# The Bloodthirsty Bard.



## Mindful




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## Mindful

I couldn't find a literature/the arts page to post this. 

But it hi-lights learning this bloodthirstyness at a relatively young  age at school.


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## yiostheoy

Well Anthony was in a power struggle with Augustus and Cleopatra ended up sleeping around like any good queen.

Elizabeth 1st slept around too.  Sir Francis Drake and Sir Walter Raleigh were two of her favorites.

Drake was older than she, while Raleigh was younger.


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## yiostheoy

Romeo and Juliet is just a pretty Greek tragedy adapted to Elizabethan England.

In Greek tragedy, love does not conquer all.

For example, at the Trojan War, Achilles killed the Queen of the Amazons, and as she lie dying in his arms, they fell in love with each other.


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## yiostheoy

The lessons of MacBeth and Hamlet are the same as Dostoevsky's "Crime And Punishment".


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## yiostheoy

I never got around to reading Othello.  I recall that he was black though.

In my Catholic high school this was censured.


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## yiostheoy

there4eyeM is a fairly smart philosopher so I wonder what he/she thinks.


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## there4eyeM

yiostheoy said:


> there4eyeM is a fairly smart philosopher so I wonder what he/she thinks.


I? Think? there4eyeM?

American education frowns upon such activity.


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## yiostheoy

there4eyeM said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> there4eyeM is a fairly smart philosopher so I wonder what he/she thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> I? Think? there4eyeM?
> 
> American education frowns upon such activity.
Click to expand...

I got a really good Catholic private school education complete with Catholic guilt and original sin as well.

His Eminence has agreed finally after 400 years that the Earth actually is NOT the center of the Universe.  They have their own celestial observatory at the Vatican now.

And evolutionary theory is allowed and teaches that at some point God gave hominids a soul.

The most famous Catholic philosopher is San Tomas Aquinas.  He is required reading.  I actually happen to agree with Aquinas however so no worries there.


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## Mindful

there4eyeM said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> there4eyeM is a fairly smart philosopher so I wonder what he/she thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> I? Think? there4eyeM?
> 
> American education frowns upon such activity.
Click to expand...


I was quite impressed with American education, after some visits to schools there.


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## there4eyeM

Mindful said:


> there4eyeM said:
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> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> there4eyeM is a fairly smart philosopher so I wonder what he/she thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> I? Think? there4eyeM?
> 
> American education frowns upon such activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was quite impressed with American education, after some visits to schools there.
Click to expand...


The conformity engendered is impressive, especially given what would otherwise appear to be nearly endless choice.


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## Compost

I remember being delighted by Shakespeare with all those successful stabbings and whatnot, after watching  Wile E Coyote drop so many boulders for naught.


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## yiostheoy

I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.

They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.

The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.

But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.

I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.


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## yiostheoy

Mindful said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> there4eyeM is a fairly smart philosopher so I wonder what he/she thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> I? Think? there4eyeM?
> 
> American education frowns upon such activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was quite impressed with American education, after some visits to schools there.
Click to expand...

German education impressed me the most.

They test their kids and then send them off either to trade school (like my cousin over there), or intermediate liberal arts (where I attended for a year as an exchange student in 9th Grade), or high level classics including Greek (my uncle went there).

- Berufschule

- Oberealschule

- Gymnasium.


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## Compost

yiostheoy said:


> I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.
> 
> They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.
> 
> The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.
> 
> But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.
> 
> I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.


It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.


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## yiostheoy

Compost said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.
> 
> They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.
> 
> The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.
> 
> But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.
> 
> I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.
Click to expand...

Romeo and Juliet is the most dangerous of all the Shakespearian classics to high school'ers because a lot of them commit suicide especially the girls now.

So I would ban that one -- no talk of suicide in high school.


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## Mindful

yiostheoy said:


> Compost said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.
> 
> They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.
> 
> The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.
> 
> But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.
> 
> I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Romeo and Juliet is the most dangerous of all the Shakespearian classics to high school'ers because a lot of them commit suicide especially the girls now.
> 
> So I would ban that one -- no talk of suicide in high school.
Click to expand...


That's a valid point.


