a good number of users. Thankfully, there is now a Linux  distribution that could make the process a whole lot easier.
> 
> *snip*
Click to expand...


My favorite unix based shell is the mac.  You should try it they've put a lot of effort into it.  I'll give a couple of the new linux distros a try, but I spent 16years writing operating systems for a living so when I go to "use" one I like it to be clean, fully functional, and get the job done in a sparkly way that I'm familiar with.  Sort of like a classic chevy.  Yeah the new stuff may work, but why spend the time money and effort to switch to something completely different that just does not have the same snap or feel as you are used to.


----------



## Ringel05

RKMBrown said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are unfamiliar with the current Ubuntu and Mint distros.
> 
> 
> 
> Or Zorin:
> 
> *Make Switching From Windows To Linux Easier With Zorin OS*
> 
> *snip*
> 
> Its not that Linux is hard to use or understand, but it simply doesnt fit the Windows  mindset that most people have. Expecting to do everything in Linux  exactly like in Windows is where problems start appearing, which can  easily deter a good number of users. Thankfully, there is now a Linux  distribution that could make the process a whole lot easier.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My favorite unix based shell is the mac.  You should try it they've put a lot of effort into it.  I'll give a couple of the new linux distros a try, but I spent 16years writing operating systems for a living so when I go to "use" one I like it to be clean, fully functional, and get the job done in a sparkly way that I'm familiar with.  Sort of like a classic chevy.  Yeah the new stuff may work, *but why spend the time money and effort to switch to something completely different that just does not have the same snap or feel as you are used to.*
Click to expand...


Because some people aren't locked into a specific paradigm and are willing to explore and learn based on their abilities, wants and needs.  While I still use Win7 for many applications I prefer Linux for everything else.  Why Linux as opposed to Mac?  Because Linux is free and while I first started using it when the learning curve was still steep it's progressed to a point where the typical user will experience a nearly seamless transition with the "snap" you're looking for.  Much to the chagrin of the Linux purists.


----------



## Darkwind

Immanuel said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been hemming and hawing for months about buying a new laptop. I've had nothing but PC's but also have iPhone and iPad. The PC I have now is a Toshiba Satellite P775-S7215, second Toshiba I've had and third in my family. I've liked them before but this thing has been nothing but one problem after another.
> 
> So which do you have and what do you like/not like about it?
> 
> If you were buying, what would you choose?
> 
> Also, where do you think the best buy is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last Apple I owned was a IIe or maybe it was a IIc  Lord, that goes back a long way!  All I remember about it was that after buying it, I found out I could not expand it with anything but a printer.  I was not happy and never even looked at Apple again.  Of course, surely things have changed with Apple, right?
Click to expand...

Umm......Yeah....I think.....




But you know, trying to compare the two is  nothing but apple's to pc's.....


----------



## Iceweasel

RKMBrown said:


> My favorite unix based shell is the mac.  You should try it they've put a lot of effort into it.  I'll give a couple of the new linux distros a try, but I spent 16years writing operating systems for a living so when I go to "use" one I like it to be clean, fully functional, and get the job done in a sparkly way that I'm familiar with.  Sort of like a classic chevy.  Yeah the new stuff may work, but why spend the time money and effort to switch to something completely different that just does not have the same snap or feel as you are used to.


I'm only familiar with the Debian based distros and all were similar. More like a Mac than Windows except better file management and programs are fast, fast to install, easier than Mac and much easier than Windows. 

I read that the Google Android developers are using a modified version of Mint for development. 

Debian stable (Wheezy) has been the most solid of all distros, Mac and Windows with the smallest overhead. But I couldn't use it unless I got my feet wet first in Ubuntu, Zorin and Mint.


----------



## RKMBrown

Iceweasel said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> My favorite unix based shell is the mac.  You should try it they've put a lot of effort into it.  I'll give a couple of the new linux distros a try, but I spent 16years writing operating systems for a living so when I go to "use" one I like it to be clean, fully functional, and get the job done in a sparkly way that I'm familiar with.  Sort of like a classic chevy.  Yeah the new stuff may work, but why spend the time money and effort to switch to something completely different that just does not have the same snap or feel as you are used to.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm only familiar with the Debian based distros and all were similar. More like a Mac than Windows except better file management and programs are fast, fast to install, easier than Mac and much easier than Windows.
> 
> I read that the Google Android developers are using a modified version of Mint for development.
> 
> Debian stable (Wheezy) has been the most solid of all distros, Mac and Windows with the smallest overhead. But I couldn't use it unless I got my feet wet first in Ubuntu, Zorin and Mint.
Click to expand...


ok... I suppose it might be time to give em a shot again.  Last couple I tried was about 5y ago and they were just a mess.  When I'm debugging O/Ses I like to get paid.


----------



## Iceweasel

RKMBrown said:


> ok... I suppose it might be time to give em a shot again.  Last couple I tried was about 5y ago and they were just a mess.  When I'm debugging O/Ses I like to get paid.


I started about three years ago and was up and running with the first install. You do not need to install at first, you can run in "live" mode. Burn the iso image to a cd or dvd and boot up on that. It will run slow but you can test it out. It's also possible with a memory stick but a bit different.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ringel05 said:


> Yeah, the name of the virus protection is Clam AV........
> Not everyone thinks or knows to install it from Software Center, it doesn't work automatically.



