# My Wife's Grandparents Were Hiroshima Survivors



## Mad Scientist

Mr. Seikitchi Uehara and Mrs. Matsu Uehara shown here with my wife at the nursing home in Okinawa where Grandma spent her last days as the effects of Dementia set in.







Grandpa was an Engineer who was, believe it or not, too small to serve in The Emperors Army so put his Engineer degree to work designing Aircraft for the Army. He said he helped design a few Kamikaze planes but wouldn't ever elaborate and even though I'm an Airplane Nut, I never pushed the subject. He did say, and I agreed, that it was the F6F Hellcat that turned the tide of the War in the Pacific.






He and his wife were in Hiroshima to attend a work related meeting of sorts. As fate would have it, on August 6th he wasn't feeling so good so he decided to take the day off and stay in their small apartment on the outskirts of Hiroshima. 

That morning Grandma saw the B-29 fly over and witnessed the ensuing mushroom cloud. The next day Grandpa walked into the city and witnessed the devastation first hand. He said it was "Hell on Earth".

He never complained about anything that happened during the war or the nuclear bombs. He just said "It *had* to happen. Japan was *never* going to give up".

Both He and his Wife were designated Living National Treasures by the Gov't of Japan and were interviewed numerous times by various agencies and publications over the years. They both lived into their 90's in spite of the radiation effects of the bombing.

Here we are in the house that he built in Okinawa using Japanese Joinery Techniques where not as single nail was used!


----------



## Warrior102

Nice.
I loved living in Japan. 
Taught English there part-time. One of my student, an older gentleman, was a fire-bomb survivor (Nagasaki) and he told me stories he remembered about American bombings way back when.


----------



## whitehall

It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.


----------



## Douger

" Had to happen".
He was right. They allowed idiots to run the show.
So did Germany.
Some day murkins will say the same thing once their empire gets put in it's place.


----------



## Truthmatters

Handsome family there OP.

what interesting history your family has


----------



## MikeK

I recently posted a message concerning how persistent and potent the anti-Japanese propaganda was during WW-II.  I should mention that I was no less affected by that propaganda than was any other American and the residual effect of it lingered with me well into the 1950s.  And I was not alone in that effect.

I'm recalling a conversation with a buck sergeant on the ship going to Japan in 1957.  That sergeant had done one tour in Japan and had recenly re-enlisted specifically to return there.  During that conversation he seemed to detect some residual hostility toward the Japanese, especially from one fellow whose father had been killed on Tinian, and he spent some time assuring us that it wouldn't be long before our feelings toward the Japanese people would change once we were exposed to them and got to know them.  And he was right.

I was stationed at a base called South Camp Fuji, which was situated at the base of Mount Fuji, a very beautiful, peaceful place.  I clearly remember on my first day of liberty how taken I was with the Japanese children walking in well-behaved groups in their school uniforms, how they would nod politely when they saw I was looking at them as we passed.  I later observed them to be generally well-mannered and very bright -- obviously very well raised by caring and intelligent parents.  

The subliminal orientation I'd acquired from War-years propaganda quickly fell away.  I quickly came to like and respect the Japanese people whom I found to be very pleasant, hospitable, clean, honorable, and generally decent human beings.  And I came to deeply regret the need to use those two bombs.  

After six months the entire 3rd Division was moved from Japan to Okinawa, which was similar but not quite the same as Japan.  When my 18 month tour ended and I stood on the dock at Naha waiting to board the homebound ship I recall being torn between eagerness to get home and a compelling wave of sadness that I was leaving that place.  And when the ship sailed that evening I noticed I wasn't the only one who was contemplatively quiet.  

For a few days I searched around the ship looking for the buck sergeant who spoke with us on the inbound trip.  I wanted to tell him how clearly I understood what he tried to tell us and how right he was.

While I can't speak for today I can tell you that Sayonara was a very sad word back in the fifties.


----------



## MikeK

Truthmatters said:


> Handsome family there OP.
> 
> what interesting history your family has


Ditto.


----------



## bobcollum

That really is a great story, and great to see they were able to live long lives despite being affected by the bomb. 

Also, you have a lovely wife, congratulations. 

Ever heard the stories about the people that managed to see both bombs go off? There are a few...

Hiroshima 60 years on: 'I saw both of the bombs and lived' | World news | The Observer


----------



## Mad Scientist

Bump!


----------



## Ravi

I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Ravi said:


> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.


My oldest son was surprised to learn of the Rape of Nanking:

"Dad, did this really happen? Are these *real* pictures?".


----------



## Ravi

Mad Scientist said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.
> 
> 
> 
> My oldest son was surprised to learn of the Rape of Nanking:
> 
> "Dad, did this really happen? Are these *real* pictures?".
Click to expand...

I'm glad that Americans don't gloss over the bad things that we've done. Pretty shameful to do so, imo.


----------



## mal

Ravi said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.
> 
> 
> 
> My oldest son was surprised to learn of the Rape of Nanking:
> 
> "Dad, did this really happen? Are these *real* pictures?".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad that Americans don't gloss over the bad things that we've done. Pretty shameful to do so, imo.
Click to expand...


What comparible thing have we done in an official manner as Nanking or what the Nazis or Stalin did that we would even have to gloss over?... 



peace...


----------



## mal

Mad Scientist said:


> He never complained about anything that happened during the war or the nuclear bombs. He just said "It *had* to happen. Japan was *never* going to give up".



And he was spot on with that Conclusion. 



peace...


----------



## NLT

Ravi said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.
> 
> 
> 
> My oldest son was surprised to learn of the Rape of Nanking:
> 
> "Dad, did this really happen? Are these *real* pictures?".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad that Americans don't gloss over the bad things that we've done. Pretty shameful to do so, imo.
Click to expand...


I dont remember the US being involved in the Rape of Nanking. 

Hiroshima and Nagaski were totally legit, unless you think invading Japan and losing more American lives were OK. Remember Japan attacked the US. My family lost two members in the Pacific.


----------



## Ravi

NLT said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> My oldest son was surprised to learn of the Rape of Nanking:
> 
> "Dad, did this really happen? Are these *real* pictures?".
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad that Americans don't gloss over the bad things that we've done. Pretty shameful to do so, imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I dont remember the US being involved in the Rape of Nanking.
> 
> Hiroshima and Nagaski were totally legit, unless you think invading Japan and losing more American lives were OK. Remember Japan attacked the US. My family lost two members in the Pacific.
Click to expand...

Read for comprehension, yo.


----------



## gipper

whitehall said:


> It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.



Really now?

The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed.  A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children.  As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur.  But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).

It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war.  The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.


----------



## Big Black Dog

My Wife's Grandparents Were Hiroshima Survivors

Wonder if they flinched when they heard a loud noise?


----------



## bendog

mal said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> My oldest son was surprised to learn of the Rape of Nanking:
> 
> "Dad, did this really happen? Are these *real* pictures?".
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad that Americans don't gloss over the bad things that we've done. Pretty shameful to do so, imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What comparible thing have we done in an official manner as Nanking or what the Nazis or Stalin did that we would even have to gloss over?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...


Well, our treatment of native Americans isn't something to be proud of.


----------



## bendog

whitehall said:


> It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.



I apologize before hand for this, but the gods of the absurd require me to post this.

DIDN'T YOU SEE THE MOVIE WOLVERINE!!??

The joy of history via commercial speech.


----------



## MikeK

NLT said:


> Hiroshima and Nagaski were totally legit, unless you think invading Japan and losing more American lives were OK. Remember Japan attacked the US. My family lost two members in the Pacific.


Eliminating the need for further invasion is a convenient justification for those bombs.  But those who recall the War years know the most popular motivation for Hiroshima and Nagasaki was revenge for Pearl Harbor and for the long, tormenting years of the Pacific Campaign.


----------



## regent

As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the  the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history?  What would posters be writing about Truman today?


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the  the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history?  What would posters be writing about Truman today?



Wrong.  The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.

Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.

If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland.  That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified.  Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie. 

You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.


----------



## regent

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the  the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history?  What would posters be writing about Truman today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.
> 
> Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.
> 
> If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland.  That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified.  Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie.
> 
> You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.
Click to expand...


The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins.  Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.    
But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over. 
If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the  the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history?  What would posters be writing about Truman today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.
> 
> Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.
> 
> If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland.  That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified.  Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie.
> 
> You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins.  Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.
> But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over.
> If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?
Click to expand...


Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.  

The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.  

At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes.  They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."

IRONIC THING: 
After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?


----------



## regent

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.
> 
> Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.
> 
> If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland.  That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified.  Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie.
> 
> You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins.  Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.
> But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over.
> If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.
> 
> The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.
> 
> At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes.  They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."
> 
> IRONIC THING:
> After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?
Click to expand...


Assuming your figures are correct: 
If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept  60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins.  Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.
> But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over.
> If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.
> 
> The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.
> 
> At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes.  They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."
> 
> IRONIC THING:
> After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Assuming your figures are correct:
> If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept  60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?
Click to expand...


