# Could Tea Party Canidate Herman Cain Be Viable?



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Mar 9, 2011)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110227/pl_nm/us_teaparty



			
				reuters said:
			
		

> PHOENIX (Reuters) &#8211; Rep. Ron Paul and Georgia businessman Herman Cain were conservative Tea Party activists' top picks to run against Barack Obama for president in 2012, leaving former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin in third place.




I keep talking with people about who could win vs obama.   Sure Obama has a lot of negatives from unemployment to unrest overseas but I still think he could beat the likes of Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romnewy, Pawlenty, and others who have been floated in the last week or so.


I've seen this guy speak and I really think he is a great american who would make a great canidate for the Republican party via the Tea Party.   Hell if he wanted to run as a democrat it wouldn't matter to me, i'd still vote for him.

Anyway check this guy out





He could definately kick the crap out of obama in 2012 unless he has some serious skeletons in the closet.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 6, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVo7495RKW4]YouTube - Herman Cain rallies tea party in Madison[/ame]

This guy is SOOOOOOO electable!


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 6, 2011)

And at least he is consistant over time!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WP5dYfBBzU]YouTube - Herman Cain versus Bill Clinton.mp4[/ame]


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## Two Thumbs (Apr 6, 2011)

A black conservative will be denounced as an Unlce Tom, publically denounced.

He has no chance of getting the nod for VP.

Shame, he's a good man.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 6, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


> A black conservative will be denounced as an Unlce Tom, publically denounced.
> 
> He has no chance of getting the nod for VP.
> 
> Shame, he's a good man.



Two thumbs check out this thread, you are VERY RIGHT!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...-then-why-did-they-do-this-3.html#post3413430  <----that is the post but the whole thread is short and interesting.


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## jillian (Apr 6, 2011)

so much wishful thinking... so little time.


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## The Infidel (Apr 6, 2011)

jillian said:


> so much wishful thinking... so little time.


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## The Infidel (Apr 6, 2011)

I'd vote for him... I like him!

Ive been watching him for some time now, and I cant think of much I dont like about him. Seems to be a good American and as viable a candidate as any. (better than most IMO)


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## Luissa (Apr 6, 2011)

No offense. I wouldn't vote for anyone involved in the tea party.


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## Stephanie (Apr 6, 2011)

I like Mr. Cain.

he needs more exposure for the people to see what he is about.


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## Cal (Apr 6, 2011)

Where are all the people questioning his non-existing experience in govt? There isn't a double standard here now, is there?..


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 6, 2011)

YoungLefty said:


> Where are all the people questioning his non-existing experience in govt? There isn't a double standard here now, is there?..



I questioned obama's lack of executive experience and thought that was a negative for Obama.  I thought Obama's lack of political experience to be a positive.

Herman Cain's Lack of political experience is a positive to me but Mr Cain also has many many years of executive experience behind him.   

Im pretty sure most people, who weren't super far right deranged, were questioning his lack of executive experience over his lack of political experience the majority of the time his experience was questioned.


So to answer your question, from where i'm typing, there is no double standard but the same standard applied equally.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 6, 2011)

Luissa said:


> No offense. I wouldn't vote for anyone involved in the tea party.



I suppose you think all blacks are criminals, all whites are racist, all americans are ignorant, all muslims hate jews, all jews are greedy, oh what other broadbrushing prejudicial things can I think of?  _ /sarcasm_


Thats my not so nice way of trying to snap you out of this disgusting type of statement you made.   It just reminds me of so many -isms, its offensive to see this coming from someone who claims to be open minded.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 6, 2011)

Stephanie said:


> I like Mr. Cain.
> 
> he needs more exposure for the people to see what he is about.



i'm trying


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## Luissa (Apr 6, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Luissa said:
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> > No offense. I wouldn't vote for anyone involved in the tea party.
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I don't agree with most of them, I have different political views, and I don't agree with their vision of America. It has nothing to do with broad brushing. 
You wouldn't vote for a communist because of their political views, how is this different?