I love Android, I really do. But it has pushed Linux into the mainstream, and that means it's a target now. TONS of viruses targeting Linux these days. Not all the Android viruses will attack general Linux, but a good percentage will.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Iceweasel said:


> I started about three years ago and was up and running with the first install. You do not need to install at first, you can run in "live" mode. Burn the iso image to a cd or dvd and boot up on that. It will run slow but you can test it out. It's also possible with a memory stick but a bit different.



True, but you'll get an inferior experience. It will run slower and lack many drivers, such as display drivers (I'm talking to you, Mint) and sometimes critical system drivers. I generally recommend just installing. It doesn't take much disk space for Ubuntu or Mint.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I started about three years ago and was up and running with the first install. You do not need to install at first, you can run in "live" mode. Burn the iso image to a cd or dvd and boot up on that. It will run slow but you can test it out. It's also possible with a memory stick but a bit different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but you'll get an inferior experience. It will run slower and lack many drivers, such as display drivers (I'm talking to you, Mint) and sometimes critical system drivers. I generally recommend just installing. It doesn't take much disk space for Ubuntu or Mint.
Click to expand...


Anyone recommend a good (and free) updated partion magic like tool to set up a boot partition for trying these new distros out?


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I started about three years ago and was up and running with the first install. You do not need to install at first, you can run in "live" mode. Burn the iso image to a cd or dvd and boot up on that. It will run slow but you can test it out. It's also possible with a memory stick but a bit different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but you'll get an inferior experience. It will run slower and lack many drivers, such as display drivers (I'm talking to you, Mint) and sometimes critical system drivers. I generally recommend just installing. It doesn't take much disk space for Ubuntu or Mint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone recommend a good (and free) updated partion magic like tool to set up a boot partition for trying these new distros out?
Click to expand...


Honestly, Ubuntu does a great job on it's own, and sets up the multi-boot options for you.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but you'll get an inferior experience. It will run slower and lack many drivers, such as display drivers (I'm talking to you, Mint) and sometimes critical system drivers. I generally recommend just installing. It doesn't take much disk space for Ubuntu or Mint.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone recommend a good (and free) updated partion magic like tool to set up a boot partition for trying these new distros out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, Ubuntu does a great job on it's own, and sets up the multi-boot options for you.
> 
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot
Click to expand...


heh... instruction one: back up everything in case we screw up something


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone recommend a good (and free) updated partion magic like tool to set up a boot partition for trying these new distros out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, Ubuntu does a great job on it's own, and sets up the multi-boot options for you.
> 
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> heh... instruction one: back up everything in case we screw up something
Click to expand...


Absolutely!

Same step one Partition Magic had, back in the day... Messing with partitions is a lot safer than it used to be, but a power spike or the dog stepping on the surge protector switch could have devastating repercussions.


----------



## Iceweasel

RKMBrown said:


> Anyone recommend a good (and free) updated partion magic like tool to set up a boot partition for trying these new distros out?


As mentioned Ubuntu or any Debian based distro I've tried does this either automatically or you can manage the partitions during install. You can still manage partitions afterwards though with gnome Disk Manager or GParted. There are more but those seem to be the top ones. They both have their strong points so I use both.


----------



## RKMBrown

Iceweasel said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone recommend a good (and free) updated partion magic like tool to set up a boot partition for trying these new distros out?
> 
> 
> 
> As mentioned Ubuntu or any Debian based distro I've tried does this either automatically or you can manage the partitions during install. You can still manage partitions afterwards though with gnome Disk Manager or GParted. There are more but those seem to be the top ones. They both have their strong points so I use both.
Click to expand...


Hmm... ... maybe I'll just build a new box picking out stuff known to be well supported.  My external backup drive stopped working... I probably need to get that going first.  Been to lazy with keeping my lab up to date lately.  Such a user these days ;-)


----------



## HenryBHough

Since I already have backup drives for all three computers I feel somewhat secure.  If one of them (the backups) fails then I'll think hard about spending the same money I'd spend for a new one on a year or so of online backup.  Backing up locally is great if your computer crashes and burns but totally useless if the entire house or office burns, destroying computer and backup.

Of course at the time I bought the backup drives online backup services were very limited and a lot more expensive - else I might have just done it that way from the start.


----------



## RKMBrown

HenryBHough said:


> Since I already have backup drives for all three computers I feel somewhat secure.  If one of them (the backups) fails then I'll think hard about spending the same money I'd spend for a new one on a year or so of online backup.  Backing up locally is great if your computer crashes and burns but totally useless if the entire house or office burns, destroying computer and backup.
> 
> Of course at the time I bought the backup drives online backup services were very limited and a lot more expensive - else I might have just done it that way from the start.



Yeah I've been gradually putting the important data up on the net, but there's just no privacy at all to that, so I'm thinking about going all private now.


----------



## HenryBHough

RKMBrown said:


> Yeah I've been gradually putting the important data up on the net, but there's just no privacy at all to that, so I'm thinking about going all private now.