Oh brother...you will never learn.

All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it.  Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.  

You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives.  I do not.


----------



## regent

How long did the war last after Hirohito told his leaders to surrender?


----------



## whitehall

gipper said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really now?
> 
> The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed.  A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children.  As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
> 
> Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur.  But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).
> 
> It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war.  The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.
Click to expand...


It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.


----------



## regent

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.
> 
> The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.
> 
> At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes.  They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."
> 
> IRONIC THING:
> After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming your figures are correct:
> If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept  60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh brother...you will never learn.
> 
> All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it.  Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.
> 
> You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives.  I do not.
Click to expand...


So  which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?


----------



## whitehall

regent said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming your figures are correct:
> If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept  60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother...you will never learn.
> 
> All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it.  Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.
> 
> You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives.  I do not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So  which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?
Click to expand...


Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.


----------



## gipper

whitehall said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really now?
> 
> The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed.  A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children.  As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
> 
> Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur.  But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).
> 
> It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war.  The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.
Click to expand...


Not accurate.  Many generals including Ike and MacArthur told Truman not to drop the bombs.  Others in his administration voiced negative opinions...knowing full well Japan was defenseless.  Truman was solely responsible for the war crime.

Truman dropped them because he wanted to control Stalin and show the world our power.  But also, he was a terrible racist who hated the Japanese...thinking them less than human.  Most ironic considering he claimed to be a devout Christian.


----------



## regent

whitehall said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother...you will never learn.
> 
> All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it.  Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.
> 
> You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives.  I do not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So  which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.
Click to expand...


Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.   
A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So  which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
> A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.
Click to expand...



That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war. 



And it's "_sake_," you dope.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
> A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.
> 
> 
> 
> And it's "_sake_," you dope.
Click to expand...


The Japanese could have ended the war any time. In fact, when the Japanese did decide to end the war, it was over. That simple. 
Where the tired starving old women and prepubescent children came from beats me.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Unkotare said:


> And it's "_sake_," you dope.


Most people don't know how it's really pronounced, nor do they care. Just like Karaoke isn't pronounced "Carry Oh Kee" and Harakiri isn't pronounced "Harry Carry" either.

Give it a rest.


----------



## Unkotare

Mad Scientist said:


> Give it a rest.





Why?


----------



## gipper

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
> A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.
> 
> 
> 
> And it's "_sake_," you dope.
Click to expand...


Well said.

For Americans to believe the BIG LIE that 500,000 American troops would have died had we invaded Japan, they must be able to believe the most absurd absurdities.

Of course the Japanese were a tired and wary nation. Their young men were mostly dead by August '45.  Their cities in ruin.  Thousands of civilians murdered from the air....and yet, they were going to fight the world's greatest military to the last woman and child...with pitch forks.  

How does one believe such tripe?


----------



## Unkotare

gipper said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
> A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.
> 
> 
> 
> And it's "_sake_," you dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well said.
> 
> For Americans to believe the BIG LIE that 500,000 American troops would have died had we invaded Japan, they must be able to believe the most absurd absurdities.
> 
> Of course the Japanese were a tired and wary nation. Their young men were mostly dead by August '45.  Their cities in ruin.  Thousands of civilians murdered from the air....and yet, they were going to fight the world's greatest military to the last woman and child...with pitch forks.
> 
> How does one believe such tripe?
Click to expand...



It seems a most fervently held 'belief' by those who feel they have to justify Truman's decision but cannot reconcile the moral component of it. It's similar to the cognitive dissonance of pro-abortionists who try to quiet their conscience by telling themselves the issue doesn't involve human life. People will go to great lengths to justify what they think they 'must' believe.


----------



## gipper

Unkotare said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.
> 
> 
> 
> And it's "_sake_," you dope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well said.
> 
> For Americans to believe the BIG LIE that 500,000 American troops would have died had we invaded Japan, they must be able to believe the most absurd absurdities.
> 
> Of course the Japanese were a tired and wary nation. Their young men were mostly dead by August '45.  Their cities in ruin.  Thousands of civilians murdered from the air....and yet, they were going to fight the world's greatest military to the last woman and child...with pitch forks.
> 
> How does one believe such tripe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It seems a most fervently held 'belief' by those who feel they have to justify Truman's decision but cannot reconcile the moral component of it. It's similar to the cognitive dissonance of pro-abortionists who try to quiet their conscience by telling themselves the issue doesn't involve human life. People will go to great lengths to justify what they think they 'must' believe.
Click to expand...


So true and so sad.  IMHO it is a form of ignorance.  

I believed Truman acted properly, after attending the brainwashing that is our government school system.  But after doing the research and analyzing the history, it is impossible to conclude the bombings were justified or necessary.  It is a war crime of the highest order.  But the blame lays entirely on the shoulder's of a corrupt lying political...as it often does.


----------



## regent

That debate was interesting in that it brought up an historical no, no; the concept of making judgments on the past with today's values. Sort of like we have done, and do, with slavery, beheading non believers, women's rights, democracy, medical care and so on. 
We are told we have, on the ready hydrogen bombs of far greater force than the bombs we dropped on Japan. If we are attacked and the H's are used; fifty years from now will some  question our morality for using those weapons on people? 
Did the debate give evidence that   our values  change over time or was it just another use of history to justify our politics?


----------



## Unkotare

Apologists are fucking shameless. Since liberals are naturally without shame (having been taught they cannot but be 'the good') they are ideally suited for playing the role of apologist, as seen in the preceding post.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> Apologists are fucking shameless. Since liberals are naturally without shame (having been taught they cannot but be 'the good') they are ideally suited for playing the role of apologist, as seen in the preceding post.



You shouldn't try to understand just do your name calling bit and be happy.


----------



## regent

gipper said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
> A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.
> 
> 
> 
> And it's "_sake_," you dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well said.
> 
> For Americans to believe the BIG LIE that 500,000 American troops would have died had we invaded Japan, they must be able to believe the most absurd absurdities.
> 
> Of course the Japanese were a tired and wary nation. Their young men were mostly dead by August '45.  Their cities in ruin.  Thousands of civilians murdered from the air....and yet, they were going to fight the world's greatest military to the last woman and child...with pitch forks.
> 
> How does one believe such tripe?
Click to expand...


That was Herbert Hoover's prediction. The estimates were for various periods of time.


----------



## whitehall

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
> A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.
> 
> 
> 
> And it's "_sake_," you dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Japanese could have ended the war any time. In fact, when the Japanese did decide to end the war, it was over. That simple.
> Where the tired starving old women and prepubescent children came from beats me.
Click to expand...


Truman didn't have a clue so he relied on FDR policies that demanded unconditional surrender. The major issue was executing the Japanese Emperor and ironically the Emperor was preserved after we incinerated two cities crammed with civilians.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Its been a while now but there was a really very touching and educational documentary on the long term effects of the two bombs. 

And, of course, the John Hershey book, Hiroshima.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apologists are fucking shameless. Since liberals are naturally without shame (having been taught they cannot but be 'the good') they are ideally suited for playing the role of apologist, as seen in the preceding post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't try to understand just do your name calling bit and be happy.
Click to expand...



That post was your version of an unconditional surrender.


----------



## Darkwind

Mad Scientist said:


> Mr. Seikitchi Uehara and Mrs. Matsu Uehara shown here with my wife at the nursing home in Okinawa where Grandma spent her last days as the effects of Dementia set in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grandpa was an Engineer who was, believe it or not, too small to serve in The Emperors Army so put his Engineer degree to work designing Aircraft for the Army. He said he helped design a few Kamikaze planes but wouldn't ever elaborate and even though I'm an Airplane Nut, I never pushed the subject. He did say, and I agreed, that it was the F6F Hellcat that turned the tide of the War in the Pacific.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He and his wife were in Hiroshima to attend a work related meeting of sorts. As fate would have it, on August 6th he wasn't feeling so good so he decided to take the day off and stay in their small apartment on the outskirts of Hiroshima.
> 
> That morning Grandma saw the B-29 fly over and witnessed the ensuing mushroom cloud. The next day Grandpa walked into the city and witnessed the devastation first hand. He said it was "Hell on Earth".
> 
> He never complained about anything that happened during the war or the nuclear bombs. He just said "It *had* to happen. Japan was *never* going to give up".
> 
> Both He and his Wife were designated Living National Treasures by the Gov't of Japan and were interviewed numerous times by various agencies and publications over the years. They both lived into their 90's in spite of the radiation effects of the bombing.
> 
> Here we are in the house that he built in Okinawa using Japanese Joinery Techniques where not as single nail was used!


The atomic bomb drops have been talked to death on 9,000 forums....

I have to say though....You have one fine looking wife!

Said in the most respectful manner.


----------



## namvet

and on this day in 45 the B-29 bockscar flattens Nagasaki ending the war


----------



## Penelope

> =Mad Scientist;5758975]



Thanks for sharing your story, nice family.