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## The Infidel (Apr 6, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> YoungLefty said:
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> > Where are all the people questioning his non-existing experience in govt? There isn't a double standard here now, is there?..
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Herman has exponantially more experience than Obama ever dreamed of having. 

Lets see... a community organizor, and college "lecturer"

or 

A career like this:

The Pillsbury Company, Minneapolis, MN, *vice president*/corporate systems and services, 1977-82; Burger King Corporation, Philadelphia, PA, regional* vice president*, 1982-86; Godfather's Pizza Inc., Omaha, NE, *president*, 1986-88, *president/CEO*, 1988--.

Herman Cain has enjoyed a stellar career in the business world. 

Obama has enjoyed a stellar career as a business buster 

Herman Cain gets my vote HANDS DOWN!


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## beowolfe (Apr 19, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
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And exactly what businesses have Obama busted?  Since he was a community organizer, attorney, state senator, and US senator and didn't run a business prior to being elected POTUS, you must be insinuating that he caused the recession.  But that couldn't be true because the recession began before he became POTUS.  You can be pro-Cain all you want, but don't join the wingnuts by assigning something to Obama that can't possibly be.


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## beowolfe (Apr 19, 2011)

Cain has business experience.  Obama had governmental experience.  Is one better than the other when seeking the office of POTUS?  Bush had loads of business experience, but was a failure at governing in Texas and as POTUS.  His father, who did much better at governing, had a little business experience and a wealth of governmental experience.  Reagan, didn't have much of either.  Jimmy Carter had a governmental and business (farming) experience.

In our history, business men haven't always made the greatest presidents.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 19, 2011)

beowolfe said:


> Cain has business experience.  Obama had governmental experience.  Is one better than the other when seeking the office of POTUS?  Bush had loads of business experience, but was a failure at governing in Texas and as POTUS.  His father, who did much better at governing, had a little business experience and a wealth of governmental experience.  Reagan, didn't have much of either.  Jimmy Carter had a governmental and business (farming) experience.
> 
> In our history, business men haven't always made the greatest presidents.



His executive experience isn't why I support Herman Cain, someone brought it up to try and play "gotcha" with me, otherwise it wouldn't be discussed in here.

Someone asked me my opinion of Trump vs my opinion of Cain and this is what I said 

" think trump is a total fake and a joker. I don't think he shares my values at all. 

I think cain is sincere and legitimately holds the values he claims and feel that I can trust him to make his decisions based off these values. His values and mine line up more closely than anyone else i've seen talk about running so I will support him until I find out something that I just can't abide.

He did make some comments about never hiring a muslim that I dont like but I know you can't find a canidate that is 100% in line with what I personally would want. He is the best of the field IMO.

If you want more details about my thoughts feel free to ask!"


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## strollingbones (Apr 19, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Luissa said:
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> > No offense. I wouldn't vote for anyone involved in the tea party.
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i was open minded about the tea party till i went to a tea party rally ....not for me...they play on very base emotions


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 19, 2011)

strollingbones said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
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yes wanting washington DC to adhere to a budget that is within their means like I have to in my personal life is a crazy base emotion .

Then again my tea party rallies are in cambridge, MA the most liberal of liberal places in my state so our teapartiers may be different than yours.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 25, 2011)

jillian said:


> so much wishful thinking... so little time.



well 3 weeks later FOX news actually blipped him on their radar.  A small ray of hope.


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## Zona (Apr 25, 2011)

cartoon characters and their rubes.

Donald freaking trump is leading in the poles on that side.  DONALD TRUMP. 

You guys might as well just not even run in 2012.  So far you got nothin.  

I GUARANTEE YOU OBAMA WILL WIN IN 2012.  Anyone from the right man enough to doubt me?  If so, who will beat him?

Oh and to address this thread.....I have a feeling there are a lot ..and I mean a lot of tea baggers and republicans who would never, even under the threat of a gun, vote for this guy.   And it has nothing to do with his policies either.  Nothing.


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## Zona (Apr 25, 2011)

The Infidel said:


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He is a business man.  





Ok.  Should the ceo of tampax run as well?