About the only way to do that is to reserve one computer for personal stuff and keep it from ever connecting to the internet by any means.  That might include housing it in a Farraday cage (copper lined, grounded room)!  Oh, then check every person entering the room to be sure they have no portable media with them.  Buy lotsa latex gloves for the essential cavity searches - those thumb drives can be hidden in the damndest places.


----------



## RKMBrown

HenryBHough said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I've been gradually putting the important data up on the net, but there's just no privacy at all to that, so I'm thinking about going all private now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the only way to do that is to reserve one computer for personal stuff and keep it from ever connecting to the internet by any means.  That might include housing it in a Farraday cage (copper lined, grounded room)!  Oh, then check every person entering the room to be sure they have no portable media with them.  Buy lotsa latex gloves for the essential cavity searches - those thumb drives can be hidden in the damndest places.
Click to expand...


Hmm..


----------



## Iceweasel

I put all of my saved data on a separate partition just for storage. I also copy it to a thumb drive and a usb drive. I have used numerous Linux distros and always have access to the storage drive, after mounting it manually. You can mount/unmount with a mouse click.


----------



## RKMBrown

Iceweasel said:


> I put all of my saved data on a separate partition just for storage. I also copy it to a thumb drive and a usb drive. I have used numerous Linux distros and always have access to the storage drive, after mounting it manually. You can mount/unmount with a mouse click.



Yup.. all the really important stuff is backed up on encrypted thumb drives. But the photos and videos.. are to big. Wish I could trust apple's cloud or google drive to be kept from our government's grubby fingers.  It just feels dirty knowing they are going through your things.


----------



## Synthaholic

RKMBrown said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I put all of my saved data on a separate partition just for storage. I also copy it to a thumb drive and a usb drive. I have used numerous Linux distros and always have access to the storage drive, after mounting it manually. You can mount/unmount with a mouse click.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.. all the really important stuff is backed up on encrypted thumb drives. But the photos and videos.. are to big. Wish I could trust apple's cloud or google drive to be kept from our government's grubby fingers. * It just feels dirty knowing they are going through your things*.
Click to expand...



^^^ Delusional.


----------



## RKMBrown

Synthaholic said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I put all of my saved data on a separate partition just for storage. I also copy it to a thumb drive and a usb drive. I have used numerous Linux distros and always have access to the storage drive, after mounting it manually. You can mount/unmount with a mouse click.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.. all the really important stuff is backed up on encrypted thumb drives. But the photos and videos.. are to big. Wish I could trust apple's cloud or google drive to be kept from our government's grubby fingers. * It just feels dirty knowing they are going through your things*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Delusional.
Click to expand...


lol you thinking your electronic data is private.. yeah that's delusional.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Yup.. all the really important stuff is backed up on encrypted thumb drives. But the photos and videos.. are to big. Wish I could trust apple's cloud or google drive to be kept from our government's grubby fingers.  It just feels dirty knowing they are going through your things.



I'm an MCSE, Watchguard certified, and Palo Alto certified.

One of the first things you learn about electronic security is that no one cares. The government doesn't care about your personal information, your life is most likely boring. What most cyber-snooping is about is an attempt to gain personal information to use for identity theft or direct assaults on credit/banking accounts.

Even a simple NAT based firewall, such as the one found in virtually every consumer based router, will thwart 99% of hacking attempts. Vulnerability remains internal, in other words, no one outside is very likely to hack your computer or gain access to your hard drives. You still are at greatest risk from spyware programs that install on your machine and infect web browsers to capture SS# and Credit Card info as you fill in online forms.


----------



## Synthaholic

RKMBrown said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.. all the really important stuff is backed up on encrypted thumb drives. But the photos and videos.. are to big. Wish I could trust apple's cloud or google drive to be kept from our government's grubby fingers. * It just feels dirty knowing they are going through your things*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Delusional.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol you thinking your electronic data is private.. yeah that's delusional.
Click to expand...


It _is _private until their is a reason to investigate it.

If you think that your everyday cloud contents are being perused by Big Gummint, then yes, you are delusional.


----------



## Synthaholic

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.. all the really important stuff is backed up on encrypted thumb drives. But the photos and videos.. are to big. Wish I could trust apple's cloud or google drive to be kept from our government's grubby fingers.  It just feels dirty knowing they are going through your things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm an MCSE, Watchguard certified, and Palo Alto certified.
> 
> One of the first things you learn about electronic security is that no one cares. The government doesn't care about your personal information, your life is most likely boring. What most cyber-snooping is about is an attempt to gain personal information to use for identity theft or direct assaults on credit/banking accounts.
> 
> Even a simple NAT based firewall, such as the one found in virtually every consumer based router, will thwart 99% of hacking attempts. Vulnerability remains internal, in other words, no one outside is very likely to hack your computer or gain access to your hard drives. You still are at greatest risk from spyware programs that install on your machine and infect web browsers to capture SS# and Credit Card info as you fill in online forms.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the hell has gotten into you, but you're actually making sense lately.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.. all the really important stuff is backed up on encrypted thumb drives. But the photos and videos.. are to big. Wish I could trust apple's cloud or google drive to be kept from our government's grubby fingers.  It just feels dirty knowing they are going through your things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm an MCSE, Watchguard certified, and Palo Alto certified.
> 
> One of the first things you learn about electronic security is that no one cares. The government doesn't care about your personal information, your life is most likely boring. What most cyber-snooping is about is an attempt to gain personal information to use for identity theft or direct assaults on credit/banking accounts.
> 
> Even a simple NAT based firewall, such as the one found in virtually every consumer based router, will thwart 99% of hacking attempts. Vulnerability remains internal, in other words, no one outside is very likely to hack your computer or gain access to your hard drives. You still are at greatest risk from spyware programs that install on your machine and infect web browsers to capture SS# and Credit Card info as you fill in online forms.
Click to expand...


lol... 

