# Joe the Plumber - The Truth and nothing but it



## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

ABC News: America's Overnight Sensation Joe the Plumber Owes $1,200 in Taxes



> He will need the money. Wurzelbacher's new notoriety has brought to light the fact that he owes nearly $1,200 in unpaid taxes.
> 
> A second lien has been filed in the courhouse against Wurzelbacher for $1,261 that he apparently owes St. Charles Mercy Hospital. That lien was filed in March 2007





> Wurzelbacher told Obama he was trying to buy a plumbing business that would put him in that tax bracket and wondered how much he would be taxed if he acquired it.
> 
> Wurzelbacher conceded today that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate. He acknowledged that he wants to buy a plumbing company for $250,000 to $280,000. That wouldn't be how much profit he would make from the firm.
> 
> ...





> "You were going to put him in a higher tax bracket, which was going to increase his taxes, which was going to cause him not to be able to employ people, which Joe was trying to realize the American dream," McCain said to Obama.
> 
> Wurzelbacher has become the focal point of the presidential election because of his objections to Obama's plan to boost taxes on people who earn more than $250,000. Ironically, the plumber currently has an income level that would make him eligible for Obama's proposed tax cut rather than the tax increase.



Another example where McCain didn't do his research and it comes back to bite him in the ass.

So Republicans have now lost one of their few talking points, Joe the Plumber. Time to go back to talking about Ayers in trying to scare the American people Republicans.


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## cindylee (Oct 16, 2008)

Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

Well, that about wraps it up for Joe. 

Thanks for the update.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> ABC News: America's Overnight Sensation Joe the Plumber Owes $1,200 in Taxes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh garbage. Joe isn't that stupid. He hit Obama with a theoretical question and everyone is flipping out. So Joe somes taxes---do you realize how many people owe taxes. Fuck taxes. And he has medical bills ?  OMG shocking!
Joe the Plumber asks a singel question and sends the American presidential election spinning. One guy. Think about it .


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..



Extremist Alert!

We know plenty about Obama, and it is called interviews with the man/public records.

You know about those right? If I see BS, I'll call it BS and prove why.

Now move along cindy, I'm sure you got some Obama/Wright tapes to make.


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..



I don't think we know his whole life - just that he doesn't have a license and owes back taxes. 

We know a lot more about Obama, his upbringing, his amily, his church, his ex church, his legislation, his bad habits - hell we even know that his daughters are getting a puppy next spring. And lots of other stuff.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Oh garbage. Joe isn't that stupid. He hit Obama with a theoretical question and everyone is flipping out. So Joe somes taxes---do you realize how many people owe taxes. Fuck taxes. And he has medical bills ?  OMG shocking!
> Joe the Plumber asks a singel question and sends the American presidential election spinning. One guy. Think about it .



That's not even the main point of this thread.

Glad you ignore the fact that Joe the Plumber actually gets a tax cut/break under Obama and not raised taxes.

Epic fail on your attempt at spin.


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Joe the Plumber asks a singel question and sends the American presidential election spinning. One guy. Think about it .




Only because mccain made something of it.


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## Red Dawn (Oct 16, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..




Lodge your complaint with the McCain campaign.  Grandpa mentioned Joe like 20 times last night, that was bound to get the media interested. 

As for Joe, he's evidently a liar.  He was more concerned with parroting a republican talking point he heard on the Limbaugh show, than he was with actually getting an accurate answer.  If his main issue is "taxes - like he claimed - the answer is he won't pay more taxes under obama, and since he only makes 40 grand a year, his tax burden will actually be less under obama. 

But I'll wager he's still voting for McCain.  Because he wasn't really wasn't interested in Obama's answer.  He is emotionally invested in the GOP and will vote for them no matter what.  He just wanted to parrot a talking point he heard on Fox News.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> Only because mccain made something of it.



Exactly


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Lodge your complaint with the McCain campaign.  Grandpa mentioned Joe like 20 times last night, that was bound to get the media interested.
> 
> As for Joe, he's evidently a liar.  He was more concerned with parroting a republican talking point he heard on the Limbaugh show, than he was with actually getting an accurate answer.  If his main issue is "taxes - like he claimed - the answer is he won't pay more taxes under obama, and since he only makes 40 grand a year, his tax burden will actually be less under obama.
> 
> But I'll wager he's still voting for McCain.  Because he wasn't really wasn't interested in Obama's answer.  He is emotionally invested in the GOP and will vote for them no matter what.  He just wanted to parrot a talking point he heard on Fox News.



The truth, quite the tricky thing it is.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> That's not even the main point of this thread.
> 
> Glad you ignore the fact that Joe the Plumber actually gets a tax cut/break under Obama and not raised taxes.
> 
> Epic fail on your attempt at spin.



Epic bullshit---Joe tricks Obama into spilling the beans about his Marxism.
The media EXPLODES  and makes every effort to kill the messenger. Why would that do that to poor old JOE ?


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## Gunny (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Extremist Alert!
> 
> We know plenty about Obama, and it is called interviews with the man/public records.
> 
> ...



How about a "Dude You're Late" alert?  This story already exists in another thread.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

It turns out hes a different Wurzelbacher than the one who went to prison for 20 months in the savings and Loan scandal of the eighties.

That one was Keatings son in law.

So in all this McCain ended up reminding people about the Keating 5 scandal.

man McCrusty just can do anything right.


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## NOBama (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> ABC News: America's Overnight Sensation Joe the Plumber Owes $1,200 in Taxes




You forgot to include the most important part of the article in your quotes.



> Losie said Wurzelbacher owes $1,182 from January 2007, but no action has been taken against him outside of filing the lien.
> 
> "There is no judge pulled, there is no attorney assigned... There is a 99 percent chance he doesn't know about the lien, unless he did a credit report or was ready to pay his taxes," Losie said.



At some point in your life you may find that there's a tax lein against you  that you didn't know about. I know because it happened to me. When you find out about it, what you do is: You go to the tax collectors office, pay the tax due and follow-up to make sure the lein has been removed.

You'll learn these things when you grow up.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Epic bullshit---Joe tricks Obama into spilling the beans about his Marxism.
> The media EXPLODES  and makes every effort to kill the messenger. Why would that do that to poor old JOE ?






If you really believe that, then you truly are lost. Stop trying to make Joe seem out to be some innocent victim who the media is hounding. If you can't read (which I don't think you can) he CONCEDED that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate.

Sorry the truth must be a hard concept for you to handle.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

NObama said:


> You forgot to include the most important part of the article in your quotes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Robby has learned how to slam citizens who ask a question that the elite don't like. We are going to know every dark secret Joe has and some he goesn't even know about yet.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Gunny said:


> How about a "Dude You're Late" alert?  This story already exists in another thread.



Care to point me as to where? I looked on this board before posting this.

Though is that the only response you have to such a thread like this Gunny?


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> ABC News: *America's Overnight Sensation Joe the Plumber Owes $1,200 in Taxes[*/url]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Even more reason, why that Joe doesn't want an Obama presidency, why add more to his debt?


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## DiveCon (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Care to point me as to where? I looked on this board before posting this.
> 
> Though is that the only response you have to such a thread like this Gunny?


your kidding right?
LOL
there are several "joe the plummer" threads already


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## Gunny (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> View attachment 6104
> 
> If you really believe that, then you truly are lost. Stop trying to make Joe seem out to be some innocent victim who the media is hounding. If you can't read (which I don't think you can) he CONCEDED that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate.
> 
> Sorry the truth must be a hard concept for you to handle.



Okay, he's an innocent victim of government theft -- oh I'm sorry, that's called taxes to you lefties, right? -- and since he can't ante up the ransom money they're going to take his house.

N-i-c-e.

Talk about truly lost .....


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## DavidS (Oct 16, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..



Interesting how you completely contradict yourself in the same sentence. "Obama has been running for president for 2 years" and "We know nothing about him."

Start watching the 6:30 news and the 24/hour cable stations.

Additionally, you may research him on the internet.

You could start with Wikipedia.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Robby has learned how to slam citizens who ask a question that the elite don't like. We are going to know every dark secret Joe has and some he goesn't even know about yet.



Right, questioning what other people say is wrong. How dare I ask what someone else says when it simply isn't true. I should just sit there and allow bullshit to be kept being told.

Here's what I love about Republicans:

We don't know everything about Obama! He could be a terrorist! A arab! A marxist! (This is after 20 months)

Joe the Plumber will have every dark secret about him cast into the light! (This is after a week)

Is it just me or does this logic not work?


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> your kidding right?
> LOL
> there are several "joe the plummer" threads already



I was talking about the news article I posted.


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Interesting how you completely contradict yourself in the same sentence. "Obama has been running for president for 2 years" and "We know nothing about him."
> 
> Start watching the 6:30 news and the 24/hour cable stations.
> 
> ...