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 28, 2011)

Zona said:


> The Infidel said:
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if her/his values, track record over time, and public statements are similar to Herman Cain's then yes.

If her/his values, track record, and public statements are similar to donald trump or Barack Obama then no.


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## ogibillm (Apr 28, 2011)

listen to him speak for five minutes.

he's unelectable.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 28, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> listen to him speak for five minutes.
> 
> he's unelectable.



You have to give me more than that...i've listened to hours of him and find him electable.

So Im going to ask  Why is he unelectable after 5 min?


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## ogibillm (Apr 28, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> ogibillm said:
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speech patterns mainly. he's hard on the ears. the masses would never find someone that speaks in such a manner electable - at least not to the presidency.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 28, 2011)

ogibillm said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
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I understand that.

its like trying to listen to sara palin or hillary clinton give a speech....both are just too shrill in their voices to want to have as a president


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## Avatar4321 (Apr 28, 2011)

I think he is definitely an interesting candidate to look at. But I don't think anyone is going to be paying attention till alittle closer to Christmas.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 29, 2011)

Avatar4321 said:


> I think he is definitely an interesting candidate to look at. But I don't think anyone is going to be paying attention till alittle closer to Christmas.



He seems to actually be getting more buzz.

I keep calling in the local radio shows about him, this morning one of them actually did a short segment!

Squeeky wheel, lol.


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## peach174 (Apr 29, 2011)

I have stated many times here that I like Herman Cain.
I like his policy of a sales tax and to do away with the IRS.
I think he would make a great President.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Apr 29, 2011)

peach174 said:


> I have stated many times here that I like Herman Cain.
> I like his policy of a sales tax and to do away with the IRS.
> I think he would make a great President.





Me too, now to just get him out there


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (May 6, 2011)

So any change in opinion after last nights debate?

People seemed to like him, check out this summary by conservative viewers

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lt_28Sf-dk]YouTube - Herman Cain Is BIG WINNER at South Carolina GOP Debate[/ame]


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## peach174 (May 6, 2011)

Yes a lot of people like Herman Cain.
The left can't seem to take it that white America likes him.
They already are starting up with the bashing.
He has more experience then President Obama.
Two things are going for him.
Business and Military


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (May 6, 2011)

peach174 said:


> Yes a lot of people like Herman Cain.
> The left can't seem to take it that white America likes him.
> They already are starting up with the bashing.
> He has more experience then President Obama.
> ...



I loved how those people in the focus group, who didn't really know of him before the debate, stood tall and defended him when they were pushed.  That was only after a few short segments of hearing him in a 1.5 hour debate.

I like the guy (obviously, lol).


It might not be a victory ticket but if I could have Cain/Paul 2012 i would be happy.


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## jillian (May 6, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Luissa said:
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> > No offense. I wouldn't vote for anyone involved in the tea party.
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what on earth does what she said have to do with race?

tea party people don't represent mainstream america. they certainly don't represent democrats, though they may pick up the stray independent.

i wouldn't vote for anyone from the communist party or nazi party either.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (May 6, 2011)

jillian said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
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Ummm....does anyone understand why I highlighted those 2 statements in red?

You just answered your own question with your "comparison" of the tea party to the communist and nazi parties which were bigoted, nationalistic, and racist.


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## peach174 (May 6, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


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You forgot Socialists, Nazi's were socialists, the left has a problem with this.
They don't get it that the left are socialists not the right.
Good example of socialism-
Nazi's had the people turn their neighbors in for not going along with the program, being Jews,Gay's or Handi capped,anti Nazi.
What is happing now with us- neighbors turning in neighbors because their children do not have permits to sell cookies or lemonade. There are more types of this I just can't think of them right now (need more coffee).
Yes they are not rounding them up and putting them into camps and killing them but it is the same concept turn your neighbor in because they are not following along with the program. 
Big difference - the right wants freedom, the left wants control.


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## jillian (May 6, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


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1. neither of us said anything about race. YOU are imposing a racial meaning where none exists... or at least you've claimed that the tea parties aren't motivated by a racial undercurrent (though i happen to think they are).