----------



## whitehall

The years of political control of the media are (almost) over. Now it is time to consider the propaganda that passed for news during the 2nd half of the 20th century. Thanks to the freedoms inherent in the Constitution the radical FDR left didn't get to burn all the history books. The truth is still out there if you have the courage to look for it. The radical Bushido crazies still controlled what was left of Tokyo which was bombed in daylight raids on a regular basis and they weren't so stupid that they had any thought of victory. Harry Truman was a freaking high school educated clothing store owner in Missouri who was elected to the senate and hand picked by democrats to run for VP when the corpse of FDR was running for his 4th term. Why would democrats pick an obscure senator to be president when they knew FDR was dying? Give 'em hell Harry could be counted on to sign the order to use the new toy.


----------



## regent

whitehall said:


> The years of political control of the media are (almost) over. Now it is time to consider the propaganda that passed for news during the 2nd half of the 20th century. Thanks to the freedoms inherent in the Constitution the radical FDR left didn't get to burn all the history books. The truth is still out there if you have the courage to look for it. The radical Bushido crazies still controlled what was left of Tokyo which was bombed in daylight raids on a regular basis and they weren't so stupid that they had any thought of victory. Harry Truman was a freaking high school educated clothing store owner in Missouri who was elected to the senate and hand picked by democrats to run for VP when the corpse of FDR was running for his 4th term. Why would democrats pick an obscure senator to be president when they knew FDR was dying? Give 'em hell Harry could be counted on to sign the order to use the new toy.



A few of our presidents had a limited education, Washington, Lincoln and Truman come to mind. Today, Washington is rated by historians as fourth greatest American president, Lincoln as third, Truman as ninth. Maybe other qualities are as important in the presidency? 
If Truman hadn't dropped the bombs and the invasion and war had  continued how would Truman have been rated at the end of the war and how today?


----------



## Unkotare

He we go again...

Ratings Boy does nothing but cling to a logical fallacy for dear life because he's got nothing else. Like a broken record...


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> He we go again...
> 
> Ratings Boy does nothing but cling to a logical fallacy for dear life because he's got nothing else. Like a broken record...



It is somewhat sad that historians don't agree with you, but take heart they don't agree with a number of posters. It's the earth is round thing.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> He we go again...
> 
> Ratings Boy does nothing but cling to a logical fallacy for dear life because he's got nothing else. Like a broken record...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is somewhat sad that historians don't agree with you,...
Click to expand...




There he goes again...



Someday when you grow up you may develop the ability to think for yourself, though I doubt you'll ever develop the interest.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> He we go again...
> 
> Ratings Boy does nothing but cling to a logical fallacy for dear life because he's got nothing else. Like a broken record...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is somewhat sad that historians don't agree with you,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There he goes again...
> 
> 
> 
> Someday when you grow up you may develop the ability to think for yourself, though I doubt you'll ever develop the interest.
Click to expand...


If thinking for myself means thinking like you, give it up. 
When I have agreeing with me since 1948 noted American historians and presidential experts I'd be a fool not to mention how they agree with my rating of the presidents. Smart cookies one and all. And recently another 238 of America's best historians, a whole new batch, agreed with my ratings of presidents. I also happen to think that America's best historians know more history than both you and I. Well maybe you.


----------



## BillyP

*My Wife's Grandparents Were Hiroshima Survivors*

Were they still able to eat rice?


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is somewhat sad that historians don't agree with you,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There he goes again...
> 
> 
> 
> Someday when you grow up you may develop the ability to think for yourself, though I doubt you'll ever develop the interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If thinking for myself means thinking like you, give it up.
> When I have agreeing with me since 1948 noted American historians and presidential experts I'd be a fool not to mention how they agree with my rating of the presidents. Smart cookies one and all. And recently another 238 of America's best historians, a whole new batch, agreed with my ratings of presidents. I also happen to think that America's best historians know more history than both you and I. Well maybe you.
Click to expand...


Too funny....you believe the establishment statist historians, but think historians that disagree with those you like, are dunces.  

That is most hypocritical.  Why believe some historians and not others?


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is somewhat sad that historians don't agree with you,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There he goes again...
> 
> 
> 
> Someday when you grow up you may develop the ability to think for yourself, though I doubt you'll ever develop the interest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If thinking for myself means thinking like you, give it up.
Click to expand...



There again you demonstrate your aversion to logic.


----------



## GHook93

Thanks for sharing great story. You seem to have a great family!


----------



## regent

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There he goes again...
> 
> 
> 
> Someday when you grow up you may develop the ability to think for yourself, though I doubt you'll ever develop the interest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If thinking for myself means thinking like you, give it up.
> When I have agreeing with me since 1948 noted American historians and presidential experts I'd be a fool not to mention how they agree with my rating of the presidents. Smart cookies one and all. And recently another 238 of America's best historians, a whole new batch, agreed with my ratings of presidents. I also happen to think that America's best historians know more history than both you and I. Well maybe you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Too funny....you believe the establishment statist historians, but think historians that disagree with those you like, are dunces.
> 
> That is most hypocritical.  Why believe some historians and not others?
Click to expand...


I believe there are levels of historians as there are levels of most professionals.  I pefer to  accept the history of those historians  that other historians accept as good historians.  When those top rated historians disagree with me I generally accept their conclusions as valid. But in this situation the top historians agree with me so what could be better? And if some poster disagrees with both me and the better historians, I gotta be honest, I go with the historians.  What's a statist historian?


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> If thinking for myself means thinking like you, give it up.
> When I have agreeing with me since 1948 noted American historians and presidential experts I'd be a fool not to mention how they agree with my rating of the presidents. Smart cookies one and all. And recently another 238 of America's best historians, a whole new batch, agreed with my ratings of presidents. I also happen to think that America's best historians know more history than both you and I. Well maybe you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too funny....you believe the establishment statist historians, but think historians that disagree with those you like, are dunces.
> 
> That is most hypocritical.  Why believe some historians and not others?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe there are levels of historians as there are levels of most professionals.  I pefer to  accept the history of those historians  that other historians accept as good historians.  When those top rated historians disagree with me I generally accept their conclusions as valid. But in this situation the top historians agree with me so what could be better? And if some poster disagrees with both me and the better historians, I gotta be honest, I go with the historians.  What's a statist historian?
Click to expand...


I know many historians who disagree with establishment statist historians...and guess what?  Those historians consider those like them, as 'good historians.'  So, you make no sense.

A statist historian is one who promotes the lies of the state.  For example, historians who write about how Lincoln or FDR are great presidents.


----------



## regent

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too funny....you believe the establishment statist historians, but think historians that disagree with those you like, are dunces.
> 
> That is most hypocritical.  Why believe some historians and not others?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe there are levels of historians as there are levels of most professionals.  I pefer to  accept the history of those historians  that other historians accept as good historians.  When those top rated historians disagree with me I generally accept their conclusions as valid. But in this situation the top historians agree with me so what could be better? And if some poster disagrees with both me and the better historians, I gotta be honest, I go with the historians.  What's a statist historian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know many historians who disagree with establishment statist historians...and guess what?  Those historians consider those like them, as 'good historians.'  So, you make no sense.
> 
> A statist historian is one who promotes the lies of the state.  For example, historians who write about how Lincoln or FDR are great presidents.
Click to expand...


Do most universities offer degrees in statist-history? And what of historians that believe Lincoln was great but not FDR, what do we call them half-statist historians or what? And what of  the citizens that voted for FDR four times-statist-citizens? 
Parson Weems and his histories of George Washington are considered bad history, so how we we classify Weems,  statist-historian or not? A whole new world of history has opened up.


----------



## whitehall

regent said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The years of political control of the media are (almost) over. Now it is time to consider the propaganda that passed for news during the 2nd half of the 20th century. Thanks to the freedoms inherent in the Constitution the radical FDR left didn't get to burn all the history books. The truth is still out there if you have the courage to look for it. The radical Bushido crazies still controlled what was left of Tokyo which was bombed in daylight raids on a regular basis and they weren't so stupid that they had any thought of victory. Harry Truman was a freaking high school educated clothing store owner in Missouri who was elected to the senate and hand picked by democrats to run for VP when the corpse of FDR was running for his 4th term. Why would democrats pick an obscure senator to be president when they knew FDR was dying? Give 'em hell Harry could be counted on to sign the order to use the new toy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few of our presidents had a limited education, Washington, Lincoln and Truman come to mind. Today, Washington is rated by historians as fourth greatest American president, Lincoln as third, Truman as ninth. Maybe other qualities are as important in the presidency?
> If Truman hadn't dropped the bombs and the invasion and war had  continued how would Truman have been rated at the end of the war and how today?
Click to expand...


Washington's education in the 1700's can't be an issue. Lincoln was a freaking lawyer and highly educated for his day in the rural frontier. Harry Truman was a WW1 Veteran and he went home to establish a comfortable business and dabble in politics. Who would have predicted that the little senator from Missouri would become president? He never campaigned for the job. Democrats dumped the current Vice President off the ticket while he was on vacation and hand picked the little clueless bean counter senator while the president was dying. Why would the democrat establishment drop their own Vice President for an unknown rube from Missouri?