Here I am always willing to help you out Dave....
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ro-El7WaYQ]YouTube - Obama Gaffe Machine 1[/ame]


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Okay, he's an innocent victim of government theft -- oh I'm sorry, that's called taxes to you lefties, right? -- and since he can't ante up the ransom money they're going to take his house.
> 
> N-i-c-e.
> 
> Talk about truly lost .....



You do realize that the whole taxes thing was just a side point?

You can avoid the issue that he isn't being taxed more under Obama and actually gets a tax break all you like.

I wonder if McCain will continue to bring up Joe the Plumber anymore now.

But nice avoiding the actual issue that has been made.


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## Larkinn (Oct 16, 2008)

Gunny said:


> Okay, he's an innocent victim of government theft -- oh I'm sorry, that's called taxes to you lefties, right? -- and since he can't ante up the ransom money they're going to take his house.
> 
> N-i-c-e.
> 
> Talk about truly lost .....



Government theft?   Didn't you work for the government and get paid from that "theft"?


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## Red Dawn (Oct 16, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> your kidding right?
> LOL
> there are several "joe the plummer" threads already




How many Ayers threads have there been?

Have you been scolding anyone for putting up multiple Ayers threads?


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> We don't know everything about Obama! He could be a terrorist! A arab! A marxist! (This is after 20 months)
> 
> Joe the Plumber will have every dark secret about him cast into the light! (This is after a week)
> 
> Is it just me or does this logic not work?




It doesn't work. But, it doesn't matter, because what it really says is that a chunk of the population finds Obama scary and feels sympathetic to Joe. 

Period.

I sympathize, I thought Bush was scary as all hell, so I know what the McCain supporters are going through. They REALLY think Obama is a terrorist, just like I really thought Bush was going to bring in nuclear war with Iran. I was wrong. They are wrong. McCain even said they are wrong.

Obama is not a commie marxist either. Unless CLinton was a commie marxist, because that is about the level of money management stuff Obama is talking about.


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> You do realize that the whole taxes thing was just a side point?
> 
> You can avoid the issue that he isn't being taxed more under Obama and actually gets a tax break all you like.
> 
> ...



Actually he would be taxed more under Obama's tax proposal would you like an independent analysis?


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> How many Ayers threads have there been?
> 
> Have you been scolding anyone for putting up multiple Ayers threads?



Course not, that would be called fair and balanced.

DiveCon can't have that, it might actually make some sense.


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Course not, that would be called fair and balanced.
> 
> DiveCon can't have that, it might actually make some sense.



Yes "spreading the wealth" makes perfect sense....


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> It doesn't work. But, it doesn't matter, because what it really says is that a chunk of the population finds Obama scary and feels sympathetic to Joe.
> 
> Period.
> 
> ...



Well Bush still has til January to start nuclear war with Iran. 

(Sorry, couldn't help but bring that up haha)


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## NOBama (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Robby has learned how to slam citizens who ask a question that the elite don't like. We are going to know every dark secret Joe has and some he goesn't even know about yet.



Yeah, wait till the liberal leftist media finds his ex-wife. For Joe's sake, I hope she's not meaner than a Bear with a sore ass!


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Yes "spreading the wealth" makes perfect sense....



Course you don't even look what I was responding to. You just want to throw in your little Republican talking point.


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## Larkinn (Oct 16, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Yes "spreading the wealth" makes perfect sense....



Right.   I mean it would be much better if only a few had all the wealth.   That sounds like a great society to me.


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## DiveCon (Oct 16, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> How many Ayers threads have there been?
> 
> Have you been scolding anyone for putting up multiple Ayers threads?


i dont read every thread
and most of the ayers threads get trampled on before any real discussion happens
like almost any thread you post in


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## DiveCon (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Course not, that would be called fair and balanced.
> 
> DiveCon can't have that, it might actually make some sense.


pot, meet kettle


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Actually he would be taxed more under Obama's tax proposal would you like an independent analysis?



Sure, lets see you try and spin the numbers into your bullshit view.

Please, show me your "independent analysis."

Which I'm sure is about as an "independent" and not catering to one side as much as you.


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> Right.   I mean it would be much better if only a few had all the wealth.   That sounds like a great society to me.



Or if 40% of the population that pays no taxes get huge gushes of money falling from heaven....

Except it won't fall from heaven, it will come from someone's hard earned wages....


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## DiveCon (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Sure, lets see you try and spin the numbers into your bullshit view.
> 
> Please, show me your "independent analysis."
> 
> Which I'm sure is about as an "independent" and not catering to one side as much as you.


and you lied in your thread title
you are not remotely interested in the truth


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

FactCheck.org: FactChecking Debate No. 3

Factcheck.org (which McCain liked to use in a campaign ad) has proven what I stated here.

Unless you think it's a giant liberal conspiracy against Joe the Plumber.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> i dont read every thread
> and most of the ayers threads get trampled on before any real discussion happens
> like almost any thread you post in



Class A Bullshit, you can still post in such threads and say it's wrong that this discussion is happening for the billionth time because it's been beaten to death like a dead horse.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> Right.   I mean it would be much better if only a few had all the wealth.   That sounds like a great society to me.



Right--I wanna see you squeal when you get a gander at you money flowing to the "less fortunate" and you have to start downsizing.


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## Gunny (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> You do realize that the whole taxes thing was just a side point?
> 
> You can avoid the issue that he isn't being taxed more under Obama and actually gets a tax break all you like.
> 
> ...



I'm avoiding nothing, junior.  Obama stated out of his mouth onto my tv and into my ears while drumming up votes that he is all for redistribution of wealth.  I will NOT vote for THAT, I don't care what lipstick he put on that pig to get your young ass to buy it.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> pot, meet kettle



Refer to my post above. I admit I'm a Liberal but I'm not a blind one. I know Obama has plenty of flaws and not every plan of his will work.

However, compared to McCain/Palin he is the obvious better choice.

You however are so far to the right that I'm sure anyday now Fox News will want to give you your own TV show.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> and you lied in your thread title
> you are not remotely interested in the truth



Well do tell me how anything I posted in the original post is false?

I'm interested in the truth, your interested in painting Obama in a bad light.


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## Gunny (Oct 16, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> Government theft?   Didn't you work for the government and get paid from that "theft"?



You have a point, Mr Dishonest?  Or are you just getting worked up to another one of your assinine, bullshit arguments?


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Well do tell me how anything I posted in the original post is false?
> 
> I'm interested in the truth, your interested in painting Obama in a bad light.



WHAT ????  Someone is actually trying to make a politician look BAD ??


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Gunny said:


> I'm avoiding nothing, junior.  Obama stated out of his mouth onto my tv and into my ears while drumming up votes that he is all for redistribution of wealth.  I will NOT vote for THAT, I don't care what lipstick he put on that pig to get your young ass to buy it.



You invoked my age twice, is bringing up my age suppose to belittle my points or me? Just wondering there.

It's your right to disagree with Obama if you choose, however the facts about Joe the Plumber stand as truth until proven otherwise.


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Sure, lets see you try and spin the numbers into your bullshit view.
> 
> Please, show me your "independent analysis."
> 
> Which I'm sure is about as an "independent" and not catering to one side as much as you.


Bloomberg.com: Politics
Under Obama's proposal, *Wurzelbacher would face about $900 more in taxes if he netted $280,000 of income from his new business, said Gerald Prante*, a senior economist at the Tax Foundation, a Washington research group that is examining both candidates' plans. ``His average tax burden, the final bill he pays to the IRS isn't going to go up much if he's just making $280,000 a year,'' Prante said. He would face higher marginal tax costs to expand the business beyond that, he said. 

The Tax Foundation - About the Tax Foundation

What Do We Stand For?
As a *nonpartisan* educational organization, the Tax Foundation has earned a reputation for independence and credibility. However, it is not devoid of perspective. All Tax Foundation research is guided by the following principles of sound tax policy, which should serve as touchstones for good tax policy everywhere:


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Bloomberg.com: Politics
> Under Obama's proposal, *Wurzelbacher would face about $900 more in taxes if he netted $280,000 of income from his new business, said Gerald Prante*, a senior economist at the Tax Foundation, a Washington research group that is examining both candidates' plans. ``His average tax burden, the final bill he pays to the IRS isn't going to go up much if he's just making $280,000 a year,'' Prante said. He would face higher marginal tax costs to expand the business beyond that, he said.
> 
> The Tax Foundation - About the Tax Foundation
> ...



IF he netted $280,000 in income from his business. However, your not even reading my link. He's going to make considerably less then that.

$280,000 isn't actually "ordinary" and "middle class" either by the way.


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## Larkinn (Oct 16, 2008)

Gunny said:


> You have a point, Mr Dishonest?  Or are you just getting worked up to another one of your assinine, bullshit arguments?