Yeah and my point was your firewall is pointless when the data goes out the door via google drive, apple cloud, gmail, smtp, .. or on this forum.  

Sure govco employees don't care ... right up till their software links a few words together that trigger their automated alert systems.   Then the weight of the authoritarian system comes crashing down on ya and people with storm trooper uniforms come banging on your door to see if you were just posing on a forum or if you really are a guy who likes liberty enough to fight for it.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> lol...
> 
> Yeah and my point was your firewall is pointless when the data goes out the door via google drive, apple cloud, gmail, smtp, .. or on this forum.
> 
> Sure govco employees don't care ... right up till their software links a few words together that trigger their automated alert systems.   Then the weight of the authoritarian system comes crashing down on ya and people with storm trooper uniforms come banging on your door to see if you were just posing on a forum or if you really are a guy who likes liberty enough to fight for it.



You're hitting a key point, yet missing it.

Yes, what happens in the so called cloud is crawled over by millions of spiders and web crawlers, looking for patterns to pitch you products in the form of popup ads, etc.

But that isn't on your computer, that's on the internet. You have ZERO expectation of privacy on the net. 

Want a safe and secure backup? Use a replication software like Syncback to move files to a portable drive. Turn the drive off when not in use. You are about as safe as possible. Powered down drives don't fail. 

I keep all my photos backed up on a drive that only gets turned on when I upload new ones. It's not going to fail, because it has maybe 10 hours of use on it.


----------



## RKMBrown

Synthaholic said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Delusional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol you thinking your electronic data is private.. yeah that's delusional.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It _is _private until their is a reason to investigate it.
> 
> If you think that your everyday cloud contents are being perused by Big Gummint, then yes, you are delusional.
Click to expand...


Dude, every thing is scanned. Nothing goes unturned.  Every single text message.  Every single email. Everything gets scanned. EVERYTHING


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol...
> 
> Yeah and my point was your firewall is pointless when the data goes out the door via google drive, apple cloud, gmail, smtp, .. or on this forum.
> 
> Sure govco employees don't care ... right up till their software links a few words together that trigger their automated alert systems.   Then the weight of the authoritarian system comes crashing down on ya and people with storm trooper uniforms come banging on your door to see if you were just posing on a forum or if you really are a guy who likes liberty enough to fight for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're hitting a key point, yet missing it.
> 
> Yes, what happens in the so called cloud is crawled over by millions of spiders and web crawlers, looking for patterns to pitch you products in the form of popup ads, etc.
> 
> But that isn't on your computer, that's on the internet. You have ZERO expectation of privacy on the net.
> 
> Want a safe and secure backup? Use a replication software like Syncback to move files to a portable drive. Turn the drive off when not in use. You are about as safe as possible. Powered down drives don't fail.
> 
> I keep all my photos backed up on a drive that only gets turned on when I upload new ones. It's not going to fail, because it has maybe 10 hours of use on it.
Click to expand...


How is my making the point missing it?  

You say I have ZERO expectation of privacy on the net.  

Yeah, well I don't remember ever agreeing to that.  Meta data?  Yeah they could have a point, about meta data being similar to seeing you talk to a suspect from a remote distance on public lands.  But looking at meta data is not opening up all of my "papers" that I use to communicate privately with over networks and cross indexing my private comments to identify particular behavior of mine in my private speech and photos.


----------



## Ringel05

RKMBrown said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol you thinking your electronic data is private.. yeah that's delusional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It _is _private until their is a reason to investigate it.
> 
> If you think that your everyday cloud contents are being perused by Big Gummint, then yes, you are delusional.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, every thing is scanned. Nothing goes unturned.  Every single text message.  Every single email. Everything gets scanned. EVERYTHING
Click to expand...


Scanned but not necessarily human read.  They're looking for "trigger" words and phrases associated with terrorism and other criminal activity, the software finds the words and phrases and flags them for reading.  The vast majority are most likely looked at and dismissed as the search parameters can't determine content or context.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Dude, every thing is scanned. Nothing goes unturned.  Every single text message.  Every single email. Everything gets scanned. EVERYTHING



Again, these all go out over public airwaves or across the public internet. Once data goes past your home router, there is zero expectation of privacy. 