----------



## regent

whitehall said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The years of political control of the media are (almost) over. Now it is time to consider the propaganda that passed for news during the 2nd half of the 20th century. Thanks to the freedoms inherent in the Constitution the radical FDR left didn't get to burn all the history books. The truth is still out there if you have the courage to look for it. The radical Bushido crazies still controlled what was left of Tokyo which was bombed in daylight raids on a regular basis and they weren't so stupid that they had any thought of victory. Harry Truman was a freaking high school educated clothing store owner in Missouri who was elected to the senate and hand picked by democrats to run for VP when the corpse of FDR was running for his 4th term. Why would democrats pick an obscure senator to be president when they knew FDR was dying? Give 'em hell Harry could be counted on to sign the order to use the new toy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few of our presidents had a limited education, Washington, Lincoln and Truman come to mind. Today, Washington is rated by historians as fourth greatest American president, Lincoln as third, Truman as ninth. Maybe other qualities are as important in the presidency?
> If Truman hadn't dropped the bombs and the invasion and war had  continued how would Truman have been rated at the end of the war and how today?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Washington's education in the 1700's can't be an issue. Lincoln was a freaking lawyer and highly educated for his day in the rural frontier. Harry Truman was a WW1 Veteran and he went home to establish a comfortable business and dabble in politics. Who would have predicted that the little senator from Missouri would become president? He never campaigned for the job. Democrats dumped the current Vice President off the ticket while he was on vacation and hand picked the little clueless bean counter senator while the president was dying. Why would the democrat establishment drop their own Vice President for an unknown rube from Missouri?
Click to expand...


Why can't Washington's education be an issue? In any case Truman undoubtedly had a better education than Lincoln. Lincoln did study law pretty much on his own, but he never pass a law exam, bar or otherwise. Both Lincoln and Truman took to politics and were on their way. In WWI Truman was a captain, and as Senator Truman headed the Senate committee called the Truman Committee. The committee  was considered  a success. In any case as I indicated Truman was considered an above average president by the historians that rate the presidents. 
Do you consider a college education to be a requirement to be president?


----------



## whitehall

regent said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few of our presidents had a limited education, Washington, Lincoln and Truman come to mind. Today, Washington is rated by historians as fourth greatest American president, Lincoln as third, Truman as ninth. Maybe other qualities are as important in the presidency?
> If Truman hadn't dropped the bombs and the invasion and war had  continued how would Truman have been rated at the end of the war and how today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Washington's education in the 1700's can't be an issue. Lincoln was a freaking lawyer and highly educated for his day in the rural frontier. Harry Truman was a WW1 Veteran and he went home to establish a comfortable business and dabble in politics. Who would have predicted that the little senator from Missouri would become president? He never campaigned for the job. Democrats dumped the current Vice President off the ticket while he was on vacation and hand picked the little clueless bean counter senator while the president was dying. Why would the democrat establishment drop their own Vice President for an unknown rube from Missouri?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why can't Washington's education be an issue? In any case Truman undoubtedly had a better education than Lincoln. Lincoln did study law pretty much on his own, but he never pass a law exam, bar or otherwise. Both Lincoln and Truman took to politics and were on their way. In WWI Truman was a captain, and as Senator Truman headed the Senate committee called the Truman Committee. The committee  was considered  a success. In any case as I indicated Truman was considered an above average president by the historians that rate the presidents.
> Do you consider a college education to be a requirement to be president?
Click to expand...


I consider the lack of a college education in mid 20th century to be a detriment to picking the next president unless the next president didn't have to campaign. Truman proved himself to be an inept leader when he appointed another WW1 Vet to run his executive order that sent Troops to Korea. The liberal media pronounced the abject failure of the Korean adventure to be the "forgotten war" but Korean Vets didn't forget and "give'em hell Harry" couldn't even muster enough votes in his own party to withstand a primary challenge so he dropped out of politics instead of running for his full 2nd term.


----------



## regent

whitehall said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Washington's education in the 1700's can't be an issue. Lincoln was a freaking lawyer and highly educated for his day in the rural frontier. Harry Truman was a WW1 Veteran and he went home to establish a comfortable business and dabble in politics. Who would have predicted that the little senator from Missouri would become president? He never campaigned for the job. Democrats dumped the current Vice President off the ticket while he was on vacation and hand picked the little clueless bean counter senator while the president was dying. Why would the democrat establishment drop their own Vice President for an unknown rube from Missouri?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't Washington's education be an issue? In any case Truman undoubtedly had a better education than Lincoln. Lincoln did study law pretty much on his own, but he never pass a law exam, bar or otherwise. Both Lincoln and Truman took to politics and were on their way. In WWI Truman was a captain, and as Senator Truman headed the Senate committee called the Truman Committee. The committee  was considered  a success. In any case as I indicated Truman was considered an above average president by the historians that rate the presidents.
> Do you consider a college education to be a requirement to be president?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I consider the lack of a college education in mid 20th century to be a detriment to picking the next president unless the next president didn't have to campaign. Truman proved himself to be an inept leader when he appointed another WW1 Vet to run his executive order that sent Troops to Korea. The liberal media pronounced the abject failure of the Korean adventure to be the "forgotten war" but Korean Vets didn't forget and "give'em hell Harry" couldn't even muster enough votes in his own party to withstand a primary challenge so he dropped out of politics instead of running for his full 2nd term.
Click to expand...


Maybe in the next Constitution? But then what degree and what school? And remember the charge that most professors are liberal.


----------



## Picaro

In an era when most people could not afford a college education, not having one isn't a handicap. Many people educated themselves and were well-read, and in many cases were far better read than a lot of college graduates. That is still true today, probably especially so, given the standards of today's education system. Mark Twain was self-educated, as were many others. It wasn't until the Great Society and GI Bill programs that we saw more universities and Jr. Colleges popping up seemingly everywhere, and the ones that already existed greatly expanding their capacities.

Of course, that also means a lot of idiots now get to go to college, and many get educated above their intellectual abilities, even becoming professors, but in the aggregate it's been beneficial, even as it creates a lot of overrated morons; see most 'Journalism', 'Media Studies', and 'Sociology' majors for over-representative examples, also the various La Raza, Womyns Studies types, etc., etc.

Also, many so-called 'Ivy League' schools are over-rated, and don't deserve their reputations, like Harvard, Yale, et al; George W. Bush got into Phillips-Andover, then one or both of the 'Ivy League' schools, this after getting tossed out of a private Christian school in Texas, then denied entrance to UT-Texas. Considering Texas schools are allegedly 'hicksville' and 'sub-standard', what does that say about some of the 'elite' schools, and what kind of graduates they put out? So ... yes, it obviously is going to be tough to prove which schools would be acceptable and whether non-college graduates are 'unqualified' or not. I could name several truck drivers and a couple of plumbers, as well as many others, who are better educated and far more qualified than the last five Presidents. 'Formal' education no longer has the credibility it once had, being too watered down to have much in the way of claiming 'distinctive intellectual achievement' any more, outside of engineering or hard sciences. Even criminal illegal aliens who don't even know the national language can get in a college these days.


----------



## BillyP

Did your grandparents agree to surrendering or were they the fight-till-the-last-man kind of nip?


----------



## Mad Scientist

BillyP said:


> Did your grandparents agree to surrendering or were they the fight-till-the-last-man kind of nip?


Go back and read the first post. Or just print it out and have someone read it to you out loud.


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Did your grandparents agree to surrendering or were they the fight-till-the-last-man kind of nip?




Did you get a thrill out of using a racial epithet like that, you pathetic little punk? What a fucking clown.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did your grandparents agree to surrendering or were they the fight-till-the-last-man kind of nip?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get a thrill out of using a racial epithet like that, you pathetic little punk? What a fucking clown.
Click to expand...


It's called Nippon, so a nip would be like a Yank. Grow the fuck up.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Hey guise I don't mind the *political* discussion surrounding the Bombings, because that's the whole point of this thread really, but can we move the *racial* portion to the Flame Zone or something?

Thanks!


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did your grandparents agree to surrendering or were they the fight-till-the-last-man kind of nip?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get a thrill out of using a racial epithet like that, you pathetic little punk? What a fucking clown.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's called Nippon, so a nip would be like a Yank. Grow the fuck up.
Click to expand...



It has been understood as a racial epithet for at least 60 years. Stop trying to be 'cute,' you no-class POS. "Grow the fuck up" indeed.


----------



## indiajo

mal said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> My oldest son was surprised to learn of the Rape of Nanking:
> 
> "Dad, did this really happen? Are these *real* pictures?".
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad that Americans don't gloss over the bad things that we've done. Pretty shameful to do so, imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What comparible thing have we done in an official manner as Nanking or what the Nazis or Stalin did that we would even have to gloss over?...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...
Click to expand...


You don't want me to list that up.