My point, you self centered, idiotic, dumbshit is that YOU of all people should not be calling taxes "theft", considering that "theft" pays your salary.   If you weren't able to get that was my point, I'm surprised you were able to get into the military even with their substandard requirements.


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## Larkinn (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Right--I wanna see you squeal when you get a gander at you money flowing to the "less fortunate" and you have to start downsizing.



Or maybe I'll expand, since the "less fortunate" can now afford products other than basic essentials.


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## DiveCon (Oct 16, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> Or maybe I'll expand, since the "less fortunate" can now afford products other than basic essentials.


actually, those "less fortunate" will likely buy big screen tv's with that
LOL
you will go out of business as those with more money pay you to do work at a loss


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> IF he netted $280,000 in income from his business. However, your not even reading my link. He's going to make considerably less then that.
> 
> $280,000 isn't actually "ordinary" and "middle class" either by the way.



If his company did in fact earn 280k, he would pay more taxes, a small businesses' profit helps employ the people he claims to want to help.


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## Larkinn (Oct 16, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> actually, those "less fortunate" will likely buy big screen tv's with that
> LOL
> you will go out of business as those with more money pay you to do work at a loss



I'm not quite sure where you live, but where I live we actually have products other than large screen TV's that people buy when they can afford them.


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## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

jreeves said:


> If his company did in fact earn 280k, he would pay more taxes, a small businesses' profit helps employ the people he claims to want to help.



If your earning $280k you are considerably not middle class. Also, I'd be interested in the setup of this "small business."

However, once again this is a bunch of ifs on your part. As of right now, he's not buying the plumbing company and he's not making 280k off it. So therefore as of right now, he gets a tax break under Obama plan and still would if he bought the plumbing business.


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## DiveCon (Oct 16, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> I'm not quite sure where you live, but where I live we actually have products other than large screen TV's that people buy when they can afford them.


oh man
it was a joke and you clearly didnt get it


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> *If your earning $280k you are considerably not middle class. *Also, I'd be interested in the setup of this "small business."
> 
> However, once again this is a bunch of ifs on your part. As of right now, he's not buying the plumbing company and he's not making 280k off it. So therefore as of right now, he gets a tax break under Obama plan and still would if he bought the plumbing business.




Many small businesses submit individual tax returns, under Obama's tax plan they would pay more in taxes. These are not a bunch of ifs on my part its reality, small businesses regularly submit individual tax returns.


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## Red Dawn (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> IF he netted $280,000 in income from his business. However, your not even reading my link. He's going to make considerably less then that.
> 
> $280,000 isn't actually "ordinary" and "middle class" either by the way.




Obama's tax plan only raises taxes on those who make 250k in _taxable_ income, NOT total income. That means if you make under 250k AFTER deductions, you get a tax cut.  And if you had your own business, you could easily be making 400k BEFORE deductions. 

Making 400k a year as a small business plummer is pretty freaking unlikely.  And anyone making 400k a year has no business whining when the rest of us working schmucks are getting hammered by the bush economy.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Obama's tax plan only raises taxes on those who make 250k in _taxable_ income, NOT total income. That means if you make under 250k AFTER deductions, you get a tax cut.  And if you had your own business, you could easily be making 400k BEFORE deductions.
> 
> Making 400k a year as a small business plummer is pretty freaking unlikely.  And anyone making 400k a year has no business whining when the rest of us working schmucks are getting hammered by the bush economy.



As long as you remain so partisan that you can't even correctly identify the problem we don't stand a chance. 

The difference in the two tax plans doesn't make a rats ass difference when everything that can happen to you is taken into consideration. Our economic leaders, bankers and corporations are going to call the shots and our opinion isn't going to be considered.


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## Larkinn (Oct 16, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> oh man
> it was a joke and you clearly didnt get it



Sadly the difference between you saying something absurd as a "joke" and you saying something absurd as something you actually believe aren't very different at all.   So no, I didn't get it.


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## jreeves (Oct 16, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Obama's tax plan only raises taxes on those who make 250k in _taxable_ income, NOT total income. That means if you make under 250k AFTER deductions, you get a tax cut.  And if you had your own business, you could easily be making 400k BEFORE deductions.
> 
> Making 400k a year as a small business plummer is pretty freaking unlikely.  And anyone making 400k a year has no business whining when the rest of us working schmucks are getting hammered by the bush economy.



You completely miss the point, I'm not suprised by the way. Many small business owners submit individual tax returns, the businesses' profit is claimed as income on their individual tax return.


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## DiveCon (Oct 16, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> Sadly the difference between you saying something absurd as a "joke" and you saying something absurd as something you actually believe aren't very different at all.   So no, I didn't get it.


gee, i would have thought the "LOL" and "" would have been a clear indication


----------



## editec (Oct 17, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Oh garbage. Joe isn't that stupid. He hit Obama with a theoretical question and everyone is flipping out.


 
He lied.

He didn't couch it as a theoretical question...I heard him ask it_...he lied._



> So Joe somes taxes---do you realize how many people owe taxes. Fuck taxes. And he has medical bills ? OMG shocking!
> Joe the Plumber asks a singel question and sends the American presidential election spinning. One guy. Think about it .


 
Nobody's spinning, dude.

We're too used to liars like this working for Republican causes, that nobody is really surprised.

What that nitwit didn't understand is that even if he had bought a plumbing company for $250,000, it wouldn't have made $250,000 net profit to get hit by Obama's 3% tax increase for that bracket.

So even his theoretical question was based on his stupidity.

Joe the plumber is a quintessential republican loyal.

He doesn't really make much money, but he's hoping he might and if he does, he doesn't want to pay any taxes.

Pretty typical of small businessmen Republicans, really.

None of them are well served by the party they support, they don't make much more than your average American does, but they're hoping that some day the master class will touch them and bring them into the big house where they can be better paid house slaves.

They're pathetic people, really.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 17, 2008)

What mystifies me about this entire thing is why, seemingly suddenly, Republicans are _against_ tax cuts? For the middle class, yet.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Oct 17, 2008)

Man you Liberals are really afraid of Joe the Plumber aren't ya? You're going after him like you went after Sarah Palin.

Obamabot Liberals: "Must. Destroy. Palin. Must. Destroy. Joe".

I like the fact that Taxes have now been injected into the political conversation. That's never good for liberals. Hehehehehehe!


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Man you Liberals are really afraid of Joe the Plumber aren't ya? You're going after him like you went after Sarah Palin.
> 
> Obamabot Liberals: "Must. Destroy. Palin. Must. Destroy. Joe".
> 
> I like the fact that Taxes have now been injected into the political conversation. That's never good for liberals. Hehehehehehe!



Being exposed as a fraud, tax dodger and liar doesn't help you Mad.  Plus it turns out Joe will do better under Obama's plan.  So will 95% of us.  McCain wants to tax our health coverage?    Who thought of that one?

He told Obama that he was a plumber and was hoping to buy his bosss business, which he said made $250,000 to $280,000 a year. He was concerned, he said, that Obamas economic proposals would mean hed be kicked into a higher tax bracket. (JOE LIED)

Wurzelbacher said he worked under the license held by his boss, Al Newell of Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo. Newell is a licensed plumbing contractor in Toledo, records show. But anyone working under Newell should have a journeymans plumbing license or an apprenticeship license, officials said. 

The Toledo Plumbing Board of Control may consider sanctions against Wurzelbacher or Newell, officials told NBC affiliate WNWO of Toledo. 

Wurzelbacher also acknowledged that he had no specific plans for buying Newells business, saying he and Newell had simply talked about the idea from time to time. He might have difficulty making the purchase: Court records from his divorce show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006. 

Even if he did buy Newell Plumbing and Heating, Obamas tax plan wouldnt affect him. While Wurzelbacher told Obama that he would be taxed at a higher rate because the company grossed more than $250,000 a year, Ohio business records show the companys estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that. 

In any event, Obamas tax plan specifies that the higher rate would apply only to income above the $250,000 threshold. Assuming Wurzelbachers income as owner somehow hit $280,000  the top end of his supposition of the companys revenue  only the extra $30,000 would be taxed at a higher rate.

Wurzelbacher, a registered Republican, refused to say whom he would vote for, insisting that I want the American people to vote for who they want to vote for. I just want them to be informed when they make that vote. 

But he hinted that his choice would be McCain, the Republican standard-bearer, whom he said it would be an honor to meet. Asked about other issues by a covey of curious reporters, Wurzelbacher voiced strongly Republican opinions. 

Social Securitys a joke, he said. I have parents. I dont need another set of parents called the government. Let me take my money and invest it how I please. 

And on the war in Iraq, which McCain has strongly supported: Im not sorry were in Iraq. ... Its made us safer. I absolutely believe that. 