But no one is scanning your local drives. And if you're really concerned, use TrueCrypt - I guarantee no one will snoop it.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> How is my making the point missing it?
> 
> You say I have ZERO expectation of privacy on the net.
> 
> Yeah, well I don't remember ever agreeing to that.  Meta data?  Yeah they could have a point, about meta data being similar to seeing you talk to a suspect from a remote distance on public lands.  But looking at meta data is not opening up all of my "papers" that I use to communicate privately with over networks and cross indexing my private comments to identify particular behavior of mine in my private speech and photos.



Going on the internet is like going outside. In your home, you have a right to expect your conversations will be kept private. But once you go to the local mall, you simply can't expect that anymore. The internet is public by it's very nature. What you say and do will can be known by any who care to look.


----------



## Asclepias

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, every thing is scanned. Nothing goes unturned.  Every single text message.  Every single email. Everything gets scanned. EVERYTHING
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, these all go out over public airwaves or across the public internet. Once data goes past your home router, there is zero expectation of privacy.
> 
> But no one is scanning your local drives. And if you're really concerned, use TrueCrypt - I guarantee no one will snoop it.
Click to expand...



TrueCrypt is great to thwart some kiddie hacker or someone not really determined but you are mistaken if you think someone cannot scan your hard drive.  Even with TrueCrypt I'm pretty sure the government can crack it.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Asclepias said:


> TrueCrypt is great to thwart some kiddie hacker or someone not really determined but you are mistaken if you think someone cannot scan your hard drive.  Even with TrueCrypt I'm pretty sure the government can crack it.



AES 256 bit encryption is damned tough to crack. If the government wants your data bad enough to even attempt a crack, you'll be in handcuffs and the machine will be confiscated.

No one is going to hack in an crack it - it takes days to weeks to crack it, even with serious hardware.


----------



## Asclepias

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> TrueCrypt is great to thwart some kiddie hacker or someone not really determined but you are mistaken if you think someone cannot scan your hard drive.  Even with TrueCrypt I'm pretty sure the government can crack it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AES 256 bit encryption is damned tough to crack. If the government wants your data bad enough to even attempt a crack, you'll be in handcuffs and the machine will be confiscated.
> 
> No one is going to hack in an crack it - it takes days to weeks to crack it, even with serious hardware.
Click to expand...


For the common hacker probably. You evidently have no clue what the government has in the way of breaking encryption or their methods of obtaining data without alerting other parties.  Thats not even mentioning the backdoors given to them by the originators of said software.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Asclepias said:


> For the common hacker probably. You evidently have no clue what the government has in the way of breaking encryption or their methods of obtaining data without alerting other parties.  Thats not even mentioning the backdoors given to them by the originators of said software.



Again, I acknowledge that the fed can get through. But at the point that they will go to that extreme, they will already have you in custody.


----------



## Asclepias

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the common hacker probably. You evidently have no clue what the government has in the way of breaking encryption or their methods of obtaining data without alerting other parties.  Thats not even mentioning the backdoors given to them by the originators of said software.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I acknowledge that the fed can get through. But at the point that they will go to that extreme, they will already have you in custody.
Click to expand...


Not if they want to let you operate to lead them to bigger fish.


----------



## veeder

With enough computing power any encryption can be cracked.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Uncensored2008

veeder said:


> With enough computing power any encryption can be cracked.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



Yep.

If you seek to do it remotely, you also need a lot of bandwidth.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is my making the point missing it?
> 
> You say I have ZERO expectation of privacy on the net.
> 
> Yeah, well I don't remember ever agreeing to that.  Meta data?  Yeah they could have a point, about meta data being similar to seeing you talk to a suspect from a remote distance on public lands.  But looking at meta data is not opening up all of my "papers" that I use to communicate privately with over networks and cross indexing my private comments to identify particular behavior of mine in my private speech and photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going on the internet is like going outside. In your home, you have a right to expect your conversations will be kept private. But once you go to the local mall, you simply can't expect that anymore. The internet is public by it's very nature. What you say and do will can be known by any who care to look.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's not what's happening.  I'm in my house sending communications to friends over a private lines... and still they open my papers.  If I go for a drive the stuff in my car is private even though I drive on the road.  If I go for a walk the stuff in my wallet is private even though it's in my pocket.  If I have a private conversation in the park, I have an expectation that the US GOVERNMENT ISNT LISTENING to me with a microphone in the frigging bush.  It's against the law for them to attach a gps unit to my car without a warrant.  It's against the law for them to wire tap my phones without a warrant.  There is no difference between my conversations on a phone line and my conversations on the internet, in fact many phone conversations are converted to IP and transmitted over the very same networks that carry internet traffic.

Dude, they don't have the right to scan your shit without a warrant.  There is a huge difference between a federal officer casually hearing your conversation while standing next to you and a wire taping device being used to listen in to every single conversation in the country without a friggin warrant. 

There's a reason they only did this to foreign countries pre 911.  There's a reason they initially pretended they were just collecting meta-data.   

The reason is, it's a against the law to go through your papers without your permission if they don't have a friggin warrant or reasonable evidence that you are committing some crime.


----------



## RKMBrown

veeder said:


> With enough computing power any encryption can be cracked.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



And with a deep enough encryption it's easy to encrypt data to the point where no existing amount of computing power could possibly decrypt the data over your lifetime. Of course that would be against the law.  The government likes us to use encryption they can easily decrypt.