----------



## Coyote

*Personal Flame Fests belong in the Flame Zone.  Let's get back to a discussion of history since this is, after all in History...*


----------



## BillyP

Well, I for one think it was ok to nuke Japan. We just stopped too soon.


----------



## gipper

BillyP said:


> Well, I for one think it was ok to nuke Japan. We just stopped too soon.



Are you suggesting that the US gov should have dropped more a-bombs on Japan to exterminate the entire population?  If so, you are a complete idiot...and you are also an idiot to think the bombs were ok....dunce....they were entirely unnecessary, as Japan was already defeated and defenseless...and ready to surrender before the war criminal Truman dropped those two horrific bombs. 

What the American gov did in WWII is exactly the same thing as what the Germans and Japanese did with WWII.  Atrocities abound...in total war...yet we Americans like to think we are different...we are, but our leaders are not.


----------



## namvet

gipper said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one think it was ok to nuke Japan. We just stopped too soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that the US gov should have dropped more a-bombs on Japan to exterminate the entire population?  If so, you are a complete idiot...and you are also an idiot to think the bombs were ok....dunce....they were entirely unnecessary, as Japan was already defeated and defenseless...and ready to surrender before the war criminal Truman dropped those two horrific bombs.
> 
> What the American gov did in WWII is exactly the same thing as what the Germans and Japanese did with WWII.  Atrocities abound...in total war...yet we Americans like to think we are different...we are, but our leaders are not.
Click to expand...


if the Japs didn't surrender yes. we were prepared to nuke em in the dark till they glowed.


----------



## gipper

namvet said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one think it was ok to nuke Japan. We just stopped too soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that the US gov should have dropped more a-bombs on Japan to exterminate the entire population?  If so, you are a complete idiot...and you are also an idiot to think the bombs were ok....dunce....they were entirely unnecessary, as Japan was already defeated and defenseless...and ready to surrender before the war criminal Truman dropped those two horrific bombs.
> 
> What the American gov did in WWII is exactly the same thing as what the Germans and Japanese did with WWII.  Atrocities abound...in total war...yet we Americans like to think we are different...we are, but our leaders are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if the Japs didn't surrender yes. we were prepared to nuke em in the dark till they glowed.
Click to expand...


If only you knew how disgusting you are.


----------



## asterism

Ravi said:


> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.



Very true.  I lived in Tokyo as a toddler and our family kept in touch with some of the neighbors over the years.  I get together with a few of the old neighbors' kids and grandkids when they visit Disney.  We've had quite a few spirited conversations around the fire pit about their perception of "American Imperialism" and how the US forces Japan to stay weak because they don't want to make China and Korea mad.  

Everyone under 50 says they don't believe that Japan would never surrender in WWII, they think Japan was just defending themselves against the US conquering the Pacific, and they deny the alliance with Nazi Germany.  I asked them if they've talked to their parents and grandparents about this and the answer is universal:  "they don't talk about the war."

The younger ones have a sort of entitled attitude about honor and dignity claiming to be descendants of the Samurai warriors.  They don't understand that the discipline was brought through training and not birthright.  They don't have any history of the atrocities practiced by the Samurai (the reason for disbanding them in the first place).  They deny that Japan ever had slaves in modern times, especially every Korean they could find during WWII.


----------



## namvet

gipper said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that the US gov should have dropped more a-bombs on Japan to exterminate the entire population?  If so, you are a complete idiot...and you are also an idiot to think the bombs were ok....dunce....they were entirely unnecessary, as Japan was already defeated and defenseless...and ready to surrender before the war criminal Truman dropped those two horrific bombs.
> 
> What the American gov did in WWII is exactly the same thing as what the Germans and Japanese did with WWII.  Atrocities abound...in total war...yet we Americans like to think we are different...we are, but our leaders are not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if the Japs didn't surrender yes. we were prepared to nuke em in the dark till they glowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If only you knew how disgusting you are.
Click to expand...


and how historically up fucked you are


----------



## BillyP

gipper said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one think it was ok to nuke Japan. We just stopped too soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that the US gov should have dropped more a-bombs on Japan to exterminate the entire population?  If so, you are a complete idiot...and you are also an idiot to think the bombs were ok....dunce....they were entirely unnecessary, as Japan was already defeated and defenseless...and ready to surrender before the war criminal Truman dropped those two horrific bombs.
> 
> What the American gov did in WWII is exactly the same thing as what the Germans and Japanese did with WWII.  Atrocities abound...in total war...yet we Americans like to think we are different...we are, but our leaders are not.
Click to expand...

I never said exterminate the entire population, just most of it. 

To teach the world not to fuck with us. Like after 9/11, we should have nuked Mecca at least! Kabul, Riyadh, the West Bank and gaza... Iraq!!!


----------



## Unkotare

namvet said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I for one think it was ok to nuke Japan. We just stopped too soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that the US gov should have dropped more a-bombs on Japan to exterminate the entire population?  If so, you are a complete idiot...and you are also an idiot to think the bombs were ok....dunce....they were entirely unnecessary, as Japan was already defeated and defenseless...and ready to surrender before the war criminal Truman dropped those two horrific bombs.
> 
> What the American gov did in WWII is exactly the same thing as what the Germans and Japanese did with WWII.  Atrocities abound...in total war...yet we Americans like to think we are different...we are, but our leaders are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if the Japs [sic] didn't surrender yes. we were prepared to nuke em in the dark till they glowed.
Click to expand...



No "we" weren't. After the second atomic bomb was dropped we had 0 atomic bombs ready to go. A few weeks later maybe, but there was no mass production of more atomic bombs that would support your self-indulgent histrionics.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true.  I lived in Tokyo as a toddler and our family kept in touch with some of the neighbors over the years.  I get together with a few of the old neighbors' kids and grandkids when they visit Disney.  We've had quite a few spirited conversations around the fire pit about their perception of "American Imperialism" and how the US forces Japan to stay weak because they don't want to make China and Korea mad.
> 
> Everyone under 50 says they don't believe that Japan would never surrender in WWII, they think Japan was just defending themselves against the US conquering the Pacific, and they deny the alliance with Nazi Germany.  I asked them if they've talked to their parents and grandparents about this and the answer is universal:  "they don't talk about the war."
> 
> The younger ones have a sort of entitled attitude about honor and dignity claiming to be descendants of the Samurai warriors.  They don't understand that the discipline was brought through training and not birthright.  They don't have any history of the atrocities practiced by the Samurai (the reason for disbanding them in the first place).  They deny that Japan ever had slaves in modern times, especially every Korean they could find during WWII.
Click to expand...



That post was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.


----------



## Unkotare

Ravi said:


> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school ...





You heard wrong.


----------



## Unkotare

whitehall said:


> It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.



the Special Exhibit


----------



## namvet

gipper said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really now?
> 
> The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed.  A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children.  As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
> 
> Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur.  But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).
> 
> It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war.  The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not accurate.  Many generals including Ike and MacArthur told Truman not to drop the bombs.  Others in his administration voiced negative opinions...knowing full well Japan was defenseless.  Truman was solely responsible for the war crime.
> 
> Truman dropped them because he wanted to control Stalin and show the world our power.  But also, he was a terrible racist who hated the Japanese...thinking them less than human.  Most ironic considering he claimed to be a devout Christian.
Click to expand...


since you were born stupid Ike had no combat experience. MacArthur wanted the guts and glory of an invasion that would cost millions of lives.  the so called "others" had no combat experience either. Truman seeked out every opinion he could get. the sinking of the Indy and the Kamikaze attacks off Okinawa sealed Japan's fate. they were far from finished. 

you pacifist idiots are all the same. so keep your head stuck up your ass where it belongs


----------



## namvet

Ravi said:


> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.



don't know how they could avoid it. there's war memorials all over the empire. including of course Hiroshima and Nagasaki


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true.  I lived in Tokyo as a toddler and our family kept in touch with some of the neighbors over the years.  I get together with a few of the old neighbors' kids and grandkids when they visit Disney.  We've had quite a few spirited conversations around the fire pit about their perception of "American Imperialism" and how the US forces Japan to stay weak because they don't want to make China and Korea mad.
> 
> Everyone under 50 says they don't believe that Japan would never surrender in WWII, they think Japan was just defending themselves against the US conquering the Pacific, and they deny the alliance with Nazi Germany.  I asked them if they've talked to their parents and grandparents about this and the answer is universal:  "they don't talk about the war."
> 
> The younger ones have a sort of entitled attitude about honor and dignity claiming to be descendants of the Samurai warriors.  They don't understand that the discipline was brought through training and not birthright.  They don't have any history of the atrocities practiced by the Samurai (the reason for disbanding them in the first place).  They deny that Japan ever had slaves in modern times, especially every Korean they could find during WWII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That post was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.
Click to expand...