And court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Man you Liberals are really afraid of Joe the Plumber aren't ya? You're going after him like you went after Sarah Palin.
> 
> Obamabot Liberals: "Must. Destroy. Palin. Must. Destroy. Joe".
> 
> I like the fact that Taxes have now been injected into the political conversation. That's never good for liberals. Hehehehehehe!



You guys then are afraid of Obama, Ayers, Wright & Rezko?


----------



## Silence (Oct 17, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..



Perhaps you've been living under a rock for the last two years.  

Here is what I know about Obama

His mother's name was Stanley Ann, she was from KS 

His father's name was Barack Sr. he was from Kenya

They met while both were students in HI.

They married in 1961 and Obama was born shortly there after in August 

They divorced when Barack was 2 and he saw his father one time between the age of 2 and 21 when his father died in a car accident

His mother married an indonesian man and moved Barack to indonesia where he lived from the age of 6 to 10

From 10 on he was raised in HI by his maternal grandparents

His mother died at the age of 53 of cancer 

Barack went to Columbia University where he studied international affairs

He graduate magna cum laude from Harvard Law and became the first African American elected as President of the Harvard Law Review.  

He met his wife Michelle when he worked as an associate at a law firm and they married in 1991 and have two children, both girls.  

Upon graduation from Harvard Obama returned to Chicago and worked within communities which were struggling due to job loss and other economic hardships



I can go on and one if you'd like... 

If you don't know anything about Barack Obama it's not because the information isn't out there, it's because you don't WANT to know anything about him.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..



First off, he isn't a plumber.  The Toledo Plumbing Board of Control may consider sanctions against Wurzelbacher or Newell, officials told NBC affiliate WNWO of Toledo.

Second, court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes.

3rd, he was planted by the GOP.  

Social Securitys a joke, he said. I have parents. I dont need another set of parents called the government. Let me take my money and invest it how I please. 

And on the war in Iraq, which McCain has strongly supported: Im not sorry were in Iraq. ... Its made us safer. I absolutely believe that.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> 3rd, he was planted by the GOP.
> 
> .



Prove it


----------



## NOBama (Oct 17, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours.  Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong?  He asked a question and Obama answered it..



It's the art of distraction. The Obama campaign has mastered it and the leftist media ignores it.


----------



## editec (Oct 17, 2008)

> He told Obama that he was a plumber and was hoping to buy his boss&#8217;s business, which he said made $250,000 to $280,000 a year. He was concerned, he said, that Obama&#8217;s economic proposals would mean he&#8217;d be kicked into a higher tax bracket. (JOE LIED)


 
If my memory serves me he actually said he wanted _to buy_ a business which COST $250-280K.

Apparently this genuis who apparently doesn't have a pot to pss in or a window to throw it out of, doesn't understand the difference between the cost of a business and the concept of taxingt on a businesses net profits.

He is a lying Republican loyalist, after all, so his confusion about accounting and ignorance about Obama tax proposal shouldn't really surpise many of us.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2008)

editec said:


> If my memory serves me he actually said he wanted _to buy_ a business which COST $250-280K.
> 
> Apparently this genuis who apparently doesn't have a pot to pss in or a window to throw it out of, doesn't understand the difference between the cost of a business and the concept of taxingt on a businesses net profits.
> 
> He is a lying Republican loyalist, after all, so his confusion about accounting and ignorance about Obama tax proposal shouldn't really surpise many of us.



Both of these candidates would look like shit if they had to field unscripted questions from random Americans, republicans OR democrats.


----------



## Silence (Oct 17, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Prove it



why else would he go to an Obama rally, ask a "hypothetical question" (presented as a reality) about Obama's tax plan only to then have McCain bring him up in the debate BY NAME no less?  how many rope line conversations does Obama have on a daily basis and THIS is the one that the GOP jumps on?  a man who happens to be a staunch Republican who basically lied about what he makes, where he works, how long he's worked there and his financial situation?  c'mon dillo, use the big head to do your thinking this time dude.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2008)

Silence said:


> why else would he go to an Obama rally, ask a "hypothetical question" (presented as a reality) about Obama's tax plan only to then have McCain bring him up in the debate BY NAME no less?  how many rope line conversations does Obama have on a daily basis and THIS is the one that the GOP jumps on?  a man who happens to be a staunch Republican who basically lied about what he makes, where he works, how long he's worked there and his financial situation?  c'mon dillo, use the big head to do your thinking this time dude.



no---that is called specualtion--you are guessing----PROVE IT.

As I understand it the ropeline was right in front of Joe's house btw--how odd he should be there.


----------



## Navy1960 (Oct 17, 2008)

IMHO, this situation with Joe  is all that is wrong with this election.  Here is a man that voices his opinion and asks a question and  what he gets in return is shredded  here and and in  the national media in an attempt to make him look smaller so the message of the Candidate looks better. I have no doubt had the situation been reversed then the McCain campaign would be talking about  Joe's communist ties to those mean nasty blue collar types. So rather than focus the attention of this country on what matters which are the men who are running for the office we focus and attack on the people voting for them now as , now you have to have the "right" qualifications to ask a question or even vote for a candidate. What a sad state of affairs this has  come to, and it leaves me with little confidence that with the rise to power of McCain or Obama that it will get any better.


----------



## Missourian (Oct 17, 2008)

[youtube]vFC9jv9jfoA[/youtube]


This thread is lame.

Who cares about Joe the Plumber...Senator Obama answered the question based on Joe's scenario.  Whether Joe ended up being a small business owner or an Indiana Jones Saucerman from Outerspace is 100% deflection and doesn't change Senator Obama's answer one iota.


Joe is not the focal point of the issue...Senator Obama's answer is.


----------



## NOBama (Oct 17, 2008)

I cant begin to tell you how many journeymen Ive talked to over the years that say Im a plumber or Im an electrician or Im a carpenter, et cetera. Its common place, especially with among those studying to take the certification exams.

Does anybody have any proof that Joe is a Republican loyalist or is that just an asumption based on the fact that he once lived in AZ? I may have missed some new developments regarding this.


----------



## NOBama (Oct 17, 2008)

Missourian said:


> [youtube]vFC9jv9jfoA[/youtube]
> 
> 
> This thread is lame.
> ...



Good point MO man. Even if Joe turns out to be a scambag. Tne conversation with Obama was indeed based on the scenario presented.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 17, 2008)

NObama said:


> Good point MO man. Even if Joe turns out to be a scambag. Tne conversation with Obama was indeed based on the scenario presented.


Which was also mischaracterized. You people are very amusing.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> no---that is called specualtion--you are guessing----PROVE IT.
> 
> As I understand it the ropeline was right in front of Joe's house btw--how odd he should be there.



Were too tired to prove anything else to you dumb mother fuckers.

1.  The economy is not good
2. Bush lied about WMD's
3. The Iraq war is not going well
4. Wages are down
5. Bush knew 9-11 was going to happen
6. They politicized the Justice Department
7. Republicans are not fiscally responsible

You defended every lie they told and we wore ourselves out proving each thing to you and still you continue to flap your gums.

We have to prove things that can't be proven yet are blatently obvious?  

How about we just vote your party out of office next month?


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

NObama said:


> Good point MO man. Even if Joe turns out to be a scambag. Tne conversation with Obama was indeed based on the scenario presented.



Let's do the math retard.  If you make $260K, you'll be taxed 3% higher than you would now if Obama is president, so that's $300.

So a guy making $260K will pay $300 more under Obama.  Wealth redistribution?    What a cheap ass!  

And you are a house slave, because I know you don't make that kind of scratch.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Were too tired to prove anything else to you dumb mother fuckers.
> 
> 1.  The economy is not good
> 2. Bush lied about WMD's
> ...



ok just carry on with the guesswork, bobo


----------



## Mad Scientist (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> First off, he isn't a plumber.  The Toledo Plumbing Board of Control may consider sanctions against Wurzelbacher or Newell, officials told NBC affiliate WNWO of Toledo.


Actually he *is* a plumber, he just can't run a plumbing company by himself. When he buys a plumbing company or starts one, he'll have to get a license then. When I worked in Aviation, I supervised unlicensed (not illegal alien) tech workers and then signed off their work with my license. Perfectly legal. The same is true in the plumbing industry.


sealybobo said:


> Second, court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes.


That's proof right there that he's being overtaxed at least $1200. And guess who's campaign treasurer has a current tax lien? I'll give you two guesses and first one doesn't count.


sealybobo said:


> 3rd, he was planted by the GOP.


The left has a history of planted audience member in debates and fake racial attack victims. So I could see why you would think it's a fake.


sealybobo said:


> Social Securitys a joke, he said. I have parents. *I dont need another set of parents called the government.* Let me take my money and invest it how I please.
> And on the war in Iraq, which McCain has strongly supported: Im not sorry were in Iraq. ... *Its made us safer*. I absolutely believe that.