2. the point of mentioning those two extreme ideologies wasn't a racial one... communism wasn't a racial issue at all.... it was to point out that sometimes an ideology is so onerous (as i feel the tea party people's beliefs are) that one simply wouldn't look at a candidate who espoused them.


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## jillian (May 6, 2011)

peach174 said:


> Yes a lot of people like Herman Cain.
> The left can't seem to take it that white America likes him.
> They already are starting up with the bashing.
> He has more experience then President Obama.
> ...



why would it surprise anyone that, once again, rightwingnuts like someone who supports their own ideology ... we know how you love clarence thomas, even though he's unfit for the bench.


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## R.D. (May 6, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


> A black conservative will be denounced as an Unlce Tom, publically denounced.
> 
> He has no chance of getting the nod for VP.
> 
> Shame, he's a good man.



Those calls will be from idiot liberals, not conservatives.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (May 6, 2011)

jillian said:


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Nazi's were racist against the jewish people.  Its implied in the term Nazi.

communism was bigoted and nationalistic.

It seems the "common conservative" really liked herman cain a lot last night


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz1bj2q6hbs]YouTube - Herman Cain Wins the South Carolina GOP/ FOX News Presidential Debate[/ame]


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## peach174 (May 6, 2011)

jillian said:


> peach174 said:
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> > Yes a lot of people like Herman Cain.
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Let me get this straight,rightwings like someone who supports their ideology,then what do leftwingers do? I thought they liked someone also who supports their ideology too.
Isn't they why your vote? To elect someone who fits closet your ideology?
And Judge Thomas rules by the interpretation of the Constitution while many others rule by ideology.
I have never made a statement about Clarence Thomas on this board before , until just now, so how do your know whether love him or not?
I don't love him, I don't know him, but I think all of the Supreme Court should rule by the Constitution and not ideology.


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## R.D. (May 6, 2011)

jillian said:


> why would it surprise anyone that, once again, rightwingnuts like someone who supports their own ideology ...


Ya think?



> we know how you love clarence thomas, even though he's unfit for the bench.



Isn't it so cool that when a liberal says things like that it's _not_ racist?


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## 1947bubba (May 20, 2011)

i am a very right winged conserative, i have watch Mr. Cain a number of times, I really like him, by theway, i am very white also


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (May 24, 2011)

he is picking up more support...im excited


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Sep 26, 2011)

jillian said:


> so much wishful thinking... so little time.




He is polling pretty good right now jillian.

Then again the primaries are a ways away.


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## The T (Sep 26, 2011)

*YES* It's time for the Republican Party elites to stop co-opting the Conservative mantle and accept Mr. Cain. He is a serious candidate. High time they recognized him and the support he is getting.

The day of the RINO is endangered.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Sep 27, 2011)

The T said:


> *YES* It's time for the Republican Party elites to stop co-opting the Conservative mantle and accept Mr. Cain. He is a serious candidate. High time they recognized him and the support he is getting.
> 
> The day of the RINO is endangered.



Dennis Miller is doing a fundraiser for Cain, he agrees with us.   

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAnkj9aL4O4]Dennis Miller - The Big Speech - YouTube[/ame]


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 27, 2011)

Viable?  Probaby not.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Sep 29, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Viable?  Probaby not.



ITs sad the media and most of the GOP Elite feel the same way you do but he would probably be the best president for ALL americans out of the field right now.


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## Ropey (Sep 29, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> *Nazi's were racist against the jewish people.  Its implied in the term Nazi.*
> 
> communism was bigoted and nationalistic.



Not if you pretend that it wasn't.  That's their quandary.  

It's like pretending a bully isn't a bully because one likes some of the effects of that bully.

*Pretending = Pretension = A State of Pretentiousness = Liberal Mindset*


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 4, 2011)

Ropey said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
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There seems to be more pretending in the realm of those who don't like Herman Cain and their responses to this latest scandal.