No, but I understand that you don't like certain people and you have a very closed mind.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very true.  I lived in Tokyo as a toddler and our family kept in touch with some of the neighbors over the years.  I get together with a few of the old neighbors' kids and grandkids when they visit Disney.  We've had quite a few spirited conversations around the fire pit about their perception of "American Imperialism" and how the US forces Japan to stay weak because they don't want to make China and Korea mad.
> 
> Everyone under 50 says they don't believe that Japan would never surrender in WWII, they think Japan was just defending themselves against the US conquering the Pacific, and they deny the alliance with Nazi Germany.  I asked them if they've talked to their parents and grandparents about this and the answer is universal:  "they don't talk about the war."
> 
> The younger ones have a sort of entitled attitude about honor and dignity claiming to be descendants of the Samurai warriors.  They don't understand that the discipline was brought through training and not birthright.  They don't have any history of the atrocities practiced by the Samurai (the reason for disbanding them in the first place).  They deny that Japan ever had slaves in modern times, especially every Korean they could find during WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That post was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but I understand that you don't like certain people and you have a very closed mind.
Click to expand...


NO, that post really was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That post was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but I understand that you don't like certain people and you have a very closed mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO, that post really was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.
Click to expand...


I love how you think you are an authority on my life's experiences.

It's common to encounter people who say the same thing about Japan's WWII education.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100225163311AAzJXkC


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, but I understand that you don't like certain people and you have a very closed mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, that post really was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love how you think you are an authority on my life's experiences.
Click to expand...



I know nonsense when I read it. You were just making shit up there.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> The younger ones have a sort of entitled attitude about honor and dignity claiming to be descendants of the Samurai warriors.






No they don't. That is silly beyond words. Most young people today don't know anything about Samurai they didn't see on a TV drama. I have spoken with thousands and thousands of young people from and in Japan; I do almost every day. Most young people today don't know and aren't particularly interested in things like that. You just completely made that shit up.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> They don't understand that the discipline was brought through training and not birthright.




You've got that completely wrong. Being a member of the Samurai class was a matter of birthright during most of Japanese history.


A farmer could train his ass off 24/7, but that wouldn't make him a Samurai.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> They don't have any history of the atrocities practiced by the Samurai (the reason for disbanding them in the first place).





The samurai class was not abolished because of "atrocities." Not even close. The samurai class was abolished in order to protect the new civil government that was established during the Meiji Restoration.


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO, that post really was one big, fat pile of fabrication and falsehood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love how you think you are an authority on my life's experiences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I know nonsense when I read it. You were just making shit up there.
Click to expand...


You are delusional.  Keep it up, it's good entertainment.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Could you guys take it to the Rubber Room or something? Thanks.


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> The younger ones have a sort of entitled attitude about honor and dignity claiming to be descendants of the Samurai warriors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they don't. That is silly beyond words. Most young people today don't know anything about Samurai they didn't see on a TV drama. I have spoken with thousands and thousands of young people from and in Japan; I do almost every day. Most young people today don't know and aren't particularly interested in things like that. You just completely made that shit up.
Click to expand...


I notice that any time I post something that differs from your own stated observations you are quick to accuse me of lying.

Maybe you don't know everything, ever given that a thought?  Have you ever met someone who claims to be descended from Samurai warriors?


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't understand that the discipline was brought through training and not birthright.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got that completely wrong. Being a member of the Samurai class was a matter of birthright during most of Japanese history.
> 
> 
> A farmer could train his ass off 24/7, but that wouldn't make him a Samurai.
Click to expand...


But the discipline didn't come from being born into the correct bloodline, that had to be proven after years of training, dipshit.

You are as dense as a lump of coal.


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't have any history of the atrocities practiced by the Samurai (the reason for disbanding them in the first place).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The samurai class was not abolished because of "atrocities." Not even close. The samurai class was abolished in order to protect the new civil government that was established during the Meiji Restoration.
Click to expand...


That's your opinion.  There are other opinions, you know.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> It's common to encounter people who say the same thing about Japan's WWII education.
> 
> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100225163311AAzJXkC





'Yahooanswers' Wow, how authoritative. 

If you ever become interested in some real scholarship, go here: ERIC - How World War II Is Taught in Japanese Classrooms., International Journal of Social Education, 1995 and order a copy of 'How WWII is Taught in Japanese Classrooms' to start with.


----------



## asterism

Mad Scientist said:


> Could you guys take it to the Rubber Room or something? Thanks.



Sorry.


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's common to encounter people who say the same thing about Japan's WWII education.
> 
> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100225163311AAzJXkC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Yahooanswers' Wow, how authoritative.
> 
> If you ever become interested in some real scholarship, go here: ERIC - How World War II Is Taught in Japanese Classrooms., International Journal of Social Education, 1995 and order a copy of 'How WWII is Taught in Japanese Classrooms' to start with.
Click to expand...


When people relate personal experiences that differ from the official record it's relevant.  Only in your "I'm the authority and I know when people are lying" disturbed psyche is there ever actually an absolute truth.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't have any history of the atrocities practiced by the Samurai (the reason for disbanding them in the first place).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The samurai class was not abolished because of "atrocities." Not even close. The samurai class was abolished in order to protect the new civil government that was established during the Meiji Restoration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.  There are other opinions, you know.
Click to expand...



It's not a matter of opinion, fool, it's a matter of historical fact. The Tokugawa Shogunate had grown too weak to hold onto power any longer in the face of pressures brought to bear in response to the threat of foreign encroachment as exemplified by Perry's Black Ships. Various factions vied for power as it became clear that the Shogunate's grip on the country was slipping. Tokugawa's ultimate defeat in the Boshin War is what led to the establishment of a new civil government. In this new system, there was no room for a Samurai class that would only have presented an on-going threat to the new government. That is why the class was abolished.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's common to encounter people who say the same thing about Japan's WWII education.
> 
> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100225163311AAzJXkC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Yahooanswers' Wow, how authoritative.
> 
> If you ever become interested in some real scholarship, go here: ERIC - How World War II Is Taught in Japanese Classrooms., International Journal of Social Education, 1995 and order a copy of 'How WWII is Taught in Japanese Classrooms' to start with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When people relate personal experiences that differ from the official record it's relevant.  Only in your "I'm the authority and I know when people are lying" disturbed psyche is there ever actually an absolute truth.
Click to expand...




That was a very weak attempt at diversion.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't understand that the discipline was brought through training and not birthright.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got that completely wrong. Being a member of the Samurai class was a matter of birthright during most of Japanese history.
> 
> 
> A farmer could train his ass off 24/7, but that wouldn't make him a Samurai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But the discipline didn't come from being born into the correct bloodline, that had to be proven after years of training, dipshit.
Click to expand...



There were those holding the status of 'Samurai' who could probably wield a sword not much better than you can. They were accountants, stock-keepers, etc. working in a Daimyo's castle and surrounding offices.


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Have you ever met someone who claims to be descended from Samurai warriors?





As a matter of fact, I am well acquainted with several people who are definitively descended from well-known Samurai. Why do you ask?


----------



## Pennywise

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever met someone who claims to be descended from Samurai warriors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, I am well acquainted with several people who are definitively descended from well-known Samurai. Why do you ask?
Click to expand...


Prove it.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever met someone who claims to be descended from Samurai warriors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, I am well acquainted with several people who are definitively descended from well-known Samurai. Why do you ask?
Click to expand...


They're descended from swords?


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever met someone who claims to be descended from Samurai warriors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, I am well acquainted with several people who are definitively descended from well-known Samurai. Why do you ask?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're descended from swords?
Click to expand...




Um, no......


???


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, I am well acquainted with several people who are definitively descended from well-known Samurai. Why do you ask?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're descended from swords?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, no......
> 
> ???
Click to expand...

Isn't a Samurai a sword?


----------



## Unkotare

BillyP said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're descended from swords?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no......
> 
> ???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Isn't a Samurai a sword?
Click to expand...




Um, no......


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever met someone who claims to be descended from Samurai warriors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, I am well acquainted with several people who are definitively descended from well-known Samurai. Why do you ask?
Click to expand...


I think you just made that up, you've never met anyone "definitively descended" from any Samurai.

See how easy that was?  All it takes is typing into a box to refute you on your own logic.


----------



## asterism

Unkotare said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The samurai class was not abolished because of "atrocities." Not even close. The samurai class was abolished in order to protect the new civil government that was established during the Meiji Restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.  There are other opinions, you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of opinion, fool, it's a matter of historical fact. The Tokugawa Shogunate had grown too weak to hold onto power any longer in the face of pressures brought to bear in response to the threat of foreign encroachment as exemplified by Perry's Black Ships. Various factions vied for power as it became clear that the Shogunate's grip on the country was slipping. Tokugawa's ultimate defeat in the Boshin War is what led to the establishment of a new civil government. In this new system, there was no room for a Samurai class that would only have presented an on-going threat to the new government. That is why the class was abolished.
Click to expand...


On what basis were they viewed as a threat, numbnuts?