True statements there. But you forgot to list two smears:
"He's a racist for calling Obama's tap dance as good as Sammy Davis Jr's.
and
"He's not registered to vote!" (He *is* registered)

Must. Destroy. Joe. The Plumber.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 17, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Actually he *is* a plumber, he just can't run a plumbing company by himself. When he buys a plumbing company or starts one, he'll have to get a license then. When I worked in Aviation, I supervised unlicensed (not illegal alien) tech workers and then signed off their work with my license. Perfectly legal. The same is true in the plumbing industry.
> 
> That's proof right there that he's being overtaxed at least $1200. And guess who's campaign treasurer has a current tax lien? I'll give you two guesses and first one doesn't count.
> 
> ...


Hey, Mad Scientist...he apparently owes the state the tax money. So, do you condone people breaking the law because they feel put upon?


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Actually he *is* a plumber, he just can't run a plumbing company by himself. When he buys a plumbing company or starts one, he'll have to get a license then. When I worked in Aviation, I supervised unlicensed (not illegal alien) tech workers and then signed off their work with my license. Perfectly legal. The same is true in the plumbing industry.
> 
> That's proof right there that he's being overtaxed at least $1200. And guess who's campaign treasurer has a current tax lien? I'll give you two guesses and first one doesn't count.



No, anyone working under Newell should have a journeyman&#8217;s plumbing license or an apprenticeship license, officials said. 

The Toledo Plumbing Board of Control may consider sanctions against Wurzelbacher or Newell, officials told NBC affiliate WNWO of Toledo. 

Just like a doctor should not have me helping him/her with an operation.  See Mad, there are reasons rules and regulations are in place.  A guy like Joe goes in and isn't trained or certified and that's bullshit.  He is not a fucking plumber.  He's a plumbers assistant.

And I'm not behind on my taxes.  Does that mean I'm not taxed too much?

Maybe he's just a dumb fucking guy who isn't good with his money.  Another fucking reason why he should thank god for social security, because his broke ass isn't going to ever retire.  EVER.  Unless his uncle Charles Keating leaves him something that is.  

AND, Joe is another great example of a conservative.  Divorced and domestic violence.  I wonder if he blames his moral decay on gays.


----------



## editec (Oct 17, 2008)

NObama said:


> I cant begin to tell you how many journeymen Ive talked to over the years that say Im a plumber or Im an electrician or Im a carpenter, et cetera. Its common place, especially with among those studying to take the certification exams.
> 
> Does anybody have any proof that Joe is a Republican loyalist or is that just an asumption based on the fact that he once lived in AZ? I may have missed some new developments regarding this.


 

Who else would LIE about himself, plus get his lie confused on the specifics, but someone who was motivated to put it to Obama?

The man got what he wanted.

He is famous and he has proven to be loyal enough to the Republican cause to lie on its behalf.

I expect he'll now have no problem finding that money to buy that business, and I expect that business will do very well as fellow republicans reward him with business, too.

Smart guy, really.


----------



## Contessa_Sharra (Oct 17, 2008)

cindylee said:


> Funny thing, how Obama has been running for President for 2 years and we know nothing about him but "Joe the Plumber" asks Obama a question and the media digs his whole life up in 24 hours. Amazing....what exactly did the plumber do wrong? He asked a question and Obama answered it..


 

"JOE the Plumber's HELPER" is a poser!

He did not actually ask a question, he attempted to set Obama up. Unfortunately for Joe, a PLUMBER'S HELPER, LMAO, is not smart enough, nor does he have the resources to avoid detection in this sort of thing.

Now, WHAT exactly is it that you DO NOT KNOW about Obama?  

If you know nothing about him you need to hire a better reader, or turn up the hearing aid! 

AND BTW: Honestly, his bowel functions are none of your freaking business!!!!!


----------



## NOBama (Oct 17, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Which was also mischaracterized. You people are very amusing.



What amuses me is that you can't recon with the fact that Obama responded to a scenario presented to him. I have no reason to assume that Obama gave less than a truthful response to that scenario, do you?

The issue is not Joe or his creditability, the issue is the response to the scenario presented and the response given.

Obamas response was quite telling, regardless of the validity of the scenario or the creditability of the individual presenting it.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Hey, Mad Scientist...he apparently owes the state the tax money. So, do you condone people breaking the law because they feel put upon?



It's not against the law to owe taxes. What kind of silly shit is that ?


----------



## Mad Scientist (Oct 17, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Hey, Mad Scientist...he apparently owes the state the tax money. So, do you condone people breaking the law because they feel put upon?


I've owed state and federal taxes before, millions of others have too. That doesn't make us scoff laws, it makes us overtaxed.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 17, 2008)

NObama said:


> What amuses me is that you can't recon with the fact that Obama responded to a scenario presented to him. I have no reason to assume that Obama gave less than a truthful response to that scenario, do you?
> 
> The issue is not Joe or his creditability, the issue is the response to the scenario presented and the response given.
> 
> Obamas response was quite telling, regardless of the validity of the scenario or the creditability of the individual presenting it.


His response was that cutting middle class taxes helps spread the wealth by letting the middle class keep and spend more of their money. Why would a republican object to that exactly?


----------



## Contessa_Sharra (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Let's do the math retard. If you make $260K, you'll be taxed 3% higher than you would now if Obama is president, so that's $300.
> 
> So a guy making $260K will pay $300 more under Obama. Wealth redistribution?  What a cheap ass!
> 
> And you are a house slave, because I know you don't make that kind of scratch.


 

taxed at one rate for the amount up to 250K and taxed at the higher rate on the amount over 250K...............

What is the cost of two Latte ventes at Starbucks, once a week?

Or that pack a day habit, at $5+ most of which is taxes anyway......


----------



## Ravi (Oct 17, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> I've owed state and federal taxes before, millions of others have too. That doesn't make us scoff laws, it makes us overtaxed.


That could be true, I've got no idea in Joe's case. So he thinks he pays too much in tax and he is against a plan that cuts his tax. Okay, he is a moron. A total and complete loon.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Oct 17, 2008)

Ravi said:


> His response was that cutting middle class taxes helps spread the wealth by letting the middle class keep and spend more of their money. Why would a republican object to that exactly?


Because the tax hikes that he want's to pu on business are going to negatively affect those in the middle and on the bottom. Business aren't just gonna' say "Our taxes went up? Oh well, i guess we get less profit this year".

Businesses are gonna' raise the price of their products by the rate of tax increase, decrease hiring or move those jobs overseas.


----------



## NOBama (Oct 17, 2008)

Ravi said:


> His response was that cutting middle class taxes helps spread the wealth by letting the middle class keep and spend more of their money. Why would a republican object to that exactly?



Get off that bridge to nowhere and you'll probably be able to figure it out. If you're looking for a Republican response, perhaps one will answer soon.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 17, 2008)

Ravi said:


> That could be true, I've got no idea in Joe's case. So he thinks he pays too much in tax and he is against a plan that cuts his tax. Okay, he is a moron. A total and complete loon.



It's quite common for you to ramble on not caring if something is true or not.

I think you should continue what you have done and just call him a loon because he's not a liberal. At least there's some honesty to it.


----------



## Mad Scientist (Oct 17, 2008)

Ravi said:


> That could be true, I've got no idea in Joe's case. So he thinks he pays too much in tax and he is against a plan that cuts his tax. Okay, he is a moron. A total and complete loon.


Joe already acknowledged in the interview that he'd get a tax refund under Obama's plan. That's not what he's concerned about.
He said "When I make more than 250,000 dollars a year I don't want my taxes to be raised (I'm paraphrasing here). Why should I be punished for my success?" 

And I, and millions of voters, agree.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 17, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> Joe already acknowledged in the interview that he'd get a tax refund under Obama's plan. That's not what he's concerned about.
> He said "When I make more than 250,000 dollars a year I don't want my taxes to be raised (I'm paraphrasing here). Why should I be punished for my success?"
> 
> And I, and millions of voters, agree.


That would have been a legitimate question but that isn't what he asked.


----------



## BahWhack_Odamma (Oct 17, 2008)

Joe may make $250,000, but he does owe back taxes.  I am going to tax people like Joe who are in the top 5%.  It isn't going to affect you.  With the taxes you don't have to pay will be covered by the less wages you will earn under my presidency.  We are going to take back our economy from the last eight years, and make it even better for unemployment.  The rate shouldn't be 6%.  I believe it should be more.  By taxing the rich, there are consequences that i cannot reveal.  If i did, i probably won't be elected.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

Mad Scientist said:


> I've owed state and federal taxes before, millions of others have too. That doesn't make us scoff laws, it makes us overtaxed.