Oh and is he viable people?  I think so


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## The Infidel (Nov 4, 2011)

Give these a listen 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTCZxWiynEM]Herman Cain Sets The Record Straight On The Sean Hannity Show - 11/03/11 (Part 1) - YouTube[/ame]



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ToL_6N5Ws&feature=related]Herman Cain Sets The Record Straight On The Sean Hannity Show - 11/03/11 (Part 2) - YouTube[/ame]

*regarding Perry accusation:*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9B-uIiqHXY&feature=related]Herman Cain Sets The Record Straight On The Sean Hannity Show - 11/03/11 (Part 3) - YouTube[/ame]


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 4, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


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I agree, Plymco, that many GOP don't want Cain because he is black.  I don't doubt that for a second.  We have seen the silliness for more than two years here on Obama and race.

However, I think Cain is finished.  He has handled badly the accusations of sexual harassment.  He has no experience in serious elected office, and that was an issue with a short-term senator, and it is a major one for Cain.  And (my opinion only) I don't think he wants the job.  He wants the bucks that Huckabee and Palin are getting for being a "wannabee" at one time.


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## The Infidel (Nov 4, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> I agree, Plymco, that many GOP don't want Cain because he is black.  I don't doubt that for a second.  We have seen the silliness for more than two years here on Obama and race.
> *
> However, I think Cain is finished.  He has handled badly the accusations of sexual harassment*.  He has no experience in serious elected office, and that was an issue with a short-term senator, and it is a major one for Cain.  And (my opinion only) I don't think he wants the job.  He wants the bucks that Huckabee and Palin are getting for being a "wannabee" at one time.



What SHOULD he have done?


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 4, 2011)

He should not have ab libbed, as apparently he did from the beginning.  He did not remember or did not know certain things, then they became evident.  People logically expect him to have known such things in the beginning.

In other words, if not sure, say nothing until one knows what one is talking about.

He failed.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 4, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
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I am more inclined to think he will come through this than him being finished from it...however that doesn't mean i'm 100% confident this wont hurt him bad enough to push him out.

However, your claims of GOP not liking obama because he is black are bogus.  There are a small minority in both partys who take issue with others based on race but by no means are a signifigant number of democrats or republicans racist as your post appears to claim.

Cain, at the moment, has way more executive experience than Obama did when obama was running for office, thats a non-starter for me as I dont agree.   Almost all the republican canidates have more experience than obama did when he won.  


We will see what happens over the next few weeks....and this is the original Cain for president thread, we should have a mega-merge


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 4, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


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One, you are flat wrong about many Republicans having racial issues with Obama.  I live in the South, I travel in the South, and I have listened carefully for three years.  Yes, it is a serious issue, you are in serious denial about it.

Two, if you think being head of the National Restaurant Association and Godfather's Pizza ranks with three years as POTUS, then, although my admiration of you personally does not tarnish, your comparision is silly.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 4, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


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Well the teapartiers and republicans I have met are not like that, maybe its regional so as far as my experience goes you are wrong but like i said we live in different places.

On the second part re-read what I typed......see what I said one more time underlined.......


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## The Infidel (Nov 4, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> He should not have ab libbed, as apparently he did from the beginning.  He did not remember or did not know certain things, then they became evident.  People logically expect him to have known such things in the beginning.
> 
> In other words, if not sure, say nothing until one knows what one is talking about.
> 
> He failed.



Then everybody would've said he was avoiding the issue... How about blaming Politico for running with a story that they had NO facts on?


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## The Infidel (Nov 4, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Two, if you think being head of the National Restaurant Association and Godfather's Pizza ranks with three years as POTUS, then, although my admiration of you personally does not tarnish, your comparision is silly.



We all see what a community organizer has done as POTUS 


I doubt a man with Hermans experience as an EXECUTIVE can do any worse.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> JakeStarkey said:
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> > Two, if you think being head of the National Restaurant Association and Godfather's Pizza ranks with three years as POTUS, then, although my admiration of you personally does not tarnish, your comparision is silly.
> ...



Cain is doing a debate on C-Span tonight at 7pm vs newt gingrich!


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## Amelia (Nov 5, 2011)

Interesting record of the arc of Cain's candidacy.