----------



## gipper

namvet said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not accurate.  Many generals including Ike and MacArthur told Truman not to drop the bombs.  Others in his administration voiced negative opinions...knowing full well Japan was defenseless.  Truman was solely responsible for the war crime.
> 
> Truman dropped them because he wanted to control Stalin and show the world our power.  But also, he was a terrible racist who hated the Japanese...thinking them less than human.  Most ironic considering he claimed to be a devout Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> since you were born stupid Ike had no combat experience. MacArthur wanted the guts and glory of an invasion that would cost millions of lives.  the so called "others" had no combat experience either. Truman seeked out every opinion he could get. the sinking of the Indy and the Kamikaze attacks off Okinawa sealed Japan's fate. they were far from finished.
> 
> you pacifist idiots are all the same. so keep your head stuck up your ass where it belongs
Click to expand...


I am not a pacifist.  To think one is a pacifist for KNOWING Truman's actions was a war crime, is just dumb....try to THINK.  Unlike you, I do not think our government and military should murder defenseless civilians by the thousands.  You have much in common with Hitler and Stalin.

Your reason for denigrating Ike and MacArthur for disagreeing with the use of the bomb, is dumb.  And if you knew anything about history, you would know numerous officals in military, government, and others disagreed with the dropping of the bombs.


----------



## BillyP

Unkotare said:


> BillyP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no......
> 
> ???
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't a Samurai a sword?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, no......
Click to expand...


It's a sword, and the person who wields it is called the guy with the Samurai sword.


----------



## namvet

gipper said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not accurate.  Many generals including Ike and MacArthur told Truman not to drop the bombs.  Others in his administration voiced negative opinions...knowing full well Japan was defenseless.  Truman was solely responsible for the war crime.
> 
> Truman dropped them because he wanted to control Stalin and show the world our power.  But also, he was a terrible racist who hated the Japanese...thinking them less than human.  Most ironic considering he claimed to be a devout Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since you were born stupid Ike had no combat experience. MacArthur wanted the guts and glory of an invasion that would cost millions of lives.  the so called "others" had no combat experience either. Truman seeked out every opinion he could get. the sinking of the Indy and the Kamikaze attacks off Okinawa sealed Japan's fate. they were far from finished.
> 
> you pacifist idiots are all the same. so keep your head stuck up your ass where it belongs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not a pacifist.  To think one is a pacifist for KNOWING Truman's actions was a war crime, is just dumb....try to THINK.  Unlike you, I do not think our government and military should murder defenseless civilians by the thousands.  You have much in common with Hitler and Stalin.
> 
> Your reason for denigrating Ike and MacArthur for disagreeing with the use of the bomb, is dumb.  And if you knew anything about history, you would know numerous officals in military, government, and others disagreed with the dropping of the bombs.
Click to expand...


click !! this is a recording. your stuck on stupid. YES you are pacifist. that's a fact. a box a rocks is smarter than you. or you were born yesterday ??? 
*I defy you to prove any of it.* right here and now. let's have something other than your distorted view of history. opinions are aholes. everybody got one. 

hey bozo. ever hear of something called the military?? no?? its not really my job to educate the less learned on here like you. but the IJA was starving civilians to death. they needed food to keep fighting. these so called civilians your in love with were slaves. slave's to the military and emperor. they bowed and did what they were told to. 



> Food shortages had begun to appear in some parts of the country even before Pearl Harbor.  A majority of the Japanese already were malnourished at the time of surrender.  In 1944, officials in Osaka prefecture estimated that 46% of all economic crimes in their jurisdiction involved food.  Hunger was compounded by a disastrous harvest (1945 was the worst since 1910, a shortfall of almost 40% from normal yield) and exacerbated by the confusion, corruption, and ineptitude of the postsurrender elites.  Food shipments from the U.S. helped avert the anticipated disaster of as many as 10 million Japanese starving to death through the fall and winter, and, in the process, enhanced the image of the U.S. as a generous benefactor. [90, 93]
> 
> Despite the efforts of the occupation authorities and the government, the collection and distribution of even the most basic foodstuffs remained chaotic for years



link

who saved these starving people??? its ok. everyone but you knows 



> Truman's actions was a war crime]



if so why was he not convicted ?? in war time you use your best weapon. use it or lose it. Truman got a ton of input from veterans who were over there and saw the carnage. 
ya see if he let's the invasion go forward and millions of Americans die without using the bomb there's hell to pay. when greiving Americans find out he could have saved them with the bomb they'll want him impeached and hung. do you know what an American is?? didn't think so. and I expect this to go in one eye and out the other since your a pacifist.

truman and bomb link

this if really for the benefit of others here. not you

oh dear. was Japan building its own Abomb??? pray tell who would they use it on??

Japan's A-Bomb project link




> You have much in common with Hitler and Stalin.



funny how i fought against both these systems. which are now installed in your current regeime

im finished with you


----------



## Unkotare

asterism said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.  There are other opinions, you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of opinion, fool, it's a matter of historical fact. The Tokugawa Shogunate had grown too weak to hold onto power any longer in the face of pressures brought to bear in response to the threat of foreign encroachment as exemplified by Perry's Black Ships. Various factions vied for power as it became clear that the Shogunate's grip on the country was slipping. Tokugawa's ultimate defeat in the Boshin War is what led to the establishment of a new civil government. In this new system, there was no room for a Samurai class that would only have presented an on-going threat to the new government. That is why the class was abolished.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On what basis were they viewed as a threat, numbnuts?
Click to expand...




The basis that many had already taken up arms against the civil government, and that if allowed to continue they would represent a separate military force outside the civil government within the country. 

Is this really so hard to understand?


----------



## Unkotare

namvet said:


> oh dear. was Japan building its own Abomb??? pray tell who would they use it on??





Considering they weren't terribly close to completing one, nobody. Move the timetable up a little and at most they would have been in a position to use it for the same reason Truman really did: to send a message to the Soviets. Given the state of their air force, even managing to drop one on Soviet territory just across from Sakhalin would have been unlikely in the extreme.


----------



## Camp

The Historical Society, Boston University


http://japanfocus.org/site/view/2501

Kind of impossible to have a genuine discussion on this topic without knowledge of Hasegawa's work. These links provide some insight and the basics. Short reads, but sufficient enough to give you the general thesis.


----------



## whitehall

Any "Truman bomb link" is propaganda designed to cover Truman's ass. Japan was a defeated nation and was desperately trying to negotiate surrender terms with the only US ally who would listen. Unfortunately it was Stalin. Why wouldn't Truman even talk to the government before he authorized two cities to be nuked?


----------



## Mad Scientist

Bump!


----------



## strollingbones

what inhumanity....


----------



## Art__Allm

gipper said:


> The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed.  A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children.  As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
> ...
> 
> It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war.  The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.



Good post.

Killing of innocent children is a war crime.

If somebody justifies or rationalises the killing of children, then he is a hater and a supremacists.

If there was a really independent international court after WWII, then Truman, Churchill and Stalin, and also their predecessors and the people who manipulated the GB and USA into unnecessary World Wars (wars are always good for banksters) would have been sued like other war criminals.

These wars were not in the interest of the majority of Brits, who lost their Empire, and today USA is going down the drain because of the influence of the Military -Industrial - Complex, that was built during the WWI and WWII by the financial elite of the USA.

Pat Buchanan has written a very good book about the demise of the USA and the West, which is due to this events.

And Churchill even admitted after WWII in his Fulton Speech in 1946, that it was very easy to prevent WWII. 

If the elite of GB and USA wanted to prevent WWII, there would be no war, no millions of dead Europeans, and the West would still be the leading power in the world.

Amazon.com Churchill Hitler and The Unnecessary War How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World 9780307405166 Patrick J. Buchanan Books


----------



## namvet

as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here


----------



## gipper

namvet said:


> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here


Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.  

A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.


----------



## namvet

gipper said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.
> 
> A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.
Click to expand...


junior they were fighting wars long before you were born. and they'll be fighting wars long after you and and everyone alive on this earth is dead and long gone. deal with it. you have no choice


----------



## gipper

namvet said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.
> 
> A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> junior they were fighting wars long before you were born. and they'll be fighting wars long after you and and everyone alive on this earth is dead and long gone. deal with it. you have no choice
Click to expand...

Yeah...war is something we humans seem to love, but only because many like you are duped into fighting wars for the power elite.  You are the cannon fodder the power elite greatly appreciate.


----------



## namvet

gipper said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.
> 
> A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> junior they were fighting wars long before you were born. and they'll be fighting wars long after you and and everyone alive on this earth is dead and long gone. deal with it. you have no choice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah...war is something we humans seem to love, but only because many like you are duped into fighting wars for the power elite.  You are the cannon fodder the power elite greatly appreciate.
Click to expand...


well somebody has to keep you cowards and pussys safe


----------



## gipper

namvet said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.
> 
> A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> junior they were fighting wars long before you were born. and they'll be fighting wars long after you and and everyone alive on this earth is dead and long gone. deal with it. you have no choice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah...war is something we humans seem to love, but only because many like you are duped into fighting wars for the power elite.  You are the cannon fodder the power elite greatly appreciate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well somebody has to keep you cowards and pussys safe
Click to expand...