And I've never owed so I must be taxed just right.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

Contessa_Sharra said:


> taxed at one rate for the amount up to 250K and taxed at the higher rate on the amount over 250K...............
> 
> What is the cost of two Latte ventes at Starbucks, once a week?
> 
> Or that pack a day habit, at $5+ most of which is taxes anyway......



I guestimated that Bush & Chaney & the GOP cost me at least $500 more per year for gas with all the speculation and gouging, so fuck these rich whiners.


----------



## BahWhack_Odamma (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> And I've never owed so I must be taxed just right.



Because you don't make enough to pay them.  People like sealybobo will benefit.  They won't lose jobs that they don't already have.  They will get health care that the top payers of this country will be able to support and provide.  Redistribution of wealth is an ideal that the little guy who couldn't launch a company like Apple or Google, will get a chance.   That everyone will be mediocre.  On the same playing field.   The visible hand of government has worked.  The liberal policies of the 1960s have made minorities like African-Americans better off.   The 1970s is an example of that.   Back then, you could afford 2 ipods.  Today, you can only afford 1.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

BahWhack_Odamma said:


> Joe may make $250,000, but he does owe back taxes.  I am going to tax people like Joe who are in the top 5%.  It isn't going to affect you.  With the taxes you don't have to pay will be covered by the less wages you will earn under my presidency.  We are going to take back our economy from the last eight years, and make it even better for unemployment.  The rate shouldn't be 6%.  I believe it should be more.  By taxing the rich, there are consequences that i cannot reveal.  If i did, i probably won't be elected.



See!  What did I tell you.  Threaten us.  If you don't get your way, you'll tank the economy.  Sorta like the $700 billion you just stole on your way out the door.  

Are you George Bush?  I can totally see him coming up with BahWhack Odamma.  That's probably how he would spell it, even when trying to be serious.  

Our founding fathers warned us of Corporations getting too powerful and too involved with our politicians.  I guess we now see why.  

I say the government should give a loan to a new bank, a new oil company, a new insurance company, a new health care provider.  Ones that are non profit.  And then your business' will have to compete against them.


----------



## BahWhack_Odamma (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> See!  What did I tell you.  Threaten us.  If you don't get your way, you'll tank the economy.  Sorta like the $700 billion you just stole on your way out the door.
> 
> Are you George Bush?  I can totally see him coming up with BahWhack Odamma.  That's probably how he would spell it, even when trying to be serious.
> 
> ...



I voted with my fellow friend, George W. Bush.  Who i adored.  He has served this country well.   Because of him, Democrats are taking power.  We should thank Bush.  Without him, there wouldn't be me, BahWhack Urinsane Odamma.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

BahWhack_Odamma said:


> Because you don't make enough to pay them.  People like sealybobo will benefit.  They won't lose jobs that they don't already have.  They will get health care that the top payers of this country will be able to support.  Redistribution of wealth is an ideal that the little guy who couldn't launch a company like Apple or Google, will get a chance.   That everyone will be mediocre.  On the same playing field.



How many people launched an Apple or Google?  Fuck them.  There are WAY more of us worker bees than there are Bill Gates.  Fuck them!

And I make very good money.  I work for a HUGE company.  And every year the health care goes up.  And every year the cost of living goes up and I don't remember the last raise.  I'm in sales, and companies aren't buying as much in a GOP economy, you dumb fuck.  Who are you?  

Yes, i'm smart enough to know that I pay way too much for health care.  And for about the same, we can insure EVERYONE, and I'm not a cold callous bitch like you.  Karma my friend.  Someone you love might get fucked by the very bad system that you defend.  Maybe you.


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## Missourian (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> And I've never owed so I must be taxed just right.



I think you'd be amazed at the taxes you pay:

Sales tax

Gasoline tax

Property tax

Telephone tax

Federal Income tax

State Income tax

Social security tax

ETC....

Here's a video from youtube: 

[youtube]1-eqG7tvrzk[/youtube]​


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## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

BahWhack_Odamma said:


> I voted with my fellow friend, George W. Bush.  Who i adored.  He has served this country well.   Because of him, Democrats are taking power.  We should thank Bush.  Without him, there wouldn't be me, BahWhack Urinsane Odamma.



You defended Bush for 8 years.  And you would vote for him again if he were running, dumb fuck.


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## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

Missourian said:


> I think you'd be amazed at the taxes you pay:
> 
> Sales tax
> 
> ...



I can't see the video at work, but I'm assuming it's freedom to fascism?  I'm a huge fan.  

I hate income tax.  We should abolish it.  But not abolish it for the top 10% and have the debt that WE ALL OWE double.


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## Otter_Creek (Oct 17, 2008)

> No, anyone working under Newell should have a journeyman&#8217;s plumbing license or an apprenticeship license, officials said.
> 
> The Toledo Plumbing Board of Control may consider sanctions against Wurzelbacher or Newell, officials told NBC affiliate WNWO of Toledo.



You sick libs make me want to puke.
What a friend you all are to the blue collar worker. Assholes


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## BahWhack_Odamma (Oct 17, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> You defended Bush for 8 years.  And you would vote for him again if he were running, dumb fuck.



You are right.  I defended Bush for 8 years by voting for his economic policy, the $700 billion bailout.   I defended his eight years of economic policy by voting for it.   It's about Wall Street.   The people in Main Street won't know what hit them when i'm through.  The only difference between me and my fellow buddy, George Dubya, i will be beloved my media and his so-called liberal opposition.   We need to be united.  Bush, are fellow liberal under the disguise to ruin the conservative values, has done a fine job.  He went to an Ivy league school.  I went to one as well.  

The big question, do you work for yahoo?  If you don't, they are offering jobs for people to be bots in chat room.  You fit the qualification.


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## N4mddissent (Oct 17, 2008)

There has been some discussion about Joe's question and its relationship to the actual situation. 

First, let me say the those defending Joe have a couple of points.  It is not fair to say Joe was a "plant" by the Republicans without proof.  Second, it is valid to critique Obama's response whether the situation was real or hypothetical.  

However, I believe the negative reaction and the importance of the real situation should not be dismissed.  The importance of Joe the Plumber as a symbol, one latched onto by the McCain campaign as evidenced by his repeated mentions in the debate, is at issue as well.  To the McCain campaign, Joe the Plumber was a tangible symbol of the blue-collar working class American which they intended to use as a rebuttal to Obama's assertion that the average, middle class worker would benefit rather than pay increased taxes under his plan.  I will admit, it struck me as strange when Joe was first mentioned, because although I know plumbers can make a very good living, it seemed at the very least unusual that one we bring home more than my family doctor.  

The McCain campaign would not benefit greatly by showing a well-to-do financial advisor, bank manager, surgeon, or corporate lawyer who would be taxed higher under Obama's plan.  They needed someone who represented the blue-collar type who would be hurt.  They thought they had it in Joe, but that's where the reality of the situation becomes important.  Since the situation Joe described seems to be considerable at odds with his actual situation, then using him as a symbol was a mistake at best, and misleading at worst.  I don't fault the McCain campaign or accuse them of intentionally misleading in this case, but they should refrain from attempting to use him as a symbol from this point forward.  If they want an example, they should actively find a blue-collar worker type who fits the situation they want to demonstrate.  If they can't find one, perhaps they should find a different avenue of attack on the tax plan since it would seem at that point that Obama's claim to help middle-class workers is valid.


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## Missourian (Oct 17, 2008)

What surprised me was Senator Obama's contention that a National Sales Tax would have to be 40% to generate the revenue that income tax generates today.  I have no doubt that 40% is close to accurate.

But just think about how much real money that is.  Every product sold in the United States would need to increase 40%.  


"A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon it adds up to real money."
-Senator Everett Dirksen (1896  1969)​


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## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

N4mddissent said:


> There has been some discussion about Joe's question and its relationship to the actual situation.
> 
> First, let me say the those defending Joe have a couple of points.  It is not fair to say Joe was a "plant" by the Republicans without proof.  Second, it is valid to critique Obama's response whether the situation was real or hypothetical.
> 
> ...




You are right.  They are trying to make the argument for the people at the bottom of the top 10%. 

I just don't feel sorry for the people making more than $250k.  They sure don't feel for us.  And I'm not afraid they'll punish us.  That's slave mentality.  

Most of them are voting for McCain, right?  They voted for Bush?

So why would I agree with them? 

Plus do the math, it's an extra $300 in taxes per $10K over $250k.


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## N4mddissent (Oct 17, 2008)

> What surprised me was Senator Obama's contention that a National Sales Tax would have to be 40% to generate the revenue that income tax generates today. I have no doubt that 40% is close to accurate.