Sad if he flames out in the end but interesting nevertheless.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 5, 2011)

Amelia said:


> Interesting record of the arc of Cain's candidacy.
> 
> Sad if he flames out in the end but interesting nevertheless.



Have you seen anyone put it on a chart or graph?   If you have i'd love to see what it looks like just out of curiousity's sake.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 6, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> JakeStarkey said:
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> ...



He cannot even manage his own campaign effectively.  He is done.  Newt made him look stupid last night.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


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I watched the whole debate and didn't think Newt made him look stupid, in fact I think Newt helped him out if anything.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 7, 2011)

We will agree to disagree, agreeably, I hope.  Newt is slowly coming up the chart again.  Who would have thought that could happen.  Of course, I can remember when McCain seemed dead in the water and floundering before taking the nomination last time.


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## Caroljo (Nov 7, 2011)

Luissa said:


> No offense. I wouldn't vote for anyone involved in the tea party.



Ok...still Party over Country.   I see.................


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## Caroljo (Nov 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


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I'd love to see either one of them in a debate with obama!!! Lol!
I would also love to see them both as President and Vice President!


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> We will agree to disagree, agreeably, I hope.  Newt is slowly coming up the chart again.  Who would have thought that could happen.  Of course, I can remember when McCain seemed dead in the water and floundering before taking the nomination last time.



I remember that too.  I think i've told you I like newt a lot, I actually wanted him to run in 2008.  I do understand his baggage but I don't think that baggage is really something to worry about as there are plenty of "baggage" items for the president from the last 3 years too.   

I think the people would rather see the president and a challenger debating our economic future than their bad past decisions.


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## Dragon (Nov 7, 2011)

Anyone involved in the Tea Party should (but probably won't) follow this rule about presidential candidates: the more you like him, the less chance he has to win.

That's because the Tea Party's agenda, while it has the fervent support of the 20-25% of the people who do support it, has the active and full-throated opposition of everyone else. Tea Party candidates can win local elections in some districts, but not statewide ones, let alone a national election. Note that even in 2010, with a large percentage of the leftist insurgency sitting the election out, Tea Party-backed candidates won NO statewide contests, and lost the GOP three Senate seats (Delaware, Colorado, and Nevada) that Republicans would otherwise have won.

If Herman Cain wins the Republican nomination, that guarantees Barack Obama's reelection.


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## Ravi (Nov 7, 2011)

*Could Tea Party Canidate Herman Cain Be Viable?*

I don't think so....it looks more and more as if his campaign will be aborted.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

Dragon said:


> Anyone involved in the Tea Party should (but probably won't) follow this rule about presidential candidates: the more you like him, the less chance he has to win.
> 
> That's because the Tea Party's agenda, while it has the fervent support of the 20-25% of the people who do support it, has the active and full-throated opposition of everyone else. Tea Party candidates can win local elections in some districts, but not statewide ones, let alone a national election. Note that even in 2010, with a large percentage of the leftist insurgency sitting the election out, Tea Party-backed candidates won NO statewide contests, and lost the GOP three Senate seats (Delaware, Colorado, and Nevada) that Republicans would otherwise have won.
> 
> If Herman Cain wins the Republican nomination, that guarantees Barack Obama's reelection.



Well Herman Cain, no matter how much Michelle Bachman wants to believe otherwise, is the Tea Party canidate.    This means that no matter what the main stream media, who has thouroughly lied about the tea party, says the teapartiers aren't going to believe it.

That is the very reason this scandal hasn't hurt Cain's support in the polls.....yet.


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## Ravi (Nov 7, 2011)

Ed Rollins, the longtime Republican operative and former Michele Bachmann campaign manager, told POLITICO that Cains moment in the sun was already over: This guy knows nothing about foreign policy, 9-9-9 has been ripped apart, the girl problem is not going away and his beating up the media shows a thin skin that will get him in trouble. You combine that with no real campaign and his days are limited.

My only advice for Cain is to get it all out now and apologize to the women for insulting them, said Rollins.