----------



## Zoom-boing

So pretty much buy whatever you're comfortable with, PC or Mac, take care of it but face the reality that many of these machines are built with planned obsolescence in mind and having to replace it in five years isn't an exception but more the rule?

I miss the days when things lasted longer.


----------



## RKMBrown

Zoom-boing said:


> So pretty much buy whatever you're comfortable with, PC or Mac, take care of it but face the reality that many of these machines are built with planned obsolescence in mind and having to replace it in five years isn't an exception but more the rule?
> 
> I miss the days when things lasted longer.



I keep my old macs or sell them, I toss my PCs after about 8years.  But then I keep my old truck too.  Classic cars get rebuilt to extend their life.  Most PCs are not classics.


----------



## laziale

i like PC


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> I keep my old macs or sell them, I toss my PCs after about 8years.  But then I keep my old truck too.  Classic cars get rebuilt to extend their life.  Most PCs are not classics.



Now that cell phones can do Facebook, why would anyone buy a Mac, new or use?


----------



## Uncensored2008

laziale said:


> i like PC



I like connecting to the corporate VPN, using RDP, running the ERP client, developing in .Net, opening CAD systems like SolidWorks, Catia, Pro-E and CAM systems like MasterCAM and MultiDNC.

Facebook has it's place, but I need machines that do actual work - which means Windows PC's.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep my old macs or sell them, I toss my PCs after about 8years.  But then I keep my old truck too.  Classic cars get rebuilt to extend their life.  Most PCs are not classics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that cell phones can do Facebook, why would anyone buy a Mac, new or use?
Click to expand...


The same reason people still buy full size cars when a sub-compact will suffice.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> laziale said:
> 
> 
> 
> i like PC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like connecting to the corporate VPN, using RDP, running the ERP client, developing in .Net, opening CAD systems like SolidWorks, Catia, Pro-E and CAM systems like MasterCAM and MultiDNC.
> 
> Facebook has it's place, but I need machines that do actual work - which means Windows PC's.
Click to expand...


Define Windows PC... then explain how that excludes Macs.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> The same reason people still buy full size cars when a sub-compact will suffice.



Don't you mean, why people buy a moped for more than the cost of a real car?

Quick, name one thing a Mac can do that a PC can't?

I'll wait.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Define Windows PC... then explain how that excludes Macs.



Hardware wise, a Mac running Windows is just an absurdly overpriced PC that uses substandard (Foxconn) components.

The modified FreeBSD that Mac uses as an operating system is what keeps the machine from being useful.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> The same reason people still buy full size cars when a sub-compact will suffice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you mean, why people buy a moped for more than the cost of a real car?
> 
> Quick, name one thing a Mac can do that a PC can't?
> 
> I'll wait.
Click to expand...


Apple Client devices, such as the iPhone, and iPad, integrate much better when attached to a Mac running a MacOS... to many examples to list.

Applications written to the MacOS do not run on Windows (same argument in reverse that you made for windows only apps.)

The Mac user interface is not the same as Windows. For example, note top title bar of currently active application while displaying the application as a windowed application.  Windows requires the application to be maximized to put the active menu bar at the top.

There are many differences.  Each manufacture has a number of patents for many of these differences, some of which prohibit the msft/apple from poaching the ideas.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define Windows PC... then explain how that excludes Macs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardware wise, a Mac running Windows is just an absurdly overpriced PC that uses substandard (Foxconn) components.
> 
> The modified FreeBSD that Mac uses as an operating system is what keeps the machine from being useful.
Click to expand...


ROFL... put down the koolaid before it's to late.  Don't like the parts the Apple guys used?  Do the same thing any other "normal" person does when they don't like their PC components and put something else in there.  Mac computers part are based on the same parts as any other IBMpc/Intel clone and as such are easily swappable.  Make up your mind... are you arguing against the physical ergonomics of the apple computers, the PC components selected by apple, or the MacOS itself?  Running windows on an apple pc is no different than running windows on a dell pc.  It's the same damn thing.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Apple Client devices, such as the iPhone, and iPad, integrate much better when attached to a Mac running a MacOS... to many examples to list.
> 
> Applications written to the MacOS do not run on Windows (same argument in reverse that you made for windows only apps.)
> 
> The Mac user interface is not the same as Windows. For example, note top title bar of currently active application while displaying the application as a windowed application.  Windows requires the application to be maximized to put the active menu bar at the top.
> 
> There are many differences.  Each manufacture has a number of patents for many of these differences, some of which prohibit the msft/apple from poaching the ideas.



You didn't answer the question.

People use iTunes all the time on the PC. Since it is a browser based application, there is virtually zero difference in experience. You've got to do better than this.

Applications written for Mac? 

You mean Photoshop, oops - runs FAR better under windows. Since Adobe hates Apple, I think they sabotage the Mac version, it actually shouldn't run as poorly as it does on equivalent hardware.

Fact, there IS no relevant software exclusive to Mac.

Personally, I find the Aero interface to be most functional for a keyboard and a mouse of the planet. But this is subjective. 

For a touchscreen - nothing even comes close to Metro, which is why Apple is cloning it as we speak.