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## Compost

I'm not sure avoiding a topic like suicide is the way to go.  Kids don't just up and kill themselves because they read Romeo and Juliet.  These things  ought to be discussed.  If they aren't being talked   about at home, school discussion take on even more importance.


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## Mindful

Compost said:


> I'm not sure avoiding a topic like suicide is the way to go.  Kids don't just up and kill themselves because they read Romeo and Juliet.  These things  ought to be discussed.  If they aren't being talked   about at home, school discussion take on even more importance.



A Midsummer's Dream (there's an allegory in that one) and The Tempest  were my favourites. But we had Macbeth dumped on us. How were we to analyse the dark deep vagaries of Lady Macbeth's scheming character, when we'd hardly lived ourselves?


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## JoeB131

Mindful said:


>



_Titus Andronicus_ is still the winner for most bloody play. Rape, cannibalism, murder.... Family values!!!


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## there4eyeM

Mindful said:


> yiostheoy said:
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> Compost said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.
> 
> They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.
> 
> The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.
> 
> But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.
> 
> I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Romeo and Juliet is the most dangerous of all the Shakespearian classics to high school'ers because a lot of them commit suicide especially the girls now.
> 
> So I would ban that one -- no talk of suicide in high school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a valid point.
Click to expand...


This could be interpreted to mean one encourages ignorance over understanding.


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## Compost

Mindful said:


> Compost said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure avoiding a topic like suicide is the way to go.  Kids don't just up and kill themselves because they read Romeo and Juliet.  These things  ought to be discussed.  If they aren't being talked   about at home, school discussion take on even more importance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Midsummer's Dream (there's an allegory in that one) and The Tempest  were my favourites. But we had Macbeth dumped on us. How were we to analyse the dark deep vagaries of Lady Macbeth's scheming character, when we'd hardly lived ourselves?
Click to expand...

I see your point, but I think too many young people wind up  very very  surprised when they face the grown up world.  I figure they ought to read both comedy and tragedy..


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## yiostheoy

In my high school 2 kids suicide'ed.

The girl was despondent because her boyfriend dumped her for a cheerleader.

And the boy had a psychotic reaction from the dope.

Another boy was killed on his motorcycle in traffic.  His parents should have given him a car instead.


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## there4eyeM

Compost said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compost said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure avoiding a topic like suicide is the way to go.  Kids don't just up and kill themselves because they read Romeo and Juliet.  These things  ought to be discussed.  If they aren't being talked   about at home, school discussion take on even more importance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Midsummer's Dream (there's an allegory in that one) and The Tempest  were my favourites. But we had Macbeth dumped on us. How were we to analyse the dark deep vagaries of Lady Macbeth's scheming character, when we'd hardly lived ourselves?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see your point, but I think too many young people wind up  very very  surprised when they face the grown up world.  I figure they ought to read both comedy and tragedy..
Click to expand...


The Bible?


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## yiostheoy

there4eyeM said:


> Mindful said:
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> yiostheoy said:
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> Compost said:
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> yiostheoy said:
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> 
> I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.
> 
> They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.
> 
> The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.
> 
> But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.
> 
> I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Romeo and Juliet is the most dangerous of all the Shakespearian classics to high school'ers because a lot of them commit suicide especially the girls now.
> 
> So I would ban that one -- no talk of suicide in high school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a valid point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This could be interpreted to mean one encourages ignorance over understanding.
Click to expand...

Children must be protected and guided not inundated with stress and tragedy.

Shakespeare was not writing for American high school'ers.

He was writing to impress the Queen and her court.


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## yiostheoy

there4eyeM said:


> Compost said:
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> Mindful said:
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> 
> 
> Compost said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure avoiding a topic like suicide is the way to go.  Kids don't just up and kill themselves because they read Romeo and Juliet.  These things  ought to be discussed.  If they aren't being talked   about at home, school discussion take on even more importance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Midsummer's Dream (there's an allegory in that one) and The Tempest  were my favourites. But we had Macbeth dumped on us. How were we to analyse the dark deep vagaries of Lady Macbeth's scheming character, when we'd hardly lived ourselves?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see your point, but I think too many young people wind up  very very  surprised when they face the grown up world.  I figure they ought to read both comedy and tragedy..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Bible?
Click to expand...