Foes count on Herman Cain to self-destruct - Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com


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## Dragon (Nov 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Well Herman Cain, no matter how much Michelle Bachman wants to believe otherwise, is the Tea Party canidate.    This means that no matter what the main stream media, who has thouroughly lied about the tea party, says the teapartiers aren't going to believe it.
> 
> That is the very reason this scandal hasn't hurt Cain's support in the polls.....yet.



I'm not denying that Cain is "the" (or at least "a") Tea Party candidate. What I am saying is that this means he has no chance to win the general election. His approval numbers are much worse than Obama's (for the general electorate, not for Republicans). He advocates measures that have no chance at all of gaining majority approval, and will seriously hurt him in the general election. A year before the election, a challenger shows better in the polls than he will on election day, because the incumbent isn't campaigning yet and has to deal realistically with policy decisions. Any challenger that polls show losing to the incumbent this early will lose on election day. If the challenger shows as winning a close one with the incumbent this early, chances are he will still lose. All of this barring some unforeseen disaster befalling the incumbent, of course.

As I just noted in the post you quoted, in 2010 -- a uniquely favorable year for both the Tea Party and the GOP -- Tea Party candidates won ZERO statewide races and lost three, three races with weak Democratic candidates that a more mainstream Republican would have won easily. The presidential election is essentially 48 statewide elections, one mayoral race (DC), and five House races (from the two states that separate their electoral votes). If Tea Party candidates cannot win statewide races, neither can they win the White House.

Cain may still be able to win the Republican nomination, but if he does, that guarantees Obama's reelection.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

Dragon said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Well Herman Cain, no matter how much Michelle Bachman wants to believe otherwise, is the Tea Party canidate.    This means that no matter what the main stream media, who has thouroughly lied about the tea party, says the teapartiers aren't going to believe it.
> ...



Cain @ 56% approval

Obama @ 50% approval

Cain has higher approval than obama as of the latest polling for both.


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## kwc57 (Nov 7, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



What planet do you live on?


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

kwc57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



He was just being a wise-ass which is why I didn't point it out directly in my response to him earlier


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## kwc57 (Nov 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



Don't confuse dragon with real facts.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 7, 2011)

kwc57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



The planet reality while you reside on delusion moon.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> ...



Look at em all, please.

RealClearPolitics - Latest Election Polls


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Dragon said:
> ...



I did and your link backs up what I just said that Cain has a 6% higher approval rating than obama.

Maybe next week it will be different but right now Dragon's claim of Obama having a higher approval rating than Cain, in polling, is not correct.


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## Dragon (Nov 7, 2011)

PP, your link shows Cain with a 32% approval rating. "Among all registered voters, Cain's favorability declined 5 percentage points, to 32 percent from 37 percent." The 57% figure is for Republican voters.


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## kwc57 (Nov 7, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Jake, why do you keep this charade up about being a conservative?  You remind me of a gay guy I worked with back in the early 90's.  He had violet colored contacts, literally swished when he walked and wore leopard skin shirts and believed he was passing himself off as straight.  When he finally came out to a girl in the office, he was shocked when she told him that everyone in the company knew.  True story.  You're only fooling yourself.  Time to come out of the closet.  You'll feel better.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

Dragon said:


> Anyone involved in the Tea Party should (but probably won't) follow this rule about presidential candidates: the more you like him, the less chance he has to win.
> 
> That's because the Tea Party's agenda, while it has the fervent support of the 20-25% of the people who do support it, has the active and full-throated opposition of everyone else. Tea Party candidates can win local elections in some districts, but not statewide ones, let alone a national election. Note that even in 2010, with a large percentage of the leftist insurgency sitting the election out, Tea Party-backed candidates won NO statewide contests, and lost the GOP three Senate seats (Delaware, Colorado, and Nevada) that Republicans would otherwise have won.
> 
> If Herman Cain wins the Republican nomination, that guarantees Barack Obama's reelection.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

Dragon said:


> PP, your link shows Cain with a 32% approval rating. "Among all registered voters, Cain's favorability declined 5 percentage points, to 32 percent from 37 percent." The 57% figure is for Republican voters.



Correct.