Safe?  Really?  Killing innocents keeps us safe...I think not.


----------



## namvet

gipper said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.
> 
> A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> junior they were fighting wars long before you were born. and they'll be fighting wars long after you and and everyone alive on this earth is dead and long gone. deal with it. you have no choice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah...war is something we humans seem to love, but only because many like you are duped into fighting wars for the power elite.  You are the cannon fodder the power elite greatly appreciate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well somebody has to keep you cowards and pussys safe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Safe?  Really?  Killing innocents keeps us safe...I think not.
Click to expand...


 your an idiot. a box a rocks has a higher IQ than you kid. you don't shit from shinola about the real world. so just stay under your momma's skirt.


----------



## Unkotare

namvet said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.
> 
> A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> junior they were fighting wars long before you were born. and they'll be fighting wars long after you and and everyone alive on this earth is dead and long gone. deal with it. you have no choice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah...war is something we humans seem to love, but only because many like you are duped into fighting wars for the power elite.  You are the cannon fodder the power elite greatly appreciate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well somebody has to keep you cowards and pussys safe
Click to expand...



The both of you are sides of a coin.


----------



## bodecea

Ravi said:


> I heard this morning that the Japanese don't even teach what happened in WW2 in school so most of their citizens don't know what atrocities they committed.


Well, that's not surprising....there are those in this country who don't want the same.   Southern states would fire teachers who didn't go along with the "Lost Cause" story of the Civil War.


----------



## gipper

Unkotare said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...we shouldn't judge the actions of corrupt lying politicians in war time, after the fact.
> 
> A nice way of letting them off the hook, so they can do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> junior they were fighting wars long before you were born. and they'll be fighting wars long after you and and everyone alive on this earth is dead and long gone. deal with it. you have no choice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah...war is something we humans seem to love, but only because many like you are duped into fighting wars for the power elite.  You are the cannon fodder the power elite greatly appreciate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well somebody has to keep you cowards and pussys safe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The both of you are sides of a coin.
Click to expand...

Yep...like war and peace.


----------



## Mad Scientist

bump


----------



## Unkotare

gipper said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really now?
> 
> The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed.  A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children.  As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
> 
> Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur.  But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).
> 
> It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war.  The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not accurate.  Many generals including Ike and MacArthur told Truman not to drop the bombs.  Others in his administration voiced negative opinions...knowing full well Japan was defenseless.  Truman was solely responsible for the war crime.
> 
> Truman dropped them because he wanted to control Stalin and show the world our power.  But also, he was a terrible racist who hated the Japanese...thinking them less than human.  Most ironic considering he claimed to be a devout Christian.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## harmonica

Mad Scientist said:


> Mr. Seikitchi Uehara and Mrs. Matsu Uehara shown here with my wife at the nursing home in Okinawa where Grandma spent her last days as the effects of Dementia set in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grandpa was an Engineer who was, believe it or not, too small to serve in The Emperors Army so put his Engineer degree to work designing Aircraft for the Army. He said he helped design a few Kamikaze planes but wouldn't ever elaborate and even though I'm an Airplane Nut, I never pushed the subject. He did say, and I agreed, that it was the F6F Hellcat that turned the tide of the War in the Pacific.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He and his wife were in Hiroshima to attend a work related meeting of sorts. As fate would have it, on August 6th he wasn't feeling so good so he decided to take the day off and stay in their small apartment on the outskirts of Hiroshima.
> 
> That morning Grandma saw the B-29 fly over and witnessed the ensuing mushroom cloud. The next day Grandpa walked into the city and witnessed the devastation first hand. He said it was "Hell on Earth".
> 
> He never complained about anything that happened during the war or the nuclear bombs. He just said "It *had* to happen. Japan was *never* going to give up".
> 
> Both He and his Wife were designated Living National Treasures by the Gov't of Japan and were interviewed numerous times by various agencies and publications over the years. They both lived into their 90's in spite of the radiation effects of the bombing.
> 
> Here we are in the house that he built in Okinawa using Japanese Joinery Techniques where not as single nail was used!


the F6F was not around during the Coral Sea and Midway battles
and after those battles, not around during the critical battle of Guadalcanal
NO--the F6F did not turn the tide of the war --jesus christ--that's ridiculous


----------



## harmonica

Unkotare said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki  radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really now?
> 
> The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed.  A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children.  As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
> 
> Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur.  But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).
> 
> It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war.  The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not accurate.  Many generals including Ike and MacArthur told Truman not to drop the bombs.  Others in his administration voiced negative opinions...knowing full well Japan was defenseless.  Truman was solely responsible for the war crime.
> 
> Truman dropped them because he wanted to control Stalin and show the world our power.  But also, he was a terrible racist who hated the Japanese...thinking them less than human.  Most ironic considering he claimed to be a devout Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...

now Truman is a racist for trying to end the war the JAPANESE started??

EVERYONE is RACIST 
racist here racist there


----------



## regent

I'm sure most people have seen pictures of VJ day taken in America when the Japanese surrendered. The American people look very guilty in those pictures and were probably asking how could Truman have done that to those innocent Japanese?


----------



## Unkotare

More illogic.  ^^^^^^


----------



## regent

Do Americans that did not have to invade Japan consider themselves Hiroshima survivors?


----------



## anynameyouwish

regent said:


> I'm sure most people have seen pictures of VJ day taken in America when the Japanese surrendered. The American people look very guilty in those pictures and were probably asking how could Truman have done that to those innocent Japanese?




I'm surprised you haven't attacked the US for STARTING the war by FORCING the poor japanese to attack Pearl Harbor.

Now, please, tell, me how much sympathy you have for all those dead Americans from that sneak attack.

or for all the millions of people brutally murdered, imprisoned, enslaved, raped by the japanese military DURING the war.

And how much sympathy would you have for the MILLIONS of people butchered, slaughtered, raped, imprisoned if Japan had WON the war?


----------



## Unkotare

anynameyouwish said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure most people have seen pictures of VJ day taken in America when the Japanese surrendered. The American people look very guilty in those pictures and were probably asking how could Truman have done that to those innocent Japanese?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised you haven't attacked the US for STARTING the war by FORCING the poor japanese to attack Pearl Harbor.
> 
> Now, please, tell, me how much sympathy you have for all those dead Americans from that sneak attack.
> 
> or for all the millions of people brutally murdered, imprisoned, enslaved, raped by the japanese military DURING the war.
> 
> And how much sympathy would you have for the MILLIONS of people butchered, slaughtered, raped, imprisoned if Japan had WON the war?
Click to expand...




Sounds like someone feels guilty about something...


----------



## regent

Just realized that since the bombs were in fact dropped by 
Truman  all those GI's that were to make the invasion were  Hiroshima
survivors. Thank you Harry.


----------



## Picaro

Unkotare said:


> anynameyouwish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure most people have seen pictures of VJ day taken in America when the Japanese surrendered. The American people look very guilty in those pictures and were probably asking how could Truman have done that to those innocent Japanese?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised you haven't attacked the US for STARTING the war by FORCING the poor japanese to attack Pearl Harbor.
> 
> Now, please, tell, me how much sympathy you have for all those dead Americans from that sneak attack.
> 
> or for all the millions of people brutally murdered, imprisoned, enslaved, raped by the japanese military DURING the war.
> 
> And how much sympathy would you have for the MILLIONS of people butchered, slaughtered, raped, imprisoned if Japan had WON the war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like someone feels guilty about something...
Click to expand...


Yes, you do sound like you feel guilty about something, probably about how you're just a shill for some stupid propaganda meme nobody cares about except FDR bashers who drink a lot.


----------



## Picaro

namvet said:


> as usual a lot of Monday morning QB's here



Just tards attempting to smear FDR and Democrats, using ridiculous crap they got from reading Ann Coulter's rubbish while drunk. Apparently they think the legitimate criticisms don't go far enough, or they're just trolls.


----------



## Unkotare

Brainless idol worshippers talk themselves into justifying any outrage.


----------



## regent

regent said:


> I'm sure most people have seen pictures of VJ day taken in America when the Japanese surrendered. The American people look very guilty in those pictures and were probably asking how could Truman have done that to those innocent Japanese?





anynameyouwish said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure most people have seen pictures of VJ day taken in America when the Japanese surrendered. The American people look very guilty in those pictures and were probably asking how could Truman have done that to those innocent Japanese?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised you haven't attacked the US for STARTING the war by FORCING the poor japanese to attack Pearl Harbor.
> 
> Now, please, tell, me how much sympathy you have for all those dead Americans from that sneak attack.
> 
> or for all the millions of people brutally murdered, imprisoned, enslaved, raped by the japanese military DURING the war.
> 
> And how much sympathy would you have for the MILLIONS of people butchered, slaughtered, raped, imprisoned if Japan had WON the war?
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. Most people today may not have seen the newspaper pictures of VJ day, A happier America may never have existed.


----------