Also X rated.

I do not support brainwashing kids either as Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Muslims, or Jews.

Buddhism is fairly safe however.


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## Mindful

there4eyeM said:


> Mindful said:
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> yiostheoy said:
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> Compost said:
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> yiostheoy said:
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> I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.
> 
> They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.
> 
> The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.
> 
> But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.
> 
> I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Romeo and Juliet is the most dangerous of all the Shakespearian classics to high school'ers because a lot of them commit suicide especially the girls now.
> 
> So I would ban that one -- no talk of suicide in high school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a valid point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This could be interpreted to mean one encourages ignorance over understanding.
Click to expand...


You can interpret it any way you like.


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## Mindful

Compost said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compost said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure avoiding a topic like suicide is the way to go.  Kids don't just up and kill themselves because they read Romeo and Juliet.  These things  ought to be discussed.  If they aren't being talked   about at home, school discussion take on even more importance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Midsummer's Dream (there's an allegory in that one) and The Tempest  were my favourites. But we had Macbeth dumped on us. How were we to analyse the dark deep vagaries of Lady Macbeth's scheming character, when we'd hardly lived ourselves?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see your point, but I think too many young people wind up  very very  surprised when they face the grown up world.  I figure they ought to read both comedy and tragedy..
Click to expand...


That's where parenting and teaching comes in, to bridge that gap. 

I think on the whole, we've failed miserably.


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## Mindful

Compost said:


> Alas, the Bible is banned in many schools these days.



In the US?


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## Compost

ly





Mindful said:


> Compost said:
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> Alas, the Bible is banned in many schools these days.
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> In the US?
Click to expand...

Yes.  Though in many districts it is not officially banned.


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## Mindful

Compost said:


> Mindful said:
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> Compost said:
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> Alas, the Bible is banned in many schools these days.
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> In the US?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.
Click to expand...


Well, you do have separation of church and state.


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## yiostheoy

Mindful said:


> Compost said:
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> Alas, the Bible is banned in many schools these days.
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> In the US?
Click to expand...

Politics and religion are taboo in public taxpayer funded schooling.


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## yiostheoy

Mindful said:


> Compost said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Compost said:
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> Alas, the Bible is banned in many schools these days.
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> In the US?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you do have separation of church and state.
Click to expand...

Supposedly.  However the far right will disagree with this.


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## there4eyeM

[/QUOTE]
Children must be protected and guided not inundated with stress and tragedy.

Shakespeare was not writing for American high school'ers.

[/QUOTE]

They would have to learn English first, then they would have to learn Elizabethan English. 'Highschoolers' don't understand Shakespeare (not that a whole lot of other do, either).


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## there4eyeM

Mindful said:


> there4eyeM said:
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> Mindful said:
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> yiostheoy said:
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> Compost said:
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> yiostheoy said:
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> I now feel that murder is too violent an issue for high school'ers.
> 
> They should hold off on Shakespeare until college.
> 
> The Hobbit is better suited for high school'ers.
> 
> But not the Tolkien Trilogy though.
> 
> I guess this is what Mindful is also getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Romeo and Juliet is the most dangerous of all the Shakespearian classics to high school'ers because a lot of them commit suicide especially the girls now.
> 
> So I would ban that one -- no talk of suicide in high school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a valid point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This could be interpreted to mean one encourages ignorance over understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can interpret it any way you like.
Click to expand...

Such a gracious gift of liberty!


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## Mindful

there4eyeM said:


> Mindful said:
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> there4eyeM said:
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> Mindful said:
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> yiostheoy said:
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> Compost said:
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> It seems to me, murder is a necessary part of good vs evil stories.
> 
> 
> 
> Romeo and Juliet is the most dangerous of all the Shakespearian classics to high school'ers because a lot of them commit suicide especially the girls now.
> 
> So I would ban that one -- no talk of suicide in high school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a valid point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This could be interpreted to mean one encourages ignorance over understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can interpret it any way you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a gracious gift of liberty!
Click to expand...


It's a function of the cerebellum. How our brains are wired.


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