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## Dragon (Nov 7, 2011)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > PP, your link shows Cain with a 32% approval rating. "Among all registered voters, Cain's favorability declined 5 percentage points, to 32 percent from 37 percent." The 57% figure is for Republican voters.
> ...



Well, 32% is quite a bit below Obama's approval rating. As for the GOP figure, I don't think Obama is going to seek the Republican nomination, so that's not a valid basis for comparison. It does perhaps strengthen a claim that Cain can win the nomination, but I haven't denied that.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 7, 2011)

kwc57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > kwc57 said:
> ...



I have been the same ever since the Gerald Ford days, and Ford was a great man and tried to be a good president.  He was far closer to RR's principles than you ever could  hope to be.

The far hard righties are not tradtional Republicans, and after this election the party will configure to exclude them, or go into a permanent exclipse.

Remember, you are not even a RR pub, just a far righty strangeoid.


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## kwc57 (Nov 7, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> kwc57 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I'm a libertarian.

You might be a centrist, but you aren't a conservative.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 7, 2011)

kwc57 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > kwc57 said:
> ...



Most liberals confuse libertarians with being far right because of the staunch constitutional positions on things like taxes, govt spending, and entitlement programs.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 7, 2011)

Libertarians try to pretend they are not far right reactionaries, but that's a zebra painting himself brown: still a zebra, still a far right reactionary.

Neither kwc57 nor Plymco are conservatives at all, which is my point.  They don't belong philosophically in the GOP, but we happily take their $$$ and their votes but don't give them a place at the policy making table.


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## kwc57 (Nov 8, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Libertarians try to pretend they are not far right reactionaries, but that's a zebra painting himself brown: still a zebra, still a far right reactionary.
> 
> Neither kwc57 nor Plymco are conservatives at all, which is my point.  They don't belong philosophically in the GOP, but we happily take their $$$ and their votes but don't give them a place at the policy making table.



Really?  So a Ron Paul or a Gary Johnson are far right reactionaries?  You might want to discuss that withthe far right reactionaries that reject Paul and Gary.  It'll be news to them.  Expecting the government to follow the constitution isn't far right reaction.  So you just keep telling yourself whatever you want in your alternate reality, the rest of us will attempt not to point and laugh too much.


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## Dragon (Nov 8, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Libertarians try to pretend they are not far right reactionaries, but that's a zebra painting himself brown: still a zebra, still a far right reactionary.



I disagree with this. Libertarians aren't far-right reactionaries, they are confused liberals. That is: their core values are those of liberals, but they make the mistake of thinking that government is the only danger to liberty. Where government IS the primary danger to liberty (e.g., war on drugs, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, detention without due process) they tend to take liberal positions. Where it's NOT (e.g. regulations on corporate malfeasance) they take conservative positions, but not because they believe in conservative values. It's because, taking ideologically fixed statements over empirical observation and common sense, they think these conservative policies will achieve liberal ends.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 8, 2011)

You mistake the progressive impulse as being implicity leftist.  It is not, rather classically liberal.  Progressivism has both left and right leaning wings, using politics to reform society.  You discuss well, and I appreciate that.


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## Dragon (Nov 8, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> You mistake the progressive impulse as being implicity leftist.  It is not, rather classically liberal.  Progressivism has both left and right leaning wings, using politics to reform society.  You discuss well, and I appreciate that.



Progressivism is implicitly leftist. You are, as a number of conservatives here have pointed out, redefining conservatism to include progressive ideas. What you are saying is true about the Republican Party in its history, but not about conservatism; the reason why you are right about the GOP is because the GOP has not always been conservative.

No one would reasonably call Theodore Roosevelt a conservative, for example.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Nov 8, 2011)

JakeStarkey said:


> Libertarians try to pretend they are not far right reactionaries, but that's a zebra painting himself brown: still a zebra, still a far right reactionary.
> 
> Neither kwc57 nor Plymco are conservatives at all, which is my point.  They don't belong philosophically in the GOP, but we happily take their $$$ and their votes but don't give them a place at the policy making table.



Yeah because not wanting to impose conservative social on everyone through legislation is SOOOOOOOOO far right reactionary  

Jake you're crazy sometimes but its


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