----------



## Indeependent

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apple Client devices, such as the iPhone, and iPad, integrate much better when attached to a Mac running a MacOS... to many examples to list.
> 
> Applications written to the MacOS do not run on Windows (same argument in reverse that you made for windows only apps.)
> 
> The Mac user interface is not the same as Windows. For example, note top title bar of currently active application while displaying the application as a windowed application.  Windows requires the application to be maximized to put the active menu bar at the top.
> 
> There are many differences.  Each manufacture has a number of patents for many of these differences, some of which prohibit the msft/apple from poaching the ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't answer the question.
> 
> People use iTunes all the time on the PC. Since it is a browser based application, there is virtually zero difference in experience. You've got to do better than this.
> 
> Applications written for Mac?
> 
> You mean Photoshop, oops - runs FAR better under windows. Since Adobe hates Apple, I think they sabotage the Mac version, it actually shouldn't run as poorly as it does on equivalent hardware.
> 
> Fact, there IS no relevant software exclusive to Mac.
> 
> Personally, I find the Aero interface to be most functional for a keyboard and a mouse of the planet. But this is subjective.
> 
> For a touchscreen - nothing even comes close to Metro, which is why Apple is cloning it as we speak.
Click to expand...


Can't find any info on Apple cloning Metro.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apple Client devices, such as the iPhone, and iPad, integrate much better when attached to a Mac running a MacOS... to many examples to list.
> 
> Applications written to the MacOS do not run on Windows (same argument in reverse that you made for windows only apps.)
> 
> The Mac user interface is not the same as Windows. For example, note top title bar of currently active application while displaying the application as a windowed application.  Windows requires the application to be maximized to put the active menu bar at the top.
> 
> There are many differences.  Each manufacture has a number of patents for many of these differences, some of which prohibit the msft/apple from poaching the ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't answer the question.
> 
> People use iTunes all the time on the PC. Since it is a browser based application, there is virtually zero difference in experience. You've got to do better than this.
> 
> Applications written for Mac?
> 
> You mean Photoshop, oops - runs FAR better under windows. Since Adobe hates Apple, I think they sabotage the Mac version, it actually shouldn't run as poorly as it does on equivalent hardware.
> 
> Fact, there IS no relevant software exclusive to Mac.
> 
> Personally, I find the Aero interface to be most functional for a keyboard and a mouse of the planet. But this is subjective.
> 
> For a touchscreen - nothing even comes close to Metro, which is why Apple is cloning it as we speak.
Click to expand...


Yes I did answer the question.  You chose to ignore the answers.  

ROFL you think the best photo editing software is photoshop ROFL?  

Oh I see now it's windows os vs mac os, make up your damn mind.  Now, name one "relevant" type of software that is exclusive to Windows.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Indeependent said:


> Can't find any info on Apple cloning Metro.








Really?


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't find any info on Apple cloning Metro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
Click to expand...


huh?


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't find any info on Apple cloning Metro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> huh?
Click to expand...


You are very emotional, aren't you?

When Apple TV was revamped, they directly lifted the tile based interface of Metro. The next gen iOS is also tile based. 

Apple is cloning Metro because it is a superior interface for touch screens.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are very emotional, aren't you?
> 
> When Apple TV was revamped, they directly lifted the tile based interface of Metro. The next gen iOS is also tile based.
> 
> Apple is cloning Metro because it is a superior interface for touch screens.
Click to expand...


ROFL you think Microsoft Metro invented tiles? ROFL tears.. please stop your killing me.  






Look Ma, Mac had tiles in 1984! They must have gone back in time cause I heard it on usmb that they stole it from Msft.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> ROFL you think Microsoft invented tiles? ROFL tears.. please stop your killing me.



Right, Apple invented it...


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL you think Microsoft invented tiles? ROFL tears.. please stop your killing me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right, Apple invented it...
Click to expand...


Where did I claim Apple invented it?  Are you retarded?


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> ROFL you think Microsoft Metro invented tiles? ROFL tears.. please stop your killing me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look Ma, Mac had tiles in 1984! They must have gone back in time cause I heard it on usmb that they stole it from Msft.



Those aren't tiles. those are icons, retard.

Xerox invented them - Apple and Microsoft stole them.

You really are emotional about this.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL you think Microsoft Metro invented tiles? ROFL tears.. please stop your killing me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look Ma, Mac had tiles in 1984! They must have gone back in time cause I heard it on usmb that they stole it from Msft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those aren't tiles. those are icons, retard.
> 
> Xerox invented them - Apple and Microsoft stole them.
> 
> You really are emotional about this.
Click to expand...

OMFG what do you think the difference is between an icon and a tile nimrod?  As to your new accusation about theft by Apple AND Microsoft, I call bull shit on that to.  The courts did not rule in Xerox' favor on that.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> OMFG what do you think the difference is between an icon and a tile nimrod?  As to your new accusation about theft by Apple AND Microsoft, I call bull shit on that to.  The courts did not rule in Xerox' favor on that.



LOL

Are you a 13 year old girl with a crush on Steve Jobs?

Here, learn something.