That's probably pretty accurate.  There are a couple of things about a Nat. Sales Tax though.  First, are all items taxed?  Including necessities like food?  If so, you are going to create a serious poverty situation where people on the low end of the income scale find basic necessities priced out of reach.  Not to mention that the middle class would probably cut back on a lot of purchases if the sales tax went that high.  Things like TV's, ipods, and other unnecessary goods would look a lot less attractive with that sort of mark-up, even with savings created by not paying income tax.  After all, many other more basic goods will tend to eat away those savings.  Plus you're going to have to start federally taxing internet purchases.  After all, with a %40 sales tax, a lot goods would be purchased online to avoid it unless the tax is implemented there too.  The wealthy would pay more when purchasing expensive luxury items, but all of their investments would no longer be taxed, and let's face it, with a %40 sales tax, the rich can afford to make large purchases overseas while on vacation and avoid the tax completely.  New $100,000 diamond necklace for the lady?  Pick that up on my next trip to Antwerp.  And things like a new set tools for the average guy to use to make repairs at home would be priced at the point of being a burden.  Those who can afford to pay for others to perform maintenance would probably see minimal increase unless services are taxed as well.  It seems to me like a con by those who don't want to give much back to country that provided the opportunity for their financial success.


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## sealybobo (Oct 17, 2008)

N4mddissent said:


> That's probably pretty accurate.  There are a couple of things about a Nat. Sales Tax though.  First, are all items taxed?  Including necessities like food?  If so, you are going to create a serious poverty situation where people on the low end of the income scale find basic necessities priced out of reach.  Not to mention that the middle class would probably cut back on a lot of purchases if the sales tax went that high.  Things like TV's, ipods, and other unnecessary goods would look a lot less attractive with that sort of mark-up, even with savings created by not paying income tax.  After all, many other more basic goods will tend to eat away those savings.  Plus you're going to have to start federally taxing internet purchases.  After all, with a %40 sales tax, a lot goods would be purchased online to avoid it unless the tax is implemented there too.  The wealthy would pay more when purchasing expensive luxury items, but all of their investments would no longer be taxed, and let's face it, with a %40 sales tax, the rich can afford to make large purchases overseas while on vacation and avoid the tax completely.  New $100,000 diamond necklace for the lady?  Pick that up on my next trip to Antwerp.  And things like a new set tools for the average guy to use to make repairs at home would be priced at the point of being a burden.  Those who can afford to pay for others to perform maintenance would probably see minimal increase unless services are taxed as well.  It seems to me like a con by those who don't want to give much back to country that provided the opportunity for their financial success.



No, necessities would not be taxed.

Conservatives are right.  We spend way beyond our means.  Debt and credit are our problem.  So if we can't afford an IPOD or Big Screen because of the sales tax, maybe we shouldn't buy it.  

But then in the next breath they'll tell us that we have to start spending or the economy won't fix itself.

Maybe the rich should start spending some of the money they picked up under Bush's tax cuts? 

If the rich buy overseas and get caught smuggling in that contraband, then we will put them in jail or fine them 10 times the cost of the neclace.  This will be another reason to invest in airport security.


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## jreeves (Oct 17, 2008)

editec said:


> If my memory serves me he actually said he wanted _to buy_ a business which COST $250-280K.
> 
> Apparently this genuis who apparently doesn't have a pot to pss in or a window to throw it out of, doesn't understand the difference between the cost of a business and the concept of taxingt on a businesses net profits.
> 
> ...


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## elvis (Oct 17, 2008)

Otter_Creek said:


> You sick libs make me want to puke.
> What a friend you all are to the blue collar worker. Assholes



there aren't very many blue-collar workers left.


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## oreo (Oct 17, 2008)

NObama said:


> You forgot to include the most important part of the article in your quotes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




DITTO--*It happened to me one time too.  I received this $5400.00 tax lien notice from the IRS on a tax return of two years prior.*  I had to take down my cancelled check & show it to them.  Boy was I ticked off.  The  IRS never even said they were "sorry".  They acted like it was an everyday thing that happened.

_*Joe the Plummer owing $1200 from Jan. 2007 is absolutely nothing. * It could be an amount that is currently being debated between Joe's tax accountant & the IRS.  In fact, it's so recent, it could even be an amount that the IRS has not even informed or questioned him about.  The IRS has 3 years to do so._

However, I cannot believe the media monsters that went after Joe the Plummer like this.  He "may" owe the IRS a meezly $1200 & all of a sudden he is a criminal--someone who is not to be taken seriously.  Or Joe the Plummer, like me, may have a cancelled check showing he actually paid the $1200? 

*I guess, the media in this country just told the average everyday Joe's in this country, never to ask Barack Obama a hard question again.*


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## oreo (Oct 17, 2008)

elvis3577 said:


> there aren't very many blue-collar workers left.



Yep--we blue collar workers are under appreciated in this country.

Electricity is out--computer, hair-dryer, lights, outlets, T.V, Video, Water, heat, air-conditioning, range won't work, in fact nothing works. 

Plumbing is out-NO WATER--no water to take shower/bath, wash dishes, run washing machine, flush toilet or brush teeth.

*In fact, the only time we're more popular than Barack Obama is when the above are not working.*


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## Modbert (Oct 17, 2008)

I wonder if anyone notices the irony that because of McCain that Joe the Plumber may not be able to be a Plumber anymore?

Since you know, where he works you need to be a licensed Plumber and he isn't.


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## DiveCon (Oct 17, 2008)

Modbert said:


> I wonder if anyone notices the irony that because of McCain that Joe the Plumber may not be able to be a Plumber anymore?
> 
> Since you know, where he works you need to be a licensed Plumber and he isn't.


actually, i do believe you are incorrect
they only license the contractors


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## oreo (Oct 17, 2008)

Modbert said:


> I wonder if anyone notices the irony that because of McCain that Joe the Plumber may not be able to be a Plumber anymore?
> 
> Since you know, where he works you need to be a licensed Plumber and he isn't.




Joe is an apprentice plumber.  Why is it you guys don't get it.  He has filed to take his master plumbing examination.  Look up Ohio--state board of plumbing & you will see that Joe had to do several years as an apprentice--meaning working for a "licensed" plumbing contracting company.  This particular company Joe plans to buy.    After so many supervised (working on the job) years he is eligible to take his masters plumbing examination.  Once he passes this, he is more than eligible to be master plumber of his own company.  

You didn't really think that electricians & plumbers go to universities to get their electrical & plumbing licenses, did you?


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## DiveCon (Oct 17, 2008)

oreo said:


> Joe is an apprentice plumber. Why is it you guys don't get it. He has filed to take his master plumbing examination. Look up Ohio--state board of plumbing & you will see that Joe had to do several years as an apprentice--meaning working for a plumbing company. This particular company he plans to buy. After so many supervised (working on the job) years he is eligible to take his masters plumbing examination.
> 
> *You didn't really think that electricians & plumbers go to universities to get their electrical & plumbing licenses*, did you?


some do
but more to trade schools


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## Modbert (Oct 17, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> some do
> but more to trade schools



Exactly, but I guess Oreo failed to see the irony in my comment.

Those blinders can do that sometimes. He's not actually considered a licensed Plumber, so McCain could actually cost him his living.


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## oreo (Oct 17, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> some do
> but more to trade schools





NO,NO,NO--I am a licensed electrical contractor in the State of Colorado.  I have been in my own business for the last 30 years.  The only trade school that I have ever seen is a 3 month course--that basically scrapes the surface of what an electrical apprentice is.  It's always on the job training.  There are no 4 year college or university courses that trains electricians & plumbers.

For example:  Wireman license--2 years documented residential on the job training.  Journeyman's license-- 2 years documented residential & 2 years commercial on the job training.  Masters license-- after passing the Journeyman's license another year to be spent in job foreman supervision experience & documented by the licensed electrical contractor.

*Plumbing licenses are exactly the same format.*


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## oreo (Oct 17, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Exactly, but I guess Oreo failed to see the irony in my comment.
> 
> Those blinders can do that sometimes. He's not actually considered a licensed Plumber, so McCain could actually cost him his living.




Joe the plumber is working for a licensed plumbing contractor.  He is not in his own business, he is studying to take his masters license.  He is doing absolutely nothing wrong. 

It's *you* that does not have an understanding of how plumbers & for that matter electricians are licensed & what state government regulations are regarding the licensing of plumbers & electricians.


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## DiveCon (Oct 17, 2008)

oreo said:


> NO,NO,NO--I am a licensed electrical contractor in the State of Colorado.  I have been in my own business for the last 30 years.  The only trade school that I have ever seen is a 3 month course--that basically scrapes the surface of what an electrical apprentice is.  It's always on the job training.  There are no 4 year college or university courses that trains electricians & plumbers.
> 
> For example:  Wireman license--2 years documented residential on the job training.  Journeyman's license-- 2 years documented residential & 2 years commercial on the job training.  Masters license-- after passing the Journeyman's license another year to be spent in job foreman supervision experience & documented by the licensed electrical contractor.
> 
> *Plumbing licenses are exactly the same format.*


thats why i said "some do"
not all


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## DiveCon (Oct 17, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Exactly, but I guess Oreo failed to see the irony in my comment.
> 
> Those blinders can do that sometimes. He's not actually considered a licensed Plumber, so McCain could actually cost him his living.