Apple versus Microsoft: The top 20 stolen ideas of the OS wars | Windows - InfoWorld


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMFG what do you think the difference is between an icon and a tile nimrod?  As to your new accusation about theft by Apple AND Microsoft, I call bull shit on that to.  The courts did not rule in Xerox' favor on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Are you a 13 year old girl with a crush on Steve Jobs?
> 
> Here, learn something.
> 
> Apple versus Microsoft: The top 20 stolen ideas of the OS wars | Windows - InfoWorld
Click to expand...


Stop making up lies and I'll stop embarrassing you, ya lying ignoramus.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Stop making up lies and I'll stop embarrassing you, ya lying ignoramus.



ROFL

You ignorant turd.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop making up lies and I'll stop embarrassing you, ya lying ignoramus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> You ignorant turd.
Click to expand...


Yeah and what does that make the guy that thinks an icon isn't a tile?


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Yeah and what does that make the guy that thinks an icon isn't a tile?



Someone with knowledge of the subject.

What are Windows 8 Live Tiles? | Soluto Knowledgebase

It's okay, you don't know what these are because Apple hasn't invented them yet. Once they do, later this year, you'll be creaming about how they are the most brilliant invention in history.


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and what does that make the guy that thinks an icon isn't a tile?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone with knowledge of the subject.
> 
> What are Windows 8 Live Tiles? | Soluto Knowledgebase
> 
> It's okay, you don't know what these are because Apple hasn't invented them yet. Once they do, later this year, you'll be creaming about how they are the most brilliant invention in history.
Click to expand...


Now you want to talk about live updates to images aka windows aka. live tiles, aka applications?  You think updating a portion of a display is the most brilliant invention in history?  You really have no clue what a user interface is do ya?  FYI I wrote the one you are using dweeb.


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Now you want to talk about live updates to images aka windows aka. live tiles, aka applications?  You think updating a portion of a display is the most brilliant invention in history?  You really have no clue what a user interface is do ya?  FYI I wrote the one you are using dweeb.



Sure you did sploogy, sure you did....


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want to talk about live updates to images aka windows aka. live tiles, aka applications?  You think updating a portion of a display is the most brilliant invention in history?  You really have no clue what a user interface is do ya?  FYI I wrote the one you are using dweeb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you did sploogy, sure you did....
Click to expand...


Take a bet?


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Take a bet?



Bet that a message board user on the internet can claim to have "invented" the GUI? 

So, you claim to be Doug Englebart then? Still getting those royalty checks from Apple? Oh wait, you ignorantly claimed that Apple won that suit...


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take a bet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bet that a message board user on the internet can claim to have "invented" the GUI?
> 
> So, you claim to be Doug Englebart then? Still getting those royalty checks from Apple? Oh wait, you ignorantly claimed that Apple won that suit...
Click to expand...


Where did I say I invented the GUI dip shit? Is there a particular reason you keep making shit up?


----------



## Uncensored2008

RKMBrown said:


> Where did I say I invented the GUI dip shit? Is there a particular reason you keep making shit up?




Well, let's see...



> You really have no clue what a user interface is do ya? FYI I wrote the one you are using dweeb.



Oh, maybe you invented the electron?

ROFL

MSDN lists 217 developers who contributed to the Aero interface.

But you wrote it....


----------



## RKMBrown

Uncensored2008 said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say I invented the GUI dip shit? Is there a particular reason you keep making shit up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's see...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really have no clue what a user interface is do ya? FYI I wrote the one you are using dweeb.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, maybe you invented the electron?
> 
> ROFL
> 
> MSDN lists 217 developers who contributed to the Aero interface.
> 
> But you wrote it....
Click to expand...


Aero is nothing more than new windows/controls that sit on top of the presentation layer of the OS.  That's the part I wrote. More particularly, I did the first 32bit version of that layer in C++ back on NT.  Prior to my version it was written in 16bit ASM.  My code's probably been modified a few times since.


----------



## Bleipriester

I am not an Apple-Fanboy and don´t like the limitations which come along with an Apple-OS.


----------



## RKMBrown

Bleipriester said:


> I am not an Apple-Fanboy and don´t like the limitations which come along with an Apple-OS.



What limitations?


----------



## HenryBHough

I've used Macs for years but their new OS - "Mavericks" sucks.


----------



## RKMBrown

HenryBHough said:


> I've used Macs for years but their new OS - "Mavericks" sucks.



Windoze 8 sucks harder.


----------



## Bleipriester

Bleipriester said:


> I am not an Apple-Fanboy and don´t like the limitations which come along with an Apple-OS.


Whenever there is something you want, be sure, it does not support Mac OS.


----------



## Clement

I am no fan of either Apple or Microsoft. I have had two Mac desktops, and I now own an Iphone and an Ipod. I'll never own another one, I am tired of their usage limitations. It's the same with Microsoft. 

If I was buying a new computer I would build something from a barebones kit and install one of the Linux operating systems on it, Ubuntu probably. I would install Ubuntu on my Android tablet if I knew how. I am over laptops.


----------



## Iceweasel

Clement said:


> I would install Ubuntu on my Android tablet if I knew how. I am over laptops.


Downloads : LinuxonAndroid


----------