ROFLMAO
you are one to be talking about blinders


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## Modbert (Oct 17, 2008)

oreo said:


> NO,NO,NO--I am a licensed electrical contractor in the State of Colorado.  I have been in my own business for the last 30 years.  The only trade school that I have ever seen is a 3 month course--that basically scrapes the surface of what an electrical apprentice is.  It's always on the job training.  There are no 4 year college or university courses that trains electricians & plumbers.
> 
> For example:  Wireman license--2 years documented residential on the job training.  Journeyman's license-- 2 years documented residential & 2 years commercial on the job training.  Masters license-- after passing the Journeyman's license another year to be spent in job foreman supervision experience & documented by the licensed electrical contractor.
> 
> *Plumbing licenses are exactly the same format.*



And here I come along to basically state the facts again.

The Associated Press: 'Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license



> HOLLAND, Ohio (AP)  Joe the Plumber said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one. Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as Joe the Plumber, the nickname Republican John McCain bestowed on him during Wednesday's presidential debate, said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.
> 
> But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo





> Wurzelbacher, who voted in the Republican primary and indicated he backed McCain





> Wurzelbacher said he was surprised that his name was mentioned so many other times.
> 
> "That bothered me. I wished that they had talked more about issues that are important to Americans," he told reporters gathered outside his home.





> Wurzelbacher said Obama's tax plan wouldn't affect him right now, because he doesn't make $250,000. "But I hope someday I'll make that," he said.


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## Modbert (Oct 17, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> ROFLMAO
> you are one to be talking about blinders



Well jeez DiveCon, I'm the one stating the facts here.

Read above, I just proved one of your posts wrong.


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## oreo (Oct 17, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> thats why i said "some do"
> not all




O.K>--NO ONE can get an electrical or plumbing license out of a technical trades school.  You may be fooled into some advertisement on T.V. that says you can--but each & every state has a little article in there that says, YOU actually have to work in that state, have your on the job experience documented by a licensed plumbing or electrical contractor, before you're ever eligible to obtain even permission to take an examination.

In very simple terms.  If you plan on pursuing a career in a licensed trade occupation, make certain you find employment (first) with a licensed electrical or plumbing contractor.  Your work is your school.


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## N4mddissent (Oct 18, 2008)

Oreo, the post by Modbert seems to indicate you may have been mistaken.  Perhaps it is unusual in that it is the county requiring the license, but man up if you were wrong.


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## oreo (Oct 18, 2008)

_HOLLAND, Ohio (AP)  Joe the Plumber said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one. Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as Joe the Plumber, the nickname Republican John McCain bestowed on him during Wednesday's presidential debate, said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.

But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo _

*My Comment:*  Joe the plumber does not need a plumbing license if he is working for a licensed plumbing contractor, & is actually working with another licensed plumber--who would be his supervisor on the job.  *So Joe is correct in his statement, as Joe is an apprentice plumber:*

*My Comment on the Lucas county statement: * Of course, the county requires that plumbers be licensed.  All counties do.  If Joe were working by himself, without supervision from another licensed plumber, he would be required to have his own license.  As stated Joe is studying to take his plumbing license examination now. Joe has reached the end of his apprenticeship & is now eligible to take the plumbing examination.  Once he passes the examination he will be issued a license.  

*NOTE:*  I as an electrical contractor do not register in all counties within my state.  I do not register in counties we do not typically work in.  

_*Therefore, the statement from Lucas county that they are not licensed in that county is totally irrevelant.*  There may be no work in Lucas county, & this company works in other counties.  Joe may drive into the next county to go to work.  In the counties they work in, they would have to have a plumbing contractors license & be registered within that county._


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## Modbert (Oct 18, 2008)

N4mddissent said:


> Oreo, the post by Modbert seems to indicate you may have been mistaken.  Perhaps it is unusual in that it is the county requiring the license, but man up if you were wrong.



Well that would requiring admitting one was wrong, Republicans for the most part don't like to do that.

If Oreo does, I'll give Oreo credit for saying as such.

However, I think that's why this thread stopped getting responses.


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## Modbert (Oct 18, 2008)

oreo said:


> _HOLLAND, Ohio (AP)  Joe the Plumber said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one. Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as Joe the Plumber, the nickname Republican John McCain bestowed on him during Wednesday's presidential debate, said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.
> 
> *But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo *_
> 
> ...



My own post pointed that out about your own comment. His employer is not licensed, and by law they are suppose to be.

So therefore, your statement would be wrong until Joe works with an actual licensed Plumber business. The law also states *PLUMBERS* have to be licensed.

If this is true about what you say Joe is a apprentice Plumber and is going to take the exam, then he needs to do that. Until then, he is not a licensed plumber and therefore he can not work for a living as a plumber legally where he works now.

Simple concept no?


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## oreo (Oct 18, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Well that would requiring admitting one was wrong, Republicans for the most part don't like to do that.
> 
> If Oreo does, I'll give Oreo credit for saying as such.
> 
> However, I think that's why this thread stopped getting responses.




I am a licensed electrical contractor in the State of Colorado.  This license permits me to work anywhere in the State of Colorado.

Now, lets say I go into Chaffee county.  I am not "registered" in Chaffee county, CO.  I will not register in Chaffee UNLESS I plan on working in Chaffee county, CO.  There's no point.  So if you called Chaffee county & asked them if I was a licensed electrical contractor (in Chaffee county, they would say no.)

The building department in Lucas--stated that the plumbing contractor was not licensed in "their county".  Does Joe drive across the county line to go to work?  If so, this easily explains the response from the "local building department" in Lucas county.

BTW--it's no big deal to register with each county--again plumbing & electrical licenses are given by the state.


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## oreo (Oct 18, 2008)

Modbert said:


> My own post pointed that out about your own comment. His employer is not licensed, and by law they are suppose to be.
> 
> So therefore, your statement would be wrong until Joe works with an actual licensed Plumber business. The law also states *PLUMBERS* have to be licensed.
> 
> ...



Electrician & Plumbing "apprentices" have to be supervised by a licensed person on the job--period.  There is no in between.  If caught working by themselves on the job, the employer can be fined & other measures by the state regulatory board can be started.


There is an easy way to do this:  Go to the State of Ohio--department of regulatory agencies--then go to plumbing board.  Type in the last name of Joe's employer.  His name should come up as a licensed master plumber & then from there you should be able to find the name of his business.

It's the state that regulates plumbing & electrical contractors.  Should these contractors work in a certain "county" they must "register" with the county.  If they do not work within certain counties--"they are not required to register within that county".

I'll bet my last dime, that Joe works for a company that is not in Lucas county & or they do not work in Lucas county, therefore they have not registered with them.

We work in 5 different counties, so we're registered with 5 counties.  I believe Colorado has more than 20 counties, but we won't register until we have a job in those counties. 

_I now hope I have explained this to everyone interested._


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## Modbert (Oct 18, 2008)

oreo said:


> Electrician & Plumbing "apprentices" have to be supervised by a licensed person on the job--period.  There is no in between.  If caught working by themselves on the job, the employer can be fined & other measures by the state regulatory board can be started.
> 
> 
> There is an easy way to do this:  Go to the State of Ohio--department of regulatory agencies--then go to plumbing board.  Type in the last name of Joe's employer.  His name should come up as a licensed master plumber & then from there you should be able to find the name of his business.
> ...



toledoblade.com -- 'Joe the plumber' isn&#8217;t licensed


> Mr. Wurzelbacher told reporters Thursday morning that he worked for Newell Plumbing & Heating Co., a small local firm whose business addresses flow back to several residential homes, including one on Talmadge Road in Ottawa Hills.
> 
> According to Lucas County Building Inspection records, A. W. Newell Corp. does maintain a state plumbing license, and one with the City of Toledo, but would not be allowed to work in Lucas County outside of Toledo without a county license.



This is where he isn't a plumber:

*



			Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell&#8217;s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work.

He is also not registered to operate as a plumber in Ohio, which means he&#8217;s not a plumber.
		
Click to expand...

*


> Mr. Wurzelbacher said he is working on taking the Ohio plumbing contractors&#8217; license test.



This one is for you Oreo about the whole Apprentice thing:

*



			Mr. Wurzelbacher&#8217;s notoriety has raised the ire of Tom Joseph, business manager for Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, who claimed that Mr. Wurzelbacher didn&#8217;t undergo any apprenticeship training.
		
Click to expand...

*


> Mr. Joseph said Mr. Wurzelbacher could only legally work in the townships, but not in any municipality in Lucas County or elsewhere in the country


----------

